# Garden Waste



## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Does your local authority collect it for free?? do you take it yourself to the dump?? or do you pay to have it removed as part of your gardening service??

if the latter, why??


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

About fifty quid a year for fortnightly green bin collection by the council / Veolia between March and October. I think that's high compared to some parts of the country but it is what it is.


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## lazybloke (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> About fifty quid a year for fortnightly green bin collection by the council / Veolia between March and October. I think that's high compared to some parts of the country but it is what it is.


Think ours is a similar price for year round fortnightly collections, although it's been suspended for months due to "HGV driver shortgage"


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

Ours collects it for free. Between the start of March and end of November, they automatically collect once a fortnight (alternating with black bags). December - February you have to phone if you need any collecting.

We are given several green canvas (plastic) sacks which we put out on the kerb and they are emptied. Anything too big to fit in those (such as tree branches), you have to take to the council recycling centre yourself.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Think ours is a similar price for year round fortnightly collections, although it's been suspended for months due to "HGV driver shortgage"


They never suspended ours, but they were late quite often for the same reason. Our collection day is Friday, and several times it was Saturday or Sunday before they came, with just once missing a collection entirely.


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Think ours is a similar price for year round fortnightly collections, although it's been suspended for months due to "HGV driver shortgage"


Ours missed a few but they tag them on to the end of the season to make up for it. It's not much use to us in the middle of November though.


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## Kingfisher101 (6 Dec 2021)

We have the brown bin collection once a fortnight but it knocks a lot. Have a bonfire if you have a lot of stuff, but tell the neighbours first and do it in the evening.


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

I compost all the green and household waste along with paper and cardboard that I can. Why throw away free natural compost, nutrients and soil conditioner?

Twigs, branches etc. are dried, logged and stored for kindling and firewood.

Uncompostable and unusable waste, that is takes more than a year to break down, such as prunings, herbaceous stalks and stems go in the green bin. It's £35pa for local authority collection.


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## fossyant (6 Dec 2021)

Green waste all year round, but it includes food scraps - should be no food waste in the black bins. All free (well Council Tax).

Garden waste is generally composted. I've got a branch muncher, that turns branches into chippings, so we will re-use those in the garden. Grass cuttings go in the compost. Weeds, and laurel cuttings go in the green bin for re-cycling.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> We have the brown bin collection once a fortnight but it knocks a lot. Have a bonfire if you have a lot of stuff, but tell the neighbours first and do it in the evening.


we get ours collected for free.......

my query was due to someone paying for garden work, trim bushes, trim some over hanging branches from neighbours garden and cut the grass and then on top pay for the removal of said garden waste.....so in all it cost £180 for 4hrs ( 1 person )........£45 an hour, to which they said was a bargain


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we get ours collected for free.......
> 
> my query was due to someone paying for garden work, trim bushes, trim some over hanging branches from neighbours garden and cut the grass and then on top pay for the removal of said garden waste.....so in all it cost £180 for 4hrs ( 1 person )........£45 an hour, to which they said was a bargain


Sounds reasonable to me if the person carrying out the work was a true professional. I see a lot of "gardeners" around and would question their knowledge.

Commercial waste disposal is far more expensive than household waste even if it comes from the same garden.


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

If it's a tradesperson I'd expect waste removal to be part of the service and it not to be particularly cheaper for them to leave it. They might want to feel like they've done a professional job and leave it tidy. If it's big stuff like branches they'll be able to just lob it in the back of the van but to get it in a green bin it might need to be broken down. We had to hire a woodchipper when we cut our hedge back and it took several trips to the tip plus a couple of months worth of green bins to finally get rid of it all.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> If it's a tradesperson I'd expect waste removal to be part of the service and it not to be particularly cheaper for them to leave it. They might want to feel like they've done a professional job and leave it tidy. If it's big stuff like branches they'll be able to just lob it in the back of the van but to get it in a green bin it might need to be broken down. We had to hire a woodchipper when we cut our hedge back and it took several trips to the tip plus a couple of months worth of green bins to finally get rid of it all.


personally - i would get a quote without removal and break it all down myself and save a chunk of money......one thing i aint paying for is something to be removed, that i already pay for in my council tax.....


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Sounds reasonable to me if the person carrying out the work was a true professional. I see a lot of "gardeners" around and would question their knowledge.
> 
> *Commercial waste disposal is far more expensive* than household waste even if it comes from the same garden.


which is why i wouldnt pay for the removal......would break it all down and get the council to remove it, as part of my council tax service


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## fossyant (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> personally - i would get a quote without removal and break it all down myself and save a chunk of money......one thing i aint paying for is something to be removed, that i already pay for in my council tax.....



They could easily break it down over a couple of 'green waste' collections. £45 an hour for gardening is steep. £25 max ?


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> They could easily break it down over a couple of 'green waste' collections. £45 an hour for gardening is steep. £25 max ?


maybe it was in that there larrrrndon place, were everything is triple the price to the rest of the world.....

not only that the person is a long time member of a gardening forum that i use for help lol


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> They could easily break it down over a couple of 'green waste' collections. £45 an hour for gardening is steep. £25 max ?


Really? How much would you expect a plumber or electrician to charge? Probably £50 for a call out.

A professional gardener will have a great deal of knowledge and experience. It should be paid for.


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## Dave7 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Does your local authority collect it for free?? do you take it yourself to the dump?? or do you pay to have it removed as part of your gardening service??
> 
> if the latter, why??


We have to pay £35 per year for the green bin (garden waste) and (get this!!!) If you pay by phone its an extra £5 admin charge.
Its wrong imo as we already pay council charges.
Spring just gone their computer was playing up so I had to pay by phone and the b*stards still charged me the £5.
We have quite large gardens and the green bin is jammed full so taking it to the dump is not feasible.


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## Time Waster (6 Dec 2021)

Free collection fortnightly. Green bin. We have one that gets filled but others have two. Need more. We're clearing a large garden that can with our new house. We're not through the big clear up.

We've just had the last collection of the year until February. We ran out of time and bins so we still have a garden of leaves and debris. We have 300 plus litre sacks and an old banger we only use as a skip car. It takes 3 bags plus tree trunks and branches in the gaps. We'll be doing those trips all winter when we have time.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> which is why i wouldnt pay for the removal......would break it all down and get the council to remove it, as part of my council tax service


Our Council will no longer (from early next year) provide this service without an annual fee.


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## Dave7 (6 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> They could easily break it down over a couple of 'green waste' collections. £45 an hour for gardening is steep. £25 max ?


We have 2 gardeners that come once a fortnight. They work very hard. Charge for them is £35 per hour so reasonable.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Really? How much would you expect a plumber or electrician to charge? Probably £50 for a call out.
> 
> A professional gardener will have a great deal of knowledge and experience. It should be paid for.


we just talking grass cutting and hedge trimming, not exactly needing a pro for that


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Our Council will no longer (from early next year) provide this service without an annual fee.


we pay an annual fee - its called council tax


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we pay an annual fee - its called council tax


Rather obviously.

So do I.

This will no longer be included in the services we receive for payment of CT.

ETA
It's presumably a Statutory Service (I guess) but can be funded separately to the CT.

ETFA
But very short-sighted and counter to the prevailing ethos of the times. Councils have a Statutory Duty to clear fly-tipping. It won't take much to more than counterbalance the revenue gained by charging punters for green waste collection.


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> personally - i would get a quote without removal and break it all down myself and save a chunk of money......one thing i aint paying for is something to be removed, that i already pay for in my council tax.....


Depends how much you value your time I suppose. We needed a day's annual leave and woodchipper hire so that's a cost in both time and money.


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## Kingfisher101 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we get ours collected for free.......
> 
> my query was due to someone paying for garden work, trim bushes, trim some over hanging branches from neighbours garden and cut the grass and then on top pay for the removal of said garden waste.....so in all it cost £180 for 4hrs ( 1 person )........£45 an hour, to which they said was a bargain


I think that's o.k. I had a massive holly bush taken up off my meadow, taken away and the stump ground out.Also 5 stumps of shrubs cut down and ground out, a big lilac trimmed and shaped and all the stuff taken away for £150. I was quoted previously £250-£300 plus vat by another company. I strimmed my own meadow for £45.00 which was hire if the strimmer and put the clippings in the brown bin and the neighbours.
We get the brown bin collected for free but you cant put any soil in it or big trees cuttings.They wouldn't take that holly bush for example.


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## All uphill (6 Dec 2021)

We have two composters and a big compost heap; logs and branches go on a pile.

Sloworms love the compost heap, insects and spiders love the log pile, and the birds love the insects. We get loads of lovely compost and enjoy watching the birds.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> I think that's o.k. I had a massive holly bush taken up off my meadow, taken away and the stump ground out.Also 5 stumps of shrubs cut down and ground out, a big lilac trimmed and shaped and all the stuff taken away for £150. I was quoted previously £250-£300 plus vat by another company. I strimmed my own meadow for £45.00 which was hire if the strimmer and put the clippings in the brown bin and the neighbours.
> We get the brown bin collected for free but you cant put any soil in it or big trees cuttings.They wouldn't take that holly bush for example.


i cut a huge bush down and then cut all the long branches into shorter ones to fit in the bag, took me weekend in the sunshine..........and for free


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we pay an annual fee - its called council tax


There are two points about this. In a decade when local authority funding has had to become more focused the LAs have to prioritise spending.

Secondly why should someone without a garden subsidise removal of your garden waste. I pay £35pa for 25 collections. Anyone who doesn't live next door to the LA recycling centre couldn't do it for less.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> There are two points about this. In a decade when local authority funding has had to become more focused the LAs have to prioritise spending.
> 
> Secondly why should someone without a garden subsidise removal of your garden waste. I pay £35pa for 25 collections. Anyone who doesn't live next door to the LA recycling centre couldn't do it for less.


