# ..and that's why clubs scare me



## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

So, I'm a fairly novice cyclist, married to a very keen (super-fit) bloke who loves to go out on shorter rides with me. I found a 23 mile circular route near home which I uploaded from a cycle club's website (via MMR). It was billed as a "beginner/returner" route, nothing too challenging.

A few miles in we hit a beastly hill and I had to dismount - and I have NEVER had to do that before. There were 3 killer climbs, one that Mr BP was familiar with that he said was 14%. We live in a hilly part of the country so I am not unfamiliar with hard work. Why would a club promote this route as a beginner choice? Is it designed to humiliate the slowest rider? Do club riders secretly snigger at the poor noobies, and work on other fiendish routes to trap them? Is there such a thing as a club that embraces beginners, especially ladies and improvers? (Please don't say that I'll improve with more riding, I know this! A killer climb does nothing to foster enthusiasm in less capable riders).


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## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

I don't want to link & out the club - I'm sure they are decent people really!! It was in the Dales.

They reaction from my husband, an experienced hill-loving rider, was that it was a bit much for a beginner route, so it wasn't just me being a wuss - although I don't deny that there will be a small element of wussiness on my part, hence me choosing a beginner option!


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## Cycleops (27 Jul 2014)

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

Groucho Marx


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## snorri (27 Jul 2014)

Don't join their club, that'll teach 'em.


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## Herzog (27 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> So, I'm a fairly novice cyclist, married to a very keen (super-fit) bloke who loves to go out on shorter rides with me. I found a 23 mile circular route near home which I uploaded from a cycle club's website (via MMR). It was billed as a "beginner/returner" route, nothing too challenging.
> 
> A few miles in we hit a beastly hill and I had to dismount - and I have NEVER had to do that before. There were 3 killer climbs, one that Mr BP was familiar with that he said was 14%. We live in a hilly part of the country so I am not unfamiliar with hard work. Why would a club promote this route as a beginner choice? Is it designed to humiliate the slowest rider? Do club riders secretly snigger at the poor noobies, and work on other fiendish routes to trap them? Is there such a thing as a club that embraces beginners, especially ladies and improvers? (Please don't say that I'll improve with more riding, I know this! A killer climb does nothing to foster enthusiasm in less capable riders).



What gearing were you using? No club (that I've ever heard of) goes out to "beast" new members, and surely you would have had an idea of what was coming if you'd already downloaded the route before the ride? 

I wouldn't give up though!!


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## screenman (27 Jul 2014)

You do not have to ride a bike to belong to a bike club.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Jul 2014)

Sounds like the problem is you and not the club


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## Dogtrousers (27 Jul 2014)

They scare me too





Scary


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## Apollonius (27 Jul 2014)

I think you are quite right. 23 hilly miles is far too much for a beginner or returner.

The problem is that people who can do something (club cyclists) have little conception of what it like NOT to be able to do it. I had the same problem with maths teachers. By definition, they are good at maths. To them it is obvious you just divide by 2xy to get the answer. 

Mrs A has been off her bike for 4 weeks after coming off her horse in quite a big way. We are now back up to 10mile circuits in the rehab process. And she is an experienced cyclist.


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## John the Canuck (27 Jul 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Sounds like the problem is you and not the club



why..? because she asks the question

''We live in a hilly part of the country so I am not unfamiliar with hard work. Why would a club promote this route *as a beginner choice*?

you need to get your manners in order


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## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

Erm, ok so I have a problem.

Fair enough then, that's told me.


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## Hip Priest (27 Jul 2014)

I think it's a bit unfair to criticise a club without even having ridden with them. If you'd done the beginners route as a club ride, you'd probably have had a ride leader looking out for you and advising you on pacing...etc


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Jul 2014)

John the Canuck said:


> why..? because she asks the question
> 
> ''We live in a hilly part of the country so I am not unfamiliar with hard work. Why would a club promote this route *as a beginner choice*?
> 
> you need to get your manners in order


What else would be expected in a hilly area? Someone somewhere within the club will have planned that route and/or distance purposely.

The last time I led our beginners run there were at least 2 climbs well over 14%, even the 20stone guy got up them amazingly quickly


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## coffeejo (27 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> Erm, ok so I have a problem.
> 
> Fair enough then, that's told me.


Chalk it up to experience and have another go when you're fitter. That's always an amazing sense of accomplishment.


