# Touring bike - what should it look like?! *urgent*



## pedaling (28 Apr 2009)

Am looking at a bike off freecycle soon (very soon!). Person thinks it is a touring bike but isn't sure (I think so as was originally bought for a cycling holiday.)

What should I look out for? I'm guessing no suspension, drop handlebars, capacity for mudguards and panniers/ racks?

Thanks massively!


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## Alembicbassman (28 Apr 2009)

A traditional tourer would be something like a Dawes Galaxy.

Steel frame, drop bars, full mudguards, rear pannier rack etc...

700c wheels and 25-28mm tyres.

There are many bikes that will have an MTB type frame with 700c wheels, panniers and mudguards like the Raleigh Pioneer. These MTB tourers can have fixed or suspension forks.

At the least you want full mudguards and a rack for touring.


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## Paulus (28 Apr 2009)

Somehting like this---

http://www.dawescycles.com/p-28-ultra-galaxy.aspx


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## Paulus (28 Apr 2009)

Or these---

http://www.robertscycles.com/p_touring.html


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## pedaling (28 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the advice - it isn't a tourer I don't think.

It is a peugeot bike. I think it is a shopper type bike? She said she has changed the handlebars (they used to be drop down) and the seat (it used to be a very thin one.)

Bearing in mind I only have a MTB, might be worth me getting for small town trips at least? What do you think?

(Is there an easy way of putting pics on here without having an url?)


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## Randochap (28 Apr 2009)

Lookee here.


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## pedaling (28 Apr 2009)

Is this bike okay/ easy to make rideable or is it not worth bothering with?


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## pedaling (28 Apr 2009)

Apparently it's only been used for a week on a cycling holiday, after which the person decided they hated cycling. Since then it's been used a couple of times and the tyres punctured, but nothing since. Max a few weeks riding according to the owner...

Well, er, any advice? Yay or nay?


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## Alembicbassman (28 Apr 2009)

Looks like a ladies 10 speed bike.

Would be OK for city use.

Needs a good fettle, a full service would be about 50 quid.

If it's free then it's cheaper than a new one.


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## pedaling (28 Apr 2009)

Alembicbassman said:


> Looks like a ladies 10 speed bike.
> 
> Would be OK for city use.
> 
> ...



Yeh, it's completely free, and like I say, all I've got at the moment is a MTB. Would you change the handlebars to drop down again? Wouldn't I need to buy new tyres on top of service as well?


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## Randochap (28 Apr 2009)

Are you looking for a bike to ride, or a project?

This is a "project." It will cost more to "restore" than buying a better, newer bike. It has steel rims = won't stop in wet, ancient 5-sp freewheel, no proper derailleur hanger. Etc., etc., etc.

Again, do some research. VeloWeb is a good place to start.


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## alecstilleyedye (28 Apr 2009)

steel rims will require leather faced brake blocks. don't know where you can get those, but i'm sure somewhere will stock them.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Randochap said:


> Are you looking for a bike to ride, or a project?
> 
> This is a "project." It will cost more to "restore" than buying a better, newer bike. It has steel rims = won't stop in wet, ancient 5-sp freewheel, no proper derailleur hanger. Etc., etc., etc.
> 
> Again, do some research. VeloWeb is a good place to start.



A bike to ride. I don't know how to repair bikes (yet) so a project would just be more hassle. Not just the £50 the other guy reckoned earlier on in the thread then?


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

On here http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/complete-bikes/touring-bikes?page=1 (recommended for touring bikes in another thread) there only seems to be one women's touring bike. Do bikes differ much between men and women, aside from legsize?


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## jimboalee (29 Apr 2009)

Don't bother with it.
If you're not a bike mechanic, you will get in all sort of problems trying to upgrade a Pug.

Peugeot did all sorts of strange things with thread sizes. Some parts will be obselete. Especially the headset.

What size is the frame?

I'm searching for a 18 or 19" ladies bike.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Don't bother with it.
> If you're not a bike mechanic, you will get in all sort of problems trying to upgrade a Pug.
> 
> Peugeot did all sorts of strange things with thread sizes. Some parts will be obselete. Especially the headset.
> ...



I have no idea what size it is. For someone small, I know. The lady who had it is about 5" and I'm 5"3 so I gathered it would be okay for me (she had the seat down really low.)


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Don't know whether it's a decent bike/ what it's worth paying, but this looks nice http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAWES-GALAXY-...14&_trkparms=72:1688|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

My first bike was that kind of colour!


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Just been on the phone to bike shop about touring bikes. Apparently because I'm small I'm going to struggle getting a women's touring bike/ having much choice?!

The person I spoke to recommended keeping my MTB and using that for touring. My MTB is made by Giant, got front suspension (maybe this is a problem?), was about £300/350 ish when I bought it about 7/8 years ago.

What do you reckon? Obviously this would mean less cost, which would be nice, but would it be less comfortable, not having drop handlebars? As I've never tried drop handlebars so it's difficult for me to try to make a comparison.

I'm planning on doing a Europe trip. I'm not sure for how long, or where exactly, tho I suspect it will include at least France/ Germany/ Switzerland as I've already got friends and family there. That's if I don't end up hating cycle touring (highly doubt I will tho!)


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Paulus said:


> As it is free, why not take it and give it a bit of TLC. The chain needs a bit of work as it rusty, but the tyres may be Ok but change the tubes as they are punctured. If you want to change the bars back to drops at a later date then so be it.



I suppose it would be good to practise my repair skills on at least. 

What do you do with rusty things? Replace them all? I guess if it's too much of a project I can just put it back on freecycle.

What do you think about taking the MTB touring?


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## Paulus (29 Apr 2009)

If you are prepared to do the work yourself, why not take it anyway and with a bit of TLC, the chain is as rusty as can be, it could be a reasonable bike to go down the shops on or the pub. I noticed that this bike has a 5 speed freewheel at the back, so it is probably only a ten speed, most tourers will have around 24-27 gears so it would make it a lot easier to tour fully loaded.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Paulus said:


> If you are prepared to do the work yourself, why not take it anyway and with a bit of TLC, the chain is as rusty as can be, it could be a reasonable bike to go down the shops on or the pub. I noticed that this bike has a 5 speed freewheel at the back, so it is probably only a ten speed, most tourers will have around 24-27 gears so it would make it a lot easier to tour fully loaded.



Oh, so you mean take it with the idea of maybe using it for touring?

What about converting the MTB, as the shop guy suggested?


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## bonj2 (29 Apr 2009)

Absolute GWC. DTWB.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

bonj said:


> Absolute GWC. DTWB.



Some translation needed...


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## Sittingduck (29 Apr 2009)

Hi Pedaling

Could you put a couple of pics of your MTB into this thread? (particularly the forks) Might be a better option to semi-convert it by changing a few simple bits. Could be a functional bike for use touring and probably comfy too? I don't think I would touch that Pug...

Cheers,
SD


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## Arch (29 Apr 2009)

pedaling said:


> What do you reckon? Obviously this would mean less cost, which would be nice, but would it be less comfortable, not having drop handlebars? As I've never tried drop handlebars so it's difficult for me to try to make a comparison.



You don't have to have drop bars to tour. In fact my tourer had drop bars and I changed them - I found that I never used the drop bits, and that normal bars (the slightly bent upwards ones, not dead flat) are more comfortable, for me, esp with bar ends to change position on. What matters is what you find comfortable over the sort of distance you intend to do, combined with practicality (things like having a rack)

The Pug looks like just the thing for taking into town, as a less-attractive-to-thieves hack. If you set out to make it special, you could spend a fortune, but unless it's seriously knackered, then it might be fine for short hops, and if it's free, it's free. Even if you only ride it until it dies, you'll not have lost out. Of course, a bit of servicing never goes amiss. Indeed, it might be a good way to learn how to do a good service/little maintenance jobs, on a bike that doesn't matter if you cock up.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

So here is my mountain bike. You can spot my hiking boots in the background... because I hike/ walk and also run I have baselayers and all that which should be quite helpful for my cycling trip  What do you reckon of this then?


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> Hi Pedaling
> 
> Could you put a couple of pics of your MTB into this thread? (particularly the forks) Might be a better option to semi-convert it by changing a few simple bits. Could be a functional bike for use touring and probably comfy too? I don't think I would touch that Pug...
> 
> ...



What are the forks? (You see, I really don't have a clue about bikes...) You can see my pics now. Let me know if you need closer up/ to see parts specifically.


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2009)

There was a recent thread from someone asking about touring on a mtn bike. I think you can, if you change a few things, it's not ideal but if you don't plan huge mileages and are doing a fairly relaxed tour you can do it. You'll need slick tyres rather than knobblies, a crudcatcher type mudguard and a seat rack for your panniers. That should do you for a one-off tour but if you want to do more tours or longer mileage, you need a different bike. Unless you want a project, leave the pug.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> There was a recent thread from someone asking about touring on a mtn bike. I think you can, if you change a few things, it's not ideal but if you don't plan huge mileages and are doing a fairly relaxed tour you can do it. You'll need slick tyres rather than knobblies, a crudcatcher type mudguard and a seat rack for your panniers. That should do you for a one-off tour but if you want to do more tours or longer mileage, you need a different bike. Unless you want a project, leave the pug.



I'm planning on going for several weeks - maybe up two months or longer, around different countries in Europe.

Found a few threads on converting but I'm not sure how much MTBs differ so I couldn't garner that much from them.

