# Are they having a laugh ?



## Venod (26 Jan 2014)

Look at the entry fee for this sportive, a ride you you could do yourself for nothing.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/e...--Highlights-Of-Stage-One-2014-(June)#summary


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

It will be full quite quickly, so msybe they have priced it right. Not the type of thing I would pay for.


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## ianrauk (26 Jan 2014)

They probably throw in a free gel or banana.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Jan 2014)

Neverwasnevergonnabe membership fee.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (26 Jan 2014)

Greed innit?


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## midliferider (26 Jan 2014)

Whatever happens to cycling for leisure, fun and purpose (commute or as a means of transport)....


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## steve52 (26 Jan 2014)

ive done a couple of sportives at the £20 mark, and the were good fun and well organised, but the price is going up and up and the food and freebi bag are getting worse so ive stopped and gon back to rideing myself.(yes i know the freebi bags not really free )


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## Flying Dodo (26 Jan 2014)

I had noticed that as soon as they announced the TdF was going to Yorkshire, prices rocketed upwards, so a massive fee of £99 for a sportive, at least double the normal rate, actually seems par for the course. Sadly. But then again I wouldn't pay it.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

Just turn up and ride it with everyone else. O.k you won't get your 'free gel/banana/stale slice of cake or a timing chip but who cares.

Last year the Chiltern 100 sportive started from Chesham not far from me. 3 of us rode over to near the start, rode the 70 mile route and rode home again making a nice 100 mile day in the saddle riding with all the other riders. We had our own food, garmin recorded everything, I even downloaded the route from their website!


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

2893335 said:


> Were you not worried that someone you knew might see you and think you are the sort to pay to enter a sportive?


No, we didn't have the stupid free number to stick on your bike frame either.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Well there are a lot of people happy to pay the money, so that makes people like me and maybe you mugs total muppets, call us what you want for not noticing a good chance to get into this idea and make some money from it. In the nineties I used to run the biggest reliability in Lincolnshire up to 70+ people back to my house for free food afterwards, if only I had known.

Something else, just because somebody else wants to spend their money on something you lot might not want to does not make them stupid. Rant over but I will be back, choices if you have money you have them, if you have no money then you have fewer.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

2893375 said:


> Call that a rant?


Maybe not by your standards, I am trying to be nicer in 2014, struggling with it though.


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## theclaud (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> just because somebody else wants to spend their money on something you lot might not want to does not make them stupid.



Even if it's one of these?


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

theclaud said:


> Even if it's one of these?


My mates got one of them, ideal vehicle for him. Chuck his work tools in the back,room for 4 in the cab. What's not to like?


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

theclaud said:


> Even if it's one of these?



Just a tool, I do work for one of the main dealers and they have plenty of farmers who use them. Not a bad builders wagon as well if you drag a small plant trailer around etc.


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## theclaud (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Just a tool



Well... quite.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

theclaud said:


> Well... quite.



Extremely selective quoting alert, I suppose it keeps the post counts up.


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

I don't see what the issue is with sportives and their pricing.

So some company offers a product at a price you think is too high but they manage to sell it all to others who think the price is OK. What's the big deal?

Posters on CC are not representative of the wider cycling public; plenty of folk out there that consider £99 for a supported one-off special ride a perfectly reasonable price


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said:


> I don't see what the issue is with sportives and their pricing.
> 
> So some company offers a product at a price you think is too high but they manage to sell it all to others who think the price is OK. What's the big deal?
> 
> Posters on CC are not representative of the wider cycling public; plenty of folk out there that consider £99 for a supported one-off special ride a perfectly reasonable price



Spot on post, well worth more that just a like.


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## Venod (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said

" Posters on CC are not representative of the wider cycling public; plenty of folk out there that consider £99 for a supported one-off special ride a perfectly reasonable price"

I would agree if you don't think its expensive then enter, but I can't think of anyone I know who would, its getting like running, London Marathon, The Great North Run, these were events that normal club runners enjoyed until they became too expensive.


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## oldroadman (26 Jan 2014)

Rule of the market - you have a product, if it's something people want enough, they will pay for it. Whether anyone who will not buy thinks it's too expensive/poor value is of no consequence at all. If the product is an event and fills up, then that's a result for the promoters. If you think spaortives are dear, don't go close to corporate events, having been involved with a few be assured £99 is nothing to the people who ride top end bikes worth £4,000+. Remember, "cycling is the new golf".
As for riding round a sportive route for free, fine. I hope you didn't follow all the arrows and signs they worked to put up and take down, because that wouldn't be really fair, would it?


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Afnug said:


> nickyboy said
> 
> " Posters on CC are not representative of the wider cycling public; plenty of folk out there that consider £99 for a supported one-off special ride a perfectly reasonable price"
> 
> I would agree if you don't think its expensive then enter, but I can't think of anyone I know who would, its getting like running London Marathon, The Great North Run, these were events that normal club runners enjoyed until they became too expensive.



I know of a lot of guys and gals who will enter.

As for the North Run, fantastic event now that it is not just advertised for club runners. Getting people off of their backsides and outside doing a bit of exercise. Perfect.


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## oldroadman (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> I know of a lot of guys and gals who will enter.
> 
> *As for the North Run, fantastic event now that it is not just advertised for club runners. Getting people off of their backsides and outside doing a bit of exercise. Perfect*.


 
Working off some of the Newcastle Brown and pies....


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## Venod (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> I know of a lot of guys and gals who will enter.
> 
> As for the North Run, fantastic event now that it is not just advertised for club runners. Getting people off of their backsides and outside doing a bit of exercise. Perfect.



It wasn't just advertised for club runners it was for everybody at a reasonable entry price, its now for the for the people who can afford the inflated entry fee, which is not everybody.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Afnug said:


> It wasn't just advertised for club runners it was for everybody at a reasonable entry price, its now for the for the people who can afford the inflated entry fee, which is not everybody.



It might not be everybody but it is a lot of people, and you cannot say it is not succesful. There are plenty of cheaper to enter events going on all the time, you are just picking one of the showcase one's.

I can remember when chips were 6pence a bag.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Working off some of the Newcastle Brown and pies....



Maybe, but if it works and raises some money for extremely good cause then that can only be good.


