# first service - not very good news.



## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

i took the bike for it 1st service today and received not very good news. 

the problem that i posted about before where the rear tyre wouldn't pump up greater than 110psi due to rubbing on the frame behind the frame. when i contacted wiggle about this they said it was either the tyre not seated properly or the rim was slightly out of alignment. 

however the local bike shop has had a look and stated the wheel and tyre are fine but the problem is the frame it just doesn't have the clearance to allow the tyre to be pumped up that far, and stated to contact the seller which in this case is wiggle and get them to supply a bike that there is sufficient clearance for the rear wheel to be pumped up greater than 110psi and this could cause more problems in the long run. 

so it looks like verenti have created a bike that when you get the smallest size doesn't have the clearance required, sounds like a great manufacturing defect to me.

i have emailed wiggle to see what they say.


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## Globalti (19 Aug 2011)

Why on earth do you want to pump your tyres up to over 110? That's already hard enough for the majority of cyclists.

It's nothing new; I had a steel bike built in 1990 and the frame was so short that with a Roubaix tyre, which is deeper for more comfort, you couldn't even get the back wheel out of the frame without deflating the tyre. Even with a standard tyre it was a struggle.


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## gaz (19 Aug 2011)

What tyre are you using?
Tyres have different depths from the rim when you pump them up, if you choose one which is quite deep (which is often one which has puncture protection) then you will have trouble on a few frames.

There isn't really a need to pump the tyres above 110psi unless you are racing


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> What tyre are you using?



from the spec sheet on verenti website 

Wheelset Mavic Askium Black M10 ETRTO 622x13 Tyres Vittoria Diamante ProTech All Black ETRTO 622x23


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## gaz (19 Aug 2011)

They aren't that deep a tyre. Surprised they come with such a good tyre though, most companies put a basic tyre on.


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

local bike shop stated that it could cause further problems down the line, for example if the rim gets slighter knocked out of alignment then it will rub even at the current psi, another problem he stated is if a stone gets stuck in the tyre/wheel and then hits the frame it could seriously damage the frame.

should i be concerned?


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## topcat1 (19 Aug 2011)

send it back to wiggle and let them have a proper look at it


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## RecordAceFromNew (19 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> *from the spec sheet* on verenti website
> 
> Wheelset Mavic Askium Black M10 ETRTO 622x13 Tyres Vittoria Diamante ProTech All Black ETRTO 622x23



Just in case you weren't supplied what the manufacturer's spec says, have you checked the labels on the tyre walls to confirm you have what you said?

If the answer is yes, and especially if you have something like a Rhigos 03 with carbon frame and forks, I would agree with your mechanic's comment - you definitely do not want a standard tyre rubbing on the frame/fork - I have seen chunks of alloy frame rubbed off by tyres, that happening on carbon would be disastrous.

If for whatever reason you want to continue running it, you could try 20mm tyres. But frankly I would hate to have a frame that can't take a 23mm tyre at 110psi.

You might also want to tell Wiggle that those tyres have a design pressure of 115-145 psi!


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## Norm (19 Aug 2011)

Does a tyre at 110psi get larger than one at 90psi? 

Mine don't seem to change in size once I've got much past about 40psi. The only thing that changes is the flat spot which appears at the bottom when I throw my leg over.


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Just in case you weren't supplied what the manufacturer's spec says, have you checked the labels on the tyre walls to confirm you have what you said?
> 
> If the answer is yes, and especially if you have something like a Rhigos 03 with carbon frame and forks, I would agree with your mechanic's comment - you definitely do not want a standard tyre rubbing on the frame/fork - I have seen chunks of alloy frame rubbed off by tyres, that happening on carbon would be disastrous.
> 
> ...



yes they are the same tyre as stated but on the tyre wall it states a pressure range of 100 - 145 psi. 

and yes it is the rhigos 03 with carbon frame and forks


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## rualexander (19 Aug 2011)

Norm said:


> Does a tyre at 110psi get larger than one at 90psi?
> 
> Mine don't seem to change in size once I've got much past about 40psi. The only thing that changes is the flat spot which appears at the bottom when I throw my leg over.



