# Hand Ache...



## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

I have just done my first 40km mtb ride (off road) and all went well except the palm of my hands hurt as I was putting a bit too much weight on them..
How do I cure this please..

Cheers


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## lulubel (9 Jan 2013)

Put less weight on them.

"Heavy feet, light hands."


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## Kies (9 Jan 2013)

Try putting one hand behind your back (when safe to do so) and open/close it for 20 seconds. Then do the other.
As you say,your putting too much weight forward,which will press on your ulnar nerve and give you numbness and pain.
Think about addingsome bar ends to the mtb,so your hand position changes.
I should get better with more miles and fitness


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## lulubel (9 Jan 2013)

Also, I'm not sure what grips you've got on your bike. Mine came with Cube's own ergo grips, and they're super comfy. My OH's came with round grips, so she swapped them for Ergon GP1 after a couple of rides, and said that made a lot of difference to her hand comfort.

(I've never had any real issues with hand comfort, though, even when I was using the hard, plastic grips on my cheapie MTB.)


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## dan_bo (9 Jan 2013)

P'raps a riser bar/shorter stem combo to shift your weight a little further back....?


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## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

Kies said:


> Try putting one hand behind your back (when safe to do so) and open/close it for 20 seconds. Then do the other.
> As you say,your putting too much weight forward,which will press on your ulnar nerve and give you numbness and pain.
> Think about addingsome bar ends to the mtb,so your hand position changes.
> I should get better with more miles and fitness


 
Bar ends had crossed my mind as a lot of guys over here seem to have them.. and I will be at evanscycles not this week end but next so I could buy then..


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## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Also, I'm not sure what grips you've got on your bike. Mine came with Cube's own ergo grips, and they're super comfy. My OH's came with round grips, so she swapped them for Ergon GP1 after a couple of rides, and said that made a lot of difference to her hand comfort.
> 
> (I've never had any real issues with hand comfort, though, even when I was using the hard, plastic grips on my cheapie MTB.)


 
Again.. this could be a good option and the Ergon do have good reviews.. but the grips that are on my bike seem a bit spikey.


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## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

dan_bo said:


> P'raps a riser bar/shorter stem combo to shift your weight a little further back....?


 
If the other ideas dont cure the problem I will have a look at your idea..

Cheers


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (9 Jan 2013)

I'll second the Ergon Grips GP1 - used them on all my mtb's and my tourer (I have a bad left wrist which needs protecting after 11 ops on it).
I have also found the SJS Ergo Control Bar ends much more useful than other bar ends because the allow for a little extra hand position changes... the two combined give something like 4 or 5 different positions to hold the bars which helps me considerably. We had not come across those bar ends until we did the 12 month tour and now love them despite their price, and they have lasted really well.


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## numbnuts (9 Jan 2013)

I use the Cane Creek ergo grip II bar ends I find them very nice


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## mickle (9 Jan 2013)

Mountain bike bars (and by extension -'Hybrid' bars) have a 'sweep' (the backward angle of the grip section)of 6 degrees or less which encourages the use of the 'attack position' - a riding position which is characterised by an elbows out riding style. It allows for flex in the arms to absorb bumps and woops in the trail and is useful when there's a requirement to move around the bike - shifting the body's CofG forwards for uphills and off the back of the saddle for steep downs. Whether 'flat' or riser, what a mountain bike bar finds difficult to deliver is comfort. For comfort you require a bar with a much greater backsweep of the type which some - particularly Euro style - city bikes come equipped with. But a high back-sweep bar doesn't allow for much position shifting, 'body English' as the Amercans call it, and they limit how far you can turn the bars before they clash with your knees. Flat bars cannot be comfy if used with straight arms (and a too long cockpit can also cause wrist probs in a rider forced to adopt straight arms just to reach the bars). And often, even fresh from the shop, bikes come set up with the bar's sweep poorly aligned, forcing the wrists into an even less natural angle. The sweep should line up with the forearms. Watch out too for brake levers which are too high, they should be angled somwhere close to 45 degrees from horizontal. You want close to a straight line through the sweep, the wrist and the lower arm.

