# No wonder..



## postman (5 May 2018)

No wonder motorists hate cyclists.This morning i took a bus ride to Otley,i had a little bit of shopping to do,and i needed to get back home early.So on Otley Road,the bus gets behind five cyclists.Not going fast and talking to each other.They are lined up two across two across behind and one single.But the trouble is the second pair,the outside rider is so far out it looks like three across.Now cars are between us,and they have trouble getting past,lots of traffic coming the otherway.Now the guy in the second pair on the outside looks over his shoulder looks at the driver,and then continues with his conversation with his mates,in my opinion he was out of order,it would not have harmed him or his mates to go single file,and let the bus pass.Nil points to a group of cycling dickheads.


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## Old jon (5 May 2018)

Never liked towing a tail of traffic, but that is just me, maybe.


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## snorri (5 May 2018)

You do wonder about all these cars, how many occupants? Was their journey really necessary? Could they have taken a bus? Or were they just out to endanger cyclists and delay other road users?


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## numbnuts (5 May 2018)

When I bought my trike I made a rule for myself “if there is three or more cars behind me who can't over take easily I will pull over ASAP” I get lots of thank you for doing this.


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## Dayvo (5 May 2018)

numbnuts said:


> When I bought my trike I made a rule for myself “if there is three or more cars behind me who can't over take easily I will pull over ASAP” I get lots of thank you for doing this.



Stay at home and everyone will thank you.


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## Slick (5 May 2018)

I had a similar experience a few weeks back when I came across the local riders. I was shocked by the bullying tactics drivers were using to try and intimidate them one blasting a particularly loud horn so much one of the girls took a wobble and turned in at the next layby. 

It wasn't particularly difficult to overtake them despite being 2 abreast, but you do need to plan your overtaking a bit better.


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## Dave7 (5 May 2018)

@postman
I am with you. On my rides I have seen groups of eg 15 cyclists bunched up and holding loads of traffic up.
IMO some cyclists think about what they are entitled to do as against what is best for others.


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## gavroche (5 May 2018)

snorri said:


> You do wonder about all these cars, how many occupants? Was their journey really necessary? Could they have taken a bus? Or were they just out to endanger cyclists and delay other road users?


Completely irrelevant to the OP's thread.


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## snorri (5 May 2018)

gavroche said:


> Completely irrelevant to the OP's thread.


I don't think so, if you had read the OP you would have realised there were two factors causing the delay in progress of the bus, cyclists in front and oncoming traffic preventing overtaking.
Why should anyone "hate" the cyclists whilst calmly accepting the presence of the oncoming drivers?


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## gavroche (5 May 2018)

Sorry but originally, it is the cyclists riding two a breast and not moving to a file that is causing the obstruction. Traffic coming the other way is not to blame. The OP also said that one rider is so far out that it is like 3 across. Surely, that is wrong.


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## smutchin (5 May 2018)

I found myself following a couple of cyclists this morning in the car for the best part of a mile. They were riding single file but it wasn't a wide road and I didn't think there was room to pass them safely, so I just waited behind them until I was sure I had room and there was nothing coming the other way. In the event, they turned off before I had a chance to overtake them.

I got to my destination in plenty of time. Society didn't crumble. The world kept on turning.


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## Accy cyclist (5 May 2018)

Who gives a toss! Some motorists had another minute or so put on their journey...big deal! I think it's dangerous for cyclists to side with motorists and say stuff like "No wonder they hate us" blah blah. If some normally sensible cyclists think it's ok for motorists to hate us then it makes you worry how much some dickhead motorists hate us! Hate us yes,but please do not go out looking for revenge,just because someone on a bike has upset you. Some motorists upset me,but i don't go looking for "revenge" with other motorists. This is how people get injured or even killed.


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## screenman (5 May 2018)

User said:


> All these people who struggle to overtake cyclists who are (legally) cycling two abreast should hand in their driving licenses, as they’re clearly not competent drivers. Overtaking cyclists cycling two abreast is no more difficult than overtaking a car.



What if as happened to me last week the third rider is the wrong side of the white line, as a very patient driver I just waited the 1/2 mile before I turned off.


