# Improving the Tour



## Dogtrousers (18 Jul 2018)

Every year at about this time we notice, with some surprise, that the racing in the Tour isn't as exciting as we'd like. Something Must Be Done we say.

This isn't new. Back in the day Henri Desgrange would make wholesale changes almost every year: Purely points based to cumulative time. Trade teams to national teams. Bans on various kinds of equipment. And so on.

So let's have your suggestions for fixing the broken Tour. Please don't think too hard about possible unfortunate consequences of your proposed changes. Be bold.


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## Gary E (18 Jul 2018)

On-bike weaponry?


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## Gary E (18 Jul 2018)

Jousting lances would be a hoot


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## Mugshot (18 Jul 2018)

No race radios and 6 in a team. All riders have to change bikes at exactly the halfway point of each stage, even if it's halfway up a mountain,, BUT one of the teams has had a bike removed and they don't know which one it is until they reach the bike swap.


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## Mugshot (18 Jul 2018)

Gary E said:


> On-bike weaponry?


Like Mario Kart? That'd be good actually, they could throw their bottles and half eaten sandwiches at one another.


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## Rooster1 (18 Jul 2018)

Give the ladies their version and watch that instead. A full version, not just one stage.


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## KneesUp (18 Jul 2018)

Teams of 10 but at least 5 women per team. Simultaneously makes female tour possible without much difficulty, makes dominance of one team less likely and makes it more inclusive.


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## ozboz (18 Jul 2018)

I’ve not been following the tours for very long so cannot really offer any suggestions that may be feasible, 
But... it has been said ..... that there is always room for improvement ,
Also ........... if it’s not broke, don’t fix it ,

It’s not boring to me : most likely because I’m a newbie follower , 
Stages 10 & 11 were good viewing I thought , I’ll miss it today due to work related stuff , but I’ll deffo watch the highlights ,


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## Crackle (18 Jul 2018)

Let's see what this year's shorter stage brings. I think it's those kind of tweaks that need making.........

Alternatively, as it's France, during the race the riders have to negotiate a number of obstacles, roads blocked by farmers up in arms over fruit imports from Spain, tyres burning in the road creating an obstacle course. At the end of the stage, no transport to the hotel due to everyone being on strike, no food when they get there as they're late.and the kitchen is closed, appeals met with a gallic shrug and a stale baguette....


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## Bazzer (18 Jul 2018)

Mixed sex teams of 6 and make each stage a variation of the team time trial. The first team rider over the line is allocated a time based upon the average of his/her teams first four riders over the line. Other team riders are awarded their individual times.


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## alicat (18 Jul 2018)

No support - they have to fix their own bikes.


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## alicat (18 Jul 2018)

And bring their own sarnies.


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## Milkfloat (18 Jul 2018)

No race radios and no power meters would liven it up considerably, I don't think much else would be needed.


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## raleighnut (18 Jul 2018)

A cyclocross stage.


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## Joffey (18 Jul 2018)

Motors - but not hidden! You could have a 'fan-boost' like they had on Formula E - you all vote on Twitter and the winner gets 400 watts for 1 minute on the final climb or something.

You could also use these motors like an F1 style DRS system with these motors, instead of drafting you could press a little button and fly right by with a 200 watt 30 second boost.

But seriously:

Maybe cut down on a first week of long flat stages. Stage 1 being the 65km Stage 17 route, really brutalise the start leaving gaps to encourage better riders to be let go in breaks. I'd also neutralise stages with regards to GC timings at 10km so the GC teams can keep out of the way of sprints.


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## Jody (18 Jul 2018)

Make them ride a BSO MTB from Tesco.


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## helston90 (18 Jul 2018)

MTB course half way through a stage, so 50 mile ride to spread things out, triathlon style transition zone to swap bikes, MTB climb up and then back down to transition zone then back on the road bike.


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## Joffey (18 Jul 2018)

Gary E said:


> Jousting lances would be a hoot



We don't want Lance back!


