# Abuse



## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2018)

2018 has been by far my worst year for cycling from an abuse point of view. 

I have had things thrown at me twice, one time when I gestured back almost ended in a nasty confrontation. 

Every other ride I’m getting abuse and shouting at me, I honestly don’t know what I’m doing wrong, if I ride any closer to the curb I may as well ride in the pavement so it’s not as if I’m impending people. 

I have been very careful in setting my lights up so dazzling people is unlikely. 

Maybe I just need to be more thick skinned but it’s really starting to wear a little thin.


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Oct 2018)




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## Mrs M (12 Oct 2018)

x


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## gbb (12 Oct 2018)

It may just be bad luck, a passing thing. Personally in 20 years of serious cycling I had one thing thrown at me...that was an empty bottle chucked out of a car by chavs so maybe just bedevilment, not personal or cyclist hatred.
Insults, maybe once or twice, no more....and I ride a strong but respectful of other road users position in the road.


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## Drago (12 Oct 2018)

I got some abuse in the car today. How dare I indicate right and then stop in the road to turn right. The two behind me couldn't wait and mounted the footpath to get past me, tooting his horn as he went. To say I was gobsmacked was putting it mildly.


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## slowmotion (12 Oct 2018)

I had somebody in a car spray me with piss outside the Cromwell Hospital about eight years ago. Nothing's happened since. I guess I don't get much abuse, or don't notice it.


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## Johnno260 (13 Oct 2018)

It could just be bad luck, today it was a guy going the opposite way he slowed and just hurled abuse for no obvious reason. 

Maybe another cyclist had annoyed him earlier, I just gave my opinion of him and pushed on.


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## Vantage (13 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> if I ride any closer to the curb I may as well ride in the pavement so it’s not as if I’m impending people.



I wouldn't be doing that no matter how childish they act. Safety first and so on. Keep a good 3 feet minimum from the road side no matter who's wanting to pass.


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## Matty T (13 Oct 2018)

It's really sad that other road users don't seem to respect each other - and different vehicles attract varying levels of impatience.
Be safe and don't get too mad that it upsets your concentration. Go Pro maybe?


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

Frankly, it's a fact of life for a larger lady on a bike  Especially from young men who've souped up their mum's hatchback and left the family braincell at home


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## dave r (13 Oct 2018)

I rarely get abuse, but if it happens it's like buses, I don't get anything for ages then several incidents together. Try to ignore them and try to not react, you don't know who you're dealing with and you're vunurable if it kicks of big time. And try to be assertive, don't cower in the gutter.


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## Cuchilo (13 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Especially from young men who've souped up their mum's hatchback and left the family braincell at home


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## Phaeton (13 Oct 2018)

I don't get abuse on the roads I find everybody is pleasant, it's on here where I get insults thrown at me


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## Drago (13 Oct 2018)

slowmotion said:


> I had somebody in a car spray me with piss outside the Cromwell Hospital about eight years ago.



Well, you were on fire!


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## Julia9054 (13 Oct 2018)

I got a stream of screamed abuse from some k***head in a landrover the other day. My crime? Wheeling my bike across a main road between 2 cycle paths. 
His mother must be so proud. 
My response (providing i can get away) is always a dazzling smile, a cheery wave and to blow them a kiss.
Angry men don't like being laughed at.


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## ozboz (13 Oct 2018)

Most of the verbal and threats I have had are from other cyclists and joggers, usually because I will always hold my line and pass on the left , 
My GF was always copping it from everyone , but when I got her a new helmet , it seemed to stop , i can only think that she looks more mature wearing it , as she is under 5' im pretty sure a lot of drivers , peds and others thought she was a mid teen , 
amazing ,


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## Phaeton (13 Oct 2018)

Julia9054 said:


> My response (providing i can get away) is always a dazzling smile, a cheery wave and to blow them a kiss.
> Angry men don't like being laughed at.


I use the same method or I sometimes mouth "I love you" instead of the kiss, that really upsets them


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5409246, member: 9609"]ignoring the rampant sexism, ageism and stereotyping you're 100% right. young men should not be allowed a driving licience[/QUOTE]
Its not sexist, nor ageist, nor stereotyping. It’s the accurate descriptive truth of what can happen several times a week to me. Often when I’m cycling along minding my own business, or simply sat waiting for a traffic light. Not sure why you are offended

Oh and nearly always they are white and British


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## Davos87 (13 Oct 2018)

slowmotion said:


> I had somebody in a car spray me with piss outside the Cromwell Hospital about eight years ago. Nothing's happened since. I guess I don't get much abuse, or don't notice it.



Must admit I would expect more civil behaviour from Consultant Urologists.


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## Drago (13 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5409246, member: 9609"]ignoring the rampant sexism, ageism and stereotyping you're 100% right. young men should not be allowed a driving licience[/QUOTE]

Young women may be less likely to possess the hoon gene, but they're far more likely to be prosecuted for mobile phone offences than the boys. They still kill, but on average they go about it rather more discretely, so dont gain the attention of self appointed wise people like us.


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

Which is relevant to a thread about cyclists getting abuse from motorists how?


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## Alan O (13 Oct 2018)

I probably shouldn't tempt fate, but I've never really suffered from any abuse. The closest I can think of was a couple of years ago when someone shouted something from the outside lane of an A road as they sped past me - but I've no idea what they were saying.

I think it helps that I don't commute and I'm never in rush hour work traffic, so I don't really encounter frustrated motorists stuck in their tin boxes. Instead, I ride probably around 90% of my time on quiet roads and cycle paths.


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## JPBoothy (13 Oct 2018)

I find that by being 'over the top' nice to people takes the sting out of them as their small brain can't compute nasty/nice at the same time. Don't get me wrong, I don't creep to every road/path user I meet and, I have been known to see the mist at times myself but, by confronting everybody you will just end up getting either hurt, angry and wound-up for the rest of your ride, or worse! If I am holding a few cars up that can't pass then I will give a polite wave to the first one when it can pass and 99% of the time I get one back. If I'm coming up behind other 'shared' path users then a quick ping of your bell or shout of "coming through" will often be met with a thank you. You will never win over every idiot but, if we can all change a few of them it will add up in the end


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## fatjel (13 Oct 2018)

I moved to Wales this year and I’m trying without success to think of any abuse aimed at me on my bike.