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## jowwy (26 Jan 2014)

Afnug said:


> It wasn't just advertised for club runners it was for everybody at a reasonable entry price, its now for the for the people who can afford the inflated entry fee, which is not everybody.


the cinema used to be cheap for evryone to go to aswell, but as with everything in life, costs go up due to inflation and other outside factors. People who want to ride it, will pay whatever the cost. In the same way as people still pay to go to the cinema.


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## totallyfixed (26 Jan 2014)

From 25p to £1 per mile to ride your bike, incredible.


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## potsy (26 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> From 25p to £1 per mile to ride your bike, incredible.


I take it you and dr_pink won't be riding this one?


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## totallyfixed (26 Jan 2014)

potsy said:


> I take it you and dr_pink won't be riding this one?


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## Venod (26 Jan 2014)

jowwy said:


> the cinema used to be cheap for evryone to go to aswell, but as with everything in life, costs go up due to inflation and other outside factors. People who want to ride it, will pay whatever the cost. In the same way as people still pay to go to the cinema.



Of course costs go up, but price escalation of some of the events is nothing to do with inflation, other similar events have not seen the excessive price rises.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

oldroadman said:


> having been involved with a few be assured £99 is nothing to the people who ride top end bikes worth £4,000+. Remember, "cycling is the new golf".



This about sums it up.

I have a mate who will happily go on these things, he's a clever so and so but can't seem to see the wood for the trees when it comes to stuff like this.

I'll let him grovel up the local hills and go on these stupid things, pretending he's riding a bike.


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## snorri (26 Jan 2014)

.


Afnug said:


> its getting like running, London Marathon, The Great North Run, these were events that normal club runners enjoyed until they became too expensive.


If these popular events had remained cheap to enter, then "everyone" would have been entering and with huge numbers involved there would have been little pleasure for anyone. There has to be a form of selection and price is the easiest way.
Start up an event yourself from scratch, and if you get the formula right you might never have to work again


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## Venod (26 Jan 2014)

snorri said:


> .
> 
> If these popular events had remained cheap to enter, then "everyone" would have been entering and with huge numbers involved there would have been little pleasure for anyone. There has to be a form of selection and price is the easiest way.
> Start up an event yourself from scratch, and if you get the formula right you might never have to work again



They have a limit on numbers & even at inflated prices people are turned away.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

It's different to the running events though isn't it?.

I can run 10km, 26 miles or whatever on my tod or with a small group, but the "fun" is the mass participation and (the key difference) being cheered on by the crowd. 

I must be missing something?


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Of course people cannot start an event themselves, that costs time, money, expertise etc. it is lot easier to just moan and groan about things as that takes very little effort.

Having organised events for about 20 years up until 8 years ago when I got fed up with the moaning do nothing whingers I know a little of what is involved.

Without knowing the costs involved we have no idea of the profit margins involved and lets face it there is risk there.,


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Afnug said:


> They have a limit on numbers & even at inflated prices people are turned away.



Do you know why number are limited, I do and I am not saying.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

oldroadman said:


> As for riding round a sportive route for free, fine. I hope you didn't follow all the arrows and signs they worked to put up and take down, because that wouldn't be really fair, would it?


I didn't, I used my garmin. The thing is they hold these events on public roads and if I happen to be cycling the same route as a sportive on the same day at the same time, so what? I don't need a timing chip (my garmin does that) I take my own food or stop at a shop/cafe , so what's the problem.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> I didn't, I used my garmin. The thing is they hold these events on public roads and if I happen to be cycling the same route as a sportive on the same day at the same time, so what? I don't need a timing chip (my garmin does that) I take my own food or stop at a shop/cafe , so what's the problem.



Etiquette, or lack of it in your case. I would never knowingly ride on a route where an event was going on be it a road race, a TT or a Sportive. It is just one of the unwritten rules of cycling I was bought up with.


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## snorri (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Just turn up and ride it with everyone else. O.k you won't get your 'free gel/banana/stale slice of cake or a timing chip but who cares., I even downloaded the route from their website!


 
Who cares you ask.
Those who don't want to be labelled as freeloading cheapskates.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Etiquette, or lack of it in your case. I would never knowingly ride on a route where an event was going on be it a* road race, a TT or a Sportive*. It is just one of the unwritten rules of cycling I was bought up with.



There's a vast difference between a sportive and the others. A chasm in fact.


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## potsy (26 Jan 2014)

Public roads means anyone can ride them whatever event is on, if you want closed roads then that's a different matter.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

snorri said:


> Who cares you ask.
> Those who don't want to be labelled as freeloading cheapskates.


Freeloading on who. They're public roads.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Freeloading on who. They're public roads.



Aye, those pesky cars should be made to pay an "entrance fee" too


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Etiquette, or lack of it in your case. I would never knowingly ride on a route where an event was going on be it a road race, a TT or a Sportive. It is just one of the unwritten rules of cycling I was bought up with.


Sportives aren't a race, if I new a road race or tt was on I wouldn't ride there as I don't race and wouldn't want to get tangled up in it. Sportives are completely different.


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## snorri (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Freeloading on who. They're public roads.


 
Look upthread, someone proudly typed this > I even downloaded the route from their website!


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

It was free to download to anyone


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> There's a vast difference between a sportive and the others. A chasm in fact.



I've just worked it out :lightbulb:

People believe the three are all the same, hence why sportives are so popular.

Damn, I'm smart.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Sportives aren't a race, if I new a road race or tt was on I wouldn't ride there as I don't race and wouldn't want to get tangled up in it. Sportives are completely different.



If you ride that route regularly, or going that way anyway, then you could have a valid point. But to deliberately upload the route data to you Garmin and join in a paid for event a few miles down the road for free is somewhat low. Public roads or not, the cars are not trying to join in with the sportive, whilst you most certainly are.


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## Flying Dodo (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Of course people cannot start an event themselves, that costs time, money, expertise etc. it is lot easier to just moan and groan about things as that takes very little effort.
> 
> Having organised events for about 20 years up until 8 years ago when I got fed up with the moaning do nothing whingers I know a little of what is involved.
> 
> Without knowing the costs involved we have no idea of the profit margins involved and lets face it there is risk there.,



I run a number of ad hoc rides here, as well as running rides for Sustrans for which I have to do things by the book, with risk assessments, so I've got a vague inkling of what's involved.

