# Sportive "races"



## brokenflipflop (5 Nov 2011)

Just read about some bird called Susan Hall on page 22 of December issue of Cycling Active. Apparently she's an award winning hairstylist and cyclist.

She said in the article that she entered the Northern Rock Sportive in Northumberland and was "eighth fastest female out of 270 as well as being faster than most of the men in the race"

Ok so she's a big-head that thinks a sportive is a race and she gets pleasure out of thinking she's faster than other people who quite possibly weren't racing. But why wouldn't Cycling Active recognize this faux pas and either put her straight or leave it out.

Women and Cycling mags.....You can't trust them


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## srw (5 Nov 2011)

Just read about some tit on cyclechat. He's got a bee in his misogynistic (ask a woman to look it up for you, there's a dear) bonnet about the difference between racing and cycling quickly and is making himself look a prannock.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (5 Nov 2011)

Ok she may be a big head but sportives do have a competetive element so if she did finish 8th out of 270 you cant deny her that .


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## yello (5 Nov 2011)

I hope that's your misguided attempt at some kind of ironic humour brokenflipflop. Some pretty questionable attitudes there which ever way you spin it.


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## addictfreak (5 Nov 2011)

When I enter a sportive, my aim is to enjoy the ride but also its a challenge to get round the course as fast as i can.


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## Zoiders (5 Nov 2011)

Saying you won a sportive is like saying you won the Battle Of Naseby at a Sealed Knot re-enactment.


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## brokenflipflop (5 Nov 2011)

srw said:


> Just read about some tit on cyclechat. He's got a bee in his misogynistic (ask a woman to look it up for you, there's a dear) bonnet about the difference between racing and cycling quickly and is making himself look a prannock.



OOh bitchy. Split-arse for sure ?


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## brokenflipflop (5 Nov 2011)

addictfreak said:


> When I enter a sportive, my aim is to enjoy the ride but also its a challenge to get round the course as fast as i can.



Really? I've been mis-informed. I didn't think speed, quick, racing, placings etc were the name of the game. 

Always learning. 

I forgot spare rib ticklers don't like the phrase birds. I'm sorry, I come from a place up north and mix with the wrong sort.

I'm working on it.


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2011)

I think if people genuinely think it's a race then these sorts of events on open roads will soon disappear.

They won't be able to get insurance.


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## John the Monkey (5 Nov 2011)

addictfreak said:


> When I enter a sportive, my aim is to enjoy the ride but also its a challenge to get round the course as fast as i can.



Eh, each to their own. We were quite proud that our cake stop time had dipped below the hour mark (slightly) on our last one.


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## PoweredByVeg (5 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> OOh bitchy. Split-arse for sure ?



Blimey! Haven't heard that phrase for a while


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## brokenflipflop (5 Nov 2011)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Blimey! Haven't heard that phrase for a while



I play team squash and in the league we play in is almost exclusively blokes. Very occasionally the other team has a female in their team. No-one wants to play the girl - if they do, and lose, they're walking home and will have the piss taken out of them forever.

Invariably these ladies are very competitive and in squash you may know about lets and strokes etc and the ladies really do push the boundaries of fair play. The aim when you play them is to beat them, but do it "nicely". In the 5 years I've been playing competitively I've only played a girl once - I won thank God but it's customary for the loser to buy the winner a drink. Anyway, she was in her early 20's and a big shot in regional female squash circles - didn't take kindly to being whipped by a middle aged crap squash keep fit fanatic and my tactic of keeping the rallies going forever pissed her right off. She saw her arse and buzzed off without getting me a drink ( but I did get a lift home



)

The other old farts on my team refer to all women as split-arses. It's not a nice phrase really is it, but we must try and keep the old language alive to fend off this patwa thing that's creeping up north. Innit !


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## Fifelad (5 Nov 2011)

It was a standard phrase when I was in the RAF


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## PoweredByVeg (5 Nov 2011)

Yeah, I heard that phrase when I was an apprentice nearly 30 yrs ago 

Another choice one, which was a metaphor for hands, was "c**t hooks", as in "get your c**t hooks on this"!


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## JonnyBlade (5 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Really? I've been mis-informed. I didn't think speed, quick, racing, placings etc were the name of the game.
> 
> Always learning.
> 
> ...




I enter sportivs and compete against myself. My aim is to get around as quick as I possibly can. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of riders were trying to do the same.

