# To those who use a helmet camera in London



## mr_cellophane (31 Jan 2011)

*Do you use a helmet cam? BBC Breakfast would like to know why. They are filming 6.15am and 7.15am tomorrow by the double decker bike racks at London Waterloo train station. They want to know why some cyclists find it necessary to video their journeys. CTC will be there.*
I wonder what time that will be on.


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## downfader (31 Jan 2011)

mr_cellophane said:


> *Do you use a helmet cam? BBC Breakfast would like to know why. They are filming 6.15am and 7.15am tomorrow by the double decker bike racks at London Waterloo train station. They want to know why some cyclists find it necessary to video their journeys. CTC will be there.*
> I wonder what time that will be on.




Quick, someone PM Gaz, he's our poster boy!  

I do hope they dont get all stroppy with accusing us of all RLJing and pavement riding etc.. if they do I'll go to offcom. Should be pretty obvious why people use cameras - just look on youtube ffs.


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## Bigsharn (31 Jan 2011)

I will be watching this intently, as above, for when they slip up and say something wrong.


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## gaz (31 Jan 2011)

what the &amp;%^@!!! 6.15am to 7.15am? If i leave at 7.15am i'll be an hour early for work.

<div><br></div><div>Can anyone confirm that the timings are correct?</div>


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## Adasta (31 Jan 2011)

gaz said:


> what the &%^@!!! 6.15am to 7.15am? If i leave at 7.15am i'll be an hour early for work.



But think of the ratings!


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## cyberknight (31 Jan 2011)

gaz said:


> what the &amp;%^@!!! 6.15am to 7.15am? If i leave at 7.15am i'll be an hour early for work.
> 
> <div><br></div><div>Can anyone confirm that the timings are correct?</div>



Go for a long ride ............


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## downfader (31 Jan 2011)

gaz said:


> what the &amp;%^@!!! 6.15am to 7.15am? If i leave at 7.15am i'll be an hour early for work.
> 
> <div><br></div><div>Can anyone confirm that the timings are correct?</div>




I'm presuming they've already got peeps to talk to, though it wont hurt to send them an email:

bbcbreakfast@bbc.co.uk


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## gaz (31 Jan 2011)

downfader said:


> I'm presuming they've already got peeps to talk to, though it wont hurt to send them an email:
> 
> bbcbreakfast@bbc.co.uk



I sent them an e-mail. I have a sneaking suspicion that Martin Porter will be involved. He is doing a lot of good stuff at the moment


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## sheddy (31 Jan 2011)

Chris Peck from the CTC appeared on an ITV London News item on potholes today (Monday 31st)


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## som3blok3 (1 Feb 2011)

Its on now............


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## gaz (1 Feb 2011)

Ben, you kept that on the down low.


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## jay clock (1 Feb 2011)

Magnatom up in lights!!


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## Origamist (1 Feb 2011)

Pretty good report. Film from Ben (+ interview), Andy and Mags and a few remarks from Geffen from the CTC.

No Gaz or Bollo. 

CCers - do you remember the B+W, tram-lined footage of Bollo (shot on a Moy and Bastie cine-camera) colliding with a horse and cart outside a workhouse circa 1910?


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## martint235 (1 Feb 2011)

TheMadCyclist said:


> It was a very good piece. Watched it at about 6.30. The CTC guy made some good points and came across well. The was a clip of magnatom's oil lorry video, a video of a cyclist getting knocked off on a roundabout and a *clip of a cyclist being punched by a van driver.*



That's Benborp of this very parish.

I thought Roger Geffen was a bit lame myself, it was kind of "Oh why can't we all just get along and play nicely?". I admit there are some nutters out there on bikes but they're not carrying two tons of metal with them unlike the nutter motorists.


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## summerdays (1 Feb 2011)

He's just said on TV ... that he has "some incredible footage coming up in 20 minutes" ... hopefully just before I leave.


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## asterix (1 Feb 2011)

martint235 said:


> I thought Roger Geffen was a bit lame myself, it was kind of "Oh why can't we all just get along and play nicely?". I admit there are some nutters out there on bikes but they're not carrying two tons of metal with them unlike the nutter motorists.




That is a wise move IMO. Unfortunately it would suit many people if the issue became a tribal war between cyclists and motorists even though the more extreme on both sides would like that.

Most cyclists do use cars as well as bikes and should be possible for both types of road users to co-exist providing there is good will on both sides.

The personal injury lawyer, Paul Kitson, is the CTC legal bod. His company achieved a payout in respect of my cycling accident well above my expectations. (I'd certainly rather not have had the accident though).

Not a bad article although I'd prefer the BBC not to call helmet cams the cyclists new* 'weapon'*.


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## rockyraccoon (1 Feb 2011)

It'll be on again in 10min @ 8:45am


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

will stick it on, i'm sure it will be made into a seperate watchable clip later in the day, like a lot of the individual stories


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

oooo its on


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## the reluctant cyclist (1 Feb 2011)

I missed it this morning but my daughter watched it she said it was "mad"! 

I put the BBC on when I was at the gym and the only bit I saw about it was people who had e-mailed in but even the presenters looked shocked that that sympathy was not with the cyclist. They read out the obligatory e-mail where the author was stating that cyclists should be taxed and insured blah blah blah - oh and the other obligatory cyclist goes through pedestrians with no regard I think it was!!!


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## darthpaul (1 Feb 2011)

Any chance it will be on youtube or somewhere? Cant believe they are surprised there is no sympathy for the cyclists, most people drive cars and we are just an inconvenience in their day. Good to see the BBC try and address the issue but there needs to be a sustained campaign if there is ever going to be a change in attitude from the majority.

Same ignorant motorists who dont understand that Vehicle Excise Duty is based on EMISSIONS and bicycles are ZERO and therefore EXEMPT.


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299627"]
Is anyone able to YouTube it?
[/quote]



darthpaul said:


> Any chance it will be on youtube or somewhere?



Me too!
I usually watch BBC Breakfast before setting off - trust them to put this on during the one day I didn't watch!


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## dogcam (1 Feb 2011)

Ah ok, wondered where all the web traffic had suddenly come from! 
Can't believe I missed it this morning.


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

So, where can I see it? Have I missed it and it's now gone forever?


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## Paulus (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> So, where can I see it? Have I missed it and it's now gone forever?




It hasn't appeared on the BBC iplayer yet.


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## Origamist (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> So, where can I see it? Have I missed it and it's now gone forever?




Try here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> Try here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181



Ta! But I'm getting a static image and the controls are greyed out. Work firewall thing? Or is it not quite online yet? 

EDIT ooh it just started playing.


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> Try here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181



Any idea if the whole article will be up ?


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Feb 2011)

the reluctant cyclist said:


> I missed it this morning but my daughter watched it she said it was "mad"!
> 
> I put the BBC on when I was at the gym and the only bit I saw about it was people who had e-mailed in but even the presenters looked shocked that that sympathy was not with the cyclist. They read out the obligatory e-mail where the author was stating that cyclists should be taxed and insured blah blah blah - oh and the other obligatory cyclist goes through pedestrians with no regard I think it was!!!




Was so tempted to chuck something at the TV when they came up with that.

Thought Roger Geffen was underwhelming. Not least because he seemed to gabble at ten-to-the-dozen have problems pronouncing things like.... SMIDSY.

SMIDSY? FUCINL more like (F*** you cyclists I'm not looking).


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## darthpaul (1 Feb 2011)

I posted this status on Facebook this morning


> Good to hear BBC news is attempting to change attitudes to cyclists by showing commuter videos.



First comment I got


> when you pay road tax, you may use our roads !!


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

here you go

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181


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## Bollo (1 Feb 2011)

Following the link, I noticed that this was #2 most watched after the Egypt protests. Pretty good result. 

I'm picking up an improvement in the greater road using public's attitude to cyclists and I think that's being reflected in the media's presentation of cycling issues. It's certainly patchy outside London, but even relative cycling deserts link Basingstoke are becoming more a less confrontational place to ride. 




Origamist said:


> Pretty good report. Film from Ben (+ interview), Andy and Mags and a few remarks from Geffen from the CTC.


No surprises that Maggers, cyclechat's own Louis Spense, managed to get some air time. 



Origamist said:


> No Gaz or Bollo.
> 
> CCers - do you remember the B+W, tram-lined footage of Bollo (shot on a Moy and Bastie cine-camera) colliding with a horse and cart outside a workhouse circa 1910?



I may not have been the best, but I think I was the first! Top tip - never collide with a cart made by the estimable coachmakers - Messrs Volvo and Sons. Their Barouches are particularly sturdy.


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Simon_m said:


> here you go
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181



That's still just the Benborp bit.


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

I was put off too by the use of the word "Weapon", said a few times. And drivers saying, "well, we will put cameras in our cars too!" Good, if it means it makes them more aware of whats happening around them, and it catches their mistakes - as well as ours


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> That's still just the Benborp bit.



ah yes, its not the full segment from this morning  perhaps someone recorded it. check youtube later


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486


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## Brains (1 Feb 2011)

Simon_m said:


> story:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486




Cyclechat is now famous - the BBC has mentioned us


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## nilling (1 Feb 2011)

Liked the way the CTC guy ignored the lazy presenters question about whether car drivers could use cameras to report law-braking cyclists <yawn>. 

Am I correct, that only the van driver assault resulted in a prosecution?

I watched this my 13yo D there is probably no way now I could persuade her to get on a bike again


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## goo_mason (1 Feb 2011)

Nice to see Cyclechat got a mention in the article (though I suspect we may be in for an influx of motoring trolls who read it!)


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## mr_cellophane (1 Feb 2011)

That first short clip is good - bus in ASL and taxi well past the stop line. But of course only cyclists RLJ !!!


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## Origamist (1 Feb 2011)

nilling said:


> Liked the way the CTC guy ignored the lazy presenters question about whether car drivers could use cameras to report law-braking cyclists <yawn>.
> 
> Am I correct, that only the van driver assault resulted in a prosecution?
> 
> I watched this my 13yo D there is probably no way now I could persuade her to get on a bike again



Andy (of this parish) was confident the police were pursuing a carleess driving charge - but I do not know if it has gone to court or not. Anyone else? 

Mag's incident has been covered in depth here and the PF's reason for not proceeding.


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## mr_cellophane (1 Feb 2011)

It is going to be on the 1 O'Clock news in a minute, so should be on at 6:00 as well.


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## AndyB (1 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> Andy (of this parish) was confident the police were pursuing a carleess driving charge - but I do not know if it has gone to court or not. Anyone else?
> 
> Mag's incident has been covered in depth here and the PF's reason for not proceeding.



Mine was the roundabout crash.
The driver got sent on an 'awareness course' as a result....

I did get a nice new bike and compensation from his insurance company.
CTC solicitors were very helpful.


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## Norm (1 Feb 2011)

Good to see CC mentioned on the Beeb.  Good work by Admin and a few others to get us on there. 



AndyB said:


> Mine was the roundabout crash.
> The driver got sent on an 'awareness course' as a result....


Was yours the one in Datchet? I still struggle to use that junction.


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## gaz (1 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> No Gaz or Bollo.



Yourself and mikey are also missing.

There are plenty of us out there that are doing many good things with cameras, all of us doing stuff differently.
I don't think they could have used better footage in the report. I certainly wouldn't have replaced any of my videos with theirs.


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## Origamist (1 Feb 2011)

AndyB said:


> Mine was the roundabout crash.
> The driver got sent on an 'awareness course' as a result....
> 
> *I did get a nice new bike and compensation from his insurance company.
> CTC solicitors were very helpful.*



Glad to hear it, Andy. 

Did the driver get points?


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## John the Monkey (1 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> I do hope they dont get all stroppy with accusing us of all RLJing and pavement riding etc.. if they do I'll go to offcom. Should be pretty obvious why people use cameras - just look on youtube ffs.



Unless we've suddenly relocated to France, expect a lot of hostile comment, if not in the piece itself, then in the commentary thereafter.


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## fimm (1 Feb 2011)

THere was this one:
https://www.cyclechat.net/
Quote from page 8 "The matter went to court and the van driver pleaded guilty to driving without due consideration and received 5pts, a fine ... and court costs."


