# Tour de France 2013 *spoilers*



## Noodley (27 Apr 2013)

The invited teams for 2013 have been announced - Cofidis, Sojasun and Europcar - no surprises there in 3 French teams


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## raindog (27 Apr 2013)

And great news if you live in France - France Television have just signed a new TdeF contract which will take them up to 2020. When other sports are governed by greed/money we can still see the Greatest Sporting Spectacle for free.


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## Herzog (27 Apr 2013)

I was hoping for IAM rather than Sojasun...long shot given it's their 1st year, but they have been active in races to date.


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## rich p (27 Apr 2013)

Spoilers?
Who won the prologue?


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## tigger (27 Apr 2013)

Give it a month and I'll start a 2014 TDF thread. Blimey Noods, the only thing this is spoiling is the Giro thread surely?


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## Noodley (27 Apr 2013)

a slow burner


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## montage (3 May 2013)

No IAM for the Vuelta either. Disappointing for them


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## Strathlubnaig (25 May 2013)

Some early recce getting done here.... http://mobile.france24.com/en/20130524-prisoners-cycle-tour-de-france-stage-under-heavy-guard


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## Crackle (28 May 2013)

So what are people's thoughts on Evans being ready for this. He said he was using the Giro for training but a Grand Tour for training to go for a GC position in LeTour?

It seems unlikely to me, especially at 36. My thoughts are he won't be recovered enough. However I know @lukesdad thinks he'll be there fighting for a podium spot, whereas I think Van Garderen will ascend to the team leader at some point in the race.


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## laurence (28 May 2013)

is it just me or are others having trouble seeing any real contenders other than Contador, Purito and one of the Sky duo?

I'd love to see Cadel do something and reckon he will go for the Ryder approach at the Giro, shake up some early stages and see if anyone reacts and, if not, get some small advantages. if that fails, then TJ will take over.

Sky could get it on teamwork - hard to see beyond them for that approach, but in the mountains it may not go to plan.

anyway, it's le Tour, anything can happen


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## smutchin (28 May 2013)

laurence said:


> is it just me or are others having trouble seeing any real contenders other than Contador, Purito and one of the Sky duo?


 
Wot no Quintana? He's the not-so-dark horse for me. Definitely a contender.

Though, tbh, I can't really see beyond Contador for the top spot - I just think he'll be too good for Froome, in much the same way as he was at the Vuelta last year. It's not that Contador is necessarily a stronger rider but he's a cannier rider.

Can't see Purito ever winning a Grand Tour. But I wouldn't object to being proved wrong on that.


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## rich p (28 May 2013)

Anyone who thinks Contador is nailed on had better grab the 5/2 Bwin is offering!
http://www.oddschecker.com/cycling/tour-de-france/winner
They have Froomedawg at evens! Crazy talk!
Quintana is singularly under-rated by the betting companies Smutch; even behind Andy Schleck!!!!!
He could be good for an each way punt IMO but I think Froome will really give Dirty Bertie a good run for his money with or without Wiggins' help.
Evans will struggle to repeat his podium I think.


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## smutchin (28 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Quintana is singularly under-rated by the betting companies Smutch; even behind Andy Schleck!!!!!


 
I expect that's because they're getting their tips from Liggett & Sherwin.

The main factor against Quintana as far I can see is his lack of Grand Tour experience compared to the other big names. But 36th in the Vuelta last year, his first GT, isn't a bad showing. He lost six minutes in the time trial there but he's clearly improved in that department, as he showed at the Tour of the Basque Country...

We may well see his odds shorten after the Dauphiné.



> I think Froome will really give Dirty Bertie a good run for his money with or without Wiggins' help.


 
Agreed, but I think Contador's racing brain will give him the edge.


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## The Couch (28 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> So what are people's thoughts on Evans being ready ...
> It seems unlikely to me, especially at 36. My thoughts are he won't be recovered enough.


I have about the same feeling, this Giro was gruesome (considering the weather conditions), so I do believe that the effects will come into play at one point or another (even if Nibali - who still looked great after 3 weeks - would participate in the Tour, I would expect him to feel the effects of this cold and rainy Giro at one point or another).



laurence said:


> is it just me or are others having trouble seeing any real contenders other than Contador, Purito and one of the Sky duo?


The only ones I see having something of a somewhat decent chance other than these 4 would be Quintana and Dan Martin.

FYI

I see Valverde focussing - like last year - on the Vuelta
JVDB hasn't had the best/ideal preparation due to falls/injuries (and he is a control-maniac, so that must play in his head)
TJ hasn't exactly blown me away with his performances so far, which he hadn't done last year either, but that same form isn't good enough for the victory
If Wiggo starts than Porte is option 3 and that's too far down the piramyd
Rolland is actually looking marginally better than last year, so I would bump him up versus previous years but not fully to a contender (he is still French and French GT winners are still a big gamble to take )
Pinot has had a wonderful Tour last year and although his year so far suggests he should be able to do minimum as good this year, I still want to see him confirm his result before he gets bumped up to (a close outside) favourite
Moreno looks improved this year, but I don't think his improvement will be so drastic (and he is also second fiddle of course)


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## raindog (28 May 2013)

Official profiles now available.
http://www.velochrono.fr/actu/2013/parcours-tour-de-france-2013/
I'll have time to ride out quite a way and choose a nice spot to watch the peloton on our second local stage, and still have loads of time to get back and watch it on telly. They do the Col des 13 Vents and the Croix de Mounis near Bedarieux - ridden up 'em both. Can't bloody wait for this.


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## 400bhp (28 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> So what are people's thoughts on Evans being ready for this. He said he was using the Giro for training but a Grand Tour for training to go for a GC position in LeTour?
> 
> It seems unlikely to me, especially at 36. My thoughts are he won't be recovered enough. However I know @lukesdad thinks he'll be there fighting for a podium spot, whereas I think Van Garderen will ascend to the team leader at some point in the race.


 

Agree with you. Van Garderen for the Tour.


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## jarlrmai (28 May 2013)

SO DAMN PSYCHED FOR THIS....

The Giro has set it up nicely, the Sky drama, Cuddles/Van G etc etc, OPQS tactics!!


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## 400bhp (28 May 2013)

raindog said:


> Official profiles now available.
> http://www.velochrono.fr/actu/2013/parcours-tour-de-france-2013/
> I'll have time to ride out quite a way and choose a nice spot to watch the peloton on our second local stage, and still have loads of time to get back and watch it on telly. They do the Col des 13 Vents and the Croix de Mounis near Bedarieux - ridden up 'em both. Can't bloody wait for this.


 

Stage 10 @ 142km - "Cote De Dinan" cat 4 climb. Anyone know the precise location? We are staying in Dinan to watch 3 tour stages


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## Pedrosanchezo (28 May 2013)

Hmmm, Contador doesn't seem to be in the same form this year but maybe he is just ascending until he peaks at the Tour. 
Don't think he has the same team support that Sky will have either. 
Evans is a surprise. Think he will manage a top 5. Possibly podium. Decent team with him. 
I personally think Quintana is a fantastic rider but lacks experience and support. I'd say he will win some alpine stages. 
Froome is the favourite and with good reason. He's the form rider and has a fantastic team behind him. He TT's better than most and climbs with the best. It's just a shame he's about as likeable as Justin Bieber. 
As for Wiggins, no one could predict that one. He could win it, place on podium, retire half way through, murder Froome in his sleep or not bother riding the Tour and target the Vuelta! Who knows! Can't wait to find out though.


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## Monsieur Remings (28 May 2013)

raindog said:


> Official profiles now available.
> http://www.velochrono.fr/actu/2013/parcours-tour-de-france-2013/
> I'll have time to ride out quite a way and choose a nice spot to watch the peloton on our second local stage, and still have loads of time to get back and watch it on telly. They do the Col des 13 Vents and the Croix de Mounis near Bedarieux - ridden up 'em both. Can't bloody wait for this.


 

Can you pick us up a bottle of red when you get to around, say, 63 kilometres? Maybe you could stop halfway up the hill?

Nice one, Raindog.


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## Monsieur Remings (28 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Hmmm, Contador doesn't seem to be in the same form this year but maybe he is just ascending until he peaks at the Tour.
> Don't think he has the same team support that Sky will have either.
> Evans is a surprise. Think he will manage a top 5. Possibly podium. Decent team with him.
> I personally think Quintana is a fantastic rider but lacks experience and support. I'd say he will win some alpine stages.
> ...


 

Good points, I just hope that what happened in Italy doesn't put a cat among the pigeons in regard to the Sky leadership...but I have a suspicion it might.


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## Pedrosanchezo (28 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Good points, I just hope that what happened in Italy doesn't put a cat among the pigeons in regard to the Sky leadership...but I have a suspicion it might.


I share your suspicion.


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## jarlrmai (28 May 2013)

I don't think Wiggins will enter the Vuelta, is he confirmed for the CdD? Froome is I think.


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## andrew_s (28 May 2013)

So far, Sky have Froome, Porte, Suitsou and EBH confirmed for the Dauphinee, and Dombrowski for Suisse


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## Monsieur Remings (29 May 2013)

Contador started the season very well and was great at Tirreno but you never know with him, he has the tactical awareness for sure but without the dope (?), who knows? He's a lovely rider to watch, effortless climbing etc.

I can't see Tejay doing it this year, despite the way he's ridden so far. Cadel or Tejay? I know where I'd place my bet but what might this create within the team? It almost reeks of home...

I think we'll see more of Nacer Bouhanni and I still think Sagan will take green. Purito Rodriguez will take a stage or two - I think the Ventoux stage (15). Cadel Evans will be top 10 and as for the rest, who knows...Valverde will, I think, under-perform because he'll be saving his EPO energy for the Vuelta. Voeckler will have his tongue massaged by a senior soigneur at the end of each of the mountain stages and Quintana Roo could be an outside for the Polkadot perhaps? As for Visconti...IF he rides, well who knows?

I'm going to hope for Froome though...and also that Thibaut Pinot can do something alongside Nacer for the French.


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## Slaav (29 May 2013)

Simply cannot wait!

How many sleeps?


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## lukesdad (29 May 2013)

I hope Valverde doesn't focus on the Vuelta he was my annual Jan 1st bet, purely a financial descison of course !

Being realistic for a moment, I see it ending on the second stage with Tommy V having an unassailable lead of 12 mins.


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

If Wiggins doesn't enter the Dauphine and rides second fiddle in the tour, then what does he have left to go for this season but the Vuelta? Even a podium finish behind Froome at the Tour is a a backward step from 2012. One way or the other he will need a win from 2013 in order to contend the top spot @ Team Sky. Wiggins doesn't strike me as the domestique type.


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## raindog (29 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Can you pick us up a bottle of red when you get to around, say, 63 kilometres? Maybe you could stop halfway up the hill?



ha - you have good taste! Actually, no need to travel 60ks for good wine. This is made by a couple we know in the next village 7ks away.
http://www.roquemale.com/


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## Noodley (29 May 2013)

raindog said:


> ha - you have good taste! Actually, no need to travel 60ks for good wine. This is made by a couple we know in the next village 7ks away.
> http://www.roquemale.com/


 
Just reading the page makes me want to get a few bottles and bugger off home from work...


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## raindog (29 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Just reading the page makes me want to get a few bottles and bugger off home from work...


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

Have just spotted and purchased the "Tour race guide, 100th edition magazine" in the local newsagents. "Collectors edition" it reads. Wiggo's yellow jersey better be inside for £8!!! 

Wiggins vs Froome is the headline. Friends or foes?


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## 400bhp (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> If Wiggins doesn't enter the Dauphine and rides second fiddle in the tour, then what does he have left to go for this season but the Vuelta? Even a podium finish behind Froome at the Tour is a a backward step from 2012. One way or the other he will need a win from 2013 in order to contend the top spot @ Team Sky. Wiggins doesn't strike me as the domestique type.


 

Porte is Froome's wingman this year. Not 100% who is Wiggin's wingman, but if it's Henao or Uran I really can't see either doing the TDF. Wiggins is gonna have to be shoehorned in.

Team Sky need a B team. Just sayin.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 May 2013)

There is also a problem it Porte and Uran and Henao already want to be top dog for the Vuelta. Uran is certain not to be because he's leaving, but both the other two have a case, even without Wiggins being involved.


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> There is also a problem it Porte and Uran and Henao already want to be top dog for the Vuelta. Uran is certain not to be because he's leaving, but both the other two have a case, even without Wiggins being involved.


This town isn't big enough for the...........erm.............FOUR of us!!!! 
​


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## 400bhp (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Have just spotted and purchased the "Tour race guide, 100th edition magazine" in the local newsagents. "Collectors edition" it reads. Wiggo's yellow jersey better be inside for £8!!!
> 
> Wiggins vs Froome is the headline. Friends or foes?


 

I think that's the thing I ordered online-wanting full race routes really.


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> I think that's the thing I ordered online-wanting full race routes really.


It seems pretty good on first glance. Already cleared a few things up, like the reason Wiggins went back to standard round chainrings for example.


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## threebikesmcginty (29 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Just reading the page makes me want to get a few bottles and bugger off home from work...



You can't read that, it's all in foreign!


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## themosquitoking (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> It seems pretty good on first glance. Already cleared a few things up, like the reason Wiggins went back to standard round chainrings for example.


 
And?


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> And?


It cost me 8 quid and you think i'm just gonna put out that easy!!?? 

Donations? 
​


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

Wiggins "I've dropped the oval chainrings i used in the past, because they hindered me on the really steep climbs".


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## redcard (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> It seems pretty good on first glance. Already cleared a few things up, like the reason Wiggins went back to standard round chainrings for example.



That the one with the 2012 highlights DVD?


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

redcard said:


> That the one with the 2012 highlights DVD?


No it's the one with the photo book of memorable Tour moments, since it's inception.


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## themosquitoking (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Wiggins "I've dropped the oval chainrings i used in the past, because they hindered me on the really steep climbs".


 
Isn't that exactly what they were designed to make easier?


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Isn't that exactly what they were designed to make easier?


I think some believe they reduce fatigue and smooth the power output by the rider. Ideal for TT's. Some speculated that the reason was the new Dura ace 11 speed set up but this seems not to be the case. 

Bottom line though is Wiggins has pinpointed the oval chainring as a hindrance when the ascent becomes steep. AKA the Giro.


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## themosquitoking (29 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I think some believe they reduce fatigue and smooth the power output by the rider. Ideal for TT's. Some speculated that the reason was the new Dura ace 11 speed set up but this seems not to be the case.
> 
> Bottom line though is Wiggins has pinpointed the oval chainring as a hindrance when the ascent becomes steep. AKA the Giro.


 
Does rule 5 apply here?

Whatever, i'm going to invent a double helix chainring that will make climbing up hills at 35 mph a breeze. You might have to have two chains though.


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## SWSteve (29 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Does rule 5 apply here?
> 
> Whatever, i'm going to invent a double helix chainring that will make climbing up hills at 35 mph a breeze. You might have to have two chains though.


 
Think of the extra weight!


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## The Couch (30 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> There is also a problem it Porte and Uran and Henao already want to be top dog for the Vuelta. Uran is certain not to be because he's leaving, but both the other two have a case, even without Wiggins being involved.


 
As I have said in the past, I believe Porte will be quite exhausted after the Tour. Since I see him ending with a very decent standing, a top 10 place (like a smaller last year Froome, but without the squabbles), which means he will be too much tempted to give it everything in every stage (as well to prove his possible status for next year). And I don't see him recuperating quickly enough for the Vuelta (even Froome was knackered last year). This is of course, considering Wiggins won't participate, otherwise Porte will be (forced to take) a step down.

When Henao realized that in the Giro Uran was the better placed man (after the stage win of Uran) and probably being a little more tired due to the heavy work he had already done in earlier races, I believe Henao intentionally let it go in the last week of the Giro, to have a go at it in the Vuelta. Apparently Sky prefers to elect 1 leader, so it would still make sense to have Wiggins be the numero uno, but I would (like them to) give Henao full freedom to do whatever he likes in the Vuelta (like Tejay will have complete freedom in the Tour and won't have to "wait" for Evans if he should get dropped like last year).


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## smutchin (30 May 2013)

I was under the impression Quintana was going to be at the Dauphiné but apparently not...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-will-not-race-again-before-tour-de-france

I hope this strategy works out for him better than it worked out for Wiggins at the Giro.

(I also hope there's nothing suspicious about his wanting to stay out of the limelight. Not that I believe there's necessarily any reason to be suspicious, but I'm sure the out-of-competition testers will be on his case just to make sure. Just as I'm sure they were on Wiggo's case while he was sojourning in Tenerife.)


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## The Couch (30 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... but I'm sure the out-of-competition testers will be on his case just to make sure. Just as I'm sure they were on Wiggo's case while he was sojourning in Tenerife.)


 
Out-of-competition (more specifically within the last week before a big race) is apparently anyway the most effective way to detect suspicious levels... as Di Luca can confirm 
(Since we didn't hear anything from Di Luca samples being positive during the Giro, I am assuming the practiced experts know how to keep the levels low enough during the big races)


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## Buddfox (1 Jun 2013)

Seems like Blanco now have Belkin as their sponsor with the new kit to be used at the Tour de France. Good news.


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## montage (1 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Bottom line though is Wiggins has pinpointed the oval chainring as a hindrance when the ascent becomes steep. AKA the Giro.


But it this because the gear ratios or biomechanics?


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## Pedrosanchezo (1 Jun 2013)

montage said:


> But it this because the gear ratios or biomechanics?


He didn't delve into that Montage but my guess is the gear ratios wouldn't play a part but the biomech's would. I am pretty sure he will still TT with the oval chainring but even then that is a guess and not an informed thought. I think he had done a lot of climbing pre Giro and figured out that the steep stuff required a normal chain set.


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## Noodley (1 Jun 2013)

The thread title is not "Tales of fecking chainrings and gear ratios *spoilers*" for a reason


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## Pedrosanchezo (1 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> The thread title is not "Tales of fecking chainrings and gear ratios *spoilers*" for a reason


It's all relevant no? Especially when asked a question about it. Would be rude of me to ignore the good man that is Montage.


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## The Couch (3 Jun 2013)

You know, guys, I just trimetravelled to the end of the Tour 2013 and (since the title of this thread clearly warns for spoilers) I really wanted to tell you about the amazing outcome of this year's Tour...

GC:
1st place: Wiggins
Who would have thought that when Sky announced (the last day before the Tour-start) that Wiggo would participate that he would be able to accomplish the re-peat (was the knee injury just sand in everyone's eyes)? However, with the Sky-internal pressures being too much for Froome to handle, the positive test from Bertie and due to weather-conditions the cancelling of all mountains steeper than 12% Wiggo all of a sudden had a free track to the victory.​2nd place: Schleck
Who would have believed that Schleck was such a good actor... from the first mountain that they needed to climb Schleck was looking like the old Contador arch-enemy he used to be. If only, he would have been as good a descender as Wiggins, he would have won this year's Tour.​3rd place: De Gendt
After loosing close to 2 hours in the mountain stages nobody believed he could pull off the solo he started in the first kilometer of the last mountain stage. However with a performance that outshined his last year's Giro stage-win, the non-existing form he had shown this year and due to a peloton where no team seemed willing to take the lead of getting the difference down, he managed the incredible feat of taking enough time back to take the 3rd place.​ 
KOM: Di Luca
Contesting his pre-Giro positive result in front of the court and changing to Astana, he managed to get starting rights for the Tour. Motivated to show his good form he attacked almost every stage and took enough point in the KOM ranking to win it in a landslide. Of course, the trial will take some years to get through, so KOM might still go the person who ended in second position.​​Green jersey: Matt Goss
Since Greipel and Cavendish had split the points in the pure sprints and Sagan mysteriously had no form at all (people said it was his youth that finally showed), it was the unexpected Goss - who took points in both the medium mountain stages and the flat stages - to win the Green Jersey without actually winning a stage.​


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## rich p (9 Jun 2013)

So after the Dauphiné, Sky and the others will be finalizing their line-ups.
@thom and I were musing over this on another thread and basically agreed on the Dauphine team for Sky - plus Eisel and Knees and minus Kennaugh.
PK, though, had a great race and was dropping off the train up the hills just before Thomas whilst David Lopez had a stinker; dropping time every day and DNFing on the last day. He may have been ill but if not it must put a doubt against his name.


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## jowwy (9 Jun 2013)

surely henao or uran should be in that team - stannard seemed to also struggle on the steep stuff too

my team would be froome, port, hagen, kiryenka, knees, eisel, henao, thomas and uran.

the above is a climbing machine.


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## thom (9 Jun 2013)

Henao is going on leave to Columbia. I saw he's down for a couple of races before the Vuelta - Uran would likely be a similar schedule.


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2013)

I thought Stannard did rather well today - spent a mighty long time on the front and climbed well. He'd done his job by the time they hit the final climb.


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Though, tbh, I can't really see beyond Contador for the top spot - I just think he'll be too good for Froome, in much the same way as he was at the Vuelta last year. It's not that Contador is necessarily a stronger rider but he's a cannier rider.



I may have to revise this opinion after the Dauphiné. He claims he's only at 75% at the moment but where on earth is he going to find the other 25% in the next three weeks? In a blood bag? In a steak?

Froome looks deadly right now.


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## rich p (9 Jun 2013)

I thought Stannard was immense in the Dauphiné. I can imagine him pulling on the front for hours on the flatter days.


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2013)

Really wish Nibali was going to this race as he seems to be the only rider in similar form. As it stands Froome , barring injury, will wear yellow at the Champs elysees. Contador doesn't appear to have the comparable team mates nor the form Froome currently possesses. 
Realistically who else is there?


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## rich p (10 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> So after the Dauphiné, Sky and the others will be finalizing their line-ups.
> @thom and I were musing over this on another thread and basically agreed on the Dauphine team for Sky - plus Eisel and Knees and minus Kennaugh.
> PK, though, had a great race and was dropping off the train up the hills just before Thomas whilst *David Lopez* had a stinker; dropping time every day and DNFing on the last day. He may have been ill but if not it must put a doubt against his name.


 I've just this quote from Nicolas Portal..
“_They all performed brilliantly today, even David [Lopez], who has been struggling with sickness. He deserves a mention because he showed his character today. He was taking clothing to and from the car, collecting bidons and riding hard before we instructed him to call it a day.”_ which explains Lopez's poor showing.


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## Herzog (11 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Realistically who else is there?


 
An outside bet would be Talansky.... first TdF and with a Garmin team possibly weakened by the ill/concrete magnet that is Hesjedal. Top 10 in last years Vuelta and 2nd in Paris-Nice suggest he's coming along nicely. A good bet for the white jersey!


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## smutchin (11 Jun 2013)

Surely Dan Martin becomes team leader if/when Ryder pulls out?

The white jersey will be an interesting tussle - there are loads of possible strong contenders: Talansky, Tejay, Quintana, Pinot, Vichot, Kwiatowski... Personally, I'd go for Quintana above Talansky.


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## Herzog (11 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Surely Dan Martin becomes team leader if/when Ryder pulls out?
> 
> The white jersey will be an interesting tussle - there are loads of possible strong contenders: Talansky, Tejay, Quintana, Pinot, Vichot, Kwiatowski... Personally, I'd go for Quintana above Talansky.


 

In theory yes, but the nervous first week can change everything.


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## The Couch (11 Jun 2013)

Herzog said:


> In theory yes, but the nervous first week can change everything.


And if last year has shown us anything, it is that Garmin has big difficulties avoiding crashes in the first week.
(The same applies to the Dutch/Blanco riders)

I had believed Dan Martin to be the best rider on the team anyway (even before all the Ryder troubles)... he should be able to go for a very good GC ranking.
Hesjedal should probably best focus on a stage victory.
Talansky surprised me last year during the Vuelta with some nice consistency, so I believe he should have a shot at the white jersey (but then again Quintana and Pinot are both looking very strong and will probably make it a 2-horse race)


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## Pedrosanchezo (11 Jun 2013)

Herzog said:


> An outside bet would be Talansky.... first TdF and with a Garmin team possibly weakened by the ill/concrete magnet that is Hesjedal. Top 10 in last years Vuelta and 2nd in Paris-Nice suggest he's coming along nicely. A good bet for the white jersey!


Yeh he looks good for the future. Many have though in the past and gone on to do zilcho. Gesink comes to mind. 

I mean that there appears to be no competition for Froome. The two best riders just now might not meet all year at a Grand tour and that's just too easy. 

I haven't written AC of yet but he's not the favourite we all thought he was. After him it's a poor list of contenders.


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## Herzog (11 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I haven't written AC of yet but he's not the favourite we all thought he was. After him it's a poor list of contenders.


 

Don't worry Schleck will come good for the tour...cue tumbleweed.


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## ColinJ (11 Jun 2013)

Tony Martin has been complaining that the descent from Alpe d'Huez is very dangerous and should not have been included in the Tour. I didn't see it in the Dauphiné but he says that the road surface is old and battered, with some bends being unbarriered and a 30 metre drop off the side - link. 

Some people are leaving comments arguing that the riders should simply ride within their capabilities, but accidents can always happen. It is one thing to risk road rash and broken collarbones but a 30 metre fall is quite likely going to kill!

If racing goes ahead on that descent then I hope that all the riders get down safely. If the peloton agree with Martin, then perhaps they will refuse to race down it and neutralise the stage until they pass that point?


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## rich p (11 Jun 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Tony Martin has been complaining that the descent from Alpe d'Huez is very dangerous
> 
> If racing goes ahead on that descent then I hope that all the riders get down safely. If the peloton agree with Martin, then perhaps they will refuse to race down it and neutralise the stage until they pass that point?


 
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tdf-2013-route.111329/

It appears they didn't upgrade it!!!


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## ColinJ (11 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tdf-2013-route.111329/
> 
> It appears they didn't upgrade it!!!


Ah, I missed that - I searched this thread but not others!

I used to go on a 2 week road training camp every Spring on the Costa Blanca and I spotted a climb and descent that we never used. I asked one of the ride leaders why not and was told that it was too dangerous to take a group ride over. The descent was similar to the one off Alpe d'Huez. We had a 'rest day' halfway through the camp so I decided to go and check out this dodgy descent. Despite knowing what it was like, I overcooked it on one gravel-strewn bend and got a stomach-churning view of the drop beyond!


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## thom (11 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tdf-2013-route.111329/
> 
> It appears they didn't upgrade it!!!


Still time though. I think it is worth bearing in mind that it is raced on stage 18, well into the race so:
1) Riders will be tired - there will be a few in an escape and a few GC riders in the peloton watching each other - nobody else will be racing that hard
2) The 1st ascent of the Alpe will spread the field out so it won't be a descent crammed with riders
3) People will be saving their energies for the final ascent of the Alpe - I don't think many will think they can make decisive time on the dangerous upper part of the descent to make a difference. Sanchez & Valverde perhaps
4) They haven't used the corniche road above the Romanche valley, which is 10 times more precarious ! ;-)


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## 400bhp (11 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Surely *Dan Martin* becomes team leader if/when Ryder pulls out?
> 
> The white jersey will be an interesting tussle - there are loads of possible strong contenders: Talansky, Tejay, Quintana, Pinot, Vichot, Kwiatowski... Personally, I'd go for Quintana above Talansky.


 
^^this^^

He's 80:1. Gonna have a tenner each way bet. IMO Martin has been pencilled in as the Garmin leader for the Tour already.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jun 2013)

I dreamt last night that Richie Porte got busted for EPO. 

I'm not superstitious so read nothing into it, but I share it with you all as an insight into my subconscious thought processes.

Dull, huh?


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## Radchenister (14 Jun 2013)

Multiple universe time wormhole telepathy.


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## jifdave (14 Jun 2013)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...cks-contador-trump-froome-tour-123943322.html

Sean Kelly picks contador for the tour...


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## The Couch (14 Jun 2013)

jifdave said:


> http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...cks-contador-trump-froome-tour-123943322.html


 
"*In fact, Evans and Contador will be the only previous Tour winners taking to the start in Corsica*"
Strange, I thought a certain Luxemburg-ish descending talent would also be competing
(well... competing might be a bit harsh.. let's say he will take to the start as well)


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> I dreamt last night that Richie Porte got busted for EPO.
> 
> I'm not superstitious so read nothing into it, but I share it with you all as an insight into my subconscious thought processes.
> 
> Dull, huh?


 

Perhaps suggest this type of fortune telling as a trigger for suspicion that the UCI to use in the future


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## The Couch (17 Jun 2013)

400bhp said:


> Perhaps suggest this type of fortune telling as a trigger for suspicion that the UCI to use in the future


So you don't believe in the current roll-of-the-dice doping arrest strategy anylonger?


----------



## Twizit (17 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tdf-2013-route.111329/
> 
> It appears they didn't upgrade it!!!


 
Having just spent a long weekend cycling around the Alpe and going over the Sarenne, I can happily confirm that they haven't done much with it. Lots of loose gravel on the surface where pot holes have been filled but the surface is still very uneven and I certainly wouldn't descend it at any speed! That said I'm not being paid to ride and local opinion was that the road would be swept before the tour anyway.

'tis a lovely descent though, and can be nicely followed by a climb straight up Les Deux Alpes before heading back down the valley and up Alpe D.


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## cd365 (17 Jun 2013)

I see on the main website that you can drill-down onto the map and see the actual roads they are going down, I can now plan where I will sit for the 3 stages I plan to see.


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## smutchin (18 Jun 2013)

Blanco have left the sprinters at home but look like they might be targeting the early punchy stages...

Lars Boom, Laurens ten Dam, Robert Gesink, Tom Leezer, Bauke Mollema, Lars Petter Nordhaug, Bram Tankink, Sep Vanmarcke, Maarten Wynants

Boom for stage 2, anyone?

Strong support for Mollema in the mountains too.


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## rich p (18 Jun 2013)

Kittel and Degenkolb lead the charge versus Cav for Argos Shimano.
The sprints should be hotly contested this year with Greipel, Bouhanni, Sagan et al, all in the hunt.


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## dragon72 (18 Jun 2013)

Totally agree with ricardo p about the competition at the sprints being keen.
Normally I only pay attention on mountain and TT days, as they are where GC is won and lost, but I think the flat stages are looking pretty tasty this year.


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## jowwy (18 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> Kittel and Degenkolb lead the charge versus Cav for Argos Shimano.
> The sprints should be hotly contested this year with Greipel, Bouhanni, Sagan et al, all in the hunt.


when did cav switch to argos shimano


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## rich p (18 Jun 2013)

jowwy said:


> when did cav switch to argos shimano


Late last night.


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## The Couch (18 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> Late last night.


Ow right... that happened when he heared that Renshaw was moving there, right?


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## jifdave (19 Jun 2013)

View: http://youtu.be/BMryWP7qXLw
3D tour route, getting close now...


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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)




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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)




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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)




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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)

There you go. Handy stage profiles for reference. With breaks between posts for rest days.


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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)

Oh, and if anyone fancies printing them out and sticking them up on their wall, see attached pdf. (I've left off stage 21 to make them fit on the page better - but we all know how that one ends anyway, ie with Cav winning on the Champs-Elysees.)


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## Strathlubnaig (19 Jun 2013)

RSN scraping the barrel for tour leaders this year.


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## deptfordmarmoset (19 Jun 2013)

This site is pretty good for the overviews: http://www.cyclingthealps.com/#tour-de-france-2013-stage-1-stageprofile


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## smutchin (19 Jun 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> RSN scraping the barrel for tour leaders this year.



That's certainly an "experienced" squad they're sending.


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jun 2013)

ITV4's television schedule here -> http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/tour-de-france-2013-live-on-itv-full-tv-schedule/


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## The Couch (20 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> That's certainly an "experienced" squad they're sending.


Last year with Horner in there as well, it might have even been worse  . But still (as a team) they did a surprisingly good job (and won the team classification I believe).

Still - as a rider for Radioshack - wouldn't you have issues with the fact that you'll be a domestique for someone who hasn't had one decent result in 2 years time? (Unless you are counting a 15th place in 1 stage of the Tour de Suisse as something decent )
Personally, I might give the youth the reigns this year and let Gallopin and Jungels (who hasn't even been selected) do whatever the hell they will and give them the chance to absorb as much experience as they can

(and perhaps it wouldn't harm to try to get some more youthful talent in the team as well)


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> Personally, I might give the youth the reigns this year and let Gallopin and Jungels (who hasn't even been selected) do whatever the hell they will and give them the chance to absorb as much experience as they can


 
I suspect the decision is largely political - we saw the problems Sky were having with their plan to send the reigning TdF champion to the race in a domestique role. OK, so it wouldn't have been quite so controversial to send Schleck as a domestique, but he was always going to be team leader on paper, though we might well see Gallopin become de facto leader by the time the race hits the Pyrenees.

Garmin could find themselves with a similar dilemma if Hesjedal is fit to ride. If!

Blanco/Belkin don't have quite the same problem with making Mollema team leader because Gesink hasn't won a GT (plus Mollema is a better prospect anyway IMO).


----------



## thom (20 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> I suspect the decision is largely political - we saw the problems Sky were having with their plan to send the reigning TdF champion to the race in a domestique role. OK, so it wouldn't have been quite so controversial to send Schleck as a domestique, but he was always going to be team leader on paper, though we might well see Gallopin become de facto leader by the time the race hits the Pyrenees.
> 
> Garmin could find themselves with a similar dilemma if Hesjedal is fit to ride. If!
> 
> Blanco/Belkin don't have quite the same problem with making Mollema team leader because Gesink hasn't won a GT (plus Mollema is a better prospect anyway IMO).


I think the GC riders other than Contador, Froome or Cadel Evans are likely not too concerned about who specifically is the team leader. You go in the best shape you can get to and expect someone else will win, so it is easier to ride for a team-mate who happens to be doing really well. Schleck obviously gets the formal nod as RSN leader and Hesjedal might too for Garmin, but if either lost massive time relative to a team mate I don't think there would be much gnashing and wailing of teeth within those teams. When the big prize is not really at stake, it's easier to say to a couple or 3 good guys in a GC team that they get the support from the rest of the team and ultimately the road will show who's strongest and capable of the highest finish. Most teams don't have to manage Wiggo's ego & propensity to lock horns within the team.


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Most teams don't have to manage Wiggo's ego & propensity to lock horns within the team.


 
Indeed. The only team I can see having similar problems to Sky is Movistar, with Costa and Quintana.

But as you say, it will probably all sort itself out on the road.


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## The Couch (20 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> I think the GC riders other than Contador, Froome or Cadel Evans are likely not too concerned about who specifically is the team leader. ...


 
You believe that Evans would have made a big issue of it, if Tejay would have been named the team leader?

(Personally I am not that convinced about it.. I think he - secretly - prefers the underdog role more -and he seems to ride better in this role as well-)


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## thom (20 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> You believe that Evans would have made a big issue of it, if Tejay would have been named the team leader?
> 
> (Personally I am not that convinced about it.. I think he - secretly - prefers the underdog role more -and he seems to ride better in this role as well-)


Well yes, I think he'd see that both him and Tejay ought to be given a fair crack of the whip but I do think after his Giro performance that he has a legitimate claim not to be a super-dom for Tejay from the start.
The issue is also partly Sky specific because of the way they ride - all lined up in order of preference. True, Tejay tried to help Cadel in the La Toussuire stage, going off the front to give Cadel something to bridge to but that was perhaps a specific race situation. For most GC riders, I think they will expect Sky and Saxo-Tinkoff to do the heavy lifting on the front and their own GC riders trying to stay with that front. There's less of an imperative to pick between your 2 best guys at the point.


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## thom (20 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Indeed. The only team I can see having similar problems to Sky is Movistar, with Costa and Quintana.


Do you think Valverde will be there too ?


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## The Couch (20 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Do you think Valverde will be there too ?


I think nobody can predict what Valverde will do... he might give his all and end up with a podium place in the GC ... or he might save himself for the Vuelta and just go for a stage win and end up somewhere only in the first 30 positions of the GC.

I do believe that Smutchin was indeed referring to the fact that Quintana and Costa might also be capable of claiming (co-)leadership. But as you (thom) explained here above, I believe indeed most teams don't really need that much helpers since it will be the teams of the 2 topfavourites who should be doing the work. Movistar will/can probably do as the many other teams (Euskaltel, Cofidis, Garmin ...), which is pick the best rider after about 2 weeks racing and elect him as "true GC leader".


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## thom (20 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> I do believe that Smutchin was indeed referring to the fact that Quintana and Costa might also be capable of claiming (co-)leadership.


Yeah - it is true that Movistar could have an issue with 2 or 3 guys. If Valverde does go, perhaps he'll go like last year though, to sharpen up for the Vuelta and try for a stage win rather than a GC place.
Somehow, teams other than Sky don't seem to have obvious internal struggles at the moment. Even Garmin if they have both Hesjedaal & Dan Martin, will likely not have to make a choice of one subjugating themselves for the other - they seem an equitable team with riders collaborating willingly throughout the year, racing for the jersey as well as themselves.

But hey, wtf do I know !? Maybe it was Tejay who paid someone to chuck tacks under Cadel's wheels...


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Do you think Valverde will be there too ?


 
Well, I nearly said "Costa, Quintana and Valverde"... I suspect the only person who thinks Alejandro Valverde is still a contender is Alejandro Valverde, but then he did win the Tour of Andalucia...

Basically, I'm not sure. What do you reckon?


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> I do believe that Smutchin was indeed referring to the fact that Quintana and Costa might also be capable of claiming (co-)leadership.


 
Actually, I was thinking of one of Costa or Quintana as leader with Valverde as a domestique - mainly because I thought his ambitions this year were for the Vuelta, but I might be mistaken on that, and as you say... who knows what he'll do? Probably not even his team-mates. 

I don't think he'll win anything though. He's past it. The sooner he does a Menchov, the better for everyone, not least his team-mates.


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## thom (20 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Well, I nearly said "Costa, Quintana and Valverde"... I suspect the only person who thinks Alejandro Valverde is still a contender is Alejandro Valverde, but then he did win the Tour of Andalucia...
> 
> Basically, I'm not sure. What do you reckon?


I reckon like last year he'll target the Vuelta - it is easier without Froome, Contador (or Wiggo most likely). As he is a pro, I think he has made the calculation....


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## thom (20 Jun 2013)

Sky team : Froome, Thomas, Stannard, Kennaugh, Porte, Kiriyenka, Lopez, Siutsou, Boassen-Hagen.
So a couple of surprises in Stannard and Kennaugh from my guess - neither Eisel or Knees make it.


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Valverde fancies a podium finish....
> 
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/valverde_aims_for_tour_podium/



Hmmm. Ok, so I guess that's a three-way tussle for the leadership.


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## The Couch (21 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Valverde fancies a podium finish....
> 
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/valverde_aims_for_tour_podium/


Yeah, but so did he last year ...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/movistar-announce-tour-de-france-team

And he seemed to be saying about the same things
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-anything-can-happen-in-tour-de-france
("We will go for the overall title"... "but will be difficult"..."Wiggins and Evans most likely for the win")


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## The Couch (21 Jun 2013)

Does anybody believe that some of these guys could be reach a (bit of a) suprise top 10?
Taaramae
Navarro
Nieve
Gadret

All are pretty much "under-the-radar" (or if you prefer "underachieving to the expectations" in the last year  ) riders but who (should) have targeted the Tour as focus point


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## Dave Davenport (21 Jun 2013)

Have we had any predictions for the final podium yet?
A bit obvious but I'll go for;
1. Froome
2. Bertie (on the assumption he hasn't scoffed half a ton of finest Spanish beef since the Giro)
3. Porte


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## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> Does anybody believe that some of these guys could be reach a (bit of a) suprise top 10?
> Taaramae
> Navarro
> Nieve
> ...


 
Well, I've picked Taaramae for my fantasy team... He looks to be in good form and is over his illnesses at last. I think he's a real prospect. I reckon he'll finish in the top ten, maybe even the top five.

Navarro also looks in good form. He and Nieve could be good bets for a stage win in the mountains. Gadret I think might be slightly past his best now, but still could do something in the mountains.

All the above with the usual caveat that I mostly haven't clue what I'm talking about.


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## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Have we had any predictions for the final podium yet?


 
Froome
Quintana
Porte

Rest of the top ten, in no particular order:
Contador, Mollema, Taaramae, Martin, Evans, Tejay, Talansky


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## VamP (21 Jun 2013)

I just don't see Sky dominating like last year. Two podium places? Really?

*disclaimer of my own.


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## The Couch (21 Jun 2013)

VamP said:


> I just don't see Sky dominating like last year. Two podium places? Really


 
Although Porte might intrinsically be a top 3 in this Tour (with the 3 time trials and Nibali focussing on Giro this year), I also don't think it's going to happen. I believe that Porte will have to start pulling the bunch much earlier than Froome needed to do last year, so I expect Porte to drop a bit earlier (than if he would be leader in another team)
... still I easily see a top 10 in him though (as I have said earlier )


The Couch said:


> ... But he will be most likely knackered after the Tour, since I expect him to be able to go for a top 10 place there (similar to Froome last year).


 
My top 3 guess is:
Va Va Froome
Dirty Bertie
Purito

And then the others in no particular order:
Pinot, Rolland, Costa, Quintana, Porte, Martin, Van Garderen, Moreno


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## Hont (21 Jun 2013)

My podium prediction. Two dopers and one clean rider.

Needless to say I hope the clean rider wins.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jun 2013)

Surely we are not discounting Evans from a possible podium spot?? Being the most boring rider in the TDF doth not necessarily make him weak. In fact, bearing in mind that anything can happen in the Tour - crashes included, Evans would seem like a decent outside bet for the overall. No more than a tenner mind @ 25/1. 

Maybe i've just had too much coffee for the day. 

Anyway, if all pans out then i think the podium will be:

Froome
Contador
Evans

The rest in no order:

Vangarderen
Porte
Purito
Valverde
Rolland
Talansky
Quintana


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## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> I believe that Porte will have to start pulling the bunch much earlier than Froome needed to do last year, so I expect Porte to drop a bit earlier (than if he would be leader in another team)


 
Don't forget that Sky lost Siutsou very early on last year, and were also carrying baggage in the form of Cav (and Eisel as his minder). Barring mishaps, I reckon they're actually stronger this year, simply because they're fully focused on the sole objective.



> Purito...
> Pinot, Rolland, Costa, Quintana, Porte, Martin, Van Garderen, Moreno


 
Can't believe I forgot about Purito! He'll be top ten for sure. And Pinot! I've even got him in my fantasy team too. Some other good names in there I'd forgotten about too.


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## Dave Davenport (21 Jun 2013)

Without Froome as the odds on favourite it would be really wide open.


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## VamP (21 Jun 2013)

I suppose that Froome might win. I am far from convinced that he's nailed on though.

What about green? Cav or Sagan? Anyone else with a look in?


----------



## Buddfox (21 Jun 2013)

I think Dan Lloyd tweeted that he got an each way bet on Mollema at 400/1... doesn't seem to bad


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## VamP (21 Jun 2013)

Buddfox said:


> I think Dan Lloyd tweeted that he got an each way bet on Mollema at 400/1... doesn't seem to bad


 
Seriously? Gotta be worth a tenner.


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## Buddfox (21 Jun 2013)

Yeah, it was during the Tour de Suisse. I can't check odds at the moment, maybe they've shortened since then.


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## The Couch (21 Jun 2013)

Hont said:


> My podium prediction. Two dopers and one clean rider.


It's probably going to be either 3 clean riders or 3 dopers (can't see a clean rider beating dopers... we all know the Big Tex example)



Pedrosanchezo said:


> Surely we are not discounting Evans from a possible podium spot??
> Evans would seem like a decent outside bet for the overall


True, but -personally - I don't see him doing well in 2 GTs (the Giro was anyway quite gruelling)


Pedrosanchezo said:


> Maybe i've just had too much coffee for the day.


Probably yes



smutchin said:


> Don't forget that Sky lost Siutsou very early on last year


Very good point.. but I believe he couldn't have done much more than what Hagen, Rogers and Porte already did


smutchin said:


> and were also carrying baggage in the form of Cav (and Eisel as his minder). Barring mishaps, I reckon they're actually stronger this year, simply because they're fully focused on the sole objective.


I agree that this is a very strong team, I am just not sure that in the mountains they have the same strength (or are stronger) as last year...
And if Porte has to start pulling on the last climb from too far away from the finish line, he's not going to have the same shot at a good GC position


----------



## Crackle (21 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> Does anybody believe that some of these guys could be reach a (bit of a) suprise top 10?
> Taaramae
> Navarro
> Nieve
> ...


 
Has Gadret done anything since finishing 3rd in the 2011 Giro?


----------



## jowwy (21 Jun 2013)

VamP said:


> I suppose that Froome might win. I am far from convinced that he's nailed on though.
> 
> What about green? Cav or Sagan? Anyone else with a look in?


i've gone for sagan on this one, think he got more in the tank during the mountain stages than cav


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## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

Buddfox said:


> I think Dan Lloyd tweeted that he got an each way bet on Mollema at 400/1... doesn't seem to bad


 
Crikey. I'm tempted to have a punt on that if I can get those odds.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

VamP said:


> What about green? Cav or Sagan? Anyone else with a look in?


 
Cav, purely because I think there are five stages with his name on them, plus he'll go after the intermediate sprints. I reckon Sagan will win two or maybe three stages.


----------



## Hont (21 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> can't see a clean rider beating dopers


 
Final GC from 2011...
​1




Cadel Evans (AUS) 

 BMC Racing Team
86h 12′ 22″​2



Andy Schleck (LUX) Leopard Trek
+ 1′ 34″​3



Fränk Schleck (LUX) Leopard Trek
+ 2′ 30″​


----------



## thom (21 Jun 2013)

Brailsford talks about young French tour riders in the Guardian.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Brailsford talks about young French tour riders in the Guardian.


A nice article, that. I do wonder whether the French have settled into a _chevalier seul_ habit, though.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> I agree that this is a very strong team, I am just not sure that in the mountains they have the same strength (or are stronger) as last year...
> And if Porte has to start pulling on the last climb from too far away from the finish line, he's not going to have the same shot at a good GC position


 
Well, Porte will fill the Froome role nicely and presumably Thomas will step up and fill the Porte role, which I think he's very capable of.

Then in the engine room you've got Siutsou, EBH, Kiryienka, Lopez, Stannard and Kennaugh compared to Siutsou, EBH, Rogers and Knees last year. I'd say Kiryienka is a more than adequate replacement for Rogers, and likewise Stannard for Knees.


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## thom (21 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> A nice article, that. I do wonder whether the French have settled into a _chevalier seul_ habit, though.


Isn't part of their problem the funding though ? AG2R and FdJ are both top pro teams but Europcar are not, and I presume none of the 3 have massive budgets like Sky, meaning they wouldn't be able to acquire support riders in quite the same way. I wonder whether Sky will look to France for some new recruits to develop - supporting a French guy to a high place through Paris-Nice, or the Dauphine would certainly be good pr for Sky in france.


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## smutchin (21 Jun 2013)

I've said it before, but I think Rolland has been hanging around Tommy V too long. He needs to get out of Europcar and into a team with GC ambitions if he wants to become anything. Maybe Sky would be a good fit for him.


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## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Isn't part of their problem the funding though ? AG2R and FdJ are both top pro teams but Europcar are not, and I presume none of the 3 have massive budgets like Sky, meaning they wouldn't be able to acquire support riders in quite the same way. I wonder whether Sky will look to France for some new recruits to develop - supporting a French guy to a high place through Paris-Nice, or the Dauphine would certainly be good pr for Sky in france.


Brailsford certainly looks like he's been keeping a close watch on French cycling. And, yes, a French Sky rider would really help garner support in France.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jun 2013)

Though Rolland has some questions to answer regarding some fishy cortisone levels (or similar) @ final stage of Dauphine - according to cycling weekly (TDF edition). 

Froome and Wiggins worked perfectly because Wiggins needed guiding up the mountains and had everyone beat when team mates were not allowed (TT). Froome is the best climber in the team making the Froome/Porte pairing vastly different to last years Sky's final duo. This years team leader is best at both climbing and time trialling. I think the result will see Froome on his own for many of a final climb. Doubt it will phase him though. 

Wiggins needed an expert climber and he got one in Froome. It didn't hurt that he had 2 or 3 other great climbers in there too. The TT was simply something he was world class at already - a must have quality for those with GC aspirations. The quality which appears to have deserted Berti somewhat abruptly, at least at the Dauphine.


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jun 2013)

Hope froome does not win, not only do I not like him I will be out of pocket if he does


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## redcard (22 Jun 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Hope froome does not win, not only do I not like him I will be out of pocket if he does


 

Best hurry up and get that Tarmac sold then, eh


----------



## smutchin (22 Jun 2013)

Taaramae watchers note: he's won his national championship - first in the road race, second to Kangert in the TT. 

Not sure it's much of a sign of anything given the level of competition in Estonia though.


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## Strathlubnaig (22 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Brailsford certainly looks like he's been keeping a close watch on French cycling. And, yes, a French Sky rider would really help garner support in France.


Maybe he should have a parlé with some of the Vacancesoleil riders instead, Aug 1st is not far away.


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## kedab (23 Jun 2013)

it's getting exciting now...t-minus 6 days  i've never been bothered to find out what the T stands for in T minus...much the same as I've never really understood (or been bothered to find out) what the D stood for on D-Day...which is surprising given the number of books i have on ww2. one of which is called D-Day! (written by Antony Beevor, fyi)


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2013)

T stands for Test. D stands for Day. Silly but true.


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## raindog (23 Jun 2013)

"Jour J" in French


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## Noodley (23 Jun 2013)

Arthur Vichot of FDJ won the French road title today so will be wearing the national champion's jersey at the Tour 

There were 5 FDJ riders in the top 10.


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## kedab (23 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> T stands for Test. D stands for Day. Silly but true.


 D-Day (day of days? this is based purely on my obsession with Band of Brothers - the script has Winters saying this at the end of one of the episodes...he died quite recently, Major Richard Winters. What an incredible man he was).

back on topic - Noodley, a French Tour De France winner this year? What you say?


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## Noodley (23 Jun 2013)

kedab said:


> Noodley, a French Tour De France winner this year? What you say?


 
I say "no" but it can't be too far off. lukesdad has been saying for years it'll happen so he's bound to be right one of these years.


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## rich p (23 Jun 2013)

The French haven't got the determination to win a GC - lots of one trick ponies like Pinot, Rolland and Tommy V


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## kedab (23 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> The French haven't got the determination to win a GC - lots of one trick ponies like Pinot, Rolland and Tommy V


hahaha! 'DING DING!'


----------



## Noodley (23 Jun 2013)

FDJ team for the Tour:
Nacer Bouhanni, Murillo Fischer, Jérémy Roy, Pierrick Fédrigo, Thibaut Pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Arthur Vichot, William Bonnet and Arnold Jeannesson


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## oldroadman (23 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Though Rolland has some questions to answer regarding some fishy *cortisone levels* (or similar) @ final stage of Dauphine - according to cycling weekly (TDF edition).
> 
> 
> Froome and Wiggins worked perfectly because Wiggins needed guiding up the mountains and had everyone beat when team mates were not allowed (TT). Froome is the best climber in the team making the Froome/Porte pairing vastly different to last years Sky's final duo. This years team leader is best at both climbing and time trialling. I think the result will see Froome on his own for many of a final climb. Doubt it will phase him though.
> ...


 
_Ramble mode on...._

Cortisol - levels in your body change dramatically if you play with adding cortisone to your system, and then you are out for 8 days for "health" reasons.

Richie Porte will be around on the climbs until it gets down to one on one stuff with the big players, I think. He'll probably be last man to do his stuff and drop off, preceded by Kiryenke (can't spell that, sorry!) doing a big effort keeping the pace high. Then in Spain others will do that for Porte to give him the best chance on the very nasty "Alto" finishes in the last week.
Alberto seems to have lost the TT edge, so he will need to gain in the mountains, which will be a big ask versus Froome.
Provided all the players get safely into the mountains, things should be very interesting, although doubtless some people will accuse Sky of: a) being boring; b) being on some magic stuff that can't be detected; c) having specially round wheels (remember GB/France at the Olympics? ), d) training too much and spoiling the fun for everyone else by making it too hard.
You can't please all the people all the time, just do what you need to do (legally) to win.
_Ramble mode off..._


----------



## smutchin (23 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> The French haven't got the determination to win a GC - lots of one trick ponies like Pinot, Rolland and Tommy V



Pinot might yet turn out to have a bit more in his locker. Needs to work on his TTing though.

At least Démare looks like a green jersey winner in the making.


----------



## rich p (23 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Pinot might yet turn out to have a bit more in his locker. Needs to work on his TTing though.
> 
> At least Démare looks like a green jersey winner in the making.


Yes, I agree! It was a pre-match wind-up really but with an element of truth!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (23 Jun 2013)

oldroadman said:


> _Ramble mode on...._
> 
> Cortisol - levels in your body change dramatically if you play with adding cortisone to your system, and then you are out for 8 days for "health" reasons.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with a good ramble. 

Ah so it is Cortisol. Thanks for clearing that up. It was purely on memory of what CW said. No official report, simply saying what CW wrote in their mag this week. 

It is a touch odd that Sky's supremacy is touted as boring. They have only been dominant for one season and have failed notably in the classics/one day races - this has been scrutinised in the press as we all know. Besides it's up to the rest of the peloton to defeat Sky and if they don't have the answers then it's hardly Sky's fault that no one can match them. Sean Yates mentioned recently that he couldn't believe how Sky were allowed to boss the Tour in 2012. He was mystified as to why there was not more attacks, more disruption. The bunch just allowed Sky to set a tempo and sat in. Such was Sky's dominance, i think. 
It's not impossible that they are on some "magic stuff that can't be detected" as we couldn't know that, but i remain 99% sure that they are one of the cleanest teams in the sport, if not the cleanest. The doubt is merely the shadow cast by the sports mirky history. 
If they are simply training too hard and much better than everyone else then the rest better catch on quick or Sky could be the most dominant team since Molteni or Postal. 
​


----------



## thom (23 Jun 2013)

Kimmage article in the Irish Independent on Dan Martin.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Kimmage article in the Irish Independent on Dan Martin.



Crikey, Uncle Steve doesn't come well out of that!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jun 2013)

User said:


> 2 sides to every story, although I read it as some bitterness from Neil and Maria ...


 
There are at least three sides to this story - Kimmage clearly makes as much as possible in the interview of the Martin family animosity towards Roche, and asks some very leading questions, largely because of his own anti-Roche agenda.


----------



## The Couch (24 Jun 2013)

User said:


> thor hushovd having a little dig at BMC...
> yesterday dropped from the TDF team, todays wins the Norwegian RR
> “Today I demonstrated that I’m in excellent Tour de France form,”
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/hushovd_takes_norwegian_title_after_being_dropped_for_tour/


 
Although his comments/reactions were not pointed to the TdF decision of his team.. I do believe it also spurred Devolder in Belgium
(And by the way, seeing Thomas De Gendt, JVDB and Gilbert getting - deservedly - beaten by "Volderken" in a race which was much more an Ardennes track than a Flemish Ardennes track doesn't bode well for their current form and what to expect from them in the Tour)

By the way, for the people who haven't seen the race, but want to keep informed for people to watch-out for... I was surprised by the strong form that Bakelants and Van Marcke have shown on a track that I would have assumed a bit to hard for them.


----------



## dragon72 (24 Jun 2013)

I really really hope we get a decent Tour this year. 
Sorry Wiggins fans, much as I admired Sky's efficiency in delivering their man to the top of the podium over a TT-heavy parcours, but last year's tour was a bit dull - at least as far as GC was concerned. 
I want to see some proper racing!


----------



## VamP (24 Jun 2013)

Sprint finishes at this Tour going to be quite colourful what with Cav, Sagan and Greipel all wearing national champs jerseys.


----------



## raindog (24 Jun 2013)

this has just been on the national news here
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Jalabert-positif-a-l-epo-en-1998/381138
Jaja positive for EPO in the '98 Tour. Wonder if he'll still be commenting on the telly when this year's Tour kicks off? How is he going to explain this away?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (25 Jun 2013)

raindog said:


> this has just been on the national news here
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Jalabert-positif-a-l-epo-en-1998/381138
> Jaja positive for EPO in the '98 Tour. Wonder if he'll still be commenting on the telly when this year's Tour kic ks off? How is he going to explain this away?


"Je suis sous le choc" he says.... and also "Says he doesn't know if he was given EPO, he trusted his team doctors" (from inrng) either that or a big boy made him do it and then ran away.


----------



## raindog (25 Jun 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> "he trusted his team doctors"


that'll do as well as any other, I suppose


----------



## thom (25 Jun 2013)

Cav says : "I couldn't give a toss about the people going for the yellow jersey." (amongst other things).


----------



## smutchin (25 Jun 2013)

I FCKNGLV Cav.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (25 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Cav says : "I couldn't give a toss about the people going for the yellow jersey." (amongst other things).


Like this, from the same article: "I've worn the leader's jersey in the Vuelta and the Giro; I haven't worn the yellow jersey yet so I'd like to do that. It's a big, big goal," he said.


----------



## raindog (25 Jun 2013)

_"This year the Tour includes a flat stage in *Sardinia* for its opener"_
trust the bloody Guardian_  _


----------



## jdtate101 (25 Jun 2013)

I'm betting Cav really does care about getting that Stage 1 win and donning the Yellow. As most tdf's start with a TT prologue this is about the only chance he will have to wear the yellow, so he will be super motivated. The stage is tailor made for a big bunch sprint and Cav always seems to rise to the occasion when needed. I really hope he does it.


----------



## thom (25 Jun 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> I'm betting Cav really does care about getting that Stage 1 win and donning the Yellow. As most tdf's start with a TT prologue this is about the only chance he will have to wear the yellow, so he will be super motivated. The stage is tailor made for a big bunch sprint and Cav always seems to rise to the occasion when needed. I really hope he does it.


Aye, that's actually what he said in the rest of the article ;-)


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> I'm betting Cav really does care about getting that Stage 1 win and donning the Yellow.


 
It's interesting that he's not going in for his usual sandbagging - "It would be nice to wear the yellow but it's not my main goal." Clearly, he's confident and fancies his chances. And if his form in the Giro is anything to go by, who would bet against him?



> I really hope he does it.


 
+1

I was trying to recall if any other Brits have worn all three jerseys, then I remembered that Wiggo has, so Cav won't be the first to reach that milestone, but I wonder if he could become the first to wear all three in the same year...


----------



## VamP (25 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Aye, that's actually what he said in the rest of the article ;-)


 
It must get tiresome when you're green jersey contender and journos keep asking about the GC like it's somehow more important.

I can't imagine anyone not wanting to wear yellow even just for that one day, regardless of their main focus.


----------



## jdtate101 (25 Jun 2013)

So Cav's done the TdF green, the Giro Red...only the Vuelta points Jersey is missing (not sure of the colour). Along with his Worlds and freshly won National it seems there's not much left not on his palmares. I'd love him to go grab the Vuelta one in 2014.

Question...has anyone ever previously won all three grande tour points Jerseys?????

Oh and the all time TdF stage count still beckons......(which still belongs to Merckx I think?)


----------



## smutchin (25 Jun 2013)

Wake up at the back!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-jersey-as-Vincenzo-Nibali-takes-overall.html

He's the fifth rider to have won all three, though I wonder if Jaja might retroactively have his Giro title stripped in light of recent revelations...


----------



## zizou (25 Jun 2013)

Nice little feature on the Tour at 100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23028684



jdtate101 said:


> So Cav's done the TdF green, the Giro Red...only the Vuelta points Jersey is missing (not sure of the colour). Along with his Worlds and freshly won National it seems there's not much left not on his palmares. I'd love him to go grab the Vuelta one in 2014.


 
He won the Vuelta points in 2010.


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## beastie (25 Jun 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> So Cav's done the TdF green, the Giro Red...only the Vuelta points Jersey is missing (not sure of the colour). Along with his Worlds and freshly won National it seems there's not much left not on his palmares. I'd love him to go grab the Vuelta one in 2014.
> 
> Question...has anyone ever previously won all three grande tour points Jerseys?????
> 
> Oh and the all time TdF stage count still beckons......(which still belongs to Merckx I think?)


Em.. he won the Vuelta points classification 2 year ago.


----------



## oldroadman (25 Jun 2013)

Amongst all this jersey talk, anyone prepared to take 250/1 on Cav winning a climber's jersey, anywhere, in a GT or 2.HC? Thought not...about 1% chance of winning the lottery!


----------



## raindog (25 Jun 2013)

User said:


> Jalabert quits as Tour pundit


It was difficult to see how he could carry on. I wonder who will replace him? Cedric Vasseur, maybe.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (25 Jun 2013)

According to the following link, Pinerello have a new areo road frame set which they are trying get sanctioned by the UCi before the Tdf


http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/tour-de-france-kit-being-assessed-by-uci-37723/


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## thom (25 Jun 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> According to the following link, Pinerello have a new areo road frame set which they are trying get sanctioned by the UCi before the Tdf


Love it - everyone who went out and bought a dogma will be gutted ;-)


----------



## yello (25 Jun 2013)

Wind (parp) could well be a factor on Saturday. It gets fair blowy on that Corsican coast.


----------



## raindog (26 Jun 2013)

We had a great programme last night celebrating 100 years of the Tour
http://pluzz.francetv.fr/videos/la_legende_du_tour_de_france_,84284518.html
amazing footage of early races. Don't know if it will work outside of France though. A brilliant bit showing a teenage Anquetil training on an old dropped bar bike with mudguards! It's in two parts.


----------



## The Couch (26 Jun 2013)

raindog said:


> We had a great programme last night celebrating 100 years of the Tour
> http://pluzz.francetv.fr/videos/la_legende_du_tour_de_france_,84284518.html
> amazing footage of early races. Don't know if it will work outside of France though. A brilliant bit showing a teenage Anquetil training on an old dropped bar bike with mudguards! It's in two parts.


 
I think we probably had the same program on Belgian tv (last week we had part 1, this week we had part 2)... with us it was called "de giganten van de Tour" (= the Giants of the Tour).

Nice images indeed of "ancient" stages/cyclists and I liked watching it
... still you could feel/see that it was "French made"... focusing quite some on the best (and/or most popular) French riders (or at least focusing on the competitors of those French riders).
No mention of Bahamontes, Van Impe, ... (but I understand you can't focus on all the greats)
Finishing with the image of Voeckler as the "hope of the French future" or "the example of non-doped racing" or "whatever the hell they wanted to say with it" was a bit weird to me. (Having all these champions seen passing by and then end with showing somebody who is not in that league)


----------



## raindog (26 Jun 2013)

The Couch said:


> ... still you could feel/see that it was "French made"... focusing quite some on the best (and/or most popular) French riders (or at least focusing on the competitors of those French riders).
> No mention of Bahamontes, Van Impe, ... (but I understand you can't focus on all the greats)


LOL - yes, that's true in a way, now you mention it, but then it _is_ a French race after all. No Charly Gaul or Stephen Roche either, but I doubt there was time to simply make a list of every winner/climber. I stopped watching part 2 when they got to 1990 - I really can't stand to see anything about the EPO era anymore. Loved the old archive footage though - imagine how much film must exist and how much will never see the light of day.


----------



## perplexed (26 Jun 2013)

I can't believe, with the raft of knowledge and skill present on cyclechat, that not a single poster has thus far addressed the most important aspect of the whole shebang.

We need a press release from Sky, that should Mr. Froome win the Tour, on absolutley no account will Lesley Garrett be allowed within 100 miles of Paris.


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2013)

However, should Mr Froome win the Tour, I would be quite happy for him to use his fame to publicise his lifelong love of Krautrock, be photographed hanging out in nightclubs with members of Can, Neu! and Kraftwerk, and start his own clothing line of neoprene neon suits.


----------



## thom (26 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> However, should Mr Froome win the Tour, I would be quite happy for him to use his fame to publicise his lifelong love of Krautrock, be photographed hanging out in nightclubs with members of Can, Neu! and Kraftwerk, and start his own clothing line of neoprene neon suits.


 
OK then, here you go :


----------



## lukesdad (26 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I say "no" but it can't be too far off. lukesdad has been saying for years it'll happen so he's bound to be right one of these years.


Now yer just telling porkies yer big Jock nobber! Have you moved yet coz I need to realign my water rocket guidance system.


----------



## mrbadexample (26 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's the fifth rider to have won all three, though I wonder if Jaja might retroactively have his Giro title stripped in light of recent revelations...


 

Abdou wasn't exactly squeaky-clean either. 

Is there anyone with more Grand Tour stage wins in a season than Petacchi (15 in 2003)? Or more than his 9 in a single Grand Tour (Giro 2004)?


----------



## thom (26 Jun 2013)

mrbadexample said:


> Is there anyone with more Grand Tour stage wins in a season than Petacchi (15 in 2003)? Or more than his 9 in a single Grand Tour (Giro 2004)?


Interesting questions, partial answers:
Freddy Maertens, 1977 Vuelta - 13 stage wins apparently
In the tour, Merckx (1970 & 1974), Maertens (1976) & Pelissier (1930) have won 8 in a single year
Alfredo Binda won 12 stages of the Giro in 1927. In 1929 he won 8 in a row out of a total of 11 that he won in the pink jersey.

All this info is according to the internet - wikipedia & yahoo, not my personal knowledge...


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2013)

Wonder what odds I'll get on that Sanchez stage win...


----------



## andrew_s (26 Jun 2013)

Freddy Maertens won 13 stages, points and the overall in the 1977 Vuelta, and 7 stages at the 1977 Giro


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## mrbadexample (26 Jun 2013)

andrew_s said:


> Freddy Maertens won 13 stages, points and the overall in the 1977 Vuelta, and 7 stages at the 1977 Giro


 

Ruddy hell.


----------



## mrbadexample (26 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Alfredo Binda won 12 stages of the Giro in 1927. In 1929 he won 8 in a row out of a total of 11 that he won in the pink jersey.


 

That's some record. No wonder they asked him not to turn up in 1930.


----------



## thom (27 Jun 2013)

Woof woof !


----------



## cd365 (27 Jun 2013)

mrbadexample said:


> That's some record. No wonder they asked him not to turn up in 1930.


 
I googled that, paid not to compete in 1930 so tried the Tour De France where he won two stages, legend


----------



## The Couch (27 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Woof woof !


 
That's quite a punch he has
(and quite a crappy choice of music put onto it)


----------



## Strathlubnaig (28 Jun 2013)

Did this appear elsewhere ? Not sure, feel free to move / remove, but had to share. "Un chute incroyable !!!"


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Jun 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Did this appear elsewhere ? Not sure, feel free to move / remove, but had to share. "Un chute incroyable !!!"


That clip doesn't really show (unless you've got really quick reflexes at the very beginning of the race sequence) how he was looking backwards as he approached the furniture. Nevertheless it was still a nasty crash when it happened.


----------



## Boris Bajic (28 Jun 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Without Froome as the odds on favourite it would be really wide open.


 
I'm not a gambler, but it would (will) be amusing to see what happens to the odds if Froome suffers an early injury or abandons for illness or some other reason...


----------



## VamP (28 Jun 2013)

...or just loses 2 minutes to a crash in week 1.


----------



## jdtate101 (28 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Woof woof !





Love that clip of him vs cobo. You can see him tell the fat boy spectator in the green top to move..."I'm going right NOW" and boom he's off. Yes he does get caught at the top by cobo, but still manages to win the stage with some clever inside overtaking.


----------



## Noodley (28 Jun 2013)

Just seen FDJ photo shoot - I am so gonna have to get myself a FDJ blue cycling top


----------



## raindog (28 Jun 2013)

My internet went on the blink last night, so I didn't see the presentation, so if someone could provide a link to the FDJ and Cav's national jerseys......

And try and watch the start of tomorrow's stage - they pass by Bonifacio - spent a few days there some years ago - amazing place - the helicopter shots should be be pretty interesting.


----------



## kedab (28 Jun 2013)

i am this >


----------



## fossyant (28 Jun 2013)

Just watched the Wiggo Tour round up on ITV4. Whoop. Mussus out tomorrow eve so I am hogging the telly all afternoon.


----------



## Noodley (28 Jun 2013)

I'm taking bets on how long it is before someone posts that "this Tour is boring"...


----------



## laurence (28 Jun 2013)

raindog said:


> My internet went on the blink last night, so I didn't see the presentation,* so if someone could provide a link to the FDJ* and Cav's national jerseys......
> 
> And try and watch the start of tomorrow's stage - they pass by Bonifacio - spent a few days there some years ago - amazing place - the helicopter shots should be be pretty interesting.


 
from the letour.com site...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Jun 2013)

laurence said:


> from the letour.com site...


that is a better looking jersey now for sure.


----------



## lukesdad (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I'm taking bets on how long it is before someone posts that "this Tour is boring"...


I'm already bored after 11 pages of spoilers what nobber started it so early ?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Noodles i had £100 on today before 8am mind. 

I'll take paypal gift or hard cash.


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

- no coverage until 11:30, who started this so early, eh?!


----------



## lejogger (29 Jun 2013)

Is it just me? Or is everyone else really really really REALLY flipping excited?!!!

Cav in yellow tonight??! 

It might give me a lump in my throat...

...I mean trousers...

...no, throat.


----------



## david k (29 Jun 2013)

ha, ha lejogger

yes im really excited,  its as if summer has started.when TdF begins. ................until i look outside


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Can't wait! 

I think Cav will start stage 2 in Yellow and Sagan will then have the Yellow until stage 4 - the 25k TT.

From there, who knows..................


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

My son has a classmate called Dan Martin who, at last night's school sports awards ceremony, received his full colours for cycling. If I were a superstitious kind of chap, I could read something into that.

Sounds like the kid is a decent prospect. Does a sub-30 10 - may not be quite Wiggo levels of prodigiousness but is pretty good for a 15yo. Who knows? Maybe he'll go on to be the new Dan Martin. Or something.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> My son has a classmate called Dan Martin who, at last night's school sports awards ceremony, received his full colours for cycling. If I were a superstitious kind of chap, I could read something into that.
> 
> Sounds like the kid is a decent prospect. Does a sub-30 10 - may not be quite Wiggo levels of prodigiousness but is pretty good for a 15yo. Who knows? Maybe he'll go on to be the new Dan Martin. Or something.


A 12 year old (a members son) joined us on one of our club confined 10 TT's and he knocked out a 30 minute flat. 

Skinny little bugger maybe got a motor in his rear hub.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

On live now on ITV4.


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

a bike change for the froomedog in the neutralized zone...that's got to be his bad luck out the way early.
right then, it's about to be ON! catch you all later. enjoy it everyone


----------



## yello (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Just seen FDJ photo shoot - I am so gonna have to get myself a FDJ blue cycling top


 
I want an Arthur Vichot wig.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Unbelievable! Ned Boulting has just confirmed my worst fears - Uncle Phil and his Monkey, Sherwen, will be commentating on ITV4 coverage.

Disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful.


----------



## VamP (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> My son has a classmate called Dan Martin who, at last night's school sports awards ceremony, received his full colours for cycling. If I were a superstitious kind of chap, I could read something into that.
> 
> Sounds like the kid is a decent prospect. Does a sub-30 10 - may not be quite Wiggo levels of prodigiousness but is pretty good for a 15yo. Who knows? Maybe he'll go on to be the new Dan Martin. Or something.



There's a 16 year old in our club who can knock out a long 24 on our fairly lumpy course - on a road bike!


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Unbelievable! Ned Boulting has just confirmed my worst fears - Uncle Phil and his Monkey, Sherwen, will be commentating on ITV4 coverage.
> 
> Disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful.


aye - my heart sank when he mentioned that pair  just let the imlach and his boys do the whole thing. I shall mute the telly and stick the radio coverage on.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

kedab said:


> I shall mute the telly and stick the radio coverage on.


 
What radio coverage is there?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

We have Sean Kelly on Ooooorosport though!


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Unbelievable! Ned Boulting has just confirmed my worst fears - Uncle Phil and his Monkey, Sherwen, will be commentating on ITV4 coverage.
> 
> Disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful.


It's not them now though. Is this just a temporary reprieve from their dribble then


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> It's not them now though. Is this just a temporary reprieve from their dribble then


 
I'm afraid that the Imlach/Boardman/Rendell witterings, which I enjoy, are only a temporary measure until the Lance Armstrong Fan Club arrive to talk us through the Tour Guidebook to castles, mis-identify riders and talk bollocks.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Sherwen (in stilted tones): "and this is the chateau de fromage, built in 1843 by the Comte of <mispronounced name> for his mistress and his illegitimate children. He later got his knob chopped off in a battle..."
Uncle Phil (completely too excitedly): "And it was near here that Lance Armstrong did something one year, I can't remember what it was but it was something. And there's some rider in a white top, I think it might be Mark Cavendish of Team Sky in his national champions colours...no, no, it's actually a field of sheep...anyway, Lance was some rider, eh?"


----------



## Speicher (29 Jun 2013)

From your description of Leggitt and Surewan, I think I much prefer Sean Kelly, he knows what he is talking about. Carlton Kirby is also good, from my point of view.


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Do you think Matt Rendell is thinking of writing a book on Cav? I hope not, his Pantani one was fairly impenetrable.


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

Get Eurosport you cheapskates. It's a minimum requirement for the cycling afficionado, like wot I am.


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

How dare you dis Phil and Paul. 

You cant understand Kelly


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

OH FFS the nobbery has commenced. 

They have kicked it off by chatting about Cav wearing a skinsuit...it's gonna be a long haul listening to these nobbers


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

We're off. Shall we dedicate a thread solely to these two buffoons. That's rhetorical. I'm off to start it.


----------



## StuAff (29 Jun 2013)

I am a cheapskate. 

Every time Gary Imlach and co do commentary it just highlights how dreadful the Phil and Paul show is. The three of them managed, somehow, not to mention this chateau or that chateau or the cheeses of the region or repeat themselves endlessly. Informed analysis and discussion...No, they're not perfect by any means, but by heck they're better than the two nobbers.

But now the dreadful duo are back on


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

You miserable gits..


----------



## theloafer (29 Jun 2013)

StuAff said:


> I am a cheapskate.
> 
> Every time Gary Imlach and co do commentary it just highlights how dreadful the Phil and Paul show is. The three of them managed, somehow, not to mention this chateau or that chateau or the cheeses of the region or repeat themselves endlessly. Informed analysis and discussion...No, they're not perfect by any means, but by heck they're better than the two nobbers.
> 
> But now the dreadful duo are back on


 
eurosport link here... 
http://www.sportlemon.tv/20130627/vv51cb6fd857cce6.46027618-598971.html


----------



## StuAff (29 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> You miserable gits..


Oh look, they're talking history again. Yes, I know they get one live feed and it would be daft to not mention at all whatever the chopper's focusing on instead of, oh, for example, cyclists, but they don't need to devote their time to spewing out vast chunks of the TdF press pack. 

Bulls**t bingo is the only way to survive them...


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

I emailed ITV several months ago telling them that it would be a disgrace to have the muppets on commentary after their shameful championing of Armstrong but it seems that they have ignored me. What a cheek.


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> I emailed ITV several months ago telling them that it would be a disgrace to have the muppets on commentary after their shameful championing of Armstrong but it seems that they have ignored me. What a cheek.



Who are you..


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Sean Kellys commentary. ...

Blah blah mumble mumble


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

I have just posted a message on ITV4 Facebook page: "An absolute disgrace that Liggett and Sherwen are commentating on the ITV4 coverage of the Tour." I wonder if they'll delete it?


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> Who are you..


I'm claiming the moral high-ground, which is where Napoleon built a fort and dug deep from his suitcase of courage...


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I have just posted a message on ITV4 Facebook page: "An absolute disgrace that Liggett and Sherwen are commentating on the ITV4 coverage of the Tour." I wonder if they'll delete it?



I hope you haven't been ordering Domino's pizza. Has Matthew_T hacked your account ?


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> You cant understand Kelly



Pffft. I used to have a colleague from rural western Ireland who was *much* more difficult to understand.


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

anyone in da room?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (29 Jun 2013)

Doesn't Corsica look shoot.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

One bonus - Halfords are not sponsoring ITV4 coverage this year so no "tour de francis" to endure


----------



## threebikesmcginty (29 Jun 2013)

Is Cav's bike army surplus?


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

It's as ugly as that Spesh Venge someone was selling in Classifieds recently


----------



## rich p (29 Jun 2013)

BTW, @Noodley, I think it's a shame that FdJ have got rid of the white jersey


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Just on Euro sport commentry. Even they were spouting crap about a field of cows...


----------



## threebikesmcginty (29 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> Just on Euro sport commentry. Even they were spouting crap about a field of cows...



Oooo what sort of cows?


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> BTW, @Noodley, I think it's a shame that FdJ have got rid of the white jersey


 
I love the blue jersey. Had a search on the Decathlon site but they dinnae sell it. Hopefully they will at some point as I deffo want one.


----------



## jarlrmai (29 Jun 2013)

dat peleton pace!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> dat peleton pace!


And now they've slowed again. Peloton's flat nosed.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

I hope they get the Orica bus out of the way....


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Hoogerland down


----------



## Chutzpah (29 Jun 2013)

The Orica Greenedge team bus has hit the finishing banner..... Oops


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

These banners are lethal


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

More down. Bloody advertising hoarding


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

FFS.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

Do Orica win the race then?


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Nobber driver


----------



## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Still stuck


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

No chance of moving that


----------



## Nearly there (29 Jun 2013)

What a disaster how will they know when to sprint?


----------



## StuAff (29 Jun 2013)

Not what's supposed to be meant by parking the bus....


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

Have they let its tyres down, I wonder.


----------



## Chutzpah (29 Jun 2013)

I can't wait for the Orica Greenedge Backstage Pass video on YouTube for this stage....


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

The 3km to go mark does not look ideal...!!!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

feck, the finish is now right at a bend!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

God this is painful to listen to.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Pile Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

SAGAN!


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Sagan down


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

Sagan and Cav down. But are they in the last 3 kms?

EDIT: 3km from the 3km mark now gets the same time. Apparently.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

And Greipel out.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

Griepel!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

Predict a sprint pile-up


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Could Bouhanni take the first yellow???


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

Wouldn't put it past him.


----------



## Nearly there (29 Jun 2013)

EBH still in here


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Absolute chaos and Kittel had to be favourite there


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Jun 2013)

If every day is like this, there won't be enough men left to fill a podium.


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

Contador loses time? Or does he? That was a farce.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

No sign of Bouhanni in the sprint so he may have been involved in one of the pile-ups


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Total chaos! Highly entertaining first day. 

Hope no one pulls out through injury though.


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

Pleased for Kittel. And schadenfreude over Goss's mechanical that kept him out of the sprint. farking stupid Aussies.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (29 Jun 2013)

What kind of professional driver does not know the height of his vehicle, what an idiot... 
What a complete farse, very disapointed


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Looking at the overhead shot, it was a perfectly timed and executed finish from Kittel.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Goss's mechanical that kept him out of the sprint. f***ing stupid Aussies.


 
Perhaps the mechanic is the coach drivers brother.


----------



## montage (29 Jun 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> What kind of professional driver does not know the height of his vehicle, what an idiot...
> What a complete farse, very disapointed


 

Whoever set up the finishing banner may well be to blame.
Either way...morons. Should have used the amended finish line once that call was made, terrible management decision.


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Which OPQS rider was it that went down and caused the spill?


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

Chava, I think.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Pleased for Kittel. And schadenfreude over Goss's mechanical that kept him out of the sprint. f***ing stupid Aussies.


I missed what happened to Goss, only saw him wobbling around the last bend.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Which OPQS rider was it that went down and caused the spill?


 
Surely Phil ID'ed him? No?


----------



## beastie (29 Jun 2013)

What a shambles.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Bouhanni was involved in the later pile-up, hence his absence from the sprint.


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

montage said:


> Whoever set up the finishing banner may well be to blame.
> Either way...morons.



It's really stupid that vehicles not directly involved in the race go through the finish line. But given that they do, you'd have thought this possibility would have been predicted.


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I missed what happened to Goss, only saw him wobbling around the last bend.



No idea, tbh. First they said mechanical, then they said crash. Don't care. Just glad the Aussie nitwit was taken out of the race.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's really stupid that vehicles not directly involved in the race go through the finish line. But given that they do, you'd have thought this possibility would have been predicted.


And you'd have thought the bus driver wouldn't have driven into a space that was small for the vehicle.


----------



## TVC (29 Jun 2013)

I'm sure Cav will be very understanding and sanguin about the whole thing.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> No idea, tbh. First they said mechanical, then they said crash. Don't care. Just glad the Aussie nitwit was taken out of the race.


When he comes round the corner it looked like the front wheel was already juddering and looked like he was unclipping because he didn't have control of the front end.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Which OPQS rider was it that went down and caused the spill?


Kwiatowski i think.

EDIT: Griepel caused it according to Magnus.


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Looks like whoever went down for OPQS, had his handlebars caught and taken away.


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

total carnage - loved it - noodley, i haven't looked yet but i'm fairly sure that one of the 5 live xtra type radio stations cover the grand tours although i'm not sure who with...aside from all that, get a load of D Millar 'avin it large in the sprint finish


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

They just showed a replay and it's Greipel squeezing through the gap that takes the OPQS rider out. 

Reports on twitter say everyone gets the same time.


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Kwiatowski i think.
> 
> EDIT: Griepel caused it according to Magnus.


Looks like Greipel on the replay, caught the bars as he squeezed through.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Looks like Greipel on the replay, caught the bars as he squeezed through.


Yeh squeezed through a gap that no one else could see.


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Looks like Greipel on the replay, caught the bars as he squeezed through.


the big fatty


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

19yo Danny Van Poppel 3rd!


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2013)

Tony Martin out with a broken collarbone, from the sound of it. Geraint Thomas being checked out at hospital.


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

Thomas has gone for an x-ray and Dave Brailsford has been doing some shopping for him online


----------



## jarlrmai (29 Jun 2013)

I had to leave to get the train for my sportive so I mixed all the chaos, I keep giggling uncontrollably when I think of that bus driver though.


----------



## tiswas-steve (29 Jun 2013)

Is Greenedge part sponsored by Specsavers ?