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## Pat "5mph" (5 May 2018)

Well, imo, if it's impossible to overtake safely, a driver should not overtake.
Single file on a busy road with oncoming traffic will only result in close passes, in my experience.
Any cycling course I've been on teaches us to take primary or double up to be visible and to minimize the time it takes a car to overtake.
To pull in to let cars pass is a common courtesy that should not be at expense of our safety.
Personally, I am conscious that I am slow, so I avoid busy roads: but it should not be like that!
Even slow riders should be allowed to ride a busy road.
Because the current thinking is "motor vehicles must not be impeded", cyclist squash themselves to the kerb, get abused if they take the lane, are intimidated into unsuitable shared paths.
This, imo, is wrong and must change if cycling is to become a mainstream mode of transport.


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## snorri (5 May 2018)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but originally, it is the cyclists riding two a breast and not moving to a file that is causing the obstruction. Traffic coming the other way is not to blame. The OP also said that one rider is so far out that it is like 3 across. Surely, that is wrong.


Two abreast is permissible, the five cyclists moving into single file would not necessarily have helped the situation, as there was oncoming traffic preventing a safe overtake. You are right to say that oncoming traffic is not _to blame _, but by preventing overtaking, it was a _cause _of delay to the bus.
Pedestrians , cyclists and motor vehicle drivers just have to learn to share the road with patience, and without hatred for other users.


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## Andy_R (5 May 2018)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but originally, it is the cyclists riding two a breast and not moving to a file that is causing the obstruction. Traffic coming the other way is not to blame. The OP also said that one rider is so far out that it is like 3 across. Surely, that is wrong.


Just remind me what the highway code says about overtaking cyclists? Oh yes, leave as much room as you would for a car. Would you over take a car into oncoming traffic? So why do you think it's ok to overtake cyclists in such a manner, given their vulnerability to the environment around them (pot holes, gusts of wind, etc. etc)


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## screenman (5 May 2018)

I expect other vehicles to be on my side of the raod on blind bends in this fine county, for this reason I approach them with care, now sportive season is upon us it is not unusual to find a large group spread all the way across the road on said bends.

Some cyclists are idiot's, as are some of almost any group of people.


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## Bazzer (5 May 2018)

No different to being behind a tractor. Not all are JCB Fastracs or similar.
Other than in winter, a farmer about a mile away rides the local roads in a pony and trap, a couple of times day. Interestingly, drivers using the village as a cut through, seem to treat him and his horse with far more respect that the many cyclists who come this way.


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## NorthernDave (5 May 2018)

I know the road in question - parts of it are double white lined, and a significant number of drivers don't know the rules that apply to double white lines so will sit behind you fuming when they could easily and safely overtake...


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## mjr (5 May 2018)

postman said:


> No wonder motorists hate cyclists.This morning i took a bus ride to Otley,i had a little bit of shopping to do,and i needed to get back home early.So on Otley Road,the bus gets behind five cyclists. […]


OK, I'll bite: where exactly on Otley Road do you think it would be safe to overtake single file cyclists without moving into the next lane?


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## classic33 (5 May 2018)

mjr said:


> OK, I'll bite: where exactly on Otley Road do you think it would be safe to overtake single file cyclists without moving into the next lane?


It'd depend on which Otley Road. The A660, A65, A659 or A6038?


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## Pat "5mph" (5 May 2018)

@User9609 that's fine in a rural setting, but in an urban environment it would result for the cyclist to never get anywhere, or, worse, being forced off the road.


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## Welsh wheels (6 May 2018)

postman said:


> No wonder motorists hate cyclists.This morning i took a bus ride to Otley,i had a little bit of shopping to do,and i needed to get back home early.So on Otley Road,the bus gets behind five cyclists.Not going fast and talking to each other.They are lined up two across two across behind and one single.But the trouble is the second pair,the outside rider is so far out it looks like three across.Now cars are between us,and they have trouble getting past,lots of traffic coming the otherway.Now the guy in the second pair on the outside looks over his shoulder looks at the driver,and then continues with his conversation with his mates,in my opinion he was out of order,it would not have harmed him or his mates to go single file,and let the bus pass.Nil points to a group of cycling dickheads.


Disagree completely. Nothing wrong with cyclists riding side by side for a while to have a chat. We have as much right to use road space as the bus. In fact more considering we aren't belching out disease-causing diesel fumes. People these days need to chill out and slow down, it's not the end of the world if you are stuck behind a few cyclists for a while.


