# Nightriders



## Twilkes (10 Nov 2019)

How do you deal with riding at night, especially in winter when daylight hours are obviously much reduced?

Is it just good lights and take care?

Traffic density in the middle of the night will also reduce, but can that be a problem in that drivers aren't expecting to see anything on the road, much less a bicycle?


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## DCLane (10 Nov 2019)

Good lights, warmer clothing plus extras just in case, probably an extra tube / tools, take quieter roads.


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## LeetleGreyCells (10 Nov 2019)

Back up lights in case your main lights fail.


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## Spiderweb (10 Nov 2019)

Good lights for sure, I have a back up set just in case which are not brilliant but are good enough to be seen with (I’ve never had to use them). Warm clothing with some reflective bits is good too.


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## sleuthey (10 Nov 2019)

I find it's important to have a light to see where your going and another (flashing) light to be seen by others.

High visibility jacket

Reflectors (legal requirement)

Angle my light down to not blind people

Choose street lamp routes and routes with better surfaces even if they are slightly longer


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## raleighnut (10 Nov 2019)

I run 4 front lights, these Electron with 8 LEDs and a couple of Cateye 'Opticubes' on the brackets you can see,


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## Slick (10 Nov 2019)

I enjoy riding at night but as well as the usual lights and reflectors, I think you have to be careful with your chosen route as well. My brother and I have a 150 mile ride planned for early next year but he wants to complete it at night, as there will be less traffic and I want to do it earlier in the morning as it will be daylight by the time we hit the main traffic. Obviously we just want to be safe and we have different interpretations on how best to do it.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Nov 2019)

Head torch for mechanicals. As above good lights and redundancy so if any fail you're still good to ride, even if a bit slower. My main front light is Dynamo, backup is battery. Rear is two battery lights, one on each seat stay, plus a fibre flare. Warm layers for the colder weather than during the day. Emergency rations to keep you going between stops. Make extra care to avoid hitting potholes in the dark at night. Other than that riding at night is a delight and usually in deserted lanes for an Audax.


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## Twilkes (10 Nov 2019)

Slick said:


> I enjoy riding at night but as well as the usual lights and reflectors, I think you have to be careful with your chosen route as well. My brother and I have a 150 mile ride planned for early next year but he wants to complete it at night, as there will be less traffic and I want to do it earlier in the morning as it will be daylight by the time we hit the main traffic. Obviously we just want to be safe and we have different interpretations on how best to do it.



I've wondered about this - first thoughts are to stay off the A roads, but visibility tends to be better on A roads as they're straighter and with shallower curves, and fairly regularly you'll go through civilisation lit by street lamps. Side roads/lanes may be quieter but then no-one will be expecting to see a bike and might be on top of you much more quickly. Guess it depends on the roads, but often you won't know until you get there. My scariest experience on a bike was bendy country roads shrouded by trees, very dark and visibility around corners was often very short, I dreaded the sound of an engine coming up behind me.

If a driver is paying attention, you're arguably more visible lit up at night than in the daytime, but they never seem to be able to pass you as sensibly though.


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## Heltor Chasca (10 Nov 2019)

I like to be on the road after last orders. Drink driving is still endemically an issue in rural England. West London is still (always) alive during the small hours in Summer. Islamic food shops, grandmothers and infants are still about doing their thing. And of course Heathrow and the armies of shift workers don’t sleep

I take spare lights and a head torch. Extra clothing (jacket, overshoes, beanie, inner gloves and long fingered gloves and a buff) I have emergency food too.

I love it when the Sun appears and warms you on many levels. I put my backlight on my Wahoo. The warm glow seems to keep me awake.

I revel in the hallucinations I occasionally have. I once stopped to photograph a wheel sized spider only to realise it was in fact a dock plant.

If you are interested in ‘the night’ take a listen to the ‘Nocturne’ podcasts. Brilliant.