I didn't used to have kids. I used to pony up for schools. There's a level at which it's a civic amenity that benefits all.


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we just talking grass cutting and hedge trimming, not exactly needing a pro for that


Plumber - it's only a new tap not exactly needing a pro for that

Electrician - it's only a wall socket not exactly needing a pro for that


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> I didn't used to have kids. I used to pony up for schools. There's a level at which it's a civic amenity that benefits all.


There's a level at which certain things are a statutory duty and if the funding doesn't stretch to non- statutory services those will ultimately be cut.

Children's education versus grass clipping removal? Not really a choice is it.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> There's a level at which certain things are a statutory duty and if the funding doesn't stretch to non- statutory services those will ultimately be cut.
> 
> Children's education versus grass clipping removal? Not really a choice is it.


Of course it's about priorities. Our Council has elected to spend many many millions on a major redevelopment/building programme in the main town centre. I dearly hope that the sums still add up/make sense, because I worry about their decision to prioritise building cinemas and restaurants (for that's what it is) over service delivery. Meanwhile, their local business rates are squeezing local shops to the point of closure.

BTW my example was a bad one, because schools are not part of local council funding, they are County-funded, but you understand the point.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> There are two points about this. In a decade when local authority funding has had to become more focused the LAs have to prioritise spending.
> 
> Secondly why should someone without a garden subsidise removal of your garden waste. I pay £35pa for 25 collections. Anyone who doesn't live next door to the LA recycling centre couldn't do it for less.


i pay for schools and social care within my council tax, i dont use those services.........we pay for street lighting, but they dont get switched on, i pay for the roads to be salted, but mine doesnt as its not a bus route and the list goes on and on and on and on.......


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Plumber - it's only a new tap not exactly needing a pro for that
> 
> Electrician - it's only a wall socket not exactly needing a pro for that


do both those myself......sorry but grass cutting doesnt warrant a pro and neither does trimming a few bushes


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> i pay for schools and social care within my council tax, i dont use those services.........we pay for street lighting, but they dont get switched on, i pay for the roads to be salted, but mine doesnt as its not a bus route and the list goes on and on and on and on.......


Not schools, as I clarified above, but I agree with your point.

We have neither street lights nor salt!


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

any way as per usual we diverse away from the thread......lets not argue about what our council tax, taxes are paid for


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Not schools, as I clarified above, but I agree with your point.
> 
> We have neither street lights nor salt!


free school meals comes from local authority budget, council tax goes towards it


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Personally i think £45 per hour for grass and bush cutting is extertionate........as for removal, bag it and take it the refuse centre in the car. People moan about not having enough money for gas/electric/food etc etc...and then we get these prices showing up for what is a non professional service.

Just my opinion


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> free school meals comes from local authority budget, council tax goes towards it


Someone wise said let's not argue about what our Council Tax is for, I thought.

And then did


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Someone wise said let's not argue about what our Council Tax is for, I thought.
> 
> And then did


agreed but i wrote the one, posted it and then answered your reply afterwards lol


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> ETA
> It's presumably a Statutory Service (I guess) but can be funded separately to the CT.



No, Garden Waste collection is not a statutory service, which is why many councils charge for it, and why it is the first one to be hit when they have driver shortages.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> No, Garden Waste collection is not a statutory service, which is why many councils charge for it, and why it is the first one to be hit when they have driver shortages.


I am obliged


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## a.twiddler (6 Dec 2021)

Fortnightly garden waste collection (even after we've trimmed shrubs and hedges as long as it was all cut down so it went into the appropriate bin) was paid through normal Council Tax up to this year. Will be charging an additional £40 p.a. from next Feb. Since Mrs T has been an avid gardener for over 30 years we've got our money's worth. Certainly as part of an effective refuse collection and recycling regime they've done very well to contain the costs up to now.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> There are two points about this. In a decade when local authority funding has had to become more focused the LAs have to prioritise spending.
> 
> Secondly why should someone without a garden subsidise removal of your garden waste. I pay £35pa for 25 collections. Anyone who doesn't live next door to the LA recycling centre couldn't do it for less.


You could equally argue why should a single person who only has enough recycling to put out once every few weeks subsidise a large family who have several bags each week?

Council Tax is not paid on the basis of usage, and nor should it be. As a reasonably well-off couple with no kids at home, we use far less of the council budget than many families do, but that doesn't mean I should pay less council tax.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Collecting garden waste, stops fly tipping........thats why our council collect it for free, as its saves them money in the long term


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> do both those myself......sorry but grass cutting doesnt warrant a pro and neither does trimming a few bushes


Many of us would do those ourselves.

But anybody who doesn't want to or can't, will have to pay the services of a professional to do them. And they are going to charge professional rates regardless of whether the job actually "warranted" the use of a professional. Which is completely understandable IMV, as it still uses just as much of their time.


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Collecting garden waste, stops fly tipping........thats why our council collect it for free, as its saves them money in the long term


That's the point I made earlier - and the clearance of fly tipping is a statutory duty, aiui.


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## a.twiddler (6 Dec 2021)

But if you can still take garden waste to the tip for free why would you fly tip? (probably a silly question -some would just fly tip anyway).


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> But if you can still take garden waste to the tip for free why would you fly tip? (probably a silly question -some would just fly tip anyway).


Yep, you answered it right there, sadly.


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## roadrash (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Personally i think £45 per hour for grass and bush cutting is extertionate........as for removal, bag it and take it the refuse centre in the car. People moan about not having enough money for gas/electric/food etc etc...and then we get these prices showing up for what is a non professional service.




two points.. not everyone has a car
not all people who moan about not having enough money for gas/electric/food etc etc. pay for garden services

i wonder what else you class as a non professional service , or class as a professional service for that matter, 

how do you decide what is and isnt a professional service , whatever it means


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> two points.. not everyone has a car
> not all people who moan about not having enough money for gas/electric/food etc etc. pay for garden services
> 
> i wonder what else you class as a non professional service , or class as a professional service for that matter,
> ...


If you can't do it yourself, or are unwilling to do so, then *for you* it warrants a professional service.

If you are able and willing to do it yourself, then *for you* it doesn't.

Which services fall into which category will vary for everybody. I don't think you can say that a particular job *inherently* warrants a professional service or not.

For Jowwy these sorts of jobs clearly don't warrant it, and they wouldn't for me either. But I can see how they easily might for some people.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> But if you can still take garden waste to the tip for free why would you fly tip? (probably a silly question -some would just fly tip anyway).


Indeed. I have never understood the mentality of people who will drive to a country layby to dump stuff when they could just have taken it to the local council recycling centre. But it happens all the time


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

Fly tipping is encouraged by the people who refuse to pay for the removal of waste by contractors or try to screw down the job to the lowest price or hourly rate ("I'm not pay £45/hr when mi'laddo down the road with a van will do it for £25/hr.......). That leaves honourable professionals struggling to scrape a living while the cowboys happily tip your garden cuttings in laybys, country lanes and bridleways. By the way, anyone taking away waste from your property will need a waste carriers licence and should be able to provide you with a waste transfer note on request (in fact, I think it is obligatory that they do anyway?).

The best price is not always the best price. Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing so be careful what you push for when obtaining 'competitive' estimates for work!


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> *Fly tipping is encouraged by the people who refuse to pay for the removal of waste by contractors* or try to screw down the job to the lowest price or hourly rate ("I'm not pay £45/hr when mi'laddo down the road with a van will do it for £25/hr.......). That leaves honourable professionals struggling to scrape a living while the cowboys happily tip your garden cuttings in laybys, country lanes and bridleways. By the way, anyone taking away waste from your property will need a waste carriers licence and should be able to provide you with a waste transfer note on request (in fact, I think it is obligatory that they do anyway?).
> 
> The best price is not always the best price. Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing so be careful what you push for when obtaining 'competitive' estimates for work!


absolute load of nonesense...........i would asked for price without removal and safely remove it myself to the correct waste site, my own compost area or for my local authority to remove

Don't tar everyone to the same brush, just cause the are some that are unscrupulous and wouldnt give a monkeys were its dumped


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> If you can't do it yourself, or are unwilling to do so, then *for you* it warrants a professional service.
> 
> If you are able and willing to do it yourself, then *for you* it doesn't.
> 
> ...


totally agree........


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> absolute load of nonesense...........i would asked for price without removal and safely remove it myself to the correct waste site, my own compost area or for my local authority to remove
> 
> Don't tar everyone to the same brush, just cause the are some that are unscrupulous and wouldnt give a monkeys were its dumped


Any clues as to why you believe what he wrote to be in some way false?

He wasn't saying anything about any specific individual, and certainly wasn't tarring everybody with any brush?


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## fossyant (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> If you can't do it yourself, or are unwilling to do so, then *for you* it warrants a professional service.
> 
> If you are able and willing to do it yourself, then *for you* it doesn't.
> 
> Which services fall into which category will vary for everybody. I don't think you can say that a particular job *inherently* warrants a professional service or not.



My sister and BIL are in that category. Cut the grass ? Nope someone does that. Leak in bathroom, nope we'll get a complete new one. Decoration, someone does that. That said BIL would be dangerous with a battery drill/screwdriver.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Any clues as to why you believe what he wrote to be in some way false?
> 
> He wasn't saying anything about any specific individual, and certainly wasn't tarring everybody with any brush?


because i dont believe everyone who doesnt want to pay for a certain service is encouraging fly tipping.......i wouldnt pay for a removal service, but i also wouldnt encourage fly tipping just to save my self a few quid

just read the line i highlighted.......


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> that i already pay for in my council tax.....



For several years my local council has allowed us to put garden waste in the brown bin along with food waste for weekly collection. They changed this a few months ago so that the weekly collection will continue but if you wanted to put garden waste in as well you'd need an annual permit (stuck to the bin) for about £45. 

