# Lorry drivers the best road users, cyclists the worst, says haulage firm boss



## Rooster1 (27 Apr 2015)

Director of Devon HGV operator lashes out at cyclists - but his own firm has history of rule-breaking.

http://road.cc/content/news/149301-...d-users-cyclists-worst-says-haulage-firm-boss

I can't wait to spot one of their trucks, it's good to know I will be safe.


http://www.williamchockin.co.uk/index.html


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

Where do I fit in with his ratings then, I wonder, as a lorry driving cyclist? 
The truth is, there are good and bad of both.


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## Racing roadkill (27 Apr 2015)

There are good truck drivers, there are not so good truck drivers, there are good cyclists, there are not so good cyclists. It's nice to see that someone in the position of responsibility of this guy, has such a balanced outlook.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

http://commercial-motor.archive.net...pril-2001/14/drivers-fined-for-flouting-rules



> Drivers working for Barnstaple, Devon-based William C Hockin Transport falsified tachograph records, flouted hours rules and pulled fuses on their tachos, a court has heard.
> 
> When the 19 drivers admitted the offences in a series of hearings before Exeter magistrates they were ordered to pay fines and costs totalling £1850. Another of the company's drivers has been sent to Crown Court for sentencing. Prosecuting for the Vehicle Inspectorate, Tony Ostrin said that the company operated 30 vehicles on multidrop deliveries.
> 
> ...


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## Alex H (27 Apr 2015)

He's only slightly biased, being the owner of a transport firm , but using 14 year old statistics is a bit desperate.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

You can look at last year if you like, when more than four thousand HGV drivers received fines for fiddling their tachos, lying about hours worked and lying to cover up criminality.

http://www.downton.co.uk/increase-i...chograph-convictions-says-transport-minister/


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## spen666 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> You can look at last year if you like, when more than four thousand HGV drivers received fines for fiddling their tachos, lying about hours worked and lying to cover up criminality.
> 
> http://www.downton.co.uk/increase-i...chograph-convictions-says-transport-minister/


 all 4000 worked for his company?

Or are you just randomly quoting irrelevant statistics?


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## Globalti (27 Apr 2015)

I've been meaning to ask on here recently: is there a hierarchy of HGV drivers? For example are drivers for nice clean aerodynamic delivery trucks for Eddy Stobart or Marks & Spencer generally cleverer than, say, drivers of refuse trucks and tipper trucks? Are tipper truck drivers particularly low in experience and less bright, and does this explain why tipper trucks are so often the killers of cyclists on road junctions? 

I post as someone who, at the age of 22, was sent by an industrial staff bureau to drive "vans" and when I turned up at the depot for work discovered that the vans were actually 3 ton trucks with air brakes, perfectly legal to drive on my ordinary licence. The foreman groaned and said "you'll smash it up within the first week!" Luckily I didn't although I had several near misses and found it the most exhausting job I've ever done. I don't mind admitting that in all my early van-driving jobs I drove bady and carelessly because I felt it was my right and I was on an important and urgent mission. Are tipper truck drivers similarly cavalier about safety or is there something inherently more dangerous about a tipper? I know that in the Yorkshire Dales, quarry tipper trucks are driven extremely fast.


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## _aD (27 Apr 2015)

Globalti said:


> Are tipper truck drivers similarly cavalier about safety or is there something inherently more dangerous about a tipper? I know that in the Yorkshire Dales, quarry tipper trucks are driven extremely fast.


I'll take any excuse to link to the Mining Mayhem blog.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Some are worse than others, but criminality is rife among the road users Hocking claims are "the best" road users. They also resist any and every attempt to make them more accountable and have a deeply offensive habit of engaging in the same grubby victim-blaming career criminal Hocking spouts.


