# La Vuelta 2017 **SPOILERS**



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

The next GT starts in less than a month on August 19th.
Some are crocked, some knackered from the Giro or Tour, some getting a bit past their sell-by date.
Froome will be odds on if he does it - he will...
Landa, Pinot and Quintana have done the Giro and the TdF.
Valverde is borked
Bertie is a busted flush
Nibali could be Froome's main threat
Porte will struggle to be mended and fit
Dumoulin, Gesink, Kruisjwick could play a part
Aru, Barguil, Bardet?

*5* stages flat and *1* level with end in high
*8* stages of average mountain
*5* mountain stages
*1 team* time trial stage
*1* individual time trial stage
*Testing Features*

*13.8* km Team Time Trial
*42* km individual time trial
*50* mountain passes
*2* days rest
Could be fun unless Sky drain the life out of it.


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## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

I've just read on CN that neither Dumoulin or Gesink will be there, but Barguil may be if he doesn't argue with with the Sunweb management.


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## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Zakarin, Ilnur.

Looks like Froome has organised his season to be in enough form to do the Tour and the Vuelta. I think he might be too young to win it yet


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

Will Astana give Nibbles better support than they did Aru? 

Maybe some over the hill neverbeen or done nothing for whole career/does nothing for rest of career previously mediocre rider will put in an 'amazing' performance and surprise us all!


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## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Will Astana give Nibbles better support than they did Aru?
> 
> Maybe some over the hill neverbeen or done nothing for whole career/does nothing for rest of career previously mediocre rider will put in an 'amazing' performance and surprise us all!


My money's on Haimar Zubeldia!


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## brommers (22 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Will Astana give Nibbles better support than they did Aru?


It would be odd if they do, because he rides for Bahrain Merida these days


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## Beebo (22 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> It would be odd if they do, because he rides for Bahrain Merida these days


Pedant.


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

I did forget that.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> *5* stages flat and *1* level with end in high
> *8* stages of average mountain
> *5* mountain stages
> *1 team* time trial stage
> ...



A more interesting selection of stage profiles, possibly 1 average mountain stage too many and the ITT is too long - I'm never happy me.


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

We plan on being near the (mountain top) finish of stage 8, we're setting off next Thursday


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

I don't think Froome was saving himself in the Tour - Sky were effective at controlling the race but he just wasn't at his best, as he hasn't been all season. Still good enough to win, obviously - largely thanks to his main rivals all being rubbish at time trials and/or going down mountains - but I doubt he has another grand tour in him this season. Sky ought to be backing Rosa or Poels. Or even Landa, who looks like he still has _three_ more GTs in him this season. 

I'm with @Crackle - my money is on Zakarin. Nibali and Kruijswijk are obvious contenders. And Jungels. Lopez could be worth watching too.

Leo Konig is an unknown quantity - he'll be fresh, at least.



rich p said:


> Barguil may be if he doesn't argue with with the Sunweb management



Surely they'll be backing Kelderman? Assuming he's over his injuries from the Giro crash.


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> My money's on Haimar Zubeldia!



Yeah, I suppose LL Sanchez isn't quite old enough yet.


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

Juan Antonio Fletcher might as well have a go, I can't understand half what he says on the telly anyway.


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## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I don't think Froome was saving himself in the Tour - Sky were effective at controlling the race but he just wasn't at his best, as he hasn't been all season. Still good enough to win, obviously - largely thanks to his main rivals all being rubbish at time trials and/or going down mountains - but I doubt he has another grand tour in him this season. Sky ought to be backing Rosa or Poels. Or even Landa, who looks like he still has _three_ more GTs in him this season.
> 
> I'm with @Crackle - my money is on Zakarin. Nibali and Kruijswijk are obvious contenders. And Jungels. Lopez could be worth watching too.
> 
> ...



I'd forgotten Konig entirely - Is he racing yet?
I can't see Kelderman ever winning a GT though I have been known to be wrong!


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## Adam4868 (23 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/889031585626030080


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## rich p (23 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> View: https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/889031585626030080



I'd forgotten that Uran could do the double too!
Orica would be wise to rest Simon and let Adam do it. I think!


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## themosquitoking (23 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I'd forgotten that Uran could do the double too!
> Orica would be wise to rest Simon and let Adam do it. I think!


Doubling up on the Tour and Vuelta doesn't seem to have caused many problems over the last three or four years, it's the Giro Tour double that seems to be the killer.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

Just had a look at the route. Stage 20 ends on the Angliru. Ouch.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> the ITT is too long



And too flat...


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## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I don't think Froome was saving himself in the Tour - Sky were effective at controlling the race but he just wasn't at his best, as he hasn't been all season. Still good enough to win, obviously - largely thanks to his main rivals all being rubbish at time trials and/or going down mountains - but I doubt he has another grand tour in him this season. Sky ought to be backing Rosa or Poels. Or even Landa, who looks like he still has _three_ more GTs in him this season.
> 
> I'm with @Crackle - my money is on Zakarin. Nibali and Kruijswijk are obvious contenders. And Jungels. Lopez could be worth watching too.
> 
> ...



With him going to Movistar I'd be surprised to see Sky giving Landa the chance, though he probably deserves it after his support of Froome at the Tour.

I'd like to see the Yates boys have a serious challenge, but maybe it is to earlier for them.


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## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Think Poels is the dark horse winner for me. Difficult if not impossible to know his form, but a definite contender IMO.


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## Starchivore (23 Jul 2017)

I vow to follow La vuelta this time, being very very guilty of only ever really watching Le tour. I'd like to see some more of Spain, having never been there despite speaking a decent amount of Spanish. I'll be reliant on watching ITV4's highlights on catch-up though.


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## Buddfox (23 Jul 2017)

Starchivore said:


> I vow to follow La vuelta this time, being very very guilty of only ever really watching Le tour. I'd like to see some more of Spain, having never been there despite speaking a decent amount of Spanish. I'll be reliant on watching ITV4's highlights on catch-up though.



Don't get your hopes up. Some of the scenery will be great, but often the Vuelta is beset with long stages mostly run on dual carriageways with very little by way of background. It's just the way the landscape is in the interior of some parts of Spain. It suffers in this regard vs both France and Italy. For my money this is made up by the numerous ridiculously steep tracks / paths which are often used as mountaintop finishes. A casual 20% gradient seems to come far more often than I would expect.


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## SWSteve (24 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I'm with @Crackle - my money is on Zakarin.



But he'll have to go downhill at some point, and that isn't a strength, nor is his time trialling - those 40km could be his undoing


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## Crackle (24 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> But he'll have to go downhill at some point, and that isn't a strength, nor is his time trialling - those 40km could be his undoing


Very true about the time trialling. So many contenders rule themselves out due to the fact they can't tt.


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## smutchin (24 Jul 2017)

I thought Zakarin was a decent time triallist, but a quick check over his record suggests he's good at time trials in the same way that Uran is. He is current Russian TT champion though, for what that's worth (standard of competition for that title doesn't seem so high).

I presume the comment about his descending was meant to be facetious.


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## brommers (24 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I thought Zakarin was a decent time triallist, but a quick check over his record suggests he's good at time trials in the same way that Uran is. He is current Russian TT champion though, for what that's worth (standard of competition for that title doesn't seem so high)


He generally is a good TTer - the times he's finished lower down the order is when he has come off his bike.


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## mjr (24 Jul 2017)

Actually, I think the route looks fairly tasty with not too much in the empty bits this year, but I've yet to look at the detail:


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## SWSteve (25 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I thought Zakarin was a decent time triallist, but a quick check over his record suggests he's good at time trials in the same way that Uran is. He is current Russian TT champion though, for what that's worth (standard of competition for that title doesn't seem so high).
> 
> I presume the comment about his descending was meant to be facetious.



Comment on his TT skills were because he binned it (possibly twice) the last time I saw him do one, and everyone else seemed to remain upright


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> And too flat...
> 
> View attachment 363709


There have been recent changes to the Vuelta route, including making the ITT shorter. So they obviously read on here that I thought it was too long


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## SWSteve (26 Jul 2017)

How has Torres Del Rio gained altitude?


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## themosquitoking (26 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> How has Torres Del Rio gained altitude?


It's Spain, these are only details.


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## brommers (27 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> How has Torres Del Rio gained altitude?


Probably taken in a different part of the town


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## perplexed (27 Jul 2017)

According to the Beeb, Froome_ is_ doing the Vuelta...


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## Adam4868 (27 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/890551026373230594

Hope it's after 9pm......


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## brommers (29 Jul 2017)

Some changes have been made to the course.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/changes-made-to-key-vuelta-a-espana-stages/


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Some changes have been made to the course.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/changes-made-to-key-vuelta-a-espana-stages/



They're a bit late with their news, I posted about there being changes on Wednesday...



Marmion said:


> There have been recent changes to the Vuelta route, including making the ITT shorter. So they obviously read on here that I thought it was too long
> 
> View attachment 364443


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## Albrey (29 Jul 2017)

Starchivore said:


> I vow to follow La vuelta this time, being very very guilty of only ever really watching Le tour. I'd like to see some more of Spain, having never been there despite speaking a decent amount of Spanish. I'll be reliant on watching ITV4's highlights on catch-up though.



Get yourself Eurosport and watch the whole thing - the Vuelta's been an excellent tour the past couple of years.


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## brommers (29 Jul 2017)

and there's more!


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## jarlrmai (31 Jul 2017)

Can this thread be renamed "La Vuelta - Don't make me Angliru, you wouldn't like me when I'm Angliru?"


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## smutchin (31 Jul 2017)

The Angliru should be a doddle after Los Machucos on stage 17...


View: https://twitter.com/Vuelta2017/status/890691941989572608



View: https://twitter.com/Vuelta2017/status/892020193244962820


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## rich p (2 Aug 2017)

Chris Froome 8/11
Vincenzo Nibali 9/2 
Alberto Contador 8 
Ilnur Zakarin 12 
Fabio Aru 14 
Rigoberto Uran 22 
Miguel Angel Lopez 16 
Esteban Chaves 25 
Rafal Majka 25 
Adam Yates 25 
Steven Kruijswijk 28


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## SWSteve (2 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> The Angliru should be a doddle after Los Machucos on stage 17...
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/Vuelta2017/status/890691941989572608
> ...


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## brommers (2 Aug 2017)

Brailsford has probably got Team Sky running up hills with their bikes over their shoulders - just in case. Seriously though, I can see some riders doing this.


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## 400bhp (2 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Chris Froome 8/11
> Vincenzo Nibali 9/2
> Alberto Contador 8
> Ilnur Zakarin 12
> ...




Krossiwig for the win.
Soler for the breakthrough rider.


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## Crackle (2 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Brailsford has probably got Team Sky running up hills with their bikes over their shoulders - just in case. Seriously though, I can see some riders doing this.


Well Sky seemed to get the gearing all wrong in 2011 for the angliru, leaving the well known hot favourite, Cobo to ride away from Froome and Wiggins


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## Fight.The.Power (3 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Chris Froome 8/11
> Vincenzo Nibali 9/2
> Alberto Contador 8
> Ilnur Zakarin 12
> ...



Crikey interesting odds but seem completely removed from reality. Froome favourite ??? Contador third favourite ????

Think I would lay Froome win, lay Contador place.

Back Froome place, Back Zakarin win.


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## brommers (3 Aug 2017)

Why wouldn't they make Froome favourite?


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## 400bhp (3 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Why wouldn't they make Froome favourite?


Absolutely. It's not about who they think will win, it's about who they think people will lay the most money on.


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## SWSteve (3 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Why wouldn't they make Froome favourite?



They're a bookies, they want you to see favourable odds on Froome and lay a bet, so when he doesn't win they keep your cash


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## rich p (4 Aug 2017)

I'm afraid that I'm the bearer of bad news. Robbie Hatch mentioned in commentary that CK would be doing the Vuelta. Bugger.


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## brommers (4 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> I'm afraid that I'm the bearer of bad news. Robbie Hatch mentioned in commentary that CK would be doing the Vuelta. Bugger.


Yessss!


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## SWSteve (4 Aug 2017)

Bad news fans of riders who hate training but love carrying bottles, Adam Hanson will not be riding la Vuelta.

Fun fact, he makes his own carbon shoes, and also created the database teams use to track items and travel plans for race day.


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## smutchin (4 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Adam Hanson will not be riding la Vuelta



Oh no! I suppose it had to happen sooner or later though. What is it, 18 consecutive grand tours? That's a record that's going to stand for a long time.


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## brommers (4 Aug 2017)

That's a shame.


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## SWSteve (4 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Oh no! I suppose it had to happen sooner or later though. What is it, 18 consecutive grand tours? That's a record that's going to stand for a long time.



Yes, le Tour was his 18th GT, and la Vuelta would have been his 19th. Saddle sore had been a contributed, but this is supposedly behind him...


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## andrew_s (5 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> The Angliru should be a doddle after Los Machucos on stage 17...


A couple of uphill cattle grids (or pasos canadiense as the sign says) should be a new experience for some
https://goo.gl/maps/Cp2JsAhjYjJ2


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## nickyboy (5 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> The Angliru should be a doddle after Los Machucos on stage 17...
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/Vuelta2017/status/890691941989572608
> ...




There's a climb around here with a stretch of similar gradient, and more importantly, the same rutted concrete surface. Mercifully it's only a few hundred metres. I can just about keep going. Will be interesting to see how the pros handle the real thing


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## Adam4868 (5 Aug 2017)

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...book&utm_medium=social&utm_term=cyclingweekly
Piece of p..........


