# Rider Safety - time to act?



## Flying_Monkey (8 Apr 2015)

There has been a lot of talk about riding in terrible weather conditions recently, but a serious incident in the finishing straight of today's stage of the Tour of the Basque Country has raised further questions. Sergio Pardilla (head injuries and possible punctured lung) Peter Stetina (knee and leg fractures) Nicolas Edet (ditto) and Adam Yates (hand and arm fractures) taken to hospital and several others with more minor injuries after hitting a series of metal poles in the road that were only marked with a traffic cone stuck on top. There seems to have been no serious consideration of how fast riders would be going at the finish and the impossibility of seeing and avoiding these poles. 

Is it about time to think more seriously about rider safety in a range of areas, what needs to be done and how are things going to change?


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## Shaun (8 Apr 2015)

Is this all that they did to the poles? No barriers around them? No marshals to ensure the riders don't get anywhere near them?







It beggers belief how they could have thought that this would be enough to keep the riders safe and out of the way of the poles.


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## raindog (8 Apr 2015)

Shameful.
And now I won't get to see how Adam Yates would've done this week.


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## MisterStan (8 Apr 2015)

Surely they could have put barriers up - making the road and finish a bit tighter but a hell of a lot safer.


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## psmiffy (8 Apr 2015)

I can remember seeing that sort of thing protected by bales wrapped in red and white plastic bags on the TDF - Failure of the organisation at the local level ? - and I would of thought it would of been something that the teams would have highlighted on their recce


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## Dogtrousers (8 Apr 2015)

Reportedly it wasn't even mentioned in the road book. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders-angry-after-high-speed-basque-country-crash
You see better risk assessments on fun rides.


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Apr 2015)

Pretty shabby treatment & ruining peoples seasons.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Apr 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Pretty shabby treatment & ruining peoples seasons.


I'm no expert but these sound like they could even be career threatening
_Pete Stetina (BMC) was diagnosed with fractures to his tibia, kneecap and four ribs. 
Sergio Pardilla (Caja Rural) suffered a head trauma, haemoptysis (coughing up blood), a fractured shoulder and a fractured left wrist._


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## oldroadman (8 Apr 2015)

In most countries teams would be reaching for their lawyers. This is so bad, a simple barrier line would have done the job. The organisers may have planned that, but whoever constructed the finish area have a lot to answer for. Something for the UCI to consider - just hope their commissaire's report is damning.


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## ColinJ (8 Apr 2015)

That is just outrageous. I don't like litigation culture but the injured riders really ought to be suing the organisers for that one!

The local authority should simply have taken out the posts before the race, and replaced them afterwards with something more easily removable for future races.


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## siadwell (8 Apr 2015)

There's video taken from EuroSport coverage in several places including http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-in-tour-of-basque-country-crash-video-165319 and http://road.cc/content/news/147708-video-rider-protest-metal-poles-cause-tour-basque-country-crash.
Looking at this, it's hard to see whether the crowd is held back by barriers at the point where the poles are, or whether they are just keeping off the roadway. I think the latter. Either way, the crashes look horrific.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Apr 2015)

It's not just the obvious kind of idiocy like the Tour of the Basque Country crash, there are races with 'technical' finishes seen by many riders as inherently dangerous with a large peloton - like the Scheldeprijs, which not for the first time saw a serious mass crash during the finale.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/scheldeprijs-finale-marred-by-mass-crash


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## ColinJ (9 Apr 2015)

ColinJ said:


> The local authority should simply have taken out the posts before the race, and replaced them afterwards with something more easily removable for future races.


Our council put bollards and a pedestrian refuge in the middle of the road at the start of the Cragg Vale climb on the run up to the local Tour de France stage but they did have the foresight to make them removable. The same road will be used in the opposite direction for stage 3 of the coming Tour de Yorkshire.

Somebody went along all of our local roads on the TdF route marking and numbering potholes which needed to be sorted out before the race.

Ok, it might not be affordable to fix every hole in every road used in every pro race, but at the very least, an experienced official should check every race route for monstrous dangers like those poles, and have the power to call off the race unless the dangers are dealt with properly. Balancing traffic cones on poles in finishing straights isn't quite the kind of solution required ...


