# Who's the numpty chasing the E Bike :-)



## johnnyb47 (4 Sep 2018)

Hi. I've got this week off and my time is my own to do whatever I please (except for dentist on Thursday)
As you can imagine spare time means cycling time, and have put in a few good miles over the last few days. 
Sunday I went for an epic ride out ( for me anyway) and managed to do 75 miles. It gave me chance to properly try out my new bike which ran faultlessly. On one of the many hills on my ride out, i spotted a fellow cyclist way out in front of me. I could just about make out from his clothing and ruck sack he was more than likely a commuter going home from work as he looked laden down with thick work clothes and a bike with heavy mud guards ect. As ever the fool ,whenever I see a cyclist up in front I always try to catch them. Cyclists are few and far between where I live and the childish nature in me always sets off a competitive instinct to try and catch up. As I started giving it my" all" up this long hill he just got smaller and smaller up in the distance. I was a bit miffed thinking that a guy on a heavy old mountain bike could leave me for dead whilst I was on my lightweight road bike looking the business :-) :-) .
When the down hill bit came, I gathered some decent speed and eventually caught him. It was then I noticed he was on an E bike. We spent a mile or so chatting and laughing at my expense of trying to catch him. I've never cycled before with anybody on an E bike and was mighlty impressed by the turn of speed of it in the hills.He went to tell me he's had loads of fun over the months flying past roadies ( infuriating them) on the uphill sections of the steep Welsh roads. If there ever comes to time when I can't cycle for health reasons I will certainly get an E Bike. My dad has one and uses his every day at the ripe old age of 75 with crumbling hip joints. I think there a brilliant invention that will keep people cycling well into there later years in life when a conventional bike can offer no more. 
Today has been another great days worth of cycling. I'm 49 today and celebrated it with a 40 odd mile ride followed by a cold pint at the end. Can't wait for tomorrow to see were my cycling takes me again :-)


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## welsh dragon (4 Sep 2018)

Happy Birthday. And you are not the first ( nor will you be the last person) that has been caught out by someone riding an ebike.


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## screenman (4 Sep 2018)

Happy birthday, I am often chasing ebikes in these parts, Friday was the last one.


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## Drago (4 Sep 2018)

Even an old differ like me can manage for than 15.5 MPH for a spell. If he's genuinely flying past roadies then he's on a non legal machine, and he's a twerp.


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## Cavalol (4 Sep 2018)

I don't know if he's a twerp for it being 'non-legal', but going past anyone on a pedal only cycle on your e-bike doesn't seem to be much to be proud of. I do wonder (probably just jealousy because I'm fat/old/unfit) how many Strava KOMs are on eBikes.


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## Pat "5mph" (4 Sep 2018)

Drago said:


> Even an old differ like me can manage for than 15.5 MPH for a spell. If he's genuinely flying past roadies then he's on a non legal machine, and he's a twerp.


Can you, really? Up a Welsh hill? 
Many happy returns @johnnyb47!


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## Reynard (4 Sep 2018)

Happy birthday @johnnyb47 

I see e-bikes out here, but invariably they're all coming the other way...


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## jowwy (4 Sep 2018)

Drago said:


> Even an old differ like me can manage for than 15.5 MPH for a spell. If he's genuinely flying past roadies then he's on a non legal machine, and he's a twerp.


I would love to see you try and climb the welsh hills at 15.5mph lol


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## HLaB (4 Sep 2018)

Happy Birthday Johnny :-)


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## johnnyb47 (4 Sep 2018)

It was all I'm good banter between us. The point is I met someone new today and we both had a laugh about it all. Cycling is not just about getting from A to B. You get time to interact with other cyclists and have a chat with them. If your driving your completely cut off from any interaction with fellow drivers apart from using indicators or flashing headlights. Cycling gives you that third dimension to be sociable to fellow cyclists out on the road. ( I hope that makes sense after a few beers I've had tonight :-)


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## 13 rider (4 Sep 2018)

As if I would chase anyone on a ebike  been there done that never caught her up the hill to home . Happy birthday @johnnyb47 and happy


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## si_c (4 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> I would love to see you try and climb the welsh hills at 15.5mph lol


I struggle much past 5.5mph lol.


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## si_c (4 Sep 2018)

Happy Birthday @johnnyb47! Perhaps next year you can aim for 50miles and 50 pints


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## johnnyb47 (4 Sep 2018)

si_c said:


> Happy Birthday @johnnyb47! Perhaps next year you can aim for 50miles and 50 pints


Haha :-) :-). Don't tempt me buddy :-) :-)


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## Drago (4 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> I would love to see you try and climb the welsh hills at 15.5mph lol



Ah, you are making the classic mistake of judging another rider against your own standards. Lol indeed. 250W is a third of a horsepower, which ain't a lot, it doesn't have riders whizzing up hills like in the G Tech ads, and the assistance ceases at 15.5 MPH. 

