# Suspected torn meniscus



## vickster (30 Nov 2013)

I know there are a few folk on here with knee histories....

I came a cropper off the bike 4 years ago, tearing my left lateral meniscus and knocking a chunk of cartilage off my femur in the process. I had a lateral meniscus trim and some tidying up in February 2010, continued issues and another arthroscopy to assess suitability for a cartilage transplant. Wasn't suitable according to that surgeon and for the last 3 years I have kept the knee relatively happy with lubricating jabs and reasonable weight control.

Knee has started to grumble over the last couple of months and as I am changing job in January and my health insurance situation becomes complex, I decided to see the knee specialist in the week, expecting him to offer me another injection and send me on my way! However, he suspects I may have torn the meniscus again due to classic pain on the joint line and I am having a scan next week . With the new job and the fact meniscus usually doesn't heal, this is a pretty worrying situation if there is a tear 

Now, normally a meniscus tear follows a fall or a violent twist, I don't recall any specific incident, however I know that my meniscus isn't in the best nick and I am now 4 years older. The only thing I can think is I have somehow knackered it clipping in and out as it's the same side as my clip out foot! Although I have the spd pedal set on the loosest setting, I do have to twist quite hard to release with newer cleats. 

Has anyone any similar experience, I.e. Torn a meniscus or damaged a knee clipping out, probably a long shot but just wondered? 

Cheers


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## Booyaa (30 Nov 2013)

No experience of it myself, but I do wish you good luck and a speedy recovery. Get better soon.


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## ScotiaLass (30 Nov 2013)

No experience of knee issues due to biking, but I did damage my knee when I was 16, doing the long jump at school.
I had no end of issues with it and ended up eventually having my knee washed out, and cartilage trimmed when I was in my 20's. I had no issues after that although I've had arthritis in that joint for quite a few years now


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## vickster (30 Nov 2013)

Cheers both 

I also have soft cartilage on my tibia, my lateral patella isn't all that well and I am knock kneed which makes it all more tiresome (although the two specialists I have seen seem to disagree on the extent of this and whether it's an issue)

Bit gutted if I do have another tear. It is all uncomfortable, sore and tight/stiff feeling rather than really painful, although the bit that the specialist prodded did hurt quite a lot!

Ah well, still going to have a cycle today, just need to be a flat one


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## vickster (4 Dec 2013)

Well I had the scan today, hopefully know what if anything is wrong by the end of the week.

I have cycled both on flat pedals and today clipless over the last few days and i seem to have no fluidity in pedalling and my cadence is down, it could be psychological but it just doesn't feel 'right, sore leg muscles, achy and tight sensation


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## shouldbeinbed (4 Dec 2013)

Ask them to check your ACL function too. My meniscus has been going *again* almost as soon as my last op is done for a couple of years now after a hit and run. I've finally persuaded the NHS that the guy I've had for the last two op's is a bit of a tit who doesn't know my knee like I do or he thinks he does. My new consultant is more thorough, has put me through much more rigorous tests and thinks the my cruciate ligaments are part of the problem, as I understand his layman's explanation, my knee is less internally stable that he would expect, not locking out right nor as tightly held together than it should be and this is allowing my meniscus to be put under undue crunching stress and fraying the edge into tears again.

I also like him 'cos he described me as slim and has reiterated what the physio I saw straight after my accident said that I'm too young to be going for steroid injections yet as they'll ruin my knee too soon to consider a replacement before my mid 50's

I've even put my reservations on them to one side and bought a Brompton so I've got a multi modal option for days when I'd otherwise consider driving as its a bit too gritty and achey to be sure of doing both ways.

Another MRI next week to see how its changed from the one earlier this year and I'm promised another op sometime in the new year.
Fingers crossed for you, it is a real sod when it won't go right again


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## vickster (4 Dec 2013)

Ligaments are all ok  Been checked in two arthroscopies by 2 different surgeons and local surgeon wiggled the knee around again last week

The hole in the cartilage in my femur is the real problem and ultimately probably unfixable, will see what the Consultant makes of the MRI, hopefully that is not the issue...hoping there is no issue 

I have an issue given I am changing job in January, I need to have been discharged on the 17th when I switch from a Group policy to an individual one! And also not being able to take any time off for 6 months+


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## Linford (4 Dec 2013)

You have my sympathy...my one knee is borked after a major off 30 years ago which put me onto crutches for 6 months (a cominuted fracture of the patella, resulting in a shortening of the quadracep mechanism to knit it all back together) Cycling is the only real exercise I can do, and I very much guard it...no running, no working out...walking for big distances gives it grief.

Hope yours gets sorted anyway


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## BAtoo (7 Dec 2013)

I've a dodgy left knee after a sailing accident a few years ago which broke the inside of my femur and opened up my knee, dislocating the patella and scraping the cartilage off the patella in the process. Its all healed fine except the scraped patella as cartilage doesn't regrow and then the exposed bone beneath hurts.
Like Linford the only exercise I can comfortably do is cycling which I returned to earlier this year and overall its helped my knee function a lot. 
I'll be interested to hear the consultants suggestions Vickster - hope it all goes well.


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## vickster (7 Dec 2013)

Ouch!

The defect in my femur is (hopefully) still filled with fibrocartilage so no exposed bone but it still tender if prodded and always has been. I get a burning sensation from it too.my patella was also tidied up and that was ok at time of last op in December 2010.

