# The cycling equivalent of a marathon?



## steverob (12 Feb 2020)

*This discussion has been split from the RideLondon2020 thread. Mods.*



Dogtrousers said:


> With cycling it's even less understandable because a 100 mile ride is - from my experience at least - not in the same league as a marathon in terms of physical challenge. It's a piece of piss by comparison.


A little off topic for the RideLondon thread, but this has always been something I've wondered - what in people's opinion *IS* the cycling equivalent to a marathon?

I've never been a keen runner, but did it from time to time; mainly a something to do to keep fit when I couldn't ride, or when I'd foolishly entered myself in an event that I needed to train for; and was capable of running 5K without needing planning and could do a 10K in comfortably under an hour if I gave myself 4-5 weeks to prepare. I've since quit for various reasons, but while I was still running I figured that one day I'd build my fitness up and eventually try a marathon, but that I'd give myself at least 12 months to get to that stage by slowly going up through the distances. And I know plenty of people who were much less fit than me who have done similar, in fact some of them started from zero - e.g. couch to 5K.

Now for cycling, while many on this forum might look at 100 miles as being nothing special, I'll admit that even though I consider myself a keen cyclist, I've only done a century twice and both of those were in "events" - RideLondon 2018 and Tour of Cambridgeshire 2019 (did RL 2015 but only got to do 93 miles, though would have been able to manage the full 100 had the full route been open).

So given the couch to 5K comparision for runners, do you think a member of the general public could build themselves up to a century in less than a year if all they were currently capable of doing currently was a pootle down the shops? Or maybe a fairer question would be to ask someone who was already quite fit, but didn't do any cycling, how far do you think they could manage given 6 months (the time between the ballot draw and the event) to concentrate just on the bike - 100 miles, 120, 150, 200?

Other ways of looking at it - given that a century ride is 3.814 times the marathon distance, do we feel that running is almost four times harder than cycling on the body? If not, what should the multiplier be? e.g. if you think it's five times harder, then the cycling equivalent would be about 130 miles, but only three times harder would mean just under 80 miles.

To be clear, I have no answer to this question myself, I'm just interested in other's opinions.


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## mjr (12 Feb 2020)

I think LEL or PBP would be cycling equivalents of marathons in my mind but vastly more people run marathons than do those and I'd say running is 4-5 times more wearing so I am doubtless overstating it if you work the numbers out rationally. I guess you have to remember that many inactive people think cycling 40 miles is as unfathomably difficult as running 26. Maybe a 10k runner would not think a marathon so impressive?


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## ColinJ (12 Feb 2020)

I have cycled 100+ miles lots of times but the furthest that I ever ran was only about 7 miles. I can't speak about marathon running from experience, but what I do have experience of is throwing myself into the running and cycling from a base of zero.

I 'ran' 2.5 miles back from work and it completely wiped me out the first time that I did it. My first bike ride (as an adult returning to cycling after a 20 year break from it) was to borrow a colleague's bike and ride back to Hebden Bridge from Burnley, a 15 mile route which is undulating and included one big hill (which I had to walk up!). That completely wiped me out too...

So, for a beginner I would say that running a marathon OR cycling 100 miles would be a big challenge. After a few years experience the marathon surely must be much harder unless the 100-miler were incredibly hilly and/or there were a terrible headwind? I am out of condition at the moment but still knocked out a lumpy 100 km (62 mile) ride a few weeks ago. I doubt that I could even run half a mile to catch a bus!


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

steverob said:


> A little off topic for the RideLondon thread, but this has always been something I've wondered - what in people's opinion *IS* the cycling equivalent to a marathon?


It's a good question and possibly worth its own thread.

My experience of the Marathon is it's something you have to do strict disciplined training for a year or so and even then you may not succeed. .

Maybe it's my physiology but when I started cycling again after not riding or doing much exercise for years apart from regular gym workouts, I was capable of a (painful) hundred miler after a few months, just based on weekend rides - no real training, just getting my bum used to the saddle really.

LEL and PBP as @mjr says are good shouts.

I'd hazard a guess at maybe an Everest? Actually I think that may be a bit too hard. I can't see myself ever managing one of those, but if I set my mind to it and_ trained ..._ who knows?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> I think LEL or PBP would be cycling equivalents of marathons in my mind but vastly more people run marathons than do those and I'd say running is 4-5 times more wearing so I am doubtless overstating it if you work the numbers out rationally. I guess you have to remember that many inactive people think cycling 40 miles is as unfathomably difficult as running 26. Maybe a 10k runner would not think a marathon so impressive?



