# Froome v Wiggins



## smutchin (1 May 2013)

Do Sky have too many team leaders? Should Wiggo be allowed to defend his Tour title if he wants to? Would Froome have won the TdF last year if team orders hadn't held him back? Are Sky just playing mind games? Do Froome and Wiggins really hate each other? Which one has the fittest girlfriend? 

Speak your branes here - and keep the Giro thread for Giro discussion...


----------



## SS Retro (1 May 2013)

Wiggins for me never been able to take to Froome something about him grates on me. But more than likely Sky tactics make it look like a team with in fighting and come out and destroy all challengers.


----------



## Buddfox (1 May 2013)

Geraint Thomas said this evening he liked the rivalry... this thing will run and run. TBH I wonder if Sky are letting it happen as a distraction to the other teams.


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Do Sky have too many team leaders?


Not in my opinion. 3 Grand Tours - one guy can't win them all.


smutchin said:


> Should Wiggo be allowed to defend his Tour title if he wants to?


The fact is he was given this possibility and chose to prioritise the Giro.
Given he did this and that even a dominant Contador was not capable of winning the Giro and the Tour in the same year, I think he is deluding himself entertaining the thought that he might pull it off at this point and is silly to talk about it publicly.


smutchin said:


> Would Froome have won the TdF last year if team orders hadn't held him back?


 
If Froome had been team leader last year, I think it distinctly likely that he would have ended up winning the tour. Not by as much as Wiggins did in the end but he probably would have won it.
You then have to think, what would have happened regarding the team leadership if Froome had previously been given his head in the Vuelta and indeed had won it, so becoming the first Brit to win a Grand Tour. (What has Cobo done since by the way ?).


smutchin said:


> Are Sky just playing mind games?


No, I don't think this reflects well on them.


smutchin said:


> Do Froome and Wiggins really hate each other?


Hate is probably too strong a word.


smutchin said:


> Which one has the fittest girlfriend?


Isn't Brad married ?


smutchin said:


> Speak your branes here - and keep the Giro thread for Giro discussion...


----------



## tigger (1 May 2013)

What Thom said. He always gets in first and says it better than I can!


----------



## Crackle (1 May 2013)

thom said:


> The fact is he was given this possibility and chose to prioritise the Giro.
> Given he did this and that even a dominant Contador was not capable of winning the Giro and the Tour in the same year, I think he is deluding himself entertaining the thought that he might pull it off at this point and is silly to talk about it publicly.


 
This bit's key. I was trying to recall exactly what he's said about the Giro vs the Tour. He didn't rule the latter out but the implication was that he wouldn't ride to win it. Now he seems to have changed track but all of Sky's prep. looks like a dual approach.

It goes back to the original reasoning of why he's doing the Giro, because this years tour doesn't suit him. Maybe he's re-appraised his form but that seems rash pre-Giro and unfair and Froome clearly sees himself as Tour leader.


----------



## 400bhp (1 May 2013)

Smoke and mirrors is my take.

Sky want to be seen to be unpredictable.


----------



## tug benson (1 May 2013)

Froome will be the leader at the tour, wiggins will need to learn his place...


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> This bit's key. I was trying to recall exactly what he's said about the Giro vs the Tour. He didn't rule the latter out but the implication was that he wouldn't ride to win it. Now he seems to have changed track but all of Sky's prep. looks like a dual approach.
> 
> It goes back to the original reasoning of why he's doing the Giro, because this years tour doesn't suit him. Maybe he's re-appraised his form but that seems rash pre-Giro and unfair and Froome clearly sees himself as Tour leader.


Agreed. 

Going back to Froome's second place in the Vuelta, I wonder if Wiggins hadn't crashed out of the Tour that year, would Froome have been given backing enough to win it ? Perhaps Wiggins would have won that Tour instead of Cadel though. Ifs and buts abound.

Anyway, hopefully this will blow over as soon as the Giro starts. I really want Wiggo to win that and if he does so, for it to be understood as a better achievement than his tour win.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

No way is this some sort of mind game or pr stunt by Sky, that's complete rubbish.
I can see why Wiggins would like to target the double, if he pulls it off he will be in the select company of past greats such as Merckx Coppi and Anquetil, so you can see the temptation.
Sky are probably toiling to manage this, having told the world Froome will be TdF leader, well, it is a conflict.
Very good analysis by Robert Millar on the situation here which I am inclined to agree with.


----------



## themosquitoking (1 May 2013)

thom said:


> Anyway, hopefully this will blow over as soon as the Giro starts. I really want Wiggo to win that and if he does so, for it to be understood as a better achievement than his tour win.


Not challenging your opinion,just interested, but why do you say that?


----------



## 400bhp (1 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> No way is this some sort of mind game or pr stunt by Sky, that's complete rubbish.
> I can see why Wiggins would like to target the double, if he pulls it off he will be in the select company of past greats such as Merckx Coppi and Anquetil, so you can see the temptation.
> Sky are probably toiling to manage this, having told the world Froome will be TdF leader, well, it is a conflict.
> Very good analysis by Robert Millar on the situation here which I am inclined to agree with.


 
If you say so.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> If you say so.


I said so, yes.


----------



## tigger (1 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Not challenging your opinion,just interested, but why do you say that?



Because the Parcours (route) for this years Giro is widely regarded as more difficult (mountainous) than last years Tour de France. Also there is slightly less individual Time Trial distance in the Giro which is Wiggin's forte. So if you like it's a harder race on paper for Wiggins and doesn't play to his strengths as much as last years Tour


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

User said:


> and Stephen Roche  who also won the rainbow jersey in the same year..


Yes of course, but Roche (and Merckx) are the only two folk to win the 'triple crown', so I did not list him as Wiggins will never manage that.


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Not challenging your opinion,just interested, but why do you say that?


That it would be a better win ? Because he'll have had to beat pure climbers and likely he'll be more exposed individually.

