# Knocked a cyclist off their bike? No problem...



## LCpl Boiled Egg (12 May 2016)

Just say it was a "lapse of concentration."

I mean, why would you need to concentrate at a junction?

http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/s...on_being_filmed_on_dashboard_camera_1_4531680


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## growingvegetables (12 May 2016)




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## Milkfloat (12 May 2016)

Even if she failed to see the bike, how did she not see the car that had priority that was turning into the junction? It is just a classic case of the police/cps/authorities not giving a crap because it is a motoring offence. As much as this is likely to upset people - I wonder how they will feel when it is a member of their family mown down by somebody that should not be on the road.


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## jefmcg (12 May 2016)

There no such thing as reporting any more. Where's the quote from the police or "the police refused to comment"? 

But on the face of it, the police seem to be saying "we can't charge her with driving without due care and attention because she told us she was driving without due care and attention."


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## Pale Rider (12 May 2016)

She has been cautioned, we are not told what for, but it can only be for careless driving.

As a matter of fact, a caution is not a 'let off', it will be forever recorded against her, but it is not a conviction.

As a matter of comment, I think 'let off' is a perfectly fair description in these circumstances.

There could be consequences, albeit relatively minor.

For example, if she does something similar again, a copper looking at that incident might think it eligible for a caution in isolation, but might decide to press ahead with a prosecution because of the existing caution on her record.

Some insurance proposals ask if the proposer has been 'convicted or cautioned' for any motoring offence within the last x years.


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## Lonestar (12 May 2016)

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/144...f_which_caused_school_run_chaos/?ref=mrb&lp=7

Not really sure where to post this link but this thread got me thinking of the standard of driving sometimes and the lack of courteous behaviour.Don't get me wrong...most of the time the backstreets I use are fine but there is just the occasional idiot.


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## glasgowcyclist (12 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> because it is a motoring offence



I'm all for rebranding it as 'road crime'.

GC


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## mjr (12 May 2016)

Chatteris is a pretty unpleasant place to ride a bike, in my limited experience (it was bad so I don't plan to visit again - nearby March is nicer, although still a bit scary). Motorists were pretty inconsiderate. If the local police are uninterested in prosecuting such a clear-cut case, that may be part of the cause.

...and I doubt this will dislodge Chatteris's Tesco "ghost store" from the long-running headlines there.


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## fossyant (12 May 2016)

No surprises there. Very similar happened to me. We are still chasing the cops about charges.


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## glenn forger (12 May 2016)

The cops are too busy sending tweets telling cyclists to wear helmets and hi vis.


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## ufkacbln (12 May 2016)

Lonestar said:


> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/144...f_which_caused_school_run_chaos/?ref=mrb&lp=7
> 
> Not really sure where to post this link but this thread got me thinking of the standard of driving sometimes and the lack of courteous behaviour.Don't get me wrong...most of the time the backstreets I use are fine but there is just the occasional idiot.





> Hugh Bladon, treasurer one of the founding members of the Alliance of British Drivers and their treasurer, said: “These things seem to come from the belligerent way that people have started to live their lives, there is an awful lot of aggression on the roads now that we did not see 20 or 30-years-ago."
> 
> “The roads have become more and more congested around the country and we are not building enough roads to cope with the traffic.
> 
> “This make people more frustrated and fed up, making the population less tolerant and less courteous.”



The Alliance of Bad Drivers....

The ones who don't want speed limits, feel that parking tickets are a "Jihad against motorists" and feel that marked Police cars enforcing motoring offences are a hazard that "kill thousands per year" because it forces "otherwise law abiding motorists" to look out for Police cars


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## ufkacbln (12 May 2016)

Not the first time cars have refused to give way either....

Beware .... language warning


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## Tanis8472 (12 May 2016)

Technically its the drivers, not the cars LOL


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## Tanis8472 (12 May 2016)

Looking at that, I would suggest the woman was in the wrong.


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## Roadrider48 (12 May 2016)

What a strange incident.


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## User16625 (13 May 2016)

_“and they said there will not be any charges pressed on the driver as it was a lapse of concentration”_

Based on how cosmologists talk about stuff not fully understood, I think this could be called "dark justice".


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## Pale Rider (13 May 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> What a strange incident.



Looks to me like a classic blind spot collision.

Most modern cars have thick windscreen pillars for safety.

The cyclist would have been obscured for a few metres from the view of a driver sitting still.

Women drivers tend to sit further forward due to generally being shorter than men.

Thus their eyes are closer to the pillar, increasing the blind spot effect.

None of which in any excuses what was a dreadful piece of driving.



RideLikeTheStig said:


> _“and they said there will not be any charges pressed on the driver as it was a lapse of concentration”_
> 
> Based on how cosmologists talk about stuff not fully understood, I think this could be called "dark justice".



She has been cautioned, which means she must have admitted careless driving.

