# "Road Tax"



## killiekosmos (6 Oct 2011)

I came across this on the "What Do they Know" web-site. It is a partial response from DVLA to a request from someone to know how they spent his Road Tax.

"I can advise, that Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) makes an important contribution to general taxation revenues. VED is an annual tax payment on the licence that each vehicle requires to run on the public road network. These roads are paid for through general taxation. The current structure of VED, which is arranged according to vehicle type and registration date, was set by successive Governments.

General taxation is the means by which the Government, by Parliament's consent, funds the needs that our nation places on the state. The state provides for things like universal healthcare, education, the defence of the realm and transport infrastructure. The Government funds these services on a daily needs basis from the Consolidated Fund, which is the central pool of the nation's financial resources. Devoting specific sources of revenue to specific public service spending is an inefficient way for the state to manage its finances.

There has been no direct relationship between VED and road expenditure since 1937. Since then, all sources of revenue have contributed to funding a whole range of Government spending under the Treasury's management of the Consolidated Fund. In this way, resources can be applied efficiently and flexibly according to public expenditure priorities. The responsibility for expenditure on Motorways and Trunk Roads lies with the Highways Agency in England, devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales, and for all other roads responsibility lies with the relevant local authority.


This might be useful to quote in any You don't pay Road Tax debates.


----------



## gaz (6 Oct 2011)

OR you could just send them to this website http://ipayroadtax.com/


----------



## downfader (8 Oct 2011)

..any link to the original site?


----------



## Chutzpah (8 Oct 2011)

gaz said:


> OR you could just send them to this website http://ipayroadtax.com/



You could, but I have had a couple of people state "well they *would* say that, wouldn't they?" in response.

i.e. they just assume that it's made up


----------



## Little yellow Brompton (9 Oct 2011)

killiekosmos said:


> This might be useful to quote in any You don't pay Road Tax debates.



No point, there is never any such thing as a debate once the " you don't pay road tax" card is played and anyone that plays it won't be willing to listen.


----------



## yello (9 Oct 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> there is never any such thing as a debate once the " you don't pay road tax" card is played and anyone that plays it won't be willing to listen.



True enough. There are times when you don't waste you time on lost causes and simply ride away. 

In all walks of life, there are people who are simply wrong but will not listen to reason. They invariably work in a government office


----------



## twobiker (9 Oct 2011)

If someone says "you don't pay road tax"you could always look smug and go "yeah how great is that"and ride off .


----------



## MontyVeda (9 Oct 2011)

or you could jump in first and shout something equally irrelevant... _I pay council tax_


----------



## yello (9 Oct 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> or you could jump in first and shout something equally irrelevant... _I pay council tax_



I like that line of thinking. 

If confronted with the 'I pay road tax' argument, one could respond with something completely nonsensical like 'Have you a recipe for bakewell tart?' or 'Did you know that the Jerusalem Artichoke is not actually an artichoke at all but a member of the sunflower family?'


----------



## the snail (9 Oct 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> or you could jump in first and shout something equally irrelevant... _I pay council tax_



Not irrelevant, local roads are maintained by the council.


----------



## the snail (9 Oct 2011)

twobiker said:


> If someone says "you don't pay road tax"you could always look smug and go "yeah how great is that"and ride off .



You could also point out that you don't pay fuel duty or MOT fees either


----------



## dawesome (15 Oct 2011)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YmK6Z52tcY


Stupidity in action.


----------



## MontyVeda (15 Oct 2011)

yello said:


> I like that line of thinking.
> 
> If confronted with the 'I pay road tax' argument, one could respond with something completely nonsensical like 'Have you a recipe for bakewell tart?' or *'Did you know that the Jerusalem Artichoke is not actually an artichoke at all but a member of the sunflower family?'*



now that I'm going to try to remember!


----------



## downfader (15 Oct 2011)

dawesome said:


> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=5YmK6Z52tcY
> 
> Stupidity in action.




Flashy pink shirt that.


----------



## yello (15 Oct 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> now that I'm going to try to remember!



...and it's not from Jerusalem either.


----------



## Bad Company (19 Oct 2011)

Call it road tax or road fund licence it's just a tax that needs to be paid by car \ vehicle owners.

Most on this forum are cyclists AND drivers and therefore pay road tax.


----------



## aberal (19 Oct 2011)

Bad Company said:


> Call it road tax or road fund licence it's just a tax that needs to be paid by car \ vehicle owners.
> 
> Most on this forum are cyclists AND drivers and therefore pay road tax.



...and therefore pay Vehicle Exise Duty AND Income Tax AND Council Tax but NOT Road Tax. There is no such thing.


----------



## dawesome (19 Oct 2011)

It's incredible there are grown adults who don't understand how roads are paid for.


----------



## Bad Company (19 Oct 2011)

aberal said:


> ...and therefore pay Vehicle Exise Duty AND Income Tax AND Council Tax but NOT Road Tax. There is no such thing.



Call it Road Tax, Road Fund License or Vehicle Excise Duty - It comes to the same thing, you have to pay it to run a car \ vehicle. The name of the tax has changed over the years for political reasons but the principle remains the same.


