# Soensport or Soens Brothers Name Transfer



## Campfire (26 Aug 2012)

I've just unearthed my old Soensport 1970s road bike from the back of the garage. It was unfortunately resprayed in the 1970s so lost it's transfer. Does anyone know where I can get either a Soensport transfer or Soens brothers might be OK, in case I want to re-enamel it. The history of the bike is, it belonged to Pete Matthews when he was Merseyside RR Champion. He sold it to my Dad and then Dad gave it to me. There was a guy at York Cycle Show who sold vintage bike transfers but I've lost his card

I cleaned it up today and went for a few miles on it and couldn't believe how much easier it was to ride than my Orange Clockwork (which itself is good) A big of adjustment to the narrow bars. I'd love a newer road bike with a smaller frame but that's just a luxury I can't have at the moment unless someone can sell me one cheaply.


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## Crackle (26 Aug 2012)

Found this blog posts which mentions someone restoring a Soens who purchased the Decals

http://merseysidebicycles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/1946-jim-soens-frameset.html

Might be worth contacting them to see where from.


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## pubrunner (27 Aug 2012)

Campfire said:


> I've just unearthed my old Soensport 1970s road bike from the back of the garage. It was unfortunately resprayed in the 1970s so lost it's transfer. Does anyone know where I can get either a Soensport transfer or Soens brothers might be OK, in case I want to re-enamel it.


 
The link that Crackle has given you, is probably your best bet.

If you have no luck, you could try here : http://www.hlloydcycles.com/

The Soens brothers had their own individual transfers - Jimmy Soens, Tommy Soens and Eddie Soens. *Eddie Soens* had a shop that was called Soensport, so if you can't find Soensport transfers, look for those for Eddie Soens, as they would be entirely appropriate.

If you get it re-enamelled, the frame will almost certainly have originally been done by *C & G Finishes* of Liverpool; the company is still doing such work . . . . . . http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/c---g-finishes-13234313.html

I've never used C & G Finishes, but they have an excellent reputation in the cycling world.


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## Campfire (28 Aug 2012)

Thanks Crackle and Pubrunner. II used to go into Eddie Soens shop with a friend. I used to race with one of the Soens girls, not sure which one. The bike used to be blue metallic and had the requisite scratches to paintwork that come from road racing. Sadly in those days I wanted it smart and got a friend to respray it.


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## Bill Soens (19 Nov 2012)

Campfire said:


> Thanks Crackle and Pubrunner. II used to go into Eddie Soens shop with a friend. I used to race with one of the Soens girls, not sure which one. The bike used to be blue metallic and had the requisite scratches to paintwork that come from road racing. Sadly in those days I wanted it smart and got a friend to respray it.


 

Hello all. Nice to read all the above. My name is Bill Soens - 75 year old son of the late Eddie Soens and I owned the bike shop in Boaler St, Liverpool.

Sorry to advise the person who is looking for Eddie Soens or SoenSport transfers but I simply ran out of them and didn't renew when I closed the shop down in the mid 60's.

For your information there were three Soens bike shops - all of who were independent of the others. I built almost all of my own frames- it was only within the last five years that I threw away my old jigs. I did buy in a small number of italian cheap frames in the rough but not more than fifteen and I built over 800. If you look under the bottom bracket you should see a 3 digit number from 001 to over 800. If you can't see it then It isn't one of mine. 

Soens Bros ltd was run by two uncles - Tommy and Dougie - both of whom were painters and decorators. Neither built a single frame in their life - most of their frames were Holdsworth and painted/badged Soens Bros or Tommy Soens. The famous picture of Tommy Simpson on a Tommy Soens was almost certainly a Holdsworth.

It is still going on - nothing wrong in it.

Jim Soens had his shop in Lower Breck Rd Liverpool 6. He built all his own bikes but whether Peter Matthews carried on this I cannot say.

C and G finishes were superb and were able to hand-write the names on frames. Whether they can still do this I don't know. I am going back fifty years. Best of luck. Bill Soens


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## pubrunner (19 Nov 2012)

Bill Soens said:


> Hello all. Nice to read all the above. My name is Bill Soens - 75 year old son of the late Eddie Soens and I owned the bike shop in Boaler St, Liverpool.


 
Hi Bill & welcome to the forum !

Your contribution(s) are much appreciated !



Bill Soens said:


> . . . . . . . Soens Bros ltd was run by two uncles - Tommy and Dougie - both of whom were painters and decorators. Neither built a single frame in their life - most of their frames were *Holdsworth* and painted/badged Soens Bros or Tommy Soens. The famous picture of Tommy Simpson on a Tommy Soens was almost certainly a Holdsworth.


 
A friend of mine has a Tommy Soens - I'm sure that he doesn't know that they didn't make their own frames.

Was a relation of yours a cycling team manager ? A close friend of mine was a decent time triallist back in the 50s (Mick Ward) and I'm sure that he mentioned the Soens name - I'll have to ask him again.

I missed out on a Merseyside frame by Bill Twiddle - I was only interested in it, 'cos I liked the name. I now wonder if that was a Holdsworth frame  .


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## Bill Soens (20 Nov 2012)

Gosh you are going back a bit ! Yes I remember Bill Twiddle and I believe that he built his own frames. At that time just after the war there were many local small builders.

Sorry about your friend's bike. It is not impossible that I built it. I did a few for Tommy Soens but not many. You will need the serial number under the bottom bracket and then I should be able to confirm. After I closed the business a number of my frames were painted over with other people's names.

There were a couple or so riders named Ward. I think I remember one who I was going to thump ! It was in the Isle of Man and I had just lost the 2 lap race by puncturing when away on my own; after changing the tyre I was in the sprint for a minor place and some guy named Ward I think took all my spokes out of the front wheel ! Not a happy day.

The cycling manager/coach you are thinking of was my late father Eddie Soens. Until this current group came along he was the most successful cycling coach the country ever had, being responsible for many World Champions, etc. 

Cheers. Bill Soens.


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## pubrunner (20 Nov 2012)

Bill Soens said:


> Gosh you are going back a bit ! Yes I remember Bill Twiddle and I believe that he built his own frames. At that time just after the war there were many local small builders.


 
Yes, I believe that there were quite a few Merseyside builders . . . . . . . I'd love a Fothergill frame - if I could find one. There were also some good builders in Manchester - I'd love a Johnny Berry frame too. Basically, I find it hard to resist an old steel frame in my size - I find it rewarding to try and get them back on the road. Trouble is, because so many of these old frames sell for so little money, I've no 'excuse' to stop buying them - rather to the annoyance of my missus  .

I'm actually considering, 'saving up' with the possible aim of getting an early titanium frame - Speedwell or Teledyne . . .any knowledge of those ? Or, of course, for the same money, I could probably buy 3 or 4 steel frames  - decisions, decisions.



Bill Soens said:


> The cycling manager/coach you are thinking of was my late father Eddie Soens. Until this current group came along he was the most successful cycling coach the country ever had, being responsible for many World Champions, etc.


 
Yes, I read somewhere, that he was especially good at finding talented riders and training them to the highest levels; I believe that many riders remember him for his motivational abilities.

Now Bill, when's the book coming out ?


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## Bill Soens (20 Nov 2012)

To respond to both of the above two inputs. I remember Johnny Berry frames very well. They were particularly well made with beautifully filed down intricate lugs - essentially works of art, good shape and handling. Most of the top riders from the Manchester Wheelers rode them. As a young person at that time - I was only 20 when I took over a shop owned by Aussie Hurlen - I was influenced by Italian frames, purely because of Fausto Coppi etc. They had simple, smooth sweeping lugs and I had little time for fancy work. Efficient shape, performance and handling were all that mattered and after I had moved on from the Nervex fancy lugs I never went back to them; for that matter most builders did the same.

At that time many frames were hopelessly inefficient, wrong shape for handling on both the road and track; fork rakes that didn't match the head angle for "trail". It was common to have to prise open the front forks to get a wheel in and the older drop-outs wouldn't take Campag hub spindles so had to be filed out and then they were too thin for quick release !!! It took many years for some builders to learn - some never did. Nowadays you can go into any store and buy a bike off the shelf and it will be the right shape for handling and this applies to bikes of all price ranges. That's the way it should be - it's just as easy to build something of the right shape as the wrong shape.

As for finding a Fothergill - try eBay or www.merseysidebicycles/blogspot.co.uk

Sorry, no book coming out. Writing the odd article for a magazine or whatever is one thing but to undertake all the research to fill a book is quite another. Few things though:-

Eddie Soens was born August 27th 1912 (would have been 100 a couple of month's back) in Liverpool. His father my Grandad, had the first (or second) racing bike shop in the city before 1900 - it was always debated whether R.J.Wilson was first. He left school at 13 and went as an apprentice French Polisher. In the mid/late 1930s he broke the British 50 mile tandem paced track record - peculiar event that no longer exists. Married Mima Osborne and I came along a year later. Was called up for WWII and served in India/Burma against the Japanese, achieving the rank of Regimental Sergeant Major. Demobbed 1946 he went straight back to cycling and french polishing !

Whilst he raced a little again he generated towards coaching his club-mates. How and why he had this in-built ability and knowledge I have no idea since he had only the most rudimentary education but he had the ability to motivate people beyond their own beliefs. His first success was a man named George Booth who quickly became a local top man but this was cut short when he was killed in a car crash - tragically ironic for one who had seen WWII military action.

Others came along for help - he never approached anyone. They all came to him without exception and the most famous at that time was Norman Sheil, a teenager with a prodigious talent. 

Bear in mind that there was no support from any organisation and a huge number of barriers thrown up from the blazer brigade. It is impossible for people now to grasp the attitudes of some officialese of that time. Sheil had equalled or beaten the British 4,000 metre record at Fallowfield but when he tried to get a ride at Herne Hill was told by the relevant personnel that "we don't take any notice of times from the North "!!! Much arguing got the ride and Sheil went on to win the National Championship beating Peter Brotherton. He then went on to win the Commonwealth Games and then the World Championship individual pursuit in 1955 and again in 1958. 

This was the beginning and the list of riders who came to him is too long for this column. Shortened version would include John Geddes, Beryl Burton, Charly McCoy, Barry Hoban, Harry Middleton,Doug Dailey, Dave Lloyd, Viking team, Gordon Singleton and just before his death in August 1985 Paul McHugh. 

In addition, athletes from other sports came through his front door, most notably Geoff Smith who won the Boston Marathon a couple of times.

All of the above was undertaken from his own house with no financial reward until the very end of his life when the BCF began to reimburse people for their time.

He received no official recognition. Had he been doing the same thing now he would doubtless be in the honours' list but his attitude to certain officials was uncompromising, making a small number of adversaries. There was only one opinion and that was his ! Anything else was "wrong". The riders idolised him, a small number of certain influential personnel did not.

