# What is the best lightweight tourer bike that can carry a full camping load?



## Bigtallfatbloke (14 Oct 2008)

I am starting to look at swapping my galaxy for a 60cm smaller lighter galaxy tourer some how...what else might work though?


----------



## jags (14 Oct 2008)

i can safely say there's no such thing as a light weight tourer,im not been smart but no matter what bike you have once you start loading it up it's going to weigh some .super hand built wheels would be the way to go on your own frame,lighter racks maby lighter camping gear.that my 2 cent worth.


----------



## Deafie (14 Oct 2008)

What about a unicycle and BOB trailer?


----------



## Bigtallfatbloke (15 Oct 2008)

..ok..so swapping my 64 galaxy for 60 galaxy isnt such a dumb idea then...its a better fit and will still carry the loads. It's just that I see so many other touring bikes out there (no galaxies though) so I was thinking maybe they all knew better than me?


----------



## vernon (15 Oct 2008)

Deafie said:


> What about a unicycle and BOB trailer?



Ditch the unicycle and just pull the BOB trailer


----------



## Andy in Sig (15 Oct 2008)

As has been said, few tourers will be very light. However the German firm Patria does do good touring bikes. It might be worth finding out what their tourer weighs and comparing it to your Galaxy. There's also an American firm which does a titanium tourer which may be significantly lighter.


----------



## John Ponting (15 Oct 2008)

Visit Mercian and get a proper tourer built to the proper dimensions for you. They know about these things. They will answer all your questions and set the bike up correctly

note: Other frame builders may apply. The money in your pocket will go down but not up.

http://www.cyclinglinks.co.uk/index...eTitle=Touring+Bike+Manufacturers&SearchCat=1


----------



## just jim (15 Oct 2008)

Yup..maybe it's time for something more bespoke BTFG!

As long as you have a bit of spending cash that is...


----------



## Crackle (15 Oct 2008)

I can't believe you're doing this to us again. We'd just all relaxed after the Bianchi buy. Been out on it yet?


----------



## John Ponting (15 Oct 2008)

Crackle said:


> I can't believe you're doing this to us again. We'd just all relaxed after the Bianchi buy. Been out on it yet?



Are you up to date on the Rourke ?


----------



## northernwalker (15 Oct 2008)

Looks like we have a smilar steed...

I have done a bit of research on this and if I do buy another tourer, it will be bespoke. 

Probably a Mercian as my neighbour still rides his after 30-odd years.


----------



## Landslide (15 Oct 2008)

Think about how much full camping kit weighs, then think about how negligible a difference it'll make if you shave a couple of hundred grams off the bike.


----------



## Crackle (15 Oct 2008)

John Ponting said:


> Are you up to date on the Rourke ?



Yes. I stayed out of that one though


----------



## PpPete (17 Oct 2008)

Landslide said:


> Think about how much full camping kit weighs, then think about how negligible a difference it'll make if you shave a couple of hundred grams off the bike.



Couple of kilos more like .... Have you seen his list of camping kit...? it's on another thread here somewhere....

Two camping mats - forsooth, what's wrong with the bracken you find at the side of the road?


----------



## Nigeyy (18 Oct 2008)

I agree with what has been posted -pretty much a lightweight tourer isn't going to save you that much once you're fully loaded. And Galaxy's are decent bikes to start with. But, if you really want to lighten it, consider upgrading to some lightweight components -namely a lighter crank, derailleurs, wheelset, saddle, seatpost, tyres, etc, etc. With a lot of money, you can usually lighten a bike by a kilo. The problem here will be twofold: one, the strength and durability of some lightweight parts is suspect (can't recommend you tour on lightweight radial 24 spokecount wheels for example) and two, the cost involved. Lightweight chi-chi components don't come cheaply.

Personally, unless your bike is really heavy, I'd say just ride it and enjoy it.


----------



## srw (18 Oct 2008)

Nigeyy said:


> But, if you really want to lighten it, consider upgrading to some lightweight components -namely a lighter crank, derailleurs, wheelset, saddle, seatpost, tyres, etc, etc. With a lot of money, you can usually lighten a bike by a kilo.