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## subaqua (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Some are worse than others, but criminality is rife among the road users Hocking claims are "the best" road users. They also resist any and every attempt to make them more accountable and have a deeply offensive habit of engaging in the same grubby victim-blaming career criminal Hocking spouts.



you really are one angry little man aren't you !

i do love the sweeping generalistations you come out with.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

> In the first two months of a police clampdown on the most dangerous construction vehicles, 622 out of the 821 lorries stopped by officers failed to comply with the existing safety rules. Only 32 trucks had mirrors and safety equipment, including bars to prevent cyclists being crushed beneath the wheels, as required by law.
> 
> Just 24 per cent of vehicles complied with regulations covering maintenance, how loads are carried, insurance and how long drivers have been on the road. Officers fined 243 lorry drivers for operating without a licence or working long hours, or for driving with insecure loads, broken lights or running a truck that was in poor condition. Police seized 14 lorries, including an 18-tonne scaffolding lorry whose driver was uninsured and driving without a proper licence, as well as having various mechanical defects on the vehicle.



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3966743.ece

You dispute these findings? It is not a generalisation to state that criminality is rife among lorry drivers when most of them break the law.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3966743.ece
> 
> You dispute these findings? It is not a generalisation to state that criminality is rife among lorry drivers when most of them break the law.


Produce similar figures for bus & coach drivers as well as indivudual fleet operators.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

classic33 said:


> Produce similar figures for bus & coach drivers as well as indivudual fleet operators.



What have they to do with Hocking's lies? Hocking claimed lorry drivers are "the best" road user. He's a criminal, his employees are criminals and the industry he represents is infested with a rampant criminality unmatched by any other road user.


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## mr messy (27 Apr 2015)

Globalti said:


> I've been meaning to ask on here recently: is there a hierarchy of HGV drivers? For example are drivers for nice clean aerodynamic delivery trucks for Eddy Stobart or Marks & Spencer generally cleverer than, say, drivers of refuse trucks and tipper trucks? Are tipper truck drivers particularly low in experience and less bright, and does this explain why tipper trucks are so often the killers of cyclists on road junctions?
> 
> I post as someone who, at the age of 22, was sent by an industrial staff bureau to drive "vans" and when I turned up at the depot for work discovered that the vans were actually 3 ton trucks with air brakes, perfectly legal to drive on my ordinary licence. The foreman groaned and said "you'll smash it up within the first week!" Luckily I didn't although I had several near misses and found it the most exhausting job I've ever done. I don't mind admitting that in all my early van-driving jobs I drove bady and carelessly because I felt it was my right and I was on an important and urgent mission. Are tipper truck drivers similarly cavalier about safety or is there something inherently more dangerous about a tipper? I know that in the Yorkshire Dales, quarry tipper trucks are driven extremely fast.


Think alot of tipper drivers are paid by the load, therefore more loads equals more pay.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> What have they to do with Hocking's lies? Hocking claimed lorry drivers are "the best" road user. He's a criminal, his employees are criminals and the industry he represents is infested with a rampant criminality unmatched by any other road user.


Generalisation by type of vehicle in use. By both of us.
One lot hits the headlines for such practices, the other doesn't. On here which is the greater complained/moaned about?


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Start a thread on bus drivers if you like, they have nothing to do with the thread.


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## Origamist (27 Apr 2015)

"HGV drivers are the best users of the road – cyclists are the worst."

That's a nuanced observation; almost on par with:

You smell!
No, you smell!
Whoever smelt it, dealt it...
Whoever denied it, supplied it.

Crappy click-bait for a local rag...Although, given his previous infractions, you'd thought he would have kept his gob shut..


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

He's kind of made himself a hostage to fortune. The next time one of the criminals he employs makes a mistake by accidentally scribbling on the tacho to falsify records his smug complacency will rebound on him.


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## spen666 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> What have they to do with Hocking's lies? Hocking claimed lorry drivers are "the best" road user. He's a criminal, his employees are criminals and the industry he represents is infested with a rampant criminality unmatched by any other road user.


 

Is this mentality of yours any different from those who say all blacks are drug dealers or all travellers are thieving scum?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3966743.ece
> 
> You dispute these findings? It is not a generalisation to state that criminality is rife among lorry drivers when most of them break the law.



