# Foam rolling



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

I've spent the last few months making foam rolling part of my life after doing my knee in in February. I discovered a number of things: First I needed to do it. Turns out most of the major muscle groups in my legs needed releasing and with that and stretching I feel a whole lot looser and it has aided my knee recovery.

So at the moment I'm rolling once a day and as I've gone on my technique has got better and I've developed a routine which covers all the areas of my leg. I've reached the stage now where I'm maintaining things. I can roll quite comfortably as opposed to when I started, when it was so painful the screams woke the dog.

I'm now thinking that for certain areas I might need to roll less. That by rolling every day I'm keeping a little bit of soreness and tension in the muscle, so a day would off be good. So I'm wondering what others do, bearing in mind we are all different?


----------



## Fubar (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> I've spent the last few months making foam rolling part of my life after doing my knee in February. I discovered a number of things: First I needed to do it. Turns out most of the major muscle groups in my legs needed releasing and with that and stretching I feel a whole lot looser and it has aided my knee recovery.
> 
> So at the moment I'm rolling once a day and as I've gone on my technique has got better and I've developed a routine which covers all the areas of my leg. I've reached the stage now where I'm maintaining things. I can roll quite comfortably as opposed to when I started, when it was so painful the screams woke the dog.
> 
> I'm now thinking that for certain areas I might need to roll less. That by rolling every day I'm keeping a little bit of soreness and tension in the muscle, so a day would off be good. So I'm wondering what others do, bearing in mind we are all different?



I use them, not as much as I should but have started after turbo training - one of the guys mentioned a video on UToob from Sky (I think?!?) of how their physios use them on the pro's - apparently 10 mins all told. not had a chance to look it up yet but might give some useful tips? It's all about working the blood back through your legs, allegedly.


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Fubar said:


> I use them, not as much as I should but have started after turbo training - one of the guys mentioned a video on UToob from Sky (I think?!?) of how their physios use them on the pro's - apparently 10 mins all told. not had a chance to look it up yet but might give some useful tips? It's all about working the blood back through your legs, allegedly.


Thanks, I'll have a look.

One of my other questions was when to use it. I have been using it after exercise to release things but I've also started to use it pre-excercise to warm up. Interesting to see what they do.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

I roll but not with foam but a £1.99 large aerosol can of car de-icer. It is heaven. The can is nice and cool even in summer. As OP said very sore at first but now have been doing it for a little over a year now and legs feel pretty good. Legs feel strong and relaxed, don't suffer any twinges and certainly no pulled muscles like I used a few years ago when riding and running far relying only on stretching without rolling. Soreness pretty much gone and now do it for relief after long rides or runs. Great for the lower legs, calves, Achilles, IBT, backs of knees, basically everywhere on legs, pressure adjusted accordingly. I try and do rolling in morning and evening always working to push blood out of muscles along tendons back up to the heart so start at furthest point i.e. Achilles on ankle. If I skip a few days when I come to roll, it is such relief! Heaven.

I really look forward to rolling after many miles in the saddle or long run. Also try to do 5-10 minutes as a warm up before I get onto my bike or putting on my running shoes which works a treat. I highly recommend it. I only occasionally stretch now and if so gently and don't push it. All the better for it. Rolling/massage is far far better than stretching imho. Have been totally injury free since I discovered this and feel 19 years old again.


----------



## Ciar (20 Oct 2014)

I do a total of 15-20 minutes normal stretches got the info on what to do via the british cycling website for stretching. as for foam rolling i then do 2 minutes per exercise on the foam roller, so that's about 10 minutes in total best thing i ever bought was a foam roller, i try to roll every night after riding as the release of tension in the legs is very noticeable.

one thing i will say. the stronger my legs got the less effective my original foam roller made of foam became, so i upgraded to this https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Fitness Mad Vari-Massage Foam Roller&tbm=shop&spd=3569019748595778872

this roller truly hits the spot, another tip i can give you is don't roll to quickly try and stretch everything and don't over do it, as it can cause issues.