Posted 2nd quickest in the Twinnings Sailsbury 100 but it's not a race. Still I was chuffed to nuts with what I achieved


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## JonnyBlade (5 Nov 2011)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Blimey! Haven't heard that phrase for a while



Navy boys use it a lot


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## Fifelad (6 Nov 2011)

Rug Rats (kids), Stinkies(WRAF), Scaley Brats (kids of servicemen),Beer chits(money),self-gratifying Chariot (bed) Pongos(a member of the Army) to give a few examples.................


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## theclaud (6 Nov 2011)

srw said:


> Just read about some tit on cyclechat. He's got a bee in his misogynistic (ask a woman to look it up for you, there's a dear) bonnet about the difference between racing and cycling quickly and is making himself look a prannock.


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## MissTillyFlop (8 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Really? I've been mis-informed. I didn't think speed, quick, racing, placings etc were the name of the game.
> 
> Always learning.
> 
> ...



Please do, I expect you to have moved to Bournemouth within the week.


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## oldroadman (8 Nov 2011)

Bit of confusion here - a sportive is not a race. Therefore you can hardly claim a "placing". Whether you want to go fast is up to you, just bear in mind it's not a race. Some of the riding I've seen in these events will get the attention of the authorities eventually, to Joe Public if someone has a number on anywhere, they are "racing". Expect legislation to come down if the trend of 500+ people thinking they are in a race a being daft continues. Plus of course, there is an effect on REAL RACING, which is very highly legislated, and could be pushed back years if certain sportive riders and organisers don't sort themselves out. I have heard from an "inside" contact that a lot of police forces are looking very hard at mass participation events, with a view to restrictions.


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## VamP (8 Nov 2011)

oldroadman said:


> Bit of confusion here - a sportive is not a race. Therefore you can hardly claim a "placing". Whether you want to go fast is up to you, just bear in mind it's not a race. Some of the riding I've seen in these events will get the attention of the authorities eventually, to Joe Public if someone has a number on anywhere, they are "racing". Expect legislation to come down if the trend of 500+ people thinking they are in a race a being daft continues. Plus of course, there is an effect on REAL RACING, which is very highly legislated, and could be pushed back years if certain sportive riders and organisers don't sort themselves out. I have heard from an "inside" contact that a lot of police forces are looking very hard at mass participation events, with a view to restrictions.



Yeah, it's not a race, but a good percentage of participants think it is.

The format encourages this to be fair, with timing chips etc. I always view the organisers proclamation of ''it's not a race'' as a bit of a cop-out from responsibility should anything go wrong.

It's also interesting that these events attract fundamentally larger numbers than 'real' races. It really is not that hard to get a racing licence, so why are all the wannabe racers not doing real races?


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## JonnyBlade (8 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> Yeah, it's not a race, but a good percentage of participants think it is.
> 
> The format encourages this to be fair, with timing chips etc. I always view the organisers proclamation of ''it's not a race'' as a bit of a cop-out from responsibility should anything go wrong.
> 
> It's also interesting that these events attract fundamentally larger numbers than 'real' races. It really is not that hard to get a racing licence, so why are all the wannabe racers not doing real races?



I think you're correct in that they do promote a race atmosphere. The difference though in ability between sportivs and road races is apparent. I do wonder sometimes why some can't leave others be? If you want to 'race' it then why not. It's up to the rider as to whether you make it a 'race' or not. A sportiv is surely there for all to do whatever they please?If I pay my money it's up to me how I tackle the ride. I can either bimble along with the masses or 'race' against the clock. 
For me, all that's important is for rides to continue to attend these events no matter how you plan to ride it. Makes a nice change from hours of solo miles IMO


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## Bluebell72 (8 Nov 2011)

Fifelad said:


> It was a standard phrase when I was in the RAF




So were the terms 'wog' and 'paki' when I was in the Prison Service, but they're unacceptable now, and would have people squirming in the way I was when I read your post. 
Wholly unneccesary and inappropriate.


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## YahudaMoon (8 Nov 2011)

JonnyBlade said:


> I think you're correct in that they do promote a race atmosphere. The difference though in ability between sportivs and road races is apparent. I do wonder sometimes why some can't leave others be? If you want to 'race' it then why not. It's up to the rider as to whether you make it a 'race' or not. A sportiv is surely there for all to do whatever they please?If I pay my money it's up to me how I tackle the ride. I can either bimble along with the masses or 'race' against the clock.
> For me, all that's important is for rides to continue to attend these events no matter how you plan to ride it. Makes a nice change from hours of solo miles IMO



How can you race it if it's a sportive ? (you just think your racing 

Same in audax. Its a audax. Not a race.


