# What next for Froome?



## smutchin (25 Jul 2016)

I read a comment under a piece on the Guardian website earlier that suggested riders should be capped at three Tour wins to give others a chance. First thought was what a ridiculous suggestion, but then I remembered that Eddy Merckx took a year off from the Tour in 1973 for precisely this reason. (Of course, he just won everything else instead that year. And came back to win the Tour again the following year.)

Anyway, it got me thinking, what should Chris Froome's next target be? More Tour wins or something else?

Clearly he has unfinished business with the Vuelta, so he needs to have a proper stab at that one year.

It would be great to see him giving the Giro a go as well, but he would probably find that a struggle with the cold and rain. But maybe that's a good thing - it would maybe bring him down a bit closer to everyone else's level.

Would also be great to see him make a serious attempt at winning a Monument - one area of achievement where he still falls short of Nibali. The Lombardia would probably be a good one for him to aim for.

The Rainbow jersey would make a nice addition to his wardrobe too, but of course that would depend very much on finding a course to suit.

British national road race title? It would win over a lot of critics, perhaps, but are they really worth winning over? And the timing is never going to be good while he's concentrating on the Tour.


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## vickster (25 Jul 2016)

He's riding the London-Surrey Classic on Sunday


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## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jul 2016)

Tour. Again and Again.

Next...


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## Crackle (25 Jul 2016)

I'm not sure what he's got in his armoury and all else pales in comparison to say, 5 tour wins. Nibali would probably swop his 3 GT wins for three Tours.


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## Buddfox (25 Jul 2016)

It's possible he aims for a Giro-Vuelta double, but it's hard not to aim for the Tour. Sky have too much invested not to have their best rider focused on the biggest event on the calendar.


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## ozboz (25 Jul 2016)

vickster said:


> He's riding the London-Surrey Classic on Sunday


Goes past the end of my road , shall be there to watch !!


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## mjr (25 Jul 2016)

3 more tours. Then retire, saying that he doesn't think it's humanly possible to win another tour without doping


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## vickster (25 Jul 2016)

ozboz said:


> Goes past the end of my road , shall be there to watch !!


You get a better view on a hill when the peloton is slower. Wimbledon hill not a bad place to watch

I'm marshalling so will be in Kingston where they'll be flying!


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## rich p (25 Jul 2016)

I think he could win the Vuelta as well as the tour, given the right course and a fair wind. Maybe even this year. He has a good shot at the Rio ITT this year especially now Dumoulin is iffy.
World Champs, only if there's a MTF which has been mooted apparently, possibly in Colombia.
LBL? 
He said after his first TdF win that he wanted to win 5 or 6 and I suspect that's his first priority.
Winning the Nationals won't mean much to someone who has barely ever raced in Britain, and never lived here. It means more to the Stannards, Cavs and Thomnas's of this country.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Stannards, Cavs and Thomnas's of this country.



The talk like a football pundit thread is >>>>>>>>>>


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## rich p (25 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> The talk like a football pundit thread is >>>>>>>>>>


Well, you know, the boy Froomey done good, you know, like he couldn't have done no better.
The lad from Colombia, shudda got in an early tackle to let Froomeydawgy know he woz there, but he couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Or a cow's arse.
He's gotta do better and don't even talk to me abaht them French geezers.


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## Booyaa (25 Jul 2016)

Unfortunately (for me at least) I think he will just concentrate on winning as many TdF's as he can. Would prefer to see him focus on other races but he isn't big on history of cycling so to him the the TdF eclipses everything else by a mile so wants to get as many as he can, which is fair enough, he looks pretty unstoppable at the moment on Le Tour.


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## Tin Pot (25 Jul 2016)

Triathlon would recondition him enough to pass as a human being again.


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## rich p (25 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Triathlon would recondition him enough to pass as a human being again.


Come again?


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## Racing roadkill (25 Jul 2016)

He peaked a couple of months ago, when he rode with the best. He's had to make do with a little touring ride around France for the last 3 weeks, and it's a slippery slope from now on.


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## Tin Pot (25 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Come again?


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## rich p (25 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


>


Come again?