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Ciar said:


> ..and don't over do it


That's the bit I'm trying to get a handle on as I feel I might be doing that in a couple of areas.


----------



## Ciar (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> That's the bit I'm trying to get a handle on as I feel I might be doing that in a couple of areas.



I can only go by what i have seen online, they say to roll for a max of 2 minutes so if your doing inside leg to release knee muscles i do 1 min to 90 seconds moving the roller towards the groin from the knee.

for thighs and sides i do each for 2 minutes, and take it very slowly pushing the muscles out but, one thing i can say don't stay on super tight spots for more than 10 seconds as that's one of the issues i have heard can cause problems.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Ciar said:


> I can only go by what i have seen online, they say to roll for a max of 2 minutes so if your doing inside leg to release knee muscles i do 1 min to 90 seconds moving the roller towards the groin from the knee.
> 
> for thighs and sides i do each for 2 minutes, and take it very slowly pushing the muscles out but, one thing i can say don't stay on super tight spots for more than 10 seconds as that's one of the issues i have heard can cause problems.



Yeah, start gently and slowly as your muscles etc won't be used to it if you've never done it before, but once you become a regular you know where the tightness in your legs develops, where your sensitive spots lie and you can roll around and gently over these massaging the tissue pushing out old blood, adjusting pressure and orientation of your body to deliver just the right degree of pressure. Heaven. You need strong arms to support yourself though.


----------



## 400bhp (20 Oct 2014)

Someone suggested foam rolling to me a couple of months back.

I'm being lazy here but could anyone point me in the direction of useful information on what to do/what not to do?

Oh, and in what way have peeps found the benefit? On/off the bike? 

Thanks


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

400bhp said:


> Someone suggested foam rolling to me a couple of months back.
> 
> I'm being lazy here but could anyone point me in the direction of useful information on what to do/what not to do?
> 
> ...



See above posts. This is all you need to know. Just get rolling. You can spend a fortune on a foam roller or do what I do. But go easy on your first few rolls as if you have NEVER done it before your leg muscles, tendons, etc, will be tender. Start at your ankles and move up always rolling toward the heart. You can do a couple of reverse rolls every now and again but predominantly to the heart.

If you have any other medical condition that you feel might be affected by you using this method then go and see your GP first.


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Ciar said:


> I can only go by what i have seen online, they say to roll for a max of 2 minutes so if your doing inside leg to release knee muscles i do 1 min to 90 seconds moving the roller towards the groin from the knee.
> 
> for thighs and sides i do each for 2 minutes, and take it very slowly pushing the muscles out but, one thing i can say don't stay on super tight spots for more than 10 seconds as that's one of the issues i have heard can cause problems.



OK, sounds sensible. My rule of thumb, was to roll an area and if it eased off to carry on for a few more roles, if it doesn't and begins to get more painful, stop. Next time you could a little bit more on it and so on until eventually it felt free.

Very painful areas and I had a lot of them initially, I could only roll for a few seconds anyhow. Funnily enough, one of the areas that is resisting release is the inside of my thigh along the adductors but I had a lot of pain around my knee where the adductors insert, so this is coming as no surprise.


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Heaven. You need strong arms to support yourself though


That too, was a limiting factor initially.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> That too, was a limiting factor initially.



But now you look like Arnie …………………… .


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

400bhp said:


> Someone suggested foam rolling to me a couple of months back.
> 
> I'm being lazy here but could anyone point me in the direction of useful information on what to do/what not to do?
> 
> ...


I haven't found the Sky one but there's a Garmin Sharp one here which uses a more methodical technique than I've been using but affirms that how I do it is roughly correct.


----------



## Ciar (20 Oct 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, start gently and slowly as your muscles etc won't be used to it if you've never done it before, but once you become a regular you know where the tightness in your legs develops, where your sensitive spots lie and you can roll around and gently over these massaging the tissue pushing out old blood, adjusting pressure and orientation of your body to deliver just the right degree of pressure. Heaven. You need strong arms to support yourself though.



