# An Idiot's guide to recumbents?



## seraphina (8 Aug 2015)

(Apologies to the forum for a several year absence; reality had a nasty habit of getting in the way....)

I am coming into a small windfall in the near future, and barring unfortunate events happening to the house, it is currently earmarked to purchase something Fun. My thoughts have turned towards a recumbent; I am already in possession of a road bike and a more sensible Jack-of-all-trades, but have hankered after a recumbent for a while.

That said, I am at a loss as to where to start. My knowledge of recumbents is limited to thinking they look like fun. I know virtually nothing else - manufacturers, how they ride, how to set one up, what to look for etc. I would be very grateful for links and starting points - I had a look for sticky posts etc but couldn't find anything immediately obvious.


----------



## andytheflyer (8 Aug 2015)

Bike or trike?


----------



## Scoosh (8 Aug 2015)

Not really possible - idiots don't ride recumbents.


----------



## seraphina (8 Aug 2015)

Andytheflyer - Probably a trike, based on nothing more than I think they look cooler...

I shall try not to lower the tone too much if I get on board a trike!


----------



## andytheflyer (8 Aug 2015)

I'm far from the most experienced bent rider on CC - others better placed will be along to advise. I ride a bent bike - so cannot real help with a trike. However - some general observations.......

IME, bents (of both types) may be ridden (but not necessarily so) by people who have a restricted mobility, or suffer from recurring pain or discomfort when riding a 'normal' (DF - Diamond Frame) bike. I get problems with hands, neck and arms riding a DF bike, but I still ride one - alternating the bent and the DF to give my body a change.

Bents in general are probably a bit slower overall compared to a DF bike, trikes even more so - but that's not a hard and fast rule. Bents are slower uphill because you can't stand on the pedals to use body weight to turn the cranks - but they may well be faster downhill and on the flat because of much reduced wind resistance. You have to build up new muscles to ride a bent - muscles that you don't use as much riding a DF bike.

Bike bents are a totally different riding experience - I had to re-learn how to ride - others on here have had similar experiences. Trikes don't present that problem - no need to balance.

The upside is that both bent bikes and trikes are supremely comfortable (once you get used to them). The sheer speed downhill, because you sit closer to the road, can be exhilarating. They also attract a lot of attention because they are not common. I only began riding a bent last November when I saw one that I thought I'd like to try on eBay - and it's been a really positive experience (after a frustrating period of getting it configured to suit my physical attributes!). I love it, and ride it regularly, as well as my DF road bike.

@SNSSO (a moderator on CC) rides a trike and she will no doubt be along to advise. 

Bents do not have much in the way of retail support in the UK - Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh and DTek in Norfolk (Cambridgeshire??) both specialise in recumbents and can help with parts. There are a number for sale on eBay, but you really need to know what you want to ride before you buy. Both Laid Back and DTek offer a road test before you buy. Having said that, all but the cycle parts (i.e essentially the frame) are either road bike or mountain bike parts - so there's not really any problem with maintaining or upgrading most bents. Sometimes you need to get creative with standard components to get them to work on a bent, but then that's half the fun.

Stick with the established manufacturers and you won't go far wrong. Having said that, @voyager on here builds her own electrically-assisted trikes, and very good they look too! Horses for courses - you need to lay hands on one or two to see what you might like.


----------



## voyager (8 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> (Apologies to the forum for a several year absence; reality had a nasty habit of getting in the way....)
> 
> I am coming into a small windfall in the near future, and barring unfortunate events happening to the house, it is currently earmarked to purchase something Fun. My thoughts have turned towards a recumbent; I am already in possession of a road bike and a more sensible Jack-of-all-trades, but have hankered after a recumbent for a while.
> 
> That said, I am at a loss as to where to start. My knowledge of recumbents is limited to thinking they look like fun. I know virtually nothing else - manufacturers, how they ride, how to set one up, what to look for etc. I would be very grateful for links and starting points - I had a look for sticky posts etc but couldn't find anything immediately obvious.





seraphina said:


> Andytheflyer - Probably a trike, based on nothing more than I think they look cooler...
> 
> I shall try not to lower the tone too much if I get on board a trike!



