# Mary Townley Loop - Sat 19th Sept 2009



## trio25 (17 Jul 2009)

So after a bit of chatting a date has been set, we will probably be starting near hebden bridge.

Who's coming then?

trio25
ColinJ
Shaun
red


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (17 Jul 2009)

me. easy to spot , fat lad at the back on a worn out scott genius


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## ColinJ (17 Jul 2009)

shauncollier said:


> me. easy to spot , fat lad at the back on a worn out scott genius


Possibly chatting to me - another fat lad. I will be on my newly refurbished Rock Lobster, except on steep technical downhills when I will be walking!


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## PaulB (17 Jul 2009)

I'm free!


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## trio25 (17 Jul 2009)

Glad you don't cost anything! So another one to add to the merry bunch!


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## PaulB (17 Jul 2009)

trio25 said:


> Glad you don't cost anything! So another one to add to the merry bunch!



Well I'm free. Whether I can do that brute of a rute or not, I don't know. Bring plenty of tissues to mop my tears, won't you


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## goodspeed (17 Jul 2009)

I'm in  Turn down a chance to ride with a Brownbacks champ! not on your life .
Are you planning to get round in a specific time? cos i ain't got no lights  well none good enough for off road; so I'd hope to be around the 10hr mark or quicker if everyones up for it.
I think there's another official MTL event comming up soon. does anyone know when? think it might be August but not sure.


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## ColinJ (17 Jul 2009)

goodspeed said:


> Are you planning to get round in a specific time? cos i ain't got no lights  well none good enough for off road; so I'd hope to be around the 10hr mark or quicker if everyones up for it.
> I think there's another official MTL event comming up soon. does anyone know when? think it might be August but not sure.


If we set off at 08:00 we'd have 11 hours of daylight and even I could do it in less than that! I reckon it might take me up to about 9 hours including stops and I'm likely to be the slowest rider among us.



goodspeed said:


> I think there's another official MTL event comming up soon. does anyone know when? think it might be August but not sure.


6 days before us and costing £18 more!


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## goodspeed (17 Jul 2009)

That's good, It'll be nicely churned up for us the following week


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## trio25 (17 Jul 2009)

Brownbacks champion is just one of my many achievements...

...did I forget to mention I was charging for my company ;-)

Anyway I think the idea is to get round in the light, I know I have a reputation for long rides where lights are needed but the route for this one is in the public domain!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Jul 2009)

i didn't know it was THAT sort of service you provided trio, better not tell the wife lol


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## Globalti (18 Jul 2009)

Count me in, assuming I'm not travelling in some exotic land. Already done it a couple of times but don't mind it for the craic.

BTW, if anybody wants to read a nice description of the route, a former riding buddy has one on his site, here: http://www.idonohoe.com/mountian_bike9.htm

Ian describes it c/clockwise but the recommendation is to to it clockwise. Find Ian's map and click on the numbers for a taste of the quality of the scenery.


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## ColinJ (18 Jul 2009)

Rigid Raider said:


> Count me in, assuming I'm not travelling in some exotic land. Already done it a couple of times but don't mind it for the craic.
> 
> BTW, if anybody wants to read a nice description of the route, a former riding buddy has one on his site, here: http://www.idonohoe.com/mountian_bike9.htm
> 
> Ian describes it c/clockwise but the recommendation is to to it clockwise. Find Ian's map and click on the numbers for a taste of the quality of the scenery.


I found Ian's website years ago when I first heard about the MTL. It's a very good resource. Pity about the typo in the URL though, which he has never fixed!

I think that we are planning to do it clockwise. From what I recall of having done about 80% of it, it is definitely more rideable that way. 

I'll still be walking down the steep rocky stuff though - you can see from the photo of my MTB (above) how high my saddle is. I always feel as though I'd go over the handlebars if I hit a big rock.

For that reason, I never ride down the official route from Blackshaw Head to Callis Bridge. There is an alternative bridleway down to Turret Hall which is more my kind of thing - switchbacks and good surfaces! It also brings me out closer to Hebden Bridge.


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## PaulB (18 Jul 2009)

I've never been a fan of the mountain bike, especially since one turned on me and fractured my sternum one time but I am aware of the need for one and the need to actually do something with it and this gives me a purpose.


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## RedBike (18 Jul 2009)

> I'll still be walking down the steep rocky stuff though - you can see from the photo of my MTB (above) how high my saddle is. I always feel as though I'd go over the handlebars if I hit a big rock.




I've got the same bike. My saddle is also up rather high. - I will be joining you walking!


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## trio25 (20 Jul 2009)

You could try dropping your saddle for descents!!!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Jul 2009)

arms stretched out, put the seat in to you chest, arse nearly touching the rear tyre. you go down almost anything without going over bars. if it gets too hairy then just slam rear brake on lean sharply either way and hit the deck, easy peasy. but you need a narrow saddle, a wide one like the brooks just doesn't slide between the legs easily.


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## ColinJ (20 Jul 2009)

trio25 said:


> You could try dropping your saddle for descents!!!


