# How to convince others of trike safety



## Attheback (2 Mar 2021)

I am keen to get a recumbent trike but am getting some opposition from concerned family members who think they are too unsafe. Can anyone give me any good information to convince them they are OK? 
I'm 67, have 3 road bikes and typically go on 40 mile rides at weekends some in town some in country so am used to riding, I want to do some 200k audax rides but know that my current setups will be too uncomfortable for this


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2021)

Recumbents aren't as common on the roads, so they tend to draw more attention than a bike.

Most common thing said against their use is that you're lower down, so you'll be harder spot. See the above.


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## HMS_Dave (3 Mar 2021)

Why do they think it is unsafe?


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2021)

Worth a read.
https://recumbentgourmet.com/cycling-and-bike-tours/cycling-safely/


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## simongt (3 Mar 2021)

What you need to take into account that because you use your leg muscles differently on a 'bent, you'll need to get used to that. Comfort wise, they take a lot of beating although slower on the uphill, advantage is gained downhill and on the level. 
Agree on the visibility point as most drivers vision is 'tuned in' to seeing cyclists on normal uprights, not one rather lower down. Having said that, not all 'bents are low down models.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Mar 2021)

People are always pointing out recumbents to show how hard they are to see. Their invisibility turns heads everywhere.


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## derrick (3 Mar 2021)

If they are so safe, Why are there not more people using them?


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## sheddy (3 Mar 2021)

^ Price, availability and harder to store


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## bobcolover (3 Mar 2021)

I use a 2 wheeled recumbent to commute [ pre-covid] and ride at weekends, approx 60- 80 miles a week. I wear hi viz, cycle sensibly, leave my hi power flashing front and rear lights on , at dusk this goes on https://uk.lumoshelmet.co/ [kickstart version]. I say to friends ' most people look twice'.
I think recumbents are safe. Ice trikes are lower but most people ride them with a flag, and some put a light on the pole.
I am also 67 and have been riding recumbents for 20 years.


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## a.twiddler (3 Mar 2021)

If you are the shy and retiring type, you might find the constant attention a bit much at times. Other road users in my limited experience never fail to see you, and they definitely give you plenty of room. I use a 2 wheeled LWB recumbent which is not as low as some, but a trike would have even more road presence with the bonus of being harder to fall off. With a tadpole trike you also have the advantage of really good brakes which allows you to keep what speed you have gained in the knowledge that you can stop sure footedly even on bad surfaces.

I am not a sporty rider, and ride within my limits. I use lights in poor visibility but don't generally wear high vis. The bike has the usual set of front, rear and wheel reflectors. It even has pedal reflectors which might be just visible in headlights but are probably more noticeable to low flying aircraft. The strange appearance of the bike itself is probably its greatest safety feature. It is very eye catching. I do have a multicoloured windsock and a pole but stopped using it early on when I saw the effect it had on horses, which we often see locally. They definitely don't like it. The bike itself otherwise doesn't bother them. Maybe a light on the pole would be worth a try.

Remembering the rite of passage I underwent while learning to ride this beastie I can now say that I believe that recumbents are safe, and I certainly feel safe when I am out on mine. I would say that any slight disadvantage in speed is outweighed by the ability to be able to keep on going with far less of the aches and pains you get on an upright, which means you keep your concentration on the ride and not your body. You have a far better view of the road ahead and the surroundings and there is also the wheeee factor when you can let it go on the downhills and push up your average speed. Unless some really bizarre incident happens you are unlikely to fly over the handlebars. On a trike I believe it is possible to roll it but you would need to be doing some unfeasible amount of speed to do that.

I would add that I am 68 and have been riding recumbents for less than a year, though I have been riding conventional bikes for many years before that. You're never too old to try new experiences, and it's certainly opened up a new world of cycling for me!


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## Scoosh (3 Mar 2021)

Recumbents are a bit unusual, so people (pedestrian and in car) are more likely to say "Oh Wow/Cool !" and give you a wide berth => safer overtake and generally more room. Yobs on a cyclepath are more inclined to move over and comment favourably as you pass than stand in the middle of the path and block the route. Children point you out to their parents, or parents point you out to their children; one cannot be an 'anonymous cyclist' when riding a 'bent !  People are nice to you, people are interested in the bike. There can be a thought that we might be Disabled (more so on a trike), so we get a bit more room. 

