# La Vuelta a Espana 22/8 - 13/9 2015 (here be spoilers)



## HF2300 (3 Aug 2015)

http://www.lavuelta.com/15pr/en/index.html

In a worse kept secret than Porte's BMC move, Astana have said they are taking their strongest team ever, with Nibali, Landa and Aru. Aru apparently says Nibali's presence won't be a problem. Should be entertaining.

TVG confirmed for BMC as well.


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## tug benson (3 Aug 2015)

Wee nairo also confirmed


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## rich p (3 Aug 2015)

Quintana too and Froomedawg is thinking about it.
It could be fun. Will Landa be off the leash despite or because of his impending defection?


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## Heifer73 (3 Aug 2015)

I will be watching, I am not sure that Nibali is that good a rider.

I do wonder where TVG is going, with RP moving to BMC to be a GC rider.


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## Crackle (3 Aug 2015)

It's looking as interesting as the Tour. Depends of course on objectives but I'm looking forward to it.


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## roadrash (3 Aug 2015)

looks like its shaping up to be a good un


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## HF2300 (4 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> It could be fun. Will Landa be off the leash despite or because of his impending defection?



Can they keep him on the leash given his impending defection?!!


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## smutchin (4 Aug 2015)

Heifer73 said:


> I am not sure that Nibali is that good a rider.



Let me help you: you can be sure that Nibali _is_ that good a rider.


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## Buddfox (4 Aug 2015)

Looks like it might be a good line-up this year. It's a shame we won't be able to watch it because the TV feed and coverage is always so pants... ho hum


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## huwsparky (5 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Can they keep him on the leash given his impending defection?!!


Moving to sky...?


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## Bobby Mhor (9 Aug 2015)

huwsparky said:


> Moving to sky...?


After his showing in the Giro, I thought he could be picked up by another team but maybe he 'Believes in Better' moolah.....


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## rich p (9 Aug 2015)

Quintana 2/1
Froome 5/2
Valverde 7/2
Aru 5/1
Nibali 7/1
J Rod 13/1
Landa 13/1
Majka 17/1
Teejay 20/1

The Astana love triangle could be entertaining. Apart from Aru and Landa, the top boys should still be feeling the TdF in their legs.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Aug 2015)

The Vuelta usually suits pure climbers better than the Tour. I hope Quintana gets it.


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## Bianchi boy (9 Aug 2015)

User said:


> I always enjoy La Vuelta, this year they ride through a part of the Costa Blanca I know very well....


Are they doing the Calpe to Moraira road, lost count of the times we have cycled that, along with the "Col de Rates" Happy days


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## Booyaa (9 Aug 2015)

Heifer73 said:


> I will be watching,* I am not sure that Nibali is that good a rider.*
> 
> I do wonder where TVG is going, with RP moving to BMC to be a GC rider.


I don't think average riders win a TdF, even with a bit of luck.


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## ColinJ (9 Aug 2015)

User said:


> yes I think so, its stage 9 August 30 Torrevieja-Cumbre del Sol. Benitachell going through Moraira...first time on cumbre del sol...
> Col de Rates was my local climb, I lived in Alcalali and Jalon/xalo, lovely part of the Costa Blanca...


I used to go on holiday there with my bike every March. I had to look up where the Cumbre del Sol is though because I didn't remember it. It turns out to be the big hill near to the sea which I used to ride past between Moraira and Javea.


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## Bollo (10 Aug 2015)

Looks like Froome fancies it....

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/10/chris-froome-vuelta-a-espana-team-sky-provisional-list


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Aug 2015)

Bollo said:


> Looks like Froome fancies it....
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/10/chris-froome-vuelta-a-espana-team-sky-provisional-list



I would prefer it if Sky go with Henao for this one. They are both down, so maybe there will be a Plan A and B depending on whether Froome has carried sufficient form from the Tour or is exhausted.


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## Keith Oates (11 Aug 2015)

I can't see Froome winning this one but I've been wrong before (many times) however I'm not holding my breath.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hont (11 Aug 2015)

Can't see it myself. Someone usually comes _very well prepared_ for the Vuelta and puts in a _surprising performance._


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## Crackle (11 Aug 2015)

Hont said:


> Can't see it myself. Someone usually comes _very well prepared_ for the Vuelta and puts in a _surprising performance._


Co(cough)bo(cough)…


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## HF2300 (11 Aug 2015)

Hont said:


> Can't see it myself. Someone usually comes _very well prepared_ for the Vuelta and puts in a _surprising performance._



Not sure Horner's doing it this year, is he?


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## Crackle (11 Aug 2015)

Landa for the win then.


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## perplexed (12 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Not sure Horner's doing it this year, is he?



I misread that as Homer - That'd be quite an Odyssey if he won...


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## HF2300 (12 Aug 2015)

perplexed said:


> I misread that as Homer - That'd be quite an Odyssey if he won...



Homer Simpson.


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## The Couch (12 Aug 2015)

perplexed said:


> I misread that as Homer - That'd be quite an Odyssey if he won...


Even speaking about Horner, It would be at minimal a Homer that he would pull of


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## oldgreyandslow (12 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I used to go on holiday there with my bike every March. I had to look up where the Cumbre del Sol is though because I didn't remember it. It turns out to be the big hill near to the sea which I used to ride past between Moraira and Javea.



I'm going on holiday to Calpe on Sept 5th, clearly should have studied the route beforehand and went a week earlier, I have managed to convince my wife I need to hire bike for a few days so have an orbea from Solybikes for 4 days, I'll have to look up Cumber de Sol now


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## ColinJ (12 Aug 2015)

oldgreyandslow said:


> I'm going on holiday to Calpe on Sept 5th, clearly should have studied the route beforehand and went a week earlier, I have managed to convince my wife I need to hire bike for a few days so have an orbea from Solybikes for 4 days, I'll have to look up Cumber de Sol now


Get @User to suggest some of his favourite routes out there. I can remember mine if I had to ride them, but I would struggle to describe all the turns from memory. Certainly try to do the Finestrat/Tudons/Confrides/Guadalest loop and the Jalon/Col de Rates/Sella one.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2015)

The Vuelta is on the up:
http://inrng.com/2015/08/vuelta-a-espana-rise-startlist/

Top marks for "more stardust than the Perseid shower"


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## Stonechat (17 Aug 2015)

Like the way this is shaping up. I would really go for Froome if he hadn't just done the tdf.
Still think it should suit him but think it could be wide open and hence more exciting


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## HF2300 (18 Aug 2015)

Sagan and Majka confirmed for the Vuelta, rumours about Bertie still bubbling...


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## The Couch (18 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Sagan and Majka confirmed for the Vuelta, rumours about Bertie still bubbling...


I read Bertie is definitely not riding.

I am wondering if P-R Latour will get a chance to get some GT experience, he has been showing some real potential this year


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## Venod (18 Aug 2015)

Team Sky for the Vuelta

*Team Sky for Vuelta a España: *Chris Froome, Geraint Thomas, Nicolas Roche, Sergio Henao, Mikel Nieve, Vasil Kiryienka, Christian Knees, Ian Boswell, Salvatore Puccio.


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## Crackle (18 Aug 2015)

I'd like to see how Henao does after a prolonged abscence. Really cannot imagine that Contador is even thinking of this and I imagine Froome will be competitive but going on previous Vueltas and end of Tour form, can't see him winning.


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## rich p (18 Aug 2015)

I think Quintana will be encouraged by his tdf third week to be slightly bolder, earlier. I have him for the win with Froome second but I wouldn't put it past the dawg - he has the mental strength.
It'll be interesting to see how G is considering his tour efforts. I'm not sure about Roche again and Team Froome is weaker without Richie Porte. Nieve and Henao aren't as strong imo.


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## smutchin (18 Aug 2015)

I think Thomas is going to struggle. He must be knackered after the season he's had, and he hasn't raced since the Tour. 

First ten days look mostly straightforward, but then it gets interesting. This is the profile of stage 11...







Stages 14-16 are killers, finishing on some pretty brutal climbs, but then there's the stage 20 decider...


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## roadrash (18 Aug 2015)

AS @rich p says, if quintana has learned anything from his tour de france i think he will win this, and i would like to see him do it .


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## nickyboy (19 Aug 2015)

I was in Puerto Banus today and tootling around the harbour I was somewhat surprised to see a couple of Pinarello Dogmas trundle past. About half an hour later I saw them again; Knees and Henao, just stopped and having a bit of a natter.

Had a quick chat with them, they'd been doing a recce of the prologue to Marbella and pronounced it "a bit technical". Didn't want to look like a knob in front of the family so, sorry, no photos


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## HF2300 (19 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> Stages 14-16 are killers, finishing on some pretty brutal climbs, but then there's the stage 20 decider...



If it really does turn out to be a decider the double summit* and descent to the finish might prove interesting, particularly if some of the more attacking riders are in contention...

* I couldn't get copyright permission from Sherwen so I can't call it a false flat


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## The Couch (20 Aug 2015)

In an interview today, Jelle Vanendert is saying his close to his top form ...and at the end of the season he needs a new contract
A cornered animal can be very dangerous (or might "use/take extreme measures" )

(some free advice for the - very desperate - fantasy players here )

On a more serious note:
I am wondering what Pozzovivo will be able to show... he had seemed to be in peak form at the Giro, but couldn't show it because of his crash
Not sure what his current form will be (as is the case for most riders)... or even what he will do in a stronger field (than his previous results in the Giro and Vuelta)


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## HF2300 (20 Aug 2015)

ITV's Vuelta plans. No mention of Statler and Waldorf:

http://www.itv.com/presscentre/ep1week35/la-vuelta-espana-2015


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## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> ITV's Vuelta plans. No mention of Statler and Waldorf:
> 
> http://www.itv.com/presscentre/ep1week35/la-vuelta-espana-2015


Hmmm, yes, it does say that the commentators are Boulting and Millar. We live in hope.


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## smutchin (20 Aug 2015)

The Couch said:


> I am wondering what Pozzovivo will be able to show... he had seemed to be in peak form at the Giro, but couldn't show it because of his crash
> Not sure what his current form will be (as is the case for most riders)... or even what he will do in a stronger field (than his previous results in the Giro and Vuelta)



Good call. Pozzovivo could be a very strong contender.

I have a hunch about Nibali for this one - if he's over his mental problems from the Tour, he should be pretty fresh. In fact, it may well end up being another Astana show like the Giro. Not entirely sure that would be a good thing.


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## w00hoo_kent (20 Aug 2015)

Astana are being tipped as the top team at this one.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2015)

I'm thinking Astana will be banded by the UCI from competing by the time the Vuelta reaches its conclusion.


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2015)

Last chance for Purito, apparently he was consulted on some of the stage designs, or another left field rider.


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## User169 (20 Aug 2015)

The opening TTT stage has a section along a sand covered bikke path. What could possibly go wrong?!


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## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

Delftse Post said:


> The opening TTT stage has a section along a sand covered bikke path. What could possibly go wrong?!


Tilting at (sand) castles?
Possibly even more than tilting...


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## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

I've just seen the pictures on Twitter of the sandy path - fecking crazy. I've cycled slowly on sand and it's not pleasant - I can only imagine what it would be like at full throttle in a line of 5 to 9 riders.
Nutz.


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## rich p (20 Aug 2015)

A tweet from Robbie Hatch...

*Robert Hatch* ‏@*robhatchtv* 10m10 minutes ago

Reading @*JAEzquerro* & @*Vanlooyalfas*, sounds like @*lavuelta* WON’T change TTT route. Suggestion times may not count & real #*vuelta* starts St.2

Bit of a nonsense if it's true.


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## User169 (20 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I've just seen the pictures on Twitter of the sandy path - fecking crazy. I've cycled slowly on sand and it's not pleasant - I can only imagine what it would be like at full throttle in a line of 5 to 9 riders.
> Nutz.



If it's really as deep as those photos, there's going to be chaos (at best).


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## User169 (20 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> A tweet from Robbie Hatch...
> 
> *Robert Hatch* ‏@*robhatchtv* 10m10 minutes ago
> 
> ...



They should walk it then.


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## ColinJ (20 Aug 2015)

Who could possibly have thought that was a good idea! 

Bollards in the road during sprints, time trials on sandy paths ... How about something a bit different, an intermediate sprint down the middle of a rifle range? The threat of getting shot should encourage the riders to take the sprint more seriously!


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## raindog (21 Aug 2015)

Apparently, times will be neutralised
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vue...imes-to-be-neutralised-after-safety-concerns/
what a farce


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> Who could possibly have thought that was a good idea! !



I suspect probably the Marbella tourist board, and money talked.


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2015)

raindog said:


> Apparently, times will be neutralised
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vue...imes-to-be-neutralised-after-safety-concerns/
> what a farce



Only for GC; times will still count for the team prize, according to the article. Makes even less sense.


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## roadrash (21 Aug 2015)

perhaps they could do the team time trial riding these...


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## mjr (21 Aug 2015)

Buddfox said:


> Looks like it might be a good line-up this year. It's a shame we won't be able to watch it because the TV feed and coverage is always so pants... ho hum


Why not? It's live on Eurosport and highlights are on itv4. Go buy http://www.diy.com/clearance/ross-sd-interior-portable-satellite-kit/178305_BQ.prd for £20, point the dish at Astra at 19°E (guides online to help) and enjoy German Eurosport.



rich p said:


> Hmmm, yes, it does say that the commentators are Boulting and Millar. We live in hope.


That's a reason to watch the highlights, though.



HF2300 said:


> I suspect probably the Marbella tourist board, and money talked.


No board member cycles, then? Shame.

Anyway, you don't have to go to Marbella to have a cycle route on sand. Here's NCR1 across Holkham Meals (from Keep Pushing Those Pedals):





And https://goo.gl/maps/aNwRd is the entertaining point where NCR33 vanishes off up a sand track onto the beach at Brean, Somerset, eventually regaining land at the Pier Street gate in Burnham-on-Sea.


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## rich p (21 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> That's a reason to watch the highlights, though.



Ah, I missed that it was just highlights.
I'm a Eurosport man anyway but I'd have been tempted by live Boulting and Millar.


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## Hont (21 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I'm a Eurosport man anyway but I'd have been tempted by live Boulting and Millar.


Plus the ITV Player is free if you're not at home.


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## nickyboy (21 Aug 2015)

Clearly that's what Knees meant when he told me the route was "quite technical".

Anyway.......another day, another pro cyclist. Except this one's a bit tricky. I was in some poncey beach club today en famile and there was a group of guys there including an incredibly low body fat guy. White body, brown arms and legs, classic pro cyclist. He looked.............ill. And he spoke German. It wasn't Degenkolb, I would have recognised him from those charming Alpecin shampoo adverts. I wonder who it was?


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## rich p (21 Aug 2015)

nickyboy said:


> low body fat guy


low body, fat guy
I like the Neanderthal (Betancur?) image that this conjures up Nicky!
Much more interesting than low body-fat guy


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## smutchin (21 Aug 2015)

Did he look anything like this?







Not a great ambassador for Alpecin shampoo.


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## Buddfox (21 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Why not? It's live on Eurosport and highlights are on itv4. Go buy http://www.diy.com/clearance/ross-sd-interior-portable-satellite-kit/178305_BQ.prd for £20, point the dish at Astra at 19°E (guides online to help) and enjoy German Eurosport.



Because the TV feed is always pants for the Vuelta. Whether it's Eurosport, ITV or wherever, the picture quality will be poor, there will be guaranteed technical issues, and if previous years are anything to go on, they will also miss the critical breaks etc. Whoever provides the pictures just isn't up to it (it's probably down to a lack of money)

It's sadly the way I find the Vuelta, the whole thing is a bit of a shambles by comparison to the Tour. The farce over the opening team time trial is a case in point - it's just hard to take the thing that seriously, even though it has pretensions at being a 'grand tour'. Though to give them credit, they've attracted a higher calibre of entrant this year than they usually do.


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## themosquitoking (21 Aug 2015)

Buddfox said:


> Because the TV feed is always pants for the Vuelta. Whether it's Eurosport, ITV or wherever, the picture quality will be poor, there will be guaranteed technical issues, and if previous years are anything to go on, they will also miss the critical breaks etc. Whoever provides the pictures just isn't up to it (it's probably down to a lack of money)
> 
> It's sadly the way I find the Vuelta, the whole thing is a bit of a shambles by comparison to the Tour. The farce over the opening team time trial is a case in point - it's just hard to take the thing that seriously, even though it has pretensions at being a 'grand tour'. Though to give them credit, they've attracted a higher calibre of entrant this year than they usually do.


That might continue for a bit too. After Berties showing this year I can see less and less serious TdF contenders wanting to do the giro in future.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2015)

A reminder of the Pro Pundit thread for anyone who fancies a bit of a jolly during the Vuelta; here's the format on page 84
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/protour-pundit-2015-no-spoilers-please.175627/page-84

Nobody gives a toss. Join in.


