# A review of PedalCell, an impressive new rim dynamo



## raybo (21 Aug 2021)

I just finished testing of the PedalCell, a new rim dynamo that is designed to charge USB devices while you ride. I was impressed by how much charge it delivered. If you tour with USB-chargeable devices, this dynamo will keep them in electricity without requiring you to plug them into wall outlets.

Here is a quick summary: Every time I rode with the PedalCell, my iPhone ended up with more power at the end of the ride than when I started, no matter what apps I ran on it or how long I rode. My estimate is that it added 20% charge to my new iPhone 12 per hour of riding. 

I written up my findings in a detailed review of the device for those who want more information, including photos and numbers.


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## IaninSheffield (21 Aug 2021)

Excellent, thoroughly detailed review. Thanks.
If you've ever used one, do you have a sense of how the PedalCell compares with a hub dynamo in terms of performance? (I appreciate that the two different devices will have their own pros and cons depending on their different use cases) Thanks.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Aug 2021)

I used to charge from SON hub Dynamo . Used to take 3 hours to charge my Sansung Galaxy from flat. But can’t remember what battery capacity that phone was.


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## mjr (21 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I used to charge from SON hub Dynamo . Used to take 3 hours to charge my Sansung Galaxy from flat. But can’t remember what battery capacity that phone was.


Can you remember which of the 57 varieties of Galaxy it was, even?

But anyway, most hub dynamos are 6V 3W, so divide the Wh of the phone battery by 3, ignore the difference between 6V and USB's 5V and round up (a crude allowance for charger inefficiency) and that's the minimum charging time in hours, if the phone can fast charge from a varying supply. I think many people prefer to charge a power bank instead of a phone because phones often chime when the current stops momentarily.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Aug 2021)

mjr said:


> Can you remember which of the 57 varieties of Galaxy it was, even?
> 
> But anyway, most hub dynamos are 6V 3W, so divide the Wh of the phone battery by 3, ignore the difference between 6V and USB's 5V and round up (a crude allowance for charger inefficiency) and that's the minimum charging time in hours, if the phone can fast charge from a varying supply. I think many people prefer to charge a power bank instead of a phone because phones often chime when the current stops momentarily.



Most batteries aren’t rated in Wh . Least they didn’t used to be.


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## mjr (21 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Most batteries aren’t rated in Wh . Least they didn’t used to be.


If I remember rightly, most recent mobile phone batteries are 3.7V so times the amp-hour by that to get the Wh.


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## raybo (22 Aug 2021)

IaninSheffield said:


> If you've ever used one, do you have a sense of how the PedalCell compares with a hub dynamo in terms of performance? (I appreciate that the two different devices will have their own pros and cons depending on their different use cases) Thanks.



I haven't ever used a hub dynamo, so I can't really respond to your question. Sorry.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Aug 2021)

mjr said:


> If I remember rightly, most recent mobile phone batteries are 3.7V so times the amp-hour by that to get the Wh.



and the charging is provided over USB so different voltage again.


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## Baldy (22 Aug 2021)

Are these available over here or do you need to order from the US?


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## mjr (22 Aug 2021)

The main weakness of tyre dynamos was a tendency to slip in wet or frosty weather once the dynamo track became worn. How does the pedalcell perform in those conditions?


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## raybo (22 Aug 2021)

Baldy said:


> Are these available over here or do you need to order from the US?



I live in the US. I don't know if they are available elsewhere. Check the website: https://pedalcell.com .



mjr said:


> The main weakness of tyre dynamos was a tendency to slip in wet or frosty weather once the dynamo track became worn. How does the pedalcell perform in those conditions?



I haven't ridden with the PedalCell in the rain. I never experienced a slippage when I was testing it, but, again, this was in "normal" riding conditions. I did go through water here and then, but that isn't what you are talking about. One of the video reviews on the PedalCell website shows a guy riding single track in all kinds of conditions. He doesn't mention slippage problems.

Note that the O-ring that sits against the wheel is replaceable. So, if slippage due to wear was a problem, replacing the O-ring might fix it.


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## KnittyNorah (22 Aug 2021)

The company seems happy to ship internationally and has sensible policies in place for it.


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## Milkfloat (23 Aug 2021)

Not exactly cheap is it? I cannot see too many people on long distance tours spending that amount of money that clamps on and is vulnerable to damage from knocks.


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## neil_merseyside (23 Aug 2021)

How much? Velocharger and hub dynamo (yes I know it's actually an alternator) is a good bit cheaper even without the shipping and import taxes/duties, or DIY this:- https://www.instructables.com/10-BICYCLE-USB-CHARGER/ the circuit is easy enough, the plastic about a tenner to get 3D printed.


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## mjr (23 Aug 2021)

raybo said:


> Note that the O-ring that sits against the wheel is replaceable. So, if slippage due to wear was a problem, replacing the O-ring might fix it.


I would be more concerned about the tension of whatever springs presses the dynamo into the rim being insufficient for bad weather, reducing over time and increasing slippage. A rubber O-ring on metal sounds like lower grip than the rubber on tyre of a bottle dynamo and slippage was a problem in extreme conditions there.


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## rogerzilla (23 Aug 2021)

It's HUGE. I know it has more power than a hub dynamo, but the bulk would put me off. Also, if it's producing 12W then it's probably taking 20W from your legs, and that's not reasonable on a long ride.


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## MichaelW2 (23 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> It's HUGE. I know it has more power than a hub dynamo, but the bulk would put me off. Also, if it's producing 12W then it's probably taking 20W from your legs, and that's not reasonable on a long ride.


I use a high grade bottle dynamo and a Shimano dynohub. Both have typical 3W output. If this unit outputs 12w is there anything super high efficiency in the generator or does it just produce 4x resistance of a high grade dynamo ( Nordlicht).

I fixed my bottle dynamo using a braze on positioned on the leading ( not trailing) side to add to the traction. I had very poor experiences of clamp on mounts esp on the trailing side.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Aug 2021)

More comprehensive review here 

https://translate.google.com/transl.../30/steckdose-unterwegs-8/#pedalcell-cadencex


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## PedalCell (23 Aug 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Not exactly cheap is it? I cannot see too many people on long distance tours spending that amount of money that clamps on and is vulnerable to damage from knocks.



We used aluminum and fiberglass-reinforced nylon (the same stuff used on car panels) with 11 moisture-resistant seals. Once installed properly, you'd have to get into a serious accident to damage PedalCell. As a reference, one of our inventors was testing PedalCell on his road bike a few years back at 20+ MPH. He hit a pothole, was thrown off, and broke his wrist. Not a scratch on PedalCell though. 

We didn't design it to be cheap, though it is about 1/2 the price of a full dynamo wheel build (while offering 3X the charging performance). 



neil_merseyside said:


> How much? Velocharger and hub dynamo (yes I know it's actually an alternator) is a good bit cheaper even without the shipping and import taxes/duties, or DIY this:- https://www.instructables.com/10-BICYCLE-USB-CHARGER/ the circuit is easy enough, the plastic about a tenner to get 3D printed.


Can you explain your math? Velocharger + a quality dyno hub wheelbuild will cost easily over $450 USD. PedalCell is $299.



mjr said:


> I would be more concerned about the tension of whatever springs presses the dynamo into the rim being insufficient for bad weather, reducing over time and increasing slippage. A rubber O-ring on metal sounds like lower grip than the rubber on tyre of a bottle dynamo and slippage was a problem in extreme conditions there.


