# Huge FTP increase



## Chris432626 (12 Nov 2013)

Actually, not.
Slightly peeved that the hard work I've put in on the turbo / trainer road over the last month has given me an FTP increase of.......2!


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## Pedrosanchezo (12 Nov 2013)

Stick with it and you will see gains over a 3-6 month period. My FTP went from 230 to 295 from October 2012 - March 2013. This was using a build and a base build structure.

Since then i took a break from the intensity of TR/turbo and done 95% of my riding outdoors - PB'ing most things in the process. Bearing that in mind i have just started up again on Trainerroad, as the weather has been darker and crapper, and i had to drop my FTP to 280 - a drop of 15. I simply wasn't used to the intensity, i was a mess after starting the 40k TT program. It takes several months to get back into it IMO.

I think the key to big gains is to proper bury yourself into the sessions. They properly hurt but the result is worth it.

Remember to think recovery meal/shakes after workouts too so that you are ready for the next day.


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## Rob3rt (12 Nov 2013)

Chris432626 said:


> Actually, not.
> Slightly peeved that the hard work I've put in on the turbo / trainer road over the last month has given me an FTP increase of.......2!



It takes time... maybe you need to adjust your expectations and/or training plan.


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## machew (13 Nov 2013)

I find that opening port 20, and 21 has a makes my FTP better


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## VamP (13 Nov 2013)

It doesn't increase linearly either. A month is a really short amount of time, and some months you go forwards, others you go backwards. Best not to worry about the FTP as such too much, and look at seasonal increases if you are looking at making training plan adjustments.

This season I have gone from 260 to 301, but there have been months where there was no increase, or I tested below expectation. Structure your plan well, carry it out diligently and most importantly consistently, and have faith the gains will come.


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## Rob3rt (13 Nov 2013)

Quite frankly a 2W variation could be the accuracy of a proper power meter. A current Quarq has a specified accuracy of +-1.5%, So at a rather puny 135W you can expect the sort of variance you are seeing.

You are using trainer road where the error could be absolutely huge compared to a proper power meter.


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## VamP (13 Nov 2013)

How does Trainer Road measure power?


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## Rob3rt (13 Nov 2013)

VamP said:


> How does Trainer Road measure power?



Uses speed as a proxy for power using user submitted calibration curves I believe (transmits speed data to your pc using an ANT+ dongle and converts to power in software). So it depends on loads of things, such as turbo trainer type, how good the calibration curve is, you setting up the same every time, and also setting up the same as person who obtained the calibration curve etc.


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## VamP (13 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Uses speed as a proxy for power using user submitted calibration curves I believe (transmits speed data to your pc using an ANT+ dongle and converts to power in software). So it depends on loads of things, such as turbo trainer type, how good the calibration curve is, you setting up the same every time, and also setting up the same as person who obtained the calibration curve etc.


 
The potential for accuracy is there! Somewhere


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## Rob3rt (13 Nov 2013)

I am not 100% on the origin of the calibration curves, I think user submitted, but maybe the site owners have slowly collected them using a standardised method. Maybe you can obtain and enter your own, but then there would be no point, as this would indicate you have a power meter anyway  I suppose you could borrow a PM, obtain a decent curve then return it and use your curve.

Ultimately as long as it is repeatable it is useful. But then again, many turbo trainers don;t have particularly stable speed vs power relationships and you need to be pretty thorough with how you set things up to maintain repeatability.


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## Pedrosanchezo (13 Nov 2013)

Trainerroad have a long list of tested turbos which give them the data required to measure power. 

Several reviews/tests have showed the power data to be very close to power meters, i think it was within 5% on average. This isn't the overly important part though, consistent progress is. 

The important part is that you keep the tyre pressure the same for each session. Then from there everything will be in the ball park and more than adequate for measuring improvement and keeping track of your numbers. 

It is a good cheap alternative to training with power. IT's not as good as a dedicated power meter but compromises have to be made sometimes. Mostly when you can't justify or afford a PM for your turbo bike.


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## Dusty Bin (13 Nov 2013)

Chris432626 said:


> Actually, not.
> Slightly peeved that the hard work I've put in on the turbo / trainer road over the last month has given me an FTP increase of.......2!



Two possibilities:

1) your measurement technique is incorrect, or unreliable
2) you have not been working as hard as you think, or you may not have been doing the right sessions


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## Howard (13 Nov 2013)

Can we merge this with the power thread? There's some good stuff here.


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## Chris432626 (13 Nov 2013)

Good info here, thanks for all the input. Underlying message is...must work harder! I'm setting all kinds of pb's so I think I'm going in the right direction, maybe just a bit shocked that I hadn't gained at least 10. LTHR increased by a fair amount though, I'm looking forward to another test at Christmas.

P.s. Really, really poor I.T. Joke!


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## jdtate101 (15 Nov 2013)

My FTP went from 245 to 312 over the last 12months, this was measured by doing 20min tests every month. It's worth while and very satisfying to see your power curve (over all rides) with clear space between your current yr and the last one, also helps you see where you need to work.


