# So many new road bikes, still non-disc



## Rooster1 (22 Nov 2018)

Every week I see another road bike launch, sometimes they are a long running design and other times they are all new - but they still keep coming with non-disc

e.g.
https://road.cc/content/review/252154-storck-fascenario3-comp-ultegra

I am planning to get a new road bike next year with discs but maybe I don't need to go down the disc route?


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## Smokin Joe (22 Nov 2018)

You don't need to, most bikes are still rim brakes though discs are becoming very common and will soon be the norm. I'm building a new bike at the moment and I've gone for conventional rim brakes to keep the cost down though I'd prefer discs.


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## Grant Fondo (22 Nov 2018)

I went from Tiagra rim to Ultegra disc brakes and don't really know what all the fuss is about?


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## 172traindriver (22 Nov 2018)

The more you seem to look into it and listen to what is being said, discs will become more common in time, however there are still millions of bikes in the world with rim brakes so they wont be disappearing soon.
However once all of the pro teams switch over to discs then like most things, people will start to want the same so they will start to become even more popular. It is also interesting to note that the very high end stuff now is often being sold as disc only, I guess this will also trickle down to the more affordable versions.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

I hope it stays that way. Eventually people may start to cotton on to the fact that disc brakes are a poor ( and completely unnecessary ) idea on a road bike, and the simple economics will dictate how the manufacturers react. Hopefully they’ll leave disc brakes where they belong, on CX, Gravel / adventure bikes, Hybrids and MTBs. I don’t think the fact that disc braked versions of ‘Halo’ models often cost hundreds of pounds more, for not much benefit, and a whole load more potentially complicated and expensive trouble, helps either.


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## 172traindriver (22 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> I hope it stays that way. Eventually people may start to cotton on to the fact that disc brakes are a poor ( and completely unnecessary ) idea on a road bike, and the simple economics will dictate how the manufacturers react. Hopefully they’ll leave disc brakes where they belong, on CX, Gravel / adventure bikes, Hybrids and MTBs. I don’t think the fact that disc braked versions of ‘Halo’ models often cost hundreds of pounds more, for not much benefit, and a whole load more potentially complicated and expensive trouble, helps either.



I hope you are right, but I can see the manufacturers are so determined to push this issue it will probably be a case of the pros are told to ride disc braked bikes and once that happens sales will start to increase dramatically.


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## Milkfloat (22 Nov 2018)

I would not buy another new bike that is not disc, I am a complete convert.


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## NorthernDave (22 Nov 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> I would not buy another new bike that is not disc, I am a complete convert.



Same here.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Nov 2018)

Funny enough, one of the big drivers for disc brakes on racing bikes is carbon wheels. Wannabe racers like carbon wheels but they perform very poorly with rim brakes. With disc brakes, you can have your carbon cake and eat it. 
I really would have thought that rim crud would be the biggest driver, with mid-end bikes commuter type bikes starting to feature disc brakes on aluminium rims. But it is the other way round - disc brakes are coming from the top down, where carbon wheels are the primary driver.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Nov 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> I would not buy another new bike that is not disc, I am a complete convert.





NorthernDave said:


> Same here.




And same here too. That bike with have through-axles back and front too. Time's over for quick releases as well. Yet, I still want an aluminium frame.
When I see it, I'll buy it.


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## Milkfloat (22 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> And same here too. That bike with have through-axles back and front too. Time's over for quick releases as well. Yet, I still want an aluminium frame.
> When I see it, I'll buy it.



My only regret with my last purchase was thru axle on the front, but only QR on the rear, other than that it is perfect. Aluminium frame, hydraulic discs, good clearances, proper mudguard and rack mounts and best of all 68mm threaded BB.


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## pjd57 (22 Nov 2018)

I have a CX with discs and a hybrid without.
Main difference.....the rim brakes are really easy to change .


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## ianrauk (22 Nov 2018)

With the amount of cycling I do, especially in wet and grimy weather on my commute. Discs are a no brainer. I used to go through rims every 18 months. Pads I went through a pair every 3 months. With disc brakes I don't have to worry about that. Rims never wear out and pads last more then a year.

However for my leisure rides.. I mostly ride my Van Nick which is rim braked bike and have no plans to change.


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## Johnno260 (22 Nov 2018)

discs you really need to spend more to get the most of them, I had BB5 discs on my hybrid and they totally sucked.

I went with TRP Spyres as a replacement, and they were worth every penny.


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## ianrauk (22 Nov 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> discs you really need to spend more to get the most of them, I had BB5 discs on my hybrid and they totally sucked.
> 
> I went with TRP Spyres as a replacement, and they were worth every penny.




BB7's are also far better then BB5's. They have never let me down and easy to adjust.


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## Salty seadog (22 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> And same here too. That bike with have through-axles back and front too. Time's over for quick releases as well. Yet, I still want an aluminium frame.
> When I see it, I'll buy it.



I'm with you all the way on thru axle. They are great, especially with disc brakes.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Nov 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> My only regret with my last purchase was thru axle on the front, but only QR on the rear, other than that it is perfect. Aluminium frame, hydraulic discs, good clearances, proper mudguard and rack mounts and best of all *68mm threaded BB.*




Yesssss.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

The only road bike I’d consider with disc brakes is the Giant Propel 0 I was looking at, it’s got Carbon rims, and doesn’t come with the option of rim brakes, so I’d have no choice but to go disc braked / Thru Axled.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> I'm with you all the way on thru axle. They are great, especially with disc brakes.


 Not if you have to sort a puncture, when it’s cold and wet and dark they’re not.


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## Tenacious Sloth (22 Nov 2018)

I think quite a few riders favour contining to buy rim braked bikes because they like the ability to switch wheelsets between bikes.


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## Salty seadog (22 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Not if you have to sort a puncture, when it’s cold and wet and dark they’re not.



Yes they are, as thru axles are held in place by the thread the lever is simply flipped over with no real force so your cold wet fingers don't have to struggle to pull open a tight qr lever that can be difficult in good conditions sometimes. Turning a screwing action with those numb hands is much easier and painless.


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## SpokeyDokey (22 Nov 2018)

Discs all the way - they simply work, in wet or dry conditions.

Thru axles are brilliant - simple to use, minimal effort, everything lines up perfectly and as a bonus you can tighten them up and then flip the lever to your ideal position.


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## Kajjal (22 Nov 2018)

Being 100KG and riding in all weathers hydraulic disc brakes work much better than rim brakes for me especially in the wet on my road bike. Rim brakes do not offer the same power, consistency and control over braking for me. Thru axels are very easy to use, mean the wheel goes back in place precisely and make the steering more responsive.

The main downside to disc brakes is contamination by oil or similar. You have to be careful to wipe off excess oil as you can from your chain to avoid this. If your disc brakes are performing poorly and squealing this is likely the cause.


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## 172traindriver (22 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Not if you have to sort a puncture, when it’s cold and wet and dark they’re not.



Changing the subject slightly but another one which can split opinions is what about using tubeless tyres.
We now have the combination of discs and tubeless in the mix. Both developing and will develop more in the future.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

I was forced into replacing a frame this year and went disc. No looking back, like others I got tired of replacing worn out rims every year and a bit, i got tired of poor braking in bad weather. Brucey bonus I can run mtn bike disc 26" wheels for a bit of off road.


