# Dawes Horizon Tour



## RyanOP (10 Jun 2020)

Hi everyone,

Recently picked up a Dawes Horizon Tour with a Reynolds 520 frame. 

I'm looking to restore/upgrade it as best I can as this is the first road/touring bike I've ever owned.

As of writing this, I've managed to get new tires and tubes, running Schwalbe Land Cruisers on a 700x 38c wheel.

I've also managed to make a list of all the parts I need to get, which is pretty much the full bike minus the tires and frame.

Here's a breakdown
- Shimano Sora Brake Levers + Shifters
- Shimano Sora Front Derailleur
- Shimano Acera Rear Derailleur
- SR Suntour CR310 Crankset
- Tektro Oryx Cantilever Brakes
- I need a new bottom bracket and crankset to replace the SR Suntour but I don't have the tool to get to it and find out what I need so if anyone has any idea what I could need that'd be fab

Any help along this journey would be much appreciated as this is my first time doing such a project but I really want to get this bike to a point where I can take it out for longer rides.

Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer!

Thanks!


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## Cycleops (10 Jun 2020)

Hello Ryan and welcome to the forum.

If you could post a pic of the actual bike that would help a lot.
The BB is likely going to be square taper so all you need to do is check the spindle length and replace accordingly. You’ll need a crank extractor to remove the crankset but if it’s shot you can just just drift it off with a hammer and length of wood or metal.. Likewise for the BB. I think these bikes originally came with a Shimano crankset so the Suntour might be a replacement so you could revert to a Shimano.
Im not too familiar with the model but I’d check that 38c tyres will fit inside the frame


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## Vantage (10 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Recently picked up a Dawes Horizon Tour with a Reynolds 520 frame.
> 
> ...



What's your budget like?
I ask because Sora shifter/brake levers are gonna cost a small fortune. In the region of £160 or more. A cheaper alternative which I took, is to go for downtube shifters and separate brake levers. Part of the reason I went this route is because of the abysmal braking I was getting from Tektro Oryx cantilevers and believe me, I tried everything to get those bloody things to work. You'll need good brakes to stop a loaded tourer and so I'd recommend full size V brakes and V brake specific levers to use them. Downtube shifters take some getting used to but I wouldn't go back to brifters(sti/brake units). Alternatively, bar end or thumb shifters would also work although bar end shifters are I think quite pricy. 
Front dérailleurs last forever but unfortunately, rear ones don't. With that in mind, I'd seriously consider going for a Deore or higher rear derailleur. I've had Acera in the past and they wear out quickly. A little money now will save you alot of money later.
The Shimano UN55 square taper bottom bracket is regarded by many as the bees knees in the touring world.
Spa Cycles own brand chainsets are well made and I've yet to see a bad review of them. Spa allow you to spec the ring sizes on ordering on some of them.


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Thanks for the warm welcome Cycleops and Vantage  
I’ll post some pictures shortly, I have managed to fit the 38c tires and I’m currently riding it to work as a makeshift fixie because I can’t change the gears without it skipping and jumping all over the place so it only seems to work best on one chainring at the front and back. Occasionally jumps but I’m putting that down to the chainrings being old and worn out, I can visibly see 2 teeth worn down to bumps opposed to teeth 

Budget wise, I’m not really fussed I just don’t want to be splashing cash on the top end stuff so mid range is ok.
I’m quite fond of the Sora shifters so might just replace them. I’m looking to get all the parts I need together and then just do the full lot in a day or two.
The bike itself serves it purpose for now of getting me to and from work (less than 10 mins away and via concrete tracks so I’m never on the road for more than 30 seconds) 

The tools are another thing I need to get, thinking of getting one of those packs where you get more or less everything you need.

Thanks for the advice on models for rear derailleur and bottom bracket I’ll have a look!


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

With the tires off us when I first got it. Tires on is where it’s at now minus the front derailleur as the cable sheath was rusted and frayed so I couldn’t use the front derailleur, I still have it though


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Cont...


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## Vantage (11 Jun 2020)

I'd always wondered why my old Dawes Vantage had such a big downtube. 
The Horizon was upgraded by Dawes and its replacement budget tourer was named Vantage.


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## Cycleops (11 Jun 2020)

Maybe they thought it would give it a big adVantage?


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Love that paint job Vantage! I’m seriously considering repainting mine as it’s full of chips and scratches and scuffs


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Definitely want leather wraps too


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## Vantage (11 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Definitely want leather wraps too



The wrap on that bike was Deda leather look fake stuff. It did the job perfectly well but after rewrapping a few times it started tearing. 
My current rig has Spa leather tape which I can recommend. It's about £27 after you've paid postage but still cheaper than the Brooks stuff which is over £40. 
I'm somewhat accident prone so £27 for tape whilst pricy, will hopefully last a long time.


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Vantage said:


> The wrap on that bike was Deda leather look fake stuff. It did the job perfectly well but after rewrapping a few times it started tearing.
> My current rig has Spa leather tape which I can recommend. It's about £27 after you've paid postage but still cheaper than the Brooks stuff which is over £40.
> I'm somewhat accident prone so £27 for tape whilst pricy, will hopefully last a long time.


I like the look of Spa’s stuff, glad you recommended them, otherwise I would’ve been forming out for Brooks which as much as they are nice I don’t need that much of a high end saddle


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I like the look of Spa’s stuff, glad you recommended them, otherwise I would’ve been forming out for Brooks which as much as they are nice I don’t need that much of a high end saddle


Forking*


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## Gunk (11 Jun 2020)

That’s very similar to the sort of bike I restore. My advice would be to strip it back to bare frame. You can then carefully check each component on the bench and either clean/restore or replace, you’ll be surprised how well some of this stuff will come up with some wire wool and WD40. I would then replace all the cables, BB and headset, I would also strip out the wheel spindles and replace the bearings.

You then have the comfort when it’s all reassembled that it’s as good as a brand new bike. There is no greater pleasure than riding a bike that you have built yourself.


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## Vantage (11 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I like the look of Spa’s stuff, glad you recommended them, otherwise I would’ve been forming out for Brooks which as much as they are nice I don’t need that much of a high end saddle



Ah, that's one thing I can't recommend. Their saddles.
It's a personal thing as we all know but my experience of Spa's leather saddles is that they absolutely will not ever break in. I think there's been a few reports of them getting softer with age but on the whole most users find them rock hard and that never changes. Shame really. 
They have a sort of water proof membrane glued to the underside of the saddles which stops the leather stretching.


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Gunk said:


> That’s very similar to the sort of bike I restore. My advice would be to strip it back to bare frame. You can then carefully check each component on the bench and either clean/restore or replace, you’ll be surprised how well some of this stuff will come up with some wire wool and WD40. I would then replace all the cables, BB and headset, I would also strip out the wheel spindles and replace the bearings.
> 
> You then have the comfort when it’s all reassembled that it’s as good as a brand new bike. There is no greater pleasure than riding a bike that you have built yourself.


I'm quite looking forward to the project, especially this being my first one. Not to mention the fact that it was free will give me some bragging rights when it looks like a brand new bike!

Where's the best places to buy parts and such? I tried a local bike shop but I'm pretty sure they ripped me off for my tyres and with covid they're a bit limited.

As above, I need a few tools as well, I wasn't really prepared for this just kind of making it up as I go along!

I had a quick peek at your Raleigh Royal 531 project thread, I saw that the Reynolds sticker is all scuffed up, wondered if you had found a solution? Just because I saw you can get replacement stickers from Reynolds on this link, you just have to email them. Or check out their approved distributor (H Lloyd Cycles).

https://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/faqs/general/

https://h-lloyd-cycles.myshopify.com/collections/reynolds


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## RyanOP (11 Jun 2020)

Vantage said:


> Ah, that's one thing I can't recommend. Their saddles.
> It's a personal thing as we all know but my experience of Spa's leather saddles is that they absolutely will not ever break in. I think there's been a few reports of them getting softer with age but on the whole most users find them rock hard and that never changes. Shame really.
> They have a sort of water proof membrane glued to the underside of the saddles which stops the leather stretching.


Ah fair enough! I’m a bit undecided on saddle anyway. I’ll use this bike most days to cycle to work and the odd trip to where my girlfriend’s horse is stabled. Then when she has her bike that’s when I’ll be doing longer rides (or when I find some friends that fancy a few long distance tours around the U.K.) whichever comes first! Maybe I’ll get something cheap and cheerful for my commute as it’s only short and something more comfortable like a brooks for longer rides.


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## Vantage (11 Jun 2020)

Spa often have lots of bits at sale price but their stock can be quite limiting if you're after a particular brand or part. 
SJS Cycles is my port of call for choice as they have just about everything. 
Amazon (I'll be hung, drawn and quartered for this) are handy for when you want something cheaper and then there's the bay of E for hard to find bits. 
The all in one tool kits you mention are OK for general day to day maintenance and as long as the tools aren't mistreated (like grinding open a cone spanner to make it bigger because a certain dumbass didn't check the size properly)   they'll do fine.


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## RyanOP (12 Jun 2020)

Vantage said:


> Spa often have lots of bits at sale price but their stock can be quite limiting if you're after a particular brand or part.
> SJS Cycles is my port of call for choice as they have just about everything.
> Amazon (I'll be hung, drawn and quartered for this) are handy for when you want something cheaper and then there's the bay of E for hard to find bits.
> The all in one tool kits you mention are OK for general day to day maintenance and as long as the tools aren't mistreated (like grinding open a cone spanner to make it bigger because a certain dumbass didn't check the size properly)   they'll do fine.


I think I’ll probably end up getting bits from all over the place, the main thing that worries me is making sure they’ll fit and function as they should. I had to remove the mudguards if this bike due to them being snapped and held together by parcel tape and now I want to buy new ones but haven’t got a clue how to get the right size


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## Vantage (12 Jun 2020)

You say you've fitted 700 X 38c landcruisers? If you measure between the chainstays at the top of the tyre you'll get your max width mudguard size. 
At a guess, from your photos and from my old Vantage I'd say you're safe with 45mm guards. 
Your rear tyre is on back to front too


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## RyanOP (13 Jun 2020)

Vantage said:


> You say you've fitted 700 X 38c landcruisers? If you measure between the chainstays at the top of the tyre you'll get your max width mudguard size.
> At a guess, from your photos and from my old Vantage I'd say you're safe with 45mm guards.
> Your rear tyre is on back to front too


Yeah, and thanks! I’ll get a measurement this weekend and get it noted  

Well spotted! Luckily those photos were taken before I pumped them up and that’s when I realised they were on back to front. Strangely not from the logo being backwards but I saw the little arrow on the tire near where the PSI info is


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## RyanOP (16 Jun 2020)

Honestly cannot wait until payday so I can get some parts for this! I've discovered the bar tape I bought was cheap as it's starting to tear after one rewrap as I adjusted the position of the brifters... I've also discovered a bit of a problem in that the seat post will not budge. At all. So that's going to be an issue for adjusting saddle height.

