# Traditional balsa wood free flight aeroplanes.



## chriswoody (26 Oct 2021)

When I was younger I had a bit of a thing for Airfix kits and it's safe to say I wasn't much kop at it. I also had a go at building a free flight plane from balsa wood and that didn't go terribly well either! Roll forward a few decades and as the Autumn nights start to draw in, I had a bit of an urge to have another go at building a balsa wood plane, after all, I built a bike frame out of Bamboo, how hard can a plane be! (I may well live to regret that thought.) I also thought it might be a great thing to do with the kids on rainy afternoon, but let's see how they feel about that. 

Having decided to try my hand at this, I cast around on the internet and came across the Vintage Model Company who manufacture a nice range of models out of Laser Cut Balsa Sheets. The planes are a traditional stick and tissue design, so a balsa wood skeleton covered in tissue paper to give it a skin. They are designed to fly on their own and propulsion is provided by a rubber motor which you wind up before launching. I ended up purchasing two planes in the end, as well as a couple of other random bits including some Eze Dope, in which to cover the tissue paper.






The Pilot is meant as a beginners kit, and as such is much more basic with fewer parts and simplified plans. The kit is really nicely presented and the parts are Laser etched into the Balsa and require minimal cutting free from the sheets, leaving precise and clean parts ready for construction. Hopefully me and the kids should be able to construct a flying model from it.

The pilot is not based on a real life plane and is just designed as a basic flying model, so I also decided to purchase a Tiger Moth, a plane that I find really classic in it's looks and should provide quite a challenge to construct. I'll probably tackle this one on my own.






The kit itself is much more detailed, with an extra sheet of parts and some very comprehensive looking plans. The kits come with wood glue, but I need to gather a few other supplies first, like pins, wax paper and other glues, before I can make a start.

Whilst all of the planes in this range are designed to be free flight models, they can also be converted to run Micro RC motors and electronics, which all sounds intriguing. If these actually go together well, I may be tempted into buying a third kit in the future and having a go at that.Any one who had the misfortune to follow my Bamboo bike build will know I like to take my time over these projects, so I may drag this out a bit! 

Whilst I will drop by from time to time to pop in work in progress pics, I started this thread with the thought that if any one else does this kind of thing then throw in some pictures, or chime in with any tips or advise, because I'm probably going to need it!


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## midlife (26 Oct 2021)

I used to fly things like Keil Kraft Caprice way back when and bought myself a small glider (West Wings Merlin) to build but only got it half finished. 

This is a nice reminder to get it out of the shed.


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## KnittyNorah (26 Oct 2021)

chriswoody said:


> When I was younger I had a bit of a thing for Airfix kits and it's safe to say I wasn't much kop at it. I also had a go at building a free flight plane from balsa wood and that didn't go terribly well either! Roll forward a few decades and as the Autumn nights start to draw in, I had a bit of an urge to have another go at building a balsa wood plane, after all, I built a bike frame out of Bamboo, how hard can a plane be! (I may well live to regret that thought.) I also thought it might be a great thing to do with the kids on rainy afternoon, but let's see how they feel about that.
> 
> Having decided to try my hand at this, I cast around on the internet and came across the Vintage Model Company who manufacture a nice range of models out of Laser Cut Balsa Sheets. The planes are a traditional stick and tissue design, so a balsa wood skeleton covered in tissue paper to give it a skin. They are designed to fly on their own and propulsion is provided by a rubber motor which you wind up before launching. I ended up purchasing two planes in the end, as well as a couple of other random bits including some Eze Dope, in which to cover the tissue paper.
> 
> ...


Oh that looks great fun!
I'd be scared to fly them outdoors, though - I'd want to rent a spacious barn or a church hall or something like that!
I treated myself to a laser-cut birch laminate self-assembly tape loom during ... which lockdown? one of them, anyway! - and had great fun making it. I've used it a few times since and it works fine 'as is', but I made it a better quality shuttle/sword as laminate simply can't be sanded to the almost-knife-like fine edge needed to beat the weft.


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## Reynard (26 Oct 2021)

Good luck, gotta love a good engineering drawing! 

Reminds, I really must get back to my Higman Superstox model, as it's looking at me rather accusingly from the dining room sideboard. I just need to find a good anaerobic contact adhesive that I'm not allergic to...

P.S. I loved your bamboo bike build @chriswoody


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## Drago (26 Oct 2021)

Watching with great interest.


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## Arrowfoot (26 Oct 2021)

Had schoolmates who were good at these including building radio kits. They had the patience and commitment to deliver quality work. 

Good luck Chris.


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## CanucksTraveller (27 Oct 2021)

I've been wanting to do one of these for a while, I keep eyeing up the Keihl ones. So I'm another who is watching with interest!


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## Punkawallah (27 Oct 2021)

This stirs my interest. Back when I was in short trousers, a balsa pack from the local DIY shop provided hours of entertainment producing gliders of varying configurations and success. Including one in the form of a Me 163! Apparently, you can stil get the balsa pack today . . .


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## fossyant (27 Oct 2021)

My dad used to build a few when he was younger.


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

I did a few of theses as a kid, all Keil Kraft. You had most flying success with the high wing designs of course like the Piper Cub but most kids wanted the Hurricane or Spitfire which had little stability in the air.
I came back to model planes in middle age and after some forays into RC I decided that what I liked best was gliders, no messy oily motor. I then graduated to powered prototypes but with no power, flown as a glider from a slope. You can then indulge your passion for warbird, jets, airliners or whatever. It’s called a power slope soarer or PSS. You can see the diversity of models from this pic on the Facebook group.
My favourite build was a Tucano from a plan, so you had to make all the parts, using ply and balsa. The wing was foam veneered in Obecchi. All covered with Solarfilm iron on.


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## MichaelW2 (27 Oct 2021)

One of those useful skills to have should you ever crash in the desert or be taken as a POW.


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## Mark Grant (27 Oct 2021)

I started on Keil Kraft kits in the '70s and still build stick & tissue models now.
I built this lot during the first lockdown.
A good site for free plans is outerzone.co.uk


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## BoldonLad (27 Oct 2021)

Your childhood(?) experiences mirror mine: enthusiasm 10/10 ; skills 5/10 

Recently tried to get grandson interested in Airfix kit building, not very successfully.