I used to have a quick release for that but I got fed up of constantly stopping to lower and raise the saddle. If I could afford something like the Gravity Dropper that would be great.



shauncollier said:


> arms stretched out, put the seat in to you chest, arse nearly touching the rear tyre. you go down almost anything without going over bars. if it gets too hairy then just slam rear brake on lean sharply either way and hit the deck, easy peasy. but you need a narrow saddle, a wide one like the brooks just doesn't slide between the legs easily.


I was with you up to the point where you explained that the alternative to going over the bars was to drop the bike and hit the deck! 

My alternative to going over the bars or hitting the deck is to get off and walk down! 

Also - narrow saddles give me terrible sores so I have to use wider ones.


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## RedBike (20 Jul 2009)

lol - Remind me not to ride off to the side of SC.

Getting down hills is all mental. You just need to have the mental ability to let go of the brakes, relax and let the bike do the work. If you tense up, grip the bars for dear life and start applying handfulls of brakes things soon go wrong. 

Sadly this is all much easier said than done. I have this strong survival instinct that seems to insist that I hang on for dear life and edge down hills very slowly making good use of the brakes.


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## trio25 (20 Jul 2009)

Actually if your weight is far enough back you can step off the back and let the bike go! I have done that a few times! I hate falling off and do nearly anything to avoid it!


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## ColinJ (20 Jul 2009)

*A Tale of Two Endos*

Having just bought my first mountain bike, I decided to go and check out some of the bridleway action above Hebden Bridge. 

As I was riding through the hamlet of Walshaw, another MTB rider came up alongside me and started chatting. He was a Keighley rider doing a loop taking in a bridleway sandwiched between Trawden and Boulsworth Hill. I liked the sound of that one and decided to tag along.

We rode up past Widdop reservoir together and made our way round to the bridleway, situated just before Coldwell activity centre. Keighley man was pretty quick and I was struggling to keep up with him, especially on descents. 

I put a big effort in to catch up just as we got to the top of a rise which led straight into a fast descent into a dip. He plummeted down towards a large swampy puddle which covered the bridleway. As he hit the puddle he created a huge wave and powered his way up out of the dip.

Any doubts I'd had about the puddle were dispelled - he'd got through it okay so why shouldn't I? I hit it at full speed, intent on creating an even bigger splash than he had done. What actually happened was that my front wheel hit something and stopped dead! I was launched over the handlebars and flew about 6 feet up into the air. I was airborne long enough to realise that there were large boulders everwhere... By a miracle I landed between two huge chunks of millstone grit, face-first in the swamp. I heard the sound of laughter, cheers and clapping and someone called out "Brilliant - do it again mate!" I looked round and saw a group of about 10 ramblers sitting up the embankment. They were eating sandwiches and drinking tea from their flasks. I took a deep bow and said "I thank you, and for my next trick I will..." 


Some time later, I was bombing down another descent and made the mistake of taking my eyes off the trail for a second. When I looked forwards again I saw that I had ridden into a narrowing and deepening rut from which there would be no escape! I panicked and grabbed a handful of brake and the front of the bike stopped dead. The back of the bike with me on it carried on moving forwards in a graceful arc. It threw me up into the air and I landed clear of the bike on my feet and running! Unfortunately, I didn't have any witnesses to that one!


There have been many other endos - too many. I've been very lucky so far not to have seriously injured myself. I reckon it's time for me to walk down the seriously steep technical stuff!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Jul 2009)

no no, my point wasn't just let go of the brakes, that's for people with no regard for their own safety or people who know particular trails well. always always cover your brake levers. trio is right if lean far enough back you can let go of your bike, but your bike may continue on its merry way to the bottom and brake something. gently leaning to the side just makes your knees dirty but bike is nice and safe, but only if you are going slow, another way is to gently come to as stop, then lean over. i had problems when i got my bike for a few years of not being able to get the forks set up to my liking and doing too many endo's. in the end i spotted that i had my grips past the centre line of the wheel. i rotated the bars back and instantly improved my downhill handling problems as my shocks now do there job by going over stuff instead of stopping, bottoming out and launching me forward, extra benefit is i now have a more upright position which is better on the lower back. might be worth checking to see if you've got the same problem of the grips being past the skewer.

cheers


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## Globalti (22 Jul 2009)

Getting off the back of the saddle is the right technique for going down a really steep hill...

.....until both your SPDs unclip simultaneously and you crash forward hitting your nads on the saddle or even the top tube. 

Don't ask me how I know!


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## ColinJ (22 Jul 2009)

Rigid Raider said:


> Getting off the back of the saddle is the right technique for going down a really steep hill...
> 
> .....until both your SPDs unclip simultaneously and you crash forward hitting your nads on the saddle or even the top tube.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know!


I've gone backwards off my MTB, gone clean over the handlebars several times, fallen off heavily to the left, fallen off heavily to the right, had nad-saddle interaction, nad-top-tube interaction, nad-stem interaction and... 





... now I get off and walk down some of the steep technical stuff!


