# Advice please on a terrible connundrum- Hewitt Cheviot SE or Thorn Raven Tour?



## Joe in Moscow (15 May 2010)

Niether bike is cheap and I want to be sure, if that's possible. I was completely sold on Paul Hewitt's Cheviot SE based on the rave reviews in the cyling press about his bikes and the service and character of the man himself, his personal touch and attention to detail. He has been very helpful so far with my enquiries. I'm also truth be told a bit conseravtive when it comes to bikes, just over 40 I think of Tourers in the traditional way, with drop handlebars. They're the bikes I've had since being a boy, in the 70's, when I was the proud owner of a Raleigh racer and jealous of my neighbour friend who had a Falcon. ( He also wore cool shoes while I had Clarks).
Anyway, my sure decision to start the ball rolling on a Cheviot SE build was knocked off track yesterday by reading some reviews of the Thorn Raven Tour and its Rohloff hub and straight bars. It does look and sound like a lovely machine. I recentlt came back from some touring in the Alps and found myself a few times off the beaten track a bit. I'm wondering how the two bikes would compare in these situations, and is the Cheviot SE REALLY a bike for smooth European roads while the Thorn Raven might be a more reliable workhorse for out of the way places where the terrain might not be pristinely tarmacked or even surfaced at all? I like the idea of being sure of my bike in ANY situation, not just ideal ones, which hardly ever exist when touring anyway. I appreciate any comments from owners and people who know more than I do, to help me make this decision. I usually load up quite heavy, for me that means up to 20 KG distributed on rear and front wheels. My recent Alp venture was on a rented KTM Fun bike (Pedal Power, Vienna), hardly top of the range but I got quite used to riding with straight bars in the end. I'm not a "racing tourer" - I HATE to rush and can't stick to planned miles and routes. I'm a star gazer, always hopping off to take photos and explore what's around. I can make a 3 day trip last a week. etc etc. Cheers, Joe.


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## Garz (15 May 2010)

I would go with the Hewitt as you have had help so far and he can offer extra support which I'm guessing the other option wont?

Do you live near leyland?


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

Hewitt for me. I tried and didn't like the shifters on a Rohloff Thorn. The attention to detail reputedly from PH would sway it for me. I would have bought one myself but it would have required a trip too far for me and I settled on an Ultra Galaxy.


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## toekneep (15 May 2010)

Definitely Hewitt in my opinion. Watching Paul carry out the first service on my wife's Cheviot was a pleasure. Pure professionalism and attention to detail.


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## Percy (15 May 2010)

I had the same decision a few years ago, before going on a long tour. I went with the Hewitt for the following reasons:

-The fitting and attention to detail when planning and making the bike up.

-The general feel of the place and how they dealt with me - Hewitts feels like a proper bike shop and they talked through my options with me in an informed but reasonable manner. I found Thorn (who I also visited) to be rather dismissive and slightly arrogant - 'you need this, this and this and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong' was the basic feeling I got from them. I don't doubt they make a decent bike but then so does Hewitt, and this was something that really swayed me.

-I test rode a Thorn with a Rolhoff and straight bars and didn't much like it, simple as that. I thought the shifting was awkward and, a bit like you, I liked the idea of a 'traditional' style bike - with drops and a 'normal' drivetrain.

I spent just over 10 months away on my Hewitt a year or so after I bought it - 8,000 ish miles through 18 countries in eastern and western Europe. Most of the time I was on nice tarmac roads but when I wasn't (bloody German cycle paths leading me through fields!) I didn't lose faith in the bike and it performed well throughout.

I did have a few problems with it - the rear hub failed, for example, but I put that down to bad luck with components rather than anything Hewitt did - in fact, the basic make up of the bike is the same now as it was when I first picked it up from his shop and it still rides like new.

5/6 years on I am glad I went with Hewitt - I ride it 3/4 times a week now and it still makes me feel good just to be on it - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have that with the Thorn.


