# Threadless headset on threaded forks



## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

Finally, after what seems like an incredible amount of hunting (and thanks to HUGE assistance from @Scilly Suffolk ) I have a nicer frame for my SingleSpeed (I currently have a horrid modern frame).







The plan is to move everything that I have on the current SingleSpeed bike over to the new frame (apart from the durrelier I was using as a chain tensioner!).

BUT I have a threadless headset on my current set up and as you can see this frame has threaded forks.






I've spotted quill to a-head adapters on ebay,






As far as I can tell half the headset goes in the bottom of the head tube, and the other half goes in the top and then this adapter does.... what? Does it jam into the centre of the top of the fork tube (steerer?) and hold the forks and headset in place? Does my current threadless stem then clamp to this slightly wider part at the stop of this adapter?

Do I saw off the top threaded bit of the current forks?


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

The setup on my current singlespeed:


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## HovR (22 Apr 2013)

You'll need a threaded headset to secure the threaded forks to the frame. As far as I know you're not able to use a threadless headset with threaded forks.

Once the fork is fitted with the new headset the threaded to threadless adapter slots in to the steerer tube, and you tighten up the bolt on the top which wedges it in place. Your threadless stem can then attach to the wider part at the top (you may have to place the stem on before tightening up the top bolt. I haven't used one of these before).

The adapters are only to allow you to be able to use a stem designed for threadless, not an entire threadless headset.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

HovR said:


> You'll need a threaded headset to secure the threaded forks to the frame. As far as I know you're not able to use a threadless headset with threaded forks.
> 
> Once the fork is fitted with the new headset the threaded to threadless adapter slots in to the steerer tube, and you tighten up the bolt on the top which wedges it in place. Your threadless stem can then attach to the wider part at the top (you may have to place the stem on before tightening up the top bolt. I haven't used one of these before).
> 
> The adapters are only to allow you to be able to use a stem designed for threadless, not an entire threadless headset.


 
Wow, thank you so much for clearing this up! I did consider getting some carbon threadless forks and having everything threadless, but the forks that come with the frame just look so right for it, and wide carbon forks might spoil the whole look!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

That being said I've just looked into fitting threaded headsets and they look horribly complicated compared to threadless! I might shop around for some fairly natural looking carbon threadless forks. I'm in no mad rush for this build.


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## HovR (22 Apr 2013)

Threadless headsets are definitely a massive improvement if you plan on taking your fork off regularly for servicing or fitting the bike in to a car boot etc, however come with the disadvantage of once you've cut the steerer, you can't raise the bars again.

Threaded headsets are a bit more fiddly to set up (very similar to setting wheel bearings correctly, but with only one cone and locknut), and often use loose ball bearings meaning taking the fork out is a bit of a pain, but once set up are no more hassle than threadless and gives you more control over getting your bar height correct.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

HovR said:


> Threadless headsets are definitely a massive improvement if you plan on taking your fork off regularly for servicing or fitting the bike in to a car boot etc, however come with the disadvantage of once you've cut the steerer, you can't raise the bars again.
> 
> Threaded headsets are a bit more fiddly to set up (very similar to setting wheel bearings correctly, but with only one cone and locknut), and often use loose ball bearings meaning taking the fork out is a bit of a pain, but once set up are no more hassle than threadless and gives you more control over getting your bar height correct.


 
This is my all year round commuter so being able to take it apart for servicing will be a massive help, as are you


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## compo (22 Apr 2013)

Threaded headsets are a cinch to fit. A short length of studding and a couple of coach washers with a couple of nuts to pull the cups into the frame (or a lump of wood and a hammer!), once that is done, and the crown race is fitted to the forks, the rest just falls together. Honest, it's a doddle. I have to do the same job later this week when I get my frame back from the painters and I have bought a new headset ready to fit.


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## fossyant (22 Apr 2013)

What compo says. If you can go for a 1" headset with cartridge bearings (these do cost more) as you don't have to change the races if the bearings wear out - you remove the cartridge and pop in new. That said they aren't cheap. Stronglight A9 is about £30, but the more standard ones come in much cheaper.

OMG I've just seen the price of the Dura Ace 1" headset on SJS Cycles £90 - OMG my best bike has one of these and a 'SPARE' unopened one - god the price has rocketed.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

I would also have to buy some headset spanners


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## compo (22 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> OMG I've just seen the price of the Dura Ace 1" headset on SJS Cycles £90 - OMG my best bike has one of these and a 'SPARE' unopened one - god the price has rocketed.


 
£90!!!!

I'd want a bike and a three year guarantee for that.


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## compo (22 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I would also have to buy some headset spanners


 
Some years ago I bought a 32mm spanner off Ebay for headsets. It was sold for something on a LandRover, but 32mm on a Landrover is no different to 32mm on a bike. It is very thin but very heavy and strong and wont bend or deform. I paid about a fiver for it posted. That does the cups and I just use a normal spanner on the lock ring as it doesn't need to be a thin spanner.