Difference between audax and sportive though, audax has competitiveness with club affiliation. 

Sportives serve no purpose as they don't have any club affiliation only profit from private organisations unlike club TT and audax


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## fimm (8 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> It's also interesting that these events attract fundamentally larger numbers than 'real' races. It really is not that hard to get a racing licence, so why are all the wannabe racers not doing real races?


But it is. You have to be a member of a club and a member of British cycling and you have to know your category and if you're female I really don't know what you have to do. 

A sportive you can turn up and do. No club membership, no categories, no complications.


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## brokenflipflop (8 Nov 2011)

So is it a race or isn't it ? 

Half the people on here are chuffed at their "placing" in a sportive while the other half have been blissfully unaware they were in a race or testing themselves.

I need to know for next time so I can nip in front of the old geezer on the finish line and come in second to last instead of last.


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## YahudaMoon (8 Nov 2011)

fimm said:


> But it is. You have to be a member of a club and a member of British cycling and you have to know your category and if you're female I really don't know what you have to do.
> 
> A sportive you can turn up and do. No club membership, no categories, no complications.



Avererage cost of a sportive £35

Club membership per annum (my club) £10

BC Membership is between per annum £10 and £35

Mmm ?

Entering club events £ peanuts in most cases


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## YahudaMoon (8 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> So is it a race or isn't it ?
> 
> Half the people on here are chuffed at their "placing" in a sportive while the other half have been blissfully unaware they were in a race or testing themselves.
> 
> I need to know for next time so I can nip in front of the old geezer on the finish line and come in second to last instead of last.



No its not a race.

Same as a audax aint. If you was to say you won the audax event on the day you would be the laughing stock of the cycling circuit. 

Same as why when I hear people saying they won an sportive (makes me laugh) and one of the main reasons I will never enter one along with the cost

4 sportives in one month would cost me about £100 + or over £1200 + a year. Thats why I do audax club cycling TT


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## brokenflipflop (8 Nov 2011)

Well that was my point when first posted. I read about that bird who "competed" in a sportive and as I assumed they weren't in any way competitive I asked the question.

I've only done 2 of them but when I account for the porridge, cups of tea, bottle, food stops, drinks, potions, gels, bars, and then pie and peas at the end I didn't think it was that bad for £20. I can understand your point though if you just want to cycle and keep expense down right low.

I'm pretty new to this but I've found some old footy mates who I discovered do a bit of cycling so I'm giving up the sportive thing for the time being as I enjoy going out with them and on me todd.


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## ianrauk (8 Nov 2011)

Brokenflipflop, you are getting very tiresome with your misogyny. Do yourself a favour, give it a rest ok.


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## Baggy (8 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I'm pretty new to this but I've found some old footy mates who I discovered do a bit of cycling so I'm giving up the sportive thing for the time being as I enjoy going out with them and on me todd.


Susan Hall beat your time, didn't she?


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## JonnyBlade (9 Nov 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> How can you race it if it's a sportive ? (you just think your racing
> 
> Same in audax. Its a audax. Not a race.
> 
> ...



What's in a name? If a marathon is classed as a race why do some walk? You can race against the clock it's as simple as that. The time is only important, or not, to the individual rider. 
I don't suppose you are one of those club snobs I've heard about are you  Only joking




but I do believe you can make any bike ride into whatever you wish. The club scene is not for everyone. In my running days I raced often to a decent standard although I resisted joining running clubs because I felt it removed my spontaneous outlook. I still spent many days and nights racing against the clock.


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## Little yellow Brompton (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I play team squash and in the league we play in is almost exclusively blokes. Very occasionally the other team has a female in their team. No-one wants to play the girl - if they do, and lose, they're walking home and will have the piss taken out of them forever.
> 
> Invariably these ladies are very competitive and in squash you may know about lets and strokes etc and the ladies really do push the boundaries of fair play. The aim when you play them is to beat them, but do it "nicely". In the 5 years I've been playing competitively I've only played a girl once - I won thank God but it's customary for the loser to buy the winner a drink. Anyway, she was in her early 20's and a big shot in regional female squash circles - didn't take kindly to being whipped by a middle aged crap squash keep fit fanatic and my tactic of keeping the rallies going forever pissed her right off. She saw her arse and buzzed off without getting me a drink ( but I did get a lift home
> 
> ...



