# Irresponsible Dog Owners!



## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Rant time - Let me say first, I do love dogs and all animals in general but...

I use a shared cycleway on my commute and it is usually full of dog walkers on my way home. I dont have a problem with this and most people take hold of their dogs when the see a cyclist approaching...but...

There are the morons that think its OK to let their yappy little stupid handbag dogs (usually orange women with ridiculous eyebrows) run around...now I will do anything to avoid a collision but if I happen to hit your dog with 15kg of my hybrid tourer and 14 stone of me on top your dog will likely die...so take your face out of your stupid phone and take some control...

Different situation Tuesday night...respectable looking gentleman with a furry crocodile (Alsatian) at the side chatting to someone without the dog on a lead..I thought nothing of it and as I passed the dog went for me...snarling and everything..I was on a uphill so couldnt outrun this thing...last resort I had to give it a quick kick in the boat race to fend it off....the bloke started moaning!....cue me questioning his parentage and his mental ability!


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2018)

This is why I tend to avoid cycle paths.


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## Drago (22 Feb 2018)

In charge of dog dangerously out of control causing fear - an offence, report it to the Bow Street Runners.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2018)

The worst is when owners are like, "Oh, he's just playing, or he's fine," when said dog is trying to take a chunk out of you. I do like dogs though - nice dogs, of which there plenty.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

You kicked a dog rather than just thinking of slowing down or stopping on a path where as a cyclist you don’t actually have priority.
Nice... not

If you don’t want to be considerate to pedestrians , use the road


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> You kicked a dog rather than just thinking of slowing down or stopping on a path where as a cyclist you don’t actually have priority.
> Nice... not
> 
> If you don’t want to be considerate to pedestrians , use the road



Ermm...the dog was trying to take a chunk out of me...I could feel its breath on my calves....so stopping would have offered it a stationary target to bite the heck out of....would you have done that?????


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> Ermm...the dog was trying to take a chunk out of me...I could feel its breath on my calves....so stopping would have offered it a stationary target to bite the heck out of....would you have done that?????


I would have called the owner or not got close to the dog in the first place

However, it is your third paragraph which is utterly unreasonable imo and pretty much defines your attitude to dogs on shared paths. Without that I might just have had some sympathy wrt the Alsatian


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> You kicked a dog rather than just thinking of slowing down or stopping on a path where as a cyclist you don’t actually have priority.



Unleashed dogs have priority over cyclists?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

Jody said:


> Unleashed dogs have priority over cyclists?


Imo yes, they are unpredictable so cyclists should behave as such. No different to small children who are even more unpredictable


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

You're right they are unpredicatable but they don't have priority over a cyclist. Treat them with respect but in the eyes of the law they are not under control if not on a lead.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

Jody said:


> You're right they are unpredicatable but they don't have priority over a cyclist. Treat them with respect but in the eyes of the law they are not under control if not on a lead.


I don’t think kicking one is terribly respectful?

The OP knows that there are dogs loose on the path but he or she continues to use it preferring to have a rant about a situation out of his or her control


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> I don’t think kicking one is terribly respectful?



Neither do I but if its trying to take a chunk out of my leg then its dangerous and not under control.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

Jody said:


> Neither do I but if its trying to take a chunk out of my leg then its dangerous and not under control.


Has the OP reported it?

As I said, overall opinion clearly expressed by OP


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Well it is an NCN too..its an ex-railway line in an urban area.. and this particlular dog and owner were over to the side and not blocking my way as i went past...when I passed this dog came at me at speed and with real ferocity...it was fast too..faster than I could pedal uphill....I love all animals and cruelty to animals is something that makes my blood boil...but when faced with getting attacked Im sorry but wether you are furry or human I am going to defend myself....I take responsibility for my own actions so if you have a big furry crocodile then you should take responsibility for that....BTW the owner didnt do anything except meekly say come her, come here....which the dog ignored!


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## Maenchi (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> Ermm...the dog was trying to take a chunk out of me...I could feel its breath on my calves....so stopping would have offered it a stationary target to bite the heck out of....would you have done that?????


just for reference; years ago when cycling slowly on a cycle path, two people talking their dogs off leads, one them comes straight at me and goes to bite my upper inner thighso...instinctively I kneed it in the jaw, it backed off the owner apologised profusely, job done....sometimes defensive tactics are needed; 
( I have two dogs of my own, and; as a habit I slow and say hello to dogs when cycling, offering a hand to sniff and maybe a stroke if it seems right)


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## Hop3y (22 Feb 2018)

This happened to me last night. My Strava title says it all:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1419047245

*“Don’t bother about my dog pal, he’ll just chase you and bark for a couple of hundred metres and give up” (Thats what the owner said to me)*


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> You kicked a dog rather than just thinking of slowing down or stopping on a path where as a cyclist you don’t actually have priority.
> Nice... not
> 
> If you don’t want to be considerate to pedestrians , use the road


Because there are no pedestrians on other roads(!)  Cycleways are roads too, anyway. Maybe you'd like all roads to have dog-activated warning signs so people can avoid dog infested roads. Or maybe people could keep their flaming dogs on leads and under control on highways.

I was attacked by a dog while cycling on a quiet residential carriageway. It ended with injury to the dog, sadly, but it was it or me. The owner didn't complain and ultimately no lasting harm done so I didn't report it. I'd probably report the example in the OP though, because it's a bigger dog out of control in a more constrained space.

Edited to replace two words with more precise ones.


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## Randomnerd (22 Feb 2018)

Don’t expect agreement, consensus or support here @hoppym27 . You would have more luck trying to commune with your furry assassins. I made the same mistake as you once - to berate a dog-owner’s ignorance for letting his mutt put me on the cinders - and vented my spleen here. To a chorus of whinging “ride slower”s and “what gives you the right to chop up a chap’s chihuahua with a tyre lever”s, 
And don’t follow any advice here either, unless it sounds litigious or dangerous (at least you’ll have fun before they arrest you). 
I’ve now built a specialist shared use path bicycle. She takes some getting going with four inch fat tyres, and the batteries for the twin air horns are heavy on the frame if I don’t attach the hydrochloride acid spray sidecar, where they sit nicely alongside my antique hedge slasher collection I just happen to have in there.
After all, cycling is all about spreading the word. And the word is “MOVE!”


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## BoldonLad (22 Feb 2018)

I do not particularly like dogs.

Dogs are OK, they seem to understand this, the feeling may even be mutual.

Dog owners on the other hand seem to have a problem understanding that not everyone shares their passion.


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Does everyone know its actually a criminal offence to not have your dog under control?...regardless of wether I was on a bike on foot or in a flaming flying saucer!


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

User said:


> Time to roll this out again I think...
> 
> View attachment 396932


Let's show our contempt for the visually-impaired by using a low-contrast badly-spaced graphic where we could have just used text


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> Does everyone know its actually a criminal offence to not have your dog under control?...regardless of wether I was on a bike on foot or in a flaming flying saucer!


Look, we don't care what the law is - if you don't want to be attacked by dogs, keep your flying saucer to the crop fields because no-one takes their dogs to fields(!)


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## snorri (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> Imo yes, they are unpredictable so cyclists should behave as such. No different to small children who are even more unpredictable


If the dog is unpredictable it shouldn't be on a shared path, 
Shared path use requires the cooperation of all users to work successfully, if dogs can't fit in to this sharing principle, then their owners should take appropriate action to closely control them or keep them away from shared paths.
The comparison between dogs and small children makes no sense.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

"Rule 56
Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders."


