# Fat or plus?



## mythste (22 Feb 2018)

i have a dillema. It’s a dillema I’ve had before but I went about it all the wrong way!

I’m a roadie and I want something for the rough stuff, but the rough stuff could be Manchester velodrome trails on one weekend, welsh trail centre the next and a pub cruise on canals the one after that. I could really use three more bikes, but you know how it is. 

I’ve got about £600 to throw at the second hand market and have considered the following;

Cannondale Beast of the east. I like everything about it, but the forks are raising questions and I would like pannier mounts. 

Specialized fuse comp 6fattie. Same as the above, but it comes with a dropper post which is a big bonus. Forks are supposedly not as good as the dale. 

Or, fat fatbike. Genesis Caribou is top of my list (because I love genesis!) I can strap a tonne of gear to it and go anywhere. That appeals a lot. But would I have less fun on the trails? 

Answers on a postcard?


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## I like Skol (22 Feb 2018)

mythste said:


> I’m a roadie and I want something for the rough stuff, but the rough stuff could be Manchester velodrome trails on one weekend, welsh trail centre the next and a pub cruise on canals the one after that. I could really use three more bikes, but you know how it is.


WHAT! 3 bikes? I think you are over thinking this because you have read too much and been sucked in by the hype (crap!).

Clayton Vale and Welsh trail centres are one and the same, except Wales has more elevation. Canal towpaths are suitable for a rigid hybrid, PERIOD!

Having looked at the 3 bikes you have listed I can't help but wonder why, as a roadie, you would want to go fat or plus? It sounds like you haven't ridden the trails you mention or the bikes you suggest. There is nothing you are considering riding that a good 'normal' hardtail will not cope with and reward the rider with ear to ear grins on each and every run.

Let me furnish you with this quote from the 1st review of the Genisis I clicked on - HERE
"With the Caribou’s 4in-wide Vee Mission tyres resisting directional change you have to turn the bars far more than usual, and with more force, as the bike resists leaning over. On hard-packed surfaces this isn’t a bike that wants to change direction on a dime – even the camber of the road had us quarrelling with the bars."

Do yourself a favour, beg borrow or steal a regular, good XC MTB and go ride some trails, BEFORE you part with any cash. Hell, ask nicely and I might be able to fix you up with a ride at Clayton Vale (if you ask very nicely!).

When you find a good XC MTB, you will have found 'the ONE bike'. Trust me, if you want fun, speed and reward then a hardtail MTB is the bike you are looking for.....

(I am likely to be at Clayton tomorrow from Midday onwards ) Calling @dan_bo for an early Friday finish .


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## mythste (23 Feb 2018)

I like Skol said:


> WHAT! 3 bikes? I think you are over thinking this because you have read too much and been sucked in by the hype (crap!).
> 
> Clayton Vale and Welsh trail centres are one and the same, except Wales has more elevation. Canal towpaths are suitable for a rigid hybrid, PERIOD!
> 
> ...



Amazing. You’ve got me pegged!

I suppose at this point in time I’m looking simply at what’s available and what takes my fancy. The question I’m asking is why wouldn’t I want more rubber on the ground? It seems logical to me. I’m not winning any races and it’s for the smiles, not the KOMS. 

However, I think I get what you’re saying. I had a Santa Cruz chameleon for a short while two years ago and looking back, absolutely hated the thing, so I suppose I’m over compensating somewhat.


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## Levo-Lon (23 Feb 2018)

Im with Skol too
At 600 you want to be looking a a good 27.5 hardtail in the second hand market.
Then you can run tyres from 1.5 to 2.4 which will cover all your requirements .

Happy hunting


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Feb 2018)

Have a look at the Cube hardtails on Tredz for that price.


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## mythste (23 Feb 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Have a look at the Cube hardtails on Tredz for that price.


 
I'm gonna go second hand on the grounds that if I make a terrible decision (Which is looking pretty likely judging on the above  ) I can sell on and not lose too much.

So, considering I have made a terrible decisions and plus bikes are wildly unnecessary, what should I be looking at?


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Feb 2018)

mythste said:


> I'm gonna go second hand on the grounds that if I make a terrible decision (Which is looking pretty likely judging on the above  ) I can sell on and not lose too much.
> 
> So, considering I have made a terrible decisions and plus bikes are wildly unnecessary, what should I be looking at?



Surly do some great plus and fat bikes, but I think even 2nd hand you’ll be looking at the £700-£800 mark. I think @I like Skol is in a better advisory position than I am.