I'm trying hard not to bite, but WTF.....
According to the linked article "two thirds of lorries were defective OR illegal". Now you are obviously one who takes statistics at face value. Me on the other hand, I take them with a pinch of salt. Perhaps because I spent 20 years in public service and got used to seeing "statistics" being massaged to suit the occasion. So yes, I DO dispute the figures.
There are motoring offences, and there are crimes. For instance, I drove a lorry which strictly speaking was not legally compliant last week. The height indicator in the cab was set at 15'05", yet I knew fine well that the trailer I was pulling was only 15'02" high. Hands up; I couldn't be bothered changing it for the short distance I was driving because I knew there were no low bridges on my route and I knew the height without needing a wee sign in the cab to tell me.
Technically illegal and no doubt would count as such in any statistics; but does that make me a criminal?

I can assure you that as an agency driver and working with various different companies, I see none of the rife criminality among drivers which you seem to believe is the norm. You really need to get a grip on reality.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> There are motoring offences, and there are crimes. .



Speeding is a criminal offence.

Most company drivers admit speeding.

Try again.


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2015)

A friend was a cycle trainer with one of the big London Cyle Training cooperative groups - and said very positive things about most HGV drivers and was VERY critical of the general standard of cycling and cyclist behaviour in London


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> I see none of the rife criminality among drivers which you seem to believe is the norm.



Nope, the results of police investigations demonstrate the rife criminality.

What were the results of your investigations into the medical history of the drivers you mention, their driving convictions, fiddled tachos, insurance cover?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> He's kind of made himself a hostage to fortune. The next time one of the criminals he employs makes a mistake by accidentally scribbling on the tacho to falsify records his smug complacency will rebound on him.


You're a bit behind the times with your knowledge of tachographs, as well as your attitudes! I haven't driven a lorry with paper tachograph charts for years. Digital tachographs have been in use for a long time now, with each individual driver having a card issued by the DVLA. Much harder to get away with any naughtiness now - and who would want to? Legal hours are long enough (up to 90 hours duty time per week) without adding to them.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

PK99 said:


> A friend was a cycle trainer with one of the big London Cyle Training cooperative groups



What are they?


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> Much harder to get away with any naughtiness now



Then what's your explanation for the four thousand convictions for fiddled tachos last year alone?


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## Globalti (27 Apr 2015)

On the whole I would agree with PK99 above - I see very few cyclists actually obeying the rules of the road and I don't ride with a club for the reason that some cyclists' aggression towards drivers embarrasses me.


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## Dan B (27 Apr 2015)

subaqua said:


> i do love the sweeping generalistations you come out with.


All of them?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Then what's your explanation for the four thousand convictions for fiddled tachos last year alone?


Fiddled? Or infringements? Infringements are easy to acquire, for instance trying to find safe parking when you have run out of time thanks to some fork lift driver keeping you waiting past your legal time. If it's 4000 infringements, I would say that's a very good record for an industry with so many vehicles on the road.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> Fiddled? Or infringements? Infringements are easy to acquire, for instance trying to find safe parking when you have run out of time thanks to some fork lift driver keeping you waiting past your legal time. If it's 4000 infringements, I would say that's a very good record for an industry with so many vehicles on the road.



How often do you break the law in that way?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> How often do you break the law in that way?


Personally; never . But I can appreciate how easily it can happen.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

So the operators of the most dangerous vehicles on the road are predominantly criminals, and you reckon that's a "very good record?"


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## Phil Fouracre (27 Apr 2015)

Oh, there's nowt like a good sweeping generalisation, almost as good as a Daily Mail stereotype


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Were they convictions or FPNs?


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

[QUOTE 3665700, member: 9609"]I
A mate got a ticket for not having a "No Smoking" sign in his cab - another lorry driving super criminal.
[/QUOTE]

Ah. That was a FPN:

http://www.out-law.com/en/topics/regulatory/health--safety/the-smoking-ban-and-company-vehicles/

So, not remotely the same. Try again.


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Were they convictions or FPNs?


Does that make a difference to whoever made up your "statistics"?


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Which statistics are you disputing? FPNs don't constitute criminal offences. Didn't you know this?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Which statistics are you disputing? FPNs don't constitute criminal offences. Didn't you know this?


In Scotland, I am led to believe that the Police now issue FPN's for such things as a Breach of the Peace, which IS a criminal offence.
Therefore I would not be surprised if your statistician decided to lump in FPN's with other criminal offences in order to come up with the "two thirds" of lorry drivers were illegal headline. It sounds so much more sensational than "2% of lorry drivers were charged with criminal offences, while another 64% were issued with FPN's, mainly for trivial crap".