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## betty swollocks (15 May 2010)

I have a Thorn Raven Tour, with the straight bars and the Rohloff.
It's given me over 35,000 trouble-free miles, apart from routine maintenance: it's been great.
I like the way Thorn have taken care of issues like chain tension and rear wheel dropping out, which can be a real pain on hub gear bikes and have made these as easy as pie.
Granted the Raven Tour is quite heavy and feels like a tank unladen, but it all comes to life, feels right and somehow makes sense when loaded up.
I don't find the gear changing a problem at all and with bar ends I have plenty of variations of handholds.
If you want a tough-as-old-boots workhorse, The RT is the one for you.

Don't know about the Hewitt.


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## betty swollocks (15 May 2010)

.......and welcome to the forum


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## Andy in Sig (15 May 2010)

Both my bikes have got Rohloff hubs and I will never go back to derailleurs. I'd be very surprised if Mr Hewitt couldn't build a frame to take a Rohloff and so give you the best of both worlds.


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## gwhite (15 May 2010)

I find it strange that two bikes so dissimilar, should be compared. The Raven is a well-engineered bike which is ideal for expedition work in that it's solid, stable, heavy and has a transmission which is ideal.
The Hewitt is an entirely different beast as it's a bike suited to tarmac and is responsive, reasonably light,while at the same time capable of carrying a touring load. The wheels are made by Hewitt himself and are a good selling point.
I think that in the end it comes down to your intended purpose, as both bikes are superb in their own way.

Re the above post: Paul Hewitt doesn't build frames but imports these from Taiwan.


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## Gerry Attrick (15 May 2010)

gwhite said:


> I find it strange that two bikes so dissimilar, should be compared. The Raven is a well-engineered bike which is ideal for expedition work in that it's solid, stable, heavy and has a transmission which is ideal.
> The Hewitt is an entirely different beast as it's a bike suited to tarmac and is responsive, reasonably light,while at the same time capable of carrying a touring load. The wheels are made by Hewitt himself and are a good selling point.
> I think that in the end it comes down to your intended purpose, as both bikes are superb in their own way.
> 
> *Re the above post: Paul Hewitt doesn't build frames but imports these from Taiwan*.



As do Thorn.


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## Gerry Attrick (15 May 2010)

Joe, where are you based? If you are not tied to a specific area, I can wholeheartedly recommend this man. He makes frames/bikes to your specific size and specification. Not cheap but superb. Mrs A and I have one each which been the best investments we have made. All made by hand in the UK.


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## toekneep (15 May 2010)

I went to DY for my tourer. I considered Hewitt's first but didn't like the sloping top tube. Having watched DY build a frame I have every confidence in my tourer. It is, without doubt, the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden.


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## Madcyclist (15 May 2010)

Trust me to throw a spanner in the works, i had a similar conundrum and opted for a Thorn Sherpa mainly due to being able to run 26 inch wheels and Deore gearing. My reasoning for this was availabilty of spares and condition of roads in the india Himalayas.

I'm well pleased with my choice, i find it heavy and sluggish but so comfortable and predictable either ladem or unladen. I truly believe it will come into its own once my tour starts late June.


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## geocycle (15 May 2010)

I faced the same decision 3 years ago. I went for the thorn because I wanted the rohloff. The bike gets used everyday and has 11000 miles on the clock from tarmac and offroad. Like many others I'd not go back to derailleurs for the reliability and limited maintenance. 

BUT, it is a bomb-proof bike for carrying heavy loads over every sort of terrain with excellent reliability. If that is what you can see yourself doing go for the thorn. If you want a bike primarily for the sunday run then the hewitt is very good indeed and rides very well. These excellent bikes share about 80% of the same basic touring role but there are differences at the margins.


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## TheDoctor (15 May 2010)

I can't believe anyone would think of spending that much on a bike and not test ride it!!
Give them both a go. One will call to you.
Of course, if they both do, you're in trouble


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## gwhite (16 May 2010)

Another option would be Byerscycles. They do a Supertourist model and use the same frames as Paul Hewitt but they come in a bit cheaper. Superb bikes and they come with hand-built wheels. I'm impressed with the finish and attention to detail.No connection etc.