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## PapaZita (22 Nov 2018)

I don't have strong opinons on disc vs rim brakes for road bikes, but I do hope rim brakes stay around. I have a couple of rim brake bikes that I plan on keeping for a long time, and they're going to need new rims every now and then. I was surprised recently, when trying to find decent rim brake 26" MTB rims, just how little choice there is now.


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## rogerzilla (22 Nov 2018)

I've used discs on several bikes and didn't like them. When they work, they're good, but I had no end of problems. The Shimano mineral oil ones are least trouble; anything with DOT5.1 is a pain, as is anything without a super-easy centreing method.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Nov 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Yes they are, as thru axles are held in place by the thread the lever is simply flipped over with no real force so your cold wet fingers don't have to struggle to pull open a tight qr lever that can be difficult in good conditions sometimes. Turning a screwing action with those numb hands is much easier and painless.



I agree. In addition, you adjust them once and then just closing the lever repeats the setting. QRs on the other hand, each time you remove the wheel on a lawyers lip fork, you have to re-adjust the QR. You also have to align the wheel properly or else the brakes rub on one side. With dual-pivot calipers this is a problem, because they don't track the wheel, they remain rigid in one position.

TAs solve many problems and introduce none that I can think of. Perhaps the issue that it is a frame part and not a generic off-the-shelf interchangeable product, may be an issue. I don't know.


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## Salty seadog (22 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Perhaps the issue that it is a frame part and not a generic off-the-shelf interchangeable product, may be an issue. I don't know.



As I understand it the only issue here is that there is no standard thread, I'm not sure about axle length but I think they may be standard. once an industry standard is reached for the thread then the axle can become an 'off the shelf part'.


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## mgs315 (22 Nov 2018)

I’ve an Alu bike with rims and QRs and a Carbon with discs and thru-axles.

I very much prefer the disc bike. Only thing I’ve done is swap tubeless for clinchers as it’s less aggro.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2018)

Rim brakes wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, not enough to get a sweat over.

I'm 117kg and properly set up rims brakes on my Felt are brilliant. Given the choice I'd go disc, but if the bike floated my boat in every other department then lack of them wouldn't dissuade me. I suspect the market is largely saying the same at the moment and manufacturers are making that which they think they will sell, but it'll change with time and in 10 years I'm sure it'll be very different.


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## screenman (22 Nov 2018)

Out of interest, does anyone on here buy kit because the professional riders use it.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Not if you have to sort a puncture, when it’s cold and wet and dark they’re not.


The type of brake doesn't change the fact you have a puncture


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## derrick (22 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I was forced into replacing a frame this year and went disc. No looking back, like others I got tired of replacing worn out rims every year and a bit, i got tired of poor braking in bad weather. Brucey bonus I can run mtn bike disc 26" wheels for a bit of off road.


How many miles do you do a year to wear out a rim?


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## Heigue'r (22 Nov 2018)

derrick said:


> How many miles do you do a year to wear out a rim?



I know this question isn't directed towards me but I had a c17 zonda rear rim blow off after 3 months,just under 3000 miles.This was used for commuting through London and out into Essex,lots of stop start and crap weather plus 95kgs weight didn't help.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

derrick said:


> How many miles do you do a year to wear out a rim?



About 13,000 - 14,000 year round.


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## derrick (22 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> About 13,000 - 14,000 year round.


i have just bought new wheels for one of my bikes after 4 years of doing more or less 7000 miles a year.


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## Grant Fondo (22 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, does anyone on here but kit because the professional riders use it.



No never touched the same kit as Lance Armstrong m'lud.


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## MikeG (22 Nov 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> Every week I see another road bike launch, sometimes they are a long running design and other times they are all new - but they still keep coming with non-disc.........



Incredible, really. I mean with one you pull the lever and the bike stops, and other, by way of contrast, when you pull the lever the bike stops.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

derrick said:


> i have just bought new wheels for one of my bikes after 4 years of doing more or less 7000 miles a year.



So after 2 years and without knowing what conditions, how hilly, what weather, what rims etc etc. Largely a meaningless comparison.


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## Salty seadog (22 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, does anyone on here buy kit because the professional riders use it.



Not a chance.


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## derrick (22 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> So after 2 years and without knowing what conditions, how hilly, what weather, what rims etc etc. Largely a meaningless comparison.


Not comparing. Just saying, sorry i will not bother in future.


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## Grant Fondo (22 Nov 2018)

I'm waiting to upgrade to carbon ceramic in a few years time..just hope it stops my quantum drive e-bike


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

derrick said:


> Not comparing. Just saying, sorry i will not bother in future.



i would rather have discs than replace worn out wheels every four years. As an example my mtn bike wheels are disc and all original components 14 years on.


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## Slick (22 Nov 2018)

Probably like most I have both discs and rim and on the whole I think I prefer discs but there is nothing more disappointing than the squeal of a disc on a wet morning commute. (Fingers crossed but I think I'm squeal free for the moment) I do have a rim braked machine that I pulled out of storage last week that theoretically is just too small for me but for some reason feels very comfortable and also feels like I do some of my best times on it. I really enjoy being on that bike but it's every bit as disappointing every time I pull the rim brake on and you hear the crud you have picked up rubbing against the rim. My clip on mudguards won't fit on either because of the caliper. My personal findings of both systems is the discs do work better in winter but I certainly wouldn't be put off buying another rim braked machine as long as it was every bit as good as the one I already have.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, does anyone on here buy kit because the professional riders use it.



Nope, although i got a strange urge to buy a Sloda when Lance Wiggins got given one.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

Drago said:


> Nope, although i got a strange urge to buy a Sloda when Lance Wiggins got given one.



The Skoda Needle with turbo injection.


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## ColinJ (22 Nov 2018)

ianrauk said:


> With the amount of cycling I do, especially in wet and grimy weather on my commute. Discs are a no brainer. I used to go through rims every 18 months. Pads I went through a pair every 3 months. With disc brakes I don't have to worry about that. Rims never wear out and pads last more then a year.
> 
> However for my leisure rides.. I mostly ride my Van Nick which is rim braked bike and have no plans to change.


The rim brakes on my old CAAD5 road bike are great but I almost wore its front rim out and _did_ wear a couple of pairs of blocks out riding it through last winter. It is the descents round here - heavy braking with wet gritty rims is almost unavoidable in the winter. That bike will probably last me another 10 years but I am pleased that my CX bike and MTB have disks and I wouldn't buy another road bike without them unless I moved somewhere flat, which I don't intend to!


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Changing the subject slightly but another one which can split opinions is what about using tubeless tyres.
> We now have the combination of discs and tubeless in the mix. Both developing and will develop more in the future.


I discovered a very interesting thing on a 50 miler last weekend. I was running a very light summer type tyre on the front, with a slime tube.The tyre got absolutely peppered with all sorts of pointy cr@p after only a few miles. Unsurprisingly I got a loud ‘pop tsshhhhht’. The tube self healed with only a small loss in pressure, so I hooked out the offending object, only to realise the hole left behind was over about 5mm in diameter. I carried on riding having just topped up the pressure, but within about 20 miles I got another ‘pshhhht’ it was the hole that was causing the issue, but again the tube survived, and I carried on, another few miles later, another Pshhht, another survival, the tube self healed again. Then about 3 miles from home, yet another intrusion through the hole, and again the tube survived, and I got home with another top up. Now had that been a tubeless tyre, without access to a worm, that would have been a messy pain in the rump to sort out. I could have stopped, taken the tyre off, and put a gel wrapper or something in to patch the hole, but because it was a slime tube, I got away with out having to, a tubeless tyre would have been a nightmare in that situation.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Yes they are, as thru axles are held in place by the thread the lever is simply flipped over with no real force so your cold wet fingers don't have to struggle to pull open a tight qr lever that can be difficult in good conditions sometimes. Turning a screwing action with those numb hands is much easier and painless.