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## rich p (25 Jul 2016)

Paddy Power have the Froomedawg as 6th favourite for the Olympic RR
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/cycling/mens-olympics-2016?ev_oc_grp_ids=2230865
There doesn't seem to be odds for the ITT

As an aside, Peter Sagan is 3rd favourite for the mtb race!!!
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/cycling/mens-olympics-2016?ev_oc_grp_ids=2230881


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## ColinJ (25 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Come again?


I _THINK_ the suggestion is that he is a bit scrawny, but aren't all GT winners these days?


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## brommers (25 Jul 2016)

I think that he was suggesting that he could go for 3 jerseys, or is that too obvious?


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## Donger (25 Jul 2016)

His two crashes this year show just how precariously close he came to repeating 2014 - and how difficult it is to string together a run of TDF wins. In a sport where the five time winners are held in such supremely high regard he would be crazy to take a gap year from the event. He simply _has _to keep going at it to grab at least another couple of maillot jaunes before bad luck, age, or stiffer competition start to become an obstacle.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jul 2016)

ColinJ said:


> I _THINK_ the suggestion is that he is a bit scrawny, but aren't all GT winners these days?



I take it back.

He should be modelling for Abercrombie and Fitch.


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## coffeejo (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I'm not sure what he's got in his armoury and all else pales in comparison to say, 5 tour wins. Nibali would probably swop his 3 GT wins for three Tours.


I think he'd probably swap the lot for one TdF win.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

Donger said:


> five time winners are held in such supremely high regard



Yeah, but not just for their Tour wins. Even if Froome does go on to win five, he'll still be a long way from matching Merckx and Hinault. I don't want to sound like I'm doing down his achievements, because winning three Tours is incredible, but he's some way from becoming one of the true greats of the sport.

He has shown another side to his racing this year - the escape with Sagan and the downhill attack are signs that he is growing in confidence and self-belief, and that he has more natural racing instinct than perhaps he has been given credit for in the past. I'd like to see him turn that into a more diverse palmarès.

Will be really interesting to see how he goes in the Vuelta. I think it's plausible that he could win it. Seven summit finishes, which might suit Quintana or Chaves better, but also a 39km flat time trial...


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## MartinQ (26 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Paddy Power have the Froomedawg as 6th favourite for the Olympic RR
> http://www.paddypower.com/bet/cycling/mens-olympics-2016?ev_oc_grp_ids=2230865
> There doesn't seem to be odds for the ITT



Think I'll put some dosh on Zakarin at 18/1 ...

Got to be the tour for Froome as the main focus, I'd have thought that Sky would use the others (especially the Giro) as carrots for the other strong riders Nieve, Henao, ...


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## rich p (26 Jul 2016)

MartinQ said:


> Think I'll put some dosh on Zakarin at 18/1 ...


Caveat emptor...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zakarin-may-ride-olympic-games-as-independent-athlete/


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## MartinQ (26 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Caveat emptor...
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zakarin-may-ride-olympic-games-as-independent-athlete/



Thought he'd been ruled out for previuosly testing positive? Must admit, I've lost the plot a bit with who's in and out, who's appealing ...


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## rich p (26 Jul 2016)

MartinQ said:


> Thought he'd been ruled out for previuosly testing positive? Must admit, I've lost the plot a bit with who's in and out, who's appealing ...


Oh yes, I think you're right...
...and me too!
What a shambles.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

PCS have a start list but I have no idea how accurate it is: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=170667&c=3


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## KneesUp (26 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, but not just for their Tour wins. Even if Froome does go on to win five, he'll still be a long way from matching Merckx and Hinault. I don't want to sound like I'm doing down his achievements, because winning three Tours is incredible, but he's some way from becoming one of the true greats of the sport.



I agree. I know it's a different sport these days and so on, but it seems to me that Indurain is nowhere near as highly thought of as the other five times winners, Hinault and Merckx. Even his nickname isn't as good. I put this down to Indurain 'only' winning 5 TdFs and 2 Giros. 

