# Brooks saddles restoring tips?



## Kins (22 Jan 2013)

Any of you tried restoring an old brooks?

I took a punt for a tenner on an old late 40s early 50s B15 road saddle. As some of you might have gathered by now, I am a fiddler. TBH got it mainly to see how it went rather than any hope that it would turn out ok.

But so far so good. Spoke to my sister who has been a horsewoman as a job for 30+ years and asked what she did with old dried out tack and what she said has worked so far.

Worried about two things really.

1. the rusty rivets in the leather, any way to treat these without ruining the leather surrounding them?
2. Slight ridge as per the pic that will hopefully smooth out once on the bike and sat on (which isn't ready yet! ) or won't it?

Also what other remedial treatments do you recommend or hints and tips?


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## biggs682 (22 Jan 2013)

new rivets can be got from Brooks i think . i would suggest getting some proofide and a set about treating it with it . in the past i have used baby wipes to rub away some of the grime and dirt before treating them to try and get original shade back .


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## tyred (22 Jan 2013)

Buy some saddle soap to clean and soften the leather. Should be available from any outdoors shops or anywhere else that sells horsey stuff.

A traditional tallow based shaving soap will work as well.


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## Kins (22 Jan 2013)

I have saddle oil, saddle soap and saddle polish courtesy of my sister. The saddle is soft now including the protective leather piece on the underside. But as the leather has been in that position on the ridge for many years (no idea how long as its a shed find), it is pliable but doesn't stay in position once flattened if that makes sense.

Cheers Biggs, didnt think about replacing them and Brooks website seems pretty cheap.


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## Manonabike (22 Jan 2013)

That saddle doesn't look like a B15 AKA Swallow. Probably a B17.

As somebody mention already you can buy the rivets from brooks, in fact you can buy the frame too. They are not cheap.

This place do spare parts for Brooks saddle.

You said the leather is soft..... the leather is not meant to be soft. Ask anyone with a brooks saddle if the leather is soft and they will tell you that it is hard, specially the Brooks Pro.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (22 Jan 2013)

If the leather is soft, it'll just keep on stretching and stretching until you run out of thread on the tensioner. I had a brooks pro and it definitely was not soft.


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## fossala (22 Jan 2013)

Yeah, I ride on a brooks team pro ti. 100% not soft.


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## thegravestoneman (22 Jan 2013)

I always use neatsfoot oil, smells a bit stains a bit but does the job. It is also good for breaking in a new pair of Doc Martins. The rivets will polish up with use


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## Kins (22 Jan 2013)

Manonabike said:


> That saddle doesn't look like a B15 AKA Swallow. Probably a B17.
> 
> As somebody mention already you can buy the rivets from brooks, in fact you can buy the frame too. They are not cheap.
> 
> ...


 
It definitely is a Brooks B15 as its stamped on both sides of the saddle and when I sent a pic to Brooks this morning they have replied with spare parts compatible for a B15.

When I said soft, I meant in comparison to leather that has been stuck in a shed for 30 years without any maintenance. Could pretty much break a brick on it when it first arrived! 

Will stick new rivets on order anyway as they aren't that expensive at £1 or £1.25 each. Cheers for the link Manonabike. Lovely fast email from Brooks, most impressed.


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## Manonabike (22 Jan 2013)

Kins said:


> It definitely is a Brooks B15 as its stamped on both sides of the saddle and when I sent a pic to Brooks this morning they have replied with spare parts compatible for a B15.
> 
> When I said soft, I meant in comparison to leather that has been stuck in a shed for 30 years without any maintenance. Could pretty much break a brick on it when it first arrived!
> 
> Will stick new rivets on order anyway as they aren't that expensive at £1 or £1.25 each. Cheers for the link Manonabike. Lovely fast email from Brooks, most impressed.


 
Interesting.... I have 3 modern B15 and none has the holes in the middle, having said that, the B17 has them.  Good to learn that though.

Yes, I have heard that Brooks customer service is spot on. Makes it very attractive for future business.....


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## fossala (22 Jan 2013)

Manonabike said:


> Interesting.... I have 3 modern B15 and none has the holes in the middle, having said that, the B17 has them.  Good to learn that though.