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## Jugular (16 May 2010)

Is there a reason people don't mention Orbit at this stage?

There are many frame builders out there, why not consider Roberts' Roughstuff another fantastic service, and well built bike. The amount of money you're considering spending here will of course buy you a very nice bike. Much of the joy is in the tailor making of the bike to your exact dimensions. Each of these bikes is lauded as the be all and end all by the majority of their owners. I have similarly ummed and ahhed about the same thing and have yet to come to a conclusion. The suggestion of trialling them is certainly a good one.
Thorn will make a frame for you here in Blighty if you pay for it.


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## Joe in Moscow (16 May 2010)

Thanks all for your replies, 3 hours ahead here and will reply in more detail on my afternoon off on Tuesday. Im based in Moscow, Russia now. Paul Hewitt's shop isn't far from Manchester though I think, so I'm hoping to go for a fitting when I go back home for a couple of weeks in July or August, in the meantime he's asked me to send him my measurements and he will build the bike up then finish the positional fitting when I come. It all feels like going to a tailor and having a suit made to measure,(not that i've ever done that). which is why I guess so many go with him. I recently bought a Hilleberg Nallo GT2 tent, something I'd wanted to own for years, and part of all this is treating yourself to something that'll last years and you know you'll get a lot of use out of. I WAS even considering Bike Friday's NWT at one point, but I really didn't like the almost Jehova's Witness type hype around it, and even less the small wheels. I also sent an email to them asking what i thought was a valid question - they claim that their foldable bikes offer a great way for the traveller to cycle without being charged extra for oversized luggage - BUT, their bikes weigh up to 20KG and more, and most airlines have a 20KG max weight limit anyway, so what difference does it make? You still have to pay lots for the excess weight you carry, even if it does fit neatly into a suitcase. Maybe I've missed something.


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## Auntie Helen (16 May 2010)

My husband recently bought an Aravis SuperTourist from Byercycles (mentioned above in the thread) which is another version of the Hewitt Cheviot. He likes it very much - it's light and comfortable but also seems pretty reliable so far. It's a lot, lot better looking than the Thorn (IMO). However, I think the Rohloff hub would be a good thing if possible.


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## TheDoctor (16 May 2010)

I've been using a Byercycles frame since '91 and I'm still well pleased with it.
Richard's a good wheelbuilder too. Having said that, my Open Pros have gone a bit out of true after a mere 4 years of touring, off-roading, commuting and general abuse...


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## onistjon (1 Aug 2010)

Joe - If you haven't already made a decision I have a 4 year old Paul Hewitt Cheviot SE which I would consider selling. I doubt I've done 1000 miles on it. what height are you? mine is a medium frame. i'm 5' 8" and i'm sure it would suit someone a few inches +/- .nothing wrong with the bike it's just that i didn't think it through properly and have preferred to stay off road. maybe when/if i retire i'll have time to get involved with a touring club! cost new was £1259.


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## Brains (1 Aug 2010)

Both Bikes a top of the range. Both are very good

But to a certain extent I think you are comparing apples with oranges.

Are you thinking of heavy city traffic, 3rd world road levels (London) and the ability to haul 2 weeks shopping, a frame tent and a canoe (in which case go with Thorn), or decent countryside, rolling hills, endless smooth tarmac, a credit card as your luggage and perpetual summer (Hewitt)

I think the bottom line question is drops or straights. 
Then get the right bike


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## willem (1 Aug 2010)

Of course these are both good bikes, from very reputable builders. As others have pointed out, you need to decide first what kind of riding you want to do, and what you expect from the bike. There is one thing I want to make clear, however: a Rohloff hub does not force you to use a straight bar. You can fit the shifter at the bar end, on an auxiliary bar, or you can use the special Mittelmeyer shifter for drop bars: http://www.mittelmeyer.de/html/rennlenker.htm That is what I do on my 26 inch wheeled drop bar tourer, and I am very pleased with the result. It is just a bit stiffer than the original Rohloff shifter, but not that much. Shifting has never been easier.
Willem