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## KneesUp (18 Jul 2018)

helston90 said:


> MTB course half way through a stage, so 50 mile ride to spread things out, triathlon style transition zone to swap bikes, MTB climb up and then back down to transition zone then back on the road bike.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2018)

Crackle said:


> Let's see what this year's shorter stage brings. I think it's those kind of tweaks that need making.........



Shorter stages would be my suggestion. One of the reasons the women's races are often more exciting is because they are usually a lot shorter.

However...



> Alternatively, as it's France, during the race the riders have to negotiate a number of obstacles, roads blocked by farmers up in arms over fruit imports from Spain, tyres burning in the road creating an obstacle course. At the end of the stage, no transport to the hotel due to everyone being on strike, no food when they get there as they're late.and the kitchen is closed, appeals met with a gallic shrug and a stale baguette....



I could get on board with this idea.


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## Racing roadkill (18 Jul 2018)

Unicycle TT stage.


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## winjim (18 Jul 2018)

Point to point but they only learn the locations of the controls on the day of the race so they have to do their own navigation.

Coupled with @alicat 's idea of no team support and bringing their own sarnies.

Hardcore Audax, basically.


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## winjim (18 Jul 2018)

Oh yeah, insane stunt bonus.


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## burntoutbanger (18 Jul 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> No race radios and no power meters would liven it up considerably, I don't think much else would be needed.



Very much this but I'd have no speedometers, no heath rate monitors, nothing. 

Riders would have to ride on feel and I miss the old chalk boards with the time gaps on the back of the motorbikes.


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## ianrauk (18 Jul 2018)

burntoutbanger said:


> I miss the old chalk boards with the time gaps on the back of the motorbikes.



The few highlights programmes I have seen of the Tour this year, they still have those.


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## Milkfloat (18 Jul 2018)

ianrauk said:


> The few highlights programmes I have seen of the Tour this year, they still have those.



Is it still 'Time Gap Claire'?


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## burntoutbanger (18 Jul 2018)

ianrauk said:


> The few highlights programmes I have seen of the Tour this year, they still have those.



Haven't noticed the chalk boards, lovely to hear they're still there, I shall pay more attention. ☺


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## oldfatfool (18 Jul 2018)

Open up to independent entries, no team support allowed on the course only generic support available to all entries. Scrap cumlative times for gc no more bonus points or seconds for gc, purely based on position over the finishing line each and every day. No allowing of riders to loan wheels and bikes to other riders.


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## lane (18 Jul 2018)

Not my idea I have seen this suggested previously - that real time power and HR data is available to the broadcasters so a graphic with the data could be shown alongside the picture of a rider attacking for instance. A bit like in F1 where they show speed and breaking of the cars. I have no idea how technically feasible this is.

If you went to a pure points based system it would need consideration of the points awarded - in F1 the champion has in the past not won many races but now there are more points on offer for win which makes winning more important, as opposed to coming second lots of times.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2018)

lane said:


> Not my idea I have seen this suggested previously - that real time power and HR data is available to the broadcasters so a graphic with the data could be shown alongside the picture of a rider attacking for instance. A bit like in F1 where they show speed and breaking of the cars. I have no idea how technically feasible this is.



Not only is it technically feasible, they're already doing it - a fairly recent innovation, admittedly.

You can also track individual riders online here:
http://livetracking.letour.fr/#/stageprofile


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## ozboz (18 Jul 2018)

Joffey said:


> We don't want Lance back!



My friend said he couldn’t understand what the problem was with ol’Lance..........
Because when he was on drugs .... he couldn’t even find his bike let alone win a TdF !!


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## pawl (18 Jul 2018)

Give the women the tour. Men to ride the LeCourse


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> You can also track individual riders online here:
> http://livetracking.letour.fr/#/stageprofile



If you follow the race via the live tracker while also watching it on telly, it highlights whichever camera view is currently on screen, so you can easily identify who is in the group.

Maybe the commentators should try using this feature rather than doing their usual guessing and getting it wrong. That would certainly improve the experience of listening to their witterings.


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## lane (18 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> Not only is it technically feasible, they're already doing it - a fairly recent innovation, admittedly.
> 
> You can also track individual riders online here:
> http://livetracking.letour.fr/#/stageprofile



Thanks for that very interesting. I wonder why it's not made more of in the TV coverage.


