# Plumbing leaks..... grrrrr!



## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

Glanced up and spotted a damp patch on the kitchen ceiling. Upstairs to the bathroom and as I suspected it's the infamous Geberit concealed cistern bottom seal leak, meaning water dribbles out of the flush pipe when you flush. I've already had this in the downstairs loo and I found it too late meaning I had to replace half the soggy floor, but the upside is that I must have bought spare seals and circlips at that time as there was one of each waiting on top of the leaking cistern.

Now I'll have to unbolt and remove the pan from the wall and try to replace the seal from below the cistern. I might have to remove the entire front off the cistern case, which is bad news when we're about to market the house. Grrrrrr!


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## ColinJ (5 Apr 2020)

Bad luck!

My bath has started leaking recently. It is a bloody big roll-top type and whoever fitted it did a bodge job. The waste pipe from it sticks so far out of the bottom that it would rest on the tiled floor so they merely cut a hole in one of the tiles and scooped out some of the floorboards below! What they didn't seem to factor in is that the weight of a bath full of water plus a person/people (chance would be a fine thing!) is high enough to cause the bottom of the bath to sag slightly. That has put enough pressure on the waste pipe to eventually break the seal round the plughole. I don't use the bath, preferring the wonderful big walk-in shower, but my sister has baths when she is here. Last time I was in the kitchen when she pulled the plug out of the bath and a trickle of water came down through the kitchen ceiling. 

There won't be any guests until after the Covid crisis is over so there is no urgency in fixing the problem. I'll stick to my showers, but will have to remember to sort the bath out before guest visits start up again!


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## gbb (5 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Bad luck!
> 
> My bath has started leaking recently. It is a bloody big roll-top type and whoever fitted it did a bodge job. The waste pipe from it sticks so far out of the bottom that it would rest on the tiled floor so they merely cut a hole in one of the tiles and scooped out some of the floorboards below! What they didn't seem to factor in is that the weight of a bath full of water plus a person/people (chance would be a fine thing!) is high enough to cause the bottom of the bath to sag slightly. That has put enough pressure on the waste pipe to eventually break the seal round the plughole. I don't use the bath, preferring the wonderful big walk-in shower, but my sister has baths when she is here. Last time I was in the kitchen when she pulled the plug out of the bath and a trickle of water came down through the kitchen ceiling.
> 
> There won't be any guests until after the Covid crisis is over so there is no urgency in fixing the problem. I'll stick to my showers, but will have to remember to sort the bath out before guest visits start up again!


We had the same scenario, removed a section of floorboard to accept the plumbing and keep the bath at a sensi le level but looking at the support legs supplied with the bath, its minimal , so I really beefed it all up, put an extra set of support legs on from the old bath plus laid timber between the bath and floorboards.
And talking to a plumber when installing, I asked how to prevent leaks in the future....silicone, silicone everything, silicone wherever you can, silicone is your friend.


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## Beebo (5 Apr 2020)

You can claim on your insurance if you wish.


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## Globalti (5 Apr 2020)

Yebbut the excess!


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## screenman (5 Apr 2020)

Globalti said:


> Yebbut the excess!



Along with a premium increase next year.


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## slowmotion (5 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Along with a premium increase next year.


Yup. They'll stiff you.


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## ColinJ (5 Apr 2020)

gbb said:


> We had the same scenario, removed a section of floorboard to accept the plumbing and keep the bath at a sensible level but looking at the support legs supplied with the bath, its minimal , so I really beefed it all up, put an extra set of support legs on from the old bath plus laid timber between the bath and floorboards.
> And talking to a plumber when installing, I asked how to prevent leaks in the future....silicone, silicone everything, silicone wherever you can, silicone is your friend.


That's the other bodge... 

The bathroom floor joists are inadequate so the floor flexes slightly when anybody walks across it but the previous owners tiled it regardless. The grout between the tiles in the middle section of the floor is breaking up now so I have a bathroom floor which isn't waterproof! I have to be careful not to splosh water out of the shower and bath users also have to watch out.

It would be better to give up on the tiles and put a vinyl floor down but I might experiment with flexible grout first and see if that can cope with the flexing of the floor.


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## Globalti (13 Apr 2020)

No Colin, it will fail. You can get some quite nice vinyls, which are soft and warm underfoot and don't smell of vinyl. It's definitely a good choice for bathrooms.


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## delb0y (13 Apr 2020)

I also found a cistern leak yesterday and an ugly damp patch on the hall ceiling. Offending pipe has been isolated but it looks like a new connector will be needed - and probably one of those tap wrench thingies to fit it. Then paint the hall ceiling. Sigh.


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## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

Globalti said:


> No Colin, it will fail. You can get some quite nice vinyls, which are soft and warm underfoot and don't smell of vinyl. It's definitely a good choice for bathrooms.


I think you are right! My sister landlady wants to go the vinyl route anyway.

There is potentially a complication, which is that the floor isn't completely flat. Those wimpish joists have sagged/twisted*** during the 140 year history of the house (assuming that they are original). I'm thinking that vinyl would need a flatter surface than that to lie on.





