# raising ahead handlebars



## daverave (6 Apr 2010)

Hi All,

Am fairly new to cycling and just bought a Cluad Butler Urban 200 (2010) model.

Before trying it out I've adjusted the seat height but I'm having great trouble raising the handlebar height. I believe this is an ahead type handlebar system. Any ideas on how to to this? I've already loosened the compression bolt and also the two steering clamp bolts (as per manual) but the damn thing wont budge!


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## Gerry Attrick (6 Apr 2010)

Ah, no. The ahead system depends on the lenghth of the steerer tube and the number of spacers under the stem. It doesn't just slide up and down as the old-style quill stems did.

Ahead stems are not as adjustable as quills and in most cases all you can do to lift the bars is to fit a stem with a greater degree of rise, or fit a steerer tube extender.

Why do you wish to lift the bars? Did your lbs not ensure the bike fitted you when you bought it?


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## daverave (6 Apr 2010)

Gerry Attrick said:


> Ah, no. The ahead system depends on the lenghth of the steerer tube and the number of spacers under the stem. It doesn't just slide up and down as the old-style quill stems did.
> 
> Ahead stems are not as adjustable as quills and in most cases all you can do to lift the bars is to fit a stem with a greater degree of rise, or fit a steerer tube extender.
> 
> Why do you wish to lift the bars? Did your lbs not ensure the bike fitted you when you bought it?



Cheers,

I've raised the seat by an inch or two, and according to the manual I should raise the handlebar to be level or in line with the seat. Am 6 ft 2, so went for the largest available frame (22 inches). Bought it off the internet not a local bike shop!


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## Gerry Attrick (6 Apr 2010)

Now that you have disturbed the clamp and preload screws, it may be wise to have a look at this: http://bicycletutor.com/adjust-threadless-headset/


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## ufkacbln (6 Apr 2010)

The only thing you can do is to alter the stem.... but this has a cost - especially if you don't get it right first time. 

Even with an adjustable stem there are issues as the ba moves in an arc, so higher = closer and lower = further.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Apr 2010)

you will probably need a new stem to achieve what you want, unless there are a lot of spacers on top of the existing stem which is unlikely. But try it a bit as is and see. you may be fine.

If not BBB do good cheap (relatively) high rise and / or adjustable stems. Bikeplus sell them iirc


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## RecordAceFromNew (6 Apr 2010)

daverave said:


> Before trying it out *I've adjusted the seat height* but I'm having great trouble raising the handlebar height. I believe this is an ahead type handlebar system. Any ideas on how to to this? I've already loosened the compression bolt and also the two steering clamp bolts (as per manual) but the damn thing wont budge!



If you have been raising the seatpost then inevitably you were moving the saddle back at the same time. Have you considered moving the saddle forward a little by loosening the seatpost clamp on the saddle rails? A cm or two can make a big difference to the feel.


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## Rob3rt (7 Apr 2010)

How are you deciding on your seat height? If you are following rules such as you should be on your tip toes when over the seat, forget that and look up a proper bike set up procedure. Sheldon Brown most likely provides a good one, he provides info on pretty much everything else.

Once your seat is adjusted properly, then you should start to think about the bars (you should get everything set up 100% at the back end 1st), if they still arent right with correct seat height. You may need to 

A) If there are spacers on top of the stem, take them off, remove the stem, put the spacers under it, then put the stem back on top.
 Flip the stem if it is downward angled
C) Buy a downward angled stem and put it on upside down
D) Buy a riser stem
E) Buy a track stem (aggressive downward angle, 60 degrees or so) and put it on upside down giving drastic rise.

Before buying stems etc, get some good measures of your limbs when your in a riding possition, this will hopefully avoid having to trial and error your way through a few stems and a pile of cash.


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## NorthernSky (12 Apr 2010)

think i've the same problem here. bought my bike off the internet (it was cheaper than lbs).

would like the handle bars to be a little higher. do i need to fit more spacers? i'm thinking of asking the store where i bought it to supply some


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## Soltydog (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> think i've the same problem here. bought my bike off the internet (it was cheaper than lbs).
> 
> would like the handle bars to be a little higher. do i need to fit more spacers? i'm thinking of asking the store where i bought it to supply some



Doesn't look like you can fit anymore spacers  Maybe try an angled stem to raise the bars further.


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## Norm (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> think i've the same problem here. bought my bike off the internet (it was cheaper than lbs).
> 
> would like the handle bars to be a little higher. do i need to fit more spacers? i'm thinking of asking the store where i bought it to supply some


How about just flipping the stem you've already got?  It'll change the angle slightly, as it'll bring it back a bit as well, but it's free and a 10 minute (less if you are experienced) job that you can try whilst cogitating on other solutions.


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## Debian (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> think i've the same problem here. bought my bike off the internet (it was cheaper than lbs).
> 
> would like the handle bars to be a little higher. do i need to fit more spacers? i'm thinking of asking the store where i bought it to supply some



You'll need an upward angled, or an adjustable stem in order to raise the bars further, or maybe you could put yours on upside down?.

