# York plan to ban cars from city centre.



## tom73 (31 Dec 2019)

Know York quite well always thought why anyone would even try to drive though it. When you've got good park and ride options
Hopefully they get this one right the last few go's at limiting vehicles was not all that great. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-50957470

Notice by the comments it did not take long to for the burning torchers and pitch forks to come out.


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## rogerzilla (31 Dec 2019)

Yes, the mouth-breathing "I haven't ridden a bike myself since I was 10, so they must all be lycra-clad sex perverts" brigade is out in force. An amazing overlap between them, climate change deniers and hard Brexiteers. Everyone should be like them: middle-aged, and one bacon sandwich away from a coronary.


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## Supersuperleeds (31 Dec 2019)

Ban private cars the article says, they should ban taxis as well.


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## keithmac (31 Dec 2019)

I have the joys of living in York and the traffic planning is truely horrific as it is!.

I can't see anyone driving anywhere near the centre unless they truely had to, you wouldn't do it for fun.

They shut Micklegate Outbound down and are now reviewing why the traffic is so backed up at the Railway Station and Station rise, you couldn't make it up.

We work inside the bar walls, I cycle in but as a business we need vehicles to pick up broken down motorcycles etc, 

York Council seem to be hell bent on stripping any business that is not a Coffee Shop, Pub or Hotel out of the Centre.


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## Slick (31 Dec 2019)

Great idea, good on them. Up here, Edinburgh are talking about introducing a charge and Glasgow are bringing in low emissions from 2022 effectively banning the big polluters. Hopefully banning them altogether will be the next step.


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## MontyVeda (31 Dec 2019)

I'm sure the same mouth frothing went on in the 60s and 70s when areas of many town and city centres were pedestrianised... but I'm absolutely certain that not many of those critics would want to go back to the way things were.


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## Drago (31 Dec 2019)

I'm middle aged, white, have had one heart attack already, yet I thoroughly support the move to de motorise another town, so don't be too quick to stereotype the opposition. I'd have thought Brexit would have been a salutary lesson about how such stereotyping actually galvanises the public to get behind such groups. 

Oppose them in a dignified and gentlemanly manner, else you're best keeping your own peace on that one.


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## MarkF (31 Dec 2019)

Slick said:


> Great idea, good on them. Up here, Edinburgh are talking about introducing a charge and Glasgow are bringing in low emissions from 2022 effectively banning the big polluters. Hopefully banning them altogether will be the next step.



What does one bloke driving a vintage Mustang once a month, in summer, make? I do hope the rules are sensible.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2019)

What an excellent idea. By city centre do they mean anywhere inside the walls or further out? It will once again become a wonderful city centre without all the pollution and traffic.


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## Drago (31 Dec 2019)

The era of unfettered private car use without consequence is finally showing the first signs of coming to an end. 

Good.


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## classic33 (31 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> What an excellent idea. By city centre do they mean anywhere inside the walls or further out? It will once again become a wonderful city centre without all the pollution and traffic.


From reading the piece it's from within the City Walls.


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## tom73 (31 Dec 2019)

Yep within city walls it has to be positive thing all round. People hang around and mingle if your not looking over your shoulder every 5 minutes they are free to wonder round and shop. It works on the current areas that don’t allow or limit vehicle use. Totally car free centre which can build on the current cycle routes can only be a good thing.


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## Venod (31 Dec 2019)

York is one of my favourite cities and one we visit quite often, I think it lends itself well to a car ban within the city walls, you can't ban all motorised traffic, you still need delivery vehicles etc but the park and ride infrastructure is excellent in york so cars don't need to enter, but there are residents within the city walls who need to be considered.


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## Mike_P (1 Jan 2020)

The one issue with the York proposal is that it presumably takes all such vehicles off Station Road beyond the railway station so taking away a crossing of the Ouse hence forcing traffic on the north side of the city centre either further out to Clifton or to the south on Skeldergate Bridge near Clifford's Tower. Both potentially cause serious congestion issues on top of the existing in those locations. Or is the banning of such vehicles from within the city walls a headline that the details will show something different?


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## mjr (1 Jan 2020)

keithmac said:


> We work inside the bar walls, I cycle in but as a business we need vehicles to pick up broken down motorcycles etc,
> 
> York Council seem to be hell bent on stripping any business that is not a Coffee Shop, Pub or Hotel out of the Centre.


