# Brompton for beginners questions



## e-rider (25 Nov 2016)

I've never owned a folder but I've been looking at the Brompton bike builder and have a few questions that experienced 'folder' users shold eb able to answer hopefully:

1. extended seatpost - at 6'2" I guess I need this?
2. handlebars - how low are the straight bars? As a tall person, the saddle will be quite high so will the flat bars then be too low? I generally don't want a 'sit up and beg' position, but...... not too low either
3. gear ratios - I was thinking to pay the extra for 6-speed, but there are different sized chainrings available - is the 'standard' size suitable for general riding or do people find it generally quite low or high?


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## John the Monkey (25 Nov 2016)

e-rider said:


> I've never owned a folder but I've been looking at the Brompton bike builder and have a few questions that experienced 'folder' users shold eb able to answer hopefully:
> 
> 1. extended seatpost - at 6'2" I guess I need this?
> 2. handlebars - how low are the straight bars? As a tall person, the saddle will be quite high so will the flat bars then be too low? I generally don't want a 'sit up and beg' position, but...... not too low either
> 3. gear ratios - I was thinking to pay the extra for 6-speed, but there are different sized chainrings available - is the 'standard' size suitable for general riding or do people find it generally quite low or high?


1) I'm the same height, and I'd say yes.

2) Ok - they give you a slightly more crouched position than the other bars (but do restrict your choice of front luggage, although I use a "C" bag with no problems. Try a test ride if you can (most Brompton dealers will let you out on a demo bike, ime). Aerodynamics is a relative concept on the Brompton, anyway - even on the S bars, it feels like a bike that's heavily affected by headwinds. 

3) I've seen more complaints that it's high than anything else. Personally, I find standard is ok, but as I'm in Cheshire, our hills tend to be short & sharp, and there aren't many of them.

Other stuff - get a front luggage block - the luggage is really good, and it's worth having the block fitted given the low cost. Watch for cable rub - especially around the seat tube where the rear cables pass it, and around the BB. Stick some good quality frame protectors on before you lose a coat of paint. (I'd use those thick Bikehut ones, personally).


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## TheDoctor (25 Nov 2016)

I'd add - if there's any chance you'll want 6 gears, get them at the outset.
Upgrading to 6 gears later is expensive and involves a new back wheel.
And yes, standard Brommie gearing is a bit high IMHO. I've gone from a 50T chainset to a 44T/34T on what I suppose I have to now call an M12R.


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## Kell (25 Nov 2016)

I'm just under 6" and I needed the extended seatpost. Just be aware that it doesn't fold down as small as one with a normal height one.

Mine goes in the boot of our Mini Convertible (just) with the extended seatpost, but I had to cut off most of the rubber bung on the bottom to make it fit.

Conversely, when I hired one, it had the telescopic seatpost and this fitted OK.

Here are the relative heights of the bars from the ground - note that the stems differ on all, and it's not an easy job to swap the bars out, without having to buy a new stem too, so getting it right upfront is worth the time. On my test rides, I thought the S was too low and the M too upright. In the end, I bought an H type and fitted low riser bars to get something in between the two.














As you can see, the extra height of the H type, made fitting longer bar-ends more of a possibility.






As for gearing, I agree with what's said above, if you think you might need 6-speeds, do it at the outset.

I bought one with standard gearing, and originally found 6 too tall. But as my legs have got used to the Brompton's gearing, I've actually fitted a smaller cog on the rear to give me more of a top end. I now mostly use 5 and 6 while moving and 4 for setting off from lights. 5th is good to about 18-19mph and 6 is good to about 22-25mph.

I only use 1 for the hills in high Wycombe. 2 and 3 really don't get much (if any) use.


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## 12boy (25 Nov 2016)

Kell, it would seem to my untrained eye your handlebars are rotated forwards which would appear to have the ends further forward than the center. If this is to get your hands further forward, you might consider an Aber Hallo stem which allows for about 2 inches of forward placement or even upward since it rotates on an axis in line with stem handle bar opening. Many who use one couple this with a QR replacing the handle bar bolt so as to be able to adjust this so it still folds properly. The front of the Aber Hallo is removable via 4 Allen bolts so swapping bars is possible without removing grips etc. I have an S model and originally thought I would like some North Road type bars so the grips approached a 45 degree angle instead of flat and the Aber Hallo would allow me to still fold the front down properly. Ultimately went with flat bars and bar ends but I have retained the QR on the handle bar stem because I lost the bolt and it is an odd size hard to find here. It is another option for e-rider too.


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## SavageHoutkop (25 Nov 2016)

My advice is to try before you buy if at all possible. Mr SHK had M bars the first time, and when we had to replace the bike the H bars had been added to the lineup, and he has chosen that instead of the M bars despite the more upright riding position.


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## reppans (25 Nov 2016)

If you are in good cycling shape, club rider, or young and strong, that can average 15+ mph on a road bike, I think I'd stick to the stock 6speed gearing or even go +8%. Otherwise, for more recreational riding (<15 avg), hilly terrain, and loaded touring, I'd go with -12% chainring. I have the -12% and find 4th good for cruising ~12-15mph, and 5th ~16-19mph, my most often used gears.

I like lower bars for less wind resistance, but went with the M-bars for the larger T-bag which I use for touring. I've since rigged a lower "drop bar" aero grip position in bottom of the "U" on my M-bars that I use for headwinds and the smooth flats - it helps me sustain a higher gear than otherwise. Also have Ergon GP2 bar-end grips, so have 3 comfortable grip positions.


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## e-rider (25 Nov 2016)

SavageHoutkop said:


> My advice is to try before you buy if at all possible. Mr SHK had M bars the first time, and when we had to replace the bike the H bars had been added to the lineup, and he has chosen that instead of the M bars despite the more upright riding position.