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## Illaveago (6 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5234916, member: 9609"]there's some funny buggers out there. I had a driver in a couple of weeks ago; had to follow a few cyclists for a couple of miles on a single track road, what is wrong with them? probably some of the best cycling roads any where in the UK, you can easily go 4 or 5 mile without seeing another vehicle, ride along enjoying the beauty of the place, listening to skyarks,Lapwings and curlews, but these halfwits, presumably in some show of "we're entitled", would rather ride along at 10 bastarding miles per hour with two 44 ton logging trucks up their jacksee's. - unbelievable, wtf is wrong with some of these clowns, just pull into the side for 30 seconds and let others get on with their day.[/QUOTE]
Can't do that. It would lower their average speed !


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## Lonestar (6 May 2018)

postman said:


> No wonder motorists hate cyclists.



I'm feeling the brunt of this...apart from a bloke at work having a go at me because cyclists don't use cycle lanes...(more than once a cycle related rant)
Now we just ignore each other but it's so childish...it all is.

Yesterday I got close passed by a BMW coming at we down a side street saw me and accelerated towards me before I had a chance to pull into the parked cars and I was on the fixie so it was a bit of a hairy moment There is no excuse for these sorts of behaviour and bullying but I'm afraid that's the way society is going if it isn't there already...This happened on the same road of which it happened two weeks ago Carnavon Road Stratford...don't think I've had any of these sort of punishment passes recently...probably because I held them up for two seconds....I don't answer for the way other cyclists behave and I feel I shouldn't be punished just because other cyclists can't be bothered to follow the road rules...I think motorists having a "hate" is a dangerous state of mind for other road users.

I don't have a "hate" for pedestrians just because they can be a pain in the posterior sometimes because my responsibility is to avoid them and read what they will be doing next.Some are fine but sometimes some don't look.


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## screenman (6 May 2018)

Welsh wheels said:


> Disagree completely. Nothing wrong with cyclists riding side by side for a while to have a chat. We have as much right to use road space as the bus. In fact more considering we aren't belching out disease-causing diesel fumes. People these days need to chill out and slow down, it's not the end of the world if you are stuck behind a few cyclists for a while.



What is your opinion of cyclists on the wrong side of the road on blind bends.


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## Welsh wheels (6 May 2018)

screenman said:


> What is your opinion of cyclists on the wrong side of the road on blind bends.


Wouldn't do it myself but sometimes riders like to do it to see what's coming. I don't think that cyclists are always without fault but that the onus should be on the least vunerable road user.


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## screenman (6 May 2018)

Welsh wheels said:


> Wouldn't do it myself but sometimes riders like to do it to see what's coming. I don't think that cyclists are always without fault but that the onus should be on the least vunerable road user.



So riding on the wrong side of a bend on a blind corner helps you see more, keep left, keep left and keep left was what my police motorcycle instructor use to tell me.


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## Welsh wheels (6 May 2018)

screenman said:


> So riding on the wrong side of a bend on a blind corner helps you see more, keep left, keep left and keep left was what my police motorcycle instructor use to tell me.


I do keep to the left myself as people do come flying around blind bends.


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## Brandane (6 May 2018)

Since motorcycles have been mentioned, is it worth pointing out to the "use as much of the road as you want" cyclists that not everything that wants to make slightly quicker progress than you is as big as a car? 
Another point - passing a cyclist and giving the same amount of space as you would give a car is subjective. Some cyclists I know seem to think this means that a car should be completely on the other side of the centre line of the road when passing, which is bollox. When passing a car at 60 mph, how much space is there between the cars? Probably about a metre. I wouldn't be a happy cyclist if a car moving at 60 mph passed me with only a metre of space; but at 30 mph it would be fine. I am just finding that a small minority of cyclists are getting themselves stressed by passes that are not close. Some of the passes I've seen on YouTube, labeled as close passes, are anything but... IMHO of course.


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## Pat "5mph" (6 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5234925, member: 9609"]the point being, why go some where quiet, remote and perfect for cycling, then ride along getting in the way of the only couple of vehicles you may see all afternoon. [/QUOTE]
Ok, got you, but the op is set in a city


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## mjr (6 May 2018)

Brandane said:


> Another point - passing a cyclist and giving the same amount of space as you would give a car is subjective. Some cyclists I know seem to think this means that a car should be completely on the other side of the centre line of the road when passing, which is bollox.