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## Pale Rider (23 Feb 2018)

How about this unused Giant?

Back story looks genuine, it has a mountain triple which is not so common these days but adds versatility.

Nice, podgy, treaded tyres to get you started, and you could always put semi-slicks on if you end up using the bike mostly on towpaths.

Looks like it also has plenty of bosses, so should take a carrier/panniers which you said you wanted.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-Ta...263472?hash=item4d6e13a6f0:g:x~gAAOSwqSBagzAD


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## dan_bo (23 Feb 2018)

I like Skol said:


> (I am likely to be at Clayton tomorrow from Midday onwards ) Calling @dan_bo for an early Friday finish .


 Funnily enough I'm on the MTB today. Earliest I can get down there is 4. Might see ya eh?!


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## Levo-Lon (23 Feb 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> How about this unused Giant?
> 
> Back story looks genuine, it has a mountain triple which is not so common these days but adds versatility.
> 
> ...




Perfect for just about everything.

size is medium so 5' 6 to 5' 10 ish


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## I like Skol (23 Feb 2018)

dan_bo said:


> Funnily enough I'm on the MTB today. Earliest I can get down there is 4. Might see ya eh?!


Sorry pal, I'll be back home cooking dinner by then!


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## mythste (23 Feb 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> How about this unused Giant?
> 
> Back story looks genuine, it has a mountain triple which is not so common these days but adds versatility.
> 
> ...



Thanks pale rider, how's the ebike treating you these days? Still very impressed from that century ride. 

It's not tickling my fancy but I can certainly see the relevance. 

This thread has lead me down the On-One steel hardtail route. @I like Skol - Is that more sensible?!


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## Jody (23 Feb 2018)

I like Skol said:


> When you find a good XC MTB, you will have found 'the ONE bike'. Trust me, if you want fun, speed and reward then a hardtail MTB is the bike you are looking for.....



That pretty much sums it up. Its the reason I opted for a short travel FS XC as i've had big travel bikes and hardtails. Other than smashing through rock gardens at warp speed or hitting massive jumps there is little it can't do.

Have you considered something like a second hand Bird. This is a massive spec and a highly rated HT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bird-AM-Zero-Hardtail/263507175119?hash=item3d5a4066cf:g:socAAOSw9p9aiy2Z


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## Nigeyy (23 Feb 2018)

Slightly different perspective here and with the admission I don't own a fat or plus bike.....

But... if that's what you want, why not? Though I think @I like Skols post is spot on -you can have a ton of fun and more flexibility with wheels that will take anywhere from 1-2.5 inch tyres! However, if you really want a plus or fat bike* just be prepared that cycling along canal paths or smooth trails won't be as fast or easy as narrower tyres, but perhaps you want that for an extra work out and don't mind? (and I'm not saying that sarcastically at all, some people do want the extra workout).

From my point of view, I view plus and fat bikes as less-compromizing-more-off-road bikes, though as I said I haven't got one but still have a great time on my old 26-er. In fact, I'm not even entertaining getting a plus or fat bike as I enjoy my current bikes too much. If it's what you want though, I'd say go for it (though test ride some different style bikes first is great advice to make sure).

*I still think plus fatbikes are relative to the "old"narrower wheel choice still expensive, so you might also be getting less value for money as well.


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## Drago (23 Feb 2018)

A nice 650B hardtail, bit choose a trail machine - XC bikes are more racing orientated, whereas trail machines are for muchq the same terrain but more comfortable, with less frenetic geometry.


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## Crackle (23 Feb 2018)

Get the bike you fancy. Any of them will do all three jobs, so buy the bike you want to ride and if it's wrong, like you say, it's 2nd hand, you won't have lost much.


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## I like Skol (23 Feb 2018)

dan_bo said:


> Funnily enough I'm on the MTB today. Earliest I can get down there is 4. Might see ya eh?!


I might have something in hand.....


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## I like Skol (23 Feb 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I think @I like Skol is in a better advisory position than I am.


Please note, I am no expert, but have experience of what I talk about. I have a lifetime of refusing to have my head turned by some of the whimsies that come and go in the MTB world. I also avoid going too specialised, no use having a kick-ass downhill rig when you won't ride it to the trail and have to spend all your time pushing it back to the top!


mythste said:


> This thread has lead me down the On-One steel hardtail route. @I like Skol - Is that more sensible?!