I'd agree with this. 
Tyres are not balloons and are constrained by the carcass, once they have enough air in them to form their shape they won't expand significantly surely, otherwise you'd never get the pressure up.


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## Matty (19 Aug 2011)

What's a service?


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## Mad at urage (19 Aug 2011)

Matty said:


> What's a service?


Merriam-Webster defines it thusly:

*Definition of SERVICE*
1 _a_ *:* the occupation or function of serving <in active _service_>	_b_ *:* employment as a servant <entered his _service_> 
2 _a_ *:* the work performed by one that serves <good _service_> _b_ *:* help, use, benefit <glad to be of _service_> _c_ *:* contribution to the welfare of others _d_ *:* disposal for use <I'm entirely at your _service_> 
3 _a_ *:* a form followed in worship or in a religious ceremony <the burial _service_> _b_ *:* a meeting for worship —often used in plural <held evening _service__s_> 
4 *:* the act of serving: as _a_ *:* a helpful act <did him a _service_> _b_ *:* useful labor that does not produce a tangible commodity —usually used in plural <charge for professional _service__s_> _c_ *:* serve 
5 *:* a set of articles for a particular use <a silver tea _service_> 
6 _a_ *:* an administrative division (as of a government or business) <the consular _service_> _b_ *:* one of a nation's military forces (as the army or navy) 
7 _a_ *:* a facility supplying some public demand <telephone _service_> <bus _service_> _b_ *:* a facility providing maintenance and repair <television _service_> 
8 *:* the materials (as spun yarn, small lines, or canvas) used for serving a rope 
9 *:* the act of bringing a legal writ, process, or summons to notice as prescribed by law 
10 *:* the act of a male animal copulating with a female animal 
11 *:* a branch of a hospital medical staff devoted to a particular specialty <obstetrical _service_> 
*Origin of SERVICE*
Middle English, from Anglo-French _servise,_ from Latin _servitium_ condition of a slave, body of slaves, from _servus_ slaveFirst Known Use: 13th century

Edit: Formatting. Hope that helps


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

i have just noticed something very interesting. 

on the wiggle website verenti have recently released a rhigos 4 with the same frame but different wheelset and tyres, after checking the tyres on it they have max 120psi and recommended 110psi. 

makes me think that verenti knows about this problem and has chosen different wheels/tyre to compensate for the lack of clearance. 

after thinking about it might not send it back to wiggle and keep it as i am not going to need more than 110psi anyway, as gaz said you only need higher for racing which i am not going to be doing, however wiggle have yet to respond to my email.

i am a bit concerned about what the LBS said that could happen with the little amount of clearance, but there is lots of what if in life and if you listen to all of it you wouldn't do anything. 

also i have bike insurance which includes accidental damage should this happen in the future.

i would like to say this is such a great forum and the members are brilliant and very patient and helpful to us newbies, thank you for your advice again.


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## gaz (19 Aug 2011)

Write a review on wiggle about it. So other buyers can see the potential issue with the smaller frame sizes.


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> Write a review on wiggle about it. So other buyers can see the potential issue with the smaller frame sizes.



i will but once wiggle replies to my email as i am very interested in what they say about the matter.


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## amaferanga (19 Aug 2011)

If its a small frame then I guess you're not that heavy? I'm about 67kg and run most of my tyres at no more than 100psi even for racing. 

But as already pointed out - the profile of the tyre shouldn't be different whether they're at 90psi or 110 psi so something odd going on here.


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## Norm (19 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> i have just noticed something very interesting.


Did you also notice my interesting post / question? 

If the tyre is much different in size at 110psi than it is at 90psi, then I think you might have a faulty tyre. How much clearance is there at 90psi is it only rubs at 110psi?


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## dave r (19 Aug 2011)

amaferanga said:


> *something odd going on here.
> *



Agree with that, but looking at the bikes on Wiggle the clearances do look a bit tight, far tighter than my Kilmeston, which has room for mudguards. norm makes a good point, are you sure theres nothing wrong with the tyre?