And how remiss of me - Happy Birthday Johnny. Enjoy the last year before the big one


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## jowwy (4 Sep 2018)

Drago said:


> Ah, you are making the classic mistake of judging another rider against your own standards. Lol indeed. 250W is a third of a horsepower, which ain't a lot, it doesn't have riders whizzing up hills like in the G Tech ads, and the assistance ceases at 15.5 MPH.
> 
> And how remiss of me - Happy Birthday Johnny. Enjoy the last year before the big one


Nope im.judging you against my fellow club mates who are very decent climbers, but cannot climb the welsh hills at 15.5mph......not even the professionals at the tour of britain did it and you are in no way on a par or better than them


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## jowwy (4 Sep 2018)

Winner of the tour of britain and kom holder on the tumble climb in the welsh mountains

@Drago - now tell me if you can ride that climb at 15.5mph on a standard road bike


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## Lonestar (5 Sep 2018)

Had this the other day on Southwark Bridge...Wondered how a fat bike could catch me so easy.He came from nowhere.As it turned out it looked like an expensive looking electric fat bike.


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## HarryTheDog (5 Sep 2018)

Yesterday I went for a Strava PB and was a bit miffed when a e-bike went past me at 30mph or so, later we ended up at a set of lights and the guy apologized to me as he expected it to have annoyed me, he was an ex roadie who had got peed off with e-bikes overtaking him so thought he would join them. He told me his was good for 40mph he offered me a draft and proceeded to give me a demo. He lost me before 26mph as it was a strong crosswind and he took off from the lights like a bat out of hell. People keep mentioning this 15mph cut off, I reckon 90% of the people on my commute with e-bikes have de-restricted them. I cant remember the last time I met a e-bike going under 15mph in appropriate circumstances.


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## helston90 (5 Sep 2018)

3 separate times now I've had that exact thing happen to me, twice I thought they were just going quite well and I really had to work to catch them, but on the third occasion he was totally riding an illegal machine - I had to absolutely empty myself on a 3 mile undulating road to catch him, he was on a MTB which looked like something from back to the future with big nobbly tyres barely turning the pedals as I ground past at 30mph+
Good training though!


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2018)

HarryTheDog said:


> Yesterday I went for a Strava PB and was a bit miffed when a e-bike went past me at 30mph or so, later we ended up at a set of lights and the guy apologized to me as he expected it to have annoyed me, he was an ex roadie who had got peed off with e-bikes overtaking him so thought he would join them. He told me his was good for 40mph he offered me a draft and proceeded to give me a demo. He lost me before 26mph as it was a strong crosswind and he took off from the lights like a bat out of hell. People keep mentioning this 15mph cut off, I reckon 90% of the people on my commute with e-bikes have de-restricted them. I cant remember the last time I met a e-bike going under 15mph in appropriate circumstances.


They dont stop working at 15mph, they just stop assisting............everytging after 15mph is your own work.

I can quite easily get mine to 30+mph on a flat road or descent under my own steam, but when it comes to a climb, then its golden.......and mine is NOT deristricted


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## Rooster1 (5 Sep 2018)

Nothing worse than being on a road bike, going as fast as you can, only to be scalped by a mountain bike, with a seemingly large bulge somewhere on the frame.


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## raleighnut (5 Sep 2018)

@johnnyb47


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## The Central Scrutinizer (5 Sep 2018)

I am all in favour of ebikes for people who genuinely need some assistance while cycling but for healthy fit cyclists who go out and buy an ebike just because they don't like being overtaken is beyond me.
I am sixty five and i like to go out and test myself on the hills local to me and beyond(yes i know it's essex ).
The days i start getting off and having to walk up hills is when i might consider an ebike but i hope that will be a long time in the future.


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## Smudge (5 Sep 2018)

When i was a fit healthy cyclist, i wouldn't have even wanted an Ebike, especially a legal one. They are slow at their legal cut off speed and most of them are really heavy and many are hard to pedal much above the cut off speed. My two are like trying to cycle through treacle above the motor cut off. Riding a light unassisted bike is a joy, if you're fit enough to use it. Plus none of the weight and technical aspects of an Ebike.
This is why many fit and healthy cyclists get an illegal Ebike...... and i'm seeing more and more of these illegal Ebikes lately.
They never used to bother me and i used to think why not have a bit more motor speed and power. But i've changed my mind on that and can see problems and more accidents involving them in the future.