Plenty of justified criticism of the police for cautioning offenders of all types of criminal behaviour who a reasonable person would say should be prosecuted.

To a point the tail is wagging the dog, the courts are already clogged and the CPS is creaking under the strain.

Cost comes into it, a prosecution is many times more expensive than a prosecution.

None of that has anything to do with 'justice', but it explains why there is pressure on the police to dispose of cases by cautioning rather than prosecuting.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/q562.htm


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Looks to me like a classic blind spot collision.


It must have been a pretty big blind spot for her to not see the car directly in front of her waiting for the cyclist to pass before turning in. I can understand being dozy enough to not see the cyclist, but to miss 2 tonnes of metal directly in front is very odd.


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## Tanis8472 (13 May 2016)

Not if she was waved out by other car. It happens very regularly outside my shop. There have been several crashes because of it.


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## Pale Rider (13 May 2016)

Tanis8472 said:


> Not if she was waved out by other car. It happens very regularly outside my shop. There have been several crashes because of it.



Very likely.

There's no evidence to suggest she did not see the stopped car, and while it's hard to tell from the camera angle I suspect she planned to make a right turn, passing in front of the stopped car.

If I'm riding towards a car waiting to come out of a side road, I will sometimes move left and right a bit to improve the driver's chances of seeing me.

Although it's not always safe to do that if there's traffic close behind.


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## Tanis8472 (13 May 2016)

I must say, those big pillars can obscure a whole car if you get the trajectory and speed right. I once nearly hit a land Rover discovery on a roundabout. I did not see it 

Only ever happened once. Other than that ice never had an accident or close call in the car.


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## Pale Rider (13 May 2016)

Tanis8472 said:


> I must say, those big pillars can obscure a whole car if you get the trajectory and speed right. I once nearly hit a land Rover discovery on a roundabout. I did not see it
> 
> Only ever happened once. Other than that ice never had an accident or close call in the car.



I agree roundabouts can be dodgy from that point of view.

If I'm in the outside lane - nearest the central island - it can be quite hard to track the kerb because it's obscured by the pillar.


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

Blimey - you lot scare me. Look at the video again. Do you really think that the car waiting to turn would have waved out another car that was 5 seconds away from the junction. Do you also not think that the person approaching the junction would not at least come to a virtual stop?


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## glenn forger (13 May 2016)

Did the driver exit the car at any point? Knock someone over and just sit there hoping it all goes away.


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## Pale Rider (13 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Blimey - you lot scare me. Look at the video again. Do you really think that the car waiting to turn would have waved out another car that was 5 seconds away from the junction. Do you also not think that the person approaching the junction would not at least come to a virtual stop?



The video I can see shows the car waiting to turn is stopped.

It shows numpty driver approach the junction, brake to an almost stop - the nose of her car dips - then she moves forward clouting the cyclist.

Fair to assume she moved because - probably unaware of the cyclist - she thought it safe to execute the turn.

Alternatively, she might have been aware of the cyclist and thought she could beat the bike across the junction.

We will never know why she thought it safe to pull forward, but a signal from the driver of the stopped car is as good an explanation as any.


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> We will never know why she thought it safe to pull forward, but a signal from the driver of the stopped car is as good an explanation as any.



Can you honestly think that a driver would wave another forward who is 5 seconds away from the junction? Maybe I am selfish, I would let out a driver who had been waiting there a long time, but certainly not one 50-100m up the road. 

Maybe you have it right, perhaps the mini driver really hates cyclists and tried to engineer the accident.


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## fossyant (13 May 2016)

Folk in too much of a rush to bother to look at least twice before pulling out.


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## Pale Rider (13 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Maybe you have it right, perhaps the mini driver really hates cyclists and tried to engineer the accident.



Needlessly sarcastic, but certainly in tune with the forum ethos of late.

Perhaps we can agree that numpty driver - for whatever reason - thought she could make her turn without hitting anything.


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Perhaps we can agree that numpty driver - for whatever reason - thought she could make her turn without hitting anything.



I would like to hope so, otherwise we really are confirming that she hates cyclists


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## Roadrider48 (13 May 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Looks to me like a classic blind spot collision.
> 
> Most modern cars have thick windscreen pillars for safety.
> 
> ...


I meant strange in a way the the driver seems to just get off with a caution.
It seems that no seriousness is attached to the situation atall by the police.


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## simon.r (13 May 2016)

I have an issue with the decision to prosecute (or not) being related to the actual consequences of an incident. 

This instance (the OP) could easily have resulted in serious injury and I think the driver should have been prosecuted on that basis, regardless of the actual outcome.

I used to work with a magistrate who told me the tale of how a driver was in front of the bench for mounting a kerb and hitting a lamppost. Because the driver was a nurse, who was tired after a long shift and no injuries were caused the magistrates let her off (I can't remember the specific outcome, but there was no significant punishment). I did point out to him that the lamppost could just as easily have been a pushchair with a young child in it, but I'm not convinced he got the point I was making.