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## sayek1 (19 Aug 2011)

Ive got a Rhigos 3 and Kilmeston - have my tyres up at 120 most of the time & if Diamante Pro's then I'll often go a bit higher. The frame on both bikes is a medium and I haven't noticed a problem at all - however, I will go and take a look tomorrow to see if I notice anything and how much clearance there is.

Wiggle have been great with me on the couple of problems I've had to date - see earlier posts. Broken SRAM shifter was replaced very quickly with the next model up and bill from LBS to do this paid without problem. Dodgy forks on my old Milook were replaced with the full Rhigos 3 bike at no cost.

Can you post any photos of the problem so we can take a look?

K


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## terry_gardener (19 Aug 2011)

have just taken photos with my phone so don't know if you will be able to tell.

clearance from center of the tyre to frame is about 2mm maybe slightly less. 

pressure about 105psi


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## gaz (20 Aug 2011)

oh my god that is super tight!!!


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## dave r (20 Aug 2011)

Bloody ell thats tight, are we sure the bridge was put in the right place when the frame was built?


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## BADGER.BRAD (20 Aug 2011)

That doesn't look right at all ! Send it back to Wiggle once they have contacted you, as someone else pointed out stones picked up on the tyre will wear the frame and Carbon frames tubes aren't the strongest thing once damaged, could cause a serious accident !


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## youngoldbloke (20 Aug 2011)

Perhaps the frame is intended to take 650 wheels. Some smallest size bikes are.


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## Alien8 (20 Aug 2011)

youngoldbloke said:


> Perhaps the frame is intended to take 650 wheels. Some smallest size bikes are.



That's what I thought - those picture look like madness.


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## Moss (20 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> have just taken photos with my phone so don't know if you will be able to tell.
> 
> clearance from center of the tyre to frame is about 2mm maybe slightly less.
> 
> pressure about 105psi



Send it back to Wiggle ASAP! That is a serious and dangerous amount of clearance; or should I say : Lack of clearance! get it back to them!


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## mickle (20 Aug 2011)

Definitely not enough clearance. I've seen high end track frames with more, and they aim for zero. A road bike that won't take a 25mm?

It's a production F up, send it back under warranty.


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## terry_gardener (20 Aug 2011)

i would like to say a hugh thank you to all you people. 

reading the replies and also had a quick trip to the cycle shop that setup the bike and they said to send it back due to lack of clearance. he compared it to there carbon road bikes and they had 5-10mm clearance. 

i mentioned that the bike should be able to take upto 25 mm tyres and he said no chance. he said that the only way you will get a proper clearance is by putting 18 or 20mm tyres on it. 

thing i don't get is when wiggle built it and checked it no one noticed or just wasn't bothered by it. 

i will be waiting wiggle response in the aim to send it back however i will need another wiggle box to do it. 

what will happen once returned. will i get a full refund, another rhigos 3 (which according to website are discontinued) or wiggle voucher for the purchase price. i would prefer a full refund so i can buy a bike from my LBS this time and hopefully not have any problems.


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## mickle (20 Aug 2011)

You are entitled to a full refund - whatever Wiggle try to tell you. Also, you are not obliged to post it back in a 'Wiggle box'. You did not buy the box, you bought the bike and cannot be expected to retain a large cardboard box on the off-chance that you might require it for warranty. Any bike box will do.

It can often be a challenge to separate a retailer's internal procedures from actual legal requirement. Often the staff themselves don't know where the line is drawn. 

You are entitled to a full refund. Accept nothing less, your bike is a dog.


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## ttcycle (20 Aug 2011)

I was shocked to see those photos, firstly I can't believe the company put all that componentry together without spotting the issue in smaller framed bikes and secondly, wiggle putting it together and completely ignoring the severe lack of clearance. A full refund is your statutory right and don't let the staff at Wiggle tell you otherwise.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Aug 2011)

To echo the others the bike is wrong. Either wrong wheels or frame design flaw. Find it hard to believe you are the only one with this problem unless they have only sold one bike!