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## Will Spin (13 Oct 2018)

I noticed more abuse during the long hot summer of this year, it may be that people were driving around with their windows down and I could hear the anti cyclist rants of the swivel eyed lunatics. I receive more abuse when I'm out with my club, it seems that a group of cyclists is like a red rag to a bull as far as some are concerned, no matter how polite and well discliplined we are.


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## Drago (13 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Which is relevant to a thread about cyclists getting abuse from motorists how?


About as relevant as your comments about fast male drivers in mummy's souped up cast off shopping car, I guess. Just making the point that bad behaviour is not the sole preserve of WASP males. 

This is a 'discussion', and it may surprise you to know that discussions progress and evolve. Don't expect any sycophantic nodding in agreement from me just to suit you. If I think something is even vaguely relevant to the discussion I shall trot it out, and I won't be asking your permission.


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## fossyant (13 Oct 2018)

My niece once posted a video of her and her boyfriend doing over 110 mph on Facebook - she was a passenger in a Corsa. I quoted ' the biggest killer of young girls is their boyfriends driving' - she deleted it and apologised - it worked as she's sensible now, despite having some fast cars. Her dad wasn't around, and hasn't been since she was a kid, but the 'uncle' stopped it. She still has fast cars, but isn't an idiot now.


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## mustang1 (13 Oct 2018)

The other day I managed to finally use my excellent one liner (that I learned right here on cc). The driver told/asked me why don't I use the bike.lame so I told him I would use the bike lane when he uses the motorway. That was wonderful!


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## raleighnut (13 Oct 2018)

Nothing new, I used to get it back in the 80s, I blame the thatcher generation for that whole ethos of me, me, me.


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## Heltor Chasca (13 Oct 2018)

I haven’t had any abuse recently. If I have, I haven’t noticed. A lot of the time I have a very cute 9 year old Stoker on the back which the motons ooh and aah at. When I’m on my own bike, I try and wave ‘thanks’ or ‘thumbs up’ to the decent road users. I don’t have enough decent free time to let the ignoramuses ruin the little time I have.


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## fossyant (13 Oct 2018)

mustang1 said:


> The other day I managed to finally use my excellent one liner (that I learned right here on cc). The driver told/asked me why don't I use the bike.lame so I told him I would use the bike lane when he uses the motorway. That was wonderful!



I usually used 'kiss my ar$e' except on one of the first CC track meets, one of the lads from here was in his convertible, and gave me 'verbal' and I really nearly said something unsuitable for before the 9pm watershed, then spotted his smiling face !!!


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## nickyboy (13 Oct 2018)

Vantage said:


> I wouldn't be doing that no matter how childish they act. Safety first and so on. Keep a good 3 feet minimum from the road side no matter who's wanting to pass.


Not always. On narrow lanes with a car behind I will get in tight to the verge and wave them through

Think I've only had one driver shout something at me whilst passing this year. Had loads of waves though


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## fossyant (13 Oct 2018)

More recently. I'd been out with some local guys on the MTB and we'd got to the bottom of an 'official' bridleway, and they said we'd have to ride down here to get to the road - it was about 10ft wide and next to the river, but not specifically a bridleway. We went down it slowly, no persons on it. Got to a main car park so rode through it, then got abused by an old biddy about how horrible we were, she was now in the middle of a public highway giving us massive abuse. We rode on, then saw lots of people walking in the middle of the road, did any of us abuse folk, nope.... Promote your chosen transport by being courteous to others. fairly simple ! Ignore the idiots.


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## Phaeton (13 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5409793, member: 9609"]Yes I will often do that as well, although I will block their way until they slow down to my pace fist, they're not coming past at 50 if there is only going to be a foot of room. Its always a bit of a judgement call on many things from road surface to how careful I think they may be, sometimes I stop and get off.[/QUOTE]
This was why I argued against the minimum distance when it was being discussed a few weeks ago, there are times when it is safe when both parties cooperate even without the proposed legal limit.


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## boydj (13 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> Young women may be less likely to possess the hoon gene, but they're far more likely to be prosecuted for mobile phone offences than the boys. They still kill, but on average they go about it rather more discretely, so dont gain the attention of self appointed wise people like us.



I find the boy racers tend to think of themselves as good drivers and seldom give me a problem. Young ladies, on the other hand are often fast and aggressive, without the road sense that the boys seem to have. Sounds a bit sexist, but that's my experience over the last couple of years both on the bike and in my car.


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## Johnno260 (13 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> About as relevant as your comments about fast male drivers in mummy's souped up cast off shopping car, I guess. Just making the point that bad behaviour is not the sole preserve of WASP males.



Actually both times something was thrown at me it was a car of 2-3 young blokes 18-19 One was a Corsa with a whale tail, the other had the wings widened so cars like that ring alarm bells for me now.

One situation ended in a road side confrontation which was broken up by another road user saying he witnessed them throwing something and then threatening me, so it is relevant.

But I was stupid as I didn’t back down when confronted by 3 people so I’m a complete fool for that, but the red mist had well and truly descended.


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## Bazzer (13 Oct 2018)

Maybe I have been lucky, (famous last words!), but verbal abuse tends to be rare. In the last 12 months , I can only recall two occasions when it has happened and both were on commutes. One was the passenger of a Tarmac lorry, who shouted about using a cycle lane, with the second being a couple young white males in a pick up, gobbing off, seemingly for their own amusement.


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## Johnno260 (13 Oct 2018)

Vantage said:


> I wouldn't be doing that no matter how childish they act. Safety first and so on. Keep a good 3 feet minimum from the road side no matter who's wanting to pass.



I was keeping further out but after a string of particularly bad rides I started hugging the curb I know it’s a bad position. 

I will just find some more rural routes and avoid the larger roads, or just stick with the cuckoo trail to Eastbourne.


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## Phaeton (13 Oct 2018)

boydj said:


> I find the boy racers tend to think of themselves as good drivers and seldom give me a problem. Young ladies, on the other hand are often fast and aggressive, without the road sense that the boys seem to have. Sounds a bit sexist, but that's my experience over the last couple of years both on the bike and in my car.