More and more mountain bikers, particularly the long distance off-road touring chaps are using bars with a lot more sweep.

I might start a campaign against bars with inadequate sweep.


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## SquareDaff (9 Jan 2013)

As said by others here - buy bar extensions to allow more than one hand position - or occassionally shift your weight on the saddle therefore eliviating the pressure on your hands.

Used to have the same problem when riding my hybrid long distances (i.e. 30-40 miles - discomfort would set in around the 15 mile mark). Never did manage to totally overcome it - just minimise it. It's never been a problem on the road bike.


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## mickle (9 Jan 2013)

SquareDaff said:


> As said by others here - buy bar extensions to allow more than one hand position - or occassionally shift your weight on the saddle therefore eliviating the pressure on your hands.
> 
> Used to have the same *problem* when *riding* my *hybrid* *long distance**s* (i.e. 30-40 miles - *discomfort* would set in around the 15 mile mark). Never did manage to totally overcome it - just minimise it. It's never been a problem on the road bike.


Like I said...


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## lulubel (9 Jan 2013)

mickle said:


> *Mountain bike bars (and by extension -'Hybrid' bars) have a 'sweep' (the backward angle of the grip section)of 6 degrees or less which encourages the use of the 'attack position' - a riding position which is characterised by an elbows out riding style.* It allows for flex in the arms to absorb bumps and woops in the trail and is useful when there's a requirement to move around the bike - shifting the body's CofG forwards for uphills and off the back of the saddle for steep downs. *Whether 'flat' or riser, what a mountain bike bar finds difficult to deliver is comfort. For comfort you require a bar with a much greater backsweep of the type which some - particularly Euro style - city bikes come equipped with.* But a high back-sweep bar doesn't allow for much position shifting, 'body English' as the Amercans call it, and they limit how far you can turn the bars before they clash with your knees. *Flat bars cannot be comfy if used with straight arms (and a too long cockpit can also cause wrist probs in a rider forced to adopt straight arms just to reach the bars).* And often, even fresh from the shop, bikes come set up with the bar's sweep poorly aligned, forcing the wrists into an even less natural angle.


 
From my experience, the parts I've bolded are particularly relevant.

As anyone who has ever read my "new bike" posts will know, I like a short cockpit. For that reason, both my old and current MTBs are tiny. The bars on the new one definitely have the 6 degrees or less of sweep that you described, whereas the old one has a lot more sweep. The old one was fine for just cruising along on the road, but as soon as I wanted to get my upper body lower and my elbows out, the bars started putting pressure on the outer edge of my hands. With my short cockpit, I find bars with less sweep more comfortable, but I can see how the opposite would be true if I was riding a bike with a longer cockpit.


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## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

Just looked at the Cane Creek Ergo 11's and they look a good bet, not too keen on metal one's...


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## Pale Rider (9 Jan 2013)

What is the saddle height in relation to the height of the bars?

Perhaps I have short arms, but I much prefer the bars a little higher than the saddle.


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## tightwad (9 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I have just done my first 40km mtb ride (off road) and all went well except the palm of my hands hurt as I was putting a bit too much weight on them..
> How do I cure this please..
> 
> Cheers


 
Before buying anything I'd try changing the angle of the bars, try it, if that doesn't cure it change the position of seat on post, maybe alter height of seat. Less easy lose a bit of weight and maybe change the team you support so you're not holding your head in your hands despairing at where it's all going wrong.


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## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2013)

tightwad said:


> Before buying anything I'd try changing the angle of the bars, try it, if that doesn't cure it change the position of seat on post, maybe alter height of seat. Less easy lose a bit of weight and maybe change the team you support so you're not holding your head in your hands despairing at where it's all going wrong.


 
Its a bit like my old motor bike days when fiddling with the suspension.
I think to myself I'll just alter this, then that, then this, then you end up where you started from.. 

As for losing weight I only weigh 10st 7lbs cant lose any more..  and as for changing my team  to you...

PS.. The bars on my Trek bike aint got a lot of bend in them, so which way is best to turn them for better effect..

Cheers


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## mickle (9 Jan 2013)

tightwad said:


> Before buying anything ..... change the position of seat on post, maybe alter height of seat.