@andytheflyer Thank you Andy And we build and fly RC planes 

@seraphina Without a locale on your profile its difficult to be able to offer any help in the way of a test ride etc.

At a few years the wrong side of 60 we are getting the best of both worlds from our e-trikes either a fast "local town shopper " or a laid back pace touring machine .

Some of our exploits are featured in the zombie fest thread ,

If you are reasonably local , you are welcome to have a test ride

regards emma


----------



## BlackPanther (8 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> (Apologies to the forum for a several year absence; reality had a nasty habit of getting in the way....)
> 
> I am coming into a small windfall in the near future, and barring unfortunate events happening to the house, it is currently earmarked to purchase something Fun. My thoughts have turned towards a recumbent; I am already in possession of a road bike and a more sensible Jack-of-all-trades, but have hankered after a recumbent for a while.
> 
> That said, I am at a loss as to where to start. My knowledge of recumbents is limited to thinking they look like fun. I know virtually nothing else - manufacturers, how they ride, how to set one up, what to look for etc. I would be very grateful for links and starting points - I had a look for sticky posts etc but couldn't find anything immediately obvious.




I've owned a number of bents.

2 wheelers
Bachetta Strada (high racer)
Optima Baron (low-racer)
Rainbow Lyner (mid-racer)
Raptobike (lowracer)

Trikes
Ice Trice 'S'
Catrike 700 'R'
Ice Trice QNT

Briefly, the high racer was the easiest to learn to ride, and fast (Stradas are very light.) Lowracers-I didn't really get on with the lowracer Optima-was very difficult to ride at slow speeds, and I got rid of it pretty quickly BUT my current lowracer, the Raptobike is now my regular commuter, and now I've put in a few months I feel supremely confident on it. The midracer Lyner was a heavy, slow beast, but speed isn't everything to everyone. If you want to plod along touring, it could be ideal.......I'm a speed freak.

Trikes.....both Trices suited me very well. Very comfy, reasonably quick, and they're bullet proof. The Catrike was only a tad slower than the Strada/Raptobike, and a bit more fun around the bends.......but a tad harsh over bumps, and not as good a build quality as the Trices.

If you want speed and are new to bents, I'd start with a light high racer. If you want comfort, you can't beat a Trice, or if funds permit, an Ice sprint......or if you're truly loaded, an Ice vortex (drool) there's one on eBay at the moment for 3 grand.

If you're ever round Doncaster way, you're welcome to try my Raptobike, or Trice. Most members are enthusiastic about their machines, and would be more than happy to regail you with stories/experiences they've had over the years. All us bent riders want you to become.....one of us.....one of us......one of us.


----------



## mickle (8 Aug 2015)

Ride a few. I've got a demonstrator Kettwiesel if you can make it to York and a demo Ice trike coming soon too.


----------



## arallsopp (9 Aug 2015)

Yep. What @mickle said. Ride a few, then hone it. 

No offence intended, but at present, you're on the ground, watching aircraft and saying "I wouldn't mind buying a plane and learning to fly... Based upon looks, a Stealth bomber is probably the one I want, but I've also heard the new A380 is really comfortable for long distance work."

'Bents are more diverse than uprights, and you have some really fun learnings to make. If I can help, I will. Where are you based?


----------



## starhawk (9 Aug 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Bents are slower uphill because you can't stand on the pedals to use body weight to turn the cranks -



Old myths die hard, on the DF you don't get a free help by standing on the pedals, you have to use your muscle power to get your body on top of the pedal, so you don't get that body weight on the pedals for free. On a trike on the other hand you have the back of the seat to use which in actuallity means that you can use more power than on a DF, on the DF you can only use your weight but on the trike you can use all power in the legs. A friend tested it and found that he could press equal to his weigth plus 10 kg more.
Now on a trike you usually don't use all of your muscle power it's not good for the knees in the long run, and you have some weight to pull up so you creep slowly up on a low gear, theres no problem with balance as on a two-wheeler. If you want to go faster uphill you can get an e-trike some manufactors have a number of variants to choose from or you can buy a kit as I did.



andytheflyer said:


> but they may well be faster downhill and on the flat because of much reduced wind resistance.