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## Hacienda71 (22 Apr 2013)

He could buy a cheap one of the bay for £7 or £8 quid.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Some years ago I bought a 32mm spanner off Ebay for headsets. It was sold for something on a LandRover, but 32mm on a Landrover is no different to 32mm on a bike. It is very thin but very heavy and strong and wont bend or deform. I paid about a fiver for it posted. That does the cups and I just use a normal spanner on the lock ring as it doesn't need to be a thin spanner.


 
I like your style.


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## compo (22 Apr 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> He could buy a cheap one of the bay for £7 or £8 quid.


 
That is the one I bought last week for my frame from Wheelies. Ordered online, paid with PayPal, received it two days later.
Only thing I would suggest to the OP if he goes down the threaded headset route is to measure his frame and forks very carefully to make sure he gets the right ones. AccountantPete and RecordAceFromNew messed me up totally with their ISO's and JIS's. (see my thread "Today Daft Question" in the KnowHow section). I am thankful they did though or I would have ordered the wrong size.


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## Tim Hall (22 Apr 2013)

As mentioned upthread, Stronglight A9 is the way to go for a long lasting threaded headset. I have one on the pink magenta bike that's 12 years old. I had one on the red fixer, but that died (the bike, not the headset), after being taken roughly from behind on a roundabout. It's all to do with the use of roller (?) bearings, instead of balls, together with angled faces for them to sit in.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Apr 2013)

Oi, never mind your headset; you'll have someone's eye out with those zip ties!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Oi, never mind your headset; you'll have someone's eye out with those zip ties!


 
As it currently stands my singlespeed is intentionally ugly to deter thieves, in its next incarnation it will be much prettier.


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## Scilly Suffolk (22 Apr 2013)

Best price for Stronglight A9: 1) alloy, cartridge bearings or 2) steel, ball bearings. I'm pretty sure the ball bearings will be caged rather than loose.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2013)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> Best price for Stronglight A9: 1) alloy, cartridge bearings or 2) steel, ball bearings. I'm pretty sure the ball bearings will be caged rather than loose.



Ta star!


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## HovR (22 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Some years ago I bought a 32mm spanner off Ebay for headsets. It was sold for something on a LandRover, but 32mm on a Landrover is no different to 32mm on a bike. It is very thin but very heavy and strong and wont bend or deform. I paid about a fiver for it posted. That does the cups and I just use a normal spanner on the lock ring as it doesn't need to be a thin spanner.


 
I use a large pair of these 







Along with one of these:






 (Then again I'm not working with £90 headsets!)


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## Old Plodder (23 Apr 2013)

One thing to watch out for on headset bearings is 'stack height', it can vary a bit.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

fatmac said:


> One thing to watch out for on headset bearings is 'stack height', it can vary a bit.


 
Duly noted ta.


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## jonny jeez (23 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> As it currently stands my singlespeed is intentionally ugly to deter thieves, in its next incarnation it will be much prettier.


Its working.






I am only kidding, honest...i just cant do smilies from an ipad!


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> Its working.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

U.G.L.Y

Ungainly
Gangly
Leg
Yutz




Okay, I struggled with 'Y' a little there.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> Best price for Stronglight A9: 1) alloy, cartridge bearings or 2) steel, ball bearings. I'm pretty sure the ball bearings will be caged rather than loose.


 
I feel like a bit of plum for asking this, but I've just measured the ID of the top tube using some vernier callipers here at work and the ID is 1.18" so will that Stronglight threaded headset still be okay?


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## compo (23 Apr 2013)

You need to know:
The internal diameter of the crown race, the internal diameter of your head tube, and the external diameter of the steerer tube, which is probably 1". Then you will need to have some idea of the stack height. The reason for getting the ID of the headtube is so you can get the correct size cups to press into the headtube. For example on mine the headtube is 30mm, the crown race is 27mm and the steerer 25.4mm. Essentially they are the three critical measurements that are usually listed with headsets. Stack heights you will need to work out as well.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> You need to know:
> The internal diameter of the crown race, the internal diameter of your head tube, and the external diameter of the steerer tube, which is probably 1". Then you will need to have some idea of the stack height. The reason for getting the ID of the headtube is so you can get the correct size cups to press into the headtube. For example on mine the headtube is 30mm, the crown race is 27mm and the steerer 25.4mm. Essentially they are the three critical measurements that are usually listed with headsets. Stack heights you will need to work out as well.


 
Thank you, I shall grab some vernier callipers tomorrow and set about measuring things!


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## Scilly Suffolk (23 Apr 2013)

Scroll down to "headsets".

Ps It's just a 1" ISO/BSC you need, quite standard, not complicated.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> Scroll down to "headsets".
> 
> Ps It's just a 1" ISO/BSC you need, quite standard, not complicated.



So there are hundreds of variants? Phew!


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## TheDoctor (24 Apr 2013)

In your position, I'd get thee to your LBS, hand the frame and forks over and ask them to fit a headset.
Fitting one if you haven't got the tools is nerve-wracking, as it involved improvised presses or a hammer.