I have mudguards on it but they're not very good. I asked in a shop though and apparently other types won't fit on my bike very well?


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2009)

Do you know what kind of daily mileage you will do, how much you'll be carrying i.e B&B or camping. When are you going and do you have a budget for a new bike?


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> Do you know what kind of daily mileage you will do, how much you'll be carrying i.e B&B or camping. When are you going and do you have a budget for a new bike?



No idea, most I've ever done on a bike before is about 16 miles in one day. Don't know how much I'll be carrying but camping is likely. Planning on staying with family and friends too and also a bit of couchsurfing. I know it seems a bit ridiculous to just up and go without any real plans but that's exactly what appeals about it.

Will be going once my exams are over, so from the end of June. I have until end of September. I don't really have a budget but I do have some money saved up so could buy a new bike if necessary.

I decided to get that other freecycle bike by the way - will be good for practise, if nothing else.

I exercise regularly, as I've mentioned, so overall my fitness isn't that bad.


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2009)

See in an ideal world I wouldn't take the Giant but look for something 2nd hand, like this. Read Randochaps link and you'll see that this is much closer to the mark than the Giant.

You could take the Giant though. If you plan to ride 30-60 miles a day it will be OK but a lot harder work than a tourer. You'll need slick tyres, maybe a new seat and a rack. The rack worries me as I think the only type that will fit the bill is this, which limits you to 25lb/11.3Kg of luggage, which if you plan to camp is probably not enough unless you have some very lightweight gear.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> See in an ideal world I wouldn't take the Giant but look for something 2nd hand, like this. Read Randochaps link and you'll see that this is much closer to the mark than the Giant.
> 
> You could take the Giant though. If you plan to ride 30-60 miles a day it will be OK but a lot harder work than a tourer. You'll need slick tyres, maybe a new seat and a rack. The rack worries me as I think the only type that will fit the bill is this, which limits you to 25lb/11.3Kg of luggage, which if you plan to camp is probably not enough unless you have some very lightweight gear.



Lightweight gear is stupidly expensive too... so maybe I'd be better with a proper touring bike. 30-60 miles isn't very much each day is it? I know I've not done it before, but I imagine after a few days I would be getting faster?

That bike looks nice. Thing is I'm quite small - according to bike shop it will be difficult to get a female touring bike for someone who's bordering on petite? (I have long legs and very short body though, so maybe not?)


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2009)

Well, 60 miles at say 10mph is 6 hours in the saddle plus breaks. On a tour, with load you won't average much more than that unless of course you are a fit and fast cyclist, only you will know the answer to that.

Yes you can cycle yourself to fitness touring, it can be bit painful doing that but I've done it in the past.

For the bike keep an eye on e-bay and local classifieds, you've still got to some time. Put a wanted on here as well.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> Well, 60 miles at say 10mph is 6 hours in the saddle plus breaks. On a tour, with load you won't average much more than that unless of course you are a fit and fast cyclist, only you will know the answer to that.
> 
> Yes you can cycle yourself to fitness touring, it can be bit painful doing that but I've done it in the past.
> 
> For the bike keep an eye on e-bay and local classifieds, you've still got to some time. Put a wanted on here as well.



Oh, okay. I'm not just planning on cycling - I want to do sightseeing, visit my friends and family etc too. Maybe do some cycling/ hiking with them, using their homes as a base for a bit.

If I get the bike before, then I will try to do some cycling. If not I'll just have to get on with it. I expect it will hurt and be a bit painful but most sport is at the beginning at least.

I don't really know what is a good bike or not though. Or what I should pay. Nor do I know if it will fit (legs/ body/ arm ratio maybe problematic - quite short arms.) Do you think I could get something decent for around £300?


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2009)

pedaling said:


> I don't really know what is a good bike or not though. Or what I should pay. Nor do I know if it will fit (legs/ body/ arm ratio maybe problematic - quite short arms.) Do you think I could get something decent for around £300?



£300 for a 2nd hand tourer should be fine. I'm not sure your LBS gave you good advice, I'd maybe ask elsewhere. 5' 3" is not so small and there should be plenty of bikes that will fit you. If you get the bike in good time then you should be able to make adjustments to it before you go. As for what's a good bike, run it by us when you come across one.


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## pedaling (29 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> £300 for a 2nd hand tourer should be fine. I'm not sure your LBS gave you good advice, I'd maybe ask elsewhere. 5' 3" is not so small and there should be plenty of bikes that will fit you. If you get the bike in good time then you should be able to make adjustments to it before you go. As for what's a good bike, run it by us when you come across one.



It wasn't the shop I've ever used before, and I didn't go in, I just rang up. They were the ones who said that what I wanted - ie. a tourer which fits - was "problematic"! Haha. I think they wrote me off due to lack of concrete plans as well.

Will try the usual shop this weekend. I've tried having a look online for some but can't find anything very suitable round here, so expect LBS will be able to guide me a bit more. Thanks for the patient advice


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

I completely forgot about these bikes, but we also have a purple raleigh which I could try converting if it would be suitable? Here's a pic.


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## Bodhbh (30 Apr 2009)

At work and the pictures seem to be blocked, but depending on the state of it there's no reason you couldn't tour on the MTB. As long as it carries the load and is comfy to ride for long periods, no problem. Issues are I guess, whether it is cost effictive in time and money versus buying a fully racked-up 2nd hand tourer, and if you can lock-out the front suspension to stop it being a pain on the road.

There's a pretty neat guide to upgrading a MTB for touring here:

http://www.adventure-cycling-guide.co.uk/bike3.htm


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## Crackle (30 Apr 2009)

Pedaling, the Raleigh looks far more suitable. The lack of suspension is a big bonus as well. You'd still need, new tyres, rack, mudguards, new seat and a service. I'd also consider clip on pedals or at the very least half toe clips. It looks in good condition.

Read the guide that bodhbh has linked to. You could use that, you will find it slower than a tourer, a bit harder work especially uphills but it does look usable. Here's one in touring/town guise, I think it looks the part: You've solved your problem.






Edit: Actually it's not quite the same might be a different model year but for all intents and purposes it's the same.


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## Hilldodger (30 Apr 2009)

Where abouts are you?

A touring bike doesn't have to look like anything, you just need a bike you can feel comfy on. I've been touring on my Penny Farthing, recumbents and a so-called 'town bike'

We build bikes up for people from parts and do refurbished ones too. If the Peugeot is free, take it - there will be useful parts on it and we can get any part to refurbish it, no problem.

www.cyclemagic.org.uk


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

Crackle said:


> Pedaling, the Raleigh looks far more suitable. The lack of suspension is a big bonus as well. You'd still need, new tyres, rack, mudguards, new seat and a service. I'd also consider clip on pedals or at the very least half toe clips. It looks in good condition.
> 
> Read the guide that bodhbh has linked to. You could use that, you will find it slower than a tourer, a bit harder work especially uphills but it does look usable. Here's one in touring/town guise, I think it looks the part: You've solved your problem.
> 
> ...



The raleigh is in good condition and has hardly ever been used. I'd guess about 30 miles usage total! It's not been used like my mountain bike which has been dragged through mud and over hills etc. My mum used to have it but she doesn't use it at all - she doesn't like cycling really.

Yippeee  I'm getting more and more excited thinking about this trip now!


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

Hilldodger said:


> Where abouts are you?
> 
> A touring bike doesn't have to look like anything, you just need a bike you can feel comfy on. I've been touring on my Penny Farthing, recumbents and a so-called 'town bike'
> 
> ...



I'm in south Manchester/ Cheshire. Do you know of anything like this in Manchester?


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## Arch (30 Apr 2009)

Just to point out, BTW, that even if a bike doesn't have the fixing points for a 'proper' rack, something can often be worked out with p-clips and a bit of thought. It's the sort of thing a proper bike wrangler should enjoy solving.

My Galaxy (found second hand at a Uni bike auction, for £15!), despite being about the right size for me leg wise, was still a bit of a stretch arm wise, so we swapped the stem for a shorter stump necked one (brings the bars closer to you), which solved the problem. So there are solutions to the problem of finding a perfect fit. 

Like Crackle says, the Raleigh might do it - in fact those pedals might take a toeclip, which would save changing them (see if you can lever off one of the pedal reflectors - that's where you fit a toe clip. I have the half type (like toe caps) and they are fine for me. Can't quite see if it has a rack boss at the rear dropout, but it seems to have one at the seatpost end of the seat stays, which is hopeful.


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

Arch said:


> Just to point out, BTW, that even if a bike doesn't have the fixing points for a 'proper' rack, something can often be worked out with p-clips and a bit of thought. It's the sort of thing a proper bike wrangler should enjoy solving.
> 
> My Galaxy (found second hand at a Uni bike auction, for £15!), despite being about the right size for me leg wise, was still a bit of a stretch arm wise, so we swapped the stem for a shorter stump necked one (brings the bars closer to you), which solved the problem. So there are solutions to the problem of finding a perfect fit.
> 
> Like Crackle says, the Raleigh might do it - in fact those pedals might take a toeclip, which would save changing them (see if you can lever off one of the pedal reflectors - that's where you fit a toe clip. I have the half type (like toe caps) and they are fine for me. Can't quite see if it has a rack boss at the rear dropout, but it seems to have one at the seatpost end of the seat stays, which is hopeful.



Wow - must look at the bike auctions near me then!