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## TheDoctor (1 Aug 2010)

I'd also consider aesthetics. Thorns are doubtless excellent expedition bikes, but I personally couldn't look myself in the saddle again were I to ride something so desperately fugly.
*hides*


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## betty swollocks (1 Aug 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> I'd also consider aesthetics. Thorns are doubtless excellent expedition bikes, but I personally couldn't look myself in the saddle again were I to ride something so desperately fugly.
> *hides*



Ugly fugly schmugly:-







Just put together a Thorn 'Sports Tour' frame, with my own selection of components.


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## Danny (2 Aug 2010)

I had a similar dilemma a couple of years ago, and decided on a Cheviot (though not an SE) in the end, mainly because of the bike fitting service that Paul Hewitt provides. 

Paul advised me to change my riding position significantly and as a result hugely alleviated the lower back problems I had been suffering with.

He also provided much good advice about what equipment I should have on my Cheviot, and happily accommodated several last minutes changes in requirements. Build quality and setup were all excellent.

The main advantage you would get with a Thorn is that they offer a wider range of frame sizes than Paul Hewitt.


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## HelenD123 (2 Aug 2010)

Ben Rowlands over on Crazyguyonabike runs a Thorn Sherpa with Rohloff and drop bars and has some quite comprehensive details and photos of his bike which you might find useful, although it seems like you're going with the Paul Hewitt. That should be find for anything you'll come across on tour if you are intending to stick mostly to tarmac. I've taken my Dawes Ultra Galaxy (which is very similar) down quite a few tracks.


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## Tim Bennet. (2 Aug 2010)

It's worth remembering that Hewitt's also do 26 wheeled versions of the Cheviot and all models are available with straight bars if you want.

The base frame for the Cheviot is indeed made in Taiwan but fully custom frames are available from him if you have the money.

The idea that any full weight tourer like the Cheviot or Galaxy, etc, can only handle 'smooth rolling tarmac' is laughable. There is no part of any 26inch wheeled tourer that is stronger and just because they look more akin to old mountainbikes doesn't make them better for rough stuff. The limiting factor is always going to be clearances and this will be normally be the mudguards on both sorts of bikes until you take them off. 

And don't peddle that drivel about 26inch wheels being stronger - decent wheels of any size never buckle or break spokes. The 700c wheels are proving plenty strong enough for the latest rage 29er mountainbikes which are invariably ridden by bigger, more aggressive riders. And the advantage of 29ers with their 700c wheels? They roll much better over rocks and bumps. So if you want a rough stuff tourer - do what the mountainbike world is discovering; use 700c wheels.


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## dobo (2 Aug 2010)

i bought a surley long haul trucker fantastic piece of kit for less than a grand. very nice stable ride 700/32c tyres all the braze on's you need take a look at 1........................

regards alan


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## bike_the_planet (17 Aug 2010)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is sizing.

Maybe the Cheviott has changed since I last looked at it. But I seem to remember that it only comes in 3 or 4 sizes. I've heard that PH does a comprehensive frame fitting service...but then tries to fit you to one of four frame sizes - is that true?

If it is, then it kind of negates the purpose of the fitting. Surely most people can work out which one of four frame sizes they will fit?

The Thorn comes in a few more with options for top tube lengths if I remember rightly. 

I am 6'3" and found that the largest Cheviott was till a little too small. Whereas the Club Tour was available in my size.

Cheers,


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## jags (17 Aug 2010)

Danny said:


> I had a similar dilemma a couple of years ago, and decided on a Cheviot (though not an SE) in the end, mainly because of the bike fitting service that Paul Hewitt provides.
> 
> Paul advised me to change my riding position significantly and as a result hugely alleviated the lower back problems I had been suffering with.
> 
> ...



hi danny can i ask what exactly did paul advise you to change on your riding position .i to am starting to suffer from lower back pain ,did he give you any specific measurements to go by .
sorry to the op dont mean to hijack your thread.