From the description it certainly seems to tick the boxes. I would still suggest a reasonable test ride if possible and also maybe not a 1x gear set-up if you are coming from a road background and might want to cover greater distances than the typical trail centre rider. A 1x drivetrains might be a bit restrictive on a longer ride where you could want to cruise along at a higher speed for longer?


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## Pale Rider (23 Feb 2018)

mythste said:


> Thanks pale rider, how's the ebike treating you these days? Still very impressed from that century ride.



Still running well, thanks, although so it should be given what it cost.

As regards your new bike, I would be a bit wary of the now fashionable 1X drivetrains.

Could be a bit limiting for a multi-purpose bike.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Feb 2018)

Fat bikes are just the latest cycling fad/gimmick, bought by people with more money than sense who mainly want to pose on them, and will soon be left mouldering and forgotten in sheds and garages, like every other type of bike ever bought by such fickle buyers. From the original posting, all the OP actually needs is a simple no-nonsense rigid hybrid with strong wheels and plenty of mudguard clearance. Anything purporting to be a credible hybrid will have mounts for racks and mudguards as standard.


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## mythste (24 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Fat bikes are just the latest cycling fad/gimmick, bought by people with more money than sense who mainly want to pose on them, and will soon be left mouldering and forgotten in sheds and garages, like every other type of bike ever bought by such fickle buyers. From the original posting, all the OP actually needs is a simple no-nonsense rigid hybrid with strong wheels and plenty of mudguard clearance. Anything purporting to be a credible hybrid will have mounts for racks and mudguards as standard.



You would take a rigid hybrid on trails weekly?


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## Levo-Lon (24 Feb 2018)

mythste said:


> You would take a rigid hybrid on trails weekly?



Only if you were set in your ways


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## Crackle (24 Feb 2018)

Skipdiver John regularly rides his Tri-ang three wheeler down the gnarliest of trails. It's the first bike he ever got and he's never needed anything else.


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## FishFright (24 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Fat bikes are just the latest cycling fad/gimmick, bought by people with more money than sense who mainly want to pose on them, and will soon be left mouldering and forgotten in sheds and garages, like every other type of bike ever bought by such fickle buyers. From the original posting, all the OP actually needs is a simple no-nonsense rigid hybrid with strong wheels and plenty of mudguard clearance. Anything purporting to be a credible hybrid will have mounts for racks and mudguards as standard.



Fat bikes are for soft and loose surfaces, sand and snow etc. and are brilliant at that job. They certainly aren't any ones all rounder. 

In the OP's case a hybrid is not what he needs or wants.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Feb 2018)

Crackle said:


> Skipdiver John regularly rides his Tri-ang three wheeler down the gnarliest of trails. It's the first bike he ever got and he's never needed anything else.



Now that's a slight exaggeration, as I've never ever had a 3-wheeler, but you don't need a fancy full race bike to ride down your high street, and you don't need a full-sus MTB or some marketing-created fat bike abomination with motorcycle sized tyres to ride on rough tracks either. Don't believe all the marketing hype coming from people who want to take your money and sell you something you don't need. A very simple, basic bike, with the right sort of frame geometry and suitable wheels and tyres, will cope with most things the typical rider would ever want to use it for.


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## FishFright (24 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Now that's a slight exaggeration, as I've never ever had a 3-wheeler, but you don't need a fancy full race bike to ride down your high street, and you don't need a full-sus MTB or some marketing-created fat bike abomination with motorcycle sized tyres to ride on rough tracks either. Don't believe all the marketing hype coming from people who want to take your money and sell you something you don't need. A very simple, basic bike, with the right sort of frame geometry and suitable wheels and tyres, will cope with most things the typical rider would ever want to use it for.



Don't believe this hype either, it's not correct .


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## Levo-Lon (24 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Now that's a slight exaggeration, as I've never ever had a 3-wheeler, but you don't need a fancy full race bike to ride down your high street, and you don't need a full-sus MTB or some marketing-created fat bike abomination with motorcycle sized tyres to ride on rough tracks either. Don't believe all the marketing hype coming from people who want to take your money and sell you something you don't need. A very simple, basic bike, with the right sort of frame geometry and suitable wheels and tyres, will cope with most things the typical rider would ever want to use it for.




Bit like saying you only ever need a 4 yarder.

As for choice ,we all have a differing view on what we need.
I love my 140 fs bike and i also like my 120 HT.
Both bikes offer different ride fun.

