# Drivers have zero patience



## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

I wasn't the cyclist here but was doing the school run in my car, there is a Dad and son who cycle to school using a tag along.

Anyway I was following the Dad/Son and this utter douche is behind me shouting and screaming as I won't overtake, it's a small road and meeting on-coming traffic leaves you no room to maneuver, at this point it's a series of 3 back to back blind corners, it's not safe to overtake and I didn't so I started to slow down, it's on hill so you slow fast and the S-Max brake lights are highly visible it's a brick of a car, this guy was tailgating pretty badly.

I overtook the bike when safe on the straight and wider part of the road, but the numptey followed me to discuss my actions, I'm not arguing at the school gates, kids are around and it's not fair.

He said I will have a visit from the plod later, that's fine I will discuss it with them I don't care, his attitude towards a vulnerable road user was disgusting, this is why I now avoid all main roads on my rides now and only ride on the small country roads.

I think my stupid grin as he was whacking a drink bottle into his hand like some bat was meant to be threatening but it looked comedic, didn't help.


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## ianrauk (22 Jul 2020)

Just another one of lifes twats I'm afraid.


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## C R (22 Jul 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> I wasn't the cyclist here but was doing the school run in my car, there is a Dad and son who cycle to school using a tag along.
> 
> Anyway I was following the Dad/Son and this utter douche is behind me shouting and screaming as I won't overtake, it's a small road and meeting on-coming traffic leaves you no room to maneuver, at this point it's a series of 3 back to back blind corners, it's not safe to overtake and I didn't so I started to slow down, it's on hill so you slow fast and the S-Max brake lights are highly visible it's a brick of a car, this guy was tailgating pretty badly.
> 
> ...


So what is he going to tell plod, that he was a road raging twat?


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## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

C R said:


> So what is he going to tell plod, that he was a road raging twat?



He said because I slowed down, and the limit is 40.

I said it's a limit not a target, and you should drive to the conditions, blind corner and vulnerable road user etc

I think Ian summed it up perfectly to be honest.

To be honest the way he was driving I was happy to put my car between him and the cyclist.


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## rogerzilla (22 Jul 2020)

I've had a bottle-swigging guy get out of his car and tell me to "f***ing MOVE!" into a box junction just so he could turn left without waiting. As this was in Tidworth (shudder) he was probably a squaddie just back from Iraq, so I didn't argue. He was almost certainly violent and trained to do a lot of damage.


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## winjim (22 Jul 2020)

Meh. It'll be like when I was a barman and the pissed up yahoos we kicked out said they'd be waiting for me at closing time to beat me up. They never were, probably too busy puking on some poor girl's shoes in the shitty nightclub in town, or racially abusing the kebab vendors.


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## Arjimlad (22 Jul 2020)

Yup, sounds like it was a good thing you were there to shield the people from this impatient knobber.


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## figbat (22 Jul 2020)

I've had similar tailgaters - the real danger is that they get impatient enough to try and get past you and the bike; I will try and drive defensively on behalf of myself and the cyclist if I believe this risk is real and will position my car to discourage such notions.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

figbat said:


> I've had similar tailgaters - the real danger is that they get impatient enough to try and get past you and the bike; I will try and drive defensively on behalf of myself and the cyclist if I believe this risk is real and will position my car to discourage such notions.



That's the real issue, and when someone comes the other way I can guarantee they will choose to pull in fast and wipe out the cyclist.


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## hatler (22 Jul 2020)

I simply comfort myself with the fact that someone that wound up must have a miserable, wretched existence and will likely keel over with a heart attack well before the average.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

I probably would have started laughing at him. Offer to phone the police to report yourself for driving correctly, and see if he'd like to explain why he's followed you and got out of the car to have a rage !

Some right nutcases out there, and 'lockdown' seems to have brought the worse out in many folk.


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## DSK (22 Jul 2020)

Its precisely these road users who make our roads a danger. Zero observation, anticipation and planning skills, but, happily drive in a manner to cause their own sh!t and then blame the rest of the world for it.

Good for you doing the right thing and no doubt the tag along couple would have appreciated the breath of safety.

This is another example of why I insist on running front/rear cameras regardless of form of transport. The video always captures the full story and show what idiots these people are, even more so should this escalate.


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## Slick (22 Jul 2020)

DSK said:


> Its precisely these road users who make our roads a danger. Zero observation, anticipation and planning skills, but, happily drive in a manner to cause their own sh!t and then blame the rest of the world for it.
> 
> Good for you doing the right thing and no doubt the tag along couple would have appreciated the breath of safety.
> 
> This is another example of why I insist on running front/rear cameras regardless of form of transport. The video always captures the full story and show what idiots these people are, even more so should this escalate.


How come it's always when you don't have the cameras that someone turns into a maniac?

I run a cyclic camera on the rear and only occasionally use my front mounted gopro, preferring to keep that for unusual rides. As I left work yesterday I forgot to turn it on and had nothing on the front and soon after I regretted it as this oncoming idot in a BM floored his car to try and get to a parked car blocking his path before me and then nearly put it on its nose trying to stop it before he hit it. Somehow this was my fault as the usual gesticulating and swearing came from the driver which I simply ignored. Not sure if this made him worse or not but I could hear the screeching of the tyres as he spun the car round and the roar of the engine getting closer but fortunately there was a car blocking the road attempting a 3 point turn which I normally would wait for but I just kept going so the bm was blocked which must have given him just enough time to realise what a dick he was being as I never saw 9r heard him again. Just to complicate things a bit further, just as I passed the car, I noticed what looked like a dad out cycling with 2 very small children that could have so easily got caught up in a nasty situation.

Probably a long way of telling the OP that I agree with them, unfortunately.


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## snorri (22 Jul 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> this utter douche is behind me shouting and screaming as I won't overtake,


I think you must be exaggerating, how could you possibly hear what was being said in a following vehicle even if you were both driving with your windows wound down?


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## DSK (22 Jul 2020)

Depends on conditions but, if both windows are down and the conditions are quiet you can easily hear shouting from a vehicle. Had enough of it with drivers of the greater London region myself.


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## Drago (22 Jul 2020)

I'd have given him 4 stiff fingers in the windpipe, in the honestly held belief that he was about to attack me.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

snorri said:


> I think you must be exaggerating, how could you possibly hear what was being said in a following vehicle even if you were both driving with your windows wound down?



all 4 windows down, doing less than 10mph in a rural area, he was tailgating I couldn't hear every word but I could see him in the mirror and hear basically the swear words.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> I'd have given him 4 stiff fingers in the windpipe, in the honestly held belief that he was about to attack me.



nah you need to put your hands up in a placating manor before you clock them, least any CCTV makes it look like you were being less agressive, also let them swing first.

Always found the haymakers easy to avoid, or you block it and punch the bicep.


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## Drago (22 Jul 2020)

Ah, CCTV. The trick is to be visibly smiling as you call them a twunt


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## C R (22 Jul 2020)

Just back from my evening ride. The last bit of road just before I get home has a 30mph limit. There's a short sharp ramp, with a bend to the left at the summit am a turn to the right into a quite popular cycle path. As I reached the bottom of the ramp I could see two cyclists reaching the turn for the cycle path and indicating, just at the same time I hear a car behind starting to overtake, obviously oblivious to the cyclists ahead turning right across his path. I threw my arm out hoping that they would stop, but they didn't, and another car immediately followed despite my signals. Luckily the cyclists ahead got out of the way just in time, but for a moment I really feared the worst. Is there any hope when drivers can't see past what's immediately ahead of their bonnet?


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## Mr Whyte (22 Jul 2020)

C R said:


> So what is he going to tell plod, that he was a road raging twat?




Some thing like this.

Officer: How can we help you Sir.
Fool: Well I was tail gating some one who would not cut up some cyclists officer, as I had to get past. Then making a fool of my self in front of a school.
Officer: Tail gating is a crime Sir, so I suggest you go home and calm down then read up on the Highway code Sir, before we arrest you for waisting Police time.


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## Badger_Boom (22 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> I've had a bottle-swigging guy get out of his car and tell me to "f***ing MOVE!" into a box junction just so he could turn left without waiting. As this was in Tidworth (shudder) he was probably a squaddie just back from Iraq, so I didn't argue. He was almost certainly violent and trained to do a lot of damage.


I like to think it was coincidence, but if you’re convinced then drop the car and driver details in to the guardroom and maybe prevent something worse happening next time. (I’m sure you already know that not everyone who lives in a garrison town is a ‘squaddie’, and not al soldiers are idiots.)


