# Is it just me that doesn't like the Brompton?



## colmac2000 (26 Mar 2015)

I bought one of these last week via cyclescheme and I'm hugely disappointed. I have been riding a Tern Uno for the last few months and it is fine. Apart from the magnet which doesn't really hold it together very well, it is a nice bike. First time out on the Brompton I nearly died twice because the pedal hit the ground going around corners, nearly pitching me into the path of oncoming traffic. It took about 3 times as long as the Tern to fold and unfold. There's no stand and, with the bag fitted to the front, flipping the back wheel under resulted in the bike falling over unless I held it all the time. The steering is incredibly twitchy...one hand riding is not really an option.

For £1105...I feel ripped off.


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## nomisp (26 Mar 2015)

Try before you buy may be the moral of this tale before spending £1100 . It should be quite easy to find a bike shop that has Brompton demonstrators available to test ride their range of bikes. nomisp


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Mar 2015)

Each to their own, I guess. I've never managed to hit a pedal on the ground on any bike I've ever ridden, folder or otherwise.
Practice with the fold might help, its a matter of seconds after a few goes, I find it is the unfolding, fiddling with the clamps, that takes a tad longer, but my Birdy & old Dahon have their own idiosyncrasies with un/folding too.
Why would you need a stand? The rear end flip is designed to do that job.
Never had a problem with mine falling over even with a fully laden front S bag, I guess the terrain might have something to do with it? Twitchy, I guess, it is a small wheel but mine is no more twitchy than my 18" Birdy nor any more skittish than my 700x23 @ 110psi roadie & after a few runs, you'll not notice.
One handed riding is quite doable (S type flat bar here), I've even managed as much of a trackstand as I can make on my other bikes. I'd suspect tho if you're throwing it around to the degree you're whacking the pedals off the ground, you may be riding it rather vigorously and expecting too much from it out of the box, the ride takes a few trips to get to be second nature.

If you really don't like it tho & the shop won't assist in any way, you've got a very slowly depreciating asset on your hands with a vibrant 2nd hand market for when you can sell it on, or immediately if your CS allows/won't notice.


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## steveindenmark (27 Mar 2015)

Sell it on ebay they sell well.

Next time do a lot more research and you won't feel ripped off. It sounds like your mistake and not Bromptons.


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## annedonnelly (27 Mar 2015)

I couldn't ride mine one handed for the first few rides. It soon gets easier and it's no problem now. No problems with the fold with a bit of practice - I often have an amazed audience! - I've never tried to fold any other type, but most don't look as small as the Brompton when folded.

I did spend the time/money to rent one for a test ride though so I was fairly sure I would like it.


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## jay clock (27 Mar 2015)

You will resell for great money. But I have one (also a Dahon) and the Dahon has not seen the light of day in 12 mths.

I am not fast and my wife timed me folding the Brompton in 16 secs....and massively smaller when folded than my Dahon

I have never grounded a pedal. Sounds like a tiny adaptation to riding style would help

Agreed twitchy as hell but a heavy S bag helps a lot.

And again no problems with it toppling when in the built in stand position.....


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## Sara_H (27 Mar 2015)

Hmmm.... Shame you're not enjoying your Brompton.


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## byegad (27 Mar 2015)

Well no you are not alone. But if you think that was bad you should have tried the first Bickertons! The handlebars flexed in/out and forward/back to an alarming amount and getting out of the saddle saw the whole thing flex like cooked spaghetti! Yet they sold and people raved about them. By comparison the Brompton is a Rolls Royce, but not as good a ride as my Dahon Speed-Pro or even Dahon Boardwalk! Neither of which fold as elegantly as the brompton.


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## CopperBrompton (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> First time out on the Brompton I nearly died twice because the pedal hit the ground going around corners


You're riding a bike with 16-inch wheels, you're closer to the ground, but surely every cyclist on any bike learns very early on to keep the inside pedal high when leant over hard?



> It took about 3 times as long as the Tern to fold and unfold.


How long is it taking you? Folding/unfolding a Brompton takes less than 20 seconds.



> There's no stand and, with the bag fitted to the front, flipping the back wheel under resulted in the bike falling over


Er, the flipped rear wheel is the stand! And I've used mine with four different bags and it hasn't fallen over yet – not sure how you're managing that!



> The steering is incredibly twitchy...one hand riding is not really an option.


It's easy when you're used to it – I can even manage no-handed if I'm careful (though I don't recommend it).

But people are different. Not every bike is for every person.


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## Ganymede (27 Mar 2015)

I have a bike with a16" front wheel (not a folder) and it took a while to get used to it, so I sympathise with that - but I did get used to it quite quickly.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2015)




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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

Thanks for the responses. I'm aware that my first post here is a bit negative but I needed to vent 

In response to some of the comments - I did try before buying...but just a quick run around the bike shop car park - not really enough to find the issues I have found since picking up my actual bike. I was largely going on the reputation for quality - it just never occurred to me I would have an issue. When I discussed it with the guy in the shop he said nobody else had ever complained about anything to do with the Brompton ever and he has sold about 10 a day for the last 40 years (I may be exaggerating slightly). I'm the first person ever in the history of time to not completely love them, he said.

On the wheel flipping 'being the stand' - yeah...I'm aware that's what you are supposed to do with the Brompton. My experience was that it was unstable with the front bag fitted. Maybe it was on uneven ground, although it was just a station platform. But I guess I find it kind of inconvenient that you have to bend down, release a catch then flip the wheel in order to do anything that requires both hands, where I am used to just kicking down a stand.

Someone above mentioned the flexing of the handlebars on the old Bickerton - I actually thought the Brompton handlebars were flexing quite a lot which gave the whole thing a kind of flimsy feel. The clamp that holds the handlebars on doesn't look very sturdy does it? Although I guess it must be ok if nobody else has a problem.

On the fold - I haven't timed it but it's just one of those things that feels like more hassle than it probably actually is. My Tern has two clips that hold it together really well, so the unfold process is: swing bike apart, clip, clip, raise saddle, ride. With the Brompton it's: raise saddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, swing bike around, raise handlebars, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle, flip wheel, fit bag, ride. It just feels like a pain.

I suppose a lot of it is the price - if it cost me the same as my Tern (£300) I'd probably just accept the above irritations as the price for having a smaller fold that doesn't painfully unfold into my genitals at inopportune moments (as the Tern has a tendency to do - main reason for looking at the Brompton). But for over £1000? Jeez. OK, so through cyclescheme this is actually costing me less than £600, but even so.

The guy in the shop says I can return it (-10% 'restocking charge') but I need to see if the cyclescheme can be cancelled. Not sure about that.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2015)

It's not obligatory to like Bromptons. I can see they are a bit of an acquired taste. @User482 doesn't get on with them either whereas I bought one a month or so ago and after 40 odd years of cycling and a fleet of many fine bicycle think it's the best thing since sliced bread. More smiles per mile than any other bike I've had since I was a kid and getting far more use than I ever expected.
Which model did you get?

Maybe it's worth a bit more perseverance or as TMN says sell it and you'll recoup a large amount of your costs for another bike. Try before you buy though!


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## dan_bo (27 Mar 2015)

User said:


> How far?



All the way to the dentist.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

Double post


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## CopperBrompton (27 Mar 2015)

User said:


> How far?


Freewheeling is drama-free; pedalling, I wouldn't do it for more than a few turns of the pedal, else Dan would likely be right. :-)


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## User482 (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> I bought one of these last week via cyclescheme and I'm hugely disappointed. I have been riding a Tern Uno for the last few months and it is fine. Apart from the magnet which doesn't really hold it together very well, it is a nice bike. First time out on the Brompton I nearly died twice because the pedal hit the ground going around corners, nearly pitching me into the path of oncoming traffic. It took about 3 times as long as the Tern to fold and unfold. There's no stand and, with the bag fitted to the front, flipping the back wheel under resulted in the bike falling over unless I held it all the time. The steering is incredibly twitchy...one hand riding is not really an option.
> 
> For £1105...I feel ripped off.



As @Fab Foodie says, I don't get on with them either - I find them slow, heavy, flexy and uncomfortable to ride. But the folding mechanism is superb (with practice), I've never had a problem with the front bag causing it to fall over, nor have I ever struck the ground with a pedal.

I believe that there are different options for handlebars which may help the ride, but the other problems you list don't sound like faults to me.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Sell it on ebay they sell well.
> 
> Next time do a lot more research and you won't feel ripped off. It sounds like your mistake and not Bromptons.



Difficult to know what kind of research to do really, other than trying it out and trawling the Internet for comments, both of which I did. I can't find a single negative comment about Bromptons on the Internet (apart from the one I've written!)...and I've tried quite hard 

But yeah - definitely my mistake.



