# Sat Nav for cycling



## Billy Wizz (9 Aug 2019)

I am looking for the best or recommended sat nav device or app to get me from a to b and keep me off busy routes, appreciate some feedback thanks


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## Phaeton (9 Aug 2019)

komoot.com running on an old phone


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## ianrauk (9 Aug 2019)

What is your budget?


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## Billy Wizz (9 Aug 2019)

ianrauk said:


> What is your budget?



It depends I need something decent if it’s a device I would consider cost after recommendations


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## GuyBoden (9 Aug 2019)

Free UK map, routable with contours:

https://shop.talkytoaster.me.uk/pro...for-use-with-garmin-devices-routablecontours/

Good on Garmin Edge, same as OpenStreetMap, but with a bit more detail.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Aug 2019)

None, in device Nav is shoot for cycling. They just do not have the information in them to generate a sensible routes for cycling. Besides some cyclists tolerance for busy is higher than others.


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## nickAKA (9 Aug 2019)

Billy Wizz said:


> It depends I need something decent if it’s a device I would consider cost after recommendations



From what I've heard the new Garmin 830 & 530 are supposed to be decent for navigation 'on the fly' but read this & decide if it's right for you:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/garmin-edge-530-cycling-gps-in-depth-review.html
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/garmin-edge-530-cycling-gps-in-depth-review.html
Personal experience - sat navs rarely select the route you'd select for yourself no matter how good they are, if you can plan a route ahead it's the best way.


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## HobbesOnTour (9 Aug 2019)

I found it helpful to think of this subject in 2 ways;
1. There is route planning and as @YukonBoy points out most devices are not very good at this.
2. Route following - whether by gps device or phone or cue notes.

Route planning on the fly normally requires internet access and/or subscriptions or previous paid downloads. Routes are typically not ideal tending to be focused on destination, not journey.

I've tested various online planners and prefer cycle.travel as it chooses quieter routes. I found both Komoot and RideWithGPS to be more direct, although the advantage of RWGPS is to "borrow" other's routes. To test, I used them to plot routes between places known to me and then checked which one suited me best.

A simple and cheap way of getting in to the whole thing is to try Osmand on your phone, coupled with your preferred planner. Create route online, transfer gps file to phone, load gpx in Osmand and off you go.

There are many discussions on this topic arguing the merits of different planners and devices. Have a search.

I always advise anyone to have a real good think about what they want before buying a device. Each device has advantages over another and disadvantages too.


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## Richard Fairhurst (9 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> None, in device Nav is shoot for cycling. They just do not have the information in them to generate a sensible routes for cycling. Besides some cyclists tolerance for busy is higher than others.



Yep. I'd slightly qualify that by saying it _is_ theoretically possible for a Garmin-style GPS to generate good cycling routes: there's no reason why the map database couldn't include good weightings for each road. But in practice they don't.

(A handlebar-mounted device is always going to be a lot slower at planning routes than a web-based planner, of course, because they don't have much CPU or memory.)


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## Crackle (9 Aug 2019)

There are very few that don't require pre-planning. Komoot on a phone is about the closest I've come to finding something that works but even that requires some careful inspection of what it's picked, neverherless it did work for a short tour last year. Others swear by osmand on their phone, I've always found it impenetrable but both will give you turn by turn directions. Other than that, Garmins etc rely on a pre-planned route being loaded and their on the fly stuff isn't great, most websites recommend you turn it off.


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## Phaeton (9 Aug 2019)

I have a Garmin 800 & for Sat Nav it's a waste of time, I can't see it as I'm riding & if I tell it to go back to start it never seems to generate a sensible route. I now use my old phone with Komoot loaded, I have the paid maps all of which I have downloaded so can use offline. I plan my route before, send to phone & have it mounted on an out front Garmin mount makes it easy to see, it will give audio but over about 10mph I can't hear it.


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## derrick (9 Aug 2019)

Wahoo. The other's do not come close.


