# Women in cycling



## classic33 (13 May 2014)

Why is womens cycling/women in cycling not given the same type of coverage as cycling in general.
Walk into most cycle stores and a step-through frame, unless electric assist is going to be hard to spot. Are women not supposed to ride a bike these days!
It could help on cutting down on the school run, by car and maybe even getting a few more interested long term in cycling, from an early age.
On TV, very little coverage of 
many events with only highlights shown.


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## MikeG (13 May 2014)

Why would a step-through frame be associated with women?


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

Have you seen the URL the telegraph uses for cycling? www.telegraph.co.uk/*men*/active/recreational-cycling/

(and there is a pervasive air of sexism here, that I don't encounter IRL)


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## JoeyB (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> Why would a step-through frame be associated with women?



Well they are aren't they? Educate me please!


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> Why would a step-through frame be associated with women?


Goes back a bit, history wise.


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> Why would a step-through frame be associated with women?


so you can a wear this dress, and still cycle to the pub. OK, I was using a folder, so it's only accidentally step through, but still.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

Because all men are b*star*s?

Take a look at Cycling Plus which claims to be Britain's biggest selling cycling publication, if they can't be arsed to recognise that women may ride a sporty bike that didn't cost £50 from Tesco , what hope is there for the 'mainstream' media? In last month's there was one picture of Laura Trott (I think) in a short article on some aspect of pro cycling where they talked about male pro cyclists...otherwise nothing!

The recent women's ToB got some airtime, but I bet there would have been even less (if any) if it had been in another country

Cycling Active is better, and probably reflects the ratio men:women who ride bikes. I quite like the Women's Cycling mag, perhaps a bit patronising, but it speaks to its intended audience and purpose which is to get more women cycling IMO


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## MikeG (13 May 2014)

My point being that judging how well women are catered for in cycle shops by looking at the number of step-through bikes on sale is not very instructive. The only step-through bikes I see being ridden are being used by old people, who make up a very small percentage of the cycling public. Most women I know would sneer at the idea of riding a step-through.

I take your general point about the way female cyclists are treated as a bit of an afterthought in some places............but I would say that I think enormous strides are being made.


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## MikeG (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Because all men are b*star*s?......



No, Vickster, we aren't.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

Oh dear, it was a joke


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## Diggs (13 May 2014)

To head back on track, It's been growing slowly and heading in the right direction, The Women's Tour was a great success, same prize money as the men and an hour of highlights each evening (more than I got for Rugby Union on the tv when I was growing up). There's Breeze on Sky Ride. London Bike Kitchen hold women specific events. Unfortunately there is still everyday sexism there but I think we can be optimistic.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> I take your general point about the way female cyclists are treated as a bit of an afterthought in some places............but I would say that I think some enormous strides are being made.



FTFY


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

Maybe the shops do not want to take up expensive floor space with something they may only sell a few of, I am sure that if the enquiries came in then stocking levels would rise.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> My point being that judging how well women are catered for in cycle shops by looking at the number of step-through bikes on sale is not very instructive. ...



Nope, should be judged by how many pink and pastel-coloured bikes they sell....


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Womens cycling is like any other sport. Its all about money or the lack thereof. Its the same in football, rugby, tennis, in fact all sports. For some reason womems sporting events aren't seen as important, as good, or as valid as mens events. 

Until women are on a par with men, then they won't be taken seriously, and they will still, be steered towards step thoughs and hybrids


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

Not sure if this is sexist or not hopefully not, but what are women doing about it?


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Nope, should be judged by how many pink and pastel-coloured bikes they sell....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Piranello do a pink bike for men in the late 80's.


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## swansonj (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> No, Vickster, we aren't.


Oh yes we are...


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Maybe the shops do not want to take up expensive floor space with something they may only sell a few of, I am sure that if the enquiries came in then stocking levels would rise.


I've said this elsewhere, but I've been brushed off at more than one cycle store: ignored; pushed towards flat bar when I specifically asked for drop bars; responded with a casual shrug of the shoulders when I asked why women's framed bikes cost an extra £100 for the same spec'd men's frame.


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

and it would help to have a little less of this sort of throw back "humour" here



DiddlyDodds said:


> I thought of doing the shopping on the bike , then thought better of it as shopping is women's work , and sent the wife on the bus whilst i washed an polished the car and bike.


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## JoeyB (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Piranello do a pink bike for men in the late 80's.



And Planet X - in their current line up. Not to mention all those Bianchi's!


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Maybe the shops do not want to take up expensive floor space with something they may only sell a few of, I am sure that if the enquiries came in then stocking levels would rise.


Maybe there being put off asking, because they don't see what they want. 
There's been any amount of "stupid questions" asked over equipment. And a common response being go elsewhere to get what you want if its not in one place.


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Maybe women are put off by the salesmens attitude towards them?


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> Maybe there being put off asking, because they don't see what they want.
> There's been any amount of "stupid questions" asked over equipment. And a common response being go elsewhere to get what you want if its not in one place.


Possibly, but I would have thought most bike shops would know what sells and what does not.

Not sticking up for them as I would like to see a lot more women's bums on bikes ( that does not sound like it should) Maybe a women's specific cycles chain of shops, owned by women and staffed by women.


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Maybe women are put off by the salesmens attitude towards them?


No, I do not go with this one, women are far more scarey than men. You ask any married bloke.


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## swansonj (13 May 2014)

A step through frame is clearly not the optimum design for a bike, other things being equal (if it were, all bikes would have step-through frames)

Therefore, assuming that women need a step through frame is assuming a woman needs a product that is in at least one respect inferior.

There are valid reasons for producing a bike that sacrifices one aspect of optimum design to favour another - folding bikes for instance, or bikes for people with limited leg mobility.

If a woman wants a bike she can ride in a skirt, or a bloke wants a bike he can ride in a skirt (or kilt if you insist), then they should be offered such a bike. But it's still difficult to escape the association "woman - not a serious cyclist - give her a sub optimum design".