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Apr 2015)

Inner Ring's take here: http://inrng.com/2015/04/rider-safety-bilbao-crash/#more-24362


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## oldroadman (10 Apr 2015)

An interesting article. The UCI can't be responsible for everything that happens at every race. That's simply impossible. this was an appalling mistake by the organisers and they have to confront that. The finishes are built be barrier team who should be under supervision of race administration/organisation. So if the finger points at anyone, it's the organisation for failing to comply with the UCI regs, and whoever was in charge of the finish area build is simply directly responsible. As for having someone standing in front of the poles with a whistle, would you do it? I'm sure I would not ask anyone to stand there when a peloton comes round a bend flat out for the line. That would be almost suicidal. What should have happened was a barrier line (and padding if necessary) should have been installed rider side of the barriers. At least if someone crashed then it's barriers, not great lumps of metal screwed into the road!


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Apr 2015)

The UCI has promised to investigate...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-investigate-basque-tour-crash-stetina-undergoes-surgery


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## psmiffy (11 Apr 2015)

> The investigation will do little to help Stetina recover from his injuries, which included a fractured patella and tibia repaired by the surgery, and four broken ribs that could not be treated.


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## oldroadman (11 Apr 2015)

psmiffy said:


> I can remember seeing that sort of thing protected by bales wrapped in red and white plastic bags on the TDF - Failure of the organisation at the local level ? - and I would of thought it would of been something that the teams would have highlighted on their recce


In a stage race teams don't normally have time or resource for a "recce". You read the road book and generally it's got all the info you need. With a crowded schedule (up to 3 teams and sets of support staff out at any one time, all at different races) time is not available apart from selected classics and crucial stages of the grand tours, plus a few others if time permits. You have to have some trust the organisers do the right thing, and in this case that trust was not fulfilled.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Apr 2015)

Playing "chicken" with TGV isn't very safe


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2015)

Marmion said:


> Playing "chicken" with TGV isn't very safe


That could _easily_ have ended in tears!


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## oldroadman (12 Apr 2015)

Marmion said:


> Playing "chicken" with TGV isn't very safe


Is this about the stupid "lets go round/under the barriers" nonsense that got people DQ'd last year. And then they complained about the commissaires making the proper decision - I believe they got some hefty fines too (have to check UCI regs for that, but it will probably be expensive). Idiots, at least they were lucky enough to be alive to complain! You can't believe how daft some people are.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Is this about the stupid "lets go round/under the barriers" nonsense that got people DQ'd last year. And then they complained about the commissaires making the proper decision - I believe they got some hefty fines too (have to check UCI regs for that, but it will probably be expensive). Idiots, at least they were lucky enough to be alive to complain! You can't believe how daft some people are.


It's about them doing it again at Paris-Roubaix this afternoon!


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## oldroadman (12 Apr 2015)

ColinJ said:


> It's about them doing it again at Paris-Roubaix this afternoon!


Just seen this on a recording (I missed the early part). Absolutely crazy, rider v. TGV, no contest. Commissaires with some courage should have used the DQ (provided they knew the correct numbers). I wonder what the gendarme was thinking as he tried to keep the riders safe. The rule says you must not pass a closed barrier. It's quite clear. Maybe it should be re-written to say no passing a flashing warning light at a level crossing. I just hope the UCI rule makers see this and have a look at the rule, and also have some serious words with the commissaires.


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## Arrowfoot (12 Apr 2015)

oldroadman said:


> An interesting article. The UCI can't be responsible for everything that happens at every race. That's simply impossible. this was an appalling mistake by the organisers and they have to confront that. The finishes are built be barrier team who should be under supervision of race administration/organisation. So if the finger points at anyone, it's the organisation for failing to comply with the UCI regs, and whoever was in charge of the finish area build is simply directly responsible. As for having someone standing in front of the poles with a whistle, would you do it? I'm sure I would not ask anyone to stand there when a peloton comes round a bend flat out for the line. That would be almost suicidal. What should have happened was a barrier line (and padding if necessary) should have been installed rider side of the barriers. At least if someone crashed then it's barriers, not great lumps of metal screwed into the road!



All the main Sporting Bodies from FIFA, FINA , IAAF etc all have their own inspectors on site to ensure that any setup passes the required standards. How else would you uphold standards in your sport. I always assumed that UCI follows the international practice that other Sporting Bodies follow. Even Cricket is the same.