We all know he comes from a track background, an Olympic pursuit champion, a TT specialist, a guy who goes exceedingly fast on his own when it's flat. But he's made an extraordinary transition to be a Grand Tour rider and Tour winner, however this was largely based upon his TT prowess and the concerted efforts of his team to control a race.
The Giro parcours is different in nature to the Tour in general, with more emphasis on extreme climbing stages, steeper gradients and typically less importance on individual time trials. This Giro has 2 ITTs, the second being an uphill one that doesn't play naturally into his ITT world. It will be harder for his team to control due to the gradients and with time bonuses for the first 3 over the line, it favours those with explosive finishes too. He'll have to fight and win more battles for himself.

I think this amounts to saying it doesn't play to Wiggins' strengths as a rider in the way the Tour did last year. On top of that, arguably his team is slightly weaker than the TdF one last year and Nibali has improved too. To win the Giro would really show he can adapt his abilities as a bike rider into a different realm, making him rather unique in the modern age of riders.

Edit - I see @tigger said just about the same thing before me this time, but with fewer words ;-)


----------



## themosquitoking (1 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Because the Parcours (route) for this years Giro is widely regarded as more difficult (mountainous) than last years Tour de France. Also there is slightly less individual Time Trial distance in the Giro which is Wiggin's forte. So if you like it's a harder race on paper for Wiggins and doesn't play to his strengths as much as last years Tour


Ah i see, cheers. Does the fact there's a team time trail help him at all?


----------



## 400bhp (1 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I said so, yes.


 
you did, have a banana


----------



## themosquitoking (1 May 2013)

thom said:


> That it would be a better win ? Because he'll have had to beat pure climbers and likely he'll be more exposed individually.
> 
> We all know he comes from a track background, an Olympic pursuit champion, a TT specialist, a guy who goes exceedingly fast on his own when it's flat. But he's made an extraordinary transition to be a Grand Tour rider and Tour winner, however this was largely based upon his TT prowess and the concerted efforts of his team to control a race.
> The Giro parcours is different in nature to the Tour in general, with more emphasis on extreme climbing stages, steeper gradients and typically less importance on individual time trials. This Giro has 2 ITTs, the second being an uphill one that doesn't play naturally into his ITT world. It will be harder for his team to control due to the gradients and with time bonuses for the first 3 over the line, it favours those with explosive finishes too. He'll have to fight and win more battles for himself.
> ...


 
Yeah, but also maybe with not so much passion. Not that it wasn't a great answer, i don't understand this pro stuff much yet.


----------



## tigger (1 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Ah i see, cheers. Does the fact there's a team time trail help him at all?



Maybe, maybe not. On paper Sky have a great Team Time Trial squad and they delivered recently at Trentino. But Sky have been below par generally in Team Time Trials. It's a variable which Wiggins cold probably do without. Wait and see what happens on the day...


----------



## themosquitoking (1 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Maybe, maybe not. On paper Sky have a great Team Time Trial squad and they delivered recently at Trentino. But Sky have been below par generally in Team Time Trials. It's a variable which Wiggins cold probably do without. Wait and see what happens on the day...


 
It seems to me that apart from Wiggins sky have at least two other riders that could win.


----------



## themosquitoking (1 May 2013)

Maybe four on current form.


----------



## StuAff (1 May 2013)

Froome (and the missus) can bang on about the ifs and buts and maybes, they can say he's been designated number one for the Tour...means bugger all to the way it will play out. And quite right too. Yes, Chris is on paper a stronger climber, the route favours him more than Wiggo, and yes he's clearly on form....but anything might happen to throw one or both of them of course. If it hadn't been for that crash in 2011, Sky might have been looking at Grand Tour win number four, after all...

And as I stated in the other thread. Wiggo has every right to defend his title. He could have done a Hinault, said 'Froomie next year', then gone back on it. If his position on the Giro and Tour has shifted repeatedly, it's hardly surprising. He couldn't be sure how the early season and his training programme were going to play out. And he's well aware that he hasn't got long at the top of his riding career, can't blame him for wanting to grab more big titles for himself. No reason why a strong Giro campaign couldn't help prepare him for the Tour (Tim Kerrison's stated he'd have enough time to recover etc). Expecting him to just play nice, stick to the plan and support Froomie no matter what (as Ms Cound seems to think should happen) is nonsense. Dave Brailsford has said the possibility of having to designate one or other as Tour leader would be a nice problem to have. I can only agree. If Sky look at the two of them and think one or the the other is the best option beforehand, fair enough, but he'll have to justify that position and the other has to get the freedom to step up if needed. If they decide to let the two of them sort it out on the road, as Wiggo seems to have suggested, again, fair enough. Sky can't forget that every other team will be wanting to throw a spanner in the works. Lady Luck smiled on Sky last year- losing only one rider (and it wasn't Wiggo or Froomie after all), avoiding all the crashes, surviving Tackgate unscathed, none of the other fancied runners really delivered. It's unlikely to be so straightforward again....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Yes of course, but Roche (and Merckx) are the only two folk to win the 'triple crown', so I did not list him as Wiggins will never manage that.


Hinault too or was that the Vuelta and Tour?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Hinault too or was that the Vuelta and Tour?


Yes him too, I just did not write a whole list out, just illustrating my point ...Indurain, Battaglin, Pantani, Contador.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

So Robin has gone off and decided to start his own gang. He's sick of sitting in the shadows of the caped crusader.
Batman doesn't quite like the idea of joining Robin's gang as he is frickin Batman not Wingman!! He can kick any bad guys asses himself. He can manage without his sidekick. 
Problem is are Batman and Robin stronger as a team and will they be able to beat the villains on their own?? Robin is unproven to date, yet he has lots of potential. Batman was a box office smash in 2012 and who would bet against him in 2013?


----------



## Monsieur Remings (1 May 2013)

I agree with Thom's points.

I like Wiggins a lot but feel that he had his opportunity to stake his claim on defending the Tour de France this year, and ducked out by focusing on the Giro, at least in regard to what he said to the Press beforehand. (I have a sneaking suspicion that this was borne of some sort of snub too, and I may be wrong, because I firmly believe he thinks the French TDF authorities - ASO, and the TDF hierarchy - were 'naive' in regard to the whole Armstrong episode. I remember his attitude when interviewed during the October unveiling, reflecting this and this coupled with his obvious respect for the Giro, may have helped shape his decision, if you can call it that).