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## HarryTheDog (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> They dont stop working at 15mph, they just stop assisting............everytging after 15mph is your own work.
> 
> I can quite easily get mine to 30+mph on a flat road or descent under my own steam, but when it comes to a climb, then its golden.......and mine is NOT deristricted



Nope they are defo de-ristricted, the bikes I see are mainly 22 inch-26 inch wheel hybrids doing around 30mph, not many, if any at all normal commuters can manage that kind of speed on that kind of bike. I have been around enough very decent cyclists long enough to know what people are usually capable off. Still restricted e-bikes are the oddity in these parts.


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## KneesUp (5 Sep 2018)

Everyone I can't catch up with is on an E-bike. Definitely


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## mustang1 (5 Sep 2018)

I think e-bikes are great. I don't get why anyone thinks of them as cheating and I would love to get one.


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## Cycleops (5 Sep 2018)

si_c said:


> I struggle much past 5.5mph lol.


At least that's half a mile an hour more than @Pat "5mph" can manage!


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## Bodhbh (5 Sep 2018)

HarryTheDog said:


> Nope they are defo de-ristricted, the bikes I see are mainly 22 inch-26 inch wheel hybrids doing around 30mph, not many, if any at all normal commuters can manage that kind of speed on that kind of bike. I have been around enough very decent cyclists long enough to know what people are usually capable off. Still restricted e-bikes are the oddity in these parts.



I've never bothered asking, but I assume the electric MTBs and fat bikes you see on the market are not restricted in the first place if they're for off-road use? It's not much of a suprise they're starting to appear on the road.


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## si_c (5 Sep 2018)

Bodhbh said:


> I've never bothered asking, but I assume the electric MTBs and fat bikes you see on the market are not restricted in the first place if they're for off-road use? It's not much of a suprise they're starting to appear on the road.



They are restricted, the Law doesn't differentiate between on-road and off-road use, it simply says that pedal assist cycles must be limited to 15mph. My Dad has one, strangely enough our rides average 15mph.

On this score I'd be quite happy for people with de-restricted bikes to have them confiscated, if it was regularly in the News people might think twice.


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## Smokin Joe (5 Sep 2018)

si_c said:


> They are restricted, the Law doesn't differentiate between on-road and off-road use, it simply says that pedal assist cycles must be limited to 15mph. My Dad has one, strangely enough our rides average 15mph.
> 
> On this score I'd be quite happy for people with de-restricted bikes to have them confiscated, if it was regularly in the News people might think twice.


I think the law is a bit silly. 20 or 25mph would be more reaistic, we can all blat along at those speeds anyway even if it is just for a short distance.


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## si_c (5 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I think the law is a bit silly. 20 or 25mph would be more reaistic, we can all blat along at those speeds anyway even if it is just for a short distance.


I don't entirely disagree, I think 15mph is a bit low, but then it's probably also a good compromise between battery life and performance for a lot of people too.


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## vickster (5 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I think the law is a bit silly. 20 or 25mph would be more reaistic, we can all blat along at those speeds anyway even if it is just for a short distance.


How then would the ebike different from a low powered scooter which requires a licence, a helmet and to be ridden on the road ?


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## Smudge (5 Sep 2018)

I've always felt i could use a bit more speed before the motor cuts out, specially on the road. But 15.5 max motor speed is the law. If it were higher then some would be wanting a bit more, you have to draw the line somewhere.
I now accept the 15.5mph, because i enjoy the freedoms of Ebikes in as much they are free of restrictions just like unassisted bikes, and can use cycle paths/tracks and canal paths. 15.5 mph max motor speed is more than enough for these places.
I also like the longer range with this lower motor speed.


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## nickAKA (5 Sep 2018)

KneesUp said:


> Everyone I can't catch up with is on an E-bike. Definitely



A deristricted one. Obviously.


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## Ciar (5 Sep 2018)

Many happy Returns @johnnyb47 as for the Ebike disccussion, i have a few on my commute and have been the scalpee plenty of times, but then again the Rapha/Castelli crew are just as bad ;-) don't take much notice of either!


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2018)

vickster said:


> How then would the ebike different from a low powered scooter which requires a licence, a helmet and to be ridden on the road ?


