# Cycling Bell-ends



## Scotty55 (15 Dec 2021)

The tensions between cyclists and motorists are not being helped by some of the complete bell-ends I see on my drive home at night. Dressed all in black and without any lights, but it would be the driver who was at fault if there was a collision.

This kind of behaviour makes life very difficult for the rest of us.


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## mjr (15 Dec 2021)

Was it the cyclist or the motorist who was dressed all in black without any lights? I saw plenty of both on my way home today.

Does it make life difficult? I think I slightly prefer the unlit ones to the idiots with dazzling full beams on all the time.


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## winjim (15 Dec 2021)

Blah blah pedal reflectors blah blah.


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## cougie uk (15 Dec 2021)

They're just idiots. Be grateful they're on a bike and not in a souped up Corsa.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2021)

That’s why I always wear grey


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## markemark (15 Dec 2021)

Scotty55 said:


> The tensions between cyclists and motorists are not being helped by some of the complete bell-ends I see on my drive home at night. Dressed all in black and without any lights, but it would be the driver who was at fault if there was a collision.
> 
> This kind of behaviour makes life very difficult for the rest of us.


I always cycle with lights.

Quick question, if said driver crashed into an unlit parked car, whose fault would it be?


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## Grant Fondo (15 Dec 2021)

markemark said:


> I always cycle with lights.
> 
> Quick question, if said driver crashed into an unlit parked car, whose fault would it be?


Driver, there isn't a human in the car (maybe)


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## markemark (15 Dec 2021)

Grant Fondo said:


> Driver, there isn't a human in the car (maybe)


So the driver shouldn’t crash into things on the road, even if unlit? Like parked cars, trees, signs, pedestrians…but not cyclists?


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## winjim (15 Dec 2021)

markemark said:


> I always cycle with lights.
> 
> Quick question, if said driver crashed into an unlit parked car, whose fault would it be?


Car should be parked in the direction of traffic flow and visible by reflectors.


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## Grant Fondo (15 Dec 2021)

markemark said:


> So the driver shouldn’t crash into things on the road, even if unlit? Like parked cars, trees, signs, pedestrians…but not cyclists?


Due care and attention surely? For motorists and cyclists.


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## fossyant (15 Dec 2021)

There are idiots in all walks of life and transport use. The ninjas do seem to fair better than us lit up like Xmas trees, so read into that if you want.


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## steveindenmark (16 Dec 2021)

When I go through the internet it just appears that there are an awful lot of angry people in the UK. If its not bikes and cars its people scrapping on trains and tubes because someone is not wearing a mask. It is obviously not about being infected because those complaining are actually wearing masks. I think they think the masked ones are annoyed because they are obeying the rules and wearing masks. In Denmark the masked people would move a couple of seats away from the person not wearing the mask and that would be it. No accusations, screaming or shouting or fighting. As for cars and bikes. The car drivers here know that the cyclists have the upper hand. If you knock a cyclist over in Denmark you have a problem. But we all seem to get along very well. But our football supporters are called "Roligans". Maybe its that attitude which makes life so easy here.

*Roligan* is a nickname for a supporter of the Danish national football team. Roligans are noted for being the opposite of hooligans, i.e. calm, quiet, well-mannered supporters of their team who shun unsportsmanlike behavior or violence.


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## Illaveago (16 Dec 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> When I go through the internet it just appears that there are an awful lot of angry people in the UK. If its not bikes and cars its people scrapping on trains and tubes because someone is not wearing a mask. It is obviously not about being infected because those complaining are actually wearing masks. I think they think the masked ones are annoyed because they are obeying the rules and wearing masks. In Denmark the masked people would move a couple of seats away from the person not wearing the mask and that would be it. No accusations, screaming or shouting or fighting. As for cars and bikes. The car drivers here know that the cyclists have the upper hand. If you knock a cyclist over in Denmark you have a problem. But we all seem to get along very well. But our football supporters are called "Roligans". Maybe its that attitude which makes life so easy here.
> 
> *Roligan* is a nickname for a supporter of the Danish national football team. Roligans are noted for being the opposite of hooligans, i.e. calm, quiet, well-mannered supporters of their team who shun unsportsmanlike behavior or violence.