Scan is done but won't get the results until I see the consultant next Saturday. The suspense is killing me lol. I am probably having the hyaluronic acid injection, but won't know for sure until Saturday.


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## Cuchilo (7 Dec 2013)

My knee pain is probably due to my torn meniscus . My leg was unable to bend because of it and lots of physio got it moving again . I went in for keyhole surgery but was sent home by the surgeon as I wasn't in pain  He must have been busy that day .
I never rebooked the appointment and have not had any trouble with my knee other than the cold making it niggle a bit . That was no trouble until I started cycling  Ive lived with it for about 15 years and the pain when cycling is more of a dull ache and I stop because I don't want to make things worse not because of the pain .


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## vickster (7 Dec 2013)

I'd leave a torn meniscus well alone if no mechanical issues in the knee  you want to maintain the shock absorption at all costs if you can. 

My knee was locked for 5 months, constant limp, swelling, no amount of physio helped, then it started to buckle even when sitting which is an odd feeling to say the least and was chopped!

Once over about 25-30 a meniscus tear is usually removed, as the tissue is generally not viable for repair


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## Banjo (10 Dec 2013)

Good Luck Vickster. Hope they get to the bottom of your knee problem and get you sorted out.


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## vickster (10 Dec 2013)

Thanks, not too long now to wait for the prognosis


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## Cletus Van Damme (13 Dec 2013)

Speaking as somebody that has had bad experiences with knee operations Vickster I would research the procedure that the specialist wants to do and I would probably research the specialist. I didn't and just went with somebody local as I live out in the sticks and really regret it. The cartilage repair is not a straight forward operation and often fails. Mine did, I had that operation along with a high tibial osteotomy at the same time. I was told that the damage on the medial condyle of my femur was too big a hole to use a cartilage donation from the top of my hip and instead he used tru-fit synthetic plugs. These failed (apparently they often do after researching it) and since he has said about using the original cartilage donation that he dismissed in the first place. I'm just living with what I have and hoping that my body repairs itself as having a cartilage donation operation is 2 months non-weight bearing and no guarantee that it will work and you can also have issues with the donor site.. I've already had 2 operations by a specialist that said I would be back up on the fells in no time  Never a hint in anyway to how often major knee operations fail. I've just had a bad experience 2 major procedures in one operation and a further smaller operation. Needless to say if I get another operation it will be by a different specialist even if I have to travel (I have private insurance through work).

I guess if you do research it like me, it will be on the internet where you tend to only hear the bad things. But seriously look at the specialist. Other people whom I know at work that play rugby traveled to a different specialist as opposed to the one that I used. I only found this out after the problems I had as I honestly had no idea what was involved and the specialist was always so positive and I thought it was a minor procedure as I was so naive and just thought that operations never go wrong. Really dumb I know and hate to sound all doom and gloom but major knee surgery really hurts.. Just if I knew what I know now I would of never had the operation as my really badly damaged knee was only bothering me the odd time, I could still run, steps didn't bother me, I could climb small mountains. Now I can only walk around a mile, a mountain is out of the question and I walk with a slight limp and I need a hand rail for steps. If I could go back I would live with what I had and try to look after it, i.e. just cycling really and no really long walks, certainly no running. Hopefully this would last until I was much older (44 now) and then get a full knee replacement (going to need this anyway).


Good luck with whatever happens, make sure you ask them about the success rate of the procedure that they recommend. And possibly living with what you have, if that is possible that is.


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## vickster (14 Dec 2013)

Many thanks for your reply 

I have no doubts about the specialist, been seeing him on and off now for 4 years since the initial injury, he did the first arthroscopy to deal with the torn meniscus which sorted the issues due to that pretty quickly. My insurance wouldn't authorise him to do the cartilage repair as he was not involved in trials, so he referred me to another specialist, part of a very experienced cartilage repair team out of the rnoh. He scoped the knee after a wrangle with the insurance company with a view to take cells and proceed to the full repair. However, he determined that I have damage on the tibia took, all lateral as I am knock kneed. He said the option was a distal femoral osteotomy as In his view, the repair has little chance of success with kissing defects. No thanks, I am squeamish about the metal as daft as it seems! I am under no illusion that these are difficult and painful surgeries.

I am back with the first surgeon locally, as much we are seeing what is going on with the bones and also whether the meniscus is again torn. My appointment is in the morning, we will discuss the scan and hopefully I'll have the injection to lubricate the joint and be on my way for a good year. My intention is to live with it, I am not in a great deal of pain, more discomfort. I can't run, but don't want to, can't kneel, not a massive concern and cycling has got much more uncomfortable but livable. My worry is I appear to have a sore right knee too, but I am hoping as a reaction to lefty being grumpy!

Bupa no longer cover maci apparently as the trial that I originally got signed off for has ended so cartilage repair is likely now. I am 41, so on the cusp of being too old anyhow!


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## vickster (14 Dec 2013)

Good news, small tear, degenerate tissue as we knew but as no mechanical impediment no surgical intervention needed. Cartilage defect possibly a little bigger, on weight bearing surface but as not too much of an issue, leave well alone

I had the injection which should help everything settle down

Carry on cycling as is the best activity but don't overdo it and listen to the knee, all good. Absolutely no running but that's never been an issue!


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