# Cleats getting binned, back to flats!



## Brandane (8 Aug 2010)

I only started using cleats last November and to be honest I was never 100% convinced that they were right for me. I didn't like having my foot welded to one specific position on the pedal no matter whether I was climbing, coasting, spinning or grinding. To me, not being an expert on these matters, I have always had a slightly different foot position depending on the task in hand!

I began to get slight cramps in my feet despite trying different cleat positions. Then I had trouble with my left knee which may or may not have been related to saddle height and/or cleat positioning.

The final nail in the coffin for my cleats was a few days ago I had my first "clipless moment" when I had an off. I reckon if I hadn't been wearing cleats I would have been able to regain my balance and not fallen, but as it was I took a tumble and to cut a long story short was very lucky to avoid serious injury.

So I will happily forsake a questionable (at my level anyway) increase in pedaling efficiency for the comfort and safety of flats and normal shoes!!

Feel free to advise me that this is the wrong decision; or surely there are others out there who agree? I just think that at my level, as a casual cyclist who does it for recreation and hopefully an increase in fitness, they are a bit OTT?

PS... I did persevere with them for 9 months/2200 miles.


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## iAmiAdam (8 Aug 2010)

Bad to hear, my toe clips are indeed helping me, and I find clipless is a common thing among cyclists of any capability. I tried cycling without my toe clips the other day, and it felt totally unsafe.

I'll take the equipment you have spare off your hands if you're going to bin it


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## ianrauk (8 Aug 2010)

If you don't get on with them then don't use them. Go with what ever you feel comfortable with.
I have a friends who felt the same as you. He tried using cleats but couldn't get on with them and went back to flats.
And if memory serves me correct, MacB from this very parish feels the same.


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## HLaB (8 Aug 2010)

Sorry to hear it isnt working out for you Brandane, I personally would persevere making sure your cleats are set up right but its your choice. To me the efficiency thing doesn't matter much but I actually find clipless safer; I feel more connected to the bike and can handle it better and my foot doesn't slip off in the wet and the cranks do a 180 ouch; my shins would testify to not liking the old flat pedals.


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## StuAff (8 Aug 2010)

MacB is indeed dubious about the merits of SPDs, he'd tried them, gone back to flats, tried them again I think..
As Ian says- if you don't feel comfortable going clipless, don't. That said, the problems you experienced with cramps etc would probably be sorted out by a bike fit and/or getting your cleat position sorted out (as HLaB has noted whilst I was first typing this!). When I first got SPDs, I did have problems clipping in and out (though no moments, fortunately)- my DIY cleat positioning was a bit out, and a visit to my LBS sorted that out. If you stick with flats, a bike fit's still a good idea. The one time I've had a knee twinge, it was down to saddle height.


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Aug 2010)

It really doesn't matter and is down to what ever suits you. I have clipless on my race bikes and flats on the singlespeed and MTB and that's the set up that suits me according to the riding style and the bike in question. As ianrauk says MacB went back to 'flats' but then again he likes butterfly bars so is obviously 'different'. 

Stick to what you like brandane, it's your choice, all riders are not the same.


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## snorri (8 Aug 2010)

Brandane said:


> So I will happily forsake a questionable (at my level anyway) increase in pedaling efficiency for the comfort and safety of flats and normal shoes!!
> Feel free to advise me that this is the wrong decision; or surely there are others out there who agree? I just think that at my level, as a casual cyclist who does it for recreation and hopefully an increase in fitness, they are a bit OTT?


You are not alone Brandane  
I have never tried cleats, just have not been sufficiently convinced to make the change. I agree with you regarding the ability to move your feet around on the pedals, and the use of normal shoes.
Just do your own thing and enjoy it.


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## jpembroke (8 Aug 2010)

suffered terrible knee pain when I got my first road bike. It was a case of lowering the saddle height by a few mms and setting the cleats so my toes didn't point inwards (that's how they wanted to point but caused IT band to flare up). Since I got the setup right I've had no recurrence, and that's 10 years now.


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## GlasgowGaryH (8 Aug 2010)

I given up using clipless pedals and gone back to using platform pedals. Used them for sometime now and once foot is planted on pedal it seems to hold very well and never slips. Ok they might weigh a bit more but I Dont have to remember to unclip either in an emergency or when coming to a stop.