You have piqued my interest, might have a go in the dark winter months.

Very interested to hear how you get on


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## Arrowfoot (27 Oct 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> Your childhood(?) experiences mirror mine: enthusiasm 10/10 ; skills 5/10
> 
> Recently tried to get grandson interested in Airfix kit building, not very successfully.
> 
> ...


I did not want say it earlier, my skill level is criminal. After a few tries, I decided to be an avid admirer instead. Dark winter months sounds great. Maybe with a glass of whiskey to steady the nerves.


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## byegad (27 Oct 2021)

Mark Grant said:


> I started on Keil Kraft kits in the '70s and still build stick & tissue models now.
> I built this lot during the first lockdown.
> A good site for free plans is outerzone.co.uk
> 
> ...


The 'naked' one looks like a Gypsy. We had one back in the 60s, which sadly destroyed itself on the only patch of tarmac on the moors. With many hundred of turns on the elastic the only recognisable pieces left were the tail and right wing.


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## Mark Grant (27 Oct 2021)

byegad said:


> The 'naked' one looks like a Gypsy. We had one back in the 60s, which sadly destroyed itself on the only patch of tarmac on the moors. With many hundred of turns on the elastic the only recognisable pieces left were the tail and right wing.


The 'naked' one is a KK Ace, intended to be rubber powered R/C.
The last one is 24" rubber converted to electric R/C


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## Jody (27 Oct 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> Your childhood(?) experiences mirror mine: enthusiasm 10/10 ; skills 5/10



This for me whenever I tried making basic models. Coupled with winding the prop up too far and it snapping in two


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

You’re only a true stick and tissue enthusiast when you carve your own props. Did you carve those in your pic @Mark Grant ?
Can you still get the ‘pear drops’ dope? I suspect not, shame, wouldn’t be quite the same without that evocative smell.


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## Mark Grant (27 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> You’re only a true stick and tissue enthusiast when you carve your own props. Did you carve those in your pic @Mark Grant ?
> Can you still get the ‘pear drops’ dope? I suspect not, shame, wouldn’t be quite the same without that evocative smell.


Yes the prop on the Ace is hand carved, I've also other vintage models that I have carved props for, fixed and single folders. It is quite satisfying!


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

The Shuttleworth ‘Festival of Flight’ is worth a visit at Old Warden aerodrome in Bedfordshire which I believe is still held every year if you’re into these things. Also a opportunity to view the historic Shuttleworth collection.
Heres a video of the 2015 event:

View: https://youtu.be/fJIdBwvqsSA


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## a.twiddler (27 Oct 2021)

Like many kids in the 60s I was into Airfix kits and it was a time of excitement and learning new skills. The heady aroma of polystyrene glue and enamel paints in tiny tins, the varied streamlined shapes of the aircraft, even being motivated to find out more about the prototypes in the local library were unexpected pleasures that a detached observer wouldn't deduce from looking at my collection of what were probably badly assembled and painted models. Although I got better at it as I got older and some that I built and painted actually looked pretty good, I couldn't claim to be a great modeller.

Are such kits so popular today in this age of electronic entertainment? I suspect it's more an adult thing nowadays. Imagine letting your kids loose with a selection of such potentially poisonous substances today.

I did enjoy ready to fly stuff, simple balsa gliders and rubber band fliers. I bought a complicated balsa biplane kit which in the end my dad had to finish. There was the scenario of the house reeking of balsa cement, parts pinned to a board with colourful headed pins while the assemblies set. Then the house reeking of dope which magically tightened up the tissue paper covering of the wings. With both my parents being smokers I'm surprised that they didn't blow the house up. Despite all this effort, I never got it to successfully fly. 

My younger brother was never into the kits as much as I was but he did get our dad to build an impressively wide wingspanned glider with the same meticulous procedure as above. The big day came when we all went to the nearby sports pitch and it had its first proper flight. It had had some hand launches previously to sort out the trim but this was the first trial using a line. The idea was that the glider had a rearward facing hook, the line had a ring on the end, you ran letting the line out as the glider climbed then at the maximum height you jerked the line back, or it came free on its own, and soared. The rudder was trimmed so that it would fly in a circle so it didn't just disappear over the horizon.
Unfortunately, none of these things happened. The ring didn't release and we watched in horror as, despite our dad frantically jerking the line, it flew at high speed into the ground, hitting with an impressive crack and sending bits of balsa everywhere. Our dad's face was a picture, and we couldn't say anything. We gathered up the bits and went home. That was the end of the balsa kit era in our house. My dad had a lot of patience but at least for the time being, he'd had enough.

I've still maintained my interest in aircraft over the years and built the odd kit but no fliers.


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## chriswoody (27 Oct 2021)

Thanks everybody I'll have to see how I get on!

@Reynard those plans are indeed a thing of beauty I must have spent a fair while reading the Tiger Moth ones. Because you build the model directly onto them you can also see how big they'll be when finished. The laser cut parts are also really impressive, really fine and precise cuts that should make things easier.

@Mark Grant that's a lovely collection of planes, I would love mine to come out half as good, I fear though it may indeed be a case of enthusiasm being much greater than skill!

@Cycleops you had to go and mention carved props. I was actually idly thinking about one for the Moth, I think it would look great. It's one of those things though that can be attempted later after I've discovered wether @BoldonLad prediction is true about enthusiasm versus actual skill!


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## T4tomo (27 Oct 2021)

Not my area of expertise at all, nearest I got was airfix spitfire kits and I once made a balsa wood aircraft carrier at school!

My neighbour builds model aircraft to a good old size, a bit bigger than those shown so far up thread, and they are power by proper engines - they make a right old noise when he powers them up to test in the garden. He builds them to order for clients / fellow enthusiasts.


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## steveindenmark (27 Oct 2021)

Our local RC aircraft club is a 5 minute cycle ride from my house. Its a lovely place with a small club house.

This post could get me interested.

Please let us know how you get on with your model making.


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## gbb (27 Oct 2021)

This is something im considering for retirement (not so many years away).
I used to do them as a kid, i seem go remember the parts were printed onto balsa sheet and you cut them out, the plans were as big as dinner tables.
I spent a couple weeks building one i brought with some birthday money, a high wing Cessna or similar, maybe 2 or 3ft wingspan...forgot to put some trim on the rudder, launched it....and watched it fly merrily off, straight as a die, into the distance.  .
Also had a 6ft glider, that thing would stay up for ages if you set the timer long enough. I still remember the terrific pull on the lline as you launched them. The joys of living on mothballed airfields.


