# Upgrading From 9 gears to 11



## antnee (20 Oct 2019)

On my Btwin triban 3. I started out with an 8 speed cassette Then changed it for a 9 speed and thats what I'm running with now Though am wondering if I can change to an 11 speed cassette as there is a quite big spacer on the opposite side (between the frame and wheel) Is there any way I can work this out with going and spending lots of money Anybody got any thoughts on this on how to go about it BTW I have someone with a lathe who could reduce the size of the bush/spacer Many thanks


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## DCLane (20 Oct 2019)

You're going to need 11 speed shifters. Also a new rear derailleur. Maybe a new crankset if you're still running the old one.

The wheels may take an 11 speed cassette, which you'll also need, or may not be capable of it.

But why? The Triban's a fairly basic bike. And 9 to 11 speed won't make much difference to be honest for quite an outlay - you'd get an 11-speed bike for not much more.


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## Cycleops (20 Oct 2019)

As above, there's very little point.


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## fossyant (20 Oct 2019)

It's not an upgrade - it's more money. 👅


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## antnee (20 Oct 2019)

Ok Yes Your all right of couse looking at the prices of the bits required Perhaps I will sell the triiban and upgrade the whole thing by looking into the the possibility of a cyclo cross or just another upgrade road bike so thanks to you all


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## DCLane (20 Oct 2019)

@antnee - the best thing to look at it is n+1

You'll end up with an 11 speed decent bike and a 9 speed for other things


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## Racing roadkill (21 Oct 2019)

antnee said:


> On my Btwin triban 3. I started out with an 8 speed cassette Then changed it for a 9 speed and thats what I'm running with now Though am wondering if I can change to an 11 speed cassette as there is a quite big spacer on the opposite side (between the frame and wheel) Is there any way I can work this out with going and spending lots of money Anybody got any thoughts on this on how to go about it BTW I have someone with a lathe who could reduce the size of the bush/spacer Many thanks


I recently upgraded a Triban 520 from 9 speed Sora, to 11 speed R7000 105. The Triban 3 was (pretty much) the fore runner to the 520. You will need 11 speed brifters, and a new rear mech, as the pull ratios are different when you get to 11 speed, and you’ll need an 11 speed chain too. It is perfectly do-able, as long as your freehub is long enough for the 11 speed cassette.


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## Racing roadkill (21 Oct 2019)

DCLane said:


> You're going to need 11 speed shifters. Also a new rear derailleur. Maybe a new crankset if you're still running the old one.


yes, agreed.



DCLane said:


> The wheels may take an 11 speed cassette, which you'll also need, or may not be capable of it.


True.



DCLane said:


> But why? The Triban's a fairly basic bike.


It’s actually a superb bit of kit, with an 11 speed upgrade, it would be the measure of a lot of bikes that cost several thousand pounds.



DCLane said:


> And 9 to 11 speed won't make much difference to be honest for quite an outlay - you'd get an 11-speed bike for not much more.


Absolutely not true. The difference with the 11 speed set up, is night and day. If you shop around, particularly the second hand market, you can get all the components you need for a couple of hundred quid, and you get the satisfaction of having done the upgrade.


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## antnee (21 Oct 2019)

Well Perhaps I will look in to it a bit more as at the moment I'm pretty well stuck at home being head cook and bottle washer and between all that I've time to look around, though I didn't think that i would have stirred up such differing views


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## Cycleops (21 Oct 2019)

Just shows there are two sides to upgrades. The considerations are mostly financial but I'm sure the OP is able to weigh things up and come to his own decision based on the above comments.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Oct 2019)

It sounds like a fun project and I'd never discourage that. But whether you can do it without spending a lot of money really depends on how much you have budgeted.

What I do for things like this is to make a planning list of parts required, or possibly/probably required. Most expensive down to least. You'll soon get an idea of whether your budget fits.

Probably you will find that the shifters are top of the list.

Then the chainset/chainrings if you need to. As far as I understand (and I could be wrong) the inner dimensions of an 11s chain are the same as a 10s chain so if your chain rings are not worn out you don't necessarily need to replace them. But if they are worn and you're fitting a new cassette and chain and starting afresh with new shiny stuff then replacement rings at least - maybe a whole crankset - may be on the cards. Price up all the options.

