# Brompton - how quick are they?



## Red (4 Aug 2009)

Exploring my options
Looking and liking the idea of getting a brompton do late shifts and don't fancy leaving it outside in the small wee hours of the morning

I know with folding bikes the wheels are smaller and so won't travel as fast as your normal sized bike But how quick can you travel on one compared to a standard bike 


Cheers


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## knonist (4 Aug 2009)

Red said:


> Exploring my options
> Looking and liking the idea of getting a brompton do late shifts and don't fancy leaving it outside in the small wee hours of the morning
> 
> I know with folding bikes the wheels are smaller and so won't travel as fast as your normal sized bike But how quick can you travel on one compared to a standard bike
> ...



They are very fast!


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## mickle (4 Aug 2009)

They're pretty close depending on the distance and conditions. I regularly chose the Brompton for my six mile commute from a stable of six bikes just for its convenience. It added four or five minutes to my commute but then I saved the four or five minutes locking up a posh bike at my destination. Most retailers have a demo bike, give it a go.


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## TheDoctor (4 Aug 2009)

Mine wasn't too slow. Maybe an extra 10% on my commute or so.


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## Red (4 Aug 2009)

Cheers guys, i've located a local stockist who sells them will go and pay them a visit to have a go


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## mickle (4 Aug 2009)

Wickedest. Explore the gear options, I reckon the two speed is too limited, the flat bars too uncomfortable, the regular chain-ring too big, the butterfly bars too fricking ugly. 

3spd, regular bars, low gear option, front bag, discrete frame colour, sorted. IMHO.


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## palinurus (4 Aug 2009)

On my nine mile commute: as fast as my slicked-up MTB or singlespeed hack. Slower than my geared road bike of course.

I had a 3 speed, reduced gearing (12% reduction I think, with a smaller chainring). Perfect.


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## spandex (4 Aug 2009)

mickle said:


> Wickedest. Explore the gear options, I reckon the two speed is too limited, the flat bars too uncomfortable, the regular chain-ring too big, the butterfly bars too fricking ugly.
> 
> 3spd, regular bars, low gear option, front bag, discrete frame colour, sorted. IMHO.




You would say that

Just as I would say S2 (2 speed) all the way I am so much faster on the S2 then the M3 or the P6 the gear combos just do not work for me and the bars flex to much as well.

Red if you can try them all!


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## CopperBrompton (5 Aug 2009)

As others have said, surprisingly fast. The small wheels mean they accelerate quickly, and 2-speed or 3-speed is enough gears for London.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (5 Aug 2009)

flats / descents / shallow inclines, as fast as any steel bike. uphill on long slogs, much slower, you really feel the weight. the front luggage systems do drag in the wind. but overall, i'm finding it slightly faster than my slicked out expensive mtb. but, i'm just using normal clothes and walking boots, even when i did 44 miles to / from / around hebden bridge last weekend. one thing i'd recommend if planning on longer trips - stubby bar ends on m bars. forget the flat / p bar. uncomfy flat bar and floppy p bar. i do regret not getting reduced gearing but i am saving for mountain drive.


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## mickle (5 Aug 2009)

shauncollier said:


> flats / descents / shallow inclines, as fast as any steel bike. uphill on long slogs, much slower, you really feel the weight. the front luggage systems do drag in the wind. but overall, i'm finding it slightly faster than my slicked out expensive mtb. but, i'm just using normal clothes and walking boots, even when i did 44 miles to / from / around hebden bridge last weekend. one thing i'd recommend if planning on longer trips - stubby bar ends on m bars. forget the flat / p bar. uncomfy flat bar and floppy p bar. i do regret not getting reduced gearing but i am saving for mountain drive.



My nomination for post of the month.


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## Crankarm (5 Aug 2009)

Go for the 6 spd std gearing with front touring pannier but without rear rack (too heavy and too ugly). You will get up most mountain cols with it and steam down the other side. Ditch the Brompton pedals and fit SPDs. Get the Kevlar tyres. Mine have never punctured in 7 years of ownership. As already stated fit small stubby bar ends such as Titec £11.99 or cheaper. Remove the inner brake cables and thoroughly grease, re-fit and marvel at how much better the brakes are. Don't bother with the Brompton bike bag - expensive and you never use it. You will need the Brompton penta clip £18 to fit an after market saddle although I find the std one not too bad. Finally DO NOT LET IT OUT OF YOUR SITE AS THEY ARE VERY NICKABLE AND CERTAINLY DO NOT LOCK IT UP ANYWHERE EVEN WITH A DECENT D-LOCK AS WHEN YOU COME BACK IT WILL BE GONE. My first L6 was pinched on account of me being refused entry to a building even with it folded up. I had to lock it up outside to an Oxford hoop. When I returned to collect it 2.5 hrs later it had gone . As I say even with a decent D-lock which I used through the frame and wheels they still go walkies.