I've been to the bike shop and got some good advice. They said a touring bike would be best, obviously, but they reckon the Raleigh should work quite well, once I get seat sorted, change tyres etc.

Do I need toeclips then? I don't know much about them.

They managed to convince me to try out some touring round here before I head off too...


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## Paulus (30 Apr 2009)

No you don't need toe clips, they will help to keep your feet in the correct position on the pedals, but if you don't want them, that's your choice. Any bike can be used for touring with a few alterations. As said before, you will need different tyres to the ones you have on the MTB, you will need mudguards and a rack. Other than that, if you are comfortable on the bike and the bike is in descent nick then that will do.


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## Arch (30 Apr 2009)

pedaling said:


> Wow - must look at the bike auctions near me then!
> 
> I've been to the bike shop and got some good advice. They said a touring bike would be best, obviously, but they reckon the Raleigh should work quite well, once I get seat sorted, change tyres etc.
> 
> ...



Toeclips will help - if nothing else, they keep your feet in the optimum pedalling position and they also let you pull up a bit as well as pushing down all the time. I use them, mainly for the keeping my foot on the pedal reason.

The Galaxy was a bit of luck. It was a Uni auction, and all the students wanted MTBs, preferably with s'penshun, and in red. They were paying £50 or £60 for bikes that probably cost that new, and were total rust buckets. No one wanted a drop bar touring bike in lilac metallic paint, with white bar tape and a cross bar. My then BF picked it out, measured me against it, and bid - the only bid, £15. The auctioneer knew me, and made little effort to bump the price up further. We pumped up the tyres, and he rode it home (he wanted to be sure brakes and stuff worked). We stripped it down, resprayed it blue and silver, rebuilt it (that's where I learned most of the stuff I know now) and I rode it to Norfolk on my first solo tour.

9 years later and after a period of not being used, it's just been stripped again and powdercoated red, and I've lined the lugs gold, and it's going to look lovely when it's all fixed up again. I wish the BF was still here to see it.

But enough about me... The main thing is to have a bike you're comfortable with, as Roger said. And start off gently and work up the distances. At least if you're also planning sightseeing and stuff you can take days off when you fancy it. A touring holiday, afterall, is meant to be a holiday....


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## Arch (30 Apr 2009)

Paulus said:


> No you don't need toe clips, they will help to keep your feet in the correct position on the pedals, but if you don't want them, that's your choice. Any bike can be used for touring with a few alterations. As said before, you will need different tyres to the ones you have on the MTB, you will need mudguards and a rack. Other than that, if you are comfortable on the bike and the bike is in *descent* nick then that will do.



Sadly, it'll also have to be in ascent nick as well - for every freewheel, there's a climb first...


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## Randochap (30 Apr 2009)

pedaling said:


> They managed to convince me to try out some touring round here before I head off too...



You've stumbled upon some good advice there.

Sir Edmond Hillory didn't climb Everest before he done a bit of rambling in the Southern Alps.

BTW, your Raleigh has braze-ons for a rear rack, so that'll work, but the shop might have to install extensions on the rack, to clear the tyre and level it, b/c the frame is very small. Of course, switch out the tyres.

Do some reading. Again, might I suggest the touring pages I've put together on VeloWeb?


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

Arch said:


> Toeclips will help - if nothing else, they keep your feet in the optimum pedalling position and they also let you pull up a bit as well as pushing down all the time. I use them, mainly for the keeping my foot on the pedal reason.
> 
> The Galaxy was a bit of luck. It was a Uni auction, and all the students wanted MTBs, preferably with s'penshun, and in red. They were paying £50 or £60 for bikes that probably cost that new, and were total rust buckets. No one wanted a drop bar touring bike in lilac metallic paint, with white bar tape and a cross bar. My then BF picked it out, measured me against it, and bid - the only bid, £15. The auctioneer knew me, and made little effort to bump the price up further. We pumped up the tyres, and he rode it home (he wanted to be sure brakes and stuff worked). We stripped it down, resprayed it blue and silver, rebuilt it (that's where I learned most of the stuff I know now) and I rode it to Norfolk on my first solo tour.
> 
> ...



Yeh, that's true, I guess most students wouldn't want them.

I think you do need to go through that process of building/adapting bikes to really get an idea of what you're doing. What I find difficult is that I don't really have anyone to teach me very well (there are a few friends' dads, but I'm aware that they have quite busy jobs and I don't like to ask too much.) A BF who knows bikes would be helpful. The last one knew about as much as I did...

I've got the number of a policeman who sorts out the stolen bikes around here - apparently he's quite nice and sometimes manages to find what you're looking for, so I'm gonna give him a call tomorrow. May as well think positively - maybe, just maybe there's a gorgeous touring bike all set up and waiting for me...

Definitely want it to feel like a holiday - and visiting friends and family I expect it will! But I wanted the challenge of cycling - I've done flying and trains and I'd rather be outside, able to choose more what I want to do. That's the idea, anyway 

Will check out more of this toeclips business...


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## pedaling (30 Apr 2009)

Randochap said:


> You've stumbled upon some good advice there.
> 
> Sir Edmond Hillory didn't climb Everest before he done a bit of rambling in the Southern Alps.
> 
> ...



Yeh... I know I should really, but I tell myself that because I walk and run regularly it shouldn't be too difficult. My body will need to get used to cycling much further than I've done before. There's plenty of gorgeous places around Cheshire anyway - I'm in a good place for starting!

I have looked at VeloWeb - especially like the lit quotes! And I did find it helpful, but some bits I feel like I don't have the background/ don't know the terminology to understand all of it, if that makes sense... 

Any idea on the best place to look for repairing the peugoet bike which I will soon be collecting? Or do you need more pics?


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## Arch (30 Apr 2009)

Re toeclips - I have the strapless sort, very easy to use, no trouble to get feet into and out of, but just make enough difference (even little things like being able to pull the pedal up to restart when you stop, rather than having to hook your foot under it)

Just playing about with/stripping a bike is a great way to learn. You can always get a book (one with lots of pictures) and try out a few of the basic service jobs. That would be a good use for that Peugeot...

One trick, when you're doing any job, is to take a step back and really look at the bike. Work out what goes where, and WHY. Make sure you know how something like the brakes works - follow the cable from one end to another. That way, when it's all in bits, and you can't remember how it fitted, you can work it out...


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## Arch (1 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Any idea on the best place to look for repairing the peugoet bike which I will soon be collecting? Or do you need more pics?



If you fancy trying DIY, then if you can find an old copy of Richard's Bicycle Book (by Richard Ballantine), it'll have some old time maintenance and repair tips. If you get a first edition, it'll also tell you how to kill dogs. They pop up quite often in charity shops, I find.

Otherwise, people generally recommend the late Sheldon Brown's webpages.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

There are lots of bike manuals out there - even Haynes do one. Worth looking at a few in a shop and seeing which ones seem clearest to you.


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## Crackle (1 May 2009)

Arch said:


> If you fancy trying DIY, then if you can find an old copy of Richard's Bicycle Book (by Richard Ballantine), it'll have some *old time maintenance* and repair tips. If you get a first edition, it'll also tell you how to kill dogs. They pop up quite often in charity shops, I find.



Oy! Less of that. I bought it first time around. Actually it is a brilliant book. It's the book that opened my eyes to cycling and sent me on my first tour.


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## Arch (1 May 2009)

Crackle said:


> Oy! Less of that. I bought it first time around. Actually it is a brilliant book. It's the book that opened my eyes to cycling and sent me on my first tour.



Oh, no offence meant at all, it's my kind of thing! I merely meant it might be more in tune with that old Pug than with something modern with STI levers and stuff... Much more my cup of tea. Like the difference between looking under the bonnet of my old Mini, and the bonnet of something brand new today.

I'm not sure how many copies I have - at least 2 of the older editions I think (with that sweater on the front), a kids version by Piccolo, and the 21st century version.


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## Crackle (1 May 2009)

None taken. Actually I read it in 79/80 but it was the '72 edition with the 'how to kill dogs' section. I see he's updated it now but I wonder if I'd feel the same reading that. I think I read the last one just at the right time and I'd say Pedaling is at that point now. You should get it Pedaling, as Arch says, it'll be perfect for the Pug and your upcoming adventure.


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## ed_o_brain (2 May 2009)

I'm in South Manchester.
You can borrow my copy of Simon Doughty's Long Distance Cyclists Handbook so long as you promise to bring it back. I will track you down if you don't because it's treasured!

It will be good for you to start with some fairly shortish local rides and then slowly build up your miles. Cycling is something you have to find your own way with. What one person finds nice and comfortable another person will find uncomfortable and pain ful.

There are plenty of local groups. I recommend you look at South Manchester CTC, their C group do some fairly leisurely rides. This is a good place for you to get started and also talk to other cyclists.

You will need some slick tyres, good cycling shorts and a good saddle. A light comfortable rucksack will do you for a half days cycling. You will need to carry a spare tube, puncture repair kit, tyre levers, allan keys, a pump and maybe a multi tool. I have a spare pump in the shed that wil be ideal for your MTB. You will also need to get a bottle cage or two on your bike with a couple of water bottles. On rides lasting more than half an hour, you will need water. Also snacks.

TBH, if I were you, I wouldn't rush to buy a new bike just yet. And I don't think it makes much difference whether you use that Raleigh in the shed or the Giant. Just get out and do some rides.