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## sleaver (7 Aug 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...book&utm_medium=social&utm_term=cyclingweekly
> Piece of p..........


Is that the best the organizers could come up with, even I would fancy my chances..........





.........they are going down and not up right


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## mjr (7 Aug 2017)

Albrey said:


> Get yourself Eurosport and watch the whole thing - the Vuelta's been an excellent tour the past couple of years.


There's currently second-hand HD-ready DIY kit which will receive German Eurosport for £60 click-and-collect at https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/used-hd-camping-and-caravanning-satellite-system-b44qu


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## 400bhp (7 Aug 2017)

nickyboy said:


> There's a climb around here with a stretch of similar gradient, and more importantly, the same rutted concrete surface. Mercifully it's only a few hundred metres. I can just about keep going. Will be interesting to see how the pros handle the real thing
> 
> View attachment 366149



Where's that?


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## mjr (7 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> Where's that?


http://instantstreetview.com/s/Cock+Brow,+Hyde it says.


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## SWSteve (7 Aug 2017)

HANSEN IS BACK IN THE SQUAD


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## brommers (10 Aug 2017)

Will be interesting to see how Julian Alaphilippe fares - not GC I suspect, particularly after being out for so long, but probably targeting stage wins.


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## SWSteve (10 Aug 2017)

I cannot wait to see the Race with the brothers Yates as well as Chavez all in the squad. 

If Chavez has managed to build on the tour, and has some semblance of previous form it could be a really exciting prospect to see the three of them working together. 

I would also love one of the Yates to be in the Young Rider jersey, whilst the other wins a stage, just to hear the stories of confusion from the race organisers...


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## brommers (10 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I cannot wait to see the Race with the brothers Yates as well as Chavez all in the squad.
> 
> If Chavez has managed to build on the tour, and has some semblance of previous form it could be a really exciting prospect to see the three of them working together.
> 
> I would also love one of the Yates to be in the Young Rider jersey, whilst the other wins a stage, just to hear the stories of confusion from the race organisers...


I don't think that there is a young riders' jersey


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## SWSteve (10 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't think that there is a young riders' jersey



News to me


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## SWSteve (10 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't think that there is a young riders' jersey




You're not wrong, they have that combined jersey. Ta a disgrace it isn't multi coloured/designs


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## mjr (11 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> You're not wrong, they have that combined jersey. Ta a disgrace it isn't multi coloured/designs


Not really. Who wants to wear a Frankenjersey?

It confused a few people when the decidedly-not-young Chris Horner was wearing the white jersey for a while a few years back...


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## brommers (14 Aug 2017)

I don't know why they bother with the points jersey - there's nothing in it for sprinters, as most of the intermediate sprints are towards the end of the stage. Likewise most of the breakaways will have been caught by then.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't think that there is a young riders' jersey


There's a young riders award (for riders born after 1 January 1992) but no jersey


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## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't know why they bother with the points jersey - there's nothing in it for sprinters, as most of the intermediate sprints are towards the end of the stage. Likewise most of the breakaways will have been caught by then.


The winner of the Points jersey last year did not win a stage.
Neither did the winner of the KOM.
The winner of the GC won 1 stage.


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## smutchin (14 Aug 2017)

I'm slightly surprised that Purito never won the points jersey in the Vuelta. I thought he had done at least once, but I must have been thinking of the Giro. He did win the Combination jersey in the Vuelta though.


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## brommers (14 Aug 2017)

Landa not riding the Vuelta


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## Adam4868 (14 Aug 2017)

Chris Froome
Christian Knees
David Lopez
Gianni Moscon
Mikel Nieve
Wout Poels
Salvatore Puccio
Diego Rosa
Ian Stannard
Not that bad of a lineup though.


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## andrew_s (15 Aug 2017)

Orica is 
Sam Bewley
Esteban Chaves
Magnus Cort Nielsen
Jack Haig
Christopher Juul-Jensen
Svein Tuft
Carlos Verona
Adam Yates
Simon Yates


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## sleaver (15 Aug 2017)

I know this is slightly off topic, but *if* Froome did win the Vuelta, would he go and have a crack at the Giro?


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## brommers (15 Aug 2017)

sleaver said:


> I know this is slightly off topic, but *if* Froome did win the Vuelta, would he go and have a crack at the Giro?


I think his main target is 5 TdFs


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## Stonechat (15 Aug 2017)

If Froome does not win then It could be someone who has not won a GT before


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## brommers (17 Aug 2017)

Does anyone know if there is a televised team presentation a la TdF?


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## darrensmith0410 (17 Aug 2017)

Sammy Sanchez has been withdrawn by BMC. Failed a drugs test. 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/17/samuel-sanchez-vuelta-failed-drug-test?CMP=twt_gu


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## brommers (18 Aug 2017)

Can't believe that this headline article is still on La Vuelta's official website

http://www.lavuelta.com/la-vuelta/2...d-him-veteran-sanchez-eyes-fresh-success.html

Maybe they'll take it off mañana


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## brommers (18 Aug 2017)

At 2.04m tall, will Conor Dunne of Aqua Blue Sport become the tallest rider in Grand Tour history?


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## smutchin (18 Aug 2017)

I just remembered that this time last year, we were all looking forward to Hugh Carthy making his Grand Tour debut...


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## rich p (18 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> I just remembered that this time last year, we were all looking forward to Hugh Carthy making his Grand Tour debut...


And then he went to the Black Hole team...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2017)

I just spotted that there is a 3rd Cat climb on the TTT route and checked the rules for scoring: "Along The first stage, team time trial Nîmes-Nîmes, the points for the Nimes Climb (3rd categories), will be owarded according to the first tree riders of the fastest team in that climb."

Apart from me thinking that nobody will be riding a tree, it also got me thinking that it might be worth some velogames points...and I think I have the very rider to be wearing GC and KOM jersey at the end of the TTT


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## 400bhp (19 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Can't believe that this headline article is still on La Vuelta's official website
> 
> http://www.lavuelta.com/la-vuelta/2...d-him-veteran-sanchez-eyes-fresh-success.html
> 
> Maybe they'll take it off mañana


It's manana.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Can't believe that this headline article is still on La Vuelta's official website
> 
> http://www.lavuelta.com/la-vuelta/2...d-him-veteran-sanchez-eyes-fresh-success.html
> 
> Maybe they'll take it off mañana





400bhp said:


> It's manana.


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## smutchin (19 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> It's manana.



Do-doo-be-do-do


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## smutchin (19 Aug 2017)

What on earth just happened to Lotto Jumbo?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> What on earth just happened to Lotto Jumbo?


No idea how that happened, stuck front wheel?


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## SWSteve (19 Aug 2017)

LOoks like the Lotto rider flipped over as the road starts to ramp up for a crossing - but bizarre it flipped him over. 

I know TT bikes aren't the best for braking or stability under slow speeds, but that just looked bizarre


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> LOoks like the Lotto rider flipped over as the road starts to ramp up for a crossing - but bizarre it flipped him over.
> 
> I know TT bikes aren't the best for braking or stability under slow speeds, but that just looked bizarre


It was Antwan Tolhoek (not sure of spelling), I have visited his twitter but nothing there explaining what went on


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## 400bhp (19 Aug 2017)

Your weight is well forward on a TT bike. Never seen that before but suppose it's possible if your brakes are carrying lots of tension.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

I have tweeted to Lotto Jumbo to ask. I don't expect a reply...


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## hoopdriver (20 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> It's manana.


It's _never _manana

It's always today


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## smutchin (20 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I have tweeted to Lotto Jumbo to ask. I don't expect a reply...




George Bennett reckons it was a pothole.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> George Bennett reckons it was a pothole.


I reckon it was mechanical but they're never going to admit that. There did not appear to be a pothole. A pothole on a TTT Grand Tour course? Mmmm...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

Here's our 2 Lotto Jumbo crashers from yesterday, ready to go on stage 2


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

Van Asbroeck, who I had considered as a PTP pick fr today, gets a hand writing his name


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## brommers (20 Aug 2017)

34km/h crosswinds - tasty!


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## smutchin (20 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> A pothole on a TTT Grand Tour course? Mmmm...



This is the Vuelta we're talking about - unprotected street furniture and parked cars on the course are the norm, so...


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## smutchin (20 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> Here's our 2 Lotto Jumbo crashers from yesterday, ready to go on stage 2



Tolhoek looks about 12 years old. Is that plaster on his chin from the crash or because he borrowed his dad's razor and hasn't learned how to use it properly yet?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

Why oh why oh why don't they ban small stone bridges?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

Oh no, wait a minute, no SKY riders were injured. Go the wee stone bridges...


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## roadrash (20 Aug 2017)

ah well at least the camera motorbikes only crashed into each other and not the peleton


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## smutchin (20 Aug 2017)

I've been out... what happened?


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## roadrash (20 Aug 2017)

nowt really,... just one camera bike braked and the one behind it... didn't....... no drama....no one injured


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> I've been out... what happened?





roadrash said:


> nowt really,... just one camera bike braked and the one behind it... didn't....... no drama....no one injured



Depends what you mean by "what happened?" - narrowing road into bridge or moto drivers? If the former, then the peloton were using the width of the road and the verge (which seemed to be a slightly less structured extension of the road) and then a wee stone bridge appeared...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2017)

I'm quite liking Aqua Blue Sport as a team, but never knew what Aqua Blue Sport were. Apparently "The world's best bike stores and brands at your fingertips" - I've had a look, and they are failing to live up to that. I can't see the sponsorship surviving. Unless I am missing something...


----------



## mjr (21 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm quite liking Aqua Blue Sport as a team, but never knew what Aqua Blue Sport were. Apparently "The world's best bike stores and brands at your fingertips" - I've had a look, and they are failing to live up to that. I can't see the sponsorship surviving. Unless I am missing something...


IIRC, it's not a sponsor but the store is operated by the team. Anyone ordered anything from them yet?


----------



## brommers (21 Aug 2017)

The whole stage is live on Eurosport today 12pm


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> The whole stage is live on Eurosport today 12pm


And it's a wet and dreary day here which is good. No guilty feelings for slobbing on the sofa.


----------



## Stonechat (21 Aug 2017)

Missed all the action so far. Hope to start today


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> IIRC, it's not a sponsor but the store is operated by the team. Anyone ordered anything from them yet?


They're not going to win much if they have to stop riding every now and then to take internet orders


----------



## roadrash (21 Aug 2017)

may be handy to post them if they pass a post office on any stage though


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Stonechat said:


> Missed all the action so far. Hope to start today



Don't worry, you've only missed a TTT and a sprint stage. The 'action' is actually starting today...


----------



## mjr (21 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Has anyone noticed the slightly Sky-centric nature of the BBC's reporting on the Vuelta so far. Headlines have been:
> Team Sky fourth on first stage of Vuelta
> Lampaert takes Vuelta lead as Froome loses time


I've not noticed anything slight about it.


----------



## brommers (21 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> I've not noticed anything slight about it.


BBC is a British media organisation and Sky are a British team, so I don't see a problem. I should imagine it is much more biased in some other countries.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Has anyone noticed the slightly Sky-centric nature of the BBC's reporting on the Vuelta so far. Headlines have been:
> Team Sky fourth on first stage of Vuelta
> Lampaert takes Vuelta lead as Froome loses time



I would be surprised if the BBC person writing about cycling knew anything about cycling. I'm think any information would be copied from a website and given a British slant. And, even then, not a very good one. It will be SKY, SKY, SKY...


----------



## SWSteve (21 Aug 2017)

The Aqua Blue thing is weird, they want to be 'sustainable' - where the team is propped up by a legitimate source, instead of having fickle sponsors, but if your site is carp as suggested, then their business shaln't do well.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

Does every giant have their own causeway?


----------



## Adam4868 (21 Aug 2017)

Only the 'cool' ones.


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> Does every giant have their own causeway?


Have you got one?


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

I spent a walking holiday in the Cerdagne once. It was hot, beautiful and Paula Radcliffe had her training base there.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> I spent a walking holiday in the Cerdagne once. It was hot, beautiful and Paula Radcliffe had her training base there.


Did it smell of Paula poo?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Have you got one?


I have a network of them


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2017)

"What am I talking about?..."

Yes, Carlton, we wonder that too on a regular basis


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Sky doing their thing again.


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Cheeky Froome!


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Is that Moscon at the front? Sky blew apart quickly


----------



## Crackle (21 Aug 2017)

Contador off the back


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Johnny Racist drops the hammer - right on Contador's head.


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

User3094 said:


> I wish you lot would expand a little, it is supposed to be a spoiler thread!



Sky have been dragging the peloton along like a TGV for a while, then when they hit the final climb, Moscon cranked it up another gear and Contador instantly blew out the back.

Nibali, Aru, Bardet, Tejay, Chaves and Pozzovivo are still with the small lead group.

Alaphillipe, one of the riders tipped by many for the stage win today, isn't.

Nor is Barguil.


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Froome goes with Chavez


----------



## Crackle (21 Aug 2017)

Froome gets a gap and the moto nearly gets in the way


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Nibs struggling


----------



## Crackle (21 Aug 2017)

oooh it's all looking a bit messy now


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Never liked the Shark of Messina...