1. Won't access to businesses for commercial vehicles be an obvious exemption?
2. Wouldn't it make more sense to relocate a motorcycle-collecting business to an orbital or arterial road anyway?
3. Bit of a leap to suggest all non-hospitality businesses are being forced out, isn't it?

In general: good move, bring it on, more places would probably do it if past councils hadn't farked their successors by building expensive loan-funded car parks in their city centres.


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## Slick (1 Jan 2020)

MarkF said:


> What does one bloke driving a vintage Mustang once a month, in summer, make? I do hope the rules are sensible.


I'm not aware of any exceptions but I really wouldn't expect any as a ban really should mean just that.


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## keithmac (1 Jan 2020)

mjr said:


> 1. Won't access to businesses for commercial vehicles be an obvious exemption?
> 2. Wouldn't it make more sense to relocate a motorcycle-collecting business to an orbital or arterial road anyway?
> 3. Bit of a leap to suggest all non-hospitality businesses are being forced out, isn't it?
> 
> In general: good move, bring it on, more places would probably do it if past councils hadn't farked their successors by building expensive loan-funded car parks in their city centres.



Have you been round York recently and had a look what's there?.


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## keithmac (1 Jan 2020)

Mike_P said:


> The one issue with the York proposal is that it presumably takes all such vehicles off Station Road beyond the railway station so taking away a crossing of the Ouse hence forcing traffic on the north side of the city centre either further out to Clifton or to the south on Skeldergate Bridge near Clifford's Tower. Both potentially cause serious congestion issues on top of the existing in those locations. Or is the banning of such vehicles from within the city walls a headline that the details will show something different?



Stop talking common sense, all the Tourists and Hen Parties will love it, why take York residents into account .


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## BoldonLad (1 Jan 2020)

Venod said:


> York is one of my favourite cities and one we visit quite often, I think it lends itself well to a car ban within the city walls, you can't ban all motorised traffic, you still need delivery vehicles etc but the park and ride infrastructure is excellent in york so cars don't need to enter, but there are residents within the city walls who need to be considered.


One problem with the P&R, you cannot park over night. We visited York recently. We stayed in a city centre Hotel, but, on phoning P&R, we were told, no overnight parking, so, we had to drive into centre and park in a city centre car park. Madness.


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## Pale Rider (1 Jan 2020)

keithmac said:


> Have you been round York recently and had a look what's there?.



I've cycled through the centre a few times, but haven't taken a great deal of notice.

I take it local opinion is the place is being turned into a tourist theme park.

Similar is happening in Durham City, which in reality is no more than a very small town with a very big church.

A mate of mine, typical retired copper with too much money, opened a coffee shop in Durham.

He was moaning there are more than 40 places within a short walk to get a hot drink.

The irony of him adding to the number was lost, but the point about catering too much for visitors was well made.


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## Venod (1 Jan 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> One problem with the P&R, you cannot park over night. We visited York recently. We stayed in a city centre Hotel, but, on phoning P&R, we were told, no overnight parking, so, we had to drive into centre and park in a city centre car park. Madness.


 I agrree overnight parking at Park & Ride would be a good idea, I wonder what the thinking behind the restriction is, security liability is one possibility.


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## Pale Rider (1 Jan 2020)

Venod said:


> I agrree overnight parking at Park & Ride would be a good idea, I wonder what the thinking behind the restriction is, security liability is one possibility.



It may have been a sop to local residents at the planning stage.

As far as I can gather, there is nothing to stop you parking a car overnight at a York park and ride, but it would mean you couldn't drive the car away until the next morning when the man arrived to open the barrier.

York operates the 'free parking/paid bus fare' model, which also means you can dump your car there and go for a bike ride.


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## mjr (1 Jan 2020)

keithmac said:


> Have you been round York recently and had a look what's there?.


No but banning cars makes it more likely that I will! Why?


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## tom73 (1 Jan 2020)

On thing is clear York can't carry on centre of York is just not built for the ever growing traffic. 
One way or another business will and are suffering just like every other other high street. 
Some different thinking is needed along with some blood ideas. Sadly councils lack skills to do it and often makes it worse.
York BID should help making a start. 
As more high street names look to cut costs and move out high sheets have to offer something different having a car free centre together with shops offer something different within a medieval city is not a bad way to go. 
Off the main areas are some great funky and cool shops so it's not all quickly becoming Harry Potter land. Fossgate is one example inc home to a bike recycling shop. 
Some areas will need cars as with any city or town it needs people living within it. 
How it's done is key it's got to be worth a try and anything is better then the current looking over your shoulder ever 5 mins.


