# Police Action Over Pavement Cyclist!



## classic33 (8 Mar 2015)

http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/ne...ke-four-year-old-s-bike-in-grantham-1-6618917





​*"The parents of a four-year-old were shocked when a policeman threatened to confiscate their daughter’s bike as she was riding on the pavement.*

_On Monday morning Sophie Lindley, 4, was riding her bike with stabilisers on a lead held by her father Dale, as they made their way along Trent Road as they regularly do on the journey from their home on Wilks Road to The West Grantham Academy St John’s.

Mr Lindley said: “A police car pulled over and told me she had to get off her bike as it is against the law to ride on the footpath.

“He then drove off but said he’d be checking his mirrors, and if he saw her riding the bike again he would confiscate it.”

Mr Lindley complied, despite then having to carry his crying daughter, her bike, and various other possessions.

On returning home, both his wife, Emma, and mother-in-law, Margaret Stephenson, were shocked by the events, and after looking into the law themselves rang up Grantham police station only to get contradictory responses.

Mrs Stephenson said: “One said the law applied to everyone – no-one can ride a bike on the pavement. But another said it shouldn’t have happened, as it’s different with children.”

Mrs Lindley, 34, said: “You can’t expect a four-year-old to ride in the road, it’s not exactly safe. And she has the lead and wears a helmet.”

Mr Lindley, 35, added: “We don’t have a car, and it’s almost two miles to the school. She can’t walk that with her little legs, which is why she’s always had the bike.”_

Lincolnshire Police have not yet identified any police officer involved, but said they are investigating. A Lincolnshire Police spokesman said: “Safety is our priority and cycling on the pavement is illegal. However, common sense obviously prevails and in the case of young children, officers would use their discretion and offer the most appropriate advice for the circumstances.”"


----------



## Globalti (8 Mar 2015)

Nothing to see here. Move along now.


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Mar 2015)

Too much time on his hands. This is why I think they SHOULD be cutting police budgets. Slowly we've become a Police state.


----------



## Cuchilo (8 Mar 2015)

I'm afraid I would have told him to do one .


----------



## Hitchington (8 Mar 2015)

There's more to this story than meets the eye. I can't believe this was a real policeman.


----------



## classic33 (8 Mar 2015)

Hitchington said:


> There's more to this story than meets the eye. I can't believe this was a real policeman.


Driving a real police car.


----------



## Cuchilo (8 Mar 2015)




----------



## summerdays (8 Mar 2015)

I'd have put my child in the road in front of the police car and then walked behind them! I wonder what they would have said then?


----------



## Cuchilo (8 Mar 2015)

Or tell him to take the bike off the child and then nick the police car and let the child drive it 


Then RUN FOR IT !!!!!


----------



## summerdays (8 Mar 2015)

I'm impressed that she cycles each day but make an effort to loose the lead and stabilisers then she could ride there properly.


----------



## Sara_H (8 Mar 2015)

The police officer is a nobber. 

A few years ago my son, then aged 9 was sat stationary on his bike on the pavement chatting to his mates. A police officer stopped and told him to either dismount or get on the road. 
He wasn't even riding, and the road was a nasty road that I won't ride on.


----------



## sidevalve (8 Mar 2015)

Hitchington said:


> There's more to this story than meets the eye. I can't believe this was a real policeman.


+1 We are not being told something here.


----------



## Sara_H (8 Mar 2015)

sidevalve said:


> +1 We are not being told something here.


I don't find it at all unbelievable. I think it's all to common that police officer abuse their powers and bully soft targets.


----------



## TissoT (8 Mar 2015)

Would the police have words with the Four wheeled battery operated mobility scooters riding on the pavement .


----------



## winjim (8 Mar 2015)

I wish there was room to ride a bike on the pavement on my road. I can't even walk down it for all the parked cars!


----------



## jonny jeez (8 Mar 2015)

He should have refused, got his camera out and filmed the ensuing demise of the coppers career for the media, they love shat like this.


----------



## Tin Pot (8 Mar 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> He should have refused, got his camera out and filmed the ensuing demise of the coppers career for the media, they love shat like this.



Got his camera out? Thus invoking a night in the cells...


----------



## kiriyama (8 Mar 2015)

What a jobsworth. If he said that to me and my 4 year old I don't think I could help but laugh. There has to be more to that story. ..