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## AndyB (1 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Good to see CC mentioned on the Beeb.  Good work by Admin and a few others to get us on there.
> 
> 
> Was yours the one in Datchet? I still struggle to use that junction.



That's the one.
I've been back a couple of times and can't help but take it very carefully.

It caught me out because he was slowing down as I entered, then he accelerated across the line thinking the roundabout was clear.
There was nowhere to go, I was in his sights and not able to get out of the way.

It is a nice shocking piece of footage though and seems to make people think.


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## AndyB (1 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> Glad to hear it, Andy.
> 
> Did the driver get points?



I think he took the 2 day retraining course instead of points/fine.

It was a nice old couple coming back from Sunday lunch who had just made a mistake.

I think he was more shocked than I was and also has to have that on his conscience.


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## subaqua (1 Feb 2011)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af4n6wZCgs0



is the article. in its entirity. 

link taken from Bikeradar


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

subaqua said:


> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=af4n6wZCgs0
> is the article. in its entirity.
> link taken from Bikeradar



Good man!


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Nice one!


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## HaloJ (1 Feb 2011)

Interesting that the red light jumping/pavement cycling accusation was omitted from the 1 o'clock news.


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Simon_m said:


> story:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486



Oh FFS the comments are full of the usual bulls**t. Where do these people come from? Is there some kind of 'Anti-Cycling Spotlight' site that sends out alerts every time anything about cycling appears on a news site so it's members can stink up the comments?


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

subaqua said:


> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=af4n6wZCgs0
> 
> 
> is the article. in its entirity.
> ...





Who pronounces it SMEEDSY


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## HaloJ (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Oh FFS the comments are full of the usual bulls**t. Where do these people come from? Is there some kind of 'Anti-Cycling Spotlight' site that sends out alerts every time anything about cycling appears on a news site so it's members can stink up the comments?



Rather unfortunately the knuckle draggers are usually the most vocal.


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## Martok (1 Feb 2011)

HaloJ said:


> Interesting that the red light jumping/pavement cycling accusation was omitted from the 1 o'clock news.



I'm glad that they did omit it from the lunchtime news.

Again this accusation comes up in another cycling v motorist discussion on breakfast news earlier in January. The motoring journalist Adam Rayner (who clearly hasn't been on a bike for a very long time) comes up with the excuse that there isn't any accountability for cyclists and chucks in that cyclists ride the wrong way up one-way streets and jump red lights. Zoe Williams (journalist and cyclist) nicely comes back that you would never have a conversation about motoring where it was obligatory to mention drunk driving and speeding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12149696


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## asterix (1 Feb 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> Unless we've suddenly relocated to France, expect a lot of hostile comment, if not in the piece itself, then in the commentary thereafter.




Funny you should say that as since my accident I do most of my cycling in France although York is not in fact a bad place to be a cyclist.


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## ian turner (1 Feb 2011)

Hmm I was in London last Friday on Shoreditch highstreet when a pack of cyclists used the pedestrian crossing phase of a set of traffic lights to get through which was a tad disturbing given the numbers involved.
Check out some of the comments on the Guardian cycling blog for equally ignorant remarks from cyclists. Choice of transport doesn't dictate personality afterall.
Mind you I wonder how some of these folks would feel if their kids came home crying with a spot fine for cycling without a licence and road tax  
You may be able to get a camera for £15 but i wouldn't trust it to record for long enough and the comment about plugging in the hard drive seemed a bit optimistic.


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

Martok said:


> I'm glad that they did omit it from the lunchtime news.
> 
> Again this accusation comes up in another cycling v motorist discussion on breakfast news earlier in January. The motoring journalist Adam Rayner (who clearly hasn't been on a bike for a very long time) comes up with the excuse that there isn't any accountability for cyclists and chucks in that cyclists ride the wrong way up one-way streets and jump red lights. Zoe Williams (journalist and cyclist) nicely comes back that you would never have a conversation about motoring where it was obligatory to mention drunk driving and speeding.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12149696



My god, what a fat c*nt. joker!


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## deptfordmarmoset (1 Feb 2011)

Simon_m said:


> My god, what a fat c*nt. joker!



Yes, he gives scoff law a completely new meaning, doesn't he?


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

litrally digested all those books lol. What was yapping about when he said "I've never once seen a cyclist obey the law, or give hand signals". (recounting from memory but it was something along those lines). Well if he paid more attention to the road instead of scoffing his face with Krispy Kreme's each morning for breakfast, he may spot them!


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## Mad at urage (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Oh FFS the comments are full of the usual bulls**t. Where do these people come from? Is there some kind of 'Anti-Cycling Spotlight' site that sends out alerts every time anything about cycling appears on a news site so it's members can stink up the comments?


Welcome to 'The Internet'. where freedom of expression allows Trolls to Troll.


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## John the Monkey (1 Feb 2011)

asterix said:


> Funny you should say that as since my accident I do most of my cycling in France although York is not in fact a bad place to be a cyclist.



Good to hear. Manchester is a mixed bag really, but mostly unpleasant. I find it hard to imagine French or Belgian cycle commuters feeling the need to record their commutes.


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## the reluctant cyclist (1 Feb 2011)

Oh my gosh - I have just watched the you tube upload! 

The one where the cyclist went into the mondeo on the roundabout made me feel sick - that awful moment when you know you are going to impact and then the groan from the cyclist! 

Did somebody say he was from here and if so is he okay?

Is the lorry one Magnatom? It looked like the lorry didn't even notice that he nearly ran him over!

I second the comment above about the £15 helmet camera - my hubby got me one a couple of years ago for my birthday - it was more exensive then but now the same one is £15 - the quality is very good but it only records for 30/40 mins - I don't use it as my commute is 40/50 minutes long and I just know it would run out of recording ability at the exact wrong moment!!! 

Any recommendations for a cheapish one that records for a couple of hours at a time? (So I can get to work and back on one charge?)

Idiots on the tv as usual moaning on that he has never seen a cyclist signal properly etc - he's never been behind me then - or maybe he drives the cars that overtake me even when I am clearly signalling right WITH two arm bands on my right arm with 8 flashing red led lights on each band!!


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Blimey! I leave the country and look what happens!

Seriously though, I knew something was brewing in the BBC, but I didn't know it would make it to Breakfast, or when it would happen.

I'm actually in Boston at the moment. I'm supposed to be flying home today, but due to a snowstorm, I probably won't be leaving until Thursday. 

I'm actually surprised that the videos made it to BBC breakfast (yes that is my tanker video) as they are quite shocking. I'd actually have preferred them to to not be shown at that time in the morning. Too many young kids watching....

Anyway, overall the piece was pretty good.


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Blimey! I leave the country and look what happens!
> 
> Seriously though, I knew something was brewing in the BBC, but I didn't know it would make it to Breakfast, or when it would happen.
> 
> ...



in your video though, i seem to remember an update that the police did sweet FA over it?


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## totallyfixed (1 Feb 2011)

When cycling gets into the mainstream media for the right reasons it has to be good and I hope this kind of reporting isn't just a "one off". I guess my worry now is that the Clarkson mob and motoring journalists will now use their considerable firepower to highlight stupid cyclists, RLJers and the like and produce a piece for tv that shows most of us to be idiots. So while I applaud what I have just seen, get ready for the response, I hope I am wrong.


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Quick update. Despite being in Boston I've had 5 Live contact me. They want me on the show tonight (Tony Livesey show).

There will probably be a motoring journalist on as well. So I can imagine the rhetoric etc. However, I will do my best to do us proud! I will do my best to not be drawn into petty squabbles about RLJing etc!


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

woop woop


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Quick update. Despite being in Boston I've had 5 Live contact me. They want me on the show tonight (Tony Livesey show).
> 
> There will probably be a motoring journalist on as well. So I can imagine the rhetoric etc. However, I will do my best to do us proud! I will do my best to not be drawn into petty squabbles about RLJing etc!



Is it live ? what time is going to be on?


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Quick update. Despite being in Boston I've had 5 Live contact me. They want me on the show tonight (Tony Livesey show).
> 
> There will probably be a motoring journalist on as well. So I can imagine the rhetoric etc. However, I will do my best to do us proud! I will do my best to not be drawn into petty squabbles about RLJing etc!



Quick! We need to come up with something quick and snappy for magnatom to say that will instantly dismiss the whole road tax/rlj/pavement/insurance/license etc bollocks that usually comes up from these oiks!


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

hmmm all car drivers are w8nkers? lol. hmmm every car driver i've seen breaks the law, doesnt signal and goes through red lights?


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

I have a reply to the RLJing etc, but I won't be posting it here. Journalists have eyes.....


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

HLaB said:


> Is it live ? what time is going to be on?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00psvgw
1030pm-1am


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## brokenbetty (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Quick! We need to come up with something quick and snappy for magnatom to say that will instantly dismiss the whole road tax/rlj/pavement/insurance/license etc bollocks that usually comes up from these oiks!



"I'm not here to defend bad cyclists any more than you are here to defend bad drivers. I'm here to ask why so many skilled, law abiding cyclists think the general standard of UK driving is so bad that they are taking it on themselves to monitor it."


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Motoring Journalist: "yeah but cyclistis jump re..."
Magnatom "Look - could we please not bring this discussion into the gutter by lumping all cyclists together - no one here is going on saying ALL drivers break the speed limit, drive whilst on the phone, park on double yellows - I'm no more defending the actions of idiots who happen to ride a bike than I would, as a driver, defend those idiots driving a car. Those idiots behind the wheel are also a threat to us as drivers and pedestrians so why would you have a problem with doing something about it?"

"Oh an regarding the tax thing - can we please just put that one to bed FOREVER? VED doesn't pay for the roads. We all do, even if we don't drive OR ride a bike".


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

brokenbetty said:


> "I'm not here to defend bad cyclists any more than you are here to defend bad drivers. I'm here to ask why so many skilled, law abiding cyclists think the general standard of UK driving is so bad that they are taking it on themselves to monitor it."



Actually yours is better than mine, although I would add:



brokenbetty said:


> "I'm not here to defend bad cyclists any more than you are here to defend bad drivers. I'm here to ask why so many skilled, law abiding cyclists think the general standard of UK driving is so bad, *and the justice system's attitude towards it so dismissive,* that they are taking it on themselves to monitor it."


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## brokenbetty (1 Feb 2011)

Oh, and...

"Let's put our money where our months are. I'll stand in front of a light jumping cyclist, you stand in front of a driver on their mobile, then we can compare bruises."


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## Simon_m (1 Feb 2011)

brokenbetty said:


> Oh, and...
> 
> "Let's put our money where our months are. I'll stand in front of a light jumping cyclist, you stand in front of a driver on their mobile, then we can compare bruises."





*LIKE*


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

mgarl10024 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b00psvgw
> 1030pm-1am



Cheers, I hope magnatom is on early I don't think I'll stay up to 1 am ;-)


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

HLaB said:


> Cheers, I hope magnatom is on early I don't think I'll stay up to 1 am ;-)



I've asked the media centre to pick it up, so I'm hoping he can hint at a time that he's on so I don't have to listen to it all!


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## HaloJ (1 Feb 2011)

HLaB said:


> Cheers, I hope magnatom is on early I don't think I'll stay up to 1 am ;-)



Probably teaching you to suck eggs but don't forget it'll be on iPlayer.


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

HaloJ said:


> Probably teaching you to suck eggs but don't forget it'll be on iPlayer.



I must admit I'd forgot radio was on I player too.


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## Adasta (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299700"]
All this helmet camera business is giving me a headache. I feel that some people will have an incident, think WTF and go out and buy a camera rather then looking at and analysing their own riding. 

Having a camera does not excuse piss poor cyling, should never stop you looking at your own riding and you will (at times) be in the wrong. Just a wee bit of advice for anyone looking to go out and buy one - just think.
[/quote]

Wouldn't a _post hoc_ analysis be made all the more illuminating with the addition of a video clip?


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## Mad at urage (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299700"]
All this helmet camera business is giving me a headache. I feel that some people will have an incident, think WTF and go out and buy a camera rather then looking at and analysing their own riding. 

