# America coast to coast



## Bigtallfatbloke (26 Aug 2008)

..Has anybody here ever done this?

It is a total pipe dream at the moment, and I believe it is about three times th edistance of the ride through France I have just returned from, but something is telling me it could be fun..next year or the year after maybe when i have got fitter and bought a gun and some health insurance

What routes are best? Avoiding bandit country and deserts would be best! Any experiences over there would be cool to read about...hmm...I wonder.


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## John Ponting (26 Aug 2008)

You could start by googling Race Across America (RAM) to get an idea of routes. IGNORE the times.


http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/subwebraam/route/2008/08CSFChart.pdf may tempt you.

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/subwebraam/route/2008/route2008.jpg


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## Dayvo (26 Aug 2008)

I'm in the day-dreaming early stages of planning a trip from Vancouver to Key West to mark my 50th year in two years time.
Plan to ride south along the Pacific coast road, then need to work out a route either just south of the Rocky mountains, or just north of the Arizona desert, then due east and down though to Miami and beyond. Not a lot of detail there, but that's the plan at the mo!


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## Cathryn (26 Aug 2008)

One of my favourite pipe dreams too...no idea how and when I'll do it.

Try the Adventure Cycling Association...US version of CTC. Great route advice.


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## jay clock (26 Aug 2008)

The place to look for route advice is the Adventure Cycling Association here http://www.adventurecycling.org/

And of course CGOAB here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

Happy dreaming. We all do it! Hope you make it come true


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## Bigtallfatbloke (26 Aug 2008)

I just posted up in the forums on adventure cycling..lets see what the responses bring.
I am thinking 2009 if I can afford it...money will be the thing that has th emost potential to hinder me right now.

..mind you I am not going to talk myself into this one...well not just yet


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## friedel (28 Aug 2008)

You can come with us across Canada instead. Canada is far superior to America. 

Just kidding 

My main concern would be to find routes that are as traffic free as possible. In general, North American drivers don't have a lot of respect for bicycles on the road so you definitely want to stay off any busy routes.


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## friedel (28 Aug 2008)

Oh, and Google for a guy called Rick Gunn and his make-a-wish tour. He went round the world and all his entries and photos, including a few from the states, are worth a read. Some of the best cycle reading I've done and very under promoted I think.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (30 Aug 2008)

Thankyou Friedel I will!

I have just been looking at the AC route Trans America trail. I am sure that route must be th emost popular one to use. I suspect strongly that this route will throw everything America has to offer in terms of weather conditions and terrain as well.

Just tentativel considering the gear changes I would need to make, the first thing that occurs to me is that i would need a new (more suited to winter conditions) tent and sleeping bag I think. Also I am wondering about those ortlieb bags again.
Clearly I would need to become totally competent at all bike repairs that might be needed en route as there must be huge stretches where there arn't any people or bike shops etc. So That's a task for me over the winter.

I'll need to get my head around the campsite situation as well and try to plan th etrip at the best time of year so as to try to avoid weather extremes.

But above all I need to get the finances planned properly and start saving asap. I hav eno idea about a typical daily 'spend' on such a trip based on a solo tourer camping.

All of these thoughts will have been in the minds of all those who set out on this route, I am just at the very start of what could be the adventure of my life.


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## Dayvo (30 Aug 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I am just at the very start of what could be the adventure of my life.



Good on ya, BTFB!

Me too! I also have to get the bike mech's course under my belt, and sort a route out; and most difficult of all - tell my girlfriend!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (30 Aug 2008)

..are you going to America?


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## Tony (31 Aug 2008)

Of course, there are plenty of accounts on crazyguyonabike!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (31 Aug 2008)

yes indeed, I am reading some of them.


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## Dayvo (31 Aug 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ..are you going to America?



Yeah! Planning to do it in the summer (June, July, August) of 2010 (I'm 50 in Jan 2010 and want to do a few different things that year to 'celebrate' it! :?:

My earlier post!