----------



## ufkacbln (8 Mar 2015)

summerdays said:


> I'm impressed that she cycles each day but make an effort to loose the lead and stabilisers then she could ride there properly.




The lead is for towing dad uphill!


----------



## alecstilleyedye (8 Mar 2015)

i use a bit of pavement in manchester as part of my commute (the road is currently dug up) as it's a safer alternative than negotiating a dual carriageway ring road. i travel at walking pace, always giving way and i've passed plod many times who have yet to show any concern whatsoever…


----------



## raleighnut (8 Mar 2015)

Dickhead.


----------



## Sara_H (8 Mar 2015)

alecstilleyedye said:


> i use a bit of pavement in manchester as part of my commute (the road is currently dug up) as it's a safer alternative than negotiating a dual carriageway ring road. i travel at walking pace, always giving way and i've passed plod many times who have yet to show any concern whatsoever…


I use the pavment a fair bit for a variety of reasons, rarely had a problem. Occasionally been ranted at by pedestrians whom i'd caused no incovenience or danger to and once got told off by an over zealous "city centre ambassador" (basically security guards employed by the council to patrol the town centre) as I crossed from the road to the bike stands about ten feet away.

If I started to have problems i'd carry a copy of the boeteng guidance with me.

Must admit, I'm seeing more and more adult cyclists on pavements, but this just makes me question why they're too afraid to use the roads.


----------



## MontyVeda (8 Mar 2015)

i recall witnessing a local beat bobby having a word with a couple of toddlers for riding on the pavement. That will have been in the early 80s so i can easily believe this story. Some people are just dicks, regardless of their profession.


----------



## spen666 (10 Mar 2015)

*Mod note:* some of the posts from here onwards have been merged from a similar thread.
-------------------

Glad to see the police have stopped pussy footing around when dealing with criminals.

Its taken too long, but the crackdown on crime has begun
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-31805312


----------



## clarion (10 Mar 2015)

I'm hazy on the details; did Mr King have his bicycle confiscated?


----------



## Drago (10 Mar 2015)

That story smells fishier than Adrians home made apple pie.

The police are wrong, the quote from the CTCis wrong, which doesn't leave much else.


----------



## Chris S (10 Mar 2015)

I can just see Maggie smiling down on us (or up)


----------



## Drago (10 Mar 2015)

The story is tosh. Either complete fabrication or widely mis reported. Every party involved has been quoted in the media making highly inaccurate claims about what is permitted, which seems about as likely as Gary Glitter reaching number 1.


----------



## Paul99 (10 Mar 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Dickhead.


 
@raleighnut are you mystic meg?



Chris S said:


> I can just see Maggie smiling down on us (or up)


----------



## spen666 (10 Mar 2015)

just seen there was a pre existing threado n this topic https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/police-action-over-pavement-cyclist.175946/

*Mods seems to make sense to merge this with that one


----------



## Turbo Rider (10 Mar 2015)

Ah well...police budgets are being cut every year, so she'll soon be able ride down the hard shoulder of a motorway, if she likes...bit worrying
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31771456


----------



## raleighnut (10 Mar 2015)

Paul99 said:


> @raleighnut are you mystic meg?


----------



## puffinbilly (10 Mar 2015)

My sympathy lies with the police on this - these toddlers are an absolute menace, they're in pushchairs nipping at your ankles, on bikes without pedals or lights even seen them in cars with no indicators and tax and no windows and pedals instead of an engine. Absolutely appalling behaviour - they sometimes even stop and urinate in the street.....it's a fine line... recently even seen them in tractors and fire engines on the pavements.....next thing you know in a few years time they'll be ruling the world.


----------



## cd365 (10 Mar 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Got his camera out? Thus invoking a night in the cells...


Why? It is perfectly legal to film in a public place.


----------



## classic33 (10 Mar 2015)

User said:


> It's a true story. The police officer (and I'm not convinced it wasn't a Plastic Plod) has been identified and spoken to.
> 
> That said, the response from CTC was actually incorrect...


A "Plastic Plod" PCSO, wouldn't be allowed to drive a marked police vehicle though.


----------



## MontyVeda (10 Mar 2015)

Made Radio 4's PM programme this evening... a crap debate about pavement cycling and road safety followed.


----------



## Tin Pot (10 Mar 2015)

cd365 said:


> Why? It is perfectly legal to film in a public place.