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## rualexander (20 Aug 2011)

There is a review of what I think is this model on the road.cc site with a quite a few photos but it's hard to see the clearance at the rear, the clearance at the front looks adequate, with 700 x 23 tyres fitted.
Trying to extrapolate from the photos it does look like the clearance at the rear would probably be tight.
I take it that the photos posted by the OP earlier are of the clearance at the rear?


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## terry_gardener (20 Aug 2011)

rualexander said:


> I take it that the photos posted by the OP earlier are of the clearance at the rear?



correct clearance of the rear wheel


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## sayek1 (21 Aug 2011)

Wiggle will arrange pick up from you - you don't need a special box and def not a wiggle one. Old cardboard would do, but I simply asked a LBS for one of their old boxes.

Any issues I've had have always been taken care of and I am pretty sure they are not wanting to tarnish their brand name so you'll find they'll normally be willing to see you alright. I've not done badly at all. Last time I had to contact them I got their "live chat" service on the dot of 8.00 and by 9.00 their bike specialist was in touch and kept in touch pretty regularly.

Here's a tip - if you are going to send it back and want it replaced then keep the wheels - it makes it easier to package up and you might get a nice surprise!!!!


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## zexel (21 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> Wiggle will arrange pick up from you - you don't need a special box and def not a wiggle one. Old cardboard would do, but I simply asked a LBS for one of their old boxes.
> 
> Any issues I've had have always been taken care of and I am pretty sure they are not wanting to tarnish their brand name so you'll find they'll normally be willing to see you alright. I've not done badly at all. Last time I had to contact them I got their "live chat" service on the dot of 8.00 and by 9.00 their bike specialist was in touch and kept in touch pretty regularly.
> 
> Here's a tip - if you are going to send it back and want it replaced then keep the wheels - it makes it easier to package up and you might get a nice surprise!!!!



_*Two* _packs of Haribo?


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## terry_gardener (21 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> Wiggle will arrange pick up from you - you don't need a special box and def not a wiggle one. Old cardboard would do, but I simply asked a LBS for one of their old boxes.
> 
> Any issues I've had have always been taken care of and I am pretty sure they are not wanting to tarnish their brand name so you'll find they'll normally be willing to see you alright. I've not done badly at all. Last time I had to contact them I got their "live chat" service on the dot of 8.00 and by 9.00 their bike specialist was in touch and kept in touch pretty regularly.
> 
> Here's a tip - if you are going to send it back and want it replaced then keep the wheels - it makes it easier to package up and you might get a nice surprise!!!!



sadly i don't think the replacement is going to be any good as i believe it to be a design flow with the extra small frame size. 
shame really as i do like the bike and rides well, even though it is my first road bike and therefore can't compare it to anything else.


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## dellzeqq (21 Aug 2011)

Let me get this straight. You bought a bike by post. You didn't look at it before you paid for it. It doesn't work. In fact, if the photographs are an accurate representation of the way that the bike came to you from Wiggle, it's a piece of crap. At the risk of sounding harsh - that is how stuff happens. Next time, go to a bike shop.


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## terry_gardener (21 Aug 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Let me get this straight. You bought a bike by post. You didn't look at it before you paid for it. It doesn't work. In fact, if the photographs are an accurate representation of the way that the bike came to you from Wiggle, it's a piece of crap. At the risk of sounding harsh - that is how stuff happens. Next time, go to a bike shop.



thank you for editing your original post, as thousands of people by stuff online or by mail order. 

no matter if you buy online or in a shop you expect it to work properly, and yes next time i will go to a LBS to buy a bike.


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## apollo179 (21 Aug 2011)

Decide how you want this solved and demand that from wiggle.
Sounds like you prefer a refund - very wise.
Good luck sorting it out.


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## rodgy-dodge (21 Aug 2011)

Here have a read through this 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...erstanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/

It may all depend on the time scale you've owned the bike


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## dellzeqq (21 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> thank you for editing your original post, as thousands of people by stuff online or by mail order.
> 
> no matter if you buy online or in a shop you expect it to work properly, and yes next time i will go to a LBS to buy a bike.


of course you both expect it to work, and you've a right to expect it to work, but bikes just shriek 'inspect before you buy'. 