You can then put two water-bottles on it and add two kilos.



> Personally, unless your bike is really heavy, I'd say just ride it and enjoy it.



Yup. Focus on improving the engine, not the transmission.


----------



## PpPete (18 Oct 2008)

If you want lightweight ground insulation for short toursBTFB... check this out.
Supposed to be very comfortable, but to be honest I've never tried it.
just about light enough to go on the Bianchi....


----------



## Danny (19 Oct 2008)

porkypete said:


> Couple of kilos more like .... Have you seen his list of camping kit...? it's on another thread here somewhere....
> 
> Two camping mats - forsooth, what's wrong with the bracken you find at the side of the road?


Don't forget the portable TV


----------



## CeeDee51 (19 Oct 2008)

Nigeyy said:


> I agree with what has been posted -pretty much a lightweight tourer isn't going to save you that much once you're fully loaded. And Galaxy's are decent bikes to start with. But, if you really want to lighten it, consider upgrading to some lightweight components -namely a lighter crank, derailleurs, wheelset, saddle, seatpost, tyres, etc, etc. With a lot of money, you can usually lighten a bike by a kilo. The problem here will be twofold: one, the strength and durability of some lightweight parts is suspect (can't recommend you tour on lightweight radial 24 spokecount wheels for example) and two, the cost involved. Lightweight chi-chi components don't come cheaply.
> 
> Personally, unless your bike is really heavy, I'd say just ride it and enjoy it.



Surely its easier to lighten the rider. Can't be difficult to lose a kilo


----------



## Nigeyy (20 Oct 2008)

CeeDee51 said:


> Surely its easier to lighten the rider. Can't be difficult to lose a kilo



Or leave a kilos worth of stuff at home! Yes, totally agree!


----------



## Pongunagu (20 Oct 2008)

If the cost of a Mercian doesn't make you wither, what about something from Thorn's bewildering range of touring machines?

Thorn touring bikes


----------



## DJ (20 Oct 2008)

In order to tour light weight, then it is nescessarry to take up what the Americans call "credit card touring"! Yep that's right you just have a bike and a credit card! Oh and a fresh set of underwear!


----------



## JackE (21 Oct 2008)

My Van Nicholas Amazon (9.5kg approx) is around 3kg lighter than my previous Holdsworth 531 tourer. May not sound a lot but the Amazon feels a lot "sprightlier" than the old fella. Titanium aficianados use very technical language to describe this "feeling" and I must admit that my previous suspicions about this type of "marketing speke" have been blown away. It's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. They are also around the same price as a Mercian.
I'm now half way to losing 2st. (around 13kg) of "spare tyre", which will be a huge help when touring.


----------



## clownfishrob (28 Nov 2008)

How about custom fitting changing a few settings might make the bike you've got more efficient to ride without spending the big bucks. Saving energy by being more efficient is as good as saving weight.


----------



## asterix (28 Nov 2008)

This is the best light touring bike that can carry a full camping load..





[/IMG]

Reynolds 531, 60cm frame with o'size tubing for stiffness under load, space for up to 1.9inch mtb tyres and 'guards, mtb gears, all the bosses you need - I didn't use low riders this time as I prefer long descents without stuff on the front wheel. The descent of Tourmalet was magic.

Unladen it's a bit too stable for a lively ride but is not slow.


----------



## User482 (28 Nov 2008)

JackE said:


> My Van Nicholas Amazon (9.5kg approx) is around 3kg lighter than my previous Holdsworth 531 tourer. May not sound a lot but the Amazon feels a lot "sprightlier" than the old fella. Titanium aficianados use very technical language to describe this "feeling" and I must admit that my previous suspicions about this type of "marketing speke" have been blown away. It's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. They are also around the same price as a Mercian.
> I'm now half way to losing 2st. (around 13kg) of "spare tyre", which will be a huge help when touring.



What's the maximum load for an Amazon? My recollection was that they weren't suitable for full on camping touring.


