# Ninja Cyclists / High Viz / lack of lights - your opinions please



## Bonacentral (1 Jun 2017)

Hi, 

I use my lights day and night, bit like a motorbike. I have a flashing PDW 200 or 450 front Smart front light and use a rear Smart R1 on flash even on a lovely day. 

Costs me next to nothing and just seems like sense to me. 

Last night I was driving on a dual carriageway at 11.45PM and passed a couple of tools on road bikes riding 2 abreast. All in black, not a single light between them!!

I constantly see people wearing ridiculous high viz clothes and all the gear - apart from the legal requirement of having adequate lights when conditions dictate. 

Do you have lights and use them or do you think looking like a worker wearing high viz excuses you?

Admittedly I do see more sensible light users than I did a year ago and people using them day or night. 

Unfortunately the majority do seem to be idiots who use no lights whatsoever. 

I don't live in a major city but a large town. What's your experience and opinion?


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## AndyRM (1 Jun 2017)




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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

Jesus wept.


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## CanucksTraveller (1 Jun 2017)




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## Welsh wheels (1 Jun 2017)

AndyRM said:


>


Pass it here when you've finished


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## Milkfloat (1 Jun 2017)




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## vickster (1 Jun 2017)

Well done for not splatting them


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## Bonacentral (1 Jun 2017)

Cool.

Cycling | Drawing | Cats | Killie | Scotland

"...so clever it makes me angry" - jefmcg

*Macho Business Donkey Wrestler*

*Pass it here when you've finished*

*Great opinions - cheers!!!*

*Apologies for offending the regulars on here. Can see you are all chums.*

*It's cool - I now understand cyclists a lot more and the cliques that they enjoy*


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## Welsh wheels (1 Jun 2017)

Perhaps we should discuss a less volatile subject - like whether cyclists should wear helmets or not.


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## vickster (1 Jun 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Perhaps we should discuss a less volatile subject - like whether cyclists should wear helmets or not.


There's a whole section for that  enjoy

https://www.cyclechat.net/forums/helmet-discussions.174/


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## Welsh wheels (1 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> There's a whole thread for that  enjoy


Please no


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## vickster (1 Jun 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Please no


I've added a link, have fun


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Cool.
> 
> Cycling | Drawing | Cats | Killie | Scotland
> 
> ...


Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.


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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

CanucksTraveller said:


> View attachment 354907


That's a TMN to @AndyRM


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## Bonacentral (1 Jun 2017)

I see that you did that, thanks, helpful

"...so clever it makes me angry" - jefmcg


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> I see that you did that, thanks, helpful
> 
> "...so clever it makes me angry" - jefmcg


To be fair, the thing that she wrote that about was farking clever, even for me.


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## Bonacentral (1 Jun 2017)

Hahahha - got me gone from this site!! Cheers guys

Should I whinge and complain of just let people know that it's a bit of an insular site....

Hmm


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## AndyRM (1 Jun 2017)

Poor flounce.

3/10.


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)




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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> View attachment 354911


Yup. Hold on to your sleeves.


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)

The title should have been more honest - "Your opinions please, but only ones that I agree with."


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## Shortandcrisp (1 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> The title should have been more honest - "Your opinions please, but only ones that I agree with."



But no one offered an opinion Drago, just a load of bollox to make the OP look ridiculous! This isn't the TT forum.


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## vickster (1 Jun 2017)

I'm sure very few on here think that riding a bike on the road in the dark with no lights is sensible, but the cyclists made that choice and fortunately they were visible enough thanks to street and vehicle lights that no harm presumably came to them 

As for riding with lights during the day, I see no point on a bike. If a driver can't see a large adult atop a bike, a small light in daytime isn't going to make diddly difference imo

motorcycles maybe as they tend to be ridden much faster, also while filtering. Indeed at excessive speeds if the pillocks round here who think the local 40mph dual carriageway is actually a moto GP circuit are anything to go by


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## Tin Pot (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Last night I was driving on a dual carriageway at 11.45PM and passed a couple of tools on road bikes riding 2 abreast. All in black, not a single light between them!!