I use a Ritchie 75mm adjustable on my Specialized FSR XC as I found the original stem gave me too much reach and too little rise, the Ritchie sorted it fine.


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## zacklaws (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> think i've the same problem here. bought my bike off the internet (it was cheaper than lbs).
> 
> would like the handle bars to be a little higher. do i need to fit more spacers? i'm thinking of asking the store where i bought it to supply some



As others have said spin it round before investing in a new stem, looking at the pic yours is angled downwards and by the writing on it, it is one designed to be fitted either way. I did it with mine and it had the effect of raising the bars by about 4cm (measured from the top of my brake calipre) and also shortening the stem by approx 10mm. I then found it too high so just removed a spacer from underneath and fitted it above the stem and its now spot on.


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## Norm (12 Apr 2010)

Debian said:


> You'll need an upward angled, or an adjustable stem in order to raise the bars further, or maybe you could put yours on upside down?.


I think that you were probably writing this at the same time that I was writing mine, Debs  but he already has an upward angled one fitted, it's just that it's upside down at the moment.


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## Debian (12 Apr 2010)

Norm said:


> I think that you were probably writing this at the same time that I was writing mine, Debs  but he already has an upward angled one fitted, it's just that it's upside down at the moment.



Shows how much attention I'm paying to things at the moment. 

Bored here at work, think I'll wander over to the LBS across the road.


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## Norm (12 Apr 2010)

Don't do it, Debian! 

Or, well, if you do, I need new shoes, pedals and, by coincidence, a shorter stem, there's a good chap.


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## Debian (12 Apr 2010)

I never need anything..... until I walk into the shop...


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## NorthernSky (12 Apr 2010)

ah right, so just take this bit and flip it (sorry, pictures paint a thousand words )


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## Rob3rt (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> ah right, so just take this bit and flip it (sorry, pictures paint a thousand words )



Yup, flip it upside down (like someone else pointed out, the graphic on it is made to go either way up so it will look like its on as per normal), and re-clamp. Job done, will take a few mins, if thats not high enough then you can buy one with a steeper angle and put that on upside down or buy a dedicated riser stem(which is in essence a flipped road stem with the graphic on it up the other way ).


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## Norm (12 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> ah right, so just take this bit and flip it (sorry, pictures paint a thousand words )


Yup, just take that bit off and flip it.

Have a good look at the bits as you take it apart. You shouldn't need to dismantle much stuff from the stem, no need to play with the spacers, for instance and you may not need to remove anything more than the top cap. Check out the orientation of the star nut if you do need to take that off.

Sorry, it's been a while since I had mine apart. 

Reading this page will probably help more than anything that I could type.


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## g00se (12 Apr 2010)

Also, this is quite a good video on adjusting the height:

http://www.ehow.com/video_2260460_adjust-stem-height-mountain-bike.html

There are other vids on that site for removing and reattaching stems.


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## NorthernSky (12 Apr 2010)

thanks, i'll let yous know how i get on


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## NorthernSky (16 Apr 2010)

switch that round. gives me about 2cm extra height i think so its pretty good.

went out last night. lovely head wind. looked nice before i headed out but its still cold out there


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## NorthernSky (21 Apr 2010)

Debian said:


> You'll need an upward angled, or an adjustable stem in order to raise the bars further, or maybe you could put yours on upside down?.
> 
> I use a Ritchie 75mm adjustable on my Specialized FSR XC as I found the original stem gave me too much reach and too little rise, the Ritchie sorted it fine.



i'm now thinking of gettin a replacement stem.

it says 8n-m on mine, is that the degrees/angle

the adjustable ones sound good


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## jethro10 (21 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> i'm now thinking of gettin a replacement stem.
> 
> it says 8n-m on mine, is that the degrees/angle
> 
> the adjustable ones sound good




8 Nm is Newton Meters, the tightens of the bolts, it's set on a torque wrench.

Seems to me, lots of stems are 5 and 6 degree angles, only a few are very different, this stem is 30 degrees angle!
http://www.bbbparts.com/stems_bhs41.php

Jeff


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## jethro10 (21 Apr 2010)

cruiser31 said:


> i'm now thinking of gettin a replacement stem.
> 
> it says 8n-m on mine, is that the degrees/angle
> 
> the adjustable ones sound good




8 Nm is Newton Meters, the tightens of the bolts, it's set on a torque wrench.

Seems to me, lots of stems are 5 and 6 degree angles, only a few are very different, this stem is 35 degrees angle!
http://www.bbbparts.com/stems_bhs41.php

and these are adjustable
http://www.bbbparts.com/stems_bhs23.php

Jeff


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## NorthernSky (21 Apr 2010)

ah right, thanks

are they all standard fitting too, tube sizes etc

no prices there?