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> Does that make a difference to whoever made up your "statistics"?





Brandane said:


> I am led to believe .....
> 
> I would not be surprised ...



Weak.


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Weak.


Beaten.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

So your evidence that the statistics are dishonest is?


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## subaqua (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> So your evidence that the statistics are dishonest is?



and yours that they are true ?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> So your evidence that the statistics are dishonest is?


96.3% of statistics are dishonest.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

subaqua said:


> and yours that they are true ?



Hansard:

There were more convictions for drivers’ hours and tachograph offences in 2013-14 than in the previous year, according to transport minister Claire Perry. Despite the increases in convictions, the total number of trucks checked for drivers’ hours offences in DVSA roadside checks actually dropped from 80,796 in 2012-13 to 77,978 in 2013-14, Perry also revealed.

http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-news/drivers-hours-and-tachograph-convictions-up-says-perry


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## subaqua (27 Apr 2015)

oh FFS spinners 

offences include silly stuff like chevron . but you keep heading to the stroke you so obviously want


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

subaqua said:


> oh FFS spinners
> 
> offences include silly stuff like chevron . but you keep heading to the stroke you so obviously want



You didn't read the link did you?


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Hansard:
> 
> There were more convictions for drivers’ hours and tachograph offences in 2013-14 than in the previous year, according to transport minister Claire Perry. Despite the increases in convictions, the total number of trucks checked for drivers’ hours offences in DVSA roadside checks actually dropped from 80,796 in 2012-13 to 77,978 in 2013-14, Perry also revealed.
> 
> http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-news/drivers-hours-and-tachograph-convictions-up-says-perry


Ahh; so they were infringements, rather than the "fiddling" impression you tried to portray in a previous post. There is a huge difference.
Infringements can easily be down to user error rather than any attempt at fiddling. Just a final example.... Driver stops for the night and forgets to change the mode switch on his tachograph from "other work" (i.e. any duties related to work apart from actual driving) to "rest". He takes his required break of 11 hours (or 9 hrs twice per week) and then wakes up in the morning to find that technically he has been working all night! He should take a paper print out from the tachograph and endorse it with notes on what has happened. VOSA may or may not accept this. However the driver must keep the print out as he can be penalised up to 28 days after the infringement if checked by VOSA or Police. If he has lost the print out ..... he gets it in the neck.
Now @glenn forger , try and chill out a bit about HGV drivers. We aren't all criminal psychopaths; just regular guys trying to do a job. The odd bad apple might appear now and again like any other profession. You seem to have a problem bordering on obsession with us. Get over it, for your own sake.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> We aren't all criminal psychopaths



If the only way you can argue your case is by lying about what I've said you don't have much.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> Ahh; so they were infringements, rather than the "fiddling" impression you tried to portray in a previous post. .



Nope, they were criminal acts. So 5% of the drivers stopped had broken the law, two thirds of the vehicles they drive were breaking the law and the majority of drivers admit breaking the law with regard to speeding. In their own words.


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If the only way you can argue your case is by lying about what I've said you don't have much.


 NUUUUURSE!!


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

If you argue against a position nobody's taken, would you describe your argument as honest?


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If you argue against a position nobody's taken, would you describe your argument as honest?


Would that make it dishonest?


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

classic33 said:


> Would that make it dishonest?



You MUSTN'T ever punch kittens, I don't care if they annoy you.


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If you argue against a position nobody's taken, would you describe your argument as honest?



I refer you to post #6, which you made (my argument being that your position is that drivers are fiddling their tachos, rather than the lesser offence of infringements):



glenn forger said:


> You can look at last year if you like, when more than four thousand HGV drivers received fines for fiddling their tachos, lying about hours worked and lying to cover up criminality.
> 
> http://www.downton.co.uk/increase-in-drivers-hours-and-tachograph-convictions-says-transport-minister/



Now if you'll excuse me, I will be off. You are from past experience, incapable of reasoning with. Also, I have to drive a lorry in the morning so I need to make sure and get my statutory rest period of 9 hours. I wouldn't like to become one of your precious statistics.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> I refer you to post #6, which you made:
> 
> 
> 
> Now if you'll excuse me, I will be off. You are from past experience, incapable of reasoning with. Also, I have to drive a lorry in the morning so I need to make sure and get my statutory rest period of 9 hours. I wouldn't like to become one of your precious statistics.