Fair concern! To be honest, all rim dynamos have had issues with debris and moisture. Designing to operate on the tyre has a ton of downsides with noise and wearing down sidewalls (not fun!). Was a very difficult problem to solve. Power dropouts from rim debris are rare and go unnoticed with PedalCell thanks to our mechanical and electrical design. Our Generator's spring and o-ring are spec'd to maintain grip in wet conditions as well as operate around debris. Ask any of our customers about the force of our spring and it's obvious why there is rarely any slippage. In the case of lost power, PedalCell's CadenceX technology with supercapacitors operates as a backup to supplement charge until contact is made. TL;DR there are no drop-outs with PedalCell.


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## PedalCell (23 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> It's HUGE. I know it has more power than a hub dynamo, but the bulk would put me off. Also, if it's producing 12W then it's probably taking 20W from your legs, and that's not reasonable on a long ride.


The majority of our size is attributed to our clamp, which needs to fit onto different size forks. Though, our weight tends to be lighter than a dynamo hub build and, more importantly, can be installed/uninstalled as needed. Also, PedalCell hardly stands out when placed next to all of the bags, racks, panniers, etc. that adventure riders use.


MichaelW2 said:


> I use a high grade bottle dynamo and a Shimano dynohub. Both have typical 3W output. If this unit outputs 12w is there anything super high efficiency in the generator or does it just produce 4x resistance of a high grade dynamo ( Nordlicht).



Yes, PedalCell has about double the efficiency of any rim/hub dynamo per this testing, making it quite low drag. Most riders don't notice the drag due to:
- Dynamic output: PedalCell changes its power output based on your speed and device power needs. For example, if your phone is almost fully charged with the screen off, it will output a smaller amount of power. Or, if you're pedaling along at a slow pace, PedalCell will not deliver its peak power output (15-20W)
- Mechanical decoupling: Users can completely disconnect PedalCell from the rim when not needed, thus eliminating all mechanical drag.
- 3W lock: PedalCell’s Prioritized port locks max output at 3W when used alone for power-conscious rides.


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## neil_merseyside (23 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> Can you explain your math? Velocharger + a quality dyno hub wheelbuild will cost easily over $450 USD. PedalCell is $299.



https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m12b0s208p3515/ADEPT-ELECTRONICS-VeloCharger-for-Hub-Dynamo

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s170p3038/SPA-CYCLES-SP-PD-8-Disc-Dynamo-Wheel

In your world maybe, not here in the real world, and no danger of slippage of the O-ring


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## Baldy (24 Aug 2021)

An interesting idea, I can see some use for something like this. That it can be swoped between bike and doesn't need any permanent fittings is a good point in my book. I wouldn't mind seeing one in the flesh but at that price plus import duty, it's not going to happen.


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## Blue Hills (24 Aug 2021)

Baldy said:


> An interesting idea, I can see some use for something like this. That it can be swoped between bike and doesn't need any permanent fittings is a good point in my book. I wouldn't mind seeing one in the flesh but at that price plus import duty, it's not going to happen.


A dynamo front wheel can of course also be swapped pretty easily. If same wheel size of course.


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## Baldy (24 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> A dynamo front wheel can of course also be swapped pretty easily. If same wheel size of course.


I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand without even seeing one. Just saying that the cost of buying one importing it is very high for something on spec. Even if it is an interesting idea.


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## HobbesOnTour (25 Aug 2021)

That's a comprehensive review and now that I've read it I'm a little less sceptical.

Personally, I'd never charge anything expensive from a variable source such as dynamo.
I do wonder if Android phones use the same charging communication technology as an iphone?
I've tried an iPhone 4, various androids, a garmin, wahoo and a kindle and prefer now to charge a powerbank. 
Garmins can be very unreliable from hub dynamos - has anyone tested one out on this system?

For anyone thinking of this as a way to power a phone that is on your handlebars consider the risk of a fall or crash that could easily smash your phone just as you may need it the most.
Phones can be unusable in wet weather (or sweaty weather!) and hot, direct sunlight can cause your phone to switch off.
Consider also that the socket for your cable is not designed for the bumpiness of bike travel and you may end up with a damaged and unchargeable phone.
There's also the attraction of a nice, shiny phone on display to thieves. 

The idea of the unit falling into the wheel is horrifying and a touring bike can hit a lot of bumps. Or at least mine does

I'm curious too if the "smart hub" can be removed easily (for security) and what happens to the cabling? 

I don't have the bandwidth to explore the site fully but are there reviews of long term use? 
A Son 28 is guaranteed for 5 years and I can personally vouch for that as well as having the ability to return and be refurbished for a reasonable fee. I see that expenditure as an investment, not a cost.


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## IaninSheffield (25 Aug 2021)

There's another fairly extensive review here at road.cc.



HobbesOnTour said:


> That's a comprehensive review and now that I've read it I'm a little less sceptical.


Me too.
Having fairly recently built a hub dynamo wheel for touring, if I'd been aware of the Pedalcell, I'd have given it serious consideration I think.


HobbesOnTour said:


> The idea of the unit falling into the wheel is horrifying and a touring bike can hit a lot of bumps.


From the reviews and from the images of the mounting bracket therein, I suspect that the likelihood of this is reassuringly small.
Although it's a rare occurence for most of us most of the time (and therefore perhaps can discounted in most touring scenarios), what would having a Pedalcell have been like in your recent muddy episode? Not thinking about charging, but simply managing and clearing the overwhelming amount of mud.


HobbesOnTour said:


> I'm curious too if the "smart hub" can be removed easily (for security) and what happens to the cabling


Again, from the image in the road.cc review, it looks like it has a connector which allows this.


HobbesOnTour said:


> I don't have the bandwidth to explore the site fully but are there reviews of long term use


Given the fairly recent launch (2019/20), I suspect probably not.


HobbesOnTour said:


> A Son 28 is guaranteed for 5 years and I can personally vouch for that as well as having the ability to return and be refurbished for a reasonable fee


But then you've temporarily lost your wheel, no? If a Pedalcell fails, at least the tour can continue, charging of nav devices notwithstanding.
The Pedalcell warranty appears to be 2 years.

Personally, I think the cleaner lines of a dyno hub, and needing one fewer additional 'bolt-on' devices just about sways me.
But the apparent efficiency gains of the Pedalcell over a dyno hub, together with the ease and simplicity with which the device can be completely disengaged when needed, are very compelling.

If only I'd been able to tour properly over the past 18 months, I'd have a much better idea of how my dyno hub suits the way that I tour. And I think that's what it comes down to in the end - what is my *most likely* use case, *most* of the time? As opposed to trying to think of 'edge' cases where one device or the other would be less suitable than the other.


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## Tenkaykev (25 Aug 2021)

I fitted the Brompton dynamo wheel kit a couple of years ago. SP8 dynamo. It came with as a fully built wheel with rim tape, wiring loom and a couple of ( basic) dynamo lights. I’m very pleased with it, upgraded the front light and it’s been outstanding. I paid £150 which I thought was a good deal.


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## HobbesOnTour (25 Aug 2021)

IaninSheffield said:


> There's another fairly extensive review here at road.cc.


 Thanks



IaninSheffield said:


> Me too.
> Having fairly recently built a hub dynamo wheel for touring, if I'd been aware of the Pedalcell, I'd have given it serious consideration I think.