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## User169 (22 Aug 2015)

DS says Quintana and Valves are joint leaders. Hhmm. Possibly Q's biggest problem will be his own team.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Aug 2015)

More problems for Katusha, this time due to "drunkenness"
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...t-list-amid-allegations-of-drunkenness-187869

Surely I'm not the only one reading that thinking "drunkenness my arse, he's juiced and they know it..."


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Aug 2015)

Some of these blokes had a lot more to contend with than a wee bit of sand

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_xoTRJOx18


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## rich p (22 Aug 2015)

What a poxy start to the Vuelta.


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## roadrash (22 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> What a poxy start to the Vuelta.



couldnt agree more...


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## mjr (22 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> What a poxy start to the Vuelta.


To clarify, most of the teams are taking it easy along the mole, across the sands and over the boards. The stage win seems to interest only a few teams, despite the €12,000 prize (I think: they've mentioned it often but this is even less entertaining than the usual time trials so I'm catching up with online messages that have nothing todo with the racing)


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## mjr (22 Aug 2015)

And great timing on an ad break means we miss the lead changing, I think. They really do want to be like the Tour, don't they?


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## mjr (22 Aug 2015)

Given up. It'll be impressive to find an hour's highlights from that, so I'll watch at ten just to see them try! (Well, 45mins or whatever it is)


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> What a poxy start to the Vuelta.



Ha! I just described it as "the dullest most poxy start to a Grand Tour" over of PTP thread


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## sleaver (22 Aug 2015)

At least Segan can joke about coming second - "Maybe because of my name we came second"


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## Rustybucket (22 Aug 2015)

Liked G's interview - basically saying what was the point in that TTT!


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## rich p (22 Aug 2015)

Rustybucket said:


> Liked G's interview - basically saying what was the point in that TTT!


I think it was so I could get 2 out 3 in the pro pundit prediction thread!
No other point, that's for sure


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## Berk on a Bike (22 Aug 2015)

While I get why they did it, it's weird to watch Team Sky phone it in...


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## themosquitoking (22 Aug 2015)

I watched it on Spanish tele. Couldn't understand too much commentary but they do a cool thing during advert breaks where they mute the sound of the bike racing and show it on half the screen whilst the adverts plus sound are shown on the other half.


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## mjr (22 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I watched it on Spanish tele. Couldn't understand too much commentary but they do a cool thing during advert breaks where they mute the sound of the bike racing and show it on half the screen whilst the adverts plus sound are shown on the other half.


Albanian TV used to do that with the football, before the Premiership got all twisted about us all watching for free


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## themosquitoking (22 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Albanian TV used to do that with the football, before the Premiership got all twisted about us all watching for free


The Premiership (I'm still yet to be convinced that this is a word) are dicks about that aren't they?


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Aug 2015)

That as basically a team parade. Waste of time. Why did they program a route that was always going to be impossible to race on? Let's hope they've thought about the rest of it a bit more, otherwise we might get some situations like this:

Team Manager: "So what happens here Stage 6, after the road ends here on the map, where it's marked 'Chasm of Certain Doom'?"

Race Director: "Ah, well, the riders jump across the gap, avoiding the flames rising up from the very bowels of Hell, and land on the road on the other side."

TM: "I see."

RD: "Yes, it's only 10 metres. Is that going to be a problem?" 

(Thinks: "Jeez, if they think that's bad, wait until they see 'Escape from Cthulhu's Lair' on Stage 17")


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## Nomadski (23 Aug 2015)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That as basically a team parade. Waste of time. Why did they program a route that was always going to be impossible to race on? Let's hope they've thought about the rest of it a bit more, otherwise we might get some situations like this:
> 
> Team Manager: "So what happens here Stage 6, after the road ends here on the map, where it's marked 'Chasm of Certain Doom'?"
> 
> ...


I'd watch that


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## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

I'd guess that there'll be some discussion about how this route got approval and by whom. Are the UCI ultimately to blame for allowing it?


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## Aperitif (23 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I'd guess that there'll be some discussion about how this route got approval and by whom. Are the UCI ultimately to blame for allowing it?


A technical director will be carrying the can - or at least Escartin it...
As the riders were 'out for a spin', one assumes The King of Spain had a hand in proceedings?


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

what a horrible horrible crash , most of the peleton involved , gonna be hard for nibali to get back on to the bunch


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

They didn't give a certain announcement on the rider to remain on the deck and get stretchered off in a neck brace to the ambulance but they did announce the abandon of David Tanner. Horrible to see.


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

well done nibbles , i didnt expect him to get back on to the bunch


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## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

A few surprises there. Quintana trying and largely failing to get away. Dumoulin following Chaves in, on a hard, sharp climb.
Dan Martin doing his usual, too late attack to come in 4th.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

roadrash said:


> well done nibbles , i didnt expect him to get back on to the bunch


And here's how he did it, cheating:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClwG4DD7sbY


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> They didn't give a certain announcement on the rider to remain on the deck and get stretchered off in a neck brace to the ambulance but they did announce the abandon of David Tanner. Horrible to see.


Tanner has a broken pelvis.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> And here's how he did it, cheating:
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClwG4DD7sbY



That was rather blatant, wasn't it? How will the commissaires respond, I wonder.

@Marmion Thanks for the update on David Tanner. Painful.


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> And here's how he did it, cheating:
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClwG4DD7sbY



cheating fecker, i hadnt seen that on eurosport


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## Slaav (23 Aug 2015)

roadrash said:


> cheating fecker, i hadnt seen that on eurosport



That must be some of the most blatant CHEATING we have seen in recent times? There is a sticky bottle, drafting behind team cars but actually getting a clear 'tow' away from the group is rather taking the micky isn't it????

Small fine is my prediction! Maybe with a small time penalty that wont make much difference. It is too early to ruin the race for one of the big names and they wont want to do so - wrongly in my view.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

roadrash said:


> cheating fecker, i hadnt seen that on eurosport


I don't know who was in the bunch when he hitched a lift but I think Zeitz did some of the riding Nibali back into the race. He came in 13 minutes off the lead. Rosa and Cataldo came in at +15 minutes. That would be an appropriate penalty plus a hefty fine (individual and team)/DS disqualification. Astana really don't give a toss.....


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## SWSteve (23 Aug 2015)

In the pre-show interviews, does anyone else think Dan Martin looks excessively pale for a pro-cyclist?


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

dissqualification would be an appropriate penalty in my book , that just takes the piss, im not saying he will/or could, but what if he went on to win the vuelta after that.
@deptfordmarmoset , i dont think astana give a toss about any rules to be honest , past record speaks for itself.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

The decision re Nibali/Astana due to be made public soon according to some Spanish journalist on twitter


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

Nibali disqualified. He's out.

edit - the driver of team car also disqualified and limitations placed on team car for next couple of stages (the translation is a bit ropey so not sure exact details)
another edit - and a fine of 200 swiss francs


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## Berk on a Bike (23 Aug 2015)

Nibali DQ'd


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

so he should be...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Nibali disqualified. He's out.
> 
> edit - the driver of team car also disqualified and limitations placed on team car for next couple of stages (the translation is a bit ropey so not sure exact details)
> another edit - and a fine of 200 swiss francs


Cyclingnews covering it as....
Vincenzo Nibali (Astana) has been kicked out of the Vuelta a España after holding onto the team car while chasing back from a crash with 30km to go on stage 2. He was also fined 200 Swiss Francs.

The Italian champion was at the head of a chase group when the Astana team car, piloted by Alexander Shefer, pulled alongside and towed Nibali up the road.

Shefer was also kicked out of the race, and Astana will have only one car following its riders for the next two stages.


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## Cathryn (23 Aug 2015)

The most blatant example of cheating I've ever seen! What an arse! I've just had to explain to a 5 year old why his main rider is out of his fantasy team! 

I HATE cheating! In every form!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

From Velonews:
“They can do what they want to do, I don’t have a thing to say to the jury,” Astana team manager, Giuseppe Martinelli told _VeloNews_.

“If they send him home, it will be the race’s loss.”

Martinelli sat shotgun while sports director Alexandre Shefer drove Astana’s team car. Nibali took hold with 16 kilometers to race in the 158.7km stage. He re-joined the group with 10km remaining, but later lost contact.

“I saw the video, I know what we did!” added Martinelli.

“It happens in the Tour, I’ve seen it 1000 times. Try to find me an honest person in the peloton. Any sports director would have done the same thing to save their leader.”


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...ch-following-crash_382368#7Ubo31x7Q8HqbW30.99


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2015)

Try to find me an honest person in the peloton....

try to find me an honest person at astana.....


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## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

Karma for sprinting away when Froome dropped his chain, @Marmion


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Nibali DQ'd


How are you enjoying the Absolute 80s show?


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## Berk on a Bike (23 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> How are you enjoying the Absolute 80s show?


Do you follow me? Hate to think I'm being impolite...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Do you follow me? Hate to think I'm being impolite...


No, just spotted you tonight - we both favourite the photo of Aru fairly early on and I spotted you from your pic and name


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> In the pre-show interviews, does anyone else think Dan Martin looks excessively pale for a pro-cyclist?


Irishman looks a bit pale shocker


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## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

GT is already 5 minutes down so he's probably not in the shape as the TdF.
Quintana tried to do a Froome and gain time early but maybe the one's who did the Tour still have it in their legs. We'll see.


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## iLB (23 Aug 2015)

Ah they've all done it...

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/giro-ditalia/froome-disqualified-from-giro-ditalia-60517


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## mjr (23 Aug 2015)

One heck of a twist in this race already then. Too late for today's ITV highlights but I expect it'll be in tomorrow's.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Aug 2015)

Tanner's horrific injury and Nibali's ludicrous cheating aside, that was a really good stage: Chavez was awesome, and for those following the rise of African cycling, it was great to see Songezo Jim in 14th - he's a young man with an inspiring backstory and he's improving all the time: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/sport/songezo-jim-cycling-africa-tour/index.html


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Aug 2015)

I'm guessing Astana's twitter is a whole load of fun tonight - not that I can see it since they blocked me for calling them dopers


----------



## 400bhp (23 Aug 2015)

Let's play inconspicuous rider bingo - a rider that goes the whole tour without a mention on tv. Frank Schleck. Feckin Frank Schleck


----------



## Berk on a Bike (23 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> Let's play inconspicuous rider bingo - a rider that goes the whole tour without a mention on tv. Frank Schleck. Feckin Frank Schleck


Schleck got a namecheck on Eurosport. Something along the lines of:
"Do you think Frank Schleck will do anything today?"
"No."
"No, me neither."

Surprised to see Spartacus roll in second last, but less so as I'm reading he's had the fever and is now suffering stomach problems. Like delicate orchids these pro riders.


----------



## RussellZero (23 Aug 2015)

What's happening with Cancellara, not expecting to be back up to doing anything in the vuelta?


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## sleaver (23 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> GT is already 5 minutes down so he's probably not in the shape as the TdF.


Could he be doing what Porte did in the Tour de France. Take it easy but then be there to help when it matters?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

RussellZero said:


> What's happening with Cancellara, not expecting to be back up to doing anything in the vuelta?


Commentator I heard said he wasn't back to form after the vertebrae break at the TdF


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## RussellZero (23 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Commentator I heard said he wasn't back to form after the vertebrae break at the TdF


Ah, thanks, thought hed be a bit more competitive was all


----------



## rich p (23 Aug 2015)

sleaver said:


> Could he be doing what Porte did in the Tour de France. Take it easy but then be there to help when it matters?


Possibly so. Saving his energy for the bigger mtns but he did talk himself down prior to the race.


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## SWSteve (23 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Irishman looks a bit pale shocker



He lives on the Med (surely, they all live on the med) and rides his bike around in the sun for a living, how is he so pale? Even a heavy sun block wouldn't help him maintain that lovely pale blue complexion


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (23 Aug 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> He lives on the Med (surely, they all live on the med) and rides his bike around in the sun for a living, how is he so pale? Even a heavy sun block wouldn't help him maintain that lovely pale blue complexion


I saw the interview and he looked more gaunt than pale. So I paid attention when he appeared in a post race interview on ITV4. I can report that he looked quite red on my TV!


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## mjr (23 Aug 2015)

Team official statement. Says Aru caught in the crash too. http://astanaproteam.kz/en/page/new...torre-caminito-del-rey-159km/?date=2015-08-23


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2015)

It's all set up for the Landaborg.


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## Nomadski (24 Aug 2015)

_


mjray said:



Team official statement. Says Aru caught in the crash too. http://astanaproteam.kz/en/page/new...torre-caminito-del-rey-159km/?date=2015-08-23

Click to expand...


"For this illegal assistance, race jury officials took the unusual and severe step to expel Nibali and Sheffer from the Vuelta a España and to remove the team's second vehicle from competition for two days -

Astana Pro Team is sorry for the error, and apologizes to the peloton and race organizers for the harm these televised images caused to professional cycling"
_
Unusual....severe....it was the televised images that we are apologising for......not the action...

Shameless Astana.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> A few surprises there. Quintana trying and largely failing to get away. Dumoulin following Chaves in, on a hard, sharp climb.
> Dan Martin doing his usual, too late attack to come in 4th.



Dumoulin a surprise, but (from the coverage I saw) it was difficult to know how hard Quintana was trying. Was he really trying to get away, or was it just testers, or positioning himself up the road for Valverde?

Particularly dull by Nibali and the team car / DS, but I can't help thinking the rest of the group seemed to back off suddenly just to exaggerate the gap...


----------



## sleaver (24 Aug 2015)

How did Aru get back to the main group or was he not delayed as much as Nibali?

I think Eurosport showed a clip of Aru with ripped shorts so I'm guessing he came off as well.


----------



## roadrash (24 Aug 2015)

aru was probably hiding in the boot of the team car


----------



## oldroadman (24 Aug 2015)

If the commenters on here had bothered to check the UCI site, the rule is clear. Hold on to a car and gain any kind of advantage, out you go. As does the driver or manager in charge of the car, and in a two team car race, one of the cars is off as well for at least a day or two. Other interesting punishments include relegation to last car in the convoy for at least a day, and for severe infractions, the whole race, or even off the race altogether. I've seen it happen before. As for the 200 Swiss fine, that's the limit of fines before they can be appealed. Teams will take chances, there was no commissaire with the group, lucky the helicopter was there to see what happened. I met Mr Valcic (President of the jury of commissaires at the Vuelta a few years back, really pleasant and very fair person. Correct decision, you get punished if you take chances and get caught, and I believe Mr valcic is from Croatia, nest door to Italy, so he'll know a thing or two about Italian riders and Italian team managers!


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## oldroadman (24 Aug 2015)

And it raining AGAIN...likely won't get out until later, when it's supposed to stop. Where is the hot August the forecasters were going on about in July?


----------



## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Particularly dull by Nibali and the team car / DS, but I can't help thinking the rest of the group seemed to back off suddenly just to exaggerate the gap...


I've just watched the video. Maybe they did (wouldn't you, if you're not a GC rider and no longer have one on the front to slipstream?), but WTH was the driver thinking putting the foot down that much??? 

I've seen a couple of reports that Aru was down but not about how he got back. Nibali was delayed by a dodgy bike swap (they almost dropped the bike as he tried to mount it) and I suspect Astana's car was pretty far back in the convoy behind the peloton after finishing 13th in the TTT (a hidden risk of taking it easy?), but I think even that was less than 2 minutes delay, so if Aru could continue on his same bike or a teammate's, he probably got back easier. Actually, if Aru took a teammate's bike, could that explain how Nibali seemed to have one teammate join him fairly quickly and - if he felt he should have had that bike instead of Aru - why he had quite such a tantrum after the crash?


----------



## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> Karma for sprinting away when Froome dropped his chain, @Marmion



Yes, Karma indeed. It was only a few weeks ago that Nibali was recalling how Froome took a help from a team car in 2010 in order to justify his behaviour when Froome dropped his chain. Poetic justice, but a shame for the Vuelta. At least I didn't have any money on Nibali.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> And it raining AGAIN...likely won't get out until later, when it's supposed to stop. Where is the hot August the forecasters were going on about in July?


Wildly off-topic but it's still dry (but warm rather than hot) in Norfolk and I've already been out to test yesterday's indoor-in-the-rain bike repair. Rain's forecast for while the Vuelta's on live, but hopefully not hard enough to disrupt reception


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> And it raining AGAIN...likely won't get out until later, when it's supposed to stop. Where is the hot August the forecasters were going on about in July?


Dunno mate, have you tried looking for it in Spain? (Horrible day here too....)


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## oldroadman (24 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Dunno mate, have you tried looking for it in Spain? (Horrible day here too....)