Funnily enough, that’s completely the opposite to what I’ve found. There’s a surprise. The thru axle has to go through both holes on opposite sides of the fork, that alignment is a nightmare with cold, wet dark conditions, as you’ll no doubt discover if you actually have to do it. The QR system is a doddle in comparison, as you’ve only got to drop the forks onto the skewer.


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## Jenkins (22 Nov 2018)

I'd probably go with disc brakes with thru axles if I was after another road bike, but the problem at the moment is that there are at least 3 different thru axle standards, but only 1 QR standard


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> I discovered a very interesting thing on a 50 miler last weekend. I was running a very light summer type tyre on the front, with a slime tube.The tyre got absolutely peppered with all sorts of pointy cr@p after only a few miles. Unsurprisingly I got a loud ‘pop tsshhhhht’. The tube self healed with only a small loss in pressure, so I hooked out the offending object, only to realise the hole left behind was over about 5mm in diameter. I carried on riding having just topped up the pressure, but within about 20 miles I got another ‘pshhhht’ it was the hole that was causing the issue, but again the tube survived, and I carried on, another few miles later, another Pshhht, another survival, the tube self healed again. Then about 3 miles from home, yet another intrusion through the hole, and again the tube survived, and I got home with another top up. Now had that been a tubeless tyre, without access to a worm, that would have been a messy pain in the rump to sort out. I could have stopped, taken the tyre off, and put a gel wrapper or something in to patch the hole, but because it was a slime tube, I got away with out having to, a tubeless tyre would have been a nightmare in that situation.



I thought you ride on Tannus airless tyres. I must have been mistaken.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

Jenkins said:


> I'd probably go with disc brakes with thru axles if I was after another road bike, but the problem at the moment is that there are at least 3 different thru axle standards, but only 1 QR standard


There is that.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I thought you ride on Tannus airless tyres. I must have been mistaken.


Only one of my bikes has the Tannus tyres







This one.






This one is standard pneumatic tyres.





So does this one.

And this one as well.


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## fossyant (22 Nov 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> Every week I see another road bike launch, sometimes they are a long running design and other times they are all new - but they still keep coming with non-disc
> 
> e.g.
> https://road.cc/content/review/252154-storck-fascenario3-comp-ultegra
> ...



Quite right too - I can't see the need, unless it's a commuter bike and it saves rim wear.

Race bikes/training bikes, no need. Adds weight, and I can't say I find my Shimano 600 and Dura Ace single pivots that are 25 years old, lacking braking power with good pads. 

Fugly too


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## pawl (22 Nov 2018)

I was recently looking at a giant Fast Road Hybrid with the idea of getting back into touring,perhaps with alight off road use.what put me off was discs and concealed cables.which I don’t like To me there could difficultly carrying out repairs not only out on the road but with general maintenance.I have Ultegra rim brakes on my road bike a carbon Planet X and external cables Perhaps i am a bit old school but i do like my cycling as simple as possible.

As they say horses for courses.


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## Salty seadog (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Funnily enough, that’s completely the opposite to what I’ve found. There’s a surprise. The thru axle has to go through both holes on opposite sides of the fork, that alignment is a nightmare with cold, wet dark conditions, as you’ll no doubt discover if you actually have to do it. The QR system is a doddle in comparison, as you’ve only got to drop the forks onto the skewer.



Not difficult at all. The hard bit would be fixing the puncture.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (23 Nov 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Not difficult at all. The hard bit would be fixing the puncture.


RR has rode with Chris Froome and is very experienced so his word on all things he has an opinion on, is final.


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## derrick (23 Nov 2018)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> RR has rode with Chris Froome and is very experienced so his word on all things he has an opinion on, is final.


Chris Froome does not fix punctures.


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## Salty seadog (23 Nov 2018)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> RR has rode with Chris Froome and is very experienced so his word on all things he has an opinion on, is final.



Yep, fully aware, it comes across loud and clear, I guess we're lucky to have him.


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## Smudge (23 Nov 2018)

I prefer rim brakes for their lighter weight, simplicity and ease of maintenance. I dont do big miles, so rim wear isn't an issue to me. 
Although, i do get the advantages of discs, especially on mountain bikes being used in wet muddy conditions.


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## mustang1 (23 Nov 2018)

GCN had a video recently about rim brakes will be extinct in 2 years (I haven't seen the video yet so I might be wrong?)


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## mustang1 (23 Nov 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> I went from Tiagra rim to Ultegra disc brakes and don't really know what all the fuss is about?


I recently went to disk brakes and don't notice anything until it started raining. I would have noticed more had ingone to hydro disks .


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## si_c (23 Nov 2018)

I'm a convert to disc brakes, commuting daily through all conditions make them an absolute no brainer. In the dry a good pair of rim brakes is equally good, but in the wet it's a different self contained water heater full of ocean dwellers.

For me however the biggest plus of disc brakes is the cleanliness. I rarely actually need to clean my rims, not because they are discs and it's not important, but more because they just don't get anywhere near as filthy, even in the worst conditions. My next bike is very likely to be a disc braked bike, probably with through-axles (not because I think they are better necessarily, nor have I had problems with QR, but because they are, like discs, the future), probably aluminium (maybe steel if I can find a one I like), and hopefully with a BSA threaded BB.


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## mustang1 (23 Nov 2018)

We might eventually go back to rim brakes again as wheel manufacturers figure out no one is buying winter and summer wheels any more since you can use your best wheels all year long without fear of rim wear .


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## si_c (23 Nov 2018)

mustang1 said:


> I recently went to disk brakes and don't notice anything until it started raining. I would have noticed more had ingone to hydro disks .


Probably not, the big advantage of hydraulics is the self-centering pad which means you don't need to adjust very often.


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## si_c (23 Nov 2018)

mustang1 said:


> We might eventually go back to rim brakes again as wheel manufacturers figure out no one is buying winter and summer wheels any more since you can use your best wheels all year long without fear of rim wear .


They'll just start competing on features. You'll find them being advertised as being rounder than the competition so saving 10W per wheel soon.


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## mustang1 (23 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Changing the subject slightly but another one which can split opinions is what about using tubeless tyres.
> We now have the combination of discs and tubeless in the mix. Both developing and will develop more in the future.


I have tubeless disk hydro but they are all on separate bikes.


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## si_c (23 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> If I was buying a new bike (which I'm not) I'd consider both disk and rim brakes and make a decision. I'd hope I'd have the choice to be able to make that decision. (I suspect I'd go for disks, but the question's hypothetical)
> 
> I'm about to get my rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim as my brakes have eaten it. It's done 14,000km. For an occasional weekend leisure rider like me that's a tolerable lifetime. But for a day-in-day-out commuter or serious distance rider I'd imagine the consumability of rims would be as much an issue as the ability to use carbon rims is for a racing type.


That's a decent distance to get out of a wheel, I'd definitely not be complaining!


