# feeling crap for no reason why?



## willhub (2 Jun 2009)

Hi.

Well thats basically what happened, today on a ride I was feeling crap for no reason, I only did 65 miles, did some climbs in macclesfield forest, went through this valley that led me to the A54 where I had to climb this steepish hill, I was struggling to keep over 10mph, was doing about 8 most of the time, usually I can do 12mph on that hill, went on the alderly edge, did swiss hill, then was kinda flat and steady 18-20mph on the way back.

I'm really surprised at the fact my legs are aching, I feel so tired too, all together I've done around 75 miles today, and I feel about as bad as I felt when I got back the weekend before last from a 128 mile ride that was half hilly half flat, 60 miles of which where into the peaks. 

On Friday I did 80 miles very hilly, it was hill after hill, I felt pretty knackered when I got home, but I recovered by the end of saturday and on Sunday did a club run with the wheelers, that was 92 miles hilly, snake pass, holme firth, and like a load of other steep climbs, and I did really good, I was powering up some hills, I was towing a few riders up snake pass into the headwind keeping an average pace of aorund 9-10mph.

All 3 of those rides where harder than today, so I'm really confused why I feel so rubbish after it? between friday and now I've had a rest day in between the rides so what could be the problem?

I'm planning another pretty hilly ride on saturday, probably harder than today by quite abit but I want to make sure I am in the best possible state, some days I just have that feeling like I'm ready to go and got loads of energy, I did not have that this morning but I thought nothing of it really? It was apparently when I got to the first part of it going up hill near bollington that I was really underperforming.

Thanks
Will.


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## montage (2 Jun 2009)

Dehydration is my bet.

Fookin hot today it was


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## willhub (2 Jun 2009)

I kept drinking though, well through the whole ride I had 1 750ml bottle and a smaller 500ml bottle, but through the bulk of the ride, the hilly part I was taking regular swigs. 

It was indeed hot but it felt hotter on Friday I thought. Got home about 4 filled a jug with juice and froze it and had a freezing cold shower.


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## MrRidley (2 Jun 2009)

Somedays you just get like that, it happens to everyone, i done the worst 12 miles today feeling exactly the same.


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## longers (2 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> *All 3 of those rides where harder than today,* so I'm really confused why I feel so rubbish after it? between friday and now I've had a rest day in between the rides so what could be the problem?



Them's decent rides on hot days, could take more than one rest day to recover.


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## willhub (2 Jun 2009)

Maybe, I'm just thinking back to last year thought when I was at York College, 10 miles commute, 10-15 miles commute back, 4 days a week, even weekend a minimum of 80 miles on a club ride, then I started doing sunday runs, they where around 100 miles minimum, usually around 120-140 miles. 

I could never do that now, although on the rides I do I am faster, maybe the peak district is harder than the north york moors and the Yorkshire dales? I do notice I find it harder to do longer miles in the Manchester area. 

I'll take tomoz off cycling, same for Thursday and Friday and stuff my face with food, see what happenes


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## yello (2 Jun 2009)

longers said:


> Them's decent rides on hot days, could take more than one rest day to recover.



I'd go for that too. Sounds like a bit of 'over training' to me and you're a bit run down. Have an early night and a day off too, no point coming down with something; your immune system will be low and you're vulnerable when run down.


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## jimboalee (2 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> I'll take tomoz off cycling, same for Thursday and Friday and stuff my face with food, see what happenes



The food will immediately turn to fat.


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## willhub (2 Jun 2009)

So what should I do?

I eat beans, soup, rice, pasta etc...


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jun 2009)

longers said:


> Them's decent rides on hot days, could take more than one rest day to recover.


+1 and wot Yellow said.

Heat in particular can be really draining. After my first 100 miler (just over 6 hours) in pretty warm conditions it took my aged body over a week to recover fully. Rest is training too.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> So what should I do?
> 
> I eat beans, soup, rice, pasta etc...


A regular balanced diet will be fine, but pasta and beans are better than rice from a GI point of view. Don;'t go mad otherwise as Jimbo says you'll end up a porker and have a lot of ballast energy reserves to haul around like me!


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## willhub (7 Jun 2009)

Well the feeling crap for no reason is getting worse. Since the ride in the first post all I did was 15 miles round trip to oldham and commuting to college, yesterday when it was peeing it down big time I cycled 29 miles to leyland for bike fit and about 30ish back via belmont, I felt total crap, I was really struggling and today my legs are aching, was not even that much climbing!!! 