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Blimey, Bert has already lost 2 mins


----------



## Crackle (21 Aug 2017)

Looks like Chavez and Froome are going to let Aru and Bardet make the catch


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Is anyone going to help Froome?


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Aru and Bardet are catching Froome and Chaves on the descent. De la Cruz not far behind.

Everyone else can be considered an also-ran.


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Is anyone going to help Froome?



Does he need help?


----------



## Crackle (21 Aug 2017)

Are there bonifications?


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Yes, I think so


----------



## smutchin (21 Aug 2017)

Great win by Nibali. Looked like he was out of the running until the final km.


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

Bardet, Aru and Chaves lost a chance to distance Nibs etc


----------



## rich p (21 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Does he need help?


Yep!!!


----------



## themosquitoking (21 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Does he need help?





rich p said:


> Yep!!!



In fact i'm pretty sure his team have made a point of employing the best help they can.


----------



## brommers (21 Aug 2017)

I've done my picks for Tuesday: sprinters - but I know it's going to be a breakaway


----------



## brommers (22 Aug 2017)

Sky must have been impressed with their 'new boy' David de la Cruz. If he falls out of contention, perhaps he'll do some work for Froome later on in the race.
Seriously though, what a great start to the race - so much better than the bore-fest of the opening week of the TdF.


----------



## rich p (22 Aug 2017)

FWIW, I think this Sky team isn't up to the usual standard.
Poels was out the back pretty quickly which wasn't the case last year when he was flying and Froome's last man.
Nieve too and he's getting on a bit and bust a gut in the TdF.
Rosa similarly and he seems to be exhibiting the, not uncommon, trait of not seeming as good after leaving Astana. A more suspicious person might be stroking his chin thoughtfully.
Puccio is average at best and Moscon is a great prospect but not the bloke you'd expect to be last man standing, as he was yesterday.
That's not to say that Froome won't win though as he's possibly already shown up weaknesses in the Yates, Zakkarin and Bertie.
I'm not sure that Sky would want to protect the jersey all the way from here.


----------



## smutchin (22 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Poels was out the back pretty quickly which wasn't the case last year when he was flying and Froome's last man.



Apparently, Nicolas Portal said before the race that he thought Poels might finish on the podium. Maybe he wasn't talking about this year... He's clearly not back to his best yet.

On the subject of Rosa, don't forget that Kwiatkowski looked decidedly average in his first season at Sky. It takes some riders time to settle in a new team, and some never do. I read an old Kwiatkowski interview yesterday in which he said that one of the reasons for him rediscovering his form is that Sky allowed him to go back to some of his old training methods. Read into that what you will!


----------



## 400bhp (22 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> FWIW, I think this Sky team isn't up to the usual standard.
> Poels was out the back pretty quickly which wasn't the case last year when he was flying and Froome's last man.
> Nieve too and he's getting on a bit and bust a gut in the TdF.
> Rosa similarly and he seems to be exhibiting the, not uncommon, trait of not seeming as good after leaving Astana. A more suspicious person might be stroking his chin thoughtfully.
> ...



Agree, reckon they will last a week.

It's over anyway in my view.


----------



## rich p (22 Aug 2017)

400bhp said:


> Agree, reckon they will last a week.
> 
> It's over anyway in my view.


Are you over there this year 400?


----------



## roadrash (22 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> FWIW, I think this Sky team isn't up to the usual standard.
> Poels was out the back pretty quickly which wasn't the case last year when he was flying and Froome's last man.
> Nieve too and he's getting on a bit and bust a gut in the TdF.
> Rosa similarly and he seems to be exhibiting the, not uncommon, trait of not seeming as good after leaving Astana. A more suspicious person might be stroking his chin thoughtfully.
> ...





And here I sit stroking my chin thoughtfuly


----------



## mjr (22 Aug 2017)

roadrash said:


> And here I sit stroking my chin thoughtfuly


Yeah, did classics rider Moscon leading a grand tour up mountains make anyone else think of Frankie Andreu's sudden conversion to a climbing domestique and get slightly nervous? I hope it's not that - as I think Millar said afterwards, he's not really targetted stage races before and he may be trying to make amends for his suspension offence - but it did come to my mind. Such is the damage still done by Lance, Landis and company


----------



## smutchin (22 Aug 2017)

If you're a decent time-triallist like Moscon, a climb like that one yesterday is perfect for riding a sustained hard tempo - the power numbers are more significant than the gradient. 

And having done his bit, he then went pop and finished the stage five minutes down.


----------



## 400bhp (22 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> Are you over there this year 400?



Unfortunately not, and I had the opportunity of free accom near the Cumbre Del Sol


----------



## 400bhp (22 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> If you're a decent time-triallist like Moscon, a climb like that one yesterday is perfect for riding a sustained hard tempo - the power numbers are more significant than the gradient.
> 
> And having done his bit, he then went pop and finished the stage five minutes down.



Spot on.


----------



## brommers (22 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> Yeah, did classics rider Moscon leading a grand tour up mountains make anyone else think of Frankie Andreu's sudden conversion to a climbing domestique and get slightly nervous? I hope it's not that - as I think Millar said afterwards, he's not really targetted stage races before and he may be trying to make amends for his suspension offence - but it did come to my mind. Such is the damage still done by Lance, Landis and company


Moscon won the Arctic Race of Norway last year, including soloing to victory on one of the stages.


----------



## mjr (22 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> Moscon won the Arctic Race of Norway last year, including soloing to victory on one of the stages.


Nice picture but if you do the maths, that's what, 11km averaging less than 5%? Yesterday's penultimate climb was over 13km at nearly 7%. Is it really comparable?

Also, the Arctic Race is second-division and held just after the Tour, San Sebastian, RideLondon-Surrey and the Tour of Poland IIRC, so I don't feel too bad for not noticing him there - it looks like he beat Stef Clement and Oscar Gatto in the GC, while Tom Van Asbroeck took the mountains prize - not climbers who will feature in the Vuelta.


----------



## rich p (22 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> Nice picture but if you do the maths, that's what, 11km averaging less than 5%? Yesterday's penultimate climb was over 13km at nearly 7%. Is it really comparable?
> 
> Also, the Arctic Race is second-division and held just after the Tour, San Sebastian, RideLondon-Surrey and the Tour of Poland IIRC, so I don't feel too bad for not noticing him there - it looks like he beat Stef Clement and Oscar Gatto in the GC, while Tom Van Asbroeck took the mountains prize - not climbers who will feature in the Vuelta.


I'd never say never but I haven't seen anything in Moscon's performances that suggest he's on the juice and taht includes yesterday's lung-bursting effort and subsequent blow up..


----------



## perplexed (22 Aug 2017)

My 2025 sporting almanac sez that Froome started this year looking for his 2nd Vuelta win...


----------



## SWSteve (22 Aug 2017)

perplexed said:


> My 2025 sporting almanac sez that Froome started this year looking for his 2nd Vuelta win...



Stage win?


----------



## perplexed (22 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Stage win?



Nah, GC...


----------



## SWSteve (22 Aug 2017)

Is the advertising on Eurosport insanely cheap, or are the creators of Grepolis sweating money - I guess they have similar customers (older men, sat on their ass doing nothing during the day) but it's bloody ridiculous. 

Also, that advert for Alpecin when they're in the bus is brilliantly terrible - I give it two thumbs up


----------



## SWSteve (22 Aug 2017)

perplexed said:


> Nah, GC...



Surely Nibali will be awarded Horner's win....


----------



## themosquitoking (22 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Is the advertising on Eurosport insanely cheap, or are the creators of Grepolis sweating money - I guess they have similar customers (older men, sat on their ass doing nothing during the day) but it's bloody ridiculous.
> 
> Also, that advert for Alpecin when they're in the bus is brilliantly terrible - I give it two thumbs up


I hated it by 16:15 on Saturday after two viewings. Now i'm almost starting to believe it's some weird Germanic masterpiece that causes pain, like Kraftwerk or the Ring Cycle.


----------



## mjr (22 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> I'd never say never but I haven't seen anything in Moscon's performances that suggest he's on the juice and taht includes yesterday's lung-bursting effort and subsequent blow up..


I hope you're correct...


----------



## mjr (22 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Is the advertising on Eurosport insanely cheap, or are the creators of Grepolis sweating money - I guess they have similar customers (older men, sat on their ass doing nothing during the day) but it's bloody ridiculous.
> 
> Also, that advert for Alpecin when they're in the bus is brilliantly terrible - I give it two thumbs up


The Alpecin advert has shown up in the ITV4 highlights too. It's truly awful. I struggle to think of a worse one this year.


----------



## Adam4868 (22 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> The Alpecin advert has shown up in the ITV4 highlights too. It's truly awful. I struggle to think of a worse one this year.


I swear it works,I saw one less grey hair today !.Go Alpecin......


----------



## SWSteve (23 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> The Alpecin advert has shown up in the ITV4 highlights too. It's truly awful. I struggle to think of a worse one this year.



Have you become aware of watchfinder? Their adverts are god awful


----------



## SWSteve (23 Aug 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I swear it works,I saw one less grey hair today !.Go Alpecin......



I thought it boosts growth, not anti-grey


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I thought it boosts growth, not anti-grey


It's snake oil then !


----------



## rich p (23 Aug 2017)

Two middle mountain stages today and tomorrow. Froome looks like he wants to be aggressive in this race so let's hope that some of the other teams try to stick it to Sky when they can. 
I suspect Froome thinks he's got the measure of the rest in the high mountains and the ITT.


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Aug 2017)

Felt sorry for pozzovivo yesterday,just outside the 3k when crashed.I though he had a good chance at this Vuelta.


----------



## Crackle (23 Aug 2017)

I'd forgotten how boring Spanish scenery was.


----------



## mjr (23 Aug 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Have you become aware of watchfinder? Their adverts are god awful


The bus is worse IMO.


----------



## smutchin (23 Aug 2017)

Having seen how steep the final climb is on today's stage, I think I may have got my punditry predictions wrong.

Oh well, CBA to change them now.


----------



## rich p (23 Aug 2017)

I know you all know but Kirby is a complete farking self-gratification artist.
He just speculated whether Chavez would be allowed to go in a break. FFS.


----------



## roadrash (23 Aug 2017)

the man is a first class, prize bell end..................................Kirby,...... not chaves


----------



## smutchin (23 Aug 2017)

Haven't really been paying attention to the race, but just had a look and was surprised to see the gap still out at over 6mins with 24km to go. Looks like the break might get to have their fun today.


----------



## brommers (23 Aug 2017)

It's all going to kick off tomorrow on the final climb. Overall it's 9.3km @ 5.1%, but if you take a closer look, the middle section looks really steep.
By the way, Carlton Kirby has got to be careful with what he says on the approach to the finish.


----------



## Crackle (23 Aug 2017)

It's a long run in though, Brommers. I can't see anyone taking a punt yet, perhaps if it was nearer to the end of week 3. I'm plumping for a breakaway again.


----------



## SWSteve (23 Aug 2017)

Lutschenko seems to have gone for the Betancur method of being a cyclist 'I didn't weight played such a big factor'


----------



## themosquitoking (23 Aug 2017)

brommers said:


> It's all going to kick off tomorrow on the final climb. Overall it's 9.3km @ 5.1%, but if you take a closer look, the middle section looks really steep.
> By the way, Carlton Kirby has got to be careful with what he says on the approach to the finish.
> View attachment 369677


Immediately i had about four ways he could get that wrong that would need bleeps in the highlights. Cudos to one of the Yates twins in their interview for getting bleeped too.


----------



## rich p (24 Aug 2017)

I just read a quote by Charlie Wegelius who said that the Vuelta is race for riders who either didn't want to be there, or were desperate to perform.
Seems about right!


----------



## 400bhp (24 Aug 2017)

rich p said:


> I just read a quote by Charlie Wegelius who said that the Vuelta is race for riders who either didn't want to be there, or were desperate to perform.
> Seems about right!


You could probably say that about any race. 

Froomes competition is embarrassingly bad so I can only assume he is the only one who is desperate to perform.


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Aug 2017)

Chavez..he looks pretty good to me.Froome looks in top form though,and sky as a team.Who needs Pouls and Nieve when you've got Moscons wheel.


----------



## smutchin (24 Aug 2017)

Yeah, Chaves looks like he's at least on Froome's level at the moment. Will be interesting to see how they compare when they get to the big mountains. The time trial is likely to be Chaves' undoing though.

No one else looks anywhere close to Froome at the moment - except perhaps Tejay, surprisingly.


----------



## Crackle (24 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, Chaves looks like he's at least on Froome's level at the moment. Will be interesting to see how they compare when they get to the big mountains. The time trial is likely to be Chaves' undoing though.
> 
> No one else looks anywhere close to Froome at the moment - except perhaps Tejay, surprisingly.


It's still early days yet but I'm surprised at people like Barguil who doesn't look prepared for this. Also Nibali, who surely has prepared for this. he might come good later and Froome start to fade with a GT already in his legs but he's approaching this like he knows that and is trying to get the gaps early maybe with a view to holding on in the third week.


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Aug 2017)

Crackle said:


> It's still early days yet but I'm surprised at people like Barguil who doesn't look prepared for this. Also Nibali, who surely has prepared for this. he might come good later and Froome start to fade with a GT already in his legs but he's approaching this like he knows that and is trying to get the gaps early maybe with a view to holding on in the third week.


