# Nutritional values



## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

I have been looking at the nutritional value of real food vs energy gels/ bars. I looked at the usual suspects like flapjacks, fig rolls, peanut butter sandwich, Jelly babies, wine gums, banana. I compared them to High 5 bars and gels.

The energy bars seen to have roughly the same amount of calories and carbs per 100g as these real foods but with a lot less sugar than the sweets and a lot less fat compared to the peanut butter sandwich, flapjacks and fig rolls.

The gels have less calories similar carbs, a lot less sugar and next to no fat compared to the real foods.

Bananas did seem better nutritionally but you would need to eat 300g bananas to 100g of gels to get roughly the same energy which is a lot of banana!

My question is than other than price what reason/s would you choose real food when for performance the gels/bars seem better, they also seem better for the calorie conscience out there?


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## MikeW-71 (26 Mar 2014)

I make up my own flapjacks - I can put what I want in them, rather than what someone else thinks is a good idea.

IMHO, Gels are fine for racing, (I'll take one with me for emergencies, as they seem to get to work a bit quicker), but for most people real food is the best thing you can take with you.


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Bananas did seem *better nutritionally* but you would need to eat 300g bananas to 100g of gels to get roughly the same energy which is a lot of banana!
> 
> My question is than other than price what reason/s would you choose real food?



I think you may have answered your own questions. If you want energy take gels, drink energy/sports drinks and red bull, don't forget to add a performance stimulant like Caffeine. All these options provide vast amounts of energy however they provide sod all nutrients your body needs.
however if you want to provide your body with the nutrition it requires and be healthy and strong you should look towards real food.


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## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

MikeW-71 said:


> I make up my own flapjacks - I can put what I want in them, rather than what someone else thinks is a good idea.
> 
> IMHO, Gels are fine for racing, (I'll take one with me for emergencies, as they seem to get to work a bit quicker), but for most people real food is the best thing you can take with you.



Make your own flapjacks I couldnt account for as I dont have any details about these but im sure with the know how these can be tailored to each persons taste/ need. What I am unsure about is that a majority seem to always say real food is better but im not sure why?

Personally I have always taken jelly babies or flapjacks out with me but will try gels/bars this weekend to see if I notice any difference. This is the first time I have actually looked into the nutrition side of things.


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## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I think you may have answered your own questions. If you want energy take gels, drink energy/sports drinks and red bull, don't forget to add a performance stimulant like Caffeine. All these options provide vast amounts of energy however they provide sod all nutrients your body needs.
> however if you want to provide your body with the nutrition it requires and be healthy and strong you should look towards real food.



I wouldnt ever have Red Bull, relentless or any of those types of drinks. In terms of sugar I am also wary of too much so will try to have as little as possible.
Just comparing a banana to say an Apple energy gel per 100g;
Banana- Calories- 89. Carbs- 23g. Sugar-12g. Fat- 0.3g
Gel- Calories- 288. Carbs- 72g. Sugar- 15. Fat- 0g

So gel actually does not have much more sugar than a banana but 3 times the amount of carbs which I understand is the most important for energy. Ok there are more calories in the gel but it would be difficult to carry enough bananas to match the gel. The other items I mentioned flapjacks, jelly babies etc... could be just as easy to carry as gels but they have higher amounts of sugar and fat so I can only conclude that gels/bars are better. This is of course all based on theory so am looking forward to trying it out at the weekend to see if I can see/feel any difference.


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## The Brewer (26 Mar 2014)

My current fad is chia seeds hydrated and mixed with honey.... seems to work for 50-70miles


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> So gel actually does not have much more sugar than a banana but 3 times the amount of carbs which I understand is the most important for energy.



My point was not disputing this fact but establishing it further. If your looking exclusively for energy why exclude sugar as it is without doubt an exceptionally effective form of carbohydrate energy and is the basic ingredients a gel contains.
You state that you are wary of to much sugar yet the main ingredients of Gels like High 5 are maltodextrin (which the body breaks down into glucose), Glucose Sugars, Caffeine

Maltodextrin is also bad for you....


> maltodextrin is just as bad, sometimes worse, as having sugar. Easily absorbed carbs like maltodextrin and sugar get into your bloodstream fast. If there is nothing for all that blood sugar to do (i.e. repair muscle-tissue, give energy), it will get stored as fat. Contrast that with real complex carbs from whole grains, which are broken down and absorbed slowly, and maltodextrin looks more and more like sugar.


http://fitnessfortravel.com/is-maltodextrin-bad-for-you/



> The leading side effect of the ingredient is gaining weight. The weight gain is usually as a result of maltodextrin high calorie content.