Going down hill here with no explanation :, worst thing is I've got a 40-60 mile ride to lead, yesterday when I felt okish I agreed to do it, too late now have to, feel like crap like I have a hangover and legs feel like I did 200 miles yesterday


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## Blonde (7 Jun 2009)

Could be any of the following reasons: You're doing too much on the bike, you're doing too much in other areas of life, you're not getting enough sleep, it's too much alcohol, it's your your age (if you are teen to 25 or over 60 you actually do need more sleep than those in between those ages), you're not eating enough protein, or not eating enough in general, you have a virus, you are under stress at home, at work/college (Are you in the middle of exams?) or are placing too much stress on yourself in your sport, you're experiencing hormonal changes, or it's just due to the weather - especially low pressure, which can give you headaches and make you feel tired and lethargic...... take you pick. Just don't worry about it too much, have some time off the bike, get plenty of rest and eat well. You won't put any weight on in a week! You need to eat well; plenty of vegetables and fruit as well as good quality protein. The low quality flours used in most wheat based products, such as dried pasta, don't have a lot of nutritional value and are also usually full of additives used to preserve the product, so having a more varied carbs source is going to give you better nutrition; perhaps try barley, brown rice, whole oats or oatmeal with the bran still in (you can buy oat bran separately to add back to non-whole oats), quinoa, millet and maize. I really like polenta and cornbread and pearl barley is really nice in soups and stews although not as good nutritionally as the un-polished grain. If you're worried about the longer cooking times, you can always cook it the day before then freeze into individual portions or keep in the fridge till next day.... even rice is fine re-heated in the microwave as long as it is really piping hot before you eat it. Also, you just can't eat too many vegetables!


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## Blonde (7 Jun 2009)

Re-reading you last post it occurred to me that you aren't doing enormous mileage but that you do seem to be riding more or less every day. I'm afraid that this will leave you feeling a bit worn down. I commute 26 miles a day to/from work in Manchester and it does take it's toll if I do that for five days as well as doing a Wednesday night track session and a 100 miler at the weekend. You do need a day off at least once or twice a week, particularly if you are working or at college etc - you're not cycling professionally, so you still have to do other things on top of the cycling, which will take it's toll. Even the pros have rest days and they don't have other jobs to do as well! Google "over training". Peak Performance on line has quite a bit of info on it. It's about being heart-tired and about hormone imbalances, sleep problems and depression, as well as fatigue in your cycling muscles. You really don't want to end up like that.


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## willhub (7 Jun 2009)

Well I did 65 miles chaingang today, average 20mph all way around, slow really thats cause of faffing about.

I aim to do at least one long ride a week, I'm going to lay off the hills for the moment, do some flats and thats about it. I commute 3 times a week, it's only like 3 miles there and 3 miles back. so 18 miles a week commuting, I used to do 22 miles a day 4 times a week, weird really as I never felt crap from doing riding every day but now I do. 

I like wholemeal rice but apparently it's bad eating it often. 

I'm a crap sleeper, I need around 9 hours of sleep, any lower and I'm usually tired, anything higher and I usually feel crap with headaches and everything.

Last week I did 247 miles, when I first started cycling last year, a month into it I was doing 100+ mile rides at the weekend and about 900-1200 miles a month.


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## Blonde (8 Jun 2009)

Ah that might be yer answer then - sleep deprivation or lack of sufficient rest will get you every time. It makes your body ache, quite apart from any mental fatigue or low mood and irritability. Dehydration at night might be the problem if you sleep more than 9 hours - I can't think of any other reason you'd get a heachache after sleeping. 

You could try a 20 minute to hour long nap in t'afternoon to make up those sleep-hours if needed. I love an afternoon nap on Saturdays. I have been known to nap for half an hour to an hour in the evening, on getting in from work as well, before I make tea, go out etc. Makes a big difference to energy levels that evening and really helps if you are going to be out late that night. My Wednesday track sessions don't finish till 10pm, so I don't get home again afterwards until after 11pm, then have to eat somerthing, having not had any tea (unless you count muesli which is all I can manage before the session). I get to bed about 11:30-midnight then have to get up again at about 6am, to cycle to work, which is all pretty tiring, so, on Wednesdays after work I often have a lie down for half an hour to an hour (even if I don't actually go to sleep) before I get up and go back out again. It really helps. 