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

Where the shops do bother to stock a range of women's kit, it often goes no bigger than a size 14 on the shop floor, while you can get an XXL (UK sizing in men's)

Not all women who ride road bikes are built like a pro cyclist FFS! And some of us are prepared to buy clothing in shops rather than having to dig around online for the one shop that may have a larger size (and then charges for return postage when it doesn't fit)

Rant over


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## marzjennings (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Womens cycling is like any other sport. Its all about money or the lack thereof. Its the same in football, rugby, tennis, in fact all sports. For some reason womems sporting events aren't seen as important, as good, or as valid as mens events.



It's because no one watches them on TV. For the most part sport is seen as entertainment, entertaining things get televised, ratings measure the success and therefore the value of the entertainment. If no one is going to watch it, then no one is going to sponsor it and there's no money to support the player/riders.


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Possibly, but I would have thought most bike shops would know what sells and what does not.
> 
> Not sticking up for them as I would like to see a lot more women's bums on bikes ( that does not sound like it should) Maybe a women's specific cycles chain of shops, owned by women and staffed by women.


Why not more women in the shops we already have.
Creating a seperate market may well increase the cost and further distance women fron mainstream cycling!
Niche market normally equates to higher prices. Whatever your selling.


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## Crackle (13 May 2014)

I posted this on the Women's Tour thread earlier. It's a long read for an article but well worth it and says a lot about Women's racing near the end and whether we've reached a tipping point.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/10...alfonsina-strada-giro-italia-woman-grand-tour


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> Why not more women in the shops we already have.
> Creating a seperate market may well increase the cost and further distance women fron mainstream cycling!
> Niche market normally equates to higher prices. Whatever your selling.


Good points, but the last 3 times I have been in an Evans I have been served by a female, so maybe it is happening. Now is the shortest due to females not wanting the jobs, or males not employing them.


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

When I was looking for a bike, I went to my LBS. After telling him what I wanted a bike for, he showed me a giant escape step through womens hybrid. That was the only bike he thought i should have


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

marzjennings said:


> It's because no one watches them on TV. For the most part sport is seen as entertainment, entertaining things get televised, ratings measure the success and therefore the value of the entertainment. If no one is going to watch it, then no one is going to sponsor it and there's no money to support the player/riders.


But if you don't get the chance to see it, would you consider its because its not worthwile putting up there in the first place, which is why its not shown.

When did you last see a female cycle mechanic/technichian in a bike shop?


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

marzjennings said:


> It's because no one watches them on TV. For the most part sport is seen as entertainment, entertaining things get televised, ratings measure the success and therefore the value of the entertainment. If no one is going to watch it, then no one is going to sponsor it and there's no money to support the player/riders.



Why do the large numbers watch the mens cycling. Is it not seen as just entertainment as well? I don't think so.


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

@Crackle, aware of the thread concerning coverage of cycle racing but didn't want to hijack it with a piece about women an cycling in general.


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## Crackle (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> @Crackle, aware of the thread concerning coverage of cycle racing but didn't want to hijack it with a piece about women an cycling in general.


Crack on, I'm enjoying reading Screenman's market forces view of meeting women's needs.


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> When I was looking for a bike, I went to my LBS. After telling him what I wanted a bike for, he showed me a giant escape step through womens hybrid. That was the only bike he thought i should have


Did you slap him, you should have.


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> No, I do not go with this one, women are far more scarey than men. You ask any married bloke.


This is exactly what I am talking about. 1970s sexist humour makes this place pretty unwelcoming to women. 

And pretty irrelevant. It may be that men are intimidated in cookware shops staffed by women, but take that to http://www.goodfoodforum.com/. Most bike shops are staffed by men, and it can be quite hard to make them take you seriously. Which I don't bother to do, I just take my business elsewhere.


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Did you slap him, you should have.



To be honest, I hadnt been on a bike in 45 years, so I didn't know what to do.


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Why do the large numbers watch the mens cycling. Is it not seen as just entertainment as well? I don't think so.


I know of only a few women who watch cycling on TV, but I know a lot of men who do. But then again all of those already ride bikes, and too fast in some cases.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

The reaction to that kind of attitude depends very much on the self-confidence of the woman concerned. I would have no trouble explaining the error of his ways (and I'm guessing WD managed to do so as well! ).

But a newcomer to cycling, or one without (shock, horror) a male partner/friend along to 'supervise' could easily end up being sold the wrong kind of bike. Even if someone reads up about it, it is all too easy to be persuaded that you have misunderstood and that this, madam, is the bike you _really_ want.


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## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> When I was looking for a bike, I went to my LBS. After telling him what I wanted a bike for, he showed me a giant escape step through womens hybrid. That was the only bike he thought i should have


I think my experience was worse. I went to several shops, and said "I'm looking for a drop bar commuter" IE the only thing I was specifying was that it should have drop bars, everything else was open for discussion. At at least 2 places (Decathlon and Pearson) they immediately started showing me flat barred bikes.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Well I bought a male bike [I assume] because that's what I liked and that's what fitted. Talking to the rest of the female participants at a recent sportive that was also their choice. Maybe there is no problem ? Or just one imagined by men. Why don't you get on with your own business and stop worrying about ours !


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> This is exactly what I am talking about. 1970s sexist humour makes this place pretty unwelcoming to women.
> 
> And pretty irrelevant. It may be that men are intimidated in cookware shops staffed by women, but take that to http://www.goodfoodforum.com/. Most bike shops are staffed by men, and it can be quite hard to make them take you seriously. Which I don't bother to do, I just take my business elsewhere.


Please accept my apologies, although I doubt you will. 

Surely if you are intimidated then you just find a shop with female assistance.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> To be honest, I hadnt been on a bike in 45 years, so I didn't know what to do.





Spinney said:


> The reaction to that kind of attitude depends very much on the self-confidence of the woman concerned. I would have no trouble explaining the error of his ways (*and I'm guessing WD managed to do so as well*! ).



Oops, I'm wrong! Bet she could now, though!


