# Foot issues



## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

I'm still getting foot issues even with the wedges fitted 

I don't think the retul fit i paid for was any good at all - the only time the foot pain goes away is when my cleats are all the way forward, but then i get front of knee aches, tight calves.

i'm gonna put the bike on the turbo tonight and start looking at saddle fore/aft, stem length etc etc until i get it comfortable. 

one of the things that was altered during the fitting is that he put my saddle all the way forward on the rails, lowered nose 2 degrees, but it just doesn't feel right at all.

Its really starting to annoy me now, as i don't feel i can train long enough to get the benefits i'm looking for i.e weight loss and fitness for longer distances


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## User6179 (15 Jan 2014)

Maybe try platform pedals with toe straps and a pair of trainers with a decent insole , they let your foot move around more freely but you still feel connected to the bike and your feet will find their natural position on the pedals .


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## Dusty Bin (15 Jan 2014)

Sounds like the issue is your shoes - not your feet. Try a different pair. Also, any 'bike fit' that involves slamming your saddle all the way forward and lowering the nose, probably isn't worth the money.


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> Sounds like the issue is your shoes - not your feet. Try a different pair. Also, any 'bike fit' that involves slamming your saddle all the way forward and lowering the nose, probably isn't worth the money.


i've tried 3 different pairs now and have the same problem with all 3 - i had the retul fit done after a lot of research about the fitting etc


its was don e with 3d imaging, but i just don't feel comfortable at all and i'm just not going to throw anymore money at it at the moment - so gonna set-up the turbo tonight and start from a neutral position with cleats, stem and saddle.


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## albion (15 Jan 2014)

Mine went after removing cleats and using warmer shoe gear.

I do suspect part of the problem was the natural transfer of cold from pedal to the foot via the cleat.
I don't compete so for me cleats are unnecessary


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

If i cant get it sorted ill be going back to pedals and straps of yester year


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

Go back and get them to sort you out

See a podiatrist and get your gait and pronantion assessed otherwise

Or pay those other guys to do the assessment


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## screenman (15 Jan 2014)

As I posted before I had this problem all my cycling life, which is a long one. The only person to sort it out was Adrian Timmis, I could write you a list of so called specialist I visited over the years, people like the BCF physio, NHS and private consultants, chiripodists (lots) chiropractors, more physio's etc.


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## steveindenmark (15 Jan 2014)

Jowwy,

I would get rid of the cleats for at least a month and see how it goes and then decide what to do.

Steve


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

if i remove the cleats, pedals and use pedal and straps. can i still use my shoes?????


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## User6179 (15 Jan 2014)

[


jowwy said:


> if i remove the cleats, pedals and use pedal and straps. can i still use my shoes?????



You could but it might be the flat hard sole of the shoes that are causing the problem.


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## Peteaud (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> if i remove the cleats, pedals and use pedal and straps. can i still use my shoes?????



What shoes do you have?

if they are really slippy soled then might be a bit iffy.


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

Peteaud said:


> What shoes do you have?
> 
> if they are really slippy soled then might be a bit iffy.


mavic fury mtb shoes


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## Peteaud (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> mavic fury mtb shoes



Should be fine, i used to ride my MTB with mtb shoes but on DMR flat pedals.


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## Peteaud (15 Jan 2014)

What pedals have you got? 

SPD??


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

yeh i got shimano m530 spds.

did a lot of moving and measuring etc today with saddle, stem etc etc. during the testing period of approx 25mins and didnt get any aches or pains. so will give it a longer go tomorrow and see what happens

i have pedals straps in the attic room, so can try them tomorrow too.


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## cyberknight (15 Jan 2014)

front of knee ache = to low seat height, putting your cleats all the way forward lowers effective seat height.
calf ache = cleats to far forward.
where on your foot does it hurt?


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

cyberknight said:


> front of knee ache = to low seat height, putting your cleats all the way forward lowers effective seat height.
> calf ache = cleats to far forward.
> where on your foot does it hurt?


only my right foot 
, around the outside of the foot down to the mid foot position

seat height and knee pain isnt my problem


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## steveindenmark (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> if i remove the cleats, pedals and use pedal and straps. can i still use my shoes?????



Personally, I would change the lot and use training shoes for the moment. I find them kinder to the feet than cycling shoes. Cycling shoes have very hard slippery soles. I wouldn't want to use them without cleats.

Steve


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Personally, I would change the lot and use training shoes for the moment. I find them kinder to the feet than cycling shoes. Cycling shoes have very hard slippery soles. I wouldn't want to use them without cleats.
> 
> Steve


they definately dont have slippery soles steve


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## Andrew_P (15 Jan 2014)

Thought of trying SPD SL?


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> Thought of trying SPD SL?


can i ask how would they be any different and i'm sure i had the same issues with spd sl's


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## Hacienda71 (15 Jan 2014)

It does sound like a shoe issue rather than being attached. I don't have an answer just an amateurs view.