I'd have considered it too. But probably gone with a hub. (I upgraded from a Shimano dynohub to Son for the added protection and service for a long trip. That was a smart move!)

Now, if @PedalCell were to develop a more slimline adapter thingy between hub and chargepoint I could benefit from the advantages of a hub and their new tech.


IaninSheffield said:


> From the reviews and from the images of the mounting bracket therein, I suspect that the likelihood of this is reassuringly small.


It's big, it's bulky, it's got a powerful spring..... if something does go wrong not going into the wheel is unlikely.
On tour, a bike can get into a lot of situations that it doesn't normally.
At least mine does!😊
(It's about to go on its second sea crossing!)



IaninSheffield said:


> Although it's a rare occurence for most of us most of the time (and therefore perhaps can discounted in most touring scenarios), what would having a Pedalcell have been like in your recent muddy episode? Not thinking about charging, but simply managing and clearing the overwhelming amount of mud.



That would have been a test! Given the quantity and the stickiness I'd guess removal, cleaning and reattaching - at the very least.
Of more concern, a fallen bike a few days later.


IaninSheffield said:


> Again, from the image in the road.cc review, it looks like it has a connector which allows this.


That would be important for non touring. I wonder about the cabling, though.



IaninSheffield said:


> Given the fairly recent launch (2019/20), I suspect probably not.


I was going to offer my services but given my style decided it's safer for all parties😊




IaninSheffield said:


> But then you've temporarily lost your wheel, no? If a Pedalcell fails, at least the tour can continue, charging of nav devices notwithstanding.
> The Pedalcell warranty appears to be 2 years.


Well, not really. A hub dynamo that stops producing electricity is still a hub. It's my call whether to replace or not.
Also, Son have a worldwide network of agents. I dealt exclusively with the agent after my mishap.


IaninSheffield said:


> Personally, I think the cleaner lines of a dyno hub, and needing one fewer additional 'bolt-on' devices just about sways me.



That would be my way if thinking too. Versatility as well. Switching from a bikepacking to touring set up may well be easier with a hub.



IaninSheffield said:


> But the apparent efficiency gains of the Pedalcell over a dyno hub, together with the ease and simplicity with which the device can be completely disengaged when needed, are very compelling.


Here's the thing;
Yes, it appears to be more efficient but how much efficiency* do we really need?
I'd only ever have my phone as a navigation device in an emergency.
I rarely play music.
I use a gps and a kindle. GPS is good for three days, the Kindle typically for weeks.
Once I can replace the energy used I'm happy. A powerbank for backup/comfort.
I understand that others use their phones more as well as gopros and the like.

* Efficiency of the unit depends on angle of attachment. Can't quite get my head around that one.



IaninSheffield said:


> If only I'd been able to tour properly over the past 18 months, I'd have a much better idea of how my dyno hub suits the way that I tour. And I think that's what it comes down to in the end - what is my *most likely* use case, *most* of the time? As opposed to trying to think of 'edge' cases where one device or the other would be less suitable than the other.


If it seems like I'm trying to engage in a peeing contest, that the system I use is better than theirs, that's not my intention at all.

There's more to a charging system than efficiency in the same way that there's more to a bike than wheel size or weight to a tent.

I tend to think of "most of the time" but also consider the worst case scenario. Most of the time my phone would be fine on the handlebars.
That one time I fall and it smashes? Unlikely, but potentially serious.


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## Milkfloat (25 Aug 2021)

It would be nice if this claimed efficiency improvements could be built into a hub.
Maybe I am a luddite, but I would only consider charging battery packs using my bike, I just don’t trust the possibility of spikes ruining my expensive devices. On top of that there is the inherent risk of strapping expensive items, like phones, iPad and kindles to the bike. I would rather charge those in a safer manner.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Aug 2021)

It’s more a solution for the social media generation. My phones are switched off when on the move. They will go at least a week before needing a charge. If sleeping wild in a remote place then it’d have its uses. But in Europe or other places with access to cafes and campsites every couple of days. It’s no too hard to keep phone topped up enough. A fast charger with lightning cable and your iPhone can go from flat to charged in an hour in a cafe.


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## IaninSheffield (25 Aug 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Yes, it appears to be more efficient but how much efficiency* do we really need?


This an important point I feel. There's a couple of (promotional, but realistic?) videos of adventure cyclists who have put the Pedalcell to the test. And it clearly suited *their *high energy, multi-device needs, based on their varied and challenging riding conditions.

Similarly to Hobbes and Ming, I don't need inordinate amounts of energy, but I've found I do need more than a solar panel setup can provide, at least under the UK's less than reliable skies. However, I wonder just how much running a dynamo takes out of your legs? It's easy enough to look at the figures but what does that feel like during a 60 mile, 4000 feet day? Would there be a discernable difference between one system and the other? And how on earth would you measure that if you wanted to?


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## HobbesOnTour (25 Aug 2021)

IaninSheffield said:


> However, I wonder just how much running a dynamo takes out of your legs? It's easy enough to look at the figures but what does that feel like during a 60 mile, 4000 feet day? Would there be a discernable difference between one system and the other? And how on earth would you measure that if you wanted to?


They could send one to me!
I'm hardly going to notice any drag and since I have my hub & cycle2charge I can do a direct, simultaneous comparison

You're right of course. How can we measure the drag whether a dynamo, a hub or a tyre? A lot of it is psychology. Oooh! I'm going slow it must be that new hub/dynamo/Schwalbe.
Even the rating on a sleeping bag is subjective. If tired, I'm going to be colder.

There's a big picture in most of these types of decisions and the stats are only a part of it.


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## IaninSheffield (25 Aug 2021)

I wonder what the long term effects are, if any, of applying a continual(?)/cyclical(?) perpendicular force on one side of the rim of a wheel? On the rim? The spokes? The hub flange?
Guess it depends on the magnitude of the force, amogst other things.


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## PedalCell (25 Aug 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m12b0s208p3515/ADEPT-ELECTRONICS-VeloCharger-for-Hub-Dynamo
> 
> https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s170p3038/SPA-CYCLES-SP-PD-8-Disc-Dynamo-Wheel
> 
> In your world maybe, not here in the real world, and no danger of slippage of the O-ring


Thanks for clarifying. Slippage is a non-issue as explained by our user reviews. We've been proven in a multitude of off-road settings.

I got the $450 price via a SON28 hub at a UK retailer. SON is the most efficient/durable hub out there and is used as the primary comparison to PedalCell in 3rd party tests (in which PedalCell is shown to be 3X more powerful). SP dynamos are quite a bit cheaper but aren't an "apples-to-apples" performance comparison to PedalCell (buyers who value charging performance/efficiency). SPs are on the lower end of dynamo hub offerings with more drag and less charging performance than SON. 

Even still, PedalCell is the same price as the SP build you mention while offering faster charging and less drag per watt, not to mention the install advantages. If powering lights is your only priority then the SP build I'm sure works great (that's what they're designed for after all). Whatever works best for you!



HobbesOnTour said:


> Now, if @PedalCell were to develop a more slimline adapter thingy between hub and chargepoint I could benefit from the advantages of a hub and their new tech.
> 
> It's big, it's bulky, it's got a powerful spring..... if something does go wrong not going into the wheel is unlikely.
> 
> ...


