# How to give up booze..... a serious question



## Dave7 (18 Sep 2020)

I am thinking of giving up the booze, maybe completely......we will see.
It has crept up on me and I need to curb it.
Now.......the medical advice seems to be DO NOT go cold turkey, it could be dangerous and even cause death
BUT
If say I went to AA** ( not the car people) I can't imagine them saying cut it gradually
**I have no intention of going.
BTW......just to clarify. 
I do not get drunk
I am (virtually) never hung over.
I don't do sessions.
Its just become a habit to have a glass in my hand.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2020)

I normally stop from Jan1st until March 20th each year, I just stop completely.


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## vickster (18 Sep 2020)

You should only not go cold turkey if you’re an alcoholic.
Just cut back? How many units a day/week do you have? Not sure what a ‘session’ is??
If concerned, discuss with Dr. Maybe this is contributing to your unwellness


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## ianrauk (18 Sep 2020)

A few years ago I gave up drinking on a 'school night'. I was in a job that literally encouraged drinking as part of the business culture. .Every lunchtime and evening, everyday. I decided to give it up and only have a drink on a Friday and Saturday. That was 15 years back. I've stuck to it ever since. Of course I have a drink on the odd night out, get together, holidays, etc on a week night. But I've kept it up and is now at a point where having a drink is a treat rather than just having one for the sake of it.

If you're not an alcoholic, and it is a terrible disease that kills, then you shouldn't have too much trouble cutting back. Just takes a whole lot of will power.


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## DCLane (18 Sep 2020)

I stopped almost 10 years ago overnight, but that was a personal decision due to urgent medical need. 

It's keeping to the decision that is the difficult part. It takes willpower more than anything; I've not missed it, although might have a drink once or twice a year.


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## steve292 (18 Sep 2020)

I went from having maybe 6-7pints a night, with a lot more on the weekend to none in the space of a few months many years ago. Just stop drinking and find something else to do.
I still enjoy a night on the beer occasionally, and if I go on a rugby weekend or a stag do will drink with the best of them, but I stop as soon as it's over.


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## All uphill (18 Sep 2020)

I think the best way of giving up depends on what role alcohol plays in your life. For me it was a treat after work, or something to occupy my hands and mouth in front of the TV.

What worked for me was having no alcohol in the house. Then I had to find some alternative treats to take the place of the glass of red, and do something other than watching tv.

I was surprised how easy it was for me, and that cold turkey was what worked.

Good luck, the benefits are worth it!


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## AndyRM (18 Sep 2020)

If you can get past the religious element of AA (and despite what they claim, it's there), I've found it really helpful; I go to an online group every week.

You won't be told what to do, or judged.


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## Cycleops (18 Sep 2020)

I imagine this has become a problem for a lot of people dusting the lockdown due to depression. I was drinking too much beer and have stopped but still drink some wine which I will try to cut out or down.


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## Sterlo (18 Sep 2020)

As others have said, it depends on how much you drink. I gave up 10+ years ago, never a big drinker but it just didn't agree with me, not hung over the next day but feeling bloated, often nauseous and generally lethargic. I can honestly say I haven't missed it one bit. If you're drinking regularly, probably better to cut down rather than go cold turkey but whatever works for you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## johnblack (18 Sep 2020)

I cut right back when I'm in training for a big event, itt's more of a weight loss thing. I went totally overboard between July and August, so have completely cut back now, won't give up but will ration. I did give up completely a few years ago for 13 months but I decided that as I enjoy a drink why should I deny myself, since then I have been in control and am able to throttle right back when required. That's the issue, knowing when it's time to say no and being able to do so.


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## numbnuts (18 Sep 2020)

When I lived in Aussie I use to drink a lot as it was hot, but everything is all right in moderation, but I could see things were getting out of control so in 1980 I stopped drinking completely and have not drunk since.


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## MartinQ (18 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I am thinking of giving up the booze, maybe completely......we will see.
> It has crept up on me and I need to curb it.
> Now.......the medical advice seems to be DO NOT go cold turkey, it could be dangerous and even cause death
> BUT
> ...



How much do you drink? I can't imagine there would be any significant medical risk if you just stopped, the way you're describing it - maybe have a word with your gp. Just about anything could cause death, don't over think it?