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (13 May 2014)

I have to say that my last experience of shopping for a road bike was enlightening and completely different from those mentioned above. This being last month - I have had the bike just over 3 weeks, so give some idea of the time frame.

I walked into Evans Cycles on Good Friday (Chill Factore in the Trafford centre). I had a nosey around and looked at various men's road bikes. I have never previously had a women's specific bike before, so had not even considered looking for them. I wanted to try a couple of the men's road bikes out and was approached by a male shop assistant. Explained the situation and he unlocked a couple of them and we talked about them. He then suggested that I looked at the women's road bikes - not a step through frame insight. His suggestion that I looked at the ladies bikes was because of the normal reach issues that I have always had with men's bikes if I get the correct leg length (If I get the correct reach, I always end up replacing the seat post with a longer one!). He unlocked a number of these as well for me to try before I settled on one of them that fitted me really well. At no time was it every suggested to me that I try a hybrid or flat bars or was he in the slightest bit condescending. He was nothing but helpful and considerate. I had very specific requirements (triple 8 speed with minimum 11-28 cassette or a compact 50/34 with at least a 12-32 cassette and a long reach derailleur). Perhaps it was because my OH left me to the talking or perhaps he was simply very good at his job and realised I knew what I was talking about, I don't know... but he got the sale when we found the bike that fitted me. 
For the record and the very reason I went to that store (it being an Evans superstore), they had at least +20 ladies road bikes in that section of the store (and there were other areas for mountain biking, hybrids, shoppers, tourers etc that I did not visit).


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Well I bought a male bike [I assume] because that's what I liked and that's what fitted. Talking to the rest of the female participants at a recent sportive that was also their choice. Maybe there is no problem ? Or just one imagined by men. Why don't you get on with your own business and stop worrying about ours !


I think at least two posts in this thread from women have indicated that there IS a problem, and it is not one just imagined by men. If you haven't had a problem, that's great, but it doesn't mean that there _isn't_ a problem.


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Well I bought a male bike [I assume] because that's what I liked and that's what fitted. Talking to the rest of the female participants at a recent sportive that was also their choice. Maybe there is no problem ? Or just one imagined by men. Why don't you get on with your own business and stop worrying about ours !


Err! I do not know if there is a problem, I just dropped in on this post and was being informed there was one.


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> The reaction to that kind of attitude depends very much on the self-confidence of the woman concerned. I would have no trouble explaining the error of his ways (and I'm guessing WD managed to do so as well! ).
> 
> But a newcomer to cycling, or one without (shock, horror) a male partner/friend along to 'supervise' could easily end up being sold the wrong kind of bike. Even if someone reads up about it, it is all too easy to be persuaded that you have misunderstood and that this, madam, is the bike you _really_ want.


I was so put off, that yes i went to the wrong place and bought the wrong bike. Now i have a BSO. I had no good advise from anyone


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## winjim (13 May 2014)

With its talk of step-through frames, the OP is either (a) trolling or (b) answering its own question. The reason, of course, is that the whole of our society is so massively skewed in favour of straight white males that you could replace the word "cycling" in the original question with pretty much anything and it would still be true.

Maybe when we've achieved wage equality then women will have more money to spend on things like bikes...


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Oops, I'm wrong! Bet she could now, though!



Dam right.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> I think at least two posts in this thread from women have indicated that there IS a problem, and it is not one just imagined by men. If you haven't had a problem, that's great, but it doesn't mean that there _isn't_ a problem.


 With bikes or men selling them ?


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

winjim said:


> Maybe when we've achieved wage equality then women will have more money to spend on things like bikes...



Oooh - sweeping generalisation! Plenty of women have plenty of money to spend on bikes, if that's what they want to spend their money on! I could buy a £3000 fancy carbon effort if I wanted it, but I don't. I'm happy with my steel tourer.


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## gaz (13 May 2014)

One thing I've noticed that I think is very strange with the women pro teams is the photo shots they do. They have the women doing all these awkward poses with wheels and bikes that I guess are trying to make them look attractive and sexy. But really it just looks awkward. Don't see the mens teams doing that, or maybe they don't get published as much.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> With bikes or men selling them ?


Men selling them. Isn't that part of what this thread is about?

If you are talking about needing women specific frames, see SatNav's post - she is happier with a frame designed for women.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Men selling them. Isn't that part of what this thread is about?
> 
> If you are talking about needing women specific frames, see SatNav's post - she is happier with a frame designed for women.


Well the title was women in cycling ? Somehow its been turned into men in womens' cycling. There's no hope.

There are plenty of women specific frames, the point I was making was to try and indicate why suppliers may not stock them.


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## winjim (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Oooh - sweeping generalisation! Plenty of women have plenty of money to spend on bikes, if that's what they want to spend their money on! I could buy a £3000 fancy carbon effort if I wanted it, but I don't. I'm happy with my steel tourer.


That wasn't exactly the point I was driving at...


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## Crackle (13 May 2014)

gaz said:


> One thing I've noticed that I think is very strange with the women pro teams is the photo shots they do. They have the women doing all these awkward poses with wheels and bikes that I guess are trying to make them look attractive and sexy. But really it just looks awkward. Don't see the mens teams doing that, or maybe they don't get published as much.


Cipollini







Men do it. You maybe don't notice it as much or maybe they do it less because they actually get paid a decent wage for being a pro cyclist.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Men selling them. Isn't that part of what this thread is about?
> 
> If you are talking about needing women specific frames, see SatNav's post - she is happier with a frame designed for women.


 Shirley there is a business oppurtunity here.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Why do the large numbers watch the mens cycling. Is it not seen as just entertainment as well? I don't think so.


To be fair I only watch it for the legs, I don't really care what the result is  Mostly it's really quite boring as a sport


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> To be fair I only watch it for the legs, I don't really care what the result is  Mostly it's really quite boring as a sport



 at least your honest


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Please accept my apologies, although I doubt you will.
> 
> Surely if you are intimidated then you just find a shop with female assistance.