Either way, I think he would have been fully within his rights to say that he wanted to lead Team Sky to victory again in the TDF and I believe that Sky would not have denied him. This could have paved the way for Froome to have left, knowing that his super-domestique duties in 2012 would not have been enough - as they were for Lemond for Hinault in 85' - to be told that next year would be his chance.

Now has Froome been given that assurance? I don't know but it certainly seems to point to the fact that he has and that this recent 'backtracking' from Wiggins is not what was originally planned? FWIW, I don't think there are any mind games here, potentially Team Sky have the best, most dominant team for any grand tour but this leads on to my other point.

Both Froome and Wiggins are amazing riders - see, what a revelation there guys and girls, bet you didn't know that . BUT, IMO, in order to truly dominate again like they did in 2012 in France, the team needs _both_ Froome and Wiggins. In this sense, Wiggins could be right in that the race could determine the winner from two equally gifted, strong riders, but, it didn't in 2012 and it didn't in 1985 and that's just the way cycling has always been falling short of a team leader crashing out. The strong man is always anointed before the race in each team (or should I say leader, Greg Lemond?) and I can't help thinking this whole episode is going to be counter-productive for Team Sky given the confusion. Given the team orders last year handed to Froome at such a critical point, it seems unlikely that such an approach - namely that the race itself will determine - is the best approach, or indeed the most genuine, at least from the outset.

FWIW - and I may be wrong - Wiggins may struggle winning the Giro without Froome, whilst Froome with the support of Wiggins at the TDF will do better as would Wiggins with the support of Froome at the TDF if that's how it pans out. This takes nothing away from Wiggo, he took enough out of the bunch with his TT ability but what could, or would have happened if Froome had been let loose last year? We'll never know...

More pertinent perhaps, is why isn't Froome supporting Wiggo in Italy, in order for Wiggo to do the right thing in France?


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> More pertinent perhaps, is why isn't Froome supporting Wiggo in Italy, in order for Wiggo to do the right thing in France?


Did you watch the Vuelta last year?


----------



## Monsieur Remings (2 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Did you watch the Vuelta last year?


 
I did Colin, and Wiggins wasn't there. Maybe I'm missing your point?


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> I did Colin, and Wiggins wasn't there. Maybe I'm missing your point?


The point is that Froome worked hard for Wiggins in last year's TdF. When he came to ride the Vuelta he ended up exhausted and unable to manage a spot on the podium. 

If Froome rode the Giro for Wiggins, I could see him being exhausted for this year's TdF, and I can also see Wiggins being exhausted at the TdF himself having gone flat out in the Giro. 

Not many people have managed to do well in 2 Grand Tours back-to-back, and I reckon that many of the few that did may well have been assisted by more than just team mates! (Pantani, for sure.)

Wiggins seems to think he can cope with 2 Grand Tours on the trot, but Froome certainly burned out when he tried it.


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> So Robin has gone off and decided to start his own gang. He's sick of sitting in the shadows of the caped crusader.
> Batman doesn't quite like the idea of joining Robin's gang as he is frickin Batman not Wingman!!



Brilliant. This is the best analysis of the situation I've read yet. Not just here - anywhere.


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2013)

And another thing... if Wiggo and Froome are the new Hinaut and Lemond, does that make Porte the new Andy Hampsten?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (2 May 2013)

It's all very interesting stuff. 

Either way team Sky will have to become one complete unflinching, unwavering team come tour time. IMO Wiggins nor Frome can handle an on form Contador without the kind of support Wiggins received in 2012. 
Wether or not they will is anyone's guess at this point.


----------



## Noodley (2 May 2013)

They should both appear on the Jeremy Kyle Show - or Loose Women. Or get Piers Morgan to interview them.


----------



## Crackle (2 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> .
> Very good analysis by Robert Millar on the situation here which I am inclined to agree with.


 
I like Millar and that's a great article. He knows a thing or two about the Giro too.


----------



## Crackle (2 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> More pertinent perhaps, is why isn't Froome supporting Wiggo in Italy, in order for Wiggo to do the right thing in France?


 
Just on that. If you recall, Froome was knackered at the Vuelta last year after the Tour and the Olympics. If Sky really think they can do the double they would have taken a different approach. They've planned on not doing a double with one rider, precisely because they think it can't be done. I imagine they still think that and I'd be surprised if Wiggo is designated Tour leader as opposed to backup but in the meantime they're not really losing anything with this kind of coverage.


----------



## Boris Bajic (2 May 2013)

Just as Luis Suarez's gnashers and our new-found fascination with managers' pay-offs and wine lists have distracted us from the football, so this little ditty distracts from the racing.

*At worst* it is dirty linen being washed in public, which is undignified and unedifying. I cringed last year when spouses and significant otters were tweeting about the rivalry. It was as cool and dignified as the self-publicising by the Speaker's wife in Westminster. A tweet looking for something to have a view on. Grubby.

*At best* it is a pro-cycling team trying to whip up a little dust cloud of media interest and to associate in the mind of Joe Punter the Giro (largely ignored outside cycling circles) and the Tour (on which everyone who has ever seen a bicycle is a self-appointed expert).

It might add a little frisson during the Tour (it probably will if both riders start and stay in the race) but at one level it's all a little Prost/Senna or Vettel/Webber or Villeneuve/Pironi.

I am one of the mugs who didn't think Wiggins would take to the road too well and didn't see him as a GT winner even after his strong showing in LA's last Tour, so I know nothing. Most people I know had him down as a TdF winner from the off. They hadn't heard of the Giro, so didn't have a view on that.

As a neutral, I'd like to see an unfancied rider come through and do a number on Sky, but that isn't really how the TdF works. Sky look strong right though the squad and have the management in place to win both, with whichever rider.

I'm looking forward to both races nonetheless. It's like summer again....


----------



## 400bhp (2 May 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> *At best* it is a pro-cycling team trying to whip up a little dust cloud of media interest and to associate in the mind of Joe Punter the Giro (largely ignored outside cycling circles) and the Tour (on which everyone who has ever seen a bicycle is a self-appointed expert).