Not exactly. On almost all single carriageway roads, a car will need to cross the centre line partly to give the 1.5m safe pass, so seeing as you've got to wait for a gap in the next lane anyway, why not move fully into it? It's just rude not to.


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## classic33 (6 May 2018)

mjr said:


> Not exactly. On almost all single carriageway roads, a car will need to cross the centre line partly to give the 1.5m safe pass, so seeing as you've got to wait for a gap in the next lane anyway, why not move fully into it? It's just rude not to.


How many times do you see a car been overtaken with less than 1·5 metres?


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## FishFright (6 May 2018)

classic33 said:


> How many times do you see a car been overtaken with less than 1·5 metres?



31475 times, but that's a very rough estimate.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

Also nil points to the cyclist who sailed through a red light on Sunday morning. I was stopped in my car. I beeped him - he stuck his fingers up at me and told me to f my granny. Lycra w@nker.


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> Also nil points to the cyclist who sailed through a red light on Sunday morning. I was stopped in my car. I beeped him - he stuck his fingers up at me and told me to f my granny. Lycra w@nker.


Did you put on your blue flashing lights?


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## smutchin (8 May 2018)

screenman said:


> What is your opinion of cyclists on the wrong side of the road on blind bends.



I'd think they were after earning themselves a Darwin award. And my hunch is they're likely to come off worst if there is a bus coming the other way.

There's a blind bend just down the hill from me. I frequently experience idiot motorists overtaking me on the bend, despite the double white lines. The road was closed for several hours recently when an idiot overtaking on the bend did actually encounter a bus coming the other way. Judging by the state of the front end of the bus, the car must have been going quite fast. I think the driver lived but they had to call out the air ambulance, which was the first I knew of the incident - hearing the chopper landing in the neighbour's field at around 11.30pm.

All I can say is that it's some kind of divine retribution that it was a bus coming the other way. And I'm glad it wasn't a cyclist - although I have nearly been taken out several times by cars overtaking coming in the other direction round that bend. Some people just don't get it. If they do it on a bike, at least it's only themselves they're putting in danger.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Did you put on your blue flashing lights?



No - they don't work when I have my roof down.


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> No - they don't work when I have my roof down.


No, I suppose they wouldn't.

How does the system work with this sort of thing, anyway? Do you need to report it to your superiors immediately and fill out a load of paperwork, or is it only if somebody makes a complaint?


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## Racing roadkill (8 May 2018)

Never pull into single file to let someone past, not even on a single track road. On a standard road, if they can’t get past without taking to the opposite carriageway, they can’t get past. Even in single file, the motorist still has to give you 3 feet (1.5 meters ) clearance ( They often don’t ) so a single line of riders in ‘primary’ will still need the motorist to take to the opposite carriageway, but if the cyclists are in a single line, it will be longer, and increase the motorists’s T.E.D. So many people don’t get this fact, it’s amazing. On a single track road, find a passing place, and stop out of the way.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> No, I suppose they wouldn't.
> 
> How does the system work with this sort of thing, anyway? Do you need to report it to your superiors immediately and fill out a load of paperwork, or is it only if somebody makes a complaint?



I think blatant disregard for the rules and laws of the road followed by loutish and obscene behavior usually get discussed weekly at the team meetings.


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## screenman (8 May 2018)

Not sure about your conversion rate.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> I think blatant disregard for the rules and laws of the road followed by loutish and obscene behavior usually get discussed weekly at the team meetings.



You take issue with my actions but make no comment about your friends actions ?


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## classic33 (8 May 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Never pull into single file to let someone past, not even on a single track road. On a standard road, if they can’t get past without taking to the opposite carriageway, they can’t get past. Even in single file, the motorist still has to give you* 3 feet (1.5 meters )* clearance ( They often don’t ) so a single line of riders in ‘primary’ will still need the motorist to take to the opposite carriageway, but if the cyclists are in a single line, it will be longer, and increase the motorists’s T.E.D. So many people don’t get this fact, it’s amazing. On a single track road, find a passing place, and stop out of the way.