Two years ago, I looked into the MoonRiders charity events, when they seemed to have got the idea of a night ride to Brighton from somewhere, but run it as a commercial event linked to raising money for charity. After speaking to the various charities involved, from each rider, the firm behind it got between £70-£95 per rider. Nearly 1,000 took part last year I understand, with limited marshalling. Public liability insurance would be peanuts compared with the total income for the organisers.

Running sportives must be profitable or else there wouldn't be a year on year increase in the numbers being run, many by new organisations. Which all seem to sell out.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> There's a vast difference between a sportive and the others. A chasm in fact.


I think you read me wrong, the point is I know the difference very well. The point is although different they are all events that people have organized or entered.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

FD, I would not run a business without wanting to make a profit, maybe you shoulf carry on organising and make them larger.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> I think you read me wrong, the point is I know the difference very well. The point is although different they are all events that people have organized or entered.



You're looking at it from a different perspective, from the organiers point of view. I am looking at it from the participants point of view.

Alls fair in business.

Where someone is competing then its insane to gatecrash, when participating on an open road, different story.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

User13710 said:


> There was a case not that long ago where a group of unregistered riders stuffed their faces and pockets with the food at check-ins on an organised ride - I forget whether it was a sportive or an audax. That is completely out of order in my book. But as the person you are addressing says they took their own food, and rode a route on a public road, I really don't understand what your point is here.



The point is simple. They would not have gone if not for the opportunity to ride with others in a mass participation event. Therefore the saw some value and fun to be had in that. This fun came at a price set by the organisers which they dodged. Yes not as bad as taking free food too but still low IMO.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

Wrong again I am looking at it more from the participants viewpoint. As I posted it is something I was taught 45 years ago.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Wrong again I am looking at it more from the participants viewpoint. As I posted it is something I was taught 45 years ago.



Well we will disagree. You are a participant in a sportive. You are not competing so it's not important if someone gets in your way. You have no idea if the fellow next to you has paid the same amount as you to ride his bike on a bit of tarmac that is free to ride or cycle on at any time.

Turning up and going into a private area (e.g. the food stops) then different story.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> The point is simple. They would not have gone if not for the opportunity to ride with others in a mass participation event. Therefore the saw some value and fun to be had in that. This fun came at a price set by the organisers which they dodged. Yes not as bad as taking free food too but still low IMO.


The area is where I ride most Sundays, so I would of been there on part of the route at some point, if not more points of it anyway. Like I said I didn't have any of the food at the stops, just cycled past.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> Well we will disagree. You are a participant in a sportive. You are not competing so it's not important if someone gets in your way. You have no idea if the fellow next to you has paid the same amount as you to ride his bike on a bit of tarmac that is free to ride or cycle on at any time.
> 
> Turning up and going into a private area (e.g. the food stops) then different story.


Maybe different cycling clubs have different unwritten rules of ettiquete. As you can see I have my rules which I know I have passed on to some folk.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Maybe different cycling clubs have different unwritten rules of ettiquete.



sorry, don't follow? cycling clubs?


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> The area is where I ride most Sundays, so I would of been there on part of the route at some point, if not more points of it anyway. Like I said I didn't have any of the food at the stops, just cycled past.



Which is fine if it is part of your route anyway. But I don't like the idea of others deliberately joining in a paid event for free when they would not have otherwise been there.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> sorry, don't follow? cycling clubs?


So you may not have been told some of things I was.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

huh?


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## snorri (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> The area is where I ride most Sundays, .


...so why did you need to download the route from the sportive website if you know the area already?
It rather looks as if you enjoy group cycling but just don't want to pay for the pleasure, which takes us back to the freeloading.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

2893992 said:


> The lore


Correct. Do you you think it is wrong.


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

2894047 said:


> Freeloading? What would he take from the event?


You really are just trying to wind up tonight .


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

2894047 said:


> Freeloading? What would he take from the event?


The feeling of camaraderie. Ever felt it?


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## screenman (26 Jan 2014)

2894063 said:


> Read the forum and find your answer


I only asked, a very simple yes or no would have done.


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

2894056 said:


> Yes and no. I wouldn't tag uninvited on the back of a club run where I was not a member. On the other hand BHF's L2B is fair game.



Marginal cost isn't the issue here. Others have paid for the feeling of camaraderie associated with a mass participation ride. That's part of the product. If you just tag along then you get that same, warm feeling but without contributing.
And that's not reasonable


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## theclaud (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Marginal cost isn't the issue here. Others *have paid for the feeling of camaraderie* associated with a mass participation ride. That's part of the product. If you just tag along then you get that same, warm feeling but without contributing.
> And that's not reasonable



You can't buy it.


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## potsy (26 Jan 2014)

theclaud said:


> You can't buy it.


Not even for £99?


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

As has been alluded to above, don't compare a club run to a sportive. The difference is striking, not least because they most often welcome "non payers".

I am waiting for the first motor manufactor to bring out a "sportive" model.


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

theclaud said:


> You can't buy it.



Sure you can. Along with waymarking, food and goodie bags, the feeling of being part of a large group all participating in the same activity is one of the main selling (and thus buying) points


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

Whether I turn up or not and ride the route on PUBLIC roads as the same time as people that have paid some company to do the same, get a time chip, energy drink and cheap cake makes no odds to the company or their profits.


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

2894236 said:


> And how does a person interloping deminish this? Do they steel an incie bit off each of the paying customers?



Just a few interlopers doesn't diminish. I just don't like people refusing to pay for some benefit that others are paying for whilst at the same time enjoying that benefit.

If someone doesn't want to pay and participate that's fine....but why not ride the route another day on their own?


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## StuAff (26 Jan 2014)

Back in August 2012 I and a few other bods rode overnight from Pompey down to Studland Point and back to Bournemouth. Most of us then rode back home, when we found ourselves sharing the road with some participants of the New Forest Rattler sportive. Some of them drafted us for a bit, though we had twice as many miles in our legs already as they were going to do all in. Could we have charged them for the privilege, or felt entitled to have said 'oi mate, give us one of your free gels'? Nope. Why should we? Same principle. And 'camaraderie' in a mass ride? Depends on the ride and the participants. In something like the British Legion's Pedal to Paris, definitely- there was most emphatically an all-for-one spirit, even with nearly 300 riders. A common cause and the way the ride was organised helped there. That, and it was a charity ride with the emphasis on charity, not profit. Sportives, even the good ones? Nope. The really big charity rides? Nope. And as for the Dun Run......