Next things on the list will be mech(s), cassette and possible freehub/wheel costs.

Don't forget cables, bar tape, chain and any new special tools that you might need.

I fitted (well, actually I paid the LBS to do it) new R7000 11 speed last year. This was a replacement rather than an upgrade as my existing drivetrain was completely shot - many broken and worn out bits. I chose R7000 for various reasons, but the fact that it has an extra gear was incidental, it wasn't really a factor.

The result was (and is) excellent but the fact that it has an extra gear is neither here nor there. If you were to use sneaky magic to revert the number of gears to the 10 I had before, but leaving everything else the same, I doubt if I'd notice.


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## MichaelW2 (21 Oct 2019)

Personally I regard 8 speed as the apogee of transmission technology. Any more and you compromise the chain and rings in a way that requires high end metallurgy of high end groupsets to fix.


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## Vantage (22 Oct 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> Absolutely not true. The difference with the 11 speed set up, is night and day. If you shop around, particularly the second hand market, you can get all the components you need for a couple of hundred quid, and you get the satisfaction of having done the upgrade.



The top and bottom gears will be just the same. There will be more gears in between which might aid cadence but that's as far as it goes. Increased wear due to thinner chains and sprockets and increased cost due to the fact that it's just more expensive and replacing more often due to said increased wear.


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## Drago (22 Oct 2019)

I don't suffer increased wear over my 9 speed bikes. The difference seems more theoretical than actual.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Oct 2019)

Vantage said:


> The top and bottom gears will be just the same. There will be more gears in between which might aid cadence but that's as far as it goes. Increased wear due to thinner chains and sprockets and increased cost due to the fact that it's just more expensive and replacing more often due to said increased wear.



Have you actually got the two set ups to compare, I have. From what you say I doubt you have, and the difference is quite marked.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Oct 2019)

MichaelW2 said:


> Personally I regard 8 speed as the apogee of transmission technology. Any more and you compromise the chain and rings in a way that requires high end metallurgy of high end groupsets to fix.


Yes and no. For bullet proof reliability and performance combined with the least possible engineering strain on the components I’d agree. But the increasing lightness of the components as you increase the number of sprockets ( of action, as well as in weight ) and the fact that with an increased number of sprockets, as you tend towards 11 speed ( and above ) you reduce the ‘saw tooth-ness’ ( for want of a better term) in your power output, as you readjust your cadence and power across the gears, trying to keep them optimal. It’s far easier to maintain a flatter profile, with more, smaller steps, in gearing. The longer the ride, the more that counts.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Oct 2019)

You have to ask yourself what you are going to achieve by doing these sort of changes. People do not need to ride at exactly one specific cadence all the time. There is a range within which you can pedal in an efficient and comfortable manner, and for normal non-competitive riders, a couple of RPM one way or the other is going to make bugger all difference to anything. If having 11 speeds is that great, why are there so many riders who seem to manage OK with just a single gear?? OK, that's the other extreme, but it proves that it isn't essential to have loads of ratios to get around by bike, and SS riders don't need to aim for a constant cadence.
I started riding on 5 speed freewheels, and whilst I'll admit a 6 speed gives nicer ratio gaps in 4th, 5th, & 6th compared to a 5, speed, I've never felt that going beyond 6 speed was worth doing, especially as chains and cogs are only a fraction of the price of 11 speed stuff, and the fewer ratios you have and the larger the spacings between the sprockets, the more maladjustment or misalignment the system will tolerate before it gets nasty or doesn't even change gear properly. I'd be far more concerned about giving my rear mech a whack and possibly slightly bending it on an 11 speed rear end, compare to a five or six.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Oct 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You have to ask yourself what you are going to achieve by doing these sort of changes. People do not need to ride at exactly one specific cadence all the time. There is a range within which you can pedal in an efficient and comfortable manner, and for normal non-competitive riders, a couple of RPM one way or the other is going to make bugger all difference to anything.


You’re missing the point. It’s not as much about what cadence you can manage to sustain, as it is having less ‘jumps’ to which you have to adjust, as you up shift, which is a big cause of increased rider fatigue ( not to mention stress on the drivetrain).