This is so wrong in so many ways, but I find myself agreeing with you


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## Heltor Chasca (13 Oct 2018)

Phaeton said:


> This is so wrong in so many ways, but I find myself agreeing with you



The statistics from the insurance industry would be the litmus. Wonder how you can extrapolate the numbers? I found it great to hear this week’s revelation that cyclists are better drivers was backed up by sturdy stats from insurance claims.


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

boydj said:


> I find the boy racers tend to think of themselves as good drivers and seldom give me a problem. Young ladies, on the other hand are often fast and aggressive, without the road sense that the boys seem to have. Sounds a bit sexist, but that's my experience over the last couple of years both on the bike and in my car.


Except women drivers don't hurl aggressive highly unpleasant verbal insults at female cyclists when stationary, nothing to do with whether than can drive or not, which was my point. Except on several occasions I've also been subjected to close passes and brake testing after the verbals. farkwits


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5410071, member: 9609"]I agree that is just totally unacceptable, pity you havnt got one of them on film, they don't deserve a licience, I'm sure the cops would act.
I'm with you 100% on this, it must me horrible to have to put up with that.[/QUOTE]
Why then did you acuse me of sexism, ageism and stereotyping?


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## JPBoothy (13 Oct 2018)

Hmm, the distance thing is such a personal choice based on the number of sunken drains, debris and dead things. I like to go for 3ft-4ft on the busier roads (when possible) and then when I hear something that sounds big or close about to pass me, I will 'gently' ease in 1ft-2ft as that puts them even further away from me. The one thing I can never understand though is why a cyclist will opt to use the main carriageway of a busy A road full of buses and lorries when there is a seperate purpose build shared path running alongside (A5117 springs to mind). I don't think anybody in the morgue will be interested in your Strava PB's


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## Julia9054 (13 Oct 2018)

boydj said:


> I find the boy racers tend to think of themselves as good drivers and seldom give me a problem. Young ladies, on the other hand are often fast and aggressive, without the road sense that the boys seem to have. Sounds a bit sexist, but that's my experience over the last couple of years both on the bike and in my car.


Well I'm sure your experience is far more valuable than actual evience
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/broa...orse-drivers-than-menstatistics-say-otherwise
I haven't made a study of this, but i can use google.


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

Julia9054 said:


> Well I'm sure your experience is far more valuable than actual evience
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/broa...orse-drivers-than-menstatistics-say-otherwise
> I haven't made a study of this, but i can use google.


I'd also be interested to know how many cyclist and ped KSIs were due to male vs. female drivers?

Some Uk stats...http://www.brake.org.uk/facts-resources/1593-driver-gender

In Britain 95% of convictions for deaths caused by dangerous driving are against men;
In the UK, the number of male drivers reported having driven under the influence of drugs, was four times higher than the number of female drivers who admitted to the same offence


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## Pat "5mph" (13 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Except women drivers don't hurl aggressive highly unpleasant verbal insults at female cyclists when stationary,


I have a different experience: at least twice that I can remember women drivers have been aggressive to me, a woman on a bike.
Once it was while I was riding the road along a cycle path, which I would normally use but on that day the paths were iced up, another instance was when I was riding the road for safety because the "facilities" would have put me in danger of left hooks.
Both times the women put their window down to shout at me "why are you not on the cycle path".
Another time, it had snowed, I was keeping to the gritted road, when a driver tried to beep me off it.
This driver was, again, a woman.


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## vickster (13 Oct 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I have a different experience: at least twice that I can remember women drivers have been aggressive to me, a woman on a bike.
> Once it was while I was riding the road along a cycle path, which I would normally use but on that day the paths were iced up, another instance was when I was riding the road for safety because the "facilities" would have put me in danger of left hooks.
> Both times the women put their window down to shout at me "why are you not on the cycle path".
> Another time, it had snowed, I was keeping to the gritted road, when a driver tried to beep me off it.
> This driver was, again, a woman.


I get personal insults. The get on the bike path nonsense happens to all cyclists but its not directly personal and so not upsetting, frankly just an annoyance!


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## Pat "5mph" (13 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> I get personal insults. The get on the bike path nonsense happens to all cyclists but its not directly personal and so not upsetting, frankly just an annoyance!


Truly, I don't know what the WV Men shout at me, when they do.
I can never make it out, too windy here.
The shouting gibberish doesn't really bother me, the revving of engines, the beeping, the close passes do.
Fortunately, I can ride the commute to work on segregated paths.


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## DaveReading (13 Oct 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I found it great to hear this week’s revelation that cyclists are better drivers was backed up by sturdy stats from insurance claims.



Really? How do they know?

I don't recall ever being asked whether or not I was a cyclist on a car insurance proposal form, or when making a claim.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2018)

JPBoothy said:


> Hmm, the distance thing is such a personal choice based on the number of sunken drains, debris and dead things. I like to go for 3ft-4ft on the busier roads (when possible) and then when I hear something that sounds big or close about to pass me, I will 'gently' ease in 1ft-2ft as that puts them even further away from me. The one thing I can never understand though is why a cyclist will opt to use the main carriageway of a busy A road full of buses and lorries when there is a seperate purpose build shared path running alongside (A5117 springs to mind). I don't think anybody in the morgue will be interested in your Strava PB's


Myself, it's down to speed in most cases. Above 18mph you're expected to use the road. At times I'm travelling just as quick as most of the other traffic on the roads.

I'm not a fan of the suicide lanes that seemed to be installed with little, if any thought as to how they are actually used by cyclists.

I'm not on strava, and I used five "A"roads to get to & from work for nearly three years, twice a day in each direction. The minor roads proved a bigger problem than the "A" roads. Used as short cuts by people following their satnavs.


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## Slow But Determined (13 Oct 2018)

I was out cycling the other week when the occupants of a passing car threw at me strawberries, jelly, cold custard and some Dream Topping. 
I reported it to police but they said they would take no further action as it was a trifling matter.


