# buying a modern tandem



## tandemkeith (20 Mar 2014)

Looking for some advice. I have got back in to tandeming after a gap of about 25 years and am surprised how the technology has changed. I have decided to replace my old Dave Yates with a modern tandem. However, I am finding it difficult to find reviews on reliability e.t.c. I had thought of going carbon but not sure how durable a carbon tandem frame is? So, I have been looking at Santana, comotion, Landscape e.t.c. I am a blind stoker and my pilots are from the local cycling club. I would be mainly using it on club runs and time trials so more race than touring although would be nice to get off after a long ride and still have feeling in all the bits. I suppose most newer bikes would be an improvement but will only be doing this once so it needs to be the right choice.


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## srw (21 Mar 2014)

Ultimately what you get will depend on your budget and on what sizes are available in your required size - mostly they're designed for smaller stokers, so if you're a taller person you may struggle.

Personally I'd suggest getting a machine from one of the specialist manufacturers, because they've ironed out all the issues that the generalists are still struggling with. Thorn make a great and comfortable touring tandem in a range of sizes, but it's not exactly speedy. Our other tandem is a titanium Santana (that would make a great bumper sticker). It's a phenomenal beast that goes like the clappers, and again comes in a range of sizes. Very highly recommended if your budget stretches that far, or - like us - you happen to find one second-hand in the right size.

Santana do make carbon tandems - or even carbon-titanium combos, and since they're an American company you can bet that they will be very durable. An American manufacturer selling in the US simply won't be able to produce something that will fall apart, otherwise it will sued to Kingdom Come.

The alternative would be a bespoke frame, which would enable you to get the stoker's cockpit in a size you need. But if you go down that route, make sure your frame-maker has done the job before. It's easy to make a lousy tandem frame, and difficult to make a good one. You need stiffness and lightness, and working with long tubes makes that more difficult. Both Santana and Thorn use over-sized tubing - Santana have a huge oval bottom tube.


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## smokeysmoo (21 Mar 2014)

to CC TK.

GEOFF SMITH CYCLES in Bolton is an avid tandem rider and also a Lancashire Road Club member FWIW.

I don't know where you are but he'd be worth a call


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## tandemkeith (21 Mar 2014)

srw said:


> Ultimately what you get will depend on your budget and on what sizes are available in your required size - mostly they're designed for smaller stokers, so if you're a taller person you may struggle.
> 
> Personally I'd suggest getting a machine from one of the specialist manufacturers, because they've ironed out all the issues that the generalists are still struggling with. Thorn make a great and comfortable touring tandem in a range of sizes, but it's not exactly speedy. Our other tandem is a titanium Santana (that would make a great bumper sticker). It's a phenomenal beast that goes like the clappers, and again comes in a range of sizes. Very highly recommended if your budget stretches that far, or - like us - you happen to find one second-hand in the right size.
> 
> ...





Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

I was looking at the Santana titanium and, I have to say, it ticks the boxes.

Have you had any problems with yours? How long have you had it and do you know how many miles it has covered?

I am going off the carbon idea as the roads are so bad and I have heard of carbon frames getting dammaged so I think the titanium would be a nice option.


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## srw (21 Mar 2014)

We got ours in about 2012, since when we've done about 3000 miles, including about 6 miles on very rough, stony cycle paths (slowly but in great comfort). The couple we bought it from bought it from new in about 2002, and I think they did several thousand miles. We've got the version with S&S couplings for ease of transport.

The problems we've had:
Derailleur adjustment is fiddlier than a solo bike, and it occasionally ships the chain when changing the front mech. This isn't helped because we've got a very wide range triple (53 - 40 - 28)
We've got the previous hydraulic disc brake on the rear, which occasionally overheats and locks up, and makes dismantling trickier. Spare parts are getting scarce. It looks as if Santana have now abandoned this option for a conventional rear disc.
We've got the flight case for transport, which is very fiddly to stow the bike away in.

That's about it.


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## Ian H (21 Mar 2014)

Why not go back to Dave Yates and ask his advice? The trouble with most of the American tandems is that they have enormously long wheelbases and handle like barges. Of course, as a stoker, you may have a different take on this.