And whats the speed on these low powered scooters, my guess its 30mph plus........so quite a difference really


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## vickster (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> And whats the speed on these low powered scooters, my guess its 30mph plus........so quite a difference really


Vs 25mph? Not really especially around pedestrians on a share path


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## davidphilips (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> Winner of the tour of britain and kom holder on the tumble climb in the welsh mountains
> 
> @Drago - now tell me if you can ride that climb at 15.5mph on a standard road bike
> 
> View attachment 428571



Just as a matter of interest would an ebike go up that climb at 15.5mph?

Reason i ask is i know a member of my club that goes out on an ebike and yes hes ok up hills but not any faster than i am, dont know what size of battery or motor he has or what power setting its on but apart from out accelerating me i can stay with him on hills and go faster on the level (and going fast on the level is not my strong point)


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## KneesUp (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> And whats the speed on these low powered scooters, my guess its 30mph plus........so quite a difference really


Legally, 28mph.


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2018)

vickster said:


> Vs 25mph? Not really especially around pedestrians on a share path


Cyclists already go quicker than that on shared paths........non ebikes


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Just as a matter of interest would an ebike go up that climb at 15.5mph?
> 
> Reason i ask is i know a member of my club that goes out on an ebike and yes hes ok up hills but not any faster than i am, dont know what size of battery or motor he has or what power setting its on but apart from out accelerating me i can stay with him on hills and go faster on the level (and going fast on the level is not my strong point)


Yes an ebike with a strong rider would be able to get close to 15mph up that climb......going fast on level roads is not an ebikes strong point, especially with motor drag. I can get my ebike to 22/23 mph on the flat for short periods


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## vickster (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> Cyclists already go quicker than that on shared paths........non ebikes


Then they’re idiots if there are peds around


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## raleighnut (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> Yes an ebike with a strong rider would be able to get close to 15mph up that climb......going fast on level roads is not an ebikes strong point, especially with motor drag. I can get my ebike to 22/23 mph on the flat for short periods


No motor 'drag' on my front wheel motor.


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2018)

raleighnut said:


> No motor 'drag' on my front wheel motor.


Thats not pedal assist mid drive though raleighnut


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## raleighnut (5 Sep 2018)

jowwy said:


> Thats not pedal assist mid drive though raleighnut


True, maybe that's why I'm a fan of front wheel drive kits. The wheel on mine does not use any type of speed sensor either, the top speed is governed by the control unit only driving the 3 phase 'Hall effect' motor to a certain maximum RPM (I assume it is frequency limited)
The wheel will certainly spin faster un-powered downhill (that can get scary on an 'upwrong' Trike though) and if you lift the front wheel into the air and spin it up on thumb throttle it freewheels better than some standard wheels once the power is switched off.


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## steveindenmark (6 Sep 2018)

I was in Holland on an ICE trike a few years ago, fair blasting along. When a woman passed me on a shopper type bike , complete with basket with flowers on the outside. I was deflated as I was trying hard and she was riding without any effort. This was in the early days of electric bikes.

I think it took about 2 years before the penny dropped and I realised she was riding an electric bike.

Well at least I hope she was. 

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago.

I was riding my carbon road bike into a strong headwind when a guy on an electric MTB passed me. I can spot an electric bike in a nano second now. He was bedecked in SKY team lycra and even had the audacity to wave.

Well I think it was an electric bike but he could have been on drugs because all the SKY team are.....allegedly


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I think the law is a bit silly. 20 or 25mph would be more reaistic, we can all blat along at those speeds anyway even if it is just for a short distance.



The legal assistance speed is deliberately set low in order to prevent cycle tracks and shared paths becoming infested with reckless chavs on two wheels tearing about irresponsibly carving up other road users. Fast cyclists mixed up with slow cyclists and even slower pedestrians does not do anything to improve road safety It's bad enough now with 100% human-powered bikes being ridden far too fast for the amount of other road users in close proximity, but fortunately the fact that most cyclists aren't sufficiently fit or strong to hit warp speed on the flat or uphill at least limits the problem. Introduce the e-bike into the equation, and you multiply the potential for irresponsible riders on doctored machinery to ride in a more dangerous and inconsiderate manner than they would be capable of purely using leg power alone. More accidents, more aggro between different road users, more anti-social behaviour, more negative publicity for cycling.


