# My accident...



## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

19th Dec 2012 - 5.15pm

Cycling up Townsend Street in SE1 (reflective jacket on, steady rear white light & red rear light plus flashing white & red helmet lights plus flashing red light on my backpack). Driver coming out of Crosslet Street failed to stop at the junction and hits me side on.


View: http://youtu.be/Gz7smbIRkbo


I know people slate Bromptons but I'm very thankful I did in this situation - as I don't have a crossbar, I was able to step out of the bike on impact. Otherwise, I would have been on the floor and potentially hurt myself pretty badly.

Minor damage to my bike which I've kind of fixed but will get the cycle to double-check. Also, sustained a superficial injury to my left shin.

The driver did stop, it was all very calm and we swapped details however he didnt apologise once and said he didn't see me and I asked what more can I do than have 2 sets of lights on the front and back (plus I was going at a fairly leisurely place). The driver behind him also piped up saying he didnt see me then he drove away.

Tempted to report it to the police for their stats...


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## Hip Priest (19 Dec 2012)

Glad you're relatively unscathed mate. 

When they say "I didn't see you" they mean "I didn't look properly". Sheer complacency, and it's poor form that he didn't apologise.


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## Miquel In De Rain (19 Dec 2012)

Wow,two drivers didn't see you.I don't know how I've got away with wearing hi-viz for so long.


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## ianrauk (19 Dec 2012)

Driver just wasn't looking - simple.


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## Supersuperleeds (19 Dec 2012)

I'd report it, next time the cyclist might not be so lucky


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## Sandra6 (19 Dec 2012)

Definitely report it. 
Glad you weren't more badly injured.


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## gaz (19 Dec 2012)

You have to report this, why else use a camera?
Read this post on cycle camera tv. Either report it to Roadsafe (they may say do the second) or report it at your local station by filling out form 207 (on the website) and burn the whole video you have on a DVD.

If you need any help or have any questions about the reporting process. Feel free to ask me, i've got plenty of experience with the police in London.

I had a similar incident 2 years ago and the driver was fined and received points on his license for careless driving.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

Thanks guys, I'm meant to go to the police station in person, really not sure there's any point. I've no intention of pressing charges and I doubt it'll cost very much to get my bike looked at and fixed if necessary.

But then, without reporting, it's one less stat for the books...

This is my first (hopefully, last) collision since I started riding in February and it's left me a bit shaken


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## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> You have to report this, why else use a camera?
> Read this post on cycle camera tv. Either report it to Roadsafe (they may say do the second) or report it at your local station by filling out form 207 (on the website) and burn the whole video you have on a DVD.
> 
> If you need any help or have any questions about the reporting process. Feel free to ask me, i've got plenty of experience with the police in London.
> ...


 
Thanks Gaz, that does look quite similar!

I'm doubting myself in terms of visibility, my jacket is a black Altura cycling jacket so I guess only shines up with direct light on to it - I'm going to wear a yellow hi-viz on top in future... but I did have the front steady bike light and front flashing cateye on my helmet, he just didn't keep looking to check all was clear... He did say that it's a badly lit area which kind of says to me 'be more careful!'.


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## Matthew_T (19 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> Thanks guys, I'm meant to go to the police station in person, really not sure there's any point. I've no intention of pressing charges and I doubt it'll cost very much to get my bike looked at and fixed if necessary.
> 
> But then, without reporting, it's one less stat for the books...
> 
> This is my first (hopefully, last) collision since I started riding in February and it's left me a bit shaken


A collision always leaves you shaken. Whether it is at 30mph or 3mph.

I was rear ended in stop start traffic in the summer and just for sheer practice and because I didnt know if there were any damages, I took the guys details (he was apologetic and said he was concentrating on a car behind him turning (which I knew)). I checked the bike when I got home and didnt do anything further. There was no point reporting it to the police because what could they do? No damage and I was happy with the drivers attitude.

Certain things are worth reporting though. If there is damage, I wouldnt report it to the police, I would just go to the driver's insurance company. If the driver refuses to give details or drives off, it is one for the police.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

Looking back at the vid, he did quickly say 'sorry bout that' as he stepped out of his car...


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## atomboy (19 Dec 2012)

Ouch, it hurt. Glad you are lucky. Report or not, but I hope, the driver learnt about it, and he will be more careful.


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## Pat "5mph" (19 Dec 2012)

Scary,
Yes, let's hope the driver will look properly next time.
Take care!


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## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

Just popped over to Southwark Police Station and was given an Road Traffic Collision/Accident - Self Reporting Scheme form, so I'll fill it out and hand it in tomorrow I guess...


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## HLaB (19 Dec 2012)

Glad you side stepped out of trouble, it could have been very nasty  I hate passing parked cars etc you are out of muppets view for that second and that can be the only time they look


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## atomboy (19 Dec 2012)

HLaB said:


> Glad you side stepped out of trouble, it could have been very nasty  I hate passing parked cars etc you are out of muppets view for that second and that can be the only time they look


I hate the parked cars too, that's why I search a fixable lamp to my helmet (next to the camera). But I read, Davidsw8 had a lamp on his helmet, and the result is bad... :/


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## gaz (19 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> Just popped over to Southwark Police Station and was given an Road Traffic Collision/Accident - Self Reporting Scheme form, so I'll fill it out and hand it in tomorrow I guess...


Don't forget to burn a copy of the video onto DVD and include that when you hand the form in. Speeds the process up.


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## Matthew_T (19 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> Just popped over to Southwark Police Station and was given an Road Traffic Collision/Accident - Self Reporting Scheme form, so I'll fill it out and hand it in tomorrow I guess...


Take a look at this thread: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/statement-template.53277/

I filled it out when I was reporting an incident a few months ago. When the police officer who was dealing with me read it, she asked if I worked in the police or did any training scheme as my statement was well written and professional. I just explained that I found a template online (didnt say where).


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## HLaB (19 Dec 2012)

atomboy said:


> I hate the parked cars too, that's why I search a fixable lamp to my helmet (next to the camera). But I read, Davidsw8 had a lamp on his helmet, and the result is bad... :/


There was a good piece somebody posted the other week basically your brain smooths out images from your eyes and in doing so it may blank out small areas, explaining (but certainly not excusing SMIDSY). Unfortunately you could be dressed up like a Christmas Tree (apt at this time of year) with as many bright lights positioned on your helmet, bars etc but something which increases your chance of being in the blanked out zone like a parked car can be disastrous


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## CopperCyclist (19 Dec 2012)

I think you were unlucky in that you were possibly hidden behind the parked car, and then behind his A-pillar. It can sometimes be worth altering your speed if the a-pillar is blocking the drivers head from your perspective. 

That said, regardless of all of that, if he's looking properly he will see you, and the fault is entirely his. "Things that you can do that might prevent" should never be confused as "Things that you must do or be at fault".


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## paulw1969 (19 Dec 2012)

Glad you are OK.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> Don't forget to burn a copy of the video onto DVD and include that when you hand the form in. Speeds the process up.


 
Thanks Gaz, I'll do that at work tomorrow and hand the form in on my way home.

I might not be cycling now until the New Year which is maybe a bit too long but I want my bike to be looked over properly before I ride it again.