As others have said, garden waste disposal isn't a legal obligation for them whereas food waste disposal is. I think £45 per annum is pretty darned good value for money for 50 collections.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> For several years my local council has allowed us to put garden waste in the brown bin along with food waste for weekly collection. They changed this a few months ago so that the weekly collection will continue but if you wanted to put garden waste in as well you'd need an annual permit (stuck to the bin) for about £45.
> 
> As others have said, garden waste disposal isn't a legal obligation for them whereas food waste disposal is. I think £45 per annum is pretty darned good value for money for 50 collections.


as already stated - in our council it is free of charge and wont change........i dont live in engarland, here in wales we dont pay for prescriptions either. we do things a little different in wales


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> But if you can still take garden waste to the tip for free why would you fly tip? (probably a silly question -some would just fly tip anyway).





Bonefish Blues said:


> Yep, you answered it right there, sadly.





Alex321 said:


> Indeed. I have never understood the mentality of people who will drive to a country layby to dump stuff when they could just have taken it to the local council recycling centre. But it happens all the time


I think most of the fly tipping is done by 'the trade' rather than domestic waste generators, who can usually dispose of stuff for free at the council tip (although some council's seem hell bent on making that increasingly difficult).
The moonlighting, knock on your door "want your hedges trimming?" brigade or the unscrupulous tradesmen who don't care or are desperate to get work in competition against the casuals, "Tell you what, I won't charge for taking away the cuttings". There is a cost to commercial disposal and even when I was working in transport nearly 15yrs ago that was approaching £100/ton at the weighbridge.
There is a huge chunk of society that doesn't want to pay that, after all who doesn't like a great price? But by doing so they are either ignorantly or by turning a blind eye, facilitating fly tipping.


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> we do things a little different in wales


Still have the same fly tipping issues though, I know I have visited and cycled there.


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> as already stated - in our council it is free of charge and wont change.



For the moment.

The Controlled Waste (England & Wales) Regulations 2012 set out the powers that local authorities have to charge for the collection and disposal of certain wastes. Paragraph 4 of Schedule 1 to those regulations states that a council may charge for the collection of household garden waste.

Don't be surprised if when your council joins the many others who already charge.


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## PaulSB (6 Dec 2021)

@Alex321 I agree with all you say. As for the rest of it I really cannot be bothered. After 44 years in professional horticulture I feel I have some small insight into and understanding of the costs of running a small, probably self-employed, business.

It's quite insulting that in this modern day there are those who see professional horticulture as a low paid menial occupation.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> @Alex321 I agree with all you say. As for the rest of it I really cannot be bothered. After 44 years in professional horticulture I feel I have some small insight into and understanding of the costs of running a small, probably self-employed, business.
> 
> It's quite insulting that in this modern day there are those who see professional horticulture as a low paid menial occupation.


nobody said it was a low paid menial occupation......i just dont see why anyone would pay for the removal of said tree, grass and bush waste, when there a many free services currently available i.e my own time

and yeh i do think £45 an hour is extortionate for general garden maintenance ......


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## figbat (6 Dec 2021)

We pay for garden waste collection - in fact we have paid extra to have two garden waste bins, and over certain parts of the years they both get filled on the two-weekly rota. We don't have the time to take this to the recycling centre, which is often very busy anyway and entails a lengthy queue. It would also mean either configuring the car to take the load (then putting it back to passenger configuration) or dragging the trailer out, emptying it of the camping stuff that lives in it, and then putting it all back again etc.

We have two mature sycamores that at this time of year dump a lot of leaves. Through the early summer there is copious grass mowing. There is also weeding, pruning and general garden-keeping. I am happy to pay to have this taken away from my doorstep every two weeks. The wheelie bins are useful during the waste collection process too, being easy to take to the point of generation, easy to store etc.

When our council suspended garden waste collection for a few weeks it was still mowing season, so we got hold of a Hippo bag and used this to hold garden waste until collection restarted, at which time we decanted it all into the two waste bins over two or three collection cycles. We have no use or need for compost, or certainly not the amount we would generate which would be grass-heavy (which I understand is not a great way to compost). Our food waste gets collected too, weekly - if it wasn't a separate waste stream this would likely go into landfill.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> For the moment.
> 
> The Controlled Waste (England & Wales) Regulations 2012 set out the powers that local authorities have to charge for the collection and disposal of certain wastes. Paragraph 4 of Schedule 1 to those regulations states that a council may charge for the collection of household garden waste.
> 
> Don't be surprised if when your council joins the many others who already charge.


they already tried to charge and found out it was a waste of time charging as fly tipping went through the roof. So after a public consultation and the voting in of certain council members, it was decided it would be a free service......

if in the future it becomes chargeable again, they may come up against the same issues they faced before and votes may not going in their favour in council elections........thats the power of the ballot box.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Still have the same fly tipping issues though, I know I have visited and cycled there.


find me a council area that doesn't have fly tipping issues.......its not just wales i can tell you


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## T4tomo (6 Dec 2021)

5 pages of rubbish, quite literally.....


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> because i dont believe everyone who doesnt want to pay for a certain service is encouraging fly tipping.......i wouldnt pay for a removal service, but i also wouldnt encourage fly tipping just to save my self a few quid
> 
> just read the line i highlighted.......



Not sure why you don't believe it. Although they probably don't believe it either.

It is fact that if you are paying people to take things away, and going for the lowest price with fully checking their accreditation, then there is a very good chance they will be fly tipping it, rather than paying commercial rates for disposal.

He obviously wasn't talking there about the people who would rather take it to the council facility themselves. He was talking about people wanting somebody else to do it, but not willing t pay the full rate.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Still have the same fly tipping issues though, I know I have visited and cycled there.


 It does depend on where, but yes many areas of Wales do still have fly tipping issues.

I will admit, I was surprised just how much less of it there is (and general littering) when we moved down to the Vale of Glamorgan last year after living in Merthyr Tydfil council area for 20 years, then Rhondda Cynon Taf for around a year.

I know it is a much wealthier area, but I hadn't really realised just how much of the general littering and fly tipping is down to such factors.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Not sure why you don't believe it. Although they probably don't believe it either.
> 
> It is fact that if you are paying people to take things away, and going for the lowest price with fully checking their accreditation, then there is a very good chance they will be fly tipping it, rather than paying commercial rates for disposal.
> 
> He obviously wasn't talking there about the people who would rather take it to the council facility themselves. He was talking about people wanting somebody else to do it, but not willing t pay the full rate.


again read the line i highlighted......he stated *" Fly tipping is encouraged by the people who refuse to pay for the removal of waste by contractors"*

i don't believe that to be true, just because your unwilling to pay for something, it doesn't mean your encouraging something else.........


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> again read the line i highlighted......he stated *" Fly tipping is encouraged by the people who refuse to pay for the removal of waste by contractors"*
> 
> i don't believe that to be true, just because your unwilling to pay for something, it doesn't mean your encouraging something else.........


No, I won't read that again. It is out of context, and completely clear to the rest of us what he was referring to.

If you want to be overly pedantic, and pretend you thought he was including people who prefer to do it themselves, go ahead. That doesn't make what you were responding to "a load of nonsense" though. It means one line in what he wrote could have been a little clearer if you want to nitpick.


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## Electric_Andy (6 Dec 2021)

Ours is collected for free but you can't fit an awful lot in there if you doing heavy lopping. It's designed just for grass cuttings, weeds and pruning really. It also specifies nothing more than 10cm in diameter, which I have exceeded a bit and they still took it, but it was only marginally over. My partner used a gardener and he asked if she wanted to dispose of the waste herself, which she did so that wasn't charged for. I think the option should be to leave the waste if the customer wants it cheaper, but I expect some will give a quote and include waste removal and if it's to much the customer can always reject the quote and go elsewhere, or perhaps agree a lower price with waste not included.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> No, I won't read that again. It is out of context, *and completely clear to the rest of us what he was referring to*.
> 
> If you want to be overly pedantic, and pretend you thought he was including people who prefer to do it themselves, go ahead. That doesn't make what you were responding to "a load of nonsense" though. It means one line in what he wrote could have been a little clearer if you want to nitpick.


its not out of context, its exactly what he wrote........do you have access to every ones brains, to know what they are thinking?? if so, there some people in science and research areas, that might want to talk to you


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## biggs682 (6 Dec 2021)

Ours collect for free at the moment


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## Dave7 (6 Dec 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Secondly why should someone without a garden subsidise removal of your garden waste. I pay £35pa for 25 collections.


A good point tbf.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Dave7 said:


> A good point tbf.


its not a good point really is it, as many have pointed out.......there is lots in the council tax payment that people pay for and dont have access, the right to access or use. Yo win some, you lose some, in that sense


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## Dave7 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> its not a good point really is it, as many have pointed out.......there is lots in the council tax payment that people pay for and dont have access, the right to access or use. Yo win some, you lose some, in that sense


Sorry for having a thought that differs to yours ....I will try not to do it again.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> its not out of context, its exactly what he wrote........do you have access to every ones brains, to know what they are thinking?? if so, there some people in science and research areas, that might want to talk to you


Of course it is what he wrote.

You clearly don't understand what "out of context" means if you think that means it wasn't.

It was completely clear from the context (i.e. the rest of the post) that he was talking about those who want it doing by somebody else but aren't prepared to pay the rates asked for by properly accredited professionals.

Part of that context being - later in the *same sentence* " ("I'm not pay £45/hr when mi'laddo down the road with a van will do it for £25/hr.......) ".

I doubt there is anybody else who read that post who thought he might be including those who would rather do it ourselves.


