# Opinions on Downtube/Friction shifters



## Xiorell (24 May 2011)

Just wondering what people think of them?

I've seen a few bikes that looked really nice untill I see friction operated shifters and then somehow they seem really... ancient.
What with all the indexed shifters out there it seems like a step backward. Particually on roade/race bikes.



Do any of you still use friction shift? Maybe some of you changed from index to friction? Do you people find it a pain in the arse or somewhat pleasing?


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## henshaw11 (24 May 2011)

You get the equivalent on many recumbents, as bar-end shifters (as cyclocross bikes have - or used to have, at least - I put them on my road bike years ago 'cos I couldn't get on with the downtube jobbies).
The right hand shifter's still indexed, tho'

The handy thing about the non-indexed left hand shifter is it allows you to trim the mech position - it's one less bit of indexing to setup.


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## Rouge Penguin (24 May 2011)

And some old bikes that have been restored, wouldn't be right without them.


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## PpPete (24 May 2011)

I still use downtube shifters on the tandem. It is indexed, but I used it in friction mode the other day as we were having some "issues" with the drive train.


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## al-fresco (24 May 2011)

My bike has one indexed and one friction shifter - works for me.


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## piedwagtail91 (24 May 2011)

i grew up with dt levers and 5 or 6 blocks so i don't have a problem with them.i was just given a 7 speed dawes galaxy, it had bar end controls on which i don't like so it got 7 speed dt levers. this allowed me to put lo pro bars on which i prefer to drops. it made a refreshing change to ride. the 10 speed ergos would be on e bay if campag made 10 speed dt levers.


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## lilolee (24 May 2011)

Rouge Penguin said:


> And some old bikes that have been restored, wouldn't be right without them.



Which is what I have. You have to plan a little bit more in advanced, and it is definitely less convenient that brake/shifters.


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## guitarpete247 (24 May 2011)

My bike is old (like me I suppose) bought in '82 and kept as an 80's bike. Friction shifters but now on the stem not the dt. I have no problems with them there or as they used to be on the dt or on the bars of my MTB (which is also old '88 model 1 indexed 1 friction). 

I reckon that one day I'll have to upgrade to some thing newer and go for fully indexed but not for a while or when I come up on the lottery




.


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## david k (24 May 2011)

Xiorell said:


> Just wondering what people think of them?
> 
> I've seen a few bikes that looked really nice untill I see friction operated shifters and then somehow they seem really... ancient.
> What with all the indexed shifters out there it seems like a step backward. Particually on roade/race bikes.
> ...





help me whats the difference?


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## palinurus (24 May 2011)

My last commuter had friction shifters, non-indexed ones. And an 8-speed cassette, strange combination- the bike was put together based on what bits I had rather than what bits I would've liked.

I didn't find it a pain in the arse at all, actually I liked it very much. I'd try to do perfect gear changes- really fast and right into gear with no trimming. Even better was going from the big ring to the small while dropping a couple of gears on the cassette simultaneously. Very simple to maintain of course, gear adjustment never required.


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## Xiorell (24 May 2011)

palinurus said:


> Very simple to maintain of course, gear adjustment never required.





I will say, this is something that did strike me as being a big plus point


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## chillyuk (24 May 2011)

After 45 years of using DT friction levers they are totally second nature to me. It doesn't take long to work out how much to move the lever to select a gear, and smooth clean changes are no problem at all. It also means that all this nonsense about will such and such work with my setup doesn't arise. Having said that the road bike I now ride has DT indexed shifters with no friction option. That's no problem either.


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## palinurus (24 May 2011)

Xiorell said:


> I will say, this is something that did strike me as being a big plus point



Maybe, although I have two bikes with different STI setups and another with indexed bar-end shifters and they require little attention in practice.


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## palinurus (24 May 2011)

But for ordinary use they work perfectly well. One considerable advantage is they are very cheap compared to combined brake/gear setups. All parts are of course user-serviceable.


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## pubrunner (24 May 2011)

I like downtube shifters; but they ain't all the same.

I frequently read that *Simplex* changers are in a class of their own - something that I took with a pinch of salt.

