# What the devil is going on with these online cycling stores?



## lejogger (20 Mar 2013)

**Stands up** 
My name is Phil and… (stutters) and I’m an… online purchaser. 

I enjoy shopping around, finding the cheapest price and having items delivered to my door so that I can do my own fettling. It makes me feel like I’m getting the most out being a moderately self-sufficient cyclist. I _would_ go to my LBS if the prices were the same and they had the same range of items… but they’re not and they don’t.

I’ve had a bit of a wild month in flexible plastic terms. I’ve bought a fair few bits and pieces, most of which are earmarked for the first week of April when I’m on leave from work and will be performing a full strip down on the commuter and cleaning or replacing all parts. I therefore have a specific date that I would like these items to be delivered for. 

This is why I’m careful. I don’t usually buy things that say ‘stock due soon’ or ‘update me when stock is available’. I buy items that are clearly marked ‘in stock’. To me, ‘in stock’ means that they actually have the items in their shop/warehouse and they are available for dispatch as soon as my payment has cleared.

Now the first item wasn’t something that was for the commuter, so in this case it wasn’t an issue that it wasn’t ‘in stock’ because I wasn’t going to be using the best bike before March anyway. It was a luxury purchase of an SRAM heads up Garmin Mount and stock was expected early March from Wiggle. I was informed that my order was going to be cancelled within 20 days if my item hadn’t shown up, but then I found out that stock arrival expectation had changed to early April instead. 

“This is silly”, I thought, and I had a quick Google. Tweaks Cycle store have this product ‘In Stock’, AND it’s cheaper. Wiggle order cancelled. Tweaks order created.

It was then that I received the email stating that stock for this product was expected by the end of April… later than the Wiggle order, but unlike Wiggle, they’d already taken the payment from my card. What a bunch of ars*holes. 


If only this was an isolated incident. 

I also ordered from Wiggle an SRAM PG 1070 cassette (which is for the commuter). ‘In Stock’ it said. 
The chain I purchased at the same time was dispatched the very next day. I waited a week and a half for news of the cassette and nothing was forthcoming. Checked back on the Wiggle page and they don’t even offer the model I ordered in the same ratios anymore. I don’t really fancy my chances of receiving that anytime soon. 

Quick Google revealed that Fudges Cycle Store have the same cassette ‘In stock’ and it’s also a quid cheaper. Brilliant! Order placed, Wiggle order cancelled. 

I then receive the following email: ‘Your item states (stock arriving soon). We will contact you with a delivery date’.

NOOOOO! P*ss off!! It doesn’t state ‘stock arriving soon’, it clearly stated ‘IN F***ING STOCK’!!

RAAAAARRRGGGHHH!


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## 400bhp (20 Mar 2013)

I think this stock issue is more prevalent now than previously.

Like you, if it says "in stock" I take that to mean they have it ready to be delivered. Does it really need a change in legislation on the wording on the retailers websites.

I've had a similar experience recently with wiggle and buying a turbo trainer. I think they changed the "stock expected" date 4 or 5 times. I wasn't in a rush as I had a £50 off voucher I wanted to use with them. It worked in my favour anyway as they received a reconditioned unit of the same turbo trainer which I bought for £100 less.


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## Mile195 (20 Mar 2013)

I pretty much only ever order from Evans now. I've been mucked about with too much by other websites in the way you describe. The longest I ever had to wait for something from Evans was about 10 days. They aren't the cheapest, and they don't throw a bag of sweets in the box like Wiggle does, but they are very reliable when it comes to online ordering, and I've never yet paid for delivery on anything.


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## lejogger (20 Mar 2013)

400bhp said:


> I think this stock issue is more prevalent now than previously.


Definitely. It's a con though. Get the customers through the door with the promise of quick delivery for available goods, but in reality they can't afford to pay out for the stock they say they have and choose to order it in after the order is placed and paid for.

Does it work? Maybe, maybe not. Will I order from Tweaks or Fudges after this? Probably not now.



Mile195 said:


> I pretty much only ever order from Evans now. I've been mucked about with too much by other websites in the way you describe. The longest I ever had to wait for something from Evans was about 10 days. They aren't the cheapest, and they don't throw a bag of sweets in the box like Wiggle does, but they are very reliable when it comes to online ordering, and I've never yet paid for delivery on anything.