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## Jimidh (6 Sep 2018)

I’m all for people riding ebikes if that’s their thing but I what I don’t buy is the narrative that all us roadies are somehow jealous of your easy ascent on hills because

A. We know you are on an ebike.

B. And this is the important bit - we like going up hills even though our demeanour may say differently.


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## Smudge (6 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The legal assistance speed is deliberately set low in order to prevent cycle tracks and shared paths becoming infested with reckless chavs on two wheels tearing about irresponsibly carving up other road users. Fast cyclists mixed up with slow cyclists and even slower pedestrians does not do anything to improve road safety It's bad enough now with 100% human-powered bikes being ridden far too fast for the amount of other road users in close proximity, but fortunately the fact that most cyclists aren't sufficiently fit or strong to hit warp speed on the flat or uphill at least limits the problem. Introduce the e-bike into the equation, and you multiply the potential for irresponsible riders on doctored machinery to ride in a more dangerous and inconsiderate manner than they would be capable of purely using leg power alone. More accidents, more aggro between different road users, more anti-social behaviour, more negative publicity for cycling.



Totally agree...... For Ebikes to have the privilege of using cycle paths/lanes/tracks and canal paths, their power and max motor mph should be kept as it is.


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## Pat "5mph" (6 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The legal assistance speed is deliberately set low in order to prevent cycle tracks and shared paths becoming infested with reckless chavs on two wheels tearing about irresponsibly carving up other road users. Fast cyclists mixed up with slow cyclists and even slower pedestrians does not do anything to improve road safety It's bad enough now with 100% human-powered bikes being ridden far too fast for the amount of other road users in close proximity, but fortunately the fact that most cyclists aren't sufficiently fit or strong to hit warp speed on the flat or uphill at least limits the problem. Introduce the e-bike into the equation, and you multiply the potential for irresponsible riders on doctored machinery to ride in a more dangerous and inconsiderate manner than they would be capable of purely using leg power alone. More accidents, more aggro between different road users, more anti-social behaviour, more negative publicity for cycling.


I agree with this, but imo banning ebikes is not the answer.
There will always be conflict among road users.
I can't get to 10mph on a good day, still, I have had grannies in parks calling me a "menace".


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## jowwy (7 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The legal assistance speed is deliberately set low in order to prevent cycle tracks and shared paths becoming infested with reckless chavs on two wheels tearing about irresponsibly carving up other road users. Fast cyclists mixed up with slow cyclists and even slower pedestrians does not do anything to improve road safety It's bad enough now with 100% human-powered bikes being ridden far too fast for the amount of other road users in close proximity, but fortunately the fact that most cyclists aren't sufficiently fit or strong to hit warp speed on the flat or uphill at least limits the problem. Introduce the e-bike into the equation, and you multiply the potential for irresponsible riders on doctored machinery to ride in a more dangerous and inconsiderate manner than they would be capable of purely using leg power alone. More accidents, more aggro between different road users, more anti-social behaviour, more negative publicity for cycling.


Fast and slow cyclists on cycle tracks and shared paths are already mixed up with pedestrians everyday......thats not got nothing to do with ebikes or their use.

And as for calling them chavs, whos the one that dives around in skips taking other peoples rubbish.......


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Sep 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I agree with this, but imo banning ebikes is not the answer..



I'm not actually in favour of banning e-bikes either, but I see them as something for use by "marginal cyclists" who might not otherwise be able to ride anything. I don't think they should be promoted as a labour-saving device, range extender, or a way of going up hills faster.
Whilst there is always going to be conflict between road users, e-bikes are certainly not going to help matters. Fortunately I don't yet see many of them around, no doubt due to cost, but it's clear a lot of the ones that are on the roads have been tampered with to turn them into electric mopeds capable of being ridden in a pretty antisocial and dangerous manner with little or no effort from the rider. An assisted bike is supposed to be just that, not a means of trying to circumvent road traffic law by running an unlicensed, unregistered, and uninsured moped. The danger here is that illegally doctored e-bikes will be taken up in large numbers by people with no licence, a driving ban, or enough convictions or accidents to make them uninsurable on a vehicle covered by the Road Traffic Act. A lot of those people are already cyclists under duress, since they can't get away with driving anything with a number plate on it, and they are not really the sort of people you want to go faster and further on bikes by giving them any help!


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## jowwy (7 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not actually in favour of banning e-bikes either, but I see them as something for use by "marginal cyclists" who might not otherwise be able to ride anything. I don't think they should be promoted as a labour-saving device, range extender, or a way of going up hills faster.
> Whilst there is always going to be conflict between road users, e-bikes are certainly not going to help matters. Fortunately I don't yet see many of them around, no doubt due to cost, but it's clear a lot of the ones that are on the roads have been tampered with to turn them into electric mopeds capable of being ridden in a pretty antisocial and dangerous manner with little or no effort from the rider. An assisted bike is supposed to be just that, not a means of trying to circumvent road traffic law by running an unlicensed, unregistered, and uninsured moped. The danger here is that illegally doctored e-bikes will be taken up in large numbers by people with no licence, a driving ban, or enough convictions or accidents to make them uninsurable on a vehicle covered by the Road Traffic Act. A lot of those people are already cyclists under duress, since they can't get away with driving anything with a number plate on it, and they are not really the sort of people you want to go faster and further on bikes by giving them any help!


