# A design positive....or negative?



## Dave 123 (9 Feb 2019)

We went to Rutland Cycles at Grafham today for me to buy a new saddle.

Naturally we had a good old letch at the new bikes, E mountain bikes bigger than a Harley, sleek and aero road bikes and then we came across this...
(Google pic)






Specialised bikes with a “thing” behind the chainring. I flippantly said to Jo ‘it’s somewhere to keep your sandwiches ‘

Turns out I wasn’t far wrong. It’s a tool shed that’ll also keep your spare tube. (Isn’t the world going tubeless?)

Is it more unsightly than a wedge bag behind the saddle, or a big old Caradice, or a bar bag?

I think it looks crap, but I’m also aware that I might be of the ‘we fear change’ persuasion.

Your thoughts?


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## Levo-Lon (9 Feb 2019)

I cant get past the seat post!! Hate it

Some new mtbs have got tool hiding places, in the BB and steerer..
I love ingenious engineering


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## mickle (9 Feb 2019)

Is it a gravelling bike?


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## Supersuperleeds (9 Feb 2019)

It's also expensive, about £75 if I remember


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## Old jon (9 Feb 2019)

Yup, extra weight as low as you can. 

Nope, I turn the bike upside down to remove a wheel.

Looks, cannot see it while I am riding.


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## NorthernDave (9 Feb 2019)

Hope it's waterproof / watertight all the way down there.

Personally I don't mind it, but it would look better on a black bike. But not for me at £75.


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## Supersuperleeds (9 Feb 2019)

I was wrong it isn't £75 it's £90!

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en_GB/road-kit/p/118708?color=214398-118708


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## Adam4868 (9 Feb 2019)

I saw someone with one of these,has that bike got a damper or something on the headset ? As for the toolbox,just a gimick,whats wrong with a saddle bag.For 90 quid ill ride with you and stick the stuff in my back pockets !


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## Supersuperleeds (9 Feb 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> I saw someone with one of these,has that bike got a damper or something on the headset ? As for the toolbox,just a gimick,whats wrong with a saddle bag.For 90 quid ill ride with you and stick the stuff in my back pockets !



Yes the Roubaix has the suspension on the headset.


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## screenman (9 Feb 2019)

£90 is not a lot of money to the customers they are after.


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## Slioch (9 Feb 2019)

Dave 123 said:


> or a big old Caradice



Oi!

Having a grotty looking Carradice saddlebag is a badge of honour for "real" cyclists.


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## roadrash (9 Feb 2019)

I don't like it personally but if folk are parting with £90 then someone must like it, each to their own I suppose


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## Smokin Joe (9 Feb 2019)

I just can't get past the 1980s British Telecom yellow. It looked bad enough on their vans, but on a bike....


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## Dave 123 (9 Feb 2019)

Slioch said:


> Oi!
> 
> Having a grotty looking Carradice saddlebag is a badge of honour for "real" cyclists.




Indeed. If you like that kind of thing


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## robjh (9 Feb 2019)

It looks a bit jarring as I've never seen anything there on a bike before, but seems like a good idea and I could get used to it. I'll wait till the price drops a bit first though...


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Feb 2019)

That costs the same as 19 bikes for @SkipdiverJohn


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## Adam4868 (9 Feb 2019)

robjh said:


> It looks a bit jarring as I've never seen anything there on a bike before, but seems like a good idea and I could get used to it. I'll wait till the price drops a bit first though...


Im thinking it's specific for the bike ? Maybe you have one though ?


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## steveindenmark (9 Feb 2019)

My mate has got the toolbox and he loves it. I have a specialized but think the toolbox is too expensive. 

I also have the Shockstop in the handlebars and they are great. 

These little touches make a lot of diffence .


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## nickyboy (9 Feb 2019)

Looks better than a seat post bag. Needs to come down in price but presumably will as alternatives enter the market
As @NorthernDave Dave says, waterproofness would be a concern there


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## StuAff (9 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> That costs the same as 19 bikes for @SkipdiverJohn


Only 19?


