# Dirty water in central heating system.



## gavroche (26 Aug 2020)

We have been told by the boiler engineer that our water in the c/h is dirty now and is clogging up the heat exchanger in our boiler. Can anyone give me an idea of how much it will cost to have the system flushed and do we need specialist treatment for that?


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## Dave7 (26 Aug 2020)

gavroche said:


> We have been told by the boiler engineer that our water in the c/h is dirty now and is clogging up the heat exchanger in our boiler. Can anyone give me an idea of how much it will cost to have the system flushed and do we need specialist treatment for that?


Yes.
Had it done twice.
The whole system has to be emptied. Has to be refilled with a decent inhibitor.
TBH a decent handyman can do it (that excludes me.
I think its half a day plus the inhibitor.
Before you get it done ask yourself if any other bits need doing that would be easier with an empty system eg some decorating? New rads anywhere?


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## mistyoptic (26 Aug 2020)

We had it done some years ago “powerflushed”. big system with 16 radiators. They connected the system to a big tank outside the house a bit like a bigger version of the external heart thingy you see in hospital dramas. All the cr*p ended up outside the house in their tank. Guy said he’d never seen one as bad (probably ten years of neglect by previous owners). Fitted a Magnaclean after and that and good inhibitors have kept it clean since. We paid £446 for the flushing and new inhibitors


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## Dave7 (26 Aug 2020)

mistyoptic said:


> We had it done some years ago “powerflushed”. They connected the system to a big tank outside the house a bit like a bigger version of the external heart thingy you see in hospital dramas. All the cr*p ended up outside the house in their tank. Guy said he’d never seen one as bad (probably ten years of neglect by previous owners). Fitted a Magnaclean after and that and good inhibitors have kept it clean since. Think we paid about £200 for the flushing


Sounds good.
Ours was flushed via a rad near the conservatory and straight down the grid.
Similar price though.


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## mistyoptic (26 Aug 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Sounds good.
> Ours was flushed via a rad near the conservatory and straight down the grid.
> Similar price though.


Edited price as found the invoice


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## lazybloke (26 Aug 2020)

Always thought a powerflush was a ripoff. A local plumber is enough of a friend that his kids have been on holiday with my family more than once, but not enough of a friend to discuss powerflush charges. Surely the biggest cash-cow of plumbing. 

I diy it with mains water pressure.


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## TissoT (26 Aug 2020)

It sounds as if your system needs power flushing if its clogging up the heat exchanger
A 12 rad system will be around £400 its a specialist job.

Filling the system with a inhibitor and flushing with mains pressure will not do it
It needs to be pushed out with machine pressure.


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## slowmotion (26 Aug 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Always thought a powerflush was a ripoff. A local plumber is enough of a friend that his kids have been on holiday with my family more than once, but not enough of a friend to discuss powerflush charges. Surely the biggest cash-cow of plumbing.
> 
> I diy it with mains water pressure.


I do that too. You need to understand the plumbing layout of your central heating system, but after that it's a doddle. Saving a few hundred quid and thwarting a shameless scam is quite an incentive to me.


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## Milkfloat (26 Aug 2020)

Be very careful with a powerflush you could spring leaks all over the place. I would never have one done and would just drain, put in some cleaner And run the system then in a week or so drain and fill again with some inhibitor.


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## captain nemo1701 (27 Aug 2020)

I get my system cleaned annually (coming up in October) when I have the boiler serviced. Some years ago, I had one of those magnetic traps fitted which collects the magnetic metal gunk from inside the radiators. The plumber just disconnects it, empties it, puts it back on. Annual service/clean costs me about £100-ish including putting that special cleaning fluid inside the system. This powerflush seems a bit of a rip-off to me..


