# Hygiene - a schoolboy error



## glasgowcyclist (23 Jun 2017)

TOP TIP: don't drink water that's lain in your bottle for two days during a heatwave!

About an hour later I had awful stomach cramps with ominous internal gurgling and, sure enough, I was soon able to shoot through the eye of a needle at thirty paces. 

It was only then I recalled that I hadn't changed the water for a couple of days.
Eejit.


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## Slick (23 Jun 2017)

Yeah, same thing happened to my Bil but it took him ages to figure out what was wrong as he was the only one in the family affected. I've been pretty careful with mine ever since.


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## Sharky (23 Jun 2017)

When I've not used my bottle for a while, I put it into the microwave for 30 secs to sterilize it.

A long time ago (mid 90's), we went to Lourds and bought a large bottle of their "holy" water. We still have it over 25 years later and it is still crystal clear. Never drink it, but we just can't throw it away, so it stays in the garden shed.


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## hoopdriver (23 Jun 2017)

I cycled many thousands of miles in the Australian outback and fortunately never had any of those problems - which was handy as I often had no choice but to drink water that was several days old, as fresh water was hard to come by. I never got sick although a few times I could see algae forming inside my bottles.


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## glasgowcyclist (23 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> Ew! My routine when I get home from a ride is to use what's left in my water bottle to water one or two houseplants, then the bottle and top go straight in the dishwasher.



It was simple forgetfulness (ok, possibly age-related) that led to it. My commute is only 7 miles so I don't always have a drink on such a short ride and completely forgot when I'd last filled the bottle. I've learned a lesson and I'll follow your example, using the excess water to water our hanging baskets.

Sorry for spoiling anyone's lunch!


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Jun 2017)

Steradent tablet. Or milton.


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## Dave7 (23 Jun 2017)

Sharky said:


> When I've not used my bottle for a while, I put it into the microwave for 30 secs to sterilize it.
> 
> A long time ago (mid 90's), we went to Lourds and bought a large bottle of their "holy" water. We still have it over 25 years later and it is still crystal clear. Never drink it, but we just can't throw it away, so it stays in the garden shed.


You may well find it has changed into Vodka by now


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## Sharky (23 Jun 2017)

Dave7 said:


> You may well find it has changed into Vodka by now


I think it was more expensive than vodka.


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## Tim Hall (23 Jun 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Steradent tablet. Or milton.


A swift google suggests Milton would have been a fan of the FNRTTC:


> What hath night to do with sleep?”


 (Paradise Lost). Ah. Not that Milton though.


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## Saluki (23 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> Ew! My routine when I get home from a ride is to use what's left in my water bottle to water one or two houseplants, then the bottle and top go straight in the dishwasher.


Same but I wash up by hand. My kitchen is too small for a dishwasher.


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## mustang1 (23 Jun 2017)

Does this only affect plastic bottles?


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## glasgowcyclist (23 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> I don't know, but I can't think of another situation in which the nozzle of a drinks container, which gets put directly in one's mouth, is so close to the ground and vulnerable to being covered with all sorts of cack, wet or dry. The longer you leave it without washing it, the more bacteria you get?



I keep meaning to change mine for one of those that has the covering cap that reveals the nozzle beneath:


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## lutonloony (23 Jun 2017)

Guess I've just been lucky


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## nickyboy (23 Jun 2017)

User said:


> That might not be long enough. I lay the bottle on its side with some water in. Give it full power to bring it to boiling, then reduced power for five minutes to steam it.



That's rather more than I do. I just add the bottles to the washing up so they get a bit of a clean with hot, soapy water

Having said that, they have usually had Vimto cordial in them and that probably kills 99% of all know germs. I know @theclaud is a particular fan of the "Northern Ribena"


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## theclaud (23 Jun 2017)

nickyboy said:


> That's rather more than I do. I just add the bottles to the washing up so they get a bit of a clean with hot, soapy water
> 
> Having said that, they have usually had Vimto cordial in them and that probably kills 99% of all know germs. I know @theclaud is a particular fan of the "Northern Ribena"


Not drinking an anagram of vomit. End of.


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## Milkfloat (23 Jun 2017)

A few years ago I had glandular fever, about the only thing I could trace it back to was sharing drinks bottles during Hockey. Judging by some of the things that have grown in the bottles of the years my immune system is pretty strong. I once had a forgotten about recovery drink bottle that split due the gases that built up inside.