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

ooh that was a very unhappy cav'


----------



## Chutzpah (29 Jun 2013)

According to Ned Boulting, the finish line barrier is lowered as the race approaches and vehicles start getting deviated before the finish line. However, for some reason the Greenedge coach was waved through *after* the barrier had been lowered. A bit embarrassing for the organisers. I guess as a driver in unfamiliar towns you just rely on officials telling you where to go.


----------



## raindog (29 Jun 2013)

Marc Madiot has just been ranting and raving and waving his arms about, complaining about the finish line being chopped and changed a few ks from the line. 
Even with race radios, a lot of riders didn't understand WTF was going on.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

raindog said:


> Marc Madiot has just been ranting and raving and waving his arms about, complaining about the finish line being chopped and changed a few ks from the line.
> Even with race radios, a lot of riders didn't understand WTF was going on.


Van Poppel learned about the temporary change of finish line in a post race interview.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Van Poppel learned about the temporary change of finish line in a post race interview.


 
Sounds like Kittel knew nothing about the temporary change either.


----------



## Milzy (29 Jun 2013)

It was awesome!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

Tomorrow's going to be boring after that!


----------



## gavroche (29 Jun 2013)

When is Phil Leggett going to get the French flag colours right? Every year he goes on about red white and blue. It is Blue White and red!! Ask any frenchman and he will confirm. 65 million frenchmen can't be wrong!


----------



## raindog (29 Jun 2013)

The Bus now has a twitter account 
https://twitter.com/search?q=#TDF&src=hash


----------



## montage (29 Jun 2013)

So did Thomas finish the stage?


----------



## zizou (29 Jun 2013)

That was an omnishambles if ever there was one. I dont get the idea that it was entertaining viewing either - it ruined the stage. Getting stuck behind a crash is part of racing but for it to happen in that manner just made the finish a farce! Not taking anything away from Kittel i like him as a rider and he has a decent record against Cavendish so it wouldnt have been a foregone conclusion had the crash not happened.

btw looking at the slow mo a couple of riders got very lucky, so close to hitting the lampost with the heads or neck as they fell


----------



## Crackle (29 Jun 2013)

montage said:


> So did Thomas finish the stage?


yes


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

zizou said:


> That was an omnishambles if ever there was one. I dont get the idea that it was entertaining viewing either - it ruined the stage. Getting stuck behind a crash is part of racing but for it to happen in that manner just made the finish a farce! Not taking anything away from Kittel i like him as a rider and he has a decent record against Cavendish so it wouldnt have been a foregone conclusion had the crash not happened.
> 
> btw looking at the slow mo a couple of riders got very lucky, so close to hitting the lampost with the heads or neck as they fell


i don't see how it ruined the stage? it changed the stage yeh, but ruined it? as you said, crashes are racing and it happens. it was unfortunate for many of those that went down and certainly stressful for the likes of Cav' but ruined is a bit strong. listening to the riders post-race, some knew of the stuck bus, some didn't. kittel didn't and he just raced, whereas listening to cav who did know, you can tell it upset him...that's a perfect case in point for getting rid of race radios in my humble opinion.


----------



## montage (29 Jun 2013)

Chris Froome tweeted that Geriant will be riding tomorrow


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

One thing which annoys me (I know, surprising to find that I am annoyed by anything...) is that every time "something happens" in a bike race people post on forums that it's a "farce" or that it devalues the race/stage. It's a fecking bike race, "things" happen, that are all part of the race. Including people crashing, the organisation getting things wrong, some German twat jumping up and down in a red suit. They all add to the race, almost as much as when richp says he remembers riding a bit of road when he was touring the area in the 90s and that he stopped at a bar where a young maiden made a move on him which he had to decline as he was very drunk and did not want to disappoint her in the sack, FM claiming that he's been following the stage winner's career ever since he came 5th in a local race in Sweden in 2006, nobbers speaking about strangely shaped chainrings, Froomedawg's g/f tweeting something, and me calling them all nobbers, etc etc


----------



## zizou (29 Jun 2013)

kedab said:


> i don't see how it ruined the stage? it changed the stage yeh, but ruined it? as you said, crashes are racing and it happens. it was unfortunate for many of those that went down and certainly stressful for the likes of Cav' but ruined is a bit strong. listening to the riders post-race, some knew of the stuck bus, some didn't. kittel didn't and he just raced, whereas listening to cav who did know, you can tell it upset him...that's a perfect case in point for getting rid of race radios in my humble opinion.


 
It ruined the race because with teams thinking the finish was 3 k earlier than anticipated it created a panic to get riders in position (not just the sprint teams but the GC teams too) and they were using up riders from their train too early for the actual finish. 

It would have changed the whole complexion of the race, even if there had not been a crash. The same of course also applies to if the finish had been 3k to go and some teams and riders did not know about it.

The first week of the tour is bad enough for crashes without this sort of stuff adding to the mix.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

It didn't ruin it at all. Stop being a flouncey blouse.


----------



## zizou (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> One thing which annoys me (I know, surprising to find that I am annoyed by anything...) is that every time "something happens" in a bike race people post on forums that it's a "farce" or that it devalues the race/stage. It's a fecking bike race, "things" happen, that are all part of the race. Including people crashing, the organisation getting things wrong, some German twat jumping up and down in a red suit. They all add to the race, almost as much as when richp says he remembers riding a bit of road when he was touring the area in the 90s and that he stopped at a bar where a young maiden made a move on him which he had to decline as he was very drunk and did not want to disappoint her in the sack, FM claiming that he's been following the stage winner's career ever since he came 5th in a local race in Sweden in 2006, nobbers speaking about strangely shaped chainrings, Froomedawg's g/f tweeting something, and me calling them all nobbers, etc etc


 
Changing the finish line with about 10 k to go then changing it back again with about 4 k to go and some riders/teams knowing about this and some not knowing cannot IMO be dismissed as just another part of the character of the race!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> One thing which annoys me (I know, surprising to find that I am annoyed by anything...) is that every time "something happens" in a bike race people post on forums that it's a "farce" or that it devalues the race/stage. It's a fecking bike race, "things" happen, that are all part of the race. Including people crashing, the organisation getting things wrong, some German twat jumping up and down in a red suit. They all add to the race, almost as much as when richp says he remembers riding a bit of road when he was touring the area in the 90s and that he stopped at a bar where a young maiden made a move on him which he had to decline as he was very drunk and did not want to disappoint her in the sack, FM claiming that he's been following the stage winner's career ever since he came 5th in a local race in Sweden in 2006, nobbers speaking about strangely shaped chainrings, Froomedawg's g/f tweeting something, and me calling them all nobbers, etc etc


Amen. The unpredictability of bike racing is what makes it the best sport in the world!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (29 Jun 2013)

I thought the ending was great, just a shame Cavendish got caught in the crash, really wanted to see him in yellow tomorrow.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Have they let its tyres down, I wonder.


I can't believe it took them so long to figure that one out! It was a one minute problem.



> A. Thomas-Commin @a_thomas_commin
> 
> Le bus a reculé après le dégonflage des pneus. twitter.com/a_thomas_commi…


 
(The bus reversed after deflating the tyres)


----------



## Monsieur Remings (29 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I can't believe it took them so long to figure that one out! It was a one minute problem.
> 
> 
> 
> (The bus reversed after deflating the tyres)


 

I thought the Orica Green-Edge mechanics were seriously slow seeing to that mechanical, all in all the team would have been better off with a coach change from the off.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (29 Jun 2013)

Looks like tony Martin is relatively ok (no breaks) although nasty cut reported on his elbow so unsure if he is still going to carry on tomorrow


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Jun 2013)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Looks like tony Martin is relatively ok (no breaks) although nasty cut reported on his elbow so unsure if he is still going to carry on tomorrow


Reports were of a broken collar bone and retirement from race!!?? Is this wrong?? He did seem to be able to walk about fine which i thought odd at the time.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Jun 2013)

shoot happens. Offshore we call such things a 'dynamic situation' and try to deal with change on te fly, everybody did as well as expected under the circumstances, it was fun and interesting to watch, and no one lost time.


----------



## david k (29 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Reports were of a broken collar bone and retirement from race!!?? Is this wrong?? He did seem to be able to walk about fine which i thought odd at the time.


 
it said in ITV he is out of the race with a broken collarbone Pedrosanchezo


----------



## benborp (29 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I can't believe it took them so long to figure that one out! It was a one minute problem.
> 
> 
> 
> (The bus reversed after deflating the tyres)


 

To be fair, it wasn't just an issue of getting the coach out. The banner is on a mechanised gantry that raises and lowers to allow access for Tour vehicles. Parts of it are pretty beefy but the coach was in effect carrying the gantry on it's roof. Just getting the coach out could have led to complete destruction of the Tour's finish line on the first day. It doesn't look like the kind of kit that you can just pick up at the local plant hire. There's a picture here that gives a better view.


----------



## Mista Preston (29 Jun 2013)

So who going to win tomorrow then looks a bit hilly for Cav?


----------



## Monsieur Remings (29 Jun 2013)

The real problem tomorrow will be finding a yellow jersey big enough for a coach, let alone what happens if a rival team coach goes for an intermediate or one or other of the KOM classification points.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

benborp said:


> To be fair, it wasn't just an issue of getting the coach out. The banner is on a mechanised gantry that raises and lowers to allow access for Tour vehicles. Parts of it are pretty beefy but the coach was in effect carrying the gantry on it's roof. Just getting the coach out could have led to complete destruction of the Tour's finish line on the first day. It doesn't look like the kind of kit that you can just pick up at the local plant hire. There's a picture here that gives a better view.


The only damage I know of was that the photo finish camera had been broken so that the result had to be judged by eye.


> Une première conséquence a été que le matériel permettant de réaliser la photo-finish a été cassé. C'est donc à l'ancienne, à l'oeil, qu'a été jugée la victoire de Marcel Kittel.


 
And the tweet said: ''Le bus a reculé après le dégonflage des pneus.'' not, for example, ''Le bus a reculé après le soutien du portique et le dégonflage des pneus.'' But you may have more info then I do - all I know was that the solution was the same solution as I had posted earlier.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (29 Jun 2013)

david k said:


> it said in ITV he is out of the race with a broken collarbone Pedrosanchezo



http://www.omegapharma-quickstep.com/en/news/show/injury-update-tony-martin/1297

I'm following them on Twitter lol


----------



## Andy_R (29 Jun 2013)

david k said:


> it said in ITV he is out of the race with a broken collarbone Pedrosanchezo


"_A decision on whether Martin will continue in the race will be taken on Sunday, his team said. _
_ "He has a concussion and a contusion on his left lung. He also has soft tissue damages on his hip, chest, left knee and shoulder, and also on his back. Furthermore, he has a very deep wound 5cm wide on his left elbow that reaches his muscles, which causes a lot of pain and a problem moving his arm," said a spokesman_."

Edit: crossposted with above...too slow


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Andy_R said:


> "_A decision on whether Martin will continue in the race will be taken on Sunday, his team said. _
> _ "He has a concussion and a contusion on his left lung. He also has soft tissue damages on his hip, chest, left knee and shoulder, and also on his back. Furthermore, he has a very deep wound 5cm wide on his left elbow that reaches his muscles, which causes a lot of pain and a problem moving his arm," said a spokesman_."
> 
> Edit: crossposted with above...too slow


 
Ach, he'll be fine...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jun 2013)

Andy_R said:


> "_A decision on whether Martin will continue in the race will be taken on Sunday, his team said. _
> _ "He has a concussion and a contusion on his left lung. He also has soft tissue damages on his hip, chest, left knee and shoulder, and also on his back. Furthermore, he has a very deep wound 5cm wide on his left elbow that reaches his muscles, which causes a lot of pain and a problem moving his arm," said a spokesman_."
> 
> Edit: crossposted with above...too slow


Lumme, he's going to feel awful in the morning. With a list of injuries that long you could fill a whole row of A&E seats.


----------



## Milzy (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Ach, he'll be fine...


 
I'd like to think I was tough but with that lot I'd prob say sod it, imagine another off like that carrying those injuries. Plus I think the pain would sap his performance.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> I'd like to think I was tough but with that lot I'd prob say sod it, imagine another off like that carrying those injuries. Plus I think the pain would sap his performance.


 
I was being flippant.


----------



## kedab (29 Jun 2013)

has he not heard of rule #5 - the big flouncy flouncing flouncer


----------



## Kiwiavenger (29 Jun 2013)

It's nothing, lol I rode the mile home with a fractured wrist, 2 dislocated fingers, concussion, dodgy knee and a nice load of road rash on my cheek. 

Although it was on my hybrid, uphill and just after it happened.

He is seriously gonna smart in the morning though


----------



## benborp (29 Jun 2013)

I don't know a great deal about the specifics of that installation (a friend of a colleague ran the build of the Arrivee for a few years) but a single glance from the side would lead pretty much anyone working in the industry to the same succinct diagnosis. It is a one word technical term beginning with 'f'. The bus was driven into the gantry while it was lowered, they attempted to raise the gantry to release the bus but the external structure of the gantry was either torn off the horizontal beam or became caught on the bus. I've been responsible for a couple of automated structures that work above the public's heads and I've had things crash into them and I've had to get them up and running with the public present. It's a horribly pressured situation and many people have an immediate urge to remove any obstacle in order to get everything back to normal which often causes further problems. In the worst case - catastrophic collapse, death, mayhem. In this instance deflating the tyres might be the exact thing to do but it would be completely pointless if the gantry wasn't secured first to stop it descending with the bus as its tyres were let down. 15 minutes would be about the bare minimum for getting the show back on the road in a situation like this and that would require identifying all the issues, coming up with a solution to each of them and executing a plan and everything working out as expected first time. Thinking about it they did pretty well and I wouldn't be surprised if the scenario was covered in their incident plans. The finish at a dodgy corner three km out was a bit suspect though. I think that would have led to even more carnage.

Anyhow, I'm not discounting a fresh, angry Cav being able to get back on before the finish.


----------



## beastie (29 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I was being flippant.


Surely not......


----------



## oldroadman (29 Jun 2013)

benborp said:


> I don't know a great deal about the specifics of that installation (a friend of a colleague ran the build of the Arrivee for a few years) but a single glance from the side would lead pretty much anyone working in the industry to the same succinct diagnosis. It is a one word technical term beginning with 'f'. The bus was driven into the gantry while it was lowered, they attempted to raise the gantry to release the bus but the external structure of the gantry was either torn off the horizontal beam or became caught on the bus. I've been responsible for a couple of automated structures that work above the public's heads and I've had things crash into them and I've had to get them up and running with the public present. It's a horribly pressured situation and many people have an immediate urge to remove any obstacle in order to get everything back to normal which often causes further problems. In the worst case - catastrophic collapse, death, mayhem. In this instance deflating the tyres might be the exact thing to do but it would be completely pointless if the gantry wasn't secured first to stop it descending with the bus as its tyres were let down. 15 minutes would be about the bare minimum for getting the show back on the road in a situation like this and that would require identifying all the issues, coming up with a solution to each of them and executing a plan and everything working out as expected first time. Thinking about it they did pretty well and I wouldn't be surprised if the scenario was covered in their incident plans. The finish at a dodgy corner three km out was a bit suspect though. I think that would have led to even more carnage.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm not discounting a fresh, angry Cav being able to get back on before the finish.


 
At last, someone who seems to actually KNOW something about how things work. Good post.
So far as all the "ruin" stuff goes, for about 10 minutes you get hacked off with a mistake, then forget it and move on. Everyone ends up same time on GC except for a few bonus seconds, overall no real harm done, and hopefully the injured will be able to continue. The real problem with getting injured is not riding, but sleeping. Sticking to the sheets and tearing at forming scabs whenever you move in bed is not the best fun, and ensures disturbed sleep.
The mantra: "tomorrow is another day, get over today and move on, there's another days racing to sort out". It's a hard sport for hard people


----------



## Flying_Monkey (29 Jun 2013)

Looks like I am going to miss most of this live because of being in an incompatible timezone this year. I may try to stay up for some of the mountain stages though.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (29 Jun 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Looks like I am going to miss most of this live because of being in an incompatible timezone this year. I may try to stay up for some of the mountain stages though.


 

We'll keep you posted fella, with varying degrees of intuitive skill.


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Sticking to the sheets and tearing at forming scabs whenever you move in bed is not the best fun, and ensures disturbed sleep.


I love a good scab. I miss waking up with body parts pulling the bedsheets with them. Then the satisfying cracking when they are forced to move. I may just go out and fall off in the next few days just to make me feel alive!


----------



## Kiwiavenger (30 Jun 2013)

Twitter suggests Tony Martin will be starting today.


----------



## theloafer (30 Jun 2013)

dam all free links on steephill.tv been closed  lucky my link in post 249 still working


----------



## thom (30 Jun 2013)

Kittel this morning - he wears the yellow jersey with those sunnies - could be a shot from the 70's


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

These guys like Tony Martin who get back on with a bruised lung, multiple road rash is just amazing.


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2013)

I hope you can all see the stunning scenery


----------



## theloafer (30 Jun 2013)

raindog said:


> I hope you can all see the stunning scenery


 
thinking of poss going there for holiday... (with bike of course)..


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Boom for stage 2, anyone?.





Still a long way to go yet though...


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Still a long way to go yet though...


I don't the break will stick Smutch!
I'll go for Sagan


----------



## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> It didn't ruin it at all. Stop being a flouncey blouse.



Quite. Adds to the excitement.


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

No, nor do I. Shame. 

Sagan definitely looks the best bet but I expect Kristoff fancies his chances too, and has the motivation of potential yellow to spur him on...

I'm not totally ruling out Cav yet though! He's been climbing well lately...


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

Hmmm, Cav already struggling


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2013)

FDJ look like they may have a plan for today's stage...


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

Scrap that. I am ruling Cav out. 

This is turning into a cracking stage though. I'm backing Kristoff to do it.


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> FDJ look like they may have a plan for today's stage...



Bonnet? Or maybe even Vichot? Good to see them gunning for it anyway.


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Scrap that. I am ruling Cav out.
> 
> This is turning into a cracking stage though. I'm backing Kristoff to do it.


Good call Smutch. You haven't picked him before either so far as I remember!


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

Rolland going at this stage just shows that he doesn't consider himself a real contender


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

Or that his heart rules his head. The winner gets to wear Yellow. Big carrot.


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

I've got as much chance of staying away for 60km


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## Noodley (30 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Or that his heart rules his head. The winner gets to wear Yellow. Big carrot.


 
Is that Rolland's new nickname, "big carrot"?


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> I've got as much chance of staying away for 60km


Agreed, defo heart making the decisions there. `When he gets caught the head, legs and lungs will say "that was stupid, dipshit".


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

I wonder if David Millar comes home in the front group whether his 4'th place yesterday will give him a placing advantage when it comes to assigning the yellow jersey...


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Is that Rolland's new nickname, "big carrot"?


It's infinitely better than Pierre and 45 times better than Rolland.


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> Is that Rolland's new nickname, "big carrot"?


 
Are we going to have Noodley's interesting facts of the day again this year ?

The mention of carrot brings to mind the interesting non cycling fact that carrots are the only protestant vegetable I know. Anyone know any others ?


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

Just switched over to ITV4 to hear that Rolland was taking on fuel because his energy is like a bank account and he doesn't want to be in an overdraft situation.

I switched back to the adverts on Ooooorosport.


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Are we going to have Noodley's interesting facts of the day again this year ?
> 
> The mention of carrot brings to mind the interesting non cycling fact that carrots are the only protestant vegetable I know. Anyone know any others ?


Because they are...............orange?


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Because they are...............orange?


 
Not all carrots are orange - the original ones are purple. It was a dutch guy who bred orange carrots (in a similar vein to tulips) and he did so in homage to William of Orange, the champion of protestantism.


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Not all carrots are orange - the original ones are purple. It was a dutch guy who bred orange carrots (in a similar vein to tulips) and he did so in homage to William of Orange, the champion of protestantism.


Thank you for that piece of knowledge. I look forward to more of these on the slow boring stages.


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## StuAff (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Not all carrots are orange - the original ones are purple. It was a dutch guy who bred orange carrots (in a similar vein to tulips) and he did so in homage to William of Orange, the champion of protestantism.


Are you related to Mr Sherwen?


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## Noodley (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Are we going to have Noodley's interesting facts of the day again this year ?
> 
> The mention of carrot brings to mind the interesting non cycling fact that carrots are the only protestant vegetable I know. Anyone know any others ?


 
I reckon "thom's interesting greengrocer facts of the day" would be much better


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

Giancarlo Broccoli rides for Vini Fantini - maybe


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## threebikesmcginty (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I reckon "thom's interesting greengrocer facts of the day" would be much better



I think you'll find that's "thom's interesting greengrocer's facts of the day"


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> Good call Smutch. You haven't picked him before either so far as I remember!



I like to make it sound like I know what I'm talking about by picking someone other than the obvious candidate. 

Unfortunately, I've proved too many times in this forum how clueless I am to be able to pull the wool over your eyes like that.


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> I reckon "thom's interesting greengrocer facts of the day" would be much better


 
Problem is I'm kind of out of stock now. I wouldn't like to have to start making things up.


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Problem is I'm kind of out of stock *bouillon* now. I wouldn't like to have to start making things up.


----------



## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

this is fast for 16km out innit?


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

Is Kristoff actually in the lead group? The way they're discussing Millar as a candidate for yellow leads me to suspect not. Back to the drawing board...

Ho hum.


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Is Kristoff actually in the lead group? The way they're discussing Millar as a candidate for yellow leads me to suspect not. Back to the drawing board...
> 
> Ho hum.


not, they said earlier so Smutch's latest pick goes south!


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

Froome daaaawwwgggg


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

strange move but maybe a show of force


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## Crackle (30 Jun 2013)

It looked like Froome really overcooked that corner


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## Gains84 (30 Jun 2013)

Squeaky bum time with some of those speeds/corners!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (30 Jun 2013)

and too early unfortunately...


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

farking chien


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

User said:


> almost true, the orange carrot and William of orange was more a lucky coincidence rather than a homage to William of orange, the Dutch at the time were renowned carrot growers,


 
But it did become popular because of the association to protestantism & King Billy


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Flippin dog...


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## RecordAceFromNew (30 Jun 2013)

Gee that dog must have nine lives!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (30 Jun 2013)

nobber hound, nobber owner.


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

wasn't Froome Dawg dog?


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Aaagghhh close chase


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Pedal pedal


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Go go go


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Go go


----------



## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Yes..


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## rich p (30 Jun 2013)

Great finish and respeck to him


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Yellow ?


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## RWright (30 Jun 2013)

Was pulling for Sagan but that was great.


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## thom (30 Jun 2013)

Oh Bollocks - not another testicular cancer story...


----------



## threebikesmcginty (30 Jun 2013)

Leave it.


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

shoot that was entertaining! Love this race.


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

Could EBH be in yellow?


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## Gains84 (30 Jun 2013)

No due to the winner having a second gap...jammy!


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Could EBH be in yellow?



Nope, they gave Bakelandts a time gap so it's his. Millar 2nd, EBH 5th overall.


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## Crackle (30 Jun 2013)

Did Eurosport call the winner or did they get it wrong?


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Did Eurosport call the winner or did they get it wrong?


Eurosport had him in Yellow from the off. Sagan was +1 and then the rest from there.


----------



## StuAff (30 Jun 2013)

Great finish, Jan did well there.


----------



## fossyant (30 Jun 2013)

Dave second on GC is good.


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## Strathlubnaig (30 Jun 2013)

A good finish to that stage, great effort to hold off the chasing pack, nice one, he really could not believe it. And also good to see Millar at 2nd in GC, if only for a short time. Massive autobus too.


----------



## Milzy (30 Jun 2013)

*u** Bradley Wiggins this is going to be one of the best TDF's yet!!!


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## oldroadman (30 Jun 2013)

Great opportunist ride by JB. His first proper pro win, what a place to do it, and get a yellow into the bargain. One young man who will have a story that will last him into old age. Great stage, well planned route, beautiful island. Shame dog leads are in short supply!
Still, all's well that ends well.


----------



## thom (30 Jun 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Great opportunist ride by JB. His first proper pro win, what a place to do it, and get a yellow into the bargain.


True - if he only wins one race in his life, this wasn't a bad one to chose was it ?


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2013)

I'm gonna go for a FDJ victory tomorrow. I have no idea what they were doing today other than they were trying something out for the next stage


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

ITV's highlights are actually pretty good. Some decent clips from the team cars during yesterdays "confusion" and a few rider interviews too. TBH though the missus doesn't understand why i need to watch the highlights after watching the live version of events "all farking day". 

My response of "it wasn't all day, i was also out for 3 hours cycling this morning" went down like a lead balloon.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2013)

You could have just told her that the highlights also have "some decent clips from the team cars during yesterdays 'confusion' and a few rider interviews"...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jun 2013)

Noodley said:


> You could have just told her that the highlights also have "some decent clips from the team cars during yesterdays 'confusion' and a few rider interviews"...


I did. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on perspective) she closed the door and buggered off upstairs. The couch is more than a user on cyclechat - it is also a borderline comfortable sleeping location for men who piss of their partners.


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2013)

Tell her it could be worse - it could be golf.


----------



## oldroadman (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Tell her it could be worse - it could be golf.


 Yes, that goes on for days...ah, see the parallel. At least it's not a load of blokes/women ruining their walk by getting annoyed that a ball won't go where they want it to.


----------



## The Couch (30 Jun 2013)

thom said:


> Kittel this morning - he wears the yellow jersey with those sunnies - could be a shot from the 70's


 
No, it's more 1985 ....


----------



## The Couch (30 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> Did Eurosport call the winner or did they get it wrong?


Don't know about Eurosport, but French tv got it wrong:

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/vide...o/ViveLeVelo_30juni/MV_130630_VLV_irizar_wint

(The replay starts after about 1min 20)


----------



## The Couch (30 Jun 2013)

smutchin said:


> Boom for stage 2, anyone?


 


smutchin said:


> Still a long way to go yet though...


 
Sorry Smutchin, but it seems I was much closer 


The Couch said:


> By the way, for the people who haven't seen the race, but want to keep informed for people to watch-out for... I was surprised by the strong form that Bakelants and Van Marcke have shown on a track that I would have assumed a bit to hard for them.


 
Now if Vanmarcke wins a stage as well... I believe I should start participating in fantasy cycling


----------



## perplexed (1 Jul 2013)

I saw most of the team presentation the other day.

I didn't realise that The Village People had renamed themselves 'Argos Shimano...'


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2013)

Europcar and FDJ are jokers in the pack. They all seem to ride like Tommy V is their mentor. It's undoubtedly fun the way they animate the race but tactically it all seems a bit gauche field.


----------



## The Couch (1 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Europcar and FDJ are jokers in the pack. They all seem to ride like Tommy V is their mentor. It's undoubtedly fun the way they animate the race but tactically it all seems a bit gauche field.


 
Fun indeed and actually... you can't really argue the results neither of those tactics in the past years (often stage wins, white jersey, polka dot jersey)

Now... Francis De Greef, that's a guy you can question race tactics of 
(I feel bad always attacking him... I hope he sets me straight at one point or another... but still, so far what I've seen - especially this Giro - he was really doing all his ideas at the worst possible moments in the race  )


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

Ok, today's wild stab in the dark... Rui Costa.


----------



## The Couch (1 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ok, today's wild stab in the dark... Rui Costa.


Sawing him descend in the TdS, I like your guess... still I believe that Sagan will see today as his best chance to avoid needing to sprint against the likes of Greipel (stage 5 could be that as well, but with less certainty), so I believe this time he will expect his team to stay aboard much longer to make sure this time it is a (limited) sprint
(kinda hoping that someone else will win it like yesterday... makes better tv )


BTW Smutch... what did you think of Sky yesterday... they already needed Porte pulling the bunch (in the 2nd stage)... not a good sign, right?


----------



## thom (1 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> BTW Smutch... what did you think of Sky yesterday... they already needed Porte pulling the bunch (in the 2nd stage)... not a good sign, right?


In my opinion it is far too early for Sky to be showing to take the yellow jersey - they just needed Porte & Froome to finish in the bunch with EBH too if possible to sprint. Last year they were no better than yesterday at this stage. I think Froome's tactic of jumping away was just a bit more than about keeping himself safe - had one of the GC riders been unnerved, they might well have made a mistake on the descent.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

Sounds like Geraint Thomas was in all sorts of difficulty, which doesn't bode well. But apart from that, I don't see that you can read anything into Sky's performance as a team yesterday. 

I thought Froome's dig was just him having a bit of fun - there was a definite glint in his eye in the post-race interview.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Europcar and FDJ are jokers in the pack. They all seem to ride like Tommy V is their mentor. It's undoubtedly fun the way they animate the race but tactically it all seems a bit gauche field.



FDJ's antics yesterday reminded me of Vini Fantini in the Giro.


----------



## jifdave (1 Jul 2013)

Apparently Geraint Thomas couldn't get on his bike and needed help after two failed attempts. 

Will be riding today with a small fracture to his pelvis!!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (1 Jul 2013)

Jerome Coppel's retired. If I were wearing that underwear, I wouldn't have uploaded that photo to twitter, though.


----------



## The Couch (1 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> FDJ's antics yesterday reminded me of Vini Fantini in the Giro.


 
Wow, that's a bold statement...
Maybe comparing them to Bardiani (and the erratic behaviour of Pirazzi) would have been a nicer thing to say 


By the way, no way I am liking that underwear  (the red socks aren't improving the ensemble either)


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Maybe comparing them to Bardiani (and the erratic behaviour of Pirazzi) would have been a nicer thing to say


 
Yes, possibly, but I didn't mean anything by it. I was just recalling Vini Fantini hammering along at the front of the peloton day in, day out, during the Giro. Good exposure for the sponsors.


----------



## dragon72 (1 Jul 2013)

Two years ago in August I was touring on Corsica. This road they're riding today, from Ajaccio to Calvi, I did over two days, and it was absolute heaven. I can't recommend Corsica enough as a touring destination.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

Allez Chava!


----------



## iLB (1 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Allez Chava!


 

Think he needs to kick again soon to make it happen.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

He's not going to do it.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

Goss is in the bunch! So that's second place decided.


----------



## jifdave (1 Jul 2013)

Ooh sagan missed again!

Good finish gerrans


----------



## triangles (1 Jul 2013)

hahaha phil....


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

Ha! Sagan is the new Goss.


----------



## triangles (1 Jul 2013)

I'm gonna have to catch tonight's highlights just to see whether they re-record Phil's commentary for the sprint...


----------



## iLB (1 Jul 2013)

See Gerro dropping a bike length on his lead out man to take full advantage before launching the sprint.


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2013)

Gerrans beats Saggers by a nostril 
great sprinting, and another interesting stage


----------



## iLB (1 Jul 2013)

Peter Sagan puts on green jersey. Looks the same.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Well, I've picked Taaramae for my fantasy team... He looks to be in good form...


----------



## VamP (1 Jul 2013)

He is going for a stage


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2013)

I've more or less given up with Taaramae - a bit like I did with Rémy Di Grégorio some years ago.


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> I can't recommend Corsica enough as a touring destination.


 
+ lots


----------



## thom (1 Jul 2013)

Just got in and saw the finale - well done OricaGreenedge & Simon Gerrans for outfoxing Peter Sagan, for he really was outfoxed there. Still, Sagan is looking very good in green.


----------



## tigger (1 Jul 2013)

How ridiculous did Rolland look in spotty everything?!


----------



## thom (1 Jul 2013)

So, who's going to take the TTT ? I reckon OPQS or Garmin but BMC & Sky will be up there too. Any other obvious contenders ?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (2 Jul 2013)

I think Sky will take it if they can figure out what to do with GT. OPQS will miss 100% Tony Martin so would put them as top 5. Garmin and BMC should take the podiums but anything can happen in TTT. 

I'll say Sky, Garmin then BMC. 

Feel bad for GT. Looks like he wont give up his dream of riding the TDF but it looks like when, not if.


----------



## yello (2 Jul 2013)

Just as an aside, Simon Gerrans speaks good French. So much so that it had me searching out his history; 4 years with AG2R and 1 with Credit Agricole. The guy's walked the walk (or should that be cycled the cycle?)


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> So, who's going to take the TTT ? I reckon OPQS or Garmin but BMC & Sky will be up there too. Any other obvious contenders ?


Garmin!


----------



## mrbadexample (2 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> How ridiculous did Rolland look in spotty everything?!


 

And will he get fined for having the wrong shorts, like Cipollini used to be wearing green?


----------



## yello (2 Jul 2013)

Could we see Millar in yellow then?


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> OPQS will miss 100% Tony Martin so would put them as top 5.



Tony Martin is still riding, isn't he? He actually finished with the lead group yesterday, so seems to be coping with his injuries. 

I'm going for BMC today.


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> How ridiculous did Rolland look in spotty everything?!


 
I said the about the same to my girlfriend yesterday when we saw the summary 
...some other colour pants would have been a better choice

(maybe he wants to out-perform Voeckler and since he ain't beating him in mimic, he thought to himself... I'll take your jersey and look more stylish with it then you)


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

Rolland looked like a Playschool presenter.
What does anyone think of RadioShack's light blue Treks? Ghastly!


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> (Well, I've picked Taaramae for my fantasy team... He looks to be in good form...)


 
It could have been worse... you could have selected De Gendt 
(who is also targeting a stage win - more specifically the Alpe d'Huez stage- the only problem will be that about 20 other people want the same stage win  )


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Just as an aside, Simon Gerrans speaks good French. So much so that it had me searching out his history; 4 years with AG2R and 1 with Credit Agricole. The guy's walked the walk (or should that be cycled the cycle?)


Yes, I saw an videoed interview in l'Equipe yesterday and his French was pretty fluent. As well as living and working with the French he's done some studying too. I was impressed.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

TTTs are usually pretty dull affairs (but not as dull as ITTs) but this one will have the merit of probably deciding where the yellow jersey goes.


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> So, who's going to take the TTT ? I reckon OPQS or Garmin but BMC & Sky will be up there too. Any other obvious contenders ?


I am going for OPQ, even taking away a 100% Martin, they still got some TT talent.. Chavanel, Kwiatek, Velits, Terpstra, Trentin ....that are 5 people that should get far even without Martin

As an outside bet, I will go for Movistar, who have proven in the past that they are good at TTT


----------



## thom (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> As an outside bet, I will go for Movistar, who have proven in the past that they are good at TTT


 
Yes - it is easy to go for the Anglo American teams what with their penchant for wind-testing the arse off everything drag inducing, including their suncream but any GC team worth its salt will have a plan - Saxo-Tinkoff will be there or thereabouts too.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

The biggest question of the day, surely, is what damage can Sky put into Saxo? Not all that much is my guess.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> The biggest question of the day, surely, is what damage can Sky put into Saxo? Not all that much is my guess.


Stannard and GT at less than 100% won't help.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Stannard and GT at less than 100% won't help.


 
Precisely.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Precisely.


Although, apparently, it's a straight non-technical course so they may be less disadvantaged.


----------



## fossyant (2 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> TTTs are usually pretty dull affairs (but not as dull as ITTs) but this one will have the merit of probably deciding where the yellow jersey goes.


 
What, what.  My favourite bits of the tour. TT'er myself ! The 25km TTT should be pretty action packed as the times are coming in.


----------



## iLB (2 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Although, apparently, it's a straight non-technical course so they may be less disadvantaged.


 

I think Stannard will go fine, because he is hard as nails. I think G will do some work early on but maybe drop out at half way, dosed up on pain killers. I can see why he is so determined to carry on, with all the sacrifices in the build up and it being the TDF and all, but I do have to question the decision to carry on with a fractured pelvis.


----------



## Beebo (2 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I can see why he is so determined to carry on, with all the sacrifices in the build up and it being the TDF and all, but I do have to question the decision to carry on with a fractured pelvis.


 
I agree with Chris Boardman's comments, that the fracture must be very small, as it would be impossible to cycle with a broken pelvis otherwise. The pain is probably coming from soft tissue injury, so should get better over time. The team doctors would have pulled him out if it was creating possible future problems.


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> The biggest question of the day, surely, is what damage can Sky put into Saxo? Not all that much is my guess.


 
So say (I know, it's all hypothetical but still... say) Sky would take some time away from Saxo, but looses time to BMC, Movistar and Katusha you don't think the papers would write about it? 
(I'm a stinker, ain't I?)


----------



## oldroadman (2 Jul 2013)

All Sky need to do is stay in close touch. Having the yellow this early will put pressure on the team to ride too much, with GT injured - and the injury is reported to be a hairline fracture which may mean home after giving it an early blast in the TTT - plus Kennaugh not looking to good at the moment, it would be sensible to hold back a little. Movistar will do a decent ride, as will I think OPQS (though I expect that Tony Martin will not be full gas), BMC for top 3, Katusha may be on the podium. For the GT teams keeping within 30 seconds of thelead is all that's needed. The mountains and ITT will be where the race is really sorted out, when there are no hiding places. Bertie will need all the Spanish steaks he can eat to counter Froome, I think, but look at Purito for an outsider.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> So say (I know, it's all hypothetical but still... say) Sky would take some time away from Saxo, but looses time to BMC, Movistar and Katusha you don't think the papers would write about it?
> (I'm a stinker, ain't I?)


 
I'd expect the newspapers to relate the results even if even FDJ won 

But from the POV of the GC, the gap between Sky and Saxo will be the most closely watched

However, if Sky lose time to Katusha then that would be news


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2013)

Is today Bruce Forsyth's favourite stage of the Tour? "Nice to see you..."

IGMC


----------



## montage (2 Jul 2013)

So far we have had the Orica Green-wedge bus scandal, lone breakaway survives impossible odds, Gerrans outsprinting Sagan. Going by this pattern, I predict Europcar to storm the TTT tomorrow and for Sagan to finish 2nd again with his Cannondale team.


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

montage said:


> So far we have had the Orica Green-wedge bus scandal, lone breakaway survives impossible odds, Gerrans outsprinting Sagan. Going by this pattern, I predict Europcar to storm the TTT tomorrow and for Sagan to finish 2nd again with his Cannondale team.


You do realize you are putting (your beloved) Voeckler in the yellow jersey, right?

Still... it fits the pattern perfectly indeed  (although I might have gone for Euskaltel)


----------



## montage (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> You do realize you are putting (your beloved) Voeckler in the yellow jersey, right?
> 
> Still... it fits the pattern perfectly indeed  (although I might have gone for Euskaltel)


 

Tommy V will be forced to withdraw after falling ill due to being covered head to toe in poop due to his team mates pushing over the porta-loo he was using (door side down) - because nobody really likes him


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

I'm not fluent in Aussie speak but I notice from his interview that Gerrans is either rapt or wrapped at his stage win yesterday.


----------



## Dave Davenport (2 Jul 2013)

The bloke with Kelly on Eurosport is really getting on my wick.


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

Let's hope JVDB takes an example from his team performance in the ITTs
(didn't expect Lotto to be that good)


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2013)

Europcar about to set off... Is anyone betting against Tommy V going on a solo breakaway today?


----------



## Dave Davenport (2 Jul 2013)

Great ride by GT.


----------



## jifdave (2 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Great ride by GT.


I'm just glad he peeled off before having to hit those speed bumps hard.


----------



## thom (2 Jul 2013)

Saxo-Tinkoff on a stormer at the half way point. 2 secs ahead of Sky at the same point but one man down.


----------



## Dave Davenport (2 Jul 2013)

Are Europecar on a club run?


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

Could be Nico in yellow


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

or Kwiatowski if OPQS stay ahead


----------



## Aperitif (2 Jul 2013)

*OPQS's average speed was 57.8kph.* _57.8kph! _


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

It seems that (from a GC POV) this is going to be a letdown


----------



## thom (2 Jul 2013)

well done orica-greenedge - a swift final km there & the lead by less than 1 sec


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

or Gerrans - or anyone else I haven't mentioned yet


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

Cadel?


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Cadel?


 
Let's stay serious guys


----------



## thom (2 Jul 2013)

BMC 26 secs down...


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Let's stay serious guys


 
It was someone that rich p hadn't mentioned yet


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

Gerrans, as I predicted just after Orica crossed the line....


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

Sean Kelly pronounces O'Rica like O'Reilly


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

The TTT was great for Radioshack...
They didn't have to wait for Schleck 1 time (he didn't even stick to just dragging at the back)


----------



## Rob3rt (2 Jul 2013)

Aperitif said:


> OPQS's average speed was 57.8kph. _57.8kph! _


 

It is very fast but to put it into perspective, some of the top amateur UK domestic testers are doing 25 mile (~40 km) TT's at speeds of 31-32mph SOLO. So given that these guys are riding in a group and are the worlds top althetes in the sport, it is not that surprising to see such speeds.


----------



## iLB (2 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is very fast but to put it into perspective, some of the top amateur UK domestic testers are doing 25 mile (~40 km) TT's at speeds of 31-32mph SOLO. So given that these guys are riding in a group and are the worlds top althetes in the sport, it is not that surprising to see such speeds.


 

So there. Your amazement is unfounded ape.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is very fast but to put it into perspective, some of the top amateur UK domestic testers are doing 25 mile (~40 km) TT's at speeds of 31-32mph SOLO. So given that these guys are riding in a group and are the worlds top althetes in the sport, it is not that surprising to see such speeds.


 
Absolutely. With 9 to share the work, they can go well into VO2max and still have tons of recovery time. They can probably maintain 20-30% over FTP as a unit.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> So there. Your amazement is unfounded ape.


 

I am not suggesting his amazement is unfounded, just offering some perspective. People often are in amazement because the speeds they go are double or triple what many cyclists do on their club runs etc, but they really only have a couple of mph if that on the top amateur riders who are also holding down day jobs etc.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> It seems that (from a GC POV) this is going to be a letdown


 
Depends.

There are some big losers today. Cadel, Tejay, Purito and Schleck have all given away significant time to GC favourites.


----------



## raindog (2 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is very fast but to put it into perspective, some of the top amateur UK domestic testers are doing 25 mile (~40 km) TT's at speeds of 31-32mph SOLO.


Yeah, but not through a town centre with 90° corners like today.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Yeah, but not through a town centre with 90° corners like today.


 

I counted 7 sharpish corners, but it's not like they had to drop down to 10mph is it?


----------



## beastie (2 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> It seems that (from a GC POV) this is going to be a letdown


It was never going to be anything else, and at 20 summation Kms it ain't supposed to.


----------



## beastie (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Depends.
> 
> There are some big losers today. Cadel, Tejay, Purito and Schleck have all given away significant time to GC favourites.


Haha, did you say Schleck was a GC contender? 

None of the time gaps can be considered significant I don't think.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Depends.
> 
> There are some big losers today. Cadel, Tejay, Purito and Schleck have all given away significant time to GC favourites.


 
Aaargh and Mollema, he was supposed to be my fantasy secret dark horse.


----------



## VamP (2 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Haha, did you say Schleck was a GC contender?
> 
> None of the time gaps can be considered significant I don't think.


 
20 seconds is not decisive but it definitely is significant. I didn't say Schleck was a contender I said he's given time away.


----------



## thom (2 Jul 2013)

Allez Le Pelvis - the Geraint Thomas fan club. Ted King of Cannondale, is out having missed the time cut - people on twitter are upset by this.


----------



## iLB (2 Jul 2013)

Looks like there might be some wiggle room for Ted King yet, here's hoping.


----------



## Aperitif (2 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is very fast but to put it into perspective, some of the top amateur UK domestic testers are doing 25 mile (~40 km) TT's at speeds of 31-32mph SOLO. So given that these guys are riding in a group and are the worlds top althetes in the sport, it is not that surprising to see such speeds.


Well I thought it was a bit underpaced by my standards - but there you go. Well done anyone who can clock that as an average. It's a demonstration of skill and commitment. 10 seconds difference in the top four is a good benchmark.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I am not suggesting his amazement is unfounded, just offering some perspective. People often are in amazement because the speeds they go are double or triple what many cyclists do on their club runs etc, but they really only have a couple of mph if that on the top amateur riders who are also holding down day jobs etc.


Yep, especially a novice like Aperitif!


----------



## theclaud (2 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Yep, especially a novice like Aperitif!


A novice, and a wuss to boot...


----------



## Speicher (2 Jul 2013)

If Aperitif is a wuss, that is still no reason to boot him.


----------



## Aperitif (2 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Yep, especially a novice like Aperitif!


Oi! Not so much of the 'no' - I've got loads of vices. (No, no no, threechiselsmcginty - I don't mean I can give a big squeeze in a variety of ways...)


theclaud said:


> A novice, and a wuss to boot...


Correct! A 'wuss' is a timid rider's version of 'whoosh!'


----------



## Aperitif (2 Jul 2013)

Speicher said:


> If Aperitif is a wuss, that is still no reason to boot him.


I'm going back to my roots and going to become a racine cyclist.


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2013)

We're all taking our bikes down to the local sand pit with some PVA after how Lotto-Belisol performed today, right?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (2 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> *That bloke* with *Kelly on Eurosport is really getting on my wick*.


 
FTFY


----------



## beastie (2 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> 20 seconds is not decisive but it definitely is significant. I didn't say Schleck was a contender I said he's given time away.


Fair enough


----------



## The Couch (2 Jul 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> We're all taking our bikes down to the local sand pit with some PVA after how Lotto-Belisol performed today, right?


 
Apparently the "paint job" is inspired on the forbidden LZR Racer swimming suit


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> 20 seconds is not decisive but it definitely is significant. I didn't say Schleck was a contender I said he's given time away.


 
Not commenting on the fact that Schleck is or isn't a contender... but nevertheless I'd say Schleck loosing only 20s in a(ny type of) time trial is almost a success. (Especially the Schleck we've seen the last 2 years)


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Not commenting on the fact that Schleck is or isn't a contender... but nevertheless I'd say Schleck loosing only 20s in a(ny type of) time trial is almost a success. (Especially the Schleck we've seen the last 2 years)


 
Can't really argue with that.

Now what about today? One for the sprinters, or are Goss, Greipel and Degenkolb going to fade on the lumps? Sagan for second? A breakaway that sticks? I'd say almost anything could happen today. Even Cav staying with the pack.


----------



## Rasmus (3 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Now what about today? One for the sprinters, or are Goss, Greipel and Degenkolb going to fade on the lumps? Sagan for second? A breakaway that sticks? I'd say almost anything could happen today. Even Cav staying with the pack.


 
I very much expect a bunch sprint today. The cat 3 comes early, and the lumps at the end are not severe enough to dislodge Cav, Greipel et al.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

Greipel today for me.

I have a feeling the pace may well be high enough that even the smaller lumps at the end may cause problems for some of the "pure sprinters" like Kittel.


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

If it's a toughish finish my money (theoretically!!) is on Degenkolb


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

I don't think the finish is tough enough to separate too many sprinters, so Cav for me.
It is a long stage so I reckon the breakaway will be allowed off the leash a bit more than in Corsica but this stage will have all the sprint teams gunning for a result, what with it being so early in the race and with people fresh from the TTT yesterday.
The main thing against Cav in my opinion is he has not yet been able to mix it at the finishes yet - normally it takes a few near misses before the ball gets rolling for him.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> The main thing against Cav in my opinion is he has not yet been able to mix it at the finishes yet - normally it takes a few near misses before the ball gets rolling for him.


 
For me the main thing against Cav is that he's apparently still recovering from a lurgy. If he's not quite 100%, he might not be able to muster that famous kick, and he'll need it to take him past Greipel at the finish line.

I hope I'm wrong though - I have Cav in my fantasy team.


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> For me the main thing against Cav is that he's apparently still recovering from a lurgy. If he's not quite 100%, he might not be able to muster that famous kick, and he'll need it to take him past Greipel at the finish line.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong though - I have Cav in my fantasy team.


 
Agree... hope for Cav, but the antibiotics will probably keep him behind Greipel
(BTW so far Kittel has actually looked marginally better uphill than Cav, so if Kittel gets dropped,and Cav isn't recovered, he'll be at his wheel)


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> For me the main thing against Cav is that he's apparently still recovering from a lurgy.


 
Still recovering ? I need better research then... ;-)
Ok then yes it will be hard but he was certainly in the mix for Saturday when it was worse so I expect him to be there today - kind of depends a bit on how effective his train will be too - if he gets an armchair ride then he can win by wide margins.
I just hope nobody crashes...


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I just hope nobody crashes...


 
Same here

... although if Pat Mcquaid is driving around somewhere ...


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Still recovering ? I need better research then... ;-)


 
I'm just going by what he said in this interview yesterday:
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/new...iotics-all-week-ready-to-find-form-2013-tour/

Probably sandbagging, I expect.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'm just going by what he said in this interview yesterday:
> http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/new...iotics-all-week-ready-to-find-form-2013-tour/
> 
> Probably sandbagging, I expect.


I must admit that when Cav mentioned antibiotics it came out more like he'd been on them not that he was still on them. There's a gap between off antibiotics and fully recovered, though, and it's just a little uncertain how far across that gap he is.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I don't think the finish is tough enough to separate too many sprinters, so Cav for me.
> It is a long stage so I reckon the breakaway will be allowed off the leash a bit more than in Corsica but this stage will have all the sprint teams gunning for a result, what with it being so early in the race and with people fresh from the TTT yesterday.
> The main thing against Cav in my opinion is he has not yet been able to mix it at the finishes yet - normally it takes a few near misses before the ball gets rolling for him.


 
The hills aren't huge, but there are five in quick succession there, and if the peloton are chasing a strong breakaway then it will be tough for the sprinters for sure. It's like 5 Box Hills in a row there.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> There's a gap between off antibiotics and fully recovered, though


 
That was my thinking too.

OTOH, if he didn't mention it before because he didn't want to reveal a potential weakness to his opposition, he must be almost back to 100% now...


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> The hills aren't huge, but there are five in quick succession there, and if the peloton are chasing a strong breakaway then it will be tough for the sprinters for sure. It's like 5 Box Hills in a row there.


 
5 over 60 km - it is a long stage, so actually they are spread out. To me it looks like a couple are bumps rather than hills and maybe the first is slightly harder than Box hill while the others are slightly easier. 
I think other considerations, like road width and any potential for windiness might have more of an impact. Cav managed to win stage 13 of the Giro remember.
Orica want to retain yellow which they likely will do by keeping any breakaway in check - I doubt the lead will balloon too much.
Thinking back, the occasions when breakaway leads have got very large (outside the mountains) tend to have been when
1) something odd has happened, like the accidents a couple of years ago that saw Chavanel and Voeckler get yellow - the weather played a part then but I suspect the cote d'azur will be kind today
2) there has been a dominant sprint team that the peloton has wanted to force into doing the work, like when Cav was at HTC - today, Lotto, Cannondale, Argos-Shimano & Orica all have hope of getting a result as well as OPQS

We shall see soon enough!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Jul 2013)

Meanwhile, after only 20km the 6-man breakaway is already 10:30 up the road. Hope someone's told them that they still have another 200km to go.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

12:30 at the top of the first hill.


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> 12:30 at the top of the first hill.


 
Shows what I know ;-)


----------



## PpPete (3 Jul 2013)

Cav wearing a skinsuit and aero helmet in his interview on ES. Evidently thinks he has a chance.


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

Contador (on what's his first Tour de France memories): "My brother and I watching Indurain winning the Tour"

Maybe he should have thought twice before giving that answer (as Indurain was being put in the "mutant" category qua watts outage)


----------



## lukesdad (3 Jul 2013)

Climb-age is this some technical term I've missed out on smeggers ?


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

Really enormous crowds out there - nice to see a good turn out


----------



## biking_fox (3 Jul 2013)

BIt harsh on Ted King? missing yesterday's time cut by 7' which on a TTT when you get dropped off the back really isn't that bad? I thought they usually gave more latitude on those sorts of things?


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Climb-age is this some technical term I've missed out on smeggers ?


 
It's easy ... it's the age that you can still climb decently... which means it's different for everyone:

For Sastre it was 34
For A. Schleck it's probably 26
For Cav it was the age when he stepped onto a bicycle


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Really enormous crowds out there - nice to see a good turn out


 

A guy running beside the riders has an accident...:


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

It's shaping up to be quite a dramatic finish, but I'm down to ride in the club 10 tonight so I'm going to have to leave before the end


----------



## The Couch (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> A guy running beside the riders has an accident...:


Hope that'll be the only fall today


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

4.18 with 34km to go. Should be a catch.
All to do for Cav


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

3 mins at 26km


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

I'm not sure if O Rica can do this on their own


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

Goss off the back


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

cav is still there


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

crashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

That crash might be the making of the breakaway


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

FM will be beside himself with Arashiro up front


----------



## Strathlubnaig (3 Jul 2013)

a stage win for Europcar peut-etre.....


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

I think they'll be caught


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I think they'll be caught


I think you're right


----------



## laurence (3 Jul 2013)

Cav for the win


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

These time checks are poo

Good effort by the Astana guy though


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

any sign of Goss Vamp?


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

I love the way the last breakaway guys put massive efforts in a futile attempt with the peloton 50m behind


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

OPQS done their homework - hogging the left hand side before the left hand turn


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

Cav!
Carnage behind with a crash 
EBH, Sagan & Greipel in close attendance - yellow jersey up there too.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (3 Jul 2013)

nice finish, but Cav took it nae bother.


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

whoop whoop whoop - sheer perfection


----------



## cd365 (3 Jul 2013)

Cav again, will he ever get bored of stage wins?


----------



## Boris Bajic (3 Jul 2013)

Youngest offspring (not that interested in cycling) wandered in for the last 4 km.

Asked which was Cavendish... Found him... With 800m left, he said "He'll win it. He always does in these situations".

I said don't be too sure... There are other fast guys in there with strong trains... 

Cavendish won it... Boy strolled out of the room, as much as saying "Told you so".


----------



## Nearly there (3 Jul 2013)

Griepel Sagan bow down and kiss the ring


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

Cav was magnificent. Again.

OPQS did their job perfectly.


----------



## steve52 (3 Jul 2013)

i missed the knock down blow to the spectator,anyone got the link?


----------



## Peteaud (3 Jul 2013)

WOW WOW WOW


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2013)

brilliant sprint from EBH


----------



## Twizit (3 Jul 2013)

God bless Sky+ on the iPad - caught the last 5km whilst "working". Beautifully timed finish.
Thought OPQS had been swamped about 3km out, but the last three in the train appeared like magic just in time.


----------



## philipbh (3 Jul 2013)

steve52 said:


> i missed the knock down blow to the spectator,anyone got the link?


 
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tour-de-france-2013-spoilers.129165/post-2531684


----------



## Crackle (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> A guy running beside the riders has an accident...:



Straight left, from the shoulder, quite loose but straight to the chin.


----------



## thom (3 Jul 2013)

Ok, any fool want to bet against Cav for tomorrow ?


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Ok, any fool want to bet against Cav for tomorrow ?


 
I'm not sure, it looks like a lot of climbing - will he be able to stay with the peloton?


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

Is that an uphill finish? Albeit small?


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Ok, any fool want to bet against Cav for tomorrow ?


 Every time I mentally write off Cav he confounds me, as I think Dragon72 said some time ago.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2013)

There's a whole 12 metres of climbing in the final kilometre...






I had a look at the finish on Google Earth. They skirt round the town centre and the last corner is a sweeping left-hander, with a bit over 1km to go, then it's a straight-ish run along a broad dual carriageway to the finish line. No "technical" stuff at all.

It has Cav's name written all over it.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2013)

Yeah he'd be disappointed not to win tomorrow.


----------



## iLB (3 Jul 2013)

Stage 3 in 2009 was when HTC tore the race apart in a series of head - cross winds taking massive pulls on the front. Would love that tomorrow, Cav won.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Jul 2013)

Don't forget about Kittel. He'll love this one too.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (4 Jul 2013)

Yep i think Cav or Greipel for today. They are the best sprinters but just as important is their lead out. They have the ability to boss the final 10k and make it near impossible for anyone else to get a look in. 
Sagan will likely be top 3 again too but will not likely beat Cav or Greipel with only one or two lead out or having to jump on the wheel of another. 

Green jersey is Sagan's to lose imo. He's always there in the sprints and will be at the end of many finishes that the big sprinters will not be.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (4 Jul 2013)

anyone but saggy is good for me.  but is would be great to see trains like the HTC of old come back


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Green jersey is Sagan's to lose imo. He's always there in the sprints and will be at the end of many finishes that the big sprinters will not be.



Looks like he could even win the green jersey without winning a stage. I thought the new points system was supposed to stop that kind of thing! It's certainly his on merit so far though.


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2013)

Saggers and Greipel seemed so resigned to losing - said it yesterday, but it bears repeating, brilliant sprint from EBH.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

"@inrng: Sylvain Chavanel fined 100 Swiss Francs yesterday for "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling." Did he chew with his mouth open?"

The stupidity of cycling's governing bodies truly knows no bounds.


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@inrng: Sylvain Chavanel fined 100 Swiss Francs yesterday for "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling." Did he chew with his mouth open?"
> 
> The stupidity of cycling's governing bodies truly knows no bounds.


Fat Pat has clearly been eating at the trough in a way that damaged the image of cycling.


----------



## fimm (4 Jul 2013)

I wondered if Boassen Hagan was using Cav as his lead-out man? He knew he wouldn't beat Cav, so used him as lead-out in the sprint for second? Or am I reading too much into the mad rush in those last few meters?


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

fimm said:


> I wondered if Boassen Hagan was using Cav as his lead-out man? He knew he wouldn't beat Cav, so used him as lead-out in the sprint for second? Or am I reading too much into the mad rush in those last few meters?



Boardman read it the same way - reckoned EBH was racing for second and using Cav as a windshield. Canny, if true.


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Ok, any fool want to bet against Cav for tomorrow ?


Well, if you put that way... I feel personally spoken to 

Let's go for Greipel...
He seemed to have the slowest sprint at the finish line yesterday, but I believe the frustration (not sprinting the first stage, loosing yesterday and JVDB hitting the ground) will start kicking in.
And it wouldn't surprise me if he now decides to stick (go back) to his strategy of previous years: not waisting energy in the intermediate sprints, so that he has (might have) a better punch at the finish line


----------



## tadpole (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@inrng: Sylvain Chavanel fined 100 Swiss Francs yesterday for "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling." Did he chew with his mouth open?"
> 
> The stupidity of cycling's governing bodies truly knows no bounds.


 Sylvain Chavanel and his director, Wilfred Peeters, were each fined 100 Swiss francs for a *feeding* that was considered “detrimental to the image of cycling.” In other words, Chavanel took a “sticky bottle” from Peeters in the team car, perhaps holding onto the bottle a bit too long while the director accelerated the car.
In other words cheating.


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@inrng: Sylvain Chavanel fined 100 Swiss Francs yesterday for "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling." Did he chew with his mouth open?"
> 
> The stupidity of cycling's governing bodies truly knows no bounds.


 
Didn't Der Panzerwagen get a fine of 2000 francs for having the WC stripes on his TT bike during the Team Time Trial?
Seems to me that's way too harsh...
He's currently the best timetrialer (only an in-form Wiggins is a real threat), he is the current world champion ITT and OPQ are the world champs team time trial.

But maybe Pat is putting aside something for his retirement (if he should get beaten by Cookson)


----------



## BarryBonkers (4 Jul 2013)

tadpole said:


> In other words cheating.


 
Cheating in an "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling" kind of way. Obvious when you think about it.  

Last year, didn't Gary Imlach voice over a demo on how to pass up a bottle, with suitably laconic commentary?


----------



## yello (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Shows what I know ;-)


 
Reading your posts now, it seems to me like you were spot-on  

Any tips for today? I might be off to the bookies!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Boardman read it the same way - reckoned EBH was racing for second and using Cav as a windshield. Canny, if true.


 
And Inner Ring said the same. Although he also commented that it's one thing to stay in Cav's slipstream but quite another to jump out of it and beat him.


----------



## tadpole (4 Jul 2013)

BarryBonkers said:


> Cheating in an "eating in a way that damaged the image of cycling" kind of way. Obvious when you think about it.


Not eating, *Feeding*, as in holding on to bottle and being *towed* by the freaking car for too long,


----------



## yello (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> reckoned EBH was racing for second and using Cav as a windshield. Canny, if true.


 
Certainly looked that way to me. EBH had Cavendish's wheel and was staying put. Clever tactic imho.

Cavendish is unbeatable in such situations BUT there's an awful lot of stuff that's got to go to plan to get him there. I have my fingers crossed for Cavendish in green this evening though it's by no means a certainty.


----------



## thom (4 Jul 2013)

fimm said:


> I wondered if Boassen Hagan was using Cav as his lead-out man? He knew he wouldn't beat Cav, so used him as lead-out in the sprint for second? Or am I reading too much into the mad rush in those last few meters?


Yes and I expect him to do it more. The other bug guns have their own lead out - Greipel was notable I thought for falling short so must be disappointed. But Cav & EBH is a win-win situation - EBH is not normally quick enough to come round Cav but isn't a dangerous sprinter like some and since they know how each other behaves, Cav is likely happy that it is EBH there and not someone else. EBH on the other hand is just being pragmatic - he has no support but is getting an armchair lead-out to a high position, so it is a canny strategy by him.


----------



## Rob3rt (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Yes and I expect him to do it more. The other bug guns have their own lead out - Greipel was notable I thought for falling short so must be disappointed. But Cav & EBH is a win-win situation - EBH is not normally quick enough to come round Cav but isn't a dangerous sprinter like some and since they know how each other behaves, *Cav is likely happy that it is EBH there and not someone else. EBH on the other hand is just being pragmatic - he has no support but is getting an armchair lead-out to a high position, so it is a canny strategy by him.*


 

And having someone sat on his wheel the whole way actually helps him by reducing drag  Favour for a favour, it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2013)

Greipel lost Henderson's wheel and is complaining that he had to brake because, "I think it was [Alexander] Kristoff. Some riders, they just don't care about what is next to them," Ironic, considering it was him pushing through a non-existent gap a couple of stages ago that took Martin's handlebars away and caused the big pile up.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

tadpole said:


> holding on to bottle and being *towed* by the freaking car for too long,


 
OK, that makes more sense. So why not just say he cheated rather than this euphemistic "feeding" and "detrimental to the image of cycling" nonsense? Bizarre.


----------



## thom (4 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> And having someone sat on his wheel the whole way actually helps him by reducing drag  Favour for a favour, it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.


 
Particularly for the points competition - EBH 2nd meant Sagan got 30 instead of 35 points for the finale.


----------



## thom (4 Jul 2013)

Rumours of another tack attack puncture the sense of bonhomie


----------



## fimm (4 Jul 2013)

Woohoo, I was right 
I don't know much about racing, apart from bits I've picked up from threads such as this...
I was wondering if Cav would mind EBH drafting him, but Rob3rt tells me that he'll be quite happy about it.
I assume EBH has "permission" from Sky to go and scrap for any sprint points going in stages like yesterday and today - it isn't what Sky as a team are there for, but there's plenty of others to look after Froome (at the moment anyway), and it shows they're not _quite_ a one-trick team (as well as getting useful publicity shots of the Sky kit in the background of another photo of Cav winning, she says cynically...)


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Rumours of another tack attack puncture the sense of bonhomie


Maybe the broom wagon should be at the front of the field....


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Rumours of another tack attack puncture the sense of bonhomie


Yeah... read it yesterday... if it's true, it's disgusting behaviour... some people don't understand what harm they might cause other people


----------



## zizou (4 Jul 2013)

love this photo of Cavendish and Kwiatkowski from yesterday






Today the wind is picking up, hopfully strong enough to see echelons forming, always makes the flat stages exciting.


----------



## oldgreyandslow (4 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> love this photo of Cavendish and Kwiatkowski from yesterday
> 
> 
> Today the wind is picking up, hopfully strong enough to see echelons forming, always makes the flat stages exciting.


 
Two comments spring to mind:

1. Would you not think Kwiatkowski earns enough to get his teeth fixed, Cav certainly looks like he has?
2. Maybe the wind will blw the tacks off of the raod?


----------



## laurence (4 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> love this photo of Cavendish and Kwiatkowski from yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Kwiatkowsk has been a bit of a dark horse, he's staying in the mix nicely. one to watch.


----------



## VamP (4 Jul 2013)

VDB out. Vande Velde riding with a dislodged metal plate in his collarbone apparently. I'll be amazed if he's still in the Tour by tonight.


----------



## Shadow (4 Jul 2013)

Boss is away, my mouse wants to play.

Intermediate Sprint: Greipel, cav, Kristoff, Sagan, Steegmans...Kwiatkowske 8th, Chavanel 9th...

Cav obviously feeling much better and does not want to let our favourite Slovak have Green too easily.
And Chavanel...he's getting in the mix of everything this year. What is he up to?


----------



## Shadow (4 Jul 2013)

Looks like Bouhanni is about to abandon. Poor guy. He has added some welcome joie de vivre this year.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

Steegmans in the mix again! He's proving to be a top-class leadout man.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

Shadow said:


> Looks like Bouhanni is about to abandon. Poor guy. He has added some welcome joie de vivre this year.


 
The fact that they haven't sent anyone back to help him has pretty much sealed his fate, really. 

They're discussing Chava's fine on ES right now and Sean Kelly is suggesting it's because he was given a bottle in a restricted zone, not that he got a tow.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

And he's off his bike and in the team car. Poor chap did not look happy.


----------



## VamP (4 Jul 2013)

Read an interview with Kreuziger and he reckoned it was Bouhanni that caused the crash in the finishing straight yesterday with completely pointless weaving. If true than I guess there will be more than a few relieved riders at the news today.


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> They're discussing Chava's fine on ES right now


 
They were also talking a lot about bull a moment ago on Eurosport


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Read an interview with Kreuziger and he reckoned it was Bouhanni that caused the crash in the finishing straight yesterday with completely pointless weaving. If true than I guess there will be more than a few relieved riders at the news today.


Especially pointless, since he must have been around 20th position... he wasn't going to get very close to Cav anymore


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2013)

There's a lot of arm waving and glaring at each other up the front of the peloton today


----------



## VamP (4 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Especially pointless, since he must have been around 20th position... he wasn't going to get very close to Cav anymore


 
Even further back than that I think. That was Kreuziger's point about being too far back to have any meaningful chance of a successful sprint.

Kessiakoff out.


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2013)

User said:


> nice riding by Cav....


especially as there wasn't a single team-mate to help him


----------



## The Couch (4 Jul 2013)

Things looking better for the gorilla after the Sagan and Cav energy loss....
Building myself up - so I fall much deeper - if my fool's guess goes wrong


----------



## laurence (4 Jul 2013)

OPQS move up - Cav's stage?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2013)

Does anyone know anything about the Cavendish off? He was carrying a bit of road grit on his jersey on the dash back.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> especially as there wasn't a single team-mate to help him


Velits fell back and ushered him up


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2013)

Bouhanni is a danger to everyone in a sprint as has been shown all year.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Bouhanni is a danger to everyone in a sprint as has been shown all year.


Bouhanni has abandoned anyway.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

cracking sprint by the big German, he'll be pleased with that team effort.


----------



## Herzog (4 Jul 2013)

First African in yellow...have to wait until the results are in.


----------



## dan_bo (4 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> First African in yellow...have to wait until the results are in.


 

Fantastic. Daryl Impey's yer man.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

Proper exciting finish that. Greipel's sheer power is bloody impressive. I love the way he winds it up like a TGV or something - there's no stopping him once he's in full flight, and his team did a grand job for him. Sagan and Kittel didn't have a chance today. And Cav looked like he didn't have enough left in the tank for that final kick after his chase back.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

EBH now second in GC. Up yours, Kimmage!


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 Jul 2013)

Why did Cav have to chase back? Something must have happened when I was on my commute home


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Why did Cav have to chase back? Something must have happened when I was on my commute home


he crashed.


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 Jul 2013)

Cheers. I only caught the last 3K. Will watch the highlights this evening.


----------



## yello (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Greipel's sheer power is bloody impressive.


 
Ain't that the truth. He's a brute on the bike, wringing out every last bit of power. It's not finesse but it is effective.


----------



## Risex4 (4 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> And Cav looked like he didn't have enough left in the tank for that final kick after his chase back.


 

Maybe he was just tired?

https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/352667390200389633

Don't shout at me Cav, I'm not a BBC journo.


----------



## thom (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Ok, any fool want to bet against Cav for tomorrow ?


Just caught up with this - congratulations to Greipel.
OK, hand in the air, the call didn't work out - nothing is certain !
I'm still trying to work out what happened though - did both Cav & Sagan crash at some point in the run in ?


----------



## laurence (4 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Just caught up with this - congratulations to Greipel.
> OK, hand in the air, the call didn't work out - nothing is certain !
> I'm still trying to work out what happened though - did both Cav & Sagan crash at some point in the run in ?


 
Sagan went down earlier, looked to have a double puncture by going just off the road - hard to tell though. Cav went down nearer the finish and chased hard to get back. some Belkin riders also went down, but the tv didn't show the crash.

it was all a bit messy in the finale. the teams seem to sit up a bit and OPQS fell apart when it kicked in again. looking at the sprint, it looked as if Steegmans (?), the last man, just couldn't get Cav up and pulled over. Griepel was already winding it up and it was all over. Lotto played it well. chapeau,


----------



## Risex4 (4 Jul 2013)

Sagan had a double puncture with about 40 to go and seemed to have a bit of a problem with his brakes/gears(?) after the changeout, but was paced back in by half the Cannondale team so that probably had no impact.

Cav had an untelevised off from about 30 out, so no-one saw exactly what happened. Didn't appear too serious as he more or less paced himself back into it and bunny-hopped a roundabout on the way through.

The pack kept a stupidly high pace on throughout so getting back on may have cost them a bit from the tank, but to my untrained eye it was all technical; OPQS and Cannondale's trains tried to control it from too far out, got swamped and unseated after the 5 (initially by Argos-Shimano), and consequently both Cav and Sagan were left to solo it, whereas Lotto timed it just right with Henderson/Greipel.

Edit, or what laurence said. Damn phone calls interrupting my posting.


----------



## Risex4 (4 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> it looked as if Steegmans (?), the last man, just couldn't get Cav up and pulled over. Griepel was already winding it up and it was all over. Lotto played it well. chapeau,


 

I'll need to watch the highlights again, but I'm sure Steegmans peeled whilst Griepel still had two in front of him.


----------



## SWSteve (4 Jul 2013)

We've all seen the WiiU adds on ITV's coverage..but has anyone else noticed the size of the mum's teeth? They are Nigel Thornbury esque


----------



## SomethingLikeThat (4 Jul 2013)

I'm sick of seeing those adverts. No one is buying the WiiU and those ads won't change that.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

inrng suggests Sagan's brake/gear problems were 'theatrical' and designed to allow some use of the mechanic car for a bit.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2013)

Sodding Taaramae lost another 5 minutes today. Useless streak of Estonian piss.


----------



## jifdave (4 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> inrng suggests Sagan's brake/gear problems were 'theatrical' and designed to allow some use of the mechanic car for a bit.


 
Itv4 commentators said they could hear it cracking....


----------



## Risex4 (4 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> inrng suggests Sagan's brake/gear problems were 'theatrical' and designed to allow some use of the mechanic car for a bit.


 

The thought crossed my mind at the time as well, but seeing as by thrn he had already been joined by half his time off the back, I concluded that a magic spanner was redundant at that point.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (4 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Itv4 commentators said they could hear it cracking....


I think that was his knees


----------



## zizou (4 Jul 2013)

Greipels line going round the bend was pretty important too - it wasn't a tight corner but he had the inside line and Cavendish and Kittel were on the outside and then had to go wider when Henderson peeled off.

If they are all still in the race (and in good condition) its going to be some battle going into the all important final corner on the Champs Elysees.


----------



## Aperitif (5 Jul 2013)

Today's Guardian has the best (so far) batch of pictures from yesterday's stage - evocative of the South...This pic by Joel Saget / AFP / Getty images.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

Nice pics, Apé
My favourite is this one...


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sodding Taaramae lost another 5 minutes today. Useless streak of Estonian ****.


At least your dark horse is still in the race (you never know he might do a "De Gendt" and still end up in the top10 - granted it's very unlikely, but at least there is still hope)


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

Aperitif said:


> Today's Guardian has the best (so far) batch of pictures from yesterday's stage - evocative of the South...


I guess this was for the OGE sequel to "Call Me Maybe"


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

Tour mania is something to see. Wanted to ride this morning, but suddenly realised last night that the roads would be closing pretty early, so I was on the bike for 6.30 and had a great ride. Got down on to the circuit at the end of my loop, and already the gendarmes are all in place at every junction where there's a barrier, Dutch camper vans everywhere with big flags in place, and whole French families already installed at strategic points with picnic tables laid out for the day. I even got clapped and cheered as I went past a couple of groups at the top of a hill. Great fun 
Biking's bloody brilliant.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

Lucky man RD!


----------



## Aperitif (5 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Tour mania is something to see. Wanted to ride this morning, but suddenly realised last night that the roads would be closing pretty early, so I was on the bike for 6.30 and had a great ride. Got down on to the circuit at the end of my loop, and already the gendarmes are all in place at every junction where there's a barrier, Dutch camper vans everywhere with big flags in place, and whole French families already installed at strategic points with picnic tables laid out for the day. I even got clapped and cheered as I went past a couple of groups at the top of a hill. Great fun
> Biking's bloody brilliant.


Lucky, lucky sod! 

Edit: Ooops - great minds thinking alike once again! I'll add another lucky to mine.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Nice pics, Apé
> My favourite is this one...
> 
> View attachment 25685


 

Be good if they could do one of the snails blurred and the cyclists in focus, it would work if it was me on a bike.


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

A bit hilly today. Nothing enormous or outrageously steep so good for rouleurs as opposed to sprinters or grimpeurs.
Improved chances for a breakaway to succeed. Yellow jersey likely to switch - who will get it though ? EBH or Albasini would not be too surprising.







I reckon Voeckler will give it a go today and Sagan could be there or thereabouts at the end.


----------



## VamP (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sodding Taaramae lost another 5 minutes today. Useless streak of Estonian ****.



I've not had a point off him. Not one sodding point!

Him and Mollema have been damn liabilities.


----------



## VamP (5 Jul 2013)

And Pinot. He'd better come good in the mountains!



VamP said:


> I've not had a point off him. Not one sodding point!
> 
> Him and Mollema have been damn liabilities.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I've not had a point off him. Not one sodding point!
> 
> Him and Mollema have been damn liabilities.


 
Still a long way to go! Far too soon to write off Mollema.

Even Taaramae should bag a few points in the mountains. I hope his slacking is a tactical thing because he's going for stage wins rather than GC.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I reckon Voeckler will give it a go today


 
You reckon? Nah, I think he'll sit quietly in the peloton and avoid drawing any attention to himself.

My slightly left-field pick of the day: Navardauskas.


----------



## laurence (5 Jul 2013)

nice article on the beeb site about following le Tour and why...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23183734

most people think i'm crazy when i go and see bike races, so nice to see 'our' perspective written about.


----------



## yello (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You reckon? Nah, I think he'll sit quietly in the peloton and avoid drawing any attention to himself.


 
I believe he's been practising some new gurns (if that is indeed the noun) so he'll definitely show at some point. He's probably in conversation with tour organisers to see when maximum coverage is so as not to disappoint his adoring public.


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> I believe he's been practising some new gurns (if that is indeed the noun) so he'll definitely show at some point. He's probably in conversation with tour organisers to see when maximum coverage is so as not to disappoint his adoring public.


 

What is left to try though ?


----------



## iLB (5 Jul 2013)

Would love to see a smiley Norwegian rider taking the yellow today. And the stage.


----------



## kedab (5 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> A bit hilly today. Nothing enormous or outrageously steep so good for rouleurs as opposed to sprinters or grimpeurs.
> Improved chances for a breakaway to succeed. Yellow jersey likely to switch - who will get it though ? EBH or Albasini would not be too surprising.
> 
> 
> ...


Wiggi..no wait, not him - EBH is a great shout i reckon


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> Would love to see a smiley Norwegian rider taking the yellow today. And the stage.


 
I did initially have him as my pick of the day but I have a reputation for talking shite to uphold so I changed it.


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

ankles just got bitten to f-ck by insects just to take a couple of crappy photos - why do we do it?  
There was a two man break up front at about 2 minutes - AG2R and and a RadioShack.
Oh well, that's it for another year.


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You reckon? Nah, I think he'll sit quietly in the peloton and avoid drawing any attention to himself.
> 
> My slightly left-field pick of the day: Navardauskas.


 
Agree on Voeckler, he has a more interesting stage potentially tomorrow but definitely the day after.
(Points for the KOM for grabs and bigger potential of an escape making it through)

Not digging the Navardauskas guess though... I am going for Poulidor today... I think the frustration must be getting big with him
(and my 1 for 1 streak - that I have built up in the many days since yesterday - shows that gambling on the most frustrated guy is a good strategy)


----------



## biking_fox (5 Jul 2013)

> There was a two man break up front at about 2 minutes - AG2R and and a RadioShack.


 
The Radioshack was none other than Voigt himself busting a gut on a doomed (likely) break in the sun again. Hope he stays clear and wins though, he's in my team.


----------



## kedab (5 Jul 2013)

it's a lovely photo though, raindog


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> ...
> Oh well, that's it for another year


 
You ain't going to make the short trip to see some of the Pyrenees climbs?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2013)

kedab said:


> Wiggi..no wait, not him - EBH is a great shout i reckon


 
And right on cue, EBH has just crashed!

He's okay though and has got back on.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Not digging the Navardauskas guess though...


 
My thinking is that the winner will come from a late attack, probably a rider from a team without real GC ambitions, and Garmin may well fancy this stage. I might have said Kessiakoff, but he's out. Or maybe Albasini can become the third OGE rider in as many days to wear yellow?


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

biking_fox said:


> The Radioshack was none other than Voigt himself busting a gut on a doomed (likely) break in the sun again. Hope he stays clear and wins though, he's in my team.


He was a big, lanky lad - had a feeling it might be Jensy


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> You ain't going to make the short trip to see some of the Pyrenees climbs?


no - couch potato for the rest of the race


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

I wonder .... what if Kadri at one point would start to hold back and suggest they might want to save their strentgh for another day ...
would Voigt say: "Shut up Blel! Do what I tell you to do"


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (5 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> I wonder .... what if Kadri at one point would start to hold back and suggest they might want to save their strentgh for another day ...
> would Voigt say: "Shut up Blel! Do what I tell you to do"


 
I can't watch it now due to other people wanting to watch F*****g Wimbledon, and I also have other things to do anyway, but when I did earlier, Kadri seemed to be wanting the points at the various summits, I don't think he's there to win the stage as such, just to try and get the KOM.

Since AG2R is my 'guilty pleasure' team (they are so bad they are almost good), I hope he actually does well today!! (Dumoulin came 10th yesterday and 11th the day before too by the way, but you wont hear that anywhere).


----------



## Rob3rt (5 Jul 2013)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> *I can't watch it now due to other people wanting to watch F*****g Wimbledon,* and I also have other things to do anyway, but when I did earlier, Kadri seemed to be wanting the points at the various summits.
> Since AG2R is my 'guilty pleasure' team (they are so bad they are almost good), I hope he actually does well today!! (Dumoulin came 10th yesterday and 11th the day before too by the way, but you wont hear that anywhere).


 
The Guardian posted a Wimbledon update in the TdF text feed a bit ago. O.o


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> ...Kadri seemed to be wanting the points at the various summits, I don't think he's there to win the stage as such, just to try and get the KOM.


A valiant effort, but with the peloton bunched now, I assume Rolland will take the points on the next (2) mountain top(s)


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

Come on, Tim!


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Come on, TIM *Jan*!


FTFY


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

So this is going to be Sagan's first win of the race?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So this is going to be Sagan's first win of the race?


I'm just wondering whether Cannondale will still have enough left when they get to the finish.


----------



## dragon72 (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So this is going to be Sagan's first win of the race?


Kiss of death from rich p.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'm just wondering whether Cannondale will still have enough left when they get to the finish.


They are doing an awful lot of work, it's true.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2013)

And Sky haven't done a thing all day, they're bound to try to get EBH into the mix...


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So this is going to be Sagan's first win of the race?


Looks like it now doesn't it. Good effort from Cannondale.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

The team have been doing a lot of work but Sagan has been hiding behind them, and he doesn't normally have a Cav-style leadout anyway...

I'm still holding out for a late solo move - the peloton are going to catch the Bakelants group soon, then the attacks will start...


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

Actually, scrap that, it looks too fast for an attack to escape...


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

Nope Phil, Cannondale haven't led it virtually all the way for Sagan. They only took the lead 3km from the end when the breakaway was caught....


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2013)

Wow, all power to Cannondale!


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

Sagan - Cannondale did do the leg work - nice job


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

Sagan was unbeatable there.

Navardauskas 11th! Not bad!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (5 Jul 2013)

Great team effort pretty well all day from Cannondale, and just when we thought Sagan was going to get nipped by Degenkolb he puts the hammer down, guess he never wanted to let his squad down after all that effort. Nice one.


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2013)

Ok, bollocks to all that, for my money, the phoney war is over. We've had the finger food, tomorrow is the first course:







I've given up on predictions beyond that the yellow jersey will change hands. Presumably Sky will try to assert themselves - it ought to be fun at the end. Time for the grimpeurs to reveal their form.


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

If Saggers hadn't got that one after all the effort, I reckon the lads would've beat him up on the bus afterwards


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (5 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> A valiant effort, but with the peloton bunched now, I assume Rolland will take the points on the next (2) mountain top(s)


 
Ahem! Kadri now has the Polkadot Jersey.... 


I doubt he'll keep it though, but its nice to see AG2R actually win something on TdF for once.


----------



## montage (5 Jul 2013)

Fantastic from Cannondale


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

Thomas and Stannard finished in the bus so are probably still struggling but I am slightly surprised that David Lopez was there and Kiriyenka too. Maybe just resting up after the phoney war.


----------



## dragon72 (5 Jul 2013)

Awesome display from the boys in green.
Now for the GC.
Contrary to what Dave Millar told TV's Ned Boulting the other day, the real race starts tomorrow.


----------



## Aperitif (5 Jul 2013)

When I rolled up the Col des Trieze Vents about five years ago, it was 'taxing' - bollocks to the rest of the stage! Probably 'bollocks' will be "snipped" - but it was quite hard. I wrote about it on a French cycling forum at the time and got a lot of "oui oui" in response. As Thom said, bring on the Ferocious Slopes. 