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> Our local RC aircraft club is a 5 minute cycle ride from my house. Its a lovely place with a small club house.
> 
> This post could get me interested.
> 
> Please let us know how you get on with your model making.


Give it a go Steve. It's great fun and if you don't want to build there are plenty of almost-ready-to -fly options. Multiplex should be readily available in Denmark being a German brand. 
https://www.multiplex-rc.de/produkte/flugmodelle/
I've had some of their kits and can recommend them. Their radio sets are excellent too.


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## pawl (27 Oct 2021)

fossyant said:


> My dad used to build a few when he was younger.




The ones I remember had a propeller attached to what I can’t remember You wound it and launched.
I also remember are the planes powered by a small engine , can’t remember what the fuel was Ido remember they were controlled by attached lines.Just used to go round in circles.
The name jet x seems to spring to mind as power source for models.No doubt some one will rember them🛩🛩


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## pawl (27 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> You’re only a true stick and tissue enthusiast when you carve your own props. Did you carve those in your pic @Mark Grant ?
> Can you still get the ‘pear drops’ dope? I suspect not, shame, wouldn’t be quite the same without that evocative smell.




Did we cover wings and fuselage with tissue paper Then misted with water to tighten it


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

The planes attached to wires that went round in circles were control line. They were powered by a glow or diesel engine. The glow had a plug that used a battery to make it heat up. The diesel relied on compression.

Yes, the water was used to shrink the tissue initially and then was further tightened and strengthened with dope which smalt of pear drops.
Usually power was provided by an elastic band.


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## midlife (27 Oct 2021)

Jetex were small jets powered by solid fuel pellets. I built an F86 Sabre to use one but was pretty puny lol.


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## Cycleops (27 Oct 2021)

Wasn't there a more powerful version which used two pellets?


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## Landsurfer (27 Oct 2021)

Well ... I build and fly control line team race aircraft out of balsa ... and Carbon fibre ....
Goodyear, Mini Goodyear and Vintage A and B ....
Engines are all new and Vintage NOS PAW diesels from Tony in Macclesfield ....
And free flight ... Little Little Vagabond and Tomboy airframes with DC and PAW .8cc engines and rudder R/C.
They fly about 20mph ..while my grandsons FPV Freestyle drones punt around at 140 - 160 Kph !!!


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## midlife (27 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Wasn't there a more powerful version which used two pellets?



Mine had 2 pellets, lighting was a real faff and involved winding some wire covered in gunpowder type stuff into a spiral, placing it against the pellet and trailing the wire out of the tiny exhaust hole. And then doing it again when it didn't light lol

Bought some rockets a couple of year ago which were ignited by a battery


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## Cycleops (28 Oct 2021)

Landsurfer said:


> Well ... I build and fly control line team race aircraft out of balsa ... and Carbon fibre ....
> Goodyear, Mini Goodyear and Vintage A and B ....
> Engines are all new and Vintage NOS PAW diesels from Tony in Macclesfield ....


Had no idea Progress Aero Works were still producing Diesel engines.


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## Cycleops (28 Oct 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> One of those useful skills to have should you ever crash in the desert or be taken as a POW.


I always remember that scene from the original ‘ Flight of the Phoenix’ in which the German guy who said he was an aeronautical engineer had finished all the mods for the plane to get them out of the desert and someone asked him which company he worked for and he replied it was one producing model planes. The horrified reaction was along the lines of: ’You mean to say you only worked on toy aircraft’.


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## T4tomo (28 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> The planes attached to wires that went round in circles were control line. They were powered by a glow or diesel engine. The glow had a plug that used a battery to make it heat up. The diesel relied on compression.


My grown-up (but child at heart) neighbour had one of those when I was a kid. I seem remember a lot more prep and faffing time than flying time


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## chriswoody (28 Oct 2021)

So time to report on some progress on my modest attempts. I'd got hold of some dress making pins and a few other sundries and my son was champing at the bit to get started!

So we decided to have a go at some small fuselage formers to get our hand in and get a feel for working with the balsa. With the pilot, the fuselage is built free of the plans, but still needs to be pinned to a cork board for accuracy. The pieces are all pre cut with a laser and all thats left holding them to the main balsa sheet is a small nub of balsa. A quick cut with a scalpel blade soon has them free and a quick brush with sandpaper removes the balsa lugs.






Pinning the pieces to the board helps line them up and keep the hole centred.






For this piece, I used a steel right angle to line up the strengthener pieces onto the former. The V shaped one will locate the wings, so I needed to scrape out any excess glue from inside the v in case of it interfering with the fit of the wings later. We're actually scraping off any excess glue that spurts out in order to keep the weight down, or at least thats what the instructions are telling me!





With two formers made, my son wanted to build a wheel, which are constructed from a laminate of three round discs and then sanded to shape. In order to keep the axle hole aligned we used a 3mm drill bit to build the wheel over.






After the glue's dried we just need to sand it into a wheel shape, but that's for later.






So that's it for now, baby steps and all that, but it's progress and fun progress at that.


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## Mark Grant (28 Oct 2021)

chriswoody said:


> @Mark Grant that's a lovely collection of planes, I would love mine to come out half as good, I fear though it may indeed be a case of enthusiasm being much greater than skill!



It is but a small part of my fleet!


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## chriswoody (30 Oct 2021)

So I've been busy messing around with the Moth these last evenings. The kit starts with the fuel tank that sits between the upper wings. It's easy start, but you still need to be careful that everything lines up nice and precisely. Cutting out the parts from the Balsa sheet, you can see how precise the parts are due to the laser cutting process.






Assembled together on the plan.






After the fuel tank comes the wings and you start with the left wing which is assembled from a multitude of parts.







Both sets of wings on the Moth have dihedral to them, so this is set using a small angled piece, against which you align the inner rib. There are four alignment tools in all, the bottom wings having a different angle to the top, so the tools are marked up before removing them from the Balsa sheet.






