# General e-bike questions, comments, reviews and interesting stories.



## carpiste (6 Oct 2021)

I have opened this thread in the hope that it can resolve the problem of questions being asked and threads created for every single e-bike, piece of kit, route planner and general info.
I am happy if a mod, or in fact anyone objects to this solution. I have created it in the hope of bringing some calm back to this section.


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## HMS_Dave (6 Oct 2021)

I think it is a grand idea.


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## CXRAndy (7 Oct 2021)




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## carpiste (7 Oct 2021)

Thinking about your ebike and its plus points, limitations, pros and cons what would you score it?
No need to go into everything just a score out of 10 I think.
Raleigh Motus 2021 : 9/10


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## jowwy (7 Oct 2021)

i have 2 ebikes - but both are the exact same model, but different battery sizes

Cube Acid 500 -
*Pro's, *cheap, big battery, good motor, good for commuting, can fit rack and guards
*Con's, *cheap, Heavy, not the best offroad, low on torque, poor forks

Cube Acid 400 - as above with smaller battery

Reason for buying the same model, was having two batteries, just in case i fancy going further affield and making sure i have enough juice by putting the 2nd battery in a rack bag.

I have one set-up purely for road use, the 500 has carbon MTB forks and 2" slick tyres and the 400 is set-up as a rough more of a canal, rough road sort of use, with better forks, as the canals here in wales have to be kept as rural as possible, so not all tarmac'd or red gravelled.

score i would say 7.5/10


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## Drago (7 Oct 2021)

Carrera Subway E - 'Mk1' version.

An anniversay gift from Mrs D, so I didn't get a say in it.

*Pros:*

Reasonably light for a cheapo, around 18kg ready to ride. Thats not a featherweight, but very competitive for that end of the market.

Rides well, rolls well, and a very sure footed. 

Tektro hydro brakes. Not sexy, but work very well.

Probably the 'best' ebike for a grand, or £1100 for the slightly updated version 2.

Most of the reliability gremlins of earlier Carrera models has been sorted.

Looks reasonably tidy and understated. Some similarly priced rivals go OTT in their efforts to look eye catching and end up looking a bit nafftacky.

Excellent torque. Claimed to be 60NM (I take the with a pinch of salt - thats verging on small car territory) through the geared gub motor. Whatever the real number it it handles my 19 stone bulk very well.

*Cons:*

Fairly basic spec - something has to give for the price. No mudguards, integral lights, squidge forks, etc. On the plus side thar does keep the price down, and what is there is well thought out.

Battery capacity isn't huge. If you're doing serious miles in one hit its not for you, although ive personally not found it limiting,

The torque sensor is in a vulnerable position and easily damaged. Once youre aware of it its not a problem, but a lot of people are ham fisted and somehow manage to get through them in quick order.


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## fossyant (7 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> The torque sensor is in a vulnerable position and easily damaged. Once youre aware of it its not a problem, but a lot of people are ham fisted and somehow manage to get through them in quick order.



Where is it located, as my 'old man' is considering one 'still'. I'll be chief mechanic though, so I'll make him aware.


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## Drago (7 Oct 2021)

Under the bottom bracket, rear of the chanset. I think people tend to mash them dragging the bikes over doorsteps or high kerbs., because in sensible, normal use thats pretty tucked out the way.


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## carpiste (12 Oct 2021)

When I bought my Raleigh Motus it said it could go up to 60 miles on a single charge. I have to say I was dubious, to say the least and decided it could do that if the rider was an athlete and around the 10 stone mark.... not some 61 year old fatty!
So, since 1st May I`ve been out most days and started out doing around 15-20 miles and in the process lost 3 stone in weight! I rarely use anything other than the eco setting whereas I was using tour or even sports mode previously.
Today I did 32 miles on a relatively flat route and only used 2 of the 5 bars. So it appears that the figures for mileage are much nearer to reality than I ever imagined!
One happy old geezer here


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## ebikeerwidnes (12 Oct 2021)

carpiste said:


> When I bought my Raleigh Motus it said it could go up to 60 miles on a single charge. I have to say I was dubious, to say the least and decided it could do that if the rider was an athlete and around the 10 stone mark.... not some 61 year old fatty!
> So, since 1st May I`ve been out most days and started out doing around 15-20 miles and in the process lost 3 stone in weight! I rarely use anything other than the eco setting whereas I was using tour or even sports mode previously.
> Today I did 32 miles on a relatively flat route and only used 2 of the 5 bars. So it appears that the figures for mileage are much nearer to reality than I ever imagined!
> One happy old geezer here