I'm between M or S - the H will defo be too high. I will see if I can try both before deciding


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## smutchin (25 Nov 2016)

e-rider said:


> 1. extended seatpost - at 6'2" I guess I need this?



I know others have answered this already but I'll just add that I'm 5'9" and have the standard seatpost fully extended.



> 2. handlebars - how low are the straight bars? As a tall person, the saddle will be quite high so will the flat bars then be too low? I generally don't want a 'sit up and beg' position, but...... not too low either



I have the M bars on mine but if I were buying a new Brompton now, I would definitely go for the S bars - not so much because they're lower but because I find the M bars too flexy.



> 3. gear ratios - I was thinking to pay the extra for 6-speed, but there are different sized chainrings available - is the 'standard' size suitable for general riding or do people find it generally quite low or high?



This is such a difficult one to answer because it varies so much between individuals. I'm no masher but I always found the standard gearing too low - and I had a fairly steep hill on my regular commute. But I know I'm in a minority and most people prefer the reduced gearing.

I guess I've just got incredibly powerful legs. So powerful, in fact, that I once managed to shear the crank off the chainring when pulling away from the lights (or maybe it's because the original components were made of cheese). After that, I replaced it with a much bigger chainset and found the gearing spot on. (The current generation of Bromptons have a much improved design of chainset with a spider and replaceable chainring.)

If I were buying a Brompton now, I'd go for the two-speed option for simplicity. I did run my Brompton as singlespeed for a while and I loved it - even raced in the Brompton World Championship on singlespeed and finished well inside the top 100 even though I lost time through stopping to put my seatpost up because it had slipped.


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## Lonestar (25 Nov 2016)

I haven't got an extended seatpost and I'm 6'2" but I have the P handelbars.


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## jay clock (25 Nov 2016)

In terms of seatpost I am 5,9 with 32 inch leg and perfect with the standard seatpost fully up

Gears I changed my chainring to a 44 (with 3 speed) I can do up to 20mph on the flat in top gear. Easy gear is not too easy either


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## samsbike (25 Nov 2016)

I am 6ft and I found the standard seatpost too short, so I think you will need the extended or telescopic post.

I had a S bar version and much prefer it to the M which I demoed. However the new 'M' has a slighter longer stem and less of a rise in the bars, so maybe much better. Note I have not measured this but I was in my local Evans and they had the new and 'old' model side by side.

Also think about which tires you want and whether you want a rack or not.

I found the standard gearing fine on the six speed and I am neither quick nor fit.

Good luck


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## shouldbeinbed (25 Nov 2016)

5`11 & was at the limit of the standard post with the saddle rails on the top side of the pentaclip. 

Bars. I want for the S and was quite happy on them, certainly didn't want the M type; even though I am a sitter upper and beggar of a rider; they didn't give me the same solid feeling or confidence I could really throw it about like flatter ones. I put cowhorn ones on like @Kell in the end cos. I have a problematic neck. 

Gears. Oldham, up and down Pennine foothills, long drags and short sharp shocks and was happy on the standard 3 speed. I appreciate I'm in the minority on here but really didn't have any problems other than spinning out going downhill.


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## e-rider (28 Nov 2016)

extended seatpost it is then, and standard 6-speed gearing
just need to test ride the different bars but at the moment I'm thinking S


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## samsbike (28 Nov 2016)

My inclination would be get the M and then change the bars to something lower. This is because you have the longer cables and can cut them to fit. Its more of a pain going from flat bars to riser bars. Going from high rise to low rise is easier.

Also the new m bars are around 3cm shorter than the old ones and may feel better.


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## e-rider (28 Nov 2016)

samsbike said:


> My inclination would be get the M and then change the bars to something lower. This is because you have the longer cables and can cut them to fit. Its more of a pain going from flat bars to riser bars. Going from high rise to low rise is easier.
> 
> Also the new m bars are around 3cm shorter than the old ones and may feel better.


yes but the handlebar extension is much shorter with M bars, so changing to striaght bars would give an ultra-low position, much lower than the normal S bars so I don't think that would work very well at all


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## reppans (28 Nov 2016)

This is what Brompton mentions about the new 2017 M bars:


> *Evolved handlebar shape: *a shallower handlebar rise and longer stem assembly combination provides a stiffer, more modern looking front end with increased grip area, whilst maintaining the original riding position.


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## fivelittlefish (28 Nov 2016)

S version with mild riser bars is what worked for me...


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## samsbike (28 Nov 2016)

That would be logical but I guess they issue would be that the by doing that one of the bars would be too high or low.

Is the longest stem on the S version then?


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## cheys03 (28 Nov 2016)

Yes I think so. But remember it bends forwards which restricts which bags you can 'officially' fit, though most will fit with a bit of modification or care.
I'm tempted to go H with risers on my next B for this reason like Kell.


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## srw (28 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Why do they make the S with a longer stem than the M, and then put the risers on the M to make it higher? Why not have a common stem and less rise on the M bars


I thought that the 2017 stems were the same.


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## Kell (29 Nov 2016)

e-rider said:


> I'm between M or S - the H will defo be too high. I will see if I can try both before deciding



This is exactly where I was.

Preferred the look of the S, and found it OK on a test ride, but with a dodgy back I figured it was probably too low. The M was more comfortable, and would probably have been the route I went down, had I not spoken to the guy in the Brompton junction who said that some people buy the S and put small risers on them.

A little googling led me to this site and I then found out about the H type, which I figured would be better for what I wanted to do. If you look back at my pictures, you'll see the cables ended up being way too long, but I figured it would be easier to shorten long cables, than have to buy new cables if going from an S to a slightly heightened S made them too short.

As it turns out, it's not that simple with a Brompton (few things are), but I got there in the end.

I didn't know the stem heights had been changed for 2017, but that might make your decision a little easier.