 I know two people who have been incarcerated over night for filming an arrest.
Why? I don't know.


----------



## raleighnut (10 Mar 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I know two people who have been incarcerated over night for filming an arrest.
> Why? I don't know.


Because they can arrest anyone if they want to, 'suspicion' covers a lot of scenarios. I've been arrested a few times at 'demonstrations' and released in the morning without being charged with any offence (mainly cos I havn't committed any offence)


----------



## davefb (10 Mar 2015)

User said:


> It's a true story. The police officer (and I'm not convinced it wasn't a Plastic Plod) has been identified and spoken to.
> 
> That said, the response from CTC was actually incorrect...



Why was the CTC guy incorrect? I'm assuming mean the quote about under 10 you "can't break the law" due to being under the age of criminal responsibilty.

[edit]
oh and seen coppers on bikes in the local town centre, where it's both perfectly okay at sensible speed, but also where the cops/council did a publicised clamp down on people cycling on the same pedestrianised area..


----------



## cd365 (11 Mar 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I know two people who have been incarcerated over night for filming an arrest.
> Why? I don't know.


http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice


----------



## Tin Pot (11 Mar 2015)

cd365 said:


> http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice


I don't see any answers there - was there a point behind posting the link?


----------



## Apollonius (11 Mar 2015)

I disagree. I think the link makes it clear that it is perfectly legal to film the police at work unless your purpose is to prepare an act of terrorism. 

Can somebody make clear what was wrong with the CTC case? I assume we are talking about the man on BBC Breakfast. I know that there is a difference between a child breaking the law and whether they can be prosecuted for it. Was that it?
My understanding is that the only real law on this is the one from the 1860s that forbids velocipedes being ridden on a footway beside a carriageway. The (presumably) CTC guy on TV said this had been modified by a Home Office ruling in 1999 that permitted cycling on the pavement as long as it was done considerately. Is that about right? This is all a bit theoretical as I do not, personally, ride on pavements, but I would like to know what the rules actually are.


----------



## Nortones2 (11 Mar 2015)

Minister called Boateng, endorsed by roads minister Goodwill in 2014, and further endorsed by ACPO.


----------



## cd365 (11 Mar 2015)

Freedom to photograph and film
Members of the public and the media do not need a permit to film or photograph in public places and police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel.


----------



## w00hoo_kent (11 Mar 2015)

This seems to be pretty comprehensive on photography rights. There's also a 'my rights as a photographer' sheet online somewhere that I know some people carry with them so if they get hassle they can produce this and read chapter and verse to the police. The basic situation is a reasonable number of people in uniforms don't actually know the law (in this case).


----------



## youngoldbloke (11 Mar 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> Made Radio 4's PM programme this evening... a crap debate about pavement cycling and road safety followed.


Yes - heard that. Kept wanting to shout FFS, we're talking about a 4 year old! (They weren't)


----------



## MontyVeda (11 Mar 2015)

we've got nobbers in police cars and nobbers on the radio.

does a police officer (plastic or proper) have to authority to just confiscate something, such as a four year old's bike?


----------



## glasgowcyclist (11 Mar 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> The basic situation is a reasonable number of people in uniforms don't actually know the law (in this case).









GC


----------



## Tim Hall (11 Mar 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> View attachment 82180
> 
> 
> GC


Wifi enabled SD cards or Photorec are your friend.


----------



## Big Nick (11 Mar 2015)

Most organisations employ some fcukwits, why would the police be any different?


----------



## Racing roadkill (11 Mar 2015)

You'd have thought the plod would have some common sense about that. He must've been having a very slow day.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Mar 2015)

MontyVeda said:


> does a police officer (plastic or proper) have to authority to just confiscate something, such as a four year old's bike?



No

I wonder what I would have done in the circumstances. Part of me says fight or flight, but part of me says roll over and watch the carnage ensue as the story unfolds when I went to the press.


----------



## buggi (11 Mar 2015)

Apollonius said:


> Can somebody make clear what was wrong with the CTC case? I assume we are talking about the man on BBC Breakfast. I know that there is a difference between a child breaking the law and whether they can be prosecuted for it. Was that it?
> My understanding is that the only real law on this is the one from the 1860s that forbids velocipedes being ridden on a footway beside a carriageway. The (presumably) CTC guy on TV said this had been modified by a Home Office ruling in 1999 that permitted cycling on the pavement as long as it was done considerately. Is that about right? This is all a bit theoretical as I do not, personally, ride on pavements, but I would like to know what the rules actually are.