I understand this. Evans and Cycle Surgery normally are excellent with the speed of their delivery, but they're probably much larger, and there's also a £25 premium on the cassette with Evans.
I haven't had a bag of sweets from Wiggle in any of my orders this year


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## Mile195 (20 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> Definitely. It's a con though. Get the customers through the door with the promise of quick delivery for available goods, but in reality they can't afford to pay out for the stock they say they have and choose to order it in after the order is placed and paid for.
> 
> Does it work? Maybe, maybe not. Will I order from Tweaks or Fudges after this? Probably not now.
> 
> ...


 
I haven't placed any orders with Wiggle this year. But if they've stopped chucking in a bag of sweets then I probably won't be... That's a deal-breaker for me...


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## 400bhp (20 Mar 2013)

Demon Thieves are big lejog and I'm surprised they would do that kind of tactic. Bicycle parts are only a small part of their business and the cash generated from bike sales would have been insignificant in respect of the other stuff they sell, a lot of it which runs into thousands for one item.

The online selling will just get regulated more heavily in years to come.


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## fossala (20 Mar 2013)

I start getting annoyed when it hasn't turned up the next day. It makes post more fun though.


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## Lee_M (20 Mar 2013)

linking to another thread, these stores are obviously preying on the weak old and vunerable shoppers, and they should be ashamed of themselves


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## 400bhp (20 Mar 2013)

My 4 year old now know that anything which comes in a box in the post will be for "papas bike".  She does think all boxes come with sweeties in them though.


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## 400bhp (20 Mar 2013)

Lee_M said:


> linking to another thread, these stores are obviously preying on the weak old and vunerable shoppers, and they should be ashamed of themselves


 
Outrageous - someone think of the children


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## akb (20 Mar 2013)

> stopped chucking in a bag of sweets


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## davefb (20 Mar 2013)

took payment, and changed delivery date?

think that'd be time to roll out the shouty voice...


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## lejogger (20 Mar 2013)

Taking inspiration from davefb, I contacted Fudges Cycle Store demanding to know what on earth was going on. 'Website says in stock.. blah blah blah, ....email says stock arriving soon... rant rant rant..'

Imagine my embarrasment when a polite reply from Fudges Cycle Store points out that my item is actually in stock. The wording on the email was 'IF your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date', not 'Your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date'.

Oh the shame. A shouty email and a Cycle Chat rant. All for nothing 

What a pratt.


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## Lee_M (20 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> Taking inspiration from davefb, I contacted Fudges Cycle Store demanding to know what on earth was going on. 'Website says in stock.. blah blah blah, ....email says stock arriving soon... rant rant rant..'
> 
> Imagine my embarrasment when a polite reply from Fudges Cycle Store points out that my item is actually in stock. The wording on the email was 'IF your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date', not 'Your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date'.
> 
> ...


 
I assume you are going to go and beat yourself soundly with a used bike chain


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## fossala (20 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> Taking inspiration from davefb, I contacted Fudges Cycle Store demanding to know what on earth was going on. 'Website says in stock.. blah blah blah, ....email says stock arriving soon... rant rant rant..'
> 
> Imagine my embarrasment when a polite reply from Fudges Cycle Store points out that my item is actually in stock. The wording on the email was 'IF your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date', not 'Your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date'.
> 
> ...


At least you're man enough to hold your hands up when you make a mistake.


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## lejogger (20 Mar 2013)

Lee_M said:


> I assume you are going to go and beat yourself soundly with a used bike chain


Perhaps when it arrives, a first task for the new cassette, lashed to the end of my chain whip?


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## Sara_H (20 Mar 2013)

I agree. If something states it's in stock, I take that to mean its in a room out the back and a chap will be ambling through to parcel it up and post it as soon as I've clicked the button and my payment has cleared.

Internet shopping is great when it goes well, pants when its not.


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## compo (20 Mar 2013)

Lee_M said:


> linking to another thread, these stores are obviously preying on the weak old and vunerable shoppers, and they should be ashamed of themselves


 
like it


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## compo (20 Mar 2013)

I had a problem last week with an "In Stock" item that was actually out of stock. The retailer refunded me immediately. I had paid with PayPal so the refund went to them and PayPal put it on hold for a week before releasing the funds. I have just now transferred the money to my bank account.


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## phil_hg_uk (20 Mar 2013)

This also happens with 'Real World' shopping.