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## Slick (10 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> I've wondered about this - first thoughts are to stay off the A roads, but visibility tends to be better on A roads as they're straighter and with shallower curves, and fairly regularly you'll go through civilisation lit by street lamps. Side roads/lanes may be quieter but then no-one will be expecting to see a bike and might be on top of you much more quickly. Guess it depends on the roads, but often you won't know until you get there. My scariest experience on a bike was bendy country roads shrouded by trees, very dark and visibility around corners was often very short, I dreaded the sound of an engine coming up behind me.
> 
> If a driver is paying attention, you're arguably more visible lit up at night than in the daytime, but they never seem to be able to pass you as sensibly though.


I agree with some of what you say but not all. Our ride will mostly be on an A class road with zero street lights, this is the dictionary definition of twisting country roads with some really heavy traffic, by which I mean busy and lgv's. My feeling is, through the day you are almost expected to be there more than you ever would be at 3 in the morning. Whilst I know it's nowhere near the same, I also have what happened to Mike Hall in mind as well. Still not completely sure how we will deal with it.


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## Twilkes (10 Nov 2019)

Maybe plan for a get-out route if the first choice ends up being uncomfortable, I've done that before. Which A roads, out of interest?

I've also wondered about a flashing amber light on the back, that always gets my attention when driving as they're usually on large/slow moving vehicles.


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## Slick (10 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> Maybe plan for a get-out route if the first choice ends up being uncomfortable, I've done that before. Which A roads, out of interest?
> 
> I've also wondered about a flashing amber light on the back, that always gets my attention when driving as they're usually on large/slow moving vehicles.


A82 and 83. Not as bad as they once were and you do see the odd brave soul like @Pat "5mph" and chums who fear nothing.


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## Heltor Chasca (10 Nov 2019)

In my mind you are safer at night. The visible contrast is greater than in the day or in the flat gloom. Anecdotally drivers tend to be a bit more ginger around us.


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## numbnuts (10 Nov 2019)

Wear red tights 
Car driver “look at that prat in the red tights” - at least he/she has seen you.


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## Twilkes (10 Nov 2019)

Slick said:


> A82 and 83. Not as bad as they once were and you do see the odd brave soul like @Pat "5mph" and chums who fear nothing.



Ah okay, that's maybe different to extra-urban A roads in England that link towns 12-15 miles apart with half a dozen villages in between, there's no interruptions for miles on some of those roads. I would just be lit up well I think, that's what I took from the incident you referred to. I'm not a fan of normal hi-viz but I have one of those grey/silver jackets for nights and it's amazing the amount of light they throw back.


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## johnnyb47 (10 Nov 2019)

Pick and choose your roads wisely and stick to them. The ride may become a little repetitive but its amazing how quickly you make a mental note of were the nasty pot holes are. They can come out of nowhere with even the best of lights. 
Have the mentality to cycle slower too. They roads can throw up some nasty surprises this time of year. Leaves and greasy road surfaces can easily catch you off guard.


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## Fab Foodie (10 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> I've wondered about this - first thoughts are to stay off the A roads, but visibility tends to be better on A roads as they're straighter and with shallower curves, and fairly regularly you'll go through civilisation lit by street lamps. Side roads/lanes may be quieter but then no-one will be expecting to see a bike and might be on top of you much more quickly. Guess it depends on the roads, but often you won't know until you get there. My scariest experience on a bike was bendy country roads shrouded by trees, very dark and visibility around corners was often very short, I dreaded the sound of an engine coming up behind me.
> 
> If a driver is paying attention, you're arguably more visible lit up at night than in the daytime, but they never seem to be able to pass you as sensibly though.



I rode across Dungeness in the dead of night, it’s scary enough by day, but at night alone in the still of the night....I’ve never pedalled so fast!


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## Ajax Bay (10 Nov 2019)

Twilkes said:


> bendy country roads shrouded by trees, very dark and visibility around corners was often very short, I dreaded the sound of an engine coming up behind me.