> Rise of cholesterol levels is among the maltodextrin side effects


http://maltodextrinsideeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/what-you-need-to-know-about.html

So basically a gel is a refined flavoroured sugary goo with additional added stimulants like caffeine and little or no nutritional value and questionable health benefits.... Personally I would take the Banana with its slow release natural carb source and a healthy dose of potassium to help the bodys electrolite balance and reduce blood pressure to name but a few of the attributes.

Why on earth would anyone take a gel in preference.


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## ayceejay (26 Mar 2014)

You are comparing energy gels to 'real food' you say and then list these real foods as :
flapjacks, fig rolls, peanut butter sandwich, Jelly babies, wine gums, banana.
I see a problem from the beginning don't you?


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## ColinJ (26 Mar 2014)

ayceejay said:


> You are comparing energy gels to 'real food' you say and then list these real foods as :
> flapjacks, fig rolls, peanut butter sandwich, Jelly babies, wine gums, banana.
> I see a problem from the beginning don't you?


I _would_ classify a banana as 'real food'!


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## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> My point was not disputing this fact but establishing it further. If your looking exclusively for energy why exclude sugar as it is without doubt an exceptionally effective form of carbohydrate energy and is the basic ingredients a gel contains.
> You state that you are wary of to much sugar yet the main ingredients of Gels like High 5 are maltodextrin (which the body breaks down into glucose), Glucose Sugars, Caffeine
> 
> Maltodextrin is also bad for you....
> ...



Ah this makes sense, I knew nothing about maltodextrin. When you compare nutritional values at face value (based on values listed on their website) gels appeared better hence my post questioning why real food seems to be the preference. Would the maltodextrin in the 2:1 fructose sports drinks have the same issues? They claim this type of sports drink allows you to take on more carbs per hour.

As I understand you need between 30-60g of carbs per hour when cycling, I assume the variation depends on the effort. So based on that you would need between 4-8 medium bananas for a 4 hour ride. This is a lot to carry let alone eat! The article states _'If there is nothing for all that blood sugar to do (i.e. repair muscle-tissue, give energy), it will get stored as fat.' _does that then mean there is a certain amount of maltodextrin which can be utilised by the body before it begins to store as fat? Could it then be beneficial to have a combination of bananas and gels?

I promise im not being difficult just want to understand my nutrition better


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## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

ayceejay said:


> You are comparing energy gels to 'real food' you say and then list these real foods as :
> flapjacks, fig rolls, peanut butter sandwich, Jelly babies, wine gums, banana.
> I see a problem from the beginning don't you?



Sorry I dont follow? These are just an example of food not specifically designed for performance that I have been told or read as common food used on rides.


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## Julia9054 (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> . . . would be difficult to carry enough bananas to match the gel.


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## MikeW-71 (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Make your own flapjacks I couldnt account for as I dont have any details about these but im sure with the know how these can be tailored to each persons taste/ need. What I am unsure about is that a majority seem to always say real food is better but im not sure why?


Flapjacks - easiest things to make ever 

The majority aren't racers. There is a point where you are riding hard enough that you just can't eat solid food. In that situation, you can suck down a gel or slow down enough to be able to eat solids. Slowing down isn't terribly attractive at a critical point of a race, not so much on a leisure ride or Sportive.


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Ah this makes sense, I knew nothing about maltodextrin. When you compare nutritional values at face value (based on values listed on their website) gels appeared better hence my post questioning why real food seems to be the preference. Would the maltodextrin in the 2:1 fructose sports drinks have the same issues? They claim this type of sports drink allows you to take on more carbs per hour.
> 
> As I understand you need between 30-60g of carbs per hour when cycling, I assume the variation depends on the effort. So based on that you would need between 4-8 medium bananas for a 4 hour ride. This is a lot to carry let alone eat! The article states _'If there is nothing for all that blood sugar to do (i.e. repair muscle-tissue, give energy), it will get stored as fat.' _does that then mean there is a certain amount of maltodextrin which can be utilised by the body before it begins to store as fat? Could it then be beneficial to have a combination of bananas and gels?
> 
> I promise im not being difficult just want to understand my nutrition better



Fructose is not the same as maltodextrin. Fructose is a straight sugar derived from fruit.. It is widely used in the fizzy drinks industry specially in america as people select things based on words they understand such as sugar. Fructose it is claimed is partly responsible for Americas current obesity issues and many people have concerns regarding health with claims that large doses increase your chance of cancer.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/21/fructose-poison-sugar-industry-pseudoscience

I'm not of the belief that gels are truely a bad thing in moderation, but I personally do not depend upon them. I enjoy dried nuts, dates and home made flap jacks.. The biggest reason is that I know exactly what goes into it and my choice is natural substances. I put honey in my flap jacks, but I know this comes from bee's. I also use Cranberries and things I can relate to the natural world.
Maltodextrin requires an extensive process to manufacture. It is refined and produced and like many others I have concerns over its use and the use of Fructose.