Women, without exception are not gentlemen!


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## YahudaMoon (9 Nov 2011)

This is my favourite thread at the moment


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## YahudaMoon (9 Nov 2011)

JonnyBlade said:


> What's in a name? If a marathon is classed as a race why do some walk? You can race against the clock it's as simple as that. The time is only important, or not, to the individual rider.
> I don't suppose you are one of those club snobs I've heard about are you  Only joking
> 
> 
> ...



Yes I am  LOL


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## brokenflipflop (9 Nov 2011)

[QUOTE 1603693"]
Yeah, and at the same time don't spout a load of _Lord of the Rings_ bollox as you did with me 'For Sale' thread regarding my Ultegra chainset.

People thought they were dealing with some nutjob with a life size cut out of Tolkien in their living room who masturbates in a Smegel outfit. As a result you scared away any prospective buyers, and the chainset still has not been sold and I'm pissed off to say the least.
[/quote]

That was Goldmember, not Smegel. 

How does itssshhhh Gooooold scare away prospective buyers ?

If the people on here get their knickers in a twist when I say the word "bird" then I'm pretty sure they would ignore me when I come out with itsshhhh goooold. Face it dude, noone wants a gold chainset





And before anyone googles a posh descriptive word that describes someone who makes fun of gold chainsets then don't, because I actually like gold chainsets.


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## John the Monkey (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> If the people on here get their knickers in a twist when I say the word "bird" then I'm pretty sure they would ignore me when I come out with itsshhhh goooold. Face it dude, noone wants a gold chainset



I don't think I have trouble with my underwear when I hear it, it's more that I briefly think I'm in the 1970s again, possibly dressed in brown velour.

Like a less stylish Sam Tyler, or something. "Am I mad? Dreaming? Or just in one of Brokenflipflops threads?"


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## VamP (9 Nov 2011)

OK, here's a question for you all: How many sportive riders don't check where they ended up in the timesheets? Not many I would wager. It is definitely a 'competition' and I do not believe anyone who signs up to a sportive approaches it just as they would a Sunday bimble. Otherwise why pay ££?

I don't have a problem with sportives BTW. I have done a few myself, and am sure to do more in the future. And I totally set myself a goal for the time I want to ride them in.

But I think that racing is easy enough to get into, and more people should try it. It's a more 'real', more grassroots kind of an activity, and one which is core to the sport of cycling. And a lot of fun


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## VamP (9 Nov 2011)

JonnyBlade said:


> I think you're correct in that they do promote a race atmosphere. The difference though in ability between sportivs and road races is apparent. I do wonder sometimes why some can't leave others be? If you want to 'race' it then why not. It's up to the rider as to whether you make it a 'race' or not. A sportiv is surely there for all to do whatever they please?If I pay my money it's up to me how I tackle the ride. I can either bimble along with the masses or 'race' against the clock.
> For me, all that's important is for rides to continue to attend these events no matter how you plan to ride it. Makes a nice change from hours of solo miles IMO



Yep. Can't disagree with any of that.


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## VamP (9 Nov 2011)

fimm said:


> But it is. You have to be a member of a club and a member of British cycling and you have to know your category and if you're female I really don't know what you have to do.
> 
> A sportive you can turn up and do. No club membership, no categories, no complications.



You don't have to be a member of a club, you can be unattached. Cyclocross races you can just turn up and get a day licence, same with many time trials. If you join BC you automatically become Cat 4. Easy. If you are female - dunno, I'm not


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## John the Monkey (9 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> OK, here's a question for you all: How many sportive riders don't check where they ended up in the timesheets? Not many I would wager. It is definitely a 'competition' and I do not believe anyone who signs up to a sportive approaches it just as they would a Sunday bimble. Otherwise why pay ££?



I didn't for last year's Tour Ride - I had my bike computer on, so I knew what time I'd ridden. Why ride it? Well, different routes to my normal ones, and decent signposting, so no need to focus on navigation as well. 

We had a look this time around, just to see if we'd spent less time chatting at the feeds (we had - RESULT!)



> But I think that racing is easy enough to get into, and more people should try it. It's a more 'real', more grassroots kind of an activity, and one which is core to the sport of cycling. And a lot of fun



Not my bag, personally.