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Just a few interlopers doesn't diminish. I just don't like people refusing to pay for some benefit that others are paying for whilst at the same time enjoying that benefit.
> 
> If someone doesn't want to pay and participate that's fine....but why not ride the route another day on their own?



But you wouldn't know would you?


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Whether I turn up or not and ride the route on PUBLIC roads as the same time as people that have paid some company to do the same, get a time chip, energy drink and cheap cake makes no odds to the company or their profits.


 So ride it the day before or the day after. Why do you have to ride it on that specific day? Or is the reason that you like the idea of the sportive but are just too mean to pay the entry fee?


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## nickyboy (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> But you wouldn't know would you?


 
Well, if I was doing it I would know and I wouldn't do it. Doesn't feel right. If I like the route, I'll ride it another day on my own


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

StuAff said:


> Back in August 2012 I and a few other bods rode overnight from Pompey down to Studland Point and back to Bournemouth. Most of us then rode back home, when we found ourselves sharing the road with some participants of the New Forest Rattler sportive. Some of them drafted us for a bit, though we had twice as many miles in our legs already as they were going to do all in. Could we have charged them for the privilege, or felt entitled to have said 'oi mate, give us one of your free gels'? Nope. Why should we? Same principle. And 'camaraderie' in a mass ride? Depends on the ride and the participants. In something like the British Legion's Pedal to Paris, definitely- there was most emphatically an all-for-one spirit, even with nearly 300 riders. A common cause and the way the ride was organised helped there. That, and it was a charity ride with the emphasis on charity, not profit. Sportives, even the good ones? Nope. The really big charity rides? Nope. And as for the Dun Run......



Similar experience to me mate. Coming back from a saturday ride (80 miler) on my todd. Got "overtook" by a rabble (15 - 20 odd), no hellos and a very close pass by a couple too. I say overtook, because they they were perhaps travelling 1mph faster. I sat on the back for 1/2 a mile, no -one was talking to each other. They pissed me off no end (for riding so farkin close) so cycled past and dropped the lot of them (I wasn't hanging around that day anyway in terms of average speed).

Knew it wasn't a club run so had a look around the web afterwards - some manc-chester-manc "sportive"


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Well, if I was doing it I would know and I wouldn't do it. Doesn't feel right. If I like the route, I'll ride it another day on my own



How would you know if another rider had paid/hand't paid the same fee as you? Do you have to wear a badge?


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

400bhp said:


> How would you know if another rider had paid/hand't paid the same fee as you? Do you have to wear a badge?



Usually a number.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> Usually a number.



But not a given.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

nickyboy said:


> So ride it the day before or the day after. Why do you have to ride it on that specific day? Or is the reason that you like the idea of the sportive but are just too mean to pay the entry fee?


I can't ride the day before or the day after due to work commitments. I'm not to mean, just don't see why I need to pay to cycle on public roads. I don't mind skipping the time chip, stale cake and a bag of crap.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

The examples of forum members ending up in a sportive without knowing it was on is fine and not the issue here. What is the issue is if you deliberately set out to join in with a sportive for whatever reason whether it is the test yourself, camaraderie or just the fun of being with so many other riders, then you should pay the entrance fee. The fact that you wont have a timing chip or join the food stops does not mean that you are not benefiting from the event. The fact that you decided to join in means that you felt that a benefit was to be had in doing so, otherwise you would have done something else with your day.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> The examples of forum members ending up in a sportive without knowing it was on is fine and not the issue here. What is the issue is if you deliberately set out to join in with a sportive for whatever reason whether it is the test yourself, camaraderie or just the fun of being with so many other riders, then you should pay the *entrance fee.* The fact that you wont have a timing chip or join the food stops does not mean that you are not benefiting from the event. The fact that you decided to join in means that you felt that a benefit was to be had in doing so, otherwise you would have done something else with your day.



That implies that there is a gate to a private space. There isn't.

Emperor's new clothes.


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## snorri (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> I'm not to mean,


 
Not too mean, just a little bit mean then, it's all a question of degree.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2014)

2894340 said:


> Well, they could pay everyone a fee to forgo their right to use that bit of road.



I know, let's get all those drivers of vehicles to pay an entrance fee to drive on the roads.

Oh, hang on, already done.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> The examples of forum members ending up in a sportive without knowing it was on is fine and not the issue here. What is the issue is if you deliberately set out to join in with a sportive for whatever reason whether it is the test yourself, camaraderie or just the fun of being with so many other riders, then you should pay the entrance fee. The fact that you wont have a timing chip or join the food stops does not mean that you are not benefiting from the event. The fact that you decided to join in means that you felt that a benefit was to be had in doing so, otherwise you would have done something else with your day.


Pay the entrance fee to what exactly. As far as I know I don't have to pay to cycle on the roads ( well that's what umpteen car drivers shout at me from their car windows)


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## StuAff (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> The examples of forum members ending up in a sportive without knowing it was on is fine and not the issue here. What is the issue is if you deliberately set out to join in with a sportive for whatever reason whether it is the test yourself, camaraderie or just the fun of being with so many other riders, then you should pay the entrance fee. The fact that you wont have a timing chip or join the food stops does not mean that you are not benefiting from the event. The fact that you decided to join in means that you felt that a benefit was to be had in doing so, otherwise you would have done something else with your day.


If one happens to be riding on the same roads at the same time, without partaking of the services the paying customers are using (and that includes the cardboard arrows, there are usually these things called 'road signs' at the same junctions anyway, I pay for those as does every other taxpayer), there is no 'benefit'. Unless you call being close passed by a load of numpties in club kit, etc, a benefit. I certainly don't. I've done a few sportives in the past, good ones, and on all of them I came across cyclists who clearly weren't doing them (the lack of entry numbers was a clear indicator there). They were perfectly entitled to be there.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

StuAff said:


> If one happens to be riding on the same roads at the same time, without partaking of the services the paying customers are using (and that includes the cardboard arrows, there are usually these things called 'road signs' at the same junctions anyway, I pay for those as does every other taxpayer), there is no 'benefit'. Unless you call being close passed by a load of numpties in club kit, etc, a benefit. I certainly don't. I've done a few sportives in the past, good ones, and on all of them I came across cyclists who clearly weren't doing them (the lack of entry numbers was a clear indicator there). They were perfectly entitled to be there.