My guess would be they are "aftermarket" holes. They aren't straight and don't look as clean as holes that are on other brooks saddles. Could just be the age though.


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## Kins (22 Jan 2013)

The old Brooks B15 are different than modern ones, There are a few different models but general the same outlines. Holes are standard, they dont look straight because of the ridge as per my first post.

Stick _Brooks B15 vintage_ into google images and you'll see em all. Did confuse me for a second without the vintage as the modern ones do look significantly different.


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## dellzeqq (22 Jan 2013)

1. Dig hole
2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
4. Buy a proper saddle


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## biggs682 (23 Jan 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 1. Dig hole
> 2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
> 3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
> 4. Buy a proper saddle


 harsh , many a millon miles have been done by loads of cyclist over the years on a Brooks


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## thegravestoneman (23 Jan 2013)

How many people want or look for an old plastic or composite saddle? not many. People are always coming back to Brooks if they were no good there would be no Brooks to come back to. Each to their own, I like a bit of well oiled cow under my backside.


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## Teuchter (23 Jan 2013)

Agreed. I bought a (new) Brooks B17 five years ago and just couldn't get on with it even after well over 1000 miles of attempted breaking in. It wasn't bad... just not as good as the mythology had led me to expect.

I've recently come back to it, moving it from an occasional bike to my main daily bike to replace an old San Marco Rolls that was on there and am now, somehow loving it, finding it much better than both the San Marco it replaced and the Charge Spoons that are on two of my other bikes.

Interested to see the end result of this restoration. The price of a new Brooks would be a significant proportion of the total value of some of my old bikes that I would like to fit one to so older ones may have to be an option. I would worry that my ar$e wasn't the same shape as the previous owner's though!


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## Davidc (23 Jan 2013)

I had a Brooks B15 on my Holdsworth Cyclone 1966 model. it had holes in it and was as wide as that one. I think the design changed about then. A mate (with more money) bought a Holdsworth Mistral 1968 model with a B15 that was narrower, but I can't remember about holes. Brooks customer service might be able to give some background on the design history, they're helpful and proud of their product.

After that bike was stolen I bought another Brooks saddle, a B17, and have used those ever since rather than the B15. I'd never choose anything else for rides over an hour long.

I've never worn one out, I had one nicked, one chewed up by mice, one sold with its bike, and one currently in use. Apart from when new they've all had an annual dose of proofide and been well polished by my backside, and sorry, I've never had to do a restoration so can't pass on any tips.

If that saddle restores it should be good for another 50 years of cycling comfort.



Teuchter said:


> .... I would worry that my ar$e wasn't the same shape as the previous owner's though!


 
When I sold the B17 with its bike I said that to the man buying it (a work colleague). He still wanted it, and told me about a month later that it was fine and had become comfortable. His previous one was found by Suffolk police in the river Gipping about 6 months later, together with its bike, neither were restorable.


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## taximan (24 Jan 2013)

I bought a Sun Snipe fitted with a Brooks saddle way back in 1962 and we did many of thousands miles together. In about 1970 the bike was consigned to the rafters in the garage and stayed there until 2010. In the December of that year I had a senior moment and bought a BSO gaspipe special on the internet and hit the roads again after 40 years and renewed my acquaintance with the joys of cycling.After the first outing I removed the saddle that came with the bike and consigned it to the dustbin, I then retrieved my old saddle and fitted it to my BSO. (I imagine this probably doubled the value of the bike) In all that time I have never had to make any adjustment to the tension of the saddle and never treated it with anything. It is tatty now but still very comfortable.


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## tyred (24 Jan 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 1. Dig hole
> 2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
> 3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
> 4. Buy a proper saddle


 
Heathen. 

Pass the hammer and the wooden stake.


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## Manonabike (24 Jan 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 1. Dig hole
> 2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
> 3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
> 4. Buy a proper saddle


 
Where is the icon to dislike a post?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (24 Jan 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 1. Dig hole
> 2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
> 3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
> 4. Buy a proper saddle


Troll...


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## Bill Soens (24 Jan 2013)

Hello each and all. Interesting reading all the above. From 1957 onwards in my business "Eddie Soens Cycles", Liverpool, I "treated" hundreds of new, very hard Brooks saddles mainly because riding on a new one had a tendency to have untold effects on one's manhood ! These were almost all Brooks B17 "narrow". The B15 range was the lower grade leather.