Hinault, on the other hand, has won five TdFs, including all the individual jerseys, 3 Giros, 2 Vueltas, 1 World Championship Road Race, Liege-Bastogne-Liege twice and loads of others. Like Merckx, he did a lot of this after serious injury (Hinault to his knee, Merckx to his hip). Merckx's record makes even Hinault's look a bit patchy, of course. I think also it's about how they rode - Indurain took time in time trials and then generally maintained that lead in the other stages. Hinault seemed to be looking to take time every stage he rode, which was much more exciting. I never same Merckx ride, but I gather he was the same, only more so.


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

I think I look on the Indurain era as the first real EPO wins, so therefore discredited in many ways. Indurain has sensibly kept his head down and himself out of the media attention.


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## KneesUp (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think I look on the Indurain era as the first real EPO wins, so therefore discredited in many ways. Indurain has sensibly kept his head down and himself out of the media attention.


Sadly I assume all winners are taking something, although I feel terrible saying so in case I'm wrong. I suppose that is part of the tragedy of cheating - it makes you suspect everyone.

I just can quite square the conondrum of:

we know for a fact that winners in the recent past took EPO
we know for a fact that EPO improves athletic performance hugely
we know that the performance of the elite level cyclists is on a par with those known to have used EPO

So we have to conclude that the improvements in training, nutrition and so on have - in just 10 years - have produced about the same gains as EPO did.

It makes you wonder how fast the doped riders would have gone if they'd trained properly.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> It makes you wonder how fast the doped riders would have gone if they'd trained properly.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> Indurain took time in time trials and then generally maintained that lead in the other stages.



My recollection is that he used to ride every stage like it was a time trial, including the big mountains. And apart from the pure climbers like Pantani, Chiappucci and Virenque, he would ride away from pretty much everyone with his Big Diesel Engine (another one from the big book of cycling clichés). At least, that's how I remember it anyway. May not be entirely accurate.

Never saw Anquetil race but he was supposedly much the same by all accounts. The difference, perhaps, is that EPO wasn't available in Anquetil's era, but wasn't it Anquetil who famously said you couldn't win the Tour on bread and water?


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## Dogtrousers (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> Even his nickname isn't as good.


I was reading an article on nicknames a while ago and the best nickname listed was "The Squirrel of the Canals". Can't for the life of me remember who he really was.
The Cannibal, the Badger, the Angel of the Mountains. Those are good nicknames. Froome-dawg emphatically is not.
Does anyone have a decent nickname these days? 
I suppose "The Manx Missile" is in the same bracket as "The Tashkent Express", but it's not as good.


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## Aravis (26 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I'd like to see him turn that into a more diverse palmarès.


I couldn't agree more. The assumption that the Tour is more important than anything else by several orders of magnitude - is this a British thing, like tennis and Wimbledon?

For Froome, I don't think churning out Tour after Tour would prove a great deal. The Olympic TT, World TT, Vuelta and Lombardy are surely all realistic targets this year; winning all would need a lot of luck, but if he could his career would be pretty much complete.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

Indurain vs Bugno, steaming up Alpe d'Huez at incredible speed without getting out of the saddle...


View: https://youtu.be/FPng3I7cuOM


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

Aravis said:


> I couldn't agree more. The assumption that the Tour is more important than anything else by several orders of magnitude - is this a British thing, like tennis and Wimbledon?



No, it actually is by far the biggest event in the sport. It's just that the true greats of the sport won the other GTs, World Championships and Monuments as well, so it would be nice to see Froome add some of those to his Tour wins.


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## Aravis (26 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> The Squirrel of the Canals.


Carlo Galetti, apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Galetti


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I was reading an article on nicknames a while ago and the best nickname listed was "The Squirrel of the Canals". Can't for the life of me remember who he really was.


Carlo Galetti, apparently.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/13-of-the-strangest-nicknames-in-cycling-196995


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2016)

Aravis said:


> Carlo Galetti, apparently.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Galetti


Snap.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jul 2016)

Personally I see no reason to target anything other than the next TDF win. His achievements are phenomenal, but they don't reduce taking the win in 2017.


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> we know that the performance of the elite level cyclists is on a par with those known to have used EPO
> 
> So we have to conclude that the improvements in training, nutrition and so on have - in just 10 years - have produced about the same gains as EPO did.


