# Going through red lights



## bobcycle (24 Jul 2006)

When I go for a ride with my friend he doesnt stop at red lights. I always have to pedal faster to catch him up and he doesnt understand why I stop. I tell him its the law, but he says hes never been run over so I might as well go through them.

I would make it easier because I wouldnt have to pedal hard to catch him up, but I dont think I should start doing it.

Does anyone else go through red lights?


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## Serenity (9 Aug 2006)

I try not to. I always make sure it's clear first (of course). Wouldn't want anything to happen to my bike! hee hee


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## Tri-Chris (21 May 2007)

thats a hard 1!
I dont like to but when its 4:30 in the morning
and theres noone in sight and you know you're 
right... it sure is tempting.

Nah I don't like to.


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## Keith Oates (6 Jul 2007)

Going through red lights is a mugs game IMO, you only have to be hit once and there is no turning back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Yorkshireman (6 Jul 2007)

It`s against the law (like speeding etc), and God kills a tiny fluffy kitten every time someone jumps a red   .


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## Lefire (6 Jul 2007)

we are responsable cyclist and trying to get more people involved in both the leisure enjoyment or the more passionate racer.

IMO I think you should stop at the red light and not bother to catch you friend up who jumps the lights. Either he will slow down and wait for you and then eventually get the message to stop jumping them or get himself knocked off. 
Hopefully it will be the former rather than the latter.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Jul 2007)

I expect drivers to treat me well on th eroads...so it is only fair that i ride withing th elaw....not to mention that it's bloody dangerous to jump the lights


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## Jack (6 Jul 2007)

If there is a red pedestrian light (so no turnings on or off), everyone has clearly crossed, and I don't want to lose all my momentum, I might shoot it, yeah. Other than that, no.


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## graham56 (6 Jul 2007)

Don`t do it you`ll end up in court or in hospital one of these days. Remember it`s against the law whether on 2 wheels or 4.


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## Big Bren (7 Jul 2007)

I don't do it for two reasons - primarily it's stupid and dangerous. Secondly, it would knock me off the moral high ground, which I like to occupy when berating motorists for _their_ stupidity.

Everytime a cyclist jumps a red light, several motorists have their prejudices against us reinforced.

Bren


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## Blue (7 Jul 2007)

I never jump red lights - for the reasons already outlined by Bren.


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## col (7 Jul 2007)

I have lifted my leg over and gone round the path when no ones walking before,as if im scooting the bike,but never red lighted for the reasons already given.


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## punkypossum (7 Jul 2007)

The only ones I jump are the ones that don't get activated by anything lighter than a car. There is a few round here that won't change if I'm on my bike or my scooter in the evening/at night when there is no other traffic. I still end up standing there for a couple of minutes hoping it might happen every time, although I should know by now they just won't change...


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## WindyRob (7 Jul 2007)

as with the other posters i don't as a rule RLJ but there are some (most) lights that don't recognise that i'm there and so keep letting the other lanes go and i have to sit there like a mug, when this happens i normally press the pedestrian crossing button and when the green man flashes nip across.... am i wrong? i don't think so  

Windy


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## col (7 Jul 2007)

Nice one,never thought of that


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## piedwagtail91 (8 Jul 2007)

never go throught them because it's against the law and if you do get knocked off and injured you have no cliam as i doubt any insurance cover you do have will be invalid.you'll also have to stump up any costs your actions have caused.


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## Danny (8 Jul 2007)

Oh good a "is it OK to jumpg red lights" thread already - just like old times on C+.

We just need a helmet thread to really get people going. In fact if I were being mischeaveous I might point out that in my experience most of the people who jump red lights are non-helmet wearers.


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## alecstilleyedye (8 Jul 2007)

Dannyg said:


> Oh good a "is it OK to jumpg red lights" thread already - just like old times on C+.
> 
> We just need a helmet thread to really get people going. In fact if I were being mischeaveous I might point out that in my experience most of the people who jump red lights are non-helmet wearers.



ahem

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=199


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## Danny (8 Jul 2007)

Silly me, I should have known it would have started already


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## radger (9 Jul 2007)

> I note that this one hasn't tempted Theo over yet.



SHH!