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## Davidsw8 (20 Dec 2012)

I'm in a quandry about reporting this to the police because the guy is willing to reimburse me the cost of any repairs (which I don't think will be much) without involving his insurance company.

I'm taking my bike for a service next Thursday so will be able to give him the receipt then.

I've been told that if I report this to the police, they will have to investigate it even if I'm only reporting it so it's recorded statistically - I think there are a LOT of unreported cycle accidents which skew popular opinion on what really happens out there. As it stands, I don't want the guy to get into trouble/be fined/have points on his licence as he's been very reasonable so far and doesn't appear to be an irresponsible boy racer - he just made a mistake... I just don't want to be out of pocket for a mistake HE made.

Gah! I hate having a conscience sometimes!!


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## Drago (20 Dec 2012)

Holy Vaz, I'd be mortified if I'd done that to another road user. You've have to punch me to stop me apologising.


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## cloggsy (20 Dec 2012)

Driver driving with his head up his own @r5e?

Shocking!


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## aces_up1504 (20 Dec 2012)

Why can we not just accept sometimes people make mistakes? I am with you Davidsw8

If the driver of the car is happy to pay for repairs of the bike and your not hurt. I dont see the need to take it any further.

On the note on the driver not applogising. Dont forget that people are told never to say sorry or accept guilt after a collision, even if it obvious they were at fault. Its not for you or them to place blame, Its a matter for the insurance company or the police if the accident is serious enough.


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## Buddfox (20 Dec 2012)

aces_up1504 said:


> Why can we not just accept sometimes people make mistakes? I am with you Davidsw8
> 
> If the driver of the car is happy to pay for repairs of the bike and your not hurt. I dont see the need to take it any further.
> 
> On the note on the driver not applogising. Dont forget that people are told never to say sorry or accept guilt after a collision, even if it obvious they were at fault. Its not for you or them to place blame, Its a matter for the insurance company or the police if the accident is serious enough.


 
Exactly... so report it to the Police and let them handle it. You appear to be contradicting yourself?


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## fossyant (20 Dec 2012)

The police won't follow it up as no-one was injured, but it goes down on statistics, and if the driver has been crasing into more folk, they would have a word.

Glad it wasn't worse as you could have easily landed on the floor.


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## veloevol (20 Dec 2012)

fossyant said:


> The police won't follow it up as no-one was injured, but it goes down on statistics, and if the driver has been crasing into more folk, they would have a word.
> 
> Glad it wasn't worse as you could have easily landed on the floor.




A driver education course would benefit this driver.


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## gaz (20 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> I'm in a quandry about reporting this to the police because the guy is willing to reimburse me the cost of any repairs (which I don't think will be much) without involving his insurance company.
> 
> I'm taking my bike for a service next Thursday so will be able to give him the receipt then.
> 
> ...


Let me contact a traffic police officer about this and i'll let you know what they say.


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## Davidsw8 (20 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> Let me contact a traffic police officer about this and i'll let you know what they say.


 
Thanks Gaz, I'm leaving work at 4.30 and can go via Saville row nick to drop off my form and dvd... if I decide to report.


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## Lance Jack (20 Dec 2012)

My Father used to drive an ambulance. Big, white (at that time) with blue lights on and a siren. Twice cars pulled out of side roads into him, if that can happen what chance do the rest of us have? They say they didn't see you? Its easier to say that than admit they are poor drivers.
Glad you ok.


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## Herzog (20 Dec 2012)

The incident should be recorded; that's the only way we'll ever get a true idea of how many bike-car RTAs are actually occurring.


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## gaz (21 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> Thanks Gaz, I'm leaving work at 4.30 and can go via Saville row nick to drop off my form and dvd... if I decide to report.


So I spoke to my contact and he suggests that you report it at the police station as an accident (no need for video footage etc..) and say that you don't want to take further action. That way nothing further happens but it is on record for stats and if the driver fails to pay up, you can then go to the police and say you want his insurance details to contact his insurance company for damages.


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## veloevol (21 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> So I spoke to my contact and he suggests that you report it at the police station as an accident (no need for video footage etc..) and say that you don't want to take further action. That way nothing further happens but it is on record for stats and if the driver fails to pay up, you can then go to the police and say you want his insurance details to contact his insurance company for damages.




I had a small scrape with someone on my motorbike and it was all smiles and 'off the insurance books' agreement until a month later I got a letter from my insurance company. He maybe sorry but he's not your best mate and he may change his mind and blank you. Following Gaz's advice protects yourself and records the accident.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> So I spoke to my contact and he suggests that you report it at the police station as an accident (no need for video footage etc..) and say that you don't want to take further action. That way nothing further happens but it is on record for stats and if the driver fails to pay up, you can then go to the police and say you want his insurance details to contact his insurance company for damages.


 
I took the form over to Saville Row nick last night on my way home, he didn't want the DVD anyway as he said it would just get lost and the follow-up team will ask me to supply it if necessary (I've put on the form that I have it available). I said I didn't want to press charges but wanted them to register it as a statistic and for it to be registered as an incident - he nodded but it wasn't noted down, I guess that comes in the follow-up.

Anyway, it's reported and I feel I've done the right thing - he might be a nice guy but he made a mistake that could have been MUCH worse (for me) and if there are no consequences, people continue to think they can do anything and get away with it...


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## Scruffmonster (21 Dec 2012)

Call the guy up. Tell him your reasons for reporting it as an accident, and talk to him like a human being. If he shows genuine contrition and pays for your repairs, what possible sense is there in taking it further. Talk to him about how you experienced it, send him the footage (I'm sure it would shock him seeing it through your eyes), and tell him to be more careful.

We're all just trying to get along in this world. You'd do far better to make a connection and educate that one person, so he hopefully never makes a mistake again, than kid yourself that reporting it and following up will serve a greater good. It won't. If he ended up with points on his license, increased insurance costs, I very much doubt he's going to get a better world view of cyclists.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

Hi Scruff

I totally understand what you're saying and I was going over this again and again for most of yesterday. I have informed the guy that I intended to report this and his only concern was that we didn't involve his insurance company.

In the end, I decided to hand the report in because:

a) If we don't report these incidents, official statistics give a false impression of safety for cyclists on the roads. In London especially, it's becoming very dangerous and that needs to be made a lot more obvious.

b) I'm not getting my bike serviced until next Thursday, if there's a problem with him paying me for any repairs and I end up reporting him anyway then the police are going to ask me why I waited over a week to report it, it's going to lessen any potential claim I have to make and it'll make me look unreliable and vindictive.

I have and will continue to stress to the police that I don't want further action taken on this.


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## Scruffmonster (21 Dec 2012)

Good shout. Be sure to make the guy aware of the bigger issues. Adding to numbers is all well and good, and needful, just be sure to pick your moral line and stick with it.

I completely understand that you've got to protect your own interests, you were wronged, of that there is no question.

If you wear a camera, and have a motorists details that hit you, you're in a unique position to educate. Send him the video, ask if he has any thoughts on your behaviour. Worst case is he tells you he has nothing to add, best case he shows a couple of people, they become more aware and a few people correct their thought process and start looking at junctions.

