# Transmission/bearings wear out too fast these days...



## GaryA (13 Apr 2011)

Why are transmissions and bearings such rubbish quality? 
I'm confing myself to the stuff I've used shamano deore level stuff.
My 9 speeds wear our much quicker than my old 8 and that wore out quicker than the 7 speed.
I dont want a 10 speed transmission!
I know the thinner chains are less durabe but they only seem to stay in good shape for a few months
I maintain them well with decent lubrication 
Same with wheel bearings /freehubs they only seem to last a couple of years at most (6000)mls

My old racer used to last a decade between bearings with far greater mileage-in all weathers.


----------



## Makins (13 Apr 2011)

I'm finding that all my components seem to wear out too fast as well, on my old mountain bike I was replacing the freewheel and chain almost every six months! Then compared to my Dads old road bike (1950's I think) which has covered literally thousands of miles and hasn't had anything replaced since at least the 1980's! I guess the issue comes down to cheaper alloys and faster production techniques meaning more money for the company and lower quality parts for the rider


----------



## bauldbairn (13 Apr 2011)

GaryA said:


> Why are transmissions and bearings such rubbish quality?
> 
> My old racer used to last a decade between bearings with far greater mileage-in all weathers.



My old 1980 5 speed racer went nearly 10 years without replacing anything more major than a cotterpin or tyre. 
I cleaned the chain/mechs with parafin, meths and WD40 every year or so, oiled regularilly with "100 in 1" oil and cleaned the wheel bearing/cones and regreased every year or so.  

In those days most of the bikes were British and "built to last" now most are foreign and don't - like all our industries they didn't move with the times.  




Makins said:


> I guess the issue comes down to cheaper alloys and faster production techniques meaning more money for the company and lower quality parts for the rider



Probably - and making parts lighter, making them less durable too!!


----------



## Davidc (13 Apr 2011)

I shouldn't be here really, as I stick mostly to roads, but I am anyway.

Although the OP's proposition is probably true, IME the real cost of maintaining a bike hasn't changed much as a result, because the modern far-eastern parts are cheaper.

Bikes are also very much easier to maintain than they were, partly because of design changes, partly because manufacturing tolerances for the components are tighter, and partly because I've been doing it for longer.

My difficulty in comparing these consumables for longevity and costs is that I was very fit and very strong in my teens and twenties and so hammered components, whereas now I'm not so I don't.

I, like you, am quite happy with 8 speed stuff, mainly because I think it's a good compromise between ease of riding and component strength.


----------



## dellzeqq (14 Apr 2011)

GaryA said:


> Why are transmissions and bearings such rubbish quality?
> I'm confing myself to the stuff I've used shamano deore level stuff.
> My 9 speeds wear our much quicker than my old 8 and that wore out quicker than the 7 speed.
> I dont want a 10 speed transmission!
> ...


I've got a DuraAce freehub that's done 50,000 miles. Perhaps Deore is made of softer metal?


----------



## deaksie (14 Apr 2011)

yeah mine wear out far too fast too. I just put it down to the amount of riding/sheer idiocy of the conditions/I'm not exactly "gentle" with the bike. 

Apparently I need a new headset soon too - the bike's only 2 years old..............


----------



## Globalti (14 Apr 2011)

Are you really surprised that mountain bike components wear out fast? They are expected to work while lubricated by an abrasive sticky mix of mud and oil. Up here in the gritty Pennines parts wear out incredibly fast; I used to be changing my wheel rims every year when I had rim brakes. 

Actually this was one of the factors that began to put me off mountain biking. I was getting stale and tired of the expense and the whole MTB scene so road riding came along at the right moment.


----------



## deaksie (14 Apr 2011)

I've been told by my local bike shop to get the lube off the bike the second I get home, to stop it solidifying into that sticky, gritty mess. Time will tell but the logic is there. We'll see. Wouldn't give up messing about in the mud though


----------



## GilesM (15 Apr 2011)

I've had problems with Deore Hubs and I agree the 9 speed transmissions are not as tough as the older 5,6, or 7, and Race Face bottom brackets are crap (or should I say were), however since I have used hope hubs, headsets, and bottom brackets I've had very few problems. I also agree with Globalti that the mtb conditions are pretty extreme, grit, mud and lots of water is always a problem.


----------



## GaryA (15 Apr 2011)

GilesM said:


> I've had problems with Deore Hubs and I agree the 9 speed transmissions are not as tough as the older 5,6, or 7, and Race Face bottom brackets are crap (or should I say were), however since I have used hope hubs, headsets, and bottom brackets I've had very few problems. I also agree with Globalti that the mtb conditions are pretty extreme, grit, mud and lots of water is always a problem.


Thanks Giles I agree with deore hubs being crap but am kinda stuck with them..being a penniless dad Y' understand  

I'm not impressed with Shimano BB or FSA headsets either
I'm mainly x-country these days (having tired of batterings on serious MTBing) which avoids serious mud swamps

I thought these BB were all supposed to be sealed properly anyway?
I'm sick of replacing shimano stuff period
will look for hope or chris king stuff next time


----------



## GilesM (15 Apr 2011)

GaryA said:


> I thought these BB were all supposed to be sealed properly anyway?
> I'm sick of replacing shimano stuff period
> will look for hope or chris king stuff next time



Many people say how good Chris King are, but I am more than happy with Hope, and the price of Chris King is truly mad.