He'll hear you. Well, not hear, but you know what I mean. I hope never to have to see one of his pompous rants again.


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## domtyler (9 Jul 2007)

Don't worry everyone, I have PMed Theo, he should be along shortly!


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## TheDoctor (9 Jul 2007)

When I was in 'That London' for the tour on Saturday, I saw 2 cyclists RLJ (well, technically it was the same one twice!), about a dozen cars, a few motorbikes and 5 taxis. Oh, and a bus. Which wasn't wearing a helmet.  

That was on the ride from Kings Cross to Hyde Park and back. The thing I found most disturbing, though, was a queue of about a hundred yards for a bacon roll.


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## Danny (10 Jul 2007)

Has anyone noticed that the OP for this thread was actually *24 July 2006*, and there was only one response until CP+ers joined nearly a year later.

I suspect the originator of the post has had a bit of a shock about the delayed reation.


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## ibren (10 Jul 2007)

*RED LIGHT JUMPERS*

why do it ??? so you gain a couple of mins, and when you get twatted ???? remember a knock isn.t just for Christmas 
it's the law, we all know how hard it is already on the roads so why take added risks and confirm steriotypes?


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## andy_wrx (10 Jul 2007)

It's just a selfish 'I don't give a sh*t about anyone else' attitude.

Do it in a car, there's a chance that a camera will catch you and you'll get a fine through the post. 
Do it on a bike though, no number plate, very little chance of being caught. So so many people do it.

It's like nipping onto the pavement to cut round queuing traffic.

It's illegal, it's wrong, it's selfish.

It also encourages drivers to resent all cyclists because of such behaviour.


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## beanzontoast (11 Jul 2007)

I have been known to get off my bike, push it through the red light, get back on and cycle away.

And no, I was never a Boy Scout!


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## Cab (11 Jul 2007)

WindyRob said:


> as with the other posters i don't as a rule RLJ but there are some (most) lights that don't recognise that i'm there and so keep letting the other lanes go and i have to sit there like a mug, when this happens i normally press the pedestrian crossing button and when the green man flashes nip across.... am i wrong? i don't think so



When the lights have been implemented in such a way as to exclude cyclists from making progress, you've got little choice. All you can do is go when you can safely do so.


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## Cab (11 Jul 2007)

andy_wrx said:


> It's just a selfish 'I don't give a sh*t about anyone else' attitude.
> 
> Do it in a car, there's a chance that a camera will catch you and you'll get a fine through the post.
> Do it on a bike though, no number plate, very little chance of being caught. So so many people do it.



I often see Plod in Cambridge warning, even fining cyclists for things like RLJ'ing, going the wrong way down a one way street, etc. I've never seen a motorist pulled up for doing such a thing. I've never heard of a motorist being done for it in this town.



> It's like nipping onto the pavement to cut round queuing traffic.
> 
> It's illegal, it's wrong, it's selfish.
> 
> It also encourages drivers to resent all cyclists because of such behaviour.



I entirel agree with you on those points.


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## Cab (11 Jul 2007)

> I've seen plenty of motorists in Birmingham stopped by the plod for going through red lights. And I've also seen cameras flash them even more.



I'd love to see that here. I can pretty much guarantee at any junction I'll see a motorist jump a red light. Every day, unless the road is completely dead. You know the score, light changes amber, cars accelerate, first two go through at amber the next one/two at red.



> I've never seen a cyclist stopped for RLJing.



I've seen it here in Cambridge once in a while, but nothing like often enough. Far more common for cyclists to be stopped going the wrong way down a one way street, for not having lights, etc. I do approve of that, but I feel that a more productive use of police time would be to go after the people committign offenses using more damaging modes of transport; a cyclist on a well lit city street at night poses less of a risk than a motorist speeding on the same road, for example.



> I was in a car in London once and we got stopped because my mate was too busy chatting to notice the red light. We tried to avoid getting in when he was behind the wheel.



Can't blame you


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## orkneyblues (11 Jul 2007)

I ride in Orkney, there are no traffic lights in Orkney at all, however, out for a ride last week with my mate, we came across a set of tempory traffic lights for road works. The road was dead quiet, not even a tractor, and I was not going to stop at the red light :?: untill I noticed a solitary cyclist waiting patiently at the light, he was a young kid acting very responsible and I could not then jump the light, setting what I knew was a bad example to our young cyclists. Another lesson learned for me.