Does anyone know where to get a reasonably priced repair stand? I've built a very temporary wooden one for the time being using scrap wood in the shed but it's not very stable


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## CanucksTraveller (16 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Honestly cannot wait until payday so I can get some parts for this! I've discovered the bar tape I bought was cheap as it's starting to tear after one rewrap as I adjusted the position of the brifters... I've also discovered a bit of a problem in that the seat post will not budge. At all. So that's going to be an issue for adjusting saddle height.
> 
> Does anyone know where to get a reasonably priced repair stand? I've built a very temporary wooden one for the time being using scrap wood in the shed but it's not very stable



Bar tape: Before you start with new tape, it's helpful to sacrifice a short length at one end if you've not used it before. Cut off about 15cm and then have a play with it, stretch it until it breaks and then you know the tension where it'll go. That should hopefully save you from wasting a roll by breakage halfway along. 
Try to get into a habit of doing all your brifter adjustments, cable taping etc while the bars are already stripped and before you wrap, that's the easiest time to work on them. 

Seat post: There are lots of techniques and you might need to try a couple, but something will work. Apart from the issue of saddle adjustment it'll need a clean and regrease in there anyway to stop it getting any worse. Youtube is your friend there, search for stuck seatpost and there are lots of good instructional clips. 

Work stand: There's a generic work stand that's sold under a few brand names and at various retailers which is a good one, (it's branded as Ultrasport on Amazon, or Bikehut at Halfords, there are others). You won't end up paying more than 45 pounds for one, I got mine for 25 at Halfords when they did a half price offer. (RRP is 50).
https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-maintenance/bike-work-stands/bikehut-repair-stand-164412.html


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## Gunk (16 Jun 2020)

My method of removing a stuck seat post is to pop the wheels off and put the seat post in a vice and then pull it out using the frame of the bike for leverage. This also works on stubborn bottom brackets.


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## RyanOP (17 Jun 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Bar tape: Before you start with new tape, it's helpful to sacrifice a short length at one end if you've not used it before. Cut off about 15cm and then have a play with it, stretch it until it breaks and then you know the tension where it'll go. That should hopefully save you from wasting a roll by breakage halfway along.
> Try to get into a habit of doing all your brifter adjustments, cable taping etc while the bars are already stripped and before you wrap, that's the easiest time to work on them.
> 
> Seat post: There are lots of techniques and you might need to try a couple, but something will work. Apart from the issue of saddle adjustment it'll need a clean and regrease in there anyway to stop it getting any worse. Youtube is your friend there, search for stuck seatpost and there are lots of good instructional clips.
> ...


Sounds like I'm going to end up on a youtube journey and hopefully come out the other side knowing how to sort my bike out!

Thanks for the recommendation on the stand as well, I think I'll pick one up next week, the Ultrasport stand on Amazon looks perfect.

I think I'm going to start off with the parts that are in the most need of replacement or repair. Which are the BB, crankset and front derailleur

Currently, my bike has a 9-speed triple crankset (correct me if I've described that wrong) - is it possible to change this to a more modern setup with a double or does that mean I need a new rear derailleur and cassette to match? (that is the end goal but I'm doing this project a bit at a time)


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## Vantage (18 Jun 2020)

Is there something wrong with the front dérailleur? Those things tend to last forever unless it's been properly hammered. The pic of it you posted earlier doesn't show any real damage other than it looking a bit rough. Might just need a good polish. That's what I did on mine, it's 8 years old and less posh than your sora. The only original part left from my Dawes Vantage.







Whether you use a double or triple chainset depends on what you plan on using the bike for. Doubles are only really seen on road/racing bikes for reasons unknown to me. Weight saving probably. They tend to have rather large chainrings though which means bigger gears to push. Many think they're too big really.
If you do go that route, you'll need a double specific left hand shifter as a triple won't work. Not very well anyway. The rear derailleur and cassette don't need changing in either circumstance.
The humble triple chainset has a lot going for it in my opinion. I've never used anything but. That granny ring will be a lifesaver when a steep hill beckons you. Especially if you end up using the bike for its intended purpose, touring.


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## RyanOP (18 Jun 2020)

Vantage said:


> Is there something wrong with the front dérailleur? Those things tend to last forever unless it's been properly hammered. The pic of it you posted earlier doesn't show any real damage other than it looking a bit rough. Might just need a good polish. That's what I did on mine, it's 8 years old and less posh than your sora. The only original part left from my Dawes Vantage.
> 
> View attachment 530686
> 
> ...


I think I probably will keep a triple then, as I’ll be using this for to and from work and longer rides when it’s all done.
The front derailleur itself I don’t think has any problems, the cable seems intact but the outer and the spring around where the cable stop and barrel adjuster was all rusted and frayed and wouldn’t work. I’m going to replace the cable first and then I’ll know if the FD is broken too


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## RyanOP (18 Jun 2020)

I’m also looking forward to getting all the parts off once I have the tools and giving them a good scrub with some steel wool and seeing how good I can get it all to come out. The cleaning I’ve done on it so far was just using some muc-off, an old toothbrush and a pressure washer


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## Gunk (18 Jun 2020)

Fine wire wool and WD40 and they come up like new


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## RyanOP (30 Jun 2020)

Looks like I'll be spending this month cleaning up the existing parts I intend to keep as I've been paid but bloody bills have scuppered my hopes of getting some new parts in!


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## raleighnut (30 Jun 2020)

Looks a good project bike


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## uphillstruggler (30 Jun 2020)

you have a peach there, ill have a look at the parts on mine if you have no luck sourcing anything.

its a brilliant bike, stable as you like with a full load of shopping/panniers.

its as close to a do it all (minus the racing) utility bike as you can get. I actually like it more than the galaxy I used for a weekend. its more flexible with the wider range of tyres for multi surface journeys (just my opinion obviously)


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## RyanOP (30 Jun 2020)

uphillstruggler said:


> you have a peach there, ill have a look at the parts on mine if you have no luck sourcing anything.
> 
> its a brilliant bike, stable as you like with a full load of shopping/panniers.
> 
> ...


Thank for the compliment uphill  I'm visiting my girlfriend's uncle who claims to have a shed full of parts and is pretty savvy with fixing up bikes.
I live in Hull and he picks up tatty bikes from drug dealers/cr*ckheads that have thrown them in bushes or even into drains (of course making sure they're not reported stolen first) and fixes them up for either personal use or loans to friends and sells the odd one too.

Hopefully, he can help me out with exactly what my issue is with the drivetrain and I might get some mates rates parts from him!

Thanks for the offer though, if I struggle anywhere I'll let you know. Are those mudguards original or did you buy them? Need some of them myself...

Also, what brakes and brifters are you using?

I agree with you on the tyres, been using mine to and from work over tarmac, loose gravel, the odd patch of mud and grass and they've been fine. I've also noticed that in the rain, the nobbly bits on the side actually fling some of the water sideways rather than up my back. Still get a little off of the centre tread though, hence the need for mudguards!


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## uphillstruggler (30 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Thank for the compliment uphill  I'm visiting my girlfriend's uncle who claims to have a shed full of parts and is pretty savvy with fixing up bikes.
> I live in Hull and he picks up tatty bikes from drug dealers/cr*ckheads that have thrown them in bushes or even into drains (of course making sure they're not reported stolen first) and fixes them up for either personal use or loans to friends and sells the odd one too.
> 
> Hopefully, he can help me out with exactly what my issue is with the drivetrain and I might get some mates rates parts from him!
> ...



Evening @RyanOP

the guards are SKS, and we’re fitted to the bike when I bought it second hand

the shifters are 3 x 8 Shimano flightdeck, work perfectly still

I’ve updated the Oryx brakes with a newer version and they work well


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## RyanOP (30 Jun 2020)

uphillstruggler said:


> Evening @RyanOP
> 
> the guards are SKS, and we’re fitted to the bike when I bought it second hand
> 
> ...


Slightly envious of those brifters! I have the exact same ones but they’re all stuffed up to the point the logo is just about visible and the hoods have tears and a couple of chunks of material missing  
I haven’t been able to find any online and as much as they work okay I want them to look like new... any suggestions?

What size guards did you buy? I’m assuming I’ll just need the same as I’m on 700x38c wheels and my frame is very similar to yours. Reynolds 520?


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## RyanOP (30 Jun 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Slightly envious of those brifters! I have the exact same ones but they’re all stuffed up to the point the logo is just about visible and the hoods have tears and a couple of chunks of material missing
> I haven’t been able to find any online and as much as they work okay I want them to look like new... any suggestions?
> 
> What size guards did you buy? I’m assuming I’ll just need the same as I’m on 700x38c wheels and my frame is very similar to yours. Reynolds 520?


**scuffed up brifters**


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## uphillstruggler (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Slightly envious of those brifters! I have the exact same ones but they’re all stuffed up to the point the logo is just about visible and the hoods have tears and a couple of chunks of material missing
> I haven’t been able to find any online and as much as they work okay I want them to look like new... any suggestions?
> 
> What size guards did you buy? I’m assuming I’ll just need the same as I’m on 700x38c wheels and my frame is very similar to yours. Reynolds 520?



the guards were already on the bike when I bought it, I think there are some shifters in the for sale thread, maybe not flightdeck but similar

the frame is indeed 520, it’s not a light bike but it makes no difference when you have a full load

I use mines for most utility cycling and it does it well

best of luck with the rebuild


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

uphillstruggler said:


> the guards were already on the bike when I bought it, I think there are some shifters in the for sale thread, maybe not flightdeck but similar
> 
> the frame is indeed 520, it’s not a light bike but it makes no difference when you have a full load
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, sorry! 

I never even knew there was a for sale thread on here so thank you for mentioning that!
I've only done some light reading on here so far and of course posting in this thread. 