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## davidphilips (22 Jul 2020)

Never know the utter douche driver could be high on drugs/drink or have an anger problem whatever, the good news was you shielded the cyclists so perhaps saved them from a nasty accident. Only a mater of time before the douche falls foul of the law and gets caught or turns on some one else with similar problems, either way dont think he has a rosy future in front of him.


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## DSK (22 Jul 2020)

Sadly its driver mentality, they drive like self righteous know it all twats, innocent people with a brain cell see the potential scenario build up and have already planned and taken action to avoid the tw@ts, who then get away without any incident, thinking they are awesome.

Sadly, what we need is LOTS and LOTS of undercover police out in force, looking for just this sort of retarded uncalled for behaviour and a law that makes such offences seriously punishable with severe penalties. Because the law and society know it happens, not enough action is taken to stop it other than print it in a highway code, such incidents become accepted forms of normality.

I have seen people do some seriously fvcked up stuff in view of a police car and even they ignore it......

I had an incident at the weekend, where I was doing an indicated 31mph (29mph GPS) on a wide open 2 way urban street with a 30mph limit, which, also occasionally has speed camera vans hidden. I go past a car that steams upto a T-junction on my left, then he catches me up, sits on my @ss dangerously (despite me having mrs and baby in the back with a baby sign in window). He tries a few overtakes which failed due to oncoming traffic, then he goes past eventually , on the wrong side of the road, brake checks me waving a hand gesture and then speeds off again. Now, I have a baby crying due to the brake check, which I did not expect as he had a whole open road to overtake and there was no provocation from me. 

Oh, I must apologise for driving at the permitted speed limit, not reacting to being bullied via tail gating and taking my family safely to our destination, rather driving a modern shi!t box with a food blender for an engine like its been stolen.  Seriously, medi-evil torture and zero tolerance is what we need to deal with reprobates!


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## Drago (22 Jul 2020)

DSK said:


> Sadly its driver mentality, they drive like self righteous know it all twats, innocent people with a brain cell see the potential scenario build up and have already planned and taken action to avoid the tw@ts, who then get away without any incident, thinking they are awesome.
> 
> Sadly, what we need is LOTS and LOTS of undercover police out in force, looking for just this sort of retarded uncalled for behaviour and a law that makes such offences seriously punishable with severe penalties. Because the law and society know it happens, not enough action is taken to stop it other than print it in a highway code, such incidents become accepted forms of normality.
> 
> ...


This is why I drive an XC90. I can drive sensibly and to the limit, and impatient people in poverty cars arent tempted to take liberties tailgating or brake checking me. It's sad that a sensible driver has to drive an APC before eejuts in a hurry will leave them alone.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jul 2020)

C R said:


> Just back from my evening ride. The last bit of road just before I get home has a 30mph limit. There's a short sharp ramp, with a bend to the left at the summit am a turn to the right into a quite popular cycle path. As I reached the bottom of the ramp I could see two cyclists reaching the turn for the cycle path and indicating, just at the same time I hear a car behind starting to overtake, obviously oblivious to the cyclists ahead turning right across his path. I threw my arm out hoping that they would stop, but they didn't, and another car immediately followed despite my signals. Luckily the cyclists ahead got out of the way just in time, but for a moment I really feared the worst. Is there any hope when drivers can't see past what's immediately ahead of their bonnet?



I think many drive on pure muscle memory, they are virtually asleep driving the same route so some things don’t compute.

I was at a cross roads the other week and a driver turning right into my road stopped and berated me for my road position, basically she was pissed she couldn’t cut the corner like she does every morning, which is what I pointed out.

There isn’t helping some people, my partial commutes came to a end thanks to totally moronic drivers in Tunbridge Wells, it just wasn’t worth risking my health every time I did it.


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## tyred (22 Jul 2020)

If these type pf people are in such a hurry, why have they time to stop to have an argument?

A few years ago, I was driving a tractor and trailer (a 1970s Zetor so probably ~15mph top speed) on a narrow road when a red Golf came up behind me continuously sounding the horn and flashing the headlamps. Perhaps about 100 yards up the road there was a place on my left where a new house was being built and the hedge had been taken away so I'd thought I'd pull in there and let the idiot go. I pulled in and stopped and as I had done so I realised the Golf had disappeared. I saw it as it had pulled into a house on the right. Clearly someone was so impatient that they took offence at me delaying them for a few seconds on the final few yards of their journey. I often thought that if I'd been cycling at the same speed at the same place, the Golf driver would have forced past even though there wouldn't have been space but with the tractor he was never going to do something like that as several tons of ancient Czech tractor would have done an excellent re-styling job on his little VW.


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## DSK (22 Jul 2020)

I have 3 older 1998-2000 modified Volvos (had those for about 11 years) and the family wagon is a CLS 3.0 diesel. Even with a GSXR-1000 and a modified UK Supra TT, I don't have a pedal to the metal or, oooh this is just slow and boring attitude. I can drive/ride happily at and below the permitted limits and use the performance occasionally as and where conditions may allow. However, I am pleased to say have done about 1,000 miles a week (yes a week) for the 15 years around the country, I have never had a traffic violation. My motto is, obey the signs, you'll not be fined.

I just hate being a passenger in car with typical drivers/taxi's who do 35/45mph, in a 30 zone for example, have no observational skills, so only see a speed camera at the last second, slam on the damn brakes and then doddle around whinging about low speed limits, hidden signs, how you don't feel the speed and all that bollox. Then they drive on the arse of the car infront and go nuts if it needs to slow down or stop during the turn ...... err no, its because you have 0 driving skill and a lack of self control.


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## rogerzilla (23 Jul 2020)

You get more hassle if you're driving a smaller car. Used to get tailgated and abused a lot for driving at a 30 limit in a Micra or a Yaris. Never in a big BMW or Mazda estate. It's a small-willy thing.


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## Teamfixed (23 Jul 2020)

Hopefully he will go to the police and give them a good laugh.


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## HMS_Dave (23 Jul 2020)

It doesn't matter if you're following a cyclist at all with these types. I've had headlights flashed at me with hand gestures thrown in because i wouldn't overtake a tractor on a rather obscure bend. I've had people pip their horns when i didn't move up to the petrol pump immediately after the person in front vacated it as their was a bloke helping himself to gloves which clearly wasn't spotted by the impatient knuckle dragger behind. No wonder there is so much road rage, really, driving seems to bring out the WORST in people but i refuse to drop down to their level...


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## tyred (23 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> You get more hassle if you're driving a smaller car. Used to get tailgated and abused a lot for driving at a 30 limit in a Micra or a Yaris. Never in a big BMW or Mazda estate. It's a small-willy thing.


I think this is actually true. I have an old Peugeot 205 and often find myself driving at the speed limit when someone in an Audi or BMW will cruise up behind me, tailgate me and then overtake me, often somewhere utterly stupid like a blind bend or into oncoming traffic, swerve in right in front of me making me brake and then proceed to travel at the exact same speed that I was doing anyway leaving me wondering what was the point in taking such an outrageous risk and not actually go anywhere?


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## rogerzilla (23 Jul 2020)

Drive something that makes you look like a tooled-up drug dealer and you won't get any hassle from other drivers, however slowly you go!


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## HMS_Dave (23 Jul 2020)

tyred said:


> I think this is actually true. I have an old Peugeot 205 and often find myself driving at the speed limit when someone in an Audi or BMW will cruise up behind me, tailgate me and then overtake me, often somewhere utterly stupid like a blind bend or into oncoming traffic, swerve in right in front of me making me brake and then proceed to travel at the exact same speed that I was doing anyway leaving me wondering what was the point in taking such an outrageous risk and not actually go anywhere?



Because they brought into all the car manufacturer marketing driving hype on the telly, where they show good looking blokes with smiles on their faces driving what looks suspiciously fast in perfect back drops with open roads and pulling up next to a beautiful model and they give each other a wry smile as they head off towards what is presumably the bedroom direction.... The drivers then pay 5 or even 6 figure sums on these metal boxes and they've found out, rather frustratingly, that cars simply don't part out of the way for them on the roads and action in the bedroom has still not improved....

That and of course ridiculous marketing slogans such as "The Drive Of Your Life" and "The Ultimate Driving Machine"...


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## Johnno260 (23 Jul 2020)

The small car thing I see, in my Fiesta loads of grief, less so in the S-Max but again I was using the larger car yesterday.

Part of me wishes he had hit me yesterday as I had the tow hook on and that would’ve made mince meat of his radiator.

When replace the Fiesta it will be an old tank car like others said, some old block shaped Volvo, they would have better luck hitting a brick wall.