The fiddliest part of all, was cutting, shaping and gluing in of the strengthening pieces either side of the slots for the interplane struts. They are minuscule and you need to make sure to get no glue into the hole in the ribs, or else the interplane struts won't fit later on.

After I completed the left upper wing, I moved onto the right upper wing 






This is where we are at now, with two almost complete upper wings and a fuel tank. They'll be all joined together much later in the build after the wings have been covered and doped. The only job left to do is sand the leading and trailing edges to the correct profile.






So a very enjoyable few evenings work, I'm liking this so far, the kit is very well made and goes together well. You need to be very slow, precise and patient in your work, but the results are looking quite good so far.


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## midlife (30 Oct 2021)

I guess you are using PVA glue?


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## chriswoody (30 Oct 2021)

It is PVA, a small bottle with an easy pour spout provided in the kit. I've also bought some super glue for some parts and some pritt stick for when I come to apply the tissue.


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## Reynard (30 Oct 2021)

chriswoody said:


> It is PVA, a small bottle with an easy pour spout provided in the kit. I've also bought some super glue for some parts and some pritt stick for when I come to apply the tissue.



Just be careful with the superglue - you really do need to use it in a well-ventilated area, or outside if you can. Talking from experience here, as I've been using it for my Superstox model and discovered that I was horribly allergic to it (chestiness to the point I thought I'd caught Covid, plus skin lesions...)

It's one of the reasons that model is on hiatus, as I need to find a fast-bonding alternative. 2-part epoxy is not terribly ideal when dealing with small, fiddly parts.


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## midlife (30 Oct 2021)

I've got this typhoon in the garage, you have given me the impetus to find it


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## Cycleops (31 Oct 2021)

midlife said:


> I've got this typhoon in the garage, you have given me the impetus to find it


Sorry to rain on your parade but those Guillows kits were notoriously poor. There’s no laser cut sheets, not surprising considering the age of the kit, just printed on balsa and the balsa is poor quality too if I remember correctly. To give it any chance of flying well they might have given the wings a lot of dihedral as the low wing has little stability so will look rather odd.
Those Americans should leave these leave these things to good old British firms like KeilKraft


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## chriswoody (31 Oct 2021)

Reynard said:


> Just be careful with the superglue - you really do need to use it in a well-ventilated area, or outside if you can. Talking from experience here, as I've been using it for my Superstox model and discovered that I was horribly allergic to it (chestiness to the point I thought I'd caught Covid, plus skin lesions...)
> 
> It's one of the reasons that model is on hiatus, as I need to find a fast-bonding alternative. 2-part epoxy is not terribly ideal when dealing with small, fiddly parts.



Blimey that sounds a serious reaction. I was being a bit cautious because my wife can be a sensitive to things like this as well. I've actually set up a small super glue station outside and was experimenting with glueing the Pilot's wire landing gear onto the balsa former.







I was working on my chopping block in the back garden. I put some super glue into an Acorn shell and used the pin to spread it over the parts, seemed to work quite well and thankfully no reactions. Luckily I don't need to use it too much.


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## Cycleops (31 Oct 2021)

chriswoody said:


> Blimey that sounds a serious reaction. I was being a bit cautious because my wife can be a sensitive to things like this as well. I've actually set up a small super glue station outside and was experimenting with glueing the Pilot's wire landing gear onto the balsa former.
> 
> I was working on my chopping block in the back garden. I put some super glue into an Acorn shell and used the pin to spread it over the parts, seemed to work quite well and thankfully no reactions. Luckily I don't need to use it too much.


The squirrels must think you’re nuts.


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## Reynard (31 Oct 2021)

chriswoody said:


> Blimey that sounds a serious reaction. I was being a bit cautious because my wife can be a sensitive to things like this as well. I've actually set up a small super glue station outside and was experimenting with glueing the Pilot's wire landing gear onto the balsa former.
> 
> View attachment 615750
> 
> ...



It was pretty nasty.

Although I will say that the model is built from laminated card, so I was using superglue in quite large quantities. Trouble is, most of the glues in that category are pretty nasty stuff anyway...


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## Cycleops (31 Oct 2021)

Reynard said:


> It was pretty nasty.
> 
> Although I will say that the model is built from laminated card, so I was using superglue in quite large quantities. Trouble is, most of the glues in that category are pretty nasty stuff anyway...


There are now low odour cyano glues which won't cause your eyes to water or skin to grow boils:
https://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/tgp-brand-c-1_78/cyano-low-odour-20g-p-11.html


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## byegad (31 Oct 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> Like many kids in the 60s I was into Airfix kits and it was a time of excitement and learning new skills. The heady aroma of polystyrene glue and enamel paints in tiny tins, the varied streamlined shapes of the aircraft, even being motivated to find out more about the prototypes in the local library were unexpected pleasures that a detached observer wouldn't deduce from looking at my collection of what were probably badly assembled and painted models. Although I got better at it as I got older and some that I built and painted actually looked pretty good, I couldn't claim to be a great modeller.
> 
> Are such kits so popular today in this age of electronic entertainment? I suspect it's more an adult thing nowadays. Imagine letting your kids loose with a selection of such potentially poisonous substances today.
> 
> ...


I sympathise. We built a 6ft wingspan glider. A burning fuse in the tail would, after 30-60 seconds burn through a rubber band which, as it snapped, released the rudder, so allowing it to circle slowly, we hoped, to earth. The same rearward facing hook(s), there were three which were used depending on wind strength, were used to tow launch.

It was ballasted in the nose with over 1lb of lead! That was the problem. While it flew well, we never dared fly it near anyone else. A pound of lead with several ounces of balsa and such coming in to land with some speed was likely to cause some damage to unsuspecting heads.

One day the wind was right on the edge of what was 'wise'. Inadvertently towed off using the 'low wind' hook, she went straight up, looped and came down at some speed, inverted with the wind, now a gale, behind it. The 1lb of lead is some several feet deep in the boggy surface of Westerdale Moor. It was certainly more that three feet down, which was the depth we could reach with a stick.