You're out on the feet to metres conversion.


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> I think blatant disregard for the rules and laws of the road followed by loutish and obscene behavior usually get discussed weekly at the team meetings.


Well I'm sure you'll be able to justify it so don't worry too much. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you though.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Well I'm sure you'll be able to justify it so don't worry too much. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you though.


what the hell are you talking about ?


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> what the hell are you talking about ?


You've admitted to breaking the law, so I assume you're a member of a profession which allows some sort of exemption, like the police. So I'm just wondering how you go about justifying your actions. I would have thought there'd be some kind of system for it is all.

Tell me if I'm way off.


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## mjr (8 May 2018)

mjr said:


> OK, I'll bite: where exactly on Otley Road do you think it would be safe to overtake single file cyclists without moving into the next lane?








(source)


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> You've admitted to breaking the law, so I assume you're a member of a profession which allows some sort of exemption, like the police. So I'm just wondering how you go about justifying your actions. I would have thought there'd be some kind of system for it is all.
> 
> Tell me if I'm way off.




I broke the law ?


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## glasgowcyclist (8 May 2018)

Is this where you join up for Stockholm CC?


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> I broke the law ?


What was your motivation in 'beeping' the cyclist? What did you hope to achieve?


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

Hey everyone - you know when you are sat at the traffic lights and the car in front does not move, and you use your horn - you are all breaking the law.

Forget the suicidal cyclist that passed right through the lights though, that's of no consequence.


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

And don't think you can get round it by using a gong...


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## Racing roadkill (8 May 2018)

classic33 said:


> You're out on the feet to metres conversion.
> View attachment 408248


True, it’s 0.914 meters, but I’d rather they gave me 1.5 meters to be honest


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> And don't think you can get round it by using a gong...



OK your excellency.


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## mjr (8 May 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Is this where you join up for Stockholm CC?


Clearly:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/stockholm_cc/status/949273206308900864?p=v


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## smutchin (8 May 2018)

Rooster1 said:


> Hey everyone - you know when you are sat at the traffic lights and the car in front does not move, and you use your horn - you are all breaking the law.




Yes, we discussed that one not that long ago and while I wouldn't use the horn in that situation, I can understand why some people do - there does at least seem to be a purpose to it. However...



> Forget the suicidal cyclist that passed right through the lights though, that's of no consequence.



What exactly did you hope to achieve by beeping in this case?

I admit to laughing when I read your earlier post quoting the cyclist's response.


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## mjr (8 May 2018)

smutchin said:


> What exactly did you hope to achieve by beeping in this case?


A demonstration of impotent rage, perhaps? Not the proper use of the horn, but I think it's only a minor fault in one's driving test.


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## winjim (8 May 2018)

mjr said:


> A demonstration of impotent rage, perhaps? Not the proper use of the horn, but I think it's only a minor fault in one's driving test.


Losing your temper is only a minor fault? Terrifying.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

I handed myself in to the police a while ago. I have limited internet access from the cell. Be seeing you.


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## Rooster1 (8 May 2018)

smutchin said:


> Yes, we discussed that one not that long ago and while I wouldn't use the horn in that situation, I can understand why some people do - there does at least seem to be a purpose to it. However...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The even funnier thing is, I was off to my {deceased] grandmothers house to help clear it. Can you imagine.


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## mjr (8 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Losing your temper is only a minor fault? Terrifying.


As far as I can tell from the National Standards for Driving, misuse of the horn seems like a minor (failing to control the vehicle correctly), whereas I'd expect someone to fail for going the full Ronnie Pickering (which could be interpreted as driving while unfit, in a state of anger).


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## booze and cake (8 May 2018)

Here in London large swathes of the Highway Code are ignored all the time, and irrespective of what it says about using the horn, if you have'nt started moving away from traffic lights while the light is on amber you will get honked, thems the real rulez.


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## Lonestar (10 May 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> And yes, I did jump it. So sue me.



and fifty others.


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## oldwheels (10 May 2018)

Now now User9609 you are just being mischievous. You know perfectly well that if you advocate the use of courtesy and common sense towards motorised vehicles on single track roads you are just inviting trouble. Who cares if you hold up a dozen or so cars for a few miles? They can spend more time admiring the scenery. I hope you can see the bulge in my cheek as not all can.


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