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## Venod (1 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> As far as I can gather, there is nothing to stop you parking a car overnight at a York park and ride



According to the rules you can't, but I don't know how its policed, do they tow your car or just lock it in ?

https://www.itravelyork.info/park-and-ride


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## mjr (1 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> It may have been a sop to local residents at the planning stage.


The residents the other side of the 24h supermarket's car park?



> As far as I can gather, there is nothing to stop you parking a car overnight at a York park and ride, but it would mean you couldn't drive the car away until the next morning when the man arrived to open the barrier.
> 
> York operates the 'free parking/paid bus fare' model, which also means you can dump your car there and go for a bike ride.


Nothing to stop you - other than a fine notice stuck on your car, which happened to me in another city, rescinded because I left after dinner, films and drinks (coffee for me!) at 0130 (automatic exit barrier) and they hadn't defined that as "overnight" anywhere.


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## tom73 (1 Jan 2020)

just lock it in i think not seen any signs saying otherwise.


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## BoldonLad (1 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> It may have been a sop to local residents at the planning stage.
> 
> As far as I can gather, there is *nothing to stop you parking a car overnight at a York park and ride*, but it would mean you couldn't drive the car away until the next morning when the man arrived to open the barrier.
> 
> York operates the 'free parking/*paid bus fare*' model, which also means you can dump your car there and go for a bike ride.



You may be right, I did not try it, just added to the city centre congestion by driving in. 

However, the helpful young lady on the "help" desk, told me, if I parked overnight, at the P&R, my car would be clamped. 

Being beyond my first flush of youth, I don't even have to pay the bus fare at the P&R


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## Venod (1 Jan 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Being beyond my first flush of youth, I don't even have to pay the bus fare at the P&R



It must have been a while since you used it, its £1.10 now, it was £1 for a long time, you don't need the ticket for coming back your concession pass is OK. this is using The Askham Bar P&R


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## Drago (1 Jan 2020)

Or it's free to walk, cycle, and cheap to get the bus. Hell, for the occasional journey a taxi is cheaper than buying a car.

Keith mac makes a fair observation about businesses, but then should businesses of that nature be based placed in such locations anyway?

Air pollution is a massive public health crisis, the vehicles themselves dangerous to non drivers, and a well know device for generally damaging the planet. It is sad that people worry about the effect on businesses and tourism more than they do about not killing people with air pollution, and the general wellbeing of the entire planet.

The realignment is coming, its happening. It's best to get beyind it and embrace it rather than think "well, I can drive 95% of the way and then park the car disguised as a skip out the back of B&Q." There's an object lesson in all our futures here and I fear a lot of people aren't learning it. The waves of rising sea levels will be lapping at their doorsteps and some people will still be thinking about driving a single digit length journey.

In Chinese the words "change" and "opportunity" use the same symbol. The more were resist, try to dodge, come up with wheezes to subvert the rules, the more it hurts us in the long run. The quicker we embrace, adapt, and move forward, the better the experience will be at every level for everyone.


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## mjr (1 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> The waves of rising sea levels will be lapping at their doorsteps and some people will still be thinking about driving a single digit length journey.


Yes, the Nene Valley is badly flooded this winter, isn't it? The meadows and then some!

I think I know what single digit those drivers are showing us!


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## BoldonLad (1 Jan 2020)

Venod said:


> It must have been a while since you used it, its £1.10 now, it was £1 for a long time, you don't need the ticket for coming back your concession pass is OK. this is using The Askham Bar P&R



It is two years since we visited York with the car, and stayed in hotel. Since then, we have visited twice in Motorhome, January 2019, and July 2019.

When visiting with Motorhome we used P&R, to travel into centre, without actually parking there, using Concessionary Pass.

One of the P&R we used was Askham Bar, the other, was on South side of York, I forget the name, but there was a large "Designer Outlet Centre" there.

When in Motorhome, we also had bicycles with us, and cycled into York, to Selby, and just generally around the area.