My Motus has the smallest battery - has done 6000 miles in the last 2 years but can just about do 50 miles on one charge
but that is mostly on canal paths so a lot of slowing down and accelerating - it'll do more on roads where the speed is constant and close to the cutoff limit
Also does less in winter - presumably due to the battery getting cold


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## Biker man (18 Oct 2021)

My ebike has three power settings the echo was quoted at 201 km roughly the what are the other two are I don't know think full power has given me 38 miles with a lot of hills so what the middle settings would give me I have no idea.


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## ebikeerwidnes (18 Oct 2021)

I think the range depends a lot on how you pedal.
My wife's folder has a totally different system to my Raleigh with its Bosch
The folder has a Bafang motor and the control system seems a lot simpler
Top assist seems to give full power all the time 
middle assist and lower differ in that they start of with a lot of assist at low speed but then reduce the assist power as the speed increases - the lowest level just starts reducing sooner and quicker
the 'torque' sensor is also quite basic - not as simplistic as my old Powacycle where you could just slowly spin the pedals and it would take you up to 15mph - but, especially at max assist - you can allow the motor to do mostr of the work by turning the pedals with just a small amount of power from you.

The Bosch system appears far closer to true assist - i.e. it looks at the power you are supplying through the pedals and adds a bit to it - the higher the assist level the more it helps


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## theboxers (19 Oct 2021)

Cube Agree Hybrid C:62 SL disc 2018






Is a pedal assist e-bike. No pedal, no assist. 

It's a road race bike, drop bars and geometry. Based artound the Fazua Sytem with a Bottom Bracket gearbox driving the cranks and detatchable motor/battery (250Wh) unit (weighing about 3.5kg). Relatively light, @ the time for e-bikes, @14kg or so. Mine, size 56, with pedals, cages, pump, saddle bag, top-tube bag and spares comes in @15kg (weighed for trip to Spain by air). Can be ridden as a 'normal' road bike without the motor/battery unit, a cover is available.

3 levels of assist, Off; Breeze; River; Rocket accessed by the bar monted controller (a walk assist mode is also available). You can feel them kick in below the limit and cut out @25kmh relatively softly. If you can ride @ around the cutoff you will feel it coming in and out softly. Max torque is around 50-55Nm

For a road bike it feels quite sluggish when climbing, you feel the added weight even with assist, my GT Grade AL X (11kg) feels quicker up hills but isn't. But on flattish terain it just rides like a normal bike, to me, above or below the cutoff.

It is deceptively quiet at low power levels, I tend to ride at the lowest setting I can possibly get away with for the terrain I'm riding (usually off up to 6 or 7%). Sometimes I forget to turn it off and don't realise.

The range, for me @113kg, is about 50km for the Breeze level (lowest assistance setting) with about 525m of climbing for about 50% battery usage, I can ride above the cutoff on flattish roads so don't get assist.

Being based on a Road Race bike there is no provision for mudguards or racks.

The only issue I had is the price. It was expensive, to me, even with the end of year sale price. But it has been worth the money I feel. It has got me out more often and further than I probably would have had I been riding a non e-bike, my brothers will not allow me to use it on our rides .

It just works. Thats what I like about it, no issues, that weren't self inflicted .

ETA

Forgot my score. 

9/10. For me it is perfect for what I do. If I was commuting I'd be looking at a more Hybrid/Touring/Mountain bike type e-bike.


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## Stul (19 Oct 2021)

Raleigh Centros....9/10. Mainly used in ECO mode and achieves around 90 miles max range. Love the belt drive and hub gears, rolls well but is "heavy", (I guess they all are!). Just wish I could find a comfy saddle!


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## welsh dragon (19 Oct 2021)

I have a whisper 806 torque folder. It's 6 years old now and I am still using the original battery. I bought a second battery for it but its died a terrible death. I get about 30 miles from my battery. I'd like to buy a bigger capacity battery for it. Maybe next year. 8/10 for mine. 

I would love to have a Van Moof Ebike. I do like the looks of them.


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## classic33 (19 Oct 2021)

I want one of these...





