# Happy to be alive



## ayceejay (3 Sep 2011)

A 40 tonne truck had me off the road today, as he was hanging on his klaxon I doubt that this was a mistake. My trembling was a mixture of fear and rage. I had to continue otherwise I thought I may never get on a bike again. Thanks for listening.


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## abo (3 Sep 2011)

what happened? just some random moron or did he think you'd done smething to offend?


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## ayceejay (4 Sep 2011)

Good question. My guess is peanut without the capacity to think.


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## Jezston (4 Sep 2011)

You've reported it to the police, right?


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## coffeejo (4 Sep 2011)

Well done for getting straight back on ... and ditto the comment about reporting it.

Glad you're ok.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Sep 2011)

1/ Glad you are OK.

2/ Report the incident to the police

3/ Deep breaths, a relaxing cuppa and all will be well


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## soulful dog (4 Sep 2011)

Well done for getting straight back on, hope it has no lasting effects on you.

It's funny how things can affect you, I was hit by a lorry a couple of years ago and apart from cuts & bruises was fine, but yesterday I had two incidents with cars passing very close that left me trembling and pretty much feeling ill.


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## downfader (4 Sep 2011)

I'm sorry to read this. 

I would strongly echo others concerns to report it to the Police. If you can give a good description of the vehicle, company legends/logos, time and date of incident, etc. 

Also report it to stopSMIDSY. Then the campaign can use the info to help make cycling better.


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Why do you all instantly assume it was the fault of the lorry driver?


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## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Why do you all instantly assume it was the fault of the lorry driver?


because the lorry driver has a duty not to put people in fear of their lives.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> because the lorry driver has a duty not to put people in fear of their lives.


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## billy1561 (5 Sep 2011)

I had a very close call yesterday 3rd exit on a roundabout and a black corsa turned right in front of me no indicators whatsoever. Missed me by about 3 feet at around 20 mph. Scared the shoot out of me and i yelled as he drove past. His brake lights came on momentarily as if he was stopping but then off he went. 

Looking back over it in my mind i can't recall signalling myself and i was hugging the roundabout so can think myself fortunate as i am equally to blame if not more so. 

I guess it shows how easy it is to make basic errors from fatigue when coming off night shift


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

God. When I read things like this it makes me really, really want to get a helmet cam. Shame you didn't have one.


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## Firm Button (5 Sep 2011)

I'm defo putting a HD cam on my list of essentials!

Steve


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.226858,0.013114


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## ayceejay (5 Sep 2011)

Thanks for the support everyone. I'm afraid I don't understand twigman's question at all.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

ayceejay said:


> Thanks for the support everyone. I'm afraid I don't understand twigman's question at all.



It's easy to understand. You don't give much info in your opening post, other than to say you were run off the road by a truck. Somewhere on a trucking forum, the driver might be saying 'came across a suicidal cyclist today. He went where there was no room and I nearly hit him.' Hard to judge with such little info.


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

Of course. We all assume that the fault is with the driver. But all of us here have had scary experiences with aggressive drivers and we naturally assume that this is another example.


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Of course. We all assume that the fault is with the driver.



Not all of us.
I make no assumptions until I have reviewed the evidence.

I see many, many incidents on the road where, in all honesty, the cyclist is at fault (RLJing/wobbling in to traffic/bunnyhopping off pavements into traffic etc etc) but would they admit liability in the event of an accident? Probably not as it's always the nasty driver's fault, isn't it?


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

I think we have a troll in our midst.


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I think we have a troll in our midst.



not trolling - merely not passing judgement without the facts

how is that trolling?


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> It's easy to understand. You don't give much info in your opening post, other than to say you were run off the road by a truck. Somewhere on a trucking forum, the driver might be saying 'came across a suicidal cyclist today. He went where there was no room and I nearly hit him.' Hard to judge with such little info.



This is how someone with a balanced view who tries to put things into perspective replies.



Twigman said:


> Probably not as it's always the nasty driver's fault, isn't it?



This is the sort of comment that someone with an axe to grind makes.


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> This is the sort of comment that someone with an axe to grind makes.



No axe to grind - merely the impression all the sympathetic posts, passing judgement without evidence, give me.


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## ayceejay (5 Sep 2011)

To be honest I was so shaken that my post here was just an attempt to air my feelings and I hadn't anticipated that amongst the understanding someone would ask for 'evidence' I guess you had to be there.


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> No axe to grind - merely the impression all the sympathetic posts, passing judgement without evidence, give me.



You've got no more evidence that ayceejay was at fault than we have that he wasn't. But I agree entirely with some of what you say - I just don't like how you say it. Most of us here would agree that some cyclists do stupid things - there's never one class of person who's always at fault and that's true for motorists; but it's also true for cyclists.
I personally get very cross with cyclists that charge past pedestrians at high speed or cycle in the middle of the night without lights - but I also get cross when motorists put my life at risk because they think they have more right to use the road than I have. It's happened to me many, many times, and whereas I don't claim to be God almighty who never makes a mistake, I never do anything purposely that puts myself or anyone else in danger, and I think the same goes for most people on this forum including, I hope,ayceejay.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

ayceejay said:


> To be honest I was so shaken that my post here was just an attempt to air my feelings and* I hadn't anticipated that amongst the understanding someone would ask for 'evidence'* I guess you had to be there.



