# Bike under lorry at Ludgate Circus - Again



## NeilC (17 Oct 2014)

Once again this awful, awful junction has had a severe accident.

http://www.london24.com/news/cyclis..._circus_a201_near_farringdon_street_1_3810641

Was just down there getting lunch and from the size of the lorry involved it cannot be good.


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## Kiwiavenger (17 Oct 2014)

hope she is ok. im glad i dont have to cycle in a city anymore!


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## sidevalve (17 Oct 2014)

All fine but WHAT HAPPENED ? No point jumping to conclusions and ranting about roads/skip lorrys/junctions etc until there are FACTS to deal with.


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## Mrs M (17 Oct 2014)

All that matters just now is that a young lady is fighting for her life, hope she makes a full recovery


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## Accy cyclist (18 Oct 2014)

Skip/tipper truck drivers must be the most horrible "professional" drivers out there! Thick as pig sh.t and with a vile attitude to boot!


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## Kiwiavenger (20 Oct 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29691951

looks like the young lady has died.

RIP


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## Beebo (20 Oct 2014)




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## Mrs M (20 Oct 2014)

Very sad news


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## Colin_P (20 Oct 2014)

That is so sad.

I'm quite new here and was wondering there is a big massive sticky somewhere at the frontend / gateway to the forum that gives vital safety information for novices i.e.

"Never filter on the left of heavy vehicles, they cannot see you and due to their turning circle they will cut corners and you will get horrifically crushed. Don't put yourself in danger"

Or words to that effect. What is obvious to us isn't for many.

Having read this and every time I read about one it gives me a cold shiver and makes me feel sick.


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## Beebo (20 Oct 2014)

Colin_P said:


> That is so sad.
> 
> I'm quite new here and was wondering there is a big massive sticky somewhere at the frontend / gateway to the forum that gives vital safety information for novices i.e.
> 
> ...


Commuting Forum has a sticky with similar advice.


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## Tynan (20 Oct 2014)

I like to think I'm an experienced and sound London commuter, I came into Ludgate Circus from the East a few months ago and found it a rather alarming junction I have to say, the approach was dodgy but once onto the junction there's a lot of it and it's hard to read with an awful lot of open space pulling traffic off to the left

as for filtering to the left of skip trucks, yes, but if they come up from behind you and then hang left there's not much you can do about that other than be in a strong position but that's not awfully practical in London traffic and a lot of riders aren't that savvy or confident


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## Racing roadkill (20 Oct 2014)

You have to be very assertive with this bit of road. You cannot faff about, or change your mind once you've set off. I've had one or two 'truck touches' there over the years. It's disconcerting, but it happens. The amount of odd shaped, or massive trucks has increased since crossrail started as well.


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## Domestique (21 Oct 2014)

RiP


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## Beebo (22 Oct 2014)

She was a 26 y/o German post grad, who had only been in London for 6 weeks.
Very sad.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ze-opportunity-to-improve-safety-9810327.html


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## albion (22 Oct 2014)

Very sad.

“She was a very experienced cyclist and she rode all the time when she was in Germany."
"She was the 10th cyclist to die in London this year, the fourth whose death involved an HGV and the second to die in six months at Ludgate Circus"

I have doubts that anything equips you for London. It is insane cycling there at so so many interpoints.


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## albion (22 Oct 2014)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-calls-cycle-superhighway-improvements-140492
"The junction, where six cyclists were killed or seriously injured between 2008-2012"

6 in a few years at one junction. How many deaths does it really take to make those in charge of road safety culpable ?


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## albion (22 Oct 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...yists-battle-london-cycle-lanes-boris-johnson
http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.com/2014/10/canary-wharf-finance-director-must.html

Good god, no wonder little changes.


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## Tynan (23 Oct 2014)

perhaps very experienced but that doesn't mean she was experienced with London rush hour traffic and junctions and road layout.