I'd go further - pedals, handlebars, bottom brackets, brakes, wheels - getting any of these by mail is just taking a chance.

good luck with the refund, although it does occur to me that, were Wiggle to offer you a 19mm tyre you might be at a disadvantage.


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## Jezston (21 Aug 2011)

That bike is defective by design. Anything less than a full refund, including any costs incurred by yourself, is unacceptable.

Tell Wiggle you are very unhappy that they would be willing to sell bikes with such a clear and dangerous design flaw, and that you have lost confidence in buying from them.


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## terry_gardener (21 Aug 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> were Wiggle to offer you a 19mm tyre you might be at a disadvantage.



why it doesn't solve the problem. having a road bike that doesn't take 23mm or 25mm tyres properly is wrong.


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## dellzeqq (21 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> why it doesn't solve the problem. having a road bike that doesn't take 23mm or 25mm tyres properly is wrong.


it might well be wrong (although my bike won't take 25s) but if Wiggle decide to press the point then I'm not sure how you can vanquish them


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (21 Aug 2011)

mickle said:


> You are entitled to a full refund - whatever Wiggle try to tell you. Also, you are not obliged to post it back in a 'Wiggle box'. You did not buy the box, you bought the bike and cannot be expected to retain a large cardboard box on the off-chance that you might require it for warranty. Any bike box will do.
> 
> It can often be a challenge to separate a retailer's internal procedures from actual legal requirement. Often the staff themselves don't know where the line is drawn.
> 
> You are entitled to a full refund. Accept nothing less, your bike is a dog.



+1


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## Twigman (22 Aug 2011)

I have the same bike (mine is a medium 54cm) and there seems to be plenty of clearance (around 4-5mm)


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## sayek1 (22 Aug 2011)

Just checked mine (54cm medium) and its the same - about 4mm of clearance. Not enough to get mudguards on but not a worry about touching the frame.

I disagree with Dellzeqq regards the internet. if there is enough feedback from users to rate a product and you have faith in the company why wouldn't you buy a bike that offers great value for money - especially if the company offers a 30day no quibble guarantee ie. if it is rubbish or you aren't happy send it back.

Why should I be forced to pay overinflated prices form my LBS? I agree the LBS is important to the local economy but I believe a bit of healthy competition didn't do anyone any harm?

Good luck with Wiggle - hope they sort it out to your satisfaction whatever the outcome you want. Th 30 day guarantee should cover you at least and ultimately your consumer rights cover you anyway.


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## terry_gardener (22 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> Good luck with Wiggle - hope they sort it out to your satisfaction whatever the outcome you want. Th 30 day guarantee should cover you at least and ultimately your consumer rights cover you anyway.



there 30 day test ride is not applicable because the bike was discounted by over 15%, this ruling counts on all there bikes. 

Still no heard from wiggle.


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## abo (22 Aug 2011)

It's at this point I'd suggest emailing their CEO, but I can't seem to find an email address for him (Humphrey Cobbold) via Google...

Which LBS did you use btw?


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## RecordAceFromNew (22 Aug 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> there 30 day test ride is not applicable because the bike was discounted by over 15%, this ruling counts on all there bikes.
> 
> Still no heard from wiggle.



Imho, a bike that comes with tyres that can not be pumped up to the recommended pressure is not merchantable quality. In fact a bike that leaves only 1mm of clearance when pumped up to within recommended pressure is still not merchantable quality - who is going to pay to fix the damage to the carbon frame when that inevitably happens?

I will be extremely surprised if Wiggle, which can only survive with a good online reputation, refuses to address the problem to the OP's satisfaction.

Besides, assuming it is under 2 years old in this instance I think Wiggle is legally bound to refund the OP due to the EU directive on warranty.