Different world now and so it should be. How wonderful it is to see the current successes. At Eddie Soens' funeral some people suggested some form of memorial - it exists in the Aintree race in March. In my speech I held up Gordon Singleton's rainbow jersey and suggested that the greatest tribute to him would be to fill jersies like this with British riders - he would be delighted now. Bill Soens


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## bobg (20 Nov 2012)

Bill, Thanks for the fascinating insight into Soens bikes. Having noticed your reference to 1 -800 being yours I rushed down to the garage and checked mine " SOE 1318" so am I right in thinking it's a Holdsworth? The decals just say "SOENS" Whoever built it spent a lot of time filing the lugs, they're beautifully graduated into tje 531C tubing and the lining is as fine as I've seen. Strangly short 21 1'2 " top tube with makes it lovely and sensitive to ride for someone with short arms like me! It's been really good to hear about the family,
Kind regards
Bob


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## Bill Soens (21 Nov 2012)

No, it isn't a Holdsworth. This is a genuine "Soens" built by my late uncle Jim Soens, who opened his bike shop in Lower Breck Rd Liverpool 6 in 1936. Since his was the only Soens business until late 1957 he simply called his bike "Soens" and he hand built all his own frames. The shop was taken over by Peter Matthews in the 1970's I think. It no longer exists as a bike shop but as a local small grocers ! The paint work would have been done by C and G Finishes of Back Faulkner ST South. Liverpool 7 and it would have been a slightly later bike since 531C was later than simple 531. In all likelihood the short top tube is as a result of making the seat angle steeper than average. Cheers. Bill Soens


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## cisamcgu (21 Nov 2012)

Bill,

Thank you so much for the insight into the Liverpool frame builders. My father had a Forthergill from the 50's which he resurrected and used in the 70's and 80's before moving on to other frames - he still rides although gave up racing in the last few years. I had a Quinn Bros (It wasn't 531 though, maybe something called 530 or 531C ? ) from the 80's, almost certainly a rebadged Holdsworth, but remember it fondly.

I recollect many happy hours spent in Walvale cycles, Quinns (both Harry and the Brothers) and other shops around the area included Soens, although which of the three I cannot recall, lusting after Campag equipment, but never able to afford it 

I think the above link should be http://merseysidebicycles.blogspot.co.uk/

Kindest regards
Andrew


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## Scilly Suffolk (22 Nov 2012)

Bill,

Many thanks for taking the time to contribute here: fascinating reading.

I don't suppose you could tell me anything of Ian May?

All I know, is that he died quite young and had a reputation as an "experimental" frame builder.

Kind regards,

Jim.


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## Bill Soens (22 Nov 2012)

Sorry. Regretfully I know nothing of Ian May, but thanks for asking.

Bill Soens.


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## Lee Matthews (23 Nov 2012)

Hi, My dad is Pete Matthews and he is interested in having a chat with you. Log on to www.petematthews.com, and his phone number is on the website.
Regards


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## Bill Soens (23 Nov 2012)

thank you for that information. Bill.


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## dan_bo (23 Nov 2012)

Bill Soens said:


> Hello all. Nice to read all the above. My name is Bill Soens - 75 year old son of the late Eddie Soens and I owned the bike shop in Boaler St, Liverpool.
> 
> Sorry to advise the person who is looking for Eddie Soens or SoenSport transfers but I simply ran out of them and didn't renew when I closed the shop down in the mid 60's.
> 
> ...




Err wow!

Hiya!

Whaddya mean you THREW AWAY THE JIGS?


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## Bill Soens (24 Nov 2012)

Simple. No longer had any use for them; they couldn't be used for anything other than older steel frames with older specifications etc. No good for Carbon fibre or alloy etc. I'm a widower in my twilight years and someone is going to have to clear all my years of junk away, so I took them and many other things to the tip !


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## Bill Soens (24 Nov 2012)

Further to the above and before anyone jumps up and down shouting "sacrilege", the jigs were not expensive Campag or Var but "home-made" by the late Aussie Hurlen and had rusted away in my garage for forty years ! When I was writing for the now defunct magazine "International Cycle Sport" I visited a number of builders when I was doing bike tests and I saw jigs far better than I had ever had, particularly in Harry Hall and Terry Dolan's businesses. The final outcome bikes were no better, but the manufacture must have been far easier.


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## bobg (25 Nov 2012)

May I echo everyone elses thanks for your contributions here Bill, it really is greatly appreciated.
All the very best and thanks for the info about my Soens
Bob


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## Red Rose (1 Dec 2012)

Bill,
It's been fascinating to read your stories, so thank you for contributing. I'm also new to this forum and have a Soens frame - at least that's what the decals state, and they look to have been there a long time. In the past, a previous owner has stuck your dad's name on the down tube in vinyl lettering, so it must be someone who was a fan of his or knew of him. I've posted some photos in the newbie section, but to save you looking, here are a couple.















The frame has some quite nicley shaped lugs, AGRATI fork ends and dropouts, but no frame number under the bottom bracket. It's a long shot, but perhaps you could shed some light on its origins.I hope so.

best regards to you

Steve


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## Bill Soens (8 Dec 2012)

Red Rose said:


> Bill,
> It's been fascinating to read your stories, so thank you for contributing. I'm also new to this forum and have a Soens frame - at least that's what the decals state, and they look to have been there a long time. In the past, a previous owner has stuck your dad's name on the down tube in vinyl lettering, so it must be someone who was a fan of his or knew of him. I've posted some photos in the newbie section, but to save you looking, here are a couple.
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Steve.

Thank you for your request and sorry for the delay. Sorry to advise you that this is definitely not an Eddie Soens and there is a conflict with the two names/transfers but I note that you say that someone has fitted their own vinyl lettering on the down tube. 

Both the head tube and seat tube indicate that this was built by Jim Soens of Lower Breck Rd, Liverpool 6. These are original transfers without doubt and it is not unreasonable to assume that it is an authentic "Soens" -( i.e. Jim Soens, not Eddie Soens) with certain reservations. Also I never, ever, put pump pegs under the top tube - just about the worst place you can put them.

The lugs are Nervex but not filed down that much which would have been a little unusual for Jim Soens - he did taper them in a bit more than that. Tacking the seat stays on to the seat lug without curving the top eyes is not Jim Soens style either - so it is not impossible that we have a bought-in frame in the rough and then having it badged, but this doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with it in any way. There is no proof of anything now of course. The only 100% guarantee is that it is not an Eddie Soens. I certainly didn't build this frame. Cheers. Bill Soens


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## BJH (28 Jan 2013)

Wow that brings back memories. I remember being smitten by a Jim Soens bike that a friend of my brother had in a beautiful dark green. He had bought it used and had it fixed up at the shop (I suspect I would have been 9 or 10 so around 1971 or so)
I was then bought my first 5 gear racer which was a "Kerry Clasique" in a burnt orange colour. Fixing this up over the next couple of years seemed to involve needing to spend lots of time in the Jim Soens shop or Harry Quinns.
That green bike was given away to a friend of mine when the owner bought an unheard of 10 speed bike and I was as jealous as hell!!!!
Those shops were absolutely fascinating as a kid, the Harry Quinn frames seemed to be in every colour under the sun, what I would have given for one of those bikes in my early teens.


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## Paddy Lloyd (6 Feb 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> Hello all. Nice to read all the above. My name is Bill Soens - 75 year old son of the late Eddie Soens and I owned the bike shop in Boaler St, Liverpool.
> 
> Sorry to advise the person who is looking for Eddie Soens or SoenSport transfers but I simply ran out of them and didn't renew when I closed the shop down in the mid 60's.
> 
> ...


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## Paddy Lloyd (6 Feb 2013)

Bill Soens,
I still have in my garage, a 1959/69 EDDIE SOENS TT BIKE, originally in orange, but changed to white,orange lustre & chrome because the gear hanger broke off, in1961. Will have to dig out and find the frame number


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## ceepeebee (6 Feb 2013)

This thread is pretty much everything that's right about the Internet. Thanks Bill


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## bjellys (7 Feb 2013)

Bill Soens

You can walk past people in the street and never know the knowledge they carry, thank you for this post it is one of the best I have seen on here.


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## Norman Thomas (29 Oct 2013)

Wow - how all these comments take me back! I rode an Eddie Soens frame back in the late 60's. I bought it as a complete bike - painted silver - and had it re-enammelled bright yellow by C&G Finishes (great to see the references to their superb work). I and a close schoolfriend used to spend our Saturday mornings riding to all the Liverpool bike shops to see what frames they had in, ogle at the latest Campag equipment, and buy a new copy of the Holdsworthy Rider's Aids catalogue when it came out. This was before I had the Soens bike - and was riding an old frame - re-enammelled Flamboyant Plum (as a Christmas present from my parents) by C&G to make it look presentable but I couldn't afford transfers or any other "extras" at C&G. It was fitted with begged and borrowed parts. I rode a 52-tooth Stronglight chain wheel with a 12 tooth fixed gear and a single front brake. I didn't have the money for gears and the 12 tooth sprocket was the cheapest you could buy. I rode that bike to school for 5 years before a part-time job allowed me to buy the (second-hand) Soens. Our Saturday morning schoolboy rides took us to Walvale and Harry Quinn on Walton Vale, then up to the other Harry Quinn shop on County Road. From there we would ride to (I think) Pete Matthews shop in Lower Breck Road and then to Quinn Brothers on Edge Lane, and Soens in Boaler Street on the way home. I also remember stopping at another shop on Rice Lane (I think) that sold Bob Jackson frames. They were happy times.


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## Bill Soens (29 Oct 2013)

Interesting nostalgia above but I think Mr Thomas may have his dates slightly wrong on one point only. When I closed down Eddie Soens Cycles in mid to late 1960's my Uncle Jim (Jim Soens cycles) was still in existence. It was until a little later that Peter Matthews took over the business. Don't know the business on Rice Lane, sorry. Are you absolutely sure that you used a 52x12 gear ? This would have given you a 117 inch gear which Chris Hoy would have difficulty in moving !


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## uphillstruggler (29 Oct 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> Simple. No longer had any use for them; they couldn't be used for anything other than older steel frames with older specifications etc. No good for Carbon fibre or alloy etc. I'm a widower in my twilight years and someone is going to have to clear all my years of junk away, so I took them and many other things to the tip !


 
unbelievable! what a shame.

Bill it is a pleasure to hear these stories, thanks for your memories


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## Tony Smith (29 Oct 2013)

Uphill/Bill,
I think the business on Rice Lane, was actually Walvale of Walton Vale. If you continue along Rice Lane (A59) towards Aintree Rice Lane changes to Walton Vale, then Warbreck Moor. Walvale had a shop on the right hand side of Walton Vale (next door but one to what is now Wetherspoons). They had many an excellent frame builder through their doors and a Bob Jackson wouldn't have been out of place.
If your still on the look out for a Fothergill PM me and I'll show you some photos


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## fossyant (29 Oct 2013)

My Herety was enamelled by C&G back in about 1990.


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## Tony Smith (29 Oct 2013)

C&G still have a continuous line of frames being refurbed


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## biggs682 (29 Oct 2013)

this is what make cycle chat so good


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## Rickshaw Phil (29 Oct 2013)

This thread makes me wonder whether a sticky with the names and links to restorers and useful classic parts suppliers might be a good idea.


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## Norman Thomas (30 Oct 2013)

Hi Bill (Soens), thanks for your comments about my nostalgic rumblings. You were right about the 52/12 gear. Now I think about it, the Stronglight chain set was 52/48, and it was the 48 that I rode with the 12 tooth sprocket. It was still hard work but fortunately my school journey was fairly flat - from Knowsley Road in Bootle to Marion Way in Netherton. The joy of having 10 speeds on my Eddie Soens when I finally got it was indescribable. You mentioned me having the dates wrong with regard to Pete Matthews shop. I'm sure you're right. I put the words "I think" before that section because it was the one thing I wasn't entirely sure about. Everything else seems crystal clear to me 50 years later. A later blogger talks about my reference to a shop on Rice Lane. I'm not getting it confused with Walvale. Both Harry Quinn and Walvale had shops on the East side of Walton Vale. The Quinn ship was at the junction where traffic came down from Orrell Park station. Walvale was further along opposite Woolworths or thereabouts. The Rice Lane shop that I was referring to was close to Spellow Lane library - on the same side of the road. I remember seeing Bob Jackson frames in the window on the way walking to Goodison Park for a place in the Boys' Pen. If nobody else remembers that shop I probably dreamt it!! Wouldn't be the first time that has happened. By the way, I did a bit of digging on Google and found a place where you can download a pdf version of the Bike Riders Aids catalogue - it makes for fascinating reading. I can remember most of the pictures in the 1964-5 version. You can find it at threespeedhub.com


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## biggs682 (30 Oct 2013)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> Bill,
> 
> Many thanks for taking the time to contribute here: fascinating reading.
> 
> ...