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## The Crofted Crest (18 Jul 2018)

Just make it more French:

Every bike to have a string of onions dangling from the handlebars.
Every rider to wear the same stripy jumper and beret.
Moussettes to contain a bottle of cheap plonk, two andouillettes and a softpack of Gauloises.
Racing to be suspended at noon for three and a half hours and bonus points for the winner of the pétanque game.
[ / lazy national stereotyping]


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## Dayvo (18 Jul 2018)

Another one for a ban on radio communication.

Also they should have a night stage.

Maybe having _two_ stages in the same day like they did yesteryear,

Throw in a 600 km audax for good measure.

And they should be made to pick up all discarded litter (bottles, wrappers, bidons etc.) to set a good example).


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## Aravis (18 Jul 2018)

A split stage on the final day (TT + criterium). Maybe the crit can run into the evening so that it finishes under the lights.

Once in a while, have a route that resembles the original _Grand Boucle_, instead of the Tour de part de France we get these days.

Impose a minimum tyre weight, so that there's no reason not to use puncture protection. Anyone having a puncture surrenders the offending wheel to be checked. If the tyre's under weight, probably a time penalty.

Hold the Tour in the middle of winter. I can't over-emphasise how stupid an idea I think that is, but I'd still like to see it.


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## Beebo (18 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Best suggestion yet.



The mountain stages would be interesting under 6 feet of snow.


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## smutchin (18 Jul 2018)

Beebo said:


> The mountain stages would be interesting under 6 feet of snow.



They could do it on fat bikes.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jul 2018)

A year of eating the same diet as me and doing the same amount of exercise should do the trick; might take a bit longer.


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## raleighnut (18 Jul 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> A year of eating the same diet as me and doing the same amount of exercise should do the trick; might take a bit longer.


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## brommers (20 Jul 2018)

Replace the current style of TTT stage with a relay style TTT. Teams would place their riders according to the nature of the terrain.


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## Bollo (20 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> They could do it on fat bikes.


A stage on tandems. It’d be awesome!!!!!


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## Beebo (21 Jul 2018)

Bollo said:


> A stage on tandems. It’d be awesome!!!!!


You could put the sprinters with the climbers to ensure they made it over the high mountain stages.


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## Buddfox (23 Jul 2018)

Interesting suggestion from Dr Hutch: “What would happen if we had a Grand Tour with no teams? Just individuals, each with £10,000 in cash in a jersey pocket with which to forge alliances as they went.”


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## FishFright (23 Jul 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> A year of eating the same diet as me and doing the same amount of exercise should do the trick; might take a bit longer.



Fray Bentos as title sponsor !


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## bruce1530 (23 Jul 2018)

You could allow them to take performance-enhancing drugs. Oh, wait....


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## bruce1530 (23 Jul 2018)

At the start, all bikes are supplied in kit form. You can use as many tools as you want to assemble them, but you’ve then got to carry all of those tools with you all day.


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## bruce1530 (23 Jul 2018)

When they near the Swiss border, there should be a water section, where all of the participants must cross Lake Geneva on a Pedalo.


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## mjr (27 Jul 2018)

Boringly, change the red numbers from yesterday's combativity winner to the leader in the baroudeur classification (kms in breaks). Would that lead to more De Gendt style serial escapologists?


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## SpokeyDokey (29 Jul 2018)

Make the competition GC only - drop the sideshows.

For every stage set a challenging cut off time - anyone finishing outside of it is out. This will get rid of the absurdity of the cycle & chat transitional stages as well as the final day anti-climax. 

Get rid of the TT's - it should simply be a race from start to finish where everybody is competing at the same time and under the same conditions.


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## nickyboy (29 Jul 2018)

Alcohol needs to be involved

A shot every 10km, another shot at top of each categorised climb. Anyone throws up and they're ejected from the race. 

Pretty soon the race will only involve riders with my physique. These 55kg skinny climbers have no chance

Actually, serious suggestion: budget caps. It isn't good for long term development of the sport to have one team dominating. Discourages other sponsors and if Sky then pulled out, where would probably cycling be?