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## SkipdiverJohn (23 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, does anyone on here buy kit because the professional riders use it.



I really couldn't give a toss what the latest pro fashion is. I've no intention of following suit. They aren't even paying for their stuff anyway - their Team/sponsors are. The cycle industry has always latched on to pro trends as a means to try to sell lesser copycat products to the masses - that's just business and has gone on for decades!
I can't abide the look of disc brakes on bikes - they really are pig ugly eyesores, and no bike of mine is ever going to have discs fitted to it. I've owned and ridden bikes for over 40 years and I have never yet worn out a wheel rim through braking. Some of my rims are steel and wear simply isn't a consideration on these. Maybe I'm not bothered because I'm not a speed merchant who wants to tear about and therefore has to rely on aggressive braking to scrub off a lot of momentum? My local terrain is generally fairly flat and brake performance is not an issue so long as they basically work. Most of the time I just stop pedalling and freewheel when I want to slow down. My brakes get very little use per mile ridden and mostly only light applications.


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## Rooster1 (23 Nov 2018)

A disc brake road bike it is.


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## screenman (23 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I really couldn't give a toss what the latest pro fashion is. I've no intention of following suit. They aren't even paying for their stuff anyway - their Team/sponsors are. The cycle industry has always latched on to pro trends as a means to try to sell lesser copycat products to the masses - that's just business and has gone on for decades!
> I can't abide the look of disc brakes on bikes - they really are pig ugly eyesores, and no bike of mine is ever going to have discs fitted to it. I've owned and ridden bikes for over 40 years and I have never yet worn out a wheel rim through braking. Some of my rims are steel and wear simply isn't a consideration on these. Maybe I'm not bothered because I'm not a speed merchant who wants to tear about and therefore has to rely on aggressive braking to scrub off a lot of momentum? My local terrain is generally fairly flat and brake performance is not an issue so long as they basically work. Most of the time I just stop pedalling and freewheel when I want to slow down. My brakes get very little use per mile ridden and mostly only light applications.



So earlier on somebody said something along the lines of everyone buys what the pro's use, my point is very few do as we see from the answers to me questions. I have worn rims down and unlike you I am a so called speed merchant, cannot abide doing anyting slow, but I have never yet replaced a rim.

I have discs on two of my bikes and rims on the other 4.


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## Shortandcrisp (23 Nov 2018)

mustang1 said:


> We might eventually go back to rim brakes again as wheel manufacturers figure out no one is buying winter and summer wheels any more since you can use your best wheels all year long without fear of rim wear .



I’ve got a couple of sets of upgraded wheels I use throughout the summer, and a spare winter set to use on the winter bike when needed. Until those wear out, I wouldn’t really be in the market for a bike with disc brakes.


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## mustang1 (23 Nov 2018)

si_c said:


> Probably not, the big advantage of hydraulics is the self-centering pad which means you don't need to adjust very often.


Yup .And they feel so smooth, there is none of that friction feeling.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Not difficult at all. The hard bit would be fixing the puncture.



Okay, whatever you reckon.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

Smudge said:


> I prefer rim brakes for their lighter weight, simplicity and ease of maintenance. I dont do big miles, so rim wear isn't an issue to me.
> Although, i do get the advantages of discs, especially on mountain bikes being used in wet muddy conditions.


That’s it in a nutshell.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> I think quite a few riders favour contining to buy rim braked bikes because they like the ability to switch wheelsets between bikes.


Another good point.


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## MichaelW2 (23 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I really would have thought that rim crud would be the biggest driver, with mid-end bikes commuter type bikes starting to feature disc brakes on aluminium rims. But it is the other way round - disc brakes are coming from the top down, where carbon wheels are the primary driver.



Trickle up is not a concept the bike industry can deal with. Just because year round commuters and winter training cyclists would like disk brakes to ride in the wet is not reason enough to provide them. Only when professional superstars ride to victory using disks will we be worthy to feed off the trickle down crumbs from their high table. Pro riders have the least to gain from disk brakes, hence the long wait.


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## confusedcyclist (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> I hope it stays that way. Eventually people may start to cotton on to the fact that disc brakes are a poor ( and completely unnecessary ) idea on a road bike, and the simple economics will dictate how the manufacturers react. Hopefully they’ll leave disc brakes where they belong, on CX, Gravel / adventure bikes, Hybrids and MTBs. I don’t think the fact that disc braked versions of ‘Halo’ models often cost hundreds of pounds more, for not much benefit, and a whole load more potentially complicated and expensive trouble, helps either.


I beg to differ, performance in the wet is my main reason for chosing discs, even if they are slightly more complex to setup and expensive, however you save on wheel rim replacement in the long run. Once you know how to look after them, they are no more trouble. In fact I think I spend less time fiddling with my BB7 calipers than my old 105 5800 rim brakes.


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## Drago (23 Nov 2018)

BB7s are great. This idea that some hydro brake fans like to trot out that cable discs take hours of setting up and adjustment every time the day ends in a Y is utter guff.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Another good point.



I have MTBs with disc brakes and I've never not been able to swap out wheels or borrow a wheel unless the disc was a different size. On road bikes there's no need for a wide range of sizes (only 140 and 160mm are available in anyway) and if you have more than one bike in your garage, you may as well standardise on disc sizes. 
There's nothing inherent about a disc brake wheel that makes it incompatible with another disc brake wheels. The hubs are ISO.


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## Mugshot (23 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, does anyone on here buy kit because the professional riders use it.


Only my Dogma, it's not ideal for the granddaughters tag-along but it great on the commute.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> I discovered a very interesting thing on a 50 miler last weekend. I was running a very light summer type tyre on the front, with a slime tube.The tyre got absolutely peppered with all sorts of pointy cr@p after only a few miles. Unsurprisingly I got a loud ‘pop tsshhhhht’. The tube self healed with only a small loss in pressure, so I hooked out the offending object, only to realise the hole left behind was over about 5mm in diameter. I carried on riding having just topped up the pressure, but within about 20 miles I got another ‘pshhhht’ it was the hole that was causing the issue, but again the tube survived, and I carried on, another few miles later, another Pshhht, another survival, the tube self healed again. Then about 3 miles from home, yet another intrusion through the hole, and again the tube survived, and I got home with another top up. Now had that been a tubeless tyre, without access to a worm, that would have been a messy pain in the rump to sort out. I could have stopped, taken the tyre off, and put a gel wrapper or something in to patch the hole, but because it was a slime tube, I got away with out having to, a tubeless tyre would have been a nightmare in that situation.



Why do you think tubeless would not seal in the same situation your slime tube half did?


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Why do you think tubeless would not seal in the same situation your slime tube half did?


The hole in the tyre would have been curtains without the tube being there. I’ve been there, done that.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I have MTBs with disc brakes and I've never not been able to swap out wheels or borrow a wheel unless the disc was a different size. On road bikes there's no need for a wide range of sizes (only 140 and 160mm are available in anyway) and if you have more than one bike in your garage, you may as well standardise on disc sizes.
> There's nothing inherent about a disc brake wheel that makes it incompatible with another disc brake wheels. The hubs are ISO.