It's the team around Froome aswell.There a pretty hard nut to crack so to speak.Once they get a grip at the head of a stage it's hard,cycling by numbers so to speak.That's not taking anything away from Froome,who I think is in top form.Guess I'm biased cause I'm a big Froome fan ! The rest of the GC are going to have to have a go sooner rather than later I think,I wouldn't write off any of them yet.Except maybe poor old Bertie......


----------



## Beebo (24 Aug 2017)

Froome very close to being taken out by that crash.


----------



## smutchin (24 Aug 2017)

What on earth happened? It looked like Tejay just decided to turn right at the wrong moment - tangled handlebars?

Shame for Tejay, he was looking strong.


----------



## Slaav (24 Aug 2017)

Is Tejay the new GT?


----------



## rliu (24 Aug 2017)

The design of these Vuelta stages and the lack of big name sprinters is making the fantasy road cc game darn difficult


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Aug 2017)

Just watched highlights,what the f...has happened to Bardet.I had high hopes for him.Another tough but controlled day.


----------



## mjr (24 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, Chaves looks like he's at least on Froome's level at the moment. Will be interesting to see how they compare when they get to the big mountains. The time trial is likely to be Chaves' undoing though.
> 
> No one else looks anywhere close to Froome at the moment - except perhaps Tejay, surprisingly.


You jinx you! Tejay crashing, Chavez dropped.


----------



## roadrash (25 Aug 2017)

fekin camera bike brings a rider down ,


----------



## smutchin (25 Aug 2017)

Missed the whole thing today. What happened?


----------



## Beebo (25 Aug 2017)

roadrash said:


> fekin camera bike brings a rider down ,


I haven't seen it yet. But the motor bike riding seems to have been particularly bad at this race.


----------



## roadrash (25 Aug 2017)

@smutchin I only saw a split second of it , but cyclist collides with moto rider according to cycling weeklys report,...

Rafael Reis of Caja Rural-Seguros knew this first hand after some cobbles and a nearing corner saw him collide with a moto, forcing the rider off his bike to the floor. found here....

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...tage-seven-of-the-vuelta-a-espana-2017-347831


----------



## gavroche (25 Aug 2017)

I wish Froome would change his script when interviewed. " The guys were fantastic today, the team did a great job." It is becoming a bit too predictable and boring. I like Froome but please, talk a bit more about the actual race, not your team.


----------



## roadrash (25 Aug 2017)

I take it you missed him talking about Contador yesterday then


----------



## gavroche (25 Aug 2017)

roadrash said:


> I take it you missed him talking about Contador yesterday then


He still came up with his team doing so well.


----------



## roadrash (25 Aug 2017)

damned if he does and damned if he doesn't,


----------



## Adam4868 (25 Aug 2017)

I don't think there's anyone close to Froome,it's his to lose now.Hes so relaxed in interviews after stages,where the rest look like they have just finished a three week tour ! As for not thanking his team.......what else would you like,what he ate,what he thought of the scenery ?


----------



## HF2300 (26 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Missed the whole thing today. What happened?



Race wise Rojas relaxed at the top of the climb and let Mohoric get away for the win. Moto wise was difficult to tell from the short clip shown, but it looked as though Reis and a commissaire's moto were on a converging course on the cobbles, possibly due to Reis moving over towards the moto. Whether this was due to Ries or the moto driver not being aware, Reis having difficulty with the cobbles, the moto not allowing him the space he needed given the cobbles or a bit of both was difficult to say.


----------



## Stonechat (26 Aug 2017)

Warren Barguil withdrawn by Sunweb for disagreeing with team orders


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2017)

Stonechat said:


> Warren Barguil withdrawn by Sunweb for disagreeing with team orders


I have heard it said that he's a prize-winning bell-end. Sounds as if his team think so as well.


----------



## Adam4868 (26 Aug 2017)

I can't imagine him raising his voice ?


----------



## rich p (26 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I have heard it said that he's a prize-winning bell-end. Sounds as if his team think so as well.


I picked the knob on today's punditry, the twat.


----------



## rich p (26 Aug 2017)

I fecking hope this race warms up next week.
Breakaways have limited interest day after day and nobody attacking Froome or Sky is not exactly rivetting


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2017)

I've said it before but it's worth repeating, Quick Step are having an outstanding season.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Aug 2017)

That should be Benidorm off everyone's holiday list...


----------



## roadrash (27 Aug 2017)

ive seen riders remove a shoe whilst riding but that's the first time ive seen anyone remove shoe and sock and put them back on while still riding


----------



## Adam4868 (27 Aug 2017)

Chapeau Froome, great stage today !


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2017)

He wanted that


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Aug 2017)

Timed to perfection by Sky and Froome turned himself inside out for that. Was that his first stage victory of the year?


----------



## Adam4868 (27 Aug 2017)

He deserved it,by far the strongest there.


----------



## rich p (27 Aug 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Timed to perfection by Sky and Froome turned himself inside out for that. Was that his first stage victory of the year?


Yes!


----------



## roadrash (27 Aug 2017)

connondale did sky a massive favour today, pulled on the front all day, sky saved their resources for the final climb, I thought froome had gone too early at first but a much deserved stage win and 10 sec bonus


----------



## Supersuperleeds (27 Aug 2017)

I do like that Chaves lad. He comes across really well in his interviews.


----------



## Adam4868 (27 Aug 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I do like that Chaves lad. He comes across really well in his interviews.


Me too,he smiles even when in pain ! He is my Mrs cycling crush......great things to come from him I think/hope


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Aug 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> He deserved it,by far the strongest there.


And you were the strongest pundit today, scores just about to be updated...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Aug 2017)

A SKY fanboy is getting a bit carried away with his biro on twitter


----------



## 400bhp (27 Aug 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Me too,he smiles even when in pain ! He is my Mrs cycling crush......great things to come from him I think/hope



Not unless he greatly improves his TTing.


----------



## Pumpkin (27 Aug 2017)

What chance of Yates finishing in top 3?


----------



## rich p (27 Aug 2017)

Pumpkin said:


> What chance of Yates finishing in top 3?


Zilch or nada as we say, in Spain.


----------



## mjr (27 Aug 2017)

gavroche said:


> I wish Froome would change his script when interviewed. " The guys were fantastic today, the team did a great job." It is becoming a bit too predictable and boring. I like Froome but please, talk a bit more about the actual race, not your team.


So today he talked about another team instead


----------



## SpokeyDokey (28 Aug 2017)

gavroche said:


> I wish Froome would change his script when interviewed. " The guys were fantastic today, the team did a great job." It is becoming a bit too predictable and boring. I like Froome but please, talk a bit more about the actual race, not your team.



Maybe it would help if there was not such a rush to carry out the interviews so close to race end?

An interview would be one of the last things I'd want to do having pulled my tripe out on a hard day like yesterday.


----------



## gavroche (28 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> So today he talked about another team instead


Maybe he reads this thread?


----------



## themosquitoking (28 Aug 2017)

gavroche said:


> Maybe he reads this thread?


Let's hope not.


----------



## Beebo (29 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oh, is this still going on?
> 
> It has failed to grip me. I'd forgotten all about it over the holiday weekend.


Rest day yesterday, so you missed nothing.
But Froome seems to be the only one who wants to win this.


----------



## KneesUp (29 Aug 2017)

Beebo said:


> Rest day yesterday, so you missed nothing.
> But Froome seems to be the only one who IS ABLE to win this.



ftfy.


----------



## Adam4868 (29 Aug 2017)

There has to be more to come,attacks on sky/froome I mean.The climbs get a lot longer,and riders more fatigued by end of first week.Surely Orica will have to sacrifice some riders to look after Chavez ? The yates brothers ? There has to be a plan B to topple Froome.Im not so sure no one else wants it,but on the performance of the last week he's shown he is the strongest and looks at his best.I guess everyone else is hoping he has a bad day in the next couple of weeks !


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2017)

This descent is stomach-churning to watch.

Presumably Bahrain are pushing on to make sure Nibali is at the front of the group over the summit...


----------



## mjr (29 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> This descent is stomach-churning to watch.
> 
> Presumably Bahrain are pushing on to make sure Nibali is at the front of the group over the summit...


Well that didn't work for them, really.

Talking of stomach churning, how about Geniez speedway turning his way down the descent? Now I like kicking out a leg sometimes, but at those speeds?


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2017)

mjr said:


> Well that didn't work for them, really.



No, bit of a wasted effort but good to show he's still interested in the fight. It would be foolish to write off Nibali just yet.



> Talking of stomach churning, how about Geniez speedway turning his way down the descent? Now I like kicking out a leg sometimes, but at those speeds?



That was quite unsettling to watch.


----------



## Dave Davenport (29 Aug 2017)

Just back from our trip to Spain. We decided to treat ourselves to four nights in a nice hotel (after a months camping) before coming home, then a load of cyclists turned up and virtually took the place over for three days. Apparently, the tall skinny bloke stood between me and Mrs D is a bit of a hot shot on a bike.


----------



## ColinJ (29 Aug 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Just back from our trip to Spain. We decided to treat ourselves to four nights in a nice hotel (after a months camping) before coming home, then a load of cyclists turned up and virtually took the place over for three days. Apparently, the tall skinny bloke stood between me and Mrs D is a bit of a hot shot on a bike.
> View attachment 370711


Blimey - that really does show how skinny he is - you wouldn't believe that he actually has any muscles in those legs!


----------



## themosquitoking (29 Aug 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Just back from our trip to Spain. We decided to treat ourselves to four nights in a nice hotel (after a months camping) before coming home, then a load of cyclists turned up and virtually took the place over for three days. Apparently, the tall skinny bloke stood between me and Mrs D is a bit of a hot shot on a bike.
> View attachment 370711


The width of the shorts at the bottom are so ridiculous compared to his legs it looks photoshopped. How can he even stand up on those let alone pedal a bike.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> The width of the shorts at the bottom are so ridiculous compared to his legs it looks photoshopped. How can he even stand up on those let alone pedal a bike.



Looks like the bottom half of Tintin!


----------



## ColinJ (29 Aug 2017)

Buddfox said:


> Looks like the bottom half of Tintin!


And Dave looks like the top half!


----------



## BrumJim (30 Aug 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Just back from our trip to Spain. We decided to treat ourselves to four nights in a nice hotel (after a months camping) before coming home, then a load of cyclists turned up and virtually took the place over for three days. Apparently, the tall skinny bloke stood between me and Mrs D is a bit of a hot shot on a bike.
> View attachment 370711



I look up to him, because he is the world's top cyclist at the moment. I look down to her, because she's my wife.
(although I'm sure that you don't)


----------



## Beebo (30 Aug 2017)

big mountain top finish today. 
Let's see if anyone can put the squeeze on Froome. 




Other than Mrs Davenport.


----------



## Beebo (30 Aug 2017)

Froome looked rough the whole way up the final climb. Maybe he was sandbagging. 
Then with 1.5km to go it all went crazy and he finished a strong second place.


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2017)

Beebo said:


> Froome looked rough the whole way up the final climb. Maybe he was sandbagging.
> Then with 1.5km to go it all went crazy and he finished a strong second place.



Extremely clever riding by Froome. If you watch he gets a tow from Lopez in particular in the last few K, shielding himself from the wind.


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2017)

Froome is so hard to read. He never looks good even when he is. I suspect he was feeling the pace today but then so was everyone else. He's tougher than his spindly legs would suggest but if there was someone able to properly test him he might be found out. 
In any event, he can save himself with the ITT anyway.


----------



## ColinJ (30 Aug 2017)

Being so skinny and coming from a hot country, I imagine that Froome really feels the cold, in which case today's grotty weather would have significantly affected him.


----------



## Dave Davenport (31 Aug 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Being so skinny and coming from a hot country, I imagine that Froome really feels the cold, in which case today's grotty weather would have significantly affected him.


He said he goes best in hot weather at the end of the stage.


----------



## Adam4868 (31 Aug 2017)

Lots of riders suffered yesterday,did you see Chavez being interviewed at the end,he looked fecked ! As Froome said it was tough....But I think he's actually rode himself into better form this year.Hes the strongest there,with the strongest team.Another thing about Froome is he's so controlled,doesn't panic,doesn't waste any energy and takes time wherever he can.The best anyone else can hope for is misfortune or error by Sky.
For me he's the best GC rider we've seen in a long time,it's no fluke he works for it and it pays of.


----------



## smutchin (31 Aug 2017)

That's awful. Why on earth would anyone do that?


----------



## roadrash (31 Aug 2017)

^^^^^^ fekin unbelievable^^^^^^^


----------



## Jason (31 Aug 2017)

the best thing about these grand tours is how accessible they are to the public, but unfortunately it gives access to every nutter, drunk and crazed fanboy of other teams


----------



## Beebo (31 Aug 2017)

Froome down on the deck twice in 2 minutes!
Less than 5 km to go, so could lose some time.


----------



## smutchin (31 Aug 2017)

And I so very nearly picked Marczynski for the punditry today, dammit!

Good win.


----------



## smutchin (31 Aug 2017)

Beebo said:


> Froome down on the deck twice in 2 minutes!
> Less than 5 km to go, so could lose some time.



Good to see there's none of that 'respect the red jersey' nonsense going on.


----------



## Beebo (31 Aug 2017)

smutchin said:


> Good to see there's none of that 'respect the red jersey' nonsense going on.


Contador was well ahead so he kept going.
The others seemed to hesitate for a bit, then went for it too.


----------



## Nomadski (31 Aug 2017)

I've watched that second incident 10 times and I still can't figure out how the hell it happened.