When it rains there it REALLY rains, too. Which part, not Galicia I hope? Gets pretty damp and cool up in that corner.


----------



## Hont (24 Aug 2015)

Nibali quoted here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-left-abandoned-by-astana-at-vuelta-a-espana/

“I chased back on to show that I’m not hurt and was fine until taking a 150 metre tow - a mistake that people are ready to throw mud at me for and attack me for. Yet nobody talks about the people who attacked when others crashed, about a lone chase against 18 attackers."

Beyond childish.

“I’d have even accepted a ten-minute penalty."

Or you could have just not cheated in the first place. You wouldn't have lost ten minutes or have been chucked off the race.


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Aug 2015)

Hont said:


> Yet nobody talks about the people who attacked when others crashed, about a lone chase against 18 attackers."


He could listen to the commentary I heard, where there was talk about Sky attacking and why they were while Nibali was down. Perhaps Sky didnt see him....


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## smutchin (24 Aug 2015)

I thought (hoped) Nibbles might bounce back strongly from his disappointing Tour, but clearly his head still isn't screwed on right if he expects us to buy that line. The nobber.


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## smutchin (24 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Perhaps Sky didnt see him....



Funny how that can happen sometimes, isn't it.


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## Hont (24 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Perhaps Sky didnt see him....


After the Tour I don't ever expect a Sky team where Froome is leader to wait for Nibali. He can't really complain without being hypocritical (although that won't stop him obviously).


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## rich p (24 Aug 2015)

FWIW, Movistar and Katusha were quickly on the front too after the crash.


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## smutchin (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> FWIW, Movistar and Katusha were quickly on the front too after the crash.



Valverde is another who's always ready to take advantage of others' misfortune and equally quick to complain when anyone does the same to him.


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## rich p (24 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> Valverde is another who's always ready to take advantage of others' misfortune and equally quick to complain when anyone does the same to him.


Some quality whingeing from Nibali though. He might be taking over from Valverde as the bete noire of the peloton


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## Legs (24 Aug 2015)

He's (Valverde) a cheating cockwomble, too.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

User3094 said:


> Any links to live coverage peeps?


www.cyclingfans.com/vuelta-a-espana/live will have it but I doubt there's much before Eurosport starts at 3pm.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

Entirely predictable breakaway being held close enough to catch but not so close to be a springboard for more attacks.

Entirely predictable prevalence of sticky bottles today. Bouhanni most recently on TV. Will the commissaries call their bluff or fold?


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Entirely predictable breakaway being held close enough to catch but not so close to be a springboard for more attacks.
> 
> Entirely predictable prevalence of sticky bottles today. Bouhanni most recently on TV. Will the commissaries call their bluff or fold?


Very blatant, that one. I'm not sure that, after yet another crash, he really wanted to get going again.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Very blatant, that one. I'm not sure that, after yet another crash, he really wanted to get going again.


I wouldn't mind if he didn't, although I don't really know why I dislike him so. Still don't like seeing him crash, though.


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> I wouldn't mind if he didn't, although I don't really know why I dislike him so. Still don't like seeing him crash, though.


He does get a little petulant at the sharp end of races.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

They shut down a motorway. Respect. If only they'd do that for London Surrey Classic, I'd want to do Ride London


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## rich p (24 Aug 2015)

I'm pleased that Sagan won a stage.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I'm pleased that Sagan won a stage.


So am I, especially as he denied Bouhanni, but also because I look forward to his ITV interview


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## roadrash (24 Aug 2015)

really happy to see sagan win, its been a long time coming


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## Dayvo (24 Aug 2015)

Yep, good win for Sagan (in my fantasy team) but not so good for Fab: he's retired from the race, citing heat and stomach problems. (also in my team ).


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## rich p (24 Aug 2015)

I saw that Nibali had accused Caleb Ewan of causing the crash yesterday - wrongly as it turns out.
Reminiscent of his wild and erroneous attack on Froomedawg at the Tdf.
He's becoming a bit of a twat


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## rich p (24 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> So am I, especially as he denied Bouhanni, but also because I look forward to his ITV interview


He sounds like he's got a Punch and Judy wotsit in his throat! Always good value.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> He sounds like he's got a Punch and Judy wotsit in his throat! Always good value.


swazzle!


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## raindog (24 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> So am I, especially as he denied Bouhanni,


why?


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## Bollo (24 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> I saw that Nibali had accused Caleb Ewan of causing the crash yesterday - wrongly as it turns out.
> Reminiscent of his wild and erroneous attack on Froomedawg at the Tdf.
> He's becoming a bit of a twat


Just seen his interview on ITV ketchup. His pants were well on fire.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

raindog said:


> why?


I don't like Bouhanni but I don't really remember why.


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## Bollo (24 Aug 2015)

Commissaries sticky bottle it with Bouhanni. 100CHF fine according to the ITV highlights show, but still in the race. It was nowhere near as blatant as Nibali's taxi ride, but the decision will only feed Nibble's/Astana's persecution complex.


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## themosquitoking (24 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> I don't like Bouhanni but I don't really remember why.


I cherish all of my grudges that have been going so long the origins are lost in the mists of time.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I cherish all of my grudges that have been going so long the origins are lost in the mists of time.


His playacting avoidance of Matt Rendell's question (probably about that booster bottle) didn't do anything to change my view.


----------



## JohnClimber (24 Aug 2015)




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## oldroadman (24 Aug 2015)

Bollo said:


> Commissaries sticky bottle it with Bouhanni. 100CHF fine according to the ITV highlights show, but still in the race. It was nowhere near as blatant as Nibali's taxi ride, but the decision will only feed Nibble's/Astana's persecution complex.


That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.


----------



## ColinJ (24 Aug 2015)

It seemed fair enough to me ... blatant cheating to improve position = disqualification; a little bit of help while you are feeling battered and getting your head together, not much advantage gained = slap on the wrist, and a warning not to do it again!


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.


Agreed. A different order of infringement. Besides, he didn't look as if he even wanted to be on a bike at that point. The only real support he got was psychological, but the physical part was blatant. A bind for the commissaires after yesterday's decision


----------



## Cathryn (25 Aug 2015)

That pic of the Astana team car! Perfection!


----------



## JMAG (25 Aug 2015)

They should just make towing legal like rollerball. That would liven things up a bit


----------



## HF2300 (25 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> I've just watched the video. Maybe they did (wouldn't you, if you're not a GC rider and no longer have one on the front to slipstream?), but WTH was the driver thinking putting the foot down that much???



Oh, absolutely, just amused me. Not only what was the driver thinking, but what was Nibali thinking still holding on when the car accelerated? Everyone does dull things now and again, but that was particularly dull from someone who's supposed to have good race awareness.



Origamist said:


> Yes, Karma indeed. It was only a few weeks ago that Nibali was recalling how Froome took a help from a team car in 2010 in order to justify his behaviour when Froome dropped his chain. Poetic justice, but a shame for the Vuelta.





Hont said:


> After the Tour I don't ever expect a Sky team where Froome is leader to wait for Nibali. He can't really complain without being hypocritical.



Can't help feeling this Instant Karma / Froome vs Nibali / Sky vs Astana / 'Remember the Tour' business is getting a bit old now. How far should the karma go back, and to who? Sky (including Froome) and others have done their share of dubious things in the past; probably most of the top GC guys have infringed the written and unwritten rules at times.



oldroadman said:


> If the commenters on here had bothered to check the UCI site, the rule is clear. Hold on to a car and gain any kind of advantage, out you go.



I'm not sure anyone said the rule wasn't clear, or that he shouldn't be excluded?



oldroadman said:


> That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter...



...Nibali hurtling off into the distance was blatant and he deserved to go, and the sticky bottle is a separate offence with a lesser penalty anyway (presumably why Bouhanni wasn't chucked out, and why Nibali was stupid not to just take a big sticky bottle without engaging warp speed); but at what point does the rider holding on to the door top while the mechanic leans out of the car (Itself an offence) and pretends to adjust the seat or brakes become a disqualification matter?



rich p said:


> I saw that Nibali had accused Caleb Ewan of causing the crash yesterday - wrongly as it turns out.
> Reminiscent of his wild and erroneous attack on Froomedawg at the Tdf.
> He's becoming a bit of a twat



Certainly lost a lot of his class this year. Don't remember him being this much of a nobber in previous years. Wonder if the goings on at Astana are getting to him?


----------



## mjr (25 Aug 2015)

The Astana situation must be getting to Nibali. I don't understand why else he keeps inviting scorn, such as pointing out Froome's Giro disqualification for grabbing a moto. Of course then people will be keen to see him get disqualified for grabbing a car.


----------



## themosquitoking (25 Aug 2015)

Just dropped someone off at Málaga airport and saw tiralongo there looking very broken and alone.


----------



## Hont (25 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> Just dropped someone off at Málaga airport and saw tiralongo there looking very broken and alone.


Was Nibali there too? Sat on his suitcase holding onto a baggage trolley as it sped towards the departure lounge.


----------



## oldroadman (25 Aug 2015)

*at what point does the rider holding on to the door top while the mechanic leans out of the car (Itself an offence) and pretends to adjust the seat or brakes become a disqualification matter?*




It doesn't if the car isn't moving faster than everyone else. There are some things that happen in races that sensible commissaires simply don't see, because although technical offences, they do nothing to alter the outcome of the race. This is what experience teaches. It all helps the fines pot, though, and teams at any decent level have a budget for just that, because when you skirt the limit of the rules (written and sometimes unwritten, we have all done that) sometimes it's a few Swiss francs to the UCI. All a bit of a game, some you win, some you lose! There's a funny old rule which says that leaning out of moving cars to "grease chains" is forbidden. Nothing about brake adjustments, altering seat height, etc., just don't be naughty and lean out of the car - kerching!, that'll be 50 SFr please, team whoever.


----------



## mjr (25 Aug 2015)

Yesterday's on-board videos (HT Eurosport, playing them before today's live video). About 1m03, it looks like Bouhanni was the first man down in the pile-up?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohr1xUZs0Vw


----------



## Bollo (25 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.


I'm not disagreeing and think both decisions were correct. The point I was making was that, given the high profile nature of Nibble's DQ, the commissaires _might_ have felt under greater pressure to punish similar infractions, even though the degree of offence was far lower.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 Aug 2015)

I am now almost 100% sure that Nibali will not be at Astana next season, and probably most of his Italian entourage will be going with him, wherever it is he is going.


----------



## jarlrmai (25 Aug 2015)

Millar is like a cool tailwind on a hot day.


----------



## Buddfox (25 Aug 2015)

jarlrmai said:


> Millar is like a cool tailwind on a hot day.



I don't know, he must have described various riders as being in the "perfect situation" about sixty times in the last ten minutes of today's stage. But it's easy to pick holes in any commentator really.


----------



## Rustybucket (25 Aug 2015)

Dare I say Millar is already starting to annoy me..... 

However Ned and Dave are an 100% improvement on Eurosports commentary! And at least if your recording the highlights you know itv will show them at 7pm

Enjoying this race immensely so far!


----------



## smutchin (26 Aug 2015)

As a sub editor by trade, I feel that what this Vuelta really needs is a stage finishing in Seville and for Carlos Barbero to win it.


----------



## Dogtrousers (26 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> As a sub editor by trade, I feel that what this Vuelta really needs is a stage finishing in Seville and for Carlos Barbero to win it.


Or maybe some Euskatel Euskadi riders in orange. Not terribly likely, I grant you.


----------



## rich p (26 Aug 2015)

Excellent uphill sprint from Orica's Caleb Ewan. They're having a better Vuelta than Tour!


----------



## mjr (26 Aug 2015)

Are Ned and David's reminiscences better than P&P's sightseeing? I think so.


----------



## HF2300 (27 Aug 2015)

oldroadman said:


> ... the rule is clear. Hold on to a car and gain any kind of advantage, out you go...





oldroadman said:


> [holding onto the car] doesn't [become a disqualification matter] if the car isn't moving faster than everyone else. There are some things that happen in races that sensible commissaires simply don't see, because although technical offences, they do nothing to alter the outcome of the race.



I think that's probably what I'm thinking, in that these two positions are inconsistent. That isn't a go at you, just thinking about the inconsistencies and perhaps injustices that can creep in when turning blind eyes. It's always difficult to know what will and won't affect the outcome of a race.



Bollo said:


> I'm not disagreeing and think both decisions were correct. The point I was making was that, given the high profile nature of Nibble's DQ, the commissaires _might_ have felt under greater pressure to punish similar infractions, even though the degree of offence was far lower.



I think Nibbles' offence was judged to be holding on to the car, while Bouhanni's was a sticky bottle offence for which the penalties are much lower, and don't include elimination.

Great sprint by Ewan yesterday. Sagan can console himself with the thought that at least he didn't come second. That uphill looked a bit of a killer - they all seemed to be running out of legs.

Thinking particularly about Sagan's comments about yesterday's and the previous day's finishes, it really surprises me that in these days of (supposedly) more professionalism and marginal gains, riders still often don't seem to know the detail of crucial parts of stages.


----------



## HF2300 (27 Aug 2015)

Buddfox said:


> I don't know, he must have described various riders as being in the "perfect situation" about sixty times in the last ten minutes of today's stage. But it's easy to pick holes in any commentator really.



Think we have to remember Millar and Boulting are still very inexperienced. The whole thing is a bit bumbling as Boulting hasn't really got his rider recognition sussed yet, and Millar's making judgements about individual or team tactics which inevitably will be wrong sometimes - but at least he's watching, and trying to tell us what's happening. One thing I do like is that they are happy to tell us what they think is happening and correct themselves if they're wrong, unlike P&P who seem unaware of what's happening or carry on talking nonsense even when what's going on is clearly the opposite of what they've said.

Whatever the minor issues, I think having an expert summariser who's been in the modern peloton and really thinks about the sport and the race is invaluable. Despite mistakes or naivety, I learn more from Millar in one highlights programme than I would from 3 weeks of a GT with Statler and Waldorf.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (27 Aug 2015)

Wow..
How to brass neck nicking a bike...

Sorry if already posted..


----------



## w00hoo_kent (27 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Think we have to remember Millar and Boulting are still very inexperienced. The whole thing is a bit bumbling as Boulting hasn't really got his rider recognition sussed yet, and Millar's making judgements about individual or team tactics which inevitably will be wrong sometimes - but at least he's watching, and trying to tell us what's happening. One thing I do like is that they are happy to tell us what they think is happening and correct themselves if they're wrong, unlike P&P who seem unaware of what's happening or carry on talking nonsense even when what's going on is clearly the opposite of what they've said.


The other thing is that they only have one crew out at the actual race (Matt Renshaw?) and everything else is happening in a studio back in the UK, so they won't have the same access to race radio etc. that they would have if they were commentating on the spot. Basically it's the TV equivalent of someone putting up a Powerpoint slide and then reading the text on it out loud.


----------



## HF2300 (27 Aug 2015)

Matt Rendell, I think!



Bobby Mhor said:


> Wow..
> How to brass neck nicking a bike..



Ben King said the guy told him he was too injured to ride to the finish so the guy 'volunteered' to ride it to the finish for him!


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> The whole thing is a bit bumbling as Boulting hasn't really got his rider recognition sussed yet


That is my only criticism. His rider recognition isn't fast enough but it is improving.


----------



## mjr (27 Aug 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> The other thing is that they only have one crew out at the actual race (Matt [Rendell - HT @HF2300]?) and everything else is happening in a studio back in the UK, so they won't have the same access to race radio etc. that they would have if they were commentating on the spot. Basically it's the TV equivalent of someone putting up a Powerpoint slide and then reading the text on it out loud.


Yes, they can't look out of the window and they don't have high-def feeds. However, whatever they are getting is probably higher-quality than the itv4 broadcast because they've read a few rider numbers and so on that I couldn't even on freeze-frame.

It's noticeably not quite as good as when they did the Tour of Yorkshire, but I still prefer it to P&P.

What's with Eurosport's coverage this year? So much is in English and the poor German commentator (Karsten Migels again, I think) has to interpret almost all of it. Does the woman (whose name I've not caught - sorry) doing the interviews this year not speak many languages?


----------



## Berk on a Bike (27 Aug 2015)

The Eurosport interviewer is Laura Meseguer. She can converse in French and Spanish as well as English (possibly Italian as well?).


----------



## uncle_adolph (27 Aug 2015)

Can't understand why everyone seems so anti-Carlton Kirby and Sean Kelly. True, Seany does rabbit on and say the same thing about six times over before he puts down the mic but I have always much prefered Eurosport's coverage to anyone elses.

Mind you, I do wish Dave Harmon would come back.


----------



## Dogtrousers (27 Aug 2015)

I think I prefer the ITV crew to Carlton Kirby and the Priest with the Most Boring Voice from Father Ted. But generally I'm happy with either. Phil n Paul are a different kettle of fish. In an odd way I quite like them, even though they are rubbish.