My partner is short and we really wanted a touring bike for her commute, on a tight budget. In the end we bought a Specialized Tricross single speed in the smallest size. We actually got a really good riding position for her on it, despite it being a gents bike. You might like to take a look at the geared version. I'm sure she wouldn't mind if you had a look at hers. She's probably a good person for you to talk to about cycling.

Don't rush into anything. There's lot of good advice given here, but you will need to work on making sure you are able to stay comfortable in the saddle for long periods of time if you want to do bigger miles. As a generaly guide, people say increase your mileage by 10% week on week.


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

ed_o_brain said:


> I'm in South Manchester.
> You can borrow my copy of Simon Doughty's Long Distance Cyclists Handbook so long as you promise to bring it back. I will track you down if you don't because it's treasured!
> 
> It will be good for you to start with some fairly shortish local rides and then slowly build up your miles. Cycling is something you have to find your own way with. What one person finds nice and comfortable another person will find uncomfortable and pain ful.
> ...



Thanks for the very thoughtful reply - lots of info there. It might be good to talk to your partner, yes, if she's willing to chat to me!

I've had a look at the group you mentioned. Doesn't seem to be any C rides at the moment but perhaps there will be in the future!


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

So I got the peugoet bike, and cleaned it for about an hour. It looks beautiful now! (IMO, at least!) I used soapy warm water (washing up liquid for soap!) and some cream cleaner type stuff on a bit of the very rusty bits and just water on some. I wasn't really sure what to use... Anyway, if you look at page one of this thread you'll see the bike before. Here's the after...

The bike seems to move okay. As in, everything goes around and nothing catches, but I can't try riding it because the tyres are knackered and I don't want to misshape the wheels. I have some questions though...

- is there any way I can salvage the mudguard which is slightly snapped? (see pic.)
- what can I do to get the bit which connects the mudguard to connect to the main bit/ where the spokes are? (see pic where I have my hand in pic.)
- what do I need to do to the chain/ middle bit where the pedal is/ anything else?
- which tyres do I need to get? (see pic of markings on tyres.) are these the right ones? The valve on the tyres look a bit weird/ not working atm too.

OH DEAR! Just found this ... apparently I need to go and make sure I got all of it off as I was using washing up liquid... Argh. Any advice on what to substitute the degreaser/ greaser/ bike lube with which I might have in the house anyway?

Essentially I'm looking for advice on what to do next with it...


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## cheadle hulme (3 May 2009)

Nice bike for a freecycler! Unfortunately, those wheels are a weird 24" french size. Not only will braking in the wet be very poor, but tyre choice is limited. 

I found these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/category-Tyres--24-(540)-345.htm, but I'm sure if you search for other 24 inch (540) tyres you may find something else.

It could do with a new chain (£10 from any decent LBS) but you may find the chain jumps on the old sprocket. decathlon in Stockport do reasonable 5 speed sprockets for these. The mudguard just needs a new bolt at the back (again LBS) and some bodge/TLc on the front bit.

Call it £50 all in to get it roadworthy, but you can get a similar style bike from Decathlon with alloy rims and modern brakes for £129.......


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> Nice bike for a freecycler! Unfortunately, those wheels are a weird 24" french size. Not only will braking in the wet be very poor, but tyre choice is limited.
> 
> I found these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/category-Tyres--24-(540)-345.htm, but I'm sure if you search for other 24 inch (540) tyres you may find something else.
> 
> ...



Not nice bike if not from a freecycler? 

I wanted this though because I wanted to learn how to clean it/ make it work... whereas if I just bought a new one, I wouldn't learn. Also I don't want a new bike because I want a slightly rubbishy one to take to uni, in the hope that it won't get stolen.

Thanks for explaining the tyres. I'll have a look at what I can find... why will braking in the wet be difficult because of the tyres?

I've since attempted to clean the chain with hot water, then rinsed it, then sprayed some WD 40 on it. In the process I managed to do something which now means the chain won't turn 

What do you mean by 'bodge' and what's 'the front bit'?


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## cheadle hulme (3 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Thanks for explaining the tyres. I'll have a look at what I can find... why will braking in the wet be difficult because of the tyres?



Not the tyres, but the rims. They're made of steel and very slippery when wet.


pedaling said:


> I've since attempted to clean the chain with hot water, then rinsed it, then sprayed some WD 40 on it. In the process I managed to do something which now means the chain won't turn



Actually, that chain and freewheel looks quite good. Use something a bit thicker than WD40 though.


pedaling said:


> What do you mean by 'bodge' and what's 'the front bit'?



Bodge - make do and mend, just use some thick tape or something on the front bit of the mudguard.

Good luck with your fettling (cyclist term for fixing and general tinkering). If you need to borrow any tools just pm me.


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> Not the tyres, but the rims. They're made of steel and very slippery when wet.
> 
> 
> Actually, that chain and freewheel looks quite good. Use something a bit thicker than WD40 though.
> ...



Can I do anything about the rims? Change the brake pads to compensate for it?

Regarding the tyres, should I try to keep slim ones on it like it has at the moment?

I'll buy some bike lube stuff soon. What would you say are the basics I need to buy, aside from puncture repair kit? On that 'clean your bike' link I found it mentioned degreaser, grease and bike lube. Will that suffice?

Might end up pming you. I have nigh on zero tools!

Another reason I want to keep it is because I think it actually looks quite pretty. Shitty reason for something I want to use as transport, I know, but it has charmed me... Plus I don't want my TLC to go to waste!


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## Sittingduck (3 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> In the process I managed to do something which now means the chain won't turn



Looks like you have somehow allowed the chain to slip off the largest sprocket and fall into the gap between the cog section and the spokes. You will need to pull it out and re-seat it onto a sprocket - or you won't be going too far... no matter how much effort you put in when cycling! 

p.s. Good luck with it.


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> Looks like you have somehow allowed the chain to slip off the largest sprocket and fall into the gap between the cog section and the spokes. You will need to pull it out and re-seat it onto a sprocket - or you won't be going too far... no matter how much effort you put in when cycling!
> 
> p.s. Good luck with it.



Okay, I tried doing that, but it looks like the sprocket bit and the bit just beneath that (I don't know what it's called) won't line up, so it's still not turning. I tried making it line up but I don't really understand how to do it because it just seems to come off the sprocket bit? You can see at the bottom of this pic.


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## Sittingduck (3 May 2009)

Okay - looks like you need to adjust the derailleur (the metal mechanism that moves the chain from one sprocket to another). There should be a wire attached to the derailleur - this controls the tension. Where the wire attached to the metal bit there is a barrell shaped adjuster.... you willl need to turn it to make the chain line up. I think you willl need to twist it clockwise to move the derailleur to make it line up. Somebody else here can probably explain it better than me. 

This should help (don't mind the guy in the vid... he's a bit creepy but knows his bikes  )


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## pedaling (3 May 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> Okay - looks like you need to adjust the derailleur (the metal mechanism that moves the chain from one sprocket to another). There should be a wire attached to the derailleur - this controls the tension. Where the wire attached to the metal bit there is a barrell shaped adjuster.... you willl need to turn it to make the chain line up. I think you willl need to twist it clockwise to move the derailleur to make it line up. Somebody else here can probably explain it better than me.
> 
> This should help (don't mind the guy in the vid... he's a bit creepy but knows his bikes  )



I find he sounds very enthusiastic (his voice) but his facial expressions don't really match up... anyway... am part way through the tutorial so hopefully he will get to the problem I'm having soon. And yes, I tried moving things to see what they do and that's probably how I ended up with this problem!

'WD40 is a solvent, good for stripping rust and un-sticking seized parts. It is not a lubricant and should never be used on your drivetrain, cables, bearings, etc… I only mention it because it is a common misconception. In my years as a mechanic I saw many damaged bicycles because people thought it was good to use WD40 on their chain - or even worse - in their bearings.
I don’t know GT85, as I’ve never used spray lube before. It doesn’t look like something I’d use. Regular bicycle chain oil always works the best. Triflow or 3in1 works well for cable housings and pivots, and obviously a good waterproof grease for bearings.
More about the harmful effects of WD40 here:
[URL="http://bicycletutor.com/no-wd40-bike-chain/'"]http://bicycletutor.com/no-wd40-bike-chain/'[/URL]

Just read this... oh dear... I really need to get some oil intended for bikes.

Edit: I think he explains some problems but not the one I'm having, unless I'm mistaken and don't understand the terminology?!


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## Andy in Sig (4 May 2009)

I would suggest you get a copy of Bicycle Technology by Rob van den Plas (you can get it from Amazon) and something like a toppeak Alien multitool. Don't be put off by the title of the book as it is basically a complete "how to" guide about bikes as well as providing some background theory if you are interested in that kind of thing. I've got a copy and it's the first thing I turn to if I need to do some maintenance/repair work I've never tackled before.


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## Crackle (4 May 2009)

Pedaling, push the shift lever as far forward as it will go. Manually lift the chain onto the smallest cog rear. Now gently turn the cranks. If the chain hops about, see which way it's trying to go, up or down. 

You have two adjustment screws on the deraileur, the lower of those now comes into play (the lower is the one with L against it) and needs adjusting acording to the instructions in the video posted. Basically if it's not engaging with the lower cog but is riding between it and the next up, screw the screw out. If it's trying to jump off the lower cog, screw it in. Just adjust a half turn of the screw at a time.

A word of warning. The limit screws sometimes work the opposite way to the way I've said. If by turning it as described it gets worse, reverse my instructions.