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## PeteXXX (23 Jun 2017)

I put my bottles through the dishwasher, and occasionally soak them in my winemaking steriliser stuff. 
The bladder from my hydration backpack has a Campden Tablet dissolved in it a couple of times a year, the rinsed well before using.


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## gaijintendo (23 Jun 2017)

Thanks for sharing. I never wash the things, I just let them dry out on my desk and rinse very occasionally... with similar consequences...


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## Ajax Bay (23 Jun 2017)

mustang1 said:


> Does this only affect plastic bottles?


No - this is an issue with all fluid (for drinking) containers. And it is particularly an issue with bladders and the tubes running from them. If you put stuff other than water in containers it's worse again. But nothing a good clean (every time) and regular (not every time) steradent tab treatment can't resolve. Bladders need to be left to air dry (ie wedged open) and the tubes need attention - you can get a cleaning kit to keep them clear (which is why tubes with a cover are a problem - you can't see whether they are clean or not.


glasgowcyclist said:


> I keep meaning to change mine for one of those that has the covering cap that reveals the nozzle beneath:


Trouble with those is that they're a pain to take a quick swig from, on the move. and on balance more trouble than they're worth (imo).


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## Banjo (23 Jun 2017)

I bought some bottles with the dome shaped dirt cover but couldn't get used to them so ripped the covers off.
not quite as bad if you have a front mudguard .
I swish mine around in a mild bleach solution now and then.


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## nickyboy (23 Jun 2017)

theclaud said:


> Not drinking an anagram of vomit. End of.



You'd love it around here. The owner of Vimto lives nearby and drives a car with a reg of "VI4 MTO"


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## wisdom (23 Jun 2017)

Put sterilising fluid in mine pull out the drinking nozzle and put the cap on the bottle inverted. Then top up the lid this makes sure the cap and valve are sterilised too.


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## mjr (23 Jun 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> Trouble with those is that they're a pain to take a quick swig from, on the move. and on balance more trouble than they're worth (imo).


Not too bad - just remember to flip the cover open before removing from the cage and close it after. I think they're well worth the effort with the shoot farmers leave on the roads to get splattered around.


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## hopless500 (23 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> Ew! My routine when I get home from a ride is to use what's left in my water bottle to water one or two houseplants, then the bottle and top go straight in the dishwasher.


Same here.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Jun 2017)

I just wash mine too hot soapy water, rinse 'em and dry 'em. Never had an issue.


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## Crackle (23 Jun 2017)

I've just thoroughly rinsed and cleaned mine now!


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## Pale Rider (23 Jun 2017)

My guess is heat - and sunlight - is the problem.

Years ago, I read an empty fridge runs less efficiently than a full one.

My standard size fridge is too big for me, so the middle shelf is occupied by three bottles of water as 'ballast'.

The point of this not very interesting story is the water is still fine to drink several years later, it having been kept cool and in the dark.


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## Rickshaw Phil (23 Jun 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> TOP TIP: don't drink water that's lain in your bottle for two days during a heatwave!
> 
> About an hour later I had awful stomach cramps with ominous internal gurgling and, sure enough, I was soon able to shoot through the eye of a needle at thirty paces.
> 
> ...


Thank you for conducting this experiment so that the rest of us don't have to.


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## Ajax Bay (23 Jun 2017)

Fab Foodie said:


> Never had an issue.


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## Salty seadog (23 Jun 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> My guess is heat - and sunlight - is the problem.
> 
> Years ago, I read an empty fridge runs less efficiently than a full one.
> 
> ...



Ahhh but can you be sure the light goes out when you close the door.


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## Pale Rider (23 Jun 2017)

Salty seadog said:


> Ahhh but can you be sure the light goes out when you close the door.



A fair point, but saddo that I am, I occasionally check the door switch is working.


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## Salty seadog (23 Jun 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> A fair point, but saddo that I am, I occasionally check the door switch is working.



Yep, always handy to know the switch works with the door open.

It could be one of them Volkswagen fridges that knows when is being tested....


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## summerdays (23 Jun 2017)

I used two different panniers this week, and hadn't realised the bottle had slipped into the pocket of my ortlieb! Yesterday I noticed a dampness at the bottom of the pannier and eventually fracked back to find a bottle that had had diluted orange juice in!! It had expelled itself and left a right mess behind!

Out of interest do USB cables and Aldi lights work after being dipped in fermented orange juice?


