# 'Cyclists Dismount' sign at roadworks



## Smurfy (6 Nov 2013)

There's a short stretch of dual carriageway on my commute. It's urban but close to city centre, so it's a 30 limit (unless you're a taxi driver or a hot-hatch knobber). There's a cycle lane marked out, it's not very wide, but I suppose it might be better than nothing (it's been there as long as I've used the road).

Anyway, enough of the background info. Today the gas network people were digging up the right hand lane, which was coned off and occupied by workmen and a JCB among other machinery. Just before the roadworks was a red sign with 'Cyclists Dismount' in white letters. The roadworks were only ~50 yards long, and the cycle lane was unaffected (although it would mean that wide vehicles couldn't use the second lane when passing cyclists). My immediate reaction was 'Cheeky Sods', and I just carried on.

What do other people think of this?


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## Herbie (6 Nov 2013)

YellowTim said:


> There's a short stretch of dual carriageway on my commute. It's urban but close to city centre, so it's a 30 limit (unless you're a taxi driver or a hot-hatch knobber). There's a cycle lane marked out, it's not very wide, but I suppose it might be better than nothing (it's been there as long as I've used the road).
> 
> Anyway, enough of the background info. Today the gas network people were digging up the right hand lane, which was coned off and occupied by workmen and a JCB among other machinery. Just before the roadworks was a red sign with 'Cyclists Dismount' in white letters. The roadworks were only ~50 yards long, and the cycle lane was unaffected (although it would mean that wide vehicles couldn't use the second lane when passing cyclists). My immediate reaction was 'Cheeky Sods', and I just carried on.
> 
> What do other people think of this?


 

I probably would have done the same


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## buggi (6 Nov 2013)

cheeky sods

there was one near me like this. I ignored it too. You don't have to use the cycle facility and its only for those that do use it.


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## ianrauk (6 Nov 2013)

There's one of those signs on my commute at the moment. I and every other cyclist I see ignores it and carries on using the road.


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## Mile195 (7 Nov 2013)

I think it's probably just a*se covering. If you have an accident due to the lack of a cycle lane and try to sue the contractor, they can say that you were warned so it's your own fault, or something like that.

Only circular signs are order signs that are enforceable. Triangular signs are warnings. Anything else is merely a trip hazard!


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## Smurfy (7 Nov 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. I was a bit annoyed at the cheekiness of it, and the attempt to dodge responsibility for anything that may happen. I was tempted to stop and lay the sign flat on the grass, but people get arrested for such trivial things nowadays, I decided to just ignore it and carry on. As it happens, stopping and dismounting at that exact location would be a PITA. The sign was positioned just after a junction, and the pavement where you'd want to walk after dismounting is set well back from the road, up a short grassy bank. To dismount you'd either have to dodge cars trying to exit the junction, or drag your bike up a grassy bank. I guess a site safety assessor attended the site 1/2 hour after they set up this morning and decided a sign was required. Whoever it is obviously knows nothing about cycling, or they would've accepted the cyclists right to use that bit of road, and made a sign that said 'Cyclists Use Whole Lane, Motor Vehicles be Patient'.


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## Smurfy (7 Nov 2013)

Mile195 said:


> I think it's probably just a*se covering. If you have an accident due to the lack of a cycle lane and try to sue the contractor, they can say that you were warned so it's your own fault, or something like that.
> 
> Only circular signs are order signs that are enforceable. Triangular signs are warnings. Anything else is merely a trip hazard!


Is the octagonal STOP sign the only exception to the shape pattern?


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## deptfordmarmoset (7 Nov 2013)

The appropriate sign is not ''Cyclists Dismount,'' it's ''Narrow Lane - Do Not Overtake Cyclists.'' (This may not be the exact wording but it's very close.) I have seen it but very rarely.


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## Andy_R (7 Nov 2013)

YellowTim said:


> Is the octagonal STOP sign the only exception to the shape pattern?


And the upside down triangle......


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## Smurfy (7 Nov 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> The appropriate sign is not ''Cyclists Dismount,'' it's ''Narrow Lane - Do Not Overtake Cyclists.'' (This may not be the exact wording but it's very close.) I have seen it but very rarely.


Well said!  I'm tempted to write to them and ask them what their policy is, and how they justify it.


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## Mile195 (7 Nov 2013)

YellowTim said:


> Is the octagonal STOP sign the only exception to the shape pattern?


Yes. I think because it's the only sign that is the same internationally.


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## Mile195 (7 Nov 2013)

Andy_R said:


> And the upside down triangle......


Triangle's a triangle, whether it's upside down or not! And it is kind of a warning. i.e, if you don't look to see what's coming something may very well plough into the side of you!


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## Andy_R (7 Nov 2013)

Mile195 said:


> Triangle's a triangle, whether it's upside down or not! And it is kind of a warning. i.e, if you don't look to see what's coming something may very well plough into the side of you!