When I was decorating the living room I ordered the carpet 2 months in advance and paid for it as well. I organised everything so the carpet would turn up exactly when it was needed, only for the carpet shop to ring me the day before it was due to tell me they didnt have it  . So I told them to give me a refund and I would go elsewhere and I gave them a right gob full only for them to say 'well did you think we kept it in stock' well DUH yes considering i had paid for it 2 months ago, a few mins later they rang back to say they had found one and would be round after all . It turned out that they didnt have the right width so had to use a much wider carpet to get it all in on piece so they had more waste than they wanted to have


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## rb58 (20 Mar 2013)

And I've had the wrong item delivered from Wiggle on more than one occasion recently. It's hassle returning and waiting over for the right one. I think their systems are in meltdown.


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## Kookas (20 Mar 2013)

Mile195 said:


> I haven't placed any orders with Wiggle this year. But if they've stopped chucking in a bag of sweets then I probably won't be... That's a deal-breaker for me...



I've got them every second order or so so far.


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## DCLane (20 Mar 2013)

Chain Reaction / Wiggle (with sweets in) and Evans have been fine for me recently.

Tweeks I won't touch with a bargepole.


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## fossyant (20 Mar 2013)

I ordered a new headset for one of my bikes, fairly rare and not cheap Dura Ace 7410. Said in stock at a particular seller, nothing, then about 3 weeks later, email - order cancelled.

Phoned SJS Cycles, their stock said 1 in. The guy checked, could hear him rumbling about, can't find it though. I will order you one direct from Madison. All sorted and delivered within a few days.


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## d87francis (20 Mar 2013)

I've ordered a lot online for my bikes and have similar feelings about LBS. Whilst I've had some bad experiences nothing compares to my recent online purchase of a ukulele.

Ordered from a shop in Brighton that said it was "in stock" (not the very famous music shop in Brighton!), hadn't turned up after a week and a half so I emailed to ask for an estimated delivery. Didn't hear anything for 3 days when I get an email apologising for the delay saying that the uke is due in stock any day and should be with me by next week. Waited over a week, no uke, send them an email don't hear anything for 2 days, decide to call them - can get hold of the shop but they have a separate number for the online shop and that person is out, I left a message asking them to call me. Heard nothing for another two days, when I get an email saying it'll be any day now.

I wait another week, still nothing, so I email and call, no one answers either. I leave another message with the shop asking to be called back, hear nothing. After 3 days of calling I get hold of someone who says they are still waiting for their order to come in that was initially delayed 3 weeks ago due to snow, we've since had over 2 weeks of no snow. They cannot tell me when this delivery of stock is due which I find suspicious. After waiting 5 weeks I filed for a paypal refund, which then takes a week to process.

I order a ukulele from somewhere else that said it was in stock and next day delivery. After 2 days I email to ask where it is and later that day receive tracking details for a 48 hour courier service. The uke turns up 2 days later and is broken. I had to post it back get a refund and then source another uke, which yet again takes 5 days to arrive when advertised as next day!

Finally 3 months after ordering my ukulele I have one. From this am I allowed to make generalisations about people who work in music shops?


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## Peteaud (20 Mar 2013)

I just pick up a telephone, call the lbs(s) and ask if they have one and the best price.

Then i go and get it.

No waiting about, no emails saying not in stock.


Yes online can be good, but as you have found out sometimes it is a pita.


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## davefb (20 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> Taking inspiration from davefb, I contacted Fudges Cycle Store demanding to know what on earth was going on. 'Website says in stock.. blah blah blah, ....email says stock arriving soon... rant rant rant..'
> 
> Imagine my embarrasment when a polite reply from Fudges Cycle Store points out that my item is actually in stock. The wording on the email was 'IF your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date', not 'Your item states (Stock arriving soon) we will contact you with a delivery date'.
> 
> ...


 
haha, so when's it turning up then


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## lejogger (20 Mar 2013)

davefb said:


> haha, so when's it turning up then


After I sent a further email with my profuse apologies, I received a reply email stating that despite selecting economy postage they had dispatched it for me this very afternoon. 

Far more than I deserved 

Thumbs up to the lovely folk at Fudges Cycle Store!


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## uclown2002 (20 Mar 2013)

Received a small delivery from Wiggle today, WITH the customary bag of sweets. In fact, every order from Wiggle contains sweets for me.