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## Kell (29 Nov 2016)

The other thing to consider is the real estate on your bars. 

Flat bars mean you can line up all your 'bits'. M bars means there's not much space for attaching speedometers/lights/Garmins/phones etc.


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## samsbike (29 Nov 2016)

Ok for the sake of science I went and measured everything and voila
Measured from just above the headset widest ring stem length/ grip height


p stem 31cm. Top bar 48cm
s stem 37cm
Old style m bars 32cm , bar height 45cm 
New style m bars 35cm, bar height 45cm 
H bar 38cm, bar height 50cm

Hope this helps. TBH I forgot to check which year they were but I don't think stems are the same height.

Looking at them the H seems the best with that long stem and then fit short risers.


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## mitchibob (27 Dec 2016)

e-rider said:


> 2. handlebars - how low are the straight bars? As a tall person, the saddle will be quite high so will the flat bars then be too low? I generally don't want a 'sit up and beg' position, but...... not too low either



I rode a brompton bike hire model for a few months, which are M3Ls, plus took an S2L for a test ride. For me, with a slightly dodgy back, the ride position of the S bar was a little uncomfortable. But the S bar did feel better for steering, and you can get more gadgets on it more easily if you need to do that. However, with the M-bar, you get a better choice of luggage options at the front, and I'm always amazed how much I can carry in the touring bag when riding home from the supermarket. For the flexing, they do sell a cross-brace thing that stiffens bar and makes gives it a longer life, although I couldn't find one in stock last time I looked.



e-rider said:


> 3. gear ratios - I was thinking to pay the extra for 6-speed, but there are different sized chainrings available - is the 'standard' size suitable for general riding or do people find it generally quite low or high?



When I was first looking at Bromptons, I assumed I'd need a 6 speed, but actually, it really depends on where you are and how you're using it. I commute about 8 miles to work in London on mine, and after riding the 3 speed for a few months, and trying a 2 speed, I went for the 2 speed and haven't been beaten by any hills in London yet. I found I was only really using the higher two of the gears on the 3-speed anyway, plus it's quite a bit lighter to carry folded.

Also, with the single or 2-speed, if you do need to remove the rear wheel for a puncture or anything, it's less fiddly, as although you have to remove the chain tensioner, you don't have to re-adjust the hub gear.

For me, the 2-speed felt more efficient than a bike withe a hub gear, but I can envisage wanting a 6 speed as well, and as others have mentioned, it's not exactly a cheap upgrade. But I don't miss the ticking of the hub gear. If it's making a noise while I'm pedalling, surely it can't be converting all my energy into forward movement?


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## TheDoctor (28 Dec 2016)

That ticking noise is endemic to hub gears. It's the non driven parts for each gear ratio freewheeling past the driven parts (gross oversimplification alert!) It's not a significant power loss, especially compared with the unaerodynamic element in the saddle ie us


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## 12boy (28 Dec 2016)

I have read that a broken in (not down) SA 3 speed with oil instead of grease lubrication, approaches 99% efficiency. This is comparable to a clean, properly adjusted derailleur. Apparently the SA 3 speed design with the aluminum shell is also the lightest and reliable 3 speed choice. The 3 speed I am referring to is the standard 177% model but I don't know why the 256 % Brompton wide range would be different. SRF3 at 970 grams.


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## simongt (28 Dec 2016)

In Frank J. Berto's book 'The Dancing Chain' a very detailed tome about the history & development of the derailleur, he did some rigorous testing of many drive trains; hub & derailleur and concluded that the derailleur is about 3 - 4% more efficient than an oil lubed 3 speed SA hub gear. The modern hubs are a little less efficient because of the custom of 'packed for life' grease lubing. However, he says that 7 speed hubs are 'significantly less efficient' than 3 speed hubs.


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## 12boy (29 Dec 2016)

A drawback for dérailleur on small wheel bikes is that to be able to shift a big gear range they hang down to close to the ground. Brompton are the exception because they have a chain mover and the chain tensioner stays pretty close to the chain. I am considering putting an IGH on my 20 inch for winter when it would drag through the snow


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## simongt (29 Dec 2016)

One reason why three of my five bikes have hub gears; 3 spd., 5 spd., & 8 spd Sturmeys. In colder winters, I've experienced ice building up on the cassette which then makes shifting difficult - unless you frequently clear the ice which on a longish commute is a pain.


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## mitchibob (1 Jan 2017)

simongt said:


> One reason why three of my five bikes have hub gears; 3 spd., 5 spd., & 8 spd Sturmeys. In colder winters, I've experienced ice building up on the cassette which then makes shifting difficult - unless you frequently clear the ice which on a longish commute is a pain.



In London, with global warming, I'm thinking this wont be a problem. Although I have experienced slow shifts in heavy rain that I didn't with the hub gear. I'm still happier overall with the 2-speed though.

It is easy to reattach the chain tensioner in such a way that you can still pedal, but no longer change gear, and if you try and fold the bike, the chain falls off, but I reckon you only do that once ;-)


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## simonsch (5 Jan 2017)

I have a 6-speed with the -12% gearing. Which I got mostly so that I can get off the train on the way home one stop earlier in Guildford, and head up Farnham Rd hill (cat 4) to cut through to home. However, it turns out that I have never even got into the lowest gear - I use 2 and 3 on the way up. At the same time, I haven't felt the need for a higher gear than 6. I actually think the gearing ratio set is too wide even for hilly Surrey... (I frequently find however that I am limit cycling between 4 and 5 and would appreciate something in between...)


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## 12boy (6 Jan 2017)

I bought a 1 speed (12-52) and later added a 177% 3 speed (14 tooth cog), and later yet found that if I went with a 130 BCD chain ring I could add a 38 tooth chain ring. In terms of cost and weight I could have simply a 2 speed and had a fairly wide gear ration with a lot less weight. Of course, the 38 and the 3 speed I get a low gear that is very low.