I do recall a World Junior Marathon in Perth where the course was short by 10 Kms or so (can't recall exactly) but mistakes like this do occur and that is why you need a second party with expertise for oversight and final approval. Ever heard of Squash Courts flooring laid horizontally rather than vertically.

Thank god no one was killed.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2015)

oldroadman said:


> Just seen this on a recording (I missed the early part). Absolutely crazy, rider v. TGV, no contest. Commissaires with some courage should have used the DQ (provided they knew the correct numbers). I wonder what the gendarme was thinking as he tried to keep the riders safe. The rule says you must not pass a closed barrier. It's quite clear. Maybe it should be re-written to say no passing a flashing warning light at a level crossing. I just hope the UCI rule makers see this and have a look at the rule, and also have some serious words with the commissaires.


I felt horribly apprehensive that we were about to get a bird's eye view of a bunch of pro cyclists killed by a train!

I too think that it should be a rule which is ruthlessly enforced, if necessary using the TV pictures for evidence. In the heat of the race, riders seem willing to take the chance. If they know that they will definitely be kicked off the race, then that should give them pause for thought.


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## The Couch (13 Apr 2015)

I was thinking that because just about the whole peloton crossed, the organizers wouldn't take anyone out.
(otherwise you're left with the front group and a bunch of 25ish riders that didn't weren't able to cross... and which organizer wants Rast or Saramotins as winner?)

However, they did had another explanation (which - if true - I can find some level of understanding in):

They said that about 10m before the peloton wanted to cross the railway the bell started ringing.
You can't expect a peloton that is doing about 50K/h to completely go into the breaks on such a short distance. Since this extreme braking would cause bumping/falls which would probably cause the first riders to potentially being pushed onto the rails, making it even more dangerous (then intentionally crossing).

Only thing is.... I find it hard to believe the first piece:
If you look at the images, you can clearly see that the beams are already going down when Sky goes under/through them (Sky was at that point leading the peloton). So either the bell and the-beams-going-down happens extremely rapidly after each other in France or either the peloton took a long time over that 10m. 

As said, if the situation is really as suggested above (the peloton being extremely close when bell rings), I do understand that the first guys aren't going to break... and - unfortunately- the riders following them (top-athletes in search of a great performance/victory) aren't going to let the guys who already passed the railway "escape" (I assume that in the middle of the heat, people aren't thinking clearly and just think "don't get dropped now").

However, I don't buy it here... I believe the peloton was far enough out to still - somewhat safely - break in time


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## The Couch (13 Apr 2015)

The SNCF (French railways) will file a formal complaint against unknowns


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## oldroadman (13 Apr 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> All the main Sporting Bodies from FIFA, FINA , IAAF etc all have their own inspectors on site to ensure that any setup passes the required standards. How else would you uphold standards in your sport. I always assumed that UCI follows the international practice that other Sporting Bodies follow. Even Cricket is the same.
> 
> I do recall a World Junior Marathon in Perth where the course was short by 10 Kms or so (can't recall exactly) but mistakes like this do occur and that is why you need a second party with expertise for oversight and final approval. Ever heard of Squash Courts flooring laid horizontally rather than vertically.
> 
> Thank god no one was killed.


The sporting bodies mentioned have sports where they are (mainly) on a fixed facility. Inspection is a straightforward matter. It's a bit different when road routes are in use, but your point has merit. It should not be difficult to insist that an inspection of the last 3km is done, with a view to ensuring rider hazard is minimised. Though some Italian races with town centre finishes are a bit challenging! That said, this is road racing and roads have hazards - not that it in any way excuses the Basque Tour appalling cock-up - and how far do we go? Remove cobbled sections, road humps, road furniture (watch Amstel next Sunday for that, Netherlands is a nightmare for it, always was). The metal poles were avoidable, and should have been sorted out, but when on a road, there are things that have to be dealt with, and that is part of the job for a road rider.