I'm not sure we do know that. There is much argument around it and times on climbs will be heavily influenced by weather and tactics. I don't think that people race the same way today as they did a decade ago or two decades ago. Even amongst the EPO era there are a few performances done by clean athletes which were comparable. There's some debate over Sastre's win but everything I've read points to him being clean.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> we know that the performance of the elite level cyclists is on a par with those known to have used EPO





Crackle said:


> I'm not sure we do know that.



Look at the stage from 1991 I posted earlier. The differences look pretty obvious to me, and that's not even the height of the EPO era.


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## Aravis (26 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> No, it actually is by far the biggest event in the sport. It's just that the true greats of the sport won the other GTs, World Championships and Monuments as well, so it would be nice to see Froome add some of those to his Tour wins.


I'd guess there are a lot of armchair Tour fans in Britain who'd struggle to name another top-ranking event, but I couldn't imagine that being the case on the continent. If that's right, it would follow that Britain puts the Tour on a higher pedestal than the rest of Europe.

If you take Anquetil as being the first rider of the modern age (reasonable?) then disregarding all that went before, I don't think many would dispute that the two greatest riders are Merckx and Hinault. Who's third? I'd say De Vlaeminck, yet he barely had a relationship with the Tour at all.


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## Toshiba Boy (26 Jul 2016)

Aravis said:


> I'd guess there are a lot of armchair Tour fans in Britain who'd struggle to name another top-ranking event, but I couldn't imagine that being the case on the continent. If that's right, it would follow that Britain puts the Tour on a higher pedestal than the rest of Europe.
> 
> If you take Anquetil as being the first rider of the modern age (reasonable?) then disregarding all that went before, I don't think many would dispute that the two greatest riders are Merckx and Hinault. Who's third? I'd say De Vlaeminck, yet he barely had a relationship with the Tour at all.



Whilst acknowledging you said Anquetil as the first rider of the modern age, personally I would have Anquetil himself battling with Il Campionissimo, Fausto Coppi for third spot. Only IMHO, very subjective.

See Froome going for Tour victories, sport evolves, time moves on.


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## MichaelW2 (26 Jul 2016)

Chris "Froomy" Froome really needs a better nickname. I suggest Chris "The Fox" Froome. Is it cos he is wiley and cunning? No, it is because he a clear and present danger to chickens.


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## Hont (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> we know that the performance of the elite level cyclists is on a par with those known to have used EPO



We know precisely the reverse. That the performances are not at the same level...

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-...s-ever-up-alpe-dhuez-how-many-doping-related/

So the last two times the Tour went up Alpe d'Huez only Quintana got within 4 minutes 42 seconds of the record. In fact Quintana is the only rider to even threaten a sub 40 minute climb in the last three tour ascents.


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## Hont (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Nibali would probably swap his 4 GT wins for four Tours.


FTFY

I'm not sure he would. The Giro is probably a more important race for an Italian than the Tour. Moot point though. It's not currently an option under UCI rules to swap titles . Although I did see on Eurosport Greg Lemond ask Sean Kelly if he could swap one of his world championships for one of Sean's Paris Roubaix wins.


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## KneesUp (26 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> We know precisely the reverse. That the performances are not at the same level...
> 
> http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-...s-ever-up-alpe-dhuez-how-many-doping-related/
> 
> So the last two times the Tour went up Alpe d'Huez only Quintana got within 4 minutes 42 seconds of the record. In fact Quintana is the only rider to even threaten a sub 40 minute climb in the last three tour ascents.


And his time up AX3 in 2013 was 3rd in the all time list. http://www.outsideonline.com/1920106/analysing-froomes-performance

As I said earlier, perhaps the worst thing about cheating is it makes you doubt everything.


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## MartinQ (26 Jul 2016)

vuelta is next apparently
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36897241


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## Hont (26 Jul 2016)

KneesUp said:


> And his time up AX3 in 2013 was 3rd in the all time list. http://www.outsideonline.com/1920106/analysing-froomes-performance


One rider with numbers 2 and 3 outside of the top 20 on a (much shorter climb) that has only been used 5 times. If anything that backs up a decline in overall performance even with such a small sample size, as it is only Froome we're talking about. I know you can cherry pick, but I chose Alpe D'Huez because it has been used 15 times since 1990.