Did I get everything in?


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## jimboalee (5 Aug 2009)

Bromptons are the same as any other bike. Pedals, wheels, handlebars etc.
They are as fast as they are geared and your legs are powerful. Just because they can be folded up, doesn't mean they feel like they have a lead weight hanging off the back.

But read.....

The P6R-X is 11.3 kg, or 25lb. Add on another 2lb for kit and it is 27lb to heave along. The gearing should have a 37" in there somewhere. If it hasn't, forget it. Fortunately, the P6R-X has a range of 33 – 99 inches, so it’s a runner up a 12% gradient.

The S2L is 10.7 kg. It should have a 39" gear. It has a 56 and 74. It will feel like Starley's Rover up any hill. As one member has commented, it needs a smaller chainring.

The 3 speed version has 48 – 85 inch range. That also needs a smaller ring.

The single speed has 74",,, ????? I didn't know there was a 'Track' Brompton.


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## asterix (5 Aug 2009)

shauncollier said:


> flats / descents / shallow inclines, as fast as any steel bike. .



Slight pinch of salt needed there. I have 2 Brommies, no way on this earth are they as fast as my Roberts compact audax. Nevertheless, they are surprisingly quick and good fun in the city.


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## trsleigh (5 Aug 2009)

Crankarm said:


> Finally DO NOT LET IT OUT OF YOUR SITE AS THEY ARE VERY NICKABLE AND CERTAINLY DO NOT LOCK IT UP ANYWHERE EVEN WITH A DECENT D-LOCK AS WHEN YOU COME BACK IT WILL BE GONE. My first L6 was pinched on account of me being refused entry to a building even with it folded up. I had to lock it up outside to an Oxford hoop. When I returned to collect it 2.5 hrs later it had gone . As I say even with a decent D-lock which I used through the frame and wheels they still go walkies.



Just curious, where was this? Presumably it was somewhere where you had no choice about having to go in. My only folded Brompton refusal has been a pub in Brentford, simply resolved by going to next pub in street.
I also carry a black bin liner in the frame tube so I could, if necessary, wrap it up, but so far have never needed to try that approach. ( Apart from the pub where it was much simpler to say stuff this.)


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## CopperBrompton (5 Aug 2009)

I've never been refused entry anywhere with a Brommie, but I like the bin-liner idea. :-)


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## SavageHoutkop (5 Aug 2009)

The rack is surprisingly light, I thought. We've fitted one to Mr SavageHoutkop's bike (mine came with it ready fitted) and I was quite surprised how light it was. I thought it'd be heavier.

Also, the pentaclip now comes standard, so you don't need to buy it additionally if you're getting a new bike.

And sadly, we've had a puncture each in the first two months of ownership (with the Brompton branded Kevlar). When looking at the amount of glass embedded in the tyre, this is probably a pretty good run actually! Now considering the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres.... I have ridden over *lots* of glass though, it seems the nightly hobby here is smashing beer/vodka bottles/glasses into cyclepaths!


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## Amanda P (5 Aug 2009)

Red said:


> I know with folding bikes the wheels are smaller and so won't travel as fast as your normal sized bike



Don't assume that small wheels are slow. With high pressure tyres (and suspension) they are as quick or quicker than 700 wheels, as various world speed records set on Moultons show.

And of course, how fast it goes depends mainly on the engine. That's you.


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## jimboalee (5 Aug 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I've never been refused entry anywhere with a *Brommie*, but I like the bin-liner idea. :-)



Why was I under the impression a "Brommie" was a Tom Bromwich?


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## Red (5 Aug 2009)

Thanks again everyone this is very encouragng, Just a nervous newbie who hasn't ridden in years


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## Crankarm (5 Aug 2009)

trsleigh said:


> Just curious, where was this? Presumably it was somewhere where you had no choice about having to go in. My only folded Brompton refusal has been a pub in Brentford, simply resolved by going to next pub in street.
> I also carry a black bin liner in the frame tube so I could, if necessary, wrap it up, but so far have never needed to try that approach. ( Apart from the pub where it was much simpler to say stuff this.)