It is illegal to ride on the footpath unless it is deemed a cycle path. However, the Home Office have given the Police guidance that if the rider is considerate and riding on the pavement because they feel the road is dangerous, the PC can use his/her discretion to not give a ticket. This would have been an appropriate time to use that guidance.


----------



## davefb (12 Mar 2015)

User said:


> Yes.


They can 'break the law' but they cannot be charged with anything?

https://www.gov.uk/child-under-10-breaks-law

"Children under 10 cannot be charged with committing a criminal offence. However, they can be given a:

Local Child Curfew
Child Safety Order"


----------



## winjim (12 Mar 2015)

Is an adult who encourages or allows a child to break the law committing an offence? Conspiracy to cycle on a footway maybe?


----------



## raleighnut (12 Mar 2015)

winjim said:


> Is an adult who encourages or allows a child to break the law committing an offence? Conspiracy to cycle on a footway maybe?


  Nearly spat my tea over the keyboard then.


----------



## jayonabike (12 Mar 2015)

The whole thing just shows how inept the police are. The police force are a bunch of f**kwits.


----------



## summerdays (12 Mar 2015)

winjim said:


> Is an adult who encourages or allows a child to break the law committing an offence? Conspiracy to cycle on a footway maybe?


Not sure in a general sense but when I spoke to a local police officer that I sometimes chat to, he said that if there was persistent dangerous cycling by a young child they they would speak to the parents but possibly also to social workers as there may be wider issues.


----------



## youngoldbloke (12 Mar 2015)

Just a thought ... is it against the law to ride a scooter on the pavement - and if not, why not?


----------



## raleighnut (12 Mar 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just a thought ... is it against the law to ride a scooter on the pavement - and if not, why not?


Vespa or Lambretta.


----------



## Paul99 (12 Mar 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Vespa or Lambretta.


Only a Vespa. Lambretta's are way cooler and should be allowed to go wherever they like.

Of course it is a Lambretta so will break down after 20 yards.


----------



## w00hoo_kent (12 Mar 2015)

Paul99 said:


> Only a Vespa. Lambretta's are way cooler and should be allowed to go wherever they like.
> 
> Of course it is a Lambretta so will break down after 20 yards.


So, is it illegal to push a Lambretta on a pavement?


----------



## Profpointy (12 Mar 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> So, is it illegal to push a Lambretta on a pavement?



it's ok to carry it


----------



## Paul99 (12 Mar 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> So, is it illegal to push a Lambretta on a pavement?


No just criminal.


----------



## Tim Hall (12 Mar 2015)

winjim said:


> Is an adult who encourages or allows a child to break the law committing an offence? Conspiracy to cycle on a footway maybe?


Let him have it Chris.


----------



## winjim (12 Mar 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> Let him have it Chris.


On yer bike.


----------



## classic33 (12 Mar 2015)

winjim said:


> Is an adult who encourages or allows a child to break the law committing an offence? Conspiracy to cycle on a footway maybe?


Aiding and Abetting?


----------



## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2015)

jayonabike said:


> The whole thing just shows how inept the police are. The police force are a bunch of f**kwits.


Let's not tar everyone with the same brush eh?


----------



## bigjim (12 Mar 2015)

jayonabike said:


> The whole thing just shows how inept the police are. The police force are a bunch of f**kwits.


Intelligent comment.
My son is a police officer. I asked him about pavement riding. He says if there is no harm being done he is not interested. He has more important stuff to deal with. He works ten hour shifts, never stops. Most of the time is single manned because of cuts. He has been beaten, spat on, is verbally and physically abused on a regular basis. All this is going on while we sleep soundly in our warm beds.


----------



## DRM (12 Mar 2015)

Sadly all the good work done by such police officers is undone by the stupid over reaction of the one who does things like having a go at a four year old girl.


----------



## DRM (12 Mar 2015)

bigjim said:


> Intelligent comment.
> My son is a police officer. I asked him about pavement riding. He says if there is no harm being done he is not interested. He has more important stuff to deal with. He works ten hour shifts, never stops. Most of the time is single manned because of cuts. He has been beaten, spat on, is verbally and physically abused on a regular basis. All this is going on while we sleep soundly in our warm beds.