I got a puncture in my front tyre this morning so will have to repair that tonight, probably caused by a local degenerate smashing a beer bottle on the paths I use; as I've been dodging the clearly visible patches of shattered glass, one piece must've got me today


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## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2020)

As vantage said Ryan, I'd stick with 9 speed triple - nothing more needed for touring and general use.
There is also an economical 12-36 rear cassette in 9 speed which should get you up pretty much anything.
Kinda related to that, re buying bits, the likes of chain reaction and wiggle aren't too interested in sensible old stuff these days.
Spa as mentioned are great.
I would also check out.
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/

(in Germany)

Since the pound went wobbly their prices aren't as hot as they used to be, but you can still often save a few pounds per bit on each item,which at least for me usually more than offsets the courier charge. The courier service is excellent - often as fast/faster than some pure UK suppliers.

But one of the great things about Rose is that they still sell lots of sensible down to earth stuff, major components, bits and bobs.


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> As vantage said Ryan, I'd stick with 9 speed triple - nothing more needed for touring and general use.
> There is also an economical 12-36 rear cassette in 9 speed which should get you up pretty much anything.
> Kinda related to that, re buying bits, the likes of chain reaction and wiggle aren't too interested in sensible old stuff these days.
> Spa as mentioned are great.
> ...


Thanks @Blue Hills - looking at the Spa website and the ROSE site I'm tempted by the Dura Ace 9 speed downtube shifters - I know @Vantage mentioned previously, think it'll be cheaper and easier and I've come around that it would actually look cooler to have them 

Thanks for the detail on the 12-36 rear cassette too (I believe you're referring to the Shimano CS-HG400 9-Speed?) I've added it to my wishlist for next month where I can hopefully get a few bits.

Agreed, I'm going to stick with the 9 speed


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Thanks to everyone thus far for their input, you've all be very helpful and I've learnt a thing or two! I look forward to getting to work on this next month and showing off the results


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## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

DuraAce? £60!

I've no experience of those, however I've been using SunRace shifters for almost a year with no real issues. 
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/sunrace-r91-9-spd-down-tube-shifters-braze-on-pair/
As much as I live the simplicity of DT shifters I will add a word of caution... 
They (at least mine are) are an absolute pain in the backside to index. Overshifting is a requirement and as far as I'm aware, it's just something DT users get used to. 
It's a case of shifting one gear higher than you'd like and then then shifting back down again to the gear you want. 
Multiple shifts up are a blessing though when a steep hill rears its ugly head.


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> DuraAce? £60!
> 
> I've no experience of those, however I've been using SunRace shifters for almost a year with no real issues.
> https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/sunrace-r91-9-spd-down-tube-shifters-braze-on-pair/
> ...


Sounds like I need to get better at looking into parts that aren't too expensive!  I figured £60 was cheap compared to the brifters I was looking at but £24.99 is lovely!

That's alright, I'm sure I'll get used to it and its not that big of a deal when considering the cost-saving, practicality and the coolness factor.

I'll get a photo when I go on my lunch break of where they'd be fitted just so I can get advice on what I need to be able to mount them (or if I can just fit them straight to the tube) I have the holes there which currently house the cable stops.


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## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2020)

in don't know the model number of the cassettebbut I think there is only one.
Seem


RyanOP said:


> Thanks for the detail on the 12-36 rear cassette too (I believe you're referring to the Shimano CS-HG400 9-Speed?) I've added it to my wishlist for next month where I can hopefully get a few bits.
> 
> Agreed, I'm going to stick with the 9 speed


Thumbs up to 9 speed.
Don't know the name of that cassette but pretty sure there is only one.
The lack of an 11T would be considered a plus by many - many folk consider 11T to be a waste - wears too quickly.
Might be a useful exercise to compare Rose and Chain Reaction prices for it.

(of course your bike fettling would be even simpler if you went flat bar  )

I will look out for an Horizon - I know they are highly regarded by many.


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Thanks @Blue Hills - looking at the Spa website and the ROSE site I'm tempted by the Dura Ace 9 speed downtube shifters - I know @Vantage mentioned previously, think it'll be cheaper and easier and I've come around that it would actually look cooler to have them
> 
> Thanks for the detail on the 12-36 rear cassette too (I believe you're referring to the Shimano CS-HG400 9-Speed?) I've added it to my wishlist for next month where I can hopefully get a few bits.
> 
> Agreed, I'm going to stick with the 9 speed


Spacing is different on 9 speed Dura-Ace cassettes*, the DT shifters will however work on an 8 speed cassette with a redundant click on the shifter as does my set up with Dura-Ace 8/9 speed bar end ones

* Shimano first launched 9 speed on DA but they decided the Cassette spacing was too wide for the rear axle/hub to cope with so they narrowed it when they launched 9 speed in 'lesser' groupsets. It is one of the historical anomalies in the Shimano range of 'cross groupset' compatibility Mind you 9 speed DA is 20+ yrs old now.


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Spacing is different on 9 speed Dura-Ace cassettes*, the DT shifters will however work on an 8 speed cassette with a redundant click on the shifter as does my set up with Dura-Ace 8/9 speed bar end ones
> 
> * Shimano first launched 9 speed on DA but they decided the Cassette spacing was too wide for the rear axle/hub to cope with so they narrowed it when they launched 9 speed in 'lesser' groupsets. It is one of the historical anomalies in the Shimano range of 'cross groupset' compatibility Mind you 9 speed DA is 20+ yrs old now.


So I’d need an 8 speed cassette then? Not 9?


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Okay so here are a couple of pics of where I’ll put the DT shifters, ft. my flat tyre.

I’m assuming there’s another braze on mount underneath the cable stop as that’s what was under the left one. 
do I just need to try and clean them up or can I buy new rust free ones?


----------



## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

Give the mounts a polish, put a dab of grease on and your DT shifters will bolt straight on.
The mounts tend to be brazed to the frame or are available as mounts brazed to a clamp for frames without the mounts. Yours are fine though.
Between the shift lever and the mount there's a spacer thingybob but that's supplied with the shifters.
9 speed shifters are indexed to suit 9 speed cassettes. Simples as dimples.
One more thing, with DT shifters you lose the ability to tweak cable tension at the shifter...no barrel adjuster there. With that in mind, steer clear of the shimano 'shadow' rear dérailleurs as they too are minus a barrel adjuster. Been there, done that.


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Give the mounts a polish, put a dab of grease on and your DT shifters will bolt straight on.
> The mounts tend to be brazed to the frame or are available as mounts brazed to a clamp for frames without the mounts. Yours are fine though.
> Between the shift lever and the mount there's a spacer thingybob but that's supplied with the shifters.
> 9 speed shifters are indexed to suit 9 speed cassettes. Simples as dimples.
> One more thing, with DT shifters you lose the ability to tweak cable tension at the shifter...no barrel adjuster there. With that in mind, steer clear of the shimano 'shadow' rear dérailleurs as they too are minus a barrel adjuster. Been there, done that.


Nice one! What do you mean by ‘shadow’ shimano rear derailleurs? Is that the model name?


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Nice one! What do you mean by ‘shadow’ shimano rear derailleurs? Is that the model name?





Vantage said:


> Give the mounts a polish, put a dab of grease on and your DT shifters will bolt straight on.
> The mounts tend to be brazed to the frame or are available as mounts brazed to a clamp for frames without the mounts. Yours are fine though.
> Between the shift lever and the mount there's a spacer thingybob but that's supplied with the shifters.
> 9 speed shifters are indexed to suit 9 speed cassettes. Simples as dimples.
> One more thing, with DT shifters you lose the ability to tweak cable tension at the shifter...no barrel adjuster there. With that in mind, steer clear of the shimano 'shadow' rear dérailleurs as they too are minus a barrel adjuster. Been there, done that.


Oh yeah just googled them, nah I’ll be okay I’m not looking for an all black RD, I want as much silver/chrome as I can get on this


----------



## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Nice one! What do you mean by ‘shadow’ shimano rear derailleurs? Is that the model name?


Shimano released a series of rear mechs that had an extra hinged plate which places the top jockey wheel lower in order to clear the sprockets of these huge cassettes (36t upwards) now common.
For some stupid reason they neglected to fit barrel adjusters to them. Probably because most modern shifters have adjusters built into them.


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> 9 speed shifters are indexed to suit 9 speed cassettes. Simples as dimples.


All except 9 speed Dura-Ace which have a wider spacing between the cogs. They also have completely separate cogs and spacers unlike the others where most are connected together, this was to give the option to build 'custom' blocks. It is well obsolete now and not only are the cogs rare but NOS examples are eye wateringly expensive. I was lucky in that Martin at Websters Cycles had one of the DA 8s with the same spacing and sold it to me for the original price (still very costly but not wallet wrenching)


----------



## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I want as much silver/chrome as I can get on this


I did the same 
I'd give up trying to find a polished/silver rear mech. I tried and failed 
Went with a deore which are black and silver.


----------



## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

BTW this is the 7700 series I'm referring to


----------



## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

Dura Ace is too posh for this simple peasant.


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Dura Ace is too posh for this simple peasant.


He's planning on fitting DA downtube shifters (Shiny Aluminium )


----------



## Nigelnightmare (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Shimano released a series of rear mechs that had an extra hinged plate which places the top jockey wheel lower in order to clear the sprockets of these huge cassettes (36t upwards) now common.
> For some stupid reason they neglected to fit barrel adjusters to them. Probably because most modern shifters have adjusters built into them.



FYI
The Shimano 'Alivio' shadow 9 speed rear derailleur DOES have a barrel adjuster.
I think that's the only one though.


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> He's planning on fitting DA downtube shifters (Shiny Aluminium )


Depends what my budget is at the time really, I like the look of both the Sunrace and DA DT shifters...

So cassette wise, you're saying 9-speed Shimano 7700?


----------



## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

Nigelnightmare said:


> FYI
> The Shimano 'Alivio' shadow 9 speed rear derailleur DOES have a barrel adjuster.
> I think that's the only one though.


I get away with a 105 gs (medium cage) but bottom is only 30 on the crank and 20 on the cassette crank is an Ultegra 53-42-30 in Silver.


----------



## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Depends what my budget is at the time really, I like the look of both the Sunrace and DA DT shifters...
> 
> So cassette wise, you're saying 9-speed Shimano 7700?


Best to stick to the same series unless like me you're an inveterate 'fettler' but the advantage with Shimano DT shifters (bar end too) is you can switch the indexing off and use them in friction mode.