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## Fab Foodie (11 Jul 2007)

orkneyblues said:


> I ride in Orkney, there are no traffic lights in Orkney at all, however, out for a ride last week with my mate, we came across a set of tempory traffic lights for road works. The road was dead quiet, not even a tractor, and I was not going to stop at the red light :?: untill I noticed a solitary cyclist waiting patiently at the light, he was a young kid acting very responsible and I could not then jump the light, setting what I knew was a bad example to our young cyclists. Another lesson learned for me.



Orkneyblues..you're a top bloke, setting a good example is the right way.

I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
It's not that difficult to stop at reds.


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## Pista Weasel (12 Jul 2007)

> I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
> It's not that difficult to stop at reds.



Pharisaical blather; find something more important to get "hacked-off" with.


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## Cab (12 Jul 2007)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
> It's not that difficult to stop at reds.



I agree with all of that. But I still think that the amount of hot air expelled by motorists on this topic is way out of proportion to the risks of red light jumping by cyclists. Almost any discussion on any cycle related issue that involves non-cyclists will end up being subverted to RLJ'ing by the motorist.


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## chris42 (12 Jul 2007)

just don't.


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## Rhythm Thief (13 Jul 2007)

I don't, unless it's 3 am and the lights don't change for a solitary cyclist and no one else is awake for miles. If anyone's approaching in a car, I'll wait and let them change the lights for me so I can go through on green. But I'm not hanging around like a lemon, getting steadily later for work, until a car happens to show up.
At more normal times, with plenty of traffic around, no.


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## HJ (14 Jul 2007)

A red light means STOP and so you should. People jumping red lights should have their means of transport taken away and crushed, be it car or bike


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## Yorkshireman (14 Jul 2007)

Seem to get a large number of motorists in and around Lincoln doing the`amber gambler` routine to the extent that there are many times 4 or 5 cars going through after the lights are red (not hanging about either) and cross traffic has to wait for them. Conversely I don`t see many cyclists doing the same, occasionally a cyclist will sort of `amble` through before the lights go green. We seem to get quite a few cyclists on the footpaths, but there has been a fair amount of `converting` (white lines/pictures of bikes in various arrangements painted on the footpath) so I suppose that could confuse the population somewhat.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Jul 2007)

Cab said:


> Fab Foodie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
> ...



This is true, but we keep passing them the same old ammunition to chuck at us and are annoyed when we are all tarred with the same "lycra-lout" brush...
We could on the other hand get our own house in order before we expect other road-users to.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Jul 2007)

Pista Weasel said:


> > I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
> > It's not that difficult to stop at reds.
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure you could find something more "important" to respond with...


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## slow down (14 Jul 2007)

Saw someone today just outside Wolverhampton on the busy A41 - all the gear on a decent looking Giant, straight through a red at a busy 5 way junction. It just pees me off that the odd one ends up giving all cyclists a bad reputation.


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## gbyers (14 Jul 2007)

Fab Foodie said:


> Pista Weasel said:
> 
> 
> > > I'm totally hacked-off with RLJ'ing cyclist, they're a menace a hazard and their selfish ignorant ways make life worst for the rest of us.
> ...



Word of the week competition - entries now closed.

Jeez


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## Fab Foodie (14 Jul 2007)

gbyers said:


> Fab Foodie said:
> 
> 
> > Pista Weasel said:
> ...


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## Pista Weasel (18 Jul 2007)

Fab Foodie said:


> gbyers said:
> 
> 
> > Fab Foodie said:
> ...


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## Fab Foodie (19 Jul 2007)

Pista Weasel said:


> Fab Foodie said:
> 
> 
> > gbyers said:
> ...


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## sykes (19 Jul 2007)

ahhhhh now it feels like home a good old fashioned RLJ thread. :?: 

So far feels a bit more civilized than the c+ ones few more bloody minded RLJers need i think?  
has he who is not mentioned found this forum yet?

Not a RLJer myself don't get it think it's a stupid thing to do!