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

[QUOTE 5159773, member: 9609"]some of the most dangerous and uncaring people I have ever had the misfortune to meet are cyclists on cycle paths[/QUOTE]

Its the ones on the cycle paths you have to watch out for. A ghastly breed of cyclist.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> Well it is an NCN too..its an ex-railway line in an urban area.. and this particlular dog and owner were over to the side and not blocking my way as i went past...when I passed this dog came at me at speed and with real ferocity...it was fast too..faster than I could pedal uphill....I love all animals and cruelty to animals is something that makes my blood boil...but when faced with getting attacked Im sorry but wether you are furry or human I am going to defend myself....I take responsibility for my own actions so if you have a big furry crocodile then you should take responsibility for that....BTW the owner didnt do anything except meekly say come her, come here....which the dog ignored!


Any dog that an owner knows is liable to chase should be on a lead. Far as I'm concerned if a dog goes for you it's self defence not cruelty to animals or whatever.


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## benb (22 Feb 2018)

So a dog attacks the OP, the OP defends himself, and some people are piling into him saying he shouldn't have done it?

Get a grip you lot.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

[QUOTE 5159773, member: 9609"]some of the most dangerous and uncaring people I have ever had the misfortune to meet are cyclists on cycle paths[/QUOTE]
Is that a random interjection or implied insult of the OP's behaviour?


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## Lavender Rose (22 Feb 2018)

Yes, I had an incident with a dog a couple of weeks ago...a lady was walking two of them, two spaniels - one on a lead and the other was not, she was on the phone and it was all a bit mad, I cycled past (this was a country lane, she was on one side and I was on the other)

The dog off the lead chased me and scratched the back of my calf, really hurt actually - despite wearing cycle leggings and knee high ski socks!

I love dogs too, and sometimes you don't know whether they react from aggressive or nerves? But yes, I do wish owners were a little more conscientious


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Let's see:
> Low to the ground - check
> A bit stupid - check
> Unpredictable - check
> ...


Big difference in that one tends to smile and laugh when you ring the bell, while the other just looks and decides whether it thinks it can eat you or hump you or you'll eat it... and the children tend not to eat or hump bikes.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2018)

benb said:


> So a dog attacks the OP, the OP defends himself, and some people are piling into him saying he shouldn't have done it?
> 
> Get a grip you lot.


This should be the last word. Close the thread now mods


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

mjr said:


> and the children tend not to eat or hump bikes.



Depends on where you live


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

My, some of you live in much scarier places than Norfolk!


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

Can you imagine the fury in the press if we put up the equivalent of these Dutch cycleway/footway reminder signs?


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## smutchin (22 Feb 2018)

Jody said:


> in the eyes of the law they are not under control if not on a lead



Not strictly true. A dog will be considered to be "under control" if it returns to the owner when called. Obviously not the case for the OP, but I'm wary of taking his account at face value - it sounds like the dog's reaction was due to being startled. But ultimately, yes, it is the dog owner's responsibility to ensure that the dog is under control at all times, whether that's on the lead or off it. It would be simpler to have a blanket rule that dogs should be kept on the lead in public places but as @mjr says, that's not going to go down well with a nation of dog lovers.

I've always been wary of dogs since an incident when I was a young child, but became a dog owner just over a year ago for the first time, and it has opened my eyes in a big way. I have come to realise that a lot of my problems with dogs are down to my own behaviour towards them. It has certainly changed the way I ride on shared paths when there are dogs around.

Our dog does have a tendency to jump up and bark at cyclists, but that's why we do always keep him on a short lead whenever we're likely to encounter cyclists. And we're trying to train it out of him. More than anything else, I don't want him to get kicked.


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

My main point is this..... if you are walking your dog where you know cyclists are going to be in abundance it is your own personal responsibility to ensure your dog isnt a danger or hindrance to others....the same personal responsibility I take when cycling on the same path i.e riding slower, ringing my bell to alert people im there and covering my brakes.....surely thats not too much to ask?


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## Cycleops (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> You kicked a dog rather than just thinking of slowing down or stopping on a path where as a cyclist you don’t actually have priority.
> Nice... not


It’s only what the dog would have got in kind if had it tried it on one of its own. Sometimes ‘Down Shep’ doesn’t really cut it.


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## BoldonLad (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> My main point is this..... if you are walking your dog where you know cyclists are going to be in abundance it is your own personal responsibility to ensure your dog isnt a danger or hindrance to others....the same personal responsibility I take when cycling on the same path i.e riding slower, ringing my bell to alert people im there and covering my brakes.....surely thats not too much to ask?



Exactly! Consideration or Respect is a two way process.


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## Maenchi (22 Feb 2018)

dogs and small children can both just decide to run straight at you ..................why?........


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## kingrollo (22 Feb 2018)

I am a dog owner as well as a cyclist.
IME I think Dog Owners are the exact opposite of cyclists in that they a get a very good press - and hardly ever get called to book.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

Maenchi said:


> dogs and small children can both just decide to run straight at you ..................why?........


I don't remember small children ever running straight at me, but I guess bikes are commonplace here and they grow up learning how to interact. Unlike dogs, which never learn except when the pack leader (hopefully the owner) wants to teach them.

I remember riding along a small no-through-motors residential street and a maybe 7yo girl was playing in the road. Her mother told her to beware as I passed or similar and the child replied "don't be silly, Mummy, it's a bike and I'm not too close" (she was about 3m away). Human-scale transport


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## snorri (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Let's see:
> Low to the ground - check
> A bit stupid - check
> Unpredictable - check
> ...


You conveniently missed out that all to regular newspaper headline "Man hospitalised after random attack by toddler" - check.


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## Cycleops (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> We expect give and take on the roads, but as soon as it comes to shared use paths it's "Poop poop, out of the way! Here comes an entitled cyclist"


Don’t get us started on poop.


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## glasgowcyclist (22 Feb 2018)

vickster said:


> The OP knows that there are dogs loose on the path but...



The dog owner knows it's a shared path too so he should have his dog under proper control.

If I'm being attacked and escape isn't feasible, I'll fight back. If that means kicking my attacker that's too bad.

Some dogs are very fast runners and I'm not going to be forced to ride fast, in a panic, putting me (and possibly others) at further risk. 
Sorry, but the threatening dog will get a dose of aversion therapy.


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## guitarpete247 (22 Feb 2018)

How many of the "dog freedom" supporters, on here, react the same way when they see a dog run out into the peleton.
Plus we had a selfish owner reaction a few years ago when walking with granddaughters along Dovedale. We were in a section that had signs to keep dogs on leads. GD's wanted to walk up a narrow path off the main track. It gets up to 2m above main path. We were walking below them in case of either slipping when a family with 2 dogs running all around them. Dogs spotted the girls and ran up the track towards them. Having had poor previous experience with dogs the GD's were nervous. As dogs charged towards them I ran up the embankment while the missus gave the twonk of an owner (who had 2 leads round his neck) a piece of her mind. The owner gave us the "They won't hurt them".
They may not bite them but if we weren't close by, causing a 4 & 7 year old to fall 2m certainly would have.
I have other stories of inconsiderate owners that could have lead to serious injury if we or parents hadn't been on the ball.