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## e-rider (6 Jan 2017)

I'm surprised Brompton haven't offered a 20" wheel version - yes it would be slightly larger but the ride would be so much better - I guess with Brompton sales through the roof they have no need to launch new products


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## reppans (6 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> I'm surprised Brompton haven't offered a 20" wheel version - yes it would be slightly larger but the ride would be so much better - I guess with Brompton sales through the roof they have no need to launch new products



I don't know, I really like Brompton's formula. After matching the suspension block for my weight well, I find it is just as comfortable as my 700x32 CX/gravel bike, or 20" Big Apple Dahon. The small size and versatility of Brompton's fold, however, just leaves everything else behind (or left at home).


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## TheDoctor (6 Jan 2017)

It's maybe because Bromptons are designed specifically for multi-mode commuting. If you increase the folded size then it won't fit in as many of the nooks and crannies on a train that it currently does fit. There's plenty of people making 20 inch wheel bikes, but I think Brompton have found their niche and are happy to own that space.


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## simonsch (6 Jan 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> It's maybe because Bromptons are designed specifically for multi-mode commuting. If you increase the folded size then it won't fit in a many of the nooks and crannies on a tran that it currently does fit. There's plenty of people making 20 inch wheel bikes, but I think Brompton have found their niche and are happy to own that space.



Yes, I think Brompton have really got the formula pretty much right, they have after all been carefully optimising for years, and it is really a very clever design on which every minor point has clearly been thought about very carefully. I WOULD say that they are a little over-engineered though - they make a point of saying that a 120kg guy can just get on and run off a kerb on it. Well, fine, but I am 73 kg and would happily trade off a little of that robustness for a slightly lighter bike.


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## 12boy (6 Jan 2017)

I really like the solid feeling my Brompton has. If it were basically the same but made out of some lighter/stronger alloy i would be pleased with the loss but I don't think I would prefer a lighter frame made for hi-ten steel or whatever the Bromptons are made from.


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## TheDoctor (7 Jan 2017)

Funnily enough, I have ridden a bike with pivots in the frame. Perfectly doable, though it looks terrifying. Wobbly John of this parish built it for Hilldodger IIRC.
Personally, I like the fact that Brommie can take a rider of, shall we say, a traditional build, combined with luggage and a half-case of wine. Not that I'm a fat bugger with an incipient drink problem or anything, but I'd sooner have over-engineered than fragility.


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## reppans (7 Jan 2017)

I don't mind the Brompton's weight, in the mere 7 months that I've owned it, it has been carried further than all my other bikes combined, (incl. a 10 y.o. Dahon). The compact, tightly locked package means I can flip it upside down and carry it 5-gallon-water-cooler-jug-style on top my shoulder, which makes it feel like half its weight. I can carry it through my entire home at a normal walking pace - narrow hallways, stairs, and a free hand to open/close doors, included.


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## chriscross1966 (7 Jan 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> Funnily enough, I have ridden a bike with pivots in the frame. Perfectly doable, though it looks terrifying. Wobbly John of this parish built it for Hilldodger IIRC.
> Personally, I like the fact that Brommie can take a rider of, shall we say, a traditional build, combined with luggage and a half-case of wine. Not that I'm a fat bugger with an incipient drink problem or anything, but I'd sooner have over-engineered than fragility.



Just that, I'm not thin and knowing that I can do the weekend shopping and get it all in the T-pannier is great. I've had 3 cases of beer in there without it affecting the steering, you need frame-fixed luggage for that.


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## TheDoctor (7 Jan 2017)

Love you too, sweetie!


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## e-rider (11 Jan 2017)

are the Brompton standard tyres any good? Schwalbe - worth the upgrade?


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## chriscross1966 (12 Jan 2017)

The Marathon Plus are pretty indestructable in use, but I don't envy the guy at Warlands who will be trying to get a pair onto the carbon rims I just got....


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## summerdays (12 Jan 2017)

Do you also get the standard Marathon tyres in Brompton size? That's what I have on my normal bike and it seems to be a good compromise between protection versus pain in the neck to put on, weight.


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## chriscross1966 (12 Jan 2017)

Yes, the three tyres you normally see are Bromptons own Kojak plus the two shorts of Schwalbe Marathon


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## Fab Foodie (12 Jan 2017)

I had the Standard Brommie tyres and found they rode well and until the rear got thin were pretty P* resistant. I replaced them when somewhere was selling Marathon plus cheap. BTW, they were not difficult to get on the rims.
I preferred the ride and feel of the Brompton tyres. The Marathons are a bit stodgier and skittish in the wet, but as I travel around and tour with this bike it's worth the extra security that the M+ should provide.

@chriscross1966 good chaps in Warlands.....


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## John the Monkey (12 Jan 2017)

I found the Brompton Greens to be ok (they're what came with the bike). since then, I've had Marathon Plus, and Marathon Green Guard (Brompton punctures are a PITA).


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## 12boy (12 Jan 2017)

When you put marathons on a rim, put the part with the valve stem on last. Work the inner tube inside the tire all the way around and as you get closer to the stem area pinch the tire and tube on the area you did first so as to make them go in the narrow channel where the spoke heads are. This gives you a little extra slack to get over those last few inches on the rim. I destroyed a number of tires by ripping the bead with tire irons before I learned this. I also learned that plastic tire levers are too thick to work well and narrow steel ones work much better. By using the valve stem thing I can usually get a marathon back on with minimal tire levering and sometimes only with my thumbs. I have a 20 inch folder which came with Kenda Kwests and in comparison to Schwalbe they almost floated on. I have heard that using Stan's Sealant in inner tubes is far more effective than Slime, and will try that next fall.