Miraculously, you saw them...do you have some kind of supervision, or maybe eat a huge amount of carrots - what is your secret?!

I hope you honked your horn and yelled at them to get in single file, the cheek of them!!


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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> or maybe eat a huge amount of carrots


That would actually mean he has radar. The carrot-eyesight thing was a cover for radar.


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> But no one offered an opinion Drago, just a load of bollox to make the OP look ridiculous! This isn't the TT forum.


The take-home message is that it's probably unwise to start a thread on a cycling forum in which you refer to the "majority" of cyclists as "idiots".


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## Tin Pot (1 Jun 2017)

winjim said:


> The take-home message is that it's probably unwise to start a thread on a cycling forum in which you refer to the "majority" of cyclists as "idiots".



Uhoh. That's me fecked then.


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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

Constructive reply:

I've ninja'd twice in the last week. Arrived at my destination to find despite my best efforts, one of my lights was not illuminated. 

Also, if I was out later than expected and found myself a distance from home without lights, I might end up on a DC if there was no better route. If I was there, I'd take primary as your best chance of being seen is to appear in the middle of the headlights.


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## Tin Pot (1 Jun 2017)

@jefmcg I think bona flounced off the site an hour ago as above. I would've thought the response to his/her previous thread would've made 'em think about opening their mind to alternative world views but apparently not.

On another note I've been asked to wear hi viz while running (!) as part of my run clubs "Health and Safety" rules. I foresee a completely black kit next Tuesday evening...


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## mickle (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Hi,
> 
> blah blah ....... I constantly see people ... blah blah


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> This isn't the TT forum.



Why? What happens there? Do they all nod sagely in agreement with every single opening post, and chant melodically like monks with the depth of their consensus?


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## Rooster1 (1 Jun 2017)

I don't suppose one of the riders had a beard per chance?


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## classic33 (1 Jun 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> But no one offered an opinion Drago, just a load of bollox to make the OP look ridiculous! This isn't the TT forum.


There was this one, where opinions were asked for, given and we were told they didn't count.
Bike accident? No win no fee lawyers - any recommendations or avoidance?


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## Welsh wheels (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Cool.
> 
> Cycling | Drawing | Cats | Killie | Scotland
> 
> ...


Perhaps if you hadn't referred to some cyclists as tools and idiots and to ridiculous hi-viz, you might have had more sympathetic responses. Lights during daylight are rarely necessary unless there is very poor visibility. Maybe the tools on road bikes had got lost and stayed out longer than they intended, that's why they didn't have lights.


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## Biff600 (1 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> motorcycles maybe as they tend to be ridden much faster, also while filtering.



Most motorcycles don't have the facility to turn off the lights, they are on regardless.


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## Red17 (1 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> There's a whole section for that  enjoy
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/forums/helmet-discussions.174/



Too scared to go there - have they decided whether helmets should be black or hi viz?


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## Tin Pot (1 Jun 2017)

Red17 said:


> Too scared to go there - have they decided whether helmets should be black or hi viz?



<head implodes>


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## classic33 (1 Jun 2017)

Red17 said:


> Too scared to go there - have they decided whether helmets should be black or hi viz?


Mine's metallic grey.


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## AndyRM (1 Jun 2017)

One of these @classic33?


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## Tin Pot (1 Jun 2017)

AndyRM said:


> One of these @classic33?
> 
> View attachment 354961



More likely to bear the load of a car than plastic hat, I'll give it that.

Wait wait wait!

This will be relegated to the Helmet debate if anyone posts 'helmet' one more time!

...Doh.


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## classic33 (1 Jun 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> More likely to bear the load of a car than plastic hat, I'll give it that.
> 
> Wait wait wait!
> 
> ...


Just put indicators either side of the periscope and everything is covered then.