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## Pale Rider (1 Jan 2020)

Venod said:


> According to the rules you can't, but I don't know how its policed, do they tow your car or just lock it in ?
> 
> https://www.itravelyork.info/park-and-ride





BoldonLad said:


> You may be right, I did not try it, just added to the city centre congestion by driving in.
> 
> However, the helpful young lady on the "help" desk, told me, if I parked overnight, at the P&R, my car would be clamped.
> 
> Being beyond my first flush of youth, I don't even have to pay the bus fare at the P&R



It does looks like parking overnight is forbidden.

My guess is it is to prevent overnight camping in motorhomes, or people kipping in their cars.

I would still have an ask on the day if I wanted to do it, they can only say yes or no.


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## Randomnerd (1 Jan 2020)

York is my home. Clean air strategy is more complex than banning traffic. We are fast becoming a theme park, and the local authority allows itself to be seduced by developers who steadily turn this historic place into a coffee-drowned budget hotel room. 
Air quality is worst at taxi ranks and bus stops.
The peripheral roads to go round the city north to south by car are choked.
A tourist levy should be introduced to help fund clean taxis, buses and to encourage sustainable local trade back into the city centre.


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## BoldonLad (1 Jan 2020)

woodenspoons said:


> York is my home. Clean air strategy is more complex than banning traffic. We are fast becoming a theme park, and the local authority allows itself to be seduced by developers who steadily turn this historic place into a coffee-drowned budget hotel room.
> Air quality is worst at taxi ranks and bus stops.
> The peripheral roads to go round the city north to south by car are choked.
> A *tourist levy *should be introduced to help fund clean taxis, buses and to encourage sustainable local trade back into the city centre.



Don't all of the coffee shops, budget hotels, etc pay Business Rates?, which will be passed on the "user" be they local or Tourist. A portion of the Business Rates (as I understand it, York Council may retain upto 50% of the business rates income), should be used to fund necessary improvements.


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## tom73 (1 Jan 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> It is two years since we visited York with the car, and stayed in hotel. Since then, we have visited twice in Motorhome, January 2019, and July 2019.
> 
> When visiting with Motorhome we used P&R, to travel into centre, without actually parking there, using Concessionary Pass.
> 
> ...



if your looking for some place to stay over night for free when in that part of the world. Helmsley let you stay over night in the big carpark near the castle. Great place to spend a few hours in not to mention one or two nice pubs


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## Drago (1 Jan 2020)

woodenspoons said:


> York is my home. Clean air strategy is more complex than banning traffic. We are fast becoming a theme park, and the local authority allows itself to be seduced by developers who steadily turn this historic place into a coffee-drowned budget hotel room.
> Air quality is worst at taxi ranks and bus stops.
> The peripheral roads to go round the city north to south by car are choked.
> A tourist levy should be introduced to help fund clean taxis, buses and to encourage sustainable local trade back into the city centre.


Every penny the tourists spend is already taxed. If your local authority and the government don't then spend any of that income improving things locally then that's hardly the fault of the tourists.


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## Randomnerd (1 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> Every penny the tourists spend is already taxed. If your local authority and the government don't then spend any of that income improving things locally then that's hardly the fault of the tourists.


Of course it’s down to the LA to spend right. i understand how taxation works, and don’t mean to sell tickets to the place. 
York CC raised around £36m in business rates last year, and spent £1m on their Chief Exec team. Museums and heritage have to fight to stay alive, and have until recently been punished by rates. 
Good cities balance tourism, localism, trade and so forth toward a wellbeing economy. York continues to struggle with the balance. IMHO places are made distinctive and interesting by their people: I suppose global forces are at work...


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## Andy in Germany (2 Jan 2020)

keithmac said:


> We work inside the bar walls, I cycle in but as a business we need vehicles to pick up broken down motorcycles etc,
> 
> York Council seem to be hell bent on stripping any business that is not a Coffee Shop, Pub or Hotel out of the Centre.



That's why they are talking about removing private cars, not all vehicles. Your business would actually benefit because when you had to do a pickup you wouldn't get stuck behind half a dozen lost tourists in hire cars.



MarkF said:


> What does one bloke driving a vintage Mustang once a month, in summer, make? I do hope the rules are sensible.



Why do you need to drive through central York? Arguably, if you only drive there about six times a year, then it isn't an essential journey.