Fab Foodie said:


> It's not obligatory to like Bromptons. I can see they are a bit of an acquired taste. @User482 doesn't get on with them either whereas I bought one a month or so ago and after 40 odd years of cycling and a fleet of many fine bicycle think it's the best thing since sliced bread. More smiles per mile than any other bike I've had since I was a kid and getting far more use than I ever expected.
> Which model did you get?
> 
> Maybe it's worth a bit more perseverance or as TMN says sell it and you'll recoup a large amount of your costs for another bike. Try before you buy though!



It's a M3L I think...traditional handlebars and 3 gears. I prefer the look of the S but I tried one and the riding position was too hunched over for me.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

Trikeman said:


> You're riding a bike with 16-inch wheels, you're closer to the ground, but surely every cyclist on any bike learns very early on to keep the inside pedal high when leant over hard?



I really wasn't leaning very far over and I was peddling, rather than free-wheeling. It's the folding pedal that is the particular problem because the design is such that there's a big lump of metal above and below the pedal. Never happened on my Tern but that is 20".


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## Kempston (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> I bought one of these last week via cyclescheme and I'm hugely disappointed. I have been riding a Tern Uno for the last few months and it is fine. Apart from the magnet which doesn't really hold it together very well, it is a nice bike. First time out on the Brompton I nearly died twice because the pedal hit the ground going around corners, nearly pitching me into the path of oncoming traffic. It took about 3 times as long as the Tern to fold and unfold. There's no stand and, with the bag fitted to the front, flipping the back wheel under resulted in the bike falling over unless I held it all the time. The steering is incredibly twitchy...one hand riding is not really an option.
> 
> For £1105...I feel ripped off.



Nope, not just you. I still feel for many a Brompton is a folding fashion accessory first and a bike second and for me that is not bikes are about. I've said on here previously that they're the default for people looking for a folder, and not enough of them look into the better value alternatives.

I tested a Brompton on loan for a few weeks before deciding they simply weren't worth the money. They fold lovely (albeit not particularly quickly, as you say), but with only 16" wheels I felt they simply weren't comfortable enough in terms of ride, and the frame flexed a little too much which made for a disconcerting ride. And over £1100 to get one with enough gears to be practical? Ridiculous. I went for a 7 gear 20" Tern Link in the end for around £650, over £500 less than the Brompton and it rode so much nicer. After around 18 months I then decided I did enough mileage per day to move up to a full 26" so went for the 24 gear Tern Joe P24 and haven't looked back.


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## Kempston (27 Mar 2015)

User said:


> Reilly? Most people rate that aspect very highly.



I can unfold my Tern Joe twice as fast as a Brompton, but the Brompton is far smaller so I guess you could call it an unfair comparison. As I said, the fold of a Brompton is fantastic. However, beside the multitude of accessories due to so many people buying them by default, the fold is the only thing going for the bike in my view. Everything else about them from the looks, the value for money and, most importantly of all, the ride quality, is lacking.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

For me, the looks of the Brompton are definitely a negative - I don't like the 'traditional' thing, so that aspect is wasted on me. I appreciate that for a lot of people this is a big reason for owning one.


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## Flying Dodo (27 Mar 2015)

I quite like Bromptons. However I've always felt they are massively over engineered. The material on the main tube is far thicker than it needs to be.


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## Kempston (27 Mar 2015)

Flying Dodo said:


> I quite like Bromptons. However I've always felt they are massively over engineered. The material on the main tube is far thicker than it needs to be.



It's a fair old length when unfolded so needs to be strong. It's the side effect of an old and outdated design that they refuse to update. In some ways Brompton are slaves to their own 'coolness' as the design is so set in stone they probably feel an update would be a betrayal to tradition or some other such gibberish, despite it probably resulting in a better bike.


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## Flying Dodo (27 Mar 2015)

Kempston said:


> It's a fair old length when unfolded so needs to be strong. It's the side effect of an old and outdated design that they refuse to update. In some ways Brompton are slaves to their own 'coolness' as the design is so set in stone they probably feel an update would be a betrayal to tradition or some other such gibberish, despite it probably resulting in a better bike.



True, although they could sell far more bikes if they did a new version, as all the cool people would HAVE to buy the new one as well. They could market them as the "Brompton Traditional" and "New Brompton".


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## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> I really wasn't leaning very far over and I was peddling, rather than free-wheeling. It's the folding pedal that is the particular problem because the design is such that there's a big lump of metal above and below the pedal. Never happened on my Tern but that is 20".


Swap the pedals? I use cheapo single-sided SPDs on mine and it's fine.

As for the looks, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think they look just fine.I find the ride on mine is great too, the turn of speed shocks many. But each to their own I say.


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## Ganymede (27 Mar 2015)

Flying Dodo said:


> True, although they could sell far more bikes if they did a new version, as all the cool people would HAVE to buy the new one as well. They could market them as the "Brompton Traditional" and "New Brompton".


You're going to go far, son.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

Reminds me of the Gibson Les Paul guitar. They made some updates to the 55 year old design this year and are being flayed alive for it on Internet forums...and they are not selling well.


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## andyfraser (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> Reminds me of the Gibson Les Paul guitar. They made some updates to the 55 year old design this year and are being flayed alive for it on Internet forums...and they are not selling well.


Whatever they did to the new Les Paul it wasn't drop the price.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

andyfraser said:


> Whatever they did to the new Les Paul it wasn't drop the price.



They have now... they just dropped the prices across the range by about 500 quid. Not selling well, methinks.


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## andyfraser (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> They have now... they just dropped the prices across the range by about 500 quid. Not selling well, methinks.


So what have they done to annoy people? I could see much difference from the specs I looked at.


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## Pale Rider (27 Mar 2015)

A Brompton is a scaffold pole with a hinge in the middle and a little wheel at each end.

It's amazing it rides as well as it does.

I have an on-off relationship with mine.

Sometimes I think that front end is just too harsh and twitchy.

Then I go for a ride across town, weaving around the various obstacles, accelerating almost as quickly as a proper cyclist, if not braking quite as well.

And I think: "That was just so much fun, I must ride my Brommie more often."


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## jay clock (27 Mar 2015)

To address the issue of fold time I found a vid of the OP's bike being folded. Assuming it is the same Tern Uno. See here 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYLg61iaZzA
at the 17:21 mark when he starts it takes 32 secs to fold fully. Now I am not particularly speedy but my kids timed me at well under 20 secs for the Brompton. Around 16 -17 I recall. 

And as for that velcro strap malarkey...


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

andyfraser said:


> So what have they done to annoy people? I could see much difference from the specs I looked at.



The fretboard is wider, they are using a robot autotune system, brass zero fret nut and they have replaced the iconic Les Paul script on the headstock with replica of an actual signature that looks like it has been drawn by a 5 year old. Nothing too drastic but enough to annoy the traditionalists. There is a Les Paul Traditional model, which they normally leave alone but they have applied the new updates even to that model this year.

Sorry - bit OT


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## andyfraser (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> The fretboard is wider, they are using a robot autotune system, brass zero fret nut and they have replaced the iconic Les Paul script on the headstock with replica of an actual signature that looks like it has been drawn by a 5 year old. Nothing too drastic but enough to annoy the traditionalists. There is a Les Paul Traditional model, which they normally leave alone but they have applied the new updates even to that model this year.
> 
> Sorry - bit OT


I thought the autotune thing sounded good. I still won't buy one at those prices though. I'm done now.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

jay clock said:


> To address the issue of fold time I found a vid of the OP's bike being folded. Assuming it is the same Tern Uno.
> ...
> at the 17:21 mark when he starts it takes 32 secs to fold fully. Now I am not particularly speedy but my kids timed me at well under 20 secs for the Brompton. Around 16 -17 I recall.
> 
> And as for that velcro strap malarkey...



Not sure what the velcro strap is about...mine doesn't have that and I did buy it new.

I was surprised at how long it took him to fold the bike, so I just timed myself and it is around 18-19secs. Can the Brompton really be done in under 10 seconds?

The big issue with the Tern for me is that the only thing keeping it folded is a pretty weedy magnet. It has unfolded on me quite a few times and been really annoying.


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## srw (27 Mar 2015)

The Tern Uno, from the photos I've seen, looks like it's _yet another_ Dahon clone/knockoff/rebadge job. The only bike I've ever had stolen was a Dahon, and I was _absolutely delighted_. It was a horrible thing, with a horrible fold, a horrible ride and a horrible setup. The second worst thing about it was the adjustable handlebars. The worst thing about it was the fact that the folding mechanism always felt as if it was about to come undone- and did, on more than one occasion.

The Brompton is probably the best all-purpose commuting folder out there - the reason they sell so well isn't fashion, it's because they're good at what they do. They're expensive because, unlike most other bike manufacturers, Brompton haven't sacrificed quality for cost and still manufacture in London.


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## srw (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> Not sure what the velcro strap is about...mine doesn't have that and I did buy it new.
> 
> I was surprised at how long it took him to fold the bike, so I just timed myself and it is around 18-19secs. Can the Brompton really be done in under 10 seconds?


Yes. And that's with the OEM screws. Aftermarket addons are available, if pure speed is all you care about.