I have been rolling for a year or so, as for strong arms the side of the legs is like doing a side bench  it's hurts wish i had kept using the TRX my upper body is so weak now.


----------



## Ciar (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> I haven't found the Sky one but there's a Garmin Sharp one here which uses a more methodical technique than I've been using but affirms that how I do it is roughly correct.




that's basically one of the ones i do and it's the most painful.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Yoga compliments this technique


Crackle said:


> I haven't found the Sky one but there's a Garmin Sharp one here which uses a more methodical technique than I've been using but affirms that how I do it is roughly correct.




Just watching it I could feel tightness dissipating and relief in my leg muscles. I have been doing just this but this is the first time I have seen this vid or anything like this. Thanks.

This is complimented nicely with Yoga.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Ciar said:


> that's basically one of the ones i do and it's the most painful.



For me it is a good painful as the technique massages the pain/tenderness and it makes you feel so good a short time after. I imagine if you rolled too hard, too soon or too frequently or were not very co-ordinated or delicate in applying the rolling action then problems could be caused. Unfortuntaely everyone is different so what I would say take it easy and go carefully. I tend not to stop or hold on areas as this IS painful, the wrong type of pain. I was always try to keep moving if only very slowly or side to side rocking like Dan Martin does or move an inch or two back and re-roll. But as I say once you have done it a few times you get to know how your muscles, tendons react and the sensation and after is soooo good. I feel so good after. Don't suffer any aches or pains or muscle group seizing up come the next day's ride like I used to. It's all about looking after your body and this is one technique I wish I had known about years ago as it would probably would have prevented a few injuries I suffered.


----------



## Dayvo (20 Oct 2014)

From what I saw of the Ashes series in Australia last winter on TV, England, despite being crap at the cricket, were champions at foam rolling: there's a silver lining in every cloud.


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Ciar said:


> that's basically one of the ones i do and it's the most painful.


The way that he roles straight and then rotates his leg in a static point, I find quite difficult (just tried it). Instead I do the same thing by pointing my toes as I work the roll down my leg. I can do that more easily and it seems to get deeper. I think it's basically doing the same thing though.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> The way that he roles straight and then rotates his leg in a static point, I find quite difficult (just tried it). Instead I do the same thing by pointing my toes as I work the roll down my leg. I can do that more easily and it seems to get deeper. I think it's basically doing the same thing though.



Pointing toes, toes pulled up or rotating foot, clockwise/counterclockwise, each different position affects which leg muscles further up get the full affect of the rolling. There are so many combinations and points of muscles and tendons to apply pressure to. Some times by changing body orientation, leg position slightly I discover new tissue which previously I had not been giving full affect to which is good. As I say I look forward to rolling. Did I say this already?


----------



## Crackle (20 Oct 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Did I say this already


Possibly....

One thing watching that vid confirmed for me, is that I've been putting too much pressure on my adductors, which I'd begun to suspect. Modified that one now.


----------



## Crankarm (20 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> Possibly....
> 
> One thing watching that vid confirmed for me, is that I've been putting too much pressure on my adductors, which I'd begun to suspect. Modified that one now.



Good vid Crackle. As I said everyone is different, different sensitivities, so maybe you can't take as much pressure in this area say compared to some one else? Nothing wrong with this, but better to find out sooner with help of a vid such as this, what is the best pressure and location to apply it for YOU sooner than later. This vid has certainly helped.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Oct 2014)

Self massage can be beneficial, but don't go too painful the pain is not always good for your muscles, if you have trigger points go and get them sorted by a sports massage person.

Lots (too much) of pain will cause the muscles to tighten having the opposite effect to that intended, seems to the current idea.

The IT band should not be heavily rolled on its "designed" to be tight.

I quite like using tennis balls for massaging my feet.

Sources: multiple people I know work in the advanced treatment of musculoskeletal issues, I understand that lots of you will have anecdotal and other evidence that you think the more painful the better, but the most recent research is not showing that it is the most beneficial way to self massage.