I would advise googling the ingredients to see what they really are and how the ingredients are produced as well as googling for 'flapjacks for cyclists' try a few, spend some time tweaking them for your needs and tastes and eat heathy.


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## Dave Carey (26 Mar 2014)

MikeW-71 said:


> Flapjacks - easiest things to make ever
> 
> The majority aren't racers. There is a point where you are riding hard enough that you just can't eat solid food. In that situation, you can suck down a gel or slow down enough to be able to eat solids. Slowing down isn't terribly attractive at a critical point of a race, not so much on a leisure ride or Sportive.



The few pre made flapjacks I have looked at seem to contain a lot of fat and sugar. I take it if you make them yourself you can control this a bit better so you get the optimum carbs with less sugar and fat? Do you happen to have an easy flapjack recipe?


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Mar 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> The few pre made flapjacks I have looked at seem to contain a lot of fat and sugar. I take it if you make them yourself you can control this a bit better so you get the optimum carbs with less sugar and fat? Do you happen to have an easy flapjack recipe?



I often do a tweaked variation of these..
http://myworldontwowheels.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/cycling-nutrition-the-best-ever-flapjack-recipe/
http://cyclingcook.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/energy-food-challenge-banana-chocolate.html

Just pop them in a pound shop sandwich bag and your sorted

I would not personally listen to the suggestions that you need a certain about of carbs per hour or anything else for maximum performance, I think its important to listen to your body, it will let you know when you need to hydrate by making you thirsty. It will crave things missing from your diet... If you start craving chocolate and sweet things, its the sugar the body wants - a quick hit of carbs. If this happens increase the volume of oats and quality slow release carbs in your diet.
There is no quick fix for anyone but I do believe in making better choices although this is not easy at times.


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## MikeW-71 (26 Mar 2014)

Pre-made ones may also have extra preservatives etc. 

The recipe I use:
250g butter
8 tablespoons golden syrup
250g porridge oats
handful of mixed chopped nuts
handful of raisins

Put butter and syrup into a bowl, into microwave for 2 mins to melt them and mix well. Add nuts and raisins then begin adding oats a bit at a time, mixing well. Add enough so it becomes a very stiff mixture with no spare liquid. Empty mix into a shallow tin lined with baking paper, pack it down firmly and then put into a pre-heated oven at 170 degrees for between 20 and 30 mins until the top is a golden brown colour. Take out and allow to cool overnight, then cut into bars and wrap up in foil to go in your pockets 

That gets me 12-16 bars.


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## Dave Carey (27 Mar 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Fructose is not the same as maltodextrin. Fructose is a straight sugar derived from fruit.. It is widely used in the fizzy drinks industry specially in america as people select things based on words they understand such as sugar. Fructose it is claimed is partly responsible for Americas current obesity issues and many people have concerns regarding health with claims that large doses increase your chance of cancer.
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/21/fructose-poison-sugar-industry-pseudoscience
> 
> I'm not of the belief that gels are truely a bad thing in moderation, but I personally do not depend upon them. I enjoy dried nuts, dates and home made flap jacks.. The biggest reason is that I know exactly what goes into it and my choice is natural substances. I put honey in my flap jacks, but I know this comes from bee's. I also use Cranberries and things I can relate to the natural world.
> ...




I definitely will be trying out some home made flapjacks. Thanks for the insight I appreciate it, with so many options its hard to tell whats what


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Mar 2014)

If you find all the answers let me know (I'm still learning).. I do find nutrition a really interesting subject though.
My own thoughts so far is basically try to make better and healthier choices and avoid as much as possible highly processed foods.

Im actually moving largely to a Pescetarianism style diet, not through any real desire or intent but because I am now listening to what my body wants and it seems to be fish based protein sources rather than meat.


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## Rob3rt (27 Mar 2014)

What's wrong with fats?

Being realistic here, most people could get away with just eating the dust and fluff from their jersey pockets!