Nope...it's ordering you to "give way to traffic on the major road " (text direct from HC)


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## Mile195 (7 Nov 2013)

Andy_R said:


> Nope...it's ordering you to "give way to traffic on the major road " (text direct from HC)


Makes no odds round my way. They assume everyone in London is too stupid to read roadsigns so they just put traffic lights at every single junction instead, regardless of whether or not they're really needed...


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## snorri (7 Nov 2013)

YellowTim said:


> What do other people think of this?


 
Cycle on as if there was no sign, but write to the roads authority telling them of your objection to such signs and pointing out the failure of their contractor to provide a safe passage for cyclists (and pedestrians?) through the roadworks.
It really is time all these Cyclists Dismount signs were consigned to the scrap metal skip.


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## Shut Up Legs (7 Nov 2013)

snorri said:


> Cycle on as if there was no sign, but write to the roads authority telling them of your objection to such signs and pointing out the failure of their contractor to provide a safe passage for cyclists (and pedestrians?) through the roadworks.
> It really is time all these Cyclists Dismount signs were consigned to the scrap metal skip.


Or we force them to be more evenhanded, and install "Motorists dismount" signs.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (15 Nov 2013)

User said:


> Such signs have no legal force and are merely advisory. You can, of course, ignore such advice.


Here's one though that would be interesting to do so...
http://goo.gl/maps/Qt6FL

Since the google car visited in May '12, the roadworks have widened, leaving a lane *just* wide enough for an HGV, in one long stretch on the left, with heavy plant and containers/portakabins so no ducking in to the coned area

Going uphill, it is not the steepest but the "average" cyclist would have trouble making it through in the traffic light cycle.

The advisory sign says "cyclists dismount and use footpath" however I doubt that if I were on the trike, that I could actually get it through the narrow footpath, especially where other signs, fances etc encroach upon it - and I'd certainly struggle to dismount and push the trike. No idea how I would cope with this if I encountered it on the trike as there is no alternative suitable road - to avoid it would mean an approx 1:3 hill either up and over the top, or back up after going through the valley below.

Luckily this is only on my "scenic detour" on the way home but it would seem that the only way through would be to stay on the road and meet traffic head on when the lights change


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## Davidc (15 Nov 2013)

I agree entirely with YT's action and opinion on this.

A group of cyclists in Taunton a while back dismounted and walked down the middle of the road to demonstrate the stupidity of a sign like this. If I'd known in advance I'd have joined them.


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## winjim (15 Nov 2013)

YellowTim said:


> Is the octagonal STOP sign the only exception to the shape pattern?





Mile195 said:


> Yes. I think because it's the only sign that is the same internationally.



Octagonal stop sign is still apparent even when obscured by snow etc.


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## robjh (15 Nov 2013)

Every one of those signs I've ever seen is untrue, they don't.


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## simon.r (15 Nov 2013)

On the positive side, these signs are an indication that road-workers are beginning to acknowledge the existence of cyclists. 

A few years ago no-one would have even considered anything except motorised traffic and pedestrians. Pressure to acknowledge the needs of cyclists / horse riders / buggy pushers / mobility scooters etc. at roadworks has increased dramatically over the last few years. I agree that the vast majority of 'Cyclists Dismount' signs are ridiculous, but it does indicate the very beginnings of a thought process that considers our needs.


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## srw (15 Nov 2013)

Or, on Tooley Street near London Bridge - "Narrow lanes. Do not overtake cyclists." The signs are still there even though the roadworks have finished.


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## Ganymede (15 Nov 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> The appropriate sign is not ''Cyclists Dismount,'' it's ''Narrow Lane - Do Not Overtake Cyclists.'' (This may not be the exact wording but it's very close.) I have seen it but very rarely.



There's one on Baylis Road near Lambeth Tube. The building works have covered the pavement and re-assigned the cycle path for pedestrians. Orange barriers all round. And the "Narrow Lane - Do Not Overtake Cyclists" sign. I was pleased to see it, though I only walk round that area as it happens.


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## srw (15 Nov 2013)

srw said:


> Or, on Tooley Street near London Bridge - "Narrow lanes. Do not overtake cyclists." The signs are still there even though the roadworks have finished.


TMN to Deptfordmarmoset.


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## deptfordmarmoset (15 Nov 2013)

srw said:


> TMN to Deptfordmarmoset.


I'm still in TMN debt though. As it happens the first I ever saw was in Tooley Street.


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## ComedyPilot (19 Nov 2013)

I'll dismount and walk when drivers are told to get out and push.


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## simon.r (21 Nov 2013)

Came across the new version of the 'Red Book' today, which is the on-site 'bible' for road workers: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/243997/safety-at-streetworks-tagged.pdf

Page 35 is the relevant bit for those interested.


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