Shame that this particular plod has single handedly managed to undo everything that police officers as above achieve.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (12 Mar 2015)

DRM said:


> Shame that this particular plod has single handedly managed to undo everything that police officers as above achieve.




Everything?

GC


----------



## w00hoo_kent (13 Mar 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Everything?
> 
> GC


On the Internet, hyperbole is king.


----------



## Arrowfoot (13 Mar 2015)

bigjim said:


> Intelligent comment.
> My son is a police officer. I asked him about pavement riding. He says if there is no harm being done he is not interested. He has more important stuff to deal with. He works ten hour shifts, never stops. Most of the time is single manned because of cuts. He has been beaten, spat on, is verbally and physically abused on a regular basis. All this is going on while we sleep soundly in our warm beds.



Could we have an intelligent comment from him about the Rochdale Police Inquiry where the today's press have revealed that no actions will be taken against any Police Officer.


----------



## Arrowfoot (13 Mar 2015)

User said:


> Why? What's it to do with him?



He was in position to provide an intelligent comment over the pavement incident.


----------



## summerdays (13 Mar 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> He was in position to provide an intelligent comment over the pavement incident.


No he provided information about he deals with pavement cyclists which is something he probably comes across reasonably frequently. We have no knowledge that he is in Rochdale to be able to comment on how he deals with that case.


----------



## Arrowfoot (13 Mar 2015)

summerdays said:


> No he provided information about he deals with pavement cyclists which is something he probably comes across reasonably frequently. We have no knowledge that he is in Rochdale to be able to comment on how he deals with that case.



Nothing to do with the geography or jurisdiction. Rochdale is not an isolated incidents. It pretty endemic across the coutnry from Saville to Harris. It will be good to find out what is more important than protecting young girls as young as 12 being drugged, repeatedly abused, with multiple reports made and nothing done. 

I think we all agree on the pavement policeman, it the inlelligent reponse that I am following up on.


----------



## summerdays (13 Mar 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> Nothing to do with the geography or jurisdiction. Rochdale is not an isolated incidents. It pretty endemic across the coutnry from Saville to Harris. It will be good to find out what is more important than protecting young girls as young as 12 being drugged, repeatedly abused, with multiple reports made and nothing done.
> 
> I think we all agree on the pavement policeman, it the inlelligent reponse that I am following up on.


Well if he posts in that thread he'll let you know, but this one is about pavement cycling.


----------



## bigjim (13 Mar 2015)

Wake up! The "Intelligent comment" was the response to your silly comment. It was sarcasm. Obviously went straight over your head. Sorry about that.
How you expect a constable miles away from the situations you are talking about able to make a judgement is ridiculous. Many in the front line do express concerns and wish to take action but are undermined by those above them. Like I say he is a bit busy trying to make sure those in his area are able to sleep at night. I'm sure that looking at your comments I'm probably wasting my time replying though. You seem to be very anti police for no informed reason. I wonder who you will shout for when you are being physically threatened?


----------



## winjim (13 Mar 2015)

For 20 years I fought the law. Today the law won

http://gu.com/p/46tv6


----------



## classic33 (13 Mar 2015)

summerdays said:


> Well if he posts in that thread he'll let you know, but this one is about pavement cycling.


Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Arrowfoot (13 Mar 2015)

bigjim said:


> Wake up! The "Intelligent comment" was the response to your silly comment. It was sarcasm. Obviously went straight over your head. Sorry about that.
> How you expect a constable miles away from the situations you are talking about able to make a judgement is ridiculous. Many in the front line do express concerns and wish to take action but are undermined by those above them. Like I say he is a bit busy trying to make sure those in his area are able to sleep at night. I'm sure that looking at your comments I'm probably wasting my time replying though. You seem to be very anti police for no informed reason. I wonder who you will shout for when you are being physically threatened?



Guess I fell for that one. Yes, it whizzed pass me.


----------



## classic33 (13 Mar 2015)

Can we keep the thread online at least.


----------



## glenn forger (13 Mar 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> Nothing to do with the geography or jurisdiction.



Or police cover-ups, the police finding themselves Not Guilty is an old, old story.


----------



## Arrowfoot (14 Mar 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Or police cover-ups, the police finding themselves Not Guilty is an old, old story.


Agree, and there is always a sorry but no action. They will also find that the most culpable has retired.


----------