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## Reynard (31 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> There are now low odour cyano glues which won't cause your eyes to water or skin to grow boils:
> https://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/tgp-brand-c-1_78/cyano-low-odour-20g-p-11.html



Ah, thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into that


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## newts (31 Oct 2021)

You can get superglue with a rapid activator. Try not to stick your fingers! 
https://www.toolstation.com/mitre-a...cCc1od4Gmm2smsX1WSsaAgk1EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## youngoldbloke (31 Oct 2021)

I've my son's part assembled Keil Kraft Fairey Gannet somewhere in the garage, along with 3 finished aircraft. Rubber powered. I remember them flying quite well. I made numerous KK kits when young, you could buy the rubber by the yard in the local model shop, along with balsa, cement, dope etc. I graduated to designing my own freelance aircraft, drawn out on paper and then transferred to the balsa using tracing paper. I remember the last one I designed and built had a V shaped tail, Jetex powered. I have fond memories of building a Jetex powered Hawker Hunter and a DeHaviland Vampire*. Both Keil Kraft. I eventually managed to melt my Jetex engines when I tried producing my own weedkiller based propellant, and then I got into cycling ....


*edit - could have been a Venom, it was over 60 years ago


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## Mark Grant (31 Oct 2021)

Reynard said:


> It was pretty nasty.
> 
> Although I will say that the model is built from laminated card, so I was using superglue in quite large quantities. Trouble is, most of the glues in that category are pretty nasty stuff anyway...


For card models try Deluxe Materials 'Rocket Card Glue'. It's good.


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## Reynard (31 Oct 2021)

Mark Grant said:


> For card models try Deluxe Materials 'Rocket Card Glue'. It's good.



Thanks, that's looking like a decent alternative. 

I started the model in lockdown (January), and being a total newbie, I just used what was easy to get my hands on.


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## Cycleops (31 Oct 2021)

Deluxe Materials do a great range of products and cover just about anything you'd need for model making.


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## Mark Grant (31 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Deluxe Materials do a great range of products and cover just about anything you'd need for model making.


I've met the owner / maker of the glues a couple of times at model shows. A nice bloke.


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## chriswoody (6 Nov 2021)

So a little bit more work off and on with my son on the Pilot. The undercarriage wire in this kit is pre bent, it just needs gluing to a former, which I did with superglue and sandwiching between some horizontal strengtheners. Once it's dry, then the formers are glued to one fuselage half and then the other half is glued on. The nose former was a right pig to get right, the balsa is pinched in under tension to meet the nose and I had nothing to clamp it together so I had to hold it with my fingers, but it kept springing apart. A right carry on, when it was finally dry, a bit of sandpaper lightly applied removed any incriminating gluey finger marks! A few horizontal braces go in as well to add strength to the whole structure.







The rear half of the fuselage is again formed with some smaller bulkheads and strengtheners and an elastic band was used to pinch the end of the fuselage together whilst the glue set. This end didn't put up too much of a fight, it was just a little tricky to make sure it was straight and in line.











The stack of square pieces on the drill bit, are the nose block pieces. Once dry, the smaller squares slot snugly into the square hole in the front of the fuselage and the larger squares will be sanded smooth to form the contours of the nose. We've also made the laminates that will form the wheels, again they just need sanding before fitting. It's quite a simple and basic kit, but really enjoyable nonetheless.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Nov 2021)

Has anyone added the world's dullest fact, that balsa is classified as a hardwood?

My work here is done.


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## Reynard (6 Nov 2021)

Those large plastic clips you use to keep cereal packets closed etc are a real help to keep things in place while glue sets.


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## Cycleops (7 Nov 2021)

Clips, clamps and elastic bands are pretty much indispensable when building kits.


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## chriswoody (7 Nov 2021)

I've been trying to avoid buying too many new bits and bobs for these planes, it's just meant to be a bit of winter fun rather than anything too serious. So far I've been using wooden clothes pegs and elastic bands which have helped a lot, hopefully I won't have a need again for a more serious clamp.


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## Drago (7 Nov 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Has anyone added the world's dullest fact, that balsa is classified as a hardwood?
> 
> My work here is done.


Yes indeed. Whether a wood is a hardwood or a softwood has nothing to do with its physical properties, but refers to whether it originates from deciduous or a coniferous source. This is wildly misunderstood in the guitar world.

Project is looking good, watching with great interest,


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## MichaelW2 (7 Nov 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> I've my son's part assembled Keil Kraft Fairey Gannet somewhere in the garage, along with 3 finished aircraft. Rubber powered. I remember them flying quite well. I made numerous KK kits when young, you could buy the rubber by the yard in the local model shop, along with balsa, cement, dope etc. I graduated to designing my own freelance aircraft, drawn out on paper and then transferred to the balsa using tracing paper. I remember the last one I designed and built had a V shaped tail, Jetex powered. I have fond memories of building a Jetex powered Hawker Hunter and a DeHaviland Vampire*. Both Keil Kraft. I eventually managed to melt my Jetex engines when I tried producing my own weedkiller based propellant, and then I got into cycling ....
> 
> 
> *edit - could have been a Venom, it was over 60 years ago


Fairey Gannet won in competition against the Blackburn YA7 and the Shorts S.B.3 to supply the Royal Navy with the ugliest possible aircraft.
The Short SB.6 Seamew would have won that but was built to a different reqirement.


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## Punkawallah (7 Nov 2021)

Blackburn Roc says ‘Hi’.


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## Reynard (7 Nov 2021)

chriswoody said:


> I've been trying to avoid buying too many new bits and bobs for these planes, it's just meant to be a bit of winter fun rather than anything too serious. So far I've been using wooden clothes pegs and elastic bands which have helped a lot, hopefully I won't have a need again for a more serious clamp.



Serious? 

Surely everyone has a bunch of different-sized bulldog clips lurking in the back of that one drawer in the kitchen that always seems to accumulate assorted random gubbins? Or am I just weird?


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## carpiste (7 Nov 2021)

I have all sorts of clamps and straps in the back of a cupboard thar have been used on various guitar projects. They always come in handy again .... eventually!


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## Bonefish Blues (7 Nov 2021)

Reynard said:


> Serious?
> 
> Surely everyone has a bunch of different-sized bulldog clips lurking in the back of that one drawer in the kitchen that always seems to accumulate assorted random gubbins? Or am I just weird?


I have 4 affixed to my desk tidy not 3 ft away from my keyboard. In case of emergency.

Or something.


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## simongt (7 Nov 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> Recently tried to get grandson interested in Airfix kit building, not very successfully.