Well, I've now got them on a bike and they *are *superb !


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## asterix (25 May 2011)

Used to use DT shifters, non-indexed.

It was a huge improvement over having to get off and flip the back wheel!

But seriously once you are accustomed to them they are fine. Surprisingly it is possibly to move a good lever precisely the right amount for the shift which is very satisfying. When I modernised to a 9-speed block though, the STI levers came too.

I'd happily ride a bike with them again although for competitive riding I am sure they put you at a disadvantage over STI.


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## PpPete (25 May 2011)

I always had in mind, when I converted my current bike from DT to STI, that I could carry a pair of DT levers as spares on long tours in case of STI malfunction, they weigh very little.

I won't have the same option on N+1... because it will have the cable guides on the headtube in the modern fashion rather than the bosses on the downtube... although the thought did occur that it might be possible _in extremis_ to mount a band-on friction shifter on the spacers below the stem, or on the stem itself.


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## tyred (25 May 2011)

Frcition DT shifters on both my geared road bikes (Puegeot and Aerospace). I don't see any problems with them in normal riding. You quickly get the hang of it (I was coming from an indexed MTB) and they will work with anything and are childs play to set up. Sure it can be inconvenient to reach down to change gear at times but you learn to ride to anticipate the need for a gear change and there is a certain pleasure in doing "clean" gear changes by skill.

Having said that, I prefer my bikes to have no gears at all which is even simpler


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## youngoldbloke (25 May 2011)

DT levers on the winter bike, Ergo on the summer. Only problem I have is reaching for the down tube levers when riding the summer bike, after riding the other one, and vice versa ......
New bikes offered for sale with friction shifters are generally going to be at the lower end of the price range, with componentry to match. Avoid if possible. Older bikes are a different matter - my winter bike is 1992 vintage. There was a recent thread about when combined brake/gear shifters were introduced.


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## Angelfishsolo (25 May 2011)

Friction shifters move the mech until it finds a gear or until you stop pushing / pulling ( a little slower then indexed system but great if your cable has stretched. An indexed system moves a given amount with one push. If indexing is out this means the chain can end up 1/in the wrong gear or 2/ between gears. 



david k said:


> help me whats the difference?


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## Mad at urage (25 May 2011)

Early indexed levers used to be able to switch to friction (is this option still available now?): This was very useful for commuting as it gave a fallback option if things stop working on a mucky winter's evening!


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## david k (25 May 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Friction shifters move the mech until it finds a gear or until you stop pushing / pulling ( a little slower then indexed system but great if your cable has stretched. An indexed system moves a given amount with one push. If indexing is out this means the chain can end up 1/in the wrong gear or 2/ between gears.



thanks, i guessed that was it but wasnt sure, thanks again


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## Angelfishsolo (25 May 2011)

Pleasure. The only stupid question is the one that is not asked 


david k said:


> thanks, i guessed that was it but wasnt sure, thanks again


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## Rhythm Thief (25 May 2011)

I prefer friction shifters. My Dawes' bar end shifters are switchable and whenever I replace the cables I set up the indexing. Then, when it goes out or I get fed up with the "drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ... " noise from the chain, I switch it over to friction and there it stays until I next replace the cables.


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## boydj (25 May 2011)

I have these bar-end shifters on my commuter - http://www.sjscycles...trol-prod21014/ . The bike started off with Campag 8-speed ergo levers, but it was getting harder to get replacement cogs and the original wheels were due for replacement as well. I started by replacing the shifters and used the Shimano wheels with an 8-speed cassette from my previous commuter that I was 'retiring' - it had Sora shifters which were also not worth re-using. The next cassette that went on was 9-speed shimano, and the bike now has a 10-speed Campag cassette on new wheels, since they are compatible and switchable with the wheels on my 'good' bike.

It took no time at all to get used to friction shifters again and the flexibility it gives you in terms of wheel/cassette combination and a quick swap is great for a daily commuter.


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## fossyant (25 May 2011)

Both my road bikes have indexed down tube shifters. Period kit. Faster than STI


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## Davidc (25 May 2011)

Like everyone else I used to ride with DT friction shifters. Didn't take long on any bike learning to be able to select a gear directly more accurately than indexed systems do.