Apology accepted. Don't you dare misquote me again.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> You MUSTN'T ever punch kittens, I don't care if they annoy you.


Two simple questions asked that you won't answer.


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## subaqua (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> I know, you keep saying "bollocks".
> 
> I keep asking what part you disagree with.
> 
> ...



because if you will actually look and interpret statistics correctly you will see a VAST difference between incorrect reflectors or chevrons and driving a lorry with a bald tyre
a broken reflector or a busted light on a lorry is , whilst breaking the law, not going to endanger the life of another road user .

i got a FPN on the train today , after all the delays from waterloo as the ticket i had meant i should only travel on a super off peak train i broke the law. it isnt proper fare evasion and the guard conductor probably had had a crap day and wasn't going to listen to reason. its in that orrible grey area. I look forward to SW Trains response though as i have a fair idea ther is an apology and a donation to the railway benevolent fund

but you keep on letting us all laugh at you , its becoming entertaining

i await the next line about cycles not killing or hurting as many as lorries. 

have a google for safety spectrum 

less safe, more safe, unsafe


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

The convictions weren't for chevrons. Nor were they anything to do with tyres, reflectors or lights.

They were tachograph offences. It's a shame you didn't bother to read the link.

So, the lorry drivers who admitted speeding-you reckon they're lying about breaking the law?


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## subaqua (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> The convictions weren't for chevrons. Nor were they anything to do with tyres, reflectors or lights.
> 
> They were tachograph offences. It's a shame you didn't bother to read the link.
> 
> So, the lorry drivers who admitted speeding-you reckon they're lying about breaking the law?


 no . and they coughed. 

but keep on digging . you might get out of your own hole


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

So you admit the statistics are accurate?


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> the industry he represents is infested with a rampant criminality unmatched by any other road user.


We have a private cab company here that, allegedly, is a money recycling outfit.
No doubt, there are other road users locally to you that could be called criminals


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> We have a private cab company here that, allegedly, is a money recycling outfit.
> No doubt, there are other road users locally to you that could be called criminals


Local private hire & taxi company caught using illegal diesel. Driver's are always parked away from the premises when checks are being made of vehicles and drivers.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> It sounds so much more sensational than "2% of lorry drivers were charged with criminal offences, while another 64% were issued with FPN's, mainly for trivial crap".



Good job nobody's inventing statistics.


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## Dan B (27 Apr 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> We have a private cab company here that, allegedly, is a money recycling outfit.
> No doubt, there are other road users locally to you that could be called criminals


There are some drug dealers round us that ride MTBs, that the kind of thing you're thinking of?


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> There are some drug dealers round us that ride MTBs, that the kind of thing you're thinking of?


Oh, actually forgot about them, there's a local one here too


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

PK99 said:


> A friend was a cycle trainer with one of the big London Cyle Training cooperative groups



There's no such outfit as London Cycle Training.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

*Caretakers have emerged as among the UK’s safest drivers according to new research, but mechanics are among the worst.*
By John Evans Published *04 June 2014*
http://www.driving.co.uk/news/top-10-worst-and-safest-drivers-by-profession/


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## summerdays (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> There's no such outfit as London Cycle Training.


If you read his post it says "*with one of*"


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

summerdays said:


> If you read his post it says "*with one of*"



If you read his post he's capitalised it.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

I'm sure he'll name it in a minute.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If you read his post he's capitalised it.


Take out London first in your search, that's the location.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

You've found them! Brilliant! Who are they?


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> You've found them! Brilliant! Who are they?


Follow the instructions given!


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Cy...sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Nothing.

I bet pk99 will be here any minute now to make matters clear. Any time now.


