# Tell me about Recumbents...



## yenrod (7 May 2008)

Ive seen one maybe two in my time and they are great to see something I'm very optimistic impressed by  very different but they are seen as being a niche in cycling thats even more far out than cycling and cyclings far out, enough, as we all know ! unfairly though.

But what id like to know is;

What it was like to transfer from cycle to Recumbent and what made you take up Recumbent riding 

Do you see it as _totally_ different to cycling an 'Upright' to the point of being a totally different discipline / sport - activity :?: Or just another form of _cycling_ :?:

Whats the reaction from cars drivers etc... ? AND from other cyclists...:?:


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## mickle (7 May 2008)

I haven't ridden a recumbent in anger for @ least 20 years but some things are timeless and fundamental.
Drivers give you more space,
Falling off is less of an issue because you travel feet first rather than head first so falling off is less traumatic.

Oh and riding recumbent is faster (due to the aerodynamics of the riding position) and more comfortable.


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## Rhythm Thief (8 May 2008)

I enjoyed my Ryan Vanguard. The thing I liked most about it was the attention it got and the fact that it was so comfortable. (I once fell asleep on it leaning against a telegraph pole on my way home from a night shift!)
Actually, I'm just off to ebay to see what's for sale - I quite fancy another recumbent.


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## bonj2 (8 May 2008)

* they take of bit of time to master the balance but once you have it's apparently ok
* they're expensive, being the prohibiting factor why I haven't got one
* other than that they're apparently good, especially downhill


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## squeaker (8 May 2008)

*Where to start?*



yenrod said:


> What it was like to transfer from cycle to Recumbent


Well, diamond framed (DF) bike to recumbent trike was trivial Transition to recumbent bike took longer: ~1hr (on grass then quiet park) to be able to ride in reasonably relaxed fashion, then ~500 miles before it felt 'natural'. Upright DF bikes now feel very odd....



yenrod said:


> and what made you take up Recumbent riding


DF riding for any distance in a reasonably aerodynamically efficient position puts too much load on my wrists for their comfort, also my lower back and neck do not appreciate the necessary contortions. Recumbent riding keeps my back and neck in a comfortable position, and there's zero load on my arms.



yenrod said:


> Do you see it as _totally_ different to cycling an 'Upright' to the point of being a totally different discipline / sport - activity :?: Or just another form of _cycling_ :?:


It is cycling. The fact that the UCI locked the sport of cycle racing into DF frames in 1934 (and has effectively stamped on many innovations since) should not lock your mind to other possibilities too! I just see my recumbent as a more efficient and comfortable way of cycling. 



yenrod said:


> Whats the reaction from cars drivers etc... ? AND from other cyclists...:?:


The WTF factor means that car drivers generally register your presence: youths generally get excited and shout, sensible drivers give you more room, kids think it's cool and want one. (Horses tend not to like them though.) Cyclist are generally intrigued, but some roadies just want to get away from you, especially on hills - the recumbent's achilles heel (higher weight - my tourer is 17kg without luggage etc. - and slightly less efficient use of body mechanics) as they know that they will have to work extra hard downhill and on the flat to keep up.
Don't just take my word for it, though - have a browse here.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (8 May 2008)

Yenners, I congratulate you on starting an interesting thread. I've been wondering recently about bents too, and you seem to have asked all the right questions. Chapeau, Sir.


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## byegad (8 May 2008)

They are the new Jerusalem no less. 

Seriously the advantages out weigh the disadvantages ten to one. 
They do climb slower, how much slower is down to the engine and some with engines they climb very well indeed. I have been riding first a recumbent bike (from October 2005 until banned from all two wheel vehicles due to balance problems in January this year) and a recumbent trike from May last year. My trip average speeds are the same on the trike as on my now redundent DFs, the 'bent bike was faster. 
My only regret?
I should have bought one 20 years ago!