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## StuAff (29 Jul 2018)

Sky is undoubtedly the richest team, certainly isn't helpful to have one team so powerful, but how much richer than the others is unclear because a lot of teams keep their accounts private. Agreed, a budget cap (properly enforced) would be a good idea though.


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## Beebo (29 Jul 2018)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-team-largest-budget-262275

There are some other teams with big budgets.
Sky aren’t head and shoulders above everyone else.

*Tour de France team budgets (estimated)*
Team Sky – €35m
Katusha – €32m
BMC – €28m
Tinkoff – €25m
Astana – €20m
Etixx-Quick Step – €18m
Movistar – €15m
Lotto-Soudal – €14m
LottoNL-Jumbo – €14m
Dimension Data – €13.5m
Orica-BikeExchange – €13m
Giant-Alpecin – €12.5m
Trek-Segafredo – €12m
Ag2r La Mondiale – €12m
Cofidis – €11m
IAM Cycling – €10.5m
FDJ – €10m
Cannondale – €10m
Lampre-Merida – €7m
Direct Energie – €6m
Bora-Argon 18 – €4.5m
Fortuneo-Vital Concept – €3.5m
Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...eam-largest-budget-262275#LCUlzm6w1AHv7tD3.99

Edit. Sagan’s wages must be the whole of Boras budget. So I call BS.


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## smutchin (30 Jul 2018)

Beebo said:


> Sagan’s wages must be the whole of Boras budget. So I call BS.



I haven’t looked at it myself but something tells me you might want to check the date on the article you got that info from.


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## brommers (30 Jul 2018)

Beebo said:


> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-team-largest-budget-262275
> 
> There are some other teams with big budgets.
> Sky aren’t head and shoulders above everyone else.
> ...


Half of these teams either don't exist anymore or have different sponsors


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## ozboz (30 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> I haven’t looked at it myself but something tells me you might want to check the date on the article you got that info from.



I noticed that , Fotuneo had a different partner this time , 
And as a matter of interest had BH bikes instead of Look ,


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## Bollo (31 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> At the risk of being serious I agree with the budget cap idea with a big caveat: I know nothing about how pro cycling finance works and it may actually be a crap idea for all I know. Still, in the spirit of this thread, who cares?


INRNG usually has a piece or two on the finances of the various teams that are sometimes worth wading through. One of the things I remember from an article of theirs is that it's not always a level playing field in terms of reporting. For example Sky are a registered UK company so are required to submit reasonably detailed public accounts that include the salary bill, while teams like Astana, Katusha and Bahrain Merida not so much.

The Gruan has this article that delivers less than it promises, but it seems that the salary cap has supporters in France. I'm sure those opinions are completely evidence-based and nowt to do with being Gallic bitters. They also point a finger at ASO for being more interested in the money than the sport.
Pas de merde, Cherloque!

Prudhomme mutters something about power meters.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ench-media-call-salary-cap-team-sky-dominance


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> So let's have your suggestions for fixing the broken Tour. Please don't think too hard about possible unfortunate consequences of your proposed changes. Be bold.



Move it to Italy


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## rich p (31 Jul 2018)

Lapartient has been spouting bollox again I see.
He's an embarrassment and SDB calling him a provincial mayor is about right.


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## rich p (31 Jul 2018)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-keen-to-curb-team-skys-tour-de-france-dominance/

Whose side is he on?
ASO, provincial France, any others?
Instead of trying to get more money into cycling he seems to be having a dig at the team that reputedly has a budget of £40m pa. Brighton &HA have just spent more than half that on a player I've never even heard of ffs.


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## Bollo (31 Jul 2018)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-keen-to-curb-team-skys-tour-de-france-dominance/
> 
> Whose side is he on?
> ASO, provincial France, any others?
> Instead of trying to get more money into cycling he seems to be having a dig at the team that reputedly has a budget of £40m pa. Brighton &HA have just spent more than half that on a player I've never even heard of ffs.