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## fossyant (23 Jul 2020)

MrsF noticed drivers wouldn't try and barge her out of the way any more when she moved on from a Yaris to a Qashqai. The Range Rover drivers backed down more.


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## DSK (23 Jul 2020)

I get it regardless of car type.


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## DRM (23 Jul 2020)

DSK said:


> I get it regardless of car type.


Me too, even in a bloody great big van!


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## boydj (23 Jul 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> The small car thing I see, in my Fiesta loads of grief, less so in the S-Max but again I was using the larger car yesterday.
> 
> Part of me wishes he had hit me yesterday as I had the tow hook on and that would’ve made mince meat of his radiator.
> 
> When replace the Fiesta it will be an old tank car like others said, some old block shaped Volvo, they would have better luck hitting a brick wall.



Reminds me of many years ago when I worked in a garage. The boss had an old Land Rover with a tow bar and a bus ran into the back of the him. Not a mark on the Landy and the bus had to be towed away.


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## davidphilips (23 Jul 2020)

Well i managed to get shouted at in Tescos car park this afternoon, just leaving my trolly back to one of the trolly park bays and stopped to pick up my car keys (dropped them).

A woman started shouting at me that i should not be parked there as it was for mothers and toddlers only etc on and on it went with a few words and names that i wont repeat. 

Went she paused i just told her that i was not parked there my car was over there and pointed to my car was , she drove of in her car with the parting words and another few names for me, that i should have more brains than to leave my trolly back?

Might sound trivial but if i had let that woman get me really upset maybe just maybe i could have caused an accident (my fault) driving home? Think for me any way main thing is keep calm and try not to let any muppets upset you, make no mistake they are heading for trouble but dont let them infect you with upset/anger etc.


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## Nitram55 (23 Jul 2020)

Part of the problem is there is almost zero chance of these idiots getting nicked, coppers patrolling the roads are like swallows in winter never see one.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Jul 2020)

boydj said:


> Reminds me of many years ago when I worked in a garage. The boss had an old Land Rover with a tow bar and a bus ran into the back of the him. Not a mark on the Landy and the bus had to be towed away.



I don't get too much nonsense from aggressive tailgaters when I'm driving my old one either. The beefy rear crossmember and the towing jaw bolted to it is enough to make a nasty mess of any modern plastic vehicle, and the owners of such vehicles know it.

It's funny how some people report getting more hassle when driving a small car, because I also find some of the worst driving comes not only from the willy-waving Germanics, but also from tatty £500 shitbox Fiestas, Focuses and Micras with cracked bumpers and dented panels. 
Only today, whilst driving a rigid DAF with a bright yellow trailer on the back, some dick in a Micra thought that trying to overtake me where a road narrowed from two lanes into one was a really good idea. If it had been a car or a motorbike with point & squirt performance, they might have pulled it off, but I maintained my speed and direction, and the Micra was too slow, so ran out of road by the time it got alongside and had the choice of aborting, hitting my trailer or hitting the traffic coming the other way head-on. The driver bottled it and swerved back in line behind me, leading to the sound of angry horns from other cars behind, who all had to anchor up. Total numpty.


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## RichardB (24 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> You get more hassle if you're driving a smaller car. Used to get tailgated and abused a lot for driving at a 30 limit in a Micra or a Yaris. Never in a big BMW or Mazda estate. It's a small-willy thing.



I think the worst example of sheer aggression directed at me was when I was driving home along the M180 late one night. There were roads works for about 2 miles, with the road reduced to one lane and a 50 mph speed limit. I was in a 2CV, which made sticking to the limit a piece of cake, and I was followed for the whole 2 miles by a black BMW who blew his horn the whole way. Bear in mind I was doing a steady 50, not 40 or 30. When the road widened, he screamed past, cut in, brake-checked me, and then swerved all over the road in what I could only think was a display of frustration and disappointment, while blowing his horn and waving violently out of the window (as were all his passengers). We were planning what to do if he stopped and they all got out (it was 2-3 am and no-one about) when he suddenly had a change of heart and screamed off. I still don't know whether what upset him was being made to keep to the speed limit for a couple of miles, or being made to do so by a small, air-cooled French car. We laughed about it afterwards, but it was quite alarming at the time.



SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't get too much nonsense from aggressive tailgaters when I'm driving my old one either. The beefy rear crossmember and the towing jaw bolted to it is enough to make a nasty mess of any modern plastic vehicle, and the owners of such vehicles know it.



My ratty old 90 with Dixon-Bate tow-hitch had a great sticker on the back: "YOU ARE MY CRUMPLE ZONE".


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## recumbentpanda (24 Jul 2020)

I don’t drive that much, but on both my last two trips I have had drivers behind audibly yelling abuse at me, for the crime of giving way to oncoming traffic where it clearly had priority. Quite how they thought I or they were going to mysteriously drive through oncoming vehicles at a single lane pinch point I don’t know. It’s all feeling a bit Mad Max out there.


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## DRM (24 Jul 2020)

Traffic levels are just about back to pre covid levels, over the last 2 days on a stretch of the westbound M62, between 2 junctions 1x Mazda hatch came on behind me which then blocked me joining lane 2 by deliberately pulling round me and pulling up to a transit van so fast to stop me moving across it nearly rear ended the Transit, then weaved across 4 lanes 3 times before exiting 1 junction later, 1 Audi in outside lane doing at least well in excess of 90mph, till it approached the gantries where the speed cameras were, then braked to less than 60 mph, then shot off again to tailgate some other poor soul, with a bit of luck the ones at the side of the carriageway will have enough photos to earn a ban, 1x Audi M606 south approximate speed exiting to join M62 around 80 mph, then tailgating the car I wanted to move across behind & flashing the headlights because this person had the audacity to obey the 50 mph limit, 1x Audi decided that instead of filtering to join the A1 at the Team Valley slip road, they would do an emergency stop, nearly causing a multi vehicle pile up, just hopeless idiots that can make a car move, but are incapable of driving, I give up, I'm seriously considering a Camera for the van.


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## Badger_Boom (25 Jul 2020)

DSK said:


> ...its because you have 0 driving skill and a lack of self control.


But don’t tell them that; all motorists think they’re driving gods.


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## Badger_Boom (25 Jul 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The driver bottled it and swerved back in line behind me, leading to the sound of angry horns from other cars behind, who all had to anchor up. Total numpty.


And the other drivers who could see he wasn’t going to make it and should have held back. Sometimes I think they all learn to drive on Grand Theft Auto.


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## Scotty55 (25 Jul 2020)

Nothing makes me drive at the speed limit (or 1 or 2 mph below it) than a tail-gating bar steward.

I do find that driving a 10-year old Land Rover Discovery (which has an impressive turn of speed and acceleration when needed) makes them think twice about getting TOO close.....


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## Drago (25 Jul 2020)

Indeed, its amazing how chicken these folks suddenly become when faced with the prospect of 2 1/4 tonnes of steel through their screen and in their lap.


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## Scotty55 (25 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> Indeed, its amazing how chicken these folks suddenly become when faced with the prospect of 2 1/4 tonnes of steel through their screen and in their lap.



The Disco is closer to 3.5 tonnes. A fantastic car - and looks even better with the bikes hanging off the back on a cycle carrier.


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## Badger_Boom (25 Jul 2020)

Scotty55 said:


> I do find that driving a 10-year old Land Rover Discovery (which has an impressive turn of speed and acceleration when needed) makes them think twice about getting TOO close.....


Me too.


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> Indeed, its amazing how chicken these folks suddenly become when faced with the prospect of 2 1/4 tonnes of steel through their screen and in their lap.



Unfortunately, the unwanted side effect of having crumple zones and airbags and all the other safety shoot fitted into modern cars is that muppets just use it as a protective force field to enable them to drive like complete c***s without killing themselves.
Personally, I'd do away with all of it barring basic seatbelts, and just let them die when they crash at high speeds into immovable objects. We need some enforcement of Darwin's law to eradicate these idiots before they get the opportunity to reproduce.


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## Badger_Boom (25 Jul 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Unfortunately, the unwanted side effect of having crumple zones and airbags and all the other safety shoot fitted into modern cars is that muppets just use it as a protective force field to enable them to drive like complete c***s without killing themselves.
> Personally, I'd do away with all of it barring basic seatbelts, and just let them die when they crash at high speeds into immovable objects. We need some enforcement of Darwin's law to eradicate these idiots before they get the opportunity to reproduce.


The problem with that is that the real motoring idiots are rarely the ones left dead or injured, even without the mod cons.


