# First ebike - some advice please



## Paulq (30 May 2016)

I spend most of my weekends in the Lakes these days and my advancing age and previous rugby injuries to neck and knee mean that I really struggle on the hills these days. I have been looking at the electric bikes and rode one for the first time this weekend. I have pretty much decided to get one but have a few questions if anyone can help:

1 - I have pretty much narrowed it down to a Haibike Hard seven 9Yamaha) , Haibike Xduro RC Cross (Bosch) or Cube Touring 500 (Bosch). 

I don't really know much about Haibike but they do seem very popular - are they of reasonable quality?

2 - The one I was most comfortable on was actually the Hard Seven which is a mountain bike. If I went this route I'd stick some slick tyres on it but as most of my riding would be done on tarmac/light trails I wonder if this is a great option or if I'd be better with something more 'Hybrid like' with 700c as per the other two options listed above?

3 - Dealers seem to really advocate the Bosch system over the Yamaha but the cost difference is around 600 pounds - are they really that much better and is the Yamaha motor reliable enough?

4 - I plan to be out most days riding and wonder if anyone knows how 'charger friendly' pubs and cafes are in letting you plug in for a while to make sure you have enough juice to get back home?

5 - Is there anything else I should be looking at and making sure I consider when choosing one?

6 - Are there portable chargers you can buy and take with you when you are out and about?

Thanks all.


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## Pale Rider (30 May 2016)

Haibike is a respected German bike maker who also make push bikes, but increasingly concentrate on ebikes.

I think they are now owned by one of the Dutch conglomerates, so it's a matter of branding as much as anything else.

The Bosch drive has been around longer than the Yamaha one, but no significant reports of reliability problems with either.

I own two Bosch ebikes, I like both and both have been reliable, but I've tried a couple of Yamaha bikes and would be happy to own one.

The rest of a crank drive ebike is standard bike bits by Shimano and the like.

Most of the stuff on Haibikes and Cubes is medium/good quality.

Choice of bike type is the same as a push bike.

A mountain bike on slickish tyres will ride about the same as a trekking/hybrid bike.

The latter would come with stuff like mudguards, a carrier, lights and so on.

But all of that can be retro-fitted to a mountain bike, as I'm sure you know.

Charging in cafes is not ideal for a couple of reasons.

There's a few volts and amps to deal with, so the charger is quite lumpy, a lump which you would have to carry.

Putting any useful charge into the battery takes a while, so you would have to sit around for a couple of hours.

Probably simpler to carry a spare battery.

One advantage of some Bosch bikes is they come with a bigger capacity battery than Yamaha ones.


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## Paulq (31 May 2016)

Thanks. I looked at the respective weights today and there's nothing in the weight between the Mountain bike and the cross. Given that the MB 'should' be ok on the road with the right tyres then that may be the best option as it gives complete versatility.

A Haibike wouldn't be my preference but I am struggling to get anything else in stock to be honest.

The only decision is Bosch vs Yamaha with the former being a £600 premium that nobody seems to be able to explain.


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## Pale Rider (31 May 2016)

Paulq said:


> Thanks. I looked at the respective weights today and there's nothing in the weight between the Mountain bike and the cross. Given that the MB 'should' be ok on the road with the right tyres then that may be the best option as it gives complete versatility.
> 
> A Haibike wouldn't be my preference but I am struggling to get anything else in stock to be honest.
> 
> The only decision is Bosch vs Yamaha with the former being a £600 premium that nobody seems to be able to explain.



The Bosch motor has been around since about 2010, there were earlier crank drives, but the Bosch was a big step forward in many respects and it has been market leader ever since.

Yamaha - and Shimano's latest Steps - are very similar, but were released several years later.

I suspect both companies realised their system would have to be cheaper to gain any significant market share.

Having said that, I'm surprised the difference in your case is £600, it's usually closer to half that.

I take it you've checked the bikes are otherwise the same or similar, both 2016, both with the same size battery, etc.