Edit: bollocks is not snip susceptible. Bollocks.


----------



## Basil.B (5 Jul 2013)

Hope other teams attack Sky tomorrow.
Don't want to see Sky controlling the race from now on.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

Basil.B said:


> Hope other teams attack Sky tomorrow.
> Don't want to see Sky controlling the race from now on.


 I don't think Contador will let that happen.


----------



## Noodley (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I don't think Contador will let that happen.


 
would you steak your reputation on it?


----------



## perplexed (5 Jul 2013)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Ahem! Kadri now has the Polkadot Jersey....
> 
> 
> I doubt he'll keep it though, but its nice to see AG2R actually win something on TdF for once.


 
I like AG2R just because I like pronouncing it with an exaggerated French accent...


----------



## wakou (5 Jul 2013)

perplexed said:


> I like AG2R just because I like pronouncing it with an exaggerated French accent...


And I thought I was the only one....


----------



## jifdave (5 Jul 2013)

wakou said:


> And I thought I was the only one....


 
My french is terrible, I sound like a pirate!

Getting very excited, going over tuesday to catch the end then tt..... froome to take yellow tmorrow?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (5 Jul 2013)

perplexed said:


> I like AG2R just because I like pronouncing it with an exaggerated French accent...


 
Yes I find myself exaggerating certain bits of it too, especially the 'Mondiale' bit. I am glad I am not alone 



User said:


> View attachment 25737


 
Yes I like the tops (I have a long sleeve one) but I have never really liked the shorts. I suppose they might come in useful if you have had a heavy Curry and Lager session the night before, or you are cycling through a lot of mud, but.... other than that....
Ironically, the jersey gets dirty quite quickly because its largely white.

Actually, I was wondering how to improve the kit. Replace the brown with a nice burgandy or similar?? Seriously though, there has to be a colour combination that works on the existing kit when the brown is replaced.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2013)

Well, the green jersey competition is basically over now... unless Sagan gets ill or crashes out.


----------



## zizou (5 Jul 2013)

Good preview of the stage with Dan Lloyd


----------



## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Ahem! Kadri now has the Polkadot Jersey....


Yeah, Bakelants pretty much ruined that prediction,but...

get ready for some bragging... 



The Couch said:


> Not digging the Navardauskas guess though... I am going for Poulidor today... I think the frustration must be getting big with him
> (and my 1 for 1 streak - that I have built up in the many days since yesterday - shows that gambling on the most frustrated guy is a good strategy)


 
The streak is now on 2!!

....which probably brings my correct prediction rate to probably around 0.05% (although I might be optimistic with that)


----------



## Monsieur Remings (5 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> would you steak your reputation on it?


 

There's no point having a beef with Rich over this.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

having climbed a cat4 today that Col de Pailheres looks like a wall, then there's a cat 1 to finish,


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> having climbed a measly cat4 today


 
A strava cat 4?


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

these guys are serious


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

My prediction: Froome in yellow tonight. No messing.


----------



## jifdave (6 Jul 2013)

Yeah he is not the type of rider to sit behind rivals and put time into them at tt's.... gotta meet my parents at 2 for lunch may have to make my escuses at 3 and run home


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

Madiot and the rest of FDJ seem to be thinking that this might be a stage for Pinot. We'll see...maybe that's what they were "rehearsing" for on the stage in Corsica?


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Madiot and the rest of FDJ seem to be thinking that this might be a stage for Pinot. We'll see...maybe that's what they were "rehearsing" for on the stage in Corsica?


 
about bloody time


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> My prediction: Froome in yellow tonight. No messing.


 
I sneakily suspect it might be Kwiatkowski.


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

ITV4 have put on Tommy Cooper between the highlights from yesterday and today's live coverage. OMG! He was so crap!!


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> ITV4 have put on Tommy Cooper between the highlights from yesterday and today's live coverage. OMG! He was so crap!!


Is he funnier than the 2 Muppets?


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Has Blel Kadri got less ridiculous shorts on than Rolland did?


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Has Blel Kadri got less ridiculous shorts on than Rolland did?


 
As I was reading this post, I looked at the screen and there was Blel and his spotty shorts...


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Is he funnier than the 2 Muppets?


 
I think he may have fathered them both.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Quintana is having a good go


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2013)

What a climber - looks as if he's floating.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Well Lopez cracked early again. Kennaugh is looking like a super dom though


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2013)

I'd love to see Quintana in yellow tonight


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

This should be some final climb.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

Quintana could climb a sheer cliff.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Wonder if this will be the point where Froome bridges the gap and shows his form. I'd like Quintana to take this though.....
​


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Thought so. He's impressive right now.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

Off he goes.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

blimey it's a 2 horse race at the mo - Froomedawg and RP


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Ten Dam going away from Bertie and Evans et al


----------



## threebikesmcginty (6 Jul 2013)

Go dawg go!


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger should leave AC


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Makes you wonder why Quintana didn't try at the final climb instead of the first. He might of stood a chance then.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Froome rides like a bag of spanners but a fast bag!


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

what a win from the dawg


----------



## RWright (6 Jul 2013)

Froome! Awesome ride to the finish.


----------



## fossyant (6 Jul 2013)

Get in Froome and Porte. Just watched this sat on the beach via my phone.


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2013)

.......hmmmmmmm


----------



## TVC (6 Jul 2013)

farking itv4, at a 5 min break when Froome went. Have to watch the highlights now.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2013)

Looks like the tour has been won - Bertie 1'46 down.

It looks as if Sky will be riding defensively from now to the finish, but the main plus means that Saxobank, Katusha, Movistar and any others will have to attack either in the next few days or in the Alps to stand any sort of chance at the GC. It should be exciting stuff.

Felt a bit for Quintana Roo but what a day....and very glad that the Movistar 1,2 tactical didn't work out. I would have felt differently if the roles had been reversed and it was Quintana Roo playing Valverde at the end.

Well done Froome, Richie Porte and the rest of Team Sky.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2013)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> f***ing itv4, at a 5 min break when Froome went. Have to watch the highlights now.


 

Eurosport missed most of Quintana's shaky descending.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

The ad breaks are as gruelling as the climbing.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> .......hmmmmmmm


 
Indeed.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2013)

anyone got any VAMs?


----------



## mrbadexample (6 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> ...Mollema have been damn liabilities.


 

Better now?


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2013)

mrbadexample said:


> Better now?


 
It's small salve on the pain of thinking Kwiatkowski might stay with Froome today


----------



## iLB (6 Jul 2013)

Anyone else catch the Porte interview on ITV, came across as disrespectful/dismissive of Nairo Quintana to me?


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> Anyone else catch the Porte interview on ITV, came across as disrespectful/dismissive of Nairo Quintana to me?


 
He described the move by Quintana as ''what was he thinking?'' but pulled short of calling it naïve when prompted. It was a desperate move by Quintana as borne out by the result. I don't think he was being disrespectful.


----------



## Winnershsaint (6 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Indeed.


CN Forums gone down. Has 'The Clinic' self destructed or disappeared up it's own collective armholes?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2013)

yes, The Clinic Has Crashed


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (6 Jul 2013)

Well done Froome Dawg!!

Has Kadri even finished yet??  I'd love to know what place he comes in.
However (I did say previously that AG2R is my 'guilty pleasure' team, I'm sure we all have them, even though most probably wont want to admit to it ) Peraud and Bardet came in 13th and 14th, so not all bad, although they were 2.28 and 2.34 down respectively!


----------



## jifdave (6 Jul 2013)

well there was lots of talk of dan martin before the tour....

thought schleck did fine today


----------



## jifdave (6 Jul 2013)

sky jersey very interesting too..... its very holey for want of a better term.... you could see as froome finished and also porte interview its see through.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

I know I keep banging on about this but David Lopez, Siutsou and EBH are underperforming iy seems to me. EBH has contested some sprints but he was a lot stronger in support of Wiggins last year. Kimmage may have a point.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I know I keep banging on about this but David Lopez, Siutsou and EBH are underperforming iy seems to me. EBH has contested some sprints but he was a lot stronger in support of Wiggins last year. Kimmage may have a point.


That sky are doping but Lopez, EBH and Suitsou are not? There is plenty of talk about it on other forums but i just don't buy it. They have made too firm a point by removing ex dopers from their set up. I seriously hope nothing fishy is going on, it would be quite literally shite.


----------



## Basil.B (6 Jul 2013)

Great stage, pity about the result.
Great ride by Quintana. 
Was gutted when after the advert break he had been caught.
Hope the Tour doesn't turn boring now Sky are leading.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2013)

User said:


> probably caused by this..... Best times up Ax-3-Domaines
> 1. Laiseka 2001 22:57
> 2. Armstrong 22:59 2001
> 3. Froome 23:14 2013.


Those times don't seem correct. Here's a good article for anyone who speaks power. We need to know what Froome's actual time was but even at 23:14, it looks believable.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/07/ax-3-domaines-history-vams-and.html


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Those times don't seem correct. Here's a good article for anyone who speaks power. We need to know what Froome's actual time was but even at 23:14, it looks believable.
> 
> http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/07/ax-3-domaines-history-vams-and.html


Yeh i am hearing 23:15 so the time seems right. He does have a rather impressive watts/kg though. He weighs somewhere in the region of 70kg's, more likely 68-69kg's during the Tour. For someone who is 6 foot+ that's pretty light. He must average 6 to 6.5watts/kg up these climbs, when he is at max. To be able to sustain that for 20-30+ minutes is the tricky part. He is clearly in peak fitness and todays result proves that. No reason to suspect anything else imo.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2013)

Depends on the wind as well, as anyone who's ever set a PR over a strava segment should honestly tell you!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Depends on the wind as well, as anyone who's ever set a PR over a strava segment should honestly tell you!


I don't know what you mean, all my KOM's are into headwinds.


----------



## rliu (6 Jul 2013)

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2013/07/07/1226675/416560-chris-froome.jpg
Froomey in the Sky with Edgar


----------



## fossyant (6 Jul 2013)

I couldnt believe the number and length of flaming adverts . I kept stopping catch up TV whilst I was out as I wasnt about to use a stack of data on bloody adverts.

Froome looked very strong, but ITV only picked it up after the attack. Idiots.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

It is also the first climb of the tour so they will be relatively fresher than in the last week, say.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

Been out all day so just caught up on the highlights. Blimey. Amazing ride by Froome. Even had time for some Tommy V impersonations in the final few km.  

I was really rooting for Quintana on the final climb but kind of knew it was never going to happen. Shame. Great effort though. 

Very pleased to see Mollema up there too. And what about Laurens Ten Dam! Awesome.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

Oh yeah, almost forgot... Pete bloody Kennaugh. Fantastic.


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

I'd rather have a "niaive" Quintana attacking than watch everyone else sit behind Sky trying to lose as little time as possible and 'fighting it out' for a top 10 GC place...


----------



## perplexed (6 Jul 2013)

I noticed that the main BBC evening news were banging on about some bat and ball competition in London, and lots of big men wrestling with each other in Australia, but spectacularly 100% failed to mention the Tour de France at all.


----------



## fossyant (6 Jul 2013)

perplexed said:


> I noticed that the main BBC evening news were banging on about some bat and ball competition in London, and lots of big men wrestling with each other in Australia, but spectacularly 100% failed to mention the Tour de France at all.



Thats like my nephew. Big into his sport, moaning that England are crap at all sport, till I remind him our cyclists do rather well at all levels.


----------



## fozy tornip (6 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> That sky are doping but Lopez, EBH and Suitsou are not? There is plenty of talk about it on other forums but i just don't buy it. *They have made too firm a point by removing ex dopers from their set up.* I seriously hope nothing fishy is going on, it would be quite literally s***e.


Yates and Leinders were conspicuous in their association with doping, sacrificially let go perhaps, and only reactively when the heat was on.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I'd rather have a "niaive" Quintana attacking than watch everyone else sit behind Sky trying to lose as little time as possible and 'fighting it out' for a top 10 GC place...


Quite. And I'm not sure of the naive tag either - he comes away having animated the race, wearing the white jersey, and pockets a €5000 prize for topping Paillères, the highest point of the tour. Not a bad haul for a 23-year old, all in all. I suspect there'll be a fair few similar challenges from other riders in this tour. 


And doesn't he look smooth on a bike!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I'd rather have a "niaive" Quintana attacking than watch everyone else sit behind Sky trying to lose as little time as possible and 'fighting it out' for a top 10 GC place...


Great for us to watch but would he be 2 minutes down on GC had he decided to attack on the last climb and not the first? He would likely have been in the same ball park as Porte and we would be hailing his performance. As it stands though he has had a pretty bad day in terms of GC. The upside is that the cycling world is now VERY aware of his potential and if anyone didn't know the name Quintana then they will now.


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2013)

Quintana interviewed said it was a deliberate ploy and Valverde was to sit on Froome while they responded. Sitting on him is the only way I can think of to stop him winning.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Quintana interviewed said it was a deliberate ploy and Valverde was to sit on Froome while they responded. Sitting on him is the only way I can think of to stop him winning.


 

Yep, that's the way i read it, or rather took it for granted.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

To be fair, it was the right tactic - it forced Sky to play their hand probably earlier than they'd planned. Unfortunately, it was everyone except Froome and Porte who suffered as a result. 

I imagine they'll try the same again - and it might even work. Froome won't be able to ride like that every day.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

As a tactic then, one can conclude it was a failure. All it really achieved was to make Sky go full gas in an attempt to catch Quintana and in the process counter attack the entire GC. Both Quintana and Valverde lost considerable time to Sky/Froome. Had they let Sky control proceedings until AX 3 Domaines then they could have attacked or at least attempted to hold the wheel in front. Played right in to Sky's hands imo. Froome has done it all year - kept it high paced and tright until the final few km's then ripped it apart.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> As it stands though he has had a pretty bad day in terms of GC.



Yeah, unlike that other great young hope Tejay, who played a much more sensible game tactically and... oh...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> To be fair, it was the right tactic - it forced Sky to play their hand probably earlier than they'd planned. Unfortunately, it was everyone except Froome and Porte who suffered as a result.
> 
> I imagine they'll try the same again - and it might even work. Froome won't be able to ride like that every day.


If you are aiming for a top ten finish then it was a sound tactic. If you want podium then it was poking the bear.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Both Quintana and Valverde lost considerable time to Sky/Froome.



...but a lot less time than nearly everyone else.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, unlike that other great young hope Tejay, who played a much more sensible game tactically and... oh...


TJ don't climb like Quintana.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> ...but a lot less time than nearly everyone else.


I actually think the first two places on the podium will be near enough set in stone, barring incident. Such is the superiority of Porte and Froome.

The rest may or may not be aware that they are racing for 3rd to 10th.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> If you are aiming for a top ten finish then it was a sound tactic. If you want podium then it was poking the bear.



Well, at least now they know how strong the bear is!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Well, at least now they know how strong the bear is!


Yeh but they are now missing an arm! 

I wonder how far we could take this metaphor?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (6 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I wonder how far we could take this metaphor?



You're flogging a dead horse, metaphors are for nobbers.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 Jul 2013)

Well that's my afternoons freed up for the rest of July now.


----------



## mrbadexample (6 Jul 2013)

perplexed said:


> and lots of big men wrestling with each other in Australia, but spectacularly 100% failed to mention the Tour de France at all.


 

Sorry, but it was desperately important that the Lions gave the Shackledraggers a pasting. Set the day up nicely for main event in the afternoon.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Jul 2013)

Froome's performance was, I'm afraid, well into suspicious territory according to the Science in Sport analysis, so some scepticism is justified. However, the most important part of that articles is this:

"Ax-3-Domaines offers the same "qualified hope" - the top 12 performances pre-date this era (and then it is Menchov), though the climb is too new and infrequent to have the strength of history to really support any historical comparisons. That's why I'd caution against isolating today's performance, whether it is super fast or slow, and using it as "proof" of anything. Aside from the fact that performance will never prove clean vs doped, it's important to let the whole Tour unfold, with dozens of mountains, and then look at the climbs in context, with a big picture view."

We will have to wait and see. If Froome does this kind of thing regularly in the rest of the Tour and looks this easy, then the suspicions will get stronger. Wiggins last year certainly did not look easy at all; he was practically being dragged by the hair up some climbs by Froome.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Jul 2013)

SiS also mentions the possibilty that Froome put so much time into everyone else on this first big climb that all he needs to do now is hold off any attacks, so there will perhaps not be any 'collection of climbs' to analyse. I sure hope all is squeaky clean in sky, and everyone eslse too, but as FM says, with only Froome and Porte clocking up > 6.3 w/kg then suspicions will always be aroused, sad to say.


----------



## PpPete (7 Jul 2013)

Well, if they are not clean my guess is they have discovered something that is as yet (and for the foreseeable future) undetectable / unknown to the rest of the peloton.

Most of the second week might not have much excitement, but if Froome & Porte carry only the same time gaps there are places where they might be isolated/vulnerable later. Ventoux is a very long (242km) stage to control, especially if they've lost any of the "big diesels" before then. And the descent between the two ascents of Alpe d'Huez is maybe a place for a brave/foolhardy man to go on the attack. Froome is not the greatest descender in the peloton, may not want to take risks with yellow on his shoulders, especially if most of his domestiques have been used up on the first ascent?


----------



## SWSteve (7 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> Froome is not the greatest descender in the peloton, may not want to take risks with yellow on his shoulders, especially if most of his domestiques have been used up on the first ascent?


 
If the yellow has slipped from his shoulders he may attack, and win it back again.

I don't see why Sky may not have looked at this stage and thought "This is our big chance to take some time out of everyone else, one huge climb followed by another, let's do this" meaning they could go all guns today and then just stay with everyone else for tomorrow and then playing the rest by ear. I understand that could be viewed as naive, but if that works then you can't blame them.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Jul 2013)

On another note, is everyone who comments on the Cyclingnews Tour coverage a troll or an idiot or both?


----------



## Beebo (7 Jul 2013)

As a counter arguement, if I was doping I would try to look as normal as possible to avoid suspicion, not go nuts on the first climb


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (7 Jul 2013)

Froome says it's all 100% clean

"For me, it is a bit of a personal mission to show that the sport has changed. I certainly know that the results I’m getting are not going to be stripped in 10, 20 years’ time.
“It’s not going to happen."

Glad that's cleared up.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (7 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


> As a counter arguement, if I was doping I would try to look as normal as possible to avoid suspicion, not go nuts on the first climb


Or maybe they would expect that, kind of like reverse psychology? So maybe to counter that you go up it as hard as possible to give the impression that you obviously wouldn't do that if doping.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Froome says it's all 100% clean
> 
> "For me, it is a bit of a personal mission to show that the sport has changed. I certainly know that the results I’m getting are not going to be stripped in 10, 20 years’ time.
> “It’s not going to happen."
> ...


I read that last night on the L'équipe site. There was a further Wiggins quote:


> Whoever spends any time with the team will see that these results are the result of months and months of preparation, training camps at altitude. There's also all the team support when we're not on the bike, support for my fiancée back at home. If people could see that, they'd be able to understand and wouldn't say that it was unbelievable.


(note: this is a back translation from French, therefore not verbatim.)


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (7 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I read that last night on the L'équipe site. There was a further Wiggins quote:
> 
> (note: this is a back translation from French, therefore not verbatim.)


Is that Wiggo quote RE this tour or the 2012?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Is that Wiggo quote RE this tour or the 2012?


The article doesn't say and it does indeed sound rather familiar. But to tell the truth my memory isn't good enough to be sure.

EDIT: to put the right link in this time!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> We will have to wait and see. If Froome does this kind of thing regularly in the rest of the Tour and looks this easy, then the suspicions will get stronger.



I thought Froome looked like he was genuinely suffering by the end of that climb yesterday. The effort will have taken a lot out of him. Hence my earlier comment that he can't ride like that every day. (Of course, if it turns out he _can_ ride like that every day, I'll be as suspicious as any Clinic dweller.)

The good news for him now is that he doesn't need to do that again. But Sky will still need to keep a high tempo on the climbs or they'll be subject to a barrage of attacks - everyone will gang up against them like in the Vuelta last year. 

I don't think this race is over yet - mainly because I believe Froome is clean.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I actually think the first two places on the podium will be near enough set in stone, barring incident. Such is the superiority of Porte and Froome.
> 
> The rest may or may not be aware that they are racing for 3rd to 10th.


 
It's just possible (but no more) that Froome will be a bit tired on today's stage, and that Quintana will go again. And one has to say this for Movistar - they're giving it a go.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Today's stage looks pure evil. It is not going to be easy for Sky to control the race.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> First African in yellow...



They're like London buses - you wait 100 years, then two come at once...


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2013)

Yesterday's result forces others to look to gain time back and what better day to do it than today. Sky could be ganged up on, and covering attacks all day will leave them in need of tomorrow's rest day! If smutchin's comment is right (and let's hope it is) and Froome can't ride like that again today, then we could see his lead reduced... or even lost??? A potentially interesting day is in store.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2013)

Yeah the race finally gets interesting once one of the GC contenders is in yellow.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Yesterday's result forces others to look to gain time back and what better day to do it than today. Sky could be ganged up on, and covering attacks all day will leave them in need of tomorrow's rest day! If smutchin's comment is right (and let's hope it is) and Froome can't ride like that again today, then we could see his lead reduced... or even lost??? A potentially interesting day is in store.


so interesting, Mr. Yello, that Agent Hilda is insisting on watching the last four hours of the stage on telly. This is surely the kind of foundation that marriage should be built on!


----------



## lukesdad (7 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Yeah the race finally gets interesting once one of the GC contenders is in yellow.


 
Well one would hope so, Rolland against Quintana for the polka dot could be a good battle. I think 2 of the jerseys are sorted barring mis-fortune, could end up being a fortnight of one day races which would be interesting come on the french get your act together !


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2013)

On the subject of 'the french', I was a tad surprised how quickly Tommy V's effort yesterday came to nought. He's not got his legs yet.

I like ld's thought of 2 weeks of 1 dayers; that'd do me!


----------



## oldroadman (7 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> On another note, *is everyone who comments on the Cyclingnews Tour coverage a troll or an idiot or both?*



They mostly (looking at the spelling/grammar, or lack of it) seem to be posting from over the Atlantic. Where conspiracy rules, it would seem. After Lance, they can't believe anyone can do anything clean. Therefore you could deduce they are both trolls and intellectually challenged.


----------



## oldroadman (7 Jul 2013)

Whoever thought Froome looked as if he was climbing "easily" must have been watching different coverage to me! Climbing "easily" is what happened in the LA/Riis era, when riders would produce 6+ watts/kg sitting comfortably and closed mouth, looking like they were just super comfortable, day after day. Looking at the faces (copyright Tommy V) on Kennaugh and Porte -Carlton Kirby said he was grinning, so I guess he's never ridden up a col, and certainly not at race pace - this was no "easy" ride, and Froome was putting himself through all kinds of pain on the last climb.
As for Bertie, maybe what showed yesterday was his real ability? Who knows.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Has anyone mentioned Nieve? He had a pretty good day too, quietly climbed a good way up GC. Too far behind to be a threat though. 

Today's prediction: Dan Martin. Or Bauke Mollema.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2013)

oldroadman said:


> this was no "easy" ride, and Froome was putting himself through all kinds of pain on the last climb.


 
In fairness, I don't think anyone (here) has suggested it was easy, nor that Froome wasn't going well into the red. I think it's more that he did and others couldn't. Nobody could even remotely answer him. But let's see what today brings.


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

I think Froome will attack on the last hill again, distance the original GC threats and gain another 30 seconds. A break may win the stage! You heard it hear first - maybe. Pinot FTW


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> In fairness, I don't think anyone (here) has suggested it was easy, nor that Froome wasn't going well into the red. I think it's more that he did and others couldn't. Nobody could even remotely answer him. But let's see what today brings.


I think FM in his post suggested Froome looked easy but I agree with ORM that he was on the limit and it looked far from easy.
Yesterday Carlton Kirby drove me insane with his inane babbling. Richie Porte and Froome weren't grinning, you fecking idiot - they were grimacing and sucking in air. Someone should tell him that letting the pictures tell the story is sometimes enough. The Richie Benaud school of commentary.
Kirby and Kelly didn't even spot that Kiryenka had dropped off on the penultimate hill. I may turn the sound off today


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Live coverage about to start on ES. Six whole hours of the wisdom of Kirby and Kelly. I can't imagine a better way to spend a Sunday.


----------



## Herzog (7 Jul 2013)

Rolland to go point hunting today...?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Dan Lloyd's pick of the day is Cunego. Sean Yates has gone for Nieve. Interesting.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Yikes! Kennaugh just went of the side of the road into a ditch full of hawthorn bushes! Ouchouchouchouchouch!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

They'll miss Kennaugh if he doesn't get back on


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

The race is already being blown wide open on the first climb...


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

bugger me Lopez is fecked on the first hill FFS


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Froome on his own! No teammates at all!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

blimey Froome already isolated


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Porte back with Froome


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Movistar looking strong. Garmin riding aggressively. Saxo also there in numbers. Porte the only Sky man left with Froome after the first of five climbs...

Did someone say this race was already over?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Porte's gone. Properly gone. He ain't coming back this time. 

Tommy D off the front. (That's not a typo.  )


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Is that a griffon vulture looking for Sky's dead riders?


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2013)

wtf just tuned in, where's the peleton/sky train?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

I think it being such a lumpy stage will help Froome as there is less scope for a team effort
and I expect him to still be the best climber


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

My pick of the day, Pinot, has already done a Napoleon...
...Blonaparte...


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> wtf just tuned in, where's the peleton/sky train?



You've missed an hour of fantastic racing already! This is incredible.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2013)

Kennaugh could have helped him descent though.

Porte looks out of it already.


----------



## jifdave (7 Jul 2013)

If Porte is doping he's not doing a very good job of it....


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> My pick of the day, Pinot, has already done a Napoleon...
> ...Blonaparte...



Even worse - my predictions are proving alarmingly accurate so far. My reputation for talking bollocks could be under threat here!


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Froome rides like a bag of spanners but a fast bag!


just think how quick he'll be when he learns to ride a bike properly.......


----------



## Hip Priest (7 Jul 2013)

This has come as a bit of a surprise.

Bit of a blow to the Froome, Murray, Hamilton treble I put on this morning!


----------



## perplexed (7 Jul 2013)

Last year I had Wiggo worries.

Now I have Froome frets.


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Froome v Valverde! Great stuff


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

These 3 could conceivably get away on the Peyresourde


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

I've got to go and do some shopping but I can't take my eyes off this. Dammit, the family will just have to starve...


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2013)

This is bonkers. Racing in the 70s used to be like this. Isn't it bloody great?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Bertie needs to respond at some point


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Froome is getting a relatively free tow


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Movistar look like a team with a plan today.


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Valverde gets 2nd place and distances all the rest


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Bertie needs to respond at some point



Saxo are still there in numbers and there's still a long way to go... I'm not counting them out yet.


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2013)

I'm worried about the sprinters making it within the time limit today


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

True Smutch


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> wtf just tuned in, where's the peleton/sky train?


 
It looks like Mr Quintana's tactically niaive riding of yesterday may have hurt their legs a bit


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> It looks like Mr Quintana's tactically niaive riding of yesterday may have hurt their legs a bit


Is that Mikel Niaive of Euskaltel?


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

hmmm.......AH has just bought me my lunch. And a glass of chilled white wine from Spain. Does this bode well for Movistar?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Question: is Ryder going for it or is he setting something up for Martin?

Or are Garmin making it up as they go along?


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Question: is Ryder going for it or is he setting something up for Martin?
> 
> Or are Garmin making it up as they go along?


 
I think it might be the latter option...


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

"@irishpeloton: This stage is mental. Best Tour stage since A.Schleck went bananas in the Alps in 2011."


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I think FM in his post suggested Froome looked easy but I agree with ORM that he was on the limit and it looked far from easy.


 
It's called overstatement. The same way that Froome wasn't _really_ pulling Wiggins up by his hair last year...


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

I got the shopping done, by the way. Fastest shop ever. The way I was haring round Sainsbury's with my trolley was strangely reminiscent of something...


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Kelly thinks Clarke is behind the breakaway FFS


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

The twats have just realised


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Mollema and Ten Dam still looking strong. Mollema still getting barely a mention in the commentary.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Chapeau Amador.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

is Porte really gaining on the yellow jersey group?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> is Porte really gaining on the yellow jersey group?


No, the idiots thought that the 51 seconds was behind today but it's what he was behind CF yesterday


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

that must be it, Rich, because they've just put him back a minute.


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

The idiot Kirby still thinks that


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

If I knew how to tweet the idiot I would!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

I'll just tweet him with contempt


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Schleck is still in the lead group. 

So is Serpa - vamos colombianos!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Watch ITV instead, Rich - Sherwen is a mine of information. 

Such as the fact that RPM stands for "Rhythms Per Minute".


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Watch ITV instead, Rich - Sherwen is a mine of information.
> 
> Such as the fact that RPM stands for "Rhythms Per Minute".


I was going to turn the sound off wasn't I? !!!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I was going to turn the sound off wasn't I? !!!


I do for the ads - bloody Turkish Airlines


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

You can't turn this off - it's comedy gold!


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2013)

Come on Tim !


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Come on Tim !


Tim?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

Henman?


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Tim?


Irony...


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Irony...


Ah!


----------



## PpPete (7 Jul 2013)

Another classic from Kirby a bit ago.... thinks the French President shares surname with the polka dot wearer: Roland and has first name Dominic
well, nearly,.....
how about Francois Hollande ?


----------



## PpPete (7 Jul 2013)

Household chores?
Shopping ?
Wimbledon final ?

no chance - utterly gripped by this


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

If it was a mtn top finish it would be more of a test


----------



## threebikesmcginty (7 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Irony...



FE!


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> Another classic from Kirby a bit ago.... thinks the French President shares surname with the polka dot wearer: Roland and has first name Dominic
> well, nearly,.....
> how about Francois Hollande ?


 
this bloke?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Quintana vs Froome...?


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Ah!


The one sport my girlfriend actually likes watching is the frigging tennis...

And she ain't that impressed when I plead that Quintana is about to attack froome on the way up before valverde to attack on the way down. Movistar on a stormer. My configuration in girlfriend's flat is tennis on tv, cycling on computer and cyclechat on the phone. Modern woes....


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Allez Dan!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Schleck!!!


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

Movistar and Saxo could knacker Froome here if they play it properly


----------



## Herzog (7 Jul 2013)

Nice to see AS back in the game...until the descent.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

movistar look to have made a bollix of this


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

it's gone a bit Pete Tong for Movistar now - they're having to chase to defend the white jersey. I'm switching to fizz!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Today's prediction: Dan Martin. Or Bauke Mollema.



Beginning to wish I'd put money on this...


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

I wonder if Sky have food poisoning? It seems too weird


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Beginning to wish I'd put money on this...


You could have recouped some of the virtual money you have lost every other day|!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Jul 2013)

just in from the eddie morgan memorial race, and great to see dan up front. Also pleased Froome did not go for the 100% yellow outfit.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

'60 kilometres an hour - put that in old money, Phil, that's about 40 miles an hour'


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Jul 2013)

I just hope the lead pair dont start with le chat et le souris games, cant afford to let up at all.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Jul 2013)

YES !!! oh danny boy !


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (7 Jul 2013)

IRELAND!!!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Jul 2013)

Porte must have forgot to eat his Wheaties this morning.


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2013)

Fantastic win for Dan there - well done lad!


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2013)

Froome did awesome there. Well done Movistar for shaking it up and chapeau Dan Martin.
Back in blighty, Murray won the first set - something of an epic going on.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Brilliant. A very well deserved stage win for Garmin - they blew the race open from the start and have been riding aggressively all day. 

Movistar should be pretty happy too - they probably knew they wouldn't shake Froome off today but they've got rid of Porte. They can have another dig at Froome in the Alps.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Brilliant. A very well deserved stage win for Garmin - they blew the race open from the start and have been riding aggressively all day.
> 
> Movistar should be pretty happy too - they probably knew they wouldn't shake Froome off today but they've got rid of Porte. They can have another dig at Froome in the Alps.


Opened a gaping wound, just to pour the salt in on Tuesday


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Movistar and Saxo could knacker Froome here if they play it properly


 
They didn't though, opportunity missed or simply that Froome is too strong?


----------



## Hip Priest (7 Jul 2013)

In the last two days we've seen victories for a Briton from Kenya, and an Irishman from Birmingham!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> They didn't though, opportunity missed or simply that Froome is too strong?



I think they need a summit finish to attack Froome. 

Great interview with Schleck on ITV just now - he reckons Movistar blew their opportunity. Also reckons Contador looks strong. 

Still no one talking about Mollema as a GC contender. Am I missing something?


----------



## jifdave (7 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> well there was lots of talk of dan martin before the tour....
> 
> thought schleck did fine today


 


User said:


> DM 2:34 and 15th not to bad


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2013)

Bahamontes is at the finish today - how cool is that? 
He was born in 1928 and he still looks fit and healthy. They just presented him with a climber's jersey.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2013)

I can't help but feel that there was a set of circumstances today that ought to have been seized upon. You've got to grab such opportunities as they present themselves or you might as well give up and hand Froome yellow now. On a number of occasions, the French commentators referred to Froome as 'enemy number one'. I could see what they meant. Teams should have been taking turns to attack and make him respond. They let him sit in for the most part.

Respect to Froome though. He did all that he had too, all that was asked of him and it was a hard day for him. He's certainly earned his jersey so far.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2013)

I thought Froome rode a composed, defensive stage and didn't panic when his team vanished.

Sky have got a lot to do though now they need Porte etc back soon.

Maybe the rest day will help.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> They didn't though, opportunity missed or simply that Froome is too strong?


possibly a bit of both. Chris Boardman reckoned they should have sent Quintana away on the penultimate climb, but that might have meant sacrificing his white jersey in the hope that Valverde would storm to a win. Maybe somebody calculated that wasn't going to happen, and that grabbing second place was as good as it was going to get. And there's still the Alps to come - Movistar now know that Sky are not supermen.


----------



## RobNewcastle (7 Jul 2013)

Yeah that was a good point made by Boardman. Still find it very surprising that Sky could lose so many riders so early. Lopez looked like he was struggling yesterday and couldn't do as long a turn on the front as he normally would and Sistsou was nowhere.

Impressive that Froome came through a potentially dangerous situation unscathed. Assuming things go as you'd expect he'll out more time into people in the time trial on we'd but at least the Ventoux and Alps will be more interesting now with Movistar pushing things on.


----------



## ColinJ (7 Jul 2013)

After all the talk about today's time limit potentially being a problem for the sprinters, they all came in safely with about 10 minutes in hand, about 26 minutes down on Dan Martin's time. The one rider who didn't make the cut was Kiryienka so that is another blow for Sky.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> I can't help but feel that there was a set of circumstances today that ought to have been seized upon. You've got to grab such opportunities as they present themselves or you might as well give up and hand Froome yellow now. On a number of occasions, the French commentators referred to Froome as 'enemy number one'. I could see what they meant. Teams should have been taking turns to attack and make him respond. They let him sit in for the most part.
> 
> Respect to Froome though. He did all that he had too, all that was asked of him and it was a hard day for him. He's certainly earned his jersey so far.


 
I thought Saxo and Movistar had an ideal opportunity to take Froome on today, they had the numbers and legs to do it. They may not have another opportunity to have Froome in a position with no support, and potentially they blew it big time. I realise there's a long way to go and that they also need to consider "other things" but ... FFS!!


----------



## RobNewcastle (7 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I thought Saxo and Movistar had an ideal opportunity to take Froome on today, they had the numbers and legs to do it. They may not have another opportunity to have Froome in a position with no support, and potentially they blew it big time. I realise there's a long way to go and that they also need to consider "other things" but ... FFS!!



Yeah I think a few teams will be regretting things a bit. Like you say saxo should've really pushed things on with Movistar. Rare that the yellow jersey will get so utterly isolated like that in the mountains


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> The one rider who didn't make the cut was Kiryienka so that is another blow for Sky.



I just saw that when I was looking down the standings to see where Taaramae finished (he lost another 26 mins, btw). 

Anyone know what happened? He was the last Sky man to fall before Porte, so that was a big surprise. 

Kennaugh finished alongside Thomas, 22.43 down - any news on his injuries? EBH, Stannard, Lopez and Siutsou were another few minutes behind, in the Cav group.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2013)

I await explanations of what happened to the Sky team, perhaps they were abducted by aliens the night before. One thing Kennaugh said on interview the other day is that he's never seen Froome have a bad day, thank feck is all I can say because as bad days go, that was reminiscent of a PDM/Motorola showing and I imagine there's already a few people blowing a gasket over it.

Great day though and perhaps Moviestar were just totally unprepared for Sky to fold like that.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Great day though and perhaps Moviestar were just totally unprepared for Sky to fold like that.


 
If a middle-aged duffer like me can see what Movistar (and Saxo) should have been doing, ill-informed as I was by Liggett and Sherwen, then surely Movistar (and Saxo) should have been able to see it as well and respond accordingly.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

What they should have done and what they were able to do may not be the same thing.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> What they should have done and what they were able to do may not be the same thing.


 
True, however they had strength in numbers and failed to make the right call in my opinion. Both teams could have driven a few nails into Froome and Sky's coffin today if they had worked together - they could have quite easily done so with neither team upstaging the other in terms of gains made. Other than the huge gain of sticking it to Froome and Sky.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

That's not taking anything away from Fromedawg, as I thought he rode a very composed and effective stage today. And he may have been able to cover any attacks launched by Movistar and/or Saxo...but we'll never know.


----------



## RobNewcastle (7 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> That's not taking anything away from Fromedawg, as I thought he rode a very composed and effective stage today. And he may have been able to cover any attacks launched by Movistar and/or Saxo...but we'll never know.



Yeah some good points made mate. Given that Froome will probably put time into everyone on Wednesday in the TT then not making Sky pay today may come back to haunt them. I mean no riders to support him, Brailsfords should be doing a war dance in the team bus. Like the abducted by aliens comment, haha


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I await explanations of what happened to the Sky team



We look for explanations when they win, we look for explanations when they don't win...

Could it be that there's a link between their exceptional performance yesterday and their looking tired today? Is losing Kiryienka the price they pay for blowing the race apart yesterday? (And let's not forget that blowing the race apart yesterday was a move they were pretty much forced to make by Movistar.)

Movistar's tactics over the last two days have left Sky weakened, that's for sure. It says a lot about Froome's strength and form that they've failed to hurt him individually. Still two weeks of racing to go though...


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2013)

Perhaps they should fit Marathon Plus tyres to Froome's Pinarello. Had he punctured today, the headlines would probably have been very different.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> We look for explanations when they win, we look for explanations when they don't win...
> 
> Could it be that there's a link between their exceptional performance yesterday and their looking tired today? Is losing Kiryienka the price they pay for blowing the race apart yesterday? (And let's not forget that blowing the race apart yesterday was a move they were pretty much forced to make by Movistar.)
> 
> Movistar's tactics over the last two days have left Sky weakened, that's for sure. It says a lot about Froome's strength and form that they've failed to hurt him individually. Still two weeks of racing to go though...


 
I do looking for explanations best. You keep knocking your punditry but believe me it's streets ahead of mine. I predicted the Lions to lose and Murray to capitulate....

I suspect you're right, fatigue, heat, combined with some bad luck which saw Kennaugh go truffle hunting, may well be the explanation but at the back of my mind I wonder if their training camps have gone a bit wrong and whether the team selection was right.

Anyway tomorrow I'm predicting Froome to stay in yellow......


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

I thought "the young rider from the Isle of Man" (as Liggett and Sherwen refer to him, no doubt as they have not a clue how to pronounce his name - it's ok to get "foreigners" names wrong but not our own it seems) had gone for a quick p*ss when I saw him climbing back up the hill from the bushes...


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## Crackle (7 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I thought "the young rider from the Isle of Man" (as Liggett and Sherwen refer to him, no doubt as they have not a clue how to pronounce his name - it's ok to get "foreigners" names wrong but not our own it seems) had gone for a quick p*ss when I saw him climbing back up the hill from the bushes...


Kennoy or kennow they keep saying.


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Kennoy or kennow they keep saying.


 
I have heard various attempts from them: Kennow, Kanook, Kennoy, Kenyick, Vocht...


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## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2013)

He was Kennug yesterday.


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2013)

That as well


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## Auntie Helen (7 Jul 2013)

I get to watch the Phil 'n Paul show each day and the thing that's irritating me (well, one of the things) is that Paul seems unable to say "in July" but has to say "the month of July"; someone is "23 years of age" not "23 years old". Loadsa stuff like that.

Still, the commentary may be laughable but the racing is fab!


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## jifdave (7 Jul 2013)

Definitely disappointed that contador/valverde/et all.... didnt have legs/bollocks today quintana had a few pops but no one else went for it.


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## lukesdad (7 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Definitely disappointed that contador/valverde/et all.... didnt have legs/bollocks today quintana had a few pops but no one else went for it.


I think you ll find they couldn't agree what to do Quintana was told off by by Valverde for the digs.


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## smutchin (7 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> at the back of my mind I wonder if their training camps have gone a bit wrong and whether the team selection was right.



There's probably something in this. Before the Tour started, I thought the team looked very strong on paper, but Lopez has definitely underperformed so far and Siutsou looks cooked after the Giro.

As for my punditry... I take the infinite monkey approach - jabber enough and eventually I'll come out with the works of Shakespeare. But for every Mollema there's a dozen Taaramaes...


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## 400bhp (7 Jul 2013)

Porte was made to eat his words after yesterdays comments and to his credit he did so

Think Boardman was about right with Movistar's tactics. They set off with consolidating 3rd position and not risk everything and go for broke with the yellow.

Plenty of racing left yet.

What's with Hesjedal's sunglasses?


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## Herzog (7 Jul 2013)

Auntie Helen said:


> I get to watch the Phil 'n Paul show each day and the thing that's irritating me (well, one of the things) is that Paul seems unable to say "in July" but has to say "the month of July"; someone is "23 years of age" not "23 years old". Loadsa stuff like that.


 

And nobody works hard...they are always "doing a great job of work"...


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## SWSteve (7 Jul 2013)

I'm a big fan of Froome's quote from the ITV Coverage
"They're only human"
When talking about his team mates not being able to stay with him on today's stage.


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## beastie (7 Jul 2013)

The good thing for Sky is the timing of this problem. They now have a flat stage to recover as best they can, followed by a TT where the rest of the riders bar Catweasel can take it a bit easier. The Ventoux stage is perfect for Sky with a long flattish run in followed by one monster climb, but one where their train should be pretty effective. I expect Froome to put another 30 sec - 1 min into the GC boys then. If he TT's well then he should have a lead of 2 1/2 mins to play with after Ventoux. The alps will be a different story now, with long range attacks to be expected. Very interesting tour so far.


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## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2013)

Fair play to Froome today, he was awesome, isolated etc. And it's all been said so what's the point in me elaborating even further, other than to say that he was very modest come the interview he gave to ITV...I like that. 'One of the hardest days I've had on the bike,' or words to that effect, show some regard for his opposition but blimey, the lad is strong.

I think Boardman had it right too and this tactic (from Movistar and others) isn't going anywhere quick and you can't help thinking that Movistar were testing the water for the second round in the Alps.

 I can't wait...

...oh yeah...


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AylbEJzvrRM


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## Pedrosanchezo (7 Jul 2013)

Got in earlier and had planned to skim through the previously recorded Oooooorosport coverage and perhaps watch the final 60k. Ended watching the whole shebang from start to finish!! 

Utterly loved that race. In my best Olly twist voice - "Please sir, can i have some more?" 

This tour is throwing a few curveballs. Froome is so far knocking them out the park.


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## jifdave (7 Jul 2013)

http://twitter.com/simongeschke/status/353955856980783104/photo/1

Classic!!


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Jul 2013)

It's clear that Sky made some sacrifices to get Froome a clear lead at this stage before the rest day, which can he then build on in the ITT. The rest of next week is pretty flat until Ventoux and Sky aren't really going for the sprints so most of them can save their legs. I bet they didn't bank on losing Kiryenka, however I think Movistar and Saxo-Bank are actually going to be far more disappointed than Sky at this stage as they failed to break Froome.


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## montage (8 Jul 2013)

Kiryenka is a huge loss! The man can do the work of three men, though something must have gone very wrong today.
Fantastic riding from Ten Dam as well, I bet the odds for him podiuming were pretty great! What a tour this has been so far!


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jul 2013)

Loved Porte's response when asked if the team have any illness etc........

"no nothing like that, the peloton just kicked our arse!".


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Definitely disappointed that contador/valverde/et all.... didnt have legs/bollocks today quintana had a few pops but no one else went for it.


The Jensie wrote yesterday
"But then Movistar and Saxo Bank just stopped attacking. I couldn’t figure that out. I mean you have 100 kilometers still remaining and the yellow jersey is totally isolated. You can do a lot of things in those situations. But you do not start to ride tempo for him. You are just playing into his hands"


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

Sorry for some potentially long entrees... but I got a weekend of my glorified opinion to share 

I was expecting Saturday to be the only race of real interest, because I expected the long descent on Sunday to be off-putting for the GC-guys... so I was expecting Sunday to be something for an escape and some small GC rumblings on the last 2 climbs with not a lot of effect
Very short on Saturday: that was a great last climb (and Quintana climbing is a sight for sore eyes). But as some people on here said as well, I did have the feeling, that except for Peter and Richie, Sky-domestiques were underwhelming
... what happened to Pinot by the way (Tejay at least fell in the first week, he has somewhat of an excuse)
... I had expected my earlier made comments on the combination Giro/Tour being too grueling to come true later on, but already Evans and Niemiec have shown there is some truth in that


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> ... what happened to Pinot by the way (Tejay at least fell in the first week, he has somewhat of an excuse)


 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-pinot-devastated-after-downhill-setback


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

I was however quite wrong about the Sunday stage... although I had the feeling the "full-on-war" was more instigated by the riders who were not super close in the GC (more position 10-30, like Rolland, Talansky, Anton, Nieve...), but these guys gave the others no choice but to follow since everybody was/is still very close to each other
By the way, I only saw the first hours of the race (till about the top of Peyresourde), had to leave the house (bloody responsibilities...) and then tuned back in for the last 20K

It was quite funny reading everyone's excitement here at around p.45 during the first hours (I too was very excited at that moment)... but this went back down and jokes and side-comments starting creeping in (which I believe strengthens my believe on the following)
Didn't (mostly) Movistar royally screw this opportunity??
FYI... I don't want anybody to take these comments as taking sides, if anything I prefer a person - so far not linked to dubious people or blood levels - like Froome taking it above (convicted) people who are linked to these
BUT... I do like exciting races (like the early hours of this race) and seeing bold tactics... taking advantage of everything they can

Why the hell did Movistar make "a Sky train" in front Froome the whole day (okay he had the matching helmet, but still... they can't be that much into fashion). When Merckx (and others in the old days) was facing opponents who were stronger climbers than him on the day (or whole Tour) then he used tactics (e.g. attacking in descents)​In this case, I believe that it was stupid to wait for the last climb to attack Froome... and even more, it was stupid to attack Froome during a climb (sorry Quintana... still love you though). Froome was the best on Saturday and hadn't shown any reason why he wasn't on Sunday. He was isolated... i.e. attack him when we can't go as fast or faster than you, which means in the small flat pieces between the climbs or even the descents...​Instead of making a nice pace, I believe they should have tried to constantly slowed down the pace, so that attacks could happen. After the 2nd climb of the day (where Porte got dropped), only Saxo and Movistar had about enough men left to "make a pace" to catch escapees. So, I believe these teams (again, I would have rather seen other teams/people do it, but that is how the situation was) should have tried to make an alliance... e.g. have Contador and Valverde try to escape together... have Kreuzinger and Quintana/Costa try to escape together...
Froome wouldn't be able to jump on each escape and at one point or another a small group would have had a gap, if Saxo and Movistar would not want to make pace, who would have caught that escape back?
Okay, maybe all the other teams (that are not in that specific escape) would work together... I don't have a garantuee for success either​... but even if it wouldn't have worked, Froome would definitely not be behind a Movistar train waiting, but would need to help as well​


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-pinot-devastated-after-downhill-setback


Thanks Rich for the info... I agree already in the Tour de Suisse, he was "hesitant" in the descents... but still he wasn't anywhere near the front while climbing and wasn't he dropped on Sunday during a climb


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## thom (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> I was however quite wrong about the Sunday stage... although I had the feeling the "full-on-war" was more instigated by the riders who were not super close in the GC (more position 10-30, like Rolland, Talansky, Anton, Nieve...), but these guys gave the others no choice but to follow since everybody was/is still very close to each other
> .​.​.​... but even if it wouldn't have worked, Froome would definitely not be behind a Movistar train waiting, but would need to help as well​


So I think Movistar appreciated that Sky 1 & 2 are very hard to attack - being able to put Porte on Quintana's wheel and Froome on Valverde's is good insurance for your team position. Eliminating Porte while not decisive is an achievement that may pay dividends later - it already moved up Valverde etc a place on GC, which in itself is something and it is a psychological blow to Sky.
I suspect that in sticking their train on the front (in particular after Saturday's stage) they just knackered themselves and had nothing left for any more extravagant attacking.

Also, it would be interesting to know if teams were aware if Kiriyenka was in so much trouble - if Movistar had not rode tempo, if the racing was more variable in pace and attacking at times, the whole thing would have been a bit slower and possibly allowed Kiryenka to make it. Losing him is something of an issue for Sky.


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## zizou (8 Jul 2013)

Movistar did their biggest attack on the flat between the climbs - Froome covered it and it split the group. They had a pretty good day rather than a wasted opportunity - moved up to second taking Porte out of the equation so Sky only have a plan A now (some would say sky only ever have a plan A!), still in white. It is still early days and alot racing and the alps still to come

On the climbs if Contador had the legs he would have attacked - he has always been that sort of rider both pre and post ban, that he didnt go suggests he was already close to the limit. He was in the group that had been dropped in the movistar attack that Froome covered and had to get a team mate back from the break to pace him back.


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## albion (8 Jul 2013)

I part think the question was 'why did Movistar choose to compete instead of near ending Froome's tour chance'.

Sort of like asking 'why do other cyclists work with the Brownlees'.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

Thing is, it was Garmin - not Movistar - who did the real damage to Sky yesterday by launching constant attacks as soon as the race started. Movistar only took up the pacesetting when Sky were already down to two men. Did they not want to apply the coup de grace or were they unable? Garmin's tactics probably affected Movistar too, just not as badly as they affected Sky.

And besides, I'm still not convinced Valverde has what it takes to beat Froome, even with a strong team. I'm reminded of Liquigas in the Giro last year - they tried to dominate the race with a Sky-style train but Basso didn't have the legs to apply the finish, and Hesjedal and Purito were able to take advantage. Quintana should clearly be their GC man on the evidence so far.

It'll be interesting to see how Wednesday's TT shakes up the standings. I predict Mollema will be up to 2nd in GC and Quintana will be up to 4th or 5th, depending on Contador's form, which is the biggest mystery of the race so far IMO. Saxo didn't seem too interested in attacking yesterday - maybe they're saving him for the Alps.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

It was pretty clear on Saturday that Kreuziger had to hang around and wait for Contador. There is an understandable reluctance to switch leaders mid-race but it does occur sometimes and I'm not sure how good Dirty Bertie is at present.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

Another thing that occurs to me - if Movistar had attacked on the climbs, it might have hurt Valverde. If they'd attacked on the descents, it might have hurt Quintana...

The only person to benefit from either scenario would be Rui Costa.


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## VamP (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It was pretty clear on Saturday that Kreuziger had to hang around and wait for Contador. There is an understandable reluctance to switch leaders mid-race but it does occur sometimes and I'm not sure how good Dirty Bertie is at present.


 
I read an interview with Kreuziger where he was asked that self same question. He said that Contador was in a bad shape on Saturday (unspecified cause) but fine on Sunday. From his perspective, everything was going to plan and he didn't think there was any reason to look at a leadership change.

I think if Bertie is struggling again on Ventoux, then they'll look at switching, but for now Saxo Bank are pretty much on target.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I read an interview with Kreuziger where he was asked that self same question. He said that Contador was in a bad shape on Saturday (unspecified cause) but fine on Sunday. From his perspective, everything was going to plan and he didn't think there was any reason to look at a leadership change.
> 
> I think if Bertie is struggling again on Ventoux, then they'll look at switching, but for now Saxo Bank are pretty much on target.


Thanks for that. Even yesterday, it seemed that Contador was very subdued though, so we'll have to wait and see if he improves at MV.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

Subdued or keeping his powder dry? This is the mystery!


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## thom (8 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Subdued or keeping his powder dry? This is the mystery!


Powder ? What sort of powder do you mean... ? ;-)

On Sat I was watching the riders come over the line "explaining things" to my girlfriend, going - "ooh we don't like him he's a doper, or him - sorry this sounds a bit anti-spanish but we don't like him either...".

She mooted the idea that to simplify things for everyone, it might be a good idea if all convicted dopers were :
1) Required to wear something distinctive for the rest of their careers so the casual observer could easily know the score. Say blood red socks, or perhaps blood red shorts.
2) There was an additional jersey competition, the Blood red jersey, which would be worn by the leading ex-doper on GC.

It would be funny in that it would force Frigget and Sherwent to expound on the meaning of the colours and actually address the fact that the sport they commentated on for years was riddled with cheats.


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## jifdave (8 Jul 2013)

For anyone on twitter check out g Thomas digs at dan Martin... Lol

https://twitter.com/geraintthomas86/status/354153102884085760


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Thing is, it was Garmin - not Movistar - who did the real damage to Sky yesterday by launching constant attacks as soon as the race started. Movistar only took up the pacesetting when Sky were already down to two men. Did they not want to apply the coup de grace or were they unable?


Thanks Smutch, I feel a bit of support on my point here . I found that it was Movistar who had the biggest opportunity of using the situations (with 3 people very good placed in the GC to apply pressure with), but IMO they were not resourceful enough to use the best strategy and fell into the "standard" racing strategy (a.k.a. riding hard to make the rest drop on the climbs)
e.g. the strategy that A. Schleck used with Monfort in the "Evans Tour", the day before the Alpe 'd Huez stage was showing some (uncharacteristically) big balls



thom said:


> Eliminating Porte while not decisive is an achievement that may pay dividends later - it already moved up Valverde etc a place on GC, which in itself is something and it is a psychological blow to Sky...


Granted they indeed took Porte out of the GC, but the way I look at it is

Your riding for the (GC) win and not the 2nd place... whenever you have a chance to do that, you should take it
In the next mountain stages, Porte (considering he finds his form back) will only go full out until Froome attacks (or drops) and will "freewheel" to the finish (or ride slower to the finish to drag Froome)... making him fresher the next day then if he would compete for a GC place as well
but as said first, I understand the Porte strategy, but - for me - it feels more like a conservative strategy, showing weakness by applying it
(And - as spectator - don't we all like to see unpredictible races)
Say e.g. an escape with Kreuzinger and Quintana took 5 min (maybe with a Fuglsang and Ten Dam thrown in as well)... wouldn't that give some extra variables/fireworks in the next mountain stages?



smutchin said:


> still not convinced Valverde has what it takes to beat Froome, even with a strong team.... Quintana should clearly be their GC man


Go Quintana !!!!  (but in his defence Valverde has proven in the past he understands how to hold on during 3 weeks)



smutchin said:


> It'll be interesting to see how Wednesday's TT shakes up the standings. I predict Mollema will be up to 2nd in GC and Quintana will be up to 4th or 5th


I don't think so on either of the two.. I would put my money on Kreuzinger putting in a better TT than Mollema and taking spot 2 in the GC
The last TT has (if he is still as strong by then) Quintana written all over it... but I'm not so sure for this one. Although he's surrounded by people who are pretty bad at TT as well, I would only see him jump Ten Dam (and maybe Contador), but he probably will get overtaken by Costa (and should watch-out for Fuglsang and Kwiatek as well)


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> .... Required to wear something distinctive... perhaps blood red shorts..


Oh nooooo... does this mean we will get to see even more Rolland with awkard looking pants?!?


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## VamP (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> I don't think so on either of the two.. I would put my money on Kreuzinger putting in a better TT than Mollema and taking spot 2 in the GC
> The last TT has (if he is still as strong by then) Quintana written all over it... but I'm not so sure for this one. Although he's surrounded by people who are pretty bad at TT as well, I would only see him jump Ten Dam (and maybe Contador), but he probably will get overtaken by Costa (and should watch-out for Fuglsang and Kwiatek as well)


 
I think the differences in time from the TT will not be great in the 2-8 places on GC, so while the order may shift, it will not be a decisive shift. The two things that I think will be of key interest are a) how much time can Froome add to his leadership buffer, and b) can Kreuziger put so much time into Bertie that he will make himself the _de-facto_ leader.


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## thom (8 Jul 2013)

Interesting comments from Frankie Andreu post Saturday's stage with Paul Kimmage.
He thinks Froome's time up Ax-3 Domaines was credible & makes some interesting points about it.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> I don't think so on either of the two.. I would put my money on Kreuzinger putting in a better TT than Mollema and taking spot 2 in the GC


 
You may well be right. I was going by the evidence of the Tour de Suisse stage 9 TT, but the profile of Wednesday's TT is very different so it may not be the best indicator. Mollema's performance there was solid on both the flat and uphill sections, and I'd expect him to outperform Valverde, who had a stinker at the Dauphiné TT (very similar indeed to Wednesday's TT, in both profile and distance). But yes, Kreuziger only needs to beat him by seven seconds, so the order of those three in GC may well be reversed.

I suppose Quintana is a bit of an unknown quantity on a flat TT, but on form alone, I'd expect him to do better than most of the riders above him in GC (Contador was even worse than Valverde at the Dauphiné). You're right about Costa, Fuglsang and Kwiatkowski though. They're all potential threats to Quintana, though Quintana has a decent amount of time in hand over all of them.

Sadly, I expect Ten Dam to be outside the top ten after Wednesday. But maybe that's being harsh on him.


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## albion (8 Jul 2013)

I know it is a bit MAD but tribalism now says "I only lose to dopers".


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## oldroadman (8 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Geraint stabilizer Thomas is a gobshiiiit


 
Harsh, Geraint is half right, as Dan is half Irish, mum being Maria Roche, as was. So he chooses an Irish passport over a British one, and gets an Irish licence. This did not happen early, something made him swop when already at a very good level, and I can't imagine the Irish federation were disappointed to get his application, same as Matt Brammier. Two quality riders for nothing, effectively. Maybe the motivation was getting into national teams for major championships, because it's very difficult to get a GB place, so who can blame them for that? They just don't sound very Irish, uless (in Dan's case) you're an Irishman from the midlands, as an old mate of mine is, he sounds as un-Irish as you can get but that's not what his passport says!


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

Valverde maybe looking at the top spaniard prize, after being done over in last years vuelta.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

I believe Mr Thomas was indulging in what the youth of today refer to as "banter".


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## PpPete (8 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> http://twitter.com/simongeschke/status/353955856980783104/photo/1
> 
> Classic!!


 
OMG !
I know that hotel too, it's right opposite the station.
Never stayed there, had a drink in the bar occasionally, until they accepted a booking from a certain Monsieur Le Pen.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

I have no axe to grind with Dan Martin, and I'm half Irish myself, but he's as Irish as Mark Lawrenson who played under Jack Charlton by dint of owning an Irish Setter - allegedly - maybe. 
I heard his Dad interviewed recently and he didn't have a lot of time or respect for Stephen Roche. Family tiffs and all that mullarkey.


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

Hmm half Irish eh? Explains a lot mister P !


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## Milzy (8 Jul 2013)

I really don't think it matters if he's English, Irish or from Iceland, we are all Gods children.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

Milzy said:


> I really don't think it matters if he's English, Irish or from Iceland, we are all Gods children.


It doesn't matter and the Irish can have him!
As to the Icelandic God bit, I really couldn't give a Frigg.


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

Milzy said:


> I really don't think it matters if he's English, Irish or from Iceland, we are all Gods children.


I take it you haven't met many CCers in person then ! Lol


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## VamP (8 Jul 2013)

I've met some and I bet even the ones I haven't are nobbers.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

You can tell it's the rest day, can't you! Back to the action tomorrow and we'll see if Froome can put the dawg amonst the pigeons, tail between their legs and barking up the wrong tree.
enough crap puns - ed


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

Tho' Noods believes he was made in the image of God....oh hang on it may have been a Dog ? (Or Dawg)


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

N


VamP said:


> I've met some and I bet even the ones I haven't are nobbers.


Now where on earth would you get that idea I wonder.


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

Doya want me to p*ss off Rich ? I will if you ask nicely


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

Anyway, who's going to win tomorrow?
Cav will be busting a gut and hoping his train is on form. My HR will be racing too.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Thanks Rich for the info... I agree already in the Tour de Suisse, he was "hesitant" in the descents... but still he wasn't anywhere near the front while climbing and wasn't he dropped on Sunday during a climb


This was the article I was looking for but couldn't find...
... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-asks-what-am-i-doing-on-the-tour
Very sad.


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## Crackle (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> This was the article I was looking for but couldn't find...
> ... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-asks-what-am-i-doing-on-the-tour
> Very sad.


I dunno, I saw a bit of hope in that article. I certainly hope he can overcome it.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

Milzy said:


> we are all Gods children.



Except Luke. He's Lukesdad's child.


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## lukesdad (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Anyway, who's going to win tomorrow?
> Cav will be busting a gut and hoping his train is on form. My HR will be racing too.


Before he does keep an eye out for his old mates from Sky going for a word in his shell like.


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## Monsieur Remings (8 Jul 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Harsh, Geraint is half right, as Dan is half Irish, mum being Maria Roche, as was. So he chooses an Irish passport over a British one, and gets an Irish licence. This did not happen early, something made him swop when already at a very good level, and I can't imagine the Irish federation were disappointed to get his application, same as Matt Brammier. Two quality riders for nothing, effectively. Maybe the motivation was getting into national teams for major championships, because it's very difficult to get a GB place, so who can blame them for that? They just don't sound very Irish, uless (in Dan's case) you're an Irishman from the midlands, as an old mate of mine is, he sounds as un-Irish as you can get but that's not what his passport says!


 

It could also have to do with the small matter of Irish emigration? Some estimates put the Irish diaspora, or those of Irish descent worldwide at 70 million.


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> This was the article I was looking for but couldn't find...
> ... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-asks-what-am-i-doing-on-the-tour
> Very sad.


 

Blimey, he's being very tough on himself.


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Blimey, he's being very tough on himself.


Yep, it's a bit too much innit.


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Jul 2013)

So, who won the rest day then?


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## Hip Priest (8 Jul 2013)

A shame about Pinot. His comments reminded me of the Spanish footballer Jesus Navas, who had demons of his own to deal with as young man. Thankfully, he was able to overcome them and play on the biggest stage. Hopefully young Thibault will do the same.


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## Hip Priest (8 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> So, who won the rest day then?


 

Me. I've done nowt all day.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> This was the article I was looking for but couldn't find...
> ... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-asks-what-am-i-doing-on-the-tour
> Very sad.


Jeez how odd. Must be the worst thing to happen to a bike racer as it's all about speed isn't it? How can he compete if he can't race downhill. He seemed fine last year. 
I hope he gets through it. The mind is a powerful thing and maybe something like hypnotherapy could play a part in his recovery.


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## oldroadman (8 Jul 2013)

It's something everyone has to overcome, some cope better than others. The poor lad could probably do with some sessions with a French equivalent of Dr Steve Peters, and learn to put the "chimp" back in the box. In this case the chimp being the negative thougts around speed and descending.


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## zizou (8 Jul 2013)

Will be hugely difficult to overcome that fear in the short term but you'd have to hope with some work psychologically and technically too that he can improve.

Although i dont really get the comment about not being able to descend like Cavendish - the gruppetto riders are amongst the best descenders in the peloton and even the accomplished descenders who are high up in the GC would struggle to keep up.


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## Hip Priest (8 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> Although i dont really get the comment about not being able to descend like Cavendish - the gruppetto riders are amongst the best descenders in the peloton and even the accomplished descenders who are high up in the GC would struggle to keep up.


 
I was thinking the same thing.

The increased weight of the sprinters, plus the need to get under the time limit, mean they often go hell for leather on the descents.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Jul 2013)

Interesting how everyone on other forums is being very sympathetic to Pinot (as they should be) but were laughing and pointing the finger at Wiggins when he was suffering a similar crisis of confidence at the Giro.


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## SWSteve (9 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> So, who won the rest day then?


 
Astana, did you see where they were staying? Lads on tour...


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## raindog (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Interesting how everyone on other forums is being very sympathetic to Pinot (as they should be) but were laughing and pointing the finger at Wiggins when he was suffering a similar crisis of confidence at the Giro.


That's because everyday is "bash Brad day" if "other forums" is where I think it is.....


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Interesting how everyone on other forums is being very sympathetic to Pinot (as they should be) but were laughing and pointing the finger at Wiggins when he was suffering a similar crisis of confidence at the Giro.



Well, I was going to make an hilarious quip about him but I judged that popular feeling would have been against it so didn't. 

See also: Andy Schleck.


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## PpPete (9 Jul 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Astana, did you see where they were staying? Lads on tour...


It's not a great hotel TBH. 
I take it you were referring to the.... um.... "bar" next door ?


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

Looking at the performances of Sky so far, I would be considering another strategy than the "suffocating ramp up of speed" they usually do.
It seems that there are only going to be about 2 helpers left in the mountains (Porte and Kennaugh) and for both we don't fully know how they will have recovered from Sunday's events.

Last year, the strategy was brilliant and very effective, since Wiggins isn't a pure climber and prefers climbing at a more steady pace and the Sky-pace was too suffocating for the climbers to really attack... but now they have Froome as leader, who already has a nice buffer (and should have more buffer after tomorrow) and who can stick with the more preferred style of irregular climbing pace of his competitors.
Therefore - being Sky - I would just stick to a more comfortable pace that doesn't burn Hagen and Siutsou as fast (as on Saturday)... more like US Postal (sorry, I can't really avoid them) were controlling the pace.... and with this changed strategy not blow up your own team (but of course it is so easy to fall into the pattern you have always used and trained on)

p.s. If they want, they can easily still do the Sky-strategy once more, namely on the Mont Ventoux stage, since that is just one climb anyway
p.p.s. During the press conference yesterday DB said that they will change strategy (but there's a good chance that just referred to another role for Porte)
p.p.p.s. Of course if Movistar and/or Saxo are smart, they should make pace (and not let Sky make pace) from the start of mountain stages


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Interesting how everyone on other forums is being very sympathetic to Pinot (as they should be) but were laughing and pointing the finger at Wiggins when he was suffering a similar crisis of confidence at the Giro.


His disappointment was very open and not shielded from the press. This French interview shows how total his disappointment was, and even if you don't speak French you can still see the effect in his body language and hear it in his voice. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Pinot-je-n-y-suis-plus/384352


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> His disappointment was very open and not shielded from the press. This French interview shows how total his disappointment was, and even if you don't speak French you can still see the effect in his body language and hear it in his voice. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Pinot-je-n-y-suis-plus/384352


 
Indeed, the disappointment and "subjection to the situation" was very big
... strange hearing him mentioning (more than once) his hopes to do something in the 3rd week, wouldn't the Ventoux stage be a better fit if you don't feel comfortable desceding​... It is nice actually to hear him say he isn't going to be happy even if he could take a stage victory, he came for the GC and now that's gone. It shows his ambition is correct​


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

sounds like he needs a bit of a sporty head doctor to help him out with that...or just a head doctor, i don't think it would matter. just needs to be shown a way to cope with it. i hope he does cos he's pretty awesome.


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Well, I was going to make an hilarious quip about him but I judged that popular feeling would have been against it so didn't.
> 
> See also: Andy Schleck.


 
Oh go on. Don't let popularity cloud your judgement


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

By the way... for anyone who might be interested, there was yesterday quite an interesting piece of interview with Marc Coucke (the Omega Pharma part of OPQ):
He was clearly saying he wants to have a (great) Grand Tour type of rider in his team (to complement the other types they already have like Cavendish, Boonen, Chavanel and Martin to be able to compete the whole year on all fronts)​​He was saying, he wants to be successful in the only thing Sky failed to do, which is (successfully) pairing Cavendish with a GC rider​​And he was asked if he was referring to Kwiatek, but he said no, they would like to have someone besides him while he would grow as GC rider​​​I can't see anyone other than Uran being the one talked about here, right?


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> His disappointment was very open and not shielded from the press. This French interview shows how total his disappointment was, and even if you don't speak French you can still see the effect in his body language and hear it in his voice. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Pinot-je-n-y-suis-plus/384352


 
Yeah, I know: I am not asking for people to bash Pinot, rather the lack of understanding shown to Wiggins is what I think is wrong.


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## iLB (9 Jul 2013)

Assuming Porte can recover to the level he was at on Sunday for the remaining mountain show downs, all the time he lost on Sunday could actually be a benefit to Froome and Sky. It will mean he no longer has a little voice in the back of his head prompting him to consolidate his own podium position whilst helping Froome, should make him even more useful as a super dom.


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> Assuming Porte can recover to the level he was at on Sunday for the remaining mountain show downs, all the time he lost on Sunday could actually be a benefit to Froome and Sky. It will mean he no longer has a little voice in the back of his head prompting him to consolidate his own podium position whilst helping Froome, should make him even more useful as a super dom.


Yep, exactly what he told the press yesterday


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yeah, I know: I am not asking for people to bash Pinot, rather the lack of understanding shown to Wiggins is what I think is wrong.


I suppose I was trying to point to the different ways the riders dealt with it. Thibault had no answers or excuses in the face of immense national interest. On the other side of things, Wiggins got by with little bits of information - a cold here, a sore knee there, etc - but didn't speak about the major problem, namely keeping his nerve and the bike underneath him on wet Italian descents. It was all managed and evasive.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Oh go on. Don't let popularity cloud your judgement


 
I'm only here for the likes. There's no mileage in bashing Pinot.

But seriously... I do feel for him. And Wiggo. And even Schleck, to some extent.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Anyway, today's pick is a no-brainer: Cav.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, today's pick is a no-brainer: Cav.


Cav has no brain?


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Cav has no brain?


Well, he can't see properly while sprinting, so why would he need to think about it


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yeah, I know: I am not asking for people to bash Pinot, rather the lack of understanding shown to Wiggins is what I think is wrong.


Pinot is a big girl's blouson and shouldn't be a bike racer if he isn't brave enough


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, today's pick is a no-brainer: Cav.


 
You'd think so wouldn't you.


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Pinot is a big girl's blouson and shouldn't be a bike racer if he isn't brave enough


New jersey idea Mk II:
One for the worst descender of the race. It's colour ? Italian grey, or grigio...


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> New jersey idea Mk II:
> One for the worst descender of the race. It's colour ? Italian grey, or grigio...


Good call! It should of course be yellow but that's been taken by the bravest!


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Good call! It should of course be yellow but that's been taken by the bravest!


France has always had it's own peculiar honour code...


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Is wind likely to be a factor on today's stage? The forecast is for a 14mph northeasterly, so they'll be heading into the wind as they run up towards the coast, then there's a sharp change in direction with about 20km to go, and it's a tailwind all the way to the finish.

Not sure what the implications of that might be... It should suit Cav, but it could get interesting if there are any splits in the peloton after that Cat 4 climb (about 50km before the finish) or after the turn just after Cancale - and it's a slight downhill gradient from 4km to go too, with a pancake flat final kilometre, so it should be a very fast finish...


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

have those that watch on itv4 played a game of '_wrong rider bingo_' with uncle phil and paul? it is quite extraordinary...i know phil's getting old but what's sherwen's excuse?! i don't like either of them if i'm honest and i'm sure they don't like me and i know i have options to watch it elsewhere but i just can't resist playing the game with them. i'm beginning to think they're aware of my armchair amusement and now do it on purpose, after all, they can't always be that ignorant and stupid can they?


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## Crackle (9 Jul 2013)

Someone tell me how to pronounce Kennaugh. The different variations are beginning to infuriate me now. Surely it's Kenna?


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Someone tell me how to pronounce Kennaugh. The different variations are beginning to infuriate me now. Surely it's Kenna?


kenorg / ken ah! / ke nn ow g / kenawf - that's all i've got 

i go with kenna, same as you. that makes it the correct pronunciation


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Someone tell me how to pronounce Kennaugh. The different variations are beginning to infuriate me now. Surely it's Kenna?


Ken-ee-uch was what I think Dave Harmon settled on at one race after talking to someone connected to his family


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> New jersey idea Mk II:
> One for the worst descender of the race. It's colour ? Italian grey, or grigio...


Ooh yes, we could design a Pinot 4 dress too!


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## zizou (9 Jul 2013)

One of the highlights of the media coverage every year is the Big Picture feature in the Boston Globe, here is the first part http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2013/07/tour_de_france_100th_edition_p.html


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2013)

More reflections from the Science of Sport people on Froome's performance in the Pyrennees. Basically: Froome remains suspicious (and almost no-one else) but that's all - he is certainly not in 'impossible' territory, and the results from Stage 9 would suggest that Sky as a team had basically used themselves up on Stage 8 with almost disastrous results - definitely not what you would expect from a team that was 'prepared'.


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## wakou (9 Jul 2013)

kedab said:


> kenorg / ken ah! / ke nn ow g / kenawf - that's all i've got
> 
> i go with kenna, same as you. that makes it the correct pronunciation





Crackle said:


> Someone tell me how to pronounce Kennaugh. The different variations are beginning to infuriate me now. Surely it's Kenna?


 
Kennuck.
Mark Cavendish was asked this question, and as a Manxman, should be listened to.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> More reflections from the Science of Sport people on Froome's performance in the Pyrennees. Basically: Froome remains suspicious (and almost no-one else) but that's all - he is certainly not in 'impossible' territory, and the results from Stage 9 would suggest that Sky as a team had basically used themselves up on Stage 8 with almost disastrous results - definitely not what you would expect from a team that was 'prepared'.


 
I was just about to post exactly the same link! Really good piece that. Proper level-headed assessment. Also backs up what I said after Saturday's stage about Sky not being able to ride like that every day and why...


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## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2013)

so flat as a pancake today, stealth second rest day unless the breakaway gets some time on the group?


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## Shadow (9 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> so flat as a pancake today, stealth second rest day unless the breakaway gets some time on the group?


 
No chance of a breakaway lasting out the day. OPQS, Argos, Lotto et al will reel them in.


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> More reflections from the Science of Sport people on Froome's performance in the Pyrennees. Basically: Froome remains suspicious (and almost no-one else) but that's all - he is certainly not in 'impossible' territory, and the results from Stage 9 would suggest that Sky as a team had basically used themselves up on Stage 8 with almost disastrous results - definitely not what you would expect from a team that was 'prepared'.


 
I don't really want to turn this into a doping discussion, but this whole approach of evaluating a rider's 'cleanliness' based on performance data, particularly derived performance data, is fraught with pitfalls. How do you account for a genuine outlier performance - you can't. How do you account for a masterful race strategy and pacing - you can't. How do you take conditions on the day into consideration? You can't. Even the uncertainty boundaries on their calculation are huge. 6.2 watts/kg is clean and 6.5 w/kg is doped? Bollocks. The uncertainty boundary is that large. 

I bet there's doped riders in the race this year, who haven't even broken through 6 w/kg up Ax 3.

Pub chit chat is all it is. Performance biomechanics is much more complex then these guys try to reduce it to.*

* - by these guys I'm more referring to Vayer then the Science in Sport guys, but they too are too quick to endorse this approach.


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

Sky are nearer the front than they have to be. The sprinters' teams will bring this back


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## tigger (9 Jul 2013)

@ VamP I find the biggest variable for performance (time) when I ride is the weather. Wind speed and direction, pressure, humidity, temperature etc. I've not been training so hard this year but I smashed my old PB on one of my courses by a wapping 4% the other evening when conditions were perfect


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## lukesdad (9 Jul 2013)

Perhaps they re expecting a crash.


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## rich p (9 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Perhaps they re expecting a crash.


Maybe but it they may want to show they're not broken completely!


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## lukesdad (9 Jul 2013)

Sky and OPQS having negotiations to. Although its probably other stages they will really need their help.


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## dragon72 (9 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Sky are nearer the front than they have to be. The sprinters' teams will bring this back



It's breezy. I think they're hedging against possible echelon splits.


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## Crackle (9 Jul 2013)

User said:


> from the learn manx, click on the name, press play
> 
> http://learnmanx.com/cms/audio_collection_11126.html


Kennyeck of Canute it is then.


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

Rolland with the ugly short again in the picture again 

Still... you have to congratulate him as he was bringing water bottles to the rest of his team


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## Hip Priest (9 Jul 2013)

Pete Kennaugh's father posted on Twitter that their surname is pronounced Kenn-Yick.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> How do you account for a genuine outlier performance - you can't. How do you account for a masterful race strategy and pacing - you can't. How do you take conditions on the day into consideration? You can't. Even the uncertainty boundaries on their calculation are huge. 6.2 watts/kg is clean and 6.5 w/kg is doped? Bollocks. The uncertainty boundary is that large.


 
To be fair, the article linked to by FM does cover that and advises caution when interpreting the data. It also makes the point that you can't draw firm conclusions from one-off performances like Saturday, you have to look at the bigger picture for the context.




> I bet there's doped riders in the race this year, who haven't even broken through 6 w/kg up Ax 3.


 
Indeed. I'm working on the assumption that the peloton isn't 100% clean, purely on balance of probabilities, but there's no evidence as far as I can see to point the finger at any individual yet - although Cunego was named on the Mantova hitlist.



> Pub chit chat is all it is. Performance biomechanics is much more complex then these guys try to reduce it to.*
> * - by these guys I'm more referring to Vayer then the Science in Sport guys, but they too are too quick to endorse this approach.


 
Surely the method is sound, it's just the data that's shaky? There's a bit more substance to the SIS analysis than pub chit chat though.


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## Slaav (9 Jul 2013)

Having just read Tyler Hamilton's book - which I recommend by the way; despite seemingly now benefitting further from his doping - he uses an analogy of a match box. The match box contains a set number of matches. As you use one, it burns out. You then light another one when required but you will run out of matches eventually. Now, using that analogy for the climb on Saturday? would it be fair that Sky burnt quite a few matches and paid the price on Sunday? I cannot remember if he was referring to BBs (Blood bags) or micro doses of Edgar (EPO) but it works for me in context with Sky recent performance.

Also, this then in turn got me over to the Clinic - my God there is not a lot of love for Sky and Froome on there is there???? I am amazed that the lawyers allow some of the posts.....


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## The Couch (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... although Cunego was named on the Mantova hitlist


 
No?? Really?? Cunego!?
My world just got smashed to pieces


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> No?? Really?? Cunego!?
> My world just got smashed to pieces


 
Yeah, shocking, innit?


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2013)

'the channel is the main body of water between France & England' Is there no end to Phil Liggett's knowledge?


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## dragon72 (9 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> 'the channel is the main body of water between France & England' Is there no end to Phil Liggett's knowledge?


 
To be fair on the senile Armstrong-apologist douchebag, bear in mind that we're getting Liggett's commentary on ESPN here in Mexico too, where people don't necessarily know these things.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> 'the channel is the main body of water between France & England' Is there no end to Phil Liggett's knowledge?


Is he keeping la Manche up his sleeve?


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Surely the method is sound, it's just the data that's shaky? There's a bit more substance to the SIS analysis than pub chit chat though.


 
Both the data and the method.

Taking a power average over a 40 minute climb tells you nothing about the delivery, the peaks and the troughs. Compound that by estimating the average based on some algorithm and you've got a mish mash. Of interest to statisticians only. It has no persuasive evidential value. And if you're doubting that then go and compare some Strava power calculations for your favourite hillclimb.

What annoys me about the SIS guys is that they acknowledge this on the one hand, but then go on to say that if it was 6.5 w/kg ''I would be calling shenanigans for sure''. That's going from plausible to cheat within self-confessed error boundary on power estimate alone.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2013)

Naughty Cav.


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

I think this time Cav will have to offer a humble apology to Degenkolb there - he clearly knocked him off.
Well done Kittel.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Yes, well done Kittel.

Was that Cav's fault? Hard to tell.


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Naughty Cav.


they were my exact words


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## Strathlubnaig (9 Jul 2013)

Nice sprint from Kittel, solid win. Cavendish definitely shouldered Veelers out the way though, he cut over to the left a long way, accidental but careless.


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yes, well done Kittel.
> 
> Was that Cav's fault? Hard to tell.


i think it was, he appeared to give him a proper shoulder barge as he went past...it's hard to tell why, i'm sure cav will clear it up.


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## Andy_R (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Naughty Cav.


He's not the messiah........


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## Strathlubnaig (9 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Is he keeping la Manche up his sleeve?


a bit better than the eurosport guy, he called it the North Sea.


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## dragon72 (9 Jul 2013)

No way was that accidental. It was a retaliation. Silly stuff from Cav.


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## tigger (9 Jul 2013)

That was a mess. OPQS bullied out of the way and it was game over with 1.7km to go. Strange finish really with the line only 100 metres past a near 90 degree bend. Cav gave Veelers a good shoulder barge didn't he? I wonder if there will be some ramifications?


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yes, well done Kittel.
> 
> Was that Cav's fault? Hard to tell.


so when you look at it, Veelers looked like he was there to protect Kittel's wheel and be of an amount of obstruction. 
Cav might get away with it but it is not ideal for him to have got mixed up there.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> What annoys me about the SIS guys is that they acknowledge this on the one hand, but then go on to say that if it was 6.5 w/kg ''I would be calling shenanigans for sure''. That's going from plausible to cheat within self-confessed error boundary on power estimate alone.


 
I take your point but I thought it was a reasonable comment in the context of everything else they say.

You know, picking on one line from the whole piece to destroy their argument is a bit like calling foul based on the evidence of one climb from a whole three week tour.


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## Strathlubnaig (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> To be fair, the article linked to by FM does cover that and advises caution when interpreting the data. It also makes the point that you can't draw firm conclusions from one-off performances like Saturday, you have to look at the bigger picture for the context.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it is certainly a fairly concise and so far the most analytical of all studies, and they make sure to highlight the weaknesses of any such analysis etc, however, as a one off climb and looking at times, both Froome and Portes ascent are in the suspicous zone, only Armstrong has gone faster, and that was just the one time. Armstrongs other ascents were slower. No conclusion can be drawn, yet.