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## DSK (25 Jul 2020)

The police can only do so much with all the cut back and big wigs placing priorities. 

Its OK having speed cameras and personally I find even in average speed camera's zones you still get twats swerving in /out and just slowing for the camera. This invites all the criminals to clone plates/cars and get away with their activity. Sadly, we don't hear about it much (meaning that the authorities have sweet f*ck all intention to do anything about it) but cloned plates/vehicles are out there in astronomical numbers, anything common is likely top get cloned, even by the most innocent looking faces. Another reason why I drive some really rare stuff. 

Sadly, no matter how many initiatives such as cameras and god knows what, the roads will continue to get worse and more aggressive.


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## Nigelnightmare (26 Jul 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> I like to think it was coincidence, but if you’re convinced then drop the car and driver details in to the guardroom and maybe prevent something worse happening next time. (I’m sure you already know that not everyone who lives in a garrison town is a ‘squaddie’, and not al soldiers are idiots.)


And assaulting a civilian carries an immediate MP arrest, holding cell + charges. That goes for verbal assault as well as physical.

MP's are known for the laid back easy going attitude to their work. and will only hospitalise you if you resist.


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## Drago (26 Jul 2020)

Go to the barracks and tell the MP's that as the driver went past he shouted "the adjutant is a w****r!!!"


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## screenman (26 Jul 2020)

Came across a very impatitent cyclist one afternoon last week, he sped up to get past a 3 cars waiting at temporary traffic lights and then proceeded to cycle the whole 1/4 of a mile at 10mph, personally if I had been on my bike I would have let the 3 cars go through first.


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## RichardB (26 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Came across a very impatitent cyclist one afternoon last week, he sped up to get past a 3 cars waiting at temporary traffic lights and then proceeded to cycle the whole 1/4 of a mile at 10mph, personally if I had been on my bike I would have let the 3 cars go through first.


Sadly, there are dicks in all walks of life. That was dickish (and reflects badly on the rest of us). Like you, I would have let the cars past and gone on my own sweet way.


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## tyred (26 Jul 2020)

I was out in the car quite early this morning when there was not much traffic around and I stopped in a perfectly controlled manner at a red traffic light and was sitting stationary. A split second later, out of the corner of my eye I spotted this blue thing in the driver's door mirror which just skimmed my rear quarter panel, missing me by inches and I watched as this Renault Megane shot passed me and stopped halfway across the junction, forcing a Corsa which was legally going with the green light to take avoiding action. Thankfully the Corsa driver was on the ball.

I suppose it could have been brake failure but I suspect it was more likely to have been caused by eyesight failure or ability to read the road and pay attention failure.

The ironic thing was the "baby on board, please drive carefully" sticker on the back window of the Megane....

I definitely would not have fancied being rear-ended at that speed.


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## classic33 (27 Jul 2020)

tyred said:


> If these type pf people are in such a hurry, why have they time to stop to have an argument?
> 
> A few years ago, I was driving a tractor and trailer (a 1970s Zetor so probably ~15mph top speed) on a narrow road when a red Golf came up behind me continuously sounding the horn and flashing the headlamps. Perhaps about 100 yards up the road there was a place on my left where a new house was being built and the hedge had been taken away so I'd thought I'd pull in there and let the idiot go. I pulled in and stopped and as I had done so I realised the Golf had disappeared. I saw it as it had pulled into a house on the right. Clearly someone was so impatient that they took offence at me delaying them for a few seconds on the final few yards of their journey. I often thought that if I'd been cycling at the same speed at the same place, the Golf driver would have forced past even though there wouldn't have been space but with the tractor he was never going to do something like that as several tons of ancient Czech tractor would have done an excellent re-styling job on his little VW.


One reason I let a tractor get past as soon as it's safe. Less chance anything will attempt an overtake, and oncoming traffic has to slow or stop on narrower roads.

One idiot, in a New Holland with front loader, was lucky last week. If he'd had to stop, he'd have turned it turtle, in his race to get to the road narrowing.


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## MntnMan62 (27 Jul 2020)

This is why I pretty much ride the same 10 mile loop. One leg of the route is on a street that is pretty busy but has a large shoulder that is almost the size of a normal car lane. So, unless I'm passing a parked car or someone walking or running on my side of the road, I have no reason to be in the traffic lane. And when I do have to do that I always look over my shoulder to be sure there is no one coming or that they see me. The other leg coming back winds through a 2,000 acre park and there are lots of signs that have pictures of bikes and say "Share The Road". I am always seeing a fair number of bikers going in both directions. The shoulder is quite small but I usually can stay on or close to the line that demarcates the shoulder. The worst part of the loop is about a half mile stretch, all uphill, on a four lane road, two in each direction. The shoulder is not marked. And cars fly along this section. Several cars have come pretty close to me so it definitely makes me nervous. But I always have my lights front and back flashing. I guess the danger of that stretch forces me to try and get up the hill as fast as I can but since I'm not very good with hill climbing, that will take some time to work out. But that stretch is really the only bad stretch of the entire 10 miles. I've been doing that loop twice for most rides. Once I feel strong enough, I plan to add a stretch that bisects the park down the middle (the short way) and I will turn the loop into a figure 8. The segment that bisects the park is the biggest climb I would have for the entire ride and I would have to do it twice. The shoulder is again very wide so it's reasonably safe. It turns the 10 mile loop into a 13+ mile loop. I used to do this figure 8 loop when I was younger and in better shape. I want to tackle it again. I'll feel safer staying with these loops than I would venturing onto other roads as many of the roads around me have almost no shoulder at all. If I ever start doing group rides, I'll go wherever. But until then, since I'm riding alone, I'll stick to the roads I consider safe.


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## davidphilips (27 Jul 2020)

Silly question guys, when cycling solo do you try and avoid main roads or country roads, know most in the club i am in go for country roads but for me its avoid rush hour and stay in main roads. 
My reasoning is in the event of an accident at least i wont be left maybe overnight on the road side. 
Know this question is relevant to where you cycle as main and country roads where i cycle may not be as busy or maybe even busier than others etc?


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## screenman (27 Jul 2020)

Let us not forget a lot of cyclist are also drivers, some of the worst passenger experiences I have had in a car are in one's being driven by cyclist's.


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## Slick (27 Jul 2020)

davidphilips said:


> Silly question guys, when cycling solo do you try and avoid main roads or country roads, know most in the club i am in go for country roads but for me its avoid rush hour and stay in main roads.
> My reasoning is in the event of an accident at least i wont be left maybe overnight on the road side.
> Know this question is relevant to where you cycle as main and country roads where i cycle may not be as busy or maybe even busier than others etc?


I don't think I avoid many roads as anything can happen at any time. I probably do favour the country roads when I'm just out for a ride as it's usually a welcome relief to get out on almost deserted roads after a week of city cycling to get to work but when I think about it, some of the most dangerous occurrences have happened on those quiet roads.


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## dave r (27 Jul 2020)

davidphilips said:


> Silly question guys, when cycling solo do you try and avoid main roads or country roads, know most in the club i am in go for country roads but for me its avoid rush hour and stay in main roads.
> My reasoning is in the event of an accident at least i wont be left maybe overnight on the road side.
> Know this question is relevant to where you cycle as main and country roads where i cycle may not be as busy or maybe even busier than others etc?



About the only roads I wont ride round here are the A46 between junction 2 M6 and the Tollbar End roundabout, the A45 between the Tollbar End roundabout and the Leamington Road, the A46 Warwick bypass between the London Road and the M40 junction 15 and the A444 between the Binley Road and Nuneaton, they're all motorways in all but name, very fast and usually very busy.


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## DCBassman (27 Jul 2020)

davidphilips said:


> Silly question guys, when cycling solo do you try and avoid main roads or country roads, know most in the club i am in go for country roads but for me its avoid rush hour and stay in main roads.
> My reasoning is in the event of an accident at least i wont be left maybe overnight on the road side.
> Know this question is relevant to where you cycle as main and country roads where i cycle may not be as busy or maybe even busier than others etc?


I quite literally try never to ride on any roads. Not actually do-able, but that's the aim. Even out here on Dartmoor, the driving can be very, very scary...


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## Drago (27 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Let us not forget a lot of cyclist are also drivers, some of the worst passenger experiences I have had in a car are in one's being driven by cyclist's.


True, and the average cyclists roadcraft is every bit as woeful as the average cage pilots.


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## Milkfloat (27 Jul 2020)

davidphilips said:


> Silly question guys, when cycling solo do you try and avoid main roads or country roads, know most in the club i am in go for country roads but for me its avoid rush hour and stay in main roads.
> My reasoning is in the event of an accident at least i wont be left maybe overnight on the road side.
> Know this question is relevant to where you cycle as main and country roads where i cycle may not be as busy or maybe even busier than others etc?