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## Franckster (24 Oct 2010)

I'm currently in the process of buying Hewitt Cheviot SEs for myself and for my wife. I can tell you that there is a lot more to the Hewitt fitting service than just telling you you need a small, medium or large frame. The frame size is only half of the task of obtaining the optimum individual fit. There are also infinate numbers of ways to further tweak the geometry by saddle and handlebar position. Of course, the former most of us can do at home but the latter needs to incorporated at the construction and purchase phase by the trained eye. 
Yes, I believe the regular Cheviot frames are imported but if these standard small, medium and large frames are unsuitable for the individual then Mr. Hewitt offers custom frames built on his premises in Leyland. I'm 6'3" with some very awkward statistics and have never actually managed to get a cycle to fit me. I've therefore always gone for the largest off the peg cycle and put up with the inevitable aches, pains, lumps and sores that come with touring on a bike that doesn't really fit. Enough is enough, I've spoilt myself and the Meme Sahib by ordering brand new Cheviot SEs in readiness for next years touring in France. She's not a freak like me and was able to get an off the peg Cheviot frame in the small size. However, in order to get it to fit her Mr. Hewiit has made several alterations to the standard fittings such as compact bars and a shorter stem. I'm having a customised frame built for me at the shop.
The spec on the Cheviot is comparable with the Ultra Galaxy and it's cheaper. It's tough from what I can gather and the wheels are hand built on site by Mr. Hewitt who had a respected reputation as a wheelman even before he began selling bikes. If I wanted to buy a high quality dinner suit and found a tailor who would offer the same quality as the off the peg ones but tailor made for me personally... and cheaper... there would be no choice. Being comfortable when on holiday touring has to be a priority.
Hope this helps.


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## Banjo (25 Oct 2010)

Franckster said:


> I'm currently in the process of buying Hewitt Cheviot SEs for myself and for my wife. I can tell you that there is a lot more to the Hewitt fitting service than just telling you you need a small, medium or large frame. The frame size is only half of the task of obtaining the optimum individual fit. There are also infinate numbers of ways to further tweak the geometry by saddle and handlebar position. Of course, the former most of us can do at home but the latter needs to incorporated at the construction and purchase phase by the trained eye.
> Yes, I believe the regular Cheviot frames are imported but if these standard small, medium and large frames are unsuitable for the individual then Mr. Hewitt offers custom frames built on his premises in Leyland. I'm 6'3" with some very awkward statistics and have never actually managed to get a cycle to fit me. I've therefore always gone for the largest off the peg cycle and put up with the inevitable aches, pains, lumps and sores that come with touring on a bike that doesn't really fit. Enough is enough, I've spoilt myself and the Meme Sahib by ordering brand new Cheviot SEs in readiness for next years touring in France. She's not a freak like me and was able to get an off the peg Cheviot frame in the small size. However, in order to get it to fit her Mr. Hewiit has made several alterations to the standard fittings such as compact bars and a shorter stem. I'm having a customised frame built for me at the shop.
> The spec on the Cheviot is comparable with the Ultra Galaxy and it's cheaper. It's tough from what I can gather and the wheels are hand built on site by Mr. Hewitt who had a respected reputation as a wheelman even before he began selling bikes. If I wanted to buy a high quality dinner suit and found a tailor who would offer the same quality as the off the peg ones but tailor made for me personally... and cheaper... there would be no choice. Being comfortable when on holiday touring has to be a priority.
> Hope this helps.



Enjoy your new bikes and wlcome to the forums. I am not in the same league as most on here.Just do the odd overnight tour. But maybe onme day....


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## Sir_night (27 Oct 2010)

HI Just Order a Hewitt Cheviot SE with a Rohloff Speedhub, bit more pricsey but cant wait to get my hands on it


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## HelenD123 (27 Oct 2010)

Sir_night said:


> HI Just Order a Hewitt Cheviot SE with a Rohloff Speedhub, bit more pricsey but cant wait to get my hands on it



Lucky you. I'm jealous! You must let us know what you think of it.


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