 
Hadn't thought of that


----------



## Monsieur Remings (2 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> The point is that Froome worked hard for Wiggins in last year's TdF. When he came to ride the Vuelta he ended up exhausted and unable to manage a spot on the podium.
> 
> *If Froome rode the Giro for Wiggins, I could see him being exhausted for this year's TdF, and I can also see Wiggins being exhausted at the TdF himself having gone flat out in the Giro.*
> 
> ...


 
I agree, but perhaps this is all the more reason for them both to be there for both tours? Last year Froome was knackered for sure but the great unknown is how much better/worse they'd have done with Wiggins there too..?

Likewise this year, they obviously think Wiggins is capable of riding well at them both so why not Froome too? There are no Olympics this year and I'd imagine he's capable (Froome) if Wiggins is, that's all.

I still think they'll need each other to be decisive in either, just like last year


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

I really thought that there seemed to be a lot of friction between the two of them at the Tour last year and it only seems to have got worse. I think the WAGS/Twitter thing is pretty silly. Obviously, their partners are free to say whatever they like but I would have a quiet word and ask mine not to do it.

I can see the idea of 'insurance' but having 2 young men with massive drive and ambition in the same team is asking for trouble.


----------



## dragon72 (2 May 2013)

"young ... with massive drive and ambition" - every professional sportsperson ever


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

dragon72 said:


> "young ... with massive drive and ambition" - every professional sportsperson ever


Okay - I forgot the 'immensely talented'! No problem with drive and ambition in a team as long as there are not 2 Alpha males fighting to be top dog.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

Am I the only one who doesn't really care?


----------



## Dave Davenport (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really care?


 
Posting in this thread? Most likely.


----------



## 400bhp (2 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Okay - I forgot the 'immensely talented'! No problem with drive and ambition in a team as long as there are not 2 Alpha males fighting to be top dog.


 
No Colin, there's Wiggins and everyone else


----------



## Rob3rt (2 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Posting in this thread? Most likely.


 
So indifference is not a legitimate and voiceable position?


----------



## thom (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> So indifference is not a legitimate and voiceable position?


Who cares ? 

Anyway, twisted spoke's take : Sir Bradley Wiggins : Tour Troublemaker. 
There's a comparison to Armstrong trying to out psyche Contador a few years ago.
"Wiggins attitude toward Froome seems like conduct unbefitting of a knight of the empire."


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> So indifference is not a legitimate and voiceable position?


Hey, it's only your own time you're wasting.


----------



## Hont (2 May 2013)

If the racing in this year's Tour is anything like as uninteresting as last year's (and that was with a British winner) then I welcome any spat between teammates.

I think Wiggins often makes ill-advised, slightly crass statements e.g. the Man Utd/Wigan comparison when he left Garmin for Sky (remind me which team won a Grand Tour first) and "sorting the wheat from the chaff" when Sky got rid of some dedicated and hard working riders who had done everything asked of them (e.g. Russell Downing). And let's not forget the infamous press conference at the beginning of last year's Tour. So his latest off-message escapade is hardly a surprise.

Right now it seems a stupid distraction for a team trying to win the Giro.


----------



## Hont (2 May 2013)

FWIW I think Wiggins would have won the Tour last year regardless. No-one is attacking at the bottom of a climb and taking minutes at the top of mountains any more and with no time bonuses where was Froome supposed to find 3'21?

He has a right to defend his title, but if he goes full out for the Giro, I cannot see him being in condition to compete.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (2 May 2013)

He talks but not really about Wiggins and Froome. 

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28850_8685124,00.html


----------



## Crankarm (2 May 2013)

There appear to be a lot of what ifs.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (2 May 2013)

User said:


> I think we have to consider when the grand tours take place, I think a rider can compete in the Giro and the Tour, as at this time of the year they should be at their peak fitness, plus both have changeable weather conditions, where as the Vuelta is near the end of a long season and always energy sapping hot,
> 
> some might find this interesting..(from wiki)
> 
> ...


A more likely double nowadays may be Giro - Vuelta given the Vuelta has moved on to later in the year now.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (2 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Just on that. If you recall, Froome was knackered at the Vuelta last year after the Tour and the Olympics. If Sky really think they can do the double they would have taken a different approach. They've planned on not doing a double with one rider, precisely because they think it can't be done. I imagine they still think that and I'd be surprised if Wiggo is designated Tour leader as opposed to backup but in the meantime they're not really losing anything with this kind of coverage.


 
Sorry Crackle, didn't see this. Yes, as I responded to Colin, I agree he was knackered, although I wouldn't take anything away from the other riders who worked well together to get the better of him. Like you say, I'd be surprised if Wiggo was to lead in the TDF because of this but I still think - and I may be wrong - that they may need each other to do as well again.


----------



## beastie (2 May 2013)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Like you say, I'd be surprised if Wiggo was to lead in the TDF because of this but I still think - and I may be wrong - that they may need each other to do as well again.



If Wiggins holds top form for the tour then that is a massive tactical plus fir Sky. Bertie and the rest will need to distance him in the mountains, meaning more attacks, and Catweasel will have to cover them. Cue Clenbutador and JRod launching attacks pulled back by Froome, all the while Wiggins diesel chugging along behind in a steady(but fast) uphill TT. Froome jumps with a couple of K left and the other climbers have to respond. If they go into the red then watch out behind as Wiggins gradually pulls them back. 

Froome will need 2 mins maybe( probably a fair bit less) to allow for TT losses. Bertie a bit more. Rodriguez needs to put time in on 3/4 occasions to hold off Froome, Wiggins and Bertie. 

Ok pipe dream over. What'll actually happen I have nae idea.


----------



## StuAff (2 May 2013)

It ain't going to be all over until Lesley Garrett murders the National Anthem.......


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> It ain't going to be all over until Lesley Garrett murders the National Anthem.......


I'd forgotten that - blimey, that was a painful thing to witness!


----------



## StuAff (2 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I'd forgotten that - blimey, that was a painful thing to witness!