I think you are right ! 
It could be that we are almost at breaking point with things going on . Mindless idiots wherever we look . The laws seem to be so narrow . It seems that you can be knocked off your bike by a driver gaming on a mobile phone and they would get away with it but not if they were phoning someone !  Electric scooters can be bought by anyone and should only be used on private land and not on roads or pavements . Who is going to stop them ?  We have had lockdowns yet thousands of people have been flying in and out of the country without any restrictions .  Fly tipping ! I could go on and on !


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## Tenkaykev (16 Dec 2021)

In Medieval times every Village had its idiot, but unless you traveled outside your own village you remained blissfully unaware of their existence. With the advances in communication such as rolling 24hour news, effbook and similar, the village idiots can congregate together and draw attention to themselves.


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## Alex321 (16 Dec 2021)

markemark said:


> I always cycle with lights.
> 
> Quick question, if said driver crashed into an unlit parked car, whose fault would it be?


The driver of course.

And as the OP said, it would be the driver at fault if he hit the cyclist.

Though having said that, if it was an unlit road, then a car driver parking on the carriageway without lights would have been acting illegally, just as the cyclist was by riding without lights.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Dec 2021)

The OP will be complaining about black tyres and black tarmac next.


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## mjr (16 Dec 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> When I go through the internet it just appears that there are an awful lot of angry people in the UK. If its not bikes and cars its people scrapping on trains and tubes because someone is not wearing a mask.


If you are referring to a recent widely-reported incident, then I think you will find that was a late-night weekend train and alcohol had been consumed.



> It is obviously not about being infected because those complaining are actually wearing masks. I think they think the masked ones are annoyed because they are obeying the rules and wearing masks.


I think it's because they feel the unmasked ones are increasing the risk to others, masked or not, which is what UK authorities have consistently said. So going into an enclosed space unmasked without reason is now seen by some as anti-social like drink-driving, in a way that we've still not achieved for phoney-driving. Or cycling unlit but given they seem to primarily hurt themselves, is it worth the effort?

So fair play and community spirit motivates some to confront the offenders, although taking it all the way to a fight wasn't the wisest thing to do and does rather suggest some drink-impaired decision-making.

I'm surprised if in Denmark people would take the "I'm alright Jack" approach and just move away, but you know better than me.


> [...] As for cars and bikes. The car drivers here know that the cyclists have the upper hand. If you knock a cyclist over in Denmark you have a problem.


The UK takes another step towards that next month, with a hierarchy of care added to the Highway Code, but we wait to see if the courts will support it when there's a collision.


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## Brads (16 Dec 2021)

Scotty55 said:


> The tensions between cyclists and motorists are not being helped by some of the complete bell-ends I see on my drive home at night. Dressed all in black and without any lights, but it would be the driver who was at fault if there was a collision.
> 
> This kind of behaviour makes life very difficult for the rest of us.



Yawn, how very troll.


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## simongt (16 Dec 2021)

What amuses me is the numptys who stroll into the road without bothering to look; with or without cell phone and after you've nearly collided with them, they give you the 'Why are you on the road - ?' look, assuming the near collision to be entirely YOUR fault.


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## Blue Hills (17 Dec 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> When I go through the internet it just appears that there are an awful lot of angry people in the UK.


mm - you must be looking at a pretty restricted range of the big wide internet.
there's angry folk everywhere.
Even I suspect on the danish internet.
Anyways, yep I do think there's a fair old number of cycling bell-ends around.
I see them in london.
Have had the odd altercation with some and told them that it's pretty clear that they are just gagging to be driving a souped up car.
On the other hand there are some nice white van drivers.


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## Alex321 (17 Dec 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Anyways, yep I do think there's a fair old number of cycling bell-ends around.
> I see them in london.
> Have had the odd altercation with some and told them that it's pretty clear that they are just gagging to be driving a souped up car.
> On the other hand there are some nice white van drivers.



The problem here (in both cases) is that nobody notices the ones who do everything correctly, it is the bell-ends who stand out, and because they are the ones who are noticed, the whole category gets a bad reputation.


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## simongt (18 Dec 2021)

One thing I noticed on the way home yesterday. It was about 16.00h. ish, so dusky and most cars etc. had their lights on. There were a number of cycle users without lights and wearing dark clothing weaving in and out of the cars. with the lights of the oncoming traffic, it made them even harder to see.


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## newfhouse (18 Dec 2021)

simongt said:


> One thing I noticed on the way home yesterday. It was about 16.00h. ish, so dusky and most cars etc. had their lights on. There were a number of cycle users without lights and wearing dark clothing weaving in and out of the cars. with the lights of the oncoming traffic, it made them even harder to see.