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## DCLane (27 Jul 2014)

My club's beginner route, which I did with my 10 year-old yesterday, is a 24 mile route which involves some hills but not many. That'd be what I expect.


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## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

I totally expected hills, it's the Dales!

I did not expect to encounter 3 hills which were so steep a that I had to dismount on a ride billed as good for beginners! Not every road in the area goes uphill so severely (2 other riders were pushing, 3 other riders we encountered commented about the hill we had come up which they were about to descend). But thanks for the comments, I realise that in the eyes of club riders I'm barely off stabilisers. I'll stick to riding by myself up the hills near my home.


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## coffeejo (27 Jul 2014)

I think the word "beginner" can be misleading.


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## Kestevan (27 Jul 2014)

To be fair to the OP a 24 mile hilly route would be a lot for a true beginner. 

On the other hand I suspect that the club views a beginner as someone with decent fitness who has ridden a fair amount and is now looking to begin riding more seriously, as such the distance can be seen as a decent run.

On the gripping hand - living round here (or the Dales) planning a route that _doesn't _ include steep hills is almost impossible, especially if you're trying to avoid main roads/towns/traffic as most club runs do. In that context 14% is not particularly steep and the Dales is overrun with such gradients.


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## screenman (27 Jul 2014)

coffeejo said:


> I think the word "beginner" can be misleading.



They certainly were in this case.


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## Apollonius (27 Jul 2014)

I don't think there is any negative view of the club implied. 

Clubs, perhaps can learn that in today's inclusive world a "beginner" can cover a wide range of people. We had a 24 year old on a 22 mile beginner ride last week and there was no problem. On the other hand, our club (Tuesday daytimes) is more used to recruiting retired people, and 22 miles is a huge ride for them. 

If we believe cycling is for all, then clubs and other promoters of the sport need to make sure they have all ages and abilities in mind when they recommend a routs of beginners. 
The Sky rides do this very well. Many of their beginner rides are less than 10km and the ride the OP describes would, rightly in my view, be classed as "demanding".


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## ColinJ (27 Jul 2014)

coffeejo said:


> Chalk it up to experience and have another go when you're fitter. That's always an amazing sense of accomplishment.


Indeed!

In the mean time, make sure you have low enough gears on your bike and use all of them if you have to. If you can get up a 7% hill, then you should be able to get up a 14% hill by using a gear ratio 50% lower, as long as you can still balance going at half the speed.

I think I live not too far from you. It is not an easy area for inexperienced cyclists to ride in, except for busy valley roads which are not appealing.

I found an old diary of mine from 1990, the year after I started cycling again. I was typically riding only 10-15 miles, and the steepest hills that I usually tackled were about 8-10% and I struggled on them. I didn't really embrace the hills until I bought a new bike which had a triple chainset.


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## Hip Priest (27 Jul 2014)

Apollonius said:


> I don't think there is any negative view of the club implied.
> 
> Clubs, perhaps can learn that in today's inclusive world a "beginner" can cover a wide range of people. We had a 24 year old on a 22 mile beginner ride last week and there was no problem. On the other hand, our club (Tuesday daytimes) is more used to recruiting retired people, and 22 miles is a huge ride for them.
> 
> ...



Good points. My local club has a bit on the website about the required level of fitness to attend a club ride, which is helpful. When I was a true beginner, I found the 5 mile flat ride to work an ordeal.


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## Cycleops (27 Jul 2014)

In my experience most clubs, not just cycling ones, are a platform for jealously, petty infighting, rivalry, power struggles and outright violence. I'm with Groucho on this one.


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## screenman (27 Jul 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I my experience most clubs, not just cycling ones, are a platform for jealously, petty infighting, rivalry, power struggles and outright violence. I'm with Groucho on this one.



I would say that you have not got much in the way of cycling club experience to talk about then. I have always found the opposite, maybe it is you and me and not the club.


