# New lane arrangement on Broad Street, Salford



## MrHappyCyclist (8 Jul 2011)

I've been looking forward to the new bus lane being finished in the changes to Broad Street and Chapel Street. Now they've done the lane markings on the approach, I can hardly believe how crap it is for cyclists:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50kfyDw4Ik[/media]


The next thing to try is taking primary position in the outside lane from the first set of lights there, but I'm sure we can expect some road rage from the motons.

The reason for this awful arrangement is that the highest priority is to get motor vehicles down the the road to the left as fast as possible. Another triumph for urban planning in the stupid car-centric country we call home.


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## Jezston (9 Jul 2011)

Got a streetview link to what it was like before?

I certainly wouldn't want to cross two lanes of traffic moving at those speeds every day.

Be interesting to see what happens when a bus ploughs across.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (9 Jul 2011)

i know that road well, and it's a horrible place to be on a bike, the motons feast on other motons. i agree the new layout is scary and i think it's only time before, either someone pulls out from the uni and forces a cyclist into the fast moving lane of motons, or a moton left hooks a cyclist trying to get down the exit lane at full speed.


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## MrHappyCyclist (9 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Got a streetview link to what it was like before?
> 
> I certainly wouldn't want to cross two lanes of traffic moving at those speeds every day.
> 
> Be interesting to see what happens when a bus ploughs across.



As soon as I get time, I'll post a video of how it was before.

(Using my phone to post at the moment.)


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## MrHappyCyclist (11 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Got a streetview link to what it was like before?


I had a look back at my videos and they started the roadworks here before I got my camera, so here is a Google Streetview link as you requested. It wasn't perfect, but was a lot better than now.

The main reason for the difference, though, is that the main traffic flow was previously straight-ahead, but has now been diverted to the route that goes to the left.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to include the link to Streetview. It's in the now.


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## MrHappyCyclist (11 Jul 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> i know that road well, and it's a horrible place to be on a bike, the motons feast on other motons. i agree the new layout is scary and i think it's only time before, either someone pulls out from the uni and forces a cyclist into the fast moving lane of motons, or a moton left hooks a cyclist trying to get down the exit lane at full speed.


I'm intending to post a video once they've finished it all. There was a real opportunity here to do something that would be good for cyclists as well as all others, but the way it is shaping up I think they have made a lot of mistakes. Coming in the opposite direction, they have put a narrow cycle lane on the inside of a bus lane, so the buses all pass far too close. It's just so frustrating considering how much of our money must have been spent on this.


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## Richard Mann (11 Jul 2011)

The location is by Salford Crescent Station:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.486121,-2.277029&spn=0.001864,0.004678&t=h&z=18

There's a bit more wrong with that road than could be put right with lane-markings, methinks.

(An engineering solution would be a track off the underpass road back up to the A6, preferably not dipping down too much, etc)


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## davefb (11 Jul 2011)

its been moronic ... 

its the end of a very major route , the a580 which did go into that part of salford and tail off by splitting across a few major roads.

but they decided to kill it and direct traffic away earlier onto the already busy regent road , which assumes you want to be that side of town instead of the salford end..

so , instead of 2 lanes + bus lane, its now 1 lane + bus lane ( well that was my understanding).... so that businesses will come back apparently..

its also cycling home that way that forced me back into the car last year , when they were doing the road works, they removed the bus/cycle lane, so you were merged into a lot of unhappy motons.. ( unhappy due to stupid delays)...

its moronic, because they should have upgraded the alternate routes first, but they didnt' , they choked the only two lane entry to the whole of manchester from the north first..... the rest are one lane + bus lane.. (and regent road is the end of a motorway, so is hardly quiet itself AND its from the west, not the north!)

all that money, and its crap for the buses, crap for the motons and crap for the cyclists.... 


suppose i'm glad i dont commute into manchester any more!


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## davefb (11 Jul 2011)

hehe, and they removed that pedestrian bridge from your video mrhappycyclist!!!


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Jul 2011)

davefb said:


> hehe, and they removed that pedestrian bridge from your video mrhappycyclist!!!


Blimey, when did that disappear? I never noticed it was gone!


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Jul 2011)

davefb said:


> its been moronic ...
> its the end of a very major route , the a580 which did go into that part of salford and tail off by splitting across a few major roads.


