# Road bike for cycle camping



## westcoaster (21 Apr 2011)

Hope you guys can help me. I've recently bought my first drop bar road bike (a Trek Pilot 2.0, alu frame, carbon forks, 27 speed) and I'm thinking about doing a short camping tour, maybe two to three nights. I've done similar before on a steel Dawes Sardar but I sold that on and now I'm wondering if the Trek will be OK. I've fitted a rear rack which can take max. load of 25 kg but I won't carry anywhere near that.

The tyres are 25mm 700C and the wheels are 32 spoke. I'm thinking of fitting 28mm Conti Contacts. I'll be carrying tent (3kg), thermarest trail lite (1kg), sleeping bag (not bought it yet but say 1.7 kg - recommendations welcome), plus a gas stove, basic cooking and eating tools, camera, phone etc. in a bar bag, minimum clothes and toiletries. Rear panniers are Altura dryline 56.

Do you think I'm expecting too much of the bike? My feeling is that if it's designed to take a rack it should be OK as long as the wheels are up to it but I'd welcome your comments.

Happy days, now that the sun is shining!


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## aberal (21 Apr 2011)

32 spokes should be fine, but you'd be better/safer with 36. So I'd suggest prepare for the worst and take some spare spokes. The frame should be ok.


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## vernon (21 Apr 2011)

I've toured on a road bike using 25mm tyres. As I probably weigh the same if not more than you plus your bike and your luggage, the 32 spoke wheels on the bike coped ok though there was some flex in the frame and the gearing was a tad high as it had no granny ring. If you a are light camping you will get away with it.

You might find the bottom gear a bit too high when you are climbing hills but you can always use the 24" gear i.e. two feet.


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## westcoaster (21 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the comments so far. I'm not too heavy myself at 78 kg soaking wet so hopefully that will mitigate the stresses on the rear wheel.


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## alecstilleyedye (22 Apr 2011)

get a trailer, if funds permit. i've got a burley encore that i use for ferrying two small kids around, but which i have also used for cargo.

burley do a proper touring trailer, that would be ideal. 

the advantage of a trailer is that the bike feels like a regular bike in terms of handling and you can forget it's there if you don't look at your speedo too often.


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## Paladin - York (22 Apr 2011)

Hi westcoaster,

Re sleeping bag - for the UK, April - October, I usually take my Mountain Equipment helium 250, recommended sleep zone +25C - 0C, 700+ down. Weight - not sure but light and easily fits into a side pannier. Will be using it in May, Cape Wrath to York.

Good luck



westcoaster said:


> Hope you guys can help me. I've recently bought my first drop bar road bike (a Trek Pilot 2.0, alu frame, carbon forks, 27 speed) and I'm thinking about doing a short camping tour, maybe two to three nights. I've done similar before on a steel Dawes Sardar but I sold that on and now I'm wondering if the Trek will be OK. I've fitted a rear rack which can take max. load of 25 kg but I won't carry anywhere near that.
> 
> The tyres are 25mm 700C and the wheels are 32 spoke. I'm thinking of fitting 28mm Conti Contacts. I'll be carrying tent (3kg), thermarest trail lite (1kg), sleeping bag (not bought it yet but say 1.7 kg - recommendations welcome), plus a gas stove, basic cooking and eating tools, camera, phone etc. in a bar bag, minimum clothes and toiletries. Rear panniers are Altura dryline 56.
> 
> ...


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## willem (22 Apr 2011)

Road bikes are a bad idea for touring, and particularly with camping gear. They may break down, the gearing is too high, and they will not handle very well. Now that you have one, the thing is to take as little as possible (aim for 10 kg max). However, your gear does seem to be on the heavy side. 3 kg for a solo tent is heavy (about 1 kg is the norm for ultralight), current state of the art mattresses like the Thrmarest Neoair are 400-500 grams, and a sleeping bag should be about 500 grams (e.g Phd design). If you want a cheaper but still light bag, the Alpkit Pipedream 400 is your best bet. Ortlieb do special edition lighter (and somewhat cheaper) panniers: http://www.outdoorworks.de/index.php?site=index.html&prod=7337&vid=86748&function=set_lang&lang=en
Willem


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## Jerry Atrik (22 Apr 2011)

I cant believe you got rid of your Dawes Sardar , one of the best touring bikes ever , in my humble opinion .