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## Hip Priest (9 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> That was a mess. OPQS bullied out of the way and it was game over with 1.7km to go. Strange finish really with the line only 100 metres past a near 90 degree bend. Cav gave Veelers a good shoulder barge didn't he? I wonder if there will be some ramifications?


 

He just seemed to be trying to follow Griepel's wheel. Careless rather than malicious. I imagine he'll apologise to Veelers and it'll blow over.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Cav gave Veelers a good shoulder barge didn't he?


 
Yes, but in response to Veelers moving over towards his line. I call it 50:50, and Veelers was unlucky to come off worse.


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## Strathlubnaig (9 Jul 2013)

twitter lit up over the cavendish shoulder charge incident. Polarised opinions obviously. Brian Smith reckons accidental, Steve Bauer reckons malicous intent. tbc......


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I take your point but I thought it was a reasonable comment in the context of everything else they say.
> 
> You know, picking on one line from the whole piece to destroy their argument is a bit like calling foul based on the evidence of one climb from a whole three week tour.


 
I did, in fairness, say that I didn't have a problem with SIS, but rather with some of the other VAM analysts. It was just that sitting on the fence line they threw in there that annoyed me. I'd hardly call it trying to destroy their argument though. Just trying to contextualize it.

I'm as much of a power data geek as anyone. But it always needs context to be helpful.

Now if we could see Froome's and Porte's data file from Saturday, I'd be all over that. And you'd need both to interpret correctly.


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## tigger (9 Jul 2013)

Just stumbled on this link, it seems none of the Tour climbs times are actually timed. So sports scientists estimates of power output are in turn based on estimated times from someone with a stopwatch watching the TV coverage? Really??
http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=10280


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## kedab (9 Jul 2013)

haha! Cav' robbed the reporters tape recorder


----------



## yello (9 Jul 2013)

My call, without reading anyone else's opinion, that's a dq. It looked deliberate and dangerous to me and not a 'racing incident'. I reckon Cavendish maybe saw red after being caught behind a slowing lead out man and took 'revenge'. Irresponsible and no place for it. Now I'm off to see what the guys that matter say!


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I did, in fairness, say that I didn't have a problem with SIS, but rather with some of the other VAM analysts. It was just that sitting on the fence line they threw in there that annoyed me. I'd hardly call it trying to destroy their argument though. Just trying to contextualize it.
> 
> I'm as much of a power data geek as anyone. But it always needs context to be helpful.
> 
> Now if we could see Froome's and Porte's data file from Saturday, I'd be all over that. And you'd need both to interpret correctly.


 
I think we're pretty much of the same opinion, just differing slightly in how we say it...


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## triangles (9 Jul 2013)

I think I agree with Boardman, it looked as if Cav shifted his weight in anticipation of the collision rather than as part of a deliberate nudge


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

"*@MarkCavendish: *Not seen a replay of the final yet, but was involved in an incident with Tom Veelers. Whatever has happened, if I'm at fault, I'm sorry."

That almost sounds like an admission.


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## Chutzpah (9 Jul 2013)

My immediate take was that Veelers veered left then right. In the slow mo it looks bad on Cavendish but he knew there was going to be contact and braced himself. However, in real time there's that sudden realisation of contact and a bracing action. Why purposefully shoulder barge as some sort of retaliation at those speeds?

I haven't seen any argument online yet that has swayed me from that initial opinion.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

triangles said:


> I think I agree with Boardman, it looked as if Cav shifted his weight in anticipation of the collision rather than as part of a deliberate nudge


 
Makes sense. Veelers was definitely moving towards him.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

"*@MarkCavendish*: There's no way I'd move on a rider deliberately, especially one not contesting a sprint. I hope *@tom_veelers* is ok."


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> My call, without reading anyone else's opinion, that's a dq. It looked deliberate and dangerous to me and not a 'racing incident'. I reckon Cavendish maybe saw red after being caught behind a slowing lead out man and took 'revenge'. Irresponsible and no place for it. Now I'm off to see what the guys that matter say!


That was my first response when I saw it live, in fact I missed the sprint because I was concentrating on the crash. Then he nicked the guys recorder when he was asked about the crash, so I reckon, deliberate. Frustration boiling over. Should be a DQ unless the judges see it more Boardman's way but if I was a judge, DQ.


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Just stumbled on this link, it seems none of the Tour climbs times are actually timed. So sports scientists estimates of power output are in turn based on estimated times from someone with a stopwatch watching the TV coverage? Really??
> http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=10280


 
Sure. And that's just one of many problems in applying this method.

Riding at 6.5 w/kg for an hour is kind of the boundary of human physiology historically. Does that mean we can't perform better? Usain Bolt anyone?

Now to ride as high a power output up a hill as you can, ideally you will be evenly paced over the hour. Uneven pacing will reduce performance. Road racing is ALL about uneven performance. This makes comparisons between performances difficult. 

Then there's pacing. Then there's conditions. Then there's daily variability of fitness/freshness balance. Then there's stop/start of timing method.


----------



## yello (9 Jul 2013)

...and in other news, Europcar's Jerome Cousin (he of the Village People 'tache) has acquired the nickname 'Super Mario' from his team mates. Also, got most combative rider.


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## zizou (9 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> Having just read Tyler Hamilton's book - which I recommend by the way; despite seemingly now benefitting further from his doping - he uses an analogy of a match box. The match box contains a set number of matches. As you use one, it burns out. You then light another one when required but you will run out of matches eventually. Now, using that analogy for the climb on Saturday? would it be fair that Sky burnt quite a few matches and paid the price on Sunday? I cannot remember if he was referring to BBs (Blood bags) or micro doses of Edgar (EPO) but it works for me in context with Sky recent performance.


 
The match box analogy is common in cycling (and probably other endurance sports) and it isn't to do with doping. Everyone has the box of matches, doping would give them more matches to play with and replenish them quicker too - that Kiryienka, Porte etc were struggling so badly the next day is more suggestive of them being clean than doping. It is just suggestive though.


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## albion (9 Jul 2013)

Well, it is a shame so many are interested in anything but the cycling.
I started to read a media report and gave up after the first paragraph.

Too many are creating their own reality.
Gawd I thought all that was the preserve of football.


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## yello (9 Jul 2013)

I was waiting for that remark 

Off course people are going to be interested in the crashes/incidents, such stuff is a part of cycling. Certainly part of today's cycling! You might as well say 'why are people only interested in the sprint finish?'


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

Be fair - there's not a lot else to talk about in today's stage.


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## G3CWI (9 Jul 2013)

Getting fed up with the music now.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

"@MarkCavendish: Can all sprint experts on twitter go & try flicking their bike right at 65kph without leaning your body left to balance & come back to me."

Race jury have called no fault.


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## yello (9 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Race jury have called no fault.


 
And as Argos-Shimano haven't complained, that's the end of it.


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## SWSteve (9 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> It's not a great hotel TBH.
> I take it you were referring to the.... um.... "bar" next door ?


yes


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## fossyant (9 Jul 2013)

Looking at the replays, Veelers drifted and at this point wasn't paying attention. The corner added in a complication that everyone would have had to go off line to get round.


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## zizou (9 Jul 2013)

fossyant said:


> Looking at the replays, Veelers drifted and at this point wasn't paying attention. The corner added in a complication that everyone would have had to go off line to get round.


 
Was a messy 5k to go with the road furniture, traffic islands then the tight corner just before the sprint, surprised there was only the one crash!


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

Just took a closer look at the finish and realised I was somewhat confused. It doesn't help that Griepel and Cav are in national jerseys and that since those jerseys are predominantly white they are similar to the Argos-Shimano shirts...

Kittel's win is more impressive since he comes from behind Cav and has to make a large swerve to avoid the last Lotto lead out guy.

Looking back, Greipel seemed to have the conventional A1 position, while Kittel and Cav were attempting to come from further back and surf various passing slipstreams. That style of sprinting just looks dangerous when various guys are giving it a go at the same time.


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## thom (9 Jul 2013)

fossyant said:


> Looking at the replays, Veelers drifted and at this point wasn't paying attention. The corner added in a complication that everyone would have had to go off line to get round.


In his defence, given the left turn and that both Greipel and Kittel chose to start their sprints by going left, it was maybe reasonable to think Cav would jump that way too.


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## Sittingduck (9 Jul 2013)

First impression was that Cav was a bit naughty but after the replay I changed my view. I reckon he was anticipating a lot more of a swerve to the right from the guy he barged and would have neutralised it by leaning into him but it didn't pan out that way and the guy came off worse. No malice in Cav's actions, imho.


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## Monsieur Remings (9 Jul 2013)

I can't see any malice in it either. Like SittingDuck says above, it looked like an attempt to neutralise or counteract a potential nudge (again unintentional) from Veelers. Now, okay, it caused one in its turn but there was no intention there IMO.


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## fossyant (9 Jul 2013)

If you watch Veelers from the rear camera, he is off the boil not sprinting but then drifts, he's looking to the left as he goes in right towards Cav as Cav is going left following the others. Tough cookie Cav considering his size, doesn't knock him off line too much.


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## PaulB (9 Jul 2013)

I thought Cavendish had done it deliberately and haven't seen anything to change my mind back. It looked nasty from my perspective.


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## festival (9 Jul 2013)

PaulB said:


> I thought Cavendish had done it deliberately and haven't seen anything to change my mind back. It looked nasty from my perspective.


 
If you had ever been involved in bunch sprints albeit at club level, I don't see how you could ever come to that conclusion.
The 'deliberate' part was Cav seeing what was happening in front of him in the blink of an eye and ensuring he didn't come off worse. 
The Argos rider was guilty of sloppy riding at least and gamesmanship at worst, depending on what was going through his mind the moment he moved off his line.
All Cav was guilty of was giving an example of excellent bike handling, to ensure he stayed upright when threatened with danger by the other riders poor awareness.
Generally the aggressive sprinting of the past is not tolerated today due to the greater numbers of riders involved in the finale, but today, Cav's actions was nothing more than good bike handling to preserve his health in a dangerous situation caused by the other rider.


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jul 2013)

Veelers was being a touch cheeky and ever so slightly blocking Cav. The missile then responded a bit too impulsively imo. 

All this talk of Cav and his naughty antics! What about Kittel? He's in fine form and as Cav said in the interview, he is one of the worlds best just now. Griepel had no answer even though he was in a sound position to launch. 

Marcel kittel - Kudos.


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## SWSteve (9 Jul 2013)

When it's slowed right down it doesn't look good for Cav. But they're moving at obscene speeds and he came out then back, no blame for the Manxman in my eyes. Maybe he should be given the green jersey for being hard as nails.


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## albion (9 Jul 2013)

You have two things there. 
Cav is the one sprinting with extreme force o bars and pedals having to move out to overtake.
Yet he is the one keeping the straighter line with Veelers moving off line late on.

Veelers looked round to see riders on both sides to why did he not just keep a straight line?
That is quite easy when you have eased off the gas.

Cav called it right. In competition it is quite hard to know your line and he always has to fight the handlebars on sudden acceleration.
Likely Veeleres was also hiding the fact that he strategically held him up by accusing.


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## Crackle (9 Jul 2013)

I'm not convinced there was no intent, maybe not to knock him off but I reckon he was responding to Veelers moving about. You can see Veelers checking where he is and drifting over. It didn't look good on the replay and it didn't look good when it happened before I saw the replay. His only saving grace was that Veelers shifted his line, otherwise, dq.


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## VamP (9 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I'm not convinced there was no intent, maybe not to knock him off but I reckon he was responding to Veelers moving about. You can see Veelers checking where he is and drifting over. It didn't look good on the replay and it didn't look good when it happened before I saw the replay. His only saving grace was that Veelers shifted his line, otherwise, dq.


 

If Veelers hadn't moved off line there would have been no contact. As it was he only went down because he wasn't paying attention, which is a bad thing to do when you're at the head of a sprinting field. It was a slight contact and had he been aware of Cav, which he should have been, he wouldn't have gone down.


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## albion (9 Jul 2013)

The best anyone can say is 'a bit of each'.
And as Cav was the only one racing fighting his bike , Cavs err was the easier to make.


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## dragon72 (9 Jul 2013)

I must say, after last year's snore-fest, this year's tour has been fantastic viewing. 

Every single stage has produced something sensational to talk about. 

What the dickens is going to happen in the ITT tomorrow?!?!


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> What the dickens is going to happen in the ITT tomorrow?!?!



Andy Schleck wins by a large enough margin to put him in yellow. 

You heard it here first.


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## festival (9 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I'm not convinced there was no intent, maybe not to knock him off but I reckon he was responding to Veelers moving about. You can see Veelers checking where he is and drifting over. It didn't look good on the replay and it didn't look good when it happened before I saw the replay. His only saving grace was that Veelers shifted his line, otherwise, dq.


 

Of course he responding to Veelers moving about, its called good bike handling and an act of self preservation when another rider is threatening his safety.
If you break it all down to basics, Veelers was in the wrong place at the wrong time, some times you get away with it, sometimes you cause grief to others, while this time a clever rider ( Cav ) saw it coming and made sure he didn't suffer due to others poor riding.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2013)

Classic lead-out man gamesmanship by Veelers, accidentally on purpose getting in Cav's way just enough to put him off his sprint. And of course Cav pushed him away deliberately in return - what else is he going to do? Veelers got exactly what he deserved, and I expect the reason why Kittel didn't assign any blame was that he knew exactly what Veelers was doing.


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## Slaav (10 Jul 2013)

Having now looked at it several times I still think Cav 'leaned in' a bit more than required....

Having checked and reminded myself what sprint finishes are like - not so sure!

It is very tough at the end of these stages and I think the fact that Cav didnt continue to test the front two said volumes, in that he knew he had been impeeded and couldnt make the win and also was worried about what happended.

In F1; Racing incident, and move on....


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## montage (10 Jul 2013)

My thoughts on the finish - firstly, not a great place to put the finish. Whoever had the inside line was pretty much certain to win. Secondly, on that note, embarrassing for Greipel, he had that on a plate and decided to blame the road surface. Excellent sprint by Kittel, he is likely to be the next Cav. Veelers screwed Cav's chances. Lotto is by far the strongest sprint team, Cav lost today because he put faith in his team, which didn't work out so well. In my opinion he would be better off fighting for Greipels wheel in future sprints. With that corner next to the finish, today was all about the teamwork. David Millar still has serious firepower after a huge turn on the front, not that anybody was doubting it. GC contenders' teams staying on the front until the final 3km must be bloody annoying for the sprinters.

Finally, we really, really need Cav to show a display of dominance before the final stage - otherwise there will be heart attacks nationwide.


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## montage (10 Jul 2013)

Oh an on the Cav shoulder barge - he's friggin tiny. Do people really think he tried to use his body weight as a weapon? Newton's third law bla bla bla


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## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Is that Newton the Commissaire


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## raindog (10 Jul 2013)

Veelers should be glad that Cav isn't Australian, because that would've been a head-butt instead of a shoulder.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Veelers should be glad that Cav isn't Australian, because that would've been a head-butt instead of a shoulder.


 
Well, exactly - Robbie would have put Veelers through the barriers!


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## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Day of truth for Bertie if he is planning an Alpine attack, he can't afford to lose anytime today.


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## raindog (10 Jul 2013)

this should be better
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/renshaw-to-ride-for-omega-pharma-quick-step-in-2014


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## Dave Davenport (10 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> What the dickens is going to happen in the ITT tomorrow?!?!


 
Froome carries on past the finish line into the monastery and lives there the rest of his life, as a monk.


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## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Day of truth for Bertie if he is planning an Alpine attack, he can't afford to lose anytime today.



He's going to lose some time. That's a given.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

I have a horrible feeling Froome will take even more time out of his main rivals today than he did on Saturday.

My prediction: Valverde will be a GC write-off after today.


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> ... Does that mean we can't perform better? Usain Bolt anyone? ...


Not want to get into the discussion on the "was/is Sky clean or not debate", but Bolt might be a bit of a dangerous example to use...

Even though Jamaica has always been a good (flat out) sprinting country...lately they have become a bit too (fishy) dominant... even starting to have competitive sprinters in the hurdles sprinting numbers... and the Jamaican Athletics Union (or whatever it is called) isn't really famous for their doping checks


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, exactly - Robbie would have put Veelers through the barriers!


I guess that's why Robbie supported Cav on this  :
"What happened with @*MarkCavendish* & Veelers was an accident. Cav sprinting & Veelers looking down drifted right. Looks like Tom is ok #*tough*"


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## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Not want to get into the discussion on the "was/is Sky clean or not debate", but Bolt might be a bit of a dangerous example to use...
> 
> Even though Jamaica has always been a good (flat out) sprinting country...lately they have become a bit too (fishy) dominant... even starting to have competitive sprinters in the hurdles sprinting numbers... and the Jamaican Athletics Union (or whatever it is called) isn't really famous for their doping checks




Not wishing to debate how clean track sprinting is either. But against the best (doped) performances of 10-15 years back, Bolt completely redefined the definition of the possible. So even if it's a supplemented performance, it's still paradigm shifting. That was my point.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Bolt might be a bit of a dangerous example to use...



My thoughts exactly, but let's not go there - not in this thread, anyway.


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> What the dickens is going to happen in the ITT tomorrow?!?!


Tony Martin crashes - scraping off whatever skin there was still left on his back - but due to the extra loss of weight can go even faster and still win it
Ten Dam - after chugging a bottle of red wine before the start - is in super form and takes the yellow jersey
Sagan - wanting to show his form - takes a small detour and rides the Mont Saint Michel up before crossing the finish line.
Pierre Rolland - realizing how stupid he looks - finally decides to wear some less ridiculous looking outfit

(This evening after seeing Sagan in the highlights Cav, Greipel and Kittel ask Prudhomme if there is a possibility to have a new/extra sprinting jersey in the coming years claiming it to be unfair to have to compete with him for green)


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## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I have a horrible feeling Froome will take even more time out of his main rivals today than he did on Saturday.
> 
> My prediction: Valverde will be a GC write-off after today.


I wouldn't be so sure about Valverde, he put up a decent performance in last years Vuelta.

Mind they could all be write offs if Froome is on a good day.


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## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Laurens Ten Dam is doing rather well at the Strava Take on the Tour challenge.


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Laurens Ten Dam is doing rather well at the Strava Take on the Tour challenge.


 
I'm averaging just over 3 hours a week more cycling than him  Yet his mileage is over 1/3rd more than mine and he has climbed nearly 600,000 ft more than me.


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about Valverde, he put up a decent performance in last years Vuelta.
> 
> Mind they could all be write offs if Froome is on a good day.


He also put in a decent effort in the Spanish TT.. losing only 2 minutes on Catroviejo in a TT that lasted almost an hour


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about Valverde, he put up a decent performance in last years Vuelta.


 
On the other hand, he had an absolute stinker at the Dauphine last month, as did Contador...

Also, the Vuelta TT had a Cat 3 climb slap bang in the middle of it, with a tricky technical descent, while today's route is mostly pretty flat. My guess is Valverde will lose at least two minutes to Froome.

But nor would I be at all surprised if I was completely wrong on that and he puts in a blinder. 



> Mind they could all be write offs if Froome is on a good day.


 
True dat.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> He also put in a decent effort in the Spanish TT.. losing only 2 minutes on Catroviejo in a TT that lasted almost an hour


 
_Only_ two minutes? He can't afford to lose that to Froome.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Laurens Ten Dam is doing rather well at the Strava Take on the Tour challenge.


 
He's lower on the leaderboard for that than he is on the real Tour's GC!


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Mind they could all be write offs if Froome is on a good day.


Wasn't just about everyone already written off on Saturday? 




smutchin said:


> _Only_ two minutes? He can't afford to lose that to Froome.


Yeah, but even before the Tour everybody knew that most of the top (Spanish) contenders would be facing a small set-back/blow today. I believe most would be "happy" (content) with loosing only about 1m30 (except Evans) vs. Froome, which - looking at the Spanish TT - might even be manageable for Valverde.


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## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

It wouldn't surprise me if Tuft stays on top of the rankings till the Armored Car comes racing through... nice time of him


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## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Of course Valverde could lose 2 mins to Froome and still be in 2nd on the GC. 

TT times in races outside the GTs have not always been a reliable guide to form for GC contenders in the past, except the specialists of course, seems they only pull one out when they need it.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2013)

Mollema and Ten Dam may well move ahead of Valverde today, Quintana, Martin, Contador and Valverde could all go down, as said it just depends on the day. It seems a given that Froome will ride well but I'm not sure there are any given's in this race so far.

Edit: Excepting Sagan


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Wasn't just about everyone already written off on Saturday? 


Even more written off then


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## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if Tuft stays on top of the rankings till the Armored Car comes racing through... nice time of him


 
That is a good time from Tuft! OGE are hoping he'll podium today, so he should be a good reference point. A minute faster than Westra, 2 minutes faster than Stannard.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Mollema and Ten Dam may well move ahead of Valverde today, Quintana, Martin, Contador and Valverde could all go down, as said it just depends on the day.


 
Not sure about Ten Dam. He's not a great time triallist, is he? I hope you're right though - I'd love to see him do well.


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> That is a good time from Tuft!


 
38 minutes is about what they were predicting for the stage winner, isn't it?


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> 38 minutes is about what they were predicting for the stage winner, isn't it?


 
It looks like a good effort for sure. Bauer has reported that the last 15 km is into a fairly strong headwind, so that could mess with a) people's pacing and b) the overall result if that headwind changes over the course of the race.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Boom gone out fast!


----------



## oldroadman (10 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> this should be better
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/renshaw-to-ride-for-omega-pharma-quick-step-in-2014


 If it happens it will be good news for cav, then he can use Steegmans as a workhorse a bit earlier to shove all the other trains about a bit, before releasing Renshaw to find gaps that should not exist. I think his chances of a Champs Elysee win are not looking great unless OPQS suddenly sort themselves out, or he can manage to feed off Lotto and Argos trains successfully.
As for the comment about being small, yes that's true, but it helps you get under people and makes them easier to shift!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Martin fastest at 9.5 km


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> It looks like a good effort for sure. Bauer has reported that the last 15 km is into a fairly strong headwind, so that could mess with a) people's pacing and b) the overall result if that headwind changes over the course of the race.


That wind direction sounds all wrong to me - the air pressure maps are pretty stable and the wind is likely to remain north-easterly for a few days. I'd expect them to have a tailwind on the right shoulder for much of the last 15km and a crosswind when they head north to Mont St Michel.


----------



## oldroadman (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> That is a good time from Tuft! OGE are hoping he'll podium today, so he should be a good reference point. A minute faster than Westra, 2 minutes faster than Stannard.


 Bear in mind that the Sky domestiques, like all the others, will simply be getting it done, and no doing anything that will impact on more important work, looking after the yellow.


----------



## iLB (10 Jul 2013)

Two more things on Cav, looks like Renshaw will be linking up with him at OPQS again next year, and apparently he's had bottles full of piss thrown at him during the TT today. That is grim.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not sure about Ten Dam. He's not a great time triallist, is he? I hope you're right though - I'd love to see him do well.


Not great no but he's shaved his beard off this year, that's gotta be worth a minute.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

I don't think Tuft will be in the lead for much longer.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

Blimey Martin has smashed it


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Yup


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Blimey Martin has smashed it


 

Did you ever doubt it? He is a monster


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2013)

imagine being able to ride that fast on a flat road.

what a monster.


----------



## raindog (10 Jul 2013)

Martin was on 58x11 for that.


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Martin was on 58x11 for that.


 
I'm not sure I could even turn that kind of gear downhill.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Sean Kelly predicts that Froome will put 1 minute 28 seconds into Contador today 

I wonder if he does lottery numbers as well?


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

Biggest gear on my TT bike is 53:12 and I hardly ever get in that!


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Martin was on 58x11 for that.





smutchin said:


> I'm not sure I could even turn that kind of gear downhill.


I am not even sure I can do that multiplication


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> ...Excepting Sagan


12 seconds behind Martin at first at 9.5 KM .... this guy has really some unique skills
EDIT: oops 12 seconds behind Tuft ... bloody Letour website can't even show times compared to Martin's time  ... still pretty good from Sagan though


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Sean Kelly predicts that Froome will put 1 minute 28 seconds into Contador today


 
Wow 1m28 ... that's is awfully specific 
Does he have an algorithm for that or something?


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

Castroviejo was 1.52 down on TM if you can work out a line from that to Valverde!


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Castroviejo was 1.52 down on TM if you can work out a line from that to Valverde!


Yeah, but we haven't got a comparison point how good Froome or (probably more relevant) the other GC riders will do


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Wow 1m28 ... that's is awfully specific
> Does he have an algorithm for that or something?


 
I think he *might* have been trying to be funny.

Martin cautiously optimistic his time might be good enough to win  Yes Tony, you've demolished it!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Sagan posts 38:47


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Yeah, but we haven't got a comparison point how good Froome or (probably more relevant) the other GC riders will do


Of course! I was just throwing it out there for the stattos.
If you assume Froome will be 30 seconds behind Martin - and Valverde would be a minute and a half behind Castroviejo then Froome will take 2m 22secs out of Valverde


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Of course! I was just throwing it out there for the stattos.
> If you assume Froome will be 30 seconds behind Martin - and Valverde would be a minute and a half behind Castroviejo then Froome will take 2m 22secs out of Valverde


 
Might be more fruitful to wait and see


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Might be more fruitful to wait and see


Indeed but I was just giving you a chance to get an in-play bet on!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

OK I bet that Valverde will still be in the top ten after today


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Indeed but I was just giving you a chance to get an in-play bet on!


well, you just need to ask ... 
Contador loses 1m52
Valverde loses 1m34

EDIT: and while I am at it, Chavanel will beat De Gendt at the finish


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Dumoulin on a charge.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

OK here's an in-play bet. I bet that TJ has overcooked the start and ends outside the top 10 for the stage.


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## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> OK here's an in-play bet. I bet that TJ has overcooked the start and ends outside the top 10 for the stage.


How much did you have on!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> How much did you have on!


 
£100 at 10:1. I'll get you my Paypal details shortly...


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> £100 at 10:1. I'll get you my Paypal details shortly...


I think Ray Winstone is paying out on this one...


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Anybody wants to take an in-play bet if Porte will give it all or not?


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

I think he will. I think it's his best chance of a stage win this year.


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> OK here's an in-play bet. I bet that TJ has overcooked the start and ends outside the top 10 for the stage.


Damn... even worse than I would have thought... he's behind Taaramae and Coppel


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Might be more fruitful to wait and see


 
Where's the fun in that? We want speculation!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Damn... even worse than I would have thought... he's behind Taaramae and Coppel


 
Yeah he might not make the top forty.


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Cadel must be having a quiet chuckle to himself right now.


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Pierre Rolland - realizing how stupid he looks - finally decides to wear some less ridiculous looking outfit


 
Hey!?! I got the least plausible one correct...
I believe I just saw Rolland with full red shorts on


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

Did you know, you can divide the distance by 3?

That is one of the jewels of information those doofus's on ITV4 have imparted on their viewers. Shame they think one third of 33km is 10km, lol!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Porte for podium?


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Hey!?! I got the least plausible one correct...
> I believe I just saw Rolland with full red shorts on


 
I guess they couldn't get a full polka dot skinsuit in time. Or a TT hat.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

OK final wild guess of the day. Top three to end like that. Martin, De Gendt, Porte.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Did you know, you can divide the distance by 3?
> 
> That is one of the jewels of information those doofus's on ITV4 have imparted on their viewers. Shame they think one third of 33km is 10km, lol!


 
That's nothing. Apparently the riders have also been training with power attached to their machines to get their heart rate in the correct zone, which is apparently between 175 and 180 bpm.


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> That's nothing. Apparently the riders have also been training with power attached to their machines to get their heart rate in the correct zone, which is apparently between 175 and 180 bpm.


 

Just heard that one!

Edit: Cadel Evans is a proper tyre toucher, lol


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Cadel must be having a quiet chuckle to himself right now.


 He's not the only one


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> OK final wild guess of the day. Top three to end like that. Martin, De Gendt, Porte.


 
I'll go for: Martin, Kwiatkowski, Froome

De Gendt's time is going to be hard to beat though, never mind Martin's.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> He's not the only one


 
I don't think he's chuckling anymore!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'll go for: Martin, Kwiatkowski, Froome
> 
> De Gendt's time is going to be hard to beat though, never mind Martin's.


 
I think the wind is becoming more adverse...


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Schleck will loose so much time it seems .... 5 seconds slower than Voeckler (who isn't even riding for a GC) at 1st time check


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I think the wind is becoming more adverse...


 
I predict Quintana will get carried off course by a strong gust and lose 15 minutes.


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

Peraud looks incredibly uncomfortable, constant saddle shuffle! Looks like he shuffles back every few seconds.


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Martin Froome Kreuziger


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2013)

Froome to take 58'' off Valverde.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Peraud looks incredibly uncomfortable, constant saddle shuffle! Looks like he shuffles back after few seconds.


 
Saddlesores!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Martin Froome Kreuziger


 
That would be an awesome effort from Kreuziger. One might say 'unbelievable'.


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Has anybody told Quintana timetrialing is about sitting in your saddle and moving as least as possbile?


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Quintana has a beautiful position on the bike.


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Quintana has a beautiful position on the bike.


He has a lot of beautiful positions, that's what he is showing today


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Has anybody told Quintana timetrialing is about sitting in your saddle and moving as least as possbile?


 
Are we seeing the same pictures? I was just thinking how smooth he looked.


----------



## Sittingduck (10 Jul 2013)

Was reading about what happened to Cav today, in the wake of yesterdays episode. Some sick ppl out there.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

Quiet Offski seems to have gone out too fast too


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Quintana gonna lose shedloads today.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

User said:


> lost connection, when reconnected CK was ask Sean Kelly about a book signing, does SK have a new book on the way or have I totally got the wrong end of the stick, thanks...


Apparently so, called Hunger


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Are we seeing the same pictures? I was just thinking how smooth he looked.


 
Regardless of what he looks like, he's not going very fast from the sound of it...


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

A Schleck recapturing his time trialling form.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2013)

Shlecking Heck!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Contador gone out very fast! Too fast?


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> A Schleck recapturing his time trialling form.


Liggett just said Schleck exploded all over Normandy... Rather unfortunate turn of phrase there Phil


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Liggett just said Schleck exploded all over Normandy... Rather unfortunate turn of phrase there Phil


 
Was that before or after he blew up?


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Kwiatek 4th, ten seconds off the podium places. Not bad.


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Froome looks super smooth


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Quiet Offski seems to have gone out too fast too


or not!


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

Molema drools almost as much as me!


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Molema drools almost as much as me!


 
It's a great look! I thought it was ten Dam though.


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

Froome fastest @ 9.5 km : 1 sec up on TMartin - dude that is impressive


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> It's a great look! I thought it was ten Dam though.


 
I think you may be correct, I am just glancing occasionally so mistakes likely. A few shoelaces dangling from chin down to his chest though 

Froome keeps putting his head down to make himself more aero, apparently........... nothing to do with him suffering, or looking at his power meter readout.......


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

20 secs up on Valverde allready


----------



## Sittingduck (10 Jul 2013)

Go Froomedawg!


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Froome fastest at first split. Faster than Martin. FFS.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Now the question we all want to know the answer to - has Froome gone out too fast? Because if he's riding negative splits we are about to witness something truly unbelievable!


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

Kreuzinger so far remains under my expectations

EDIT: For what it's worth Costa really underperformed as well


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

That yellow saddle is a touch too far!


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> That yellow saddle is a touch too far!


It puts a taint on the bike




edit : anybody spot the pun there !?


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Mollema slightly down on Valverde at the first split, so that's another of my predictions down the toilet.


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Mollema slightly down on Valverde at the first split, so that's another of my predictions down the toilet.


They did get flushed together or after with my predictions?


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

By the way, the guy from Eurosport has a weird way of pronouncing Mollema
EDIT: but okay... Dutch is a hard language to pronounce correctly


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Mollema slightly down on Valverde at the first split, so that's another of my predictions down the toilet.


 I dunno, Quintana wasn't far off the 15 minute loss you'd suggested


----------



## Sittingduck (10 Jul 2013)

Whats with the comedy moustache?


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

Froome 2 secs ahead of TM at 22km - nice one


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Mollema now two seconds ahead of Valverde at 2nd split.

Froome looking like he might catch Valverde...


----------



## montage (10 Jul 2013)

Incredible from Froome!

....and fantastic from Ten Dam!


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2013)

What was the wind like for Martin versus Froome?


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

No offense, but I am rooting for Martin to make it... Froome has the yellow jersey and is putting his opposition even further away... I think the unfortunate Martin deserves it


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Wow. Contador has lost 2.15 to Martin at the finish. He's out of the reckoning now, if he wasn't already.


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Where's Froome in the points contest ?


----------



## The Couch (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wow. Contador has lost 2.15 to Martin at the finish. He's out of the reckoning now, if he wasn't already.


The podium places (after Froome) are still wide open I believe


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Good effort by Ten Dam.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

Good ride by Mollema.


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> No offense, but I am rooting for Martin to make it... Froome has the yellow jersey and is putting his opposition even further away... I think the unfortunate Martin deserves it


 

I am rooting for Martin too, just because I like him more..........


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2013)

Those Belkin two are being very consistent so far and nobody seems to really notice them.


----------



## montage (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> No offense, but I am rooting for Martin to make it... Froome has the yellow jersey and is putting his opposition even further away... I think the unfortunate Martin deserves it


 

I think the same, then I keep seeing Martin's face pop up on the top left hand corner and I am reminded of how incredibly boring he is. Go Frooooome


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

I think Valverde will be pleased with that.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

well done TM and CF


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

TM gets it by 11 secs from Froome - massive for Froome in the GC


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

OK, so Mollema beats Valverde by 1 second, so I was kind of right. Valverde did better than I was expecting.

And Martin wins the stage!


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> The podium places (after Froome) are still wide open I believe


 
Yes, agreed. They're all racing for second place now though. If they weren't already.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 Jul 2013)

Glad Martin won that, he deserved the stage. Froome has done some damage though, the opposition needs to take the fight now.


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

That was a world class ride by Froome. I hadn't anticipated he'd be that dominant TBH.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

Big losers, Quintana?
Andy Schleck too, an even worse time trialler than Matt Goss


----------



## thom (10 Jul 2013)

*1. *GBR FROOME Christopher 1 SKY PROCYCLING *42h 29' 24''*​*2. *ESP VALVERDE Alejandro 121 MOVISTAR TEAM *42h 32' 49''*+ 03' 25''​*3. *NED MOLLEMA Bauke 164 BELKIN PRO CYCLING *42h 33' 01''*+ 03' 37''​*4. *ESP CONTADOR Alberto 91 TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF *42h 33' 18''*+ 03' 54''​*5. *CZE KREUZIGER Roman 94 TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF *42h 33' 21''*+ 03' 57''​*6. *NED TEN DAM Laurens 167 BELKIN PRO CYCLING *42h 33' 34''*+ 04' 10''​*7. *POL KWIATKOWSKI Michal 153 OMEGA PHARMA-QUICK STEP *42h 34' 08''*+ 04' 44''​*8. *COL QUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander 128 MOVISTAR TEAM *42h 34' 42''*+ 05' 18''​*9. *POR COSTA Rui Alberto 124 MOVISTAR TEAM *42h 35' 01''*+ 05' 37''​*10. *FRA PÉRAUD Jean-Christophe 81 AG2R LA MONDIALE *42h 35' 03''*+ 05' 39''​ 
2 -> 6 places all within 45 secs - is this good or bad for Froome with regards to collaborations ?
Quintana will be given some rope to attack given he's so far back but if Ten Dam or Kreuziger attack Froome, the other high placing guys won't be so keen to let them go.


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2013)

Anyone got the splits?


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Anyone got the splits?


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/livematch/570465.html


----------



## oldgreyandslow (10 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Anyone got the splits?


 
Loperamide works for that


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

Wonder who is in the team bus now, saying"well there is always the vuelta !"


----------



## dragon72 (10 Jul 2013)

Three minutes and twenty five seconds.
That's the length of a pop song, for goodness sake.


----------



## suzeworld (10 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Three minutes and twenty five seconds.
> That's the length of a pop song, for goodness sake.


Got one in mind?


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Big losers, Quintana?
> Andy Schleck too, an even worse time trialler than Matt Goss


 
Dan Martin had a stinker today.


----------



## dragon72 (10 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Dan Martin had a stinker today.


 
He's deffo Oirish then. :troll:


----------



## VamP (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> OK final wild guess of the day. Top three to end like that. Martin, De Gendt, Porte.


 
Would have been a good guess, if Froome hadn't turned out to be even more superhuman than he already was.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Would have been a good guess, if Froome hadn't turned out to be even more superhuman than he already was.


Ray says he's not paying out each way on that one though!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2013)

suzeworld said:


> Got one in mind?


It doesn't matter which song it was, just how long it stays at number one


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2013)

Joaquim Rodriguez had a shocker and Andy Schleck fell down a big hole. I was expecting worse from Quintana, better from Dan Martin and worse from Contador and Valverede.

I also need to shake the image of Ten Dam drooling and so does Ten Dam, shake that is.


----------



## craigwend (10 Jul 2013)

to the tune of ITV 4's theme tune you can sing:

_It's __Pepé Le Pew _ (repeat to end....)



does this spoil things?


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Joaquim Rodriguez had a shocker and Andy Schleck fell down a big hole. I was expecting worse from Quintana, better from Dan Martin and worse from Contador and Valverede.
> 
> I also need to shake the image of Ten Dam drooling and so does Ten Dam, shake that is.



I don't think Purito or Schleck surprised anyone with their performances today but they were never really contenders anyway. Schleck didn't really do that badly by his standards. I thought Dan Martin might do a wee bit better though.

Contador and Valverde have shown that they're realistic prospects for the other podium places. Ho hum.

I'm very pleasantly surprised with Mollema and Ten Dam so far, and I'm still hopeful that Mollema can nick one of those podium spots. (Yeah, I know I bigged up Mollema before the race bit I'm as surprised as anyone to actually see him still in the top three at this stage.  )

Kwiatkowski is showing himself to be the new Talansky, which is just as well because the old Talansky is turning out to have been a flash in the pan. It's going to be an interesting battle between him and Quintana for the white jersey between now and Paris.


----------



## Winnershsaint (10 Jul 2013)

Ten dam looked worse than my aging Irish Setter following a long hot walk in the fields


----------



## SWSteve (10 Jul 2013)

craigwend said:


> to the tune of ITV 4's theme tune you can sing:
> 
> _It's __Pepé Le Pew _ (repeat to end....)
> 
> ...




 that will be all I can hear from now on


----------



## SWSteve (10 Jul 2013)

Watched the highlights before heading off on my own bicycle. Didn't expect Froome to put that much above everyone else, then again I think the polka-dot shorts are perfectly acceptable so it shows what I know


----------



## lukesdad (10 Jul 2013)

I think JRo might have had another GT in mind before this one even started.


----------



## Buddfox (11 Jul 2013)

It's a massive gap but with Ventoux and the Alps still to come there's plenty of opportunity for the others to make time back - particularly if there is a repeat of Sunday's calamity. Sky will need to be so focused if they want to take this all the way to Paris.


----------



## dellzeqq (11 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> *1. *GBR FROOME Christopher 1 SKY PROCYCLING *42h 29' 24''*
> *2. *ESP VALVERDE Alejandro 121 MOVISTAR TEAM *42h 32' 49''*+ 03' 25''
> *3. *NED MOLLEMA Bauke 164 BELKIN PRO CYCLING *42h 33' 01''*+ 03' 37''
> *4. *ESP CONTADOR Alberto 91 TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF *42h 33' 18''*+ 03' 54''
> ...


a good point. I think this is great news for Froome. Nothing's going to stop Movistar going for it, but Saxo won't be doing much to help.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2013)

If Froome keeps this lead all the way to Paris, without having a bad day or two and losing some or even a lot of his lead to concerted attacks, I might normally be very suspicious indeed. But the thing is that none of the current top 10 have got much in the way of an incentive to change very much for any reason other than personal pride, with the exception of Kwiatowski and Péraud. Tinkoff (get used to the name...), Belkin and Movistar all do very well out of the current situation in terms of World Tour points (better than Sky, in fact). It would make more sense for all of them to play it relatively safe, control any attacks from lower down the field and keep their own attacks in the mountains strictly last minute for stage wins (a Quintana speciality). I don't think Froome needs his own Sky team to protect the current standings...

So I'd watch out for the biggest efforts to shake up the GC coming from Kwiatowski and Péraud, Rodriguez in 11th and Moreno in 18th (Katusha's highest placed riders), Fuglsang in 12th (ditto for Astana), and especially Nieve and Anton for Euskaltel in 15th and 20th, Poels in 23rd for Vacansoleil (all of whom may need a new team in 2014). I'm not sure about Niemiec's form for Lampre, but I can see him going for a stage in the Alps at least.


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Wonder who is in the team bus now, saying"well there is always the vuelta !"


Costa perhaps? (he didn't seem fully committed yesterday - and might have realized it's clear he's now third in line)

By the way, it wouldn't surprise me that Monfort is using the Tour to build up his form for the Vuelta as well


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> and especially Nieve and Anton for Euskaltel in 15th and 20th, Poels in 23rd for Vacansoleil (all of whom may need a new team in 2014).



I was just thinking about Nieve myself, as the other big TT loser who we haven't mentioned much so far. He's been going well until yesterday. Hope he lands on his feet. 

I didn't realise this was Poels's first GT. He also deserves to get picked up by a bigger team.

Anton looks like another with an eye on the Vuelta.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Interesting stat: Nieve has finished the Vuelta and the Giro twice each, and has placed 10th on every occasion. 

Wonder what the odds are on him finishing this Tour in 10th place...


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Big losers, Quintana?
> Andy Schleck too, an even worse time trialler than Matt Goss


 
Quintana's performance was still in (my) expectations... although others might have done much better (Belkin anyone?) than expected, which indeed makes him still the loser



The Couch said:


> Schleck will loose so much time it seems .... 5 seconds slower than Voeckler (who isn't even riding for a GC) at 1st time check


Andy seems to really have been targeting the pace of Voeckler... he ended 5 seconds slower at the finish line as well... that's just weird 

Losers that have missed the conversation a bit: Euskaltel
Anton didn't do a whole lot better than Schleck and Nieve actually did more than half a minute worse than Schleck


----------



## VamP (11 Jul 2013)

FWIW Kreuziger reckons that Contador will gamble it all in the Alps. Could be posturing.


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> FWIW Kreuziger reckons that Contador will gamble it all in the Alps. Could be posturing.


Well, if he doesn't try in the Alps... he can always gamble it on the Champs-Elysees


----------



## VamP (11 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Well, if he doesn't try in the Alps... he can always gamble it on the Champs-Elysees


 
The other option being that he rides for second and doesn't try anything risky.


----------



## lukesdad (11 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> The other option being that he rides for second and doesn't try anything risky.


 You are joking, right ?


----------



## VamP (11 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> You are joking, right ?


 
of course


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> The other option being that he rides for second and doesn't try anything risky.


Well, at the moment that Froome tries/is dropping everyone on the Ventoux Valverde, Contador, Mollema and Quintana can start fighting for his wheel, to take some of the slipstream (like the sprinters fighting for the wheel of Cavendish in HTC-Columbia times)... hoing to end in 2nd place and maybe, just maybe, nicking it on the finish line....

Sounds smart


----------



## VamP (11 Jul 2013)

I suppose the one thing that remains to be seen is if Movistar, Belkin and Saxo work together to try and break Froome, or if they give up on the win and have a fight for the podium.

In all honesty though, Froome just doesn't seem to have any weaknesses right now.


----------



## tigger (11 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> In all honesty though, Froome just doesn't seem to have any weaknesses right now.


 
True, individually he is incredibly strong, but as we have seen his weakness is his team at the moment. It was notable even on stage 10 on Tuesday he had no one around him in the last 10k or so other than Stannard. Contador doesn't usually race for second, and provided he is feeling better (the signs yesterday were quite good I think) then my prediction is that Saxo and Movistar will attack from early on in stage 15 (Ventoux). Stage 14 is lumpy and ripe for the breakaway, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some fuel added to the fire here too, to help tire and demotivate Sky further. Garmin and Dan Martin have to be watched on this stage too. If Froome continually gets isolated early, with strength in numbers from the other teams, plus has a bit of a bad day he can lose bucket loads of time. And we haven't even got to the double ascent of the Alpe yet!


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

I still think Valverde will get found out in the Alps and finish outside the podium places.


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I still think Valverde will get found out in the Alps and finish outside the podium places.


Since everybody currently is still very close together, it isn't far reached to say that... but I do have the feeling that the TT performances show that Valverde is pretty good (and Contador is on the way up), so I am inclined at this moment to believe we might end up with these 2 on the podium

But let's just wait for week 3, where it will all (have to) happen


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I still think Valverde will get found out in the Alps and finish outside the podium places.


Although you might be right and this thing can happen:


The Couch said:


> ...
> 3rd place: De Gendt
> After loosing close to 2 hours in the mountain stages nobody believed he could pull off the solo he started in the first kilometer of the last mountain stage. However with a performance that outshined his last year's Giro stage-win, the non-existing form he had shown this year and due to a peloton where no team seemed willing to take the lead of getting the difference down, he managed the incredible feat of taking enough time back to take the 3rd place.​


 
Looking at yesterday's performance of De Gendt.... do you feel his form rising?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Since everybody currently is still very close together, it isn't far reached to say that... but I do have the feeling that the TT performances show that Valverde is pretty good (and Contador is on the way up), so I am inclined at this moment to believe we might end up with these 2 on the podium


 
I felt the real reason Movistar didn't try to really put the hurt on Froome on Sunday is because Valverde didn't have the legs. You saw the way he reacted when Quintana attacked on the final climb - I don't think that was just tactical...

I predict that when Contador goes kamikaze in the Alps, as we are all assuming he will, Valverde won't be able to follow.

But this could just be wishful thinking because I don't much like him. Admittedly, he did better than I expected in the TT yesterday.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Looking at yesterday's performance of De Gendt.... do you feel his form rising?


 
Yes, De Gendt is having a stormer, isn't he? He's another who needs to impress potential suitors.


----------



## tigger (11 Jul 2013)

Anyway, back to today. I hope for everyone's sake that Cav wins today!


----------



## raindog (11 Jul 2013)

This Cav/Veelers thing is now out of control. Apparently he's been informed by the organisers that he's no longer welcome, FFS, at a Dutch Crit where he races every year.
While Adam and Vasseur were just talking about this, they once again showed the long version of the slo-mo from the helicopter, and you can clearly see Veelers look over his shoulder and then move onto Cav's line.


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> This Cav/Veelers thing is now out of control. Apparently he's been informed by the organisers that he's no longer welcome, FFS, at a Dutch Crit where he races every year.
> While Adam and Vasseur were just talking about this, they once again showed the long version of the slo-mo from the helicopter, and you can clearly see Veelers look over his shoulder and then move onto Cav's line.


Well, if Cav should win today, he'll feel better, probably should have less of a problem to apologize decently (not commenting whether or not I believe he was in error, but clearly Veelers is still asking for a more extensive apology) and everything might still blow over


----------



## VamP (11 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Well, if Cav should win today, he'll feel better, probably should have less of a problem to apologize decently (not commenting whether or not I believe he was in error, but clearly Veelers is still asking for a more extensive apology) and everything might still blow over


 
Is he?

I saw this quote today

"Mark Cavendish and I clashed, but don’t forget that this is a sprint and it’s always very chaotic. My recovery is going well, and even though I crashed quite hard I am looking forward to today and will give myself 100 percent to help position Marcel well. I’m ready to throw myself into today’s battle.”

He sounds quite accepting.


----------



## Rob3rt (11 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> This Cav/Veelers thing is now out of control. Apparently he's been informed by the organisers that he's no longer welcome, FFS, at a Dutch Crit where he races every year.
> While Adam and Vasseur were just talking about this, they once again showed the long version of the slo-mo from the helicopter, and *you can clearly see Veelers look over his shoulder and then move onto Cav's line.*


 

When I watched this, some days ago and not that critically, it looked to me like he looked before Cav made any sort of jump, while Cav was directly behind (i.e. before any line was picked), he then looked forward again and started to drift, he should have possibly just kept going straight so is not completely innocent, but I didn't think it looked like he veered in any particular direction with purpose.

I am in the unfortunate incident camp.


----------



## raindog (11 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Well, if Cav should win today, he'll feel better, probably should have less of a problem to apologize decently (not commenting whether or not I believe he was in error, but clearly Veelers is still asking for a more extensive apology) and everything might still blow over


Well, the Tour judges have said it was Veelers fault, so it's difficult to see what Cav could apologise for, and it might be nice for Cav to get an apology for having a bottle of p-ss thrown over him (presumably by a Dutch or German fan), yesterday.
Cedric Vasseur, commentating on FranceTelevision, has said time and again that Cav did nothing wrong. And it's rare that a Frenchman will side with an Englishman.


----------



## The Couch (11 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I am in the unfortunate incident camp.


I tend to agree...

Veelers drifted
Cav seemed to want to go to the left side for the upcoming corner, but made this move to early and wasn't passed Veelers yet (and braced for impact)



VamP said:


> ...He (Veelers) sounds quite accepting.


I read the follwoing quote today:
"There are 218 kilometers (in the stage today) and in the final there won't be much time to talk. So it will have to be done earlier. And I'll only draw a line through this when I get some excuses. Otherwise, it will still linger."


----------



## User169 (11 Jul 2013)

The Dutchies I work with are up in arms: Cav very definitely in the wrong, according to them!


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2013)

Ok, I reckon Cav. 

Or Greipel, or Kittel


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Ok, I reckon Cav.
> 
> Or Greipel, or Kittel


 
Or Sagan. Or Kristoff. Or EBH. Or Ferrari. Or Goss...

Leftfield prediction: William Bonnet.

Nah, sod that... I'm sticking to my guns and backing Cav all the way.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Greipel down?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Yup, Greipel's out. OPQS have got this one right today.

Come on, Cav!


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2013)

"And you'll never catch Cavendish at this stage of the race...."

Kittel gets his 3rd stage win - chapeau


----------



## Herzog (11 Jul 2013)

Wow...thought Kittel was in no mans land at the start of the sprint.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Wow! Kittel!


----------



## raindog (11 Jul 2013)

Fabulous sprint from Kittel!! He's the strongest at the moment


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

Can't remember the last time I saw Cav get everything right and still get beaten for pure speed. Chapeau Kittel.


----------



## lukesdad (11 Jul 2013)

Yep Cav beaten fair and square there.


----------



## Shadow (11 Jul 2013)

Chapeau Kittel, indeed. He out-Cav's Cav.
Cav looks round at the line in bewilderment.


----------



## dan_bo (11 Jul 2013)

Right that's my Cav duvet cover in the bin.


----------



## Hip Priest (11 Jul 2013)

It looks like Cavendish has a real rival now.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

It'll be funny watching the final stage and not thinking the sprint on the Champs-Elysees is a foregone conclusion... almost forgotten what that's like.


----------



## dragon72 (11 Jul 2013)

Wow. 3 stage wins for Kittel. For me, he's been the star of this TdF.
Incredibly, even though he's the sprinter with the most wins, Kittel is only 4th in the points classification.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

More bad news for Sky - EBH busted his collarbone in that crash today.

Will Chris Froome even have any [fit] team-mates left by the time they reach the Alps?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (11 Jul 2013)

Very strong sprint from the German, nice one, good to see some proper competition at the sprints, I hope these lads all make it to Paris to make it an interesting day there.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (11 Jul 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> It looks like Cavendish has a real rival now.


 

And I thought OPQ did well today and as Smutchin says quite correctly, Cav was beaten on pure speed.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2013)

EBH out with a broken shoulder from the crash 2km from the finish...


----------



## Risex4 (11 Jul 2013)

Uh-oh. Has Cav been rumbled?


----------



## Chris Norton (11 Jul 2013)

I don't see losing EBH as a massive loss any more than the other Russian bloke, but it certainly would have been better to still have the whole team around Froome.

Cav could well be still suffering from the effects of the bronchitis when it really gets busy. 

I still think it's all teeing up to be one hell of a last week. I have my Thursday afternoon all set for the double ascent.


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> EBH out with a broken shoulder from the crash 2km from the finish...


He crashed twice today. It left me wondering about whether it would have happened if they hadn't switched tactics to leave only Stannard up front.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (11 Jul 2013)

EBH is defo a loss for Sky. Not like they are drafting in riders to replace those lost. Just means less protection for Froome. 

Huge kudos to Kittel. As Cav said, he was just better. No excuses!


----------



## ayceejay (11 Jul 2013)

I think Frome is like lone riders of the past and can do it alone, the question now though is whether a lone rider can outwit a team effort and if his team boss will allow him to.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2013)

Watched the TT stage live en-route, previous stage on the 4th cat climb. Was too knackered this morning so missed the start of the stage in Fougeres.

Just thought I'd mention it.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2013)

Perhaps it's just me but I've not been impressed with the OPQ train. They seem to come to the front, then disappear with 3k to go, usually leaving one man with Cav. 

Shimano boys are riding really well.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> I don't see losing EBH as a massive loss any more than the other Russian bloke, but it certainly would have been better to still have the whole team around Froome.


 
Kiriyenka (Belorussian in fact) is quite a hard man, capable of a lot of work - Froome's GC challenge would benefit more from Kiriyenka than maybe 2 or 3 others. What with Geraint Thomas also below par, Sky can definitely be vulnerable. 

But like others have said, Froome appears without weaknesses - he should be able to carry this one off.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (11 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> Perhaps it's just me but I've not been impressed with the OPQ train. They seem to come to the front, then disappear with 3k to go, usually leaving one man with Cav.
> 
> Shimano boys are riding really well.


 

I think that's part of the point though, today, they did have their act together and Cav was delivered perfectly and failed to win due the speed of Kittel. After the setback before the TT and a poor OPQ performance admittedly, which seemed so very absent from the front culminating in a Kittel - Griepel 1st and 2nd, today, under pressure they delivered. Just a shame that Cav didn't.

If anything perhaps Cav went too early but you have to respect Kittel who did well enough to get on his wheel and then overtake '...the fastest man on two wheels.'

What a shame for EBH and I tend to agree that this could be another blow for Froome.


----------



## Risex4 (11 Jul 2013)

The OPQS train has been a mess more or less, with the possible exceptions of Marsaille and today where I think it was Cav who got it wrong.

They've routinely got it wrong, got swamped and either come up too short or left Cav to do it himself (arguably the same thing). Compare QS's train performance to that of Argos or Lotto who are - crashes aside - dropping their sprinters off consistently in the best positions at the right times. You could get away with amateur hour 5 years ago. Now, you'll lose out 9 time out of 10.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (11 Jul 2013)

Kiriyenka was definitely an asset on the long climbs, drilling away at the front, so the pressure on the remaining riders will be greater, especially on the long Ventoux and double Alpe. Rivals will need to think long and hard about mounting a relentless attack on Froome now, I think there will be 'alliances'.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2013)

OPQS are clearly missing a killer leadout man. Steegmans is no mean sprinter in his own right, but he doesn't seem able to offer Cav the same level of physical protection that Renshaw has always provided in the past.


----------



## montage (11 Jul 2013)

Cav's jumps seem a little off speed as well, though it is pretty hard to tell


----------



## tigger (11 Jul 2013)

Might stick some money on Cav tomorrow. Probably one of the few days you'll get half decent odds on him. Never write him off. I don't think he'll bother with the intermediate sprint and hopefully he doesn't have to start his sprint quite so early this time.

Bad news for Sky with EBH out. That's 6.5 in the team now. Amazing as Froome is, I don't think he can fetch his own bottles, pace himself back after mechanicals, chase down all the attacks and still win this. Or can he?


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Might stick some money on Cav tomorrow. Probably one of the few days you'll get half decent odds on him. Never write him off. I don't think he'll bother with the intermediate sprint and hopefully he doesn't have to start his sprint quite so early this time.


Not a bad bet. He's very hard on his train if they get it wrong, even harder on himself when the train gets it right and he doesn't deliver. He will feel very much obligated to them tomorrow.



tigger said:


> Amazing as Froome is, I don't think he can fetch his own bottles, pace himself back after mechanicals, chase down all the attacks and still win this. Or can he?


Of course not, but with Stannard controlling the flatter sections, Kennaugh and Porte pacing up the lumpy bits....Lopez & G to fetch bottles etc, with a little luck he should make it to Paris?


----------



## mrbadexample (12 Jul 2013)

Yup, I think Cav made his move just a fraction too soon. Fair play to Kittel though, it would have taken absolute perfection to have beaten him.


----------



## mrbadexample (12 Jul 2013)

The thing I wanted most was for Cav to win and say: "Thanks to the person who threw urine at me yesterday, it gave me just the motivation and aggression I needed, without which I would never have won."

Oh well.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Jul 2013)

Kittel is on form, and he's on a roll. Cav just isn't right now. He can't win everything all the time.


----------



## The Couch (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> OPQS are clearly missing a killer leadout man. Steegmans is no mean sprinter in his own right, but he doesn't seem able to offer Cav the same level of physical protection that Renshaw has always provided in the past.


I don't think the problem is really so much Steegmans... In my opinion, they are missing someone to drop Steegmans off (or rather keep him in a protected position).
I have had already quite a few times the feeling that Steegmans (and Cav somewhere hidden behind his back) needed to catch up an extra 20-30m to get back to the frontpositions... Steegmans has (most times) managed to succeed in bringing Cav forward, so in those instances I don't see what more he could have done... however, that sudden burst of energy to get to the front is most likely choking Cav's legs a bit.

So for me it's Trentin (and/or the guy before him), who is/are more to blame

EDIT: Of course, if you have Renshaw, you can put Steegmans one position up and probably have a better train


----------



## yello (12 Jul 2013)

Risex4 said:


> Uh-oh. Has Cav been rumbled?


 
No, just beaten.

There's no secret to what Cavendish does. He's just very good at it and usually the best. Not so yesterday and he was beaten by a far stronger sprinter in top form. Personally, I don't think Cavendish is 100% either physically or mentally. The Giro will have tired him, he's been ill, and the stuff that's happened in the last few days is probably playing with his head. He'll be back, and probably in tears!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> So for me it's Trentin (and/or the guy before him), who is/are more to blame



Yeah, ok, I'll go along with that. Boonen would have been useful for this. 

Is it my imagination or have we not seen much this year of Tony Martin dragging the peloton along at ferocious pace for most of the last 10km? Maybe his injuries are hampering him. It's allowing too many other teams to get in on the act - though, to be fair, Argos are looking very strong and well organised, so maybe it's just that they've got the better team right now. 



> EDIT: Of course, if you have Renshaw, you can put Steegmans one position up and probably have a better train



You know who he really needs to bring back as his lead out man? Andre Greipel.


----------



## Hip Priest (12 Jul 2013)

The key question is whether Cav is putting out less power / going slower than normal. If this is the case, then it just an issue of form & fitness (he's been ill) and can be overcome. However, if Cav is in top form and Kittel is simply beating him, then it's a different matter.

I suspect the former.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You know who he really needs to bring back as his lead out man? Andre Greipel.


or Goss! Whatever happened to that bloke? He's not doing much else these days is he?


----------



## yello (12 Jul 2013)

One shouldn't ignore Kittel in the search for why, it's not just about Cavendish maybe lacking form. Kittel is in top form and is clearly a man to watch... despite his bouf and specs reminding me of someone else


----------



## jifdave (12 Jul 2013)

got back last night at 11pm after 3 days at the tour.

what an experience, i can't believe how easy it all was, day 1 we just drove towards st malo, we saw a sign for free bus and it was that easy, parked up and caught the bus right into town. walked to about the 1km banner as the finish line was crowded. 

favourite pic of day 1






Day two we had 35 mile ride around town then to the corner just after the 3k banner. got some great pics


















day 3 we went to the start again just drove towards the town, this time pulled up in a side street and walked about half a mile and we were there.





all in all it was ridiculously easy to find and watch the event. brilliant few days


----------



## montage (12 Jul 2013)

First time Cav's lead out has missed Eisel in as while as well - someone who is well regarded as a fantastic lead out captain


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2013)

Kittel gets a lot of respect from me for his strongly worded, blunt anti-doping pronouncements. He doesn't mince his words when someone is caught.


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

Well the bookies are still making Cav the favourite for today, best odds I could get were 2-1. So not worth the punt I think.

Still, if anyone is willing to offer me 4-1 I have one £10 bet I'd happily make


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jul 2013)

Anyone see the 2 hour documentary on cav last night? Probably been on before but it's the first somewhere in the IK time I've seen it.

I thought he lived in Italy now? His house seemed to be in the UK. To be fair I'm sure he has a few pads.

Hope he is paying his fair share of taxes.


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jul 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> The key question is whether Cav is putting out less power / going slower than normal. If this is the case, then it just an issue of form & fitness (he's been ill) and can be overcome. However, if Cav is in top form and Kittel is simply beating him, then it's a different matter.
> 
> I suspect the former.


 

Cue the documentary last night when he said it's pointless trying to measure his power. They have tried to replicate it (under synthetic conditions) and failed. His power is driver from within (desire to win).


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jul 2013)

Suspect he is domiciled in the IoM


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Kicked off today: Side winds, echelons, splits in the peloton. Kittel's been isolated behind the main bunch, which is chasing the breakaway down furiously. 

Love stages like this.


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2013)

Argos stuffed


----------



## The Couch (12 Jul 2013)

Why is the guy on Eurosport talking like a French guy speaking English when he was mimicking an Italian reporter describing Coppi finishing first on Alpe d'Huez?

EDIT: I guess needing to fill all those hours talking makes you say some weird stuff sometimes


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Now Valverde's punctured!

If he can't get back on OPQS won't be on their own up front for long.


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Thinking about it, the GC contenders may be happier keeping Movistar onside for now.


----------



## jifdave (12 Jul 2013)

Nope belkin pushing on


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2013)

Wowsers !


----------



## Rob3rt (12 Jul 2013)

I thought they would let him get back on tbh.


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

Who is the eurocar pr0n star interloper with the very gay tache ? not a good look


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> The key question is whether Cav is putting out less power / going slower than normal. If this is the case, then it just an issue of form & fitness (he's been ill) and can be overcome. However, if Cav is in top form and Kittel is simply beating him, then it's a different matter.
> 
> *I suspect the former*.


 
Possibly, despite what Cav said post race, because Sagan was able to cut the gap to the line as well.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

Was that Cav's 3rd 2nd in a row?


----------



## The Couch (12 Jul 2013)

Havoc6 said:


> Who is the eurocar pr0n star interloper with the very gay tache ? not a good look


Do you mean Cousin?
http://www.sporza.be/polopoly_fs/1....g_gen/derivatives/landscape670/1750483962.jpg


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Archie said:


> Now Valverde's punctured!
> 
> If he can't get back on OPQS won't be on their own up front for long.


 
I've just switched the coverage on and I wondered why Belkin were hammering so hard on the front. Flippin' aces!

The pace looks ferocious.


----------



## The Couch (12 Jul 2013)

It seems now that Valverde might be able to get back (first) without Kittel


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

The gap to the Valverde group has grown to over a minute now according to the official Tour website. Yikes!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Saxo notable by their absence from the front of the peloton. Maybe Contador wants Valverde to get back so he can use him as an ally against Froome in the mountains?


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Porte has missed the split too!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

The gap is nearly a minute and a half now. Crikey.


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Do you mean Cousin?
> http://www.sporza.be/polopoly_fs/1....g_gen/derivatives/landscape670/1750483962.jpg


Yep that's shocker


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

I have watched le tour for over 30 years I can't remember a flat stage like this before , amazing work and tactics


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2013)

Valverde 2mins down with 40km to go - that can balloon out by the end. 4 mins ? It is a hard slog for Movistar to limit it any further.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

Is Porte saving his legs for the mountains or is he still off the pace? Just a feeling that Froome is comfortable and stood him down.

EDIT: Oh well, if he was comfortable, he isn't now!


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

Fme mad day


----------



## VamP (12 Jul 2013)

What a freebie for Froome!

For no extra effort, he gets rid of Valverde and the threat of Movistar working with Belkin and Saxo to trip him up in the mountains.

Edit: Spoke too soon!!!


----------



## jifdave (12 Jul 2013)

Ooooh saxo push, froome gapped


----------



## Hip Priest (12 Jul 2013)

Just tuned in.

This seems far more exciting than I was expecting. What's the deal?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> What a freebie for Froome!
> 
> For no extra effort, he gets rid of Valverde and the threat of Movistar working with Belkin and Saxo to trip him up in the mountains.
> 
> Edit: Spoke too soon!!!


Yup, that got me too!


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Saxo \Tinkoff off the front. Froome has to chase! Jeez!


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2013)

This was always the danger....

I felt Froome was safer in the mountains


----------



## jifdave (12 Jul 2013)

3.30 for valverde


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Saxo notable by their absence from the front of the peloton.


 
Spoke slightly too soon there!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> What a freebie for Froome!
> 
> For no extra effort, he gets rid of Valverde and the threat of Movistar working with Belkin and Saxo to trip him up in the mountains.
> 
> Edit: Spoke too soon!!!


 

Yeah, it is Cav who is getting a free ride from Saxo at the moment.


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

In other news, Quintana is the new Movistar team leader.


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

Hmm... not sure if there is that much time for Saxo Bertie to gain here compared to the effort put in. Looks like Cav and Sagan made it into the move with them. No response or panic from Sky. Not sure if this will stay away anyway??


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

Did anyone catch Cav saying ''.....behind'' and then hear the ITV4 commentator say ''That's Cav talking in French to Chavanel, saying 'take a look behind'?'' So, if ''behind'' is French now, the commentator's talking out of his derrière...


----------



## VamP (12 Jul 2013)

How the effin eff did Saxo manage to get 5 riders in that break! Genius.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

I am surprised how disinterested Froome/Sky appears in the chase, given Saxo has everything to fight for and with 6 riders up there.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

This is astonishing. Don't they know it's supposed to be a transition stage?


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

3 Sky plus Froome on the front now, gap dropped back a little to 37 sec


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Yeah, it is Cav who is getting a free ride from Saxo at the moment.


 
Cav and Sagan...


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

Lotto joined in on the front of Froome's group now. Interesting times!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Greipel missing the gap could be good news for Froome - Lotto look like they want to close it down.


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

Saxo Bank giving it to Sky and Movistar


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Can Cavendish hold on during the climb? It's not big I know, but Saxo won't be hanging about.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Have to say, chapeau to the Belkin triumvirate of Mollema, Ten Dam and Gesink - they've kept themselves out of trouble all the way since day one.


----------



## triangles (12 Jul 2013)

7 mins to Valverde!

Mollema for a podium place then?


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Over 7 minutes to Valverde now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

And Bertie group 50 secs ahead now!


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2013)

What a fantastic stage! Slightly surprised Froome hasn't gone to the front himself yet.


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> What a fantastic stage! Slightly surprised Froome hasn't gone to the front himself yet.


 
He's got the buffer I suppose and needs to keep his powder dry for Sunday. I predict a 1.30 loss to Contador by the end of stage now


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

Sky team look spent. Will they recover for the Alps?


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

What a fab stage!


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2013)

Cav from Sagan !

Edit : 1 min 8 to Froome


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Cav made mincemeat out of Sagan there! Fantastic to see Mollema contesting the sprint too.

Massive result for Contador, but not, I think, a total disaster for Froome - he still has a good chunk of time in hand.


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2013)

Cav will be in red tomorrow, lads!


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

Froome lead down to 2.28 Mollema and 2.35 Contador?


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2013)

Well that was bloody brilliant.


----------



## mrbadexample (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Cav made mincemeat out of Sagan there! Fantastic to see Mollema contesting the sprint too.


 

That was delightful. A 1-2-3 for my fantasy team. 

Best day of racing I've seen for ages.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

Who was the rider in green that led Cavendish out so well? Oh!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I felt the real reason Movistar didn't try to really put the hurt on Froome on Sunday is because Valverde didn't have the legs.


 
Turns out he doesn't have the wheels either. 

#schadenfreude #puerto


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

"@irishpeloton: Cavendish now has won multiple stages of six Tours de France in a row. Only other rider to have done this is Nicolas Frantz."

Take a second to reflect on that.

Utterly astonishing.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

"@inrng: Mark Cavendish has 25 stage wins in the Tour, equal with André Leducq. Only bettered by Bernard Hinault (28) and Eddy Merckx (*34*)"


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

Great stage. Opens the GC up again somewhat prematurely. I'm worried for Froome given the apparent collapse of his team. In twitter speak... #alliesrequired!


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

Froome mad a poor decision not to jump when Movistar made the move , Sky were poor today all round tactically nieve


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

What a great stage - we will get the bands out to celebrate this later this afternoon in Belfast


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

mrbadexample said:


> That was delightful. A 1-2-3 for my fantasy team.
> 
> Best day of racing I've seen for ages.


 
I don't have Sagan, but I do have Terpstra - three of the top five isn't too bad.


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

The Sly team have lost a lot of leaders/experience from last year's team. It is beginning to have an obvious impact


----------



## iLB (12 Jul 2013)

Memories of 2009! Contador on the right side of the split this time.

Cavendish ecstatic in the post race interview.

.....E
...M C
.....A H
.......D E
.........N L
...........E O
.............S N
................S


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2013)

Did any of you lot catch Berto shouting "Vamos! Vamos!" about 3ks from the finish? 

Bloody hell - what a stage - could do with a drink now......


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

Interesting that many of the famous 2009 htc echelon antagonists were instrumental today: Mick Rogers for Saxo, and of course Holm/Cav/etc. for OPQS. Perhaps Sky would have turned out better with Eisel, especially given Froome just said the stage looked simple on paper...


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2013)

Was that Belking gaining revenge over something on Moviestar because putting the pedal down on a GC rider with a mechanical is an unwritten rule broken.

Froome was just the wrong side of that split then and suddenly Sky are looking really, really vulnerable and though I don't support Dirty Bertie, he is an excellent reader of a race and can always spring a surprise: Brilliant stage.


----------



## VamP (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I don't have Sagan, but I do have Terpstra - three of the top five isn't too bad.


 
I've got 1237 awesome day for my fantasy team 

Awesome stage - shame I missed most of it!


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

Who is the road captain on the Sky team?


----------



## Havoc6 (12 Jul 2013)

avsd said:


> Who is the road captain on the Sky team?


Wiggo


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2013)

avsd said:


> Who is the road captain on the Sky team?


 

Whoever it is, it seemed he was sitting in the Sky bus on the other side of Froome's radio...


----------



## iLB (12 Jul 2013)

avsd said:


> Who is the road captain on the Sky team?


 

I think Thomas is meant to be, and he has limited road experience compared to Eisel last year.

I think Sir Brad might have a little chuckle when he is done training in Mallorca today. He would have been good in that.


----------



## tigger (12 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> could do with a drink now......


 
Its drinking weather!


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

I thought it was Kiryienka.

Wiggins would have been extremely useful to the team today.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 Jul 2013)

Great stage. I had to watch the last 60km in silence (it was on the tv in the gym offshore here, while I was on the treadmill) so missed the commentary, but just watching that last break was fantastic. Very enjoyable to see proper racing with some tactics and little on road agreements etc going off, and a fine win for Cavendish. Need to go watch it again, with sound this time.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I thought it was Kiryienka.
> 
> Wiggins would have been extremely useful to the team today.


He would have loved to be sat on the front with 30km to go, chasing for 15km before sitting up to recuperate and do the same tomorrow ;-)

Edit:
The way I see it is Saxo & Belkin will be knackered tomorrow and unlikely to push it again for a couple of days.
Ventoux will allow Froome to excel and possibly blow away the other GC candidates again.

Maybe Saxo have been clever in keeping their powder dry - Contador is indeed something of a genius - but Froome has many chances to hurt the rest this coming week.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 Jul 2013)

That really was a master stroke in strategic racing by Saxo, taking Mollema, Cavendish, Chavanel and Sagan along was a perfect move, a little incentive for everyone. Turned a meh stage into one othe more entertaining ones so far.


----------



## avsd (12 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I think Thomas is meant to be, and he has limited road experience compared to Eisel last year. .


 
And Mike Rodgers


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2013)

I'm not sure if Froome had the sprint to go with Cav after the Saxo break. Even Cav says he almost didn't make it and he can put the hammer down for a short time.


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## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

Mr Nibbles going against the tide of popular opinion, I suspect:

@VincenzoNibali:
L'azione al #TdF2013 di oggi nei confronti di @alejanvalverde è una cosa che non piace a nessuno!! La ruota gira per tutti prima o poi.
https://twitter.com/VincenzoNibali/status/355713756908621824


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## jifdave (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Mr Nibbles going against the tide of popular opinion, I suspect:
> 
> @VincenzoNibali:
> L'azione al #TdF2013 di oggi nei confronti di @alejanvalverde è una cosa che non piace a nessuno!! La ruota gira per tutti prima o poi.
> https://twitter.com/VincenzoNibali/status/355713756908621824


 
VincenzoNibali: The action at # TdF2013 today against @ alejanvalverde is one thing that no one likes it! The wheel turns for everyone sooner or later.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

What was that about the wheel coming round, Mr Nibbles?

@mrconde:
There is your answer to why Belkin are in front.. #tdf RT @Nancy_Arreola Tour de Swiss 2011 movistar went full gas when Bauke had a flat


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> What was that about the wheel coming round, Mr Nibbles?
> 
> @mrconde:
> There is your answer to why Belkin are in front.. #tdf RT @Nancy_Arreola Tour de Swiss 2011 movistar went full gas when Bauke had a flat


Ah, Bauke Mollema, I knew it happened but couldn't remember who or what stage.


----------



## Basil.B (12 Jul 2013)

What a cracker! 
Going to be an exciting final week.


----------



## 400bhp (12 Jul 2013)

Great stage - Sky's wheels have come off.

However...Belkin and Saxo could arguably fight amongst themselves for 2nd and 3rd, so perhaps leave froomster alone...long shot...


----------



## lukesdad (12 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> He would have loved to be sat on the front with 30km to go, chasing for 15km before sitting up to recuperate and do the same tomorrow ;-)
> 
> Edit:
> The way I see it is Saxo & Belkin will be knackered tomorrow and unlikely to push it again for a couple of days.
> ...


 
220ks on that stage before they hit ventoux mind (and the winds blow)


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2013)

This might interest a few: I just bumped into a petition, signed by Marianne Vos and Emma Pooley, addressed to Christian Prudhomme, demanding the right for female teams to ride the TdF. I reckon it's doable so I signed it. https://www.change.org/petitions/as...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition


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## arghill (12 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Turned a meh stage into one othe more entertaining ones so far.


 
Very much. Flat stages are so often formulaic with a breakaway of hopefuls being hung out the front for a 100km then reeled in on demand as it suits the Peleton come the end.

Todays race was so much more exciting. Clever riding by a lot of people on Cavs and Contadors squads.

Hats of to Geirant for doing his best through injury trying to limit the losses.

Might be just because it is fresher in my mind, but this years tour has already beaten last years for entertainment value to me.


----------



## NickM (12 Jul 2013)

avsd said:


> Sky team look spent. Will they recover for the Alps?


Froome has used them up in what seems to me a somewhat profligate manner. And they have had more than their share of bad luck.

Other contenders for the overall have not just been luckier, but have spent their teams' resources more wisely. This is not to say that Froome cannot win; just that he (and the Sky management) do not seem to be going about it in the cleverest way...


----------



## Monsieur Remings (12 Jul 2013)

User said:


> a much as I've enjoyed today, can't quite get my head around what saxo tinkoff or belkin next move will be...2.30 minutes is still a lot of time to make up on froome....
> not sure if anyone else agrees but to me team Sky look spend and I felt today when Sky were on the front, made no dent and fell away too quickly ...
> I think froome will have to go old school and take care of himself from now on....
> 
> looking at the classifications and surmising that Belkin and Saxo-Tinkoff are still chasing yellow, I'd be interested if anyone has any ideas of what they think the next week holds and how these 2 teams could get yellow...


 

I can't help thinking that like today, those teams will be as opportunistic as they can be and with greater depth in numbers it looks a frightening scenario for Froome with, I'd say ONLY 2.30 minutes.

Anything can happen in the Alps and I reckon this year, it will. And like Saxo-Tinkoff who only really showed their true ability today, there's the Katusha boys.


----------



## laurence (12 Jul 2013)

i've just watched the eurosport highlights, basically the rerunning of most of the stage, as i only caught the end live. blimey...

i say again... BLIMEY!!!! it was like a one day classic.

even Kelly was getting excited as he spoke. great to see OPQS got the combativity prize as a team, the first time in Tour history, i believe.

i think next week will be bonkers, no team has control of the race... you never know, Euskaltel might do something!


----------



## beastie (12 Jul 2013)

I think for Froome the best tactic in the alps may just be to attack. La course en tete as it were. He is probably gonna have to chase long and hard otherwise. He might as well do his hard riding in the front groups.


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2013)

Wow. Awesome stage, shame my Virgin box failed to record the highlights show on itv4, so forced to watch Eurosport with no post-race interviews. Bet Cav was ecstatic!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (12 Jul 2013)

Sh*t!! That was bike racing!! 

Loving this Tour.


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2013)

Anyone else catch the Rogers interview on ES?
Said the Saxo Tinkoff break was his call (not pre-planned).... and what a call.
He's a big loss for Sky.

And Contador will be able to thank him for the podium place at the end..


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2013)

What's the betting for tomorrow?
Formulaic, let the breakaway have their fun for once?
Or something more dramatic?

Bugger, I shall be out teaching kids how to wheelie all afternoon.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

NickM said:


> Other contenders for the overall have not just been luckier, but have spent their teams' resources more wisely.



Belkin have very much made their own luck with some extremely canny riding thus far. I do so hope they can keep it up - I'd love to see Mollema on the podium and Ten Dam in a high GC placing. Even Gesink is looking like a "lucky" rider at the moment, and he's normally a magnet for misfortune.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (12 Jul 2013)

And I'm glad that Valverde is now of secondary importance to Movistar, behind Quintana Roo who I really want to do well in this tour.

(I was going to say last night, but tonight seems as apt to say as ever how great that on this forum, there are so many fans of cycling, more concerned with a good bike race, competitive spirit and the like than anything to do with national pride per se. May the best rider win and all that...)


----------



## Monsieur Remings (12 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> Anyone else catch the Rogers interview on ES?
> Said the Saxo Tinkoff break was his call (not pre-planned).... and what a call.
> He's a big loss for Sky.
> 
> And Contador will be able to thank him for the podium place at the end..


 

Yep, well said that man, a big big loss.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> What's the betting for tomorrow?
> Formulaic, let the breakaway have their fun for once?
> Or something more dramatic?



Looks made for Sagan, doesn't it? He'll be desperate for another stage win too, after several near misses. So Cannondale will surely be trying to control the race. 

I imagine there will be a breakaway though, and I bet any money that Johnny Hoogerland will be involved. One of the Garmins too - Millar or Navardauskas, perhaps? Question will be whether or not the break can stay away. I'm saying no.


----------



## Slaav (12 Jul 2013)

So what on Earth has happened to Sky? COmpare last year with this and they are simply different standard. Will the CLinic point to the fact they are certain dopers now? Still? Or just point at Froome?

Or are the others now on the juice?

Personally, I think the vast majority are now clean. I would worry more about Dirty Bertie and his improvement than the Sky boys!!!

But the drop off in Sky's team work and perfomance is very worrying? Should DB have picked Henao and Uran for the TdF regardless of what Uran does next season? Has DB played a duff card big time? looking like it to me


----------



## Strathlubnaig (13 Jul 2013)

I say let the old lads get away for a stage win... Millar and Voigt !


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (13 Jul 2013)

You would have to assume Tommy V would want a piece of tomorrows breakaway action! 
​


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> But the drop off in Sky's team work and perfomance is very worrying? Should DB have picked Henao and Uran for the TdF regardless of what Uran does next season? Has DB played a duff card big time? looking like it to me


 
No, it's just bad luck on the whole. Crashes in the early stages and one hot day. But they do seem to lack a true road captain. Henao and Uran were always slated for the Giro and Vuelta.

This stage was a masterclass in how to ride in cross-winds by OPQS, Saxo and Belkin. Both Cavendish and Contador showed their GT experience over their rivals, Kittel and Froome. I didn't expect this stage to be this interesting, which all makes this Tour the most exciting for a while.


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2013)

The teammate froome needed was Wiggo !


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2013)

Movistar will now be anything but complacent - Quintana has a real chance to move up the rankings in the mountains. Instead of being a potential procession, we are now in a situation in which Froome is vulnerable and anything could happen.


----------



## lukesdad (13 Jul 2013)

Hoogerland and Tommy V me to light it up today me reckons at least I hope so.


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> So what on Earth has happened to Sky?


They look completely worn out don't they? Weren't there complaints that the winter training programme was fine for the likes of Brad and Froome, but was far too hard for the rest of them, and that they were knackered even before the season started? Even after a fairly ordinary stint up front, they're straight off the back, finished for the day. They just seem to be burnt out. Not good that.


----------



## jdtate101 (13 Jul 2013)

The tour just got really interesting.....can't wait to see what happens on Ventoux and the Alps now. It's shaping up to be a real drama fest, much better viewing than last yr.

Even if Chris doesn't win (and I still think he will) he can be proud of what he's done so far. I'm not sure it's a case of SKY being over tired, just inexperienced at crosswind riding, getting caught out, and not having the firepower to close. I think Froome was sensible to not try and close to Saxo on his own. Like Cav said, if you don't spot it in 5secs, you've missed it, and it's next to impossible to close without burning yourself, and Chris needs that energy for the mountains. I think he made a calculated risk in sitting up and letting the break go, but he had enough time in the bank to have some margin of doubt. We've seen Contador's weakness in the mountains already, yet to see Mollema go for it, so for me the biggest threat is Quintana. Now Vallverde is out, Movistar should throw their weight behind the Columbian, and they have a formidable climbing force.