Dayvo said:


> I'm in the day-dreaming early stages of planning a trip from Vancouver to Key West to mark my 50th year in two years time.
> Plan to ride south along the Pacific coast road, then need to work out a route either just south of the Rocky mountains, or just north of the Arizona desert, then due east and down though to Miami and beyond. Not a lot of detail there, but that's the plan at the mo!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (31 Aug 2008)

Kool!.. can you keep me updated on th edetail of your planning as it develops, I'd be REALLY interested to know things like routes, gear, that kind of stuff. If I do this I am going prepared (big time) ...and thta means time and money over the next year just planning the trip I think.
Right now my aim is simply to keep riding through the winter and keep fit. Then I may do Holland next spring early summer, meantime I can be getting on with some planning for USA....oh man, I can hear myself talking myself into this already


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## Dayvo (31 Aug 2008)

BTFB! You have a pm from moi! :?:


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## Bigtallfatbloke (1 Sep 2008)

...just looking at this Hurricane in New Orleans mate...me thinks a new tent is a must have for xmas!


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## Dayvo (1 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ...just looking at this Hurricane in New Orleans mate...me thinks a new tent is a must have for xmas!



Yeah, one like this: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bird's_Nest_stadium,_May_2008.jpg


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## domtyler (1 Sep 2008)

Just finished watching the Mark Beaumont thing last night. Looks like he had a great time cycling across the States, apart from being knocked over and being mugged anyway!


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## xilios (1 Sep 2008)

Dayvo said:


> Yeah! Planning to do it in the summer (June, July, August) of 2010 (I'm 50 in Jan 2010 and want to do a few different things that year to 'celebrate' it!
> quote]
> 
> Yep same here, we also turn 50 in 2010  and already been saving for a tour across Canada or Oz, to celebrate. I am hoping for Oz but early days yet. After talking to several like minded people around, going coast to coast US, Can. or Oz it would be a good idea to join warmshowers or couchsurfing as some of the distances can be great without any place to stay, also fun meeting some locals.
> A lot of planning till 2010, now just focusing on next spring tour


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## Bigtallfatbloke (2 Sep 2008)

I have found some gps route files for the trans america route here:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes/gps.cfm?rt=TransAmerica&s=470k&f=tagpsdata

I even managed to get them into my GPS but I dont have the american maps so I can tsee anything except thje line...I am going to need an american sd map card me thinks..or ..even the dvd...I am also thinking that a small lite laptop would be kool for such a trip....2010 I will be the wrong side of forty and th eright sid eof 50 still...I think east >west is best...why do you guys feel different?


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## Dayvo (3 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I think east >west is best...why do you guys feel different?



Psychologically, it's all downhill, north west to south east (looking at a map) and riding towards 'home'! 

Same if I ever did LEJOG, I'd do a north to south!


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## Tim Bennet. (3 Sep 2008)

There's no need to reinvent the wheel with this. Hundreds and hundreds of people do the crossing each year and millions of words have been written, (including all the precise details) about every conceivable way of doing it.

It's a big enough undertaking that to disregard other people's experiences would be silly.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (3 Sep 2008)

who's re inventing wheels?


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## Tim Bennet. (3 Sep 2008)

> I think east >west is best...


.


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## Cathryn (3 Sep 2008)

There's a few of us who want to do this...we should do it as a group! Cyclechat Conquers America!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (3 Sep 2008)

Maybe one team could start on the east coast and the on the ron the west and we could meet up in the middle....that way we wont have to re invent any wheels.


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## friedel (4 Sep 2008)

Hi Brock, most people advise doing Canada from west to east because of prevailing winds. I assume it's the same reason for the U.S. - a headwind across the praries = not much fun!

I think you can do this pretty cheaply if you're prepared to do some wild camping and cook your own food. My main concern for Canada, and again I think it's similar for the States, is picking roads that are as traffic free as possible. I hope I am wrong but I have the impression, from other cyclists as well as when I lived in Canada, that North Americans are not very cycle aware or respectful of bikes on the road.

Also, remember to use Warm Showers and Couchsurfing to meet great people!


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## friedel (4 Sep 2008)

For those of you wanting a bike tech course, we found the ones offered by CTUK very helpful. You have to get down to London though...

http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/training/individual_training.php#maintenance

We did the basic and intermediate courses. They'll cover pretty much anything you'll run into on the road and a bit more besides.