I used neatsfoot oil - as indicated by someone above - and I also warmed the leather in an oven. Be VERY, VERY, VERY careful in not getting it too hot, otherwise you can then bin it. Much easier to work with warm leather. I would drill out the small-headed rivets and replace with copper ones at least a half inch across and file these down to be flush with the leather. In addition I would cut the leather flush with the frame at the rear and also cut off the saddle bag loops. Finally I would cut off the nose a little, ultimately creating a saddle to race on. The saddle in the photo is a B15 "Standard" which is quite wide. You can alter this by crushing in the side frame a little but putting the inner wire and the side frame in a vice, each side. DON'T open the vice wide and put the whole saddle in; in this way you will reduce the width of the saddle pin frame. 

Frankly, there's no reason for doing any of this in view of the excellent range of saddleware available nowadays, other than the simple satisfaction of achieving something.

Bill


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## compo (24 Jan 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 1. Dig hole
> 2. Put Brooks saddle in hole
> 3. Shovel earth back over saddle and sprinkle garlic and holy water over hole
> 4. Buy a proper saddle


 
Thanks for the giggle!
I still like my Brooks though


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## Davidc (24 Jan 2013)

Bill Soens said:


> Hello each and all. Interesting reading all the above. From 1957 onwards in my business "Eddie Soens Cycles", Liverpool, I "treated" hundreds of new, very hard Brooks saddles mainly because riding on a new one had a tendency to have untold effects on one's manhood ! These were almost all Brooks B17 "narrow". The B15 range was the lower grade leather.
> 
> I used neatsfoot oil - as indicated by someone above - and I also warmed the leather in an oven. Be VERY, VERY, VERY careful in not getting it too hot, otherwise you can then bin it. Much easier to work with warm leather. I would drill out the small-headed rivets and replace with copper ones at least a half inch across and file these down to be flush with the leather. In addition I would cut the leather flush with the frame at the rear and also cut off the saddle bag loops. Finally I would cut off the nose a little, ultimately creating a saddle to race on. The saddle in the photo is a B15 "Standard" which is quite wide. You can alter this by crushing in the side frame a little but putting the inner wire and the side frame in a vice, each side. DON'T open the vice wide and put the whole saddle in; in this way you will reduce the width of the saddle pin frame.
> 
> ...


So, going back into the mists of time (1968) what was the difference between my mates B15 on his Mistral (1968 model) and the one on my Cyclone (1966 model)? Both from Holdsworth with the saddles as original equipment and advertised as B15s.


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## Bill Soens (25 Jan 2013)

Sorry buy 1968 and 1966 are not "in the mists of time" for me - they are fairly recent; so I cannot answer your question on "modern" stuff.
Bill


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## Bill Soens (25 Jan 2013)

Me again; above second word should be "but" and not "buy". Old eyes and fingers. Bill


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## Kins (25 Jan 2013)

You could have just edited the post and no-one would have know about your fat fingers!  

Saddle is looking loads better after some treatment with Carrs (very smelly) leather oil, drying it out abit and then adding some leather conditioner/polish/waterproofer.

I am sure once it has an ass on it it will shine up more. Still undecided as to whether to change the rivets. Time will tell.


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## ColinJ (25 Jan 2013)

Manonabike said:


> Where is the icon to dislike a post?


It's right next to the _icon_ for 'liking'!


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## threefingerjoe (9 Apr 2013)

I'm interested in hearing more about "I would drill out the small-headed rivets and replace with copper ones at least a half inch across and file these down to be flush with the leather." I have a B-67 with the small steel rivets, which protrude above the surface of the saddle, and was thinking about trying to replace them with larger copper rivets which could be hammered down flatter, so that they would be more flush with the leather. How hard is this to do? I presume that the rivets can be drilled from the bottom side, so as to be removed without damaging the leather? Any advise?