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## smutchin (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> There seems to be a good deal of cake-and-eatery going on here (not necessarily in the post quoted above. This is a more general comment). We expect give and take on the roads, but as soon as it comes to shared use paths it's "Poop poop, out of the way! Here comes an entitled cyclist"



It's funny, I've been involved in a similar discussion elsewhere with regard to motorists using their horn to "warn" cyclists who are blocking their way that they want to get past. In that situation, it's the cyclists who are the out-of-control menace.

There are so many underlying assumptions and prejudices behind these confrontations, driven by a divisive "us and them" mentality. I also note the OP's casual misogyny (the reductive "orange women with ridiculous eyebrows").

Anyone who genuinely believes in the "shared" part of the "shared path" equation should try to think of it less as two distinct groups of users sharing one space, rather as a shared experience involving lots of individuals interacting with each other.


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## PeteXXX (22 Feb 2018)

Signs on the St Ives to Cambridge path alongside the guided bus route.
No dog on the sign, but still...


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## Lavender Rose (22 Feb 2018)

I have to say it is the most frustrating thing to see when I am abiding by the rules and cycling on the cycle path marked for me, then there's kids, dogs, people on the cycle path - WHEN THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM ON YOUR OWN PATHWAY.

People would kick the fu*k off if I started swerving around on my bike on the Pedestrian path! GGGRRRR GRINDS MY GEARS!


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

. I also note the OP's casual misogyny (the reductive "orange women with ridiculous eyebrows").

This isnt misogyny...its a genuine observation...I ride through wannabee cheshirite land.....


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## glasgowcyclist (22 Feb 2018)

Charlotte Alice Button said:


> I have to say it is the most frustrating thing to see when I am abiding by the rules and cycling on the cycle path marked for me, then there's kids, dogs, people on the cycle path - WHEN THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM ON YOUR OWN PATHWAY.
> 
> People would kick the fu*k off if I started swerving around on my bike on the Pedestrian path! GGGRRRR GRINDS MY GEARS!



As I understand it, on a path where there is demarcation for cycling, cyclists must keep to the area marked for them while the entire path is available to pedestrians.


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## Lavender Rose (22 Feb 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> As I understand it, on a path where there is demarcation for cycling, cyclists must keep to the area marked for them while the entire path is available to pedestrians.



Yes and then I get remarks and cursed because I ask very politely, if I can come through...


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## guitarpete247 (22 Feb 2018)

Don't go within a couple of miles of a secondary school at either end of the school day. If you do you'll have kids, boys usually, walking in the road and giving you the finger into the bargain.
What is the opposite of misogyny? As I have suggested it is usually boys I must be guilty of it.


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## smutchin (22 Feb 2018)

hoppym27 said:


> . I also note the OP's casual misogyny (the reductive "orange women with ridiculous eyebrows").
> 
> This isnt misogyny...its a genuine observation...I ride through wannabee cheshirite land.....



It's reductive and demeaning, and irrelevant to your story.


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## Lavender Rose (22 Feb 2018)

smutchin said:


> It's reductive and demeaning, and irrelevant to your story.



I kinda found it amusing to be honest....


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> As I understand it, on a path where there is demarcation for cycling, cyclists must keep to the area marked for them while the entire path is available to pedestrians.


However, one case where a camera-using cyclist refused to pay the fine for leaving a substandard cycleway and infringing the footway was decided to be "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Make of that what you will.

I have very mixed feelings about cycleways with adjacent footways for this sort of reason, that people can and do still walk on both, so it's probably better to have the full width available to both for people to sort it out themselves. One I can remember near me had its white line removed nearly 20 years ago and there seems pretty much no chance of the councils spending money on the white paint to reintroduce it. The few remaining ones are the responsibility of Highways England and they are basically ignored: the 1.5m cycleways are too narrow for the current volume of traffic, the cycleway is counterintuitively OUTSIDE the footway (because otherwise it would be too difficult to make some of the tight turns needed to cross side roads), and now many people treat the white lines as centre lines, keeping left of it except where turning circles encourage otherwise, with walkers almost always using the outer edge, furthest away from motorists.

I know cycleways with adjacent footways work in other countries. Even in other cities like Cambridge. But would they work in much of the UK? People walking do tend to ignore signs we don't like...


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Surely its only reductive, deamining and irrelevent if its not true?..and it is true


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## Sharky (22 Feb 2018)

The great late Jonny Helms drew some great "Cyclists & Dogs" cartoons. There were a couple of books published back in the 80's with some great examples.

There is one on this tribute site
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/helms-a-tribute-64689


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## Maenchi (22 Feb 2018)

Anybody remember the advice given in 'Richards Bicycle Book' ? about dogs .... in it he wrote, something like (from memory) 'when attacked by a dog, dismount, remove pump from bike and hold up with both hands, most dogs will jump up to bite this, then deliver a swift kick to the dogs(' nuts')....belly, underside,( I forget this bit.......this is from the 1970s and my copy got lost somewhere in the 1980s,) I thought this was odd advice at the time, although the book was considered a good book....


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## Maenchi (22 Feb 2018)

mjr said:


> I don't remember small children ever running straight at me, but I guess bikes are commonplace here and they grow up learning how to interact. Unlike dogs, which never learn except when the pack leader (hopefully the owner) wants to teach them.
> 
> I remember riding along a small no-through-motors residential street and a maybe 7yo girl was playing in the road. Her mother told her to beware as I passed or similar and the child replied "don't be silly, Mummy, it's a bike and I'm not too close" (she was about 3m away). Human-scale transport


'Small children' ie; under 3, or toddlers, just learning to walk, not a common occurrence, but it has happened...


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Perhaps I should have said..'.these artificially skin toned ladies with sculpted body hair features observing their multi media device intensely'


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## vickster (22 Feb 2018)

Maenchi said:


> 'Small children' ie; under 3, or toddlers, just learning to walk, not a common occurrence, but it has happened...


Or on scooters or learning to cycle / Cycling in a wobbly unpredictable way are a frequent occurrence on shared paths or cycle paths in SW London at least


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## Drago (22 Feb 2018)

Maenchi said:


> Anybody remember the advice given in 'Richards Bicycle Book' ? about dogs .... in it he wrote, something like (from memory) 'when attacked by a dog, dismount, remove pump from bike and hold up with both hands, most dogs will jump up to bite this, then deliver a swift kick to the dogs(' nuts')....belly, underside,( I forget this bit.......this is from the 1970s and my copy got lost somewhere in the 1980s,) I thought this was odd advice at the time, although the book was considered a good book....



Does the tactic work with CO2 caplets?


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## glasgowcyclist (22 Feb 2018)

The use of toddlers on a route as a comparison to the incident the OP suffered is quite the red herring.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

Drago said:


> Does the tactic work with CO2 caplets?


Have you ever been attacked by a CO2 caplet?


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## smutchin (22 Feb 2018)

Drago said:


> Does the tactic work with CO2 caplets?



I suppose freezing the dog solid would stop it coming at you quite effectively.


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## Maenchi (22 Feb 2018)

Drago said:


> Does the tactic work with CO2 caplets?


.....maybe...


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## Lavender Rose (22 Feb 2018)

smutchin said:


> I suppose freezing the dog solid would stop it coming at you quite effectively.



I would much rather be hit by soft poop, rather than a rock hard turd


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Maybe I could have dismounted...unattached my pump from the frame mounting...screwed in the hose thingy to the end...sucked up water from a neaby puddle and squirted it at the dog...like a mini water cannon....