I've even had some yoofs in a slightly 'sketchy' area of Fife  call out "EPIC COOL BIKE, MAN !" as I rode past on my low-rider 2-wheeled Fuego. 

Agree totally with the comment ^^^ about flags and horses. I have a flag on a pole and was proceeding slowly up a steep hill when a horse and rider were coming down. I stopped (naturally to let them pass safely, nothing to do with the 17% gradient ) and started talking to the rider as she approached, which is usually the best way to keep horses settled. I gave my excuse for stopping and she thanked me and said that the flag was more likely to be the issue as the horse was not fully settled. Hand on flag, job done, happy horse, rider and recovered cyclist  !

Have a read through many of the threads in this section, as this question/concern is oft-quoted and there are lots of user-experiences given.


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Mar 2021)

I passed someone on a recumbent a few days ago who had 3 large dayglo yellow flags on poles - no way anyone was failing to spot that bike/trike


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## numbnuts (3 Mar 2021)

numbnuts said:


> Been riding a trike now for five years, I was worried at first being so low down, but that was soon passed as most drivers went the other side of the road to pass me.
> I've had loads of great comments from everybody and get loads of waves from all ages.
> I bought it as a fun thing, but I have found it so practical it can carry so much heavy shopping without becoming unstable.


I wrote this last year and it's still true today, as others have said when a driver see's you it's "WTF is that", they have seen you sorted 
Controversial to some, flags do you need them, well I do big bright and bold, enjoy when you get one


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## mickle (3 Mar 2021)

I could be argued that recumbents are more likely to be seen by drivers than regular bikes as their attention tends to be centred on the road . That is to say: below the horizon. The bulk of the visible area of an upright cyclist is therefore at the edge of or outside the driver's focal point. Also, in human perception something low down tends to register as nearby, whilst things higher up tend to register as far away. This *might* illicit a swifter response in drivers coming up behind recumbents. My experience is as has been mentioned upthread, drivers do see you and then they slow down and give you a really wide berth. The slowing down also seems to slow down the vehicles behind. Honestly, I never felt safer on the road that when riding a recumbent


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## Bad Machine (3 Mar 2021)

I concur with others' experiences that recumbent trikes get "seen" and are given a suitably wide pass by most drivers. Arguably, I can't help but think those drivers who pass too close when you're on a trike are the same kind of driver that would pass too close if you were on an upright.........

To fly a flag or not ? Your choice. I do, yes, because bends in the road, hedges, grass verges and parked cars are all obstacles to a motorists view. A moving flag may well be seen before me and my trike. And as it's always behind me, it's no obstruction to my view.

As said already, flags do spook horses - more than flashing lights - but I'm now used to laying the flag down until the horse(s) and rider(s) has passed. My flagpole can be lifted out of its upright position easily. I was told that standing upright and talking to the horse rider as they approach reassures the horse that you're just another human. Seems to work for me. 2 minutes delay, max ?

Whilst I've tried a light on the pole for night rides (which does work), making a flag with 3M Scotchbrite reflective material is a simpler idea (my current preference).


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## HMS_Dave (3 Mar 2021)

I think it's fair to say, if you're hit at speed on any bicycle that it isn't going to end well. The recumbent rider is likely to be more comfortable is all...


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Mar 2021)

I presume a recumbent also often reduces the distance you would fall if you came off???


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## Scoosh (3 Mar 2021)

Very early on my 'bent riding days, a car did knock me off. 
I was stationary about to turn right, he was turning across from my left, slightly cut the corner, "couldn't see because of the low sun" (though he still drove on - go figure ) and he responded to my shout by gently knocking me off on to my right side. I just rolled off and no harm done - to me or him, though he was more shocked than was I - I'd seen him coming, he hadn't seen anything !! 

Regarding flags - Mine is quite high and is not for the car behind me. It's for the guy _behind_ the car behind me, who may be wondering why this idiot car-driver is going so slowly. The flag explains ... . ... if he's actually looking...


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2021)

I've a Brox, ridden through Manchester city centre on the day it was bought, truly a novelty to most folk as room was left all round. 

I've ridden in Leeds city centre with no problems(aside from the fact it's too wide for the cycle lanes).