BTW, I too do about 200-250 miles a week (as I have done for several years) but these days I do a bit more commuitng and track work and a bit less at weekends, so the overal load is more evenly spread over the week, which I find is easier/faster to recoever from, than doing just one or two ultra-long rides a week. Long rides really do take it out of you and take a long time to recover from. I used to do long audax events and ended up going slower and slower and feeling shattered all the time, so I have a fair idea about this. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do them, just that you should allow proper recovery time afterwards. This may mean not cycling at all for several days or even a week after a long ride. I now don't usually ride to work on the Monday if I have done a`100+ miler the day before. I don't ride if I feel tired. I also take the odd weekend off, perhaps every couple of months and do not go out on the bike, to give me a chance to get a lie-in and get some recovery time. This rest also makes a big difference to your speed (if you care about such things) . You'll almost certainly find you are much faster after a proper rest which is a sign that you have recovered. I can hugely reccommend scheduling the odd weekend off and just sitting about reading the weekend papers in the garden (or something)! You won't lose any fitness either - quite the opposite, you'll be refreshed; faster, stronger and more mentally motivated when you get back on the bike.


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## yello (8 Jun 2009)

You speak a lot of sense there Blonde. So much of what you say is applicable to the situation I found myself in not too many weeks ago. I was trying to do too much too often and had to back off a bit. Not so much a case of 'less is more' but of recognising the benefits of lesser but consistent, regular, steady miles... and rest. The body is a bit of a machine and does like routine - hammering it with periodic big rides was not the way forward!


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## willhub (8 Jun 2009)

I find short naps kill me, I wake up drained of energy and sometimes aching from an afternoon nap and just want to lay there on the bed forever.

My body is kind of odd it's swings of round abouts and I feel I'm never going to learn how to best go around keeping it happy, so yesterday, my legs where aching and I was shattered, you'd have thought doing a chaingang was a real bad idea, I was just going to the meeting place to try see if anyone had a route for the ride I as doing, no one turned up and I got roped into the chaingang which I loved, and today my legs are not aching and I feel I want to go for a ride, don't think I am going to though.


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## Blonde (8 Jun 2009)

Doh! I'm no expert, but from own experience this does sound familiar and like it could well be a bit of over training to me. Feeling lethargic and tired could be more of a mental thing rather than physical - but again, it could be a sign of overtraining, or of stress overload/mind elsewhere engaged. Take it easier for a bit.


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## zacklaws (8 Jun 2009)

Lack of sleep maybe a cause. The same happened to me on Friday. I've not been out for just over a week due to family commitments and have been finding it hard to sleep and forced myself out of bed on friday morning. Found the ride very hard and at one point become aware that I was not totally there, all my senses and awareness had gone and I was all over the road feeling very light headed and giddy. Fluids I had plenty so ruled that out.

Anyway for love or money I could not get my self motivated to ride again all weekend as I just felt physically sick and mentally disturbed to the effect of giving up cycling all together.

Anyway feel a bit better now and hopefully after work I plan on a quick 20 before dark


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## willhub (8 Jun 2009)

Thanks all, I'll try taking it easy, I might go for a short 45ish mile ride tomoz if I feel ok and then on thursday have a chaingang, thats all I'll do untill sunday.

I just had a nap, could not resist, I woke up, I felt soooo tired, I felt weak and my legs felt uber crap and sort of odd stingy mild pains or something going through them, I wish I felt better after a nap!!


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## dodgy (8 Jun 2009)

Some of your symptoms aren't readily explainable by simply being tired, the stingy pains you're talking about especially.

Might be worth discussing with a doctor, that's what I'd be doing anyway. I hope it's nothing more serious than tiredeness, and it probably is just that but you never know.


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## willhub (8 Jun 2009)

I'll just live with the weirdness from waking up after a nap I think, cant be going to the doctors about that they'll think I'm a weirdo I've being enough already!!


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## Blonde (9 Jun 2009)

I agree that if you are *at all* worried that you might actually be ill, go see the GP. Must admit that mine was useless and couldn't help with an 18 month spell of stress/overtaining related illness I had, so eventually went private, but it might be a good place to start. The tiredness could be down to something fairly benign such as a vitamin or mineral deficiency (which will still need treating) but we used to tease a mate for being a lazy so and so, till he/we discovered the reason he was always sleeping was actually 'cos he had Leukemia, so don't put off seeing the GP if you think you might be ill. 
How old are you btw?


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## willhub (9 Jun 2009)

I am 19.