(whilst not commenting on the dogs looks - that would be offensive...apparantly)


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

[QUOTE 5159974, member: 259"]Alsatians are big, strong dogs and they can do someone a serious injury.[/QUOTE]

I had a friend who literally had a chunk taken out the back of his leg by such a dog. Cost him a month in hospital and more than one skin graft. There are good reasons why police use this type of dog.


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## confusedcyclist (22 Feb 2018)

I own an Alsation, and if he ran after a cyclist snarling, I wouldn't be surprised or angry about someone trying to defend themselves with reasonable force. I'd be more angry at the dog. Probably would have kicked it myself on behalf of the cyclist (kidding!).


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## Heltor Chasca (22 Feb 2018)

I have had the good fortune of being bitten by many breeds of dogs mainly due to cycling home from school in lands further away than these and being amongst communities with very different attitudes to canines than our western ideologies.

My favourite collection of bites were received when I crashed on some dusty single track (ok footpath) outside a sprawl of a colonial mansion. Two dobermans got out and had me for lunch. A passer by scared the dogs off and I lived to tell the tale right here on Cycle Chat.

My second favourite incedent was when I fell off a farm fence I was climbing at 6 o’ clock in the morning. I won’t tell you why. Sadly I fell into the wrong property and got attacked by two guard dogs (yellow labs) they tore most of my clothes off. 

Lovely stories hey?


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## benb (22 Feb 2018)

Why are people conflating the OP's reasonable and justified self-defence against a dog attack with cyclists' responsibility to cycle safely round pedestrians (and dogs) on shared use paths?

The OP was not guilty of cycling selfishly round pedestrians (or dogs) so why is that being raised?


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

Just to add...I love Alsatians, they are on a par as my favourite dog along with sausage dogs.... but you have to remember they are dogs bred hundreds of years ago to protect livestock from wolves and other predators and sometimes regardless of how well natured they are their instinct kicks in... like my instinct to kick the dog in this instance...i made a split second decision that I wasnt able to outrun this dog up a hill and it was only a matter of seconds before it sank its teeth in..so i defended myself with the minimum force I felt was necessary....my anger that I felt was for the owner..not the dog....the owner was stupid/naive/irresponsible to think it would just stand there and ignore me cycling past


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not really relevant, but I used to know someone who had an alsatian that was scared of wet grass. He'd sit in the back of their estate car looking fearfully out. "I can't go out there. That grass is _wet_"



We are on about dogs biting and the OP is specifically on about Alsatians. I would say it has some relevance. They will make more of a mess than a yorkie or a pug.


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## hoppym27 (22 Feb 2018)

A yorkie or a pug wouldnt have hurt me to the extent this dog would have but it could have got caught up in my wheels and caused itself some damage....

note my thread is called irresponsible dog owners..not All dog owners...


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## Jody (22 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I meant that my story about the alsation who was scared of wet grass wasn't really relevant. I can see the relevance of your post.



My bad. Apologies @Dogtrousers Just re-read it when not on the phone


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## gavroche (23 Feb 2018)

I believe self-defence is still legal in this country and that's what the OP was doing. It doesn't matter if it is a dog or anything else. I fell off my bike a while back because of a dog running loose . I gave the owner a piece of my mind then for not having it on lease. I , too, love animals, but they should be controlled in public places.


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## confusedcyclist (23 Feb 2018)

gavroche said:


> I believe self-defence is still legal in this country and that's what the OP was doing.



Better be, or I might be in trouble for shooting all those EVIL pigeons on my route home from work. It's a right pain when they shite on your bike.


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## User32269 (23 Feb 2018)

I don't love dogs. I have no problem with people who feel the need to have them, so long as they act responsibly.
I take my son up the Liverpool Loop Line cycleway often, sharing it with many people who cannot, or will not, control their dogs. My son, who rides slowly and courteously on shared paths, has been reduced to crying with terror twice as a result of encounters with dogs. 
I view large dogs as dangerous weapons. They are capable of killing or maiming my young lad or myself. Failure to be in control of something, in a public space, that has that capacity to cause injury or death should be punished as if that person had discharged a firearm imo.
The vast majority of dog owners are decent people who love their pets and act responsibly, unfortunately the minority of morons with dogs cause the problems.
Do I think the OP was wrong to kick a large dog trying to take a chunk out of him? No! In all honesty I would have been reaching for my D lock. Given the damage these animals can inflict, you have every right to protect yourself.


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## BoldonLad (23 Feb 2018)

odav said:


> I don't love dogs. I have no problem with people who feel the need to have them, so long as they act responsibly.
> I take my son up the Liverpool Loop Line cycleway often, sharing it with many people who cannot, or will not, control their dogs. My son, who rides slowly and courteously on shared paths, has been reduced to crying with terror twice as a result of encounters with dogs.
> I view large dogs as dangerous weapons. They are capable of killing or maiming my young lad or myself. Failure to be in control of something, in a public space, that has that capacity to cause injury or death should be punished as if that person had discharged a firearm imo.
> The vast majority of dog owners are decent people who love their pets and act responsibly, unfortunately the minority of morons with dogs cause the problems.
> Do I think the OP was wrong to kick a large dog trying to take a chunk out of him? No! In all honesty I would have been reaching for my D lock. Given the damage these animals can inflict, you have every right to protect yourself.



A reasonable, fair and balanced point of view. IMHO.


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## crazyjoe101 (28 Feb 2018)

If I'm cycling somewhere where there are dogs off the lead I keep my speed down and I make sure I go past way below 10mph in case one runs into my path and I've not run one over yet, if the owner holds or calls their dog aside it's a bonus but I'm still going to go past slow. I've never been attacked by a dog on or off a bike but if I was I'd rather kick the dog than get a chunk taken out of me.

We used to have a German Shepherd that I took with me when I went MTBing locally, he was very gentle around people but doubtless he used to give some people a fright when my Mum walked him because if he saw a cyclist he would be convinced it was me from a distance and shoot off straight at them like a rocket and then suddenly stop dead a few feet away and wonder off again when he realised.


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## confusedcyclist (28 Feb 2018)

You can't even go sledding without a snarling beast chasing you downhill.


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## benb (28 Feb 2018)

I once got bit on the arse by a German Shepherd
He apologised though, and even let me pet his dog


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## hennbell (28 Feb 2018)

I once while riding on a bike path was accosted by a fur ball ankle biter. It ran out of its yard to attack me. With its owner watching I un-clipped my right foot and lazily swung a kick of self defense. Unfortunately I caught it a bit harder then I intended. The dog flipped in the air and went running back to mum. The dear lady expressed her contempt at my awful behavior I let her know that if shes keeps her dog on a leash she will never have to worry about it happening again


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## Salty seadog (1 Mar 2018)

guitarpete247 said:


> What is the opposite of misogyny



Misandry.


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Misandry.



<QI klaxon> 

The opposite of misogyny is being respectful to women.


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## Salty seadog (1 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> <QI klaxon>
> 
> The opposite of misogyny is being respectful to women.



Pedant v pedant, in the context of the question that is the answer being sought.


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Pedant v pedant, in the context of the question that is the answer being sought.



I know, but I couldn't resist the excuse to be a pedant. 

And the only reason I didn't make the same reply earlier was because it was an entirely fatuous question.