KneesUp said:


> As I said earlier, perhaps the worst thing about cheating is it makes you doubt everything.


That is certainly true.


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## MichaelW2 (26 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> FTFY Moot point though. It's not currently an option under UCI rules to swap titles . .


Dammnit, I have a bunch of Strava KOMs I was hoping to trade for spring classic podium position.


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## Dayvo (26 Jul 2016)

I'm sure Froome would fit comfortably in the back of a portacabin with a microphone in his hand 'working' for Eurosport.

Seriously, though, to cap a rider at three wins is absurd.

Imagine if Bjorn Borg or Roger Federer were told to stay away from Wimbledon for a few years to let some crap other tennis player take the trophy.

Or ringing Alex Ferguson at United's peak and ask him to take his team for a money-spinning tour to Asia for a couple of seasons to let another club have a chance at the league title. And I know Man U were instructed by the FA to compete in some 'world club cup' instead of playing and FA Cup game (and defend the trophy from the year before).

Anyway, it'd be a loss of earnings, team sponsorship and a whole host of other things.

Let the big boys be allowed to play.


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## brommers (26 Jul 2016)

MartinQ said:


> vuelta is next apparently


He's been on the provisional start list for quite a while


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## Killiekevin (26 Jul 2016)

I think Froome (and Sky too) value the Tour more than the other GTs. Mainly i think because of the profile and the way it justifies the finances that sky have put into the team.

The problem is I think Froome and anyone nowadays will struggle to win the tour and another GT due to the fact the Tour is in the middle of them. I would like to see him sacrifice the tour maybe in 2018 and try and Giro Vuelta double.


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> FTFY


Yes, very clumsy phrasing on my part, I meant he'd won all three GT's


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> I think Froome (and Sky too) value the Tour more than the other GTs.



Well, to be fair, it is literally more valuable than any other race - not just in terms of prize money but in worldwide brand exposure for sponsors.


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## KneesUp (26 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Well, to be fair, it is literally more valuable than any other race - not just in terms of prize money but in worldwide brand exposure for sponsors.


Absolutely - for many years it was the only cycle race you could watch on TV in the UK, and remains one of only two that are free to air (ITV4 still has the Vuelta I presume?)


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Look at the stage from 1991 I posted earlier. The differences look pretty obvious to me, and that's not even the height of the EPO era.


It's the recovery from the attacks as well as the ease, which is typified by Indurain's Sunday riding style, you half expect him to stop for a flask of tea.

I'd forgotten about that Castorama kit though.


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> It's the recovery from the attacks as well as the ease, which is typified by Indurain's Sunday riding style, you half expect him to stop for a flask of tea.



Yeah, I was just looking at the 2013 stage for comparison - as per the list @Hont linked to earlier, Quintana's time was a few seconds slower than Bugno/Indurain in 1991. At least Riblon has the decency to look like he's put in an effort when he crosses the line!


View: https://youtu.be/rsO8dgU4XPg


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## Beebo (27 Jul 2016)

This is what he did next!


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## brommers (27 Jul 2016)

Where's Yatesey? Surely he's old enough to have a drink!


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## smutchin (27 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Where's Yatesey? Surely he's old enough to have a drink!



He's in Majka's glass, having a swim.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> View attachment 136496
> This is what he did next!


Froome has transformed himself into a criterium winner. Amazing stuff.


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## smutchin (27 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Froome has transformed himself into a criterium winner. Amazing stuff.



The Mail Online carried it as a news story. It's amazing that no one else has picked up on it.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> The Mail Online carried it as a news story. It's amazing that no one else has picked up on it.


Funnily enough, this article just appeared on my twitter page:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/news/pro-wrestling-cycling_416038


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## Twizit (27 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> View attachment 136496
> This is what he did next!



Am more impressed that Froomey is actually managing to hold that glass one handed...