I think it depends on how you define main roads. For sure I avoid dual carriageways and major trunk roads where possible and favour country roads, but I won't be bullied off riding anything I legally am allowed to. I much prefer the country roads due to the peace and quiet and the views though, I would say 80% of my riding is country roads. My Garmin radar tells me how many vehicles pass me on a ride and it is fairly common to be passed by less than 30 vehicles over 50 miles on an early Sunday morning 50-60 mile ride.


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## Johnno260 (27 Jul 2020)

I stick to country lanes, more scenic less cars, just have to watch for drunk drivers on the weekends.


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## vickster (27 Jul 2020)

Pretty much all suburban for me simply as that’s what’s around here! Plus parks etc but I’m not a major fan of the paths busy with families and dogs


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## Johnno260 (27 Jul 2020)

vickster said:


> Pretty much all suburban for me simply as that’s what’s around here! Plus parks etc but I’m not a major fan of the paths busy with families and dogs



With dogs I hate the stretch leads, a friend of mine ended up face first into a lamp post thanks to one of the those things, the dog walker didn't give a monkeys and was more worried if the lead was broken, when he got aggressive with my friend we had to push him away.

Friend needed a plate in his upper jaw thanks to that incident.


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## vickster (27 Jul 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> With dogs I hate the stretch leads, a friend of mine ended up face first into a lamp post thanks to one of the those things, the dog walker didn't give a monkeys and was more worried if the lead was broken, when he got aggressive with my friend we had to push him away.
> 
> Friend needed a plate in his upper jaw thanks to that incident.


I always slow right down or indeed stop around dogs, you can see that way if there is an extendable lead. The ones off the lead are more unpredictable


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## lane (27 Jul 2020)

I was out in the car yesterday. Crossing a long narrow causeway bridge. The nature of this it is very old, very long and of varying widths as you go along. Hence need to slow down or even stop in places for cars or in particular wider traffic coming the other way. On the way over slowed at one point and car shot past overtaking, which given the road conditions is completely unsuitable. On the way back stopped at one point on a slightly wider section so a car towing a caravan can get past and the car behind starts sounding his horn. Sunday afternoon / evening wonder where all these people are in such a rush to get to. Tossers.


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## davidphilips (27 Jul 2020)

Lol, lane dont know where they want to hurry to, but can guess where they will end up if they dont start to drive more careful.


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## Baldy (27 Jul 2020)

There are a few I wouldn't ride around here like the A9, 82, 84, 85. There designated as trunk roads but are mostly single carriageway, they still get driven on at motorway speeds. There are a few "cycle and pedestrian friendly" roads. Car access is usually restricted to residents only. These are often quite handy.


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## GilesM (27 Jul 2020)

The title of this thread is just wrong, I have heaps of patience especially when I'm driving, and so do lots of other people I know who also drive.
On Saturday I followed a wobbly cyclist who didn't do cycling with confidence very well down a wee single track lane, I watched him from a nice safe distance, he pulled in after a while and let me go by, so I thanked him and happily carried on, I actually wanted him to carry on in front as just after he stopped there is a ford on the road, his wobbly way could have been quite entertaining through the water. Nobody was frightened, threatened, or hurt, which is what usually happens when I venture out on the road with either a bike or a car, I guess I must be a bit dull.


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## matticus (27 Jul 2020)

GilesM said:


> The title of this thread is just wrong, I have heaps of patience especially when I'm driving, and so do lots of other people I know who also drive.
> On Saturday I followed a wobbly cyclist who didn't do cycling with confidence very well down a wee single track lane, I watched him from a nice safe distance, he pulled in after a while and let me go by, so I thanked him and happily carried on, I actually wanted him to carry on in front as just after he stopped there is a ford on the road, his wobbly way could have been quite entertaining through the water. Nobody was frightened, threatened, or hurt, which is what usually happens when I venture out on the road with either a bike or a car, I guess I must be a bit dull.


Heretic!


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## GilesM (27 Jul 2020)

matticus said:


> Heretic!



I know, I will whip myself with wet toestraps.


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## Drago (27 Jul 2020)

GilesM said:


> I know, I will whip myself with wet toestraps.


Ah, a Tory!


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## Slick (27 Jul 2020)

Baldy said:


> There are a few I wouldn't ride around here like the A9, 82, 84, 85. There designated as trunk roads but are mostly single carriageway, they still get driven on at motorway speeds. There are a few "cycle and pedestrian friendly" roads. Car access is usually restricted to residents only. These are often quite handy.


The A82 isn't so bad if you time it right.


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## Baldy (28 Jul 2020)

Slick said:


> The A82 isn't so bad if you time it right.


What, like two o'clock in the morning.


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## Slick (28 Jul 2020)

Baldy said:


> What, like two o'clock in the morning.


It would surprise you who is moving around at that time as I discovered on a recent trip to Fort William.


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## Mo1959 (28 Jul 2020)

Baldy said:


> There are a few I wouldn't ride around here like the A9, 82, 84, 85. There designated as trunk roads but are mostly single carriageway, they still get driven on at motorway speeds. There are a few "cycle and pedestrian friendly" roads. Car access is usually restricted to residents only. These are often quite handy.


Only bit of A85 I do is between Crieff and Lochearnhead and usually an early morning spin. Definitely wouldn't go on the A9. I don't even like crossing over it and wait ages for a nice clear gap in traffic


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

So according to something I have come across online proposed changes to highway code include "ride in single file when drivers wish to overtake and it is safe for them to do so."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlto...-favor-cyclists-and-pedestrians/#390ccc5873ba


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## RichardB (28 Jul 2020)

Slick said:


> It would surprise you who is moving around at that time as I discovered on a recent trip to Fort William.


When I was commuting a few years ago, I would take a longer route on rural lanes to avoid riding on the A40 at busy times. Sometimes, my shift ended at 2 am and I took a shorter, quicker route on the A40. There is hardly any traffic at that time of night, sure, but bloody hell they drive fast. I did it twice, and then went back to the longer, hillier, quieter country lanes. I don't usually worry about traffic, but on these occasions I was genuinely in fear of my life.


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## Baldy (28 Jul 2020)

Slick said:


> It would surprise you who is moving around at that time as I discovered on a recent trip to Fort William.


Actually, for my sins my day job is driving a container truck. I'm on the road at all hours.


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

New scheme in Nottingham £50 for professional driver to go on cyclists awareness course.


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## Baldy (28 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> New scheme in Nottingham £50 for professional driver to go on cyclists awareness course.



New scam in Nottingham £50 for professional drivers to go on cyclists awareness course. 

There you go fixed that for you.


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## Drago (28 Jul 2020)

How do you get to be a professional driver in the first place if you don't already have the appropriate awareness of other road users?


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## C R (28 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> How do you get to be a professional driver in the first place if you don't already have the appropriate awareness of other road users?


Easily, far too easily.


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

Baldy said:


> New scam in Nottingham £50 for professional drivers to go on cyclists awareness course.
> 
> There you go fixed that for you.



They get paid £50, I think, if they go on it. Take them out on a bike probably for the first time, see what it is like for the cyclist. From what I have seen of many "professional" drivers attitude to cyclists might not be a bad thing. Probably an easy £50 if you are furloughed or taxi driver without much airport work. Not really a scam you don't have to do it*

*AFAIU - might be wrong though


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> How do you get to be a professional driver in the first place if you don't already have the appropriate awareness of other road users?



I think professional merely applies to the fact that someone pays you to drive a vehicle - it does not imply any competence.


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

https://www.transportnottingham.com/professional-drivers-pedal-a-mile-in-someone-elses-shoes/

Says the course is free. Does not mention being paid £50 but think that was what they said on the local news last night


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## Baldy (28 Jul 2020)

For far too many drivers I know pedaling a mile would probably kill them, I'm sorry to say.


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## avecReynolds531 (28 Jul 2020)

I approached a pedestrian crossing today (a major one) and there were already two cars in line stationary there, allowing people to walk across. I was maybe 30-40 yards from the last car in line, so started freewheeling towards the crossing. I heard a car behind me accelerate and it swung out fast past me, then pulled in, only to have to brake very shortly after.
Apart from impatient, I reckon that's one of _the_ most mystifying pieces of driving I've witnessed. Just beyond reason 

If perhaps the driver becomes sick in the future, his GP will hopefully prescribe cycling


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## DaveReading (28 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> I think professional merely applies to the fact that someone pays you to drive a vehicle - it does not imply any competence.