----------



## con gibbens (28 Nov 2008)

*Best bike for cycle camping?*

Mercian build beautiful bikes, no question about it - but... Some years ago wife and I decided to replace our Raleigh Royal(e)'s and invest in some hand built machines . We bought specifically a custom Vincitore frame and a King of Mercia frame. We made it clear at the time that these were to be used as pack horses for cycle camping and specified all the braze ons for carriers etc. We usually carry something in the order of 25 kilos of gear each.

With these loads we experienced severe "shimmy" on downhill runs due to flexing of the frames and pulling a Bob trailer was even worse. We still have these bikes and they are brilliant for day rides and no doubt for credit card touring but for heavy load carrying ours are definately not suitable. Maybe Mercian have changed in the intervening years. 

Subsequently we invested in a pair of Orbit Romany Expedition bikes after considering Thorn and Roberts also. There were similarities and differences that caused us a great deal of thought but it was the unique assymetric rear triangles om the Orbits which permit undished rear wheels to be used which decided us because of very bad experiences earlier with spoke breakage on the Raleigh's. 

The Romany's are perfect for our style of touring which sometimes involves a certain amount of off road riding whilst loaded. They were expensive but were worth it. Sadly they are no longer made but I have no doubt that Thorn and Roberts would be equally suitable. If replacing our Orbits today we would also consider the Koga Miyata.

No doubt some will disagree with our choice while others may agree. It all comes down to personal selection in the end but the opinions of others can be useful.


----------



## peejay78 (28 Nov 2008)

i just splashed out on a fratello for light touring. it arrives january, it was an insurance replacement for a track bike, which i replaced in the meantime, so i finally get round to getting the light tourer i always wanted. 

i'll let you know in january how it handles.


----------



## Fab Foodie (28 Nov 2008)

peejay78 said:


> i just splashed out on a fratello for light touring. it arrives january, it was an insurance replacement for a track bike, which i replaced in the meantime, so i finally get round to getting the light tourer i always wanted.
> 
> i'll let you know in january how it handles.




Mmmmmm Condor Fratello... Mmmmmmmm
If I could own one bike for all my riding tha Fratello would be it. Prices OK too.


----------



## willem (29 Nov 2008)

If you want to lighten up, I think the first thing to do would be to reduce the weight of your gear. Other than for expedition touring in uninhabited parts of the world, 12-15 kilos should be enough. That is much less than what many carry, but it is possible - just look at ultralight backpackers and mountaineers. If you do this, you will not need front panniers, saving another 2-2.5 kilo on the panniers and rack themselves. It will cost some money, but not nearly as much as a high quality light weight bike. You will discover that riding suddenly becomes much more fun, and that your bike is so much more nimble.
Once you have done all this, there may be a good argument for getting a new bike, if only because your old bike may feel a bit too stiff and rigid (who knows). However, it is unlikely you will be able to save more than 2 kilo's, if at all. After all, you also want it to be reliable. Now that you have reduced your total travel weight, you may be able to fit lighter tyres on your existing bike. These will make a big difference, both because of their weight, and because of their lower rolling resistance. The latter is at least as important as weight.
If, after all this, you still want to spend money on a new bike, I would go for a custom frame with Rohloff hub. The custom frame will fit better, and shave off a little bit of weight (not much). The Rohloff will not save weight, but it is just so much better, you will never want to have anything else again. That at least was my experience. However, I would begin by taking less, and spending some money on lighter kit. You don't want to buy a new bike that is unnecessarily heavy and stiff because you are carrying the kitchen sink.
Willem


----------



## Tony (29 Nov 2008)

Read all this, and looked at my touring bike/load.
It is true, as said above, that once you load the bike its own weight becomes rather secondary. I replaced my rear wheel with a tandem-spoked set-up on a Hope hub, which is not light. I wanted strength. I'm a big bloke, and I generally lose about a stone and a half on a long tour, so I can always lighten the rider.
The kicker here is in what you tour for. Posts like the one above are fine, if all you want to do is cover miles.
I want to ride, see things, take photos, walk, birdwatch......