Except, at least certainly around here, none of the high end shops have women shop staff around at all times the shop is open


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## classic33 (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Except, at least certainly around here, none of the high end shops have women shop staff around at all times the shop is open


Local Halfords no longer have women in the cycle section, except for when its busy. 
Even then they're expected to cover the childrens bikes only.


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Except, at least certainly around here, none of the high end shops have women shop staff around at all times the shop is open


Is that the fault of the women not wanting to work there at those times?


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

There is a girl in Halfords who is nice, don't know what her knowledge on bikes is like. I think Pearsons have one lass in the main shop in Sutton, but not in the pro shop where the roadbikes are. Corridori and Fudges, no women I have seen. Evans in Wimbledon, perhaps one or two


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> Local Halfords no longer have women in the cycle section, except for when its busy.
> Even then they're expected to cover the childrens bikes only.


Unfortunately I do not expect the best of Halfrauds whatever they do.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> Is that the fault of the women not wanting to work there at those times?


No why would it be, plenty of women work in other shops? Except the one woman on staff can't cover a seven day week, 11 hour day as in the case of say Evans or Halfords. My point was at *all times* the shop is open


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

How many of you women on this topic


vickster said:


> No why would it be, plenty of women work in other shops? Except the one woman on staff can't cover a seven day week, 11 hour day as in the case of say Evans or Halfords. My point was at *all times* the shop is open



I said there, not other shops. Maybe females jut do not want to work in a cycle shop, do you?


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> How many of you women on this topic
> 
> 
> I said there, not other shops. Maybe females *jut do not want to work in a cycle shop, do you*?


I personally would love to.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I was so put off, that yes i went to the wrong place and bought the wrong bike. Now i have a BSO. I had no good advise from anyone


 ..but this is not female specific is it ?


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> The reaction to that kind of attitude depends very much on the self-confidence of the woman concerned. I would have no trouble explaining the error of his ways (and I'm guessing WD managed to do so as well! ).
> 
> But a newcomer to cycling, or one without (shock, horror) a male partner/friend along to 'supervise' could easily end up being sold the wrong kind of bike. Even if someone reads up about it, it is all too easy to be persuaded that you have misunderstood and that this, madam, is the bike you _really_ want.



I think that is not just a female specific point.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> How many of you women on this topic
> 
> 
> I said there, not other shops. Maybe females jut do not want to work in a cycle shop, do you?



No because I personally have no interest in mechanical stuff and I earn rather more doing what I do than I would working in Evans (or any shop)..


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## screenman (13 May 2014)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> I personally would love to.


Have you applied, I for one would certainly not want to work in a bike shop, wages for one thing.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> How many of you women on this topic
> 
> 
> I said there, not other shops. Maybe females jut do not want to work in a cycle shop, do you?


 Not for the money they are on.


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> ..but this is not female specific is it ?





Shadowfax said:


> ..but this is not female specific is it ?



No probably not, but it seems like it.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Walking into a shop with little idea of what you are going to walk out with is a recipe for disaster no matter who you are.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

..and don't start on shoes !!!!!


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Walking into a shop with little idea of what you are going to walk out with is a recipe for disaster no matter who you are.



Yes. I expect it is, but it seems even worse when there are only men there, and your thinking that they will think your a muppet and they will, be able to sell you any pile of junk. and of course thats exactly what happens in a certain number of cases


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

.....or make up.....


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

...or bags.....

I could go on.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

screenman said:


> I think that is not just a female specific point.


Agreed, but I suspect that women are more likely to get the 'customer doesn't really know what's best for them' treatment than men are. I could be wrong...


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Yes. I expect it is, but it seems even worse when there are only men there, and your thinking that they will think your a muppet and they will, be able to sell you any pile of junk. and of course thats exactly what happens in a certain number of cases


 Why are you so worried about what they think ? You are the customer, you are paying their wages make sure they know it, and try do some homework before you enter, you may be pleasantly surprised by the reaction you get.


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## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Agreed, but I suspect that women are more likely to get the 'customer doesn't really know what's best for them' treatment than men are. I could be wrong...


I refer you to the above post.
If you enter on the defensive you ve no chance. To be fair I think if you lack knowledge you are likely to be taken for a ride be it female or male.


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## Spinney (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> I refer you to the above post.
> If you enter on the defensive you ve no chance.


I, and I imagine you, have enough knowledge and self-confidence not to enter on the defensive etc.

This is not necessarily the case for all women (or all men, for that matter).


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## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Why are you so worried about what they think ? You are the customer, you are paying their wages make sure they know it, and try do some homework before you enter, you may be pleasantly surprised by the reaction you get.



The simple fact was I didn't know what I wanted, or what was available and in those situations it is easy to feel like an idiot totally out of my depth and comfort zone. Now, I wouldn't make the same mistakes and wouldn't accept just anything, and I would definitely do some research before even thinking of buying a bike, but as they say, hindsight is a wonderfu, thing. I wish I knew then what I know now.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> I, and I imagine you, have enough knowledge and self-confidence not to enter on the defensive etc.
> 
> This is not necessarily the case for all women (or all men, for that matter).


 yes sorry I was editing my post when you replied.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> The simple fact was I didn't know what I wanted, or what was available and in those situations it is easy to feel like an idiot totally out of my depth and comfort zone. Now, I wouldn't make the same mistakes and wouldn't accept just anything, and I would definitely do some research before even thinking of buying a bike, but as they say, hindsight is a wonderfu, thing. I wish I knew then what I know now.


 Quite so, in hindsight then do you think the problem arose because of being a novice or female ?

[ I bet the answer will be a female novice]


----------



## Spinney (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> yes sorry I was editing my post when you replied.


We agree then!


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Agreed, but I suspect that women are more likely to get the 'customer doesn't really know what's best for them' treatment than men are. I could be wrong...