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## Tommy2 (13 May 2016)

glenn forger said:


> Did the driver exit the car at any point? Knock someone over and just sit there hoping it all goes away.


I'm sure she gets straight out of the car but gets obscured by other people walking passed her door towards the cyclist.


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## Karlt (13 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Even if she failed to see the bike, how did she not see the car that had priority that was turning into the junction? .



I wonder if that car flashed her out so he could cut the corner?


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## spen666 (13 May 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> ...
> As a matter of fact, a caution is not a 'let off', ....





That is a matter of opinion not fact.

Some people would say it is a let off. others say it is not. It is a matter of opinion..
Some would say a £2000 fine was a let off others wouldn't


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

Karlt said:


> I wonder if that car flashed her out so he could cut the corner?



I think we covered that - you don't flash people out who are 5 seconds away from the junction, especially when they would not see you flashing as you are covering the junction.


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## shouldbeinbed (13 May 2016)

Tanis8472 said:


> Not if she was waved out by other car. It happens very regularly outside my shop. There have been several crashes because of it.


The way she seemed to pause at the line then start forwards again would suggest that. shabby driving by both if so and that isn't an excuse for her at all. 

There is too much, 'well s/he flashed me so I went' as if other peoples lights are a legal instruction or absolution from your own responsibility to observe properly. Mrs SB was one of the Institute of Advanced Motorists gang a while back and they were very firm that a good driver should never take the word (YKWIM) of anyone else before committing to a manoeuvre. Flashed lights are nothing but an indication that the lights work and a waved hand is nothing but an indication that the arm attached to it isn't paralysed.


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## shouldbeinbed (13 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Can you honestly think that *a driver would wave another forward who is 5 seconds away from the junction*?



Theres some funny codgers on the road, I've seen *this* happen more than once and on a faster road than that looks to be. Not wishing to generalise but usually turn out to be people wearing flat caps & can remember 1st hand when Cliff Richard was at the vanguard of rock and roll rebellion.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (13 May 2016)

Police to reinvestigate collision after seeing video.

http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/p...after_seeing_dramatic_video_footage_1_4534244

Apparently they weren't made aware of the footage when they first investigated...


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## jarlrmai (13 May 2016)

Police to reinvestigate after realising there's a video of the incident doing the rounds on social media.


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## Milkfloat (13 May 2016)

This quote from the police just highlights their 'service'.

“The collision was fully investigated at the time and the investigating officer took steps to ensure the victim was happy with the service he received."


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## benb (13 May 2016)

ABikeCam said:


> Police to reinvestigate collision after seeing video.
> 
> http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/p...after_seeing_dramatic_video_footage_1_4534244
> 
> Apparently they weren't made aware of the footage when they first investigated...



Don't see how the fact they were unaware of the footage is relevant, except that it has embarrassed them into taking action.
The reason for not charging wasn't "lack of evidence" it was "lapse of concentration".


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## glenn forger (13 May 2016)

"We gave him a lift home, what more does he want?!"


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## atbman (14 May 2016)

You have all forgotten that he "appeared out of nowhere". These damned cyclists, thinking they can beam down from the Enterprise whenever they feel like it.


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## david k (12 Jun 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> Not the first time cars have refused to give way either....
> 
> Beware .... language warning




That's a cars representation of a helmet thread


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## Drago (12 Jun 2016)

Surely a lapse in concentration is just another way of saying "careless"?


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## al78 (2 Jul 2016)

I don't understand the police reaction. When I got hit and nearly killed last year, same cause, a lapse of concentration, the driver admitted to driving without due care and attention, went to court, pled guilty and received a fine and penalty points. It is as if they somehow decided that because the cyclist suffered only minor injuries, that somehow vindicates the driver, which is illogical.


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## Joeletaxi (5 Jul 2016)

Just viewed the vid. This looks like a classic case of motorist in a hurry and not even bothering to look. The driver barely pauses and certainly doesnt stop. Its just up to the junction and pretty much straight out. 

Being an advocate of hi vis (!), i do think that if cyclist had been wearing one, it might just have given a moment of pause where the lazy motorist might have seen a flash of bright yellow in his/her right eye, but then maybe not. Could the police have off handed it as easily if cyclist had hi vis vest? Maybe not..who knows..either way its clearly driving without due care and attention. I do think there is still a perception that people falling or being knocked of their bikes is akin to some kind of slapstick seaside postcard. If it were children in buggies being rammed,there would be an outcry im sure!


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## Drago (5 Jul 2016)

You're an advocate of Hi Vis, eh Joe? I must confess, id like to believe, but none of the few studies that have been done have demonstrated that the conspicuity translates into a safety benefit. If you know of something that does then please share it with us.


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