Likewise. Both grandsons and grandaughter showed initial interest, but waned pretty quickly when 'other things' distracted their attention - !


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## chriswoody (26 Nov 2021)

So I've still been tinkering away at the Tiger Moth, I've built all four wings now.







There's still a little bit of work left to do, I need to trim the main spars and sand the leading and trailing edges to the correct profile. There's over eight hours alone in the parts above.

Next up was the Cabane Struts and the Decalage jigs. The jigs are to aid alignment of the wings when it all finally goes together.






The precise nature of the Laser cut parts can be seen in the photo below of a trail fit of the Cabane struts and fuel tank, the joins is barely discernible the fit is so precise.






Finally, I've built the tailplane, this was a tricky little thing to get right and the first small issue I've come across. The main spar that runs along the middle was slightly longer than the version drawn on the plan. We're only talking about half a millimetre or so, but it threw out the alignment of some of the other pieces. Lots of pinning and re-pinning of parts on the plan before committing to glue. The ribs all had to be cut to the correct length as well from a single piece of square stock. It all worked out in the end though.






So lots of small assemblies built so far, it's taken a number of hours, but all very enjoyable and lots more challenges lay ahead.


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## simongt (29 Nov 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> balsa is classified as a hardwood?


But has anyone tried cutting down a balsa tree with an axe - ? According to Thor Heyerdal, when they were harvesting the balsa for Kontiki, it was a sod to cut as it has a very rubbery texture resulting in the axe blows being absorbed by the fibre of the wood thus reducing the ability of the axe to cut effectively.


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## Bonefish Blues (29 Nov 2021)

simongt said:


> But has anyone tried cutting down a balsa tree with an axe - ? According to Thor Heyerdal, when they were harvesting the balsa for Kontiki, it was a sod to cut as it has a very rubbery texture resulting in the axe blows being absorbed by the fibre of the wood thus reducing the ability of the axe to cut effectively.


Tsk. Everyone knows it's cut down using craft knives!


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## simongt (1 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Tsk. Everyone knows it's cut down using craft knives!


So that's where Heyerdal got it wrong - !


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## chriswoody (14 Dec 2021)

So with all of the flying surfaces built, it was on to the fuselage where the first job was to add strengthening strips to the formers and parts of the fuselage. 






With those added it was time to glue the formers in place on one side using a set square to make sure they were at a perfect right angle to the fuselage side. Then when it was all set and square I added the other fuselage side.






Then it was on to the part I'd been dreading. In order to get the correct taper at the nose and tail, the instructions call for the sides to be scored deeply and then "crack" the sides so they taper in correctly. The nose has the added complication of the fact that not only does it taper in horizontally but vertically too. Working slowly and deliberately with lots of checking for fit I finally committed to glue. The rear was completed in the same manner, but without the added complication of the vertical taper.






With that done, I ran some superglue down the score lines in the fuselage sides in order to strengthen them up again. So there we are, lots of work to get to this point and it's starting to look good. The next step with the fuselage is to trim and glue in all of the stringers that make up the top half of the fuselage.


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## Reynard (14 Dec 2021)

Looking good! 

It's a right old headache when things start curving / bending in multiple planes. (Pun not intentional, might I add...)


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## a.twiddler (14 Dec 2021)

It's becoming gratifyingly three dimensional.


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## chriswoody (14 Dec 2021)

Reynard said:


> Looking good!
> 
> It's a right old headache when things start curving / bending in multiple planes. (Pun not intentional, might I add...)



It is a real pain, especially when you're dealing with a medium as fragile as balsa. It's not quite as perfectly true as I'd like, but I think I might get away with it. (It was a good pun though to be fair)



a.twiddler said:


> It's becoming gratifyingly three dimensional.



The one downside to this kit that so far, is that it's been a group of rather flat two dimensional shapes that don't come together until after the tissue covering. So as you say, it's gratifying to actually see the fuselage take a three dimensional shape.


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## Reynard (14 Dec 2021)

chriswoody said:


> It is a real pain, especially when you're dealing with a medium as fragile as balsa. It's not quite as perfectly true as I'd like, but I think I might get away with it. (It was a good pun though to be fair)



I bet... One slip and it's down the pan. More so with it being a kit.

This is where scratch modelling has its advantages over a kit, as you can always re-make a part if it breaks or it's not quite right. Though I've had similar issues with the roll cage and the rear wing mounting struts on my Higman model, and it's a bit of a headache.


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## chriswoody (3 Feb 2022)

So I've not abandoned these planes, just been a little busy. Last time I'd completed the lower fuselage assembly on the Tiger Moth and it was now time to turn my attention to the upper fuselage and the stringers.






The stringers are comprised of square strips cut to length from both the lighter, softer balsa sheet and the harder balsa sheet, so it's important to get them right. The plans are quite detailed as well as the instructions, but you do need to read them several times and make sure it's clear in your head.





I found it best to do them out of order, because once you trimmed the stringer to the correct length you were invariably left with a piece that could be used elsewhere ad it was easy to lose track on whether it was a soft or hard piece of balsa. Some of the stringers also needed to be "Cracked" and bevelled so they could conform to the shape of the fuselage as it tapered in.





Once finished, it's made the whole structure really light, but crucially, really strong. Quite a satisfying piece of work overall and much closer now to finishing the construction part and I'm starting to think about covering with tissue paper.


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## steveindenmark (5 Feb 2022)

It looks like an aeroplane. You are heading in the right direcrion. 👏👏👏


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## chriswoody (6 Feb 2022)

Thanks @steveindenmark I'm glad it's looking like a plane, that's half the battle! 

So moving forward, the next job was to build the nose block. This will be removable so that you can wind up the rubber band and also needs to look like the distinctive cowling of the Tiger Moth. First job was to glue together the various layers that make up the block, a drill bit was used to make sure the central hole lined up, later a plastic grommet will go through here and the main motor hook, so it needs to be straight.









Once the laminate structure is finished, it's out with the sand paper and a very satisfying few hours pass, as I shape the block into the distinctive nose of the Tiger Moth and I'm really pleased with the final result.









As well as working on the Tiger Moth, my Son and I, sat down with the Pilot for a couple of hours this afternoon,as the wind and rain lashed the windows outside. We built up the Starboard wing on the plan, which curiously, was slightly undersized compared to the actual wing. We managed to get there though, lining it all up before committing to glue and it came out quite well.