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## derrick (3 Mar 2021)

I do wonder if there where the same amount of recumbents on the road, as there are normal bikes, what the accident statistics would be. Between the two.


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## Tigerbiten (3 Mar 2021)

Recumbent trike rider here.
A trike rides wider than a bike on a road.
If I have my left wheel where a bikes wheel would be then my centreline is inline with the ends of the bikes handlebar and my right wheel is another 18" further out.
Therefor anything overtaking me has to move further out.
This make it less likely for a car to try and stay on a straight line to just squeeze past and more likely to move over to try and overtake properly.
Once they start to move over then you tend to get more room.



derrick said:


> If they are so safe, Why are there not more people using them?


The bike racing industries have pushed the development of all bikes.
But the UCI banned recumbents from racing in 1930.
This stopped almost all development in recumbents and they dropped from general consciousness for +50 years until after the internet started to make it easy to find obscure knowledge.
Now the development of recumbent has started up, they have started to become more widely known.
But the entrenched cycling community still tends to look down on us ............ 

Luck ...........


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## DRHysted (3 Mar 2021)

I have managed to crash my recumbent trike. Commuting to work early in the dark came round a bend an a shared use path to find a tree across 3/4 of the path. Swerved hard whilst braking hard (going downhill so a lot of speed to lose), but couldn’t get slow enough or far enough to the left. My right front wheel clipped the tree at 17mph, the bent flipped on its side whilst rotating 180 degrees and spat me out backwards. The damage? A few scratches on the grip of the bent, a bruised elbow, and my jersey was torn from the shoulder down (I had an undershirt on so no gravel rash). 
imagine what the damage would’ve been if I’d hit the tree on one of my “normal” bike!


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## Attheback (3 Mar 2021)

Thanks for all the replies, I'll be passing them round the family as part of my effort to reassure them


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2021)

Tigerbiten said:


> The bike racing industries have pushed the development of all bikes.
> But the UCI banned recumbents from racing in 1930.
> This stopped almost all development in recumbents and they dropped from general consciousness for +50 years until after the internet started to make it easy to find obscure knowledge.
> Now the development of recumbent has started up, they have started to become more widely known.
> ...


_"At the 58th Congress of the UCI on February 3, 1934."_ 
From
https://bikeroute.com/NationalBicyc...bent-why-its-faster-how-it-came-to-be-banned/


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## cwskas (5 Mar 2021)

I ride my Catrike Expedition quite a lot. As with driving, walking or 2 wheel transportation the most important thing is to proceed defensively, I will be 69 this month and have ridden on the shoulder of 4 lane roads in a busy city and on dedicated shared use trails. But most of my time is spent on rural two lane roads with little or no shoulder. I find vehicle drivers to be very friendly almost all of the time and as of yet have not had to bail off the side of the road, but I try to always 'leave myself an out'.

I have a very good light on the front and rear and keep them on all the time. I carry fully charged spares of each as well. I also use a flag and have two mirrors which I use extensively.

I enjoy rides by myself but prefer to ride with another cyclist. I have always had someone stop to ask if I need help on the rare occasions I needed to fix a flat or other problem.


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## simongt (5 Mar 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> no way anyone was failing to spot that bike/trike


When I was rear ended riding a regular bike, it was broad daylight and I was wearing a hi-viz yellow long sleeve top and had a yellow bash hat on, 'fraid I don't altogether hold with bright colours / lights means that you will always be noticed.


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## ebikeerwidnes (5 Mar 2021)

simongt said:


> When I was rear ended riding a regular bike, it was broad daylight and I was wearing a hi-viz yellow long sleeve top and had a yellow bash hat on, 'fraid I don't altogether hold with bright colours / lights means that you will always be noticed.


Fair point - I used to know a blind bloke who liked cycling
He was always looking for volunteers to go on the front of his tandem
but what he really wanted was someone to go on the back and guide him by shouting - he was a nutter by the way

I would trust him driving before I would trust some people I see on the road - especially yesterday - to celebrate my birthday 2 people nearly hit me by pulling into my lane suddenly without - apparently - looking.
and I was in a bright red car with my lights on in broad daylight
so it is no wonder people get hit on bikes in spite of hi-vis, lights and - in some cases - flags

maybe a marching band would help?????