I’m no Sky fanboy, but Lappartient is a cock. The advantage from power meters within a race are IMO marginal (TM Brailsfordcorp) and its a level playing field anyway. Banning race radio? Look how that’s turned out in the past.

Salary caps can be gamed and as we know, if a rule can be gamed them Team Evil will find a way to game it. “Fancy a game of cards Gee? Oh my your luck is in!” (TM mid 80s rugby union).

If Lappartient wants to level the field he’s got two choices, go back to national teams or go full ‘merka with a draft system and standardised equipment. Not going to happen and probably not even legal outside Trumplandia.


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## rich p (31 Jul 2018)

And I've said before that the accusation that Sky buy all the best climbers/riders is a nonsense too. 
Poels, Bernal too, Moscon, Castroviejo were hardly top of the tree. Kwiat maybe but his star was on the wane when they plucked him.
Knees, Kiri etc were all average at best and a lot of the rest were BC produce like Thomas, Rowe, Stannard.
p.s. I'm not a Sky fanboi either!


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## Crackle (31 Jul 2018)

Lappertient seems to be trapped in a logic circle of his own making. Smaller teams for safety, less teams in the top tier but more teams in the race, presumably safety is OK with more smaller teams than with less bigger teams. A budget cap for teams who rely on sponsorship only to pay riders because the ASO and UCI hold all the rights and the proceeds they make from the races and don't share it out to the teams who make it for them. It's real back to the future stuff and Brailsfords comments about ASO needing to decide if they want an international or local event is beginning to look on the money.


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## Crackle (31 Jul 2018)

Actually the Inrng did an excellent piece on the finances of ASO which point to the fact that the Tour is their most profitable business, probably. In which case you could see how they would be concerned with falling audiences and with the most racing days on the World Tour calendar, how they're in a position to put pressure on mallible French UCI president

http://inrng.com/2017/11/amaury-sport-accounts-finances/


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Jul 2018)

The general classification is based on their average power output. So no drafting or hiding in the peloton as that will ruin the effort they are putting in.


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## rich p (31 Jul 2018)

There's an obvious reason why the last two TDFs have been less gripping than the equivalent Giros and Vueltas and it's because of the parcours. Going back to a sprint heavy first week, and then eliminating the riders that can animate the transition/rest/breakaway stages is shooting oneself in the pied.


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## Bollo (31 Jul 2018)

rich p said:


> There's an obvious reason why the last two TDFs have been less gripping than the equivalent Giros and Vueltas and it's because of the parcours. Going back to a sprint heavy first week, and then eliminating the riders that can animate the transition/rest/breakaway stages is shooting oneself in the pied.


A stage incorporating Cycle Polo.
"Froome. To Bernal. Back to Froome. Geraaaaiiiiiiiint!!!!!!!"


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## rich p (31 Jul 2018)

Bollo said:


> A stage incorporating Cycle Polo.
> "Froome. To Bernal. Back to Froome. Geraaaaiiiiiiiint!!!!!!!"


I actually watched a game of cycle polo in a local park.
It was shite. 
One of the teams had better bikes and errrm sticks. The playing field needed levelling even though it was a pair of tennis courts


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## Seevio (1 Aug 2018)

In line with my long held belief that there are no sports that couldn't be improved by the addition of a bear, add bears. Obviously one wouldn't be enough as the tour does after all travel quite fast but released at random intervals would be rather effective.

It would also remove the problem of spectators crowding the riders on the mountain stages as only the less Darwinian minded fans will be at the sides of the roads.


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## lazyfatgit (1 Aug 2018)

smutchin said:


> If you follow the race via the live tracker while also watching it on telly, it highlights whichever camera view is currently on screen, so you can easily identify who is in the group.
> 
> Maybe the commentators should try using this feature rather than doing their usual guessing and getting it wrong. That would certainly improve the experience of listening to their witterings.



I watched some stages live and all of the highlights shows on SBS. I thought Matt Keenan and Robbie McEwan did a great job.

Less twittering than Phil and Gary in years past.