The marathon is nowhere near the equivalent of LEL or PBP. Laughable to suggest it is.

My niece runs the London Marathon in around 3 hours 20. She’s run it most years recently as she gets in as good for her age group. I took her on a 200km audax, so around 130 miles. I really had to nurse her round, she struggled if I’m honest. So really you’ve got to look at what people have trained for or are good at.


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## steverob (12 Feb 2020)

LEL and PBP I regard as being more equivalent to those Ultra-Marathons where they run the entire length of the Pennine Way or similar. You don't have to take a nap at the side of the road for RideLondon or the London Marathon!


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> The marathon is nowhere near the equivalent of LEL or PBP. Laughable to suggest it is.
> 
> My niece runs the London Marathon in around 3 hours 20. She’s run it most years recently as she gets in as good for her age group. I took her on a 200km audax, so around 130 miles. I really had to nurse her round, she struggled if I’m honest. So really you’ve got to look at what people have trained for or are good at.


I don't think anyone's suggesting you should be able to freely interchange between the two, duathlon style. More, what would be an equivalent big, but achievable, target for an able bodied person if they put in the training.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't think anyone's suggesting you should be able to freely interchange between the two, duathlon style. More, what would be an equivalent big, but achievable, target for an able bodied person if they put in the training.



Then you’ve got to say what are you comparing? What are you measuring to say one is harder than the other? What objective measure are you using, other than, a subjective oh that felt hard?


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## mjr (12 Feb 2020)

steverob said:


> LEL and PBP I regard as being more equivalent to those Ultra-Marathons where they run the entire length of the Pennine Way or similar. You don't have to take a nap at the side of the road for RideLondon or the London Marathon!


I think you underestimate how much I sleep


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Then you’ve got to say what are you comparing? What are you measuring to say one is harder than the other? What objective measure are you using, other than, oh that felt hard?



No objective measure is possible. Cycling and running are so different. If it was there'd be no point in this discussion.

Given the place of the marathon in popular culture and the extent to which an ordinary, non trained, person can complete one after training, what would be a cycling equivalent? Something that requires similar levels of commitment but is achievable.


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## mjr (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> The marathon is nowhere near the equivalent of LEL or PBP. Laughable to suggest it is.
> 
> My niece runs the London Marathon in around 3 hours 20. She’s run it most years recently as she gets in as good for her age group. I took her on a 200km audax, so around 130 miles. I really had to nurse her round, she struggled if I’m honest. So really you’ve got to look at what people have trained for or are good at.


Did she do as much audax training as marathon training before it, or is that comparison even more laughable than me saying what looks like marathon-equivalent to a middle-of-road cyclist? 

To be fair, I probably couldn't do a 200km audax but that would be more due to boredom than physical challenge... but I guess boredom is partly why I don't run much: the scenery moves too slow for the effort IMO.


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## vickster (12 Feb 2020)

steverob said:


> A little off topic for the RideLondon thread, but this has always been something I've wondered - what in people's opinion *IS* the cycling equivalent to a marathon?
> 
> I've never been a keen runner, but did it from time to time; mainly a something to do to keep fit when I couldn't ride, or when I'd foolishly entered myself in an event that I needed to train for; and was capable of running 5K without needing planning and could do a 10K in comfortably under an hour if I gave myself 4-5 weeks to prepare. I've since quit for various reasons, but while I was still running I figured that one day I'd build my fitness up and eventually try a marathon, but that I'd give myself at least 12 months to get to that stage by slowly going up through the distances. And I know plenty of people who were much less fit than me who have done similar, in fact some of them started from zero - e.g. couch to 5K.
> 
> ...


In a marathon, you have to run the full 26.3 miles...in a 100 mile cycle you will be freewheeling a fair amount, so the terrain of course has an Impact. Marathon courses are pretty flat


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> Did she do as much audax training as marathon training before it, or is that comparison even more laughable than me saying what looks like marathon-equivalent to a middle-of-road cyclist?
> 
> To be fair, I probably couldn't do a 200km audax but that would be more due to boredom than physical challenge... but I guess boredom is partly why I don't run much: the scenery moves too slow for the effort IMO.