A Velove Armadillo, trailer optional.


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## carpiste (19 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> I want one of these...
> View attachment 614303
> 
> A Velove Armadillo, trailer optional.


That Hermes battery is a bit big though


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## classic33 (19 Oct 2021)

carpiste said:


> That Hermes battery is a bit big though


That's the optional trailer. DHL have started a trial of them in the UK.


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## Drago (20 Oct 2021)

A Herpes Armadildo. I can't see that catching on


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## classic33 (2 Nov 2021)

carpiste said:


> That Hermes battery is a bit big though


Think of the range & speed it'd give.


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## CXRAndy (3 Nov 2021)

Just wired in my SuperNova M99 headlight. What a super light for an ebike, wide spread, sharp cut off and high beam feature. Its quite low power with daylight running at 7 Watts and 26 Watts full beam. 

I knocked up a little relay to drive from battery via fuse and let the original lamp circuit power the relay coil.


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## carpiste (5 Dec 2021)

I was out for a ride today and stopped for a quick coffee. As I was standing there I was approached by a couple who were very interested in the Motus. Lots of questions, lots of admiring looks and as I went to leave the guy rushes over, thanks me, and says his wife has agreed to buy him a new e-bike for Christmas! How cool was that?


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## Biker man (5 Dec 2021)

carpiste said:


> I was out for a ride today and stopped for a quick coffee. As I was standing there I was approached by a couple who were very interested in the Motus. Lots of questions, lots of admiring looks and as I went to leave the guy rushes over, thanks me, and says his wife has agreed to buy him a new e-bike for Christmas! How cool was that?


Thought he would like a better bike than a Motus .


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## Drago (5 Dec 2021)

Biker man said:


> Thought he would like a better bike than a Motus .


I bet Mrs Bicker Man just loves how grateful you are for your presents.


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## Biker man (6 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> I bet Mrs Bicker Man just loves how grateful you are for your presents.


Very grateful thank you.


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## TheCheapBikeMan (30 Dec 2021)

Some great suggestions on this thread for e-bike models. I was on a tight budget so bought a Btwin 900e. The heavy battery at the back means it falls over a lot. The "full suspension" gets loose in the middle part of the frame so the tension wheel needs tightening often. However, it's fallen over so many times and still works surprisingly fine =)


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## CXRAndy (2 Feb 2022)

Mate of mine just updated his 2017 Bosch powered Emtb. He fitted a larger chainring and plug and play controller. He's delighted the way it rides now. I must say its super slick operation and manageable cadence with a bigger chainring


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Feb 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Mate of mine just updated his 2017 Bosch powered Emtb. He fitted a larger chainring and plug and play controller. He's delighted the way it rides now. I must say its super slick operation and manageable cadence with a bigger chainring


I was under the impression that Bosch ebike stuff was locked down so only a dealer could mess with the controller even in the smallest way???

or is this a recent thing and 2017 models are less locked down??


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## CXRAndy (3 Feb 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I was under the impression that Bosch ebike stuff was locked down so only a dealer could mess with the controller even in the smallest way???
> 
> or is this a recent thing and 2017 models are less locked down??


Not sure, he said that all motors can be modified from where he got his parts in Germany. I rode it, for half a mile, it was super smooth compared to my Bafang. I don't know what settings he had but it just kept picking up pace the faster I pedalled. He was more pleased about the larger chainring, his original was something like 15t-absolutely tiny He fitted a 22t


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## jowwy (3 Feb 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I was under the impression that Bosch ebike stuff was locked down so only a dealer could mess with the controller even in the smallest way???
> 
> or is this a recent thing and 2017 models are less locked down??


the motor is locked down, but you can still change the controllers and chain rings...........you just cant override the speed control or do updates yourself

2017 models you can still fit the speed unlocker adaptors, just not on the newer models


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Feb 2022)

I don't know about other people - but I have had 3 modern ebikes - I don't really count the old pre2016 one I had several years ago - and I have found the gearing is a bit strange
I have reached nearly 30 mph and still not used 7th gear 
given that I use basic level ebikes which are otherwise designed for commuting and general bimbling about rather than the lycra brigade - think comfy saddle and almost dutch style bars
so why put on gears that would only be useful for a properly fit person - and that person would not need an ebike and, in any case, that person would be way over the cut off speed anyway!


