# Approx £2k budget for an ebike



## samsbike (10 Sep 2020)

Rider is a novice and the bike is the only form of transport.

I think the key things are:

1. Crank driven motor - shimano or bosch
2. Biggest battery you can get to give it range
3. Preferably hub gears
4. Decent AD support which may limit things
5. Preferably standard dynamo lights, mudguards and pannier rack
6. Personally I think a step through for a newish rider
7. Given the guy isnt that tall - would 26in wheels be better?


Options are
1. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana3 (cheapish and will be sound)
2.Whisper Wayfarer - which is the top end of the spend and can get a much bigger battery https://wisperbikes.com/shop/e-bikes/step-through-ebikes/wayfarer-mid-drive-step-through-city/ or the cheaper hub drive https://wisperbikes.com/shop/e-bikes/step-through-ebikes/wayfarer-hub-drive-step-through-city/
3.Trek City bike but low power motor and battery https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/t...-electric-hybrid-bike-917441#colcode=91744102
4.Raliegh motus https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/motus-tour-hub-gear/low-step/?attrWheelSize=26 inch

Any others or recommendations?


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## Notafettler (10 Sep 2020)

I have a Kalkoff. Happy with it. Quick look at the Raleigh very nice. Only thing I put high up is an easily removed battery to make it more difficult to steal and to store indoors. Not supposed to be good to leave it on the bike all the time. No doubt the experts will be more helpful.


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## CXRAndy (10 Sep 2020)

Short rides a city bike would be fine. 

A little left field is the fully integrated lights, bell etc

VanMoof


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## Drago (10 Sep 2020)

If you're using it on tarmac then there is no advantage to mid drive over rear hub drive. Indeed, on road it gives a slight weight disadvantage for no corresponding benefit.


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## samsbike (10 Sep 2020)

In that case the whoosh appear better value with the options of bigger batteries etc


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## samsbike (10 Sep 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Short rides a city bike would be fine.
> 
> A little left field is the fully integrated lights, bell etc
> 
> VanMoof


I think he wants to be able to commute 25 miles round trip every day.


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## CXRAndy (10 Sep 2020)

Is his commute hilly or flat? A bigger battery 500Wh or bigger will be better for winter usage, be able to keep the charge level in optimal range 20-90%.

If its their only transport, it really needs guards decent lights and rack mounts. 

Security is another consideration being their only transport. Van Moof has integration with phone app with gps. a built in kick lock. An added D lock to something solid will dissuade most thieves


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## samsbike (11 Sep 2020)

The commute is a bit lumpy and west to east, so coming home is slightly uphill (with some short, sharp inclines and a headwind).

I am inclined to suggest a bigger battery and as much power as possible.

Definitely am advocating lights, racks and guards. Its the Whisper I am angling towards simply because of the bigger battery option and will allow longer days out in the summer.

Also I cant decide what to tell him hub v mid drive. Punctures is much simpler on the mid drive but there is a cost premium involved in that.


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## Pale Rider (11 Sep 2020)

samsbike said:


> Punctures is much simpler on the mid drive



You got that right.

The bad old days of hard wired motor wheels are now gone - most hub bikes have an inline plug to allow wheel removal.

However, quite a few have cables which are cable tied to the frame on the motor side of the plug.

Wheel removal means having a means of snipping a cable tie, and having a means of tidying the cable to the frame afterwards, to prevent the cable being caught by the spokes on restart.

None of which is a huge deal for a competent fettler, but might be a bit much for a new ebiker stranded beside the road with his first flat.

The wheel is much heavier to manhandle/refit to the bike - not a problem for most of us, but could be for some.

Nothing to do with punctures, but rear hub motor wheels still tend to snap their (non-standard length) spokes.

That can be a faff in terms of time off the road.

Overall, a crank drive bike is a better prospect for reliable and hassle free cycling.


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## samsbike (11 Sep 2020)

Cheers PR. I am going to recommend the whisper - as it has crank drive, the larger battery and all the gubbins.

However, I am not sure what the motor is and whether a Bosch or Shimano is better. 

there is also the Raleigh Motus on sale at around £2.2k but only has a 500W battery, which is better than the majority of the 400W efforts. It also has the active line plus bosch motor so the 50Nm should be slightly better.


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## Pale Rider (11 Sep 2020)

samsbike said:


> Cheers PR. I am going to recommend the whisper - as it has crank drive, the larger battery and all the gubbins.
> 
> However, I am not sure what the motor is and whether a Bosch or Shimano is better.
> 
> there is also the Raleigh Motus on sale at around £2.2k but only has a 500W battery, which is better than the majority of the 400W efforts. It also has the active line plus bosch motor so the 50Nm should be slightly better.



I think the Wisper crank is a Bafang, possibly their Max Drive which is aimed at original equipment fitting.

The Bafang might be the pokiest, but my view is there isn't a great deal of difference between any of the road legal motors - crank or hub.

