# Do cycling shoes work?



## rugbyluke (10 Feb 2011)

Heard people fall over all the time and heard they are pants. Please enlighten me


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## HLaB (10 Feb 2011)

rugbyluke said:


> Heard people fall over all the time and heard they are pants. Please enlighten me



Somebody is telling some porkies there 

If cycle shoes are worn together with clipless pedals: a bit of a mistanoma as you are actually clipped in and occaisionally at low speed folk forget to unclip and have a 'clipless' moment but the benefits of clipless far outweigh this negative and most folk once they have tried them would not go back to flat pedals. If you do a search of the forum you'll find dozens of threads


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## Paul_L (11 Feb 2011)

yes "clipless" moments tend to happen maybe once a year at low speeds or finding you have to stop and un-clip suddenly (and then failing!). A bit embarrasing, but quite amusing at the same time.

I would never consider going back to toe straps.


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## Fran143 (11 Feb 2011)

Paul_L said:


> yes "clipless" moments tend to happen maybe once a year at low speeds or finding you have to stop and un-clip suddenly (and then failing!). A bit embarrasing, but quite amusing at the same time.
> 
> I would never consider going back to toe straps.




+1.


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## rugbyluke (11 Feb 2011)

But how do they benefit? I'm not considerd about me falling over just my bike


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## gbb (11 Feb 2011)

Hi Luke..
The benefits ?, how often do your feet slip on normal pedals, especially in the wet. Perhaps not often, but it wont happen with clipless pedals and proper shoes, you're at one with the bike so's to speak.
Climbing when out of the saddle, again, you're not going to slip or move about on the pedals, you're fixed in the optimum position.
It is a scary thing to get used to, just about everyone falls or nearly does at first, but once you get mentally used to anticipating the need to unclip, it becomes second nature. Ive been clipless for 6 years maybe, fallen once at first, never again though.
I found as a beginner to them, when approaching potential situations where i might have to unclip, i'd just click one foot out, but leave the foot on the pedal...you can still pedal (gently) as you're perhaps approaching a junction or T/Ls. For me it wasnt the unclipping that was the problem, it was not anticipating the need to unclip soon enough, then trying to do it at the last second.

As most say, once youve got them and got used to them, you'll never go back.


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## ThePainInSpain (11 Feb 2011)

I have only recently changed to clipless, and find the whole experience much better, the feet don't slip, you're in the best foot position all the time and I somehow find pedaling easier than before.

Not had an actual 'clipless moment' as such.........yet.

Anticipation is the key, and whilst there is a disproportionate amount of slaging off of car drivers on this forum. It is the fact that I have been a driver for a hell of a lot longer than I have been a cyclist, that aids in good anticipation.

I almost had a CM last Tuesday, I was riding a new route and came to a small ford, only about 2mtrs wide, across a stream. The base of the ford was stones covered in algae. Wrong gear, wrong line, wrong speed and bad anticipation. Bike slid from under me, how I unclipped and kept my feet out of the water and never fell off, I will never know, but hey I did.


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## fossyant (11 Feb 2011)

Standard shoes/boots/trainers are pants.

Road shoes are by far the best for cycling, closely followed by MTB/Touring shoes - the latter allow you to walk in them.

Benefits, much better for power delivery, easier to pedal properly, your feet don't come off when sprinting (how people sprint without them I don't know), make climbing easier.

The only downside is you sometimes forget to unclip and topple over - big deal, comedy moment, get over it. Laugh at yourself. Normal shoes flex, and that puts pressure on the arch and outer area of your foot, exactly where it shouldn't be.

Proper cycling shoes should be comfortable for an all day ride.

If you want an all round use shoe, then opt for MTB/Touring with SPD cleats/shoes/pedals. I use LOOK road system on two road bikes - tricky to walk in, but the SPD system on my mountain bike (for obvious reasons) and SPD on my fixed gear road bike - so I can walk into the office with them.


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## rugbyluke (11 Feb 2011)

That great thanks guys I'll look into buying some


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## rugbyluke (11 Feb 2011)

How do you unclip yourself? Sorry for the 100 questions I have just found my new love for cycling


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## Banjo (11 Feb 2011)

Usually by twisting your heel outwards away from the bike releases the cleat from the pedal.There are some types that will release by pulling in any direction ,I havent used them so cant comment.