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

Simple instruction, I thought.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Maybe you could just name them? I can't imagine why you're unable to.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

Try 85%

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ut-of-10-lorry-drivers-break-speed-limit.html


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## classic33 (27 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Maybe you could just name them? I can't imagine why you're unable to.


You wanted them. Seek and ye shall find, don't expect others to do the work for you.


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## glenn forger (27 Apr 2015)

PK99 said:


> A friend was a cycle trainer with one of the big London Cyle Training cooperative groups - and said very positive things about most HGV drivers and was VERY critical of the general standard of cycling and cyclist behaviour in London



Did you explain to her that the lorry driver who killed cyclist Catriona Patel was drunk and chatting on a mobile?

The lorry driver who killed Eilidh Cairns had faulty eyesight (the police didn't even bother to discover this until the same driver killed another woman.)

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Brian Dorling turned across his path.

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Svetlana Tereschenko was in an unsafe lorry, failing to indicate and chatting on a mobile. The police decided to charge him with..nothing.

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Deep Lee failed to notice her and smashed into her from behind.

The lorry driver that killed cyclist Andrew McNicoll failed to notice him and side swiped him.

The lorry driver that killed cyclist Daniel Cox was in a truck which did not have the correct mirrors and whose driver had pulled into the ASL on a red light and was indicating in the opposite direction to which he turned?


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## slowmotion (28 Apr 2015)

Per mile driven, do lorry drivers attract a greater number of driving convictions than car drivers, motorcyclists or bike riders?

Anybody know?


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

slowmotion said:


> Per mile driven, do lorry drivers attract a greater number of driving convictions than car drivers, motorcyclists or bike riders?
> 
> Anybody know?



47% of cars exceeded a 30mph speed limit in 2011, while 49% went faster than 70mph on a motorway. The proportions of motorcyclists breaking the same speed limits were similar, at 50% and 49% respectively.

The figures for articulated heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) were considerable higher, with 71% exceeding the single carriageway 40mph limit and more than four in five breaking the 50mph limit on dual carriageways.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/28/road-deaths-great-britain-data


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> 47% of cars exceeded a 30mph speed limit in 2011, while 49% went faster than 70mph on a motorway. The proportions of motorcyclists breaking the same speed limits were similar, at 50% and 49% respectively.
> 
> The figures for articulated heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) were considerable higher, with 71% exceeding the single carriageway 40mph limit and more than four in five breaking the 50mph limit on dual carriageways.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/28/road-deaths-great-britain-data


Sorry you ruled every other type of vehicle out of this, bar cyclists & lorries. Cars, motorcyclists cannot be included, by your own rule.


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## pauldavid (28 Apr 2015)

The care home staff obviously went in to sedate Glenn at 00:31 looking at the last post timings.

Let's hope they gave him enough to hold him under for a good 12 hours at least, I think we all need the rest.

daffodil


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## ufkacbln (28 Apr 2015)

slowmotion said:


> Per mile driven, do lorry drivers attract a greater number of driving convictions than car drivers, motorcyclists or bike riders?
> 
> Anybody know?



P@ul Smith of S@fespeed once "proved" that cyclist were the most dangerous per mile


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> P@ul Smith of S@fespeed once "proved" that cyclist were the most dangerous per mile



In terms of danger to peds, so did The Times, with some random stats:

http://road.cc/content/news/109269-are-drivers-and-cyclists-just-dangerous-pedestrians


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## Tanis8472 (28 Apr 2015)

Will this should reduce "convictions"

https://movingon.blog.gov.uk/reminder-hgv-speed-limit-changes-in-england-and-wales/


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

"convictions"?

Why don't you think speeding fines are proper convictions?


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## Cyclist33 (28 Apr 2015)

classic33 said:


> *Caretakers have emerged as among the UK’s safest drivers according to new research, but mechanics are among the worst.*
> By John Evans Published *04 June 2014*
> http://www.driving.co.uk/news/top-10-worst-and-safest-drivers-by-profession/



Surely, undertakers..?


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## Cyclist33 (28 Apr 2015)

classic33 said:


> Sorry you ruled every other type of vehicle out of this, bar cyclists & lorries. Cars, motorcyclists cannot be included, by your own rule.



He was responding to slowmotion's question, I'm surprised you can't see that.