A fraction of a second more anticipation of gear changes was needed. Never a chain noise from the indexing not being quite right. The only setting up for gears was the end stops. I've tried bar-end friction shifters but don't like them quite as much as the DT ones, no problems though using them with a Shimano 8 speed mech. If the STIs break I'll probably change to bar end friction as replacement STIs are ridiculously expensive and the bar end ones are in a drawer ready to go on.

I have STIs on one bike and quick-fire on the other, but would be perfectly happy to change back to friction any time.


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## swee'pea99 (26 May 2011)

I've only ever used DT shifters - they work fine for me, but then they're what I grew up with. I've only once in 40+ years' cycling regretted it - going head to head with another feller along Upper Street, and he pipped me due to that fractional delay in shifting thru' having to move hand from bars to shifter and back (he had STIs). Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...


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## fossyant (26 May 2011)

I find my indexed shifters much quicker when changing chain rings and rear sprockets at the same time - I can do both at the same time with one hand. 

One thing it does make you do is think about that hill you are just about to hit. Been with far too many folk that don't know when to change, and are faffing and clanking about with their STI/ERGO just because you can be a bit lazy changing - crunch clatter clatter, when I've already gone click click. 

Got STI on the MTB and love it though - that's been working perfectly for over 15 years, so panic about longevity isn't a problem.


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## evilclive (26 May 2011)

piedwagtail91 said:


> i grew up with dt levers and 5 or 6 blocks so i don't have a problem with them.i was just given a 7 speed dawes galaxy, it had bar end controls on which i don't like so it got 7 speed dt levers. this allowed me to put lo pro bars on which i prefer to drops. it made a refreshing change to ride. the 10 speed ergos would be on e bay if campag made 10 speed dt levers.



Can't you put bar ends on lo-pro bars? That's one of the big reasons they're still made - used on TT bikes sticking out the front, though that is on the tri bars.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Aug 2021)

Old thread but who still uses levers instead of STI? I use bar end shifters in friction mode front and rear on 9 speed on recumbent. On road bike I have indexed rear on 10 speed.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Me, both classic road bikes are 8 speed SIS down tube shifters, Shimano 600 and Dura Ace. Just works. The DA is still on the original cables from 30 years ago - multi thread cables - lovely to look at, fully stainless. Crisp shifts all the time.


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## Peugeotrider (16 Aug 2021)

pubrunner said:


> I like downtube shifters; but they ain't all the same.
> 
> I frequently read that *Simplex* changers are in a class of their own - something that I took with a pinch of salt.
> 
> Well, I've now got them on a bike and they *are *superb !


simplex dt shifters are probably the best ones ever made.
I had them on a peugeot many years ago,smooth as butter.
I still have an old peugeot on simplex shifters and its my no1 bike


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2021)

Peugeotrider said:


> simplex dt shifters are probably the best ones ever made.
> I had them on a peugeot many years ago,smooth as butter.
> I still have an old peugeot on simplex shifters and its my no1 bike



Nah Dura Ace SIS - I am biased. Lovely to use.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Aug 2021)

I run dura ace, silky smooth and just work.


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## MichaelW2 (16 Aug 2021)

Suntour with the ratchet microclicks was probably peak downtube shifter.


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## tyred (16 Aug 2021)

All but one of my derailleur bikes have friction shifters. Cheap, easy to set up, no additional maintenance required and I have never found them difficult to use.

I upgraded an old MTB to 8 speed cassette several years ago and I still use the original 6 speed shifters - I just switched them to friction mode and it works fine so never bothered to buy the correct shifters.


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## aj101 (16 Aug 2021)

Easier to change the cables, more reliable on long tours, and won't cause you a huge amount of problems on an all dayer if the rear mech gets gunked up.


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## Saluki (16 Aug 2021)

My D.B. (dronfield) has friction shifters. Simplex ones, each of which are an elegant, thing of beauty. It’s fine and I love it. My other bikes have STI shifters.
It was suggested, by some blasphemous person, that I ‘updated’ my Dronfield. I no longer have anything to do with that person.