She cycles as well. The point is,


Dogtrousers said:


> No objective measure is possible. Cycling and running are so different. If it was there'd be no point in this discussion.
> 
> Given the place of the marathon in popular culture and the extent to which an ordinary, non trained, person can complete one after training, what would be a cycling equivalent? Something that requires similar levels of commitment but is achievable.



Well there‘s the issue.

What do you mean by ordinary person? Could they walk at 4mph for six hours? If they can then they can do a marathon in 6.5 hours. No training required. If they can jog a little you can easily get that down to 5 hours.

But if by ordinary you mean sedentary then I know people who struggle with even 20 mins of moderate exercise.


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## Milkfloat (12 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> In a marathon, you have to run the full 26.3 miles...in a 100 mile cycle you will be freewheeling a fair amount, so the terrain of course has an Impact. Marathon courses are pretty flat



I fully agree, 100 miles on a bike is possible with minimum training for reasonable fit/active person, after all I knocked one out by accident when I was 13, worse case you have a very sore undercarriage. To ride one fast (sub 4 hours) is a lot harder and I would say is comparable to a marathon. To run a marathon (rather than walk) is not something someone can do without a least some decent training, mainly because they will injure themselves, but also because there is very little you can do to rest and recover like you can on a bike.

I have ridden many, many centuries but only run one marathon. Although I do run fairly regularly, I only do 5k and 10k distances, I found a marathon very hard work, far harder than any century. A friend of mine who has run multiple marathons also found his first bike century rather easy in comparison.


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> She cycles as well. The point is,
> 
> 
> Well there‘s the issue.
> ...


You're getting there.

So, now we need to consider the cycling equivalent. 

Or not. If you think it's a pointless discussion, which it is to a degree, then you aren't duty bound to participate.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> You're getting there.
> 
> So, now we need to consider the cycling equivalent.
> 
> Or not. If you think it's a pointless discussion, which it is to a degree, then you aren't duty bound to participate.



You still haven’t got it.

You need something to measure to come up with equivalence. Let’s go with energy expenditure , how do they compare?

Marathon run at 8mph, so 3 hours 15 mins and 3,600 calories
Cycling 100 miles at 16 mph, so 6 hours 15 mins and 3,750 calories

Seem pretty equivalent to me.


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You still haven’t got it.
> 
> You need something to measure to come up with equivalence. Let’s go with energy expenditure , how do they compare?
> 
> Marathon run at 8mph, so 3 hours 15 and 3,600 joules


Should you choose to take the route of establishing an objective, work based approach, yes, that would indeed be one, among many different and equally valid alternative ways of approaching the question. 

It's up to you.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Should you choose to take the route of establishing an objective, work based approach, yes, that would indeed be one, among many different and equally valid alternative ways of approaching the question.
> 
> It's up to you.



There we go then a 100 mile ride is equivalent to a marathon. Now we can get back to Ride London.


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> To ride one fast (sub 4 hours) is a lot harder and I would say is comparable to a marathon.


Yikes. My first thought was "I couldn't do _that_". 

But then I probably couldn't do a marathon again so maybe you have a point


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## Milkfloat (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Let’s go with energy expenditure , how do they compare?
> 
> Marathon run at 8mph, so 3 hours 15 mins and 3,600 calories
> Cycling 100 miles at 16 mph, so 6 hours 15 mins and 3,750 calories
> ...



I know I approach this at from a cycling dominated view, but my marathon was 44 seconds over 4 hours (yes I was very annoyed), but I found it much harder than a 5 hour Century. I don't even think I would have been capable of a 3 hour 15 marathon, even if I totally dedicated myself running. As it was, I did follow decent training plans for the marathon, it was not run an a whim and a few 10km races.


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## Smokin Joe (12 Feb 2020)

I'd say a 12hr time trial, if you take the preparation and endurance required.


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## Racing roadkill (12 Feb 2020)

It depends how hard you ride. Do a 100 mile hilly ride on a fixie ( an actual fixie with no freewheel ) then see if you think it’s not as tough as running a marathon.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I know I approach this at from a cycling dominated view, but my marathon was 44 seconds over 4 hours (yes I was very annoyed), but I found it much harder than a 5 hour Century. I don't even think I would have been capable of a 3 hour 15 marathon, even if I totally dedicated myself running. As it was, I did follow decent training plans for the marathon, it was not run an a whim and a few 10km races.



Just shows different sports different abilities. A four hour marathon is pretty slow for a marathon. It's very much in the fun run category. Where as a 20 mph 5 hour 100 miles, assuming it wasn't flat and you didn't draft at all, is at the quicker end for many riders. If the 100 mile cycle ride was flat then 20 mph would be fairly typical for a club rider.