How did you know they were there?


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## simongt (18 Dec 2021)

newfhouse said:


> How did you know they were there?


Er, the fact that the otherwise steady car headlights were momentarily diappearing - !


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## newfhouse (18 Dec 2021)

simongt said:


> Er, the fact that the otherwise steady car headlights were momentarily diappearing - !


So you were aware of other road users in front of you?


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## DRM (18 Dec 2021)

simongt said:


> One thing I noticed on the way home yesterday. It was about 16.00h. ish, so dusky and most cars etc. had their lights on. There were a number of cycle users without lights and wearing dark clothing weaving in and out of the cars. with the lights of the oncoming traffic, it made them even harder to see.


What is even worse is these new bright LED car headlights, they do wreck your vision of anything else around them in the dark, pedestrians, cyclists etc


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## DRM (18 Dec 2021)

simongt said:


> Er, the fact that the otherwise steady car headlights were momentarily diappearing - !


Also it’s the split second that your eyes take to recover after being dazzled, is when ninjas dressed in dark clothing are missed, similar effect when the sun is low and gives a flashing effect as you drive past trees


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## mjr (18 Dec 2021)

DRM said:


> Also it’s the split second that your eyes take to recover after being dazzled, is when ninjas dressed in dark clothing are missed, similar effect when the sun is low and gives a flashing effect as you drive past trees


The main problem is nobbers in cars using dazzling lights, which is as illegal as the unlit nobbers of all sorts and more dangerous IMO.


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## winjim (18 Dec 2021)

DRM said:


> ninjas dressed in dark clothing


Kuroko


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## DRM (18 Dec 2021)

mjr said:


> The main problem is nobbers in cars using dazzling lights, which is as illegal as the unlit nobbers of all sorts and more dangerous IMO.


These aren’t illegal, they’re the led projector headlights that are fitted to some modern cars, they’re too bright for anyone going towards them


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## newfhouse (18 Dec 2021)

DRM said:


> Also it’s the split second that your eyes take to recover after being dazzled, is when ninjas dressed in dark clothing are missed, similar effect when the sun is low and gives a flashing effect as you drive past trees


Will more lights make you less dazzled?


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## mjr (18 Dec 2021)

DRM said:


> These aren’t illegal, they’re the led projector headlights that are fitted to some modern cars, they’re too bright for anyone going towards them


Dazzling is illegal. I don't care if they're standard equipment. I wish someone would enforce the law against them.


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## DRM (18 Dec 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Will more lights make you less dazzled?


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> The problem here (in both cases) is that nobody notices the ones who do everything correctly, it is the bell-ends who stand out, and because they are the ones who are noticed, the whole category gets a bad reputation.



Indeed all people in black clothing are getting tarred with this brush.


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## newfhouse (18 Dec 2021)

DRM said:


> View attachment 622762


I was questioning whether adding lights or reflective clothing into a situation where you are already dazzled would help or hinder.

As others have said, the solution is to stop the dazzling, not to get into an arms race.


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## Alex321 (18 Dec 2021)

newfhouse said:


> I was questioning whether adding lights or reflective clothing into a situation where you are already dazzled would help or hinder.
> 
> As others have said, the solution is to stop the dazzling, not to get into an arms race.


It is only going to hinder if your lights are also dazzling.

But it certainly won't help as much as it would when the observers were not already dazzled.


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## Tribansman (18 Dec 2021)

I'm one of those so called 'ninjas' who wear all black. I've done roughly 30,000 miles over the last three years, a lot of them commute miles in the dark.

I have been driven in to once. Just once, and that was in a streetlit area, on a roundabout where the driver who should have given way admitted to just not looking right, he was too busy assessing speed of car coming from left and working out whether he could make the gap or not. So no level of hi viz or reflectives would have prevented that.

It may just be that I'm ludicrously fortunate, or it may just be that having good lights, small reflective patches on my clothing and a non-aggressive riding style is enough.

Riders with no lights at night are obviously going to be not as easy to spot in some conditions. But the idea that hi viz/bright coloured clothing has some sort of magical effect on drivers is bullsh1t. And maybe even dangerous bullsh1t if it lulls people into a false sense of security that there's more chance they'll be spotted.

Sadly, I reckon people driving into cyclists is more likely to be the result of drivers not looking than not seeing (or a mental block where they genuinely don't 'see' because they're not looking for a bike) because the bike/rider are too dark. Or seeing and risking it, or just generally not giving a sh1t!