They may not be faster downhill, a trike is faster! I tested it against a friend rolling downslope (and he is a bicycle mechanic and keeps his bike in tip-top condition) and I rolled away from him in my trike. On the flat you notice that wind is no longer a factor, you note in which direction the wind is blowing but it has no longer any effect on you, headwind makes no noticable difference.



andytheflyer said:


> You have to build up new muscles to ride a bent - muscles that you don't use as much riding a DF bike.



That is also a myth, you are just rotated around your pelvis there is no difference in the way you use your legs



andytheflyer said:


> The upside is that both bent bikes and trikes are supremely comfortable (once you get used to them). The sheer speed downhill, because you sit closer to the road, can be exhilarating. They also attract a lot of attention because they are not common.



Amen to that! the comfort of a trike is wonderful, and you get a whole different riding experience due to the way you ride, on a DF you mostly stare at the patch just in front of your bike, in a trike you have the whole landscape just in front of you and just take it in, it is a wonderful experience. Thats why bent rider has the famous "bent grin". Due to the fact that trikes are not common they attract a lot of attention also from cars, I immediately noticed that cars are much nicer to you when riding a trike, they take a wide berth when passing you and let you cross the road ahead of them. Once it was even ridiculus, I got stuck on a cyclepath with my front wheels in front of a curb and my backwheel in a sandheap (the cyclepath was in the process of being restored) but on the crossing of a road about 10 meters ahead the cars waited patiencently for me to extricate myself and cross the road.

"Stick with the established manufacturers and you won't go far wrong." is a good advice, they usually have very good customer service, I bought my trike from ICE and their customer service is excellent!


----------



## steveindenmark (9 Aug 2015)

3 things spring to mind about trikes. I had an ICE trike an so have some experience.

First you need a lot of space to store them, unless you get a folder.

If you want to transport them somewhere to ride, you need a big car or have to make a roofrack for the car.

They are invariably expensive.

I also had. Bacchetta Giro 26. 2 wheel recumbent.

Again it was expensive.

Personally, if I got another 2 wheeler it would be a low rider.

Do not worry about traffic not seeing recumbents, they do. In fact they slow down and get in the way so their kids can gawp at you out of the rear window.

Good fun but not as fast as a roadbike in my experience and you need patience if going up big hills.


----------



## BlackPanther (9 Aug 2015)

Can I just kill dead the rumour that recumbents can't climb hills. I've gained countless road bike scalps up quite steep hills. Imho, anything other than monster hills can be climbed just as effectively as on a road bike. Of course, trikes especially tend to be substantially heavier, but you can just drop down into granny gear, and climb it at 1-2 mph if necessary. Try that on a road bike without getting a major wobble! I've not yet encountered an unclimbable hill on a 'bent.

Also, I occasionally go for group rides. Up until a few weeks ago, I'd always went on the road bike.....mainly to 'fit in'. But then I tried the Raptobike. No problems, other than having to ride slower on the flat and even on steep uphills. On the downhill we had a little race with me starting from the back. Not only did I fly past the group, I did so without pedalling. Indeed, I didn't need to pedal for about half a mile after the descent, then had to ride slow to allow the group to catch up. Next ride out I'm going to take the Trice so the speeds should be similar. Bents rule!


----------



## mickle (9 Aug 2015)

I wish people wouldn't refer to recumbents as 'bents'.


----------



## ufkacbln (9 Aug 2015)

mickle said:


> I wish people wouldn't refer to recumbents as 'bents'.