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## FlyingCyclist (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Hi,
> 
> I use my lights day and night, bit like a motorbike. I have a flashing PDW 200 or 450 front Smart front light and use a rear Smart R1 on flash even on a lovely day.
> Costs me next to nothing and just seems like sense to me.
> ...




I don't see the point of using lights in broad daylight.

I use a hi-vis 'jacket' most of the time when the weather is cool. I've used it while using lights too!

I've always thought cycling on a dual carriageway is illegal, but I guess it isn't. You won't catch me on them, it's too dangerous.

I can't stand flashing lights on a bike, but I may consider using them myself at some point.

I see quite a few cyclists out on the road with no helmet, I wish them luck when they run in to a car (no not really).


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)

Why doesn't someone develop stylish black hi vis and make everyone happy?


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## classic33 (1 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Why doesn't someone develop stylish black hi vis and make everyone happy?


Volvo did, "Life Paint"?


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## Mrs M (1 Jun 2017)

I went out today wearing a fluorescent pink top.
Went back for my front light though (for the road bike) was a bit dull today and too many Magoo's in the village


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## Markymark (1 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> That would actually mean he has radar. The carrot-eyesight thing was a cover for radar.


And interestingly also was used as a way to get more people to eat carrots as there was an abundance when other foods were running low.


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## rivers (1 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Why doesn't someone develop stylish black hi vis and make everyone happy?


It already exists


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Jun 2017)

Mrs M said:


> I went out today wearing a fluorescent pink top.
> Went back for my front light though (for the road bike) was a bit dull today and too many Magoo's in the village



I had to look that up. When I was a kid, 'gone a bit Magoo' meant going a bit mad. But now I know what it REALLY means. Fanks.


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## Mrs M (1 Jun 2017)




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## Markymark (1 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> Interestingly?  so dry, as always.


Hey, I find carrot based trivia extremely interesting.


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## ufkacbln (1 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Why doesn't someone develop stylish black hi vis and make everyone happy?




I have a Foska "Bones"

A mild mannered cycling top during the day:








But at night very reflective







Also fun

I love churches and whenever touring they are a point of interest.

One fine afternoon I stopped to explore and there was a family walking through the Churchyard

Small child asks mum:

"Is that man dead, because you can see all his bones?"


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## ufkacbln (1 Jun 2017)

DavidS said:


> I don't see the point of using lights in broad daylight.



A new fashion mainly form the States for bicycles, but not new for cars.

Daylight Running Lights (DRLs) started out on Volvos and evolvoed into the present systems that are seen today.

The "evidence" suggest that there was a decrease in accidents due to the use of DRLs

Whether you think it is a cynical way of selling additional lighting, there is a difference between daylight and nighttime lights

 This is the Trek/ Bontrager take on the subject

To my mind there are massive technical challenges for lights bright enough for daytime use, and battery longevity that will be suitable for use other than commuting


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)

rivers said:


> It already exists
> View attachment 354979



Hhhmmm. I'm not sure the safety conscious shoplifter look is for me.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Jun 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> @jefmcg On another note I've been asked to wear hi viz while running (!) as part of my run clubs "Health and Safety" rules. I foresee a completely black kit next Tuesday evening...


I got told I couldn't be a volunteer unless I wore a space lemon tabard with reflectives on it. Their loss.


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## Tim Hall (1 Jun 2017)

DavidS said:


> I've always thought cycling on a dual carriageway is illegal, but I guess it isn't. You won't catch me on them, it's too dangerous.



I find this kind of statement amazing. If only there were a document, published by the government, that outlined, or codified, what you can and can't do on the road, or highway. We could have a competition to name it. And then you could go and read it.


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## Drago (1 Jun 2017)

Baggsy the Haynes Book of Highway Rules.


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> On another note I've been asked to wear hi viz while running (!) as part of my run clubs "Health and Safety" rules. I foresee a completely black kit next Tuesday evening...





GrumpyGregry said:


> I got told I couldn't be a volunteer unless I wore a space lemon tabard with reflectives on it. Their loss.