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## Cathryn (4 Sep 2008)

Edinburgh Bikes do maintenance courses as well.

Welcome back Friedel, by the way. Where are you guys?


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## friedel (5 Sep 2008)

Hi Cathryn! We are in a hotel with wifi in Laos, thus the return to the boards  Actually we are in Luang Prabang, a world heritage site. Pretty touristy and quite the shock after pedalling the mountains for a few days. Back into Thailand soon and then south to Oz. Where's your next adventure?


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ..Has anybody here ever done this?
> 
> It is a total pipe dream at the moment, and I believe it is about three times th edistance of the ride through France I have just returned from, but something is telling me it could be fun..next year or the year after maybe when i have got fitter and bought a gun and some health insurance
> 
> What routes are best? Avoiding bandit country and deserts would be best! Any experiences over there would be cool to read about...hmm...I wonder.




If you look up noahs arc appeal,, the charity for Wales childrens hospital 
It is being done next year from East to West.My ex boss and some others are doing it,Im gutted as I would have loved to have done it as well with them,but im unable to do it hopefully they will do it again..
Details of event are

4000 miles , 4time zones , in 2wks.
start sunday 22 march san fransisco california. finish 4 th april in jacksonville florida

I will add all the other dates and stops this afternoon no time to do it now...


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

coast to coast dates..
sunday 22 march san fransisco 
monday 23 mar santa barbara 
tuesday 24 los angeles
wednesday 25 joshua tree
thursday 26 las vegas
friday 27 grand canyon
saturday 28 monument valley
sunday 29 mesa verde
monday 30 alburquerque
tuesday 31 austin texas
wednesday1 april houston
thursday2 new orleans
friday 3 mobile Al
saturday 4 april jacksonville ,Florida

www.coast2coast-usa.org

If anyone wants anymore info,pm me and I will try 2 find out for you what you want to know


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## Dayvo (5 Sep 2008)

need2 said:


> 4000 miles , 4time zones , in 2wks.



Bloody hell! That's going some!


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

Dayvo said:


> Bloody hell! That's going some!



yip,,,but just think how much fun it will be...I am totally gutted that I can`t go with them


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## Dayvo (5 Sep 2008)

Why can't you go? And I hope you've got a *GOOD* excuse!


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## Cathryn (5 Sep 2008)

friedel said:


> Hi Cathryn! We are in a hotel with wifi in Laos, thus the return to the boards  Actually we are in Luang Prabang, a world heritage site. Pretty touristy and quite the shock after pedalling the mountains for a few days. Back into Thailand soon and then south to Oz. Where's your next adventure?



We have no more adventures planned, Friedel  We shall have stick with yours!!! Misery! (for us)


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## Dayvo (5 Sep 2008)

Cathryn said:


> We shall have *stick* with yours!!! Misery! (for us)



What's that? Rhubarb?


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

Dayvo said:


> Why can't you go? And I hope you've got a *GOOD* excuse!



Lung infection only 2/3rds of my lungs working properly at the moment..I have sarcoid,,,last april doctors thought I had TB and stopped me going to Australia like was planned for my mates wedding..!

Hope to go back to oz next year hopefully after they have done the coast to coast next year they will do it again,,,my name is already down for it


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## Cathryn (5 Sep 2008)

Dayvo said:


> What's that? Rhubarb?



Haha...me? Rushing? Never...


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## Dayvo (5 Sep 2008)

need2 said:


> Lung infection only 2/3rds of my lungs working properly at the moment..I have sarcoid,,,last april doctors thought I had TB and stopped me going to Australia like was planned for my mates wedding..
> 
> Hope to go back to oz next year hopefully after they have done the coast to coast next year they will do it again,,,my name is already down for it



Good excuse!  Sorry to hear of your lung infection. Hopefully you'll soon be back to full fitness and chasing the miles again. Good luck!


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

Dayvo said:


> Good excuse!  Sorry to hear of your lung infection. Hopefully you'll soon be back to full fitness and chasing the miles again. Good luck!




thanks ,,

It`s hard going on the bike at the moment but I will keep plugging away avoiding steep hills,,which in Wales is hard


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## Bigtallfatbloke (5 Sep 2008)

> 4000 miles , 4time zones , in 2wks.
> 
> Bloody hell! That's going some!