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## Blonde (9 Jun 2009)

Aw, so young! Have you been cycling long? I just wonder, 'cos the old audax guys I used to do a lot of riding with probably didn't need as much rest and post ride recovery as I did, because most of them had been doing long audax rides for 20 years and some for 40+ years, so their bodies were really well were adapted to long rides. If you've only been cycling a few weeks or a few months, it's to be expected that you will need longer to recover between rides than someone who has been cycling for longer. Adaptation to exercise is why people who have been cycling many years and then take a significant amount of time off, say, 6-10 weeks off after breaking a bone, can regain their fitness a lot quicker than those who had only been cycling a few weeks or months before they took time off from cycling. (Adaptation also explains the reason for the plateu effect, people complain of, where, for instance they find they can't lose any more weight, or can't get any faster etc. unless they change their training). You can speed up the process of adaptation by following a specific training programme, and doing what is known as "over-reaching" (rather than over training) but such a programme will still need to ensure adequate rest periods, to prevent over training. If you are in a road club, talk to a coach, or to some of the more experienced guys (particularly anyone who raced/rode a lot when they were under 20), or contact British Cycling for advice. If you have a college sports facility, ask for advice from the coaches there.

You should still go to your GP if you are worried about your health!


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## willhub (9 Jun 2009)

I started commuting to college in october 07, 10 miles there 15 back, feb 08 I got my first road bike, started commuting to college on it, 10 ther 15 back, april I joined a club, first club run was 72 miles, within about a month of that I started doing sunday club runs, my first one was 117 miles, then regular like every sunday I was doing over 100 mile club run, one of which was 160 miles and I've done 3 Audaxes, 1 was 146 miles long, other 150 very hilly.

Then I did not need much recovery but since september last year I've found that has changed, september is also the time I moved to Manchester, so it happened at the same time. 

couple of weeks ago I did 128 miles and quite a while before that I did 128 miles back at home, average liked 18mph and it went into the yorkshire dales.

Did 71 miles today hilly, after 65 miles I'm getting slower allthough I still manage to do chaingangs fine.

I think I might try and take one week off again see if it restores me back to full potential, got a 60odd mile chaingang on thursday and 80 mile hilly on sunday.


Yea that sounds similar to me, I cant get any faster really and I cant loose anymore weight, not that I want to loose more weight though.


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## Blonde (10 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> Tsince september last year I've found that has changed, *september is also the time I moved to Manchester*, so it happened at the same time.
> 
> couple of weeks ago I did 128 miles and quite a while before that I did 128 miles back at home, average liked 18mph and it went into the yorkshire dales.
> 
> ...



Getting slower and slower is defntely a sign that something is wrong. The fact that it started when you moved house is significant. Stress affects the amount of adrenaline as well as other hormones that your endocrine system produces. High stress hormone levels can lead to a build up of unpleasant chemicals such as ethanol (in your liver) which will defintely make you feel sluggish and tired. Don't underestimate the effects of stress - it can cause physical illness! Rest, tailored relaxation teachniques and good diet (to give your body the best chance of recovery) are a good idea. Go to the GP as well, to rule out anything else. Bear in mind that if you are actually over trained a period of a few days to a week of rest may not initially make any difference, as you may have already gone past the point where a day or week off will combat the accumulated fatigue. I'm afraid that if you are over trained or suffering stress related illness it might take significantly longer than a week to recover. It took me about two years to fully recover (through a significant diet change, dietary supplements, reduced exercise level and still struggling with fatigue, aching joints and low immunity etc) but I was ill for 18 months prior to starting to recover, but I guess nipping it in the bud early and will decrease recovery time if you are overtrained. You might not be over trained though. It's best to try and get some kind of diagnosis and/or rule out any other illness first.


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## willhub (10 Jun 2009)

I think my diet might be part of it, all I tend to eat is rice. pasta, egg, bread, porridge, soup.

I try to eat cheaply really. 

I might not do any cycling until Sunday now and just rest, the thing I dont like about not cycling is the body starts to build up fat then does it not?

I dont think I'm getting slower and slower actually, just up and down at the moment, just I cant get any faster really, on hilly rides of any length when I'm on my own my average speed is usually around 16.5mph all the time.

I know my body works better when in a routine which I'm not in at the moment, I might have to make another thread asking for help to make some sort of routine for my cycling based around training rides, flat, hilly and chaingangs/ TT's.