Our new tech isn't just electronics and wouldn't offer many advantages to a hub. Every hub dynamo is designed around old German StVZO standards for powering lights. That's why their outputs are all 3W/6V. They work great for powering the lights they were designed for. BUT they were never made to power USB devices (which have higher power requirements). PedalCell is a bottom-up design for USB charging in every part of the system (deep integration between our electronics, software, and custom generator) which is why we have higher power output and better drag efficiency. We made our product because cyclists are using modern devices that are more capable and power-hungry without a power source to keep them topped off.

Efficiency is important when talking about higher power output. More efficiency means there's less power wasted from your legs. BUT the main difference that's easy to measure is PedalCell's higher power output: more charging at slow speeds and 3X more % overall. Efficiency doesn't solely depend on the angle of the Generator but we include that adjustment because different bikes have different geometries. You want the Generator running in line with the wheel to mitigate power loss.

Also FYI our clamp doesn't slip when installed properly onroad offroad etc. All reviews back this claim up. And IF someone didn't follow our directions and it did slip, the Generator puck hits the spokes first and will rotate around them. We tested this fail-safe. We have yet to have anyone crash because of a clamp failure. And a dynamo hub failure can absolutely be catastrophic if the bearings fail (which does happen and will seize your wheel).




Milkfloat said:


> It would be nice if this claimed efficiency improvements could be built into a hub.
> Maybe I am a luddite, but I would only consider charging battery packs using my bike, I just don’t trust the possibility of spikes ruining my expensive devices. On top of that there is the inherent risk of strapping expensive items, like phones, iPad and kindles to the bike. I would rather charge those in a safer manner.



Again, see the above answer. All hubs are inherently limited in their charging spec due to their German-regulated power output. That will likely never change as long as the laws exist. If you want faster USB charging PedalCell's proprietary system is the only way to go at the moment!

USB charging is quite tricky and dynamo unstable output can destroy devices (as many hub dyno chargers do). We published a whitepaper with cyclingabout.com that goes into detail on how we regulate USB charging in a safe manner. A peek behind the curtain. Highly recommend you read it here.



IaninSheffield said:


> Similarly to Hobbes and Ming, I don't need inordinate amounts of energy, but I've found I do need more than a solar panel setup can provide, at least under the UK's less than reliable skies. However, I wonder just how much running a dynamo takes out of your legs? It's easy enough to look at the figures but what does that feel like during a 60 mile, 4000 feet day? Would there be a discernable difference between one system and the other? And how on earth would you measure that if you wanted to?


Easy to measure; faster charging at slower speeds! A hub dynamo produces 3-5W of power output and only works well at 15 kmh+. An iPhone 11 pro comes with an 18W charging brick in the box. Modern devices have higher power requirements than hub dynamos are capable of supporting, especially if you're using your devices for GPS, tracking, etc. PedalCell produces 15-20W of power and starts working at ~8 kmh. Big difference at a typical touring pace.



HobbesOnTour said:


> You're right of course. How can we measure the drag whether a dynamo, a hub or a tyre? A lot of it is psychology. Oooh! I'm going slow it must be that new hub/dynamo/Schwalbe.
> Even the rating on a sleeping bag is subjective. If tired, I'm going to be colder.
> 
> There's a big picture in most of these types of decisions and the stats are only a part of it.



SON engineers already tested our drag here. PedalCell produces less drag per watt than a hub, which means you can charge faster without noticeably more drag. You're right in that when talking about a loaded bike, drag is minimal. In hub or PedalCell, you'll barely notice anything. What you will notice (and what really matters) is the charge rate and at what speed the charge is active (see answers above). PedalCell wipes the floor with all hubs in this area. Most of our riders increase their device usage with more tracking, GPS, taking photos, etc. when having access to PedalCell. Also the value of riding untethered from outlets in a coffee shop or gas station can't be understated!

Happy to keep answering questions!


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## Milkfloat (26 Aug 2021)

@PedalCell Thanks for all the information, especially where you show more detail than simple marketing. I really appreciate that you have joined the forum to contribute and provide detailed answers. Whilst your product is not for me right now, I will keep you in mind for the future and wish you success. If you can package the entire technology into a decent hub (perhaps in collaboration with SON), then I would be throwing money at you right now, and I expect a lot of other people would do the same.


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## KnittyNorah (26 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> PedalCell is $299.



Except that it's _not _$299.

The final cost will be _considerably_ more than the stated '$299'.

There are additional charges for shipping/postage of course, and then on arrival in the UK, there is 20% VAT of both the cost of the item AND the cost of the shipping/postage and insurance. There is a 'handling charge' of anything from £8 upwards which is payable to the delivery service, and there is an additional 2.5% (probably) import tax payable as the total value is greater than £135. 

I've found that courier companies are significantly more expensive than Royal Mail with regards to 'handling' fees, and some courier companies are apt to charge fees willy-nilly, even for items on which no clearance, VAT or import duties are chargeable. 

So the thing will cost $299 _plus a significant percentage more. _


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## Baldy (26 Aug 2021)

That's what's putting me off.


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## rogerzilla (26 Aug 2021)

If you actually want the additional power this offers over a hub dynamo, it's going to be noticeably draggy. The maximum 20W/68% is getting on for 30W, which is about a third of what a touring cyclist might develop at the end of a long day. Or do you only turn on high power downhill?

The real issue is that something like an iPhone 11 wants more power than can reasonably be delivered by a rider's legs. Better to put the phone into batteey-saving mode, and carry a camera.


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## Baldy (26 Aug 2021)

View: https://youtu.be/Sq1aj6d1H6o


This chap seemed to cope fairly well.


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## Richard Fairhurst (26 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> So the thing will cost $299 _plus a significant percentage more. _



Maybe @PedalCell could set up a UK distributor?


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## raybo (26 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> The real issue is that something like an iPhone 11 wants more power than can reasonably be delivered by a rider's legs. Better to put the phone into battery-saving mode, and carry a camera.



I have an iPhone 12 and on a 3.5 hour ride fully loaded on my touring bike, I can charge it about 70% using the PedalCell. Though, this with wi-fi and navigation turned off and cell service on, plus audio and Bluetooth. I ride at 10MPH.


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## PedalCell (26 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Except that it's _not _$299.
> 
> The final cost will be _considerably_ more than the stated '$299'.
> 
> ...





Richard Fairhurst said:


> Maybe @PedalCell could set up a UK distributor?



We do have a UK dealer here. Avoids many of the fees you mention. We clearly disclose on our site's shipping policy that the prices do not include import fees. We are working on opening warehouses closer to our EU and UK customers to help with these fees (we have 0 control over them, are at the will of your government, and can vary from customer to customer). It's worth noting that even when accounting for import fees, PedalCell is still less expensive and higher performing than a comparable hub wheel build. We get close to more orders from the UK than the USA, which should tell you something


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## KnittyNorah (26 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> We do have a UK dealer here. Avoids many of the fees you mention. We are working on opening warehouses closer to our EU and UK customers to help with these fees (as they are controlled by your government and can vary from customer to customer). It's worth noting that even when accounting for import fees, PedalCell is still less expensive and higher performing than a comparable hub wheel build. We get close more orders from the UK than the USA, which should tell you something



As I said, significantly more than the $299 you have quoted as the cost. 

I have no interest in a dynamo of any sort ; it would be overkill for my style of riding. But to see an item's price quoted, more than once, at $299 - instead of the almost $450 which is the _actual _cost in the UK (around £215 compared to £325), ie more than half as much again - is a bit too much for me to accept without comment.