It does, indeed, beggar belief. Some halfwit nearly killed me with a caravan last Monday - he overtook me on a sharpish blind right-hand bend at about 40mph, passing my elbow with less than a foot to spare. I barely had time to draw a breath of relief before his caravan swung even closer. You might say that I am lucky to be alive, or that he is lucky that there was no opportunity for me to catch up with him after the event. The woman in the car behind was visibly shaken I don't need to provide any evidence of anything in order to relate this story, and neither do you to relate yours. Asking you for evidence in this situation is moronic.


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

And I'd add that you don't need to feel bad about starting a lively discussion. It's doing you good, and us too!


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> You've got no more evidence that ayceejay was at fault than we have that he wasn't. B


and I haven't pointed the finger at anyone, have I?


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530578"]
Not in the context of the OP it's not. If they had described it the way you have with the above then I would agree.

But merely mentioning that a truck had them off the road with the driver giving a firm blast of the horn is nether here nor there imo. Add to the fact that near enough everyone jumped on thee old ''drivers at fault'' bandwagon just don't cut it with me.
[/quote]

I don't see why it's necessary to have some kind of formal inquiry. Someone posted that he felt in fear of his life from a vehicle that should be taking every care to avoid intimidating or endangering him, in a place where he had reason to think others would recognise and understand that he was shaken. That's all there is to it.


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## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Not all of us.
> I make no assumptions until I have reviewed the evidence.
> 
> I see many, many incidents on the road where, in all honesty, the cyclist is at fault (RLJing/wobbling in to traffic/bunnyhopping off pavements into traffic etc etc) but would they admit liability in the event of an accident? Probably not as it's always the nasty driver's fault, isn't it?


iconoclasm will only get you so far. 'Wobbling in to traffic'. Bikes are traffic.


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## soulful dog (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530578"]Not in the context of the OP it's not. If they had described it the way you have with the above then I would agree.

But merely mentioning that a truck had them off the road with the driver giving a firm blast of the horn is nether here nor there imo. Add to the fact that near enough everyone jumped on thee old ''drivers at fault'' bandwagon just don't cut it with me.[/quote]
Oh well stuff him then if it doesn't cut it with you. I take back my expressions of concern ayceejay since you didn't provide detailed evidence.....


Now back to reality where this is just someone making a comment on a cycling forum and not looking to apportion blame in a court of law, good to hear you are ok despite having any kind of incident involving a 40-tonne truck.


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## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> And I'd add that you don't need to feel bad about starting a lively discussion. It's doing you good, and us too!


quite so.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530584"]
No formal enquiry is needed at all. Me and I should imagine a few others want to know what happened. And if need to be what can be learned and advice given regarding the Police etc.

The OP has said that are shaken up by an incident with an artic, etc which is fine. It's only natural to asked what happened.
[/quote]

Twigman didn't ask ayceejay what happened, though, did he? He effectively asked everyone else to suspend their words of support pending "evidence", when evidence is entirely irrelevant to the point of the thread.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530587"]
No it's not, it's completely natural. If someone I knew or didn't (I don't think it really matters) had something happen to them that had scared them completely shitless. *The first thing you would do is help them is calm them down, and then you would ask them what happened.*
[/quote]

Yes - which is what abo did in post #2...


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> It does, indeed, beggar belief. Some halfwit nearly killed me with a caravan last Monday - he overtook me on a sharpish blind right-hand bend at about 40mph, passing my elbow with less than a foot to spare. I barely had time to draw a breath of relief before his caravan swung even closer. You might say that I am lucky to be alive, or that he is lucky that there was no opportunity for me to catch up with him after the event. The woman in the car behind was visibly shaken I don't need to provide any evidence of anything in order to relate this story, and neither do you to relate yours. Asking you for evidence in this situation is moronic.



Amen to that. 

Putting everything else aside, what reason would a rig have for blasting its' air-horn at another road user?


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> I don't see why it's necessary to have some kind of formal inquiry. Someone posted that he felt in fear of his life from a vehicle that should be taking every care to avoid intimidating or endangering him, in a place where he had reason to think others would recognise and understand that he was shaken. That's all there is to it.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530592"]
To let them know they are there?
[/quote]

A short tap of the horn is sufficient and not "hanging on the klaxon as described".


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530591"]
Am I not allowed to do it as well?
[/quote]

Yes of course. But asking someone what has happened is not the same as demanding evidence.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530595"]
But the above is anecdotal - is it not?
[/quote]

As is any post about an experience not accompanied by A/V footage.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Asking you for evidence in this situation is moronic.