Sorry, but this is totally wrong advice. The saddle's position relative to the pedals is determined by the dimensions and proportions of the rider's legs, pelvis and feet. Only after you've established the proper place for the saddle do you locate the bars in the desired position. You don't move the saddle to remedy an illlocated handlebar - you move the bar.


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## tightwad (9 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Its a bit like my old motor bike days when fiddling with the suspension.
> I think to myself I'll just alter this, then that, then this, then you end up where you started from..
> 
> As for losing weight I only weigh 10st 7lbs cant lose any more..  and as for changing my team  to you...
> ...


 
Without seeing the exact geometry, knowing the size of frame and your height - hard to say but it sounds like you are putting too much weight on the bars throught the arms which could be reduced in one of two ways. Shift the seat forward a bit and/ or rotate the bars so the grips are closer to you. This will have the effect of making you sit up slightly more, thus putting more of the weight through your body and onto the seat.


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## tightwad (9 Jan 2013)

mickle said:


> Sorry, but ths is totally wrong advice. The saddle's position relative to the pedals is determined by the dimesions and proportions of the rider's legs, pelvis and feet. Only after you've established the proper place for the saddle do you locate the bars in the desired position. You dont move the saddle to remedy an illlocated handlebar - you move the bar.


 
Mmmm , if one is certain that the saddle is correctly sited then of course you are right but it is worth raising the question in case it's not, wouldn't you agree mickle me old mucker.


Also OP maybe a shorter head stem might be one solution,


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## mickle (9 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Its a bit like my old motor bike days when fiddling with the suspension.
> I think to myself I'll just alter this, then that, then this, then you end up where you started from..
> 
> As for losing weight I only weigh 10st 7lbs cant lose any more..  and as for changing my team  to you...
> ...


So that the backward angle of the bars is aligned with a line drawn through your forearm. 

Loosen off the shifters and brake levers first then undo the stem retention bolts. Ignoring the controls for the moment Rotate the bars in the stem until the backsweep lines up with your arms - usually back and up by about 45 degrees, but whatever's most comfortable. 

Stay tuned for next months lecture on brake and shifter optimisation.


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## mickle (9 Jan 2013)

tightwad said:


> Mmmm , if one is certain that the saddle is correctly sited then of course you are right but it is worth raising the question in case it's not, wouldn't you agree mickle me old mucker.
> 
> 
> Also OP maybe a shorter head stem might be one solution,


Old??! :-/


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## Drago (9 Jan 2013)

If the bike it set up properly, then try some fatter grips.


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## mrandmrspoves (10 Jan 2013)

......not mentioned yet and may not be relevant - also look at the angle the saddle is set at. If it is slightly nose down it will have the effect of tipping you forward so that you are trying to push yourself back from your handlebars. I also like thr Ergon grips as mentioned by others. The best answer of all though has to be to completely erradicate the problem buy a recumbent (as I recently did due to ongoing shoulder problems)....though I don't think I would be able to do much off road on it!


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

Just a few notes from me...

My road bike is set up just about right I'm just waiting for the SPD cleats to arrive and fit to the shoes and do a last adjustment on saddle height and all will be right with the bike.
But it will be more radical than the mountain bike... 

My mtb arrived with the saddle to low so I upt the height a tad for a trial run and the result was the saddle still too low but my hands didn't ache.. I've since altered the saddle to the right height and lowered the front of the saddle for better comfort and the it feels loads better but of course now my hands are aching were they weren't before..
I seem to get one bit right and that puts something else out...
Hope that makes sense.

PS.. Would it be worth resetting the saddle back to the middle again as I moved it back to get saddle adjustments right..


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Just a few notes from me...
> 
> My road bike is set up just about right I'm just waiting for the SPD cleats to arrive and fit to the shoes and do a last adjustment on saddle height and all will be right with the bike.
> But it will be more radical than the mountain bike...
> ...


 
Sounds exactly like the problems I usually have. I personally would start with rotating the bars if they have a little 'kink' in them to pull that closer to you and more in line with your arms as suggested above, though I suspect if the saddle height is now more than a couple of mm higher that this will not completely resolve the problem, but if it does alleviate it to some degree then my subsequent move would be a stem that just raises the bars slightly higher (my usualy approach with a bad wrist) and if you fancy new grips at any point then go for them...