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Best to stick to the same series unless like me you're an inveterate 'fettler' but the advantage with Shimano DT shifters (bar end too) is you can switch the indexing off and use them in friction mode.


Hmm, sounds good! What about the crankset then? I'm gonna replace that and get a new BB too

Apologies if someone already mentioned this or it sounds a daft question (still very new to this). I want to keep the triple crankset and I assume it'll be 9 speed too? What about teeth on it?


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Hmm, sounds good! What about the crankset then? I'm gonna replace that and get a new BB too
> 
> Apologies if someone already mentioned this or it sounds a daft question (still very new to this). I want to keep the triple crankset and I assume it'll be 9 speed too? What about teeth on it?


28, 38, 48 I think??


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

SJS Cycles







you may need a new BB


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## Vantage (1 Jul 2020)

This is one of those 'depends on' questions.
What rings do you currently have? Are you able to use them easily? Do you plan on using the bike for actual touring?
Most (I think) tourers are shipped with 28, 38, 48T chainsets. Some folk find that ok, others (like grumpy here) think that's stupidly big. 22, 32, 42 I think is the lowest you'll find. Unfortunately, finding the right chainset can be dependent on what type of BB you have. The big names (Shimano, SRAM etc) are mostly providing for newer BB designs (Octalink etc) and square tapers are a niche market. Here's where shops like Spa come in handy. You can piece together your own chainset.
I've limited experience in doing that so I'm unfamiliar with other BB types and chainsets, but being a shortar*e I opted for Spa's 165mm TD2 triple touring cranks and Spa's 24-34-46 rings. The 24t is the smallest that'll fit those cranks so I paired them with an 11-36 cassette. The Deore rear mech I have is listed as being able to handle a 34t sprocket but it's coping with the 36 just fine.
If you're just pootling to work and back or going on day rides then 28-38-48 might be ok for you.If you plan on loading everything but the kitchen sink for touring through Scotlands mountains then the lower the better.


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> This is one of those 'depends on' questions.
> What rings do you currently have? Are you able to use them easily? Do you plan on using the bike for actual touring?
> Most (I think) tourers are shipped with 28, 38, 48T chainsets. Some folk find that ok, others (like grumpy here) think that's stupidly big. 22, 32, 42 I think is the lowest you'll find. Unfortunately, finding the right chainset can be dependent on what type of BB you have. The big names (Shimano, SRAM etc) are mostly providing for newer BB designs (Octalink etc) and square tapers are a niche market. Here's where shops like Spa come in handy. You can piece together your own chainset.
> I've limited experience in doing that so I'm unfamiliar with other BB types and chainsets, but being a shortar*e I opted for Spa's 165mm TD2 triple touring cranks and Spa's 24-34-46 rings. The 24t is the smallest that'll fit those cranks so I paired them with an 11-36 cassette. The Deore rear mech I have is listed as being able to handle a 34t sprocket but it's coping with the 36 just fine.
> If you're just pootling to work and back or going on day rides then 28-38-48 might be ok for you.If you plan on loading everything but the kitchen sink for touring through Scotlands mountains then the lower the better.


I’m using 28/38/48T at the moment, they’re what came fitted to it. I’ll have to check what size mine is, I’m about 6ft.

so I could either swap out my current (worn) 28/38/48T for a new one of the same size or drop to a 24/34/46? And match with a 12/36 cassette?


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> SJS Cycles
> 
> View attachment 533550
> 
> ...


I need to dedicate a few hours this weekend to trawling SJS, Chain Reaction, ROSE & Spa Cycles and saving some parts that I could get


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I need to dedicate a few hours this weekend to trawling SJS, Chain Reaction, ROSE & Spa Cycles and saving some parts that I could get


Any reason why you can't change the rings on your original crankset.


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## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Any reason why you can't change the rings on your original crankset.


I haven't looked into that properly yet, it's an old suntour, kinda wanted to get a nice new one or a new Shimano crankset wasn't sure which.


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## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2020)

If you are after going Shimano (may prove simpler in the long run for fitting spare rings) Ryan I'd consider this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Ace...911681?hash=item4b79bc0241:g:Xw4AAOSwFxNeu93B

(note - I don't know that seller)

I wouldn't worry about the apparently humble Acera level - I've seen an acera chainset fitted to an expedition bike listed at £2,000 a few years ago.

Re @Vantage 's post above, for touring/loaded touring I'd really look at 44/32/22 or 42/32/22.

Alternative to above is a second hand Deore 510 crankset - there are a few around.

Both of those cranksets can use the justly fabled UN55 square taper BB.


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> If you are after going Shimano (may prove simpler in the long run for fitting spare rings) Ryan I'd consider this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Ace...911681?hash=item4b79bc0241:g:Xw4AAOSwFxNeu93B
> 
> ...


Yeah that’s what I was thinking too  I’ll compile a shortlist of ones I look at over the weekend and post here for everyone’s verdict.
As in my first post, I’m very much the beginner at this so am taking advice from you all, I’m so glad I started this thread because I wouldn’t have a clue where to start otherwise and would’ve splashed out and probably bought the wrong parts!


----------



## RyanOP (1 Jul 2020)

Here is the offender. Just goes to show you can dodge the piles of shattered glass but pick up a puncture off the near invisible shards


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## raleighnut (1 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Here is the offender. Just goes to show you can dodge the piles of shattered glass but pick up a puncture off the near invisible shards


Aye they get embedded and then the action of 'cyclic'pressure as the wheel rotates pushes em further in til psssst.


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## DCBassman (2 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Shimano released a series of rear mechs that had an extra hinged plate which places the top jockey wheel lower in order to clear the sprockets of these huge cassettes (36t upwards) now common.
> For some stupid reason they neglected to fit barrel adjusters to them. Probably because most modern shifters have adjusters built into them.


The Alivio RD-M4000 Shadow has a barrel adjuster exactly as normal...
It's not black.
But neither is it all shiny.
It's happy with 36t.
It's not too expensive!


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## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2020)

DCBassman said:


> The Alivio RD-M4000 Shadow has a barrel adjuster exactly as normal...
> It's not black.
> But neither is it all shiny.
> It's happy with 36t.
> It's not too expensive!


Some of the current alivio 9 speed stuff is i believe not too dissimilar from deore, at least the deore of not too long ago. Alivio is fine for a tourer.
On the shiny, shimano has in recent years moved to a more matte silver finish. It's all just finish.


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## Vantage (2 Jul 2020)

re Shadow barrel adjusters... 
I stand corrected


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## DCBassman (2 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> re Shadow barrel adjusters...
> I stand corrected


You may well be correct for the more advanced stuff, this one's a bit old as these things go!


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## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Aye they get embedded and then the action of 'cyclic'pressure as the wheel rotates pushes em further in til psssst.


I patched up but they were asda patches so have not held, just ordered a new tube to save myself the hassle


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I patched up but they were asda patches so have not held, just ordered a new tube to save myself the hassle


Did you 'roughen up' the tube and allow the glue/vulcanising solution to dry properly before applying the patch?


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## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Did you 'roughen up' the tube and allow the glue/vulcanising solution to dry properly before applying the patch?


Yep, followed instructions as I read up online, on the packet, and advice given by my father in law who even had a crack at it whilst I was at work. Left the solution 5-10 mins to dry first and then applied patch. Our verdict was bc it’s a cheap kit the patches couldn’t handle the pressure  I’m looking forward to the new tube coming though, it’s a continental and the reviews seem ok, if it works well I’ll order 2 more as spares


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## Blue Hills (3 Jul 2020)

Rema tip-top are top patches.


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Yep, followed instructions as I read up online, on the packet, and advice given by my father in law who even had a crack at it whilst I was at work. Left the solution 5-10 mins to dry first and then applied patch. Our verdict was bc it’s a cheap kit the patches couldn’t handle the pressure  I’m looking forward to the new tube coming though, it’s a continental and the reviews seem ok, if it works well I’ll order 2 more as spares


Once it's constrained by the tyre casing there isn't any pressure on the patch, I've got patched tubes in my wheels with stupid tyres (Continental Grand Prix Supersonic 700c x 20) that I need to run at near max pressure to avoid 'pinch flats' max is 170 PSI and yes my track pump will go that high with a bit of effort.


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Rema tip-top are top patches.


Thanks @raleighnut I’ll order some so I have them if/when required


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## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Once it's constrained by the tyre casing there isn't any pressure on the patch, I've got patched tubes in my wheels with stupid tyres (Continental Grand Prix Supersonic 700c x 20) that I need to run at near max pressure to avoid 'pinch flats' max is 170 PSI and yes my track pump will go that high with a bit of effort.


No idea then, got a new tube anyway so I’ll get that fitted this weekend or Monday whenever it arrives.

My father in law was telling me that I shouldn’t be pumping up to max? The tyre wall says to pump to 85psi max, I was usually around 80ish (I only have a small portable pump at the moment) and didn’t have any problems until my puncture and there’s plenty of uneven bits of tarmac etc that I’ve ridden over recently with no problems.

I’ve read up online it’s ok but he’s saying he never does to avoid blowouts. Who do I believe?


----------



## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> No idea then, got a new tube anyway so I’ll get that fitted this weekend or Monday whenever it arrives.
> 
> My father in law was telling me that I shouldn’t be pumping up to max? The tyre wall says to pump to 85psi max, I was usually around 80ish (I only have a small portable pump at the moment) and didn’t have any problems until my puncture and there’s plenty of uneven bits of tarmac etc that I’ve ridden over recently with no problems.
> 
> I’ve read up online it’s ok but he’s saying he never does to avoid blowouts. Who do I believe?


Tyre pressure is down to personal preference, tyre size and weight, there has been a change in rim design though to 'hooked' rims to cope with higher pressures. Older rims were straight sided on the inside and they don't grip the bead so cannot hold very high pressures.

If your tyre says 85 Max then 80 is plenty high enough and going by that Max I'd say a 32mm tyre.


----------



## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Tyre pressure is down to personal preference, tyre size and weight, there has been a change in rim design though to 'hooked' rims to cope with higher pressures. Older rims were straight sided on the inside and they don't grip the bead so cannot hold very high pressures.
> 
> If your tyre says 85 Max then 80 is plenty high enough and going by that Max I'd say a 32mm tyre.