OT


I had a wonderful time atthe HPV World Championships a few years ago

There is a US website called Bent rider on line

Trying to explain that to some groups in the UK could misinterpret their TShirts (especially in Brighton) did not go down well


----------



## DaddyPaddey (10 Aug 2015)

Following my accident on a DF I used son's KMX Kart trike for a month-lots of big grins.He wanted it back so I went out and bought a 2 wheel HP Grasshopper. After 2 months and 500+ miles, including the Coast to Coast and back, it has gone back to Kinetic in Glasgow. Being on the wrong side of 65 I had terrible trouble getting on and off without my feet catching in the cables, perhaps it would have been better if it had not been the underseat steering. I could ride it ok, and quite quickly but had difficulty on the hills steeper than 1:10 and the balance at slow speed. Also getting off on a steep hill was amusing to everyone else as it kept rolling off downhill with me hopping after it. Suffice to say I am awaiting my new Scorpion trike to bring back the grin and would strongly advise any newbie who wished for a 2 wheel bent to have a proper trial beforehand.


----------



## Smokin Joe (10 Aug 2015)

As I mentioned on a previous thread I too am seriously considering a recumbent, probably next year. Has anyone got any experience or knowledge of these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recumbent...-Bike-Racer-/251980934252?hash=item3aab3bec6c

The price is attractive, thought I wonder if it is as easy to control as this guy makes it look in the video.


----------



## ufkacbln (10 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> As I mentioned on a previous thread I too am seriously considering a recumbent, probably next year. Has anyone got any experience or knowledge of these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recumbent...-Bike-Racer-/251980934252?hash=item3aab3bec6c
> 
> The price is attractive, thought I wonder if it is as easy to control as this guy makes it look in the video.



I rode one many years ago called a Chinkara

Lovely machine, but my mind could not engage with the whole front end tilting 

You can steer with hands or legs....but pedalling needs to be very smooth to avoid the pedalling motion making the bike weave


----------



## seraphina (11 Aug 2015)

Thank you so much everyone, this is exactly the kind of chat I am after. I am especially grateful for all the offers of test rides etc - I am near Cambridge so D-Tek sound like a great option (Is there a website? My Google-fu has been weak) - I think most other people are a bit far away, as I have two small children to wrangle wherever I go. But the offers are very much appreciated 

@arallsopp - your airplane example describes it perfectly. As I think I stated earlier, my initial preference would be for a trike, for comfort reasons. I have no mobility/joint issues currently. Speed is not really an issue (well, I like going fast but it's not my main reason for riding) - Mr S is a bit faster than me anyway when we are out on uprights so I have made my peace with that!

I have been spending lots of time on the websites of the manufacturers mentioned here which has been helpful. Stupid question - can I use my usual panniers on a trike? I suspect ground clearance may be an issue but racks etc are available?


----------



## voyager (11 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> question - can I use my usual panniers on a trike? I suspect ground clearance may be an issue but racks etc are available?



Sometimes you need to modify a standard rack to fit a trike another alternative is hamster bags for push chairs
here is an example of both on our trikes





Pushchair Hamster bags about £30 a pair work well as well ----- http://hamsterbags.co.uk/




Standard pannier rack needed a brace from the rack down to a fixing on the rear triangle in this instance

If Mr S is a handy DIYer he might like this 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/building-a-couple-of-20-wheel-tadpole-e-trike-from-scratch.166210/


----------



## Ganymede (11 Aug 2015)

The guy at D-Tek is great, give him a ring. I planned to spend a day with him this year to get a new recumbent but unfortunately I have a frozen shoulder and have postponed my purchase till next year. There isn't a website but his details are

*D Tek*
Main Street Little Thetford Cambridgeshire CB6 1BR 
Phone: 01353 648 177

I have a HP Velotechnik Spirit, which I have enjoyed riding a lot - the comfort of not having to bend your neck backwards is so lovely and going downhill is like being on a speeding sofa - however it is heavy and this is why I want a new one.