The overabundance of fluorescent running gear can make it very difficult to find a marshall when you turn up to an event. Which is ironic.


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## Bollo (1 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> I find this kind of statement amazing. If only there were a document, published by the government, that outlined, or codified, what you can and can't do on the road, or highway. We could have a competition to name it. And then you could go and read it.


Roady McRoadbook?


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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> I find this kind of statement amazing. If only there were a document, published by the government, that outlined, or codified, what you can and can't do on the road, or highway. We could have a competition to name it. And then you could go and read it.


Or, to make it simpler, rely on observation and induction**.

There is a sign at the entrance to motorways saying you can't cycle there. There is no similar sign at the "entrance" to DC. Hence, you can cycle on them. Unless of course, there is a sign.

** or deduction, I confuse the two.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jun 2017)

Dual carriageway sounds perfect to cycle down at that time of night. Of course you do get the odd driver on them around 11:45pm after they've left the pub.


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Or, to make it simpler, rely on observation and induction**.
> 
> There is a sign at the entrance to motorways saying you can't cycle there. There is no similar sign at the "entrance" to DC. Hence, you can cycle on them. Unless of course, there is a sign.
> 
> ** or deduction, I confuse the two.


The sign just tells you that motorway rules apply, and relies on your own knowledge of those rules via the highway code to inform you that no cycling is permitted. There's not an explicit _no cycling_ sign on every motorway slip road.


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## jefmcg (1 Jun 2017)

winjim said:


> The sign just tells you that motorway rules apply, and relies on your own knowledge of those rules via the highway code to inform you that no cycling is permitted. There's not an explicit _no cycling_ sign on every motorway slip road.


Dammit. Forgetting which country has which signs


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Jun 2017)

We only get 3 days a year of sunlight here in deepest, darkest Scotland: I refuse to put my lights on when it's, erm, light!
I also stopped wearing yellow hi-viz once I saw everybody was wearing it: council workers, BT men, wee kids out for a stroll.
I now have a stylish, reflective, Sam Browne belt that I can put in my panniers and not look like a "cyclist" when at my destination.
Of course cyclists on the path without lights used to annoy me (I don't drive, can't comment as a driver) but I have learned to keep an eye out for them.
Cyclist with over bright, especially flashing, lights in an urban environment think they are safe, but nothing is safe from dozing drivers!
There could be anything unlit on a road, a fox, a cat, another car whose lights have failed, a drunk person crossing oblivious.
Drivers should learn to look out for the unexpected, imo.
Anyway, if the op saw them, they were not invisible.



Drago said:


> Why doesn't someone develop stylish black hi vis and make everyone happy?


My black Altura Night Vision jacket is stylish and had many reflective details, it really stands out in the dark.


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Last night I was driving on a dual carriageway at 11.45PM and passed a couple of tools on road bikes riding 2 abreast. All in black, not a single light between them!!


You clearly saw them, so there's no problem.


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## IainC (1 Jun 2017)

Luckily most drivers seem to be able to see me even when in ninja mode (me that is, not the drivers) except for people in BMW SUVs or Rangerovers, in which case my cloaking device appears to automatically engage...


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## steveindenmark (1 Jun 2017)

Yet again you lot have frightened the Op away.

You are just cruel


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## winjim (1 Jun 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> Yet again you lot have frightened the Op away.
> 
> You are just cruel


Six posters, 17 posts and a time of 21 minutes. Not bad, but I think we can do better. I'm hoping somebody else will come along and start talking rubbish so we can have another crack at it.


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## Lonestar (2 Jun 2017)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Cyclist with over bright, especially flashing, lights in an urban environment think they are safe, but nothing is safe from dozing drivers!
> There could be anything unlit on a road, a fox, a cat, another car whose lights have failed, a (pedestrian) person crossing oblivious.