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## Arrowfoot (13 Apr 2015)

oldroadman said:


> The sporting bodies mentioned have sports where they are (mainly) on a fixed facility. Inspection is a straightforward matter. It's a bit different when road routes are in use, but your point has merit. It should not be difficult to insist that an inspection of the last 3km is done, with a view to ensuring rider hazard is minimised. Though some Italian races with town centre finishes are a bit challenging! That said, this is road racing and roads have hazards - not that it in any way excuses the Basque Tour appalling cock-up - and how far do we go? Remove cobbled sections, road humps, road furniture (watch Amstel next Sunday for that, Netherlands is a nightmare for it, always was). The metal poles were avoidable, and should have been sorted out, but when on a road, there are things that have to be dealt with, and that is part of the job for a road rider.



No, Marathon, Triathlons etc


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## w00hoo_kent (13 Apr 2015)

The Couch said:


> As said, if the situation is really as suggested above (the peloton being extremely close when bell rings), I do understand that the first guys aren't going to break... and - unfortunately- the riders following them (top-athletes in search of a great performance/victory) aren't going to let the guys who already passed the railway "escape" (I assume that in the middle of the heat, people aren't thinking clearly and just think "don't get dropped now").


If the worry is advantage (and lets face it, who wouldn't bet on a team getting the train schedules and working out the pace they need to get to the level crossing at just the right point if it was a guaranteed break away chance?) then surely they neutralise the race on the other side of the level crossing to negate the advantage? That way there's no point in risking being run over by a train.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Apr 2015)

Incidentally, an early instance of crossing-jumping was in the 1914 Giro d'Italia. On the the 430km Lucca-Rome stage, Lauro Bordin snuck across a railway line while everyone else was waiting and managed to build up a 25min lead. He was riding on his own for 350km but was reeled in with 65km to go. More here.


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## The Couch (13 Apr 2015)

Another thing that has been causing some near-misses in past races are those inflattable (advertisement) arches that span the road for the riders to pass underneath. Both in the Ronde van Vlaanderen and the Scheldeprijs an arch got deflated till the point that the riders could only barely manage to get underneath it.
(I believe in one of last year's Tour of Suisse stages, there was a stage where riders couldn't even ride under it)

So the organization of the Brabantse Pijl has decided to allow only 1 along the track, namely the one highlighting the last kilometer.


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## oldroadman (13 Apr 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> No, Marathon, Triathlons etc


You are quite correct. Marathons, low speeds, not much to worry about. I've been at a few triathlons over the years, and if some of the courses used for bike sections had been risk assessed, the job was not too good. Traffic, narrow two way sections, pedestrian areas (I kid you not). As I noted, in a stage race teams do not chhecvk out every stage, it's logistically impossible. We all get caught out at times (from experience), and have to trust that the organisers know their business. In the case of the Basque Tour they failed. At Paris-Roubaix, it was so high profile (now even SNCF are threatening to sue?), clear TV, that it might (should) lead to a revision of the rules about level crossings to make it properly safe. As ever, though, human nature comes into it, and in that none are perfect.


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## The Couch (14 Apr 2015)

By the way, not sure if this has any traction outside of Belgium/Flanders, but in the U21 race of the Tour of Flanders took part on Saturday and the (same) railway incident took place there as well... 3 seconds  was the difference between the last rider and the train (no need to understand dutch, you can just watch the video)


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## User169 (14 Apr 2015)

oldroadman said:


> . I've been at a few triathlons over the years, and if some of the courses used for bike sections had been risk assessed, the job was not too good.



Guy I know was competing in a triathlon a few weeks ago and two competitors got shot (with firearms) on the bike leg. How's about that for safety!


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## psmiffy (14 Apr 2015)

The Couch said:


> By the way, not sure if this has any traction outside of Belgium/Flanders, but in the U21 race of the Tour of Flanders took part on Saturday and the (same) railway incident took place there as well... 3 seconds  was the difference between the last rider and the train (no need to understand dutch, you can just watch the video)



I find it unbelievable - that


it happened in the U21 race and that the lesson was not learned
That it happened at all - as in the case of the metal posts in Basque race - While I can see oldroadmans point that the teams maybe do not have time to do a "safety run" you would think the organisers would have done a safety audit on the course both in the planning - identify hazard - mitigate risk - and a final check of the course immediately prior to the running - list of hazards - tick box - having been beside the roadside on a couple of occasions there are zillions of people running around either in pickup trucks, cars or on motorbikes - a couple of reasonably competant geezers could easily be assigned to carry out this task without damaging the budget too much