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## dodgy (8 May 2008)

Quite a few of my routes involve having to negotiate those barrier things they put on the NCN (to deter motorcycles). Do they present much of a problem to 'bents?

Dave.


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## andharwheel (8 May 2008)

Depends on the barriers. I can get through most barriers with the trike up here. Some should just removed, as you cant get a wheelchair through.


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## BentMikey (9 May 2008)

No, I'm not telling.


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## byegad (9 May 2008)

I get through most in one go with a QNT+Streamer Fairing. Now and again I need to back up a bit (a sort of 3 point turn effect). As andharwheel says a lot of the barriers are wheelchair friendly. I take them flat out if I can see beyond.


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## squeaker (9 May 2008)

*What type of 'bent?*



dodgy said:


> Quite a few of my routes involve having to negotiate those barrier things they put on the NCN (to deter motorcycles). Do they present much of a problem to 'bents?


Depends on what type of 'bent, really. As they are free of the UCI's straitjacket and associated marketing influences, there are a wide range of designs available, some of which have better low speed handling than others for wiggling through barriers at low speeds. (Remember that you can't use your body weight much to steer on a 'bent bike: one of the reasons that they are different to ride.)


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## Andy in Sig (9 May 2008)

One great advantage is that you do away with that triangle of muscular tension on a DF (neck, arms, handlebars). Also your head is in an absolutely normal, relaxed position. They are also 3,057 times more comfortable than DFs and as a result you end up doing more cycling simply because it is more pleasurable. I would also say that USS is a must - although this is personal preference - as OSS just seems to defeat the object IMHO.


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## dodgy (9 May 2008)

Sorry, haven't a clue what you're on about  What's USS and OSS?

Dave.


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## nilling (9 May 2008)

*The Gadget Show on Five (12/5) 8pm (i think)*

In the trailer for next Mon show they are doing a head-to-head with "top of the range" road bike vs. recumbent. It flashed on the screen so could not make out the make or model. Don't expect an in-depth review here, but Suzy Perry in lycra has got to be worth a watch


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## yenrod (9 May 2008)

squeaker said:


> Well, diamond framed (DF) bike to recumbent trike was trivial Transition to recumbent bike took longer: ~1hr (on grass then quiet park) to be able to ride in reasonably relaxed fashion, then ~500 miles before it felt 'natural'. Upright DF bikes now feel very odd....
> 
> DF riding for any distance in a reasonably aerodynamically efficient position puts too much load on my wrists for their comfort, also my lower back and neck do not appreciate the necessary contortions. Recumbent riding keeps my back and neck in a comfortable position, and there's zero load on my arms.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the answers !

~ i ride a roady and I reckon they (recumbents) are great; i can only think of 1 time when i've seen one and was floored: they are REALLY striking to see and look pretty good fun a real sit on your arse vibe yet with a fitness aspect !

I look forward to when I see another...!


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## xpc316e (9 May 2008)

USS is under seat steering and OSS is above seat steering, usually with a longer handlebar creating a tiller effect.

I write as someone who is just learning to ride his recumbent; it is a totally different animal to ride as balance is done by steering and not through shift of body weight. It did take me a little while and the key factor was remembering to have a very relaxed grip on the bars. Mine is a LWB with USS and I find tight corners to be something of an issue at present - more practice is needed.

People react very positively to them; do not buy a 'bent if you don't like talking to total strangers!


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## BentMikey (9 May 2008)

To be honest though, balance isn't done by shifting body weight on an upright either, it's done through steering too. It's just a bit odd not being able to move your body as you expect when you first start.


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## tdr1nka (9 May 2008)

Under Seat Steering / Over Seat Steering.

With USS you look like you are piloting a small spaceship.
With OSS you look a bit like you're pushing a small shopping trolly or rudimentary jet ski.

I must point out that I have only ridden with under seat steering on a trike so I can't comment fully on the technical only the esthetic.


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## Night Train (9 May 2008)

I am very keen on getting one and can't see any reasons why not (other then cost).