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## Ian H (12 Feb 2020)

A100 mile time trial is different from just riding 100 miles, you shouldn't be freewheeling. Nowadays fast riders finish in well under 4hrs. 

A marathon is a race, so you should compare it with cycle racing. But, as said, there's no exact equivalent. In terms of exertion/energy expenditure, you'd probably have to be on the bike for longer than you would running.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

A marathon is a race at the sharp end but you can say it is. For many it's just about completion and you see many walking quite early on, certainly at the London Marathon.


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## rivers (12 Feb 2020)

My brother is a decently fast runner (sub 2:30 marathon). He trains pretty extensively for them throughout 8 months-year. He will hop on a bike a couple of times a year at his wife's request, and do a 100km ride without much of an issue. I can bash out a 100+ mile ride pretty much any time of the year. I can barely run down the street.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

rivers said:


> My brother is a decently fast runner (sub 2:30 marathon). He trains pretty extensively for them throughout 8 months-year. He will hop on a bike a couple of times a year at his wife's request, and do a 100km ride without much of an issue. I can bash out a 100+ mile ride pretty much any time of the year. I can barely run down the street.



Does he bash out the 100 miles in less than 4 hours though?


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Feb 2020)

Never run a marathon, so I think I need to have strong, entirely unjustified opinions on this one. 

On the basis of training required, virgin marathoners seem to need 6 months or so to build up. 

On that basis, I'd say a century on a bike is about the equivalent. Probably a hilly century, say the Marmotte, or Fred Whitton or something like that. 

It's definitely NOT PBP. That's more like ultra running.

I do 5k parkrun every week. I'd say that's about the same as a 10 mile TT, definitely easier than a 25. I can be even more confident in my opinions on that, as I have extensive experience of cycling those TTs. Precisely one of each, to be exact.


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## rivers (12 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Does he bash out the 100 miles in less than 4 hours though?



He won't ride 100 miles, his ass starts to complain apparently. We did 100km in about 4 hours when he came to visit a couple of years ago. I take great pleasure in gloating that I beat him up Cheddar.


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## adehooper (12 Feb 2020)

The Dartmoor Classic, Grande route. 😱 110 miles of hell, but IMHO equal to any Marathon, just an opinion of course having done both in my time.


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## DRHysted (12 Feb 2020)

I have done a marathon (badly), came in at 4hours 27 minutes (15 were laying down at mile 22). It took nearly a year of training in order to get my body used to the shear punishment that it goes through for that time. 
I have done a few centuries on the bike. My legs get tired, and my feet and backside start feeling as if they are on fire. However the punishment is less. 
comparing the two imo is like comparing apples and oranges.


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## Venod (12 Feb 2020)

It's something I have pondered before, but have never come up with answer, I have done a lot of running a few marathons and longer distances on the list, I didn't enjoy the marathons they left me drained, I nearly always enjoy a 100+ ride but I was probably more competitive running the marathon than cycling 100 miles, I suppose a 100 TT cycled competitively would drain me also, a hard 25tt was enough for me, my head would not cope well with a 100 TT either.
So for me a marathon is comparable to a hard 100 TT both approached competitively.


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## Twilkes (12 Feb 2020)

When running you have to constantly support and launch your entire weight with each step, with all the impact that entails, so maybe a cycling equivalent would be riding x miles after having removed your saddle and seatpost, regardless of how fast or slow you do it.

I once told my housemate that my 15 mile commute was fairly easy, and he challenged me to do the whole thing out of the saddle. I did it once, but ever since I have appreciated the functional beauty and beautiful functionality of a saddle. In fact if you ignore the legs going around, the sitting down and constantly eating is pretty much like any other day for me.


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## All uphill (12 Feb 2020)

I tried running today, as a result of this thread, and made about 1/2 mile before my aging body objected strongly. The same aging body seems to enjoy metric centuries, and I plan to do my first 100mile ride once the days are a bit longer.

Therefore, projecting from the individual to the population I can confidently assert that the running:cycling ratio is 1:120. QED.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

The over 85 marathon world record is 3:54, the over 70 is 2:54


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

Perhaps we ought to have a bell curve of Marathon times and 100 mile times and find out where there is an equivalence in terms of percentage of population that can do it.