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## fossyant (27 Mar 2014)

For general cycling and training, just eat 'proper food'. You'll only really need any energy drrinks if going much further, with limited time for a stop, or indeed racing. I use diluted energy drinks on longer rides of over 30 miles with no stops. I'd only use a few gels as a supplement to 'real' food on a long sportive. If I was not in an event, but riding 100 miles, I'd stop at a cafe.

You just don't need anything other than real food for general cycling. I think I've bought about 8 gels in my whole life !


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## ayceejay (27 Mar 2014)

My previous post was a bit enigmatic so I will try to explain myself.
The body needs glucose to survive, glucose gives us the energy to perform. all food is converted into glucose by the digestive system (this is obviously the shortened version).
Real 'real food' contains enough glucose for regular needs and then some, what is not needed for immediate use is stored in the body. Carbohydrate is another name for sugar, in its simple form like a gel or a sugar cube it is quickly absorbed into the system and gives an immediate boost to the blood sugar level and the effect, although short is helpful in an emergency. Complex carbs give out their benefits slower, fats and fibre will also slow down the absorption as will small amounts of protein. 
In other words, if you eat a balanced diet of natural food you will not normally need any supplements to get you through your ride but it makes sense to carry some glucose just in case you misjudge it.


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## Dave Carey (27 Mar 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> What's wrong with fats?
> 
> Being realistic here, most people could get away with just eating the dust and fluff from their jersey pockets!



Nothing wrong with fat in moderation I just dont want too much of it in my diet. unfortunately I put weight on just looking at a burger!


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## Dave Carey (27 Mar 2014)

ayceejay said:


> My previous post was a bit enigmatic so I will try to explain myself.
> The body needs glucose to survive, glucose gives us the energy to perform. all food is converted into glucose by the digestive system (this is obviously the shortened version).
> Real 'real food' contains enough glucose for regular needs and then some, what is not needed for immediate use is stored in the body. Carbohydrate is another name for sugar, in its simple form like a gel or a sugar cube it is quickly absorbed into the system and gives an immediate boost to the blood sugar level and the effect, although short is helpful in an emergency. Complex carbs give out their benefits slower, fats and fibre will also slow down the absorption as will small amounts of protein.
> In other words, if you eat a balanced diet of natural food you will not normally need any supplements to get you through your ride but it makes sense to carry some glucose just in case you misjudge it.



Thanks for the explanation its all starting to make sense. So something like flapjacks made up mainly of oats and fruit which I think are complex carbs would be better than the gels/ bars. However it may be worth carrying a couple of gels with me just in case?

Just to give some background into my rides. At the moment I generally ride between 40-60 miles averaging around 17 mph if im on my own, a bit faster with others. I will gradually be increasing my mileage aiming to do 100 miles in August. On a 60 mile ride I will stop twice for a couple of minutes each time to eat, not because I need a break but as im not racing there is no need for me to eat whilst riding. This is why I have started looking at nutrition, I want to make sure I am adequately fueled as my mileage increases.


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## cyberknight (27 Mar 2014)

Only thing i dont like about bananas is they give me the burps so not good as a riding fuel for me ,i prefer real food and my current fave is nutrigrain elevenses bars .


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## ayceejay (27 Mar 2014)

That would be my suggestion Dave. If you are having to consume food while riding chewing a flap jack would need some practice but if you are stopping then this is not a problem. Remember also to take water along and refill when you stop and (not wanting to contradict Mr H) drink (sip) even when you don't feel thirsty.


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## Dave Carey (27 Mar 2014)

ayceejay said:


> That would be my suggestion Dave. If you are having to consume food while riding chewing a flap jack would need some practice but if you are stopping then this is not a problem. Remember also to take water along and refill when you stop and (not wanting to contradict Mr H) drink (sip) even when you don't feel thirsty.



I think im ok with drinking I tend to have x2 800ml bottles, one with water, one with high 5 zero which I do drink from every 15 minutes or so. Though I do need to plan where I can refill these once my mileage begins to increase.


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## LarryDuff (28 Mar 2014)

Another important point is that a lot of the gels are utterly vile. I prefer to eat something that I actually like.


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## palinurus (29 Mar 2014)

fossyant said:


> You just don't need anything other than real food for general cycling. I think I've bought about 8 gels in my whole life !



The only time I've ever had gels is when doing longer time trials. That's twice. Now I've given up competitive cycling I'll stick to eating whatever I like rather than whatever I can get down without puking/ slowing down.