More drivel


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## Pat "5mph" (7 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> but it's clear a lot of the ones that are on the roads have been tampered with to turn them into electric mopeds capable of being ridden in a pretty antisocial and dangerous manner with little or no effort from the rider.


Sorry, but there are many fast (20mph+) cyclists on the shared paths now, on ordinary bikes.
Anyone, on any bike, is capable of riding in an antisocial or dangerous manner, you don't need an ebike for it!


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## Levo-Lon (8 Sep 2018)

Happy Birthday for Tuesday.

i dont tell the wife how tough it is keeping up on any climbs around here,there not steep but i struggle to do 12-15 mph on a long slow hill.

best thing ever for our cycling outings was the ebike .
keeps mrs lon interested and to be fair she uses the tour setting and not the sport or turbo so gets a reasonable work out without feeling destroyed after a ride.
There not cheap as hers was £2k but i think she will go for a lady specific specialised levo fs next as that was her want bike after test rides, but their 3.5-4 k but so much better than a 2k model. And her bike is a small mans due to female specific choice being rare last year.


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## Smudge (8 Sep 2018)

So far, riders of non road legal Ebikes, have easily gotten away with riding them on the road and other non legal places. They've managed to stay under the radar of the police and the authorities. But these non road legal Ebikes are getting more common.
Sooner or later the authorities and the police will start getting more aware of this situation and start taking an interest in Ebike power and motor cut off speed restrictions being ignored. When that happens, there's a possibility that any clamp down on these Ebikes with further restrictions could affect road legal Ebike riders.


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## biggs682 (8 Sep 2018)

So happily riding Hardwater this morning came over the double bridges and stopped to take a picture , i noticed out of the corner of my eye that the lady i had overtaken a while back had come past me and was heading up the hill , so i set of thinking that i would soon catch her up or at least hold the gap , but by the time i had got about a 3rd of the way up she was still steaming along and if anything pulling away from me ...... yes it was an electric assist bike and no i didn't close the gap at all up the hill


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## si_c (8 Sep 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I can't get to 10mph on a good day, still, I have had grannies in parks calling me a "menace".



For some reason, I don't even know why, but I've got a mental image of you chasing Grannies in the park waving a baguette.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Sep 2018)

si_c said:


> For some reason, I don't even know why, but I've got a mental image of you chasing Grannies in the park waving a baguette.



I'm of grannie age!


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## Doobiesis (8 Sep 2018)

Trouble is with people on E bikes, they go passed you on a massive climb, they’re 9/10 doing it to piss you off! I’d rather do it with my own power. My legs.

Although I overtook a couple on an e bike today. Go me!


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## jowwy (8 Sep 2018)

Doobiesis said:


> Trouble is with people on E bikes, they go passed you on a massive climb, they’re 9/10 doing it to piss you off! I’d rather do it with my own power. My legs.
> 
> Although I overtook a couple on an e bike today. Go me!


Doing it to piss you off or just riding and enjoying their bikes. Must have one big ego if you think people ride ebikes just to piss you off.....sheeesh


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## youngoldbloke (9 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not actually in favour of banning e-bikes either, but I see them as something for use by "marginal cyclists" who might not otherwise be able to ride anything. I don't think they should be promoted as a labour-saving device, range extender, or a way of going up hills faster. ........



- so I'm no longer a 'Proper' cyclist, and now I'm a 'marginal cyclist' . After riding bikes for almost 60 years it's come to this


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## Turdus philomelos (9 Sep 2018)

I don't think I'm a marginal cyclist.

I have cycled both as a commuter and for fitness and leisure for over 8 years clocking on average 6000 miles per year.

At the beginning of the year I was in the market for a new commuting bike looking to fund through a cycle to work scheme.

It was Mr Turdus who first put the idea of a pedal assist bike in my head.

My initial reaction was, as like so many was , I will loose fitness, it will make me lazy, other cyclist will think I'm unfit/lazy, folk will think I have some sort of medical condition that prevents me from riding a proper bike.
After 6 months I can say is why didn't I buy one sooner.

I even heard the phrase it's cheating. Cheating at what? Cheating at battling into 30mph head wind? My commute is a mile longer, on quieter roads with a greater workout


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Sep 2018)

6k is a lot of yearly miles, that's probably as much as my private car mileage and riding mileage added together.