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## Strathlubnaig (14 Apr 2015)

The Couch said:


> By the way, not sure if this has any traction outside of Belgium/Flanders, but in the U21 race of the Tour of Flanders took part on Saturday and the (same) railway incident took place there as well... 3 seconds  was the difference between the last rider and the train (no need to understand dutch, you can just watch the video)


There is a link to video of the U23 Vlaanderen race on Cyclingnews with numerous riders ignoring the gates and bells, the last man, Christopher Latham of GBR scraped through by a few metres if that. Riders can whine about safety but it cuts both ways, these guys are very irresponsible. On an actual workplace site they would be run off the job for it.


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## HF2300 (14 Apr 2015)

Strathlubnaig said:


> There is a link to video of the U23 Vlaanderen race on Cyclingnews with numerous riders ignoring the gates and bells, the last man, Christopher Latham of GBR scraped through by a few metres if that. Riders can whine about safety but it cuts both ways, these guys are very irresponsible. On an actual workplace site they would be run off the job for it.



This is the same incident @The Couch linked to on the Dutch site. It's quite scary.

In the Cyclingnews item Paolini is quoted as _"insisting that rider safety should always be a priority and that trains should be stopped for such an important race",_ which strikes me as (a) not having a clue, and (b) having a somewhat overinflated idea of his own self-importance.

As an aside, Cyclingnews claim to have _"translated and collated Paolini’s 14 tweets for clarity"_ where what they actually seem to mean is "_stitched them together and_ _fed them through Google Translate in order to mangle them completely"._ I particularly like_ "... it obfuscates the lucidity of the circus that is cycling"._


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Mar 2016)

With Anotine Demoitié's death, it seems timely to revive this thread to discuss what can be done to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Suggested reforms include speed limits on motos and cars around the peloton, reductions in the numbers of motos, with some favouring only official race camera motos and no outisde news agencies or TV stations, and specialist training and certification for drivers.


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## Crackle (28 Mar 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> With Anotine Demoitié's death, it seems timely to revive this thread to discuss what can be done to prevent this kind of thing from happening.
> 
> Suggested reforms include speed limits on motos and cars around the peloton, reductions in the numbers of motos, with some favouring only official race camera motos and no outisde news agencies or TV stations, and specialist training and certification for drivers.


Also talk of a core of official vehicles which I imagine would be quite difficult to set up with various race bodies and distances between races but surely not insurmountable.


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## psmiffy (28 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Also talk of a core of official vehicles which I imagine would be quite difficult to set up with various race bodies and distances between races but surely not insurmountable.



does the actual TV coverage not work like that anyway? ie specialised TV unit - bit like the rolling circus that televises the European golf tour


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## Crackle (28 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> does the actual TV coverage not work like that anyway? ie specialised TV unit - bit like the rolling circus that televises the European golf tour


I imagined so, at least some overlap, however there might not be and the press photographers might be completely different. From Marmions link in the other thread

_“I think it’s clear [moto drivers] need more training, and more consistency,” he said. “Can we afford to have the same people at every race? Rather than a revolving door of different drivers every week, have a professional corps of drivers who travel to each race, so an understanding and a sense of predictability can develop between the peloton and drivers.”_

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/03/comm...y-a-tragedy-that-has-been-a-long-time-coming/


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## oldroadman (28 Mar 2016)

In the UK, anyone around a race on a moto has to get cleared by BC. Which, according to a local NEG (National Escort Group) co-ordinator, means they must have an advanced moto driving qualification (e.g. IAM), have passed an online module at BC, have completed a number of races as a trainee, before being "passed fit to operate". Only then do they get a licence endorsement on their BC card. The only exception seems to be TV motos, these guys are at all the UK races and from what I have seen are well trained and work to a high standard. Even moto-commissaires, radio tour motos, all need a licence from BC, and have to go through NEG qualification. All of which contributes to safety. The same guy mentioned that they train to keep passing speeds (when moving past riders) at a small differential, unlike some of the police escort motos in the major races! What he did say was that at some point you end up pushing through a peloton to get forward, and it can take anything upwards of 5-10 minutes, when effectively the moto is part of the peloton, and riders give zero space, or maybe half a metre at most. This allows no error room and the NEG guys say it's a worrying thing, riders themselves can't see the possible consequences of either a fall, or what happens if the motos don't get through so hazards ahead are left unmarked. Everyone has a responsibility. He also told me that the first day of a stage race is the worst, as trust has to be established - except on the first day of the women's tour last year, when apparently the riders just filled the road and would let no-one through, after which some teams moaned that hazards were not marked! As he said, you can't have it both ways. I asked about some comments about a minimum passing distance (a metre or two), at which point he smiled and said "that's up to riders, not motos, if they won't give us the space we would not be able to do the job". As he said, everyone has to play their part, finger pointing and blaming is easy. Sensible solutions need cool heads and co-operation of all concerned.