I had several falls initially getting used to them but never got a scratch on the bike or any serious damage to myself.

There are several different types but they all fall into 2 basic camps either road shoes or mtb shoes. A lot of people use mtb shoes even on road bikes because they are easier to walk in if you pop into a shop or whatever.Road shoes are more streamlined and lighter but usually the cleat is proud of the sole of the shoe and the sole itself is hard and smooth with no grip making walking awkward . 

The purpose of them as well as stopping you slipping is to allow you to improve your pedalling tecnique in that you can pull up as well as push down allowing you to accellerate faster and transmit more power on hills.


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## Davidc (11 Feb 2011)

Tried so called clipless (SPD type) - hated them, and after about 500 miles decided to go back to real toe clips. I got more on ebay for the SPD pedals and shoes than I'd paid for them so not complaining.

With real clips and sraps proper cycling shoes are useful, they need the hard section under the sole. Especially the case if riding for more than half an hour or so.

I'm still amazed that the best ones I've had in years came from Lidl


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

Alternatively, there are such things as "toe cups" that will also stop your feet slipping, whilst wearing normal shoes. You will also never experience a "clipless moment". They are not very well promoted because they don't make shops much money.

Make sure your pedals have holes you can screw them to.

Zefal MT45, £6 a pair:


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## Rob3rt (11 Feb 2011)

Those toe cups dont let you pull up on the pedal but they are ok for pootling around if you have some nice strong shoes, in my personal experience with my shoes they hurt my toes and added very little to the normal flat pedal experience.

I think clipless is the way to go in most cases, but if I wasnt going clipless, I would recommend Re-strap pedal straps. They work very well, arent very expensive and the customer service is beyond excellent. I had a small issue with the stitching on one of mine (the velcro parted from the strap at on point), they didnt just give me a single replacement strap, they gave me a whole new pair and a lock holster for holding a d-lock on your belt while you ride as an apology for the fault.


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> Alternatively, there are such things as "toe cups" that will also stop your feet slipping, whilst wearing normal shoes. You will also never experience a "clipless moment". They are not very well promoted because they don't make shops much money.
> 
> Make sure your pedals have holes you can screw them to.
> 
> Zefal MT45, £6 a pair:


I'd like to see those deal with 15w on the upstroke alone.... that 12N force *back & upwards* at 70 rpm


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## HLaB (11 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> Alternatively, there are such things as "toe cups" that will also stop your feet slipping, whilst wearing normal shoes. You will also never experience a "clipless moment". They are not very well promoted because they don't make shops much money.
> 
> Make sure your pedals have holes you can screw them to.
> 
> Zefal MT45, £6 a pair:


I use to have a similar pair of 'urban toe clips on my velocity there not nearly as efficient or secure as clipless but they are good for going about town. I had straps before on another bike and found them too restrictive if I wore a different pair of shoes.


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## MacB (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> I'd like to see those deal with 85-90w on the upstroke alone.... that 2.1N force *back & upwards* at 70 rpm



Wow, somebody not had a compliment about his incredible power today then?

On the OP and the responses:-

clipless moments/falling over - never has so much total crud been talked about something, all this hilarious, not a problem, laugh it off - it's purely personal anecdote at best - question a bit more closely and some might even admit that yes they were hurt but not badly - now go and tell those that have been seriously injured in 'clipless moments' that it's just a laugh and the advantages were worth it. I AM NOT saying don't go clipless but I am saying don't believe everything you hear.

feet slipping on pedals, sore feet, etc, etc - not for me, get flat pedals that give a decent supportive platform/grip and you can ride in anything - though I will admit to not doing too well in flip flops last year, but then I don't do too well walking in flip flops.

power - climbs and sprints, yep I can see that - everything else...nah....you'll hear plenty claim that it's night and day but you won't see much in the way of - 10 miles takes me 40 minutes on flat pedals but only 20 minutes with clipless - in fact the differences, if any, are more likley to be measured in seconds than minutes. As for pulling up on the pedals, that only happens on limited occasions.

pedalling properly/knee pain - more crud, you can pedal perfectly adequately without being attached to the pedal and you can reposition your feet to suit how you are at that time and on that day. Search the forums and you'll find plenty about knee pain, a lot of which can be resolved by getting the saddle/pedal relationship correct. After that though it becomes a list of how are your cleats? how much float? have they been fitted properly? try moving them a few mm at a time, get a proper shoe fit with special wedges, try a different pedal/shoe setup. It's a marketing wet dream, not only have they created an entire shoe/pedal industry but they've got people spending more dosh to try and tweak to get the perfect fit.

