# Transporting family, bikes and camping stuff



## KneesUp (16 Jun 2014)

Well it's nearly summer - time to cram things in to the car.

I'm just after a bit of input as to what you would do with the following list of equipment:

Citroen Xsara Picasso with a tow bar
A chuffing huge tent (fabric in its bag is the size of the torso of a very tall, very fat person and there are three bags of steel poles)
Two adult sized bikes (one with a stuck stem so I can't turn them sideways on to save space)
One 16" wheeled-bike
Camping paraphernalia - stove, tables, chairs - all that gubbins
Clothes, toys, shoes - all the other things people take on holdiday
A 5ft x 3ft trailer that needs new tyres (ones on look fine, but are c.20yrs old)
A roofbag (tent should just fit in it - will check later)
Roofbars made specifically for the car, but one of them has rusted and cannot be tightened up so will need new ones.
No bike carriers

How would you get everything on holiday? We have managed the bikes in the boot whilst going on holiday, but not with tent and camping stuff, so in theory if the tent fits the roof bag we could do it that way (albeit with quite a lot of weight up top - tent and poles is c.60kg) But that would mean buying new roof bars, and for about the same I could get new tyres for the trailer - although the trailer also needs a new numberplate (I've never actually used it - I bought it because it was a bargain - I've literally towed it 3 miles in total) There is no way we can fit the bikes and the camping stuff all in the car - last time we went camping I had to remove two seats as it was, and the only wheeled thing we took was a child's scooter.

So anyway, I'm bored at work thinking about holidays. So would you go for the trailer option or the roof bag option?


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## fossyant (16 Jun 2014)

Trailer ! Get it fixed up. Roof bars - try and sort out the rusted up bolt. Securing the bikes - you'll ideally need fork clamps, or do you plan to bodge a fit ?


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## tadpole (16 Jun 2014)

Trailer. simple to sort out, and easy to use. Pile it high and strap it down, towing is easy (reversing is not) I go camping for three weeks in august and take enough stuff for 9 adults. and kids three or four tents sleeping bags chairs cooking stuff and about 100lbs of fire wood, all fits in my 4 x 5 trailer.


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## KneesUp (16 Jun 2014)

Thanks all. The roof bars are Citroen's own ones because we have the posh-Picasso (as if there is such a thing!) with the glass roof and the aftermarket bars don't fit, apparently. I've tried them with penetrating oil but they won't budge - it's hard to get much torque though because as if making the nuts and bolts out of monkey metal wasn't genius enough, Citroen also made them with a pentagonal head, so you have to use their own badly made and very short tool (£4 each) to attempt to free them.

I can't see why normal aftermarket bars won't fit, although it's possible the sunroof won't open with them on (not a hardship, I think I've used it perhaps a dozen times) so I might go for some of them, but I'm not buying another set of specific Citroen bars that won't fit anything else (and will seize up again). I want to swap cars next year too, which is another reason not to buy more bars to fit this one.

I'm nervous of the trailer since I tried to reverse it. It is basically impossible because it's very short and you can't see it until it's already jack-knifed. But I suppose it's the most sensible option since we don't really need a bike rack - you can fit all three bikes and three people in the car so if we're going anywhere just for the day we do that.

So that's sorted, I think. Camping stuff and bulky stuff in the trailer. Bikes and clothes in the car. Or bikes in the trailer (no idea how to make them stay in - or even if 5ft is long enough, come to think of it) and soft stuff in the car.

Now, where to go ...


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## Crackle (16 Jun 2014)

Doesn't the Picaso have special fittings for a roofbar. Sits in the channel next to the door and the roofbar foot hooks in. Thule do an adaptor. In fact I may have some in the garage and some bars.


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## KneesUp (16 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> Doesn't the Picaso have special fittings for a roofbar. Sits in the channel next to the door and the roofbar foot hooks in. Thule do an adaptor. In fact I may have some in the garage and some bars.



It has little welded on bits the feet grip, yes. As far as I can tell our Picasso 'Exclusive' has exactly the same fittings any other Picasso, it just has the glass roof which, when it opens, stacks one piece of glass over the other. I presume it's the height of this that means that aftermarket ones are not recommended, although the genuine Citroen ones don't seem any taller. But if you keep the roof closed I'm sure any would fit.