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## AndyCh (1 Mar 2018)

Owners should always be aware of what their dogs are up to and watch for cyclists on a shared path and try to make sure they don't get in the way. I say try to, because my dog is generally ok and will keep out the way if I call her, but, i) she is very stupid, and ii) if she sees a squirrel or such like, she will be off after it and won't always come back if called. This is my responsibility I know, but being open about it, i can't guarantee she is always fully under control.

This makes me a bit cautious when cycling around dogs, as they are unpredictable, and suggest everyone is the same. Add to that, a mate of mine had a coming together with a dog on his bike (he didn't even see it coming for him as it came from side/behind) and the dogs front leg went into his spokes and was sliced clean off. He came catapulting off his bike and you can imagine the hullabaloo after that little scrape. Everyone was pretty shaken, including peg legged fido.

Point of my post is, be a bit careful on your bikes, and if you are a dog owner, do whatever you can to keep your dog away from bikes, for the sake of all concerned.

PS. I would have also kicked the attacking dog, and wouldn't mind if someone did the same to my mutt if it was being a pest/dangerous.


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

I was walking my dog in the woods a couple of days ago and had let him off the lead for a run around. It was quiet and there was no one else around. However, I then noticed in the distance a group of cyclists approaching (it's a dead straight path so I saw them from quite a long way off), so I called him back to put his lead on him but unfortunately he spotted them before I got the chance and ran off towards them.

Fortunately, they slowed right down and were very friendly towards him, even when he started barking at them. I managed to grab him and put his lead back on him, apologised profusely to the cyclists and then we all went on our way. I felt bad about having inconvenienced them like that, and appreciate that I was strictly in the wrong for letting my dog out of control, but I was very grateful that the cyclists were so good-natured about it. Had they responded by not slowing down and/or kicking him, it might have exacerbated the situation and made it more likely that he would have bitten one of them. OK, so they had to slow down for a few moments but as far as I can tell, the experience didn't spoil their ride or significantly inconvenience them.

And so the sum of human happiness was increased by a small but significant amount.


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## AndyCh (1 Mar 2018)

Good one smutchin, common sense all round. Good thing is that you were at least trying to get him to come back and eventually got him on a lead. I think it is those that just let their dog run around without any attempt to control that them really pees people off (well, me anyway).


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

AndyCh said:


> I think it is those that just let their dog run around without any attempt to control that them really pees people off (well, me anyway).



Agreed. And it's even more important if it's a big dog. Fortunately, my dog is quite small (terrier) so it limits the amount of damage he can do - although I'm sure he could still knock a cyclist off their bike, I know from experience that it doesn't take much...


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## mjr (1 Mar 2018)

AndyCh said:


> This is my responsibility I know, but being open about it, i can't guarantee she is always fully under control.


Why not? Surely you could if you kept her on a lead on highways?


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## AndyCh (1 Mar 2018)

I'm thinking in the park, where she is running around, but a cycle lane runs through the middle. The dog doesn't understand the concept of cycle lanes, a bit like uber drivers


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

The real question for me is whether control in this context needs to be absolute or relative. In many situations, it really does need to be absolute, but in some situations you can afford to be a bit more relaxed about it. Unfortunately, even in situations when it's appropriate to be more relaxed about it, you can sometimes get caught out.

It helps if cyclists are more relaxed about it as well, as per my experience the other day, rather than dogmatically enforcing their right to be in the right.


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## Duffy (1 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> The real question for me is whether control in this context needs to be absolute or relative. In many situations, it really does need to be absolute, but in some situations you can afford to be a bit more relaxed about it. Unfortunately, even in situations when it's appropriate to be more relaxed about it, you can sometimes get caught out.
> 
> It helps if cyclists are more relaxed about it as well, as per my experience the other day, rather than dogmatically enforcing their right to be in the right.



Dogmatically..............

I can see which side you're batting for.


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)




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## mjr (1 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> View attachment 398054


Idéfix!


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## smutchin (1 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> Idéfix!



One of those rare examples where the joke is even better in translation.


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## captain nemo1701 (7 Mar 2018)

In many years of commuting down the Bristol Railway Path I have witnessed two accidents (well, saw the aftermath of one, actually did see the second) both caused by dogs off leads. The first required paramedics, the second saw a dog run onto the path causing a female cyclist to swerve & part company with her steed. Luckily, yours truly (works first aider) was cycling up towards her and came to help. She was slightly bruised but otherwise OK. While I was chatting to her, dog owner put the beast back onto the lead and buggered off without any apology.

If you cycle in Bristol, you'll be aware of the rabid anti cycling mob who turn up on the local tabloid rag website every time they feature an item about the B2B path. According to the great unwashed, any accident is the fault of speeding cyclists whereas pedestrians, including dog walkers, apparently never put a foot wrong.....Don't get me started on texting zombies, MP3 addicts, dog poo bags on trees etc, etc. It's a shared space, but according to some, all the blame rests on the cycling community. Er, no. If you venture onto it, you are also responsible for the safety of others as well as your own. Some people seem incapable of grasping this idea.


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## Inertia (7 Mar 2018)

captain nemo1701 said:


> In many years of commuting down the Bristol Railway Path I have witnessed two accidents (well, saw the aftermath of one, actually did see the second) both caused by dogs off leads. The first required paramedics, the second saw a dog run onto the path causing a female cyclist to swerve & part company with her steed. Luckily, yours truly (works first aider) was cycling up towards her and came to help. She was slightly bruised but otherwise OK. While I was chatting to her, dog owner put the beast back onto the lead and buggered off without any apology.
> 
> If you cycle in Bristol, you'll be aware of the rabid anti cycling mob who turn up on the local tabloid rag website every time they feature an item about the B2B path. According to the great unwashed, any accident is the fault of speeding cyclists whereas pedestrians, including dog walkers, apparently never put a foot wrong.....Don't get me started on texting zombies, MP3 addicts, dog poo bags on trees etc, etc. It's a shared space, but according to some, all the blame rests on the cycling community. Er, no. If you venture onto it, you are also responsible for the safety of others as well as your own. Some people seem incapable of grasping this idea.


So you saw the aftermath of one incident and blamed the dog. The other has a cyclist who had to bail to avoid hitting a dog.

Maybe the dog should have been on a lead but the cyclist also has some responsibility herself.

I've passed lots of dogs over the years, on and off the lead and have managed to never hit any of them, and stay on my bike.

I've also passed lots of people texting, listening to their MP3 and yes its my responsibility to not hit them.


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## captain nemo1701 (7 Mar 2018)

Inertia said:


> So you saw the aftermath of one incident and blamed the dog. The other has a cyclist who had to bail to avoid hitting a dog.
> 
> Maybe the dog should have been on a lead but the cyclist also has some responsibility herself.
> 
> ...



The first incident was caused by the dog and the owner admitted it. The cyclist was on the floor, having flipped over the handlebars and broke his arm. I offered first aid (I carry a kit as standard) but the paramedic turned up a couple of minutes later.

The second incident had the dog run out into the path and the lady swerved but was going slowly. She overcompensated and fell off at about 4 to 5mph. Clearly, the dog owner should not have let his pet run down the access ramp onto the path like that, rather like a small child running out into a road. She did her best, but wobbled off. The least the dog owner could have done was apologise.