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## ebikeerwidnes (6 Dec 2021)

We pay £35 for a single bin collected every 2 weeks -same day as the recycling bin which makes it easy to remember

2 other points
1) I could just lob it over the fence at the botton of the garden - it is just trees and bushes. In fact it would actually land on land that is part of my property because the fence seems to have migrated a couple of feet closer to the house before I moved in - but I choose to have it collected and composted properly - mainly because it is less trouble
2) People who pay a 'reasonable' price for rubbish to be removed - e.g. lawns mowed and grass removed - can check the operator's license all they like but the operator still gets charged every time they dump stuff
Hence, they have an incentive to charge correctly including dumping - then lob it over a fence into field
Bonus point) I can;t remember seeing garden type waste dumped around here when out cycling - I do see some fly tipping and I have started to photograph and report it whenever I can - it has all been general waste - boxes, chipboard and all that stuff


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Of course it is what he wrote.
> 
> You clearly don't understand what "out of context" means if you think that means it wasn't.
> 
> ...


that is separated from the other sentence with the word *" OR".......*

and again, just speak for yourself and not others.......but im done arguing, i didnt start this thread to argue with people about other peoples post's

i believe one thing, you believe another.....no one else has piped up, so don't speak on their behalf.


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## johnblack (6 Dec 2021)

Opened up the post, fairly innocuous discussion but just knew there would be a row, absolutely nailed on.

Free, every other week btw.


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## MontyVeda (6 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> They could easily break it down over a couple of 'green waste' collections. £45 an hour for gardening is steep. £25 max ?


a proper gardener shouldn't cost any less per hour than a plumber, joiner, plasterer or any other tradesmanperson.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)




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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> View attachment 620872


Listened I did. Done arguing you were?


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> If you can't do it yourself, or are unwilling to do so, then *for you* it warrants a professional service.
> 
> If you are able and willing to do it yourself, then *for you* it doesn't.





jowwy said:


> totally agree........


I'm confused now Jowwy. If you understand and agree with the points of Alex321 then what on earth is your question? You already knew the answer, it might almost be suggested that you started the thread just to pick a contrary stance to anyone that posted.....

I'll edit my posts below (in BOLD) just to clarify my statements for anyone struggling with the nuances of what I am saying.



I like Skol said:


> Fly tipping is encouraged by the people who refuse to pay *[a reasonable price]* for the removal of waste by contractors or try to screw down the job to the lowest price or hourly rate ("I'm not pay £45/hr when mi'laddo down the road with a van will do it for £25/hr.......).





I like Skol said:


> There is a huge chunk of society that doesn't want to pay *[a reasonable price, covering all the related costs] *that, after all who doesn't like a great price? But by doing so they are either ignorantly or by turning a blind eye, facilitating fly tipping.



This is clearly not aimed at someone who has the desire, ability and time to legally do part of the job themselves to keep the cost down, trading their time and effort for a financial saving.

I'm sure, given the option and a great price that included taking away the cuttings if you wanted them to and wasn't any cheaper if they didn't, then you would accept the offer?
Your original example of the £180 for four hours work may initially sound a bit expensive, but in reality, once the back ground costs are factored in (Those 2yr waste carrier licences aren't free you know?) as well as the cost and time of disposing of the cuttings (maybe £40-50 to the site that accepts them, plus probably an hour of the contractors time to travel, weigh in and unload) that £180 is suddenly down to £130-140 and it's not 4hrs work but 5 and hey presto £45/hr is now £25/hr and out of that £25 has to come some tax, some liability insurance, any fuel used, deductions for vehicles and equipment that aren't free and don't last for ever, accountants fees (lets face it, great gardeners might not be top drawer finance bods but still need to file some kind of tax return) and hopefully, just maybe, there might be some money left to take out some kind of wage that pays better than stacking shelves in Tescos!

Like I said way up-thread, some people know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.


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## Kingfisher101 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> i cut a huge bush down and then cut all the long branches into shorter ones to fit in the bag, took me weekend in the sunshine..........and for free


How marvellous, I once cut down a whole forest with a penknife and I was paid for it and stayed in a 5 star hotel and had guest appearances on T.V to talk about it as well. I dined out on this for years. Those were the days..


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## Bonefish Blues (6 Dec 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> How marvellous, I once cut down a whole forest with a penknife and I was paid for it and stayed in a 5 star hotel and had guest appearances on T.V to talk about it as well. I dined out on this for years. Those were the days..


Aye - trouble is when you were finished it were all fields


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> I'm confused now Jowwy. If you understand and agree with the points of Alex321 then what on earth is your question? You already knew the answer, it might almost be suggested that you started the thread just to pick a contrary stance to anyone that posted.....
> 
> I'll edit my posts below (in BOLD) just to clarify my statements for anyone struggling with the nuances of what I am saying.
> 
> ...


Work doesnt warrant £45hr….no matter how you break it down. Its general garden maintenance.

I think the work warrants £15/20hr tops……..and thats pushing it tbh.

but everyone has a right to their view.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

i hope none of you pay a gardener fulltime…..you’d all be bankrupt within a few weeks at those prices.


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## raleighnut (6 Dec 2021)

Free here, you just bag it up and ring the council. Up to 15 bags (Privet trimmings and Brambles) plus up to 5 'large' items (settees mattresses etc)

I think Leicester Council know it's cheaper than clearing 'fly tipping'


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## presta (6 Dec 2021)

Free here (Braintree). We have:
Green bin: garden waste, fortnightly
Plastic sacks: recyclables, same day as green bins
Green bucket: food waste, weekly
Grey bin: everything not listed above, fortnightly, on the weeks between the other collections
The green bin is currently suspended during the winter months, resumes March, I think.


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## Rusty Nails (6 Dec 2021)

Free, fortnightly through late spring and summer, in Cardiff. I have two large green wheelie bins, although I did have to pay a one-off extra cost for the second bin.

Far fewer, and not regular, collections through winter


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Work doesnt warrant £45hr….no matter how you break it down. Its general garden maintenance.


Either you are not listening, or you're choosing to ignore the facts because they don't fit with a point you are trying to make?

It isn't £45 an hour, as you clearly explained in your earlier post.


jowwy said:


> trim bushes, trim some over hanging branches from neighbours garden and cut the grass and then on top pay for the removal of said garden waste.....so in all it cost £180 for 4hrs ( 1 person ).


The cost included an element for the on-site work, an amount for legal disposal of the waste and some time to cover the work involved in the disposal. Certainly NOT £45/hr for the labour element.


jowwy said:


> View attachment 620872


I don't know where you get that from but if you employ a gardener for the average hourly rate and this includes the removal of anything other than minimum sweepings/trimmings then you are almost certainly being party to illegal tipping, tax evasion or both. The figures just don't add up (unless you are happy exploiting people on or below the minimum wage and needing additional govt income credits to make ends meet).


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## CanucksTraveller (6 Dec 2021)

£40 per year in North Herts for one standard wheelie bin every 2 weeks. 

And if anyone wonders, it's £1 for an argument with Jowwy on the one thread, or £8 for a course of 10 arguments on different threads, that's for the really committed masochist.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Either you are not listening, or you're choosing to ignore the facts because they don't fit with a point you are trying to make?
> 
> It isn't £45 an hour, as you clearly explained in your earlier post.
> 
> ...


That post came from a “quote my job website” and it lists the hourly rates you can expect to pay for maintenance work on your garden…….£12/15hr is way above minimum wage, so no exploitation.

and many workers in the uk are on less than that per hour and still pay tax, NI and pensions…….so are not party to tax evasion and i would have it a guess that many gardeners employed around the UK are earning around that much per hour……..

and even if the element of waste removal was £40/50 then the hourly rate would still be around £30/35hr…….again, i bet there aint a gardener employed fulltime in the Uk on that much per hour And they would still pay tax, NI, pension, fuel etc etc etc


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> £40 per year in North Herts for one standard wheelie bin every 2 weeks.
> 
> And if anyone wonders, it's £1 for an argument with Jowwy on the one thread, or £8 for a course of 10 arguments on different threads, that's for the really committed masochist.


Or £5 just to reply to jowwy personally about nothing within the thread………oh and dont forget to pay your £8


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Its funny aint it…..two people dont agree on something, yet only one is accused of being argumentative

takes two to tango……..and two to argue. But on this forum only one will be accused of being the argumentative, cause the other is a nice friendly chappy at heart.


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## MontyVeda (6 Dec 2021)

Why doesn't @jowwy set up as a sole trader, doing gardening and charges £12-£15 per hour to his clients, then in 12 months time he can report back and tell us how he's getting on


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Why doesn't @jowwy set up as a sole trader, doing gardening and charges £12-£15 per hour to his clients, then in 12 months time he can report back and tell us how he's getting on


Id be earning the same as the gardener who is employed by asda and the guy stacking the shelves of the food you purchase…

lets say £15hr on a 40hr week…..thats £600 a week before tax. 52 wks in a year, if you dont take holidays, so thats around £31.2k a year

lots of people around the UK earning a lot less than that before tax, NI and pension.


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## MontyVeda (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Id be earning the same as the gardener who is employed by asda and the guy stacking the shelves of the food you purchase….


what part of 'sole trader' do you not understand?


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> what part of 'sole trader' do you not understand?


I think we are wasting our time?


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> I think we are wasting our time?


No….i just dont agree with your opinion, the same as you dont agree with mine…

all you want is for me to agree with your opinion, that £45hr incuding removals is a bargain……sorry but i disagree


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> No….i just dont agree with your opinion, the same as you dont agree with mine…
> 
> all you want is for me to agree with your opinion, that £45hr incuding removals is a bargain……sorry but i disagree


FFS! IT WASN'T £45/hr

It was £180 and we don't know exactly what this was for, unless you have a lot more information than you are sharing. We cannot judge if this was extortion, reasonable or a bargain.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> FFS! IT WASN'T £45/hr
> 
> It was £180 and we don't know exactly what this was for, unless you have a lot more information than you are sharing. We cannot judge if this was extortion, reasonable or a bargain.