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## Markymark (9 Feb 2019)

Looks perfect. Since using my fast bike for commuting switch saddle bags and their attachments is a faff. Putting my tools in this would be considerably easier. Will order one tomorrow.

Edit: bottoms, looks like it’s not universal.


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Feb 2019)

meta lon said:


> I cant get past the seat post!! Hate it


I love it, would buy it to fit on my Genesis!
Actually, I like the look of the whole bike, shame I'm mainly an utilitarian cyclist, that bike would be wasted on me.
The tool bag?
Excellent idea, if it's waterproof and easily washable.
Needs to be of Ortlieb quality, I think ... it's already Ortlieb priced lol


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## tom73 (9 Feb 2019)

Never mind the water proofing it don't match the bike 
Turns out it comes with a money clip not sure why after paying 90 quid not sure if you'd have any left to put in one.


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## dave r (9 Feb 2019)

I'd rather have a saddle bag.


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Feb 2019)

tom73 said:


> Never mind the water proofing it don't match the bike
> Turns out it comes with a money clip not sure why after paying 90 quid not sure if you'd have any left to put in one.


Money clip??
Very old fashioned.
Bank card compartment, more modern.
What I would like in a bike tool bag is a separate compartment for putting your dirty inner, plus your oily gloves after a repair.


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> £90 is not a lot of money to the customers they are after.



You mean mug punters??



YukonBoy said:


> That costs the same as 19 bikes for @SkipdiverJohn





StuAff said:


> Only 19?



Sorry to disappoint you chaps, but the last bike I actually paid real legal tender for, cost me 99p, although I didn't have the temerity to ask for the change from the pound coin I used to pay for it. So that's the equivalent of me buying 91 bikes I can actually ride for the same money, as opposed to a single poncey tool bag that you, err, well can't ride!


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## Blue Hills (10 Feb 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> What I would like in a bike tool bag is a separate compartment for putting your dirty inner, plus your oily gloves after a repair.


That's what the small light bags you get street market fruit and veg are for.
As to the original post I'd be concerned about water as some have said but more seriously general road grot. In short unecessary for most folks. But can see it being of interest to roadies who have run out of space in their back pockets and don't want to fall on their tools.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You mean mug punters??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have asked you before but you never answer, what else are you going to do with your money.


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## Blue Hills (10 Feb 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I was wrong it isn't £75 it's £90!
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/gb/en_GB/road-kit/p/118708?color=214398-118708


mm

and just noticed that, in the interests of minimalism it reckons you will fix your punctures with a gas cartridge.

And just one spare tube.

If many of these are let loose I can see a few folks cadging help from passing folk with proper pumps.

And did anyone notice the single review? A poor chap found that the single tube provided had a hole in it and he had to get the wife to come and pick him up.

I fear anything with too clever a name convinces folk that you can pay for a flash SOLUTION and switch your brain off.

As the scouts used to say, just "be prepared". Dib dib.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> I have asked you before but you never answer, what else are you going to do with your money.



I jntend to retire early on it, don't fancy being forced to work until 67 if I don't want to. Having money and no debt gives options not open to those frantically running on the hamster wheel just to get to the end of every month. I know a lot of people who hate their jobs, or just hate the idea of having to work full stop, but due to their dysfunctional financial habits, they may even have to keep going *after* the state pension age, because they've got no assets to speak of and no private pension/investments. Working on is fine if you enjoy it and are still fit, but it's drudgery if not done by choice.


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## Illaveago (10 Feb 2019)

mickle said:


> Is it a gravelling bike?


Has the CC letter altering thing swapped an O for an A ?


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## Illaveago (10 Feb 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I was wrong it isn't £75 it's £90!
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/gb/en_GB/road-kit/p/118708?color=214398-118708


How much !  

Do they keep their brains in it ?