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## Andy 71 (20 Jul 2007)

RLJers really get on my nerves. I've said my piece on this issue before, so I'll spare everyone. I doubt my views differ from other anti-RLJers

The bottom line is keep your mince pies peeled, and that if on your approach you see the amber in time pull on those anchors.

It's entirely another thing in my view to see a red and make a concious decision to ignore it and ride on through.


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## Andy 71 (20 Jul 2007)

beanzontoast said:


> I have been known to get off my bike, push it through the red light, get back on and cycle away.
> 
> And no, I was never a Boy Scout!



I do that sometimes when there are roadworks. 

It's quite legit to wheel your bike on the pavement and remount past the obstruction. What you don't do is ride on the pavement. That just antagonises people.

On the road, you are a vehicle and should behave as such. On the pavement, you are pedestrian and as the term suggests, you should be walking.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (24 Jul 2007)

bobcycle said:


> ...but he says hes never been run over so I might as well go through them.



When I play Russian Roulette I like to try and get complete strangers to play by saying that 'I haven't been shot yet so it must be okay'....

... is this the same sort of logic???


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## Tynan (24 Jul 2007)

you can't equate the danger of a cyclist going through a red light with good observation with someone gunning a ton of car through the lights with no observation, seen it so many times, a lot more alarming on a scooter where you can pull away quickly at lights

I jump some simple junctions but so many crossroad aren't setup to consider cyclists, I wait for ages at some while it's clearly perfectly safe for cyclists to cross for two thirds of the time, I see exactly why so many cyclists do ride through


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## Tynan (24 Jul 2007)

deedy, a bit hard to gun a bike though and only a madman takes their bike across a junction against the lights without looking, there's apparent deadly accident lurking

we've all seen people fling their cars through on a regular basis, the worse they're looking at is an expensive accident, less so if they're uninsured and illegal


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## Elmer Fudd (24 Jul 2007)

orkneyblues said:


> I ride in Orkney, there are no traffic lights in Orkney at all, however, out for a ride last week with my mate, we came across a set of tempory traffic lights for road works. The road was dead quiet, not even a tractor, and I was not going to stop at the red light  untill I noticed a solitary cyclist waiting patiently at the light, he was a young kid acting very responsible and I could not then jump the light, setting what I knew was a bad example to our young cyclists. Another lesson learned for me.



I do the same as a pedestrian, get to zebra crossing, road is empty so go to cross, then spot mommy with the bairn across t'other side patiently waiting for the green man, so I wait as well. Slows me down (quite a while for the crossing by my house) but gives me a good feeling that I aint setting a bad example


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## TonyT (24 Jul 2007)

bobcycle said:


> When I go for a ride with my friend he doesnt stop at red lights. I always have to pedal faster to catch him up and he doesnt understand why I stop. I tell him its the law, but he says hes never been run over so I might as well go through them.
> 
> I would make it easier because I wouldnt have to pedal hard to catch him up, but I dont think I should start doing it.
> 
> Does anyone else go through red lights?



If you ride with your friend in London would you do me a favour and ask your friend not to, please? If I'm sat at a red light and your mate sails through, antagonising drivers in the process (I know it does, I drive as well as cycle), I don't want the next cyclist these drivers see to be me thanks.

Ta in advance.


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## Tynan (24 Jul 2007)

if he was the only one, fine

cars jump lights too and it's far more dangerous and anti social when they do it

let alone the third or more driving without insurance, tax, licence, MOT etc etc


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## Arch (24 Jul 2007)

Elmer Fudd said:


> I do the same as a pedestrian, get to *zebra* crossing, road is empty so go to cross, then spot mommy with the bairn across t'other side patiently waiting for the green man, so I wait as well. Slows me down (quite a while for the crossing by my house) but gives me a good feeling that I aint setting a bad example



<pedant> Pelican or toucan, not zebra. Zebra, you can cross when you like (within reason to allow traffic to stop for you) </pedant>

BTW, there are special ones for horse riders in some places, they're called Pegasus crossings. Although Pegasus would have just flapped over...