Bit of a straw man this, as nobody asked for evidence. I personally just pointed out that the OP gave very little info about the incident in his post, which made it difficult to judge.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Bit of a straw man this, as nobody asked for evidence. I personally just pointed out that the OP gave very little info about the incident in his post, which made *it difficult to judge*.





Twigman said:


> Not all of us.
> I make no assumptions until I have reviewed the evidence.
> 
> I see many, many incidents on the road where, in all honesty, the cyclist is at fault (RLJing/wobbling in to traffic/bunnyhopping off pavements into traffic etc etc) but would they admit liability in the event of an accident? Probably not as it's always the nasty driver's fault, isn't it?



Twigman did, as you can now see. When exactly were you asked to judge anything?


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530600"]
Interesting, I am merely taking the piss, yet you....*this thread is growing legs*.
[/quote]

Indeed!


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

I don't need to be asked do I? Plenty of people have judged that the OP should report the trucker to the police. Why aren't you berating them for offering their judgement? Ah, it's because they agree with you isn't it? Good-o.


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## ufkacbln (5 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Why do you all instantly assume it was the fault of the lorry driver?



The people to sort this out are the Police, if there is a problem then they can sort this out, or if the cyclist at fault the same process occurs.

Reporting the episode to the Police is entirely appropriate and no judgmental


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I don't need to be asked do I? Plenty of people *have judged that the OP should report the trucker to the police*. Why aren't you berating them for offering their judgement? Ah, it's because they agree with you isn't it? Good-o.



That's not a judgement - that's advice. You need to work on your precision.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Twigman did, as you can now see.



No, I can't see. He said he refrains from making judgements unless he's reviewed the evidence. Not the same thing.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530599"]
What's your point exactly?
[/quote]

My point is that asking for evidence from an OP who relates an incident is futile and pointless.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> That's not a judgement - that's advice. You need to work on your precision.



Okay. I *advise* the OP to explain the incident a bit more clearly if he wants a reasoned opinion from me. You need to work on your manners.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> No, I can't see. He said he refrains from making judgements unless he's reviewed the evidence. Not the same thing.



I'm not clear why he thinks _his _judgement is in demand, either...


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> That's not a judgement - that's advice. You need to work on your precision.


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## Red Light (5 Sep 2011)

The reality is though that the majority of the time the fault lies with the driver. It's different with pedestrians (&child cyclists) who are more likely to be at fault than the driver but in a TRL review for adult cyclists, police attributed the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Okay. I *advise* the OP to explain the incident a bit more clearly* if he wants a reasoned opinion from me*. You need to work on your manners.



I'd be surprised if he's terribly interested in your opinion. I know I'm not. But it takes all sorts.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530612"]
I'm not asking for evidence, I'm asking what happened. Evidence would be, to back up what happened.
[/quote]

A truck blasted it's horn at him. That is what happened.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> I'd be surprised if he's terribly interested in your opinion. I know I'm not. But it takes all sorts.



Do you find you get punched a lot?


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530616"]
But why Angel - why?
[/quote]

I doubt the OP would know that. Why do drivers do anything that could threaten a cyclist?


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Do you find you get punched a lot?



No.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Do you find you get punched a lot?



Do you have a desire to punch Claudine?


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530622"]
Why not? 

There are a number of reasons, most of the time ime it is down to driver error, however there have been times when cyclists and they way they ride have needed a _*quick blast of the horn to let them knwo that other road users are there.*_
[/quote]

You said it


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## Banjo (5 Sep 2011)

I am quite happy to take the op at face value.
I hope it doesnt put you off cycling .


BUT I think the attitude of some people that the driver is allways to blame is ridiculous.

I see plenty of terrible cycling and am quite happy to hold my own hand up to making mistakes out on the road both on the bike and in the car.

Unless we are willing to admit we arent perfect cyclists all the time nothing can be learnt from our mistakes.


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## Hip Priest (5 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Do you have a desire to punch Claudine?



It's a woman? Jesus, I thought teenage boys had the monopoly on internet smart-arsery. And no, I've no desire to punch anybody.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530624"]
So are you blaming the cyclist then? And the way they were riding?
[/quote]
No. Go back and look at the enboldened text and then look at the OP's description.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Sep 2011)

I am happy to take the OP at face value, so I will say the cyclist was in the right until shown otherwise.


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

Isn't the principle of justice that a man on trial is innocent until proven guilty? In this case, as evidence and proof are clearly ridiculous, shouldn't we say that we should accept the OP's statement as correct until we can find any reason to doubt it?


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

God, this could go a long way - how can the OP know for sure that he can trust his own judgment? How can he be sure that his senses aren't tricking him? How can he be sure he really exists at all?


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## theclaud (5 Sep 2011)

Banjo said:


> we arent perfect cyclists all the time



Speak for yourself, Banjo 

Thing is, the title of the thread is "Happy to Be Alive", not "Just nearly died- opinions please". Going for a bike ride should not entail fear for one's life, even if one wobbles along like Rich P after a free bar. I have a strict-liability approach to who is responsible, but it doesn't even need to come into it. "Glad you're Ok" will do the trick, with an optional "think about reporting it". The OP's cycling prowess is irrelevant.