For me the beauty of the Brompton fold is its functionality. The whole thing is always stable, and it packs in on itself to a neat package. Folding the horrible horrible Dahon was like unfolding a deck-chair - you never knew how it would end up, and the designed package was nasty and spiky.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

srw said:


> The Tern Uno, from the photos I've seen, looks like it's _yet another_ Dahon clone/knockoff/rebadge job.



It is a Dahon, essentially...there was some family political reason behind the change of name.


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

I'm still undecided as to whether or not to persevere with it tbh.

One (probably stupid) question - given that it is made of steel...I assume if the paint gets chipped then it will rust?

I ask because even after folding and unfolding only a few times I can tell that the paint around the joint isn't going to last.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> I'm still undecided as to whether or not to persevere with it tbh.
> 
> One (probably stupid) question - given that it is made of steel...I assume if the paint gets chipped then it will rust?
> 
> I ask because even after folding and unfolding only a few times I can tell that the paint around the joint isn't going to last.


Yes.
It's hell of a lot of metal to go through, it'll probably outlast most of us!


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## colmac2000 (27 Mar 2015)

Hmm...there is a chip off the corner just where the clamp fits over already...after maybe 5 or 6 folds?


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## Kempston (27 Mar 2015)

srw said:


> The Brompton is probably the best all-purpose commuting folder out there - the reason they sell so well isn't fashion, it's because they're good at what they do. They're expensive because, unlike most other bike manufacturers, Brompton haven't sacrificed quality for cost and still manufacture in London.



I certainly agree they're the best if ride comfort isn't taken into account. Because, from a folding perspective, size, fold and practicality then becomes the main consideration. I don't agree with what you say about their cost though, your reasons appear to come straight out of a Brompton catalogue. For me, they're primarily expensive because people will buy them regardless and they take advantage of that. In some ways they're the Apple of foldup bikes. Like Apple, Brompton are in an enviable position where, in terms of appeal and sales figures, the brand has become more relevant than the product itself. Which touches on my point about them being a fashion accessory for a lot of people.

I guess it comes down to personal opinion, like anything else. For me, a foldup bike is still primarily a bike. So how well it rides on my 16 mile per day commute is far more important than leaving a bit of extra space on the train.


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## jay clock (27 Mar 2015)

@colmac2000 you said in the first post that the Brompton take 3 times as long as the Tern to fold. So at 18-19 for the Tern, is the Brompton taking 56 to 59 secs? And where did you get the idea of under 10 secs for a Brompton? Possibly in the world champs?


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

Yeah, I'd say normal time for a Brompton is around 20 seconds. 15 would be do-able if you tried hard. 10 would be impressive.


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

Kempston said:


> Everything else about them from the looks, the value for money and, most importantly of all, the ride quality, is lacking.


The looks, maybe. Value for money is fantastic. You can buy a brand new one, ride it every day for 5+ years and still get two-thirds of your money back. Buy a secondhand one and you'll get 100% of your money back years later, making it free. Ride quality is great IMV – rock solid, fast to accelerate, incredibly manoeuvrable (a key requirement in London traffic).


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## Kempston (28 Mar 2015)

When I talk about value for money, I'm talking about what you get for it, not what someone is willing to pay five years down the line.

And after spending a considerable amount of time riding a Brompton, I can only assume we have very different views on what constitutes ride quality. How anything that flexes as much as a Brompton does can be described as rock solid is beyond me. For me they have a very disconcerting ride.


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## Deleted member 23692 (28 Mar 2015)

We have a couple at work for use as office bikes, and the folded size and portability is superb. I grew up riding an RSW16 and a Brompton is similar ride experiences which although not great, is always a fun nostalgia trip for me, so there's no complaints there. 

It's the quality and design of the components that I find astonishingly poor considering it's a £1000(ish) bike. Compared with the look of a Dahon Mu SL (for example) a Brompton looks like a £200 BSO.

But I'm not a potential buyer for one, and there are plenty that will fork out the asking price.


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## colmac2000 (28 Mar 2015)

User said:


> That is normal.



Really? But will my £1105 bike not immediately become rusty now...? Is this not...a bit...rubbish?


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

Kempston said:


> When I talk about value for money, I'm talking about what you get for it, not what someone is willing to pay five years down the line.
> 
> And after spending a considerable amount of time riding a Brompton, I can only assume we have very different views on what constitutes ride quality. How anything that flexes as much as a Brompton does can be described as rock solid is beyond me. For me they have a very disconcerting ride.


Flexing? mine flexes about as much as a steel girder. Apart from the bizarre looks, the harsh ride is the only bad bit. But that is all offset by the huge practicality particularly commuting daily on a very crowded trains (South West Trains) where spaces to slot in the Brompton are limited, and the Dahon would simply have to sit in the aisle as it would not fit behind the seats.

I certainly don't find the Brompton fast though by the way


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## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2015)

Some of the minor components were a bit cheap, but they have been upgraded in the last few years.

In all important areas a Brompton is bomb proof.

London commuters thrash them across town twice a day for years on end - not many bikes will stand that.

Some people tour the world on them - not many bikes will stand that.

As regards the frame flexing, I always took it as the compliant feel of steel as opposed to the harshness of aluminium.

Even the ride isn't so terrible, the choc-shock does a good job of smoothing the back end.

As a Brompton dealer told me: "Say what you like about them, but a Brompton is a bike you need only buy once."


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

[QUOTE 3614476, member: 45"]You can't buy a cheap 2nd hand Brimpton[/QUOTE]
Er, yeah, there's a reason for that ...

Mine is one of the best-value products I've ever bought. It's by far the most practical London bike on the market, great to ride, last forever on London's crappy roads, folded package acceptable anywhere from a greasy spoon to a Michelin-starred restaurant, brilliant bag system (with huge choice of bags) and so much aftermarket support you can have anything from a stock bike to one where the frame is the only original component.


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

Your point seems to be that you pay more for a Brompton; I'm saying that's not coincidence.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

Ok, I know I'm a fan, but this is an interesting debate!

I don't get the references to frame flexing. Despite my attempts to thrash the life out of it so far, I don't notice anything resembling frame flex, like Jay Clock it all seems a bit girder like to me. Bear in mind that you have a hinge for the rear-triangle which could give that feeling. I'm 85kg approx with the std saddle, Brompton tyres at 100psi and the hard suspension block and don't find the ride that harsh. OK it's not as plush as my old 531 Holdsworth (neither does it flex so much), but it's not bad at all over the 30+ mile trips I've done on it so far. Over rough German cobbles along the Rhine it's a bit teeth chattery, but that's more likely due to 16" wheels. Harsh ride and flexy seems an odd combination.
In terms of speed I find it pretty damn quick! OK, it's not for the Sunday morning pseudo-peleton-race-wannabe run, but it's plenty fast enough for commuting, FNRttC, social riding and is not slow against hybrids, slicked MTB's ridden by every day Joes. It accelerates faster then most bikes and around town is far more nimble than a regular bike which now to me feels barge-like in comparison. Luggage options are good too. 
After trying a Brompton and a Dahon, the Brompton gave me the biggest grin factor.

In terms of VFM, that's always a difficult question. Certainly one of the reasons for the high cost is the fact that it's hand made/customisable in London rather than a std product from the far east. Neither is it a high volume product. Also, to enable the unique fold etc. a lot of parts are Brompton specific which again adds more cost compared to OEM supply. So the build cost of a Brompton *is* going to be higher compared to a Dahon for example. The rest is 'Market Pricing' and currently the evidence is that whether it's the extra utility, the adaptableness, the fashion appeal, back-up, service, longevity whatever, the Brompton seems to be able to command and hold a higher price in comparison to many other mainstream folders because the purchasers deem it worth the extra. In my case there are good flight-case options and aircraft accesibility and portability with a Brompton which for me is also a benefit worth the extra cost.

@colmac2000 
If you're really not that enamoured, then maybe it's best to sell it on? 
Alternatively, approach it with a different mindset (post-purchase dissonance is not unusual among bike buyers either). Clearly there is a disconnect between your expectation and the reality which is not uncommon. Sometimes appreciation takes time.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

Update:
Have just had a mad-blast into town and looking for frame flex .... to me as I usually ride the main frame feels pretty girder stiff (with a slight 'steely' resilience maybe), however, depending on how I rode it, you can certainly generate flex in the handlebar tube from the headset to the bars. How much of this you feel depends on how you ride. I tend on all my bikes including the Brompton have the saddle waaay back on the rails and am well-planted enough to be very light on the bars, so don't really feel much movement or flex here. If I haul hard on them I can create flex. Riding the Brommie with a spinny pedal action I don't really need to haul on the bars either. Maybe this is why I don't notice it's 'flexiness'. 
Hard to tell with the seatpost but something so long must have some kind of movement but I reckon that to be true of other folders. The Brommie saddle is quite compliant, so a harder saddle like a Brooks might give a different experience of movement and harshness.