As per Rivbikes:-
http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

Go clipless, don't go clipless, I don't care, but don't accept at face value the garbage that's trotted out on the subject. Have a think about reality and what you want to do, if that involves making a living in cycling then clipless is your friend, anything else is just slurping the marketing coolade.


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## Mr Cheese (11 Feb 2011)

Have to agree with MacB! I opted for some "clipless" pedals and shoes after commuting for about a year. I therefore thought I was a "proper" cyclist and needed some "proper" cycling shoes.

They did nothing for me whatsoever, apart from causing knee pain which no amount of adjusting of the cleats could solve. I noticed no improvement in my cycling and certainly nothing to convince me of the oft quoted "go clipless and you'll never go back".

I have now swapped for some V8 pedals, which have good grippy spikes to prevent my feet from slipping when wet, and a large comfortable platform. Much less hassle, too.


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## tyred (11 Feb 2011)

+1 to the shoe ruse.


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

MacB said:


> Wow, somebody not had a compliment about his incredible power today then?


Not sure, I've not seen that guy today to ask him... not that I would either. My upstroke utilisation is in a different cadence range & is a different profile, I just happened to have that data readily available.

I after cracking my SPD shoe open I went with flat pedals on my MTB with Wellgo B54s. On the smoother surfaces & down hill they were fine but on the rough & rutted surfaces & up hill I must have lost my footing at least 4 times a ride. From personal experience pins make a real mess of your shin & the sole of your shoe if you foot does slip... I ended up having to take antibiotics due to an infection in one of the gouges. So the injury thing swings both ways.


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## Banjo (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> I'd like to see those deal with 85-90w on the upstroke alone.... that 2.1N force *back & upwards* at 70 rpm



They arent designed for that are they? They will stop your foot sliding forwards into the wheel though.


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## Davidc (11 Feb 2011)

Thank you MacB. Nice to see some sense being posted about clipless pedals. The article in the link is one of the best I've ever seen on the subject. (I would think that as I agree with all of it!)

Clipless - IMO for normal mortals they're an expensive, useless and potentially dngerous waste of time. (Unless like me you can buy them for less than you sell them on for on ebay)


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

Banjo said:


> They arent designed for that are they? They will stop your foot sliding forwards into the wheel though.


I've never had my foot slip in front of the pedal, only behind it.


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## Angelfishsolo (11 Feb 2011)

IMHO once you take the SPD route you will never, ever want to ride on flats again.


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## Banjo (11 Feb 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> IMHO once you take the SPD route you will never, ever want to ride on flats again.




plus 1 to that. Being a clumsy sod it took me longer than most to get used to but wouldnt go back now.


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## Jezston (11 Feb 2011)

Been using clipless for just under a year now, never had a clipless 'moment'.

Just to derail (deraille?) the thread for a moment, but does anyone have any opinions on the different type of clipless systems out there? From the top of my memory I can think of:

1. Shimano SPD
2. Crank Bros 'eggbeaters'
3. Look pedals
4. Those ones with the circular pedal that I can't find but remember someone talking about them and how expensive they are.

I understand Look are more for serious road riding and aren't suitable for walking in, but what about SPDs vs the others? I went for Crank Bros on mine after being urged to try them as well as SPDs, and found them easier to clip in and out of from the off, so went for them over SPDs.

I've since got some jocular grief for not using SPDs and using those silly egg beater things, but haven't heard of any particular advantage SPDs have over them. Would anyone care to enlighten me?


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## Mr Cheese (11 Feb 2011)

Mr Cheese said:


> I noticed no improvement in my cycling and certainly nothing to convince me of the oft quoted "go clipless and you'll never go back".


See - two in this thread already!