You quoted my post without reading it it seems. If you happen to be there then no problem. But if you specifically go there to participate in the event without paying then that it not on. 

Technically yes, if the roads are not closed for an event then any road user can be there. And technically they have done nothing wrong, but from a morally a low thing to do to take for free what others have paid for. If there is no benefit then why did they go?


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

User13710 said:


> What exactly are they taking though, if they don't eat the food or get the freebies and the finishing timings?



I am like a stuck record here. They obviously felt they were taking something from it or else they wouldn't have gone. They would have cycled elsewhere or done something else.

I am doing a sportive in April. I will take all my own food and drink and will use my garmin so don't technically need a time chip either. What I hope to get from the event is the mass participation of riding with so many other like minded people. I may be disappointed and end up riding with a miserable bunch who dont want to talk but we shall see.


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## StuAff (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> You quoted my post without reading it it seems. If you happen to be there then no problem. But if you specifically go there to participate in the event without paying then that it not on.
> 
> Technically yes, if the roads are not closed for an event then any road user can be there. And technically they have done nothing wrong, but from a morally a low thing to do to take for free what others have paid for.


I've done sportives, enjoyed them...and paid for them. I no longer feel inclined to do so.
No, I read it perfectly well thank you. Nothing 'technical' about it. People have paid for the things called 'roads' already. Some of them might just prefer not to bother with goody bags, timing chips (many of us have bike computers and smartphones already which do the same job, funnily enough), and to pick their own feeding stations. Or 'cafes', 'tea rooms' and 'supermarkets', as we generally call them.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

2894427 said:


> So they are in fact adding themselves to the camaraderie and enhancing the event?


I like your thinking. I should be paid to ride the event so other cyclists achieve that sense of camaraderie they've paid for.


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## potsy (26 Jan 2014)

This is starting to sound a little like when motorists say they pay for the road so cyclists shouldn't be on it, didn't think I'd get that from fellow riders 
I've only ever done one sportive and that was the Manc to Blackpool 3 years ago, judging by some of the riding on show I wouldn't want to be a part of that again even if you paid me


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

I feel like the whole lot of you are just playing devils advocate here and messing around. It is a very sad state of affairs if you honestly think it is not a problem to just turn up to any sportive in the country and just join in for free. I cannot believe that you all genuinely have that attitude and would consider doing it yourself.


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## StuAff (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> I feel like the whole lot of you are just playing devils advocate here and messing around. It is a very sad state of affairs you honestly think it is not a problem to just turn up to any sportive in the country and just join in for free. I cannot believe that you all genuinely have that attitude and would consider doing it yourself.


'Join in for free'? No, we're exercising our legal right, as taxpayers and citizens, to travel on the roads we pay for when we want to. Next up you'll be trying to tell us that to use downloaded routes from ridewithgps, strava, etc is a breach of copyright.....


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

2894441 said:


> How much are the organisers paying me to stay away?



I give up. I am being trolled and cant be bothered to play anymore.


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## totallyfixed (26 Jan 2014)

Already been hinted at on here, but shall we look at it from a cyclists pov and 2 who regularly ride a certain route in a very quiet picturesque part of the country. One day this cyclist and his partner are riding along together when a car overtakes them and the passenger shouts abuse at them, weird, never happened in these tranquil parts before. A few minutes later after taking a right turn at a t-junction they find themselves in among a long string of "cyclists" many of who are wearing Sky kit. They catch up with the nearest group who are riding three abreast on the narrow country lane and are about to ask what is going on but have to dodge a gel wrapper tossed out by one of the group, before they can speak, one of them riding a Giant carbon bike with 50mm deep section gasps "are you in the race too?" before they can answer he casts a disparaging look at their bikes with no gears, wobbles and nearly brings down his mates and says "forget it".
Utterly puzzled by now, they overtake this small group but a few hundred yards further on are stopped by traffic lights at road works on a blind bend, as they wait there 50 or 60 red faced "cyclists" overtake them and go through the lights which are still on red, a car horn is heard and a few seconds later a car passes them coming through the road works and once again abuse is shouted through the window. Two miles later and climbing a long 5% hill they overtake a great many "cyclists" who are now very red in the face and for reasons unknown are twiddling very low gears at very low speeds and some walking.
The whole experience leaves them very perturbed and feeling unsafe so they cut their ride short and head home thinking, that could never happen again in a million years thank goodness.
One month later big yellow signs with arrows on are still dotted around the area.
Only very very slightly tongue in cheek as it is all factual but not necessarily in that order.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

StuAff said:


> 'Join in for free'? No, we're exercising our legal right, as taxpayers and citizens, to travel on the roads we pay for when we want to. Next up you'll be trying to tell us that to use downloaded routes from ridewithgps, strava, etc is a breach of copyright.....



Nice try


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## StuAff (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> Nice try


Same principle.

And why on earth would you pay to enter a sportive and then not avail yourself of all the included benefits? If you're going to bring your own food, don't care about timing...why not do an audax instead? Beards and Carradices not mandatory these days.....


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> I give up. I cant be bothered to play anymore.


And you didn't have to pay to play either


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

2894453 said:


> You do not insult me like that. Learn some manners,



Don't get me started again.

Apart from Jay who started this all off I don't genuinely believe a single one of you would join in like he did. Maybe I am wrong and my faith in human nature is misplaced though, who knows. Like I said, just trolling.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

StuAff said:


> Same principle.
> 
> And why on earth would you pay to enter a sportive and then not avail yourself of all the included benefits? If you're going to bring your own food, don't care about timing...why not do an audax instead? Beards and Carradices not mandatory these days.....



I will take some of the stuff I am sure but only at the end as don't want to be using gels or foodstuff on the ride that I haven't used before. Yes an audax would have been fine, new to this so did a full on sportive instead.


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

2894461 said:


> Like I said, learn some manners



I have very good manners thank you. For instance I would never join in with a sportive that I hadn't paid for ............ just as an example you understand.


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## jayonabike (26 Jan 2014)

The way I see it is your paying for the time chip, gels and food and not to cycle on the roads as that's free. I don't have a chip, gels or food so I haven't taken anything from the company putting on the event.