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I jntend to retire early on it, don't fancy being forced to work until 67 if I don't want to. Having money and no debt gives options not open to those frantically running on the hamster wheel just to get to the end of every month. I know a lot of people who hate their jobs, or just hate the idea of having to work full stop, but due to their dysfunctional financial habits, they may even have to keep going *after* the state pension age, because they've got no assets to speak of and no private pension/investments. Working on is fine if you enjoy it and are still fit, but it's drudgery if not done by choice.


Not everyone that spends money on expensive bikes is in debt or struggling


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I jntend to retire early on it, don't fancy being forced to work until 67 if I don't want to. Having money and no debt gives options not open to those frantically running on the hamster wheel just to get to the end of every month. I know a lot of people who hate their jobs, or just hate the idea of having to work full stop, but due to their dysfunctional financial habits, they may even have to keep going *after* the state pension age, because they've got no assets to speak of and no private pension/investments. Working on is fine if you enjoy it and are still fit, but it's drudgery if not done by choice.



I agree with all of that, but when is enough? what happens when you are already putting a £1,000 a month into the pot, that is my point, not everyone who earns good money and likes to spend it is a mug. I have written a good few times that I feel sorry for people who have to do jobs they do not enjoy, how anyone ends up doing that is alien to me, lack of motivation I suppose.

I have pensioner friends spending £5,000plus on bikes, are they mugs? They have more money coming in than they spend each week and enjoy lavish lifestyles, they made good choices I suppose.


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2019)

On the theme of ugly expensive tool boxes 
Giants version even have a hob attached to the seat post 






Trek are on the bandwagon but have added a twist of fun and their one falls off every now and then


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

Wow, if my legs were of any use I would be out buying one of them.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

Looking at this from another way, if you earned say £90 a day would you spend £30 on it, now if you earned £400 a day £90 is suddenly not a lot, certainly not as much as £30 to the £90 a day guy. As a business owner you take your choices, sell to the masses or the classes.


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## Levo-Lon (10 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> Wow, if my legs were of any use I would be out buying one of them.



You may need a chiropractor in that tool box . I certainly would


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## Illaveago (10 Feb 2019)

Ah Ha! It is made so that you can hide an electric motor in it !


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## Levo-Lon (10 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> Looking at this from another way, if you earned say £90 a day would you spend £30 on it, now if you earned £400 a day £90 is suddenly not a lot, certainly not as much as £30 to the £90 a day guy. As a business owner you take your choices, sell to the masses or the classes.



What troubles me these days is the phone phenomenon... Off topic but as were talking expenditure ..
Young people have a fancy phone and pay £30-£50 a month for them.
I see it often in my work place.. They are usually the one's on £8.75 an hr ! They often complain about being skint 2 weeks before pay day..
Being financially sick is not a nice place to be but so much is self inflicted. 

In my old self employed job i usually earned £30- £50 an hour when working, now its £10 an hr 37.5 hrs working in care.
I still have a almost debt free lifestyle due to my unwillingness to get into debt, and i try and live below my means.. 
It's a struggle but i think im happier at work than I've been for years. Stress free Almost, I'm lucky in that i almost own my house and can live cheaply.. We seem to be a live for today society, renting is the norm grab what you can..


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## Slow But Determined (10 Feb 2019)

Going back to the original picture wouldn't it foul the bottom of your bottle cages or have they cleverly made cages that work in tandem with the tool box, presumably at a "nice price"


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

meta lon said:


> What troubles me these days is the phone phenomenon... Off topic but as were talking expenditure ..
> Young people have a fancy phone and pay £30-£50 a month for them.
> I see it often in my work place.. They are usually the one's on £8.75 an hr ! They often complain about being skint 2 weeks before pay day..
> Being financially sick is not a nice place to be but so much is self inflicted.
> ...



I know of a young mechanic. 35 years old with two young kids, their standing orders are £1850 a month, madness total madness, that is before food etc. That is real stress. Now they are mugs, what are not mugs are people who can afford things without stretching themselves financially.