----------



## Crankarm (21 Oct 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> Self massage can be beneficial, but don't go too painful the pain is not always good for your muscles, if you have trigger points go and get them sorted by a sports massage person.
> 
> Lots (too much) of pain will cause the muscles to tighten having the opposite effect to that intended, seems to the current idea.
> 
> ...



Not necessarily.


----------



## 400bhp (22 Oct 2014)

Is there a book that someone could recommend?


----------



## Crackle (23 Oct 2014)

400bhp said:


> Is there a book that someone could recommend?


There are books on rolling but I didn't get one after reading the reviews. Instead I found that watching videos on youtube was the most helpful in giving instructions. There are of course lots of different techniques on display but the one universal constant is not to roll over joints, after that it seems very much down to what works for you.

I did buy a good book on stretching which had good diagrams in of all the muscle groups. This helped me to 'see' where I was experiencing discomfort and which muscle groups might be responsible for it.


----------



## 400bhp (17 Nov 2014)

Bought a foam roller a month ago and have been using it about 3 times a week. Wow, what an instrument of torture. Libotial bands and calves bl00dy hurt.

But, it works. I didn't use it last week, bar saturday. I was walking around like an 80 year old. Instantly felt more supple after a sesh.

I'm thinking along the OP lines from now. I ride 6 days a week and will try and do some each evening after a ride, see how it goes.


----------



## Levo-Lon (18 Nov 2014)

Sorry if this is a highjack

I keep getting tight calfs..had planter fascia and that took some shifting ,physio and stretching etc..

would rolling one of these rollers work on calfs ? If yes do you just sit on the floor and lift your backside up and move back and forth ?


----------



## Crackle (18 Nov 2014)

meta lon said:


> Sorry if this is a highjack
> 
> I keep getting tight calfs..had planter fascia and that took some shifting ,physio and stretching etc..
> 
> would rolling one of these rollers work on calfs ? If yes do you just sit on the floor and lift your backside up and move back and forth ?


You can certainly roll your calf's. Bum up or down, depending on how much pressure you need and point toe's or roll leg to do all areas. There are different rollers too, so though I roll my calf's, if I needed to concentrate on them, I might think of a smaller roller than the one I have.


----------



## Levo-Lon (18 Nov 2014)

Thanks for that Crackle..


----------



## steve292 (20 Nov 2014)

What size roller would you buy as a starter?
I've been toying with this idea for a while as my calves get "tight", for a better description.


----------



## vickster (1 Apr 2015)

@Crackle i need to get one of these instruments of torture. 45cm or 90cm? The practicalities of my lounge would lend itself better to shorter but could figure out the longer!


----------



## Crackle (1 Apr 2015)

Mine is 45, seems to be the most common size used.


----------



## vickster (1 Apr 2015)

Cheers. Just watched the vid on page 1, that is a short knobbly one!


----------



## Crackle (1 Apr 2015)

The knobbly ones seem to be designed to exert more pressure. I wouldn't start with a knobbly one!

Edit: Mind you that one in the vid doesn't look so bad. I just have a smooth one and that was painful enough to start with.


----------



## Andy Jeffery (6 Apr 2015)

I have been really lucky in the last year to have no issues that is until the last ten rides. Every ride no matter how long or short resulted in back pain on the left side and a pain in my left leg on the outside. Both bikes have been bike fitted so not the cause. I do strech after each ride so a bit frustrated as started to wait for it to come on. Last week rolled my legs and hey presto no pain during and after the Cheshire Cat route and the two rides after. I am now making rolling a priority as can't afford a massage after each ride ha ha.


----------



## ayceejay (6 Apr 2015)

meta lon said:


> Sorry if this is a highjack
> 
> I keep getting tight calfs..had planter fascia and that took some shifting ,physio and stretching etc..
> 
> would rolling one of these rollers work on calfs ? If yes do you just sit on the floor and lift your backside up and move back and forth ?



I don't want to second guess your physio but when stretching calfs, say a forward bend, try not to lock out your knees to see if this helps.