Having a camera does not excuse piss poor cyling, should never stop you looking at your own riding and you will (at times) be in the wrong. Just a wee bit of advice for anyone looking to go out and buy one - just think.
[/quote]
OTOH a camera can be a good tool for looking back at your own riding in the calm of the evening (without the adrenalin which accompanies hard cycling), and analysing your decisions for potential faults.


----------



## downfader (1 Feb 2011)

I have just sent a complaint to the BBC moderators over the comments on the following page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486#dna-comments



> I believe this post is defamatory or libellous for the following reason:
> These cyclists have NOT broken any laws. They have been going about their lawful right and have suffered at the hands of poor motoring.
> 
> This whole comments section is full of negative and inflamatory comments and only serves to rile people up. You saw how the cyclist was attacked by the van driver - when you leave these sorts of comment you are giving justification to others to assault us, or drive less safely.
> ...


----------



## Glow worm (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Quick update. Despite being in Boston I've had 5 Live contact me. They want me on the show tonight (Tony Livesey show).
> 
> There will probably be a motoring journalist on as well. So I can imagine the rhetoric etc. However, I will do my best to do us proud! I will do my best to not be drawn into petty squabbles about RLJing etc!



All the best for the interview- I listen to Livesey most nights as I'm a lousy sleeper - and he's generally a pretty fair interviewer, laid back too. I've never heard him mention that he cycles, but you never know. You could tell a small white lie and tell him you're a Burnley fan- he'll be your best pal forever!

Hopefully you'll get a chance to shatter the pig ignorant 'Road Tax' bo**ocks motons are constantly throwing at us. And all the RLJ crap. Honestly, I sometimes wonder how some of these knuckle draggers can really be so utterly thick. I can't imagine most of them are capable of wiping their own a*ses, let alone drive a car.

Safe trip home from Boston - Lincolnshire's a fine county


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## Brains (1 Feb 2011)

For Magnatom

In the heat of a debate you need to have the automatic replies
If he mentions:

RLJ - you counter wiith - Mobiles
No Lights = Speeding
Pavments = Drunk Driving
Insurance = Insurance
Tax = we pay etc. you need a snappy answer to this one. I use "Cyclists like horses and pedestrians have a RIGHT to use our roads, motorists however require an annual licence for permission to use our roads" and you can add "Motorists have no right to use the road"
Getting in the way of cars= See tax above

And if he brings the whole lot up in one go, then you need a line someting like "you find me a single motorist that has never speeded, or accidently gone through a red light, or answerd a mobile call or driven without insurance or tax or drunk and I'll give you a liar"


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## Ranger (1 Feb 2011)

Christ I had to rush the wife out of the front room quickly when I saw the first clip starting (I have seen it before) otherwise she might think cycling is always like that and I am only just back on the bike


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## downfader (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299706"]
Oh FFS, you get idiots with an opinion everywhere DF - no need to complain.
[/quote]


Doesnt make it right. There is a calculated effort by people to push us out of the way and discourage us. There is now every need to complain. The Beeb have decided that theres no cause to remove these comments, they feel its fair game. This is making them part of the problem.

I'm going to ofcom to see what they think.


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## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

I reported similar comments on a previous article. I was quite pleased to See them promptly removed. However i think there's just too many of them this time!


----------



## mumbo jumbo (1 Feb 2011)

I'm about to cycle home from the office. I wish I hadn't just read the comments on the BBC piece   

I bet you there's some backlash out there somewhere tonight.

Good luck magnatom. I'll be listening . . . 

mj


----------



## ian turner (1 Feb 2011)

You (DF that is) remind me of the workers cooperative characters in Monty Python and the Holy Grail "look he's oppressing me !!!" 
I'm not sure why they have a motoring journalist on. Are they meant to represent dangerous drivers ? In which
case it will be Clarkson. A representative of the police or transport related groups might make more sense.
Should the journalist be in combative mood I'd go for the management style placatory reactions such as "I hear what you say", "I'll take on board your comments" etc etc as these will have the usual effect of annoying the person on the receiving end making them appear more unreasonable without reflecting on you


----------



## downfader (1 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> I reported similar comments on a previous article. I was quite pleased to See them promptly removed. However i think there's just too many of them this time!




I have gone through the BBC complaints procedure. I couldnt get the ofcom site to bloody work in the end. I do really feel now that this will end badly. This is not the first time the Beeb have allowed such comment that is irrelevant and even inciteful at times. 

I'm going to complain about the Rayner peice too, its a catalogue that just keeps stacking up. 

I strongly urge others to complain too. This is your future and your safety we're talking about.


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Some more information. 

I should be on at just after 11pm UK time. The motoring journalist will be Steve Berry, ex Top Gear I believe.

A fairly quiet chap as far as I can make out!


----------



## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Some more information.
> 
> I should be on at just after 11pm UK time. The motoring journalist will be Steve Berry, ex Top Gear I believe.
> 
> A fairly quiet chap as far as I can make out!



Cool, see hear you then :-)


----------



## ian turner (1 Feb 2011)

On the plus side he has been criticised by his own side for being a liability when arguing with cyclists


----------



## downfader (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299717"]
Oh dear. Steve Berry becomes a ranting lunatic when they get him on the radio talking about road safety.
[/quote]


Wasnt he Daily Sport editor at one point, also? Sorry I mean the presenter...


----------



## Trevrev (1 Feb 2011)

[quote
http://www.bbc.co.uk...86#dna-comments






[/quote]


Wow! After reading just a handful of the comments on the above link, it's just really hit home how unliked us cyclists are.
I've never really thought about it that much before! 
Oh well !


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299717"]
Oh dear. Steve Berry becomes a ranting lunatic when they get him on the radio talking about road safety.
[/quote]

That's fine. Hopefully he'll metaphorically hang himself.


----------



## Bman (1 Feb 2011)

Good Luck Mags. I'm sure you'll do us all proud 

I wont be able to catch it live, but I will have to have a listen on iplayer


----------



## addictfreak (1 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> I have just sent a complaint to the BBC moderators over the comments on the following page:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk...86#dna-comments




I think you only have to look at Gaz's 'silly cyclists' to see why people make those kind of comments.

All drivers should of course comply with the law and give other road users time and space. Buts cyclists should also comply with the law, we cant have it both ways. Of course the registration and road tax arguement is bollocks, but insurance isnt such a bad idea.


----------



## Garz (1 Feb 2011)

What an idiot, bloody jumped up cockney stress head!

I think making someone attend some courses and plenty of rehab might dent some of his aggression...


----------



## skudupnorth (1 Feb 2011)

Simon_m said:


> *LIKE*



I like + 1


----------



## downfader (1 Feb 2011)

addictfreak said:


> I think you only have to look at Gaz's 'silly cyclists' to see why people make those kind of comments.
> 
> All drivers should of course comply with the law and give other road users time and space. Buts cyclists should also comply with the law, we cant have it both ways. Of course the registration and road tax arguement is bollocks, but insurance isnt such a bad idea.




If you comply with the law, as I'm sure you do, why should you be labled the same as the lawbreakers? This is the point I'm making. I'm certainly not defending the idiots, far from it. Those who see this behaviour know it to be a limited amount of cyclists (even in London).

I dont understand what you mean by "both ways" when all we need is one way - the legal way (with an understanding of what legal actually is). 

When we have DFT figures showing that 93% of cyclists are not to blame for the collisions they end up in with motorists it tells you that something is going wrong. It is at stark contrast to what the people say on the web, in the phone-ins and on the TV.


----------



## addictfreak (1 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> If you comply with the law, as I'm sure you do, why should you be labled the same as the lawbreakers? This is the point I'm making. I'm certainly not defending the idiots, far from it. Those who see this behaviour know it to be a limited amount of cyclists (even in London).
> 
> I dont understand what you mean by "both ways" when all we need is one way - the legal way (with an understanding of what legal actually is).
> 
> When we have DFT figures showing that 93% of cyclists are not to blame for the collisions they end up in with motorists it tells you that something is going wrong. It is at stark contrast to what the people say on the web, in the phone-ins and on the TV.




Of course the law abiding cyclists shouldnt be labled in the same way. But you only have to look a posts on this forum, to find many who put all drivers in the same category.

The both ways comment is a bit of a generalisation, there are certainly cyclists out there who are happy to RLJ and pavement ride, go up the inside of HGVs but still complain the about drivers and protection from the law.

Theres nothing that annoys me more than bad driving that affects cyclists. But when drivers are complying with the law and driving in the manor we like to see, you can understand them getting aggitated when certain cyclists please themselves. And they are fully entitled to their opinion, just as we are. Some are just idiots of course, who will come out with any old crap.


----------



## skudupnorth (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Quick update. Despite being in Boston I've had 5 Live contact me. They want me on the show tonight (Tony Livesey show).
> 
> There will probably be a motoring journalist on as well. So I can imagine the rhetoric etc. However, I will do my best to do us proud! I will do my best to not be drawn into petty squabbles about RLJing etc!



Fantastic news,cannot wait to see that.


----------



## gambatte (1 Feb 2011)

Sadly I feel we appear a minority of cycle users, possibly because if a cyclist is passed and is doing nothing wrong, they're not remembered. I cycle, run or drive into work, depending on how I feel. Approx 7.5 miles each way. After todays program I noted 3 bikes on the way in. 1 textbook 'good' cyclist. 1 similar, but understandably on the pavement (tight fast road and along an industrial area. No peds or side roads). Third was a 'all the gear and no idea' apart from the gear he didn't have was any kind of light.
Tonights 9 mile run, I noted 7. 2 groups of 3 youths on dirt jumpers/bmx and one bloke, I assumed, on his way home from work. Not a light amongst them. One of the groups of kids was riding on the road, counter to traffic and pulling stunts.

End of the day, its not the textbook cyclist at the start of the day I remember.....


----------



## iamanidiot (1 Feb 2011)

When you look at the comments on the BBC article, you can't help but feel that the actual intention of the article was to cause a bickering war rather than get something acheived. Still it's incredible (and scary) that some people (who presumably, are not violent themselves) would genuinely appear to think that when Ben was assaulted that he brought it upon himself. It's like the people that think that women are asking to be raped when they wear anything remotely revealing.


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## Lell (1 Feb 2011)

Trailer for 5 live: "We've got cyclists at war with motorists"

Jesus.


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Lell said:


> Trailer for 5 live: "We've got cyclists at war with motorists"
> 
> Jesus.




I'll make sure I dispel that right at the start.


----------



## ComedyPilot (1 Feb 2011)

Looks like my email to them (Beeb) worked.

Quote 

As a news provider and airer of topical subjects, would it be at all possible to broadcast a film on cycling from the perspective of a cyclist for once? Is it too much to ask of the 'great' motoring public to take a little time and care in their driving aroung vulnerable road users like cyclists - not to mention pedestrians and horse riders?  "It's not a race, give me space" It would be appreciated if a film were done without the motorist viewpoint of taxation being bandied around and instead focused on the real life issues facing cyclists. It could include interviews with leading campainers, talk to victims of 'accidents' (it grates me to use that word) and to families of (less fortunate) victims left behind to pick up the pieces. Hopefully it could show a human side to the tragedy, and for once show these victims were not law breaking ne'er do wells and red-light-jumping maniacs as some news agencies would make you believe? With the 2012 Olympics coming up, Britain is poised to do well in the cycling events - wouldn't it be nice to make life a little easier for everyday cyclists with a bit of press from a cyclists perspective on the roads of the UK? The health and fitness benefits of cycling go without saying, as do the 'Green' credentials. We just need the motoring public in the UK to have a wake-up call in relation to the road safety aspect - and for them to re-assume their personal responsibility for the safety of other road users - especially vulnerable ones. Sadly this year, a number of cyclists have already paid the ultimate price for their choice of transport - and their number include an Ex-British Champion boxer, and a potential 2012 Olympic cyclist. I ask you to consider this - Stop the CARnage - Save a Cyclist! Kind regards, Un Quote


I copied and pasted the same email to them a day later when a cyclist was killed.

Quote: 

http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Cyclist-killed-in-crash-on-A38.htm Another cyclist.....and another family ripped apart by grief, for what?


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Can someone please record this for me. As I'm in Boston I can't use the iPlayer.


Ta.


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## totallyfixed (1 Feb 2011)

Hey, good luck mag, I could be wrong but isn't Berry a motorcyclist? At least if that is the case you will get some empathy and you may be able to use that if he starts ranting. Can anyone verify this?