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## 400bhp (20 Mar 2013)

d87francis said:


> I've ordered a lot online for my bikes and have similar feelings about LBS. Whilst I've had some bad experiences nothing compares to my recent online purchase of a ukulele.
> 
> Ordered from a shop in Brighton that said it was "in stock" (not the very famous music shop in Brighton!), hadn't turned up after a week and a half so I emailed to ask for an estimated delivery. Didn't hear anything for 3 days when I get an email apologising for the delay saying that the uke is due in stock any day and should be with me by next week. Waited over a week, no uke, send them an email don't hear anything for 2 days, decide to call them - can get hold of the shop but they have a separate number for the online shop and that person is out, I left a message asking them to call me. Heard nothing for another two days, when I get an email saying it'll be any day now.
> 
> ...


 
Well, you will order odd instruments. Just order a guitar in future.


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## Big John (20 Mar 2013)

I bought a bike light from DealExtreme. Took ages to arrive (presumably a slow boat from China) and when it did it didn't work. The bloody thing went off every time I hit a bump. Not brilliant when you're riding in the pitch black. I tried, god did I try, to get in touch with them via their 'chat' facility and spoke to someone called George or Fred or some other typically English name but the guy was obviously Chinese. They said they'd send me one that worked. Lovely. A working light. Now there's a novelty. A week later a bracket to hold the light turned up in the post. Now I've got two brackets and one piece of scrap iron. Rant over.

I've bought from Wiggle, Evans, Chain Reaction, Tredz, Parkers, you name it and been dead lucky so far. No problems with delays, wrong stuff arriving or anything. Buy from a British company fellas. Don't get suckered into the cheap prices offered by our friends overseas like I did.


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## Mallory (21 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> After I sent a further email with my profuse apologies, I received a reply email stating that despite selecting economy postage they had dispatched it for me this very afternoon.
> 
> Far more than I deserved
> 
> Thumbs up to the lovely folk at Fudges Cycle Store!



Just make sure you are aware of your legal rights though!!! 

The manager (harrow road) of the above mentioned store "tried" to deny my right of refund for almost £800!!! Thankfully I know my rights within the distance selling act. I Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!!!


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## lejogger (21 Mar 2013)

Mallory said:


> Just make sure you are aware of your legal rights though!!!
> 
> The manager (harrow road) of the above mentioned store "tried" to deny my right of refund for almost £800!!! Thankfully I know my rights within the distance selling act. I Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!!!


I can't imagine there are many stores in the country who haven't had a run in with some customers at some point or other, or alternatively provided some great customer service on occasion or as standard. 

The great thing about this forum is that we can all help each other out by sharing our experiences and the wheat should always separate from the chaff.


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## youngoldbloke (21 Mar 2013)

I don't want sweets from Wiggle - I just want low prices. They are rarely the most competitive nowadays (applies to Chain Reaction and PBK too).


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## coffeejo (21 Mar 2013)

Mile195 said:


> I haven't placed any orders with Wiggle this year. But if they've stopped chucking in a bag of sweets then I probably won't be... That's a deal-breaker for me...


I had 'bo in my parcel on Tuesday


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## Crankarm (21 Mar 2013)

I wouldn't touch Wiggle with a barge pole after they totally buggered up an order I made about 18 months ago. Neither Parkers.

For me it's how they deal with probs when they happen as they will from time to time. CRC, Merlin, Condor and HighonBikes are my preferred choices.


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## PpPete (21 Mar 2013)

Despite what used to be a dire reputation for customer service, Ribble have a 100% record of correct item, delivered promptly for the many items I have bought from them over the last few years. Merlin are good too, if anything slightly quicker than Ribble
Rose and Planet-X are good too, although I've had a wrong item from each of those - both swiftly resolved.
Only ever had stock/not in stock issues with Parkers and J.E.James


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## billy1561 (21 Mar 2013)

Tweeks were spot on when i ordered a bike from them. Ready for collection on the day chosen and subsequent discount on road shoes which they posted out next day to me. 
Never had any issues with wiggle, chain reaction, merlin or fudges. Nor for that matter my Lbs which despite being more expensive is my shop of choice.