Foxes are common here in the backstreet and stand out in the road until they decide to leg it.Cyclists with bright or flashing lights don't bother me too much.I will never moan about it.Cars do the same thing with their headlights.(sometimes badly adjusted or not working,though)

Pretty common round here is the amount of vehicles driving round with faulty lights like the old trick of one headlight (tail light/brake light) working and trying to work out what the vehicle is behind.Sometimes can get fooled into thinking it's a motorbike.


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## ufkacbln (2 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Or, to make it simpler, rely on observation and induction**.
> 
> There is a sign at the entrance to motorways saying you can't cycle there. There is no similar sign at the "entrance" to DC. Hence, you can cycle on them. Unless of course, there is a sign.
> 
> ** or deduction, I confuse the two.



Not the only one

Colleague of mine remembered it by:

Induction - you have to be in 
Deduction - you have to decide


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## Phil Fouracre (2 Jun 2017)

Great, just gone up in my estimation - perfect responses to stupid post


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## Drago (2 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> Should I whinge and complain of just let people know that it's a bit of an insular site....
> 
> Hmm


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## Phil Fouracre (2 Jun 2017)

I'm old enough to remember the just William books! 'I'll scream, and scream until I'm sick' !!!


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## mjr (2 Jun 2017)

Bonacentral said:


> I use my lights day and night, bit like a motorbike. I have a flashing PDW 200 or 450 front Smart front light and use a rear Smart R1 on flash even on a lovely day.
> 
> Costs me next to nothing and just seems like sense to me.


It seems pointless to waste money and power on puny lights which will be useless in the brightness of the sun much of the time. If they can't see someone riding a bike in broad daylight, they're not going to see a tiny light.

I also don't get flashing lights: why do you want people to miss you if they blink and find it harder to judge your speed/direction/distance if they don't? Use big steady lights in darkness, especially on higher-speed roads - it just seems to make sense to me.



DavidS said:


> I've always thought cycling on a dual carriageway is illegal, but I guess it isn't. You won't catch me on them, it's too dangerous.


The dual carriageway between Washbrook and almost Capel St Mary in Suffolk is a strange joy to ride. It used to be the A12 until they built the A14 across it, built a new A12 alongside and left the old DC as only a through route for cyclists and walkers. Of course, better counties/countries would probably bollard off one lane for two-way cycling, but it's pretty quiet so still pretty good fun.


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## Lonestar (2 Jun 2017)

I worry about steady lights...I missed one on the CS 3 recently and had to apologise to the cyclist I offended.I don't know how I missed it or where it came from but quite simply I made a mistake.


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## mjr (2 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> I worry about steady lights...I missed one on the CS 3 recently and had to apologise to the cyclist I offended.I don't know how I missed it or where it came from but quite simply I made a mistake.


I've done similar on the A10 last autumn - I failed to identify an oncoming moving cycle light against a backdrop of oncoming moving car lights. I don't think steady/flashing has much to do with that sort of mistake.


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## Alan O (2 Jun 2017)

A friend of mine was wearing a high-viz jacket once, and he fell down a big hole - they're not so safe, are they?


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## Alan O (2 Jun 2017)

DavidS said:


> ... dual carriageway ... You won't catch me on them, it's too dangerous.


There are often times when I reckon the dual carriageways round here are the safest places to cycle. The ones I use have decent wide lanes, some double yellows, are well lit after dark and relatively quiet, and offer good visibility - and I rate them as significantly safer than some of the narrow single carriageways with poorer lighting and parked cars adding to the risk.

Oh, and to comment on unlit cyclists, when I restarted last year I was a bit shocked by the number of young guys I saw on bikes after dark, dressed in the Scouse uniform of black tracksuit, and with no lights. But I soon realised that the local papers aren't full of stories of accidents, so the evidence suggests they're being seen and not being hit (not that I'd recommend it, of course).