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## byegad (27 Jul 2014)

I think there is an element in cycling that does it to humiliate others. I took part in a 'Medium/Slow' ride at York Rally a few years ago. It was a ride I'd done at least 8 times before from the Rally, but this time a new Leader and about 15 young people arrived at the start in a club kit. More than 50 people set out, fewer than 20 returned as part of the ride.
Unsurprisingly the run out to the lunch stop was littered with people stopped on the side of the road that we never saw again. I was nearly 30 minutes behind the 'Leader' into the stop. On the way back despite taking a couple of short cuts I was 10 minutes behind him. The previous leader set a steady pace and if we had stragglers he'd slow or stop. The new guy was out to drop people, and he did it very ruthlessly. A real off-putter to newbie cyclists, and if the York Rally MkII manages to take off I'll not ride with the same leader again. He's not interested in keeping together and presumably dines out on the number of people he dropped. 
By contrast on another York Rally I took part in a ride organised by the British Human Power Club. A lady on a Hybrid plus child on an MTB joined us and very quickly it became obvious they were totally unable to keep any kind of pace. A BHPC member talked to them and they, led by this member, did the same ride as the rest, but at a much reduced pace.


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## Herzog (27 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> ...I found a 23 mile circular route near home which I uploaded from a cycle club's website (via MMR). It was billed as a "beginner/returner" route, nothing too challenging...





BearPear said:


> ...I did not expect to encounter 3 hills which were so steep a that I had to dismount on a ride billed as good for beginners...



I'm confused (it doesn't take much ) - but you saw the route before the ride (1st quote)...but were then surprised by the hills (2nd quote) which you'd already seen on the route map on MMR?


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## Alembicbassman (27 Jul 2014)

The CTC (Cycle Touring Club) rides are good for beginners, they average out at around 12-14mph and your local group will have several ride starts and some have women only groups. My local CTC rides are about 75/25% men/women split for the mixed group. You don't need a touring bike to ride with them, any road/hybrid bike will do.

Some road clubs are better than others, one in my area is racing oriented 22+ mph for chain gang and not much less for social rides, the other is 15-17mph average (depending on terrain) for social rides and no chain gangs. I joined the latter.


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## Hip Priest (27 Jul 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I my experience most clubs, not just cycling ones, are a platform for jealously, petty infighting, rivalry, power struggles and outright violence. I'm with Groucho on this one.



In my experience, cycling clubs are a platform for taking part in cycling-related activities and meeting like-minded people.

You get the odd disagreement or personality clash, but that's human nature. By and large it's all quite harmonious.


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## briantrumpet (27 Jul 2014)

I think the thing to remember is that clubs cover quite a spectrum, and it's unrealistic to expect all clubs to be able to provide rides for all abilities. Maybe the 'beginner' tag here is a little misleading, I'd admit. We call ours 'Intro Rides', and give a suggested speed for the published route, and though the route is 32 miles, it was the flattest one we could do on not-too-busy roads. But having said that if someone turns up in flip-flops on a BMX bike, we might politely suggest that they need a different sort of intro, as the club hasn't got the manpower to run 10-mile rides at 10mph. (And we're not very good at stunts either.)

The thing to do is to ask a few questions, and see if what a club does fits in with where you are. If it doesn't, then look for another club or group.


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## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

Herzog - yes I saw it on MMR, but I looked at the map and read the comments on the club website. I'm not great with the elevation data - it can look less brutal depending on the scale. It certainly looked more ferocious on my Strava at the end than on MMR. But then that's probably another thing I'm particularly bad at. (yes I'm sulking now, some of these comments are...unfriendly.)


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## Herzog (27 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> Herzog - yes I saw it on MMR, but I looked at the map and read the comments on the club website. I'm not great with the elevation data - it can look less brutal depending on the scale. It certainly looked more ferocious on my Strava at the end than on MMR. But then that's probably another thing I'm particularly bad at. (yes I'm sulking now, some of these comments are...unfriendly.)



Perhaps get some lower gearing and give it another shot. It would be shame to have your only experience with the club end on such a sour note.


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## Cush (27 Jul 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I my experience most clubs, not just cycling ones, are a platform for jealously, petty infighting, rivalry, power struggles and outright violence. I'm with Groucho on this one.


