# Making Models From Scratch



## Reynard (31 Jan 2021)

So as not to clog up the Mundane News thread with the minutiae of my 1:10 scale Higman Superstox project, thought I'd start a new thread on the ins and outs of scratch-built models.

I have to confess that I'm a modelling newbie - my only previous experience is with a few cheap plastic kits well over three decades ago. You know, the ones that never fit together right, where the glue doesn't set completely and the paint and decals refused to stay put... My background is in automotive engineering, so the design work itself isn't the issue. Where I could use advice is in making that leap from drawings on a page to actually making parts. So methods, materials, hints and tips, that sort of thing, from heads wiser than mine.

Was hoping to make the main part of the chassis (which includes the mount points for the side irons and front & rear bumpers) from fibreboard. Unfortunately the piece that I have is warped, which means it's no go. The alternative I have to hand is 5mm thick plywood, but am not sure if it is the right material for what is a pretty complicated shape.







This piece is the structural "backbone" of the whole model, so I have to get it right...

Oh, and this is what I'm trying to build... (#221)


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## HMS_Dave (31 Jan 2021)

I used to build Airfix models when i was younger. I was never good enough to go from scratch. I lost touch with it until this past Xmas when i brought my lad an RC Car. It's sort of caused an itch again if im honest that may need to be scratched.

I for one am looking forward to your progress.


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## oldworld (31 Jan 2021)

Looking forward to seeing how you get on.

I've always liked ships and had the idea of building a model. I looked at the price of wood kits and ruled that out as being far too expensive for something I wasn't sure I'd be able to do. 

I came across an old plan of a Scottish steam drifter and decided to have a go. 
Getting my head around the drawing was the first hurdle. Next came what to make it from. 
Being a cheapskate and not wanting to spend lots on modelling wood I used what I had. This meant lot's of sawing thick sections to get the thin strips I needed.
I managed to make a reasonable model, not museum standard but not too off scale. 
Off and on it took me 2 years but it got the itch to make a model boat scratched.
Somebody once told me the experts who make things for others get more enjoyment from the making than do the owners they are intended for. I think he's right.
It now sits in my daughters living room.

I marvel at the fantastic work some modellers produce but I spent almost zero and only had basic DIY tools and items I made myself.

I now have a doll's house furniture to make for my wife's hobby. This is much easier as furniture tend to have right angles!


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## Illaveago (31 Jan 2021)

You could get some strip wood the correct thickness of near enough to make the sticky out bits . For some reason Obeche wood springs to mind from modelling days. I think it was used on my model of a Fairly Huntsman speed boat .​It would be best to cut notches into the main flat section so as to form a lap joint rather just gluing the pieces straight on to the edge .​It will be nice to see how you progress .​


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## Cycleops (31 Jan 2021)

I’ve built my own RC planes from plans but in wood. Making a complex shape in ply I would use a coping saw with a fine blade, which would work for your chassis but what is the intended use? Is it a working electric model or just static display? Obviously ply wouldn’t be strong enough for the former.

@Andy in Germany is scratch builder of model railways and I’m sure he could add quite a few useful tips.


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## Bazzer (31 Jan 2021)

You might want to look at some of the RC modellers on YouTube. I suspect their work is way beyond what you are planning to do, at least at the present  but you may find it useful to see the materials they work with, how they use them and (possibly) their sources.
There is one guy, Ramy RC, who does some amazing work. A few of his videos have appeared in my YouTube feed, although I don't do modelling other than a few years ago I made from scratch for a friend's retirement from work, a scale model of a his then Cessna. The fuselage was pine, wings balsa, propeller and nose cone carved from a single piece of wood, with aluminium wheel struts. The wheels and tyres came from a model car I had to source to get the correct looking wheels.


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## MontyVeda (31 Jan 2021)

I used to make scratch built models out of cardboard (cereal boxes, etc)... obvs for display purposes only. Making box sections of all the individual parts is straight forward enough, just need loads of pegs and paperclips to hold it together whilst the glue (PVA) sets. It can be very sturdy because it's all box sections.

No photos of any of my scratch built stuff because it was the 90s and i didn't have a camera, and most were given away as gifts... but this off-the-shelf model Enterprise shows just what curves can be created with card...


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## CanucksTraveller (31 Jan 2021)

I tend to model mostly in Fimo and Sculpey with wooden and metal wire armature/ frames but they're more sculpture (of a sort) rather than accurate scale models. This might help though, this one started out as a really basic 6 quid wooden plywood house / 3D jigsaw kit from Hobbycraft then it was built up with Fimo, and had figures modelled and added, snow, curtains, lighting etc.





It started out like this:


















I'd maybe make the chassis out of that same thinnish plywood and cut out your template shape with a hacksaw, I believe Hobbycraft sell sheets of it but if not I'd buy that house kit pictured and just fill the holes in the base plate with wood filler. The rest of the panels might be useful for the bodywork.
Nice project idea by the way! *Follows thread*


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## simongt (31 Jan 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> I used to build Airfix models when i was younger.


So did I back in the '60s when they were virtually all that was about. Now, even with their current marketing, the standard of mould, fitting etc. is very poor in my recent experience. The competition from central European & far Eastern companies is now so fierce that there is a huge range of much better kits available across most subjects. Tamiya is still the 'go to' company for quality, but there's a lot of others snapping at their heels - !


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## Reynard (31 Jan 2021)

It's a static display model, so wood and card will be the mainstay of the structure. I saw some petrol-powered RC Superstox at a racing car show I went to last February, which is where I kind of got the idea of building one from in the first place.  (I have two RC cars, but I'm useless with them LOL)

I was hoping to make the chassis platform in a single piece, but the more I think about it, the more problems I see. This is exactly *why* I need advice. 

A jigsaw and assorted hacksaws I most definitely have, and, there's probably a coping saw lurking somewhere among my dad's old upholstery tools.

Am currently having fun (!) scaling some pretty ropey photos and turning them into a complete set of engineering drawings. I'm also really lucky that a friend's husband actually builds these types of race car, and spanners on them, so I can get the gaps filled in where the photos don't give me enough information.

No idea how long this is going to take - or even whether I can pull it off, but if I don't try, I'll never find out, will I?


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2021)

Reynard said:


> So as not to clog up the Mundane News thread with the minutiae of my 1:10 scale Higman Superstox project, thought I'd start a new thread on the ins and outs of scratch-built models.
> 
> I have to confess that I'm a modelling newbie - my only previous experience is with a few cheap plastic kits well over three decades ago. You know, the ones that never fit together right, where the glue doesn't set completely and the paint and decals refused to stay put... My background is in automotive engineering, so the design work itself isn't the issue. Where I could use advice is in making that leap from drawings on a page to actually making parts. So methods, materials, hints and tips, that sort of thing, from heads wiser than mine.
> 
> ...



Hi @Reynard. Are those dimension on the sketch from the original of for the model? 
Is there a reason it isn't symmetrical?


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## Reynard (31 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Hi @Reynard. Are those dimension on the sketch from the original of for the model?
> Is there a reason it isn't symmetrical?



The dimensions are in mm and are for the model. I've already scaled down to 1:10

And that piece should be symmetrical along the centerline - it looks wonky because I had to stitch the image together as my flatbed scanner only goes up to A4. And I didn't do a terribly good job of it.  The front of the chassis structure is on the left as you look at it, and the rear is on the right.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2021)

Reynard said:


> The dimensions are in mm and are for the model. I've already scaled down to 1:10
> 
> And that piece should be symmetrical along the centerline - it looks wonky because I had to stitch the image together as my flatbed scanner only goes up to A4. And I didn't do a terribly good job of it.  The front of the chassis structure is on the left as you look at it, and the rear is on the right.



Thanks @Reynard, but that wasn't what I meant. I'Ve taken your picture and circled two dimensions, which appear to be taken from the centre line to the end of what I'm guessing is a bumper. They appear to show a different length, is this the case?

Also, what is the length and width of that centre block for the chassis, shown by the green lines?


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## Reynard (31 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thanks @Reynard, but that wasn't what I meant. I'Ve taken your picture and circled two dimensions, which appear to be taken from the centre line to the end of what I'm guessing is a bumper. They appear to show a different length, is this the case?
> 
> Also, what is the length and width of that centre block for the chassis, shown by the green lines?
> 
> View attachment 571449



OK, my bad... 

Yes, the bumpers are asymmetrical - front and rear. These cars run anticlockwise on short ovals, in a formula that allows contact. So the longer bumpers on the right hand side protect the wheels should you get stuffed into the concrete retaining wall on the outside by the opposition...

N.B. The bumpers and side irons (as drawn) sit perpendicular to the chassis platform - the thickness of those is 3 mm.

Length of chassis platform is 263 mm, the width is 60 mm. Chassis thickness (depth) is 5 mm - which corresponds to the 50 mm box section steel that it's made from in real life.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> OK, my bad...
> 
> Yes, the bumpers are asymmetrical - front and rear. These cars run anticlockwise on short ovals, in a formula that allows contact. So the longer bumpers on the right hand side protect the wheels should you get stuffed into the concrete retaining wall on the outside by the opposition...
> 
> ...



That makes a lot more sense now, thanks.

I've been thinking how I'd approach this. Bear in mind I prefer to use low tech methods with minimal tools, so take it for what it's worth...

I'd make the central rectangle as a rectangle and add the square section bits afterwards, simply because I'd find it simpler. I have a client who could probably cut that out of 6mm ply but I couldn't.

You could use ply for the central block, I'd probably use thick card like mounting board as I'm lazy. In that case, I'd laminate several bits with superglue: I'd cut the first one perhaps 1mm larger overall, then because I can't measure that accurately twice, I'd glue it onto another larger piece of card, and then cut around it, and repeat until I had a 5mm thick slab. Then I'd pour superglue all around the edges so the set like a rock, and file or sand half a millimetre off each edge so it is smooth and can take a drill bit. You will use a lot of superglue by the way, get a big pot and open the window.

I'd make the square section bits the same way, just long strips and then cut them to the length I wanted.

You may get away with gluing the square bits onto the chassis block, but it would be safer to use a metal rod to give a bit more solidity. I'd probably use a piece of Chinese takeaway handle, which has the added advantage you have a really good excuse to get two boxes so you have more materials. I'd drill a cm into the end of the square section so the takeaway handle fits snugly, and leave about a cm sticking out. Then drill a hole into the chassis at the right place and angle, about 0.5 mm bigger so you have a bit of wiggle room if it doesn't fit perfectly. the superglue will fill the hole and any gaps. I told you you'd need lots of superglue.

I'd make the bumpers about the same way, the side ones with two long sections and small spacers. If you make them a tiny bit over size, and soak the edges in superglue you can sand them so when painted they look smooth.

A slightly more expensive method is to use plastic card and liquid cement: I do this with railway models. This has the advantage that the plastic cement welds the plastic and the plastic itself has a smooth metallic appearance. You can also get square section rods from companies like Evergreen plastic rods which will cut and weld like metal, and they can be positioned a bit more slowly than with superglue which can be a bit too fast.

Hope that helps. I'm sure someone on here makes much finer models than I can can advise.


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## Reynard (1 Feb 2021)

Yes @Andy in Germany - that helps a LOT.  You've definitely given me options to consider going forward, plus some ideas about how to make some of the other parts.

I'm still a ways from starting the "making" side of this, not to mention that it's still much too cold to putter in the garage for any length of time. And I can't do the big glue-based bits in the house on account of two nosy felines who have a tendency to lend a paw with craft projects. De-glueing a cat is most definitely not on my agenda. 

I've cut complicated shapes like that in the past when I've had access to a band saw, but I think I'd struggle with a jigsaw. Straight lines though, aren't a problem. I might take a hybrid approach and do the more difficult angled supports as separate pieces to avoid any breakages-during-making. As an engineer, I know from experience that butt joints aren't terribly stable, but I've got some fairly heavy gauge wire which should do well in lieu of the takeaway box handle, and some nice pieces of salvaged floorboards as well as assorted bits of plywood.. Which means I'll have to buy some fine drill bits, because I don't think I have any that are smaller than 3mm...

And it's frustrating that at the moment, the two places where I can get decent (i.e. not cheap tat) craft and modelling supplies locally are currently shut as being non-essential. I could buy online I suppose, but I just don't have enough experience to know exactly what I need or should be looking for.

I first need to get the whole chassis / suspension / driveshaft / wheels / hubs layout sorted anyway.


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## classic33 (2 Feb 2021)

Wines, B&Q and Wilkos/Wilkinsons have some of the dremel type tools in, as well as their own brands. Means they'll have some small drill bits in. 

B&Q also carry sectional aluminum.


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## Phaeton (2 Feb 2021)

If you use @Andy in Germany idea of laminating 5 layers of card, is it possible to laminate 3 layers, then add the wire at the right points, then add the top layer, wait for that to cure, then flip over add wire on the other side & then put the 5th layer on. Then build the arms in the same way that way you'd not have to drill any holes.


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## ren531 (2 Feb 2021)

I scratch built this from a set of plans only, making every fixture and fitting myself mainly out of scrap bits off cuts and only buying what wood I had to like the planking for the hull and decks.
I have to say now that it took me 10 years to complete it 2007 to 2017 because I had one rule don't do it if your not in the mood, i guess i wasn't in the mood a lot.
But I would agree with what others have said the building of it was just so enjoyable, it mattered not how long it took, watching this beautiful graceful looking vessel grow was bewitching.


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## Reynard (2 Feb 2021)

ren531 said:


> I scratch built this from a set of plans only, making every fixture and fitting myself mainly out of scrap bits off cuts and only buying what wood I had to like the planking for the hull and decks.
> I have to say now that it took me 10 years to complete it 2007 to 2017 because I had one rule don't do it if your not in the mood, i guess i wasn't in the mood a lot.
> But I would agree with what others have said the building of it was just so enjoyable, it mattered not how long it took, watching this beautiful graceful looking vessel grow was bewitching.
> View attachment 571821
> ...



Wow! 

I do a lot of craft - mainly painting and sewing - just not modelling. That's new for me. Both the "planning" and the "doing" are enjoyable. And good for my head as well. I like nothing better than to lose myself in the moment.


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## Reynard (2 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> Wines, B&Q and Wilkos/Wilkinsons have some of the dremel type tools in, as well as their own brands. Means they'll have some small drill bits in.
> 
> B&Q also carry sectional aluminum.



I have to swing by Wilkos tomorrow anyway, so I'll take a look.  They're usually pretty good with tools, and failing that, I have a really good agricultural engineering place up the road. And there's a Screwfix not too far away.

Alas, the nearest B&Q is in Cambridge, so that's off the agenda.


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## Reynard (2 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> If you use @Andy in Germany idea of laminating 5 layers of card, is it possible to laminate 3 layers, then add the wire at the right points, then add the top layer, wait for that to cure, then flip over add wire on the other side & then put the 5th layer on. Then build the arms in the same way that way you'd not have to drill any holes.



I'd thought about doing that for some of the bits, given it's how you add fixture points to composite components.  It's looking like joining stuff securely is going to be the biggest challenge.

On the plus side, I have found a sheet of 8mm ply and two good sheets of 5mm ply that I can use, as well as the wooden core from a bolt of fabric - which happens to be the exact diameter I need for the wheels.


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## Randomnerd (2 Feb 2021)

A fret saw and a board and clamp are useful for making models. You can get very good Finnish birch ply online down to very thin. It’s trilaminated and pretty good.


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## ren531 (2 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> Wow!
> 
> I do a lot of craft - mainly painting and sewing - just not modelling. That's new for me. Both the "planning" and the "doing" are enjoyable. And good for my head as well. I like nothing better than to lose myself in the moment.


Agreed, this is one of the few things that I have ever found that I could totally lose myself in completely and its a nice state of mind.


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## Mark Grant (2 Feb 2021)

Here's a R/C DC2 I built some years ago. I drew up the plans from 3 views. About 45" span, 2 electric motors, it flew well but I can't find any pictures of it finished.
I think a mate still has it.


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## ren531 (3 Feb 2021)

Its quite a difficult structure to make strong enough, perhaps using plywood for the main base and then dowel for the struts, cutting slots into the ply to support them and glueing them together that way it's strong you have good control over getting the angles correct and perhaps the real thing uses tubing? and would look more original. I think this is how I would try.


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## simongt (3 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm sure someone on here makes much finer models than I can


Oh indeed - ! There's a lot of modelling 'anoraks' out there who go to, in my view, ridiculous lengths to 'get it right' and will tell you that your model isn't quite the right shade of whatever colour for that particular year, or it doesn't have quite the right markings on etc., etc..
My take is that it's MY model and I'll finish it in whatever way pleases me - !


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

ren531 said:


> Its quite a difficult structure to make strong enough, perhaps using plywood for the main base and then dowel for the struts, cutting slots into the ply to support them and glueing them together that way it's strong you have good control over getting the angles correct and perhaps the real thing uses tubing? and would look more original. I think this is how I would try.



Yeah, the real thing uses steel box section in assorted sizes. 

The chassis and roll cage will be challenging to make, no doubt about that. I also have an assortment of heavy duty wire knocking about in the garage, so glue-soaked paper strips wrapped over wire is also a possibility for the metalwork.