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## Levo-Lon (23 Jun 2017)

I keep my bladder pack in the freezer at all times when im not cycling.

I boil my bottle after a ride and keep it in the fridge ..
But then i have ulcerative colitis and a weakened immune system..i dont mess with tummy bugs if possible as they win..


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## gaijintendo (23 Jun 2017)

I flush my bladder all the time. I like to think it is because I have excellent kidneys, and nothing to do with my prostate.


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## CanucksTraveller (23 Jun 2017)

All my bottles and lids go in the dishwasher after a ride. They come out steamy, lemony and hot, and ready for anything. 
How dare you leave a brackish or questionable bidon for future consumption! 

There should be a _rule_ about that in t_he rules_.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Jun 2017)

summerdays said:


> Out of interest do USB cables and Aldi lights work after being dipped in fermented orange juice?


Ach, they'll be fine after a wipe 
I don't have a dishwaher (not enough washing to justify it), the bottles get washed in the sink.
In the winter, if it's a mucky canal ride, I keep my bottle in the panniers.
One of my bikes came with a bottle holder near the bottom bracket  I took it off, no way I'm having a bottle there, not even a tool bottle.


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## Levo-Lon (23 Jun 2017)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Ach, they'll be fine after a wipe
> I don't have a dishwaher (not enough washing to justify it), the bottles get washed in the sink.
> In the winter, if it's a mucky canal ride, I keep my bottle in the panniers.
> One of my bikes came with a bottle holder near the bottom bracket  I took it off, no way I'm having a bottle there, not even a tool bottle.



Lol she will be deep frying them soon


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## Katherine (23 Jun 2017)

nickyboy said:


> You'd love it around here. The owner of Vimto lives nearby and drives a car with a reg of "VI4 MTO"



The first time I had Vimto was when I moved up to Manchester 35 years ago and I'm still not keen on it. It is very much an acquired taste, I think you have to have been brought up on Vimto to like it. It used to only be available in the north of England but it is widely available now.
My maths teacher at my 6th form college used to award Vimto badges for special efforts. They were considered quite a prize! This was in Hampshire and none of the students had ever heard of yet alone tasted the drink.


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## gaijintendo (23 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4854458, member: 259"]I don't use reusable bottles on the bike as the whole idea is minging. I use water bottles from the shop and I top them up during the ride. And then I chuck them in the recycling bin.[/QUOTE]
Do you have adjustable cages, or is there any brand/volume that fits snugly?


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## glasgowcyclist (23 Jun 2017)

Katherine said:


> It used to only be available in the north of England but it is widely available now.



Do you mean in relation to the rest of England? It's been widely available in Scotland since before I was born. I loved it when I was wee but tried it again a few years ago and didn't enjoy it. I'm not sure whether the flavour has changed or my palate.


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## Katherine (23 Jun 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Do you mean in relation to the rest of England? It's been widely available in Scotland since before I was born. I loved it when I was wee but tried it again a few years ago and didn't enjoy it. I'm not sure whether the flavour has changed or my palate.



It's meant to be like a mixed fruit flavour. 
I didn't know that you had it in Scotland. The original factory was in Manchester. Maybe it went north before it made it to the South.


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## Biff600 (23 Jun 2017)

Just for information.

Legionella is a water-borne bacteria that is prevalent in most rivers and streams that can also find its way into purpose built water systems (your water tank at home) the growth rate of the bacteria is higher if the water is still or stagnant and between 20-45 °C. Plastic bottles containing water left in the sun increase growth rates too.


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## Donger (23 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> Ew! My routine when I get home from a ride is to use what's left in my water bottle to water one or two houseplants, then the bottle and top go straight in the dishwasher.


Good idea to wash it straight away ..... just not necessarily in the dishwasher. Mrs Donger put one of this pair of identical bottles in the dishwasher for me some years ago. Never again!


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## Pale Rider (23 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4854458, member: 259"]I don't use reusable bottles on the bike as the whole idea is minging. I use water bottles from the shop and I top them up during the ride. And then I chuck them in the recycling bin.[/QUOTE]

At the other end of the scale, I have a couple of '20 percent free' 600ml pop bottles which I've washed and reused dozens of times.

There's been the occasional unintended replacement when I've managed to leave one on a bench or it's bounced out of my trunk bag when I've forgotten to do up the zip.


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## Colin S (23 Jun 2017)

Never had a problem with bidons in a dishwasher. 
Dishwash after every ride.