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## Edwardoka (12 Feb 2020)

I don't think it's a useful comparison, because of the two different demands placed on the body.

My longest day in the saddle was 153 miles. While I couldn't face the thought of the bike for 3 days, I know that if I had no option then once I warmed up I'd have been able to knock out another ton the day after, and the day after, etc.

I've not taken part in a formal run since school but I have covered near-marathon distance hiking over rough terrain (hooray for the Devil's Staircase) in a day.
I walked 12 miles the following day, although much of that time was spent sat down feeling sorry for myself, towards the end I needed to use a branch I found as a walking stick just to put one foot in front of another, my ankles were in such a state that I considered going to the hospital instead of my hostel.

Load-bearing exercise will ruin you in a way that cycling won't.


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## Racing roadkill (12 Feb 2020)

I was entered in a marathon later this year. So I decided to get some running training started. I did a few 10 Km runs ( at about 45-50 minutes pace ) and I found that because of the amount of cycling I do, my heart and lungs were fine with it. However the leg muscles really didn’t like it at all, and towards the end of the 10Km runs, it felt like I was running through treacle, and they did need a lot of work the following day, to feel normal again, despite doing all the requisite warm up / warm down routines. After a couple of weeks doing the 10 Km route I had worked out, I pushed it up to 20 Km. The first one was fine, except for the treacle / Haribo legs in the last couple of Kms, when I went to repeat the trick, my left leg went completely dead at about 15 Kms. I limped home, and the following day, I couldn’t walk, I could barely stand. Really severe Shin splints, which were so bad, I thought I may have stress fractured my left tibia, which was bad news, because I had a load of rides to do, which I couldn’t, because I couldn’t move my left leg at all well. It took a week or two to recover, so I’ve binned the idea of running the marathon off, because I can’t risk the potential disruption to my cycling schedule at the moment. That really is a big big difference. The impact / shock your legs are dealing with, really do work the muscles in ways they are never worked when cycling. I used to primarily run ( mixture of road and cross country ) with cycling being the minority activity, so I was surprised at how easily I injured.


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## Rusty Nails (12 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> In a marathon, you have to run the full 26.3 miles...in a 100 mile cycle you will be freewheeling a fair amount, so the terrain of course has an Impact. Marathon courses are pretty flat



Good point. How about comparing a marathon to a 100 miles on a fixed wheel bike?


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## Milzy (12 Feb 2020)

adehooper said:


> The Dartmoor Classic, Grande route. 😱 110 miles of hell, but IMHO equal to any Marathon, just an opinion of course having done both in my time.


I'm doing it in June. It will be 110 miles of bliss to me. If you're very heavy and/or badly trained I could see it been hell.


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## DaveReading (12 Feb 2020)

Based on admittedly limited experience (RideLondon 100 and London Marathon 3 times each, respective times around 3:30 and 7:30), the RideLondon was a doddle compared to the marathon.


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## ColinJ (12 Feb 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Based on admittedly limited experience (RideLondon 100 and London Marathon 3 times each, respective times around 3:30 and 7:30), the RideLondon was a doddle compared to the marathon.


Strange - I'd say that a 3.5 hour century is _incredibly quick_ and a 7.5 hour marathon is _incredibly slow_!


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## adehooper (13 Feb 2020)

Milzy said:


> I'm doing it in June. It will be 110 miles of bliss to me. If you're very heavy and/or badly trained I could see it been hell.


Yep, I was 18st+, (my fighting weight, I'm a big fella) good luck to you though. I know it's just a sportive rather than a TT, but it still a toughie and commands a lot of respect. I'll give you a wave as it literally runs right pass my doorstep.


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## DaveReading (13 Feb 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Strange - I'd say that a 3.5 hour century is _incredibly quick_ and a 7.5 hour marathon is _incredibly slow_!



Haha.


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## PeteXXX (13 Feb 2020)

Is there an equivalent bike ride to the origin of the Marathon, where a chap ran that particular distance to deliver a Greek message? ie, a cyclist delivering an urgent message to a General, or summat, a long way away?


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## iandg (13 Feb 2020)

steverob said:


> LEL and PBP I regard as being more equivalent to those Ultra-Marathons where they run the entire length of the Pennine Way or similar. You don't have to take a nap at the side of the road for RideLondon or the London Marathon!



My thoughts too. No sleep deprivation in a marathon.

