# Another DVT tale..



## PK99 (25 Apr 2017)

Started feeling unwell on Easter Sunday when I needed an afternoon nap. By Monday it felt like a chest infection brewing, so started a "rescue pack" of antibiotics I have for recurring chest infections. Seemed to improve.

Thursday felt dreadful and inner thigh felt like I'd pulled it. Friday leg worse and felt more ill than I have ever felt. Dragged myself to GP with self diagnosed DVT. Sent to A&E.

Dual track treatment over weekend. intravenous penicillin for potential infection and Xarelto blood thinner for DVT.

Ultrasound yesterday. DVT confirmed.

BUGGER.

No PE. So no clot busters but on Xarelto for 3 months minimum. 

Scary thing yesterday was when the Dispensing Pharmacist came along with a a full A4 checklist of things she had to tell me. Item 1 "You need to know that this medication is potentially seriously detrimental to your health" Oh goodie. The problem I have is so great that taking a medication that might kill me is lower risk.

Ah well!


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## jefmcg (25 Apr 2017)

GWS. I'm glad you've been diagnosed.



PK99 said:


> The problem I have is so great that taking a medication that might kill me is lower risk.


Warfarin?


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## vickster (25 Apr 2017)

jefmcg said:


> GWS. I'm glad you've been diagnosed.
> 
> 
> Warfarin?


He says Xarelto  (Rivaroxaban similar indication to warfarin) My dad was on it, but now on warfarin as the Rivaroxaban wasn't effective in his case (he has AF and a clot somewhere near his heart)

All the best @PK99 (not a result of the knee surgery?)


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## PK99 (25 Apr 2017)

vickster said:


> He says Xarelto  (Rivaroxaban similar indication to warfarin) My dad was on it, but now on warfarin as the Rivaroxaban wasn't effective in his case (he has AF and a clot somewhere near his heart)
> 
> All the best @PK99 (not a result of the knee surgery?)



no. other leg. random occurrence with no cause identified.


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## PK99 (25 Apr 2017)

jefmcg said:


> GWS. I'm glad you've been diagnosed.
> 
> 
> Warfarin?



apparently the stuff I am on is better than warfarin. seeing as Google tells me it costs 70x Wafarin they must believe it!


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## vickster (25 Apr 2017)

PK99 said:


> apparently the stuff I am on is better than warfarin. seeing as Google tells me it costs 70x Wafarin they must believe it!


Probably because it's still under patent unlike good old rat poison


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## Welsh wheels (25 Apr 2017)

Get well soon


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## stalagmike (25 Apr 2017)

GWS. What was the cause of your DVT?


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## Drago (25 Apr 2017)

Blimey, here's for a speedy recovery.


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## PK99 (25 Apr 2017)

stalagmike said:


> GWS. What was the cause of your DVT?



unknown.

no flights.
no immobility
no family history.


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## raleighnut (25 Apr 2017)

hope it clears up fella.


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## Oldbloke (25 Apr 2017)

Bugger. GWS!


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## jefmcg (25 Apr 2017)

vickster said:


> He says Xarelto


Reading skills. 0%



PK99 said:


> apparently the stuff I am on is better than warfarin. seeing as Google tells me it costs 70x Wafarin they must believe it!


That's good news. My dad was on warfarin, continually being promised the better drugs, but they never made to the approved list before he died. Warfarin is a terrible pain in the arse, and easy to get wrong.

@PK99 - get a medical info bracelet. If you are unconscious, it's important they know you are on anticoagulants ASAP.


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## PK99 (25 Apr 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Reading skills. 0%
> 
> 
> That's good news. My dad was on warfarin, continually being promised the better drugs, but they never made to the approved list before he died. Warfarin is a terrible pain in the arse, and easy to get wrong.
> ...



Thanks @jefmcg I ordered one last night!


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## ColinJ (25 Apr 2017)

Aaargh - look after yourself! 

I think the reason that they are trying to shift over to NOACs (Novel Oral Anti-Coagulants) like Xarelto is that patients don't need monitoring the way that those on warfarin do. The drugs cost a lot more, but there isn't the same follow-up needed. NOACs are pretty much '_fire and forget_' whereas those of us on warfarin need regular blood tests in order that the dose can be kept right - too much = bleed to death; too little = not helping.

After I got _my_ DVT, I read about May-Thurner syndrome (a.k.a. iliac vein compression syndrome).That might be worth looking at as a potential cause of your problem? 