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## aj101 (16 Aug 2021)

Just wondering has anyone tried a friction downtube shifter with a Campag 13 speed Ektar rear setup? I mean, in theory it will work, right?!


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## Sharky (16 Aug 2021)

pubrunner said:


> I like downtube shifters; but they ain't all the same.
> 
> I frequently read that *Simplex* changers are in a class of their own - something that I took with a pinch of salt.
> 
> Well, I've now got them on a bike and they *are *superb !


My Simplex DT levers were probably from an early model and not the ones you are referring to.
Mine were the white nylon/plastic levers that were popular at the time. Arrived at the start of a 25 in a hurry and in the wrong gear. Tried to change down, but the lever snapped and went into the palm of my hand. Had to do the whole of the 25 in top gear (104")! Not a pleasant experience.


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## Johnsco (25 Aug 2021)

I have Suntour DT friction shifters on my 1960s Carlton.
Never used anything else.
What you don't have, you don't miss.


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## freiston (31 Aug 2021)

I use bar-end shifters in friction mode, 3x9 setup. I had 5 speed (2x5) bikes with D/T friction shifters from the 70s up until the late 90s when I bought a nightmare of a rigid mtb bike with 3x7 indexed trigger shifters (Shimano SiS). I eventually replaced that bike with my current (3x9) bike in 2014.


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## biggs682 (31 Aug 2021)

Work fine for me


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## Paulus (31 Aug 2021)

I have DT levers on several of my old bikes, and recently converted my 1990's Galaxy back to indexed levers from STI's that I upgraded to some 10 years ago.
I really find DT levers easy to use, as l have used them for 50+ years.
I still have several more modern bikes with STI and Campag. ergo shifters though.


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## T4tomo (31 Aug 2021)

I have DT friction on my '87 Peugeot, and Suntour barcon ratchet/friction on my '80 Holdsworth and a microshift indexed barcon on my more modern Gravel bike, and mechanical Ultegra on the posh road bike. I find the barcons marginally easier to use than DT as less (none if on the drops) hand movement is required. The Suntours, for 40+ yr old technology are particularly impressive.

I'm not sure integrated brake/gear levers have moved things on from barcons that much, they are marginally more convenient to use, but a lot more expensive and more complex and hence more things to go wrong or get marginally out of adjustment, particularly once you get to 10/11/12 speed.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Aug 2021)

Friction shift for the win


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## Punkawallah (10 Sep 2021)

Down tube friction shifters on the touring and road bikes. Never got away with the bar end shifter.
I can see the appeal of grip shifters for the ‘occasional’ rider, and indexed shifters for their ‘fire & forget’ action. At a push, I can even see the usefulness of the combined brake/gear lever. If I must. Just hate having to work on them :-)


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2021)

T4tomo said:


> I have DT friction on my '87 Peugeot, and Suntour barcon ratchet/friction on my '80 Holdsworth and a microshift indexed barcon on my more modern Gravel bike, and mechanical Ultegra on the posh road bike. I find the barcons marginally easier to use than DT as less (none if on the drops) hand movement is required. The Suntours, for 40+ yr old technology are particularly impressive.
> 
> I'm not sure integrated brake/gear levers have moved things on from barcons that much, they are marginally more convenient to use, but a lot more expensive and more complex and hence more things to go wrong or get marginally out of adjustment, particularly once you get to 10/11/12 speed.



To be honest, 'brifters' are better if you are sprinting as you can access the gears mid sprint, but ideally I guess most pro's don't as they will already have the gears selected. I didn't 'upgrade' my Dura Ace to STI as I didn't like the early versions with an additional cable poking out the side, I'd got lovely neat 'aero' brake levers, and the down tube shifters never broke.


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## a.twiddler (10 Sep 2021)

In my experience, when STIs work, they work well, and have had them on a couple of bikes. I particularly like flat bar trigger shifters. Back in the mists of time I had no problems with down tube friction shifters either, it was just what you had.