----------



## Nomadski (31 Aug 2017)

Never mind, think on the way home I figured it out...


----------



## Beebo (31 Aug 2017)

Nomadski said:


> Never mind, think on the way home I figured it out...
> 
> View attachment 370947
> 
> ...


I hope the support vehicle was quickly on scene and your team pulled you back into contact with the peloton.


----------



## 400bhp (31 Aug 2017)

Jasonbourne said:


> the best thing about these grand tours is how accessible they are to the public, but unfortunately it gives access to every nutter, drunk and crazed fanboy of other teams


I don't think Marmiom went this year.


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2017)

Nomadski said:


> Never mind, think on the way home I figured it out...
> 
> View attachment 370947
> 
> ...


 You really can't stay upright can you.


----------



## Nomadski (31 Aug 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> You really can't stay upright can you.



I was testing the new water bottles to see if they would stay in the cage. (They did).

#testcomplete


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2017)

Nomadski said:


> I was testing the new water bottles to see if they would stay in the cage. (They did).
> 
> #testcomplete


They did last time too. Really, I think they're fine. You'll have new ones to try out next week though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2017)

I've not seen any highlights so not sure what happened today other than the results; had a brief look a twitter and spotted a rider (Katusha?) getting pushed off his bike, WTF happened there???!!!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (31 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I've not seen any highlights so not sure what happened today other than the results; had a brief look a twitter and spotted a rider (Katusha?) getting pushed off his bike, WTF happened there???!!!



Hopefully the other spectators dished out some immediate justice.


----------



## Crackle (31 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> I've not seen any highlights so not sure what happened today other than the results; had a brief look a twitter and spotted a rider (Katusha?) getting pushed off his bike, WTF happened there???!!!


Some angry geezer pissed that Rapha don't make kit in his size and taking it out on Maxime Belkov.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2017)

Crackle said:


> Some angry geezer pissed that Rapha don't make kit in his size and taking it out on Maxime Belkov.



Bigly mental


----------



## Crackle (31 Aug 2017)

Marmion said:


> Bigly mental


I reckon his NAS broke and support farked him off.


----------



## Adam4868 (31 Aug 2017)

Just watched highlights,first the motorbike down by police pushing spectator across road.Then some dick pushing Katusha rider of bike !


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2017)

Crackle said:


> I reckon his NAS broke and support farked him off.


If only he had been a soft git...


----------



## Adam4868 (31 Aug 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/903305095936401408


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2017)

WTF were they selling to the crowd??? Buckfast?


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2017)

Cheap but amazing olive oil if you heard the bs from ck.


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2017)

Mental


----------



## Jason (1 Sep 2017)

Amidst all this Froomy fell off his bike twice and Contador attacked. Nice to see SKY being pushed a bit.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> Contador was well ahead so he kept going.
> The others seemed to hesitate for a bit, then went for it too.


the race was definitely on, so Froome's two falls were just too bad.


----------



## Slaav (1 Sep 2017)

Strathlubnaig said:


> the race was definitely on, so Froome's two falls were just too bad.



On the commentary I was watching the point was made that it was maybe the Contador attack which pushed everyone and it was/is no coincidence that riders start to mak mistakes when put under pressure.....

Edit to add - it was David Millar! he said that Bertie's attacks force mistakes from competitors and that is part of the point of doing so.


----------



## MikeG (1 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Comment from Belkov re the pushing incident
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/status/903535634089959424




Classy. I like that.


----------



## mjr (1 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Good to see there's none of that 'respect the red jersey' nonsense going on.


Nibali's post-stage interview on itv4 was rather prickly about the subject. It seemed like Nibali was inclined to wait and was a bit offended by any question about whether he did, but when Froome didn't return from the first crash soon (not sure he was aware of the second), they felt they had to chase Bertie - and Bertie had attacked well before the crash so was perfectly entitled to. Possibly Nibali felt the first crash was a freak one on slippy roads which could have happened to any of them, rather than poor skill - Is it notable that renowned descender Nibali didn't seem to be attacking hard on that one? General reputation of southern Spanish roads or had recon told him it was a bit dodgy?



Jasonbourne said:


> Amidst all this Froomy fell off his bike twice and Contador attacked. Nice to see SKY being pushed a bit.


No, it was a Katusha rider that was pushed.


----------



## mjr (1 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Comment from Belkov re the pushing incident
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/status/903535634089959424



Mixed feelings. If that man's mental health makes him a danger to others like that, wouldn't it actually be helpful for Belkov to make no-further-action conditional on the man seeking further help? What if he does it again to someone out cycling on open roads?


----------



## Crackle (1 Sep 2017)

mjr said:


> Mixed feelings. If that man's mental health makes him a danger to others like that, wouldn't it actually be helpful for Belkov to make no-further-action conditional on the man seeking further help? What if he does it again to someone out cycling on open roads?


Suggestions on Twitter suggested he had Downs syndrome so I'm not sure such a condition would work just one of those freak events which you have to let pass. Luckily Belkov was unhurt and probably not affected by the incident now he knows the circumstances.


----------



## roadrash (1 Sep 2017)

good to hear belkov is unhurt, and jolly decent of him to respond like that, respect to belkov


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Sep 2017)

If anyone finds a rooster, can they ram it down Carlton's throat?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Sep 2017)

A cock and balls shaped road...makes a change from the cock and balls being painted on the road


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2017)

Froome covers all the moves. Bloke of no consequence to the GC wins stage. Status quo.
Not uninteresting in the hills but not edge of the seat stuff.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2017)

The edge of the seat stuff is provided by the time gaps. It's the slimmest of margins with little room for error. Kelderman is quietly moving up at 2.17 and he can TT.


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2017)

Brave effort from Adam Yates today.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2017)

Lopez has got some kick. Why is he 4 minutes down, I must have missed that.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> Lopez has got some kick. Why is he 4 minutes down, I must have missed that.


He seems to be riding into fitness after an injury spoiled season. Or he likes the steak...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> Lopez has got some kick. Why is he 4 minutes down, I must have missed that.


Astana were about 30 seconds behind Sky in TTT and he also lost over a minute on Froome in stage 3 and just under a minute in stage 5, and then "bits and pieces" since


----------



## HF2300 (3 Sep 2017)

So, @Marmion - Alpecin ads; The Beautiful Marcel in the shower or a crazed shouty DS on a bus of sweaty pro cyclists?


----------



## sleaver (4 Sep 2017)

Thought I would wait until the rest day to ask this.

I'm off to Spain on Saturday, more specifically Madrid. Complete coincidence the timing of that................... So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on watching the final stage? I'm not to fussed if I'm not by the finish as I don't really want to have to get there really early just so that I can see. Seeing the podium would be good but I saw an overhead shot of last year and it looked a bit busy.

If I can stand by the barrier and have a good view I'd be happy 

Any tips or secrets would be gratefully received as this will be the first time seeing a Grand Tour stage.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2017)

HF2300 said:


> So, @Marmion - Alpecin ads; The Beautiful Marcel in the shower or a crazed shouty DS on a bus of sweaty pro cyclists?


Marcel shouting at me in the shower...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> Thought I would wait until the rest day to ask this.
> 
> I'm off to Spain on Saturday, more specifically Madrid. Complete coincidence the timing of that................... So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on watching the final stage? I'm not to fussed if I'm not by the finish as I don't really want to have to get there really early just so that I can see. Seeing the podium would be good but I saw an overhead shot of last year and it looked a bit busy.
> 
> ...


Looks like they do 8 laps in Madrid, you'll have no problem finding somewhere to watch it and there will likely be big screens too


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> Thought I would wait until the rest day to ask this.
> 
> I'm off to Spain on Saturday, more specifically Madrid. Complete coincidence the timing of that................... So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on watching the final stage? I'm not to fussed if I'm not by the finish as I don't really want to have to get there really early just so that I can see. Seeing the podium would be good but I saw an overhead shot of last year and it looked a bit busy.
> 
> ...


Been to quite a few and I don't think there's any real secret,just pick a spot you fancy.Im going myself on Sunday,looking forward to it !


----------



## BalkanExpress (4 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> Thought I would wait until the rest day to ask this.
> 
> I'm off to Spain on Saturday, more specifically Madrid. Complete coincidence the timing of that................... So I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips on watching the final stage? I'm not to fussed if I'm not by the finish as I don't really want to have to get there really early just so that I can see. Seeing the podium would be good but I saw an overhead shot of last year and it looked a bit busy.
> 
> ...



If you start feeling smug that you have a great position by the finish line, make sure you have got it right and you are before, not after, the finish. Otherwise you may miss something like this


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Sep 2017)

BalkanExpress said:


> If you start feeling smug that you have a great position by the finish line, make sure you have got it right and you are before, not after, the finish. Otherwise you may miss something like this



Chute alors!


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Sep 2017)

Two Ag2r riders out.
http://road.cc/content/news/228792-ag2r-la-mondiale-withdraws-riders-vuelta-after-team-car-tow


----------



## hoopdriver (5 Sep 2017)

Where does one begin? You'd think this was Wacky Races. How utterly childish and moronic. And one of the guys says he made "a mistake"? Alas I fear that the mistake he feels he made was in being filmed doing it, not the stupid bit of cheating itself.


----------



## Beebo (5 Sep 2017)

time trials are very boring to watch!
But Froome blasted that one.


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2017)

I wasn't necessarily expecting him to beat Kelderman.


----------



## Stonechat (5 Sep 2017)

Pity about Rohan Dennis being out too


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2017)

So far, so predictable.
let's hope someone other than Bert or Lopez has a go at Froome tomorrow.


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2017)

Will anyone be doing this?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 Sep 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Two Ag2r riders out.
> http://road.cc/content/news/228792-ag2r-la-mondiale-withdraws-riders-vuelta-after-team-car-tow


and too bleeding right !


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2017)

Wout Poels finished 7th in the TT yesterday. Was this a statement of confidence and form, or a misguided waste of effort, with respect to the work that he will have to do in the next few days?


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2017)

He feels fitter and it was only 40 km when all's said and done. I think he'll be fine. The other GCers will have put an equally hard effort in.
He might also be making a statement for future GC ambitions, either with or without Sky. Next year's Giro?


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Sep 2017)

He seems to have rode himself fitter,maybe sky.have said you can push yourself a bit ! Still 4 hard enough stages to go.


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2017)

TV coverage starts at 11.30am today


----------



## Bonefish Blues (6 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> It's that mental vertical concrete road tomorrow isn't it.
> 
> Alto de los Machucos. I might come out of my Vuelta apathy and watch that.
> View attachment 371941


Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit of a joke?


----------



## MikeG (6 Sep 2017)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit of a joke?



I've walked up it. It's no joke.


----------



## sleaver (6 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Wout Poels finished 7th in the TT yesterday. Was this a statement of confidence and form, or a misguided waste of effort, with respect to the work that he will have to do in the next few days?


Now that he has moved up on GC, could Sky send him up the road forcing the other teams to chase to protect their positions? Thereby giving Sky a bit of a rest.

Disclaimer - I may not know what the hell I'm talking about


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2017)

According to the Vuelta's timetable they expect the riders to take about 12 minutes to do the final climb, so we can't really expect race changing gaps.


----------



## sleaver (6 Sep 2017)

Sorry if its been posted before - http://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/spain/6934-los-machucos.html

Also, its apparently raining at the finish.


View: https://twitter.com/laura_meseguer/status/905344600956702721


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Sep 2017)

Not watching live so will have to wait till highlights,but I would of thought maybe rain would suit Nibali.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> According to the Vuelta's timetable they expect the riders to take about 12 minutes to do the final climb, so we can't really expect race changing gaps.



WTF? It's 7km long - I'd consider myself to be doing well to cover that distance in 12 minutes on the flat.

Mind you, the gradient is very variable, apparently, so even with the really steep bits, it's only* 8% average overall.

*_only_ 8%!


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2017)

What happened to Majka? Mechanical or tumble?


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2017)

This is vicious


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2017)

I don't think Angliru will suit Froome either. Does he have enough time to hold on.


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> I don't think Angliru will suit Froome either. Does he have enough time to hold on.


----------



## Beebo (6 Sep 2017)

It is twice as long so will give him more time to pace back when he is dropped. But he could also lose twice as much time?
Either way it will make for a good Saturday afternoon's TV.


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2017)

It could end up being interesting!


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Sep 2017)

Have the route organisers actually been total geniuses?


----------



## Stonechat (6 Sep 2017)

Remember Froome has done well on Angliru before

The longer the effort the more it suits I think


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2017)

rich p said:


> It could end up being interesting!



Wake me up if it does.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2017)

So, Froome paid the price for his efforts on the TT, but even with today's losses he has a net gain of 15 seconds over Nibali on the last two stages.

With a couple of relatively easy days to recover before Saturday, I can't see anyone taking enough time out of him on Angliru to knock him off the top spot.


----------



## 400bhp (6 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> So, Froome paid the price for his efforts on the TT, but even with today's losses he has a net gain of 15 seconds over Nibali on the last two stages.
> 
> With a couple of relatively easy days to recover before Saturday, I can't see anyone taking enough time out of him on Angliru to knock him off the top spot.


No, I think he doesn't like the wet and cold, which we've seen before but forgot about (well I did).

To suggest he paid for his efforts yesterday would then mean none of his rivals went as hard.