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## Phaeton (13 Oct 2018)

I think my dinosaur pulled a hamstring the last time I heard that


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## ozboz (14 Oct 2018)

I posted earlier in the thread about my GF being on the recieving end , she will tell you that percentage wise the most of the abusers were in fact Women drving large cars and 4x4's, and they vent their anger on her to deter and shift blame due to their bad driving ,


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## Andy in Germany (14 Oct 2018)

I found that it varies according to country. 

In the UK I mainly had trouble with younger men and flash cars, White van man et c. Here that isn't the case: if you are under 21 or have been driving less than two years it is very easy to lose your licence for a slight misdemeanour, and speed cameras are painted green and hidden so young lads tend not to muck about as much. Trade vans likewise rarely cause trouble.

The main groups here are older men in expensive cars -many here worked for a certain car company for life and believe they have the right to do anything they like- and younger women. The former are more likely to wind their window down and swear, and the latter are the worst for close passes, using phones, SMIDSY, no lights in fog (!) Illegal parking, and brake 'checks' having passed you. The women gesticulate too, but from behind closed windows.

It's like the older guys assume the law is on their side under any circumstances, and the women think they've got a protective weapon and can get away with anything because they can accelerate off. 

My general response is to smile and wave. I get the impression a lot of drivers don't object to how I'm riding, but simply to my presence on the road, and there's not a lot I can do about this.


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## Vantage (14 Oct 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> and the women think they've got a protective weapon and can get away with anything because they can accelerate off.



Where I live in the NW of England I rarely get abuse from drivers. Even if I confront someone about bad driving it's usually a case of them failing to understand what they did or they apologise. However, the few times I have had abuse hurled at me, it's been from female drivers. They're safe in their little tin boxes.


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## stuarttunstall (14 Oct 2018)

I must say since I started riding again after 40 years I stick to quiet country roads around the village, single track roads with very little traffic, but the vehicles I have met, cars, vans and agricultural vehicles have all be very good, in fact one or two have actually pulled over and waited for me to pass when I would have been happy to wait myself..

Only had one little "boy racer" in a Golf GTI who thought he was on a race track and had no intention of slowing down....


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## Julia9054 (14 Oct 2018)

I get very little abuse tbh. Have been gesticulated at by women but can't remember being yelled at by one.
On the rare occasions men yell at me, the abuse is because i am on a bike but the words chosen are because I'm female


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

I get hardly any abuse. Maybe its because most of the time I'm riding a bike I'm dressed more like a workman and less like a stereotypical cyclist? Lycra really seems to get other road users backs up. Maybe they associate a solo lycra wearer with a lycra-clad club group who have taken up half the road and held them up? There is definitely something linked to how you dress and what sort of bike you ride as to whether you are regarded as fair game for abuse or not.


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## vickster (14 Oct 2018)

Nice bit of victim blaming there


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## Jimidh (14 Oct 2018)

I hardly ever get abuse and most drivers are decent and try to give you room.

However I was involved in a weird situation a few months back Egan our riding with a three other mates.

We were harassed by a middle aged woman who drove up behind us peeping her horn as we were riding two abreast despite it being a wide open road with ample opportunity to pass.

We stopped at traffic lights and one of our group road up beside her and pretty calmly, I wouldn’t have been so nice, asked why she was peeping her horn and explained how her aggressive behaviour made home feel as a vulnerable road user.

Any joe we all road off and she followed us for a bit before we cut off.

Later in the ride we got a message from a club mate telling us to look at Facebook. The silly mare had put a post on, including a photo of us riding saying that my mate had verbally abused her and punched her wing mirror off!!


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## Johnno260 (14 Oct 2018)

stuarttunstall said:


> I must say since I started riding again after 40 years I stick to quiet country roads around the village, single track roads with very little traffic, but the vehicles I have met, cars, vans and agricultural vehicles have all be very good, in fact one or two have actually pulled over and waited for me to pass when I would have been happy to wait myself..
> 
> Only had one little "boy racer" in a Golf GTI who thought he was on a race track and had no intention of slowing down....



This is pretty much what I intend to do, issue being I can’t do this on the days I want to commute, and the tolerance levels towards cyclists in Tunbridge Wells is zero.


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## Vantage (14 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Nice bit of victim blaming there


He's right though. 
In my ped clothes I have fewer close passes etc than when in the lycra gear. 
Some motorists seem to associate lycra with cyclist and normal clothes with human being like there's a difference.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

Vantage said:


> Some motorists seem to associate lycra with cyclist and normal clothes with human being like there's a difference.



The most aggressive type of cyclists, who weave in and out of urban traffic dangerously and generally really push their luck in order to go as fast as possible, tend to be the ones on expensive road bikes wearing all the lycra gear. Motorists notice this behaviour and they associate it with the wearing of lycra, regardless of whether an individual lycra-wearing cyclist is misbehaving or not.


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## Vantage (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The most aggressive type of cyclists, who weave in and out of urban traffic dangerously and generally really push their luck in order to go as fast as possible



You mean Londoners?


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## Richard A Thackeray (14 Oct 2018)

slowmotion said:


> I had somebody in a car spray me with piss outside the Cromwell Hospital about eight years ago


If it had been more recent, it may have been a Frenchman, taking exception to your SKY jersey??


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## Phaeton (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> tend to be the ones on expensive road bikes wearing all the lycra gear.


I can't tell what's an expensive bike so I very much doubt motorists can or care


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

Vantage said:


> You mean Londoners?



Well, the majority of cycling I witness happens in London, and I would say they are the worst cyclists in terms of reckless and aggressive riding antics.
Not many people I know have a good word to say about cyclists in general, but they have a particular degree of antipathy towards the lycra-wearing ones. "Nutters on bikes in lycra" or similar is the usual response. Casually-dressed cyclists at least seem to receive some limited tolerance, absolutely zero tolerance for lycra.


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## HLaB (14 Oct 2018)

boydj said:


> I find the boy racers tend to think of themselves as good drivers and seldom give me a problem. Young ladies, on the other hand are often fast and aggressive, without the road sense that the boys seem to have. Sounds a bit sexist, but that's my experience over the last couple of years both on the bike and in my car.