I do think that is a slight misrepresentation. The route as it stood before actually brought traffic together from the A580 (dual carriageway), the M61 (motorway), the A666 (trunk road), the A6 (trunk road), and various other smaller roads and channelled them into two lanes into Manchester. It was an awful place to be for pedestrians and cyclists alike, with concrete barriers and galvanized steel fences to prevent pedestrians crossing the road, and its only purpose was to get traffic into a city that was already far too crowded with cars.

The changes overall promise to make it into a place where human beings can actually life and breathe rather just than a river of steel. I think the objective here is not to divert people in cars onto another busy route, but rather to encourage people not to bring their cars in the first place. The congestion charge was rejected in a badly organized referendum, so this appears to be the only option following that. I, for one, am very much in favour of the changes in principle.

The problem is that the designers appear to have made a complete hash of it as far as cyclists are concerned, and lost a good opportunity to show how well it could be done.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (12 Jul 2011)

the bridge went about 3 months ago, iirc, they haven't done a very good job making good the pavements either. i'm glad my commute stops at the frederick rd junction.


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## davefb (12 Jul 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> I do think that is a slight misrepresentation. The route as it stood before actually brought traffic together from the A580 (dual carriageway), the M61 (motorway), the A666 (trunk road), the A6 (trunk road), and various other smaller roads and channelled them into two lanes into Manchester. It was an awful place to be for pedestrians and cyclists alike, with concrete barriers and galvanized steel fences to prevent pedestrians crossing the road, and its only purpose was to get traffic into a city that was already far too crowded with cars.
> 
> The changes overall promise to make it into a place where human beings can actually life and breathe rather just than a river of steel. I think the objective here is not to divert people in cars onto another busy route, but rather to encourage people not to bring their cars in the first place. The congestion charge was rejected in a badly organized referendum, so this appears to be the only option following that. I, for one, am very much in favour of the changes in principle.
> 
> The problem is that the designers appear to have made a complete hash of it as far as cyclists are concerned, and lost a good opportunity to show how well it could be done.




they should have either moved the road over behind the broadway bit, or moved the 'pedestrian area to behind' akin to pendlebury and like the wider bit where that horrid cross over you've got to do now... the 580 should be dual carraigeway to the ring road at least (or prioritise another of the roads in).. making the priority to move cars to regent road just makes the assumption thats where people want to be .. its a really short sighted decision .. even with the laudable idea of making the a6 nice again (its been getting worse and worse over the last 20years but so have all similar areas, along with the running down of industry which used to be behind these roads)...
i also dont understand in any way how this would encourage commuters to manchester to somehow stop in salford anyway. it certainly doesnt help get you onto the insanely overcrowded railways and as you point out, it makes a poor cycling area far far worse. 
it just seems akin to if birmingham decided that to get themselves going again, the best way would be to make the m6 into 1 lane.. 

mind you for cycles, once you leave pendlebury, it should be a doddle for them to setup a decent straight lane to get into manchester, but instead they have a lot of little bits of path which help nobody....


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Jul 2011)

davefb said:


> they should have either moved the road over behind the broadway bit ... etc.



I think we are in agreement: a good idea badly executed.


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## Tubbs (12 Jul 2011)

Hehe - that was me talking to you at the lights! 

It's a nightmare at the moment isn't it? It's not too bad for me most days because there's more traffic and it's going at a much slower pace. Have you noticed the set of traffic lights that are not being used yet, just where we need to change lanes? With the position of the give way markings on the road, I wonder whether this will be some kind of filter for buses and cyclists crossing the two lanes to go straight on? I hope so!


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## davefb (12 Jul 2011)

Tubbs said:


> Hehe - that was me talking to you at the lights!
> 
> It's a nightmare at the moment isn't it? It's not too bad for me most days because there's more traffic and it's going at a much slower pace. Have you noticed the set of traffic lights that are not being used yet, just where we need to change lanes? With the position of the give way markings on the road, I wonder whether this will be some kind of filter for buses and cyclists crossing the two lanes to go straight on? I hope so!



its stupid in cars let alone trying to do it in bikes... 

there IS a stupid cycle lane from the end of the pendlebury(well bolton road off broad st) bit, under the roundabout but it's lame which is a shame because they have the space to make a really good one 

wierdly , it ends here... http://maps.google.c...298.19,,0,13.36

its crap, but you avoid that cut across i suppose..... i just hated it though when i was last cycling round there though so anywhere less busy was good!...