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## frank9755 (22 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> Road bikes are a bad idea for touring, and particularly with camping gear. They may break down, the gearing is too high, and they will not handle very well. Now that you have one, the thing is to take as little as possible (aim for 10 kg max). However, your gear does seem to be on the heavy side. 3 kg for a solo tent is heavy (about 1 kg is the norm for ultralight), current state of the art mattresses like the Thrmarest Neoair are 400-500 grams, and a sleeping bag should be about 500 grams (e.g Phd design). If you want a cheaper but still light bag, the Alpkit Pipedream 400 is your best bet. Ortlieb do special edition lighter (and somewhat cheaper) panniers: http://www.outdoorwo...et_lang&lang=en
> Willem



Agree with that. I've upgraded my camping kit in the last year (using input from some of Willem's suggestions from various posts, so thank-you!). I went on a tour last week carrying about half the weight of my previous camping tour a year ago. My Terra Nova Laser Competition tent is just 1kg and Alpkit Pipedream 400 is 0.75kg - and are also great quality for my needs.


Better still if you can ditch the rack / panniers and get your luggage in a saddlebag. Weight too far back on a short wheelbase bike can make for some interesting handling on twisty descents


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## aberal (22 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> Road bikes are a bad idea for touring, and particularly with camping gear. They may break down, the gearing is too high, and they will not handle very well.



The Trek Pilot 2.0 has a triple chainset 50/39/30 so the gearing is not too high for a 2-3 night tour, which is what the OP is talking about. Assuming he is not touring the Alps.  

Do agree though about trying to keep the weight down - the 3kg tent in particular is a tad too heavy, and not just that. If you are carrying only two panniers I'd guess that you would pretty much fill them with tent/sleeping bag/mat. If you are travelling solo, in Summer, just under 30 quid would get your this Gelert  at 1.5kg. Pack size of the tent is another thing to consider as longish poles can be a tad tricky to stow away. So long as you can keep the weight as low as possible, a short trip handling on the "relaxed" geometry of the Trek would be acceptable. Idealy, though, you might want to ditch the cooking equipment and eat out.


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## frank9755 (22 Apr 2011)

aberal said:


> The Trek Pilot 2.0 has a triple chainset 50/39/30 so the gearing is not too high for a 2-3 night tour, which is what the OP is talking about. Assuming he is not touring the Alps.



But only a 26T on the back. I wouldn't want to tour on that gearing and Scotland is hardly flat!


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## willem (22 Apr 2011)

The volume of the tent does not matter that much for me: I keep it on top of the rack rather than inside the panniers. Tents are made to get wet, and if and when they are I do not want them with my sleeping bag and dry clothes. The volume of the sleeping bag and the mattress are far more important for me. As for cooking, a few nights of eating out will cost as much as pretty fancy cooking kit.
willem


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## tbtb (22 Apr 2011)

The bike's fine. Trek rated it to 275kg (according to another forum) so you've room to spare, and it has quite relaxed angles I think so it's not tooooo twitchy. Keep the gear to a minimum and you'll enjoy the weight advantages on hills. 

Having said that, your list sounds heavy, fine on the Sardar but a bit of a load on a more flexy bike. The tent, sleeping bag, mat are all more than twice the weight I am aiming for (on a similar bike) and you're adding an 800g bar bag also and taking the kitchen gear. Ideally you'd replace the lot but seeing as you didn't ask us for shopping advice really, I'll limit my shopping advice to £50. 

I'd consider losing the bar bag, fitting everything in those big panniers and putting the tent on top of the rack. If you have a wee velcro-attaching underseat bag, put it on the handlebars if you want easy access to a camera etc.

The big advantage of your current mat is on rocky ground in winter. I'd consider spending £15 for a cheap foam sleeping mat (200g), perfect in summer on soft ground. For £30 you get 3/4 length thin version of the thermarest (other brands available nowadays at lower price, slightly heavier) if budgets are flexible.

I'd consider the tent options but might stick with the big fellow this time. It's no doubt very spacious! Interesting point - it's sometimes cheaper and better to have two cheaper items rather than one do-it-all. Two tents, one tiny, low to ground £50 and the other a cheap festival dome tent, for example, would cover _some_ people's needs better than a £500 Hilleberg. For only 2 nights away, in fair weather, you might grab a £20 festival dome tent. Importantly, this one is 1.8kg. It's only 2 nights. Worst case, it pours and you stay dry. Oh, no that's the best case. Worst case, you have a great story to tell. But it's cheap, light, spacious. Lots of headroom!