Glad you're all good, hope the bike is ok.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

One thing I've taken from this is that whilst I thought I was visible, I know I can improve that so I'm going to add a couple more lights and wear more reflective/hi-vis clothing, I'm going to be the proverbial effing christmas tree come january!


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## veloevol (21 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> One thing I've taken from this is that whilst I thought I was visible, I know I can improve that so I'm going to add a couple more lights and wear more reflective/hi-vis clothing, I'm going to be the proverbial effing christmas tree come january!



You've done the right thing and educating the driver as mentioned by Scruff is key.

Think about a helmet mounted light also that way it's a directional beam.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

veloevol said:


> You've done the right thing and educating the driver as mentioned by Scruff is key.
> 
> Think about a helmet mounted light also that way it's a directional beam.


 
I've got front and back flashing frog lights on my helmet  I was thinking of getting a second set of powerful cycle mounted lights - have to be careful where I put them so as not to affect the fold on the Brompton.


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## BSRU (21 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> I've got front and back flashing frog lights on my helmet  I was thinking of getting a second set of powerful cycle mounted lights - have to be careful where I put them so as not to affect the fold on the Brompton.


It does not matter how many lights you have if they do not look properly their not going to see you.
When you've seen someone pull out on a police car with all lights and sirens going you realise you can only do so much.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

BSRU said:


> It does not matter how many lights you have if they do not look properly their not going to see you.
> When you've seen someone pull out on a police car with all lights and sirens going you realise you can only do so much.


 
 That's very true, some people are beyond hope... still worth a go though and if it doesn't do anything more than make me feel that little bit more confident then it's worked IMO.


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## veloevol (21 Dec 2012)

BSRU said:


> It does not matter how many lights you have if they do not look properly their not going to see you.
> When you've seen someone pull out on a police car with all lights and sirens going you realise you can only do so much.



Can't fault that logic but you can give yourself a better chance. In a similar situation David encountered I've looked at a potential side street threat with a strong head beam and I feel they have seen me sooner than if I'd had a basic front light set up.


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## CopperCyclist (21 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> I have and will continue to stress to the police that I don't want further action taken on this.



Don't worry yourself so much on this front. Once you've told us you don't want I going further, it won't be in these circumstances. Without you being willing to go to court, we technically have no evidence, so even if the bobby wanted it to, it wouldn't. I'd be surprised if it wasn't already filed!

The bonus of reporting, as Gaz mentioned, is that if he later decides not to reimburse you after finding out not every bike costs sixty quid from Tesco, you can recontact the police for those insurance details.

It also means that we have to check whether he is licenced and insured before we can file it, which is always a good thing.


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Is there not something in the T & C's about not promoting your own website?
> .


 
This.
'self-promotion is _only_ allowed if you make a positive contribution to our community'

And as far as I am concerned (and expect others feel the same) Gaz makes a very positive contribution to the CC community.


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## benb (21 Dec 2012)

ianrauk said:


> This.
> 'self-promotion is _only_ allowed if you make a positive contribution to our community'
> 
> And as far as I am concerned (and expect others feel the same) Gaz makes a very positive contribution to the CC community.


 
Hmm.


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

benb said:


> Hmm.


 

Meaning?


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Sorry but the above post is ambiguous.
> 
> Gaz could that just said to report the incident to Roadsafe rather the going to his site.


 

Gaz's link has very useful information as to how to report an incident. There is no problem with it.


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## Buddfox (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Sorry but the above post is ambiguous.
> 
> Gaz could that just said to report the incident to Roadsafe rather then going to his site.


 
Er, what? In what way is "the above post ambiguous"? And what's going on with your second sentence? Come off it...


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## veloevol (21 Dec 2012)

Handbags down boys. Does anyone think that site is actually a cash cow?


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> What needs to be defined is 'positive contribution', I make a positive contribution merely by being an active member of this site as this would count towards the active members log, which in turn Admin could use when marketing his site to outside interests - *yet I doubt I'd be able to openly self promote a website or blog of mine as Gaz has done imo*.


 
Why do you think that?


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> So by saying this are you agreeing that me being an active member, I am actually making a positive contribution? And that I will be able to self promote?


 

If you are seen to be making a positive contribution. Then yes.


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## Davidsw8 (21 Dec 2012)

I think if Gaz (or anyone) was supriously promoting a website that was nothing more than a profit generating exercise then fair enough but I've found Gaz's contributions here to be incredibly helpful and informative. I value the support and I think this is precisely the raison d'etre for these fora.


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## veloevol (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> I doubt Admin thought this site would be a cash cow when he first set it up and now look. Come to the site as a visitor and you're treated to ads of dating 'mature adults' and a link to a 'fitness singles' website.



The information on that site has helped me in the past and I've referred other people to it who've found it useful.
I'd hope you wouldn't object to me doing that here in the future. 

Sounds like you need Adblock sir or prerhaps a date. 

You're just a click away from happiness.


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## ianrauk (21 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Thank you for the clarification. I'm sure now that marketing experts will now love this site even more bearing in mind that they just need to be an active member to be 'making a positive contribution' whilst self promoting their website/products etc.


 
Thank you but please don't worry yourself.
We quite easily see through those that are making a positive contribution to the forum and those that try to use the forum solely for self/company promotion. Over the years we have become very adept at spotting and removing them.


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## benb (21 Dec 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Meaning?


 
Sorry if was not obvious that I was joking. Gaz is one of my favourite people here.


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## Norm (21 Dec 2012)

benb said:


> Sorry if was not obvious that I was joking. Gaz is one of my favourite people here.


It's all in the timing, Ben, it wasn't obvious to me. 

As for the difference between Gaz's contributions and those made by the "This site is great... come to my villas on the Algarve for the your holidays", you'd need to be a Muppet not to spot them. Fortunately, we have a number of vigilant CCers around who are very quick to spot and report the self-promoters.


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## BSRU (21 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> That's very true, some people are beyond hope... still worth a go though and if it doesn't do anything more than make me feel that little bit more confident then it's worked IMO.


I have lots of lights, just 20 minutes ago a pedestrian commented on how I could be clearly seen from over 500 metres away, would have been further if if not for the bend in the road, but I still get people pulling out on/across me.
It does definitely reduce people pulling out or across me but do not rely on them being seen by everyone or assuming the driver cares.


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## gaz (22 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Is there not something in the T & C's about not promoting your own website?
> 
> Anyways report the incident and I'm glad you are ok.


I don't get anything from people viewing my website. I have no adverts etc.. on it. Technically I probably pay more if more people view it, so really i'm costing my self more money by sharing good information.


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## GFamily (24 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> That's very true, some people are beyond hope... still worth a go though and if it doesn't do anything more than make me feel that little bit more confident then it's worked IMO.


No, WRONG!.
"it's worked" means that someone will NOT pull out in front of you
"makes me feel that little bit more confident" means that someone is JUST AS LIKELY to pull out in front of you but you will NOT EXPECT them to 

Big mistake


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> What needs to be defined is 'positive contribution', I make a positive contribution merely by being an active member of this site as this would count towards the active members log, which in turn Admin could use when marketing his site to outside interests - yet I doubt I'd be able to openly self promote a website or blog of mine as Gaz has done imo.


