# Do cycle lanes have speed limits?



## RoadBikeRecommendation (14 Jun 2012)

Nice tailwind on the seafront this evening meant my speed was just a smidge under 30mph so opted to stay on the road instead of using the first part of the cycle path. The surface isn't great and there were plenty of slower riders and kids about. Couldn't believe even though I was almost doing the speed limit still got shouted at from a passing car telling me to get in the cycle lane (with accompanying hand gestures).

Anyway back on topic. Is there an official speed limit for cycle lanes? Further down the seafront in a clear section of the cycle path I was up in the high 30s (mainly to catch said motorist and pass him. . . .I'm not petty).


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## HLaB (14 Jun 2012)

Some off road cycle paths have advisory speed limits (of say 15mph) and its recommended that in excess of 18mph you use the road but there are no official speed limit for on road cycle lanes.


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## Red Light (14 Jun 2012)

Speed limits do not apply to bicycles anyway, only motor vehicles. There are no speed limits therefore for cycle lanes although its worth being aware that the maximum design speed for a cycle track is quite low.


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## sabian92 (14 Jun 2012)

Red Light said:


> Speed limits do not apply to bicycles anyway, only motor vehicles. There are no speed limits therefore for cycle lanes although its worth being aware that the maximum design speed for a cycle track is quite low.


 
Partially true.

In Royal Parks there are speed limits for bicycles and you are able to be penalised for speeding.

Sorry to be a pedantic so-and-so

But other than that, no. Bikes don't have a speed limit on any road they use so in theory you can do 80mph down your local high street and it's totally legal.


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## Pauluk (14 Jun 2012)

Although there is no speed limit for bicycles (except when local laws may be applied by councils in some areas like parks) the Police may still prosecute you for a related offense such as furious cycling/pedaling, always assuming they can reasonably prove it


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## gambatte (14 Jun 2012)

Pauluk said:


> the Police may still prosecute you for a related offense such as furious cycling/pedaling, always assuming they can reasonably prove it


 
Always wondered about this, as anything over 35mph I seem to have max'd out and given up on the pedalling and I'm gaining speed with the gradient and my position on the bike


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## Recycler (14 Jun 2012)

I've always worked on the basis of working to the limit that applies to cars. Most of the time it's no problem (!) but when I'm in a 20mph zone it only seems fair to work to that.


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## Recycler (14 Jun 2012)

sabian92 said:


> . Bikes don't have a speed limit on any road they use so in theory you can do 80mph down your local high street and it's totally legal.


 
Try that and they'll do you for "Wanton and Furious driving."
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/pbd_policy.html#_27


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## Pauluk (14 Jun 2012)

Think the only time I'm in danger of breaking the road speed limit is either going down a really steep hill or if I got my braces accidentally wrapped round a car door mirror


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## Berties (14 Jun 2012)

I went along a private mod road last night and they had one of the smiley face speed reminders it said 27 it just mad me smile ,it is a 30 zone so I will I'm to get it to look sad, no harm trying!


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## MattHB (14 Jun 2012)

Recycler said:


> I've always worked on the basis of working to the limit that applies to cars. Most of the time it's no problem (!) but when I'm in a 20mph zone it only seems fair to work to that.



Speed limits are designed around reaction and stopping times combined with the likelihood of the need to pull up suddenly.. So a motor vehicle, being much heavier should need a lower speed limit than a pedal bike (assuming ones breaks work ok). Also you're likely to do much less damage for the same reason.

I'd still stick to the 20 myself though as well, partly because I would flow in any traffic better.


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## Pauluk (14 Jun 2012)

MattHB said:


> Speed limits are designed around reaction and stopping times combined with the likelihood of the need to pull up suddenly.. So a motor vehicle, being much heavier should need a lower speed limit than a pedal bike (assuming ones breaks work ok). Also you're likely to do much less damage for the same reason.


I wondered if its just that the people writing the rule book just forgot cycles in the tables or just thought they don't go fast anyway.


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## Recycler (14 Jun 2012)

MattHB said:


> Speed limits are designed around reaction and stopping times combined with the likelihood of the need to pull up suddenly.. So a motor vehicle, being much heavier should need a lower speed limit than a pedal bike (assuming ones breaks work ok). Also you're likely to do much less damage for the same reason..


 
You're right that a bike would do less damage but I very much doubt that stopping distances of cars are greater than bikes. They may be heavier but they have four, considerably larger, servo operated brakes usually with ABS which are designed to bring a car to a stop from speeds in excess of 100mph. The best bike disc brakes may be pretty good but I would be surprised if the typical brakes on a road bike give the stopping power of a car.


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## Matthew_T (14 Jun 2012)

The speed limit for shared use paths is 12mph (from someone on one of my videos) but I dont know about specific cycle lanes or paths. Noone actually does the speeds set and the police will not pull you over about it unless you are cycling dangerously and weaving through people at high speeds.