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## Oldhippy (6 Feb 2022)

Brings back memories of watching my dad building those kits.


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## Mark Grant (6 Feb 2022)

I took a bit of a break from aircraft to build these.
Hopefully be ready for when the weather is a bit warmer.


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## chriswoody (14 Feb 2022)

I've spent a few evenings now wrestling with the undercarriage which is quite a complicated construction. Unlike the Pilot which has the undercarriage wire pre-formed, with the Tiger Moth all you get in the kit is a long straight piece of Piano wire. The is a template to follow on the plan, but it's a tricky job to make sure that the wire stays in two dimensions as you fold it. 






The main undercarriage is formed from four parts and creates a strong 3 dimensional shape when it's all connected. In order to connect it together, VMC recommend using either solder or cotton thread. Being as I don't have a soldering iron, I used the thread method. Wrapping each joint in thread was fiddly to say the least and when finished some superglue was dripped on to the thread's with a pin.






So far, only two sections are joined, the two stabilising struts will attach when the final assembly occurs. The wire is also attached to a wooden cross member and here whilst supergluing the thread to the wood, I had to be careful to not touch the wire with the superglue, so that the whole assembly is free to rotate fore and aft on the beam.


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## derrick (15 Feb 2022)

[/QUOTE][
I took a bit of a break from aircraft to build these.
Hopefully be ready for when the weather is a bit warmer.
[/QUOTE]
Been building this over the last few weeks.


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## chriswoody (19 Feb 2022)

So my son and I have been busy building the wings on the pilot. The rear tailplane is a simple affair, consisting of only three pieces. The only challenge is making sure the vertical stabilisers are at 90 degrees to the horizontal stabiliser. Using an old off cut of wood and a small off cut of slate, we managed to get the three pieces aligned pretty much Bob on.





The wing was fairly straight forward and the two halves were built up indepentaly on the plan before gluing together after it was all dry. Just before I glued the sections together, the leading edges were rounded off and the trailing edges sanded down.

So with the wings placed on the top of the plane, the construction of this one is finished. We just need to cover the wing in tissue and dope it. It's quite a size and I'm quite excited to see it fly, just need to get my head around the next steps, it could still easily all go wrong!


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## midlife (19 Feb 2022)

[
I took a bit of a break from aircraft to build these.
Hopefully be ready for when the weather is a bit warmer.
[/QUOTE]
Been building this over the last few weeks.
View attachment 631062

[/QUOTE]

Is it Bluebird?


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## derrick (19 Feb 2022)

midlife said:


> [
> I took a bit of a break from aircraft to build these.
> Hopefully be ready for when the weather is a bit warmer.


Been building this over the last few weeks.
View attachment 631062

[/QUOTE]

Is it Bluebird?
[/QUOTE]
It's a bit quicker. Will post another pic later.


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## chriswoody (21 Apr 2022)

So I've still been pottering away at these planes. With most of the major sub structures built the next step is covering them. The moment I have been quietly dreading, but nothing for it but to plunge straight on in. First up, was to cut a section of tissue and with a glue stick, then glue the part on to the tissue. I had to be careful to only glue the edges of the part, or else the tissue wouldn't shrink properly later on.





I thin trimmed the tissue to within a millimeter of the wood and then using a 50/50 wood glue/water mix, I gently painted the edge of the tissue and folded it over the edge of the part.










With drying time as well, this has been a long process, to cut, trim and apply all of the tissue. I then decided to move on and attempt to shrink the tissue and for the first attempt I decided to try the rear tailplane, not my brightest idea. I've subsequently discovered that they are amongst the hardest components to shrink properly because of their light structure it hard to stop them warping. Yep I created a Pringle! To be fair there were a also a number of issues in my technique and equipment, so it was of to do some research.

I then stumbled on to a website which advocated the spice pot method, which looked interesting and more likely to create a straight outcome. So with some trepidation, after a dry run, I sprayed one of the wings with water and set it down under the spice jars.





Several hours later, I was over the moon to see a tightly shrunk and warp free wing emerge from under the spice pots.






I've also covered the fuselage, as much as needed at this stage, so I just need to shrink and dope the rest of the main components, then a myriad of small components need finishing before assembly can start. I might have mentioned at the start, I can be a little slow with these things!


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## midlife (21 Apr 2022)

Coming along , did you pre shrink with some water first?


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## chriswoody (21 Apr 2022)

That's all I've done so far with the wing and fuselage in the last picture, is to pre-shrink it with water.

I have used dope on the "pringled" tailplane and whilst it was wet from that, I weighed it down again and that seems to have flattened it out to a relatively straight profile. I've yet to use dope on anything else though.


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## midlife (21 Apr 2022)

Silly question from 40 years ago, do the plans design in some washout when you dope the wings?


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## chriswoody (21 Apr 2022)

Now that's interesting, there's no mention of wash out at all on the plans, however, I did come across the term for the first time on the website where I found the idea for the spice bottle method. The author advocated placing a thin slice of balsa under the trailing edge wing tip before then waiting the whole thing down. 

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comp8.htm

I did ponder this for a while, but in the end decided it was best to leave it. Primarily the Tiger Moth is just for me to have some fun building and then it will primarily be displayed on my desk, whilst I will try to fly it, I'm not sure if my skills are such that it will achieve much of a flight!


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## midlife (21 Apr 2022)

Thanks, I was just curious. Maybe with such a small model and a biplane it won't make much difference. Yep, lots of fun in the building


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## rogerzilla (22 Apr 2022)

I remember the smell of dope now


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## Illaveago (23 Apr 2022)

I can remember building a KeilKraft JU 87 Stuka when I was young . I thought I took great care in building it . Doped it and used bright green dope , it was all I could get .
Come the day for it's test flight . I carefully wound it up and let it go ! It flipped onto its back and crashed into the ground . I tried several times but it persisted in rolling onto its back, it hardly went forward . Thinking back now I assume that it didn't have enough side thrust to counteract the torque of the propeller !
Not sure what happened to it . I probably set light to it .


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## chriswoody (12 May 2022)

Well after I managed to work out how to shrink and dope the wings without warping them, it was time to use my new found skills on the Pilot and get it finished.