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> It does sound like a shoe issue rather than being attached. I don't have an answer just an amateurs view.


but its happening with all 3 pairs

2 pairs of northwave and the pair of mavics


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## cyberknight (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> only my right foot
> , around the outside of the foot down to the mid foot position
> 
> seat height and knee pain isnt my problem


Ahh you said your knees hurt and your calves ache when you put the cleats forward, i was addressing that issue.


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Ahh you said your knees hurt and your calves ache when you put the cleats forward, i was addressing that issue.


sorry cyber, putting the cleats forward caused the calf and knee issues, pulling the cleats back is causing outside of the foot issues. 

so i'm trying to get rid of the outside of the foot issue, by not causing another one. i'm just getting very frustrated with the whole problem


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## albion (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> ...
> Its really starting to annoy me now, as i don't feel i can train long enough to get the benefits i'm looking for i.e weight loss and fitness for longer distances



You don't even need cleats for that. Find an old pair of walking boots and try them. Trainers mentioned have too soft a sole for longer rides.

BTW It took a good 6 months for my foot issue to drift away. The pain would usually start at 50 miles +


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

albion said:


> You don't even need cleats for that. Find an old pair of walking boots and try them. Trainers mentioned have too soft a sole for longer rides.


i would prefer to be clipped in if i can sort the issue out, i cant use flats alone witnout some sort of foot retention.


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

I was getting pain in foot quite quickly and ankle after longer distances, Specialized footbeds for high arches solved the issue pretty much


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

vickster said:


> I was getting pain in foot quite quickly and ankle after longer distances, Specialized footbeds for high arches solved the issue pretty much


were was your foot pain vickster


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

Along the outside mostly and into ankle. Also hot spots on ball of foot solved by moving cleats into correct position as well


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## Globalti (15 Jan 2014)

Try some Specialized BG insoles; they really are comfortable. Get them from Eblag.


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

This ^^^ Mine came from one of the cycling websites, £20 very well spent 

I have the green ones due to high arches


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

Globalti said:


> Try some Specialized BG insoles; they really are comfortable. Get them from Eblag.





vickster said:


> This ^^^ Mine came from one of the cycling websites, £20 very well spent
> 
> I have the green ones due to high arches


will try them next


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

There are 3 types depending on your degree of flat footedness or high archedness


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## Globalti (15 Jan 2014)

Ha ha, I bought some Sidi cycling shoes from a cycling jumble for little money but found them really cold and uncomfortable. Little did I realise.... they had no insoles so I was on the thin cardboard layer on top of the plastic soles! I didn't twig until after I'd flogged them on Ebay. Muppet.


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## jowwy (15 Jan 2014)

vickster said:


> There are 3 types depending on your degree of flat footedness or high archedness


Were can i get them from vickster


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## Andrew_P (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> can i ask how would they be any different and i'm sure i had the same issues with spd sl's


just a longer base bigger cleat for your foot


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## vickster (15 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> Were can i get them from vickster


Sigma sell them for example, but you may be best to go to a Specialized BG fit centre or retailer locally if you have one

Are Tredz in your part of Welsh Wales for example? I am not sure where your sofa is located 

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-BodyGeometry-SL-Footbeds_61668.htm


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2014)

It sounds like it could be caused because your feet are clipped into a static position, possibly the wrong position. As you know there is so little room for adjustment.

Like I said before Jude trainers for a while and see if it helps.


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## Globalti (16 Jan 2014)

Get the BG insoles and stick with the pedals and cleats; your feet will take some time to get used to te new posture and being restrained in the shoes. Mine hurt on the otside edges when I first went over to road riding but after a few months the tenderness went away. In 22 years of mountain biking it wasn't a problem because you're on and off the bike so often.


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

vickster said:


> Sigma sell them for example, but you may be best to go to a Specialized BG fit centre or retailer locally if you have one
> 
> Are Tredz in your part of Welsh Wales for example? I am not sure where your sofa is located
> 
> http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-BodyGeometry-SL-Footbeds_61668.htm


in my lounge vickster 

will take a look at tredz website and see if i can get down there some time soon


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

ok - little update

woke up this morning with zero aches and pains after all the adjustments i made yesterday - so going to try a full turbo session tonight and see how it goes.


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## VamP (16 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> mavic fury mtb shoes



As it happens, I killed my Spesh shoes at the Nationals last week, and as I needed a replacement in a hurry, found the Fury's in my size on CCR. They just arrived and I have to say, they are full-on race shoes, so not the most forgiving if you have foot issues, the sole is rock stiff carbon plate. I would imagine that even small sizing problems would be amplified dramatically.

Are your issues of the same severity with the Mavic's as they are with your Northwaves?

A slight aside - it would be a heinous crime to use the Fury's with platform pedals!