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## HF2300 (27 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Funnily enough, this article just appeared on my twitter page:
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/news/pro-wrestling-cycling_416038



Tone of the article's a bit silly. These crits aren't corrupt competition, they're more akin to a soap star opening a supermarket.


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## mjr (27 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think I look on the Indurain era as the first real EPO wins, so therefore discredited in many ways. Indurain has sensibly kept his head down and himself out of the media attention.


I think Indurain kept his head down and himself out of the media attention as much as he was allowed to even while winning races, didn't he? I felt that was part of the reason why the press embraced the new range of "colourful" racers like Pantani and Armstrong a bit more than history suggests they should have.



Toshiba Boy said:


> Whilst acknowledging you said Anquetil as the first rider of the modern age, personally I would have Anquetil himself battling with Il Campionissimo, Fausto Coppi for third spot. Only IMHO, very subjective.


Coppi's better than Anquetil because he won seven grand tours and a world championship despite his career being interrupted by WW2 and cut short by an early death. However, both were unapologetic dopers so I don't think I'd put either of them there. On a straight count, surely Nibali (4 grand tours) is among the next in line unless he's discovered to be dopey? And if we're going beyond numbers, I think there's a fair argument for LeMond, for three tour wins (including *that* narrow victory and his rivalry with Hinault), for his continuing love of cycling and for being right and not backing down about Armstrong.



KneesUp said:


> Absolutely - for many years it was the only cycle race you could watch on TV in the UK, and remains one of only two that are free to air (ITV4 still has the Vuelta I presume?)


There's much more than two. ITV4 has the Vuelta, but also has many other ASO and Sweetspot races, although I wonder if they had to take the ASO ones in order to keep the Tour because scheduling of one-day race highlights has been somewhat erratic. Bike Channel also broadcast a lot of races free to air now.


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## smutchin (27 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Tone of the article's a bit silly. These crits aren't corrupt competition, they're more akin to a soap star opening a supermarket.



Very silly. What's more, the entertainment value of these races surely depends on the superficial pretence of playing it straight. If you openly admit they're just clowning around then it becomes less like the WWE wrestling and more like the Harlem Globetrotters.

Also I imagine the sight of a big bunch of world-class pro cyclists hammering round a crit circuit at great speed, even if it's not a serious race, must be a great spectacle.


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## 400bhp (29 Jul 2016)

I think Froome and Team Sky were excellent this year and, in my view, his attack downhill was one of the legendary moments in the sport that will be looked back on and talked about forever.

However, I'm a little saddened by the sheer dominance of one team at one event. There are several reasons why Sky and Froome focus (solely) on the TDF but there are wider issues from cycling from this, namely:
- Other teams decide to focus on other races as the effort and money required to defeat sky is in the TDF is not available and/or the reward does not justify the effort/cash injection.

The dominance therefore becomes self defeating for the sport.

It feels like the Armstrong era (minus the doping). 

Sky and/or Froome just don't seem interested in the history and all that comes with the sport of cycling and it makes me a little bit sad.

Maybe Tinkoff was right, the sport does need a shake up so that (for the money makers) it isn't all about one race once a year.


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## coffeejo (29 Jul 2016)

Oh come on, you can't expect a team to start losing on purpose, surely?


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Sky and/or Froome just don't seem interested in the history



How so? The Tour de France is the most historically significant race in the sport, after all.

What do you think they should be doing differently to show their respect for history? And would it compromise their objective of winning races in the present?


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## Dogtrousers (29 Jul 2016)

Sky won LBL this year, so it's not _*all*_ le Tour. I'm sure Sky would love more classics and so forth.


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## 400bhp (29 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> How so? The Tour de France is the most historically significant race in the sport, after all.
> 
> What do you think they should be doing differently to show their respect for history? And would it compromise their objective of winning races in the present?



Putting an honest effort into the other GT races.

Putting an honest effort into the Monuments

And I know that they put some effort into the Monuments, I just feel that the TDF is given too much credence by Sky.


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## 400bhp (29 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Oh come on, you can't expect a team to start losing on purpose, surely?