TRAINS!! - I have thought about a trike but unless you have a folder it would be pretty hard to get on a train. I use trains quite a bit so this is why I wouldn't get one. I find my Spirit hard to carry over railway bridges too - I use a lot of small rural stations without lifts - so if this is important to you, consider it! I am probably going to go for a high racer bike next, which I hope will be lighter. For me, even a folding trike might be too much to carry when needed, due to my shoulder issues, but really think about picking the bike up when you test ride.

You need not to be a shrinking violet - everyone will wave and point! I am a total attention queen anyway so I cope...


----------



## byegad (11 Aug 2015)

1. You can get on a trike and ride it without any training, although you'll need to learn how it corners and lean into the inside off the corner to some degree if you are going very fast!
2. Two wheel 'bents are so diverse it's hard to generalise, but you will need to learn how to balance any of them at low speed. It took me a while to stop and start on my AZUB-4 without the occasional topple over.
3. I found the tops of my thighs ached after riding for the 500 or so miles, you do, in my experience, 
(As a 'bent owner since 2005 and 'bent only rider since 2008.) use slightly different muscles, but if you're generally fit, rather than specifically DF fit it won't be an issue.
4. Recumbents are fun, they attract attention both parked and in motion. Fit a small flag or better yet a pole with fluorescent ribbon lengths attached, this is not to attract the attention of the vehicle behind you, but the one behind that, so make it high enough to be seen through the windows of a car. Expect people to want to talk to you about your 'bent. 
5. Recumbents are safer than DFs. When I was riding both I was always stunned by how damned close cars passed me on a DF compared to the wide passes that are routine on a 'bent.


----------



## seraphina (12 Aug 2015)

Thanks again everyone - I have a few more questions.

Wheel size - how does this matter? I note that ICE Sprint, for example, is available in 20 inch and 26 inch wheel sizes - why does this matter? Why would you choose one over another?

Suspension - I wouldn't dream of putting suspension in any of my uprights, as I don't ride off road. Why is it marketed on recumbents? Is it just to get you to part with more cash?


----------



## voyager (12 Aug 2015)

@seraphina

Suspension on trikes ( 20" front wheels ) does help get rid of the big road shocks. We ( as a hobby ) have built both suspension and non suspension trikes and used and tested both large and narrow profile tyres , in 20/20 , 20/24 and 20/26 format development . 

Another problem you encounter with the smaller size wheel is the limited high gear available but the available lower gears ratios are lower than a 26" wheel trike 

Currently our 20/20 e-trikes use a mid mounted single damper which does absorb a lot of the usual bumps that are normal with small wheel bikes and trikes

A mesh seat rather than a hard seat is also a blessing for longer trips ,

Under seat steering is also beneficial rather than the side to side movement of Direct steering used on cheaper production trikes .
Disc brakes now are becoming standard fitting and the over active use of a rear brake will induce some interesting tail slides as the weight transfers to the front wheels under braking ..

These things were all part of the learning curve that we have found while developing and building our own pair of holiday e-trikes .

I hope these points help in making your selection - remember there are several trikes available from overseas suppliers BUT the chances of good after sales service in the event of a catastrophic failure just might not happen !

regards emma


----------



## jayjay (12 Aug 2015)

Panniers - Ortlieb Classic rollers fit just fine on my Ice rear rack, with a 20 inch rear wheel. I use small recumbent side bags too hung over the seat which do not interfere with the rear luggage.
20 inch wheels tend to drop into holes more than larger wheels, so fairly fat tyres are a good idea for comfort, or suspension, I use both and accept the extra weight.


----------



## starhawk (12 Aug 2015)

When I changed from DF to bent I had no thought in the direction of a two-wheeler, it was going to be a trike no question about it, and the first testride confirmed it, I absolutely loved it, still do!


----------



## arallsopp (13 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> Wheel size - how does this matter? I note that ICE Sprint, for example, is available in 20 inch and 26 inch wheel sizes - why does this matter? Why would you choose one over another?