----------



## roadrash (27 Aug 2015)

hmm ,ive only just noticed tat a trek rider is using disc brakes , i hadnt noticed them in the pro peleton before


----------



## Bobby Mhor (27 Aug 2015)

I've no problem with Mr Kirby's ramblings...
Father Stone, sorry Father Sean does rather mumble at times...
I like the wee bloke who just shoves the microphone up into the riders faces for interviews but he's not at La Vuelta only yon young lady..


----------



## Supersuperleeds (27 Aug 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think I prefer the ITV crew to Carlton Kirby and the Priest with the Most Boring Voice from Father Ted. But generally I'm happy with either. * Phil n Paul are a different kettle of fish. In an odd way I quite like them, even though they are rubbish.*



Same here, TDF wouldn't be the same without them.


----------



## tug benson (27 Aug 2015)

Chaves takes the stage


----------



## rich p (27 Aug 2015)

Dan Just Too Late Martin comes in second!


----------



## mjr (27 Aug 2015)

And Ned referred to race radio today, just to confuse everyone who thinks they don't have it!


----------



## themosquitoking (27 Aug 2015)

roadrash said:


> hmm ,ive only just noticed tat a trek rider is using disc brakes , i hadnt noticed them in the pro peleton before


I saw that too. I hope he didn't puncture.


----------



## mjr (27 Aug 2015)

Can Chaves keep red tomorrow? Last 20km at 5% or so


----------



## HF2300 (27 Aug 2015)

Another cracker by Chaves. Be interesting to see how he does in the serious mountains. Brave, or at least sure of yourself, to go from the base of the climb.



rich p said:


> Dan Just Too Late Martin comes in second!



Supposedly he's changing his name to Sagan



User said:


> Dan Martin threw away todays stage ... he should or has to go earlier,



Millar was suggesting that going late and putting a short deep effort in is where his strength lies, and he possibly hasn't got the ability to go for a long finishing effort. His suggestion was that Martin needs better teamwork to give him protection and bring him up to the point where he can put in a successful attack. I don't know if my memory's playing tricks but I thought I remembered him putting in long efforts in other GTs, though perhaps not in similar situations.


----------



## rich p (27 Aug 2015)

HF2300 said:


> I don't know if my memory's playing tricks but I thought I remembered him putting in long efforts in other GTs, though perhaps not in similar situations


I remember him winning a long effort in the Vuelta (or Tour?), a couple of years ago when he outsprinted Fuglsang. I can't recall the exact parcours though.


----------



## timbono5 (28 Aug 2015)

Anyone else play the "Dan Martin drinking game"? Everytime Carlton and Sean say his name take a drink. I guarentee you'll end up plastered every time!


----------



## tug benson (28 Aug 2015)

Froome dropped


----------



## rich p (28 Aug 2015)

Aru looking good


----------



## tug benson (28 Aug 2015)

great fight from the breakway for the stage win


----------



## HF2300 (28 Aug 2015)

Cat and mouse from the leaders, really - all a bit cagey. Aru was testing things but it didn't really look as though anyone wanted to seriously compete today?

Sensible, mature comments from Chaves at the end, as well, about not chasing everyone. OGE have a bit of a habit of taking first week stages then fading - be nice to see him stay up there in the overall.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Aug 2015)

I didn't realise until just now that Cousin had a little off towards the end of the climb.

I'm sure I heard Millar say he was 100% sure that the breakaway would get caught....


----------



## themosquitoking (28 Aug 2015)

If the Astana management had noticed Froome off the back sooner it might have been.


----------



## timbono5 (29 Aug 2015)

Looks like the guys who did the tour are really struggling. Could come down to another Landa Vs Aru battle.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> If the Astana management had noticed Froome off the back sooner it might have been.



Thing is, when you're wearing an Astana kit, Froome becomes invisible to you.


----------



## mjr (29 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'm sure I heard Millar say he was 100% sure that the breakaway would get caught....


Well, most of them did. Do you think he'll say that again? Is he the sort of person who learns from his mistakes?


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2015)

timbono5 said:


> Looks like the guys who did the tour are really struggling. Could come down to another Landa Vs Aru battle.


I was surprised that Froome and Thomas decided to do this race. Quintana too, I guess. They were both pretty much out on their feet at the end of the tour. Landa seems to be more human in this than he did in the Giro. Time will tell though. Maybe Chaves will still be there in the bigger mountains.
Not uninteresting but Aru could be the favourite now.


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2015)

Aru is going to need more time before the TT.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Aug 2015)

IAM Cycling's plan for today's stage has been leaked on twitter


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Tejay out! Collarbone, from the sound of it. 

Boeckmans out too - didn't see the crash but it sounds like a fairly nasty one. Lots of riders involved.


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2015)

Dan Martin too FFS


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Aug 2015)

Bouhanni's out too.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Is that Richard Virenque on the Festina ad? He seems to have turned into Paul Hollywood.

(Also, why on earth would Festina still want their name to be associated with him?)


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Ooh, Sagan not a happy bunny!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Aug 2015)

Sagan's had an off and, judging by his anger directed at the medical car, it looks like the docmobile took him out.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Hansen! Yay! Go on, boy!


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2015)

Ooh, couldn't make it stick. Shame.

Good win for Stuyven but you can't help feeling Sagan would have taken that comfortably if he hadn't been taken out. Chiz!

That's some nice road rash he's showing off where his shorts should be.


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2015)

Hilarious from Sagan. There seems to have been a lot of car/motorbike incidents this year


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2015)

As Juan Antonio says. He's pretty mad about it


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> Boeckmans out too - didn't see the crash but it sounds like a fairly nasty one. Lots of riders involved.




According to Lotto Soudal twitter feed he has "a severe facial trauma with several fractures and will probably need surgery"...as well as "a concussion, 3 broken ribs and had a bleeding in his lung. He is now kept in an induced coma for a few days."


----------



## Berk on a Bike (29 Aug 2015)

Tinkoff Saxo "considers legal actions" against those responsible for Sagan's accident (Shimano bike).

http://www.tinkoffsaxo.com/news/tin...sponsible-for-accident-involving-peter-sagan/

Meanwhile, Sagan has been fined 300 Swiss Francs for "insults and threats" and "undermining the image of cycling". The motorbike involved has been withdrawn from the race.

http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/ci...-la-imagen-del-ciclismo.html#.Kku8SRg9Fa6xXP3


----------



## Supersuperleeds (29 Aug 2015)

Lots of crashes today, Sagan kicking his bike was quite comical. Hope the rider who they had to tube makes a full recovery.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> According to Lotto Soudal twitter feed he has "a severe facial trauma with several fractures and will probably need surgery"...as well as "a concussion, 3 broken ribs and had a bleeding in his lung. He is now kept in an induced coma for a few days."



Just seen on the ITV highlights via another Lotto Soudal rider that he was drinking from his water bottle and hit a pot hole. All looked very nasty - hope he recovers soon


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Aug 2015)

Trek reporting that Stuyven won today with a broken scaphoid


----------



## Berk on a Bike (29 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Trek reporting that Stuyven won today with a broken scaphoid


Considering the reportedly shítty road surface on the climb that's some going.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Considering the reportedly shítty road surface on the climb that's some going.


He might be feeling it a bit now!


----------



## Mattonsea (29 Aug 2015)

Sorry is this a World Tour Event, considering the resurfacing in Yorkshire that went on in 2014, is it acceptable in Spain.


----------



## mjr (29 Aug 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> Sorry is this a World Tour Event, considering the resurfacing in Yorkshire that went on in 2014, is it acceptable in Spain.


It seems to be a bit different when a race wants to go somewhere, rather than being bought by somewhere.


----------



## Mattonsea (29 Aug 2015)

User said:


> generally road surfaces in Spain are not too bad, it has been a very hot summer which might have something to do with it....but going up some steep mountain roads you sometimes come across what looks like blocks of concrete but they are surprising good for climbing steep roads...


The recce should of pinpointed this problem, I understand the Vuelta isn't treated the same as the Tour but even so...


----------



## Rustybucket (30 Aug 2015)

Just seen Sagans road rash! Ouch! Love his reaction - bloody nobber motorbike!


----------



## sleaver (30 Aug 2015)

Segan has pulled out due to his injuries. 

http://www.tinkoffsaxo.com/news/peter-sagan-retire-vuelta-espana/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Trek reporting that Stuyven won today with a broken scaphoid


And he's out of the race


----------



## Mattonsea (30 Aug 2015)

Anyone still upright?


----------



## Mattonsea (30 Aug 2015)

Oh yea Frank Schleck


----------



## Strathlubnaig (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> And he's out of the race


Cracking stookie there


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> Anyone still upright?


183 riders started today's stage


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2015)

That was an unexpected day of attrition


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2015)

timbono5 said:


> Looks like the guys who did the tour are really struggling. Could come down to another Landa Vs Aru battle.


Are you watching the same race

It's week one and no high mountain stages yet. It's far too early to tell.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Come on Eurosport, do you really need to postpone the live coverage of the cycling to show some people get a medal at the athletics?!
edit - oh FFS, it's not even live til 3pm!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Another crash, another rider out. 3rd IAM Cycling rider to abandon, this time it's Thomas Degand


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2015)

I normally use the live report on cyclingnews until there's TV coverage but they aren't running it today. What's another easy link to live news?

edit; ignore this post. Found it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

And now we have doper Maurice Greene babbling on about other dopers who run a bit. GET. IT. OFF.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Here's something that doesn't happen everyday - me giving fashion advice...

But FFS, Ashley House, do not tuck your polo shirt into your trousers, and don't wear F*CKING red trousers!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Here's something that doesn't happen everyday - me giving fashion advice...
> 
> But FFS, Ashley House, do not tuck your polo shirt into your trousers, and don't wear F*CKING red trousers!


What kind of tyre is that wrapped around his waist? I don't think it would fit on any of my frames.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (30 Aug 2015)

sleaver said:


> Segan has pulled out due to his injuries.
> 
> http://www.tinkoffsaxo.com/news/peter-sagan-retire-vuelta-espana/



That's two riders I've lost from my velo team now.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

That climb was a bit of a bugger. 2nd time round should be fun.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (30 Aug 2015)

Has Thomas been allowed to go in the break because Froome isn't feeling okay, or are they putting him up there so Froome (or Roche I suppose) have someone to help when they get to the final climb?


----------



## sleaver (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> That climb was a bit of a bugger. 2nd time round should be fun.


I'm sure some of the riders will be thinking otherwise


----------



## Bobby Mhor (30 Aug 2015)

sleaver said:


> I'm sure some of the riders will be thinking otherwise


Yeah, its only reaches 25% in the first part going down to bits of 18%, scoosh


----------



## mjr (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> 183 riders started today's stage


Give Shimano neutral service a few minutes, they'll soon bring it down to a more manageable number.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (30 Aug 2015)

Come on Froome.....


----------



## Crackle (30 Aug 2015)

Dumoulin! Cripes.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (30 Aug 2015)

That was class ...
testing each other with sharp bursts..
Excellent finish


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2015)

Well, that was a pretty exciting finale. Most enjoyable.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Wow.


----------



## roadrash (30 Aug 2015)

what a finish , im knackered watching it


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Marmion said:


> Wow.



Dumoulin cannae quite believe it either...
"What. The. F**k! I can't believe this! Winning on a steep climb like this... Amazing feeling!"


----------



## Rustybucket (30 Aug 2015)

Another good stage to watch! Looking forward to itv's highlights tonight too!


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2015)

Well, Rustybucket is looking forward to watching them on itv, which might be a bit of a clue.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (30 Aug 2015)

[QUOTE 3880251, member: 45"]Are the highlights on anything other than Eurosport?[/QUOTE]

ITV4 7pm


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2015)

Crikey, what a fab stage finish.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2015)

Teejay wants the racing to be safer, and tweets to the UCI:
"Want to make racing safer? Let's get rid of the radios"


----------



## Berk on a Bike (30 Aug 2015)

Has anyone seen any baseless remarks online re. Dumoulin and doping? I just wonder given the invective aimed at other riders when they put in an "off the charts" performance...


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2015)

You know when they look at a sporting great and they say this is the moment he broke through - I believe we just saw that today. He has the talent. The last 200m showed that extra bit that's required to go from a good sportsman to a great sportsman. 

Loving the Vuelta . Last climb was like a boxing match between about 10 cyclists.


----------



## Andrew Br (30 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Has anyone seen any baseless remarks online re. Dumoulin and doping? I just wonder given the invective aimed at other riders when they put in an "off the charts" performance...



I thought this ^



400bhp said:


> You know when they look at a sporting great and they say this is the moment he broke through - I believe we just saw that today. He has the talent. The last 200m showed that extra bit that's required to go from a good sportsman to a great sportsman.



But I'm choosing to believe this ^

I hope I'm right.


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2015)

I don't think we saw any superhuman performances today. I think we saw a lot of riders who have little left to give at the end of a long, hard season. Like heavyweight boxers trading tired blows at the end of the 13th round. Majka rode a canny race, not following the attacks but sitting there biding his time. I said to my son, watch him, he's going to attack any moment, and when he did I thought he had it in the bag. But clearly the Tour has taken its toll. Purito and Valverde both look shagged. Froome's late flourish was astonishing, but he benefitted from riding his own race rather than trying to chase the attacks. I still don't think he'll have enough in the tank to go the distance. 

Dumoulin will be relatively fresh after his early withdrawal from the Tour but the real climbing is still to come. I'd be very surprised if he still has the red jersey after stage 11.

Aru looks like he's still riding himself into racing form but there's a long way to go yet and I'd still have him as favourite.


----------



## timbono5 (30 Aug 2015)

Aru was my favourite going into it but he hasn't picked up any time so far and will no doubt lose time to Froome in the time trial.


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2015)

But how much will he gain in the big mountain stages?


----------



## timbono5 (30 Aug 2015)

Depends how long Froome can hold this current form I guess!


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Has anyone seen any baseless remarks online re. Dumoulin and doping? I just wonder given the invective aimed at other riders when they put in an "off the charts" performance...



http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30049&sid=a24330477de4f1d8280af02dfcdb35c0

Doping cliche bingo, anyone? It just sounds so tired and lame, they're really not trying any more over there.

'The new Indurain' is a good one.


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2015)

Like Smutch, so far the racing, fatigue and efforts look believable to me.


----------



## Buddfox (30 Aug 2015)

I have no reason to believe that Dumoulin is on the sauce, but he seemed a bit taken aback by Matt Rendell's questioning after the stage (on the ITV4 highlights) which doesn't help as far as the cynics are concerned. The question came across perhaps more accusatory than it was intended (basically compared Chavez and Dumoulin in terms of size, and i.e. how can you as a big guy beat a small guy up a hill), and he flapped a bit in answering it ("erm well, more power, erm I've lost some weight in the last few weeks but apparently not any power"; not because he has anything to hide, I just think he was a bit bemused by the tone of the question).

I think we're all a bit too cynical, but when someone says they are managing to generate more power for less weight, some people will roll their eyes. Weird, because that's what every cyclist who races can and does achieve week in, week out.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (30 Aug 2015)

smutchin said:


> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30049&sid=a24330477de4f1d8280af02dfcdb35c0
> 
> Doping cliche bingo, anyone? It just sounds so tired and lame, they're really not trying any more over there.
> 
> 'The new Indurain' is a good one.


F***ng hell. Nice that they dragoon Daphne Schippers into their reasoning.


----------



## Mattonsea (31 Aug 2015)

I suppose the issue is can we tell if someone is micro dosing. Riders have had off days in all 3 GT's , paid for exertions the next day, all look knackered in this final race ,especially if they did the Tour. Aru should be right on form but as has been stated ,riding into the race. My point is can we tell who is micro dosing , because the idiots who juice up like its the 2003 are being caught easily .
That said all the racing this year looks credible ,I cant see people climbing and looking like they are on a trip to the shops.


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2015)

Bouhanni says he's keen to bounce back, but I think that's part of his problem


----------



## Strathlubnaig (31 Aug 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> I suppose the issue is can we tell if someone is micro dosing. Riders have had off days in all 3 GT's , paid for exertions the next day, all look knackered in this final race ,especially if they did the Tour. Aru should be right on form but as has been stated ,riding into the race. My point is can we tell who is micro dosing , because the idiots who juice up like its the 2003 are being caught easily .
> That said all the racing this year looks credible ,I cant see people climbing and looking like they are on a trip to the shops.