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## byegad (10 Feb 2019)

It's ideally placed to keep your tools rust free, merely gritty and oily from road crud and chain grease.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

byegad said:


> It's ideally placed to keep your tools rust free, merely gritty and oily from road crud and chain grease.



Would that bike ever get dirty, anyways the tools would be fine, that box/bag not so.


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2019)

The last bike component I bought took me around 5 minutes at work to earn enough to buy it. I might buy something next week that I’ll have to work 20minutes to buy.

Of course I could spend, say an hours wages on my children, in which case people get up in arms about spoiling kids. Maybe I could spend it on food which would apparently by obscene. I guess the sensible thing to do is not spend the money I earn and put it into a savings account where it does nothing for the economy. Obviously this is after all my tax is paid which pays for a number of essential workers, abd the charity my business does which is worth thousands and thousands. So all in all, spending a fraction of my earnings on something considered generally good all round like cycling, sounds good to me.


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Feb 2019)

Slow But Determined said:


> Going back to the original picture wouldn't it foul the bottom of your bottle cages or have they cleverly made cages that work in tandem with the tool box, presumably at a "nice price"



The down tube has three holes for the bottle cage so if you have the tool kit you can sit the bottle higher up the frame, if not you can have it in the traditional position


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## Drago (10 Feb 2019)

It looks like the bike has a colostomy bag.


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## midlife (10 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> It looks like the bike has a colostomy bag.



But it's SWAT


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## Pale Rider (10 Feb 2019)

Given that most of us carry some bits and pieces, bikes could be better designed to meet that need.

Putting stuff in a bag to hang off the back of the saddle or the handlebars is hardly an elegant solution.

It's the triumph of form over function.

Very hard to make a luggage compartment look sexy - as this bike shows - so most bikes don't have one.


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## NorthernDave (10 Feb 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> What I would like in a bike tool bag is a separate compartment for putting your *dirty inner*, plus your *oily gloves* after a repair.



They go in the hedge don't they..?* 


* - I'd like to point out that the above is a *joke *in case anyone doesn't have a sense of humour. I always put my rubbish in a bin, or take it home with me and recycle where possible


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## rogerzilla (10 Feb 2019)

It's a rubbish place for a bag. It gets covered in mud and a low C of G is not what you want on a bike.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Feb 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> It's a rubbish place for a bag. It gets covered in mud and a low C of G is not what you want on a bike.


I'll agree about the rubbish bag, but a low C of G is exactly what you want on a bike, or on any vehicle for that matter.


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## rogerzilla (10 Feb 2019)

No, a bike is more like an inverted pendulum in the way it balances (so more weight up top actually reduces the frequency of oscillation, making it easier to balance), and it leans in corners. I'd agree with you for a trike.


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## Edwardoka (10 Feb 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> No, a bike is more like an inverted pendulum in the way it balances (so more weight up top actually reduces the frequency of oscillation, making it easier to balance), and it leans in corners. I'd agree with you for a trike.


Quite. After coming back from a month of fully loaded touring, taking to my road bike with a big backpack felt like I was going to flip any time I turned the handlebars. Took me a good while to relearn how to ride with a high centre of mass and without weight held low on the forks..

Edit: reading comprehension fail on my part
I think my point is that you can get accustomed to most weight distributions.


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## Adam4868 (10 Feb 2019)

Im thinking it's a useless discussion though unless you own a Specialized bike Roubaix ? As the bag is specific to the bike.
I'm still not convinced it looks any better than the million different saddle bags or even a bottle cage tool holder ?


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## Nebulous (10 Feb 2019)

meta lon said:


> What troubles me these days is the phone phenomenon... Off topic but as were talking expenditure ..
> Young people have a fancy phone and pay £30-£50 a month for them.
> I see it often in my work place.. They are usually the one's on £8.75 an hr ! They often complain about being skint 2 weeks before pay day..
> Being financially sick is not a nice place to be but so much is self inflicted.
> ...