----------



## Norm (19 Oct 2011)

I think that BC's point is that is indeed the crux and blowing off about the name is a distraction which labels people as irrelevant pedants and fails to address the crucial point.


----------



## dawesome (19 Oct 2011)

Bad Company said:


> Call it Road Tax, Road Fund License or Vehicle Excise Duty - It comes to the same thing, you have to pay it to run a car \ vehicle.




Crucially, no you don't.


----------



## Bad Company (19 Oct 2011)

dawesome said:


> Crucially, no you don't.



Actually you're right. There are 1 or 2 very low emission vehicles which are indeed exempt.


----------



## siadwell (19 Oct 2011)

Norm said:


> I think that BC's point is that is indeed the crux and blowing off about the name is a distraction which labels people as irrelevant pedants and fails to address the crucial point.



Call it VED or call it car tax, but not RFL or road tax.

According to government data (http://carfueldata.d...y-ved-band.aspx), there are currently 71 models of car available in the UK which are in VED bands A*.

Drivers of these vehicles pay no VED, but I doubt they'll ever be told that they don't belong on the road because they don't pay "road tax". 

* A further 745 models in bands B,C and D are zero-rated in the first year.


----------



## Bad Company (19 Oct 2011)

siadwell said:


> Drivers of these vehicles pay no VED, but I doubt they'll ever be told that they don't belong on the road because they don't pay "road tax".



I think such views are held by a very small loud minority of motorists.


----------



## Bad Company (19 Oct 2011)

dawesome said:


> It's incredible there are grown adults who don't understand how roads are paid for.




Then read up on the subject. It's not rocket science.


----------



## Dan B (19 Oct 2011)

Bad Company said:


> I think such views are held by a very small loud minority of motorists.



Must be very small indeed, as I've never met one. Nor one who thinks that owners of classic cars shouldn't be allowed on the road.

Which makes it very strange indeed that so many still believe it to be the case w.r.t cyclists


----------



## dawesome (19 Oct 2011)

Dan B said:


> Must be very small indeed, as I've never met one. Nor one who thinks that owners of classic cars shouldn't be allowed on the road.
> 
> Which makes it very strange indeed that so many still believe it to be the case w.r.t cyclists




Precisely. "Road Tax" confers ownership so cyclists are seen as intruders by quite a large number of people, see newspaper comments, speak to work colleagues or letters in the press.

Take Mr Angry Pink Shirt upthread, 
I don't imagine he screeches to a halt and screams "You don't pay road tax!" at the 300,000+ other road users exempt from VED, like classic cars, cars belonging to the disabled, steam engines, mowers, electric vehicles, Fiat 500, Peugeot 207, ambulances, fire engines and Her Majesty The Queen? Or maybe he does.


----------



## Norm (19 Oct 2011)

Vehicle tax and there's a difference between exempt and zero rated.


----------



## aberal (20 Oct 2011)

Bad Company said:


> Call it Road Tax, Road Fund License or Vehicle Excise Duty - It comes to the same thing, you have to pay it to run a car \ vehicle. The name of the tax has changed over the years for political reasons but the principle remains the same.



Well, duh! 

You seem to have misunderstood the whole point of this thread.


----------



## 400bhp (20 Oct 2011)

the snail said:


> You could also point out that you don't pay fuel duty or MOT fees either



^^^This

or, reply "I know and it's feckin awesome" whilst grinning.

Pointless conversation deserves an equally pointless reply.


----------



## downfader (20 Oct 2011)

400bhp said:


> ^^^This
> 
> or, reply "I know and it's feckin awesome" whilst grinning.
> 
> Pointless conversation deserves an equally pointless reply.




And exactly the point that people need to understand is that theres no MOT on bicycles for the simple reason that theres less to go wrong, and when it does it isnt going to usually kill people. Even an unsafe bike can be stopped if the brakes die by putting shoes down, or jamming a shoe in the tyre of the rear wheel..

Bikes could save people so much money. Everyone who has sat down and worked out how much they save (like my Brother did when he went over to fairweather cycling) must surely hear the whingers and think "what the hell have you been drinking?"


----------



## Bigsharn (1 Nov 2011)

On topic, but slightly on a tangent. Ebay uses the term "Road Tax" on their motors section and listings. Anyone have a complaints address that isn't in America that we can bombard?


----------



## jonesy (1 Nov 2011)

It doesn't matter if Ebay calls it "Road tax", the argument is pointless because the distinction isn't of the slightest interest to people who want to hate cyclists.


----------



## aberal (1 Nov 2011)

jonesy said:


> It doesn't matter if Ebay calls it "Road tax", the argument is pointless because the distinction isn't of the slightest interest to people who want to hate cyclists.



There are those who will no doubt hate cyclists whatever logic is thrown at them - but the distinction isn't pointless. Their argument is that cyclists should be allowed on the road because cyclists don't pay for the upkeep of roads, through road tax. Whereas cyclists do pay for it, via income tax and council tax. It's a matter of education, that's all.