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I doubt the OP would know that. Why do drivers do anything that could threaten a cyclist?



Perhaps, like so many around here it seems, he jumped a red light?


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## Twigman (5 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I am happy to take the OP at face value, so I will say the cyclist was in the right until shown otherwise.



I hold that for a lorry driver to 'hang on the klaxon' I suspect there must've been a jolly good reason for him so to do. Lorry drivers are professional drivers who in my experience, and I have met and dealt with several, are the best drivers on the road. they have to be, their livelihood depends on it. Given the anecdote as presented, I would tend to side with the lorry driver and suspect there is something the OP is not telling us.


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## Jimmy Doug (5 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> and I haven't pointed the finger at anyone, have I?



Now you have


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## Mad at urage (6 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Not all of us.
> I make no assumptions until I have reviewed the evidence.
> 
> I see many, many incidents on the road where, in all honesty, the cyclist is at fault (RLJing/*wobbling in to traffic*/bunnyhopping off pavements into traffic etc etc) but would they admit liability in the event of an accident? Probably not as it's always the nasty driver's fault, isn't it?


I would remind the Friend of the Lorry Driver that cyclists are not only (as has been said) part of the traffic, but are also entitled to wobble. I refer the FotLD to the Highway Code. As a motorcyclist he should be well aware of section 213.



Twigman said:


> I hold that for a lorry driver to 'hang on the klaxon' I suspect there must've been a jolly good reason for him so to do.* Lorry drivers are professional drivers who in my experience, and I have met and dealt with several, are the best drivers on the road. they have to be, their livelihood depends on it.* Given the anecdote as presented, I would tend to side with the lorry driver and suspect there is something the OP is not telling us.


Really? Is this true of those who tailgate cars? Those who cut in after overtaking, forcing overtaken road users to brake to avoid their trailer? Those who pull onto roundabouts without checking for circulating traffic?

In my experience (and I've met and dealt with more than several) whilst some lorry drivers are undoubtedly extremely good, a high proportion are either too blasé or completely careless about other road users.


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## Twigman (6 Sep 2011)

Mad@urage said:


> I would remind the Friend of the Lorry Driver that cyclists are not only (as has been said) part of the traffic, but are also entitled to wobble. I refer the FotLD to the Highway Code. As a motorcyclist he should be well aware of section 213.



I omitted the word motorised......and wobbling into the path of motorised traffic is suicidal


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

As for lorry drivers being the best drivers around, maybe this is true, but it doesn't mean they have the best driving around. No matter how well they've been trained, no matter how much experience they've got, the problem is that their work conditions are such that many of them can't perform to the best of their ability. 
I work in the world of transport, particularly with road transport, so too did my wife, and so I have a little experience in the matter. The simple fact of the matter is that lorry drivers are put under massive stress to get to their destination on time. If they're delivering to supermarkets for example, and they're late by even a few minutes, their load can be refused at the cost to the haulage firm. This, with the mounting cost of petrol, means that haulage firms are running under tighter and tighter margins, which inevitably results in them putting yet more stress on the drivers. Also, a hell of a lot of lorry drivers do not have enough sleep, because their environment, often out in the service areas of motorways, isn't conducive to good sleep. This puts them under yet more stress, makes them yet more irritable and inevitably has an impact on their concentration.
And then they meet a cyclist. Maybe they don't seem him - that happens all the time, no matter how hard the cyclist tries to make himself visible (and I would be the first to admit that a lot of cyclists don't pay enough attention to this). Or maybe they do see him, but they're at the end of their tether. They've got a few minutes left to make thei delivery - if they don't it'll be refused and their boss will be breathing down their neck - again. They crack - just like they do when they drive too close to the car in front.


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## Jezston (6 Sep 2011)

Generalisations are wrong whether they are positive or negative.

While my general experience of lorry drivers has been positive, I've still had some bad incidents. Saying ALL lorry drivers are courteous and exemplary professionals that never put a foot wrong is completely wrong, as would saying all lorry drivers are prostitute murderers. Obviously the latter statement is probably MORE wrong, but wrong is wrong and not a quantifiable factor. Less than nothing is still nothing. Sorry, what were we talking about?


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

Well said, sir!


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## Mad at urage (6 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> I omitted the word motorised......and wobbling into the path of motorised traffic is suicidal


I again refer to the Highway Code, section 213.


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## Twigman (6 Sep 2011)

Over 90 posts in and the OP still hasn't related the story of what led up to the lorry driver 'hanging on the klaxon'....


I wonder why?


I never said ALL lorry drivers are fantastic drivers but on the balance of probability IME the vast majority are excellent drivers and need to maintain a spotless record to ensure their continued livelihood. As with anything in life there will be exceptions but they are exceptions and not the rule. To tar all lorry drivers with the same brush is disproportionate.

The only fact we have is that the OP was terrified by a lorry whose driver was 'hanging on the klaxon'.