Exactly as in say the motor trade or consumer electronics (or other areas that men think women don't understand). Staff should try to be helpful if *customers* (of either gender) have limited knowledge and not take advantage to say shift whatever crap has been lying around for too long even if it isn't what they actually want/need/should buy

Second rant over


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> We agree then!


 Well, er, no actualy.


----------



## welsh dragon (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Quite so, in hindsight then do you think the problem arose because of being a novice or female ?
> 
> [ I bet the answer will be a female novice]



Probably a bit of both. Me being a novice and the salesman automatically thinking I only want a hybrid.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Exactly as in say the motor trade or consumer electronics (or other areas that men think women don't understand). Staff should try to be helpful if *customers* (of either gender) have limited knowledge and not take advantage to say shift whatever crap has been lying around for too long even if it isn't what they actually want/need/should buy
> 
> Second rant over


 It doesn't work like that though, sales are paid to sell stuff especially the crap ! The good stuff sells itself. Jeez.


----------



## screenman (13 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Yes. I expect it is, but it seems even worse when there are only men there, and your thinking that they will think your a muppet and they will, be able to sell you any pile of junk. and of course thats exactly what happens in a certain number of cases


As I said not female specific even though it may seem so to you.


----------



## nickyboy (13 May 2014)

I was trying to think of a mainstream sport where the women's version is as popular if not more so than the men's as a spectator sport, and thus marketing/advertising opportunity.

Tennis
Golf to a lesser extent


I wonder what it is about tennis that has led to the women's version being at least as popular as the men's? They seem to have got it just right. Massive interest, massive audiences, massive money. But then you look at the other sports; football, cricket, cycling etc. l only other major sports I can think of are athletics and swimming with high profile women's versions. But there's not much money in either of those anyway.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> It doesn't work like that though, sales are paid to sell stuff especially the crap ! The good stuff sells itself. Jeez.


I don't believe that is the case based on personal experiences of a certain ilk of salesman...


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

nickyboy said:


> I was trying to think of a mainstream sport where the women's version is as popular if not more so than the men's as a spectator sport, and thus marketing/advertising opportunity.
> 
> Tennis
> Golf to a lesser extent
> ...


 Equestrian.

My other sport... and you think women are taken advantage of in cycling, you ain't seen nothing.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Women's swimming is probably as popular, ditto gymnastics

Prefer the men's versions, again probably not driven by a love of the sport


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> I don't believe that is the case based on personal experiences of a certain ilk of salesman...


 You'll have to elaborate.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> And it's the only sport I can think of where the sex of the rider (and the horse) is irrelevant.


 Indeed, however it is prohibitive to many for other reasons.
Which many would regard as unfair in a similar vein though not based on sex.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> You'll have to elaborate.


I would rather not but involved one of the two I singled out previously


----------



## Spinney (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Well, er, no actualy.


Oh well, I've obviously misunderstood. Never mind...


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Indeed, however it is prohibitive to many for other reasons.
> Which many would regard as unfair in a similar vein though not based on sex.



Most sports are to a degree elitist until you get to the top of your game and sponsorship roles in

I would think football is actually the one that is least so (although you may still need a parent to ferry you around and what not)

The horsey stuff must be the worst due to the cost of actually having the horse! Along with yachting and serious motorsport.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

Far to involved to go into here, but not having a clue and having a child interested in eqestrian is a minefield.

Not only is it expensive but dangerous as well, the surest way to get fleeced I know of.

Edit; after fleecing hubby that is, Now how much was that dressage saddle I wanted ?

Smile.


----------



## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

nickyboy said:


> I was trying to think of a mainstream sport where the women's version is as popular if not more so than the men's as a spectator sport, and thus marketing/advertising opportunity.
> 
> Tennis
> Golf to a lesser extent
> ...


Tennis is an example of the problem. The best paid players are not the best players, but the most attractive ones.

With women's sport (generally) it's sex that sells.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Tennis is an example of the problem. The best paid players are not the best players, but the most attractive ones.
> 
> With women's sport (generally) it's sex that sells.


 Billy Jean and Martina were attractive ? OMG.


----------



## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> And it's the only sport I can think of where the sex of the rider (and the horse) is irrelevant.



There's another one: shooting. And that's when it gets interesting ....

Shooting used to be open in the olympics, so men and women competed against each other. In 1976 a woman got a silver. It was only a matter of time before a woman beat all the men and got a gold. Obviously such a disaster must be avoided! By 1984, they split shooting into separate men's and women's competitions.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Maybe if you like that sort of thing

Certainly not the case with the men, Nadal, Murray, Sampras, McEnroe 

(OK Federer is cute and has luverly legs)


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> There's another one: shooting. And that's when it gets interesting ....
> 
> Shooting used to be open in the olympics, so men and women competed against each other. In 1976 a woman got a silver. It was only a matter of time before a woman beat all the men and got a gold. Obviously such a disaster must be avoided! By 1984, they split shooting into separate men's and women's competitions.


 Why has it not been done in equestrian ?


----------



## nickyboy (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> And it's the only sport I can think of where the sex of the rider (and the horse) is irrelevant.



motorsport?

But on the basis of my definition of sport being: if you can do it smoking a pipe it isn't a sport......motorsport ain't a sport


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Why has it not been done in equestrian ?


Cos of Princess Anne innit. Can't upset the Royals

Queen likes the geegees hence women are allowed to race against the boys (no male that size is really a man)


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Cos of Princess Anne innit. Can't upset the Royals


 She don't take no shoot of her men !


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Too bloody right, expect Zara has her baldy rugby bloke cowering too!


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

..neither does her mum for that matter.


----------



## s7ephanie (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> My point being that judging how well women are catered for in cycle shops by looking at the number of step-through bikes on sale is not very instructive. The only step-through bikes I see being ridden are being used by old people, who make up a very small percentage of the cycling public. Most women I know would sneer at the idea of riding a step-through.
> 
> I take your general point about the way female cyclists are treated as a bit of an afterthought in some places............but I would say that I think enormous strides are being made.


OLD people !!!!!!


----------



## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Billy Jean and Martina were attractive ? OMG.