I told you what it was for…..four hours work, cutting the grass, trimming a bush and a few branches from over hanging trees. £180 removal of waste included…..so thats £45hr or like i said take £40 for removing waste thats £140 for four hours work, so thats £35hr……

and before you say what about travel time blah blah blah…..how many people get paid to travel to work, i know i dont, i have to pay that myself out of my salary, i dont get extra for travelling


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> FFS! IT WASN'T £45/hr
> 
> It was £180 and we don't know exactly what this was for, unless you have a lot more information than you are sharing. We cannot judge if this was extortion, reasonable or a bargain.


So how much in your opiniin is he being paid per hour???

And before you start taking out tax, Ni, pension, fuel etc etc…….everyone getting paid a salary pays those things out if their wages, irrespextive of what their hourly rate is

so if my salary is £25hr…….thats my gross pay per hour

this guy charged 180 for 4hrs work……so his gross pay is £45hr


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> That post came from a “quote my job website” and it lists the hourly rates you can expect to pay for maintenance work on your garden…….£12/15hr is way above minimum wage, so no exploitation.
> 
> and many workers in the uk are on less than that per hour and still pay tax, NI and pensions…….so are not party to tax evasion and i would have it a guess that many gardeners employed around the UK are earning around that much per hour……..


Ignoring the fact that what you pay a tradesperson for a job is not what that tradesperson makes, the website you've used lists waste removal as an additional cost and prices it between £100 - £200. So call it the lower end of that leaves four hours on site at £20 an hour.

You say you were happy to cut up and dispose of your own waste over the course of the weekend but what's your hourly rate? As an example, we don't have the luxury of time at weekends. To dispose of our hedge cuttings my wife used a day's leave. So for her that's eight hours at about £25 per hour, plus the cost of hiring the woodchipper, say about £35, makes £235 that we've 'spent' on garden waste removal. That ain't cheap. And you took an entire weekend?


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## PK99 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Id be earning the same as the gardener who is employed by asda and the guy stacking the shelves of the food you purchase…
> 
> lets say £15hr on a 40hr week…..thats £600 a week before tax. 52 wks in a year, if you dont take holidays, so thats around £31.2k a year
> 
> lots of people around the UK earning a lot less than that before tax, NI and pension.



You appear not to understand the difference between salaried jobs an self employment.

A jobbing gardener will normally have billable hours of 50 to 75% of working hours. Quoting, travel time, time lost to weather, holidays, visits to the doctor, etc all add up as unpaid hours. Plus out of billings come insurance, vehicle costs, tool, equipment, protective clothing. 

An hourly paid employee gets paid for hours worked and has no overheads.


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> and before you say what about travel time blah blah blah…..how many people get paid to travel to work, i know i dont, i have to pay that myself out of my salary, i dont get extra for travelling


At work our service engineers for our analysers charge for travel time, and it's hundreds of pounds an hour. It's covered by our maintenance contracts but if it wasn't, it is considered chargable.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Ignoring the fact that what you pay a tradesperson for a job is not what that tradesperson makes, the website you've used lists waste removal as an additional cost and prices it between £100 - £200. So call it the lower end of that leaves four hours on site at £20 an hour.
> 
> You say you were happy to cut up and dispose of your own waste over the course of the weekend but what's your hourly rate? As an example, we don't have the luxury of time at weekends. To dispose of our hedge cuttings my wife used a day's leave. So for her that's eight hours at about £25 per hour, plus the cost of hiring the woodchipper, say about £35, makes £235 that we've 'spent' on garden waste removal. That ain't cheap. And you took an entire weekend?


My hourly rate is free, i dont work weekends, so its my time…..i dont bill myself, i class it as leisure time in the sun, free of charge….and i said i took the weekend to do it, doesnt mean i worked my ass off for 48hrs non stop sheesh, i have a garden, not a palace estate.

and tbh i wouldnt get anyone to mow my garden or trim my bushes either, i would do it all myself.

if someone thinks 180 for 4hrs work is a bargain, all power to them, but i dont and never will, no matter what other peoples views or opinions are.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Ignoring the fact that what you pay a tradesperson for a job is not what that tradesperson makes, the website you've used lists waste removal as an additional cost and prices it between £100 - £200. So call it the lower end of that leaves four hours on site at £20 an hour.
> 
> You say you were happy to cut up and dispose of your own waste over the course of the weekend but what's your hourly rate? As an example, we don't have the luxury of time at weekends. To dispose of our hedge cuttings my wife used a day's leave. So for her that's eight hours at about £25 per hour, plus the cost of hiring the woodchipper, say about £35, makes £235 that we've 'spent' on garden waste removal. That ain't cheap. And you took an entire weekend?


Didnt your wife get paid for her days leave then????


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PK99 said:


> You appear not to understand the difference between salaried jobs an self employment.
> 
> A jobbing gardener will normally have billable hours of 50 to 75% of working hours. Quoting, travel time, time lost to weather, holidays, visits to the doctor, etc all add up as unpaid hours. Plus out of billings come insurance, vehicle costs, tool, equipment, protective clothing.
> 
> An hourly paid employee gets paid for hours worked and has no overheads.


I do understand the difference, ive worked in both types of employment………im now a qualified data analyst and get paid accordingly ( without travel costs, tax, NI added on, i pay that from salary/hours worked)


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Didnt your wife get paid for her days leave then????


Yeah but she spent it grafting.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

PK99 said:


> You appear not to understand the difference between salaried jobs an self employment.
> 
> A jobbing gardener will normally have billable hours of 50 to 75% of working hours. Quoting, travel time, time lost to weather, holidays, visits to the doctor, etc all add up as unpaid hours. Plus out of billings come insurance, vehicle costs, tool, equipment, protective clothing.
> 
> An hourly paid employee gets paid for hours worked and has no overheads.


And it doesnt matter what he pays out of the earnings afterwards……hes still get £45hr for the job, or £35hr after disposal costs……its that plain and simple


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> Yeah but she spent it grafting.


So it didnt cost you £25 per hour for your wifes time then, cause she got paid for the leave……….so instead of being paid for working, she got paid for shredding trees….cant have it both ways.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

When i recently paid for my roof repairs, the roofer quoted me £50per hour per roofer, plus materials

in total they worked 3 hours, so thats £300 for labour plus cost of materials. The quote was per hour, not for the cost of the job…..out of his hourly rate he would pay tax, ni, insurance, vehicle costs, travelling time, sickness, dog food, cat litter and a pint of beer…..even though he paid all that stuff out, he still got £50 per hours work done


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## winjim (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> So it didnt cost you £25 per hour for your wifes time then, cause she got paid for the leave……….so instead of being paid for working, she got paid for shredding trees….cant have it both ways.


I get your point and I suppose it depends on how you look at it but we are time poor. If there comes a point before April when she's used up all her paid leave and needs to take additional time off, then it will definitely have cost us.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> I get your point and I suppose it depends on how you look at it but we are time poor. If there comes a point before April when she's used up all her paid leave and needs to take additional time off, then it will definitely have cost us.


I agree……..but in current case, you got paid for shredding, i take annual leave to do work in the house, gadren, etc etc sometimes thats the only way to get stuff done. I actually plan my annual leave around doing big jobs that need time


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> So how much in your opiniin is he being paid per hour???
> 
> And before you start taking out tax, Ni, pension, fuel etc etc…….everyone getting paid a salary pays those things out if their wages, irrespextive of what their hourly rate is
> 
> ...


A person getting a salary doesn't pay for the upkeep of their vehicle and for fuel if used for work (they do for commuting, but that is very different to a job which requires regular site visits to different sites). They also don't pay the employers NI contributions or pension costs.

A sole trader has quite considerable costs additional to those a salaried employee would normally have.

I speak from experience here, having spent 10 years working as a freelancer (in IT). I didn't need much of the equipment a gardener would, though I did need reasonable computer equipment. One year, I claimed tax relief for 12,000 miles of business travel - which saves you about 20% of the cost of the diesel/petrol you are buying out of that income. If I had been a salaried employee working for one of the big consultancies, I might well have done similar mileage, but it would all have been paid for by my employer.
[EDIT]
And most employers will also pay you for the time spent travelling between jobs, while a sole trader only gets paid for the actual time on site.
[/EDIT]

Overall, the proportion of what I was paid as gross fees that ended up in my personal bank account was a significantly lower percentage than would have been the case if I had been paid the same gross amount as salary.


----------



## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> I agree……..but in current case, you got paid for shredding, i take annual leave to do work in the house, gadren, etc etc sometimes thats the only way to get stuff done. I actually plan my annual leave around doing big jobs that need time


Quite a few of us do similar.

But you are being a little self deluding if you don't count that as a cost. Annual leave is not free.

Yes, it is paid holiday, but you could have been using it to do something more pleasurable. If comparing the cost of doing it yourself against getting somebody in, you should count any annual leave time at your equivalent hourly/daily rate.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Quite a few of us do similar.
> 
> But you are being a little self deluding if you don't count that as a cost. Annual leave is not free.
> 
> Yes, it is paid holiday, but you could have been using it to do something more pleasurable. If comparing the cost of doing it yourself against getting somebody in, you should count any annual leave time at your equivalent hourly/daily rate.


Its not a cost….i dont bill myself for doing my own work in my garden, whether im on leave or on my weeknd time off….and for me its pleasureable to work in my garden. 

your deluded if you do….sheesh, not everything we do in life has a moneyable cost to it………


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> A person getting a salary doesn't pay for the upkeep of their vehicle and for fuel if used for work (they do for commuting, but that is very different to a job which requires regular site visits to different sites). They also don't pay the employers NI contributions or pension costs.
> 
> A sole trader has quite considerable costs additional to those a salaried employee would normally have.
> 
> ...