Lifestyle choices are where an awful lot of money goes, but people dress it up as 'essentials.' I agree with you on the phones. I was looking at leased cars at one point - trying to find the cheapest one I could. I found a seat mii on a two year deal for £67 a month. I realised that some of my colleagues were paying more than that for their phone. 

There is a middle ground - though that is getting hollowed out as we are all going to extremes. You get cheap gyms and expensive gyms for instance, with the middle being squeezed. Some people run bangers for a few hundred pounds cash and others run £50k cars. 

I think a lot of us on here would be in the middle ground bikewise, with a few outliers at both ends. Skipdiver John helps us keep a sense of perspective that not everyone values a bike in the same way.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I jntend to retire early on it, don't fancy being forced to work until 67 if I don't want to. Having money and no debt gives options not open to those frantically running on the hamster wheel just to get to the end of every month. I know a lot of people who hate their jobs, or just hate the idea of having to work full stop, but due to their dysfunctional financial habits, they may even have to keep going *after* the state pension age, because they've got no assets to speak of and no private pension/investments. Working on is fine if you enjoy it and are still fit, but it's drudgery if not done by choice.



What happens if you depart before retiring, let us not forget the lovely Vernon.


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## Pat "5mph" (10 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> What happens if you depart before retiring, let us not forget the lovely Vernon.


One needs to find a happy spending medium, after having done a basic "will I still be alive at ..." risk assessment.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> One needs to find a happy spending medium, after having done a basic "will I still be alive at ..." risk assessment.



I agree. Around these parts it is quite common to live like a pauper whilst having hundreds of thousands in the bank, but because they have spent their lives being frugal they cannot change.


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## Nebulous (10 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> I agree. Around these parts it is quite common to live like a pauper whilst having hundreds of thousands in the bank, but because they have spent their lives being frugal they cannot change.



We've just had a murder trial - where the victim, who did 'cash-in-hand' car repairs, had over £200k in cash in his cottage. We were wondering idly whether he had any plans to do anything with it, other than just keep accumulating more.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

Classic example of the above, I know of a woman who owns 5 houses, her kids are skint despite being hard workers, the grandchildren are a delight, yet she is too tight to help them out, fine one day they will get it but why not now.


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## screenman (10 Feb 2019)

Nebulous said:


> We've just had a murder trial - where the victim, who did 'cash-in-hand' car repairs, had over £200k in cash in his cottage. We were wondering idly whether he had any plans to do anything with it, other than just keep accumulating more.



That is so sad.


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2019)

Markymark said:


> The last bike component I bought took me around 5 minutes at work to earn enough to buy it. I might buy something next week that I’ll have to work 20minutes to buy.



I have to say , your collection of dust caps is amazing !


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2019)

Cuchilo said:


> I have to say , your collection of dust caps is amazing !


Not bad considering they were 2nd hand.


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## Drago (10 Feb 2019)

Why not make the down tube very thin walled, but 4 or 5 inches in diameter and fit a hatch so we can stow stuff inside the frame?


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## Mo1959 (11 Feb 2019)

My new Ruby came with it but I personally don't like the look of it so will just stick with my Topeak saddle wedge.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2019)

screenman said:


> Wow, if my legs were of any use I would be out buying one of them.



You're welcome to them, I wouldn't ride any of those ugly carbon TT bikes even if they were given to me free! The colour scheme on the Giant especially is enough to make me need to go and have a lie down after seeing it. The Trek is marginally better, but neither of them look remotely like what I would consider a proper bike.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You're welcome to them, I wouldn't ride any of those ugly carbon TT bikes even if they were given to me free! The colour scheme on the Giant especially is enough to make me need to go and have a lie down after seeing it. The Trek is marginally better, but neither of them look remotely like what I would consider a proper bike.


How about a few photos of your bikes, so we can see how it should be done?


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## screenman (11 Feb 2019)

Thank you John if you find one in a skip I will happily pay carriage.