The first one I ever saw on the road was a yellow Kingcycle on my commute through London about 10 years ago.

I also remember seeing the Prone Low-Profile being driven by designer Tim Elsdale around Hyde Park Corner. Very impressive.


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## Valiant (10 May 2008)

I brought a trike specifically to tow the sound system, people told me it'd be much easier. And in a sense it is. It can tow extremely well. And comfort wise it's sublime, going from diamond frame to a recumbent was hard work and still is I find. I'm still trying to get used to spinning and I think that I'm still trying to get my setup perfect. I found it difficult at first and after almost 500 miles I still find my legs ache if I cycle non stop, I'm having to spin spin spin rest etc even without anything in tow. I'm getting better though.

In terms of safety it's great, people see you and they notice you. People smile and grin at you, they ask questions like is it as fun as it looks, how much, is it fast. On the road you get loads of room, usually cabs refuse to overtake and sit behind, even when I pull aside to let cars past in the city they slow down and wave me on. Almost feels like your royalty lol.

The only down side is the constant questions, which I don't mind, it's people asking if they can have a go especially after a few drinks. I refuse and well feel bad for it.


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## tdr1nka (10 May 2008)

I get local yoof gagging to have a go on the trike and have to politely say no as it has taken me a while to get it set up to my 6'2" frame and the kids are invariably around 5'.

I can vouch for the WTF factor and drivers giving so much more room and respect than I ever get on the upwrong.

The worst reaction was someone shouting, 'get a proper bike' to which I replied I have one of those as well!


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## Night Train (10 May 2008)

I really like the Aerorider. Video here.

It looks like really good fun as a driver.


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## Riding in Circles (13 May 2008)

I started riding bents in Germany 20 years ago but switched to trikes when I stuffed my knee ten years ago, 5 years ago I brought the first Catrike to the U.K. and became the dealer, I love trikes and would not go back to diamond frame now, I still ride bent two wheelers from time to time and have a folder upwrong for convenience but my miles are done on trike.


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## CopperBrompton (14 May 2008)

byegad said:


> They do climb slower, how much slower is down to the engine and some with engines they climb very well indeed.


Hmmm - I seem to have bought my engine from the wrong supplier ...

As to the rest, I echo what others have said: it's night-and-day in terms of comfort, significantly safer due to the large clearances you're given by traffic, kids & youths both think it's cool, and you should be prepared to answer the Three Standard Questions[1] at every traffic light.

Ben

[1] Yes, it's very comfortable. Yes, it's fast. Yes, it's expensive.


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## NickM (16 May 2008)

bonj said:


> * they're expensive, being the prohibiting factor why I haven't got one


Not necessarily - a Speed Ross/Orbit Crystal (same bike, different names) will go for about £350-400 on eBay depending on condition, and is a good starter recumbent.

I tried a recumbent (a Kingcycle, at first) because neck and shoulder pain threatened to end my cycling. I became a keen recumbent rider because _it is great fun_, as well as solving my discomfort problems. I only ride an upright for commuting in heavy traffic now - always a recumbent for pleasure riding.

There are lots of different kinds of recumbents - their designs are not as settled (stagnant?) as those of uprights. Most are heavier than equivalent uprights (i.e. racing recumbent vs. racing upright, touring vs. touring), simply because a seat weighs more than a saddle and two-and-a-half chains more than one. For that reason alone, yes, they are usually slower uphill; but they are faster than their upright peers downhill and into a headwind, so the swings and roundabouts come out pretty even. And that's without adding streamlining, with which recumbents start to leave conventional machines behind.


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## NickM (16 May 2008)

squeaker said:


> ...Don't just take my word for it, though - have a browse here.


And here! for a UK-centric view


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## NickM (16 May 2008)

Night Train said:


> The first one I ever saw on the road was a yellow Kingcycle on my commute through London about 10 years ago...