I think Nibali is having a great race. Essentially the last two mountain stages, Froome had wheel sucked his teammates and Nibali has attacked. The first mountain was in vain but it paid off today.

Froome will still win but there's a chunk of light for Nibali.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2017)

400bhp said:


> No, I think he doesn't like the wet and cold, which we've seen before but forgot about (well I did).



I'm only quoting his own words:



> “I’m sure I paid a little bit for [Tuesday’s] effort, that’s clear,” Froome told reporters.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-pays-a-price-for-vuelta-a-espana-time-trial-success-1/

Of course, he may be bluffing, and there may be other reasons for his apparent difficulty today, but I'm taking his words at face value.

He looked to me like someone measuring his efforts today, rather than someone who was really on the limit. I'm sure he won't be happy about losing the time, but on the other hand, he knew he had enough of a lead overall that he didn't need to risk blowing up by recklessly chasing down the attacks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him seal it with a stage win on Saturday.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Sep 2017)

Or could it be that he's actually human and suffered yesterday.For a rider who's just won the Tour then come to this vuelta he looks pretty good to me.Those who think the Vuelta is boring....still ? it's been full on every day ! 
Contador has been great for the race,felt for him yesterday.Nibali has been on top form and deserves to be where he is.But someone mentioned 'wheelsucking' sky are the team to beat.Its a team sport that is easily lost on just focusing on the GC riders.Moscon,Nieve both had a great vuelta,like them or not they know how to play the game.I can't see Froome not winning this.Hed be a deserving winner


----------



## Doseone (7 Sep 2017)

There's a rumour Froome may be unwell. If that is the case, and Nibali and Contador decide to work together it could get really tight. There's opportunities before Angliru too.


----------



## Twizit (7 Sep 2017)

Doseone said:


> There's a rumour Froome may be unwell. If that is the case, and Nibali and Contador decide to work together it could get really tight. There's opportunities before Angliru too.


Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case (Froome being ill). Have just caught up on the ITV highlights from last night and in the interview Froome seemed very cagey to me and gave the same stock answer three times. Not usually his style. I reckon the next few days could be really interesting and don't think Froome is still as nailed on as some think for the win.


----------



## hoopdriver (7 Sep 2017)

Indeed! I don't think he's nailed on at all...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> He looked to me like someone measuring his efforts today, rather than someone who was really on the limit. I'm sure he won't be happy about losing the time, but on the other hand, he knew he had enough of a lead overall that he didn't need to risk blowing up by recklessly chasing down the attacks.


I know it can be hard to tell with Froome's riding style but I was struck how he spent so much time fighting his bike yesterday. I hope it was just a poor day but I saw little that looked measured.


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2017)

Doseone said:


> There's a rumour Froome may be unwell. If that is the case, and Nibali and Contador decide to work together it could get really tight. There's opportunities before Angliru too.


Could be. A bunch of riders and most of Dimension Data have been struck down with a gastro bug and retired. I did wonder about that and I reckon this race is his Nemesis.


----------



## sleaver (7 Sep 2017)

Doseone said:


> There's a rumour Froome may be unwell. If that is the case, and Nibali and Contador decide to work together it could get really tight. There's opportunities before Angliru too.


I think it was at the beginning of the highlights last night, they commented on all the fist bumping Froome was doing after the TT. Its known they do that to help avoid riders getting ill but the commentators also said that they are trying to stop the spread of germs.

I thought nothing of it at the time, but then after the stage highlights finished, I did think back to it and started to wonder if he is ill.


----------



## Beebo (7 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> I think it was at the beginning of the highlights last night, they commented on all the fist bumping Froome was doing after the TT. Its known they do that to help avoid riders getting ill but the commentators also said that they are trying to stop the spread of germs.
> 
> I thought nothing of it at the time, but then after the stage highlights finished, I did think back to it and started to wonder if he is ill.


Team Sky are very hot on this. They even have separate washing machines for each team member to limit cross contamination.


----------



## Beebo (7 Sep 2017)

Froome looked good at the end.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (7 Sep 2017)

I think that proves Froome isn't ill.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (7 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> Team Sky are very hot on this. They even have *separate washing machines* for each team member to limit cross contamination.


Go on, I'll bite - surely not?


----------



## Beebo (7 Sep 2017)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Go on, I'll bite - surely not?


 
Have a read of this. It could be BS. 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-s...y-as-he-homes-in-on-fourth-tour-de-france-win


----------



## brommers (7 Sep 2017)

Felt a bit sorry for Aru - all that effort for just a few seconds.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Sep 2017)

So Froome just can't handle really, really steep stuff? I guess Sky will work on this like they did on his descending.


----------



## brommers (7 Sep 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> So Froome just can't handle really, really steep stuff? I guess Sky will work on this like they did on his descending.


I don't think it's so much the steepness, more the changes in gradients which upset his rhythm.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (7 Sep 2017)

I thought washing clothes well, you know, sort of cleaned them by using chemicals n stuff. How wrong I was!


----------



## rich p (7 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Felt a bit sorry for Aru - all that effort for just a few seconds.


Nah, his style is so ugly I can't feel anything for him/
Dirty Bertie, on the other hand...


----------



## mjr (7 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't think it's so much the steepness, more the changes in gradients which upset his rhythm.


I thought it was the cold and wet?


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> I don't think it's so much the steepness, more the changes in gradients which upset his rhythm.


I just think it's being human and knackered,winning the tour and straight into the Vuelta.It's been full on aswell.He looked good today,sky rode a good stage today,made it easier for Froome to attack at the close.Brave ride by Aru,I almost felt sorry for him.


----------



## 400bhp (7 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> Team Sky are very hot on this. They even have separate washing machines for each team member to limit cross contamination.



Urban myth?


----------



## Beebo (7 Sep 2017)

400bhp said:


> Urban myth?


It could be BS but I have read it in more than one place. 
They probably have a couple of machines and do a number of individual wash cycles. 
I also expect that have more than one set of kit per rider so don't need to do daily washing.


----------



## brommers (8 Sep 2017)

Surely Sky wouldn't be able to afford more than one kit per rider?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Sep 2017)

Rounder drums in their washing machines?


----------



## brommers (8 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Nah, they have oval ones. Do keep up.


That's only Froomes' one.


----------



## uncle_adolph (8 Sep 2017)

Doseone said:


> There's a rumour Froome may be unwell. If that is the case, and Nibali and Contador decide to work together it could get really tight. There's opportunities before Angliru too.



Was that the rumour that someone started because Froome was seen coughing as he got off his bike after both the TT and the following stage? Jesus.....I must be ill every day, then.....


----------



## mjr (8 Sep 2017)

uncle_adolph said:


> Was that the rumour that someone started because Froome was seen coughing as he got off his bike after both the TT and the following stage? Jesus.....I must be ill every day, then.....


Probably. They've never seen an asthmatic after a ride on the limit, then?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Sep 2017)

mjr said:


> Probably. They've never seen an asthmatic after a ride on the limit, then?


His dry cough is pretty standard for him after a hard day's riding.


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Sep 2017)

After each stage Froome has looked remarkably fresh.Wearing the red jersey brings its own pressures,which he copes remarkably well with.Bit of a cough..most would be on their knees.Hes not I'll,he's bang on form !


----------



## mjr (8 Sep 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> His dry cough is pretty standard for him after a hard day's riding.


Yeah, it's been noticeable that he seems to do the Vuelta interviews after he's done rasping. I heard an interview with Michael Woods after the TT where he seemed to have a similar cough: do we know whether he's asthmatic or not?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Sep 2017)

mjr said:


> Yeah, it's been noticeable that he seems to do the Vuelta interviews after he's done rasping. I heard an interview with Michael Woods after the TT where he seemed to have a similar cough: do we know whether he's asthmatic or not?


I don't know the answer but running middle-distance throughout a Quebec winter could make him a strong candidate for exercise induced asthma.


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Sep 2017)

Is there not some connection with certain sports ? I seem to remember swimmers as well as cyclists have a high proportion of asthma sufferers.There again doing 6/8 hours a day training.Then riding two grand tours back to back at full gas....I think most would get a 'tickly cough' .....it's some strain on your lungs.


----------



## smutchin (8 Sep 2017)

Now That's What I Call A Proper Breakaway Gap.


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Sep 2017)

Especially with that amount of riders.


----------



## Beebo (8 Sep 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Is there not some connection with certain sports ? I seem to remember swimmers as well as cyclists have a high proportion of asthma sufferers.There again doing 6/8 hours a day training.Then riding two grand tours back to back at full gas....I think most would get a 'tickly cough' .....it's some strain on your lungs.


It tends to be indurance athletes who suffer as they put pressure on their lungs. 
I guess swimmers breathe deep and hold their breath unlike any other sports, plus they have chlorine to irritate the lungs. 
I developed exercise inducted asthma whilst training for a marathon so even unfit chumps like me can suffer.


----------



## brommers (8 Sep 2017)

Congratulations to Thomas de Gendt who now has the full set - stage wins in all 3 Grand Tours.


----------



## MikeG (8 Sep 2017)

My daughter lives just outside Gijon. Her boyfriend is a keen cyclist. They won't be watching the climb up Angliru tomorrow, because, unbelievably, a huge local derby football match is on the same afternoon! Gijon vs someone or other. It hasn't actually been played for 15 years. There is therefore a chance that the crowds will be a deal smaller than might have been expected. Her boyfriend says that after the first 15 or 20 riders, the crowd will help push the rest up the hill!


----------



## SWSteve (8 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Congratulations to Thomas de Gendt who now has the full set - stage wins in all 3 Grand Tours.



He needs tomorrow to get he set of the big mountains though


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Congratulations to Thomas de Gendt who now has the full set - stage wins in all 3 Grand Tours.


Can't believe nobody had him for a stage win today ! Or did they ?


----------



## HF2300 (8 Sep 2017)

User3094 said:


> .... now can he PLEASE have that knighthood?



No.


----------



## rich p (8 Sep 2017)

So it's come down to a shoot out on the Angliru.
I doubt anyone can take a minute off Froomedawg but it's not impossible if he cracks.


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> He needs tomorrow to get he set of the big mountains though


He only went halfway up Mont Ventoux


----------



## Levo-Lon (9 Sep 2017)

so will Mr Froome be considered as a "one of the greats" if he wins this and the TDF in the same season?
He's certainly having a hell of a good season...and the last few seasons have been very impressive. he does have a brilliant team around him after all.

what else would he need to do to be a cycling legend in years to come?


----------



## themosquitoking (9 Sep 2017)

meta lon said:


> so will Mr Froome be considered as a "one of the greats" if he wins this and the TDF in the same season?
> He's certainly having a hell of a good season...and the last few seasons have been very impressive. he does have a brilliant team around him after all.
> 
> what else would he need to do to be a cycling legend in years to come?


Enter and win a lot more races in general, some one day races in bad weather and the rainbow stripes. That would make him a lot closer to being a legend.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Sep 2017)

If he wins this stage and takes the Vuelta I think it would be hard to argue he's not one of the 'greats'.
No rider has achieved this since the race was extended to three weeks and moved to its current place on the calendar, less than four weeks after the Tour.Only two riders in have won the Tour de France and the Vuelta in the same year: Jacques Anquetil and Bernard Hinault.So it's some achievement on its own.
I don't think we're ever going to see Froome at many one day races,he's more tuned to the endurance of the grand tours and being a team rider.
Anyway hope it's a victory parade for him tomorrow as I'm off to Madrid in the morning.


----------



## sleaver (9 Sep 2017)

May be a long shot, but does anyone know where (most likely online) I could watch highlights of today's stage as I'll be in Madrid later?


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> May be a long shot, but does anyone know where (most likely online) I could watch highlights of today's stage as I'll be in Madrid later?


YouTube?
Letour.com?


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> May be a long shot, but does anyone know where (most likely online) I could watch highlights of today's stage as I'll be in Madrid later?


Madrid?


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

meta lon said:


> what else would he need to do to be a cycling legend in years to come?


Nothing


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2017)

meta lon said:


> so will Mr Froome be considered as a "one of the greats" if he wins this and the TDF in the same season?
> He's certainly having a hell of a good season...and the last few seasons have been very impressive. he does have a brilliant team around him after all.
> 
> what else would he need to do to be a cycling legend in years to come?



Win in roubaix


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> He only went halfway up Mont Ventoux



So did everyone else, but he crossed the line first


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Watching Eurosport pre start report and the weather looks awful.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2017)

My eurosport player is not letting me in. Grr


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Blimey, the weather looks grim. I would hate to be descending anything in this.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

I'm going to predict that Nibali is going to over do it on a descent and come off.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> My eurosport player is not letting me in. Grr


They just mentioned that the player was down but is now back up and running.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> They just mentioned that the player was down but is now back up and running.


Ah, thanks. I was wondering what had been happening but I got back in about 30 mins ago.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Looks like it will be all back together by the time they hit the last climb.
Then all hell will break lose.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2017)

That's Nibali's off hopefully over and done with.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm going to predict that Nibali is going to over do it on a descent and come off.



and the lottery numbers for tonight are.............


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm going to predict that Nibali is going to over do it on a descent and come off.



Moments after I read this post, Kirby started jabbering Nibali hitting the deck.

Looks like he's unhurt though, fortunately. And no one fancies pushing the pace on this descent to drop him.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Nibbles has fallen off, the peleton have slowed up for him.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Moments after I read this post, Kirby started jabbering Nibali hitting the deck.
> 
> Looks like he's unhurt though, fortunately. And no one fancies pushing the pace on this descent to drop him.