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## Rob3rt (29 Mar 2014)

palinurus said:


> The only time I've ever had gels is when doing longer time trials. That's twice. Now I've given up competitive cycling I'll stick to eating whatever I like rather than whatever I can *get down without puking/ slowing down.*



lol, that is not guarenteed with gels either, I've puked (and had several close calls) in a 25 after necking a gel, didn't slow down though


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## Dave Carey (30 Mar 2014)

Its funny after this whole thread I was saved by a gel this morning. Had flapjacks for most of my ride but got lost on a new route which meant the route was extended further than planned. Was so glad I brought a gel with me to get me home!


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## Cuchilo (30 Mar 2014)

Oh well this is just great ! 
I've just followed Mr H's flapjack tips as I was just about to take a roast chicken out of the oven . It seemed quick to do and it was . Even quicker to eat hot flapjack ! Now I don't feel like a roast dinner . 
I did it with honey btw .


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## wait4me (2 Apr 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Thanks for the explanation its all starting to make sense. So something like flapjacks made up mainly of oats and fruit which I think are complex carbs would be better than the gels/ bars. However it may be worth carrying a couple of gels with me just in case?
> 
> Just to give some background into my rides.* At the moment I generally ride between 40-60 miles averaging around 17 mph if im on my own, a bit faster with others*. I will gradually be increasing my mileage aiming to do 100 miles in August. On a 60 mile ride I will stop twice for a couple of minutes each time to eat, not because I need a break but as im not racing there is no need for me to eat whilst riding. This is why I have started looking at nutrition, I want to make sure I am adequately fueled as my mileage increases.



Never mind what your body _needs. _Just tell me what your diet is now!


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## Dave Carey (5 Apr 2014)

Does anyone know if there is a formula to work out how long it takes for different carbs to become ready to be used as energy?


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## RussellZero (5 Apr 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Its funny after this whole thread I was saved by a gel this morning. Had flapjacks for most of my ride but got lost on a new route which meant the route was extended further than planned. Was so glad I brought a gel with me to get me home!



I'm pretty sure you would have made it without the gel as well ;-)


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## Dave Carey (5 Apr 2014)

RussellZero said:


> I'm pretty sure you would have made it without the gel as well ;-)



Im not so sure, I felt like I had almost nothing left in my legs


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## RussellZero (5 Apr 2014)

Dave Carey said:


> Im not so sure, I felt like I had almost nothing left in my legs



Quite often thats just down to dehydration, did you drink plenty of water?


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Apr 2014)

Carbohydrate is the high grade fuel for your muscles. Unfortunately your body can only store a limited amount of carbohydrate even High5 the company which produces your gell at choice makes no reccomendation at for the consumption of gels in non compeditive rides of 40-60 miles and they even state "_BUT TAKE CARE! Research suggests that if you consume more than 60g per hour of the carbohydrates found in traditional* sport drinks, it will not be absorbed._"

Sorry to say but unless you have an appealing diet I am of the same opinion as @RussellZero and you would have been fine. It sounds to me as if you have a comfort blanket in the gels. It is OK to suffer and part of cycling, we all have hard days. Have you discovered what happens if you do not take a gel?



> _“I have always struggled to achieve excellence. One thing that cycling has taught me is that if you can achieve something without a struggle it’s not going to be satisfying.”_ — *Greg Lemond*


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## Fab Foodie (5 Apr 2014)

LarryDuff said:


> Another important point is that a lot of the gels are utterly vile. I prefer to eat something that I actually like.


Another important point is that gels don't fill your stomach.
Another important point is that an awful lot of bo11ocks is written about food, nutrition and sport
Another important point is that real FOOD is far nicer, better for you and widely available.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Apr 2014)

.... oh, and Dextrosol tablets do a pretty similar job for a fraction of the price and less packaging to litter the countryside with .... you can chuck 'em in your water bottle too ....


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## Dave Carey (6 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Carbohydrate is the high grade fuel for your muscles. Unfortunately your body can only store a limited amount of carbohydrate even High5 the company which produces your gell at choice makes no reccomendation at for the consumption of gels in non compeditive rides of 40-60 miles and they even state "_BUT TAKE CARE! Research suggests that if you consume more than 60g per hour of the carbohydrates found in traditional* sport drinks, it will not be absorbed._"
> 
> Sorry to say but unless you have an appealing diet I am of the same opinion as @RussellZero and you would have been fine. It sounds to me as if you have a comfort blanket in the gels. It is OK to suffer and part of cycling, we all have hard days. Have you discovered what happens if you do not take a gel?



Its actually the first time its happened so I had no previous experience to go on. I have only had gels a handful of times as I did not know the benefit of them if any, hence this post. I went out on a tough hilly ride today and didnt use any gels and was fine so I cant say I disagree with you.


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