Once you've done this it should stop hopping. You make the same kind of adjustment for the large cog. Use the shift lever to take the chain up to the 2nd largest cog, then gently move it back to take it onto the largest. Once just on, very gently pull the lever further back. If the chain starts to get noisy and hop, you need to screw the upper limit screw in until it stops hopping and being noisy. 

The above will be slightly different to the vid because he's adjusting indexed gears, yours are friction not indexed, so more 'feel' is involved.

One more thing: If the shift cable from the shift lever to the rear deraileur is quite slack once you've put it in it's lowest gear, it's as well to tighten this before you make the adjustments (it looks OK in the pics).


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## Crackle (4 May 2009)

By the way, I think it's a beautiful bike, well worth the effort. As to the steel rims, yes, one day replace the wheels but I rode steel wheel bikes for years, even toured on them, braking is rubbish compared to modern rims but you get used to them. That said, steel wheels are heavy and even a cheap pair of new wheels will give the bike a zippier feel.


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## pedaling (4 May 2009)

I'll let you know how I get on. Am on PC trying to do academic work at the moment. How well that's -not- going. Yep, Crackle, I think it's pretty, which sort of swung it for me too. Plus it's French... and I have French family so I was all a bit 'oooh' over the Frenchness.


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## Arch (4 May 2009)

Crackle said:


> By the way, I think it's a beautiful bike, well worth the effort. As to the steel rims, yes, one day replace the wheels but I rode steel wheel bikes for years, even toured on them, braking is rubbish compared to modern rims but you get used to them. That said, steel wheels are heavy and even a cheap pair of new wheels will give the bike a zippier feel.



Here, here, she looks lovely.

With the steel rims, I gather you can get brake blocks with leather inserts that grip better on steel. Otherwise, no, they won't grab as well as alloy, but you just adjust your riding style a bit - don't go at it bull-at-a-gate, think ahead, and minimise your need to brake fiercely as much as you can. It's like owning an old car - you make allowances for it.


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## pedaling (5 May 2009)

Okay... I have some more questions for you. I'm leaving the peugoet for a bit because the derailler is annoying me. I don't really get how to change it and need more time to figure it out without getting annoyed at it...

anyhow... I got the Raleigh out now, and I was wondering a few things...

- which is the best way to get rust off a bike? (the Raleigh chain is a LOT rustier than I expected) Is it okay to use cream cleaner/ abrasive (sp?) provided I clean it all off afterwards
- am I ok to use washing up liquid, providing again that I get it all off afterwards?
- any advice on decathlon bike lube/ oil/ whatever else? I'm going to buy some but I'm not sure which is best. The parts on all of my bikes are looking like they need stuff putting on them because they're all very dry... http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/bike-maintenance-3959506/


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## Arch (5 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> - which is the best way to get rust off a bike? (the Raleigh chain is a LOT rustier than I expected) Is it okay to use cream cleaner/ abrasive (sp?) provided I clean it all off afterwards
> - am I ok to use washing up liquid, providing again that I get it all off afterwards?
> - any advice on decathlon bike lube/ oil/ whatever else? I'm going to buy some but I'm not sure which is best. The parts on all of my bikes are looking like they need stuff putting on them because they're all very dry... http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/bike-maintenance-3959506/



Rust off the bike, or off the chain? If the chain is really rusty, splash out on a new one (you'll need to note how many sprockets you have, to get one the right width)

No sure what to advise about cleaning, I think everyone has their best methods. You're probably not going to hurt it much with washing up liquid, or cream cleaner, esp if, as you say, you rinse it well. Just beware of using anything too abrasive, so that you scratch the piant and potentially let more rust get hold. I use Muck-off spray on my bikes (mainly to shift the really greasy crud that builds up around the sprockets), but I know some people hate it. Mind you, I only really clean my bikes once a year.

For lube, I use Finish Line (or the Halfords own brand equivalent), comes in bottles like this. Finer than oil, less sticky - comes in 'wet' (green top) and 'dry' (red top) types, I find the dry is adequate for my day to day riding. Again, others will have a favourite to recommend.


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## Arch (5 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Okay... I have some more questions for you. I'm leaving the peugoet for a bit because the derailler is annoying me. I don't really get how to change it and need more time to figure it out without getting annoyed at it...




And I know how you feel. What we need is a forum where one of us can reach through the screen and go "here, you twiddle this bit..." Describing parts can be so difficult!


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## pedaling (5 May 2009)

Arch said:


> Rust off the bike, or off the chain? If the chain is really rusty, splash out on a new one (you'll need to note how many sprockets you have, to get one the right width)
> 
> No sure what to advise about cleaning, I think everyone has their best methods. You're probably not going to hurt it much with washing up liquid, or cream cleaner, esp if, as you say, you rinse it well. Just beware of using anything too abrasive, so that you scratch the piant and potentially let more rust get hold. I use Muck-off spray on my bikes (mainly to shift the really greasy crud that builds up around the sprockets), but I know some people hate it. Mind you, I only really clean my bikes once a year.
> 
> For lube, I use Finish Line (or the Halfords own brand equivalent), comes in bottles like this. Finer than oil, less sticky - comes in 'wet' (green top) and 'dry' (red top) types, I find the dry is adequate for my day to day riding. Again, others will have a favourite to recommend.



Rust on the bike and the chain! I think it might be okay if I give it a clean. Will pop down to Halfords and get some of that Finish Line stuff. Do I need anything else for the other parts, like oil or grease? It's 3 for 2 and I'd rather get them all at once.

I know what you mean about reaching out and explaining. I do appreciate all your help though! It just is incredibly useful to see it properly, and being able to see it on my bikes helps too.


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## Arch (5 May 2009)

I'm not the best to ask really, I'm a bit lax about lubing and stuff - I reckon Finishline will do for most things - or rather, I'd probably use it anyway... You probably CAN get a different lube for every job, if you try, but whether you need to... Back in the old days, they just used 3-in-1 oil for the lot! I suppose Finishline is a liquid, and might be tricky to apply in some places - having can of stuff with a straw (like WD40 comes in, but not WD40, that' not really a lube) makes it easier to get to some bits, and to squirt it down cable outers and so on.

My other favourite is copper grease - that's really for when you assemble stuff, to stop bolts sticking irrevocably, it's just such pretty stuff.


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## pedaling (5 May 2009)

I tried it on the peugoet and my mountain bike. My mountain bike loves it. (I was lazy and haven't washed my mountain bike so it's all a bit cruddy - have been to the park etc with it recently.) The gears are a bit dodgy on my MTB (through wear and lack of service, I guess) but suddenly they moved more easily! Thought I'd solved the peugoet derailler - I tried moving it and it all seemed to go into place, then the chain hopped off - alas, no.

The raleigh bike seems okay to ride. I just tried it, going through the gears. Gears seem much smoother than the giant MTB, although the raleigh bike's brakes are majorly knackered. I'm going to give it a clean soon and then I'll put the liquid on it. Oh, and another thing about the raleigh is that I feel like my legs are squished up. It's so small compared to the giant MTB!

Gosh, it would be lovely to have ONE bike which works. Preferably a town bike.


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## ed_o_brain (5 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Thanks for the very thoughtful reply - lots of info there. It might be good to talk to your partner, yes, if she's willing to chat to me!
> 
> I've had a look at the group you mentioned. Doesn't seem to be any C rides at the moment but perhaps there will be in the future!



Drop us a pm with your email address and I'll give you a couple of contact numbers. 

I see there are no 'C' rides listed, sorry about that. South Manchester CTC are running a family ride about once a month which you might find a useful start. I can also pass you details of someone to call about those.


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## pedaling (11 May 2009)

Looks like the raleigh is too small for me. My legs are too big for it. Feel squished up on it so looks like it's going to be the giant mtb (see page 3 for pics.) Issue is of front suspension then - do I change the forks or what? Also issue of rack and getting it to fit enough luggage on it as I -might- be camping.

This is what Crackle said about the Giant...

'See in an ideal world I wouldn't take the Giant but look for something 2nd hand, like this. Read Randochaps link and you'll see that this is much closer to the mark than the Giant.

You could take the Giant though. If you plan to ride 30-60 miles a day it will be OK but a lot harder work than a tourer. You'll need slick tyres, maybe a new seat and a rack. The rack worries me as I think the only type that will fit the bill is this, which limits you to 25lb/11.3Kg of luggage, which if you plan to camp is probably not enough unless you have some very lightweight gear. '

Of course I could try to find a tourer instead, which might be easier? I don't know. Can't decide what to do.

Incidentally, this bike on ebay looks like the freecycle one I got!


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## Arch (11 May 2009)

Rear rack first: If you haven't got the necessary bosses for a standard rack, you may still be able to bodge (or get someone to bodge for you) a rack held on with P-clips. I woudn't want to swear to it, but I think it would take more than a seatpost mounted rack. 

Forks. There are two issue with suspension forks: weight, and the power they soak up when you pedal, esp when you pedal hard - the forks tend to 'bob', and each bob is power that isn't going through to the rear wheel. You may (I don't really know much about sus forks, others may be able to help) be able to 'lock' the forks, to lose the suspension, and therefore the bob. This of course, leaves you with heavier-than-you-need forks, for no reason. If you do swap the forks, you might be able to fit some with bosses for a front rack, which would take some of the pressure off what you need to fit on the rear.