----------



## Mad at urage (15 Apr 2011)

How long do the wheel bearings on cars last? Tens of thousands of miles (which would be absolutely fantastic on a bike)? Hundreds of thousands? Thousands of thousands in some cases (there's a word for those .... Millions?) ? They experience far greater loads under worse conditions (high speed spray of muck, salt, soaps for most of their life); they are made strong enough to withstand that, and cheaply enough. Some automotive bearings are very similar in size, weight and shape to those required for bikes, they could be specified for bike wheels etc and would last far longer than those used.

They are not specified, manufacturers deliberately use bearings that wear with our meager power output and our minimal, low-speed exposure to muck. I noticed this first in the '90s when I was communting around seven and a half thousand miles a year - nothing much has changed.


----------



## Zoiders (15 Apr 2011)

8 speed was the happy middle ground for MTB groupsets, it was smooth enough to be real improvement over the somewhat clunky wide ratio 7 speed MTB cassettes of previous incarnations yet still dirt resistant.

Not sure who thought teensy weensy 9 speed and then 10 speed would be a good idea - which may explain the rebirth of the hub gear of late as an off road groupset.


----------



## GilesM (15 Apr 2011)

Zoiders said:


> 8 speed was the happy middle ground for MTB groupsets, it was smooth enough to be real improvement over the somewhat clunky wide ratio 7 speed MTB cassettes of previous incarnations yet still dirt resistant.
> 
> Not sure who thought teensy weensy 9 speed and then 10 speed would be a good idea - which may explain the rebirth of the hub gear of late as an off road groupset.



I like the idea of 10 speed for mtb, one front ring with bash and a 9 to 36 cassette sounds very good, however, if it's too weak to be any use then it won't catch on.


----------



## Zoiders (15 Apr 2011)

GilesM said:


> I like the idea of 10 speed for mtb, one front ring with bash and a 9 to 36 cassette sounds very good, however, if it's too weak to be any use then it won't catch on.


The chain line would be horrible at the extremes plus you would need to add a chain retension device to stop droping the chain. Im not so sold on the whole 36t thing anyway, as a rule I refuse to ride a bike up an incline at a speed slower than that at which I can push or carry it.


----------



## GilesM (15 Apr 2011)

Zoiders said:


> The chain line would be horrible at the extremes plus you would need to add a chain retension device to stop droping the chain. Im not so sold on the whole 36t thing anyway, as a rule I refuse to ride a bike up an incline at a speed slower than that at which I can push or carry it.



I understand your point, and sort of agree, however the chain line should be the same as the middle ring, and using largets and smallest sprockets with the middle ring works fine with 9 speed cassettes, so it should be okay with a 10 speed system. There are a few places I use silly low gears, long steep off road climbs, I will use the granny ring (usually 22 or24) and 28 or 32 sprockets, not common, but it's nice to have it when needed. It would be very easy to use a bash ring and chain retension system, similar to the down hill bikes. I'll wait and see, I won't be the first to buy 10 speed stuff, I'll let it work properly first.


----------



## Zoiders (15 Apr 2011)

Oh it works OK on a middle but it still nails your chain quicker than it should as you haven't got that preferable chainline that the outer and inner ring offer.


----------



## GaryA (18 Apr 2011)

Mad@urage said:


> How long do the wheel bearings on cars last? Tens of thousands of miles (which would be absolutely fantastic on a bike)? Hundreds of thousands? Thousands of thousands in some cases (there's a word for those .... Millions?) ? They experience far greater loads under worse conditions (high speed spray of muck, salt, soaps for most of their life); they are made strong enough to withstand that, and cheaply enough. Some automotive bearings are very similar in size, weight and shape to those required for bikes, they could be specified for bike wheels etc and would last far longer than those used.
> 
> They are not specified, manufacturers deliberately use bearings that wear with our meager power output and our minimal, low-speed exposure to muck. I noticed this first in the '90s when I was communting around seven and a half thousand miles a year - nothing much has changed.



I was changing the worn out freehub (again) on saturday .... I managed to lose a few of the ball bearings from the deore back axle down the back of the workbench curses! couldnt find them. Thinking like you...why on earth do we put up with Edwardian era poxy cone bearings? shite design.  

My m/cycle goes at least 20k before i replace the sealed unit bearings its an easy job with a few big sockets as drifts. I ride through the winter with the wheels plastered in salt and muck
I've never replaced any of the suspension linkage bearings, they are right under the bike, they have done 49K
covered in a salt grit and oil paste mixture


----------



## GaryA (18 Apr 2011)

I dream of rohloff 14 speed hubs...  
#
My work m/cycle (NTV650) has shaft drive, you would never use it on the track for racing but it is a infinitley superior design for everyday riding. The transmission maintenence consists of changing 200ml of gear oil every 6 months -a 10 minute job.

Rohloffs are like shaft drive for cycles


----------



## GilesM (18 Apr 2011)

GaryA said:


> Thinking like you...why on earth do we put up with Edwardian era poxy cone bearings? shite design.



I agree, it's difficult to understand why Shimano stick with such an outdated system, and looking at the number of mtbs that are now fitted with Hope or Chris king hubs it is obvious what the punters think is best.


----------



## GilesM (18 Apr 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Oh it works OK on a middle but it still nails your chain quicker than it should as you haven't got that preferable chainline that the outer and inner ring offer.



You're probably right, and there is also the problem with the wear on a small ring and small sprockets, has to be worse than with larger ones, but no front changer to collect the crap, one less cable and one less shifter has to be a good thing, the gravity drop seatpin remote lever could go on the bars where we used to have the front mech shifter.


----------