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## PK99 (8 Aug 2010)

Brandane said:


> I only started using cleats last November
> 
> Snip
> 
> PS... I did persevere with them for 9 months/2200 miles.



did you fit them yourself?
Did you have a bike fit at the same time?

I was sceptical before switching to SPD's but would now never go back- but i did have them properly fitted by my LBS to ensure cleat positioning matched up with my natural foot angles


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## HJ (8 Aug 2010)

Clipless isn't compulsory and it isn't for everyone. I use Shimano A530 pedals so that I have a choice of clipless or flat, and after having a bad clipless moment last year (cracked two ribs) I have cleated in less and less. I wouldn't put down any one who has tried riding clipless and decided that it not for them...


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## kewb (8 Aug 2010)

i switch between platforms and spd`s and both have seperate uses i had spd`s on mtb but off track they were an accident waiting to happen 

and on rough tracks they werent to hot either as i had to think whether to go off road or not ,thats the thing with clipless pedals you always need to think a step ahead and accidents have a nasty habbit  of suprising you 

i  agree with you op spd`s and other clipless are slightly dangerous but the advantages , for me for now , outweigh the dis advantages .




ps one thing i do like about spd is you dont get pedals whacking your shins , not nice with mtb platforms that are metal with teeth like a bear trap .


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## scott s10 (8 Aug 2010)

was the cleat below the ball of your foot???


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## sarahpink (8 Aug 2010)

as everyone else has said go with whatever you are comfortable with. I have recently been an convert to spds and they have been great couldn't be without them. they did take me a whil to get used but now find un clipping as natural as braking.


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## Muddyfox (8 Aug 2010)

I think after 2200 miles you have given it a good shot and if you dont get on with them then use whatever suits and enjoy your cycling 

I've got the dual sided pedals on my tourer but i do clip in 99% of the time but i have'nt been brave enough to put SPD's on my Moutain Bike 

Simon


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## Brandane (8 Aug 2010)

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

To answer a few general points... I fitted the cleats myself and haven't had a professional fitting other than the cursory seat height check done when I bought the bike. But I have experimented with different set-ups, and taken advice from this site and Sheldon Brown.

My "off" didn't come as a result of forgetting to unclip, but rather from not being able to unclip after my front wheel getting caught in a drainage channel at the side of a path. A millisecond of notice that I was going down wasn't enough! But I still reckon I could have counterbalanced, or at least softened the fall, if my feet hadn't been clipped into the pedals.

My pedals are double sided Shimano jobs (not the A-530) so will not be binning them in the literal sense. Never say never, as they say; but for now I will be sticking with the flat side of the pedal and wearing normal trainers for cycling .


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## MacB (8 Aug 2010)

Mwaaahaaaahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

another returns to the light, starting to feel a bit like the helmet debates this one  

I was round at relatives for Sunday dinner today, Jane took the boys in the car and I cycled over, it's only about 4 miles each way. Had been scuffing around in some chino shorts, polo shirt and docksiders. Preparation for the bike ride involved putting mobile in the saddle pack and my shades on. I'm even tough enough to skip the mitts for these little rides now  Oh, single speed as well, no faff with gears or anything.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (8 Aug 2010)

Surprising topic this weekend, since I had a ride on the clip-in platforms on Saturday - it being the football season I needed to ride to the train station and this season, all 3 bikes are clipless so I took the road bike with the clip-in platforms.

I hated it...I couldn't wait to get off the bike!

OK, ther platforms are not really the same as a flat pedal, narrower, longer and slipperier but still....

I don't have the confidence to stand on the pedals anymore if I'm not clipped in. Weird as all in all I've cycled 1000's more miles on flats or flats w toeclips then clipless but as soon as I finally went clipless they seemed the most natural things in the world

But, that is just me and I see no sense in imposing what is right for me, onto anyone else...do what feels right for yourself


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## aoj (9 Aug 2010)

Hi HJ

I'm with you on this one I had much the same experience as you.

I now use DMR V8 pedals, they can be a bit lethal if you catch you shins on them though. 

Not being clipped in has allowed me to get my foot down and prevent a fall on a few occasions now.


oaj


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## XmisterIS (9 Aug 2010)

Brandane said:


> Thanks for all the replies and advice.
> 
> To answer a few general points... I fitted the cleats myself and haven't had a professional fitting other than the cursory seat height check done when I bought the bike. But I have experimented with different set-ups, and taken advice from this site and Sheldon Brown.
> 
> ...