I'd bin the 1.7kg sleeping bag idea. The Alpkit mentioned above is ideal for 3 season use (full length zip allows some temp control if too hot) but it's £130 and out of stock. You can go much cheaper (and a bit lighter) if you figure it's just for warmer weather.

I'd review the cooking also. Perhaps you know where you'll camp and google tells you of catered options (pub food etc). Or, just for tea and the fun of the process, my current temptation is the 13g *Titanium Esbit Stove* (£8). You have to add a pot/cup/windshield/fuel tabs and apparently it's as fast as gas, if less flexible - you can't extinguish them once they're going I think). Neat kits where it all packs away well are available but I'm in early days researching this.


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## Muddyfox (22 Apr 2011)

Jerry Atrik said:


> I cant believe you got rid of your Dawes Sardar , one of the best touring bikes ever , in my humble opinion .



You are very biased though Jerry


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## doog (22 Apr 2011)

I would be very careful using a standard road 32 spoke wheel and carrying that weight. I was touring with rear panniers only and like you a 3kg + tent on a Tricross. I dont know what wheels you have but I hit a pot hole, broke a spoke and wrecked the wheel, miles from anywhere. I limped home with a severely damaged wheel that had to be binned.

Simple beginners mistake that I wont be making again. I have invested in a stronger rear wheel (36 spoke) and cut 1.2kg (and the rest) on changing the tent to a Vaude Hogan Ultralite.

I also found that with rear panniers only the bike was too heavy at the rear for that sort of bike ie road / CX (although mine is heavier than yours- see how you get on). Its flexes like mad on the hills.

End result m investing in a Surly Long Haul trucker which I will build up but in the mean time using the Tricross with lighter gear, better wheels to do a Spain to UK tour...still dont feel 100% happy about the bike though.( Theres nothing worse than having no confidence in your bike!)


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## corshamjim (22 Apr 2011)

I just want to say thank you WestCoaster for raising this subject and everyone for helpful replies. I'm off camping with my Trek 2.1 next week. I think I'll find a much lighter tent to take and ditch the idea of taking the Trangia and all that entails.


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## westcoaster (22 Apr 2011)

Thanks guys, all good stuf. The bike does have a granny ring, although not wholly ideal touring gearing. The tent is a two man Vango Shadow 200 so it's a bit too much for my purposes but, hey, why be cramped. I could invest in titanium tent pegs to shave a bit off. I'm maybe wild camping, no plan at the moment other than to get the ferry over to Dunoon and head west until I get weary, see what happens, so a stove is necessary. I will need to be careful about pot holes as the poster above says. I bought a 28mm Schwalbe Marathon today for the back wheel, and a spoke tightening tool will be a good idea. We'll give it a go and report back. 
Cheers!


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## sleekitcollie (22 Apr 2011)

doog said:


> I also found that with rear panniers only the bike was too heavy at the rear for that sort of bike ie road / CX (although mine is heavier than yours- see how you get on). Its flexes like mad on the hills.



have u fitted front panniers on the tricross . im wondering if the handling will be ok , ( hoping it will be ) , i recent test trip with my loaded tricross rear panniers only was great , steady ride , but i put a bar bag on for my trip ( not heavy ) and bike handled really bad , downhils were just frightning very unstable


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## andym (23 Apr 2011)

Lots of sensible advice here. As far as 32 spokes versus 36 spokes is concerned - i've toured off-road fully-loaded on 32-spoke wheels and lived to tell the tale. I now have 36 spokes on the back wheel. If you were asking for advice on what wheel to buy I'd say 36 spokes but I'm sure you'll be fine on 32-spoke wheels - I'd spend the money on a lighter tent and sleeping bag.

Titanium tent pegs can be a real disappointment - it you are camping in sites with hard ground you may end up breaking/bending so many that any weight saving is negated. Personally I'd go for a nail pegs (eg Alpkit.com) and/or alumnium Y-pegs. Don't waste money on titanium v-pegs (especially the ons wth holes in - they're fine for soft grond but nothing else). And as for the stupid rubbish that some tent manufacturers produce - just don't bother.