Hopefully it will curb his enthusiasm and therefore Froome won't have to risk it to keep up with him.


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> the peleton have slowed up for him.



Nah, I think they're all petrified of coming off themselves.

De la Cruz is the latest to go down. There will be more, I'm sure.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Going down like flies.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

This is the last decent, all up hill from here!


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

Has Contador had an off too?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Has Contador had an off too?



I hope so, I'm fed up of the Contador love in. (I don't want him to be hurt, but far enough back to not win the stage will do)


----------



## HF2300 (9 Sep 2017)

Commentators are saying Contador is behind but timings and group numbers say he's ahead.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Has Contador had an off too?


Apparently he is up the front, not behind.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Bloody commentators are really really awful.


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I hope so, I'm fed up of the Contador love in. (I don't want him to be hurt, but far enough back to not win the stage will do)



Turns out he's actually ahead of the Froome group, not behind it, as they were saying a few moments ago.

Sorry!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Turns out he's actually ahead of the Froome group, not behind it, as they were saying a few moments ago.
> 
> Sorry!



I know. Explains why Sunweb are pushing the peleton along


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

Bertie is flying!


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Bertie hits the front with 8km to go.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> Bertie hits the front with 8km to go.



He'll crack


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

This would be some way to bow out if he can pull it off.

Still a long way to go though...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Sep 2017)

Go Bertie, ya big doping nobber!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> This would be some way to bow out if he can pull it off.
> 
> Still a long way to go though...



He's looking good for it.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

What did Bertie have for dinner last night?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Unbelievable ride by him


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Nibali has cracked.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Getting very close


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Froome never looked under pressure at any point.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Sep 2017)

Brilliant by Froome. I don't trust Contador's performance, but assuming he has done it clean then well done to him.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> Turns out he's actually ahead of the Froome group, not behind it, as they were saying a few moments ago.



So why did you listen to the commentators...


----------



## blazed (9 Sep 2017)

Was enjoying it until I realised Froome/Sky were not going to properly attack. They clearly allowed Contador that victory, both Froome and Poels looked comfortable and accelerated at ease in that fake attack. 

Sure, it's Contadors last GT but so what, if you can win then win. Why is cycling so shady like that? It wouldn't happen in other sports.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Sep 2017)

Deserved stage winner and race winner.Only one blip from Froome in three weeks..Looking forward to Madrid tomorrow,although from the company I'm going with it might be more alcohol than bike.


----------



## Venod (9 Sep 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Deserved stage winner



Agreed, I can't remember which thread it was in but someone on here called him a wheel sucker.


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Deserved stage winner and race winner.Only one blip from Froome in three weeks..Looking forward to Madrid tomorrow,although from the company I'm going with it might be more alcohol than bike.[/QUOT


Are you riding along with Team Sky then?


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

I'm not quite sure, but I think that if Trentin wants the Green Jersey back tomorrow, he will need to score points in the intermediate sprint and win the stage and hope that Froome doesn't finish in the top 15. Expect Quick-Step Floors to control the peloton tomorrow.


----------



## StuAff (9 Sep 2017)

meta lon said:


> so will Mr Froome be considered as a "one of the greats" if he wins this and the TDF in the same season?
> He's certainly having a hell of a good season...and the last few seasons have been very impressive. he does have a brilliant team around him after all.
> 
> what else would he need to do to be a cycling legend in years to come?


By rights, absolutely nothing. Five grand tour wins- and by any reasonable standard one win is legendary- and TDF KOM, plus whatever he might win in future. No, he hasn't won a spring classic or another big one-dayer, but I doubt he cares right now, and why should he? If he wants to have a go at Other Things he will. Many greats of the past entered more and won more races, but even with the obvious, doping, aside, racing has changed, for better or worse. Winning two GTs in one year is a very select club indeed. Never mind cheap digs about him being a plastic Brit etc…he's an all time great.


----------



## StuAff (9 Sep 2017)

And another thing…legends don't necessarily have to win things.

Adam Hansen. 19 consecutive grand tours. And assuming he completes tomorrow, 19 consecutive finishes.


----------



## Pale Rider (9 Sep 2017)

Is there a realistic prospect of Froome - or some other world class rider - winning all three European grand tours?

As an armchair spectator with little knowledge, it seems an obvious 'grand slam' to me.

I may have read somewhere the Giro and Tour de France are too close together for even a supremely fit cyclist to win both.


----------



## StuAff (9 Sep 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Is there a realistic prospect of Froome - or some other world class rider - winning all three European grand tours?
> 
> As an armchair spectator with little knowledge, it seems an obvious 'grand slam' to me.
> 
> I may have read somewhere the Giro and Tour de France are too close together for even a supremely fit cyclist to win both.


Merckx never managed it. Only two riders have ever managed top ten finishes in all three in the same year.
In two words, Im Possible, it would seem.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Sep 2017)

http://au.eurosport.com/cycling/vue...e-greatest-of-all-time_sto6327328/story.shtml


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2017)

Afnug said:


> Agreed, I can't remember which thread it was in but someone on here called him a wheel sucker.



Did they have him confused with Zakarin?


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Is there a realistic prospect of Froome - or some other world class rider - winning all three European grand tours?
> 
> As an armchair spectator with little knowledge, it seems an obvious 'grand slam' to me.
> 
> I may have read somewhere the Giro and Tour de France are too close together for even a supremely fit cyclist to win both.



The riders in the vuelta look cooked because they Did the tour, if you try the Giro-Tour double, you run the risk of being cooked come the end, and competing with riders whose whole year revolves around the tour, so you slide away - look at Quintana this year. Because of this, a grand slam would be insanely hard in a calendar year, a twelve month period however....


----------



## 400bhp (9 Sep 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Is there a realistic prospect of Froome - or some other world class rider - winning all three European grand tours?
> 
> As an armchair spectator with little knowledge, it seems an obvious 'grand slam' to me.
> 
> I may have read somewhere the Giro and Tour de France are too close together for even a supremely fit cyclist to win both.



Are there grand tours outside Europe?

It's unrealistic to win all three grand tours in one year in their present format.

Froome has a lot to thank his teammates for this year. He wouldn't have been able to do what he did in any other team, bar perhaps Movistar. That's not to take anything away from him. He is head and shoulders above everyone else he has raced this year. Do to have any chance of winning all three in a calendar year would mean having a massive squad of riders all willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

However, I believe Dumoulin might be the best there is out there currently.

It'll be good to see those go head to head in then world TT champs. I really hope this happens.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Sep 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> The riders in the vuelta look cooked because they Did the tour, if you try the Giro-Tour double, you run the risk of being cooked come the end, and competing with riders whose whole year revolves around the tour, so you slide away - look at Quintana this year. Because of this, a grand slam would be insanely hard in a calendar year, a twelve month period however....



12 month period is a good point.

I wonder if they could put the Tour back a week and the Vuelta back a week too, so that there's more of a chance riders can genuinely go for a double in the year?


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Is there a realistic prospect of Froome - or some other world class rider - winning all three European grand tours?
> 
> As an armchair spectator with little knowledge, it seems an obvious 'grand slam' to me.
> 
> I may have read somewhere the Giro and Tour de France are too close together for even a supremely fit cyclist to win both.


Froome's big goal is 5 Tours de France, so he wouldn't jeopardise that next year by doing the Giro.


----------



## uncle_adolph (9 Sep 2017)

Having just started watching Strictly I now see where Fabio Aru buggered off to....


----------



## 400bhp (9 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Froome's big goal is 5 Tours de France, so he wouldn't jeopardise that next year by doing the Giro.



Froome's or Sky's?

By the way I'm not asking you to answer that, more rhetorical.


----------



## User169 (9 Sep 2017)

Sigh...


----------



## User169 (9 Sep 2017)

DP said:


> Sigh...
> 
> View attachment 372604



Bollocks. Wrong thread. Sorry all..


----------



## smutchin (9 Sep 2017)

DP said:


> Bollocks. Wrong thread. Sorry all..



I assumed it was meant to be a pithy comment on... something or other.


----------



## Beebo (9 Sep 2017)

Didn't one if the big team owners try to get a million dollar grand slam prize, but to make it fair it required all GC contenders to ride in all 3 races, and no one wanted to do it.
Or did i imagine it?


----------



## gavroche (9 Sep 2017)

Congratulations to Contador for winning such a hard stage today. I am always amazed when I see riders going up mountains at high speed and then, within 1 second , they are completely spent and are reduced to crawling. I know how they feel but it must be terrifying for them, knowing they still have miles to go. As for Contador, despite some of his past, he is still a great champion.


----------



## sleaver (9 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Froome's big goal is 5 Tours de France, so he wouldn't jeopardise that next year by doing the Giro.


Or he could show Quintana how it's done  Considering it was Quintana who (or Movistar) said before the Giro that he was going for the double and won, erm, neither.

I wonder how long it will be before the Giro organise a route that suits Froome to try and tempt him.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> Didn't one if the big team owners try to get a million dollar grand slam prize, but to make it fair it required all GC contenders to ride in all 3 races, and no one wanted to do it.
> Or did i imagine it?


Oleg Tinkof offered it.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (9 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> Congratulations to Contador for winning such a hard stage today. I am always amazed when I see riders going up mountains at high speed and then, within 1 second , they are completely spent and are reduced to crawling. I know how they feel but it must be terrifying for them, knowing they still have miles to go. As for Contador, despite some of his past, he is still a great champion.



I know they'd ridden a reasonable distance previously, & had already been climbing, but out of curiosity, I timed Contadors last 5K. & I got 21:59
Quite a decent time for a ParkRun...............


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just watching the highlights and it dawns on me that this might be the last time I see that Alpecin advert on the bus.
> 
> Distraught.


Fear not.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T0sWvbrT1uo


----------



## brommers (9 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> I wonder how long it will be before the Giro organise a route that suits Froome to try and tempt him.


In what way don't the routes suits Froome?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> Congratulations to Contador for winning such a hard stage today. I am always amazed when I see riders going up mountains at high speed and then, within 1 second , they are completely spent and are reduced to crawling. I know how they feel but it must be terrifying for them, knowing they still have miles to go. As for Contador, despite some of his past, he is still a great champion.


He's a great big doping nobber. I still like him in a "look at this clown, he doped to f*ck, trying to convince everyone he didn't" kind of way.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2017)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I know they'd ridden a reasonable distance previously, & had already been climbing, but out of curiosity, I timed Contadors last 5K. & I got 21:59
> Quite a decent time for a ParkRun...............



My PB is 1:39 ahead so im better than him, right?


----------



## sleaver (9 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> In what way don't the routes suits Froome?


I was going to say the ITT but then the The Tour this year didn't have as many ITT km's as in the past. 

I rever you back to my earlier disclaimer about possibly not knowing what I am on about


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just watching the highlights and it dawns on me that this might be the last time I see that Alpecin advert on the bus.
> 
> Distraught.



I recorded the stage and watched it on intermittent fast forward.
At times, I was in a dilemma as to whether to FF the Alpecin advert or that utter farking dahlia daffodil Carlton farking Kirby.


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Sep 2017)

We're still not sure if the Alpecin bloke says 'do it for your wives' (which is a bit iffy) or we're hearing it wrong.
Otherwise, great end to the race, ok he's a cheating so and so but I can't begrudge Bertie that win.


----------



## Albrey (9 Sep 2017)

Is it just me, or did Eurosport manage to miss off the last 1.5km of the 'on demand' coverage... it just ends with 1.5km to go... 

So I end up finding out that Contador wins it, while farting around finding alternative coverage. Hey ho.

"you have one job to do" springs to mind...

I'm delighted Froome won his Vuelta, less delighted at Sky dominating two tours.. though fair play to them for, err, being the best.


----------



## Beebo (10 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> He says "Not only for you, also for your wives"
> 
> But moving on to less important things than the Alpecin ad...
> 
> ...


He also said the fans are much more respectful in Spain than the tdf fans. 
This won't help him make friends in future rides up the Alps. 
The Spanish police do seem to be far more pro active at keeping the fans away from the riders.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (10 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> He also said the fans are much more respectful in Spain than the tdf fans.
> *This won't help him make friends in future rides up the Alps. *
> The Spanish police do seem to be far more pro active at keeping the fans away from the riders.


Cause, lost etc...


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## rich p (10 Sep 2017)

Wasn't it pleasing to see that old doper Pellizotti whizzing up the mountain to finish 5th at the grand age of 39.
Hope for us all...


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## SpokeyDokey (10 Sep 2017)

Surely it must be Sir Froome and SPOTY this time around?


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## sleaver (10 Sep 2017)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Surely it must be Sir Froome and SPOTY this time around?


I was thinking about SPOTY a while ago.

If the BBC put Andy Murray on the list, he will probably still win even though he has done nothing this year compared to the previous two. 

In other words, the person who is known the most normally wins and though the vast amount of cycling coverage the BBC has, Froome will, well, probably lose out.


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## smutchin (10 Sep 2017)

Oh, time for the annual SPOTY discussion, is it?

*unsubscribe*


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## rich p (10 Sep 2017)

Maybe some kind soul will start a SPOTY thread so the rest of us can ignore it more easily


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## brommers (10 Sep 2017)

Last one then I'll shut up. Jimmy Anderson is probably the only other real contender.


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## sleaver (10 Sep 2017)

Just walking around and just came across this random cycling event in Madrid.