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## RedBike (22 Jul 2009)

I'm off to ride to the start of the pennine bridleway tonight. 
Stopping half way around tomorrow night and hopefully, all being well finish sometime late Friday night!!


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## trio25 (29 Jul 2009)

Rode the MTL yesterday, the weather made it hard. Took us 8hours to get round without really stopping.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (5 Aug 2009)

just bumping this up. are we still on?


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## Globalti (6 Aug 2009)

Yes Dude.


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## ColinJ (6 Aug 2009)

I'd still like to do it but I've had nearly 3 weeks off my bikes with the _dreaded lurgy_. If I'm back to an appropriate level of fitness by then, I'll join you.


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## RedBike (6 Aug 2009)

ColinJ said:


> I'd still like to do it but I've had nearly 3 weeks off my bikes with the _dreaded lurgy_. If I'm back to an appropriate level of fitness by then, I'll join you.




If I can get around then i'm sure you will!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Aug 2009)

bump. still on?


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## ColinJ (31 Aug 2009)

shauncollier said:


> bump. still on?


I'm still hoping to join you but yesterday's very hilly 100 km road ride with PaulB and his son confirmed that my fitness isn't super. I felt pretty tired afterwards and fairly stiff and sore. That suggests that I'd struggle a bit on the MTL. Still - there are plenty of bail-out opportunities if I was really on a bad day. If I end up in one of the valleys and can't face going up over any more hills, I can always ride home on the road if I have to.

I also think I'll need to invest in a new back tyre since there is hardly any tread left on the current one. Any suggestions for a good cross country MTB tyre which is not too expensive? (Below £25, preferably significantly below!) At least 2.1", possibly bigger. Not too heavy. Fairly hard wearing.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Aug 2009)

panaracer fire road xc (i think that's the right name ish). don't worry about your fitness. i'm nowhere fit enough in reality but i still did it last time. at least we can keep each other company. i'm hoping to do it in less than 8 hours but not bothered if it takes me 10 again. this time i'm taking gels just in case i feel like blowing again.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Aug 2009)

with regards to start time. i think it may be wise to start early. i think it would make more sense to finish in daylight rather than 'us' at the back struggling with tiredness AND cold AND darkness. however, we also have to take into consideration where we are stopping for food and which pubs / cafe's will be open. we also need to think of where we are starting. it's getting closer so we need to pin down some details.


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## RedBike (31 Aug 2009)

Where is the start?


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## ColinJ (31 Aug 2009)

RedBike said:


> Where is the start?


From a purely selfish point of view, I'd suggest Hebden Bridge since I don't have a car and I'll probably get knackered enough doing just the MTL without riding 10 or 15 miles each way on the road to some other starting point. (I'm assuming that the rest of you will be driving.). We could do a nice gentle warm-up along the canal towpath before hitting the first climb.

Actually, looking back in the thread, trio has already suggested that.



shauncollier said:


> with regards to start time. i think it may be wise to start early. i think it would make more sense to finish in daylight rather than 'us' at the back struggling with tiredness AND cold AND darkness.


Agreed, but already suggested too - 08:00 giving us 11 hours of daylight?



shauncollier said:


> however, we also have to take into consideration where we are stopping for food and which pubs / cafe's will be open. we also need to think of where we are starting. it's getting closer so we need to pin down some details.


I can't remember whether we said clockwise or anti-clockwise. If it is clockwise from HB, I'd suggest the Ram Inn at Holme Chapel which at about the 2/3 point in that direction. The only downside being that we would have to do a climb straight afterwards.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Aug 2009)

that sounds fine for me. i agree to all. i will be fetching my bike in a trailer. have you got any ideas with regards to parking. ram inn is a good pub (only 3 1/2 miles from me) and it also means we will have done the thousand gates mile. mind you the pack horse at widdup is also a very good pub and is after the gorple climb. i think we agreed cw as it doesn't have as much pushing


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Aug 2009)

by the way, i have just done a few hours on the mtl at my end, waterfoot to the memorial and around there. it is very very muddy. i haven't been up for about a month as i've been playing on my brommie. it obviously has seen increased usage.


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## trio25 (1 Sep 2009)

Colin, Ali is thinking of coming for some of the route and bailing out early so if anyone fancies a shorter one that is an option. We are on the track the next day so she wants fresh legs!

parking, I am going to dump my car at my friends house, not much use for the rest of you!


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2009)

trio25 said:


> Colin, Ali is thinking of coming for some of the route and bailing out early so if anyone fancies a shorter one that is an option. We are on the track the next day so she wants fresh legs!


Great - though I'll do my best to make it round the whole loop. I'll have 'home advantage' in that I know the local parts of the loop really well so I know what is coming after the Ram Inn. Also, I'll be close to home at the end so I don't have to worry about the journey home at the end.



trio25 said:


> parking, I am going to dump my car at my friends house, not much use for the rest of you!


Market Place is best car park to use - it is long-stay and only 30p/hour. It will be almost empty at that time in the morning. Make sure you put enough money in the Pay-and-display machine because parking wardens do patrol here and it is a £60 fine if they catch you out!