Since becoming a recumbentist I have developed a new appreciation of friction shifters. It does seem that for most riders it is easy to be in the thrall of manufacturers' hype when friction shifting can do the job quite well. Although indexing has been around since the early days of hub gears the application of it to multi gear derailleur systems with even the same manufacturer using different standards for road and mountain bikes, and different manufacturers using different standards between themselves has made life unnecessarily complicated.

I have gone from thumb shifters (non indexed) on my Linear to bar ends and it has been so simple to set up and use. I have a bit of a mixture actually with a non indexed Sun Tour Bar Con for the rear derailleur, Sturmey indexed bar end for the SRAM hub gear (originally had a non indexed thumbshifter which I did not feel comfortable with in this application -you need positive stops with a hub gear) and a friction thumb shifter for the front double. To say that I've learnt a lot about gear shifters in the time I've had it would be an understatement. 

Much as I like the 9 speed Sora brifters on my Revolution Country Explorer (the ones with the mouse ear changers) if something unrepairable happened to them tomorrow I would go for non indexed bar end shifters without too many qualms.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Sep 2021)

I have DT friction shifters on my bike that I never ride. They are fine. There's an 8 speed cassette on the back. They take me a while to get used to when I ride it, or at least they would if I did, but I don't. You just change gear, and if you haven't hit it right it chatters, so you adjust it a bit. After a while you get the knack and get it right most of the time.

I could imagine they might get a bit tricky with a more crowded cassette, 10S maybe. Or maybe they would be fine, I don't know.

For the front mech I'd say they are preferable to brifters.


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## Mburton1993 (10 Sep 2021)

I have a single vintage Simplex Prestige friction shifter on mine that I got on eBay for a tenner. I like it, unindexed, easy to set up and can make micro-adjustments on the move.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Sep 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I have DT friction shifters on my bike that I never ride. They are fine. There's an 8 speed cassette on the back. They take me a while to get used to when I ride it, or at least they would if I did, but I don't. You just change gear, and if you haven't hit it right it chatters, so you adjust it a bit. After a while you get the knack and get it right most of the time.
> 
> I could imagine they might get a bit tricky with a more crowded cassette, 10S maybe. Or maybe they would be fine, I don't know.
> 
> For the front mech I'd say they are preferable to brifters.



Friction shift still works great at 9 speed.


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## Archie_tect (10 Sep 2021)

My Dawes has downtube friction shifters... love being able to do both levers at the same time with the 52/39 and [I think but not sure unless I check] 11-14-18-24-32 rear. Spend most of my time on 39/18. Life is so much simpler being able to feel the changes rather than the 105 STIs which I love but I'm constantly going up and down to suit the gradient and double shifting isn't as smooth!


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## avecReynolds531 (10 Sep 2021)

Suntour dt levers are fine: they work really well- well enough to retire from Campagnolo Ergolevers and 10+ speed cassettes.

Suntour derailleurs, particularly the Cyclone family, are well worth trying or returning to: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/suntour_cyclone_derailleur_5902_2nd_style.html


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## boydj (10 Sep 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Friction shift still works great at 9 speed.



Not only that, but they make swapping wheels easy when they have different speed cassettes in case of emergencies - e.g. a commuter coming out to a puncture when heading for the office.


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## Bromptonaut (13 Sep 2021)

avecReynolds531 said:


> Suntour derailleurs, particularly the Cyclone family, are well worth trying or returning to: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/suntour_cyclone_derailleur_5902_2nd_style.html



I've got Cyclone gears on my Dawes Londoner (Galaxy). For a while they had a version with a long arm for touring and an open cage so the chain could be removed from the arm without dismantling. Unfortunately some found it flexed too much and they were withdrawn.


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## GuyBoden (15 Sep 2021)

Suntour Power shifters are great friction shifters, but I've never seen any with braze on fittings. 

My Shimano 600 work ok, for braze on, but Simplex Retrofriction are probably the best friction shifter IMO.

Suntour Power Shifter band-on.




Simplex Retrofriction, braze on.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Sep 2021)

Swapped in a 10 speed wheel on my friction shift last night. Nice and easy with no buggering about with the gear setup.