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Sounds exactly like the problems I usually have. I personally would start with rotating the bars if they have a little 'kink' in them to pull that closer to you and more in line with your arms as suggested above, though I suspect if the saddle height is now more than a couple of mm higher that this will not completely resolve the problem, but if it does alleviate it to some degree then my subsequent move would be a stem that just raises the bars slightly higher (my usualy approach with a bad wrist) and if you fancy new grips at any point then go for them...


 
I just went outside to my bike and had a look at the bars and tried to picture moving them so they are nearer to me but I cant see it..
As it stands at the moment with the saddle in the right position the bars feel like they should be a bit nearer to me and a bit higher as well.
It might be worth a punt and try some bar ends... and or perhaps a new stem..

My logic is... You will spend a bit to get it right on a mtb bike but you will know for next time and just coming from a 450 off roader its still a load cheaper than a moto...

Cheers


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I just went outside to my bike and had a look at the bars and tried to picture moving them so they are nearer to me but I cant see it..
> As it stands at the moment with the saddle in the right position the bars feel like they should be a bit nearer to me and a bit higher as well.
> It might be worth a punt and try some bar ends... and or perhaps a new stem..
> 
> ...


 
Are the bars completely flat? like this





or more like this





PS - I have to leave in 30 mins for college so if I disappear mid conversation...


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Jan 2013)

If they are like the latter option, then if you were to imagine clamping them in the middle where the stem holds them, and then rotating them freely - consider it from the end on view, the area you hold would move around a clock face.... naturally if the area you hold is at 6, then the bars will feel lower than if they were at say 12 oclock becuase in relation to the seat (and everything else) they are lower. If the saddle is over to 9 oclock on this imaginary clock, then the area you hold being rotated around to say 10:30 then the area you hold will be ever so slightly closer to the seat and therefore reach is not as much... - suspect I can't find a diagram to say all that...

Edit: some bars (called riser bars) can have anything from 2.5cm to 5cm difference in where the bar clamps to the stem to where the hands rest on the bars


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Jan 2013)

Also bar ends in your situation are only currently going to make things worse - because where you are holding the bars will be made further away from the seat not closer, so will not acheive what you are after. The more I hear, the more I am convinced you need a shorter higher stem. Something I have to do with almost all of my bikes.


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Also bar ends in your situation are only currently going to make things worse - because where you are holding the bars will be made further away from the seat not closer, so will not acheive what you are after. The more I hear, the more I am convinced you need a shorter higher stem. Something I have to do with almost all of my bikes.


 
Loads of good info..
I will take some photo's of bike and stick on here to give a better view on things later today and with your pictures of the bars..
Not as straight as the first but not as bent as the second photo..

Laters


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## Motozulu (10 Jan 2013)

sounds like a low riser bar on the Trek?

Object is to rotate it so that it forces you to sit more upright (less weight on wrists/hands).

Unless the bike is the wrong size for you that should do it. My LBS set my saddle height whilst I had my MTB shoes on and said that was perfect for me - he said it was for me to fiddle with the bars til it felt right. Thought of going to your LBS and asking him to help you set the saddle to pedal height for you? if you still can't get the hands right after playing with your current bars then maybe a high riser and/or a shorter stem may be the next step.


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## lukesdad (10 Jan 2013)

Out of interest boon 51 are you feeling anything between your shoulder blades at the top of your back or the bottom of your neck ?


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

Just been out for a ride and done a few tests and this is what I found..

First normal riding with hands in the normal position.. Now I put my thumb and index finger together and rest them on the bars and that feels lots better, the other thing I tried was making a clench fist and resting my fist on the bars that also makes a lot of difference.
So I guessing the bars need to be raised up or raised up and back a bit..
Hope that makes sense..


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Out of interest boon 51 are you feeling anything between your shoulder blades at the top of your back or the bottom of your neck ?


 
No..every thing is fine with those bits..