If it helps the OP walking groups are just as bad. I remember one older leader taking an allegedly easy walk in Ennerdale. It was only when we got near the start of the route to Pillar and noticed that he had unpacked a rope that some of us more experienced walkers realized what he was up to. Result was a quick about turn and some sharp words. Leaders reason for change of route was "he" thought he would show the new walkers with us some "real walking" Seen plenty of infighting as well and the Romans could have learnt about back stabbing from some groups I have been in. Now I prefer a quiet life and avoid any group walking or cycling


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## cyberknight (27 Jul 2014)

byegad said:


> I think there is an element in cycling that does it to humiliate others. I took part in a 'Medium/Slow' ride at York Rally a few years ago. It was a ride I'd done at least 8 times before from the Rally, but this time a new Leader and about 15 young people arrived at the start in a club kit. More than 50 people set out, fewer than 20 returned as part of the ride.
> Unsurprisingly the run out to the lunch stop was littered with people stopped on the side of the road that we never saw again. I was nearly 30 minutes behind the 'Leader' into the stop. On the way back despite taking a couple of short cuts I was 10 minutes behind him. The previous leader set a steady pace and if we had stragglers he'd slow or stop. The new guy was out to drop people, and he did it very ruthlessly. A real off-putter to newbie cyclists, and if the York Rally MkII manages to take off I'll not ride with the same leader again. He's not interested in keeping together and presumably dines out on the number of people he dropped.
> By contrast on another York Rally I took part in a ride organised by the British Human Power Club. A lady on a Hybrid plus child on an MTB joined us and very quickly it became obvious they were totally unable to keep any kind of pace. A BHPC member talked to them and they, led by this member, did the same ride as the rest, but at a much reduced pace.


Sounds like an rarse hole !
Merica operates a non drop policy on the medium and slow rides with only the fast group/chain gangs stating from the start that after the cake stop the pace will pick up and if you get dropped your dropped but the average speeds for rides is listed and club leaders easily contacted .


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## the_mikey (27 Jul 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I my experience most clubs, not just cycling ones, are a platform for jealously, petty infighting, rivalry, power struggles and outright violence. I'm with Groucho on this one.



Those problems come with people, it's not unique to cycling clubs!


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## Profpointy (27 Jul 2014)

Herzog said:


> Perhaps get some lower gearing and give it another shot. It would be shame to have your only experience with the club end on such a sour note.



I'm inclined to agree - I'd want a bike geared low enough so I'd never have to walk up anything - I might not be able to keep up, but never have to walk up. Sounds more like wrong gears than wrong club.


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## BearPear (27 Jul 2014)

[QUOTE 3200678, member: 30090"]You're the best BP, never mind the fact that you looked at the profile, went on the ride and then moaned that there were hills.[/QUOTE]

My question wasn't "am I am idiot" but thanks for pointing out that I am in such a delightful passive/aggressive manner.


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## GrasB (27 Jul 2014)

As has been mentioned one thing you have to be careful of is the type of club you're riding with. I imagine what happened here was you were going faster on the easier sections than you normally do so had far less in the tank & so ended up walking. Within reason the route is immaterial, as long as you have low enough gears on your bike, it's the way it's paced by the ride leader that makes it hard. I can take a route from an Alpine all-day tour ride for beginners into a tortuous training ride simply by chaining the pace of the ride. I'd try a different club & make sure the have a no-drop or buddy rider policy.


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## coffeejo (27 Jul 2014)

The OP wasn't on a club run but following one of their routes.


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## welsh dragon (27 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> My question wasn't "am I am idiot" but thanks for pointing out that I am in such a delightful passive/aggressive manner.



Your not an idiot, and as some posters have said, take no notice of them. We are all different, and have different abilities. Personally I would find my own route thats as flat as you can find. Increase your fitness at your own pace, and the start adding some inclines slowly, then add some hills. As someone else said, riding is a marathon, not a race. Take things steady and at your own pace. You'll soon be going up hills with the best of them, and good luck.


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## oldfatfool (27 Jul 2014)

Whereabouts are you? There are a couple of climbs coming out of the Dent valley that have had me considering shanks pony. No point killing yourself, walking is nothing to be ashamed of and I have no hesitation in doing so myself especially when the front wheel starts lifting. 

I tried a club once but I don't like following 3" off someones wheel and prefer my own pace wether that is faster or slower than expected. Forum rides are a completely different kettle of fish where people are more tolerant and willing to wait at the top of climbs or hang back to give encouragement.


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## cd365 (27 Jul 2014)

Wow, there are some really horrible posts in this thread.


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## AlanTh (27 Jul 2014)

A lot of clubs are about leaders, organisers, committees, power, showing off, egos ...

Where on earth would they be without followers?

Up their own ars..s


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## Cycleops (27 Jul 2014)

the_mikey said:


> Those problems come with people, it's not unique to cycling clubs!