Just a few thoughts of mine - are your clips and cleats multi-directional? That helps a lot! Also, I ride with my clips very loose - it allows the foot to rotate a lot and if the worse comes to the worst, a sharp pull of the foot in any direction will result in an unclip! I would have them just tight enough to stop the cleat from falling out of the clip. You might get on with them better like that.


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## TheBoyBilly (9 Aug 2010)

I put Shimano M545s on my Langster a fortnight ago, to go with my Spesh Tahoe shoes. It was only this morning that I had a little iffy momen twhen I slowed down ready to stop at a kerb but the front wheel dipped into a slight groove in the gutter that put me out of sync. Nearly, very nearly.....but I just managed to unclip in time. So, with that in mind, I have come to the conclusion that I naturally went to unclip without thinking and saved an embarrassing tumble, so it is now second-nature to do so even after this short time. I love my SPDs - so much so that I intend to fit the same to my MTB even though I feel very secure on the Wellgo flats that are on it at the moment. I just feel more 'at one' with the bike with clipless pedals. I would, however, go back to flats before I ever put cages & straps back on the Langster.

Bill


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## Willo (9 Aug 2010)

XmisterIS said:


> Just a few thoughts of mine - are your clips and cleats multi-directional? That helps a lot! Also, I ride with my clips very loose - it allows the foot to rotate a lot and if the worse comes to the worst, a sharp pull of the foot in any direction will result in an unclip! I would have them just tight enough to stop the cleat from falling out of the clip. You might get on with them better like that.



Will second that for the multi-direction cleats, made a big difference for me; provided some 'float' to move my feet on long riders and being much easier to clip out (and yet to pull out by mistake). Took me yonks to feel confident in clipless but like them now. However, as others have said, no point in using them if it means you don't enjoy your cycling.


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## Spinney (9 Aug 2010)

I find that I _can _move my feet a bit with my SPDs (I guess they must be multi-directional?)

I also occasionally get foot pains on a long ride, and with the SPDs I can wriggle my feet around inside the shoes a bit to help it to go away - not possible on flats. I also wouldn;t have the confidence to change gear while standing on the pedals if I wasn't clipped in.

Having said all that, my pedals are dual (i.e. flat one side) and when I did the coast to coast recently I used the flat side for the long downhill into Consett on gravel paths - didn't have the confidence that I would get my foot clear if the bike skidded (it was also _very_ windy).

Not trying to persuade you - what feels right for you is what counts - just saying...


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## DHA (9 Aug 2010)

My cleat history is checkered. About 4 years ago a friend who was into his cycling suggested some Crank Brothers Egg Beaters for my MTB. They were impossible to use with shoes so it was cleats all the way. On my second ride with them I fell at a junction when I was unable to get my foot out quick enough, more emarrased than real injuries. The next ride I did take a fall, into stinging nettles - but I really hurt my left ankle. Ligaments took about 6 months to properly heal up. The egg beaters were removed straight away and they are still in my shed.

Fast forward to today, I am about to get back into cycling (illness meant cycling etc was a no-no for 2 years) and wanted to try cleats again. After much research (I wear MTB rather than road shoes through choice) I came upon the Shimano M545 which is a MTB pedal but I run it on my road bike for the aforementioned shoe reasons. The pedals came at around 1/4 of their tightness for the cleats and were reasonably difficult for a newbie to remove his foot.

I only fitted the left one, standard pedal on the right for the moment, so I can train my left foot to be able to remove itself easily. I loosened the spring right back to its easiest setting before today's ride and it has made a massive difference. I now wonder if I am actually clipped in if I don't hear that "click" when I put my foot down? But release is a breeze. I had previously thought I would never go back to cleats following my ankle issue but thought I would give it one last try. Maybe this could be an option for you?

I am probably going to wipe out on my next ride having said all this!


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## Brandane (9 Aug 2010)

A lot of good and helpful suggestions have come out of this; thanks to all who replied.
I like the idea of slackening the clips on the pedal. I had them wound up fairly tight as there was an annoying creaking noise coming from them (or more likely the shoes) when slack. No idea why, but it went away with the clips tightened. 