We know nothing more, yet the vast majority of those that responded instantly assumed that the lorry driver must've been at fault and the poor innocent cyclist is a victim of circumctances over which he had no influence.

I merely suggest that on the balance of probability there is more to this story than we have in the OP. Lorry drivers do not, in my experience 'hang on the klaxon' without just cause. I'm curious as to what made the lorry driver do that.

The OP either doesn't have a clue why the driver did it or is embarrassed to admit that he did something amiss himself.


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## format (6 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> I hold that for a lorry driver to 'hang on the klaxon' I suspect there must've been a jolly good reason for him so to do. Lorry drivers are professional drivers who in my experience, and I have met and dealt with several, are the best drivers on the road. they have to be, their livelihood depends on it. Given the anecdote as presented, I would tend to side with the lorry driver and suspect there is something the OP is not telling us.



I realise I'm matching one anecdote with another, but in my experience, the people who use the roads the most are the most inclined to disrepect and endanger cyclists.

Men with Ven, Taxi drivers and the like (again, in my experience) seem to suffer from some sort of illusory superiority complex whereby they deem themselves above the concerns of 'normal' traffic. They might believe themselves to be better drivers but that's always a pretty dangerous delusion which emboldens them to make stupid and/or dangerous maneuvers that can endanger other road users.



Edit : in a similar vein, bicycle couriers are often seen to ride dangerously, RLJ'ing etc.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> on the balance of probability IME the vast majority are excellent drivers and need to maintain a spotless record to ensure their continued livelihood.



on the balance of probability IME the vast majority of cyclists are careful and need to maintain a spotless record to ensure their continued lives.


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## 4F (6 Sep 2011)

So nothing further from the OP so we are not able to make a balanced decision as to who was at fault ?

 

I bet the truck was a Mercedes


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## theclaud (6 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Over 90 posts in and the OP still hasn't related the story of what led up to the lorry driver 'hanging on the klaxon'....
> 
> 
> I wonder why?



Probably because he came here simply to relate a stressful experience in a sympathetic environment, and he got pompous demands for "evidence" from someone who is unapologetic about hospitalizing pedestrians.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

I think he's probably overwhelmed by how much of a discussion he's created and abandoned it. I don't expect he's hiding the information from us.


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## Jezston (6 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Probably because he came here simply to relate a stressful experience in a sympathetic environment, and he got pompous demands for "evidence" from someone who is unapologetic about hospitalizing pedestrians.



Oh that was HIM? I remember that! Surprised he's still around.


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## 2Loose (6 Sep 2011)

Crikey, so many posts bickering (P&L has gone you know?) and yet all I see is someone asking if it may be possible that the OP could do something differently next time to avoid the fright such as the one described. Ok, the wording wasn't so constructive...or was it?

Many on here learn\have learnt a lot through reading of other riders experiences, which in turn makes them more confident and safer riders. I see this as no different. People like to offer advice, be that 'rider further out', 'defend your lane' or 'report the driver they should be banged up'.

In this thread all I have read is (and I am not belittling the experience, I am sure it frightened the OP out of their skin) 'you were scared. report the driver'. Not good imo. Certainly not helpful or civil.

Right, dummy thrown now, please calm down and think of the children


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

Oh, but bickering is nice from time to time. It awakens our childish inner-selves. Now don't try to spoil our fun 2Loose!


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

What do you doubt exactly? Maybe you want evidence?


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

I'm not even bothering to answer you. You'll just have to accept that I do work in the world of transport (in the biggest transport training institution in France), that my wife did (and got out because of the stress) and, I might as well add, her sister still does (and wants to get out because of the supermarket refusal problem is making her life hell). I'm not going to justify myself any further than this - if you think I'm creating a false identity for myself that that's your problem.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

Now you've truly shown that you know nothing. I never claimed to have worked in the logistics industry - I work in the transport industry. Logistics and transport isn't the same thing. Look it up if you can be bothered.


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## lulubel (6 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530654"]
I doubt what you say about the rise of *petrol*.
[/quote]

Since this thread seems to be about taking the opportunity to release one's inner pedant, I second this


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Sep 2011)

OK, so I said petrol instead of diesel - therefore I don't know anything, I don't work in a transport school, my wife has never worked in transport, nor has her sister. Don't you ever talk about the rising cost of petrol? I know I do, even though my car is diesel. But that's enough - as I said before, I can't be bothered trying to counter your pathetic reasoning.


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## ayceejay (6 Sep 2011)

I wanted to leave this alone when it turned nasty but now that it has turned even nastier I will reveal all and then may be we can put this to rest,<p>I had just started my ride, I was perhaps 200 m from my drive on a straight stretch of a not too busy country road with a speed limit of 90 kph. I was well over to the right (I live in Quebec) being aware of traffic approaching from behind me, a Jeep passed me closely followed by the truck with his horn blaring less than a foot from my left shoulder thereby forcing me, shaking, off the road. It is possible that the truck driver was tooting at the Jeep who had overtaken and forced him to pull in closer to me or perhaps the Jeep was going too slow for the truck drivers liking or for some other reason which makes no difference at all to the effect it had on me. Had he stopped to apologize and explained I could relate that here but as he didn't I guess I will never know and I prefer not to speculate as it makes no difference to my original reason for posting.