Why (dread)? You've got decent rear lights showing, you have said you're wearing a reflective upper garment, and the closing speed for a motor vehicle from behind is less. You will see the light from headlights behind, and I always look round: such movement aids conspicuity. Motor vehicles will slow and want to pass, and I'll look to help them (on bendy (narrow) country roads). On wider roads they just drive past, bit like in daytime.
Riding at night needs full attention (and potholes, leaves and gravel are the greater hazard imo).
You will see the loom of oncoming vehicle headlights approaching - I think on narrower roads it's actually safer than during the day, and I make sure my headlight returns the visibility compliment before switching to low power. Seeing your light the approaching driver will be expecting another (wider) vehicle and ease off/slow (depending on road width), and you'll pass one another safely.
Through the night rides: Sterling to Lochgilphead (early on West Highlands 1000 - 2018) and Daventry to Snaith (Easter Arrow 2019). More recently on PBP: Chateauneuf-en-Thymerai to Fougeres - 247km in 101/2 hours of Sunday's darkness: not much loneliness that night!


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## StuAff (10 Nov 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> I rode across Dungeness in the dead of night, it’s scary enough by day, but at night alone in the still of the night....I’ve never pedalled so fast!


I rather like the place. Like Dunwich, it has a bleak blasted edge-of-the-world quality. And a nuclear power station. Derek Jarman's garden is lovely.

(Yes, my inner goth is undead and well)


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## Twilkes (10 Nov 2019)

I didn't have the reflective back then. It was the visibility, some corners you couldn't see very far around so I never quite knew whether a vehicle would know I was there from far enough back. Oncoming cars rarely dipped their lights meaning I was blinded for a few seconds before and after they passed until my eyes adjusted again. And the overhanging trees meant it was starless and Bible black.


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## Pat "5mph" (10 Nov 2019)

Slick said:


> A82 and 83. Not as bad as they once were and you do see the odd brave soul like @Pat "5mph" and chums who fear nothing.


Not quite true this lol.
I love riding at night, though, when the roads are quiet, urban riding that is of course, not tried country lanes.
Mind, night as in 10pm and later, not early evening, when there can still be quite a lot of traffic.


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## Fab Foodie (11 Nov 2019)

StuAff said:


> I rather like the place. Like Dunwich, it has a bleak blasted edge-of-the-world quality. And a nuclear power station. Derek Jarman's garden is lovely.
> 
> (Yes, my inner goth is undead and well)


Don't get me wrong, I like the place in the daylight. But alone in the pitch-black it becomes a bit too much 'otherworldly' for my liking. At one point I was spooked by a badger just sitting on the opposite verge watching me with menace in its eye....


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## Fab Foodie (11 Nov 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Not quite true this lol.
> I love riding at night, though, when the roads are quiet, urban riding that is of course, not tried country lanes.
> Mind, night as in 10pm and later, not early evening, when there can still be quite a lot of traffic.


I agree, Urban night-righting is the dogs-dooh-daahs....


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## sheddy (11 Nov 2019)

Remember to put reflectives on the sides.
Check out the 3M spoke reflectors.


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## Twilkes (11 Nov 2019)

sheddy said:


> Remember to put reflectives on the sides.
> Check out the 3M spoke reflectors.



Good call, I had something similar years ago for a commute but once they got dirty they were impossible to clean. Will have a look what's available now. Maybe some Spokey-Dokeys for the blind drivers.

Also have some wrap around heel lights that my wife bought me, the up and down movement should draw people's attention.


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## furball (11 Nov 2019)

Be familiar with where the pot holes and lumps, bumps and road edges are on your route before riding in the dark. If riding on unlit country roads, have a spread of light that allows you to distinguish where the road meets the verge.


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## StuAff (12 Nov 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like the place in the daylight. But alone in the pitch-black it becomes a bit too much 'otherworldly' for my liking. At one point I was spooked by a badger just sitting on the opposite verge watching me with menace in its eye....


Reminded me of this.....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADwd5gOpCE


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## si_c (2 Dec 2019)

I truly love riding at night, and in winter, rush hour is my favourite time to be on the bike, but that's because I like the brilliance of the lights compared to during daylight. 

Good lights are an imperative - depending on how often you ride at night and for how long - modern battery lights are fantastic. Expect to spend between £60 and £100 for a good main "to see with" front light with a good range of power levels and battery life. Also budget for a secondary light to blink / in case your main dies and a set of good rear lights (I've got stacks of these varying from expensive Lezyne ones to Aldi's finest).