You can have all manner of discussion about strength and weight and rolling resistance, but for me the following is the basis for choice:

20 inch plus points: 

same tyre size all around, so you can use that spare tube on any of the wheels.
20 inch negative points:

20" drive wheel requires custom sprocket on back, or giant chainring on front, or additional gear steps at my preferred cadence. I use a 26" drive wheel and mostly normal gearing.
20" tyre choice not brilliant. Chances of finding a spare rim/tyre/spoke/tube en route are slim (a tyre blow out in Poole once saw me cycle my 20/26 recumbent 145 miles home with an aftermarket tyre on the front. It was pink, and it had ponies painted around the tyre wall).



seraphina said:


> Suspension - I wouldn't dream of putting suspension in any of my uprights, as I don't ride off road. Why is it marketed on recumbents? Is it just to get you to part with more cash?



Compared to a DF, suspension works in a different way. Firstly, it acts 90 degrees to the direction you're pushing the pedals. You push forward/back, suspension goes up down, so you don't lose power to it. Secondly, if its well designed, the driveside chain will pass through the pivot of the rear triangle, so you won't get a bobbing effect under load. Again, your power is used to propel you forwards, the suspension just keeps the ground in reach. Thirdly, and this is the kicker, there's not an easy way to de-weight a recumbent. If you're on an upright and spy raised ironworks, a bump in the road, chipseal, etc, its pretty intuitive to just move your weight to your feet and hands, and drift over it. No need to break stride. On a recumbent, the same manoeuvre requires you to move your weight to your shoulders and toes. Its hard to pull off, and even harder to pedal through. Suspension takes this away from you. On my 20/26, I have it front and rear. On my 26/26, I have it at the back. On my dual 700, I don't have it at all.


----------



## Ganymede (14 Aug 2015)

arallsopp said:


> 20" tyre choice not brilliant. Chances of finding a spare rim/tyre/spoke/tube en route are slim (a tyre blow out in Poole once saw me cycle my 20/26 recumbent 145 miles home with an aftermarket tyre on the front. It was pink, and it had ponies painted around the tyre wall).



Pictures, _surely_.... 

My Spirit is an old model and the front wheel is only 16" (back is 20). Hellish really, very light steering and limits the speed. They only make them 20/20 now. I still love riding it.

One good thing about a 2-wheel bent is you're pretty sure nobody will steal it, because they won't be able to ride away on it.


----------



## Shaun (14 Aug 2015)

Great thread - some excellent advice given and experiences relayed. Keep us updated with your research @seraphina and let us know how you get on. 

Cheers,
Shaun


----------



## FrankCrank (14 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> As I mentioned on a previous thread I too am seriously considering a recumbent, probably next year. Has anyone got any experience or knowledge of these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recumbent...-Bike-Racer-/251980934252?hash=item3aab3bec6c
> 
> The price is attractive, thought I wonder if it is as easy to control as this guy makes it look in the video.



....visited a friend up in Chiang Rai recently - he has one of those. Says it's very difficult to ride in any meaningful way, certainly not a beginners choice - images on youtube or wherever can be deceiving. He's happily doing lot's of mods to it to try and tame it in some way. Up close, the front end geometry is way too avant-garde for my liking, think if I'd had a go at riding it I'd have done myself an injury.........


----------



## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2015)

Panniers are not a problem, even with small wheels

This is my 20" wheel Gekko touring in Wales with full size Ortlieb rear panniers


----------



## byegad (14 Aug 2015)

Rear wheels. buy 20" rear wheel if you are likely to climb steep hills and 26" wheel if you live somewhere flat, like Norfolk! Gearing a 20" wheel up to give 100" plus top gear is easily done, gearing a 26" wheel down to climb 33% hills is possible but you are looking at spending serious money on a Mountain drive bottom bracket.