Exactly!


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## screenman (27 Jul 2014)

oldfatfool said:


> Whereabouts are you? There are a couple of climbs coming out of the Dent valley that have had me considering shanks pony. No point killing yourself, walking is nothing to be ashamed of and I have no hesitation in doing so myself especially when the front wheel starts lifting.
> 
> I tried a club once but I don't like following 3" off someones wheel and prefer my own pace wether that is faster or slower than expected. Forum rides are a completely different kettle of fish where people are more tolerant and willing to wait at the top of climbs or hang back to give encouragement.



There will be 30+ club rides from our club alone this week, some will only have 1 rider on. Many of you I can see by reading your posts have not experienced what most clubs have to offer.


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## Dave 123 (27 Jul 2014)

Bearpear,

Don't waste any more time on it.
Get back on your bike and wear a smile!


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## Cuchilo (27 Jul 2014)

Ive hit a few hills that have me question myself but ive gone back and slayed them . They are hard work but now you know " that " hill is tough and what it has to throw at you , you can go back and train on it until you slap its stupid hilly face 
I hated hills a year ago and after a few weeks off due to work I am dreading hitting them again incase I struggle . I will probably be ok but wont care if others see me struggling .
Hills are a personal thing so just do them at your own pace and what you feel good with . Trying to keep up with someone on a hill is just madness !


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## DCLane (28 Jul 2014)

BearPear said:


> My question wasn't "am I am idiot" but thanks for pointing out that I am.


 
I don't see anything that would identify you as an 'idiot' from trying a ride and struggling. You're someone who's wanting to learn and been put off by a ride identified as a beginner one.

It'll depend on the club; I joined mine because the other local ones didn't offer what I was looking for as they focused on high-speed, long-distance rides which only were held on Sundays.

There will be something local to you, even if it's a Sky Ride / CTC-type one. Whereabouts in the Dales are you and some of us who are more local might be able to help? One of ColinJ's shorter forum rides might be suitable as well.

Edit: I've seen you're near Haworth. What about the following, noting that I don't know which club's ride you tried:


South Craven Wheelers, who've specific ladies rides: http://www.southcraven.co.uk/womens-section/
East Bradford CC: http://www.eastbradfordcyclingclub.blogspot.co.uk/
Bronte Wheelers, in Keighley: http://www.brontewheelers.org/home.htm
Calderdale CTC: http://calderdalectc.org.uk/
Halifax Imps: http://www.halifax-imps.org.uk/index.htm
Condor Road Club (http://condorroadclub.blogspot.co.uk/) and Pedalsport (http://pedalsportclub.wordpress.com/ ) are more 'race' focused.


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## ColinJ (28 Jul 2014)

DCLane said:


> Whereabouts in the Dales are you and some of us who are more local might be able to help? One of ColinJ's shorter forum rides might be suitable as well.


I have a vague memory of suggesting a few routes to BearPear when she joined CC about 5 years ago?

IIRC, she lives somewhere in the Keighley area and so really is surrounded by hills. The Aire Valley itself isn't my favourite place to cycle, though the nearby hillsides are great.

Even my shorter forum rides tend to be double the distance and hilliness of the offending 23-miler mentioned in the OP, so I don't think they would be much help! 

I think low gears and taking one's time are the immediate answer to the problem of steep hills. Fitness sorts the problem out longer term.

A friend of mine always got off and walked up a short local stretch of 14% but I finally managed to persuade her today that the smallest chainring of her triple would actually help, and she got up the hill. She was slow, but chuffed that she had done it. On previous rides on that climb, her legs had seized up when she still had more than half her gears in reserve.


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## BearPear (28 Jul 2014)

Thanks for the constructive replies!
Yes I have a triple, and yes I was in granny!

I will stick to riding with my husband who himself was amazed that the ride was billed as good for beginners. I will also pester my hill-avoiding friend and we can practice a bit more together - our own club a-deux! We will get t-shirts and everything!


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## cd365 (28 Jul 2014)

BearPear you should try and plot your own cycle friendly route, use one of the mapping websites, mapmyride.com for example.


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## ColinJ (28 Jul 2014)

cd365 said:


> BearPear you should try and plot your own cycle friendly route, use one of the mapping websites, mapmyride.com for example.


If you like, I will plot one for you. Tell me where you would like to start from and what distance you would like to do and I'll see what I can come up with.