One might have hoped that being paid to drive a vehicle would imply competence.


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## lane (28 Jul 2020)

DaveReading said:


> One might have hoped that being paid to drive a vehicle would imply competence.



Ample evidence to the contrary unfortunately


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## DRM (29 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> https://www.transportnottingham.com/professional-drivers-pedal-a-mile-in-someone-elses-shoes/
> 
> Says the course is free. Does not mention being paid £50 but think that was what they said on the local news last night


I’ve often thought that as part of being punished when caught out for bad driving round cyclists the driver should have to attend a course, where on a track they are close passed by cars, trucks and buses, then set up a roadworks traffic light system so they can be tailgated all the way through and finally have someone pull out in front of them/left hook them at a junction, then take them inside and show photographs of the aftermath of people being killed or injured and tell them the victims story ie not just a bloody cyclist but a person with a family


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## rivers (31 Jul 2020)

Both myself and one of my friends were intentionally sprayed with windscreen wash on a ride this evening. I managed to catch up the driver to have a word. It did not go well. But I've got his reg number, and my friend is a police officer. Plus his vehicle was declared SORN, with an insurance check being done tomorrow. He proceeded to try and follow us around town, but were able to lose him. Anti-social driving report filed as well as reported a SORN vehicle online. This could get interesting


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## lane (31 Jul 2020)

Out tonight, on a narrow lane, where if I get a car behind me I am inclined to pull over to let them past. Car comes up behind me, hoot, hoot, I made no effort to get out of his way. Later similar situation, car behind me, I pull over when convenient, thank you from the driver - that is how it should be more peasant all round. 

I can tell you the guy who hooted me wasn't going anywhere in a hurry. Just driving around with his girlfriend in the car.


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## Stephenite (31 Jul 2020)

Shout out for the drivers here (sorry).

Earlier today I was driving to the beach, with the gf and kids, in southern Norway along an (UK equivalent) A-road with one lane in each direction. Speed limit 80 kph with long straight, flat stretches (where one is tempted to drive at 100kph), few vehicles on the road. Came round a bend to find a car breaking and pulling in to the side, with what looked like another car across the lane in front of it. Worked out the car in front was half on and half off the road. Had to decide whether to stop or carry on. Now, in Norway, the law states it is a criminal act not to help someone on the road who obviously needs help. It goes through my mind what tools/eqt I might have and the type of vehicle I'm driving (I've driven off-roaders, and vans, and diggers, tractors, etc), there appears to be no immediate threat to life or limb, there is someone else stopping and, I think, I don't know if I can help here - and I have the kids with me. Well, that was it - I don't know if I can help or not, and the law says I have to help if I can. So I stop.

Five cars stopped (one drove on - i dont know why) and we managed to push the vehicle off and then onto the road again. Much to the relief of the occupants.

So, err, hurray for drivers!


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## avecReynolds531 (31 Jul 2020)

Stephenite said:


> Now, in Norway, the law states it is a criminal act not to help someone on the road who obviously needs help.


A good idea and thanks for sharing a Norwegian view here - we can learn a lot


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## DRM (31 Jul 2020)

rivers said:


> Both myself and one of my friends were intentionally sprayed with windscreen wash on a ride this evening. I managed to catch up the driver to have a word. It did not go well. But I've got his reg number, and my friend is a police officer. Plus his vehicle was declared SORN, with an insurance check being done tomorrow. He proceeded to try and follow us around town, but were able to lose him. Anti-social driving report filed as well as reported a SORN vehicle online. This could get interesting


Brilliant now who says there’s no such thing as karma


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## GuyBoden (31 Jul 2020)

I go on cycle rides 2-3 times a week and find that the majority of drivers are reasonably courteous when passing me on my bicycle, it's only a very, very small minority that are discourteous. Also, I think things have steadily improved over the years too. 

There has been a large outbreak of teenagers cycling with no hands recently, I'm putting this down to a symptom of lock down boredom/attention seeking.


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## Alien8 (31 Jul 2020)

GuyBoden said:


> There has been a large outbreak of teenagers cycling with no hands recently, I'm putting this down to a symptom of lock down boredom/attention seeking.



This really makes me angry ... I'd love to be able to cycle no hands.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2020)

It's nice to see teenage amputees getting out for a ride despite their lack of hands.


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## Pikey (31 Jul 2020)

I don’t think anyone has any patience if I’m honest. Horse riders, drivers, cyclists, people in shops. I took a quick trip to lidl just now to see two people arguing about who was next in line (it was pretty obvious and then got angry) then had to slam on the anchors going through a green light on the way home to avoid a cyclist that had jumped the red only to be told “f*ck off and drive on d1ckhead”. It’s all getting a bit mad max out there, we all need to calm down, look after each other and stay safe. There is enough out there to get us without getting into tribes based on how many wheels or legs we are travelling on!


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## BoldonLad (31 Jul 2020)

Reading some of the comments on here, about how people claim to drive, and, why they drive metal monsters, and, these people are presumably cyclists, small wonder our roads are unsafe


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## Drago (31 Jul 2020)

Pikey said:


> I don’t think anyone has any patience if I’m honest. Horse riders, drivers, cyclists, people in shops. I took a quick trip to lidl just now to see two people arguing about who was next in line (it was pretty obvious and then got angry) then had to slam on the anchors going through a green light on the way home to avoid a cyclist that had jumped the red only to be told “f*ck off and drive on d1ckhead”. It’s all getting a bit mad max out there, we all need to calm down, look after each other and stay safe. There is enough out there to get us without getting into tribes based on how many wheels or legs we are travelling on!


Come on, hurry up and type quicker, I've not got time to read this!


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## BoldonLad (31 Jul 2020)

Pikey said:


> I don’t think anyone has any patience if I’m honest. Horse riders, drivers, cyclists, people in shops. I took a quick trip to lidl just now to see two people arguing about who was next in line (it was pretty obvious and then got angry) then had to slam on the anchors going through a green light on the way home to avoid a cyclist that had jumped the red only to be told “f*ck off and drive on d1ckhead”. It’s all getting a bit mad max out there, we all need to calm down, look after each other and stay safe. T*here is enough out there to get us without getting into tribes based on how many wheels or legs we are travelling on!*



Quite. Particularly when most of us (on this forum) probably belong to at least two "tribes" (Cyclist, Pedestrian), if not three (Driver).

In any conversation, or, on any forum, I have yet to see a post saying "I am an inconsiderate driver/Pedestrian/cyclist/dog walker*" delete as appropriate. Strange that, considering there are so many of them around ?


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## Scotty55 (31 Jul 2020)

I was nearly knocked off my bike by a motorist overtaking me as I started to turn right.

Fortunately, the driver was alert enough to stop. I started to remonstrate with him about overtaking at a junction, but he pointed out that it was a long, straight road and I hadn’t indicated my intention to turn right.

Just grateful that he was paying attention. Lesson learned. I now indicate, even if there’s no other traffic.

Anyone can be an peanut, not just drivers.


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## MntnMan62 (31 Jul 2020)

Pikey said:


> I don’t think anyone has any patience if I’m honest. Horse riders, drivers, cyclists, people in shops. I took a quick trip to lidl just now to see two people arguing about who was next in line (it was pretty obvious and then got angry) then had to slam on the anchors going through a green light on the way home to avoid a cyclist that had jumped the red only to be told “f*ck off and drive on d1ckhead”. It’s all getting a bit mad max out there, we all need to calm down, look after each other and stay safe. There is enough out there to get us without getting into tribes based on how many wheels or legs we are travelling on!



There wouldn't be any arguments in the world if we all spoke like this guy.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyBMTo-1sc


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## Scotty55 (31 Jul 2020)

I didn’t type peanut. What the fark is wrong with the spell check?


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## vickster (31 Jul 2020)

Scotty55 said:


> I didn’t type peanut. What the fark is wrong with the spell check?


Nothing, it’s working perfectly


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## Drago (31 Jul 2020)

Scotty55 said:


> Just grateful that he was paying attention. Lesson learned. I now indicate, even if there’s no other traffic.



No, you now do what 99.9% of road users do - you indicate as a substitute for proper observation.


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## RichardB (31 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> No, you now do what 99.9% of road users do - you indicate as a substitute for proper observation.


I've had this argument so many times.