I'm annoyed because when I took them off they were quite tight and hard to turn, and like an idiot I just put them in the shed and forgot all about them


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## KneesUp (16 Jun 2014)

It really is dull at work today (I'm waiting for tech support to get back to me and I've sort of run out of things to do) so I've had another think. Perhaps the bike would be better in the trailer along with other things you wouldn't want to hit your child in the event of an accident like camping chairs and the table, stove, camp kitchen and gas cannister.

So I could get one of these things from Halfords or somewhere cheaper or more independent:





and bolt it to the floor of the trailer (it's wooden) The bikes are too long to fit in with the wheels on, but would go with front wheels off. I could rig up something (threaded rod with nuts in the right places?) to stop the forks moving about.


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## tadpole (16 Jun 2014)

KneesUp said:


> . I could rig up something (threaded rod with nuts in the right places?) to stop the forks moving about.


 That's what i did, up front, so when not full of bikes you can still use the trailer for other stuff, and you can pack under the front forks with camping gear.


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## KneesUp (16 Jun 2014)

[QUOTE 3134990, member: 45"]Can't you fit roof bars onto the trailer? Some makes let you. Then you could stick the bikes on there and see it when reversing.

Or just unhitch the trailer and push it when you want to reverse. Lazy boy.[/QUOTE]
Definitely lazy 

It's an old wooden trailer - a properly plated one, but wooden nonetheless so not one of your modern ones with lots of accessories; it's from an era where if you wanted some special fitting you bought a load of 4 x 2 and some ironmongery 

And if I had roof bars that worked, I'd put them on the roof


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## Arjimlad (23 Jun 2014)

Only drawback with a trailer would be if you want to take the car on the ferry. We go to France every year and have use roof & rear mounted carriers for that reason. I'd prefer to use a trailer if possible to avoid putting so much load on the car (C4 Grand Picasso). 

BTW if anyone wants some, I have a set of old-style OEM Picasso roof bars in good condition but have lost the key.... need to get them sold !


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## KneesUp (23 Jun 2014)

How much do you want for the bars? I was just trying to work out ways to un-seize mine. I have got a key, though


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## KneesUp (23 Jun 2014)

With regard to the trailer - I was just discussing with her that does the packing as to whether we will need it. Last time we went camping we didn't take a table or chairs because we were camping next to our friends chalet and they had loads. Everything went in the car - just - but ideally I'd like to take all three back seats so stuff isn't rolling about the car all the time we're away - we left two in the front room last time. I'm just not sure putting the tent on the roof will free up enough space in the boot to add:

2 x adult bikes
1 x child's bike
1 x table
3 x chairs
1 x electric cool box

Might have to get the roof-bag out tonight to see if the tent will fit in it (still haven't tried - this might be academic!) and if there is enough room alongside it for 1 or 2 bike holders. Mind you that will be too heavy. Gah! Maybe tent poles and bedding in the roof bag ... That's the sound of the trailer calling, isn't it? We're staying in the UK so ferry cost isn't a problem.


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## shortone (23 Jun 2014)

We had the same dilema a year or so back, Grande espace at the time. No as much spare room as you would think.
We had a small mayfair/edie trailer 4x3,iirc. this was fine until we wanted to start taking bikes. 
In the the end we went down the new trailer route and gor a 6x4 gereral purpose trailer from pheonix trailers with caged high sides:
http://www.phoenixtrailer.co.uk/general.php,
Second hand small trailers always sell well at this time of year and when we were looking at buying a new one I struggled to find a good high sided second hand 6X4 for much less than we got a new one for.

We now have a Nissan X Trail and take the following camping:
3 Children. 2 Adults.
10 man tent with canopy.
5 bikes,
mini fridge we dont camp we glamp acording to the misses)
and everyting else you could ever need to go camping without having to squeeze anything in to the car.