There are one-way streets and pedestrian areas so I suggest going to the car park via Old Gate (by the river), and Hangingroyd Lane.

Leave the car park by St. George's Street (over the river) and bear left a few yards to the junction with the Keighley Road. Turn right, immediately right again, then bear left down Albert Street to the traffic lights on the A646. Turn left at the lights for Halifax/Bradford/Leeds direction, or right for Todmorden/Greater Manchester.


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## RedBike (1 Sep 2009)

> Colin, Ali is thinking of coming for some of the route and bailing out early so if anyone fancies a shorter one that is an option. We are on the track the next day so she wants fresh legs!


Would you fancy a lift back to your house if Ali disapears with the car?


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## trio25 (1 Sep 2009)

That would be great, I'll tell her about that option, she probably would meet us at the pub or something, has to be planned yet and she might not come, in which case I'll steal a lift both ways!


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## RedBike (1 Sep 2009)

I'm still not sure where we are starting from. 
Where exactly are we meeting in Hebden Bridge? 

Isn't Hebden bridge a mile or so off route?


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## RedBike (1 Sep 2009)

trio25 said:


> That would be great, I'll tell her about that option, she probably would meet us at the pub or something, has to be planned yet and she might not come, in which case I'll steal a lift both ways!



And there I was thinking you'd ride both ways. You're clearly starting to get lazy Trio


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Sep 2009)

paying for parking!!! i'll ride in it's only an extra 13 miles each way. where exactly are we meeting? swapping numbers might be a good idea as well just in case some are late


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2009)

RedBike said:


> I'm still not sure where we are starting from.
> Where exactly are we meeting in Hebden Bridge?
> 
> Isn't Hebden bridge a mile or so off route?


Hebden Bridge is about 1.5 miles from Callis Bridge which is where the MTL crosses the A646. I'd be quite happy to meet you there. You could probably drive a short way up into Callis wood (the Stoodley Pike side of the road) and park up there. NB I'm assuming that the residents of the nearby terrace of cottages wouldn't object! If you'd prefer to park in HB, use the car park I described above and I'll meet you there. We could meet Shaun at Callis Bridge, either way.



shauncollier said:


> paying for parking!!! i'll ride in it's only an extra 13 miles each way. where exactly are we meeting? swapping numbers might be a good idea as well just in case some are late


Callis Bridge?

We can sort out phone numbers and times nearer the day, when we know exactly who is coming along.


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## RedBike (1 Sep 2009)

That sounds like a better plan
Hopefully this is Callis Bridge
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?...archp=ids.srf&dn=613&ax=397171&ay=426409&lm=0


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Sep 2009)

sounds great. do we all accept this as a meeting place?


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2009)

RedBike said:


> That sounds like a better plan
> Hopefully this is Callis Bridge
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?...archp=ids.srf&dn=613&ax=397171&ay=426409&lm=0


That's the one - coming from the Todmorden direction it is on the right immediately after the sewerage works where the Pegasus crossing is (high pelican crossing for horsey people!) The PBW/MTL goes up through the wood and has been rerouted along what is shown as Pinnacle Lane on that map.

You'll have to use your discretion as to where to park. The first part of the climb has some space at the side of the dirt road but that is where the residents of the houses park and you might annoy them if you take up one of 'their' spaces. On the other hand, you don't want to park too high up where it is narrow and you might block the way for farm traffic from above the wood.

I'll ride along the towpath and meet you by the PBW/MTL sign at the canal bridge at Callis.


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## trio25 (2 Sep 2009)

I will probably park at HB, as I can just park outside my friends house and not worry about annoying anyone I don't know. So then I will ride over. Colin that means you have company on the way back!


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## ColinJ (2 Sep 2009)

If any of you are ever driving to HB and want free parking, there is a spot known to locals where there are no yellow lines - just don't tell anybody that I sent you!

From the Todmorden direction, turn right just before the Co-op, go over the canal bridge and turn right up the Horsehold climb. If you get there early enough you can usually find a space on the right hand side of the road at the foot of the hill.

PS Trio - I probably won't be capable of saying very much on the run back into HB!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (2 Sep 2009)

fyi,

on bikehike there is a near enough version of mtl someone has saved. just search for mary townley and it pops ups up. good for elevation and gradient info. if you use osm layer aswell it clears the junk out of the way


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## trio25 (2 Sep 2009)

here

www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?id=5452 

It is a nice route, although exposed in places. My last time round was in the rain and it was a case of plodding on at times.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (2 Sep 2009)

cheers trio,

never thought to cut n paste. thanks for reply on other thread. i worry like an old biddy sometimes. just my age i think.

like i said, i'm going to leave it as is and trust you and red. i think the problem is that on the bridleways (mtl & others) around my way are really muddy, hilly, and too well used to get a good idea if my set up is ok for longer routes. 

i'm going to use the money for a new headset instead, it's buggered.


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## trio25 (14 Sep 2009)

Sorry folks, but I've ended up with a silly busy week this week. My legs will not thank me for riding saturday as well, so I can't make it!