Part of the issue I have at the moment is that my information is incomplete. I'm dealing with photos from the mid-80s, many of which aren't that good. So at the moment, it's all planning and sorting drawings. And with each photo I find, I can work out a bit more of the detail.

As an interesting aside, each Higman is unique, and the chap who built them used to destroy the drawings after each car was completed, so it's one heck of an exercise in reverse engineering.


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

simongt said:


> Oh indeed - ! There's a lot of modelling 'anoraks' out there who go to, in my view, ridiculous lengths to 'get it right' and will tell you that your model isn't quite the right shade of whatever colour for that particular year, or it doesn't have quite the right markings on etc., etc..
> My take is that it's MY model and I'll finish it in whatever way pleases me - !



It's exactly the same in the classic car scene. Which is basically this, but on a bigger scale.


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## Milkfloat (3 Feb 2021)

I am not a modeller, would it be cheating to 3D print the chassis and roll cage?


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I am not a modeller, would it be cheating to 3D print the chassis and roll cage?



I wish! But I don't have access to a 3D printer, so muggins will have to do it the traditional way


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## Milkfloat (3 Feb 2021)

If you are happy enough to create the CAD file yourself, either a kind CC'er will print it for you or worse case a commercial operation.


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> If you are happy enough to create the CAD file yourself, either a kind CC'er will print it for you or worse case a commercial operation.



I could do, I guess. 

But I will make a confession. I hate CAD with a vengeance - rather odd for someone with an engineering background. Even though I've generated complete race car and road car chassis models in various packages, I'm very much a pencil-and-paper girl.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I am not a modeller, would it be cheating to 3D print the chassis and roll cage?



Aaaarg... Heresy, heresy...


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## Andy in Germany (3 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> I could do, I guess.
> 
> But I will make a confession. I hate CAD with a vengeance - rather odd for someone with an engineering background. Even though I've generated complete race car and road car chassis models in various packages, I'm very much a pencil-and-paper girl.



I have CAD on my cabinet makers certificate having endured it in college, but I don't think the right way to make it work; fortunately they only recorded that I'd attended, not how bad I was.

In the end I was the only person in my year who designed my final piece with pencil and paper.


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## Illaveago (3 Feb 2021)

This is the little project which had me scratching my head .
It is Ferrari 512 M. I was going to make a 1/32 scale model to begin with . The side view looked straight forward, a bit like a Porsche 917 short tail . That's what I thought until I saw some overhead views . The air intakes for the rear radiators run through the doors into the rear 1/4 panel and up over the rear wheel arch and exit on the rear deck area.
I figured out that it would be best to make the centre section with the angled ducting and then fit an outer skin from the front wing to just beyond the door to cover it .
For ease of making It I am using balsa wood .


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## Phaeton (3 Feb 2021)

I have the simple solution, forget this manby pamby models, go full size, get out the angry grinder & welding torch


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## Illaveago (3 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> I have the simple solution, forget this manby pamby models, go full size, get out the angry grinder & welding torch


I've often thought about a pedal car .


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> I have the simple solution, forget this manby pamby models, go full size, get out the angry grinder & welding torch



Making replica classic Superstox from the 70s and 80s and then racing them is actually a thing. 

'sppose I *could* brush up my welding skills, but it's been a while...


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## Reynard (3 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I have CAD on my cabinet makers certificate having endured it in college, but I don't think the right way to make it work; fortunately they only recorded that I'd attended, not how bad I was.
> 
> In the end I was the only person in my year who designed my final piece with pencil and paper.



Although I must stress, I haven't any *RECENT* experience with CAD, so I've no idea whether the packages available are an improvement over the ones that used to drive me up the wall back in the day. I can do it, it's just that I don't really like it.


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

Illaveago said:


> This is the little project which had me scratching my head .
> It is Ferrari 512 M. I was going to make a 1/32 scale model to begin with . The side view looked straight forward, a bit like a Porsche 917 short tail . That's what I thought until I saw some overhead views . The air intakes for the rear radiators run through the doors into the rear 1/4 panel and up over the rear wheel arch and exit on the rear deck area.
> I figured out that it would be best to make the centre section with the angled ducting and then fit an outer skin from the front wing to just beyond the door to cover it .
> For ease of making It I am using balsa wood .



Sounds like the glue-soaked card route may be the one to go...


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

Well, I turned up a photo of a naked Higman. 

It's of a slightly later car that someone is restoring, and while it's somewhat different below the waterline, I can see the exact construction of the driver's cab and rollcage, and how the suspension pick-up points join the chassis.

What's really nice, is I wasn't too far off with my guesstimates.


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> It's of a slightly later car that someone is restoring,


Restoring? that looks like a real Triggers broom


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Restoring? that looks like a real Triggers broom



A lot of the older cars were a bit like that


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

I've finally put pencil, then craft knife to card. Starting with the tyres, as I've realised that I can't make the wheel as a single assembly.

Am using double thickness corrugated card to get the main carcass, and then will do the rest of the shape with ordinary cereal packet type stuff. You're not joking about the amount of glue I'm needing @Andy in Germany 

I haven't stuck myself to anything yet.

I'll use 2-part epoxy to smooth off the surfaces when this lot's had the chance to dry. And it's drying right solid.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> I've finally put pencil, then craft knife to card. Starting with the tyres, as I've realised that I can't make the wheel as a single assembly.
> 
> Am using double thickness corrugated card to get the main carcass, and then will do the rest of the shape with ordinary cereal packet type stuff. You're not joking about the amount of glue I'm needing @Andy in Germany
> 
> ...



I would double laminate the cereal packet stuff at least two thicknesses with the glossy side inwards. This makes it more solid but it absolutely _destroyed _knife blades...


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I would double laminate the cereal packet stuff at least two thicknesses with the glossy side inwards. This makes it more solid but it absolutely _destroyed _knife blades...



Ah. Well I bought a heavy duty craft knife in Wilkinsons yesterday. Because the small one I have definitely won't cope with some of the thicker card.

For this, I'm pre-cutting circular sections first, and then assembling. But may well have to do t'other way round for some of the other parts.


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## classic33 (4 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> Ah. Well I bought a heavy duty craft knife in Wilkinsons yesterday. Because the small one I have definitely won't cope with some of the thicker card.
> 
> For this, I'm pre-cutting circular sections first, and then assembling. But may well have to do t'other way round for some of the other parts.


Don't try forcing the blade to cut in one go.

Have you considered wheels of one of the cheaper kids toys?


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## Reynard (4 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't try forcing the blade to cut in one go.
> 
> Have you considered wheels of one of the cheaper kids toys?



Under normal circumstances, yes, I'd have trawled the charity shops.  The high street in Ely is almost nothing but charity shops - there's nine of them IIRC. But even then, there would've been no guarantee I'd find anything suitable. Superstox of that era run on 5 x 13 rims.

Besides, I now have the fun of making them. 

P.S. My craft knife is one of those small flimsy jobs with the snap-off blades. Nuff said. That's why I went and bought a decent one.


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## simongt (5 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> It's exactly the same in the classic car scene.


I watched a documentary about Bugattis many years ago and a Sunday 'grand display' on the waterfornt in Monaco, there were umpteen Bugattis of various models, all resplendent in their correct shade of Bugatti blue - except one; Daffodil yellow - ! The owner said 'My car, my choice.' I thought good for you - !


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## Reynard (6 Feb 2021)

Well, the plywood is no go. It just shatters when I try to cut it. 

But I *did* find another piece of fibreboard. And it's not warped. 

I now have something that is beginning to look like a Weller wheel with a tyre on it. As that seems to be coming together, I have cut the parts for the remaining three wheels in order to get all of them to the same stage. Bar three circular discs of fibreboard with a hole drilled through the centre. That'll be for tomorrow.

What I have done, is make a note of every stage in the construction of the first wheel, so that I can replicate it exactly for the others.

And I haven't glued myself to anything... YET.


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## Reynard (6 Feb 2021)

Actually, I have to say I'm really quite impressed at how strong the glue-laminated card really is.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Feb 2021)

My son is building a RC fishing boat from scratch. So far he has bought all the electrics for powering it. Blew up a few bits as in his words “ I don’t need a wiring diagram “  . He has now shown me one !! So with a bit of guidance we are getting there. At least he’s learning !!


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## Reynard (7 Feb 2021)

Right, first wheel and tyre is complete. Just need to wait for the glue coating to dry overnight, and then sand the tire sidewalls to smooth the profile. Will take some pics when I've got good daylight.

The real headache was working out how to get the curved sidewalls of the tyres. I went through a lot of ideas, iterations and cereal packet card before I found a suitable solution. Which ended up being rings of card that got progressively thinner. I'm going to have to eat a lot of breakfast cereal, I think... 

At least now I can build the remaining three as per instructions.

Oh, and each wheel & tyre assembly is made up of 22 individual pieces.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> Oh, and each wheel & tyre assembly is made up of 22 individual pieces.



I hear you: I once managed to make 12 uprights on a wood wagon consist of 192 individual pieces...

On the other hand, superglued card sands well so I can visualise how you are making the sidewalls. It's strange how such small details make such a big difference to the "correct" appearance of the finished model.


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## oldworld (8 Feb 2021)

I wasn't sure if I should start a separate thread on materials for model making but posted here instead.

I've always used what I had to hand and when needing plywood I'd usually find something in my stash. This is now nearly gone so I bought some thin ply prom the DIY store. It was of very poor quality and I ended up not using it. 
It was 3 ply, but a rubbish core sandwiched between two incredibly thin veneers.

First question is where can you get decent thin ply.

The second question has anyone had success using mdf/hdf boards?

I've tried it but found if you sand the surface it ends up woolly, not smooth like wood.


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## Reynard (8 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I hear you: I once managed to make 12 uprights on a wood wagon consist of 192 individual pieces...
> 
> On the other hand, superglued cars sands well so I can visualise how you are making the sidewalls. It's strange how such small details make such a big difference to the "correct" appearance of the finished model.



Yeah... I figured if I'm going to do this, I may as well do it properly. 

What's the best way to prep the surface for painting, btw? Anything I should be aware of? I intend to use artists acrylics. They're glue-based, so the pigment should, in theory, erm... stick.


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## Kestevan (8 Feb 2021)

Can't speak for cardboard etc, but the rule for painting miniatures with acrylics is to always use a good base coat. I can strongly recommend the Army Painter spray on primers. They're available in a number of colours and should give a good finish ready for top paint.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> Yeah... I figured if I'm going to do this, I may as well do it properly.
> 
> What's the best way to prep the surface for painting, btw? Anything I should be aware of? I intend to use artists acrylics. They're glue-based, so the pigment should, in theory, erm... stick.



I've generally used artists acrylics on card, although I have often primed a card model with a rattlecan as well, because they tend to have lots of metal and plastic details (read: Junk) stuck on so it was easier to prime the lot.

I tend to paint everything dark grey: I can tell if I've missed anything with this because most card isn't dark grey, and later it gives me a base that contrasts with the next colour, even if that's light grey ready for a lighter top colour. This way I'm less likely to leave a gap in the finish by mistake.


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## Reynard (8 Feb 2021)

Good to know that the paint I've got in will do.  

Likely I will be painting the individual parts / assemblies as I make them, and then sanding back lightly on surfaces that do need to be subsequently glued. Given the size of the model, combined with the complexity of some of the signwriting on the car, I think this is probably the easier way to go about this.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> Good to know that the paint I've got in will do.
> 
> Likely I will be painting the individual parts / assemblies as I make them, and then sanding back lightly on surfaces that do need to be subsequently glued. Given the size of the model, combined with the complexity of some of the signwriting on the car, I think this is probably the easier way to go about this.



I forgot to say that I often paint and then sand card models where I can; it means the surface has a much smoother finish and looks much better for it.


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## Reynard (8 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I forgot to say that I often paint and then sand card models where I can; it means the surface has a much smoother finish and looks much better for it.



You mean like get the base coat on, then sand it, then another coat of paint etc? A bit like doing the varnish on wood then.

Useful to know.


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## derrick (8 Feb 2021)

Not mine, But a mate scratch builds a few boats, 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhEuOsu1NU8


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## Reynard (8 Feb 2021)

Anyways, first pics. Apologies as to the state of the tablecloth...

Completed wheel, plus the components to finish the main structure of the other three.






Front of completed wheel.





Rear of completed wheel.





Haven't started sanding the tyre sidewalls yet, as it was far too cold in the garage to stay in there for very long. Plus there are some uneven sections on what will be the "tread" of the tyre that needs filling in a bit as well.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> You mean like get the base coat on, then sand it, then another coat of paint etc? A bit like doing the varnish on wood then.
> 
> Useful to know.



That's it yes. I suppose it's not that odd if you think about it, as card is basically wood in another form, so it reacts like wood.


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## oldworld (9 Feb 2021)

derrick said:


> Not mine, But a mate scratch builds a few boats,
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhEuOsu1NU8



That's a really brilliant bit of modelling, bow thrusters too!
I went to a model show at Sandown racecourse some years back and the standard of the modelling was astounding. This was before the use of laser cutting. 
It made you want to try harder or find another hobby.


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## Reynard (9 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's it yes. I suppose it's not that odd if you think about it, as card is basically wood in another form, so it reacts like wood.



No, it's not odd at all.  Both are different styles of composite material, but that use the same fibre type i.e. cellulose.

Card is essentially chopped strand mat to all intents and purposes, whereas wood, in its various guises, has those fibres in a much more directional layout.

Sorry, it's the engineer in me. I can't help it...


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## Reynard (12 Feb 2021)

Anyways, current progress... I now have all four wheels in various stages of build, with the one on the left completely finished:






I have also (finally) worked out what's going on with the rear suspension and am thinking about how to make the various parts. It's a live axle as fitted to the Ford Cortina / Mk1 & Mk2 Escort, four links, with the damper just forward of the hub on the lower link. The top of the damper attaches to the main chassis rail. There is also a Panhard rod in there (diagonally from axle to chassis), but I've not added it to the sketch.






Have decided after a lot of thought to go down the laminated card route for the chassis, simply because it's the easiest. I will cut each layer out in one piece, and I will add the wire pegs to take the bumpers and side irons as I'm doing this. Actually, I envisage taking the wires all the way across from one mount point to the other (cutting a channel in the card), because it will add strength to the structure as well.

And I've had a lightbulb moment when it comes to reproducing that complicated shape reliably multiple times... 

I was watching my mum prepare a lace pattern this afternoon, transferring the image from a printed scan to a piece of card. She secures the two together with a bit of masking tape, and then using a pin on a handle, puts a hole through both, and thereby reproducing the pattern exactly onto the card - on which she then works.

So I will do the same, using my chassis drawing as a template and putting a pin hole on all the main points. Then all I need to do is join the dots on the card with a pencil and then use a craft knife and steel ruler to cut it out. 

N.B. I have made a few modifications to the front of the chassis after having gotten my mitts on a couple of better photos.


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## Reynard (15 Feb 2021)

It's been way too cold to work on the wheels in the garage - glue dust in the house is most definitely NOT a good idea, so I've made a start on the chassis, ironwork and assorted gubbins. Used mum's lace making awl to prick through the drawing onto the card beneath, which gives me an eminently repeatable method for getting each layer of the chassis.

The first two layers. I'm going to need six of these. Oh, and I've nicked some card from mum's stash of lace making supplies, because I've run out of cereal packets!





The first three layers all laminated together. And yes, I *did* have a gluey mishap with a sheet of newspaper...  You can see where I've put reinforcing sections of wire at the stress raisers where the mount points for the ironwork meet the chassis "rails". That was done by carving out a channel with a knife and then glueing the 10mm sections of wire in. It was less faff in the end than running the wire all the way across, and just as effective. (Also, my supplies of suitable wire is limited, so I can't afford to be wasteful.)





I've also started making the bumpers and side irons - this is front bumper and left hand side iron. Gives me something to do while I wait for other bits of glue to dry. It was easier to use an awl to make the holes that fit over the wire pegs than to use a drill, as I had more control over the process.





All the wire pegs to take the bumpers and irons are in. Method was the same as for the reinforcing sections. The wire was pre-bent before fitting, but will only be cut to size at the assembly stage. You can see how the chassis platform compares to the drawing, as well as seeing where I've made modifications to the front of the car after getting my mitts on some better photos. I figured I'd rather take the pain of laminating the pegs into the structure at this stage, rather than drilling holes later on, as I didn't want to risk breaking something and then possibly having to start from scratch again. Although this, in its own way was also a fiddly process with the potential for things to go very wrong, but bonding the pegs directly into the layup is inherently stronger anyway, so was worth a few squeaky bum moments along the way.





And yes, it all fits together!  Well, so far, anyway. A mock-up with a completed wheel just to see how things are looking.





The next stage with the chassis is to cut the other three layers, laminate those together, then carve out the channels on the inside layer of that half before glueing the whole shebang together. And I need to finish the wheels...


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## Andy in Germany (16 Feb 2021)

Very impressive @Reynard. Would you mind if I post a few pictures of this on the model railway forum I'm part of? They will likely be very interested in what you are doing.


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## Reynard (16 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Very impressive @Reynard. Would you mind if I post a few pictures of this on the model railway forum I'm part of? They will likely be very interested in what you are doing.



Sure, go ahead 

Glad you think I'm doing ok.