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## Tynan (11 Nov 2014)

I rode through from the East again last week on a lumbering Boris Bike with a slipping gear but forewarned was forearmed, as long as you get out from a confident postion and pick up the line to straight on early it's fine but if you do anything like hug the left, you're very quickly in a lot of open space all going to the left turn


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## J1888 (3 Jun 2015)

User13710 said:


> The BBC2 programme 'An Hour to Save Your Life' tonight featured this incident, in a very sad departure from the optimism of its title. Her family must have given permission for the showing of very explicit footage of the surgery carried out at the roadside, when a doctor performed open heart massage. The heroic way in which the HEMS team, paramedics, and trauma surgeons at the Royal London fought in vain to save this young woman named Janina was both astounding and very moving.



Jesus :-( Fair play indeed to the Dr, terrible what happened to the poor girl. I cycle that junction every day and it's a bad one indeed.


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## subaqua (3 Jun 2015)

User13710 said:


> The BBC2 programme 'An Hour to Save Your Life' tonight featured this incident, in a very sad departure from the optimism of its title. Her family must have given permission for the showing of very explicit footage of the surgery carried out at the roadside, when a doctor performed open heart massage. The heroic way in which the HEMS team, paramedics, and trauma surgeons at the Royal London fought in vain to save this young woman named Janina was both astounding and very moving.



I watched that with the missus , she turned white.

I am so glad that they didn't fall into the helmet trap though as it was not mentioned once.

if anybody who cycles in London has some shrapnel in their pocket , dropping it into the London air ambulance fund will be greatly appreciated. https://londonsairambulance.co.uk/donate
My work bonus went into the 2nd heli fund this year.


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## Origamist (5 Jun 2015)

User13710 said:


> The BBC2 programme 'An Hour to Save Your Life' tonight featured this incident, in a very sad departure from the optimism of its title. Her family must have given permission for the showing of very explicit footage of the surgery carried out at the roadside, when a doctor performed open heart massage. The heroic way in which the HEMS team, paramedics, and trauma surgeons at the Royal London fought in vain to save this young woman named Janina was both astounding and very moving.


 
Definitely. I watched it on iPlayer yesterday and it was incredibly harrowing and inspiring at the same time. I was teary by the end when her mother and husband talked about Janina's all too short life.

The driver, Vincent Doyle, 44, of Brent, has been summoned to appear at City of London magistrates’ court on July 13 over allegations he caused the death by careless driving.


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## Full Metal Sprocket (10 Jun 2015)

Tynan said:


> perhaps very experienced but that doesn't mean she was experienced with London rush hour traffic and junctions and road layout.



Got to agree,knowing the road layout and how it all works on a certain route does help a bit as you know where the likely problems will be and act accordingly.Still,you can always get caught out by unexpected hazards.(as I have found out,myself)

R.I.P


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## glenn forger (23 Jun 2015)

Origamist said:


> The driver, Vincent Doyle, 44, of Brent





> Danny" Reidar Farr, killed October 1, 1999, junction of Westbourne Grove and Hereford Road, by a left turning skip lorry, driven by Vincent Doyle, operated by PowerDay. Despite witness evidence that driver failed to signal, court acquitted driver."
> 
> autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/oct04/oct11news2


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## Milkfloat (23 Jun 2015)

Blimey if it is the same man, then that is beyond a coincidence.


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## Sittingduck (23 Jun 2015)

Awful - the junction needs to be re-designed, really. Never had an incident myself there - using it twice a day for 7 years but I can see how it can be a nightmare. Too much happening and the ped crossing light sequence on Farringdon Rd/New Bridge St needs to be changed. Too many issues when you're turning left from the hill towards the bridge.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jul 2015)

Tipper driver in court accused of causing the death of Janina Gelhau by turning left across her as she rode along cycle lane.