If it melts buy a new better one!


C


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## si_c (23 Jun 2017)

I use the same bottle most days, just give it a rinse before refilling. It gets refilled several times a day. Will stick it in the dishwasher usually weekly. Not had any problems thus far.


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## slowmotion (24 Jun 2017)

Biff600 said:


> Just for information.
> 
> Legionella is a water-borne bacteria that is prevalent in most rivers and streams that can also find its way into purpose built water systems (your water tank at home) the growth rate of the bacteria is higher if the water is still or stagnant and between 20-45 °C. Plastic bottles containing water left in the sun increase growth rates too.


I was wondering about that during the recent hot weather. I think that the prime incubation temperature for legionella is about 37C. My loft hits that regularly during a heat wave. Suppose we go away for a week and the house is unoccupied. On our return, will we have a festering tank of evil? I know we could run off the tank before drinking anything from the taps but that isn't exactly topmost in your mind when you return, jet-lagged in the middle of the night. Should I call in a H&S wallah? It's a worry....


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## Biff600 (24 Jun 2017)

slowmotion said:


> I was wondering about that during the recent hot weather. I think that the prime incubation temperature for legionella is about 37C. My loft hits that regularly during a heat wave. Suppose we go away for a week and the house is unoccupied. On our return, will we have a festering tank of evil? I know we could run off the tank before drinking anything from the taps but that isn't exactly topmost in your mind when you return, jet-lagged in the middle of the night. Should I call in a H&S wallah? It's a worry....



To reduce the chances of Legionella you should ensure that your hot water heater is set to 60°C, absolutely avoid a setting between 20-45°C as this is the optimum temperature for the bacteria to thrive.

Yes as you say, the last thing you think of when returning from holiday is flushing the system through, but it should be done regularly and thoroughly to avoid stagnation, this isn't an issue during normal day to day stuff, as the flow of water is sufficient to clear any bacteria out. Even at work, when you get there on a Monday morning and pop the kettle on for a cuppa, run the tap for a minute or two. The bacteria is more prevalent in water systems that don't get used often, such as fire-fighting hose reels, spare bedroom en-suite showers and toilets etc

Just for the record I am actually a H&S Consultant/Wallah/Bloke/C**t with a clipboard*

*Delete as required !!


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## DaveReading (24 Jun 2017)

slowmotion said:


> Suppose we go away for a week and the house is unoccupied. On our return, will we have a festering tank of evil? I know we could run off the tank before drinking anything from the taps but that isn't exactly topmost in your mind when you return, jet-lagged in the middle of the night.



I woudn't dream of drinking from a tap that's fed from the cold water tank, in any weather. 

Isn't your kitchen one fed directly from the main ?


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## summerdays (24 Jun 2017)

Biff600 said:


> To reduce the chances of Legionella you should ensure that your hot water heater is set to 60°C, absolutely avoid a setting between 20-45°C as this is the optimum temperature for the bacteria to thrive.
> 
> Yes as you say, the last thing you think of when returning from holiday is flushing the system through, but it should be done regularly and thoroughly to avoid stagnation, this isn't an issue during normal day to day stuff, as the flow of water is sufficient to clear any bacteria out. Even at work, when you get there on a Monday morning and pop the kettle on for a cuppa, run the tap for a minute or two. The bacteria is more prevalent in water systems that don't get used often, such as fire-fighting hose reels, spare bedroom en-suite showers and toilets etc
> 
> ...


I looked into it when we got solar hot water on a previous house, and from the bits I remember it needed to be an hour at 50, or 5 mins at 60 degrees to kill the bacteria. So in winter I'd always make sure that it went upto 60 and above regularly. 

I'm one of the put the bottle in the dishwasher, but I do sometimes use the previous day's bottle in winter, but not in summer!


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## nickyboy (24 Jun 2017)

On one of my regular cycling routes I go past a toilet block in the middle of nowhere. Top of the Goyt Valley for those that know the area

There are no shops for miles around. It has a sink in the block with a big warning sign "This is not Drinking Water"

Every time I go past I stop for a pee and I fill up my bottles with the non-potable sink water. I haven't died, yet


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## T4tomo (24 Jun 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Steradent tablet. Or milton.