And where any of that's the case, no amount of hi viz or bright this or that would make a difference.


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## icowden (19 Dec 2021)

Tribansman said:


> I'm one of those so called 'ninjas' who wear all black.
> 
> It may just be that I'm ludicrously fortunate, or it may just be that having good lights, small reflective patches on my clothing and a non-aggressive riding style is enough.
> 
> And where any of that's the case, no amount of hi viz or bright this or that would make a difference.



Man who has good lights and wears reflectors says that good lights and reflectors don't make a difference?
<error>Does not compute<error>

Also - which Ninja's wear reflectors?


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## Alex321 (19 Dec 2021)

Tribansman said:


> I'm one of those so called 'ninjas' who wear all black. I've done roughly 30,000 miles over the last three years, a lot of them commute miles in the dark.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> It may just be that I'm ludicrously fortunate, or it may just be that having good lights, small reflective patches on my clothing and a non-aggressive riding style is enough.



So you aren't one of those so-called ninjas.

Wearing all black or not, you are only one of those if you also have no lights or decent reflectors.


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## Tribansman (19 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> Man who has good lights and wears reflectors says that good lights and reflectors don't make a difference?
> <error>Does not compute<error>


Reading error, try again


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## Tribansman (19 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> So you aren't one of those so-called ninjas.
> 
> Wearing all black or not, you are only one of those if you also have no lights or decent reflectors.


Fair dos, but this thread was going in the direction of again extolling the benefits of brightly coloured, hi viz clothing. My point was that decent lights are enough. People have previously commented that wearing black is asking for trouble. And I don't agree.


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## DRM (19 Dec 2021)

Tribansman said:


> Fair dos, but this thread was going in the direction of again extolling the benefits of brightly coloured, hi viz clothing. My point was that decent lights are enough. People have previously commented that wearing black is asking for trouble. And I don't agree.


As far as I’m concerned I was not extolling the benefit of hi viz, merely pointing out that any bright light that dazzles you, renders you blind for a moment, wrecking any night vision you have, putting others in danger as you can’t see them until your sight readjusts, anyone in black, not illuminated is invisible, anyone who has navigated using a map at night knows you use a light with a red filter to view the map, as this keeps your night vision functioning.
in this instance being in black with no lights IS asking for trouble


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## Oldhippy (19 Dec 2021)

I have ridden for over 40 years in cities, countryside, foreign countries and it has not once occurred to me to dress in day glo or wear a helmet. I wear dark colours most of the time but have front light, back light and obey the rules of the road. I have never been killed, hit, run over.


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## Blue Hills (19 Dec 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> I have never been killed.


Glad to hear it, though have long suspected that we have a select clique of posters from the other side.


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## simongt (19 Dec 2021)

mjr said:


> The main problem is nobbers in cars using dazzling lights,


Indee. I sometimes get this on the unlit part of my commute. Most drivers are very good at dipping, but the occasional troll obviously thinks 'it's only a bike, why should I bother.'


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## Oldhippy (19 Dec 2021)

One concession I have made recently is buying yellow eye shades to tone down the w*nkpanzer and other new cars retina burning lights. Also some cyclists have no clue how to position the front light either.


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## Arrowfoot (19 Dec 2021)

I would spot a front or rear light of a bike long long before I spot the figure on a bike in the night. No amount of bright or reflective wear is better than the lights.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Dec 2021)

I see the OP / troll hasn’t been back.


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## DaveReading (19 Dec 2021)

But you have to admire his/her planning - 400+ posts over the course of more than a year, to give us a false sense of security.


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## winjim (19 Dec 2021)

Absolute blanket fog where I was today. No legal requirement for bike lights but you know who stood out in the gloom? Cyclists dressed in black.


(Also saw Father Christmas, about twenty or so reindeer and Scooby-Doo cycling around the Hope valley but I may have been hallucinating)


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## mjr (19 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Absolute blanket fog where I was today. No legal requirement for bike lights [...]


Yes, there was. RVLR 1989 section 24(1)(a)(ii).


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## winjim (19 Dec 2021)

mjr said:


> Yes, there was. RVLR 1989 section 24(1)(a)(ii).


Nope. RVLR 1989 section 4(3)(c).


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## mjr (19 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Nope. RVLR 1989 section 4(3)(c).


Real bikes have lights bolted on.