I stopped completely after the PEs ~8 years ago simply because I'm already too tired.


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## steveindenmark (18 Sep 2020)

I did it 30+ years ago. I was on a bottle of vodka plus beer a day and then went onto injecting vodka.
My alcohol intake now is maybe 2 glasses of wine with a meal at Christmas and a couple of beers at a BBQ. I rarely drink and dont miss it. I regret even now, the money I spent on it.
My two pieces of advice is change your mindset. "I think I will try and stop drinking". Its not good enough. You are setting yourself up to fail. Get professional advice. I dont mean sign up for AA meetings but get their literature. They deal with this day in, day out and know lots of tricks to help. Expect to put on lots of weight. I turned to fizzy drinks to replace alcohol. Getting the weight off was an extra challenge.


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## Dave7 (18 Sep 2020)

MartinQ said:


> How much do you drink? I can't imagine there would be any significant medical risk if you just stopped, the way you're describing it - maybe have a word with your gp. Just about anything could cause death, don't over think it?
> 
> I stopped completely after the PEs ~8 years ago simply because I'm already too tired.


Spoke to the gp as I have other problems such as severe fatigue, no appetite**, cold but sweating profusely.
I have had 3 blood test and a thorough scan.. . None of which has shown anything.
Having more blood tests next week.
**MrsD has the same symptoms which started for us both after the flu end Dec-early March.
We are convinced we had Covid 19. If you look on Covid Long Haul we have 90%+ of what everyone has.


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## Dave7 (18 Sep 2020)

BTW @steveindenmark did you go cold turkey or what ?


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## MartinQ (18 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Spoke to the gp as I have other problems such as severe fatigue, no appetite**, cold but sweating profusely.
> I have had 3 blood test and a thorough scan.. . None of which has shown anything.
> Having more blood tests next week.
> **MrsD has the same symptoms which started for us both after the flu end Dec-early March.
> We are convinced we had Covid 19. If you look on Covid Long Haul we have 90%+ of what everyone has.


Sure, I meant about stopping drinking. I'd second guess they'd say go for it if you want to, cold turkey or not. But you'd be better discussing with them if you think there is a medical risk with stopping. Personally, I can't see it.


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## Joffey (18 Sep 2020)

It's Stoptober soon - just give up then. Set yourself the target of the month and see how you feel at the end.

Doing it in October stops you getting the funny comments from people and loads of other people are doing it. 

A month off might be just what you need to break the habit - it usually does the trick for me. If you aren't missing the booze then do another month.

Good luck!


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## roadrash (18 Sep 2020)

I was never a big drinker, but what little i did drink was stopped completely overnight when i was prescribed the fentanyl patches for nerve pain(back related) it didnt bother me one bit, i have though, had the occasional bottle of beer lately, which i have enjoyed.


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## Dave7 (18 Sep 2020)

MartinQ said:


> Sure, I meant about stopping drinking. I'd second guess they'd say go for it if you want to, cold turkey or not. But you'd be better discussing with them if you think there is a medical risk with stopping. Personally, I can't see it.


No.....she said don't go cold turkey.
Half it for a while, then half it again etc.


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## tom73 (18 Sep 2020)

@Dave7 if you are at the stage of "i don't want this to get out of control" then cutting down and then down again is a good way to go. 
You can then get use to things and get in the mind set to do it.
Do you feel you can't get though the day without any ?
Is drink the 1st thing you think about the you wake up?
If so then that's a problem and you need a bit of help. 
Cold turkey is not a great idea and can kill. Unlike a drug which the need is mostly mental, drink is both a mental need and a physical one. 
Once drinking reachers a high enough daily level day after day the body need's it and without it uncontrollable seizures happen and basically fry the brain. 
Hence the need for medically controlled de-tox. Mrs 73 use to run a nurse led one and has seen what happens and it's not pretty. 
Not saying your at that level just thought I'd explain why for some you can't just stop. 
If your GP say's to cut it down steady then go with that she but think your ok to do it like that. 
Good luck with it giving anything up is never easy.