Hopefully, the Xarelto should give your body a chance to sort the clot out and you never get another one. You will need to be very alert in the future though because scar tissue is often left behind as parts of the clot get incorporated into the inside of the vein. That scar tissue can be the site for future clotting events, which is what happened to me and why I am now on meds for life.


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## Mrs M (25 Apr 2017)

Sorry to hear this 
Best wishes xx


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## Pat "5mph" (25 Apr 2017)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery and that it never happens again @PK99 
At least if was caught in time.


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## Shortandcrisp (26 Apr 2017)

Best wishes. Caught early so should make a full recovery. Some of us are just prone to these things, methinks. Good idea to keep as active as possible, plenty of exercise, avoid dehydration and look at foodstuffs that might help to keep the blood less 'sticky.'


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## PK99 (26 Apr 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> Best wishes. Caught early so should make a full recovery. Some of us are just prone to these things, methinks. Good idea to keep as active as possible, plenty of exercise, avoid dehydration and *look at foodstuffs that might help to keep the blood less 'sticky*.'



Thanks for the reassurance, it does help at a stressful time.

What foodstuffs are you thinking of?


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## Shortandcrisp (26 Apr 2017)

Was really thinking of stuff like garlic, cayenne peppers, turmeric etc. Although it's probably not a good idea to slouch about on the couch hoping that a daily dose of these will keep you safe!


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## fossyant (26 Apr 2017)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## welsh dragon (26 Apr 2017)

Sorry to hear of your problem. I hope everything goes well and you make a speedy and permanent recovery.


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## Scoosh (26 Apr 2017)

BIG Bit scary that @PK99 ! 
Take care and all the best for a speedy recovery  ... how long till you're allowed back on the bike ?


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## gbb (26 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Aaargh - look after yourself!
> 
> I think the reason that they are trying to shift over to NOACs (Novel Oral Anti-Coagulants) like Xarelto is that patients don't need monitoring the way that those on warfarin do. The drugs cost a lot more, but there isn't the same follow-up needed. NOACs are pretty much '_fire and forget_' whereas those of us on warfarin need regular blood tests in order that the dose can be kept right - too much = bleed to death; too little = not helping..



Very informative, just goes to show, we see a cost and see it as just that but there's a lot in the background that needs to be taken into account, possibly they find its cheaper to the NHS to take what seems like the expensive option, 

GWS PK99


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## PK99 (26 Apr 2017)

Scoosh said:


> BIG Bit scary that @PK99 !
> Take care and all the best for a speedy recovery  ... how long till you're allowed back on the bike ?



I'm allowed back now, with the instruction that any fall with any head impact (I MUST wear a helmet) means an immediate trip to A&E as risk of brain bleed is multiplied.


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## Scoosh (26 Apr 2017)

PK99 said:


> I'm allowed back now,...


Good incentive not to have a clipless moment !


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2017)

PK99 said:


> I'm allowed back now, with the instruction that any fall with any head impact (I MUST wear a helmet) means an immediate trip to A&E as risk of brain bleed is multiplied.


I found myself worrying about that kind of eventuality for the first few months back on my bike but in the end I decided that it would try and carry on as I did before the illness. It's not like I ever rode around thinking that it would be okay to fall off and hurt my head! But yes - falls are taken a bit more seriously ...

I wear a medical dog tag now. Most of the people I ride with already know about my medical history, but I usually tell any new cycling partners about the tag to make sure that paramedics would have it pointed out to them if I ever ended up unconscious after a problem on a ride.

@PK99 - you should be ok now you are being treated, but if you ever feel worried and need somebody to unload on, please feel free to PM me. I got a lot of support from fellow CycleChatters when I was ill and barely able to cope.


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> I found myself worrying about that kind of eventuality for the first few months back on my bike but in the end I decided that it would try and carry on as I did before the illness. It's not like I ever rode around thinking that it would be okay to fall off and hurt my head! But yes - falls are taken a bit more seriously ...
> 
> I wear a medical dog tag now. Most of the people I ride with already know about my medical history, but I usually tell any new cycling partners about the tag to make sure that paramedics would have it pointed out to them if I ever ended up unconscious after a problem on a ride.
> 
> @PK99 - you should be ok now you are being treated, but if you ever feel worried and need somebody to unload on, please feel free to PM me. I got a lot of support from fellow CycleChatters when I was ill and barely able to cope.



Thank you for the advice and offer.

I' beginning to calm down as the initial shock wears off and I can see the meds working (leg looks normal now), but I may well take it up sometime.


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## Dogtrousers (27 Apr 2017)

Best wishes @PK99 and recover well.