Them: You didn't indicate back there.
Me: No need.
Them: What do you mean?
Me: No-one there to benefit from a signal.
Them: How do you know that?
Me: I looked.
Them: Yes, but what if there_ was _somebody?
Me: There wasn't.
Them: Yeah, but you should indicate anyway.
Me: Why?
Them: Because then if you haven't seen someone, at least they see your indicator.
Me: But I _have_ looked. If someone's there, I'll indicate.
Them: It should be a habit. Every time you turn, you indicate, no matter what.
Me: Why?
Them: Because it's safer. It should be automatic.
Me: No it's not. It's a brainless routine which replaces thinking.
Them: But it's safer. How can you not want to be safer?
Me: *loses will to live*

See also: "I indicated to turn, so the accident can't have been my fault" and "I indicated to change lane, so you should have given way to me."


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> Come on, hurry up and type quicker, I've not got time to read this!



W


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## Johnno260 (31 Jul 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Reading some of the comments on here, about how people claim to drive, and, why they drive metal monsters, and, these people are presumably cyclists, small wonder our roads are unsafe



I’m not the greatest driver, never claimed to be, but I’m considerate of other road users.


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## Drago (1 Aug 2020)

RichardB said:


> I've had this argument so many times.
> 
> Them: You didn't indicate back there.
> Me: No need.
> ...


You've just proven the point. You, like virtually everyone else, will indicate _instead _of looking. That is far more dangerous. 

The matter has been researched and tested several times, the earliest being as far back as the 1930s - its human nature, and it's what you will inevitably end up doing unless trained and drilled to do otherwise.


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## Johnno260 (1 Aug 2020)

Issue being some people seem to think indication means it’s others responsibility to get out their way.

How many times have people witnessed an incident to hear the words but I was indicating!

Yes but did you look?


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## DRM (1 Aug 2020)

People soon forget mirror signal manoeuvre it becomes manoeuvre might look might signal


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## HMS_Dave (1 Aug 2020)

DRM said:


> People soon forget mirror signal manoeuvre it becomes manoeuvre might look might signal


This i remember well, about 10 years ago now, i was overtaken on a single carriage part of the A51 by a female who i clocked doing her makeup in the sun visor mirror at god knows what speed, i was doing around 60 and her BMW wooshed passed i'd say at 80 or so and i could see her. I suppose to be fair it could have been a bloke but either way they were doing makeup. I just don't remember that part on my lessons...

I must have had a terrible instructor, who was incidentally a woman instructor called Pat...


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## Baldy (1 Aug 2020)

I was passed by a car on the A50 Darby bypass. The driver had her phone in one hand, the other was turning the pages of a folder which was on the passenger seat. She was obviously looking for something or other in the folder. I could see as I was high up in the truck cab. Her car was weaving from side to side across the dual carriageway. She looked rather flustered when I blow my horn at her.


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## DRM (1 Aug 2020)

Baldy said:


> I was passed by a car on the A50 Darby bypass. The driver had her phone in one hand, the other was turning the pages of a folder which was on the passenger seat. She was obviously looking for something or other in the folder. I could see as I was high up in the truck cab. Her car was weaving from side to side across the dual carriageway. She looked rather flustered when I blow my horn at her.


Obviously at work, too stupid to ignore the phone and pull up where it’s safe and call whoever’s rung back, the majority of people when told I’m driving would ring off and call back later or wait for a return call


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## RichardB (2 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> You, like virtually everyone else, will indicate _instead _of looking.



Did you actually read my post? Try again.


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## MntnMan62 (2 Aug 2020)

In situations like this, it helps to hate people. If you hate people, then you don't trust anyone. And that means you will look before doing something and then signal if warranted. In that order.


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## Badger_Boom (2 Aug 2020)

DRM said:


> Obviously at work, too stupid to ignore the phone and pull up where it’s safe and call whoever’s rung back, the majority of people when told I’m driving would ring off and call back later or wait for a return call


It’s our company policy to apologise and callback later if we find someone behind the wheel, regardless of whether they’re hands free.


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## Slick (2 Aug 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> It’s our company policy to apologise and callback later if we find someone behind the wheel, regardless of whether they’re hands free.


The newer work phones won't allow calls through to the handset if it senses that you are moving. Bit of a pain in the ass when you are on a train but fair enough I suppose.


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## matticus (3 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> The newer work phones won't allow calls through to the handset if it senses that you are moving. *Bit of a pain in the ass when you are on a train *but fair enough I suppose.


that sounds bloody great to me 

Yours etc,
Quiet Coach Owners Club


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## Drago (3 Aug 2020)

DRM said:


> People soon forget mirror signal manoeuvre it becomes manoeuvre might look might signal


Signal, manoeuvre, dont look properly if at all is the norm. 

Manoeuvre, signal, don't look is also quite popular.

Time and time again it's been proven that signalling quickly becomes a psychological substitute for looking - people think they're being careful and conscientious, when the reality couldn't be further from the truth - they're driving in an essentially mindless state. Another symptom of the illness that makes the average untrained Joe think they're a far better driver than they are.

Only signalling when necessary promotes good observation. I mean, next time youre in "left turn only" lane look at the idiots Indictating left - why? Where else can they go in a left turn only lane? Who is going to benefit? What were they thinking? Indeed, were they thinking...? A complete lack of observation and thought, full on autopilot syndrome.

What also appears to have been missed is that there is also a drill for scenarios of doubt or ambiguity. Again, a case of an untrained Joe thinking they know better than one who has been trained - there are huge gaps in their knowledge, and their ignorance (in the nicest sense of the word, not intended to be derogatory) leads them to believe they know better. They simply do not, and 85 years of research, application, feedback and refinement trumps and untrained observer any day - my life depends on it when behind the wheel, so I'll go with the science and experience and observation of those who've gone before me rather than the untrained opinion.


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## newfhouse (3 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Where else can they go in a left turn only lane? Who is going to benefit?


Pedestrians. I have a traffic light controlled junction on my commute with a left turn where it is safer to signal left to warn unwary foot traffic of my intentions.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eTK7cbscwQvoXgiL6
But I take your wider point.


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## Johnno260 (3 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> I mean, next time youre in "left turn only" lane look at the idiots Indictating left - why? Where else can they go in a left turn only lane? Who is going to benefit? What were they thinking? Indeed, were they thinking...? A complete lack of observation and thought, full on autopilot syndrome.



I witnessed a nice one last week, person in the left turn lane turned right and the guy in the turn right lane turned left... they were screaming at each other so both fine. made me roll me eyes a little.

This morning same women in the Mini clubman hurled abuse at me on a crossroads I was going straight over, she wanted to turn right onto my lane and cut the corner, but had to swerve to avoid me, but it was my fault according to her ravings. haha


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## Slick (3 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> that sounds bloody great to me
> 
> Yours etc,
> Quiet Coach Owners Club


Obviously the quiet coache owners club can't dictate how we live our lives in the real world, especially as they can just be turned off.


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## Badger_Boom (3 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Obviously the quiet coache owners club can't dictate how we live our lives in the real world, especially as they can just be turned off.


Sometimes I enjoy the peace of the quiet coach, but then I also miss eavesdropping on occasional fantastic conversations.


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## Slick (3 Aug 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> Sometimes I enjoy the peace of the quiet coach, but then I also miss eavesdropping on occasional fantastic conversations.


Exactly, it's a choice. We have all heard the bum who wants everyone to hear them but unfortunately not everyone can pause their working day just because they are travelling.


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## GuyBoden (3 Aug 2020)

Alien8 said:


> This really makes me angry ... I'd love to be able to cycle no hands.


Me too...........


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## recumbentpanda (4 Aug 2020)

Third time now out of four journeys. Turning off into a side road, a shout from the car behind. “You don’t have to go everywhere at five miles an hour!” 

I was doing, until that manoeuvre, 20. 
In a 20 zone. 
Driving a car. 
Behind a bus. 
On a narrow road. 
With oncoming traffic.

sigh.


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## BalkanExpress (4 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Only signalling when necessary promotes good observation. I mean, next time youre in "left turn only" lane look at the idiots Indictating left - why? Where else can they go in a left turn only lane? Who is going to benefit? What were they thinking? Indeed, were they thinking...? A complete lack of observation and thought, full on autopilot syndrome.
> 
> I do it: my thinking is help the numpty behind me who has not been looking and, therefore, has not realised it is a left turn only lane


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## Daninplymouth (4 Aug 2020)

Had another classic today. The road here goes downhill the picture doesn’t quite do justice how steep it is in a 30zone now I am travelling about 25-35mph and there is a 90degree bend at the bottom, lots of cars parked on the left so all I can assume is they didn’t like how far out I was positioned on the road. Next thing hear a big honk to see some fat old bloke overtake me, so I shouted some obscenities back Then he gives me the finger out the window so I shouted some more 😂 think he was just trying to show off to his passengers. As we round the bend he wanted to turn right and his lights turned red so I gave chase, he clocked this so quickly changed lanes to carry on up the hill then I see a van trying to park so he gets slowed down. Still in pursuit mode just as I start getting close he veers round the traffic and carries on up the hill, by then there’s no way I can catch him.
Only positive I got a 5th place trophy on strava and clocked 30mph uphill for a short while 👍🏻


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## sheddy (4 Aug 2020)

Beware of the red mist....