Mike_P said:


> The one issue with the York proposal is that it presumably takes all such vehicles off Station Road beyond the railway station so taking away a crossing of the Ouse hence forcing traffic on the north side of the city centre either further out to Clifton or to the south on Skeldergate Bridge near Clifford's Tower. Both potentially cause serious congestion issues on top of the existing in those locations. Or is the banning of such vehicles from within the city walls a headline that the details will show something different?



This comes under Induced Demand, the observed phenomenon that (applied to this situation) as more space is given to private cars, more journeys are made by private car, so you end up with a vicious cycle, or as one planner put it: "You sow roads, you reap traffic".

It is gradually being recognised, in the face of much screaming from the car lobby, that the reverse, called Reduced Demand, is also true, and the best way to reduce congestion is to reduce the space given to cars, or make it more expensive to use. When this happens people reduce the number of journeys made by car and switch to other forms of transport.



woodenspoons said:


> York is my home. Clean air strategy is more complex than banning traffic. We are fast becoming a theme park, and the local authority allows itself to be seduced by developers who steadily turn this historic place into a coffee-drowned budget hotel room.
> Air quality is worst at taxi ranks and bus stops.
> The peripheral roads to go round the city north to south by car are choked.
> A tourist levy should be introduced to help fund clean taxis, buses and to encourage sustainable local trade back into the city centre.



We have those in some places in Germany. The Black Forest levy costs about two euro and includes a train ticket for the entire Black Forest, which saved me about fifteen euro last time I was there. A levy in York that gives free use of the buses would be a great way to back up the ban on cars.

Incidentally, whenever a city has banned or reduced private cars in their centre they've found that local businesses profit because it is more pleasant for people to visit, so they have increased footfall, and those people stay longer and spend more.



keithmac said:


> Stop talking common sense, all the Tourists and Hen Parties will love it, why take York residents into account .



In practice people living within the city walls will most likely have an exemption: that's how we regulate this locally. This means that residents have the best of both worlds: they live in a city with low congestion, that is easy to get around without a car, but they still can use their car when they need it and won't get clogged up by tourists pootling about.

The car lobby uses the idea of a blanket ban as a bogeyman to get people to vote against it because they think, probably correctly, that once these things become successful it will be the beginning of the end of unfettered car use in the UK and Europe. Once one city manages to push this plan through and it is clearly successful, others will follow.

It is also noticeable here that whenever a city plans a 'car free' neighbourhood where a condition of moving there is to not own a car, there's usually a waiting list a mile long.

The basic problem facing local governments is that by definition everything you do which helps motorised traffic hinders pedestrians and residents, and vice versa. Therefore we can make towns and cities suitable for cars, or we can make them pleasant places to live and work: we can't have both.


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## BoldonLad (2 Jan 2020)

I don't see a problem with banning, and/or restricting (private) car use in any city, provided good quality public transport is made available, at an acceptable price.

The Socialist in me would prefer to see any "exceptions" based on need, rather than how deep the drivers pockets are.


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## gavroche (2 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Great idea, good on them. Up here, Edinburgh are talking about introducing a charge and Glasgow are bringing in low emissions from 2022 effectively banning the big polluters. Hopefully banning them altogether will be the next step.


Does that include lorries and buses too?


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## keithmac (2 Jan 2020)

Theres at least 2 more Hotels planned and the monstrosity that has been built in place of Hudson House, maybe banning the plebs from the City Centre was always part of the plan?.

Took this photo last year, it's just another 5 story tower block there now.


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## mjr (2 Jan 2020)

keithmac said:


> Theres at least 2 more Hotels planned and the monstrosity that has been built in place of Hudson House, maybe banning the plebs from the City Centre was always part of the plan?


On average, the ban will affect plebs less than the old men in limos!


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## Slick (2 Jan 2020)

gavroche said:


> Does that include lorries and buses too?


No point going in half-cocked. I don't know what the buses are like in York, but if they are anything like the buses in Glasgow, they would be the first thing I'd ban. Obviously alternatives would need to be in place first, same with trucks, but then I'm probably biased there as I do hate those things.


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## mickle (2 Jan 2020)

It's starting to look like my idea to start bicycle based plumbing service in York was a good one.




Fixing the stinky drain at my hairdresser's.


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## classic33 (2 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> No point going in half-cocked. I don't know what the buses are like in York, but if they are anything like the buses in Glasgow, they would be the first thing I'd ban. Obviously alternatives would need to be in place first, same with trucks, but then I'm probably biased there as I do hate those things.