I suppose it comes down to: 

Do you want to use the Giant seriously off road? If you don't want to ride on anything bumpier than a hardpacked gravel cyclepath, then you probably don't need to keep the front sus.

What's your budget like? Up to a point, changing bits and pieces is cheaper - especially if you can find a friendly person with a bit of mechanical wit to help you out. Even a second hand tourer is likely to cost a bit. I think my gut feeling is to see what you can do with the Giant, and see how you like touring - start with an overnight trip, build up to a long weekend and so on. It would be a shame to splash out and then find you actually don't want to do that sort of riding all that often - it might be that you ike the riding fine, but get fed up with setting up camp and packing up everyday, or you just get bored on long distances (This probably isn't the case, but it's wise to find out, I think).


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## pedaling (11 May 2009)

Arch said:


> I suppose it comes down to:
> 
> Do you want to use the Giant seriously off road? If you don't want to ride on anything bumpier than a hardpacked gravel cyclepath, then you probably don't need to keep the front sus.



I use it on relatively 'stony' park paths & in national trust places over hills etc (where I think I'm not supposed to actually) but that is the extent of my off-roadness.

So I don't really need the front suspension, do I?



Arch said:


> What's your budget like? Up to a point, changing bits and pieces is cheaper - especially if you can find a friendly person with a bit of mechanical wit to help you out. Even a second hand tourer is likely to cost a bit. I think my gut feeling is to see what you can do with the Giant, and see how you like touring - start with an overnight trip, build up to a long weekend and so on. It would be a shame to splash out and then find you actually don't want to do that sort of riding all that often - it might be that you ike the riding fine, but get fed up with setting up camp and packing up everyday, or you just get bored on long distances (This probably isn't the case, but it's wise to find out, I think).



My mildly bike-knowledgeable friend turns out to be more bike-knowledgeable than I thought!  He said he has taken his bikes apart and put them back together again before, so he must have relatively decent knowledge. He wasn't sure on what's wrong with the peugeot derailleur but he seemed to know about most of the other stuff, like how to redo the brakes etc.

He has offered to try and help me convert it if that's what I end up doing...


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## Crackle (11 May 2009)

Just on the rear rack. I don't think the p-clips which Arch mentions would work on this because of the shape of the rear triangle from the seat i.e. one tube into two. But! There are some vaguely screw like holes just above where the tube spilts to two. What are they Pedaling, can you take a closer picture?

You know after seeing the pictures of the Peugeot, I think you could use it you know.


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## pedaling (11 May 2009)

I think Peugeot is going to be uni bike, if I actually make it to uni. Sufficiently old/ crappy that hopefully it won't get taken but also a relatively fun looking bike to ride. I plan to get a basket for it! Once it's got new tyres, maybe new brakes, seat a little higher, it should be almost there. I think it's too small for me to go far on tho (although I am small my legs seem to be reasonably long for my height.)

Here are some pics of that bit and other rack-possible areas...


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## Crackle (11 May 2009)

Pedaling, those are braze-ons, or at least threaded bolts, that means it should take a rack, which in turn means, you could use the Giant after all.  You should have some corresponding holes near your rear dropout i.e. by rear wheel quick release/bolt.

Everything else still applies though about it not being perfect but it is usable it seems and for your first adventure, usable is all you need.


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## pedaling (11 May 2009)

Crackle said:


> Pedaling, those are braze-ons, or at least threaded bolts, that means it should take a rack, which in turn means, you could use the Giant after all.  You should have some corresponding holes near your rear dropout i.e. by rear wheel quick release/bolt.
> 
> Everything else still applies though about it not being perfect but it is usable it seems and for your first adventure, usable is all you need.



Marvellous! What do you think about the forks by the way? What shall I do with them? Friend is reccommending I change them...


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## Crackle (11 May 2009)

Ahh! Can't help with the forks. don't know enough about thread sizes and stuff. If you can get some rigid forks to fit then that may be fine for your tour. You have to be careful though, because changing the forks can alter the ride of the bike by lowering/highering the front of the bike and/or shortening/lengthening the wheelbase. It's the kind of thing you need good advice on and may be worth a seperate specific thread in Know How with a link to this one for people to fill in the background from.


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## cheadle hulme (11 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Looks like the raleigh is too small for me. My legs are too big for it.



How small? My wife is 5'1'' and I've been dying to get a little project bike fixed up for her. 

If you don't want it do you want to swap? I've got various bits and pieces you might need. 

No tyres though .


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## pedaling (11 May 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> How small? My wife is 5'1'' and I've been dying to get a little project bike fixed up for her.
> 
> If you don't want it do you want to swap? I've got various bits and pieces you might need.
> 
> No tyres though .



Probably would be ideal but it's actually my mum's bike, so I can't give it away unfortunately. Even though she doesn't use it. But, you know, 'one of these days' she might... 

Edit: I keep seeing the most gorgeous bikes around here, especially in Bramhall! Now I'm thinking about bikes it's almost like people are flaunting them!


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## Arch (12 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> My mildly bike-knowledgeable friend turns out to be more bike-knowledgeable than I thought!  *He said he has taken his bikes apart and put them back together again before*, so he must have relatively decent knowledge. He wasn't sure on what's wrong with the peugeot derailleur but he seemed to know about most of the other stuff, like how to redo the brakes etc.
> 
> He has offered to try and help me convert it if that's what I end up doing...



Now, just to be on the safe side, do make sure that they were still bikes AFTER he put them back together... (Most of the people I know, they might have ended up as bedsteads. Or indeed, memorably, a bedstead ended up as a bike, but enough of my looney mates...)

Hoorah for braze ons for your rack! Well spotted Crackle. We need a picture of the hub end of that rear triangle to be sure, but even if they weren't there, my p-clip idea might save the day down there anyway... (Honestly, I don't work for the National P-Clip Promotion Council, I just like the idea of making a thing work against the odds.)

I'd say, if you can find rigid forks of the right size (bearing in mind what Crackle said) go for it. If not, see if it's possible to 'lock' the suspension, or at least stiffen it up, for when you are riding mainly on the road.


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## pedaling (12 May 2009)

Arch said:


> We need a picture of the hub end of that rear triangle to be sure, but even if they weren't there, my p-clip idea might save the day down there anyway...
> 
> 
> > Which bit is this? Have put up a few ads for a touring bike incase I get anything. Quite like the idea of getting a new bike now anyway, but I am planning on changing the Giant regardless since I don't need the suspension and I -do- need the pannier space! Why I got this bike initially, I don't know!
> ...


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## montage (12 May 2009)

Could be worth checking out good old ebay for the old steel type racers  ....built solidly, fairly lightweight, many can take panniers/racks (if not then steel is easy enough to drill I believe). I recently purchased a great old triumph racer(believe the photo is on the photo forum on a thread I started somewhere)...at the moment it is my winter trainer, but considering putting a tripple chainset on to make it more touring friendly .


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## Arch (12 May 2009)

If you can get a pic of the point where the tubes of the bike meet, at the centre of the rear wheel, we should be able to see if there are braze ons.

The part of the frame behind the saddle is the rear triangle (formed of seat tube, (the bit the saddle fits in), seat stays (the diagonal bits from saddle to wheel hub) and chain stays (the horizonal bits from pedals to wheel hub) , and the centre of the wheel is the hub...

As to why you got the bike in the first place - unless you are born into a cycling family, or you think to do research frst, most people just get 'a bike' and assume it works for everything. My first adult bike was a ladies' town bike from Halfords - I knew it must be right because it had a ladies' frame and lots of gears and I quite liked the colour. I used it to get to work for a bit, and brought it with me when I came to Uni as a mature student. That was where I met Tom, who knew about cycling, and he showed me how it could be tweaked and changed to make it loads more efficient and comfortable - just things like a different saddle, alloy wheels instead of steel, better handlebars. He also persuaded me to buy my Galaxy tourer at the Uni bike auction, and I became the owner of 2 bikes! (I now have 3, and a recumbent trike) He also taught me most of what I know about maintenance and bike types and so on, and now, I pretty much think of myself as a cyclist first, and everything else second (even if I don't always do a lot of miles). I've worked with bikes (I do now, in a journalistic way), and pretty much all my friends are people I know because of bikes. But 10 years ago, I didn't know anything really, apart from how to ride one. We all learn somehow.

Sorry, that turned into a bit of an epic...


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## montage (12 May 2009)

Arch said:


> If you can get a pic of the point where the tubes of the bike meet, at the centre of the rear wheel, we should be able to see if there are braze ons.
> 
> The part of the frame behind the saddle is the rear triangle (formed of seat tube, (the bit the saddle fits in), seat stays (the diagonal bits from saddle to wheel hub) and chain stays (the horizonal bits from pedals to wheel hub) , and the centre of the wheel is the hub...
> 
> ...



What you want next, is a pedal powered spaceship


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## pedaling (12 May 2009)

montage said:


> Could be worth checking out good old ebay for the old steel type racers  ....built solidly, fairly lightweight, many can take panniers/racks (if not then steel is easy enough to drill I believe). I recently purchased a great old triumph racer(believe the photo is on the photo forum on a thread I started somewhere)...at the moment it is my winter trainer, but considering putting a tripple chainset on to make it more touring friendly .



If I'm buying a new bike it's going to be a touring bike! I thought racers aren't ideal at all? I'm sure a few people here said they aren't ideal for touring?

Might look at ebay once I've tried a few round here to get a feel for what height and which ones I like.