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## oldroadman (28 Mar 2016)

I'll caveat the above, it applies to BC and UCI races in UK races. What TLI and LVRC do to qualify people I don't know. They can't use BC/NEG so it may be they have their own scheme - anyone have a clue?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Mar 2016)

A (long but interesting) post from Marcel Kittel on FB:
A comment on safety in professional cycling

With the death of Antoine Demoitie we reached a new and very sad lowpoint in the history of cycling and safety. Many... people say it´s part of our job to take risk and that crashes are part of this sport. And I agree. But not completely. Every rider that gets injured, because of a crash that he is not responsible for, is one too much. There is a difference between riders crashing in the last hectic kilometres of a race, fighting for the right wheel before the sprint and riders crashing because of unsafe road furniture, reckless driving of motorbikes or cars, extreme weather conditions and unsafe race routes.

When the peloton goes into a final or passes a crucial, race deciding point of a race, then every rider knows that it is potentially dangerous. We brake late before the last important corner, we fight for wheels, don´t hesitate to go into a gap that might be too small, we even push each other away to hold or get a better position in the bunch – all that at highspeed and not only our own physical and mental limit, but also at the limit of our tires and brakes. That risk is calculated and, I don´t want to lie here, also one of the reasons why I love cycling. There is this action going on and it´s a real fight for the win! It makes you proud when you win a race, come back to the bus and you talk with your team mates about how good it worked, how well you defended or conquered the position in the final that brought you the win in the end. And you start to talk about those dangerous moments where you almost crashed but somehow you avoided the pile up in front of you or you got you bike straight again after you almost lost it in a corner. The moments of adrenaline, the rush of speed and the victory as reward afterwards are one of the components that make our sport so interesting.

But in the last years it became more and more obvious that cycling has an increasing problem with safety. Here a little reminder from the last 2 seasons: Greg van Avermaet (San Sebastian), Peter Sagan (Tour of Spain), Taylor Phinney (US Nationals), Stig Broeckx (Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne), Jesse Sergent (Tour of Flanders) and Jakob Fuglsang (Tour de France) have been all involved in crash with a motorbike or neutral car. Peter Stetina (Vuelta Pais Vasco), Tom Boonen (Tour of Abu Dhabi) or Matt Brammeier (Tour of Utah) crashed because of an unsafe race route.

Many of them ended up in hospital with heavy, career influencing injuries and had a long, painful rehabilitation ahead of them. But the crashes also influenced the outcome of the race – something that is not in the interest of anyone. Not the teams, organiser, sponsors, media and the cycling fan at home. And think about it: there are no winners in those situations. The rider is hurt. The car driver or motorbike rider has this lifelong burden of having injured a rider or worse. The races don´t get a result that comes purely down to physical and tactical strength. Cycling as sport but also as means of transportation for everyone will be associated with such tragic events.

It´s clear: Cycling´s biggest problem was doping and still has to be fought. But the safety issues that are obvious, should get the same attention and priority as the fight for clean sport. Not only because lives can be lost but also because there wasn´t done much until now. Last major change was the Extreme Weather Protocol that was introduced this year. And before that, and only after the death of Andrei Kivilev, the UCI made helmets compulsory in 2003.

But from that year till now cycling has made also a tremendous change. The globalisation of cycling created many new races in countries around the world and the fight against doping shifted the focus of improvement more to a focus on training, equipment and nutrition. Riders train harder, are more efficient and look for every improvement that is possible. We get the best support from our teams to be better and faster, our bike sponsors are striving for faster and lighter bikes, we are doing aerodynamic tests to be 0.5 seconds quicker over 10 kilometers, electronic shiftings help us to shift faster and since 2016 we are allowed to ride on disc brakes so we can brake later. That all leads to a situation where the peloton rides faster and takes more risk. Pressure is on everyone to perform and be in front.