Normal sized buses in use, more smaller buses required, including tour buses.


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## Slick (2 Jan 2020)

classic33 said:


> Normal sized buses in use, more smaller buses required, including tour buses.


Sounds reasonable, although diesel power has to go regardles.


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## classic33 (2 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Sounds reasonable, although diesel power has to go regardles.


Big vehicles and narrow streets don't really mix. Especially at junctions.


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## tom73 (2 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Sounds reasonable, although diesel power has to go regardles.



They are it turns out was in the news tonight. Clean air zone is coming current city centre fleet all going electric shorty. Harrogate went all electric a few years ago seams to work well they charge as they pull into the bus station stands. All over head and automatic quite seamless.


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## Mike_P (2 Jan 2020)

tom73 said:


> They are it turns out was in the news tonight. Clean air zone is coming current city centre fleet all going electric shorty. Harrogate went all electric a few years ago seams to work well they charge as they pull into the bus station stands. All over head and automatic quite seamless.


Two of the York Sightseeing buses have already been converted to electric and the Poppleton park and ride service is usually electric vehicles. Harrogate is only electric for four local routes (for just over a year), although not unknown for normal buses to turn up, plus sometimes the service along Nidderdale; the two electric vehicles that are supposed to work that service include one that was originally used for a York University service.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> Every penny the tourists spend is already taxed. If your local authority and the government don't then spend any of that income improving things locally then that's hardly the fault of the tourists.



LA only sees the money the government gives them they don't get a direct income from the tax.


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## tom73 (2 Jan 2020)

Maybe York can follow this idea 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50658537


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## Drago (3 Jan 2020)

tom73 said:


> Maybe York can follow this idea
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50658537


I think its brilliant, but the British lazy ass public will moan. Hell, this thread is full of committed cyclists who are more enlightened than the norm, yet some are still complaining about what York has coming, so such a utopian experiment seems doomed to meet a lot of bleating if it were tried here.


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## confusedcyclist (3 Jan 2020)

woodenspoons said:


> Of course it’s down to the LA to spend right. i understand how taxation works, and don’t mean to sell tickets to the place.
> York CC raised around £36m in business rates last year, and spent £1m on their Chief Exec team. Museums and heritage have to fight to stay alive, and have until recently been punished by rates.
> Good cities balance tourism, localism, trade and so forth toward a wellbeing economy. York continues to struggle with the balance. IMHO places are made distinctive and interesting by their people: I suppose global forces are at work...


You might like this book, it features localism and aftermath of the market economy, among other interesting topics. 
https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/surviving-the-future/


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## Randomnerd (3 Jan 2020)

https://www.yorkmix.com/police-release-pictures-after-aggressive-cyclist-abuses-york-bus-driver/

Anyone? No, I have an alibi. I was in reading CC.

It’s war out there!


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (3 Jan 2020)

woodenspoons said:


> https://www.yorkmix.com/police-release-pictures-after-aggressive-cyclist-abuses-york-bus-driver/
> 
> Anyone? No, I have an alibi. I was in reading CC.
> 
> It’s war out there!



The man is described as

*white*
*roughly 5ft 10ins tall*
*with short, grey receding hair*
*and a grey, short beard.*
Jeremy? Is that you?


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## Slioch (3 Jan 2020)

woodenspoons said:


> https://www.yorkmix.com/police-release-pictures-after-aggressive-cyclist-abuses-york-bus-driver/
> 
> Anyone? No, I have an alibi. I was in reading CC.
> 
> It’s war out there!



Wasn't me either - I was washing my hair guv.

The article doesn't give any info as to what may have caused the incident, but I wonder if it could be linked to the bus making inappropriate use of the ASL for cyclists at traffic lights?

My personal experience of being a regular cyclist in York is that far too many bus drivers regard the ASL as being their own personal territory (yes First Bus, I'm talking about your so-called "professional" drivers here).

I know someone who used to be a bus driver and we talked about this, and they basically admitted that they did it in an attempt to prevent cyclists getting ahead of them, as they knew it would be almost impossible for them to subsequently overtake the cyclist on the narrow streets in the centre of York.

Just for balance, it's not just the buses that abuse the ASL's in York. You can also include taxi's, vans, BMW's, Audi's etc etc.


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