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## gam001 (20 Nov 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Stick with it and you will see gains over a 3-6 month period. My FTP went from 230 to 295 from October 2012 - March 2013. This was using a build and a base build structure.
> 
> Since then i took a break from the intensity of TR/turbo and done 95% of my riding outdoors - PB'ing most things in the process. Bearing that in mind i have just started up again on Trainerroad, as the weather has been darker and crapper, and i had to drop my FTP to 280 - a drop of 15. I simply wasn't used to the intensity, i was a mess after starting the 40k TT program. It takes several months to get back into it IMO.
> 
> ...



This is exactly my story too. 
I'm starting my winter turbo regime again tomorrow - it will be a shock to the system for the first few sessions  Hoping to get LT up to 325w by March 
I wrote about how I did it in the thread below, which may be of interest to you (there's other good stuff in the thread too!)
Basically, it's about hardwork, consistency and patience.
Good luck 

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/am-i-training-right.128907/


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## Chris432626 (20 Nov 2013)

gam001 said:


> This is exactly my story too.
> I'm starting my winter turbo regime again tomorrow - it will be a shock to the system for the first few sessions  Hoping to get LT up to 325w by March
> I wrote about how I did it in the thread below, which may be of interest to you (there's other good stuff in the thread too!)
> Basically, it's about hardwork, consistency and patience.
> ...


Thanks for the link, very useful info.
I'm trying to get my average speed up for Ironman distance, my plan is to get my 60-120 minutes power up then concentrate on maintaining the power over greater distances once the weather cheers up.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Nov 2013)

gam001 said:


> This is exactly my story too.
> I'm starting my winter turbo regime again tomorrow - it will be a shock to the system for the first few sessions  Hoping to get LT up to 325w by March
> I wrote about how I did it in the thread below, which may be of interest to you (there's other good stuff in the thread too!)
> Basically, it's about hardwork, consistency and patience.
> ...


It is indeed a shock to the system. In fact it was a rude awakening. 

At present i am diluting some TT specific sessions with outside riding. I plan to start a 6 week intensive block of E3 training solutions (power accelerator) in December. The goal will be to increase power over short high intensity intervals which will then be the base for longer, more TT specific, sessions. 

It is going to be hard work indeed, again. The rewards though should make it all worthwhile. 

Some people use winter to work on "slow base miles". If you already have a good aerobic base then this is a waste of valuable time IMO. This time can be used to work on weaknesses and/or specific targets before the season begins. 

Look forward to hearing of your progress @gam001


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## Rob3rt (21 Nov 2013)

Base miles are great if you enjoy them! You don't have to just ride around at 15 mph cursing the displeasure of riding 100 miles in the cold! I think of them as an opportunity...


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Nov 2013)

That being said Robert i don't think you are a subscriber to a winter full of base riding. I know better.


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## Rob3rt (21 Nov 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> That being said Robert i don't think you are a subscriber to a winter full of base riding. I know better.



No I am not, I still ride hard when I get chance and do 1 hard session per week, plus I will sit on the front of a faster club run for longer than other people when it isn't a problem, so I get the hurt, but I do still enjoy pootling about sometimes. Last weekend I did 3 rides, one that was fairly brisk which I sat on the front for a lot of, then 2 other rides (over 100 mile in total) with average speeds under 15 mph which were extremely easy and it was not a displeasure in the slightest. The key is good company or an interesting route! I prefer the former.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> No I am not, I still ride hard when I get chance and do 1 hard session per week, plus I will sit on the front of a faster club run for longer than other people when it isn't a problem, so I get the hurt, but I do still enjoy pootling about sometimes. Last weekend I did 3 rides, one that was fairly brisk which I sat on the front for a lot of, then 2 other rides (over 100 mile in total) with average speeds under 15 mph which were extremely easy and it was not a displeasure in the slightest. The key is good company or an interesting route! I prefer the former.


I love riding solo as i find the solitude incredibly peaceful and rewarding. Most of my hard work goes into solo rides whereas club rides tend to be a more social occasion, especially in winter. The great thing about cycling is that you can take what you want from it. Some weeks, club rides can be my weekly social life!!


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## Dusty Bin (21 Nov 2013)

From a training perspective, base rides are great if you have the time. Not so great if you don't.


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## VamP (21 Nov 2013)

This.

I just don't have time for long rides. I rarely manage more than 70 in a day. Luckily it's not really necessary, otherwise I guess I'd have to find it somehow. Overnight instead of sleeping perhaps.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Nov 2013)

That's the point. No one has the time. We have to spend whatever time we have on the bike wisely. IMO base miles do not represent this.


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## Dusty Bin (21 Nov 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> That's the point. No one has the time. We have to spend whatever time we have on the bike wisely. IMO base miles do not represent this.



Pros have the time - which is why many of them knock out around 25+ hours per week training - most of which is well below threshold pace. Base work is actually pretty useful if you can do lots of it.


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## Pedrosanchezo (21 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Pros have the time - which is why many of them knock out around 25+ hours per week training - most of which is well below threshold pace. Base work is actually pretty useful if you can do lots of it.


Yeh the pro's will use it for many reason, not least so that their bodies are used to the hours of a stage race and a 3 week Tour. A pro would also use these miles to keep trim and using fat as a main source of fuel, something our bodies can be trained to do. 

Again though, for most of us not riding tours of 6 hour stage races, base miles are not going to be productive in terms of time spent.


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