I get paid an hourly rate….i pay the tax, mot, servicing on the vehicle i use for work, im guessing you do too

as for pension, i pay my NI and pensions costs, the same as someone self employed would pay his NI and pension costs……difference being my company pay extra intot he pension, but i still pay my costs. I dont pay the other 250 employess worth of NI and pension costs though ( and nietherr would someone self employed)….unless he has staff members, but again that would be calculated into the hourly rate charged for the job…

as said, £180 for 4 hours work, no matter how you wrap it up, is £45 per hour less costs….no matter what is overheads are, he still got £45 per hour for work done on site.

the same as my roofer got £50 per hour labour costs on my roof job, no matter what he pays out of it afterwards…..


----------



## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

I give up. Jowwy is clearly on one of his semi-regular missions to fall out with the world and everyone in it and isn't actually listening to what anyone is saying. I know which way this is heading and I'm not wasting any more of my time on his game.

I may watch from the sidelines.....


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> I give up. Jowwy is clearly on one of his semi-regular missions to fall out with the world and everyone in it and isn't actually listening to what anyone is saying. I know which way this is heading and I'm not wasting any more of my time on his game.
> 
> I may watch from the sidelines.....


You just dont like it cause i wont bow down to your opinion…..not the first time either. Like i said, takes two to argue or debate…..but only one will get banned.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Quite a few of us do similar.
> 
> But you are being a little self deluding if you don't count that as a cost. Annual leave is not free.
> 
> Yes, it is paid holiday, but you could have been using it to do something more pleasurable. If comparing the cost of doing it yourself against getting somebody in, you should count any annual leave time at your equivalent hourly/daily rate.


When you go on holiday, do you factor in your annual leave cost ( as its not free) with the cost of your holiday???


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> You just dont like it cause i wont bow down to your opinion…..not the first time either. Like i said, takes two to argue or debate…..but only one will get banned.


You are nuts , really, honestly, seriously nuts!


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> You are nuts , really, honestly, seriously nuts!


I could say the same about you, having read many of your posts……..but i dont make assumptions about people based on forum posts.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> I get paid an hourly rate….i pay the tax, mot, servicing on the vehicle i use for work, im guessing you do too


If I used it for work, no I wouldn't.

If I used it for commuting, which is not the same thing, then yes.

In practice, I only occasionally use my car even for commuting, since I normally cycle to work.



> as for pension, i pay my NI and pensions costs, the same as someone self employed would pay his NI and pension costs……difference being my company pay extra intot he pension, but i still pay my costs.


You obviously don't know how these things work.

There is employees NI, which comes out of your salary, and then there is employers NI, which the employer pays on top of your salary. Self employed NI is a higher rate than salaried employee NI to take account of this.



> as said, £180 for 4 hours work, no matter how you wrap it up, is £45 per hour less costs….no matter what is overheads are, he still got £45 per hour for work done on site.
> 
> the same as my roofer got £50 per hour labour costs on my roof job, no matter what he pays out of it afterwards…..



Well he didn't get £180 for 4 hours work, he got £180 for 4 hours work *plus waste disposal* - which would account for at least £100 of that according to the post above - leaving him being paid £80 for 4 hours labour. £20 per hour.

But regardless of that, you have been trying to paint it as being similar to an employee on a salary equivalent to £45 per hour, and I have just been pointing out that it isn't even close to that.


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> When you go on holiday, do you factor in your annual leave cost ( as its not free) with the cost of your holiday???


I certainly recognise it is part of the cost.

I don't tend to itemise it, nor do I itemise it if I am doing other jobs that I could have paid somebody to do. But I am always aware that it is a cost, and that it is a false economy to treat my time as free when I am comparing the cost of paying for something or doing it myself.

If doing something for your own pleasure, rather than for economic reasons, that is a different matter, but the time is still a cost of that pleasure.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> If I used it for work, no I wouldn't.
> 
> If I used it for commuting, which is not the same thing, then yes.
> 
> ...


Its only assumed he paid 100 for disposal, could have been 20, 30, or 50 even…..we dont know

the facts are £180 for 4hrs work…..thats £45 per hour less costs, thats a fact, zero arguememts


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> I certainly recognise it is part of the cost.
> 
> I don't tend to itemise it, nor do I itemise it if I am doing other jobs that I could have paid somebody to do. But I am always aware that it is a cost, and that it is a false economy to treat my time as free when I am comparing the cost of paying for something or doing it myself.
> 
> If doing something for your own pleasure, rather than for economic reasons, that is a different matter, but the time is still a cost of that pleasure.


You the only person i know that classes annual leave as a cost as part of their holiday……seriously you are.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Mods, im quite happy for the thread to be closed now as some members are just using it to throw abuse and name calling into the mix…..

@Moderators


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## Randomnerd (6 Dec 2021)

A contractor will require a waste transfer license, and fill out a transfer note on site for the client and at the tip site receive more paperwork, and keep this as evidence. Some tip sites charge a minimum of £100 to tip. 

I consider you’re better employed as a data analyst (oh the irony) than a contract gardener - you’d be on your arse within six months charging £20 an hour all through.


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## PK99 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> You the only person i know that classes annual leave as a cost as part of their holiday……seriously you are.



In the run up to retirement, my wife worked as a contractor.
We certainly factored her daily rate of £330 into holiday decisions.


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## jowwy (6 Dec 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> A contractor will require a waste transfer license, and fill out a transfer note on site for the client and at the tip site receive more paperwork, and keep this as evidence. Some tip sites charge a minimum of £100 to tip.
> 
> I consider you’re better employed as a data analyst (oh the irony) than a contract gardener - you’d be on your arse within six months charging £20 an hour all through.


Thanks for back handed side swipe……

@Moderators please close the thread, abuse, snide remarks and name calling shouldnt be accepted by anyone on this forum


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## Alex321 (6 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Its only assumed he paid 100 for disposal, could have been 20, 30, or 50 even…..we dont know
> 
> the facts are £180 for 4hrs work…..thats £45 per hour less costs, thats a fact, zero arguememts


No, it is NOT a fact.

And no, we have no idea what he paid for disposal. That is irrelevant. The going rate for disposal of waste as an add on to gardening service is between £100 and £200. That disposal was included in the overall price here.

Without seeing a breakdown of his invoice, neither you or I knows what the actual amount was, but it is absolutely certain that the £180 was not just for the 4 hours work on site. That IS a fact.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> No, it is NOT a fact.
> 
> And no, we have no idea what he paid for disposal. That is irrelevant. The going rate for disposal of waste as an add on to gardening service is between £100 and £200. That disposal was included in the overall price here.
> 
> Without seeing a breakdown of his invoice, neither you or I knows what the actual amount was, but it is absolutely certain that the £180 was not just for the 4 hours work on site. That IS a fact.


Lik you said what he paid for disposal is irrelevant....

Two facts - £180 and 4hrs......the rest is unknowns 

180 ÷ 4 = £45......per hour

The rest is assumptions made by people on here.

Hope you enjoy your day. Merry christmas all.


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## nickyboy (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Mods, im quite happy for the thread to be closed now as some members are just using it to throw abuse and name calling into the mix…..
> 
> @Moderators


@jowwy have you stepped back and considered why a disproportionately high number of threads you are involved in descend into name calling and petty fall outs?

Can it really be down to everyone else and you're just unlucky?


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

nickyboy said:


> @jowwy have you stepped back and considered why a disproportionately high number of threads you are involved in descend into name calling and petty fall outs?
> 
> Can it really be down to everyone else and you're just unlucky?


i dont call people names - so you will have to ask the other members why they start doing that. I have been involved in many hundreds of threads since becoming a member 10+yrs ago......many hundreds of them have not descended into name calling and petty fall-outs, only a few recently were people cant get involved in NACA posts and want some where else to vent their frustrations.

Hope this helps. Have a nice day


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Lik you said what he paid for disposal is irrelevant....
> 
> Two facts - £180 and 4hrs......the rest is unknowns
> 
> ...


If you want to believe something which is clearly and obviously untrue, go ahead.

There is no possibility whatsoever that he was paid £45 per hour he spent. None.

We don't know how long the disposal took him, or what he may have had to pay for it. But it is absolutely certain it took him some time, and unless he was breaking the law by fly-tipping, it is also certain to have cost him something.

You are determined that those must be treated as zero just because we don't know how much they were, which is just plain wrong.


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## T4tomo (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> @Moderators please close the thread, abuse, snide remarks and name calling shouldnt be accepted by anyone on this forum


somewhat double standards...


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> If you want to believe something which is clearly and obviously untrue, go ahead.
> 
> There is no possibility whatsoever that he was paid £45 per hour he spent. None.
> 
> ...


or maybe he took it home and dumped it on his compost heap, therefore costing zero, or he put in is own waste bags and left for council collection, costing zero.......all these are assumptions obviously, the same as the assumptions many are making here on how much it cost him.

it doesn't stray away from the fact he charged £180 for 4hrs work......the rest in a court of law is circumstantial.

Many on here state that £20 an hour isn't enough for gardener to make money on, yet they state it would have cost between £100 to £200 to dispose of the waste, therefore earning the gardener circa £20/hr or less......which people state would have me out of business quick sharp, if that what i would charge...again irrelevant as i wouldn't be doing other peoples gardening or charging them for it, as i have a fulltime job.

Have a nice day


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

T4tomo said:


> somewhat double standards...


thats the 2nd post you made in this thread, that adds absolutely nothing to the thread.....and its probably not the only time over many threads on this forum


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## T4tomo (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> post you made in this thread, that adds absolutely nothing to the thread.


Oh the irony

that's made my morning😘


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

T4tomo said:


> Oh the irony
> 
> that's made my morning😘


post number 3........how about replying to the thread (as per forum rules) and not replying about the poster ( against forum rules)


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## Bonefish Blues (7 Dec 2021)

Can I be the first to label the thread Wastegate?