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## pedaling (12 May 2009)

Arch said:


> If you can get a pic of the point where the tubes of the bike meet, at the centre of the rear wheel, we should be able to see if there are braze ons.
> 
> The part of the frame behind the saddle is the rear triangle (formed of seat tube, (the bit the saddle fits in), seat stays (the diagonal bits from saddle to wheel hub) and chain stays (the horizonal bits from pedals to wheel hub) , and the centre of the wheel is the hub...
> 
> ...



My reply just got eaten by explorer and dodgy internet.

I was also making some long-ish ramble about how if people were more informed about bikes and their different pros and cons, maybe they would be able to buy more suitable bikes and perhaps people would even like cycling more, because they wouldn't be trying to lug a mountain bike round (which, having seen how many mountain bikes are on 2nd hand sites, seems to be the case for a lot of people!)


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## Arch (13 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> My reply just got eaten by explorer and dodgy internet.
> 
> I was also making some long-ish ramble about how if people were more informed about bikes and their different pros and cons, maybe they would be able to buy more suitable bikes and perhaps people would even like cycling more, because they wouldn't be trying to lug a mountain bike round (which, having seen how many mountain bikes are on 2nd hand sites, seems to be the case for a lot of people!)




Yes, it looks like you have a boss there to fit a rack to, hoorah! Like you say, even if the Giant doesn't end up touring, a rack is just so useful, even if only to bungy your coat to when you get hot.

You're quite right about people being more informed - it's a slow uphill job, but there are people out there doing it. I worked for Company of Cyclists (Now called Get Cycling, and employing Spandex and Mickle from here) who ran tryout roadshows to try and promote cycling and let people know about the range of bikes out there, and what was best for what purpose. I think the trouble is, a bike is slightly regarded as a grown up toy. People who'd spend months researching a new car in all the magazines, or compare 800 stereo systems to get the right one, will just buy the cheapest thing they can find in Halfords that seems to vaguely fit, because they don't understand that there are different sorts, and that some are better than others for different things.

On the other hand, I agonise over bike purchases, but will buy the cheapest stereo I can get.... 

Montage's thing about old steel racers - he could be right - 'racer' is one of those terms that is quite flexible, I think. Sometimes it's just meant anything with drop bars. A steel frame should be comfortable enough, and if it does have bosses for rack and mudguards, it would probably make do. 

Modern 'racers' (also called road bikes) tend to be designed to be stiff and fast, and have aluminium frames (or carbon, or titanium), and probably no bosses. That's the thing to avoid, for touring.

Main thing is, anything you get a chance to look at, check if it'll take rack and mudguards and have a ride to see if it's comfortable. Are you used to drop bars, BTW? (the sort that loop away and downwards, like race bikes) If not, they may take a bit of getting used to. I eventually decided I preferred 'normal' bars, so I have them now on my tourer (or will have, when it's rebuilt). That's another thing that can be altered to suit you.


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## pedaling (13 May 2009)

Yay! Perfect. (Well, not quite perfect, but good at least!) And yes, I think I am going to try and get a rack and different mudguards and slicks anyway if I don't find a touring bike. That or sell the Giant when I get a touring bike.

I think that kind of thing is EXACTLY what we need! People just don't realise how much choice there is out there, do they? And how would they know if they don't come from a cycling family and no-one really indicates much about it? Great idea. Would be good if that kind of thing was in schools too.

Yeh, I don't mind too much with stereos/ speakers either. Mind a bit, but not a lot. I guess stereos depends on what kind of music you listen to, like if you want much bass, or whether you listen to classical and need the range in volume.... hmmm

Oh, sorry, maybe I shouldn't have commented on that then. I don't really know enough to say but I was just pretty sure that some people on here said to avoid them. They must have meant the new ones then.

Nope, all I've ever ridden on is bikes like the one I have now...




Arch said:


> Yes, it looks like you have a boss there to fit a rack to, hoorah! Like you say, even if the Giant doesn't end up touring, a rack is just so useful, even if only to bungy your coat to when you get hot.
> 
> You're quite right about people being more informed - it's a slow uphill job, but there are people out there doing it. I worked for Company of Cyclists (Now called Get Cycling, and employing Spandex and Mickle from here) who ran tryout roadshows to try and promote cycling and let people know about the range of bikes out there, and what was best for what purpose. I think the trouble is, a bike is slightly regarded as a grown up toy. People who'd spend months researching a new car in all the magazines, or compare 800 stereo systems to get the right one, will just buy the cheapest thing they can find in Halfords that seems to vaguely fit, because they don't understand that there are different sorts, and that some are better than others for different things.
> 
> ...


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## montage (13 May 2009)

> Montage's thing about old steel racers - he could be right - 'racer' is one of those terms that is quite flexible, I think. Sometimes it's just meant anything with drop bars. A steel frame should be comfortable enough, and if it does have bosses for rack and mudguards, it would probably make do.


More or less what I was getting at.



> Oh, sorry, maybe I shouldn't have commented on that then. I don't really know enough to say but I was just pretty sure that some people on here said to avoid them. They must have meant the new ones then.


You were right to comment on that - it is an interesting point. The problem I would have if I took my current racing bike (aluminium+carbon frame...modern bike) on tour is that it may not have the correct attatchments for racks etc. Also, the position is very aggressive, which would be uncomfortable for loooong rides every day. Also, I get the feeling that my racing bike (and most likely most racing bikes) demand to be ridden fast - especially those without a tripple chainset and only 25teeth ring on the back - makes climbing up loooong alpine passes hard work (but faster  ) ...the option to go slow just is not there.

Some of the old "racers" are far more forgiving, due to their geomatry + steel makeup. Some of their positions are aggressive, but some of them have less aggressive positions, making is perfectly possible to make them into touring bikes.

My touring bike would be : current steel "racer" with a stem + handlebars set up to reduce aggressiveness of the position, double chainset removed, and replaced with a tripple, possible a wider range of gears on the cassette. Oh....lets not forget spd pedals!


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## pedaling (13 May 2009)

montage said:


> More or less what I was getting at.
> 
> 
> You were right to comment on that - it is an interesting point. The problem I would have if I took my current racing bike (aluminium+carbon frame...modern bike) on tour is that it may not have the correct attatchments for racks etc. Also, the position is very aggressive, which would be uncomfortable for loooong rides every day. Also, I get the feeling that my racing bike (and most likely most racing bikes) demand to be ridden fast - especially those without a tripple chainset and only 25teeth ring on the back - makes climbing up loooong alpine passes hard work (but faster  ) ...the option to go slow just is not there.
> ...



I think I see what you mean, and it definitely sounds like you have enough know-how to tinker your bikes to fit your needs. But as I can't yet do that I think if I buy one, I'm still looking to get a touring bike. Less things to change that way, hopefully.


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## Crackle (13 May 2009)

Keep your eye on e-bay, look at this for instance.


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## montage (13 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> I think I see what you mean, and it definitely sounds like you have enough know-how to tinker your bikes to fit your needs. But as I can't yet do that I think if I buy one, I'm still looking to get a touring bike. Less things to change that way, hopefully.



Haha, well for a start, I don't have many mechanic skills at all! Bikes are simply machines though, and applying logic works wonders when doing maintainence. Don't be put off by having to add/change parts.... they are great skills to learn, and really not that complicated!

Besides people here will be more than willing to help 
I'm not saying definately do this for your touring bike, I am saying don't rule it out as an option.


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## Arch (14 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> I think I see what you mean, and it definitely sounds like you have enough know-how to tinker your bikes to fit your needs. But as I can't yet do that I think if I buy one, I'm still looking to get a touring bike. Less things to change that way, hopefully.



It might be worth getting a book, one of the glossy manual types with a section on maintenance. It's the sort of thing you can often pick up in discount bookshops or charity shops, and will have a title like "The big book of cycling" or the "Doring Kindersley book of the bike" or something like that There are lots out there and it doesn't really matter which you get. It'll probably have a load of stuff you don't need (it might major on MTBing, or racing, or touring, or it might cover each with a page or so), but it will probably also have a diagram of the bike with parts named, and photo illustrated guides to basic and maybe less basic mechanic jobs. It's a good way to get to know what does what on your bike - looking at the lics, then at your bike to see how it compares. If you want to get a new book, I understand the Haynes manual isn't bad.

I'd still recommend any edition of Richard's Bicycle Book you can get your hand on (again, they pop up in charity shops a lot). Some of the older editions are very out of date in terms of equipment, but the _feeling_ is there, and most of the actual riding advice still stands.


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## pedaling (14 May 2009)

If this is 20 inches and for 5"4 and over, I'm guessing a 19 inches should be good then?


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## pedaling (14 May 2009)

Crackle said:


> Keep your eye on e-bay, look at this for instance.



You think it's okay getting a hybrid then? I think touring bikes look better, but maybe that's just me! Hybrid seems a bit like mountain bike made to take luggage from my POV!


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## chris667 (14 May 2009)

They're not ideal. But honestly, you can tour on anything, so long as it fits and you're comfortable.


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## Arch (14 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> If this is 20 inches and for 5"4 and over, I'm guessing a 19 inches should be good then?



That's pretty... Can't help you with the size issue, that's one of my blind spots - I would just say though: (I know you highlighted that one for size, but it reminded me)

A ladies frame is ok, but you don't need it unless you wear a skirt a lot, or you have trouble with your hip to make swinging your leg over difficult*. A ladies frame will be more 'flexible' (IE slightly less efficient).