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Jul 2011)

Tubbs said:


> Hehe - that was me talking to you at the lights!


Ah, hi Tubbs. Nice to talk to you.



Tubbs said:


> Have you noticed the set of traffic lights that are not being used yet, just where we need to change lanes? With the position of the give way markings on the road, I wonder whether this will be some kind of filter for buses and cyclists crossing the two lanes to go straight on? I hope so!


Interesting. I hadn't noticed that. It certainly looks that way. If so, then I'll take it all back; I guess they haven't finished yet.


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Jul 2011)

davefb said:


> its stupid in cars let alone trying to do it in bikes...
> 
> there IS a stupid cycle lane from the end of the pendlebury(well bolton road off broad st) bit, under the roundabout but it's lame which is a shame because they have the space to make a really good one
> 
> ...


Ah. I certainly avoid all those pathetic shared footpaths with barriers across them. There was a time when I used to go through that lot, but I felt a lot more uncomfortable that I ever do on the roads, especially in the winter when it's dark. Then I discovered the simplicity of just going down Langworthy Road and Eccles Old Road, including a nice fast ride through the underpass on there. It was all this that started me thinking how stupid segregation is in an urban setting (with the odd exception of course).


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## davefb (13 Jul 2011)

Don't mind segregation if it's nicely maintained and a long straight run . After all a lot of areas round there have essentially segregated local roads to the side of the main ones , if it can be done for roads, why not make it so you can cycle down without having to stop every 50feet 

Theres loads of room to keep the 580 going to the ring road/trinity way, without the hodge podge they've done though..


and of course my main gripe about the 580 work was that it moved traffic to the quieter roads where I was either driving to avoid traffic or cycling on .. The plan even mentions how it will all work, because the traffic will just go elsewhere,,, brilliant, so onto roads which have lower capacity!

I dunno, its so depressing that after all that work, its just yet again lip service to cycling, I'll assume there'll be a big PR stunt about 20 feet of nice cycling route in a few weeks.... sheeshh


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## Tubbs (16 Jul 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Ah, hi Tubbs. Nice to talk to you.
> 
> 
> Interesting. I hadn't noticed that. It certainly looks that way. If so, then I'll take it all back; I guess they haven't finished yet.



I remember you were trying to overtake a couple of times on the Height - but there was too much traffic so not enough room. As soon as we turned onto the bus lane you whipped past me and I put everything into keeping up with you. That's why I ended up behind you at the lights! 

The route, once past McDonalds, is actually a lot better. The road surface is fantastic now and there is so much more room! I hope I'm right about the lights and I also hope they have a plan for Chapel Street, which is the biggest pain at the moment. There's not many of us who stick to road here, because there's just not enough room to filter. 


Will have to put my lippy on in future now I know there's a cameraman on my route in the morning!  I noticed your from Bolton, how far is your commute? I only join in from Kearsley into the City Centre and that's just over 7.5 miles each way. Never a dull moment!


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## MrHappyCyclist (17 Jul 2011)

Tubbs said:


> I remember you were trying to overtake a couple of times on the Height - but there was too much traffic so not enough room. As soon as we turned onto the bus lane you whipped past me and I put everything into keeping up with you. That's why I ended up behind you at the lights!


Ha ha. I'm not really that fast, but I do love to push it going down the underpass. It's near the end of my ride, so I can afford to put some effort in. 



Tubbs said:


> The route, once past McDonalds, is actually a lot better. The road surface is fantastic now and there is so much more room! I hope I'm right about the lights and I also hope they have a plan for Chapel Street, which is the biggest pain at the moment. There's not many of us who stick to road here, because there's just not enough room to filter.


I'm away on holiday at the moment, so will be interested to see what they've done when I return. I think the intention is to improve the route all the way down to Manchester. I don't like some of the decisions they have made, though.



Tubbs said:


> Will have to put my lippy on in future now I know there's a cameraman on my route in the morning!  I noticed your from Bolton, how far is your commute? I only join in from Kearsley into the City Centre and that's just over 7.5 miles each way. Never a dull moment!


Well, you looked nice enough to me (if you don't mind me saying ). I have 12.5 miles each way. I don't envy you that last bit at the moment.


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## 400bhp (17 Jul 2011)

Can't you use other roads, e.g. Liverpool St instead?


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## MrHappyCyclist (9 Aug 2011)

I take it all back. Now they've commissioned the new traffic lights and bus/cycle filter lane, it's great! They've actually done something really sensible.