Yes, have not seen any one race up hills while chatting on the radio easily and giving the 'get on my wheel if you can' signal to the guys they just blew past.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (31 Aug 2015)

Buddfox said:


> I have no reason to believe that Dumoulin is on the sauce, but he seemed a bit taken aback by Matt Rendell's questioning after the stage (on the ITV4 highlights) which doesn't help as far as the cynics are concerned. The question came across perhaps more accusatory than it was intended (basically compared Chavez and Dumoulin in terms of size, and i.e. how can you as a big guy beat a small guy up a hill), and he flapped a bit in answering it ("erm well, more power, erm I've lost some weight in the last few weeks but apparently not any power"; not because he has anything to hide, I just think he was a bit bemused by the tone of the question).
> 
> I think we're all a bit too cynical, but when someone says they are managing to generate more power for less weight, some people will roll their eyes. Weird, because that's what every cyclist who races can and does achieve week in, week out.


When he went on to add that he'd just lost some weight but not power, he did so with a surprised tone of voice. I reckon he's as surprised by his form as anybody else, and happy about his good fortune. Sincerely hope he's clean because he could be a great rider, he looks great on a bike, and I find the guy very likeable.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (31 Aug 2015)

rich p said:


> Bouhanni says he's keen to bounce back, but I think that's part of his problem


Candidate for the classic quotes thread! (Why don't we have one?)


----------



## Supersuperleeds (31 Aug 2015)

Ewan out? Typical I picked him in the pro pundits thread.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (31 Aug 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Candidate for the classic quotes thread! (Why don't we have one?)


Nacer (I cant spell Bouhanni) should put springs instead of pads in his shorts


----------



## mjr (31 Aug 2015)

Sky riders love little lies down on the tarmac today?


----------



## Berk on a Bike (31 Aug 2015)

Update on Kris Boeckmans: doctors attempted to bring him out of his induced coma today but found he was unable to breathe independently due to his lung injuries, so re-induced him where he expects to stay for another week 

http://www.biciciclismo.com/es/boeckmans-no-puede-escapar-del-coma-inducido-01-09-2015


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Update on Kris Boeckmans: doctors attempted to bring him out of his induced coma today but found he was unable to breathe independently due to his lung injuries, so re-induced him where he expects to stay for another week
> 
> http://www.biciciclismo.com/es/boeckmans-no-puede-escapar-del-coma-inducido-01-09-2015


I'm liking the fact you care enough about him to check up on his status. I hope he GWS and it just seems horrific to me that he's had to undergo being put into a coma for crashing a bike. They should all just slow down.


----------



## timbono5 (31 Aug 2015)

Good luck to the guy. Thoughts are with his family at this time. Being a pro athlete gives him the best chance of a good recovery.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (31 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I'm liking the fact you care enough about him to check up on his status. I hope he GWS and it just seems horrific to me that he's had to undergo being put into a coma for crashing a bike. They should all just slow down.


A Spanish cycling website tweeted that link, so I can't take any credit for seeking it out, but I'm happy (wrong word, but, you know...) to share it.


----------



## ColinJ (31 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I'm liking the fact you care enough about him to check up on his status. I hope he GWS and it just seems horrific to me that he's had to undergo being put into a coma for crashing a bike. They should all just slow down.


I agree that it is horrific and I hope he makes a full recovery, but it wouldn't be much of a race if everyone agreed to slow down, i.e, _NOT_ race!


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I agree that it is horrific and I hope he makes a full recovery, but it wouldn't be much of a race if everyone agreed to slow down, i.e, _NOT_ race!


I know but as you get older you worry more for these fragile young things that still think they're all invincible.


----------



## ColinJ (31 Aug 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> I know but as you get older you worry more for these fragile young things that still think they're all invincible.


When you see them with their helmets and sunglasses on it is easy to think that they are older than they are but they do look awfully young when you see them without!


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> When you see them with their helmets and sunglasses on it is easy to think that they are older than they are but they do look awfully young when you see them without!


My missus has developed an awful crush on Chaves over the last week.


----------



## mjr (1 Sep 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> My missus has developed an awful crush on Chaves over the last week.


Better get practising that grin!


----------



## Berk on a Bike (1 Sep 2015)

Niki Terpstra makes a point by posting the bus transfer on Strava (but promises to remove it after bagging a load of KOMs)

https://www.strava.com/activities/382400269


----------



## HF2300 (1 Sep 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Has anyone seen any baseless remarks online re. Dumoulin and doping? I just wonder given the invective aimed at other riders when they put in an "off the charts" performance...



I think the time to worry about Dumoulin doping is when he blows everyone away tomorrow. Hopefully I won't be swallowing my words this time tomorrow night, but somehow I don't see it happening.


----------



## HF2300 (1 Sep 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Niki Terpstra makes a point by posting the bus transfer on Strava (but promises to remove it after bagging a load of KOMs)
> 
> https://www.strava.com/activities/382400269



Silly, but quite inspired.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (1 Sep 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Niki Terpstra makes a point by posting the bus transfer on Strava (but promises to remove it after bagging a load of KOMs)
> 
> https://www.strava.com/activities/382400269





HF2300 said:


> Silly, but quite inspired.



Some miserable bugger has flagged it


----------



## Mattonsea (1 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> I think the time to worry about Dumoulin doping is when he blows everyone away tomorrow. Hopefully I won't be swallowing my words this time tomorrow night, but somehow I don't see it happening.


Tomorrow will be the crux of the 3 weeks , If he hauls his bulk over all those climbs tomorrow, and in front , I wont hold my disbelief .


----------



## tug benson (1 Sep 2015)

Tomorrows stage is on Eurosprt from 12:30, all of the stage live...I won't be able to get home from work quick enough..


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (1 Sep 2015)

On this Dumoulin is a big man so shouldn't be able to climb narrative, I got puzzled because he has a very light, long build with none of that bulky baroudeur muscle. So I just had a look at his Wiki page. 6'1'', 71 kg (11st2lb). If he's just lost a bit of weight then he's not actually that far from Froome (wiki gives 6'1'',67.5kg) . Under half an inch shorter, maybe just 1 or 2 kg, if that, over Froome's vitals. Serves me right, I suppose, for listening to Ned Boulting on ITV4 because he keeps on about it, but there's little reason why he should disappear on the real mountains when many expect Froome to shoot up them. I reckon the comparative difference is not that big at all. That said, of course, he might struggle after a rest day, and make my don't write him off witterings completely inept.


----------



## T4tomo (1 Sep 2015)

It's just so odd we have a really good TT rider who lost some weight and then could climb quite well, it's never been done before, oh hang ..............on sir Bradley Wiggins.

I personally don't think Dumoulin will keep red this week, but I do think he's a cracking bike rider.


----------



## T4tomo (1 Sep 2015)

It's just so odd we have a really good TT rider who lost some weight and then could climb quite well, it's never been done before, oh hang ..............on sir Bradley Wiggins.

I personally don't think Dumoulin will keep red this week, but I do think he's a cracking bike rider.


----------



## T4tomo (1 Sep 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> My missus has developed an awful crush on Chaves over the last week.


Smile like that I've almost got a crush on him, what's not to like.


----------



## themosquitoking (1 Sep 2015)

T4tomo said:


> Smile like that I've almost got a crush on him, what's not to like.


The rest of our household, i.e. me is very much in the Nairo camp. You can pick him up and rock him in your arms.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (1 Sep 2015)

Tomorrow's stage is going to be very wet. It could all get a bit Wacky Races.


----------



## smutchin (1 Sep 2015)

themosquitoking said:


> The rest of our household, i.e. me is very much in the Nairo camp. You can pick him up and rock him in your arms.



He's a giant next to Pozzovivo!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Sep 2015)

The first 10 stages have been very good, with some excellent racing. I fear that the next few stages (the "epic" ones) may not be nearly as good.


----------



## Legs (2 Sep 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Niki Terpstra makes a point by posting the bus transfer on Strava (but promises to remove it after bagging a load of KOMs)
> 
> https://www.strava.com/activities/382400269


It looks like one of Nibali's Strava traces...


----------



## sleaver (2 Sep 2015)

I bet the sprinters woke up this morning with a spring in their step after the rest day rearing to go today.................................not


----------



## roadrash (2 Sep 2015)

i bet the sprinters have got faces as long as todays climbs


----------



## sleaver (2 Sep 2015)

Is the actual elevation gain of todays stage listed anywhere?


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> Is the actual elevation gain of todays stage listed anywhere?



No, it broke all the displays.


----------



## blazed (2 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> Is the actual elevation gain of todays stage listed anywhere?



It's 17000ft in less than 80 miles I think. 
Hell of a ride normally, let alone racing it.


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

User3094 said:


> According to the Tour Tracker app its 23,568 feet in 85.7 miles.



Only 3/4 Everest. Lightweights.

I have a feeling this might be a disappointment. The expectation is the race blowing apart and attacks at every summit; the actuality might be 'stuff this, let's take it easy until the last climb'


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

Also only the start of week 2, so no-one's forced to seriously commit yet. Could be more a weeding out of those who don't really have the legs?


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

Chute de Froome - already!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (2 Sep 2015)

Froome looking at his stem again.... keep the heid up man !!


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

Kelly: "It does happen... at that moment, you look down..."


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2015)

Hope Froome doesn't have to use too much effort catching up


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2015)

Boeckman's crash was caused by glugging a bidon and not seeing a pothole apparently.


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

So Jelle Vanendert said


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Sep 2015)

The team know him as Ian Boswell but I think he should be called Bobby Boswell.


----------



## smutchin (2 Sep 2015)

Kelly & Kirby were speculating why Astana were chasing when Landa is in the break. 

I tweeted Kirby to suggest that maybe the fact that he's leaving the team soon is a factor. 

A few minutes later, Kelly & Kirby are speculating that maybe Landa leaving the team is causing friction within the ranks. 

Hmph.


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2015)

Kirby is having an embarrassingly inept day.


----------



## perplexed (2 Sep 2015)

I've just painted my shed the colour of that sky in the distance...


----------



## perplexed (2 Sep 2015)

By the way, has anyone ever seen Kiryenka and Nico Rosberg in the same room together?


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> Kirby is having an embarrassingly inept day.



I'm losing the will to live. Please let him not mention Naturelandia again.

Time to go and do something useful and reconvene for the highlights, I think.


----------



## HF2300 (2 Sep 2015)

Whatever happened to musettes? I thought you gave feed bags to horses.


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

Landa attacks from the breakaway, then Astana up the pace in the Peloton


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

wet roads now


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

Froome in trouble, dropped...


----------



## smutchin (2 Sep 2015)

Hmmm, looks like Froome is on the verge of quitting.


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

the Dawg looks ready to climb off the bike


----------



## ColinJ (2 Sep 2015)

If he decides to continue, perhaps he should give up on GC, take it as easy as he can, lose loads of time and try to grab a couple of stage wins later?


----------



## zimzum42 (2 Sep 2015)

Froomey's still pushing on, 8 minutes down. 

Yayy!

Ya boo sucks to the haters who want to see him quit!


----------



## JMAG (2 Sep 2015)

ColinJ said:


> If he decides to continue, perhaps he should give up on GC, take it as easy as he can, lose loads of time and try to grab a couple of stage wins later?



Or even better, support his team mates and ride for them?


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (2 Sep 2015)

Sergio Paulinho hit by motorbike and out, 17 stitches... They are taking Tinkoff riders out one by one!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Sep 2015)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Sergio Paulinho hit by motorbike and out, 17 stitches... They are taking Tinkoff riders out one by one!


And Oleg Tinkov is thinking of withdrawing the team.


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

Aru attacks


----------



## tug benson (2 Sep 2015)

Dumoulin doing ok


----------



## smutchin (2 Sep 2015)

I ummed and ahhed over which 2nd Astana rider to pick for today's stage in the punditry and ultimately went for Rosa rather than Landa... pah!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Sep 2015)

Froome is reported to look "not good" whilst climbing into team car


----------



## JMAG (2 Sep 2015)

He could barely stand, nevermind walk.


----------



## Mattonsea (2 Sep 2015)

An Astana one ,two. Nope don't believe that performance .


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> An Astana one ,two. Nope don't believe that performance .


To be fair, the only 2 who looked good, were the only 2 of the contenders who hadn't done the tour. The others looking exhausted made the Astana pair look correspondingly better.


----------



## SWSteve (2 Sep 2015)

Just sat down to watch the highlights on Eurosport. I'm feeling that this combined with Sean Kelly being in the cycling podcast I may earn myself an Irish accent before long


----------



## Supersuperleeds (2 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> Froome is reported to look "not good" whilst climbing into team car



On highlights he looked completely fecked.


----------



## Mattonsea (2 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> To be fair, the only 2 who looked good, were the only 2 of the contenders who hadn't done the tour. The others looking exhausted made the Astana pair look correspondingly better.


Yep taken account for there quiet July , it looked to good to be true, a brilliant plan , well executed but not believable.
On a stage that was heralded as the hardest this year , they mocked its toughness . No one in the tour put in a performance like that.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (2 Sep 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> An Astana one ,two. Nope don't believe that performance .


Maybe when Landa is riding for Sky it will be more believable. Boswell looked like he was coping very well.


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2015)

Boswell looked pretty good and I didn't really see a problem in Aru and this Landa who seems a different Landa to the Giro. Rodriguez rode the Tour too and he's doing well but still not too well.


----------



## themosquitoking (2 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


> Boswell looked pretty good and I didn't really see a problem in Aru and this Landa who seems a different Landa to the Giro. Rodriguez rode the Tour too and he's doing well but still not too well.


He did that in the tour too the nobber.


----------



## smutchin (2 Sep 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> On a stage that was heralded as the hardest this year , they mocked its toughness . No one in the tour put in a performance like that.



Did you actually watch the stage or are you just trotting out a prepared line?


----------



## SWSteve (2 Sep 2015)

Today's stage was ridiculous. Everyone looked cooked. It's lucky there's a sprinters day tomorrow...


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2015)

This was a stage that looked exciting in theory but was too tough for anybody to risk going into the red too soon. Counter productive in terms of excitement compared with what has gone before.
So far, it's proving again that it's not possible to do justice to two consecutive tours, so close together. Given that the TdF is the big one, it's making a very good case for either the Giro or the Vuelta to be reduced in size and importance.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (3 Sep 2015)

Froome updates us...


----------



## mjr (3 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Whatever happened to musettes? I thought you gave feed bags to horses.


Neigh, they're nose bags.


----------



## Mattonsea (3 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> Did you actually watch the stage or are you just trotting out a prepared line?


Anyone who believes anything Astana succeeds at is a mug. May be you missed all the riders in the Pro/Conti teams that have been banned this year or the fact they came pretty close to losing there World Tour License . May be you were watching something else.....


----------



## HF2300 (3 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> This was a stage that looked exciting in theory but was too tough for anybody to risk going into the red too soon. Counter productive in terms of excitement compared with what has gone before.



Yes, have to say it lived down to my expectations; really, the first climbs were irrelevant, except that they meant the 'attacking' at the end were a process of elimination rather than real attacks (Landa and Aru excepted), and the bulk of the stage was pretty humdrum. Really it was likely to go that way.

I'm not even sure what it proved, other than who had a previous recent GT in their legs. I'm all for making GT stages tough in various ways (after all, they're the pinnacle of the sport); but I'm not sure about selecting your winner by grinding everyone down rather than by the genuine flair, talent and tactics of the competitors.

As for Astana, given the history and scuttlebutt I think everyone views their performances with a healthy dose of cynicism, but certainly Aru didn't seem to have anything that couldn't be explained by not having done the Tour. I didn't see enough of Landa to tell, and you can't really tell from the highlights, but it seemed he gradually crept away with the help of the break rather than waltzing off into the distance - it didn't seem like an outrageous doping performance.

They might be doped to the eyeballs, they might not, but people constantly pointing the finger at anyone who wins by more than a few seconds gets wearing. I'd imagine the Clinic are now dropping Dumoulin and finding someone else to froth about.



rich p said:


> So far, it's proving again that it's not possible to do justice to two consecutive tours, so close together. Given that the TdF is the big one, it's making a very good case for either the Giro or the Vuelta to be reduced in size and importance.



I think the Giro and Vuelta organisers might have something to say about that; they don't, and won't, want their races to be reduced in status. Perhaps just separating them out further might be an idea? I also wonder how the way riders prepare makes a difference; the modern trend, as with athletics, is to build your preparation towards a particular target, and it's always said that peaking two or three times over a year or cycle is very difficult. That might argue for a reduced Vuelta and Giro, but then you might get an insanely competitive Tour and a Vuelta and Giro that just become less relevant until they fold. Perhaps the races will just have to be scheduled and placed distinctively and GC contenders decide what they're aiming for in a given year.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Sep 2015)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Froome updates us...



Interesting. Hope it was a clash of shoulders rather than another moto incident


----------



## adamangler (3 Sep 2015)

I dont see anything too special with astanas performance to question it really.
Aru has shown this year hes a match for anyone on his day and since quintana, froome,valverde etc were all off the pace it was no surprise to see him finish 2nd.
as for landa, well he was in the break and hung on, he showed in the giro what he could do and whilst he looked off the pace in the vuelta thus far it was foolish to let him go in the break and think he couldnt win it


----------



## sleaver (3 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> ......GC contenders decide what they're aiming for in a given year.