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## KneesUp (23 Jun 2014)

shortone said:


> We had the same dilema a year or so back, Grande espace at the time. No as much spare room as you would think.
> We had a small mayfair/edie trailer 4x3,iirc. this was fine until we wanted to start taking bikes.
> 
> View attachment 48476



Nice - did the bear come with it 

Ours is not high sided, and is only 5 x3, but on the other hand I only paid £50 for it! I reckon I could fit most of the camping stuff in it leaving the bike free for non-camping holiday items and the bikes - Ah, it'll be fine ...


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## KneesUp (23 Jun 2014)

Well I've had a go at my Citroen-made roof bars for my Picasso.

I have a front bar that works - success. I'll chuck away the bolts with daft pentagon heads and replace them with stainless steel proper ones.

If it helps anyone else, the bar has a metal rectangle inside with a threaded hole in it. The rectangle has two tabs that slot through holes in the bar. What seems to happen is that water gets through these holes and drips onto the rectangular 'nut' which then rusts. So, for the sake of 4 postage stamp sized bits of stainless steel, the Citroen roof bars for the Xsara Picasso will eventually become useless. I'm going to clean mine up as best I can and then seal it with silicone - if I look after them they will hopefully last as long as the car which appears to be quite well made - unlike the bars.

The rear bar is still a problem. I've undone one side, but the rectangular 'nut' was rusted on so tightly that what I've actually done is rotated it out of the holes. This at least means I can get the 'foot' of the bar and by cutting some of the plastic of the foot off (the top part beyond the bolt is cosmetic - some of the plastic is structural though - be careful) I can slice the head of the bolt and get it out. Then it's a case of getting the bolt off the rectangular bit, cleaning up the rectangular bit and seeing if I can get it to secure back into the bar.

And then I have to sort out the other end. I can't turn that at all so once I've got a tiny cutting disc I'm going to go straight for chopping the head of it to get the foot off and then try and twist it all out.

Anyway - two things have occurred to me tonight - firstly OH can't tow because she passed her test after me so isn't automatically qualified, so although I'd drive anyway, and we've never swapped, it's nice to have the option to swap, so that might be another reason not to use the trailer. Secondly, if we don't take the trailer I can get a towbar mounted bike carrier which would give me roof for light and bulky stuff, car for camping stuff and tent and childs bike, and adult bikes on the rack. Excellent.

As I've said, normally we stick the bikes in the car for day trips, so I wouldn't use a towbar mounted rack very often - so bearing that in mind - what is wrong with a £15 bike carrier like this one? I'd pad the bars with something and obviously strap the bikes on to it.


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## KneesUp (24 Jun 2014)

1 am I got to bed last night. 1am. And my conclusion? My roof bars made by Citroen for Citroen are fecked because they have a stupid design that lets water drain onto the only moving part - which is made of mild steel and rusts solid. Genius, Citroen, genius.

Incidentally I think the reason after market bars don't fit is that the gap between the mounting point and the glass roof (which sits proud of the metal) is too narrow for the 'feet' of the after market ones.


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## w00hoo_kent (24 Jun 2014)

Not much to add, with the trailer, you may find it's easier to reverse with once it has some weight on it. Also sticking a flag in the back offside corner, so you can see what it is doing, is an option. Having said that I've always been useless at reversing a trailer so just unhitch and manhandle it. Works fine if it's packed right.


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## User482 (8 Jul 2014)

KneesUp said:


> Well it's nearly summer - time to cram things in to the car.
> 
> I'm just after a bit of input as to what you would do with the following list of equipment:
> 
> ...



We have a c-max - about the same size as your car - for camping & cycling we do the following:

Roofbars & box - takes all sleeping bags, mats & travelcot
Towbar mounted bike carrier - to take two adult bikes & one trailer
Remove middle rear seat and leave at home, to give more boot space.

That way we can (just) get in all our cycling & camping paraphernalia (including a mahoosive tent). 

Don't forget to pump more air in your tyres!


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## steveindenmark (17 Aug 2014)

I have just bought this trailer to carry our 2 bikes and we will probably sleep in it as well. I have installed cushioned floor and our bikes are fastened to the bike rack which goes on the back of the car but is strapped Inside the trailer. We can then use the rack on the back of the car when we get to our destination.

The trailer is made by Debon.











Steve


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