----------



## Herzog (13 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Hoogerland and Tommy V me to light it up today me reckons at least I hope so.


 

Yep, it'll be TV-time today! Gurning galore...


----------



## jifdave (13 Jul 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/12/tour-de-france-2013-pain

Good read about the last week of tour


----------



## Slaav (13 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> They look completely worn out don't they? Weren't there complaints that the winter training programme was fine for the likes of Brad and Froome, but was far too hard for the rest of them, and that they were knackered even before the season started? Even after a fairly ordinary stint up front, they're straight off the back, finished for the day. They just seem to be burnt out. Not good that.


 
I think I read that also. They looked OK earlier in the season though?

And Richie Porte? Wasn't he meant to be the Super D this year with a small eye on leading the team in a GT in the near future? Certainly doesn't seem to have raised his star by much in his current role.... Or are Sky conserving energy for wk 3 in light of their awful luck and already having lost two members? ANd did anyone read an explanation for Kiryienka? (Spelling)

Personally I am disappointed to see Sky underperform as I genuinely thought they would repeat or at least compete with last year's showing.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> I think I read that also. They looked OK earlier in the season though?
> 
> And Richie Porte? Wasn't he meant to be the Super D this year with a small eye on leading the team in a GT in the near future? Certainly doesn't seem to have raised his star by much in his current role.... Or are Sky conserving energy for wk 3 in light of their awful luck and already having lost two members? ANd did anyone read an explanation for Kiryienka? (Spelling)
> 
> Personally I am disappointed to see Sky underperform as I genuinely thought they would repeat or at least compete with last year's showing.


I've been wondering whether Richie Porte is deliberately keeping out of sight and not showing what his current form is. He's gone from hero to zero far too quickly, and he should have fully recovered from his exploits earlier in the week. Instead, all eyes are off him.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> You would have to assume Tommy V would want a piece of tomorrows breakaway action!



He was notable for his total lack of effort yesterday. Clearly saving himself for today.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2013)

Just seen Froome interviewed on ES. He seems quite philosophical about what happened yesterday, reckons Contador will have used up an awful lot of energy for that one minute gain. Had a bit of a glint in his eye when he said it too, I thought - have a feeling he might be planning to put the hammer on Contador tomorrow. 

Quintana is off the leash now too - he'll be looking to make inroads in the GC tomorrow too. It'll be interesting to see if Kwiatkowski can stay in touch in the white jersey comp. 

Bets for stage winner tomorrow? Question is whether it'll be someone like Purito or Nieve aiming to salvage their Tour with a big stage win, or will one of the GC boys go for it - Froome, Contador or Quintana?


----------



## Herzog (13 Jul 2013)

Rolland not made the break today, thought he would be up for mopping up the points...


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2013)

Anyway, back to today's stage - Millar and Voigt in the break, unsurprisingly. 

Also Tejay and Julien Simon, both of whom I half-expected to be there. 

Also Talansky, Albasini, Vichot, Bak, Bakelants, Burghardt, Rojas, Kadri, Brutt... That's a very strong group. Interesting. 

No Hoogerland though. That's another virtual bet lost! 

No TV either!


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2013)

Just now, one of the motorbike journalists managed to get alongside of a TeamSky car and started chatting to Nicolas Portal about Froome and yesterday's stage etc, and Brailsford told Portal to stop talking. This kind of thing really doesn't endear Sky to the public over here.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (13 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Just now, one of the motorbike journalists managed to get alongside of a TeamSky car and started chatting to Nicolas Portal about Froome and yesterday's stage etc, and Brailsford told Portal to stop talking. This kind of thing really doesn't endear Sky to the public over here.


I kind of got the feeling that Sky were not popular in Europe. In fact they don't seem to popular in the peloton either, imo.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (13 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I've been wondering whether Richie Porte is deliberately keeping out of sight and not showing what his current form is. He's gone from hero to zero far too quickly, and he should have fully recovered from his exploits earlier in the week. Instead, all eyes are off him.


I don't think there are any riddles or hidden secrets here. He was simply found out after a huge effort on the first real day of climbing. 2nd place on GC would have been high on Sky's and Porte's TDF agenda - whilst it was still possible. He has been quiet since as he has nothing to fight for. His main focus has to be to look after Froome in the mountains. You could argue that, as he doesn't have to concern himself with his own GC standing, he will give 120% to helping Froome dawg put more time into his rivals.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I don't think there are any riddles or hidden secrets here. He was simply found out after a huge effort on the first real day of climbing.



Given that he'd already put in a big effort to help launch Froome last Saturday, it seems (with hindsight) that he was a bit reckless to then go haring after him like an excitable puppy. He didn't need to do that, and he paid the price for it in a big way on Sunday. It's fine doing that in the Criterium International when you can rest the next day, but not at the end of week one of a three week tour.

Edit: they're talking about Porte on ES now and Kelly is basically saying he peaked too early this season.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2013)

Just got in and there's no sign of Voelkler in the breakaway or chasers?!


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2013)

No, but Hoogerland is making a belated bid to join the escape (along with Cunego) so I think I can at least reclaim my stake on that one.


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> They look completely worn out don't they? Weren't there complaints that the winter training programme was fine for the likes of Brad and Froome, but was far too hard for the rest of them, and that they were knackered even before the season started? Even after a fairly ordinary stint up front, they're straight off the back, finished for the day. They just seem to be burnt out. Not good that.


Makes sense because all of them were going better at the start of the season or seemed to be. It could well be that something has gone wrong with the training sessions. Look at JTL, what the hell has happened to him this season.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (13 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Just got in and there's no sign of Voelkler in the breakaway or chasers?!


*Sacre Bleu!!! *


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (13 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> they're talking about Porte on ES now and Kelly is basically saying he peaked too early this season


 
Very possibly. Though i do think what you said about Porte chasing after Froome on Ax Trois being unnecessary and a little foolhardy. He has paid a hefty price. In his defence he could never have seen the following stage's antics coming. With hindsight i am positive he would have acted differently. 
On the other hand Contador is riding into his peak (self claimed) so hopefully we will see the best of him where it will really count. He also has an amazing eye for opportunities and has real leadership experience. I hope, from a fans perspective, that he becomes the unpredictable explosive rider he was at last years Vuelta and of seasons past.


----------



## rich p (13 Jul 2013)

I don't understand why Porte was busting a gut on the ITT to finish 3rd when he should have been sandbagging and conserving energy to support Froome tomorrow. Even an unlikely stage win would have been fairly pointless in Sky's longer term cause


----------



## Hip Priest (13 Jul 2013)

Stuck a fiver on Gerrans this morning. Come on lad, close that 7 minute gap!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (13 Jul 2013)

Are they gonna reel this guy in?


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2013)

I think the Sojasun guy will make it now - he has 15 secs with 4 km to go

edit - spoke too soon - BMC guy making the gap


----------



## threebikesmcginty (13 Jul 2013)

Need a bit of teamwork if they're going to do anything, doesn't look like it.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (13 Jul 2013)

Ooo!


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2013)

Trentin takes it from almost nowhere - OPQS take 2 in a row


----------



## tug benson (13 Jul 2013)

Caught the last 20k there, what a finish


----------



## rich p (13 Jul 2013)

OPQS can go home happy whatever happens from now on


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2013)

That was a very pootly peloton at the finish....


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2013)

Gutted for Simon - it's his first Tour so a win would've been fantastic. I guess he went a bit too early. Oh well......


----------



## Zofo (13 Jul 2013)

Lets hope that Bertie has a good crack at Froome tomorrow on Ventoux, should be a great stage.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (13 Jul 2013)

Thanks to that breakaway bunch for liveniing up the stage there. Too bad for Talansky. Highlights of the stage included Millar giving the camera guy the "I'm all done" sign.
addendum....just realised Talansky probably benefited the most from the day, leaping up 5 places in the GC.


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2013)

I'll tell you what, no matter what you nobbers say to try to convince me otherwise, that Orica bus getting stuck has ruined this Tour...


----------



## TVC (13 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Just got in and there's no sign of Voelkler in the breakaway or chasers?!


 

Just wait until tomorrow - Bastille Day, Ventoux. You should see plenty of young Tommy, knees out, head bobbing


----------



## Monsieur Remings (13 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I think the Sojasun guy will make it now - he has 15 secs with 4 km to go
> 
> edit - spoke too soon - BMC guy making the gap


 

Gutted that he didn't. He, no doubt, will be inconsolable.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (13 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Just seen Froome interviewed on ES. He seems quite philosophical about what happened yesterday, reckons Contador will have used up an awful lot of energy for that one minute gain. Had a bit of a glint in his eye when he said it too, I thought - have a feeling he might be planning to put the hammer on Contador tomorrow.
> 
> Quintana is off the leash now too - he'll be looking to make inroads in the GC tomorrow too. It'll be interesting to see if Kwiatkowski can stay in touch in the white jersey comp.
> 
> Bets for stage winner tomorrow? Question is whether it'll be someone like Purito or Nieve aiming to salvage their Tour with a big stage win, or will one of the GC boys go for it - Froome, Contador or Quintana?


 

I had Purito down to win tomorrow so I'll stick with that as Katusha have not really shown their hand yet.

But Quintana Roo is definitely going to do some damage before the tour is out and with the full support of the team, who knows.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (13 Jul 2013)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> Just wait until tomorrow - Bastille Day, Ventoux. You should see plenty of young Tommy, knees out, head bobbing


 

Not sure he's on the same form as last year and I'd be surprised if Europcar (Rolland) keep hold of the polkadot to be honest.


----------



## TVC (13 Jul 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Not sure he's on the same form as last year and I'd be surprised if Europcar (Rolland) keep hold of the polkadot to be honest.


Perhaps not, but he's odds on to give it a crack.


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2013)

Froome seems to be a lot more relaxed when being interviewed than he was. 

FROOMEDAWG!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Monsieur Remings (13 Jul 2013)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> Perhaps not, but he's odds on to give it a crack.


 

And why not. A mountain stage victory for Tommy doesn't endanger Rolland's KOM position. It could very well favour it, taking vital points from the mouths of other opponents - Quintana Roo for example. I hope the soigneurs have been busy working that tongue and I expect a gurnering performance on Bastille Day to equal no other.


----------



## rich p (13 Jul 2013)

Noodley's got more chance of winning tomorrow than Voeckler


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Froome seems to be a lot more relaxed when being interviewed than he was.
> 
> FROOMEDAWG!!!!!!!!!


Odd, I thought that he's getting flatter and flatter. But that may be down to morning after interviews, I'm not sure. At least tomorrow's stage is not going to get flatter and flatter....


----------



## lukesdad (14 Jul 2013)

JRo and Moreno will target the Alpe I reckon. Ventoux is made for Froome, I think sky will put the hammer down into it.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Noodley's got more chance of winning tomorrow than Voeckler


I've just had a horrible fear that Smutchin will have a virtual tenner on Noodley for today's stage


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Apropos of nowt, here's a picture of Tommy Simpson's memorial I took a few years ago, without getting off the bike..


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Ventoux is made for Froome, I think sky will put the hammer down into it.



I agree. But Quintana to nick the stage win with Froome second.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I've just had a horrible fear that Smutchin will have a virtual tenner on Noodley for today's stage



I'm sorely tempted by the odds, I'll admit.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

is everybody ready?


----------



## perplexed (14 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> is everybody ready?


 
I've just nearly barfed my breakfast looking at that...


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

I showed my son the stage profile - which makes it look rolling for 200km then vertical for the finale - and there was a resounding thunk as his jaw hit the floor. 

There was another thunk when I then explained the climb to him in terms of "like going up [nearby hill x] for a distance from here to [nearby town y]".

And he thinks rugby is a tough sport!


----------



## lukesdad (14 Jul 2013)

Whats a matter with you, the blue bits fine


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

I'm not sure I could climb the blue bit :-(


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Whats a matter with you, the blue bits fine


Mind you, if you run off the road that could be almost 2km of free fall. Good job it's a straight road....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jul 2013)

Would be quite amusing if there were attacks from the off in an attempt to unsettle the big names. Doubt that will happen though. I imagine one breakaway will be allowed to go, these guys will be of no GC threat obviously.
If the break is caught then my guess is it will be Froome who will win the stage. Quintana will give it a go though i am sure.

I want nothing more though than to see Berti keeping up with the best and, the big man willing, attacking anyone who dares even bat an eyelid at him!! I fear though that he will be found out to be lacking form, again.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

"@inrng: Sojasun's Julien El Fares has one of the most appropriate cycling names since Marco Velo retired. El Fares is arabic for 'The Rider'"


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

Hesjedal has a pretty appropriate handle too.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Apropos of nowt, here's a picture of Tommy Simpson's memorial I took a few years ago, without getting off the bike..


 
Was that when you were touring in the area, stopped off at a bar and a comely young maiden made a pass at you? One of the many times that something to do with you, a bar, and a comely maiden happened? You'll have made excuses and left no doubt, but worth recalling nonetheless...


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Hesjedal has a pretty appropriate handle too.


 
Arabic for "one grand tour victory fluke"?


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

Fast stage so far today, average for first hour around 50kph. 

Rolland in a counter attack, very early for him to making a move - next points are in 70km or so...


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

2 FDJ riders in the break, Roy and Fedrigo, so it could be a French win today...


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'm sorely tempted by the odds, I'll admit.


Yeah, well, Noodley is odd, so I can see why.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Apropos of nowt, here's a picture of Tommy Simpson's memorial I took a few years ago, without getting off the bike..


I cheated and got off the bike to take mine


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> 2 FDJ riders in the break, Roy and Fedrigo, so it could be a French win today...


 

Quintana today! Movistar have nowt else to work for...


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

Mollema said he has never climbed ventoux before but it's only a climb...

What's that saying about poor prep...

Froome climbed it in may.


----------



## asterix (14 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Mollema said he has never climbed ventoux before but it's only a climb...
> 
> What's that saying about poor prep...
> 
> Froome climbed it in may.


 

Gamesmanship?


----------



## theloafer (14 Jul 2013)

watch kelly and froome climbing ventoux should be a great stage today... opps forgot link

http://www.bestsportgo.tv/20130131/vv510a6315e2152626115287-493129.html


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Mollema said he has never climbed ventoux before but it's only a climb...
> 
> What's that saying about poor prep...
> 
> Froome climbed it in may.



Never climbed it all or just not in a race? 

Afaik, Froome has never been up it in race conditions either. He didn't do the Tour in 2009 and they didn't go up it in 2008.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Looks like the peloton are not going to let someone in the break win this stage. Gap has dropped from 7 mins to 3 and a half at the half way point.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

Average speed so far today - 47kph


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

It's go time!


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Go FROOMEDAWG!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

Skynet put the machines on the front....

Beware the machines, attack them, they must be destroyed.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Here we go then


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Rolland dropped already!


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Lopez and G off the train already. Oo-er!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Lopez is a waste of time


----------



## tug benson (14 Jul 2013)

Ha ha ha Sagan


----------



## RWright (14 Jul 2013)

tug benson said:


> Ha ha ha Sagan


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Sagan is a dude


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

For anyone who missed it...


----------



## G3CWI (14 Jul 2013)

Froome very high cadence


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Dammit, I *heart* Sylvain Chavanel.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Tony Martin suddenly dropped to my speed then.

Schleck gone


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Dammit, I *heart* Sylvain Chavanel.


Futile but brave!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Tony Martin suddenly dropped to my speed then.
> 
> Schleck gone


Who'd have guessed!!!


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

I wonder... Have OPQS got some kind of plan up their sleeve?


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

yep, Schleck at walking pace, in fact, he almost fell off his bike there


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Quintana attacks early


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I wonder... Have OPQS got some kind of plan up their sleeve?


Keep Kwiatowski in white?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

An attack needs to happen very soon...and there goes Quintana !


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Wow. I was just thinking Nieve had gone too early, then Quintana goes and does that...


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Kennaugh has come out of this with credit for Sky


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Keep Kwiatowski in white?



That's what I was thinking, but it looks like Quintana has other ideas...


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

If Phil Liggett says "He's a pedaller of charm" one more time I am gonna stick his microphone up his arse!!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> If Phil Liggett says "He's a pedaller of charm" one more time I am gonna stick his microphone up his arse!!


He's talking out of that anyway so not too far to go


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Who's Richie Froome? Sherwitt just said he was eating an energy gel.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

cuddles struggling


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Who's Richie Froome? Sherwitt just said he was eating an energy gel.



Earlier he said "the maillot jaune has Porte around him".


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> If Phil Liggett says "He's a pedaller of charm" one more time I am gonna stick his microphone up his arse!!


 
In the absence of a eurosport feed, i've gone for a French one. They make more sense than ITV4 ...

This is my Tommy Simpson monument picture:







I bet there will be a few more people there today.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Has Bertie got the legs to attack?
I can't see Mollema doing so


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

To be honest I dont see much damage getting done to Froome today, if Contador does attack and sticks he wont open up a big gap with the distance left, I think this will be more of a stage victory for someone further down the table. Froom still looks very comfortable and probably does not need too many helpers anyway.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Someone running alongside with a Froomedog banner


----------



## gaz (14 Jul 2013)

Wheeeeelie


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Has Bertie got the legs to attack?
> I can't see Mollema doing so



If I were Mollema, I'd be marking Contador very closely. Remains to be seen if he can stick with Contador when he attacks. I do hope so!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> To be honest I dont see much damage getting done to Froome today, if Contador does attack and sticks he wont open up a big gap with the distance left, I think this will be more of a stage victory for someone further down the table. Froom still looks very comfortable and probably does not need too many helpers anyway.


If Froome blew, unlikely, 6 miles is a feck of a long way


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> If Froome blew, unlikely, 6 miles is a feck of a long way


 
10 meters is a feck of a long way when you've popped!


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Kennaugh is a flippin' superhero.


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

Kennaugh has blown up. Thought he was gonna get off!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Porte is earning his corn now


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Kennaugh is a flippin' superhero.


I thought he was about to fall over there


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I thought he was about to fall over there


 

He's gonna look for more berries in the bushes


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Fecking ITV4 adverts!!!!!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2013)

Sure Liggett just said 'Noodley can feckin do one'.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Contador dancing on the pedals - often a sign he's about to attack.


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

Porte has got to go for 4 or 5 k here. Hell of a turn.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Contador dancing on the pedals - often a sign he's about to attack.


...or fecked


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Ha! Valverde's blown up, like I always knew he would.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

Froome on 38x28 for this, apparently


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

oooh, hello!


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Wowsers - Porte has knocked everyone apart from Contador and Froome out the back door


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Froome on 38x28 for this, apparently


 

I was wondering what he was using.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Mollema struggling now. Boo!


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Belkin boys struggling now


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Fecking ITV4 adverts!!!!!


funny you should say that, I was forced to watch itv4 as eurosport is not on in the gym tv here, and I felt there were more ad breaks, and for longer. Back in the room today with ES for me.


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

Armstrong v pantani anyone?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

Porte has had his Wheaties today


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

Bloody hell


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

go froomedog!!!!


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

Go on froomie you impressive bugger


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> Armstrong v pantani anyone?



Go and stand in the corner, you naughty boy.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2013)

Woohoo dawg!


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Froome flies off - dropping Contador - exhilarating !


----------



## fossyant (14 Jul 2013)

Froome has gone.


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

Bit more exciting than Wiggo...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

Big move from Froome. Wise ?


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

FFS this is unbelievable


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

My god it's a long way off yet.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Woof Woof !

The dawg has broken his leash !


----------



## tug benson (14 Jul 2013)

Froomedog is away


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

No way, he cant keep this up surely


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

How does he accelerate like that?????


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

A bit of a way to go for sure, but by heck that was impressive. Who's keeping up with who at the front?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> FFS this is unbelievable



The Clinic must be in meltdown by now.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> The Clinic must be in meltdown by now.


Wow - french tv casting aspersions too - one commentator just said Froome probably just got a message form his DS to say to slow down in case it looks too obvious like he's doping... !


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Wow - french tv casting aspersions too - one commentator just said Froome probably just got a message form his DS to say to slow down in case it looks too obvious like he's doping... !


"The French. Not winning their own bike race since 1985".


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

That's outrageous - self-gratification artists


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

I would be a bit happier if he at least looked like he was working hard.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

FFS


----------



## Nearly there (14 Jul 2013)

Froomes a lazy get


----------



## G3CWI (14 Jul 2013)

Froome is awesome!


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I would be a bit happier if he at least looked like he was working hard.


 
Everyone looks different. I look like I'm suffering going downhill.

The thing is, these are just kicks and then settle back. In the 90's they used to kick and keep the same pace. People have short memories.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

"@lancearmstrong: Hey @chrisfroome - no gifts on the Ventoux."


----------



## theloafer (14 Jul 2013)

whoooooooooooooooooooo wtg froomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## RWright (14 Jul 2013)

Froome


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Mollema's closing on Contador! Yes!


----------



## tug benson (14 Jul 2013)

Go on froome


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

He's in a world of pain as the comms say


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

He looked liked he was suffering on that last attack and is suffering now.


----------



## G3CWI (14 Jul 2013)

The man is super human!!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (14 Jul 2013)

Fab show! Wiggo wouldn't have done this.


----------



## Nearly there (14 Jul 2013)

Awesome froomy


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2013)

Yay!


----------



## Herzog (14 Jul 2013)

Anyone time it?


----------



## G3CWI (14 Jul 2013)

That last corner looks painful


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Froome take 27 sec from Quintana who made a fantastic ride himself
J Rod & Nieve coming in around 1 min 20 down- Contador at 1 min 40 back


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

That answeared a few questions.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Mollema only a few seconds behind Contador at the finish. Fab.

Edit: or was it Ten Dam? Hmm.

Nope, that was Mollema who came in ahead of Ten Dam. Must have been Gesink who came in behind.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

"@SkyOrla: On a scale of facial expression you'd have Voeckler at one end, Quintana at the other."

"@franmillar: I wouldn't want to play poker with Nairo"


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

Nice one Chris. I think it's fair to say that as much as we all enjoyed last year's result, as much as Brad and team deserved it, and they did, should he get the win (nothing to be taken for granted yet), Mr Froome has had the greater achievement. He's had to do more of the work for himself- sterling job by Richie Porte again today though- and he's still on top.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

I still say that Orica bus has a lot to answer for in terms of my enjoyment of this race...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> That answeared a few questions.


 
And raised a few more. I'm afraid I'm more than a little suspicious of what I've just seen. Clearly a great ride until shown otherwise, and I know Quintana went too early and had been out front longer than Froome, but I simply can't believe how easily Froome distanced him when he decided he wanted to.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Mollema only a few seconds behind Contador at the finish. Fab.
> 
> Edit: or was it Ten Dam? Hmm.
> 
> Nope, that was Mollema who came in ahead of Ten Dam. Must have been Gesink who came in behind.


Ten Dam came in before Mollema I think


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Fab show! Wiggo wouldn't have done this.


That's why I prefer Brad - more like a human being.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Yep, Ten Dam then Mollema then Gesink for Belkin


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And raised a few more. I'm afraid I'm more than a little suspicious of what I've just seen. Clearly a great ride until shown otherwise, and I know Quintana went too early and had been out front longer than Froome, but I simply can't believe how easily Froome distanced him when he decided he wanted to.


 
I saw Armstrong v pantani when both where at the top of their heamocrit game and both looked reasonable when going up ventoux. Froome looked in real suffering mode at the end and I think that may well be the key to what we just saw. 

There was a lot of pain in the man in yellow just there.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2013)

The Clinic's down again


----------



## Andrew_Culture (14 Jul 2013)

I wanna see the Columbian lad win a stage!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> There was a lot of pain in the man in yellow just there.


 
I hope so. I'll believe it more if he gets attacked and loses some time in the Alps.


----------



## Slaav (14 Jul 2013)

If froome is on the juice (which I don't believe) the surely the new White Jersey will be as well?

It appears that Froome was shepherded most of the way whilst Quintana wasn't? Q went much earlier on his own and nearly stayed with Froome. Froome played poker and then burst away from Dirty Bertie to jump to Q.

Great viewing. Great excitement and maybe Sky today played a blinder


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Yep, Ten Dam then Mollema then Gesink for Belkin



I got confused because I thought I saw Mollema approaching the finish, then the camera cut away, then cut back to show Ten Dam crossing the line...

But it was Mollema six seconds behind Contador, then Ten Dam another few seconds back, according to the official results.


----------



## just jim (14 Jul 2013)

The Clinic should have increased it's bandwidth to cope with the strain but chose not to I suppose, because it would give it an unfair advantage over other cycling forums.


----------



## MickyMickster (14 Jul 2013)

Ned on twitter said Froome recieving oxygen but is ok.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I got confused because I thought I saw Mollema approaching the finish, then the camera cut away, then cut back to show Ten Dam crossing the line...
> 
> But it was Mollema six seconds behind Contador, then Ten Dam another few seconds back, according to the official results.


 
Well, they are wrong


----------



## G3CWI (14 Jul 2013)

2547459 said:


> And, if it is clean, this is the damage that the cheats have done, making it almost impossible not to doubt.



Agreed. The cheats have damaged cycling as a sport for their own ends.


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

I also hope that Quintana gets a stage. Deserves one, maybe the double ascent if he recovers well and it doesn't all go splitsville on the descent. Once he gets his descending sorted he will be a serious contender.


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

My view, i have just witnessed one of the greatest rides ever by a clean rider.


----------



## Chris Norton (14 Jul 2013)

Froomie looks in pain getting off the podium! That hurt.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

MickyMickster said:


> Ned on twitter said Froome recieving oxygen but is ok.


 
It would be particularly odd if he managed to do that and not need to breath at the top...

My take is I just think Sky are better at training their riders and that the likes of Contador's lack of performance now shows how much he benefited from dodgy preparations in the past.
Froome's line is that he has no worry that future analysis will not show up illegal practices. It is essentially saying people are welcome to retroactively test his samples going forward. You would have to be very confident to think you had discovered some doping practice that would remain undetected going forward. 

To point the finger before even getting the likes of VAM figures is also jumping the gun - anybody got anything to look at yet ?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

At least he now has plenty of jerseys to keep him warm on the descent.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> How does he accelerate like that?????


 
Indeed.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> It would be particularly odd if he managed to do that and not need to breath at the top...
> 
> My take is I just think Sky are better at training their riders and that the likes of Contador's lack of performance now shows how much he benefited from dodgy preparations in the past.
> Froome's line is that he has no worry that future analysis will not show up illegal practices. It is essentially saying people are welcome to retroactively test his samples going forward. You would have to be very confident to think you had discovered some doping practice that would remain undetected going forward.
> ...


There was a terrific headwind, I doubt any numbers will be accurate.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

"@TheRaceRadio: It does appear that Froome was about 12% off Mayo's record....that is a good thing"


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

If it looks to good to be true, it probably is.

Having said that I believe Sky are not using any _ currently banned_ supplement to their training.


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

Didn't sky do a lot of training on Ventoux


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Meanwhile, Tyson Gay actually tests positive.


----------



## jifdave (14 Jul 2013)

@franmillar: Richie Froome and Chris Porte totally smashed that today. Helped by Pete Siutsou, David Kennaugh, Ian Lopez, Kosta Thomas and G Stannard

Lol


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> If it looks to good to be true, it probably is.



You have to define your parameters for what "looks too good to be true" - preferably with reference to some numbers.


----------



## Paul99 (14 Jul 2013)

The problem with Froome and the reason that he is under suspicion for using a substance, banned or otherwise, is peoples perception of him.

If Quintana had won that stage in Froomes position, would people be casting doubt on his cleanliness?

Froome is having doubt cast on his performance because he isn't being given enough credit for his climbing. He is clearly, imo, the best climber in the cycling world and had just beaten the 2nd best climber in the cycling world.

Put in those terms, is it clear that he is doping or just the best climber by a country mile?


----------



## beastie (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> There was a terrific headwind, I doubt any numbers will be accurate.


I thought it was a tail wind. Either way it shows how much stronger Froome is than everyone else.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> I thought it was a tail wind. Either way it shows how much stronger Froome is than everyone else.


After the last turn I think. Before that it was head.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2013)

There was wind as they looped up the side it swung around.

I wonder how a fresh Nibbles would have done today.


----------



## Auntie Helen (14 Jul 2013)

I like the fact that the music at the end of the ITV4 Live programme was "Night on Bald Mountain" by Mussorgsky!


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> I thought it was a tail wind. *Either way it shows how much stronger Froome is than everyone else.*



I don't believe he is simply THAT much stronger than every other rider, the pace and apparent ease that he dropped others, made me sit up for a number of reasons.
Hope he answers questions rather than just get the hump they are to be expected with such a performance.

Hope I'm wrong though and my concerns are unfounded


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> There was wind as they looped up the side it swung around.
> 
> I wonder how a fresh Nibbles would have done today.


 
I was disappointed that Vince Nibbles wasn't at the tour to be honest...mainly because this is my first year of cyclng/following cycling and he stormed the Giro.

Oh, and the Astana jersey looks alright


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Was I watching the same stage as those who thought it looked "easy" for Froome? There was a great big caravan-sized suitcase of pain on the road to the top of Ventoux. A stunning ride.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

2547498 said:


> I wonder if there is an equivalent with decent people in banking who bemoan the damage done to their reputation by mavericks


 
Don't get me started...
This last week I was rejected for a job after 4 afternoons of interviews, partly for cultural reasons, the concern being I would bring too much of a nasty banking mentality to the firm. I told them to man up or go f*ck themselves (just joking - i told them thanks for the experience).


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Don't get me started...
> This last week I was rejected for a job after 4 afternoons of interviews, partly for cultural reasons, the concern being I would bring too much of a nasty banking mentality to the firm. I told them to man up or go f*ck themselves
> (just joking - i told them thanks for the experience).


Was it for the Diplomatic Corps, Thom?


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Was I watching the same stage as those who thought it looked "easy" for Froome? There was a great big caravan-sized suitcase of pain on the road to the top of Ventoux. A stunning ride.


Ahem...


rich p said:


> He's in a world of pain as the comms say


----------



## beastie (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> After the last turn I think. Before that it was head.


Greg Henderson tweeted that was a tailwind all the way, and Ross Tucker says time slower than Wiggo ( I assume from 2009).


----------



## RobNewcastle (14 Jul 2013)

Awesome ride by Froome and a good point made by someone already that he was grimacing at points with the effort, not cruising up effortlessly. The doping questions will no doubt come and current riders are still going to suffer because of the actions of those in the past. I don't for one minute believe Froome is doping, Brailsfords whole cycling ethos is the antithesis of doping. It's the same meticulous approach to training that yielded so much success on the track that is now benefitting Sky on the road.

Sky were laughed at by the continental sides when they started their road racing era, who's laughing now then? 

Can see Froome extending his lead to 5 mins come the TT in Wednesday and barring a crash or something spectacular he'll be in yellow a week today. Great ride by Porte today to stick the knife in at such a crucial time.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

It may seem naïve (and I've always been a cynic re cycling and doping) but I am certain in my own mind that Froome is clean. The statements that his wins will never be rescinded, the body language, the strong anti-doping stance of him and the team, the offer to have his blood retro-tested. Clearly none of that is conclusive and I can understand why people have doubts but, for me, I'm convinced.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Was it for the Diplomatic Corps, Thom?


Truth be told, twas for a hedge fund.


----------



## moxey (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> After the last turn I think. Before that it was head.


 
Greg Henderson has tweeted about having having a tailwind up the whole climb


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Greg Henderson tweeted that was a tailwind all the way, and Ross Tucker says time slower than Wiggo ( I assume from 2009).


oh! See that what happens when you listen to Sherwitt, they said head.


----------



## RobNewcastle (14 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It may seem naïve (and I've always been a cynic re cycling and doping) but I am certain in my own mind that Froome is clean. The statements that his wins will never be rescinded, the body language, the strong anti-doping stance of him and the team, the offer to have his blood retro-tested. Clearly none of that is conclusive and I can understand why people have doubts but, for me, I'm convinced.



Yeah you've just summed up my thoughts better than I have, haha


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> He looked liked he was suffering on that last attack and is suffering now.


He never looked like he was in difficulty, as Sean Kelly would say. Gas in the tank still at the top. Not sure if he accelerated or Quintana slowed down.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Truth be told, twas for a hedge fund.


 I knew you were an utter banker, Thom.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Greg Henderson tweeted that was a tailwind all the way, and Ross Tucker says time slower than Wiggo ( I assume from 2009).


 
That day the race was a disappointment because nobody attacked as the last 7 km were into a block headwind, so that is a remarkable comparison.
To put it into perspective, this edition saw the longest stage in the tour for 30 years or something and the average speed was really high, so you would imagine the riders were more knackered doing the climb this time than in 2009.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> He never looked like he was in difficulty, as Sean Kelly would say. Gas in the tank still at the top. Not sure if he accelerated or Quintana slowed down.


 
Froome said in his interview that he didn't accelerate, Quintana just dropped off his wheel


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Froome said in his interview that he didn't accelerate, Quintana just dropped off his wheel


I saw that but it looked like an attack to me.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> The problem with Froome and the reason that he is under suspicion for using a substance, banned or otherwise, is peoples perception of him.
> 
> If Quintana had won that stage in Froomes position, would people be casting doubt on his cleanliness?
> 
> ...


He is a very good climber, obviously, but I guess when he is also a very good time triallist as well then folk are bound to ask questions, it is only natural. If he was also wearing the green jersey then I think they would be right.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> oh! See that what happens when you listen to Sherwitt, they said head.



Well, those two speak from their tail so you can understand their confusion.


----------



## Slaav (14 Jul 2013)

Doesn't Froome now have 3 jerseys? (or is it just the two )
He obviously will wear yellow so I guess they go to the repsective No 2s?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> Doesn't Froome now have 3 jerseys? (or is it just the two )
> He obviously will wear yellow so I guess they go to the repsective No 2s?


 
Polka goes to 3rd place as Quintana is 2nd but has the white jersey


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I saw that but it looked like an attack to me.


 
staying at the same speed with an increase in gradient would be the same as an acceleration surely


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> staying at the same speed with an increase in gradient would be the same as an acceleration surely


It would, I'll watch the replay later.


----------



## Rob3rt (14 Jul 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> staying at the same speed with an increase in gradient would be the same as an acceleration surely


 

No..........

edit: Or maybe depending on what exactly you mean.


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> It would, I'll watch the replay later.


 
I didn't see it today as I was on my bike. I'll be watching the highlights though, I just thought that's a point that should be made.


----------



## Louch (14 Jul 2013)

Don't see the need for brad bashing, they have both done great achievements


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> No..........
> 
> edit: Or maybe depending on what exactly you mean.


 
well, if they're doing 10mph* at say 8% gradient, and then it becomes 13% for a section and froome stays at 10mph for this section and Quintana doesn't manage to do so, it would seem as if Froome is accelerating away, when really this wouldn't be the case.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Stage 15. Mont Ventoux (last 6.68 km, 7.87 %, 526 m). Chris Froome: 18 min 57 sec, 21.15 Kph, VAM 1665 m/h, 5.97 W/kg [DrF].









The weather station does look a little like a syringe though...


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Whilst I'm not inclined to necessarily believe the words or face or body language, Froome has a comically high cadence and that gives me reason to think 'maybe'. Now before you all leap down my throat about cadence and the purported value of high cadence (not to mention it's previous adherents), Froome's cadence - and maybe gearing too, I think he was riding 38/29? or was it 39/28?? - does set him apart from other riders. So maybe MAYBE Sky have been mastering something there (plus also maybe Froome being a natural, even freakish, athlete) that other teams have not fully exploited.

I don't want to jump to an assumption of doping, and I want to believe the Sky marginal gains mantra, but I'm finding it difficult. I'm looking for something to explain just how it is that Froome can leave other riders going backwards.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Froome's cadence - and maybe gearing too, I think he was riding *38/29? or was it 39/28?*? - does set him apart from other riders. So maybe MAYBE Sky have been mastering something there (plus also maybe Froome being a natural, even freakish, athlete) that other teams have not fully exploited.
> 
> I don't want to jump to an assumption of doping, and I want to believe the Sky marginal gains mantra, but I'm finding it difficult. I'm looking for something to explain just how it is that Froome can leave other riders going backwards.


 
Just had a look at the Osymetric website, and their 'compact' rings are indeed 38 teeth (though the asymmetry means they're not directly comparable with oval chainrings). I would have thought for Ventoux (if not other lumpier stages) that Sky would have fitted bigger cassettes and if needed modded derailleurs, as they did last year for Brad (he had a 36t cassette for at least one stage).


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2013)

Possibly Mr Froome is a better climber than anyone else? Just a thought....
Brilliant ride by Froomy and great, great work by Ritchie Porte.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

"better", ah, I see now. why didn't I think of that


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jul 2013)

Enjoyed that stage. Surprised by the disbelief portrayed by some though. 
I feel we seen this coming - Froome victory with Quintana 2nd and the rest flapping about behind in dismay. No one has showed otherwise. I did hope for a Contador attack or two but truth is he is not the same climber he once was. There may or may not be a good reason for that. 
It seems to me a combination of Froome's form and everyone else's lack of. One would have a clearer picture if Nibali was taking part in good form. As it stands though Froome is simply too strong. The good news is that it is anyones guess who will end up in the podium places. Green jersey seems obvious with the White Jersey likely now staying on Quintana's shoulders till Paris. Froome will likely take Polka Dot too just because he appears to be bloody greedy!! 

Said it before, say it again - lovin this race.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Stage 15. Mont Ventoux (last 6.68 km, 7.87 %, 526 m). Chris Froome: 18 min 57 sec, 21.15 Kph, VAM 1665 m/h, 5.97 W/kg [DrF].
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't see any 15km times yet, does anyone have any?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

I see Froome needed oxygen immediately after the race. I doubt whether that's an indicator of doping, but it's certainly an indication that he's putting himself to the limit.


----------



## Ladep Rewop (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Whilst I'm not inclined to necessarily believe the words or face or body language, Froome has a comically high cadence and that gives me reason to think 'maybe'. Now before you all leap down my throat about cadence and the purported value of high cadence (not to mention it's previous adherents), Froome's cadence - and maybe gearing too, I think he was riding 38/29? or was it 39/28?? - does set him apart from other riders. So maybe MAYBE Sky have been mastering something there (plus also maybe Froome being a natural, even freakish, athlete) that other teams have not fully exploited.
> 
> I don't want to jump to an assumption of doping, and I want to believe the Sky marginal gains mantra, but I'm finding it difficult. I'm looking for something to explain just how it is that Froome can leave other riders going backwards.


 
It saddens me to see how cynical people have become "Post Armstrong" ..... and I can't really blame them ....... but can you imagine The great Eddie Merckx having to explain to every on the couch analyst in minute detail how on earth he won the 17th stage of the 1969 Tour dr France over four colsby eight minutes after riding alone for 140k.

Sometimes exceptional athletes produce exceptional performances.


----------



## chris barnes (14 Jul 2013)

have to say yello what a typically british attitude you have for once british sport is having a steller period why not spoill that by throwing the first stone . there is not one shread of evidence that team SKY is doping . But i suppose that hasn't stopped one trick pony Kimmerage so why should it stop you.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> it's certainly an indication that he's putting himself to the limit.


 
whereas other riders are simply ill-prepared, out of form or just out for a pootle? Nah, sorry. More to it than that. Froome is not just better, that I can accept, he's making others look like part-timers.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Ladep Rewop said:


> It saddens me to see how cynical people have become "Post Armstrong"


 
Many were cynical _and ignored_ during Armstrong too! 

I could accept 'exceptional athlete', I said as much in the same post you called me cynical for, but I want to know that is all that's going on. I'm not pointing a finger (  ), I'm but I am suspicious. Oh, and Merckx could have been doping.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> whereas other riders are simply ill-prepared, out of form or just out for a pootle? Nah, sorry. More to it than that. Froome is not just better, that I can accept, he's making others look like part-timers.


Or making them look like reformed dopers who haven't MTFUd on their training?

The legal principle is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way round.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

And Merckx was doping, at least some of the time. He got caught...
But doping cannot and does not explain all those great results (even if he had access to blood products... which he didn't).


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> The legal principle is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way round.


 
Why is that when you voice doubt that you suddenly become a pariah? People start reading stuff in that you've not said. I refer you to the post I made above.

"MTFUd"?? So, what, nobody else trains either?


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

Good to see that the win has resulted in the thread heading downhill worse than Andy Schleck...


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> The legal principle is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way round.



Sport isn't a court of law.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Good to see that the win has resulted in the thread heading downhill worse than Andy Schleck...


 
I was hoping for that witchfinder jpg. Is that not one of yours?


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Ahhh.... I can sleep easily now


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> whereas other riders are simply ill-prepared, out of form or just out for a pootle? Nah, sorry. More to it than that. Froome is not just better, that I can accept, he's making others look like part-timers.


I wasn't claiming anything other than to assert that Froome is not having a cake-walk here. I don't know enough about doping to judge but I dread to think of what kind of a backlash Froome (and Sky) would have to face if he squeaked any way but cleanly. Imagine the revulsion from the British, who are remembering how to cycle, and whose racers are learning how to win. It would be worse than LA's pariah status.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> I was hoping for that witchfinder jpg. Is that not one of yours?


 
Only used when I see a witch. No pointy hat or a black cat for Froomedog. IMO.


----------



## iLB (14 Jul 2013)

Some serious eye brow raising for me this afternoon.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Only used when I see a witch. No pointy hat or a black cat for Froomedog. IMO.


 
I thought maybe *I* was the witch, for daring to question Froome's performances!

Folks, for the record, and again, I could be wrong but I do not believe Froome is doping.

Edit: careful there ILB!


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Why is that when you voice doubt that you suddenly become a pariah? People start reading stuff in that you've not said. I refer you to the post I made above.
> 
> "MTFUd"?? So, what, nobody else trains either?


I did say 'making them look like'. Just like you did.

Pariah? Er, no. See that legal principle again. You have your doubts, fair enough. But without evidence, that's all they are.

If someone considers Froome or AN Other is doping, it is up to them to demonstrate that. Sky may or may not release their power data at some point. They don't have to, quite right too, and they're certainly not going to help out the other teams by doing that right now. M Vayer's figures have attracted widespread scepticism, not least because he does not have access to that data. He is in effect guestimating. With the benefit of hindsight, and more importantly overwhelming evidence, LA's doping was proven. No evidence that Froome is doping, not yet. Nothing untoward in his performances. For all the much-vaunted strategy, the marginal gains, a big part of the reason Sky's performance in 2012 was so dominant was that they never had a bad day, Sitsou's retirement notwithstanding. The same could most definitely not be said of the rival teams. Cuddles looked completely worn out on more than one stage. Nibali had nothing more than the odd little nibble (pun intended). This year has clearly been much harder on Sky. Weaker performances from some of their team, crashes, retirements, others upping their game at least a bit. It was always likely to be that way. Froome's performances before the Tour at least matched Wiggo's run last year, and as with Wiggo last year, he's stayed strong when rivals haven't. Sky's methods are clearly working, at least for their team leader.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sport isn't a court of law.


Indeed not. Sports governing bodies the world over would be banged up if it were.


----------



## crisscross (14 Jul 2013)

Fantastic stage again, watched it on fast forward after doing Manchester Blackpool today .... Mont Ventoux, hah, that's nowt, try Lower Lane out of Leigh, with paniers!

I'm a Brad fan, but Froome deserves all the plaudits for his true grit solo efforts this year IMO. LAst year Brad always had the entire Sky train leading him, but Froome has done it the hard way.

Question from an armchair novice.... why does the winner of the day's stage not get a different jersey, instead of just a little plaque? For a lot of riders, this would be their pinnacle of achievements?


----------



## iLB (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> Sky may or may not release their power data at some point. They don't have to, quite right too, and they're certainly not going to help out the other teams by doing that right now. .


 

Don't hold your breath. Can't see what help it would be to other teams, now or in the future? They already know he pee'd all over them.

Agree they shouldn't have to release it though.


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

crisscross said:


> Question from an armchair novice.... why does the winner of the day's stage not get a different jersey, instead of just a little plaque? For a lot of riders, this would be their pinnacle of achievements?


 
So you can see who won the previous day's stage?


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> If someone considers Froome or AN Other is doping, it is up to them to demonstrate that.


 
Not so. I'm an armchair fan and I can continue to be sceptical until I decide otherwise. There's no obligation on me to demonstrate anything to anyone, even if I could. If you don't see the reason for suspicion then that's fine too. 

Given all that's happened, it should surprise nobody that some people are raising eyebrows. I'm sure you can agree with that.


----------



## iLB (14 Jul 2013)

Second rest day tomorrow, hoping no one gets popped.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Not so. I'm an armchair fan and I can continue to be sceptical until I decide otherwise. There's no obligation on me to demonstrate anything to anyone, even if I could. If you don't see the reason for suspicion then that's fine too.
> 
> Given all that's happened, it should surprise nobody that some people are raising eyebrows. I'm sure you can agree with that.


I'll say it again. You have your doubts. That's all they are.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

The difference a year makes :


----------



## jdtate101 (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Not so. I'm an armchair fan and I can continue to be sceptical until I decide otherwise. There's no obligation on me to demonstrate anything to anyone, even if I could. If you don't see the reason for suspicion then that's fine too.
> 
> Given all that's happened, it should surprise nobody that some people are raising eyebrows. I'm sure you can agree with that.


 

Yeah, but those same people will probably raise eyebrows at any rider who would be in the yellow, it's a shame it has to be this way, but what do we expect after Armstrong...he's poisoned the well for years to come. Whilst Froome was very strong he was not superhuman. He gained 29secs on his only real competition, Quintana. That's not the sort of gap that screams doping to me. The fact that everyone else dropped off is more surprising, especially Contador. We've all seen in recent races his lack of form and apparent weakness in both TT's and steep climbs, and it was dramatically exposed today. Same with cuddles, Schleck (no surprise), Valverde etc etc etc...
I do think that SKY are clean, but what is more clear is that their training program and scientific approach is really spot on, and head and shoulders above the other teams.


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

No wonder Sagan got caught by the peloton, he was pulling Wheelies up the mountain


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> There's no obligation on me to demonstrate anything to anyone, even if I could.



Unfortunately, there is an obligation on everyone else to wade through this stuff to get to the discussion of cycling.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> ...head and shoulders above the other teams.


 
WTF was Cavendish thinking about doing this!?? 

View: http://vimeo.com/54494314


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> WTF was Cavendish thinking about doing this!??
> 
> View: http://vimeo.com/54494314




I see nothing wrong with this


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> WTF was Cavendish thinking about doing this!??
> 
> View: http://vimeo.com/54494314




Old GB Olympic sponsorship deal I think - P&G distributed various B athletes around their products last year - Chris Hoy did a razor ad thing I think.


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2013)

Would sky and Dave Brailsford really risk it?

I dont think so.

The worst thing for me is that today and exceptional athlete won a tough race and instead of congratulations and respect, doping and drugs are brought up.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

There must be more interesting things to talk about from today's stage. For example:

Pete Kennaugh: future Tour winner or what?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

David Lopez: what gives?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Tejay Van Garderen: difficult second album syndrome?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Sylvain Chavanel: only honourable Frenchman in the Tour on Bastille day?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger, Mollema and Ten Dam: don't they go uphill well for flatlanders?


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> There must be more interesting things to talk about from today's stage. For example:
> 
> Pete Kennaugh: future Tour winner or what?


 
He's certainly proved himself this Tour. 

Nieve's ride today was also quite exceptional, he managed to maintain a high placing despite being one of the first to attack on the lower slopes, after he was caught and passed.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Nieve's ride today was also quite exceptional, he managed to maintain a high placing despite being one of the first to attack on the lower slopes, after he was caught and passed.



True that. I thought he'd attacked far too early, especially when he seemed to be cracking, but he came back brilliantly towards the end. Chapeau. He's done his market value no harm at all today. 

Very useful Spanish ally for Contador too - Berti might have lost a lot more time otherwise. 

I was mildly impressed by Valverde's late rally too.


----------



## jdtate101 (14 Jul 2013)

Pete's proved himself to be a selfless team player, talented climber and in possession of some real guts. Great things in the future from him for sure.....


----------



## iLB (14 Jul 2013)

J Rod: Kicking in the final meters, hitting form for the brutal final week?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

We knew Kennaugh was a real workhorse even before the Tour started, but he's unproven at this level. Well, he *was* unproven at this level... He's put several more seasoned pros to shame.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> You have your doubts. That's all they are.


 
Did I ever say anything else? It's you that's decided to take me task over them.


----------



## dragon72 (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> *Kreuziger*, Mollema and Ten Dam: don't they go uphill well for *flatlander*s?


 
Since when has the Czech Republic been flat?


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Unfortunately, there is an obligation on everyone else to wade through this stuff to get to the discussion of cycling.


 
That's one of the joys of a forum isn't it? My comments are about cycling, and I'm not alone. A forum will have the same diversity of opinion.

Blimey, I'm hardly raising the unthinkable am I?


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> I don't want to jump to an assumption of doping, and I want to believe the Sky marginal gains mantra, but I'm finding it difficult.* I'm looking for something to explain just how it is that Froome can leave other riders going backwards.*


That would take evidence, or at least consideration of relevant knowledge in the public domain, would it not?


yello said:


> Did I ever say anything else? It's you that's decided to take me task over them.


And multiple others. We're not having a go, we're merely pointing out you're not being entirely fair or consistent on Mr Froome and team.


yello said:


> Not so. *I'm an armchair fan and I can continue to be sceptical until I decide otherwise. There's no obligation on me to demonstrate anything to anyone, even if I could*. If you don't see the reason for suspicion then that's fine too.


So, would you like to consider relevant information in making an opinion or not?



> Given all that's happened, it should surprise nobody that some people are raising eyebrows. I'm sure you can agree with that.


Yes I can. But a raised eyebrow is neither here nor there.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Since when has the Czech Republic been flat?



Doh! I was thinking of Fuglsang.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> But a raised eyebrow is neither here nor there.


 
Then why are you going on about it? Just let it drop eh?


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Sometimes it's worth trawling the clinic

http://spokeydokeyblog.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/ventoux-velocity/

I'm exhausted now but no sacrifice is too great for cc pundits


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2013)

Science of Sport conclusion

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/356425009620725761


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2013)

Cheers crackle. A good read. 

THIS, I can begin to accept



> it looks like Froome has developed an extraordinary CP25 (critical power over 25 mins). It’s likely impossible to improve the FT power any more, as it’s relying on the aerobic system so much, but as we reduce the critical power time, we start to see other systems come into play. Which my hunch tells me is where Sky’s sports scientists are focussing on, it’s where they have expertise, from the track.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

I thought Porte was impressive riding hard tempo for a lot of the last climb to get Froome in a good position. Yet when Froome goes for it, does Porte drop off after giving it his all for him team leader, does he look exhausted for his effort, in pain. Nope he continues at a decent pace with a smile on his face making the climb look effortless.
Very impressive.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

For comedy effect, hope he can stand up to the questions...


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> David Lopez: what gives?


Ok, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - an honest team worker doing the spade work on the first parts of the stages. Sky are 2+ men down and within the team guys are fitting in to whatever has to be done. The whole team has to get credit for me even though they have been shown up at times. He might not be showing on the uphill lead outs but Sky will know his numbers were good enough to keep the likes of Eisel & Knees out of the team.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> J Rod: Kicking in the final meters, hitting form for the brutal final week?


Aye - with luck he might be able to come 2nd to Froome on one the the uphill finishes later ;-)


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

Froome beat Armstrong's 2003 and 2005 time by 10 and 24 seconds respectively, which I thought was interesting

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2045251#post2045251


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I thought Porte was impressive riding hard tempo for a lot of the last climb to get Froome in a good position. Yet when Froome goes for it, does Porte drop off after giving it his all for him team leader, does he look exhausted for his effort, in pain. Nope he continues at a decent pace with a smile on his face making the climb look effortless.
> Very impressive.


Yep, I also thought Porte was excellent today and it may just have confirmed my suspicion that he has been hiding out limelight for a wee while. But for the not looking exhausted jersey, I nominate Quintana. You have to watch him very, very closely to see any sign of fatigue at all - a slightly tired climb out of the saddle just after he'd been dropped by Froome, a small lowering of the head on the finishing line. And that's just about it. And he's a bike rider from top to bottom, unlike Froome, who is the world's best bike fighter.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> , unlike Froome, who is the world's best bike fighter.


 

So do you think Froomestrong has the yellow covered now with such a dominant performance  and the support of a happy chappy who can ride tempo all day without getting tired.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@SkyOrla: On a scale of facial expression you'd have Voeckler at one end, Quintana at the other."
> 
> "@franmillar: I wouldn't want to play poker with Nairo"


 

Quintana is awesome. Apparently Froome was "pretty strong" today.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> The problem with Froome and the reason that he is under suspicion for using a substance, banned or otherwise, is peoples perception of him.
> 
> If Quintana had won that stage in Froomes position, would people be casting doubt on his cleanliness?
> 
> ...


 

And both were born and lived at high altitude.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Whilst I'm not inclined to necessarily believe the words or face or body language, Froome has a comically high cadence and that gives me reason to think 'maybe'. Now before you all leap down my throat about cadence and the purported value of high cadence (not to mention it's previous adherents), Froome's cadence - and maybe gearing too, I think he was riding 38/29? or was it 39/28?? - does set him apart from other riders. So maybe MAYBE Sky have been mastering something there (plus also maybe Froome being a natural, even freakish, athlete) that other teams have not fully exploited.
> 
> I don't want to jump to an assumption of doping, and I want to believe the Sky marginal gains mantra, but I'm finding it difficult.* I'm looking for something to explain just how it is that Froome can leave other riders going backwards*.


 
Because the other riders that you're relating Froome to are ex-dopers and were never that good?


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Good to see that the win has resulted in the thread heading downhill and uphill worse than Andy Schleck...


 

Corrected that for you.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> So do you think Froomestrong has the yellow covered now with such a dominant performance  and the support of a happy chappy who can ride tempo all day without getting tired.


No idea but it's great fun nevertheless!


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> We knew Kennaugh was a real workhorse even before the Tour started, but he's unproven at this level. Well, he *was* unproven at this level... He's put several more seasoned pros to shame.


 

Do you think Sky might give Kennaugh a chance of top dog at a couple of races next year? A bit like what they are doing for Porte?


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## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> Do you think Sky might give Kennaugh a chance of top dog at a couple of races next year? A bit like what they are doing for Porte?


What do you mean? The rate Sky are going Froome will be out with hamstring strain, or struggling form, and Porte will be the main GC rider!! "Kennock" will be Porte's right hand man. Such is the turn around at Team Sky.


----------



## zizou (14 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I thought Porte was impressive riding hard tempo for a lot of the last climb to get Froome in a good position. Yet when Froome goes for it, does Porte drop off after giving it his all for him team leader, does he look exhausted for his effort, in pain. Nope he continues at a decent pace with a smile on his face making the climb look effortless.
> Very impressive.


 
Look at his face in races going back years - he often looks like he is smiling when doing things like a TT. Its just what his race face / grimace looks like nothing sinister about it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> And both were born and lived at high altitude.


the benefits of living at higher altitude dissapear within weeks of returning to low levels. Where Froome grew up has sfa to do with it.


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## Hip Priest (14 Jul 2013)

Incredible stuff from Froome.

Can't see him being caught now, unless something crackers happens on Thursday.


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## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> Look at his face in races going back years - he often looks like he is smiling when doing things like a TT. Its just what his race face / grimace looks like nothing sinister about it.


Also the reason they won't release power data for Froome and others. Poker face in cycling is huge and if the opponents could use their power data against them then that would be unfair. A good poker player won't let on that he has bluffed his way through a game as next time won't be so easy.


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## 400bhp (14 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> the benefits of living at higher altitude dissapear within weeks of returning to low levels. Where Froome grew up has sfa to do with it.


 

If you say so.


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## gyorgyigabor (14 Jul 2013)

If somebody is interested in watching how it is cycling up to Ventoux (HD quality), I suggedt to visit my video:
at 8 min I looked down from the top after cycling up 1st time, than 3 min long descending - video, then after 15 min starts the Bedoin - Ventoux climb. 
That day I cycled up 4 times by my touringbike (Club des Cinglés du Mt Ventoux). 
This is the Mekka of the cyclists; a real pilgrimage destination; that day I saw a lot of cyclists.... 
Later I ascended from malaucene and Sault too.
Video: 


Best regards, 
Gabor


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> Do you think Sky might give Kennaugh a chance of top dog at a couple of races next year? A bit like what they are doing for Porte?


 
They've been grooming him for it since he was 19... Maybe not next year, but within two or three years, definitely.

Amazing to think he's still so young, really - he seems to have been around forever.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Science of Sport conclusion
> 
> https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/356425009620725761


 
These are the only people I really trust on these issues.


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## Slaav (15 Jul 2013)

Just read some utter nonsense elsewhere.... It effectively says that if anyone ever beats Pharmstrong's times, then that is proof alone that they are doping/cheating/rocket fuelled.

Does anyone remember the anniversary of Sir Roger's 4 minute mile? It was said beforehand that it was not possible.... he did it and re wrote the book! What is the current WR? It is not 3.55? 

Things move on. Things improve. DB says that marginal gains were never going to compete with a quick fix of (eg) 10% through EPO but if there are 11 marginal gains????? Or just call me a simpleton?

In this modern era, what would Sir Roger be able to run the mile in????? I wonder...... and it won't be a mrgin under 4 minutes!!!! And I bet he was/would be running clean


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## raindog (15 Jul 2013)

StuAff said:


> Just had a look at the Osymetric website, and their 'compact' rings are indeed 38 teeth (though the asymmetry means they're not directly comparable with oval chainrings). I would have thought for Ventoux (if not other lumpier stages) that Sky would have fitted bigger cassettes and if needed modded derailleurs, as they did last year for Brad (he had a 36t cassette for at least one stage).


Froome _did_ have a bigger cassette yesterday. As I already posted, he rode 38x28.


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Jul 2013)

http://www.strava.com/activities/67057155 just to give an idea to us mere mortals! Probably need to log in to see this properly. Startling stats.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jul 2013)

MrGrumpy said:


> http://www.strava.com/activities/67057155 just to give an idea to us mere mortals! Probably need to log in to see this properly. Startling stats.


All i'll say is Ten Dam is lucky Chris Froome and Quintana are not on Strava!!


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## Herzog (15 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> All i'll say is Ten Dam is lucky Chris Froome and Quintana are not on Strava!!


 
LTD absolutely blasted pretty much all of my KOMs during one stage of the Tour de Suisse...I deleted my Strava account in a fit of petulance afterwards and have since haboured a totally misplaced grudge against him!


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (15 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> Just read some utter nonsense elsewhere.... It effectively says that if anyone ever beats Pharmstrong's times, then that is proof alone that they are doping/cheating/rocket fuelled.
> 
> Things move on. Things improve. DB says that marginal gains were never going to compete with a quick fix of (eg) 10% through EPO but if there are 11 marginal gains????? Or just call me a simpleton?
> 
> In this modern era, what would Sir Roger be able to run the mile in????? I wonder...... and it won't be a mrgin under 4 minutes!!!! And I bet he was/would be running clean


 
Froome beat Armstrong's time from 2005 by 25 seconds and this was a time when Armstrong was known to be on the juice. So with a higher Haematocrit level Armstrong was substantially slower.
Not at all evidence but it certainly puts froomestrongs performance into perspective.


----------



## StuAff (15 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Froome _did_ have a bigger cassette yesterday. As I already posted, he rode 38x28.


Sorry, hadn't spotted that.


----------



## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Froome beat Armstrong's time from 2005 by 25 seconds and this was a time when Armstrong was known to be on the juice. So with a higher Haematocrit level Armstrong was substantially slower.
> Not at all evidence but it certainly puts froomestrongs performance into perspective.


 
Is that 25 seconds over an hour long climb? Wind speed and direction? Did LA have a superdom pacing him half way up the climb? Are LA and CF even comparable types of riders?

It's comparing the incomparable.

I am not a huge fan of CF, but this lambasting he's getting purely on the grounds of performance is complete pissing in the wind.


----------



## Boris Bajic (15 Jul 2013)

I'm pretty neutral about doping in pro-cycling (although it isn't the cool stance and never really was).

I think one always suspected (then gravely suspected, then knew) that all the greats of the Indurain, Pantani, Riis, Ullrich, Armstrong era were dirty. Roche, too, and Fignon came clean. It's a long, old time and we all know it went back further than that. And we know it wasn't only the serial winners... It was team-deep.

I think Wiggins (not just for his 2012 results on the road) is an absolute hero. I dare say Froome will approach those levels, in achievement if not in the eliciting of public affection. He is clearly a cut above.

Nonetheless, there are still riders in the peloton who were getting major results and top-three finishes in the 'dark days' (Evans et al) and times are still pretty quick. The time up Ventoux yesterday need not be a marker, but it isn't a 'clean' indicator either.

One can point to the exhaustion hitting Sky after impressive days (Porte the obvious example - a trouper _par excellence_). But for all that, I would not be even a tiny bit surprised if one or two teams hadn't perfected (or optimised) a system of micro-dosing PEDs in a way that gave some marginal improvement but kept blood levels within a prescribed window. It's what I'd do.

Interesting that some panto villains are finding things tough (A Schleck, A Contador, A Sample). It looks like a much cleaner tour than we enjoyed (and I *did* enjoy them) in the past two decades... and I hope it is.

But none of us knows. A lot of opinion is based on fanship. Note the passionate defences of Evans (a hero of mine). People absolutely insist that he was clean and get angrily defensive of him, calling doubters trolls (amusingly). This despite his switch to road being made under the auspices of T Rominger, in consultation with M Ferrari... and despite his quite extraordinary list of jerseys and top-ten finishes in the super-dirty decade he was first racing on the road. He has a lovely, shy smile, so he *cannot* be a doper. Can he?

I hope this TdF is clean. I love the TdF, but I think it would be naive to think that all the money and effort that's gone into doping for the past several decades has just walked away and admitted defeat. Would you? People have invested a lot in this deception.

Pantani, Ulrich and Indurain remain my heroes as much as Evans and Voeckler are... I have no heroes who are not flawed. I think pro-cycling is cleaner today - and perhaps cleaner than many of the 'clean' sports. But that's a comparative adjective, not an absolute.

Back on topic... yesterday's result (and the hellish moonscape last few km) were exactly what I did *not* foresee. Froome deserves a nice rest day. He was simply sensational. As was Quintana... and Chavanel. Not what I predicted and not really what I wanted... but stunning.


----------



## zizou (15 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Is that 25 seconds over an hour long climb? Wind speed and direction? Did LA have a superdom pacing him half way up the climb? Are LA and CF even comparable types of riders?
> 
> It's comparing the incomparable.
> 
> I am not a huge fan of CF, but this lambasting he's getting purely on the grounds of performance is complete ****ing in the wind.



+1 the difference in VAM times can be pretty meaningless because it ignores so many other factors which have a huge impact whether it be the weather or what is happening in the race. In any case its all very well comparing with a cherry picked time from the Armstrong bogeyman but what about others? According to the science in sport guys Froomes time up Ventoux was slower than Wiggins in 2009 (and therefore also slower than Contador, Armstrong, Andy and Frank Schleck, Pellizoti, Kreuziger and Nibali who all started the climb in the same group).


----------



## Radchenister (15 Jul 2013)

So in summary BB, you still suspect doping is taking place?


----------



## jifdave (15 Jul 2013)

Just wondering, why is no one questioning quintana?

He rode away from everyone early

Froome - dragged half way up
Quintana - solo'd
Froome -28 more muscle maturity
Quintana -23 not at peak age....
Froome - grimace at the top
Quintana - no sign of pain
Froome - possible doper
Quintana - super climber.

For the record I think both are clean.


----------



## jarlrmai (15 Jul 2013)

Factors to consider

Tailwind with Movistar leadout to the base of the mountain helped the riders speed and probably conserved the energy for climb?
It was warmer for Froome than Armstrong so better for his muscles and O2?
He apparently needed oxygen after the race as did Quintana (did Armstrong?) is this common?


----------



## Boris Bajic (15 Jul 2013)

Radchenister said:


> So in summary BB, you still suspect doping is taking place?


 
I think many people suspect it. I have no way of knowing and I hope it isn't.

I think I was responding in a way to the black & white view of *'dirty era - clean era'* that one picks up sometimes.

Also to the similar _*'dirty rider - clean rider'*_ partisanship among some fans and devotees.

I do believe that Sir Brailsford's mention of small marginal gains adding up may be some sort of jokey reference - and if it is I wish him well. 

I love the spectacle of it all - particularly a stage like yesterday's. Awesome and impressive stuff.

I also recall the bitter, furious, beyond-passionate defences and accusations coming from the LA Fanboy camp right up to the moment when he coughed up. I see the same degree of certainty, angry defence and blind faith in absolute cleanliness at Sky, but it is viewed as cold analytical judgement, not swivel-eyed fanboy love. Not on these pages, but elsewhere. We all see and hear it.

*Vive le Tour!*


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

In other news (ie actual news), Pinot has retired.


----------



## iLB (15 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Just wondering, why is no one questioning quintana?
> 
> He rode away from everyone early
> 
> ...


 

He's the real deal, supremely talented climber. Been showing what he is capable of for years. And he did get accused by some bungling American reporters during the Vuelta Catalunya earlier this year...


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g2660DUHobM#at=38


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

Quintana is also about 10kg lighter than Froome, fwiw (or 14kg lighter, depending on your sources).


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> In other news (ie actual news), Pinot has retired.


Edited because of brain failure, see later post.


----------



## jifdave (15 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> He's the real deal, supremely talented climber. Been showing what he is capable of for years.


 

As opposed to multiple gt podiums?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> LTD absolutely blasted pretty much all of my KOMs during one stage of the Tour de Suisse...I deleted my Strava account in a fit of petulance afterwards and have since haboured a totally misplaced grudge against him!


You could start a "get Quintana on Strava" campaign in an effort to get him back!


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## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> In other news (ie actual news), Pinot has retired.


 
Having contributed precisely 0 points to my FL team. Loser 

Has taaraamasalata retired yet? He might as well have for all the good he's done me.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Shame to go out on an injury but he was planning this as his last season wasn't he. I did briefly think he might do a Vinokourov and come back for one more.


Forget that: I'm not quite sure who I was thinking of there but it isn't Pinot...... Goes off to Google....


----------



## iLB (15 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> As opposed to multiple gt podiums?


 

At least he had the decency to go backwards in the TT. No one really knows, but it's fair to say that Froome has had a meteoric rise from obscurity since the Vuelta in 2011. Maybe his improvement has been double weighted by a cleaned up peloton and Sky's approach to training. I wonder how long it will take the sport to move out of the shadow of the murky past.


----------



## thom (15 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> LTD absolutely blasted pretty much all of my KOMs during one stage of the Tour de Suisse...I deleted my Strava account in a fit of petulance afterwards and have since haboured a totally misplaced grudge against him!


That is just rude - the race organisers obviously ought to have shown you the merest modicum of respect and neutralised racing on those bits


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Shame to go out on an injury but he was planning this as his last season wasn't he. I did briefly think he might do a Vinokourov and come back for one more.


 
Not sure who you're thinking of*, but I was referring to the 23-year-old rising star of French cycling Thibaut Pinot...

According to this report, he's going to take the rest day to consider it - "we'll see on Tuesday but it's hardly worth carrying on just to finish in the grupetto every day" - but the rumour on Twitter is that he has definitely abandoned**:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Pinot-dans-le-doute/385821

*Jerome Pineau, perhaps? He's still in the race, afaik.

**Maybe I should have used the word "abandoned" initially, rather than "retired"


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

yeah, see up ^

brain fade today. I think I may well have been thinking of several people and several stories which I managed to compress into one wrong rider, Sandy Casar being the main one but I can't think where I got the retirement bit from...never mind.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (15 Jul 2013)

I just read in L'Equipe that Brailsford has said he's in favour of sharing all of their riders' data with a suitable organisation (i.e. WADA). ''We'd give all our information - power data, blood values, body weight and full training details. This data would be analysed using the same methods and we would have confidence in these experts. They would be able to say whether we're believable.''*





*back translation - I haven't seen the English version, if there is one. The article refers to him saying this on Monday, I assume that refers to this morning. If it was last week and it's already been mentioned elsewhere, my apologies.

EDIT: it's just been covered in English here


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Quintana is also about 10kg lighter than Froome, fwiw (or 14kg lighter, depending on your sources).


 Exactly, and this is important. If he puts out the same power as Froome over the same distance then Froome stands no chance. Even though Quintana is super light, Froome obviously has a superior watt/kg ratio over 25-30 minutes. Hence the recent claims of Sky working on CP25 (CP=critical power) with Froome.

Example: Quintana might be putting out 350w over an hour which for a pro rider is not exceptional but when put into an hours climb it becomes extraordinary purely due to his weight. If Quintana weighs 55Kg (approx.) then his watt/kg would be, with the 350w assumption, over 6w/kg. In summary he would be hitting the magic numbers just because he is super light, not doping.

All of the above are assumptions to illustrate a viewpoint.


----------



## rich p (15 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Andy Schleck fancies a stage win in the Alps
> 
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/schleck_targets_alpe_dhuez_after_ventoux_disappointment/


Yah, and I fancy winning the lottery.


----------



## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Exactly, and this is important. *If he puts out the same power as Froome over the same distance* then Froome stands no chance. Even though Quintana is super light, Froome obviously has a superior watt/kg ratio over 25-30 minutes. Hence the recent claims of Sky working on CP25 (CP=critical power) with Froome.
> 
> Example: Quintana might be putting out 350w over an hour which for a pro rider is not exceptional but when put into an hours climb it becomes extraordinary purely due to his weight. If Quintana weighs 55Kg (approx.) then his watt/kg would be, with the 350w assumption, over 6w/kg. In summary he would be hitting the magic numbers just because he is super light, not doping.
> 
> All of the above are assumptions to illustrate a viewpoint.


 
If that was the case then his TT wouldn't be so woeful. You're right about the power/weight ratio, though it is somewhat stating the obvious. But the lighter you are, the lower FTP that you can reasonably expect, which is also stating the obvious.

Either way none of this speculation tells us ANYTHING at all about either Quintana or Froome taking PEDs.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> Froome has had a meteoric rise from obscurity since the Vuelta in 2011


 
http://velorooms.com/the-doping-section/chris-froome/msg59781/#msg59781

People inside the sport were considering Froome a potential GT winner as long ago as 2008.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I think I may well have been thinking of several people and several stories which I managed to compress into one wrong rider, Sandy Casar being the main one but I can't think where I got the retirement bit from...never mind.


 
Hey, I got Kreuziger and Fuglsang mixed up yesterday, so I'm certainly not going to take you to task for that one.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Has taaraamasalata retired yet? He might as well have for all the good he's done me.


 
He finished three and a half minutes ahead of Mark Cavendish yesterday.

Cofidis are having a bit of a stinker of a Tour. They seem to have been completely anonymous so far. Navarro in 20th is their highest placed rider, 23m 36s behind Froome. Next best is Molard in 74th, 1h 28m off the pace.


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## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Hey, I got Kreuziger and Fuglsang mixed up yesterday, so I'm certainly not going to take you to task for that one.


----------



## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> He finished three and a half minutes ahead of Mark Cavendish yesterday.


 
Excellent! Worth having him just for that.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

Came across this gem while looking for more info on Pinot:

"@AdrienMth: Classement de l'étape : 1- Froome 2- Quintana 3- Rodriguez ...... 150- le mec avec son sanglier 151- Thibaut Pinot 152- Rolland"


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## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

Did anyone work what the guy with the sanglier had in his other hand?


----------



## iLB (15 Jul 2013)

Europcar to sponsor team for two more years


----------



## Hont (15 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Just wondering, why is no one questioning quintana?.


 
I have my doubts about Quintana. However his performances in the Tour have been in the realms of the believable and, most importantly, he's not winning the race. Froome's performance, clean or otherwise, is like a black hole sucking all the light from any other dark corners.

Worth mentioning that I have heard that Movistar were all dope tested on both the morning and evening of the first rest day. Presumably following the show of strength last Sunday.


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## jifdave (15 Jul 2013)

https://twitter.com/skycycling/status/356755710429769728

Bertie defending froome


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## jifdave (15 Jul 2013)

Hont said:


> I have my doubts about Quintana. However his performances in the Tour have been in the realms of the believable and, most importantly, he's not winning the race. Froome's performance, clean or otherwise, is like a black hole sucking all the light from any other dark corners.
> 
> Worth mentioning that I have heard that Movistar were all dope tested on both the morning and evening of the first rest day. Presumably following the show of strength last Sunday.



But he's 4 years away from peak... Froome is at peak cycling age


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

Froome is winning because a) he's better and b) his opponents have cocked up.

Where would Kreuziger be if he was team leader or Quintana if he was leader. I reckon they'd both be closer. Valverde and Contador's reputations are built on tainted sand, they're good riders but there are better GC options in their own teams, or at least it looks that way.

I think in this race we are seeing a changing of the guard.


----------



## thom (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I think in this race we are seeing a changing of the guard.


I agree, and you know what ? I think the future will see more variability in Grand Tour winners - I don't think it is easy for the riders to maintain the commitment and health required to get to these levels of fitness year in year out, so absolute dominance by an individual is unlikely and the primacy of individuals across the sport in the way of Armstrong or Contador will likely wane.
Froome ought to win the TdF a few times but I think you'll see injuries (like with Wiggo) playing a part and other teams facing up to what is required going forward. The likes of Quintana will have their day when they get their training bang on. And more athletes will be able to nail it one year but not quite the next.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I agree, and you know what ? I think the future will see more variability in Grand Tour winners - I don't think it is easy for the riders to maintain the commitment and health required to get to these levels of fitness year in year out, so absolute dominance by an individual is unlikely and the primacy of individuals across the sport in the way of Armstrong or Contador will likely wane.
> Froome ought to win the TdF a few times but I think you'll see injuries (like with Wiggo) playing a part and other teams facing up to what is required going forward. The likes of Quintana will have their day when they get their training bang on. And more athletes will be able to nail it one year but not quite the next.


 
I'd agree. We should see more 80's and before type results. Perhaps then, some of this hoohah will die down. Really we've already seen it with Wiggo. He should be here but the commitment required to ride the tour again is beyond him this year. Other reasons have been given but it condenses down to that.


----------



## tigger (15 Jul 2013)

Kerrison says that the doping era caused road cyclingcoaching standards to become retarded and Sky are simply exploiting the knowledge gap.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/tim-kerrison-bradley-wiggins-team-sky


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Where would Kreuziger be if he was team leader or Quintana if he was leader. I reckon they'd both be closer.


 
And we'll never know what JVDB or Brajkovic might have been capable of either...

Fuglsang is doing all right considering he's Plan B.


----------



## MisterStan (15 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Kerrison says that the doping era caused road cyclingcoaching standards to become retarded and Sky are simply exploiting the knowledge gap.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/tim-kerrison-bradley-wiggins-team-sky


 
That is quite shocking really. 


> I guess the teams did a cost-benefit analysis and the best way to invest their limited amount of resource for some teams was to invest in doctors and doping programmes, and coaching suffered.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> And we'll never know whether what JVDB or Brajkovic might have been capable of either...
> 
> Fuglsang is doing all right considering he's Plan B.


 
True.

I can't warm to Astana. I need to keep them at a mental arms length. it's funny he went to Astana, I've never warmed to him either.


----------



## Hont (15 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> But he's 4 years away from peak... Froome is at peak cycling age


 
Possibly, but every athlete is different and remember Laurent Fignon pissed all over Hinault aged only 23.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> If that was the case then his TT wouldn't be so woeful. You're right about the power/weight ratio, though it is somewhat stating the obvious. But the lighter you are, the lower FTP that you can reasonably expect, which is also stating the obvious.
> 
> Either way none of this speculation tells us ANYTHING at all about either Quintana or Froome taking PEDs.


It was clearly in defence of Quintana. Some have mentioned they believe he has been too strong too quick. I have offered an explanation as to why he climbs so well. It doesn't seem obvious to everyone.


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## VamP (15 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> It was clearly in defence of Quintana. Some have mentioned they believe he has been too strong too quick. I have offered an explanation as to why he climbs so well. It doesn't seem obvious to everyone.


 
Ah hell, we're just chewing the cud here. I wasn't having a go at you


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## ayceejay (15 Jul 2013)

Every day on this forum we have questions regarding what to eat and how best to train for results. A lot of answers are 'eat porridge and ride your bike' with the occasional banana! Other sports have improved immensely by paying greater attention to nutrition and scientific training methods, cycling is at last catching up on this. In the past drugs allowed many to bypass natural ways to get the best from your body, if you remove drugs from the equation but continue with the old ways of training don't be surprised if you don't perform like you used to.
When Bannister ran a mile in 4 minutes it was a miracle - now marathon runners run 26 miles in just over 2 hours which is close to 4.5 minutes per mile, Bannister had a day job, although this is not the only difference.


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## raindog (15 Jul 2013)

As you can imagine, French media full of undisguised speculation about Froome/Brailsford/Sky today.
http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...e-avec-armstrong-et-pantani_3447779_3242.html
And I've had quite a few phone calls from pals rolling around laughing at Froome's performance on the Ventoux.


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## NickM (15 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> ...Merckx could have been doping.


I am cynical too. But the kind of dope that could produce 8-minute stage wins did not exist during Merckx's career.


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## NickM (15 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Cheers crackle. A good read.
> 
> THIS, I can begin to accept


And if Froome uses his exceptional CP25 (or CP20, or CP15) in the final phase of the stage, his teammates, trained in the same way, use theirs somewhat earlier. When they reach the end of their period of available very high power they drop off the pace and hand over to the next teammate.

Which is just what other teams try to do... but in a less structured, defined, tactically effective way. It is consistent with their approach that the Sky sports science support team would have interpreted, made more formal, and optimised, something which other teams with overall contenders do - but do far less effectively.


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## yello (15 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Kerrison says that the doping era caused road cyclingcoaching standards to become retarded and Sky are simply exploiting the knowledge gap.


 
I could go for something like that.


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## yello (15 Jul 2013)

NickM said:


> I am cynical too. But the kind of dope that could produce 8-minute stage wins did not exist during Merckx's career.


 
I was being flippant. Hence the smiley!  In truth, I have no idea what dope existed when nor what it might realistically produce.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jul 2013)

NickM said:


> And if Froome uses his exceptional CP25 (or CP20, or CP15) in the final phase of the stage, his teammates, trained in the same way, use theirs somewhat earlier. When they reach the end of their period of available very high power they drop off the pace and hand over to the next teammate.
> 
> Which is just what other teams try to do... but in a less structured, defined, tactically effective way. It is consistent with their approach that the Sky sports science support team would have interpreted, made more formal, and optimised, something which other teams with overall contenders do - but do far less effectively.


This is quite possibly what Sky do so well. What makes it so impressive from Froome's performance is that he keeps up with all of his teammates during their CP15/20/25's and then still has the gas to go again over the top of everyone else. The guys working on the front are only pacing, not drafting - unless climbing on a windy day and into a headwind. I don't believe this was the case? 

So really whilst Sky may have been working on this 25 minute effort for everyone, it is really only Froome who is capable of doing the damage he inflicted on Mout Ventoux.


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## beastie (15 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> This is quite possibly what Sky do so well. What makes it so impressive from Froome's performance is that he keeps up with all of his teammates during their CP15/20/25's and then still has the gas to go again over the top of everyone else. The guys working on the front are only pacing, not drafting - unless climbing on a windy day and into a headwind. I don't believe this was the case?
> 
> So really whilst Sky may have been working on this 25 minute effort for everyone, it is really only Froome who is capable of doing the damage he inflicted on Mout Ventoux.


I think that's why he is the last man in the line. He was very impressive on Ventoux.


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## Noodley (15 Jul 2013)

I wonder if Pom Bears are good food to improve fitness, just had my 2nd packet of the day.


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## dragon72 (15 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I wonder if Pom Bears are good food to improve fitness, just had my 2nd packet of the day.


 
I read that as "P o r n" bears. 
Either way, it's pretty lurid behaviour.


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## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

A few lumps and bumps today but nothing to frighten the horses. Will a break succeed or will Contador feel it's a stage to put Sky under some pressure because it's looking unlikely he can do so in the big hills.


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## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

In other news, I have an interesting and unusual fact to inform you lot about that may well have escaped your attention.
Cofidis and Lampre are both in this years race. I bet none of you had noticed that - no need to thank me for my tireless, dogged research on your behalf.


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## PpPete (16 Jul 2013)

OK, here's a question for all you knowledgeable folks...
Pierre Roland, having abandoned GC ambitions this year is said to want the KOM. Has he any chance of regaining it or will he be thwarted by the GC podium contenders burning up the remaining lumps?

1. FROOME C. SKY 83 pts
2. QUINTANA ROJAS N. MOV 66 pts
3. NIEVE ITURRALDE M. EUS 53 pts
4. ROLLAND P. EUC 51 pts
5. KREUZIGER R. TST 28 pts
6. RODRIGUEZ OLIVER J. KAT 28 pts
7. PORTE R. SKY 28 pts


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## Noodley (16 Jul 2013)

Rolland has no chance.


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## PpPete (16 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Rolland has no chance.


 
OK then, predictions for KOM?
I'm sure Froome has no ambitions for it, but has anyone added up the available points to see which might go for a break?


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

There's a potential 106 points on offer in Friday's stage. Rolland's best/only chance will be to get in an early breakaway and mop up as many of those points as possible. 

However, if Froome wins either/both of Thursday/Saturday's stages, that'll probably wrap it up for him.


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## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Rolland has no chance. I think Froome will get it with an outside chance for Quintana if CF gifts him a win which he was happy to have done at Ventoux.
I say this with no idea of the points available.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

PpPete said:


> OK then, predictions for KOM?
> I'm sure Froome has no ambitions for it, but has anyone added up the available points to see which might go for a break?



Two Cat 2 and a Cat 3 today, so potentially 44 points on offer. Rolland might get the early two climbs (28pts) but not the last one, I suspect. 

Two Cat 2 on tomorrow's TT, which Froome will probably mop up by default, nabbing another 32pts. 

Potentially 85pts on offer for the intermediate climbs on Thursday (1x HC, 3x Cat 2, 1x Cat 3), so Rolland needs to get in an early breakaway, but then there are 50pts for the stage winner, which he doesn't have a hope of getting. 