SkipdiverJohn said:


> If having 11 speeds is that great, why are there so many riders who seem to manage OK with just a single gear??


One of the biggest advantages of riding SS, (particularly fixed wheel ) is that you don’t have as big spiked acceleration graphs, you’re graphs will be more sinusoidal, because your using your legs at least as much as your brake (s ) to slow down, and that’s far less tiring, particularly in urban riding, and that’s why a lot of courier type riders favour fixed. The more ratios you have in a differentially geared bike, the closer you can get to replicating this, whilst giving you choice of ratios if things get a bit steep.


SkipdiverJohn said:


> I started riding on 5 speed freewheels, and whilst I'll admit a 6 speed gives nicer ratio gaps in 4th, 5th, & 6th compared to a 5, speed, I've never felt that going beyond 6 speed was worth doing, especially as chains and cogs are only a fraction of the price of 11 speed stuff, and the fewer ratios you have and the larger the spacings between the sprockets, the more maladjustment or misalignment the system will tolerate before it gets nasty or doesn't even change gear properly.


Right on some of that.


SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'd be far more concerned about giving my rear mech a whack and possibly slightly bending it on an 11 speed rear end, compare to a five or six.


Yes, the 11 speed ( and above ) is less sturdy, that’s because it’s higher tolerance, and made of lighter smaller components, I don’t mind that pay off myself.


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## Nigelnightmare (1 Dec 2019)

You will be changing the chain more often as the wear limit is 0.5 on 11 speed compared to 0.75 on 8/9/10 speed.
Also they're a lot more expensive.
Normally it is recommended that you change the cassette every 2nd or 3rd chain and the 11 speed cassette's are also V/expensive.
JMTPW


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## Blue Hills (8 Dec 2019)

Re OP, don't do it!

Off to read thread but can't imagine my opinion changing.


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## cyberknight (8 Dec 2019)

n+1
i use 8 speed for commuting and its fine , jumping on 10 speed i notice fark all difference tbh apart from a little smaller jumps in gear ratios


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## Blue Hills (8 Dec 2019)

Nigelnightmare said:


> You will be changing the chain more often as the wear limit is 0.5 on 11 speed compared to 0.75 on 8/9/10 speed.
> Also they're a lot more expensive.
> Normally it is recommended that you change the cassette every 2nd or 3rd chain and the 11 speed cassette's are also V/expensive.
> JMTPW


Yes - this came up on a recent thread when there was confusion over chain checkers recommending changing at 0.5 or 0.75 - confusion resolved when it emerged, to my horror, that 11 speed needs changing at 0.5.


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## Blue Hills (8 Dec 2019)

Well have now read the full thread.

Can I ask @antnee about something you never addressed in your original post.

Why are you thinking of changing?


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Dec 2019)

All you need to know about 11 speed.


View: https://youtu.be/4xgx4k83zzc


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## Fab Foodie (8 Dec 2019)

Complete waste of money and effort....


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## si_c (15 Dec 2019)

I'm just about to go do this upgrade today on my commuter bike - 9 speed Sora R3000 to R7000 105, I don't think there will be much of a difference in the main part, but I'll feed back when I've done it.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2019)

si_c said:


> I'm just about to go do this upgrade today on my commuter bike - 9 speed Sora R3000 to R7000 105, I don't think there will be much of a difference in the main part, but I'll feed back when I've done it.


can't help but ask why you are doing it in view of your last sentence. And how will it be an "upgrade"?


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2019)

by the by the OP hasn't been back to this thread for ages and hasn't answered some key questions from folk seeking to help.


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## si_c (15 Dec 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> can't help but ask why you are doing it in view of your last sentence. And how will it be an "upgrade"?


Because it's not much more to do it and I wanted to. No other reason


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## Dogtrousers (15 Dec 2019)

si_c said:


> I'm just about to go do this upgrade today on my commuter bike - 9 speed Sora R3000 to R7000 105, I don't think there will be much of a difference in the main part, but I'll feed back when I've done it.


I can highly recommend R7000. It's excellent kit. Better than the SRAM Apex it replaced. (Well anything would have been better than that as the right shifter workings had snapped in two )


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