In any event, most riders run their motor at a lower setting to get a realistic range, so what it does fully wound up is largely irrelevant.

The power delivery of the Bosch is silky smooth and widely regarded as the best available.

In the real world that's more of a benefit than a tiny bit of outright grunt.


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## samsbike (11 Sep 2020)

I have been checking out a few more, and the Raleigh range is reduced at the moment ever so slightly

this is what I am liking at the moment

https://www.pureelectric.com/collec...crossbar-derailleur-hybrid-electric-bike-2020


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## Phaeton (11 Sep 2020)

If you do lean towards the Whisper make sure he/you ride one first, I bought my wife a Freego Hawk in the same style, it felt like the handle bars weren't connected to the rest of the bike, horrible horrible ride


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## samsbike (11 Sep 2020)

I am going to let him decide but have read so much positive feedback on Ralieghs and that I have one as well, am going to suggest the bike I linked above.

However I dont understand why

https://www.pureelectric.com/collec...=Skimlinks&utm_medium=awin&utm_campaign=78888


is so much more than 

https://www.cube.eu/en/2020/e-bikes...cube-acid-hybrid-one-500-29-bluenorange-2020/


The difference is enough to buy the racks, guards and lights


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## Phaeton (11 Sep 2020)

samsbike said:


> I am going to let him decide but have read so much positive feedback on Ralieghs and that I have one as well, am going to suggest the bike I linked above.
> 
> However I dont understand why
> 
> ...


I bought the Cube for just over £1600 from leisure bikes


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## CXRAndy (11 Sep 2020)

I dont know if there any bikes in the price range which incorporates the 2020 Bosch performance line CX. This has 85Nm of torque, compared to their 50/65Nm units. The difference would be substantial in climbing feel


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## Pale Rider (11 Sep 2020)

samsbike said:


> I am going to let him decide but have read so much positive feedback on Ralieghs and that I have one as well, am going to suggest the bike I linked above.
> 
> However I dont understand why
> 
> ...



The Cube has the original shaped battery under a plastic cover.

The Raleigh has the theoretically more desirable Powertube battery.

I say theoretically because the Powertube integrates more seamlessly into the frame, but is not so convenient to handle.

Depends if the user wants to remove the battery often for charging or security reasons.

It's also easier to carry one of the older style batteries as a spare - the Powertube is longer so won't fit easily into a trunk bag or medium sized pannier.

A friend has the Cube.

The frame coloured plastic cover is neat enough.



CXRAndy said:


> I dont know if there any bikes in the price range which incorporates the 2020 Bosch performance line CX. This has 85Nm of torque, compared to their 50/65Nm units. The difference would be substantial in climbing feel



I've not ridden the latest CX motor, but the one I have - 75Nm in theory - is not especially more pokey than my original 2009 Bosch Classic crank drive.

No harm in buying a more powerfully rated motor, but as I said earlier, most riders use the bike on one of the lower power settings to get range.

Which in turn makes me wonder if a few extra quoted Nm of torque is worth worrying about when it comes to bike selection.

I've ridden a lot of Bosch bikes, all the motors deliver their power and torque with a class leading smoothness.

As the miles rack up, that's far more worth having than largely theoretical numbers on paper delivered on a setting you rarely use.


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## Drago (15 Sep 2020)

Although torque is slightly irrelevant as on a geared motor as the gearing itself acts as a torque multiplier - the torque measured at the tyre will be completely different to at-the-motor measurements because of gearing, and that in turn will also differ by wheel size. It won't compensate for an utterly weedy motor, but differences of 10 or 15NM at the motor may be nil at the tyre. This is why it is a good idea to ride the machine first, and not rely on a spec sheet alone to make buying decisions.

As it happens 60NM has little difficulty assisting all 118kg of me up the steepest incline once it's been through the gearing.


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## Pale Rider (15 Sep 2020)

Drago said:


> Although torque is slightly irrelevant as on a geared motor as the gearing itself acts as a torque multiplier - the torque measured at the tyre will be completely different to at-the-motor measurements because of gearing, and that in turn will also differ by wheel size. It won't compensate for an utterly weedy motor, but differences of 10 or 15NM at the motor may be nil at the tyre. This is why it is a good idea to ride the machine first, and not rely on a spec sheet alone to make buying decisions.
> 
> As it happens 60NM has little difficulty assisting all 118kg of me up the steepest incline once it's been through the gearing.



Quite so - torque figures need to be treated with caution.

A crank drive will be quoted at between 70-90Nm.

A hub motor will be quoted at between 40-50Nm.

But both pull the rider up a hill in approximately the same way.

There are technical reasons for the difference in figures - torque at the crank/torque at the wheel - but rider experience is all that matters.

As another example, the Suntour hub motor on the Carrera (50Nm) felt more pokey to me than my Bosch crank drive (75Nm).

If you went by torque figures alone you would never buy a hub motor. which is daft because there are plenty of good reasons for doing so.


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