# DFDS Seaways - Grrrrr!!!!



## Dave Davenport (5 Feb 2011)

Was planning on doing part of the North Sea cycle route from the Hook of Holland to Esbjerg (Denmark) in August but DFDS seaways won't let you on their ferries without a motorised vehicle in July and August  

Have e mailed them asking them to explain the reason for this policy and why a bicycle is not a vehicle when it's listed on the choose type of vehicle drop down list on their booking page. I'm not intending to let it lie!


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (5 Feb 2011)

Policy must have changed because I was on their ferry on the Esbjerg route last July.
Its Irish ferries that are causing me issues - you can book 2 adults but only 1 bike per booking, so will have to make 2 bookings instead!


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## Brains (5 Feb 2011)

Now having been in the Shipping industry for over 30 years I can actually see the (skewed) logic behind this decision!
The reason is very simple. Economics.

A ship on this sort of a run, makes a massive loss during the winter months, it would actually be cheaper to tie it up and sack the crew, however like a shop during February where the outgoings exceed the incomings, you don't close the shop and sack the staff for the Feb-April months

June-August is the only time these ships run at a real profit, and they make the money by the lane meter of the RoRo deck, and as the ship is running at maximum passenger capacity a cyclist is quite frankly a pain in the arse


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (5 Feb 2011)

can't see anything on the site I use for DFDS that says this policy - in fact the oppostite
I randomly picked 14th July 2011 on the Harwich to Esbjerg route and it has allowed me to select 2 adults and 2 bikes without issue.
can't upload the screenshot, but seems no issues at present - went from this link


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## Dave Davenport (5 Feb 2011)

aramok said:


> can't see anything on the site I use for DFDS that says this policy - in fact the oppostite
> I randomly picked 14th July 2011 on the Harwich to Esbjerg route and it has allowed me to select 2 adults and 2 bikes without issue.
> can't upload the screenshot, but seems no issues at present - went from this link




It wouldn't let me book bikes on line so I e mailed them and got this back;
Good Afternoon.

Thank you for your recent email.

At the moment you have to have a vehicle to travel in July and August.

I am sorry if this has caused you any problems.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Many thanks.

Barbara Godson.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (5 Feb 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> It wouldn't let me book bikes on line so I e mailed them and got this back;
> Good Afternoon.
> 
> Thank you for your recent email.
> ...



Curious because on the 12th July (14th was fully booked) it let me get all the way through to putting payment details in...
does seem odd though


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## Domestique (6 Feb 2011)

Is a bicycle not a vehicle ? 
It also doesnt allow a booking if you opt for no vehicle,


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (6 Feb 2011)

on DFDS a bike is a vehicle and is in the drop down list to choose. they also ask how many vehicles and you can select 2 and then set both to bikes.
Emma


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## Domestique (6 Feb 2011)

No joy for me, wanting to travel 30/7 from Harwich and returning on the 18/8.
Yet if I try to book with a car no problem.
Will try giving them a call later today, but looks as though the first and last few days of this years tour is going to involve a train to the Dutch German boarder


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## andrew_s (6 Feb 2011)

Brains said:


> June-August is the only time these ships run at a real profit, and they make the money by the lane meter of the RoRo deck, and as the ship is running at maximum passenger capacity a cyclist is quite frankly a pain in the arse



So is it the case that with a full complement of vehicles there isn't any capacity for any other passengers at all? Bikes take up zero vehicle space on the RoRo decks.

When the channel ferries were chokka because of the Icelandic volcano, cyclists were the only ones who could get on. Full of vehicles, up to the limit of foot passengers, but still taking bikes (which resulted in people buying €49 supermarket BSOs in Calais, crossing, then dumping them in Dover). 
Presumably this was a certification issue - physical space for X cars with Y passengers, lifeboats & liferafts for Z people, foot passenger capacity = Z - Y, bicycles ignored.