Alan


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## Welsh wheels (2 Jun 2017)

Alan O said:


> There are often times when I reckon the dual carriageways round here are the safest places to cycle. The ones I use have decent wide lanes, some double yellows, are well lit after dark and relatively quiet, and offer good visibility - and I rate them as significantly safer than some of the narrow single carriageways with poorer lighting and parked cars adding to the risk.
> 
> Oh, and to comment on unlit cyclists, when I restarted last year I was a bit shocked by the number of young guys I saw on bikes after dark, dressed in the Scouse uniform of black tracksuit, and with no lights. But I soon realised that the local papers aren't full of stories of accidents, so the evidence suggests they're being seen and not being hit (not that I'd recommend it, of course).
> 
> Alan


Agreed. Dual carriageways provide ample room (i.e. a whole lane) for drivers to safely overtake.


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## Alan O (2 Jun 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Agreed. Dual carriageways provide ample room (i.e. a whole lane) for drivers to safely overtake.


*Covfefe*!


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## Pale Rider (2 Jun 2017)

A couple of dual carriageways near me are great to cycle on when it's a bit quieter during the day or later in the evening.

The motor traffic tends to pass in lane two, leaving me with all of a nicely surfaced lane one to play on.


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## Will Spin (2 Jun 2017)

Didn't get out on my bike today due to driving back from relative visiting. I saw a large number of ninja motorists driving black cars in torrential rain with no lights on..rant required.


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## Drago (2 Jun 2017)

I wouldn't say Ronnie Pickering is hard, but when he crosses the street in normal clothes the cars have to look both ways.


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## Lonestar (2 Jun 2017)

Alan O said:


> A friend of mine was wearing a high-viz jacket once, and he fell down a big hole - they're not so safe, are they?



No,holes aren't safe.


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## ufkacbln (3 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> No,holes aren't safe.



Holes should wear HiViz........ and have lights


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## Tanis8472 (3 Jun 2017)

Holes are perfectly safe,it's standing on the edge that isn't


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## Drago (3 Jun 2017)

Does Ronnie Pickering wear hi vis? Is he not hard as nails and completely invulnerable to harm? I rest my case.


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## jefmcg (3 Jun 2017)

AndyRM said:


> Poor flounce.
> 
> 3/10.


You have to give extra points for sticking the dismount.


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## classic33 (3 Jun 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Holes are perfectly safe,it's standing on the edge that isn't


Falling in is worse. What's at the bottom of them?


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## classic33 (3 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> You have to give extra points for sticking the dismount.
> 
> View attachment 355194


On Thursday night(23:13) though, just not posting.


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## Alan O (3 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> Holes should wear HiViz........ and have lights
> 
> View attachment 355192


Funnily enough, the hole my friend fell down was surrounded by proper high-viz safety barriers - he was the one who had just erected them


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jun 2017)

Alan O said:


> Funnily enough, the hole my friend fell down was surrounded by proper high-viz safety barriers - he was the one who had just erected them


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## ufkacbln (3 Jun 2017)

Has to be done:


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## Lonestar (3 Jun 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Holes are perfectly safe,it's standing on the edge that isn't



Or in them.Pothole anyone?


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## ufkacbln (3 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Or in them.Pothole anyone?



THIS is a proper pothole!


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## Tanis8472 (3 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> Falling in is worse. What's at the bottom of them?



I dont fancy finding out


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## Lonestar (3 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> THIS is a proper pothole!



Yeah one of my local roads...Called Cemetery Road had a hole open up recently...It was shut to cars for about three weeks.Not as big as that though.


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## classic33 (3 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Yeah one of my local roads...Called *Cemetery Road* had a hole open up recently...It was shut to cars for about three weeks.Not as big as that though.


Anything in it? Given the street name.


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## Lonestar (4 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> Anything in it? Given the street name.



I did wonder.


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## classic33 (4 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> THIS is a proper pothole!
> 
> View attachment 355333


Someone still didn't see it though.