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## lukesdad (9 Nov 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> How can you race it if it's a sportive ? (you just think your racing
> 
> Same in audax. Its a audax. Not a race.
> 
> ...




You really need to get your facts straight before you post. Many clubs and charities organize sportives. The proceeds of ours are split between club and local charities. Our sportive subsidises our street races by the way. If the sportive riders did nt come, the races would nt take place.

Off the top of my head i can think of 6 sportives in SW wales that are organized this way and only 2 that are not.

The reason riders may choose to do sportives instead of racing is, because of attitudes similar to yours.


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## freecyclist (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> So is it a race or isn't it ?
> 
> Half the people on here are chuffed at their "placing" in a sportive while the other half have been blissfully unaware they were in a race or testing themselves.
> 
> I need to know for next time so I can nip in front of the old geezer on the finish line and come in second to last instead of last.




It isnt technically a race but has a strong competeive element.
Nice Pussy btw.


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## rich p (9 Nov 2011)

Sportives, or sportifs, started on the continent and are most definitely raced over there. Some ex-pros make a decent income out of them too, but that doesn't stop the vast majority of participants doing them either as a personal challenge or a day out.

Think London Marathon. Paula Radcliffe racing everyone, me racing myself and the bloke dressed as a baboon having a day out.


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## Fnaar (9 Nov 2011)

I'm not the least bit interested in racing myself (I like watching cycle races though) as I know my own limitations... however, I set myself distance and average speed targets, and in a sportive I like to see how quickly I can do it, but allow myself sensible stoppage time. Suits me fine


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## Fnaar (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> ...and the bloke dressed as a baboon having a day out.



I wasn't dressed as a baboon... I just happen to have a massive red arse, OK?


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## freecyclist (9 Nov 2011)

Fnaar said:


> I wasn't dressed as a baboon... I just happen to have a massive red arse, OK?



Wont ask how you got the red arse and the purple helmet.


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Think London Marathon. Paula Radcliffe racing everyone, me racing myself and the bloke dressed as a baboon having a day out.



he beat you didn't he


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## brokenflipflop (9 Nov 2011)

Ok. So the individual cyclist in the Sportive decides if it's a day out, a personal challenge or a bit of a race. I get that and it seems reasonable. 

But, if someone like the attractive lady in the CA article says she came 7th fastest women and beat most of the men she's assuming and the article is confirming that it is some kind of race. I think the article should have included a caveat stating that some of the people she "beat" were just on a day out or just testing themselves.

And I'm not bothered because it's a women, I always have a smile and a wink for nice young ladies.


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## rich p (9 Nov 2011)

Not quite but I swore I'd retire if I ever got overtaken by a bloke carrying a tray of drinks.


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## snailracer (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Not quite but I swore I'd retire if I ever got overtaken by a bloke carrying a tray of drinks.


Depends on what's in the drinks.


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## VamP (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Not quite but I swore I'd retire if I ever got overtaken by a bloke carrying a tray of drinks.



I got beat by a bloke dressed as a snowman in a 10k race once  


He was really fast, man!


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## 400bhp (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Sportives, or sportifs, started on the continent and are most definitely raced over there. Some ex-pros make a decent income out of them too, but that doesn't stop the vast majority of participants doing them either as a personal challenge or a day out.
> 
> *Think London Marathon. Paula Radcliffe racing everyone, me racing myself and the bloke dressed as a baboon having a day out.*



On closed roads.


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## rich p (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> On closed roads.




and your point is?


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Ok. So the individual cyclist in the Sportive decides if it's a day out, a personal challenge or a bit of a race. I get that and it seems reasonable.
> 
> But, if someone like the *attractive lady* in the CA article says she came 7th fastest women and beat most of the men she's assuming and the article is confirming that it is some kind of race. I think the article should have included a caveat stating that some of the people she "beat" were just on a day out or just testing themselves.
> 
> And I'm not bothered because it's a women, I always have a smile and a wink for nice young ladies.



is it better or worse because you consider her attractive?


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## theclaud (9 Nov 2011)

MacB said:


> is it better or worse because you consider her attractive?



Don't worry Mac - he hasn't got a problem with birds ladies women. We know this because he said so...


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## BrumJim (9 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> I got beat by a bloke dressed as a snowman in a 10k race once
> 
> 
> He was really fast, man!