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## Reynard (16 Feb 2021)

Spent some time last night going through the photos again, and I've realised that while I can make the two separate halves of the chassis platform, I can't actually stick them together until I've worked out what to do with the front suspension. It's a double wishbone, damper, stub axle assembly, where the pickup points for the upper wishbone, and the top damper mount attach to the main chassis rails.

The damper mount isn't a problem, but the wishbone requires more thought. Namely, do I laminate wire pegs into the platform to take the wishbone, or do I laminate the pegs into the wishbone and drill holes in the platform? I'm thinking it's more likely to be the latter, but until I've actually designed the parts, I'm not sure.

The friend who is giving me some technical help has managed to source some photos of the rear suspension from a similar car for me, which will be mightily useful.

And I've had to re-make the front bumper. OK, there wasn't anything inherently wrong with the first iteration thereof, but last night's cogitation made it clear that it was much easier in the long run to add some of the front ironwork at this stage rather than faff around with small, fiddly parts later on.


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## Reynard (22 Feb 2021)

A bit more progress - will update with some photos in the next day or so.

Have been working on the front suspension assembly. I've made the brake discs (they're about the size of a 2p coin!) and I've just about got my head around the stub axles. The issue with the latter is that I need to find a suitable compromise between realism and the part being sturdy enough. It's a fairly complicated structure to which several things attach (upper wishbone, lower wishbone, steering arm, brake disc and wheel), and I don't want the thing collapsing on me.

I've also made the upper half of the platform that makes up the main rails of the chassis. And I've been vindicated by waiting to join the two halves together. I wanted to sort out the front suspension first as I'm still not entirely sure how I'm going to attach the top wishbone to the chassis. But I now that I've finally got my mitts on what's going on with the rear suspension (thanks to a kind friend who is helping me on the technical side of the build), I *definitely* need to add some extra pegs.

On some Higmans, the upper link from the rear axle attaches directly to the side of the chassis, which definitely isn't the case with this particular car. Unfortunately, the photos I have weren't clear enough for me to see where it *does* attach to. But I now know that the alternative fitting is to a sponson located between the two rearmost nerf bars, so I shall go with that arrangement.

That now also means I can get on with building the rear axle. Out of knitting needles.

Oh, and all four wheels are now built. I just need to sand down the last one, and then I can paint them.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> A bit more progress - will update with some photos in the next day or so.
> 
> Have been working on the front suspension assembly. I've made the brake discs (they're about the size of a 2p coin!) and I've just about got my head around the stub axles. The issue with the latter is that I need to find a suitable compromise between realism and the part being sturdy enough. It's a fairly complicated structure to which several things attach (upper wishbone, lower wishbone, steering arm, brake disc and wheel), and I don't want the thing collapsing on me.
> 
> ...



You know, I _almost _understood that...


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## LeetleGreyCells (22 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> A bit more progress - will update with some photos in the next day or so.
> 
> Have been working on the front suspension assembly. I've made the brake discs (they're about the size of a 2p coin!) and I've just about got my head around the stub axles. The issue with the latter is that I need to find a suitable compromise between realism and the part being sturdy enough. It's a fairly complicated structure to which several things attach (upper wishbone, lower wishbone, steering arm, brake disc and wheel), and I don't want the thing collapsing on me.
> 
> ...


Looking up 'sponson' and 'nerf bars'...

I was doing quite well until I got to that sentence.

Sounds like a great project @Reynard , I for one can't wait to see the finished model.


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## Bazzer (22 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> A bit more progress - will update with some photos in the next day or so.
> 
> Have been working on the front suspension assembly. I've made the brake discs (they're about the size of a 2p coin!) and I've just about got my head around the stub axles. The issue with the latter is that I need to find a suitable compromise between realism and the part being sturdy enough. *It's a fairly complicated structure to which several things attach (upper wishbone, lower wishbone, steering arm, brake disc and wheel), and I don't want the thing collapsing on me*.
> .....


Have you considered making the individual parts and then strengthening them using clear resin? The resin can then be painted once dry, using acrylic paint. Two part resin takes longer to go off than epoxy, giving you time to deal with several parts at the same time.
You could then use the quicker drying two part epoxy to join the parts.

BTW, probably way before your time, but my mate I used to regularly go to stock car racing. Back in the days of Smith (snr) Wainman (snr) and Harrison.


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## Reynard (22 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> You know, I _almost _understood that...



LOL... It will be clearer once I post some pictures. 



LeetleGreyCells said:


> Looking up 'sponson' and 'nerf bars'...
> 
> I was doing quite well until I got to that sentence.
> 
> Sounds like a great project @Reynard , I for one can't wait to see the finished model.



Oops...  Might be a while before I finish it, but I hope it'll be worth the wait.



Bazzer said:


> Have you considered making the individual parts and then strengthening them using clear resin? The resin can then be painted once dry, using acrylic paint. Two part resin takes longer to go off than epoxy, giving you time to deal with several parts at the same time.
> You could then use the quicker drying two part epoxy to join the parts.
> 
> BTW, probably way before your time, but my mate I used to regularly go to stock car racing. Back in the days of Smith (snr) Wainman (snr) and Harrison.



I have been using 2-part resin for some of the fiddlier bits.  

It is, and it isn't. Before my time, that is. I've been into motorsport since I was seven, but circuit racing rather than stock cars. THAT moment at Paddock in the '82 British GP and I was so totally hooked...


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## MrGrumpy (22 Feb 2021)

He’s been busy blowing things up but it does work and it floats. Still got loads to do ...


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## Reynard (22 Feb 2021)

As promised, some photos and sketches...

Firstly, I now have both halves of the main chassis rails. I've marked out on the top surface where the edge of the rails are in real life and where the axle lines are located. I've done the same on the underside, so it's easier to know where to put things later.





Plus I've been sketching out the front suspension. It's a fairly standard racing car layout on the front - stub axle, brake disk, outboard shock, double wishbone, but the problem I have is that I don't have clear enough photos to get the exact design of the wishbones. Lower wishbone is far less of a problem than the top, but some guesstimation will be required.










The second sketch is actually 1:5 rather than the 1:10 that I'm working in. Basically it's easier to draw and measure. Spoke to the friend who is giving me techy help, and it turns out I've got the dimensions (especially for the damper length) bang on. Kind of rather pleased with that. 

Next, my diddy little brake discs, with a 2p piece for scale. They've since been sanded and base coated etc, and are ready to be painted. But I won't be doing that step just yet. I'm using a mix of titanium white and payne's grey to base coat parts, btw. Thanks for the advice on that @Andy in Germany - it really makes missed bits and flaws stand out. 





Been working on the stub axles these last few days. Made, built and discarded a prototype, as it was way over-engineered. The card I'm using sets really solid with the glue, so I can make the component much more true-to-type. Even so, the templates went through several iterations before I ended up with something I'm happy with. I don't dare make it spindlier, because it's a major structural component. I think I've got a good compromise between looking right and being sturdy enough to do the job. Of course, it will look much better when it's sanded and painted up.

So, right hand front stub axle, plus the parts to make the left hand one, bar a wooden peg and a fine upholstery pin. I've drilled the holes to take the steering arm and the lower wishbone, but not the one for the upper wishbone. I'm leaving that until I've got a design for the wishbone that I'm happy with, and that I can actually make.





Rear view of stub axle





And finally, the assembly of wheel, brake disc and stub axle. And, mirabile, after all that faffing, they all fit together! (edited to point out that they're not glued together yet - was just checking the fit!)





OK, some of the bits still need a little finishing and TLC, but right now, I don't have enough good daylight to paint / sand etc all the very fiddly bits. So I'm concentrating on the design work, making parts and making sure stuff fits together as it should. The rest can wait for now.


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## simongt (24 Feb 2021)

Probably the worst thing that can happen to any model maker is when you have a tiny wee part held in a pair of tweezers ready to attach to the model and suddenly - ping - ! And that's the last you ever see of that one, vital part to finish said model - ! 
Aarrgghh - !


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## Andy in Germany (24 Feb 2021)

simongt said:


> Probably the worst thing that can happen to any model maker is when you have a tiny wee part held in a pair of tweezers ready to attach to the model and suddenly - ping - ! And that's the last you ever see of that one, vital part to finish said model - !
> Aarrgghh - !



And it's always the vital, small, extremely delicate and usually black painted part that does that.


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## simongt (24 Feb 2021)

Happened yesterday; a hatch hinge from a 1.35 scale AFV suddenly did the ping thing and being about 2mm square and dark green - nae chance pal - !


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## Andy in Germany (24 Feb 2021)

simongt said:


> Happened yesterday; a hatch hinge from a 1.35 scale AFV suddenly did the ping thing and being about 2mm square and dark green - nae chance pal - !



Been there, done that. I guess one advantage of scratchbuilding is that I know I can make a replacement...


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## Reynard (24 Feb 2021)

Which is exactly why I've just finished building the second stub axle - the glue is drying as we speak - and then I can put it in the box of finished parts.

I also have to contend with a pair of nosey furry "assistants" who like to play with small, interesting things, so I don't dare leave tiny bits lying around unattended. Far too tempting. It's bad enough when I'm sewing... 

Never mind that I'm klutzy at the best of times...


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## Reynard (25 Feb 2021)

Anyways, I've pretty well much sorted out the rest of the chassis design. Or at least I think I have...

I've decided to make the lower wishbones for the front suspension integral with the bottom rails. Strictly speaking, it's not entirely correct, but it simplifies things a LOT by doing it that way. And by the time the car is actually built, I very much doubt anyone would notice. I've also added fillets to the rear section of the bottom rails - again, not quite correct, but it will prevent breakages on what are otherwise quite thin sections. Method of making will be same as the top rails.

The central core of the chassis is a block made from laminated card and ply and faced around the sides with card details - basically taking up the space where the radiator, bottom of the engine and the gearbox would be. On the actual car, the sides of the chassis is masked off with metal plating to protect those bits, and there is a sumpguard fitted too. So it seems like a logical way to do this, given that other than the driveshaft, differential and rear axle, I'm not modelling the whole drivetrain. It's down to a lack of information - although I do know the engine is a 2-litre Pinto unit.

And the block serves another purpose other than to keep the top and bottom rails at the required separation. I've designed things in such a way that the block is the datum point to which everything else fits and is relative to. Three wooden pegs will be fitted vertically through the center line of the block, and protruding from the top and bottom surfaces. There will be corresponding holes drilled in the sections for the top and bottom chassis rails - which means that the pegs will help locate and align all the various bits.

The upshot of this is that I can build the bottom half of the chassis i.e. lower rails, suspension, the bits of the drivetrain that I am actually modelling separately from the top half of the chassis and rollcage. This will definitely make the build easier from what I can see. And then, theoretically, it should just all slot AND fit together...


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## simongt (26 Feb 2021)

Reynard said:


> I also have to contend with a pair of nosey furry "assistants"


Yup, we have ten of them and two or three have the uncanny knack knowing EXACTLY when you're in a critical point of fitting a tiny or otherwise vital part to leap onto the workbench - !


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## Reynard (26 Feb 2021)

simongt said:


> Yup, we have ten of them and two or three have the uncanny knack knowing EXACTLY when you're in a critical point of fitting a tiny or otherwise vital part to leap onto the workbench - !



Actually, my current two are worse when I'm sewing...  One loves killing the tape measure, and the other likes to rearrange fabric laid out for cutting. As for spools of thread, buttons, tailor's chalk etc, well... 

Although I stopped painting in oils about a decade ago after having to de-paint a pair of cats who wanted in on the act. I ended up with a green-pointed black and a yellow-mitted blue...


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## Reynard (27 Feb 2021)

Major milestone reached! The two halves of the main (upper) chassis rails have now been glued together. 

I had to carve out all the channels where I'd laminated in wire pegs. And add two additional on each side (four in total) to take the top wishbones for the front suspension. The links for the rear axle attach elsewhere; two just above the lower rails and two below the y-shaped nerf bar.

The glue is currently curing. I used 2-part epoxy btw, and just as well, as it's a large surface area and a complicated shape.

Muchly relieved, as this had the potential to go very wrong.


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Bit of a techy thing regarding paint.

I've got some parts made out of metal that could do with a coat of paint. Will artist's acrylic bond to metal without flaking off? What's the best way of tackling this? Do I need to prepare the surface in any way prior to painting? I could get away with leaving as bare metal, but in the interests of achieving a good level of accuracy, I'd rather not.

Have also discovered that acrylic paint will not stay put on plastic no matter what you do. It flakes off if you so much as look at it. Problem solved by sanding down with wet & dry and then bonding said plastic parts between thin layers of paper. I did a test piece to check first, though.  

N.B. I chose plastic for those particular parts because the bits I used were already the shape I wanted. To make them from card would have been fiddly and frustrating.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Bit of a techy thing regarding paint.
> 
> I've got some parts made out of metal that could do with a coat of paint. Will artist's acrylic bond to metal without flaking off? What's the best way of tackling this? Do I need to prepare the surface in any way prior to painting? I could get away with leaving as bare metal, but in the interests of achieving a good level of accuracy, I'd rather not.
> 
> ...



Getting acrylic to stick to plastic and metal is near impossible as far as I'm aware. That's why I've often primed models made from card with a rattle can if they have metal or plastic parts. Flickr is being a pain as usual, but there is an example in this set of pictures. I also found that priming had the added advantage that it made the card fibres expand, so sanding them down made for a better finish. I tened to prime sparingly and use two very thin coats as I've found that you don't need too much to help the acrylic paint bond, but it is incredibly easy to obliterate detail.


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## simongt (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> acrylic paint will not stay put on plastic no matter what you do


Interesting this one on the basis that there must be different types of acrylic paints, as I've been using acrylics; brush on & rattle cans, on 'plastic' construction kits for several years now without any issues of adhesion at all.


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

simongt said:


> Interesting this one on the basis that there must be different types of acrylic paints, as I've been using acrylics; brush on & rattle cans, on 'plastic' construction kits for several years now without any issues of adhesion at all.



I think it likely depends on the actual type of plastic used.

The stuff I was trying to paint was a clear thermoplastic of some kind, so possibly a high density polythene. It cut and drilled easily and the large bit I was cutting from had a bit of give to it.

Suspect model kits are made out of thermoset, which are harder but more brittle, but easier to injection mould. And likely they have different surface properties.


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Getting acrylic to stick to plastic and metal is near impossible as far as I'm aware. That's why I've often primed models made from card with a rattle can if they have metal or plastic parts. Flickr is being a pain as usual, but there is an example in this set of pictures. I also found that priming had the added advantage that it made the card fibres expand, so sanding them down made for a better finish. I tened to prime sparingly and use two very thin coats as I've found that you don't need too much to help the acrylic paint bond, but it is incredibly easy to obliterate detail.



Is there anything in particular you would recommend?

I'll do a test piece on the metal later and see where it takes me. But just in case I come a cropper...


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## Andy in Germany (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Is there anything in particular you would recommend?
> 
> I'll do a test piece on the metal later and see where it takes me. But just in case I come a cropper...



Not really: I use whatever I happen to have, although I find light grey works better than white. Shake it very well using a timer for at least two minutes after the ball thingy inside has started rattling, I hold the can upside down when I shake it: I have no idea if it helps but it seems a good idea. 

I spray very lightly from about 30cm away with a side to side motion: it doesn't matter if you can see colour changes in the surface material through the primer, in fact that's when I usually stop. The "Car" above had a second coat because the card absorbs the paint, but I decided against a third because then I'd start losing details. I generally stop before I think I've put enough on, if you see what I mean.

Definitely do a test piece. Also test on broken bits to see how details come through.

I notice some rattlecans say they contain acrylic: I suspect part of my problem is that I use artists acrylics to paint models, so I need a primed surface.


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Not really: I use whatever I happen to have, although I find light grey works better than white. Shake it very well using a timer for at least two minutes after the ball thingy inside has started rattling, I hold the can upside down when I shake it: I have no idea if it helps but it seems a good idea.
> 
> I spray very lightly from about 30cm away with a side to side motion: it doesn't matter if you can see colour changes in the surface material through the primer, in fact that's when I usually stop. The "Car" above had a second coat because the card absorbs the paint, but I decided against a third because then I'd start losing details. I generally stop before I think I've put enough on, if you see what I mean.
> 
> ...



I only have artists acrylics to hand, and I can't think of anywhere locally that's currently open under lockdown restrictions that would have anything suitable in a rattle can. Will have a squiz on Amazon and the Bay of E later. Unless some old rattle cans of car paint I know are lurking in the garage might do the trick. One is burgundy and the other is a blue-green, but hey ho...

Am also in need of more wire, as I don't think I have enough left to finish the project - not when I take the rollcage and suspension linkages into account. One of the parts (well four identical parts) really ate into my supply. I need something that's like paperclip wire, but a heavier gauge and in decent lengths e.g. 12 inches.


----------



## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Anyways, another pictoral update...

As mentioned upthread, I sorted out the front and rear suspension geometry, which meant I could laminate in the last four wire pegs (for the front wishbones) into the chassis. And *finally* stick the two halves of the main rails together. I've yet to sand all the edges etc, but it's too damn cold in the garage to spend a lot of time in there, *and* I need good daylight for fiddly stuff...