----------



## willem (29 Nov 2008)

Sorry, I don't want to create a misunderstanding: I ride for the fun, to enjoy the landscape, to visit old churches etc etc. I am no longer one of the younger ones, so if I want to continue going to interesting places, I need to leave all that heavy junk behind. You really don't need a 3 or 4 kilo tent (1.5-2 kilo will do), a bulky 2 kilo sleeping bag (1 kilo or less for a -5C bag), heavy cotton clothing, etc. The best luggage is the luggage you leave home.

My point was that trying to shave a few grams off your bike makes little sense, and risks mechanical failures. Lighten the load instead.

Willem


----------



## Deafie (30 Nov 2008)

You might find this thread interesting.
http://www.adventurecycling.org/forums/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=2750


----------



## peejay78 (30 Nov 2008)




----------



## JackE (2 Dec 2008)

User482 said:


> What's the maximum load for an Amazon? My recollection was that they weren't suitable for full on camping touring.



User482,
Sorry for delayed reply. I'm a light-weight cycle camper (max 12-14 kgs) and the Amazon handles it beautifully. I'm pretty sure it would easily take loads of 18-20 kgs. Ask them directly at: www.vannicholas.com. Because of the carbon forks it's only a "rear load" bike but that suits me fine as I'm trying to tour as light as possible. 
I find it a brilliant bike for weekend rides all year round (when I need an audax type bike) and then for short summer tours I just change from 28 to 32 Marathons and off I go. I find it a lot more comfortable to ride than my previous steel (631) Dawes Audax, it seems to absorb the shocks from the crappy road surfaces around here much better. I get less back ache as a result.


----------



## dmb (3 Dec 2008)

another vote for the van nic.


----------



## User482 (5 Dec 2008)

JackE said:


> User482,
> Sorry for delayed reply. I'm a light-weight cycle camper (max 12-14 kgs) and the Amazon handles it beautifully. I'm pretty sure it would easily take loads of 18-20 kgs. Ask them directly at: www.vannicholas.com. Because of the carbon forks it's only a "rear load" bike but that suits me fine as I'm trying to tour as light as possible.
> I find it a brilliant bike for weekend rides all year round (when I need an audax type bike) and then for short summer tours I just change from 28 to 32 Marathons and off I go. I find it a lot more comfortable to ride than my previous steel (631) Dawes Audax, it seems to absorb the shocks from the crappy road surfaces around here much better. I get less back ache as a result.



Thanks for the info. That load would be fine for me - I don't tour with more than 2 medium panniers! My current bike is a Thorn Audax, which is great, but it only takes a 28mm tyre which is a bit narrow for touring on potholed roads and cycle paths.

Having done LEJOG last year, I want to do the French coast to coast next - sounds like the Amazon would be ideal.


----------



## JackE (5 Dec 2008)

User482
The Amazon would be an excellent choice for the Channel to the Med (I'm planning to do it in 2010). Don't know where you live, but if you were to get Paul Hewitt (Lancs) to build it up for you then you'll be guaranteed a near perfect fit and his hand-built touring/audax wheels are very highly regarded.


----------



## Royalrider (6 Dec 2008)

I've just done that very thing JackE. My Amazon arrived from Paul Hewitt yesterday!!


----------



## JackE (7 Dec 2008)

Royalrider,
Don't want to start an Amazon "love-in" on here, but do let us know how you find it and your experience of the Paul Hewitt fitting service. Are you a light or a "loaded" tourer?


----------



## Fab Foodie (7 Dec 2008)

peejay78 said:


>



Oh god that *is* beautiful.