Doping is no longer with the infamous, fragrant dope that @rogerzilla remembers , instead the current liquid of choice is Eze dope. Unlike the old dope, Eze dope is legal to send through the post. You water it down quite significantly (70/30 water/dope) and then paint it on, before popping the parts back under the spice jars to prevent warping as they dry. Not having had any successful experience with the old dope, I can't say how it compares, but the result seems more than good enough.












There's a tiny bit of final fettling, but in essence we're done. The markings, along with the top and bottom panels of the fuselage, are cut from a printed paper sheet. The supplied sheet in the kit is tightly rolled and difficult to flatten, but their website contains a downloadable file of them as well, so I printed a fresh sheet out to use. I'm still not 100% sure about the fuselage panels, they can't be doped and are susceptible to damage, so I might yet just use some spare tissue paper instead.

Finishing the kit coincided with a period of high winds, which is set to continue for the next few days, so no proper test flights sadly. However, a tentative few throws down the garden suggests it glides well, if a tad tail heavy, so I possibly need to look at trimming it.


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## rogerzilla (12 May 2022)

The old dope worked like magic on the paper, but the whole house smelt like Middlesbrough.


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## BoldonLad (13 May 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> The old dope worked like magic on the paper, but the whole house smelt like Middlesbrough.



Middlesbrough never smelled that good


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## chriswoody (27 May 2022)

So the Tiger Moth is a completely different build to the Pilot, not least in the fact that it's meant to replicate a real airframe. So once I'd covered, shrunk and doped all of the flying surfaces, my attention turned to all of the ancillary bits which help to make it look like a real Tiger Moth. Lots of time, cutting, sanding, profiling, bending and painting later, we had this pile of parts.






With that job out of the way, attention turns next to joining the top wings together. First the oil tank is pinned back to the board, (the plain balsa construction in the middle of the picture above), on top of the plan it was built over. Then the wings are placed back over the plan they were built on and then propped up, so the wing tips are 9.5mm above the board. The inner rib was built at an angle to provide the dihedral, but blocking the wings helps ensure it's correct. The whole assembly is then glued together. 

In order to cover the oil tank, VMC want you to use a paper pattern covered in tissue, you can either cut this from the plan, or like I did, download and print your own sheet of paper templates from their website. 






This template has black lines printed on it, I can only presume to mimic the metal corrugations on the original. Once covered I glued the edges of the tank and wrapped the paper around it. The edges were blended in using the water/glue mix from earlier.






Attention then turns to finishing covering the top of the fuselage, first the finished top wing is used to aid placement of the cabane struts that hold it up, once they are glued in place, the top wing is removed and attention turns to covering the top of the fuselage. Like the oil tank, paper patterns covered in tissue are used to cover this area.






Some of these pieces were a right pig to work with, the small sections that sit behind the cabane struts contain many changes of angle and the edges of the tissue paper needed folding over to hide the edges of the paper, this part drove me crazy.






The finished article looks pretty good though, it's a little wrinkled in the photo, but it's still drying out and looks pretty good now, not perfect, but more than good enough. Close to glueing the wings on now and finally it might start to look like an aeroplane.


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## Andy in Germany (27 May 2022)

Very nice; I really appreciate good model making.


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## chriswoody (27 May 2022)

Thanks @Andy in Germany that's nice of you to say. I've not done anything like this in years, so I'm going very slowly and feeling my way, I'm just happy that it looks like an aeroplane!


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## Illaveago (28 May 2022)

I've got a problem !
It is a bit related to modelling . I can remember back in the late 60's when my friend and I were into model aeroplanes , the powered variety that we had to use hot fuel proofer to protect the paintwork and also preserve the wood from rotting . It was a problem with the new E10 petrol that reminded me of it . It can soften some paints .


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## Jameshow (1 Nov 2022)

chriswoody said:


> So the Tiger Moth is a completely different build to the Pilot, not least in the fact that it's meant to replicate a real airframe. So once I'd covered, shrunk and doped all of the flying surfaces, my attention turned to all of the ancillary bits which help to make it look like a real Tiger Moth. Lots of time, cutting, sanding, profiling, bending and painting later, we had this pile of parts.
> 
> View attachment 646503
> 
> ...



My dad half built a plane called ironsides prob about 4' span low wing but with same style of fusilage as yours I'll try and find designer probably Vic smeed! 

I must finish it with him!


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## gbb (5 Nov 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> Brings back memories of watching my dad building those kits.



Brings back memories of me doing them, whacking great plans spread over the dining table, great fun


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## gbb (5 Nov 2022)

for the life of me, I can't remember if, or how I used to dope tissue on to an airframe or wings now I see the term washout above. I do remember the smell, lovely.


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## midlife (5 Nov 2022)

Washout is the twist in a wing for stability. I seem to recall spraying the tissue with water and waiting for that to dry which made the tissue taut and then painting / spraying with dope bought from the model shop. Remember doing a few coats of dope to get the tissue tough enough. 

I guess it’s all on YouTube now.


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## Jameshow (5 Nov 2022)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/31419362...eJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=WHATS_APP
My dad tells me there is an un opened one if these in the garage!


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## byegad (5 Nov 2022)

midlife said:


> Jetex were small jets powered by solid fuel pellets. I built an F86 Sabre to use one but was pretty puny lol.



They were solid fuel rockets rather than jets, and yes were somewhat underwhelming.


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## youngoldbloke (5 Nov 2022)




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## Jameshow (5 Nov 2022)

Ohhhh jetex the smell!!


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## byegad (5 Nov 2022)

Jameshow said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/31419362...eJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=WHATS_APP
> My dad tells me there is an un opened one if these in the garage!



Ours crashed so many times, each time any remaining tension of the rubber would conspire to take advantage and crush the area between prop and cockpit. Successive rebuilds saw the area become more and more solid as balsa sheet replaced spars and paper. Sadly a final take off, with the full recommended turns (Well maybe a few extra ones too!) on the rubber, on the North Yorks Moors saw it heel into a descending turn under the effect of a severe gust. Hitting the road, (Instead of nice soft heather) the 75% of the turns remaining managed to rapidly shorten the fuselage to 1/10th of its original length, the port wing was ground to fragments, the Starboard wing parted company, as did the tail, both mostly undamaged. A rebuild this time would have needed a new kit.


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