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## winjim (19 Dec 2021)

mjr said:


> Real bikes have lights bolted on.


So? You're still not required to light it in the fog.


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## mjr (19 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> So? You're still not required to light it in the fog.


How do you figure? The exception you cited does not apply if they're fitted.


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## winjim (19 Dec 2021)

mjr said:


> How do you figure? The exception you cited does not apply if they're fitted.


It's not about whether they're fitted. It's about whether they're _required_ to be fitted. What you're proposing is chaos.


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## winjim (19 Dec 2021)




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## Solocle (21 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> The driver of course.
> 
> And as the OP said, it would be the driver at fault if he hit the cyclist.
> 
> Though having said that, if it was an unlit road, then a car driver parking on the carriageway without lights would have been acting illegally, just as the cyclist was by riding without lights.


Just to note that this is incorrect. It's a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph that requires lighting, irrelevant of street lighting. See rule 249 and 250.


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## Alex321 (21 Dec 2021)

Solocle said:


> Just to note that this is incorrect. It's a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph that requires lighting, irrelevant of street lighting. See rule 249 and 250.


Oops. You are of course correct.


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## Scotty55 (22 Dec 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I see the OP / troll hasn’t been back.


I've been back plenty of times. I'd not intended this to become a trolling or argumentative thread, just letting off some steam about the difficulty of seeing a cyclist at night all in black with no lights in the dark presents to a motorist (me, in this case).

Each to his or her own.


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## Boopop (23 Dec 2021)

I'm a software developer, I play video games, I listen to BBC 6 Music, I like to cycle, I have a cat, I like to cook. Whenever I go out in to the big wide world, I'm not ambassador for any of these activities.

GROUP RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT REAL.


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## Andy_R (23 Dec 2021)

Scotty55 said:


> The tensions between cyclists and motorists are not being helped by some of the complete bell-ends I see on my drive home at night. Dressed all in black and without any lights, but it would be the driver who was at fault if there was a collision.
> 
> This kind of behaviour makes life very difficult for the rest of us.


Not having read all the way through this thread, has anyone asked the pertinent point----they were dressed in black, but you still saw them...I'm confused. Did you see them or not? If you did then does it matter what colour they were wearing? Or do you just want them to be lit up like christmas trees on the way to a rave at nr10? (a rave that never happened)


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## Alex321 (23 Dec 2021)

Andy_R said:


> Not having read all the way through this thread, has anyone asked the pertinent point----they were dressed in black, but you still saw them...I'm confused. Did you see them or not? If you did then does it matter what colour they were wearing? Or do you just want them to be lit up like christmas trees on the way to a rave at nr10? (a rave that never happened)


 I'm not sure what your point is in asking a "pertinent" (according to you) question to which the answer was clearly given in the opening post. SO for "pertinent" read "completely pointless".

You obviously wanted to make a point. You would have been better making it my not making yourself look stupid, and exaggeration to trivialise the issue doesn't help either.


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## DaveReading (24 Dec 2021)

There is only one possible response to a post that starts "Not having read all the way through this thread ..."


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## Scotty55 (24 Dec 2021)

DaveReading said:


> There is only one possible response to a post that starts "Not having read all the way through this thread ..."


I really hadn’t expected this thread to degenerate so much…. It was really just an observation that some cyclists don’t do us any favours by not being visible to other road users.


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## Tribansman (25 Dec 2021)

You're right, was a fair point, but maybe terms like ninjas not helpful in keeping it measured!

Agree that riders with no lights or reflectives don't do themselves any favours, but I think we need to be careful about encouraging or facilitating victim blaming, when the main factor that determines (or _*should*_) whether there are collisions or not is the attentiveness and competence of drivers.


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## alex_cycles (25 Dec 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Indeed all people in black clothing are getting tarred with this brush.


That will make them even darker (and smelly)


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## Illaveago (26 Dec 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> One concession I have made recently is buying yellow eye shades to tone down the w*nkpanzer and other new cars retina burning lights. Also some cyclists have no clue how to position the front light either.


I was wondering if the new automatically dipping lights may be the cause. Mind you there are also some people who will fit illegal bulbs . 65w being the maximum for road use. I came across fitting 80 w and 100 w bulbs when I worked in Halfords . I also met a taxi driver who wasn't prepared to pay for 2 new headlight bulbs and was going to drive up a motorway on main beam .