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## ColinJ (18 Sep 2020)

@Dave7 - I was drinking too much, too often, and told myself that I would give it up if my health started to suffer. Then I _DID _get very ill so the booze had to go. I haven't touched a drop since (8 years and counting)...

The thing is - it would have made much more sense to give up _BEFORE _getting ill, and thereby avoid the suffering and long-term damage that the illness caused.

If you are drinking so much that going cold turkey would be harmful, then cut down more gradually, and get help if you need it. Otherwise just make the decision and pack it in there and then. After a few weeks you probably won't miss it (much!).


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## MartinQ (18 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> No.....she said don't go cold turkey.
> Half it for a while, then half it again etc.



Ok, I think you've answered your original question? Good luck seeing it through.


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## steveindenmark (19 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> BTW @steveindenmark did you go cold turkey or what ?


The day I decided to stop I was on my way to a 4 month detachment in the Kenyan bush. There was no alcohol. But I was ok. Having it in my head that I wanted to stop made all the difference. Dont be worried about asking AA for help. They deal with everything from minor drink problems to extreme alcohol problems.


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## Beebo (19 Sep 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> then went onto injecting vodka.


is that even a thing?
Ive seen people do funny things with booze but never inject it!


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## AndyRM (19 Sep 2020)

Beebo said:


> is that even a thing?
> Ive seen people do funny things with booze but never inject it!



Yep. Very, very risky though.


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## byegad (19 Sep 2020)

Back in the 1970s, I am old, I got into home brewing and wine making. I used to make a very palatable IPA, a great Tea wine and lots of others.

By 1980 I was drinking too much, too often. It was easy to open a bottle of wine, or pour a pint out of my pressurised cask, and another, and another. It was a gradual thing and by the time I realised how much I was drinking it was a serious drink issue.

I sold/gave away all my gear and only drank on a night out. All these years later I still drink, but, until lockdown didn't keep drink in the house, only buying a modest amount once a week and drinking what I bought in the next few days. With lockdown and Lady Byegad's illness late last year we have been getting our groceries delivered and as deliveries became harder to get, we have bought in larger amounts, less frequently, including wines and beer. And I still drink once a week, and surprisingly I find I drink less than I did prior to lockdown.


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## NorthernSky (21 Sep 2020)

i started to cut down how often i was drinking about 10 years ago
unfortunately i couldn't cut down how much i drank on the few occasions i did (would binge drink)
so was maybe having 4 mad sessions a year then drinking a few on the weekends at home
i was in an ok position to go cold turkey and that's what i did. several months in now and going well.
could you cut down for a month at most then cut down again then off completely?
no point in prolonging it too much if possible


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## jowwy (21 Sep 2020)

I stopped after a staff bbq 12yrs ago and have never drunk since..........and have never had any cravings for alcohol at all


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## Phaeton (21 Sep 2020)

Drink doesn't bother me, I can take it or leave it, very occasionally have a social beer, or maybe one if we go out for a pub (or rather did go out not been for months) my demon is whiskey, if it's in the house I do tend to drink it until it's gone, which as I never buy it works fine. But just having had my 60th I have 7 bottles in the house, or rather had, I went through 3 in 2 weeks. But I do have a rule that says no drinking before 9pm, which seems to work for me, haven't had any for 5 nights now as even I noticed it was every night for a while.


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## Blue Hills (21 Sep 2020)

NorthernSky said:


> i started to cut down how often i was drinking about 10 years ago
> unfortunately i couldn't cut down how much i drank on the few occasions i did (would binge drink)
> so was maybe having 4 mad sessions a year then drinking a few on the weekends at home


That surely isn't going to do you much harm?
Unless these "4 mad sessions" are off my radar/more extreme than I can imagine.


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## Blue Hills (21 Sep 2020)

jowwy said:


> I stopped after a staff bbq 12yrs ago and have never drunk since..........and have never had any cravings for alcohol at all


Do tell us about that staff bbq.
Still talked about?


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## vickster (21 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Do tell us about that staff bbq.
> Still talked about?


Threw up down the female MD‘s decolletage?