@Scilly Suffolk you have just answered a question for me on this old post .

i bought an Ian May bike not long ago and have been trying to get hold of him to find out what frame material was used . @Tony Smith


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## Sterba (30 Oct 2013)

Bill, you have made a wonderful contribution to the history of British frame making. One day soon , these old hand-built steel bikes are going to be revered as a pinnacle of British engineering, alongside Norton, Aston Martin, Bentley and Lotus. Your reminiscences are invaluable, keep sharing them on Cyclechat whenever you can. They are fascinating because they will otherwise go unrecorded. Thank you.


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## Tony Smith (1 Nov 2013)

Yes,, Jim is correct. Ian May died aged only 37. I was told that he still traded in shotblasting and wrought iron on the Wirral , but wrong guy.

I agree with Sterba, the history of hand made cycles is important to document, we've lost such a lot of possible documentation but those princes amongst men, the like of Bill Soens, remain thankfully to educate us enthusiasts young and old


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## Owd Fella (6 Nov 2013)

Paddy Lloyd said:


> Bill Soens,
> I still have in my garage, a 1959/69 EDDIE SOENS TT BIKE, originally in orange, but changed to white,orange lustre & chrome because the gear hanger broke off, in1961. Will have to dig out and find the frame number


Paddy, if you read this, I remember you parking that bike outside the coffee bar in King St. You wanted it in White but Eddie only let 'fast men' (like Charly McCoy) have White bikes - or so you said.

Are you sure you've got the dates right? I thought it was later than that ('61?).


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## michael heaton (23 Nov 2013)

Hi Bill, 
It's many, many years since we last met. Fortunately the tinnitus has now faded away after your cuffs around the head administered in the workshop at Boaler St - no doubt I deserved them for being cheeky!

It was fifty years ago today (excuse the Beatles reprise) that the last Melling Wheelers Annual Dinner took place before the club metamorphosed into Kirkby CC.

After the death of Ken Mathews, Stan Birkett rescued a lot of the Melling/Kirkby cine film and had it digitised. He has put on YouTube the film of that evening. You, Eddie, Mima all appear along with many 'notables' including a very young looking Doug Dailey and a glimpse of an equally young looking James Soens. Stan has promised that after Xmas he will post more Kirkby memories on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BWwDkYSorvg

I have lived in Thailand for the last ten years, 2kms from The Bridge over the River Kwai. Still riding my MtB regularly and was racing mainly off-road up until recently. Over the years have covered around 50,000 kms of tracks and trails in Thailand, often sleeping in Temples or schools on longer rides.

I'm still in touch with Keith (Loony), Ernie, Geoff Magnay (Gallopin Hairpin), Doug, etc. and ride with them when back in the U.K.

If you contact me on Facebook or at mcheaton@hotmail.com. I will send you some recent pics of the 'lads'.

I hope you are keeping well.

Warm regards, Michael Heaton - thag


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## Owd Fella (28 Nov 2013)

Hi Mike, I think I remember you riding road races on Merseyside and North Wales? I was in Wrexham RC and recollect all the guys in the film - 'Scobie' Beesley, Ernie Potter, a very young looking Keith Boardman way before Chris was even a twinkle. Billy Whiteside had a huge accident at Onchan track in 1967 right in front of me when he broadsided someone (was it Ernie??), I had to take to the infield to avoid them. Great piece of film, it should be used as a piece of social history looking at all the ladies fashions (and some of the mens'!).

Please let us know when the rest of the films are posted!


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## Bill Soens (12 Dec 2013)

Hello each. Nice to hear from Mike Heaton - living in Thailand ! It is some months since I accessed this site. Normally when someone posts some form of reply/blog/whatever I receive an email advising me and I am able to respond. This hasn't happened recently.

Now in my twilight years I am a member of U3A and they started up a local Facebook page which I joined under my own name "William Soens". I have been contacted by people I knew in Caesar's time and I have recently seen the video indicated above regarding the Melling Wlrs club dinner 1963. I shall transfer it to DVD and view it on the big screen, although this may not be a good thing looking at me now !

A couple of weeks ago I did a filmed interview for the local university regarding cycling from the end of the war until about 1970. Whilst for use by the university if anything comes to the public domain I shall let anyone know who might be interested - since it's me, probably no-one ! Bill


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## raindog (13 Dec 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> A couple of weeks ago I did a filmed interview for the local university regarding cycling from the end of the war until about 1970. Whilst for use by the university if anything comes to the public domain I shall let anyone know who might be interested - since it's me, probably no-one ! Bill


it would be good if that could be put up on youtube


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## Bill Soens (13 Dec 2013)

Don't know of the legal or copyright situation. At 2 hours it would be far too long for YouTube. Will see what happens.


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## pubrunner (19 Dec 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> Don't know of the legal or copyright situation. At 2 hours it would be far too long for YouTube. Will see what happens.



@Bill Soens

There's one here on Ebay, that might interest you, Bill. I'd imagine, it's a pretty rare beast.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fixie-Tan...rbished-/271346907197?clk_rvr_id=562489684556

Just spotted another, (older) tandem for sale; it's not too far from me 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-t...d-gears-/231115779981?clk_rvr_id=562494952334

^^^ Make an interesting project, but I've too much on the go, at the moment.


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## Bill Soens (19 Dec 2013)

Thanks for that. Someone else had alerted me to the Soens tandem. It is a Jim Soens.


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## OldCanal (20 Dec 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> Thanks for that. Someone else had alerted me to the Soens tandem. It is a Jim Soens.


Hello Bill, I've just posted my first 'intro' on the Welcome Mat thread. In it, I mention that I purchased my first hand built frame from your uncle, Jim Soens, in 1958. It took 2 years of paper rounds and Saturday jobs (at the Co-Op in London Road) and I was so proud when I handed over my £13.15.0 in old money. I'll post a pic of me and my pride and joy after I clear the forum 'induction process'. It's good to read your comments about times gone by.


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## DonSchwann (6 Aug 2014)

Newly listed Jim Soens on eBay if anyone's interested! I would be, but don't have the funds at the moment…


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

DonSchwann said:


> Newly listed Jim Soens on eBay if anyone's interested! I would be, but don't have the funds at the moment…
> 
> I am now the very VERY fortunate owner of this piece. Carrying the 'lucky' frame number of 777.


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## Bill Soens (19 Aug 2014)

This is very interesting. The frame number 777 looks like one of mine (Eddie Soens/SoenSport) but obviously after more than 50 years one cannot be sure. Jim Soens cycles would normally have had a different number than that, using letters as well as numbers, since he had been in business since 1934 0r 36. It was not unusual for bike owners and/or dealers to have frames re-sprayed with a different name - in particular with an almost identical name - Jim Soens was my father's brother. Either way, it is of no importance. It is a classic built bike from roughly 1960-63, with Reynolds 531 and Prugnat lugs. Looks about 72 deg parallel and would be extremely comfortable to ride. Well done in acquiring it. Bill Soens.


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

Bill,
Thank you. I will be stripping for service, should I expect to see any other markings evident., on the steerer for example (ala Harry Quinn) or anywhere else ?. Its certainly a comfortable machine and should serve me well as a winter bike along these muddy lanes.... (how many 'winter bikes' is that I have now.......)
Tony Smith


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## Bill Soens (19 Aug 2014)

Hi. No, there will be no other marks. If there is one on the fork column then that pair of forks will not be the originals. From the photo, they look to be correct.

Bill Soens.


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

Thank you Bill. Its a privilege to have you here to put us right.
One last question if I may., If I refurb the frame what are the correct decals for it ? Is it the stylised 'S' for the headtube and Eddie Soens/Soensport for the down/seat tube ?
Tony


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## Bill Soens (19 Aug 2014)

There are no Eddie Soens or SoenSport decals available to the best of my knowledge. I would simply carry on with the Jim Soens decals, if it was me. Cheers. Bill Soens.


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## DonSchwann (19 Aug 2014)

Glad someone on here got it! And for a bargain price… Well done Tony, you'll look after it I'm sure.


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

DonSchwann said:


> Glad someone on here got it! And for a bargain price… Well done Tony, you'll look after it I'm sure.


Its a welcome guest to the 'stable' Don, along with the H.Quinns, R.J. Quinns, Fothergills, and any other Liverpool/Merseyside vintage frame I can rescue


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

He's some kinda fella that Eddie Soens chap. He can look at a photo and give you the parallel degree of the frame (which was just about spot on by the way and that wasn't the norm until the end of the 60's). Anyone would think he'd built the things or something .


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## DonSchwann (19 Aug 2014)

@Tony Smith have you seen the Tierney frame going on eBay right now (current bid £10.50)? I'd bid, but I'm cash poor at the moment… worth saving?


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## Tony Smith (19 Aug 2014)

I've seen that one (needs a fair bit doing by the looks of it and it hasn't got the original forks) and also the Wally Watkins Tandem, have you seen that ?. Wally made track frames on County Road (about a mile from Harry Quinn and they used to share their talents I believe), so the tandem is a rare one. I haven't a clue on what to do with a tandem so I've avoided that despite it being pretty unique. I'm not too sure that 'she who must be obeyed' would welcome a tandem in the kitchen whilst I'm spending hours lug lining it on the kitchen table anyway :-)


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## biggs682 (22 Aug 2014)

Tony Smith said:


> Its a welcome guest to the 'stable' Don, along with the H.Quinns, R.J. Quinns, Fothergills, and any other Liverpool/Merseyside vintage frame I can rescue


it will look good in mine with the 2 Ian Mays already in situ


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## biggs682 (24 Aug 2014)

after much heart ache @Tony Smith decided at the end of last week that his recently purchased Soens was a bit to small for him , so he kindly offered it to me first , so i said yes without hesitation .

here it is in as delivered condition , so far since pic taken rear wheel cleaned ,rear half of frame polished along with rear deraileur replaced and rear esge mudguard swapped for a Black one front will be swapped as well later in week .

considering it has all the brazes ons for a touring machine rather than an out and out racer its really light


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## Tony Smith (24 Aug 2014)

If I could find that emoticon that shows someone bawling his eyes out, I'd post it. !


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## biggs682 (24 Aug 2014)

Bill Soens said:


> Hi. No, there will be no other marks. If there is one on the fork column then that pair of forks will not be the originals. From the photo, they look to be correct.
> 
> Bill Soens.



Hi @Bill Soens 
re the above comment i have just stripped forks out to give the headset bearings a clean and some fresh grease and they also have 777 stamped on then in a vertical plane .

I also spotted the nice the nice detailing on the fork crown with a bit of recessed detailing , both as shown below


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## sittingbull (24 Aug 2014)

Tony Smith said:


> If I could find that emoticon that shows someone bawling his eyes out, I'd post it. !


Here you go Tony:



Understandable too!



biggs682 said:


> .................. here it is in as delivered condition ......................