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## psmiffy (23 Apr 2011)

andym said:


> Lots of sensible advice here. As far as 32 spokes versus 36 spokes is concerned - i've toured off-road fully-loaded on 32-spoke wheels and lived to tell the tale. I now have 36 spokes on the back wheel. If you were asking for advice on what wheel to buy I'd say 36 spokes but I'm sure you'll be fine on 32-spoke wheels - I'd spend the money on a lighter tent and sleeping bag.



At the risk of being called uneducated  I would agree that as a general rule that 36 spokes is a good number for a touring wheel - however I do not think it is quite as simple as that - on my first serious tour I used 32H cross country mountain bike wheels and on returning to the UK only about 60% of the spokes were origonal - or intact for that matter - For the next tour I replaced the rear with a hand built 36H of the same ilk - fewer spokes were beaking but there was a significant number that were pulling through the rim - at that point I abandoned my LBS and bought a hand built 36H mtb downhill rim which survived intact until the bike itself failed.

A touring wheel really wants to be a combination of a decent number of spokes (36H) and a strongish rim - weight penalty but well worth it


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## andym (23 Apr 2011)

OK it's a fair cop guv [holds hands up above head] I should have said "36 spokes, built by a specialist wheelbuilder, with decent spokes, and a decent rim'. But if you already have a 32-spoke wheels and you planning a road tour on mormal roads you don't need to rush outand buy new ones.


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## tbtb (23 Apr 2011)

psmiffy said:


> At the risk of being called uneducated  I would agree that as a general rule that 36 spokes is a good number for a touring wheel - however I do not think it is quite as simple as that - on my first serious tour I used 32H cross country mountain bike wheels and on returning to the UK only about 60% of the spokes were origonal - or intact for that matter - For the next tour I replaced the rear with a hand built 36H of the same ilk - fewer spokes were beaking but there was a significant number that were pulling through the rim - at that point I abandoned my LBS and bought a hand built 36H mtb downhill rim which survived intact until the bike itself failed.


But am I right in thinking that this stuff was happening when your total load was 133kg as per your cgob pages?

Beautiful spacious looking tent , that msr one, by the way!


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## psmiffy (23 Apr 2011)

tbtb said:


> But am I right in thinking that this stuff was happening when your total load was 133kg as per your cgob pages?
> 
> Beautiful spacious looking tent , that msr one, by the way!



Actually in those days I did not carry very much at all - two medium-ish (by my standards) panniers, smallish light tent, very little cooking stuff, not enough incidentals like adequate clothes, sufficient waterproofs, lights and electronic paraphanalia - 

I was to some extent a little paranoid about weight, but suffice it to say once I had some decent wheels I went over to the dark side and have never looked back

The tent is brilliant - almost freestanding - lots of space to keep things seperate when it is deluging - a brilliant form factor - whilst with most two man tents you sleep along the axis of the tent with that MSR you sleep perpendicular to the axis - creates more space in the "vestible" when I am cooking - it grieves me that it is time expired and no longer in production


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## bigjim (24 Apr 2011)

> Road bikes are a bad idea for touring,


Ermmm. Nobody told this guy.
My link


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## peelywally (27 Apr 2011)

i personally wouldnt use a roadie for touring ,

i use a rigid mtb frame with skinny tyres toiugh as nails no major reduction in speed and gearings great for hauling luggage up a hill in the rain into a headwind , and you can cycle across fields to the perfect spot .

my total weight for gear is around 10kg split between two panniers its easy to handle and well balanced i could add front panniers but ive no idea what id fill them with tbh ,

ive recently got some trekking bars for the summer season to replace the original fsa bar, at some point i will replace front forks with carbon ones but im using kona ones for now that replaced the rockshock darts .

in total i think i have shaved around 5kg off original weight of bike so im only loading an extra 5kgs which is vg and doesnt stress the wheels at all .
just read link above


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## peelywally (27 Apr 2011)

corshamjim said:


> I just want to say thank you WestCoaster for raising this subject and everyone for helpful replies. I'm off camping with my Trek 2.1 next week. I think I'll find a much lighter tent to take and ditch the idea of taking the Trangia and all that entails.






take the trangias burner you can arrange rocks into a pot stand , thats what i do works a treat and youl wonder why the rest of the stove was ever made .


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## corshamjim (27 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the tip. There's a kitchen available where I'm going this weekend, but I'll remember the advice for the next tour which I'll be doing on the Pashley - for that one I have the option of towing the trailer so I can take the kitchen sink if I don't mind dragging it up the hills.