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> 4. Those ones with the circular pedal that I can't find but remember someone talking about them and how expensive they are.


Speedplay Zero, Light Action & X series?


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## Jezston (11 Feb 2011)

That's the bunny!


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## HLaB (11 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Been using clipless for just under a year now, never had a clipless 'moment'.
> 
> Just to derail (deraille?) the thread for a moment, but does anyone have any opinions on the different type of clipless systems out there? From the top of my memory I can think of:
> 
> ...


The ones you are thinking about with the circular pedals are the speedplay frog; there's a few other too Time and SPD-sl. I don't think I would split into Shimano v others but mtb types (of which shimano spd see to be most common) via road types (Look Keo', Spd-sl, etc). I've never used the crank bro pedal but there just another type of mtb pedal and I dont recall anything negative about them; there just less common/ different some folk dont like that. This is just one review but the bloke seems to like them


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## Dave Davenport (11 Feb 2011)

Having looked at this and the op's other topics, I can't help thinking he's either taking the mick or is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.


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## Nigel182 (11 Feb 2011)

Well said on all the Plus and the negative points.

I went clipless 3 yrs ago and to have not looked back.

Shimano SPD Mountainbike on my Day to Day / Tourer Bike..... with MTB Shoes.... Ok to walk in (but not too far).

Shimano Road SPD on my Sportive / Racebike..... Damn good but Bloody great Triangular Cleat and Defo not good to walk in (for any distance).

Still very much liking the idea that if you try and don't suit Clipless then sell on the "Bay" and maybe even make a Profit.......

Whatever you choose Good Luck.


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> I'd like to see those deal with 85-90w on the upstroke alone.... that 2.1N force *back & upwards* at 70 rpm


2.1N is about half a pound of force. Does it make much difference?


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> I've never had my foot slip in front of the pedal, only behind it.


I have toe cups on my hardtail mountain bike, they keep my foot on the pedal even when the bike is pogo-sticking down a rocky descent.


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

MacB said:


> ...
> power - climbs and sprints, yep I can see that - everything else...nah....you'll hear plenty claim that it's night and day but you won't see much in the way of - 10 miles takes me 40 minutes on flat pedals but only 20 minutes with clipless - in fact the differences, if any, are more likley to be measured in seconds than minutes. As for pulling up on the pedals, that only happens on limited occasions...


+1
When I see people "pulling up" whilst mashing at low cadence, I can't help thinking they should be riding in a lower gear.


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> 2.1N is about half a pound of force. Does it make much difference?


You're right I got my self mixed up it was 2.1Nm, thus 12N @ the pedal, which makes a much more sensible 15-15.5W. Which for me on a road bike on drops with flat level road is about 0.6-0.7mph. I'd gone 2.1N @ cranks, 12Nm ... 12Nm @ 70rpm = 85-90w.

If we look at me climbing out of the saddle for about 5 min I'll be producing about 330-340w or around 40Nm (~228.5N), the upstroke will be contributing about 5.5Nm (~31.5N) to that or 45w


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## MacB (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> *Not sure, I've not seen that guy today to ask him... not that I would either*. My upstroke utilisation is in a different cadence range & is a different profile, I just happened to have that data readily available.
> 
> I after cracking my SPD shoe open I went with flat pedals on my MTB with Wellgo B54s. On the smoother surfaces & down hill they were fine but on the rough & rutted surfaces & up hill I must have lost my footing at least 4 times a ride. From personal experience pins make a real mess of your shin & the sole of your shoe if you foot does slip... I ended up having to take antibiotics due to an infection in one of the gouges. So the injury thing swings both ways.



Sorry, GB, it was meant to be witty but, having re-read it, it just came across as snippy...apologies


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## MacB (11 Feb 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Having looked at this and the op's other topics, I can't help thinking he's either taking the mick or is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.



Yep, could be someone just stirring the pot but, to be honest I don't really care, it's Friday and I was in the mood for a bit of 'pedal debate'


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## GrasB (11 Feb 2011)

MB no problems  



snailracer said:


> I have toe cups on my hardtail mountain bike, they keep my foot on the pedal even when the bike is pogo-sticking down a rocky descent.


