# TFL HGV/Cyclist Vid



## Origamist (16 Jul 2009)

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11687.aspx?lid=switcher#beware


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## summerdays (16 Jul 2009)

Like that video - especially some of the moving blind spot diagrams (as opposed to the stationary ones you often see).


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## Davidc (16 Jul 2009)

Very good. The advice on the page looks good too.

How can the message(s) be got out to a wide audience?


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## Origamist (17 Jul 2009)

This is the best video I have seen. The dialogue format using cyclists and LGV drivers worked pretty well (a continuation of the dual approach used in TFL’s “Ignorant Cyclists, Ignorant Lorry Drivers” booklet - I have a pdf, if anyone wants a copy) and is only a bit forced and trite in places.

The graphics dealing swept paths and blind spots (large swathes of road space) were good, but they could have been better. I particularly liked the comparison between artics and rigids and the large inviting gap on the inside.

The advice is generally good throughout – not hectoring, but conversational and clear. That said, I’d have preferred them not to have mentioned this and this: 

"It's no one else's responsibility ultimately, to make sure that you're safe, it's your responsibility and I felt that very keenly."

“*If the lights have only just turned red I can feel confident of pulling in front of this LGV *but I will double check that he's seen me and I've made my presence felt.”

Here they could have mentioned overtaking and not undertaking (which is implied), or the need to ensure the ASL is clear before you attempt to reach the front of the queue. They also mention taking a “dominant” position in the ASL reservoir - they could have described what they meant here (i e a good 3-4 feet from the road edge). The guidance about making yourself seen to the driver is important and well made.

Understandably, the scenes are not shot in heavy commuting traffic (where’s the ASL encroachment?) and there’s no sign of LGVs cutting corners – the manoeuvres are all text book stuff, but it still captures the problems that cyclists and LGV drivers face. IMO, the nub of the problem is here though: 

“Some of the streets within the city are not going to be built for LGV's, so it can be quite a challenge sometimes.”

I’d have liked to have seen them examine the “follow my leader” phenomenon whereby cyclists seemingly cede responsibility to the cyclist ahead at junctions and I’d have liked to have heard some warnings about using feeder lanes in these situations (don’t suspend your judgement because of some paint on the road). No mention of railings in the 5min vid 

Whilst it is aimed at cyclist behaviour and best practice (no mention of left hooks, responsibility of the freight operators etc) it does promote mutual understanding and hopefully it will get thousands of hits... 

I understand the longer version is aimed more at LGV drivers...

I’ll shut up now as I’m boring myself.


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## tdr1nka (17 Jul 2009)

How come the website says HGV and the vid says LGV?

It's sound advice but needs greater publicity.


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## Origamist (17 Jul 2009)

Are you accusing TFL of a lack of consistency...!

They should use one or the other, or make it clear that both abbreviations refer to the same vehicle on the web page.

I still use HGV as LGV means "Light Goods Vehicle" to me. I'm trying to move with the times, hence my post above.

It did make BBC London news last night. 

If every cyclist sent the link to every cyclist they knew - we might start to get somewhere...


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## tdr1nka (17 Jul 2009)

I have very mixed feelings about TfL which I shall leave at the door.

Why it is not possible to simply say 'NEVER UNDERTAKE LONG VEHICLES, EVER.'
It makes the point to new cyclists.

I'd like to see a basic 'Cycle Craft' style 'Welcome to cycling in London' given away with every new bike sold to commuters.


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## Origamist (17 Jul 2009)

tdr1nka said:


> I have very mixed feelings about TfL which I shall leave at the door.
> 
> Why it is not possible to simply say 'NEVER UNDERTAKE LONG VEHICLES, EVER.'
> It makes the point to new cyclists.
> ...



If you're in a bus lane you are likely to be undertaking HGVs (I mean LGVs) so I don't think you can be be quite that absolutist. However, at junctions it is certainly the safest advice. 

A 30 or so page condensed Cyclecraft guide would be a great thing to give away at the point of sale.


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## LOGAN 5 (20 Jul 2009)

At least it's a start.

I was in front of an LGV a few years back at lights and turned round actually to check my bag on the rack but the lorry driver obviously thought I was looking at him in a way he didn't like so when the lights changed he cut me up really badly whilst squeezing past me at a pinch point. Now when I check my bags/panniers etc I make it obvious that I'm not glaring at the driver behind. Can't win. 

In some areas/situations eyeing somebody in a way that they deem "disrespectul/inappropriate/who you staring at" can cause a confrontational situation, it has to be carefully done, maybe by a polite hand acknowledgement.


