# Losing energy in my legs, before losing my breath - what to do?



## Boris Bike (20 Aug 2012)

I wouldn't consider myself super-fit by any means, but I've been cycling to work an average of 3 times a week for the last month (17 miles round trip) and I've got to the stage where my legs start to get tired before I start to run out of breath.

Anything I can do? Eat more carbs? Some weight training on the legs? Attach a motor to the bike?

When I'm at the stage where I'm out of breath before my legs hurt, then I'll start thinking about giving up smoking


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## black'n'yellow (20 Aug 2012)

Train yourself to ride longer by going on longer rides. Weight training will be pointless - you already have all the leg strength you need...


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## marzjennings (20 Aug 2012)

Eat more protein after each ride, it'll help your muscles recover and grow.

And, as mentioned, ride more.


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## marinyork (20 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> Train yourself to ride longer by going on longer rides. Weight training will be pointless - you already have all the leg strength you need...


 
It may not be pointless, leg strength might be the problem too? People aren't necessarily born with the thighs of Chris Hoy. I had exactly this problem when I started riding a bike, but I didn't realise it at the time. Agreed that it's not necessarily that likely to be the problem for everybody and endurance is definitely something new people have to work for, but once you achieve it the benefits are huge.


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## MattHB (20 Aug 2012)

Boris Bike said:


> I wouldn't consider myself super-fit by any means, but I've been cycling to work an average of 3 times a week for the last month (17 miles round trip) and I've got to the stage where my legs start to get tired before I start to run out of breath.
> 
> Anything I can do? Eat more carbs? Some weight training on the legs? Attach a motor to the bike?
> 
> *When I'm at the stage where I'm out of breath before my legs hurt, then I'll start thinking about giving up smoking *



Smoking will cause less oxygen to get to muscles than someone with healthy lungs.. This will make your legs hurt and you'll loose power.

With a rubbish respiratory system it's pointless to look at anything else until you've started to fix it. 

Give up smoking.


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## fossyant (20 Aug 2012)

It's only a month. Takes a fair while.


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## MrJamie (20 Aug 2012)

You could also try just breathing more heavily to make sure the muscles are getting plenty of oxygen, its very easy to feel like you dont need to breathe that hard and go anaerobic in my limited experience


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## Boris Bike (20 Aug 2012)

Thanks all. I've got a 52 mile ride coming up next month so I'll be going on some longer rides. I'll get some protein in too. Maybe not the shakes, but I'll take a look at the bars to replace the cereal bars I have at work for breakfast


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## Drago (20 Aug 2012)

As a powerlifter-cum-cyclist I would recommend some infrequent weight training. You can equally increase your endurance as well as your strength, depending on the weight/rep cycle you do. That, plenty of sleep, some complex carbs, and a nice pint of Guinness occasionally.

Be triple certain you have your bike set up to the optimum fit as well. Been fiddling with the set up on my commuter for a few weeks, and a half inch/5 degree adjustment to the saddle has made a phenomenal difference to the time the fatique sets in.


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## black'n'yellow (20 Aug 2012)

marinyork said:


> It may not be pointless, leg strength might be the problem too? People aren't necessarily born with the thighs of Chris Hoy. I had exactly this problem when I started riding a bike, but I didn't realise it at the time. Agreed that it's not necessarily that likely to be the problem for everybody and endurance is definitely something new people have to work for, but once you achieve it the benefits are huge.


 
As long as you are capable of climbing a set of stairs, or getting up out of a chair from a seated position, then the problem is not leg strength, I promise you. You already have all the leg strength you need to cycle. What the guy probably lacks is the ability to repeatedly apply that strength over a sustained period. Your ability to do that depends on your aerobic capacity - not your leg strength.


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## annaspanna (20 Aug 2012)

Boris Bike said:


> Thanks all. I've got a 52 mile ride coming up next month so I'll be going on some longer rides. I'll get some protein in too. Maybe not the shakes, but I'll take a look at the bars to replace the cereal bars I have at work for breakfast


Try chocolate milk (nesquik).. Supposed to be great just before bed to help muscle repair (plus it tastes good ;-))


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## marzjennings (20 Aug 2012)

I missed the reference to smoking, but your legs muscles may be getting tired due to lack of oxygen due to your smoking. You may have to quit earlier than you planned.