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## RedBike (14 Sep 2009)

trio25 said:


> Sorry folks, but I've ended up with a silly busy week this week. My legs will not thank me for riding saturday as well, so I can't make it!



I hope everythings alright. 

Trio with tired legs? - I don't believe it!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (14 Sep 2009)

i'm still doing it. who else?


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## RedBike (14 Sep 2009)

I'm still up for it.


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## trio25 (14 Sep 2009)

Redbike, I have ended up with a week with lots of riding, will have done 240miles by saturday I will need to rest for sunday!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (14 Sep 2009)

trio25 said:


> Redbike, I have ended up with a week with lots of riding, will have done 240miles by saturday I will need to rest for sunday!




it just means we might be able to keep up with you!!!


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## RedBike (14 Sep 2009)

Thats a big mileage. 
After months of asking you to take a rest I guess i'm just shocked that you actually are! 

Look after yourself Trio. 
xx

-I'm still in self destuct mode.I'm stressed and riding seems to help so I'm REALLY clocking up the miles. I've just realised tonight that my commute has become 40miles each way. I'm also planning another 150miler tomorrow to watch the tour.


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## trio25 (14 Sep 2009)

Yes red that is a big mileage!!! I am not the one that doesn't rest that is you! I also have a full day at the track on sunday!


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## RedBike (14 Sep 2009)

Ignore that bit about the tour. 
Just read another thread on here and changed my mind. 

I'm riding to Edale/Hope then running part of the Skyline route instead.


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## Globalti (16 Sep 2009)

So you're meeting at Callis bridge. At what time? If I can make it I'll be there; it depends on family commitments.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Sep 2009)

we agreed to meet at 8am to make the most of the daylight.


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## ColinJ (16 Sep 2009)

Hi folks - I'm just back from a week in the midlands and haven't been online all that time. I'm still up for the MTL ride. I'm hoping that it has been as dry up here as it was down there so that some of the mud will have dried up!

*PS* Enjoy the rest trio - it sounds as though you need/deserve one!


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## ColinJ (18 Sep 2009)

_RedBike_ is already on his way - he is riding here overnight, grabbing a couple of hours sleep somewhere and then doing the MTL with us (and presumably riding home afterwards). As if that isn't enough, he said that he will be on his singlespeed MTB... 

I'm meeting _goodspeed_ in Hebden Bridge at 07:40 then we will ride to Callis Bridge along the canal towpath.

Shaun - I'll PM you my mobile number.


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## trio25 (18 Sep 2009)

Red is crazy!

Have a great time and make sure red eats!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Sep 2009)

yes mom


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Sep 2009)

well i am well pissed off. we set off on what can only be described as the perfect day. after about a hour and a half, my chain ring bolts came loose and 2 had fallen out. no choice but to bail as i am single speed. aaaaarrrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!! 

one of the other lads took a nasty fall and bashed his knee, i hope he can carry on.

any way, i will do it next saturday / sunday. anybody want to join me. starting, say at waterfoot?

for you guys doing it today, let me know how it went. good luck (not that they can here me but hey, they might feel the good vibes)


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## trio25 (19 Sep 2009)

Shame shaun, chainring bolts made my tool kit after someone I rode with had that problem.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Sep 2009)

really? i've never heard of them coming loose before. but i've got some extras on order. 3 lbs's don't stock xtr ones as they are specials and difficult to get from shimano. going to get some stud lock as well. redbike text me to say they've finished but cheated. i don't know what he meant yet.


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2009)

Okay, here's a summary of what happened...

First, Martin (_goodspeed_) fell off his bike on the little cobbled bridleway down from Mankinholes to Lumbutts. He skinned his knee, but more importantly, he gave it a good hard knock and it was hurting him for the rest of the ride. It didn't help that he fell off on it again later at Top of Leach!

2 of Shaun's 4 chainring bolts went walkabout, as described above. Shaun thought about carrying on but it would have been crazy. He'd probably have ended up with a broken bike miles from where he'd left his car so abandoning was all that he could do really.

Jon (_RedBike_ - though funnily enough he was riding a black bike today) demonstrated what a fit rider can do on a singlespeed bike. I am not worthy! 

I demonstrated what an overweight middle-aged guy with 27 gears can't do on a mountain bike - especially on anything remotely technical! I kept Martin and Jon waiting a lot more than I should have done really, but they were very good-natured about it.

Martin had a route programmed into his GPS. I say 'a route' since it wasn't really an accurate version of the PBW/MTL route! I think it was derived from a tracklog of somebody's attempt to ride the MTL, complete with doubling-back and diversions. Our navigational problems were compounded by finding that idiots had pulled down quite a few of the PBW signs. And so it was that I managed to miss the correct bridleway at Deerplay and lead us on a major push over a boggy moor up to Thieveley Pike. I went up there on the Rossendale Mountain Bike Challenge a few years ago and somehow got the two routes confused. I didn't remember until I got home that I had the official MTL guide in my bag and it would have clearly shown us which way to go. 