It certainly is!

I cant tell for sure from the site but it looks like this is a supported ride and perhaps ridden in teams rather than just one individual riding all th etime. I may well be wrong.

In any event it's a cool thing to do and a worthy cause.

I rode jus tunder 1000m across France in 9 days with a fully loaded bike tent etc...to do 4000 in 14 days has to mean lightweight road bikes, no loads and a support set up of some kind...if not then these guys are nothing short of supermen! Also the route takes them along the southern tier which has to be HOT I would imagine.

Realistically I would be looking at 2-3 months cycle camping coast to coast across the trans Am route east to west unsupported.


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## need2 (5 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> It certainly is!
> 
> I cant tell for sure from the site but it looks like this is a supported ride and perhaps ridden in teams rather than just one individual riding all th etime. I may well be wrong.
> 
> ...




I know of another 5 that are going with my old boss,,it was his son in laws idea,,bet he loves him now


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Sep 2008)

> There's a few of us who want to do this...we should do it as a group! Cyclechat Conquers America!



Thinking this over I think it's a cool suggestion
and would be a lot of fun if planned out properly. I suppose one concern would be any charachter clashes, in my experience tourers like to do things their own way (I know I do) and...well company is all well and good, but it has to be as stress free as possible off the bikes. 

I hav edecided that if I go, I am going along a well trodden path, with the winds and taking my time. I like th elook of the trans am route and th eready made maps etc on the adventure cycling site.


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2008)

It does sound good, but the reality could prove to be different. 

My desired route is 'North West to Key West', almost a diagonal line across the country.

I'd be looking at a distance of about 100+ miles a day, with a rest day every six days, or unless I pull a bird see a place of great natural beauty and want to hang around for a few nights days!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Sep 2008)

I think my rationale behind a 'well trodden route' is that when i look at a map of the states it is just so vast I dont know where to start. At least the transam is a route that has been tested and seems easy enough to follow. But at the end of the day all I want to do is to be able to tell my grandkids I rode across america on a bicycle, so they can yawn and get bored with me....if I ever get any GK's but thats another story...
...hanging around on great natural beautys is also a tour objective

100 miles a day is ok, I'd plan on that as well, jus tso long as the raod surfaces are good and the headwinds are going th eother direction!


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## skmc1955 (6 Sep 2008)

I was thinking of putting my name forward for this(redundancy permitting!) but 100 miles a day! fully loaded! I,m not a seasoned tourer but that seems a heck of a lot!


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## Dayvo (6 Sep 2008)

skmc1955 said:


> I was thinking of putting my name forward for this(redundancy permitting!) but 100 miles a day! fully loaded! I,m not a seasoned tourer but that seems a heck of a lot!



Given the right conditions, it works out, more or less, to about 6-8 hours a day.

And you WILL ride yourself towards fitness; and very quickly.


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## skmc1955 (6 Sep 2008)

I,ve just put vancouver to miami into multimap, and it comes out at 3601 miles, but obviously thats on major roads, so that would be the minimum


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Sep 2008)

120km a day loaded is about right for me, it gives time enough to enjoy th eride and arrive at a campsite around 6-7pm ish based on leaving camp at about 9am wiht some short stops along the way. But to my mind it all depends on so many variables...wind, rain, hills, outlaws and souix indians etc


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## need2 (8 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I think my rationale behind a 'well trodden route' is that when i look at a map of the states it is just so vast I dont know where to start. At least the transam is a route that has been tested and seems easy enough to follow. But at the end of the day all I want to do is to be able to tell my grandkids I rode across america on a bicycle, so they can yawn and get bored with me....if I ever get any GK's but thats another story...
> ...hanging around on great natural beautys is also a tour objective
> 
> 100 miles a day is ok, I'd plan on that as well, jus tso long as the raod surfaces are good and the headwinds are going th eother direction!



only other information I have on the coast2coast trip my old boss is doing is that they have a few support vans with them therefore they don`t have to carry any kit with them,As for the exact number I am not sure of as I think there are sevral going on the trip,but as said before I can find out if anyone wants.If anyone does I won`t be back on here until thursday nite so dont think i`m ignoring you I just won`t have picked up the messages ...