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## Illaveago (11 Feb 2019)

Are they trying to emulate the Ariel Leader ?


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## User6179 (11 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> How about a few photos of your bikes, so we can see how it should be done?


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> How about a few photos of your bikes, so we can see how it should be done?



There's a few of mine on the forum, all in makers colours apart from a pub hack I brush painted as the original paint was horrid. All steel, with normal sized tubing. No oversize ali, no moulded carbon.



screenman said:


> Thank you John if you find one in a skip I will happily pay carriage.



I generally only encounter cheapies & BSO's in skips, but if I ever do chance on one of those carbon TT monstrosities, I will be more than happy to send it to you!



Eddy said:


> View attachment 451855



Oddly enough I spotted someone riding one of those a couple of months ago in West London. A very smart metallic blue effort, I get the impression it might have been a modern replica rather than an original. Quite an impressive sight, but hardly practical for traffic!


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## frankiemann93 (11 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> I just can't get past the 1980s British Telecom yellow. It looked bad enough on their vans, but on a bike....


Agreed, Love a throwback but this isn't cool at all! This is what I imagine the AA would use, if they came out to cyclists!


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## Racing roadkill (11 Feb 2019)

Dave 123 said:


> We went to Rutland Cycles at Grafham today for me to buy a new saddle.
> 
> Naturally we had a good old letch at the new bikes, E mountain bikes bigger than a Harley, sleek and aero road bikes and then we came across this...
> (Google pic)
> ...



The shock absorber fork is a worse idea.


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## youngoldbloke (11 Feb 2019)

Why not go the whole hog and get one of these. Plenty of room for tools, tubes, spare tyre, sandwiches - everything, really.





Seriously - what's the difference between the S Works box/bag and the really uncool triangular bag that fits in the corner of the seat and top tube?


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## Racing roadkill (11 Feb 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Seriously - what's the difference between the S Works box/bag and the really uncool triangular bag that fits in the corner of the seat and top tube?


 About 50 quid.


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## Globalti (11 Feb 2019)

I would remove it straight away because the stuff inside it would rattle or get damp and rusty if I wrapped it in a cloth to prevent rattling. Everything goes in my jersey pockets.


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## NorthernDave (11 Feb 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Why not go the whole hog and get one of these. Plenty of room for tools, tubes, spare tyre, sandwiches - everything, really.
> 
> View attachment 451871
> 
> ...



That looks like it would be fun in a crosswind...


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## Threevok (11 Feb 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> That looks like it would be fun in a crosswind...



I've tried one - they aren't


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## Smokin Joe (11 Feb 2019)

Globalti said:


> I would remove it straight away because the stuff inside it would rattle or get damp and rusty if I wrapped it in a cloth to prevent rattling. Everything goes in my jersey pockets.


Just like those tool holders that fit in a bottle cage.


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## roadrash (11 Feb 2019)

I find the tools make the water taste funny


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Feb 2019)

Nebulous said:


> I think a lot of us on here would be in the middle ground bikewise, with a few outliers at both ends. Skipdiver John helps us keep a sense of perspective that not everyone values a bike in the same way.



The value I place on my machines depends on factors like the build & ride quality and usefulness of them. I do differentiate between "good" bikes and hacks; and although I would not lose much sleep over the loss of a hack bike, I would be mighty vexed if anything happened to a "good" one. Some might get the impression that I don't value my bikes because I only ever pay peanuts for them secondhand, and refuse to get drawn in by marketing BS for new ones. Nothing could be further from the truth; however I do not approach bike purchase like a kid let loose in a sweet shop, unlike all those grown men who really ought to know better.


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## screenman (12 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The value I place on my machines depends on factors like the build & ride quality and usefulness of them. I do differentiate between "good" bikes and hacks; and although I would not lose much sleep over the loss of a hack bike, I would be mighty vexed if anything happened to a "good" one. Some might get the impression that I don't value my bikes because I only ever pay peanuts for them secondhand, and refuse to get drawn in by marketing BS for new ones. Nothing could be further from the truth; however I do not approach bike purchase like a kid let loose in a sweet shop, unlike all those grown men who really ought to know better.