Descents were never the problem, low power output, it was the ascents, or driving out of high resistance terrain that I had the problems. I was losing proper contact with the pedal on the upstroke then when I transitioned to the down stroke I'd have my foot to far back on the pedal so it pivoted around the axle dumping my foot.


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## lukesdad (11 Feb 2011)

Of course you could always screw your shoes to the pedals


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## Fab Foodie (11 Feb 2011)

Yes of course cycling shoes work. 
Maybe not everybodies cup of tea, but compared to sneakers/normal shoes and flat pedals or toe-clips and straps, modern clipless systems are as far as I'm concerned a notable improvement.

I'd never go back except on the pub-bike/hack (and even that has single-sided spds.
I would also add that the larger contact systems such as Look etc. are better than the original spd system on-bike (but a pain in the ar5e in the supermarket!).


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> ...Descents were never the problem, low power output, it was the ascents, or driving out of high resistance terrain that I had the problems. I was losing proper contact with the pedal on the upstroke then when I transitioned to the down stroke I'd have my foot to far back on the pedal so it pivoted around the axle dumping my foot.


Hmm your gearing and technique is adapted to make use of the pulling-up capability of clipless. When going up 'high resistance terrain' I get into granny gear and spin fast - too fast for my legs to actually pull on the upstroke. Different.


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## snailracer (11 Feb 2011)

GrasB said:


> You're right I got my self mixed up it was 2.1Nm, thus 12N @ the pedal, which makes a much more sensible 15-15.5W. Which for me on a road bike on drops with flat level road is about 0.6-0.7mph. I'd gone 2.1N @ cranks, 12Nm ... 12Nm @ 70rpm = 85-90w.
> 
> If we look at me climbing out of the saddle for about 5 min I'll be producing about 330-340w or around 40Nm (~228.5N), the upstroke will be contributing about 5.5Nm (~31.5N) to that or 45w


Your figures seem plausible, but, for aerobic climbing, conventional wisdom says the limiting factor is not your legs, but your cardio output, no?


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## Cubist (11 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Been using clipless for just under a year now, never had a clipless 'moment'.
> 
> Just to derail (deraille?) the thread for a moment, but does anyone have any opinions on the different type of clipless systems out there? From the top of my memory I can think of:
> 
> ...


I have, and still do, used both.

SteveAustin will be along soon to tell you how the Eggbeater pedals shear through the spindle and slice your leg open, but although this has been shown as a problem in the lightweight versions, I used the eggbeater C' s on my commuter and on my XC bike so far without bending or shearing any of them, and I'm a real Clydesdale on a MTB.

The eggbeaters are great because they are light, have a nice 6 degree float, only unclip sideways, so don't pull out when you're climbing or sprinting. 
They can however get a bit sloppy as the brass cleats wear out, and if you're on an animated bit of technical stuff I found they sometimes unclipped sideways as I shifted around. 

The design is two crossed sprung clips, in an X shape, so you can clip in on four sides. Fine to an extent, but I found if I was riding some really rocky stuff the bottom of the X could strike the rocks and spread open, releasing my foot just when I didn't want to have my feet free!

Also, and this might be because I am simply not very good, on some tricky bits I couldn't find the engage point quickly enough, and the design meant that where I would use the arch of my foot to put in a pedal stroke, the eggbeaters slipped and rolled to much, which left me cursing and swearing and desperately trying to find forward momentum if I ever stuttered or ground to a halt or got slowed to a stop by a rider in front of me

I have therefore relegated the eggbeaters to smooth trails or XC stuff only, and have a pair of shimano M545 for technical stuff where the weight isn't such an issue, but getting in another half-pedal stroke is.


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## rugbyluke (11 Feb 2011)

I don't have a problem with my feet slipping. I just see everyone with a road bike have them


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## chewy (12 Feb 2011)

All this is bloody interesting!
I did like that article, really another "up to you" consideration. But nice to see a heartfelt case against clipless instead of hearing how fantastic they are for a change!


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## buddha (12 Feb 2011)

Most of the time I use flats/platform pedals with Specialized Sonoma shoes - on a road bike! No problem keeping up with club runs etc. A good pedaling technique counts for a lot. And you learn to bunny hop potholes properly, rather than cheating 

The one gripe I have is that most non-clipless, cycle shoes with a grippy sole look like fat plimsolls.