Just watched the coverage of the Birmingham Half Marathon (did I tell you I ran in it, and completed the course in 1 hr 46 11s  ). There was an elite athlete doing it in a banana costume, and managed to keep pace with the eventual women's winner for at least half the course. 
Her comment at the end? "At least I beat the bloke in the banana costume!". Forget winning, PB on a tough course, etc. Banana whipped, so happy!


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## 400bhp (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> and your point is?



You can race in such events.


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## brokenflipflop (9 Nov 2011)

MacB said:


> is it better or worse because you consider her attractive?



She is quite a pretty little thing but the point was I didn't understand the etiquette of cycling Sportives. 

Reading through the replies it appears I'm not alone. Perhaps in my opening post I shouldn't have mentioned that it was Adams spare rib in the article.


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## John the Monkey (9 Nov 2011)

BrumJim said:


> Her comment at the end? "At least I beat the bloke in the banana costume!". Forget winning, PB on a tough course, etc. Banana whipped, so happy!



Or she was having a self deprecating joke, which is how that comes across to me?


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> She is quite a pretty little thing but the point was I didn't understand the etiquette of cycling Sportives.
> 
> Reading through the replies it appears I'm not alone. Perhaps in my opening post I shouldn't have mentioned that it was *Adams spare rib* in the article.



come on if you're going to try and troll by being deliberately offensive you can do better than that. Or are you one of these that's going to try to instigate an argument around the merits, or lack therefof, of various terms and PC gawn mad?

Though I'll give you this, I can't work out if you're really thick and just don't get it or if you are of middling intelligence but think you're doing some smart trolling.


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## brokenflipflop (9 Nov 2011)

MacB said:


> come on if you're going to try and troll by being deliberately offensive you can do better than that. Or are you one of these that's going to try to instigate an argument around the merits, or lack therefof, of various terms and PC gawn mad?
> 
> Though I'll give you this, I can't work out if you're really thick and just don't get it or if you are of middling intelligence but think you're doing some smart trolling.



I don't know what trolling is and I am really thick. I hope I've cleared that up, which is more than can be said about how confused we all appear to be about this sportive thing.


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I don't know what trolling is and I am really thick. I hope I've cleared that up, which is more than can be said about how confused we all appear to be about this sportive thing.



Ok, that'll be middling intelligence then

There is no confusion, ride what you want and describe it in any manner you see fit...simples


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

1603728 said:


> See that word you've used there Al, "ride".



I might surprise you and turn out for the speedy ride to the coast in March - 10mph average wasn't it?


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## John the Monkey (9 Nov 2011)

MacB said:


> I might surprise you and turn out for the speedy ride to the coast in March - 10mph average wasn't it?



10! They'll get you for that furious cycling, if you don't watch out, MacB.


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## MacB (9 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> 10! They'll get you for that furious cycling, if you don't watch out, MacB.



 I know, I know but the effort to shift my bulk at 10mph is quite considerable, maybe I need to get on the back of a tandem with one of these speedy folks on the front


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## John the Monkey (9 Nov 2011)

MacB said:


> I know, I know but the effort to shift my bulk at 10mph is quite considerable, maybe I need to get on the back of a tandem with one of these speedy folks on the front



Oh lord, don't do that - do you know, they sometimes only have ONE CAKE STOP per ride? 

UNBELIEVABLE. And they won't have packed a thermos.


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## snailracer (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Sportives, or sportifs, started on the continent and are *most definitely raced* over there. Some ex-pros make a decent income out of them too, but that doesn't stop the vast majority of participants doing them either as a personal challenge or a day out.
> 
> Think London Marathon. Paula Radcliffe racing everyone, me racing myself and the bloke dressed as a baboon having a day out.


If you look at the various dictionary definitions of the word "sportive", though, they don't support the idea of serious racing at all.


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## Fiona N (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Really? I've been mis-informed. I didn't think speed, quick, racing, placings etc were the name of the game.



Probably somewhere in the thread someone else has already said it but many continental sportives are 'officially' races - the Etape de Tour has a winner as do all the big Italian Gran Fondo events and winning one is prestigous too.


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## rich p (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> You can race in such events.



You can race in any event though, that's the point. Many marathons are run on open roads and perceived as races by the elite down to a charity jaunt for others.




snailracer said:


> If you look at the various dictionary definitions of the word "sportive", though, they don't support the idea of serious racing at all.