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## Badger_Boom (26 Dec 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> I have ridden for over 40 years in cities, countryside, foreign countries and it has not once occurred to me to dress in day glo or wear a helmet. I wear dark colours most of the time but have front light, back light and obey the rules of the road. *I have never been killed, hit, run over*.


My bold: there’s a whole branch of health and safety in industry that look at why that can be a very dangerous way to look at risk.


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## simongt (26 Dec 2021)

newfhouse said:


> So you were aware of other road users in front of you?


Yup. It was the pairs of oncoming bright headlights that made me aware of them - !


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2021)

Scotty55 said:


> . It was really just an observation that some cyclists don’t do us any favours by not being visible to other road users.



if they are not visible then they wouldn’t be a topic of conversation.

The only thing a driver will use a tale of a cyclist without lights for , is to excuse their extremely poor driving. The cyclist without lights didn’t cause their poor driving. If it wasn’t a tale about no lights, it’d be pavement cycling, red light jumping etc. It makes no difference, it’s just an attempt to deflect from the perpetrator’s misdemeanour, which has lead to you having a conversation with them, in the first place.


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## winjim (26 Dec 2021)

An observation from driving the other day. Dark and pouring rain so poor visibility, city driving so lots of dazzling lights. Crossed a junction ahead of a cyclist who then turned in behind me. Had on a high vis jacket but only had a helmet mounted front light. As he came closer to me, his head went out of the field of view of my mirrors so his light disappeared. A bar or fork mounted light would have remained visible. As it was it became really quite difficult to keep an eye on where he was while also concentrating on the myriad other distractions and not missing my turning. I did wonder if I should say something to him but it would probably have made me come across as a prick rather than as an attempt to be helpful.

Just something to bear in mind if you're of the helmet mounted light persuasion. The closer you get, the less apparent your presence may become.


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## DRM (26 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> An observation from driving the other day. Dark and pouring rain so poor visibility, city driving so lots of dazzling lights. Crossed a junction ahead of a cyclist who then turned in behind me. Had on a high vis jacket but only had a helmet mounted front light. As he came closer to me, his head went out of the field of view of my mirrors so his light disappeared. A bar or fork mounted light would have remained visible. As it was it became really quite difficult to keep an eye on where he was while also concentrating on the myriad other distractions and not missing my turning. I did wonder if I should say something to him but it would probably have made me come across as a prick rather than as an attempt to be helpful.
> 
> Just something to bear in mind if you're of the helmet mounted light persuasion. The closer you get, the less apparent your presence may become.


Quite a good point, also when driving in a city environment it’s very easy to miss something when trying to negotiate our increasingly difficult to navigate in cities, with lots to take in, especially if you aren’t a local, as nobody on ANY form of transport seems to have any patience whatsoever


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## Alex321 (26 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Just something to bear in mind if you're of the helmet mounted light persuasion. The closer you get, the less apparent your presence may become.



It is also actually illegal to have *only* a helmet mounted light. There must be front and rear lights attached to the bicycle. Any lights attached to the person of the cyclist must be additional lights to those required by the regulations.


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## Sniper68 (27 Dec 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> When I go through the internet it just appears that there are an awful lot of angry people in the UK. If its not bikes and cars its people scrapping on trains and tubes because someone is not wearing a mask. It is obviously not about being infected because those complaining are actually wearing masks. I think they think the masked ones are annoyed because they are obeying the rules and wearing masks. In Denmark the masked people would move a couple of seats away from the person not wearing the mask and that would be it. No accusations, screaming or shouting or fighting. As for cars and bikes. The car drivers here know that the cyclists have the upper hand. If you knock a cyclist over in Denmark you have a problem. But we all seem to get along very well. But our football supporters are called "Roligans". Maybe its that attitude which makes life so easy here.
> 
> *Roligan* is a nickname for a supporter of the Danish national football team. Roligans are noted for being the opposite of hooligans, i.e. calm, quiet, well-mannered supporters of their team who shun unsportsmanlike behavior or violence.


That wouldn't work here at all.
The UK is full of miserable,angry,on edge folk who need _something or anything _to bitch and moan about Said types just wouldn't be happy any other way
Everyone is offended by the slightest thing and their natural reaction is to vent their frustrations the only way they know how
It seems there are those outhere who will be offended if they can't find something to be offended by


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## alex_cycles (27 Dec 2021)

Sniper68 said:


> It seems there are those out there who will be offended if they can't find something to be offended by



What an offensive thing to say


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