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## Dave Davenport (6 Feb 2011)

aramok said:


> on DFDS a bike is a vehicle and is in the drop down list to choose. they also ask how many vehicles and you can select 2 and then set both to bikes.
> Emma



It still won't let you book with bikes, this is my reply to thier e mail;


Hi Barbara, Thanks for your reply and yes, this does cause us a problem. Please could you explain why we need to travel with a vehicle and why a bicycle doesn't count as a vehicle when it's listed on the choose vehicle list on your booking page. Thanks,Dave Davenport


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## Domestique (6 Feb 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> It still won't let you book with bikes, this is my reply to thier e mail;
> 
> 
> Hi Barbara, Thanks for your reply and yes, this does cause us a problem. Please could you explain why we need to travel with a vehicle and why a bicycle doesn't count as a vehicle when it's listed on the choose vehicle list on your booking page. Thanks,Dave Davenport



Something I dont understand, if you book from Esbjerg to Harwich return you can take a bike.
It only seems to apply with travel from Harwich, or rather tickets starting from Harwich.


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## pshore (6 Feb 2011)

Brains said:


> ... The reason is very simple. Economics.



If that is the case they should put a charge on bikes - supply and demand init. To be met with 'computer says no' is one of lifes head banging moments.

Do motorbikes get the same treatment ?


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## Dave Davenport (15 Feb 2011)

Haven't had any reply to my last mail to them so just sent this;

Hi Barbara,



Still waiting for your response to my last mail from ten days ago?



There are quite a few people from the UK on-line cycling community interested in your company’s response. It has also been asked whether dfds would accept a booking for a bicycle if the car rate or a higher bicycle rate was paid and also, whether if a car was booked but we turned up on bikes would we be allowed to board?



Hope to hear from you soon.



Dave Davenport


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## Dave Davenport (17 Feb 2011)

Had an e mail back saying they'd passed this on to their head office and would respond in due course. 

I've just looked at the booking site again and it will let you book with a motorbike for £34, two bikes would be a tenner so that's only an extra £24, as long as they let us on when we get there. I wouldn't mind if they said there's a minimum £34 vehicle charge in July & August.


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## andym (17 Feb 2011)

Maybe you could claim it's a human-powered motorbike?


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## slowmotion (17 Feb 2011)

It does seem a pretty daft policy from DFDS. The bike parking areas on the ferries that I've been on are physically separate from the cars and lorries, so it isn't as though the bikes limit the number of other vehicles. Maybe their ferries are different.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (17 Feb 2011)

motor bikes are off to the side from cars, and then bicycles were off on the otherside, simply attached to the side of the ferry, again in a seperate area behind a seperate white line.


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## psmiffy (18 Feb 2011)

I have travelled on DFDS all over the place - always been pretty good - mind you I have never tried booking 

Midsummer though they are always well booked for cabins on Harwich to Esjberg and stupidly expensive - tend to have flown to Copenhagen or Stockholm or cycled up from Hoek


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## slowmotion (18 Feb 2011)

Actually, on a strictly commercial basis, DFDS might have a plan. Cyclists might occupy cabins but pay little for the bikes. Motorists who want a cabin pay good money on the car deck. Not entirely ideal, but not stupid if you run a ferry.

Pleeeeeease, this is not a P&L point!


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## mcshroom (18 Feb 2011)

slowmotion said:


> Actually, on a strictly commercial basis, DFDS might have a plan. Cyclists might occupy cabins but pay little for the bikes. Motorists who want a cabin pay good money on the car deck. Not entirely ideal, but not stupid if you run a ferry.
> 
> Pleeeeeease, this is not a P&L point!



This could be true for the overnight section. On the other hand, my family (and frow what I have seen many others) drive onto ferries and take a collection of food and drink up with them, therefore buying just about nothing on the ferry. 

I would have thought that cyclists are more likely to buy things from the shops and restaurants as it saves on carrying extra food and drink on the bike.