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## terry_gardener (22 Aug 2011)

abo said:


> Which LBS did you use btw?



the bike was bought from wiggle.co.uk and took it to GLG cycles for service and they said to send it back as the clearance isn't right. 

i also took it to skinnergate cycles and they basically said the same thing. 

i received the bike on 20 July 2011


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## sayek1 (22 Aug 2011)

sales@wiggle.co.uk 


Send a mail to the above address and put it FAO: Shane and also put it is for Shane in the title - customer service will then make sure he gets it. I think he deals with all bike related sales issues.


I'll have a phone number for them somewhere (this isn't published), but I got it last year when I was having trouble. Mail me and I'll try and find it, but I think its at work.


Have you used their on-line chat service during office hours? This worked well for me and got me going PDQ. I am sure they'll want to cover their reputation.


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## terry_gardener (22 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> sales@wiggle.co.uk
> 
> Send a mail to the above address and put it FAO: Shane and also put it is for Shane in the title - customer service will then make sure he gets it. I think he deals with all bike related sales issues.
> 
> ...



when i sent the email on friday i sent it to both bike@wiggle.co.uk and sales@wiggle.co.uk, got a reply back from the customer services stating "Thank you for your email. I will pass this on to my colleague how will be assisting you. We will contact you as soon as possible with further information. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.Please feel free to contact us if you require further assistance" this was Friday afternoon. 

when I have used the live chat today they said send an email to sales@wiggle.co.uk and mark it FAO Grant and it might be dealt with slightly quicker.

I will give them tomorrow lunchtime to reply and then send another email to them.

I have also asked on the wiggle facebook page, how long does it take for bike@wiggle.co.uk to reply to emails.


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## sayek1 (22 Aug 2011)

The number I had was;

David Jones & Marc Edwardson - Tel: 02392 314 818. I think these guys were something to do with Marketing, but the guy in sales/bikes is called; 




Shane Banks - shane.banks@wiggle.co.uk




Hope this helps.


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## mickle (23 Aug 2011)

Great team effort.


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## Banjo (23 Aug 2011)

mickle said:


> Great team effort.



+1 Shouldnt be neccessary though. I am following this with interest to see how Wiggle deal with a very genuine problem that is in no way attributable to the customer. 

I would be tempted to include a link to this thread in the email.Hopefully they will put the value of their good name higher than one bike .


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## terry_gardener (23 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> Shane Banks - shane.banks@wiggle.co.uk
> Hope this helps.



i have sent a follow up email to wiggle as still no reply. 

cc'ed shane into the email and got an out of office reply. 

i also sent it to sales and the bikes email addresses


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## terry_gardener (23 Aug 2011)

had a reply from wiggle which are sending me a box to send it back in.


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## terry_gardener (23 Aug 2011)

since the box should be arriving tomorrow so it can be packed up to send to wiggle. 

I pumped the tyres and this time they went to the max setting 145psi but the clearance is even less at under 1mm now. 2 weeks ago the tyre wouldn't go above about 110 psi so looks like either the tyre worn down sufficient enough to do this or it worn away the top layer of lacquer on the under side of the frame or mixture of both. 

there is still the lack of clearance problem for 25mm tyre and potential frame damage from solid objects, so still sending it back for refund.

update: now that i have left it for couple of hours at 145psi it is now catching the frame, sure this bike has a mind of its own.


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## terry_gardener (26 Aug 2011)

just to update.

the bike has just been collected by city-link. once it reaches wiggle the warranty technician will be in contact with regard to refund. I am guessing they need to verify the problem first.


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## YahudaMoon (26 Aug 2011)

sayek1 said:


> Just checked mine (54cm medium) and its the same - about 4mm of clearance. Not enough to get mudguards on but not a worry about touching the frame.
> 
> I disagree with Dellzeqq regards the internet. if there is enough feedback from users to rate a product and you have faith in the company why wouldn't you buy a bike that offers great value for money - especially if the company offers a 30day no quibble guarantee ie. if it is rubbish or you aren't happy send it back.
> 
> Why should I be forced to pay overinflated prices form my LBS? I agree the LBS is important to the local economy but I believe a bit of healthy competition didn't do anyone any harm?