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## Domus (9 Aug 2019)

After using a Garmin for three years or so, I have very recently changed to a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt and have nothing but praise for it. I plot routes on RWGPS and sync via my phone. When the Windermere Ferry let me down the other week the Wahoo "*Take me to *" feature saved the day.
The Garmin never lost any data but random freezes and shut downs drove me nuts.


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## tom73 (9 Aug 2019)

Wahoo + RWGPS combo works a treat for me no issues. If on the rare time it throws it's dummy out. Just turn it off and on , and it's sorted.
As @HobbesOnTour says the added plus of RWGPS is being able to "refining" other peoples past routes.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Wahoo. The other's do not come close.



Didn't think Wahoo could do on the fly routing. Doesn't that also require a phone that does that for you?


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## nickAKA (9 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Didn't think Wahoo could do on the fly routing. Doesn't that also require a phone that does that for you?



I agree... Is the elemnt Roam available now? That's supposed to do a2b navigating with offline maps but I can't see it being much better than what's available already... Having said that I'd probably buy wahoo in preference to garmin for a cycle head unit based on my own experiences.


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## icowden (9 Aug 2019)

Google maps seems to be getting better and better for good cycle routes IMHO


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## derrick (9 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Didn't think Wahoo could do on the fly routing. Doesn't that also require a phone that does that for you?


Who goes out without there phone?


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## Mo1959 (9 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Who goes out without there phone?


Me, quite often. Lol. 

I have the Garmin Edge 830 and liking it so far but haven’t tested out the routing. You can put a place in and navigate there like a car sat nav. Need to try it out if this weather would improve.


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## Sea of vapours (9 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Who goes out without there phone?



Me, almost invariably.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Who goes out without there phone?



Me and when I do it's a normal dumb phone. Mostly leave the phone at home.


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## tom73 (9 Aug 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I agree... Is the elemnt Roam available now? That's supposed to do a2b navigating with offline maps but I can't see it being much better than what's available already... Having said that I'd probably buy wahoo in preference to garmin for a cycle head unit based on my own experiences.



Yes it is now available and yes it can do a2b navigation.


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## derrick (9 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'd tend to agree with @YukonBoy that if your aim is _"get me from a to b and keep me off busy routes"_ ie you want on-the-fly routing, you are probably in for a disappointing experience.


If you plan your routes properly there is no need for on fly routing, i have never needed it, but i have a backup with the phone if i do need it.


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## Billy Wizz (9 Aug 2019)

Thanks for the replies I will be trying a few of the mentioned apps probably not this weekend with the look of the wind


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## Nebulous (10 Aug 2019)

icowden said:


> Google maps seems to be getting better and better for good cycle routes IMHO



It was a bit of a shock to me to realise that Google maps on my phone was now better than my Garmin satnav in my car. If anyone has the data and deep enough pockets to do it for bikes Google has. Just think of the billions they have spent on street view.


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## steveindenmark (10 Aug 2019)

After reading some of the reports from the ongoing Transcontinental Race. I think the alps and Italian lakes will be littered with Garmins.

I use a Wahoo Bolt, which I find faultless. You can plan a route on the pc sith several apps . I use Ridewithgps and Komoot.

On the road I use Komoot and it transfers straight over to the Bolt

It is simple and accurate.


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## HobbesOnTour (10 Aug 2019)

icowden said:


> Google maps seems to be getting better and better for good cycle routes IMHO



I've tested Google Maps here in NL, a land with no shortage of cyclepaths and cycle friendly roads. Creating a route on the fly Google maps will still send me across fields. It's useful, but I would always advise someone not to rely on it.



derrick said:


> If you plan your routes properly there is no need for on fly routing, i have never needed it, but i have a backup with the phone if i do need it.


Depending on our cycling style there is often a need for on the fly routing. For example, when touring. Planning out a 2000km cycle tour in such detail would drive me demented. In these cases I still want a decent cycling route as opposed to direct a to b.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> If you plan your routes properly there is no need for on fly routing, i have never needed it, but i have a backup with the phone if i do need it.



If you plan it properly there's no need for for a Wahoo or other backup devices.