Friday's stage has two early HC climbs, so that's another potential 50pts that Rolland could get. Plus another potential 56pts (2x Cat 1, 1x Cat 2) if the break is allowed to stay away all day. 

Saturday has 72pts on offer for the intermediate climbs (1x Cat 1, 1x Cat 2, 3x Cat 3), plus another summit finish for 50pts. 

Rolland's only hope is for Froome to concentrate on marking the other GC contenders and allowing the likes of Purito, Nieve, Gadret etc to go for the big stage wins on Thursday and Saturday. But the way Froome has been riding, can you see that as likely? And even less likely given the probability of Quintana and/or Contador attacking on those summit finishes. 

Nieve might also decide he wants to fight Rolland for it and I think he looks a stronger bet.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> A few lumps and bumps today but nothing to frighten the horses. Will a break succeed or will Contador feel it's a stage to put Sky under some pressure because it's looking unlikely he can do so in the big hills.



Nice descent to finish. Could see Mollema and Contador scrapping for seconds? And maybe trying to put some distance on Quintana?

Can't see Froome having any difficulties today. But we said that on the first Sunday...


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## User169 (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Rolland has no chance. I think Froome will get it with an outside chance for Quintana if CF gifts him a win which he was happy to have done at Ventoux.
> I say this with no idea of the points available.



Saw some decent odds this morning for Froome getting KOM if you fancy a wager!


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Best odds listed here are 29/13...
http://www.oddschecker.com/cycling/tour-de-france/king-of-the-mountains

Nieve almost looks worth an each-way bet though.

Talking of betting, does anyone know if Dan Lloyd actually put his each-way bet on Mollema at 400-1?


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## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Saw some decent odds this morning for Froome getting KOM if you fancy a wager!


Hmmm, 6/4 favourite in most of those^^^.


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## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

http://instagram.com/p/btvLzyE6JC/ 

Pic by Kristof Ramon, Ten Dam's blood pipes. Dam, Dam.


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## thom (16 Jul 2013)

Froome & Brailsford faced the press yesterday. 



If Wada has Sky's full training data and turned round to say, Sky are racing clean, would that be enough to stop the speculation ?


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Froome & Brailsford faced the press yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> If Wada has Sky's full training data and turned round to say, Sky are racing clean, would that be enough to stop the speculation ?



Speculation is the press's job and that won't stop. It would maybe go some way to more informed speculation. And just an impression I've been getting - very few current riders seem to be casting aspersions. It's riders from another era, journalists and disillusioned followers of cycling (who, let's face it, are entitled to be sceptical).

EDIT: A wee grammatical touch up, that's all!


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## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Froome & Brailsford faced the press yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> If Wada has Sky's full training data and turned round to say, Sky are racing clean, would that be enough to stop the speculation ?




No.

Because it's impossible to draw a definitive conclusion to that effect from power data.


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## Beebo (16 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> http://instagram.com/p/btvLzyE6JC/
> 
> Pic by Kristof Ramon, Ten Dam's blood pipes. Dam, Dam.


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


>


It's only tendamitis!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Froome & Brailsford faced the press yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> If Wada has Sky's full training data and turned round to say, Sky are racing clean, would that be enough to stop the speculation ?



He's basically playing santa 6 months early. Write a list for me boys and girls - but you might not get all you asked for. The sleigh only carries so much.


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## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

Got be a breakaway today hasn't it? Short enough and difficult enough to stay away but not hard enough to attract the GC'ers.

Was it not the descent into Gap where we had chaingate with Contador and Schleck all those micro-years ago?


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

OK, predictions for today's stage?

Sensible money would probably be on one of the OGE boys - Gerrans or Albasini - or someone like Gilbert, if he can stay in touch over the final climb. Maybe even Sagan.

I'm going out on a limb again for this one: Romain Bardet.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Got be a breakaway today hasn't it? Short enough and difficult enough to stay away but not hard enough to attract the GC'ers.


 
I was thinking not. They've had a rest day, they've got the TT tomorrow. They might not be feeling charitable enough to allow the inevitable breakaway to succeed. I suppose it partly depends on who gets into the group - with opportunities for stage wins running out, any teams who miss the cut will be keen to chase it down.


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## thom (16 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Speculation is the press's job and that won't stop. It would maybe go some way to more informed speculation. And just an impression I've been getting - very few current riders seem to casting aspersions. It's riders from another era, journalists and disillusioned followers of cycling (who, let's face it, are entitled to be sceptical).


 
But Brailsford's question about what he do to make the press less sceptical is reasonable is it not ? He is responding to people who spoke about having access to power data and opening up the full training data to Wada as a trusted expert (not just power data).

What else could Sky do ? They allow Walsh an access all areas pass, they have no ex-riders leaving and testing positive, no rumours from people on the inside.

In asking the same pointed question "Are you cheating Chris ?", are the journalists doing a good job ? If they represent the cycling fan who wants to understand whether to trust their eye(brow)s..., shouldn't they try to at least engage with Sky on this ?


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## Herzog (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> OK, predictions for today's stage?
> 
> Sensible money would probably be on one of the OGE boys - Gerrans or Albasini - or someone like Gilbert, if he can stay in touch over the final climb. Maybe even Sagan.
> 
> I'm going out on a limb again for this one: Romain Bardet.


 

I think a little tough for Gilbert today... Albasini has looked pretty active so far, so my money (not that I'm a betting man) is on him!


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## thom (16 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> He's basically playing santa 6 months early. Write a list for me boys and girls - but you might not get all you asked for. The sleigh only carries so much.


How do you know ? That is just pure prejudice - you have no idea how Sky will behave. Can you think of one thing that they offered in the past that they did not follow through on ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> How do you know ? That is just pure prejudice - you have no idea how Sky will behave. Can you think of one thing that they offered in the past that they did not follow through on ?


Just speculating like everyone else thom 

What are the options? Open the doors to all who wish to have a look, or control what information you give out by relying on a group of journos(who will fault find and compare to Armstrong anyway) to request it specifically?

I can't help but think it's easier to answer questions when you have time to collate information/data and/or think about the answer, that is not what the environment of a press conference really offers. Especially when taking questions from the floor.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Can you think of one thing that they offered in the past that they did not follow through on ?


 
A genuine contender in the one-day classics.


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## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I was thinking not. They've had a rest day, they've got the TT tomorrow. They might not be feeling charitable enough to allow the inevitable breakaway to succeed. I suppose it partly depends on who gets into the group - with opportunities for stage wins running out, any teams who miss the cut will be keen to chase it down.


 
I was thinking a French rider today, Gautier or someone like that but definitely a couple of wild card riders.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I was thinking a French rider today, Gautier or someone like that but definitely a couple of wild card riders.


 
Gautier is a good call. I also had in mind Wout Poels.


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## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Gautier is a good call. I also had in mind Wout Poels.


Yeah, good call, any Vacansoleil rider will be looking to draw attention to themselves.

You realize we've put the kiss of death on all of them now though.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> You realize we've put the kiss of death on all of them now though.


 
We can use that as an excuse when they fail to deliver.


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> But Brailsford's question about what he do to make the press less sceptical is reasonable is it not ? He is responding to people who spoke about having access to power data and opening up the full training data to Wada as a trusted expert (not just power data).
> 
> What else could Sky do ? They allow Walsh an access all areas pass, they have no ex-riders leaving and testing positive, no rumours from people on the inside.
> 
> In asking the same pointed question "Are you cheating Chris ?", are the journalists doing a good job ? If they represent the cycling fan who wants to understand whether to trust their eye(brow)s..., shouldn't they try to at least engage with Sky on this ?


I welcome Brailsford knocking the ball back into the journalists' camp. We'll have to wait and see what the press lobs back.


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## thom (16 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Just speculating like everyone else thom
> 
> What are the options? Open the doors to all who wish to have a look, or control what information you give out by relying on a group of journos(who will fault find and compare to Armstrong anyway) to request it specifically?
> 
> I see a bit more control over information with the latter. Not that I'm suggesting SKY are hiding anything.


To move forward in cycling does require investigative journalists to ask tough questions but it can be helped by them trying to engage and construct something more than just reduced to slinging mud.
These press conferences for Froome must feel like a form of torture - every day the riders put themselves through hell on a bike and then they are sat in front of the glare of the world's media and are offered up the same accusation of cheating and lies. It isn't very imaginative is it ? I actually think the UCI have a role here to step in and mediate in a sense - cycling's image continues to suffer while very valid questions are asked that as yet the sport has not found a way to address. Brailsford seems to be giving more leadership than the UCI...


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## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Yeah, good call, any Vacansoleil rider will be looking to draw attention to themselves.
> 
> You realize we've put the kiss of death on all of them now though.


 
I've been waiting for Vanmarcke and Hansen to have a go. Scanning the week to come, I reckon today's their last reasonable chance...


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## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

Pinot and Von Poppel withdraw.


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## raindog (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I was thinking a French rider today,


I fear we could finish this Tour without a French win. I wish Moncoutier was still riding - I miss that lad.


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2013)

It sounds like the break is slowly converting itself into the front peloton, with another 12 joining the 20 at the start and others trying to cross the gap.


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## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> How do you know ? That is just pure prejudice - you have no idea how Sky will behave. Can you think of one thing that they offered in the past that they did not follow through on ?


 

I remember a couple of years ago now Brailsford said he would invite anyone interested to a presentation evening in Manchester to explain all their methods, show that they were doing it clean etc etc. Still waiting. He is in an impossible position though,


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## Slaav (16 Jul 2013)

If Sky go completely transparent, are they not showing everyone (including their competitors) how they do it? As in what small things they tweak to give those 1% uplifts etc?

I know this sounds possibly simple but come on, would any top level sports team show their competition everything?????


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## thom (16 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I remember a couple of years ago now Brailsford said he would invite anyone interested to a presentation evening in Manchester to explain all their methods, show that they were doing it clean etc etc. Still waiting. He is in an impossible position though,


I think the press have been to Manchester - perhaps not as a one of event but many have been individually and not just once.


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## Slaav (16 Jul 2013)

And back on the race , have I seen it correctly that there are two of DIrty Bertie's team mates in the breakaway and one more trying to join them? Have we not seen this before????


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## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I remember a couple of years ago now Brailsford said he would invite anyone interested to a presentation evening in Manchester to explain all their methods, show that they were doing it clean etc etc. Still waiting. He is in an impossible position though,


 
I think Brailsford has realized he's not going to convince all the sceptics, coupled with not wanting to give away too much about their training methods or get involved with half-ass committments which carry no real weight etc...

He's right. You will never convince people who leave comments in comments sections. Come the revolution, comment leavers will be third against the wall after bankers and politicians.


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## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2013)

Can't prove a negative can you.

The only way is an independent arbiter given 24/7 unrestricted access to the riders and training camps in the year between the end of one tour and the start of another.

Or Froome wears a camera on his head like Gaz for 1 year.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Or Froome wears a camera on his head like Gaz for 1 year.


This week on Media Cars Behaving Erratically : Johnny Hoogerland is on the wrong side of the wire


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## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

And even if WADA saw everything and called no foul play, you wouldn't stop the people claiming use of undetectable wonder drugs. 

I think because I believe Wiggins is clean, I have to extend that to all of Sky, but it is hard to know what to believe when the field is still riddled with convicted dopers.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Got be a breakaway today hasn't it? Short enough and difficult enough to stay away but not hard enough to attract the GC'ers.
> 
> Was it not the descent into Gap where we had chaingate with Contador and Schleck all those micro-years ago?


 No, that was Port de Bales in the Pyrenees!
I believe this was where Armstrong did the cyclocross to avoid the prostrate Belkin.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I was thinking a French rider today, Gautier or someone like that but definitely a couple of wild card riders.


Just heard them say on Eurosport that the best result by a Frenchman in this race is 5th place by William Bonnet!!!


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> No, that was Port de Bales in the Pyrenees!
> I believe this was where Armstrong did the cyclocross to avoid the prostrate Belkin.


ah so it was. Belkin: Are you sure?


----------



## Herzog (16 Jul 2013)

Andy Schleck mark II?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pin...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0


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## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> ah so it was. Belkin: Are you sure?


Whoops - Beltran!!!!?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Beloki!!!


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

beltup


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## Herzog (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> beltup


 
Bit early for the red wine isn't it


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

I knew you'd get there.

Beltran might have fallen off as he's a baseball player for the St. Louis Cardinals so probably can't descend.

Meanwhile, that breakaway is looking good.


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Andy Schleck mark II?
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pin...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0


 
It's been discussed already, but we have received clear guidance that he's not to be laughed at, as he's confessed his ineptitude and feels bad. Unlike Wiggo who has not confessed and presumably didn't feel bad.


----------



## Herzog (16 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> It's been discussed already, but we have received clear guidance that he's not to be laughed at, as he's confessed his ineptitude and feels bad. Unlike Wiggo who has not confessed and presumably didn't feel bad.


 

I can empathize, after breaking my femur on a descent (Beloki style), I'll be a little nervous when descending in the future.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I knew you'd get there.
> 
> Beltran might have fallen off as he's a baseball player for the St. Louis Cardinals so probably can't descend.
> 
> Meanwhile, that breakaway is looking good.


In my defence, ahem!


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

That's some breakaway today. I was going to claim foresight with Hansen, but pretty much anyone you might have guessed at today is in that group. Odds on to stay away surely.


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> I can empathize, after breaking my femur on a descent (Beloki style), I'll be a little nervous when descending in the future.


 
How's the mending process going BTW?


----------



## Herzog (16 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> How's the mending process going BTW?


 

Not too bad, been getting on the bike a little bit in the last few weeks (8 weeks since accident). Supposed to avoid any hills, which is pretty hard around here. Looking forward to starting the training for next year in earnest soon!!

Thanks for asking!


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> In other news, I have an interesting and unusual fact to inform you lot about that may well have escaped your attention.
> Cofidis and Lampre are both in this years race. I bet none of you had noticed that - no need to thank me for my tireless, dogged research on your behalf.


Oh yeah.. Lampre is here alright, Cunego put in a great effort some days ago... trying to make the jump from the peloton to the breakaway (when they already had 3m30 time ahead) together with Johnny... and being dropped by him on a 3rd category climb
Great and smart piece of racing there 


On another note... there is a guy in a green jersey riding in today's breakaway, who is pulling the strangest of faces whenever the camera is close... why, have I not seen this interesting looking character in this Tour yet?


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

The break assisted by French Rail


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## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> If Sky go completely transparent, are they not showing everyone (including their competitors) how they do it? As in what small things they tweak to give those 1% uplifts etc?
> 
> I know this sounds possibly simple but come on, would any top level sports team show their competition everything?????


 
I read a description of some of the stuff that they did for the track cycling minimal gains, there was stuff like cleaning the tyres on the start line to avoid traction loss from dust gathered wheeling the bike to the line, insulated thigh straps to maintain muscle heat between getting off the warmup bikes and getting on to the track bike.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Cofidis are having a bit of a stinker of a Tour. They seem to have been completely anonymous so far. Navarro in 20th is their highest placed rider, 23m 36s behind Froome. Next best is Molard in 74th, 1h 28m off the pace.


 


rich p said:


> In other news, I have an interesting and unusual fact to inform you lot about that may well have escaped your attention.
> Cofidis and Lampre are both in this years race. I bet none of you had noticed that - no need to thank me for my tireless, dogged research on your behalf.


 
This just came up on the news ticker on the official TdF website:



> *Cannondale second in the prize money haul after 15 stages*
> The next-best team [after OPQS] in the prize money allotment thus far on Tour is Cannondale which has won a stage (Peter Sagan, in Albi) and had its leader in the green jersey since the end of stage two. It has 41,440 euros, then comes Sky with 40,950, Movistar with 38,000, Orica-GreenEdge with 36,410, Vacansoleil with 35,080...
> Cofidis remains the team with the least amount of prize money, just 4,530 euros.


 
It's going to be a meagre Christmas for the offspring of Cofidis riders this year.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

You probably get 4,530 euros for turning up with a bike.


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## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> You probably get 4,530 euros for turning up with a bike.


 
Wonder how much they'd get if they turned up without bikes? Could be a net gain for them.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

"@PhilippeGilbert: Contador have always his best day the day after the second rest day. So remake of 2011? Nice stage for offensive"

Ooooh!


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@PhilippeGilbert: Contador have always his best day the day after the second rest day. So remake of 2011? Nice stage for offensive"
> 
> Ooooh!


Ouch! Bof! and zut alors!


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> ...Vacansoleil with 35,080...


 
So, I guess the irratic cycling behaviour of De Gendt (and Hoogerland I assume) at least seems to bring some cash with it
- since they haven't got much of wins or jerseys to show for it-


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Wonder how much they'd get if they turned up without bikes? Could be a net gain for them.


IAM cycling would have doubled that for their place


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

By the way... if the peloton continues this pace Navarro (COFIDIS ) could easily end up in the GC top 15


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> IAM cycling would have doubled that for their place


 
Sure. Or NetApp. I was merely jesting. Still sore about putting Taaramae on my FL.


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> IAM cycling would have doubled that for their place


Vini Fantini would even have sacrificed two dopers for that place


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Vini Fantini would even have sacrificed two dopers for that place


 
Are we talking a ritual human sacrifice by full moon here?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Another interesting fact to liven up this stage...
the sadly uncelebrated Lanterne Rouge at present is
Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 'leading' by over a minute


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Vini Fantini would even have sacrificed two dopers for that place


I expecting Vaughters to sign up a repentant di Luca, Santambrogio and Sayer in a few years time.


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Are we talking a ritual human sacrifice by full moon here?


Spoiler alert for bad joke 

Wait for it....

Well, you're the only Vamp(ire) here


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Spoiler alert for bad joke
> 
> Wait for it....
> 
> Well, you're the only Vamp(ire) here


 
Why do you think I got all excited at the prospect?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Oh yeah.. Lampre is here alright, Cunego put in a great effort some days ago... trying to make the jump from the peloton to the breakaway (when they already had 3m30 time ahead) together with Johnny... and being dropped by him on a 3rd category climb
> Great and smart piece of racing there
> 
> 
> On another note... there is a guy in a green jersey riding in today's breakaway, who is pulling the strangest of faces whenever the camera is close... why, have I not seen this interesting looking character in this Tour yet?


How do we assume Tommy V only pulls faces when a camera is there ? Its a bit like the tree falls in the forest question.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> And even if WADA saw everything and called no foul play, you wouldn't stop the people claiming use of undetectable wonder drugs.
> 
> I think because I believe Wiggins is clean, I have to extend that to all of Sky, but it is hard to know what to believe when the field is still riddled with convicted dopers.


of course it could be that the team know nothing about it, look at the guy from Ag2R taking the diet supplement of his own back.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

Honey Badger for the stage win I think.


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

Gilbert has some nice descending credentials (but will he be able to hang on in the climb?  )


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2013)

Albasini for me. He's got something to prove.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Honey Badger for the stage win I think.


 
Yeah, the one day I don't mention him, he gets in the break... typical. He definitely has a chance.

I'm cheering for Kadri now.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Blel, such a lovely name. His sister is called Bleugh, I believe


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Voeckler is not the man he was


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Honey Badger for the stage win I think.


 


Flying_Monkey said:


> Albasini for me. He's got something to prove.


 

Well, that put the mockers on those two. 

Hansen still going well though.

Rui Costa looking dangerous too...


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

I forgot Rui Costa was there - he's the class rider


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

Don't count Tommy V out yet


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

Still... Costa was impressive in the descent in the TdS, so they need to catch him before the top


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

If Costa gets to the summit first, he's won this.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Don't count Tommy V out yet


 
And he's off!


----------



## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

j rod!


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> And he's off!


 
off the back?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Katusha have caused an unexpected split


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Ten Dam's blown!


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

What does Froome gain here for this expansion of energy. I'm not sure.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2013)

Contador goes !


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Katusha have caused an unexpected split


 
Purito looks like he fancies his chances of climbing a few places up the GC today.


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

ten Dam going backwards


----------



## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

Spain vs England


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

Ok... so the Evans era is gone, but at least Mollema is giving a very good impression


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2013)

Saxo I think are trying to break Mollema rather than Froome


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Porte and Froome only reacted, non?


----------



## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2013)

god i'm missing this


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

This is the Armstrong cross country descent?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

Not sure Bertie is doing himself any favours here


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Not sure Bertie is doing himself any favours here


He's doing us a favour though


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Porte and Froome only reacted, non?


 
Yup, responding rather than attacking. Contador clearly trying to nab Mollema's place.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

If Contador want s a podium spot he will be looking for time here, not really targeting Froome though.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

What's Mollema's descending like?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

I know Kreuziger has a bit of a history but he's impressive these days


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2013)

I hope the Cofidis guy gets 2nd !


----------



## lanternerouge (16 Jul 2013)

Under the kilometre to go banner!

Sorry, I just like it when they say that


----------



## The Couch (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> What's Mollema's descending like?


Not too great (at least not like Contador) but I don't have the feeling this is technical enough


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

I think Costa's happy


----------



## lanternerouge (16 Jul 2013)

Great ride by Rui Costa!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Was about to make some snarky comment about what a likeable fellow Rui Costa is, then I remembered I have him in my fantasty team...

Cheers!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

Late drama!


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

the race that keeps on giving


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

surprised kreuziger didn't drop back to assist


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

It was the wrong corner though. Have they got no sense of history.


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> surprised kreuziger didn't drop back to assist


 
He's such a loyal dom that I'm sure he's been told to stay put

There's drama in every stage this year!


----------



## MisterStan (16 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> Look theres no point this thread being a spoiler if you don't tell us what the "drama" is??!!!


 
At least the last few posts have actually been about the race, not doping.


----------



## VamP (16 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> Look theres no point this thread being a spoiler if you don't tell us what the "drama" is??!!!


 
That would be Froome and Contador very nearly crashing out, and having to chase the other GCs down the descent!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> Look theres no point this thread being a spoiler if you don't tell us what the "drama" is??!!!


 
Contador and Froome seemed to get tangled up with each other on a corner on the descent and were held up briefly. Mollema tried to press on but the Movistar boys seemed to slow things down a bit so they could catch up.


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2013)

Froome a bit worked up about Contador's descending


----------



## Basil.B (16 Jul 2013)

Wasn't that much of a drama!


----------



## Slaav (16 Jul 2013)

The way I saw it (Sky Go in the office ) was that Dirty Bertie was pushing a little too hard - Froome unfortunately was chasing/following brilliantly but thank the cycling Gods it was an overcooked hairpin by Bertie. He actually came off and Froome took evasive action onto teh verge managign to pull his right foot out just in time to avoid a spill. Bertie then starts moaning about a sore wrist when Froome pretty much told him to lead the chase back as it was his fault (it seems.)

Cracking TV again!!! AS someone above said, the race that keeps on giving 

ps - Porte played a blinder AGAIN!!!!!


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 Jul 2013)

I've ridden the second half of tomorrow's TT route, I think it will be a bit too lumpy for Tony Martin to win it, Froome has to be the favourite.


----------



## dragon72 (16 Jul 2013)

Contador was having a go at Quintana after his off, with a sarcastic thumbs up.


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Contador was having a go at Quintana after his off, with a sarcastic thumbs up.


So they say. If you're taking risks descending to distance Quintana and Mollema then you can hardly expect them to wait for you.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2013)

MisterStan said:


> At least the last few posts have actually been about the race, not doping.



Interesting that everyone wants to voice their "reasonable suspicion" over Froome but no one has anything to say about a convicted doper. 

Not that this is an invitation. I'd rather just leave the subject alone.


----------



## MisterStan (16 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Interesting that everyone wants to voice their "reasonable suspicion" over Froome but no one has anything to say about a convicted doper.
> 
> Not that this is an invitation. I'd rather just leave the subject alone.


Convicted dopers are old news! And that's all I have to say on the matter.


----------



## laurence (16 Jul 2013)

it was all a bit 'handbags at dawn' after the stage.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2013)

For the 2nd week in a row I have no TV coverage nor internet access...and you nobbers are worse than useless.at keeping me updated.


----------



## iLB (16 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> For the 2nd week in a row I have no TV coverage nor internet access...and you nobbers are worse than useless.at keeping me updated.


 
ooo er...


----------



## laurence (16 Jul 2013)

he wouldn't let it lie...

*"Chris Froome* ‏@*chrisfroome*  7m
Almost went over your head @*albertocontador*.. Little more care next time?"

meowwwwwwwwwwww


----------



## Peteaud (16 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> For the 2nd week in a row I have no TV coverage nor internet access...and you nobbers are worse than useless.at keeping me updated.


 

The bloke in the yellow top appears to be winning.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2013)

Next time Froomedawg will be a dot on the horizon for Dirty Bertie


----------



## Peteaud (16 Jul 2013)

Good old fashioned radio

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00cp89g


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> For the 2nd week in a row I have no TV coverage nor internet access...and you nobbers are worse than useless.at keeping me updated.


you need to get your priorites right mate.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> he wouldn't let it lie...
> 
> *"Chris Froome* ‏@*chrisfroome*  7m
> Almost went over your head @*albertocontador*.. Little more care next time?"
> ...


what, contador not following the script ? Trying to race ? Next thing someone will be attacking on a mountain stage, ffs.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Good old fashioned radio
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00cp89g


I dinnae even have a radio...


----------



## ColinJ (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Beloki!!!


Belated!


----------



## ColinJ (16 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> For the 2nd week in a row I have no TV coverage nor internet access...and you nobbers are worse than useless.at keeping me updated.


If you haven't got internet, how do you want us to keep you updated - send reports to you by SMS?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> If you haven't got internet, how do you want us to keep you updated - send reports to you by SMS?


I've written to him but it's in English so he may need to get a translator in.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2013)

@Noodley It's Tuesday 16th here. No need to thank me.


----------



## ColinJ (16 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I've written to him but it's in English so he may need to get a translator in.


I bumped into him in a car park in Hebden Bridge once and we managed to exchange a few words!


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I bumped into him in a car park in Hebden Bridge once and we managed to exchange a few words!


Nice one Colin, a bit of history!
This @Noodley quote is a bit disturbing though...
... _but my bits 'down there' suffered yet again_


----------



## Noodley (17 Jul 2013)

Saddle sore old chap. Not quite your recurring syphallis but inconvenient nonetheless.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

So, a 32km double lump ITT.
6.4km @ 6% and 6.9km @ 6.3%
I suppose I'll have to go with Froome but not by much from Quintana and Contador.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

And the weather forecast is for storms developing and intensifying from around 2pm (CET). Froome is set to depart at 16:33pm. This might well add a rather random element to the stage.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I dinnae even have a radio...



Just to update you on other news, Alex has dropped the vote on Scottish independence and now acknowledges Englandshire as the supreme and ultimate power, Bucky and deep-fried pizzas are banned by the EU and the Queen has used an ancient law to buy your house in exchange for a goat.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Jeez, I think I even preferred the doping discussion to talking about Noodley's saddle sores... 

Anyway, am I the only person in the whole world who didn't see Contador's thumbs up to Quintana as sarcastic? At the time, I thought the Movistar boys were just sitting on Mollema's wheel, not pressing on, so I took Contador's gesture as sincere...

But looking at it again, it's pretty clear he has the hump big time. 

Not sure what he thought were his grounds for having a go at Quintana though. Maybe it's a typical playground bully's reaction - the bigger boy (Froome) had a go at him, so he in turn picked on the smaller boy. 

He really ought to be more careful about getting into squabbles, given his history with beef. 

I'm also very much enjoying seeing Froome "coming over all Le Patronny", as CK put it. Taking on Contador verbally is a sign of real confidence in himself. Not only does he have panache, he has swagger too. 

I'd love to see him step it up, really get under Bertie's skin - "@chrisfroome: Oi, @albertocontador, you descend like a Schleck, you barbecue-loving clown!"


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So, a 32km double lump ITT.
> 6.4km @ 6% and 6.9km @ 6.3%
> I suppose I'll have to go with Froome but not by much from Quintana and Contador.


Froome is expected to be untouchable today... but maybe the weather may help (but that would be only for the stage, since GC contenders ofcourse all ride at the same time)

I would expect Peraud, Kwiatek, Meyer and Costa to do good in this one, but because of yesterday not quite sure if they still have the strength (or interest in Costa's case)

Counting on bad weather... I'm gonna spread my bet on Hesjedal, Boom or Westra (Chavanel starts too late and I don't wanna go for the obvious Tony Martin choice)


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Contador and Froome seemed to get tangled up with each other on a corner on the descent and were held up briefly. Mollema tried to press on but the Movistar boys seemed to slow things down a bit so they could catch up.


 
According to Kreuziger, it was actually Quintana who attacked after the Contador/Froome semi-off. Saxo are apparently quite sore about it.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> According to Kreuziger, it was actually Quintana who attacked after the Contador/Froome semi-off. Saxo are apparently quite sore about it.



Fair enough. It wasn't clear from the TV coverage. 

Andy Schleck must be looking on and laughing, muttering something quietly to himself about karma.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

At the time I didn't pick up the nuances of what was going on. On the replay I saw Bertie shaking his wrist as an excuse, when Froome invited him past in the chase back but I missed it all first time around.

Movistar need to be careful with this pressing on when people crash. They've already had their come 'uppence in a major way this tour but the lesson doesn't seem to have been learnt.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Does anyone know if Michelle has introduced herself to Mrs Bertie on twitter yet?


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Movistar need to be careful with this pressing on when people crash. They've already had their come 'uppence in a major way this tour but the lesson doesn't seem to have been learnt.



Always the ones who complain loudest when others dish out the same treatment to them, isn't it?


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Fair enough. It wasn't clear from the TV coverage.
> 
> Andy Schleck must be looking on and laughing, muttering something quietly to himself about karma.


 
I agree, I wasn't entirely sure what the thumbs up was about either until I read the Kreuziger interview.

Moving on to today, how does everyone think Mollema will do today? He looked pretty close to cracking yesterday.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> .... I'd love to see him step it up, really get under Bertie's skin - "@chrisfroome: Oi, @albertocontador, you descend like a Schleck, you barbecue-loving clown!"


Why don't go full throttle:
"@chrisfroome: Oi, @albertocontador, you descend like *Wiggo*, you barbecue-loving clown! Wait for the next climb, I'll show you!"



VamP said:


> According to Kreuziger, it was actually Quintana who attacked after the Contador/Froome semi-off. Saxo are apparently quite sore about it.


Funny, that (a lightweight like) Quintana believes he could have kept them away in the descent ... optimistic

Extra Comment:
We really missed a Contador-type of rider in last year's Tour (especially in week 1 and 2), he does make it much more worth tuning in
(Of course we also missed decent stages where climbers really had a chance in making some differences)


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> We really missed a Contador-type of rider in last year's Tour (especially in week 1 and 2), he does make it much more worth tuning in
> (Of course we also missed decent stages where climbers really had a chance in making some differences)


 
I agree, Contador is really making the Tour for me this year.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I agree, I wasn't entirely sure what the thumbs up was about either until I read the Kreuziger interview.
> 
> Moving on to today, how does everyone think Mollema will do today? He looked pretty close to cracking yesterday.


Probably will be eating his steering bar the whole time again...
but I don't see him loosing much (vs. other non-canine GC contenders), he was very good (for his TT skills) in the first TT and this one should suit him much more


----------



## iLB (17 Jul 2013)

I know I keep saying it, but J Rod is coming.








With such a technical course Froome might struggle to put in massive time (edit, although he has reconned the stage). If Sagan finds his climbing legs (tired or resting yesterday?) he could go well given his handling abilities. Should be an exciting TT, good chance of rain showers throughout the day.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Moving on to today, how does everyone think Mollema will do today? He looked pretty close to cracking yesterday.



Yeah, I'm starting to lose faith that he'll hold on to his podium spot for much longer. Shame.

Still, if he works on his time-trialling, he could be the new Evans. He may even win the Tour one day.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I know I keep saying it, but J Rod is coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The theory is that Froome's descending is only good if he's following a quality wheel. Hence why some expect him not to shine today. I'm not sure myself...

Personally I think Costa might do it again today.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Probably will be eating his steering bar the whole time again...
> but I don't see him loosing much (vs. other non-canine GC contenders), he was very good (for his TT skills) in the first TT and this one should suit him much more



Given that he climbs like Wiggo, this one should suit him nicely. But it should suit Contador too... it's going to be an interesting battle between those two today.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

He needs to be the old Evans, the new one is a bit sluggish. 

I thought Contador's pantomime acting yesterday was great fun.

Froome would be wiser to stay off the moaning/twittersphere. Fair enough to be upset straight after a close call, but rather petulant to be still on about it hours after the event.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

iLB said:


> I know I keep saying it, but J Rod is coming.


True, Purito is looking better every day... still today again he will loose a little bit of time I believe, but as long as he could stay within 3m - 3m30 of the podium, there is still enough climbing to go to make up for this


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

suzeworld said:


> Froome would be wiser to stay off the moaning/twittersphere. Fair enough to be upset straight after a close call, but rather petulant to be still on about it hours after the event.


And with the huge amount of press around... he probably already said it in about 30 interviews before that ... still, I never mind some stabbing to make it more interesting


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Personally I think Costa might do it again today.



Good call. Valverde could do well today too. 

I'll go for Thomas de Gendt.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> At the time I didn't pick up the nuances of what was going on. On the replay I saw Bertie shaking his wrist as an excuse, when Froome invited him past in the chase back but I missed it all first time around.
> 
> Movistar need to be careful with this pressing on when people crash. They've already had their come 'uppence in a major way this tour but the lesson doesn't seem to have been learnt.


I'm fairly certain I saw him shake his wrist earlier out of Froome's sight. He may well have had a hurty hand from his off. It didn't stop him shaping his hand for a sustained thumbs-up gesture later on, mind.

BTW, I thought Froome's dig at Contador's risk-taking was a bit rich, considering he was chasing to stay on Contador's wheel. ''He was driving so erratically, officer, I almost hit him as I tried to tailgate him...''


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> ...Andy Schleck must be looking on and laughing, muttering something quietly to himself about karma.


 
If he's one for karma, he must really have done some nasty stuff in the past to justify his current form...


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'll go for Thomas de Gendt.


Yeah, only caveat it that he might also have his mind set on Alpe d'Huez and have a stinker to save some energy (and was pretty knackered yesterday)


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

By the way, if the weather is truely going to get bad, Tony Martin might want to switch to a bike with "Intermediates" or "Full Wet" tyres when he changes bike


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> And with the huge amount of press around... he probably already said it in about 30 interviews before that ... still, I never mind some stabbing to make it more interesting



Y'know, I really think Froome might be deliberately trying to rile Contador, just to unsettle him. Proper Fergie style mind games. This stuff sounds more mischievous than petulant to me. 

He gets his girlfriend to do his moaning for him when he's really upset.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'll go for Thomas de Gendt.


 

Oh yeah. He should go well today.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

Commentators say Quintana odd not a great T T-er but he has a limit course and excellent motivation today. I am cheering for him today!


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Y'know, I really think Froome might be deliberately trying to rile Contador, just to unsettle him. Proper Fergie style mind games. This stuff sounds more mischievous than petulant.


 
Ah, maybe so, he seems quite bright, but he did look wound up in the last few kms yesterday.


----------



## Beebo (17 Jul 2013)

In the post race interviews yesterday, Richie Porte said he will just coast round the TT course and Froome intimated that he will do only what is necessary and nothing more. They are saving themselves for the big one tomorrow.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

Contador can act for the camera bike !

I agree about Froome not needing to be so close, how much time could Bertie have taken out of him in that little stretch? Froome was being too proud to let him get any... And we all know that pride comes before a .........


----------



## MisterStan (17 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> I think its a mind games thing - Froomes not wanting to show Bertie an inch of weakness in the hope he will snap and give up eventually?


 
Posturing? AKA willy waving!


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Another interesting fact to liven up this stage...
> the sadly uncelebrated Lanterne Rouge at present is
> Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 'leading' by over a minute


He wasn't the Lantern Rouge yet/anylonger this morning, but it seems he's giving it a good effort now 
Funny note: Bazayev was last in previous TT, this time he is (so far) faster than the TT expert Tuft...
I expect Tuft to have some difficulties in the coming days surviving the mountains

EDIT: and if Veelers continues this pace, he might have difficulties surviving today (3 min behind Hivert after 14Km)


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> ... I would expect *Peraud*, Kwiatek, Meyer and Costa to do good in this one, but because of yesterday not quite sure if they still have the strength (or interest in Costa's case)


Peraud fell during recon of the stage and is off to the hospital... so not only yesterday's performance might do him in


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Maybe Kittel should start riding all mountain stages on his own like they are TT... impressive time for a big sprinter like him


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Peraud fell during recon of the stage and is off to the hospital... so not only yesterday's performance might do him in


 
I'm guessing the descents are pretty technical then!


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Curvers has made up over 2 minutes on Westra on that first descent. I think that's a great indication of how this TT will play out.

Edit: Scratch that, I must have been having a blonde moment.


----------



## ColinJ (17 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> BTW, I thought Froome's dig at Contador's risk-taking was a bit rich, considering he was chasing to stay on Contador's wheel. ''He was driving so erratically, officer, I almost hit him as I tried to tailgate him...''


Exactly! It is up to each individual rider to decide how many risks to take. Froome decided to risk staying with Contador who had decided that it was worth risking a crash, so what is there to complain about? If someone cut you up on a bend or crashed into you, that would be a different story.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Exactly! It is up to each individual rider to decide how many risks to take. Froome decided to risk staying with Contador who had decided that it was worth risking a crash, so what is there to complain about? If someone cut you up on a bend or crashed into you, that would be a different story.


 
I suspect it's just banter. Froome did wait for Contador after all.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Peraud fell during recon of the stage and is off to the hospital...


Apparently he has a fracture, but will continue.. can't see him staying in the top 10 with today and next 3 days ahead of him


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Counting on bad weather... I'm gonna spread my bet on Hesjedal, Boom or Westra (Chavanel starts too late and I don't wanna go for the obvious Tony Martin choice)


 
Westra isn't looking too shabby (but I assume won't be good enough), Boom is definitely out of it


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Probably already posted, but this is a great site for following the TT for those that can't stream video at work

http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/us/live/aso/


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

Just wondering about the thumbs up....

I know unwritten rules say dont attack a mechanical. But conti crashed being a nobber, why should anyone wait for him? Any unwritten rules on that?


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Just wondering about the thumbs up....
> 
> I know unwritten rules say dont attack a mechanical. But conti crashed being a nobber, why should anyone wait for him? Any unwritten rules on that?


 
How does being aggressive on descent equal being a nobber?


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

The last part might be a real hurt for Quintana and Rodriguez (and perhaps Mollema), looking at the differences between the 3rd time point and the finish, the "climber"types really loose still quite some time versus the TT specialists

EDIT: so far can't see any bad weather yet


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I'll go for Thomas de Gendt.


 
Fastest so far at the first three time checks! 

Bizarrely, Taaramae is doing OK so far as well - I nearly said earlier that this might have been the stage he was saving himself for, but it would have been purely in jest.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Fastest so far at the first three time checks!
> 
> Bizarrely, Taaramae is doing OK so far as well - I nearly said earlier that this might have been the stage he was saving himself for, but it would have been purely in jest.


 He's just finished behind Westra.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Fastest so far at the first three time checks!
> 
> Bizarrely, Taaramae is doing OK so far as well - I nearly said earlier that this might have been the stage he was saving himself for, but it would have been purely in jest.


 
hmm.

13 seconds ahead of my _bette noir_ at CP3.

Is the world going mad?


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Useless French idiot.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> How does being aggressive on descent equal being a nobber?


Not really the point of my post, but crashing when cant handle the speed.....

The point was what was wrong?


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> He's just finished behind Westra.


 
Westra has paced well as evidenced by his blistering final 12 km.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Not really the point of my post, but crashing when cant handle the speed.....
> 
> The point was what was wrong?


 
It's not the done thing. Quintana has now apologised.

Edit: It is the point TBH that when inferring that riding on the limit in a race is somehow stupid or irresponsible, you get pulled up on it.


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

Anyone know the cut-off computation for today's TT ? 10%,20% ? There are already a couple of riders around the 15% mark...


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> It's not the done thing. Quintana has now apologised.


 
But why? It was his fault he fell off... I wouldnt wait.

Mechanical is not your fault but crashing by pushing to hard should be punished imv


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> But why? It was his fault he fell off... I wouldnt wait.
> 
> Mechanical is not your fault but crashing by pushing to hard should be punished imv


 
That's your view.

Generations of cycle racers have a different view.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> That's your view.
> 
> Generations of cycle racers have a different view.


 
No one waited for wiggo at giro... whats the difference?


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> But why? It was his fault he fell off... I wouldnt wait.
> 
> Mechanical is not your fault but crashing by pushing to hard should be punished imv


I thought Contador's point was, he didn't wait for the yellow jersey. Either way, it's one of those unwritten things which might come back to haunt you and in Movistars case, has.


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2013)

Peraud actually fractured his collar bone in that crash this morning, but will be at the start. Whether or not he gets very far, is another matter.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> No one waited for wiggo at giro... whats the difference?


 
Wiggins was not in pink.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Movistar, Contador and chaingate all have previous so I find it all pretty funny. Froome came out of it rther well too.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

This Tour continues to throw up surprises: Taaramae second at the finish!

I think I need to go and have a lie down.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

He should market some new aero bars called Rein Drops.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Wiggins was not in pink.


 
So just to clear it up, contador was annoyed that quintana didnt wait for contadors biggest rival?

@Crackle thanks for clearing up about leader


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Interestingly most riders are on road bikes today. Westra being a notable exception.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> So just to clear it up, contador was annoyed that quintana didnt wait for contadors biggest rival?
> 
> @Crackle thanks for clearing up about leader


 
There's this funny thing called tradition. Some choose to ignore it. Or ignore it when it suits them. Quintana has apologized for the attack - that should probably tell you all you need to know. Froome waited for Contador. That says a lot too.


----------



## Rob3rt (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> But why? It was his fault he fell off... I wouldnt wait.
> 
> Mechanical is not your fault but crashing by pushing to hard should be punished imv


 

There is no rule to say you can't attack or indeed carry on if one of the GC's or race leaders crash or have a mechanical, however there is such thing as peloton etiquette and it is not the done thing and doing so will not win you any favours!


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Westra has paced well as evidenced by his blistering final 12 km.


So far it's looking that way


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Izaguirre - I hadn't considered him to be honest!


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> There is no rule to say you can't attack or indeed carry on if one of the GC's or race leaders crash or have a mechanical, however there is such thing as peloton etiquette and it is not the done thing and doing so will not win you any favours!



Fair enough, Eurosport commentators both just said nothing wrong yesterday...

Quintana apparently said contador was upset about contact with Quintana just after he crashed???


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> So far it's looking that way


 
Actually now it seems it was his bike choice that made him relatively faster on the last 12.

Izaguirre apparently changed bikes on top of second hill. Looks like the winning strategy.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Fair enough, Eurosport commentators both just said nothing wrong yesterday...


 
I just heard that. Nobbers.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Tejay going well. No pictures at the moment... is he on a TT bike?


----------



## iLB (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Actually now it seems it was his bike choice that made him relatively faster on the last 12.
> 
> Izaguirre apparently changed bikes on top of second hill. Looks like the winning strategy.


 

Think that is the plan for Froome, road bike to top of second climb- then swap to TT bike. Could see a lot of people doing it.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Just read that Tejay is on a road bike with clip-ons. Wonder if he'll change for the last section...


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

"@stephenfarrand: Italian TV saying Alpe d'Huez stage will finish after first climb in case of rain. Peschaux of ASO refused to confirm it to them."

Hmmmm.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Apparently there is now rain on parts of the course...


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Anyone know the cut-off computation for today's TT ? 10%,20% ? There are already a couple of riders around the 15% mark...


I think it's 25% so no one should feel scared... which is weird because most riders were quite afraid before hand


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

That descent off the first climb is a real tester and just a bit scary


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Teejay leads


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Izaguirre - I hadn't considered him to be honest!


I don't think many people think about Euskaltel when talking TT 
Still... my Westra guess is down the drain

And just now... Tejay is blowing even Izaguirre away


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Teejay leads


 
Who would've thunk it?

Edit: who'd bet against this being the winning time given the worsening conditions out there now?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

blimey -heavy rain


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Who would've thunk it?


I suppose he's fresh, having done naff all so far!


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

And looking at the descent of Jeanneson, Tejay might have been the last one in with a decent time


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2013)

suzeworld said:


> Froome would be wiser to stay off the moaning/twittersphere. Fair enough to be upset straight after a close call, but rather petulant to be still on about it hours after the event.


 
+1


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I suppose he's fresh, having done naff all so far!


 
He's been saving himself


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> blimey -heavy rain


 
Oooh. Shame Nibali isn't at the Tour...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

I hope Porte soft pedals this one in light of what's to come


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I hope Porte soft pedals this one in light of what's to come


 
He's already said he plans to. Of course, his idea of soft-pedalling isn't quite the same as mine...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

I bet Pinot is glad he went home!


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's already said he plans to. Of course, his idea of soft-pedalling isn't quite the same as mine...


They should show him some live images of Rolland how to soft-pedal


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Andy Schleck about to set off. On a time trial. With a technical descent. In the wet.

This should be fun.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

They just got the question on ES: "Should we be expecting anything from A. Schleck today?"

Strangely they didn't answer:"Well, we'll get to see some great superslowmo images in real time"


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

A downhill race in the wet with AndyS. Thibaut and Wiggo. Who's your money on?


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> A downhill race in the wet with AndyS. Thibaut and Wiggo. Who's your money on?


The road!


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> A downhill race in the wet with AndyS. Thibaut and Wiggo. Who's your money on?


To crash first?


----------



## Beebo (17 Jul 2013)

BBC reporting that Froome has signed a Sky contract until 2016.

where does that leave Wiggins?


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


> BBC reporting that Froome has signed a Sky contract until 2016.
> 
> where does that leave Wiggins?


On the outside looking in


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

Nice to see Péraud warming up. You wouldn't get Wayne Rooney or Usain Bolt performing with a broken clavicle (not a totally fair comparison I know).


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Well... Rolland will have full strength for an escape tomorrow (and the day after)


----------



## MisterStan (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Andy Schleck about to set off. On a time trial. With a technical descent. In the wet.
> 
> This should be fun.


 
A contender to finish outside the allotted time?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Andy S is faster than Teejay at CP1!!!!!
Do you think....


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> A downhill race in the wet with AndyS. Thibaut and Wiggo. Who's your money on?


 

Wouldn't want to be Schleck's laundry woman/man tonight!


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> A downhill race in the wet with AndyS. Thibaut and Wiggo. Who's your money on?


 


The Couch said:


> To crash first?


 
Pierre Rolland


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

Itv4 just said a.schleck is pretty good down hill....


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Andy S is faster than Teejay at CP1!!!!!
> Do you think....


See my entry in the Sherwitt thread...


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Itv4 just said a.schleck is pretty good down hill....


 
They're geniuses over there...


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Pierre Rolland


Not at the speed he was going today


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

Enjoying the amateur weather forecasting most of all, ATM. 
Definitely reckon that sort of patchy rain could throw a spanner in the works ...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Cadel Evans not looking good after first time check


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Now I know what happened... they must have switched Evans and Schleck transponders


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

"@millarmind: I'm not sure if wet descents are enough to stop @chrisfroome from winning this TT. I spent much more time climbing than descending!"


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

Schleck moves from 4th to 28th at the 2nd check


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Schleck moves from 4th to 28th at the 2nd check


Phew, normal service resumed


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Valverde smashes the first time check


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

It's not the first uphill leg people will be losing time on, it's the descents...


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

@inrng: Helicopters and TV following Cadel Evans but he's 128th at the first time check, as fast as André Greipel

Doh!


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Peraud not looking at all happy.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Valverde still fast at the bottom of the first hill


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Peraud not looking at all happy.


 
In TT position, so not at death's door. He may get through today, but the next THREE are nasty!


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

oh oh - the spit monster is underway


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> oh oh - the spit monster is underway


 
Hoping for a terrible performance from LTD...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> @inrng: Helicopters and TV following Cadel Evans but he's 128th at the first time check, as fast as André Greipel
> 
> Doh!


 
146th at the second time check now, Cav is currently in 136th, it will be a shocker if he is slower than him


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Quintana didn't even bother with clip-on


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Hoping for a terrible performance from LTD...


 
Anyone would think you bare a grudge against him.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

ITV offering no more ad breaks till froome finishes.
Good. I could strangle Parkinson.. Though those wi-wotsit ads have grown on me!

On the last time trial last year I was standing opposite the Sky bus while they all warmed up... < memory lane moment >

Will Froome do as well?
Valverde is doing really well ATM, though time checks seem less reliable than they usually are.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Mollema is off (and currently with his head still up and far away from his steering bar)


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Schleck 3rd!?


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

Actually, think that might be where I took my icon photo......

Froome set to go ......


----------



## MisterStan (17 Jul 2013)

What is going on with Evans? 157th at the 3rd check? Has he forgotten how to ride?


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

Valverde has had his three shredded wheat this morning.

Schleck 3rd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (with apologies to Keith Oates)


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Schleck 3rd!?


 
He really is! ATM.... Amazing.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

@millarmind: Holy (poop) did somebody use the Men In Black memory wiper thing on Peraud after his crash this morning?! He's descending like a lunatic.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Somebody pinch me...


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

That road has dried out fast, hasn't it?


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Now Purito is on a gallop!


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

it has. Contador fastest at the timecheck. Damn.

Cadel Evans had has an absolute stinker. 154th


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Wow, Valverde has totally smashed it.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> 146th at the second time check now, Cav is currently in 136th, it will be a shocker if he is slower than him


 
SHOCKER!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Has Cadel Evans got a tooth abscess - his face is all asymmetric ? Might explain his time too.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> it has. Contador fastest at the timecheck. Damn.
> 
> Cadel Evans had has an absolute stinker. 154th


 

Contador has put over a minute into Mollema on the first hill!


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)




----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Contador has put over a minute into Mollema on the first hill!


Yep, not looking good for Mollema


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

Mollema going down the GC big time by tonight, he could be in the shoot tomorrow.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger quickest at 2nd check. Mollema could be out of the top three by tonight.


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

Peraud is showing plenty rule 5


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Rodriguez on the TTOHL


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Quintana could lose a chunk too


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Kwiat has nailed it! Kinda under the radar too.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Froome descending IS a weakness.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Quintana could lose a chunk too


 
And the white jersey... though probably only temporarily.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

How soon before Froome catches Mollema?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Froome 20s down on AC at CP2


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Froome descending IS a weakness.


Yes, he was looking pretty slow on that 1st descent. TV says he's lost 20" on AC - but I'll believe that when I see it somewhere else.

EDIT Ok, I believe it now...


----------



## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

Ten Dam's such a beast!! 
Go on fella - will be reviewing your Strava ride later


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Quintana times look weird or is it me


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Yes, he was looking pretty slow on that 1st descent. TV says he's lost 20" on AC - but I'll believe that when I see it somewhere else.


 
He's 12 seconds down on Kreuziger at CP 2 as well


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> Ten Dam's such a beast!!
> Go on fella - will be reviewing your Strava ride later


 
Better get in quick before Herzog reports it.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Péraud has crashed again!


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

24 secs down to Kwiat to 50 secs up


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> 24 secs down to Kwiat to 50 secs up


 
Pardon??


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

I think he's saying Quintana went up the second climb very quickly.


----------



## iLB (17 Jul 2013)




----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

Guessing Péraud is out...car went past with no rider.


----------



## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

Way to go J-Rod


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

bertie has lost time relative to purito - only 6 secs up now


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger and Contador staying on road bikes all the way.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger still on his road bike for the last leg. He might be regretting that soon


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Froome 11 secs down, but he changed his bike


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Guessing Péraud is out...car went past with no rider.


Yep, he crashed on the same descent.


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

interesting tactic - Froome changes bike before the summit. One imagines the Brailsford supercomputer spewing numbers......

In other shock news - LTD banned for unspeakable facial hair.

ooohhhhh! they've just shown the Peraud crash.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Froome 11 secs down, but he changed his bike


Yeah, Froome looking like he has best chances to beat Purito


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

We might see Quintana in 4th tonight!


----------



## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

Rain on the camera is now sweat from the crowd...apparently...according to Ligget!


----------



## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

Ouch


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

OMG - just shown Perauds fall


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

omg - replay of Peraud's fall is shocking - nasty fall on the same broken shoulder - hope he is ok


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Quite a comeback for Quintana!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2013)

Ouch!


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> omg - replay of Peraud's fall is shocking - nasty fall on the same broken shoulder - hope he is ok


 
I feel a bit sick after watching that.


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

Contador made that corner look like a breeze


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Bugger. Bertie has beaten Purito


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I feel a bit sick after watching that.


the corner just looked slightly damp - if the wheel was slipping form under him on that right hander, he'd have tried to stay upright by pulling on his already crocked right arm, before landing on it... 

Come on Chris - stuff the stage win - just stay upright


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

bad time for a shower innit - go easy Chris


----------



## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

Wincing just watching Froome on the white lines


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Contador made that corner look like a breeze


He kept well to the right.

ps. Unlike Mollema....


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Peraud is showing plenty rule 5


Not no more. Ooowww


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

would Sky have spotters out on the road to advise on particular corners?


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Heavens open specially for Froome on the final descent... he's taking it cautiously and losing lots of time now...


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

Mollema runs out of road!


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

mollema on the rivet!!


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Mollema the biggest loser today.


----------



## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

Get in there!!


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Blimey!!!


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

Wowsers - Chris Froome - untouchable


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

FROOOOOOOOOOOME!


----------



## The Couch (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> *Evans* the biggest loser today.


FTFY


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Saxo got their bike strategy wrong big time.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2013)

Fecking get in!


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

Froome wins. Contador's mouth looks like a cat's arse!


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

Go on Catweasel!


----------



## tug benson (17 Jul 2013)

Offt take that Bertie


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> FTFY


 
Evans didn't have anything to lose.


----------



## fossyant (17 Jul 2013)

Or slapped with a raw steak.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2013)

wow!


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Froome now has more stage wins than Cav.


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

Seriously, if Froome hangs on to win this thing, this has to be the best performance by a GB cyclist ever.

The Ventoux performance has to be the best individual TdF stage I've seen by a GB rider - different to Cav's iconic wins on the Champs Elysee but really really special.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

got to wonder how big a lead he would have had without a sloppy bike change and maybe a bit less rain, chapeau.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (17 Jul 2013)

Chapeau Mr Froome!


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

Bertie lost that by sticking with the road bike. It had to be worth 20 secs plus.


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2013)

The whole thing is becoming surrealistic though. Cedric Vasseur just described Froome as a "pure rouleur" but how can a "pure rouleur" thrash the best climbers in the world?


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> The whole thing is becoming surrealistic though. Cedric Vasseur just described Froome as a "pure rouleur" but how can a "pure rouleur" thrash the best climbers in the world?


Vasseur is talking shite? Froome has been one of best climbers for last 2 years.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

Three stages to go... can Quintana make up two and a half minutes on Contador?


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Three stages to go... can Quintana make up two and a half minutes on Contador?


 
No but he can beat Kreuziger. I hope not as Kreuziger on the podium would be a historic first for Czech cycling.


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Three stages to go... can Quintana make up two and a half minutes on Contador?


Possibly - More likely Contador can _lose_ that if he gambles big and blows up.

Tomorrow may be truly epic. Again...


----------



## festival (17 Jul 2013)

I like this Mr Froome !


----------



## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

Will there be a French stage winner at all this Tour ?


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Vasseur is talking s***e? Froome has been one of best climbers for last 2 years.


but he also got Olympic bronze in the ITT just behind Martin.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Will there be a French stage winner at all this Tour ?


 
Nope


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Will there be a French stage winner at all this Tour ?


no


----------



## jdtate101 (17 Jul 2013)

Anyone else wonder where Contador's sudden revival of form has come from? He was dropped relatively quickly once the pace went up on AX3 and Ventoux, yet now steams the TT?
I only say this as people were very quick to point the finger at Froome over doping, yet this should be equally suspicious and treated with the same level of scrutiny. In previous days (read Armstrong days) this would be a huge red flag of a Blood Bag done on the rest day!!!

It would seem double standards not to equally question this result by Contador.


----------



## Basil.B (17 Jul 2013)

Hope Froome cracks soon!
Riding like Superman at the moment.


----------



## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

Revival of form? Really?

I'm giving Contador exactly the same benefit of doubt as I am giving Froome. Both clean until shown otherwise.

But there is definitely a difference between failing to respond to an attack, and riding a consistent power delivery in a TT, so I'm not seeing any inconsistency TBH.


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> but he also got Olympic bronze in the ITT just behind Martin.


Yes he did. He is probably top 5 TT'er and top 3 climber (top 1 climber last 2 weeks). I think Contador, J rod and Valverde are all improving as the tour goes on, and it will be harder for Sky to burn them all with the train. Tomorrow could be absolute carnage from the off.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I'm giving Contador exactly the same benefit of doubt as I am giving Froome. Both clean until shown otherwise.


 
I suspect jdtate is merely being mischievous to highlight the lack of comment from the "reasonable suspicion" brigade.


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

Cycling News reporting that Movistar are gonna sign Quintana's little brother. I hope they won't ride like the schlecks.


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## thom (17 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Cycling News reporting that Movistar are gonna sign Quintana's little brother. I hope they won't ride like the schlecks.


Is it possible to be smaller than Quintana senior ?


----------



## jdtate101 (17 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I suspect jdtate is merely being mischievous to highlight the lack of comment from the "reasonable suspicion" brigade.


 

Yep, that was my point.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Yep, that was my point.


he did not quite blow everyone else away really, he just seems to be peaking at the tight time.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

You know things are wrong when Cavendish beats Evans in a MTT !!


----------



## jdtate101 (17 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> he did not quite blow everyone else away really, he just seems to be peaking at the tight time.


 

Ah but coming into form after a rest day....deeply suspicious . I'm only kidding, as I don't think any of the GC guys are doped up, but the constant accusations without proof are beginning to piss me off, god only knows how Froome feels day after day.


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Cuddles was clearly conserving energy before taking a double bagger of blood, a couple of bull's testicles and a thick red juicy sirloin overnight and will blast away from the gun tomorrow, pouring 37 bottles of water over his head and down his throat.
You heard it here first.


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## Noodley (17 Jul 2013)

I haz crap tv coverage oh highlights!! Crap in the sense that it's liggett and sherwen and I can hear them..the "atmospherics" seem to have decided.I should see the ITT. yay. Bet I cannae see the next stages...


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## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Cuddles was clearly conserving energy before taking a double bagger of blood, a couple of bull's testicles and a thick red juicy sirloin overnight and will blast away from the gun tomorrow, pouring 37 bottles of water over his head and down his throat.
> You heard it here first.


 
You forgot the Jack Daniels.


----------



## Noodley (17 Jul 2013)

Oh ffs lost the pics and only have sound...I am off for a kebab.


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## SWSteve (17 Jul 2013)

Just watched highlights, does Quintana wear some sort or Aerocondom over his normal helmet?

And how can Cav have beated Cadel!


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Anyone else wonder where Contador's sudden revival of form has come from? He was dropped relatively quickly once the pace went up on AX3 and Ventoux, yet now steams the TT?
> I only say this as people were very quick to point the finger at Froome over doping, yet this should be equally suspicious and treated with the same level of scrutiny. In previous days (read Armstrong days) this would be a huge red flag of a Blood Bag done on the rest day!!!
> 
> It would seem double standards not to equally question this result by Contador.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> He wasn't the Lantern Rouge yet/anylonger this morning, but it seems he's giving it a good effort now
> Funny note: Bazayev was last in previous TT, this time he is (so far) faster than the TT expert Tuft...
> I expect Tuft to have some difficulties in the coming days surviving the mountains
> 
> EDIT: and if Veelers continues this pace, he might have difficulties surviving today (3 min behind Hivert after 14Km)


Dmitriy Muravyev regains the LR from Svein Tuft by a slender 12 seconds.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


>


Would sir like some testosterone on the side?
Rest assured that our steaks are plasticiser-free.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

Froomie. Wowzers. I don't think he's any better than contador.

He's just better prepared and better trained. 

If contador had sky level conditioning and support/diet/training I think he'd at worst give froome a proper race


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Just watched highlights, does Quintana wear some sort or Aerocondom over his normal helmet?
> 
> And how can Cav have beated Cadel!


Either Cadel's face always looks like that and I've never noticed it before because of his dimple or his left jaw is badly swollen. I've no idea but I suspect an abscess and think he may retire overnight.


----------



## jifdave (17 Jul 2013)

Interesting contrast


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## Slaav (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Interesting contrast
> View attachment 26397


 
Regardless of the other 'issues' that some may lean on.... does anyone think that Froome's Aero position may be more efficient and there is a chance that this has been tested in a (marginal gains) wind tunnel?

Surely his ability to crank a hig cadence on the Ax climb shows that he doesnt 'have' to stamp on the peddles - maybe he has just trained better and they have figured that the Froome technique is 'better' than the stampy Bertie one? How much would that be worth over a (eg) 50 minute stage? If 1%, crudely that may mean 30 secs? if 0.1% (!!!!) that may still work out as 3 secs - simple man maths


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> Regardless of the other 'issues' that some may lean on.... does anyone think that Froome's Aero position may be more efficient and there is a chance that this has been tested in a (marginal gains) wind tunnel?
> 
> Surely his ability to crank a hig cadence on the Ax climb shows that he doesnt 'have' to stamp on the peddles - maybe he has just trained better and they have figured that the Froome technique is 'better' than the stampy Bertie one? How much would that be worth over a (eg) 50 minute stage? If 1%, crudely that may mean 30 secs? if 0.1% (!!!!) that may still work out as 3 secs - simple man maths


You also rarely see a Sky rider out of the saddle. I think they've figured out that dancing on the pedals is not very aerodynamic.


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> Interesting contrast
> View attachment 26397


It's like one of those spot-the-difference competitions.
Where did the fat geezer in the blue T-shirt go to when Froome came through?


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## jarlrmai (17 Jul 2013)

he's on the bike


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## perplexed (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's like one of those spot-the-difference competitions.
> Where did the fat geezer in the blue T-shirt go to when Froome came through?


 
He turned into a motorcycle gendarme...


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Here's the reason that the descent of the Col de Sarenne may be neutralised if the weather is dodgy...
... 
View: http://vimeo.com/70139351


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## tigger (17 Jul 2013)

Great stage again today. It's hard to read too much into pure performance levels as it was as much about bike handling as watts per kilo etc. As Smutchin said, Saxo Tinkoff blew it with the bike strategy, otherwise I think we'd have seen a Bertie win by a 20-30 second margin. 

The Spanish riders do seem to be getting better as the Tour unfolds. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt in terms of doping, but in terms of preparation, and knowing how tough this last week was going to be, did they leave room in the tank to improve and ride into peak form for the last 3-4 days? It wokd make sense. Relatively speaking (looking at time gained vs distance) Froome's performance advantage was much greater over AX3 compared to Ventoux for instance. Anyway, my point is that performance is possibly levelling out and we have a potentially epic and incredibly tough stage tomorrow, so don't be surprised if Froome doesn't smash it, or even loses a bit of time, or perish the thought really cracks and blows it( personally I doubt the latter).

Looking forward to future Tours, I think we are seeing some changing of the guard in terms of Evans and Schleck, but I wouldn't write off Contador or some of the other contenders yet. I really believe that Froome is an incredible talent, but I also believe that Sky are capitalising on a more developed sports science approach. In short I buy the Kerrison "cycling was retarded" theory. So the other teams are playing catch up, but catching up they are and will continue to do. It all makes for fascinating times ahead I think. But in the short term... Roll on tomorrow!


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## tigger (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Here's the reason that the descent of the Col de Sarenne may be neutralised if the weather is dodgy...
> ...
> View: http://vimeo.com/70139351




Blimey, do we know if it's been resurfaced since that video was shot?


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Blimey, do we know if it's been resurfaced since that video was shot?


I don't know but I have a vague memory that someoneon here suggested that it had!


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## Sittingduck (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Here's the reason that the descent of the Col de Sarenne may be neutralised if the weather is dodgy...
> ...


 
Since when did you get a helmet cam, Rich?


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> Since when did you get a helmet cam, Rich?


Cheeky bugger! I did that descent a few years back though wearing out some brake blocks. It had (and still has on that video) gravel water-run offs near the top. That must have surely concreted them over.


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## Twizit (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I don't know but I have a vague memory that someoneon here suggested that it had!



Cycled down it in June. Looked like they had thrown a lot of loose gravel and tar at the odd pot hole. We certainly took it very steady. Just hope they've swept it since as all the gravel made it pretty lethal on a lot of corners!!


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Apparently not Thom according to Twizit in June...
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tour-de-france-2013-spoilers.129165/post-2506346


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I don't know but I have a vague memory that someone on here suggested that it had!





Twizit said:


> Cycled down it in June. Looked like they had thrown a lot of loose gravel and tar at the odd pot hole. We certainly took it very steady. Just hope they've swept it since as all the gravel made it pretty lethal on a lot of corners!!


 
stet that - suggested it hadn't!!


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## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's like one of those spot-the-difference competitions.
> Where did the fat geezer in the blue T-shirt go to when Froome came through?


Ryder shoved him down the hill as he passed.


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## Twizit (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> stet that - suggested it hadn't!!


Yep, just checked the video above. I think some pot holes from the vid have been filled in, it was the gravel that was very dodgy when we were there. Hopefully that will have been cleared. Well that and the narrow road, lots of hairpins and complete lack of barriers....

Think I also went through a set of brake blocks!!


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## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Here's the reason that the descent of the Col de Sarenne may be neutralised if the weather is dodgy...
> ...
> View: http://vimeo.com/70139351



Have they stuck a forge half way down to repair your forks.

How would they neutralize it if there are breaks and riders all over the place?


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2013)

A mate of mine, who's a very experienced alpine rider did the decent last year, said it was the scariest he'd ever done.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Twizit said:


> Yep, just checked the video above. I think some pot holes from the vid have been filled in, it was the gravel that was very dodgy when we were there. Hopefully that will have been cleared. Well that and the narrow road, lots of hairpins and complete lack of barriers....
> 
> Think I also went through a set of brake blocks!!


What about the gravel melt-water channels, Twizit?


----------



## Twizit (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> What about the gravel melt-water channels, Twizit?



Gotta be honest I can't remember. Too busy looking for a safe slow line down!! Found a lovely local coffee shop in the village just before the end of the decent though


----------



## Diggs (17 Jul 2013)

Well, I've booked a half day tomorrow so will be attempting to squeeze into LMNH to watch it all unfold.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Blimey, do we know if it's been resurfaced since that video was shot?


Where are all the camper vans going to park ?? Plenty of opporchancity for a brave descendeur to open up a bit of a gap.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Have they stuck a forge half way down to repair your forks.
> 
> How would they neutralize it if there are breaks and riders all over the place?


No idea Crax. Time differences and restart at the bottom like a handicap?


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Considering that Thom and I speculated about this when the route was announced it does make you wonder whether romanticism clouded Prudhomme's judgment.


----------



## jdtate101 (17 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> You also rarely see a Sky rider out of the saddle. I think they've figured out that dancing on the pedals is not very aerodynamic.


 

I thinks it's more a case of you can generate more power over a longer period of time seated, as you are not engaging your core and upper body as much. It's overall less stressful on the body, as long as you can stay on top of the gear. High cadence climbing can actually produce more power (force x rotational speed) as mashing a higher gear. Getting out of the saddle is better for very high power efforts, but Froome on Ventoux produced a frightening acceleration seated with very high cadence.
Bradley was seated most of the time as he has a very high power in that position from his track days and TT's. Not sure aerodynamics plays a huge part in the uphill time trials as the air resistance is not the greatest force at that speed (it's more gravity), but staying tucked means Chris could better use the extension bars as leverage to engage his core to drive the pedals.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Considering that Thom and I speculated about this when the route was announced it does make you wonder whether romanticism clouded Prudhomme's judgment.


Complete aside....

There's something funny going on here, I can't see Thom's posts, either that or you're answering the voices again


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Complete aside....
> 
> There's something funny going on here, I can't see Thom's posts, either that or you're answering the voices again


Hmmm, twilight zone!


----------



## Chris Norton (17 Jul 2013)

I've descended the Sarenne (on ski's not bike) and it's fairly innocuous on those. But going down it at speed, on that video frankly would scare the poo out of me. The road surface looks awful. I know they sweep it, but someone could get hurt badly tomorrow. 

As it's my afternoon off, guess I'll be sat here enjoying the stage my favorite bike stage of all.

Froome to win 3 summits? I'll take that.


----------



## beastie (17 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Is it possible to be smaller than Quintana senior ?


I believe he is 22 but he looks 15 years younger
Not sure about size, leprechaunish?


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, twilight zone!


We were speculating last september on this...
@Crackle clearly wasn't paying proper attention.

I maintain my position of the time, the Sarenne route is the better (more idyllic) route up the Alpe (and the hairpin route is the better route down it...)


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> I believe he is 22 but he looks 15 years younger
> Not sure about size, leprechaunish?


 
Good to see it isn't just me that thinks Q is an old man already


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

I am sure i read that local residents were petitioning against the use of the descent as they didn't want it to be resurfaced - an apparent condition of its inclusion. Though with the Tour just around the corner they had obviously been unsuccessful and the road was going to be used anyway. Think it was cycling weekly.


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2013)

Would hate to see this get decided by falls, suspect Contador might throw caution to the wind.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Would it be bad if I would put this at my desk today?






Still need to find a way then how to avoid my meeting from 14h30 to 16h?


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> We were speculating last september on this...
> @Crackle clearly wasn't paying proper attention.
> 
> I maintain my position of the time, the Sarenne route is the better (more idyllic) route up the Alpe (and the hairpin route is the better route down it...)


Ahh, it all becomes clear. I was paying attention, honest. I also wasn't reading Rich's posts properly. It's the heat. I note I speculate going to the ITT in that thread. Looking at the crowds, glad I didn't. I do regret all the years of having a campervan and never going to the tour with it. I'll have to buy another one.


----------



## y2blade (18 Jul 2013)

I'm sure it has been asked and covered already so forgive me for asking again:

Is there anywhere I can follow/watch it live online please? had been watching on sky go during the day but wifi here is playing up today!

Thank you in advance.
Chris


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

www.sportlemon.tv


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> I'm sure it has been asked and covered already so forgive me for asking again:
> 
> Is there anywhere I can follow/watch it live online please? had been watching on sky go during the day but wifi here is playing up today!
> 
> ...


 
You can use this site, link 4 always works for me, but since it is English-spoken Eurosport, you have to accept the recurring "Mollaymaa" and "Huygerland"


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

A little something to get you in the mood... 


View: http://youtu.be/-3r74rhLL7Q


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> I'm sure it has been asked and covered already so forgive me for asking again:
> 
> Is there anywhere I can follow/watch it live online please? had been watching on sky go during the day but wifi here is playing up today!
> 
> ...


This was also posted up a day or so ago - http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/us/live/aso/


----------



## y2blade (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> www.sportlemon.tv


 


The Couch said:


> You can use this site, link 4 always works for me, but since it is English-spoken Eurosport, you have to accept the recurring "Mollaymaa" and "Huygerland"


 


Thank you both


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> A little something to get you in the mood...


*Slobber*drool*drool*  

I believe that we will indeed see Rodriguez and Contador in a similar pattern today
(Still... I'm hoping they start the battling today sooner than in that stage)

Not quite sure about Froome dropping today and needing to be pulled by a domestique though (if he even still has any arround him by then)


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

So, @The Couch, how should Hoogerland be prononunced?


----------



## beastie (18 Jul 2013)

Anyone got a weather report for today?


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Anyone got a weather report for today?


thunder storms, apparently


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

beastie said:


> Anyone got a weather report for today?


Some showers in the morning, thunder after that, gusty, temps around 14. http://france.meteofrance.com/france/montagne?MONTAGNE_PORTLET.path=montagneprevisionville/381911


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> A little something to get you in the mood...
> View: http://youtu.be/-3r74rhLL7Q


After watching that, I just think Froome should show no mercy whatsoever...
But the crowds will be bonkers.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So, @The Couch, how should Hoogerland be prononunced?


You pronounce the "Hoo" a bit like the oldest profession in the world but without closing it with a "w" sound, just keep it open
then the "ger" is like the "gar" in sugar
and the a in "land" is a short sound like the a in the British way of pronouncing "bath"

EDIT: of course I would not pronounce it either 100% the same way as a "Hollander" would, since in Belgium we speak decent Dutch


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

excellent tweet from Millar...

*David Millar* ‏@*millarmind*  4m
Dear Greenedge Bus, please can you park yourself under the finish line today, BEFORE we pass for the first time. Much appreciated. David


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

A tweet from Kittel:
He wants the Dutch fans (on the Aple d'Huez) to singe this when Koen de Kort passes by... now that would be great tv


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

@rich p & @Twizit : breathe a sigh of relief - Will Foth reports new tarmac has been laid


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

"@albertocontador: Hill top finish today with two times up Alpe D'Huez! Who knows what will happen...??"

You can almost hear the glint in his eye.


----------



## jdtate101 (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> We were speculating last september on this...
> @Crackle clearly wasn't paying proper attention.
> 
> I maintain my position of the time, the Sarenne route is the better (more idyllic) route up the Alpe (and the hairpin route is the better route down it...)


 

I'd also rate the Sarenne the harder climb....it's longer and steeper in parts. Only plus it has over the traditional route is that it doesn't catch the afternoon sun in quite the same way so is less of an oven. I did it on a drizzly day and it was a humid sweat fest even then.


----------



## Beebo (18 Jul 2013)

What is the chance any one in the autobus getting lapped?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Not looking like the same impact as a couple of turns higher up:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=460659934031087&l=e7aba8d7d1

But it's good to see somebody taking up the challenge of trying to push the (crazy) Dutch away  .... especially with this year's Mollemania


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

I've just seen Quintana interviewed and no way is he 23!
He looks as old as me


----------



## MisterStan (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I've just seen Quintana interviewed and no way is he 23!
> He looks as old as me


 
Tough paper round?


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> You pronounce the "Hoo" a bit like the oldest profession in the world but without closing it with a "w" sound, just keep it open
> then the "ger" is like the "gar" in sugar
> and the a in "land" is a short sound like the a in the British way of pronouncing "bath"
> 
> EDIT: of course I would not pronounce it either 100% the same way as a "Hollander" would, since in Belgium we speak decent Dutch


Makes up for what you do to French ?


----------



## DCLane (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I've just seen Quintana interviewed and no way is he 23!
> He looks as old as me


 
I thought that too. 33 maybe? Or he's had it tough growing up in the mountains.


----------



## redcard (18 Jul 2013)

Anyone recognise the orange top / jacket Rob Hayles was wearing when he did the Dutch corner segment this morning?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


> What is the chance any one in the autobus getting lapped?


To get an idea of the time intervals with conservative estimations, say it takes 20 mins to get over from the junction on the Alpe where the routes split to and down the Sarenne, round the valley bottom to the foot of the climb (I think it will take longer) and say it takes 35 mins or so on an amazing day to ascend the Alpe to the point where the routes split, then it is around a 55 min difference the last rider would have to lose even before getting to the foot of the Alpe for the last time.
I reckon the lap will take a bit over an hour for the guys at the front.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

It's nice seeing the frisky start for a change. Will a break get away etc.
I have to look after my 1 yr old grandson from 12 which may prove distracting.


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

Given Quintana's lack of racecraft (surprising given that he's actually 30+ years old), I'd expect to see him go on the first ascent of L'Alpe...


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's nice seeing the frisky start for a change. Will a break get away etc.
> I have to look after my 1 yr old grandson from 12 which may prove distracting.


 

Same here - despite protestations regarding the historic nature of the stage, I've got my 16 month old this afternoon.


----------



## MisterStan (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's nice seeing the frisky start for a change. Will a break get away etc.
> I have to look after my 1 yr old grandson from 12 which may prove distracting.


 
Engineer his nap times for later on, a bit of gin in his bottle may help this.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

I'm thinking strawberries and crisps in the highchair - don't tell Mum


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

It must be depressing for the stiffs to be dropped on the first Cat 2 climb!


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

Saxo animating this already - looks like a fun day


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

BTW, free pint to anyone who sees David Lopez anywhere near the front today


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

ffs - so much action already on the early 2nd cat climb - 
Cadel Evans off the front.
Froome responding to Saxo-Tinkoff & Quintana, losing his whole team in the process...
It should come back on the descents though somewhat.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

Sky are noticeable by their absence again


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

Froome needs to be canny here. No way can Kreuziger keep this attacking up all day


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> BTW, free pint to anyone who sees David Lopez anywhere near the front today


Since he might get doubled  that pint is ours


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

Kennaugh is there now - Porte can't be far away hopefully


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Since he might get doubled  that pint is ours


Lapped, you mean? It's a possibility on current form!


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's nice seeing the frisky start for a change. Will a break get away etc.
> I have to look after my 1 yr old grandson from 12 which may prove distracting.


 
now's the time to explain the points system for the green jersey to the little fellow.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Anyone who says this is not an interesting race is a f**kwit !


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

p.s. England 28-3 FFS


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Answer me this. Is Kreuziger his own man today? In other words, if he feels good can he pick his time and go for it, or has he got to break away when Contadoper tells him to?


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> p.s. England 28-3 FFS


 
sshhhhh - we're concentrating!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> sshhhhh - we're concentrating!


Anyhow, they'll make it up on the 2nd ascent of Bois de St Jean...


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> BTW, free pint to anyone who sees David Lopez anywhere near the front today


Ahem


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> Answer me this. Is Kreuziger his own man today *NO*? In other words, if he feels good can he pick his time and go for it *NO*, or has he got to break away when Contadoper tells him to *YES*?


 
I'm never right though!


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

So Movistar and Belkin have a man in the break, but Saxo don't.

If you have a need to have the obvious pointed out you at any point, don't hesitate to give me shout


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> I'm never right though!


 
I agree!


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> So Movistar and Belkin have a man in the break, but Saxo don't.
> 
> If you have a need to have the obvious pointed out you at any point, don't hesitate to give me shout


 

I agree, Roche to win by at least 10 minutes.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2013)

Why is that none of the commentators realise what Froome and Brailsford did yesterday with the timing of the bike change? It seems obvious to me that they were indulging in a tiny but important piece of psychology - by changing just before the second time check, it would make it look to Contador ahead that Froome was down on him, and allow Froome to disguise his real pace (which was already level with or quicker than Contador).


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Purito also changed his bike early.

To be fair, I think the commentators on ES did make that observation at the time. Or maybe it was Boardman on the ITV podcast. I've definitely heard someone say it though.


----------



## bridgy (18 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Why is that none of the commentators realise what Froome and Brailsford did yesterday with the timing of the bike change? It seems obvious to me that they were indulging in a tiny but important piece of psychology - by changing just before the second time check, it would make it look to Contador ahead that Froome was down on him, and allow Froome to disguise his real pace (which was already level with or quicker than Contador).


 

Rob Hayles said exactly that on the 5-live commentary at the time


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Say what you like about ES coverage, at least I'll never wonder again who to go to if I need an iceberg transported halfway round the world.


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Why is that none of the commentators realise what Froome and Brailsford did yesterday with the timing of the bike change? It seems obvious to me that they were indulging in a tiny but important piece of psychology - by changing just before the second time check, it would make it look to Contador ahead that Froome was down on him, and allow Froome to disguise his real pace (which was already level with or quicker than Contador).


 

I think Liggett mentioned this during the live commentary yesterday, not the psychological aspect of it, but that Froome might actually be quicker than Contador when the bike change time was included.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Why is that none of the commentators realise what Froome and Brailsford did yesterday with the timing of the bike change? It seems obvious to me that they were indulging in a tiny but important piece of psychology - by changing just before the second time check, it would make it look to Contador ahead that Froome was down on him, and allow Froome to disguise his real pace (which was already level with or quicker than Contador).


Yes, it did look like a clear intent to change before the timer and perhaps skew the meaning of the timer for other riders.
Thinking about it though, the way it worked out, it helped that they got a clean timing of how far Froome was on the last section without having the change left to make - Contador was 6 mins on the road ahead of Froome so whatever the final Froome/Contador time difference, Contador likely had little opportunity to respond to Froome at that point but Froome certainly had a more accurate idea of where he was in relation to Contador.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> I'm never right though!


But if you're never right and you say you're never right, it must be that at times you are right


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

Speaking of bike changes; as we appear to be, Kreuziger said in his piece for the Czech media that it was his own decision not to change bikes, not a team strategy. He didn't want to disrupt his rhythm and maintains that he made the right decision.


----------



## Beebo (18 Jul 2013)

stolen off the BBC web site. This would be a shame!

_"A word of warning about the potential thrills and spills to come on the slopes of L'Alpe d'Huez later on today. If we get heavy rain, then the organisers say the race will finish when the riders reach the summit for the first time - they won't go down and then back up again._
_Let's just hope the weather doesn't spoil our fun, but there is already concern over the safety of the descent down L'Alpe, down Col de Sarenne, and treacherous conditions would make things even worse."_


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Why is that none of the commentators realise what Froome and Brailsford did yesterday with the timing of the bike change? It seems obvious to me that they were indulging in a tiny but important piece of psychology - by changing just before the second time check, it would make it look to Contador ahead that Froome was down on him, and allow Froome to disguise his real pace (which was already level with or quicker than Contador).


Which is why I said this:


The Couch said:


> Yeah, Froome looking like he has best chances to beat Purito


But I would assume that Saxo must have had tv on in the car, so they must have seen the bike change as well... so not sure if that made any difference in Contador giving it all or not... I believe it's more the bike difference itself that caused Froome to win it (by so close)


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


> stolen off the BBC web site. This would be a shame!
> 
> _"A word of warning about the potential thrills and spills to come on the slopes of L'Alpe d'Huez later on today. If we get heavy rain, then the organisers say the race will finish when the riders reach the summit for the first time - they won't go down and then back up again._
> _Let's just hope the weather doesn't spoil our fun, but there is already concern over the safety of the descent down L'Alpe, down Col de Sarenne, and treacherous conditions would make things even worse."_


BOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

_Eurosport have just broadcast an interview with Tour event director Jean Francois Pescheux who says the riders will just have to deal with whatever weather the gods throw at them. Unless the roads are actually washed away, he says, they'll be going up Alpe d'Huez twice._


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> _Eurosport have just broadcast an interview with Tour event director Jean Francois Pescheux who says the riders will just have to deal with whatever weather the gods throw at them. Unless the roads are actually washed away, he says, they'll be going up Alpe d'Huez twice._


But the camera-motos won't be descending with the riders as there is some dampness on the newly laid roads - rain brings out oil on fresh tarmac doesn't it ?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Sagan has all the luck...