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## Bill Soens (9 Apr 2013)

Not familiar with the B67 and small steel rivets. I used to drill the old rivets out from the upper side ,taking great care not to wander on to the leather and would do one at a time time. i.e. drill one out and replace that with a half inch copper one, then do a second one and so on. In that way you keep the saddle shape. But as I point out I don't know the B67 so you have to make that choice yourself. Bill


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## threefingerjoe (10 Apr 2013)

Thanks, Bill. The B67 is a wide, sprung saddle for a more upright riding position. I have it on a hybrid. I'll just have to see what kind of rivets are available. It looks like it could be hard to get to the underside of the front 3 rivets (on the horn) to install the new ones.


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## Bill Soens (10 Apr 2013)

Hi.. Don't do the front ones. Not necessary Cheers. Bill.


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## raleighnut (23 Jul 2013)

I think its true that Selle (San Marco) now own Brooks.
I own 5 Brooks (all in use) a B5N,B17S, B17N, Swift and a 2005 Swallow Limited Edition (with certificate)
For a laugh look on Brooks website at the price of a 2007 Swallow LE.


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## Spokesmann (24 Jul 2013)

Brooks Brooks Brooks. Period.


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## Tony Smith (25 Jul 2013)

If it softens too much, punch some holes and lace it.


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## Sterba (28 Jul 2013)

Brooks saddles are made of Marmite. You either love them or hate them.. When I was a boy my friend Les would ride one day and night for three years and then send it back to Brooks saying it had only lasted three years and they would apologise and send him a new one. These days I get on quite well with Terry leather-covered saddles with some gel under them, but then I am not a purist.


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## Gravity Aided (7 Aug 2013)

I'm not a purist, and I've had Brooks saddles , but I still like my old Avocets better. Those saddles are finer than a frogs hair.


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## Spoked Wheels (26 Mar 2014)

There are lots of things to be said about brooks saddles but one thing you cannot say about plastics saddles is that brooks saddles can mend themselves. One of the brooks saddles in the family used to have a fair bit of damage after contact with the floor by accident, standard TLC and a few years later you can hardly tell there was damage there. Also, I borrowed a Swallow saddle from my brother and while walking under some trees a broken branch made a shallow cut along the saddle, again, standard TLC and 18 months later the damaged disappeared.


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## sazzaa (26 Mar 2014)

Do many females use Brooks saddles? I thought about buying one but then figured it would probably be less comfortable than a female-specific one with a cutout...


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## raleighnut (26 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Do many females use Brooks saddles? I thought about buying one but then figured it would probably be less comfortable than a female-specific one with a cutout...


Brooks do many female specific saddles but a lot have springs. They do however make a female specific version of the B17 and some of the other more "sporty" models. There are also models with a cut out notably the new Cambium and the B17 Imperial. Info on their website.


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## sazzaa (26 Mar 2014)

raleighnut said:


> Brooks do many female specific saddles but a lot have springs. They do however make a female specific version of the B17 and some of the other more "sporty" models. There are also models with a cut out notably the new Cambium and the B17 Imperial. Info on their website.


 
I'll go have a look, thanks.


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## rhm (27 Mar 2014)

I restore old leather saddles. That is, I form new leather tops and rivet them on. So my solution to ruined leather is: new leather! I realize that's not what we're talking about here. 

But I've had a lot of leather saddles where the leather has reached the end of its useful life, and in my experience there's nothing you can do to rejuvenate it. As it ages, it loses its ability to stretch, and once this is lost, it is prone to cracking and tearing. I've had a saddle rip right in half while I was riding. So while Proofide, wax, neatsfoot oil, etc all have their place in saddle maintenance, their purpose is to preserve the leather, to protect it from water, and in general to slow its deterioration. Too much will make a saddle too soft, allowing the leather to stretch permanently, and then there's really nothing you can do to unstretch it. 

On the other hand if you don't treat your saddle and leave it out in the rain repeatedly, the leather will shrink and harden, and then there's nothing you can do to soften it up again. You can soak it in water and soften it temporarily, and reshape it while its wet; but when it dries, it will be hard again. You can rub Proofide and neatsfoot oil into it and soften it up a bit, but you cannot undo whatever damage has been done. If the leather has become brittle, it will remain brittle. In short, whatever you do to your saddle, you can change the rate at which it ages, but you can't make it young again.


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## Gravity Aided (28 Mar 2014)

Beautiful work you do, rhm. Saw it on some other forum.


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