Or like those grown men with plenty of disposable income.


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## roadrash (13 Feb 2019)

it really is time skipdiver john removed the blinkers, not everyone that buys something new has "been drawn in by marketing bullsh!t" maybe , just maybe, now I know this may sound unreasonable but maybe someone buys something new because its what they want, and can afford it.


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## EltonFrog (13 Feb 2019)

roadrash said:


> it really is time skipdiver john removed the blinkers, not everyone that buys something new has "been drawn in by marketing bullsh!t" maybe , just maybe, now I know this may sound unreasonable but maybe someone buys something new because its what they want, and can afford it.



And it’s quite possible that new, modern bikes maybe, and I know this can be controversial, in fact often are, much better than old bikes. I know, it’s ‘out there’ opinions wise.


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## Globalti (13 Feb 2019)

I haven't read the whole thread but AFAIK nobody has mentioned the word "fun". Modern bikes are built to be light, smooth-riding, comfortable and fun to ride, which is why so many people who cycled as children have come back as born-again cyclists. I enjoy riding my endurance bike all the year round but when summer comes there's no better sensation than cruising easily along in the sun on my fast, light racer. It makes me feel happy, young, fulfilled and energised and keeps me extremely fit. I've no time for inverted snobs who claim that any old piece of iron will do because they've never actually ridden a pedigree bike. 

I'm not into fast cars but I bet enthusiasts would say the same about Morris Minor drivers.


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## EltonFrog (13 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> New things better than old things? Wash your mouth out with soap*
> 
> * Wrights coal tar soap, naturally - none of this modern liquid rubbish.


How about Pears soap, I like the smell.


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## Threevok (13 Feb 2019)

CarlP said:


> How about Pears soap, I like the smell.



I bought that the other day.


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## Biff600 (13 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> * Wrights coal tar soap, naturally - none of this modern liquid rubbish.



There is no coal tar in "coal tar" soap any more, due to a European Directive, coal tar is banned in non-prescription products, so you may as well use the modern liquid rubbish !!


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## TheDoctor (13 Feb 2019)

Coal tar soap still smells like coal tar, which is the main thing IMHO.
It reminds me of my grandparents, who always had coal tar soap.


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## FishFright (13 Feb 2019)

I wonder who first looked at a puddle of hot coal tar and thought " That would make a smashing soap" ?


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## Globalti (13 Feb 2019)

If you could go back to your youth and smell again some old familiar products you would be almost literally blown away by the smells. There is so much elf 'n safety paranoia nowadays that industrial perfumes have changed massively. Smell Brut or Imperial Leather and you will be smelling a mere pastiche of the original as the lovely musks and leathery notes have all gone. Our noses just don't encounter those molecules in normal life and it's said that if we could go back to smell the perfumes of the sixties and earlier, we would be amazed. This is why so many modern fragrances are watery and vaguely fruity.


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## NorthernDave (13 Feb 2019)

FishFright said:


> I wonder who first looked at a puddle of hot coal tar and thought " That would make a smashing soap" ?



Possibly the same person who was a bit thirsty and decided to milk a cow for a refreshing drink...?


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## FishFright (13 Feb 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> Possibly the same person who was a bit thirsty and decided to milk a cow for a refreshing drink...?



Cor he gets about a bit.


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## Biff600 (13 Feb 2019)

FishFright said:


> I wonder who first looked at a puddle of hot coal tar and thought " That would make a smashing soap" ?



.....or the same person that saw an egg fall out of a chicken and thought, "I'll eat that" !!