Just to balance it up I've found that some 'boy racers' who think their car is more powerful than it is can be idiots too 

Having said that touch wood I've had very little abuse this year from either or anybody. It might be that I've been commuting in a mainly rural environment (finishing in town) and since the end of May I've been cycling 12 miles down the completely segregated busway into Cambridge where there's too much of a true 'critical mass' of cyclists.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

HLaB said:


> Just to balance it up I've found that some 'boy racers' who think their car is more powerful than it is can be idiots too.



You're right, but the types of cars is different now. It used to be muppets wearing baseball caps tearing about in lowered Golfs, Fiestas, and Novas with wide wheels and other visible modifications. Now the worst idiots tend to be driving standard-looking Audis with tinted windows, often white ones for some reason. They seem to have recently overtaken BMW as the knob driver's car of choice.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I get hardly any abuse. Maybe its because most of the time I'm riding a bike I'm dressed more like a workman and less like a stereotypical cyclist? Lycra really seems to get other road users backs up. Maybe they associate a solo lycra wearer with a lycra-clad club group who have taken up half the road and held them up? There is definitely something linked to how you dress and what sort of bike you ride as to whether you are regarded as fair game for abuse or not.


I'll agree with that. If they think your are riding an old banger to work because you can't afford a car it doesn't seem to bother them, but if you look like an enthusiast cycling for choice it does.


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## JPBoothy (14 Oct 2018)

classic33 said:


> Myself, it's down to speed in most cases. Above 18mph you're expected to use the road. At times I'm travelling just as quick as most of the other traffic on the roads.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the suicide lanes that seemed to be installed with little, if any thought as to how they are actually used by cyclists.
> 
> I'm not on strava, and I used five "A"roads to get to & from work for nearly three years, twice a day in each direction. The minor roads proved a bigger problem than the "A" roads. Used as short cuts by people following their satnavs.


Whoa, I wasn't trying to antagonise anybody with my comments about the 'A' roads, it just makes me cringe when I see a big monster truck bearing down on a wobbly bike! I appreciate that more experienced cyclists like yourself are more aware of your surroundings but, personally I would rather take my chances with a stray dog lead or jogger than a bleary-eyed trucker blinded by the low winter sun. Each to their own though.


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## boydj (14 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Except women drivers don't hurl aggressive highly unpleasant verbal insults at female cyclists when stationary, nothing to do with whether than can drive or not, which was my point. Except on several occasions I've also been subjected to close passes and brake testing after the verbals. farkwits



My point was primarily about the standard of driving, rather than comments being made, which I've not experienced for quite a while. I think, though, that being in the safety of their comfy car and feeling brave lets the misogynist in many young men just pop out. There seems to be a lot of it about.


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## Tizme (14 Oct 2018)

I've had two incidents of things being thrown at me, one was an egg when running (luckily it missed) and the other was a liquid, which didn't miss, the passenger was killing himself with laughter as he did it, I was hoping the vehicle would get caught at the traffic calming chicane, but naturally he ignored the "give way" and pushed through the oncoming traffic.
The worst incidents were attempts, or threats of physical violence. The first was climbing a hill on my commute to work, lovely sunny evening (going in for a night shift), got that "tingly" feeling and looked over my shoulder to see the male passenger about to smack my arse, he quickly withdrew his arm back in to the car.
The second incident involved the occupants of a "Taliban Taxi" (as the A&S Police describe old 4x4 pick ups) coming up alongside me to enable the passenger to threaten me with violence. To this day I do not know what caused it (other than they appeared to have pulled out of the pub I had just passed), I ignored them and turned off as they carried on, however they decided that that was not good enough and reversed back and headed towards me again. I cycled across to the other side of the road and jumped off the bike and they crossed the carriageway to come up alongside me. The passenger then leaned across the driver and continued to shout and swear at me. The driver realised that I was speaking to the operator on a 999 call and decided to leg it, narrowly missing a car as he did so! Unfortunately, being Somerset, I was informed there was only 2 mobile units available that evening and neither were in the area.
That was the reason I decided to get a headcam!!


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

boydj said:


> My point was primarily about the standard of driving, rather than comments being made, which I've not experienced for quite a while. I think, though, that being in the safety of their comfy car and feeling brave lets the misogynist in many young men just pop out. There seems to be a lot of it about.



I very much doubt those abusive young men just limit their verbals purely to female cyclists. Chances are they also abuse male cyclists, pedestrians of both sexes, other motorists of both sexes, and anyone else they encounter who they take a dislike to. 
Just because a woman receives some sort of abuse from a man doesn't automatically mean they got abused purely for being female. There are any number of reasons why one person may decide to dish out some verbal to someone else. Their sex may be totally irrelevant.


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## vickster (14 Oct 2018)

The only reason being they are farking thick as pig shite brainless imbeciles

Oh and that’s being complimentary


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## Slick (14 Oct 2018)

Jimidh said:


> I hardly ever get abuse and most drivers are decent and try to give you room.
> 
> However I was involved in a weird situation a few months back Egan our riding with a three other mates.
> 
> ...


Did she lose a wing mirror in the exchange? 



SkipdiverJohn said:


> Well, the majority of cycling I witness happens in London, and I would say they are the worst cyclists in terms of reckless and aggressive riding antics.
> Not many people I know have a good word to say about cyclists in general, but they have a particular degree of antipathy towards the lycra-wearing ones. "Nutters on bikes in lycra" or similar is the usual response. Casually-dressed cyclists at least seem to receive some limited tolerance, absolutely zero tolerance for lycra.


Not being funny or anything, but if you've only really witnessed cycling in one city, how do you know Londoners are the worst? How aggressive are the cyclists in Tipton, for example?


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## Cuchilo (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I get hardly any abuse. Maybe its because most of the time I'm riding a bike I'm dressed more like a workman and less like a stereotypical cyclist? Lycra really seems to get other road users backs up. Maybe they associate a solo lycra wearer with a lycra-clad club group who have taken up half the road and held them up? There is definitely something linked to how you dress and what sort of bike you ride as to whether you are regarded as fair game for abuse or not.


Never get any hassle when wearing club lycra on my very expensive carbon TT bike .