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## nickyboy (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> i dont call people names - so you will have to ask the other members why they start doing that. I have been involved in many hundreds of threads since becoming a member 10+yrs ago......many hundreds of them have not descended into name calling and petty fall-outs, only a few recently were people cant get involved in NACA posts and want some where else to vent their frustrations.
> 
> Hope this helps. Have a nice day


Your perception differs from mine

Some people seem to get involved in petty arguments that descend into slanging matches and some don't. This thread is ridiculously trivial but somehow it's blown up. Perhaps instead of saying it's everyone else's fault for this you should look a bit closer to home?


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

nickyboy said:


> Your perception differs from mine
> 
> Some people seem to get involved in petty arguments that descend into slanging matches and some don't. This thread is ridiculously trivial but *somehow it's blown up*. Perhaps instead of saying it's everyone else's fault for this you should look a bit closer to home?


i cant change your perception...thats your perception, 

its not as if theres been hundreds of posts abusing people or reported to the mods. Just a few members, none more than usual that reply to/about the poster, rather then the thread......happening more often across the whole forum since NACA has been removed and members need somewhere to blow off steam and get abusive..........reminds me of twitter users, although many members on here would have you think they dont use social media, but put up plenty of links too social media in their posts.

Have a nice day nicky


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

Now then children, let's do some maths.....

A builder makes me a lovely garden wall at a cost of £1000. He provides the bricks, the sand/cement and all the necessary equipment. It takes him all day, in fact let's make the numbers simple and say he worked a long day and it took him 10hrs on site.

The bricks and materials cost £750 so what was his hourly rate for working on site, £100/hr or £25/hr?

In reality he also collected the materials in his own vehicle and delivered them to site which took an additional 2hrs. What is his hourly rate now?

Can anyone give me the right answers? I have my red pen ready.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Now then children, let's do some maths.....
> 
> A builder makes me a lovely garden wall at a cost of £1000. He provides the bricks, the sand/cement and all the necessary equipment. It takes him all day, in fact let's make the numbers simple and say he worked a long day and it took him 10hrs on site.
> 
> ...


totally different scenario...so why not start your own thread based on the above.


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

Just checked the local council, £42 minimum charge for green waste then £15 additional for a 'check/weigh' and a duty of care - so £57. 

That makes say £120 for 4 hours work 'on site' - £30 hour, excluding travel for waste disposal. Not unreasonable.


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## winjim (7 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Can I be the first to label the thread Wastegate?


Excuse me, we are British here. It's the Wastefumo Affair.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> Just checked the local council, £42 minimum charge for green waste then £15 additional for a 'check/weigh' and a duty of care - so £57.
> 
> That makes say £120 for 4 hours work 'on site' - £30 hour, excluding travel for waste disposal. Not unreasonable.


but that cant be right.....posters have said between 100 and 200 for garden waste. are you saying they have all been wrong with their posts???

again that can't be true as these people are perfect and never get anything wrong and never make assumptions. Maybe i should start calling them all names now cause they are wrong.


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

That's my local council minimum charge. It soon goes up depending on weight - so a van load, over 500kg will be nearer £100


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> That's my local council minimum charge. It soon goes up depending on weight - so a van load, over 500kg will be nearer £100


What if he took it there in his estate vehicle and just put it in the garden waste as is own household waste, the same as most home gardeners would do or he put it our for his local council to collect for free, maybe once or twice a week....

How much would he pay then??? 

or if he cut it up/chipped it and used it at home, on his own garden?? what would he pay then??

asking for other posters who assume he paid for removal, although no one is 100% sure he did, as the actual amount paid wasnt listed.


----------



## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> totally different scenario...so why not start your own thread based on the above.


Brings some materials to site at a cost/removes some materials from site at a cost, not so different really?


----------



## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> my query was due to someone paying for garden work, trim bushes, trim some over hanging branches from neighbours garden and cut the grass and *then on top pay for the removal of said garden waste*.....so in all it cost £180





jowwy said:


> asking for other posters who assume he paid for removal, although no one is 100% sure he did, as the actual amount paid wasnt listed.


Your words!


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Brings some materials to site at a cost/removes some materials from site at a cost, not so different really?


100% different, you have been giving all the costs up front £750 for materials and removal of old and £250 for labour......so you have everything you need to know


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Your words!


still doesnt say he paid for removal at a waste site, just that he charged for it....


----------



## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

£45 an hour sounds loads, it would be to cut the grass and do the weeds, but if there is a van/trailer of waste, then £60 minimum for the gardener to get rid, plus time getting there.back - our council place is literally a mile away, but it's a 30 minute minimum round trip with traffic - you've got to pay them for that.

Adding this all in the hourly rate is getting nearer £25 an hour, within that he has tool maintenance costs, something for the waste carrier license, fuel etc etc.


----------



## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> What if he took it there in his estate vehicle and just put it in the garden waste as is own household waste, the same as most home gardeners would do or he put it our for his local council to collect for free, maybe once or twice a week....
> 
> How much would he pay then???
> 
> ...



Ah, but did he go there in a personal vehicle ? Time to chip the waste as home- a couple of hours work.

I'm assuming someone you know paid for grounds maintenance for 4 hours work and removal of said materials. The cost soon adds up. Personally I'd do it myself, and the cost to me is my personal time. If I popped in my 'real' hourly cost - e.g. took half a day off, it would be considerably more than £180 and that's with free waste disposal. 

We don't now how they got rid of the waste but I'd suspect it's a flat rate they charge, more if it's bigger items. 

I've yet to see a wealthy gardener, unless your name is Monty Don or Alan Titchmarsh

Just thinking about it, if he added in the need to provide for a pension, then the rates are bloody cheap. It costs my employer about 35% on top of my hourly rate for pension and NI


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## Bonefish Blues (7 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> *I've yet to see a wealthy gardener*, unless your name is Monty Don or Alan Titchmarsh


Certainly not one that well, actually gardens!


----------



## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> *Ah, but did he go there in a personal vehicle ?* Time to chip the waste as home- a couple of hours work.
> 
> I'm assuming someone you know paid for grounds maintenance for 4 hours work and removal of said materials. The cost soon adds up. *Personally I'd do it myself, and the cost to me is my personal time.* If I popped in my 'real' hourly cost - e.g. t*ook half a day off*, it would be considerably more than £180 and that's with free waste disposal.
> 
> ...


1. Just assuming he may have, same as quite a lot of posters are assuming quite a lot in their replies

2. exactly what i would do.....

3. surely you would get paid for that half days leave, so again just your own time really??


----------



## winjim (7 Dec 2021)

I don't want to put the vat amongst the pigeons but have we already added 20% tax? If we have then £180 is really £150.


----------



## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> 3. surely you would get paid for that half days leave, so again just your own time really??



Yeh but my time could be used on the bike or anything more enjoyable than chopping cuttings up.

So if you think about it, it's probably not that unreasonable a charge. He's probably made some money on this job, but there will be others he barely covers cost due to unforeseen difficulties. All evens out.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

winjim said:


> I don't want to put the vat amongst the pigeons but have we already added 20% tax? If we have then £180 is really £150.


thats if he earns enough to charge VAT


----------



## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> but that cant be right.....posters have said between 100 and 200 for garden waste. are you saying they have all been wrong with their posts???
> 
> again that can't be true as these people are perfect and never get anything wrong and never make assumptions. Maybe i should start calling them all names now cause they are wrong.


Why can't that be right?

The £100-£200 is what is quoted for adding on disposal to a general gardening job.

What he pays the council is a different figure entirely - and of course is not the whole cost to him of disposing of it, since there is also his time, fuel, etc. And of course, when it is added as a chargeable item, the gardener will be intending making a profit out of it.


----------



## All uphill (7 Dec 2021)

I thought this might be an interesting thread about dealing with garden waste, and that I might pick up some tips about composting.

How naive of me.


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> thats if he earns enough to charge VAT
> 
> View attachment 620994


True. And it is unlikely he does.

Again, all assumptions, but if we assume he has a gross turnover of the order of £200 per day, 5 days a week, for 46 weeks per year (to allow for holidays/sick time), then that is £46,000 per year turnover. The VAT registration threshold is currently £85,000.

And I think that £46,000 is probably on the high side even then - there will be a fair amount of time when he is not working billable time, particularly in the winter.


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## Bonefish Blues (7 Dec 2021)

@ all uphill I think you want compost corner.


View: https://youtu.be/TKn5otfZHxE


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## PaulSB (7 Dec 2021)

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/gardener-prices/


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## Randomnerd (7 Dec 2021)

This is a total non-thread, to suit your passive-aggressive appetite. 
Why on earth do you waste so much time droning on about trivial rubbish?
Haven‘t you anything better to do with your time?
I’m having a tea break from my living - building drystone walls. Your hair would catch fire if you knew how much I could sometimes get paid for a job. And how little interest some clients have in the surplus I make from buying and selling stone (because they can afford it) etc etc
And should you have to go through: being undercut by crap wallers with no ticket who throw stone up; waiting for the snow to thaw; waiting for the four wheeler to get up the hill with the stone; being in the workshop fixing your truck; drying off your gear in the dark; thawing your hands with a mug; and so on…you wouldn‘t even think twice about a canny gardener making a decent living.
Most people in these lines of work maybe work 200 days a year if they’re lucky. You simply havent a clue. 

And no, I’m not fresh from the politics section. I very rarely post or comment because the place is becoming as dry as a dry thing, discussing garden waste costs. 

and yes, I have better things to do. What about you?

Wish me a good day. Go on. I know you mean in.

Rude. Arrogant. Aggressive. And a bit dim. I know, but at least I don’t start shoot threads on the internet!


----------



## MontyVeda (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> Id be earning the same as the gardener who is employed by asda and the guy stacking the shelves of the food you purchase…
> 
> lets say £15hr on a *40hr week*…..thats £600 a week before tax. *52 wks in a year,* if you dont take holidays, so thats around £31.2k a year
> 
> lots of people around the UK earning a lot less than that before tax, NI and pension.


thing is... as a sole trader, you're not guaranteed 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year. As a gardener, you'd be lucky to find ten hours a week work through the winter months... which is around £150 a week. You'd be wise to charge double in the summer when there's plenty of work to cover you through the lean winter months.