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## colmac2000 (28 Mar 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> @colmac2000
> If you're really not that enamoured, then maybe it's best to sell it on?
> Alternatively, approach it with a different mindset (post-purchase dissonance is not unusual among bike buyers either). Clearly there is a disconnect between your expectation and the reality which is not uncommon. Sometimes appreciation takes time.



Yeah, I'm thinking there's an element of buyer's remorse going on and I should probably give it a bit more of a chance. I am a bit concerned that the finish on my particular one is a bit sub standard - I noticed the paint around the corner of one of the joints was a bit bubbly and obviously with the pressure of the clamp this has now flaked off. Although I suppose these kinds of chips and scratches are inevitable anyway. So - how do people deal with the rust issue?


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking there's an element of buyer's remorse going on and I should probably give it a bit more of a chance. I am a bit concerned that the finish on my particular one is a bit sub standard - I noticed the paint around the corner of one of the joints was a bit bubbly and obviously with the pressure of the clamp this has now flaked off. Although I suppose these kinds of chips and scratches are inevitable anyway. So - how do people deal with the rust issue?


If it's a case of poor manufacture and the paint really starts to flake-off or bubble in non-contact areas then contact the dealer or Brompton direct. From what I hear their service is very good.
Maybe you could post some pictures and the more experienced can tell you if it's normal or not?

My '82 Holdsworth has some very large areas where the paint has come-off, like under the BB shell and a lot of other cosmetic down to the metal scratches it doesn't seem to rust. I just wipe those bits over with an oily rag when I clean it.


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## srw (28 Mar 2015)

[QUOTE 3614476, member: 45"]I don't think value for money is good at all. It's not about initial price v sell-off price. You can't buy a cheap 2nd hand Brimpton, so it's irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
I think you're making the wrong comparison. The Brompton is designed so that the value-for-money comparison is against an annual season ticket on city centre public transport. Which is why I bought my first one - the marginal cost on the annual season ticket of zone-one travel was only slightly less than the cost of the Brompton. I kept it when I moved because the enjoyment and quality of ride outweighed the zero marginal cost of zone-one travel from my new house.


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## srw (28 Mar 2015)

[QUOTE 3614577, member: 45"]No, that's not my point. It's pretty clear.[/QUOTE]
So what is your point? I'm afraid it's not desperately clear to me.


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## Ganymede (28 Mar 2015)

srw said:


> I think you're making the wrong comparison. The Brompton is designed so that the value-for-money comparison is against an annual season ticket on city centre public transport. Which is why I bought my first one - the marginal cost on the annual season ticket of zone-one travel was only slightly less than the cost of the Brompton. I kept it when I moved because the enjoyment and quality of ride outweighed the zero marginal cost of zone-one travel from my new house.


I also notice with my friend in London who has become devoted to her Brompton, that there is a huge payoff in the reduction of anxiety about bike parking/theft. She is not well-off and the loss of a bike makes a massive dent in her daily budget - even if she gets it back or claims insurance, she still has to suddenly start paying travel fares for however long it takes. Her work takes her all over London at random times so the saving of worry is immense - also it takes less time to fold and carry than to park and lock when she arrives - also she essentially doesn't need to take a lock!


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## srw (28 Mar 2015)

To be fair to the haters, the same thing would be true of any folding bike - it's just that Brompton does the complete package better than anyone else.


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## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2015)

I'm not sure what the OP means by rust on the joints, and there certainly shouldn't be paint bubbles.

The seat stay bridge can rust through, but that takes years and won't happen if the area is kept clean and lightly oiled.


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

rust? just looked at mine (1 year old, used 3-4 times a week for a 13 mile round trip plus lots of folding on/off trains) and tiny chips off the paint by the clips, but no rust

Can we summarise as the discussion as "most people like them, some don't"?


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

[QUOTE 3614577, member: 45"]No, that's not my point. It's pretty clear.[/QUOTE]
At least two of us disagree with you, as your point is entirely unclear to us, but no matter: the bottom line appears to be that you are content with a cheaper bike, so all is good.


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## velovoice (28 Mar 2015)

Two comments re:
1 - risk of rust. Have you all read this? http://blog.brompton.com/2014/03/19/paint-and-rust-protection/
2 - flex. In addition to the M bars being a factor, have you considered the suspension block? My first Brompton was a M3L with the standard suspension block and was what I'd call "springy". The instant and overwhelming impression of my S1L with the firm suspension block (at my request) was how stiff and fast and _direct_ it was.


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## CopperBrompton (28 Mar 2015)

I'd definitely recommend the firm suspension block, and yep, if you have the M bars then the Brompton handlebar brace (about £15 from memory) makes a big difference.


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## ianrauk (28 Mar 2015)

Nope, you are not alone. I also don't like Bromptons. For the simple fact that I just don't like them.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

ianrauk said:


> Nope, you are not alone. I also don't like Bromptons. For the simple fact that I just don't like them.


Not even blue ones?


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

velovoice said:


> The instant and overwhelming impression of my S1L with the firm suspension block (at my request) was how stiff and fast and _direct_ it was.


That's kinda how mine feels, it accelerates amazingly well, it's no slouch until aerodynamics dominate.


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## ianrauk (28 Mar 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> Not even blue ones?




Not even Blue or even Ti


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## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2015)

ianrauk said:


> Not even Blue or even Ti


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## S.Giles (28 Mar 2015)

I went riding a couple of years ago with a friend who owns a Brompton. We swapped bikes for a while and I didn't like it at all. The fittings seemed pretty low-quality and I couldn't get on with the wheel-size. Only three gears (IIRC); what's that about? 

And that was before I found out how much they cost!


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## ianrauk (28 Mar 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


>




They just don't do anything for me...


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## TheDoctor (28 Mar 2015)

It's a niche bike. Some like them, some don't.
Can we accept that and move on?


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## colmac2000 (28 Mar 2015)

Niche? Think not. I commuted into London 2 days last week and there was a veritable sea of Bromptons streaming along the platform. I couldn't spot a single non-Brompton folder.


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## TheDoctor (28 Mar 2015)

User said:


> It would appear not, at least not until every last Bromptoneer has repented of their foolishness.


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## colmac2000 (28 Mar 2015)

User said:


> That would be because the non Brompton owner was still reassembling their bike down the end of the platform.



The fold-unfold speed seems pretty much the same between my Tern and my Brompton tbh. It just _feels_ longer on the Brompton because of the relentless twiddling that is required.

The blog on rust quoted above is reassuring...I think I'll probably hang on to the bike and see if I can't get into it. After all, through the cycle scheme it is only ("only"!) costing me £580 so I can sell it on in a year and probably not lose money.


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> The fold-unfold speed seems pretty much the same between my Tern and my Brompton tbh. It just _feels_ longer on the Brompton because of the relentless twiddling that is required.
> 
> The blog on rust quoted above is reassuring...I think I'll probably hang on to the bike and see if I can't get into it. After all, through the cycle scheme it is only ("only"!) costing me £580 so I can sell it on in a year and probably not lose money.


If you are getting it for that I suspect you will be in profit in a year's time


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

[QUOTE 3615707, member: 45"]They soon pass them on the road though while they're fiddling with their trouser clips and doing the special wave at all the others.[/QUOTE]
Special wave? I daren't try that as single handed riding is far too dangerous


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

Also re the flexing mine must be less bad because I have the S model (flat bar). Slightly lower position and less knob-end look to the bike. 

I went for bright orange for the full W1A look


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## colmac2000 (28 Mar 2015)

It's the S model a completely different frame or is it just the handlebars that are different?


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## jay clock (28 Mar 2015)

but because the bars are not that weird shape the level is about 10cm lower than the M


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## Summerking (28 Mar 2015)

I loved my brompton, found it all day comfortable, the dayglo lycras hated me for waving at them :-)


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## Shortmember (29 Mar 2015)

byegad said:


> Well no you are not alone. But if you think that was bad you should have tried the first Bickertons! The handlebars flexed in/out and forward/back to an alarming amount and getting out of the saddle saw the whole thing flex like cooked spaghetti! Yet they sold and people raved about them. By comparison the Brompton is a Rolls Royce, but not as good a ride as my Dahon Speed-Pro or even Dahon Boardwalk! Neither of which fold as elegantly as the brompton.



The flexing of the handlebars on a Bickerton is largely curable if petrol is trickled between the bars and the clamp, as advised in the owners manual. The resulting stiffness allows me to get off the saddle and 'honk' up steepish slopes without too much drama.
When I first bought my Bickerton Classic second hand 17 years ago it did feel wobbly and unstable, and it took me a while to get used to it nodding its head and shaking its butt under hard pedalling, but now I just let it 'do its thing', confident that it isn't going to throw a hissy fit and chuck me off.