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## MattHB (20 Aug 2012)

marzjennings said:


> I missed the reference to smoking, but your legs muscles may be getting tired due to lack of oxygen due to your smoking. You may have to quit earlier than you planned.



IMHO until you fix that, it's totally pointless worrying about anything else


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## black'n'yellow (20 Aug 2012)

I saw the smoking reference, but assumed he was joking(?). As others have said, give up the fags.


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## wheres_my_beard (20 Aug 2012)

Warm up. Get your heart rate up before going all out, so your leg muscles are well oxygenated before setting off. I get this on my commute, where it takes a while for my legs, lungs and heart rate to get up to speed, and by the time I feel really pumped, I'm at work! I have a short commute though. 

Give up the fags too, or cut out the morning ones before work, or close to riding home, maybe try patches to replace these ones.


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## rowdin (20 Aug 2012)

Pick a lower gear and up your rpm, it sounds like you are grinding a high gear. I spend most of my time in a gear ratio of 48/18 or 48/21, easy on the legs harder on the heart.


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## fossyant (21 Aug 2012)

fossyant said:


> It's only a month. Takes a fair while.


 
THIS - Ignore the idiots above ! You have to keep at it - progress will come. Oh and ditch the cigs !


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Aug 2012)

marinyork said:


> It may not be pointless, leg strength might be the problem too? People aren't necessarily born with the thighs of Chris Hoy. I had exactly this problem when I started riding a bike, but I didn't realise it at the time. Agreed that it's not necessarily that likely to be the problem for everybody and endurance is definitely something new people have to work for, but once you achieve it the benefits are huge.


Leg strength is not the problem. Chris Hoy is a very very poor analogy.


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## black'n'yellow (21 Aug 2012)

fossyant said:


> THIS - Ignore the idiots above ! You have to keep at it - progress will come. Oh and ditch the cigs !


 
which 'idiots' are you referring to? I can't see any replies here which I would regard as 'idiotic'..??


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## ColinJ (21 Aug 2012)

As a non-powerlifter-cum-cyclist I would _not_ recommend any weight training!

Learn to spin an easier gear. (Oops - beaten to it by rowdin!)


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## Strathlubnaig (21 Aug 2012)

Aye, quit smoking. It's for losers. It's stupid, expensive, stinks, kills you, anti-social etc. You will benefit.


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## fossyant (21 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> which 'idiots' are you referring to? I can't see any replies here which I would regard as 'idiotic'..??


 
You are far too serious some times. 

The OP has only been riding a month, and about 3 times a week. Improvements take time. More carbs/weight training - not really necessary just yet - he just needs to stick at it, keep riding and slowly increase the miles.


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## black'n'yellow (21 Aug 2012)

fossyant said:


> You are far too serious some times.
> 
> The OP has only been riding a month, and about 3 times a week. Improvements take time. More carbs/weight training - not really necessary just yet - he just needs to stick at it, keep riding and slowly increase the miles.


 
so pretty much what everyone else has said then..?


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## Boris Bike (21 Aug 2012)

I've been riding for just over a year, but very off-and-on. I'd say until the Olympics started I was averaging less than one commute a week.

I'll have a think about the smoking too....


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## lordloveaduck (21 Aug 2012)

squats. It builds your legs.

PS also time and patience


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## black'n'yellow (21 Aug 2012)

lordloveaduck said:


> squats. It builds your legs.


 
Squats may indeed 'build your legs' - but the point is that 'building your legs' is almost certainly not necessary..


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## Peter Armstrong (21 Aug 2012)

Is this not related to the bodies’ efficiency in removing the lactic acid from the legs, and the only way to do that, is once a week does a long cycle, increasing the distance by 10% per week?


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## Rob3rt (21 Aug 2012)

Unless you are a (track) sprinter and need awesome power to accelerate a big gear (from near stationary) then weight training on your legs is just not required. If you have to do some gym work, you would be far better off working on your core (it's a weak core that will have you slumping and rocking about on the bike when you get tired). If you must do something for your legs, then body weight jump squats will be sufficient.