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## Pumpkin the robot (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I very much doubt those abusive young men just limit their verbals purely to female cyclists. Chances are they also abuse male cyclists, pedestrians of both sexes, other motorists of both sexes, and anyone else they encounter who they take a dislike to.
> Just because a woman receives some sort of abuse from a man doesn't automatically mean they got abused purely for being female. There are any number of reasons why one person may decide to dish out some verbal to someone else. Their sex may be totally irrelevant.




Typical masculine white male response.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Never get any hassle when wearing club lycra on my very expensive carbon TT bike .



Well, there has got to be some basis as to why some people seem to get loads of abuse and others get little or none. I really doubt it's 100% random.


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## boydj (14 Oct 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Never get any hassle when wearing club lycra on my very expensive carbon TT bike .



You're probably going too quickly to hear what they're saying when you pass them


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## vickster (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Well, there has got to be some basis as to why some people seem to get loads of abuse and others get little or none. I really doubt it's 100% random.


Prejudice, ignorance and most of all stupidity


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## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Nice bit of victim blaming there


It isn't victim blaming,


Pumpkin the robot said:


> Typical masculine white male response.


No it isn't. Skipdriver was pointing out that it is _not necessarily _because they are female that women who are cycling get abuse. The types who do this will pick on anyone they perceive to be an easy target and no threat to them. And when they are in a car and you are on a bike they hold all the cards.


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## Cuchilo (14 Oct 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> It isn't victim blaming,
> 
> No it isn't. Skipdriver was pointing out that it is _not necessarily _because they are female that women who are cycling get abuse. The types who do this will pick on anyone they perceive to be an easy target and no threat to them. And when they are in a car and you are on a bike they hold all the cards.


No they dont , you can always drag them out of the windows


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## JPBoothy (14 Oct 2018)

Tizme said:


> I've had two incidents of things being thrown at me, one was an egg when running (luckily it missed) and the other was a liquid, which didn't miss, the passenger was killing himself with laughter as he did it, I was hoping the vehicle would get caught at the traffic calming chicane, but naturally he ignored the "give way" and pushed through the oncoming traffic.
> The worst incidents were attempts, or threats of physical violence. The first was climbing a hill on my commute to work, lovely sunny evening (going in for a night shift), got that "tingly" feeling and looked over my shoulder to see the male passenger about to smack my arse, he quickly withdrew his arm back in to the car.
> The second incident involved the occupants of a "Taliban Taxi" (as the A&S Police describe old 4x4 pick ups) coming up alongside me to enable the passenger to threaten me with violence. To this day I do not know what caused it (other than they appeared to have pulled out of the pub I had just passed), I ignored them and turned off as they carried on, however they decided that that was not good enough and reversed back and headed towards me again. I cycled across to the other side of the road and jumped off the bike and they crossed the carriageway to come up alongside me. The passenger then leaned across the driver and continued to shout and swear at me. The driver realised that I was speaking to the operator on a 999 call and decided to leg it, narrowly missing a car as he did so! Unfortunately, being Somerset, I was informed there was only 2 mobile units available that evening and neither were in the area.
> That was the reason I decided to get a headcam!!


Bloody hell, that is scary! I'm pretty sure that those particular #####rs were just looking for trouble regardless of you being on a bike. You just can't tell what sort of nutter you are going to encounter these days so if a confrontation can be avoided it should be.


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## bladesman73 (14 Oct 2018)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> Typical masculine white male response.


Oh the irony of your racist and sexist response. Disgrace. I'd delete your message to avoid any further embarassment.


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## bladesman73 (14 Oct 2018)

I've had men and women of all ages either shout, gesticulate or drive aggressively in my direction over the years. No demographic comes out smelling of roses. Nobheadedness knows no age, sex, race boundaries.


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## Jimidh (14 Oct 2018)

Ofcourse she didn’t - we wouldn’t have stood up for one of our group doing that. Her issue was that a very eloquent and intelligent cyclist stood up to her and explained how badly her behaviour was which quite incensed her.[/QUOTE]


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## Slick (14 Oct 2018)

Jimidh said:


> Ofcourse she didn’t - we wouldn’t have stood up for one of our group doing that. Her issue was that a very eloquent and intelligent cyclist stood up to her and explained how badly her behaviour was which quite incensed her.


[/QUOTE]
How of course? Your initial post wasn't clear and I was wondering if you or your club had any defence like a camera maybe?


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## loopybike (14 Oct 2018)

Well, this has got a little heated!

So here's a story from my youth from the other side of the car door. Bare with me, it's a long story, but light hearted!

I was 18, at uni in bradford. My mate from school was up visiting me for the weekend. He was a punk rocker and had done a yts in car mechanics. We saw a guy in a carpark trying, and failing to start his mk1 escort. Being two helpful chaps we offered to buy it off him for £50. He excepted and we owned a car!! We actually got it going and decided to drive back to his mums house in Stoke.
(stay with me we're getting to the point of the story!)
So there we were, full of youthful excitement, feeling very pleased with ourselves, driving up the long hill just after Holmes Chapel. As we approached a group of around 10 cyclists wagging their bums climbing the hill, my mate (in the passenger seat) wound his window down.
As we passed them he leaned out and shouted "get a car!!" I looked at him and asked why he'd done that? He replied "I dunno!" and we both burst out laughing.

As we reached the top of the hill there was an odd noise from the engine, a sort of twang bang and the battery light came on. Bugger. 
I stopped the car and we checked the engine, it had thrown the fan belt. We found it when I noticed the cyclists were almost at the top of the hill! We frantically tried to refit the belt before they caught us up. It was no good, we were too slow, convinced we were going to get a good kicking. 

Well the cyclists just went by without a word. Except the one at the back. He looked at us over his shoulder and said calmly, if a little out of breath, "get a bike" 

Yes youngsters can be idiots!


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## classic33 (14 Oct 2018)

Followed by a female driver for over two miles. Sometimes too close for comfort, in slow moving traffic.

She was eventually lost thanks to a larger vehicle than what she was driving, joining Chain Bar roundabout from the M606 slip road. She'd already run one set of lights on the roundabout trying to keep up. All with her kids on board.


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## Slow But Determined (14 Oct 2018)

As the conversation seems to have departed it's original theme and gone to a male v female black v white who is the worst driver young lad or non attentive female I just thought I would bring it back on track with an incident that happened to me.