It's not about losing on purpose

I have expressed an observation about Sky. It is up to them, given the current way cycling works, what they do with their time and money.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Putting an honest effort into the other GT races.



2nd and 3rd place in the Vuelta in 2011, 4th place in 2012 and 2nd place in 2013 don't count as 'honest effort'?

2nd place in the Giro in 2013 doesn't count as 'honest effort'?



> Putting an honest effort into the Monuments



Wout Poels winning Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Ian Stannard coming 3rd in Paris-Roubaix don't count as 'honest effort'?

[ETA: and not forgetting Swift's 2nd in Milan-Sanremo]


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## 400bhp (29 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> 2nd and 3rd place in the Vuelta in 2011, 4th place in 2012 and 2nd place in 2013 don't count as 'honest effort'?
> 
> 
> 
> Wout Poels winning Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Ian Stannard coming 3rd in Paris-Roubaix don't count as 'honest effort'?



No


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

Would you care to elucidate what you do consider to be 'honest effort'? Frankly, the mind boggles.


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## 400bhp (29 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Would you care to elucidate what you do consider to be 'honest effort'? Frankly, the mind boggles.



Sorry I don't have time for long responses or debates at the moment but compare those minor places with the Tour wins.

And it's a shame you appear to belittle my responses with the "mind boggles" comment, as though my opinion and observation counts for nothing.


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## Killiekevin (29 Jul 2016)

How can you say 2nd and 3rd are minor places? I think my mind is boggling too


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> compare those minor places with the Tour wins.



There's more to winning races than just turning up, even if you're Sky.



> And it's a shame you appear to belittle my responses with the "mind boggles" comment, as though my opinion and observation counts for nothing.



It's just a different point of view.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> How can you say 2nd and 3rd are minor places? I think my mind is boggling too



1st in Liege-Bastogne-Liege definitely isn't a minor place.


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## hoopdriver (29 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> How can you say 2nd and 3rd are minor places? I think my mind is boggling too


So is mine. That is beyond bizarre.


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## SWSteve (29 Jul 2016)

Sky do a lot more than just the TdF. Their other results in Grand Tours, let alone their interest in the spring classics in recent years (repeated wins at Omloop Het Newsblad) as well a very strong classics season this year on top of their activity in the Giro/Vuelta should show they understand there's more to cycling that 24 days in July.

What I do understand, is that their commercial sponsors want them to put their name in the most valuable possible place, and that, surely, has to be the top step in Paris. This is all those who don't follow bike racing will know and understand. Let's not forget the bus, jerseys, hats, and flags are all pieces of an advert for a subscription based television service.


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## SWSteve (29 Jul 2016)

^that could have done with a copy editor. But the sentiment sticks


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jul 2016)

That Usain Bolt's dominance is killing off the 100m and 200m, I reckon he should concentrate on 10,000m and the marathon. 

Or is he forcing the competition to up their game...? If Sky do something new, you can be sure all the GC contenders will be looking very hard at what it is that they're doing.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> their activity in the Giro/Vuelta



On the Giro in particular, for the last two years they have entered genuine contenders with strong teams behind them. It shows that they are growing as a team and expanding their horizons. It's just a shame that Porte completely bottled it last year and Landa fell ill this year.

Probably the only team that sent its A-list rider to the Giro this year was Astana, and there are all sorts of reasons for that. Who was BMC's GC contender at the Giro this year? It seems they would rather send two team leaders to the Tour and none to the Giro. 



> What I do understand, is that their commercial sponsors want them to put their name in the most valuable possible place, and that, surely, has to be the top step in Paris.



Quite.


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## brommers (29 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> If Sky do something new, you can be sure all the GC contenders will be looking very hard at what it is that they're doing.


Tom Dumoulin is going to wear a brace on his arm in the Olympics. If this injury had happened to Froome, you can bet that Brailsford's technical team would have been working on an aerodynamic one - in fact two, one on each arm, for marginal gains.


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Tom Dumoulin is going to wear a brace on his arm in the Olympics.


And good luck to him - he's an excellent cyclist.


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## brommers (29 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> And good luck to him - he's an excellent cyclist.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2016)

Froome the balloon


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## coffeejo (29 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Froome the balloon


I have no words.