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## Blue Hills (21 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> Threw up down the female MD‘s decolletage?


have no idea at all of course.
But I couldn't help but think of the dreaded Christmas office party scenario/postmortem.
I once went to an introductory day/getting to know folk pre my scheduled new year arrival at an esteemed upmarket London PR agency, and innocently making conversation, asked about the christmas party (which I may have been vaguely scheduled to attend) and being answered with a collective shudder. I never learned what had happened.


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## Dave7 (21 Sep 2020)

NorthernSky said:


> i started to cut down how often i was drinking about 10 years ago
> unfortunately i couldn't cut down how much i drank on the few occasions i did (would binge drink)
> so was maybe having 4 mad sessions a year then drinking a few on the weekends at home
> i was in an ok position to go cold turkey and that's what i did. several months in now and going well.
> ...


That is what I have decided.
50% less each month.
I don't want to go tee total......just control it better


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## vickster (21 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> That is what I have decided.
> 50% less each month.
> I don't want to go tee total......just control it better


Go for 50% less every time you drink...that’ll be easier to monitor. 
stick to singles not doubles, a small glass of wine rather than a bottle, a half rather than a pint


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## NorthernSky (21 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> That surely isn't going to do you much harm?
> Unless these "4 mad sessions" are off my radar/more extreme than I can imagine.


haha, well the last one i had my head down the toilet at the end of the night 
it was more the hangovers with me, i got the worst hangovers on the planet. 
the GF had the same opinion though that i wasn't a big drinker and not doing a lot of harm
at least the alcohol free market has really opened up (great variety now), i can still enjoy the taste if i want without the brutal hangovers


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## Dave7 (21 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> Go for 50% less every time you drink...that’ll be easier to monitor.
> stick to singles not doubles, a small glass of
> wine rather than a bottle, a half rather than a pint


Thats generally what I have done.


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## jowwy (21 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Do tell us about that staff bbq.
> Still talked about?


Just got mullered on Stella and we Never started the bbq..........it was a Friday, got back to the office Monday and there were beer bottle everywhere, food was still in the fridges etc etc......


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## jowwy (21 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> Threw up down the female MD‘s decolletage?


Nope......just got mullered on Stella, didn’t even fire up the bbq and our MD was male


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## vickster (21 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Thats generally what I have done.


Just need to remove the 'generally' now


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## The Jogger (25 Sep 2020)

I went to AA 31 years ago, I'm still going and I went from drinking a bottle a day every day to nothing. I'm not religious in the slightest I'm happy to say nor is AA although it does use the god word, you do your own thing with that.


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## Blue Hills (26 Sep 2020)

The Jogger said:


> I went to AA 31 years ago, I'm still going and I went from drinking a bottle a day every day to nothing.


A bottle of spirits?


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## AndyRM (26 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> A bottle of spirits?



Does it matter?


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## Blue Hills (26 Sep 2020)

AndyRM said:


> Does it matter?


Well yes obviously.
Big difference between bottle of water/party fizz/weak wine (lots of it around) , beer (all sorts of strengths in different sized bottles , sherry, spirits, very high alcohol stuff (plus 90 per cent?) Which at least until recently you could buy cheaply in Italy for your home concoctions.
If you aren't aware of the variety of bottle temptations, I fear for you.
Drink aware/wise.
Enjoy but be careful out there.


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## AndyRM (26 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Well yes obviously.
> Big difference between bottle of water/party fizz/weak wine (lots of it around) , beer (all sorts of strengths in different sized bottles , sherry, spirits, very high alcohol stuff (plus 90 per cent?) Which at least until recently you could buy cheaply in Italy for your home concoctions.
> If you aren't aware of the variety of bottle temptations, I fear for you.
> Drink aware/wise.
> Enjoy but be careful out there.



My point, poorly made admittedly, is that a bottle of beer can be just as damaging as a bottle of spirits.


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## Blue Hills (26 Sep 2020)

AndyRM said:


> My point, poorly made admittedly, is that a bottle of beer can be just as damaging as a bottle of spirits.


I wouldn't say someone drinking a bottle of beer a day had an alcohol problem.


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## AndyRM (26 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I wouldn't say someone drinking a bottle of beer a day had an alcohol problem.



It's all relative, of course.


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## The Jogger (28 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> A bottle of spirits?


Yes, vodka or the equivalent in units.