Tottally disagree. You have to shop around. In my case I don't have to shop around.

My local bike shop will do a custom bike that will be just a cheap as Wiggle / Evans if not cheaper, and I can customise a bike with all the parts I want a get a excellant customer service.

If you can find a good LBS you will never bike online again.

OK some of his spare bits can be a little more expensive though if it's a full custom bike your after it's a no brainer.


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## al78 (26 Aug 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> Tottally disagree. You have to shop around. In my case I don't have to shop around.
> 
> My local bike shop will do a custom bike that will be just a cheap as Wiggle / Evans if not cheaper, and I can customise a bike with all the parts I want a get a excellant customer service.
> 
> ...



The problem is that unless the LBS has the part you want in stock (they can't possibly have every single thing available on demand) they have to order it in, and in my case it usually takes around a week and sometimes over two weeks to get the part in, then I have to wait until the weekend to collect it as the LBS opening hours are the same as my working hours.

Alternatively, I can go online (e.g. Chain Reaction or similar), find exactly the part I want quickly, order it and it will arrive (at my workplace, as that is most convenient for me) in 2-3 days. It is usually cheaper as well.

The stuff I do buy from the LBS are things they will definitely have in stock, like chains, brake pads, lubricant, cables etc.


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## Banjo (26 Aug 2011)

Unless I am in a rush I give LBS chance to get bits in even if a bit dearer what price do you put on friendly advice.


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## mickle (28 Aug 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> Hi. I wasnt talking about buying bits. Im talking about a new full custom bike is the same price if not cheaper from my LBS. And good kit built up by a pro mechanic. Not some china man in a factory.



Not some china man? Are you for real?


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## apollo179 (29 Aug 2011)

mickle said:


> Not some china man? Are you for real?


Cmon.
Lets cut each other a little slack here.
Fingers crossed for a satisfactory resolution terry.


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## Angelfishsolo (29 Aug 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> Hi. I wasnt talking about buying bits. Im talking about a new full custom bike is the same price if not cheaper from my LBS. And good kit built up by a pro mechanic. _*Not some china man in a factory.*_



Just noticed this post. I can not believe my eyes.!!!!


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## Jezston (29 Aug 2011)

What's a 'china man'? A man made of china?


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## Angelfishsolo (29 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> What's a 'china man'? A man made of china?



I guess he might struggle to get a lot of work done in the factory.


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## apollo179 (31 Aug 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> Oh sorry. I forgot. English man, Irish man Scots man is OK though China man makes you a racist. Sorry. How silly of me.


Your not a racist.
I cant understand why people are so ready to be so accusatory, were all cyclists on a cycling forum.. 
It seems so unnecessary and so unpleasant.
These forums seem to engendour sniping and attacks that woudnt happen between 2 people siiting across a table 
Its a shame imho.


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## Angelfishsolo (31 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Your not a racist.
> I cant understand why people are so ready to be so accusatory, were all cyclists on a cycling forum..
> It seems so unnecessary and so unpleasant.
> These forums seem to engendour sniping and attacks that woudnt happen between 2 people siiting across a table
> Its a shame imho.



You think not. I would not sit silently whilst someone called a Chinese person a China Man. Chinese Man yes.


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## Angelfishsolo (31 Aug 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> Oh sorry. I forgot. English man, Irish man Scots man is OK though China man makes you a racist. Sorry. How silly of me.



An Englishman is from England
A Scotsman from Scotland
A _*Chinese*_ man is from China.


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## NormanD (31 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> An Englishman is from England
> A Scotsman from Scotland
> *A Chinese man is from China.*


No he's not, he's from my local take-away  (joke people ... settle down)


Good luck with the bike Terry


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## Dave W (31 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> An Englishman is from England
> A Scotsman from Scotland
> A _*Chinese*_ man is from China.



Potato, potato.

Pronouncing someone's ethnicity wrong isn't racist, just apparently a stick to hit someone with.