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## Dusty Bin (26 Jan 2014)

Great thread. Keep it up fellas...


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## 50000tears (26 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> The way I see it is your paying for the time chip, gels and food and not to cycle on the roads as that's free. I don't have a chip, gels or food so I haven't taken anything from the company putting on the event.



We will just agree to disagree I think. I understand your position but the way I see it is that you must have thought there was something in it for you at some level otherwise you simply wouldn't have gone. Obviously you don't see that something as having a £ value whereas the physical items do. As I set out, for my sportive I see my money as being spent on the event as the pleasure I hope it gives me. The goodies I may get are incidental to that and not important to me. Put it this way the freebies are worth what? A fiver? If I just wanted that I would just pop to my closest health food shop or LBS and save myself the long ride and the extra cost!

A personal view maybe, given the other responses.


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## Wobblers (27 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> Of course people cannot start an event themselves, that costs time, money, expertise etc. it is lot easier to just moan and groan about things as that takes very little effort.
> 
> Having organised events for about 20 years up until 8 years ago when I got fed up with the moaning do nothing whingers I know a little of what is involved.
> 
> Without knowing the costs involved we have no idea of the profit margins involved and lets face it there is risk there.,



Funny you should say that. If you take a look at the "Informal Rides" section you'll find one Dellzeqq who has done exactly that, with all the attendant time, money and expertise. In fact, he organises a dozen rides every year. He does not charge £99 per ride for the privilege. And I can guarantee that the FNRttC is a damn sight better organised than just about any sportive out there. Not to mention comes with a inclusive spirit of comradeship (which Adrian was alluding to), so that doesn't cost £99 either. Not that I've noticed too much comradeship on any sportive.

On the subject of profits, audaxes seem to do quite well on £8 - and often have free food thrown in for your money. Yes, audaxes aren't run for profit (thankfully) but somehow, I really can't see that a timing chip, a few signs and a couple of gels really costs so much more.


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## potsy (27 Jan 2014)

jayonabike said:


> The way I see it is your paying for the time chip, gels and food and not to cycle on the roads as that's free. I don't have a chip, gels or food so I haven't taken anything from the company putting on the event.


And as long as you don't speak to anyone wearing a number you should be fine as you won't be joining in with the camaraderie


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## StuAff (27 Jan 2014)

A few guys I know are doing this one. http://aukweb.com/events/detail/14-140/ 102km £7. Food thrown in. Free 1:5 gradients. No sportive can compare with that VFM.


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## StuAff (27 Jan 2014)

McWobble said:


> Funny you should say that. If you take a look at the "Informal Rides" section you'll find one Dellzeqq who has done exactly that, with all the attendant time, money and expertise. In fact, he organises a dozen rides every year. He does not charge £99 per ride for the privilege. And I can guarantee that the FNRttC is a damn sight better organised than just about any sportive out there. Not to mention comes with a inclusive spirit of comradeship (which Adrian was talking about), so that doesn't cost £99 either. Not that I've noticed too much comradeship on any sportive.
> 
> On the subject of profits, audaxes seem to do quite well on £8 - and often have free food thrown in for your money. Yes, audaxes aren't run for profit (thankfully) but somehow, I really can't see that a timing chip, a few signs and a couple of gels really costs so much more.


I'll be running at least one, and probably more, rides of my own this year. There will be no charge for those either.


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## jayonabike (27 Jan 2014)

Same here, I've never charged for the rides I've organised through CycleChat. In fact I've even been known to buy the coffees


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## jayonabike (27 Jan 2014)

Talking of which, when the Mrs gets her rota for the next 8 weeks I'll be able to organise another Hertfordshire hilly freebee for a Sunday soon. But that's another thread....


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## 50000tears (27 Jan 2014)

Just a final post on this to clear the air a little as I may have rubbed a few of you up the wrong way. I am not suggesting for a second that anyone cannot cycle where they want or when they want, even if that where and when happen to coincide with an organised event. If however you decide to participate in the event without paying the price that the other entrants have, then even where the food stops are not used IMO this shouldn't be done. The £ amount I pay is for me for the experience and not the goodies. That is why I have the opinion that I do on others taking an experience I have paid for for free. I appreciate that others see it differently, and also that I didn't need to pay for a full sportive for this experience when there are lots of audax available. At least I will know that for next time, but mine was booked up months ago before I even knew there was such a thing as an audax!

I meant no offense to anyone who may have found my thoughts on this as overbearing or preaching in any way. Like with many subject matters in life it is all about opinions.


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## jayonabike (27 Jan 2014)

Each to their own and all that...


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## screenman (27 Jan 2014)

McWobble said:


> Funny you should say that. If you take a look at the "Informal Rides" section you'll find one Dellzeqq who has done exactly that, with all the attendant time, money and expertise. In fact, he organises a dozen rides every year. He does not charge £99 per ride for the privilege. And I can guarantee that the FNRttC is a damn sight better organised than just about any sportive out there. Not to mention comes with a inclusive spirit of comradeship (which Adrian was alluding to), so that doesn't cost £99 either. Not that I've noticed too much comradeship on any sportive.
> 
> On the subject of profits, audaxes seem to do quite well on £8 - and often have free food thrown in for your money. Yes, audaxes aren't run for profit (thankfully) but somehow, I really can't see that a timing chip, a few signs and a couple of gels really costs so much more.



So you are saying you have not a got a clue how much they cost to run. You have as most people do missed a lot of expenses off of the list.

What is the average turn out for a Dellzeqq ride, I do not ride these expensive events but I am happy for other people to do so if that is their wish, they have choice which to me is brilliant thing to have.


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## screenman (27 Jan 2014)

2894461 said:


> Like I said, learn some manners


I see bad manners as in joining in on a paid up organised event without paying. Different viewpoints I suppose, different upbringing as well maybe. I was bought up with a club scene where certain etiquette was shown.


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## nickyboy (27 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> I meant no offense to anyone who may have found my thoughts on this as overbearing or preaching in any way. Like with many subject matters in life it is all about opinions.



This is what I don't like about these internet forum thingies. Just when everyone gets nicely entrenched with no apparent way out of the argument, someone comes along and appears all reasonable, like, and it all fizzles out.

FWIW I'm with you @50000tears but I can't remember if I was arguing for arguing's sake cos I've had a sleep since then.