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## Robxxx7 (27 Apr 2017)

was diagnosed with DVT about 2 1/2 years ago .. .. felt pain in my leg which made walking difficult and slightly swollen calf ... went to GP and was sent straight to A&E .. after an ultrasound was diagnosed with extensive DVT .. unexplained as to why it happened hence why i am now on Apixiban for life ... anyways feel fine now and back on the bike and cycling as much as i was before .. i wear a medical dog tag just like @ColinJ has ..just in case of emergencies ... 

My leg is still slightly swollen but nowhere near as bad as it once was ... My consultant Hematologist seems happy and told me just to go out there and cycle .. no point being wrapped up in cotton wool ...

so @PK99 just let the shock subside...take the meds and get back on that bike and enjoy ... don't let things like this get to you and think positive ... things could have been a lot worse ... Happy pedalling


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2017)

Robxxx7 said:


> was diagnosed with DVT about 2 1/2 years ago .. .. felt pain in my leg which made walking difficult and slightly swollen calf ... went to GP and was sent straight to A&E .. after an ultrasound was diagnosed with extensive DVT .. unexplained as to why it happened hence why i am now on Apixiban for life ... anyways feel fine now and back on the bike and cycling as much as i was before .. i wear a medical dog tag just like @ColinJ has ..just in case of emergencies ...
> 
> My leg is still slightly swollen but nowhere near as bad as it once was ... My consultant Hematologist seems happy and told me just to go out there and cycle .. no point being wrapped up in cotton wool ...
> 
> so @PK99 just let the shock subside...take the meds and get back on that bike and enjoy ... don't let things like this get to you and think positive ... things could have been a lot worse ... Happy pedalling




thank you for the reassurance.


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2017)

PK99 said:


> I' beginning to calm down as the initial shock wears off and I can see the meds working (leg looks normal now)


I couldn't bear to look at my leg for a couple of months post-DVT because it continued to look awful (purple and horribly swollen) so it is really good news that _your_ leg is responding to treatment so quickly! 



Robxxx7 said:


> My leg is still slightly swollen but nowhere near as bad as it once was ... My consultant Hematologist seems happy and told me just to go out there and cycle .. no point being wrapped up in cotton wool ...


My leg is the same as yours. It actually feels much better when cycling (or walking) because the pumping action of the muscles keeps the blood moving round rather than pooling in the calf and making it swell even more. PK's rapid improvement surely bodes well? It sounds like the clot has probably been caught before it caused long-lasting problems.


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## Robxxx7 (27 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> I couldn't bear to look at my leg for a couple of months post-DVT because it continued to look awful (purple and horribly swollen) so it is really good news that _your_ leg is responding to treatment so quickly!
> 
> 
> My leg is the same as yours. It actually feels much better when cycling (or walking) because the pumping action of the muscles keeps the blood moving round rather than pooling in the calf and making it swell even more. PK's rapid improvement surely bodes well? It sounds like the clot has probably been caught before it caused long-lasting problems.


 i find the leg feels much better with exercise, so do plenty of cycling or walking .... all helps to keep the blood pumping and hopefully long term will not cause me any further issues ... no reason why it should 

Hopefully PK will look back in this thread in a year from now and think .. what was i worrying about !


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2017)

Robxxx7 said:


> i find the leg feels much better with exercise, so do plenty of cycling or walking .... all helps to keep the blood pumping and hopefully long term will not cause me any further issues ... no reason why it should
> 
> Hopefully PK will look back in this thread in a year from now and think .. what was i worrying about !



one of the best things about forums like this is access to a Borg Collective Mind of shared experince on really random but really useful stuff.

I always say never follow medical advice from a random bloke on the internet, but sharing experiencce is good.

Thank you.


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2017)

Rob and PK - how tall are you ...?  (It isn't a random question! )


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## Robxxx7 (27 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Rob and PK - how tall are you ...?  (It isn't a random question! )


I'm 6ft 2"


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Rob and PK - how tall are you ...?  (It isn't a random question! )



6:2


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2017)

Robxxx7 said:


> I'm 6ft 2"





PK99 said:


> 6:2


That's about 1.88 m. I am 6' 1-and-a-smidge" which is nearer 1.86 m.

I found a research paper (LINK) which discussed a very interesting finding ... The correlation between obesity and blood clotting was already well known. What hadn't been so well known (my consultant had never heard of the research) was ... that 'tall' men are more likely to suffer from blood clots than shorter men! They defined tall as height >= 1.82 m. (The correlation was not so obvious in 'tall' women, but tall women tend not be as tall as tall men). (There used to be a full copy of the text of the paper but that seems to have been removed.)