I also made the solid block that will sit between the upper and lower chassis rails. As I'm not modelling the engine and gearbox, it was the easiest way to do this - and gives me a stronger structure. I've applied some card detailing to the block and drilled out the hole to take the driveshaft. I've photographed this upside down to how it would be in real life.






I've also completed the design for the lower chassis rails. I decided to make the lower front wishbone integral with the lower rails - a bit of a pain at this stage of the build, but a lot easier later on.






While I was sorting the front suspension geometry, one of the issues was the two upper wishbones, and how to make them. You can see how I thought me way through the iterations (from left to right) as I worked out whether laminated card with different sized layers would be best, or whether bent card would work. And the shape, size etc. The one on the right is roughly the shape and size required, but I can't make the parts yet until I've sorted out the lower rails. And the best way to get the shape I need is a mid of bent card and different laminations.






Then I've also been working on the shock absorbers, as I can't finalize some of the components on the rear axle assembly until I've made the shocks and checked for layout and clearances. I've been using 40mm lengths of 3mm diameter wooden knitting needle, and using strips of paper to get the shape I need. I found that paper glue (pritt stick type stuff) was ideal to keep the paper in place, and then a regular dab of superglue to harden the structure.






I've only drilled holes in the piston / reservoir end, as those will be pinned in place. The upper ends I've left plain for now, as they will most likely get bonded into the mount. Also, the shocks are a little bit too long - I'm working on the premise that it's easier to sand the top end down a bit than to find myself with a set that's too short. All of the components for the shocks are in place, they just need finishing off and finessing. The wee white doodads are what keep the spring in place - they're the plastic bits that were causing me painting headaches earlier...






And finally, all four wheels are completed at last. As are both front stub axles. The wheels are all sanded, shaped and ready for priming, although they still might want a little tweaking here and there. I've noticed that priming stuff highlights where things need to be worked on a bit...






And that's the sum of my latest update...


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## Andy in Germany (3 Mar 2021)

For reasons which I'm sure seemed sensible at the time, I've taken a couple of pictures of models being primed and posted them on my modelmaking blog, and one shows the sort of effect I aim for with primer:






The I have no idea how I managed to have a number "3" on a van with two ends, but that shows how thick the primer is when I paint over it: any random marks underneath are still visible.

You'll probably have to go over it a couple of times with the artists acrylics but you'll need to do that anyway...


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Maybe it's the third of three? 

Actually, that's very nice @Andy in Germany - I love the intricacy of the detail work.


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## randynewmanscat (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> So as not to clog up the Mundane News thread with the minutiae of my 1:10 scale Higman Superstox project, thought I'd start a new thread on the ins and outs of scratch-built models.
> 
> I have to confess that I'm a modelling newbie - my only previous experience is with a few cheap plastic kits well over three decades ago. You know, the ones that never fit together right, where the glue doesn't set completely and the paint and decals refused to stay put... My background is in automotive engineering, so the design work itself isn't the issue. Where I could use advice is in making that leap from drawings on a page to actually making parts. So methods, materials, hints and tips, that sort of thing, from heads wiser than mine.
> 
> ...


What would that chassis have been constructed from on the actual car, steel tubing? 
The rectangle on the drawing, is that a transcription of the full size chassis, a floor pan?


----------



## randynewmanscat (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> which corresponds to the 50 mm box section steel that it's made from in real life.


Always read the thread before commenting Randy! 
So you have various 5x5cm (1:1 scale) outrigger parts, what's the rectangular piece on the full size car?


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## randynewmanscat (3 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Anyways, another pictoral update...
> 
> As mentioned upthread, I sorted out the front and rear suspension geometry, which meant I could laminate in the last four wire pegs (for the front wishbones) into the chassis. And *finally* stick the two halves of the main rails together. I've yet to sand all the edges etc, but it's too damn cold in the garage to spend a lot of time in there, *and* I need good daylight for fiddly stuff...
> 
> ...


All becomes clear as old me reads the thread backwards. 
I doubt you have seen the back of scale model making. 
Obtain a razor saw, x-acto are good, for your next endeavour. 
If you don't have soldering skill then you might benefit to learn, it's not difficult at all, preparation is nearly all. 
Brass tube in square, round and oval is your friend in all things with a chassis under 50cm length.


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

randynewmanscat said:


> What would that chassis have been constructed from on the actual car, steel tubing?
> The rectangle on the drawing, is that a transcription of the full size chassis, a floor pan?



Yep, 50mm square section for the top rails and the roll cage, 30mm square section for the other metalwork. I'm not modelling the engine and gearbox, hence the solid block. Just makes life easier. 

I have these moments where I wonder what the hell I was thinking, as i have no prior modelling experience, but then, when something works, I'm like "you got this, girl!" 

And then I have mad thoughts about modelling his older brother's Superstox... 

And i can't blame that on the demon drink, as I'm teetotal


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## Reynard (3 Mar 2021)

Oh, and I was sent this pic of a slightly later (1988 as opposed to 1984) car. That steel sheet is going to end up as a sump guard - and it shows you where that solid block of mine goes.


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

A late evening update...

Have primed the wheels and I can now see where I need to tweak things. I definitely did get better at building them as I went along! 

On the downside, the paint scratches off with a fingernail. That's no real huhu at this stage, as all the wheels still need work to some degree or other. So I've caved in and just ordered the Tamiya light grey primer off Amazon. The blurb says for plastic and metal models, so this *should* cover all my bases.

If I'm going to do this, I may as well do it properly. Including the time spent scaling photos and doing design work, I've probably invested over a hundred hours in the project so far. Seems stupid to do things by halves, really...


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> "you got this, girl!"



I second this sentiment.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Some thoughts on painting and finishing:


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## Illaveago (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> A late evening update...
> 
> Have primed the wheels and I can now see where I need to tweak things. I definitely did get better at building them as I went along!
> 
> ...


It is amazing how a small model can sometimes take as much time to do as the real thing .


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## Illaveago (4 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Some thoughts on painting and finishing:



I wonder how many times he's dipped his brush into his coffee ?


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Some thoughts on painting and finishing:




I'll have a look at that, thanks.  Need to achieve a scuffed finish on parts of the car where paint has gone down to bare metal and / or acquired paint from a different car, so ideas on how to do it are fabby.


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

Illaveago said:


> It is amazing how a small model can sometimes take as much time to do as the real thing .



That's because much of the engineering and design work is still the same, regardless of the difference in scale.  I'm actually really enjoying this side of the project, as it's "home turf" for me.



Illaveago said:


> I wonder how many times he's dipped his brush into his coffee ?



I have done that so many times while painting. Albeit in my case, it's tea, not coffee.  I can safely attest that tea with watercolour or acrylic paint in it does not taste terribly nice.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Illaveago said:


> I wonder how many times he's dipped his brush into his coffee ?



I have frequently used coffee for weathering in set painting.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> *That's because much of the engineering and design work is still the same, regardless of the difference in scale*.  I'm actually really enjoying this side of the project, as it's "home turf" for me.



It is if you are an engineer to start with: most of that side of things is a deep mystery to me which is why I make "sketch" models.

It still takes ages though because I'm slow and procrastinate lots...




Reynard said:


> I have done that so many times while painting. Albeit in my case, it's tea, not coffee.



I was about to say the only reason I've never accidentally dipped a brush in coffee is that I don't drink the stuff...


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Maybe it's the third of three?



Highly likely I'm afraid.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> I'll have a look at that, thanks.  Need to achieve a scuffed finish on parts of the car where paint has gone down to bare metal and / or acquired paint from a different car, so ideas on how to do it are fabby.



I'm not sure how well the sandpaper buffing will work on a card base: using the "hairspray method" on the three wheeled racing car had only limited success.


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> It is if you are an engineer to start with: most of that side of things is a deep mystery to me which is why I make "sketch" models.
> 
> It still takes ages though because I'm slow and procrastinate lots...



Ah, it's not procrastination - its Quality Thinking Time. 

I said to my mum the other day that when this model was done, I would have enough information to build the actual car. She gave me that "don't you bloody dare" look...


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm not sure how well the sandpaper buffing will work on a card base: using the "hairspray method" on the three wheeled racing car had only limited success.



I'll probably sort out some test pieces and see what works and what doesn't. Failing that, I can always tackle it in the same way I'd do similar detail work on a painting i.e. with a dry brush, and holding it just below the ferrule so that I spread the hairs or bristles out.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> I'll probably sort out some test pieces and see what works and what doesn't. Failing that, I can always tackle it in the same way I'd do similar detail work on a painting i.e. with a dry brush, *and holding it just below the ferrule so that I spread the hairs or bristles out.*



Dry brushing is your friend for raised detail on a model. I'll have to try that hold on the next weathering project...


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## Reynard (4 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Dry brushing is your friend for raised detail on a model. I'll have to try that hold on the next weathering project...



It's a technique I use a lot when working with watercolour - gives a good impression of long grass or tyre tracks. The trick is to load the brush with as little paint as you can get away with in order to get the lines.


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## Archie_tect (4 Mar 2021)

Illaveago said:


> I wonder how many times he's dipped his brush into his coffee ?


If it's coffee rather than tea it must smell awful- just like the real thing!


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## randynewmanscat (5 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Oh, and I was sent this pic of a slightly later (1988 as opposed to 1984) car. That steel sheet is going to end up as a sump guard - and it shows you where that solid block of mine goes.
> 
> View attachment 576932


All becomes clear!


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## Reynard (7 Mar 2021)

Been working on building the back axle while I wait for the can of Tamiya primer to arrive. Again, it's been finding that balance between accuracy and building a part that is a) strong enough, and b) fits with everything else that attaches to it while still managing to look right regardless...

The beam of the axle is made from an 8mm diameter knitting needle. Most of the rest is laminated card and paper set in 2-part epoxy, then sanded to the final shape. The central core of the diff housing is a rolled paper tube, and then everything else has been stuck on to it - that was fun, playing with teeny, tiny pieces of card. I discovered that they have a horrible tendency to either a) stick to everything else other than where you want to stick it to or b) squirt out of your fingers and vanish somewhere in the pile of the carpet...

Oh yes, and most of the parts for the diff casing are assymmetric, which brought a whole different level of headaches to the build.

I've also laminated in a wire peg on the top of the diff casing which fits into a corresponding hole on the upper rails platform - hence the use of grey card in the structure, as it's easier to carve the channels for the wire. That's also the reason why there's a stepped flat surface on top rather than the same curved profile on the bottom of the axle. It gives me a bigger surface area for the glue when I finally stick the assembly in place.

N.B. The prop and hubs / brake drums aren't glued in yet, as I've got other things to sort out before I can do that. To give you an idea of scale, the brake drums are roughly the diameter of a 2p piece.


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## Andy in Germany (7 Mar 2021)

That's a fantastic result. I can imagine how much sanding it took. I also intend to nick your idea of two part epoxy as it must be healthier than superglue...

I wish my models looked that neat at that stage.


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## Reynard (7 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's a fantastic result. I can imagine how much sanding it took. I also intend to nick your idea of two part epoxy as it must be healthier than superglue...
> 
> I wish my models looked that neat at that stage.



Thanks  I'm really pleased with how that came out.

I'm actually beginning to prefer the epoxy for the fiddlier stuff because it takes that little bit longer to cure. Makes things a bit less fraught when compared to superglue.

Downside of epoxy is that once it's mixed, you've got to use it.


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## Reynard (10 Mar 2021)

Mmmmm, question for you @Andy in Germany if I may.

How did you do the rivets on your steam-powered tank model? I need to add a similar kind of detail to some parts on the car, and I don't want to be messing around with ever smaller pieces of card...


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## Andy in Germany (10 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Mmmmm, question for you @Andy in Germany if I may.
> 
> How did you do the rivets on your steam-powered tank model? I need to add a similar kind of detail to some parts on the car, and I don't want to be messing around with ever smaller pieces of card...




Lots of 10mm pins with a 1mm head. You can see them here before painting.


----------



## Reynard (10 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Lots of 10mm pins with a 1mm head. You can see them here before painting.



Thanks 

Pins and tacks I have aplenty, so I'm bound to find something I can use.


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## Reynard (10 Mar 2021)

Another bit of an update...

Spent the last couple of evenings making the various suspension linkages needed - two for the front (lower wishbone) and four for the rear. They're made (mostly) from glue-soaked paper rolled around a wire core. The short ones on the left are for the front, though since the photo was taken, they've lost the little round doodads next to the wire pegs, as they didn't look right and didn't fit very well along the sides of the chassis. The other four are the links that connect the axle to the chassis.






Today, I put my big girl pants on and cut the five layers for the lower chassis rails. I'd been putting it off for a while, but have got to the point where I had to build this part of the car.






The layer in the middle is of softer card which is easier to cut the channels for the various wire pegs - two on the front wishbone that will connect to the stub axle, plus the suspension links bonded in at this stage. It was easier to do that now than to try and drill holes into thin sections at a later stage where things could go very wrong.






Really pleased with how this has come out, although I've had my first instance of "oops, this doesn't quite fit" on this build with the suspension linkages I've bonded in. I had to trim the edges of the chassis a little to get things sorted, but the rest is nothing a bit of sandpaper won't solve...






I still need to mark out where the solid block goes, and the holes to take the locating pins, plus where the vertical bits of ironwork connect the upper and lower rails.


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## Reynard (12 Mar 2021)

Well, the primer arrived the other day, and a fresh supply of wire turned up at lunchtime, so I'm all set for that.

One hitch I've encountered, is that if I use superglue in large quantities (e.g. the chassis rails), it makes me really wheezy.  Like ridiculously wheezy. I spent most of yesterday evening and the whole night coughing and spluttering like a 60-a-day smoker... Fortunately, I reckon that by the time I get to the bodywork, I should be able to work outside.

So I spent my modelling time today well away from any glue, and turned my attention to the design of the roll cage instead. From the photos, it looks relatively straightforward, but when you actually start putting it down onto paper, you realize that, actually, it isn't. Unlike the rest of the chassis, very little of the cage is in the same plane, so there are all sorts of angles and directions to contend with.

I have two sections at the front and in the middle that *are* in the same plane, and which also sit perpendicular to the chassis rails. Plus I also know the shape and inclination of the roof. So I can make those pieces easily, and then use them as a reference to build the rest of the roll cage - although I do think that a jig of some kind will be necessary to hold the whole shebang together while I do that. And rather than driving myself potty trying to create some of the awkward angles and joins from the get-go, I will just make lengths of the appropriate square section (either 3mm or 5mm), and then just cut and sand to make each piece fit individually.

The other issue I've got to contend with is working out where to laminate in wire pegs to strengthen the structure and then secure the roll cage to the upper rails. If I stay true-to-life, I'll be drilling holes perilously close to the edge of the chassis, which, for obvious reasons, I'd rather not do. I need to bring those holes inboard, which will mean adding extra sections to the bottom of the roll cage - but it's a compromise I'm happy to make. By the time I've got the bodywork on and the seat and dashboard in, I don't think anyone will notice. Plus I'll get a bigger surface area to spread the glue on, which can only be a good thing.

On another note, I've had a look in my box of completed parts, and am more than pleasantly surprised at the number of bits I've already made. OK, most still need work done to them, but right now, I'm concentrating on making all the parts and ensuring that they all fit together properly.

And I've also discovered that the weird shadow under the car is, as I thought, a sump guard. So I'll have to make one of those too...


----------



## Reynard (17 Mar 2021)

Well, it's official, I am rather allergic to superglue. I've had a few glue-free days, and I'm feeling way more chipper. The cough has almost gone, and so has the rash on my hands and neck. Am definitely going to have to re-think some of my modelling strategy - will probably use 2-part epoxy for the roll cage instead, except for where I can't get away from using superglue i.e. where I have to laminate pins in etc.

But that's for a little bit further down the line, although I have made the jig for the roll cage. Right now, I'm concentrating on getting the parts sorted for everything below the level of the main chassis rails - there's actually very little left, just the front brake calipers, steering column, a few small bits of ironwork and the two suspension pickups for the rear axle.

I can't do the latter until I have completed the shock absorbers, because I have to work out clearances - and how to mount the shocks to the suspension pickups. I also need to work out how to mount the shocks on the front suspension as well.

I have been tidying up the shocks in preparation for priming - the can of primer and a fresh supply of wire have arrived. I decided to redo the springs, as the old wire I had was a bit wonky and lumpy, and, as a result, the springs weren't as neat as I would like. The new springs are much better. I've also trimmed all the end caps for the springs to size and sanded them down, so those are looking a lot better now too.

As far as new parts, I've made the steering rack. Superstox (and a lot of stock cars) use a Morris Minor steering rack, so easy enough to google for pictures and dimensions. As expected, modelling the rubber "gaiters" was fun - I ended up messing around with a hole punch! I'm really pleased as to how the rack has turned out. It still needs to be coated in glue in places, but that can wait.






And it looks good in situ, too. I know it's all a bit wibbly wobbly and wonky, but nothing is glued in place, and some parts still need to be finished off anyway. It's just a check to see how things fit together etc.


----------



## Reynard (20 Mar 2021)

Anyways, a bit of a techy question...

Can any of you gents recommend a modelling filler for me?

I need to finish off the wheels prior to painting. Priming has highlighted some flaws that, well, need filling and smoothing off, and it seems like the logical way to go.