I'd use this as a guide with a note that both tyres support the weight with a roughly 55% rear 45% front weight distribution


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Tyre pressure is down to personal preference, tyre size and weight, there has been a change in rim design though to 'hooked' rims to cope with higher pressures. Older rims were straight sided on the inside and they don't grip the bead so cannot hold very high pressures.
> 
> If your tyre says 85 Max then 80 is plenty high enough and going by that Max I'd say a 32mm tyre.


I noticed this on the rim when looking at it, this is the Dutch sizing right?


----------



## Gunk (3 Jul 2020)

If you're not too big a chap  drop them to about 65 psi these old steel frames then just waft along.


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I noticed this on the rim when looking at it, this is the Dutch sizing right?


Nah that's the ERTO size 19x622 for the rim the tyre size is 700c but the Dutch would say it was a 28" tyre (despite that being a smaller wheel the a 27" British rim)

26" is the worst though, there are 5-6 different size wheels all quoted as a 26" tyre.


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

Gunk said:


> If you're not too big a chap  drop them to about 65 psi these old steel frames then just waft along.


14 and a half stone because of lockdown, currently trying to get down to 13st. region hah!


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Nah that's the ERTO size 19x622 for the rim the tyre size is 700c but the Dutch would say it was a 28" tyre (despite that being a smaller wheel the a 27" British rim)
> 
> 26" is the worst though, there are 5-6 different size wheels all quoted as a 26" tyre.


Looking up the branding I've managed to find out that they are Rigida rims (now Ryde) Zac 2000's - it said https://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/ are distributors but I can't find anyone selling them. Worth knowing if I fancy replacing like for like


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Looking up the branding I've managed to find out that they are Rigida rims (now Ryde) Zac 2000's - it said https://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/ are distributors but I can't find anyone selling them. Worth knowing if I fancy replacing like for like


Perhaps these aren't too dissimilar? 
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s116p66/RIGIDA-Chrina


----------



## Gunk (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> 14 and a half stone because of lockdown, currently trying to get down to 13st. region hah!



100 psi then!


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

Gunk said:


> 100 psi then!


That'll give me good workout on the pump! Already an effort getting to 80


----------



## Vantage (3 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Perhaps these aren't too dissimilar?
> https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s116p66/RIGIDA-Chrina



Nope. Chrina's are more suited to skinny tyres on lighter weight bikes. 
Your Landcruisers would technically fit but they'd bulge heavily at the sides and the bike would handle horribly as a result. 
Ryde Sputniks are better suited to your bike but they're probably overkill in the strength stakes. I use them myself and I've no complaints but they're heavy buggers. 
I'm just over 10 stone and run my landcruisers at around 30psi and even that is a little hard at times. Best way to find your ideal pressure is pump the tyres up nice and hard and then keep lowering the pressure till you find a nice compromise between comfort and ease of pedalling.


----------



## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Nope. Chrina's are more suited to skinny tyres on lighter weight bikes.
> Your Landcruisers would technically fit but they'd bulge heavily at the sides and the bike would handle horribly as a result.
> Ryde Sputniks are better suited to your bike but they're probably overkill in the strength stakes. I use them myself and I've no complaints but they're heavy buggers.
> I'm just over 10 stone and run my landcruisers at around 30psi and even that is a little hard at times. Best way to find your ideal pressure is pump the tyres up nice and hard and then keep lowering the pressure till you find a nice compromise between comfort and ease of pedalling.


They're wider at 20mm than the ones fitted 19mm, it's a touring bike not an MTB.


----------



## RyanOP (3 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Nope. Chrina's are more suited to skinny tyres on lighter weight bikes.
> Your Landcruisers would technically fit but they'd bulge heavily at the sides and the bike would handle horribly as a result.
> Ryde Sputniks are better suited to your bike but they're probably overkill in the strength stakes. I use them myself and I've no complaints but they're heavy buggers.
> I'm just over 10 stone and run my landcruisers at around 30psi and even that is a little hard at times. Best way to find your ideal pressure is pump the tyres up nice and hard and then keep lowering the pressure till you find a nice compromise between comfort and ease of pedalling.


Thanks Vantage, I’ll try that  Thanks @raleighnut too, big difference 1mm makes?! Speaking of MTB’s, I want one of them too, but not yet, gotta wrap me head round this and then I’ll probably end up buying a brand new MTB for doing the odd few trails, there’s a decent little track near me that was built by council but is now abandoned, still gets used like.


----------



## Vantage (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> They're wider at 20mm than the ones fitted 19mm, it's a touring bike not an MTB.



Eh?


----------



## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Eh?


Have a look at the spec for those Rigida rims he linked to,

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m10b0s116p66/RIGIDA-Chrina

They ain't 'skinny uns' rather a dual eyeletted 'light touring' rim.


----------



## Vantage (3 Jul 2020)

Yep, too thin for 700 X 38c landcruisers. 
I imagine the vbrake mount spacing would be too wide for those rims too.


----------



## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Yep, too thin for 700 X 38c landcruisers.
> I imagine the vbrake mount spacing would be too wide for those rims too.








These are the rims that he has at present, are you just having a laugh or being an idiot


----------



## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Yep, too thin for 700 X 38c landcruisers.
> I imagine the vbrake mount spacing would be too wide for those rims too.



View attachment 534044

These are the rims that he has at present, are you just having a laugh or being an idiot or is he with 38's on a touring bike


----------



## Vantage (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> are you just having a laugh or being an idiot



There's no need for that. 
I missed the picture Ryan posted of his rim and just went off that he said they were zac 2000's. Looked up those rims and the sizes stated that they were 19mm internal. Unless I read it wrong. 
But yep, Ryan has 38c landcruisers fitted.


----------



## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> There's no need for that.
> I missed the picture Ryan posted of his rim and just went off that he said they were zac 2000's. Looked up those rims and the sizes stated that they were 19mm internal. Unless I read it wrong.
> But yep, Ryan has 38c landcruisers fitted.


Yep sorry bout that, it just got to me that he was thinking about wider rims (from the 19s on the bike) I really don't know who would fit 38s on a classic tourer though, 28s top although I've seen em with 32s fitted


----------



## Blue Hills (4 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Looking up the branding I've managed to find out that they are Rigida rims (now Ryde) Zac 2000's - it said https://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/ are distributors but I can't find anyone selling them. Worth knowing if I fancy replacing like for like


You can buy Zac 2000 rims (current ones - no idea if there have been changes) at Taylor Wheels - despite the name they are german.
https://www.taylor-wheels.com/
They also do complete builds with Zac 2000s.
I bought a pair of Zac19 complete wheels from Taylor wheels with quality Deore hubs.
Came out at about £100.
Good company - I can recommend them.
A pity that despite their varying builds they never seem to use Sputnik rims. No idea why not.
I agree with your idea of buying wheels where, if you like the set-up, hubs and rims, you can just replace the rims when needed - I have the idea that many folk just chuck the lot when the rims wear through or run the hubs into the ground without maintaining them.


----------



## Survivor Bikes (4 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Looks like I'll be spending this month cleaning up the existing parts I intend to keep as I've been paid but bloody bills have scuppered my hopes of getting some new parts in!


I know that feeling shipmate! If you use a metal polish with a sealing ingredient, like Autosol for example, you’ll get a good few seasons out of the existing steel components. I use an industrial product, but my classic car buddies swear by Autosol.


----------



## RyanOP (28 Jul 2020)

Hi everyone, thread (and life) update... this project is going to be put to the side and worked on when I have the spare cash and time - the reason being a much larger project has come up. 
Somehow, my girlfriend & I as first time buyers have managed to get a house during these strange times. It is need of some modernisation but was a steal!

I don't suppose anyone knows of any decent house renovation/modernisation forums?!


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## Vantage (28 Jul 2020)

No, but keep the chain clean and oiled.


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## Blue Hills (28 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Hi everyone, thread (and life) update... this project is going to be put to the side and worked on when I have the spare cash and time - the reason being a much larger project has come up.
> Somehow, my girlfriend & I as first time buyers have managed to get a house during these strange times. It is need of some modernisation but was a steal!
> 
> I don't suppose anyone knows of any decent house renovation/modernisation forums?!


afraid not - congratulations.


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## Kempstonian (28 Jul 2020)

Another site worth taking a look at for parts is bankruptbikeparts.co.uk

Also you mentioned a bike repair stand? Well this isn't a stand (its a lot cheaper) but take a look... might be worth considering if you do your repairs in the garage maybe? I have a similar one myself. One advantage is that you don't have any support legs to trip over!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PedalPro...029286&hash=item521a4b10f6:g:2JwAAOSw7tNcm7R2


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## RyanOP (29 Jul 2020)

Kempstonian said:


> Another site worth taking a look at for parts is bankruptbikeparts.co.uk
> 
> Also you mentioned a bike repair stand? Well this isn't a stand (its a lot cheaper) but take a look... might be worth considering if you do your repairs in the garage maybe? I have a similar one myself. One advantage is that you don't have any support legs to trip over!
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PedalPro...029286&hash=item521a4b10f6:g:2JwAAOSw7tNcm7R2


Thanks Kempstonian! 
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to use the wall-mounted stand


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## RyanOP (30 Jul 2020)

What tyres tubes does everyone use/recommend? 
I mentioned before I've been using Schwalbe Land Cruisers and am now using Continental tubes 
(https://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-quality-road-inner-tube?sku=5360054064)

I went for a ride yesterday and went down a light gravel track and came up with (at first thought) a puncture, but then thought it might have been where the tube burst due to a pothole or uneven ground? The track is full of them as well as a few larger stones within said potholes and scattered around.

Luckily the track ended at my destination so I could repair it in the garage there.

It got me thinking, could I run better tyres and tubes that can hold up against punctures and bursts better?


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## Vantage (30 Jul 2020)

I don't think you'll see much difference in tube manufacturers tbh. 
You could run on Schwalbe Marathons for better puncture protection but they come at the cost of harsher ride quality according to numerous reports. 
You might just have had a bit of bad luck. 
I've been running lightweight slick tyres for the best part of 1000 miles on various surfaces (road/trail) and not had a single flat yet. The very exact same tyres I ran on a different bike previously and swore the bloody things were cursed as I had that many punctures. 
It's luck of the draw mostly.


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## RyanOP (30 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> I don't think you'll see much difference in tube manufacturers tbh.
> You could run on Schwalbe Marathons for better puncture protection but they come at the cost of harsher ride quality according to numerous reports.
> You might just have had a bit of bad luck.
> I've been running lightweight slick tyres for the best part of 1000 miles on various surfaces (road/trail) and not had a single flat yet. The very exact same tyres I ran on a different bike previously and swore the bloody things were cursed as I had that many punctures.
> It's luck of the draw mostly.