Oh, sorry. I was limiting it to this century. 

Currently Maria Sharapova is ranked number 7, but is the highest earner. I wonder why?


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

Big tits and long legs?


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Oh, sorry. I was limiting it to this century.
> 
> Currently Maria Sharapova is ranked number 7, but is the highest earner. I wonder why?


 Oh are they not still playing ? Just goes to show how interesting it is I suppose.


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Big tits and long legs?


You called !
Never got me anywhere.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> A bit OT, but where are all the car sales places selling women-specific cars? It's very annoying when you're smaller than the average person, because trying to find a car that isn't designed for an average male driver is almost impossible. Just saying.


Or not a car bigger than a city car with any oomph...


----------



## jefmcg (13 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Why has it not been done in equestrian ?


No idea, but women were first allowed to compete in 1952, and immediately someone got silver. Different era, different sporting association. Hard to say. I personally hate the olympics (yeah, I know. Sorry), so I am not up to date with the intricacies of the different sporting associations that are involved.

(It would not surprise me that men involved with shooting are more afraid of being "beaten by a girl" than male equestrians)


----------



## Shadowfax (13 May 2014)

[nothing quite like a riding crop across a bit of male flesh]

On another note I always get him to test the electric fencing to see if its on, (I know it is) it keeps him on his toes !


----------



## classic33 (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> A bit OT, but where are all the car sales places selling women-specific cars? It's very annoying when you're smaller than the average person, because trying to find a car that isn't designed for an average male driver is almost impossible. Just saying.


Are there female specific cars made by any of the major manufacturers?
Same rule would also apply to men who are shorter than the average height.


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

classic33 said:


> Are there female specific cars made by any of the major manufacturers?
> Same rule would also apply to men who are shorter than the average height.


Fiat 500? Micra convertible? Audi TT? MX5? Mini?


----------



## classic33 (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> *Fiat 500?* Micra convertible? *Audi TT?* MX5? Mini?


Fair enough.
Fiat 500:http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/special-edition-fiat-500-pink
Audi TT: Action Man Car was based on this.
Can't post what came up for the MX5.


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## vickster (13 May 2014)

Action Man car? In a film? You mean Audi paid more than BMW and Merc for product placement?


----------



## vickster (13 May 2014)

More small and/or convertible. Pink is just one colour option


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (13 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> Ah, I see what women-specific really means ... pink.


that was my one other requirement with my new bike - not pink.... I hate pink or anything vaguely like it... it promptly ruled quite a few bikes out I can tell you


----------



## winjim (13 May 2014)

Women specific design brief: Shrink it and pink it.


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## Profpointy (13 May 2014)

for all the piss-taking, there is a serious point here. Some of the patronising in shops thing isn't entirely sexism, as you do get the Not the Nine O'Clock news hi-fi shop thing with any vaguely techie item and a possibly not well informed customer coming in to buy a "gramophone" (grandad). 

I'd also opine that the girls are on average rather less interested in pissing contests between record and dura-ace - which seems to figure in us blokes' thinking rather more - we're such shallow creatures after.all. Thus much of what goes in the till is driven by blokes who are kit oriented, and as there's arguably fewer girls in that category, there's less choice in good quality kit for the serious athlete ladies - whilst the serious athlete blokes benefit from the market fuelled by the wannabees.

Some of it might just be economics. Sales people tend to make snap judgements on customers based on stereotypes - my grandmother used to work in a jewellers and nearly blew a high value sale of a top quality gold watch by suggesting to a slightly scruffy customer that they couldn't afford it - a lesson she noted and passed on to me. 

Ultimately patronising customers is poor selling, and being sexist to customers is plain rude or worse - but then the money will go into someone else's till.

Perhaps touring bikes are more equally covered with sizing options and types - and tourists of either gender probably know what they want so outfits like Thorn or the bespoke firms whoever are not as likely to patronise their customers.


----------



## theclaud (13 May 2014)

MikeG said:


> My point being that judging how well women are catered for in cycle shops by looking at the number of step-through bikes on sale is not very instructive. The only step-through bikes I see being ridden are being used by old people, who make up a very small percentage of the cycling public. Most women I know would sneer at the idea of riding a step-through.
> 
> I take your general point about the way female cyclists are treated as a bit of an afterthought in some places............but I would say that *I think enormous strides are being made.*



I don't think I'd like to ride a bike in enormous strides, even if it does have a step-through frame.


----------



## Jon George (13 May 2014)

Crackle said:


> Cipollini


My wife just happened to look over my shoulder when I was reading this post and saw the naked pic. She would like to suggest that if men's cycling were to be conducted in that manner it might just aid their aerodynamics, but that, of course, would mean they would go past faster - which would, apparently, be a shame. 

Oh, her experience in our LBS was 'exciting' - she knew what she wanted, and she went in, pointed and said, 'That one, please.'


----------



## Shut Up Legs (13 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> Agreed, but I suspect that women are more likely to get the 'customer doesn't really know what's best for them' treatment than men are. I could be wrong...


That's my impression also, and car sales seems to have the same reputation (although I could be wrong there, knowing very little about car salesrooms). It would be nice to have more balance in the staffing of bike shops. I've only ever seen a handful of women working in bike shops, and one female bike mechanic. In fact, women are still far outnumbered by men on bikes on our roads and paths .


----------



## classic33 (13 May 2014)

vickster said:


> Action Man car? In a film? You mean Audi paid more than BMW and Merc for product placement?


 The manufacturers of Action Man(Mattel), the same one who make Barbie, paid for the rights to copy the Audi.


----------



## Binka (13 May 2014)

I wouldn't consider a step through, think they look awful.

I can quite happily bike to the pub in a minidress on my drop bar Tricross. 

I couldn't find a touring bike small enough to fit me hence why I bought a Tricross.


----------



## RedRider (13 May 2014)

theclaud said:


> I don't think I'd like to ride a bike in enormous strides, even if it does have a step-through frame.


What about bloomers?