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## CXRAndy (3 Feb 2022)

jowwy said:


> 2017 models you can still fit the speed unlocker adaptors, just not on the newer models


I've just done a Google search, even the latest version of Bosch and others you can fit override devices. Sometimes they trigger limp mode, but invariably don't. So Bosch's attempt to stop modifications hasn't worked. 

With the likes of Van-Moof advertising variable speed systems on their bikes, it wont be long before this becomes the norm. 

I read even though Van-Moof hasn't started production yet they have over 10000 pre orders


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## jowwy (3 Feb 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I've just done a Google search, even the latest version of Bosch and others you can fit override devices. Sometimes they trigger limp mode, but invariably don't. So Bosch's attempt to stop modifications hasn't worked.
> 
> With the likes of Van-Moof advertising variable speed systems on their bikes, it wont be long before this becomes the norm.
> 
> I read even though Van-Moof hasn't started production yet they have over 10000 pre orders


but they would still be illegal to ride in the UK......

This is what Bosch say about their protection mode

"Protecting the system​The software of the Bosch eBike systems can detect whether the pedelec has been tuned by means of a sensor while riding. It then switches to emergency mode. Consequence: an error code in the display indicates manipulation and support is reduced. The eBiker can restore the original riding settings by riding the pedelec for around 90 minutes. As soon as the system returns to normal mode, however, the manipulation check will be repeated. After the third time, limp home mode can only be deactivated by a specialist dealer using the Bosch DiagnosticTool.
Thus, this measure is yet another way in which Bosch is responding to a requirement included in current European standard (EN 15194: 2017) for electric motor-supported bicycles. This increases protection for both the pedelec and the rider. After all, improper use of the system usually reduces the service life and eBikers risk damaging the drive unit and the bike itself. The safety of a tuned eBike can no longer be guaranteed: components and the bike itself are exposed to unforeseen stresses - and the consequences are difficult to predict.."


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Feb 2022)

jowwy said:


> but they would still be illegal to ride in the UK......
> 
> This is what Bosch say about their protection mode
> 
> ...


From what I have read on other forums - it can detect some attempt to bypass the installed system but clearly not every device
However, every software upgrade has the potential to introduce new 'protection' mechanisms so a device that works today might not tomorrow
But, as the software can only be updated by a dealer - you can get round these rolling upgrades by just never updating it! 

I do have to be rather suspicious that this is all more to do with protecting their revenue stream than making the bikes last longer and be safer for the rider!
After all - if other ebikes can be 're-programmed' without needed an authorised dealer to do it - then Bosch are clearly not just sticking to the law - as they imply - otherwise all the other ebikes would be illegal.
Personally I wouldn;t have bought a Bosch ebike system - but I ended up with it by an unusual series of events - having said which I think it is great and I would not try to overide the speed cutoff anyway


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## jowwy (3 Feb 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> From what I have read on other forums - it can detect some attempt to bypass the installed system but clearly not every device
> However, every software upgrade has the potential to introduce new 'protection' mechanisms so a device that works today might not tomorrow
> But, as the software can only be updated by a dealer - you can get round these rolling upgrades by just never updating it!
> 
> ...



All other ebikes may not need authorised dealers to upgrade software, but their software upgrades would still need to comply with the law. 

I got two bosch ebikes, both have had software updates in the past 18mths at £20 a shot to the dealer, not to bosch. I have no issue with that, as they can ensure i get the right updates and dont brick my machine.


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Feb 2022)

jowwy said:


> All other ebikes may not need authorised dealers to upgrade software, but their software upgrades would still need to comply with the law.
> 
> I got two bosch ebikes, both have had software updates in the past 18mths at £20 a shot to the dealer, not to bosch. I have no issue with that, as they can ensure i get the right updates and dont brick my machine.


My dealer does the updates for free - but I am paying him to 'service' the bike anyway about once a year - and I do tend to break something most years so he makes enough money from me one way or another!


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## Mart44 (9 Feb 2022)

My e-bike is a 2017 Scott E-Silence with a Brose motor. It had a fault with battery charging when I first got it in 2018 but a firmware update cured that. Since then it has been very good. I haven't kept a record of mileage but is used most days of the week for local getting about. It is still running well but I suppose it's about time I took it back to where I bought it from (local bike shop) for a service and and any updates.


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