You still need the wheel to be a discer though, it’s much more likely that some one will have a rim braker to hand than a discer, in an emergency. A couple of months ago I had some prat pile into the back of me with a car whilst waiting in an ASL Box. I had to find a LBS with a rear wheel, or it was a pain in the backside 75 mile trawl home with a broken bike. I found a place pretty nearby, and he did have a rear wheel. He did ask if was rim or disc, and said it was a good job I wanted a rim braker, as he didn’t have a discer. That’s another good reason not to go to discs on a roady just yet.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> The hole in the tyre would have been curtains without the tube being there. I’ve been there, done that.



Why? That is wnat the sealant plugs just as the slime plugged your tube.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Why? That is wnat the sealant plugs just as the slime plugged your tube.



The tyre took the brunt of the damage, the tube wasn’t damaged enough to stop the sealant working, the tyre on its own, wouldn’t have sealed with that sized hole.


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## screenman (23 Nov 2018)

Never had a puncture that stopped the ride on tubeless, never swapped wheels between bikes and never needed to borrow a wheel, I must live a sheltered life.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Never had a puncture that stopped the ride on tubeless, never swapped wheels between bikes and never needed to borrow a wheel, I must live a sheltered life.



Nah that is the typical experience.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> The tyre took the brunt of the damage, the tube wasn’t damaged enough to stop the sealant working, the tyre on its own, wouldn’t have sealed with that sized hole.



Fix the hole in the tyre and carry on that rare occurance. No biggie.


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## HLaB (23 Nov 2018)

I don't know if it was a mistake but my new frame is rim brake as I wanted to use my old components including my newish Hunt wheels and I've been happy with the simplicity/ maintenance and been happy with the stopping power. I have worn out rims in the past but not at an alarming rate that made me want to change. I hope the rim brake hangs around.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Fix the hole in the tyre and carry on that rare occurance. No biggie.


What with? I didn’t have a worm with me, if it had been a tubeless tyre, I’d have had to take it off to patch it, which would have lost the sealant, then I’d have had to run it with a tube, which would have been a messy job either way.


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## screenman (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> What with? I didn’t have a worm with me, if it had been a tubeless tyre, I’d have had to take it off to patch it, which would have lost the sealant, then I’d have had to run it with a tube, which would have been a messy job either way.



Surely if the holes had been too large to seal then there would be no sealant left in.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Nov 2018)

HLaB said:


> I don't know if it was a mistake but my new frame is rim brake as I wanted to use my old components including my newish Hunt wheels and I've been happy with the simplicity/ maintenance and been happy with the stopping power. I have worn out rims in the past but not at an alarming rate that made me want to change. I hope the rim brake hangs around.


Rim brakes will hag round, but in the same way that DT shifters have, on low end bikes or old classics.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Nov 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Rim brakes will hag round, but in the same way that DT shifters have, on low end bikes or old classics.



The sort of bike buyer found on here is not typical of the cycling public. Most punters just want something affordable and functional to get around on. For them, budget 700c hybrids equipped with relatively cheap alloy wheels, basic rim brakes, and a quill stem are not seen in any way as negative features. They do the job and they don't break the bank, and there are probably ten or more such cheap leisure/utility bikes purchased for every fancy road bike that might appeal to a "serious" cyclist.. Discs are certainly becoming more common a sight, but they are not going to displace rim brakes amongst those customers who see no benefit to them and are not prepared to pay a price premium for discs. You only have to look at how 6-speed freewheels are still commonly fitted to lower-budget bikes to see that not every cyclist wants or is willing to pay for extra gear ratios or any other supposed "upgrade".


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## Smokin Joe (24 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The sort of bike buyer found on here is not typical of the cycling public. Most punters just want something affordable and functional to get around on. For them, budget 700c hybrids equipped with relatively cheap alloy wheels, basic rim brakes, and a quill stem are not seen in any way as negative features. They do the job and they don't break the bank, and there are probably ten or more such cheap leisure/utility bikes purchased for every fancy road bike that might appeal to a "serious" cyclist.. Discs are certainly becoming more common a sight, but they are not going to displace rim brakes amongst those customers who see no benefit to them and are not prepared to pay a price premium for discs. You only have to look at how 6-speed freewheels are still commonly fitted to lower-budget bikes to see that not every cyclist wants or is willing to pay for extra gear ratios or any other supposed "upgrade".


Nip into your local motor accessory shop and see how many budget mountain bikes are fitted with disc brakes. Discs are not a new invention, they are universal fitments on cars and motorcycles and are accepted as the norm. Among casual cyclists who just want basic transport there will be no opposition to disc brakes, they will instead be seen as a plus - indeed they already are.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Nov 2018)

I scrapped an abandoned disc braked BSO MTB a couple of months ago for parts. It wasn't even very old and it was a mechanical wreck with totally non-functional brakes. The discs were visibly discoloured from overheating. There's no way even cheap rim brakes would have deteriorated into that state in such a short time. They clearly won't tolerate the sort of neglect and abuse that is dished out by casual cyclists as a matter of course.


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## si_c (24 Nov 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Nip into your local motor accessory shop and see how many budget mountain bikes are fitted with disc brakes. Discs are not a new invention, they are universal fitments on cars and motorcycles and are accepted as the norm. Among casual cyclists who just want basic transport there will be no opposition to disc brakes, they will instead be seen as a plus - indeed they already are.


Very much this, indeed as Discs become more associated with high end bikes, it will be seen as necessary to have them on the cheapest bikes. Only they won't work very well, rather like the brakes they currently fit.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> Never had a puncture that stopped the ride on tubeless, never swapped wheels between bikes and never needed to borrow a wheel, I must live a sheltered life.


Add the word ‘yet’.


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## si_c (24 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I scrapped an abandoned disc braked BSO MTB a couple of months ago for parts. It wasn't even very old and it was a mechanical wreck with totally non-functional brakes. The discs were visibly discoloured from overheating. There's no way even cheap rim brakes would have deteriorated into that state in such a short time. They clearly won't tolerate the sort of neglect and abuse that is dished out by casual cyclists as a matter of course.


Of course rim brakes would, cheap stamped steel bends and breaks no matter where it is placed. My experience of using cheap BSOs has been that the brakes universally don't work out of the box. Even a lot of fettling fails to get them to work.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> What with? I didn’t have a worm with me, if it had been a tubeless tyre, I’d have had to take it off to patch it, which would have lost the sealant, then I’d have had to run it with a tube, which would have been a messy job either way.



No, if it had been tubeless you would have been carrying the proper kit to repair on the road. No reason you would be carrying it if non tubeless as you were. What would you have done if the tube had not held well enough since you did not have levers or patches?


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I scrapped an abandoned disc braked BSO MTB a couple of months ago for parts. It wasn't even very old and it was a mechanical wreck with totally non-functional brakes. The discs were visibly discoloured from overheating. There's no way even cheap rim brakes would have deteriorated into that state in such a short time. They clearly won't tolerate the sort of neglect and abuse that is dished out by casual cyclists as a matter of course.


Another good point. The sorts of rider who want discs on their road bike, tend to be exactly the sorts of rider who will right royally knacker them in short order.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> No, if it had been tubeless you would have been carrying the proper kit to repair on the road. No reason you would be carrying it if non tubeless as you were. What would you have done if the tube had not held well enough since you did not have levers or patches?