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## byegad (5 Mar 2021)

I've been riding 'bents since 2005 and only recumbent trikes since 2008.hkl

Drivers give me far more room than I ever got on an upright bike. 
I am often told that I'm hard to see, 'down there'. Usually by upright riders who've never ridden a 'bent. 

But many thousands of miles ridden 'down there' have taught me that I'm more visible and get more consideration than on any upright. There's a perception that I'm disabled, I'm not. Maybe drivers seeing me on the road think how it would look in court having run into a cripple?

As to visibility at low level I assume that councils spend a fortune painting 1/4" high white and yellow lines on the road because they feel it can be seen.
I use a flag so that, in traffic, THE CAR BEHIND THE CAR BEHIND ME can see that I'm there. As as been said above.


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## a.twiddler (5 Mar 2021)

simongt said:


> When I was rear ended riding a regular bike, it was broad daylight and I was wearing a hi-viz yellow long sleeve top and had a yellow bash hat on, 'fraid I don't altogether hold with bright colours / lights means that you will always be noticed.


The expectation that all "vulnerable" road users should wear high viz and be lit up in daylight feeds into the victim blaming mentality where its somehow your fault for being run down, not the responsibility of the driver of the larger, heavier, faster vehicle to be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear, to have consideration for other road users, and to look where they are bl**dy going.

As a long time motorcyclist I have seen years of arguments as whether you should ride with your lights on in daylight, wear high viz etc and at one time it could be said that it "might" make a difference. Now that all new vehicles have permanent driving lights you lose any advantage because you blend into the sea of lights and it's a bit of an arms race because even low output lights are getting brighter. It used to be said that you should assume that you put on a cloak of invisibility when you get on your motor bike, and ride accordingly. It's a psychological thing. Car drivers are programmed to look for car sized objects particularly in our car centric culture and anything smaller can be overlooked particularly in a quick scan at a junction. As a general rule you have to ride defensively which for a new cyclist who has been used to driving a car takes time to learn. Car drivers take for granted limited vision due to thick safety pillars particularly in modern cars.

It came as a shock to me after motorcycling and cycling for years how many blind spots there were in a car once I learned to drive in 1980, even with the skinny pillars and thin doors which cars had then.

When mixing it with car drivers who mostly have no experience of other vehicles, it is useful to bear in mind that they can't hit you if you're not there, and to constantly be thinking "what if?" and to assume that they are most likely idiots. Keeping a lookout for an escape route is also good. The experience of @simongt shows that even this can't prevent the unexpected happening. This topic could develop into a thread of its own.

The "differentness" of a recumbent bike or trike (or even an upright trike) or trailer is enough to make most other road users give you a wide berth and so increase your safety (real or perceived) compared to an upright but doesn't change the laws of physics if it comes to the crunch. By all means get lit up, reflect away to your heart's content, fluoresce, wear a helmet, carry a St Christopher medallion, lucky rabbit's foot (not so lucky for the rabbit) your favourite underpants or whatever, all optional. I would like to fly a flag, but in my area the possibility of being trampled by a panic stricken horse outweighs the benefits.

Just remember that the biggest aid to safety is between your ears and that despite what people seem to believe, cycling is not inherently dangerous!


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## Scoosh (5 Mar 2021)

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ------------------- ^ ^ ^ ^ 
Now that is an excellent summation !  
Thank you, @a.twiddler


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## Smokin Joe (5 Mar 2021)

I spent a few years on a recumbent trike and the only thing that nearly hit me was some idiot on a road bike who was fiddling with whatever piece of electronic junk he had on his handlebar. As said 'bents stand out much more than uprights and I never had people go so wide when passing me.

I never bothered with a flag, either.


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## Bad Machine (5 Mar 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> _ I would like to fly a flag, but in my area the possibility of being trampled by a panic stricken horse outweighs the benefits._



Sorry, @Scoosh, I disagree - @a.twiddler's evaulation of the risk/benefit profile of flying a flag is subjective, and at odds with my own.

I've been riding the lanes around Bury St Edmunds and Newmarket (yes, as in Newmarket Racecourse) - on a recumbent trike (with flag) for the last ten years. IIRC, that's the same "area" where @a.twiddler says it's unsafe.

It's no big deal when you encounter a horse and rider. As any other road user should be, be alert, and considerate. If you're at risk of being trampled, then you've got too close. You should have proceeded with more caution. Learn from the experience.