_“She was on a pedal cycle at the near side of the lorry. Mr Doyle turned left activating an automatic speaker system which said ‘this vehicle is turning left’. Ms Gehlau was also travelling south and wanted to go straight on in the cycle lane south along Farringdon Street. She was riding her bike along the cycle lane when the lorry collided with Ms Gehlau.”_​
GC


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2016)

_"Vincent Doyle, 45, is on trial at the Old Bailey accused of causing the death of German postgraduate student Janina Gehlau by careless driving on 17 October 2014. He denies the charge."_

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ow-he-pleaded-with-injured-cyclist-to-hold-on


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## Accy cyclist (31 Mar 2016)

"He said: “At first I was angry, thinking ‘what is this person doing?’ but once I got closer I saw how injured she was.

“I was taking her pulse, chatting to her all the time. I was holding her hand, telling her ‘please hang on’. We were chatting away. And then she died. She died just as the ambulance got there"





It's so sad reading this. One day we could set off and never return. Take care out there!


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## Origamist (31 Mar 2016)

Nearside mirrors not properly adjusted, did not check the Trixi mirror on the traffic light, and thought the traffic light he stopped at for 23secs was green and not red. He also states Janina died there and then, when we know the emergency paramedics did an amazing job (open heart surgery) by the roadside and she was taken to hospital where she died some days later.

At least Doyle comforted her by the roadside, but this was after a witness overheard him shouting: "Oh my God, You stupid girl, didn't you hear I was turning left?".


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## Accy cyclist (31 Mar 2016)

Origamist said:


> Nearside mirrors not properly adjusted, did not check the Trixi mirror on the traffic light, and thought the traffic light he stopped at for 23secs was green and not red. He also states Janina died there and then, when we know the emergency paramedics did an amazing job (open heart surgery) by the roadside and she was taken to hospital where she died some days later.
> 
> At least Doyle comforted her by the roadside, but this was after a witness overheard him shouting: "Oh my God, You stupid girl, didn't you hear I was turning left?".



Why did he say she died at the scene, if he knows it's a fact she died in hospital a few days later?


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## Origamist (31 Mar 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Why did he say she died at the scene, if he knows it's a fact she died in hospital a few days later?



Her heart stopped beating at the scene and the paramedics/Doctor pumped her heart by hand - perhaps he was led away and that created some confusion. However, it really does highlight how little he recalls of the event (apart from his clear recollection that he checked his mirror 5 or 6 times before turning left).


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## deptfordmarmoset (31 Mar 2016)

Origamist said:


> However, it really does highlight how little he recalls of the event (apart from his clear recollection that he checked his mirror 5 or 6 times before turning left).


While he wasn't stopped at red.


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## Origamist (31 Mar 2016)

Acquitted.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-by-london-lorry-cries-as-driver-is-acquitted


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## Racing roadkill (31 Mar 2016)

Origamist said:


> Acquitted.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-by-london-lorry-cries-as-driver-is-acquitted



Sadly, that doesn't surprise me.


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## growingvegetables (31 Mar 2016)

Origamist said:


> Acquitted.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-by-london-lorry-cries-as-driver-is-acquitted


Awful.


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## simonsch (31 Mar 2016)




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## Origamist (31 Mar 2016)

simonsch said:


> View attachment 123388



Yes, this was mentioned upthread. It remains unclear if they are the same person.


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## simonsch (31 Mar 2016)

Origamist said:


> Yes, this was mentioned upthread. It remains unclear if they are the same person.


Sorry, missed that. Hopefully we will find out.


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## glenn forger (31 Mar 2016)

Is it a lane or not? It makes no sense, the argument spirals up into nothing. There's a cycle lane. The cyclist did nothing wrong. Ffs cyclists get enough grief about using cycle lanes. So Janina was using the cycle lane. It's a lane. The clue's in the name. She was in her lane and the driver turned across her and the legal system says "Ah, you see it isn't a lane. She might have been confused with Germany". It is a lane. Janina had priority. If I'm in a lane to the right of a driver in his lane and I turn left and hit the car it's my fault. Obviously. This makes no sense. It suggests cycle lanes should be ignored.


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## growingvegetables (31 Mar 2016)

Moderators, please! This is also being discussed here.