Let's go and enter an expensive sportive today !


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## srw (27 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> I will take some of the stuff I am sure but only at the end as don't want to be using gels or foodstuff on the ride that I haven't used before. Yes an audax would have been fine, new to this so did a full on sportive instead.


"Use" foodstuffs? Good heavens. I eat them.


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## srw (27 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> I see bad manners as in joining in on a paid up organised event without paying. Different viewpoints I suppose, different upbringing as well maybe. I was bought up with a club scene where certain etiquette was shown.


How do you define "join in". You and others seem to be defining it as "ride on the same roads at the same time", while adrian and others seem to be defining it as "take part in the ancillary organised activities". In the case of sportives (£40+), this means the goody bag, the arrows, the food stops and the timing chips, and possibly a mobile mechanic (who will probably charge). In the case of audaxes (£10), this means the chance to get a card stamped, to earn some points and perhaps some free food. In the case of charity rides (£30), this means the arrows and marshals, the medal and the chance to raise money from your friends. In the case of the Isle of Wight Randonnee (£0) this means the chance to get a card stamped. In the case of the FNRttC (£2 for the year) this means the chance to hang around getting cold and gassing while you wait for the back of the ride to catch up.


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## Wobblers (28 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> So you are saying you have not a got a clue how much they cost to run. You have as most people do missed a lot of expenses off of the list.
> 
> What is the average turn out for a Dellzeqq ride, I do not ride these expensive events but I am happy for other people to do so if that is their wish, they have choice which to me is brilliant thing to have.



Between 60-100 people turn up for an FNRttC. The audaxes my club runs are limited to about 200 riders.

All those "hidden costs" - so how come audaxes manage it, with free food, for so much less? A LBS manages to run a Sportive close to me for the princely sum of £15 - how does that work then? I note that, whilst you're not backwards about saying that everyone else doesn't have a clue, but you seem to be less forward in supplying any figures yourself. The fact that a LBS can provide a sportive cheaply, not to mention audaxes manage on very much less is all very strong evidence that all "these expenses" I've missed are much less significant than you would claim.

The fact is, sportives are priced as high as the market will bear. No more, and no less. To claim otherwise is just marketing. Spare us that, we can get plenty of that from Wiggle. And you know what? If people are prepared to pay for that, that's fine. I hope they enjoy themselves. But any suggestion that all those "hidden costs" are fully ten times that of an audax seems way over the top.


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## slowmotion (28 Jan 2014)

2894056 said:


> Yes and no. I wouldn't tag uninvited on the back of a club run where I was not a member. On the other hand BHF's L2B is fair game.


 You bet! Thirty years ago, after flopping into bed at 4 am after an alcoholic epic with some medical students from Bart's Hospital, I "borrowed" a race bike and tagged along at 9 am. No sponsorship at all. No shame either. Just a lot of fun.

The bike was returned to its owner in immaculate condition. I forgot to ask his permission, that's all.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

McWobble said:


> Between 60-100 people turn up for an FNRttC. The audaxes my club runs are limited to about 200 riders.
> 
> All those "hidden costs" - so how come audaxes manage it, with free food, for so much less? A LBS manages to run a Sportive close to me for the princely sum of £15 - how does that work then? I note that, whilst you're not backwards about saying that everyone else doesn't have a clue, but you seem to be less forward in supplying any figures yourself. The fact that a LBS can provide a sportive cheaply, not to mention audaxes manage on very much less is all very strong evidence that all "these expenses" I've missed are much less significant than you would claim.
> 
> The fact is, sportives are priced as high as the market will bear. No more, and no less. To claim otherwise is just marketing. Spare us that, we can get plenty of that from Wiggle. And you know what? If people are prepared to pay for that, that's fine. I hope they enjoy themselves. But any suggestion that all those "hidden costs" are fully ten times that of an audax seems way over the top.



You are correct I have not got a clue, which is why I do not run the organisers down about it, I like companies,clubs and even individuals to make a profit that way they will be there to supply me next time.

I have also said I do not ride Sportives, not only because of the prices but they also tend to have one or two kamikaze riders in, and the mess left behind I do not want to be associated with.

Most of us like some extra money, if it is as easy as many think to run a Sportive and make a years wages out of one, then why do so few people do so. The answer is it is not easy to organise events of this scale I would imagine.


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## srw (28 Jan 2014)

I would challenge "why do so few people do so". There seem to be an awful lot of them about.

Somewhere in one of the charity ride threads there's a back-of-the-envelope calculation of the costs involved and the profits available.


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## byegad (28 Jan 2014)

For that kind of money I'd want my own team car to hang on to for 96 miles!


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

2896670 said:


> Would it be reasonable to assume that, if the event is sold out at £99 per head, the organisers are going to
> A) Make a handsome profit.
> Or
> B) Did something stupid like restrict entry to 10 riders and put gold leaf in the bisons.


Not got a clue Adrian, as I do not know the costs involved. How much is their insurance costs, admin costs, advertising costs, staff costs, equipment hire, venue hire, police costs (if any) fuel bills accountant bills, bank charges, heating, lighting, you know all those little things we sometimes forget.

For sure some will make a profit, surely that is what a business owner wants.


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## 50000tears (28 Jan 2014)

The costs are irrelevant really. Like others have said the companies will charge the highest number they can that still fills the event. Maybe if they charge too much though it may harm their reputation, but don't know if this is a consideration for them or not.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

I think we should be grateful that Ironman is not our chosen sport.


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## Shaun (28 Jan 2014)

To my mind, when you pay a fee it is for the timing kit and data (if any), food stops, start / finish facilites, marshals (if any), course reccy/marking/waypointers, goodie-bags or "extras", mechanic / support vehicle, etc. and anything else the organiser might provide.

It is most definitely _not_ for exclusive hire of the public highways the course/s run over.

Now, of course, if you roll-up and then use the waypoints and marshals without paying an entry fee, then that's perhaps taking somewhat of a small liberty - and, of course, using any of the paid-for facilites or food stops would be incredibly bad manners - but neither the organisers nor participants can really do much of anything about this when using the public highways; you've really just got to hope people won't be so rude as to use the paid-for facilities, and if they do ride the course, do so "in support" of the ride participants and not interfere with or hinder them.