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## PedalCell (26 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> If you actually want the additional power this offers over a hub dynamo, it's going to be noticeably draggy. The maximum 20W/68% is getting on for 30W, which is about a third of what a touring cyclist might develop at the end of a long day. Or do you only turn on high power downhill?
> 
> The real issue is that something like an iPhone 11 wants more power than can reasonably be delivered by a rider's legs. Better to put the phone into batteey-saving mode, and carry a camera.



Good point, but not entirely true. You'll notice in our reviews that riders don't notice the drag any more than a typical hub dynamo, despite getting faster charging rates at slower speeds.

This is because:
1. Efficiency: PedalCell has 2-3X less drag per watt than most other dynamos, meaning that for a given amount of power, there is 2-3X less drag.​2. Dynamic output: PedalCell changes its power output based on your speed and device power needs. For example, if your phone is almost fully charged with the screen off, it will output a smaller amount of power. Or, *if you're pedaling along at a slow pace* (up a hill, touring, etc.), PedalCell *will not deliver its peak power output* (15-20W).​3. Mechanical decoupling: Users can completely disconnect PedalCell from the rim when not needed, thus eliminating all mechanical drag.​4. 3W lock: PedalCell’s Prioritized port locks max output at 3W when used alone for power-conscious rides.​​Our product does add 100% drag all of the time. Our firmware is always analyzing device power needs, speed, acceleration etc., and adjusting power output when needed. This intelligence was added to avoid the unnecessary drag you're referencing while taking advantage of our faster charging rates.


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## FishFright (26 Aug 2021)

Britain today - Whatever you do , whatever you work on , whatever ideal you have half the replies will tell you did it wrong, no one needs one, such and such can do it cheaper and best of all is the near infinite list of Yeah Buts. 

Seriously is there any point in trying to work with or sell anything to the UK ?


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## Baldy (26 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> We do have a UK dealer here.


Thanks for this, still quite expensive but I'll think about it.


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## IaninSheffield (26 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> But to see an item's price quoted, more than once, at $299 - instead of the almost $450 which is the _actual _cost in the UK (around £215 compared to £325), ie more than half as much again - is a bit too much for me to accept without comment.


It is important to comment, especially to help potential purchasers who might not have fully thought things through. However, I'd also add that on an international forum (albeit it one with a UK bias), surely that calculation is incumbent on the potential purchaser, rather than the OP or manufacturer? If they were tempted by the device, forum members in the EU, Africa, Asia, Oceania etc would factor the additional costs into their calculations wouldn't they?

I didn't get the impression at any stage that Ray (the OP) or Pedalcell were being disingenuous, given that they're both based in the US. I assume they were just quoting the cost based on their local currency, in the same way that when selling through 'For Sale and Auction', most folks on here will quote in £.


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## neil_merseyside (26 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> We get close to more orders from the UK than the USA, which should tell you something


That you sold 1 in the USA (the O.P. to the thread) and 1 in the uk and you might sell another? 
That's close to more isn't it


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## rogerzilla (26 Aug 2021)

"Efficiency: PedalCell has 2-3X less drag per watt than most other dynamos, meaning that for a given amount of power, there is 2-3X less drag"

So if a decent hub is 60% efficient, PedalCell is 80-87% efficient?


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## PedalCell (26 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> "Efficiency: PedalCell has 2-3X less drag per watt than most other dynamos, meaning that for a given amount of power, there is 2-3X less drag"


We quote the "up to 2X more efficient" numbers as end-to-end (hub + USB charger). The hub efficiency numbers that are quoted by OEMs, such as that 60% #, do not account for a loss in USB charging. We have a graph on our site that shows some common comparisons that were from this testing. Most hubs hover in the 30-50% range for USB charging. PedalCell peaks at 70%+. 



neil_merseyside said:


> That you sold 1 in the USA (the O.P. to the thread) and 1 in the uk and you might sell another?
> That's close to more isn't it


Lol, definitely not. Ray was provided a review unit for his site so that would be 0 and 0 in your comparasion  

In all seriousness, we're about to be out of stock (for the 3rd time this season) in the coming week. Our biggest issue at the moment is making enough!


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## KnittyNorah (26 Aug 2021)

IaninSheffield said:


> It is important to comment, especially to help potential purchasers who might not have fully thought things through. However, I'd also add that on an international forum (albeit it one with a UK bias), surely that calculation is incumbent on the potential purchaser, rather than the OP or manufacturer?



Everything (or almost everything!) on't'interwebz is international, or runs the risk of being so, but what I found a little disingenous, to be honest, was the repeated claim of the $299 price, when the OP was surely aware that their UK distributor did not have it available at anything like that price (which is fair enough, and right and proper, given their investment of time, trouble, money and risk in the importation process alone). It's probably no more expensive - it might even be a few ££ cheaper - and certainly a lot less hassle and risk, to buy from the importer than directly!


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## neil_merseyside (26 Aug 2021)

PedalCell said:


> Lol, definitely not. Ray was provided a review unit for his site so that would be 0 and 0 in your comparasion
> In all seriousness, we're about to be out of stock (for the 3rd time this season) in the coming week. Our biggest issue at the moment is making enough!


I never clicked Ray's link to realise you'd effectively bought the review by supplying a freebie! I've heard this happens with influencers (whatever they are) but to see it is rather distasteful to me. What a low rent way to get an advert.
You really need to send one to Conrad and then we'll have an idea if it's actually any good.


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## neil_merseyside (26 Aug 2021)

Rather worrying that Ray mounted the thing behind the front forks so it could stop the front wheel dead if it deflected inwards, always mount stuff in front of the fork so stuff deflects out out not inwards [1], I know pannier racks leave no room for proper mounting but you really don't want to be chewing tarmac with an artic/18 wheeler up your chuff/ass. 
Tapered tubes and thus safe mounting to them are a risk, a hub dynamo with even a tiny chance of a bearing failure causing a full seize seems so much safer [2]

[1] I do see lots of bikes (roadies and full on tourers) with a speedo sender behind the fork, though these are more benign as the tend to erm lets say 'disassemble' without any great issue, except for the odd spoke. [3]
[2] Anyone ever had a dyno hub stop dead and cause an endo?
[3] How many have just been off to check?


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## HobbesOnTour (27 Aug 2021)

Thanks for engaging on this thread. For the sake of transparency I reported your first posts. 
I do hope that since you are using this site in a commercial way that you have paid the (ironic in this case) advertising removal subscription



PedalCell said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Slippage is a non-issue as explained by our user reviews. We've been proven in a multitude of off-road settings.


Some questions:
How long is the product in existence?
How many of those reviews paid for the product?



PedalCell said:


> Our new tech isn't just electronics and wouldn't offer many advantages to a hub. ......
> PedalCell is a bottom-up design for USB charging in every part of the system (deep integration between our electronics, software, and custom generator) which is why we have higher power output and better drag efficiency.


Frankly, the thought of a device like yours strapped to my front fork scares the bejaysus out of me. 
It also seems that a key component in your offering is some smart communications technology. 
If you could marry that with a hub I would be interested.




PedalCell said:


> Also FYI our clamp doesn't slip when installed properly onroad offroad etc. All reviews back this claim up. And IF someone didn't follow our directions and it did slip, the Generator puck hits the spokes first and will rotate around them. We tested this fail-safe. We have yet to have anyone crash because of a clamp failure.


I'm starting to be turned off here.