Basic aerobic fitness is the problem here, it's beyond obvious! Once a good base of aerobic fitness is gained (by riding more) then one should start to train the lactate threshold (by riding at an effort just below the anaerobic threshold for sustained periods) if they want to go faster.


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## lordloveaduck (21 Aug 2012)

Helped me. Just a few a day and it worked wonders.


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## black'n'yellow (21 Aug 2012)

lordloveaduck said:


> Helped me. Just a few a day and it worked wonders.


 
worked wonders how..?


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## Drago (21 Aug 2012)

ColinJ said:


> As a non-powerlifter-cum-cyclist I would _not_ recommend any weight training!
> 
> Learn to spin an easier gear. (Oops - beaten to it by rowdin!)


He's right, a good technique and cadence can count for a helluva lot.


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## cyberknight (21 Aug 2012)

Another vote for looking at your cadence , i also find that if the saddle is to low my thighs burn .


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## Rob500 (21 Aug 2012)

What was that saying my old granny used to dish out? No wait a minute. She wasn't a cyclist.

It was on here that I read it. (Went something like the following though I may have messed it up)

If your legs give in before your heart & lungs then just change down.
If your heart & lungs give in before your legs then just get fitter.


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## Strathlubnaig (21 Aug 2012)

and of course don't forget, it never gets easier, you just get faster.


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## Drago (22 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> Squats may indeed 'build your legs' - but the point is that 'building your legs' is almost certainly not necessary..


I do squats, peaking at 220kg. This give me phenomenal strength for starting the clean and jerk. This translates nicely into cycling - on the steepest of hills my legs don't get close to their capacity. Muscles ticking over will simply go on a lot longer than muscles working flat out to do the same job.


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## Rob3rt (22 Aug 2012)

Drago said:


> I do squats, peaking at 220kg. This give me phenomenal strength for starting the clean and jerk. This translates nicely into cycling - on the steepest of hills my legs don't get close to their capacity. Muscles ticking over will simply go on a lot longer than muscles working flat out to do the same job.


 
I can only squat about half of your peak but I have yet to find any situation on a bike that approaches even that capacity. You are just lugging a load of extra weight around and all that additional mass is using up your precious oxygen!

Have a quick look at a hill climbing specialist's physique since you use a hill as an example.


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## black'n'yellow (22 Aug 2012)

Drago said:


> I do squats, peaking at 220kg. This give me phenomenal strength for starting the clean and jerk. This translates nicely into cycling - on the steepest of hills my legs don't get close to their capacity. *Muscles ticking over will simply go on a lot longer than muscles working flat out to do the same job.*


 
congrats - you've just perfectly described an aerobic effort - which has sod all to do with lifting weights. I don't do weights at all - never have - but it's quite possible that I go up hills better than you do. Why might that be..?


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## Drago (22 Aug 2012)

But it's quite possible you can't. 

In any case, we're discussing muscular endurance, not performance.

You're right Rob, my physique isn't ideal for cycling. I'm lugging around about 30kg of muscle mass I never used to have before I started 'lifting, but liftings the other sport I'm into so I got a live with it. The tightened hamstrings from cycling can be a problem for the lifting, so some of the pluses can be a bit of a downside in the other sport. If I were looking at weights purely to help my cycling it'd be a much different and lighter regime.

But 'ell, I'm 'ard as nails like


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## srw (22 Aug 2012)

None of which is much use to the OP, who's simply new and needs to give himself a break.


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## black'n'yellow (22 Aug 2012)

Drago said:


> But it's quite possible you can't.


 
what level do you ride at Drago? Please tell me you're a 1st cat. I'm not exactly Wiggo, but if you can climb better than me and the other fellas I race with (none of whom spend any time in the gym as far as I'm aware - well, not to improve their cycling anyway), then I will go out and buy a multigym tomorrow.



Drago said:


> In any case, we're discussing muscular endurance, not performance.