Not as painful as it was to hear.


----------



## redcard (2 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really care?



It's the CC equivalent of that orange one in TOWIE falling out with that other orange one in TOWIE, and and all the fans going mad about it.


----------



## ColinJ (3 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> Not as painful as it was to hear.


I meant it in the sense of seeing _and_ hearing it. I found it a blood-curdling experience. In fact, I mean a_ truly_ blood-curdling experience - I went out for a ride on my bike in the sunshine 20 minutes later and came back after 2 hours suffering from near fatal blood clots!


----------



## smutchin (3 May 2013)

Excellent piece on The Psychology Of Wiggins by Richard Moore:
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,,16299_8683929,00.html


----------



## smutchin (3 May 2013)

Obree's take on the rivalry:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hris-Froome-decide-who-is-the-best-rider.html


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Obree's take on the rivalry:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hris-Froome-decide-who-is-the-best-rider.html


Maybe they should race against each other to see who's best....


----------



## Hont (3 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I'd forgotten that


Me too, thanks for the reminder.


----------



## fozy tornip (5 May 2013)

If Froome never wins a major tour I won't be upset.
Thought his ostentatious and theatrical undermining of Wiggins on the climbs last year was as ugly as it was purposeless as it was cowardly.
Ugly because it cast a pall over what should have been a moment of unalloyed triumph for UK cycling's time-served great.
Purposeless because the data available to Sky management will have made clear to them which of the two were stronger on those stages - Wiggins on the rivet, Froome riding well within himself, say - to shape future team strategy and leadership accordingly, without Froome's attention-seeking hamming.
Cowardly because if you're going to put your team leader to the sword you should just do it, in the manner of Roche, rather than give it you could have but didn't, like some handwringing Prince Hamlet of cycling.
Sky could've put Richie Porte on the podium last year, had they given Froome his role of expending himself hammering out the tempo on the lower slopes, and protected Richie to shepherd Wiggins over the tops, but we've had no histrionics from Porte.


----------



## Nearly there (5 May 2013)

It was said on Eurosport yesterday that Wiggins and Froome haven't spoke since the Tdf


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Nearly there said:


> It was said on Eurosport yesterday that Wiggins and Froome haven't spoke since the Tdf


Including the immediate aftermath of the Olympic ITT where it was fairly obvious that Wiggins was avoiding Froome.


----------



## WannabeCyclist (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Including the immediate aftermath of the Olympic ITT where it was fairly obvious that Wiggins was avoiding Froome.


 
I find that hard to believe, I saw them talking in the Tour of Oman


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Nearly there said:


> It was said on Eurosport yesterday that Wiggins and Froome haven't spoke since the Tdf


 
To anyone?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

WannabeCyclist said:


> I find that hard to believe, I saw them talking in the Tour of Oman


Yep, I'm sure they'll have at least a professional relationship in races.


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

OK, maybe Eurosport need to refine their "not spoken since..." to "Wiggins and Froome have not spoken to each other about world poverty since..."


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> OK, maybe Eurosport need to refine their "not spoken since..." to "Wiggins and Froome have not spoken to each other about world poverty since..."


At the Tour of Oman Froomedawg was heard to whisper to Brad, "Can you believe that Noodley bloke still hasn't got a decent internet feed!"


----------



## tug benson (6 May 2013)

Team Sky Team Principal Sir Dave Brailsford has re-emphasised the team’s Grand Tour objectives after a strong start to the season.

The team sits in a position of luxury with the ability to target the top step of the podium across all three of cycling’s Grand Tours.

Chris Froome, Sir Bradley Wiggins and, after victory at Paris-Nice, Richie Porte, lead that charge – the trio having proven on multiple occasions that they are capable of targeting the biggest prizes in cycling.

Froome and Wiggins have twice finished on the same podium together following a three-week Grand Tour, first at the Vuelta a Espana in 2011 and again at the Tour de France last season.

Amid speculation around who will lead Team Sky into the Tour this summer, Brailsford has reaffirmed the team’s plans, with targeting victory at the Giro d’Italia the immediate priority.

“We're in a fantastic position - we have two of the best GC riders in the world and they are both great racers with a competitive will to win,” he said.

“Since the start of season, Bradley's performance plan has focused around training specifically to try and win the Giro and then ride the Tour, whilst Chris’ has been focused on attempting to win the Tour.

“Now we're here - the Giro has started and Bradley has done a brilliant job of getting in the best-possible condition for his assault on the race.”

*On Track*



While Wiggins and Team Sky’s Giro squad are out hunting the maglia rosa, on Friday Froome spent the day on a recce of stage 15 of the Tour and the infamous Mont Ventoux.

The 27-year-old has enjoyed an outstanding season to date, powering to overall victories at the Tour of Oman, Criterium International and Tour de Romandie with four individual stage wins along the way. With his early-season form stronger than even Froome himself could have hoped, preparations are firmly on track.

On the decision process for this summer Brailsford added: “As always the team selection is a management decision and it will be evidence-based. However it is crucial there is clarity of purpose and for that reason we will go to the Tour with one leader.

“Taking that into consideration and given Chris’ step up in performances this year, our plan, as it has been since January is to have him lead the Tour de France team.

“With over seven weeks until the Tour and the Giro to focus on, our final selection of nine won’t be confirmed until after the Dauphine.

“Everyone here is 100% focused on this race and the next three weeks


----------



## vernon (6 May 2013)

Read about it here


----------



## Crackle (6 May 2013)

^ It couldn't really have been any other way, so one is left wondering wtf Wiggins was on about.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

Did Brailsford not get the memo from Wiggins then ?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

that's the final decision made then, until Wiggins next press conference anyway....


----------



## tug benson (6 May 2013)

whats was wiggins game then? why come out and say what he said?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 May 2013)

Head scratching also with the whole thing............

I wonder if he could have been winding Froome up? He does appear to have a sense of humour that's a bit on the wicked side. 
On the other hand he maybe really does believe that he has more to offer than Froome. We will find out when the roads start rising. Froome will undoubtedly try to put time onto Wiggins to prove he is better on the incline. 