Hopefully, considering where I am standing, that is the podium.







Got a free cap as well


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## sleaver (10 Sep 2017)

Newsflash....

Been here about 30-40 minutes and they still have roughly 30km before they get here. The woes of trying to get a good spot #bored #fedupofspoty

Can't understand a word being said I've the PA either


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Sep 2017)

Green Jersey for Froome  and the combined and obviously the GC


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## sleaver (10 Sep 2017)

It's at the back of the podium but I'll take it


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## deptfordmarmoset (10 Sep 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Green Jersey for Froome  and the combined and obviously the GC


Impressive but perhaps a little reckless to be mixing it with the final sprint.


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## brommers (10 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> It's at the back of the podium but I'll take it
> 
> View attachment 372813


Great photo


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## brommers (10 Sep 2017)

Typical Froome - wasn't going to let the points jersey go.


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## brommers (10 Sep 2017)

Bertie lost 4th place to Wilco


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Sep 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Impressive but perhaps a little reckless to be mixing it with the final sprint.



Nah, that's what makes him such a great champion.


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## sleaver (10 Sep 2017)

Well, my first experience of being at a Grand Tour was worth it especially due to the nature of the course, I got to see them twice every lap.

Then when the course was clear, people started going to the podium so I though I would to and ended up only about 3 people back at the rear. Considering all the photographers at the front, you probably got closer and had a better view at the rear. 

I know the history with Contador but being British in a crowd full of Spanish chattering "Alberto" was quite surreal. They went mad when he started taking a video on his phone. 

Glad Froome one it, not only because he's come so close before but because he spoke English and I could understand something 

The podium was a bit empty when they had the four jersey winners and there was only two riders. 

I decided to take the red jersey photos on my camera, but here is one of the green jersey from my phone. 







I may post the ones on my camera when I get home next weekend.


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## mjr (11 Sep 2017)

Beebo said:


> The Spanish police do seem to be far more pro active at keeping the fans away from the riders.


That's not really the police. That's the famously heavy Civil Guard, an old paramilitary force that lives in garrisons and still acts as Spain's highway police as well as rural police, border police, coastguard, UN peacekeepers and various other things. The police (national and municipal) mainly act in cities.


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## mjr (11 Sep 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Impressive but perhaps a little reckless to be mixing it with the final sprint.


Crashing over the line is still a win! Plus it'd get him out of Bergen. Maybe. Froome does seem to bounce more than many. Maybe it's the practice he had. U23 worlds TT on.


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## perplexed (11 Sep 2017)

sleaver said:


> It's at the back of the podium but I'll take it
> 
> View attachment 372813



I love the fact that some of my fellow Yorkshire fans were there and managed to hang a banner on that lovely building to welcome Froome into Madrid...

'ees 'ome!!!


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2017)

mjr said:


> Plus it'd get him out of Bergen.



Or maybe it was practice for the inevitable sprint finish against Sagan and GVA?

(Yes, ok, I expect he's focusing on the TT rather than the road race, but I'd love to see him go for it.)


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## Adam4868 (11 Sep 2017)

Good night in Madrid,suffering at the airport now with a six hour delay on Ryanair !!


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## rich p (11 Sep 2017)

I really don't know what to make of that race. It was a slow burner and lacked any real drama of a credible challenge to Froome though a few looked like they might.
Sky were dominant despite my reservations about their personnel. Moscon was a revelation and Poels and Nieve did a great job. I'm surprised they haven't offered Nieve a big bonus to stay on for another year.
Kelderman, Zakarin, Chaves, Nibali and Lopez all had their moments but Bertie stole the show.
Aru and the Yates brothers were a big disappointment.
I assumed Bardet would be a player too but he clearly was only targeting stage wins from the start. 
Barguil is obviously a bit of a loose canon. He took my selection of him as the punditry wildcard a bit too literally.


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## Adam4868 (11 Sep 2017)

rich p said:


> I really don't know what to make of that race. It was a slow burner and lacked any real drama of a credible challenge to Froome though a few looked like they might.
> Sky were dominant despite my reservations about their personnel. Moscon was a revelation and Poels and Nieve did a great job. I'm surprised they haven't offered Nieve a big bonus to stay on for another year.
> Kelderman, Zakarin, Chaves, Nibali and Lopez all had their moments but Bertie stole the show.
> Aru and the Yates brothers were a big disappointment.


I enjoyed it,the Vuelta as a end of season race feels a bit more relaxed(probably not the right word !) It gives the opportunity for more attacking racing that's for sure.Not as many sprint stages and plenty of mountains.Nibali had a great race I think,he always looks dangerous.But not taking anything away from Froome he's been outstanding,In both the Tour and Vuelta he's probably had two off days.Barely puts a foot wrong and races for everything.To contest the sprint last night shows he's hungry for all.Trentin got four stages and still didn't get the green jersey ! Bit of a shame I think.A deserved champion.


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## KneesUp (11 Sep 2017)

If you'd won 4 x Tdf and 1 x Vuelta, but were nearer the end of your grand tour career than the start, would you target the Giro, so you could perhaps retire having won all three grand tours, and as a bonus would hold all three titles simultaneously for a while, or focus on another TdF to try and draw level with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault and Indurain?


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## Crackle (11 Sep 2017)

KneesUp said:


> If you'd won 4 x Tdf and 1 x Vuelta, but were nearer the end of your grand tour career than the start, would you target the Giro, so you could perhaps retire having won all three grand tours, and as a bonus would hold all three titles simultaneously for a while, or focus on another TdF to try and draw level with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault and Indurain?


Tricky one. I think he'd like to win six but he knows he'll be up against it. Definitely one more tour as a priority and then the Giro tour double the year after. Winning all three GT's and five tours would lift him to one of the all time best GT riders but who knows how much time he has left. As we've seen with Contador this year, when your form goes, it goes quickly.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Sep 2017)

KneesUp said:


> If you'd won 4 x Tdf and 1 x Vuelta, but were nearer the end of your grand tour career than the start, would you target the Giro, so you could perhaps retire having won all three grand tours, and as a bonus would hold all three titles simultaneously for a while, or focus on another TdF to try and draw level with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault and Indurain?


Hinault reckons he should: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/sep/11/chris-froome-vuelta-espana-tour-de-france-double


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## Bonefish Blues (11 Sep 2017)

Good article


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## Aravis (11 Sep 2017)

Firstly, well done Froome.

It's perhaps worth noting that Hinault chose to make one of his rare visits to the Vuelta when presented with exactly the same opportunity - the consecutive grand slam, if you will. He was successful, and it very likely cost him his fifth Tour, at least for a while.

The one thing Froome's made completely clear is that at least one Giro - at some point - is a very high priority. Not everyone will agree, but the way I'd see it is that N+1+1 is better that (N+1)+1+0 or N+2+0. So on that basis, even without the three consecutive grand tours element, next year's Giro ought to be the number one objective.

Also, I'd imagine that the Giro organisation would absolutely love him to try it next year, so with a bit of discussion a Froome-friendly route should be forthcoming.


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## Adam4868 (11 Sep 2017)

I don't really think he has any weakness as such.We we're told it was his descending,now he's one of the best.Then it was whether he could stay upright....His biggest strength to me is his attitude/mental strength.Never panicks,stays in his own tempo,works as a team.He comes over as Mr nice,but as a racer he's as ruthless as the rest.Steep inclines as in tour and vuelta was a couple of hundred metres,which in the grand scale of the race he could afford it.Not taking anything away from his team,they were unbeatable.
Baring a crash there's not much


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## rliu (11 Sep 2017)

I think the toils of time and age are the only things Froome's opponents can rely on to stop him, and that can happen quite suddenly. Just look at Contador, he seemed impregnable around 2012-2015 and then the last two years he seemed to have a disastrous day without fail in the GTs and became a stage-win attacker rather than a dominant GC contender.
The likes of Dumoulin, Quintana, Bardet, Landa, Aru etc have the advantage on Froome of being a few years younger, so should have their fair crack at the whip


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## sleaver (11 Sep 2017)

Just saw one of Sky's videos on Facebook and they are saying that it has only been done three times in the past.

The past was when it was in the spring and only two weeks. So isn't it more of a feat in modern times?

Or is there just no way of comparing it when you bring in equipment, nutrition etc. Into the equation?

Edit - Just watched the video a bit further and they said the greater feat in modern times.


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## SWSteve (11 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Out of interest, what would people consider to be Froome friendly or otherwise?
> 
> His (or more strictly his and Sky's) only real weakness seems to be extremely steep sections late in big climbs, that don't give him time to winch himself back to the front (eg the airstrip at Peyragudes this year, or the bonkers Muchachos climb the other day). Big climbs and descents he is (along with his teammates) good enough to prevent attackers from getting away, and good enough to punish them if they blow up attacking. ITTs he's very good.
> 
> Horrible weather he doesn't seem to like - falling off and breaking his hand in the rain in 2014(?) maybe Muchachos again - but that's hardly under the control of the route designers. I suppose high passes in the Giro are never going to be balmy.




Jerusalem is hot, and he likes the heat


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## rich p (11 Sep 2017)

rliu said:


> he seemed impregnable around 2012-2015


Hardly impregnable. He hasn't won a TdF since 2009 and while a Giro and a couple of Vueltas is not to be sneezed at, he has never been the same since his doping ban.


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## Aravis (11 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> M. Hinault has the answer to that one in the link above:
> _“These are different eras, with different riders, different equipment and a different calendar. You should take each achievement for what it is and when it is.”_


Indeed. Looking from a modern perspective, it's pretty amazing to see that Giovanni Battaglin's Vuelta/Giro double in 1981 was achieved with a three day gap between them. I don't know much about the Vuelta that year, but the Giro was very competitive. It was one of Hinault's "out" years, so it was at least possible for someone else to win it.

Again, I don't know the full detail, but I think Anquetil's 1963 Vuelta was one of the shortest, if not the shortest, at 15 days and 17 stages, including two split days. Suggesting, as yesterday's highlights programme did, that the Vuelta used to be a two-week event may have been a bit of an exaggeration.

I think what I'm trying to say is that whilst the challenges are certainly different nowadays, there's no reason to believe they used to be easier.


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## Doseone (12 Sep 2017)

For me, surprises in the race were Kelderman, Zakarin, Woods, Moscon & Aqua Blue. Disappointments were the Yates twins, Bardet, Aru, and Chaves (because I really like him and was hoping he would do better!)

I'm sure there are others but can't think of them off the top of my head.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Sep 2017)

When Froome wins a stage race where the stages are all 300km plus, with many at over 400km, then Sky can come back to me with their fluffy pillows and ask me if I think he's done ok.


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## Adam4868 (12 Sep 2017)

Marmion said:


> When Froome wins a stage race where the stages are all 300km plus, with many at over 400lm, then Sky can come back to me with their fluffy pillows and ask me if I think he's done ok.


Sky set up everything to win the grand tours,and it shows as they have dominated them.Maybe they will set their sights on a few more classic/monument races as they could with the likes of Standard,Kwiatowski,Moscon ? As a outsiders point of view the grand tours are what people know(especially the tour) and the classic/monuments are for the armchair cycling fans.Quickstep springs to mind as a great classic team.But as a endurance athlete/cyclist for me Froome has shown he's the best.We ain't gonna see him in Roubaix any time soon,more chance of Brailsford riding it !


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## Buddfox (12 Sep 2017)

Marmion said:


> When Froome wins a stage race where the stages are all 300km plus, with many at over 400lm, then Sky can come back to me with their fluffy pillows and ask me if I think he's done ok.



I've heard this is number one on Dave Brailsford's to-do list.


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## 400bhp (13 Sep 2017)

Froome's weakness appears to be the cold and wet.

And perhaps his ability to ride with a weak team.

However, someof his key strengths is learning from his mistakes and improving his weaknesses. Ie, if a future GT had some flat cobbled Monument type stages in it then he would be ready for them.

It wouldn't surprise me that if Froome wanted to he could change tact to win some of the one dayers.

I think his personal ambitions have to be weighed alongside Sky's ambitions and that's why I don't believe Sky will let him do a Giro whilst he is still not on a downward path career wise.


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## brommers (13 Sep 2017)

400bhp said:


> However, someof his key strengths is learning from his mistakes and improving his weaknesses. Ie, if a future GT had some flat cobbled Monument type stages in it then he would be ready for them.


Apparently that's a possibility for next year's TdF.


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## nickyboy (13 Sep 2017)

brommers said:


> Apparently that's a possibility for next year's TdF.



TdF is so much bigger than all the other races from a sponsor's perspective I can't see Sky being happy with a situation where Froome rides the Giro and thus compromises his ability to win the Tour.

Froome riding the Vuelta having ridden the Tour is a no-risk option for them


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## Doseone (14 Sep 2017)

nickyboy said:


> TdF is so much bigger than all the other races from a sponsor's perspective I can't see Sky being happy with a situation where Froome rides the Giro and thus compromises his ability to with the Tour.
> 
> Froome riding the Vuelta having ridden the Tour is a no-risk option for them



I was wondering this too. From his personal point of view I would think he'd want to get a Giro win in the next couple of years before his powers start to wane, but as you point out this may not be in Sky's interest. Perhaps he'll have to change teams to have a crack at the Giro


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## sleaver (18 Sep 2017)

I'm back in the land of the freezing cold (compared to Spain ) UK and thought I would post these.


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