Your claim is highly dependent on the quantity of units out there, the length of time out there and if the reviewer has received a free one.

Ever had a dog snapping at your ankles on a bike? My foot would go exactly to where your product would be on my fork to give him a good kick.

Someone who wanted to slow me down or stop me outright could do so with a well timed kick.



PedalCell said:


> And a dynamo hub failure can absolutely be catastrophic if the bearings fail (which does happen and will seize your wheel).


That's just over the top.
Bearing failure has nothing to do with electrical generation. 
Perhaps long term use of a dynamo such as yours reduces rim strength leading to catastrophic failure?



PedalCell said:


> Again, see the above answer. All hubs are inherently limited in their charging spec due to their German-regulated power output. *That will likely never change as long as the laws exist*. If you want faster USB charging PedalCell's proprietary system is the only way to go at the moment!


I wouldn't bet on that!



PedalCell said:


> Most of our riders increase their device usage with more tracking, GPS, taking photos, etc. when having access to PedalCell.


On a lighter note that's another reason for me not to want one!

For me, efficiency is only one aspect.
Simplicity of use is another.
Discretion is important. I've a Son hub and a Cycle2Charge unit. Someone might recognise the hub but the chargepoint is mistaken for a bell - on or off the bike.
Lifespan is another. The expensive part of my system (hub) is guaranteed for five years and can be serviced after that. (They honoured their guarantee when I was dumb enough to ride into a drain in Mexico - even in the midst of a pandemic). 
Theoretically, it's a lifetime product. 
I said earlier I view it as an investment - not a cost. 
My charging unit is cheap and simple. I carry a spare cable for it. Something better on the market and I can upgrade just that.
What is the expected life span of your product?

In the meantime, PedalCell 2 should be based on a hub in my opinion.


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## HobbesOnTour (27 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> As I said, significantly more than the $299 you have quoted as the cost.
> 
> I have no interest in a dynamo of any sort ; it would be overkill for my style of riding. But to see an item's price quoted, more than once, at $299 - instead of the almost $450 which is the _actual _cost in the UK (around £215 compared to £325), ie more than half as much again - is a bit too much for me to accept without comment.


I'm Irish.
When he first posted I was in Costa Rica. Now I'm in Panamá.
Is the poor chap supposed to know the prices in all those markets too? And list them? It would be an awfully boring response!

Yes, headline price can be misleading but someone on a touring forum surely can understand the difference?


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## KnittyNorah (27 Aug 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I'm Irish.
> When he first posted I was in Costa Rica. Now I'm in Panamá.
> Is the poor chap supposed to know the prices in all those markets too? And list them? It would be an awfully boring response!
> 
> Yes, headline price can be misleading but someone on a touring forum surely can understand the difference?



Pushing the ONLY $299!!! aspect (which is even in the post providing the link to the UK distributor who of course is totally open about the cost) is, I feel, somewhat disingenuous, as explained earlier.


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## FishFright (27 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Pushing the ONLY $299!!! aspect (which is even in the post providing the link to the UK distributor who of course is totally open about the cost) is, I feel, somewhat disingenuous, as explained earlier.



A U.S product sold in the U.S. and they have the cheek to price it in dollars , what's the world coming to?


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Aug 2021)

I had a quick read through the OPs review and at no point does he say he got it as freebie. (Edit - Ah found he does but buried deep in the article). He should be up front if he hasn’t paid for the item with his own money. I’m much less inclined to pay attention to a review where the author hasn’t actually bought the item. A freebie generates a conflict of interest in terms of what you say in a review about the item.


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## Richard Fairhurst (27 Aug 2021)

To be fair, it's absolutely standard practice in magazine reviews and has been since year dot. I used to edit a waterway magazine... we wouldn't have got very far if we had to spend £150,000 on a new narrowboat to review every month!

Whether the reviewer gets to keep the item afterwards generally depends on the value. If it's a £10 book they won't ask for it back, if it's a £150,000 narrowboat they, sadly, do. (Shame, I would have quite liked a free boat.) The PedalCell is somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn't consider it particularly unusual for the reviewer to keep it.


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## HobbesOnTour (27 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I had a quick read through the OPs review and at no point does he say he got it as freebie. (Edit - Ah found he does but buried deep in the article). He should be up front if he hasn’t paid for the item with his own money. I’m much less inclined to pay attention to a review where the author hasn’t actually bought the item. A freebie generates a conflict of interest in terms of what you say in a review about the item.


Indeed, I believe there are rules (and possibly laws in some jurisdictions) about clearly marking Social Media content if sponsorship is involved.

I'm aware of the op from other fora but a long dormant account coming back to life with a review is unusual.
The producer chiming in soon after smacks of a "campaign". 
(Ironic too given their supply issues)

As @Richard Fairhurst says it's quite a common practice and I do wonder if there's some conflict between a US and non-US sales/promotion approach?
I think a more up front, transparent approach would suit this forum better.
For example $299 plus import charges. 
And a clear expression that the product was a freebie.
And not used in the rain!


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## neil_merseyside (27 Aug 2021)

Richard Fairhurst said:


> To be fair, it's absolutely standard practice in magazine reviews and has been since year dot. I used to edit a waterway magazine... we wouldn't have got very far if we had to spend £150,000 on a new narrowboat to review every month!
> 
> Whether the reviewer gets to keep the item afterwards generally depends on the value. If it's a £10 book they won't ask for it back, if it's a £150,000 narrowboat they, sadly, do. (Shame, I would have quite liked a free boat.) The PedalCell is somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn't consider it particularly unusual for the reviewer to keep it.



Oh come on a magazine review stuff is bound to be supplied for testing, and why I don't trust magazine reviews that much. On a forum it is a different matter and so this is just seedy back door advertising and with vague numbers. 
As a side note I thought US-UK exchange rate covered the difference in markets so $299 becomes £299.


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## raybo (27 Aug 2021)

So I'm being attacked for writing a review of a new product that several people on this thread didn't know about and appreciation reading? I'm also being attacked for not being "up front" that I got a review copy of the device in order to write the review? I wrote this: "(Disclosure: I was sent one for free after I requested one to review)" in the review. Should I have started the review with this? Put it in bold? I wasn't paid, I have no affiliation with the company. I am a bike tourist who has a website that contains no paid advertising and that makes me no money. In fact, it costs me hundreds of dollars (excuse the use of my national currency) a year. I want to promote bike touring and am trying to help people who want to travel by bicycle.

Do people who extol the virtues of their bicycles or other equipment need to disclose how much (and in which currency) they paid for something before writing about it?

I maintain an archive of bike touring information. I read about a dozen forums everyday, including this one. I rarely post in any of them. Is this a problem?


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## neil_merseyside (27 Aug 2021)

raybo said:


> I'm also being attacked for not being "up front" that I got a review copy of the device in order to write the review?
> 
> I wrote this: "(Disclosure: I was sent one for free after I requested one to review)" in the review.
> 
> ...


Picked out 4 bits above
Why not be upfront? you wouldn't have been 'attacked' if you'd been clear.
Disclosure was very buried, and clearly didn't work too well did it?
Yes why not? I didn't realise you had a website to promote as I don't do signatures, so I thought you'd posted a completely independent review for something you'd paid hard earned U$D for. A magazine review would be treated with scepticism by me as they pander to advertisers - seems you operate in a similar way in furnishing reviews of freebies.