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## BoldonLad (4 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Only signalling when necessary promotes good observation. I mean, next time youre in "left turn only" lane look at the idiots Indictating left - why? Where else can they go in a left turn only lane? Who is going to benefit? What were they thinking? Indeed, were they thinking...? A complete lack of observation and thought, full on autopilot syndrome.



I understand your point, but.... sometimes it can be helpful to signal, even in a left-turn lane, if it is not apparent to other drivers/road users (who may not be local, and, therefore not familiar with road layout/lane markings.

For example, near where I live, there I a roundabout with standard four exit. The approach East-bound has two lanes, the left-most of which is marked (with arrows painted on road surface) as left turn only. Road users, or pedestrians waiting to enter roundabout, or, cross the road, have no way of knowing that the lane is left turn, unless, they are clairvoyant or local.

Apart from "wasting" a little bit of electricity, I cannot see the harm in an "unnecessary" signal.


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## Scotty55 (4 Aug 2020)

Daninplymouth said:


> Had another classic today. The road here goes downhill the picture doesn’t quite do justice how steep it is in a 30zone now I am travelling about 25-35mph and there is a 90degree bend at the bottom, lots of cars parked on the left so all I can assume is they didn’t like how far out I was positioned on the road. Next thing hear a big honk to see some fat old bloke overtake me, so I shouted some obscenities back Then he gives me the finger out the window so I shouted some more 😂 think he was just trying to show off to his passengers. As we round the bend he wanted to turn right and his lights turned red so I gave chase, he clocked this so quickly changed lanes to carry on up the hill then I see a van trying to park so he gets slowed down. Still in pursuit mode just as I start getting close he veers round the traffic and carries on up the hill, by then there’s no way I can catch him.
> Only positive I got a 5th place trophy on strava and clocked 30mph uphill for a short while 👍🏻
> View attachment 539785



Not the only positive - pretty sure his ar5e would have been making bullets when he saw you closing, and probably got an earful from the passengers as well as he swerved into another lane to get away.


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## Globalti (4 Aug 2020)

tyred said:


> I was out in the car quite early this morning when there was not much traffic around and I stopped in a perfectly controlled manner at a red traffic light and was sitting stationary. A split second later, out of the corner of my eye I spotted this blue thing in the driver's door mirror which just skimmed my rear quarter panel, missing me by inches and I watched as this Renault Megane shot passed me and stopped halfway across the junction, forcing a Corsa which was legally going with the green light to take avoiding action. Thankfully the Corsa driver was on the ball.
> 
> I suppose it could have been brake failure but I suspect it was more likely to have been caused by eyesight failure or ability to read the road and pay attention failure.
> 
> ...



More likely the driver was distracted by a touch-screen. Auto Express reports that accident and death rates are creeping up in the UK despite better road design and MPs are worried that touch-screen distraction may be the reason.


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## Profpointy (4 Aug 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> I understand your point, but.... sometimes it can be helpful to signal, even in a left-turn lane, if it is not apparent to other drivers/road users (who may not be local, and, therefore not familiar with road layout/lane markings.
> 
> For example, near where I live, there I a roundabout with standard four exit. The approach East-bound has two lanes, the left-most of which is marked (with arrows painted on road surface) as left turn only. Road users, or pedestrians waiting to enter roundabout, or, cross the road, have no way of knowing that the lane is left turn, unless, they are clairvoyant or local.
> 
> Apart from "wasting" a little bit of electricity, I cannot see the harm in an "unnecessary" signal.



I do understand that there are circumstances where "automatically" is signalling is unhelpful or downright dangerous - eg there's a lay-by just after a junction so signalling in normal good time would mislead people. 

Strangely I got beeped at such an occasion since I'd slowed down in good time, then only signalled after the junction to stop in the lay-by. The twat behind obviously didn't have any observation skills at all since if i'd signalled before the junction the guy waiting to pull out would have likely gone for it, and no doubt the guy behind would still have been cross with me for not turning into the junction. Not signalling a left turn on a bike is often the better tactic too as signalling tends to encourage numpties to overtake and immediately turn left across your path - although the highway code would doubtless say you should nearly always signal left turns cycling. 

Now all that said I don't subscribe to the avoiding signalling if there's no one to see it rule - if heard this said by "advanced drivers" - dunno if it's still the rule. It arrogantly assumes you have 100% observation skills 100% of the time - and that you never yourself make the slightest error - maybe a pedestrian out of your line of sight when you looked, or some unorthodox circumstance you've misread so a "wasted" signal could save the day.

Think about whether to signal - yes absolutely, but the advice, perhaps not the official advice, does seem go a lot further than that to the extent of wanting to avoid l signalling as some kind of badge of superior training

When I did my motorbike lessons I found the systematic approach drummed into me improved my car driving a lot, so I'm all for a system. I think their approach was derived from the police "system"


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## DaveReading (4 Aug 2020)

Profpointy said:


> Now all that said I don't subscribe to the avoiding signalling if there's no one to see it rule



If that really was a rule I'd abide by it.

But it isn't, and I don't. 

If I manoeuvre, I signal, and the suggestion that that implies reduced situational awareness is absurd.


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## RichardB (5 Aug 2020)

Globalti said:


> More likely the driver was distracted by a touch-screen. Auto Express reports that accident and death rates are creeping up in the UK despite better road design and MPs are worried that touch-screen distraction may be the reason.


A touch screen in a car is an abomination and they should be banned by law. :-) A touch screen in your hand (like a phone) is one thing, but in a car it's probably at arm's length from you and you need to concentrate hard (and look at when you're doing) to get anywhere. I was trying to choose some music in my wife's car this morning and it was difficult enough (brace fingers against surround, try to dab at the correct icon, curse when screen scrolls because it senses a finger nearby, whoops, that pothole nearly selected the wrong one), and I was in the passenger seat, not driving! Really inappropriate use of technology.


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## sheddy (5 Aug 2020)

Distant neighbour was telling me that he wouldn’t have bought the car if he’d known that heater controls are all via touch screen.


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## Globalti (5 Aug 2020)

We have hired a couple of cars recently with touch screens that were so complicated we couldn't figure out how they worked. Imagine trying to do that while driving.


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## Johnno260 (7 Aug 2020)

Again another auto pilot idiot today while I was in the car, I stopped outside the local bakery, and the lady in her Quashqi basically followed me into the space, then leant on the horn when some on-coming traffic cleared.

I got out the car and she started mouthing off asking wtf did I think I was doing, I said I indicated and parked and because she was paying zero attention and tailgating she had left herself no other option but to back up, I can’t say what she called me, but I said sorry don’t blame me for your lack of observation and driving ability, so I was then a chauvinistic pig, I said if pointing out you payed little to no attention means I’m chauvinistic sure, but you still can’t drive.


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## oypolloy (7 Aug 2020)

I used to work for a Fiat dealer so quite often would drive a Fiat Panda. Many times when I could see the whites of their eyes looking at me, they would still pull out, junctions, roundabouts etc. Would often almost cause an accident just to get in front of me. People assume certain cars are driven by old, slow and incompetent pensioners.


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## oldwheels (7 Aug 2020)

recumbentpanda said:


> Third time now out of four journeys. Turning off into a side road, a shout from the car behind. “You don’t have to go everywhere at five miles an hour!”
> 
> I was doing, until that manoeuvre, 20.
> In a 20 zone.
> ...


Yes but IME most seem to read that as 50 not 20.


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## Badger_Boom (7 Aug 2020)

oypolloy said:


> I used to work for a Fiat dealer so quite often would drive a Fiat Panda. Many times when I could see the whites of their eyes looking at me, they would still pull out, junctions, roundabouts etc. Would often almost cause an accident just to get in front of me. People assume certain cars are driven by old, slow and incompetent pensioners.


We used to get this in our Morris Minor. People didn’t seem to realise that getting up to speed with modern traffic wasn’t a problem, but _stopping_ was. It did occasionally work to our advantage - on more than one occasion a copper with a handheld speed camer dropped his ‘weapon’ because he naively assumed we couldn't be speeding.


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