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## Sandra6 (4 Jun 2017)

During my last days at halfords a customer started berating some young lads for not having lights on their bikes.It was middle of the day and the weather was good, it was highly unlikely they'd have still been out come night fall, but he was adamant they were breaking the law and risking their lives -and his. As a taxi driver he was most put out that he had to look where he was going in case of cyclists being in the road without lights at all times of the day. 
I was quite glad it was my last week so I had a good old argument with him and told him he was wrong. 
He wouldn't have it so in the end I told him just to jog on and try not to kill anyone.


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## classic33 (4 Jun 2017)

Sandra6 said:


> During my last days at halfords a customer started berating some young lads for not having lights on their bikes.It was middle of the day and the weather was good, it was highly unlikely they'd have still been out come night fall, but he was adamant they were breaking the law and risking their lives -and his. As a taxi driver he was most put out that he had to look where he was going in case of cyclists being in the road without lights at all times of the day.
> I was quite glad it was my last week so I had a good old argument with him and told him he was wrong.
> He wouldn't have it so in the end I told him just to jog on and try not to kill anyone.


I wouldn't have said you were saying anything wrong. You were helping other customers out, due to a mis-informed driver.


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## RoubaixCube (4 Jun 2017)

the thing is.... you could be lit up like a christmas tree and some idiot would still hit you. Then the argument wouldnt be that you didnt have lights but because you wasnt wearing a helmet.

a helmet, extra lighting or PPE clothing wont stop drivers who are too busy facebooking or checking emails on their phones to look up and pay attention to whats ahead of them. 

I got my lights, I got my dark jersey/gilet & deuter rucksack with reflective patches, Hell even my shoes and helmet have reflective patches and I ride how I normally ride when riding home. Not texting or looking at my phone, Not with headphones on and listening to music. Not sprinting past red lights. Just cruising the 8 miles to my home.


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## ufkacbln (4 Jun 2017)

Weirdly enough the best visibility aid I have found is the Air Zound.

It is amazing how a few decibels of Air Horn make you more visible to drivers


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## RoubaixCube (4 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> Weirdly enough the best visibility aid I have found is the Air Zound.
> 
> It is amazing how a few decibels of Air Horn make you more visible to drivers



I had one of these... Drivers didnt take much notice, Nor did many pedestrians. With Pedestrians, I have found that they respond to more of a single 'ding' from a standard bicycle bell.

I replaced my air zound with a Knog Oi Classic Bell and people seem to look up and around a lot more providing they hear it. It still doesnt help when it comes to people with headphones though and there are a lot of them in the city where i commute.

The Knog Oi might not be the loudest of bells but its loud enough to be heard by most people within moderate traffic


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## Ben17 (4 Jun 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> I had one of these... Drivers didnt take much notice, Nor did many pedestrians. With Pedestrians, I have found that they respond to more of a single 'ding' from a standard bicycle bell.
> 
> I replaced my air zound with a Knog Oi Classic Bell and people seem to look up and around a lot more providing they hear it. It still doesnt help when it comes to people with headphones though and there are a lot of them in the city where i commute.
> 
> The Knog Oi might not be the loudest of bells but its loud enough to be heard by most people within moderate traffic



Irrelevant to ninja cyclists, but this reminded me - on my canal ride the other day, I found myself behind a pedestrian travelling in my direction. No acknowledgment from repeated dings of my bell, nor increasingly loud shouts of "hello!", "excuse me!" "can I pass please" etc., over a couple of minutes. Luckily the path widened enough for me to eventually pass but I was wondering for a bit just how long this would go on for. Goodness knows how loud he had his music, but he was completely oblivious to what was going on around him.


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## vickster (4 Jun 2017)

Ben17 said:


> Irrelevant to ninja cyclists, but this reminded me - on my canal ride the other day, I found myself behind a pedestrian travelling in my direction. No acknowledgment from repeated dings of my bell, nor increasingly loud shouts of "hello!", "excuse me!" "can I pass please" etc., over a couple of minutes. Luckily the path widened enough for me to eventually pass but I was wondering for a bit just how long this would go on for. Goodness knows how loud he had his music, but he was completely oblivious to what was going on around him.