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## MrJamie (14 Jun 2012)

Its fun to set a Strava segment over 5mph/10mph cycle paths so you can see how crazily fast some people go over them 


Recycler said:


> You're right that a bike would do less damage but I very much doubt that stopping distances of cars are greater than bikes. They may be heavier but they have four, considerably larger, servo operated brakes usually with ABS which are designed to bring a car to a stop from speeds in excess of 100mph. The best bike disc brakes may be pretty good but I would be surprised if the typical brakes on a road bike give the stopping power of a car.


 I had a quick google and bumped into an old CC thread! http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/braking-distance-car-vs-bike.59761/ It does look possible that a bike could outbrake a car, but it would definitely be a lot easier to get wrong and ABS allows cars to swerve quite heavily under braking which we cant really do at all on a bike.


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## HLaB (14 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> The speed limit for shared use paths is 12mph (from someone on one of my videos) but I dont know about specific cycle lanes or paths. Noone actually does the speeds set and the police will not pull you over about it unless you are cycling dangerously and weaving through people at high speeds.


They are winding you up, there is no specific limit unless clearly stated on signs but it is recommended that if you are travelling greater than 18mph to travel on road and furthermore, speed will be more likely dictated by the situation and self enforcing, for example limiting your self to circa 4-5mph may be appropriate if its a busier (more trekked) path.


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## Pauluk (14 Jun 2012)

I think the design speed of a shared path is 10 mph, but I don't think this is the same as a speed limit. I still don't think there is a specific speed limit unless indicated by a sign and as yet I've never seen one.


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## Red Light (15 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> The speed limit for shared use paths is 12mph (from someone on one of my videos) but I dont know about specific cycle lanes or paths. Noone actually does the speeds set and the police will not pull you over about it unless you are cycling dangerously and weaving through people at high speeds.



You are confusing design speeds with speed limits.


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## fossyant (15 Jun 2012)

Personally, stick to the road if you want to make any progress quickly. Paths/shared use are just that, cycle slowly.


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## gambatte (15 Jun 2012)

I don't have a speedo....


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## swansonj (15 Jun 2012)

sabian92 said:


> Partially true.
> 
> In Royal Parks there are speed limits for bicycles and you are able to be penalised for speeding.
> 
> Sorry to be a pedantic so-and-so


Are you sure that is still the case? I was under the impression that the Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Amendment Regulations 2010 had added a definition of "vehicle" as "mechanically propelled", thereby bringing Royal Parks in line with general speeding law where cyclists are not included in the vehicles the speed limits apply to.

Someone pointed that out on the CTC Forum at the time, but I've not seen any discussion of what's happened in practice since.


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## sabian92 (15 Jun 2012)

Recycler said:


> Try that and they'll do you for "Wanton and Furious driving."
> http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/pbd_policy.html#_27



You learn something new every day then - I had no idea. What's the criteria for being caught?




swansonj said:


> Are you sure that is still the case? I was under the impression that the Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Amendment Regulations 2010 had added a definition of "vehicle" as "mechanically propelled", thereby bringing Royal Parks in line with general speeding law where cyclists are not included in the vehicles the speed limits apply to.
> 
> Someone pointed that out on the CTC Forum at the time, but I've not seen any discussion of what's happened in practice since.



I didn't realise it had changed, apologies. I don't live near a royal park in my defence


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## Dan B (15 Jun 2012)

sabian92 said:


> You learn something new every day then - I had no idea. What's the criteria for being caught?


You have to be going slow enough to catch :-)


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## Boris Bajic (15 Jun 2012)

User said:


> You are correct. The 2010 Regulations removed the speed limits for cycle in Royal Parks.


 
The speed limit was not enforced when I broke it countless times in clear attempts to elicit a response from the Parks Police.

My brother and I used to _'pedal furiously'_ on an old 10-speed Gitane touring tandem through Richmond Park in the late 70s and early 80s.

It had a mechanical (analogue) speedometer which we'd try to push up towards 40. In those days the speed limit was 25mph in the park, so we were able to pass unsuspecting motorists on descents.

It was stupid, juvenile and potentially suicidal, but we was never nicked by Ol' Bill.


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## Banjo (15 Jun 2012)

Not sure about the law but commonsense tells me if a path is shared with pedestrians dogs etc then you should be going slow probably 10 mph or less.if the same path were empty and visibility is good go for it .Unlikely to be a real issue unless you injure someone.


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## Matthew_T (15 Jun 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HdSlyRel6E&feature=g-upl

At the start of the video, there is a cycle lane on the pavement. I would very rarely use this as it slows me down a considerable amount. However, the shared use path at the end would be used by me sometimes. In this case, I felt that it would have slowed me down a bit and I was happy with cycling on the road for the whole length of the journey as the traffic wasnt too heavy.