*Bold, *underline or _italics_ might do individually, but all three *takes only 3 clicks.*


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## KnittyNorah (27 Aug 2021)

FishFright said:


> A U.S product sold in the U.S. and they have the cheek to price it in dollars , what's the world coming to?



A product being marketed to a largely-UK-centric group, with a fair sprinkling of other Europeans ... almost all countries where VAT, import taxes and the like reign supreme. 
How odd that the price clearly stated on the UK/European distributor's website - which takes account of these important costs, which are not optional extras in any way - is not the price quoted ... hmmmmmmmmmm ...


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## classic33 (27 Aug 2021)

raybo said:


> I just finished testing of the PedalCell, a new rim dynamo that is designed to charge USB devices while you ride. I was impressed by how much charge it delivered. If you tour with USB-chargeable devices, this dynamo will keep them in electricity without requiring you to plug them into wall outlets.
> 
> Here is a quick summary: Every time I rode with the PedalCell, my iPhone ended up with more power at the end of the ride than when I started, no matter what apps I ran on it or how long I rode. My estimate is that it added 20% charge to my new iPhone 12 per hour of riding.
> 
> I written up my findings in a detailed review of the device for those who want more information, including photos and numbers.


Same review, word for word has appeared on a number of sites, often with multiple postings. 

Question, Why and is this an actual review?


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## HobbesOnTour (28 Aug 2021)

raybo said:


> So I'm being attacked for writing a review of a new product that several people on this thread didn't know about and appreciation reading?


I don't see anyone attacking you personally, but I do see criticism of your review. On a public forum that is to be expected. Things get discussed.



raybo said:


> I'm also being attacked for not being "up front" that I got a review copy of the device in order to write the review? I wrote this: "(Disclosure: I was sent one for free after I requested one to review)" in the review. Should I have started the review with this? Put it in bold? I wasn't paid, I have no affiliation with the company.


In fairness, I think that the disclosure should have had as much highlighting as possible, if for no other reason that you wouldn't be feeling attacked.

Can I ask if you told the guys at PedalCell where and when you were posting your reviews? Is their posting here a happy coincidence?



raybo said:


> I am a bike tourist who has a website that contains no paid advertising and that makes me no money. In fact, it costs me hundreds of dollars (excuse the use of my national currency) a year. I want to promote bike touring and am trying to help people who want to travel by bicycle.


In all fairness, Ray, you haven't posted on this forum since 2013. How is anyone supposed to know what you do or what your intentions are?



raybo said:


> Do people who extol the virtues of their bicycles or other equipment need to disclose how much (and in which currency) they paid for something before writing about it?



With respect, I'd pay far more attention to a review done by someone who researched what was available, made their choice, with reasons, and paid for the product. Especially on a forum like this.
A magazine review? An "influencer" review? I'll take with a pinch of salt.



raybo said:


> I maintain an archive of bike touring information. I read about a dozen forums everyday, including this one. I rarely post in any of them. Is this a problem?


With respect, after an 8 year absence a first post that is a very positive review of a new product is likely to be deemed questionable.
Is it a problem? Only if you take issue with people questioning.

There's a principle at stake here.
This site is a community of people brought together by an interest in bikes. All kinds of bikes. Ideas are shared, advice offered, accepted and rejected.
To my mind it's not a place for commercial entities to be encroaching. 
Your review was followed up by posts from the company. Whether by accident or design there are questions to be asked. 

I "know" you from other fora and have an idea of what you're about. It's a pity that you feel attacked but for some folk on here you're a stranger who just walked into a bar to tell them of a great bridge for sale. Right behind you comes the guy who owns the bridge. 
Had I not been aware of you, I too would have been more robust in my responses.


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## raybo (28 Aug 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Your review was followed up by posts from the company. Whether by accident or design there are questions to be asked.



When people started asking for information I didn't have, I asked Adam at PedalCell to come over and provide more information. He did that. Once he stepped in, people asked more detailed questions directed at him. The thread moved away from the performance of the device into more contentious topics like pricing problems in the UK, arguments about hubs versus rim dynamos, and other, more personal, comments. I should mention that I didn't participate in those discussions because I had nothing to add.

Again, I'm trying to provide useful information. Asking someone who is more knowledgeable to help seemed reasonable to me. People suggesting that this is some kind of deep commercial conspiracy between me and the company to slyly slip free advertising into this forum is so far from what I have been trying to do since 2007, when I started biketouringtips.com.

I'm sorry that people have been offended and feel the need to school me on "appropriate" behavior on bike touring forums. I can assure you that I will be more careful in any future posts I make here.

Regarding disclosures: I specifically disclosed how I got the device for review. That I didn't call it out to your liking is more an editing and formatting issue than an ethical one. I am not trying to deceive anyone and I stand by all the photos, numbers, opinions, and limitations of the review itself.


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## HobbesOnTour (28 Aug 2021)

raybo said:


> I'm sorry that people have been offended and feel the need to school me on "appropriate" behavior on bike touring forums. I can assure you that I will be more careful in any future posts I make
> here.



I don't see anyone being offended, except perhaps about the pricing/duty situation. And that's not on you. 

And yourself.

I don't see anyone "schooling" you but I do see commentary about transparency. 

I wonder what Neil on CGOAB would make of PedalCell joining up to answer questions?
Or the folks on Bike Forums? 
Cycleblaze I don't frequent so cannot comment.

I think you're taking this far too personally, as is your right.



raybo said:


> Regarding disclosures: I specifically disclosed how I got the device for review. That I didn't call it out to your liking is more an editing and formatting issue than an ethical one. I am not trying to deceive anyone and I stand by all the photos, numbers, opinions, and limitations of the review itself.



In fairness, Ray, you asked the question. I answered it. 
I don't believe anyone has commented negatively on the content of the review, just the clarity, or otherwise, of how you came to be in possession of the unit.
On a forum such as this, a community, that is a perfectly valid position to hold in my view.

An important factor for me in assessing a product is value for money. A freebie does not allow for an objective judgement of that.

It's interesting too that out of all the reviews you posted (that I'm aware of) this thread is the most active with the most questions and answers. 

In an attempt to introduce some humour, a review of a bike product on a UK based site that hasn't been tested in the rain is deliciously ironic!


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## rogerzilla (28 Aug 2021)

I remember the B&M S12 bottle dynamo. 2-3x the power (12V 6W nominal, near 9W in practice) of any other dynamo, hub or bottle. It was efficient (60%, with a controlled output voltage*) but wasn't all that popular, probably because 12V lamps were rare and the whole setup was very pricey. A 3W hub dynamo can push 6W anyway if you show it enough load, and the world moved onto hub dynamos since bottles were horrible in so many respects (noise, slippage, difficulty of setup)

*these days, hub dynamos produce fairly wild voltages at high speeds and LED lights are designed to dump the excess power they can't use, but halogen lights mostly didn't: they got a lot brighter with the overvoltage (good), but their life was reduced drastically (bad, at £5 a pop - literally). Overvolting wasn't too bad with bottle dynamos because they saturated above a modest speed.