Anyways, the Tamiya primer seems to be working well on the bits I've done so far, albeit a bit less so on the galvanized wire I've used for the shock absorber springs. But several light coats should do the trick before I put on the paint, I reckon.


----------



## Bazzer (20 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Been working on building the back axle while I wait for the can of Tamiya primer to arrive. Again, it's been finding that balance between accuracy and building a part that is a) strong enough, and b) fits with everything else that attaches to it while still managing to look right regardless...
> 
> The beam of the axle is made from an 8mm diameter knitting needle. Most of the rest is laminated card and paper set in 2-part epoxy, then sanded to the final shape. The central core of the diff housing is a rolled paper tube, and then everything else has been stuck on to it - that was fun, playing with teeny, tiny pieces of card. I discovered that they have a horrible tendency to either a) stick to everything else other than where you want to stick it to or b) squirt out of your fingers and vanish somewhere in the pile of the carpet...
> 
> ...





Reynard said:


> Another bit of an update...
> 
> Spent the last couple of evenings making the various suspension linkages needed - two for the front (lower wishbone) and four for the rear. They're made (mostly) from glue-soaked paper rolled around a wire core. The short ones on the left are for the front, though since the photo was taken, they've lost the little round doodads next to the wire pegs, as they didn't look right and didn't fit very well along the sides of the chassis. The other four are the links that connect the axle to the chassis.
> 
> ...





Reynard said:


> Well, it's official, I am rather allergic to superglue. I've had a few glue-free days, and I'm feeling way more chipper. The cough has almost gone, and so has the rash on my hands and neck. Am definitely going to have to re-think some of my modelling strategy - will probably use 2-part epoxy for the roll cage instead, except for where I can't get away from using superglue i.e. where I have to laminate pins in etc.
> 
> But that's for a little bit further down the line, although I have made the jig for the roll cage. Right now, I'm concentrating on getting the parts sorted for everything below the level of the main chassis rails - there's actually very little left, just the front brake calipers, steering column, a few small bits of ironwork and the two suspension pickups for the rear axle.
> 
> ...


Nice detail. Particularly on the diff and steering rack. 

Re the modelling filler, I don't know if it is possible to buy small tubs of filler for modelling, but have you any car or wood filler? The latter comes in small tubs at, for example, B&Q. I don't know for certain, but would expect it to take acrylic paint.


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## Reynard (20 Mar 2021)

Bazzer said:


> Nice detail. Particularly on the diff and steering rack.



Thanks. 



> Re the modelling filler, I don't know if it is possible to buy small tubs of filler for modelling, but have you any car or wood filler? The latter comes in small tubs at, for example, B&Q. I don't know for certain, but would expect it to take acrylic paint.



Mmmm, I hadn't thought of that. If I do have any of either lurking in the garage, it'll be beyond ancient and not up to much, but I'll have a gander in Wilkinsons on Monday as I have to pop in there for a sack of potting compost.


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## Reynard (21 Mar 2021)

Would something like this work? 

https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-ready-mix-fine-surface-filler-330g/p/0077958


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## Andy in Germany (21 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Would something like this work?
> 
> https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-ready-mix-fine-surface-filler-330g/p/0077958



I guess so. I've not used filler with card to be honest, but they use similar stuff at work to cover holes or blemishes in wooden toys before they're painted and it works pretty well.


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## MontyVeda (21 Mar 2021)

Ditto what Andy in Germany said.

That sort of wood filler is easy to sand and dries soft enough (like hard chalk) that you could easily scratch details in with a little nail if required.

I've been using Wilko's own no more nails type adhesive around the inlet of my dust collector (more as a finish than a glue). It smooths out nicely with a wet finger/knife and dries very plasticy and hard, if that's the finish you want. It also keeps very well, just finished off a tube i opened about 4 years ago.


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## Reynard (21 Mar 2021)

Sounds like both would work. Neither are expensive, so might buy a tube of each and see what works best in terms of shaping, sanding and priming. (I see a head-to-head test coming on here...)

I'll probably want to use something for smoothing off the edges of the chassis as well, as I made a few mistakes on the upper rails, and sanding will only get me so far...


----------



## MrGrumpy (21 Mar 2021)

Sons trawler is coming on. It floats the RC works , it’s even got a huge net out the back !


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## Reynard (21 Mar 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> View attachment 579797
> 
> 
> View attachment 579798
> ...



Looking good 

That kind of project would be a no-no here, what with the net and stuff. Cats and things made with string do not mix very well...


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## Reynard (22 Mar 2021)

Hmm, well one step forward, two steps sideways...

Went into town this afternoon, and the DIY and car care shelves in Wilkinsons are pretty bare, so there wasn't much choice when it came to filler. I didn't see the point of buying a massive tub. So ended up with a small tube of Ronseal white wood filler, which hopefully should do the job, given the laminated card acts a lot like wood anyway.

The other sideways step is the paint. I've now got a primer that coats everything well and stays put on the parts. But now, the paint I have (professional quality artists acrylics) doesn't want to stick to the wretched primer. Aaaargh! Was trying to paint up the components for the shock absorbers prior to assembly, but the paint just flakes off. And I gave everything two coats as well... 

Looks like I may well have to bite the bullet and get a small selection of modelling enamels.

The step forward has been solving the slight issue with the prop shaft. I'd used a section of wooden knitting needle, but when I checked the rear axle assembly with the prop in situ, the axle wasn't sitting totally perpendicular to the chassis - which will cause problems when fitting the suspension linkages. Didn't fancy faffing around with a file etc and risk breaking things, so changed tack completely and made a new shaft out of rolled paper with a wire core. That's got just enough give in it to sort the alignment issues.


----------



## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2021)

Reynard said:


> Hmm, well one step forward, two steps sideways...
> 
> Went into town this afternoon, and the DIY and car care shelves in Wilkinsons are pretty bare, so there wasn't much choice when it came to filler. I didn't see the point of buying a massive tub. So ended up with a small tube of Ronseal white wood filler, which hopefully should do the job, given the laminated card acts a lot like wood anyway.
> 
> ...



I've been experimenting with some car filler this very day on an unusual project that may be featured here if it works. The stuff pongs bigly.

What primer are you using? I use cheapo rattle cans for car spraying off'f the Bay of E. My acrylics come from Lucas and Amsterdam and never had a problem.

Maybe try Revell of Vallejo acrylics?

As an aside, I've realised that some of your methods for making springs will work in a smaller scale if I use fine wire which will come in very handy for a future project...


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## numbnuts (22 Mar 2021)

View: https://youtu.be/4cTC8P2MzLs


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## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2021)

numbnuts said:


> View: https://youtu.be/4cTC8P2MzLs




Most enviromnentally friendly Audi ever; by a long way.


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## Reynard (22 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been experimenting with some car filler this very day on an unusual project that may be featured here if it works. The stuff pongs bigly.
> 
> What primer are you using? I use cheapo rattle cans for car spraying off'f ebay. My acrylics come from Lucas and Amsterdam and never had a problem.
> 
> ...



Heh, tell me about car filler pong. I've done my share of automotive repairs over the years...

I'm using the Tamiya fine surface primer for plastic & metal - bought it because the acrylic wouldn't stick to the plastic and metal parts I made, or the ones that have been completely coated in glue. My acrylics are a mixture of Daler Rowney System 3 and Windsor & Newton Finity, and have been using them neat rather than diluted down with water.

In three weeks, the shop in town selling modelling supplies will re-open, so I can get some paint / advice.

Been looking at some paints online, and why, oh why won't they give the pigments their proper names, like cadmium red or cerulean or payne's grey or yellow ochre and stuff... At least with those names, I know what shade the stuff is...


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## Reynard (27 Mar 2021)

Because of the paint issue, I can't really do much on the car below the main rails, so I've turned my attention to the stuff "up top" so that I'm not twiddling my thumbs.

The next stage there is the roll cage. It looks straightforward, but isn't, as there are sections of it that aren't all in the same plane and / or have some fairly complex shapes. Made a jig out of a piece of old floorboard, with the cage footprint marked out, and holes to take the wire pegs, so that I can work separately to the chassis, and then, eventually, simply drop the completed driver's cab onto the rails.

Started out by making a set of drawings (more about that later) and then got stuck into the two pieces that are totally perpendicular to the chassis rails. The bit at the front of the cage is fairly simple i.e. rectangular, hole in the middle and with fillets in the corners, so I just drew as many layers as I needed on a piece of card, cut them out and stuck them together, laminating in the two locator pegs on the bottom as I went along. The other section is much more complicated - a sort of hexagon with sections cut out of it, so I made that using the drawing as a template and then pricking through that onto the card below with mum's lace making awl. This section got modified during the making to take the slope of the roof rails into account, so the sections got progressively shorter with each layer. Plus the usual wire pins got laminated in.

I've been using 2-part epoxy rather than superglue (except for the wire pegs - epoxy doesn't hold them in place well enough) to avoid the allergy issues. Epoxy is definitely messier than superglue, and takes longer to dry. And then there's that fine line between mixing enough glue to do what you need to do, but it not starting to set on you...

Needed to make some of the sections that slope in two different directions, so the layers for those were cut to size for one of the angles, laminated with paper glue (pritt stick) and then, using the drawing as a guide, I could create the other angle by pushing the layers into position before the glue dried. The ends were secured with a dab of superglue, then later, when dry, the glue needed to soak the edges was applied outside.

The roof rails were made that way, as were the two pieces at the front of the cab, and some of the bits that surround what would be the fuel tank in real life. Some of these pieces were stuck to the relevant internal bulkheads etc - it improves the structural integrity of the sections, plus it means I don't have the nightmare of small parts floating around where they might be lost.

All that's left to make are two small pieces that take the rear wing and the side sections of the cab - the latter's going to be fun (NOT!) as it's curved.

I haven't glued the roll cage yet - everything's held together by blu-tac - because I need to tidy up all the parts first, then make the cab fixtures and fittings i.e. seat, dash, steering wheel first. Really don't want to be in the situation where I can't get them into the completed cage...

Also, just as well I hadn't glued the cage together, as I had a bit of a brain fart when doing the drawings, and hence, that mistake got carried through to the jig and the roof rails. The cage looked fine on the jig, but when I plonked it on the chassis and offered up the bonet template, I realized that instead of subtracting 16mm on one section, I'd added it, so the whole thing was too long.  Got away without having to make a new roof - I just shortened the one I had by the required 16mm. It's a couple of mm too narrow at one end now, but it's no biggie, as the bodywork will sit on top of that, and you won't see the oops.

Anyways, a few views of the roll cage as is. It's on the chassis rather than the jig, and the white bit of card is the template for the bonnet.































And then I thought to myself, why not mock up the parts I've made so far to see how it looks. Sans front and rear suspension though, but you kind of get the gist. And you know, it's starting to look like a racing car...


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## Andy in Germany (27 Mar 2021)

Lovely work Reynard.


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## Reynard (27 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Lovely work Reynard.



Thanks xxx


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## Reynard (30 Mar 2021)

Currently working on the bonnet, as I can work outside when it comes to the superglue given this window in the weather. Although I'm still doing as much as I can with the epoxy, as even outside, I'm still encountering allergy issues. Hey ho...

This stage also includes modelling the air filter and the exhaust manifold. Knowing how my luck runs, it was inevitable that the exhaust manifold appears to be a custom job rather than something off-the-shelf. Which means I can't dig up any additional reference pictures, and have to go purely by what I see on the photos. So some of it will have to be a bit of a guesstimate...

It's irritating, because there are loads of places that make race / rally exhausts for Ford Pinto engines, but nothing I've seen matches the configuration on this particular Higman.

And adding to my woes, it's a 4-1 manifold, which is going to be... interesting... to model.


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## MontyVeda (30 Mar 2021)

Looking great.

Have you tried mixing the acrylic paint with a bit of PVA to see if that makes it stick?

I've absolutely no idea if it would work, but I'd definitely give it a try... but then again, it might give it a glossy finish you mightn't want.


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## Reynard (30 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Looking great.
> 
> Have you tried mixing the acrylic paint with a bit of PVA to see if that makes it stick?
> 
> I've absolutely no idea if it would work, but I'd definitely give it a try... but then again, it might give it a glossy finish you mightn't want.



Oh... Wood glue... I have a bottle in the garage (which I hope hasn't dried out), so always worth doing a test-piece.  Although I'd hate to think what that will do to my brushes if that ends up working - sort of on a similar level to watercolour masking fluid, I'd imagine... 

Artists acrylics give a glossy finish unless you mix them with a matt finish medium.


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## MontyVeda (31 Mar 2021)

so long as you clean the brushes they should be fine. PVA is water based so a bit of washing up liquid and water should be ideal.


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## Bazzer (31 Mar 2021)

Have you tried using the acrylic without a primer on a spare piece? 
A few years back I did a relief carving for my daughter of the Staff of Hermes in an offcut of mahogany. - She worked in medicine at the time. I bought some acrylic from an art shop to help it stand out and primer wasn't used. It is still as I gave it to her.


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## Reynard (31 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> so long as you clean the brushes they should be fine. PVA is water based so a bit of washing up liquid and water should be ideal.



That's on hold... The only useable PVA glue I have on hand is pink glitter glue. I'm not sure that's entirely suitable...


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## Reynard (31 Mar 2021)

Bazzer said:


> Have you tried using the acrylic without a primer on a spare piece?
> A few years back I did a relief carving for my daughter of the Staff of Hermes in an offcut of mahogany. - She worked in medicine at the time. I bought some acrylic from an art shop to help it stand out and primer wasn't used. It is still as I gave it to her.



Yes - that was my starting point. The paint flakes off because the glue makes the surfaces non-porous. Hence the primer in a bid to solve the problem.

Acrylics need that porous surface in order to "stick" - which is why it works fine on wood, paper, fabric etc...


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## Reynard (2 Apr 2021)

I took the opportunity of this week's good weather to be able to work outside and make a section that needed the use of a LOT of glue - including a fair bit of superglue. Namely the framework which the bonnet will sit on and to which the exhaust manifold attaches to. If I didn't have the exhaust to worry about, I could've done this much more simply, but as the exhaust is external and only attaches at two points (engine and a bracket on the right hand side of the driver's cab), I had no choice but to create a much more substantial structure.

First step was a comprehensive set of drawings (not shown) to get all the shapes and dimensions down pat. And as has been the case with this right from the get-go, I have to deal with various changes of profile as well. That led to the creation of a lot of individual pieces of card (a mix of cereal packet card and a piece from an old board-backed envelope) that had to be cut out, then slots cut into them before the whole thing just fits together. Fiddly, yet surprisingly simple and effective. And would've been fine as was if I didn't have to deal with that dratted exhaust...







Next, I added the spacers (see above) along the sides, leaving spaces where the exhaust has to go, and I also cut away the section at the roll cage end to make the footwell of the cab / cockpit.

Then it was off outdoors to "fill the holes" as it were, in order to provide a solid section to which to attach the engine "block" and exhaust manifold, as well as add some reinforcing webs wherever needed. A whole lot of 14mm square sections of corrugated card were used for this, although about 2/3 way through I had to switch from superglue to epoxy, as even outside I was having problems - not so much with the fumes given off, but with the allergy side of things. Hey ho, what wouldn't I give for a decent fume cabinet...

Top view





Bottom view





Once this had all set rock hard, then it was the squeaky bum moment - cutting away the bit where the engine would be on the actual car. The bit where you pray things won't fall apart on you as soon as you stick the scissors in... But, mission accomplished, and this is what I ended up with:






Theoretically, I could've left it like that, as under the bodywork, no one would be any the wiser. But in that state it offends my sensibilities, so, on with a top layer, which not only meets the whole aesthetics thing, but also adds to the structural integrity. Plus I tidied and reinforced the edge of the cut out as well. I used 2-part epoxy for this stage, as I needed the wiggle room to allow me to get all the pieces of card lined up correctly.

One thing I discovered is that partially-set epoxy is great for rolling into fine threads and used for filling in gaps, or rolling into balls and poking those into wiggly corners to reinforce them. Although I do still need to sand down the odd rough edge as a result...






And then, onto the nose cone. On the actual car, this is a hollow section, which acts as a "scoop" for the radiator, and while I'm not modelling the radiator, this still has to look right. To make things harder, there's a change of profile in the shape as well, so I had to compromise and build the first part of it integral with the main body so that it wouldn't fall apart. Have to say, this bit was fiddly as I made the "skin" in one piece (well, two if I want to be pedantic, as it's made of two layers of card), creased it and then folded it to create the shape before finally gluing everything in place.






Another piece I have to make at this stage is the air filter, as the actual bodywork fits around it - well, the sides, as the top sits proud of the bodywork. Which means it has to be stuck to this. It's ridiculous how such a small part can take such a long time to make. I started at midnight thinking "oh, this will take me 20 mins, I'll do this before I go to bed" and then, suddenly two hours later... 