 
Performance comes from endurance - we are talking about endurance cycling, after all...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Aug 2012)

Drago said:


> I do squats, peaking at 220kg. This give me phenomenal strength for starting the clean and jerk. This translates nicely into cycling - on the steepest of hills my legs don't get close to their capacity. Muscles ticking over will simply go on a lot longer than muscles working flat out to do the same job.


Typical ignorant bodybuilder stance really. Your muscle mass and squat ability have zero relevance to cycling.


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> *what level do you ride at Drago?* Please tell me you're a 1st cat. I'm not exactly Wiggo, but if you can climb better than me and the other fellas I race with (none of whom spend any time in the gym as far as I'm aware - well, not to improve their cycling anyway), then I will go out and buy a multigym tomorrow.
> 
> Performance comes from endurance - we are talking about endurance cycling, after all...


 
I am more interested in what level he compete's in power lifting at. Just curious, as my girlfriends younger brother is a powerlifter.


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## ThaiGuy (28 Aug 2012)

Rest. You might not be getting enough sleep for muscles to repair.


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## ayceejay (29 Aug 2012)

*IF* and I mean _if _the problem is lactic acid build up this can often be temporarily fixed by a short spell out of the saddle. Cycling is not a whole body exercise  and standing up may ease the problem by moving the blood around. Aerobic training (LSD) will improve your body's capacity to transport oxygen via your blood so that you can ride for longer.


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## Lee_M (29 Aug 2012)

Rob500 said:


> If your legs give in before your heart & lungs then just change down.
> If your heart & lungs give in before your legs then just get fitter.



What do you do when you run out of gears?

Serious question btw


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## black'n'yellow (29 Aug 2012)

Lee_M said:


> What do you do when you run out of gears?
> 
> Serious question btw


 
get off and push..


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## Lee_M (29 Aug 2012)

If I did that every time I ran out of gears I could take up walking instead!


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## Peteaud (29 Aug 2012)

Give up the fags.


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## Lee_M (29 Aug 2012)

Don't smoke, never have

I am 6'3" and weigh 15 st though which doesn't make life easy up hill


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## Peteaud (29 Aug 2012)

Lee_M said:


> Don't smoke, never have
> 
> I am 6'3" and weigh 15 st though which doesn't make life easy up hill


Well i am 6' and 14.5 stone so your skinny


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## Lee_M (29 Aug 2012)

Yep, I'm not fat, just bloody big 

Brilliant for downhill though


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## oldgreyandslow (29 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> get off and push..


 No......... keep going, suffer like buggery, at less than walking pace, get sooooooo slow that you can't unclip in time and gently topple over like a slowly falling tree


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## Peteaud (29 Aug 2012)

Lee_M said:


> Yep, I'm not fat, just bloody big
> 
> Brilliant for downhill though


 
I am "big boned"

(Are bones made from pasties?)


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## Lee_M (29 Aug 2012)

oldgreyandslow said:


> No......... keep going, suffer like buggery, at less than walking pace, get sooooooo slow that you can't unclip in time and gently topple over like a slowly falling tree



I don't suffer, I just can't push the gear on some of the hills

And anyway as I proved on Monday I can topple outside a cafe, I don't need a hill


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## black'n'yellow (29 Aug 2012)

Lee_M said:


> If I did that every time I ran out of gears I could take up walking instead!


 
Many years ago, we used to take the granny rings off our MTBs for racing - the rationale was that if you ever needed to drop down to the granny ring, you were quicker walking/running anyway. We never actually tested the science, but anecdotally, it seemed to make sense...


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## BLUE(UK) (31 Aug 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Typical ignorant bodybuilder stance really. Your muscle mass and squat ability have zero relevance to cycling.


 
To cycling on the whole or distance cycling because you have left yourself wide open to ridicule. Drago didn't say whether he did high rep sets as well as or what other assistance work he does.

I am also like Drago, I lift weights and cycle as a hobby/small part of my cardio work. I don't claim to be fast on a bike( i am 17.5st) but i don't really struggle muscularly although my heart rate will be right up there. I can happily do 45miles leisurely pace in 3.5hrs(not balls out) which isn't bad considering I only started a few weeks back and I am riding an hybrid. No previous cardio in a long time. Read into this what you like.