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Just been out for a ride and done a few tests and this is what I found..
> 
> First normal riding with hands in the normal position.. Now I put my thumb and index finger together and rest them on the bars and that feels lots better, the other thing I tried was making a clench fist and resting my fist on the bars that also makes a lot of difference.
> So I guessing the bars need to be raised up or raised up and back a bit..
> Hope that makes sense..


Think you would be better of with a shorter stem with a rise...(you could consider a new set of 2" riser bars if you think there is a chance it will give you enough reach, depends what you are happier changing) 
But you need to know what sizes you are after. At a guess it should be 31.8mm and 31.8mm but this is no guarentee however I think most modern mtbs are that combination but you need to check and the easiest way is to measure what is there (talk about stating the bl***dy obvious - sorry). 
Now you will need to take a guess or find a helpful LBS and work out what distance shorter & higher you need. 

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/bbb-bhs-25-highrise-oversize-stem/ for example this comes in 70mm, 90mm and 110mm lengths with a 35 degree rise. You can get all sorts of different angles and lengths (not to mention diameters at each end..) just to really make life fun.

What do you have on there currently guessing flat 110mm? (measure centre to centre for length).


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## Boon 51 (10 Jan 2013)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Think you would be better of with a shorter stem with a rise...(you could consider a new set of 2" riser bars if you think there is a chance it will give you enough reach, depends what you are happier changing)
> But you need to know what sizes you are after. At a guess it should be 31.8mm and 31.8mm but this is no guarentee however I think most modern mtbs are that combination but you need to check and the easiest way is to measure what is there (talk about stating the bl***dy obvious - sorry).
> Now you will need to take a guess or find a helpful LBS and work out what distance shorter & higher you need.
> 
> ...


 
Your right it is 110mm and I have photo's but I have to go to Malaga airport to pick some friends up so I will post photo's asap..

Cheers..


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## Boon 51 (11 Jan 2013)

Here are the photos as promised


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## Boon 51 (11 Jan 2013)

Sorry about the writing on another post my pooter is playing up..
The seat on the first photo has to be raised about 5mm to 10mm but you can see how the bike is set up..


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (11 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Sorry about the writing on another post my pooter is playing up..
> The seat on the first photo has to be raised about 5mm to 10mm but you can see how the bike is set up..


 
Assuming that you have sufficient length left on the seat post to increase the height without going pas the "don't go higher than this mark" mark, I would change to a 90mm 35 degree stem or to something similar. Bear in mind that the longer the length of the replacement stem, the higher the bars, but the further away from you they will also be. You can get adjustable angle stems - they are not something that I have tried. Your bars look like 1" oversized riser bars to me.

If it was me, I would also be changing the grips as well, but I have a bad hand. I'll try to post a picture of my mtb set up for you if I can, either that or my tourer which as same grips & bar ends + really short stem & some non-standard riser bars.


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## lulubel (11 Jan 2013)

It does look quite stretched out to me. (Compare with this, which is the bike my OH has got. The frame is shorter, and it also has a shorter stem.)

Also, you've got your saddle very slightly nose down, which will be putting more weight onto your hands. I found when I started riding my MTB, I had to position the saddle with the nose slightly higher than normal (on my road bike, it's horizontal, on the MTB, slightly nose up) to work with the more upright body position.

I'd also change those grips. Now that I've ridden with ergo grips, I wouldn't go back.


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## Boon 51 (11 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> It does look quite stretched out to me. (Compare with this, which is the bike my OH has got. The frame is shorter, and it also has a shorter stem.)
> 
> Also, you've got your saddle very slightly nose down, which will be putting more weight onto your hands. I found when I started riding my MTB, I had to position the saddle with the nose slightly higher than normal (on my road bike, it's horizontal, on the MTB, slightly nose up) to work with the more upright body position.
> 
> I'd also change those grips. Now that I've ridden with ergo grips, I wouldn't go back.


 
I did have the saddle set level but I became sore very soon and it was uncomfortable hence the nose down.. so no more soreness set like this but now my palms hurt.
Your right with the grips they are most uncomfortable..
Perhaps shorter stem and new bars but I'm not too far away from comfort and not too bothered about costs..