Didn't take any pics while I was making it, but it's essentially three oval rings of card glued together, plus an additional spacer on one long side, as while the bonnet slopes, the top of the filter sits horizontally. Hence the need to create the angle. The ribs of the filter are made with waxed upholstery twine, wrapped around the rings with the help of a needle just to make things easier, and then glued into place. Then top and bottom added, plus two small glass beads stuck to the top in lieu of the wing nuts that hold the filter closed. Sorry, not the best pic, but with a 2p piece for scale






And then, everything in situ. I've not glued these pieces together yet, simply because I don't quite trust myself to not have made a booboo somewhere along the line. I'll do this once I get to making the bodywork proper. It's more a peace-of-mind thing really...






And a quick preview of how it looks on the chassis. Just because, you know...


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## Reynard (9 Apr 2021)

Well, I managed (I think) to solve the headache of the exhaust construction thanks to a moment of epiphany - namely curtain wire.

Bendy but boingy, I fed a length of stiff wire through the sections, and then whatever bend I put in would stay put. A piece of wood with four holes forms the engine "block" and the pipes are bonded into that. As I thought, the exhaust was a custom job, so I only had the photos of the car to go by. Hence a certain amount of guesstimating was involved.

The hardest part was making the 4-1 collector. Talk about a complicated shape. I ended up making an open-topped box to take the four manifold pipes, glueing a paper tube to the closed end, and building up the cone with layers of paper and glue. The last stage was carving the final shape with a very fine blade.In contrast, the main pipe and the silencer / back box were a pretty straightforward construct of wire, rolled paper and card. 






The last stage was fixing the collector to the manifold section (with epoxy) and then using wood filler to fill the gaps and bring the profile of the section to something approximating what's seen on the photos.






The manifold and main pipe aren't bonded together yet, and the back box, while fixed in place by the sections of rolled paper either side, isn't stuck in place just yet either. That's because I need to get the angles of the main pipe and back box right once I've sorted the bodywork.






In the final photo shows how the exhaust fits into the engine bay - and the logic behind the construction of the bonnet / bodywork support. I'm really happy with the result. Only thing I couldn't spray the exhaust with primer, as it was raining, and a rattle can isn't the best thing to use indoors...






As an aside, I'm really impressed with the tube of Ronseal wood filler that I bought. It seems to stick very well to everything, even curtain wire, is easy to handle and shape, sets right hard and sands to a good finish.


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## MontyVeda (10 Apr 2021)

Awesome! I love the fact you're using cereal boxes.

nothing like the quality of your build, but years ago a made a model FG van as a gift for a friend...





(image for illustrative purposes only)

...out of cornflakes boxes (she was a former new age traveller and lived in one).

Apart from painting the handles on the wrong side of the doors, it looked pretty good.
When people asked how I learned how to make such a thing, I always replied "Blue Peter".


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## Andy in Germany (10 Apr 2021)

Reynard said:


> Well, I managed (I think) to solve the headache of the exhaust construction thanks to a moment of epiphany - namely curtain wire.
> 
> Bendy but boingy, I fed a length of stiff wire through the sections, and then whatever bend I put in would stay put. A piece of wood with four holes forms the engine "block" and the pipes are bonded into that. As I thought, the exhaust was a custom job, so I only had the photos of the car to go by. Hence a certain amount of guesstimating was involved.
> 
> ...



Beautiful work as ever @Reynard It's reminding me that I really could do a lot of my modelmaking using card, in fact it may have some advantages.


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## Reynard (10 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Awesome! I love the fact you're using cereal boxes.
> 
> nothing like the quality of your build, but years ago a made a model FG van as a gift for a friend...
> 
> ...



Ah, that was a really cool thing to do  I bet it looked good. 

I'm also using some of mum's lace making card (that she sticks her patterns to). Shhhhhhhhhhh, she has no idea I've, shall we say, borrowed, some from her stash.  That's the light tan-coloured stuff, btw.

And yes, Blue Peter.


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## Reynard (10 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Beautiful work as ever @Reynard It's reminding me that I really could do a lot of my modelmaking using card, in fact it may have some advantages.



Thanks 

Card, art paper and packaging is pretty well much what I have to hand - well, after the plywood / fibreboard idea got consigned to the dustbin of history anyway. A girl's got to be inventive in lockdown. 

One thing I've learnt is that different types of card and paper definitely behave in different ways, and some types are better for particular tasks than others. Shouldn't come as a surprise really...


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## Profpointy (10 Apr 2021)

Reynard said:


> I think it likely depends on the actual type of plastic used.
> 
> The stuff I was trying to paint was a clear thermoplastic of some kind, so possibly a high density polythene. It cut and drilled easily and the large bit I was cutting from had a bit of give to it.
> 
> Suspect model kits are made out of thermoset, which are harder but more brittle, but easier to injection mould. And likely they have different surface properties.



Traditional model kits (airfix and such) are made of polysterene, which is thermoplastic, hence can be repeatedly remelted . Thermosetting plastics are things like bakelite which can't be remelted.


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## Andy in Germany (10 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Awesome! I love the fact you're using cereal boxes.
> 
> nothing like the quality of your build, but years ago a made a model FG van as a gift for a friend...
> 
> ...



I meant to ask: what scale is that @MontyVeda?


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## MontyVeda (10 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I meant to ask: what scale is that @MontyVeda?


the van in the image? No idea... just a picture of an FG i hastily found on google.

the model I made? no idea either. I just worked it from a photo of her old van and not really 'to scale' at all. It was about 10-12" long I recall.


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## Reynard (10 Apr 2021)

Profpointy said:


> Traditional model kits (airfix and such) are made of polysterene, which is thermoplastic, hence can be repeatedly remelted . Thermosetting plastics are things like bakelite which can't be remelted.



Polystyrene, ok... 

I've not been anywhere near a kit since I was about 10, so it was a guesstimate as to what they're actually made of.


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## MontyVeda (11 Apr 2021)

Models like this keep appearing on my Pinterest page...






I love the level of detail they go to... plus the honesty of the card they're made from.


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## Reynard (11 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Models like this keep appearing on my Pinterest page...
> 
> View attachment 583376
> 
> ...



I *really* like that, very cleverly done.

Maybe I've found a use for all of those cardboard boxes left over from my Zooplus orders...


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## Reynard (11 Apr 2021)

It's a Honda RA272, as driven by Richie Ginther in the 1965 F1 World Championship.


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## MontyVeda (11 Apr 2021)

Reynard said:


> It's a Honda RA272, as driven by Richie Ginther in the 1965 F1 World Championship.


the 'cigar on wheels' is my favourite style of F1 car.... what they gained in performance from putting loads of spoilers on, they lost in aesthetics.


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## Reynard (11 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> the 'cigar on wheels' is my favourite style of F1 car.... what they gained in performance from putting loads of spoilers on, they lost in aesthetics.



Whereas mine are the cars from the late 80s, after they pulled the plug on the turbos. Back in the day where cars didn't all look near enough the same... I just loved the Ross Brawn-penned Arrows A11.


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## MontyVeda (11 Apr 2021)

Reynard said:


> Whereas mine are the cars from the late 80s, after they pulled the plug on the turbos. *Back in the day where cars didn't all look near enough the same*... I just loved the Ross Brawn-penned Arrows A11.


no idea why the 6 wheeler didn't catch on...


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## midlife (11 Apr 2021)

Williams did one the other way round but never raced it?


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## Reynard (11 Apr 2021)

midlife said:


> Williams did one the other way round but never raced it?
> View attachment 583429



No, they didn't, because the FIA (then FISA) changed the rules at the last minute.

The early / mid 80s was famous for the number of U-turns that FISA made.


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## MontyVeda (26 May 2021)

How's the stock car coming on @Reynard ?


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## Reynard (26 May 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> How's the stock car coming on @Reynard ?



I've taken a break from it, because I've been really struggling with the glue allergy. 

The solution is to work outside, but that's been nigh on impossible.  Hopefully I should get back to it soon. I do have some bits that I'll post once I've got them off my camera.


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## MontyVeda (26 May 2021)

Reynard said:


> I've taken a break from it, because I've been really struggling with the glue allergy.
> 
> The solution is to work outside, but that's been nigh on impossible.  Hopefully I should get back to it soon. I do have some bits that I'll post once I've got them off my camera.


bit like me and woodwork.. the dust really gets on my chest so after a couple of days making dust I keep having to stop for a few weeks.


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## Andy in Germany (26 May 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> bit like me and woodwork.. the dust really gets on my chest so after a couple of days making dust I keep having to stop for a few weeks.



I sympathise there, I had to get retraining because working as a carpenter and Asthma don't mix. Do you have the same problem regardless of whether you use hand tools or machines?


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## Andy in Germany (26 May 2021)

Reynard said:


> I've taken a break from it, because I've been really struggling with the glue allergy.
> 
> The solution is to work outside, but that's been nigh on impossible.  Hopefully I should get back to it soon. I do have some bits that I'll post once I've got them off my camera.



Feeling slightly guilty now as I reccomended some of the nastier glues...


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## MontyVeda (26 May 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I sympathise there, I had to get retraining because working as a carpenter and Asthma don't mix. Do you have the same problem regardless of whether you use hand tools or machines?


the machinery I reckon... but can't really remember the last time did any woodwork that involved a chisel rather than the router.


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## Reynard (26 May 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Feeling slightly guilty now as I reccomended some of the nastier glues...



Don't worry about it, you weren't to know xxx 

I'm equally culpable to be fair - as a mechanical engineer with a background in composites, I should have been more aware of what I was handling.


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## Reynard (9 Oct 2022)

Bit of a thread resurrection, but after fair old break, I've started working on the Higman again.

Some of that's been down to other things eating into my spare time, but a good deal of it was my modelling inexperience leading me down a couple of cul-de-sacs and me then stumped as to how to move on. Of course, with everything now being open since I last posted, I finally got round to having a good mosey round the model department of the local cycle / toy / haberdashery place in search of inspiration.

That mostly came in the form of their architectural modelling supplies - namely miniature plastic versions of assorted tubing, box section and beams. I did look at their selection of balsa, but it's too flimsy for a ham-fisted modeller like myself. I'd wanted to make all the parts on the car from scratch, but sometimes one has to be realistic and know when it's best to simply swallow one's pride and take the idiot-proof option - I learned the hard way that trying to drill holes in very thin sections of laminated card is an exercise in frustration.

So I bought a few lengths of plastic box section with which I can now finish off the ironwork and the front part of the roll cage. I can just feed any reinforcing wire through the center of the sections and fix it in place with epoxy without needing to go anywhere near a drill. Simples. And while I was in there, I had an impulse buy of a sheet of fine wire mesh. I can see that helping to solve the bodywork issue for the driver's cab, and it'll also be useful in making the seat. Namely bend it to shape, and then cover it in papier mache.

Someone here on CC recommended Roket card glue in lieu of superglue, so I acquired a bottle of that to try. Have to say, it's an incredibly effective adhesive - you only need a tiddly bead of glue to stick things together, and when it sticks, it really does stick. Downside, it dries flexible rather than rigid, so while it's very good at what it does, unfortunately it's not a viable alternative to superglue. So I will still have to soldier on and deal with the allergy side of things.

In terms of actual making, I've put the finishing touches to the rear wing that was in the works when I stopped, and I've made a steering wheel (Ford Cortina Mk2 style), steering column and a bracket to hold all of that to the interior bulkhead. Should hopefully get some pics up soon.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Oct 2022)

Excellent, I'm interested to see how this develops.

I often use superglue for making card hard and drillable; does Roket glue have the same effect without the nasty fumes?


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## Cycleops (9 Oct 2022)

You can get 'foam friendly' superglue now which should be fume free.
Deluxe materials are very good and they have a glue chart which might be helpful:
https://deluxematerials.co.uk/collections/glue-charts


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## Reynard (9 Oct 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I often use superglue for making card hard and drillable; does Roket glue have the same effect without the nasty fumes?



No, it doesn't. I did mention that in my post. 

The Rocket card glue bonds well but stays flexible when dry. It's fine for detail work and for gluing pre-made parts together, but it's not doing what I really bought it for i.e. laminating card for things that are structural / load-bearing.

Fortunately I won't need to use superglue for the next bits on the agenda, so I can take a bit of a break from the nasties.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Oct 2022)

Reynard said:


> No, it doesn't. I did mention that in my post.
> 
> The Rocket card glue bonds well but stays flexible when dry. It's fine for detail work and for gluing pre-made parts together, but it's not doing what I really bought it for i.e. laminating card for things that are structural / load-bearing.
> 
> Fortunately I won't need to use superglue for the next bits on the agenda, so I can take a bit of a break from the nasties.



Sorry, you did, I saw that it didn't work _exactly _like superglue but was holding out hope it maybe it would work a bit like Shellac.


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## Reynard (9 Oct 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Sorry, you did, I saw that it didn't work _exactly _like superglue but was holding out hope it maybe it would work a bit like Shellac.



No, it's somewhat reminiscent of the craft glue we used to use at school back in the day - the white stuff that came in a big squeezy bottle, and then the teacher would give you a small pot of it along with one of those white plastic spatula things to spread it.

Although it's far, far superior to that kind of glue. It really does STICK, and you only need a tiddly bit at a time, so you'll get good mileage out of a bottle. It helps to have a toothpick or something to spread it.

I haven't really drenched any card in the stuff to see how it fares that way, but I'm not certain that using more more glue will change its properties when dry.


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## Jameshow (9 Oct 2022)

Tempted by Freeman 22 model boat plans!! 

https://www.freemancruisers.com/boatsales/224/freeman22mk1


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## Reynard (11 Oct 2022)

Right, a picture update... (warning, pic heavy)

To start, the rear wing, which other than the mounting struts, is now complete. First, under the skin - it does look rather like an aircraft wing, doesn't it?







Which translated into this:






The end plates just slot into place, although they'll need to be glued. Although first I'll need to paint and do the signwriting on the wing and end plates prior to assembly, else it will be a much fiddlier job.

The steering wheel and all the peripheries was a challenge. My original iteration (let's call it a prototype to be charitable) didn't work terribly well, but I learned a lot from it. The goal was to produce something that approximates the steering wheel from a Mk2 Ford Cortina, a column and a method of fixing to the rest of the model. In the end, I plumped for the time-honoured superglue laminated card, with wood filler to smooth off the edges for the wheel itself. 

A piece of wooden knitting needle made a decent steering column - originally it was meant to be the propshaft, but waste not, want not. That fits into a flange on the back of the steering wheel made from a piece of drilled out dowelling. There is a hole drilled in the centre of the steering wheel boss and a corresponding one in the end of the steering column to take the upholstery tack which corresponds to the "bolt" on the real car.






The other end of the steering column sits in a socket about 3/4 of an inch long made of the remainder of the drilled out piece of dowelling. To achieve the rake on the column, the engine end of the socket has been cut at an angle (and sanded to fine tune). It's glued to the construction that forms the bonnet / engine, although for additional security, there's a deep slot (about 5mm) cut into the end, and which fits snugly over one of the internal flanges.






Nothing is glued in place yet, because I still need to sort out the seat and dashboard and a few other gubbins in the drivers' cab, although I do have to say that it's a fairly sturdy construction without glue.

And lastly, a more up to date global view of the model above the waterline including the bulkhead at the rear of the cab and the sections of box section at the front with the wires feeding through them. I've yet to sand the angles on the ends and bond the wire in place. When the roof rails are ready to be fixed in place, I'll glue the whole lot down and just fold the excess wire along the length. It'll add some extra strength to the structure before all the bodywork goes over the top.


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## Andy in Germany (12 Oct 2022)

Great work, I'm glad to see this project is back...


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## Reynard (12 Oct 2022)

Thanks 

I did promise to someone that I'd finish it, and it's a promise I fully intend to uphold. Still got a few potential headaches ahead when it comes to finishing off the suspension, but I'll take each step as it comes.


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## SpokeyDokey (12 Oct 2022)

Love it - absolutely fascinating!


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## Jameshow (12 Oct 2022)

Reynard said:


> Thanks
> 
> I did promise to someone that I'd finish it, and it's a promise I fully intend to uphold. Still got a few potential headaches ahead when it comes to finishing off the suspension, but I'll take each step as it comes.



What scale is it? 

Does it have independent springs and shocks?


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## Reynard (12 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> What scale is it?
> 
> Does it have independent springs and shocks?



1:10 scale - so easy on the numbers. It's about 14 inches long in real terms.

Springs and shocks on all four corners; rear is a modified Escort / Cortina axle, front is double wishbone setup. I've already made the springs and shocks, but they'll just be bonded in place when I come to that point, they don't "work" as such.


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## Reynard (16 Oct 2022)

I've been busy tinkering again. I put my big girl pants on and glued all the pieces for the rear half of the roll cage together - that's the main rear roll protection, the section behind it that in real life would take the fuel tank, and the internal bulkhead behind the driver. Plus I drilled two holes in the top of the main section to take the wires that hold down the roof rails. So it now looks like this:











I sanded down the rough edges as best I could, and smoothed the remainder off with some wood filler. And then, when all was nice and dry, gave it all a coat of primer.






Really happy with that, as there was a lot of potential for things to go wrong. As it is, everything fits together rather nicely. I also made the fire extinguisher that fits onto that rear bulkhead - it's a small confection made out of rolled paper and then sanded to shape, but it's safely in the box of parts in its own little ziploc bag for now.

As I'm busy working on the driver's cab, the next bit was the seat. Not as straightforward as I'd have liked, purely down to the fact that I don't really have that many photos which show it in any great detail. I have a decent enough view of the side wings at the level of the driver's ribs and the top of the seat, but nothing below that. So I did the next best thing and guesstimated.