That's such a nice looking bike, the paint looks fresh, especially on the forks. It's been well looked after.


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## Tony Smith (25 Aug 2014)




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## biggs682 (31 Aug 2014)

well 2moro will see the Soens report in for commuting duties , we have done just shy of 20 test miles so all shaken down ready to go


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## pvcw (9 Sep 2014)

Bill Soens said:


> Hello Steve.
> 
> Thank you for your request and sorry for the delay. Sorry to advise you that this is definitely not an Eddie Soens and there is a conflict with the two names/transfers but I note that you say that someone has fitted their own vinyl lettering on the down tube.
> 
> ...



Hi Billy,
I have only just spotted the above and thought you might be interested in somehistory.... perhaps your goodself Billy, whom I also knew, see below, might be amused.
I grew up (yrs 2-12) living at church house in the extensive grounds of Walton Hospital, Rice Lane, Liverpool, in the 1950's. Dad was the Hospital Secretary there at that time. Only a short distance from my home (100yds) were the carpenters/polishers/upholsterers workshops for the hospital.as well as patient's property stores etc. Eddie was the expert french polisher who worked there....a wonderful , but hard, guy whom I visited and pestered frequently, particularly during school holidays. Eddie was always a joy and interesting to be around and though not very tall he was mightily strong, I now understand that he was an ex boxer, and ex military, though I didn't know at the time. How to go from Sgt Major to racing bikes and french polishing I'll never know?
I learnt a lot about racing bikes from Eddie ( I remember the French polishing shop was also full of the old type sew together racing tyres which he would fix during his work breaks). I learnt that he and his family lived in Boaler St. Liverpool and that his son Billy built racing bikes....frames etc etc. So, cutting to the chase, I managed to persuade my Dad to take me to the shop and, after a 2-3wk wait, acquired a brand new small Soens racing bike specially built (gas welded frame and all) by Billy for me. It was my pride and joy. For many years it carred me the 8miles there and 8miles back to and from school in the Mossley Hill area of Liverpool.
Sadly my father died in 1959 (only 49yrs) and my mother (an assistant matron) and elder brother and I left Walton shortly after. Though I did see Eddie (& Billy) a couple of times after that, I went off to uni in the mid 60's, and lost track of them. Though I seem to recall that Eddie moved home to the Old Swan area of Liverpool around then.

Some years later, probably the very late 60's, my super Soens bike passed to another of the Soens brothers at their shop just outside Newsham General Hospital where my mother then worked.


Eddie was a wonderful and a quite remarkable guy!!!!!!


Philip Watkins (now only 67yrs), Saffron Walden, Essex.


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## MossCommuter (9 Sep 2014)

This was, and continues to be, my favourite CC thread ever


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## biggs682 (9 Sep 2014)

@pvcw do you have any pictures you could post at all , after that interesting insight


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## pvcw (10 Sep 2014)

MossCommuter said:


> This was, and continues to be, my favourite CC thread ever



MossCommuter. Clearly this was many many years ago. My parents, in their time, kept some photos taken at Walton which I think I, or my brother, may yet possess.
Please bear with me and I'll look.
Best Regards
Phil Watkins


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## DonSchwann (10 Sep 2014)

The stories on here make me think how wonderful it would be to collect tales of Liverpool's racing bike builders and those, like Phil Watkins, who loved their steel beauties! I bet the collection would be pretty enthralling!


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## pvcw (10 Sep 2014)

DonSchwann said:


> The stories on here make me think how wonderful it would be to collect tales of Liverpool's racing bike builders and those, like Phil Watkins, who loved their steel beauties! I bet the collection would be pretty enthralling!




Yes, I do wish I still had my Soens bike now, although since I'm 6'1" I could only scoot on it. But it really was a work of art!
Regards
PhlWatkins


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## biggs682 (10 Sep 2014)

DonSchwann said:


> The stories on here make me think how wonderful it would be to collect tales of Liverpool's racing bike builders and those, like Phil Watkins, who loved their steel beauties! I bet the collection would be pretty enthralling!


must admit @DonSchwann can you imagine getting the bikes together all in one place


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## DonSchwann (10 Sep 2014)

I'd love to see all the surviving Soens, Quinns, Fothergills, Whitcombs, Tierneys, Coppells, Dave Lloyds and Ian Mays together, @biggs682

It would be fantastic to bring their stories together, too, before all their histories start to fade... This thread reminds me how great these bikes were (and still are!)


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## Rob Elliott (12 Sep 2014)

I agree with that! I have a particular interest in Soens, and given the contributions above from Mr Bill about the 800 or so frames he built, I would love to know where they are now. I think I have one, and I have seen one a couple of months ago hanging on the wall in C+G Finishes in Liverpool, but have never seen any others. I am obviously going to the wrong places...

Rob Elliott (newbie)


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## Sharky (13 Sep 2014)

What memories! I had a Bates frame done at C&G finishes in about 1965. Done in polychromatic copper with chrome ends. Looked really nice and is the one I am riding in the picture on the left.

The reference to riders named "Ward" and the IOM. Well I am a Ward and once rode the IOM. Best week ever, but only rode the one lapper, which in 69 was won by Willie Moore and I didn't hit anybody!

And Twiddles. Bill's son Dave was a club mate in the Prescot RC and always had a very shiny bike. Made me a bit envious.

And references to some of the other great names. I have an old cutting somewhere, showing the result of a 25 just before the war, with Eddie Soens, Ken Mathews, Larry Ross and my dad Vic all listed. I'll try and find it and post it.

And the bike shop in Prescot run by Sid Bloors. A really old bike shop and Sid was an old Prescot RC member as well. No longer with us, but a nice character.

I sold my Bates and bought an RJ Quin. Also a good bike.

Cheers Keith


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## biggs682 (13 Sep 2014)

@Rob Elliott welcome aboard can we have some pics please of your suspected Soens 

@Sharky you cant buy those memories


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## Rob Elliott (13 Sep 2014)

biggs682 said:


> @Rob Elliott welcome aboard can we have some pics please of your suspected Soens
> 
> @Sharky you cant buy those memories



I will post some photos and a bit of history as soon as I am allowed. What I can say is that it shares the same logo as yours above, with the flag in the shield and Olympic rings. A lovely, elegant logo I think.

Rob.


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## biggs682 (13 Sep 2014)

Rob Elliott said:


> I will post some photos and a bit of history as soon as I am allowed. What I can say is that it shares the same logo as yours above, with the flag in the shield and Olympic rings. A lovely, elegant logo I think.
> 
> Rob.


you know we will be waiting


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## DonSchwann (13 Sep 2014)

I'd like to see that too! I've never seen a Soens I didn't like!


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## Sharky (13 Sep 2014)

Found this in my Dad's old scrap book







Some good old names listed. Do we have any relatives on the forum?

- my dad Vic Ward, his fastest pre war ride. He was called up after this. Aged 20. Probably done on 86 fixed.
- Eddie Soens the subject of this thread.
- Alan Barker from the Warrington and a friend of my dads. Many years later (1968) Alan offered me a lift home after a 25 on the O2 course. I'd ridden out the previous day and stayed at the YHA. But I turned him down and rode home again! 

- it was Alan's dad, Harry Barker that started the Warrington and my dad went onto start the Prescot RC after the war. Now called Prescot Eagle after merging with the Liverpool Eagle.


Cheers Keith


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## biggs682 (13 Sep 2014)

1hr 3 mins 51 secs for a 25 mile is good going when you consider things 

nice momento


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## Rob Elliott (14 Sep 2014)

As promised, here are some photos and history of my “Eddie Soens”. I have had it since 1972, having bought it second hand for £40 from Mr Bill Twiddle’s shop on Lawrence Road, Liverpool. I lived in Underley Street until 1971, about half a mile away, and remember him and his shop fondly. I think it’s a beautiful and elegant frame.

Note the wonderful decal on the head and down tubes. I am trying to source copies of this without success so far. www.hlloydcycles.com tell me they have an original and can recreate it, but they want to charge me over £70 for 2 including the set up costs. The name ”J Dorian” is sign-written on the left side of the top tube. I have failed to discover who this was – maybe a Liverpool club cyclist in the Sefton Park or Edge Hill area - Merseyside Wheelers perhaps? The original equipment (or rather, as I bought it) was as follows:

A badly worn Zeus Chainset and rings; Campagnolo Record gears and shifters (still working perfectly after all these years); an unnamed cassette; Fiamme sprint rims on FF Atom hubs, with Wolber Junior tyres; a Wienmann stem; no-name handlebars, heastock bearings and seat pin; an Evian seat bolt; a Brooks Professional saddle; and Universal Model 51 brakes with Wienmann levers.

After several years of neglect, in about 1990 I replaced the wheels with Mavic MA2 rims on Shimano 105 hubs, with a 105 chainset, cassette and headstock bearings. The original Campagnolo pulleys were also replaced with Shimano. I also replaced the saddle - an enormous mistake. Huge. I have regretted that since.

I have no idea when it was made, but if it is a proper Eddie Soens, given the frame number 331, I suspect it could be pre-1960. Any advice on what it is made of would be appreciated - is it likely to be 531? Also, what should be the diameter of the seat tube? The photo shows deformation in the lugs and the bolt is bent, so does that suggest the seat pin is slightly under size?

Its obviously time for another full renovation. If I can source the decals (and I want to use the same, rather than any other), I will have the paintwork done exactly as it is now. I have spoken to C&G Finishes in Liverpool and they will do the job for me - they almost certainly did the original. The name on the down tube is beautifully sign-written - a lost art, I think.

I hope all this is of interest. Its turned into a bit of an essay, but I thought I would try and get it all down in one place.


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## DonSchwann (15 Sep 2014)

Beautiful looking frame, that!

I think, from what others have said, that it's impossible to buy Soens decals 'off the peg', so you'd have to have them made up. 

The deformation at the very top of the seat tube is a classic sign of an undersize seat post. My LBS 'fitted' a new one to my Ian May (the original was beautiful, but too short) and now my bike has the same deformation - and I'm back to the original seat post. Mine was obviously wrong, though. After about 50 miles, the thing started squeaking whenever I sat down, so I removed it straight away.

If it was mine, I think I'd live with the original paint - maybe top coat it to protect what's left and let your Soens' history shine!


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## biggs682 (15 Sep 2014)

@Rob Elliott why are you considering having that refinished !!!

you will loose all its originality in one fell swoop

got to admit it a great looker and if its anything like mine bloody great to ride as well

how heavy is it ?

hope you use it more regular than I use my 2 Ian Mays


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## Rob Elliott (15 Sep 2014)

Thanks for that, and yours DonSchwann.

It weighs in at 10.8kg., and is a wonderful ride. I probably ride it less than you might think, and certainly a lot less than I should.

The photos may not show the damage of the years clearly, but there are some unsightly dents in the seat and down tubes, and a lot of poor touching up has been done in the past by me, to cover chips.

I will reconsider the plan though! I'll strip it down and give it a thorough clean first, rather than go for something drastic straightaway. Of course, if new decals are going to cost me more than 2s 6d, it will be staying as it is anyway!

Rob.


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## biggs682 (15 Sep 2014)

weighs about the same as mine , must admit i have covered aprox 100 miles since i got it a few weeks ago and really feel at home on it as my daily commuter .
it should be going into have some retro campag bar end shifters fitted along with a nice double crankset which will make it even more useable .

and dont worry pics will follow


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## DonSchwann (16 Sep 2014)

Glad to hear the Soens is performing well, @biggs682 … but let's not leave the Ian Mays garaged up, eh?