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## Tanis8472 (28 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> "convictions"?
> 
> Why don't you think speeding fines are proper convictions?



Really???


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

I wondered why you put convictions in quote marks.


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

Cyclist33 said:


> He was responding to slowmotion's question, I'm surprised you can't see that.


Incorrect, he also ruled out coach & bus drivers.


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## Cyclist33 (28 Apr 2015)

classic33 said:


> Incorrect, he also ruled out coach & bus drivers.



Whatever. Read slowmotion's question. Read glennforger's reply. There is only mention of what is asked about. You lot do seem to victimise and get personal a lot with glenn, I must say.


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## subaqua (28 Apr 2015)

Cyclist33 said:


> Whatever. Read slowmotion's question. Read glennforger's reply. There is only mention of what is asked about. You lot do seem to victimise and get personal a lot with glenn, I must say.



LOL


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

Cyclist33 said:


> Whatever. Read slowmotion's question. Read glennforger's reply. There is only mention of what is asked about. You lot do seem to victimise and get personal a lot with glenn, I must say.


No to both. There are more types of vehicle on the roads than lorries and cyclist.
The whatever taken as meaning you never saw his response to my earlier valid question.


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

You demanded I provide the KSI rates for buses.

When I asked you to name the cycling Co Op worker who slags off cyclists you demanded I search myself. Sauce for the goose old boy.


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> You demanded I provide the KSI rates for buses.
> 
> When I asked you to name the cycling Co Op worker who slags off cyclists you demanded I search myself. Sauce for the goose old boy.


I asked, never demanded, earlier. You said no. Also that wasn't the question asked. By either myself or yourself.

Fact before fiction please.


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

You asked rudely, slowmotion asked politely. He got an answer, you didn't. Simples!


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

Separate fact from fiction then.


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

When people imply that riders are the agents of their own demise it's fair to ask about their motives. In Hocking's case he has a history of sending unsafe drivers out on the roads. Nineteen times. So, it would be in his interest to pretend the roads are filled with suicidal cyclists. Let's him off the hook, see?


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2015)

I did actually mean your fact. You've made a statement that wasn't true, turned it into fiction.


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

Tanis8472 said:


> Will this should reduce "convictions"
> 
> https://movingon.blog.gov.uk/reminder-hgv-speed-limit-changes-in-england-and-wales/



"Convictions"? Why the quote marks? There's a lot of "Post-and runners" on this thread.


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## Tanis8472 (28 Apr 2015)

Because some are not convictions. Others are.
Easier than putting convictions, infractions or other such words.
It was to encompass all possible variations of "Rules of the road", laws and regulations.


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## benb (28 Apr 2015)

Origamist said:


> "HGV drivers are the best users of the road – cyclists are the worst."
> 
> That's a nuanced observation; almost on par with:
> 
> ...



Unfortunately for you, whoever said the rhyme did the crime.


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## Brandane (28 Apr 2015)

Cyclist33 said:


> Whatever. Read slowmotion's question. Read glennforger's reply. There is only mention of what is asked about. You lot do seem to victimise and get personal a lot with glenn, I must say.


Perhaps if he used the quote facility, things would be clearer as to which post he is replying to. The problem being that he gets involved in discussions from so many different angles, that things get confusing.

PS.... I got all the way from Greenock to Dundee and back today driving an HGV without breaking the law. 25 tonnes of paper for D.C. Thomson just so that people can read the Beano/Dandy and Sunday Post - if they are still in circulation.
I must have an innocent face because the Police directed me into a VOSA checkpoint just south of Dundee; then the VOSA inspector kindly waved me straight through and back onto the A90.


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## Dan B (28 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> PS.... I got all the way from Greenock to Dundee and back today driving an HGV without breaking the law


Well done!


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

Deserves a medal I reckon.


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## PK99 (7 May 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If you read his post he's capitalised it.



Spoke to my friend today the organisation was Cycle Training UK, a co-op (which, btw, employs instructors on Zero Hours contracts)
@glenn forger may care to note the above and might even care to apologise for implying I was lying


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## Drago (7 May 2015)

You got more chance of both of Ed Milibands eyes pointing in the same direction.


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