How much say do they have compared to the sponsors though? For example, would Froome be allowed to skip the Tour de France to ride the Giro and Veulta next year considering he is the defending champion?

Given the 'status' of the Tour de France, I would have thought the various sponsors would have something to say if most of the top riders decided to target other grand tours.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> How much say do they have compared to the sponsors though? For example, would Froome be allowed to skip the Tour de France to ride the Giro and Veulta next year considering he is the defending champion?
> 
> Given the 'status' of the Tour de France, I would have thought the various sponsors would have something to say if most of the top riders decided to target other grand tours.


I may have got my years in a twist but isn't that pretty much what Wiggins did?


----------



## sleaver (3 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I may have got my years in a twist but isn't that pretty much what Wiggins did?


Good point. However, wasn't he going to ride but then pulled out with a knee injury when the whole Froome v Wiggins thing going on?


----------



## w00hoo_kent (3 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> Interesting. Hope it was a clash of shoulders rather than another moto incident



I think we'd know if it was a moto incident, I can't imagine they'd keep quiet about it. It's interesting that that early out he didn't have anyone nearby, sounds like he needed protecting if someone nerfed him in to the barrier.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> Good point. However, wasn't he going to ride but then pulled out with a knee injury when the whole Froome v Wiggins thing going on?


Maybe. All I can remember is a very wet and slippery Giro with Wiggins retiring. I seem to remember that he was far from confirmed for the TdF before that - didn't he talk about 2 team leaders at first and then, quite a bit later, that he'd ride as support to Froome? There will be people on here with far better memory than me who could answer this.


----------



## Rustybucket (3 Sep 2015)

Froome out

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fro...a-after-checks-reveal-a-fracture-in-his-foot/


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Sep 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I think we'd know if it was a moto incident, I can't imagine they'd keep quiet about it. It's interesting that that early out he didn't have anyone nearby, sounds like he needed protecting if someone nerfed him in to the barrier.


You're not protected from the side though and this appears to be how he lost it.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2015)

IIRC, there's a UCI plan to change the Giro and Vuelta to 2 week races. My memory may be playing tricks and ASO may have other opinions.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2015)

If you recall Froome nearly got knocked sideways in the Tour, on one of the cobbled stages. he should really be paying more attention as a GT contender with a whole team built around him.


----------



## w00hoo_kent (3 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> IIRC, there's a UCI plan to change the Giro and Vuelta to 2 week races. My memory may be playing tricks and ASO may have other opinions.


It was talked about but I'm not sure it wasn't anything more than idle media speculation.


----------



## uncle_adolph (3 Sep 2015)

Rustybucket said:


> Froome out
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fro...a-after-checks-reveal-a-fracture-in-his-foot/



Makes Mr Tinkoff's tweets about Froome from yesterday seem rather unfortunate.....


----------



## Mattonsea (3 Sep 2015)

120 motorbikes and 90 cars are on the course during the race yesterday, seems like a limit needs to be set.


----------



## Slaav (3 Sep 2015)

uncle_adolph said:


> Makes Mr Tinkoff's tweets about Froome from yesterday seem rather unfortunate.....



What was Tinkoff saying - in summary? Cant log into Twitter from this machine in the office!
Thanks in advance


----------



## John the Monkey (3 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Neigh, they're nose bags.


Yup. They often have problems with people nicking the tastier bits of food, so they secure them with fet-locks. After all, security is the mane concern, and it be-hoofs all responsible horse owners to do so.


----------



## uncle_adolph (3 Sep 2015)

Slaav said:


> What was Tinkoff saying - in summary? Cant log into Twitter from this machine in the office!
> Thanks in advance



Basically along the lines that Froome rode like a girl.....not a "politically correct" comment! And caused a bit of anger....

There was another one, I was on Twitter on my mobile as I was watching the stage live, which basically said that Sky treat him like he should be wearing nappies. I note he must have deleted that one as it's not on his timeline now.


----------



## JMAG (3 Sep 2015)

Well the girl in nappies did a heck of a job finishing 32nd on one of the toughest stages with injuries so severe that he can't walk without crutches.


----------



## JMAG (3 Sep 2015)

Contrast to Nibali who would be complaining like crazy, blaming Peter Sagan (not even on the stage, nevermind nearby) and then getting a lift from a TV helicopter to make some time back.


----------



## JBGooner (3 Sep 2015)

I hope he had won the combativity prize yesterday - broken bone in his foot and all.

He's out now. Shame, I could see him actually winning this.


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2015)

Mattonsea said:


> May be you were watching something else.....



Or maybe I wasn't letting my prejudgment of Team Evil cloud my view of the racing? I've just googled for some numbers to see if they bear any relation to what I think I saw...

According to the internet armchair experts, Aru's estimated average power on the final climb was 5.7w/kg. Impressive but not superhuman.

Average speed for the stage winner was 30.2km/h, which is sloooooow for a GT stage, even one as tough as yesterday.

A couple of riders did stand out as looking a bit fishy to me yesterday. One was LL Sanchez, who seemed to do some very long stints on the front, as well as regularly dropping back to the team car to fetch water bottles. But then he ended up 12 minutes down (even behind Froome) which makes his performance look a bit more realistic. He's still a nobber though.

The other was Valverde, who is going remarkably well considering his season started in January and includes some big spring Classics wins. But then at the tender age of 35, he's just coming into his prime in Vuelta terms. And we all know he's a dirty cheating nobber anyway.


----------



## uncle_adolph (3 Sep 2015)

JBGooner said:


> I hope he had won the combativity prize yesterday - broken bone in his foot and all.
> 
> He's out now. Shame, I could see him actually winning this.



I thought he would have won it too.

He had the one poorish day, from which he recovered, and I thought yesterday with the long grind of several climbs suited him down to the ground. He certainly seemed to be in better shape going into the stage than the likes of Quintana, Valverde and Purito.


----------



## Dogtrousers (3 Sep 2015)

JBGooner said:


> I hope he had won the combativity prize yesterday - broken bone in his foot and all.
> 
> He's out now.


 Did he consider carrying on one legged on a recumbent like Steve Abraham? Quitter


----------



## mjr (3 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> Did he consider carrying on one legged on a recumbent like Steve Abraham? Quitter


He probably would consider it, but UCI ban laid-back trikes, don't they?

So is Froome riding 135km on what we now know was a broken foot madder than Contador's riding a few km on a broken leg last summer?


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2015)

Excellent! Frank Schleck just said a naughty word live on telly.


----------



## SWSteve (3 Sep 2015)

I know it's the whole point of the race, but Spain is beautiful.


----------



## Mattonsea (3 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I know it's the whole point of the race, but Spain is beautiful.


It looks great , luckily going there next year.


----------



## themosquitoking (3 Sep 2015)

I love how Spain looks and think the green green grass of home is a bit over rated really. Grass that green needs a lot of watering see.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2015)

I am going somewhere hot for summer hols next year - no idea where yet, Cycling coverage throws up so many possibilities. And the adverts on Eurosport don't help. But because I am a doddery old git I forget what looks nice and will probably end up in some shitehole like England.


----------



## Mattonsea (3 Sep 2015)

Corsica was tempting after 2013 Grand depart.


----------



## SWSteve (3 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> I am going somewhere hot for summer hols next year - no idea where yet, Cycling coverage throws up so many possibilities. And the adverts on Eurosport don't help. But because I am a doddery old git I forget what looks nice and will probably end up in some shitehole like England.



Maybe forget hot and go to Reine in Norway. Somehow stumbled across it and it looks incredible. Girlfriend and I aim to go one day


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Maybe forget hot and go to Reine in Norway. Somehow stumbled across it and it looks incredible. Girlfriend and I aim to go one day


There will be too many pale people there. You'll think you are in Ireland.


----------



## Dogtrousers (4 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Maybe forget hot and go to Reine in Norway. Somehow stumbled across it and it looks incredible. Girlfriend and I aim to go one day


The Lofotens are beautiful. The weather can be a bit variable.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

User said:


> ... then you might be able to pick which Irish accent you can handle, they're not all the same for example a Dublin accent comes with great responsibility, ..
> think carefully before taking on the Irish accent, the power and adulation can break a weak individual....



Is there a development ladder, novices being restricted to junior accents while only those with considerable experience and gravitas are allowed the most powerful and devastating ones...?


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2015)

Give it a rest you lot - it ain't the tea thread...


...p.s. I'm going to Portugal next week


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> How much say do they have compared to the sponsors though? For example, would Froome be allowed to skip the Tour de France to ride the Giro and Veulta next year considering he is the defending champion?
> 
> Given the 'status' of the Tour de France, I would have thought the various sponsors would have something to say if most of the top riders decided to target other grand tours.



From what's been said in similar discussions previously, here and elsewhere, the top riders have considerable clout in deciding their programme and objectives for the year, but inevitably the team's and sponsors' aims have to be accommodated as well - after all, they pay the wages. Those objectives might depend on markets, headline sponsor nationality, and so on. Domestiques have to pretty much go where they're sent, I think. There will be a whole lot of calculations that come into play.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I think we'd know if it was a moto incident, I can't imagine they'd keep quiet about it. It's interesting that that early out he didn't have anyone nearby, sounds like he needed protecting if someone nerfed him in to the barrier.



Think I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I'd imagine it was an inadvertent nudge from the side or a touch of wheels.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> IIRC, there's a UCI plan to change the Giro and Vuelta to 2 week races. My memory may be playing tricks and ASO may have other opinions.



There was discussion of it, but nothing definite, I think, and I CBA to look it up.



User3094 said:


> There is, I got the rule book on the TdF once and the positioning and roles of each vehicle are very set and defined. Plus bear in mind a very small proportion of that number are with the peleton.
> 
> But yes, it seems it needs better control.



Don't know if it's just me but it seems to me it's the behaviour of the vehicles, and particularly the motos, that's worse rather than the numbers. In Broekman's big crash the other day a yellow moto - I think it was actually medical assistance - tried to push through instead of just parking up behind the crash and at one point was actually nudging riders out of the way with his fairing.

Cookson was interviewed about it by Matt Rendell and was saying the riders felt there was a lot less respect in the peloton than there used to be, riders v. motos and riders v. riders. Unfortunately he came across rather as though he was trying to deflect attention from the moto incidents by deflecting it onto poor rider behaviour - I hope that was unintentional.

There seem to be a lot more motos tangled up in the peloton, cutting in and out between the riders and so on in recent years. Perhaps the rules about moto position in the convoy, distances from riders, pulling over to get out of small gaps rather than cutting through, etc. should be tightened / enforced, or the rules for licencing (& penalising) drivers looked at.



rich p said:


> Give it a rest you lot - it ain't the tea thread...
> ...p.s. I'm going to Portugal next week



Now there's a language to be treated with respect.


----------



## mjr (4 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> ...p.s. I'm going to Portugal next week


Me too. What's it like cycling there? Is there a good thread with tips?

I've stayed in a nice place off grid in inland Catalonia and did some cycling from it: PM me if you want their contact details.

Is the rule about wearing helmets and hi vis when cycling in rural Spain new, not applicable to Catalonia or was it just that everyone I saw ignored it in 2013? Is there an exception for racing or should everyone except Tinkoff Saxo be fined for the hi vis bit?


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> There was discussion of it, but nothing definite, I think, and I CBA to look it up


A quick google brings this up
http://inrng.com/2015/06/world-tour-reforms/
Looks like it's in the long grass.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Me too. What's it like cycling there? Is there a good thread with tips?
> 
> I've stayed in a nice place off grid in inland Catalonia and did some cycling from it: PM me if you want their contact details.
> 
> Is the rule about wearing helmets and hi vis when cycling in rural Spain new, not applicable to Catalonia or was it just that everyone I saw ignored it in 2013? Is there an exception for racing or should everyone except Tinkoff Saxo be fined for the hi vis bit?


I've cycled right through rural Portugal - beautiful. No helmet law AFAIK. I took one just for the Spanish section but didn't use it.
See my sig!
A guy mentioned this site recently in T&E
http://pedalportugal.com/


----------



## JMAG (4 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> From what's been said in similar discussions previously, here and elsewhere, the top riders have considerable clout in deciding their programme and objectives for the year, but inevitably the team's and sponsors' aims have to be accommodated as well - after all, they pay the wages



One of the riders interviewed about safety this week was saying that they have very little say and that the pro riders union was completely ineffective and did little to represent riders interests. He claimed teams, sponsors and organising bodies make all the decisions and riders were mostly afraid to put their foot down lest they get blacklisted and struggle to get on a team.


----------



## Stockie (4 Sep 2015)

Corsica was tempting after 2013 Grand depart.

Been there a couple of times on cruises and it's as beautiful in the flesh as it is on the TV.


----------



## mjr (4 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> One of the riders interviewed about safety this week was saying that they have very little say and that the pro riders union was completely ineffective and did little to represent riders interests. He claimed teams, sponsors and organising bodies make all the decisions and riders were mostly afraid to put their foot down lest they get blacklisted and struggle to get on a team.


Not just "one of the riders" but current Combined Classification leader and former GC leader Tom Dumoulin, IIRC


----------



## StuAff (4 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> One of the riders interviewed about safety this week was saying that they have very little say and that the pro riders union was completely ineffective and did little to represent riders interests. He claimed teams, sponsors and organising bodies make all the decisions and riders were mostly afraid to put their foot down lest they get blacklisted and struggle to get on a team.


David Millar said so on the ITV4 highlights.


----------



## JMAG (4 Sep 2015)

StuAff said:


> David Millar said so on the ITV4 highlights.


That was it.


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> A quick google brings this up
> http://inrng.com/2015/06/world-tour-reforms/
> Looks like it's in the long grass.



I should have remembered it was INRNG. Cheers @rich p 

INRNG article on moto use:

http://inrng.com/2015/09/race-motorbikes-accidents/#more-26345


----------



## HF2300 (4 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> HF2300 said:
> 
> 
> > From what's been said in similar discussions previously, here and elsewhere, the top riders have considerable clout in deciding their programme and objectives for the year, but inevitably the team's and sponsors' aims have to be accommodated as well - after all, they pay the wages.
> ...



You may have taken the quote out of context there!   I was commenting on the riders' clout as far as their annual programme was concerned, with reference to the discussion about downgrading the Giro and Vuelta. Interesting comments on safety though - I missed that interview / Millar's comments.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2015)

Anyway, summer hols for next year...

Dinnae think I'll need to be going to France to follow the Scottish fitba' team.

So I think I'll need to be paying attention to the ads on Eurosport a bit more.


----------



## SWSteve (4 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> Anyway, summer hols for next year...
> 
> Dinnae think I'll need to be going to France to follow the Scottish fitba' team.
> 
> So I think I'll need to be paying attention to the ads on Eurosport a bit more.




Why not go to France anyway, support another one of the home nations


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Why not go to France anyway, support another one of the home nations




Anyway I am trying to remember what the race was a few months ago that looked lovely - Croatia? I'm fairly sure it was, the one where Bole and Paterski won stages. That looked very nice.


----------



## SWSteve (4 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> Anyway I am trying to remember what the race was a few months ago that looked lovely - Croatia? I'm fairly sure it was, the one where Bole and Paterski won stages. That looked very nice.




Croatia looks amazing, it's meant to be a great destination


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Croatia looks amazing, it's meant to be a great destination


I'm away to check on flights, accommodation etc (I'm not really sure what else there is to check but flight and accommodation didnae seem enough and I didn't want to appear as if I knew nothing about going away on holiday)


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2015)

I've not heard to much moaning about the commentators thus far, maybe a few grumbles...and that's about to change.

I like Ned Boulting. I really do. I have been a supporter of him and Imlach. Rendell, Millar, anyone they want to invite along for a chat to be the voices of cycling coverage.

But now I find that when he is given the chance to be the "commentator" he babbles just as much shite as the rest of them! 

Ned, just relax, have a chat. You are great at it.


----------



## JMAG (4 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> You may have taken the quote out of context there!   I was commenting on the riders' clout as far as their annual programme was concerned, with reference to the discussion about downgrading the Giro and Vuelta. Interesting comments on safety though - I missed that interview / Millar's comments.



Although a different context, Millar's comments indicate that the riders have very little clout in general. If they can't influence safety when it's their hide on the line, I can't imagine they get much say in other matters i.e. programme and objectives.