I’m not talking theoretically here, I speak from experience. A discer road bike with thru axles and tubeless tyres is a nightmare waiting to happen. I had levers and a spare tube, but with another 45 miles to do when the tyre got holed, I’d rather not have had to use them, good job too as it transpired, because the ( non slime ) replacement tube, would have died on the consequent punctures, and then I’d have had to walk the bike to a train station.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Nov 2018)

You misunderstand. You do not need to even remove the wheel on rare occasions you might get a tubeless puncture that won't seal. It is a long way from a nightmare. Worst case scenario you end up doing what you do with tubed tyres.


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## Salty seadog (24 Nov 2018)

HLaB said:


> I don't know if it was a mistake but my new frame is rim brake as I wanted to use my old components including my newish Hunt wheels and I've been happy with the simplicity/ maintenance and been happy with the stopping power. I have worn out rims in the past but not at an alarming rate that made me want to change. I hope the rim brake hangs around.



There not going anytime soon.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> You misunderstand. You do not need to even remove the wheel on rare occasions you might get a tubeless puncture that won't seal. It is a long way from a nightmare. Worst case scenario you end up doing what you do with tubed tyres.


Obviously you lack experience. It’s never easy, often a ride ruiner.


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## Pale Rider (24 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The discs were visibly discoloured from overheating.



I'd like to know how.

There's not a descent long or steep enough to 'blue' a disc.

Had the wheel been bolted to a Honda Fireblade?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Obviously you lack experience. It’s never easy, often a ride ruiner.


Nobody on the forum is more experienced than you obviously. The rest of us might as well stop posting


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I'd like to know how.
> 
> There's not a descent long or steep enough to 'blue' a disc.
> 
> Had the wheel been bolted to a Honda Fireblade?


Trust me, a decent alpine descent with a ham fisted rider will blue a disc in short order.


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## ianrauk (24 Nov 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I'd like to know how.
> 
> There's not a descent long or steep enough to 'blue' a disc.
> 
> Had the wheel been bolted to a Honda Fireblade?




I did a 30 mile descent at fairly descent speeds (Pico de Veleta in Spain), It was the longest descent on a week of mountain road riding. It didn't effect the rotor's at all.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

ianrauk said:


> I did a 30 mile descent at fairly descent speeds (Pico de Veleta in Spain), It was the longest descent on a week of mountain road riding. It didn't effect the rotor's at all.


Obviously you’re not ham fisted.


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## ianrauk (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Obviously you’re not ham fisted.




More then ham fisted. I'm not a great descender so was on the brakes constantly. The bike was also laden down with rack and panniers bags. Also on my commute I like to grab fistfulls of brake. I have never managed to blue a rotor yet. The rotors have done over 35,000 miles and still no where near worn or blue,


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Obviously you lack experience. It’s never easy, often a ride ruiner.



Well when you have tried tubeless let know. I have many years experience and speak from that.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

ianrauk said:


> More then ham fisted. I'm not a great descender so was on the brakes constantly. The bike was also laden down with rack and panniers bags. Also on my commute I like to grab fistfulls of brake. I have never managed to blue a rotor yet. The rotors have done over 35,000 miles and still no where near worn or blue,


That surprises me.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Steve Abraham rode his year attempts on a disc braked bike with tubeless tyres. For endurance riding on UK roads no one knows even a tenth as much as Steve.
> 
> Bear in mind he had no on road support and had to fix all of his own problems on the road.


He probably ( definitely ) didn’t draw attention to the issues he suffered.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Well when you have tried tubeless let know. I have many years experience and speak from that.


 I’ve tried tubeless, over many thousands of miles, they suck.


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## 172traindriver (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> I’ve tried tubeless, over many thousands of miles, they suck.



A curiosity question, you say you have done thousands of miles on them and obviously don't rate them from your response.
I am interested as I have a set of wheels that are compatible but still run inner tubes as I find them easy enough to deal with should I have the misfortune to puncture. Now Continental have joined in they are making claims about their new tyres.
I can understand the possible mess with the sealant and keeping it fresh so it doesn't dry out but would just be interested in your views on the subject...........
Cheers


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## screenman (24 Nov 2018)

I am off to put inner tubes in the car tyres, just in case.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> A curiosity question, you say you have done thousands of miles on them and obviously don't rate them from your response.
> I am interested as I have a set of wheels that are compatible but still run inner tubes as I find them easy enough to deal with should I have the misfortune to puncture. Now Continental have joined in they are making claims about their new tyres.
> I can understand the possible mess with the sealant and keeping it fresh so it doesn't dry out but would just be interested in your views on the subject...........
> Cheers


If you have ‘support’ they are probably no problem. If you have ‘support’youd be running tubulars. From my point of view, tubeless are a godsend on low pressure MTB type tyres, but not on road tyres. There really is no advantage to using tubeless on a relatively high pressure road set up that outweighs the negatives, based on experience.


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## 172traindriver (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> If you have ‘support’ they are probably no problem. If you have ‘support’youd be running tubulars. From my point of view, tubeless are a godsend on low pressure MTB type tyres, but not on road tyres. There really is no advantage to using tubeless on a relatively high pressure road set up that outweighs the negatives, based on experience.



Thanks for your views, as I say just a thought with what I have got.
Nice to hear others views, from both sides.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> I am off to put inner tubes in the car tyres, just in case.


Good luck with that.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> A curiosity question, you say you have done thousands of miles on them and obviously don't rate them from your response.
> I am interested as I have a set of wheels that are compatible but still run inner tubes as I find them easy enough to deal with should I have the misfortune to puncture. Now Continental have joined in they are making claims about their new tyres.
> I can understand the possible mess with the sealant and keeping it fresh so it doesn't dry out but would just be interested in your views on the subject...........
> Cheers


On long distance endurance rides, I really can’t see the logic in using tubeless, over standard set up, unless you ride supported. The key advantage to tubeless, is ability to run ( relatively) low pressures, to increase comfort, without risking pinchies. For the layman, that’s not advantageous enough to justify it. It’s each to their own, and what works for Arthur, doesn’t necessarily work for Martha, but I seriously fail to see the advantage of disc braked roadies, with tubeless, over a conventional set up.


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## boydj (24 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> On long distance endurance rides, I really can’t see the logic in using tubeless, over standard set up, unless you ride supported. The key advantage to tubeless, is ability to run ( relatively) low pressures, to increase comfort, without risking pinchies. For the layman, that’s not advantageous enough to justify it. It’s each to their own, and what works for Arthur, doesn’t necessarily work for Martha, but I seriously fail to see the advantage of disc braked roadies, with tubeless, over a conventional set up.



Tubeless will also seal small punctures, so I'd expect fewer punctures with a tubeless setup. If you are stuck you can always stick a tube in. I'm a recent convert to road tubeless - having worn out the rims on my old wheels - and I've been impressed with the improvement in ride quality. If I was in the market for a new bike, I'd definitely be going for disc brakes, and tubeless if possible.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2018)

I like discs apart from not being able to tell when the pads are worn without removing them.

Perhaps it's my declining eyesight, but I was caught out when the fronts wore out on a hilly ride in Yorkshire.

Descending 'on the rivets' made a fearful scraping noise, but at least no long term harm was caused to the rotor.

Probably did a good job of degreasing it.


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## si_c (25 Nov 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I like discs apart from not being able to tell when the pads are worn without removing them.
> 
> Perhaps it's my declining eyesight, but I was caught out when the fronts wore out on a hilly ride in Yorkshire.
> 
> ...