And although i like my hybrid and road bike they would make a mtb trail horrid to ride.
Unless i wanted a bone shaking slow fall off loads sort of day.


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## mythste (24 Feb 2018)

As you’ve probably noticed I’m super receptive to insight - I wouldn’t have asked if I wasn’t! I’m still debating a fat bike for the sheer fun factor reported, but trying to test ride on is proving tricky. 

I already have two road bikes, one for touring and commuting, one for going as fast as I can on as steep a gradient as I can find. I recognise the need for the right tool for the job, even if some are used to hitting everything with a hammer. 

Keep the ideas flowing! They all help!


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## Cycleops (24 Feb 2018)

Forget about all those new hardtail suggestions. You can buy this and even save a few bob on your budget, brilliant VFM. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-560-mountain-bike-275-white-blue-green-id_8364732.html


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## Nigeyy (25 Feb 2018)

Well I actually do think there's a substantial element of truth in that. My first mtb (just at the start of the 90's) was a rigid bike with a more road bike like geometry. Now I will freely admit to the fact I went everywhere on that thing, very rough tracks included -and I loved it. So yes, you can take a rigid bike to a surprizing number of places. It was later turned into a tourer that I went across Europe with. It's final incarnation was a commuter bike, so I guess it was a hybrid of sorts! It was a great all rounder, and yes, it was fun.

On the flip side, would I do it again? Well no, not unless I had no choice. There are reasons why mtbs (and other styles of bikes) have changed in design; the more specific designs are more readily suited to certain trail conditions and have increased the capabilities of riders -e.g. allowing that drop or rock to be taken rather than being ridden around or carried over. That doesn't mean to say you can't still ride an old rigid or a modern rigid hybrid, but if you want to get a bike to do some trails, it begs the question: why wouldn't you get a more built-for-purpose bike?



FishFright said:


> Don't believe this hype either, it's not correct .


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## Nigeyy (25 Feb 2018)

OK, take this with a huge pinch of salt.... and I'm no expert, and this can classify as hearsay, but I can report this from my friend who has plus and fat bikes: when I asked him which bike he liked the best he said he liked plus bikes the best. He thought the fatbikes were a little too specialized for his tastes, whereas the plus bike hit the sweetspot for him. I cycle with him regularly, and I can only recall him cycling with the fat bike a couple of times, all other times he brings his plus bikes.

You pays your money, you takes your choice..... But do please let us know what you end up with!



mythste said:


> As you’ve probably noticed I’m super receptive to insight - I wouldn’t have asked if I wasn’t! I’m still debating a fat bike for the sheer fun factor reported, but trying to test ride on is proving tricky.
> 
> I already have two road bikes, one for touring and commuting, one for going as fast as I can on as steep a gradient as I can find. I recognise the need for the right tool for the job, even if some are used to hitting everything with a hammer.
> 
> Keep the ideas flowing! They all help!


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## mythste (25 Feb 2018)

Just been out to Clayton vale on a Genesis Core 20, 27.5 x 2.2. Great fun! Has it convinced me I don’t want a fat bike...?

Jury’s still out.


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## fossala (25 Feb 2018)

May not be my fastest bike but it sure is fun!


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## Bodhbh (26 Feb 2018)

It'll depend on the frame clearance, but there is the option of running a 27.5 bike with 26+ wheelset, or a 29er with 27.5+ and getting the best of both worlds.


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## mythste (3 Mar 2018)

I made a decision! New bike day today and I’m very pleased to say I’m the new owner of a Cannondale Cujo 1. 

I borrowed a friends Genesis core 20 and found it to be a bit “Dead" feeling, then went out on a voodoo wazoo fatbike which, as people had mentioned previously, was an absolute pig to handle. Something about the cannondale felt just right under me, and although it’s 27.5 plus and therefore I must have more money than sense (that’s probably true, and I don’t have much money either) it’s really rather lovely. 

Thanks for all the input and I’ll post a photo or two for those interested tomorrow.


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## JhnBssll (3 Mar 2018)

If it felt just right it's the perfect choice 

My favourite mtb is my 27.5 plus - Its incredible what those tires will stick to and roll over. I've had a few moments over wet roots that my 26er wouldn't have been happy about  In my case it's probably fair to say the equipment is making up for a lack of skill at times 

I can understand the arguments about marketing hype and fads but jump on a 27.5 plus tubeless with 15psi in the tires and tell me it's not a whole lot of fun


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