 
You do not merely make positive contribution just by being a member of a forum community, many forums including this one have active members which provide negative contribution and cause challenges for admins, threads have in the past on this very forum have been closed and deleted because of negative contributions.
Gaz contributes in a positive manner to not only this forum but to cycling in general, he regularly challenges the cycling community regarding our own conduct and behaviour with his sites like silly cyclists. Gaz continues to share his commutes and rides with everyone and openly admits when upon reflection he could have and should have acted slightly differently himself.

If you want to define clearly what a positive contribution is then I would state it is teaching someone something and I personally feel as if I have obtained knowledge and am a safer cyclist from watching gaz's videos and interacting with him. If that is not positive I do not know what is.


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## Crankarm (24 Dec 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> Thanks guys, I'm meant to go to the police station in person, really not sure there's any point. I've no intention of pressing charges and I doubt it'll cost very much to get my bike looked at and fixed if necessary.
> 
> But then, without reporting, it's one less stat for the books...
> 
> This is my first (hopefully, last) collision since I started riding in February and it's left me a bit shaken


 
Sorry but I am at a loss why 1) you have a helmet cam if you are not going to report a collision where some one drives into you 2) you post on here surely knowing that the response will be "have you reported it to the cops yet? What did they say?". Take up Gaz's offer of help to report it.


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## Crankarm (24 Dec 2012)

HLaB said:


> There was a good piece somebody posted the other week basically your brain smooths out images from your eyes and in doing so it may blank out small areas, explaining (but certainly not excusing SMIDSY). Unfortunately you could be dressed up like a Christmas Tree (apt at this time of year) with as many bright lights positioned on your helmet, bars etc but something which increases your chance of being in the blanked out zone like a parked car can be disastrous


 
Back in 1999 my first serious knock down on a roundabout, I and my bike were festooned with lights, but the f***r still drove into the back of me sending me flying. An RAC guy who witnessed the moton driving into me said in court I was dressed up "like a Christmas tree" which rather blew the moton's defence to pieces which was that I cycled backwards into him ........ unbelievable but true that he put forward such a ludicrous explanation for the collision. He was simply not paying adequate attention, speeding and drove into the back of me and my bike. I don't think the judge was that impressed.


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## gambatte (24 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> Come to the site as a visitor and you're treated to ads of dating 'mature adults' and a link to a 'fitness singles' website.


Strange. The adverts I get are for Wiggle, Millets etc.
I guess thats the thing about targetted advertising. Figure your browsing history means fit, single, mature, adults is what you're likely to be interested in?


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## Poacher (24 Dec 2012)

Curses, gambatte, You beat me to it (errr, by about 20 minutes).


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## Davidsw8 (24 Dec 2012)

GFamily said:


> No, WRONG!.
> "it's worked" means that someone will NOT pull out in front of you
> "makes me feel that little bit more confident" means that someone is JUST AS LIKELY to pull out in front of you but you will NOT EXPECT them to
> 
> Big mistake


 
Sorry, I must've given the impression I'd be cock-o-the-walk, mr indestructible with my all new flashing self on my illuminated bike.

People are telling me here (probably rightly) that no matter how obvious I make myself, some people simply will never see you. I realise you have to cycle with the assumption that some people aren't going to act rationally, logically or even legally. What I meant by 'a little more confident' is that I'm a relatively new cyclist (10 months) and I've just had my first accident, doing something positive from that experience will help push my cycling confidence up slightly rather than affect me negatively.


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## Davidsw8 (24 Dec 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Sorry but I am at a loss why 1) you have a helmet cam if you are not going to report a collision where some one drives into you 2) you post on here surely knowing that the response will be "have you reported it to the cops yet? What did they say?". Take up Gaz's offer of help to report it.


 
Hi Crankarm

If you read further, you'll see that I did report it to the police (within 24 hrs of the accident). If you read my other posts, you'll see my questions regarding whether I should do this or not. But to answer your 2 points:

1. This is my first accident so I didn't know how I was going to react when I first bought the cam. I got it really should something more serious happen. Even though a collision is a collision, I came out of this with minor scratches to my leg, minimal damage to my bike and the guy concerned hasn't been an ar$e about it.

2. I've had varied responses here, not just along the lines you quoted.


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## redcard (24 Dec 2012)

I sincerely hope your contributions to the numerous 'dating' websites you frequent are far more positive than your contributions here. For your sake, if nothing else.


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## redcard (24 Dec 2012)

Beano1 said:


> That's a bit harsh - what's your problem?



Just wishing you good luck getting a date.


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## Davidsw8 (12 Jan 2013)

Bit of an update...

After completing a report, the Met have sent a letter to both myself and the car driver. My letter states the matter is being looked into (also got a phone message from them asking me to supply a copy of the DVD of the collision).

I don't know what the drivers' letter said but he texted me to say he got the letter:

'claiming I drove without due car [sic] and attention... I'm afraid that's that [sic] information is incorrect, as it was you that was not visible to the public eye [sic]... I will appeal this claim and if found guilty I will make a counterclaim against you regarding this matter, on the grounds of poor visibility on your behalf.'

I reported it mainly to ensure I was covered financially should he decide to play funny buggers but it turns out the damage was able to be fixed with my routine service that was kind of due anyway. Also, I wanted to ensure the incident was recorded statistically, I was going to request the police do nothing more than write to him and inform him he must be more cautious in future but given that he clearly doesn't think he did anything wrong, plus the thinly veiled threat, I'm very inclined to push this as far as the police are prepared to go.

He doesn't know I have the incident on camera yet but he might be surprised to see my 2 sets of lights visibly flashing in the puddles of rain on the ground as we swapped phone numbers...


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## gaz (12 Jan 2013)

A counter claim? Haha this isn't judge judy!

Might be worth keeping a record of the texts and limit your discussion with the driver. Could come in handy with anything else down the line.

The police obviously see it as poor observations / driving on his behalf, he won't have a leg to stand on with video footage.


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## Davidsw8 (12 Jan 2013)

gaz said:


> A counter claim? Haha this isn't judge judy!
> 
> Might be worth keeping a record of the texts and limit your discussion with the driver. Could come in handy with anything else down the line.
> 
> The police obviously see it as poor observations / driving on his behalf, he won't have a leg to stand on with video footage.


 

I was a tad confused as to the counter-claim thing because there's no 'claim' from me to counter. I told him just before New Year that there's no damage for him to pay for, I just brought my 6-monthly service forward a month and the buckle in my wheel was fixed within that cost.

I didn't reply to this last text but yes, I'm keeping them.

I don't want to put the guy in the public stocks to be pelted with rotten fruit  I just want him to realise the potential damage he can cause by not looking properly and at the moment, he clearly thinks he's the victim here.


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## fossyant (12 Jan 2013)

Get a photo of the text, and send a copy to the police. Also photo your bike with the lights on, and send them that as well with the DVD.

Counter claim my ar$e.


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## gambatte (12 Jan 2013)

or tell plod you're mildly concerned with the commnication and wondered if it could be considered a threat to attempt to curtail any action? Could it be considered borderline 'interfering with a witness'?


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## BimblingBee (12 Jan 2013)

I'd be considering reviewing your current lighting system. From your vid even though its quite dark there is little, if any reflected light from you. Given the weather at the time I can't say I'm surprised they pulled out and given that 2 people said they didn't see you its even more concerning. 