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Should I point him to my filtering video!?


[QUOTE 1299736"]
Just remember when he harps on about filtering to laugh.
[/quote]


----------



## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Oh great so once again the BBC feel the need to have a 'balanced' argument by having some opinionated blowhard representing the views of the motorist and turn the debate into a 'war' where someone decides they have to win and the listeners take sides, rather than a constructive discussion where people actually learn things and potentially even make things better for everyone. Shame on the BBC.

Next up on the BBC we'll be discussing how many black britons still feel disadvantaged in modern society despite the improvements in racial tolerance. We'll be speaking to Joe, who's parents moved here from Jamaica in the 1960s about his experiences, and the experiences of his children growing up as 3rd generation black britons. And, in the interest of balance we'll have Nick Griffin to share his views.


----------



## Scoosh (1 Feb 2011)

Be Good, mags - as I am sure you will be




.


I'll catch you on iPlayer ramorra



.....


----------



## Jezston (1 Feb 2011)

Following on from that is The Sky At Night where Sir Patrick Moore will be joined by Terence Philingsworth of the Royal Society to discuss the affect of the sun on the earth's interaction with the cosmos. And in the interest of balance, we'll have David McPipehelm of the Infinite Cone Sun Society who believe that the sun is a flat plane visible from the front, whereas the rear is an cone leading off into an infinite singularity.


----------



## blubb (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Can someone please record this for me. As I'm in Boston I can't use the iPlayer.
> 
> 
> Ta.



The stream does seem to work in germany.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_radio_five_live


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## Bollo (1 Feb 2011)

Good luck Dr B! Remember that it's talk radio, so they're looking for conflict. Don't give 'em the satisfaction.


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

blubb said:


> The stream does seem to work in germany.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk...radio_five_live




Actually it does work here, but I can't record it, so if someone else could....


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Bollo said:


> Good luck Dr B! Remember that it's talk radio, so they're looking for conflict. Don't give 'em the satisfaction.



Indeed. I will be soooo polite!


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## Bollo (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Indeed. I will be soooo polite!



But you're a Weegie. How can we tell?


----------



## Lell (1 Feb 2011)

Bollo said:


> Good luck Dr B! Remember that it's talk radio, so they're looking for conflict. Don't give 'em the satisfaction.



No shoot they are looking for conflict: "Who is the biggest menace on the roads, cyclists or motorists?"


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Bollo said:


> But you're a Weegie. How can we tell?




I can't give anyone a Glasgow Kiss from this far away anyway!


----------



## iamanidiot (1 Feb 2011)

I'm recording it, I was recording it anyway, but just so you know someone's recording it, i'll post a link up.


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

They haven't called me yet! Maybe they have chickened out!


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Ah, slight delay. Hopefully on soon...


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## Bollo (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Ah, slight delay. Hopefully on soon...



You are so a media whore.


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

The current item is "Where you found love" and is talking about two naked people getting together.
It's a good job you didn't get called for this segment - I think I'm happier not knowing those details about you Magnatom.


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

mgarl10024 said:


> The current item is "Where you found love" and is talking about two naked people getting together.
> It's a good job you didn't get called for this segment - I think I'm happier not knowing those details about you Magnatom.





on next


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> on next



On now! Best of luck! How exciting!


----------



## ohnovino (1 Feb 2011)

"Who's the biggest danger on the roads? Is it motorists, or is it actually _cyclists_?"

Turned off, goodbye...


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## germanicdogman (1 Feb 2011)

mags is on live now


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## Andy84 (1 Feb 2011)

Great intro


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

So what do you guys think?


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## gaz (1 Feb 2011)

Missed the start, but it seemed to turn into the usual crap about cyclist should be accountable.

That isn't the big issue. The road users surrounded by metal cause serious damage to all road users. CUT IT OUT!

Posted at the same time as you dave. from what i heard, you handled it well. Clearly you had a few things ready for the usual crap. You made your points well but i fear that the usual motorist on the board got the upper hand as he will appeal to the greater public.

I listend to Andreas ( the guy that runs London Cyclists blog) on LBC a few weeks ago, and he had similar issues.


----------



## germanicdogman (1 Feb 2011)

you done good


----------



## mr_cellophane (1 Feb 2011)




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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> Missed the start, but it seemed to turn into the usual crap about cyclist should be accountable.
> 
> That isn't the big issue. The road users surrounded by metal cause serious damage to all road users. CUT IT OUT!



Bah! The start was my best bit. I turned cyclists v's motorists into good road users v's bad!


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## gaz (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Bah! The start was my best bit. I turned cyclists v's motorists into good road users v's bad!



haha i'll listen to that on the iPlayer tomorrow.

Edit. BTW i updated my previous post. check it, check it now


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

I'll tell you what, time is so short, it really is hard to say what you want to say!


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## Lell (1 Feb 2011)

You didn't get drawn into silly arguments - well done. 

Berry was a bit of a one trick pony - clearly had the accountability\number plate thing in his head and wasn't going to deviate from it.


----------



## mr_cellophane (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Bah! The start was my best bit. I turned cyclists v's motorists into good road users v's bad!



True
Then it got into a load of crap about accountability and cyclists being registered. What a numpty when he said other countries have registrations for cyclists, then admits he was only talking about Italian's on 50cc mopeds.


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## iamanidiot (1 Feb 2011)

I was impressed that Road Tax, or lack thereof, wasn't mentioned once.


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

Lell said:


> You didn't get drawn into silly arguments - well done.
> 
> Berry was a bit of a one trick pony - clearly had the accountability\number plate thing in his head and wasn't going to deviate from it.



Aye, I noticed that. Good tactic, focus on one issue and don't let go. To be honest, I have no problem with it in principle, but as he is more than aware practically it is a total no go. Still, as long as I didn't come across as a tree hugging raving loony!


----------



## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

Firstly, I think you did very well - I'm not sure I'd have been brave enough to have gone on national radio like that, so well done! 

I must say though that I was a little disappointed with the segment (not with you). Given the strength of feeling (obvious from the texts etc.) I was hoping for perhaps a 10-15min really productive debate, exploring the issues. However, you got about 2 chances to speak, the other chap the same, and just two short callers, and everyone was interrupted to keep their answers short. Yet afterwards, the presenter was prattling on about nothing - he's now talking about a dog jumping on a piano!
Perhaps my expectations were wrong?

I thought that the other chap was very prepared and drove home the idea of identification/accountability - it would be interesting to learn more how other countries administer this. I also think that you did very well in getting across the idea that we don't think all cyclists are saintly, and that we can all learn how to do things better; and you countered the accountability/insurance idea well with the mention of house insurance.

And, you didn't scream once. 

Hope that's useful?


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

mr_cellophane said:


> True
> Then it got into a load of crap about accountability and cyclists being registered. What a numpty when he said other countries have registrations for cyclists, then admits he was only talking about Italian's on 50cc mopeds.



What I found funniest, is that he is complianing about cyclists, but then admitted cycling the wrong way up a one way street!  If only I had time to pull him up on that!


----------



## Andy84 (1 Feb 2011)

I thought the motorist guy was actually quite balanced, I don't think he and magnatom gave the presenter the 'war' that he was after.

They have said that they've had lots of texts through though.


----------



## HLaB (1 Feb 2011)

That Ex Top gear bloke was a bit of a one trick pony (Licence Plates  ). Brilliant example *not* of how it works well in many other countries, 'Mopeds are licensed in Italy' ( the last I knew Mopeds were a fair bit different from a bike and Italy was not many countries, you could count San Marino and the Vatican City but I think that'd be cheating).

PS I recorded it Magna, Ive left Audacity running in case any good texts come in but it doesn't sound like it.


----------



## rockyraccoon (1 Feb 2011)

Nice start indeed! Well done!


----------



## blubb (1 Feb 2011)

You done pretty good, however i was missing a strong argument against the number plate for bicycles rubbish.


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Bah! The start was my best bit. I turned cyclists v's motorists into good road users v's bad!



My concern when you said that, was that by implication you were suggesting (cyclists vs. motorists ---> good vs. bad)
cyclists = good road users
drivers = bad road users.
I know you weren't, but worth stressing in future?


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

mgarl10024 said:


> Firstly, I think you did very well - I'm not sure I'd have been brave enough to have gone on national radio like that, so well done!
> 
> I must say though that I was a little disappointed with the segment (not with you). Given the strength of feeling (obvious from the texts etc.) I was hoping for perhaps a 10-15min really productive debate, exploring the issues. However, you got about 2 chances to speak, the other chap the same, and just two short callers, and everyone was interrupted to keep their answers short. Yet afterwards, the presenter was prattling on about nothing - he's now talking about a dog jumping on a piano!
> Perhaps my expectations were wrong?
> ...




Aye there was very little time for real debate. Ho hum. Nearly time for me to get some grub and a beer anyway!


----------



## Piemaster (1 Feb 2011)

I missed the start as well. But on the whole: Magnatom. We are not worthy


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

blubb said:


> You done pretty good, however i was missing a strong argument against the number plate for bicycles rubbish.





Two main reasons really, one I eluded to is the practical issue. The cost to administer it would be huge and it would be near impossible to police. Do you have plates on 2 year old scoot bikes, what about all the old bikes, what about those who own multiple bikes, where does the plate go etc....

The second is the negative impact it would have on cycling itself. Do we really want to put people off cycling, or encourage it?


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## mr_cellophane (1 Feb 2011)

You should have mentioned that in America a lot of car insurance companies insist on a camera in the car and that a lot of the vids on YouTube are from bus and lorry drivers.


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## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

mgarl10024 said:


> My concern when you said that, was that by implication you were suggesting (cyclists vs. motorists ---> good vs. bad)
> cyclists = good road users
> drivers = bad road users.
> I know you weren't, but worth stressing in future?



Ah, but only people who are bad drivers would have made that misinterpretation.....oh...wait a minute...!


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

mr_cellophane said:


> You should have mentioned that in America a lot of car insurance companies insist on a camera in the car and that a lot of the vids on YouTube are from bus and lorry drivers.



I would have done if I had another 15 minutes......


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## blubb (1 Feb 2011)

Not now, but in the discussion 

Also it seems to work pretty well on cars not making them jump red lights.
It would punish the good road users and won't make a significant change among the bad ones.


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

blubb said:


> Not now, but in the discussion
> 
> Also it seems to work pretty well on cars not making them jump red lights.



Aye and licence plates do a really good job at stopping drivers speeding, using mobile phones.....


----------



## magnatom (1 Feb 2011)

So did anyone notice that I threw in one of Brokenbetty's comments from earlier in the thread?!


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## mgarl10024 (1 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> So did anyone notice that I threw in one of Brokenbetty's comments from earlier in the thread?!



I did. I was sat here thinking "will he?...... he's going for it....... pow!"


----------



## iamanidiot (2 Feb 2011)

Discussion

Right Click 'Discussion' -> Save Link As - to download. Just click left click as normal to listen in browser.


----------



## gaz (2 Feb 2011)

I've listend to the start, impressive dave.

I find it amusing that he basically brings up people like lucas brunelle, The police know who i am and some officers are subbed to me. If they wanted to convict me of an offence, they could easily come round to my house and knock on my door.


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## John the Monkey (2 Feb 2011)

mr_cellophane said:


> ... talking about Italian's on 50cc mopeds.



To be fair, aren't Italian moped riders often held to be the most considerate, law abiding road users though?


----------



## asterix (2 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Can someone please record this for me. As I'm in Boston I can't use the iPlayer.
> 
> 
> Ta.



Can't get it in France either  

..but from what I read here, you done good


----------



## Origamist (2 Feb 2011)

Mags - v well done. 

You handled the usual ambush/diversions/strawmen well. The advantage of a telephone interview (I assume that's what it was) is that you can prepare a crib sheet of ripostes and counter-arguments in advance (only a couple or so rebuttals per point) to the usual comments/questions that get dredged up in these kinds of interviews. I was pleased that you fielded the questions without coming across as a militant, nut-job  

Debating these issues on cycling fora is actually good practice and I thought you acquitted yourself admirably given the set-up of the show, line of questioning, and time constraints.