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## Origamist (1 Apr 2016)

simonsch said:


> View attachment 123388



Whilst it is uncorroborated and hardly compelling evidence, the girlfriend of Reidar 'Danny' Farr who was killed by a HGV driven by a Vincent Doyle in 1999 stated here: http://www.dccourier.com/messengers/lbma_list_2004/msg00107.html that Vincent Doyle had only had a HGV licence for 4 months at the time of the fatality. This does not tally with the recent accounts in the papers where it is said stated that the Vincent Doyle who killed Janina Gelau in 2014 had held a HGV licence for 25 years.

If they are one in the same, I cannot imagine why, in the 2016 trial, it would be mentioned that he had an "unblemished driving record".


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## steveindenmark (1 Apr 2016)

I think we can maybe discount the girlfriends 'evidence'. She does not appear to know much about anything.


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## simonsch (1 Apr 2016)

Also, Vince seems to have gone back and forth between the UK and Ireland a bit, which may affect things (I'm not sure how HGV licensing works).


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## benborp (1 Apr 2016)

@Origamist there are different reports as to how long Doyle held a licence.

The reporting itself is imprecise and the reported testimony i.e. "Doyle said he had held a spotless driving licence for 20 years and had begun riding a tractor from the age of 14." could be very specifically worded to give a favourable impression.

It would be unusual but not impossible for a driver of Doyle's age to obtain an HGV licence prior to what was then the minimum age of 21.


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## benborp (1 Apr 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> I think we can maybe discount the girlfriends 'evidence'. She does not appear to know much about anything.



Harsh. Seeing as her post is in most parts a request for clarity of information after losing her boyfriend.


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## Origamist (1 Apr 2016)

benborp said:


> @Origamist there are different reports as to how long Doyle held a licence.
> 
> The reporting itself is imprecise and the reported testimony i.e. "Doyle said he had held a spotless driving licence for 20 years and had begun riding a tractor from the age of 14." could be very specifically worded to give a favourable impression.
> 
> It would be unusual but not impossible for a driver of Doyle's age to obtain an HGV licence prior to what was then the minimum age of 21.



As ever, the reporting varies, and I take your point that the defence will put a spin on his experience (just as the report from the partner of "Danny" Farr could be inaccurate), but the lack of conscience and chutzpah to declare in court that he had an "unblemished driving record" if he had previously been involved and acquitted in similar circumstances is surprising to say the least (but that may be due to my naivete of the court process).


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## Origamist (1 Apr 2016)

benborp said:


> Harsh. Seeing as her post is in most parts a request for clarity of information after losing her boyfriend.



It's best not to engage with Steve on threads of this nature.

If the Mods feel the last page or so should be merged with the thread in General Cycling, I would have no objection as I can see this is not the most suitable thread to continue this discussion/speculation.


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## jefmcg (1 Apr 2016)

There doesn't seem to be any actual contradiction between the Guardian articles and the girl friend's letter. He has a "clean licence", which means no convictions not no collisions. And "driving for 20 years" which means since he got his car licence, not necessarily HGV


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## benborp (1 Apr 2016)

I think "unblemished driving record" is pretty similar to "previous good character".


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## Origamist (1 Apr 2016)

jefmcg said:


> There doesn't seem to be any actual contradiction between the Guardian articles and the girl friend's letter. He has a "clean licence", which means no convictions not no collisions. And "driving for 20 years" which means since he got his car licence, not necessarily HGV



That's true - the discrepancy is with other news reports that state he held a HGV licence for 25 years. This suggests the two cannot be the same (if we accept the remarks of the girlfriend of the late "Danny" Farr and the recent press reports).


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## Origamist (2 Apr 2016)

On another forum someone purporting to be "Danny" Farr's girlfriend at the time of his death states she is 95% certain it is the same Vincent Doyle:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cyclist-killed-finding-an-old-court-judgement

Whether _Plymouthrock _is genuine or trolling, I don't know.


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## classic33 (2 Apr 2016)

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1477580&i=0

118 pages on it, 117 & 118 going over the same as here.


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