I've done the same job employed and as a sole trader. Employed I'd accept £8 an hour because i was guaranteed 35 hours a week, paid holidays and paid sick leave. Self employed i charged £30 an hour because nothing was guaranteed.


----------



## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> This is a total non-thread, to suit your passive-aggressive appetite.
> Why on earth do you waste so much time droning on about trivial rubbish?
> Haven‘t you anything better to do with your time?
> I’m having a tea break from my living - building drystone walls. Your hair would catch fire if you knew how much I could sometimes get paid for a job. And how little interest some clients have in the surplus I make from buying and selling stone (because they can afford it) etc etc
> ...


in the garden section...be a bit silly to discuss other stuff in there wouldn't it - its such a non thread you took time to make the above post. obviously you have nothing better to do lol

i mean you could just ignore it like the other 45 thousand or so members have


----------



## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> totally different scenario...so why not start your own thread based on the above.


 The above and others like.... mods please close this thread, 

Do you really think you have sole control over a thread on a forum just because you started it, why not start your own thread  reminds me of primary school kids in the playground.


----------



## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> The above and others like.... mods please close this thread,
> 
> Do you really think you have sole control over a thread on a forum just because you started it, why not start your own thread  reminds me of primary school kids in the playground.


lots of people have said the same in their threads when some one tries a thread hijack.....nothing new here, move on

ive also asked the mods to close it twice now, but they seem happy to keep it open


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)




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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> lots of people have said the same in their threads when some one tries a thread hijack.....nothing new here, move on
> 
> ive also asked the mods to close it twice now, but they seem happy to keep it open


The mods (rightly IMO) make their own decisions about when a thread should be closed.

I used to moderate on a different (non-cycling) forum, and one of the official rules there was "we do not remove posts or close threads on request".


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

I will move on when i decide to or a mod tells me to ,




jowwy said:


> ive also asked the mods to close it twice now, but they seem happy to keep it open



that is exactly my point


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> I will move on when i decide to or a mod tells me to ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so nothing about the thread subject then?? just came here to post towards the poster ( against rules ) rather than adding to the thread.....

now people can see why posts become abusive, breakdown and or degenerate into argument.


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

There have been lots of relevant, informative, well reasoned and accurate posts made in this thread by multiple posters, yet you choose to ignore all of these and take an almost solitary contrary view and deride them all as a childish personal attack on yourself. Maybe it's time you re-read the thread and digested some of the excellent and valid points that have been made rather than having a public tantrum?


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> so nothing about the thread subject then?? just came here to post towards the poster ( against rules ) rather than adding to the thread.....
> 
> now people can see why posts become abusive, breakdown and or degenerate into argument.




No point me posting my thoughts on the subject matter as they are pretty much the same as many others you have disagreed with.

IF any of my posts break forum rules, and if they are reported then i am sure a moderator will deal with them accordingly, thats the way it works, i have not attacked you personally or called you names , i simply said ....well you know what i said , its there for all to see.

now i am not going to tell you what to do because obviously , i cant , but i will make a suggestion, if you dont like the way the thread is going , rather than asking for it to be closed , i am sure it would be just as easy to ignore it.

there, you see point made , no insults , no personal attacks towards another poster , easy innit


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> No point me posting my thoughts on the subject matter as they are pretty much the same as many others you have disagreed with.
> 
> IF any of my posts break forum rules, and if they are reported then i am sure a moderator will deal with them accordingly, thats the way it works, i have not attacked you personally or called you names , i simply said ....well you know what i said , its there for all to see.
> 
> ...


and if your not happy with the thread...you can do the same

no insults, personal attacks or other needed....easy innit

enjoy the rest of your day


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> There have been lots of relevant, informative, well reasoned and accurate posts made in this thread by multiple posters, yet you choose to ignore all of these and take an almost solitary contrary view and deride them all as a *childish personal attack on yourself*. Maybe it's time you re-read the thread and digested some of the excellent and valid points that have been made rather than having a public tantrum?


not said that at all.....just someone decided to call me nuts. some of the points are not valid at all, some are, to which i have pressed *LIKE*

some are just posts at me, rather than the thread itself.

enjoy your day skol.....have a skol on me, next time you have one


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> and if your not happy with the thread...you can do the same



Thank for permission to do the same , even though i dont need( unless you have become a moderator and i hadn't noticed) or want it , of course i could ignore it but the difference being I am not unhappy with the thread and have not stated as such, where as you have asked for it to be closed, told another poster to start their own thread , supposition on my part but i would guess that is because you are not happy with it, and yet you continue with a thread that wish was closed,...... i wonder why.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> Thank for permission to do the same , even though i dont need( unless you have become a moderator and i hadn't noticed) or want it , of course i could ignore it but the difference being I am not unhappy with the thread and have not stated as such, where as you have asked for it to be closed, told another poster to start their own thread , supposition on my part but i would guess that is because you are not happy with it, and yet you continue with a thread that wish was closed,...... i wonder why.


just replying to people who quote my posts...which i think is good manners, ignoring you would make me look ignorant. im happy either way of the post stays open or closed.

if your happy with the post, then hooray, enjoy the thread. But post about the subject rather than just ranting at me


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> But post about the subject rather than just ranting at me




now , you see you are doing it again, you do not get to decide what i post, only moderators can do that , why not report my posts if you think they dont comply with forum rules, let them decide, i have not insulted you or any other poster in this thread in any way, 

please point out where i have ranted at you.


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> .....just someone decided to call me nuts.


For goodness sakes Jowwy, it was me, you can say it and not keep beating about the bush. You know it was me that said it and you are replying to me. I can take it and won't cry.

Now that you have started this ludicrous and pointless argument with most of the people that have contributed to the thread don't go all coy and start acting as though you haven't been the one disagreeing and dismissing everyone else's opinion despite all the perfectly reasoned AND CORRECT comment explaining why you are wrong.


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## jowwy (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> For goodness sakes Jowwy, it was me, you can say it and not keep beating about the bush. You know it was me that said it and you are replying to me. I can take it and won't cry.
> 
> Now that you have started this ludicrous and pointless argument with most of the people that have contributed to the thread *don't go all coy and start acting as though you haven't been the one disagreeing and dismissing everyone else's opinion despite all the perfectly reasoned AND CORRECT comment explaining why you are wrong.*


i have done or said no such thing

have a skol on me 

ps my ignore list is getting longer........


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

jowwy said:


> just someone decided to call me nuts.



yet this seems to be acceptable.



jowwy said:


> your deluded if you do




double standards anyone


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

Just to get back on topic and summarise the thread, for anyone else that falls into this rabbit hole....

How do you dispose of your garden waste?

Some people go the DIY route, either by taking it to civic waste sites or with a localised council collection service. (Some get regular collections included in their council tax, some have to pay a supplement and some have to arrange specific, one-off collections). Others don't do all their own garden maintenance and will pay a contractor to carry out the work and dispose of the spoils.

The OP then gave an anecdotal(?) example of a gardening job that included an unspecified amount of work and an unknown number of additional services but cost £180, which the OP then went on to describe as being unreasonably expensive.

The thread then, not unnaturally, drifted onto the topic of fair pay rates for tradesmen and the associated costs of providing that service. The topic of fly-tipping was also discussed as this can be a problem with cowboy tradesmen or workers trying to make a living at the bottom end of a competitive market.

The general consensus reached by most of the contributors is that some people are happy to do the work and get rid of any waste responsibly in their own time, and that's good because it can be enjoyable, rewarding and we all need a hobby, while other people are either short of the ability, time or inclination to DIY and would rather pay someone else to do the work and tidy up afterwards. This is also good as it creates a job for someone, but don't be surprised if the costs are a bit more than you might think because there are many and varied costs involved that only become apparent once you are not providing your labour for free and disposing of your domestic waste legitimately via your councils domestic refuse collection service or civic collection sites.

There, I think that covers the 13 pages so far?


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## Drago (7 Dec 2021)

Ours is free...but for how long?

Our district council was always well run and in the black. The neighbouring council was quite badly run, and one of the first in the UK to actually run out of money. As a result the two have been forcibly merged, and theyre now talking about charging us for garden waste removal to "level up" with the new council area with which theyve merged where the residents have to pay.

It clearly never occured to them to level up by letting the newcomers have it for free like we always have...

I expect it will become chargeable and we'll start seeing it dumped at the roadside instead, which is ckeatly far cheaper to clear up. Not.


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## potsy (7 Dec 2021)

When I had some work done last year the cost quoted for removal was very high, £150+ so I decided to do it myself. 
Took me 3 or 4 weeks of completely filling my green bin, but at least it was then collected by the council. 
Might as well get some value out of the council tax


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## nickyboy (7 Dec 2021)

I try to get @I like Skol to pick mine up on the pretext that it's "firewood" but he hasn't fallen for it yet. Give it time....


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

nickyboy said:


> but he hasn't fallen for it yet.


Lying scumbag! I'm still chopping the last lot....







A right load of twisted, knotty stuff that was


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Lying scumbag! I'm still chopping the last lot....
> 
> View attachment 621083
> 
> ...


Whata waste of good turning timber


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## Scoosh (7 Dec 2021)

*MOD NOTE:*
Thread being Locked, as it seems to have descended into petty, circular argument and playground squabbles. 

The Moderators would like to point out that the @Moderators link is NOT monitored on a regular basis.
If you wish Mods to view a post/thread with a view to Closing it (and it is at the _Moderators'_ discretion) use the REPORT function – and don't comment publicly that your 'instruction/request' has not been granted (it's actually against the Forum RULZ ).

Thank you.


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