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## postman (27 Aug 2020)

Watch out don't get stung with one of these fancy power washes.We were told by Vailiant our water was grungy.It was ,black Guinness colour.So i looked and checked on power wash.Oh boy prices.Well we are lucky because we have an annual service,so our guy did it Two visits in a week,he puts something in then comes back and flushes it out.It takes a bit of time,but boy how well it worked.Find a good and well used heating engineer local to your area.Ask relatives,but do get a good one,not a mates mate.Captain Nemo and Milkfloat great suggestions.


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## Mr Celine (27 Aug 2020)

If your heat exchanger is clogged up the boiler will be kettling, which sounds like a kettle coming to the boil.


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## mickle (28 Aug 2020)

Power flushing machines are available to rent from your local tool hire outlet.


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## Milkfloat (28 Aug 2020)

mickle said:


> Power flushing machines are available to rent from your local tool hire outlet.


As are dehumidifiers when it all goes wrong.


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## gavroche (28 Aug 2020)

I have been in touch with British Gas and they are coming next Thursday to give me a quote. Better use a reputable firm I suppose, far too many charlatans out there.


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## Milkfloat (28 Aug 2020)

gavroche said:


> I have been in touch with British Gas and they are coming next Thursday to give me a quote. Better use a reputable firm I suppose, far too many charlatans out there.


And who said foreigners could not do sarcasm very well? Chapeau.


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## Globalti (28 Aug 2020)

A reputable local family-owned plumbing firm would be cheaper.


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## vickster (28 Aug 2020)

Globalti said:


> A reputable local family-owned plumbing firm would be cheaper.


And less likely to condemn your boiler so they can give you an extortionate quote for a new one...as those charalatans at BG are liable to do


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## Globalti (28 Aug 2020)

BG will slap a Dangerous notice on your boiler on the smallest pretext.


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## newts (30 Aug 2020)

gavroche said:


> I have been in touch with British Gas and they are coming next Thursday to give me a quote. Better use a reputable firm I suppose, far too many charlatans out there.


British Gas are the biggest rogues in the central heating industry! Over inflated charges & poor workmanship. 
Power Flushing is a BG cash cow & they rarely do it properly. Beware of their hard sell tactics on new (very overpriced boilers) & boiler care.
Do a postcode search on the Gas Safe website & ask around for recomendations on those local to you.


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## gavroche (30 Aug 2020)

newts said:


> British Gas are the biggest rogues in the central heating industry! Over inflated charges & poor workmanship.
> Power Flushing is a BG cash cow & they rarely do it properly. Beware of their hard sell tactics on new (very overpriced boilers) & boiler care.
> Do a postcode search on the Gas Safe website & ask around for recomendations on those local to you.


I am also contacting a local firm for a quote.


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## MrGrumpy (31 Aug 2020)

newts said:


> British Gas are the biggest rogues in the central heating industry! Over inflated charges & poor workmanship.
> Power Flushing is a BG cash cow & they rarely do it properly. Beware of their hard sell tactics on new (very overpriced boilers) & boiler care.
> Do a postcode search on the Gas Safe website & ask around for recomendations on those local to you.



Funnily enough last year we got a quote from BG for a new unvented heating system, they were the cheapest by far out of all the quotes I got. This actually scared me a bit, so i went elsewhere and negotiated a price with a local firm. I went on recommendations in the area.


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## MrGrumpy (31 Aug 2020)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I get my system cleaned annually (coming up in October) when I have the boiler serviced. Some years ago, I had one of those magnetic traps fitted which collects the magnetic metal gunk from inside the radiators. The plumber just disconnects it, empties it, puts it back on. Annual service/clean costs me about £100-ish including putting that special cleaning fluid inside the system. This powerflush seems a bit of a rip-off to me..
> View attachment 543859


 We had one of those fitted last year when the new heating system went in, can you add inhibitor into that ?


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## newts (31 Aug 2020)

A competent person doing a boiler service should be checking that there's adequate inhibitor within the heating system as part of the service, especially if they've not installed or maintained that system before.


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## newts (31 Aug 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> We had one of those fitted last year when the new heating system went in, can you add inhibitor into that ?