Senate House, London University, Malet Street.
My post-grad ceremony in 2004.
Bike racks had a security cameras aimed at them.
No film in cameras .
Got a new one on house insurance but that's not the
point. My premiums went up and I lost NCD .


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## Tynan (5 Aug 2009)

I've certainly seen the odd one going well, one rider said he'd modded the gears from standard, must be a tad dicey with pot holes/bad road though I'd have thought


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## palinurus (5 Aug 2009)

Tynan said:


> must be a tad dicey with pot holes/bad road though I'd have thought



Not too bad. Unsurfaced roads are challenging, but they are on a road bike too. Cobbles are do-able, I'd say more challenging than a full sized bike in the wet. The little bit of suspension on the rear wheels soaks up a fair bit of pothole shock. The bars are fairly flexible, they probably take out a bit of the vibration too. 

The off-road performance of a Brompton isn't great, but I took mine down the local Sustrans path a couple of times. It didn't like deep gravel much and hard packed mud with rocks in it wasn't much fun either.

To my regret I never tried it in the snow.


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## srw (5 Aug 2009)

palinurus said:


> To my regret I never tried it in the snow.



I have - no more problem than it would have been on a conventional bike - and unlike a conventional bike it's possible to set the saddle a bit lower so tht you can put a foot down slightly more easily. Marathon tyres probably help!

I've also ridden it on hard-packed ice. Not fun, but marginally less alarming than walking...


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## palinurus (5 Aug 2009)

srw said:


> unlike a conventional bike it's possible to set the saddle a bit lower so tht you can put a foot down slightly more easily.



That's what I was thinking, saddle down and feet as outriggers on the descents. Bikes are more controllable when under power in snow and ice, coasting is trickier.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (5 Aug 2009)

asterix said:


> Slight pinch of salt needed there. I have 2 Brommies, no way on this earth are they as fast as my Roberts compact audax. Nevertheless, they are surprisingly quick and good fun in the city.




yes i agree, what i should have said is 'as fast as any standard steel touring bike of similar price'. is that a more sensible claim?


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## jimboalee (6 Aug 2009)

shauncollier said:


> yes i agree, what i should have said is 'as fast as any standard steel touring bike of similar price'. is that a more sensible claim?



You should have said "as fast as any standard steel touring bike of similar *aerodynamics*"


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## mickle (6 Aug 2009)

jimboalee said:


> You should have said "as fast as any standard steel touring bike of similar *aerodynamics*"



..and rolling resistance and transmission losses.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Aug 2009)

mickle said:


> ..and rolling resistance and transmission losses.


I find the fatness of the bloke on the saddle has an impact too (except in Jimbo's calcs )


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Aug 2009)

Fab Foodie said:


> I find the fatness of the bloke on the saddle has an impact too



that's me buggered then


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## Bigtwin (6 Aug 2009)

Right, last night I did a 20 mile TT outward leg on my Brompton at an average speed of 26.31 mph.






Would have been faster on the way back too with the wind, had that bloody alarm clock not gone off.


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## scouserinlondon (6 Aug 2009)

I've been left for dead by a couple of bromptons. Really not cricket.


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## calvjones (6 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Right, last night I did a 20 mile TT outward leg on my Brompton at an average speed of 26.31 mph.





My 12 mile slightly bumpy commute home along Sustrans gravel & mud-bath = 12.5mph compared to a usual 15mph on the Airborne. So not bad

You go slower on a Brompton due to psychological factors more than physical ones - i.e. a lot more likely to stop and smell the flowers...


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## jimboalee (6 Aug 2009)

I too have a small-wheeled bike.

To find out which was easier to ride, I went out for a ride on the BSA 20 with my light SWorks strapped to my back.
After 20 miles, I swapped bikes and to my amazement, it was more difficult to ride the SWorks with the BSA 20 strapped to my back.


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## Crankarm (6 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Right, last night I did a 20 mile TT outward leg on my Brompton at an average speed of 26.31 mph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You sure BT? That's rather quick to _*average*_ 26.31 mph on any bike let alone a Brompton. Was the wind up your rear and the route down hill like 15% ?