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## shouldbeinbed (29 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> The fold-unfold speed seems pretty much the same between my Tern and my Brompton tbh. It just _feels_ longer on the Brompton because of the relentless twiddling that is required.
> 
> The blog on rust quoted above is reassuring...I think I'll probably hang on to the bike and see if I can't get into it. After all, through the cycle scheme it is only ("only"!) costing me £580 so I can sell it on in a year and probably not lose money.



Slippery slope my friend, slippery slope...

Its working its arcane magic on you already, by the time you've finished paying it over CS, it'll have persuaded you you'd rather part with a kidney & both testicles than let someone borrow it for 5 minutes


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## StuAff (29 Mar 2015)

srw said:


> *The Tern Uno, from the photos I've seen, looks like it's yet another Dahon clone/knockoff/rebadge job.* The only bike I've ever had stolen was a Dahon, and I was _absolutely delighted_. It was a horrible thing, with a horrible fold, a horrible ride and a horrible setup. The second worst thing about it was the adjustable handlebars. The worst thing about it was the fact that the folding mechanism always felt as if it was about to come undone- and did, on more than one occasion.
> 
> The Brompton is probably the best all-purpose commuting folder out there - the reason they sell so well isn't fashion, it's because they're good at what they do. They're expensive because, unlike most other bike manufacturers, Brompton haven't sacrificed quality for cost and still manufacture in London.





colmac2000 said:


> *It is a Dahon, essentially...there was some family political reason behind the change of name.*


No, and no, essentially. Dahon was, until a few years ago, actually not one company but three. Two- Dahon China, which controlled their factories there and Dahon North America (distribution there) were owned by the founder, David Hon. The other, Dahon Global, controlling worldwide sales & marketing, the majority of R&D and based in Taiwan, was owned by David's estranged wife Florence and their son Josh. Florence and Josh set up Tern in 2011, continued to control Dahon Global, including patents on many of Dahon's then range, and brought most of their design team with them. Not surprisingly years of legal wrangling ensued, eventually resolved in 2013. So if Terns resemble Dahons, it's not surprising, it would be more so if they didn't.

On the issue of Dahon quality, I'm on my third- Chutney was one of the last of the pre-split models- and I can say that the quality had improved significantly between my 2004-model Jetstream XP and the 2010-model Speed Pro TT, let alone earlier models. Frame is considerably stiffer on Chutney, zero creaking, hinge much improved. Josh and team have continued to make big improvements and if I were in the market for a new folder, Tern would definitely be on the shortlist. Dahon, IMHO, has dropped the ball big time on design, and as for their current sales representation in the UK…diabolical. Only a few bike models seem to be easily available in this country, you seem to either have to import or request ones that aren't listed. Parts availability (a long-term bugbear for owners) continues to be dreadful. I ended up importing a chain catcher from Germany a few years back, and I'd still end up doing that now... Tern, on the other hand, have an extensive network of dealers, Evans plus independents, full range and components widely available online- and fortunately many of them fit current and past Dahon models just fine. I've just bought a Tern rack to fit on Chutney as it was easily the best option.

@srw is dead right about Bromptons being the best commuter folder. Brommies do a a lot of things well, and a lot of things at least reasonably OK. There is no such thing as 'no compromise design', certainly not with folders, and Brompton have chosen to make a folding bike, rather than a bike that folds. That, and their determination to maintain backwards compatibility as they introduce improvements, does mean that in certain respects it falls behind the best of the competition, and they simply don't offer some of the choices and features that rivals do. Lightest? Nope. You can buy a 9kg Brompton, if you strip it down and fit the simplest gearing. Want a 9.something kg folder _with gears_ and you'll be shopping elsewhere. You can't have a wider gear range than the six speed without going to third parties. Fastest fold? Nope. Smoothest ride? Nope. Simplest fold? Not necessarily (I've seen a few Brommie owners having problems), though that's more a case of learning how to fold it, rather than anything specific to the make. But definitely the smallest fold, and the most convenient (if not lightest) to carry folded. Though I'm not entirely sure why a young lady I saw at Victoria the other week was pushing hers into the station on the easy wheels rather than the rather easier 16" ones....

I wouldn't buy a Brompton- for my particular folding bike needs, Chutney ticks all the boxes. It folds small enough, it's nippy, comfortable, has proved more than up to the job of riding centuries (and barely slower if at all than the other three in the fleet). It's just a great bike. Using it for the Normandy/Belgium holiday this year will not in any way be a chore. But, it's never going to fold as small as a Brommie (20" wheels give in ride quality what they take away in size), will never fold as neatly or as stably (magnets don't hold that well and it sits better with wheels slightly apart anyway). You pays your money....


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## shouldbeinbed (29 Mar 2015)

StuAff said:


> <snip>Brompton have chosen to make a folding bike, rather than a bike that folds. <snip>



In over a decade of Birdy riding love in with regular short tests on Brompton's and others (just because i could really), your words above are exactly what I said over and over again.

My last owned Birdy's DualDrive went and it needed a costly refurb to get it back to pristine condition coinciding with my knees creaking more & Manchester Metrolink (Bagged Brompton or nothing rule for bikes) coming to my hometown and near to my workplace made the 'B' decision for me. Although I was not 100% convinced I ended up with Hobson's choice when all things and availabilities, costs etc of other folders were taken into account. I paid my money with a suck it and see attitude, pretty happy I'd not lose much if it didn't go well and I'd recoup enough to try something else.

IMO and it is just MO but garnered from real experience, Living with a Brompton and riding it regularly gives a whole new perspective and a lie to my long held reservations & the sentiment of the quote above, it is most definitely a bike that folds and folds well, but it is also a bike that can be and is ridden +/-daily in comfort, without compromise, in preference to a variety of other bikes - more and less expensive that the Brompton & with a ride quality that significantly belies cute 1-liners like ^

+1 on older Dahon's too, My Getaway has very much the same weight and overall folded footprint as the Brompton does & bagged I have no doubt I'd get away (no pun) with it on the Metro but it wasn't a viable option as a day in day out bike, when the Birdy gave out. It lives at work now and is happily ridden for short hops out on days when I've not ridden in, but is a rickety old hector with some interesting lurch and flexing under pedalling load and braking.


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## StuAff (29 Mar 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> a ride quality that significantly belies cute 1-liners like ^


A line best taken in the context it was written. Bromptons can be ridden 'without compromise'? All design is compromise. You might be able to ride a Brompton up, and down, the Stelvio Pass or Mont Ventoux, but I'd hazard a guess more people would prefer to do so on something with 700c wheels, probably made of carbon. Getting down to those places via train or plane would be a lot easier with a Brommie though! No bike, folding or otherwise, Brompton or otherwise, can do everything well, and folders involve more compromises than most. A Brompton is the folding bike answer for many, they are excellent bikes, but it depends what the question was in the first place...

Been there, done that with DualDrive (had one replaced under warranty)


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## Flying Dodo (29 Mar 2015)

StuAff said:


> No bike, folding or otherwise, Brompton or otherwise, can do everything well, and folders involve more compromises than most. A Brompton is the folding bike answer for many, they are excellent bikes, but it depends what the question was in the first place...



And on that bombshell, Goodnight!


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## shouldbeinbed (29 Mar 2015)

StuAff said:


> A line best taken in the context it was written. Bromptons can be ridden 'without compromise'? All design is compromise. You might be able to ride a Brompton up, and down, the Stelvio Pass or Mont Ventoux, but I'd hazard a guess more people would prefer to do so on something with 700c wheels, probably made of carbon. Getting down to those places via train or plane would be a lot easier with a Brommie though! No bike, folding or otherwise, Brompton or otherwise, can do everything well, and folders involve more compromises than most. A Brompton is the folding bike answer for many, they are excellent bikes, but it depends what the question was in the first place...
> 
> Been there, done that with DualDrive (had one replaced under warranty)



That clip just stuck out for me as it was exactly what I'd said on Bromptons for years, I didn't mean to misrepresent by snipping it out &
agreed, without compromise is OTT, but likewise in context it sounds a bit better. I think the bike overall meets the tone of the second post more than the first, Its not perfect, no bike I've ever had has been but even at £900+ in terms of its VFM, versatility & satisfaction I'm hard pressed to think of another bike I've had that has impressed me more. 

Maybe that's why I'm the typical brommyw**ker convert, I've been deeply disappointed with more costly bikes I'd bigged up in my head as world beaters before I got them, with the Brompton I had a real suspicion it was emperors new clothes so have been extremely pleasantly surprised over the course of the last 18 odd months at how its performed.

I can't complain about the dualdrive, it gave near 10 years good use & the Birdy is still in bits in the shed awaiting the economic recovery landing at my doorstep to get it fettled again, then I'd have a dilemma


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## Kempston (29 Mar 2015)

User said:


> That would be because the non Brompton owner was still reassembling their bike down the end of the platform.



Or, perhaps they're like me and are three miles up the road because they have a folder which looks and rides like a proper bike and they don't look like a performing circus bear.