I think I will stick to flats at least until my knee problem has cleared up as I only intend to do some easy cycling until then anyway. If I find that for whatever reason I am missing the cleats (although right now I can't think why I would!) then I might give them another go.


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## Davidc (9 Aug 2010)

Go with what's comfortable.

I tried SPD cleats. Hated them and went back to flat pedals and traditional toe clips.

You are not alone.


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## HLaB (9 Aug 2010)

It might have just been that the float which most people need to avoid knee problem was causing some to rub but when you tightened up the cleat too much you restricted the movement. Perhaps if you try again loose, add grease. My last creaking noise came from a thin layer of rust just below the countersink of the cleat bolt. The cleat, bolt and pedal looked clean so I dismissed that  Good Luck!


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## alecstilleyedye (9 Aug 2010)

i've never really got on with spd. however, i swear by look delta cleats with 9° of float. not so handy to walk in, but it's a price i'm prepared to pay. i have that on two of my road bikes.

the only reason i have flat pedals on the mtb is that running look delta would be lunacy off-road, and i have toe clips on my vintage claud, for sartorial reasons…


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## cyberknight (10 Aug 2010)

PK99 said:


> did you fit them yourself?
> Did you have a bike fit at the same time?
> 
> I was sceptical before switching to SPD's but would now never go back- but i did have them properly fitted by my LBS to ensure cleat positioning matched up with my natural foot angles



+1
took me ages to get the right set up with my spds using trial and error.

At the end of the day go with what makes you feel comfortable and safe, i started back into cycling using a toe clip,basically a small clip with no strap so you could get your foot out easily but gain a little bit of attatchment to the pedals.


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## Canardly (12 Aug 2010)

I was black and blue due to cleats early on but have stuck with em and now would not be without really. Same issues regarding bit of knee pain, float and so on.


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## Banjo (12 Aug 2010)

I rode with SPDs for a couple of months then went back to flat pedals after a few "moments" now back using SPDs and doing ok touchwood.

I dont think theres a massive performance boost from being clipped in so do whatevewr your happy with.


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## Tyres (12 Aug 2010)

I'm in a bit of a dilemma too with spd. I'm currently recovering from a muscle strain in the quads. However, before that happened I was looking to move from flats to spd in a hope that they would assist with achieving a better pedal stroke (not that I know there's anything wrong with it). But reading all about knee injuries just puts me right off going clipless.


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## the_mikey (17 Aug 2010)

Tyres said:


> I'm in a bit of a dilemma too with spd. I'm currently recovering from a muscle strain in the quads. However, before that happened I was looking to move from flats to spd in a hope that they would assist with achieving a better pedal stroke (not that I know there's anything wrong with it). But reading all about knee injuries just puts me right off going clipless.



I've already lost a tooth from a fall, and have had too many issues with spd (and with even toe clips after I abandoned spd) that I'm returning to flats. I think if I was riding on the road and not expecting to stop, it would be more bearable, but from leaving the home, I need to stop at junctions, crossings and a whole host of unpredictable hazards that seem to make it not much fun to go anywhere, I've gone back to flat pedals and it's easy, and the anxiety has gone. No more panics, falls or anything, except an occasional whack to the shin which is much more bearable than an emergency dentist appointment!

The real problem is the increasing anxiety that comes with using them, given the bad time I've had with them so far, I've worked myself up to panic level with them, so it undermines my confidence to even ride anywhere with them.


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## kewb (19 Aug 2010)

my experiences with clipless has taught me that some people might be  setting  the clip to tight making clipping out a bit difficult ,

mine are always very loose making clipping out easy , this doesnt mean i can escape the clip in any way during normal riding btw ,

my friend has his much tighter than mine and its an effort to stamp in compared to mine he says he doesnt want to slip out something ive never done in clippless pedals .

maybe i am wrong but setting them this way suits me , theres still no way of preventing un forseen stoppages and getting that foot on the ground quickly enough .


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## JNR (19 Aug 2010)

kewb said:


> my experiences with clipless has taught me that some people might be setting the clip to tight making clipping out a bit difficult ,
> 
> mine are always very loose making clipping out easy , this doesnt mean i can escape the clip in any way during normal riding btw ,
> 
> ...



I've got mine set to the easiest too, and I haven't had any problems. I've got the SPD-SL with the yellow cleat, I believe the red ones are different but I'm happy with mine. I'm still crap at putting my first foot in though!