You are also correct that those night vision jackets are great... If light is being shone at them, otherwise you are just wearing a black jacket.

Glad you were unhurt and suffered little damage.


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## Davidsw8 (12 Jan 2013)

Well, the vid is short so there's nothing to see the reflected light off of, it's very apparent later on in the full version when we're swapping numbers. As I say, 2 sets of lights flashing plus an extra light on my backpack should be sufficient.

However, I have now fitted an additional set of lights to my bike, so I now have THREE sets of lights on - if that ain't enough, God help us all


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## adamangler (12 Jan 2013)

blown out of proportion as usual, i dont blame the OP but he should have known posting this question on a cycling forum what the answer was going to be. so when i say this im not reffering to you OP in particular, rather the insensitive morons who have swayed you so...

bloke in car makes a mistake, no harm done, guy is pleasant and offers to pay for repairs.
guy get kick in bollocks for his efforts with police reports and threats of points/fines.
guy tries to defend himself with a counter claim, which to be fair is exactly what i would do to someone who stoops this low right or wrong.
some people have no conscience or empathy, its all me me me, i was wronged must get revenge, lets make someones life a misery because they made a mistake and showed remorse.
pathetic.

but thats just me


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## Hip Priest (12 Jan 2013)

I don't see what the OP has done wrong. We all make mistakes, but if I was the driver in this clip I'd have apologised profusely, and offered to pay for any damage. He clearly didn't look properly when leaving the junction.


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## fossyant (13 Jan 2013)

Wet weather really knocks light throw on the ground for a camera. In real life it doesn't for visibility. The driver was not paying attention.

I had a similar case, lit up quite well ( Cateye 510 x 2 and a Cree torch ) but was offed.

I had a total of 10 lights, 3 front, 3 back, and 4 flashers on the rucksack. On the deck. SMIDSY.

Now I run much brighter in your face lights - not necessary, but I do,


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## HLaB (13 Jan 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I don't see what the OP has done wrong. We all make mistakes, but if I was the driver in this clip I'd have apologised profusely, and offered to pay for any damage. He clearly didn't look properly when leaving the junction.


Come on it should be obvious from the, the OP left an inconvenient shoe mark on the car's bumper, surely that deserves a counter sue, after all its on the same level as attempted man slaughter through negligence/ reckless endangerment [invent some charge]


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## Hip Priest (13 Jan 2013)

HLaB said:


> Come on it should be obvious from the, the OP left an inconvenient shoe mark on the car's bumper, surely that deserves a counter sue, after all its on the same level as attempted man slaughter through negligence/ reckless endangerment [invent some charge]


 
Too right. I mean, how can you be expected to see a bicycle with two lights coming towards you? They don't even pay road tax!


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## Davidsw8 (13 Jan 2013)

adamangler said:


> blown out of proportion as usual, i dont blame the OP but he should have known posting this question on a cycling forum what the answer was going to be. so when i say this im not reffering to you OP in particular, rather the insensitive morons who have swayed you so...
> 
> bloke in car makes a mistake, no harm done, guy is pleasant and offers to pay for repairs.
> guy get kick in bollocks for his efforts with police reports and threats of points/fines.
> ...


 
To spell it out, there are 2 reasons for reporting this accident:

1. Insurance - The collision happened on 19th Dec, I had a buckle to my front wheel and my front mudguard was out of kilter. I couldn't get my bike serviced until 27th Dec (8 days later) and had no idea how much the damage would cost to rectify. The only guarantee I had that any costs would be covered was from an individual who's first impression I have of is his car colliding with my front wheel and left shin. If there had been costs and he decided not to pay up, how seriously would the Police take a report issued 8 days after the fact? As it was, I paid for the bike service myself and the damage was fixed within that, I haven't asked for him to cover the service charge.

2. Statistical - ROSPA states that: 'Every year in this country around 19,000 cyclists are killed or injured in reported road accidents, including around 3,000 who are killed or seriously injured.' That's 'reported' road accidents, 19,000 will be a massive under-representation of the reality and until the real figures are known, nothing will be done to improve safety for cyclists.

I did text the guy the very next day to say: 'I just wanted to let you know that I'm not taking this any further than filing a collision report with the police for their stats and for insurance purposes only.' (so, the report should have come as no surprise) - his only concern at the time was that we settle this between us so as not to affect his no claims.

I don't want to make anyone's life a misery, I want him to be more careful next time. If that had been a pedestrian (and pedestrians don't tend to walk around with 2 sets of lights on) they'd have been a lot more hurt than I was. He clearly thinks he didn't do anything wrong but to collide with someone who has more than double the lights on they're legally obliged to, at such a slow speed, shows a total lack of observation... but that's just me 

Ideally, I don't want the guy to be fined or issued points, I want the Police to tell him officially that he exercised very poor judgement and to be more careful in future - and for him to take that on board. Whether, I have that option, is out of my hands but I feel I've done the right thing here anyway so que sera sera.


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## ComedyPilot (13 Jan 2013)

Beano1 said:


> I doubt Admin thought this site would be a cash cow when he first set it up and now look. Come to the site as a visitor and you're treated to ads of dating 'mature adults' and a link to a 'fitness singles' website.


And there's a clear message to join us and lose the ads. Most other sites I go to never lose the ads, so 'Rebecca' is always just 3 miles away.


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## BimblingBee (13 Jan 2013)

It's easy to say you've got x amount of lights but if they are as bright as a candle then you might as well not have them...


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## glenn forger (13 Jan 2013)

It makes me mad when idiot drivers try to evade responsibility. He also sounds quite thick.


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## ComedyPilot (13 Jan 2013)

People still don't seem to grasp why this happens (car pulling out from side street, cyclist approaching from right (driver's side))

Despite retina-burning lamps it will happen as long as cyclists don't appear to the driver to be moving, or not moving very fast.

Whenever I approach a junction like that (in the car or on the bike) I look for eye contact. If I don't get it I do 2 things, I prepare to stop, and I move right/left slightly. This simple action, in the eyes of the other driver, creates lateral movement in their vision, and helps them 'see' me. Before this I was just a object that they didn't see because I didn't seem to be moving (although I was).

Simple way to demonstrate it. Hold your finger out at arm length and move it towards you. It doesn't seem to move much because it is travelling towards you, then it will suddenly appear and get splatted all over your bonnet/nose.

Now do the same thing at the same speed, but this time move it right/left a little (same relative speed). Notice how quick you spotted the right/left movement? We're predators with bifocal vision, and this movement detection is very strong and deeply primeval. Yes we can also spot things coming towards us, but the right/left trick triggers our vision/reactions very effectively.


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## Davidsw8 (13 Jan 2013)

BimblingBee said:


> It's easy to say you've got x amount of lights but if they are as bright as a candle then you might as well not have them...


 
According to the specs, the front light on the bike is as bright as 300 candles  and the batteries had just been charged. I appreciate there are much stronger lights out there but I have to consider the 'fold', so I've got an extra set of Brompton lights to add to my existing set plus the set of frog lights I wear on my cycle helmet plus the frog light on my backpack.