There is a 19-20 mile loop from Hebden Bridge that I would recommend but the road down into Mytholmroyd is shut, which makes the end more complicated. If you were willing to use bits of the Calder Valley Greenway/Cycleway then that would make things simpler. It has a gravelly section with some potholes but that only lasts about 100 yards. Another section becomes muddy after a lot of rain but should be in good condition at the moment because of the sunny weather. There is the long Cragg Vale climb to tackle, but that only averages 3.4% with the shortish steep bit in the middle at about 8%.


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## jay clock (28 Jul 2014)

THHNET seems to epitomise what is negative about clubs. Just plain rude. And a potential member lost.

I went out with a club who stated that no-one would be left behind. I am a fit and average cyclist. I had a puncture half way round and since they were runnign behind time due to a previous one the leader just said "you know the way back don't you?" and by the time I replied "er no...." they had disappeared in the dust. On a previous ride I had stopped at the top of a climb and greeted a long standing member with "lovely day isn;t it?" to which he simply stared straight through me and did not reply. 

My solution is organise my own mini club (not a real club just a group of friends). typically 4-5 of us with very clear timing expectations of 23-24kmh average. 

best of luck PB


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## cd365 (28 Jul 2014)

ColinJ said:


> If you like, I will plot one for you. Tell me where you would like to start from and what distance you would like to do and I'll see what I can come up with.
> .


This sort of thing is why I like this site and keep coming back, even though over the years there have been a few clowns who have made me think about quitting CC. But there are more good ones than bad.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jul 2014)

jay clock said:


> THHNET seems to epitomise what is negative about clubs. Just plain rude. And a potential member lost.
> 
> I went out with a club who stated that no-one would be left behind. I am a fit and average cyclist. I had a puncture half way round and since they were runnign behind time due to a previous one the leader just said "you know the way back don't you?" and by the time I replied "er no...." they had disappeared in the dust. On a previous ride I had stopped at the top of a climb and greeted a long standing member with "lovely day isn;t it?" to which he simply stared straight through me and did not reply.
> 
> ...


Except the issue isn't about a club.


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## Apollonius (28 Jul 2014)

With respect, I think this issue is very much about a club, or clubs if you like. 
What are clubs for? 
I belong to four clubs. One cycling, one sailing, one cricket and one skiing. The only one with a clear mission statement is the sailing club. "The club exists to promote and encourage the sport of sailing." or something like that.
Now, I realise that cyclists are individualists and organising them is like herding cats, but it is not unreasonable to suggest that a cycling club might have a similar sort of raison d'etre.
It is quite possible that the club the OP refers to has some sort of purpose of that sort in mind. Otherwise, why publish suggested beginners' routes at all.
The sailing club recruits new members at all levels and for all abilities. We have links to a local special school and superb disabled facilities. The club is open to local schools, scout groups, etc and has been honoured for this. The cricket club trains new members from the age of 7 with ECB qualified coaches. The ski club also has training programmes for all ages and ability levels. 
The cycling club has none of these things. You might argue it is more like a walking club - not needing to teach people to walk.
What should a cycling club do? Just provide for existing cyclists, or reach out?


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jul 2014)

Apollonius said:


> What should a cycling club do? Just provide for existing cyclists, or reach out?


 
I belong to a very nice club. It has kids' rides, beginners' rides, rides for slower people, all the way up to serious guys with racing licenses plus MTB nutcases. It "reaches out".

But I also know of other clubs in my area that are much more racing-focused. I often see them whizz past me. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They are different animals. 

I don't think there's an onus on a club to "reach out" if it doesn't want to.

As to the OP, it sounds like the club has mis-labelled one of their published rides.


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## Longshot (28 Jul 2014)

BP - I can understand the point that you're making. As a relative beginner, I've considered clubs in my local area but have not yet pulled the trigger. Normally, reading their 'about us' section or something similar gives a better idea of whether they're an all out racing club or take a more sedate approach - that can certainly dictate their attitude towards what a beginner's ride may be! 

Also, please don't take some of the harsh responses to heart. I've found CC is a great resource with many helpful and friendly people on it. Sadly, there's also quite a few who can't seem to help being superior and/or contrary just to feed their own egos.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jul 2014)

Anyone willing to consider that the club is not at fault?  Mainly as they had absolutely nothing to do with the ride in question.