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## Blonde (10 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> I might not do any cycling until Sunday now and just rest, the thing I dont like about not cycling is the body starts to build up fat then does it not?



Only if you eat more KCals than you expend! You won't see any weight gain in a week unless you're on some kind of eat-till-it-comes-out-of-your-ears binge!

I actually lost weight (well, body shape changed, and went down 2 clothing sizes) when I cut down my mileage, and it's stayed that way, so I guess my simultaneously changed diet was the main reason. I eat fewer carbs and more protein than previously as well as more vegetables. I ate a lot of cheap pasta and beans on white toast a few years ago too, mostly due to low income and debt problems, but my lifestyle has changed somewhat in recent years, which has really improved my health. I do sympathise with that 'cos I've been there myself. 

Many people can _survive_ on a relatively restricted diet, but it can make things harder if you are an active person as well. I'd suggest that eating as much variety as possible would help make sure the diet contains everything you need. Having a freezer helps add variety, so you're not stuck eating the same things all week in order to get through 'em before they go off. If you can get to a market, use that rather than a supermarket as the food is usally fresher and cheaper than anywhere else. Also, If you don't already, you could try to bulk buy food if possible. We go to Bolton Market where they sell boxes of veg and often have 4 aubergines for £1, 10 organges for £1, a tray of 4 rainbow trout for £5 etc, etc, so it's often cheaper to buy larger quantities. Not usually doable if you live alone, but you could arrange to divvy up any bulk buys between friends and share the cost so that you can all get a bargain. Also if you bulk buy veg or meat you can just cook it all straight away, (i.e. in a huge vat of curry or something) then freeze it in portions. That way you'll save money and won't ever have to throw out any food that's gone off.


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## willhub (10 Jun 2009)

I went to Aldi today and got some pasta sauces, 6 apples (one a day), some muesli, bacon, sausages, salami, mushrooms, bag of potatoes, basmati rice, loaf of bread with seeds and other things in, some meat sort of like burgers, milk, gravy, pasta in a bag with sauce. 

I'd like to bulk buy but I'd not be able to get it home on my bike or carry it on the bus so not possible really.

I'd day I don't eat unhealthily but as you can probably see from what I have posted It's a pretty high carb diet. 

I'd have thought a high protein diet would be pretty expensive compared to high carb since it's easy to get lots of carbs.


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## jayce (10 Jun 2009)

I went out yesterday only done 40 miles and it killed me,dont know why, i do that quite easily ,i felt like sh*t all night ,now i got a pain in my ear ,so i think i got a ear infection, could this be the problem ,off up the docs in morn


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## Blonde (11 Jun 2009)

willhub said:


> I'd like to bulk buy but I'd not be able to get it home on my bike or carry it on the bus so not possible really.
> I'd day I don't eat unhealthily but as you can probably see from what I have posted It's a pretty high carb diet. I'd have thought a high protein diet would be pretty expensive compared to high carb since it's easy to get lots of carbs.



It is expensive (relatively), although as I say we are lucky to be able to market shop and get bargains that way. I sympathise with the transporting flood thing. I used to either walk or shop by bike (as I had no car) but it was pretty hard and I never liked leaving my bike in Morrisson's car park. Loading up two full panniers onto it was difficult - it tended to tip the bike over as there was no-where to lean it against to each week I did some kind of bike/bag wrestling to get it all home... Luckilly the shop was only about a mile from where I lived, though I cycled back home at about 8mph - all I could manage up the steep hill with two loaded panniers on! You are limited in what you can get though, if you basically use only one shop.

Your diet doesn't sound dreadfuil, just a bit limited and possibly lacking in vegetables. Pasta is a cheap fller with little nutritional content that's the problem. It's fine if you eat plenty of other stuff too, but if you are relying on wheat based products generally, and not eating a great deal else, the flours used just don't contain much in the way of vitamins or minerals. The quality of the protein you eat is pretty important too. Sausages and salami generally are rather high fat rather than high protein, so, unless you're allergic, eggs might be a better choice and are reasonably cheap. Omlettes are a great way to eat planty of veg too, in fact you can basically srtir fry your veg then add a couple of beaten eggs to stick the veg together, so it's more of a veg fritter than anything else. Veg stir-frys topped with a hard boiled egg or two (intead of tofu) work quite well. You don't have to use expensive veg for stir frys either, white, and red cabbage, greens, carrots and onions all work fine and are cheap ingredients. If you have any Asian or Continental shops nearby (large bags of spices etc and literally 4 to 10 times cheaper than supermarkets) use them for your garlic, soy sauce and some ground spices like ground star anise/anissed and ginger which add interest to stir frys. The colour of food is a clue about the nutritional content. Check out what's in green foods, red foods, orange foods, blue/purple foods etc. A good way to think of it is, the more variety of colour on your plate, the better the variety of vitamins and minerals you are getting on it.