Should be able to see how much is left by taking a proper look at them through the caliper. If it's getting close I just replace them anyway - and if the fronts wear out on a ride, I'd stop and swap them with the rears.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2018)

Swapping with the rears is a thought, although when I got to fettle the brakes properly I found both ends well worn.

It's an ebike so I probably use a bit more rear than I would on a pushbike.

Were I doing long distance regularly, I would carry a set of pads.


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## kingrollo (25 Nov 2018)

Ive just switched to hydro discs on my newest bike. in terms of braking power I am struggling to see a difference from my older ultegra rim brakes.

And then with discs you get the joy of through axles ...in terms in fiddly ness these seem a backward step over QR levers..

just a question should the front and rear brake caliper offer the same level of resistance when braking ...because at the moment one has more 'play' than the other.


----------



## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2018)

kingrollo said:


> Ive just switched to hydro discs on my newest bike. in terms of braking power I am struggling to see a difference from my older ultegra rim brakes.
> 
> And then with discs you get the joy of through axles ...in terms in fiddly ness these seem a backward step over QR levers..
> 
> just a question should the front and rear brake caliper offer the same level of resistance when braking ...because at the moment one has more 'play' than the other.



They should be the same, although the longer hose to the rear can mean that one feels a bit spongier.


----------



## adamangler (25 Nov 2018)

Ive just bought a disc brake bike, my other bike has sram force rim brakes.

Tbh, i havent felt any difference in performance they both stop perfectly well.

I would suggest that unless you are encountering really wet and muddy terrain they are not needed at all...

I think i made my choice on looks and just because i wanted them...i quite like the look of them and hence why i bought a bike with them on

so if you dont care which you have id stick to rim brakes, cheaper, lighter and more wheel options


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## ianrauk (25 Nov 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I like discs apart from not being able to tell when the pads are worn without removing them.
> 
> Perhaps it's my declining eyesight, but I was caught out when the fronts wore out on a hilly ride in Yorkshire.
> 
> ...


What I have found with the BB7's is that when worn the retaining spring starts scraping the caliper. It's a noise I have come to recognise and of which tells me the pads need changing.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2018)

ianrauk said:


> What I have found with the BB7's is that when worn the retaining spring starts scraping the caliper. It's a noise I have come to recognise and of which tells me the pads need changing.



The first scraping from my Shimano pads might have been the retaining spring, which would explain why I didn't score grooves in the rotor.

The pads wore out at about 3,500 miles, a bit less than I expected.

Current plan is to change them at 7,000 miles irrespective of wear.

That will be about a year or so of use, which is acceptable.


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## adamangler (25 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Is this actually a real problem for anyone who's not in a race?
> 
> I only remove my wheels when the bike is on the stand at home (and I have a load of tools to hand and plenty of time anyway) or on the very rare occurrences I get a puncture on the road, in which case wheel removal/replacement is a tiny percentage of the total time needed to fix the problem. The amount of time that QRs have saved me over the years must add up to ... oooh ... a couple of minutes.



i think the same goes for most things in cycling whether its having discs or rims, 25 or 28mm tyres, 10 or 11 speed.....the list goes on forever. Unless you are in a race where every watt or second counts then the vast majority of it is just excuses to spend our money.

We all can argue a case that suits us when in reality the differences are that small they`re negligible to 99% of us.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2018)

adamangler said:


> i think the same goes for most things in cycling whether its having discs or rims, 25 or 28mm tyres, 10 or 11 speed.....the list goes on forever. Unless you are in a race where every watt or second counts then the vast majority of it is just excuses to spend our money.
> 
> We all can argue a case that suits us when in reality the differences are that small they`re negligible to 99% of us.



Suntour's threadless Qloc2 through axle came with my bike.

It's probably marginally quicker than a quick release, and the wheel lines up in the fork easier.

Cons are complication, I think someone said there's 16 or more components to make the axle.

Also you are stuck with Suntour forks, although mine have magnesium legs and are fully serviceable.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8IqJD34Ky0


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## 172traindriver (25 Nov 2018)

adamangler said:


> i think the same goes for most things in cycling whether its having discs or rims, 25 or 28mm tyres, 10 or 11 speed.....the list goes on forever. Unless you are in a race where every watt or second counts then the vast majority of it is just excuses to spend our money.
> 
> We all can argue a case that suits us when in reality the differences are that small they`re negligible to 99% of us.



Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb and if you can afford the latest thing, well why not. If you have worked and earned the money and can afford it, go ahead and buy your new toy whatever it is, bike, computer, tv, car etc. We are all only here for a short time and enjoy your life, cos we all know we cant take it with us


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## Slick (25 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb and if you can afford the latest thing, well why not. If you have worked and earned the money and can afford it, go ahead and buy your new toy whatever it is, bike, computer, tv, car etc. We are all only here for a short time and enjoy your life, cos we all know we cant take it with us


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## Drago (25 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb and if you can afford the latest thing, well why not. If you have worked and earned the money and can afford it, go ahead and buy your new toy whatever it is, bike, computer, tv, car etc. We are all only here for a short time and enjoy your life, cos we all know we cant take it with us



Here here, albeit tempered with the thought that rampant and unnecessary consumerism damages the planet.


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## Salty seadog (25 Nov 2018)

kingrollo said:


> Ive just switched to hydro discs on my newest bike. in terms of braking power I am struggling to see a difference from my older ultegra rim brakes.
> 
> And then with discs you get the joy of through axles ...in terms in fiddly ness these seem a backward step over QR levers..
> 
> just a question should the front and rear brake caliper offer the same level of resistance when braking ...because at the moment one has more 'play' than the other.



You'll notice the difference in the wet. 
Thru axles are great with disc brakes as the wheel lines up perfectly every time so no disc rub. 
The difference in feel on the levers is probably a difference in how well they've been bled and primed


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## screenman (25 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb and if you can afford the latest thing, well why not. If you have worked and earned the money and can afford it, go ahead and buy your new toy whatever it is, bike, computer, tv, car etc. We are all only here for a short time and enjoy your life, cos we all know we cant take it with us



Not sure about falling for the blurb, I see advertising as a way of informing people what you make or have for sale. People ask me what I do for a living, well I fix dents, straight away without advertsing the fact they think I use filler and paint, I do not, my adverts told people how I fixed them.

Like wise the tools I sell, without adverts who would even know they exist or where to buy them.

I do fully agree with your last sentence.

I think a lot of green eyed monster goes on often in this forum and many others.


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## kingrollo (25 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Is this actually a real problem for anyone who's not in a race?
> 
> I only remove my wheels when the bike is on the stand at home (and I have a load of tools to hand and plenty of time anyway) or on the very rare occurrences I get a puncture on the road, in which case wheel removal/replacement is a tiny percentage of the total time needed to fix the problem. The amount of time that QRs have saved me over the years must add up to ... oooh ... a couple of minutes.



Well I often stick my bike the back of car - The QR lever stays with the wheel - a through axle is another bit to put somewhere or loose.

I have heard that a lad at the club who got a puncture couldn't get TA in - a couple of other guys helped - Turns out the QR lever had cross threaded in the frame - quite a new bike as well - Shop were very reluctant to repair under warranty - needless to say he isn't a fan of through axles !!!


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## screenman (25 Nov 2018)

The through axle is so easy, I just cannot see any problems.