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## GuyBoden (30 Sep 2021)

I'm giving these newfangled "Dia Compe Silver Shifters" a try on my bike. The price has gone up this year like most cycling gear.

They have a friction ratchet mechanism similar to the old Suntour Power shifters, but this design is more compact. Early days yet, but they seem to be working well and are fine working with a 9 speed cassette.

http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/silver-w-shift-lever/


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## boydj (30 Sep 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> I'm giving these newfangled "Dia Compe Silver Shifters" a try on my bike. The price has gone up this year like most cycling gear.
> 
> They have a friction ratchet mechanism similar to the old Suntour Power shifters, but this design is more compact. Early days yet, but they seem to be working well and are fine working with a 9 speed cassette.
> 
> ...



I had the bar-end version of these on a commuter bike. Easy to use and reliable.


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## tyred (30 Sep 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> I'm giving these newfangled "Dia Compe Silver Shifters" a try on my bike. The price has gone up this year like most cycling gear.
> 
> They have a friction ratchet mechanism similar to the old Suntour Power shifters, but this design is more compact. Early days yet, but they seem to be working well and are fine working with a 9 speed cassette.
> 
> ...


They look beautiful. If I wasn't so tight I'd buy a set for my Peugeot!


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## GuyBoden (21 Oct 2021)

My fav Suntour Power Shifters look like they can be used as braze on, as can be seen in the diagram below, but the braze on boss doesn't seem to fit on my 1980's road bike. Has anyone used these as braze on?

Suntour Power Shifter diagram.







These Suntour Symmetrical are interesting too:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-...tour-symmetric-reassembly-challenge-pics.html


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## T4tomo (21 Oct 2021)

what are you saying? you already have bosses (i.e equiv of part 20) brazed onto a bike, but your equivalent of 17 doesn't thread into it? in which case can you not use the bolts that were securing the original shifters?


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## GuyBoden (21 Oct 2021)

T4tomo said:


> what are you saying? you already have bosses (i.e equiv of part 20) brazed onto a bike, but your equivalent of 17 doesn't thread into it? in which case can you not use the bolts that were securing the original shifters?


Apparently, after a bit of googling, I find that not all braze on bosses for shifters are the same. It's not only bolts.


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## T4tomo (21 Oct 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> Apparently, after a bit of googling, I find that not all braze on bosses for shifters are the same. It's not only bolts.


ah, that's annoying although not surprising I guess, although more fittings were standard and interchangeable back that. You cant simply use the band on, as the existing bosses would get in the way. You could use a pair of Suntour bar cons power shifters - I can vouch for the fact that they work superbly. you can get cable guides that attach to the bosses


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## Dale 1956 (21 Oct 2021)

Xiorell said:


> Just wondering what people think of them?
> 
> I've seen a few bikes that looked really nice untill I see friction operated shifters and then somehow they seem really... ancient.
> What with all the indexed shifters out there it seems like a step backward. Particually on roade/race bikes.
> ...


I still use them my self they are friction shifters only


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## Fredo76 (28 Oct 2021)

I'm used to friction shifters, being a geezer. They work fine for me, and they're definitely not as finicky to set up. But on the down tube, they are now a heroic reach, and I'm no hero, so they're on the stem, just like a Schwinn Varsity.

No matter!


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## T4tomo (29 Oct 2021)

Fredo76 said:


> I'm used to friction shifters, being a geezer. They work fine for me, and they're definitely not as finicky to set up. But on the down tube, they are now a heroic reach, and I'm no hero, so they're on the stem, just like a Schwinn Varsity.
> 
> No matter!
> 
> View attachment 615494


perfect, one to impale each testicle on!


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## Johnsco (30 Oct 2021)

I'm now age 74 and I've never used anything other than Suntour friction shifters on the downtube.
Same Carlton since approx 1966.
Easy to set up and easy to use.


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## FrothNinja (30 Oct 2021)

Adjusted the friction gears on my Centurion yesterday, now bob on in spite of a bit of float. Its just a bog standard el-cheapo Triplex set and single shifter. Think I will have to look at changing the cable soon. Bike wouldn't be right without reaching down to shift. Requires a bit of finesse to use friction rather than indexed gears.


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