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Chris Froome, psyching himself up this morning:


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

While Voight digs into his musette, there's a nice tour story told by him in French HERE


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Chris Froome, psyching himself up this morning:


Uploading... Contador 4m34, Kreuzinger 4m51, ... , Valverde 15m12

Upload finished.... Enter Command: "Follow, not destroy" .... awaiting next command....


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> While Voight digs into his musette, there's a nice tour story told by him in French HERE


 

Good old Jens, nice sense of fair play!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

2 things... way too many ad breaks today, and the race has got awfy boring again


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> 2 things... way too many ad breaks today, and the race has got awfy boring again


 
Despite the daring Saxo move?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Despite the daring Saxo move?


Robt Millar summed it up nicley in his latest blog...
"And just as what has happened in every race that Sky has riders left when the last climb starts, the men in black set a speed which sees tickets issued to those leaving the train" ...." It was no surprise Froome won at the top of Ventoux as he's been the best climber in the race but the way the others rode beforehand, it was if they hadn't noticed when they take him to the last mountain he kicks their backsides"
So, someone has to push things well before the final climb, otherwise it is silver platter time.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

I predict Contador will launch his attack on the Sarenne, soon after they crest the first climb of Alpe d'Huez.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Sky looking well placed at the moment - they'll lose people on the way up the Alpe but they are together going up the Ornon so set to support Froome & Porte for the first ascent on the Alpe.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I predict Contador will launch his attack on the Sarenne, soon after they crest the first climb of Alpe d'Huez.


you may be right, a brave and throw caution to the wind descent might be his only option.


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

HERE WE GO!!!!!


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Amazing crowds


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Commercial break on ITV4. England now 101 - 3.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Tejay jumps ahead from the leading group
Sky almost blocking the road in front of the peloton
Edit - Sky is there in full @rich p ;-)


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Commercial break on ITV4. England now 101 - 3.


what's your point caller ?


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

Cadel looks a bit rough already.


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

Surely Sky cannot try and blow this thing apart on the first go?
Teejay looks comfortable at the moment.


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Lopez still with the sky boys... Unseen this tour


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

gawd, they closed the road 3 days ago!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> what's your point caller ?


A fielder between gulley and mid-on....


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Paulinho & Roche: C'est magnifique mais ce n'est pas la guerre.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger or Contador needed to attack on the first ascent, I think Saxobank have blown their chances now.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Wonder why no team has come up with the wheeze of leaving riders on the Alpe first time round to do a pacing job on the second climb.


----------



## User169 (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wonder why no team has come up with the wheeze of leaving riders on the Alpe first time round to do a pacing job on the second climb.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Is that Valverde at the back?


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

looks as if Sky have been keeping their powder dry for this stage, they are controlling the pace and thinning the group.

i though Quincy would have attacked by now


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Mechanical for Valverde


----------



## MickyMickster (18 Jul 2013)

Here comes Tommy


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

ES commentator: "This is everything you could possibly hope for"

Well... there may have been some people hoping to see some GC action, no?


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

gora Nieve!


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Not quite sure, if Froome is feeling very safe with all those people in Orange around him


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

sky getting booed at dutch corner then


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

a wee schleckanical there


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Mechanical for Valverde


 
His knee elastic has snapped?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Talansky going for it... surely other GC people must be hitting panic buttons now


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> ES commentator: "This is everything you could possibly hope for"
> 
> Well... there may have been some people hoping to see some GC action, no?


yes, saxo should have put kreuziger ahead and on the attack first ascent, poor tactics


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Schleck's chain looked to have slipped, i was surprised Berty didn't attack out of habit.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Voeckler, contorting his way up the mountain.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> Schleck's chain looked to have slipped, i was surprised Berty didn't attack out of habit.


 
Schleck had a schlack chain?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

It's really hard to say/type, but Schleck is actually looking pretty good climbing up the Alpe d'Huez at the moment


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

voeckler has blown big style. Its two trips up fella!


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2013)

Why are the Dutch booing Sky?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Since he was the (only) one standing before Mollema in the GC ... that's all it takes


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Why are the Dutch booing Sky?


 
they're not Dutch? no idea, seems a bit rubbish.


----------



## MisterStan (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> they're not Dutch? no idea, seems a bit rubbish.


 
At least they aren't throwing urine at them!


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

MisterStan said:


> At least they aren't throwing urine at them!


 
yet


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Wasn't there going to be dreadful weather?!?


----------



## MisterStan (18 Jul 2013)

Moser dropped before the summit...


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

thats sad for tj!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

TJ's got chain troubles. Don't forget to look where you're going....


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> So, @The Couch, how should Hoogerland be prononunced?


By the way... since the ES guy is at it again  .... Poels is also not "Powls", but the "Poe" is pronounced like "poo"


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Moser seems to be a nice descender


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

I am pretty convinced that Sky have paid saxo off now. It's like they are not even there.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Moser seems to be a nice descender


 
I was just thinking that. He caught Riblon very easily.

That descent looks terrifying.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Riblon off the road!

Contador off the front, but Sky not chasing.....


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

And it's raining now


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Rain on the Sarenne - no obvious move from Contador at the summit though


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Deeeeeeescent looks wicked. Fortune favour the brave?


----------



## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

Not sure I can watch this descent...


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Whoa! Riblon thankful for his brown shorts there.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

That descent is unbelievable. Little margin for error!


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Doesn't look like anyone is prepared to push it


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Moser seems to be a nice descender


Rolland is not


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Oh!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

about fecking time !!!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Rain on the Sarenne - no obvious move from Contador at the summit though


 
now he goes


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

bertie is trying it on this descent!


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

farking hell, risky to attack there. Surely Froome is better to play it safe? How much a lead can Contador get? And that is before the second climb.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I am pretty convinced that Sky have paid saxo off now. It's like they are not even there.


 
You were saying?


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Sky look to be playing it cool on the descent


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

I didn't know Rolland was riding for Movistar now


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Bertie flipping a coin here. Hope it doesn't end in tears.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You were saying?


I stand corrected, and am pleased to say so. Too little too late I fear.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Contador has all of 10 secs - nothing to worry about


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

I believe they have seen they don't take enough time in the descent, so I assume they will hold back once it goes flatter


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Doesn't look like Contador has got any great advantage out of his little break there.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Contador advantage of 20 seconds, with another climb to go.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Jens in 4th place?

I've seen a lot worse descents than that, by the way. Mind you, AH did consider instructing m'learned friends after that last one.......


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Mollema didn't attack in the 1st Alpe d'Huez, didn't attack in the descent ... I guess now it's down to the back-up plan during the 2nd climb:


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Contador & Kreuziger reeled back in -a couple of matches burnt and wasted


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

My money is on Tejay


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Didn't know where Riblon was going, but I didn't expect him to jump over the traffic island!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Ronan Rivron putting in a surprising performance for AG2R today

I guess Movistar are pushing hard for Quintana because they reckon Contador & Kreuziger are vulnerable right now


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Kelly & Kirby are bigging up the escape trio's chances of winning the stage. It'll be a close thing. The gap will tumble very quickly when they hit the climb again and the attacks start from the GC men.

Riblon's making a good attempt to rescue some honour for France from this Tour though.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

They are surely going to stay away


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

question. They're going to weigh the bikes at the end of the stage, but Contador has changed bikes. Which bike do they weigh?


----------



## Rob3rt (18 Jul 2013)

Both if they are smart!


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Jens takes 3rd place?


----------



## Chromatic (18 Jul 2013)

Both of them I would imagine.


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Froome looks like he is struggling


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> Jens takes 3rd place?


 
One things for sure is he'll give his all. He'll be f**ked by the end of it, particularly the way Kirby pronounces his name.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

tug benson said:


> Froome looks like he is struggling


 
Like on the way up La Toussuire last year ? Classic con trick - he's fine ;-)


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Porte suddenly looks like he's trying to close the gap


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Did Froome just say to Porte: if you can take Tejay back, you can win today


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Serpa still in there. Vamos Colombianos!


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Will we finaly see some difference between the Saxo-twins?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Froome off again ! Spectaculicious


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Frooooooooooooooooome!


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Quintana to win the stage.


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

what a rider. I would love to see quintana get the stage though.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

or Rodriguez


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Quintana very strong


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Hope Rodriguez stays with them, I've got £2 on him getting a podium finish at 7-1


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

game over for Berty?


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Porte is looking like he wants to bridge as well


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Porte has found his climbing legs


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Porte & Valverde drop Contador !
Disaster for Saxo-Tinkoff


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Van Garderen is holding on


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Quincy is looking good, but Purito looks stronger


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

froome not taking his turn there


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Now J-Rod goes


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

where's Jensie?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

& Quintana is dropping Froome now !


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Rodriguez away from Quintana and Froome - at least for the moment?

Cold roast lamb sandwiches - branston, tomato ketchup or mint jelly?


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> where's Jensie?


the Guardian has him in second


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Froome isn't giving up. Berty might as well.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Contador's high steak strategy didn't pan out for him today - he over-cooked it


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Porte recovers quicker than the Wolverine!!!


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Amazing from Porte


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Porte for the stage win? he looks stronger than Froome


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Porte's back! I didn't expect to see him again.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Will we finaly see some difference between the Saxo-twins?


Nope


The Couch said:


> Porte is looking like he wants to bridge as well


 
But at least I got this right


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Is Porte doing to Froome what Froome did to Wiggo last year?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> Is Porte doing to Froome what Froome did to Wiggo last year?


 
Ha! Exactly what I was just thinking.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

I am rooting for TJ now, BMC could do with a win


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Voigt going backwards very quickly now.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I am rooting for TJ now, BMC could do with a win


Me too, and he's making a good job of it so far.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

Froome punctures?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Froome with a mechanical - gears ?
No - he's bonked !


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Just wanted a drink?


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

Froome hit the wall


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

bonked?


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Froome in trouble


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2013)

Froome human shocker!


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

looks as if Porte went to get food/drink inside limit. probably get a time penalty.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Froome munching when he shouldn't be! 
​


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

and Quincy goes


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Some of those spectators should be chucked off the edge of the road...


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Go Quintana!!!!!


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Froome bonks!


----------



## Chris Norton (18 Jul 2013)

what a stage!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Teejay chewing the bars, great effort! Riblon too.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Riblon coming back - 20''


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Can Riblon get back, that would be a wow!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Will Riblon catch Tejay ?


----------



## Va Va Froome (18 Jul 2013)

Wow what drama! I just signed up in the excitement! 

Why is what Sky did illegal? (Not familiar with all the race rules)


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Froome munching when he shouldn't be!
> ​


but porte gets the blame !


----------



## fimm (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> looks as if Porte went to get food/drink inside limit. probably get a time penalty.


 Could you explain this, sometime, please?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Porte is riding a complete blinder here


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

although I am now thinking a french win on the alpe would be good


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Va Va Froome said:


> Wow what drama! I just signed up in the excitement!
> 
> Why is what Sky did illegal? (Not familiar with all the race rules)


 
Love the user name!


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Whumph..........!


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

fimm said:


> Could you explain this, sometime, please?


 
riders aren't allowed a feed from the car inside the final 20km or on the last climb (rules vary). Froome wanted something, but Porte went back to get it - he'll get the penalty. he then gae the food to Froome.


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## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Have to feel a bit sorry for Tejay!


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

allez allez!!!!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

allez christophe ! pauvre TJ


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## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Not allowed to take food or drink from the cars in the last.....20k... I think


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Va Va Froome said:


> Wow what drama! I just signed up in the excitement!
> 
> Why is what Sky did illegal? (Not familiar with all the race rules)


 


fimm said:


> Could you explain this, sometime, please?


 
There are feeding restrictions in the last parts of stages, in particular on uphill finishes, partly because riders tend to hold the hand of someone in a support car and get a temporary pull. So people taking food/water get penalised in time.
You are allowed to take stuff from team mates though - so possible Froome will avoid penalty himself


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> riders aren't allowed a feed from the car inside the final 20km or on the last climb (rules vary). Froome wanted something, but Porte went back to get it - he'll get the penalty. he then gae the food to Froome.


 
Bit of poor planning? He could have had a bit in his pockets?


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Froome will get a penalty too surely? Otherwise it's a useless rule that can be cheated by getting doms to get the food/drink.


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## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

door banging time !!!!


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## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Froome will get a penalty too surely? Otherwise it's a useless rule that can be cheated by getting doms to get the food/drink.


 
But if the idea is to stop people getting pulls from the cars, then Froome hasn't gained from what the rule is supposed to prevent.


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2013)

Never thought I'd see a Sky Pro bonk, especially not Froome.

This is madness.


----------



## fimm (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> riders aren't allowed a feed from the car inside the final 20km or on the last climb (rules vary). Froome wanted something, but Porte went back to get it - he'll get the penalty. he then gae the food to Froome.


 Ah, thank you.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

No... I can't see anybody but Froome getting the blame here... Porte clearly went to get it for Froome (he should have acted better to avoid a fine/time penalty)


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## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

What a way for the French to take a stage


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Enfin!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Chapeau Riblon !


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

Well done Riblon. Hard as snails!
​


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

I always cringe when people start waving their hands in the air before they actually cross the line - people have been known to fall off...


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## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Chapeau Riblon !


 
bis


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## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

chapeau that man, great win.


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## Paul_L (18 Jul 2013)

well that was a dull stage!


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## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Well done Froome - he looks to have limited his losses well


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## Va Va Froome (18 Jul 2013)

Pretty nice that the French get their home win on the 100th Tour at such a crazy stage!


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## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Fine, time......which?


----------



## Gains84 (18 Jul 2013)

Think they all deserve a piece of cake after that ride...i have and I only painted the fence!


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## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Froome had the same look on his face that i have after a day on the North Downs. chapeau to Porte for helping.

gora to Nieve, crossing the line with Berty


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

My boss decided to call a surprise brainstorming meeting. What did I miss?


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## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> My boss decided to call a surprise brainstorming meeting. What did I miss?


not much.


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> My boss decided to call a surprise brainstorming meeting. What did I miss?


Froome ran out of batteries so Porte went back to get some Duracell outside of the feed time limit. The Duracell bunny wasn't happy.


----------



## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Froome ran out of batteries so Porte went back to get some Duracell outside of the feed time limit. The Duracell bunny wasn't happy.


And Porte tried to make it look like he got the batteries from his own back


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> My boss decided to call a surprise brainstorming meeting. What did I miss?


Well, they were riding up this hill but they must have taken a wrong turning because they ended up down at the bottom and had to go back up again.


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## The Couch (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Well, they were riding up this hill but they must have taken a wrong turning because they ended up down at the bottom and had to go back up again.


I blame the Dutch for causing the confusion with their arrows


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

interesting info from Daniel Lloyd on eurosport re Berty. his break on the descent ended when they found the UCI were going to go a bike weight check at the finish... so he sat up and changed bikes.

hmmmmm.


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Well, they were riding up this hill but they must have taken a wrong turning because they ended up down at the bottom and had to go back up again.


 
Sounds like a right palaver. Glad I missed it.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2013)

Fookin epic! A French win at last, when we all thought it was impossible!! Spent the day with my bro-in-law, and for the last couple of ks we were both screaming at the telly. Brilliant!!


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> interesting info from Daniel Lloyd on eurosport re Berty. his break on the descent ended when they found the UCI were going to go a bike weight check at the finish... so he sat up and changed bikes.
> 
> hmmmmm.


 
What would a bike weight check show? Motors inside the frame?


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

question. Will Sky work for Cav on the last stage?


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> What would a bike weight check show? Motors inside the frame?


 
underweight bike for Berty. climbing special.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> What would a bike weight check show? Motors inside the frame?


Simply that it is above the UCI minimum weight limit


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle - do you mean it would show as _below_ the minimum weight?


----------



## MisterStan (18 Jul 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> question. Will Sky work for Cav on the last stage?


 
I was wondering that myself....


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> Crackle - do you mean it would show as _below_ the minimum weight?


 
yes... so he changed for a 'legal' one.


----------



## Spinney (18 Jul 2013)

When steak doesn't work, try something else...?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Maybe he just thought it was a good tactic after seeing everybody else change their bikes to such good effect halfway through yesterday's stage.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Or maybe it's not that his climbing bike was under weight but that he wanted a heavier bike for the descent for extra traction?


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## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Still digesting the result from today but worth looking at tomorrow's stage :







I think the Madeleine on this route is harder than the Alpe. Tomorrow will be tough !

Interesting that Froome accepts he asked Porte to do something illegal in getting the sugars but he states that their car had had its own mechanical in the valley, presumably hindering their ability to refuel. If true, perhaps we don't have to feel quite so ashamed for him ;-)


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Or maybe it's not that his climbing bike was under weight but that he wanted a heavier bike for the descent for extra traction?


I reckon that, gearing etc... Bad move today though


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Absolutely cracking finish that. 

If Froome is penalised, then the feeding-from-the-car rule seems pretty silly to me (- I've only been watch cycling since last years' Vuelta). If it is intended to ensure that the rider doesn't get a pull from the car, then it makes sense, but the fact Porte gave the food to Froome should mean only Porte is penalised?

As for the bike weight issue - why would there be a minimum weight? To ensure teams don't compromise the structural integrity and safety of the bike? 
Surely they'll check all the bikes on the cars? But I really can't believe anyone would suggest Contador would do anything sly or underhand...


----------



## beastie (18 Jul 2013)

Great stage, mad crowds, unbelievable that Froome or Porte had no emergency bonk rations. Pffft-amateurs.


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## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Nice words from Froome on Quintana. Class.


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## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

penalized 20secs. Did it make any difference with 5k to go, taking it?


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

may I be the first to say that I love Richie Porte's cheeky smile? In a manly way, of course!


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Nice words from Froome on Quintana. Class.


yup. Movistar are going to have to give him a pay rise before that nice Sir Dave comes calling.......


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> penalized 20secs


 
really ? Well probably a price worth paying.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> penalized 20secs. Did it make any difference with 5k to go, taking it?


 

I'm not sure how immediate the physical effects are, but it probably would have given him a psychological boost.

I still don't see why Froome was penalised given that he didn't go anywhere near the team car. If he'd had the gel in his pocket from earlier in the day, he'd have been allowed to eat it, right?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Bikes being controlled in a tent by the finish line for their weight... and scanned for hidden motors


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## Roadrider48 (18 Jul 2013)

Froome said there was a problem with the team car and it wasn't close enough to get anything from....just over five minutes advantage over Contador, should be it! Well done again Ritchie Porte.


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Or maybe it's not that his climbing bike was under weight but that he wanted a heavier bike for the descent for extra traction?


 
he was down the descent and hadn't changed bikes, as far as i know, before the drop.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> he was down the descent and hadn't changed bikes, as far as i know, before the drop.


Yes, that's right. If he did change to a heavier bike it was after his downhill attack on Froome.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> he was down the descent and hadn't changed bikes, as far as i know, before the drop.


 
Yeah, maybe he changed from a _heavier_ bike to a _lighter_ bike for the final climb is what I'm suggesting, rather than the other way round, which is what people seem to be assuming - without any good reason afaics.

The bike weight check is probably just a coincidence.


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I'm not sure how immediate the physical effects are, but it probably would have given him a psychological boost.
> 
> I still don't see why Froome was penalised given that he didn't go anywhere near the team car. If he'd had the gel in his pocket from earlier in the day, he'd have been allowed to eat it, right?


 
Immediate. As soon as your body senses carbohydrate coming in (via taste buds) it releases glycogen reserves that were being held back for rainy day.


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, maybe he changed from a _heavier_ bike to a _lighter_ bike for the final climb is what I'm suggesting, rather than the other way round, which is what people seem to be assuming - without any good reason afaics.
> 
> The bike weight check is probably just a coincidence.


 
I can't for the life of me think why any team would have road bikes that weren't all exactly 6.8 kg.


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## thom (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I can't for the life of me think why any team would have road bikes that weren't all exactly 6.8 kg.


 
And if you wanted more weight for a descent, much easier to take a couple of full bidons rather than swap a bike. Fill the bidons with lead if you really want the weight ;-)


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> And if you wanted more weight for a descent, much easier to take a couple of full bidons rather than swap a bike. Fill the bidons with lead if you really want the weight ;-)


 
I am not convinced there is any advantage to having extra weight on the descent. What you gain on acceleration you lose on cornering.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I can't for the life of me think why any team would have road bikes that weren't all exactly 6.8 kg.


 

What is the reason for the 6.8kg limit?


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> What is the reason for the 6.8kg limit?


 
UCI stipulated. Ours not to reason why...


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Well, we don't have any evidence that weight was anything to do with his reason for changing bikes - apart from the unfounded rumours linking the bike change with the weigh-in at the finish.

I suppose it makes a change from rumours about Sky's secret magic beans.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Immediate. As soon as your body senses carbohydrate coming in (via taste buds) it releases glycogen reserves that were being held back for rainy day.


 

Ah, thanks. So it is not necessarily the gel that is providing the energy, but the body releasing energy it already holds, knowing it is going to be 'paid back' very shortly?


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> What is the reason for the 6.8kg limit?


 
Ostensibly, safety. Not sure if there's any scientific reason to believe lighter bikes are genuinely less safe though or if it's just one of those UCI quirks.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> And if you wanted more weight for a descent, much easier to take a couple of full bidons rather than swap a bike. Fill the bidons with lead if you really want the weight ;-)


 
Didn't they already ban lead-weighted bidons some years ago?


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ostensibly, safety. Not sure if there's any scientific reason to believe lighter bikes are genuinely less safe though or if it's just one of those UCI quirks.


 
I think it's an anachronism. UCI just hasn't updated the limit for a good few years now, and you could probably go to 5.8kg or less now with no safety compromises.


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Didn't they already ban lead-weighted bidons some years ago?


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

2554588 said:


> That would put a bit of a strain on the cage and its mounts.


 
Also very dangerous if it falls off.


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## VamP (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Also very dangerous if it falls off.


 
or gets thrown


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## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ostensibly, safety. Not sure if there's any scientific reason to believe lighter bikes are genuinely less safe though or if it's just one of those UCI quirks.


 

It does makes some intuitive sense that if a team skimp on material here and there, they'll get a marginal advantage (and we know they all add up) and this may threaten safety if some push the limit too far - and I doubt any team (or rider) would seriously imperil their safety for a slender advantage. Given that we are developing new materials all the time, they may well lower the limit? Especially given that some bikes already exist for sale below the limit. http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/RaceTalk/uci-weight-limit-68kg.html

I hope they do, as this weight limit may well hinder the development of newer materials and innovations. Graphene bikes would be far stronger and much lighter (though they are more than a few years off yet).


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## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2013)

I'm holding on and waiting for spider silk fibre bikes


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

2554588 said:


> That would put a bit of a strain on the cage and its mounts.


 
stick em up your jumper then - did you see the Euskaltel-Euskadi guy the other day ? He had about 20 in his jumper.
Lead or not, you get the point - if riders did feel weight helps then riders would be taking bottles and picking up a couple of kilos all the time.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Also very dangerous if it falls off.


 
Throwing bottles the wrong way off the Sarenne today might have either hit a rider further down or caused an avalanche !


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Les chronos de la montée de l'Alpe d'Huez : 39'49 pour Quintana; 39'52 pour Rodriguez; 40'55 pour Froome. 13e temps pour Riblon : 43'01


----------



## dragon72 (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Les chronos de la montée de l'Alpe d'Huez : 39'49 pour Quintana; 39'52 pour Rodriguez; 40'55 pour Froome. 13e temps pour Riblon : 43'01


 
...et 1h20'24 pour dragon72.
mind you, that was on a Dawes Horizon with a full camping load. With a hangover.


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> ...et 1h20'24 pour dragon72.
> mind you, that was on a Dawes Horizon with a full camping load. With a hangover.


Chapeau !


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

dragon72 said:


> ...et 1h20'24 pour dragon72.
> mind you, that was on a Dawes Horizon with a full camping load. With a hangover.


 
Even then its an invalid time I'm afraid - alcohol is a banned substance ;-)


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2013)

also bike banned for being too heavy, obviously trying to gain time on the descent.


----------



## crisscross (18 Jul 2013)

Dumb-ish question - they gave a time penalty to Froome. 

What would have happened if it had been someone like Geraint Thomas that needed a drink, 20 seconds isn't going to make a scrap of difference to anyone outside the top 20 or vying for the other jerseys?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> yes... so he changed for a 'legal' one.


Nothing illegal going on , I heard talk of switching to carbon rims after the potentially rough descent befroe the 2nd climb (from ally hoops)


----------



## jdtate101 (18 Jul 2013)

crisscross said:


> Dumb-ish question - they gave a time penalty to Froome.
> 
> What would have happened if it had been someone like Geraint Thomas that needed a drink, 20 seconds isn't going to make a scrap of difference to anyone outside the top 20 or vying for the other jerseys?


 

They wouldn't have done anything.....







Like John Degenkolb taking a beer on the 2nd way up today......


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

The feeding thing is making me uncomfortable in a number of ways.

1) Froome still races in a very naive way. he started to look grey about 10k out but feeding was only banned from 6k, so why didn't he take food prior to that. Why did he make a surge 9k out, pointless, same as chasing Contador downhill.
2) He has evaded taking responsibility for breaking the rules and still is, arguing it was Porte who fed, not him, that the team car had a mechanical. Just stop and hold your hand up.
3) The wider implications of this seem to have eluded him. Suddenly he looks less credible when he says things

This is making me squirm a bit in embarrassment for him.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> The feeding thing is making me uncomfortable in a number of ways.
> 
> 1) Froome still races in a very naive way. he started to look grey about 10k out but feeding was only banned from 6k, so why didn't he take food prior to that. Why did he make a surge 9k out, pointless, same as chasing Contador downhill.
> 2) He has evaded taking responsibility for breaking the rules and still is, arguing it was Porte who fed, not him, that the team car had a mechanical. Just stop and hold your hand up.
> ...


Yes, for a team where every detail counts, apparently, an illegal feed would seem quite basic, and he should just MTFU and take the penalty.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> The feeding thing is making me uncomfortable in a number of ways.
> 
> 1) Froome still races in a very naive way. he started to look grey about 10k out but feeding was only banned from 6k, so why didn't he take food prior to that. Why did he make a surge 9k out, pointless, same as chasing Contador downhill.
> 2) He has evaded taking responsibility for breaking the rules and still is, arguing it was Porte who fed, not him, that the team car had a mechanical. Just stop and hold your hand up.
> ...


 
Is he challenging the ruling ? I thought he was quite open about what happened and unlikely to challenge - he pointed out he'd been hindered from their planned feeding point I think but was he trying to argue that it was ok ? Part of the reason to ask Porte to get the food would be because Porte himself had more energy.


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Nothing illegal going on , I heard talk of switching to carbon rims after the potentially rough descent befroe the 2nd climb (from ally hoops)


 
it was Daniel Lloyd on eurosport that suggested the bike weighing check and the sudden mechanical by Berty.

there could be many reasons to change, but it mattered not, Berty was stuffed today.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Is he challenging the ruling ? I thought he was quite open about what happened and unlikely to challenge - he pointed out he'd been hindered from their planned feeding point I think but was he trying to argue that it was ok ? Part of the reason to ask Porte to get the food would be because Porte himself had more energy.


He's questioning it, as for hindered, what the whole time from valley to 6k.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> He's questioning it, as for hindered, what the whole time from valley to 6k.


He said there had been a mechanical with the car - just about ambiguous enough to refer to the car being occupied dealing with a rider having a mechanical or to a mechanical issue with the car itself.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


>


 
I wasn't joking! I'm sure I remember reading something about someone using weighted bidons many years ago... <googles> Jean Robic!

http://redkiteprayer.com/tag/jean-robic/

I'm sure the UCI would ban round wheels if they could find a pretext for doing so.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I doubt any team (or rider) would seriously imperil their safety for a slender advantage.


 
GW1516


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> He's questioning it, as for hindered, what the whole time from valley to 6k.


 
Well personally I don't think he has a case within the rules and it is a waste of time and energy complaining.

On a different note, as much as Riblon's win is great for France,I feel for Tejay, in particular because of his dodgy gears on the Sarenne descent.
I guess that is just the way things break for you


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Surely it was well worth taking the 20 second hit for the sake of not risking losing minutes at the finish line.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Part of the reason to ask Porte to get the food would be because Porte himself had more energy.


 
Porte was certainly impressive, and fulfilled his duties graciously; the same can not be said of Wiggo's lieutenant last year.


----------



## DogTired (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> He said there had been a mechanical with the car - just about ambiguous enough to refer to the car being occupied dealing with a rider having a mechanical or to a mechanical issue with the car itself.


 
Apparently Berties mechanic also services Sky's car...


----------



## tug benson (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Nice words from Froome on Quintana. Class.


Ended up going out on my bike after today's stage so I missed the interviews.... What did froome say??


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2013)

tug benson said:


> Ended up going out on my bike after today's stage so I missed the interviews.... What did froome say??


He needed sugar, car had a mechanical problem so hadn't been able to feed in the allowed zone, he was also generous towards Quintana, with a special mention for Richie Porte.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Surely it was well worth taking the 20 second hit for the sake of not risking losing minutes at the finish line.


 Just one of Sky's marginal gains


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

Let's be under no illusions when you hit the wall you stop very quickly. Sky were warned, then broke the rules. In any other sport you'd be excluded wouldn't you ?


----------



## Paul99 (18 Jul 2013)

My thoughts for Froomes feed today.

He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?

I do not think he has used anything banned or otherwise, but I can't believe he suddenly had nothing left today. I wonder how well he goes tomorrow.


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Let's be under no illusions when you hit the wall you stop very quickly. Sky were warned, then broke the rules. In any other sport you'd be excluded wouldn't you ?


 
Do you think UEFA will throw Real Madrid out of the Champions League after the spending cap comes into law?


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> My thoughts for Froomes feed today.
> 
> He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
> Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?
> ...


 
I think as well as Richie Porte working with him he now has Quintana as an ally in the run in.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> I do not think he has used anything banned or otherwise, but I can't believe he suddenly had nothing left today. I wonder how well he goes tomorrow.



Even riders swimming in EPO sometimes bonk. It's a temporary event, not an indication of overall condition when it happens.


----------



## redcard (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> My thoughts for Froomes feed today.
> 
> He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
> Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?
> ...



Yeah, it was staged. The drug testers will now never test him again, cos they don't really need to.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> My thoughts for Froomes feed today.
> 
> He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
> Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?
> ...


Nah, Armstrong bonked on a climb and lost two minutes. PED's have nothing to do with fuelling.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> My thoughts for Froomes feed today.
> 
> He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
> Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?
> ...


I wasn't bl**dy staged ! he hit the wall and it could have ended in tears. At the least Porte should be excluded.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Do you think UEFA will throw Real Madrid out of the Champions League after the spending cap comes into law?


You don't follow these threads closely do you ?


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> I think as well as Richie Porte working with him he now has Quintana as an ally in the run in.


 What ?


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> You don't follow these threads closely do you ?


 
Yeah but in ignorance.


----------



## redcard (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> You don't follow these threads closely do you ?



Does it matter if he is in your clique or not? Your original premise was pretty ridiculous and inherently incorrect,


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> What ?


 
Quintana wants/deserves second place, he helps froome, froome helps him first and second sorted Contador third at best. Simples.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> He said there had been a mechanical with the car - just about ambiguous enough to refer to the car being occupied dealing with a rider having a mechanical or to a mechanical issue with the car itself.


Skodas - never had a breakdown in 10 years, apparently. Jaguar cannot now make that claim !


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Well personally I don't think he has a case within the rules and it is a waste of time and energy complaining.
> 
> On a different note, as much as Riblon's win is great for France,I feel for Tejay, in particular because of his dodgy gears on the Sarenne descent.
> I guess that is just the way things break for you


dodgy gears were cancelled out by riblon going for a wee paddle


----------



## tigger (18 Jul 2013)

Hmm, I wondering whether both Quintana and Purito can take the final 2 podium spots? That would be a very worthy podium I think. And this is coming from someone with a guilty secret liking for Bertie!


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> Does it matter if he is in your clique or not? Your original premise was pretty ridiculous and inherently incorrect,


 
Care to point the clique Im in first off ? When you ve explained that, I ll explain ( in pictures if you want ) about my thoughts on spending caps, tho' if you followed these threads you would allready be familiar with my position. Would you not ?


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Quintana wants/deserves second place, he helps froome, froome helps him first and second sorted Contador third at best. Simples.


So in your reckoning Froome helps his closest contender ?


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2013)

Do I owe Lopez an apology after he finally, apparently, showed his face at the front end? Sorry Dave!
I was ultimately overwhelmed by my loco parentis duties...






I hope @Herzog fared better!


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jul 2013)

Now, see what you do is: you have a little basket on the handlebars (wicker loosely woven is very aerodynamic) and in it you have your 40 bananas then there would be no more bonking and you may even have some energy left for bonking. 'Simples' as the nobbers say.


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> So in your reckoning Froome helps his closest contender ?


 
Yeah, i don't think he can take the time required out of Froome in two days, maybe he thinks the same. Froome has looked too strong up until today. Why wouldn't he go for second place? He'll clearly win the tour at some point in the future baring incident and second place at his age is a fairly outrageous feather to have in your cap. Also he'll be owed a fairly large favour by the strongest ride in the world at the moment.


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Yeah, i don't think he can take the time required out of Froome in two days, maybe he thinks the same. Froome has looked too strong up until today. Why wouldn't he go for second place? He'll clearly win the tour at some point in the future baring incident and second place at his age is a fairly outrageous feather to have in your cap. Also he'll be owed a fairly large favour by the strongest ride in the world at the moment.


 
Edit, apparently i read your post completly wrong. Why wouldn't Froome help him given the fact Quintana may have the mindset i outlined above?


----------



## Paul99 (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Even riders swimming in EPO sometimes bonk. It's a temporary event, not an indication of overall condition when it happens.





redcard said:


> Yeah, it was staged. The drug testers will now never test him again, cos they don't really need to.





lukesdad said:


> I wasn't bl**dy staged ! he hit the wall and it could have ended in tears. At the least Porte should be excluded.





Crackle said:


> Nah, Armstrong bonked on a climb and lost two minutes. PED's have nothing to do with fuelling.


 
Cheers for your comments! Didn't know the PED's would make no difference to someone bonking. Learnt something today at least 

Although when he has had a stonking day this thread has been full of comments regarding is he / isn't he , today nothing. Has it taken the spotlight off him a bit. Only my thoughts, you are probably all right.

And he is my new hero, so I refuse to believe he could bonk.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Do I owe Lopez an apology after he finally, apparently, showed his face at the front end? Sorry Dave!
> I was ultimately overwhelmed by my loco parentis duties...
> 
> 
> ...


Rabobank junior training camp Rich ?


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

re: the Froome feeding fandango, surely it is a case of working to the rule, calculating that you get more of an advantage out of breaking the rule and taking the punishment, than not breaking the rule and have Froome stop and push the rest of the way (I might have exaggerated slightly). This isn't cheating, it was just a tactical calculation. To give a footballing analogy, players will often accept a yellow card when deliberately taking out another player to stop a counter-attack. This is exactly the same. There was no attempt to evade the rule or to cheat, it was very blatant.

The entire penalty seems silly to me anyway. I only started following cycling last year, and was not aware of the rule before today, but someone explained that the rule does not exist to stop riders feeding during the last portion of the race, but to stop them getting an advantage by riding along, holding the car for a brief period. Froome went no-where near the car, so even if he benefited from the infraction committed by Porte in terms of getting the gel, he did not get any benefit from holding onto the car.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> Although when he has had a stonking day this thread has been full of comments regarding is he / isn't he , today nothing.



Yeah, funny that, isn't it. Bertie's motorbike provided a useful distraction today.


----------



## gavroche (18 Jul 2013)

So happy today thanks for my countryman winning the most prestigious stage of the tdf. Christophe Riblon, you are a star! I felt the pain in your legs and admire your courage for beating the best of the field. France has now won this stage for 2 years running.


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## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Edit, apparently i read your post completly wrong. Why wouldn't Froome help him given the fact Quintana may have the mindset i outlined above?


Well as Quintana is looking the most likely, you have answered your own question "he may have the mindset" then again he might not eh ? There are no gifts in the tour.


----------



## zizou (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Let's be under no illusions when you hit the wall you stop very quickly. Sky were warned, then broke the rules. In any other sport you'd be excluded wouldn't you ?


 
Riders are fined for this sort of thing on virtually every mountain stage (although it is usually just a fine rather than a time deduction). If they were to start excluding riders for infringements like this half the peloton would be missing!


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> re: the Froome feeding fandango, surely it is a case of working to the rule, calculating that you get more of an advantage out of breaking the rule and taking the punishment, than not breaking the rule and have Froome stop and push the rest of the way (I might have exaggerated slightly). This isn't cheating, it was just a tactical calculation. To give a footballing analogy, players will often accept a yellow card when deliberately taking out another player to stop a counter-attack. This is exactly the same. There was no attempt to evade the rule or to cheat, it was very blatant.
> 
> The entire penalty seems silly to me anyway. I only started following cycling last year, and was not aware of the rule before today, but someone explained that the rule does not exist to stop riders feeding during the last portion of the race, but to stop them getting an advantage by riding along, holding the car for a brief period. Froome went no-where near the car, so even if he benefited from the infraction committed by Porte in terms of getting the gel, he did not get any benefit from holding onto the car.


 
Youll find drug cheats have been working on the premise of your first sentence for years.


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> Riders are fined for this sort of thing on virtually every mountain stage (although it is usually just a fine rather than a time deduction). If they were to start excluding riders for infringements like this half the peloton would be missing!


 
^^^^^ this

look at the points list, some have negative points, it's for rule infringements. sheesh, anyone would think Froorte got off their bikes and ate a nun. it was a bidon and some gels from the team car.

if it is a very hot day the feed rule is relaxed anyway... it's not a huge deal, hence the small time penalty.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Youll find drug cheats have been working on the premise of your first sentence for years.


 

The difference is that they try to evade the law, hide what they are doing, rather than openly breach it and take the hit. There was no deception on behalf of Team Sky, they didn't try to conceal the transfer, they were honest at the finish.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

zizou said:


> Riders are fined for this sort of thing on virtually every mountain stage (although it is usually just a fine rather than a time deduction). If they were to start excluding riders for infringements like this half the peloton would be missing!


 
Yeah I know and that would spoil you re viewing pleasure wouldn't it. Break a rule here break one there who cares they can afford it. Tell me where do you exactly draw the line on rule breaking ?


----------



## 400bhp (18 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> My thoughts for Froomes feed today.
> 
> He has thrashed everybody up all the major climbs thus far. And everybody suspects he is using something.
> Today the usual down to the last detail planning of Team Sky had gone AWOL, and Froome "bonks". Was it staged? Does it make him appear normal?
> ...


 

Quoted so we can poke fun at this in future.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

Its the leader of a grand tour on perhaps its most crucial stage FFS not some domestique in the Tour down under !


----------



## 400bhp (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Yeah I know and that would spoil you re viewing pleasure wouldn't it. Break a rule here break one there who cares they can afford it. Tell me where do you exactly draw the line on rule breaking ?


 

when it's material?


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Its the leader of a grand tour on perhaps its most crucial stage FFS not some domestique in the Tour down under !


 
so the rules and penalties should differ as to the rider. interesting. what colour is the Sky in your world


----------



## themosquitoking (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Yeah I know and that would spoil you re viewing pleasure wouldn't it. Break a rule here break one there who cares they can afford it. Tell me where do you exactly draw the line on rule breaking ?


 
Somewhere to the left of your stance i suspect.


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> when it's material?


Ever hit the wall on alpe duez 5ks from the summit ? .... I thought not !


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> so the rules and penalties should differ as to the rider. interesting. what colour is the Sky in your world


 Black


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2013)

Anyway, bike racing...

My left field tips for tomorrow: Daniel Navarro and Blel Kadri. The inevitable early breakaway will be allowed to stay away.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jul 2013)

All this silly comment about a judgment, and calls for DQ. Pathetic. If there is a danger to the lead, you do what has to be done even if it's a (minor) matter concerning the rules. Usually there is the 50-200 fine, and at last 500 on the team manager, small price. The fines were at the top end of the scales, and the time penalty unusual. That's how it goes. I saw another comment which suggested the time penalty should be the same as the potential loss without taking a gel, and which clever person will second guess that? No-one with more than two brain cells. The rules say what they say about illegal feeds (inside the last 6km today, on a flat stage it's inside the last 20km, despite what was said on ES). Riders and teams will take a penalty because it's a business decision, and it's unlikely that the gel did much more than boost morale anyway, not enough time to fully hit the blood sugar levels.
Message, stop suggesting CF is a "cheat", if he is so is everyone who follows a team car for more than 100 metres, it's all technical offences, and the ones that matter are towing from cars, deliberately trying to cause people to crash or impede them, illegal substances or methods with blood, plus of course the worst of the lot, eating contaminated steak! A bit of reality, please.


----------



## gyorgyigabor (18 Jul 2013)

Alpe d'Huez is a climb to love; one of the most historical ascent of the Tour de France. 
I attache / show my video about La Marmotte bicyclemarathon (174 km + 4900 m with Alpe d'Huez finish), when a cyclist can experience to cycle it in a cycing field and to experience the support of fans, people along the road. That was fantastic feeling


In the video: at 2nd min starts the climb and by the 6th min can seen the situation when fans shouted to me to support...

https://www.cyclechat.net/
https://www.cyclechat.net/
Best regards, 
Gabor


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## 400bhp (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Ever hit the wall on alpe duez 5ks from the summit ? .... I thought not !


 

Yes


----------



## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

oldroadman said:


> All this silly comment about a judgment, and calls for DQ. Pathetic. If there is a danger to the lead, you do what has to be done even if it's a (minor) matter concerning the rules. Usually there is the 50-200 fine, and at last 500 on the team manager, small price. The fines were at the top end of the scales, and the time penalty unusual. That's how it goes. I saw another comment which suggested the time penalty should be the same as the potential loss without taking a gel, and which clever person will second guess that? No-one with more than two brain cells. The rules say what they say about illegal feeds (inside the last 6km today, on a flat stage it's inside the last 20km, despite what was said on ES). Riders and teams will take a penalty because it's a business decision, and it's unlikely that the gel did much more than boost morale anyway, not enough time to fully hit the blood sugar levels.
> Message, stop suggesting CF is a "cheat", if he is so is everyone who follows a team car for more than 100 metres, it's all technical offences, and the ones that matter are towing from cars, deliberately trying to cause people to crash or impede them, illegal substances or methods with blood, plus of course the worst of the lot, eating contaminated steak! A bit of reality, please.


Boost morale, yeah sure.


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> so the rules and penalties should differ as to the rider. interesting. what colour is the Sky in your world


 

Black with a dash of turquoise...


----------



## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Is it illegal to feed during the last 6k, even if he already had the gel in his back pocket from an earlier, permitted time?


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jul 2013)

It seems that a little clarification is in order: Froome was suffering from hypoglycemia, a condition that is dangerous to his health and could have ended his race, his support obtained the necessary antidote and he finished the stage. Porte picked up some gels NOT rocket fuel or anything else that would give him an unfair advantage.


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## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> Yes


In that case you know the result then. Care to enlighten everyone else ?


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## lukesdad (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Is it illegal to feed during the last 6k, even if he already had the gel in his back pocket from an earlier, permitted time?


No


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## 400bhp (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> In that case you know the result then. Care to enlighten everyone else ?


 

No


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## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2013)

lukesdad, with that level of ignorance, you might want want to consider commenting on the cyclingnews forum, you'd fit right in there...

Sky knew what they were doing. It was a calculation based on the penalty under the rules versus the time that might have been lost otherwise (let alone the risk of not finishing). Everyone does this. Calling for people to be excluded for an infringement that has a 20-second penalty is just silly, and calling someone who does this a cheat is worse.

And listen to oldroadman - he's actually raced professionally.


----------



## laurence (18 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, bike racing...
> 
> My left field tips for tomorrow: Daniel Navarro and Blel Kadri. The inevitable early breakaway will be allowed to stay away.


 
Euskaltel in the break.

think saxo are stuffed, so they'll 'let' a break go, as will Sky. Movistar might try something to get Quincy up the GC and then it could get messy.

Evans to go for a long one? a final chance for glory.


----------



## Andrew Br (19 Jul 2013)

Would the Sky/Froome penalty have been monetary only if they'd not been flouting the rules by taking bottles/food within the last 20km in earlier stages ? I think so.
Will Froome and each domestique (Porte especially) be given extra gels towards the end of stages with an "Emergency Only" sticker on them ? I expect so.

Thanks for the input and analysis of the stages; I've managed to watch most of them, sometime in "catch-up" mode and I've appreciated the extra info that you've supplied.

Any news on bike weight irregularities ?

.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2013)

When you look at the times up the Alpe second-time around, the suspicious figures are not from Froome or the stage winner, Riblon (who was actually relatively slow at over 43 minutes), but Quintana and Rodriguez. They are also more remarkable than Froome because they seem to be getting better during the race not dropping off in performance (which Froome clearly is) or trying to ride into better form and failing (Contador). That's not to say that are definitely on something - Rodriguez, for example, has clearly been saving himself for the final week, if such a thing is possible. Mind you, no-one this time was anywhere near the best times of Pantani (under 37 minutes!)...


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2013)

Dear Lord!!! Have you nobbers got nothing better to do than bleat on about banning someone? For a pishy minor matter. Seriously, it'll not be long before someone starts a thread asking for fans to be banned...oops, too late!


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## raindog (19 Jul 2013)

_"Unauthorised refreshments"_
http://www.kspzkol.pl/pliki/12e.pdf
- in the first 50 km of stage CHF200 & 50 secs
- in the last 20 km of stage CHF200 and 20 secs per offence
Why is such a fuss being made? This thread went bonkers last night. The race officials have given the correct penalty for a technical infringement - end of.
FFS.


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Do I owe Lopez an apology after he finally, apparently, showed his face at the front end? Sorry Dave!
> I was ultimately overwhelmed by my loco parentis duties...
> 
> 
> ...


 

My wife unexpectedly arrived home and I was set free! You'll get your reward I'm sure for missing such a cracking stage...perhaps uninterrupted viewing of today's beast...?


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> On a different note, as much as Riblon's win is great for France,I feel for Tejay, in particular because of his dodgy gears on the Sarenne descent.
> I guess that is just the way things break for you


I doubt Tejay lost the stage due to that mech - I think he simply ran out of steam in the last few ks. I think his chain jumped off going over a bump and jammed and he managed to fix it himself and carry on - doubt he lost that much time.

Funnily enough, Riblon was bloody lucky with his off-road stint - that could've been a lot worse.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (19 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> My wife unexpectedly arrived home and I was set free! You'll get your reward I'm sure for missing such a cracking stage...perhaps uninterrupted viewing of today's beast...?


I really don't see the conflict. This is where I'll be watching the tour's final stage with my granddaughter:


----------



## themosquitoking (19 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I really don't see the conflict. This is where I'll be watching the tour's final stage with my granddaughter:


 

You want to get her away from drinking her beer with a straw asap.


----------



## DogTired (19 Jul 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Yeah I know and that would spoil you re viewing pleasure wouldn't it. Break a rule here break one there who cares they can afford it. Tell me where do you exactly draw the line on rule breaking ?


 
It seems excessive for a complete ban for feeding in the last 6k or his electric bike, but where he should be thrown out is his blatant disregard for wearing the proper attire. HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CONSISTENTLY WEARS A YELLOW TOP AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. 10 days now and he's still not been banned.

When they discovered that Lance Armstrong did that as well they they took his wins away. <cough> eventually...


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Moving on....

Apparently Mollema was quite ill yesterday (morning) and he was even "happy" to have stayed so close... there is talk about him not starting today if it's not better


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, bike racing...
> 
> My left field tips for tomorrow: Daniel Navarro and Blel Kadri. The inevitable early breakaway will be allowed to stay away.


I like the Kadri gamble, but personally feel he might have attacked too much already to be able to finish it off... can't see Navarro doing much though

My right field guesses for today: Fedrigo (my French guess) and De Clercq (patriotic desperation)


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

I like Frankie: "Contador is not the rider he was before his ban..."

People are talking about Froome weakening a little but I don't see the evidence quite yet - bonking yesterday was just a race management error rather than an indicator of form. The Madeleine won't be a piece of cake today though...


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> "Contador is not the rider he was before his ban..."


 
Nothing new in that statement  ... still like his attacking style though


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Nothing new in that statement  ... still like his attacking style though


 

Indeed, on descents and climbs - it's always nice to see and shows he's willing to race!


----------



## Andrew_P (19 Jul 2013)

PEN's (Perfromance Enhancing Needles) Ban him! 


" Drastic measures for regeneration! This better help! Also had needles in many other places.... Now good night everyone"


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> When you look at the times up the Alpe second-time around, the suspicious figures are not from Froome or the stage winner, Riblon (who was actually relatively slow at over 43 minutes), but Quintana and Rodriguez. They are also more remarkable than Froome because they seem to be getting better during the race not dropping off in performance (which Froome clearly is) or trying to ride into better form and failing (Contador). That's not to say that are definitely on something - Rodriguez, for example, has clearly been saving himself for the final week, if such a thing is possible. Mind you, no-one this time was anywhere near the best times of Pantani (under 37 minutes!)...


His performance looks right, he's come in in top form, the others haven't and it's cost them, Rodriguez wasn't targetting the Tour. In terms of suspicion, as you say, Quintana ranks higher than Froome on yesterdays performance but again, as noted, the times were credible.

Yesterdays stage was excellent and Riblon's win one for the annals of Tour history, one he won't ever forget either.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Just read Voight came in 15 minutes down and he was still, what, 2 mins ahead of the Yellow Jersey at 12K? I can't quite recall and he suddenly disappeared out of comentary, so I was wondering what happened to him.


----------



## MisterStan (19 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Just read Voight came in 15 minutes down and he was still, what, 2 mins ahead of the Yellow Jersey at 12K? I can't quite recall and he suddenly disappeared out of comentary, so I was wondering what happened to him.


 
He didn't make it back to the Team Sky car for gels?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

Meanwhile, a scandal is brewing....


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Another early TV start and no Li'l George today. I'll get back to work on Monday, honest!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

go Elvis !!!!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> My right field guesses for today: Fedrigo (my French guess) and De Clercq (patriotic desperation)


 
Ha! I nearly went for Fedrigo myself.

Trivial anecdote about today's route: on the way up the final climb of the day, they pass through the village of Manigod, which I passed through many years ago while cycling in the Alps with a couple of mates. We spent the afternoon in the bar there, chatting up the local ladies, RichP style. Schoolboy error. We thought we had loads of time in hand but we'd underestimated the distance between A and B, so we ended up camping near the top of the Col de Croix Fry (today's final summit) - really didn't fancy descending in the dark... We asked at a hotel if we could pitch our tents in their grounds and they said yes, albeit very grudgingly. But then in the morning they brought us coffee and freshly baked brioche for breakfast, free of charge... Dammit, I flipping love cycling in the Alps. Want to go back there.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

I'd have stayed the night with the ladies, Smutch!


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Apart from that day in the Pyrenees, Richie Porte has been a very impressive lieutenant to Froome.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

Stats time.... alpe climb times (2nd ascent)
1. Nairo Quintana (Movistar) 0:39:49 
2. Joaquim Rodriguez (Katusha) 0:39:52 
3. Richie Porte (Sky) 0:40:55 
4. Christopher Froome (Sky) 0:40:55 
5. Alejandro Valverde (Movistar) 0:40:59 
6. Alberto Contador (Saxo) 0:41:52 
... 
9. Roman Kreuziger (Saxo) 0:42:08 
13. Christophe Riblon (AG2R) 0:43:01 
21. Bauke Mollema (Belkin) 0:43:50

Quite a slow time for the winner on the day.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I'd have stayed the night with the ladies, Smutch!


 
There was one young lady I was chatting to in particular... can't remember her name now but I do still remember her shapely posterior, which she wiggled provocatively at me as I rode off up the slopes, never to see her again... It wouldn't have taken much at that moment to persuade me to stop there for the rest of my holiday. *sigh*

I'd have missed the cracking descent off the Croix Fry the next morning though. Not the one they're going down today - we went down the other side towards Chamonix. Not at all technical, just very, very fast...


----------



## jifdave (19 Jul 2013)

anyone got a telly link or radio link for today, im confined to my office upstairs so need to stream something.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> anyone got a telly link or radio link for today, im confined to my office upstairs so need to stream something.


 
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/stages/stage19/


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> anyone got a telly link or radio link for today, im confined to my office upstairs so need to stream something.


go here and choose cycling..then todays TDF stage then take your pick...


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Adam Hansen on how not to bonk...


and Sagan on the same subject


----------



## jifdave (19 Jul 2013)

Talking of petey sag... 
View: http://youtu.be/6J7rbKn-Jkc


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

glad to see we are getting some temps écossais


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

It's not in minus figures is it...?


----------



## bridgy (19 Jul 2013)

After needing and getting such selfless and dedicated help from Porte at the end of that stage, I wonder if Froome is reflecting on the way he behaved at times towards Wiggins in last year's tour? Would he have been happy if Porte had tried to disappear up the hill (potentially before he needed him to go back for the gels) because he had more energy than Froome on the day?

I am a fan of Froome, but I think yesterday puts some of last year's controversies with Wiggins into perspective...


----------



## Paul99 (19 Jul 2013)

bridgy said:


> After needing and getting such selfless and dedicated help from Porte at the end of that stage, I wonder if Froome is reflecting on the way he behaved at times towards Wiggins in last year's tour? Would he have been happy if Porte had tried to disappear up the hill (potentially before he needed him to go back for the gels) because he had more energy than Froome on the day?
> 
> I am a fan of Froome, but I think yesterday puts some of last year's controversies with Wiggins into perspective...


Bit of a difference though. RP is ages behind CF time wise and has no chance of winning the TDF. CF last year probably could have beaten BW.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Is that Cav leading Kwiatowski on the descent of the Glandon ahead of the peloton!!! Blimey!


----------



## fimm (19 Jul 2013)

I'm really nervous about this stage, especailly after yesterday. I don't think this Tour is over yet... (I would be very happy to be proved wrong...)


----------



## 400bhp (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Adam Hansen on how not to bonk...
> 
> View attachment 26461
> 
> ...


 
I know it's a bit of fun but can you imagine if there was some illicit substance in that


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> I know it's a bit of fun but can you imagine if there was some illicit substance in that


Since I guess it was Dutch beer, no need to fear for any alcohol in it


----------



## 400bhp (19 Jul 2013)

Hope he didn't accept any chocolate "cakes"


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> My right field guesses for today: Fedrigo (my French guess) and De Clercq (patriotic desperation)


Wooow, just realized I had a typo there I meant Rolland instead of Fedrigo... yeah, those letters are so close together on my keyboard 

(Still got a chance with De Clercq though)


----------



## oldroadman (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Adam Hansen on how not to bonk...
> 
> View attachment 26461
> 
> ...


 
Who would deny the working domestique a little light moment with the fans, see the smile behind as well. Just remember they are still having to climb the Alpe, though. It can be a lovely life when the work is done for the day and all you have to do is get inside the time limit.


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

I believe Hesjedal isn't really thinking about what is still ahead of him ... did he just went off on his own?!?


----------



## oldroadman (19 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> _"Unauthorised refreshments"_
> http://www.kspzkol.pl/pliki/12e.pdf
> - in the first 50 km of stage CHF200 & 50 secs
> - in the last 20 km of stage CHF200 and 20 secs per offence
> ...


 Spot on. The rule concerns the taking of bottles and food/gels from cars. Whatever is in your pockets is fine. In a lot of cases, the radio tour speaker will broadcast to all team cars when it's about 30km to go, just so they have a chance to get their feeds and bottles in before the 20km point. In the case of mountain top finishes, the commissaires can reduce the distance so that the time without team car support is about the same, so it all works out and is safer - plus it stops any silly things happening with cars. They can still come up to talk if the commissaires let them, but nothing has to pass from car to rider.
But think, a domestique plugging along with 15km to go, running out of gas, the second car gives him a bottle and gel to get to the finish 15 minutes down. No effect on the race. Is that a problem? Not if a commissaire does not see it! I think even if they do there is a fair bit of "so what" covering of eyes, and a lot of common sense applied. Which may surprise some posters, who think they are a heartless load of "blazers" (I never saw a commissaire wearing one).


----------



## Spinney (19 Jul 2013)

Did I hear the ITV commentary correctly - after going over a big climb, Cav is in a group _ahead_ of the main peloton?


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> Did I hear the ITV commentary correctly - after going over a big climb, Cav is in a group _ahead_ of the main peloton?


Yep, he is Kwiatek's Porte for the day

EDIT: but not quite sure what Kwiatek has in mind though, he's a bit late with his action


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> There's a potential 106 points on offer in Friday's stage. Rolland's best/only chance will be to get in an early breakaway and mop up as many of those points as possible.


 
He got 12pts off the first climb and looks a good bet to get the 25pts for the second climb...

Surely he's too far behind in the points table now though? Must be going for the stage win.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Wooow, just realized I had a typo there I meant Rolland instead of Fedrigo... yeah, those letters are so close together on my keyboard
> 
> (Still got a chance with De Clercq though)


 
Navarro's in the escape too. Though if the gap gets much bigger, the peloton might start worrying about him and Nieve being a threat on GC...


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Lovely moment between Ryder and Pierre just then. BFFs - for the duration of the descent, at least.


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Navarro's in the escape too. Though if the gap gets much bigger, the peloton might start worrying about him and Nieve being a threat on GC...


Anyway, if I would be Katusha and looking to get Rodriguez on the podium, I would start making a hell of a tempo on the 3rd last climb and have Rodriguez start the attacks on that steep 2nd last climb (so that Contador and/or Quintana could get isolated and dropped on the last climb)

... so the minutes should be getting down rather quickly then


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Anyway, if I would be Katusha and looking to get Rodriguez on the podium, I would start making a hell of a tempo on the 3rd last climb and have Rodriguez start the attacks on that steep 2nd last climb (so that Contador and/or Quintana could get isolated and dropped on the last climb)
> 
> ... so the minutes should be getting down rather quickly then


 
Agreed - Rodriguez is the one GC boy I can see trying something on today.

Contador might if he has the legs, but I don't think he has.


----------



## bridgy (19 Jul 2013)

Paul99 said:


> Bit of a difference though. RP is ages behind CF time wise and has no chance of winning the TDF. CF last year probably could have beaten BW.


 

Fair point (which I nearly made myself!) but even assuming Porte hadn't lost that time in previous stages and was in a similar position to Froome vs Wiggins last year would that make Froome any less grateful/reliant on the help Porte gave him yesterday? I think not. In fact I think he'd have been (rightfully) rather p****d off if that was the scenario and Porte did to him what he did to Wiggins when he's the stated leader of the team (as Wiggins was last year).


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Agreed - Rodriguez is the one GC boy I can see trying something on today.


 
Yep, he put two minutes into Contador yesterday and is only 47 secs away from a podium. I can't see Quintana cracking but Contador and Kreuziger could.


----------



## ayceejay (19 Jul 2013)

"The Madeleine won't be a piece of cake today though..."


----------



## theloafer (19 Jul 2013)

it sure wont .. think they are going down the way I went over in 2009


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

In other news, Tom Veelers having taken over as Lanterne Rouge yesterday has abandoned today. seems a bit of a drastic way to salvage ones self respect!


----------



## Beebo (19 Jul 2013)

what is the CC concensus on Ryder Hesjedal's sun glasses?
I'm not sure I like them.


----------



## bridgy (19 Jul 2013)

Beebo said:


> what is the CC concensus on Ryder Hesjedal's sun glasses?
> I'm not sure I like them.


 
A bit Timmy Mallet aren't they?!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Blimey, I've just got back from lunch and it looks like Rolland is really going for it! Good lad.


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Not convinced that Rolland's best impression of Virenque will have success
(on both the polka dot jersey or the stage win)


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

bridgy said:


> A bit Timmy Mallet aren't they?!


He's pinched them off Cav


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Is anyone going to animate this stage on the GC?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Not convinced that Rolland's best impression of Virenque will have success
> (on both the polka dot jersey or the stage win)


 
Ha! I thought about making the Virenque comparison but I actually *like* Rolland.

I agree that it won't succeed though.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

or shall I go and paint the porch?


----------



## fimm (19 Jul 2013)

The chap doing the BBC Sport text commentary has just said that there's not much action... so everything's going to kick off any moment now.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Is anyone going to animate this stage on the GC?


 
I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. Quintana needs a summit finish, Contador doesn't appear to have the legs. Purito might try a late attack though.

And that's my "expert" opinion.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. Quintana needs a summit finish, Contador doesn't appear to have the legs. Purito might try a late attack though.
> 
> And that's my "expert" opinion.


Maybe Quintana will have a go on the Col de la Croix Fry or even the Epine if he feels good


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Maybe Quintana will have a go on the Col de la Croix Fry or even the Epine if he feels good


It's the only place but I reckon it could backfire on him and maybe he knows that.


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Navarro's in the escape too. Though if the gap gets much bigger, the peloton might start worrying about him and Nieve being a threat on GC...


Both of us still looking good with our guess  (although I don't like the fact that Nieve is there as well)


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

I reckon Quintana has his eye on tomorrow's stage. The final climb looks a bit hurty...


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I reckon Quintana has his eye on tomorrow's stage. The final climb looks a bit hurty...


Just a little bit


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

ayceejay said:


> "The Madeleine won't be a piece of cake today though..."
> View attachment 26468


I claim a TMN for that line ;-)


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

We're looking forward to tomorrow when today is not yet done...been a belter of a stage so far ain't it? (Waiting in hope for the Col de la Croix Fry)


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Funny fact:
De Gendt is currently riding between the peloton and the bus... when asked why, he said:"The peloton is descending too fast, so I take some advantage in the ascents"... he's a special guy him


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Maybe Quintana will have a go on the Col de la Croix Fry or even the Epine if he feels good


I expect he'll go on the col de l'epine if he feel he's got the shoulders to carry it off


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Both of us still looking good with our guess  (although I don't like the fact that Nieve is there as well)


 
Guess!?!? Take that back, varlet! My expert prediction is based on countless hours of careful study of the form guide and parcours, and many years of following professional cycling.

(I'm not fooling anyone, am I? Damn.)


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I claim a TMN for that line ;-)


 

You were too subtle


----------



## ayceejay (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I claim a TMN for that line ;-)


I did put it in quotes Thom but forgot to credit you. We can share the 'likes', fair?


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> You were too subtle


Not for the first time ... nobody has got my epine = shoulder pun either


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Not for the first time ... nobody has got my epine = shoulder pun either


I was ignoring it, though I was thinking of getting someone to carry you off.


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Not for the first time ... nobody has got my epine = shoulder pun either


 
You're wasted here


----------



## Dave Davenport (19 Jul 2013)

After nearly three weeks I'm generally favouring ITV despite the P & P numptyness. That Kirby bloke on ES is really getting on my wick, no one gives a toss about your personal opinions you tosspot!


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Saxo going for it


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Looks like Bertie fancies it after all. Oo-er!


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> I expect he'll go on the col de l'epine if he feel he's got the shoulders to carry it off


 
That's my prediction too. Didn't get the shoulder joke though!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Not for the first time ... nobody has got my epine = shoulder pun either


 
With such spineless attempts at punning, I think you need a new French dictionary.


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> That's my prediction too. Didn't get the shoulder joke though!


 
épine dorsale= backbone


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I refer to the answer I gave some moments ago.. Purito might try a late attack though.


The Eurosport guy just said if anybody was going to attack today he would have thought it to be Rodriguez....

Does that mean that they are improving their knowledge about what's going on
or does that mean that you/we are just (getting) as thick are they are?


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

Dodgy sticky bottle/gels there


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> The Eurosport guy just said if anybody was going to attack today he would have thought it to be Rodriguez....
> 
> Does that mean that they are improving their knowledge about what's going on
> or does that mean that you/we are just (getting) as thick are they are?


 
It means they're reading the forum!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> He got 12pts off the first climb and looks a good bet to get the 25pts for the second climb...
> 
> Surely he's too far behind in the points table now though? Must be going for the stage win.


 
Blimey, looks like he actually has a chance of nabbing the jersey after all!


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> With such spineless attempts at punning, I think you need a new French dictionary.


ffs that's slightly embarrassing ... I could have sworn the meaning was shoulder !


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Damn, wish I hadn't liked it now. Epaulet?


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> ffs that's slightly embarrassing ... I could have sworn the meaning was shoulder !


You've let me down Thom. My French is so bad I just assumed you'd got it right. I still don't get the Madeleine joke, must be patisserie related


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Damn, wish I hadn't liked it now. Epaulet?


It was an epaulling effort


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> You've let me down Thom. My French is so bad I just assumed you'd got it right. I still don't get the Madeleine joke, must be patisserie related


It is.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Aussies buggering up their batting too!


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> It was an epaulling effort


 
Yes, not very humerus...


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Froome always looks cooked so it's hard to know when he really is.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Yes, not very humerus...


I was going to disclose that Thom has Basque lover called El Beau but...


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> That's my prediction too. Didn't get the shoulder joke though!


 
Thats my prediction buggered. Oh well, attack on the Croix Fry it is then... something happen please. Its been far too dull by this Tour's standard so far today


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Could Rojas be a jumping target for Quintana?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Charge of the Saxo Tinkoff Brigade.


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> You've let me down Thom. My French is so bad I just assumed you'd got it right. I still don't get the Madeleine joke, must be patisserie related


Apologies. To cheer you up, here are some pics from my cycle ride up the Madeleine:










The cows had a mobile milking shed - the sheep dog had 3 legs. I think the milk is used for Beaufort cheese - really great stuff.






Goats in the valley to Albertville


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Could Rojas be a jumping target for Quintana?


 
There has to be some plan for Movistar with 3 up the road surely?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> Its been far too dull by this Tour's standard so far today


 
No stage in which Ryder's sunnies have featured so prominently can be called dull!

And I'm rather enjoying Rolland's bid for spotty glory too.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Is he in virtual chicken pox jersey yet?


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Is he in virtual chicken pox jersey yet?


Nope, 1 point short I believe


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Is he in virtual chicken pox jersey yet?


 





I'm willing him on to do it now.

The weather could make things interesting!


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> And I'm rather enjoying Rolland's bid for spotty glory too.


Pierre Roll-on - the peloton's best smelling rider.

(ok I'm off to the shops so you guys get a break...)


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

so he should bring home the bacon on the Croix de Fry up?


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

...with a chance of showers later - and now back to the news room


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Hope this doesn't turn out like the Giro-stage where we saw only the last 400m


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Even if he gets the 20pts for the final climb today, Rolland will need to bag some of the intermediate points tomorrow in case Froome nicks the 50pts for the stage win.


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> ...with a chance of showers later - and now back to the news room


 
Right on cue


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Costa's going to win this stage now, isn't he? Damn.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

David Lopez is still there - I may have to eat my helmet again!


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Costa's going to win this stage now, isn't he? Damn.


Costa ten Damn?


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> David Lopez is still there - I may have to eat my helmet again!


It was a pint you owe us wasn't it?


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

Lopez popped


Crackle said:


> It was a pint you owe us wasn't it?


----------



## Warped in storage (19 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> David Lopez is still there - I may have to eat my helmet again!


 

Impressive !
Did you have to get ribs removed to be able to do that ?


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Lopez popped


damn!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

No one can say this isn't exciting with De Clercq and Navarro still keeping the CC Battle Of The Pundits alive!


----------



## Herzog (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> No one can say this isn't exciting with De Clercq and Navarro still keeping the CC Battle Of The Pundits alive!


 
Am I too late to go for Costa?


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2013)

Did someone mention a pint?


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> No one can say this isn't exciting with De Clercq and Navarro still keeping the CC Battle Of The Pundits alive!


Bloody Costa


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> Am I too late to go for Costa?


 
Luckily he's on my FL so I win by default


----------



## Spinney (19 Jul 2013)

Blimey - it's dark there!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Luckily he's on my FL so I win by default


 
Mine too.


----------



## Beebo (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Even if he gets the 20pts for the final climb today, Rolland will need to bag some of the intermediate points tomorrow in case Froome nicks the 50pts for the stage win.


I'd love to see Froome go out with a bang and take the final stage climb, and with it the yellow and spotty tops.


----------



## MisterStan (19 Jul 2013)

Spinney said:


> Blimey - it's dark there!


 
No lights, reflectors or high-vis, tut tut....


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

and Valverde is off...


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

Navarro trying to pull De Clercq out of his wheel... won't work though


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2013)

Has Kloden never been popped as a doper? Amazing!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

Still cant figure out the thinking for Saxo pacing Sky all day and making life awfy easy for them. Must be missing something.


----------



## MichaelM (19 Jul 2013)

Where's Rolland gone? He was out front, I popped out to quickly clean the car, come back and Costa's leading!


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

MichaelM said:


> Where's Rolland gone? He was out front, I popped out to quickly clean the car, come back and Costa's leading!


He decided to stop and quickly clean the teamcar as well...when he got back on the bike, Costa was leading


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks these pale blue Treks look really weedy?


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks these pale blue Treks look really weedy?


 No


----------



## tigger (19 Jul 2013)

Porte's dropping off the back


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks these pale blue Treks look really weedy?


if nothing else they are too close to celeste.


----------



## MisterStan (19 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks these pale blue Treks look really weedy?


 
No. One step away from 'Bianchi Celeste'


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

The GC descent ought o be interesting, but I suspect we shall be dissapointed.


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2013)

MisterStan said:


> No. One step away from 'Bianchi Celeste'


 
I much prefer Celeste.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

It was a bit of a damp squib attack, just testing weren't they, not really going for it, except Valverde.


----------



## Shadow (19 Jul 2013)

Chapeau...pour le deuxieme fois!

And Kloden 2nd - who'd have called that?


----------



## Va Va Froome (19 Jul 2013)

Not as good as yesterday, but that was still a decent watch!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2013)

'kin weird tactics by Saxo, cant figure that out...queens shilling I suspect.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Don't care about the stage winner - Navarro pipped De Clercq, that's all that matters.


----------



## BrumJim (19 Jul 2013)

Went ski-ing at Grand Bornand back in 1988, IIRC. If I mention the name of the supermarket here, it will probably get censored.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Just had a look at the KOM situation. Turns out I completely misread the table so had the points distribution A over T, hence it's only 10pts for a Cat 1, not 20 as I thought. So there's a potential maximum haul of 21pts for the intermediate climbs tomorrow...

If Rolland wins all the intermediate climbs and Froome finishes lower than 6th, Rolland will nab the jersey.*

Don't fancy his chances.

Still, as he's second in the competition and Froome is still in yellow, at least we'll get to see _those_ shorts again tomorrow...







*Edit: actually, any one of the current top five in the competition (Froome, Rolland, Nieve, Quintana, Riblon) could still win it, depending on what order they finish the stage in...


----------



## Stonechat (19 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Still cant figure out the thinking for Saxo pacing Sky all day and making life awfy easy for them. Must be missing something.


 
Given up chasing the maillot jaune, protecting the placings and not wanting Quintana to attack, keep up the pace. Will be interesting tomorrow with mountain finish, Quintana will have to go for it


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

Jose Serpa just retweeted my earlier "Vamos Colombianos!" tweet of encouragement to him. I wonder if he's seen my other recent tweets regarding his team leader. 

Hmmmm.


----------



## laurence (19 Jul 2013)

another good ride from Nieve.

Euskaltel Euskadi are still ahead of Sky in the team competition.... GORA!!!!!


----------



## Spinney (19 Jul 2013)

Is it too mean of me to wish he'd fallen off?


----------



## y2blade (19 Jul 2013)

Anyone else getting fed-up with watching the live Eurosprt broadcasts due to the ridiculous frequency the adverts hit you at?

I've recorded the ITV4 HD highlights show tonight, just watching it now..it's alright actually, by christ didn't it rain on the Tour today!!!!!!


----------



## laurence (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Sagan,
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J7rbKn-Jkc




chapeau!

i can never not like Sagan because he does things such as this.


----------



## laurence (19 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> Anyone else getting fed-up with watching the live Eurosprt broadcasts due to the ridiculous frequency the adverts hit you at?
> 
> I've recorded the ITV4 HD highlights show tonight, just watching it now..it's alright actually, by christ didn't it rain on the Tour today!!!!!!


 
i was getting fed up on the double Alpe stage, but then all the adverts were at the start, when the mountains kicked in there weren't any (or very very few).

ITV4's highlights show is mainly adverts, or so it seems.


----------



## 400bhp (19 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks these pale blue Treks look really weedy?


 

It's to fit in with the team leader.

Bakelants though has to be one of the winners of this tour.


----------



## jifdave (19 Jul 2013)

User said:


> Sagan,
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J7rbKn-Jkc




Stop skim reading.... http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tour-de-france-2013-spoilers.129165/post-2555616


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Don't care about the stage winner - Navarro pipped De Clercq, that's all that matters.


I believe we can call it a draw... we both lost (but with dignity  )


----------



## The Couch (19 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> Anyone else getting fed-up with watching the live Eurosprt broadcasts due to the ridiculous frequency the adverts hit you at?


I am considering flying with Turkish airlines though... it seems that on every flight you've got Kobe Bryant and Messi (and ice cream)


----------



## themosquitoking (19 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> I am considering flying with Turkish airlines though... it seems that on every flight you've got Kobe Bryant and Messi (and ice cream)


 

The ITV4 adverts are making me sing about a fruit based drink that i think tastes like poison.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

The absolute best top story from this years TdF, belongs to The Jensie.
Basically Voigt in no man’s land waiting to be caught, tries to give a bidon to a kid, the kid gets elbowed out of the way by some dude, Voigt sees it, turns around, goes back down the hill a bit and shames the perp to give bidon back to the kid – crowd goes wild! Chapeau Jens !!!
http://video.lequipe.fr/video/2cf051f2b00s.html


----------



## laurence (20 Jul 2013)

years ago, at the TTT in Arras, Robbie Mckewen was walking through the crowd after getting his green jersey, someone tried to nad the bidon from his bike... he turned around, grabbed the bloke and forced him to hand the bidon back... then turned around and handed it to a child standing nearby.

we all clapped Robbie.

the kid was gobsmacked - really. just stood there with his mouth wide open!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Svein Tuft has taken over the Lanterne Rouge after the withdrawal of Tom Veelers.
That is all.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Anyway, Froome is impregnable barring an act of god so it's really about the fight for the minor placings today. A break may stay away but will Quintana or J-Rod attack on the penultimate climb, or leave it to the Semnoz?
The Revard is 15.9km long but only 5.6% so maybe not steep enough to distance Contador, for instance. Quintana needs 21 seconds on Bert to take over 2nd place and Purito is a further 26 secs back.
I hope it kicks off before the last climb but Quintana may reckon he can get enough time on the Semnoz @ 8.5% for 10.7km.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> The absolute best top story from this years TdF, belongs to The Jensie.


The story is actually from last year's Tour. He wrote about it on his blog. Fantastic anecdote.
Everyone loves Jens.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

Movistar have published SRM data from yesterday's stage:
http://www.srm.de/news/road-cycling/le-tour-de-france-stage-19/

If I didn't already feel inadequate just watching these guys, I certainly do now.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Anyway, Froome is impregnable barring an act of god so it's really about the fight for the minor placings today. A break may stay away but will Quintana or J-Rod attack on the penultimate climb, or leave it to the Semnoz?
> The Revard is 15.9km long but only 5.6% so maybe not steep enough to distance Contador, for instance. Quintana needs 21 seconds on Bert to take over 2nd place and Purito is a further 26 secs back.
> I hope it kicks off before the last climb but Quintana may reckon he can get enough time on the Semnoz @ 8.5% for 10.7km.


 
I can't see anything much happening on the Revard for the simple reason that they have that long flat section after the descent before they start the Semnoz. Plus, because it's such a short stage, Sky and/or Movistar can afford to go at it hard and try to control the race from the start. (When I say I can't see much happening, I mean in terms of attacks - I think the pace will be high enough for the peloton to be whittled down to a very select bunch by the top of the Revard though.)

Btw, I've done some more calculations, and if Quintana wins the stage, he takes the polka dot jersey regardless of what happens elsewhere. He will also win it if he comes second and Froome comes third or lower. If Quintana comes third, he needs Froome to come fifth or lower to take the jersey.

My left field prediction for the day is for Porte to win the stage. Quintana will do enough to take 2nd overall and the polka dot jersey. Contador to hold third place from Purito by a whisker.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Btw, I've done some more calculations, and if Quintana wins the stage, he takes the polka dot jersey regardless of what happens elsewhere.


I'd love to see this. He's impressed us all so much, hasn't he? yet he still hasn't won a stage.


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

Another thing Quintana should do is stop making those big mountains look so easy... #stickyourreasonablesuspicionupyourarse

http://www.velominati.com/anatomy-of-a-photo/anatomy-of-a-photo-after-the-finish-on-ventoux/


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## PpPete (20 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> I'd love to see this. He's impressed us all so much, hasn't he? yet he still hasn't won a stage.


+1

On the other hand....


smutchin said:


> My left field prediction for the day is for Porte to win the stage. .


Love to see that even more.
If ever a guy deserved a reward...


----------



## StuAff (20 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> The absolute best top story from this years TdF, belongs to The Jensie.
> Basically Voigt in no man’s land waiting to be caught, tries to give a bidon to a kid, the kid gets elbowed out of the way by some dude, Voigt sees it, turns around, goes back down the hill a bit and shames the perp to give bidon back to the kid – crowd goes wild! Chapeau Jens !!!
> http://video.lequipe.fr/video/2cf051f2b00s.html


Jens is the man. When he came over for that charity ride in the New Forest in April, he did it for the cost of his plane from Berlin.


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

I reckon a win for Andy Schleck today...


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I reckon a win for Andy Schleck today...



That doesn't sound as ridiculous as it would have done three weeks ago.


----------



## laurence (20 Jul 2013)

i think the main battle will be for the polka dot jersey. Rolland wants it for keep and Nieve and Quincy are close. if the latter goes for it, it may cause some action in the pack as Paxo react to stop him gaining in the GC.

i'm going for a Basque win, just because.

Gora Euskadi!

oh, Jens is the tops... we need a separate thread for Jensies... one more from me. many years ago, for the PruTour (remember that) i went to the start in Chessington for the BBC and was hanging around waiting to be allocated a car to travel in. there was a Gan rider there in a purple jersey. i checked the programme for his number and it was Jens, leading the points competition. he was just hanging around and chatting to people. i asked him if he intended to keep the jersey for the next two days. he looked down at it and then said "yes, the colour suits me". that was my introduction to Jensie's world and i've loved him since.


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

I stood next to Jens once in Morzine prior to the start of a stage. I could tell he so wanted me to speak to him so that he could convert me to being a 'Jensie' with a witty one-liner or a story which portrayed him in a favourable light; I ignored him, and went and spoke to some bloke who was riding for Gerolsteiner.


----------



## laurence (20 Jul 2013)

"shut up noodles"


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Bloody 'ell, Jens is on a break already


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Bloody 'ell, Jens is on a break already


 
I bet he's telling his breakaway companions about that day in Morzine when the lanky scotch git blanked him...


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

Rolland in the break as well, maybe I was wrong and he will get the polka jersey.


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## VamP (20 Jul 2013)

Hah, today is a rest day, the wife is away and no other activity lined up for today other than re-gluing my tubs and watch the Tour. Bliss!


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

The 2 groups out front have joined together - quite a strong group of 9.


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

God to see that Anton is not letting Roland pick up top points. It would be a travesty if Rolland won the polka dot jersey.


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Did you see that mountain top thingie? We could exile Noodley there.


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> God to see that Anton is not letting Roland pick up top points. It would be a travesty if Rolland won the polka dot jersey.


I think it might get snatched away on the Semnoz


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> God to see that Anton is not letting Roland pick up top points. It would be a travesty if Rolland won the polka dot jersey.


 

Really? Even God is against the French?


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> Really? Even God is against the French?


Mon Dieu!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

In other news, poor old Cadel finished in the grupetto behind Cav yesterday. Well and truly exhausted.


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

The peltalong look to have decided it's time to catch the breakaway


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2013)

so a Movistar vs Saxo battle for the podium? With Purito getting all opportunist? Quintana FTW today?


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> God to see that Anton is not letting Roland pick up top points. It would be a travesty if Rolland won the polka dot jersey.



See earlier posts. Because of the way the points are dished out, he'll have to finish the stage ahead of Froome and Quintana to win the jersey outright. Likewise Riblon & Nieve.

In other words, it's between Froome and Quintana.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Handbags there from Rolland and Anton! Cav stylee!


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

In an unexpected move I have just received an e-mail from Phil Liggett asking me to write his "farewell to commentary speech" for after tomorrow's stage finish. Who'd have thought...


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> God to see that Anton is not letting Roland pick up top points. It would be a travesty if Rolland won the polka dot jersey.


 

Howcome?


----------



## theclaud (20 Jul 2013)

"Nairo Quintana added a new photo" at 14:26, apparently. Gotta admire some people's dedication to social media.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

Probably got a new Garmin.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

Kreuziger and Nico Roche have just been clocked by one of the motorbikes at 100kph


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

Christ.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

My strategy of switching between Eurosport and ITV to avoid ads is not working that well, the seem to be syncing ad breaks.


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## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Howcome?


It's a long time since the best climber on the Tour got the climber's jersey, but even these days it usually involves a stage win, or at least some convincing climbing, but Rolland just got dropped by Jens Voigt.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Christ.


quite


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

Yep, as raindog said it has been a while since the best climber won the polka dot jersey but Rolland isn't even in the top 10 of best climbers on the tour - it's fair enough that he has played to the system, but I'd rather see someone that has at least sparked up the crowds a bit rather than accumulate points on lesser climbs then drop away when the real climbing started.