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## snorri (28 Jan 2014)

I don't see the entry fee as as any sort of entitlement to the road anymore than it is an entitlement to the air you breathe as you cycle along that road.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

2896718 said:


> Of course it is but that still ignores what is for me the major point. Party A, the business running the event, sell that to party B, the riders, and between them engender a sense of entitlement to that bit of public highway at that time to the extent that party C, you feel it appropriate to criticise party D, anyone else who decides to use that road at that time.


Bang on, manners maketh man so somebody once said I believe.

I would not consider gate crashing somebodies party good manner.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

2897146 said:


> Nor would you expect to occupy a public road and charge entry for your party, would you?


Yes.


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## nickyboy (28 Jan 2014)

Blimey is this argument still rolling on?

Just to help me to understand others' viewpoints as I am struggling; Roads are public spaces so of course anyone can ride them whenever they want. But someone organises a special event, that you don't want to be part of. But you decide to ride exactly the same route on exactly the same day.

Why not ride some other day? Or ride somewhere else? Of course you can say "Well, I'm entitled to ride whenever and wherever I like" which is true. But why bother riding with a load of other folk when you could ride the route at any time?


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

2897199 said:


> At the risk of falling into your cunningly undisguised trap, I am sure you have a good example to show for this seemingly ill mannered behavior.


Sorry I was called out of the office, I would charge for the event which happened to be on public roads that I had got permission to use for the event.


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## 50000tears (28 Jan 2014)

Shaun said:


> To my mind, when you pay a fee it is for the timing kit and data (if any), food stops, start / finish facilites, marshals (if any), course reccy/marking/waypointers, goodie-bags or "extras", mechanic / support vehicle, etc. and anything else the organiser might provide.
> 
> It is most definitely _not_ for exclusive hire of the public highways the course/s run over.
> 
> Now, of course, if you roll-up and then use the waypoints and marshals without paying an entry fee, then that's perhaps taking somewhat of a small liberty - and, of course, using any of the paid-for facilites or food stops would be incredibly bad manners - but neither the organisers nor participants can really do much of anything about this when using the public highways; you've really just got to hope people won't be so rude as to use the paid-for facilities, and if they do ride the course, do so "in support" of the ride participants and not interfere with or hinder them.



This is a very good post but one point I would disagree with is what is being paid for. When you sign up for a sportive the event is the whole package, the support, the marshalling, the food etc but main part of that event is the bike ride with other like minded people. After all you could take any of the other stuff away, and as long as the mass participation ride is intact and the price point fair, many will want to take part. You take the bike ride away though and you just have a gathering of people wondering why they paid so much for so little, if anyone turned up that is. The "event" is a fully supported bike ride and that is what people pay their money for. Yes you can ride your bike on the same roads for free at any time but that should not give you an open invitation to freeload an organised event.

Yes it is on public roads but this is due to the fact that the police and local authority would not sanction road closures for this type of event even if the organiser wanted it. The roads being open obviously entitles anyone to be there but for me this should not be an excuse to effectively gatecrash a paid for event that you want to participate in but have not paid for.

Another argument I have seen is how it hurts anyone if additional people turn up "without a ticket". This may be true but by the same token the vast majority of people would not consider sneaking into a cinema or a rock concert without paying. However they do see it as game on if it is an event that they can easy access on a public road.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

2897240 said:


> Charge fine, we are all agreed. Occupy?



No certainly not, but I was a while back talking about what I called cycling etiquette. What I believe is right and wrong seems different to what you do.


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## 50000tears (28 Jan 2014)

screenman said:


> No certainly not, but I was a while back talking about what I called cycling etiquette. What I believe is right and wrong seems different to what you do.



Just give up Screenman. Everyone is pretty entrenched in their position and no amount of valid reasoning from either side is going to change their standpoint, even if that standpoint does seen contrary to general decent behaviour.


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## screenman (28 Jan 2014)

50000tears said:


> Just give up Screenman. Everyone is pretty entrenched in their position and no amount of valid reasoning from either side is going to change their standpoint, even if that standpoint does seen contrary to general decent behaviour.


I will take your advice. Going out for a ride now


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## Scoosh (28 Jan 2014)

Shaun said:


> To my mind, ......
> 
> It is most definitely _not_ .....
> 
> Now, of course, if you roll-up .... without paying an entry fee, then that's perhaps taking somewhat of a small liberty - and, of course, using any of the paid-for facilites or food stops would be incredibly bad manners - but neither the organisers nor participants can really do much of anything about this when using the public highways; you've really just got to hope people won't be so rude as to use the paid-for facilities, and if they do ride the course, do so "in support" of the ride participants and not interfere with or hinder them.


... and please do not wear your CycleChat jersey or other kit !


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## totallyfixed (28 Jan 2014)

The last sportive in Rutland trashed our little county, nearly 900 riders doing three different routes so not very easy to avoid either and many of the roads are single track. After last years sportive with large numbers of riders running red lights in Oakham we can now expect less respect on the roads from non cyclists. No one went around after and picked up the gel wrappers and discarded, broken sunglasses or even some of the directional signs. As for cycling etiquette, what a joke, I'll bet the majority wouldn't know the meaning. Like minded people, really? Some were there to "race", some just to get round, others because their mates were doing it, and no doubt some for the scenery etc etc.
The majority of those riding were aged late 30's to early 50's and less than 10% were women, in fact on the longer ride only 6% were female which is less than one would expect [too much testosterone?]. I spoke to one club rider I knew after the event who simply said, "never again".
If you have a peculiar desire to pay 50p or more per mile to ride your bike I don't have a problem with that, up to you, what I do object to is the poor / aggressive riding that goes along with it, that and the huge numbers. The profits are huge, £25 - 30,000 in entry fees.


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## totallyfixed (28 Jan 2014)

2897338 said:


> Be fair, I expect the entry fees only paid for litter collection relating to that dropped by registered riders. Had the organisers had to pay for that dropped by interlopers as well, clearly the stuff you saw, they could never have made a profit.


Sets off out in the wind and rain to pick up a banana skin dropped 3 weeks ago..


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## totallyfixed (28 Jan 2014)

2897351 said:


> Don't slip up


Better to be riding in a bunch on a day like this.


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## 400bhp (28 Jan 2014)

If one were to ride the route, not pay the organisers but donate the proceeds to charity how does that sit?


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