It's going to be interesting. 

Though better not find out it's some sort of publicity stunt. That kind of crap is for Posh spice, Peter Andre and Jordan.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

No chance it is a PR stunt, why unsettle people ?

From RoadCC site.... "So while Sky's backing for Froome to lead at the Tour is probably as unequivocal as it prudently can be, given the nature of professional sport it does come with a measure of qualification"

So, if Froome does pretty good at Dauphiné then he is the #1 guy for TdF. Wiggins will need to put up or shut up if that is the case. It will be quite the thing seeing Wiggins giving Froome a wheel if he needs one. Canny wait.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> No chance it is a PR stunt, why unsettle people ?
> 
> From RoadCC site.... "So while Sky's backing for Froome to lead at the Tour is probably as unequivocal as it prudently can be, given the nature of professional sport it does come with a measure of qualification"
> 
> So, if Froome does pretty good at Dauphiné then he is the #1 guy for TdF. Wiggins will need to put up or shut up if that is the case. It will be quite the thing seeing Wiggins giving Froome a wheel if he needs one. Canny wait.


It will be double interesting if Wiggins holds Froomes wheel on every climb! I kind of doubt it but it would spectacular to watch.


----------



## StuAff (6 May 2013)

We'll have more idea about whether Brad can keep up with him on the climbs in the next couple of weeks..

Dave's talk to the two of them would probably be somewhat reminiscent of the Joyce Grenfell nursery monologue...
'Bradley, Bradley, don't do that. Yes, I know you can tear the ****'s legs off in a TT, but you won the Tour last year. We already decided Chris was going to have a go at winning it this year, didn't we? And Chris, you were very bad to Bradley last year, but as you've been good this year, we're going to give you another chance. No running off up the road unless I say so, OK? Unless you mess up, in which case Bradley gets to tear your legs off and we won't charge your Di2 battery. And please get Michelle to keep quiet, that whining is very tiresome'.


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

I'll tell you what is fecking tiresome - you lot and your nobber Hello magazine twitterings.


----------



## dellzeqq (6 May 2013)

this is a tad more complicated (and a lot more stupid) than some people think. Wiggins is effectively saying 'If I can beat him, I will'. Now......each and every professional rider is thinking about his next contract and maybe his next team. And the Sky riders might be forgiven for wondering if Froome is really a GC winner, capable of bringing the big bucks in to the team. Or is he just another climber? And, if Froome is the undisputed number one in the Sky firmament, and he's not a GC winner, wouldn't they be better off hanging with Wiggins, who may well move at the end of the season?


----------



## fozy tornip (6 May 2013)

Curious timing, Wiggins being three days into the Giro, to hit him with this.
Either Sky are playing some deep, opaque strategy, or it's bloody chaos. Dunno which.
Am reminded of the televised world chess championships: bunch of pundits commentating on Karpov v Kasparov, say: all credible IMs and GMs but not to the standard of K and K, obviously, or they'd be contesting the world championship rather than commentating. Games would unfold that they could not understand - assessments of who had the advantage, predictions, suggested moves all shown to be callow by the action on the board.
So either something inscrutably subtle's going on, or Sky's management are actually a bit sh1t.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 May 2013)

I did think that Sky were throwing uncertainty around in order to blindside the other teams, but now I reckon it looks more like Sky's people skills are a not as good as they might be
http://road.cc/content/news/63022-w...ave-her-out-team-pursuit-squad-was-vindictive
and mark this. Roche won despite his team. He picked up people on the road (as Kelly did before him). If Wiggins thinks he can win, then there is nothing to stop him doing the same - if, of course, he makes the nine.


----------



## StuAff (7 May 2013)

Can only agree with that. Telling Wiggins he's number two looks plain stupid to the general public, less than utterly sensible to the likes of us, and downright insulting to both of them- whatever happens one or both of them is going to have nagging doubts in their minds. Was it too much to tell them both 'Let's see how you two are before the Tour before making our minds up'? Let alone 'You're joint number one, sort it out on the road'.


----------



## User169 (7 May 2013)

Standing on the platform at Antwerp station with my bike on saturday night and some Belgian started banging on to me about this Wiggo/Froome business!


----------



## Rob3rt (7 May 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Standing on the platform at Antwerp station with my bike on saturday night and some Belgian started banging on to me about this Wiggo/Froome business!


 
Did you ignore him then later check the commuting or general cycling discussions sections to see if he came on here to have a whinge about it?


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Standing on the platform at Antwerp station with my bike on saturday night and some Belgian started banging on to me about this Wiggo/Froome business!


 
I hope you told him that he was a nobber


----------



## raindog (7 May 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Standing on the platform at Antwerp station with my bike on saturday night and some Belgian started banging on to me about this Wiggo/Froome business!


I feel your pain. So difficult to avoid this stuff, it's even penetrating into corners of European railway stations now.


----------



## Crackle (7 May 2013)

Even the birds were on about it this morning. One going fr-ooome, fr-ooome and a pigeon going woo-iggins, woo-igins, woo-igins.

A real twitter feed.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

Wiggins wins the Giro - He will get the go ahead for leader in the TdF, chance of the double.
Wiggins does not win the Giro - Froome is yer man, chance of double for him with the Vuelta.
Just a guess.


----------



## The Couch (8 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Did you ignore him then later check the commuting or general cycling discussions sections to see if he came on here to have a whinge about it?


Hey Hey...there are no whining Belgians to be found here *hum*hum* 

@ Delftse Post: At least it gives you an opportunity to talk cycling beyond this forum, right?
... And - knowing the NMBS (Belgian Railways) - at least you could use it to fill up the time waiting for the train


----------



## Sittingduck (8 May 2013)

Why can't they both go for it and the strongest on the day/s wins?!

Just to add that I think BW is doing a bit of a wind-up job. Fair play to him too.


----------



## SeeFarr (8 May 2013)

Id go with Froome this year for the tdf, i dont think Wiggos got it in him this year. I cant see him winning the Giro either. i dont think hes looked particularly strong at all yet.

Bigger question is who'll be the first one to leave team Sky next season? Wiggo or Froome?