----------



## Buddfox (4 Sep 2015)

Footage of the Sagan crash has emerged:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=57&v=20DG3NcErXU

I actually had to watch it about three times to figure out what happened, but basically a motorbike accelerated and just drove into the back of him. It looks, and sounds, horrendous - and am amazed he wasn't more hurt


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2015)

Buddfox said:


> Footage of the Sagan crash has emerged:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=57&v=20DG3NcErXU
> 
> I actually had to watch it about three times to figure out what happened, but basically a motorbike accelerated and just drove into the back of him. It looks, and sounds, horrendous - and am amazed he wasn't more hurt


I had to look at it a few times as well. It appears that the moto was taking a line and then the cyclists changed from right to left - not much chance for moto really.


----------



## StuAff (4 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> I've not heard to much moaning about the commentators thus far, maybe a few grumbles...and that's about to change.
> 
> I like Ned Boulting. I really do. I have been a supporter of him and Imlach. Rendell, Millar, anyone they want to invite along for a chat to be the voices of cycling coverage.
> 
> ...


Yebbut Ned still spouts less twaddle than P&P though!!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Sep 2015)

StuAff said:


> Yebbut Ned still spouts less twaddle than P&P though!!


True, but he is getting worse. I diagnose commentitis, along with fellow sufferers Simon Brotherton and Carlton Kirby. An alternative view would be that only P&P have the capacity to spout so much.


----------



## BSRU (5 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> I had to look at it a few times as well. It appears that the moto was taking a line and then the cyclists changed from right to left - not much chance for moto really.


From watching it, the group of riders was obviously moving to the left and the motorcyclist was going far too fast plus the motorcyclist should be anticipating the group moving all over the road.
Also the motorcycle rider doesn't bother stopping just rides off.


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

BSRU said:


> From watching it, the group of riders was obviously moving to the left and the motorcyclist was going far too fast plus the motorcyclist should be anticipating the group moving all over the road.
> Also the motorcycle rider doesn't bother stopping just rides off.


The motos normally use the horn to warn riders if they're coming through. Totally moto at fault IMHO.


----------



## Rustybucket (5 Sep 2015)

Boring stage I thought yesterday


----------



## HF2300 (5 Sep 2015)

JMAG said:


> Although a different context, Millar's comments indicate that the riders have very little clout in general. If they can't influence safety when it's their hide on the line, I can't imagine they get much say in other matters i.e. programme and objectives.



Ah, I see what you mean. On the programme and objectives side, I'm going by what's been said by leading riders, DSs and team principals etc. in the past. The difference between rider programmes and safety is that riders and teams have a firm contractual relationship and mutual interests; with safety they're reliant on whatever nebulous influence they have with UCI and race organisers. Not the same situation at all.



Marmion said:


> I've not heard to much moaning about the commentators thus far... and that's about to change.
> 
> I like Ned Boulting. I really do... But now I find that when he is given the chance to be the "commentator" he babbles just as much shite as the rest of them!
> 
> Ned, just relax, have a chat. You are great at it.



He did have a big attack of babble the other day - the sprint Degenkolb didn't win. He calmed down a bit yesterday. I'm a bit worried by the appearance of phrases like 'looking after the interests of...' and even 'false flat' as well! Early days though. Hopefully he'll relax into it and find his own style. Those around him are pretty relaxed and competent, so maybe they'll influence him.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Sep 2015)

It's foggy today. I thought Spain was the land of hot weather, sunshine and getting a full English breakfast on the promenade


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

I'm not sure if anyone is capable of sticking it into Aru now. Assuming Quintana is sick, Dumoulin isn't explosive enough and ValvPiti is knackered.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Sep 2015)

''Because bike are sowe
Me and my bicycowe
This is how we rowe''
That Wiggle ad really annoys me.


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> ''Because bike are sowe
> Me and my bicycowe
> This is how we rowe''
> That Wiggle ad really annoys me.


That other one with a Yank talking earnestly about...
"Why now, because it's time
Why here etc etc "
I still don't know what it's advertising but it irritates me intensely


----------



## Dayvo (5 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> That other one with* a Yank* talking earnestly about...
> "Why now, because it's time
> Why here etc etc "
> I still don't know what it's advertising but it irritates me intensely



Morgan Freeman, I think.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> That other one with a Yank talking earnestly about...
> "Why now, because it's time
> Why here etc etc "
> I still don't know what it's advertising but it irritates me intensely


And that too macho to watch what your eating and too macho to admit it's hot wasabi advert.... (Though that might be an ITV4 ad.)


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> I'm not sure if anyone is capable of sticking it into Aru now. Assuming Quintana is sick, Dumoulin isn't explosive enough and ValvPiti is knackered.


Rodriguez! One last tilt at the windmill. Mind you it's the Vuelta, he's probably got a few more.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> That other one with a Yank talking earnestly about...
> "Why now, because it's time
> Why here etc etc "
> I still don't know what it's advertising but it irritates me intensely



Who is the old man in the Festina adverts


----------



## Dayvo (5 Sep 2015)

What's the verdict on Juan Antonio Flecha and Ashley House? I quite like them, although House has an annoying habit of nodding all the time when he's 'listening' to the answer to his question.

Plus he looks a bit like:


----------



## SWSteve (5 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> That other one with a Yank talking earnestly about...
> "Why now, because it's time
> Why here etc etc "
> I still don't know what it's advertising but it irritates me intensely



I know the ad is for a helmet, but did you notice he is in all Castelli kit.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I know the ad is for a helmet, but did you notice he is in all Castelli kit.


Yes, I never paid any attention to what it was selling. It's the Overtake helmet! Presumably being worn by the camera car driver.....


----------



## Dayvo (5 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Who is the old man in the Festina adverts



It surprised me, too, but believe it or not, it's Richard Virenque.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Sep 2015)

Dayvo said:


> It surprised me, too, but believe it or not, it's Richard Virenque.


 
Blimey. Next they'll have Justin Gaitlin advertising running


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

Dayvo said:


> What's the verdict on Juan Antonio Flecha and Ashley House? I quite like them, although House has an annoying habit of nodding all the time when he's 'listening' to the answer to his question.
> 
> Plus he looks a bit like:
> 
> ...


I've warmed to Ashley and Juanito


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Blimey. Next they'll have Justin Gaitlin advertising running


The irony being that Virenque was busted in the Festina fiasco


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2015)

In other news, I cycled from Reinosa to the base of Alto Campoo and it was a false flat....


----------



## SWSteve (5 Sep 2015)

big fan of Flecha's hat


----------



## uncle_adolph (5 Sep 2015)

Fabio Aru moonlighting on Strictly?


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2015)

I hope today's stage has more aggressive racing than yesterday's. The race needs someone to attack Aru before the last few kms. Maybe Quintana now that he seems to have recovered. I don't think that Rodriguez or Majka have the fire power.


----------



## uncle_adolph (6 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> I hope today's stage has more aggressive racing than yesterday's. The race needs someone to attack Aru before the last few kms. Maybe Quintana now that he seems to have recovered. I don't think that Rodriguez or Majka have the fire power.



It's a bit of a shame that the Vuelta has degenerated from the best of the three Grand Tours (which it was last year) and which it potentially could have been again to a bit of a damp squib. Nibali, Froome et al out, Quintana clearly not 100% and the Spanish as per usual more keen on scoring points off each other than actually trying to win.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Sep 2015)

uncle_adolph said:


> It's a bit of a shame that the Vuelta has degenerated from the best of the three Grand Tours (which it was last year) and which it potentially could have been again to a bit of a damp squib. Nibali, Froome et al out, Quintana clearly not 100% and the Spanish as per usual more keen on scoring points off each other than actually trying to win.


I have to agree that it's become a bit of an anti-climax without the big hitters. Let's hope Quintana is getting back to form.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2015)

That's some pretty astonishing acceleration from Astana there.


----------



## SWSteve (6 Sep 2015)

What's the green/red/white flag?


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> I don't think that Rodriguez or Majka have the fire power


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2015)

That'll be the Ikurriña - the Basque flag.


----------



## SWSteve (6 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> That'll be the Ikurriña - the Basque flag.



Thanks


----------



## SWSteve (6 Sep 2015)

Has that hat been presented at every stage?

And why does Spains entry to Eurovision play at the end of every stage! (I'm embarrassed to have noticed that if I'm honest) 
View: http://youtu.be/9-g92hNNbPQ


----------



## Supersuperleeds (6 Sep 2015)

ITV4 highlights are on early at 18:25 for those that watch them


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Sep 2015)

Supersuperleeds said:


> ITV4 highlights are on early at 18:25 for those that watch them


Thanks for that. I'd have missed half the programme otherwise.


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


>


WTF do I know!


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> WTF do I know!


Or indeed any of us yet we're all still happy to post our ignorance up on the Internet for everyone to see for ever.


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2015)

rich p said:


> WTF do I know!


More than me if the punditry is to be believed.


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Has that hat been presented at every stage?


No, it's special to Asturias.

Anyone else notice that the Basque fans were wearing green rather than orange? Is it for Caja Rural?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Is it for Caja Rural?


Yes


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Sep 2015)

If Dumoulin keeps in touch tomorrow, he could still storm back to the lead in the TT after the rest day... it's a big 'if' though because tomorrow is a beast. And he's unlikely to win the overall anyway with the last couple of stages being tough too.


----------



## zimzum42 (7 Sep 2015)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...cavendish-the-vuelta-has-become-stupid-190182

Interesting POV from Cav, have to agree with him to an extent, the Vuelta is becoming a bit of a mad race, especially at this stage of the season...


----------



## Tin Pot (7 Sep 2015)

zimzum42 said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...cavendish-the-vuelta-has-become-stupid-190182
> 
> Interesting POV from Cav, have to agree with him to an extent, the Vuelta is becoming a bit of a mad race, especially at this stage of the season...



It's not clear from the article as to what is mad about it (I'm watching for the first time).


----------



## zimzum42 (7 Sep 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> It's not clear from the article as to what is mad about it (I'm watching for the first time).


Ok, he's a sprinter moaning about the high number of mountain finishes, so no surprise there.

But I do think he has a point about it being a little too tough and having problems attracting riders who have done the other two tours earlier in the season, plus it's close to the worlds so a lot of riders have one eye on them and don't go or drop out early.

Then again, it's interesting to have a tour that's a bit different from the other two. I guess I'm a bit prejudiced as I am yearning for people to have a proper go at winning all three tours in a season, but the way they are going, that's looking even less possible than it ever was, the way the routes are and the way they are riding these days is increasingly making 2 wins in a season impossible.


----------



## cisamcgu (7 Sep 2015)

I know what you mean about winning two or three GTs, but there are a few weeks/months between them, does it really take that long for a supremely fit athelete to recover ? I would have thought it might be more of a mental thing - but then I get tired riding over canal bridges, so what do I know


----------



## mjr (7 Sep 2015)

zimzum42 said:


> But I do think he has a point about it being a little too tough and having problems attracting riders who have done the other two tours earlier in the season, plus it's close to the worlds so a lot of riders have one eye on them and don't go or drop out early.


I think it's a very good point about the world championships and the Tour of Britain combining our rough roads with its fondness for including at least one very long but not too steep stage (often across East Anglia) and a circuit race seems an attractive way to prepare for them. That's not always meant a great competition in itself, but I guess seeing stars is usually a spectacle.


----------



## sleaver (7 Sep 2015)

Could Rodriguez win?

I know he has said that he is just targeting the podium, but he could go into red today depending on how well the stage suits him. I'm not sure how good a time trailer he is though.


----------



## mjr (7 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> Could Rodriguez win?
> 
> I know he has said that he is just targeting the podium, but he could go into red today depending on how well the stage suits him. I'm not sure how good a time trailer he is though.


He's OK - has been top three in lumpy time trials and been part of good team time trails - but has occasional off days in ITT. How does he compare to Aru? That's the key question.

It's probably correct that everyone seems nervous about Dumoulin. He's a good time trialist who's deeply unpredictable being that high on GC in the third week of a stage race. He could storm the TT or he could be burnt out or come out of the rest day with his body having shut down into recovery. There's not much in his race record to predict it, is there?


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> Could Rodriguez win?



This year looks like being his best chance ever (given the lack of Contador, Nibali and Froome, the questionable form of Quintana and Aru, the ageing legs of Valverde, and no _obviously_ juiced up riders like Horner or Cobo), and possibly his last chance ever. I agree there's definitely a strong chance he'll be in red at the end of today, given that it's another viciously steep finishing climb that should suit him better than Aru.

On the other hand, he must be at his limit already and I suspect there's also a danger he'll crack and lose a shedload of time like he did in 2012. Unless he's found Chris Horner's stash of magic pixie dust. (Do you believe in miracles, hmmm?)



> I'm not sure how good a time trailer he is though.



Not great, but not as bad as Aru.


----------



## HF2300 (7 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


> Rodriguez! One last tilt at the windmill. Mind you it's the Vuelta, he's probably got a few more.



@Crackle strangely prescient there...



rich p said:


> I don't think that Rodriguez or Majka have the fire power.



... while @rich p sticks with Cyclechat tradition.

Great win for Purito though - can he stay with it today? Be nice to get another red before retirement.

Got to say, for all he's losing time the most impressive ride is really Dumoulin's, just because it's a real solo effort.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> @Crackle strangely prescient there...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dumoulin's the loneliest guy in the race. Even when there's someone near him, they just sit on his wheel.


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> @Crackle strangely prescient there...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know how he's doing today, so I stand and fall by this but I picked him from the outset in the punditry. Mind you it wouldn't be the first time he's been on the verge of glory only to blow it magnificently.


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Croatia looks amazing, it's meant to be a great destination



For the last week or so, I've been getting strange hankerings to go to Bulgaria...


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2015)

Good gawd, Frank Schleck is in with the chance of a win. Finally, Trek gets some value from him.


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


> Good gawd, Frank Schleck is in with the chance of a win. Finally, Trek gets some value from him.



If it happens, it will be a more than deserving way for @Berk on a Bike to overtake me in the punditry...



Berk on a Bike said:


> Stage 16 - Still flogging the dead horse that is Rodolfo Torres, plus Bart de Clerq and... Frank Schleck!



Torres as well. Hat.


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2015)

Oh yeah, and another thing...

Me on the 29th August:


smutchin said:


> Is that Richard Virenque on the Festina ad? He seems to have turned into Paul Hollywood.
> (Also, why on earth would Festina still want their name to be associated with him?)



The 'cool' kids at the back of the class finally waking up a week later:


ItsSteveLovell said:


> Who is the old man in the Festina adverts





Dayvo said:


> It surprised me, too, but believe it or not, it's Richard Virenque.





ItsSteveLovell said:


> Blimey. Next they'll have Justin Gaitlin advertising running





rich p said:


> The irony being that Virenque was busted in the Festina fiasco


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Sep 2015)

Amazing stage - that last climb was about as evil as it comes. 

Dumoulin was the most impressive in some ways - he can do this in the TT. And then perhaps he can hold on until the end after all - he's a bit of a Wiggins or even an Indurain.


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2015)

1.51 for Rodriguez over 39km. Surely Dumoulin can take that back but then can he hold it over three tough stages. Turning into a really exciting Vuelta this.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 Sep 2015)

Some stage finish that, everyone almost stopped at one or two points, crazy steep at times. Well done Schleck though. Dumoulin will be semi pleased with the gap before the ITT, though I am thinking hammering it on the mountains may have taken a fair bit out the legs for him.


----------



## HF2300 (7 Sep 2015)

"FRANK SCHLECK - ALIVE?!!"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Sep 2015)

Kris Boekmans reported to have made some improvement and no longer attached to machine to help him breath
http://m.sporza.be/#!/snippet/55edf3070cf2fadb901bcead


----------



## 400bhp (8 Sep 2015)

Why do the spanish refer to Doumulin as "the Dutchman"?


----------



## sleaver (8 Sep 2015)

I think this was touched upon after stage 11, but assuming that the people who plan the route find harder climbs to test the riders, are we at a point where the riders, as human beings, are being pushed to far and therefore making it counter productive?

On the steeper slopes of the last climb yesterday, some of the best riders in the world were almost coming to a stop and I think it was in the Tirreno Adriatico a few years ago, Contador and others had to zig-zag up a climb.

So while Miller was saying that Landa was setting a pace to prevent others attacking, was it more of a case that they couldn't because if they did and couldn't make it stick, they would have lost more time by blowing before the summit?


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## smutchin (8 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> I think this was touched upon after stage 11, but assuming that the people who plan the route find harder climbs to test the riders, are we at a point where the riders, as human beings, are being pushed to far and therefore making it counter productive?



Oh yes.

I thought some of the reactions to stage 11 were interesting - a few people here complained that the racing was dull. For me, this is a good sign that the racing generally is becoming more 'human'. Hopefully this might help the organisers realise that making the race more difficult isn't necessarily the best way to make it more interesting to watch.