----------



## Royalrider (7 Dec 2008)

Will do. The weather's a bit grim up here near Derby but am itching to get out when the ice is off the roads. Don't want to detract from the OP but I went for the Amazon, not specifically for touring. I did lots of research for a bike capable of touring but also for getting off the tarmac onto sustrans type trails on long day rides. It seemed to fit my requirement/riding style better than an audax bike of the Yukon, Enigma Etape, Sabbath September etc all of which I considered. My touring is limited to 4 days in the Peak District last summer, C2C booked for May and a planned but not booked week in Suffolk with the wife next summer all 'light' B&B. The Paul Hewitt fitting was a valuable experience and not just for the 'fitting' which took about 90 mins with the 'chat'. It was a 180 mile round trip with an overnight stay in Manchester but worth it.
I had an idea that I wanted the bike to have Ultegra gears and Open Pro rims (I was setting it more for audax than touring) Paul discussed this and he advised, if I wanted Shimano, to go with 105 as I wasn't looking to save every ounce of weight and it gave a good gear ratio for the triple set up. He also advised to go for deore xt hubs, (better sealed apparently!) for track and trail, built into DRC STouring rims, slightly heavier, I tested them against Open Pro but more 'bomb proof'. I went for 28c Gator Skins.(my choice not his recommendation) Hope it will be a big improvement on my Raleigh Royal circa 1980.!


----------



## P.H (7 Dec 2008)

User482 said:


> it only takes a 28mm tyre which is a bit narrow for touring on potholed roads and cycle paths.



What size tyres can an Amazon take? They all seem to have 28 or 32mm and there doesn't seem to be clearance for much more. If you're not careful you'll end up spending a lot of money for not much difference.


----------



## peejay78 (7 Dec 2008)

Fab Foodie said:


> Oh god that *is* beautiful.



i have one on order, replacement for a stolen bob jackson, tescos gave me a voucher for halfrauds or condor. as much as i'd like 12 apollo MTBs, the lure of 1 condor just edged it. 

full ultegra GS, open pro wheelset laced to ultegra hubs. bosses for rear rack, curved seatstays, compact chainset. it can rest next to condor acciaio (lightweight steel racer).

very VERY excited. arrives mid-january. france beckons.


----------



## User169 (7 Dec 2008)

peejay78 said:


> i have one on order, replacement for a stolen bob jackson, tescos gave me a voucher for halfrauds or condor. as much as i'd like 12 apollo MTBs, the lure of 1 condor just edged it.
> 
> full ultegra GS, open pro wheelset laced to ultegra hubs. bosses for rear rack, curved seatstays, compact chainset. it can rest next to condor acciaio (lightweight steel racer).
> 
> very VERY excited. arrives mid-january. france beckons.



I got a Fratello about 2 years ago. A great audax machine, but I've never used it for touring. I've noticed a considerable amount of flex even with only two moderately loaded panniers, so it really would have to be lightweight touring I'd say. Really good looking bike though.


----------



## peejay78 (8 Dec 2008)

oh.


----------



## User482 (8 Dec 2008)

P.H said:


> What size tyres can an Amazon take? They all seem to have 28 or 32mm and there doesn't seem to be clearance for much more. If you're not careful you'll end up spending a lot of money for not much difference.



I had a look at one and I think it would probably take around 35mm. Certainly a lot more clearance than my bike anyway.


----------



## JackE (8 Dec 2008)

User482 said:


> I had a look at one and I think it would probably take around 35mm. Certainly a lot more clearance than my bike anyway.



I'm sure the Amazon would take 36-38mm cross tyres. If you believe the Van Nick "blurb", it's designed as an audax/touring/cross bike. I suppose it 
all depends on how well built your wheels are. I'm happy to stick with 32 Marathons for canal tow-paths and occasional rough tracks.


----------



## Royalrider (8 Dec 2008)

I think you'll find the Amazon will only take up to 32c with mud guards on. You may squeeze something larger without the guards but I would argue that if you needed larger than 32 nobbly is the Amazon the correct choice bike? The reason I went for the Amazon was to be able to use 28c for tow paths, cinder track etc. If I wanted to go on anything rougher I would use my mountain bike. Most of the other audax type bikes you may consider will only take up to 25c tyres which are just a little too 'light' for taking of tarmac.