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## Hip Priest (28 Jul 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Anyone willing to consider that the club is not at fault?  Mainly as they had absolutely nothing to do with the ride in question.



I don't think the club was at fault. Although it feels heretical to post a slightly negative comment on this thread.

As I said earlier, the OP makes a lot of assumptions about the attitudes of the club and it's members, without even having contacted them or joined a club ride. A bit unfair if you ask me.

I'm sure most of us have bitten off more than we can chew at some point in our cycling lives. I certainly have. You just have to put it down to experience.


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## Rob3rt (28 Jul 2014)

AlanTh said:


> A lot of clubs are about leaders, organisers, committees, power, showing off, egos ...
> 
> Where on earth would they be without followers?
> 
> Up their own ars..s



Leaders and organisers, yup, people giving up their time and leading rides and organising events for the good of others.

Committees, yes, usually a small collection of people who do the leading and organising, in their own time, for the good if others usually for next to zero gratitude and usually being critised for "doing nothing" by people who truly contribute nothing, despite all of the hours they dedicate.

Power? Hardly the UCI!

Showing off and egos, sometimes!


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## GmanUK65 (28 Jul 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> What else would be expected in a hilly area? Someone somewhere within the club will have planned that route and/or distance purposely.
> 
> The last time I led our beginners run there were at least 2 climbs well over 14%, even the 20stone guy got up them amazingly quickly


The replies you are making on putting people down in this thread could make members paranoid to ask questions. If you are not going to give good advice then you shouldn't bother.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jul 2014)

GmanUK65 said:


> The replies you are making on putting people down in this thread could make members paranoid to ask questions. If you are not going to give good advice then you shouldn't bother.


Where are they? Did I miss an earlier posting of yours offering advice?


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## GmanUK65 (28 Jul 2014)

I know people are saying whether 23 miles is too long for a beginner but would that not depend on the type of bike you are riding. If riding a road bike, then 23 miles is adequate for a beginner, but if riding a hybrid or mountain bike then 23 miles may be too far. For example, before last year I was riding a hybrid for a couple of years and the maximum I could ride was 40 miles before I bonked out. When I rode my road bike for the first time I managed over 60 miles and did not bonk out. So, this may be proving my theory.


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## GmanUK65 (28 Jul 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Where are they? Did I miss an earlier posting of yours offering advice?


just reading the posts and I do not like your attitude. I noticed last year in a post (I dont read every post so I cannot remember which one) and it was the same sort of attitude. I dont know, mabe its just you.

P.S. I havnt seen any of your posts giving good advice either.
P.S.S. If I read a post and I cannot give any advice, then I dont give any advice. I dont claim to be an expert in cycling.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jul 2014)

Ahh last year, don't remember that either


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## GmanUK65 (28 Jul 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Ahh last year, don't remember that either


I have just tried to find some examples by searching for your name, but you have put a block on people looking at your profile. For obvious reasons I think I know why you have done this. This also shows you have no intension in becoming friends (so to speak) with any member, not that any member would want to be your friend anyway.


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## welsh dragon (28 Jul 2014)

I have heard people talk about some excellent clubs all around the UK. Perhaps because of where bear pear lives IE lots of hills, the clubs in those areas naturally incorporate hills as part of they're rides. It would be natural I suppose. I live in a very hilly area, and I pick my own routes mainly because I am absolutely rubbish at hills anyway.

I quite enjoy trying to find new country lanes to cycle down, and I have found one that I can ride to my hearts content to increase my fitness levels. I doubt I will ever be good enough to join a club, but thats all right. I'm having fun doing my own thing, and im sure bear pear will do the same. Well done for getting on a bike when so many don't bother doing anything.


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## BearPear (28 Jul 2014)

ColinJ said:


> If you like, I will plot one for you. Tell me where you would like to start from and what distance you would like to do and I'll see what I can come up with.
> 
> There is a 19-20 mile loop from Hebden Bridge that I would recommend but the road down into Mytholmroyd is shut, which makes the end more complicated. If you were willing to use bits of the Calder Valley Greenway/Cycleway then that would make things simpler. It has a gravelly section with some potholes but that only lasts about 100 yards. Another section becomes muddy after a lot of rain but should be in good condition at the moment because of the sunny weather. There is the long Cragg Vale climb to tackle, but that only averages 3.4% with the shortish steep bit in the middle at about 8%.