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## Beebo (1 Aug 2018)

if the French are so angry and winning is so easy why don’t they ensure that FDJ or another team has a €40m budget. 
It isn’t that much money in this day and age. 
There must be some company in France willing to stump up the cash.


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## smutchin (1 Aug 2018)

smutchin said:


> Shorter stages would be my suggestion.



Alternatively, go back to the days of ultra-mega-long stages - 400km through the Pyrenees, that kind of thing - and ban all teams and riders working together, and they have to be self-supported (fix their own punctures etc) ,so it's entirely a solo endeavour. It would be rubbish for TV but you could fit riders with spot trackers and follow their live progress on a map.

Essentially, turn the TdF into the TCR.

(Not a serious suggestion. I actually think this would be a rubbish idea, though I know some people who would genuinely be in favour of it.)


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## raleighnut (1 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Have a road circuit that is lapped repeatedly. Not too long, and preferably including a big climb, and maybe some cobbles or other stuff (or a cobbled climb! yay). You could now transfer track events to the road. Madison, elimination, points, Keirin ...


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...tle-Classic-&usg=AOvVaw3MIfEdZaaxXLepOUNSTt0Z


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## raleighnut (1 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Do they have Dernys going up cobbled hills? If not, it's rubbish.


There's a right hand (90%) bend with a drain cover right on the apex/racing line, that's pretty exciting (it's where I normally watch from)


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## brommers (1 Aug 2018)

Beebo said:


> if the French are so angry and winning is so easy why don’t they ensure that FDJ or another team has a €40m budget.
> It isn’t that much money in this day and age.
> There must be some company in France willing to stump up the cash.


I agree. Why is there no sponsor in France? Isn't anyone in France bothered about winning their own race, the biggest one in the world?


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## Beebo (1 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> I agree. Why is there no sponsor in France? Isn't anyone in France bothered about winning their own race, the biggest one in the world?


PSG spent €222million on Neymar. So there is money around in France.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2018)

I would make all grand tours less grand and have them last 2 weeks, and increase the number from 3 to 5.


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## Adam4868 (1 Aug 2018)

I'd leave it as it is....sky dominate grand tours,so what.Up your game to the rest of the teams.Quick step do some dominating themselves in classics ect,but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
Or plan b let Sky sign me up and I'll stop them winning !


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## brommers (1 Aug 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> I would make all grand tours less grand and have them last 2 weeks, and increase the number from 3 to 5.


We could have one over here. We have the infrastructure and would definitely get the crowds


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## swansonj (1 Aug 2018)

A relay race. A stage divided into 8 sections, each rider in the team is designated and timed for one section, whole team get same aggregate time. Each section would thus have only 20 active riders. Breakaways harder to chace down, weaker riders more exposed, and plenty of tactical options (strongest rider first or last?) especially if hills are involved.


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## alicat (1 Aug 2018)

> Can you imagine the uproar of decent people being trapped in their homes and unable to visit their sick mothers due to road closures.



Er, have the goalposts moved?



> So let's have your suggestions for fixing the broken Tour. *Please don't think too hard about possible unfortunate consequences of your proposed changes.* Be bold.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Can you imagine the uproar of decent people being trapped in their homes and unable to visit their sick mothers due to road closures.


Or being able to attend church via the route they always use...


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## brommers (1 Aug 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> Or being able to attend church via the route they always use...


Who goes to church these days?


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## brommers (1 Aug 2018)

swansonj said:


> A relay race. A stage divided into 8 sections, each rider in the team is designated and timed for one section, whole team get same aggregate time. Each section would thus have only 20 active riders. Breakaways harder to chace down, weaker riders more exposed, and plenty of tactical options (strongest rider first or last?) especially if hills are involved.


If you go back a few pages I've already suggested something similar to this @swansonj


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## swansonj (1 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> If you go back a few pages I've already suggested something similar to this @swansonj


Whoops - so you did - sorry, I thought i’d followed the whole thread but clearly not.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> Who goes to church these days?


It's amazing how many people take offence at having their day/time/route of worship interfered with due to cycling


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## smutchin (2 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> Who goes to church these days?