I still can't see the attraction of the things personally, particularly if you have to cycle to a high-risk area, as you ideally want a worthless bike parked on the street unattended not a shiny new e-bike that any fool can see cost a lot of money. Security issues aside, to me, a bicycle should always be a simple, minimalist machine. I just want it comprised of the fewest number of parts that will get the job done, with no frills and as few potential things to fail on it as possible. This is one reason I refuse outright to have anything to do with suspension bikes, I won't even use a free one out of a bin as I reckon they are more trouble than they are worth. Same goes for anything with electric motors and batteries. They aren't essential to get from A to B so I don't want them.


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## jowwy (9 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> 6k is a lot of yearly miles, that's probably as much as my private car mileage and riding mileage added together.
> 
> I still can't see the attraction of the things personally, particularly if you have to cycle to a high-risk area, as you ideally want a worthless bike parked on the street unattended not a shiny new e-bike that any fool can see cost a lot of money. Security issues aside, to me, a bicycle should always be a simple, minimalist machine. I just want it comprised of the fewest number of parts that will get the job done, with no frills and as few potential things to fail on it as possible. This is one reason I refuse outright to have anything to do with suspension bikes, I won't even use a free one out of a bin as I reckon they are more trouble than they are worth. Same goes for anything with electric motors and batteries. They aren't essential to get from A to B so I don't want them.


My office got these big secure things called secure parking for bikes. Hey they even lock up with a key and have cctv cameras pointing at the entry point and huge secure railings all around the car park..........our office lives in the 21st century and encourages cycling to work. So thats another myth of your busted.


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## jowwy (9 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> 6k is a lot of yearly miles, that's probably as much as my private car mileage and riding mileage added together.
> 
> I still can't see the attraction of the things personally, particularly if you have to cycle to a high-risk area, as you ideally want a worthless bike parked on the street unattended not a shiny new e-bike that any fool can see cost a lot of money. Security issues aside, to me, a bicycle should always be a simple, minimalist machine. I just want it comprised of the fewest number of parts that will get the job done, with no frills and as few potential things to fail on it as possible. This is one reason I refuse outright to have anything to do with suspension bikes, I won't even use a free one out of a bin as I reckon they are more trouble than they are worth. Same goes for anything with electric motors and batteries. They aren't essential to get from A to B so I don't want them.


So your car has nothing electric or battery operated on it then???


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## Jimidh (9 Sep 2018)

I like the rise of the ebike as I am now seeing more people out riding that don’t fit with the traditional idea of a cyclist. 

Most mornings I see an obviously overweight woman happily cycling up hill, to work I assume, - there’s no way she would have been doing that quite so happily without her ebike. 

More people on bikes and the normalisation of cycling as a means of transport and leisure can only be a good thing.

I had a shot of one and it was great fun.

Not for me as i’m one of those pesky black Lycra clad ninjas but not going to castigate anyone who does.


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## classic33 (9 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not actually in favour of banning e-bikes either, but I see them as something for use by "marginal cyclists" who might not otherwise be able to ride anything. I don't think they should be promoted as a labour-saving device, range extender, or a way of going up hills faster.
> Whilst there is always going to be conflict between road users, e-bikes are certainly not going to help matters. Fortunately I don't yet see many of them around, no doubt due to cost, but it's clear a lot of the ones that are on the roads have been tampered with to turn them into electric mopeds capable of being ridden in a pretty antisocial and dangerous manner with little or no effort from the rider. An assisted bike is supposed to be just that, not a means of trying to circumvent road traffic law by running an unlicensed, unregistered, and uninsured moped. The danger here is that illegally doctored e-bikes will be taken up in large numbers by people with no licence, a driving ban, or enough convictions or accidents to make them uninsurable on a vehicle covered by the Road Traffic Act. A lot of those people are already cyclists under duress, since they can't get away with driving anything with a number plate on it, and they are not really the sort of people you want to go faster and further on bikes by giving them any help!


I'd class myself as a marginalist rider, I ride a recumbent Quad.

Due to the price tags associated with recumbents, you don't see many about. There's one other within 10 miles of me. Recumbent, not recumbent quad.

Recumbent trikes tend to attract people who'd otherwise either not be able to cycle, or would have to give up cycling due to balance problems.

I'm not the quickest vehicle on the roads, uphill. But it's easy enough keeping up with other traffic at the legal speed limit. But I've found out that some people don't like being behind another vehicle travelliing at the legal limit.