Oily fish such as mackrel, herring and sardines are also fairly cheap (and reasonably plentiful, should you care about that). They're really good sources of protein, and are for sale on most supermarket fish counters. I pay about 80p for four large sardines (enough for one meal) at the market but it may be a bit more than that at a supermarket. It can be anything from 87p to £1.60 for a whole mackrel, depending on weight, but with a large one you can always ask the fishmonger to fillet it and cook/eat over two nights. Dead easy to cook - just fry sardines (a tiny smear of oil is all that is needed as they are oily anyway) or grill. Bung mackrel or herring in oven (in tin covered with foil, or indeed, just wrapped in foil) add a squeeze of lemon/orange juice or juice from a carton over the fish if liked, or you can cover the fish with milk (and add parsley if liked), if you prefer a less "fishy" taste. 20 minutes at around 190 oC for large whole mackrel, less if filleted or smaller.

Sorry to go on, I just love food though! I have learned the hard way that diet is crucial when you're an active person. I used to eat a lot of pasta with a homemade sauce (but still bascially tinned tomotatoes and not much else) and thought this was healthy. Whilst this may work for fairly sedentary folk, it just isn't enough when you are doing any serious training or long mileage and possibly in your case still growing! I grew a whole inch whilst I was at university so it's definitely possible. Hope you can work something out.


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## willhub (11 Jun 2009)

Do eggs actually contain much protein? Would I be getting plenty of protein eating 1 or 2 eggs a day? 

I've bought some apples to eat one a day so I'm trying to be healthy. I've never really ventured into buying meat apart from sausages, I might have a go at fish some time.

Are tinned veg useless? I have quite allot of that , don't know what to do with it, I've got an unopened can of chicken gravy.


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## Blonde (12 Jun 2009)

Hmm, tinned veg are OK but it will depend on the quality:
http://www.healthscout.com/ency/1/002095.html

They do tend to lose Vitamin C content in the canning process though. They are also rather salty but will be OK if well washed before use. Sweetcorn often has has sugar added ('cos Tate and Lyle have a deal with most of the food industry menufacturers) so rinse your tinned veg well before using. I must say that canned veg in general, with the notable exceptions of beans and pulses tastes a bit rubbish and often has an odd texture, so if you actually want to enjoy vegetables, I'd really reccommend getting the real thing just from a taste point of view! If you need to use up your stocks of tinned veg, perhaps put them all into a bolognase or chilli type dish. I do use cans of tomatoes for making moussaka and lasagne, chick peas for adding to curries and for making hummus with, as well as buying canned kidney beans, broad beans and butter beans for salads but I just admit that I haven't actually opened one tin of anything for about three months as there is so much wonderful produce on Bolton Market every week that we end up eating just fresh things instead. If you shop at Aldi they are a bit limited for variety of fresh stuff but what's there is decent and they usually have good deals on fruti 'n' veg, like 49p for punnets of soft fruit and their 69p offers on pineapples and butternut squash etc. What's on offer varies from week to week so just get whatever is going cheap that week and find out how to make something with it. The internet has millions of recipes if you're unsure how to cook something, so you really can't go wrong! Most veg cooks really quickly so if you dont want to spend ages in the kitchen just do simple quick meals like stir frys (literally a few minutes to cook). Cabbage is much maligned. Red cabbage in particular is really nice "slow" cooked (chop and leave in frying pan on very low heat with a little butter and a few drops of water fo about 15 minutes just stir every so ofetn so it doesn burn or stick. Perhaps add a few drops of red wine vinegar towards the end and also some ground cinnamon if liked (Aldi sell white white, red wine and balsamic vinegars for a quid). I never boil vegetables as that ruins the taste and texture in my opinion, as well as risking destroying the nutritional content if they end up over-cooked.

RE: Protein content of Eggs: 
http://www.enc-online.org/factsheet/EggProtein.pdf
http://www.nutritionandeggs.co.uk/eggs_nutrition/nutrition1.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/egg.html
Basically it depends on egg size, but yep, they are good for you, especially for muscle repair and recovery.