Kingcycles RULE!! I liked my first one so much I got a second 

However... they use obsolescent wheel sizes for which decent tyres are impossible to find. There's a way round this, but it entails getting a framebuilder involved, so it's a bit of a project... A better first recumbent might be a Speed Ross/Orbit Crystal - about £350-400 on t'Bay, and they come up every few months.


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## Night Train (17 May 2008)

Well I had a go on a Greenspeed and an ICE Trice today. The Greenspeed was set too long for me to really have a proper go though I did manage to spin the rear wheel trying to accelerate away. However, the Trice was a really good fit and so much fun. I could easily get up to speed and keep up the pace. I did refrain from cornering on two wheels as it wasn't mine but I could feel the potential.

I can see myself having one as my daily ride with a trailer for my work tools when needed. I can also imagine one with an electric motor in each front wheel...


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## dodgy (17 May 2008)

I'm torn between either a tadpole trike (probably a Catrike) due to the fact that I'm drawn to the styling and never having to take my feet off the pedals and the ease of setting off, and a recumbent bike (almost certainly faster). I class myself as a sport rider, I ride my Giant TCR2 with a certain amount of commitment and I'm starting to realise that possibly the Catrike Expedition I've been eyeing might actually be slower on one of my typical rides ( 80 miles on rolling Cheshire terrain).
I usually average ITRO 17 - 18mph on the TCR2 road bike, if a trike was available that would see me matching or even better, beating that, I'd be delighted. Yes I know there are lots of variables, but I'm imagining 250watts input on a trike versus a standard upright, is it fair to say the road bike would be fastest (but not as comfortable)?

DAVe.


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## Night Train (18 May 2008)

I think your average speed between the two (or three if you include a DF) would depend so much on terrain. On the level I would probably imagine bent bike, bent trike, DF bike but I think a novice would go faster on a bent trike as it is easier to use. Apparently a bent bike is difficult to balance and either you can or you can't is the impression I got today.


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## NickM (19 May 2008)

dodgy said:


> ...I'm imagining 250watts input on a trike versus a standard upright, is it fair to say the road bike would be fastest (but not as comfortable)?


Some answers (but not all of them) here; but as Night Train says, terrain would make a big difference. All machines effectively have the same mass once accelerated to speed - unless, that is, you go up a hill...


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## dodgy (19 May 2008)

If I had a trike, I could do a good job of providing some metrics to indicate speed expectations. I'd simply re-ride an already completed ride on the Trike, I'd use my Garmin Edge 705 (which records elevation, speed, heart rate etc) and together with weather information from a Sporttracks plugin I could give a reasonable idea if a trike is faster on a given type of ride (taking into account that I'll likely get faster as I become accustomed to muscle groups required).
It's too much money for me to risk, though. I'd be heartbroken to spend a couple of grand on a trike only to find it's slower (yes I know it's about comfort and fun, too).
Starting to fall out with the idea 

Dave.


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## squeaker (20 May 2008)

General impression I get from BROL, and my own experience, is that unfaired trikes are about 10% slower than unfaired recumbent bikes.
You could have a look at Kreuzotter to get some ideas of what's going on, but the only trike there is a Velomobile (Quest): undoubtedly the way to go fast on flat ground, but a bit of a leap from a TCR2!


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## dodgy (20 May 2008)

squeaker said:


> General impression I get from BROL, and my own experience, is that unfaired trikes are about 10% slower than unfaired recumbent bikes.



If that's the case, they're roughly about the same speed as a standard upright road bike? I have no interest in recumbent bikes, it's the comparison between trikes and upright bikes I'm interested in.

Cheers,
Dave.


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## NickM (20 May 2008)

dodgy said:


> ...I have no interest in recumbent bikes, it's the comparison between trikes and upright bikes I'm interested in.


I'm not sure why you've abandoned the idea of a recumbent bike, Dave - something like a Challenge Fujin SL seems closest to your original wants.