I prefer the taste of High5 tablets


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## Illaveago (24 Jun 2017)

summerdays said:


> I used two different panniers this week, and hadn't realised the bottle had slipped into the pocket of my ortlieb! Yesterday I noticed a dampness at the bottom of the pannier and eventually fracked back to find a bottle that had had diluted orange juice in!! It had expelled itself and left a right mess behind!
> 
> Out of interest do USB cables and Aldi lights work after being dipped in fermented orange juice?


Thank you for conducting this customer survey for us we would like to know the results of your findings ?


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## summerdays (24 Jun 2017)

Illaveago said:


> Thank you for conducting this customer survey for us we would like to know the results of your findings ?


Err I haven't confessed my sins (it was his pannier that I borrowed ) to Mr Summerdays so they are in a bag..... I'll let him take the risk!


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## Biff600 (24 Jun 2017)

nickyboy said:


> On one of my regular cycling routes I go past a toilet block in the middle of nowhere. Top of the Goyt Valley for those that know the area
> 
> There are no shops for miles around. It has a sink in the block with a big warning sign "This is not Drinking Water"
> 
> Every time I go past I stop for a pee and I fill up my bottles with the non-potable sink water. I haven't died, yet



And there's a good chance that you won't die, but the sign isn't there because the water is toxic, the sign is there because it is deemed that the water is not drinkable.

Therefore if you do drink it and contract Green Monkey Disease or you leg falls off, you can't blame anyone but yourself


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## postman (24 Jun 2017)

You mean you are supposed to keep them after each ride.Hell i have spent thousands of pounds on bottles for each ride i do.I thought you were meant to throw them at pedestrians as a gift.Bloody hell.


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## robjh (24 Jun 2017)

Biff600 said:


> And there's a good chance that you won't die, but the sign isn't there because the water is toxic, the sign is there because *it is deemed that the water is not drinkable*.


I suppose it depends who does the deeming, and how reliable their deeming is. I'm with @nickyboy on this, such a sign is unlikely to bother me in most locations, at least in the UK. And I'm still fairly healthy.


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## nickyboy (24 Jun 2017)

robjh said:


> I suppose it depends who does the deeming, and how reliable their deeming is. I'm with @nickyboy on this, such a sign is unlikely to bother me in most locations, at least in the UK. And I'm still fairly healthy.




This reminds me of how we used to go fell walking when I was a boy and my mum wouldn't lete drink from.the mountain streams "in case there was a dead sheep upstream"

I used to have sneaky slurps when she wasn't looking


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## Dan B (24 Jun 2017)

User said:


> That might not be long enough. I lay the bottle on its side with some water in. Give it full power to bring it to boiling, then reduced power for five minutes to steam it.


The trick is to give it long enough for a nice al dente consistency but not cook it to the point of mushiness


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## Gixxerman (24 Jun 2017)

I left some orange squash in one of my bottles for almost a week once. Went I opened it, they were things growing. I had the 'bright' idea to wash it out and leave some TCP water mix in it overnight to sterilise it. Well it cleaned it ok, but after many rinses and water being left in it for days, it still tastes of TCP, so I had to bin the bottle. Lesson learned.


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## Ajax Bay (24 Jun 2017)

Gixxerman said:


> Lesson learned.


So what was the lesson identified, and what did you change? A lesson is not learnt until a change has been made.


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## Gravity Aided (24 Jun 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> TOP TIP: don't drink water that's lain in your bottle for two days during a heatwave!
> 
> About an hour later I had awful stomach cramps with ominous internal gurgling and, sure enough, I was soon able to shoot through the eye of a needle at thirty paces.
> 
> ...


Isn't that a very quick incubation period for a waterborne illness? (Not that I know shoot about the waterborne illnesses of the British Isles).


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## glasgowcyclist (24 Jun 2017)

Gravity Aided said:


> Isn't that a very quick incubation period for a waterborne illness? (Not that I know shoot about the waterborne illnesses of the British Isles).



I guess it is, I know as much about it as you do.

I do know that anything else I ate or drank up to that point I mahaged to consume later with no such effect.


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## slowmotion (24 Jun 2017)

DaveReading said:


> I woudn't dream of drinking from a tap that's fed from the cold water tank, in any weather.
> 
> Isn't your kitchen one fed directly from the main ?


The kitchen's on the mains but the bathroom's on the tank. I don't brush my teeth in the kitchen.


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## Gixxerman (24 Jun 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> So what was the lesson identified, and what did you change? A lesson is not learnt until a change has been made.


Not to try and sterilise manky bottles with TCP ever again.
Empty any bottle contents when you finish your ride.