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## Tempest (5 Aug 2009)

Have just joined the forums, I've been looking into a coast to coast trip myself, I'm pretty certain this hasn't been mentioned but if it has apologies in advance.

There is a website http://www.discoverytrail.org/ which has details of an official non motorised route for hikers and cyclist's.

Hope it's of some use.


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## talespinner (5 Sep 2009)

*US Coast to Coast*

I rode cross-country self-contained from California to Virginia. It took me two months on my Cannondale T-800 touring bike. If you need any help planning a trip, I have a touring web site with information on touring and the book I wrote about my trek. www.bicycletouringtales.com.


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## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2009)

there's this..
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Tzut&page_id=20782&v=4t
by far the most lucid and sensible account I've come across


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## Paul Narramore (8 Sep 2009)

Hardly relevant but I'll mention it anyway.

In 2002 I rode my motorbike from Vancouver down to Nogales on the Mexican border then up to Toronto, in six weeks.

In 2006 I again rode my motorbike from New York to San Francisco then back to NY, a journey of 17,000 miles in three months.

I love the US, my favourite country, and one day I must return.


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## rich p (8 Sep 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> there's this..
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Tzut&page_id=20782&v=4t
> by far the most lucid and sensible account I've come across



What strikes me about this account is how boring a lot of it is!


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## dellzeqq (8 Sep 2009)

rich p said:


> What strikes me about this account is how boring a lot of it is!


the fear that I've always had about a ride that certainly stirs my imagination, is that the U.S. is a very big place that goes on a bit. I've driven across Canada four times, and across the U.S. twice, and it does go on and on and on. The thought of riding across (say) Saskatchewan is pretty daunting - when you can see a road bridge forty miles away and it's the most prominent thing on the landscape you know that there's a whole lot less stimulation than you'd find in Leicestershire. I think the writer does show the thing for what it is - a loooong bike ride with precious little incident.


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## Paul Narramore (8 Sep 2009)

Before I went to the US I got a big map of the country and added all those places I wanted to visit, then just joined up the dots. There were the odd days of tedium but to ride along miles and miles of roads without having one's hand hovering over the brake lever, was a joy. So little traffic.

In brief my route (in 2006) was New York - Washington DC - Blue Ridge Parkway - South Dakota - Little Big Horn - Mount Rushmore - Crazy Horse - Sturgis - Cody, Wyoming - Yellowstone NP - Million Dollar Highway - Estes Park - Mount Evans - Pike's Peak - Durango - Las Vegas - Zion & Bryce Canyons - Grand Canyon - Tucson - Tombstone - San Diego - Malibu - Las Vegas (wife flew out to meet me) - Death Valley - Yosemite - San Francisco - San Antonio (the Alamo) - Natchez Trace - Nashville - Bowling Green KY (home of the Chevrolet Corvette) - Williamsburg - New Jersey.

Not a lot of time for boredom on a motorbike, probably more so in a bike.


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## Plax (8 Sep 2009)

Another pipe dream for me also. One day I'm going to cycle some of the US at least.


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## dpiper (9 Sep 2009)

I've just ridden the first half of my own transamerica, so maybe there's some useful info here (maps, route, pics, story etc)
ww.tra-velo-gue.co.uk


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## BigonaBianchi (10 Sep 2009)

hmmm...well you know BTFB as soon a swe get a few ..erm...reality issues sorted I think it would be a cool thing to pick back up on this idea and actually do it eh? What say you...we could ride it together?


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## GT aggressor (14 Sep 2009)

im going to be riding the trans am trail soon dont know when to start it though ive got all the stuff i need to complete it , its just dates now. got any tips or dos and donts of completing this trail. thanks


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## jay clock (14 Sep 2009)

> http://www.discoverytrail.org/


 seems to be off road.... 



> Originally Posted by *dellzeqq*
> 
> 
> _there's this..
> ...