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## crumpetman (2 Feb 2011)

Just listened to it on iplayer, well done Mags! I think Berry was allowed more air time and his points were not very good. License plates on bikes? How about more education both for cyclists and drivers?

You came across very well with sensible comments and diffused the whole motorists vs cyclists nonsense straight away.


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## MrHappyCyclist (2 Feb 2011)

Just listened to it in iPlayer as well. You came across very well. The first bit about good vs bad road users was excellent.

I was disappointed, though, with the way the whole thing was hijacked by the registration issue, including the summing up at the end, which diverted attention away from the real issue of ignorant drivers who think it's OK to take huge risks with the lives of vulnerable road users. Like many here, I have taken the trouble to read as much as I can on good cycling practices (including Cyclecraft) and to analyse my own practices. I always stop at red lights, I give motorists space to pass when it is safe, I use cycle lanes when I think they are safe, I try to adopt the recommended road position at all times, I give very clear hand signals, and so on, but I still have problems every single day with these idiots, including the angry, impatient, ignorant prats who insist that I should be riding in the gutter at all times.

Having said that, on my commute, I am definitely very much in the minority when I stop at red lights. I see more red light jumping cycle commuters than not. I see cyclists riding without lights, on or off the pavement, and moving out without looking back or signalling. This is no excuse for the motorists to behave the way they do, but until that stops, the argument will always by diverted onto this "cyclists are all bad and not accountable" nonsense.


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## Dan B (2 Feb 2011)

Sounds like we need a simple and easily memorable response to the "unaccountable" argument, then. Magnatom made a good comparison with pedestrians, which I liked, but Mr Moton claimed (incorrectly) that wasn't relevant as pedestrians don't use the roads.


I'd be thinking something along the lines of "this is a valid concern and obviously nobody is suggesting that cyclists should be above the law. But in practice, if you drive regularly I'm sure you see many many laws broken by all kinds of road users which the police just don't have the time or the will to tackle even if they're told the full number plate and a description of the vehicle - because, rightly, they will be concentrating on the more dangerous behaviours. So I think the question that needs asking about registration plates for cyclists is how often the cyclists are actually causing danger to other road users, and is the problem big enough to be worth introducing such a vast bureaucracy in registering them and enforcing that? And on that note it's worth looking at the hire bike scheme in London which does have licence numbers on the bikes, where we see that over the x months of its operation there have been a total of only two offences which were reported with the bike registration numbers"

I wouldn't go down the "it would discourage cycling" route, because the listening motorist is not automatically going to accept that encouraging cycling is a good thing and convincing them of that is a whole other argument. And it's too long already.


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## joebingo (2 Feb 2011)

I don't understand why it always comes back to bloody accountability. We are accountable, we run the risk of dying with any mistake we make. Oh, and any mistake any other road user makes when they are near us, which is exactly what the debate should be about, not some self gratifying legal one-upmanship.

I'm going to check out your debate when I'm back from work Mags, though from the response here it seems you did well


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## crumpetman (2 Feb 2011)

Dan B that is an excellent counter to the accountability argument. On the whole, cyclists are not the cause of collisions and in the event of a collision the cyclists is most likely to come off worse. It is just not worth the vast sums of money it would take to introduce a scheme to have bikes registered nor the impracticalities of having a license plate on a road bike. 

Such a system would put off so many people. You would be left with the die hards (such as the commuters on here) and people with no respect for the law who would ride regardless just as many people drive with no license/insurance/MOT etc.


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## DrSquirrel (2 Feb 2011)

Dan B said:


> Sounds like we need a simple and easily memorable response to the "unaccountable" argument, then. Magnatom made a good comparison with pedestrians, which I liked, but Mr Moton claimed (incorrectly) that wasn't relevant as pedestrians don't use the roads.



A point to also make here is that cars have registration plates yet it doesn't stop them having crashes, and just reporting someone in a car with a plate rarely gets anywhere anyway.


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## Origamist (2 Feb 2011)

Dan B said:


> Sounds like we need a simple and easily memorable response to the "unaccountable" argument, then. Magnatom made a good comparison with pedestrians, which I liked, but Mr Moton claimed (incorrectly) that wasn't relevant as pedestrians don't use the roads.
> 
> 
> I'd be thinking something along the lines of "this is a valid concern and obviously nobody is suggesting that cyclists should be above the law. But in practice, if you drive regularly I'm sure you see many many laws broken by all kinds of road users which the police just don't have the time or the will to tackle even if they're told the full number plate and a description of the vehicle - because, rightly, they will be concentrating on the more dangerous behaviours. So I think the question that needs asking about registration plates for cyclists is how often the cyclists are actually causing danger to other road users, and is the problem big enough to be worth introducing such a vast bureaucracy in registering them and enforcing that? And on that note it's worth looking at the hire bike scheme in London which does have licence numbers on the bikes, where we see that over the x months of its operation there have been a total of only two offences which were reported with the bike registration numbers"



As I understand it, in Switzerland the administrative costs of the cyclist registration scheme outstrips the revenue.


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## DrSquirrel (2 Feb 2011)

iamanidiot said:


> Discussion
> 
> Right Click 'Discussion' -> Save Link As - to download. Just click left click as normal to listen in browser.




What's the file size, it cuts off for me, 6:57 @ 6.37mb - correct?


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## joggingbob (2 Feb 2011)

Magnatom,

Well done, you came across with a balanced and open minded view which can only help cyclists. Clearly not what the programme was seeking!


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> What's the file size, it cuts off for me, 6:57 @ 6.37mb - correct?



The Audacity download I made was 10.5mb (about 11.5min iirc). But I forgot I'd left the mike on so its got me sniggering a few times, especially when he mention 50cc mopeds.


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## Jezston (2 Feb 2011)

Dan B said:


> Sounds like we need a simple and easily memorable response to the "unaccountable" argument, then. Magnatom made a good comparison with pedestrians, which I liked, but Mr Moton claimed (incorrectly) that wasn't relevant as pedestrians don't use the roads.
> 
> 
> I'd be thinking something along the lines of "this is a valid concern and obviously nobody is suggesting that cyclists should be above the law. But in practice, if you drive regularly I'm sure you see many many laws broken by all kinds of road users which the police just don't have the time or the will to tackle even if they're told the full number plate and a description of the vehicle - because, rightly, they will be concentrating on the more dangerous behaviours. So I think the question that needs asking about registration plates for cyclists is how often the cyclists are actually causing danger to other road users, and is the problem big enough to be worth introducing such a vast bureaucracy in registering them and enforcing that? And on that note it's worth looking at the hire bike scheme in London which does have licence numbers on the bikes, where we see that over the x months of its operation there have been a total of only two offences which were reported with the bike registration numbers"
> ...



That's a fantastic argument. Although I would add the discouraging cycling thing as I think most motorists understand the benefits.


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## Jezston (2 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> As I understand it, in Switzerland the administrative costs of the cyclist registration scheme outstrips the revenue.



They have such a scheme in Switzerland?

I think the friends I visited in Switzerland a few months back and whom I went riding with might need to be informed!


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## magnatom (2 Feb 2011)

joggingbob said:


> Magnatom,
> 
> Well done, you came across with a balanced and open minded view which can only help cyclists. Clearly not what the programme was seeking!



Morning (yes I'm still stuck in the US!). You are quite right, I don't think I was what the programme was looking for at all. In fact I was 'bundled' off at the end, i.e. whilst Steve Berry was still talking the producer cut my mike, said thanks for coming on and then hung up. All a bit rude and unprofessional, but hey ho. 

There were a number of issues that I would have loved to have covered, and points that Steve made that I would loved to have rebutted, but you really are under significant time pressure and the interviewer has a lot of control to 'lead' your answers.

Would I do it again? Absolutely. The satisfaction in not giving them satisfaction is satisfying!


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## mgarl10024 (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> What's the file size, it cuts off for me, 6:57 @ 6.37mb - correct?





HLaB said:


> The Audacity download I made was 10.5mb (about 11.5min iirc). But I forgot I'd left the mike on so its got me sniggering a few times, especially when he mention 50cc mopeds.



My media centre picked it up ok and I have a 236mb mp3 of the show. If there's demand, I'm sure I could find a trimmer?


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## flyingtrain (2 Feb 2011)

hi everyone, i'm a new member, inspired by the bbc article.

i have thought about one of these for years. i commute in Edinburgh and will unlikly go a day without a close call with a motorist.

anyone know how much the whole package costs. article on beeb says £20 for camera, but how much is the rest? i would love one of these, mostly for the next time i am knocked off and the driver tries to blame me


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## Norm (2 Feb 2011)

Cheap cameras can be had for £20 and that's about it, if you have a handy SD card around. If you need the card too, that's probably about a fiver. They come with the cables that you'll need.


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## Dan B (2 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> That's a fantastic argument. Although I would add the discouraging cycling thing as I think most motorists understand the benefits.



I grant you that _most_ do (or should, if they think about it) but they're not the ones who believe this "cyclist vs motorists" bollocks in the first place, and the rest will think you're avoiding the question if you're asked "are cyclists unaccountable" and you go off on a tangent about obesity and the environment and how cycling reduces congestion for the remaining drivers. Better to get that in first or deal with it afterwards as a separate issue, imo


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## mgarl10024 (2 Feb 2011)

Did anyone manage to catch any of the texts that were read out (if any)? Just wondered if any were noteworthy?


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## DrSquirrel (2 Feb 2011)

HLaB said:


> The Audacity download I made was 10.5mb (about 11.5min iirc). But I forgot I'd left the mike on so its got me sniggering a few times, especially when he mention 50cc mopeds.



Someone else provided the link I tried, not you (or is it yours?)

Is there another one?

Tried the said link again at home and its around 6mb - so im not sure whats going on...


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## Eurygnomes (2 Feb 2011)

Just a quick comment about something Steve Berry said about youtube clips of dangerous cycling across London/Bristol. 

Yes: people do take those sorts of vids of themselves as well. You're never going to stop the 0.05% of cyclists who actually wish to injure/kill themselves. Just like you're never going to stop the 0.05% of motorcyclists who want to do the same. They'll always exist - for a short while at least. Possibly the best we can hope for is that they don't take anyone else out on their way. (seems harsh, but really). 

And I HIGHLY doubt that Mr Berry hasn't seen the linked video. It was shown to us in our motorcycle training course (obviously with the tag lines of 'what not to do' and 'how far can _you _see ahead at this speed'). 

Now, I'm thinking of browsing online for a cam. I'm tired of being cut off by trucks/lorries/buses/taxis down by Blackfriars bridge Every. Single. Morning on the way to Victoria Embankment. And then again along there too - more by coaches though.


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> Someone else provided the link I tried, not you (or is it yours?)
> 
> Is there another one?
> 
> Tried the said link again at home and its around 6mb - so im not sure whats going on...



I have a copy on my pc I was unsure what hosting site to use; I tried making it a movie (youtube) but for some MovieMaker doesn't like the mp3; it plays in Media Player fine


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## DrSquirrel (2 Feb 2011)

Try rapidshare or something of that sorts...

MovieMaker - add an image first and add the mp3 as the soundtrack for that...


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## ComedyPilot (2 Feb 2011)

Good on ya MT.

I would love Steve Berry (or any other pro-motoring lobbyist) to explain how a cyclist wearing a number plate will have any effect on stopping an inattentive driver from killing because 'I didn't see them'.

Once again the onus of responsibility for road safety is being pushed onto the most vulnerable, and THEY just can't see it.

I couldn't give a flying hoot if they fined £1000 for RLJing or any other traffic wrong-doing, because I am responsible, and ride accordingly. 

I just don't understand how marking and identifying cyclists (for prosecution purposes) will do anything to stop drivers running into, maiming and killing people on bikes - cyclists that were in no way riding outside the law, and were perfectly visible?


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> Try rapidshare or something of that sorts...
> 
> MovieMaker - add an image first and add the mp3 as the soundtrack for that...



I'll try Rapid Share ; for some reason Moviemaker never like the MP3 (I've just converted it to a .wav and it likes that  )


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> Try rapidshare or something of that sorts...
> 
> MovieMaker - add an image first and add the mp3 as the soundtrack for that...