Also yogurt is excllent stuff, and v cheap - about 69p for 500g of low fat live plain yogurt. Use in salad dressings (along with the olive oil, lemon juice, whole grain mustard and honey or any combination therefof), piut a doolop on choped fruit or fruit salad, or just eat (with honey if you liek it sweet). You can use it in curries or even just drink as an Indian Lassi drink - just add water till it reaches a drinkable consistency (and add honey to taste if you like it sweet). You can add other flavourings to Lassi drinks, such as crushed cardomom seeds and chopped pistachio nuts nuts but of course that would add to the cost.
http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/foodc/_protein_milk_cheese_yogurt.html
http://www.stonyfield.com/Wellness/Protein.cfm

Again, amount of protein per 100g varies depending on type of yogurt. Just read the nutritional info labels when you buy it. Actually the medium to high fat yogurt (such as Greek yogurt) does tend to contain slightly more protein, as does the medium to higher fat milk. 

Nutrition and protein for sporting people: 
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/spo...round-ensure-optimal-sports-performance-41005
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/weight-loss-can-you-lose-weight-effectively-protein-diet-40884

List of more general articles on sports nutrition: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/nutrition.htm
...and on cycling: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/cycling.htm


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

eggs have the best form of digestable protein there is for the body. man can't make a better digestable protein. apples are great to lose fat. i eat 3 a day.

it probably overtraining, lack of the right stuff inside you and not enough time to recover, if body short of essentials it wont recover properly and you only realise during next exercise when body tested. doing hard exercise such as cycling uses up alot more essential nutrients. so you need to take more. as you get older body body absorbs less nutrients.

few suggestions. eat regular and lighter meals. dont go long hours without eating anything. increase your vitamins and minerals especially magnesium and zinc which play a major role. increase the b-vitamin family. dont eat veg in cans strictly eat fresh,frozen fruit and veg. eat more protein it will increase essential amino acids and eat the good fats for the body to function right. dried beans and pulses are a great source of protein, fibre, vitamins and minerals. they not a complete protein so eat some veg and meat too like chicken and salmon.

take the amino acid l-glutamine it helps to recover your muscles alot faster. ideally take carbs with protein it will help the uptake of the amino acids. make sure you getting decent sleep and stay away from crap sugar. bodys immune system is weakened alot when you do exercise so take some antioxidants like vitamin c.

recommend to eat oats. snack on sunflower, pumpkin and sesame seeds and increase water intake. great meal for complex carbs is brown rice and peas.

just give the body what it really wants and it will thank you. it can't perform on empty calories(crap food).

one last important thing. eat plenty of carbs regularly during cycling. there is a small window of oppurtunity to replace glycogen to the screaming muscles after exercise. this will recover you faster. so eat a meal of high carbs and protein as soon as possible after the cycling ideally 30-60 mins.


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## Blonde (18 Jun 2009)

You're right there. I am amazed how many people don't seem to realise the full extent of how what you eat effects your mood, behaviour and blood sugar levels, as well as your general health. There are all sorts of studies about the effacts of foods; how kids concentrate better at school after having breakfast, how diet effects children's brain development and behaviour, how oily fish intake can help combat depression etc. 

The quality and type of fuel makes a difference to the engine. Would you put diesel in a F1 car? (Actually that's probably not a good analogy as the fuel used is similar to commercial fuels/petrol, but you get the general idea...)


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## gekko (22 Jun 2009)

There are a number of things that could be going on here. I'm no expert but a couple of things spring to mind.

1. You may actually have some illness. I get the feeling you are trying to discount this but it is a possibility and I do think it's worth a trip to the docs. You are 19 and at an age where glandular fever is not uncommon. I had a virus (similar to glandular fever) in my early twenties and my symptoms were not dissimilar to yours. I felt not quite right for months afterwards. Having said that, these symptoms are quite generic and could indicate lots of things. Related to that, you may have mild depression but you'll no doubt know if that's likely to be the case. For a case of the blues or more mild depression, I've found that taking St. John's Wort helps quite significantly.

2. A few things jumped out at me about your diet. You are eating a lot of processed meat (sausages, bacon, salami) and very little fresh meat. I realise you need to eat cheaply but you would be better off foregoing the bacon etc. and incorporating some chicken into your diet. Also, you really need to eat fish. Even if you don't eat any meat, you need oily fish for the amount of exercise you are doing. Fish is good for the joints and the brain, which as a cyclist and college student are essential. Eat lots of mackerel, which can be bought cheaply and eat salmon too. Next up - vegetables. As someone else on here said, don't boil them as all the goodness goes into the water and very little is retained in the vegetable. This makes canned veg pretty rubbish I'm afraid. Try to steam or roast all your veg and buy fresh. Forget the supermarket - get yourself down the market later in the day when they are flogging off the veg. You'll get it cheaper than canned veg and it'll be so much better for you. 