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## TonyT (24 Jul 2007)

Tynan said:


> if he was the only one, fine
> 
> cars jump lights too and it's far more dangerous and anti social when they do it
> 
> let alone the third or more driving without insurance, tax, licence, MOT etc etc



Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## stephenb (24 Jul 2007)

I was knocked off my bike a couple of weeks ago by an RLJing cyclist. Black and blue, put my back & hip out and completely screwed up a couple of weeks training for my LeJog next month. If you RLJ like that (flat out through a busy intersection in rush hour) I reckon you forfeit any right to bleat about other road users.


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## Tynan (24 Jul 2007)

stephenb said:


> I was knocked off my bike a couple of weeks ago by an RLJing cyclist. Black and blue, put my back & hip out and completely screwed up a couple of weeks training for my LeJog next month. If you RLJ like that (flat out through a busy intersection in rush hour) I reckon you forfeit any right to bleat about other road users.



yes indeed, bang out of order

better than being hit by a car though yeah?


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## Arch (25 Jul 2007)

> 1. I do wish they hadn't given these animal names to crossings. You want to try explaining the differences to a five-year-old, with the sharp logic of a five-year-old.
> 
> 2.Arch, I tihnk I may have already mentioned this, but there is a new footbridge over the River Severn at Hampton Loade (along the route of the Severn Valley Railway). It's fantastic for bikes and feet. They even have concrete platforms at either side, rather like the rostrum that olympic winners stand on, so you can get on and off your horse easily. I was most impressed. Unfortunately they seem to have discriminated against donkey riders.



1. Well, zebra, pegasus and toucan are logical enough: respectively, black and white stripes, mythical horse, and made for two sorts of traffic - "two can" cross...

Pelican, though, that's tougher. and aren't some known as Puffins? Dunno why. I feel some Google research coming on..

2. If you need a step to get on your donkey, I guess you just use the first step of the rostrum? But most donkeys are quite low slung - even I might get on one without a block... 

I expect I've told this story before, but when the Romans bred mules, they wanted the donkey sire to be crossed with as big a mare as possible for a big mule. Donkeys only being a bit short, they used to build ramps for them to... ahem... reach the mare.


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## mickle (25 Jul 2007)

I expect I've told this story before, but when the Romans bred mules, they wanted the donkey sire to be crossed with as big a mare as possible for a big mule. Donkeys only being a bit short, they used to build ramps for them to... ahem... reach the mare.



Now thats interesting!


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## Arch (25 Jul 2007)

OK, mystery solved - they're acronyms...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelican_crossing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_crossing

Ever heard of the Panda crossing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panda_crossing

I hadn't. Interesting stuff about the fact that when signs originally said "Don't Cross" it infringed the pedestrian's legal right of way... can't see why it was called a Panda though, unless it was with the foresight that it would be rare and unsuccessful at proliferating...

Finally, anyone ever seen a Tiger crossing, mentioned in the links at the end? I didn't know they existed. Are there any?


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## col (25 Jul 2007)

Finally, anyone ever seen a Tiger crossing, mentioned in the links at the end? I didn't know they existed. Are there any?

Yeah i saw one of these the other day when he was crossing from the green to the next tee


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## Ade Osman (5 Aug 2007)

I could do with another bonnet mascot on the front of my Artic!.....It will only be a matter of time before it happens!


Ade


A cyclist and a truck driver, who gives bikes as wide a berth as possible, but has no time for jerk off's!!!!


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## HJ (7 Aug 2007)

Ade Osman said:


> I could do with another bonnet mascot on the front of my Artic!.....It will only be a matter of time before it happens!



It'll serve the bugger right too  

RLJ, don't do it...


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## Tynan (8 Aug 2007)

there's lights and lights, I generally roll through ped crossing if there's no peds on them, I don't do proper junctions but the amount of time when some junctions are utterly clear of any traffic at all, I quite understand why some cyclists do ride through them


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## trustysteed (8 Aug 2007)

some people are incredibly paranoid.

if i see a car driver jump a red light, i don't automatically think all car drivers are self-gratification artists. if i see a pedestrian cross the road without pressing the button at a pedestrian crossing, i don't think all pedestrians are self-gratification artists.

i do not believe that all car drivers who see a cyclist jump a red light thinks that all cyclists are self-gratification artists.

and if you think that they do, you need to stop being so insecure, worry about your own cycling, no-one elses, and get a ****ing life and stop moaning about it, ffs.