I've seen my fair share of racing seats over the years, so I knew more or less where I needed to be, but oval racing seats are a little bit different to those used for circuit racing. It's more true of the modern ones, but it's not too difficult to extrapolate backwards somewhat - especially thanks to some useful input from the guys over on the Old Skool Superstox group on Facebook and the website for Kirkey Race Seats.

I used the dimensions on the website to make my template, but then when I folded the seat into shape, it was clear that the Kirkey seats are made for American backsides, and not one to fit a 15 year old Hampshire beanpole... 

A bit of jiggery pokery got something that matched what I could see on the photos, and I ended up with the basic structure for a seat to take a 4-point harness as it would have been back in 1984...






Then, of course, I had to make it look more realistic, so cue a bit of fun with some printer paper, a little more card and the inside of a packet of Petit Beurre biscuits...






I'm really happy with that. Bought some binding from the haberdashers to make the belts with, but that's for another day...


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## Reynard (16 Oct 2022)

One of the other cul-de-sacs I'd gotten myself into due to modelling inexperience was how to fit the rear wing onto the car. I should have thought of that when I made the rear of the roll cage - but didn't, and then I compounded the problem by building the mount points onto the underside of the rear wing during that build, rather than making them separately. I'd also been too realistic with those, which posed problems at this scale which you don't see on a full-sized car. And then there was the question of the struts themselves.

I just started playing around with a few ideas, and realised that the plastic box section I'd picked up in the model shop previous week would make a mighty fine socket if I blanked one end off with card. Which means that I could make the struts with wire covered in rolled paper, use an interference fit to make the ends fit snugly, and simply bend the struts to shape.

Inevitably a few iterations were needed to get things where I needed to be, and yes, I did have to make some compromises with the mounting points on the roll cage, but the solution a) works and b) looks realistic enough. Of course, I had to take the drastic step of taking a hacksaw to the original mounts on the rear wing - not nice when you've spent ages making them from fiddly little pieces. But if they aren't right, they've got to go, and go they did, to be replaced by a spiffy new pair of sockets.

So an overhead-ish view of the mounting points bonded to the car - a little higher on the rollcage than they ought to be, but I opted for the extra security of a second contact point when it came to the glue...






And a view of the modified underside of the wing. I had to re-do these, because the first time, I put the sockets on the wrong way round... Doh!






And now a global view of the car above the waterline as she stands. She's really starting to look like a proper Colin Higman-built Superstox now, although those rear wing endplates have gone, as they are much too thick. I have already made a pair of replacements that look a LOT better. I'm also not entirely happy with the roof rails - you can see from these photos that they're a fraction too narrow and don't sit flush against the back of the roll cage as a result. So I'll be making a replacement for that too. No point putting the effort in if you aren't going to get it right...


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## AndyRM (16 Oct 2022)

That's amazing @Reynard!


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## Cycleops (16 Oct 2022)

Looks good, not easy to do in wood.
Is there any reason you picked that rather than plastic card and plastic sections?


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## Reynard (16 Oct 2022)

AndyRM said:


> That's amazing @Reynard!



Thanks


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## Reynard (16 Oct 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Looks good, not easy to do in wood.
> Is there any reason you picked that rather than plastic card and plastic sections?



It's laminated card of various types and grades, rolled paper and wire mostly. There is a bit of wood in the structure - some dowelling and a couple of mum's knitting needles, and a block that fits under this section of the car which makes up the lower half of the chassis / gearbox / sump.

Was needs must really, as I started this project in lockdown, so I used what I had to hand.


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## Reynard (17 Oct 2022)

A bit of a fail on the paint side of things...

Am working on painting the rear wing - two end plates plus the wing itself. All of the parts took up the grey Tamiya primer OK, so a good start. The endplates (offcuts of mounting card stuck together with Roket glue) then painted fine with artists acrylics - I'm using a mix of Daler Rowney System 3 and Winsor & Newton Finity btw, but the paint just beads up on the wing and scratches off when dry. Aaaargh!

I should add that the rear wing was assembled with 2-part epoxy - it was the last part I made before the allergy-induced hiatus - to avoid using superglue. A bit of poking around with Mr Google suggests that acrylic paints don't "stick" to epoxy resins terribly well, so I'm a little bit fubared right now. If it was something inside the cab, then I wouldn't be too worried, but this is one of the main external parts that also requires signwriting. So I need a good painted surface, not one that scratches as soon as you touch it.

Have sanded the failed paint layer and primer off, and I think I will cover the wing plane with a paper sleeve stuck down with the Rocket glue. In theory, that should give me a porous surface for the acrylic paint to stick to.

This does leave the plastic bits on the rear wing (and on other parts of the car, on which artists acrylics will also scratch.

However, the plastic is that modelling box section, so it's certainly intended to be painted over. But I've no experience at all with modelling paints, and there is a large array of different ones in the shop in town - Humbrol, rattle cans, other various different pots of stuff... So can anyone recommend me something suitable.


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## fossyant (17 Oct 2022)

Incredible detail.


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## Cycleops (17 Oct 2022)

You're going to get the best finish with an airbrush. You could try using a brush and humbrol enamels but won't come out great. 
Rattle cans might be a better alternative.


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## fossyant (17 Oct 2022)

Cycleops said:


> You're going to get the best finish with an airbrush. You could try using a brush and humbrol enamels but won't come out great.
> Rattle cans might be a better alternative.



How do you rattle can a tiny detailed model then ?


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## Jameshow (17 Oct 2022)

fossyant said:


> How do you rattle can a tiny detailed model then ?



All over!!


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## Reynard (18 Oct 2022)

Well, the paper sleeve on the rear wing was a bust. It sort of helped, but didn't really. Oh well, at least I tried. The trouble is, when I built the rear wing, I covered the ribs and struts with a card skin using epoxy, and then wrapped the whole lot with paper stuck down with more epoxy in order to smooth out and hide the seams. All to avoid using superglue...

What I didn't realise at the time is that epoxy acts like wax resist when painting. And that's even when covered with extra paper stuck down with conventional glue.

Now I could have tried adding yet more paper, but then it would change the shape and scale of the wing, so today I bit the bullet and sanded it right back down to the original skin. I got lucky there, as I'd made that skin using card from a cereal packet, and stuck it down with the shiny printed side on the inside. Which means that the epoxy has only bled through a little along the seams on the leading and trailing edges as opposed to the whole thing. I've trimmed off as much of the extra glue as I dare with a knife, and I shall re-cover the wing in craft card. With luck, that should solve the paint problem.

It does mean that I will also have to modify both the exhaust back box and the differential / rear axle assembly prior to painting, as I made a fair bit of use of epoxy resin on both.

As a point of interest, the stuff that I peeled off the rear wing really did feel like the strips of waxed paper you get in those packets with the posh air-dried ham. No wonder the paint didn't want to stay put!


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## Illaveago (21 Oct 2022)

You could try Humbrol enamel paint . It used to stick to the little Airfix plastic figures. It takes a bit longer to dry as it dries by oxidation .


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## Reynard (21 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> You could try Humbrol enamel paint . It used to stick to the little Airfix plastic figures. It takes a bit longer to dry as it dries by oxidation .



I will need to buy something of that ilk to paint the few plastic parts that I have.

Although according to Mr Google, nothing will stick to epoxy without flaking - even Humbrol - so I'll have to re-make / modify the parts where I've used it.


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## Illaveago (21 Oct 2022)

Reynard said:


> I will need to buy something of that ilk to paint the few plastic parts that I have.
> 
> Although according to Mr Google, nothing will stick to epoxy without flaking - even Humbrol - so I'll have to re-make / modify the parts where I've used it.



Your model will be kept indoors so it will not suffer from weathering or flexing . You could try a bit of wet and dry to roughen the surface up before painting .


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## Reynard (21 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Your model will be kept indoors so it will not suffer from weathering or flexing . You could try a bit of wet and dry to roughen the surface up before painting .



I've already tried that with some of the plastic parts and / or test pieces, and no, artists acrylics will not stay put. 

The results look good but the finish scratches really easily. IMHO it's not worth putting in all the time and effort to get the paint right, only for it to fall off as soon as it's touched. I don't need many colours (black, white, raw umber, burnt sienna) so I will be investing in specialist paints for those parts.


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## Illaveago (21 Oct 2022)

Reynard said:


> I've already tried that with some of the plastic parts and / or test pieces, and no, artists acrylics will not stay put.
> 
> The results look good but the finish scratches really easily. IMHO it's not worth putting in all the time and effort to get the paint right, only for it to fall off as soon as it's touched. I don't need many colours (black, white, raw umber, burnt sienna) so I will be investing in specialist paints for those parts.



I was referring to enamel paint . Artists acrylic or even modellers acrylic paints will not adhere to some surfaces . I was angry when the acrylic paint peeled off the hull of a plastic model . It might be because I didn't use a primer but I have never used a primer for enamel paint .


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## Reynard (21 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I was referring to enamel paint . Artists acrylic or even modellers acrylic paints will not adhere to some surfaces . I was angry when the acrylic paint peeled off the hull of a plastic model . It might be because I didn't use a primer but I have never used a primer for enamel paint .



Ah booger, that must've been really frustrating...

You'd think though, that the people making modelling stuff would make it in such a way that the paint does a stayputnik.


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## Illaveago (22 Oct 2022)

Reynard said:


> Ah booger, that must've been really frustrating...
> 
> You'd think though, that the people making modelling stuff would make it in such a way that the paint does a stayputnik.



Paints have changed over the years . VOC's have been taken out . Paints have less body as I call it . The paint is so thin just like water . Gone are the nice smells that you used to get when you opened the tin . I can remember the small set of bottles that my brother used to buy for painting his models . That was before Humbrol came along with their model paints . The pack contained the basic colours which had to be mixed to get the right colour .
Paints have different resins in them for different applications so artists paints will have a different make up to modellers or household paints .


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## Andy in Germany (22 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I was referring to enamel paint . Artists acrylic or even modellers acrylic paints will not adhere to some surfaces . I was angry when the acrylic paint peeled off the hull of a plastic model . It might be because I didn't use a primer but I have never used a primer for enamel paint .



Enamel is more solid and adheres better: I've found that primers are essential on non-porus surfaces with acrylics. It doesn't take much though; just a light dusting and the acrylics attach quite happily. Acrylics are opaque though, which can take some getting used to but can be used to advantage.


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## Reynard (22 Oct 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Enamel is more solid and adheres better: I've found that primers are essential on non-porus surfaces with acrylics. It doesn't take much though; just a light dusting and the acrylics attach quite happily. Acrylics are opaque though, which can take some getting used to but can be used to advantage.



Not strictly true when it comes to acrylics - or oils for that matter...

The earth-based pigments tend to be opaque - the browns, blacks and whites. The rest are translucent to some degree, reds and yellows at the more extreme end of this. So if you need yellow detail on a black ground, you will have to do the detail in white and then glaze it over with several washes of yellow. It's a painting technique that goes back to the middle ages.


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## Reynard (23 Oct 2022)

Another update on the actual build. Again, a bit pic heavy...

Have been working on the seat, as I've decided to concentrate on finishing all the bits on the driver's cab. So first step was to prime and paint the seat, then weather it a bit where things have rubbed - harness, driver's bum etc. Stock cars of that era were a bit banged and bashed, although to be fair. the car I'm modelling was always immaculately turned out.







Next step was to make the belts. Thanks to the good folks over on the Old Skool Superstox FB group I knew I had to model a 4-point harness. I only had a decent view of the shoulder belts, so a certain amount of guesstimation was required. But then again, I have good familiarity with racing seatbelts...

The hard part was working out what to make them from. I had bought some hemming tape from the haberdashers last week, but it turned out to be too wide and too thick, so back to bouncing ideas around. I didn't want to use paper or card, as it's not flexible enough, but anything plastic-based won't take a paint. However, a rummage in my sewing basket yielded a length of baby pink bias binding left over from making a set of cat show drapes.

I folded that over to get the right width, and then glued it. The result was a bit stiffer than I'd have liked, but since it was a workable solution, I decided to stick with it. So on went the paint to match the belts in the photo I'm working from (the one on the cover of the July 1984 issue of Short Circuit Magazine) before cutting a pair of shoulder belts and a pair of lap belts plus a couple of other bits. Then it was making all the buckles and doodads and stuff - back to loads of tiny fiddly parts. The end result was this:






Next stage was to glue the lap belts to the seat. The "mount points" for those will be glued to the chassis rails. I have to wait to attach the shoulder belts because they fix to the roll cage, and I still need to paint that section. And I can't do that (to avoid damage) until I've used it to make the templates for the bodywork. I've made the shoulder belts too long because I've yet to work out exactly how to fix them to the model. But anyways, the pretty well much completed seat now looks like this:


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## Reynard (23 Oct 2022)

I've also been working on the rear wing, dealing with the paint problem and the end plate problem. The latter was easily solved by making a new set, using the old pair as a template. The former, I first tried adding a paper sleeve to the wing, but I still ended up with a waxy surface upon which the paint (artists acrylics) would not stick. My fault for coating the wing in epoxy in a bid to avoid the superglue...

In the end, I sanded the skin of the wing right back to the original covering. Lucky for me, I'd made that skin from cereal packet card with the shiny side in, which meant that the epoxy had only bled through at the seams. I then covered the seams with paper, and then fitted a new cardboard sleeve onto the wing proper - which meant that I now had a surface I could paint on. (The exception are the two sockets on the underside, which needs a different paint type.

Base colour on wing and end plates was pretty straightforward. The tricky bit was the sign writing and getting it to look right. Now I'm no stranger to a paintbrush, but it's a totally different ballgame painting on three dimensional shapes...  It took me an evening to do the two end plates, and a morning to get the text right on the wing before slowly applying the paint - white initially, and then later glazing with yellow.






I've not glued anything in place just yet - I'm leery of doing that too early. But everything just slots together, so the painted and "assembled" rear wing looks like this:






And just because, the rear wing and the seat on the car:






Have to admit, putting the race number on the car feels like a MASSIVE step forward. It makes it feel like a real thing, not just a random collection of parts...


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## Jameshow (23 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Paints have changed over the years . VOC's have been taken out . Paints have less body as I call it . The paint is so thin just like water . Gone are the nice smells that you used to get when you opened the tin . I can remember the small set of bottles that my brother used to buy for painting his models . That was before Humbrol came along with their model paints . The pack contained the basic colours which had to be mixed to get the right colour .
> Paints have different resins in them for different applications so artists paints will have a different make up to modellers or household paints .



We were given some professional enamel paint grey primer and red for our santa sleigh build and it's really strong stuff! 

Goes off well and really tough too!


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## Andy in Germany (24 Oct 2022)

Very nice work @Reynard; I particularly like the weathering on the seat and straps.


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## Reynard (24 Oct 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Very nice work @Reynard; I particularly like the weathering on the seat and straps.



Thanks @Andy in Germany 

I'm very much a novice at this, so yeah... On the face of it, the weathering on the seat looks too much, but bearing in mind that it will be inside quite a dark cab, I need the edges to stand out some. I think it will be OK.

Next step is to deal with the front of the roll cage and the roof rails. Then I can think about making the dashboard and the templates for the bodywork.


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## Reynard (30 Oct 2022)

It's funny how, when you sort out a couple of sticking points, so much then suddenly falls into place...

The front of the roll cage and the roof rails have been bugging me for ages, and was one of the reasons I stopped working on this. I did buy the plastic box section from the model shop, but it just didn't sit right with me - especially the two that make the A-pillar. So I made the equivalent parts to the same cross section out of rolled paper and covered in a cardboard skin that just threaded onto the wire I'd bonded in to the front of the rollcage. The first iterations were too short once I trimmed the ends - and to be fair, I trimmed too much off one of them in a bid to get the angles right... Ooops, you live and learn...

Then I made the piece that joins them to complete the "windscreen frame" section - although of course there's no glass on a stock car. This bit has a wire core that protrudes 2mm out of each side, as the ends fit into holes pierced in the vertical section. Nothing is glued together yet, as I need access to the driver's cab at this stage. Then I re-made the roof rails - from the original drawings this time, and guess what... They fit first time!  The fore and aft rails were bonded in on the underside to complete that particular assembly.











While my brain was set loose on working out how to construct some of the remaining parts, I took the opportunity to make the dashboard for the car. Now this again is where guesstimation was required, as the two forward-looking shots I have of the interior are so poor that it's difficult to see any real detail. But I do have a good interior photo from a Higman contemporary to this one, as well as a few from the OSS group of another replica Superstox that was being built.

Given that there's only two gauges (water temp & oil pressure), ignition light, starter button and an electrical cut-off switch, there's a finite number of ways this can be displayed on a dash. And yes, I had fun with a hole punch again to make the bezels for the gauges... Oh, and the u-shaped bracket is to accommodate the steering column.