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## Andrew_Culture (24 Apr 2013)

TheDoctor said:


> In your position, I'd get thee to your LBS, hand the frame and forks over and ask them to fit a headset.
> Fitting one if you haven't got the tools is nerve-wracking, as it involved improvised presses or a hammer.



I might well enlist the help of my friendly local bike doctor.


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## fossyant (25 Apr 2013)

HovR said:


> I use a large pair of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Argh. Cant use stuff like that - you'll scratch the finish !

Will admit it was nerve wracking fitting the DA headset to the best bike.


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> Argh. Cant use stuff like that - you'll scratch the finish !
> 
> Will admit it was nerve wracking fitting the DA headset to the best bike.


 
Agreed, I'm going from ratty commuter to classic beauty.

I have bought a headset spanner


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Agreed, I'm going from ratty commuter to classic beauty.
> 
> I have bought a headset spanner


 
Coward.


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Coward.


 
The decision is more led by fiscal reasons; I need to get it right first time without breaking anything. I'm cycling round your way this Sunday btw!


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

Where are you going. How many for coffee and cake?

And I agree with getting the right tools for the job whenever possible.


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Where are you going. How many for coffee and cake?
> 
> And I agree with getting the right tools for the job whenever possible.


 
Here's the route...

Just me and one of the Ipswich Single Speed lot at the moment. I've got to be home by 10am!


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Here's the route...
> 
> Just me and one of the Ipswich Single Speed lot at the moment. I've got to be home by 10am!


 
Looks a nice ride, and Gosfield lake is a pleasant spot. 

It isn't really my way though. I left Sudbury 6 years ago and moved to Harlow after my flat fire then got married and been in Harlow ever since.


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Looks a nice ride, and Gosfield lake is a pleasant spot.
> 
> It isn't really my way though. I left Sudbury 6 years ago and moved to Harlow after my flat fire then got married and been in Harlow ever since.


 
I was kinda lumping the whole of Essex in together then!


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

I have just heard from the powder coaters, my frame is ready for collection, so I may be fitting my new threaded headset later on!


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> I have just heard from the powder coaters, my frame is ready for collection, so I may be fitting my new threaded headset later on!


 
I know it's presumptuous of me, but I'd love to be able to dump work for the day and come and learn how to do this!


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I know it's presumptuous of me, but I'd love to be able to dump work for the day and come and learn how to do this!


 
We've already told you. A 4lb lump hammer. 

Failing that I have to go to a DIY store and buy either a long nut and bolt or some threaded studding to fabricate an insertion tool. I would have no objection to your company but I can't say when I am going to do the job as it depends on getting the threaded studding and coach washers.


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## Andrew_Culture (25 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> We've already told you. A 4lb lump hammer.
> 
> Failing that I have to go to a DIY store and buy either a long nut and bolt or some threaded studding to fabricate an insertion tool. I would have no objection to your company but I can't say when I am going to do the job as it depends on getting the threaded studding and coach washers.


 
There's also the small matter of me needing to be at work!

Could I trouble you to take a photo of your insertion tool (paging @Fnaar) I work at an engineering firm so I should be able to cobble something together if I know what to aim for!


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> There's also the small matter of me needing to be at work!
> 
> Could I trouble you to take a photo of your insertion tool (paging @Fnaar) I work at an engineering firm so I should be able to cobble something together if I know what to aim for!


 
In the end I didn't need an insertion tool, everything fitted together with hard hand pressure and just a gentle tap with a rubber hammer to just finish the locating. I have put a couple of pictures and text in the "what have you fettled today" thread.

Have a look at this on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEADSET-P..._Cycling_Tools_RepairKits&hash=item19dae46c64

If you can get the studding free, say M10, and some coach washers or make your own it is easy. You dont actually need a handle, a nut top and bottom will do the same job.


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## HovR (25 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> Argh. Cant use stuff like that - you'll scratch the finish !
> 
> Will admit it was nerve wracking fitting the DA headset to the best bike.


 
Normally I'd agree with you, but all my bikes with threaded headsets are still on the original run-of-the-mill headset which already has it's fair share of cosmetic wear. No fancy Shimano stuff here. 

When it comes to getting a new headset (if my current ones ever wear out.. they've lasted 20+ years, don't see them breaking any time soon!) I'll be investing in some proper headset spanners to save the finish.


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## compo (25 Apr 2013)

HovR said:


> Normally I'd agree with you, but all my bikes with threaded headsets are still on the original run-of-the-mill headset which already has it's fair share of cosmetic wear. No fancy Shimano stuff here.
> 
> When it comes to getting a new headset (if my current ones ever wear out.. they've lasted 20+ years, don't see them breaking any time soon!) I'll be investing in some proper headset spanners to save the finish.


 
The original Raleigh components I replaced because they are rusty are far superior quality to the new one, and the bearing tracks look pretty well untouched. Not bad for a 1980's bike. I am going to keep all the bits as I know someone who will be able to rechrome them for me on the QT at his work when I can get in touch with him. I bought a new set as he is a bit long winded, 3 months to do little jobs isn't unusual!


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