All recumbents have something to offer, whether they major on comfort, carrying capacity or "glamour"/speed... I wouldn't dismiss any type out of hand without having a go first. Most recumbent riders end up with more than one (he said, as the owner of five... and I haven't even got a trike yet*) 







*although I do have one of these


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## BentMikey (20 May 2008)

Says the Fujin owner.


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## squeaker (20 May 2008)

*Terrain?*



dodgy said:


> If that's the case, they're roughly about the same speed as a standard upright road bike?


Likely to be very terrain dependent - see here for comments from a fit triker on a hilly event.
(Maybe PM LeeW, as he now has a Fujin SL2....)


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## dodgy (21 May 2008)

dodgy said:


> If I had a trike, I could do a good job of providing some metrics to indicate speed expectations. I'd simply re-ride an already completed ride on the Trike, I'd use my Garmin Edge 705 (which records elevation, speed, heart rate etc) and together with weather information from a Sporttracks plugin I could give a reasonable idea if a trike is faster on a given type of ride (taking into account that I'll likely get faster as I become accustomed to muscle groups required).
> It's too much money for me to risk, though. I'd be heartbroken to spend a couple of grand on a trike only to find it's slower (yes I know it's about comfort and fun, too).
> Starting to fall out with the idea
> 
> Dave.



I've now gone and bought a Speedy, watch this space for some comparison data 
I must be bloody mad.
Dave.


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## NickM (21 May 2008)

dodgy said:


> I've now gone and bought a Speedy... ...I must be bloody mad.



Classic! 

Don't worry; it's a _good_ kind of mad 

Have you read this?

And can we expect to see you at a BHPC race meeting soon?


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## Johnny Thin (21 May 2008)

NickM said:


> Kingcycles RULE!! I liked my first one so much I got a second
> 
> However... they use obsolescent wheel sizes for which decent tyres are impossible to find. There's a way round this, but it entails getting a framebuilder involved, so it's a bit of a project... A better first recumbent might be a Speed Ross/Orbit Crystal - about £350-400 on t'Bay, and they come up every few months.



Second that - I've had both and have passed on the KC, I prefer the Ross in all respects and it's also got a stiffer seat for climbing. I wish I'd got one of the many eBay offerings before I got the chance to try a KC and bought it right away.

I've just had one of the many glorious rides home I do during the summer, country lanes all the way in sunshine, the Ross isn't mega fast on the flat but is very nippy and accelerates quickly and handles reliably, no chain interference or even chain noise. I averaged 15.7mph over 22 miles on rolling terrain; of course plenty of roadies could beat that but they're much fitter than me and I'd prob be looking at 13mph for my upright.


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## dodgy (21 May 2008)

NickM said:


> Classic!
> 
> Don't worry; it's a _good_ kind of mad
> 
> ...



Nick, I think I've read almost every reference to performance trikes on t'internet 

Dave.


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## NickM (22 May 2008)

Long weekend, new trike - woohoo!

Does life get any better? I hope you have a grand time.


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## dodgy (22 May 2008)

Thanks Nick, I am looking forward to it. It's a second hand one (from a reputable seller), I'm planning on getting the rebuild kit from AVD in case there's any wear in the UJ or the brakes need fettling. I really enjoy working on my bikes, but not as much as I enjoy riding 'em 
So a loooooong drive tomorrow to pick it up, but I'll be riding it at the weekend. The first ride I will do will be to replicate a fairly recent ride of about 25 miles to see how the speeds compare (taking into account I'll get slightly faster as I become accustomed to the new position).

Cheers,
Dave.


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## andharwheel (22 May 2008)

I took my windcheetah over some local hills at the weekend including an infamous hard climb 'The Suie'. No problems, third in the group. Scared myself silly on the descent well over 50MPH.


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## NickM (22 May 2008)

dodgy said:


> ...I'll get slightly faster as I become accustomed to the new position...


I reckon you'll get a _lot_ faster when you get used to doing this (third pic down) 

Furry helmet and daft shades optional


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