People who suddenly discover a love of God when a new sportive lands in their back yard... It's a miracle, I tell you!


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## swansonj (2 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> Who goes to church these days?


The Prudential Ride London passes through Leatherhead and the route is closed to traffic all day. There were people in Leatherhead parish church on Sunday who normally go to Fetcham but couldn’t get there and, i’m sure, vice versa.


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## perplexed (2 Aug 2018)

Give all the riders a pointy stick.

On any given stage they are permitted to get them out and jab at nobbish spectators for say, three minutes.

I'm not sure it'd do much for the racing as such, but it would be interesting to see such a fan interaction.

EDIT: Thinking on, it'd work a bit like a joker card. Some riders may elect to not use the pointy stick, and thus gain a potential 3 minutes in their rivals if you make the rule that pointy stick wielders have to be stationary.


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## rich p (2 Aug 2018)

swansonj said:


> The Prudential Ride London passes through Leatherhead and the route is closed to traffic all day. There were people in Leatherhead parish church on Sunday who normally go to Fetcham but couldn’t get there and, i’m sure, vice versa.


I normally go to Coolham or Grabham and occasionally, Holdham but hey ho.


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## Beebo (2 Aug 2018)

rich p said:


> I normally go to Coolham or Grabham and occasionally, Holdham but hey ho.


Felpham is more your kinda place.


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## rich p (2 Aug 2018)

Beebo said:


> Felpham is more your kinda place.


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## Dayvo (2 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> Who goes to church these days?



Exactly: they can't get there cos there's too many bike riders reclaiming the streets.


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## Captainwull (2 Aug 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> Give the ladies their version and watch that instead. A full version, not just one stage.


Did you know that 6 or 7 French women did the whole tour? They started the day before the men and did each stage in its entirety finishing in Paris on the Saturday. A friend of mine Anna Barrero took part. They were trying to promote women's cycling in France and trying to make the ASC consider running a women's TDF next year. I don't think it was publicised in the media over here but with all the media and celebrity focus on "empowering" women just now it would have made a great advert for the cause.


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## Crackle (2 Aug 2018)

Captainwull said:


> Did you know that 6 or 7 French women did the whole tour? They started the day before the men and did each stage in its entirety finishing in Paris on the Saturday. A friend of mine Anna Barrero took part. They were trying to promote women's cycling in France and trying to make the ASC consider running a women's TDF next year. I don't think it was publicised in the media over here but with all the media and celebrity focus on "empowering" women just now it would have made a great advert for the cause.


It was. I think it was advertised in between ITV4 coverage plus it made the cycling press and the BBC


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## Captainwull (2 Aug 2018)

Crackle said:


> It was. I think it was advertised in between ITV4 coverage plus it made the cycling press and the BBC


Really glad to hear that, I was over there myself so never heard. Anna never mentioned being interviewed by the British press.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Aug 2018)

Crackle said:


> It was. I think it was advertised in between ITV4 coverage plus it made the cycling press and the BBC


One of the participants was interviewed during one of the stages, I think Dani Rowe was also doing a stint as co-commentator/pundit and the impression I got was that she thought the interviewee was not very realistic in her ideas.


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## Crackle (2 Aug 2018)

It might have been the Telegraph I saw it actually

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/inspiring-women/womens-tour-de-france/


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## Captainwull (2 Aug 2018)

Crackle said:


> It might have been the Telegraph I saw it actually
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/inspiring-women/womens-tour-de-france/



Thanks very much for the link, I was unaware it made the news here.


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## Salad Dodger (2 Aug 2018)

1) Give all riders a body worn transponder, of the kind used in motor racing to trigger lap times.
2) The race result to be determined by the total time which each rider takes to complete all the stages. No bonus seconds awarded, no giving a whole bunch of riders the same finish time when the one at the front of the group clearly finished several seconds before the one at the back of the group.

You can still have a points based king of the mountain and a points based sprint competition, but the yellow jersey to go to the rider who completes all the race stages in the lowest aggregate time, with no "adjustments" i.e. time bonuses.


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## freddietanguapo (3 Aug 2018)

I liked the stage with the cobbles the best. That was an epic race.