I have also passed many people listening to MP3 players, texting etc without incident. But on the B2B path, a lot of it is width-restricted in cuttings with little room for 'evasive action'. My point is quite simple, I am exercising my responsibility not to hit pedestrians but also _they have an equal responsibility _to look where they are heading in a shared use space. Would anyone, say, stop in the middle of a road while crossing it to update Facebook?.

Texting seems to be an issue elsewhere:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-zombies-the-scourge-text-messaging-in-public
I understand in China, they now have 'texting lanes'. And in Germany, they now have red/green LEDS in the kerb to show texting zombies when it's safe to cross.


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## glasgowcyclist (7 Mar 2018)

If I'm being attacked and escape isn't feasible, I'll fight back. If that means kicking my attacker that's too bad.

Some dogs are very fast runners and I'm not going to be forced to ride faster than I'd want to, in a panic, putting me (and possibly others) at further risk. Sorry, but the dog will get a dose of aversion therapy.

I had it once riding through a local park (on a road); an unleashed doberman monster came hurtling at me from a field ahead and to my right. The speed he was going, I couldn't have outpaced him so I stopped, dismounted and kept my bike bewteen us as he snarled, lunged and barked. The useless owner gave all sorts of baby-talk 'commands' to it but it was after my blood.

After asking the owner twice to get it under control, which she failed to do, I whacked it on the nose with my pump. It backed off a bit but kept barking and the owner got all uppity at me.

Do these people not understand the sheer terror a person experiences when faced with a wildly snarling and snapping attack dog?


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## Phaeton (7 Mar 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Do these people not understand the sheer terror a person experiences when faced with a wildly snarling and snapping attack dog?


Nope


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## Jody (7 Mar 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Do these people not understand the sheer terror a person experiences when faced with a wildly snarling and snapping attack dog?



My mum is scared of soft dogs never mind snarling ones.


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## Time Waster (7 Mar 2018)

If that's the case it's an offence I believe so report it. Kick the mutt and report it rather than whinging about it. That's what I'd do as a dog owning cyclist.

However whinging about every little incident gets you nowhere. All users of mixed use paths need to be responsible. On such paths near me there's irresponsibly on all sides but you only get one side of a story on a special interest forum.

BTW if you're driving do you have the same view about cyclists getting in your way? It seems to me that a loy of the anti dog anti pedestrian rants on this thread seem to mirror motorists rants about cyclists. I'm still waiting for a comment about dogs having road tax and number plates for their dogs!

If you were interested my rants include dog owners seeing you coming on your bike and telling you that "it's OK, he's friendly" just as I'm trying to work out which way the dog is going. Pedestrians who walk obliviously towards one side of the path only to suddenly cross right the way to the other side where I am about to reach that point, so you move to avoid and they suddenly move to your avoidance path. The other pet rant is the cyclists who ride at a speed that's inappropriate to what is around them. I know what is inappropriate because I ride the same stretches and face the same risks as a cyclist and a pedestrian.

BTW I don't know that Bristol path so perhaps someone who does can enlighten me. It's a mixed use path I take it that's popular with all legitimate users of that type of route. What is the visibility along that path like? What speeds do cyclists do? How popular or busy are they with the different user types? 

My questions relate back to my experience of my local mixed use paths. Certain times of the day they get different user ratios. In the rush hour you get cyclists going faster than mid afternoon. So there's less conflict or risk of it outside of rush hours. Similarly with texting zombies. Less likely outside of rush hour times. It seems to me that the more we have to be somewhere, the more we come into conflict with other users. Leave earlier for work and take it easy. Or walk your dog at quiet times. Better to avoid conflict IMHO.


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## Inertia (7 Mar 2018)

captain nemo1701 said:


> The first incident was caused by the dog and the owner admitted it. The cyclist was on the floor, having flipped over the handlebars and broke his arm. I offered first aid (I carry a kit as standard) but the paramedic turned up a couple of minutes later.
> 
> The second incident had the dog run out into the path and the lady swerved but was going slowly. She overcompensated and fell off at about 4 to 5mph. Clearly, the dog owner should not have let his pet run down the access ramp onto the path like that, rather like a small child running out into a road. She did her best, but wobbled off. The least the dog owner could have done was apologise.
> 
> ...


I'm not excusing dangerous dogs and if a dog is running round a cyclist then the owner should get it under control.

I didn't mean to have a go at you, I think your view reminded me of people complaining about cyclists appearing from nowhere, blaming them for the collusion. Dogs, like cyclists don't usually appear out of nowhere.

I also realise though, that not everyone is not great around dogs and what seems straight forward to me (putting your foot down and stopping) is not obvious to someone in a panic.


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## captain nemo1701 (7 Mar 2018)

Inertia said:


> I'm not excusing dangerous dogs and if a dog is running round a cyclist then the owner should get it under control.
> 
> I didn't mean to have a go at you, I think your view reminded me of people complaining about cyclists appearing from nowhere, blaming them for the collusion. Dogs, like cyclists don't usually appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I also realise though, that not everyone is not great around dogs and what seems straight forward to me (putting your foot down and stopping) is not obvious to someone in a panic.



Thanks for the reply and apologies if I seemed a bit harsh. The local tabloid readers around here seem to put 100% of the responsibility onto cyclists, which irritates me. Ironically, on my commute home along the path tonight, dog running loose with owner nowhere to be seen.


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## Nigeyy (7 Mar 2018)

Oh dear, this is one of those subjects best avoided: pets, religion, politics and your kids. Of course I'd rather not kick a dog (never have) but if under threat and I had no option, yes I would. Of course "no option" sometimes isn't clear, but if a dog is snarling and looks like it's going to bite and the owner's making no attempt to restrain it, that would be good enough for me. For full disclosure, I'm not exactly a dog lover, but do like them. My family has had dogs before.

Interestingly about a year ago I was attacked by a dog, mtbing. I tried to put the bike between me and the dog and it ran around and got a good bite of my calf. It happened so quickly I couldn't defend myself, but had it tried it again, I would have definitely kicked the bloody thing I'll guarantee that. At least the owner gave me details and paid for my medical expenses. And I definitely did report it to the police, giving all the owner's details. Why? Because earlier in the ride I'd gone by a 10-12 year old girl. I'd want it documented every time a dog attacks so at least there's a record that can help decide if a dog has previous history should be put down. As I said, I like dogs, but as far as I'm concerned if a dog bites without good cause it should be goner. Next time it might not be an overweight balding middle aged cyclist. 

And what did the owner say? "he just doesn't like cyclists". Fortunately he was apologetic after that comment because I wasn't impressed to say the least as he was walking a dog that doesn't like cyclists off leash in an area frequented by mtbers..... Anyway, sad to see some of the dog lover's responses here, seems like dogs (any dogs) are far more important than people who are unlucky enough to encounter uncontrolled aggressive dogs.


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## Randombiker9 (27 Mar 2018)

Every time i go to town, I use a shared cycle path which has dogs and Ducks
Ducks just fly out of the way when they see a cyclist. Whenever the owners are near the dogs. They always try to get the dog out of the way. Although sometimes dogs just decide to run into your path. Although the last time i used the path there was a dog that looked like it was chasing me but when i cycled faster it must of just trying to have fun or just gave up as it ran back a different way but as i said it's ussually fine. You just have to cycle slowly in case you need to stop quickly, Like if there's a dog off leash and i don't know which way it's going to go towards. I'm aware of that and if i need to i just stop till the owner gets it's dog or till it moves out the way. So owners aren't irresponsible. Dogs can't help being dogs.
I've also cycled in a park nearby where there's a lot of off leash dogs. Which just randomly run into your path causing you to break quickly. But as i said dogs can't help being dogs their just having fun.