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## chriscross1966 (12 Jan 2017)

Fab Foodie said:


> I had the Standard Brommie tyres and found they rode well and until the rear got thin were pretty P* resistant. I replaced them when somewhere was selling Marathon plus cheap. BTW, they were not difficult to get on the rims.
> I preferred the ride and feel of the Brompton tyres. The Marathons are a bit stodgier and skittish in the wet, but as I travel around and tour with this bike it's worth the extra security that the M+ should provide.
> 
> @chriscross1966 good chaps in Warlands.....



Definitely, I've just ordered one of those Campagnolo branded spatulas for putting tires on carbon rims though, as sooner or later I will have to do it myself..


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## mitchibob (28 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> are the Brompton standard tyres any good? Schwalbe - worth the upgrade?



I found the rolling resistance to be better on the standard tyres than the Marathons, but I did get a lot of front punctures. They are really only suitable for reasonable good roads. After getting 3 in two weeks in winter, I switched over to Marathons. Not difficult to get on the rims, but are definitely heavier. Really need to keep them at 80psi+, otherwise they can feel like riding through treacle, and never quite certain of grip in wet around corners.

I might have to give the Kojaks a go in summer. But also semi-tempted to try solid tyres, and not carry a spare tube and pump at all.

As the alternatives are regularly on offer and wont cost much more than getting them with the bike, I'd say get the Brompton standards, if you're mostly ride on roads. However, if you're doing any slight off-roading, get the tougher Marathon or Marathon plus.


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## SavageHoutkop (29 Jan 2017)

Or, if you live in a studenty area, get the marathon plusses. SO MUCH GLASS *sobs*


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## TheDoctor (29 Jan 2017)

Standard Marathons have served me very well for the last five years.
More visitation-repellant than the standard tyres, although perhaps a touch slower.
You definitely want to keep them pumped to 90psi or more.


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## mitchibob (21 Feb 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> Standard Marathons have served me very well for the last five years.
> More visitation-repellant than the standard tyres, although perhaps a touch slower.
> You definitely want to keep them pumped to 90psi or more.



I bought myself a track pump at the same as the tyres so that I could easily top them up to 90-95 psi each week or so.


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## oxford_guy (3 Mar 2017)

I wish they did Schwalbe Supremes in Bromptom size, I switched to 32mm ones of these on my full-size Hewitt touring bike about 3 years ago and absolutely love them, they're pretty hard wearing and reasonably puncture resistant, but the main thing is that they're so much nicer to ride on than standard Marathons and Marathon Plus tyres and much faster. They also come with a folding bead (so you can carry a spare easily, if desired) and are very easy to get on and off the rim. I had a set of Marathon Plus tyres and hated how they made the bike feel. Most of my touring is on roads, though, but they stand up to canal tow paths and the like.


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## Kell (3 Mar 2017)

I can't say I've noticed much wrong the the plusses I bought for mine.

My original Marathon tyre lasted about 2,500 miles on the rear before chunks just started dropping off it and revealing the green layer under the rubber.


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## e-rider (4 Mar 2017)

so, I just picked up my new Brompton! It looks nice, the welding is very good and all the decals are straight which makes my OCD very happy. However, I 've got a few minor problems. First, the handlebars are not in line with the front wheel - on a 'normal' bike this would eb easy to adjust but I'm guessing it needs slightly more thought here - please help.
I've noticed that the rear tyre (when folded) is pressed hard against the frame/BB area - is this correct? It looks like it will wear the paint away quite soon.

It's a M6L


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## John the Monkey (4 Mar 2017)

e-rider said:


> so, I just picked up my new Brompton! It looks nice, the welding is very good and all the decals are straight which makes my OCD very happy. However, I 've got a few minor problems. First, the handlebars are not in line with the front wheel - on a 'normal' bike this would eb easy to adjust but I'm guessing it needs slightly more thought here - please help.
> I've noticed that the rear tyre (when folded) is pressed hard against the frame/BB area - is this correct? It looks like it will wear the paint away quite soon.
> 
> It's a M6L


Don't know about your bars - I'd be tempted to take it to the shop, my experience of my local Brompton dealer has been very positive.

On the tyre, IIRC, it does this in the parking fold (at least on my bike, S6L)- once the seatpost goes in, the tyre is held further away. There's a stop that sits against the post in that latter configuration that you may be able to adjust to make the tyre sit further away (by changing the angle of the rear triangle in relation to the seat post).

I would look at the bike carefully now, and protect the parts that suffer cable rub. IME, that's the side of the seat tube that the rear brake & gear cables run along, the underside of the bb shell that these cables rub when the bike is folded, and the area you've identified as being rubbed by the tyre in a parking fold.


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## annedonnelly (4 Mar 2017)

e-rider said:


> I've noticed that the rear tyre (when folded) is pressed hard against the frame/BB area - is this correct? It looks like it will wear the paint away quite soon.


Did you get Marathon Pluses? That's what I have - mine didn't used to rub there but did after I replaced the tyre. I think the "new, improved" Marathon Plus is slightly bigger than the previous version. I noticed a similar issue on my hybrid - the new improved M+ are more likely to rub on the mudguard which doesn't have a lot of clearance at the best of times.

And yes, it'll quickly take the paint off there.


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## e-rider (4 Mar 2017)

annedonnelly said:


> Did you get Marathon Pluses? That's what I have - mine didn't used to rub there but did after I replaced the tyre. I think the "new, improved" Marathon Plus is slightly bigger than the previous version. I noticed a similar issue on my hybrid - the new improved M+ are more likely to rub on the mudguard which doesn't have a lot of clearance at the best of times.
> 
> And yes, it'll quickly take the paint off there.


I have the Brompton tyres - seems like a design that could be improved as I can't see what benefit is gained from having the tyre touch the frame?