That CGOAB write up is pretty depressing. They sound like they just went for miles. 90% of the CGOAB journals are much more inspiring.


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## mike1026 (15 Sep 2009)

I have followed this thread with interest as I am planning to do as much of the trans am as I can.
No-one has yet mentioned anything about visa requirements. I have looked at the US Embassy web site http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp3.html and I think I qualify under the visa waiver scheme. This gives up to 90 days stay and the holder must be in possession of a return ticket. I just wonder if there would be any problems in not being able to provide addresses of residence like hotels or camp sites. Does anyone have any information or experiences about the pitfalls of visa applications.


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## Paul Narramore (15 Sep 2009)

When I took my motorbike over in 2006, I discovered belatedly that the time between my outward and return flights was 92 days, two days over the visa waiver thingy. Althought it was a bit of a rush, I had to get photos done (the photo booth ones are too small) then go to the American Embassy in London's Grosvenor Square.

As for addresses, a hotel or in my case, an American friend I was staying with for a few days at the beginning and end of my trip, was sufficient.


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## Yellow7 (17 Nov 2009)

*us coast to coast (The Lincoln Highway)*

Hi. Not sure if anyone gave you a definate answer but the official US coast to coast is 'The Linclon Highway', 3200 miles. The Adventure Cycling Association do not do maps, i've tried them, but you can gets various books & websites, this is the main one; http://lincolnhighway.jameslin.name/ the best book i've found is "The Lincoln Highway, The Graet American Road Trip" ISBN 978-0-393-05938-0. I cycled US Route 66 last year, a gun you say?? Believe me, it's really NOT like you see on TV, well, maybe in LA, where i finished. The US hospitality was SO amazing, still makes me smile, bloody amazing time! 

If you can't find maps the use [as i done for some sections of Route 66] Microsofts Streets & Trips (same as our MS Autoroute but for the US)
Like Route 66, The Lincoln highway has gone under mansy realignments & moved as towns grew into cities so you need to do some research...that's was part of the fun for me with 66, sitting there plotting sections & thinking, "wow, i'm gonn a ride it?!!" Remember, preperation is 9/10ths of the job.
Have fun!
Have fun!


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## CopperBrompton (17 Nov 2009)

mike1026 said:


> This gives up to 90 days stay and the holder must be in possession of a return ticket. I just wonder if there would be any problems in not being able to provide addresses of residence like hotels or camp sites.


You need an address for your first night, just put that on the landing card and they should be happy.



> Does anyone have any information or experiences about the pitfalls of visa applications.


So long as you don't have a criminal record, don't have any communicable diseases and have never had any problems with the US Immigration authorities (including overstaying on a previous visa), it's very straightforward to get a B-2 visa. It's definitely worth doing so if you're in any doubt about whether you'll need to stay longer than 90 days (even a 1-day over-stay will cause you problems next time).


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## irc (19 Nov 2009)

mike1026 said:


> I jst wonder if there would be any problems in not being able to provide addresses of residence like hotels or camp sites. .



I did a Vancouver to Boston transam this summer. Starting in VC as I could get a direct flight there from the UK. I therefore went through US immigration/customs at a ferry crossing from Vancouver Island to Washington State which may or may not be more relaxed than at an airport. You need an address to quote for your first night in the USA. I plucked a campsite address off my Adventure Cycling map and quoted that. No problem. I ended up camping elsewhere.

As for the cost of the tour? Camped almost every night. Overall costs about $35 per day incuding everything except flights insurance and hostel/hotel in Boston. 

The Adventure Cycling maps are good. It's nice to know whether the only town for the next x no. of miles has shops/campsite/library etc. On the other hand other I made my own route about half the time and other than southern Michigan (1 1/2 days heavy traffic) all the roads I used were fine. 

As for E-W or W-E don't worry about the winds. I got more headwinds despite going the supposedly favourable way. On the other hand I only got soaked to the skin once. Not bad for a 4500 mile tour.

Mechanical problems? Three punctures. All during three days in Kansas from Goathead thorns. That's it. Talking to other cyclists rear spoke breakages were the main problems.



The whole boring story at

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=127840


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