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## DiveswithMermaids3311 (10 Dec 2021)

Well I have not bought the Pedocell yet!~ but from what I have been reading, looking, the Pedocell sounds like one of the best ones yet, but the cost of $300.00 Plus tax, is making me choke. I live in Calif. and the fact that it is made in the USA, is a big plus. It seems that most is stuff made in China, Most of our tools, Ie, I go to Harbor Frieght, (all made in China) Go to Home Depot, toos all made in China, Go to Ace Hardwear, tools All made in China. And still looking I found a Head light that sounded like a really good light and also made in the USA, but---$400.00 Plus tax & shipping, holy make me crap my pants. $700.00 for the two. I paid only $2000.00 for the bike! That is hard to swallow. I have thought when I buy the Pedocell, I will at least try to hook it up to on of my old Dynomos lights that I used on my bikes in the 1980s. using the old fasion light bulb. Hopelly that would/will work. Maybe I can save my self $400.00.


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## raybo (10 Dec 2021)

DiveswithMermaids3311 said:


> I will at least try to hook it up to on of my old Dynomos lights that I used on my bikes in the 1980s. using the old fasion light bulb. Hopelly that would/will work. Maybe I can save my self $400.00.



I doubt this will work. Lights that work with older dynamos are designed to use the electricity generated directly by that dynamo.

The PedalCell plugs are USB ports. If your lights can accept a USB plug (the same kind of plug used with a cellphone), they will work with the PedalCell. If they can be attached to a battery, the PedalCell can charge the battery (assuming it, too, used USB) and the battery can charge the lights. Otherwise, you are out of luck.


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## lazytyke (23 Feb 2022)

I decided to splash the cash and buy a Pedalcell for an upcoming tour. I'm always more than a little dubious of the marketing hype, but I'm a sucker for new gadgets and the idea of not having to stress about charging the phone and Garmin etc ( I'm a worrier !) really appealed to me. The Pedalcell arrived from the States in just over a week, even though I didn't pay extra for expedited shipping, it also miraculously managed to avoid any import duty or VAT, which lessened the pain. If there were marks for presentation then it gets 10/10 for the way its' boxed. 

It's only had one test run, but based on that I'm very impressed. I didn't notice any noise at all once on the road, I've got the little velogical dynamo as well and that has a pretty annoying whine, but the Pedalcell wasn't really audible over the tyre/road noise. On a quiet country lane it might possibly be, but doubt it would be intrusive. As for charging, my run was an urban start stop affair with average speed just under 11mph. It charged my iPhone at around 1% a min over a 40 min period, I was pretty impressed with that given the type of riding. I'm not sure about drag, it's very subjective. The more you think about it the more you think you can feel ! but given the charging rate, I doubt I'd be using it for more that 2-3 hours a day max so probably easy enough to just use on the flat/downhill sections of the ride. Early days with it, but first impressions are favourable.


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## Blue Hills (23 Feb 2022)

lazytyke said:


> I decided to splash the cash and buy a Pedalcell for an upcoming tour. I'm always more than a little dubious of the marketing hype, but I'm a sucker for new gadgets and the idea of not having to stress about charging the phone and Garmin etc ( I'm a worrier !) really appealed to me. The Pedalcell arrived from the States in just over a week, even though I didn't pay extra for expedited shipping, it also miraculously managed to avoid any import duty or VAT, which lessened the pain. If there were marks for presentation then it gets 10/10 for the way its' boxed.
> 
> It's only had one test run, but based on that I'm very impressed. I didn't notice any noise at all once on the road, I've got the little velogical dynamo as well and that has a pretty annoying whine, but the Pedalcell wasn't really audible over the tyre/road noise. On a quiet country lane it might possibly be, but doubt it would be intrusive. As for charging, my run was an urban start stop affair with average speed just under 11mph. It charged my iPhone at around 1% a min over a 40 min period, I was pretty impressed with that given the type of riding. I'm not sure about drag, it's very subjective. The more you think about it the more you think you can feel ! but given the charging rate, I doubt I'd be using it for more that 2-3 hours a day max so probably easy enough to just use on the flat/downhill sections of the ride. Early days with it, but first impressions are favourable.


thanks for that.

Came across this vid recently which while being a "review" of charging options is also of course a plug for the product - can't really blame them.

I found the discussion interesting/informative and they do seem to have thought things through.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZvkSPwUHmI



Appears to need new rubber washers quite frequently - not sure what that is about.

Apologies if missed something upthread, but can I ask why you went for this rather than a hub Dynamo?


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## lazytyke (23 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Apologies if missed something upthread, but can I ask why you went for this rather than a hub Dynamo?



I liked the idea of the dynamo being independent of the wheel. Any issues with the wheel are easier to solve, plus I can easily swap between bikes. I guess the other point is that this is specifically designed around USB charging, so in theory more efficient, although whether that makes a huge amount of difference I don't know. I can't claim to be an expert. Portability between bikes was the main reason, plus liking new gadgets


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## Blue Hills (23 Feb 2022)

lazytyke said:


> I liked the idea of the dynamo being independent of the wheel. Any issues with the wheel are easier to solve, plus I can easily swap between bikes. I guess the other point is that this is specifically designed around USB charging, so in theory more efficient, although whether that makes a huge amount of difference I don't know. I can't claim to be an expert. Portability between bikes was the main reason, plus liking new gadgets


ta for reply - I may ask to pop round for a look 

(my current setup is a cheapo decathlon hub wheel dynamo and an ewerk - which does work)

re shipping from the states and concerns about duties etc I gather from that vid that they now have a UK supplier - i did check that UK supplier's web page and they seemed to list it.


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## lazytyke (23 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> ta for reply - I may ask to pop round for a look
> 
> (my current setup is a cheapo decathlon hub wheel dynamo and an ewerk - which does work)
> 
> re shipping from the states and concerns about duties etc I gather from that vid that they now have a UK supplier - i did check that UK supplier's web page and they seemed to list it.



I think the UK supplier price was pretty much the same as the price from states with shipping VAT/Import Duty. Obviously I got lucky, it's not the first time though ! If you want to have a look sure we can arrange, just PM me if your inquisitiveness gets the better of you. I was a bit worried if it would work on my bike with the racks etc, so I would have been happier, trying first, as it was all turned out fine.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Feb 2022)

lazytyke said:


> I think the UK supplier price was pretty much the same as the price from states with shipping VAT/Import Duty. Obviously I got lucky, it's not the first time though ! If you want to have a look sure we can arrange, just PM me if your inquisitiveness gets the better of you. I was a bit worried if it would work on my bike with the racks etc, so I would have been happier, trying first, as it was all turned out fine.



I think customs and excise are a bit overloaded , so smaller items will likely as much get through.


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## rogerzilla (29 Jul 2022)

View: https://youtu.be/o7xfGuRaq94


Here's a stripdown of a dead one. Spoiler: he's not impressed.


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## Tenkaykev (29 Jul 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> View: https://youtu.be/o7xfGuRaq94
> 
> 
> Here's a stripdown of a dead one. Spoiler: he's not impressed.




I subscribe to the channel and had already seen the video. Some of the BTL comments are informative. Seems like a case of "spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar ", though the company might not have been aware of the quality issues until the units started failing.
Mrs Tenkaykev has a Shimano hub dynamo on her touring bike, It's quite a chunk, I have a SP Dynamo wheel on my Brommie and it's tiny by comparison. I'm pleased with the convenience of a hub dynamo, it's "just there" and you eventually forget about it and get used to always having lights.


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## andrew_s (29 Jul 2022)

Tenkaykev said:


> I'm pleased with the convenience of a hub dynamo, it's "just there" and you eventually forget about it and get used to always having lights.


Match that with sensomatic lights, and after a bit you'll get into the habit of just getting on your bike and riding off, without regard to the time of day or night.


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