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## Kempston (29 Mar 2015)

Behind the sarcastic humour of my post there is a half-serious point. I've lost count of the amount of Bromptons I've ridden past. As they're chugging and blowing with their tiny wheels. But, then again, at least they have a cycle helmet that matches the colour of their bike. This seems important to a large proportion of Brompton owners for reasons I can't fathom.


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## StuAff (29 Mar 2015)

The key ingredient in a Brompton's performance is the rider. I've seen Brommies at over 30 mph. On the flat.


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## Kempston (29 Mar 2015)

Impressive. Most impressive.


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## ufkacbln (29 Mar 2015)

Many years ago there was a folding bicycle conference at Weymouth.

A very young Reise and Muller brought along a prototype Birdy, and spent many hours talking to Andrew Ritchie.

One of the events was a Le Mans start to your folded bike, unfold, ride and obstacle and fold race. The winner was Mark Sander's Strida


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## ufkacbln (29 Mar 2015)




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## 400bhp (29 Mar 2015)

No I don't like them. But I'd still buy one for the practicality, if it meant the difference between cycling and not cycling.


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## Ganymede (29 Mar 2015)

Cunobelin said:


>


What's that, Cunobelin? Me likey...


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## ufkacbln (29 Mar 2015)

It is a Juliane Neuss conversion kit

I have ridden a couple and they are fun

More piccies from this BROL Thread


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## Ganymede (29 Mar 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> It is a Juliane Neuss conversion kit
> 
> I have ridden a couple and they are fun
> 
> More piccies from this BROL Thread


Shame it looks like they aren't available any more. Ah well! I am supposed to be looking at bents with bigger wheels for my next bike so it's not what I really want, but thanks for posting the cool pix.

I have seen some folding recumbents but they still seem a bit cumbersome - I guess with trikes it's the only way to get them on a train, but I think I'm after another 2-wheeler anyway. Cheers!


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## colmac2000 (29 Mar 2015)

I constantly get passed by people on Bromptons while riding my Tern. I've always wondered why


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## ufkacbln (30 Mar 2015)

Ganymede said:


> Shame it looks like they aren't available any more. Ah well! I am supposed to be looking at bents with bigger wheels for my next bike so it's not what I really want, but thanks for posting the cool pix.
> 
> I have seen some folding recumbents but they still seem a bit cumbersome - I guess with trikes it's the only way to get them on a train, but I think I'm after another 2-wheeler anyway. Cheers!



Not perfect, but look at HP Velotechnok's Grasshopper


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## Kempston (30 Mar 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> I constantly get passed by people on Bromptons while riding my Tern. I've always wondered why



You're not very good at cycling? 

Joking. But on a serious note it obviously depends how much effort you're putting in but toe to toe that shouldn't be happening. Even a mid range Tern Link is easier to cycle, has larger wheels and, unless the Brompton owner took out a second mortgage, will have more gears.


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## Ganymede (30 Mar 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> Not perfect, but look at HP Velotechnok's Grasshopper


I've had a look on the HP website, ta! I'm on a slow burn towards a new 'bent... very slow...!


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## colmac2000 (30 Mar 2015)

Kempston said:


> You're not very good at cycling?
> 
> Joking. But on a serious note it obviously depends how much effort you're putting in but toe to toe that shouldn't be happening. Even a mid range Tern Link is easier to cycle, has larger wheels and, unless the Brompton owner took out a second mortgage, will have more gears.



They don't appear to be making any more of an effort than me - just seem to waft effortlessly past. My current Tern is single speed but I used to have a 6 gear 20" folder (different brand) and it happened with that too.


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## Kempston (31 Mar 2015)

Odd. I've never been passed by anyone on a Brompton. I've passed plenty of them though, both on my old Tern Link and on the Tern Joe P24 I have now. The latter is an unfair comparison though as it looks and rides like a standard full size mountain bike, no Brompton owner has a hope of keeping up unless they're a cyclist of very high quality. It needs to be said though that I cycle at a fair old speed. In my view, if you're not making an effort and out of breath, it defeats half the object of cycling. Cycling as exercise is as important to me as cycling to get from A to B, whether it's on a folder or not.


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## Bromptonaut (2 Apr 2015)

If it was bought through a C2W scheme OP cannot just sell - technically the bike belongs to his employer and he is leasing it.


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## colmac2000 (2 Apr 2015)

So I mentioned the paint chipping off to the shop I bought the bike from and they didn't think it should be happening so soon. They suggested I pop it back in and they would take a look and maybe send some images to Brompton. Not sure what kind of solution Brompton are likely to suggest though...they're not likely to offer to take it back and fix dodgy paint are they? Or are they? Or replace the bike? Hardly seems worth it, if that kind of 'damage' just happens anyway.

I'll see what they say I guess.


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## swansonj (3 Apr 2015)

Kempston said:


> Odd. I've never been passed by anyone on a Brompton. I've passed plenty of them though, both on my old Tern Link and on the Tern Joe P24 I have now. The latter is an unfair comparison though as it looks and rides like a standard full size mountain bike, no Brompton owner has a hope of keeping up unless they're a cyclist of very high quality.


Differences in fitness between riders easily outweigh differences in efficiencies between bikes. A cyclist outputting 200 or 300 W will outpace a cyclist outputting 50 W whether the former is on a Brompton and the latter on a Colnago or not. 


Kempston said:


> In my view, if you're not making an effort and out of breath, it defeats half the object of cycling.


I'm glad you qualified that with "in my view" because it's a view I profoundly disagree with and consider inimical to the cause of promoting cycling as a contribution to a healthier society (physically, mentally, socially and environmentally).


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## StuartG (4 Apr 2015)

Yes I'm late to this Marmite discussion too. For years I treated my Brompton as a folder, A practical way to go 2/3 miles with very twitchy steering. Then I was forced to use it long distance. I was terrified. But it got me there and along the way we fell in love. The weak link is me. Even TMN may testify it is guaranteed to put a smile on my face and will take me as far as my legs will carry me - nearly as far as my road bike.

Its like any relationship - you click or you don't. And it pays back with the more you give it. Oh and you do have to run'em in. My Brompton doesn't twitch anymore. Doesn't rust either. Maybe they no longer make 'em like that used to.

Its a M3L. Fixie riders may feel that is two more than necessary


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## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2015)

User14044mountain said:


> I'm just catching up on this thread. Can I say I love my Brompton? It's one of the best bike purchases I have made. 6 gears, P handlebars and a Brooks saddle. It's comfortable, nippy and the only bike our landlord in Oxford will allow us to keep in the flat. It's not as nippy as my road bike. It doesn't climb like my tourer or MTB but it copes with everything that's thrown at it. Initially I found the steering twitchy but after a couple of rides I'm happy riding one handed. I'm also happy 'honking' on the pedals up a hill. The only thing I didn't like were Brompton issue tyres, one of which punctured on my second ride. I've now got Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres on it. No problems for the last four months and I've been out in all conditions.
> 
> View attachment 84282


Sweeeeeeetttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt


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## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2015)

swansonj said:


> Differences in fitness between riders easily outweigh differences in efficiencies between bikes. A cyclist outputting 200 or 300 W will outpace a cyclist outputting 50 W whether the former is on a Brompton and the latter on a Colnago or not.
> 
> *I'm glad you qualified that with "in my view" because it's a view I profoundly disagree with and consider inimical to the cause of promoting cycling as a contribution to a healthier society (physically, mentally, socially and environmentally)*.


Absolutely.
It's not about how fast or how far, but how often ....


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## Pale Rider (4 Apr 2015)

Strava is the curse of the cycling classes.


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## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Strava is the curse of the cycling classes.


We really need shirts with this on .....


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## Kempston (4 Apr 2015)

swansonj said:


> Differences in fitness between riders easily outweigh differences in efficiencies between bikes. A cyclist outputting 200 or 300 W will outpace a cyclist outputting 50 W whether the former is on a Brompton and the latter on a Colnago or not.



Well yeah. Obviously. I'm not sure why you wrote this as if you were contradicting what I'd said.



swansonj said:


> I'm glad you qualified that with "in my view" because it's a view I profoundly disagree with and consider inimical to the cause of promoting cycling as a contribution to a healthier society (physically, mentally, socially and environmentally).



Well I'm hardly likely to be giving someone else's view, am I? And note I said 'half the point', the first word of which I suspect you might have missed. Still, you got quite a few likes I notice so perhaps they missed it too. 

I'm not saying you have to be blowing like a bitch when you complete the journey, but for me cycling is my primary source of exercise so on my 16 miles per day, I don't hold back.


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## The Jogger (11 Apr 2015)

Well after having just read through this thread, I have made the decision, I will be going out to buy mine next week. A bit of window shopping and a try out today.


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## colmac2000 (13 Apr 2015)

The Jogger said:


> Well after having just read through this thread, I have made the decision, I will be going out to buy mine next week. A bit of window shopping and a try out today.



How did it go?


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## The Jogger (13 Apr 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> How did it go?


I will either get a H6L in black off the shelf with marathon plus tyres mudguards no rack or wait five weeks on the colour I wanted. The C2W voucher should arrive this week so I have until then to make up my mind.