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## samid (29 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> Road bikes are a bad idea for touring, and particularly with camping gear.



Does this:





count as a road bike?

Never had any serious problems with it (knock on wood) during my three tours (2 in Scotland).

(During my last tour, the total load was about 20kg - 14 in the back, the rest in the front.)


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## willem (29 Apr 2011)

Nice Riv indeed. I don't think it counts as the kind of roadbike that I had in mind. It is what road bikes once were, and perhaps should be again. However, even with this bike I would probably prefer lighter load.

Willem


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## samid (29 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> Nice Riv indeed. I don't think it counts as the kind of roadbike that I had in mind. It is what road bikes once were, and perhaps should be again. However, even with this bike I would probably prefer lighter load.


Hi Willem,
Yes I totally agree that it is nice 

As for the weight - I had some rather heavy photo gear, plus of course camping etc. And while it would've been nice to have less weight to tag along it was not too bad. Not bad at all in fact  - but of course, no offroading with that bike/load.


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## peelywally (30 Apr 2011)

corshamjim said:


> Thanks for the tip. There's a kitchen available where I'm going this weekend, but I'll remember the advice for the next tour which I'll be doing on the Pashley - for that one I have the option of towing the trailer so I can take the kitchen sink if I don't mind dragging it up the hills.


theres nothing in rule book about getting off and pushing sometimes


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## corshamjim (1 May 2011)

I gave up on using the road bike and loaded up the trailer instead.


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## westcoaster (9 Jul 2011)

So guys, I thought I'd update this topic now that I've completed the wee tour. 150 miles over three days. I carried two rear panniers plus a tent on the back rack and a bar bag up front. The total weight was about 15kg (incl. the panniers and bar bag) and there were no problems except for one flat front tyre which I foolishly did not change to Schwalbe Marathon as I did to the rear tyre. No handling problems at all, the bike was stable downhill at speed.
Conclusion - If you're thinking about it, go for it. Granted there were weight savings I could have made and with a bit more expense I could get down to 13-14 kg but I don't feel it's such a big deal now. 
If anyone is interested we did:-
Inellan to Tayinloan via Portavadie-Tarbert ferry.
Ferry to Gigha - camped overnight.
Tayinloan south to Campbeltown - north to Carradale Bay - camped ovenight.
Carradale Bay to Claonaig - ferry to Lochranza
Lochranza then down west coast of Arran to near Blacwaterfoot.
Over the String Road to Brodick
Ferry to Ardrossan - biked to Largs where wife picked us up for the easy way home.
Average speed 10 mph.


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## bigjim (9 Jul 2011)

Where are the pics?


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## Arch (10 Jul 2011)

bigjim said:


> Ermmm. Nobody told this guy.
> My link



*"Cooking*. No cooking utensils. I can survive on cold, dry food for a couple of days until I get to the restorant or some other form of eatery. If the restorant is expensive, I extend cold food treatment for another couple of days. I can't emphasize enough the importance of this: there's no cooker, no mugs, no pots, no plates, no cutlery, no fuel, no fuel container, no cleaning utensils, no bags for storing all this junk, no additional cooking water and no bags of raw, useless food. In addition, you don't waste your time in cooking, cleaning and searching for fuel and can concentrate on cycling instead. And there's a thing less to be broken. There are only two things I need from all these: a plastic tea spoon and a plastic toothpick (see the picture) - taken from the meal served on the plane. Both weigh about the resolution of my scale (2 g). I cary both in the back pocket of the cycling jersey - you never know when an opportunity for a good meal will come, so you better be prepared. "

What a miserable sounding existance! The fact that he regards cooking as a 'waste of time' immediately makes me think we wouldn't get on....


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## bigjim (10 Jul 2011)

> What a miserable sounding existance! The fact that he regards cooking as a 'waste of time' immediately makes me think we wouldn't get on....


Everybody to their own of course. I can't see how it is a miserable existance. Less is more sometimes. We have just been conditioned to desire hot food. His happiness stems from riding the bike and eating out. maybe he has more fun meeting people in a restaraunt than sitting alone stirring a bowl of gruel in a tent. Plus much of his travel is in Asia where it is not worth carrying all the cooking gear as eating out is so cheap.