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## Rob Elliott (19 Sep 2014)

Another example of the head badge and other photos can be seen here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39323768@N04/sets/72157619549377737


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## Rob Elliott (19 Sep 2014)

Further to the above, I am not sure why the owner/photographer thinks the logo is hand-painted. Surely not?


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## DonSchwann (19 Sep 2014)

wouldn't think so. it'll be a decal surely. lovely frame!


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## biggs682 (19 Sep 2014)

Rob Elliott said:


> Another example of the head badge and other photos can be seen here.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/39323768@N04/sets/72157619549377737


same head badge as ours but different


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## midlife (20 Sep 2014)

Looks like a late 60's early 70's to me with the mix of brazings / band on and the full sloping crown and simple lugs to make it look italian  Classy 

Shaun

PS the saddle clip is on back to front.


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## biggs682 (11 Oct 2014)

This tandem has a n other variety on it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271632279106?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## Campfire (17 Oct 2014)

Sharky said:


> Found this in my Dad's old scrap book
> 
> View attachment 56079
> 
> ...


 
Hi Keith, just found this by accident. Alan Barker was my Dad. I was Anne Barker of Warrington Road Club. I also have a Soensport, which according to my Dad, belonged to Pete Matthews. It's no decals on or anything as I had it resprayed years ago without realising the importance of the name, even though I used to go in the Soens shops in my 20s with a girl called Pat, who lived at Huyton. Any idea what happened to her?


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## biggs682 (17 Oct 2014)

@Campfire you cant tease people like that , we need a pic please please please

sound glorious , wish my parents still had the bikes they rode


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## Campfire (18 Oct 2014)

biggs682 - do you want one of me racing on it in the 70s? Otherwise it's in the back of my garage on a trainer, that I pretend to use sometimes, tucked behind my others.

Oh yes, in my Mum's garage there is a Carlton and a Harry Quinn, the Carlton is my Mum's and the Quinn my Dad's. He also had a Speedwell I think a Ti frame, which I sold at York rally the other year for about £200. His Dave Hinde was, to my annoyance, given away to my Mum's brother in law!


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## biggs682 (18 Oct 2014)

Campfire said:


> biggs682 - do you want one of me racing on it in the 70s? Otherwise it's in the back of my garage on a trainer, that I pretend to use sometimes, tucked behind my others.
> 
> Oh yes, in my Mum's garage there is a Carlton and a Harry Quinn, the Carlton is my Mum's and the Quinn my Dad's. He also had a Speedwell I think a Ti frame, which I sold at York rally the other year for about £200. His Dave Hinde was, to my annoyance, given away to my Mum's brother in law!


@Campfire all or any and what a collection , many thanks

just dont let resident Quinn man @Tony Smith see this conversation


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## Campfire (20 Oct 2014)

Will try to take one of just the bike. That was taken on course around Chelford in - 1977!


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## biggs682 (20 Oct 2014)

Campfire said:


> View attachment 59582
> Will try to take one of just the bike. That was taken on course around Chelford in - 1977!


great action shot thanks


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## Bill Soens (20 Nov 2014)

pvcw said:


> Hi Billy,
> I have only just spotted the above and thought you might be interested in somehistory.... perhaps your goodself Billy, whom I also knew, see below, might be amused.
> I grew up (yrs 2-12) living at church house in the extensive grounds of Walton Hospital, Rice Lane, Liverpool, in the 1950's. Dad was the Hospital Secretary there at that time. Only a short distance from my home (100yds) were the carpenters/polishers/upholsterers workshops for the hospital.as well as patient's property stores etc. Eddie was the expert french polisher who worked there....a wonderful , but hard, guy whom I visited and pestered frequently, particularly during school holidays. Eddie was always a joy and interesting to be around and though not very tall he was mightily strong, I now understand that he was an ex boxer, and ex military, though I didn't know at the time. How to go from Sgt Major to racing bikes and french polishing I'll never know?
> I learnt a lot about racing bikes from Eddie ( I remember the French polishing shop was also full of the old type sew together racing tyres which he would fix during his work breaks). I learnt that he and his family lived in Boaler St. Liverpool and that his son Billy built racing bikes....frames etc etc. So, cutting to the chase, I managed to persuade my Dad to take me to the shop and, after a 2-3wk wait, acquired a brand new small Soens racing bike specially built (gas welded frame and all) by Billy for me. It was my pride and joy. For many years it carred me the 8miles there and 8miles back to and from school in the Mossley Hill area of Liverpool.
> ...




Hello. In the past I used to receive notice from this site when someone posted something that involved me, directly or indirectly. this has, apparently, stopped and only today have I chosen to re-visit the site to see if anything has occurred. True enough, the above has been uploaded and I was truly ignorant of its existence.

Nice to read of people's memories - in particular this one which delves so far into the past that it involved my late father, Eddie Soens, working in Walton Hospital in the maintenance department. Your wonder regarding how one would generate from a Regimental Sergeant Major to a French polisher. Well, he served his time from the age of 14 as a french polisher. 

regards. Bill Soens.


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## Bill Soens (20 Nov 2014)

Rob Elliott said:


> As promised, here are some photos and history of my “Eddie Soens”. I have had it since 1972, having bought it second hand for £40 from Mr Bill Twiddle’s shop on Lawrence Road, Liverpool. I lived in Underley Street until 1971, about half a mile away, and remember him and his shop fondly. I think it’s a beautiful and elegant frame.
> 
> Note the wonderful decal on the head and down tubes. I am trying to source copies of this without success so far. www.hlloydcycles.com tell me they have an original and can recreate it, but they want to charge me over £70 for 2 including the set up costs. The name ”J Dorian” is sign-written on the left side of the top tube. I have failed to discover who this was – maybe a Liverpool club cyclist in the Sefton Park or Edge Hill area - Merseyside Wheelers perhaps? The original equipment (or rather, as I bought it) was as follows:
> 
> ...





This is a really interesting set of photographs and I can confirm that this is a frame that I built roughly 1960-65. The dearth of brazed on fittings was a fashion at that time when riders would come back from Belgium with stories of how steel frames would crack due to extra brazings - never happened to me but the fashion came and went quickly. This really is a touring frame in that the mudguard eyes are still on the front and rear drop-outs. Also the gap on the front forks is slightly wider to take guards. Racing machines had the eyes removed and were tighter in the gaps. Weight was much the same and was the geometry. You need to alter the saddle position and turn the clip the other way, putting you further behind the bottom bracket. This will be more comfortable. Lower the bars and it will then steer better and then roll them up very slightly so that the bottoms are not parallel with the floor. All this will improve the handling and comfort. 

The seat pillar looks to be the wrong size. It should be a 27.2 mm pillar. By crushing the frame in this way, the seat tube would need to be reamed out properly.

Best wishes.

Bill Soens.


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## cisamcgu (20 Nov 2014)

Norman Thomas said:


> Hi Bill (Soens), thanks for your comments about my nostalgic rumblings. You were right about the 52/12 gear. Now I think about it, the Stronglight chain set was 52/48, and it was the 48 that I rode with the 12 tooth sprocket. It was still hard work but fortunately my school journey was fairly flat - from Knowsley Road in Bootle to Marion Way in Netherton. The joy of having 10 speeds on my Eddie Soens when I finally got it was indescribable. You mentioned me having the dates wrong with regard to Pete Matthews shop. I'm sure you're right. I put the words "I think" before that section because it was the one thing I wasn't entirely sure about. Everything else seems crystal clear to me 50 years later. A later blogger talks about my reference to a shop on Rice Lane. I'm not getting it confused with Walvale. Both Harry Quinn and Walvale had shops on the East side of Walton Vale. The Quinn ship was at the junction where traffic came down from Orrell Park station. Walvale was further along opposite Woolworths or thereabouts. The Rice Lane shop that I was referring to was close to Spellow Lane library - on the same side of the road. I remember seeing Bob Jackson frames in the window on the way walking to Goodison Park for a place in the Boys' Pen. If nobody else remembers that shop I probably dreamt it!! Wouldn't be the first time that has happened. By the way, I did a bit of digging on Google and found a place where you can download a pdf version of the Bike Riders Aids catalogue - it makes for fascinating reading. I can remember most of the pictures in the 1964-5 version. You can find it at threespeedhub.com


Jack Stiles (Robin Hood) Cycles maybe ?


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## Archie_tect (20 Nov 2014)

@Bill Soens 

Bill,
I once worked with a man, probably now in his late 70s, called Richard Roberts from Middlesbrough who told me he used to race professionally all over Britain and the continent. I've not had any more word about him, but did you come across him in your years in the shop?


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## Bill Soens (22 Nov 2014)

Sorry can't put a face to the name. Forget what I had for breakfast now ! I did all my two year National Service in Catterick and raced a bit around there. I recall riding at a grass track meet in Richmond, North Yorks and there were two brothers from Middlesbrough who worked me over on the last lap of the 5 miles championships. One held me down whilst the other went off the front ! Had to kick back, go around and jyst failed to make the gold ! Whether the above chap is one of the brothers I cannot say.


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## Bill Soens (2 Dec 2014)

Sharky said:


> Found this in my Dad's old scrap book
> 
> View attachment 56079
> 
> ...




hello. Interesting finishing sheet. I note the date which is interesting more so since my late father, Eddie Soens, would have been posted to India/Burma very soon after this and didn't return home until the end of 1945.

What could be more interesting is that I have a photograph that "could£ have been taken at that time or even at the end of that race. Certainly two of the riders are featured in the photo:- Eddie Soens in the centre and the taller man on his left (our right) is Jackie Sullivan, who was third in your race card.

Regards. Bill Soens.


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## Sharky (2 Dec 2014)

Bill Soens said:


> hello. Interesting finishing sheet. I note the date which is interesting more so since my late father, Eddie Soens, would have been posted to India/Burma very soon after this and didn't return home until the end of 1945.
> 
> What could be more interesting is that I have a photograph that "could£ have been taken at that time or even at the end of that race. Certainly two of the riders are featured in the photo:- Eddie Soens in the centre and the taller man on his left (our right) is Jackie Sullivan, who was third in your race card.
> 
> Regards. Bill Soens.


Hi, yes my dad was called up soon after this and went into the RAF, also posted to India!
Cheers Keith


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## biggs682 (9 Dec 2014)

just got back from picking up another Soens bike , this time its badged as a Jim Soens unsure of its previous life will start a new thread when i have some better pics and details . Cant wait to hear comments from @Bill Soens


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## Bill Soens (10 Dec 2014)

No reason to assume that this is not built by Jim Soens. It is a fairly standard and basic frame of the 1960's with plenty of space for mudguards as is obvious. In its original form it would have been used by a club rider for club runs and possibly for weekend racing by taking off the mudguards and changing the wheels - a very common practice then - we all did it although most competitors had frames with the guard eyes removed from the front/read ends and the clearances were tighter. the shape is fairly reminiscent to that offered by Holdsworth at the time. Whether Jim Soens built it or badged a Holdsworth is of no importance because the frame is not less than fifty years old and all credit to the builder and to those who looked after it for two generations. Obviously the saddle and handlebars are incorrect for this bike and it could be converted into an excellent touring machine.