One thing I found out, very early on, was that the restrictions you talk about on speed, only apply if the "power is transmitted through the drivetrain or the wheels. Making a model jet engine exempt from the rules. Only cost is stopping me, for now!


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## Turdus philomelos (10 Sep 2018)

As we are all collectively grouped as vunerable road users I just dont understand any negativity of encouraging folk out of their cars and onto two/three wheels. 
Right am off to ride my bike, but which one?


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## classic33 (10 Sep 2018)

Turdus philomelos said:


> As we are all collectively grouped as vunerable road users I just dont understand any negativity of encouraging folk out of their cars and onto two/three wheels.
> Right am off to ride my bike, but which one?


Ere, a quad has four, stop marginalising me.


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## NickWi (10 Sep 2018)

How about looking at the whole question from a different angle? You're riding along and see a bike up ahead and as previously described the red mist comes down and you're off, but you just can't catch the bugger. When he/she finally stops you discover it a 6.8kg UCI weignt limit _Pinarello_ special worth the best part of £10k.

Now, whilst you might quietly curse to yourself and as the thread title (almost) says, '_whos-the-numpty-chasing-the-Pinarello'_, you don't go around calling him cheating, no good, son of a .... etc etc for having an unfair advantage over your 13.5kg Dawes Galaxey do you? Having riden at one end of the scale a 22.5kg Pashley Roadster and at the other one Colnago's finest, the difference in speed, feel and effort, particulary uphill, can feel like more than any (_legal_) electric motor can provide.


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## Pale Rider (10 Sep 2018)

Doobiesis said:


> Trouble is with people on E bikes, they go passed you on a massive climb, they’re 9/10 doing it to piss you off!



Being a sensitive soul I tend not to blast past push bikes on my ebike.

If I'm gaining on a push biker towards the top of the climb I may hang back, knowing the push biker will blast off into the distance once over the summit.

I've also apologised for passing push bikes.

For example, on the way to Brighton when I was trying to catch @ianrauk and chums in brisk mode.

I did rattle past two ladies on hybrids, but I also slowed for a second and briefly explained I was with the roadies up the road and trying to get back in touch with them.

Sensibilities, eh?


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## Turdus philomelos (10 Sep 2018)

classic33 said:


> Ere, a quad has four, stop marginalising me.



You mean if these bikes?


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## classic33 (10 Sep 2018)

Turdus philomelos said:


> You got one of these bikes?
> View attachment 429543


Not yet.
There's five wheels on that.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Sep 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Being a sensitive soul I tend not to blast past push bikes on my ebike.
> 
> I've also apologised for passing push bikes.


I wouldn't do either. I don't alter my speed in case I upset some snowflake who takes offence at being passed.

Bollocks to 'em.


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## raleighnut (10 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wouldn't do either. I don't alter my speed in case I upset some snowflake who takes offence at being passed.
> 
> Bollocks to 'em.


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## Doobiesis (16 Sep 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Being a sensitive soul I tend not to blast past push bikes on my ebike.
> 
> If I'm gaining on a push biker towards the top of the climb I may hang back, knowing the push biker will blast off into the distance once over the summit.
> 
> ...


What a nice cyclist you are


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## youngoldbloke (16 Sep 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Being a sensitive soul I tend not to blast past push bikes on my ebike. …...


 Ashamed to say I did just that yesterday. First proper ride with the club group on my Orbea Gain yesterday, and the first real test of the assistance levels. Last time I attempted this particular little hill, must be over a year ago, I struggled at the back, calves screaming, as the rest of them pulled away. This time I followed the leading rider - he was out of the saddle and working hard - then on the steepest part of the climb I drew level and pulled away, reaching the regrouping point at the top way ahead of them all. WOW did I enjoy that! (Not sure he knew I was on an ebike at that point - won't do it again, promise )


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## Pale Rider (16 Sep 2018)

Doobiesis said:


> What a nice cyclist you are



Although I hide it well sometimes.



youngoldbloke said:


> Ashamed to say I did just that yesterday. First proper ride with the club group on my Orbea Gain yesterday, and the first real test of the assistance levels. Last time I attempted this particular little hill, must be over a year ago, I struggled at the back, calves screaming, as the rest of them pulled away. This time I followed the leading rider - he was out of the saddle and working hard - then on the steepest part of the climb I drew level and pulled away, reaching the regrouping point at the top way ahead of them all. WOW did I enjoy that! (Not sure he knew I was on an ebike at that point - won't do it again, promise )



Plenty of roadies on here can - and have - out climbed me on my ebike.

I tend to score on the longer climbs because I can keep a steady pace for as long as it takes.


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