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## Dan B (15 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> The speed limit was not enforced when I broke it countless times in clear attempts to elicit a response from the Parks Police.


I know people who have been pulled over and had a Stern Telling Off from the fuzz for exceeding the Richmond Park speed limit _on roller skates_. As the story was related to me, they managed to avoid getting an actual ticket by explaining that they were in training for the Euro Championships

I should add that this was on the road not on any kind of shared-use path


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## Boris Bajic (15 Jun 2012)

Dan B said:


> I know people who have been pulled over and had a Stern Telling Off from the fuzz for exceeding the Richmond Park speed limit _on roller skates_. As the story was related to me, they managed to avoid getting an actual ticket by explaining that they were in training for the Euro Championships
> 
> I should add that this was on the road not on any kind of shared-use path


 
I was pulled over in Bushey Park for driving a commercial vehicle (a van).

As I pulled up the policeman roared with laughter and said "You lucky, lucky bastard!".

My van had side windows and was therefore not covered by whatever law forbade the use of commercials.

I was working. We both knew it. My mudflaps were almost on the tarmac because of the weight of my load. I think he was just having a good morning. He was still chuckling when I pulled away.


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## Davidc (15 Jun 2012)

Although Cycle Craft says 18mph max for a shared path I think that's far too fast when mixing with pedestrians, dogs, small children on bikes etc.

If I'm on them I keep myself to 10 mph or less, unless I'm the only user in sight. That's partly for my own safety, as those paths are full of people not looking or on the phone, cyclists who don't know that they should pass on the left, 1km long dog leads, and they have surfaces similar to the Bermuda Triangle in a hurricane.

I have only rarely had the "You should be on the path" whinge from motorists. I usually just ignore them or give them a pained, fed up type look. I'm not responsible for their pig-ignorance.


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## BrumJim (15 Jun 2012)

[QUOTE 1891353, member: 45"]I rode at over 20 on a shared path yesterday. It was capable of more if I had been bothered.[/quote]

That's a minimum speed on the bit of shared path I use. Although not during school holidays and sunny days, when pedestrians get in the way.


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## BrumJim (15 Jun 2012)

I've only got as far as the squirrel-hop.


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## Buddfox (15 Jun 2012)

Regarding the various comments about Royal Parks and speed limits, the 20mph limit does apply (to cyclists as well) in Richmond Park (but none of the other Royal Parks) and is enforced rigorously by the Police. I believe there is a specific by-law for Richmond related to the presence of deer in the Park.


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## Theseus (15 Jun 2012)

Buddfox said:


> I believe there is a specific by-law for Richmond related to the presence of deer in the Park.


 
How fast are they allowed to go?


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## Tim Hall (15 Jun 2012)

Buddfox said:


> Regarding the various comments about Royal Parks and speed limits, the 20mph limit does apply (to cyclists as well) in Richmond Park (but none of the other Royal Parks) and is enforced rigorously by the Police. I believe there is a specific by-law for Richmond related to the presence of deer in the Park.


Can't see that in the regulations. As User says, the 2010 amendment defines a vehicle as a "mechanically propelled vehicle"


> 1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces
> (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 and shall come into force for the purposes of regulations 1 to
> 4 on 6th April 2010 and for all other purposes on 1st October 2010.
> (2) In these Regulations–
> ...


 
The speed limits in Royal Parks, taken again from the 2010 amendment, are:


> Speeds at which a vehicle may be driven or ridden on a Park road
> 1. On a Park road in The Green Park, Hyde Park (other than the Serpentine Road), St
> James’s Park or The Regent’s Park, at a speed not exceeding 30 mph.
> 2. On a Park road in Bushy Park, Greenwich Park or Richmond Park, at a speed not
> ...


 
A pedant might argue that a vehicle propelled by applying force to cranks is mechanically propelled, although the "mechanically propelled" definition is used in the Road Traffic Act 1988 to state what a motor vehicle is.


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## Recycler (15 Jun 2012)

sabian92 said:


> You learn something new every day then - I had no idea. What's the criteria for being caught?


 
I don't lnow but, according to the CPS site one of the factors is that somebody has been injured. I susopect that, if a cyclist rides into somebody and injures them then this is what they could charge you with.

I imagine that they would also use this for a really serious offence like riding into a Police car when it is out on a doughnut run.


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## ufkacbln (15 Jun 2012)

The CycleCraft figure of 18 mph comes from a proposed "Code of Conduct for cyclists" published for consultation by the DfT in 2004 (Local Transport Notes). This stated that:



> "As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road."


 
Otherwise there are other "Codes"

Sustrans design was originally that the NCN should be usable by a reasonably competent 11 year old and that 12 mph was a suggested speed.

In Bournemouth the Police have speed cameras on the esplanade and have actively enforced a speed limit of 10 mph which is presumably from a Traffic Regulation Order.


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