----------



## jonesy (1 Nov 2011)

aberal said:


> There are those who will no doubt hate cyclists whatever logic is thrown at them - but the distinction isn't pointless. *Their argument is that cyclists should be allowed on the road because cyclists don't pay for the upkeep of roads, through road tax*. Whereas cyclists do pay for it, via income tax and council tax. It's a matter of education, that's all.



This presupposes that those who use that argument have arrived at it though some sort of process of reasoning that is amenable to change when presented with better information. Alas, I fear it is simply something people say to express their general contempt. They don't actually care about the definition of tax, what they object to is a) the fact that we are cyclists and b) we don't pay the things they have pay, irrespective of what those things are called or their purposes. Getting into an argument about the definition of a tax, or citing other taxes that we do pay, is simply a pedants' argument.


----------



## aberal (1 Nov 2011)

jonesy said:


> *This presupposes that those who use that argument have arrived at it though some sort of process of reasoning that is amenable to change when presented with better information. Alas, I fear it is simply something people say to express their general contempt. They don't actually care about the definition of tax, what they object to is a) the fact that we are cyclists and b) we don't pay the things they have pay, irrespective of what those things are called or their purposes. *Getting into an argument about the definition of a tax, or citing other taxes that we do pay, is simply a pedants' argument.



I don't disagree with what you say (highlighted in bold). I disagree with it being a pedants argument. The more people who are aware of the subtle differences the better. I have been in such arguments over cyclists and road tax payments with friends of mine who like to pretend that they are "just joking" about it - but in reality are betraying deep rooted antagonisms. The last such argument I had was a good several months ago when I was personally unaware that "road tax" didn't exist. Through this forum I now know better. I'm looking forward to my next argument with them on the subject. Thus we shall disseminate knowledge, and educate.


----------



## Norm (1 Nov 2011)

It doesn't matter what it's called though. Motorists have to pay a tax before their vehicles are licenced to drive on public roads - so road tax would be a sensible name for it. 

The errors are that it is used to fund the roads and that it confers no priority entitlement. Or the Fiat 500 Twinair (zero rated) would be relegated onto the pavements with the cyclists and every other road user would have to give way to 44 tonne artics (who pay nearly £2k).


----------



## aberal (1 Nov 2011)

Reckon we should agree to differ,


----------



## gaz (2 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> The errors are that it is used to fund the roads and that it confers no priority entitlement.



It doesn't directly fund the roads.


----------



## Norm (3 Nov 2011)

gaz said:


> It doesn't directly fund the roads.







Which is why I said that was an error.


----------



## lukesdad (4 Nov 2011)

I would pay cycle tax were it introduced.


----------



## rich p (4 Nov 2011)

lukesdad said:


> I would pay cycle tax were it introduced.




Didn't someone introduce cycle tacks during a Scottish sportive?


----------



## Dan B (4 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Didn't someone introduce cycle tacks during a Scottish sportive?



Yes, it closed the road


----------



## gaz (4 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> Which is why I said that was an error.


LOL I completely missed that. I'll get my coat


----------



## 400bhp (8 Nov 2011)

lukesdad said:


> I would pay cycle tax were it introduced.



And bears sh1t in the woods too.


----------



## the snail (8 Nov 2011)

lukesdad said:


> I would pay cycle tax were it introduced.



How about 'pedestrian tax' too?


----------



## Mad at urage (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> And bears sh1t in the woods too.


Well, they would if they were introduced


----------



## lukesdad (9 Nov 2011)

the snail said:


> How about 'pedestrian tax' too?




I dont walk anywhere so it wouldn t apply so, yeah tax the blighters


----------



## lukesdad (9 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> And bears sh1t in the woods too.




Really ?


----------



## Richard Mann (9 Nov 2011)

According to the Danes, every km travelled by bike saves the state money (with whatever it costs in tracks more than outweighed by health benefits). So the state should pay us.


----------



## SquareDaff (9 Nov 2011)

Richard Mann said:


> According to the Danes, every km travelled by bike saves the state money (with whatever it costs in tracks more than outweighed by health benefits). So the state should pay us.


Please keep that quiet - otherwise cyclists will be working 3 years longer than anyone else before they can claim a pension as they live longer!!!


----------



## Bad Company (22 Nov 2011)

Most of us are cyclists AND drivers. Road tax, road fund licence call it what you will we all have to pay it. 

Yes I know that if your car is a glorified elestic band with no guts you can get away without paying road tax - I also know that would be boring.


----------



## Bicycle (22 Nov 2011)

I really don't have a problem with the 'You don't pay Road Tax!' argument.

I almost feel left out that no-one has ever shouted it at me...

It is wrong and the assumptions it makes are wrong, but ignorance is everywhere and doesn't really hurt.

I've heard Tories claim their party has always been against UK membership of the EEC/EU.

Many US citizens believe that WW2 was fought against the USSR. Bizarre, but true.

Similarly, many people believe that Pavlova is the best pudding, when it is clearly Bread & Butter Pudding with Custard.

Ignorance is sent to try us.


----------



## the snail (1 Dec 2011)

Bicycle said:


> Many US citizens believe that WW2 was fought against the USSR. Bizarre, but true.


Well it was in a way - if it hadn't been for the yanks we would probably have ended up being part of the USSR.


----------