Might just get the Marathons, it's niggling me enough already that I can only buy parts now and then, let alone having to repair punctures/buy new tubes. On my second set of tubes in less than 3 weeks 

Although, I bought a parktool puncture repair kit and it's held up really well


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## Vantage (30 Jul 2020)

There's a bunch of different model marathons with varying puncture protectiveness (is that even a word?) 
Someone more knowledgeable than I will likely be along to explain the differences.


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## RyanOP (30 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> There's a bunch of different model marathons with varying puncture protectiveness (is that even a word?)
> Someone more knowledgeable than I will likely be along to explain the differences.


Looking at schwalbe’s website, they describe them as having less or more puncture resistance. Marathon plus tours are described as “flat-less”


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## RyanOP (31 Jul 2020)

So it turns out there was a tiny piece of glass wedged in my tyre, unseen to the naked eye looking at the tyre. Also couldn't be felt when running fingers inside the tyre.

When I stretched the tyre a little around where there was a small nick, there it was just chilling waiting to puncture another tube.

Removed with a pair of tweezers and it was about the size of a grain of rice...

Hopefully no more punctures!


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## RyanOP (31 Jul 2020)

I've also purchased a cassette and tools to change it over - next items to buy next month will be RD (Shimano Alivio 9spd) and maybe a new crankset from Spa  figured out finances last night and I'm sure I can squeeze a few bits in


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## Vantage (31 Jul 2020)

RyanOP said:


> So it turns out there was a tiny piece of glass wedged in my tyre, unseen to the naked eye looking at the tyre.



It was one of those little bar stewards that lead me to believe my tyres were cursed! 
They're evil!


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## RyanOP (31 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> It was one of those little bar stewards that lead me to believe my tyres were cursed!
> They're evil!


I wasn't far off contemplating if this project is worth it if I have to repair my tube every week or buy new ones every 2! Thank god I found that spec of glass


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## Vantage (31 Jul 2020)

Regarding inner tubes... 
They only need replacing in extreme circumstances. Like a ripped off valve, huge gash or when changing to different sized tyres. 
You can almost fit an endless supply of patches on a tube before it becomes a liability. 
No need to replace 'em over a couple dinky little holes


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## RyanOP (31 Jul 2020)

Vantage said:


> Regarding inner tubes...
> They only need replacing in extreme circumstances. Like a ripped off valve, huge gash or when changing to different sized tyres.
> You can almost fit an endless supply of patches on a tube before it becomes a liability.
> No need to replace 'em over a couple dinky little holes


Now that I've got some decent patches that's what I've been doing, the ones I had from Asda were terrible and I lazily just bought new tubes instead of a better repair kit


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

I'm looking about at RD's and trying to figure out what cage I need, I believe @raleighnut touched on that briefly.

I had a fiddle with my RD (Shimano Acera) to try and index the gears somewhat and gain at least one other gear. 

I realised that even after fully loosening and tightening the limiter screws, I could only push the RD about halfway across the cassette. Is this because the RD is knackered or it's the wrong cage?

I want to make sure I'm buying the right RD, I've seen that you need to do a sum and the example was if your drivetrain has a 44-22 chainring on the front and a 32-11 cassette on the rear, then...
[44-22] + [32-11] = 43 and thats how you figure out what cage you need.

My new cassette is 11-30 (tell me if this is ok or if I should reconsider) and I believe my chainrings on the front are 28t, 38t, 48t - again I remember someone mentioning this somewhere along the thread


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I'm looking about at RD's and trying to figure out what cage I need, I believe @raleighnut touched on that briefly.
> 
> I had a fiddle with my RD (Shimano Acera) to try and index the gears somewhat and gain at least one other gear.
> 
> ...


So my DT capacity should be 39...


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## Vantage (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I realised that even after fully loosening and tightening the limiter screws, I could only push the RD about halfway across the cassette. Is this because the RD is knackered or it's the wrong cage?



What do you mean "push"? As in manually with your hand or using the shifter? 

Acera should work perfectly well with your set up. Used one myself for a few years and had no issues. 
I can't say I've ever measured or numbered up anything relating to gearing, but then again I've always stuck with MTB type rear dérailleurs and they work with pretty much everything.


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

Vantage said:


> What do you mean "push"? As in manually with your hand or using the shifter?
> 
> Acera should work perfectly well with your set up. Used one myself for a few years and had no issues.
> I can't say I've ever measured or numbered up anything relating to gearing, but then again I've always stuck with MTB type rear dérailleurs and they work with pretty much everything.


Both, it just won't go any further than the middle...

I ran the photo of my RD through google lens and it told me it was an Acera M360 7/8 Speed. Maybe that's why? 

I'm going to have another look tonight. Not keen on putting on a brand new cassette with everything else as is though. It's so shiny!


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## raleighnut (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Both, it just won't go any further than the middle...
> 
> I ran the photo of my RD through google lens and it told me it was an Acera M360 7/8 Speed. Maybe that's why?
> 
> I'm going to have another look tonight. Not keen on putting on a brand new cassette with everything else as is though. It's so shiny!


Take the limit screws out then try pushing the mech across by hand*, will it now achieve full travel. an Acera should cope with that range of cassette/chainrings as AFAIK Shimano only make them in long cage.

* don't lose them as they'll need to go back in *before* you ride the bike.


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Take the limit screws out then try pushing the mech across by hand*, will it now achieve full travel. an Acera should cope with that range of cassette/chainrings as AFAIK Shimano only make them in long cage.
> 
> * don't lose them as they'll need to go back in *before* you ride the bike.


I'll try that later and let you know! It is an _old _Acera though... Not sure what year.

& I've been having a look online and it seems they do SS (Short Cage), GS (Medium Cage) and SGS (Long Cage)


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## raleighnut (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I'll try that later and let you know! It is an _old _Acera though... Not sure what year.
> 
> & I've been having a look online and it seems they do SS (Short Cage), GS (Medium Cage) and SGS (Long Cage)


Yep Shimano make those 3 lengths of rear derailleur but not all models are available with different lengths, some models are specific to different uses or different 'types' of bike, I've never seen 105 in SGS but they're available in SS and GS likewise Ultegra.


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Yep Shimano make those 3 lengths of rear derailleur but not all models are available with different lengths, some models are specific to different uses or different 'types' of bike, I've never seen 105 in SGS but they're available in SS and GS likewise Ultegra.


Yeah, that's what I've also seen, can't seem to find a Sora in SGS but I haven't looked too hard today.


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## raleighnut (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> Yeah, that's what I've also seen, can't seem to find a Sora in SGS but I haven't looked too hard today.


That'll be why they fitted an Acera.


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> That'll be why they fitted an Acera.


I've seen Alivio, Altus, and Acera so far. I just think the current Acera is a Medium or Short Cage but I will find out tonight


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## raleighnut (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I've seen Alivio, Altus, and Acera so far. I just think the current Acera is a Medium or Short Cage but I will find out tonight


The product code should tell you, it'll be printed/stamped on there somewhere.


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## Vantage (4 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I'll try that later and let you know! It is an _old _Acera though... Not sure what year.
> 
> & I've been having a look online and it seems they do SS (Short Cage), GS (Medium Cage) and SGS (Long Cage)



Aaaaah, did not know that 
I thought the cage length differences thing only happened with higher end road mechs!


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## raleighnut (4 Aug 2020)

Vantage said:


> Aaaaah, did not know that
> I thought the cage length differences thing only happened with higher end road mechs!


My thinking too.


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## RyanOP (4 Aug 2020)

Right, so I took out the limiter screws and was able to move the RD across to the second largest ring.
I think I found the actual problem, by tightening the cable with the barrel adjusters on the downtube and RD.

Put the limiter screws back in and adjusted them accordingly and wahlah I was able to change up and down gear relatively easily and to gears that I previously couldn’t get to. The only one I can’t use is the largest ring on the cassette. I’ve only tested this on my work stand so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow morning to see how it copes on the road...


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## RyanOP (5 Aug 2020)

Tried out the gears this morning.
I can use the highest gear on my cassette and the two lowest gears but not the ones in between.
I have a feeling that’s where the damaged rings are on the cassette.
but that’s okay because I have my new one and for the time being I can use a lower gear for any hills or to make pedalling a bit easier in the wind.


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## RyanOP (5 Aug 2020)

Got some degreaser arriving tomorrow which I want to use just to clean up my drivetrain a bit more.

I know I need to order a new chain for my new cassette, is it necessary to wait until I have a new crank & chain rings until fitting cassette & chain? Or can I fit my new cassette and chain but keep the old front chainrings for now?


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## Vantage (5 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I can use the highest gear on my cassette and the two lowest gears but not the ones in between.



That's a new one on me 




RyanOP said:


> Or can I fit my new cassette and chain but keep the old front chainrings for now?



Give it a whirl. The worst that'll happen is the chain could slip on the old rings but it's unlikely. That takes some serious wear.


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## raleighnut (5 Aug 2020)

Vantage said:


> That's a new one on me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nah it's common for the most used teeth on the back to refuse to play nicely with a new chain so if someone rode in the middle of the cassette a lot then they're the ones that'll slip.

Oh and you're right about the Chainrings at the front, they should be OK unless they're really badly worn oh and fitting a new chain on old chainrings won't damage the chain.


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## Vantage (5 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> nah it's common for the most used teeth on the back to refuse to play nicely with a new chain so if someone rode in the middle of the cassette a lot then they're the ones that'll slip.



Oh I've had slippage on the back plenty of times so that's not new to me. 
My mind went into overdrive at Ryan's description and figured the chain was plain refusing to engage with the in between cogs. Images of bent teeth etc. Even though he said nothing of the sort. 
I'm tired. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.


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## DCBassman (5 Aug 2020)

@RyanOP , I read earlier in the thread about you seeing worn teeth on the chainrings. there are some teeth, evenly spaced around the rings, that look different to the rest, this is part of the shifting system. If you find that they are all at 90 degrees to each other, then that's not wear, but normality!
Of course, they could all be worn as well...


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## RyanOP (5 Aug 2020)

DCBassman said:


> @RyanOP , I read earlier in the thread about you seeing worn teeth on the chainrings. there are some teeth, evenly spaced around the rings, that look different to the rest, this is part of the shifting system. If you find that they are all at 90 degrees to each other, then that's not wear, but normality!
> Of course, they could all be worn as well...