You also need more fruit, more than an apple a day. Try to eat a banana every day too and berries. Berries of course can be expensive but blueberries are superfoods and worth investing in. You can buy frozen berries from the supermarket (check the label to ensure they haven't got added sugar etc.) and use them in smoothies - half a banana, handful of frozen berries, scoop of frozen yoghurt and some orange juice (not from concentrate). Bang these in a blender (a good investment for juices and soups) for 30 secs and you've got a delicious smoothie.

It sounds like you are doing pretty well on the grains and if you aren't already, get some beans in there (aduki, flagelot etc.). Buy these dried in bulk as it's cheaper this way and soak overnight. You have to be organised but you'll save yourself a fortune.

Another bit of advice about preparing food, buy yourself a slow cooker. They are cheap (about £35), you can throw everything in it in the morning and the best part is that all the moisture is contained within the cooker and so you don't lose any of the goodness. Because the food is slow cooked, you can buy cheaper cuts of lamb and beef and they will taste great. Throw in dried beans or pasta to bulk out the casserole and any veg you have in the house (it's a great way to use up veg you don't know what to do with). For sauces, use beef stock, veg stock or tinned tomatoes. Flavour with chilli, tabasco, worcestershire sauce, basil, garlic whatever you have lying around. Make enough so you can take it to college the next day or freeze for later in the month etc. Believe me, this is such an economical way to cook and you'll be getting all the nutrition you need.

I do hope you manage to sort this out as I know how it feels to be tired all the time and feel low. Feed your body some good stuff though and I'm sure it will repay you the favour!


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## ajb (24 Jun 2009)

As said above by Gekko, get checked by the Dr.

My son is 18, last September he began to feel unwell, being the sportsman he is he kept "doing his thing" training hard (he is a racing cyclist)
To cut a long story short he saw the Dr on 3 ocassions between October & Xmas, had blood tests etc & all came back negative, they put it all down to a change of lifestyle,(starting Uni, looking after himself) I didn't agree with this.
Then in January, back at Uni, a couple of his friends went to see him at about 10pm, he apparently "looked awfull" 10.30pm he was in hospital. More tests and 2 months later they said it was Glandular fever, made worse because he kept pushing himself, After total rest for 6 months he is now back on the bike.

What I'm saying is, listen to your body, nobody knows it like you do, If you dont agree with the Dr see another one.

Take care, Alan.


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## Blonde (26 Jun 2009)

Agree with above, except to say that I _did _go to the Docs with my yellow skin, low immune health (12 viruses a year) stomach pain/diorhoea, aching limbs and joints, and severe fatigue that did not go away with rest, not even after 15 hours sleep etc, but the initial blood tests found nothing. Well, actually they simply lost my liver function test, so I'll never know the result of that one, but the fact that I visibly had a jaundiced appearance despite not drinking any alcohol may have been significant. My illness seemed to have been caused by excessive stress (over several years) and overtraining, coupled with a poor diet. After the initial period of illness which lasted about 18 months before I got a diagnosis, it then took another 2 years to fully recover (inlcuding supplements, carefully monitoring training and symptoms and following a special diet which included avoiding all sugars and particuarly yeasted products such as bread as this seemed to be a major cause of my stomach problems) . Don't let this happen to you. Try your GP first of course, but if the GP is of no help, apart from to tell you you've got "Post viral fatigue syndrome" which doesn't really mean anything, you may have to start looking at other options, which unfortunately, usually cost money. I must admit that my health only really improved when my financial situation (and diet) changed for the better due to getting a better paid job. Previously I coudn't have afforded to take any tests to find out the cause of the stomach problems but after I paid for the test and started to change my diet I began to get better.


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## MessenJah (28 Jun 2009)

It could just be life. Sometimes you will feel crap no matter how healthy you are.


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## Helly79 (28 Jun 2009)

http://blog.cyclekrazy.com/2009/06/facts-about-fatigue-and-recovery/

I found this to be a good site, but I do recommend that you get it check out as my hubby had the same problems and now has M.E.


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