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## 2Loose (6 Sep 2011)

Ayceejay, I hold you completely responsible for this entire thread



- if you had only filled in your location details in your profile, we could have all nodded sagely and sympathised instead of turning it into a nasty thread





I think the majority on here have taken a turn at just 'having a vent' from time to time, glad you are ok anyway.


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## rowan 46 (7 Sep 2011)

Ah Canada! That explains it



. I am glad you're ok


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Something like this happened to a friend of mine when she was crossing Canada. I think it was in Quebec too. She talks about it here


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

It was in Manitoba, not Quebec.


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> someone who is unapologetic about hospitalizing pedestrians.


and I should apologise for what?
doing everything I can to avoid a lemming ped who steps into the path no more than 2 metres in front of a vehicle travelling at 30mph?


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman, I was starting to think that I was wrong about you. In fact, I was going to send a PM apologizing for calling you a troll. I've seen some of your other posts, and I can see that you've just started cycling, maybe to get fit. I mean, you're not on this forum just to tell us all to bugger off the roads. But why do you continue to try to provoke another argument?


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> But why do you continue to try to provoke another argument?



Not trying to provoke another argument.
I do not appreciate being slurred as one who slays pedestrians and feels no remorse.
Yes I felt sorry for the lemming ped.
I am not sorry for any of my actions, I did all i could to prevent the resulting incident.

Not looking for another argument, merely trying to set the record straight.



I haven't just taken up cycling - I did a lot of cycling 25-30 years ago. Regular 40milers.
I am just getting back into it, to lose weight and get fit.
I wouldn't say I am inexperienced, I know all about being overtaken at close quarters etc

I do like to see both sides to a story before passing judgement.
I am well aware that many will start from a biased position relative to their own interests and experiences - I just enjoy encouraging them to think a little further than the end of their nose.


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> and I should apologise for what?
> *doing everything I can* to avoid a lemming ped who steps into the path no more than 2 metres in front of a vehicle travelling at 30mph?



Obviously you didn't, or you wouldn't have hit her. You're responsible. And being belligerent about it is not endearing. Neither is popping up in other threads seeking vicarious apologies from other vulnerable or initimated road users for her audacity in daring to cross the road.


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Obviously you didn't, or you wouldn't have hit her. You're responsible.



No I'm not. The ped was responsible.
Were you there? Did you see what happened?
Is the train driver responsible when a passenger jumps off the platform in front of a moving train?
How is this different?

Edit: - you're the one who brought this up in this thread, not me


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## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

ayceejay said:


> A 40 tonne truck had me off the road today, as he was hanging on his klaxon I doubt that this was a mistake. My trembling was a mixture of fear and rage. I had to continue otherwise I thought I may never get on a bike again. Thanks for listening.




Unfortunately, such things are rites of passage for cyclists. I wish they weren't but they are. I think all of us who've been on the road long enough can relate an incident with a truck or a fekkin caravan. It doesn't matter about fault either, the only person likely to die from it is the cyclist. We learn and move on and hope it doesn't happen to often, which, thankfully, it doesn't. Ignore the vultures picking over the bones, they're probably members of Fight Club, which is what these threads all turn into.


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> No I'm not. The ped was responsible.
> Were you there? Did you see what happened?
> Is the train driver responsible when a passenger jumps off the platform in front of a moving train?
> *How is this different?*
> ...



Unless your unfortunate pedestrian was attempting to commit suicide, it's entirely different. And you know it. But Crackle has pricked my conscience - I have allowed myself to become drawn in to this argument, when the thread should have been about a bit of reassurance for the OP.


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## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Unless your unfortunate pedestrian was attempting to commit suicide, it's entirely different. And you know it. But Crackle has pricked my conscience - I have allowed myself to become drawn in to this argument, when the thread should have been about a bit of reassurance for the OP.




Au contraire: It was you who pricked mine by pointing out what this thread should've been about, rather than the all too common specious arguments. I felt compelled to reply.

That caravan, it wasn't white was it. I think I've met it.


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Au contraire: It was you who pricked mine by pointing out what this thread should've been about, rather than the all too common specious arguments. I felt compelled to reply.
> 
> That caravan, *it wasn't white was it. I think I've met it*.



It was! A lot of people report similar sightings. The bastard doesn't half get about...


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Unless your unfortunate pedestrian was attempting to commit suicide, it's entirely different.


Perhaps she was? She certainly behaved no differently from someone who was, except perhaps she wasn't looking and didn't time her departure from the pavement deliberately - it was just an unhappy effect of her timing. There was absolutely nothing I could've done, more than I did, to avoid her. 

Would you hold a train driver responsible for hitting a passenger jumping to commit suicide in front of a moving train?
No
How about a train driver who hits a passenger who accidentally falls in front of a moving train?
Your supposition that since the pedestrian that I hit probably wasn't intending to commit suicide suggests that I was at fault suggests to me that perhaps you would hold the train driver responsible if the passenger fell accidentally.