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## furball (24 Jun 2017)

slowmotion said:


> I was wondering about that during the recent hot weather. I think that the prime incubation temperature for legionella is about 37C. My loft hits that regularly during a heat wave. Suppose we go away for a week and the house is unoccupied. On our return, will we have a festering tank of evil? I know we could run off the tank before drinking anything from the taps but that isn't exactly topmost in your mind when you return, jet-lagged in the middle of the night. Should I call in a H&S wallah? It's a worry....


The main route of infection for Legionella is by airborne droplets. The thing to be wary of is using your shower after a period of non use. If you know the water is heated to a high enough temperature post tank, you should just need to flush through the water that's been sitting in the pipes leading to the shower before using it (after a period of non use.)
Hotels and the like should have Legionella controls in place to ensure their water heating systems do not incubate or deliver the bacterium into their rooms.


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## Reynard (24 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4854458, member: 259"]I don't use reusable bottles on the bike as the whole idea is minging. I use water bottles from the shop and I top them up during the ride. And then I chuck them in the recycling bin.[/QUOTE]

Likewise. I buy the packs of 12 x 500ml bottles with the flip top lid from Lidl.

Halfords do bottle cages specifically designed to take these bottles, so I have one of those on the bike. It was a deliberate purchase.


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## DaveReading (24 Jun 2017)

slowmotion said:


> The kitchen's on the mains but the bathroom's on the tank. I don't brush my teeth in the kitchen.



Me neither.

But nor do I swallow the stuff that comes out of the bathroom tap.


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## slowmotion (24 Jun 2017)

DaveReading said:


> Me neither.
> 
> But nor do I swallow the stuff that comes out of the bathroom tap.


I do. It's amazing that I've survived my utter recklessness.


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## hopless500 (24 Jun 2017)

si_c said:


> I use the same bottle most days, just give it a rinse before refilling. It gets refilled several times a day. Will stick it in the dishwasher usually weekly. Not had any problems thus far.


Same here... though the dishwasher bit occurs rather less freuently!


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## subaqua (24 Jun 2017)

furball said:


> The main route of infection for Legionella is by airborne droplets. The thing to be wary of is using your shower after a period of non use. If you know the water is heated to a high enough temperature post tank, you should just need to flush through the water that's been sitting in the pipes leading to the shower before using it (after a period of non use.)
> Hotels and the like should have Legionella controls in place to ensure their water heating systems do not incubate or deliver the bacterium into their rooms.




It's covered under L8. 

The duty holder is responsible for ensuring it happens. 

And it generally does as the new guidelines for prosecutions mean it doesn't have to have infected anybody! Just happen


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## keithmac (24 Jun 2017)

A lad I used to work with was big on the MTB trails, came in after one weekend and said he'd taken a big swig out of one of his bottles and the realised it had been spattered in dog mess..


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## Bodhbh (24 Jun 2017)

Not read it all, but if you're not gonna wash the bottles suppose there's an argument for sprinking a bit of bakers yeast in there, using fruit juice/water mix and at least you know what's growing.


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## Randy Butternubs (24 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4854458, member: 259"]I don't use reusable bottles on the bike as the whole idea is minging.[/QUOTE]

Is this serious or a joke? Do you refuse to use reusable plates and cutlery too?


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## furball (24 Jun 2017)

subaqua said:


> It's covered under L8.
> 
> The duty holder is responsible for ensuring it happens.
> 
> And it generally does as the new guidelines for prosecutions mean it doesn't have to have infected anybody! Just happen


My point was that there is more risk from the inhalation of aerosols.


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## subaqua (25 Jun 2017)

furball said:


> My point was that there is more risk from the inhalation of aerosols.




oh hell yeah. 

when I get home from Holidays its turn shower dial to slow flow , max temp Hold breath press start leave shower cube , shut shower cube door and leave run for 10 mins .

means we dont get the low level sniffles after Holidays . doing the L8 awareness course made it abundantly clear i was NEVER going to be the duty holder !


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## furball (25 Jun 2017)

For anyone who is wondering what L8 is, it's the Health and Safety Executive's Code of Practice and Guidance on Legionella. It's application is in the workplace and work activities relating to water provision. It has nowt to do with water bottles carried on bikes.


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## keithmac (25 Jun 2017)

We were talking about legionnaires disease the other day, was the main cause aircon units dripping contaminated water into the streets?.