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## Dave Davenport (18 Feb 2011)

slowmotion said:


> Actually, on a strictly commercial basis, DFDS might have a plan. Cyclists might occupy cabins but pay little for the bikes. Motorists who want a cabin pay good money on the car deck. Not entirely ideal, but not stupid if you run a ferry.
> 
> Pleeeeeease, this is not a P&L point!




Yes, that's obviously the reason but I don't see why they can't just charge the motorbike rate for cycles during July & August and let you book, which would, in effect be a £24 'peak season' supplement.


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## andym (18 Feb 2011)

slowmotion said:


> Actually, on a strictly commercial basis, DFDS might have a plan. Cyclists might occupy cabins but pay little for the bikes. Motorists who want a cabin pay good money on the car deck. Not entirely ideal, but not stupid if you run a ferry.
> 
> Pleeeeeease, this is not a P&L point!



I thought ferry companies made their money on the cabins - at least on overnight ferries. But anyhow, the only reason I can think of for the DFDS policy (apart from corporate stupidity) is that cyclists might be taking up cabin space that otherwise would be occupied by motorists, and the motorists would be deterred from travelling, and so they'd end up with unsold vehicle-carrying capacity. But it sounds pretty implausible to me.


What's a P&L point?


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## slowmotion (18 Feb 2011)

andym said:


> I thought ferry companies made their money on the cabins - at least on overnight ferries. But anyhow, the only reason I can think of for the DFDS policy (apart from corporate stupidity) is that cyclists might be taking up cabin space that otherwise would be occupied by motorists, and the motorists would be deterred from travelling, and so they'd end up with unsold vehicle-carrying capacity. But it sounds pretty implausible to me.
> 
> 
> What's a P&L point?



I absolutely agree.

Politics and Life = P&L. I was just hoping that the thread wouldn't degenerate into an unseemly argument about the evils of capitalism.


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## andym (19 Feb 2011)

Ah I thought maybe you meant Profit and Loss (which wouldn't make sense). Or you'd mistyped P&O.

It would be interesting to know whether DFDS take foot passengers in July and August - ie whether there's an issue about limited numbers of seats/cabins, or an overall limit on the number of passengers. If there isn't then maybe there's some operational reason.


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## Domestique (19 Feb 2011)

I am sure I have seen a deal for two passengers in a car with a caravan for free. So nothing to do with deck space. 
We really wanted to do Denmark this year, but its off now till a later date. Sent an email but just got a snotty reply as above. Narks me how one group of road users can be excluded. 
Most likely we will end up flying to Denmark when we do go, out of spite


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## splitpin (8 Mar 2011)

Did anyone have any luck in sorting this problem? I've just been looking at LD Lines site to book a ferry from Ramsgate to Ostend in July, and the website is telling me that bicycles aren't allowed on that service either! I've just emailed their customer service to ask what their problem is and whether I could just pay a motorbike or car tariff. Though it might be helpful if I could quote another company's response to the same issue.

Thanks,

Mike


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## TheDoctor (8 Mar 2011)

TBH I'd steer clear of the Ramsgate-Ostend service. We used it last Easter, and it really is biased towards freight.
They're barely set up for cars IMHO, so I'd definitely avoid it on a bike. Shame, as Ostend is quite a nice place.


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## Dave Davenport (8 Mar 2011)

No response from dfds about the Denmark ferry, even though it was supposed to have been passed to their head office customer service team (aka the bin probably). We've decided to go Dover - Dunkirk then head off through Belgium into Germany and play it by ear. 

The return for two plus bikes is £40 all up, which is about 500 quid cheaper than the Harwich - Hook of Holland / Denmark - Harwich option. That's a lot of Trappist beer!


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## gurfle (17 Jul 2011)

Anybody been able to figure out if it is possible take a bike onto the Harwich-Esbjerg ferry at all this year?