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## Davidsw8 (13 Jan 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> People still don't seem to grasp why this happens (car pulling out from side street, cyclist approaching from right (driver's side))
> 
> Despite retina-burning lamps it will happen as long as cyclists don't appear to the driver to be moving, or not moving very fast.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent advice CP, I try to make eye contact where I can but in this instance it was too dark but it's a very valuable piece of advice cos if you make eye contact and they still hit you, there's something seriously wrong.

Moving sideways a little is definitely a good ploy and I can totally see that would be more effective and I'm going to keep that in mind for the future. Though in this instance I was moving up the road as he was moving left to right to (eventually) cross me, so I guess to him, I would have been moving laterally...

He just wasn't looking, or he was looking for a car and not expecting a bike or pedestrian etc., the only thing I could've done to prevent this was to stop short and allow him to cross my path.


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## Kookas (13 Jan 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Excellent advice CP, I try to make eye contact where I can but in this instance it was too dark but it's a very valuable piece of advice cos if you make eye contact and they still hit you, there's something seriously wrong.
> 
> Moving sideways a little is definitely a good ploy and I can totally see that would be more effective and I'm going to keep that in mind for the future. Though in this instance I was moving up the road as he was moving left to right to (eventually) cross me, so I guess to him, I would have been moving laterally...
> 
> He just wasn't looking, or he was looking for a car and not expecting a bike or pedestrian etc., the only thing I could've done to prevent this was to stop short and allow him to cross my path.



If lateral movement makes you visible, would a horizontal LED strip with a pattern flashing from side to side do the trick?


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## ComedyPilot (13 Jan 2013)

Any movement that moves from left to right or up and down instead of (seemingly) remaining static will trigger our killer instinct vision


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## Davidsw8 (21 Feb 2013)

Just a quick update on this. Got home to find a letter from the Police regarding this case.

The driver has been offered the option of a National Drivers Awareness Course, if he declines to go on it (or doesn't show up) then they'll proceed with a prosecution.

I think this is the perfect result, if he toes the line then he won't get any points or a fine, but he'll get the message quite plainly that he needs to be more aware in future. If he doesn't, then that's his look out and he deserves what he gets.

So, I'm happy  and it shows that it's worth reporting these things.


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## glenn forger (21 Feb 2013)

thanks for doing this david.


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## Davidsw8 (5 Mar 2013)

Wasn't expecting to have to update this again but just had a call from the police and this chap is adamant that he did no wrong and he's declined to go on the course. So, now the police have to proceed with a prosecution which will most likely involve me having to go to court as a witness/victim.

The woman from the police said that she can clearly see one of my lights flashing in the dvd footage and she's keen not to let this go as it'll give him the wrong message.

Not happy about this at all, why can't this idiot just admit he's wrong? Does going on this course affect his insurance? I think points on his licence and a fine will do a lot more damage in that respect.

Anyway, I have a few days to think about it but if I don't want to appear as a witness then they have no case and it's dropped.


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## benb (5 Mar 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Wasn't expecting to have to update this again but just had a call from the police and this chap is adamant that he did no wrong and he's declined to go on the course. So, now the police have to proceed with a prosecution which will most likely involve me having to go to court as a witness/victim.
> 
> The woman from the police said that she can clearly see one of my lights flashing in the dvd footage and she's keen not to let this go as it'll give him the wrong message.
> 
> ...


 
I can see why you are uneasy about appearing as a witness, but IMO you really ought to let it go to court. The driver doesn't think he did anything wrong, so will do the same thing again in similar circumstances. Points and a fine might just get through, and if not will at least punish him a bit. If you let it drop, he will have got away with it.

Obviously up to you, but I know what I would do (easy for me to say, I know)


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## aces_up1504 (5 Mar 2013)

Its pretty obvious the guy is at fault.

Personally i think he is playing chicken with Police, he was declined the Driver Awareness course which costs around £100 i think.

He is probably hoping that the Police will deceide to drop the case. But for a £100 and no penalty points etc and no requirement to inform insurance its a pretty big gamble.

Can not see why you would not go to court, its not like you testifying against a gangster


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## chqshaitan (5 Mar 2013)

some insurance companies are getting wise to people doing SAC(speed awareness courses) instead of taking points, and ask that question when applying for their insurance. 

Sometimes people have to learn the hard way that they are wrong, looks like this is one of those unfortunate times. 

I know its easy for us to say go to court as we are not the person who will have to go, but all I can say is if he gets off with it, or the case is dropped, he could end up killing someone .

At least this way, he will be much more careful in the future (or should i say, should be).

You are in the home stretch now bud, stick with it. thumbs up to you, for going the extra mile


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## BSRU (5 Mar 2013)

I can imagine it will be an ordeal going to court but the driver is trying to get away scot-free.
Hopefully his is found guilty and given a more severe punishment for wasting police/court time.


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## benb (5 Mar 2013)

chqshaitan said:


> I know its easy for us to say go to court as we are not the person who will have to go, but all I can say is if he gets off with it, or the case is dropped, he could end up killing someone .


 
No pressure then!!


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## fossyant (5 Mar 2013)

I was a witness in October at Court for an RTA in the previous March. The driver said he hadn't done any wrong (u-turned across 'no-turn' hatchings, and in the process took a cyclist off - I was cycling behind and had a clear view. Anyway, £130 ish fine and 3 points and a few hours in court. Still see the driver - very distinctive gentleman and drives a black cab - bloody idiot. Civil case is still outstanding !


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## Davidsw8 (5 Mar 2013)

Thanks fellas, my hesitance is just based on the fact that I don't particularly like standing up in front of people talking at the best of times, let alone in a court, in front of a judge and someone who's going to be thinking I'm a complete *expletive* for dragging him in to this situation.

The surprising thing to me is that this seems like a very minor accident, he seemed VERY reasonable at the time, I'm not claiming for any repairs or personal injury (and I believe I probably could if I was that way inclined) and he could just take the awareness course and let that be the end of it.

The woman from the police told me that he doesn't know the incident is on camera yet and I'm thinking that maybe they should have shown him that before he made his decision to decline the course?

Anyway, my gut is telling me to man up, carry on with this till it's done and so I most likely will do that.

At the end of the day, despite having a reflective jacket and 2 sets of lights on, he collided with me.

I don't believe this guy is any kind of menace to society but he is definitely deluded if he thinks he's not culpable and how else is he now going to get that message other than from a court? Probably not even then really.


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## chqshaitan (5 Mar 2013)

thumbs up bud. Hand on heart, i am not sure what i would do in your situation, but kudos to you for seeing it to the next stage. 

He may just be bluffing and waiting to see what the police are going to do next.


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## Arjimlad (5 Mar 2013)

I hope you go to court really, this chap needs to be made more aware of the consequences of his actions. I go to court for work purposes and sometimes there are people who are so arrogant that they will only take legal advice from a Judge - and take the consequences.


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## CopperCyclist (5 Mar 2013)

The driver awareness course 'could' have affected his insurance, but it depends on the company. Some request you to declare it. My wife recently had a speed awareness course, and it made a difference of £4.85 to our yearly quote. Three points would have made a difference of £30.

I know this is easy to say, but magistrates court really isn't that intimidating. You won't be yelled at, called a liar and challenged. You'll simply be asked to recount specific facts by both sets of solicitors, and then the defence will try to find a loophole to get the driver off.