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## Blue Hills (29 Sep 2020)

The Jogger said:


> Yes, vodka or the equivalent in units.


ah yes, time for serious action for sure when you get to that stage.


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## Electric_Andy (29 Sep 2020)

What I did:

Found a soft drink that I liked (sugar free) and drink that instead.
Get over the myth that having a few drinks tonight is going to vastly improve my enjoyment of the evening.
Don't buy alcohol in the weekly shop (i.e. don't keep it in the house).
I wouldn't think cutting down is any good. It still gives you the idea that you need (half as much) alcohol, when in fact you don't need any.

Best of luck


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## Sniper68 (30 Sep 2020)

I quit Xmas day......after waking up in a cell.I went out for a pint with the dog xmas eve and the rest is history.First time in 19 years I’ve been out Xmas Eve and probably the last.The “off” switch I thought I’d developed as I’ve gotten older didn’t work.
We were generally drinking a three bottles of wine a night 4-5 times a week but last year I was “calling for a pint” with the dog which was actually 4or5 then going home and starting on the wine.
The bender at Xmas was the straw that broke the camels back.I ended up living with friends through January as my wife and kids didn’t want me in the house.
I quit Xmas day.
I am home now and drink Alcohol free beer a couple of nights a week.I usually only have 3 or 4 bottles.
I’m not saying I’ll never drink again but I need to be 120% sure I can just have a couple then switch off before I do.
Another bonus is getting up for Sunday CC rides hangover free!


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## Pale Rider (30 Sep 2020)

Having gone cold turkey about 10 years ago, my advice is be prepared to feel worse before you feel better.

I reckon that may also apply to cutting back significantly because my non-qualified view is the body becomes dependent on whatever quantity it is shipping.

Currently, I have literally a single bottle of beer or a double scotch about once or twice a month.

I've been helped by the availability of a wider range of soft drinks.

For example, I rather like some of the energy drinks such as Monster.

Not for any energy reasons, but because I find the flavours interesting.

Stupid thing is at about £1.30 a tin, they cost more than some beer.


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## Eziemnaik (3 Oct 2020)

The most effective method would be becoming a Muslim and moving to a dry country such as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
With very high risk/reward ratio I can guarantee most people would rather quickly stop drinking.
(Not that it does perfectly, hence casualties of perfume poisoning in SA (trying to get drunk on no5 or victims of illicit distilleries in Pakistan or Iran - methanol poisoning seems to be quite common there) - this method was employed by Lawrence Osbourne in his fantastic travelogue "The wet and the dry" which I recommend to everyone interested in the subjet.

To all who may not know it - cutting alcohol completely out of your diet will decrease your life expectancy


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## iancity (4 Oct 2020)

Learned a lot from the Allen Carr approach, busts the myths around alcohol really well - there are no positives to alcohol and he 'proves' it. Read his, and a few other books, and went cold turkey, as the message is, simply, there is no good to it. That was probably this time last year - managed to stop really easily, didnt miss it in the slightest, wallet and health thanked me profusely. Unfortunately a change of circumstances in June led me to start again, and have drank pretty much every other day until last week, where re-reading the books has given me a new motivation and not touched anything since ...
He is quite scathing about the AA (although he admits it has helped a lot of people), where its always a 'struggle' and you are always an alcoholic, taking each day at a time, and you must resit the temptation of a drink...he tends to focus on why drink it, never does any one any good, and once you understand this you do not miss it, therefore no day is a 'struggle', in fact every day is freedom and one to be enjoyed.


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## itboffin (6 Oct 2020)

I’ve been drinking 8+ pints a day for the last 3 years sometimes much more sometimes loads more I could say this is down to my failed family life but to be honest I don’t think that’s the only reason I think I have an addictive personality when I was younger it was drugs it’s also been exercise too

I sometimes have a hangover and feel sick but more often than not nothing and I don’t know if that’s good or bad, what I do know is I have very high tolerance for everything food drink spice pain and suffering included.


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## straas (7 Oct 2020)

Every day? That's a fair bit!


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## itboffin (8 Oct 2020)

straas said:


> Every day? That's a fair bit!



yep that's a normal day i've drunk seriously more on bad days


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## keithmac (8 Oct 2020)

I did 3 months off at start of year, slipped back into the habbit again though. Knocked it on the head again and haven't had a drink for over a month now.