Don't be ridiculous.


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## Hip Priest (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> There was absolutely nothing I could've done, more than I did, to avoid her.



Got any evidence of this?


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

User said:


> It wasn't me. Priscilla is green and blue and towed by trike....



Just watch out the flowing siver cape doesn't get caught in the drivetrain, or it'll all be a bit Isadora Duncan...


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Got any evidence of this?



How about a statement from an on duty copper who was stood on the pavement watching?
Will that do?


Edit: I'm surprised you haven't started laying into Gemma on the Big Off On Sunday thread to be honest...


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Perhaps she was? [...insert tireless self-justification...] if the passenger fell accidentally.
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.



Work through your guilt feelings somewhere else.


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## Hip Priest (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> How about a statement from an on duty copper who was stood on the pavement watching?
> Will that do?



Don't go to any trouble, it was just a joke.


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

theclaud said:


> Work through your guilt feelings somewhere else.



I have none.


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## Hip Priest (7 Sep 2011)

I must say, if I hit a pedestrian and knocked them unconscious, I'd still feel a lot of sympathy for them even if it was entirely their fault, and I'd want to know if they were okay. To err is human.


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## 4F (7 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1530656"]
Ok, so you don't actually work in logistics and your previous post was probably based on you sitting down with a couple of hot dogs and a bucket of popcorn to watch the series of _Eddie Stobart_: _Trucks and Trailers_ on C5.

Glad we cleared that up.
[/quote]


I work in logistics, transport (30 years now) and will add another made up word of "multimodal" and would concur that he was right about deliveries to supermarkets.

They are all in general ******* with little flexibility. Arrive slightly late and you are turned away, arrive on time and the ******** will keep you as long as they like and make you wait in the queue.

Aldi in my experience being the worst.


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I must say, if I hit a pedestrian and knocked them unconscious, I'd still feel a lot of sympathy for them even if it was entirely their fault, and I'd want to know if they were okay. To err is human.




I think Twigman's attitude to the person in question is all too clear:



Twigman said:


> Well they are obviously blind to motorcycles.
> 
> WTF are they crossing on red lights for anyway?
> 
> ...


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I think Twigman's attitude to the person in question is all too clear:



People who step out into moving traffic deserve all they get.

I have zero sympathy for any of them.

Darwinism at work.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Perhaps she was? She certainly behaved no differently from someone who was, except perhaps she wasn't looking and didn't time her departure from the pavement deliberately - it was just an unhappy effect of her timing. There was absolutely nothing I could've done, more than I did, to avoid her.
> 
> Would you hold a train driver responsible for hitting a passenger jumping to commit suicide in front of a moving train?
> No
> ...



One question. Can you steer a train?


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I must say, if I hit a pedestrian and knocked them unconscious, I'd still feel a lot of sympathy for them even if it was entirely their fault, and I'd want to know if they were okay. To err is human.



Likewise.


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## 4F (7 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> One question. Can you steer a train?



Here we go, another 10 pages worth at least I reckon


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> People who step out into moving traffic deserve all they get.
> 
> I have zero sympathy for any of them.
> 
> Darwinism at work.



How does the above tally with?


> Yes I felt sorry for the lemming ped.


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> One question. Can you steer a train?


No but then can you steer a motorcycle under emergency braking?

Motorcycles don't steer under emergency braking conditions. 

My comparison is perfectly reasonable and accurate.


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## theclaud (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> People who step out into moving traffic deserve all they get.
> 
> I have zero sympathy for any of them.
> 
> Darwinism at work.



My case, as DZ might say, pours itself a leisurely G&T etc etc...


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> How does the above tally with?



I felt sorry for her in so far I am glad I'm not that stupid.

I didn't feel any sympathy for the fact that she got hit by a motorcycle - she deserved it precisely because she was so stupid.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> No but then can you steer a motorcycle under emergency braking?
> 
> Motorcycles don't steer under emergency braking conditions.
> 
> My comparison is perfectly reasonable and accurate.



Difference is you had a choice to take evasive action or to slam on the brakes. A train driver has none. Also peds can legally cross roads whereas peds can not legally cross railway lines (other than at prescribed places). Where was your hazard perception?


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> Darwinism at work.



So, she is one of the inferiors and you, I suppose, one of the superiors. 
The girl made a mistake. Whether it was her fault or not, she made a mistake and she paid for it badly. I suppose you never make mistakes. You can at least show a little respect for her.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> I felt sorry for her in so far I am glad I'm not that stupid.
> 
> I didn't feel any sympathy for the fact that she got hit by a motorcycle - she deserved it precisely because she was so stupid.



Sorrow and sympathy are the same thing. Maybe one day a HGV driver will be saying the same thing about you?!


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## Hip Priest (7 Sep 2011)

I think we all make mistakes on the road. When I was young I rear-ended another car at a junction. I thought the driver might get out and lamp me, but he said 'these things happen, as long as nobody's hurt that's the main thing', then we exchanged details. The experience taught me a lot. I've never had a crash since, and I now know how a gentleman behaves if someone accidentally shunts his car.