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## e-rider (5 Mar 2017)

after a bit more tinkering, I've noticed a large number of very 'cheap' parts on my £1075 bike. Also all the cables don't have any grease and are already notchy and noisey before I've even been for a ride so they wont last long once I'm out in the rain. Also the chainring has an awful bend in it - this would clearly have been spotted at some point during assembly but has made it through anyway - £25 for a replacement or a whole load of hassle on warranty. Quite happy but disappointed at the same time. Set-up was the usual BS from manufacutuers/retail shop - couldn't even be arsed to align the brake pads, handlebars or even pump the tyres beyond 50 psi


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## SavageHoutkop (6 Mar 2017)

The tyre does indeed rub. As suggested, get some helicopter tape now and find all the bits where there's rub (both folded / unfolded!) and put some on, will save you longer-term pain.


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## e-rider (6 Mar 2017)

more new-owner questions: the brake calipers seem cheap - it appears that they don't have a Q/R mechanism, and the pads don't hit the rims evenly but unlike Shimano pads that have a cone shape washer, these don't have any adjustment
I'm also having trouble with the seatpost slipping down - I've tightened the nut as much as I dare but it still slips


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## Kell (7 Mar 2017)

The brakes have a small allen bolt which you can adjust to 'centre' the caliper.

But you do have to deflate the tyres to get them out.


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## benb (7 Mar 2017)

Might be a bit late, but I found the standard gearing on the 6 speed I bought very over-geared.
Maybe I'm just more comfortable with spinning in a lower gear than plodding in a higher, but I almost never use the top gear, and find I'm expending more energy than I'd like on some fairly minor hills. If I was doing it again, I'd get the lower gear option. Obviously I could buy a smaller chainring.

If I rode it more, I'd be very tempted to get the 8 speed conversion and ditch the BWD.


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

benb said:


> If I rode it more, I'd be very tempted to get the 8 speed conversion and ditch the BWD.


That conversion may introduce you to a whole 'nother world of pain. Several threads on here with experiences, including my own. If you're still keen, go with Tiller, not Kinetics.


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## benb (7 Mar 2017)

velovoice said:


> That conversion may introduce you to a whole 'nother world of pain. Several threads on here with experiences, including my own. If you're still keen, go with Tiller, not Kinetics.



Thanks for the heads up. I don't ride it enough to warrant such an expensive outlay, but I might buy a smaller chainring instead.


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

benb said:


> a smaller chainring instead.


Yes, much easier and cheaper, quicker to fit -- and no effect on the fold.


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## Kell (7 Mar 2017)

velovoice said:


> Yes, much easier and cheaper, quicker to fit -- and no effect on the fold.



By that, I take it the 8-speed conversion does affect the fold?


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

Kell said:


> By that, I take it the 8-speed conversion does affect the fold?


The fold and a helluva lot of functional things as well. You spend a lot of time installing (and then removing) various spacers, maybe even your bottom bracket, other crap, back and forth. Fix one problem, create another. Not every kit is exactly the same. Ben doesn't answer the phone (famous for it, actually), when he does he says "hmmm, that's a problem for some bikes/kits, not others - not really sure what to suggest for yours". A real PITA. Not worth it.


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

Just part of my tale -- I never got round to doing a follow-up but the end result is that I jettisoned the whole thing and went with a JTEK 3-speed wheelset from SJS. In my blog post I included links to a succession of blog posts by the guy who writes the Pedalitis blog. After a lot of time and money, he got a result he was happy with but he had to figure out the solutions step-by-step on his own. There is also at least one CC thread on this - will dig it out shortly.


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

velovoice said:


> There is also at least one CC thread on this - will dig it out shortly.


https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/kinetics-8-speed-sa-fitting.201845/

ETA: Sorry I forgot there was another thread that was a forerunner to the above one: 
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/brompton-gear-upgrade.196796/


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## Kell (7 Mar 2017)

Ah yes, i remember that thread now.

I came across an SA 5 speed hub on Bike Gang's website the other day. 

Do you know if anyone's fitted one of those? Seemed to be a fairly cheap way of getting 10 speeds.


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## velovoice (7 Mar 2017)

Kell said:


> I came across an SA 5 speed hub on Bike Gang's website the other day.


Yeah, they were a thing for a while, some years back though, don't think anyone sells them now and I don't know how many are still around... They do turn up on ebay now and again.


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## Kell (7 Mar 2017)

I can't link directly to the Bike Gang page for some reason, but this was the kit:






















At £121, plus a rim, spokes and rebuild, it wouldn't work out that much more expense than a new rear wheel and, hopefully, give an extra 4 gears if everything goes together properly.


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## mitchibob (7 Mar 2017)

e-rider said:


> I'm also having trouble with the seatpost slipping down - I've tightened the nut as much as I dare but it still slips



I had problems with that in the first few days of owning my Brompton. Tightened the nut bit at a time over a few days, until the quick-release was useless and didn't turn the nut anymore, at which point, I returned to the shop and had a new clamp in about 5-10 minutes. That was 8-9 months ago, and only had to slightly tighten the seat post nut once since, and that was a few weeks ago.


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## velovoice (8 Mar 2017)

User said:


> Well, Sturmey Archer still sells them.


Fabulous news! They were seriously a fad at one point, everyone on the BromptonTalk group talking about them, then... nothing. So I assumed the fad had peaked. Good to hear SA still making them, if anyone wants them.


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## srw (8 Mar 2017)

When I bought my first Brompton in 1996 they sold a 5-speed version, based I suspect on that 5-speed hub. Reputedly they had reliability problems which led them to drop the version, but I had no issues at all - over 20,000 heavy-duty miles later when the frame started wearing out (and I sold the bike for 60% of its new price, with full disclosure) the hub was still running very sweetly.