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## davefb (21 Mar 2013)

Big John said:


> I bought a bike light from DealExtreme. Took ages to arrive (presumably a slow boat from China) and when it did it didn't work. The bloody thing went off every time I hit a bump. Not brilliant when you're riding in the pitch black. I tried, god did I try, to get in touch with them via their 'chat' facility and spoke to someone called George or Fred or some other typically English name but the guy was obviously Chinese. They said they'd send me one that worked. Lovely. A working light. Now there's a novelty. A week later a bracket to hold the light turned up in the post. Now I've got two brackets and one piece of scrap iron. Rant over.
> 
> I've bought from Wiggle, Evans, Chain Reaction, Tredz, Parkers, you name it and been dead lucky so far. No problems with delays, wrong stuff arriving or anything. Buy from a British company fellas. Don't get suckered into the cheap prices offered by our friends overseas like I did.


 
these look like a great outfit.. ( assuming I've got the right deal extreme, can't say i've seen em before!)
http://cs.dx.com/FAQ/Detail/10


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## davefb (21 Mar 2013)

Crankarm said:


> I wouldn't touch Wiggle with a barge pole after they totally buggered up an order I made about 18 months ago. Neither Parkers.
> 
> For me it's how they deal with probs when they happen as they will from time to time. CRC, Merlin, Condor and HighonBikes are my preferred choices.


 
I've not really bought much bike parts , but bought quite a bit of computer hardware... it's "how they deal with returns" that sorts the men from the boys..


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## Lanzecki (21 Mar 2013)

This happens across the board. Even the local computer wholesaler states that he has the kit in stock but when I say "I'll drive down to get it" there is problem. 

It's the definition of what 'in stock' means. Let's pretend I run an online store. I can carry the item you want, but I don't want to pay for the stock to be delivered to my warehouse and sit there waiting for someone to buy it. This is cash tied up in stock. If I have all my cash tied up in slow selling stock I cannot buy new stock.

If I don't sell it in good time, or the item is superseded, I have to sell at a discount. This generates me less income. 

The current model is : if the item is in stock at my supplier then I'll tell you it's in stock. Often the item will be delivered directly from my supplier in my packaging. This is becoming a standard feature. 

The less stock I carry means I need smaller premises and have less cash tied up in stock. 

Personally I think the way they do this stinks. I got caught out a few times with suppliers saying it's in stock, me telling the customer it's in stock, only to be told It's a 3 week wait.


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## e-rider (26 Mar 2013)

Crankarm said:


> I wouldn't touch Wiggle with a barge pole after they totally buggered up an order I made about 18 months ago. Neither Parkers.
> 
> For me it's how they deal with probs when they happen as they will from time to time. CRC, Merlin, Condor and HighonBikes are my preferred choices.


 
I agree that it's all about how they deal with problems - Parkers are crap for that. However, Highonbikes tried it on with me too. I think an online shop doesn't exist that has pissed someone off at some point. I've always found CRC and Wiggle to be quite reasonable at sorting problems - can't say the same for many smaller stores.
As for 'stock levels' it is usually quite obvious by having a quick browse of a website whether they actaully have live updating of stock levels (few sites) or whether they just claim to have everything in stock (most sites) but don't.


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## lejogger (26 Mar 2013)

In the way of a quick follow up, the cassette I ordered arrived the very next day... Really can't fault Fudges on this one. 
Price, delivery and customer service all spot on.


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## RWright (26 Mar 2013)

I had a good experience with Wiggle. I found the best price on a few things I needed and they happened to be running them on special. I had deleted an email with a voucher code they had sent me. I emailed customer service and a lady told me to place my order, email her after I did, and she would apply the discount. I did as she said, she gave me the discount and five days or so later my things were here in the US, free shipping because of the price of the order. However, I did not get any candy.  I don't think they are allowed to send food here. 

I have ordered from Chain Reaction Cycles and it was fine too, but it did take an extra day or two before I got the confirmation that the item had been shipped and it took about 10 days to get here. It could have just had something to do with what I had ordered but it was on special so I assumed they would have it in stock. I have had good luck with Handtec as well, even though I did get popped for tax by customs on my Garmin 800, it still saved me a lot compared to the price I could have got here.

I order from China but try to use one supplier I have dealt with for a while now, but it is normally just lights and smaller accessories. It normally takes about 10 days from there. I have had one quality issue but it was resolved with a full refund and no return of the item. I have not tried any French or German suppliers yet.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Mar 2013)

d87francis said:


> Finally 3 months after ordering my ukulele I have one. From this am I allowed to make generalisations about people who work in music shops?