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## Randombiker9 (27 Mar 2018)

Nigeyy said:


> Oh dear, this is one of those subjects best avoided: pets, religion, politics and your kids. Of course I'd rather not kick a dog (never have) but if under threat and I had no option, yes I would. Of course "no option" sometimes isn't clear, but if a dog is snarling and looks like it's going to bite and the owner's making no attempt to restrain it, that would be good enough for me. For full disclosure, I'm not exactly a dog lover, but do like them. My family has had dogs before.
> 
> Interestingly about a year ago I was attacked by a dog, mtbing. I tried to put the bike between me and the dog and it ran around and got a good bite of my calf. It happened so quickly I couldn't defend myself, but had it tried it again, I would have definitely kicked the bloody thing I'll guarantee that. At least the owner gave me details and paid for my medical expenses. And I definitely did report it to the police, giving all the owner's details. Why? Because earlier in the ride I'd gone by a 10-12 year old girl. I'd want it documented every time a dog attacks so at least there's a record that can help decide if a dog has previous history should be put down. As I said, I like dogs, but as far as I'm concerned if a dog bites without good cause it should be goner. Next time it might not be an overweight balding middle aged cyclist.
> 
> And what did the owner say? "he just doesn't like cyclists". Fortunately he was apologetic after that comment because I wasn't impressed to say the least as he was walking a dog that doesn't like cyclists off leash in an area frequented by mtbers..... Anyway, sad to see some of the dog lover's responses here, seems like dogs (any dogs) are far more important than people who are unlucky enough to encounter uncontrolled aggressive dogs.



But then another day. There was this German shepard puppy off leash and i was just walking my bike up hill and he came up as he was interested in the bike as he was sniffing it. So i guess he was just exploring the area and has never seen a bike, He was friendly so i said Hi to him as i like dogs. 


Dogs are great but remember it's not the dog. it's how the owner trains it. One of my parent's friends has a jack russell which got attacked by a American Staffie. Luckily the JR survived but the JR is now scared of big dogs because of that. 
Also when my dad was on holiday he got bitten by a stray pitbull.

I've never had any bad expereinces. I like dogs but i do not like American staffie's or pitbulls. (luckily we don't have pitbulls here as there illegal)


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## Bianchi boy (27 Mar 2018)

1991dangerous dogs act, Chapter 65 section -3. That`s the Law, Simple


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## Randombiker9 (27 Mar 2018)

Bianchi boy said:


> 1991dangerous dogs act, Chapter 65 section -3. That`s the Law, Simple


yeah. But it's worse when neighbours dogs bark during the night
. Also that act is only applies for Banned Dogs so like pitbulls


it would probs be better to link this one:
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public
https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs


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## Nigeyy (28 Mar 2018)

I agree to an extent, and will say much lies with the owner, but I'd also say there are sometimes really well natured dogs, and then some dogs that just have a nasty streak*, or some dogs that are nice dogs but react badly to certain stimuli. So I'd say remember it is the dog sometimes. Or the owner sometimes. Regardless, when one bites you I can't say (at least for me) you start pondering whether it's the dog or the owner.

*interestingly I had a friend who asked the question (seriously) "can you have a psychopathic animal?".




Randombiker9 said:


> But then another day. There was this German shepard puppy off leash and i was just walking my bike up hill and he came up as he was interested in the bike as he was sniffing it. So i guess he was just exploring the area and has never seen a bike, He was friendly so i said Hi to him as i like dogs.
> 
> 
> Dogs are great but remember it's not the dog. it's how the owner trains it. One of my parent's friends has a jack russell which got attacked by a American Staffie. Luckily the JR survived but the JR is now scared of big dogs because of that.
> ...


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## Heltor Chasca (28 Mar 2018)

Here’s another angle on the dog rant thread:

If I do the school run, there and back, drop off and pick up, I cover about 6km on a shared path. It is our local greenway which is very popular with dog walkers because it is clean and safe and when I had a springer, it was a good way to keep her nails short. Lots of dogs out and about all year round. Generally we all get on fine and I haven’t noticed any issues for a while. Tolerance is the key.

Until it comes to servicing my bike that is. I kid you not, the entire drive train and mudguards are smeared, tangled and matted with dogs’ hair. No jokes. In the jockey wheels, chain links, cassette. Everywhere. Weird.

They should have to be cling wrapped before setting on foot down MY cycle route.


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## dantheman (14 May 2018)

I have clipped one dog with my pedals and hit another, coming to stop with the front wheel just pinning It down as it yelped.. Both at the same part of a cycle path alongside playing fields dog walkers use, both times the owners not paying attention and both times no leads... I will say both times the owners were apologetic, but it brings me no joy to hit their pets and it would be nice if dog owners had more spacial awareness as frankly tons of times I've needed to stop or swerve massively because of them.. And I don't go down these places at breakneck speed and do ease off when I see the hazards (both above times I had eased to below 10mph..

Bring back dog licensing..


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## Alan O (16 May 2018)

My latest dog-rant subject was a woman with one of those dogs on strings - the leads that extend for what seems like miles. She was crossing the road ahead of me, but was letting the lead extend and the dog follow from whatever distance it felt like - and she'd crossed the entire road with the dog still on the other pavement and the lead stretching all the way between them!

Words (probably fortunately) failed me.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jun 2019)

One of our top riders is off the bike and on antibiotics. I don’t know the full story, but he wasn’t bitten, he was wrapped up in one of those invisible leads and his leg got sliced up


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## Grievesy (30 Jun 2019)

I've had the misfortune to literally park my bike between a dogs ribs before. I was riding on a cycle path. I even chimed my wee bell (when I had it) to let the woman know I was coming as the lab was off the lead, she turned around, looked and just waved me off. this was fine until I was about to pass and the dog decided to do a 90 degree right turn right into me. absolutely no where to go except watch this dog fold in 2 around my wheel and get pushed about 3 feet up the path as I grab a load of brakes and try to stop.

"oh sorry" was all the owner said to me.
"not a problem missy, I'm fine. but you might have a hell of a vet bill. Bye"

honestly. some owners. as a dog owner myself. I'm happy my dog is well trained and I let him off the lead in select areas, but I still grab him if I see a cyclist as he loves to chase them for exercise as he comes with me sometimes on short jaunts (as you can see in my profile pic)


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## vickster (30 Jun 2019)

Grievesy said:


> I've had the misfortune to literally park my bike between a dogs ribs before. I was riding on a cycle path. I even chimed my wee bell (when I had it) to let the woman know I was coming as the lab was off the lead, she turned around, looked and just waved me off. *this was fine until I was about to pass and the dog decided to do a 90 degree right turn right into me. absolutely no where to go except watch this dog fold in 2 around my wheel and get pushed about 3 feet up the path as I grab a load of brakes and try to stop.*
> 
> "oh sorry" was all the owner said to me.
> "not a problem missy, I'm fine. but you might have a hell of a vet bill. Bye"
> ...