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## GuyBoden (10 Aug 2019)

I still like to have a OS map 1:25K of the local area (I prefer laminated). You can read these at home at the table, while having a cuppa, plot a route with a removable felt tip pen (if laminated) and take it with you on a ride, I find that you will know the area better if you take a map with you and read it often. I also have a Garmin Edge.

I find that the laminated are better.
https://dash4it.co.uk/catalog/category/view/s/os-explorer-maps/id/48/


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## derrick (10 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> If you plan it properly there's no need for for a Wahoo or other backup devices.


Let me know how you plan your route.


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## Heltor Chasca (10 Aug 2019)

I use the stars as the most reliable method to navigate.

During the day I use a Wahoo Elemnt with RWGPS or Cycle.Travel


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## Paul_Smith SRCC (11 Aug 2019)

I agree with the majority on this thread, bike GPS units are far better at following a planned route composed at leisure on a computer, they are less impressive if you actually try and plan a route using one. To plan a route on a computer my personal favourite is RWGPS, I like that you can toggle between driving, cycling and walking; using driving to make sure I stay on roads and toggle to walking if I want to walk over a footbridge for example. Plotting a route on a computer is all part of the build up for me, I'm in my mid fifties and plotting a route reminds me that back in the day I would have on OS map in the bathroom that I would read 'on the toilet' merrily planning my next ride 

I still use my Garmin 810 that I bought in 2013 and is still actually available from Madison the UK distributor, note you can use the unit to _*plan a route*_ (click for video) although it is a bit of a faff, that said I have used it on the rare occasion and been pleased with results, but I much prefer pre planning where possible. Of the current Garmin range if I were buying now I would choose the Edge 830, in many ways a touch screen version of the Edge 530 that uses buttons instead; I find the former far more intuitive to use than the 530 and well worth the extra £90.00 at retail as far as I'm concerned. The 830 is so impressive I'd actually choose it over their flagship model the Edge 1030. All the current units have a listed battery life of 20 hours, where as my 810 has 17. I'd treat all of those as optimistic, that said I have never run out of battery but when on tour I do carry a power bank in my 'handlebar bag' as back up just incase, if needed the usb lead easily reaches the 810 located on my stem. There are quite a few GPS units from other brands, Wahoo, Satmap, Bryton and Lezyne to name just a few, all have there pros and cons and note some have more a focus on training data than they do navigation

Although I plan courses using RWGPS, I do import that route into Garmin Connect so that I have a back up on my phone if needed, I can also use the same app on my phone to plan a route from 'point to point' as well as a 'circular route' over a specified distance which I have found of some use when on a center based holiday when I do not have my computer with me or pre planned routes already loaded onto the unit.

I do find a GPS incredibly useful, most of the time I love it, but there has and I dare say will be the in the future the odd occasion where it will send me _*around the bend *_when it should've _*navigated me around it*_ but didn't! Like any GPS I would recommend not relying on the navigation too much, like many who use GPS systems in their car you will find the odd occasion where the system will not do what is expected and you need to over ride the presented information with a large dollop of common sense!


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## derrick (11 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Let me know how you plan your route.


@YukonBoy Just a bump. Or did you get lost.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> @YukonBoy Just a bump. Or did you get lost.



Nope I pick a list of villages to pass through in sequence. If a short list I hold it in my head, longer I'll write down a list of them and put in route sheet holder on stem. If there are any tricky navigation bits I'll make a note of the turns. Most of the time you can just follow the sign posts. Map in saddlebag as backup. Works a treat anywhere in the country, as well as abroad, though in France noting road numbers works better.


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## Phaeton (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Nope I pick a list of villages to pass through in sequence. If a short list I hold it in my head, longer I'll write down a list of them and put in route sheet holder on stem. If there are any tricky navigation bits I'll make a note of the turns. Most of the time you can just follow the sign posts. Map in saddlebag as backup. Works a treat anywhere in the country, as well as abroad, though in France noting road numbers works better.


Works if you're using roads, not so good it you're using bridleways where the signs have accidentally been knocked over.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Works if you're using roads, not so good it you're using bridleways where the signs have accidentally been knocked over.