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Froome the balloon


I'm trying to imagine what happens when he punctures....


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I have no words.


Not sure what you'll make of the rear view of his piles...


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## coffeejo (29 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'm trying to imagine what happens when he punctures....


Better hope Kittel's nowhere near or he'll be thrown into the road.


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## brommers (29 Jul 2016)

I like the way that the elbows are sticking out


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## coffeejo (29 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Not sure what you'll make of the rear view of his piles...


That came on quick. From the number of times they've played the footage, he didn't have them when he ran up Mont Ventoux.


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## HF2300 (29 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> That came on quick. From the number of times they've played the footage, he didn't have them when he ran up Mont Ventoux.



Ah well, that's what a week on the bike in the Alps gets you.


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## coffeejo (29 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Ah well, that's what a week on the bike in the Alps gets you.


No wonder Quintana played it safe.


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## HF2300 (29 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> No wonder Quintana played it safe.



I was wondering why he couldn't get out of the saddle...


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## MartinQ (29 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Oh yes, I think you're right...
> ...and me too!
> What a shambles.



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zakarin-pulled-from-flight-to-rio-olympics-at-last-minute/

Looks like he didn't know what was going on either ...


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## Strathlubnaig (29 Jul 2016)

The discussion seems to have gone from What next for Froome to Sky overall. Froome should expand his own horizons, he has made his mark on the TdF and may see further success in La Vuelta, so it would be good to see him in other races through the season and early on in the year. As Merckx said "he's very good of course, but I raced all year round". For Sky, with the budget and line up they have it would be almost criminal for them NOT to be a presence at all WT races (as in contender for the win) and lesser known ones too.


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## rugby bloke (11 Aug 2016)

Bronze medal in the TT it would appear ... Had to work hard for that one, shows what Wiggo achieved with the Tours and gold in the TT in 2012.


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## SWSteve (11 Aug 2016)

rugby bloke said:


> Bronze medal in the TT it would appear ... Had to work hard for that one, shows what Wiggo achieved with the Tours and gold in the TT in 2012.



He also got Bronze in 2012. Just like Brazilian Footballers, he's never going to get gold (unlike Mexico who have loads of them)


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## oldroadman (12 Aug 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> The discussion seems to have gone from What next for Froome to Sky overall. Froome should expand his own horizons, he has made his mark on the TdF and may see further success in La Vuelta, so it would be good to see him in other races through the season and early on in the year. As Merckx said "he's very good of course, but I raced all year round". For Sky, with the budget and line up they have it would be almost criminal for them NOT to be a presence at all WT races (as in contender for the win) and lesser known ones too.


All WT teams have an obligation to start WT events. The decision on which riders is their own. Most teams tend to have a classics squad who do some of the slightly less known one day races and short stage races. The GC squad concentrate on major tours. This is how a team wins races and keeps sponsors happy, which keeps the team and support staff in jobs.
The comments earlier from Eddy Merckx are all well and good, coming from one of the world's best riders of his era. An era when preparation was key and people sometimes simply refused to be tested. He was still brilliant and dominant, but of his time. Today is just a bit different and takes a different approach.


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## oldroadman (12 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Not sure what you'll make of the rear view of his piles...


I remember that feeling too well! There was a well known British pro rider (not at WT level) who used to bleed at almost every race. But he toughed it out and had some great results. Shorts didn't last too long though.


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## Strathlubnaig (13 Aug 2016)

oldroadman said:


> All WT teams have an obligation to start WT events. The decision on which riders is their own. Most teams tend to have a classics squad who do some of the slightly less known one day races and short stage races. The GC squad concentrate on major tours. This is how a team wins races and keeps sponsors happy, which keeps the team and support staff in jobs.
> The comments earlier from Eddy Merckx are all well and good, coming from one of the world's best riders of his era. An era when preparation was key and people sometimes simply refused to be tested. He was still brilliant and dominant, but of his time. Today is just a bit different and takes a different approach.


That is not what I meant, I do of course know WT teams must field a team at WT races, I meant that with Sky's roster they should always have a meaningful presence not just participate.


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