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## Boon 51 (11 Jan 2013)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Assuming that you have sufficient length left on the seat post to increase the height without going pas the "don't go higher than this mark" mark, I would change to a 90mm 35 degree stem or to something similar. Bear in mind that the longer the length of the replacement stem, the higher the bars, but the further away from you they will also be. You can get adjustable angle stems - they are not something that I have tried. Your bars look like 1" oversized riser bars to me.
> 
> If it was me, I would also be changing the grips as well, but I have a bad hand. I'll try to post a picture of my mtb set up for you if I can, either that or my tourer which as same grips & bar ends + really short stem & some non-standard riser bars.


 
Perhaps a shorter stem and a change of bars like the one's you posted earlier..


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## Boon 51 (12 Jan 2013)

Overnight I was thinking as you do..

I have just got a new Giant TCR 1 and the set up is perfect I feel if I have to spend a little to get my Trek mtb right its no problem, but I dont want to buy more than I have to so would it be better to get a shorter stem first or get the handle bars first..
What do you reckon?


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## lulubel (12 Jan 2013)

Stem would be my choice.

How short are you going? I've just taken a 75mm, 7 degree oversize stem off the Surly if you want to try it. It might be a bit shorter than you need, but it should give you an idea if you're on the right lines or not.


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## Motozulu (12 Jan 2013)

That stem does look very long on the MTB. Just measured mine on the Merida and that's 75mm too, which feels about right. Be interesting to see what the set up is on my cube when I get it next month. I know the bars are flat so I'll deffo end up changing them I reckon for wider risers (current ones are 640mm wide so I'll probably go 680 on the cube).


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## Motozulu (12 Jan 2013)

Don't know if this is applicable to you Boon, but CRC are doing some great deals on bars and stems right now - think I'll be putting these on the Cube, only in red. 

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=59299


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (12 Jan 2013)

stem here as well. a 7 degree 75mm could be worth trying if you are anywhere near to each other in Spain, otherwise I suspect (from what you have said previously) then something like a 80 or 90mm 30-35 degree stem would be the best way to go becuase it sounds more like you need to bring the hands up a touch as well as closer rather than just closer which lulubel's stem would do - however there is no harm in trying it.


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## Boon 51 (12 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Stem would be my choice.
> 
> How short are you going? I've just taken a 75mm, 7 degree oversize stem off the Surly if you want to try it. It might be a bit shorter than you need, but it should give you an idea if you're on the right lines or not.


 
Are you about on Tuesday as I have to go to Benalmadena so I could bung my bike in the back of my estate and call in and see you if you are free, I will be out and about that day..
I could PM you if you like..


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## Boon 51 (12 Jan 2013)

Motozulu said:


> Don't know if this is applicable to you Boon, but CRC are doing some great deals on bars and stems right now - think I'll be putting these on the Cube, only in red.
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=59299


 
Yep.. somthing like that would be the idea If I have to get new bars..


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## lulubel (13 Jan 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Are you about on Tuesday as I have to go to Benalmadena so I could bung my bike in the back of my estate and call in and see you if you are free, I will be out and about that day..
> I could PM you if you like..


 
Sorry I didn't reply before.

We're not going to be around on Tuesday, but I could post it to you tomorrow if you want?


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## Boon 51 (13 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Sorry I didn't reply before.
> 
> We're not going to be around on Tuesday, but I could post it to you tomorrow if you want?


 
Well I can call round at any time I dont mind, then I know where to return the stem when I've tried it out and save on the postage plus I will be away from next Friday as I'm going to see my mum in the UK this weekend coming.

Its up to you really, its very good of you to let me have it for test run, it if it works then I can get one in the UK next week..
Let me know..

Cheers Paul.


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## Boon 51 (13 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Sorry I didn't reply before.
> 
> We're not going to be around on Tuesday, but I could post it to you tomorrow if you want?


 
Well I can call round at any time I dont mind, then I know where to return the stem when I've tried it out and save on the postage plus I will be away from next Friday as I'm going to see my mum in the UK this weekend coming.

Its up to you really, its very good of you to let me have it for test run, it if it works then I can get one in the UK next week..
Let me know..

Cheers Paul.


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