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## biggs682 (10 Dec 2014)

H


Bill Soens said:


> No reason to assume that this is not built by Jim Soens. It is a fairly standard and basic frame of the 1960's with plenty of space for mudguards as is obvious. In its original form it would have been used by a club rider for club runs and possibly for weekend racing by taking off the mudguards and changing the wheels - a very common practice then - we all did it although most competitors had frames with the guard eyes removed from the front/read ends and the clearances were tighter. the shape is fairly reminiscent to that offered by Holdsworth at the time. Whether Jim Soens built it or badged a Holdsworth is of no importance because the frame is not less than fifty years old and all credit to the builder and to those who looked after it for two generations. Obviously the saddle and handlebars are incorrect for this bike and it could be converted into an excellent touring machine.


Had a quick look and look's like a 6 digit frame number, looks like first two are letters and last 4 are numerical. Thanks @Bill Soens


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## biggs682 (10 Dec 2014)

frame number is 114466 so does that mean 1966 as build year ??


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## Sharky (11 Dec 2014)

Hard to see the name in this photo, but it looks like a Soens:-






And there is an interesting story behind this picture.

I was on a club run (in about 2010) with my current club (Gravesend CC), only a couple of years ago and chatting to one of my club mates about old times about when we all started cycling. I told that my first club was on Merseyside I'd joined in 1966. He said that when he was at University in Aberdeen, he had shared a Lab Room with a cyclist that had come from Merseyside and did I know him. I almost fell of my bike with surprise. I did know him him.

The cyclist was "Phil" and he had been a great inspiration to me a young 16 yr old when I first started going on club runs and racing. I shared many a ride with him, including a 2-up when he almost destroyed me. My parents relocated to Kent in 1969 and I haven't seen him for over 40 years.

The photo of the Soens and Phil, was taken by my Gravesend clubmate at the Lab Room in Aberdeen University in 1972. A huge coincidence, considering the number of years and miles.

Some of the older CC'ers may recognise the chap in the photo. He was a very good rider.

Cheers Keith


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## biggs682 (14 Dec 2014)

Here are some long awaited pictures of my recent Jim Soens purchase .

Frame number looks to 114466 , 3 speed Sturmey Archer AW hub looks to be date stamped 3 63 . Crankset is a Williams just need to work out the coding on it .

The more i look the more i am sure paintwork is original 

A maiden 1.5 mile ride round the block once I adjusted the brakes and I can say it rides nice all 3 gear's seemed to select ok. If there was a complaint it would be the saddle


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## Sharky (14 Dec 2014)

A C34?
I was riding a steel C34 on the bike on the left reminds me of it.

Cheers Keith


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## biggs682 (29 Dec 2014)

finally had a spare half an hour yesterday and dropped a 700c fr wheel into the fr forks to see if the brakes had enough drop to enable me to use 700 wheels I can confirm the fronts do have so just need to check the rear dropout width and brake drop and then the fun starts , if poss I would like to get a singlespeed 700 wheel in there and ride in that format but will see


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## Bill Soens (29 Dec 2014)

Sharky said:


> Hard to see the name in this photo, but it looks like a Soens:-
> 
> View attachment 74060
> 
> ...


This is an interesting photo but I cannot place a name on the cyclist - sorry. However, the bike is genuine and one that I would have built about 1959, looking that the transfers (decals). It would have been badged Eddie Soens, of course. The head tube transfer is a copy of the Liverpool Unity Roads Club badge/medal, simply altering the wording. the club complained that I had copied their design, which was perfectly true but sine they hadn't registered it as a trade mark there was nothing they could do. The club folded shortly after, after a member ran off with the club funds ! Nice chap ! Best wishes.

Bill Soens.


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## Bill Soens (29 Dec 2014)

biggs682 said:


> frame number is 114466 so does that mean 1966 as build year ??


No Sorry. Doesn't mean anything to me. Bill


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## biggs682 (3 Jan 2015)

biggs682 said:


> finally had a spare half an hour yesterday and dropped a 700c fr wheel into the fr forks to see if the brakes had enough drop to enable me to use 700 wheels I can confirm the fronts do have so just need to check the rear dropout width and brake drop and then the fun starts , if poss I would like to get a singlespeed 700 wheel in there and ride in that format but will see



well a bit more tinkering this morning has found forks stamped number does not match frame number so non original forks , rear drop outs are 126mm oln and the brakes drop has enough adjustment to allow me to run 700c's 

which is good news so just got to decide single or gears


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## Rob Elliott (20 Jan 2015)

Bill Soens said:


> This is a really interesting set of photographs and I can confirm that this is a frame that I built roughly 1960-65. The dearth of brazed on fittings was a fashion at that time when riders would come back from Belgium with stories of how steel frames would crack due to extra brazings - never happened to me but the fashion came and went quickly. This really is a touring frame in that the mudguard eyes are still on the front and rear drop-outs. Also the gap on the front forks is slightly wider to take guards. Racing machines had the eyes removed and were tighter in the gaps. Weight was much the same and was the geometry. You need to alter the saddle position and turn the clip the other way, putting you further behind the bottom bracket. This will be more comfortable. Lower the bars and it will then steer better and then roll them up very slightly so that the bottoms are not parallel with the floor. All this will improve the handling and comfort.
> 
> The seat pillar looks to be the wrong size. It should be a 27.2 mm pillar. By crushing the frame in this way, the seat tube would need to be reamed out properly.
> 
> ...



Bill,

Many apologies for not responding to this sooner - I have not visited the forum for a while and hence missed this useful note.

I am obviously really pleased my frame is one of yours! What you say about it being a touring frame is interesting - it had never occurred to me before that the gaps would be wider to accommodate mudguards, although I have often wondered why it had eyes. Was it the practice to remove the eyes, or were racing frames generally made without them? I take your point about the saddle position and bar angle - I have never ridden it quite like this, but just popped them back on for the photos having started to loosen everything for dismantling. I must admit though that I have always had to push the seat forward, but should probably get a shorter stem - the frame has always been a shade too big for me, but once I saw it in Twiddle's I wasn't going to let that stop me having it. And thanks for confirming the seat pillar size. I should be able to fix the deformation.

Returning to the original subject of the thread, there is an issue with transfers on which I would welcome your insight. How many Soens logos were there? I have only seen those sold by Hilary Lloyd plus the ones on my frame (copies of which I still haven't managed to source, so the bike is staying as it is for now). I was wondering if there was any pattern to the transfers. For example, if someone bought a frame from you was there a "touring frame" logo, a "race frame" log and a "track frame" logo, or is this just daft wishful thinking on my part?

Finally, as far as I know, the transfers on my frame are the only Soens ones I have seen with the flag and olympic rings. Would this have been a "special" from around the time of the 1960 or 1964 Olympic Games, or some other event, or is that nonsense too?

Many thanks for your contributions on the site - it has been really interesting so far.

Very best wishes,

Rob Elliott


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## sittingbull (20 Jan 2015)

Rob Elliott said:


> Finally, as far as I know, the transfers on my frame are the only Soens ones I have seen with the flag and olympic rings. Would this have been a "special" from around the time of the 1960 or 1964 Olympic Games, or some other event, or is that nonsense too?



Here's another


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## Bill Soens (27 Jan 2015)

Rob Elliott said:


> Bill,
> 
> Many apologies for not responding to this sooner - I have not visited the forum for a while and hence missed this useful note.
> 
> ...




ref mudguards, clearance etc. Campag front and rear ends came with the mudguard eyes in-situ. It was a simple case of cutting them off and smoothing the result so they would appear to have been supplied without. The front forks - and rear ends - would have a closer clearance and much tighter/shorter wheelbase in order to achieve an overall tighter response for a racing bike.

Cannot help ref transfers. The small ones with the flag and olympic rings are from a Jim Soens bike and not an Eddie Soens, so are wrong for this machine - sorry. No, there was no difference in the type of transfer for any specific frame - just which ones I was using at any specific time. A lot of frames had the name hand-written on by C and G finishes who were excellent sign-writers. 

If you go onto eBay and type in self-adhesive small signs etc, eventually you will come across someone who will supply almost anything you want in the way of a name, with colour choice and type of font. Last year I got four for £2.95 with my own name to fit on the top tube and chainstay of a basic bike I have and they look very good indeed. Have lost the address - sorry.


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## biggs682 (7 Feb 2015)

just a quick update on my Jim Soens , i have swapped the 3 speed 27" wheels for some nice Mavic 700c rims , swapped the butterfly bars for some drops and swapped the single williams crank for a nice period alloy double chainset so its had a transformation and i have just had a maiden ride and can honestly say very nice indeed


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## Red Rose (17 Mar 2015)

Hello Bill,
The frame has now been re-painted. The decals came from Lloyds in Penrith - only available in gold - which was handy as it matched the gold lug lining. Managed to preserve the original head tube paint and decals by careful masking.

Hope you approve of the sympathetic restoration,

View attachment 82755
View attachment 82755


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## biggs682 (17 Mar 2015)

@Red Rose who did the paintwork and it does look good


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## Red Rose (17 Mar 2015)

biggs682 said:


> @Red Rose who did the paintwork and it does look good


Frame painstakingly ,stripped, primed, painted, lacquered and lug lined by myself. Thanks for the appreciative comment. Glad you like it.


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## biggs682 (17 Mar 2015)

Red Rose said:


> Frame painstakingly ,stripped, primed, painted, lacquered and lug lined by myself. Thanks for the appreciative comment. Glad you like it.



you taking bookings ?


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## Red Rose (18 Mar 2015)

biggs682 said:


> you taking bookings ?



Note the word "painstakingly"..........I lost count of the time it took. It's a hobby (a very satisfying one), and it's staying that way. C & G in Liverpool are the people to talk to if you want a professional job.


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## biggs682 (20 Mar 2015)

this looks nice

http://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/jim-soens-racing-bike/1099590442


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## skinnylegs (16 Jul 2015)

Hi folks, stumbled across this forum whilst trying to get a rough age for a bike I picked up recently: https://goo.gl/photos/QDwDCWgfuqnfZiSy5

Any ideas?


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## biggs682 (17 Jul 2015)

@skinnylegs welcome aboard thats a nice looking machine you have there and if components are original i would suggest early/mid 80's.
Try checking for date stamps on the wheel hubs and brake calipers .

Feel free to come and join us on the facebook page " In Appreciation of Merseyside Bikes " and post a pic or 2 on there its nice to see another Soens


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## Bill Soens (17 Jul 2015)

The bike that appears in the photo album under Google photos etc from "skinnylegs" with Soens Cycles transfers (decals) on it is, sadly , not a Soens. It is not one that I built and I can confirm that it was not built by my late uncle Jim Soens. It has always been quite common to fit decals of a specialist builder on to a factory built machine, in this case it is almost certainly a Peugeot with internal lugs, giving the impression that it is a welded frame. Nothing wrong with the frame, it does a certain job and will handle OK. Vintage roughly 30 years or so ago.

Best wishes.

Bill Soens. (builder of Eddie Soens Cycles)


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## skinnylegs (17 Jul 2015)

Bill Soens said:


> The bike that appears in the photo album under Google photos etc from "skinnylegs" with Soens Cycles transfers (decals) on it is, sadly , not a Soens. It is not one that I built and I can confirm that it was not built by my late uncle Jim Soens. It has always been quite common to fit decals of a specialist builder on to a factory built machine, in this case it is almost certainly a Peugeot with internal lugs, giving the impression that it is a welded frame. Nothing wrong with the frame, it does a certain job and will handle OK. Vintage roughly 30 years or so ago.
> 
> Best wishes.
> 
> Bill Soens. (builder of Eddie Soens Cycles)



Thanks for this Bill, I was half expecting that to be the case as it didn't quite match up with anything I'd read in this thread or found elsewhere online. 