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## Paulq (31 May 2016)

Yes they are. For example the Haibike Hardseven SDuro is around £1850 whereas the XDuro is £2400. The only difference is the motor.


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## Pale Rider (31 May 2016)

If you don't fancy a Haibike but still want Bosch, how about a Scott?

This retailer is known to be reliable, so if he says there is stock, you can believe it.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Hard-Tail-eBikes


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## ufkacbln (1 Jun 2016)

Generally, one of the issues is repairs and maintenance.

Electrics like anything else have an issue with reliability, and you may find that it is difficult to get a repair done or replacement parts

In your case if you are buying from an established dealer then this should be fine, but otherwise it is worth seeing which system is best suported locally


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## Paulq (1 Jun 2016)

Another issue I have is transporting them. Putting them on roof bars seems to be touch and go because of the weight limit of the cycle carriers - generally around 20kg whereby both the bikes alone are around 21kg. Plus there's the issue of lifting them.

I am looking at the possibility of using a carrier which secures the bikes front forks with the front wheel removed. I would imagine that removing batteries and front wheel will reduce overall weight by a few kg. Batteries are around 3kg - not sure how much a 26" MTB wheel would weigh?

Further option is a tow bar carrier but with a combined weight of nearly 50kg I am not sure that this wouldn't exceed the nose weight limit for my car?

Any advice on how to best transport them around?


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## Helenbells (1 Jun 2016)

We have a Ford Galaxy. Our two lifecycle sports ebikes fit in the car, upright with the back two seats and middle seat removed. We secure them upright with stretches onto the headrests of the side seats of the middle row. 
I would not want to lift them above chest height, though.
Very different from our Rory O'Brien lightweight road bikes!


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## Paulq (1 Jun 2016)

[QUOTE 4304635, member: 259"]Use a towbar carrier.[/QUOTE]

As I said in my post. There is an issue with the combined weight of the bikes and the nose weight of my car. Not that simple.


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## Paulq (1 Jun 2016)

Helenbells said:


> We have a Ford Galaxy. Our two lifecycle sports ebikes fit in the car, upright with the back two seats and middle seat removed. We secure them upright with stretches onto the headrests of the side seats of the middle row.
> I would not want to lift them above chest height, though.
> Very different from our Rory O'Brien lightweight road bikes!



That's very much my nuclear option in changing my car to an SUV type but last resort. Do you think they are liftable on to the roof with the front wheels and batteries removed?


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## Paulq (1 Jun 2016)

[QUOTE 4304707, member: 259"]Sorry, without wanting to sound daft, I would have thought that a towbar carrier would solve any weight problems, but perhaps I've misunderstood.[/QUOTE]

That's ok. I have a small ish car and the manufacturers are unsure if the combined weight of bikes, carrier et al on the back of my car would actually render it unsafe. Apparently there is a limit of weight you can put on the back and this is determined by the nose weight of the car.


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## Klassikbike (3 Jun 2016)

Both the Bosch and the Yamaha system are very good.
In the market they actually have a very simillar pricepoint.
Differences in Price could be because of the components on the bike, (Wheels, Fork, Saddle, Brake...)


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## Andy_R (10 Aug 2016)

Paulq said:


> That's ok. I have a small ish car and the manufacturers are unsure if the combined weight of bikes, carrier et al on the back of my car would actually render it unsafe. Apparently there is a limit of weight you can put on the back and this is determined by the nose weight of the car.


TBH, the weight of bikes, carrier, etc is going to be less than that of an average 7yr old...just to give you some perspective....


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## Pale Rider (11 Aug 2016)

Andy_R said:


> TBH, the weight of bikes, carrier, etc is going to be less than that of an average 7yr old...just to give you some perspective....



Most 'nose weights' for car tow balls are 50kg plus, but there are some smaller cars which are in the low 30s.

A tow ball bike rack will be around 15kg, add an ebike - 20kg+ - and you could easily be close to the limit.

As far as I can gather, the nose weight only applies to the tow ball, so a tailgate clip-on bike rack can carry whatever it's rated for.

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/12354614/noseweights-mo__2_.pdf


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