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## palinurus (6 Aug 2009)

Scroll down Crankarm, scroll down..


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## Will1985 (6 Aug 2009)

Last year's BWC winner Alistair Kay averaged 35.48km/h with Heras only 3 seconds slower. I believe that was a lumpy course, so it would be interesting to see what they could do on a flat course.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Right, last night I did a 20 mile TT outward leg on my Brompton at an average speed of 26.31 mph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Crankarm (7 Aug 2009)

palinurus said:


> Scroll down Crankarm, scroll down..



Huhh?........


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## Will1985 (7 Aug 2009)

Crankarm said:


> Huhh?........


It was a dream...


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## jimboalee (7 Aug 2009)

No dream.

It was that 58 tooth chainring.


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## HJ (7 Aug 2009)

Red said:


> Exploring my options
> Looking and liking the idea of getting a brompton do late shifts and don't fancy leaving it outside in the small wee hours of the morning
> 
> I know with folding bikes the wheels are smaller and so won't travel as fast as your normal sized bike But how quick can you travel on one compared to a standard bike
> ...



Depends on how fast your legs are  

To be more serious, watching the folding race at the [URL="http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=35370]Edinburgh Nocturne[/URL] I was surprised to see that they weren't much slower that the road bikes...


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## Miquel In De Rain (7 Aug 2009)

Bromptons are slow unless im riding it.


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## matason (8 Aug 2009)

*Cattlegrids*

If you out in rural areas watch out for cattlegrids 

I've been training a fair bit on the Brompton recently, I did 40 miles from Garstang to central Manchester over Belmont in 2 hrs 40 mins - I don't know how that stacks up against a conventional road bike...

Other things I've been considering are how fast should I let it go down hills? Obviously where it's safe etc and also whether the Brompton can take hard "out of the saddle" up hill climbs? So far I've experienced no problems but then I'm still fairly new to the bike.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Aug 2009)

15 mph average over belmont is fast on any bike. more impressive on a brommie. i can only get to 12mph average over a 25 mile ride round rossendale valley, but i am fat and reasonably unfit.


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## HJ (10 Aug 2009)

scouserinlondon said:


> I've been left for dead by a couple of bromptons. Really not cricket.



+1

People who think Bromptons are slow have never meet a fast cyclist who happens to be riding a Brompton. It is not the bike which determines the speed it is the rider...


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## Robbiebrown34 (29 Jul 2014)

Sorry to bring up an old thread here but that really was an interesting read. 

I'm considering getting a Brompton for my commute into London. I would have a 9/10 mile ride to the train station and then 1mile to the office from there. 

Would the Brompton be suitable for this? I have a road and mountain bike but there is no way I'm leaving either at the station after everything I have heard! 

Can you recommend which bike would be best for this commute? 3 gears or 6 gears? It'll be on fairly flat ground (Bracknell to Maidenhead) but having never ridden one I really aren't sure what's best. Hoping to head into Evans cycles later this week to try one out but wanted some advice first. 

Thanks


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## CopperBrompton (29 Jul 2014)

For flat ground, the 3-speed will probably be fine. The 6-speed has a bit of a clunky twin-lever gear change, and mostly gives you extra steps rather than significantly extending the range. I'd start by riding the 3-speed and see how you get on.

The Brompton bags are great (I have the C-Bag which carries loads), so it's rare to use the rack, so I wouldn't bother with that. Bars are to taste - most people opt for the M, the S is lower so sportier but less comfortable in traffic, the P gives the best of both worlds but personally I hate the look.


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## Luke Redpath (29 Jul 2014)

I have a Tern folder which has 20" wheels and weighs about 11.5KG. 

It's very quick off the line and is more than capable of sustaining 20mph and above in top gear (9 gears on mine) on flats. Unfortunately my legs are not. 

I got my previous Tern which only had 8 years up to 32mph downhill, I suspect my new one should manage a bit more than this. 

Biggest downside that I notice is that there's a lot of rolling resistance, probably in part down to the Marathon supremes fitted to mine, so any downhill speed scrubs off quite quickly unless you are very fit. Uphill can also be a bit of a chore but again that's probably a lot down to my own capabilities. 

But it does the job nicely for me and I can do a 12 mile home journey through East London in about an hour, with traffic/lights etc.