I look on in awe at clipless riders in heavy traffic. Not for me though. The only time I go clipless (SPD-SL) is for longer rides in the lanes.


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## HLaB (12 Feb 2011)

buddha said:


> I look on in awe at clipless riders in heavy traffic. Not for me though. The only time I go clipless (SPD-SL) is for longer rides in the lanes.



Each to our own but I actually prefer clipless in heavy traffic I feel more connected to the bike; I use the spd's with M424 pedals in town though I find them much easier for clipping back in (and if I miss it doesn't really matter I can clip in at a later date); like you I save the spd-sl's for longer more continuous rides :-)


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## asterix (12 Feb 2011)

Not worth the bother IMO. Clipless are fine and I have shoes I can use off the bike without any problem at all.

Lidl's cycling shoes are the bargain of the century! I've some Shimano ones costing over 4x as much that I never wear after getting the Lidl ones.


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## GrasB (12 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> Hmm your gearing and technique is adapted to make use of the pulling-up capability of clipless. When going up 'high resistance terrain' I get into granny gear and spin fast - too fast for my legs to actually pull on the upstroke. Different.


I've done a lot of single pedal drills on a turbo, when one goes for a significant amount of time with only one foot on the pedal you develop a very efficient pedal stroke, where you pedal in circles rather than up & down letting the cranks guide your foot. While this doesn't mean you produce power on the upstroke normally you do quickly get to a point where for the vast majority of the upstroke our foot is effectively unweighted on the pedal. For me even at 130rpm I've only got useful downward pressure (>0.15N) on the pedal for 25-35 degrees of the upstroke leaving the remainder with 0 pressure or slight upwards force.




snailracer said:


> Your figures seem plausible, but, for aerobic climbing, conventional wisdom says the limiting factor is not your legs, but your cardio output, no?


FTP over 1h is about 210w @ 110 (+/-20) rpm, if I mix up the cadence & the pedal style I can add another 20-25w to that for 40-45 min, maybe longer I've never tried to hold on longer than that, by driving one group of muscles into mild oxygen debt while others rest & recuperate. Part of that process is using more upstroke & less downstroke essentially you have 4 options:
1) in the saddle without upstroke assistance
2) in the saddle with upstroke assistance
3) out the saddle without upstroke assistance
4) out the saddle with upstroke assistance
Within those options your choice of cadence (& position in the saddle) can change the exact utilisation of your muscles. Also it takes less power to lift the leg up than push it up with the pedal which goes back to the pedal drills.


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## Becs (12 Feb 2011)

for what it's worth I use touring pedals with an SPD side and a flat side on my pub bike and I wouldn't be without them for commuting - I clip in for longer rides, and do short hops in just about anything else (although I agree on the flip flops!). There's nothing more satisfying than overtaking a chap in lycra while wearing boots with 3in heels! Maybe pedals like these would be a good place to start?

I have SPD-SLs on my road bike and wouldn't be without them, even if I did fall into a pile of horse shoot during my first CM!


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## chewy (12 Feb 2011)

3 inch heels on a bike! 


That is strangely attractive...... I think ! :-D


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## JonnyBlade (12 Feb 2011)

I use the 'Look' peddles and I'd never go back. Fallen around 3 times and each time it's in slow motion and you feel a bit of a tit. The people watching you find it a blast and there's something addictive about laughing at them laughing at you


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## Clx1 (16 Feb 2011)

Sorry to be so blunt but the people that don't think that clipless is the optimum pedal system clearly haven't tried them or haven't mastered using them properly. For any kind of Road bike (not Hybrid/Commuter) clipless is the most comfortable and efficient system. After a short period of time they become second nature. SPD pedals are useful if you ride a Mountain bike or need to walk a lot but come a poor second to Look/Speedplay/SPD-SL systems.


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## Richard Adams (16 Feb 2011)

Attached to the pedal or just pushing on it, cycling shoes are a great bonus for me compared to cycling in shoes and trainers which I did for years. Stops all the cramp I used to get in my feet.


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## snailracer (17 Feb 2011)

Clx1 said:


> ... For any kind of Road bike (not Hybrid/Commuter) clipless is the most comfortable and efficient system...