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Difference is you had a choice to take evasive action or to slam on the brakes. A train driver has none. Also peds can legally cross roads whereas peds can not legally cross railway lines (other than at prescribed places). Where was your hazard perception?





My hazard perception was fine, the ped stepped out into the moving traffic. I did attempt to miss her. My first instinct was to try to stop while aiming the bike to a part of the road that, if she had continued on her original course and speed, I might have missed her...but when she started to panic she then changed her course and I had nowhere to go.

Why isn't everyone laying into the injured Gemma on the other thread after her collision with an old lady ped?

I'm off now - I've got work to do.


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## Thompson (7 Sep 2011)

After reading through this thread, it is clear that it is getting away from the actual poit of it. A few of you have said this and I completely agree. Yes there is no 'evidence' or 'proof' but how can there be as it would have happened very quickly and none of us were there. It is no point playing the blame game as it is just a waste of time which can hurt feelings. In my experience I have been forced off the road by a car in whch it was just as much my fault as hers, but a different time, it was very much the cars fault for over taking when there was no where near enough space to do so.

I am glad that aceejay is okay and hopefully not much damage to the bike either. It is always useful to contact the police as *IF* it was the drivers fault, then he/she can be warned and so may or may not be a better driver for it. *IF* it was the cyclists fault, then it is a lesson learnt. We all make mistakes as we are human and theres nothing anyone can do about it. 

A person posted on here what happened to them and that is perfectly fine to do. It is unfair that such an aweful conversation has been started where insults are being fired at anyone who joins in. 

Enough said I think.


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I think we all make mistakes on the road. When I was young I rear-ended another car at a junction. I thought the driver might get out and lamp me, but he said 'these things happen, as long as nobody's hurt that's the main thing', then we exchanged details. The experience taught me a lot. I've never had a crash since, and I now know how a gentleman behaves if someone accidentally shunts his car.



Exactly. Luckily for you it wasn't Twigman. I've made a few blinders as well, but I've never had an accident. I put that down to luck more than anything. Some people don't have that luck - but of course they're stupid and asking for everything they get.


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## Hip Priest (7 Sep 2011)

Thompson said:


> After reading through this thread, it is clear that it is getting away from the actual poit of it. A few of you have said this and I completely agree. Yes there is no 'evidence' or 'proof' but how can there be as it would have happened very quickly and none of us were there. It is no point playing the blame game as it is just a waste of time which can hurt feelings. In my experience I have been forced off the road by a car in whch it was just as much my fault as hers, but a different time, it was very much the cars fault for over taking when there was no where near enough space to do so.
> 
> I am glad that aceejay is okay and hopefully not much damage to the bike either. It is always useful to contact the police as *IF* it was the drivers fault, then he/she can be warned and so may or may not be a better driver for it. *IF* it was the cyclists fault, then it is a lesson learnt. We all make mistakes as we are human and theres nothing anyone can do about it.
> 
> ...



To be fair, I initially posted in support of Twigman because I thought he had a valid point - ie. why is everyone immediately blaming the truck driver when the OP has posted such little info about the incident? I must say, the thread has since taken a bit of a nasty turn and I don't want to be part of that - I too hope the OP has recovered fully from the shock.


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> To be fair, I initially posted in support of Twigman because I thought he had a valid point - ie. why is everyone immediately blaming the truck driver when the OP has posted such little info about the incident? I must say, the thread has since taken a bit of a nasty turn and I don't want to be part of that - I too hope the OP has recovered fully from the shock.



His point might have been a valid one, but his way of expressing his opinion was nasty.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> To be fair, I initially posted in support of Twigman because I thought he had a valid point - ie. why is everyone immediately blaming the truck driver when the OP has posted such little info about the incident? I must say, the thread has since taken a bit of a nasty turn and I don't want to be part of that - I too hope the OP has recovered fully from the shock.



In earlier threads I though Twigman had a point as well. Later it turned out he was just a nasty piece or work with a possibly sociopathic mentality.


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## Silver Fox (7 Sep 2011)

Twigman said:


> People who step out into moving traffic deserve all they get.
> 
> I have zero sympathy for any of them.
> 
> Darwinism at work.





Twigman said:


> I felt sorry for her in so far I am glad I'm not that stupid.
> 
> I didn't feel any sympathy for the fact that she got hit by a motorcycle - she deserved it precisely because she was so stupid.



Fella, that's just nasty.


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Sep 2011)

Four posts in a row with the word "nasty" in.


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## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I think Twigman's attitude to the person in question is all too clear:


blimey! I missed that first time round. Twiggers - this is goodbye!


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## Twigman (7 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> blimey! I missed that first time round. Twiggers - this is goodbye!



cheerio 

Where are you going?


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## Moderators (7 Sep 2011)

Afternoon all. If you're not going to play nicely in this thread, then you don't play in here at all.


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