They should have put inhibitor in when thay installed the system, it's part of the boiler install spec. Inhibitor should last for years & not require changing annually. It can be added via the filter depending on type, you'd need to top up the pressure in the heating loop on a sealed system after.


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## MrGrumpy (31 Aug 2020)

newts said:


> They should have put inhibitor in when thay installed the system, it's part of the boiler install spec. Inhibitor should last for years & not require changing annually. It can be added via the filter depending on type, you'd need to top up the pressure in the heating loop on a sealed system after.


They did ! all flushed etc ! just im currently getting bathrooms ripped out and new radiators fitted and moved so it’s all gone down the drain ! Might just ask for it to be done again when I get the boiler serviced .


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Sep 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> We had one of those fitted last year when the new heating system went in, can you add inhibitor into that ?


Not sure, can ask my plumber. Doesn't seem to affect things though. He just empties it into his bucket!.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2020)

You can add inhibitor into the heating header tank. It's only soap, it makes the water alkaline. It might contain a tiny amount of biocide as well, I don't know.


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## G3CWI (2 Sep 2020)

slowmotion said:


> thwarting a shameless scam is quite an incentive to me


If it's a shameless scam why do you do it yourself?


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## slowmotion (2 Sep 2020)

G3CWI said:


> If it's a shameless scam why do you do it yourself?


Removing black sludge from the system is an excellent idea. Handing over five hundred notes, less so. You can easily do it yourself with sixteen quids worth of Sentinel X400 and a hose pipe.


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## gavroche (2 Sep 2020)

slowmotion said:


> Removing black sludge from the system is an excellent idea. Handing over five hundred notes, less so. You can easily do it yourself with sixteen quids worth of Sentinel X400 and a hose pipe.


and flooding the whole house? I believe some jobs are better left to professionals.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2020)

It helps if, the last time you drained the system, you added a drain cock and waste pipe to carry the water outdoors.

Smug? Moi?


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## slowmotion (2 Sep 2020)

Globalti said:


> It helps if, the last time you drained the system, you added a drain cock and waste pipe to carry the water outdoors.
> 
> Smug? Moi?


Yes indeed. That's what I did, as well as adding a temporary loop in the loft so I could poke mains pressure water directly into the CH system. To flush out the gunge, just direct the water into a given radiator by turning the radiator valves off and on.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2020)

My water is nice and clear Matron.


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## Profpointy (2 Sep 2020)

gavroche said:


> I have been in touch with British Gas and they are coming next Thursday to give me a quote. Better use a reputable firm I suppose, far too many charlatans out there.



Hang on - British Gas and "reputable firm" in the same sentence? Shome mishtake shurley

I'm being serious by the way


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2020)

slowmotion said:


> Removing black sludge from the system is an excellent idea. Handing over five hundred notes, less so. You can easily do it yourself with sixteen quids worth of Sentinel X400 and a hose pipe.



Done that myself. Usually when a rad needs to come off. Drain and refill the system, add inhibitors and anti kettle solutions.

Main rad in lounge was blocked, so that was taken outside next to grid and rinsed through with a hose.


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2020)

Globalti said:


> It helps if, the last time you drained the system, you added a drain cock and waste pipe to carry the water outdoors.
> 
> Smug? Moi?



Our kitchen rad has a drain valve, as does the lounge one. Attach hose and a jubilee clip.


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## bruce1530 (2 Sep 2020)

Profpointy said:


> Hang on - British Gas and "reputable firm" in the same sentence? Shome mishtake shurley
> 
> I'm being serious by the way


I needed a boiler replacement a couple of years ago. My pal said “we used British Gas. Cost £3500. Did a great job, fitter was a lovely guy called Clive(*), would recommend."

Wife’s pal also said "we used British Gas. Cost £3500. Did a great job, fitter was a lovely guy called Clive(*), would recommend."

British Gas came out to survey. Guess what - they quoted £3500.