I think it's only two teeth on the largest front chainring from memory but I'll have a look again.

Now that I can remove and clean my old cassette I might get a clearer look at it and find out what the problem is, be interesting to know in case I ever have the same problem in future.

@Vantage @raleighnut I'll have to check the new chain method next month, stretched my monthly part budget already!


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## Scotstounman (5 Aug 2020)

@RyanOP, I’ve just been reading this thread with interest. I’ve just completed a rebuild of a circa 1994 Dawes Super Galaxy and came across a number of the issues your’e experiencing. The starting point for me was a frameset with handlebars and seat post. I had some nice wheels with Mavic rims on Campy hubs of similar vintage. The old-school threaded rear hub limited my freelwheel to max 7 gears,14-28T and the chain set I fitted is the Stronglight Impact 28-38-48 pictured earlier in the thread. I decided to opt for bar end shifters (Dia Compe) as I have always wanted to try these and I don’t need to worry about indexing of the derailleurs. In my case I moved away from the original canti brakes to Tektro mini Vee brakes which was a low cost change and has improved the braking. They fit on the existing brazed on posts.

The frame paint was in a poor state when it arrived so I got it blasted and painted in a paint shop in Edinburgh. The paint job was very good, but the colour is a bit of a departure from the original rather somber grey.

The Horizon you are refurbishing is a more modern machine than mine, but I think a number of the issues you are wrestling with are similar to those I’ve come across. I attach a picture of the finished article - now a very useable tourer.


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## raleighnut (5 Aug 2020)

Scotstounman said:


> @RyanOP, I’ve just been reading this thread with interest. I’ve just completed a rebuild of a circa 1994 Dawes Super Galaxy and came across a number of the issues your’e experiencing. The starting point for me was a frameset with handlebars and seat post. I had some nice wheels with Mavic rims on Campy hubs of similar vintage. The old-school threaded rear hub limited my freelwheel to max 7 gears,14-28T and the chain set I fitted is the Stronglight Impact 28-38-48 pictured earlier in the thread. I decided to opt for bar end shifters (Dia Compe) as I have always wanted to try these and I don’t need to worry about indexing of the derailleurs. In my case I moved away from the original canti brakes to Tektro mini Vee brakes which was a low cost change and has improved the braking. They fit on the existing brazed on posts.
> 
> The frame paint was in a poor state when it arrived so I got it blasted and painted in a paint shop in Edinburgh. The paint job was very good, but the colour is a bit of a departure from the original rather somber grey.
> 
> The Horizon you are refurbishing is a more modern machine than mine, but I think a number of the issues you are wrestling with are similar to those I’ve come across. I attach a picture of the finished article - now a very useable tourer.


Very Nice


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## RyanOP (6 Aug 2020)

Scotstounman said:


> @RyanOP, I’ve just been reading this thread with interest. I’ve just completed a rebuild of a circa 1994 Dawes Super Galaxy and came across a number of the issues your’e experiencing. The starting point for me was a frameset with handlebars and seat post. I had some nice wheels with Mavic rims on Campy hubs of similar vintage. The old-school threaded rear hub limited my freelwheel to max 7 gears,14-28T and the chain set I fitted is the Stronglight Impact 28-38-48 pictured earlier in the thread. I decided to opt for bar end shifters (Dia Compe) as I have always wanted to try these and I don’t need to worry about indexing of the derailleurs. In my case I moved away from the original canti brakes to Tektro mini Vee brakes which was a low cost change and has improved the braking. They fit on the existing brazed on posts.
> 
> The frame paint was in a poor state when it arrived so I got it blasted and painted in a paint shop in Edinburgh. The paint job was very good, but the colour is a bit of a departure from the original rather somber grey.
> 
> The Horizon you are refurbishing is a more modern machine than mine, but I think a number of the issues you are wrestling with are similar to those I’ve come across. I attach a picture of the finished article - now a very useable tourer.


Hi @Scotstounman and welcome to the thread! Thanks for your interest and sharing this info  

She is a beauty! Do you have a pic of before so we can appreciate even further the work you've done? 

I'm yet to fully look at my hubs and BB - I'm going off what I've seen online and what others have said in here that my hubs are Shimano freewheels and my BB is probably a square taper. Just did a quick backpedal check and I'm sure mine are freehubs.

Which mini v brakes did you get? Looks like they give good clearance for your guards and if they work well for stopping then that's what I need, was looking at Canti's yesterday and didn't know where to start and they do puzzle my amateur cycle maintenance brain a bit! 

Also, do you mind if I ask how much your frame blast and paint job set you back? I've been having a look around my area (Hull) and it seems to be around £300 to £450 for the full job including design etc. - Mine looks like it has a plastic coating? When I pick at existing chips and patches where a 2-3cm area of paint has come off it's more like peeling hard plastic packaging than paint, and the colour underneath is black? 
A friend said I would have to get it blasted as paint remover wouldn't work. He also suggested using a friend of his who has a paint stripper bath, I don't know how I feel about my frame being dipped in chemicals that strip paint though


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## Scotstounman (6 Aug 2020)

@RyanOP,
I attach a picture of the frame and forks before repainting. The original colour was grey, but it had been over painted with a dark metallic green, rather badly and needed a full repaint.
The repaint cost 90 pounds at Henderson’s metal cleaning, including grit blast, primer and two pack finish. It’s a proper paint job, not a powder coat and looks very good. This is the fourth frame I’ve had done there. The decals I added afterwards and then lacquered over these to protect them.

The brakes are Tektro 926AL Mini V-Brake, Black, 80mm Arm Length and were 11.99 from Chain reaction for each pair. I got a guide pipe (noodle) with adjuster for each also for 2.00 each from SJS. The levers are Tektro RL520s at 16.99 a pair from SJS. 

I replaced the BB with the Shimano UN55 square taper - fit and forget from SJS for 11.99.

Hope that all helps.


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## Scotstounman (6 Aug 2020)

Sorry here’s the photo of the frame pre-repaint


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## RyanOP (7 Aug 2020)

Scotstounman said:


> @RyanOP,
> I attach a picture of the frame and forks before repainting. The original colour was grey, but it had been over painted with a dark metallic green, rather badly and needed a full repaint.
> The repaint cost 90 pounds at Henderson’s metal cleaning, including grit blast, primer and two pack finish. It’s a proper paint job, not a powder coat and looks very good. This is the fourth frame I’ve had done there. The decals I added afterwards and then lacquered over these to protect them.
> 
> ...


Very helpful indeed! What size wheel/tyres are you using? I noticed a review for the mini v's tha said clearance was good on 32mm but may be tight on 38's (which I'm using) also factoring in mudguards... Reckon they'd still fit mine?

Everything else sounds spot on, just need to figure out which size and thread BB I need now!

That sounds like a very reasonable price, and that I need to do some more looking around for places that'd do the job at a similar price.

Although it's going to be a while yet until I get my paint job done, I can't help myself but daydream of what colour scheme/pattern I might go for... Any suggestions?
I really like @Vantage 's Dawes Vantage from earlier in the thread in a dark red/burgundy colour. But then part of me wants to add some fat horizontal stripes on the seat tube...


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## RyanOP (7 Aug 2020)

Looks like I'll end up going to East Coast Powder Coatings in Hull, can't see their prices but based on reviews they are well priced.


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## Scotstounman (7 Aug 2020)

@RyanOP,
I’m using 700c x 28s, the tyres are Schwalbe Marathons. There isn’t a lot of room but I think I could fit 700c x 32s , but not 38s. The rims are Mavic 3CDs, there’s not a lot of room between the rims and the inner face of the forks for the brake pads, but enough. I dont think you’ll ha a problem with the rims describe earlier in the thread. I attach a close-up picture of the front brakes. You can see I have fitted mudguards - SKS Bluemel hybrid size, and I think I’ll fit 32s underneath them. The brake cable might preclude bigger mudguards.




The BB for the Galaxy is UN55 with 68mm shell width with English threads and a spindle length of 110mm, which suits the triple crankset.

The paint job on the Galaxy is a simple single colour, without metallics or other additives. These would have increased the job cost.

Powder coating is less expensive but may provide less corrosion protection as there’s no primer coat, if the powder coat is damaged. One option would be to get the main colour done in a paint shop then add any other colours (banding) yourself - not something I have any experience of I’m afraid.

I hope you manage to find a local paint shop in Hull. I lived there in 2018-19 but didn’t come across one locally.


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## Vantage (7 Aug 2020)

RyanOP said:


> I really like @Vantage 's Dawes Vantage from earlier in the thread in a dark red/burgundy colour. But then part of me wants to add some fat horizontal stripes on the seat tube...



I miss that colour. It got alot of nice comments from everyone around. I'm thinking I might get the current Wayfarer redone that colour or variant of it when it's due. Saw a Mazda something or other that had an absolutely gorgeous shade of metallic red a couple days ago. Wish I'd stopped and asked the owner about it!


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## Jenkins (7 Aug 2020)

Vantage said:


> I miss that colour. It got alot of nice comments from everyone around. I'm thinking I might get the current Wayfarer redone that colour or variant of it when it's due. Saw a Mazda something or other that had an absolutely gorgeous shade of metallic red a couple days ago. Wish I'd stopped and asked the owner about it!


That's probably what Mazda call Soul Red Crystal.


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## Vantage (7 Aug 2020)

Jenkins said:


> That's probably what Mazda call Soul Red Crystal.



That's the one! Thanks!


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## raleighnut (8 Aug 2020)

Scotstounman said:


> @RyanOP,
> I’m using 700c x 28s, the tyres are Schwalbe Marathons. There isn’t a lot of room but I think I could fit 700c x 32s , but not 38s. The rims are Mavic 3CDs, there’s not a lot of room between the rims and the inner face of the forks for the brake pads, but enough. I dont think you’ll ha a problem with the rims describe earlier in the thread. I attach a close-up picture of the front brakes. You can see I have fitted mudguards - SKS Bluemel hybrid size, and I think I’ll fit 32s underneath them. The brake cable might preclude bigger mudguards.
> View attachment 540336
> 
> ...


I think 28s are plenty on a road touring bike, I use em on the Ridgeback and 25s on the Raleigh 'light tourer' but then I also have the option of the Raleigh 'Outlander' set up as a heavy tourer/adventure bike with 1.85" Scwalbe 'Landcruisers' if I going on farm tracks etc.