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## Blue Hills (8 Mar 2017)

srw said:


> When I bought my first Brompton in 1996 they sold a 5-speed version, based I suspect on that 5-speed hub. Reputedly they had reliability problems which led them to drop the version, but I had no issues at all - over 20,000 heavy-duty miles later when the frame started wearing out (and I sold the bike for 60% of its new price, with full disclosure) the hub was still running very sweetly.


I have that 5 speed version - can be slightly fernickety but I really like it as there is no derailleuer. With a certain concern, though, can I ask @srw what you mean by the frame wearing out? Mine has been fairly lightly used.


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## srw (8 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I have that 5 speed version - can be slightly fernickety but I really like it as there is no derailleuer. With a certain concern, though, can I ask @srw what you mean by the frame wearing out? Mine has been fairly lightly used.


There's a short strut behind the rear hinge and in front of the rear wheel which braces the frame. After 10 years of daily year-round commuting across central London carrying a heavy rider with a nearly zero maintenance regime that strut had opened up a rust hole.


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## reppans (8 Mar 2017)

On the seat post slipping - wiping down the full seat post, and internal mating surfaces, with alcohol solved my problem. You need to remove the seat and penta-clip to slide the seat post out from the bottom though. After that, don't touch the seat post any more - fold the bike only handling the seat. Skin oils seem to get trapped on that plastic internal sleeve under the clamp.


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## Kell (8 Mar 2017)

I just give mine a light going over with some sandpaper. Roughened it up just enough to ensure there was some grip.


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## e-rider (9 Mar 2017)

benb said:


> Might be a bit late, but I found the standard gearing on the 6 speed I bought very over-geared.
> Maybe I'm just more comfortable with spinning in a lower gear than plodding in a higher, but I almost never use the top gear, and find I'm expending more energy than I'd like on some fairly minor hills. If I was doing it again, I'd get the lower gear option. Obviously I could buy a smaller chainring.
> 
> If I rode it more, I'd be very tempted to get the 8 speed conversion and ditch the BWD.


I find gears, 3,4 and 5 perfect for riding on flat roads with the standard ratios
I would need to go down a good hill for gear 6, or up a good hill for gears 1 and 2


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## benb (9 Mar 2017)

e-rider said:


> I find gears, 3,4 and 5 perfect for riding on flat roads with the standard ratios
> I would need to go down a good hill for gear 6, or up a good hill for gears 1 and 2



Maybe I'm just a wuss then!


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## Kell (9 Mar 2017)

I've got the standard gearing and Ithink I've got used to it now. When I first got my bike I used 3,4 and 5. Now I use 4 as my standing start gear, 5 is my cruising gear and 6 is my feeling on it gear.

I do, however, find it much harder to pedal fast on a Brompton. Achieving a cadence of 80-90 on my road bike is OK, but on a Brompton it feels like you're bobbing all over the place.


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## doginabag (11 Mar 2017)

I have the 6 speed with the larger front chain ring. I tend to use just 2, 4 and 5.

3 is just too close to 2 there is no point having it. 1 is too low to be useful, there are no hills on my commute. And I have only touched on 6 a couple of times, but I rarely have the legs for it.


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## chriscross1966 (12 Mar 2017)

The 96 5-speed used twin shifters didn't it? One was wide ratio, narrow ratio, and the other was low gear, fixed, top gear?


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## srw (12 Mar 2017)

chriscross1966 said:


> The 96 5-speed used twin shifters didn't it? One was wide ratio, narrow ratio, and the other was low gear, fixed, top gear?


No. It was a single shifter. The setup you describe is the current six-speed.


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## chriscross1966 (14 Mar 2017)

srw said:


> No. It was a single shifter. The setup you describe is the current six-speed.


No, current six speed is three speeds in a hub and hi and low ratio on each speed, the old five speed was three speeds and wide/narrow... wide/narrow wouldn't affect the middle ratio as it locked the hub up at 1:1, it was similar to the six speed in that it used two shifters, but was a lot easier to use than the six IMHO.


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## mitchibob (19 Mar 2017)

As much as I don't mind the hub gear, for any hill around London, the 2-speed just feels a little more direct. Not forced myself up swains lane on it yet though, and significantly injury after t-boning a car at 32kph, so won't be for a while.


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## e-rider (12 Apr 2017)

so after a few months use, my gears are not as slick as there were when new. The hub gear is still fine but the 2-speed gear is not running smooth when in the larger of the two sprockets - how do I adjust this?

It's a 6-speed Brommie


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## srw (12 Apr 2017)

chriscross1966 said:


> the old five speed was three speeds and wide/narrow..


Sounds as if there are two five speed versions. The one I had (bought 1996) which I think is the same as what @User has just installed was straight up and down with a single shifter.


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## TheDoctor (12 Apr 2017)

srw said:


> Sounds as if there are two five speed versions. The one I had (bought 1996) which I think is the same as what @User has just installed was straight up and down with a single shifter.


There were. IIRC the older 5 speed was a hack of the 4 speed and had two shift levers, and later the hub was redesigned to have just one shifter.


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## TheDoctor (12 Apr 2017)

e-rider said:


> so after a few months use, my gears are not as slick as there were when new. The hub gear is still fine but the 2-speed gear is not running smooth when in the larger of the two sprockets - how do I adjust this?
> 
> It's a 6-speed Brommie


That's probably a built-up of crud somewhere, either on the sprockets or the jockey wheels.


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## e-rider (14 Apr 2017)

I fixed the dodgy gears by turning the stop screw a little - it now runs smooth
I noticed that one of th front spokes had come completely loose although the wheel was still fairly true.
Also, and this might be useful for potential Brompton owners, I noticed that I never use gear 6 on standard gear ratios, so I essentially have a 5-speed machine with a wasted gear. Having a quick look at Brompton gear ratios I would have been better off buying the lower gear option and I could then have made use of all 6 gears instead of just 5. I could potentially use gear 6 downa steep hill but why would I want to pedal at 30mph+???