Once you've got lights sorted you need to think about reflectives - a good night time jacket/gilet with reflective strips to catch car headlights and as mentioned spoke reflectors help raise your visibility from the side as well as the front or rear.

To start with just get out and see where your existing equipment feels lacking and then find something to fill the gap. You'll work out what works for you given time.


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2019)

This takes me back to my only long solo night ride, an audax. All roads were new to me. The low point was a stretch of smallish A road/large B road where I was repeatedly dazzled by oncoming traffic, who didn't see fit do dip their lights for me. This got to the point that I could be effectively blind when the vehicle had passed and I'd have to stop to pull myself together and recover. I didn't enjoy that.


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## jongooligan (5 Dec 2019)

If setting off late, say from ten until midnight, I'll have a snooze in the afternoon. Sometimes plan overnighters where I can get my head down for a couple of hours between 1 and 3 in a mates conservatory or shed.

I try to spend the darkest hours on main roads where navigation is easier. Don't want to be faffing with maps or Garmin glitches in the dark. Also more likely to come across 24 hr garages for a caffeine boost.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Dec 2019)

Decent lights, and slow down.


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## uphillstruggler (13 Oct 2020)

Country lanes lit by your front light only are a real pleasure, any time between 10.30 and 3 in the morning when all else is silent are a whole new riding experience 

the fuzzy brain that plays little tricks keeps me on my guard

it’s an absolute pleasure and something to be enjoyed, either solo or with a small (quiet) group


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## PMarkey (13 Oct 2020)

Twilkes said:


> I didn't have the reflective back then. It was the visibility, some corners you couldn't see very far around so I never quite knew whether a vehicle would know I was there from far enough back. Oncoming cars rarely dipped their lights meaning I was blinded for a few seconds before and after they passed until my eyes adjusted again. And the overhanging trees meant it was starless and Bible black.





Dogtrousers said:


> This takes me back to my only long solo night ride, an audax. All roads were new to me. The low point was a stretch of smallish A road/large B road where I was repeatedly dazzled by oncoming traffic, who didn't see fit do dip their lights for me. This got to the point that I could be effectively blind when the vehicle had passed and I'd have to stop to pull myself together and recover. I didn't enjoy that.



This used to drive me mad on audax rides,on plenty of occasions I have had to come to a complete stop as I was unable to see anything due to oncoming cars not dipping their lights but the problem went away when I switched over to Busch & Muller Ixion IQ lights which have a cut off so as to not dazzle oncoming drivers plus switching to low power when on high or flicking to high power and back to low usually caused oncoming drivers to dip their lights thinking I was a either a motorcycle or a car with one light out  the only problem is getting to the switch as it's quite small and low profile


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

LeetleGreyCells said:


> Back up lights in case your main lights fail.


and back-up batteries - sod the extra weight.
Batteries can drain faster of course in reduced temperatures.


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

Twilkes said:


> I've wondered about this - first thoughts are to stay off the A roads, but visibility tends to be better on A roads as they're straighter and with shallower curves, and fairly regularly you'll go through civilisation lit by street lamps. Side roads/lanes may be quieter but then no-one will be expecting to see a bike and might be on top of you much more quickly. Guess it depends on the roads, but often you won't know until you get there. My scariest experience on a bike was bendy country roads shrouded by trees, very dark and visibility around corners was often very short, I dreaded the sound of an engine coming up behind me.
> 
> If a driver is paying attention, you're arguably more visible lit up at night than in the daytime, but they never seem to be able to pass you as sensibly though.