Thanks for the offer Colin, but I have found a few on MMR already (and followed without incident up until this weekend!) Plus Mr BP is a canny rider, often be found round your way on a Sunday morning, and he won't send me up monster hills without prior warning.


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## Smurfy (28 Jul 2014)

'Beginner' means many different things to many different people. I very much doubt the club was setting out to give 'beginners' a hard time. Why not ride the route a few times on your own or with your partner? Your strength will soon build up to the same level as the 'beginners' that the club has aimed the ride at.


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## Moodyman (28 Jul 2014)

Most clubs round where BearPear lives - Leeds/Bradford area - are of the racing pedigree where even a beginner label means you have to be a strong rider. I approached several with enquiries and found they weren't my kinda cycling. I then found some local people who organised more leisurely rides and they were just the ticket.


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## Flick of the Elbow (29 Jul 2014)

Horses for courses. Some clubs are for racing only, some for touring. Some are on a mission to reach out to beginners, some aren't. Some have corporate organisation structures, some are informal. All are perfectly valid and acceptable.


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## screenman (29 Jul 2014)

Moodyman said:


> Most clubs round where BearPear lives - Leeds/Bradford area - are of the racing pedigree where even a beginner label means you have to be a strong rider. I approached several with enquiries and found they weren't my kinda cycling. I then found some local people who organised more leisurely rides and they were just the ticket.



Wrong, many of the clubs in that area have members who do not ever get above 12mph.


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## GmanUK65 (29 Jul 2014)

screenman said:


> Wrong, many of the clubs in that area have members who do not ever get above 12mph.


I wish there was a club like that around my way (Newcastle Upon Tyne). The lowest average they expect is 16mph. I can do this at a distance of 20 - 25 miles but do not know if I could do it for 50 - 60 miles which is the lowest distance they do


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## Labradorofperception (29 Jul 2014)

Have a look at the Ilkley CC website. They have a good beginners section and their clubs runs include a C group of varying abilities, ages and aims. They tend to be a bit more laid back and usually split into a couple of groups depending on who wants to put the miles in and who wants to eat cakes.


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## Herzog (29 Jul 2014)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wish there was a club like that around my way (Newcastle Upon Tyne). The lowest average they expect is 16mph. I can do this at a distance of 20 - 25 miles but do not know if I could do it for 50 - 60 miles which is the lowest distance they do


 
Check out North Tyneside Riders - they do a load of different runs.


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## vickster (29 Jul 2014)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wish there was a club like that around my way (Newcastle Upon Tyne). The lowest average they expect is 16mph. I can do this at a distance of 20 - 25 miles but do not know if I could do it for 50 - 60 miles which is the lowest distance they do


CTC http://www.ctc.org.uk/local-groups


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## screenman (29 Jul 2014)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wish there was a club like that around my way (Newcastle Upon Tyne). The lowest average they expect is 16mph. I can do this at a distance of 20 - 25 miles but do not know if I could do it for 50 - 60 miles which is the lowest distance they do



There will be one, you have just not looked hard enough. Most clubs have members who organise small or slower rides to suit their abilities.


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## Rob3rt (29 Jul 2014)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wish there was a club like that around my way (Newcastle Upon Tyne). The lowest average they expect is 16mph. I can do this at a distance of 20 - 25 miles but do not know if I could do it for 50 - 60 miles which is the lowest distance they do



There is generally a lot going on in a club besides the typical rides listed on their websites.


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## MarkF (29 Jul 2014)

Bear Pear, was it that snooty Ilkley lot?  I'll live near you, I used to use the old Air Valley road to get used to distances and do short climbs off it in a loop and back down, East Morton, Silsden, Bradley etc FWIW I don't think your description of the ride is what I'd expect as a beginner.

I'd like to join East Bradford CC but I can't stand their jerseys.


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## BearPear (29 Jul 2014)

MarkF - it wasn't Ilkley, but we saw a few out & about who were very cheery! I'm glad that you think that my description of the ride wasn't the norm for beginners - I was beginning to think I was the unreasonable one.

East Bradford CC has been around quite a long time, but that's no excuse not to revamp their shirts...


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## GmanUK65 (29 Jul 2014)

Herzog said:


> Check out North Tyneside Riders - they do a load of different runs.


Thank you for that I will check them out


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