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## tandemkeith (22 Mar 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> to CC TK.
> 
> GEOFF SMITH CYCLES in Bolton is an avid tandem rider and also a Lancashire Road Club member FWIW.
> 
> I don't know where you are but he'd be worth a call


Thanks for this as well.


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## tandemkeith (22 Mar 2014)

srw said:


> We got ours in about 2012, since when we've done about 3000 miles, including about 6 miles on very rough, stony cycle paths (slowly but in great comfort). The couple we bought it from bought it from new in about 2002, and I think they did several thousand miles. We've got the version with S&S couplings for ease of transport.
> 
> The problems we've had:
> Derailleur adjustment is fiddlier than a solo bike, and it occasionally ships the chain when changing the front mech. This isn't helped because we've got a very wide range triple (53 - 40 - 28)
> ...



Interesting reply. I should think you could climb anything with those gears. I think tandems are generally more difficult to set up that single bikes.


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## tandemkeith (22 Mar 2014)

Ian H said:


> Why not go back to Dave Yates and ask his advice? The trouble with most of the American tandems is that they have enormously long wheelbases and handle like barges. Of course, as a stoker, you may have a different take on this.



Hi, thanks for the thought. Not sure if Dave Yates is still going, he was getting on a bit back in 1988 when he built the current frame. 

The thing is, I would like something less heavy as now that the club riders are not riding steel frames these days, it is harder to keep up whereas on the flat we used to drop the single bikes. I knhow I am older now but even so, I think the advantages of the new frame technology and the fact that I only have a six speed block is having an affect. I hope it is that anyway. 

Still worth some googling though. Bob Jackson was another frame builder who was arround then but I really need to move more up to date with the materials as well as the gearing or I think I might be spending loads for not much of a gain.


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## rvw (23 Mar 2014)

Ian H said:


> The trouble with most of the American tandems is that they have enormously long wheelbases and handle like barges.



This might be true of some makes, but definitely not all. I'm srw's stoker and our Santana is, pretty much to the inch, the same length as our Thorn. Of course neither corners as well as a solo bike - it would be unreasonable to expect that - but the lighter Santana feels very lively, handles much better and feels a lot less staid than the Thorn.

@tandemkeith, hope you find something you like!


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## Ian H (23 Mar 2014)

tandemkeith said:


> Hi, thanks for the thought. Not sure if Dave Yates is still going, he was getting on a bit back in 1988 when he built the current frame.



Ooh! I'll tell him. Dave Yates.


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## tandemkeith (24 Mar 2014)

Ian H said:


> Ooh! I'll tell him. Dave Yates.


Oh, glad he is still going and thanks for the link. I was quite a youngster in 1988 and everyone seemed old to me back then.

I will give him a call, though, doubt if he built many tandems so he may like to know that it is still used on a regular basis.


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## Flick of the Elbow (12 Apr 2014)

Landescape definitely recommended, fully made to measure, excellent service from http://www.thetandemshop.com. (Shropshire)


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## grazy1949 (14 Aug 2014)

tandemkeith said:


> Looking for some advice. I have got back in to tandeming after a gap of about 25 years and am surprised how the technology has changed. I have decided to replace my old Dave Yates with a modern tandem. However, I am finding it difficult to find reviews on reliability e.t.c. I had thought of going carbon but not sure how durable a carbon tandem frame is? So, I have been looking at Santana, comotion, Landscape e.t.c. I am a blind stoker and my pilots are from the local cycling club. I would be mainly using it on club runs and time trials so more race than touring although would be nice to get off after a long ride and still have feeling in all the bits. I suppose most newer bikes would be an improvement but will only be doing this once so it needs to be the right choice.



Kinethic Hand Made Bikes, Alicante , Spain. Is owned by Juan Enrique Vidal who was tandem road racing world champ in 1994. I have bought 2 racing bikes from them. The first one was a made to measure composite frame and then recently, I bought a carbon bike from them. They are known world wide for their made to measure tandems (They supplied tandems for the 2012 Paralympics). I have had excellent service from them and have been very satisfied with both the fit and quality of their bikes. They speak English. You can see a short Kinethic video or find out more about their services/products here:: 
View: http://youtu.be/qvwasiPevxA
www.kinethic.com
I hope this helps.


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