I thought it was a touch pricey - was then chatting to a neighbour and asked if he knew any good gas fitters. “Have you tried Clive?"
“Is that the Clive that works for British Gas? Does he do homers?"
“It’s the same guy, but he doesn’t work for British Gas - he’s a self-employed subcontractor.” .

So Clive came out, surveyed. Asked “Have British Gas given you a quote? Was it £3500? I’ll do it for £1900, thats the cost of the boiler and what they’d pay me for my labour”. 




(*) Clive isn’t his name - if anyone in west of scotland wants a recommendation, drop me a line.

(**) the first pal, who paid BG says he actually got good value for money, cos when Clive came to do the job, he discovered that the gas pipe under the floor of the house was not up to spec, and they had to dig a trench from the front of his house round to the back for a new pipe, then relay his mono block afterwards. The BG price was fixed price, so covered all of that.


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## gavroche (3 Sep 2020)

The gas man just been to give a quote. The job will take all day including installing a magnetic filter. It will be done by BG and not by contractors and the cost is....................






£940 . 

I am waiting for an email now to confirm all this, including payment terms . 
The chap said it will never need doing again provided I clean the filter every year.

Now the ball is on my court and a decision will have to be made. 
Does anyone know the lottery numbers for next Saturday ? 

@Drago , the ebike is not on the shopping list for the foreseeable , I thought you would like to know.


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## Milkfloat (3 Sep 2020)

gavroche said:


> The gas man just been to give a quote. The job will take all day including installing a magnetic filter. It will be done by BG and not by contractors and the cost is....................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why are you surprised? Pretty much the whole thread warned you.


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## gavroche (3 Sep 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> Why are you surprised? Pretty much the whole thread warned you.


I was expecting around the £500 mark, as some members suggested.


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## slowmotion (3 Sep 2020)

gavroche said:


> I was expecting around the £500 mark, as some members suggested.


British Gas are "professionals". You can do it yourself. Just scrabble about on YouTube.


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## MrGrumpy (3 Sep 2020)

Know any local installers ? Could be cheaper? Always think boiler installs etc should be done in the warmer months ! Demand is high going into autumn/winter


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## Milkfloat (3 Sep 2020)

gavroche said:


> I was expecting around the £500 mark, as some members suggested.


Not from British Gas. Honestly, it is very unlikely you even need a powerflush. Look at cleaner and inhibitor first. Even better fit one of these https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-central-heating-water-treatment-compliance-kit/6459v


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## lazybloke (3 Sep 2020)

Also, look at reviews on Checkatrade to find a local plumber


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## newts (4 Sep 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Also, look at reviews on Checkatrade to find a local plumber


Please don't use checkatrade!!! It is a bigger scam than BG, no proper vetting. Mainly dodgy people pretending to be tradesmen/women who can't get work recommedations from previous customers.


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## lazybloke (4 Sep 2020)

newts said:


> Please don't use checkatrade!!! It is a bigger scam than BG, no proper vetting. Mainly dodgy people pretending to be tradesmen/women who can't get work recommedations from previous customers.


Well no system is perfect but the principle of checkatrade seems good. It's one of several ways to identify local plumbers (or other trades), but ultimately I narrow down that choice by a combination of gut feeling and quotes. 

What's your beef with checkatrade?


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## newts (4 Sep 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Well no system is perfect but the principle of checkatrade seems good. It's one of several ways to identify local plumbers (or other trades), but ultimately I narrow down that choice by a combination of gut feeling and quotes.
> 
> What's your beef with checkatrade?


The principal of these sites is a great idea, sadly most are just money grabbing barstewards. Part of my day job is inspecting problems with shower trays, valves & enclosures. Most issues we look at are due to poor installation.
Clients often mention these review sites as the source of their installer.


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## Hicky (1 Oct 2020)

Local plumber changed a boiler for me in my rental £1800 10 yr warranty. £100 a yr for service and landlord cert.....BG wanted me to condemn the house


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## postman (9 Oct 2020)

What is the update on the job.Did you find a local or go with BG,i would try to find a good local there must we one.


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