Tall obese men are even more at risk, by more than a factor of 5 compared to average height men with BMI <= 25. I was obese when I got my first DVT.

So, our heights may not explain exactly why we got the DVTs but we were always at greater risk than if we had been of average height!


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## Scoosh (27 Apr 2017)

Hey, thanks @ColinJ - I'm 1.92cm or 6' 3" in old sizing ... 

[goes away to worry]


... though not obese by any means.


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2017)

Scoosh said:


> Hey, thanks @ColinJ - I'm 1.92cm or 6' 3" in old sizing ...
> 
> [goes away to worry]
> 
> ...


The surprising thing was that the extra risk due to height was almost as much as that due to obesity!  

Other risk factors:

Past history of DVT/PE (Too late - stable door bolting and all that!)
Family history (Can't change that. My mum had clotting problems too.)
Immobility. Don't sit/lie around too much. Get up and move! That's why hospitals get patients out of bed much sooner after surgery than they used to. They also seem to routinely give anticoagulants to patients spending a lot of time in bed. At least, they did during both of my stays in hospital.
Smoking - DON'T!
Injury. Serena Williams got a DVT/PE which nearly killed her after cutting her foot
Dehydration
Pregnant with more than one child
Being on the contraceptive pill
Illnesses such as cancer
Getting older (but it beats the alternative!)
And so on ...


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## Robxxx7 (28 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> That's about 1.88 m. I am 6' 1-and-a-smidge" which is nearer 1.86 m.
> 
> I found a research paper (LINK) which discussed a very interesting finding ... The correlation between obesity and blood clotting was already well known. What hadn't been so well known (my consultant had never heard of the research) was ... that 'tall' men are more likely to suffer from blood clots than shorter men! They defined tall as height >= 1.82 m. (The correlation was not so obvious in 'tall' women, but tall women tend not be as tall as tall men). (There used to be a full copy of the text of the paper but that seems to have been removed.)
> 
> ...


That was pretty interesting .. i was obese when i got my DVT, but no one ever mentioned to me about weight being a factor in DVT's ...

since shifted a fair bit of weight thankfully


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## ianbarton (10 May 2017)

Only just stumbled across this thread. I have had two DVT's: one in each leg. In my case the clots were both above the knee, although symptoms were the usual swollen calf muscle and slight pain. No predisposing factors (except the first DVT) or family history. Now on life long Warfarin.


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## PK99 (12 May 2017)

Thanks for all the positive and supportive comments above - all very helpful.

My head is in a much better place now - coming out of the blue as it did really messed with my head for a while.

Got a really good piece of news today - we have a mega holiday booked in Canada to see D1 in August/September, and I was very worried that our holiday insurer would decline cover (First Directory, linked to bank account). Phoned them just now and the medical assessment team were happy to simply add DVT & Rivaroxoban treatment to my disturbingly long list of notified aliments. Phew! I was steeling myself to having to cancel the holiday.


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## ColinJ (12 May 2017)

PK99 said:


> My head is in a much better place now - coming out of the blue as it did really messed with my head for a while.


That's good! I know what you mean - I found the psychological trauma of my DVT/PE almost as bad as the physical trauma itself. 



PK99 said:


> Got a really good piece of news today - we have a mega holiday booked in Canada to see D1 in August/September, and I was very worried that our holiday insurer would decline cover (First Directory, linked to bank account). Phoned them just now and the medical assessment team were happy to simply add DVT & Rivaroxoban treatment to my disturbingly long list of notified aliments. Phew! I was steeling myself to having to cancel the holiday.


More good news - have a great time!


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## ianbarton (13 May 2017)

PK99 said:


> T
> Got a really good piece of news today - we have a mega holiday booked in Canada to see D1 in August/September, and I was very worried that our holiday insurer would decline cover (First Directory, linked to bank account). Phoned them just now and the medical assessment team were happy to simply add DVT & Rivaroxoban treatment to my disturbingly long list of notified aliments. Phew! I was steeling myself to having to cancel the holiday.



DVT's haven't caused a problem in getting insurance for me. The odd comedy moment in answering the insurance questions when going on a climbing holiday to the Alps": "Do you have problems walking?"

You might want to discuss with the hospital/GP if you need to continue taking anti-coagulants permanently, as you are at much higher risk of having a second DVT.


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## PK99 (13 May 2017)

ianbarton said:


> You might want to discuss with the hospital/GP if you need to continue taking anti-coagulants permanently, as you are at much higher risk of having a second DVT.



I have an appointment with the blood doctors in July -that will be on the agenda then.


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