----------



## MrGrumpy (10 Apr 2015)

hmm would this be any good for hamstrings, well I have pain at top of hamstring area. Always get it after a hard session cycling, maybe I just need to stretch more


----------



## vickster (10 Apr 2015)

Possibly but you should stretch everything after each ride, don't just focus on one bit of the legs


----------



## Crackle (10 Apr 2015)

MrGrumpy said:


> hmm would this be any good for hamstrings, well I have pain at top of hamstring area. Always get it after a hard session cycling, maybe I just need to stretch more


It depends where you are tight. I find Foam rolling helps just above the knee where the hamstrings insert, point your toes left or right as you do it. It doesn't help me much for the back of the leg, instead I lie on my back and raise a straight leg, keeoing the other leg flat. For higher up, I put one leg on a stair, keep the other toe pointed forward and bend forward from the hip, keeping your back straight and shoulders square. As Vickster said, a holistic approach is probably better but concentrating on a sore area will sort it out short term.


----------



## NorthernSky (22 Feb 2016)

anyone use massage balls?
wondering whether to get the trigger point one, expensive though


----------



## ayceejay (22 Feb 2016)

You could use what the kids used to call a 'bouncy ball' instead put it in a sock and sling it over your shoulder between you and a wall to do your back.


----------



## Crackle (22 Feb 2016)

Tennis balls work too.

I got one of these over xmas

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResultSport®-Athletics-Massage-Trigger-Exercise/dp/B007NYE9E4

To reach a particular trigger point around my Vastus Lateralis. Saves me setting up a mat and roller and putting some shorts on. Also very useful.


----------



## NorthernSky (22 Feb 2016)

seen these, http://www.fitness-mad.com/massage-ball-set
a lot cheaper and 3 of them


----------



## ayceejay (24 Feb 2016)

Can anybody tell what a trigger point is?


----------



## vickster (24 Feb 2016)

Googling should help, for a physiotherapy site. Dry needling works on the same principle, ie myofascial release


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Feb 2016)

There is no evidence that stretching, which foam rolling is part of, is a good idea at all.


----------



## vickster (24 Feb 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> There is no evidence that stretching, which foam rolling is part of, is a good idea at all.


I believe it is more a form of myofascial release which is not the same as stretching


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Feb 2016)

vickster said:


> I believe it is more a form of myofascial release which is not the same as stretching


Ok: 

There is no good evidence that myofascial release is a good idea at all.


----------



## vickster (24 Feb 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Ok:
> 
> There is no good evidence that myofascial release is a good idea at all.


What evidence? Dry needling has certiinly helped relieve several of my ails, as has sports/physio massage

What would you suggest as an alternative for muscle tightness and the accompanying pain?
What are your qualifications in this respect out of interest? Doctor, physio, sports therapist, other? 

If it does no good, why do professional athletes have massage, do stretching, use foam rollers? They must see some benefit. You imply it's not a good idea, thus is it harmful?


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Feb 2016)

vickster said:


> What evidence? Dry needling has certiinly helped relieve several of my ails, as has sports/physio massage
> 
> What would you suggest as an alternative for muscle tightness and the accompanying pain?
> What are your qualifications in this respect out of interest? Doctor, physio, sports therapist, other?



Exactly, what evidence? 

I am not a fan* of any remedy that is unable to be evidenced as effective. 

My ability to determine the efficacy of myofascial release is entirely dependant on science - this enables us all to determine whether something is effective or not. The absence of evidence of its efficacy is all that is needed to park it neatly on the shelf next to crystals, snake oil and magic EDIT: forgot bike helmets and hi viz(!)

*I'm understating for politeness


----------



## vickster (24 Feb 2016)

Fair enough, that's your prerogative. So you would only a pursue a medical treatment that is proven 100% effective? Sounds risky. I prefer to weigh up the odds especially as we alol react differently to treatments whatever those may be

I'm not a scientist or expert. I take the advice of those who are


----------



## fossyant (24 Feb 2016)

Trigger points are a pain and myofacial release does work. I've had my back worked on a few times and have even had trigger points injected (4 in total) by a pain specialist.