Both times "cold turkey", if you've decided in yourself to do it then it's relatively easy.

For me drinking was habbit and stress relief, nothing good came of it so I decided not to carry on doing it!.

Each to their own, some can have just a pint, I liked a good drink so best off with none.

Don't miss hangovers one bit. 

Refusing a drink will always be hard work though.


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## straas (8 Oct 2020)

itboffin said:


> yep that's a normal day i've drunk seriously more on bad days



Have you tried to do something about it? That's not a sustainable habit at all.


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## cyberknight (1 Dec 2020)

decided to pack it in er again !
never a big drinker but read that it can aggravate arthritis so thats it , got to bin the booze


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## ColinJ (1 Dec 2020)

cyberknight said:


> decided to pack it in er again !
> never a big drinker but read that it can aggravate arthritis so thats it , got to bin the booze


Good idea!

I would say that I miss it maybe 2 or 3 times a year, but given that I was drinking too heavily 5, 6 or even 7 times a week, that is a pretty good trade-off...


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## cyberknight (1 Dec 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Good idea!
> 
> I would say that I miss it maybe 2 or 3 times a year, but given that I was drinking too heavily 5, 6 or even 7 times a week, that is a pretty good trade-off...


Yes I have been drinking regularly due to stress so it's an incentive to get back to my usual self


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Dec 2020)

Close the pubs


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## SkipdiverJohn (2 Dec 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I do not get drunk
> I am (virtually) never hung over.
> I don't do sessions.
> Its just become a habit to have a glass in my hand.



So what's the problem? Why do you even think stopping drinking is a good idea?
Unless you are drinking so much you are putting on a load of weight or making yourself feel rough, why on earth would you want to stop doing it?.

Try substituting the word "cycling" for "booze" and you'll see how illogical it is..
I do not cycle to excess.
I hardly ever feel rough after cycling.
I don't spend many hours at a time cycling
It's just become a habit to ride a bike.


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## Blue Hills (2 Dec 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Close the pubs


for good?
The vast majority of excessive drinking seems to me to go on at home.


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## icowden (2 Dec 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I am thinking of giving up the booze, maybe completely......we will see.



As others have said, it's only dangerous to go cold turkey if your alcohol consumption is at a level where you depend upon it. 
The difficulty / ease of doing so is going to be related to your bodies relationship with alcohol and dopamine.
Essentially when you have alcohol your body rewards you with some dopamine which makes you feel good.

If you drink constantly, then when you don't have that dopamine you feel terrible so then you *need* a drink to feel normal and bring up your dopamine level.
That's how most alcoholism is formed.

Some people form this alcohol relationship more strongly than others. I drink occasionally but have no connection with it making me feel good, and I don't really like it when I start to get squiffy. I therefore very rarely drink much, and usually only drink things that I think taste nice. For other people though it can be the polar opposite. One thing you can do to support yourself if you start feeling like it's difficult to stop, or you need a drink, is to find a better way of giving yourself a dopamine boost such as hard exercise such as a run or a long / hard cycle ride.

If you are really concerned and finding it difficult it might be worth finding a local AA group, if only just to listen or to have other people to talk to who might be in the same area. A family member has these issues and AA was hugely beneficial in helping him climb out of the position he was in.


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## icowden (2 Dec 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> for good?
> The vast majority of excessive drinking seems to me to go on at home.



I agree. The dangerous level of alcholism is usually when the drinker is hiding their drinking, not doing it publicly.


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## Sniper68 (2 Dec 2020)

icowden said:


> I agree. The dangerous level of alcholism is usually when the drinker is hiding their drinking, not doing it publicly.


Or when just "calling for a pint" actually means banging 4 or 5 down in a very short space of time(ie an hour or so) or by telling themselves and others they had "a glass of wine" last night when it was actually 2 bottles!
I'm now 11 months into AF and feeling all the better for it.I no longer see a Councilor(it was a voluntary step) but she helped massively.I spent my first birthday in 36 years sober and not in a pub.
Could I now go out and just have 1 or 2?I really think I could.TBH I don't think I'm missing it at all.


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