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## terry_gardener (31 Aug 2011)

bike was picked up on Friday and I checked city-link yesterday and it was delivered and signed for at 13:00 yesterday. 

no contact yet from wiggle but it is a bit soon


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## wakou (31 Aug 2011)

At last a sensible response to the thread. GL Terry, keep us posted.


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## jay clock (31 Aug 2011)

just read this right through and agree clearances look laughably small. Hope Wiggle sort it out quickly.

re the argy bargy about the "risks" of buying online I am 100% honest with my LBS about what deals I can get online. Sometimes I use online (mostly) as it is cheaper. As for comments about "we can get it in", so can I and usually cheaper.

I have bought four bikes in 8 years from my same LBS and got good deals. I would be just as happy buying online though

Jay


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## Rob3rt (31 Aug 2011)

I cant believe you silly white bastards are moaning about the use of the term China man!


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## Angelfishsolo (31 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> I cant believe you silly white bastards are moaning about the use of the term China man!



Feck you cracker.


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## apollo179 (1 Sep 2011)

Dave W said:


> Potato, potato.
> 
> Pronouncing someone's ethnicity wrong isn't racist, just apparently a stick to hit someone with.



Exactly well said.
A stick to beat somebody with.
Your powers of expression are much better than mine.

Fingers crossed for good progress on the bike btw terry.


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## terry_gardener (3 Sep 2011)

i am still awaiting for Wiggle to sort this order return out.

when i email customer services (shane) yesterday about 14:30 he said it should have been done already and will ask the workshop manager to do it forthwith.

which means at once or immediately and i am still waiting.


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## apollo179 (4 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> i am still awaiting for Wiggle to sort this order return out.
> 
> when i email customer services (shane) yesterday about 14:30 he said it should have been done already and will ask the workshop manager to do it forthwith.
> 
> which means at once or immediately and i am still waiting.



Sounds like just slight incompetence rather than anything to worry about.
Just keep chasing it up.


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## terry_gardener (5 Sep 2011)

i have got the full refund now. 

they didn't say anything about the bike. 

they stated the delay was due to a new refund system they have recently rollout has cased backlog. 

i would like to thank everyone fort the support and advice on this matter.


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## Banjo (5 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> i have got the full refund now.
> 
> they didn't say anything about the bike.
> 
> ...



Excellent result.  

Any idea what you will get instead?


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## terry_gardener (5 Sep 2011)

Banjo said:


> Excellent result.
> 
> Any idea what you will get instead?



maybe the cube agree sl 

Cube Agree SL


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## abo (5 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> maybe the cube agree sl
> 
> Cube Agree SL



Looks tasty! I'll have to keep an eye out for you on that, probably as you come flying past me 

Glad to hear you got it sorted out, shame it took a bit of messing about but that seems to be the way of things these days


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## Banjo (5 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> maybe the cube agree sl
> 
> Cube Agree SL




Looks good.


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## dave r (5 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> i have got the full refund now.
> 
> they didn't say anything about the bike.
> 
> ...




Thats a good result.


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## Black knight (5 Sep 2011)

Good to hear it got resolved relativley quickly.


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## mickle (5 Sep 2011)

This thread made me look very closely at the rear tyre clearance of very many high end bikes last week. Not a single one was as close as yours. Glad you got your money back.


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## dellzeqq (6 Sep 2011)

mickle said:


> This thread made me look very closely at the rear tyre clearance of very many high end bikes last week. Not a single one was as close as yours. Glad you got your money back.


mine is pretty darn close - a 25mm tyre will rub.

the odd thing about this is that other people had the same bike with a greater clearance. How can that be?


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## apollo179 (6 Sep 2011)

Please to hear it was resolved Terry.
The whole thing with the tyre rub is very strange though.


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## rsvdaz (6 Sep 2011)

terry_gardener said:


> maybe the cube agree sl
> 
> Cube Agree SL



you can get a pro for the same price


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## Jezston (6 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> mine is pretty darn close - a 25mm tyre will rub.
> 
> the odd thing about this is that other people had the same bike with a greater clearance. How can that be?



His was a small size. Seemed they'd cocked up the design on the smaller model.


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