----------



## User482 (9 Dec 2008)

Royalrider said:


> I think you'll find the Amazon will only take up to 32c with mud guards on. You may squeeze something larger without the guards but I would argue that if you needed larger than 32 nobbly is the Amazon the correct choice bike? The reason I went for the Amazon was to be able to use 28c for tow paths, cinder track etc. If I wanted to go on anything rougher I would use my mountain bike. Most of the other audax type bikes you may consider will only take up to 25c tyres which are just a little too 'light' for taking of tarmac.



The Amazon can be used for CX so I'm sure it's up to rougher use than tow paths. But I'll check out the clearance with 'guards, so thanks for the tip.


----------



## GrahamG (11 Dec 2008)

peejay78 said:


> oh.



I have one of these you can borrow: :?:







http://www.carryfreedom.com/Y-Frame.html


----------



## Paul_Smith SRCC (12 Dec 2008)

Royalrider said:


> I think you'll find the Amazon will only take up to 32c with mud guards on. You may squeeze something larger without the guards but I would argue that if you needed larger than 32 nobbly is the Amazon the correct choice bike? The reason I went for the Amazon was to be able to use 28c for tow paths, cinder track etc. If I wanted to go on anything rougher I would use my mountain bike. Most of the other audax type bikes you may consider will only take up to 25c tyres which are just a little too 'light' for taking of tarmac.


For cinder tracks/tow path you will probably find 32c may well be a better choice anyway, the Amazon has clearance to allow for this on that surface, in other words it should not clog up.

The Amazon has a slightly faster geometry than your Raleigh Royal, the latter were 72 seat/72 head where as Amazon are 73/71 (using 23 ½” or 58cm as a comparison), so it will feel slightly more responsive to your effort

Paul_Smith


----------



## Fab Foodie (12 Dec 2008)

peejay78 said:


> i have one on order, replacement for a stolen bob jackson, tescos gave me a voucher for halfrauds or condor. as much as i'd like 12 apollo MTBs, the lure of 1 condor just edged it.
> 
> full ultegra GS, open pro wheelset laced to ultegra hubs. bosses for rear rack, curved seatstays, compact chainset. it can rest next to condor acciaio (lightweight steel racer).
> 
> very VERY excited. arrives mid-january. france beckons.



I don't know what it is about the Fratello, but there is something just "right" about it. As an all-rounder it seems the business, take the guards off and whack-on Tribars for the summer club season and awaaaayy.
I wish it had been around when I bought my Giant.
I'd have to have a triple thpugh, can't abide compacts.


----------



## JackE (22 Dec 2008)

*touring*

Royal Rider,
Final question, how much did your Amazon cost (inc fitting)?


----------



## Royalrider (24 Dec 2008)

My total cost was £1863.90. You need to take into account how you have it specced and what additional things you include. I went for 105 groupset, Fizik Arione saddle, SKS guards. 2 elite bottle holders,Tektro CR 720 cantis, and a pair of handbuilt wheels on STouring rims. within the price. This included fitting which you would get free with any purchase,£50.00 if you don't buy. If I had just bought the frame, 60cm. it would have been £880. Hope this helps.


----------



## Paul_Smith SRCC (24 Dec 2008)

JackE said:


> Royal Rider,
> Final question, how much did your Amazon cost (inc fitting)?


It is quite straight forward to obtain an up to date price for Van Nicholas bikes, the full specification and range available can be seen on the www.vannicholas.com website, although note the prices will be in Euros ex VAT, you will need convert to Sterling (see www.travelex.co.uk for current exchange rate) and then add 15% VAT

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk


----------



## New Horizon (24 Dec 2008)

Or 19% VAT if ordering direct from them, which I would not advise, given my recent experience of doing so, which, frankly, became a nightmare on delivery and ruined what should have been a once in a lifetime purchase.


----------



## Paul_Smith SRCC (24 Dec 2008)

New Horizon said:


> Or 19% VAT if ordering direct from them, which I would not advise, given my recent experience of doing so, which, frankly, became a nightmare on delivery and ruined what should have been a once in a lifetime purchase.


Most of their UK dealers will also pay the carriage costs from Van Nicholas into the UK, that along with the lower VAT rate means it should be cheaper to buy it here in the UK than it is to buy from Van Nicholas direct.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk


----------