I've taken to clipping out just in case after some near misses, just being aware and all that.


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## kewb (22 Aug 2010)

JNR said:


> I've got mine set to the easiest too, and I haven't had any problems. I've got the SPD-SL with the yellow cleat, I believe the red ones are different but I'm happy with mine. I'm still crap at putting my first foot in though!
> 
> I've taken to clipping out just in case after some near misses, just being aware and all that.






its so much easier for me and its never resulted in me un clipping by accident even when im really pushing on say a hill ,


but i can almost slip out with a slight twist when i want to ,

dont know why some prefer them so tight .


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## brokenbetty (22 Aug 2010)

I like toe clips - all the joy of standard shoes but a bit more connection when it's wet.

I dare say clipless would be better in some ways but I'm not sure they are ways I care about - I haven't found the problem that clipless is meant to solve.


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## ManiaMuse (22 Aug 2010)

kewb said:


> its so much easier for me and its never resulted in me un clipping by accident even when im really pushing on say a hill ,
> 
> 
> but i can almost slip out with a slight twist when i want to ,
> ...



I've been gradually tightening my SPDs after having them very loose when I was getting used to them. I prefer them tighter because I always get a decent 'click'. When they were looser there were some times when they felt a bit spongy and I wasn't quite sure if you were in/out or not. 

I haven't noticed much difference in how quickly I can unclip, in fact I think I can unclip slightly quicker with them tighter since I make more of a determined twist.

Haven't had a clipless moment or fallen off yet. Haven't had to do a proper serious emergency stop so far but even then at most speeds I'm pretty sure I would be able to unclip and get my foot out far quicker than the time it takes to stop.

I found it quite surprising how quickly I got used to them, I find it really weird riding flats or toeclips now. The most important thing I learnt was that you need to be a bit more aware coming up to junctions or in traffic when you might need to unclip.


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## e-rider (22 Aug 2010)

I got used to clipless in about 15 minutes!

You say that you experiments with different cleat positions - that's probably your biggest mistake - there is pretty much a very very small window for the 'correct' position for any one persons physiology and riding style. So if you tried 20+ positions, at most only one would be correct and comfortable! Perhaps you never found the right position? You also need to adjust the saddle accordingly too. 

For me, riding with cleats is a bit of a no brainer, but I accept that not everyone is the same. 9 months is a pretty good attempt.


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## MontyVeda (22 Aug 2010)

when i had a roadbike with dropped bars in th'eighties I had toeclips and slipping my feet in and out of them was 2nd nature. Then I got a mountain bike with flat pedals, and eventually (after a year or so) put some toe clips on... and took them off a week later.


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## kewb (22 Aug 2010)

brokenbetty said:


> I like toe clips - all the joy of standard shoes but a bit more connection when it's wet.
> 
> I dare say clipless would be better in some ways but I'm not sure they are ways I care about - I haven't found the problem that clipless is meant to solve.






mtb spd shoes are designed to walk in and have better grip and tread than some trainers , and no clip clop sound when you walk either 


the soles firm but slightly curved so you can take actual steps .


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## crumpetman (24 Aug 2010)

Is there a preferred flat pedal for use with road bikes? Most of the flat pedals I am looking at online are meant for MTB or BMX and while they would probably be fine on the road some of them look a bit heavy/large.


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## worcester dan (24 Aug 2010)

another one here who just did not get on with clipless, tried for over a year and just about to change back to flats.


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## HLaB (24 Aug 2010)

crumpetman said:


> Is there a preferred flat pedal for use with road bikes? Most of the flat pedals I am looking at online are meant for MTB or BMX and while they would probably be fine on the road some of them look a bit heavy/large.



I don't know what brand they are but they're are lighter flat pedals on the market, I had a Titanium pair, eventually I fitted toe clips to them. They did make a bit of a mess of my shins though when my foot slipped of in the wet  so eventually I changed to clipless.

Edit: MKS do pairs of Flat Road Pedals


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## kewb (24 Aug 2010)

light platform pedal here -

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/prod...ategory=640&find_description=&find_part_desc=

my mtb has similar looking ones no identifying marks on them though , alloy with black rims that are toothed for grip .

very much like these -

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/14143/BBB-Mount---Go-Pedals.html




great grip but nasty to whack your shins with (ive bruises to prove it )


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