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## Origamist (20 Jul 2009)

LOGAN 5 said:


> At least it's a start.
> 
> I was in front of an LGV a few years back at lights and turned round actually to check my bag on the rack but the lorry driver obviously thought I was looking at him in a way he didn't like so when the lights changed he cut me up really badly whilst squeezing past me at a pinch point. Now when I check my bags/panniers etc I make it obvious that I'm not glaring at the driver behind. Can't win.
> 
> In some areas/situations eyeing somebody in a way that they deem "disrespectul/inappropriate/who you staring at" can cause a confrontational situation, it has to be carefully done, maybe by a polite hand acknowledgement.



I find a wave of acknowledgement or a thumbs up is the best thing to do in these situations.


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## Origamist (21 Jul 2009)

A link to the video was sent to thousands of registered TFL users earlier today:




Dear 

Transport for London has produced a new video to help cyclists and lorry drivers navigate London's busy roads - and each other - safely. 

To see the video, please click here

More than half of cyclist deaths in London are caused by accidents with goods vehicles. Drivers can struggle to see you, especially if they're turning left and you're going straight ahead. 

As a cyclist you can minimise your risk by making sure you are alert when passing or being passed by a goods vehicle. 

If you have any thoughts or suggestions on how to improve cycling safety in London, please contact us by replying to this email. 


Yours sincerely,






Kulveer Ranger 
Mayor of London's Transport Director 









I've emailed them asking when the longer version (aimed more at LGV drivers) will be available as too much emphasis is placed on cyclists in the shorter vid.


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## joolsybools (21 Jul 2009)

I was quite impressed with the video, it's pretty balanced for both sides although I agree with other posters that the message 'never ever undertake a lorry' is sound advice 

Has anyone from the right that's enough (commuting) thread seen it?


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## Origamist (21 Jul 2009)

joolsybools said:


> I was quite impressed with the video, it's pretty balanced for both sides although I agree with other posters that the message 'never ever undertake a lorry' is sound advice
> 
> Has anyone from the right that's enough (commuting) thread seen it?



Sound advice to LGV drivers would be to not overtake cyclists on the approach to left turns and then cut across them -that is not mentioned in the film.

The video was posted in the "Time for Action" thread.


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## Origamist (22 Jul 2009)

Freewheeler raises some good points here about the video:

http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-tfl-lorry-campaign.html

However, as there is "supposed" to be a second, longer video aimed at the haulage/freight industry, I'll hold my fire.


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## summerdays (22 Jul 2009)

My boss told me about the video... and I said I had seen it already - they were suprised and replied ... "its new only just out so you won't have". So thanks I managed to be ahead of the boss


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## Origamist (20 Aug 2009)

Origamist said:


> Freewheeler raises some good points here about the video:
> 
> http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-tfl-lorry-campaign.html
> 
> However, as there is "supposed" to be a second, longer video aimed at the haulage/freight industry, I'll hold my fire.



There is indeed an extended DVD version, but it is seemingly limited to the following:

"Road Safety Officers, and Freight operators who are part of the Freight Operators Recognition Scheme".


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## nilling (20 Aug 2009)

Never realised just how big the blind-spots are on a LGV and how they differ on an artic.


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## albal (5 Oct 2009)

sorry for being about 3 yrs behind with this etc.. i dont use lappy when driving unlike the population of poles/czechs/hungaro's... you get the picture.
LGV = large goods vehicle. HGV = heavy goods vehicle
I've no idea what the difference is either.I only drive them.
Very good TFL video, shows BOTH parties should LOOK for eachother.


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## Origamist (22 Oct 2009)

Mayor's QT:

*TfL short video for HGV drivers and cyclists*

*Question No: 2816 / 2009*

John Biggs

How successful has TfL been in disseminating this educational video to companies that operate HGVs? Would you consider supporting an initiative that made the showing of this short video to all HGV drivers in London obligatory?

*Answer from the Mayor:*

I do not have the powers to make the showing of the video to HGV drivers obligatory.
The video is however a fundamental educational tool and it is playing a key role. Specifically designed to raise awareness of the dangers both HGV drivers and cyclists face, it was launched on-line on 15 July.
There have already been 28,000 visitors to the relevant Cycling safety page (_http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11687.aspx_).
Also, TfL’s Freight Operator Recogniton Scheme (FORS) programme itself is key to educating HGV drivers and operators of the importance of safety as it provides members with practical ways to promote road safety and reduce HGV & cyclist collision, amongst other initiatives.

http://thebikeshow.net/cycling-questions-and-answers-from-the-mayor-of-london-oct-09/


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