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Feb 2016)

vickster said:


> Fair enough, that's your prerogative. So you would only a pursue a medical treatment that is proven 100% effective? Sounds risky. I prefer to weigh up the odds



I would only pursue a medical treatment that is evidenced _as effective_.

I can still weigh up odds if it is only sometimes effective, or has some downside.

But if there is no evidence that something is effective at all I may as well drink water that was once drunk by a healthy person.


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Feb 2016)

fossyant said:


> Trigger points are a pain and myofacial release does work. I've had my back worked on a few times and have even had trigger points injected (4 in total) by a pain specialist.


The Advertsing standards agency disagrees with you, and they allow the sale of beauty creams(!)


----------



## vickster (24 Feb 2016)

Myofascial release/massage and dry needling have been effective for me, so I'm happy to continue to try it when the circumstances suggest that it might work. Better than doing nothing, even if the relief is temporary


----------



## ayceejay (24 Feb 2016)

Tin Pot there is a good reason why alternative medicine exists and i won't insult you by telling you what that reason is.
As we learn more about how the body works that is of particular interest to an athlete, traditional and fixed ideas remain and are hard to shift. Oh dear I might just have spilled the beans.
The danger is the half knowledge that surrounds anything new. If someone used a foam roller and stretching and it somehow went wrong (use your imagination) they would end up in emergency and if that happened twice it would be an epidemic and foam rollers and stretching are quack. If it works we only get guys on CC talking about it if not the Daily Mail are all over it.


----------



## Tin Pot (25 Feb 2016)

ayceejay said:


> Tin Pot there is a good reason why alternative medicine exists and i won't insult you by telling you what that reason is.
> As we learn more about how the body works that is of particular interest to an athlete, traditional and fixed ideas remain and are hard to shift. Oh dear I might just have spilled the beans.
> The danger is the half knowledge that surrounds anything new. If someone used a foam roller and stretching and it somehow went wrong (use your imagination) they would end up in emergency and if that happened twice it would be an epidemic and foam rollers and stretching are quack. If it works we only get guys on CC talking about it if not the Daily Mail are all over it.



It's not medicine if it doesn't work. If it can't be proven to work, it's not medicine. So it's not an "alternative".

It exists because people are not taught how to think clearly, the value of scientific method nor about objective reality.

Science challenges fixed ideas, it provides an acceptable way to be proven wrong and move human knowledge forward.

Rejecting scientific information regresses humanity. Choosing a path that is known to be ineffective makes it less likely for you to seek out actual medicine. So it is a negative approach.

Knowledge is driven by need. Masking that need reduces the drive to investigate. If you believe myofascial release "just works", you are unlikely to be driven to study and provide objective evidence.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Feb 2016)

Foam rolling keeps my knee functioning, thats really all the evidence I need


----------



## NorthernSky (25 Feb 2016)

got my trigger point massage balls. think they will work well in combination with the roller


----------



## Jody (25 Feb 2016)

Foam rolling has worked a treat for me and my cramping calfs. @vickster mentioned in a thread about using a one and had no idea up to that point what they were or their use. Strange coincidence as my better half walked through the door that night with a foam roller from Aldi, otherwise I probably wouldn’t have gone out of my way to buy one. I watched a couple of Youtube vids on how to use them properly and gave it a try. 

All I can say is the pain in my calfs and quads was excruciating first few nights of using it but persevered until it felt OK. Now I don’t seem to cramp either as quickly (most times not at all) or with as much intensity.


----------



## Ciar (25 Feb 2016)

I foam roll regularly mostly for my knees, but i have used it for glutes and all sorts it's a god send for me personally.


----------



## belly251278 (29 Feb 2016)

I have tried rolling but I'm too heavy and my upper body strength is rubbish, I have joined the gym again now so hopefully be able to start doing
this again


----------