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## roadrash (13 Feb 2019)

or who dug up a dirty spud and thought I will peel this cut it into thin strips, go kill an animal , melt all its fat , throw the strips of spud in for a bit and I will call them chips, im glad they did though


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## Threevok (13 Feb 2019)

Or the first person to have piles, find a dead shark on the beach and sit on it's liver


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## SpokeyDokey (13 Feb 2019)

What I want to know is are the centres of those discs really black on the Spesh in the OP?


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## Grant Fondo (13 Feb 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I was wrong it isn't £75 it's £90!
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/gb/en_GB/road-kit/p/118708?color=214398-118708


Oh i thought you meant the bike.


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## Adam4868 (13 Feb 2019)

SpokeyDokey said:


> What I want to know is are the centres of those discs really black on the Spesh in the OP?


Yep,it's a special edition,so a special specialized ! I know some don't like it but I do.
https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-roubaix-mclaren-dura-ace-di2/p/134255


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2019)

Or the first person who saw a sprout and thought it edible.


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## Grant Fondo (13 Feb 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> Yep,it's a special edition,so a special specialized ! I know some don't like it but I do.
> https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-roubaix-mclaren-dura-ace-di2/p/134255


Gulp! Well its cheaper than a McLaren (just)


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## Adam4868 (13 Feb 2019)

Grant Fondo said:


> Gulp! Well its cheaper than a McLaren (just)


Pub bike !


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## Cycleops (15 Feb 2019)

Seems very reasonable and practical , have you seen a Rolls Royce option list?


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Feb 2019)

Globalti said:


> I haven't read the whole thread but AFAIK nobody has mentioned the word "fun". Modern bikes are built to be light, smooth-riding, comfortable and fun to ride, which is why so many people who cycled as children have come back as born-again cyclists..



Presumably all the born again cyclists rode steel bikes when they were children, and still had fun riding them? I rode steel bikes as a youngster and enjoyed it. I still ride older steel bikes as an adult - and I still enjoy it. The fun factor has always been there - so long as you actually enjoy riding in the first place. All my bikes are smooth and comfortable to ride, even the skip ones, and some of them are reasonably light. Are you trying to say that as a kid you could have fun riding a steel bike, but as an adult you can't?


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## Globalti (15 Feb 2019)

No.


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## Adam4868 (15 Feb 2019)

Unless your a pro,competetive cyclist i dont think theres a lot in it.Ive a full carbon and a steel,very little difference in riding them.There again i had a full carbon,ultegra,great wheels bike that i sold as i didnt really like it.It was red ! Never really liked the colour.You have to like something,then it becomes what you want.


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Feb 2019)

Adam4868 said:


> again i had a full carbon,ultegra,great wheels bike that i sold as i didnt really like it.It was red ! Never really liked the colour.You have to like something,then it becomes what you want.



That begs the question, if you didn't like it that much, what made you buy it in the first place? Given that it probably cost a hundred times the amount I pay for my secondhand steels, you surely wouldn't just take a punt on an expensive bike and hope for the best. Or would you? I'm actually quite fussy what I buy secondhand, even though its only beer money involved. I still have to like the appearance or see some potential, and I'll only ever go for stuff with the sort of geometry I'm happy riding on; i.e. not overly twitchy.


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## Adam4868 (15 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> That begs the question, if you didn't like it that much, what made you buy it in the first place? Given that it probably cost a hundred times the amount I pay for my secondhand steels, you surely wouldn't just take a punt on an expensive bike and hope for the best. Or would you? I'm actually quite fussy what I buy secondhand, even though its only beer money involved. I still have to like the appearance or see some potential, and I'll only ever go for stuff with the sort of geometry I'm happy riding on; i.e. not overly twitchy.


Bought the frame for 60 quid and built it up,thought I could live with it.Which I did,took it to France a few times.Theres was nothing uncomfortable or wrong with it.I just decided to sell it and buy something different.Its about what 'you' like,not what your told to like.
I've got a bike with Ultegra and one with Tiagra,I probally think the Ultegra is better,why ? There the same,in fact the Tiagra is newer and marginally smoother.


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