OK, what is so unique about road bikes and clipless?


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## alecstilleyedye (17 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> OK, what is so unique about road bikes and clipless?



not many people are likely to be riding 50+ miles on such a bike, and commuters might prefer spds for ease of walking.


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## snailracer (17 Feb 2011)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...’s-complete-medical-guide-for-cyclists_137556


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## MacB (17 Feb 2011)

Clx1 said:


> Sorry to be so blunt but the people that don't think that clipless is the optimum pedal system clearly haven't tried them or haven't mastered using them properly. For any kind of Road bike (not Hybrid/Commuter) clipless is the most comfortable and efficient system. After a short period of time they become second nature. SPD pedals are useful if you ride a Mountain bike or need to walk a lot but come a poor second to Look/Speedplay/SPD-SL systems.



Excellent now could you please supply your data that supports this assertion?


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## Dan B (17 Feb 2011)

Sheesh, I never dreamed this was such a hot topic. I use them (SPDs) on my town bike, but I have a comfy pair of SPD-compatible shoes that I can wear all day and a job in which I can get away with that attire. I use Look pedals on my nice bike for longer rides, but I find them a menace in stop/start traffic because they're single-sided and if I don't clip in on the first revolution then I'm trying to accelerate by pushing on a concave plastic surface with a slidey plastic cleat - not a good experience. I occasionally use flats on Boris Bikes, and am reasonably convinced each time I do that the tradeoffs there are not ones that work for me: I like to be able to pull away swiftly at lights by giving it a bit of welly and without fiddling with gears.

Try 'em, see if you like them. That's the only sensible recommendation. If you have friends who ride then ask around and you'll probably find someone with your shoe size who's willing to let you have a go. Otherwise it sounds like you can buy them anyway and recoup your loss on ebay if you don't get on with them, but that's a bit more faff.


I've had a couple of clipless moments. Both, entirely coincidentally I'm sure, in situations where my reactions may have been dulled somewhat by tiredness or by legal intoxicants


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## Arch (17 Feb 2011)

Well, I use clipless on my trike - they are pretty important on a recumbent to prevent footsuck if your feet slip off downwards. On my summer bike (Giant FCR, flat barred) I have toecups - I use it for commuting and some longer leisure rides. On my winter bike, which tends to be commuting only, I have flat rubber LED illuminated pedals. Apart from the lights, they mean I can use my steel toecap workboots to ride in.

I'm not remotely interested in how much power I put through the pedals, and extremely wary of falling off, so clipless doesn't appeal to me. Also, I like to be able to walk. My SPD shoes are walkable, although I do sound like Fred Astaire in them, and when I ever replace them I'll see if I can get some even more recessed ones.

Oh, the work trikes have quite good grippy BMX pedals with little stubs that stick up into the shoe tread, and they work really well, with a bit of practice you can even use them to pull the pedal up a bit for starting off.


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## Clx1 (17 Feb 2011)

MacB said:


> Excellent now could you please supply your data that supports this assertion?



No, didn't realise I had to prove my opinion.


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## snailracer (17 Feb 2011)

Clx1 said:


> No, didn't realise I had to prove my opinion.


OK, your assertions are wrong - in my opinion, of course.


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## totallyfixed (17 Feb 2011)

Clipless? load of rubbish, I mean no self respecting pro rider or club rider is going to wear anything but trainers are they






Definition of a death wish on a bike - pedalling fixed wheel with your foot *not *secured to pedal.


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## youngoldbloke (17 Feb 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> Clipless? load of rubbish, I mean no self respecting pro rider or club rider is going to wear anything but trainers are they
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1


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## MacB (18 Feb 2011)

Clx1 said:


> No, didn't realise I had to prove my opinion.



you're the one that said it was the optimum system, not me...if it works for you, then great but you make the assumption that, for those it doesn't work for, then they must be doing something wrong. With such a strong assertion I thought it reasonable to query the evidence.


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## MacB (18 Feb 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> Clipless? load of rubbish, I mean no self respecting pro rider or club rider is going to wear anything but trainers are they
> 
> 
> 
> ...