I was originally referring to continental sportifs from which ours derived. The rules may say one thing but you can bet your mortgage on the fact that the elite cyclists will be treating sportives on open roads as their race.


anyway, that's my lot. To be honest I feel slightly grubby trying to argue a coherent case on this thread given the idiocy of the OP.


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## snailracer (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> You can race in any event though, that's the point. Many marathons are run on open roads and perceived as races by the elite down to a charity jaunt for others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha, some riders even treat their commute as a race


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## BrumJim (9 Nov 2011)

Well, not me for a start. Honestly. It just looks like it....


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## VamP (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> On closed roads.



Loads of 'real' bike races, and virtually all time trials are run on open roads too. Tri- and duathlons. In fact road closures are pretty damn rare, and only really happen for the most important events.


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## brokenflipflop (9 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> anyway, that's my lot. To be honest I feel slightly grubby trying to argue a coherent case on this thread given the idiocy of the OP.









Anyway. Have we established if a Sportive is a race yet ?


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## Norm (9 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Just read about some bird called Susan Hall on page 22 of December issue of Cycling Active. Apparently she's an award winning hairstylist and cyclist.
> 
> She said in the article that she entered the Northern Rock Sportive in Northumberland and was "eighth fastest female out of 270 as well as being faster than most of the men in the race"
> 
> ...


 It's a shame that they didn't print a misogynist-friendly photo above the article on the previous page, then, as that might have drawn your attention to the first closed-roads sportive. 

Sportives are like marathons in many respects. Whether you come 11,000th or 11,001st in the London marathon doesn't mean much as you would be amongst the jogging herds, but coming 8th is impressively high up the list and she would almost certainly have been amongst some competitive cyclists.


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## 400bhp (9 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> Loads of 'real' bike races, and virtually all time trials are run on open roads too. Tri- and duathlons. In fact road closures are pretty damn rare, and only really happen for the most important events.



Lets not compare apples with pairs.

I was responding to an incorrect analogy with sportives and marathons.


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## 400bhp (9 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> Sportives are like marathons in many respects. Whether you come 11,000th or 11,001st in the London marathon doesn't mean much as you would be amongst the jogging herds, but coming 8th is impressively high up the list and she would almost certainly have been amongst some competitive cyclists.



Sorry Norm, but they are not.


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## Norm (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> Sorry Norm, but they are not.


Do you want to think about anything which may justify that position, or will you just leave it as a meaningless contradiction?


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## freecyclist (9 Nov 2011)

VamP said:


> Loads of 'real' bike races, and virtually all time trials are run on open roads too. Tri- and duathlons. In fact road closures are pretty damn rare, and only really happen for the most important events.



+1 Even Fred Whitton, arguably the best placed sportive for road closures (due to it's popularity, and dangerous nature of some of the descents) has failed to make any inroads into that particular area.

Most actual races are held on open roads, closing roads in the UK is a major, major undertaking. Surrey Classic this year is a great example of what we're talking about. Thousands of people involved.

Obviously sportives aren't races, but a lot of participants treat them thus, and the standard of riding is often shocking. I guarantee any Sunday group ride is far far better behaved and organised than pretty much any sportive.
My 2 penneth


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## 400bhp (9 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> Do you want to think about anything which may justify that position, or will you just leave it as a meaningless contradiction?



Nope, CBA as I'm not spelling it out.


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## theclaud (9 Nov 2011)

1603745 said:


> You've learned a lot about sportives in the last week then?



It's verging on the miraculous...


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## Norm (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> Nope, CBA as I'm not spelling it out.


 But you do feel the need to post your opinion half a dozen times on this thread.

I'm sure you'll understand that opinion not gaining much credence.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (9 Nov 2011)

1603748 said:


> Praise the Lord



Hallelujah. Praise be to god and let gods love shine forth and radiate on all my cycling brothers and sisters.
Thank you my brother Adrian. I feel your love.


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## brokenflipflop (10 Nov 2011)

Didn't understand much of that. Just nipping out for my Sun before work. I'll ask Steve and Fred at work, they might not know the answer but at least I'll understand them when they say what the ***** a Sportive.


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## 400bhp (10 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> But you do feel the need to post your opinion half a dozen times on this thread.
> 
> I'm sure you'll understand that opinion not gaining much credence.



Agree, don't know why I bothered.


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## VamP (10 Nov 2011)

theclaud said:


> It's verging on the miraculous...



It's also a word for word cut and paste from my earlier post on the same subject. This is one seriously disturbed puppy.