Or maybe he was deaf?


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## Shut Up Legs (4 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> Weirdly enough the best visibility aid I have found is the Air Zound.
> 
> It is amazing how a few decibels of Air Horn make you more visible to drivers


Yes, I use it too (the Delta one, not the crappy Samui one with the plastic bottle), and I agree: it's effective. I still have a bell for the pedestrians, though.


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## Ben17 (4 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> Or maybe he was deaf?



Perhaps. He definitely had headphones but he could be hard of hearing. Whatever the case though, a little glance around occasionally for situational awareness wouldn't hurt, particularly on a canal path where runners and bikers aren't exactly a rare occurrence.


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## vickster (4 Jun 2017)

Peds have priority, it's down to us cyclists to do the awarensss stuff  not sure a ped needs to on a quiet path

Why didn't you dismount and walk past if he held you up for that long?


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## Ben17 (4 Jun 2017)

I don't debate the priority of pedestrians in this situation, but I do disagree with you about their awareness. Pedestrians, wherever they're walking, should always be aware of other pedestrians, cyclists, cars, whatever, because they cannot guarantee the others will behave in a responsible manner. It's the same way that as a cyclist, I'll still make myself aware of other traffic crossing my path, even if I do have right of way. 

As it happened, I hung back and waited for a safe place to pass slowly when the path widened sufficiently. I was in no hurry, but was just surprised at how oblivious someone can be for such a time.


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## RoubaixCube (4 Jun 2017)

Ben17 said:


> I don't debate the priority of pedestrians in this situation, but I do disagree with you about their awareness. Pedestrians, wherever they're walking, should always be aware of other pedestrians, cyclists, cars, whatever, because they cannot guarantee the others will behave in a responsible manner. It's the same way that as a cyclist, I'll still make myself aware of other traffic crossing my path, even if I do have right of way



This.... I remember seeing a pedestrian across the road from where i work shouting at a bus driver and refusing to move away from the front of the bus so he could carry on with his route because he almost ran her over when she blindly stepped out into a busy road and didnt hear him honk at her..

as for towpaths, Fair enough if you have headphones on, I'll just slow down and get close enough for you to notice me trying to get past, but Ive been down towpaths where there were two women walking two abreast having a chat and refused to yield and let me pass by even when i rang my bell politely as i approached. Her friend turned around and saw me but turned back and carried on with their conversation so i pushed my way past them though, I didnt hit any of them. But the exchange that followed was a rather heated one to say the least.

Pedestrians have priority but its a shared path so consideration from both parties is required otherwise one or the other might find themselves being thrown or pushed into the river one day.

Some people honestly think they can do no wrong.


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## mjr (7 Jun 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> the thing is.... you could be lit up like a christmas tree and some idiot would still hit you. Then the argument wouldnt be that you didnt have lights but because you wasnt wearing a helmet.
> 
> a helmet, extra lighting or PPE clothing wont stop drivers who are too busy facebooking or checking emails on their phones to look up and pay attention to whats ahead of them.


Indeed. And when you've done all the irrelevant things in the evidence-free bits of the highway code, the incompetent driver will simply claim that you swerved in front of them or some other sin. I suspect it's only going to stop once vehicle cameras are widespread.


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## ufkacbln (7 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Indeed. And when you've done all the irrelevant things in the evidence-free bits of the highway code, the incompetent driver will simply claim that you swerved in front of them or some other sin. I suspect it's only going to stop once vehicle cameras are widespread.



Yep...
Happened to me when I was forced off the road at a pedestrian island

Complained and was told I was lucky to be alive what with the fact I had no lights, was all over the road and had pulled out in front of their van


Then forwarded CD with perfectly straight line of travel, lit by the non existent lights

Then the Company's van cutting in at the last minute at the Islnd, name also illuminated by the non existent lights 

Then asked why they were being blatantly lied to by the driver.... he was sacked


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