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> As it happens, I killed my Spesh shoes at the Nationals last week, and as I needed a replacement in a hurry, found the Fury's in my size on CCR. They just arrived and I have to say, they are full-on race shoes, so not the most forgiving if you have foot issues, the sole is rock stiff carbon plate. I would imagine that even small sizing problems would be amplified dramatically.
> 
> Are your issues of the same severity with the Mavic's as they are with your Northwaves?
> 
> A slight aside - it would be a heinous crime to use the Fury's with platform pedals!


i have to be honest VamP - the issues are more seviere when on the turbo than when out on the road - the northwaves less so when on the turbo and the new northwave boots even less as i got a wider fitting

what i'm trying at the moment is using the northwaves when on the turbo and keeping the mavics till i get out on the road with them more in the spring/summer months

i'm basically trying anything at the moment, without splitting my head open on the wall


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## VamP (16 Jan 2014)

Sure. Try all your changes with your most comfortable fitting shoes and see where that takes you. Overheating on turbo is your most likely cause of additional discomfort, as feet swell in size. It's all pointing back to sizing for me... Try really thin socks?


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> Sure. Try all your changes with your most comfortable fitting shoes and see where that takes you. Overheating on turbo is your most likely cause of additional discomfort, as feet swell in size. It's all pointing back to sizing for me... Try really thin socks?


will do - even thought of no socks, but then worried about foot rub - the thing is, it's only my right foot which is why its confusing the hell out of me.

what i have just realised is the last two nights i have been using my heatgear socks, which has probably not helped - doh doh doh


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## vickster (16 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> Sure. Try all your changes with your most comfortable fitting shoes and see where that takes you. Overheating on turbo is your most likely cause of additional discomfort, as feet swell in size. It's all pointing back to sizing for me... Try really thin socks?


My foot problems were much worse in the hot summer weather...thin socks definitely needed

Is it your right knee that is dodgy, if so, it could presumably be a bio mechanical wonkiness

That said my pain was mostly in the right foot and it is my left knee that is fubar'ed


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## Andrew_P (16 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> will do - even thought of no socks, but then worried about foot rub - the thing is, it's only my right foot which is why its confusing the hell out of me.
> 
> what i have just realised is the last two nights i have been using my heatgear socks, which has probably not helped - doh doh doh


Ergon TRP might be worth a punt not sure how good they are though http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ergon-tp1-pedal-cleat-tool/rp-prod37987


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## Dusty Bin (16 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> the thing is, it's only my right foot which is why its confusing the hell out of me.



Most people have one foot slightly bigger than the other. Like I said earlier, this is almost certainly a cycling shoe size/fit issue, nothing more. If it was anything more, you would get the problem all the time.


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

vickster said:


> My foot problems were much worse in the hot summer weather...thin socks definitely needed
> 
> Is it your right knee that is dodgy, if so, it could presumably be a bio mechanical wonkiness
> 
> That said my pain was mostly in the right foot and it is my left knee that is fubar'ed


yeh its the same knee/foot - the joint to the outside of my right knee, is no longer - i broke it and the peice of bone broke away so it never heeled back properly. Surgery cleaned up the area that was broken to minimise arthritis in later life, but i get no pain there at all tbh.


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## Globalti (16 Jan 2014)

Don't overdo it on those turbo sessions Jowwy; it's easy to beast yourself and leave nothing for the real thing at the weekend. Remember that the improvement in strength and fitness takes place during the rest after the beasting session. Do you use a heart rate monitor?


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2014)

Globalti said:


> *Don't overdo it on those turbo sessions Jowwy; it's easy to beast yourself and leave nothing for the real thing at the weekend.* Remember that the improvement in strength and fitness takes place during the rest after the beasting session. Do you use a heart rate monitor?




:S


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## VamP (16 Jan 2014)

So to beast or not to beast? That is the question.

I'd say beast all the way!


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

sorry but i'm a beaster on the turbo - can't just sit there and dawdle, don't see the point in that at all


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## cyberknight (16 Jan 2014)

Hope your sorted 
If i had room for a turbo i would love to do some interval training but theres no where in the house that the kids can get at and no room in the shed


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2014)

Fingers crossed i am. @cyberknight


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## jowwy (17 Jan 2014)

Did a full training session last night and had no foot issues after all the changes i made 

Except the busting of my seatpost clamp the session went well

Hooray, i hope


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## Peter Armstrong (17 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> Did a full training session last night and had no foot issues after all the changes i made
> 
> Except the busting of my seatpost clamp the session went well
> 
> Hooray, i hope


 
What did you do in the end?


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## jowwy (17 Jan 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> What did you do in the end?


lots of things - saddle back, saddle height changed, nose levelled, shorter stem, lowered stack, - in the end i felt less pressure on my feet during the pedal stroke, also used thinner socks, and i found out mavics have two strap positions that can be used, so used the loosest position and the tightest position and both were ok 

so will use loose position on turbo sessions as its pretty warm in my house and the tighter position out on the road and see what happens


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## Peter Armstrong (17 Jan 2014)

No Cleat wedges then?


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## jowwy (17 Jan 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> No Cleat wedges then?


i removed them last night as they didn't seem to be doing much in terms of easing the foot pain


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