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## RyanOP (10 Aug 2020)

Got the degreaser out on Sunday morning, now I can actually read the letters & numbers on my cassette and it’s exactly the same as the new one I’ve bought! Looks decent for now and will suffice until I put the shiny one on 

Look at the state of that RD though that’s as clean as I could get it until my hand cramped up from scrubbing...


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## Gunk (10 Aug 2020)

Its much easier to break the chain, get it off the bike and remove the jockey wheels. It is worth it, they come up like new.


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## RyanOP (26 Aug 2020)

Hello everyone, hope you're all doing good!

I'm getting paid this Friday and I am in urgent need of new brakes as I have given up on fettling with them. The front right pad rubs on the rim as I ride, but it means I can actually brake when I need to. If I adjust even slightly to stop the pad from rubbing, I then cannot brake at all. I've tried adjusting the pads using a very helpful (as always) parktool video but still no joy.

But alas, they are Tektro Oryx's so I planned on getting rid anyway... I know that @Scotstounman mentioned the mini v brakes but, I quite like the look of canti's and if I can get a better set would probably stick to them.

My concern is getting the right brakes for my wheel size and allowing for clearance for my mudguards (when I get them) and also that will match up to a new set of brake levers that I'll get when I change over to DT shifters. I read that some brakes don't work with certain levers?

I'll have a flick back through the thread later (I'm supposed to be working right now!) as I'm sure someone has mentioned how to get the right brakes before. If anyone has additional guidance they can give or web links/videos that would be great!

Not thread related - but my house seems to be all on track and I hope to have the keys in late Sept


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## Vantage (1 Sep 2020)

STOOOOOOOOOOP!!! 
Earlier in the thread I posted that I'd been using Sun Race down tube shifters and had no real issues with them. That wasn't to say I had no issues at all with them, just no serious ones. 
I must now apologise as the one little niggle I had with them was in fact (others may disagree) a big problem.
Whilst I could index the gears on a workstand, in the real world the gears would rarely line up perfectly and would sometimes shift up or down a gear while riding. Bloody annoying when climbing a 14% incline. 
Having splashed out on the £60 Dura Ace DT shifters I said were too posh for me I now have perfectly working indexed gears through the range. 
Do yourself a favour Ryan and do NOT buy the £25 SunRace shifters I previously recommended coz they're crap! The ratchet mechanism is sloppy as a jellyfishes arse. 

Regarding your current issue with brakes, I may be in a position to offer help. 
It just so happens that in my spares box, I have a pair of barely used Dia compe 287 V brake levers (tan hood's) and 2 pairs of barely used silver Alivio V brakes with pads that have plenty of life left in them. Yours for the price of postage if you're interested. (barely used as in about a years worth of cycling but looked after) but they'll need new cables.


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## RyanOP (2 Sep 2020)

Phew! Saved me a faff there @Vantage! I only ended up ordering a new tub of grease and some new gear cables in preparation. I was hovering my mouse over the 'order' button with the dt shifters and brakes in my basket but I decided to remove them and wait for a reply on here. I'm so glad I did!

That is very kind of you! Are you sure? I would be more than happy to pay something towards them on top of postage? Still gives me a saving which I can put in a pot for the Dura Ace's


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## Vantage (2 Sep 2020)

Nah its OK. Pm me your address and I'll get them sent off later in the week. 
I've had a few freebies from folk over the years and it's nice to 'pay it forward' as they say


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## RyanOP (12 Feb 2021)

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd bump this thread to make sure you all know this project is not forgotten!

I'm nearing the home stretch of my house reno which has been guzzling the £'s since September last year, hoping to get in for June I'd say 

I can't wait to get moved in and crack on with this project.

Hope you're all well and keeping sane!


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## raleighnut (12 Feb 2021)

RyanOP said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just thought I'd bump this thread to make sure you all know this project is not forgotten!
> 
> ...


My Raleigh 'City'3 speeder took 4 years to complete, then again I did shatter my Femur into 3 pieces whilst in the middle of converting it.


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## RyanOP (25 Jun 2021)

I started following my local paint shop ready for when I eventually get to repaint my Dawes - mostly cars & motorbikes which look nice but saw this the other day and… WOW.
Not sure it’d work on the Dawes though


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

So it begins...


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## Blue Hills (25 Mar 2022)

Glad to hear this - after 11 pages 

will scroll back through rest when a mo then follow avidly - have built up a few old bikes though never done a paint job.

(many new bikes leave me cold - just look at them and think "why"?)


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

All that's left is a very stuck seatpost 

Grabbing some various chemicals this weekend to try and wrench it free then it's off to get blasted & powder coated.

I'm thinking british racing green as I still have the tan hoods kindly gifted to me by @Vantage , which I will match with some nice brown or tan bar tape.
Or, go with the deep red as seen on @Vantage 's Dawes posted on the 1st page of this thread.

Any other colours please throw in some suggestions?!


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## Blue Hills (25 Mar 2022)

RyanOP said:


> All that's left is a very stuck seatpost
> 
> Grabbing some various chemicals this weekend to try and wrench it free then it's off to get blasted & powder coated.
> 
> ...


I'm for british racing green* - always been a fave - maybe under the influence of a childhood racing car set - good for freecamping as well - so speed and chilled associations all in one.

(no disrespect to vantage's choices)

* and that oddball shop Hobbycraft sells a modelpaint that is a close match for touch-ups.


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> I'm for british racing green* - always been a fave - maybe under the influence of a childhood racing car set - good for freecamping as well - so speed and chilled associations all in one.
> 
> (no disrespect to vantage's choices)
> 
> * and that oddball shop Hobbycraft sells a modelpaint that is a close match for touch-ups.


I quite like the colour of the current Aston Martin F1 Car - 00352F is the colour code, surely a powder coating company could order or make that colour?


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## Gunk (25 Mar 2022)

Stick the post in a vice and use the frame as leverage, I’ve never failed to remove one using this method


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

Gunk said:


> Stick the post in a vice and use the frame as leverage, I’ve never failed to remove one using this method


This is the plan for Sunday, the guy who owns the land where my girlfriends horse is stabled is a hydraulics engineer & has plenty of stuff in his garage/workshop I plan to make use of!


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## Cycleops (25 Mar 2022)

You need to be very careful using the above method with an aluminium frame, in fact I'd advise against it as likelihood of damage is very high.
You could try this:

"Warm the frame up with a hair dryer. Even though the post and frame are both Alum, you might get the frame to expand a little more since the tubing is thinner and will heat up quicker. You could also try icing the seatpost or use co2 and then warm the frame with a hair dryer. Also try CLR instead of WD40.24 Mar 2015"


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## Blue Hills (25 Mar 2022)

RyanOP said:


> I quite like the colour of the current Aston Martin F1 Car - 00352F is the colour code, surely a powder coating company could order or make that colour?


no idea - not my area of expertise - but will follow your progress with intererest, particularly if you do go for BRG.


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## Gunk (25 Mar 2022)

Cycleops said:


> You need to be very careful using the above method with an aluminium frame, in fact I'd advise against it as likelihood of damage is very high.
> You could try this:
> 
> "Warm the frame up with a hair dryer. Even though the post and frame are both Alum, you might get the frame to expand a little more since the tubing is thinner and will heat up quicker. You could also try icing the seatpost or use co2 and then warm the frame with a hair dryer. Also try CLR instead of WD40.24 Mar 2015"



I’ve done it with loads of ally frames, carefully tap the seat post first to break the seal (not too hard or you’ll loose it!) A heat gun or hairdryer is a good shout, although I’ve never needed to do that as they’ve always broken free.


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

Cycleops said:


> You need to be very careful using the above method with an aluminium frame, in fact I'd advise against it as likelihood of damage is very high.
> You could try this:
> 
> "Warm the frame up with a hair dryer. Even though the post and frame are both Alum, you might get the frame to expand a little more since the tubing is thinner and will heat up quicker. You could also try icing the seatpost or use co2 and then warm the frame with a hair dryer. Also try CLR instead of WD40.24 Mar 2015"


I'm almost certain I have a steel frame so should be ok! I do have a heat gun so will give that a go as well, I'll no doubt be trying many methods as it is very stuck and I've already cut it down a bit seeing as drilling a hole through, putting a bolt in & trying to hammer it out failed.

I've only been using WD-40 however - this worked on the BB but I'm going to need some more powerful penetrating oil to get this post out I reckon.


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> no idea - not my area of expertise - but will follow your progress with intererest, particularly if you do go for BRG.


I am leaning more towards the BRG I must admit...


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## T4tomo (25 Mar 2022)

I'd worry about getting the seatpost out of your STEEL frame before anything else.

Plusgas has bigger balls than WD40


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## RyanOP (25 Mar 2022)

T4tomo said:


> I'd worry about getting the seatpost out of your STEEL frame before anything else.
> 
> Plusgas has bigger balls than WD40


I hadn’t heard of plusgas before, I’ll see if I can get some.


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## Vantage (29 Mar 2022)

Have a look at the derailleur hanger. If it's bolt on your frame is alloy. The Dawes Vantage came about when the Horizon got a better steel frame. My Vantage had the same ovalized fatter down tube and it was alloy.


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## T4tomo (29 Mar 2022)

Vantage said:


> Have a look at the derailleur hanger. If it's bolt on your frame is alloy. The Dawes Vantage came about when the Horizon got a better steel frame. My Vantage had the same ovalized fatter down tube and it was alloy.


I reckon that this photo on page 1 from the OP suggests it steel


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## Vantage (29 Mar 2022)

Oops


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## RyanOP (5 Apr 2022)

This pains me greatly to post, but I cannot get the seat post out and I fear I have damaged the seat post clamp beyond repair so I may be unable to continue this project...


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## Vantage (8 Apr 2022)

If your seat post is alloy you could try caustic soda. Block any vent holes, bolt holes etc and then pout in a crap load of caustic soda then leave it. It'll eat through the alloy while not affecting the frame.


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## GeekDadZoid (8 Apr 2022)

RyanOP said:


> This pains me greatly to post, but I cannot get the seat post out and I fear I have damaged the seat post clamp beyond repair so I may be unable to continue this project...



😥 How frustrating, have you got pictures of the current status, some of the wise minds on here may be able to assist.

I hope it's not too far gone. Even if the worst has happened you have a good chunk of the parts for another project ready.

🤞


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