There is a traffic light covering all but the Bus/Cycle lane, which has a filter and give way instead. If you set off from the previous set of lights at a reasonable speed, the lights are phased so that the filter lights change to red by the time you get there, and you can cross the two busy lanes with no traffic. You still have to watch out for red light jumping vehicles, but other than that it works well.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZamZfLXReQ[/media]


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## Parrot of Doom (22 Aug 2011)

That looks sensible enough. A couple of observations, one, I used to use this road in my college days (early 90s) and cycling eastbound, I'd go on the pavement (there was no bus lane then). Westbound, I'd use the bus lane.

Two, not many people are aware of this but the Manchester, Bolton & Bury Canal goes under that road. Although the route there is built over and filled in, it runs north-south along this road and then parallel to the railway. You can see the first rebuilt section further east, between Oldfield Road and the Irwell. If it ever gets restored (and interest is certainly high, the route is now fully protected), that will provide a very nice alternative route into Salford.


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## MrHappyCyclist (22 Aug 2011)

Parrot of Doom said:


> Two, not many people are aware of this but the Manchester, Bolton & Bury Canal goes under that road. Although the route there is built over and filled in, it runs north-south along this road and then parallel to the railway. You can see the first rebuilt section further east, between Oldfield Road and the Irwell. If it ever gets restored (and interest is certainly high, the route is now fully protected), that will provide a very nice alternative route into Salford.


Indeed. It may one day provide a nice route for me to take a nice relaxed ride out to look at the place where I used to work before I retired.


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## Tubbs (25 Aug 2011)

So happy I was right about the new lights - I've had five (yes five!!) weeks off cycling after having a holiday and an operation. Started back cycling on Tuesday this week and I have to say - the new arrangement makes like so much easier! All I need now is for the rest of Chapel Street to be fixed! Very pleased with this though, definitely a step in the right direction. :-)


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## MrHappyCyclist (26 Aug 2011)

Tubbs said:


> So happy I was right about the new lights - I've had five (yes five!!) weeks off cycling after having a holiday and an operation. Started back cycling on Tuesday this week and I have to say - the new arrangement makes like so much easier! All I need now is for the rest of Chapel Street to be fixed! Very pleased with this though, definitely a step in the right direction. :-)


Welcome back then. Hope the operation was OK. Yes, you were right; it's great isn't it. (Although it didn't change to red for me this morning - hopefully just a one-off.)


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Sep 2011)

Ah well, it was nice whilst it lasted. Now we just need some enforcement.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMyfQp0SPXI&lc[/media]


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (7 Sep 2011)

why are they all in the bus lane? fyi, there is a road to your right, it runs alongside till uni lights, might be useful on days like that.


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## al78 (11 Sep 2011)

I'll be up in Salford visiting family at the end of October and use that road to get from Piccadilly Station to the Height. Normally I just use the bus lane up to just past the Pendleton roundabout then bear left and onto Bolton Road. Has anything changed along there since Easter that might cause me difficulties?


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Sep 2011)

al78 said:


> I'll be up in Salford visiting family at the end of October and use that road to get from Piccadilly Station to the Height. Normally I just use the bus lane up to just past the Pendleton roundabout then bear left and onto Bolton Road. Has anything changed along there since Easter that might cause me difficulties?


Do you mean until just past the Salford Precinct roundabout? If so, that part hasn't changed in a long time.

The part up Chapel Street, round the Crescent and up to the railway bridge has changed beyond recognition. Most of that is now 20mph max speed, one general lane and one bus/cycle lane. It is far better now.

The only thing I don't like is the fact that they have put a cycle lane on the inside of a fairly busy bus lane in places; I would much rather just share a single bus/cycle lane.


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## al78 (12 Sep 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Do you mean until just past the Salford Precinct roundabout? If so, that part hasn't changed in a long time.
> 
> The part up Chapel Street, round the Crescent and up to the railway bridge has changed beyond recognition. Most of that is now 20mph max speed, one general lane and one bus/cycle lane. It is far better now.
> 
> The only thing I don't like is the fact that they have put a cycle lane on the inside of a fairly busy bus lane in places; I would much rather just share a single bus/cycle lane.



Yes I was referring to the stretch along the Crescent. Last time I rode along there it was coned down to one lane so if it is all finished I am interested to see what it looks like now.


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