What happens over 90% of the time is that the defendant tries their luck and hope that witnesses won't turn up to court, at which stage it is dropped and they get away scot free. When the witnesses do turn up, they then put a guilty plea in, getting the benefit of an 'early plea' discount. The witness doesn't have to give evidence but has wasted a day turning up.

The magistrates may give you an monetary compensation if he is found guilty.

As a rule of thumb, if the CPS is willing to run something at magistrates court, it's almost certainly going to succeed if all witnesses and evidence are available.

I've probably attended Magistrates Court about 30 to 50 times in my career at a rough guess. I've actually given evidence in one about 4 or 5 times.

Crown Court is a little different - as the cases are more serious in Crown, they tend to try a prosecution anyway even if it's not a 100% cert, so in comparison I've attended Crown Court about 5 times, and given evidence 3 times.

This may be a deliberate attempt here to tug on your guilty strings... just ignore me if you want and remember its YOUR choice, and you were the victim, but... we hear so often on this site of instances where people have an accident and then get a poor
or service from the police. We hear this because these are the stories that get told. You've got a keen officer doing the right thing - give her the back up she needs to get things through to court. He was the one who chose to take it there, not you - remember that!


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## glenn forger (5 Mar 2013)

I'd love to be in court when the film is played!


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## EthelF (5 Mar 2013)

+1 to what a number of others have said - if you don't go through with this he will get away with it & might not learn from it. But at the same time I can understand your reservations.

Presumably he will find out about the video before it comes to court. With any luck this might persuade him to plead guilty, saving you having to face him in court.


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## Davidsw8 (5 Mar 2013)

CopperCyclist said:


> The driver awareness course 'could' have affected his insurance, but it depends on the company. Some request you to declare it. My wife recently had a speed awareness course, and it made a difference of £4.85 to our yearly quote. Three points would have made a difference of £30.
> 
> I know this is easy to say, but magistrates court really isn't that intimidating. You won't be yelled at, called a liar and challenged. You'll simply be asked to recount specific facts by both sets of solicitors, and then the defence will try to find a loophole to get the driver off.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks CC, that's really useful to know.

In cases where there is video evidence, does the defendant get told it exists and get shown it before they get to court? I reckon if he saw it, he'd take the course straight away and that'd be it.

And yeh, I'm going to proceed with this, I put the report in, it'd be silly not to see it through.


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## jarlrmai (5 Mar 2013)

nice one, it's a difficult decision when you just want to get on with life, hopefully you'll see a good result.

I too want to be there if/when he gets to recount some bullshit story to the court who are then shown the video.


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## CopperCyclist (5 Mar 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Thanks CC, that's really useful to know.
> 
> In cases where there is video evidence, does the defendant get told it exists and get shown it before they get to court? I reckon if he saw it, he'd take the course straight away and that'd be it.
> 
> And yeh, I'm going to proceed with this, I put the report in, it'd be silly not to see it through.



Yes, all evidence has to be made available to the defence prior to the court case.

He may have had a solicitor suggest a loophole to him, or even just suggest the 'see if he turns up trick'. I once saw someone get off because he was charged with 'careless driving' and the defence argued it wasn't careless, it was a deliberate act and so was 'inconsiderate' and the wording of the charge should have reflected that. It worked, he got off, even though careless/inconsiderate are the same act and section with the same burden of proof.


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## Davidsw8 (5 Mar 2013)

It feels like a game of chicken at the moment, all very unnecessary...


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## Trickedem (5 Mar 2013)

I had a similar issue and the driver turned down the awareness course. I was asked to go to court as a witness and provided various dates. Next thing I know, I was told the driver had been prosecuted. So I assume they pleaded guilty. Please go ahead and offer to be a witness.


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## gaz (5 Mar 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Wasn't expecting to have to update this again but just had a call from the police and this chap is adamant that he did no wrong and he's declined to go on the course. So, now the police have to proceed with a prosecution which will most likely involve me having to go to court as a witness/victim.
> 
> The woman from the police said that she can clearly see one of my lights flashing in the dvd footage and she's keen not to let this go as it'll give him the wrong message.
> 
> ...


Really? they will drop the case? Several drivers have been prosecuted with the use of my footage and i've never had to go to court, including one where I went flying over his bonnet.


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## glenn forger (5 Mar 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Thanks fellas, my hesitance is just based on the fact that I don't particularly like standing up in front of people talking at the best of times, let alone in a court, in front of a judge and someone who's going to be thinking I'm a complete *expletive* for dragging him in to this situation.


 
remember that he ignored a give way line, could have seriously injured you, and has lied to both you and the cops. Only one person is responsible for the driver ending up in court.

The driver.


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## boydj (5 Mar 2013)

CopperCyclist has called it right. You are highly unlikely to have to give evidence. If the guy gets a solicitor who'll then see the footage, he'll plead guilty before any trial actually starts - though he may not do it until the last minute.

+1 for supporting the officer who is pushing to take the case all the way - we could do with a few more like that.


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## davefb (6 Mar 2013)

god knows why he hasnt done the course... I just did the speed one, ( it was 'interesting', they even mentioned smidsy's)... We got told "think yourself lucky you're not next door in the driving awareness one, it's all day"... not quite sure, but that might have been the one which involves driving and someone checking your 'awareness'..

if you haven't claimed for anything,, well time to talk to people.. the bloke should be thanking the gods you actually managed to avoid an accident....


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## Davidsw8 (7 Mar 2013)

davefb said:


> god knows why he hasnt done the course... I just did the speed one, ( it was 'interesting', they even mentioned smidsy's)... We got told "think yourself lucky you're not next door in the driving awareness one, it's all day"... not quite sure, but that might have been the one which involves driving and someone checking your 'awareness'..
> 
> if you haven't claimed for anything,, well time to talk to people.. the bloke should be thanking the gods you actually managed to avoid an accident....


 
Not sure what I'd claim for really, I incurred no costs and haven't suffered any mental anguish besides feelings of irritation and bewilderment that this guy fails to see what he did wrong.

The only thing I'd consider claiming for is if I have to take a day off work to go to Court for this total waste of time.


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## Matthew_T (7 Mar 2013)

Having watched the video again, I cannot understand why he doesnt accept fault. After you passed the parked car, you were in full view of him. There were not obstructions and the first time you shouted provided him with plenty of time to stop.



Davidsw8 said:


> The only thing I'd consider claiming for is if I have to take a day off work to go to Court for this total waste of time.


If you claim for the day off work, then it is likely you will get a little bit of compensation. Which will be paid for by the driver.


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## Davidsw8 (17 Jun 2013)

Finally heard from the Met with regards to progress on this.

They've set a first court hearing for the 26th June, I don't have to attend this - I'm assuming this is where he pleads guilty or not guilty and depending on that, the 2nd hearing is where I give evidence. Safe to assume that he'll plead not guilty as this would all have been long over if he'd just taken the awareness course and let that be the end of it.

Unless he hasn't seen the video footage until just prior to the hearing in which case I might be spared the trip to court if he pleads guilty. He has to be fairly confident in his position to drag it along this far, he would've just had to spend one day on a course (and pay for it), now he has to have 2 trips to court plus potentially still pay a fine, plus have points on his licence and maybe even pay costs... I'm curious as to how he can justify hitting a well-lit cyclist at a fairly slow speed with little distraction around though.