Use a compass and a route sheet with distances for that. Most Bridleways signs don't have a destination on them anyway apart from where they leave the road. It's not hard navigating without a GPS. You should try it.


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## derrick (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Nope I pick a list of villages to pass through in sequence. If a short list I hold it in my head, longer I'll write down a list of them and put in route sheet holder on stem. If there are any tricky navigation bits I'll make a note of the turns. Most of the time you can just follow the sign posts. Map in saddlebag as backup. Works a treat anywhere in the country, as well as abroad, though in France noting road numbers works better.


Sounds like a lot of faffing about.do you use waterproof maps? I have a lot of routes in my head. Some of them 80 milers. But nomally anymore than 50 miles it goes on the Wahoo. Rain wind or shine the route is always in front of me.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> Sounds like a lot of faffing about.do you use waterproof maps? I have a lot of routes in my head. Some of them 80 milers. But nomally anymore than 50 miles it goes on the Wahoo. Rain wind or shine the route is always in front of me.



Less faffing than messing with your wahoo by sounds of things, far quicker to draw up a list of places. Some use electronic technology for its own sake, which fine, but far from necessary. Waterproofing you just need a clear sandwich bag and some bar bags have a built in map holder. Plus also far more flexible is you change parts of the route.


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## Phaeton (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> You should try it.


Why, if I go somewhere new I'm happy to plan on the PC before load it into Komoot & follow the arrows, I'm not arseing about getting maps out mid ride, shoot if I wanted to do that I'd buy a carbon road bike.


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## derrick (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Less faffing than messing with your wahoo by sounds of things, far quicker to draw up a list of places. Some use electronic technology for its own sake, which fine, but far from necessary. Waterproofing you just need a clear sandwich bag and some bar bags have a built in map holder. Plus also far more flexible is you change parts of the route.


You obviously have never used one.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> You obviously have never used one.



You are mistaken. Try a route without one, it's only a faff, and hard if you're not the best at navigation but really it's the simplest of methods. You'll be far more aware of where you are rather than slavishly following that line on the small screen.


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## derrick (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> You are mistaken. Try a route without one, it's only a faff, and hard if you're not the best at navigation but really it's the simplest of methods. You'll be far more aware of where you are rather than slavishly following that line on the small screen.


I have done a lot of sailing, using charts is not a problem, while at sea there is no room for errors, the GPS was the backup. but on land i like the easy life. I do not want to keep stopping to look at maps. each to there own, you stick with maps i will do it the easy way.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

derrick said:


> I have done a lot of sailing, using charts is not a problem, while at sea there is no room for errors, the GPS was the backup. but on land i like the easy life. I do not want to keep stopping to look at maps. each to there own, you stick with maps i will do it the easy way.



You don't the map is the backup. Most of the time you just look at the sign post at a junction. Fast, easy, no need to mess around.


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## Shut Up Legs (25 Aug 2019)

I thought I'd revive this thread, and ask some questions: have any of you used the Wahoo Elemnt Roam for a while, and if so

- how did you find it overall?
- how is the battery life? It's claimed to be 17 hours, but under what conditions, i.e. if you're using the navigation feature is the battery life less than that?
- how is the GPS accuracy?
- how is the unit's overall reliability? Does it appear to have any really annoying software bugs?

Regards & thanks,

--- Victor.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Aug 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I thought I'd revive this thread, and ask some questions: have any of you used the Wahoo Elemnt Roam for a while, and if so
> 
> - how did you find it overall?
> - how is the battery life? It's claimed to be 17 hours, but under what conditions, i.e. if you're using the navigation feature is the battery life less than that?
> ...



I don’t think it has been around long enough yet for a long term view. When they have been about, the Roam is an upgrade from my Elemnt that I will be considering.


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## Shut Up Legs (25 Aug 2019)

Here's another entry into the bicycle GPS computer market: the xplova:
https://www.xplova.com/gb/product/X3
They also have the X5. Just as some action cameras have builtin GPS computer, this is a GPS computer with builtin action camera.


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