I'll give it a bit more of a clean and rummage around to see if there are any dates on the parts; there's a bet at work as to whether or not the bike is older than I am (35) :-)


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## biggs682 (17 Jul 2015)

skinnylegs said:


> Thanks for this Bill, I was half expecting that to be the case as it didn't quite match up with anything I'd read in this thread or found elsewhere online.
> 
> I'll give it a bit more of a clean and rummage around to see if there are any dates on the parts; there's a bet at work as to whether or not the bike is older than I am (35) :-)



i think it will be about the same age


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## Dean Griffin (20 Nov 2015)

Hi All,
New member from Australia here. Thought you might like to see this. It was given to me by my boss, it was his fathers bike, who was a Doctor involved with a number of top level Australian cyclists, including Hilton Clarke who he obtained the bike from.
It is pretty much original, with campagnolo crankset, gearing and seat pin. 3ttt suede seat, Universal centrepull brakes with wienmann levers. Hubs are a Japanese looking thing with ambrosio 27inch rims. Number 713 on bottom bracket. Minimal brazing, but does have guard mounts.


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## biggs682 (20 Nov 2015)

@Dean Griffin now that is nice and a great bit of history to boot


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## Dean Griffin (20 Nov 2015)

Thanks mate. I am going to give her a good clean up over the weekend and will post some more pictures then. I am assuming that this is about a mid 60's bike based on the components and general look of the thing, but am interested in any other information from those with more knowledge.


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## biggs682 (20 Nov 2015)

Dean Griffin said:


> Thanks mate. I am going to give her a good clean up over the weekend and will post some more pictures then. I am assuming that this is about a mid 60's bike based on the components and general look of the thing, but am interested in any other information from those with more knowledge.


hopefully @Bill Soens will be along soon my guess would be late 60's early 70's


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## Dean Griffin (21 Nov 2015)

Here are a few more pictures now that I have given her a clean up and put a decent length stem on.
All the "decals" are hand painted. Chrome a bit ropey but everything else in good condition.


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## biggs682 (21 Nov 2015)

@Dean Griffin that looks even better , hardly looks used . i do hope you are intending to use it and enjoy

shame about the chrome but hey , would love a picture of that on my face book page https://www.facebook.com/In-Appreciation-Of-Merseyside-Bikes-331872603631414/?ref=hl and feel free to add some words re history etc etc


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## Dean Griffin (21 Nov 2015)

Go for your life with the pictures, I have a couple more things to do and will post some more up. The bike is a little small for me but a group of us have what we call "steel wool" rides where you have to wear you old wool tops and ride a steely. Usually a bit of dirt road and general shenanigans. This will be perfect for that.
Initially I was going to repaint it, but its patina is too appealing - I will deal with the chrome as best I can, but keep it original.


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## Dean Griffin (21 Nov 2015)




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## biggs682 (21 Nov 2015)

@Dean Griffin thanks and have posted pics on my facebook page , keep it original so much history would be lost otherwise


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## Senior Ryder (21 Jan 2016)

Hi folks,

Biggs682 referred me to this forum after I purchased a Bill Soens' bike from him last September and transported it to the west coast of the US. It is frame #777 which has been documented and verified earlier in this forum. As usual for a 50+ year old, it has a few battle scars, but overall it's a great ride. I've only put about 50 miles on it due medical issues and other commitments, but found it to be well matched to my riding style.

Over the years most the original components have been replaced, some with quality upgrades and others just to keep it on the road. As far as I can tell, the only original parts are a very nice Milremo stem and unbranded, narrow bars. It also came with a good set of 700C wheels, Campagnolo Victory/Triompe low flange hubs and Mavic MA2 rims which I will use for the time being. I have a Campy HF rear hub and am bartering for a matching front hub to build some period correct wheels. Over the holidays, I acquired a Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport drive train from the 70s. This is the same group that is on Dean Griffin's red Eddie Soens. The Dia Compe side pulls that were on it have been replace with Weinmann 730 side pulls and Weinmann drilled levers. It also came with a beat up Campagnolo aero seat post which has been replaced by one that is more period correct. The bars have also been replace with a pair of wider GB brand. I'm looking forward to completing the project and getting in some quality road time. I've attached a picture of it as it is currently set up.

By-the-way, is Bill Soens still participating in this forum? There doesn't seem to be any recent postings. I'd like send him a "thank you" for creating such a frame and learn more about his design/build criteria.

Any info or feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Van


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## biggs682 (21 Jan 2016)

@Senior Ryder welcome aboard and thanks

@Bill Soens


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## Senior Ryder (27 Jan 2016)

@Dean Griffin
Hi Dean,

I was checking the forum for responses to my post and notice that your Seons' serial # is 713. It is, most likely, genuine. I have #777 which has been verified by Bill Soens earlier in this thread. Mine is an oddity. It has braze-ons for bar end shifters and no chrome. Also, its had a rough life, but rides great. Over the holidays I acquired a Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport drivetrain like the set up on your bike. These parts have been cleaned up and will be installed soon. It appears to have the original Milremo stem and GB bars. I had to get wider bars and will get those on as well. Then, it's ride and ride some more while I decide what to do about the paint. I'll post pix when the mods are complete. By-the-way, Tony Smith and biggs682 were the previous owners of this bike.

Regards,

Van


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## biggs682 (8 Feb 2016)

@Senior Ryder have a look at post 114 Soensport or Soens Brothers Name Transfer


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## Bill Soens (29 Feb 2016)

To senior ryder who has frame number 713, I am amazed that some of my frames are still being ridden or even in existence. With the number 713 it will be a genuine machine built by me about 1965. It will be about 72 deg head and 72 or 73 seat depending on frame size, Lugs will be Italian in design and make and it will be very comfortable to ride, assuming still in track after fifty years ! It isn't an "oddity". At least half of the riders then were using handlebar gear change, as distinct from down tube levers. Among these were Tommy Simpson and Rik van Looy. Nothing unusual about no chrome. Most bikes didn't have chrome. It cost extra and went rusty after a time. 

Frankly if I was to do this up I would have all the brazed on bits replaced for modern gears. Remove the rear brake bridge on the seat stays and widen the back ends to take modern wheels with a ten speed hub and then have a new brake bridge fitted. You can't widen the back ends without replacing the bridge. The seat tube will take a 27.2 mm seat stem and these are still the main sized unit. 

To a competent builder all this lot shouldn't take more than a couple of hours at most. Certainly I could have done it in a little over an hour in the right workshop. 

If all done properly and painted nicely it would make a very satisfactory bike.


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## biggs682 (29 Feb 2016)

@Bill Soens Great comments and very worthy


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## Senior Ryder (1 Mar 2016)

@Bill Soens 
@biggs682 
@Dean Griffin 

Bill,

Thanks for the feedback. Please check out my new posting "Rejuvenated 60s Soens" which I will post as soon as I get the pictures sorted out. Our crappy weather has prevented riding and photography. 

FYI; I have frame #777, Dean Griffin has #713. I've done some minor upgrading and retro fitting, but don't plan to make any drastic changes. I just want to ride it the way it was originally. I have other bikes for more modern rides, plus a Holdsworth of that vintage.

Regards,

Van


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## pubrunner (1 Mar 2016)

Bill Soens said:


> Certainly I could have done it in a little over an hour in the right workshop.



Can I bring a frame round this weekend ?


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## biggs682 (5 Mar 2016)

Had this picture posted on my In Appreciation Of Merseyside Bikes Facebook page by Ian Watson and also commented

" My first proper bike, an Eddie Soens from the Boaler Street shop, c/w Mafac centre-pull brakes, had it from age 15, my pride and joy, then after I was married the mother-in-law gave it to the bin men, I was gutted "


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## Rickshaw Phil (5 Mar 2016)

biggs682 said:


> Had this picture posted on my In Appreciation Of Merseyside Bikes Facebook page by Ian Watson and also commented
> 
> " My first proper bike, an Eddie Soens from the Boaler Street shop, c/w Mafac centre-pull brakes, had it from age 15, my pride and joy, then after I was married the mother-in-law gave it to the bin men, I was gutted "
> 
> View attachment 120809


A like for the nice photo. The rest is a tragedy.


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## biggs682 (18 Nov 2016)

just been sent this picture of a Soens that has turned up in Holland @Bill Soens would love to hear your comments and @Senior Ryder feel free


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## Cycleops (18 Nov 2016)

biggs682 said:


> " My first proper bike, an Eddie Soens from the Boaler Street shop, c/w Mafac centre-pull brakes, had it from age 15, my pride and joy, then after I was married the mother-in-law gave it to the bin men, I was gutted "



Grounds for divorce I'd have thought.


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## biggs682 (18 Nov 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Grounds for divorce I'd have thought.



Rather tasty I think, sure I could find room for it


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## Bill Soens (18 Nov 2016)

biggs682 said:


> just been sent this picture of a Soens that has turned up in Holland @Bill Soens would love to hear your comments and @Senior Ryder feel free
> 
> View attachment 151582


Just happen to be in front of the PC when this came in. The bike is a Jim Soens - not one of mine. It is a basic bike and could actually be a Holdsworth rebadged, since everything about it says Holdsworth. Nothing wrong with it though. Would have been extremely comfortable to rider and full 531 throughout. Lugs are Prugnat Italian style. 72 deg parallel and about 2.5" fork rake - too big actually - should be no more than 2". Nice to see these things till around.


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## biggs682 (18 Nov 2016)

Bill Soens said:


> Just happen to be in front of the PC when this came in. The bike is a Jim Soens - not one of mine. It is a basic bike and could actually be a Holdsworth rebadged, since everything about it says Holdsworth. Nothing wrong with it though. Would have been extremely comfortable to rider and full 531 throughout. Lugs are Prugnat Italian style. 72 deg parallel and about 2.5" fork rake - too big actually - should be no more than 2". Nice to see these things till around.



thanks @Bill Soens and your comments are always great to see


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## biggs682 (12 Jan 2017)

mikeymustard said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Jim-Soens-racing-cycle/162353657888?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40794&meid=e3ec632f60454f36a6164920f66c6c92&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=302193488622 Nice little Jim Soens here
> View attachment 157460
> 
> very tempted myself but it's a bit small



would love to see @Bill Soens comments on this beauty


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## chickendrumsticks (24 Oct 2017)

Hi all, new member here. Been following this fab thread for sometime and now have an opportunity to get myself a Soens bike. From the 70's and frame number is 874 which I believe makes it a Bill Soens build? I understand it originally came from Pete Matthews who of course took over from Jim Soens. Does this compute? Lugs are "smooth and sweeping" as described by Bill in an earlier thread! It was resprayed BITD but originally was a metallic blue. Any background most welcome - what tubes etc etc.


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## Bill Soens (24 Oct 2017)

chickendrumsticks said:


> Hi all, new member here. Been following this fab thread for sometime and now have an opportunity to get myself a Soens bike. From the 70's and frame number is 874 which I believe makes it a Bill Soens build? I understand it originally came from Pete Matthews who of course took over from Jim Soens. Does this compute? Lugs are "smooth and sweeping" as described by Bill in an earlier thread! It was resprayed BITD but originally was a metallic blue. Any background most welcome - what tubes etc etc.


Thanks for that information. Yes it was one of the last frames I built, based on the number and it would have been mid to late sixties, not the 70's. I have no records as to who I built for. They went a long time ago. The fact that it was acquired via Pete Matthews shop doesn't mean anything really. Most shops sold secondhand bikes of various makes. It will be 531 tubing - there was nothing else to match that until Columbus and then 753 came out. If it is an "invisible " sloping crown then the forks will be Italian tubing. If a normal crown, then they will be 531 as well. Cheers. Bill Soens.