I generally prefer the dark quiet lanes - I love the peace - tend to think you are more visible on these as your lights really stand out. Of course you could be unfortunate enough to encounter a total nutjob but that could happen anywhere. With cycletravels routing I can often ride all night hardly encountering a car, especially true I think in these cursed times.
With regard to visibility and bends, maybe your lights aren't good enough. I find a GPS with a map is particularly useful at night as you can see the bends coming up on the map.
I never go too fast at night anyway - I'm in it for the long haul, all night, and so it's particularly important to pace myself. Can always speed up as dawn approaches. And you do of course have to pay particular attention to the surface, particularly downhill - I never let the bike go on night downhills - the extra braking this entails means that you do of course have to check your blocks closely before setting off, particularly if it's wet.
Anywhere there are streetlamps I switch the headlight off, or at least switch to low output, in order to lenghen battery run-time for high power usage. I always also have a front flasher. And two rears.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Oct 2020)

A and B roads for making progress overnight. Most of them are empty with good surfaces and white line markings for making easy progress. Depends how well you know the roads but other than trunk roads many are deserted at night and make for relaxed riding. Lanes on the other hand can be full of gravel and / or potholes and in the middle of the night drain your brain from the concentration. Lanes are fine if you know them and their condition is relatively good.


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> This takes me back to my only long solo night ride, an audax. All roads were new to me. The low point was a stretch of smallish A road/large B road where I was repeatedly dazzled by oncoming traffic, who didn't see fit do dip their lights for me. This got to the point that I could be effectively blind when the vehicle had passed and I'd have to stop to pull myself together and recover. I didn't enjoy that.



I used to do night rides in my MTB helmet with a peak. I'd cover the peak in 3M Reflective and if I was getting blinded tip my head down to avoid being dazzled. Usually worked in that the driver turned off the high beams. 
You can get cycling caps with a reflective stripe on the peak now. That'd work too.


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> A and B roads for making progress overnight. Most of them are empty with good surfaces and white line markings for making easy progress. Depends how well you know the roads but other than trunk roads many are deserted at night and make for relaxed riding. Lanes on the other hand can be full of gravel and / or potholes and in the middle of the night drain your brain from the concentration. Lanes are fine if you know them and their condition is relatively good.


interesting view.
I did an all night ride recently that had a fair few miles by a canal - that's cycletravel's interesting routeing - I think I'll avoid canals at night in future - lots of concentrating on the surface, always a chance of ending up in the drink if you aren't careful - need lights on full power - and not fast - and once on the canal you can be committed for a fair while as the surface deteriorates. I should stress that because of the area I had little fear of being mugged.


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

jongooligan said:


> Also more likely to come across 24 hr garages for a caffeine boost.



This is why I carry a small stove and 2 cup espresso pot on most of my night rides. Faster than going in somewhere/semi hunting for somewhere - and the coffee is better - am fussy about my coffee - also a lot cheaper as I often do the pot twice - ie 4 espressos. Have made coffees on benches by a stoke canal, behind churches, bus shelters, really nice clean rural underpass near Odiham on a ride from London to Southampton. Food also important of course - to go with the coffee I recommend Lidl's big tray chocolate breakfast brioche thingy - take a knife to cut it.


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## Twilkes (13 Oct 2020)

After having done a long night ride recently, I can confirm that you can only hear the silence when you stop moving, wind noise has a lot to answer for.  Mix of roads, all very quiet with few cars, great experience, will keep me out on my bike through the winter evenings.


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## Shreds (13 Oct 2020)

Yeah love night riding.

Four lights at the front, three at the back ensure that motorists spot you. All advice given above is totally spot on, but just be aware how cold it gets around 04:00am.

Wrap up warm whatever the weather and carry a full tool kit/spares and phone.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Oct 2020)

One consequence of a 10pm curfew and Corona restrictions in general is that roads are a lot quieter before midnight than usual.


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## uphillstruggler (15 Oct 2020)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I like to be on the road after last orders. Drink driving is still endemically an issue in rural England. West London is still (always) alive during the small hours in Summer. Islamic food shops, grandmothers and infants are still about doing their thing. And of course Heathrow and the armies of shift workers don’t sleep
> 
> I take spare lights and a head torch. Extra clothing (jacket, overshoes, beanie, inner gloves and long fingered gloves and a buff) I have emergency food too.
> 
> ...



been listening to the Nocture podcast since your post, good stuff so thanks for the heads up


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