We ended up criss-crossing the Deerplay hillside in drizzly conditions before finally deciding that we would give up on completing the MTL today and just head down to the valley and ride back to Callis Bridge on the A646. Martin's knee was giving up on him, but I can't use that as an excuse because I didn't really feel that I wanted to do the last section from the Ram Inn either. 

On our trip down the hillside I somehow managed to dig my front wheel into some kind of rut that I hadn't spotted and the next thing I was flying through the air and landed heavily on my back. I heard the bones in my back and neck go 'crunch' and had a moment of panic before I realised that I could still wiggle my fingers and toes and nothing seemed to be broken. It was rather like the demonstration that a sadistic Judo instructor subjected me to at school nearly 40 years ago - "This is how much it hurts if you don't know how to break a fall properly! In case you didn't see Colin wince when I threw him 6 feet in the air, dumping him on his back, I'll do it again. Repeatedly! Next week, I'll teach you how to break a fall."

I'm aching all over now, and feel a slight sense of failure for not completing the ride, but overall I enjoyed our day out. I didn't like the muddy bits, the gates, the technical descents and the steep pushes, but there were some really nice stretches of bridleway that I'd like to ride again. I think that I'll give the MTL a miss until next year now. I need to get fitter to really enjoy it.

It was nice to meet Shaun and Jon, and to see Martin again.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Sep 2009)

oh dear not a good day then. i'm sorry to hear it wasn't to be today. 

i'm doing next weekend come hell or high water. i've lined up some 'borrowed' granny ring bolts, just in case mine don't arrive. i'm glueing these buggers in!!!

if anyone wishes to join me then please do!! i'm planning of starting from waterfoot / the bit above dunnockshaw, simply because i live near there. however i'm flexible and can meet wherever.

once again bad luck lads.


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## trio25 (20 Sep 2009)

Sounds an epic Colin!

Red is very fit and fast!


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## Globalti (20 Sep 2009)

Both times I've done the MTL have been in warm sunshine, with long summer daylight available. I wouldn't want to do it in wet or muddy conditions. Some people do it in two or even three days! The stupid vandalism of the direction signs is an additional irritation. 

Maybe plan it for May or June next year when the weather will be nicer?


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

I was feeling really knackered last night - the kind of all-body knackered that road riding doesn't give you. I don't really get any upper body exercise (unless you count typing and PC mouse operation as exercise ) so hard MTB rides really wear me out. My arms and shoulders suffered much more than my legs. I'd promised myself some beer last night but I didn't even have the strength to drink it! Anyway, I feel much better after a good night's sleep. 

I think that I'd prefer to skip the mud and drizzle, so perhaps next summer _would_ be the best time for me to try it again. 

Shaun - you are a brave fellow to plan to plan to tackle it in winter! There are some very exposed places up on the hills and you probably won't get a mobile signal everywhere on the loop. One bad fall and you could be in serious trouble. Definitely not something that I'd fancy, but good luck if you go for it.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

it's was probably worse last time. it was unrelenting sun, i was seriously under nourished and probably dangerously dehydrated. any future attempts will see me well prepared. yesterday i was extremely unlucky. who has granny ring bolts coming undone? on a side note, the gearing i chose was perfect. obviously more of a spinner than i thought.

i still find it amazing you got lost where you did. especially as i think redbikes has done it at least twice. to end up at thievley pike monument is an almighty cock up and incredibly hard work. you must have gone one of 2 ways and i know both well. which way did you go? the brick road or the muddy singletrack route that crosses a small steep ravine? for future reference, when you cross bacup road, just freewheel and your bike will follow the correct route as it's mostly downhill to the memorial stone. i was only up there last week and the signposts were still up.


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

shauncollier said:


> i still find it amazing you got lost where you did.


I do too!  

Looking at my 1:25,000 map. I can see that we just went straight on from the gate, at 90 degrees to the road, rather than sticking close to the road and dropping down past the Mary Towneley memorial.

I don't think I ate or drank enough yesterday because I was feeling pretty fuzzy headed a lot of the time. I was getting off and walking stuff that even I should have been able to ride because I just wasn't thinking straight. By the time we got to Deerplay, the clouds had closed in and it was damp and miserable. I don't know what I was thinking because I've ridden up there before...



shauncollier said:


> ... to end up at thievley pike monument is an almighty cock up and incredibly hard work. you must have gone one of 2 ways and i know both well. which way did you go? the brick road or the muddy singletrack route that crosses a small steep ravine?


We went via the ravine. It was a hard push and then conditions were boggy up above. Because of his painful knee, Martin had wanted to ride up from the Ram Inn and then ride back towards Callis Bridge via the Long Causeway, thus avoiding the long offroad climb up over to Widdop. By the time we'd faffed about on Deerplay in the wet, I didn't even want to do that so we 'cheated' and went back on the A646 and Rochdale canal towpath.


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

Unfortunately, as well as having done the MTL I have also done a ride that went up to Thieveley Pike. As everything looked familiar and I could clearly remember having rode that way before I didn't realise we wern't on route until it was far too late. 