It´s part of this evolution process in modern cycling to improve not only the rider and bike but also the race course where the peloton is racing on. It´s necessary to set higher and better standards for professional bike races and that´s not up to the riders but to the organisers and the UCI. It´s easy to say that the riders are doing the race and therefore have the responsibility for it. But it´s simply not true. There are so many things in a race that are beyond the control of a rider: dangerous finishes, all the other vehicles that follow the race, spectators and weather for example. The riders are busy enough with concentrating on the race and need to trust organisers and the rules that they will be guided safely by experienced people on carefully chosen roads.

We need to work together to keep this sport safe and give sense to the tragic accident of Antoine Demoitie. It would be great if we can see some major changes and development out of a discussion over safety. We need to start talking openly about it now. That´s what I expect from my governing body and rider association. For starters it would be good to see more experienced, well trained drivers in cars and on motorbikes, a yearly statistic that keeps track of crashes in races in order to see a positive or negative development and more signs/flashing lights that indicate sharp corners or dangerous points.

Tomorrow at the start of the 3 Days of De Panne we will mourn the loss of Antoine and pay respect to him, his family and team after this horrible accident. We owe it to Antoine that we do everything to let that never happen again.


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## Crackle (29 Mar 2016)

Davi Millar throws his perspective into the ring. So far, no two alike. See the Secret Pro for another perspective, a seemingly slightly less informed one.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...s-218677?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social


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## Rasmus (29 Mar 2016)

Is there a facepalm emoji?


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## themosquitoking (29 Mar 2016)

Not that i can see though there are ones for gun and snowball.


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## oldroadman (30 Mar 2016)

Rasmus said:


> Is there a facepalm emoji?



Can't see a real issue here, pass well timed, nobody in any danger, probably the official car getting out of a narrowing gap as the trio were messing about near a finish. Anyone who has ridden or worked on races at a level where there are lots of vehicles knows how it all works. No one is out to hit anyone else.


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## HF2300 (29 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> ... riders give zero space, or maybe half a metre at most. This allows no error room and the NEG guys say it's a worrying thing ... I asked about some comments about a minimum passing distance (a metre or two), at which point he smiled and said "that's up to riders, not motos, if they won't give us the space we would not be able to do the job".



As I understand it, in the Demoitié accident the moto hit the crash group from behind, which if true means the moto was in control of the space available; and the impression I had of the incidents we saw last year was that they were situations of moto encroaching on riders, rather than the other way round.

As you suggest, all of these things are problems and wise heads are needed.

I seem to remember there are UCI regs governing moto experience and training, but I may be misremembering.


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## HF2300 (29 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> ... riders give zero space, or maybe half a metre at most. This allows no error room and the NEG guys say it's a worrying thing ... I asked about some comments about a minimum passing distance (a metre or two), at which point he smiled and said "that's up to riders, not motos, if they won't give us the space we would not be able to do the job".



As I understand it, in the Demoitié accident the moto hit the crash group from behind, which if true means the moto was in control of the space available; and the impression I had of the incidents we saw last year was that they were situations of moto encroaching on riders, rather than the other way round.

As you suggest, all of these things are problems and wise heads are needed.

I seem to remember there are UCI regs governing moto experience and training, but I may be misremembering.


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## oldroadman (29 Apr 2016)

One thing I am aware of, in UK the motos on NEG duty are all trained to a high standard. Looking at the website they need to have advanced riding qualifications, then you are allowed to do an online training, pass a theory test, then do as many races as the examiners think is necessary before being let loose at small races. Again, the structure is laid out and only those who get to the upper levels are on big races. Shame there's not something similar for car drivers. It seems that BC's NEG have a very good safety record, possibly even better than some of their overseas counterparts. yet talking to a friend who is in NEg a few days ago, he said that jibes and comments have been coming from a few riders "don't run me over today please", etc. The amount of internet trolling from no-nothings (or know-very-littles) affects UK domestic races - what's that about. From what I've seen, some riders in races I've watched need to have a look at their own skills before criticising anyone else's.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Aug 2016)

Maybe time to revive this thread once again in light of the crashes at the Olympic Road Races. It's actually quite important that we don't concentrate on that course as 'uniquely dangerous' even though there are specific things that are different at the Olympics. 