I think a fairer way to test yourself(Black'n' yellow) against Drago would be if you used the same resistance/drag(carry weights so that both bodyweights/wind drag are equal) and riding the same bikes and see how well you ride against him.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (31 Aug 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> *To cycling on the whole or distance cycling because you have left yourself wide open to ridicule. Drago didn't say whether he did high rep sets as well as or what other assistance work he does.*


In actual fact, it was you left open to ridicule.


Drago said:


> I'm lugging around about 30kg of muscle mass I never used to have before I started 'lifting, but liftings the other sport I'm into so I got a live with it.


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## black'n'yellow (31 Aug 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I think a fairer way to test yourself(Black'n' yellow) against Drago would be if you used the same resistance/drag(carry weights so that both bodyweights/wind drag are equal) and riding the same bikes and see how well you ride against him.


 
It doesn't matter how you set up the test - the rider with the best cardio would still win.


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## BLUE(UK) (31 Aug 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> In actual fact, it was you left open to ridicule.


 

Care to elaborate?


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## BLUE(UK) (31 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> It doesn't matter how you set up the test - the rider with the best cardio would still win.


 
So a world class marathon runner/or sprinter would be better than yourself on a bike if they have better cardio?


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## black'n'yellow (31 Aug 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> So a world class marathon runner/or sprinter would be better than yourself on a bike if they have better cardio?


 
You've lost me. Earlier on I was meant to be having a race with Drago - and now I'm supposed to be racing a world class marathon runner and/or sprinter..?? 

By the way - you do know that there would be a bit of a difference in capability between a sprinter and a distance runner, don't you.?

Could you be clearer about what it is you're asking?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (31 Aug 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Care to elaborate?


You didn't read the thread did you? Bit silly to comment and suggest that someone else may be open to ridicule when you yourself haven't got or ignored the facts


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## BLUE(UK) (31 Aug 2012)

Yes I do know there would be a difference but both would have 'good cardio' as you put it.

The reason I posted about the runners, both would have good cardio vascular fitness(2 different types as well) yet it is very unlikely either would beat you on a bike if you're a regular racer. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that out and nor does it to see why.


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## black'n'yellow (31 Aug 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Yes I do know there would be a difference but both would have 'good cardio' as you put it.
> 
> The reason I posted about the runners, both would have good cardio vascular fitness(2 different types as well) yet it is very unlikely either would beat you on a bike if you're a regular racer. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that out and nor does it to see why.


 
er, ok - but I'm still not sure what point you are making. I never actually suggested any of the above - in fact, I think you were the one that brought it up..?


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## Jimmy Doug (31 Aug 2012)

Oh boy! Why all this arguing? Jeez!
I think we're losing track of the original point to this thread: helping Boris Bike rather than bickering! The thing is, everyone is different: perhaps weights work for Drago, maybe they don't for black'n'yellow, I dunno. Personally I think you need to consider the following:
1) How long have you been doing this? It may take a bit more time than you think.
2) Just when exactly are you going to quit smoking - but I don't need to say anything else about this
3) Rest is important - do you alternate between cycling and non-cycling days?
4) Has anyone mentioned diet?


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## Jimmy Doug (31 Aug 2012)

Oh, and 5) CADENCE!


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## Norm (31 Aug 2012)

Boris Bike said:


> I wouldn't consider myself super-fit by any means, but I've been cycling to work an average of 3 times a week for the last month (17 miles round trip) and I've got to the stage where my legs start to get tired before I start to run out of breath.
> 
> Anything I can do? Eat more carbs? Some weight training on the legs? Attach a motor to the bike?
> 
> When I'm at the stage where I'm out of breath before my legs hurt, then I'll start thinking about giving up smoking


IMO, and as others have said, change gears and spin faster. If my legs tire, it's nearly always because I've left a gear change too late when climbing and I'm working too hard in too high a gear.


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## black'n'yellow (31 Aug 2012)

Norm said:


> IMO, and as others have said, change gears and spin faster. If my legs tire, it's nearly always because I've left a gear change too late when climbing *and I'm working too hard in too high a gear*.


 
which is otherwise known as............wait for it................lack of aerobic fitness..!!! wahey and we're back to page 1 again...


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