??? but we're not pro riders, we're not club riders(I'm not speaking for you here) and I don't think anyone would deny that, in the pro game at least, seconds and split seconds matter. I also don't think anyone would argue that the peformance gain given by equipment will diminish the further down the cycling pecking order you get. Nobody has suggested that anyone involved in serious racing should wear trainers and use flat pedals. But as you travel further down the pecking order the decision is nowhere near as clearcut as some proponents seem to think. Take myself as an example:-

could my performance improve? - undoubtedly but any gains that clipless pedals could offer would be dwarfed by the gains on offer from losing weight and improving general fitness - but, and this is important, so far I have had no cycling ambitions that I haven't been able to meet using flat pedals. They may be far lower ambitions than your own, but that's why they're mine...and I'm happy
do I have pedal/foot/knee issues? - not even remotely, don't suffer from any of the problems people seem to trot out about flat pedals
convenience? - I enjoy the freedom of being able to wear whatever footwear I like, I would rather not curtail that freedom
safety? - as I don't suffer from foot slippage then attachment to a pedal can only decrease my safety by bringing in the potential for a clipless moment
cost? - no comparison, my pedals all cost less than £20 and I don't need any special shoes or cleats

Oh, and there are people riding fixed with no pedal retention just fine.


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## Cush (18 Feb 2011)

Having read the pro's and con's about pedals in this forum and checked other forums etc and needing a new pair of pedals before long and the bike due for it's annual service in the next week I have decided not to go for clipless. Three main reasons are (1) Cost Pedals + shoes = around + £80 min (2) Too Technical i.e I dont fancy the learning curve. (3) The Walsh fell boots with the ripple sole I use for fast walking are also ideal for the bike.


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## snailracer (18 Feb 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> Clipless? load of rubbish, I mean no self respecting *pro rider or club rider* is going to wear anything but trainers are they
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pro riders use what their sponsors pay them to use. Club riders copycat pro riders. Trainers are for yoofs, I wear proper shoes with hard soles when I'm cycling.

Agree with using them on fixed, though.


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## tyred (18 Feb 2011)

I get along fine with toe-clips and straps on my fixed gear. Never had any issues and doesn't really restrict my footwear choices too much. I had toe clips on my geared Peugeot road bike but actually removed them again. The traditional road alloy pedals with serrated edges that I use are pretty grippy and I have never had my feet slip of them. 

Bear in mind that all early bikes were fixed gear but clipless pedals didn't come along until about 90 years later. How on earth did they ride them?

I have a suspicion that many make the mistake of thinking all flat pedals are like the shite plastic things which come on many new bikes. Quality flat pedals are much better in every way.

I'm not trying to race anyone, so I couldn't care less if I'm a few seconds slower over ten miles than I might be if I used clipless pedals. I read a lot of "started using clipless and my knees hurt" or "started using clipless and I fell over at the front of a queue of angry cars" or "started using clipless and my feet hurt/are cold/wet/numb." I don't have these problems.


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## youngoldbloke (18 Feb 2011)

The bottom line is that I find using clipless pedals makes my cycling more enjoyable, as did clips and straps. Without being 'attached' to the pedals 'honking' - "en danseuse", is difficult, and the whole process of pedalling feels (IMHO) less efficient. Each to his/her own, but don't knock it if you havent tried it.


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## youngoldbloke (18 Feb 2011)

tyred said:


> Bear in mind that all early bikes were fixed gear but clipless pedals didn't come along until about 90 years later. How on earth did they ride them?



pedal museum timeline refers to a primitive toeclip dating from 1868, and the first photograph is of the Sager Patented of 1896*. 
*


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## Fab Foodie (18 Feb 2011)

snailracer said:


> *Pro riders use what their sponsors pay them to use. Club riders copycat pro riders.* Trainers are for yoofs, I wear proper shoes with hard soles when I'm cycling.
> 
> Agree with using them on fixed, though.



Do you really believe that pros only weare clipless because they're paid to? I'll agree that they're paid to promote certain brands but if they were of little value I can't see why they wouldn't use something better and be paid to use that ....


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## Smokin Joe (18 Feb 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Do you really believe that pros only weare clipless because they're paid to?


Course they do.

Merckx would have given his eye teeth to ride the TdF in flip-flops and rubber pedals if it wasn't for those pesky sponsors.


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