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## a.twiddler (5 Mar 2021)

Bad Machine said:


> Sorry, @Scoosh, I disagree - @a.twiddler's evaulation of the risk/benefit profile of flying a flag is subjective, and at odds with my own.
> 
> I've been riding the lanes around Bury St Edmunds and Newmarket (yes, as in Newmarket Racecourse) - on a recumbent trike (with flag) for the last ten years. IIRC, that's the same "area" where @a.twiddler says it's unsafe.
> 
> It's no big deal when you encounter a horse and rider. As any other road user should be, be alert, and considerate. If you're at risk of being trampled, then you've got too close. You should have proceeded with more caution. Learn from the experience.


Strange that after what I have written about anticipation, thinking "what if" and considering an escape route in various circumstances you immediately leap to the conclusion that I must be in the habit of approaching horses uncautiously close and failing to learn from whatever experiences you gratuitously imagine that I have had. Your evaluation can be considered equally subjective - what works for you, works for you. What works for me, works for me. Frankly, I give all road users plenty of room.

I like to see horses about. They and their riders generally cause no issues to me nor I them. It is indeed no big deal to encounter a horse and rider. I chose not to use a flag (though I think they are a cool accessory for a recumbent in different circumstances) because for my type of riding any benefit I might gain does not outweigh the fact that they do upset horses, maybe not all but enough. So maybe it is more an issue of respect for such road users that I don't make their riders' role harder for a benefit to me that would be marginal. Horses can be spooked by a plastic bag flapping in the wind, why add to other people's issues. I certainly haven't had any problems being seen by other road users but my LWB recumbent isn't ultra low.

Is the flag thing akin to the helmet thread? Have I wandered into a minefield?

It has been many years since I travelled through the Bury St Edmunds/Newmarket area and nice as it is I don't see the relevance to my post. Is it unsafe? How would I know, I don't live there. It is @Bad Machine who claims that I said that. I can only speak from my local experience where I live. I appreciate his years of recumbent experience but it is just as disrespectful of him to criticise my alleged approach to horses on the basis of no knowledge of my locality as it would be of me to make similar ones about his. 

If my local circumstances changed then I would reconsider the flag thing. If I ever get the chance to get away for a few days once the Coronavirus situation eases, probably using more "A" roads, then I would stick a flag up "just because I can".


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## Bad Machine (5 Mar 2021)

I stand corrected - I had thought you were riding in and around Suffolk ? But are the horses where you live of a particularly unique and unstable temperment ? I wouldn't presume so.
My criticism was of your linking the likelihood of personal injury to the mere presence of a recumbent with a flag. That's just wrong - there has to be other factors that come into play, and I pointed that out.
Your choice to not fly a flag is indeed your choice.
And I have never found myself at risk of being trampled by a horse - and I always fly a flag.


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## simongt (18 Mar 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> all "vulnerable" road users should wear high viz and be lit up


Although an advantage of wearing bright colours; certainly in my case, was that the offending driver couldn't hide behind the 'I didn't see him officer' excuse - !


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## cwskas (21 Mar 2021)

We cannot control the actions of others, but we can do whatever might help make our travels more safe!

One of my cousins was hit yesterday afternoon by an SUV while turning into his driveway after a bike trip to the grocery store. He was wearing a helmet, which likely saved his life. He did suffer a subdural hematoma and will require extensive recovery.

Just a reminder that we are almost always the smaller participant in an accident. It is not only the potential of an accident but the potential severity which should be considered.

Willie


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

Attheback said:


> I am keen to get a recumbent trike but am getting some opposition from concerned family members who think they are too unsafe. Can anyone give me any good information to convince them they are OK?
> I'm 67, have 3 road bikes and typically go on 40 mile rides at weekends some in town some in country so am used to riding, I want to do some 200k audax rides but know that my current setups will be too uncomfortable for this



Ask your family to find a reports of trike accidents in the past 12 months in the country you live in. Give them five minutes. So the same for road bikes. See what they come up with. Also remind them you’ll be feet first not head first. So unlike a road bike, any accident you are very unlikely to bash your head.

It is utter bollocks that they are difficult to see. They get noticed far easier and better than road bikes.

One thing you will definitely want though is a good rear view mirror. You’ll have a far better idea of what’s going on behind you when on your trike then on your road bike.


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