I woke up this morning with a thumping headache and aching legs. I realised when I emptyed out my camelbak that I hadn't actually drunk any of it. So I had done the ride out and 3/4 of the MTL on just two 750ml bottles. It was no wonder I was feeling rough this morning. 

It was good to meet everyone. I will no doubt be trying that loop again; but not until next year now.


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## goodspeed (20 Sep 2009)

I'm really suffering today! could hardly move this morning and my knee's aching like a Bugger. think I'll stick to the road for a while.
After all the pitfalls it was still an enjoyable day and nice to have met everyone.
Thanks to Red for the majority of the route finding. I have to admit to operator error for the total failure of my new GPS. I think the settings were all wrong for off road, so at every turn it was trying to redirect to the nearest road, something like that.
So maybe try again next summer!


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

> I have to admit to operator error for the total failure of my new GPS. I think the settings were all wrong for off road, so at every turn it was trying to redirect to the nearest road, something like that.



Your GPS came into it's own getting us off the Pike and down to the road.


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

goodspeed said:


> I'm really suffering today! could hardly move this morning and my knee's aching like a Bugger. think I'll stick to the road for a while.


I hope you haven't done it any long-term damage. With a bit of luck it will feel okay in a couple of days.



goodspeed said:


> Thanks to Red for the majority of the route finding. I have to admit to operator error for the total failure of my new GPS. I think the settings were all wrong for off road, so at every turn it was trying to redirect to the nearest road, something like that.
> 
> So maybe try again next summer!


There must be some way that you can tell it not to suggest anything, but just to follow the route you've loaded in? 

Anyway, I've just been on Bikely to look at the route you downloaded. It is majorly (© Sean Kelly 2009) wrong in places. As I said when we set off - it goes to Horsehold and along along Kilnshaw Lane, as opposed to what we did which was the official route. More importantly - it didn't follow the bridleway to the Bacup Road and the official crossing - it followed the road in the direction of Burnley before going offroad again on the correct route.

I'd really advise anybody downloading routes to double-check them against a map because a lot of people seem to just upload their tracklogs, complete with navigational errors!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

oh dear, that is probably the best of two evils. the brick road is an absolute nightmare even when fresh. but doing the ravine run when already running on reserve energy must have been soul destroying. especially in the wet and unsure of where you are. but you still did a respectable distance and time on the moors. surely that's not a failure in anybody's eyes. actually the sign you followed has only been up a short time, so that was pretty unlucky timing. did you return via the ravine run or did you cross the fields onto the roads? if you did return via the ravine run did you enjoy it? it's one of my favorite bits of 'proper natural' bridleway.

if you fancy coming up one day, i'll show you the rest of that bridleway and some brilliant little known downhills bits. only a couple hours riding.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

ColinJ said:


> I hope you haven't done it any long-term damage. With a bit of luck it will feel okay in a couple of days.
> 
> 
> There must be some way that you can tell it not to suggest anything, but just to follow the route you've loaded in?
> ...



and to take a map and compass. i always do. i assumed you had one yesterday. had i known you didn't i would of given you mine. i always carry a survival cover aswell. packs small but as you saw yesterday it can change in an instant up t' moors.


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

We had a map and a compass. Well I did. 
Can't use them; but I did have them


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

RedBike said:


> We had a map and a compass. Well I did.
> *Can't use them*; but I did have them




oh dear oh dear. 

google for 'ordnance survey' website, they have tutorials on there it's not hard, but an absolute must to be able to read maps.


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

I had a map that ONLY showed the MTL loop. Once we were up near the Pike it was pretty useless as we were off the map / half the paths weren't on. It was also impossible to tell where any of the roads went to!


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

shauncollier said:


> oh dear, that is probably the best of two evils. the brick road is an absolute nightmare even when fresh. but doing the ravine run when already running on reserve energy must have been soul destroying. especially in the wet and unsure of where you are. but you still did a respectable distance and time on the moors. surely that's not a failure in anybody's eyes. actually the sign you followed has only been up a short time, so that was pretty unlucky timing. did you return via the ravine run or did you cross the fields onto the roads? if you did return via the ravine run did you enjoy it? it's one of my favorite bits of 'proper natural' bridleway.
> 
> if you fancy coming up one day, i'll show you the rest of that bridleway and some brilliant little known downhills bits. only a couple hours riding.


We ended up going back to the pike and then eventually followed a footpath down to the A646. What we could have done would have been to follow a grass road back up to the A671 from halfway down the footpath. There was a burned out vehicle on it so it obviously went somewhere. I followed it up the hill and it ended up at a disused quarry pit, so going the other way would definitely have brought us out on a proper road eventually. That might have been a better bet than our footpath.

As for 'proper natural' bridleways... I confirmed yesterday that I don't like really steep, technical stuff! I'm not a fan of walking my bike up impossible climbs and I'm never going to be a downhiller. I don't enjoy adrenaline rushes so I have no incentive to improve my skills - I just wouldn't use them. Watching Martin fall off on a relatively simple descent on large stone slabs reminded me why I feel the way I do, and flying through the air later on myself didn't make me change my mind! 



shauncollier said:


> ... and to take a map and compass. i always do. i assumed you had one yesterday. had i known you didn't i would of given you mine. i always carry a survival cover aswell. packs small but as you saw yesterday it can change in an instant up t' moors.