A few months ago I was happily cycling along, bearing in mind this is in the UK, wearing my Euskadi Euskatel top (Basque obviously) when a car passed me real slow and I received a load of abuse in Spanish!!!


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## slowmotion (15 Oct 2018)

Apart from the pee shooter, I was abused another time. Waiting at a railway crossing in Barnes, somebody behind me with an Ian Dury voice rasped "You've got a nice arse". I told him to f#ck off and get an eye test.


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## User16625 (15 Oct 2018)

bladesman73 said:


> Oh the irony of your racist and sexist response. Disgrace. I'd delete your message to avoid any further embarassment.



I'm a white male and I didn't find that offensive to be honest. It's just a knee jerk response not meant to be taken too literally. I will say that some stereotypes do have some valid basis to them. I'd be dammed to get specific tho.

I haven't had too much hassle overall. I was once pushed off my bike by a scumsuckin (make that drug snortin) youth once, I went to punch the pillock but other lads with him prevented me from doing so. Cant remember the details but it ended with me riding off unharmed.

What generally grips my schitt is dawdlers, be it on foot or while driving. So it surprises me not that some people go doolally when stuck behind someone that is considerably slower. I try to mitigate the risk of being on the receiving end of the same sort of feelings I often suffer by letting traffic past before pulling out to pass parked cars.


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## Arjimlad (15 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> 2018 has been by far my worst year for cycling from an abuse point of view.
> 
> I have had things thrown at me twice, one time when I gestured back almost ended in a nasty confrontation.
> 
> ...



What sort of riding do you do, chiefly ? Commuting ? Leisure ? 

Certain types of individual seem to me to have become emboldened to express their prejudices, possibly including against cyclists, by political developments.


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## bladesman73 (15 Oct 2018)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> I'm a white male and I didn't find that offensive to be honest. It's just a knee jerk response not meant to be taken too literally. I will say that some stereotypes do have some valid basis to them. I'd be dammed to get specific tho.
> 
> I haven't had too much hassle overall. I was once pushed off my bike by a scumsuckin (make that drug snortin) youth once, I went to punch the pillock but other lads with him prevented me from doing so. Cant remember the details but it ended with me riding off unharmed.
> 
> What generally grips my schitt is dawdlers, be it on foot or while driving. So it surprises me not that some people go doolally when stuck behind someone that is considerably slower. I try to mitigate the risk of being on the receiving end of the same sort of feelings I often suffer by letting traffic past before pulling out to pass parked cars.


Replace 'white' with 'black', 'male'with 'female' and ask yourself if you would be happy with the post. I would be just as disgusted.


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## confusedcyclist (15 Oct 2018)

Had my worst experience so far this year after challenging a mobile phone wielding white van driver after a seriously close pass at 50mph on a narrow bend with oncoming traffic. Normally I left this stuff go, but it was just too much. This particular thug then threatened to smack me if I didn't 'f..k off'. I didn't back down, he tried to get out of the drivers seat, I just held the door closed, then he called me a fat bar-steward (lean, 6,2 guy, seriously?) spat on me and _bravely _sped off. I caught up 100 yards down the road and called him out on his low IQ and crippling impotence and left him to stew in congested traffic.

Had I known how it might have gone, I might not have challenge this loon, and as ever this is good advice for all to follow. Get a cam, remember to turn it on just let it go, and report to police if it's worth the grief.

Putting that seriously unpleasant experience aside, it's not been any worse than any other year. In my first year, I had a small rocket launched at me near bonfire night which was upsetting, that could have been nasty, but it missed. There was also a time when a presumably unloved 10 year old with dirty clothes was shining a laser pen into the eyes of drivers and me. Some people are proper awful human beings. 99% just get on with their lives and leave cyclists to themselves, despite being slowed down for a few moments on their way elsewhere, most people aren't peanuts and don't care. Don't let the odd idiots ruin your day.


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## Johnno260 (15 Oct 2018)

Arjimlad said:


> What sort of riding do you do, chiefly ? Commuting ? Leisure ?
> 
> Certain types of individual seem to me to have become emboldened to express their prejudices, possibly including against cyclists, by political developments.



Mainly for fitness so leisure, if I have time I try to commute whenever possible.

I don’t cycle recklessly, I don’t even filter in traffic, the days I do commute I change my route to avoid certain roads for example Groombridge hill I avoid as it’s very steep and thin, so no room to pass me, even though I like the hill for its challenge.

Edit: I would also consider my self considerate of other road users, if there are cars behind me I go close to the curb, if there is a small lay-by I go into it to allow others to pass, and at temporary traffic lights I will go inside the cones to not impede others.


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## Bad Company (16 Oct 2018)

mustang1 said:


> The other day I managed to finally use my excellent one liner (that I learned right here on cc). The driver told/asked me why don't I use the bike.lame so I told him I would use the bike lane when he uses the motorway. That was wonderful!



Really, why was it wonderful?


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## Shut Up Legs (16 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> if there are cars behind me I go close to the curb


You're not improving your own safety by doing that.


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## Johnno260 (16 Oct 2018)

Shut Up Legs said:


> You're not improving your own safety by doing that.



I know, but I’m just trying to avoid any further incidents, the wet iron work is like ice at the moment when it’s wet, and there is a risk of catching a pedal on a high curb. 

It’s that or drive to the cuckoo trail and cycle up and down there, which is something I’m actually considering


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## Heltor Chasca (16 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> Mainly for fitness so leisure, if I have time I try to commute whenever possible.
> 
> I don’t cycle recklessly, I don’t even filter in traffic, the days I do commute I change my route to avoid certain roads for example Groombridge hill I avoid as it’s very steep and thin, so no room to pass me, even though I like the hill for its challenge.
> 
> Edit: I would also consider my self considerate of other road users, if there are cars behind me I go close to the curb, if there is a small lay-by I go into it to allow others to pass, and at temporary traffic lights I will go inside the cones to not impede others.



I also consider myself a considerate rider, but from years of experience and three collisions with cars I would NEVER go close to the curb. Take primary. 

I do agree about pulling into lay-bys though. You’ll get loads of thank-you-toots, smiles and waves for doing this.