----------



## summerdays (14 May 2014)

Well for part of my commute I decided to look at the types of bikes women were riding. Nothing scientific, and only done over the last part of my commute.

I saw:
5 women on bikes that weren't obviously women specific (by colour or step through frame), 6 if you count me
12 women on pink/purple/step through frames
5 men/lads on frames that were step through (might be slightly biased by the group of lads I meet in the morning who I suspect didn't involve a bike shop in their purchase as they are riding purple step through bikes, and drop bar bikes, making an odd assortment, but at least they are riding to school each day I guess)
1 girl on a very obvious pink step through frame (20 inch wheels) but included as she was riding on the road with her Dad who gives her instructions as they ride along (she is about 7 or 8 at a guess)

The choice for girls starts early when they are shown pink bikes. I remember having to look hard for a nice blue one, and other non girly colours when they were little. (Though I admit that choice was partially due to having the youngest a boy).


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> You should be ashamed of that. They are two wonderful strong women, and neither of them would have stooped to make a remark like that.


 Obviously you and the 3 that liked your post don't do humour, your loss.


----------



## jefmcg (14 May 2014)

Twenty-first century is when women's tennis became just about looks. 



> Do you think Bartoli's dad told her when she was little: 'You're never going to be a looker, you'll never be a Sharapova, so you have to be scrappy and fight'?


----------



## DiddlyDodds (14 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> and it would help to have a little less of this sort of throw back "humour" here



What's throw back about it, my hobbies are driving and cycling, the wife and the daughters are shopping, they go shopping at any and every opportunity, so if you want "alternative humour" i.e. an alternative to humour, you be a long time searching on here.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> You disappoint me. When Bobby Riggs dissed women's tennis, Billy Jean didn't resort to humorous cracks about how ugly he was. She thrashed him at tennis and showed him up for the pompous ar$e he, in common with many others, really was.


 Careful now you wouldn't want to patronise anybody would you ? Apparently its rife in cycle shops and womens tennis !

Wink.


----------



## swansonj (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Obviously you and the 3 that liked your post don't do humour, your loss.


I was one of the three. I do do humour, but I have this strange prejudice that humour should be, well, you know, funny?


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

There you did it again !
I like you i can see we are going to have some great fun in the future. You do do fun don't you, just an incy wincy bit ?


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

swansonj said:


> I was one of the three. I do do humour, but I have this strange prejudice that humour should be, well, you know, funny?


 I see.
[ Bet they're a barrel of laughs at party ]


----------



## swansonj (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> I see.
> [ Bet they're a barrel of laughs at party ]


Party? No, you've got me there, I can't remember the last time I went to a party - any time left over from knitting vegetarian yogurts is spent researching whether Leviticus exempts lesbians from Ramadan.


----------



## jefmcg (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Billy Jean and Martina were attractive ? OMG.





User13710 said:


> You should be ashamed of that. They are two wonderful strong women, and neither of them would have stooped to make a remark like that.





Shadowfax said:


> Obviously you and the 3 that liked your post don't do humour, your loss.



I'm completely mystified. You make they joke that two not glamorous, but famously lesbian tennis plays who are 57 and 70 are not very attractive. It's neither topical nor remotely humorous, except in a "these women are ugly" way.

Seriously, is there some subtly I am missing?


----------



## Effyb4 (14 May 2014)

I was speaking to the guy who did my bike fit about this very issue. He asked me why I hadn't bought a female specific bike. I told him that I didn't like any of the female specific bikes I had seen. He said that the manufacturers found it difficult to get it right. One year they would do pink and girly and women would say that they didn't want that and the next year they would offer more unisex looking bikes and some women would ask why there weren't any girly looking ones.

The conversation moved onto women's cycling clothing. I said that I was disappointed with the range of women's clothing in the shops (much of it being pink or purple). He said that they could only afford to have a limited range of women's clothing in the shop, because so few women bought clothing.

I have to say he was anything but condescending and listened to what I wanted from the bike fit. I couldn't have asked for better service. I did got to the bike fit on my own.


----------



## jefmcg (14 May 2014)

oh, thanks @Effyb4, back on topic!

I'd like to say, though I had a slightly negative experience at two stores, I actually visited half a dozen or more and it was mostly good. I purchased a bike I like (Giant Avail) from a shop I liked (Giant Twickenham) and am very happy. They even have a woman staff member (out of a very small staff) and host women's rides from their store, though this is not something they push, just something I noticed when I was in there one evening.


----------



## ianrauk (14 May 2014)

Look Mum No Hands in Old Street has a woman mechanic.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> I'm completely mystified. You make they joke that two not glamorous, but famously lesbian tennis plays who are 57 and 70 are not very attractive. It's neither topical nor remotely humorous, except in a "these women are ugly" way.
> 
> Seriously, is there some subtly I am missing?


I doubt you're missing anything at all here. Apart from subjects I feel strongly about, I find it perfectly possible to use humour without being tendentious.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

jefmcg said:


> I'm completely mystified. You make they joke that two not glamorous, but famously lesbian tennis plays who are 57 and 70 are not very attractive. It's neither topical nor remotely humorous, except in a "these women are ugly" way.
> 
> Seriously, is there some subtly I am missing?


 
In short ? Yes.

....... and women paid in Tennis for how they look.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> In short ? Yes.
> 
> ....... and women paid in Tennis for how they look.


Or tennis players paid by more sponsors for how they look.... Not quite the same thing.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Or tennis players paid by more sponsors for how they look.... Not quite the same thing.


 The crux of the matter at last !!!!!!!! Well Done !!!!!!
I'm not totally convinced ,6 of one and half a dozen of the other perhaps, a bit of oppurtunism maybe ?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> The crux of the matter at last !!!!!!!! Well Done !!!!!!
> I'm not totally convinced ,6 of one and half a dozen of the other perhaps, a bit of oppurtunism maybe ?


