# Eskute ebike anyone got one?



## Banjo (1 Nov 2021)

They look like a bargain for less than 1k.
My wish list is 30 plus miles on a charge if i pedal a bit.disc brakes ,mud guards and a rack.


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## Cycleops (1 Nov 2021)

Linky?


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## Specialeyes (1 Nov 2021)

They're all over my social media, and I have to say every other comment under their adverts looks like it's from a shill account or paid for: they all read like they've been written by the same generic person. Similarly, if you find one of their Instagram ads, follow the [...] and you'll see how many accounts use the same ad.

That's not to say they aren't great bikes - I have no idea - but their social media presence just seems iffy to me.


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## ebikeerwidnes (1 Nov 2021)

https://www.eskute.co.uk/collections/e-bikes

There you go


look reasonable - the mid drive one has a Bafang motor - which are well known

the battery may be a bit low on capacity - which means lower range than something more expensive - also it means that you need to charge more frequently
And this results in shorter battery life - so expect to have to replace/recell the battery after 3-4 years at most
But at that point you may be able to increase the capacity of the whole thing - so then you will be batter off - and anyway - the cell technology may have improved by then as well


Normal warning - the stated range is probably based on flat land with good surface and no wind - and a nice temperature
stopping and starting, hills, cold weather and traffic can all reduce your range
Hence commuting in December may have a much reduced range


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## bonzobanana (1 Nov 2021)

They've been giving free ebikes out to youtubers. Leonard M Lee was given one but as far as I can tell the model he has joke low end front suspension and very low end drivetrain components. Halfords used to do pretty decent ebikes around £1100 with Suntour forks and a Suntour ebike motor system, torque sensor bottom bracket and freehub based drivetrain. The model at around £999 looks more like a £799 ebike to me even at current prices because of its low end components. Also all those free ebikes given out have to paid for. 

I would definitely spend some time looking at what is fitted to them. Admittedly freewheels aren't a big problem for hub motor ebikes because hill climbing is shared by the rider and the motor its not like mid-drive motors which chew through drivetrain components. However I still expect a freewheel based ebike to be reasonably cheap because its a low end cheap component. I certainly wouldn't want a bafang mid-drive motor and a low end freewheel based drivetrain though.


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## CXRAndy (1 Nov 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> I certainly wouldn't want a bafang mid-drive motor and a low end freewheel based drivetrain though.



Why not?

Bafang are a huge motor supplier whether mid mount or hub drive. Their spares are easily available and very fair in price. Just because its not a Bosch or Yamaha doesn't make them poor. I've got a Bafang drive, built like a tank it is.


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## bonzobanana (1 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Why not?
> 
> Bafang are a huge motor supplier whether mid mount or hub drive. Their spares are easily available and very fair in price. Just because its not a Bosch or Yamaha doesn't make them poor. I've got a Bafang drive, built like a tank it is.


I'm talking about the nature of mid-drive motors in that they put all their power through the chain and other drivetrain components. I'm sure the motor will last but a cheesy low end freewheel with both the riders power and the motor power going through it will mean it won't last long. Mid drive motors can wear out the drivetrain components at something like 3x the normal rate. Freewheels are just entry level components nowadays. They are fine for hub motors though as the power is shared so can actually last a very long time with hub motors. Hence why entry level ebikes have freewheels with hub motors and no problems but no one sells as far as I know a mid-drive motor ebike with a very low end freewheel based drivetrain or at least its extremely rare.


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## CXRAndy (1 Nov 2021)

The advantage mid drive have over hub is they feel more natural in the way they deliver power. There is always the option to upgrade drive components. Its all down to mechanical sympathy. Ive seen drive trains trashed in a few miles by not using correct gears and too much power and others that hardly show wear for thousands of miles with good maintenance and correct selection of gearing/power


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## Banjo (2 Nov 2021)

Thanks for the replies .Sounds like it may not be such a bargain. Im in no rush and would prefer to buy from a shop where you can get some after sale help if needed.


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## bonzobanana (2 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> The advantage mid drive have over hub is they feel more natural in the way they deliver power. There is always the option to upgrade drive components. Its all down to mechanical sympathy. Ive seen drive trains trashed in a few miles by not using correct gears and too much power and others that hardly show wear for thousands of miles with good maintenance and correct selection of gearing/power


I'm not knocking mid-drive motors and for e-mountain bikes really they are the only choice but hub motors definitely get the 'value' badge for cheap to buy and cheap to run and maintain. I mean with direct drive hubs there is nothing to them, the hub motor is literally just a motor with no moving parts at all.


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## Pale Rider (3 Nov 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> 'm sure the motor will last but a cheesy low end freewheel with both the riders power and the motor power going through it will mean it won't last long.



This is often said, but I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.

A fit rider can climb faster than me on my ebike, particularly for a short distance, so the ebike's drive train is not being put under a lot of strain.


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## bonzobanana (5 Nov 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> This is often said, but I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.
> 
> A fit rider can climb faster than me on my ebike, particularly for a short distance, so the ebike's drive train is not being put under a lot of strain.