If its worked its here; ignore my sniggering especially at the mention of 50cc


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## magnatom (2 Feb 2011)

Your sniggers and comments were the best bit!

If only they hadn't cut me off at the end I'd have pointed out the statistics that show that the more cyclists there are, the safer the roads are for everyone, not as Steve suggested. 

If there are any media folks out there, why don't you take a risk and allow a proper debate on this, not just a mud sling contest. I think you'll find that people would be interested in it, and it could make a difference.


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## ComedyPilot (2 Feb 2011)

It needs to be kept out there MT, but which 'media type' will champion a cause like this?


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## magnatom (2 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> It needs to be kept out there MT, but which 'media type' will champion a cause like this?



I'm not sure I can reveal it yet as the feature is focused on other cyclists (it will have some of my video in it), but I do know of another TV feature in the making, so watch this space!


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## goo_mason (2 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm not sure I can reveal it yet as the feature is focused on other cyclists (it will have some of my video in it), but I do know of another TV feature in the making, so watch this space!



Oooo, you media tart.... 


Good piece though; Berry just came across as an idiot when he blew his "they have registrations in lots of countries" case. You came across as very level-headed, open and well-informed.


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## goo_mason (2 Feb 2011)

flyingtrain said:


> hi everyone, i'm a new member, inspired by the bbc article.
> 
> i have thought about one of these for years. i commute in Edinburgh and will unlikly go a day without a close call with a motorist.
> 
> anyone know how much the whole package costs. article on beeb says £20 for camera, but how much is the rest? i would love one of these, mostly for the next time i am knocked off and the driver tries to blame me



I bought a cheap Muvi clone online last year for £15 (plus the cost of an 8Gb miniSD card) which surprised me with the quality it produced; you can see a 10-min clip of part of my commute using it here. They're sold in a number of places online - I got mine from Memorybits.co.uk, but I don't think they sell them any more. **Edit** You can get one from 7dayshop for 10.99 for the camera only, £16.99 for cam & 4Gb card or £19.99 for the cam with an 8Gb card.

It's not a great cam in low-light situations though; for any decent low-light or night-time footage, you'll have to spend a bit more. Many cyclists on here get their more expensive kit from dogcamsport, I believe.


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## goo_mason (2 Feb 2011)

flyingtrain said:


> hi everyone, i'm a new member, inspired by the bbc article.
> 
> i have thought about one of these for years. i commute in Edinburgh and will unlikly go a day without a close call with a motorist.
> 
> anyone know how much the whole package costs. article on beeb says £20 for camera, but how much is the rest? i would love one of these, mostly for the next time i am knocked off and the driver tries to blame me



Oh, and welcome along to CC, flyingtrain! 

There are a quite a few Edinburgh cyclists here. Which parts of Edinburgh do you cover on your commute?


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## deggers (2 Feb 2011)

Might interest people to know Steve Berry was abruptly sacked from his long standing job as breakfast DJ at rock radio manchester in the new year. Totally out of the blue, there one day gone the next-allegedly over contract issues but its widely believed its because he was a big headed '*anker' who always talked over his guests!. bet he was glad of the money!


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## cyberknight (2 Feb 2011)

I used a muvi clone that cost £11 + the cost of a SD card so £20 all in is a reasonable guess for the total cost .I ditched my movieing as in the winter all my riding is done in the dark and all you would see is headlights on my mainly unlit road commute 

Pity the radio clip was cut off with the 1st caller , well done Mags for standing in the ring !!


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## Scoosh (2 Feb 2011)

Mighty Magnatom



!


Typical Steve Berry/ experienced radio man to make a fatuous point (bicycle registration) to divert the conversation from the real issue (safety of cyclists).


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## magnatom (2 Feb 2011)

goo_mason said:


> Oooo, you media tart....
> 
> 
> Good piece though; Berry just came across as an idiot when he blew his "they have registrations in lots of countries" case. You came across as very level-headed, open and well-informed.



Ha!

It's funny, the course I was on in Boston was called the Entrepreneurship Development Program. Sounds very grand, but its all about learning how to write business plans etc (I may be helping to spin out a company in the future if we get funding!). As part of it teams (created during the week) had to present a business plan on the final day. I did one of the presentations with another team member, and whilst we didn't win the competition our presentation got commended. Funnily enough, instead of just presenting the plan in the normal way, we did it, as if it was a TV interview. I even passed over to 'Heather for the weather' at the end! 

I think I just enjoy the challenge of getting ideas across in public. I'm one of those weird folk that enjoy presenting. I find it a buzz. I suppose doing radio, TV stuff is similar in that I enjoy the challenge. That radio interview was certainly a challenge. If some good can come of it and I don't make a pigs ear of it, then all the better!

Media tart........maybe just a teeny bit....


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## iamanidiot (2 Feb 2011)

DrSquirrel said:


> What's the file size, it cuts off for me, 6:57 @ 6.37mb - correct?



Hmm, no. It's supposed to be 12.25 and 11.3MB - i'll upload it again.

Thar she blows - should be all of it this time.


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

Its on Youtube sniggers and all if anybody wants it.


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> I think I just enjoy the challenge of getting ideas across in public. I'm one of those weird folk that enjoy presenting. I find it a buzz. I suppose doing radio, TV stuff is similar in that I enjoy the challenge. That radio interview was certainly a challenge. If some good can come of it and I don't make a pigs ear of it, then all the better!
> 
> Media tart........maybe just a teeny bit....



Very good performance, by the way. Excellent work! 

But here's a tough question: you're on TV, under the camera lights, yet somehow in the shadow of Adam Rayner - would you dare to be the first person to say: ''Adam... [looking him up and down]...when was the last time you were on a bike?''


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## downfader (2 Feb 2011)

Well done the Good Doctor! You just need a Tardis now.  

I think you handled it very well given the circumstances. I think he's living in cloud cuckoo land, that bloke. He failed to substantiate any of his claims, and then admitted he'd ridden illegally up a pavement. It was he, not the bike that caused the "crime".


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> Well done the Good Doctor! You just need a Tardis now.
> 
> I think you handled it very well given the circumstances. I think he's living in cloud cuckoo land, that bloke. He failed to substantiate any of his claims, and then admitted he'd ridden illegally up a pavement. It was he, not the bike that caused the "crime".



The was an air on inevitability in half his words I think he's jealous of cyclists too


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## Mad at urage (3 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> If there are any media folks out there, why don't you take a risk and allow a proper debate on this, not just a mud sling contest. I think you'll find that people would be interested in it, and it could make a difference.


Meh! You probably know the answer.

It's because there is a rich motoring lobby out there, paid for by the car manufacturers and oil companies. Sounds paranoid but it's not: Each of these has a large and well-funded public relations department whose remit is precisely to counter any opinions which run against increasing car and oil sales. Their tools are sponsorship, influence, advertising and direct payment to media outlets and probably to "motoring journalists". They promote cycle helmet wearing and undoubtedly influence the BMC on this point. This is the organised and focused opposition which campaigners like the CTC face. 

The question of whether the "spokespersons" of cycling lobby groups like CTC are sufficiently trained to have a chance against these professional media manipulators is therefore a pertinent one. Generally (magnatom's excellent performance here notwithstanding) amateurs are just not in the same league - financially certainly not.


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## Jezston (3 Feb 2011)

So where is the bicycle industry in all this? Companies like Specialized and Shimano aren't exactly short of cash, why aren't they helping out?


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## HLaB (3 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> So where is the bicycle industry in all this? Companies like Specialized and Shimano aren't exactly short of cash, why aren't they helping out?



Taiwan :-(


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## flyingtrain (3 Feb 2011)

Hi there

i go from the east end of the meadows, to the royal high school in Barnton, taking in such nice places for cycling as tollcross and haymarket to get on the cycle path at rosburn, which then goes all the way.




goo_mason said:


> Oh, and welcome along to CC, flyingtrain!
> 
> There are a quite a few Edinburgh cyclists here. Which parts of Edinburgh do you cover on your commute?


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## gambatte (3 Feb 2011)

One of the things that strikes me about these conversations is the assumption that responsible cyclists should take responsibility for all the d**ks out there. 
The chavs on BSOs, texting, in the dark, no lights, alternating between riding on the pavement and pulling stunts on the road, through red lights.

In the same way that all responsible drivers are responsible for all the unlicenced, uninsured, drivers speeding round in cars without a valid MOT.

Hold on... they're not are they?

I reckon in all cases you're LIABLE to be pulled over

The issue for me is enforcement of traffic laws, whatever vehicle. Along with the understanding of traffic laws by all users.

Helmet cameras are just a symptom of the current situation.


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## flyingtrain (3 Feb 2011)

fantastic, cheers



goo_mason said:


> I bought a cheap Muvi clone online last year for £15 (plus the cost of an 8Gb miniSD card) which surprised me with the quality it produced; you can see a 10-min clip of part of my commute using it here. They're sold in a number of places online - I got mine from Memorybits.co.uk, but I don't think they sell them any more. **Edit** You can get one from 7dayshop for 10.99 for the camera only, £16.99 for cam & 4Gb card or £19.99 for the cam with an 8Gb card.
> 
> It's not a great cam in low-light situations though; for any decent low-light or night-time footage, you'll have to spend a bit more. Many cyclists on here get their more expensive kit from dogcamsport, I believe.


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## benborp (3 Feb 2011)

I've been stupidly busy at work so haven't seen or heard either the TV or radio pieces. I don't even know what I said in the interview. It's good to see the issues raised being discussed sensibly on cyclechat if not elsewhere. Thanks.


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## Origamist (3 Feb 2011)

benborp said:


> I've been stupidly busy at work so haven't seen or heard either the TV or radio pieces. I don't even know what I said in the interview. It's good to see the issues raised being discussed sensibly on cyclechat if not elsewhere. Thanks.




You did v well, Ben.

Sorry I didn't make sense the other day on the approach to the E&C - oxygen debt had robbed me of the power of speech.


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## Jezston (3 Feb 2011)

benborp said:


> I've been stupidly busy at work so haven't seen or heard either the TV or radio pieces. I don't even know what I said in the interview. It's good to see the issues raised being discussed sensibly on cyclechat if not elsewhere. Thanks.



Like Origamist said, you came across well. But did you HAVE to take you clothes off and do that ... 'dance'? I still don't understand why the BBC didn't cut it and instead chose to show it repeatedly in slow motion.


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## goo_mason (3 Feb 2011)

flyingtrain said:


> Hi there
> 
> i go from the east end of the meadows, to the royal high school in Barnton, taking in such nice places for cycling as tollcross and haymarket to get on the cycle path at rosburn, which then goes all the way.




Part of my route uses the Roseburn Path between Groathill Avenue (down off Telford Road) and Corstorphine Road (just before the Roseburn Bar). You'll spot me in my CycleChat jersey over the summer when the weather's warm enough to wear it again!


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## benborp (3 Feb 2011)

Jezston said:


> Like Origamist said, you came across well. But did you HAVE to take you clothes off and do that ... 'dance'? I still don't understand why the BBC didn't cut it and instead chose to show it repeatedly in slow motion.


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## fimm (3 Feb 2011)

benborp said:


> I've been stupidly busy at work so haven't seen or heard either the TV or radio pieces. I don't even know what I said in the interview. It's good to see the issues raised being discussed sensibly on cyclechat if not elsewhere. Thanks.



I've seen threads on it on 

the CTC forum
the "TriTalk" triathlon forum
and UKC, a rockclimbing forum (it does have a rather large off-topic section)

Yes, I am a forum tart.
Would you be interested in links to the threads?


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## Dan B (3 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299845"]
Let's not forget the local nut-house. 
[/quote]
"Bolshy cyclists", indeed. Those uppity non-tax-paying unwashed freeloaders who don't know their place.


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## magnatom (3 Feb 2011)

Ben, 

You did good and came across very well. You are of course getting the usual scrutiny with regards to your video and how you cycled that day. Perhaps you should adopt a similar signature to the one I have below maybe changing cyclist for road user.


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## downfader (3 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Ben,
> 
> You did good and came across very well. You are of course getting the usual scrutiny with regards to your video and how you cycled that day. Perhaps you should adopt a similar signature to the one I have below maybe changing cyclist for road user.