----------



## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2015)

byegad said:


> Rear wheels. buy 20" rear wheel if you are likely to climb steep hills and 26" wheel if you live somewhere flat, like Norfolk! Gearing a 20" wheel up to give 100" plus top gear is easily done, gearing a 26" wheel down to climb 33% hills is possible but you are looking at spending serious money on a Mountain drive bottom bracket.



The Gekko was the opposite modification

I found the gearing ideal for hills, but too low on the flats - so I have fitted a Shlumpf HSD giveing a 34/85 on the front

You can see the heel button and gear housing at the front


----------



## seraphina (14 Aug 2015)

Thanks again for all the advice! Does anyone have experience of hub gears on a trike? 

Also how does the steering work (stupid question, I know)? Is it just like a conventional bike except handles low down?

Some lovely machines here!


----------



## FrankCrank (14 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> Thanks again for all the advice! Does anyone have experience of hub gears on a trike?
> 
> Also how does the steering work (stupid question, I know)? Is it just like a conventional bike except handles low down?
> 
> Some lovely machines here!



.....I have a 3-speed Sturmey Archer on my tadpole trike, and Shimano version on my LWB. Both have coaster brake. I live in a flat area...............


----------



## starhawk (14 Aug 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> Panniers are not a problem, even with small wheels
> 
> This is my 20" wheel Gekko touring in Wales with full size Ortlieb rear panniers


Nice bags but they are usually called saddlebags, panniers are usually hanged over the seat


----------



## TheDoctor (14 Aug 2015)

@Auntie Helen has an Alfine 11 hub gear on her Trice IIRC. I'm sure she'll be along soon. I've tried a fair few 'bents, and trikes are definitely easier to get on and ride IME. They are way too much fun!


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Do not worry about traffic not seeing recumbents, they do. In fact they slow down and get in the way so their kids can gawp at you out of the rear window.



I was thinking about that when I was in the car today. My normal field of vision means the tarmac immediately in front of the car is always visible (In fact that's the only place some idiots ever bother to look) no matter how far ahead I am scanning, so I can't see how being even a lot lower than someone on a DF makes you the slightest bit less visible to motorists. Anyone who drives will have run over a small rodent size animal that shoots out from the hedgerow just in front of the car - I bet every time it's happened you've seen the thing and automatically shot your foot across to the brake. I would even opine that a raised flag on the back is no more than a comfort blanket, use one if it makes you feel better but unnecessary.


----------



## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2015)

seraphina said:


> Thanks again for all the advice! Does anyone have experience of hub gears on a trike?
> 
> Also how does the steering work (stupid question, I know)? Is it just like a conventional bike except handles low down?
> 
> Some lovely machines here!




First... I have three trikes with Rohloff, the Catrike Expedition, the Gekko and the Kettwiesel.

I think hubs are ideal mainly because it can be difficult to start off when in thh wrong gear,and hubs sort this as you can change when static

Then we have steering!

You may as well have mentioned h*lm*ts as each design has its advocates and naysayers.... these are MY comments. They are neither right nor wrong and it is up to you to try and decide

My Catrike has two bars atached direct to the headsets. The two wheels are then connected by a single rod. This is direct, responsiva na dheaps of fun. However it can be affected by wheel motion and without damping has more vibration to the hands






The Gekko has an indirect system. Here there is a handlebar that is attached to a headset then linked to the wheels independently by rods-here on a TRice:






Still responsive, but the links mean that there is some damping that means less vibration and is more comfortable for that reason

Finally with the Delta trikes there is a pair of handlebars that connect by a steering rod to the front wheel

Utah Trikes in the US make both direct and indirect steering trike models... they describe it like this:



> Indirect steering– The Path/Cruiser/Tour/Access/Sport/Race/Commuter/Tandem trikes all have linkage steering. Linkage steering separates the input of your hands from the wheels. The steering is set up so that the steering bar uses leverage to turn the wheels. This approach provides for very smooth steering and makes it easy to make subtle corrections and turn the wheels at slow speed. Linkage steering is sometimes compared to that of a luxury car like a Lexus or Cadillac.
> 
> Direct Steering – The Zoomer/Zoomer Elite/Edge trikes all have direct steering. With direct steering the steering handles are connected directly to the kingpin. Alignment is maintained with a single tie rod connected between the two wheels. Very little rider input is needed to turn the wheels which can make steering a little harder to get the hang of at high speeds. Direct steering is sometimes compared to that of a sports car like a Ferrari or Porsche.