That's a bit of a confusing post could you clarify what you mean and state what sort of ebike you have. Typically a larger percentage of drivetrain wear happens going up hill as the forces applied to the drivetrain are greater. The reason the wear rate is much faster on a mid-drive motor is because the motor and rider power are through the same drivetrain as you climb hills and you don't simply add the power together to get the wear rate normally the wear rate can be 5-10x more but in the whole lifetime of the drivetrain with both flat and downhilll this very roughly equates to a 3x wear rate but there obviously many variables. A hub motor pulls independently of the drivetrain so actually takes a lot of load off the drivetrain and equates to about 3x less wear so between mid-drive motors and hub motors you have about a 9-10x difference in drivetrain wear rate which means hub based ebikes can have cheesy low end drivetrains. Some even have those very low quality 8 or 9 speed freewheels from minor Chinese factories which would typically fail quickly on a normal bike but seem ok on hub based ebikes. Those even have 11t cogs where as a typical Shimano freewheel starts at 14T for its lowest cog or 13T for Asian markets and children's bikes.

Shimano are addressing the huge wear rate of mid-drive motors especially when used off-road with a new range of mainly steel cassettes and stronger chains in order to get much longer life out of drivetrain components but still quite expensive. Heavy riders obviously cause a lot more wear especially where there are steep hills and light older riders in relatively flat areas probably don't see it as an issue for them.


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## CXRAndy (5 Nov 2021)

With the ever increasing torque increase from crank based motors, I believe its beneficial to have a fair bit of mechanical sympathy for the drive train. Using a higher pedal cadence to reduce the grunt from the high torque is preferable. I know a lot of riders will stick it in a high gear churn a low-ish cadence and let the motor drive them along. This is where drive wear is at its maximum, that and lack of service.


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## Pale Rider (6 Nov 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> That's a bit of a confusing post could you clarify what you mean and state what sort of ebike you have. Typically a larger percentage of drivetrain wear happens going up hill as the forces applied to the drivetrain are greater. The reason the wear rate is much faster on a mid-drive motor is because the motor and rider power are through the same drivetrain as you climb hills and you don't simply add the power together to get the wear rate normally the wear rate can be 5-10x more but in the whole lifetime of the drivetrain with both flat and downhilll this very roughly equates to a 3x wear rate but there obviously many variables. A hub motor pulls independently of the drivetrain so actually takes a lot of load off the drivetrain and equates to about 3x less wear so between mid-drive motors and hub motors you have about a 9-10x difference in drivetrain wear rate which means hub based ebikes can have cheesy low end drivetrains. Some even have those very low quality 8 or 9 speed freewheels from minor Chinese factories which would typically fail quickly on a normal bike but seem ok on hub based ebikes. Those even have 11t cogs where as a typical Shimano freewheel starts at 14T for its lowest cog or 13T for Asian markets and children's bikes.
> 
> Shimano are addressing the huge wear rate of mid-drive motors especially when used off-road with a new range of mainly steel cassettes and stronger chains in order to get much longer life out of drivetrain components but still quite expensive. Heavy riders obviously cause a lot more wear especially where there are steep hills and light older riders in relatively flat areas probably don't see it as an issue for them.



A long post to examine something very simple.

Me and my ebike get up a hill in about the same time - or longer - than a fit road rider.

The wear on our respective drivetrains must be roughly equal.

Clearly, me and my ebike will wear transmission faster than me on a push bike, but the transmission stress on a legal crank drive ebike is well within the design parameters of the push bike components.


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## bonzobanana (6 Nov 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> A long post to examine something very simple.
> 
> Me and my ebike get up a hill in about the same time - or longer - than a fit road rider.
> 
> ...



I think you are simplifying it too much and mid-drive motors typically fit higher quality stronger components to compensate for the higher wear rate but they can still chew through such components quite quickly. A mid drive motor like Bosch can have peak watts of over 700W when going up hill even though the motor is rated to 250W nominal. The rider can provide lets say 200W and remember a mid-drive motor has linked power so when a rider produces his most power that is when a mid-drive motor's power peaks so we assume over 900W of power through the drivetrain. Hub motors aren't as powerful going up hill typically, they perhaps peak at 400W and again the rider is 200W so there is only 200W going through the drivetrain and 400W powering the front or rear wheel directly. 900W vs 200W is not a 4.1 increase in wear rate as I believe the wear rate doesn't work in a linear way it will be more than that. It's one of the huge advantages of hub motors over mid-drive although of course there are many pros and cons to both systems. Hub motors are definitely the right choice for cheapskates who want a simple long life ebike with long life drivetrain components.


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## dutchguylivingintheuk (1 Dec 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> Hub motors aren't as powerful going up hill typically, they perhaps peak at 400W and again the rider is 200W so there is only 200W going through the drivetrain and 400W powering the front or rear wheel directly. 900W vs 200W is not a 4.1 increase in wear rate as I believe the wear rate doesn't work in a linear way it will be more than that. It's one of the huge advantages of hub motors over mid-drive although of course there are many pros and cons to both systems. Hub motors are definitely the right choice for cheapskates who want a simple long life ebike with long life drivetrain components.


I think your oversimplifying this bit, an mid range motor has a much better weight distribution, so the higher wattage does not mean the same amount of wear compared to the hub, also of your not pedalling and the engine is not working(downhill for example) the hub will still wear while the mid-engine doesn't. Hub motors are cheap and easy to replace definitely but if there longer lived than a mid-engine i highly doubt it. 
A other thing wat come to mind thinking about this is Belt drive,i assume that changes the numbers too as one of the advantages always mentioned compared to a chain needs much less maintenance.


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