Oh yes.. the "why didnt he stop" bollocks. Those kinds of commenters must be psychic, as they obviously know what the traffic is like directly behind Ben.


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## subaqua (3 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> Oh yes.. the "why didnt he stop" bollocks. Those kinds of commenters must be psychic, as they obviously know what the traffic is like directly behind Ben.




that highlights the need for a front and rear cam. 

and some split screen footage showing a freaking big lorry behind him


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## thomas (3 Feb 2011)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nje8_PiaH-A&feature=feedu


probably been linked...but good interview Mr Mags!! Some very good points and think comes across very, very well! You definitely come off nicely balanced, unlike the other guy who didn't really seem to actually know what he was on about in all honesty.

Funny that the motorist guy admits that he cycles illegally on pavements/up one way streets. He should probably sort his own act out, before criticising others for the same thing.


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (4 Feb 2011)

Benborp is definitely famous now - he's been 'snobbed.




> By the way, in the feature film, Ben Porter the helmet-cammed commuter will be played by Griffin Dunne


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## dellzeqq (4 Feb 2011)

the answer to the bike registration thing is easy. 'Fine, bring it on, it would cut bike thefts in half, but, you know what.....it's not going to happen. Nobody in government is going to want to run a scheme at a loss'.

Ben's Programme (as it will be known from not until his tyres gather dust) was good, and the comments have been cleaned up.


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## martint235 (4 Feb 2011)

WheelyGoodFun said:


> Benborp is definitely famous now - he's been 'snobbed.



I loved the pictures of Adam Rayner and Zoe Williams with the "Guess which is the cyclist" tagline....


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## fimm (4 Feb 2011)

WheelyGoodFun said:


> Benborp is definitely famous now - he's been 'snobbed.



That's very funny - as are some of the comments (some of them go totally over my head...)


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## Origamist (4 Feb 2011)

Ben makes Bike Snob NYC - result!

What I learnt from the comments is that a white van is sometimes referred to as a "rapemobile" in the US.


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (4 Feb 2011)

Origamist said:


> Ben makes Bike Snob NYC - result!
> 
> What I learnt from the comments is that a white van is sometimes referred to as a "rapemobile" in the US.



And that "black car driver" is the US equivalent of "white van man".


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## noskidsplease (4 Feb 2011)

Great to see that these helmet cameras are in wide use. 

I recently bought one from http://www.promotioncams.com/products/cam-sports-hds-720p-bullet-cam


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## Adasta (4 Feb 2011)

noskidsplease said:


> Great to see that these helmet cameras are in wide use.
> 
> I recently bought one from http://www.promotioncams.com/products/cam-sports-hds-720p-bullet-cam



If you are a spammer, could you hook us up with a discount? Somewhere in the region of 80-90% would do it.


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## gaz (4 Feb 2011)

noskidsplease said:


> Great to see that these helmet cameras are in wide use.
> 
> I recently bought one from http://www.promotioncams.com/products/cam-sports-hds-720p-bullet-cam



Got any video footage taken with this?


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## turnout (4 Feb 2011)

noskidsplease said:


> Great to see that these helmet cameras are in wide use.
> 
> I recently bought one from http://www.promotioncams.com/products/cam-sports-hds-720p-bullet-cam




Is your user name to do with underwear?


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## Mista Preston (4 Feb 2011)

featured in today's CTC Cycleclips.....sorry cant link it


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## benborp (4 Feb 2011)

fimm said:


> I've seen threads on it on
> 
> the CTC forum
> the "TriTalk" triathlon forum
> ...



Yeah, go on. May as well be as informed as possible. Thanks.


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## fimm (5 Feb 2011)

benborp said:


> Yeah, go on. May as well be as informed as possible. Thanks.



CTC


TriTalk


UKClimbing

There you go. 
(Yes, I am "fimm" everywhere...)
(Read to the end of the UKC thread before you decide to join in the rant... it is quite interesting...)


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## Stevie G (6 Feb 2011)

downfader said:


> Quick, someone PM Gaz, he's our poster boy!
> 
> I do hope they dont get all stroppy with accusing us of all RLJing and pavement riding etc.. if they do I'll go to offcom. Should be pretty obvious why people use cameras - just look on youtube ffs.




Bit too early for me. I go past Waterloo station every day - thinking of getting a cheapo helmet cam myself and I think the more cyclists that have them, the better. Mind you, i do have a beef with cyclists that RLJ and if there were more police on bikes - a few spot fines may change behaviour?


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## downfader (6 Feb 2011)

Stevie G said:


> Bit too early for me. I go past Waterloo station every day - thinking of getting a cheapo helmet cam myself and I think the more cyclists that have them, the better. Mind you, i do have a beef with cyclists that RLJ and if there were more police on bikes - a few spot fines may change behaviour?




Welcome to the forums!


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## Norm (6 Feb 2011)

It has even made it onto Top Gear tonight. Hamster said "when idiots like you" to Clarkson - who replied with the road tax comment.


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## Tinuts (6 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> It has even made it onto Top Gear tonight. Hamster said "when idiots like you" to Clarkson - who replied with the road tax comment.




Yes, but if Hamster had actually done his research he would have come up with a suitable retort to Clarkson's "Who pays the road tax, then?" comment rather than just "Weeellll........."


Which reminds me that I once shared a hotel bar with the Top Gear team..........

But that's another story.


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## Mad at urage (7 Feb 2011)

fimm said:


> CTC
> 
> 
> TriTalk
> ...


 I even got a permanent ban from CTC forum for saying the poster named after an off-road motorcycle is a troll (because he's obviously trolling on several threads).


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## magnatom (7 Feb 2011)

I've just had this e-mail from Dogcamsports. 



> Hi,
> 
> We've had a enquiry from BBC television looking to do a piece on RoadHawk cameras and the general state of insurance costs and drivers here in the UK.
> 
> ...



It seems that the BBC is interested in doing a follow up article about the use of cameras in cars. I'm all for it personally.


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## gaz (7 Feb 2011)

all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)

Anyone else seen this? 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIp7_BUSldA


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## magnatom (7 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)
> 
> Anyone else seen this? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nIp7_BUSldA



That is just stupid cycling. All it takes is the driver deciding to edge forward and to the side for any number of reasons and...... I'm sure we can work out the rest. More importantly, what was the point?


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## addictfreak (7 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)
> 
> Anyone else seen this? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nIp7_BUSldA




I agree, but some on here will need to be prepared for some of the shocking cyclists that are on the roads too. 

As cyclists wishing to travel in safety it is right that we should highlight bad driving. But they are a significant number of cyclists who flout the rules, as often seen in your 'silly cyclists' clips. Clearly both sides need to be addressed.

Going down the left of the bus is madness, obviously someone who is not to bothered if they make it home at the end of the day!


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## magnatom (7 Feb 2011)

addictfreak said:


> I agree, but some on here will need to be prepared for some of the shocking cyclists that are on the roads too.
> 
> As cyclists wishing to travel in safety it is right that we should highlight bad driving. But they are a significant number of cyclists who flout the rules, as often seen in your 'silly cyclists' clips. Clearly both sides need to be addressed.



Agreed, but with a caveat..... how many car drivers are put at personal risk by cyclists? Relative risk needs to be taken into account.


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## HLaB (7 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)
> 
> Anyone else seen this? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nIp7_BUSldA



Scary stuff, I fear however the youtube poster doesn't recognise how dangerous it is instead they brag about it!


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## addictfreak (7 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Agreed, but with a caveat..... how many car drivers are put at personal risk by cyclists? Relative risk needs to be taken into account.



Your right of course, in any collision its going to be the cyclists who comes of worse.

But IMHO if you carry out a stupid manourve as a cyclists you put yourself in danger, but you also endanger other road users. If a vehicle takes avoiding action (lets say because of an RLJ er) and collides with something else which may or may not cause injury, then that is clearly the fault of the cyclist.

I totally agree with showing bad driving, but we have to accept that not all is right in the world of bikes. Therefore we need to highlight both sides and strive to improve and educate.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

I am all for 'outing' bad cyclists, after all it's THEIR actions and bad riding that have got up driver's noses and then gets us tarnished with the same brush.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)
> 
> Anyone else seen this? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nIp7_BUSldA



You sort of see where 'some' drivers get their opinion of us from, don't you?


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## Norm (7 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> Agreed, but with a caveat..... how many car drivers are put at personal risk by cyclists? Relative risk needs to be taken into account.


Not only is relative risk not relevant to the issue of all cyclists being tarred by the RLJ / pavement / ninja brush but the risk can be just as big for motorists. 

I have sat beside several who are so intent on safely passing a cyclist that they will involuntarily twitch to the right and / or brake hard if the cyclist deviates from the straight ahead, without thinking about the danger that move might pose to themselves or other road users. 

I had one person say to me about a month ago that she was frightened by cyclist who moved out to go round a particularly bad bit of road surface whilst she was overtaking him. I was incredulous that she could be frightened whilst sitting in her 1.5 tonne safety cage that she could have been frightened by a cyclist but not everyone is confident on the roads.


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Not only is relative risk not relevant to the issue of all cyclists being tarred by the RLJ / pavement / ninja brush but the risk can be just as big for motorists.




can you find an example of a cyclist causing a crash that hurt a motorist?


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (7 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> I am all for 'outing' bad cyclists, after all it's THEIR actions and bad riding that have got up driver's noses and then gets us tarnished with the same brush.



Hmm... I agree to an extent.

But I think the larger problem here is an inability to distinguish between cyclists who are poor, and cyclists in general. Most people don't assume that all motorists are RLJers, speeders, or mobile phones users, but the same rules don't seem to apply to cyclists. Rampant generalization seems to be fair game. 

Witness Adam Rayner's attitude.


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## DrSquirrel (7 Feb 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Yes, but if Hamster had actually done his research he would have come up with a suitable retort to Clarkson's "Who pays the road tax, then?" comment rather than just "Weeellll........."
> 
> 
> Which reminds me that I once shared a hotel bar with the Top Gear team..........
> ...



Maybe he just doesn't know...? I'm not sure if I would be surprised either other way, he might commute on a bike (sometimes) and on a nice one infact, but it doesn't mean he is like any other dangerous filtering red jumping loon (granted I reckon he doesn't for fear of being recognised).

But we all know there would have been a response and it would have had to end somewhere, as does all reasonable arguments, too soon (like the recent radio interviews etc).


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## classic33 (7 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> I've just had this e-mail from Dogcamsports.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the BBC is interested in doing a follow up article about the use of cameras in cars. I'm all for it personally.




I got the same email, however you have my nomination, if you feel like stepping up to the mark. 

Who knows maybe your other project may finally get going!


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

WheelyGoodFun said:


> Hmm... I agree to an extent.
> 
> But I think the larger problem here is an inability to distinguish between cyclists who are poor, and cyclists in general. Most people don't assume that all motorists are RLJers, speeders, or mobile phones users, but the same rules don't seem to apply to cyclists. Rampant generalization seems to be fair game.
> 
> Witness Adam Rayner's attitude.



They are in an ivory tower that is quaking under the strain, and are hitting out at anything remotely non-conformist.

Imagine paying £20-30,000 for some car or other, a couple of hundred in revenue, and another couple of hundred or more in insurance, not to mention £60-80 minimum to fill it up, and some 'cyclist' passes you in a traffic jam?

Said cyclist then proceeds to go to the front of the queue (that you have been sat in for 20 minutes), then the lights go green and the cyclist is away like a ferret up Richard Whiteley's trouser leg. You are just about to go when a car in front stalls, and you have to wait another 2/3 sequences?

And that happens for the whole of your 5-10 mile urban commute......

Every day.......

Every week............

Every year.........

And they DON'T pay road tax...................

Easy to see why we are such a 'target' for a motorist's envy.


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## Bman (7 Feb 2011)

Im not comparing "bad" cyclists to animals, but if a fox/deer/badger ran out into the road, and motorist A took evasive action that caused motorist B to be injured, wouldnt that be the fault of driver A?

Again, I'm also not excusing RLJing. It should be stopped. But shouldnt Driver A drive in such a way that if that were to happen, he can stop safely? If that means stopping dead in the middle of a junction and having RLJing cyclist fly over his bonnet, isn't that what he should do?