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## subaqua (25 Jun 2017)

keithmac said:


> We were talking about legionnaires disease the other day, was the main cause aircon units dripping contaminated water into the streets?.


It's standing water that grows the bacterium that can be turned into droplets. A toilet cistern if left long enough and flushed could in theory be a source . Unlikely but nevertheless theoretical .


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## Gravity Aided (25 Jun 2017)

keithmac said:


> We were talking about legionnaires disease the other day, was the main cause aircon units dripping contaminated water into the streets?.


Water cooling units in the air conditioning at the Bellevue Stratford Hotel,and the bacteria thereof, which got into the ventilating system at the hotel. An American Legion convention was there, hence the name _Legionella_ was applied to the bacteria when it was discovered and identified.


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## Welsh wheels (25 Jun 2017)

Gixxerman said:


> I left some orange squash in one of my bottles for almost a week once. Went I opened it, they were things growing. I had the 'bright' idea to wash it out and leave some TCP water mix in it overnight to sterilise it. Well it cleaned it ok, but after many rinses and water being left in it for days, it still tastes of TCP, so I had to bin the bottle. Lesson learned.


Eww


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## Cycleops (25 Jun 2017)

furball said:


> My point was that there is more risk from the inhalation of aerosols.


And there enough of those on here already.


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## Welsh wheels (26 Jun 2017)

This thread has motivated me to clean my water bottles better!


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## mjr (26 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4854458, member: 259"]I don't use reusable bottles on the bike as the whole idea is minging. I use water bottles from the shop and I top them up during the ride. And then I chuck them in the recycling bin.[/QUOTE]
 You are the poster child for bottled water industry's waste.  You're more likely to win the lottery than get ill from washing up a bottle designed to be washed and reused.



Gravity Aided said:


> Isn't that a very quick incubation period for a waterborne illness? (Not that I know shoot about the waterborne illnesses of the British Isles).


No idea about the British Isles, but I developed rather nasty symptoms within a few hours of drinking a contaminated soft drink in Washington DC  (believed to be the cause because it was about the only thing I'd consumed different to my lovely wife who was unaffected and very kind to me for the rest of that trip).


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## Gravity Aided (26 Jun 2017)

A few hours, yes, one hour, I don't know. Do like every American does- blame it on Washington D.C..


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## mjr (26 Jun 2017)

Gravity Aided said:


> A few hours, yes, one hour, I don't know.


My sickness was such that the passage of time that night is not precise for me


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## briantrumpet (26 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4855499, member: 259"]Absolutely serious. The plates and cutlery get zapped in the dishwasher at 60 degrees.[/QUOTE]
It's a miracle that anyone without a dishwasher survives into adulthood.


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## Profpointy (26 Jun 2017)

briantrumpet said:


> It's a miracle that anyone without a dishwasher survives into adulthood.



I'm in my 50s and I've never owned a dishwasher

Anyway to the guy that won't re-use bottles - not being nasty but maybe you should try and rationalise this phobia. Possibly a hard thing to do but it is worth trying to understand and acknowledge these obsession type things even if you can't overcome it.


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## mjr (26 Jun 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Anyway to the guy that won't re-use bottles - not being nasty but maybe you should try and rationalise this phobia. Possibly a hard thing to do but it is worth trying to understand and acknowledge these obsession type things even if you can't overcome it.


I can't understand it. It seems much safer to use a bottle I've washed up myself and know where it's been, rather than every time re-play the lottery of trusting the distribution network and shop staff and all previous passing customers not to have sneezed on the bottle or otherwise contaminated it, given how many people don't wash their hands after using a public toilet.


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## gaijintendo (7 Jul 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> Thanks for sharing. I never wash the things, I just let them dry out on my desk and rinse very occasionally... with similar consequences...


Just to say, it may just be regression to the mean, but I have slowly been scaling the Bristol chart since switching to bottled water (as @User259 suggested) and cleaning my bidons.
I used to think a Spanish diet agreed with me, on account of things behaving properly when I was on holiday, but now I realise I have probably been maintaining a baseline listeria level at home for the last 5 years.
Thanks all.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> I don't know, but I can't think of another situation in which the nozzle of a drinks container, which gets put directly in one's mouth, is so close to the ground and vulnerable to being covered with all sorts of cack, wet or dry. The longer you leave it without washing it, the more bacteria you get?



This happened to a lot of riders on a wet PBP in 2007. They weren't using mudguards so got crap on their bottles.


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