I'd have thought the crux of the matter was whether King and Navratilova were the best female players of their sport for a generation, not whether they were the most marketable or the best paid. Maybe they weren't the best players but I'm at a loss to remember the names of their betters.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> I wouldn't want to patronise anyone, no, especially by simply telling her the facts of what happened. If you feel patronised, that's not my problem.


 Hmm you don't work in a cycle shop by any chance ?

Laugh.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'd have thought the crux of the matter was whether King and Navratilova were the best female players of their sport for a generation, not whether they were the most marketable or the best paid. Maybe they weren't the best players but I'm at a loss to remember the names of their betters.


Well I think going by Grand Slam wins they were, and they were certainly paid more than Sabatini or Evert for instance.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

So if they are backward steps how much is self inflicted, by the way you can just see professional womens cycling going the same way its just a matter of time.


----------



## sazzaa (14 May 2014)

I had rubbish experiences in local bike shops when I was buying a bike. I knew exactly what I wanted (male cx) and was shown about ten bikes in total that I had no interest in. The attitude in some shops towards customers (not sure if it's just females) is awful, makes me wonder how they're still in business. Needless to say, I ended up buying online. But have since found a bike shop about 30 miles away which is good and the owner doesn't seem to talk differently to me because I'm female.


----------



## Shadowfax (14 May 2014)

sazzaa said:


> I had rubbish experiences in local bike shops when I was buying a bike. I knew exactly what I wanted (male cx) and was shown about ten bikes in total that I had no interest in. The attitude in some shops towards customers (not sure if it's just females) is awful, makes me wonder how they're still in business. Needless to say, I ended up buying online. But have since found a bike shop about 30 miles away which is good and the owner doesn't seem to talk differently to me because I'm female.


 Did you complain to the management or owner ?


----------



## sazzaa (14 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Did you complain to the management or owner ?



Nope, I just walked out in the end. And bought myself a pretty bike through the power of the internet.


----------



## vickster (14 May 2014)

It is entirely possible the manager or owner has exactly the same attitude


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Nope, I just walked out in the end. And bought myself a pretty bike through the power of the internet.


 ...and you wonder why you and others like you are in the boat you are in.


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

vickster said:


> It is entirely possible the manager or owner has exactly the same attitude


 Then again maybe they didn't or maybe it was a women but she'll never Know, because.. SHE JUST ACCEPTED IT AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT ?


----------



## sazzaa (15 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Then again maybe they didn't or maybe it was a women but she'll never Know, because.. SHE JUST ACCEPTED IT AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT ?


I took my grand elsewhere, and I don't give them my business at all now. I also tell others to shop elsewhere. That's what I did about it.


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

sazzaa said:


> I took my grand elsewhere, and I don't give them my business at all now. I also tell others to shop elsewhere. That's what I did about it.


You feel that is going to improve our 'lot' do you ?

You had oppurtunity to educate.


----------



## sazzaa (15 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> You feel that is going to improve our 'lot' do you ?


Mate we only have three small bike shops in my city and they don't hold a lot of stock. I have to go 140 miles south for a shop with a decent range. If they can't stock the male bike I was after then there's not much hope in them concentrating on female supplies. I'm not even after a female specific shop, I'm after a shop that treats customers well! Shops run by monkeys don't improve just because you have a rant at them.


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

User said:


> But not a duty to.


 Oh I see, so we will just have to wait until you lot offer us equality on a plate will we ?


----------



## sazzaa (15 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Oh I see, so we will just have to wait until you lot offer us equality on a plate will we ?


Why are you so worked up about this?


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Mate we only have three small bike shops in my city and they don't hold a lot of stock. I have to go 140 miles south for a shop with a decent range. If they can't stock the male bike I was after then there's not much hope in them concentrating on female supplies. I'm not even after a female specific shop, I'm after a shop that treats customers well! Shops run by monkeys don't improve just because you have a rant at them.


 Soon to be 2 no doubt then 1 and zero that'll improve your choice.


----------



## Shadowfax (15 May 2014)

User said:


> I am not quite sure how that flows from Sazzer not being obligated to explain why she was taking her custom elsewhere.


 You have followed the thread ?


----------



## sazzaa (15 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Soon to be 2 no doubt then 1 and zero that'll improve your choice.


If a business starts to fail, then at least they might think about treating customers better. I'm lucky if I see one other female cyclist on my commute so can understand why they gear their business towards men.


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## classic33 (15 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> You have followed the thread ?


And its gone from women in cycling to what female tennis players are paid for, now coming back on topic.


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## welsh dragon (15 May 2014)

I think attitudes of LBS and the general public and the women themselves have to change. Maybe once and if we get more women cycling and not wanting the first bike that is presented to them, then the LBS will change theyre artitude towards women, and maybe then the general public will also change they're perception of women cyclists and not treat them like a minority.


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## RedRider (15 May 2014)

My LBS has at least five women (that I can think of) working in it. I was in there Tuesday morning and both people behind the counter were women. Brixton Cycles.


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## welsh dragon (15 May 2014)

RedRider said:


> My LBS has at least five women (that I can think of) working in it. I was in there Tuesday morning and both people behind the counter were women. Brixton Cycles.



Maybe you should be telling everyone the name of this LBS shop. Are there many like that though?


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## Pat "5mph" (15 May 2014)

I'm following with interest 
Before I bought my new bike I did some research. Went for a peruse in the new Evans store in Glasgow. One salesman was not very interested, guess he didn't think a middle aged woman would spend on a carbon fancy model.
Probably sussed me when I asked for a triple 
Even suggested an orange bike - orange the colour, not the MB make 
The other salesman was more helpful, problem was he thought a bike with gearing that suited his girlfriend would suit me.
Ended up buying in a privately owned shop, the son of the owner listened, did not have exactly what I wanted but modified the specs of another model in stock.
The experience was not nearly as stressful as dealing with builders.


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## hobbitonabike (16 May 2014)

My LBS has always been fantastic. Friendly, non patronising and recently has added a womens section which I mentally spend thousands in everytime I visit!! I feel like I can ask them anything without being made to feel like a stupid woman.


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