Drive at a speed safe for the conditions
Dont assume you path is clear if the lights are green
Watch out for badgers/foxes/deer/cylists/hazards.

My point is, bad cycling is no way near as dangerous as bad driving. It may be helping some of the bad drivers justify their actions. But its not the cause or our priority at the moment.


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## Norm (7 Feb 2011)

turnout said:


> can you find an example of a cyclist causing a crash that hurt a motorist?


Yes, a friend of mine (admittedly a _motor_cyclist but the relative risk is the same) died in an accident in which a lorry driver was hospitalised for a considerable period after driving into a ditch trying to avoid him.


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Yes, a friend of mine (admittedly a _motor_cyclist but the relative risk is the same) died in an accident in which a lorry driver was hospitalised for a considerable period after driving into a ditch trying to avoid him.




that's a no then.


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## Norm (7 Feb 2011)

Eh? A cyclist put a lorry driver in hospital? Wasn't that what you wanted?


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

A motorbike has an engine, PTWs are far more likely to be killed than cyclists.


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## Norm (7 Feb 2011)

Oh, I see, so you are just wilfully ignoring the point that I was making completely. Never mind then.


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## subaqua (7 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Eh? A cyclist put a lorry driver in hospital? Wasn't that what you wanted?



not the right type of cyclist. but no doubt had you provided an example there would have been a " but he needed to be wearing green lycra with a pink stripe etc etc..........................


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Oh, I see, so you are just wilfully ignoring the point that I was making completely. Never mind then.




Dude, a motorbike is not a bicycle. I asked for an example of a bicycle causing a crash. The motorbike story was interesting, but irrelevant.


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## addictfreak (7 Feb 2011)

turnout said:


> can you find an example of a cyclist causing a crash that hurt a motorist?




Does not state who was to blame but:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-10901688


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## downfader (7 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> all the more press about cameras being used by road users is good (Y)
> 
> Anyone else seen this? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nIp7_BUSldA




I've sent him a comment too. I dont think he's a hellraiser, he just made a daft descision that he shouldnt have done. My comment tried to hint that he may have thought it safe, but had the driver just been holding down the brake pedal it could have lurched. This move could also influence less experienced cyclists to do the same with more serious consequence.


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## peelywally (7 Feb 2011)

lets face it your average car driver is in his/her mobile sitting room that they pay through the nose for and they want to vent and who better than the cyclist , cars pay road fund insurance so why dont bikes they say , i`ll tell you it wouldnt be long after the first load of claims went in against car drivers for damaged bikes worth thousands and torn clothing worth hundreds that they would start moaning about that aswell ,




car drivers just need to realise that up until you cut up or nearly hit that cyclist he/she thought you were just like them an ordinary person using the road , its when the aggressive driving attitude comes out backed up with the i pay argument that the car driver becomes an enemy of the cyclist ,

ive seen bad driving and not once could an insurance certificate saved me and it doesnt save drivers from hitting other cars or pedestrians either so please car drivers drop this silly excuse to drive badly or threaten /hit people .


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## ianrauk (7 Feb 2011)

magnatom said:


> That is just stupid cycling. All it takes is the driver deciding to edge forward and to the side for any number of reasons and...... I'm sure we can work out the rest. More importantly, what was the point?



agree 100%. I wouldn't try that maneuver in a million years. I have to share the roads with these buses on a daily basis and they are not fun to be around. Lethal.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

ianrauk said:


> agree 100%. I wouldn't try that maneuver in a million years. I have to share the roads with these buses on a daily basis and they are not fun to be around. Lethal.



Totally non-lethal if you ride safely, with foresight and awareness - and don't have a (frankly motorist-esque) selfish must-get-to-the-front-no-matter-the-consequence attitude.


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## Norm (7 Feb 2011)

turnout said:


> Dude, a motorbike is not a bicycle. I asked for an example of a bicycle causing a crash. The motorbike story was interesting, but irrelevant.


Actually, you asked for a cyclist. Which is what I gave.

And, now that you mention it, your question was irrelevant to my point. 

In response to Magnatom's comment about the relative safety of cars...



Norm said:


> Not only is relative risk not relevant to the issue of all cyclists being tarred by the RLJ / pavement / ninja brush but _the risk can be just as big for motorists_.


I've seen accidents caused by dogs running out where the driver has avoided the animal and run into something coming the other way, I've seen the M4 closed at the M25 junction when 2 people were killed after the car in front swerved to avoid a swan, I've worn the insides of a cat after a bus driver thankfully didn't swerve to avoid it as he overtook me... so, just to make it clear again, _the risk *can be* just as big for motorists._


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

Why the need to get in front at that exact point (referring to the bendy-bus vid)? Why not slot in behind (in full view of the following vehicles) and then set off when the lights go green?

I will filter with the best of them, but that rider did a totally daft trick by going up an (almost non-existant) gap between the bus and the kerb.


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## subaqua (7 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> Why the need to get in front at that exact point (referring to the bendy-bus vid)? Why not slot in behind (in full view of the following vehicles) and then set off when the lights go green?
> 
> I will filter with the best of them, but that rider did a totally daft trick by going up an (almost non-existant) gap between the bus and the kerb.




why did the chicken cross the road? 

nobody knows but the rider and i will wager he didn't have a clue why he did either


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## ianrauk (7 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> Totally non-lethal if you ride safely, with foresight and awareness - and don't have a (frankly motorist-esque) selfish must-get-to-the-front-no-matter-the-consequence attitude.



foresight and awareness are no help when one of these buses decides to overtake you and pull in to the kerb.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Feb 2011)

ianrauk said:


> foresight and awareness are no help when one of these buses decides to overtake you and pull in to the kerb.



A cycle has brakes.......?

Not sure what else to say? 

Yes, an overtake and immediate kerbing is no good, but if you are being squeezed, do you stay in the 'tube' or drop out the back?


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## ianrauk (7 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> A cycle has brakes.......?
> 
> Not sure what else to say?
> 
> Yes, an overtake and immediate kerbing is no good, but if you are being squeezed, do you stay in the 'tube' or drop out the back?



Of course you drop out of the back.
mate, I don't know if you have had any dealings with these buses in a very congested London, but they really do think they rule the road. HGV's are nothing compared to these guy's trust me. I have seen more near missus with these buses then I have HGV's, Taxis etc... as I said they are lethal. 18 meters long, articulated with very poor sight lines.


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## subaqua (7 Feb 2011)

[QUOTE 1299905"]
Indeed, hence why they are being scrapped resprayed and sent to the olympic park for the last year of the construction phase.
[/quote]


corrected the post.

the number of bendy buses has increased on site as it gets closer to peak labour. no segregated routes for cycling . green games my backside


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Actually, you asked for a cyclist. Which is what I gave.



Ah! I see! Forgive me, you clearly believe someone on a motorbike is a cyclist, we'll leave it there.


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## subaqua (7 Feb 2011)

turnout said:


> Ah! I see! Forgive me, you clearly believe someone on a motorbike is a cyclist, we'll leave it there.




by definition they are the same, 

from OED

Cycle 5. a bicycle or a motorcycle.

Cyclist n. a person who rides a cycle. 

want any more


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Guffaw!

So Barry Sheen was a famous cyclist?


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## Dan B (7 Feb 2011)

subaqua said:


> by definition they are the same,
> 
> from OED
> 
> ...




Try telling the police that when they stop you for riding a motorbike on a shared use path. 

The OED is descriptive, not prescriptive. The Law, not so much ...


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (7 Feb 2011)

subaqua said:


> by definition they are the same,
> 
> from OED
> 
> ...



In my OED, "cycle" is defined as a bicycle or a tricycle, and a cyclist as "a person who rides a bicycle".

What edition are you using?


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## turnout (7 Feb 2011)

Stop digging subaqua, or you'll become subterra.


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## subaqua (7 Feb 2011)

turnout said:


> Stop digging subaqua, or you'll become subterra.




oh wow clever 


and not arguing the legalities.


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## classic33 (7 Feb 2011)

WheelyGoodFun said:


> In my OED, "cycle" is defined as a bicycle or a tricycle, and a cyclist as "a person who rides a bicycle".
> 
> What edition are you using?



Here, I cycle on four wheels. Does this mean I'm not a cyclist. I've also used one & six wheels, how does that work out?


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (7 Feb 2011)

classic33 said:


> Here, I cycle on four wheels. Does this mean I'm not a cyclist. I've also used one & six wheels, how does that work out?



Perhaps you could write to the OED, rather than taking this issue up with me.


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## gaz (7 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> Totally non-lethal if you ride safely, with foresight and awareness - and don't have a (frankly motorist-esque) selfish must-get-to-the-front-no-matter-the-consequence attitude.




View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVVoTin6kfI


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2lrECCgyGw


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku9sBmuRe0k


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jEvmRwE9Yc


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jEvmRwE9Yc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbOnseZ4jUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbOnseZ4jUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI8Pon_bUaM

Enough examples? each time i'm forced to take action to avoid being hit by a bus. All when they overtake.


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## downfader (8 Feb 2011)

Back to the OP:

The RAC forum, I see tonight, has had a discussion on us. I've read stuff on there before thats been pretty good, a couple of advanced drivers iirc.

http://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=12342

I have left a (long) reply on page 4, there were a lot of points to address. I hope the mods and guys who were mentioned on the Beeb peice mind, but I've told them about here. I know the Beeb already mentioned here.


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## turnout (8 Feb 2011)

Excellent stuff downfader!


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## ComedyPilot (8 Feb 2011)

gaz said:


> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=EVVoTin6kfI
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=X2lrECCgyGw
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ku9sBmuRe0k
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_jEvmRwE9Yc
> ...



Gaz, I was not saying they drive like angels, but that the idiot riding up the inside could have avoided doing that.

Only looked at 1 vid, and as soon as they pull the dangerous overtake, you avoided trouble by braking, which sort of is my point. Irrespective of other people's bad driving, we also have a responsibility for ourselves.


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## Mad at urage (8 Feb 2011)

Norm said:


> Not only is relative risk not relevant to the issue of all cyclists being tarred by the RLJ / pavement / ninja brush but the risk can be just as big for motorists.
> 
> I have sat beside several who are so intent on safely passing a cyclist that they will involuntarily twitch to the right and / or brake hard if the cyclist deviates from the straight ahead, without thinking about the danger that move might pose to themselves or other road users.
> 
> I had one person say to me about a month ago that she was frightened by cyclist who moved out to go round a particularly bad bit of road surface whilst she was overtaking him. I was incredulous that she could be frightened whilst sitting in her 1.5 tonne safety cage that she could have been frightened by a cyclist but not everyone is confident on the roads.


She is (and those you've sat with are) therefore a bad driver(s). If she were driving correctly, looking for hazards in the road ("a particularly bad bit of road surface" for example) and giving the cyclist "at least as much room as ... for a car", she'd be confident that she could overtake safely _or_ she would know that she had to wait behind. Of course most car drivers simply don't look for changing road conditions and so are caught out when the cyclist is unable to maintain a straight line.


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## gaz (8 Feb 2011)

ComedyPilot said:


> Gaz, I was not saying they drive like angels, but that the idiot riding up the inside could have avoided doing that.
> 
> Only looked at 1 vid, and as soon as they pull the dangerous overtake, you avoided trouble by braking, which sort of is my point. Irrespective of other people's bad driving, we also have a responsibility for ourselves.



They are all very similar, in every case i have to brake or change direction to avoid being hit by a bus. I think that backs up Ian's comment


ianrauk said:


> foresight and awareness are no help when one of these buses decides to overtake you and pull in to the kerb.



Which you then replied



ComedyPilot said:


> A cycle has brakes.......?
> 
> Not sure what else to say?
> 
> Yes, an overtake and immediate kerbing is no good, but if you are being squeezed, do you stay in the 'tube' or drop out the back?



Your statment can be applied to any action on the road to any road user.


Obviously in relation to the video i orignally posted, the cyclist wasn't the smartest and put him self in danger, but my point is busses present a danger to us, even if we cycle perfectly safely. And it is up to us to often counter act their bad driving to save our lives. We shouldn't have to do that.


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## downfader (12 Feb 2011)

Quite a balanced blog post here:

http://blog.anyvan.com/news/cyclists-strike-back-with-hidden-cameras/


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