How fast were you going? That close around dogs (esp dopey ones like labradors can be), walking pace is the max one should be doing on a bike on a shared path...so no need to brake hard at all to stop


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## Grievesy (1 Jul 2019)

I wasn't going that fast. I'm generally not a fast cyclist (my average commute speed is 12mph) but I do remember that day I was taking my time and enjoying the cycle as the sun was scorchio and it was a zero wind day  I just didn't have my hands covering the brakes which is why it took me so long to stop.


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## Kajjal (1 Jul 2019)

When passing dogs I just slow to a crawl whether mountain biking or road biking as you suggest, sometimes you can just be unlucky. To date I have not hit anyone or their dog but did once have to jump a snake that appeared on the trail in front of me.


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## Arjimlad (1 Jul 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> One of our top riders is off the bike and on antibiotics. I don’t know the full story, but he wasn’t bitten, he was wrapped up in one of those invisible leads and his leg got sliced up


Eek !


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## Smudge (1 Jul 2019)

My dog will totally obey three commands..... Here, stay and sit. But i only use them if i know a cyclist is coming up behind me.
So fecking let me know you're there in advance, instead of waiting until the last few seconds.


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## Randombiker9 (3 Jul 2019)

Dogs are hazards so if you see a dog off lead slow down and then there’s no hazzle as you could go around it 
Dogs are dogs they have no road sense like most animals 
If you to hit a dog whilst cycling you would be viewed a Fault
Like if a car hits a dog


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## Randombiker9 (3 Jul 2019)

Kajjal said:


> When passing dogs I just slow to a crawl whether mountain biking or road biking as you suggest, sometimes you can just be unlucky. To date I have not hit anyone or their dog but did once have to jump a snake that appeared on the trail in front of me.


Lol I agree. I go through shared paths by local rivers sometimes as the ducks don’t move out the way lol you just have to slow down and then they do move out the way.

Remember guys animals have no road sense


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## Jody (3 Jul 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> If you to hit a dog whilst cycling you would be viewed a Fault. Like if a car hits a dog



You aren't at fault for hitting a dog whilst driving. Although it must be reported if you do so. If I collide with a dog whilst on a shared use path and the animal isn't on a lead, then it isn't under control and I have a potential of suing the pets owner. It's a slightly grey area but you're not automatically at fault. 

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/medi...-accidents-involving-animals-what-is-the-law/


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## Crackle (3 Jul 2019)

Jody said:


> You aren't at fault for hitting a dog whilst driving. Although it must be reported if you do so. If I collide with a dog whilst on a shared use path and the animal isn't on a lead, then it isn't under control and I have a potential of suing the pets owner. It's a slightly grey area but you're not automatically at fault.
> 
> https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/medi...-accidents-involving-animals-what-is-the-law/


Well if you read that link it's by no means cut and dry. You mention under control but there is no such definition, close control, dangerously out of control, yes, everything else is going to be a bit grey and it's incumbent on all of us, cyclists, dog owners, dog owners who are also cyclists, to act sensibly.


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## Heltor Chasca (3 Jul 2019)

School run this morning and my daughter was chased by a malamute/husky type dog. Completely ignored owner’s recall. I put my bike between the dog and my daughter. Resorted to picking the bike up and slamming it against the dog. It wasn’t interested in me. Just fixated on my daughter. 

The owner apologised and I made it clear it was unacceptable. What more can we do? 

Owners who have dogs like this should have them on a lead.


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## Smudge (3 Jul 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> School run this morning and my daughter was chased by a malamute/husky type dog. Completely ignored owner’s recall. I put my bike between the dog and my daughter. Resorted to picking the bike up and slamming it against the dog. It wasn’t interested in me. Just fixated on my daughter.
> 
> The owner apologised and I made it clear it was unacceptable. What more can we do?
> 
> Owners who have dogs like this should have them on a lead.



I would have reported the owner to the police.


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## Heltor Chasca (3 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> I would have reported the owner to the police.



Marginal in this case. It was boisterous and rough. Not aggressive.

Had police on the case for an incident in the winter which was very dangerous and my daughter was hurt. A lot of hard upsetting work and as far as I know nothing came of it.

The police aren’t a force anymore with all the cuts.


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## Mo1959 (3 Jul 2019)

Even your own dogs can cause problems. I saw a guy come a cropper 2 days ago when I was doing my usual trail walk by the river. He and his wife/partner were on mtb's and their labrador running alongside when it suddenly crossed in front of him. Not sure if he hit it or just braked so violently, but he did a nice somersault over the bars and looked a bit sore.


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## Jody (3 Jul 2019)

Crackle said:


> Well if you read that link it's by no means cut and dry. You mention under control but there is no such definition, close control, dangerously out of control, yes, everything else is going to be a bit grey and it's incumbent on all of us, cyclists, dog owners, dog owners who are also cyclists, to act sensibly.



My point was more that the cyclist or car driver isn't "at fault" by default. I've never hit an animal or want to but it should be on a lead if you are on a shared path. If it's on a short lead then you are almost certainly at fault. If it isn't then the grey area arises.


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## Crackle (3 Jul 2019)

Jody said:


> My point was more that the cyclist or car driver isn't "at fault" by default. I've never hit an animal or want to but it should be on a lead if you are on a shared path. If it's on a short lead then you are almost certainly at fault. If it isn't then the grey area arises.


Personally I think it depends on the path. You probably have something in mind which is different to what I have in mind , which is often how these threads end up going around in circles. The path I use has a code of conduct, the advice for dog users is to be able to control your dog and if not put it on a lead. The advice for cyclists is to use a bell and not use the path at speed and to give way to other users. Of course there's an interpretation to that code, what is under control, what is at speed but for the most part, it's sensibly adhered to because it's common sense anyway, no one really wants any conflict.


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## Jody (3 Jul 2019)

Crackle said:


> Personally I think it depends on the path. You probably have something in mind which is different to what I have in mind , which is often how these threads end up going around in circles.



I see your point. I'm on about local bridleways, the Trans Penine Trail and some of the shared footpath/cycleways etc.


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## Grievesy (3 Jul 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Marginal in this case. It was boisterous and rough. Not aggressive.
> 
> Had police on the case for an incident in the winter which was very dangerous and my daughter was hurt. A lot of hard upsetting work and as far as I know nothing came of it.
> 
> The police aren’t a force anymore with all the cuts.



Doesn't need to be aggressive. it has clearly caused fear and alarm. Might not be top priority for the Police however it should still be investigated. Especially since it can be corroborated (the big thing these days other than he said, she said)

a call to the dog warden however... would go further.


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

It has to cause fear of injury, not just fear and alarm.


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## Heltor Chasca (3 Jul 2019)

The officers dealing with our case in the winter told me it would’ve been sufficient if my daughter had ‘just’ been terrorised. They were accessory Staffies. Studs, chains etc And an owner who had absolutely no social confidence when I took him to task. Thick as a plank.

The fact that nothing ever came of the report points to the fact our Avon & Somerset police force is seriously underfunded and under resourced. 

They even tried to weasel out of dealing with it because I didn’t have a number plate! I never knew dog owners walking their animals in a field, far from any road would have a number plate hung around their neck. Twits.

But what really gets my back up is that we have always owned dogs. My daughter is now terrified of them. I thought we were making progress until this morning. It is evident she is still very scared of some dogs.


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## skudupnorth (15 Jul 2019)

Must have a better class of dog owner on the NCN55, not had any issues and am on first name terms with some owners and extra petting rights with their dogs


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