*** Many of the houses round here have been subject to significant subsidence. This house leans so much that you can feel that you are walking uphill or downhill as you cross this room!

Some friends used to live in a flat above the cafe opposite Tod park. That building is at a crazy angle! They invited me round for a meal. Afterwards they asked if I'd like an apple. I said yes so they tossed one over but it slipped from my hand and fell to the floor. I watched in amusement as it rolled across the room gathering speed until it was trapped in the corner.


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## Globalti (13 Apr 2020)

Go to a pub called The Crooked House near Dudley and the mining subsidence is so bad that a bottle placed on a table will appear to roll uphill!


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## mickle (13 Apr 2020)

gbb said:


> And talking to a plumber when installing, I asked how to prevent leaks in the future....silicone, silicone everything, silicone wherever you can, silicone is your friend.



Nope. Silicone is your enemy. As a jobbing plumber I can tell you that upwards of 80% of the domestic plumbing installations are riddled with bodges. Either through people taking short cuts or through ineptitude. One of the characteristics of most plumbing bodges is that by the time it manifests as a problem the bodger is long gone. A lot of my work is replacing drainage pipery thats been poorly installed, such as pipe ends that haven't been deburred - which leads to blockages. Silicone has its place, around the edges of basins and baths, but really should never be used as waste pipe sealant. I use plumber's mait (slow setting putty) as a sealant between waste fittings, inlet fittings and baths, basins, sinks, cisterns and pans.


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## gbb (13 Apr 2020)

mickle said:


> Nope. Silicone is your enemy. As a jobbing plumber I can tell you that upwards of 80% of the domestic plumbing installations are riddled with bodges. Either through people taking short cuts or through ineptitude. One of the characteristics of most plumbing bodges is that by the time it manifests as a problem the bodger is long gone. A lot of my work is replacing drainage pipery thats been poorly installed, such as pipe ends that haven't been deburred - which leads to blockages. Silicone has its place, around the edges of basins and baths, but really should never be used as waste pipe sealant. I use plumber's mait (slow setting putty) as a sealant between waste fittings, inlet fittings and baths, basins, sinks, cisterns and pans.


Silicone on waste pipes I definitely agree is a no no, but tbf, I've had plenty of success round basin and bath drains etc. What I find is the quality of some plumbing stuff, drains in sinks and baths now, B&Q and the like, is so poor you're lucky to get a seal at all, bloomin rubbish stuff I avoid like the plague now. Good tip re the plumbers mate, sounds a much better option.


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## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

gbb said:


> Good tip re the plumbers mate, sounds a much better option.


Paying a plumber's mate sounds a bit cheaper than paying the plumber him/herself!


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## classic33 (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I think you are right! My sister landlady wants to go the vinyl route anyway.
> 
> There is potentially a complication, which is that the floor isn't completely flat. Those wimpish joists have sagged/twisted*** during the 140 year history of the house (assuming that they are original). I'm thinking that vinyl would need a flatter surface than that to lie on.
> 
> ...


Hardboard sheeting atop the floorboards, then the floor covering.


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## ColinJ (14 Apr 2020)

classic33 said:


> Hardboard sheeting atop the floorboards, then the floor covering.


Those were my thoughts too.

The question now is... try to save landlady/sister some money by doing it myself, or leave it to the professionals and avoid any stress! (Either way, it can wait until the virus is no longer a big problem. I don't want tradesmen coming in just now (if we could even find any still working) and I don't want to go out to buy materials either.


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## classic33 (14 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Those were my thoughts too.
> 
> The question now is... try to save landlady/sister some money by doing it myself, or leave it to the professionals and avoid any stress! (Either way, it can wait until the virus is no longer a big problem. I don't want tradesmen coming in just now (if we could even find any still working) and I don't want to go out to buy materials either.


How big an area needs to be done?


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## ColinJ (14 Apr 2020)

classic33 said:


> How big an area needs to be done?


I don't know exactly - my tape measure is in lockdown! 

(I was in the middle of helping a friend make some raised beds for her allotment and was supposed to go back to finish the job but got locked out with my bag of tools left over there...)

Roughly 8 square metres.


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## classic33 (14 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I don't know exactly - my tape measure is in lockdown!
> 
> (I was in the middle of helping a friend make some raised beds for her allotment and was supposed to go back to finish the job but got locked out with my bag of tools left over there...)
> 
> Roughly 8 square metres.


Well a size 10 is a foot(12 inches), and the outside of your elbow to the finger tip(same arm) is approximately 18 inches.

Buy in and do it yourself, 8' X 4' boards are cheap enough. The labour will be about three times the cost of the boards.


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## ColinJ (14 Apr 2020)

I used a ruler. Bigger than I thought! Approx 12' * 8' 6 which would be annoyingly just over 8' but there a big shower, chimney breast etc to take into account so 3 sheets would do it.


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## Globalti (14 Apr 2020)

When you can get your hardboard Colin, nail it down with ring shank nails closely spaced. They won't work loose although they're a swine to remove if you get another leak and have to lift the floor to repace soggy chipboard. Guess how I know this? A garden spade with plenty of momentum seemed to work pretty well.


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