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## Fab Foodie (13 Apr 2015)

The Jogger said:


> I will either get a H6L in black off the shelf with marathon plus tyres mudguards no rack or wait five weeks on the colour I wanted. The C2W voucher should arrive this week so I have until then to make up my mind.


I would recommend the lower gearing option (44t Chainring) Been back in Bristol with mine tonight with the lowered gearing since my last visit - much better on the hills, much more usable.


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## The Jogger (13 Apr 2015)

I'll ask for that when I order it in that case.


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## Pale Rider (15 Apr 2015)

The Jogger said:


> I'll ask for that when I order it in that case.



Just to reinforce the lower gearing suggestion.

I think Bromptons are not designed for high cadence riding, but even spinning relatively slowly the lower gears give plenty of speed at the top end.


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## TheDoctor (18 Apr 2015)

This. Even going down mountains you don't really *need* a 99inch top gear.


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## colmac2000 (22 Apr 2015)

Decided to hang on to it and see if it grows on me. I haven't ridden it again since the first time though - been on the Tern.


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## colmac2000 (22 Apr 2015)

User said:


> If you haven't ridden it, how will it grow on you other than as a work of art?



I never thought of that...thanks for pointing it out.

I might try riding it and see if that works better.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Apr 2015)

I rode mine around in very windy Denmark yesterday (Bilund) and nearly needed the reduced gearing to keep it moving on the flat! At one point into the wind up a reasonable slope a stealth peloton of Danish roadies suddenly engulfed me .... I accelerated and clung to their wheels for a while* And got some much needed shelter!
The return leg was top gear all the way back to the ranch. :-)



*about 50 metres ....


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## Kempston (22 Apr 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> Decided to hang on to it and see if it grows on me. I haven't ridden it again since the first time though - been on the Tern.



Yup. Ride it enough and you might eventually force yourself to be convinced that it was worth the additional premium and that it was money well spent. It appears to be a common theme with Brompton owners.


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## jefmcg (24 Apr 2015)

I'm not sure if this has been said upthread by someone else but: I'm not a fan of Bromptons, so I didn't buy one. 

(Didn't like the ride, but also didn't like the bike and how common it was. This was 7 years ago. They are everywhere now.)

Edit: Of course, it I'd got a Brompton maybe this wouldn't have happened. Probably not, but only because it's unlikely I'd have put 15,000km on a Brompton. Also, I would not be leaving a Brompton outside a supermarket, so I probably would have walked; too close to be arsed faffing around with carrying it in the supermarket.


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## Fab Foodie (24 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I'm not sure if this has been said upthread by someone else but: I'm not a fan of Bromptons, so I didn't buy one.
> 
> (Didn't like the ride, but also didn't like the bike and how common it was. This was 7 years ago. They are everywhere now.)


yeah even i got one mister ....


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## Pale Rider (26 Apr 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> I rode mine around in very windy Denmark yesterday (Bilund).



The home of Lego, if I recall.

Hard to link that to a Brompton, but I suppose they are both brilliantly successful world class products.


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## Fab Foodie (26 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> The home of Lego, if I recall.
> 
> Hard to link that to a Brompton, but I suppose they are both brilliantly successful world class products.


Right on both counts!


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## The Jogger (27 Apr 2015)

That's not fair, the Brompton I'm about to pick up, hasn't got a rack.


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## Kempston (27 Apr 2015)

JC4LAB said:


> Whats not to like about a Brompton..Its only the price...but then it is a big sting..
> If you dont like brompton and its only price that matters surely these must be the cheapest folding bikes you can get
> https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/hybrid-bikes/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1



Any potential folding bike customer needs to find a sensible balance between cost, material quality, build quality, fold and overall ride quality. Spending £120 on a folding bike doesn't really make any more sense than spending £1200+ on a Brompaton without doing research into the alternatives. It's almost inevitable that there will be quality issues at that price.


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## CharlieB (27 Apr 2015)

JC4LAB said:


> Whats not to like about a Brompton..Its only the price...but then it is a big sting..
> If you dont like brompton and its only price that matters surely these must be the cheapest folding bikes you can get
> https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/hybrid-bikes/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1


17½kg? Sheesh!


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## StuAff (28 Apr 2015)

17.5kg? What's the frame made of- U-235? Even the old hybrid I used to have was a lot lighter than that. Chutney (admittedly a high-end folder with new price to match) comes in at about 10 kg, with pedals. Well, it's a whole 11 kg now it's got a rack on- and that's with a DualDrive hub and 27 gears. I doubt 'quality issues' begin to cover that thing.....


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## CharlieB (28 Apr 2015)

StuAff said:


> 17.5kg? What's the frame made of- U-235? Even the old hybrid I used to have was a lot lighter than that. Chutney (admittedly a high-end folder with new price to match) comes in at about 10 kg, with pedals. Well, it's a whole 11 kg now it's got a rack on- and that's with a DualDrive hub and 27 gears. I doubt 'quality issues' begin to cover that thing.....


No, @StuAff, they definitely said it was a lightweight frame. 
Must be the osmium wheels. 


Now one of the more scientific among us will come online to tell me osmium is unstable or something …


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## Flying Dodo (28 Apr 2015)

User said:


> There is only one solution, buy one and dilute the douchement quotient.


A homeopathic bike? Do you think the HMRC Cycle to Work scheme covers that?


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## mikee7 (9 May 2015)

My wife and myself purchased new Bromptons two years and love them,we used to have mountain bikes but they were a pain to keep loading on the car,we mainly ride trails on a regular basis which include,The Camel Trail Cornwall from Bodmin to Padstow-Derby Peak trails including High Peak,Tissington,Monsal and Monyash plus in Leicestershire Rutland Water,we have never had any problems riding these routes,both bike have the C bag on at all times to carry gear,I did put better quality tyres on and changed to low ratio gears,the bikes are both 3 speed and handle all the routes we ride with ease,usually have tyre pressure around 85psi we seems to suit both bikes with our set up.


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## TheDoctor (10 May 2015)

CharlieB said:


> No, @StuAff, they definitely said it was a lightweight frame.
> Must be the osmium wheels.
> 
> 
> Now one of the more scientific among us will come online to tell me osmium is unstable or something …


You called? 
Osmium is perfectly stable - it's not a transuranic heavy element which may not be used where there is life (/ Sapphire and Steel). It is brittle, as metals go, so not the best thing for a wheel IMHO.


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## Flying Dodo (10 May 2015)

I commented a few pages back about how over-engineered Bromptons are. Now, I'll admit I do like them, but another daft thing about them is the incredibly fiddly saddle clamp for which you need about 3 hands to line everything up correctly to clamp onto the seat rails. Why?


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## Flying Dodo (10 May 2015)

Try taking your saddle off, removing the clamp and then try to fit it back on again.


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## Fab Foodie (10 May 2015)

Flying Dodo said:


> Try taking your saddle off, removing the clamp and then try to fit it back on again.


I do it every trime I box it for travel .... it's pretty simple!


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## Fab Foodie (10 May 2015)

mikee7 said:


> My wife and myself purchased new Bromptons two years and love them,we used to have mountain bikes but they were a pain to keep loading on the car,we mainly ride trails on a regular basis which include,The Camel Trail Cornwall from Bodmin to Padstow-Derby Peak trails including High Peak,Tissington,Monsal and Monyash plus in Leicestershire Rutland Water,we have never had any problems riding these routes,both bike have the C bag on at all times to carry gear,I did put better quality tyres on and changed to low ratio gears,the bikes are both 3 speed and handle all the routes we ride with ease,usually have tyre pressure around 85psi we seems to suit both bikes with our set up.



Great aren't they?
I've just done my first cycle camping weekend on mine. 60 mile ride with full camping kit along NCN 5 from Oxford to Long Itchington .... including mud-plugging along a large portion of the muddiest canal paths available.
Loaded as shown it went like a dream. 
Also of use was the fact the bike, bags, me and all went inside my Vango Banshee 200 tiny tent without issue. 
What a machine!


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## Mad Doug Biker (11 May 2015)

Very interesting thread, I have always vaguely thought about getting a folder, so this has been useful, thanks!


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## Tojo (11 May 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Very interesting thread, I have always vaguely thought about getting a folder, so this has been useful, thanks!



I suppose they are quite handy if you want to get on a north sea ferry with it in a suitcase and book a cycle on on the way back and have it full of contriband booze and tab's.......


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## Pale Rider (11 May 2015)

Flying Dodo said:


> I commented a few pages back about how over-engineered Bromptons are. Now, I'll admit I do like them, but another daft thing about them is the incredibly fiddly saddle clamp for which you need about 3 hands to line everything up correctly to clamp onto the seat rails. Why?



The seat post on a Brompton is flared at the bottom to prevent you yanking it out every time you unfold the bike.

In order for the seat post to be removed - to fit a longer one or if it's damaged - it must come out of the bottom of the frame.