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## skwerl (8 Aug 2007)

trustysteed said:


> some people are incredibly paranoid.
> 
> if i see a car driver jump a red light, i don't automatically think all car drivers are self-gratification artists. if i see a pedestrian cross the road without pressing the button at a pedestrian crossing, i don't think all pedestrians are self-gratification artists.
> 
> ...



peds can cross when they like. there's no law stopping them.

It's hard not to believe that all motorists think that way about cyclists when all you get from ranting taxi drivers and the like is, "you lot are self-gratification artists, you all jump red lights". It's the first comment out of the mouth on anyone you dare to comment to about their recent actions nearly leaving you in a pool of blood on the road. That or the old "road tax" chestnut.


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## sykes (8 Aug 2007)

i agree it is always the first thing people say when they find out you cycle i had one cabbie going on about it the other day he also came up with a gem of a solution to the fact that allot of the cyclists break the law he suggested that we all have to wear bibs with a license number on it so we could be prosecuted oh and that we should only be allowed to cycle at 5mph muppet decided not to tip that time??!!


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## Arch (8 Aug 2007)

sykes said:


> i agree it is always the first thing people say when they find out you cycle i had one cabbie going on about it the other day he also came up with a gem of a solution to the fact that allot of the cyclists break the law he suggested that we all have to wear bibs with a license number on it so we could be prosecuted oh and that we should only be allowed to cycle at 5mph muppet decided not to tip that time??!!




OT, but if a taxi driver says something you object to, are you justified in telling them to drop you straight away and just pay for the journey so far (given that you'll have 'hired' them for a specific trip)? Obviously, you'd have to have time to then get another taxi, or walk or whatever... But an instant reaction might show them what they've done, better than just no tip...

I hardly ever get cabs, so I don't know if there are 'rules' about this sort of thing...


And yes, when people find out I cycle, they often come out with the stuff about red lights, and the cycling on the pavement. Very annoying.


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## sykes (8 Aug 2007)

nah in the mind of someone like that they would just think you an idiot for storming out and cement there view of cyclists, if i felt he was being offensive and not just expressing his opinion i would say it to him straight what i thought of him and see if he wanted to drop me off early?


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## gpx001 (8 Aug 2007)

As a rule I don't ride through red lights, the only exception being those bloomin temporary things that take an age to change and you can clearly see there ain't no one coming the other way.


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## chris42 (8 Aug 2007)

Just Don't Do It.!!

Sorry but...
1) against the law
2) dangerous
3) gives us all a bad name
4) make you no better than the prat who runs the red light in a car and kills someone.

THINK.


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## Beckenham (15 Aug 2007)

I'm new to cycling but have been driving for years and it used to really p*ss me off when I saw cyclists going through red lights. I don't do it on my bike. Tell your mate he's being a twat and giving cyclists a bad name. 

I had a lorry almost run me off the road the other day and an old bloke nearly drive into me. The lorry driver tried to overtake me when there was a traffic island coming up. I later caught up with him and "expressed my feelings in a forthright manner". I could tell the old guy hadn't seen me and just got out of his way. He still didn't see me!


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## chris42 (15 Aug 2007)

Yes just DON'T GO THROUGHT RED LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVER.

If I see someone doing it I make a point of telling them what a twat they are. Even if this means going in a direction I wasn't going in!


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## alecstilleyedye (15 Aug 2007)

what annoys me about the rlj debate is that rlj is used as a blanket term which can cover anything from being slightly ahead of the line whilst stopped at the lights (which i do daily at one set of lights, in my experience far safer than waiting behind the cars as the one behind will _always_ race to get to the junction before i do) right through to sailing through a major intersection with little regard for the safety of others or themselves.

so do i rlj? yes, but no. but whatever, i ride safely with the safety of other road users put before my own convenience (and my safety over their convenience), and i'll do that even if it means "breaking the rules".


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## HJ (15 Aug 2007)

Tynan said:


> if he was the only one, fine
> 
> cars jump lights too and it's far more dangerous and anti social when they do it
> 
> let alone the third or more driving without insurance, tax, licence, MOT etc etc



Just because there are a few aseh0les out there, doesn't mean _you_ have to be one of them! If you want the respect of your fellow road users, try looking up the word responsibility in a dictionary, then try earning it.


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