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## screenman (25 Nov 2018)

kingrollo said:


> Well I often stick my bike the back of car - The QR lever stays with the wheel - a through axle is another bit to put somewhere or loose.
> 
> I have heard that a lad at the club who got a puncture couldn't get TA in - a couple of other guys helped - Turns out the QR lever had cross threaded in the frame - quite a new bike as well - Shop were very reluctant to repair under warranty - needless to say he isn't a fan of through axles !!!



How on earth do you cross thread a through axle, no wonder the shops were reluctant.


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## Rusty Nails (25 Nov 2018)

I have a bike with a through axle and bikes with standard QRs. TBH I don't notice any more problems with refitting wheels of either type, especially disc brake wheels. I cannot get excited by possibly saving 4 or 5 seconds changing a wheel, and if anything I find changing the old QR axles easier.

If I ever get a cyclocross bike, and actually plan to use it off-road, then it probably will be disc brakes. But in general it's fair to say I'm underwhelmed by the idea of them on road bikes.


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## kingrollo (25 Nov 2018)

screenman said:


> How on earth do you cross thread a through axle, no wonder the shops were reluctant.



I would imagine that the thread was probably ropey in the first place. I wouldn't have though it impossible to cross thread a through axle though.


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## Ian H (25 Nov 2018)

I'm in the process of speccing a new road frame. It'll have rim brakes.


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## screenman (26 Nov 2018)

kingrollo said:


> I would imagine that the thread was probably ropey in the first place. I wouldn't have though it impossible to cross thread a through axle though.



Maybe not impossible, but you would need to be very hamfisted as it is held nice and straight from the other side.


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## confusedcyclist (27 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb and if you can afford the latest thing, well why not.



Just one example of why this is terribly untrue. Press fit bottom brackets.


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## Drago (27 Nov 2018)

confusedcyclist said:


> Just one example of why this is terribly untrue. Press fit bottom brackets.



29ers, droppers, Biopace, Girvin flexstems, elastomer suspension, cantilever rear suspension, ISIS BBs, cartridge bearing wheels, low normal...


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Nov 2018)

172traindriver said:


> Lets be fair, we all fall for the marketing blurb



No we don't. It might work on you, but marketing BS doesn't work on me I can assure you. If anyone out there is relying on selling me a plethora of pointless gimmicky rubbish I don't need in order to feed their kids, I'm afraid their kids will stay hungry and my money will be staying in my pocket.. As far as I'm concerned lugged 531 with a 6-speed on the back, quill stem, rim brakes, square taper cranks, 36 spoke alloys and decent puncture resistant tyres is all the modernity I need or want to enjoy a ride.
Don't want 11/12 speed cassettes, don't want electronic shifting, don't want e-bikes, don't want clipless, don't want lycra, don't want carbon, don't want discs, don't want power meters, don't want 29-ers, don't want suspension, don't want fat tyres, don't want headsets that require spacers for adjustment, don't want anything designed in a wind tunnel, don't want crappy press-fit BBs, don't want through axles, don't even really want QR hubs.


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## FishFright (27 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No we don't. It might work on you, but marketing BS doesn't work on me I can assure you. If anyone out there is relying on selling me a plethora of pointless gimmicky rubbish I don't need in order to feed their kids, I'm afraid their kids will stay hungry and my money will be staying in my pocket.. As far as I'm concerned lugged 531 with a 6-speed on the back, quill stem, rim brakes, square taper cranks, 36 spoke alloys and decent puncture resistant tyres is all the modernity I need or want to enjoy a ride.
> Don't want 11/12 speed cassettes, don't want electronic shifting, don't want e-bikes, don't want clipless, don't want lycra, don't want carbon, don't want discs, don't want power meters, don't want 29-ers, don't want suspension, don't want fat tyres, don't want headsets that require spacers for adjustment, don't want anything designed in a wind tunnel, don't want crappy press-fit BBs, don't want through axles, don't even really want QR hubs.



You have your very own BS to sell and it's not getting any market traction.
And worst of all it's not product marketing it's that most useless of things ' a life style' you insist in to crow barring into every thread you can .


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## screenman (27 Nov 2018)

I suppose some people like to share their money around and others like hoard it.


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## colly (27 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No we don't. It might work on you, but marketing BS doesn't work on me I can assure you. If anyone out there is relying on selling me a plethora of pointless gimmicky rubbish I don't need in order to feed their kids, I'm afraid their kids will stay hungry and my money will be staying in my pocket.. As far as I'm concerned lugged 531 with a 6-speed on the back, quill stem, rim brakes, square taper cranks, 36 spoke alloys and decent puncture resistant tyres is all the modernity I need or want to enjoy a ride.
> Don't want 11/12 speed cassettes, don't want electronic shifting, don't want e-bikes, don't want clipless, don't want lycra, don't want carbon, don't want discs, don't want power meters, don't want 29-ers, don't want suspension, don't want fat tyres, don't want headsets that require spacers for adjustment, don't want anything designed in a wind tunnel, don't want crappy press-fit BBs, don't want through axles, don't even really want QR hubs.



Yeah but some people actually like things that function better than they did in the past. So it isn't 'all' marketing hype. Some is I grant you.
People had a cars with a starting handles once and they worked perfectly. Despite that things moved on, now we have electric starter motors. 

Whatever next huh? Soon cars will be doing more than 10mpg !!


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## Smokin Joe (27 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> As far as I'm concerned lugged 531 with a 6-speed on the back, quill stem, rim brakes, square taper cranks, 36 spoke alloys and decent puncture resistant tyres is all the modernity I need or want to enjoy a ride.
> Don't want 11/12 speed cassettes, don't want electronic shifting, don't want e-bikes, don't want clipless, don't want lycra, don't want carbon, don't want discs, don't want power meters, don't want 29-ers, don't want suspension, don't want fat tyres, don't want headsets that require spacers for adjustment, don't want anything designed in a wind tunnel, don't want crappy press-fit BBs, don't want through axles, don't even really want QR hubs.


Which is fair enough, if you'd stop implying that everyone who doesn't share your view is some sort of mug with more money that sense. I don't know how long you've been riding, but I first pinned a race number on my back in 1969 so I rode those older bikes you describe quite extensively, but I wouldn't touch one today because modern technology has made bikes easier to ride both further and faster. 

And before you go on about simplicity and longevity a lot of the kit from back then was very crudely engineered by modern standards and no where near as reliable as the rose tinted glasses would have you believe.


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## si_c (27 Nov 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Which is fair enough, if you'd stop implying that everyone who doesn't share your view is some sort of mug with more money that sense. I don't know how long you've been riding, but I first pinned a race number on my back in 1969 so I rode those older bikes you describe quite extensively, but I wouldn't touch one today because modern technology has made bikes easier to ride both further and faster.
> 
> And before you go on about simplicity and longevity a lot of the kit from back then was very crudely engineered by modern standards and no where near as reliable as the rose tinted glasses would have you believe.


Definitely. I really love vintage steel bikes, and I have two of them. However, I can ride further, faster and more comfortably on my alloy, disc braked, modern geometry, aheadset fitted commuter bike than either of the other two. And it's not even a particularly expensive or aerodynamic bike.


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## Drago (27 Nov 2018)

Although alloy bikes date from the late 1800s, so its difficult to argue they're the latest thing or any more up to date than steel. They're well established, mature, historic technology in their own right - a different branch of bike development, not a modern trendy fad.


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