----------



## rich p (8 May 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> Why can't they both go for it and the strongest on the day/s wins?!
> 
> Just to add that I think BW is doing a bit of a wind-up job. Fair play to him too.


It's possible but fraught with danger to have two team-mates going for the top spot. Do they race against each other in a head to head? If one is in yellow, does the other gift him the stage?
The team leader also expects his main wingman to be the last on the road helping his cause to his own detriment by burning himself out on the climb or covering attacks. I can't see Brad doing that for Froome either.


----------



## thom (8 May 2013)

SeeFarr said:


> Id go with Froome this year for the tdf, i dont think Wiggos got it in him this year. I cant see him winning the Giro either. i dont think hes looked particularly strong at all yet.
> 
> Bigger question is who'll be the first one to leave team Sky next season? Wiggo or Froome?


Well Richie Porte has just resigned with SKY. So there you go.


----------



## VamP (8 May 2013)

Re-signed
Resigned
I wonder which?


----------



## thom (8 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Re-signed
> Resigned
> I wonder which?


http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/538264/richie-porte-extends-his-sky-contract.html


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 May 2013)

SeeFarr said:


> Id go with Froome this year for the tdf, i dont think Wiggos got it in him this year. I cant see him winning the Giro either. i dont think hes looked particularly strong at all yet.
> 
> Bigger question is who'll be the first one to leave team Sky next season? Wiggo or Froome?


Uran.


----------



## SeeFarr (9 May 2013)

Yeah I heard Uran was leaving. Any idea where he's going?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (9 May 2013)

fozy tornip said:


> Curious timing, Wiggins being three days into the Giro, to hit him with this.
> Either Sky are playing some deep, opaque strategy, or it's bloody chaos. Dunno which.
> Am reminded of the televised world chess championships: bunch of pundits commentating on Karpov v Kasparov, say: all credible IMs and GMs but not to the standard of K and K, obviously, or they'd be contesting the world championship rather than commentating. Games would unfold that they could not understand - assessments of who had the advantage, predictions, suggested moves all shown to be callow by the action on the board.
> So either something inscrutably subtle's going on, or Sky's management are actually a bit sh1t.


Interesting.

You watch televised chess??


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (9 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It's possible but fraught with danger to have two team-mates going for the top spot. Do they race against each other in a head to head? If one is in yellow, does the other gift him the stage?
> The team leader also expects his main wingman to be the last on the road helping his cause to his own detriment by burning himself out on the climb or covering attacks. I can't see Brad doing that for Froome either.


Exactly and also worth mentioning that Froome would be stronger with Wiggins as a super domestique - just as Wiggins was with Froome @2012 TDF. 
If they both have their own interests then there would be mayhem. Who would the team work for? 

The only way Wiggins will get a shot at it will be if Froome finds himself out of reach and Wiggins is closer to the GC. If Froome is 1st and Wiggins 2nd, a few weeks in, then Wiggins will be a foot soldier and no more than back up should Froome put a foot wrong or crash out etc. Sky are stacking the deck but they are dealing with egos and not just cards.


----------



## thom (9 May 2013)

SeeFarr said:


> Yeah I heard Uran was leaving. Any idea where he's going?


OPQS are sending out feelers apparently.
I think BMC are interested in Froome according to Gazetta today, as well as Sagan.
For SKY, if you had to hold on to one of Wiggins or Froome, I think its a no brainer you hold on to Froome, based upon his age and all round balance as a GC talent. Porte just re-signed with SKY.
If Wiggo doesn't win this Giro, can he really say he's a better medium term bet for winning grand tours over Froome, Porte and SKY's Columbiana ?


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 May 2013)

thom said:


> If Wiggo doesn't win this Giro, can he really say he's a better medium term bet for winning grand tours over Froome, Porte and SKY's Columbiana ?


 
But Wiggins has got the biggest profile with the British public and will give Sky best value for their money. Maybe not what DB would base a decision on but it's bound to be a factor.


----------



## thom (9 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> But Wiggins has got the biggest profile with the British public and will give Sky best value for their money.


That is a very debatable position - DB would look a right numpty if Froome left SKY and started beating Wiggins left right and centre at the races the Brad chose to target.


----------



## lukesdad (9 May 2013)

When the spanish armada attacks Wiggo's gonna be left floundering in the harbour. Brailsford saw the writing on the wall in last years vuelta. Sky have no choice really.


----------



## ColinJ (9 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> When the spanish armada attacks Wiggo's gonna be left floundering in the harbour.


Well, he'd better TT them to death first then, hadn't he!


----------



## StuAff (9 May 2013)

thom said:


> That is a very debatable position - DB would look a right numpty if Froome left SKY and started beating Wiggins left right and centre at the races the Brad chose to target.


Indeed. Rumours of Brad's demise as a GC contender will only be confirmed or denied in the coming weeks and months. But the changing of the Sky guard (be it Froome if he doesn't jump ship or AN Other) will be happening sooner or later.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Today's evil Giro stage may well be a good indicator of Brad's true form - if one or more of the other GC contenders decide to go on the attack... Personally, I predict that the evidence will show a rider in excellent shape. Heck, I wouldn't rule out him going on the offensive himself. 

The question of who was the "true" winner of the Vuelta in 2011 is a red herring - by the same reasoning, maybe Brad should be awarded the 2009 Tour, so he's still the first British GT winner whichever way you look at it.


----------



## thom (10 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> Indeed. Rumours of Brad's demise as a GC contender will only be confirmed or denied in the coming weeks and months. But the changing of the Sky guard (be it Froome if he doesn't jump ship or AN Other) will be happening sooner or later.


I think we saw something happen today...


----------



## fozy tornip (10 May 2013)

It's over for Wiggins.
2012 was epic, but it could be another hundred years before a GB rider wins another major tour.
Nonsensical hubris all round, much like the footie: England win a match or two, so are feted as dead certs to win the World Cup.
That Sky could pick which rider would win which Grand Tour this year always struck me as hubristic absurdity. Wiggo's Giro record is, to put it kindly, unspectacular, and Froome got worked over good and proper in last year's Vuelta by Contador and Rodriguez.