Musically speaking

those who can do
those who can't, teach (though some who do teach too)
those who can't teach work in music retail

should have gone to Hobgoblin btw.


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## Psycolist (26 Mar 2013)

lejogger said:


> After I sent a further email with my profuse apologies, I received a reply email stating that despite selecting economy postage they had dispatched it for me this very afternoon.
> 
> Far more than I deserved
> 
> Thumbs up to the lovely folk at Fudges Cycle Store!


 I used to live live very close to a Fudges, and even back in the 70's I would walk past Hellfrauds to go to Fudges, and thats before I really knew any better. I havnt visited a branch in 30 years but I remember them as the ideal LBS, friendly, knowlegable, well stocked and well priced. I'm not surprised to find them still in business.


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## billy1561 (26 Mar 2013)

Bought a few bits and pieces from Fudges this last 2 years and every item has been delivered on time


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## youngoldbloke (27 Mar 2013)

Received a package from H&S Bike-Discount - Germany - this lunchtime. Ordered Monday morning. That's pretty good service! ( - and their prices were very competitive too - even after adding the £5.25 P&P, and they had the items in stock!).


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## Cycleops (27 Mar 2013)

d87francis said:


> I've ordered a lot online for my bikes and have similar feelings about LBS. Whilst I've had some bad experiences nothing compares to my recent online purchase of a ukulele.
> 
> Ordered from a shop in Brighton that said it was "in stock" (not the very famous music shop in Brighton!), hadn't turned up after a week and a half so I emailed to ask for an estimated delivery. Didn't hear anything for 3 days when I get an email apologising for the delay saying that the uke is due in stock any day and should be with me by next week. Waited over a week, no uke, send them an email don't hear anything for 2 days, decide to call them - can get hold of the shop but they have a separate number for the online shop and that person is out, I left a message asking them to call me. Heard nothing for another two days, when I get an email saying it'll be any day now.
> 
> ...



George Formby would have been mortified.


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## Mr Haematocrit (1 Apr 2013)

WIggle are a pita, they could not be bothered to respond to my question before buying a bike, so I brought it from elsewhere


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## lejogger (12 Apr 2013)

Ok, here's another culprit.

Finally got around to stripping the bike down last week and found out that my BB5 brake calipers were shot.

I'd been thinking about upgrading to the BB7 road anyway, so scoured the net for an emergency pair. Only one store (Triton Cycles) had them in stock at £10 a set more expensive that anywhere else.

Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that, so order placed and guess what. On back order, due May 6th.

WHY, IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, DOES YOUR WEBSITE SAY THEY ARE IN STOCK!!!!!!!

...STILL!!!

Looks like I'm carbon commuting for a bit longer then.

PS order cancelled, I'll go with one of the cheaper shops thanks.


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## the_mikey (9 Feb 2014)

I wish wiggle would send more starmix, I don't enjoy the tangfastics.


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## uclown2002 (9 Feb 2014)

the_mikey said:


> I wish wiggle would send more starmix, I don't enjoy the tangfastics.


wtf! I love the tangtastics.


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## Cycleops (10 Feb 2014)

I wonder if you ordered sweets on line would they send you free bike parts?


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## byegad (10 Feb 2014)

In defence of on-line stores. 

I started going to Wiggle, CRC, Edinburgh Coop, Evans and the rest after walking into my local LBS (Nearly 11 miles away from home.) to be told they didn't have any one of three cassettes I wanted and would order them for me, ending:- It'll be about a week. I said I'd think about it. Went home and ordered them on-line two from one seller the other from another. They arrived two days later and they were considerably cheaper even including two lots of postage. 

Nowadays I rarely buy anything in a store. I'm sat waiting for a second hand camera lens coming in the post this morning and have just received a camera bag through a carrier. To find either of these items in a real store I'd have spent money for petrol and parking in several towns and maybe not found either. 

The cost of driving to my nearest town and parking for a couple of hours would have paid for the lens, the bus fare to that town would again, cover the cost of the lens. (Yes I know I could have taken the trike and done it for free, but most shoppers drive or take the bus.) As the nearest town has one camera shop the likelihood of finding these items is low and visiting several other towns in the area would make the cost a lot more, still with no guarantee of availability.


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