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## Moss (10 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> I think if people genuinely think it's a race then these sorts of events on open roads will soon disappear.
> 
> They won't be able to get insurance.



I'm sure more people would participate in Sportive rides if : 1, The entery fee was a little less!! Some of these events are a money making exersize! £65, entry for some of the sportive events!

2, if people stopped reffering to them as "Un-Official" road races! Although I can understand the challenge to be first past the post in any type of cycling event.


Lets remember that organised cycling rides are for everyone, not just the elite riders and amateur road racing types, give a thought for those cyclists that see it as a challenge just to complete the course.


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## Norm (10 Nov 2011)

That sounds like a marathon.


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## John the Monkey (10 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> That sounds like a marathon.



They're called "Snickers" now, Norm. And you're going to HATE what they did to Opal Fruits.


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## Lard Armstrong (10 Nov 2011)

Yes this discussion is all very good, but what I want to know is, what is a 'prannock' ?


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## Fran143 (10 Nov 2011)

Don't know what a "prannock" is but you just put me in the notion for a Tunnocks tea cake.....cheers!


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## addictfreak (10 Nov 2011)

I think the word 'race' is being mis-used by some (maybe even by me).

I do a few sportives events, and as has been said theres no individual winner. But as I said early its a challenge, if im doing 50, 80 or 100 miles I like to do the course as fast as I can (as do so many others). I use it as a measure of my fitness and to see if i have improved since the last time.

We all have our reasons for entering sportives, live and let live. If someone likes to think they have beaten many others to finish, well let them get on with it. After all they are only kidding themselves.


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## addictfreak (10 Nov 2011)

Lard Armstrong said:


> Yes this discussion is all very good, but what I want to know is, what is a 'prannock' ?



Apparently its a cross between a prat and a pillock!


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## 400bhp (10 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> That sounds like a marathon.



It's not a marathon.


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## addictfreak (10 Nov 2011)

Interesting defintion here:

http://www.tredzblog.co.uk/2007/04/cyclo_sportive_.html


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## brokenflipflop (10 Nov 2011)

addictfreak said:


> Apparently its a cross between a prat and a pillock!



No, a prannock is someone who calls a women a bird and then tries to establish why a Cycle article, via this bird, appears to give the impression that a Sportive is a race. _That's_ a prannock apparently. 

It also makes some people feel "grubby" ?!!


Let's keep on subject though because I still don't know if a Sportive is a race or not.


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## Norm (10 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> It's not a marathon.




Addict makes a good point about what people consider to be a "race".


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## GilesM (10 Nov 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Let's keep on subject though because I still don't know if a Sportive is a race or not.



Does the first person across the line get a prize and/or trophy, if yes, it's a race, never ridden a race with no prize for the winner.


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## John the Monkey (10 Nov 2011)

GilesM said:


> Does the first person across the line get a prize and/or trophy, if yes, it's a race, never ridden a race with no prize for the winner.



In the Tour Rides (the only sportive I've done), the first person over the line gets a medal. But then, so did the rest of us.

Hmm.


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## Will1985 (10 Nov 2011)

The first sentence in Addict's link clearly states that they are not races.

If they were races, I would expect a risk assessment to have been carried out on every aspect of the course and signs or marshals positioned at every junction. Clearly they are not. If people want to 'race', they should do it properly in a BC, CTT or TLI event. The problem is that road racing on the public highway has experienced difficulties in the past and even today we (I speak as a competitive road racer and time triallist) are finding that some of the best events are being lost to local opposition and objections from the police. If the minority of sportive riders continue to ride behave as they do, Joe Public will tar us with the same brush as I sometimes hear at work. It generates the same reaction as RLJing or riding on the pavement.


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## GilesM (10 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> In the Tour Rides (the only sportive I've done), the first person over the line gets a medal. But then, so did the rest of us.
> 
> Hmm.



I ran a 10km and that happened, but the winner also got the something more and the chance to stand on a podium for a few minutes, that was called a race. All the bike races I have ridden just had something for the placed riders.


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## John the Monkey (10 Nov 2011)

GilesM said:


> I ran a 10km and that happened, but the winner also got the something more and the chance to stand on a podium for a few minutes, that was called a race. All the bike races I have ridden just had something for the placed riders.



Dunno if there was a podium, I think, given my time, I probably missed it if there was.


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## GilesM (10 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> Dunno if there was a podium, I think, given my time, I probably missed it if there was.


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