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## Angelfishsolo (10 Jul 2011)

westcoaster said:


> So guys, I thought I'd update this topic now that I've completed the wee tour. 150 miles over three days. I carried two rear panniers plus a tent on the back rack and a bar bag up front. The total weight was about 15kg (incl. the panniers and bar bag) and there were no problems except for one flat front tyre which I foolishly did not change to Schwalbe Marathon as I did to the rear tyre. No handling problems at all, the bike was stable downhill at speed.
> Conclusion - If you're thinking about it, go for it. Granted there were weight savings I could have made and with a bit more expense I could get down to 13-14 kg but I don't feel it's such a big deal now.
> If anyone is interested we did:-
> Inellan to Tayinloan via Portavadie-Tarbert ferry.
> ...



This has been a very interesting thread. I am awaiting delivery of my 1st road bike and have been thinking about fitting panniers using p-clips or a seat-post clamp. Sounds like a similar bike in terms of wheels and gears so I found this post most pleasing to read


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## Arch (10 Jul 2011)

bigjim said:


> Everybody to their own of course. I can't see how it is a miserable existance. Less is more sometimes. We have just been conditioned to desire hot food. His happiness stems from riding the bike and eating out. maybe he has more fun meeting people in a restaraunt than sitting alone stirring a bowl of gruel in a tent. Plus much of his travel is in Asia where it is not worth carrying all the cooking gear as eating out is so cheap.



Well, of course, we're all different. I just can't ever regard cooking as a waste of time. I expect he can go more than 10 miles without a cafe stop too....


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## TheDoctor (10 Jul 2011)

I have to say, if I was solo touring I wouldn't do much cooking. I'd be a dab hand at finding cheap places to get good food though 
I'm also firmly of the 'load it up, ride it and see what happens' school of thought.
If my carbon race bike will cope with a 105 kg rider, it'll cope with 80 kg of rider and a saddlebag full of stuff.


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## 007fair (10 Jul 2011)

I had a thread on this type of subject a while back 
GIANT SCR2 Tourer? 
After advice from that thread I decided to keep the SCR2 (which is similar to the OP's Bike) for light tours. Haven't got round to LEJOG yet though


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## tbtb (10 Jul 2011)

I'm just back from 1200 miles in France on a road bike. I'm 11 stones, the bike is 10kg (Genesis Aether), with 7 or 8kg of kit (incl shoes on feet). All went fine, no wobbles, creaks, spoke issues.

Of course the weight would leap when I'd carry water but I was at minimum weight when pedalling over the top of the Aubisque and when carrying the bike+kit at shoulder height through a London train carriage to get past a broken exit door!

I thought I might miss cooking but it was very hot so I tried to get up and out by 7 in the morning and I would pedal on until 9pm in the cooler evening, so there wasn't much sitting around time other than in the boiling hot middle part of the day.


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## blockend (11 Jul 2011)

Good food is one of the delights of camping. The smells, the taste, selecting it at a street market are a main part of the whole experience for us. We take a few key herbs and spices in film cassettes and buy some plonk to cook in.

Cyclists usually fall into the ascetic or voluptuary camp and I'm definitely the latter.


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## willem (11 Jul 2011)

For very short trips I sometimes forego cooked meals. France, moreover, offers many possibilities for nice cold food. A quiche, some slices of ham, a French bread and a salad, plus some cheese will see me through the evening, with a bottle of wine. On the other hand, for a longer trip I really like the delights of cooked meals, and a few cups of nice Italian coffee in the morning. A stove like the Caldera Cone could be an ultralight compromise. Replying to the wider theme of fast bikes for touring, yes it can be done, provided the wheels are not too fragile. However, in this vein I think an audax bike would be far preferable: mudguards, 32 mm tyres, and a slightly more relaxed geometry. I fact, I often wonder why many people ever buy full out modern roadbikes rather than audax bikes. Most of them do not ever compete at the levels where the slight difference in speed matters.

Willem


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## John the Monkey (11 Jul 2011)

psmiffy said:


> A touring wheel really wants to be a combination of a decent number of spokes (36H) and a strongish rim - weight penalty but well worth it



36 will give you more limp-ability if one spoke goes (there are still 35 to hold the wheel true, not 31  )

I'm not sure that there's a vast difference in strength though (assuming the wheels are built equally well, and that the 32h rim isn't some ridiculous race weight confection - it almost certainly isn't).


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