What can we learn from the RRs to add to this conversation on rider safety?


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## rich p (8 Aug 2016)

To be honest, I've discussed the RR course with some friends and come to no conclusion. Was it more dangerous than some of the alpine descents we habitually see in the vuelta for instance? Or was it a really dangerous descent because in a one day race more risks are taken since there are no chances to claw back time?
If you take any corner too fast there is a risk of injury so one tempers reckless speed with prudence. 
I'm not sure of the answers and mention it in the spirit of enquiry.


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## brommers (9 Aug 2016)

The roadsides were awful with gullies and big kerbs, but not one fall that I saw was caused by the course - all rider mistakes. ps. I didn't see what happened to Porte.


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## SWSteve (9 Aug 2016)

Could they not have placed styrofoam bars alone the curbs at least. 

I'm certain I've seen things such as this https://goo.gl/images/wZ9uVm with a section that's been cut out to allow it to block a pole/stone corner


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## HF2300 (9 Aug 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Maybe time to revive this thread once again in light of the crashes at the Olympic Road Races.



Although it does mean we're now discussing the same thing in two separate threads...



brommers said:


> The roadsides were awful with gullies and big kerbs, but not one fall that I saw was caused by the course - all rider mistakes. ps. I didn't see what happened to Porte.



I don't think you can tell. Someone in another thread suggested van Vleuten's line was wrong, but that can be affected by road surface. We didn't see Thomas', Nibali's & Henao's or Porte's accidents, just the aftermath. Thomas in interview said that his accident was caused by his rear wheel skipping on a ridge in the surface and locking up.


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## toffee (9 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> The roadsides were awful with gullies and big kerbs, but not one fall that I saw was caused by the course - all rider mistakes. ps. I didn't see what happened to Porte.


It's not so much as the cause but the injuries that were result of the roadside structures. Van Vleuten's injuries would have been much worse if she had landed on the kerb. The attempt to put bales in front of a few pointy buts of kerb where just a joke.

Derek


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## Viking (9 Aug 2016)

IMO, the Olympic course, itself was OK. The skill of balancing high cornerning speed versus having an off is all part or racing. However, the area where I think the course was unsatisfactory is in the penalty for getting that balance wrong. AFAIK, the Nibali and Henao crashes were "normal"; they overlooked it, fell and broke bones. That happens in lots of races but they were lucky that they didn't hit the kerbs where their injuries could have been much worse. In the women's race, the inadequacy of the safety provisions, rather than the course itself, were exposed. It was horrible to watch, I feel angry that it was passed in that condition and getting a corner wrong shouldn't involve a potential life-threatening penalty.

(But it also happens elsewhere e.g. Sportives where people come off and hit a tree and so on)


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## oldroadman (9 Aug 2016)

On another thread someone suggested that all race convoy personnel should be first aid trained. Which implies that they would stop doing their prime job and look after a rider as necessary. Nice thought but it wouldn't happen. You may end up with cars and motos stopped in the road then hit by other riders. best that everyone does their own job properly, not turn into amateur medics. I note that there is a quote "two minutes to get to Van Vlueten". Which in a strung out race is what might be expected, even if medic motos were through the inevitable barrage which would be on at this point following the final climb.
Obviously as quick as possible is what's required, but if it's endangering others then that's not correct.


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## fimm (9 Aug 2016)

oldroadman said:


> .... You may end up with cars and motos stopped in the road then hit by other riders......


I remember thinking when Nibali and Henao crashed that I really hoped that they and their bikes would be out of the road before the next group came through...


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Although it does mean we're now discussing the same thing in two separate threads...



What I was hoping for was to extend the conversation, so as not to forget that it isn't just about Brazil or this particular course, particularly as some of the obejctions to any description of the Olympics course as dangerous were to say 'well, it's no more dangerous than Race X'. 

Plus this thread was here first.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Feb 2017)

Cookson "declares" a step in the right direction with the publication of new guidelines
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-publishes-guidelines-for-vehicle-circulation-the-race-convoy/


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