----------



## tigger (10 May 2013)

fozy tornip said:


> It's over for Wiggins.
> 2012 was epic, but it could be another hundred years before a GB rider wins another major tour.
> Nonsensical hubris all round, much like the footie: England win a match or two, so are feted as dead certs to win the World Cup.
> That Sky could pick which rider would win which Grand Tour this year always struck me as hubristic absurdity. Wiggo's Giro record is, to put it kindly, unspectacular, and Froome got worked over good and proper in last year's Vuelta by Contador and Rodriguez.



You could well be right but I wouldn't write Froome or Wiggins off yet. Remember neither Purito nor Contador rode the TDF as Froome had last year, fatigue was always going to catch up with Froome. Froome's been caught out just once this year, on the penultimate stage of Tirreno (remind anyone of today a bit? - these super lean leggy riders don't like the cold or wet do they?). This aside, he has been the best stage racer by far this year. Unless there is inclimate weather or bad luck, Froome is on course to win the Tour at a canter in my view.

Wiggins? Oh Sir Brad. He had focus and took the lot last year, as he can when he wants to. Also Sky could control things in these races and the uncontrollables didn't seem to put up much fight. This year I think Wiggin's head has gone AWOL. It's happened before in his career after major achievements. Brailsford described him as a Tiger once, when he's hungry he comes out fighting, when he's had his fill he goes back to his den. We'll find out a bit more about his form and character in the TT tomorrow. There's only one thing dangerous enough to hurt Wiggins, and that's himself.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (10 May 2013)

I'm not sure it's over for Wiggins at all, I may be wrong. I think if he's going to win the Giro he'll do it prudently and perhaps with less flare than the TDF of 12' (but that's no surprise given the absence of Froome) but I wouldn't write him off yet. Less still based, if it is, on today's stage. I understand that he (Wiggins) has been researching Miguel Indurain and prudence was the name of his game - take no risk where it isn't necessary and play to your strength. Wiggo has a good team that's for sure - Pate has been excellent all week and Henao and Uran could have taken chunks out of their team leader today, but opted to play the team spirit and good on them.

To put today in perspective how many times has a breakaway of 150km paid off in recent times? Not many times that's for sure...I watched virtually all of the last 100km and there were crashes galore - Nibali came off as did Wiggo - and whilst I wouldn't take anything away from Hansen, everybody was affected today.

Tomorrow - the weather aside - Wiggo has a chance to put the hammer down and I firmly believe he will given the distance. I think tomorrow he'll be in pink. Whether he holds onto it will depend as much on the team as it will him and his form.

As a last point, the Giro is so much more unpredictable than the tour and I reckon Wiggins knows that and despite a bad day at the office, nothing is set in stone yet. if anything I'm glad that there are others putting more work in on the front - a good omen methinks for the business end of the Giro.

But we'll see...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (10 May 2013)

A crazy person would write Wiggo off at this point!! 

Some might say he even rode smart post crash. He realised he could hurt himself out there today and decided to calm it down a bit, lose some time but most importantly make it to the finish 100% fit and ready to fight another day. 

Wiggins could potentially put minutes in to his rivals tomorrow and he knows that. Just need it to be dry.


----------



## fozy tornip (11 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> A crazy person would write Wiggo off at this point!!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (11 May 2013)

fozy tornip said:


>


I knew it!!!


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> A crazy person would write Wiggo off at this point!!
> 
> Some might say he even rode smart post crash. He realised he could hurt himself out there today and decided to calm it down a bit, lose some time but most importantly make it to the finish 100% fit and ready to fight another day.
> 
> Wiggins could potentially put minutes in to his rivals tomorrow and he knows that. Just need it to be dry.


 
I agree with you to a degree.... He definitely 'made sure' post crash but compare his approach to Nibali who simply jumped straight back on and went for it again.

Brad could have settled, jumped straight back on and then ridden slightly within his limits - not peddled as if it were a tow path! Although when safe and flat, he did give it some beans.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

I won't repeat what I said in the Giro thread, but suffice to say Wiggo has left himself with an awful lot to do after yesterday. I'm not writing him off yet but I'm no longer as confident of his chances as I was.


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

Is Froome sitting at home in a large leather armchair, with an evil glint in his eye, stroking a cat...?


----------



## StuAff (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Is Froome sitting at home in a large leather armchair, with an evil glint in his eye, stroking a cat...?


He'd better be careful what he wishes for. He might just get it.....


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Is Froome sitting at home in a large leather armchair, with an evil glint in his eye, stroking a cat...?


 
Looking at how DB seems to operate - i.e. cold, calculating and exact, I would imagine that he has already worked out or thought about how this is all affecting Froome. As it seems quite obvious that it is a little Froome vs Wiggo at Sky (but still a genuine team) this whole debacle could be used massively to motivate Froome. I can just imagine it now; "Guarantee me you won't mess up like this and give it 100% at ALL times" etc.

That may seem a bit harsh on Wiggo and that other chap's tail slide under breaking yesterday was truly scary.... BUT, Wiggo as a genuine GC chappie surely knows that he simply has to push a little harder under adversity?

His book makes great reading and the chap quoted in the book is not the same chap post crash yesterday. Last year, Wiggo seemed to be all about 'sh1t happens in bike racing so just get on with it' whereas yesterday was along the lines of 'FFS, this is proper sh1te!'

Mentally, one hell of a difference and the whole concept of races (and GC) being won in the head and not really on the road seems oh so true.

Hopefully, last year's (from the book) Wiggo turns up shortly on the start of the TT 

Are we about to see the true state of Wiggo's body and mind??? We will know an awful lot more in a few hours - I cannot wait!!!!!


----------



## fozy tornip (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Is Froome sitting at home in a large leather armchair, with an evil glint in his eye, stroking a cat...?


Yeah, and Contador's at home entertaining chums at a barbecue in his back garden, bermuda shorts, Ray Bans, cheesy pistolero gestures to impress the senoritas by the pool, and some interesting steaks sizzling on the griddle...


----------