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## 400bhp (8 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> I think this was touched upon after stage 11, but assuming that the people who plan the route find harder climbs to test the riders, are we at a point where the riders, as human beings, are being pushed to far and therefore making it counter productive?
> 
> On the steeper slopes of the last climb yesterday, some of the best riders in the world were almost coming to a stop and I think it was in the Tirreno Adriatico a few years ago, Contador and others had to zig-zag up a climb.
> 
> So while Miller was saying that Landa was setting a pace to prevent others attacking, was it more of a case that they couldn't because if they did and couldn't make it stick, they would have lost more time by blowing before the summit?


Well I'd look at it in respect of a riders threshold effort and how long and how much they can go into the red. 
The longer (and steeper) the climb the more likely they will be riding longer at threshold. This has to be the case as someone would attack if not.
So yes in a way you're right. A sensible rider won't go into the red too early.


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## 400bhp (8 Sep 2015)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Well done Schleck though.



No. Just no.

Doping ass


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## sleaver (8 Sep 2015)

After today I am now off work for the rest of the week.

Good planning you may say, but I've taken the time off to finish my Masters dissertation  May just have to have the TV on in the background in the afternoons


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## HF2300 (8 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> I think this was touched upon after stage 11, but assuming that the people who plan the route find harder climbs to test the riders, are we at a point where the riders, as human beings, are being pushed to far and therefore making it counter productive?
> 
> On the steeper slopes of the last climb yesterday, some of the best riders in the world were almost coming to a stop and I think it was in the Tirreno Adriatico a few years ago, Contador and others had to zig-zag up a climb.
> 
> So while Miller was saying that Landa was setting a pace to prevent others attacking, was it more of a case that they couldn't because if they did and couldn't make it stick, they would have lost more time by blowing before the summit?



Think I'm with @smutchin - at least it shows the racing is (mainly) human.

It seemed what happened on stage 11, and to an extent yesterday, was everyone went 'stuff this - let's save it for the last climb', negating the value of multiple climbs from a spectator point of view.

To your Tirreno-Adriatico point, we're frequently seeing zig-zagging or at least trying to lessen the worst parts of climbs in races, rather than just waltzing up 1 in 5 hills like they're not there - again, shows the racing's a bit more on this planet. Even Schleck nearly came to a standstill at a couple of points.

I think your last point was the one Millar was making - if Landa puts everyone on the edge, they haven't got anything extra to be able to get past without going into the red, and that means they risk blowing up early or not being able to do anything later in the climb.


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Sep 2015)

400bhp said:


> Why do the spanish refer to Doumulin as "the Dutchman"?


Maybe 'cos he is Dutch.


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## rich p (8 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> Oh yes.
> 
> I thought some of the reactions to stage 11 were interesting - a few people here complained that the racing was dull. For me, this is a good sign that the racing generally is becoming more 'human'. Hopefully this might help the organisers realise that making the race more difficult isn't necessarily the best way to make it more interesting to watch.



Point taken Smutch.
In the TdF the attacking would be more aggressive from the GC though, I think. This race is being raced by tired men on a course that's mean.


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## Tin Pot (8 Sep 2015)

Just saw the catch up - crikey that looked painful, my thighs were crying in sympathy. 27%....30%..?!


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Sep 2015)

My prediction for today: Dumoulin wins the stage and overtakes Aru and Rodruguez, but Majka does enough to take the overall lead. This doesn't settle the final placings though and there will attacks galore in the last few days...


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## User169 (9 Sep 2015)

Jumbo-Lotto have said they'll help Dumoulin if he can take red today.


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## smutchin (9 Sep 2015)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Majka does enough to take the overall lead.



Yes, a distinct possibility that seems to have been largely overlooked in all the talk of Dumoulin and Aru. Can't see him winning the stage but he's certainly good enough to be a real threat in the GC.


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## zimzum42 (9 Sep 2015)

Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

On UK Eurosport, who is the posh young lad? And why does the other bloke have such a weird forced smile permanently etched to his face? It's bizarre...


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## Crackle (9 Sep 2015)

Bodnar: he's the Polish ITT champion apparently. Another one I had to look up. Wasn't even on my radar for this one.


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## sleaver (9 Sep 2015)

Have the Movistar riders got what looks like plastic pouches on the back of their skin suits to put their race number in? If so, talk about marginal gains when compared to a pinned on number.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2015)

It looks like Dumoulin has taken 44 seconds out of Aru's lead after the 1st time split!

And 1'44'' at the 2nd time split....


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## Dayvo (9 Sep 2015)

zimzum42 said:


> Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.
> 
> On UK Eurosport, who is the posh young lad? And why does the other bloke have such a weird forced smile permanently etched to his face? It's bizarre...



Ashley House (the posh geezer) and Juan Antonio Flecha.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Sep 2015)

Oh, well - my prediction is out of the window: Majka is collapsing. Dumoulin is supreme.


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## smutchin (9 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


> Bodnar: he's the Polish ITT champion apparently. Another one I had to look up. Wasn't even on my radar for this one.



He was on mine - I trawled the stats on PCS before making my predictions this morning and did consider him as a possibility but went for Oliveira instead. Coppel was another on the shortlist and he's done quite well today too. 

On the other hand, so was Peter Velits and he might as well have stayed in bed.


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## Crackle (9 Sep 2015)

Looks like another glorious, if only, for Rodriguez and Aru still definitely in with a chance. I don't mind if either of them win really.


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## zimzum42 (9 Sep 2015)

Dayvo said:


> Ashley House (the posh geezer) and Juan Antonio Flecha.
> 
> View attachment 103208


Dammit, I knew it was JAF, guess I get thrown by the bits where he's smiling like an idiot, I knew it was him doing the recce rides!


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## uncle_adolph (9 Sep 2015)

zimzum42 said:


> Dammit, I knew it was JAF, guess I get thrown by the bits where he's smiling like an idiot, I knew it was him doing the recce rides!



Is it only me who can't understand a single word JAF says? I might understand him more if he spoke in Spanish!


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## rich p (9 Sep 2015)

Blimey, Dumoulin was immense!
J Rod blows another last chance for a GT win. Aru could still take this on time bonuses alone.
Mikel Landa won't win a GT anytime soon either, with his poor time trialling. Assuming he's actually trying, I suppose. Not much point in him busting a gut in this now.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Sep 2015)

This sets things up nicely. Aru has to attack, but he doesn't have to go long, he only has to snipe, and Dumoulin and team will have to watch him like a hawk. I wouldn't count Purito out either.


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## Legs (10 Sep 2015)

Shaping up very nicely indeed. Three (possibly four) exciting evenings' entertainment ahead...


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## rich p (10 Sep 2015)

Aru is having a real go to try and drop TD


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## deptfordmarmoset (10 Sep 2015)

And TD matches him easily so far. Nico Roche goes up the road.


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## rich p (10 Sep 2015)

Hope these two can stay away. Not sure who'd win a sprint tho


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## rich p (10 Sep 2015)

Nico obvs!


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Sep 2015)

I was going to pick Roche for the pundits picks, good job I didn't otherwise he wouldn't have won.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Sep 2015)

Dumoulin is looking really good for the overall though, he did exactly what he had to do, no panic.


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## Berk on a Bike (10 Sep 2015)

Good news that Kris Boeckmans is out of his induced coma.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/kris-boeckmans-out-of-medically-induced-coma_384475


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## themosquitoking (11 Sep 2015)

Just caught up with todays highlights. That was bloody good that was.


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## HF2300 (11 Sep 2015)

Two immense performances by Dumoulin - can he keep it up?

Not sure if it's by design or luck, but this has worked out to be a very entertaining Vuelta.


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## Berk on a Bike (11 Sep 2015)

If there are no changes in time gaps it will be the narrowest margin for a grand tour win. Previous record is 6 seconds at the '84 Vuelta.


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## HF2300 (11 Sep 2015)

The way things are going it might well change, but further in Dumoulin's favour. Interesting what he said about Aru having no more punch after the first couple of attacks yesterday. I guess the crunch point will be tomorrow rather than today, though I wonder whether Dumoulin will try to pip Aru at today's finish?


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2015)

Great finish by Dumoulin! That was fun.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Sep 2015)

Ooh, just watched the highlights and it looks like Aru got a hand-sling from an Astana team mate in the final race to the line. I wonder what the commissaires will do about that....


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## 400bhp (11 Sep 2015)

I'm starting to think that, in the grand scheme of things, Aru just isn't that good.


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## Rustybucket (11 Sep 2015)

Aru is a nobber!


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Sep 2015)

Not wishing to contradict either of the last two posts in any way, Aru could win this tomorrow. I hope Dumoulin wakes up super strong tomorrow though.


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## Crackle (11 Sep 2015)

Personally I'd love to see Rodriguez risk everything and win or lose big time. Dumoulin or Aru are both dull but I favour Dumoulin slightly more as he is playing to his strengths whereas Aru is a bit of a bottler.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Ooh, just watched the highlights and it looks like Aru got a hand-sling from an Astana team mate in the final race to the line. I wonder what the commissaires will do about that....


Naive question: Is that bad? I'm sure I've seen it in road racing before. 

ISTR Kwiat giving Cav a hand sling so he could jump to a break in crosswinds in the TdF a couple of years back.


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## Berk on a Bike (11 Sep 2015)

The race jury are going to review the tv footage tomorrow. Aru and Sanchez could both receive time penalties.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> Naive question: Is that bad? I'm sure I've seen it in road racing before.
> 
> ISTR Kwiat giving Cav a hand sling so he could jump to a break in crosswinds in the TdF a couple of years back.


Banned, I'm pretty sure. Tolerated, perhaps, though I haven't seen it done. But in a red jersey fight it could be something the commissaires feel they have to rule on.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Banned, I'm pretty sure. Tolerated, perhaps, though I haven't seen it done. But in a red jersey fight it could be something the commissaires feel they have to rule on.


You're quite right. Punishment for "flying relay" in UCI Regulations part 12 Discipline and Procedures



UCI said:


> _9.1.2 Stage Race 200 et 10“ per offence. For offence in last km
> of stage: 200 + 30“and relegation to the last place
> in his group_



You live and learn.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Sep 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> You're quite right. Punishment for "flying relay" in UCI Regulations part 12 Discipline and Procedures
> 
> 
> 
> You live and learn.


Cojones test time for the commissaires.....


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## Dogtrousers (11 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Cojones test time for the commissaires.....


From a theatrical point of view, it would rather spoil the denouement of the race if they slapped Aru with a 30" penalty.


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## Jacqueslemac (11 Sep 2015)

I switched from Eurosport's coverage to that of ITV4 a few days ago. I have to say I've been watching cycle racing since the great Hinault/Lemond Tour battle and I've learned more about tactics in half-a-dozen commentaries from David Millar than I've learned in the previous 30 years. His analysis of why it was Valverde's actions that enabled Dumoulin to take a few seconds was brilliant.


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## Rustybucket (12 Sep 2015)

Itv4 wins hands down for me! Any chance Nairo can blow everyone away today? Probably not - but I hope so.....


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## HF2300 (12 Sep 2015)

Great finish, great use of an opportunity by Dumoulin.



Dogtrousers said:


> From a theatrical point of view, it would rather spoil the denouement of the race if they slapped Aru with a 30" penalty.



Or it might make things even more competitive as others see an opening? It'll make Purito's, and possibly Majka's and even Quintana's gaps to 2nd / Podium look more bridgeable...


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## Archie (12 Sep 2015)

Hello! Just for a laugh I'll go breakaway for stage 20. 

Kiryenka, Monfort, Brambilla.

Edit: Oops, in the punditry thread of course.


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## Strathlubnaig (12 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Cojones test time for the commissaires.....


No penalty due to lack of evidence it appears


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Sep 2015)

Strathlubnaig said:


> No penalty due to lack of evidence it appears


!


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## Rustybucket (12 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> !



Apart from the television footage!? God forbid it would ruin the climax of the race. Aru = cheating nobber


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## sleaver (12 Sep 2015)

Strathlubnaig said:


> No penalty due to lack of evidence it appears


I don't really want to stir up a hornets nest, but isn't there more evidence than the Nibali incident in that there was no clear TV footage of Nibali holding onto the car but there is of Aru getting a slingshot?

So while Nibali's incident is putting 2 and 2 together, Aru's is as clear as day.


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## JMAG (12 Sep 2015)

Both are cheating nobbers. I would rather see an honest race with fewer "star" riders. Similarly, I would rather watch an honest football match without divers and cheats even if means fewer players on the pitch.

The only way to stop people cheating is to come down hard in them so they might think twice about doing it next time.


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## tug benson (12 Sep 2015)

Dumoulin in trouble, Astana have a couple of men up the road and Aru is with Landa 15 seconds infront of Dumoulin....


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## tug benson (12 Sep 2015)

now Astana 3 men infront of Aru...Aru will win the GC now


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## beastie (12 Sep 2015)

Poor tactics from giant not to have a man up the road.


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## Flying_Monkey (12 Sep 2015)

Poor Dumoulin. He's not even going to be on the podium. But that was a really great team ride by Astana to destroy him.


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## sleaver (12 Sep 2015)

beastie said:


> Poor tactics from giant not to have a man up the road.


To be fair, did they have any that could get up the road and even if they did, how much would they really have been able to help him?


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## Bobby Mhor (12 Sep 2015)

Rustybucket said:


> Apart from the television footage!? *God forbid it would ruin the climax of the race*. Aru = cheating nobber


It had to happen...


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Sep 2015)

sleaver said:


> To be fair, did they have any that could get up the road and even if they did, how much would they really have been able to help him?


I didn't think they had anyone who could get up the road either.


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## Supersuperleeds (12 Sep 2015)

Itv have just shown the Aru "sling." Astana may be the villains everyone loves to hate but I don't think they cheated there.


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## sleaver (12 Sep 2015)

Although Dumoulin is full of disappointment at the moment, taking into account what he has done over the past three weeks with a team that was not built to support him, hopefully he can see something to be proud of when (if ever) that disappointment wears off.


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## Rustybucket (12 Sep 2015)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Itv have just shown the Aru "sling." Astana may be the villains everyone loves to hate but I don't think they cheated there.



No actually looked like just a pat on the back! Still a nobber thou. Fair play to him for winning!

Poor Dumoulin he looked heartbroken in the interview, bloody good race from him - he seems a nice guy too!


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## beastie (12 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I didn't think they had anyone who could get up the road either.


When the initial break is the size of today's then of course they should have tried it at least. As to if it would have done any good...I dunno. A few Kms of hard towing on the flat would have maybe closed the gap and got Tom to the final climb with Aru. 

Astana played it perfectly today.


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## mjr (12 Sep 2015)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Itv have just shown the Aru "sling." Astana may be the villains everyone loves to hate but I don't think they cheated there.


No sling but it looked like an attempt to push that failed. Aru saved by a teammate not being very good at cheating?


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## smutchin (13 Sep 2015)

It's a moot point now anyway - a 30 second penalty for Aru wouldn't make any difference to GC.


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## mjr (13 Sep 2015)

smutchin said:


> It's a moot point now anyway - a 30 second penalty for Aru wouldn't make any difference to GC.


Not now but would Astana have tried the same tactics?


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## StuAff (13 Sep 2015)

Jacqueslemac said:


> I switched from Eurosport's coverage to that of ITV4 a few days ago. I have to say I've been watching cycle racing since the great Hinault/Lemond Tour battle and I've learned more about tactics in half-a-dozen commentaries from David Millar than I've learned in the previous 30 years. His analysis of why it was Valverde's actions that enabled Dumoulin to take a few seconds was brilliant.


The Vuelta coverage, and the Beeb's excellent job on RideLondon, both show just how much better commentary can be without the deadly duo, not that I'm expecting them to get silenced any time soon (if only...). People who've been racing _this century _(or paying proper attention to it) actually do a better job, TV executives... Millar's been excellent as both commentator and analyst.


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## Berk on a Bike (13 Sep 2015)

The Guardian website reports a TT bike belonging to Orica Greenedge was stolen and turned up in a secondhand shop on sale for 120 Euros (actual value 12,000 Euros).

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/13/vuelta-bike-secondhand-sale-police-recover


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Sep 2015)

"Wow, that was a crucial moment, and thank goodness we have seen it..." Err, no, Carlton we didn't, we were watching an advert. We saw a slow motion replay with you being unable to identify the riders properly.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Sep 2015)

I'm not even sure Carlton knows any languages and when he does his "translation" bits he just makes stuff up - so when Vino says "We are all doping, haha, you suckers" Carlton translates it as "yes, we've had a lovely time - did you see those flowers by the roadside yesterday?"


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## roadrash (13 Sep 2015)

you mean .... did you see those flowers by the roadside yesterday near the _salt evaporation_ lakes, the mans obssessed with them,,


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## Hont (14 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Aru saved by a teammate not being very good at cheating?


That'll end any chance of a contract extension with Astana - not being very good at cheating.


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