If you get a bike with brake levers like that, DON'T use the handles that run along the tops of the bars. They are known as 'suicide' levers, and often don't work well, requiring a lot of pull for little braking. If you can, take them off. You can get a modern lever arrangement that fits into the cable run in that position, works much better. (It is handy to have brakes to hand there, for when you are not on the drops (right down) or the hoods (hands resting on the brake lever housings) but those old levers can't really be relied on.)


*I was once in town with my Galaxy (male frame) and an old chap came up as I was unlocking it and said "Is that your bike?" I said yes, and he said, "But how do you get... " and paused embarrassed as he realised he was about to say 'your leg over?'. I swung my leg over the saddle, said "like this!" and rode off. I think he really thought ladies were incapable of that sort of action...


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## pedaling (14 May 2009)

Yep, pretty is what I thought. I think I ought to change my methods for choosing bikes to be a bit more practical 

Don't have any hip problems - I used to ride a fair bit (horse riding, I mean) and I hike and run at the moment so all is good. I'm fairly mobile/ flexible! Like the anecdote - I can imagine that!

Thanks for the info on the brakes. Something to think about. I suspect that bike would be too big for me anyway though.



Arch said:


> That's pretty... Can't help you with the size issue, that's one of my blind spots - I would just say though: (I know you highlighted that one for size, but it reminded me)
> 
> A ladies frame is ok, but you don't need it unless you wear a skirt a lot, or you have trouble with your hip to make swinging your leg over difficult*. A ladies frame will be more 'flexible' (IE slightly less efficient).
> 
> ...


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## Arch (14 May 2009)

Suicide levers were quite common for a while, so a second hand bike with drops may well have them - just thought it best to warn you....

I always like to think of the old chap in my story wandering off muttering about 'modern gals' or something... That's another one of those things people don't properly think about - the assumption is that ladies need a special frame, when these days, so many of us never wear skirts! Dear god, we'll be voting next...


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## Crackle (14 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> You think it's okay getting a hybrid then? I think touring bikes look better, but maybe that's just me! Hybrid seems a bit like mountain bike made to take luggage from my POV!



Sorry, thought that was a different bike, didn't look properly.


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## Randochap (14 May 2009)

montage said:


> Some of the old "racers" are far more forgiving, due to their geomatry + steel makeup. Some of their positions are aggressive, but some of them have less aggressive positions, making is perfectly possible to make them into touring bikes.



That's right. "Racing bikes" mass-marketed in from 60s through 80s were mostly long-wheelbase bikes with roomy rear triangles and had medium-reach caliper brakes that could accommodate tyres up to 38mm or so.

They were, in fact, what we would distinguish today as touring or sport-touring bikes.

My old Nishiki Landau is a perfect example (see it on "My Bikes" page). It was their top of the line "racer." I toured and commuted on it for more than 20 years.

See the VeloWeb Touring Bikes page for advice on suitable bikes for touring and the new Bike Fit page for sizing and fitting advice.


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## pedaling (28 May 2009)

Reviving thread again...

Would this potentially be okay? I don't understand what size 52cm means heightwise? I am 5"3, inside leg roughly 28"...

There are some developments on the who-is-going-with-me-or-not front - one of my friends, who is Dutch, a guy, and has worked in bike shops (triple yay) might be coming with me. In which case I would not only have a great time (since he is as lovely as they get) but not have to worry too much about repairs since he could sort it out...

Not sure I'll be going for as long as planned now though. Looks like I might be going to visit someone abroad for several weeks/ possible months. BUT might want to take my bike there for day trips etc.

Or this? But maybe a bit small for me?


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## montage (28 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> Reviving thread again...
> 
> Would this potentially be okay? I don't understand what size 52cm means heightwise? I am 5"3, inside leg roughly 28"...
> 
> ...


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## montage (28 May 2009)

the first bike you linked looks good  it is what I meant by "racer" .... aslong as the gears are easy enough then I would be very tempted!


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## pedaling (29 May 2009)

montage said:


> the first bike you linked looks good  it is what I meant by "racer" .... aslong as the gears are easy enough then I would be very tempted!



Asked the person selling more about it and they said they don't reckon it'll stand up to what I want...

So...

Have been looking at a few more, although I am beginning to think maybe it is not a good idea at all buying on ebay, since if I haven't tried it, how do I know it's comfy/ fits okay? And what if it is fake/ something not working and I don't notice?

Is there an easy way to work out if it's the right height? I've seen all the photos etc and diagrams but there does not seem to be an easy way...

Raleigh Randonneur

Trek Hybrid

Falcon Bike


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## Crackle (29 May 2009)

Pedaling that Randoneur is gorgeous, it should fit you too. The first one you linked to is not so great, the Trek is a good bike and the Falcon is OK but not great.

I think the Randoneur will be friction shift i.e. not indexed but that's what I rode for years with no problems. I doubt it would be economical to think about STI's but you could ride that as it is.

Bid on the Trek and Randonneur.


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## pedaling (29 May 2009)

Crackle said:


> Pedaling that Randoneur is gorgeous, it should fit you too. The first one you linked to is not so great, the Trek is a good bike and the Falcon is OK but not great.
> 
> I think the Randoneur will be friction shift i.e. not indexed but that's what I rode for years with no problems. I doubt it would be economical to think about STI's but you could ride that as it is.
> 
> Bid on the Trek and Randonneur.



What are STI's when we're talking about bikes?

Thanks for the advice. Yes, Randonneur looks very pretty, doesn't it! I just worry - I mean, shoot, what if it's too big? Back on ebay I guess.

You think Randonneur over Trek? I do, but that's just because I think the Randonneur looks better and I don't really like the design of hybrids... but then again I ride some kind of weird mountain bike atm, so who am I to talk!


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## Crackle (29 May 2009)

STI's are the brakes with the gear lever incorporated as well aka







They are indexed like you mtn bike gears, so one click is one gear. Friction shifters are not. You move the lever back until it changes gear, much more feel involved and changing into the gear you need in advance is recommended as they don't change as well under pedaling pressure (no pun intended ).

The Randoneur is not just nice it's gorgeous. The Trek is good too, despite it being a flat bar hybrid it's much more road than mtn in it's geometry.

Size: Well I ride the same size bike now and I have a 29inch inside leg and relatively short arms in conjunction to my body, sort of an inverted Gibbon. You being female, you probably have longer arms and legs in proportion to your trunk, therefore I'd say it will fit.


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## Arch (29 May 2009)

I've had a bike with friction shifting (it was indexed, but that went wrong and it was one of the shofters where you could turn it to friction), and I really enjoyed the 'feeling it into gear' - in practice you actually learn to self-index, knowing just how much to shift.

Just looked at the links and yes, that randonneur is lovely!


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## pedaling (29 May 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. I see what you mean. Sure I'd adapt to whichever gears, if that's the only option!

I got the raleigh out again in hope and moved the seat to where it would need to be for it to feel comfortable... and I measured it too...

From the crank (the middle bit, where the pedal is attached) to the top of my saddle is approximately 24.5" and from crank to bottom of saddle is 22"... Maybe that gives you some idea? This is with my tiptoes just touching the floor, but I prefer this to feeling 'squished' on a bike.

To do this I had to move the seatpost way past the minimum level though, so it's just to try it out! I'm not sure if I got a new headset it might be okay? Or maybe it's still a bit small for my arms? I'm not sure.

Do you mind me asking btw, what would be your tops for that randonneur?


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## Arch (29 May 2009)

I can't give you a top price for the bike - my top price for anything just now is a fiver due to budgetary constraints. I think I'd have to say, have a top budget in mind and don't go beyond that, and certainly watch out you don't end up paying for secondhand, the sort of money that might get you something adequate new...

And I'm hopeless with bike sizing, sorry!

Someone else will be more helpful...


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## Crackle (29 May 2009)

pedaling said:


> From the crank (the middle bit, where the pedal is attached) to the top of my saddle is approximately 24.5" and from crank to bottom of saddle is 22"... Maybe that gives you some idea? This is with my tiptoes just touching the floor, but I prefer this to feeling 'squished' on a bike.



OK I'm not quite sure if that measurement is valid but if we use it as a rough indicator then my own saddle height is a couple of inches below my inside leg. When I'm on the seat I can't put my feet, even my tippy toes, on the floor without leaning the bike. If you can then that seat is too low.

As an oft used rough guide, when sitting on the seat you should be able to rest your heel on the pedal with the pedal at it's lowest position and your leg should be straight. If you do this and it's bent, the saddle is too low.

Now that Randoneur frame is 20.5 inches. With your inside leg the seat post will still have an inch or two adjustment in it with that saddle. Choose a different saddle profile and you might gain another inch. So, it will fit you I think but it's at the top end of your range but then most bikes of that style will be.

I'd like to know how you go with that test above and I just need to check the stand over height on my bike, even if you can ride the Randoneur, if you can't stand over it it won't do you.

Take a look at the Trek and note how the top tube slopes down at the back, this both makes the standover height lower and gives more adjustment on the seat height.

Some more input on size from others wouldn't go amiss just now.


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## Crackle (29 May 2009)

Pedaling, reluctantly, after checking mine I have to say I think it's slightly too big for you. I think standover height is the issue. Also turns out on my bike I can just tippy toes the ground from the seat with a slight lean.

That Trek is not too far from you though is it? Why don't you go and see it.


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