----------



## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2015)

starhawk said:


> Nice bags but they are usually called saddlebags, panniers are usually hanged over the seat



A saddle bag fits to a saddle....







A Pannier fits on a rack:






A side pod fits at the side of a seat:






Seat bags fit on a seat








.. and rack top bags fit on the top of that rack


Or on the Kettwiesel I use a Carradice saddlebag attached t the seat which may (or may not) make it a seat bag


----------



## byegad (15 Aug 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> The Gekko was the opposite modification
> 
> I found the gearing ideal for hills, but too low on the flats - so I have fitted a Shlumpf HSD giveing a 34/85 on the front
> 
> You can see the heel button and gear housing at the front



Yes, although my QNT (20" rear wheel.) goes to 100" top on 2" Big Apples with 55 front to 11 rear. That gives this old slow and fat rider a top gear that can be spun up to around 35mph. BUT only down hill.


----------



## starhawk (15 Aug 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> A saddle bag fits to a saddle....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ooohhh! I forgot this is mainly an English site, try it in U.S. and it is saddlebags, originally the bags you hanged over the horse just behind the saddle, so on a bike they are placed behind the saddle, that is the rear rack. The panniers are hanging on the sides of the seat. But regional differences makes for a blending so you may find any denomination for either, but I recently sourced a pair of hard saddlebags for my trike and found no one of the above (except for no 2 in pairs) under the title saddlebags, so I thought that was the proper name. And a have a pair of panniers to hang over the seat, never seen them with another name until recently.


----------



## ufkacbln (15 Aug 2015)

starhawk said:


> Ooohhh! I forgot this is mainly an English site, try it in U.S. and it is saddlebags, originally the bags you hanged over the horse just behind the saddle, so on a bike they are placed behind the saddle, that is the rear rack. The panniers are hanging on the sides of the seat. But regional differences makes for a blending so you may find any denomination for either, but I recently sourced a pair of hard saddlebags for my trike and found no one of the above (except for no 2 in pairs) under the title saddlebags, so I thought that was the proper name. And a have a pair of panniers to hang over the seat, never seen them with another name until recently.




Wasn't a dig...... 



it is just that we are a weird  eccentric eclectic bunch and the terminology is confusing.... hence the note at the end as to whether a Carradice saddlebag on the seat of the Kett had morphed into a seat bag


----------



## ufkacbln (15 Aug 2015)

byegad said:


> Yes, although my QNT (20" rear wheel.) goes to 100" top on 2" Big Apples with 55 front to 11 rear. That gives this old slow and fat rider a top gear that can be spun up to around 35mph. BUT only down hill.



It was down to the fold.....

I could have fitted a large cog at the front and used a Mountain Drive, but this version is more compact

Really the trick is to calculate where your main riding is and make sure that this is in the 1:1 ratio of the hub as this is more efficient


----------



## byegad (16 Aug 2015)

True Cunobelin. I went a different route with my Trail, gearing down to 12" for big hills and compromising on the top gear at 84" which, on a good day (Or read this as once a year!) I can spin out on the flat.


----------



## Gasman (1 Sep 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> There is a US website called Bent rider on line
> 
> Trying to explain that to some groups in the UK could misinterpret their TShirts (especially in Brighton) did not go down well



Bentrider Online to be pedantic, and what's wrong with my nice new shirt.


----------



## voyager (1 Sep 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> (especially in Brighton)



Brighton is very broadminded ........  .........................................

...  ..........to Brighton ...

regards emma


----------