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Kreuziger and Nico Roche have just been clocked by one of the motorbikes at 100kph


 
I've done nearly that fast. Although in fairness I have weight on my side (and my back and my moobs...)


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Yep, as raindog said it has been a while since the best climber won the polka dot jersey but Rolland isn't even in the top 10 of best climbers on the tour - it's fair enough that he has played to the system, but I'd rather see someone that has at least sparked up the crowds a bit rather than accumulate points on lesser climbs then drop away when the real climbing started.


 

I see, makes sense. Thanks to you both.
Do they give away those points because they want to encourage more excitement from early breakaways?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2013)

So, Froome won't be in the yellow jersey tomorrow then! 








He'll be in the ''gold tunic'', apparently, with gold sequins! Come back, polka dot onesies, all is forgiven....


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## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> He'll be in the ''gold tunic'', apparently, with gold sequins!


Christ on a bike, tell me this is a joke


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Christ on a bike, tell me this is a joke


Unfortunately it's not the 1st of April - http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Un-maillot-en-or-dimanche/387169


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## tug benson (20 Jul 2013)

Should be a cracking final climb


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Great move there. I really hope they crack Contador here. 

Froome, Quintana & Rodriguez will be brilliant.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

that must be the only time this tour that froome has actually got out the saddle


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

stick it up your arse bertie


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Unfortunately it's not the 1st of April - http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Un-maillot-en-or-dimanche/387169


that sounds more like a Giro type stunt ! Sequins n flashy lights....


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## thom (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> stick it up your arse bertie


A stake too far ?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

What was Rodriguez shouting about?


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Poll!
Who'll win the stage?
I'll go J Rod


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> What was Rodriguez shouting about?


dunno, froome is sitting pretty


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## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Poll!
> Who'll win the stage?
> I'll go J Rod


froome, I am afraid, no gifts on the tour. I think he is quite ruthless despite the politeness.


----------



## tug benson (20 Jul 2013)

Froomedog laying down the law


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## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

I think froomes swipe at the spectator proves my point


----------



## User169 (20 Jul 2013)

Cheeky punch from Froome!


----------



## Sittingduck (20 Jul 2013)

Cage fighter!


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## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Poll!
> Who'll win the stage?
> I'll go J Rod


 

I'll go Quintana just pipping Froome to the King of the Mountains with the win.

Rodriguez has knackereed himself breaking Contador to get himself onto the podium.


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## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

Froomedawg gave him the paw then.

He looks odds on for the win, he's got that accelaration


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

telt ye


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Froome going for it, caught and now Quintana making a great break here, pulling away


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

Well, well, good for Quintana.


----------



## RWright (20 Jul 2013)

strong


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## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Brilliant. Great win for Quintana, first stage win and he is King of the Mountains.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

nice finish, great win for quintana, and a fine late flourish from purito


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

chapeau to valverde for effort to push himself up the the GC table a bit


----------



## RWright (20 Jul 2013)

was nice to see Froome racing with them


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

Now _that's_ a result that puts the smile on me face


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Poor old dirty Bertie!!


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

Another great stage, delighted to see Quintana win and fantastic to see the top 3 battling it out with some vigour and effort!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2013)

What a grand finish to a fine day's racing!


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## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

that was good, best get out for a ride myself now.


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## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Sets up a right ding dong next year if Quintana is a team leader, Nibali maybe too.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Sets up a right ding dong next year if Quintana is a team leader, Nibali maybe too.


 
Not to mention Betancur and Uran. There could be several Colombian contenders.

Great and deserved win by Quintana and amazing to finish 2nd in the Tour at his age.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Froome needn't have done those little sprints. Must have hurt.


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

Where do people think Valverde would have finished, barring his wheel problem?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

4th 'ish, maybe 3rd


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

What a terrific race anyway. Thrills and spills virtually every day.
Maybe Cav will top it off tomorrow but I'm not as confident as usual.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> 4th 'ish, maybe 3rd


Yes, maybe 4th but he wouldn't have been allowed to get away yesterday for instance. I can't recall if he was allowed a gap before that?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Yes, maybe 4th but he wouldn't have been allowed to get away yesterday for instance. I can't recall if he was allowed a gap before that?


Don't think so but he did do a lot of team work and yesterday was only 10 seconds


----------



## jifdave (20 Jul 2013)

Lovely wheelie and skid across the line from sagan


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

FROOOOOOOOOOOOME!

QUINTANAAAAAAAAAAA!

PURITOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Brilliant. That was wonderful. Broad grin across my face for the whole of the final climb. I don't think I could have picked a better final podium - well, maybe it would have been nice to see Mollema in 3rd but I'm happy for Rodriguez to be there. 

Porte was just superb again. What a star. He was never really going to be in contention for the stage win but he deserves an honorary title of some kind. Great tactics to mark Contador for the second half of the climb. 

Great ride by Talansky too. And Kwiatkowski. And Romain Bardet! Fantastic to see these great young prospects making their mark on the big stage. [edit: and not forgetting Sagan!]


----------



## Va Va Froome (20 Jul 2013)

Richie Porte! 

I have massive respect for the wingmen, they dig deep for little personal reward or glory.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Where do people think Valverde would have finished, barring his wheel problem?



Outside the podium places. Like Contador, he just didn't have the legs on the really big climbs. 

What's more interesting is whether or not Quintana could have won overall if he'd been team leader from the start. He only became main man after that Valverde mechanical and had already lost time to Froome by then because he'd been riding for Valverde.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Unfortunately it's not the 1st of April - http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Un-maillot-en-or-dimanche/387169


It's an official jersey - that's different. I thought you meant it was something that Sky themselves had concocted. I was imagining, with horror, a sort of Liberace off the shoulder thing.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Maybe Cav will top it off tomorrow but I'm not as confident as usual.



Just at this moment, I'm feeling very confident for Cav. I have a feeling the last few days will have taken more out of Kittel than they've taken out of Cav.


----------



## araapatlio (20 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> What's more interesting is whether or not Quintana could have won overall if he'd been team leader from the start. He only became main man after that Valverde mechanical and had already lost time to Froome by then because he'd been riding for Valverde.


 

Good question - I think everyone will be surprised if he doesn't win a Tour in the next few years.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

Some better timed attacks would have helped as well.


----------



## TVC (20 Jul 2013)

Typical, you wait 99 years for a British Tour de France winner and then two come along at once.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> It's a long time since the best climber on the Tour got the climber's jersey, but even these days it usually involves a stage win, or at least some convincing climbing



Worth noting that they changed the scoring last year to give extra weight to HC climbs and summit finishes, precisely with the aim of preventing the Virenques and Voecklers of the peloton taking it by hoovering up the intermediate climbs. 

I think they can look at this year's winner and say: "Mission accomplie!"


----------



## Licramite (20 Jul 2013)

what is it with the stupid spectators, do they want to cause a crash, why do they behave like utter pratts. - it must piss the riders off something rotten.
watching todays ride, guy lets his dog run into the cyclists path ! another numpty running by the bikes get so close the rider as to push him away.
even spectators behind barriers force the riders to move away from waving flags and arms.

utter crap


----------



## jdtate101 (20 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Porte was just superb again. What a star. He was never really going to be in contention for the stage win but he deserves an honorary title of some kind. Great tactics to mark Contador for the second half of the climb.


 

And then leave him behind when it was clear he was not a threat, to finish well ahead of Roman and Alberto...pure class. I'm sure Chris will pay him back with domestique duties soon. Shame Chris couldn't help him grab a stage, but Porte being a true team player probably wouldn't have gone along with that if there was any risk to the Yellow Jersey.


----------



## BrumJim (20 Jul 2013)

12 months of hurt will be over tomorrow!


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

Still tomorrow but already that slight sense of anti-climax is setting in, nothing left in the summer sporting calendar to look forward to.


----------



## BrumJim (20 Jul 2013)

Ashes, Athletics World Championships, London Anniversary Games, still some more excitement left.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

Tour of Poland
Ashes


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

forgot about the Worlds.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

Athletics maybe, cricket doesn't do it, Tour of Poland, true but the Vuelta and the Worlds seem a long way away.


----------



## ColinJ (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Athletics maybe, cricket doesn't do it, Tour of Poland, true but the Vuelta and the Worlds seem a long way away.


Tour de Wallonie stages 3-5 on Eurosport, Monday-Wednesday.

San Sebastian on Saturday, (plus start of Tour of Poland), plus Beverley circuit race..


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

I'd heard a rumour that the World Athletics events will be competed for by blokes in plimsoles after a sudden attack of mysterious "injuries" - nothing to do with dope tests of course.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Tour de Wallonie stages 3-5 on Eurosport, Monday-Wednesday.
> 
> San Sebastian on Saturday, (plus start of Tour of Poland), plus Beverley circuit race..


True. It all seems a come down after the Tour, for a few weeks at least and them I re-muster my enthusiasm.


----------



## jdtate101 (20 Jul 2013)

Vuelta a Espana......Not sure who is going to contest this one. I think Nibali as he's had time off, but I doubt Froome will go nor Cadel. I would expect Contador, Valverde and Purito to attend as It's their national tour. Wiggins I seriously doubt attending...but I could be wrong. Maybe he fancies salvaging something from 2013.

If it's anything like last yr then it will be a cracking race.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> True. It all seems a come down after the Tour, for a few weeks at least and them I re-muster my enthusiasm.


We could get all maudlin...

Jens today, all his rivals seemed so far away,
Oh, I believed in Jens today...


----------



## ColinJ (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> True. It all seems a come down after the Tour, for a few weeks at least and them I re-muster my enthusiasm.


I used to feel like that in the early 90s before I started to get disillusioned by doping in cycling. I still enjoy watching the Tour, but I don't get really excited about it any more. 

Stage 2 is actually passing through here next year, within 400 metres of my house and even that is not getting me stirred up. I will go out and take some photos of the peloton passing through, then come home to watch the stage finish on Eurosport. When the Kellogg's Tour came through in the 90s, I went out and cycled up one of the steep climbs before the race got there, to cheers from the gathered spectators!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I used to feel like that in the early 90s before I started to get disillusioned by doping in cycling. I still enjoy watching the Tour, but I don't get really excited about it any more.
> 
> Stage 2 is actually passing through here next year, within 400 metres of my house and even that is not getting me stirred up. I will go out and take some photos of the peloton passing through, then come home to watch the stage finish on Eurosport. When the Kellogg's Tour came through in the 90s, I went out and cycled up one of the steep climbs before the race got there, to cheers from the gathered spectators!


 
Well, feck off out of the TdF thread if you have no interest!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

Just to keep you guys updated, Svein Tuft has managed to keep hold of the lanterne rouge!


----------



## ColinJ (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Well, feck off out of the TdF thread if you have no interest!


Are you getting more crotchety with age? I'm sure that I have detected a change in your posting style over the past couple of months!  

Anyway, I didn't say that I have no interest in the Tour - I have just fallen out of love with it. That struck me this year when I forgot to watch the live coverage on the opening stage in Corsica. I would never have made that mistake in the past.


----------



## Va Va Froome (20 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Still tomorrow but already that slight sense of anti-climax is setting in, nothing left in the summer sporting calendar to look forward to.


 
Agreed. The Confed Cup football, Wimbledon and Tour have all been good to watch this summer.

On the plus side, there will be plenty of free afternoons to get out on our own bikes instead of watching other people on TV!!!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Are you getting more crotchety with age? I'm sure that I have detected a change in your posting style over the past couple of months!
> 
> Anyway, I didn't say that I have no interest in the Tour - I have just fallen out of love with it. That struck me this year when I forgot to watch the live coverage on the opening stage in Corsica. I would never have made that mistake in the past.


 
Maybe, I spend too much time talking to Noodley!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Vuelta a Espana......Not sure who is going to contest this one. I think Nibali as he's had time off, but I doubt Froome will go nor Cadel. I would expect Contador, Valverde and Purito to attend as It's their national tour. Wiggins I seriously doubt attending...but I could be wrong. Maybe he fancies salvaging something from 2013.
> 
> If it's anything like last yr then it will be a cracking race.


Contador has already said he will not ride la vuelta. Too lumpy for Wiggins I think. Maybe Porte fancys a crack at it ?


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Maybe, I spend too much time talking to Noodley!


 
Listen here you old nobber, I'm constantly having to jolly you along - it's like working for the Samaritans sometimes.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> We could get all maudlin...
> 
> Jens today, all his rivals seemed so far away,
> Oh, I believed in Jens today...


Ssssshhhh, don't tell Laurence but I'm not a big Jensie fan, I much prefer his myth.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2013)

Be good to see 3 continents represented on the podium in Paris if things stay as they are.


----------



## Chris Norton (20 Jul 2013)

I'm so glad Quintana got the stage today. He really deserved one after the way he has ridden this tour. I think he will win a GT at some stage without doubt.
Been a superb tour with some memorable moments. 
Come on Cav tomorrow!!!! Make it another.


----------



## iLB (20 Jul 2013)

Didn't get to watch the Alpe stage live, but did this make it in? 


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls3NxXSb1K0


----------



## 400bhp (20 Jul 2013)

Porte's coment after the end of today's stage: "the right people are on the podium". Not sure what to make of that.


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> Porte's coment after the end of today's stage: "the right people are on the podium". Not sure what to make of that.


 
It probably means that he thinks the right people are on the podium.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> It probably means that he thinks the right people are on the podium.


Plus he got a chance to size up Contador and then drop him.


----------



## Slaav (20 Jul 2013)

I like Porte! A lot. A refreshing guy who seems (mostly) 'normal' and straight talking....


----------



## TVC (21 Jul 2013)

So, when will Quintana win? Obvious talent, but it's up to Movistar to put him in the right races to mature his decision making, and to put the right team around him. Maybe not next year, but if he hasn't won by 2017 then his window will begin to close.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2013)

It will depend on the routes as well.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2013)

Quintana will win the Giro and/or the Vuelta before he wins the Tour. Both are generally more suited to him. With the Tour, he'll have to wait for another edition like this with limited flat TT miles.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (21 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Quintana will win the Giro and/or the Vuelta before he wins the Tour. Both are generally more suited to him. With the Tour, he'll have to wait for another edition like this with limited flat TT miles.


 

Agreed, and what a likeable talent he is. On the Ventoux he showed no emotion - the epitome of cool. I did notice a little smile on his face inside the last 200 metres today though! 

My only regret is I wished I'd put a tenner on him for the KOM.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Don't forget it's a late stage today. It starts at 5.45 and finishes at night about 9.30


----------



## jifdave (21 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Don't forget it's a late stage today. It starts at 5.45 and finishes at night about 9.30



Half 8 uk....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> that was good, best get out for a ride myself now.


I missed it all. 

Was out for a ride. Just a mere 163 miles and 9222ft of climbing. 

How these guys do this sh*t everyday is beyond me. My legs and backside feel quite raped.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Just watched the highlights this morning. Epic finish from the podium boys. Quintana is the deserving winner of the Polka dot jersey. Look forward to seeing more from him.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I missed it all.
> 
> Was out for a ride. Just a mere 163 miles and 9222ft of climbing.
> 
> How these guys do this sh*t everyday is beyond me. My legs and backside feel quite raped.


interesting choice of words there.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

Heck, I've just remembered Leslie Garrett's extraordinary rendition of the anthem! Please tell me that there's a travel ban been issued on her....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> interesting choice of words there.


New saddle.


----------



## G3CWI (21 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Heck, I've just remembered Leslie Garrett's extraordinary rendition of the anthem! Please tell me that there's a travel ban been issued on her....


 

Oh dear. Your comments made me search out the video. OMG. I am feeling quite poorly. Wiggo's face was a picture.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

G3CWI said:


> Oh dear. Your comments made me search out the video. OMG. I am feeling quite poorly. Wiggo's face was a picture.


I was going to put a link up for that but didn't out of pure charity.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

User said:


> View attachment 26537


Lol, that's awesome. 
​


----------



## Monsieur Remings (21 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I missed it all.
> 
> Was out for a ride. Just a mere 163 miles and 9222ft of climbing.
> 
> How these guys do this sh*t everyday is beyond me. My legs and backside feel quite raped.


 

Pah, I'd do that before breakfast after a night on the lash and still have change left for a bike wash and service.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Pah, I'd do that before breakfast after a night on the lash and still have change left for a bike wash and service.


I bet Pedro is saying a little thanks that Andy Schleck never won a stage after all !


----------



## Monsieur Remings (21 Jul 2013)

I might try and go for a bike ride tonight seeing as there's nothing else on. I'll do the right thing and leave the other half to do the clearing up for what my brother and wife, and their children do not yet know - that they are to take part in a pre-tour barbecue of epic proportions where the talk will be of Quintana Rojas, the KOM competition and that plucky little chap from Columbia...and the young riders jersey of course. Lucky for them that they know nothing about cycling and aren't interested in the slightest...bless 'em, it should be interesting.

Second thoughts, the wife will probably have Kittel's, sorry I mean kittens if I leave her to do all that and I wouldn't want her to have a Greipel all afternoon with me, especially when she spent so much money this morning at Argos. I must remember to check my Lotto ticket too...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2013)

I know the evening finish is fun and all, but it makes it impossible for me to see it - I really can't stay up all night.

As to the result: despite the fact that he clearly hasn't been the fastest man this year, I am wondering whether Cav might have a slight advantage with Kittel having lost Veelers and Greipel losing Sieberg.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I bet Pedro is saying a little thanks that Andy Schleck never won a stage after all !


You have a good memory! Not hat eating for me.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> As to the result: despite the fact that he clearly hasn't been the fastest man this year, I am wondering whether Cav might have a slight advantage with Kittel having lost Veelers and Greipel losing Sieberg.


 I was hoping the same thing.


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

I'm rather disconcerted by the amount of UK sporting success in the last couple of months. The pleasure of winning is somewhat diminished. At least the success in Tennis, Rugby and ongoing in Cricket alongside Cycling aren't coming in the bombastic arena of Football, where you really do feel the players are too flash to care, so why should you ?

However, aside from this sweet fayre we've been fortunate in GB to have been served, today brings the prospect of something that I think predates the current sporting heatwave. If Cav wins on the Champs Elysee in the 100'th TdF, not only would it be for GB the icing on the cake of this edition, it would be for the 5'th time in a row. His TdF successes over the last years have been as a pioneer, pre-Sky, pre-marginal gains and for the love of racing and riding a bike. So I hope Cav's salad days continue and he is good enough to win for he is fun but whether he does or doesn't, Froome's accumulation of this Tour has been brilliant, awesome and spectacular.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I know the evening finish is fun and all, but it makes it impossible for me to see it - I really can't stay up all night.


That's tough FM. I'll give you a thought when I'm in front of the telly with a glass of chilled white.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> As to the result: despite the fact that he clearly hasn't been the fastest man this year, I am wondering whether Cav might have a slight advantage with Kittel having lost Veelers and Greipel losing Sieberg.



Good point. 

Experience surely counts for a lot too - Cav knows this finish better than anyone. 

And as mentioned earlier, he's bound to have found the Alps slightly easier going than Kittel, who will be completing a GT for the first time. I can't help wondering if Kittel can possibly have another stage win left in him.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> If Cav wins on the Champs Elysee in the 100'th TdF, not only would it be for GB the icing on the cake of this edition, it would be for the 5'th time in a row.



Bearing in mind that doing it three times in a row was unheard of until Cav came along, it would be a truly staggering achievement. 

I mean, yet another truly staggering achievement in a career that has already made a mockery of the record books. 

And it would take him clear of Andre Leducq into third place in the list of all time TdF stage winners, only two behind Hinault. 

Awesome.


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Bearing in mind that doing it three times in a row was unheard of until Cav came along, it would be a truly staggering achievement.


Has anybody else even done it twice in a row ?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

You know, we've picked on Cofidis in this thread (and effing Taaramae is still yet to register a single point in the fantasy league) but at least they have a rider in the top ten on GC. 

BMC, on the other hand, have had an absolute nightmare of a Tour, their highest-placed rider being Morabito in 35th. Apart from a few valiant-but-futile efforts from Tejay, they've given Andy Rihs a very poor return for his not inconsiderable investment. 

I think yesterday's stage was possibly the first time I'd even noticed Gilbert was in the race. 

Cuddles' days as team leader are surely numbered now.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Latest live information from FranceTelevision is that Cav did a couple of laps of the Champs-Elysees this morning in front of the spectators and probably Changed His Cleats


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Has anybody else even done it twice in a row ?



I thought so but apparently not:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champs-Élysées_stage_in_the_Tour_de_France

Hinault, Abdoujaparov and McEwen have all won it twice, but not on successive occasions. 

Of course, Abdoujaparov (who won it in 1993 and 1995) might also have got three in a row if he hadn't stopped to give a gendarme his autograph in 1994.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You know, we've picked on Cofidis in this thread (and effing Taaramae is still yet to register a single point in the fantasy league) but at least they have a rider in the top ten on GC.
> 
> BMC, on the other hand, have had an absolute nightmare of a Tour, their highest-placed rider being Morabito in 35th. Apart from a few valiant-but-futile efforts from Tejay, they've given Andy Rihs a very poor return for his not inconsiderable investment.
> 
> ...


We'll have a debrief tomorrow maybe when it's all over, Smutch, but apart from a 2nd place by Fuglsang on one stage Astana have been pretty anonymous.
I'm inclined to agree on Cuddles but he did finish 3rd (and a gear slip away from 2nd) on the Giro in May. The two events may of course be cause and effect!


----------



## y2blade (21 Jul 2013)

Watching here.


----------



## tug benson (21 Jul 2013)

Boardman wearing trainers with a suit????


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> stopped to give a gendarme his autograph in 1994.



Oops, no - just checked and it turns out that was 1991. 

It wasn't even a bunch sprint in 1994 - Eddy Seigneur won it, nicking it on the line from Frankie Andreu, both well clear of the chasing pack. 

Can't see that happening today!


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I'm inclined to agree on Cuddles but he did finish 3rd (and a gear slip away from 2nd) on the Giro in May. The two events may of course be cause and effect!



Fair point. Not sure what Tejay's excuse is though. Maybe feeling the weight of expectation... Don't want to be too harsh on him though because I'm sure he'll come good in the long run.


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I thought so but apparently not:
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champs-Élysées_stage_in_the_Tour_de_France
> 
> Hinault, Abdoujaparov and McEwen have all won it twice, but not on successive occasions.
> ...


Aye, it is quite a record really - didn't know the Abdoujaparov story ;-)


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

Christ, half an hour of adverts after 2 minutes of programme. Time to hit record.


----------



## Andrew Br (21 Jul 2013)

We're having steak frites then friends are coming round and we're popping the Champagne although I'm currently feeling distinctly second hand after my mum's 70th b/day celebrations yesterday.
A large G&T has helped the recovery 


.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Worth noting as well that Cav's lead out man today was the last person to win on the Champs-Élysées before him.


----------



## Hip Priest (21 Jul 2013)

Peter Sagan has dyed his beard green.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> Peter Sagan has dyed his beard green.



Wacky daffodil.


----------



## Hip Priest (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wacky ****.


 

He is the Archbishop of Banterbury.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Sagan is a character!


----------



## iLB (21 Jul 2013)

Oh my


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Contador has been dropped


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Contador trying the old changing the bike tactic again. I somehow don't think it will help him win this stage.


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2013)

It just looks as if he has a really heavy cold...

As an aside, has anyone ever tried to find out just how difficult it is to do a wheelie on a road bike whilst clipped in and going up a hill?


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> It just looks as if he has a really heavy cold...
> 
> As an aside, has anyone ever tried to find out just how difficult it is to do a wheelie on a road bike whilst clipped in and going up a hill?


Let us know, the R3 is the best bike I hear.


----------



## Chromatic (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Sagan is a character!


 
I can't warm to him at all, am I the only one who thinks he's a bit, well a lot actually, of a nobber.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> am I the only one who thinks he's a bit, well a lot actually, of a nobber.


maybe


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> I can't warm to him at all, am I the only one who thinks he's a bit, well a lot actually, of a nobber.


http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/peter-sagan.126265/


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> I can't warm to him at all, am I the only one who thinks he's a bit, well a lot actually, of a nobber.


 

I know what you mean - I don't think I could stand to spend much time with him - but from a distance, he's a laugh, brings a bit of colour to the Tour.


----------



## Chromatic (21 Jul 2013)

Only maybe?


----------



## Hip Priest (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> I can't warm to him at all, am I the only one who thinks he's a bit, well a lot actually, of a nobber.


 
No. Stephen Fry was once described as a thick person's idea of what a clever person is. Well I think Peter Sagan is a boring person's idea of what a character is. Bloody brilliant cyclist though.


----------



## Chromatic (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/peter-sagan.126265/


 
There's 12 pages of that, I can't plough through it right now, what's the general consensus there?

Hip Priest is right.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Sagan speaks very highly of you lot


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> There's 12 pages of that, I can't plough through it right now, what's the general consensus there?
> 
> Hip Priest is right.


I'm afraid you'll have to do your own legwork!


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> Only maybe?


well, there's probably one or two others, but I'm buggered if I can remember who


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Sagan is a very worthy winner of the green jersey. For the second year in a row. 

That's two out of two attempts. 

I think we can afford to cut the kid a bit of slack.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Personally, I think Dave Brailsford has handled himself and the bollix surrounding Froomedawg, very well and with dignity


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Personally, I think Dave Brailsford has handled himself and the bollix surrounding Froomedawg, very well and with dignity


Depends where you read. Talking of which, Cycling News forum is down for a critical update. Odd bit of timing that, if only I was Moon Landing Conspiracist.

...and I agree.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Depends where you read. Talking of which, Cycling News forum is down for a critical update. Odd bit of timing that, if only I was Moon Landing Conspiracist.
> 
> ...and I agree.


read?
I was thinking of the post and pre-stage 'on air' interviews


----------



## Hip Priest (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Sagan speaks very highly of you lot


 

I heard he thinks we're all nobbers on here.

He prefers Bike Radar.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> read?
> I was thinking of the post and pre-stage 'on air' interviews


Ah, Haven't seen him.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Ah, Haven't seen him.


Get the box set


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

Good adverts this break.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Good adverts this break.


The wacky euro ads are weird on Eurosport but after 3 weeks become very wearing. I feel pretty chuffed to have survived them all the way to Paris.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Don't you feckin love it when they roll into Paris?


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

MVP - Richie Porte, no question.


----------



## 400bhp (21 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I missed it all.
> 
> *Was out for a ride*. Just a mere 163 miles and 9222ft of climbing.
> 
> How these guys do this sh*t everyday is beyond me.* My legs and backside feel quite raped*.


 
Hmmm

(sets a mental note to turn down any "ride" requests with Pedro)


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Les Rouges Fleches, or whatever , look good!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Who do think will be in the first break?
Voigt? Bakelants?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Miller?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

I think I have something in my eye.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Who do think will be in the first break?
> Voigt? Bakelants?


 

Froome.


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

BMC, Cofidis, Euskaltel-Euskadi, FDJ, Lampre, Sojasun & Vaconsoleil should as teams just be given half a lap start, just to give them a chance of getting something out of the tour...

Edit : maybe not Lampre, unless they ditch Cun-*-ego


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> BMC, Cofidis, Euskaltel-Euskadi, FDJ, Lampre, Sojasun & Vaconsoleil should as teams just be given half a lap start, just to give them a chance of getting something out of the tour...


Like Flintoff's suggestion that we should let the Aussies have 3 innings


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

56km for Froomedawg to not fall off


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2559036, member: 30090"]love it[/quote]
What a route!


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

The Lanterne Rouge is performing his duties splendidly


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> The Lanterne Rouge is performing his duties splendidly


I don't think Svein can lose a minute today so he's nailed on


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

Just switched on, is this a FSTASFCK branded bike for Cav? He said it would feature green trim.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Miller?


or even his mate, Millar.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Puncture for Cav!


----------



## Chromatic (21 Jul 2013)

Windy?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> or even his mate, Millar.


David Moulin?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> It just looks as if he has a really heavy cold...
> 
> As an aside, has anyone ever tried to find out just how difficult it is to do a wheelie on a road bike whilst clipped in and going up a hill?


did your wheely attempts not go well then ?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Millar always gets in at least one break every year


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

those huge kerbs when they ride in the gutter scare the shoots out of me


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> those huge kerbs when they ride in the gutter scare the s***s out of me



Yeah, I always manage to catch a pedal when I try to pull shoot like that.


----------



## fozy tornip (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> MVP - Richie Porte, no question.


Regrettable that Porte's classy significant other didn't take it upon him/herself to chip in with some bitching tweets along the lines of "get yourself a PortePussy", thus livening up what has otherwise been a dull Tour.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Millar always gets in at least one break every year


Him and Jensie had a good bash earlier on in the race, remember the camera alongside and he gave them the 'I'm all done in' signal on the hill.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

This is pretty neat scenery we got here, with the sun going down and all the famous landmarks


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

Will Froome pull over to adorn the sequined jersey? Or is that all a rouse?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> those huge kerbs when they ride in the gutter scare the s***s out of me



Can't imagine you being scared of the gutter, you're more than used to it.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Him and Jensie had a good bash earlier on in the race, remember the camera alongside and he gave them the 'I'm all done in' signal on the hill.


Yep. I meant on the Champs but he has a good dig.
He has announced his fairly imminent retirement too.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I don't think Svein can lose a minute today so he's nailed on


He's just abandoned


----------



## just jim (21 Jul 2013)

The ITV 4 live feed seems very jumpy. Anyone else getting that?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Poor Westra!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> He's just abandoned


Nooooooooooooooo!
Really?


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Nooooooooooooooo!
> Really?


oh no, sorry, Westra it was, phew...

Tuft, Westra, I was close, easy mistake to make


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Poor Westra!


What happened ?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> oh no, sorry, Westra it was, phew...


Phew, I'm in the Tufty Club


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> What happened ?


Bored, I think


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Millar is giving a great but futile crack!


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Allez Dave!


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

Millar Time !

I wonder if this might be his last hurrah at the TdF.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

26km for froomedawg


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Millar is giving a great but futile crack!


The Frenchies must be fed up to the back teeth with those perfidious Brits!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Millar Time !
> 
> I wonder if this might be his last hurrah at the TdF.


He has more or less said so. Nice finale like Jens Voigt's yesterday


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> What happened ?



Not sure but he must have been in a very bad way to have abandoned with just 40km to go.


----------



## raindog (21 Jul 2013)

Millar is one of these blokes who always looks good on a bike


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Millar is one of these blokes who always looks good on a bike



I know exactly what you mean


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Millar is one of these blokes who always looks good on a bike


Aye, going out in style too - it brings a tear to one's eye his story, that of potential & ability wasted to drugs, of facing demons and fronting up to the past - destined to fail this evening, this is about as honourable an exit as you could want and with the world looking on.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Yep. I meant on the Champs but he has a good dig.
> He has announced his fairly imminent retirement too.


I recall him saying he wants to race long enough for his son Arthur to remember it. I hope he hangs off long enough to ride for Scotland in Glasgow next year.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I recall him saying he wants to race long enough for his son Arthur to remember it


He has apparently re-thought it after the birth of kid #2


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

That Cavendish bloke is a midget - he's got no chance!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> He has apparently re-thought it after the birth of kid #2


He could retire from cycling and go offshore, more time at home that way.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Cav needs a Wiggo lead-out. Maybe Froomey will do the honours!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Vichot and FDJ are having a mare which sums up their race


----------



## thom (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> He has apparently re-thought it after the birth of kid #2


I think also that Garmin will do well to look to the future a bit more - I could see Millar doing the classics as a team man again but perhaps their younger riders will get backed in next year's GCs completely.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Tony Martin would be good in the Wiggo leadout role if his body is up to it.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

I left the room to put chicken on, what happened to Millar? Caught and back in the peloton?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

The idiots Kirby and Kelly seem to think that these 3 may stay away FFS


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Cav needs a Wiggo lead-out. Maybe Froomey will do the honours!



How many of those poncey wines have you glugged?


----------



## Sittingduck (21 Jul 2013)

He thinks theyre dooooomed, s' ok


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Valverde must be venting some frustration in this futile break


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

they could take back 17 seconds in the last 500m!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> He thinks theyre dooooomed, s' ok


p.s. Nice to see you Ducky!


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

The peloton racing around Paris must be one of the most beautiful sights in sport.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> The idiots Kirby and Kelly seem to think that these 3 may stay away FFS


I am banished to the non eurosport tv tonight, so forced to watch itv4, different anyway.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

The definition of irony - the guy ringing the bell to indicate the last lap of the Tour de France, was out of breath.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Ding ding ding!

Ouch, Carlton Kirby just said, Froome the Bell Tolls!!!
I wish I had!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> The definition of irony - the guy ringing the bell to indicate the last lap of the Tour de France, was out of breath.


Though maybe waving a French white flag at the start of each stage might seem ironic to some....


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

my HR is going up


----------



## y2blade (21 Jul 2013)

This really is a sight to behold


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Froome is safe BTW!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

F*cking brill ent it!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Kittel !


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Kittel in the middle definitely. Great finish.


----------



## Sittingduck (21 Jul 2013)

Daaamn!


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Oh damn


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

Fug


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

nice finish. Who is that wee feller on sky, Lopez ?? By heck he is small !


----------



## Chromatic (21 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> F*cking brill ent it!


 
Yes


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Chapeau Kittel. 

OPQS bungled that slightly. Argos got it perfect.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

Gutted for Cavendish his back wheel bounced when he needed traction.
The OPQS train needs a bit more work as well 

My bookies happy though... me less so.


----------



## Booyaa (21 Jul 2013)

Bit of an anti climax, cracking sprint by Kittel though. Chapeau.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Kittel was class in this race and his lead-out was much much better than OPQS


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

The 3 sprinters were out on their own for quite a ways, it was an out and out head to head for them, the lead out trains were not so much a factor by then.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Booyaa said:


> Bit of an anti climax, cracking sprint by Kittel though. Chapeau.


 

Not really, it was a great climax - just a disappointment that Cav didn't win it.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Steegmans was Cav's last man and was shot before the last bend


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

Disappointed for Cav.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2013)

Where did Richie Froome finish? I heard a lot about him on ITV's commentary but I can't seem to find him in the overall list?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Jeez, watching the final stage is almost unbearable - it takes less time for my HR to settle back down after doing a sprint myself...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Kittel was the fastest imo. I am sure Cav will say similar in an interview. 

Chapeau Kittel.


----------



## Booyaa (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Not really, it was a great climax - just a disappointment that Cav didn't win it.


 
The climax I was wanting was a Cav win, Froome in yellow. So bit of an anti-climax. The sprint was great, but the climax of it was not what I was looking for.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

ITV have just said Sagan pulled a monster wheelie. Need to see this


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Did Sky Sports bid for the TdF coverage?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Great interview with G and Kennaugh just now. Lovely boys.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Did Sky Sports bid for the TdF coverage?


if they did, i am SO glad they lost.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Great interview with G and Kennaugh just now. Lovely boys.


was that your mom typing that ?


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> if they did, i am SO glad they lost.


 
Same here - I wouldn't be watching cycling (and probably wouldn't be doing it either) if it wasn't available on Freeview.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> Did Sky Sports bid for the TdF coverage?


I don't know what kind of bid they put in but, as it stands, they get plenty of free Sky coverage from the channels that put in winning bids.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

There could always be the possibility that Sky would take Eurosport's coverage and it also stays on itv4.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Got to hand it to OPQS though, they wear casquettes and not BFO ball caps, like wot Froome has on now. He's alright Froome, but what has he done on cobbles eh ?


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Why would you bring up doping when interviewing the winner of the TdF you stupid fark?


----------



## Hip Priest (21 Jul 2013)

Oh well. It's been a tough tour for Cav, but he'll have Renshaw leading him out next year.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Got to hand it to OPQS though, they wear casquettes and not BFO ball caps, like wot Froome has on now. He's alright Froome, but what has he done on cobbles eh ?



Apart from pass the finish line in a yellow jersey, fug all!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Quintana has never been on the Champs Elysée before today.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Apart from pass the finish line in a yellow jersey, fug all!


correct, you are nothing if you have never won on a shitty spring cobbled classic in belgium


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Rather than giving points at the top of the mountains, which can skew the result, why couldn't they have a Mountain GC, which ranks you according to your aggregate time on certified climbs?

Or are the mountain points designed to get an early break away, which is less likely to happen if it is based only on time?


----------



## Sittingduck (21 Jul 2013)

Sparklin' stuff!


----------



## Monsieur Remings (21 Jul 2013)

Well done Chris Froome and Quintana Rojas...and you too Mr Sagan. No bias there.

Perhaps for Cav, the 13th stage holds the future key for him because he's got his work cut out man for man with Kittel and Greipel in the bunch sprint. If he can show the same tactical nous as he did during the crosswind havoc, he might just top that 34 stage wins. But, L'Equipe can't be too far wrong when they underline that come an equal bunch sprint contest, he is no longer undisputed.

I've said enough about Quintana but ain't he just great?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2013)

That Arc got quite hypnotic for me!


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2013)

No sign of Lesley Garrett this year.
Wiggins will be pis sed off...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> View attachment 26560
> 
> 
> Well done Chris Froome and Quintana Rojas...and you too Mr Sagan. No bias there.
> ...


what about Rodruigez ?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Great speech. If this doesn't win him popular support in France, nothing will!


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2013)

Well done Froomedawg. 
A nice speech as well, and a wee dig at the end...


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2013)

Froome's not letting up on the "I'm clean to back off" line is he!


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

I'm not keen on the measley jersey


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

When Sagan speaks he sounds like that bloke out of Taxi


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2013)

I was going to be getting my people to contact Proudhomme's people to sort out a return to an afternoon finish so that flyingmonkey could watch it, but I think the evening finish worked well. Let me sleep on it before I decide...


----------



## vickster (21 Jul 2013)

How skinny and lopsided are that chap's pins!?


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Jul 2013)

The whole light show thing was very London2012 but it was well done!

Froomy didn't know what was going on for most of it


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> I was going to be getting my people to contact Proudhomme's people to sort out a return to an afternoon finish so that flyingmonkey could watch it, but I think the evening finish worked well. Let me sleep on it before I decide...


 

I read that as Proudhon.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> what about Rodruigez ?


 

Yep, Purito too and a whole host of others - Porte was immense for Froome despite mucking his own GC contention up which was a shame. I was hoping (and predicted ) that Rodriguez would win a stage but I think even he would admit he was eclipsed by the lad Quintana.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Quintana has never been on the Champs Elysée before today.


Where on earth does he get his wife's birthday presents FFS?


----------



## Doseone (21 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The whole light show thing was very London2012 but it was well done!


 
I was a bit disappointed that the Arc De Triomphe didn't turn in to a Transformer.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

What did everyone make of froomes sparkly sequines? - did he look pretty.
Did he have his nails done to match.







http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...th-tour-with-a-sequined-yellow-jersey--37939/


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Did he have his nails done to match.



No, but he had a gold vajazzle.


----------



## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> What did everyone make of froomes sparkly sequines? - did he look pretty.
> Did he have his nails done to match.


 

First they legalise gay marriage and now this...?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> No, but he had a gold vajazzle.


 I had to goggle google that!!!


----------



## themosquitoking (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I had to goggle google that!!!


 
You seem shocked but i also sense intrigue.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> You seem shocked but i also sense intrigue.


NSFW!


----------



## themosquitoking (21 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> NSFW!


 
I know what it is and actually am a bit of a fan.


----------



## Va Va Froome (21 Jul 2013)

Chris and Bradley - assisted by their very able teammates - have made Wikipedia much more respectable reading from a UK point of view - and that has to be the most important thing!


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> I know what it is and actually am a bit of a fan.


 

A fan of those who wear them, or a fan of wearing them yourself (do I really want to know though)


----------



## jifdave (21 Jul 2013)

View: http://youtu.be/SxU_i-EL0OE
lol if this had gone wrong...


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

Never saw that coming


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> View: http://youtu.be/SxU_i-EL0OE
> lol if this had gone wrong...



That was Sagan. He quickly swapped bikes and ducked into the bushes.


----------



## theclaud (21 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> lol if this had gone wrong...


 
Wonder if it's the same guy as this? (Jump at 3:14)


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2013)

I just saw them cross the line and at that exact moment my grandson flipped channels to Pirates of the Caribbean. So that was the end of my Tour this year.


----------



## junglegusset (22 Jul 2013)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...ed-of-not-being-bradley-wiggins-2013072276396


----------



## Doseone (22 Jul 2013)

OK, they can have today off, but can they start again tomorrow?

I hate it when the Tour finishes


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Doseone said:


> OK, they can have today off, but can they start again tomorrow?
> 
> I hate it when the Tour finishes


Froome isn't having a day off though - he's doing a 100km race in Belgium !


----------



## Doseone (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Froome isn't having a day off though - he's doing a 100km race in Belgium !


 
Seriously? That's bonkers if he really is, although I guess Team Sky don't do much by accident so it must be part of the master plan.


----------



## themosquitoking (22 Jul 2013)

Doseone said:


> Seriously? That's bonkers if he really is, although I guess Team Sky don't do much by accident so it must be part of the master plan.


 
It gets worse, he cycled there last night after the podium.


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Doseone said:


> Seriously? That's bonkers if he really is, although I guess Team Sky don't do much by accident so it must be part of the master plan.


It is the tradition - there are a few kermesses held every year that allow the riders to show up, do light weight racing, an agreed rider wins and everyone gets some appearance money.
Cav has not been invited this year to some as a result of the high speed accident he was involved with.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jul 2013)

It's nice to see Romain Bardet, France's best GC contender, coming out in solidarity with Froome yesterday.


> Il y a un moment où je me suis senti mal à l’aise, c’est quand je me suis retrouvé sur la ligne de départ avec Christopher Froome qui se faisait siffler. Je ne savais plus où me mettre. Je fais confiance à la lutte antidopage et confiance a priori aux coureurs. Cette réaction m’attriste. Certains ont monté le coup contre Sky et Froome, c’est lamentable. Il y a un imbroglio a été monté de toute pièce contre la machine Sky, avec des calculs de puissance qui sont hasardeux. La rigueur méthodique de Sky déplaît et il y a un amalgame trop rapide qui est fait. C’est dommage.


 
''There was one moment when I felt very uncomfortable. That was when I found myself on the start line with Christopher Froome, when he was being booed. I didn't know where to put myself. I have confidence in the anti-doping fight and confidence in the riders. That reaction saddens me. Some people mounted a lamentable coup against Sky and Froome. They got together against the Sky machine using dubious power calculations. Sky's methodical rigour does not make friends, and they made a over hasty alliance against Sky. What a shame.''


----------



## albion (22 Jul 2013)

I quite recall last year when Wiggins said "Froome's time will come.....'" missing out a 'but over my dead body' means they will only really ride together with Wiggo as TDF team leader.

So where next for Wiggins ?


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> It is the tradition - there are a few kermesses held every year that allow the riders to show up, do light weight racing, an agreed rider wins and everyone gets some appearance money.
> Cav has not been invited this year to some as a result of the high speed accident he was involved with.


 
My local one is on Thursday evening. Kittel's been signed up, atlhough Laurens Ten Dam will be the crowd favourite I guess.


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

albion said:


> I quite recall last year when Wiggins said "Froome's time will come.....'" missing out a 'but over my dead body' means they will only really ride together with Wiggo as TDF team leader.
> 
> So where next for Wiggins ?


I reckon he should go for some of the classic races (not necessarily cobbled ones) - he ought to enjoy them and get a lot of affection from the crowds for doing so. Then focus on TTing and being a super-dom too.

Froome will be all set to defend the TdF next year and would be the most fancied person at the minute but I think it will be very hard for him to retain the crown given the likes of Quintana, Uran^2 & possibly Nibali.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

Wiggo should give Tony Martin a good run for his money in the World TT this year.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2013)

albion said:


> I quite recall last year when Wiggins said "Froome's time will come.....'" missing out a 'but over my dead body' means they will only really ride together with Wiggo as TDF team leader.
> 
> So where next for Wiggins ?


Poland.


----------



## Risex4 (22 Jul 2013)

albion said:


> I quite recall last year when Wiggins said "Froome's time will come.....'" missing out a 'but over my dead body' means they will only really ride together with Wiggo as TDF team leader.
> 
> So where next for Wiggins ?


 

I'm sure after his win last year, Wiggins said that "Froome's day will come, and I'll hopefully be there to do the work for him to do it" or something to that effect.


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Jul 2013)

Has Wiggins publicly acknowledged Froome's win (ie a congratulations)? I saw an article on SKY about celebs and well-to-do's who have congratulated him...Wiggins name was conspicuous by it's absence....

Is there really that much bad blood going on here.....?

I too think Brad should go for the Classics as they suit him far more than mountainous races. Those and target TT's (worlds TT for sure) as he's close to Martin in speed. Either that or He'll jump ship to another team (Garmin maybe where he was happy before SKY??) or even possibly go back to the track.........................or retire?


----------



## Risex4 (22 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Has Wiggins publicly acknowledged Froome's win (ie a congratulations)? I saw an article on SKY about celebs and well-to-do's who have congratulated him...Wiggins name was conspicuous by it's absence....
> 
> Is there really that much bad blood going on here.....?
> 
> I too think Brad should go for the Classics as they suit him far more than mountainous races. Those and target TT's (worlds TT for sure) as he's close to Martin in speed. Either that or He'll jump ship to another team (Garmin maybe where he was happy before SKY??) or even possibly go back to the track.........................or retire?


 

No, this whole Froome vs. Wiggins thing is ridiculous.

I haven't seen the article, but I'm guessing Knees or Uran haven't come out and congratulated him either? They're team mates, surely he'd do it by text or phone call or at the next training camp. Or maybe they have the kind of relationship where mutual backslapping simply isn't part of their dynamic and as pros they just got on with it. Who knows? But Brad doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would want to bask in someone else's reflected glory by hogging column inches to get himself "linked in". Why would he need to?

I don't have a first clue as to Wiggo's future, but there's more than enough on the Tour calender to satisfy both him and Froome I'd have thought, especially if Brad was being sincere when he said he might not go through another Grand Tour training cycle again. I just don't see why he would have any reason to consider leaving Sky right now.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Either that or He'll jump ship to another team (Garmin maybe where he was happy before SKY??)


 
Given what an ungrate he was when he left them, I'd hope Garmin would have nothing to do with him.


----------



## Slaav (22 Jul 2013)

Although I hate football almost with a passion (More what it stands for in this modern self obsessed day) an appropriate analogy may be picking an England football team? Plenty of 'cracking' strikers to pick from and two or three genuienly World Class chaps 

Now, how do you play them? How would you keep them if it was not the National Team and they could move around to (eg) Real or Barca etc?

The issue is, they are all three NOT identical players/strikers... One is more an attacking midfielder who can be relied upon to keep going every day and all day (Wiggo), one is an out and out striker (Froome) who can happily slot back in to Midfield if injury dictates and (eg) two brilliant all singing, all dancing attacking midfielders but not quite proven at the top level (Uran and Porte fro example.)

I imagine Sir DB would find a way of getting them all into one team? Sir Alex seemed to doa pretty good job with egos and tantrums over the years - albeit not always with 100% success 

With the different races on offer, the long season and very certain differences in the respective strengths of (eg) Wiggo, Froome and Uran (who is rumoured to be Ronaldo and on his way anyway,) I can imagine that with Sky's backing and brilliant overall squad, the make up of the various races will determine who is #1 in each team? As long as DB can manage the egos etc.

If there is a very TT based TdF next year, then lean towards Wiggo but Froome as holder would simply have to be default #1 unless massive TT miles. If hilly, then Froome? Leaving Giro and Vuelta for Uran/Porte or whoever loses out as top dog in the TdF?

I imagine Wiggo only has a few years left at the very top and he doesnt strike me as someone happy to be mediocre - although Super Dom and coming 2nd in TdF is something now that I believe he would do.... albeit unlikely to be required with their strength in depth? Wiggo seems to be having mind issues re the commitment and training required for GTs? If so, you would not want to flog Froome throughout the season surely?

Either way, GB TdF Champ 2012 1nd 2013! Who'd 'a thought it eh? 

Now what was DB's goal again when forming Sky Pro Cycling???? And what would it be now....


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Slaav said:


> Now what was DB's goal again when forming Sky Pro Cycling???? And what would it be now....


One of this year's goals was to get podiums on all 3 Grand Tours. So far so good. 
I think another would have involved the classics - the less said about that the better really...

Wiggo looks likely to go for the World TT this autumn. Tony Martin and Fabulous Cancellara will be having a crack too I think so that will be an awesome competition.

Will DB look to the ToBritain with perhaps a consolation prize for JTL ?


----------



## albion (22 Jul 2013)

Nope, Wiggins is just brooding.

He has had near 100% control over his career and probably battled to the end to get the 2013 leadership.
I'm sure he will adapt to a new reality, and far better silence than chancing to show some escaping bitterness

The hint of retiring quite shows the impact on his persona.


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> One of this year's goals was to get podiums on all 3 Grand Tours. So far so good.
> I think another would have involved the classics - the less said about that the better really...
> 
> Wiggo looks likely to go for the World TT this autumn. Tony Martin and Fabulous Cancellara will be having a crack too I think so that will be an awesome competition.
> ...


 

Would love to see JTL retain his ToB title...not seen enough of him this yr.


----------



## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

Women's Tour de France is a step closer - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-to-reviving-women-s-race-after-24-years.html


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Would love to see JTL retain his ToB title...not seen enough of him this yr.


he has under-performed certainly in the races he has done. I'm not sure why because he had/has talent. Anyone with some inside info?


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

Tour de France winner accused of not being Bradley Wiggins.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...ed-of-not-being-bradley-wiggins-2013072276396


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> he has under-performed certainly in the races he has done. I'm not sure why because he had/has talent. Anyone with some inside info?


 

I don't think anyone was expecting great things of him as a first yr neo-pro. It's like an apprenticeship, you have to serve your dues and do your time before you're put forward for greater duties. Also I think the training and racing tempo is much higher than what he might have been used to, so it may take him a fair while to settle into the role.
I suspect we'll see much more of him next yr or maybe 2015, once the SKY boffins have had him on a program for a while.


----------



## 400bhp (22 Jul 2013)

I can't see Wiggins competing seriously for another Grand Tour.

His body language in the interview and the words used told me that the TdF last year was his mental and physical limit.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> I don't think anyone was expecting great things of him as a first yr neo-pro. It's like an apprenticeship, you have to serve your dues and do your time before you're put forward for greater duties. Also I think the training and racing tempo is much higher than what he might have been used to, so it may take him a fair while to settle into the role.
> I suspect we'll see much more of him next yr or maybe 2015, once the SKY boffins have had him on a program for a while.


 
Could be imagining it, but I thought I read that he'd withdraw from Kerrigan's training schedules?


----------



## Chris Norton (22 Jul 2013)

Wiggins should go for the hour record. I would pay very good money to go see that.

Roll on the Vuelta.


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Jul 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Could be imagining it, but I thought I read that he'd withdraw from Kerrigan's training schedules?


 
Could be...we might get to know more as the ToB gets closer, as he would be expect to defend the title, so they may release more info then.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> Roll on the Vuelta.


 
Hang about - we've got the Eneco Tour first!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Could be imagining it, but I thought I read that he'd withdraw from Kerrigan's training schedules?


I read that too. I also read an anecdotal story of his partying but that may be just smoke, rumour and salacious gossip.
19th in the World Champs last autumn suggested he had potential to do better than he has so far.


----------



## zizou (22 Jul 2013)

Part of it will be the step up in standard but even accounting for that he has been pretty woeful with several DNFs and seemingly not being capable of doing much domestique work either (Edmonson on the other hand has done pretty well in his first year). In the British RR champs the course should have suited him but he was nowhere - from early on he was languishing in the main group with the domestic riders and top amateurs before chucking it. It wasn't that he was being outclassed by the likes of Cavendish, Millar and Stannard but also the likes of Wilkinson, House, Barker etc

It sometimes looks like an attitude problem but i've also read that he lost alot of weight (something like 9kg) in about 2 or 3 months on joining Sky. That would take a fair bit of dedication as he had already lost a fair chunk of weight the year before with Endura and reaped the benefits and had a good balance of power to weight for the short punchy climbs of the TofB and World Champs course. Perhaps he has lost too much weight too quickly and lost some power which taken away his strengths as a rider?


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Some great photos from the tour : http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/visuel/...-boucle-en-images-insolites_3451014_3242.html
including a couple of Quintana's family in Columbia.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

Mollema won in Boxmeer this evening. This is the one where Cav's invite was withdrawn: not entirely sure that reflects well on the organisers. 

Froome won in Aalst.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jul 2013)

I am sure i heard somewhere that Wiggo was going for the TOB. Anyone else hear that? 
He's still an amazing athlete and i have no doubt Sky still have a place for him with two leaders over the 3 grand tours and other events. 
Worth noting though that Wiggo is not a Classics rider. He's far from it. His consistency over a period of time is his forte. One powerhouse performance that a classic race requires is for the Sagans, Cancellara's and Boonen's. 

More importantly though can anyone actually wait for Froome vs Nibali @ TDF 2014??


----------



## andrew_s (22 Jul 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Mollema won in Boxmeer this evening. This is the one where Cav's invite was withdrawn: not entirely sure that reflects well on the organisers.


It never got as far as an invite.
The organisers said they had removed Cav from the list of potential invitees, which was the first Cav had heard of any possibility that he might ride there.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2013)

andrew_s said:


> It never got as far as an invite.
> The organisers said they had removed Cav from the list of potential invitees, which was the first Cav had heard of any possibility that he might ride there.


 
Yes - you're quite right. Probably trying to drum up a bit of interest for the race!


----------



## rich p (23 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I am sure i heard somewhere that Wiggo was going for the TOB. Anyone else hear that?
> He's still an amazing athlete and i have no doubt Sky still have a place for him with two leaders over the 3 grand tours and other events.
> Worth noting though that Wiggo is not a Classics rider. He's far from it. His consistency over a period of time is his forte. One powerhouse performance that a classic race requires is for the Sagans, Cancellara's and Boonen's.
> 
> More importantly though can anyone actually wait for Froome vs Nibali @ TDF 2014??


I thought I read that his programme would be Tour of Poland, ToB and the Worlds ITT.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Some great photos from the tour : http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/visuel/...-boucle-en-images-insolites_3451014_3242.html
> including a couple of Quintana's family in Columbia.


 
That shot of his father crying with practically every kid in his home town around behind him, is amazing. No-one seems to have remarked of Quintana, that he's not just 'South American' or 'Colombian', he seems clearly of mostly indigenous descent. You can see the contrast with Uran, for example.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 Jul 2013)

andrew_s said:


> It never got as far as an invite.
> The organisers said they had removed Cav from the list of potential invitees, which was the first Cav had heard of any possibility that he might ride there.


 
He didn't seem too cut up about it...


----------



## thom (23 Jul 2013)

More great pictures : http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2013/07/tour_de_france_100th_edition_p_1.html


----------



## Dave Davenport (23 Jul 2013)

I might order a couple of these;
http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/index.php?route=product/category&path=33_62


----------



## themosquitoking (23 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That shot of his father crying with practically every kid in his home town around behind him, is amazing. No-one seems to have remarked of Quintana, that he's not just 'South American' or 'Colombian', he seems clearly of mostly indigenous descent. You can see the contrast with Uran, for example.


 
Those photo's do seem to suggest that Froome pushed Porte around the course.


----------



## User169 (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I might order a couple of these;
> http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/index.php?route=product/category&path=33_62


 
I really like those. I think he's got better this year as he's had to think a bit harder to do different things.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I might order a couple of these;
> http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/index.php?route=product/category&path=33_62


I think @Noodley ordered some last year and wasn't impressed.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That shot of his father crying with practically every kid in his home town around behind him, is amazing. No-one seems to have remarked of Quintana, that he's not just 'South American' or 'Colombian', he seems clearly of mostly indigenous descent. You can see the contrast with Uran, for example.


 
I thought I'd mentioned this but maybe not... My dad used to work in South America and still has close friends in Colombia, and according to them, Quintana is not all that popular among metropolitan Colombians of European descent - he's very much seen as an "Indian", rather than "one of them". Uran is much more popular.


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## raindog (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Quintana is not all that popular among metropolitan Colombians of European descent - he's very much seen as an "Indian", rather than "one of them". Uran is much more popular.


That's incredibly sad and depressing.


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## jifdave (23 Jul 2013)

my mate, finally got his pictures on his pc... my two fav froome pics and a fashionable young man...


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## User169 (23 Jul 2013)

Spare a thought for Lieuwe Westra..

_"...who completed 3,376 of the Tour's 3,404km, only to step off his bike and have his race number removed on the Champs-Élysées, with less than 40km to complete. Having ridden through illness for three days, the Dutchman was dropped by the peloton and seems to have elected to abandon rather than endure the humiliation of being lapped on the famousParisienne avenue and disqualified for finishing outside the time limit. The first cyclist to quit on the final stage of the Tour since 1977, he was understandably distraught: "How hard can a sport be?"he tweeted. "I kept going for 3 days while sick just to finish the race, then got dropped on the finishing circuit. I can tell you.....""_


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## johnr (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I thought I'd mentioned this but maybe not... My dad used to work in South America and still has close friends in Colombia, and according to them, Quintana is not all that popular among metropolitan Colombians of European descent - he's very much seen as an "Indian", rather than "one of them". Uran is much more popular.


 I was opposite a large Colombian contingent on the Champs on Sunday. They kept up a loud chorus of 'Quintana, Quintana' all day, shouting down the Sagan fans whenever the opportunity arose. They got lots of 'chapeaux' checks from the cheer-leaders in the caravan and spent an hour or so mid-afternoon organising a passable Mexican wave. Despite the large number of Brit flags, not much vocal support for Froome.

I almost feel sorry for Froome: easy to admire his achievements, but impossible to like. A kiosk proprietor gave me a free donut after the race because 'you must be sad that Cav lost'. He acknowledged Froome's victory with a shrug.


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## Peteaud (23 Jul 2013)

johnr said:


> I was opposite a large Colombian contingent on the Champs on Sunday. They kept up a loud chorus of 'Quintana, Quintana' all day, shouting down the Sagan fans whenever the opportunity arose. They got lots of 'chapeaux' checks from the cheer-leaders in the caravan and spent an hour or so mid-afternoon organising a passable Mexican wave. Despite the large number of Brit flags, not much vocal support for Froome.
> 
> I almost feel sorry for Froome: easy to admire his achievements, but impossible to like. A kiosk proprietor gave me a free donut after the race because 'you must be sad that Cav lost'. He acknowledged Froome's victory with a shrug.


 

When I went past the Colombians they had lost the plot and had some kind of makeshift drumming contest.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2013)

johnr said:


> I was opposite a large Colombian contingent on the Champs on Sunday. They kept up a loud chorus of 'Quintana, Quintana' all day, shouting down the Sagan fans whenever the opportunity arose. They got lots of 'chapeaux' checks from the cheer-leaders in the caravan and spent an hour or so mid-afternoon organising a passable Mexican wave. Despite the large number of Brit flags, not much vocal support for Froome.
> 
> I almost feel sorry for Froome: easy to admire his achievements, but impossible to like. A kiosk proprietor gave me a free donut after the race because 'you must be sad that Cav lost'. He acknowledged Froome's victory with a shrug.


 
It's an interesting comparison. Froome is certainly not as popular among the British non-cycling-fan public as Wiggins, which is kind of understandable. I really don't get the "impossible to like" thing from people who consider themselves cycling fans though.

Maybe Froome should grow some comedy facial hair and start hanging out with celebrities.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> That's incredibly sad and depressing.


 
But not surprising. I now like Quintana even more.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I thought I read that his programme would be Tour of Poland, ToB and the Worlds ITT.


 
Wiggo is confirmed for Poland according to the official race website, but not the Sky website, which doesn't have details up yet.

If Wiggo's doing the ToB, does that mean he won't be representing Sky in the World TTT? Saving himself for the individual TT?


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## thom (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's an interesting comparison. Froome is certainly not as popular among the British non-cycling-fan public as Wiggins, which is kind of understandable. I really don't get the "impossible to like" thing from people who consider themselves cycling fans though.
> 
> Maybe Froome should grow some comedy facial hair and start hanging out with celebrities.


 
People are still getting to know the TdF, road bike racing in general and Chris Froome in particular, which is why there are a lot of unperceptive simplistic opinions on him.
In the UK people know the Olympics, they know Wiggins has medals galore and that his name has been around for years and years in the wider sporting consciousness. It is easy to support him and he has helped generate interest in road racing, even more so that Cav (who has no Olympic medals...).

Froome has more talent and potential as a GC rider but despite his already superior road racing palmares, people think the Olympics is the top and somehow it ought to endow Wiggins with a divine right to lead Sky for example. In a sense that undermines Wiggins' TdF victory last year - his transition to a GC contender from the track is unprecedented.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2013)

Tbh, I don't much care that Froome hasn't captured the imagination of the non-cycling-fan public. I've long since come to terms with the fact that cycling is a minority interest sport in the UK, and I found the adulation for Wiggo last year slightly bizarre. It's more a case of back to normal this year.

I am disappointed to hear that some British fans weren't giving him vocal support on the route though. You'd think that people who made the effort to go out to France to see the race would be a bit more knowledgeable and enthusiastic. However, I'm encouraged to believe that the people johnr saw aren't necessarily representative of all British cycling fans...


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## thom (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I am disappointed to hear that some British fans weren't giving him vocal support on the route though. You'd think that people who made the effort to go out to France to see the race would be a bit more knowledgeable and enthusiastic. However, I'm encouraged to believe that the people johnr saw aren't necessarily representative of all British cycling fans...


What I find bizarre are the people on this forum who can't see Froome's superiority over Wiggins - see the thread speculating on whether Wiggins will ride the tour with Froome next year. Or don't if you value your sanity...


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## perplexed (23 Jul 2013)

I think that if Wiggins had been riding against Froome at the Tour, Froome woulda opened up a can of whoopass on him...


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## VamP (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's an interesting comparison. Froome is certainly not as popular among the British non-cycling-fan public as Wiggins, which is kind of understandable. I really don't get the "impossible to like" thing from people who consider themselves cycling fans though.
> 
> Maybe Froome should grow some comedy facial hair and start hanging out with celebrities.


 
I don't really like Froome.

There I said it. I don't think he's a cheat, and I think he's an amazingly strong all rounder. Yet I still don't like him. I am not sure why. I don't think a comedy beard would do the trick.


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## Peteaud (23 Jul 2013)

I went and shouted myself silly for froome.

Didnt really get him last year as he looked awkward, but, this year the more ive seen of him the more i like him.

Decent, honest sportsman who is one of our best riders.

Long may he continue.

Oh and he is just a machine...


From Sky
.Far from taking a break, Chris Froome and Richie Porte rode the Natourcriterium van Aalst last night and sealed an unofficial 1-2 victory for Team Sky!


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## mrbadexample (23 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I don't really like Froome.


 
I find him quite hard to like too. He needs a bit more personality, for me.

Having said that, I've warmed to him quite a lot during this Tour because of the manner in which he won, i.e. in style. Whilst I was delighted with last year's result, it wasn't terribly exciting - Wiggo was basically dragged round for the win. Froome had to man up a bit more when things got tough, and the mountain stage wins were exceptional. I'm pretty much converted.


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## rich p (23 Jul 2013)

I don't rate whether I could go down the boozer with a rider as high on my priorities. Liking and disliking people in the public eye based upon occasional soundbites is a fairly rough and ready approach anyay.
Having said that, I have found Froome pleasantly mannered, humble and self-effacing.
He was more dignified in his answers to the dope-obsessed journos than most would have been, and he showed himself to be a cyclist who isn't afraid to have a go even when he didn't need to and couldn't sustain it.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I don't rate whether I could go down the boozer with a rider as high on my priorities. Liking and disliking people in the public eye based upon occasional soundbites is a fairly rough and ready approach anyay.
> Having said that, I have found Froome pleasantly mannered, humble and self-effacing.
> He was more dignified in his answers to the dope-obsessed journos than most would have been, and he showed himself to be a cyclist who isn't afraid to have a go even when he didn't need to and couldn't sustain it.


Fair play to him. He played some tricky bouncers with very soft hands. I have enormous respect for him but, as the French might say, je ne le sens pas.


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## RWright (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I might order a couple of these;
> http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/index.php?route=product/category&path=33_62


 
I like some of those. I made some nice desktop wallpaper out of a couple of them.


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## rich p (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I might order a couple of these;
> http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/index.php?route=product/category&path=33_62


I was very underwhelmed by mine last year. Looked better on screen than in the flesh.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I was very underwhelmed by mine last year. Looked better on screen than in the flesh.


 
Maybe not then.


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## RWright (23 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I was very underwhelmed by mine last year. Looked better on screen than in the flesh.


 
OK, thanks. I will just use them as wallpaper on the computer.


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## rich p (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Maybe not then.


I've either saved you $80 plus p&p, or spoilt what would have been two beautiful works of art Chez Dave!


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## RWright (23 Jul 2013)

I like Froome, he is a skinny little fella but he can ride the piss out of a bicycle and seems nice enough I thought. Just not as flamboyant as some others, sort of humble in the interviews I have seen and seems well spoken enough for a bicycle racer. I also like how he takes care of business.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2013)

It would be educational to do a Venn diagram of people dissing Froome in this thread for not being enough of a character and people dissing Sagan in the other thread for being too much of a character.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jul 2013)

I don't see what's not to like about the bloke, he's an exciting, attacking rider, he's not cocky, he seems polite and well mannered. He's a great athlete, not some sort of entertainer who lives on their personality.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I've either saved you $80 plus p&p, or spoilt what would have been two beautiful works of art Chez Dave!


Hey ho, it's a fair bit of beer and tapas.


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## Strathlubnaig (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> It would be educational to do a Venn diagram of people dissing Froome in this thread for not being enough of a character and people dissing Sagan in the other thread for being too much of a character.


dont forget to include the folk who slated froome last year and then feted him this year.


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## Strathlubnaig (23 Jul 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I don't see what's not to like about the bloke, he's an exciting, attacking rider, he's not cocky, he seems polite and well mannered. He's a great athlete, not some sort of entertainer who lives on their personality.


He is polite, pleasant, speaks some good French, doesnt use the C word (in public anyway)...a polite and smiling assasin I do believe.


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## Noodley (23 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> I think @Noodley ordered some last year and wasn't impressed.



Not at all. I ordered a print and was very pleased with it.


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## laurence (23 Jul 2013)

Peteaud said:


> When I went past the Colombians they had lost the plot and had some kind of makeshift drumming contest.


 
there was at least half of Colombia there. at the end of the Champs, where le Arc strted there were groups on either side, singing and chanting to each other across the divide. most of the crowd were brits, lots of norwergians, some Basques (girlski and I were in Basque t-shirts, which annoyed some brit fans who repeatedly tried to push us out of the spot we'd been in for hours), not many yanks (good) didn't see the dutch at all and some cute slovakian girls cheering on Sagan.

phew, what a scorcher, the tarmac was melting around le Arc.


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## Peteaud (23 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> there was at least half of Colombia there. at the end of the Champs, where le Arc strted there were groups on either side, singing and chanting to each other across the divide. most of the crowd were brits, lots of norwergians, some Basques (girlski and I were in Basque t-shirts, which annoyed some brit fans who repeatedly tried to push us out of the spot we'd been in for hours), not many yanks (good) didn't see the dutch at all and some cute slovakian girls cheering on Sagan.
> 
> phew, what a scorcher, the tarmac was melting around le Arc.


 

We sat in an organic cafe place just off the Arc, very nice and with good A/C

Notices the tarmac melting as we walked around to the video screen from victor hugo


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## Crackle (23 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Not at all. I ordered a print and was very pleased with it.


Yeah, it was Rich. I was mixing you up. Easy done


----------



## Chris Norton (23 Jul 2013)

The shop down the road from me had a giant union flag on the gable wall last year with Wiggo yellow jersey, olympic gold and loads of medals as the olympics panned out.

This year, same flag and a new jersey with Froome written on it (and a small baby grow for the new prince). Plenty of support here for Froome.


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## jifdave (23 Jul 2013)

i like froome as a rider, but hes just not quite as british as wiggo(i know wiggos a belgstralian) but froome grew up in africa and is a proud african, he only became british to further his cycling career. 

Froome still has my 100% support but if he were racing wiggo id choose wiggo to support every time


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## themosquitoking (23 Jul 2013)

jifdave said:


> i like froome as a rider, but hes just not quite as british as wiggo(i know wiggos a belgstralian) but froome grew up in africa and is a proud african, he only became british to further his cycling career.
> 
> Froome still has my 100% support but if he were racing wiggo id choose wiggo to support every time


 
Support Wiggo but bet on Froome.


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## mrbadexample (23 Jul 2013)

Any of you lot on here?


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## threebikesmcginty (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> View attachment 26634


 

Well hello!


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## laurence (23 Jul 2013)

mrbadexample said:


> Any of you lot on here?


nope, but i was just along the road from you as i could see that lot too


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## SWSteve (23 Jul 2013)

I've warmed to Froome over the tour. Before I found him a bit shy, but his resentment to all of the doping questions made me think "This guy knows what he is doing, and MUST be clean" and to be honest, he's put his heart on his sleeve at times. I'm a fan, but not as much as I am of Wiggo. I didn't even watch the tour last year, nor did I follow track cycling prior to the Olympics.

I'm a fan of Wiggo purely because he is a bit of a tw*t


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## ayceejay (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I thought I'd mentioned this but maybe not... My dad used to work in South America and still has close friends in Colombia, and according to them, Quintana is not all that popular among metropolitan Colombians of European descent - he's very much seen as an "Indian", rather than "one of them". Uran is much more popular.


I think I speak for many when I say f'em.


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> dont forget to include the folk who slated froome last year and then feted him this year.


 
I've never been a fan of Froome, and I still haven't warmed to him. I don't know why, and it's nothing rational, there's just something a bit creepy about him.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2013)

VamP said:


> I don't really like Froome.
> 
> There I said it. I don't think he's a cheat, and I think he's an amazingly strong all rounder. Yet I still don't like him. I am not sure why. I don't think a comedy beard would do the trick.



I have no problem with people not liking him. We all have our favourites and the reasons for our choices don't need to be justified with rational arguments - that's the beauty of sport. 

But I do have a problem with some of the things that have been said about him. For example, Brits aren't obliged to cheer for Froome just because he's British, but to refuse to cheer him because he's not British enough seems a bit weird to me. 

On reflection, the comparison with Sagan or Wiggins may not be the most useful one. Perhaps it would be more educational to look at who prefers Voeckler and who prefers Froome.


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## Chromatic (24 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> View attachment 26634


 
I'll have an E please Bob.


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## rich p (24 Jul 2013)

Chromatic said:


> I'll have an E please Bob.


I think you'll find that E is on the WADA banned list. You may better off just having an F.


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

Okay, that's the 2013 TdF done! 

Here's some news about the 2014 edition ... I was out on my bike the other day and discovered that our council are already starting to patch up the roads to be used on the local Yorkshire stage next year.

Traffic calming measures are being added to the road coming out of Mytholmroyd before the foot of the Cragg Vale climb and I observed that they are bolting down a temporary pedestrian refuge rather than building a permanent one. I reckon that they are thinking ahead and will remove it before the Tour's arrival?

The local media are still describing the Cragg Vale climb as a 'stiff challenge' for the Tour riders. It involves 968 ft of climbing in 5.5 miles, an average gradient of only about 3.3%, with one short section at about 8%. 'Stiff challenge' - ha - I managed to get up it in about 30 minutes even when unfit and suffering from a DVT and pulmonary embolism! If they bother to categorise it at all, I reckon it will be a cat 4 climb.

PS To show the way that official minds work ... Despite the fact that our roads are in an awful state and need a lot of money spending on them, the council has seen fit to replace the sign at the foot of the Cragg Vale climb with a shiny new one. I sense a TV photo-opportunity in the making. They couldn't let the cameras focus on the tatty old sign ...






... so they splashed out on a new one!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2013)

It was the same at the Olympics - "How on earth will these poor weedy Continentals cope with the magnificent Himalayan splendour of Box Hill?"


----------



## Rob3rt (24 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> The local media are still describing the Cragg Vale climb as a 'stiff challenge' for the Tour riders. It involves 968 ft of climbing in 5.5 miles, an average gradient of only about 3.3%, with one short section at about 8%. 'Stiff challenge' - ha - I managed to get up it in about 30 minutes even when unfit and suffering from a DVT and pulmonary embolism! If they bother to categorise it at all, I reckon it will be a cat 4 climb.


 
Cragg Vale is indeed easy. I could probably get up there in less than 21 mins, maybe less than 20, especially with a tailwind  Took me ~25 mins to roll up it at tempo back in January, including standing at a temp traffic light for several minutes.

They have to big it up though, would be a bit unexciting to say, "they are going to ride along a rather drab bit of slightly uphill road for 5.5 miles" and I suppose if you are bad at going uphill it is a challenge of sorts.


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Cragg Vale is indeed easy. I could probably get up there in less than 21 mins, maybe less than 20, especially with a tailwind  Took me 25 mins to roll up it at tempo back in January, including standing at a temp traffic light for several minutes.


It's pretty rare to get a decent tailwind on it. There is usually a cross-headwind coming from the front-right.

Hmm, if they got a strong crosswind that day, that could actually make the exposed top half of the climb pretty exciting after all! I've experienced wind so strong up there that I had to stand up in my bottom gear to make any forward progress. They would have had the same wind coming up from Oxenhope. Let's hope for a windy day, eh!

They will be doing a quick descent to Ripponden after Blackstone Edge and the climb out of the village is a lot stiffer, but it is only short.


----------



## BSRU (24 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> The local media are still describing the Cragg Vale climb as a 'stiff challenge' for the Tour riders. It involves 968 ft of climbing in 5.5 miles, an average gradient of only about 3.3%, with one short section at about 8%. 'Stiff challenge' - ha - I managed to get up it in about 30 minutes even when unfit and suffering from a DVT and pulmonary embolism! If they bother to categorise it at all, I reckon it will be a cat 4 climb.


It will probably be a cat 3, 5.5 miles is 8,851 metres, so the points for the cat would be 3.3 * 8,851 = 29,208, above 16,000 is a cat 3 and above 32,000 would have made it a cat 2.


----------



## Rob3rt (24 Jul 2013)

I would call into question why many of the UK's "classic" climbs are deemed as such because most of them are not hard to ride up at a steady pace (anything is hard if you try to do it as fast as possible), they are not exactly the kind of thing that pits you against your demons, lol.

I did the Cat and Fiddle last week, for the 1st time (shame on me, lived near-ish it for ~7 years), it is another one of these "greatest climbs", but I rode up it twice in about an hour, once leisurely and once racing, there was no point on the climb that could be deemed "difficult" or "challenging".


----------



## fimm (24 Jul 2013)

Some of the comments about Froome remind me of some of the things people said about Andy Murray...


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

BSRU said:


> It will probably be a cat 3, 5.5 miles is 8,851 metres, so the points for the cat would be 3.3 * 8,851 = 29,208, above 16,000 is a cat 3 and above 32,000 would have made it a cat 2.


Is there a website with a climb category calculator? I always thought that the categories were a bit flexible.


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

fimm said:


> Some of the comments about Froome remind me of some of the things people said about Andy Murray...


People accused Andy Murray of being Kenyan?


----------



## BSRU (24 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> How do you get to the 3.3?
> 
> Also do we know for sure it will be going over Cragg Vale? I thought the route wasnt out until October?


I am using the average gradient from the post.


----------



## BSRU (24 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Is there a website with a climb category calculator? I always thought that the categories were a bit flexible.


No, I found a website a while ago that explained the cat system.
It is the length in metres multiplied by the average gradient to give a number which corresponds to the cat of the climb.
It also stated the average gradient has to be at least 3%.
Cat 4 >= 8000,
Cat 3 >= 16000,
Cat 2 >= 32000,
Cat 1 >= 64000,
HC >= 80000.

I think they have lots of flexibility when assigning a cat to a climb.


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> How do you get to the 3.3?


((968/(5.5 x 1760 x 3)) x 100)%


User3094 said:


> Also do we know for sure it will be going over Cragg Vale? I thought the route wasnt out until October?


The routes of the Yorkshire stages have already been published - here, for example.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (24 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Okay, that's the 2013 TdF done!
> 
> Here's some news about the 2014 edition ... I was out on my bike the other day and discovered that our council are already starting to patch up the roads to be used on the local Yorkshire stage next year.
> 
> ...


 
That was on one of the cycling tv programs I saw the other day.

Did we go up that on one of your rides colin ?


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Did we go up that on one of your rides colin ?


We certainly did it on this one with you, Phil. There have probably been others too.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (24 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> We certainly did it on this one with you, Phil. There have probably been others too.


 

Ah right I thought we had done it just couldn't remember when


----------



## thom (24 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> I think you'll find that E is on the WADA banned list. You may better off just having an F.


Wasn't there a sprinter who blamed his failure of a test for testosterone on having an F with his girlfriend because it was her birthday ?


----------



## thom (24 Jul 2013)

BSRU said:


> No, I found a website a while ago that explained the cat system.
> It is the length in metres multiplied by the average gradient to give a number which corresponds to the cat of the climb.
> It also stated the average gradient has to be at least 3%.
> Cat 4 >= 8000,
> ...


Originally that categorisation was the gear that was required to drive a 2CV (or some such ancient french vehicle) over the pass in question. HC meant you couldn't get the car up it.


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Wasn't there a sprinter who blamed his failure of a test for testosterone on having an F with his girlfriend because it was her birthday ?


Dennis Mitchell?
edit -
Yep - well remembered Rich p!
_His defense of "five bottles of beer and sex with his wife at least four times . . . it was her birthday, the lady deserved a treat," was accepted by USA Track and Field but not by the IA_AF


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2013)

User3094 said:


> I suppose you've already got a house full on July 4th 2014??


Aye!

I think there will be a Yorkshire-full, TBH ... Hotels and B&Bs started booking up as soon as the announcement was made.

I reckon the best bet would be to try the local campsites. There is a small site by the New Delight Inn at Jack Bridge, about 3 miles from Hebden Bridge. Lovely spot, and the pub is 100 ft from your tent. Contact Hebden Bridge Camping.

Also try Jerusalem Farm campsite (rated 6th best in the UK!). Another lovely location, handy for the local stage.


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## deptfordmarmoset (25 Jul 2013)

PHOTOS


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## laurence (26 Jul 2013)

i have a hotel in York for next year's Grand Depart. seems sensible to stay in once place and 'commute' to the stages.


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## Noodley (27 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> ... suffering from a DVT and pulmonary embolism!


 
Sheesh you kept that quiet Colin, you shoulda mentioned it before...


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## ColinJ (27 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> Sheesh you kept that quiet Colin, you shoulda mentioned it before...


Oh, sugar, I thought I told somebody but didn't realise that it was on here! 

On a serious note ... I _know_ I keep banging on about it and it is tedious, but new people are joining CycleChat all the time and they will not have read my numerous earlier posts on the subject. 

The truth is that out of every 10 people I speak to, only about 2 or 3 know what a DVT is and most of them do not know how quickly they can break up and cause life-threatening or crippling emboli.

I just don't get why a disease that is largely preventable, but kills many times more people every year than breast cancer/AIDS/RTAs combined, doesn't get more attention from governments and health bodies!

So, boring though it is, I am going to carry on mentioning the subject wherever I think it might help somebody. Sooner or later, a CycleChatter will rush themself, a family member, a friend or colleague to A&E after reading one of my posts and realising that they have developed a DVT. If even one life can be saved by me being even more boring than I was pre-illness, then sorry - you will just have to put up with it, or ignore me. 

If you have a few moments to spare, read some of these heart-rending stories and take the message on board ...

[Post 917 of a serious of 36,789 on DVT/PE, brought to you free, gratis and for nothing by BigClot Productions! ]


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## Stonechat (27 Jul 2013)

Dad had DVT so I know what it is.

Froome seems to have had a charisma bypass

What you get from Cav or Wiggo - though v different personalities - is a deep love of the sport of cycling. Not sure about Froome


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## Noodley (27 Jul 2013)

Fair point I suppose Colin, let's just hope not every CCer follows the same line or we'll have a forum full of illness and injury reminders.


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## Peteaud (27 Jul 2013)

I must be the only one who thinks both Froome and Sagan are Cool.


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## Pedrosanchezo (27 Jul 2013)

Peteaud said:


> I must be the only one who thinks both Froome and Sagan are Cool.


Well i like both Arnie and Neil Patrick Harris. That the same?


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## smutchin (28 Jul 2013)

Stonechat said:


> Froome seems to have had a charisma bypass


 
You can't glean anything meaningful about anyone's personality from a post-race interview. Look at most footballers - they've had their personality media-trained out of them, so any time you see a footballer being interviewed, they give the blandest, most anodyne answers to all questions. And then they go out and get drunk/get in a fight/shag their brother's wife/all of the above.

Froome is a reserved character, certainly, but he has become noticeably more comfortable and confident in interviews over the past year. And more forthright in expressing his opinions. He's also intelligent and knows when it's in his own interests to keep his mouth shut. I thought his speech on the winner's podium in Paris was eloquent and from the heart. He may not have called the internet haterz daffodils in so many words but what he said amounted to the same thing.

Personally, I like my cyclists to express their personality on the bike and Froome is a much more exciting rider to watch than Wiggo.



> What you get from Cav or Wiggo - though v different personalities - is a deep love of the sport of cycling. Not sure about Froome


 
I'd say it's pretty clear that Froome loves cycling. Given his background, it wouldn't have been possible for him to get where he is today if he didn't really, really want to do it.


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## User169 (1 Aug 2013)

Nice little vid here of Bruce Doscher making one of his posters..


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViGUIjdc6OA


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## thom (14 Aug 2013)

Quintana gets a nice reception back in Colombia :


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## tug benson (29 Jun 2014)

Louch said:


> Don't see the need for brad bashing, they have both done great achievements


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## Louch (29 Jun 2014)

tug benson said:


>


I was always on Paceys side, Dawson didnt deserve Joey. the blonde rich kid stealing the every guy dark haired guy was forshadowed back then!


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