Anyone know how long between hearing 1 and hearing 2 usually?


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## fossyant (17 Jun 2013)

Maybe a month or two. Was the case with the one I attended. No need for the first as its usually in and out.


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## campbellab (17 Jun 2013)

My guess is he'll say you didn't have any lights on at the time or something?

Although I don't think any magistrate is going to think someone who bothers with a head cam would not have lights on. Hopefully you have a longer video to show some of them reflecting from somewhere etc? I think you can just about make a couple of flashes on his bonnet at the end of your posted video. I also guess you have video footage of the aftermath.


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## Davidsw8 (18 Jun 2013)

campbellab said:


> My guess is he'll say you didn't have any lights on at the time or something?
> 
> Although I don't think any magistrate is going to think someone who bothers with a head cam would not have lights on. Hopefully you have a longer video to show some of them reflecting from somewhere etc? I think you can just about make a couple of flashes on his bonnet at the end of your posted video. I also guess you have video footage of the aftermath.


 
Yeh, the video is a lot longer and the police have the full copy, it's mainly him getting out of the car then the 10 min discussion and swapping of details after. Though when I spoke to the lady from the Met about his claim he couldn't see me, she laughed and said she could see my lights flashing in reflection.

I had 2 sets of flashing lights on my helmet, plus the obligatory steady set on my bike, plus a flashing rear one on my back and a black, reflective cycle jacket (and ankle reflector). It's going to be tough for him to prove I wasn't visible, though one guy driving behind him stopped and piped up that he couldn't see me either but then he was a good way up the road behind (you can see him in the video) and shouldn't he be focussing more on what's directly around him and what the car in front of him is doing? But maybe he'll get him in as a witness, I don't know - but they didn't swap details.

I think the guy genuinely believes he's in the right and that he couldn't see me and this worries me because I was more than appropriately lit (the Highway Code only stipulates one set of lights plus fitted reflectors). So I believe he has no cycle awareness whatsover and as such is a danger to other cyclists until he accepts he was in the wrong. I think the course would have done him (and others) the world of good.

If either of us had been going faster, this would have been a lot more serious than just a dented front mudguard and a bashed shin (still got the marks 6 months later).


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## campbellab (18 Jun 2013)

I guess he didn't see you either physically or mentally (but could see you if he observed better), then his mind has just filled in the gaps to come to the most comfortable conclusion ie there was no way he could see you as he's a good driver and was paying attention.

The mind does wonderful things whn thngs r mssng!


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## gambatte (19 Jun 2013)

campbellab said:


> The mind does wonderful things whn thngs r mssng!


 
Like a frontal lobe?


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## fossyant (19 Jun 2013)

It doesn't surprise me. The case I was involved in - the chap chose to represent himself, and said his car wasn't where we said it was on the road, he wasn't doing a u-turn, we were making it up. I'd taken photo's on my phone after phoning the ambulance, and there were already in the evidence pack - needless to say the panel pointed out the pictures to him again.


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## gaz (19 Jun 2013)

Fingers crossed he pleads Guilty, it's better in his interest if he does and it means you don't need to go to court.

If you do need to go to court, just keep your answers short and factual and you will be fine


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## Davidsw8 (28 Jun 2013)

This is hopefully my last update on this... 

The 1st hearing was a couple of days ago and I've only just managed to get through to the Magistrates Court. They've told me that the guy plead guilty and has received a £266 fine plus 5 points on his license. Compare this to 0 points plus only having to pay £90-£100 to go on a Drivers' Awareness course shows this gamble seriously didn't pay off. 

Part of me feels really frustrated that he didn't just do the course in the first place but hopefully now this is a lesson learned. I just really hope that he knows he did wrong in this situation rather than pleading guilty at this stage to get off a greater fine later on.


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## glenn forger (28 Jun 2013)

I wish I could have been there when he was showed the clip. But yes, it's annoying people can drive like idiots and waste everyone's time with lies. His insurance renewal will be interesting.


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## gambatte (28 Jun 2013)

Plus victim surcharge..?


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## Davidsw8 (28 Jun 2013)

gambatte said:


> Plus victim surcharge..?


 
She didn't give me a breakdown of the costs, maybe I'll see that if they write to me? I'm not sure what the victim surcharge is but I didn't ask for anything.


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## gambatte (28 Jun 2013)

another £15, added to everything - every little helps?


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## BSRU (28 Jun 2013)

Shame they cannot fine him for wasting police/CPS/courts time.


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## adamangler (28 Jun 2013)

I have to wonder who the biggest daffodil is here. The driver or the op. Probably both


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## benb (28 Jun 2013)

That's a good result.


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## benb (28 Jun 2013)

adamangler said:


> I have to wonder who the biggest **** is here. The driver or the op. Probably both


 

What? What is your problem with the OP?


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## Buddfox (28 Jun 2013)

adamangler said:


> I have to wonder who the biggest **** is here. The driver or the op. Probably both


 

Eh? What did the OP do wrong?


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## Davidsw8 (28 Jun 2013)

adamangler said:


> I have to wonder who the biggest **** is here. The driver or the op. Probably both



Who knows? Could be you mate!  

Xx


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## Davidsw8 (28 Jun 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Eh? What did the OP do wrong?


Adam had a problem with me about reporting mobile phone users ages ago and the poor lamb cant seem to get passed it


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## BentMikey (28 Jun 2013)

adamangler said:


> I have to wonder who the biggest **** is here. The driver or the op. Probably both


 

That's a decidedly odd point of view. I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to think so.

The only minor issue I have is with the OP calling this an accident. It wasn't, it was a collision with the driver found to be at fault in court, and rightly so. http://www.roadpeace.org/campaigns/crash/


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## DCLane (28 Jun 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> Adam had a problem with me about reporting mobile phone users ages ago and the poor lamb cant seem to get passed it


 
Don't worry - you did the right thing.


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2013)

5 points... ha ha ha. Stupid fool


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## Crankarm (28 Jun 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> This is hopefully my last update on this...
> 
> The 1st hearing was a couple of days ago and I've only just managed to get through to the Magistrates Court. They've told me that the guy plead guilty and has received a £266 fine plus 5 points on his license. Compare this to 0 points plus only having to pay £90-£100 to go on a Drivers' Awareness course shows this gamble seriously didn't pay off.
> 
> Part of me feels really frustrated that he didn't just do the course in the first place but hopefully now this is a lesson learned. I just really hope that he knows he did wrong in this situation rather than pleading guilty at this stage to get off a greater fine later on.


 
AFAIK the Drivers' awareness courses do not have any specific training for drivers how to drive around cyclists. I think you had the best result. 5 points on his license is 2 more than the usual three for careless driving. Should make his insurance premiums a little more weighty. Plus his guilty plea makes any civil case you bring against him sooo much easier relatively speaking. What a tool. The magistrates should have insisted he goes to Spec Savers as it is really worrying that muppets like him are driving around oblivious to what or who is around them.


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## Trickedem (5 Jul 2013)

Good result and well done for sticking to your guns. This will cost him a lot more over the next few years on his insurance.


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