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## NorthernSky (27 Apr 2010)

i've established i need a new stem then to raise myself up a good bit (i've a bit of an arch in my back at my shoulders and find i'm getting pain in the area between my shoulders and bottom of my neck from leaning over)


i'm looking at buying something like this then

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39262


are stems standard these days? are parts 1 and 2 on mine, below, going to be the same as parts one and two in the ritchey?

is the only measurement of a new stem thats variable the length, no3 on my pic (80mm, 100mm, 120mm on the ritchey)

i've no room for any more spacers, if you take everything off the tube has been cut to fit exactly.







thanks


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## Rob3rt (27 Apr 2010)

No, they arent exactly standard, you ned to determine if the handlebar clamping area is 31.8mm or 26mm (or one of the other available sizes, road bikes are usually one of the sizes I mentioned, OS or oversized stems refer to 31.8mm size clamping area). The steerer end is usually 1 1/8".


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## NorthernSky (27 Apr 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> No, they arent exactly standard, you ned to determine if the handlebar clamping area is 31.8mm or 26mm (or one of the other available sizes, road bikes are usually one of the sizes I mentioned, OS or oversized stems refer to 31.8mm size clamping area). The steerer end is usually 1 1/8".



ah ok thanks

i think all that info is written on the handle bars so i'll have look when i get back, and i may measure the steerer tube too i guess


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## karan733 (27 Apr 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> No, they arent exactly standard, you ned to determine if the handlebar clamping area is 31.8mm or 26mm (or one of the other available sizes, road bikes are usually one of the sizes I mentioned, OS or oversized stems refer to 31.8mm size clamping area). The steerer end is usually 1 1/8".



Is it a problem if you use a 26mm clamp on a 31.8mm clamp area? I.e, is it dangerous to use a clamp that is too small? Also looking to get the Ritchey in the near future, after everything else!


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## Rob3rt (27 Apr 2010)

If you try to get a 26mm clamp around a 31.8mm handlebar it wont go. Buy the right size stem for your bars. They need to be mechanically sound.


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## karan733 (27 Apr 2010)

Sorry, I meant across the handlebar (like, the width of the clamp along the handlebars?)


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## Rob3rt (27 Apr 2010)

The clamp size refers to the diameter, if you buy a stem to suit your handlebars the width of the clamping section shouldnt be an issue. I dont quite inderstand your question, sorry


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## karan733 (27 Apr 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> if you buy a stem to suit your handlebars the width of the clamping section shouldnt be an issue.



I think you've just answered my question actually, thanks 

Ill take a piccy tonight and post it to display what I meant though


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## youngoldbloke (27 Apr 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> No, they arent exactly standard, you ned to determine if the handlebar clamping area is 31.8mm or 26mm (or one of the other available sizes, road bikes are usually one of the sizes I mentioned, OS or oversized stems refer to 31.8mm size clamping area). The steerer end is usually 1 1/8".



As Rob3rt says 1 1/8" _dia_. It is worth noting that the stack height of the stem - the height of part 2 inyour pic is _not_ standard and may be the same, or longer, or shorter than your current stem. This might mean that you have to play around with the spacers on the steerer tube - maybe adding a thinner or fatter one with the new stem.


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## g00se (27 Apr 2010)

Of course - for a very quick fix while you're waiting for the new stem - you can always flip your current stem over and get an inch raise or so on the bars.


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## NorthernSky (29 Apr 2010)

if i was to go for one of these what length is best or standard, 100mm straight down the middle? (even though its not in stock :0)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39262


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## Rob3rt (29 Apr 2010)

There isnt really a standard, although when you buy a bike the manufacturer has usually estimated the length of the stem for the person who will ride the bike. For example my 58cm frames HAD 120mm stems. 


You should gauge for yourself the best length for you based on the ride possition intended on your specific bike. For example one may choose the stem on a drop handlebar road bike such then when on the hoods the arms would be extended with a slight bend at the elbow (this isnt absolute since rotating the bars will modify fit but it serves as an example). A TT rider may buy a longer stem to provide more room to tuck in and preserve hip angle when riding on the nose of the saddle with the saddle pushed forward.

If you cant gauge for yourself I would suggest that you get some pics of you side on and from the front sat on your bike in a accurate riding possition (get someone to hold you up, or stick bike on a turbo) and post them up. Someone may be able to lok at your current angles and suggest improvement to fit and stem length suggestions (shorter/longer, absolute measurements almost impossible). This is what I did in terms of advice for my aero possition and the advice given even though not absolute values did help to acheive a much better possition and increased comfort.

They say buying a longer stem changes handling, this was my concern, but to be honest, I havent noticed any difference in handling since buying a longer and more aggresivelly downward angled stem. Maybe its only noticable on technical courses. 

So in conclusion the stem length is determined by your body geometry and the type of riding and bike you have.


Also bear in mind with adjustable stems they move in an arc, so when raised or lowered they are closer to you and when straight they are further away.


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