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## biggs682 (24 Oct 2017)

@chickendrumsticks we need pictures please .

There's a nice soen's frame on e bay at the moment


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Oct 2017)

A couple of pics of this bike at my flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141591263@N05/ 

I don't (yet) know how to insert this as a hyperlink but just copy and paste to your browser. And thanks Bill for your info. Great to know it is one of yours. I don't own it yet, awaiting OK from seller - fingers crossed.

How should it be badged if I decide to refurbish it (there's some rust here and there)? Hopefully as an Eddie Soens because super transfers are available!


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## biggs682 (25 Oct 2017)

Here you go @chickendrumsticks , that looks very nice indeed , what size is it ?


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## Bazzer (25 Oct 2017)

That is a very pretty bike


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Oct 2017)

biggs682 said:


> Here you go @chickendrumsticks , that looks very nice indeed , what size is it ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 380185


20.5" so a wee bit small for me but hey, up with the saddle and give it whirl! 

The deal is done and collecting next weekend. Miles and miles and MILES away but worth it. Probably spend more on fuel than the bike cost... hey ho.
I may yet decide to do a gentle refurb especially given it was rattle canned years ago.
Which is why I enquired above about the appropriate transfers. Eddie, not Jim?


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## biggs682 (25 Oct 2017)

chickendrumsticks said:


> 20.5" so a wee bit small for me but hey, up with the saddle and give it whirl!
> 
> The deal is done and collecting next weekend. Miles and miles and MILES away but worth it. Probably spend more on fuel than the bike cost... hey ho.
> I may yet decide to do a gentle refurb especially given it was rattle canned years ago.
> Which is why I enquired above about the appropriate transfers. Eddie, not Jim?



@chickendrumsticks is it the one from the ctc site a couple of weeks ago ?

just enjoy it and then decide re refurb


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Oct 2017)

Hi biggs682 - sure is! The seller seemed to "go to sleep" so I pm'd sympathetically and she responded. The owner did a bit of racing BITD - Manchester Ladies Junior Champ by 18 but was unable to upgrade to sprints and tubs so didn't advance as far as she was, I'm sure, capable. 

And, of course, you're right; I should try it and enjoy it first. I believe it will be just right - relaxed geometry but as responsive as a 531 frame should be. More like the ride on my first proper machine, a Viking "Ian Steel Model". My last couple of re-furbs were a tad "road bike", a bit lively and jumpy for a man of my advanced years but great fun to do!

The seller's Dad was Alan Barker - sometime President of the Warrington Road Club. Grandad (Harry) was one of the founder members and the club’s annual 50m TT was The Harry Barker Memorial event. Her Dad was a pretty nifty bike racer in ‘the day’ and he took it up again just after she started racing. He was mentioned many times in the Cycling magazine apparently. I guess this may be of interest to the many now exploring Merseyside cycling? I am fast becoming one of them too, given the history that I knew nowt about. And great thanks to Bill Soens whose contribution is invaluable too.

Thanks biggs682 for your interest in my project - much appreciated - and love your blog! And thanks bazzer for your kind comment.


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## biggs682 (25 Oct 2017)

chickendrumsticks said:


> Hi biggs682 - sure is! The seller seemed to "go to sleep" so I pm'd sympathetically and she responded. The owner did a bit of racing BITD - Manchester Ladies Junior Champ by 18 but was unable to upgrade to sprints and tubs so didn't advance as far as she was, I'm sure, capable.
> 
> And, of course, you're right; I should try it and enjoy it first. I believe it will be just right - relaxed geometry but as responsive as a 531 frame should be. More like the ride on my first proper machine, a Viking "Ian Steel Model". My last couple of re-furbs were a tad "road bike", a bit lively and jumpy for a man of my advanced years but great fun to do!
> 
> ...



once you get your mitts on it we need some proper pics please and feel free to add some on my facebook page In Appreciation of Merseyside Bikes

Some nice history there


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## chickendrumsticks (26 Oct 2017)

Although I haven't got my mitts on it yet I've added a few more pics from the seller to my flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141591263@N05/?


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## biggs682 (26 Oct 2017)

chickendrumsticks said:


> Although I haven't got my mitts on it yet I've added a few more pics from the seller to my flickr.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/141591263@N05/?



Will have a look at them later


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## chickendrumsticks (15 Feb 2018)

Bill Soens said:


> Thanks for that information. Yes it was one of the last frames I built, based on the number and it would have been mid to late sixties, not the 70's. I have no records as to who I built for. They went a long time ago. The fact that it was acquired via Pete Matthews shop doesn't mean anything really. Most shops sold secondhand bikes of various makes. It will be 531 tubing - there was nothing else to match that until Columbus and then 753 came out. If it is an "invisible " sloping crown then the forks will be Italian tubing. If a normal crown, then they will be 531 as well. Cheers. Bill Soens.


Good morning all. Spring is (almost) upon us and the urge to start the restoration of my Eddie Soens (frame number 874) is now irresistable. Bill, if you read this, I can confirm that the forks have a normal crown and thus the frame is 531. Now, a further question arises - would it be 531 main tubes only or (more likely I think) "tubes, forks ansd stays"? I ask because I want to order the correct transfers from hlloydcycles. Many thanks for any info.


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## Drago (15 Feb 2018)

Probably just the main frame triangle.


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## chickendrumsticks (15 Feb 2018)

Drago said:


> Probably just the main frame triangle.


I think I've answered my own question - at least Bill did! In an earlier post re this bike he said " If a normal crown, then they will be 531 as well. Cheers. Bill Soens" ANd it is a normal crown.


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## biggs682 (15 Feb 2018)

chickendrumsticks said:


> I think I've answered my own question - at least Bill did! In an earlier post re this bike he said " If a normal crown, then they will be 531 as well. Cheers. Bill Soens" ANd it is a normal crown.


That's good then


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Mar 2018)

All components cleaned and serviced. Just awaiting return of frame...


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## PHL67 (25 Mar 2018)

What an interesting read. 
Nice to hear about the history behind the brand.
I have attached a picture of a friends Soens road bike.
This was refurbished last year by himself.
This is one of his collection.
I have asked for a serial number etc which he will send me later.
He tells me this is a Jim Soens (Eddies brother).


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Mar 2018)

What a terrific job. Looks like original paintwork too? Or a C & G respray perhaps. Here's hoping mine will look as good. Thanks for sharing PHL.


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## biggs682 (25 Mar 2018)

PHL67 said:


> View attachment 401450
> What an interesting read.
> Nice to hear about the history behind the brand.
> I have attached a picture of a friends Soens road bike.
> ...



Thats another nice smallish Soens


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## PHL67 (26 Mar 2018)

chickendrumsticks said:


> What a terrific job. Looks like original paintwork too? Or a C & G respray perhaps. Here's hoping mine will look as good. Thanks for sharing PHL.


This was painted by my friend who paints all of my bikes.
He loves painting and bringing them back to life.
He does older and newer steel.
He is based near Chelmsford in Essex.
Takes great pride in refurbishing them.


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## chickendrumsticks (27 Mar 2018)

I wish i had a friend like that! Just got my frame back from the refinishers (powder coaters actually). The usual terrific glossy finish. I'm having white panels on seat tube and head tube - although I'm going to do the masking myself. Here's a little pic.


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## chickendrumsticks (10 Apr 2018)

So, frame back from the sprayer, who made a pretty good job of the white panels. Strangely, he had contrived to finish the seat tube panel with its ends parallel to the top tube, not at right angles to the seat tube! I guess it's my fault for not making the instructions clear... Hence 16mm bands from Steve at hlloyd cycles, in addition to the thin 4mm red jobs I'd already ordered that wouldn't have covered up the error. But I used the thin ones as well. See the pics. Usual fab decals from Steve have lifted the finish beyond that I could have hoped for.


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## chickendrumsticks (23 Apr 2018)

And here it is ready to visit my LBS for gear adjustment.


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## biggs682 (24 Apr 2018)

That looks nice and subtle well done @chickendrumsticks


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## pawl (24 Apr 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Had this picture posted on my In Appreciation Of Merseyside Bikes Facebook page by Ian Watson and also commented
> 
> " My first proper bike, an Eddie Soens from the Boaler Street shop, c/w Mafac centre-pull brakes, had it from age 15, my pride and joy, then after I was married the mother-in-law gave it to the bin men, I was gutted "
> 
> View attachment 120809


4


biggs682 said:


> Had this picture posted on my In Appreciation Of Merseyside Bikes Facebook page by Ian Watson and also commented
> 
> " My first proper bike, an Eddie Soens from the Boaler Street shop, c/w Mafac centre-pull brakes, had it from age 15, my pride and joy, then after I was married the mother-in-law gave it to the bin men, I was gutted "
> 
> View attachment 120809





Like the old Ever Ready lights Which hand did you use to bash the front light when unexpectedly it went out.


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## pawl (24 Apr 2018)

chickendrumsticks said:


> And here it is ready to visit my LBS for gear adjustment.
> View attachment 405631
> View attachment 405632




Just needs the old double cage bottle carriers


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## biggs682 (24 Apr 2018)

pawl said:


> Just needs the old double cage bottle carriers



Very true


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Apr 2018)

biggs682 said:


> That looks nice and subtle well done @chickendrumsticks


Thanks Martin. Nice of you to say so. I have to acknowledge too that the saddle looks great!


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Apr 2018)

pawl said:


> 4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahh! The good old "Never Ready" lights. For the rear one it would be a swift back-heel first and if that failed to work you'd follow up with the precarious "lean down" and slap method which usually sent you across to the other side of the road! The front took a toe-punt, after which a further lean forward and slap which IIRC sent you careering into the kerb or verge! And they talk about to good old days. Now, of course, most people get round the problem by not having lights at all...


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## chickendrumsticks (25 Apr 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Very true


Would that be the bar mounted ones? I remember they rusted rather quickly but had the advantage of allowing a drink (with suitable straws) without taking hands off bars. Thus losing sight of the road ahead momentarily...add this to the Never Ready shenanigans and it's a wonder so many of us old boys survived to reminisce!


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## biggs682 (25 Apr 2018)

chickendrumsticks said:


> Thanks Martin. Nice of you to say so. I have to acknowledge too that the saddle looks great!



I hadn't noticed the saddle in all fairness and yes it looks right in place



chickendrumsticks said:


> Would that be the bar mounted ones? I remember they rusted rather quickly but had the advantage of allowing a drink (with suitable straws) without taking hands off bars. Thus losing sight of the road ahead momentarily...add this to the Never Ready shenanigans and it's a wonder so many of us old boys survived to reminisce!



Yep those are the ones , trouble is this day and age there are so many other things that mount on your bars ie lights , garmin , camera , phone in fact you name it 

Somewhere i have a clean old Simplex single holder that i need to find and then mount on my old Pollard


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## chickendrumsticks (26 Apr 2018)

So, now ready for the road. Rides very nicely, light and responsive (weighs in at 25lbs and "look Mum, no hands" is easy). As expected though it is quite a bit too small for me being a frame size of only 20.5". I'm around five nine or ten so I guess it would be perfect for a small gent - or a lady naturally - of smaller stature; say around five two to five six? Any interest out there I wonder?
View attachment 406088


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## chickendrumsticks (10 Jun 2018)

Now sold to a very nice man in London.


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