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## Randombiker9 (16 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> 2018 has been by far my worst year for cycling from an abuse point of view.
> 
> I have had things thrown at me twice, one time when I gestured back almost ended in a nasty confrontation.
> 
> ...


Do you confront them because if so don't because that will make things worse. Just ignore it and if it gets too much just too report them to the police.


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## Johnno260 (16 Oct 2018)

Randombiker9 said:


> Do you confront them because if so don't because that will make things worse. Just ignore it and if it gets too much just too report them to the police.



I shouted back and one instance of an item being thrown become a confrontation, it almost turned nasty but other motorists pulled over and told the kids to get lost as they had seen something being thrown.

I promised my wife I wouldn't help escalate an issue like this again, it's hard not to throw back a retort though.


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## Arjimlad (16 Oct 2018)

Would camera-ing up provide you with a bit more peace of mind?

If anything happens you are then more likely to be able to hold the perpetrator accountable. 

I got sick of close passes. Having a camera on the commute enabled me to report the worst ones and also realise that they don't happen as often as I thought.


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## Johnno260 (16 Oct 2018)

Arjimlad said:


> Would camera-ing up provide you with a bit more peace of mind?
> 
> If anything happens you are then more likely to be able to hold the perpetrator accountable.
> 
> I got sick of close passes. Having a camera on the commute enabled me to report the worst ones and also realise that they don't happen as often as I thought.



That's certainly possible, and something I will consider, but I would use it every ride I think.


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## Bazzer (16 Oct 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> That's certainly possible, and something I will consider, *but I would use it every ride I think*.



There is nothing wrong with that. Mine gets switched on in the same hand stroke as the Garmin.


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## Vantage (16 Oct 2018)

Someone on a different forum asked the question if when using a camera, did the users then go looking for incidents to report. At the time, I was one of a few to answer 'no' citing the reason that they do not provide an invisible force field and so to go looking for incidents was stupid.
The problem, is that when I think back to when I used the cams, in a small way I did actually hope one of the motoring drones would do something stupid just so I could get the ba***rd.
I've since put the cams away and ride happier for it.
It might be worth also checking what your local bobby station might do in the event that you do catch driving stupidity/selfishness and report it. In the case of Greater Manchester Police, it'll be sweet f*** all unless you're splattered over the offending drivers car window and bonnet.


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## Nonethewiser (16 Oct 2018)

I have to say that I have found the vast majority of local drivers to be fine (touching wood), this is a semi-rural area and there are a good number of cyclists out and about especially at weekends. One thing that has brought a bit of verbal, however, is riding two abreast.


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## classic33 (16 Oct 2018)

Vantage said:


> Someone on a different forum asked the question if when using a camera, did the users then go looking for incidents to report. At the time, I was one of a few to answer 'no' citing the reason that they do not provide an invisible force field and so to go looking for incidents was stupid.
> The problem, is that when I think back to when I used the cams, in a small way I did actually hope one of the motoring drones would do something stupid just so I could get the ba***rd.
> I've since put the cams away and ride happier for it.
> It might be worth also checking what your local bobby station might do in the event that you do catch driving stupidity/selfishness and report it. In the case of Greater Manchester Police, it'll be sweet f*** all unless you're splattered over the offending drivers car window and bonnet.


There's the chance they'll look for someone else if there's a chance their actions could be caught on camera.

You can also use the camera to review your ride. All those bits you missed as you flew past them.


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## DaveReading (16 Oct 2018)

classic33 said:


> You can also use the camera to review your ride. All those bits you missed as you flew past them.



And if you've forgotten the rule that your bike is going to go in the direction you're looking, you'll get a wonderful action replay of the result.


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## MikeG (16 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Frankly, it's a fact of life for a larger lady on a bike  Especially from young men who've souped up their mum's hatchback and left the family braincell at home



Another forum on which I post has a system of nominating posts to be voted on once a month, in two categories: The Language Awards, for quality, well thought out and well written posts, and Pith Awards, for saying something succinctly and pithily. I read this post, and I looked immediately for the "Nominate" button. Well said.


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## mustang1 (17 Oct 2018)

Bad Company said:


> Really, why was it wonderful?



I felt I was about to be enlightened as to why he would not use the motorway (it's his choice) yet his line of questioning was that I should be using the bike lane (it's my choice).


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## Jody (17 Oct 2018)

fossyant said:


> Promote your chosen transport by being courteous to others. fairly simple ! Ignore the idiots.


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## JPBoothy (17 Oct 2018)

Jody said:


> View attachment 434304



Good luck with that advise. I was once foolish enough to post a similar question asking why people don't acknowlege other cyclists and walkers. Blimey, talk about poking a hornets nest! I hadn't realised that there were so many grumpy people out there.

The grump champion though has to be a chap from work that I was riding with oneaSunday morning and he asked why I say hello to people. Because it's nice to be friendly was my reply. His reply to me was "###k em, they don't say it to me!"


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## DCBassman (17 Oct 2018)

JPBoothy said:


> Good luck with that advise. I was once foolish enough to post a similar question asking why people don't acknowlege other cyclists and walkers. Blimey, talk about poking a hornets nest! I hadn't realised that there were so many grumpy people out there.
> 
> The grump champion though has to be a chap from work that I was riding with oneaSunday morning and he asked why I say hello to people. Because it's nice to be friendly was my reply. His reply to me was "###k em, they don't say it to me!"



Jeepers, and here's me thinking I'm Mr Grumpy!
I do do mumble/nod thing usually. The ride before last, I actually had a conversation, twice, with another cyclist! Ok, it was the same guy both times, but still...


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## Shut Up Legs (18 Oct 2018)

DaveReading said:


> And if you've forgotten the rule that your bike is going to go in the direction you're looking, you'll get a wonderful action replay of the result.


Unless of course you're aware of the "target fixation" effect, and consciously compensate for it.


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## Levo-Lon (18 Oct 2018)

Phaeton said:


> I don't get abuse on the roads I find everybody is pleasant, it's on here where I get insults thrown at me




You need to get out more ya fecking egit


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## Levo-Lon (18 Oct 2018)

I get more naughty kids commenting using the work route, mind you there all over the cycle lane and footpath..so i tend to give em shyte too


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