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## Adam4868 (3 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've got an idea. Have a short, mountainous stage. Here's the clever bit: Start the riders in a grid formation. Yellow jersey at the front, then the others behind. This will guarantee something very different and exciting. Trust me on this. It's a winner.


Grid I agree was a waste of time,I actually thought they were going in timed intervals ! But the short stage I thought was good,especially how hard it was.


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## ozboz (3 Aug 2018)

brommers said:


> I agree. Why is there no sponsor in France? Isn't anyone in France bothered about winning their own race, the biggest one in the world?



I thought Direct Energie was French ,


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## Bollo (7 Aug 2018)

I’ve just checked in to INRNG and they’ve done a bit about power meters and debunked some of the myths. It’s worth a read. Most interesting is that Tom Dumoulin has said that he barely looks at the numbers during a stage which, given the type of rider he is, says a lot. If ASO/UCI banned live power meter display during stages, but allowed data collection and post ride analysis then I’d wage a couple of Carneys that most teams would be cool with it.

http://inrng.com/2018/08/on-banning-powermeters/#more-34255

I’ve had a power meter for about 7 years but I don’t think I’ve ever even glanced during a crit (probable past tense unless Nivea anti-aging creme works on knees) and rarely use it for TTs, where I usually have my heart rate displayed full size and centre.

I like to poke around the numbers and a power meter has been useful for training, especially with a dataset going back so long. It’s telling me I’m getting old. Thanks.


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## User269 (7 Aug 2018)

Just copy whatever it is the Giro & La Vuelta do.........both have been more interesting than Le Tour for some years now. Then, we just need ITV4 to at least broadcast highlights. They missed an historic and spectacular Giro this year, but are showing La Vuelta apparently.

Other ways to improve Le Tour; stop the producer/camera operators dwelling endlessly on fullscreen shots of the ear, feet, cassette, number etc. of a meaningless breakaway rider, or indeed any shots showing any rider/s with no context of the road, scenery, other riders etc. Also upper body weight training for the camera operators so they don't have to keep pointing the camera down all the time.....................FFS pan out, point up, lets see what's going on and see the beauty of a group of racing cyclists in the context of their surroundings.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

User269 said:


> Just copy whatever it is the Giro & La Vuelta do.........both have been more interesting than Le Tour for some years now. Then, we just need ITV4 to at least broadcast highlights. They missed an historic and spectacular Giro this year, but are showing La Vuelta apparently.


Last I read, a few years back, the price for the Giro highlights was almost what they pay for live & highlights of the Tour, Dauphiné and associated one-day races. Not even silver-tongued Gary can talk ITV into that.

Besides, doesn't Quest reach about as many households as ITV4?


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## User269 (16 Aug 2018)

mjr said:


> Last I read, a few years back, the price for the Giro highlights was almost what they pay for live & highlights of the Tour, Dauphiné and associated one-day races. Not even silver-tongued Gary can talk ITV into that.
> 
> Besides, doesn't Quest reach about as many households as ITV4?



Yes I think you're right, but having Quest is little better than not having it all............the commentary on the Giro was amateurish, distracting, inaccurate, and irritating. At least we got to see the historic stage win by Froome.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

User269 said:


> Yes I think you're right, but having Quest is little better than not having it all............the commentary on the Giro was amateurish, distracting, inaccurate, and irritating. At least we got to see the historic stage win by Froome.


So really you don't just want Giro coverage on ITV4, you want the current Tour presenters doing it. I remember the year they had the Vuelta highlights with Matt Keenan's commentary: professional but distracting, inaccurate, and bordering on painful to listen to him struggle to find things to talk to himself about.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2018)

Pro Tour Punditry said:


> I would make all grand tours less grand and have them last 2 weeks, and increase the number from 3 to 5.


And I would have no rest days, and make it a rule that the final day had 2 stages: one of them either a short semi-classic style route or a mountain/steep hill finish, and the other a 10km TT.


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## chuffyshunter (3 Sep 2018)

All teams must uses 8 man rosalies, with the team principal on the kiddy seat at the front.


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