Jon had a map of the route. Martin's GPS told us exactly where we were, but it wasn't easy to see the best way back to the road.

To be honest, I never normally go out on proper moors so there is no danger of me getting lost. Normally it is stuff like London Road, Kilnshaw Lane, Duke Street, Edge lane and so on. Mainly old packhorse trails, reservoir access roads and farm tracks.


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

ColinJ said:


> Jon had a map of the route. Martin's GPS told us exactly where we were, but it wasn't easy to see the best way back to the road.


Because of course we were about a couple of kms off the route, having not consulted the map while we were still on it!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

any idea where you went? miles completed, hours on the bikes? can you plot it out on summat like bikehike? just coz i'm nosey.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

ColinJ said:


> We ended up going back to the pike and then eventually followed a footpath down to the A646. What we could have done would have been to follow a grass road back up to the A671 from halfway down the footpath. *There was a burned out vehicle on it so it obviously went somewhere.* I followed it up the hill and it ended up at a disused quarry pit, so going the other way would definitely have brought us out on a proper road eventually. That might have been a better bet than our footpath.
> 
> back to the mtl. if the burnt out vehicle was the 4x4 then you were returning via the 'yellow brick road', that means you must have carried / gingerly pushed your bikes a bit to cross onto the yellow brick road. it's a horrible thing isn't it?


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2009)

shauncollier said:


> any idea where you went? miles completed, hours on the bikes? can you plot it out on summat like bikehike? just coz i'm nosey.


I would have said 'Ask Martin' but he discovered when we got back to Hebden Bridge that he had somehow hit the 'stop' button on his GPS so I don't think that he has an accurate tracklog.

We followed the MTL pretty accurately round to Deerplay, then we must have done at least 2 or 3 kms meandering about on the moor. After we had backtracked to the Pike, we followed the Burnley Way down the hillside until we met that grass road. We then went east along that until we realised that it fizzled out, so we retraced to the Burnley Way again and followed it down Dean Scout, then turned right along the edge of the woods and finally came out under the railway line on the Todmorden side of the Fish Ponds. After that we bombed down the A646 through Tod, and in the direction of Callis, before turning for Mankinholes and joining the towpath for the final stretch.

I've done a quick check on Memory Map and I reckon we'd done about 48 kms by the time we reached the A646, 10 kms along that and then another 2 kms on the towpath. About 60 kms in total with about 75% of it offroad.


shauncollier said:


> back to the mtl. if the burnt out vehicle was the 4x4 then you were returning via the 'yellow brick road', that means you must have carried / gingerly pushed your bikes a bit to cross onto the yellow brick road. it's a horrible thing isn't it?


I think I know where that 'road' is but we didn't go up it that far so perhaps it was another burned out vehicle? It looked like it might have been a 4x4, or was it a pickup truck...?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

pick up truck 4x4 yeah that's the one. was there for ages before being burned out. it actually connects with the mtl about half mile before the memorial stone. the farmers lock the gates now across the cattle grids. you used to be able to turn left at the crown point junction and miss out that crappy half mile section of the mtl. i can see how it was easy to follow the bridleway sign at the gates, instead of turning left. local knowledge i suppose. just like that weird bit where you live. on the map it's not very easy to follow as it gets caught up in the jumble of other green lines. but on the ground is reasonably easy to follow due to the signs (mind you i did go wrong there once for half mile (when i met trio and red) due to a 'missing' blue disc). still a decent mileage and day out. must have been a massive relief when you realized you knew where you were?


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

We crossed the A671, turned left then turned right too soon. 

We followed the wrong track up the hill following the wall. Through a gate/ hole in the wall and followed a muddy track to the left of the wall. 

We went further and further off route to the top of Theively Pike / the trig point. 
To get down (After a bit of wondering around) we climbed over a style near the trig point and headed down a footpath that would have eventually re-joined the MTL where it crosses the railway line if we had followed it all the way down. 

Just before rejoining the MTL we turned right at the foot of the Theiverly scout cliffs and followed this path to the road. 

The paths down were almost rideable. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of riders who could of ridden all the way down. However, I decided I didn't fancy risking going arse over tit and walked a few of the steaper bits.


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2009)

Shaun. We always knew where we were. We just wern't sure how to get to where we wanted to end up.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

yeah, there is an amazing illegal path that comes out near the ram inn. takes some serious concentration to get down it in one piece as it's got handrails and slippy wood steps. probably the nearest to south shore we have round our way. yeah i do know where you guys ended up. it's a pity you were too tired and worried to enjoy!! if you fancy a short blast gimme a hollow.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Sep 2009)

red,

not criticizing, just nosey. where you were are my local trails, i love em and think they are some of the best on the mtl (apart from the mile of a thousand gates).


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