Which painted up, translated into this:






While I had the paints out - and to take a break from the glue, I went back to the side irons and the front and rear bumpers. They were some of the first pieces I made way back when, and if I'm honest, I could have done a better job. I'd also primed them - badly. So cue a lot of filing and sanding and smoothing over gaps with wood filler, followed by priming with a rattle can this time. And those parts then translated into this:






After priming, they were painted in two coats of black, then two of silver, before giving a final coat of black. And then the fun started, sanding back to expose the "bare metal" resulting from scuffs and scrapes, and then adding smears of other colours to simulate the paint picked up from contact with other cars. Overall, I'm happy with the result, both of these and of the dashboard, but I might change the paint a bit later on prior to final assembly.


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## Reynard (30 Oct 2022)

While I was doing the above. I was also trying to work out how to construct the bodywork. This was the second of the aforementioned sticking points. Well, more specifically, the lower half of the driver's cab. It's critical to get this right, as the fit of almost all the other bodywork panels are dependent on these two pieces - one on either side, and each piece a mirror image. The problem stems from the fact that it's a double curvature i.e. not only does it curve fore-and-aft, it also curves in the vertical plane.

OK, I do have the small sheet of wire mesh I bought in the model shop, but it was £2.80 for an A5-sized piece, so I really didn't want to be making any mistakes. And, quite frankly, I'm no panel-beater...

Ergo I kept that in reserve and tried to solve the problem another way. Paper templates of various kinds came and went, and after a frustrating evening of doing that, then cue me trawling through the house and in the recycling wheelie bin, looking at plastic bottles and comparing them to a cardboard frame I'd devised. The first try saw me cut up a washing up liquid bottle, but it was just that little bit too small. Hey ho.

In the end I settled for a 4-pint milk bottle, as it was the closest I could find to the shape I was looking for. All well and dandy until I'd glued the two sections into their respective cardboard frames, and then while the bottom was fine, the top of the curve was too flat. So some surgery was required - one to cut down the plastic to half its height, and two, to fit a wire bent to the right shape across the top.

Then I went all Blue Peter and resorted to the Ancient Art of papier mache to join the lot together...











After several more layers of paper, I now have quite a stiff structure - but there's just enough give on the wire to bend the sections to the exact profile needed. I did have to add a strengthening beam along the bottom to stop the frame from going all origami on me. This does have the benefit of making the part slot directly into the side of the roll cage, and also gives me a platform to add the metal plates that sit either side of the driver's seat in lieu of side impact protection.











They still do need some work prior to tidying up, and then I'll need to sand to a smooth surface before to painting. They do fit rather well onto the rest of the model however, even in their unfinished state.






Just as an aside, I've only ever seen this car in photos, and there's a world of difference between a photo and seeing it come together in front of you, albeit in 1:10 scale. And one thing's really struck me, is how cramped the driver's cab actually is. For a young man who was pushing 6ft, he would've had to pretzel himself to get inside...


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## Reynard (4 Nov 2022)

Other than modelling four bonnet catches - which I'd much rather do in daylight - the Higman's bodywork forward of the rollcage is now complete and ready for priming.  I'll post an update once I've sorted out the catches.

I've also moved all the other completed parts to a new (bigger) box where things are less likely to get dinged and dented. Which made me realise that the wheels and tyres - which haven't seen the light of day for a while - really aren't up to snuff. They were the very first things I made, and well, let's just say that I've improved a lot. I could bodge them with filler and stuff, but quite frankly, I think I'd probably be better off making another set...


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## Jameshow (5 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> Other than modelling four bonnet catches - which I'd much rather do in daylight - the Higman's bodywork forward of the rollcage is now complete and ready for priming.  I'll post an update once I've sorted out the catches.
> 
> I've also moved all the other completed parts to a new (bigger) box where things are less likely to get dinged and dented. Which made me realise that the wheels and tyres - which haven't seen the light of day for a while - really aren't up to snuff. They were the very first things I made, and well, let's just say that I've improved a lot. I could bodge them with filler and stuff, but quite frankly, I think I'd probably be better off making another set...



I admire your patience and dedication!

Keep going!!


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## Reynard (5 Nov 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I admire your patience and dedication!
> 
> Keep going!!



Thank you. 

The driver of that car (it was his first really serious race car) is someone who means a great deal to me. I want to do right by him, you know, keeping the memory alive like...


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## Reynard (5 Nov 2022)

Oh, and my motor racing historian friend has identified the specific type of bonnet catches - made by Dzus, they're a quarter turn cam-based mechanism rather than the more commonplace spring-loaded jobbies.

Either way, that's a lot of tiddly parts with the potential to become sproings or pingfeckits...


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## Jameshow (5 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The driver of that car (it was his first really serious race car) is someone who means a great deal to me. I want to do right by him, you know, keeping the memory alive like...



Ditto the boat I made....


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## Reynard (5 Nov 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Ditto the boat I made....



Paul was my hero when I was a schoolgirl - though he was only a handful of years older than me. I actually started watching motor racing because of his older brother Derek and THAT moment in the 1982 British GP, and when you then find out that your favourite driver has a kid brother who also races, it was kind of a no-brainer to be a fan of both.

Paul was killed in a F3000 accident when I was 16, and I was absolutely heartbroken.


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## Reynard (7 Nov 2022)

Given up on the side panels for the driver's cab. Quite frankly, they're garbage.

My fault really, I was trying to be too quick / greedy / clever in making them, and it showed. Especially compared to the neatness of the other bodywork panels I've made. The issue is that this part of the bodywork has a lot of subtle curves and direction changes - not a problem when making a full-sized car when you've got a sheet of metal and all the right tools, but far more so when working small scale and with a very different material.

I could've carried on and bodged the originals, but I'd never have been happy with whatever result I'd then ended up with. Better to cut my losses now and start again from scratch. This time, being a heck of a lot more careful and thinking about each step.

Not all the ideas from the originals were ditched - the card frame survived, but instead of keeping it as a single piece, it got split into three sections, and fitment brackets built in at this stage. And to get the curves, I used small panels that butted up against each other rather than try to achieve it with a single piece of card / wire mesh / plastic bottle etc.

They're only at the single skin stage at the moment (120 gsm card) so plenty more work needed to get them finished, but the result is a much neater pair of panels with the right shape and curvature this time. Not just that, they simply just click into place and stay there, rather than needing copious amounts of blu-tac and still not really staying put.

I also need to make the rear panel at this stage, to make sure everything fits together.


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## Reynard (8 Nov 2022)

Sort of related, I found this clip on the Tube of You while looking for something else. It's not the car I'm modelling, but it's stablemate, bought eight months later from the same constructor down in Devon. This is Paul winning the 1985 British Superstox title:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brOiGy3UYYM


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## Andy in Germany (8 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> Given up on the side panels for the driver's cab. Quite frankly, they're garbage.
> 
> My fault really, I was trying to be too quick / greedy / clever in making them, and it showed. Especially compared to the neatness of the other bodywork panels I've made. The issue is that this part of the bodywork has a lot of subtle curves and direction changes - not a problem when making a full-sized car when you've got a sheet of metal and all the right tools, but far more so when working small scale and with a very different material.
> 
> ...



I've been known to restart a project three times from scratch, so I can relate.


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## Illaveago (8 Nov 2022)

Are you restricting yours self to cardboard or could you use plasticard? I was think that you could press plasticard into shape by using a teaspoon to work it into shape .


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## Reynard (8 Nov 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been known to restart a project three times from scratch, so I can relate.



I think it's called "learning by doing"


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## Reynard (8 Nov 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Are you restricting yours self to cardboard or could you use plasticard? I was think that you could press plasticard into shape by using a teaspoon to work it into shape .



Well, most of the bits are already made, so may as well stick to what I've been using rather than switching to a new material.

And in any case, breakfast cereal boxes come free with the cereal, and I've always other bits of card and paper knocking around from working on my archive...


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## Phaeton (8 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> I think it's called "learning by doing"


Is there really any other valid way?


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## Reynard (8 Nov 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Is there really any other valid way?



No, true...

But then again, I've never done any modelling before, so I guess my learning curve has been far steeper than most. Though as with anything else that involves a modicum of skill, you're always learning.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> I think it's called "learning by doing"



I refer to it as the Scientific Method.


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## Reynard (9 Nov 2022)

Anyways, finally a pictorial update...

As mentioned upthread, I've pretty well much finished the three sections that make up the bonnet of the car. There's still a few small details yet to sort, like the four Dzus fasteners on the middle section that, in real life, just lifts off (no hinges on this particular Higman), and the two small bolts that hold the nose cone in place. But other than that (and for which I really do need good daylight), they're just about ready for priming and painting.

The bit on the far left was fun (NOT), as I had to do some fancypants trigonometry to work out the angle and long side for the bit that flips up to form a windshield. I'm good for remembering the formulae for a right angled triangle, but not for an obtuse one. So I had to go and look it up in one of my maths books...

c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - (2ab cos Θ) if you are interested...

The middle piece was fiddly on account of the cut-outs for the air filter and exhaust manifold, so cue lots of paper templates and no small amount of swearing. On the other hand, the right hand piece was easy, as I could use (and then discard) the former for the nose cone that I made earlier in the build.












And the image below shows how it all fits together. The signwriting's going to be fun on that. I've actually bought some fine nibbed permanent markers (black & red) to do the really fiddly stuff as a) I've got more control with a pen, b) I don't actually have a brush fine enough to do the job, and c) the pens will still be useful once I'm done.






I've also been working on the replacement panels for the lower half of the driver's cab, doing each step slowly and methodically and taking the time to think between each step. It's made one heck of a difference.

The other thing I've done is to work out a (more or less) sequential "to do" list so that I can see where I'm at and where I need to go. The majority of the stuff left is suspension and drivetrain-related, with the last real big headache being how to attach the shocks and suspension links to the rear axle. I don't have a clear pic of that part of the car, but I'm hoping that the folks on the OSS group on FB might be able to help me out when the time comes.


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## AndyRM (9 Nov 2022)

This is seriously impressive stuff @Reynard - chapeau!


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## Andy in Germany (9 Nov 2022)

Extremely neat work @Reynard. 

Why don't you paint the car in bits and then put them together: it would allow easier acces to the fiddly corners.


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## Reynard (9 Nov 2022)

Thanks, gents 

Yes, the intention is to paint all the pieces individually including the bodywork prior to assembly. For the latter, the challenge will be making sure that the "Warwick Trailers" logo, which stretches all the way down the left hand side of the car, all lines up once everything is put together.


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## Reynard (12 Nov 2022)

Been full of cold this week, so not done anything on the bodywork. The work is too exacting, which is not so great when your head feels disconnected from the rest of your body... So to keep things ticking over, I've shifted my attention to the front suspension. Most of the components there are already made, with the exception of the shock mounts and the upper wishbones.

I've been messing around with the wishbones before, but my original iterations using laminated card doused in superglue just weren't going to fly - not just from the fiddliness aspect, but also down to the glue allergy. I did look on the 'bay and on Amazon at RC car parts for ready-made wishbones, but if they was the right size, they weren't the right shape, and if they were more or less the right shape, they were the wrong size. And stupidly spendy.

The vast majority of stock car front wishbones are custom made and very simple - just a flat triangle with a ball joint at the stub axle end and two simple pivots welded to the main chassis rails. However, the problem I had is that this particular car seems to use wishbones off a production car. Not only that, you can see from the photo below that they're shaped like a bell crank - good for transmitting loads, less so for modelling. Yes, this is the best pic I've got, and yes, that *IS* Derek Warwick in the driver's cab.






But I've had good results on other parts of the model with wire covered in rolled paper, and I'd already bonded the pickup pegs into the main chassis rails, so... (That yellow thing is a more or less accurate template retained from my original attempts at wishbones.)






Then add the wire core and bond to the paper with glue...






Ah drat, the first attempt (taking the measurements from that card template) gives me something that's too long... Looks reasonably decent though...






At least I'm just messing around with paper and wire, so it's easy to make adjustments and try again. And yes, that is SO much better. (The bottom wishbones were made integral with the lower set of chassis rails - you can see them in the photo.)






I still need to do the outer skin on the wishbones to make them look right, but at least I've got a basic structure that I'm happy with. I will leave that stage to when I actually get round to assembling this part of the car so that I can tailor them to an exact fit.

The last thing was to check whether there's enough clearance for the shocks... And yes there is.






I had made some lower mounts (visible just behind the steering rack) when I was making the shocks, but they raise the shocks too high, so I'm going to have to re-think that too. The original intention was to hold the shocks in with wire pins, but I think I'm just going to make a socket of sorts and simply bond them in place.






I'm happy with how the front suspension is coming. Some tidying up still needed, but at least it's a good step forward again, with another one of the remaining headaches solved. Hopefully next week I can get back to the bodywork...


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## Andy in Germany (12 Nov 2022)

Reynard said:


> Been full of cold this week, so not done anything on the bodywork. The work is too exacting, which is not so great when your head feels disconnected from the rest of your body... So to keep things ticking over, I've shifted my attention to the front suspension. Most of the components there are already made, with the exception of the shock mounts and the upper wishbones.
> 
> I've been messing around with the wishbones before, but my original iterations using laminated card doused in superglue just weren't going to fly - not just from the fiddliness aspect, but also down to the glue allergy. I did look on the 'bay and on Amazon at RC car parts for ready-made wishbones, but if they was the right size, they weren't the right shape, and if they were more or less the right shape, they were the wrong size. And stupidly spendy.
> 
> ...



That's looking beautiful; you can tell it's built by an engineer.


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## Reynard (12 Nov 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's looking beautiful; you can tell it's built by an engineer.



Thank you 

And as an engineer, I'm really appreciating Colin Higman's handiwork. Circuit racing people do tend to pooh-pooh the short oval side of things, but the truth is, these cars, though rather basic compared to even a FF1600 car, are incredibly well designed and put together. Colin was one of the foremost chassis builders of Superstox / F2 stock cars until he was diagnosed with dementia.

The husband of a friend collaborated with him on a project to build a custom F2 stock car, and said the man was an absolute genius. He was also a damn good racer in his day as well...


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## Reynard (27 Nov 2022)

Progress over the last couple of weeks has been slow and steady. Which is a good thing, as it's given me the time to think the processes through. One of my failings is that sometimes I've tried to do things too quickly - and then have to redo things as a result. Anyways, the big news is that the bodywork (barring the roof) is finally complete.

Note that I've made a temporary roof that allows the construction wires to poke through. The reason is to give me a visual reference for the sides of the cab. Oh, and I did have a bit of fun with this, as I've painted it up with the National Champion's stripes. 

I didn't take any work-in-progress photos unfortunately, but barring the rear panel, which is just a simple piece of card with tabs, the cab sides (upper and lower) were made using the same method - a card and wire frame, and then building up the curved surfaces with small pieces of paper / card. The lower panels for the cab are actually made in three sections and then glued together prior to covering with the paper skin. It was just easier to do it that way when it came to taking all the angles into account. 

I was kind of surprised, because while the bodywork LOOKS simple, it really isn't, because there are a lot of subtle curves and angles that aren't always apparent to the naked eye. Although admittedly, some of the photos I'm working from are pretty pants. Having said that, it's been very satisfying seeing the top half of the car come alive in three dimensions.

Anyways, the original lower cab sides have finally gone in the bin now that the new ones have been completed - they really were that pants. The new parts simply click into place to complete the chassis / rollcage assembly. I did have to modify some of the internal cab parts slightly to account for the changes from the original parts, but that'll be to my benefit in the long run. The forward section that runs along the sides of the engine bay should actually be a separate panel, but it was easier to integrate it into this part of the build and simply make it *appear* to be separate instead.












Once I'd got these two under my belt, the upper sides of the cab were much easier to make. I did fanny about with some paper templates of an evening, but quickly realised I'd have the same issues as with the lower panels if I tried to make them from a single piece of card. So I ended up using the identical method of card and wire frame, covered with small tessellated pieces of paper to generate the curved surface - think of a leather football and you kind of get the idea. Unlike the lower cab sides, these pieces are not structural, so could be thinner and lighter. The tab on the rear curves around the roll cage, btw.











Last but not least, the rear bodywork panel that covers the fuel tank and rear firewall - the only piece that is actually flat! Easy to make, taking the measurements directly from the roll cage etc itself. Again, it simply clicks into place.






So all the pieces of the bodywork for the driver's cab and bonnet are now complete, but I have decided to not prime or paint anything just yet. That's because the roll cage, chassis and engine bay aren't glued together at this stage, as I'll be building the car from the bottom up. And even if things appear to fit together really well right now, there's still a chance that I'll have to make adjustments once things have been glued together. Ergo don't want to find myself in a situation where I've got to re-paint bits because things don't match up...


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## Reynard (27 Nov 2022)

Anyways, a couple of photos of how all the bodywork fits together. Just because, you know...


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## Caperider (14 Dec 2022)

Reynard said:


> So as not to clog up the Mundane News thread with the minutiae of my 1:10 scale Higman Superstox project, thought I'd start a new thread on the ins and outs of scratch-built models.
> 
> I have to confess that I'm a modelling newbie - my only previous experience is with a few cheap plastic kits well over three decades ago. You know, the ones that never fit together right, where the glue doesn't set completely and the paint and decals refused to stay put... My background is in automotive engineering, so the design work itself isn't the issue. Where I could use advice is in making that leap from drawings on a page to actually making parts. So methods, materials, hints and tips, that sort of thing, from heads wiser than mine.
> 
> ...



Very cool looks fun as all get out!


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