A buddy and I were planning a brief stopover in England with bikes (mainly for one visit to a very good old friend), but if it is this difficult, expensive (or even impossible) to get to Denmark from there as these posts are making it out to be, we sadly will have to skip England (and friend) entirely.

Has anyone tried getting on as a "moterbike"?

Thanks, for any feedback on this issue,

Nick


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## PalmerSperry (17 Jul 2011)

gurfle said:


> Has anyone tried getting on as a "moterbike"?



I do know from experience that it's not necessary to enter the vehicle registration details in order to book onto DFDS (took a hire car on DFDS for a return trip very late in 2008). So I suppose you could always claim that you selected "motorbike" by accident? 

Alternatively I suppose it's a good argument for having a folding bike and a bag to stuff it into when you get to the ferry terminal?


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## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2011)

PalmerSperry said:


> I do know from experience that it's not necessary to enter the vehicle registration details in order to book onto DFDS (took a hire car on DFDS for a return trip very late in 2008). So I suppose you could always claim that you selected "motorbike" by accident?
> 
> Alternatively I suppose it's a good argument for having a folding bike and a bag to stuff it into when you get to the ferry terminal?



They won't let you book as a foot passenger in July / August. I e mailed them to ask if I could book (and pay) as a motorbike but never got a reply.


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## gurfle (19 Jul 2011)

Looks like bikes are allowed after all  There is a technical glitch with the booking system, but using the phone instead should work.

Here a decent answer I got within 24 hours of filling out their online query form:

[quote name=fiona@DFDS]
Good afternoon

Thank you for your email.

As we have changed to a new booking system on our Harwich to Esbjerg route we seem to be having some technical problems with booking push bikes online.

So that we can check availability and give you a price please contact us on 0871 522 9955 and we will be able to help. We will waiver the telephone booking fee so that we can match the online price for you.

With kind regards

Fiona Gardner

-----------------------------------------

Travel Sales
DFDS Seaways
International Passenger Terminal
North Shields
NE29 6EE
www.dfds.co.uk

T: 0871 522 9955
[/quote]


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## mcr (19 Jul 2011)

'push bikes'! Huh!


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## Domestique (20 Jul 2011)

Sorry to be so negative, but, that reply doesnt say bikes are now allowed. It says ring us and we will let you know  
I would love it it if it is the case that cyclists are now allowed on board during peak times, but will reserve my judgement just now.
I want to visit some relatives in Kiel and was looking forward to riding from Denmark, but I am almost certain I will end up going via Hoek v Holland and use the Dutch Flyer rail ticket deal up to Gronningen or somewhere in the north. Anyway all this is next year now as we have tickets to Hoek again this year.
Good luck with the booking and very interested to see if anyone can get booked. I am sure leaving it this late in the season there must be limited space now.


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## gurfle (21 Jul 2011)

Domestique said:


> Sorry to be so negative, but, that reply doesnt say bikes are now allowed. It says ring us and we will let you know
> I would love it it if it is the case that cyclists are now allowed onboard during peak times, but will reserve my judgement just now.



Your cautionary pessimism is certainly warranted. I got another response that not only confirms exactly what you say, but makes it quite clear that bikes are of no interest to DFDS - no doubt, as others have pointed out, because they can't squeeze enough profit out of them:

[quote name=Jayne Dryden]Good Afternoon

I have just checked on this situation with my supervisor and it seems that on certain sailings we are over capacity with vehicle spaces,therefore the bike spaces have beem reduced. This is the reason why there is a shortage of bike spaces. Therefore it is a matter of checking availability when the next bike space are there.


Regards

Jayne Dryden
[/quote]

At least they do respond to e-mail inquiries, and are making it quite clear that phone booking rather than online is what you need to do.

Nick


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## Dave Davenport (21 Jul 2011)

'therefore the bike spaces have been reduced' 

Yep, to ZERO!

I wouldn't mind so much if they were honest and just said yes you can take a bike but it's the same price as a motorbike.


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