The top of the tube has to be plain gauge to allow it to drop out.

Thus the saddle clamp must be designed to be entirely removable.

It may be fiddly - I've never touched mine, but I suspect most owners set it only once.


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## Mad Doug Biker (11 May 2015)

Tojo said:


> I suppose they are quite handy if you want to get on a north sea ferry with it in a suitcase and book a cycle on on the way back and have it full of contriband booze and tab's.......



Sounds like the voice of experience to me!! 

Useful as folding bikes are, and as much as I would like one, I have always thought of them as being a bit.... Well, ugly. 

I'll have to find one that looks remotely sensible!!


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## Flying Dodo (11 May 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> The seat post on a Brompton is flared at the bottom to prevent you yanking it out every time you unfold the bike.
> 
> In order for the seat post to be removed - to fit a longer one or if it's damaged - it must come out of the bottom of the frame.
> 
> ...



If you're swapping saddles, it's a real pain. There's no mechanical reason for it to be so, as I've removed saddles of other bikes which have a similar seat tube. There's several washers which delight in spinning round when they shouldn't.


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## shouldbeinbed (11 May 2015)

Flying Dodo said:


> Try taking your saddle off, removing the clamp and then try to fit it back on again.


I dont have any problems with it. Clever piece of kit that is another means of adjusting the saddle height.


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## Tojo (12 May 2015)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I'll have to find one that looks remotely sensible!!



That maybe easier said than done, Its a recurring nightmare I have about going to the circus when I was a kid and one of the clowns were riding one, I'm glad of that as I don't like clowns, I was transfixed how ugly the bike was, but unfortunately I'm getting the nightmares about the feking bike......


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## Mad Doug Biker (12 May 2015)

Tojo said:


> That maybe easier said than done, Its a recurring nightmare I have about going to the circus when I was a kid and one of the clowns were riding one, I'm glad of that as I don't like clowns, I was transfixed how ugly the bike was, but unfortunately I'm getting the nightmares about the feking bike......



Nothing wrong with clowns, only people in make up. The bikes though, yes.....


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## steveindenmark (12 May 2015)

All these little fiddly things is what you sit and practice in the living room on cold Winter nights. It is how you get to know your bike. Then you get to realise how simple it is. :0)


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## Mad Doug Biker (14 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> All these little fiddly things is what you sit and practice in the living room on cold Winter nights. It is how you get to know your bike. Then you get to realise how simple it is. :0)



Are you really talking about your bike or something else?!


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## dellzeqq (14 May 2015)

colmac2000 said:


> Thanks for the responses. I'm aware that my first post here is a bit negative but I needed to vent
> 
> In response to some of the comments - I did try before buying...but just a quick run around the bike shop car park - not really enough to find the issues I have found since picking up my actual bike. I was largely going on the reputation for quality - it just never occurred to me I would have an issue. When I discussed it with the guy in the shop he said nobody else had ever complained about anything to do with the Brompton ever and he has sold about 10 a day for the last 40 years (I may be exaggerating slightly). I'm the first person ever in the history of time to not completely love them, he said.
> .


not true - it's a great idea heavily compromised by poor detailing.

On the plus side it is quick to fold, and will go under a desk. You can take it on trains. You can carry a ton of shopping on the back rack, and the rear carrier is capacious - albeit poorly detailed. The saddle is much improved. Depreciation is low.

On the down side the right pedals are still poor (although an improvement on the ones that came with my first Brompton, which were 50p speshuls) and, yes, you will ground them on corners if you're having fun. The drive chain is really poor, the frame can bend (even if you're a lightweight), and the standard (Kojak?) tyres are poor. The ride is lousy, but it's not there to be ridden in the same way as road bike.

In short it's overpriced, but, hey, once you've paid for it, and got used to it's limitations, it's very nice to have around.


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## dellzeqq (14 May 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> I would recommend the lower gearing option (44t Chainring) Been back in Bristol with mine tonight with the lowered gearing since my last visit - much better on the hills, much more usable.


can I recommend the higher gear option, particularly with the six speed? Top still isn't much use on a long downhill, but it's just great on a flat road when you're in company.


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## dellzeqq (14 May 2015)

oh - and you can wear nice clothes when riding it. Which is good. Mooching down the Boulevard Saint-Michel or around the Forum wearing tweed, brogues with a Max Mara handbag over the handlebars (not me, her, obvs) is tourism a la mode.


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## Fab Foodie (15 May 2015)

dellzeqq said:


> can I recommend the higher gear option, particularly with the six speed? Top still isn't much use on a long downhill, but it's just great on a flat road when you're in company.


You can.


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## cisamcgu (15 May 2015)

I went for the lower geared option, and whilst I agree that the highest gear is now relatively low and not much use on a long downhill, it is super for getting to the top of the afore mentioned hill. Anyway I tend to freewheel on any and all downhill stretches.


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## Pale Rider (15 May 2015)

Lower gears for me, but I am a relatively weak cyclist with no interest in high speed.

I've not got a speedo on my Brommie, but I reckon even with lower gears I can do 20mph in top, using my usual modest cadence.


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## Kell (3 Mar 2017)

Kempston said:


> Odd. I've never been passed by anyone on a Brompton. I've passed plenty of them though, both on my old Tern Link and on the Tern Joe P24 I have now. The latter is an unfair comparison though as it looks and rides like a standard full size mountain bike, no Brompton owner has a hope of keeping up unless they're a cyclist of very high quality. It needs to be said though that I cycle at a fair old speed. In my view, if you're not making an effort and out of breath, it defeats half the object of cycling. Cycling as exercise is as important to me as cycling to get from A to B, whether it's on a folder or not.



Sorry to have to pull you up on this, but what a load of old tosh.

I think it's probably true to say that *most *Bromptons are bought to ride slowly, and upright around town. Normally in work clothes, so the riders aren't intending to get up a sweat. Perhaps because you're going for it and they're not, that's why you're passing them. Or perhaps you're just a better/fitter/faster cyclist.

But where I know from personal experience that you're talking rubbish is that I only bought my Brompton after both of my Dahons cracked their frames. Like you, I see my commute as pretty much my only form of exercise, so I tend to push myself and go as fast as possible.

Because of that, I've been using Strava for years and I know for a fact that my Brompton is at least as quick as either Dahon - both 26" wheeled Matrix bikes with 20+ gears. Any of the PBs on sections have now been surpassed with ones I've done on my Brompton. The only ones I haven't claimed are ones I set on the few occasions I brought in my road bike.

It's certainly true that plenty of people I pass on my Brompton are surprised that I'm doing it. Partly, I guess, because it's a Brompton and partly because I'm 45 and 16 stone.

Unlike the OP, I actively didn't want to buy a Brompton. I thought they looked silly with their little wheels and at the time I got my first folder (2007), they looked very very old-fashioned with their choice of colours and leather Brooks saddles. however, by the time I'd wasted around £1500 on my two Dahons which ended up getting binned, the range was vastly improved, looked much better and started to tempt me. At £1080, I'd confidently say it's better value than the Dahon I spent £800 on.

And for all the comments that have said it's the default choice or that people are sheep for wanting them - I started the process NOT wanting one and looked at as many alternatives as possible before deciding that the reason so many people choose them is that they're the best tool for the job.

Do I love everything about it? No. I still think an internal hub and a chain pusher to achieve just six gears is arcane. The shfters themselves are rubbish. But for me, there's no better bike for my needs.

I have made some slight changes though. I've put low rise, wider bars on so mine is probably more stable than a sit up and beg M type. I've lost a little of the ability to thread through London traffic as the bars are now about 1-2 inches wider than an M-type, but what I've ended up with is a bike that I'm happy to tackle a 40mph+ downhill on (topped out at around 44mph), is as fast as my other folders, is far more useful for putting on a train - especially when crowded, is the only bike that would go in the boot of my convertible Mini when I drive to the station at the home end of my journey (the Dahons had to go in the back seat and I had to drive with the hroof down) and a bike that I've become a massive advocate of.


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## Kell (3 Mar 2017)

User said:


> You do realise that you are disagreeing with a post that is nearly two years old, posted by someone last seen 18 months ago?



i hadn't realised the thread was that old


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## Kell (3 Mar 2017)

In fairness, if anyone new reads the thread now that it's active again, then at least they'll see a rebuttal to the argument.


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## velovoice (4 Mar 2017)

Kell said:


> In fairness, if anyone new reads the thread now that it's active again, then at least they'll see a rebuttal to the argument.


Or maybe -- like me, who remembers the original thread -- they'll wonder what the hell that 'rebuttal' was all about. Especially given the fresh posts that triggered the alert that brought me here.


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## chriscross1966 (4 Mar 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> All these little fiddly things is what you sit and practice in the living room on cold Winter nights. It is how you get to know your bike. Then you get to realise how simple it is. :0)



Along with getting a mirror to practice the condescending look that combines both pity and contempt to be used when looking at a non-Brompton folder


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