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## reppans (14 Apr 2017)

Sorry to hear you've had bit of bad luck with your Brompton sample. It is pretty common for new bikes to 'loosen' up a bit after the first few hundred miles. Most bike shops offer free first tune-ups to adjust/tighten stuff after break-in. I ordered the -12% gearing (50>44T) and 4th, 5th, 6th spin out around 15, 20, 25 mph, respectively, for me. I was even considering going down to a 39T (since I tour with the B) but have since strengthened my cycling legs after getting back into cycle again (thanks to the Brompton), and now find the -12% just right for me. 

A chainring swap is very easy and inexpensive to DIY - you just need the 44T chainring, Allen key, and chain tool (remove 2-3 links).


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## oldwheels (14 Apr 2017)

I changed to a 42t chainring. Did not bother shortening the chain until it was due to be replaced anyway. No problem encountered with the chain a touch too long. This on a 6 speed gives me the ratios I need for hill climbing but not too low in top for my use which is gentle touring and day runs in often hilly areas.


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## e-rider (14 Apr 2017)

I will buy a 44T chainring and swap it out to give me 6 usable gears


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## TheDoctor (14 Apr 2017)

That works - it's (almost) what I did with mine. The only issue is that with the 50T my two round-town gears were 3rd and 4th - so leave it in middle on the hub and swap between the sprockets. On the 44T, my go-to gears are 4th and 5th, so I'm forever doing double changes. It's hardly the end of the world, but it is a bit of a niggle.

* I say 'almost' because I've actually got a 34/44 chainset on there, to give me an M12R with a super-low set of gears for climbing. I have actually got 12 different ratios, but the shifting pattern would be counter-intuitive, to say the least.


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## reppans (15 Apr 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> That works - it's (almost) what I did with mine. The only issue is that with the 50T my two round-town gears were 3rd and 4th - so leave it in middle on the hub and swap between the sprockets. On the 44T, my go-to gears are 4th and 5th, so I'm forever doing double changes. It's hardly the end of the world, but it is a bit of a niggle.
> 
> * I say 'almost' because I've actually got a 34/44 chainset on there, to give me an M12R with a super-low set of gears for climbing. I have actually got 12 different ratios, but the shifting pattern would be counter-intuitive, to say the least.



Did you install a front derailleur, or are you 'shifting' manually (i.e., greasy finger). I once looked into installing a 2nd chainring (manual finger shift) just in case of needing to climb a real mountain, but understood it be a fairly complex affair with bottom bracket component and spacing changes. There doesn't seem to be enough clearance between my 44T and the rear triangle when folded for an easy bolt-on solution.

Agree with the 4th and 5th double shift being a bit of niggle - but the grades around me change significantly enough so that I often wait a bit to single shift the IGH, or two gears at a time.


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## TheDoctor (15 Apr 2017)

It's a greasy-finger / find-a-stick shift.
It would have been nice when I Brommied Provence and Mont Ventoux a few years ago to have had a lower gear or two.
The 34T option gives me 22", 27", 34", 42", 54" and 66". I can spin a 66" gear up to 25 mph, which is probably fast enough for touring.
To be honest, the standard gearing has a 33" bottom gear, and once I can't turn that any more I don't mind walking. I fitted the double because I had it, and I didn't have a set of single chainring bolts to hand! Anyway, was there ever a better reason for doing something than "Because I can"? 
I did consider taking a 10 speed cassette to bits and going triple at the back, but that means filing a notch into the gear lever and I couldn't be arsed.
Not even to post about having an M18R with a very confusing set of ratios!


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## Kell (18 Apr 2017)

I think I must be a grinder rather than a spinner as my go to gears around town on a 50 tooth are 4th for setting off and 5th for going. So I find I'm always doing two-shifter shifts...


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## doginabag (18 Apr 2017)

It's always going to differ between rider and location.
I have the +12% chaining on my 6 speed (is that 54 teeth?) and riding pretty much only on flat roads 5th is my cruising along gear. 2nd is my pulling away gear, and then go straight to 4th and on to 5th if traffic allows.

3rd I find too close to 4th to be much use amd 1st is too low for any hill I encounter. Touched on 6th a few times but generally I don't have the legs for it, yet.


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## e-rider (18 Apr 2017)

doginabag said:


> It's always going to differ between rider and location.
> I have the +12% chaining on my 6 speed (is that 54 teeth?) and riding pretty much only on flat roads 5th is my cruising along gear. 2nd is my pulling away gear, and then go straight to 4th and on to 5th if traffic allows.
> 
> 3rd I find too close to 4th to be much use amd 1st is too low for any hill I encounter. Touched on 6th a few times but generally I don't have the legs for it, yet.


but that's the issue, you never use 6th gear, and on a bike with only 6 gears that seems a waste. I am the same with standard 50T chainring - I never use 6th gear so it might as well be a 5-speed bike. Hopefully when I change to 44T I will make use of all 6 gears


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## Kell (19 Apr 2017)

Well my old Dahon had either 24 or 27 gears (I don't remember offhand) and I only ever used three of those, so that was even more of a waste.


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## e-rider (20 Apr 2017)

I have fitted the 44T chainring and new shorter chain - cost me £35 in total - I plan to ride 25 miles tomorrow so I'll see how the new gear ratios go!


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## e-rider (1 May 2017)

44T ring is better - I can now use all 6 gears - the new highest gear spins out in the high twentys which is fine - if I'm heading towards 30mph then I no longer need to pedal as I'm going downhill!


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## TheDoctor (1 May 2017)

With my old 50T chainring, I span out at about 40 mph. That feels a bit  on a Brommie!


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