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## annedonnelly (29 Jul 2014)

Robbiebrown34 said:


> Hoping to head into Evans cycles later this week to try one out but wanted some advice first.
> 
> Thanks


See if you can borrow/hire one for a day so you can have a good try out. That's what I did and I was able to ride my commute and figure out what gears I'd need. If you're near a Brompton Dock I think you can get a day's hire quite cheaply.


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## Tynan (29 Jul 2014)

from distant memory of other threads and seeing as no-one else has said it, don;t the parts etc wear out quicker?

given the considerable compromises of finer qualities for the advantages of folding up small

and yes of course a fast strong rider will make them go but they are slower all other things being equal aren't they?

and expensive and therefore rather desirable to the prowling ne'er-do-well


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## CopperBrompton (29 Jul 2014)

Tynan said:


> from distant memory of other threads and seeing as no-one else has said it, don;t the parts etc wear out quicker?


Not that I've noticed. 



> and yes of course a fast strong rider will make them go but they are slower all other things being equal aren't they?


Cross-country, a bit, but not in urban riding where it's all start-stop traffic light GPs. There the small wheels make them quick to accelerate. I'm of very average fitness for a gentleman of a certain age and I'm almost always first away from the lights, and generally don't get overtaken by road bikes until halfway toward the next set, at which point rinse and repeat.



> and expensive and therefore rather desirable to the prowling ne'er-do-well


Yep, but one of their great strengths is you never have to leave them unattended. In the office, they go under your desk; shops, restaurants, etc, they come in with you.


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## Tynan (29 Jul 2014)

perhaps for the average plodder, a brommie is red rag to me and the bike that's first to the next lights is always in with a chance to get through it before it changes

they must wear out parts quicker, mind you heaven knows a road bike wears out parts


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## jay clock (29 Jul 2014)

i find mine slow mainly because I use it across south London down very small roads etc have lots of stop/starts


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## CopperBrompton (29 Jul 2014)

Tynan said:


> a brommie is red rag to me


A lot of roadies and fixies seem to feel the same judging by how hard they seem to be working ... I remain firmly in the saddle, quietly snicking though the hub gears with my hub dynamo lights on. :-)



> and the bike that's first to the next lights is always in with a chance to get through it before it changes


There's always that, but it rarely seems to work out that way. I do sometimes see one run a red light after the third or fourth time we meet ...


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## shouldbeinbed (30 Jul 2014)

spandex said:


> You would say that
> 
> Just as I would say S2 (2 speed) all the way I am so much faster on the S2 then the M3 or the P6 the gear combos just do not work for me and the bars flex to much as well.
> 
> Red if you can try them all!


Agree, nowt wrong with the S bar. I have standard gear S3 and can whiz along happily on it and pass other MTB/hybrid cyclists in undulating North Manchester.


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## shouldbeinbed (30 Jul 2014)

Tynan said:


> they must wear out parts quicker



Why must they? They are designed and built knowing they are likely (tho capable of far more) to be a daily commute workhorse & they know in advance that the end product will be a 16" wheel bike, so the parts are commensurate to the build. I also haven't noticed undue or fast wear of parts on mine, or on the other quality folders I've had.


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## Matthames (30 Jul 2014)

I have come within a whisker of claiming a few KOMs on my Brompton. I have also hit 30 mph on the flat doing an all out sprint. So with the right pair of legs they can shovel.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (30 Jul 2014)

Re wearing out, yes the chain drive does wear out quicker, but they're so cheap it's not worth swapping chains out - I.e., one chain per chain drive (front ring, rear sprockets and chain) change which can be as much as 10,000 miles. So it kinda balances out, the rims wear out quickly for me as I'm heavy and it's hilly where I live, but they're only ~£20 and take an hour to change.

The M+ tyres do wear quickly, I tend to only get 2-3000 miles on the rear. The OEM tyres do last a lot longer IME.

The rear hinge can wear wear out quickly or last ages, my 1st brommie's hinge wore out in less than 4000 miles but my others haven't needed changing past that..go figure.

Maintenance wise...2 speed is a PITA and doesn't seem to like the northern grit when it rains torrentially. The 2 trigger system for 2/6 speed works but gets on my nerves especially when the 2 speed packs up - which means you end up with a REALLY wide 3 speed.

The best combo I've ever had for the least amount of maintenance was the 3 speed BSR and Schlumpf mountain drive. I never touched it for thousand of miles....in fact I'm converting one of my existing B's to this again (I sold my last one as I thought I'd not need the fold again).


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