Difference with a bike is the opportunity to freewheel downhill for 'recovery' and body weight is supported by a saddle. I used to work on 3 miles cycling equivalent to 1 mile running - using that 'rule' 75 miles would be equivalent. From experience I would need as much time to recover from a 100 mile road race or 300km Audax as I did from running a Marathon.


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## mjr (13 Feb 2020)

PeteXXX said:


> Is there an equivalent bike ride to the origin of the Marathon, where a chap ran that particular distance to deliver a Greek message? ie, a cyclist delivering an urgent message to a General, or summat, a long way away?


There are rides or routes commemorating marches, train journeys and even flights, but ones commemorating bike rides seem few and far between. The closest I found was the Ypres-Dunkirk stage of the Big Battlefield Bike Ride which follows the Dynamo evacuation corridor. With the chaos and the terrain, some of the BEF probably cycled it. It's probably around 40 miles and fairly flat. https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/challenges/big-battlefield-bike-ride/

Pro races are mostly young and commercial, setting or changing routes to please funders. I didn't find anything among the monuments or classics.


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## johnblack (13 Feb 2020)

100 miles on road around London didn't seem like a marathon to me plus it depends on how the rider takes it, full bore or trundle. I do a 100 mile MTB sportive / ride using tracks and bridleways every year which can get pretty competitive and as you're on a MTB it's relentless, harder than any road bike ride I've done, so probably the nearest to a marathon. Plus I couldn't imagine anything worse than running a marathon.


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## Tenkaykev (13 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> In a marathon, you have to run the full 26.3 miles...in a 100 mile cycle you will be freewheeling a fair amount, so the terrain of course has an Impact. Marathon courses are pretty flat


This ^^^^ ( to some extent) 

I've run shed loads of Marathons and Ultra events over the years. 

Being diagnosed with a rare blood condition a few years ago meant that I didn't have the stamina for the long stuff as I fatigue easily. 

I started cycling a couple of years back and found that I could cycle a fair distance ( slowly) as the periods where I could coast let my legs recover to some extent. 

I still used the same training strategy as for Marathon running, a base of endurance mixed with some hills and some speed training. 

Managed to do 70 miles on my Brompton last year, I was pretty knackered at the end but felt that if necessary I could have carried on a bit further. 

One other thing to mention is that if you are reasonably fit it's not the distance that gets you, but the pace with which you try to cover that distance, and it's the law of diminishing returns in that each improvement in time gets increasingly more difficult. 

So to that extent you would need some sort of time vs distance benchmark ( ie something like a sub 4 marathon vs sub 6 Century) 
The cycling time example is a guess as I'm not an experienced cyclist. 

Health permitting I'm planning to attempt my first Century later this year so I'll report back 😉

Now, about Marathons being mainly flat, a lot are, but there are many that aren't. The original Isle of Wight Marathon boasted 24 " Major" hills and was a nightmare if you got it wrong. I think the AAA allowed several minutes if you were going for a particular time award. Then there's the Snowdon Marathon which has a bit of a hill in it, and a local one which involves running a Marathon along the Dorset coast path.


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## ColinJ (13 Feb 2020)

I did the 'Rossendale Mountain Bike Challenge' a few times. 45+ miles of severe offroad Pennine ruggedness. That was probably as tough as a (flat) marathon - my arms and shoulders suffered as much as my legs!


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## nickAKA (13 Feb 2020)

You can pootle arou


Racing roadkill said:


> I was entered in a marathon later this year. So I decided to get some running training started. I did a few 10 Km runs ( at about 45-50 minutes pace ) and I found that because of the amount of cycling I do, my heart and lungs were fine with it. However the leg muscles really didn’t like it at all, and towards the end of the 10Km runs, it felt like I was running through treacle, and they did need a lot of work the following day, to feel normal again, despite doing all the requisite warm up / warm down routines. After a couple of weeks doing the 10 Km route I had worked out, I pushed it up to 20 Km. The first one was fine, except for the treacle / Haribo legs in the last couple of Kms, when I went to repeat the trick, my left leg went completely dead at about 15 Kms. I limped home, and the following day, I couldn’t walk, I could barely stand. Really severe Shin splints, which were so bad, I thought I may have stress fractured my left tibia, which was bad news, because I had a load of rides to do, which I couldn’t, because I couldn’t move my left leg at all well. It took a week or two to recover, so I’ve binned the idea of running the marathon off, because I can’t risk the potential disruption to my cycling schedule at the moment. That really is a big big difference. The impact / shock your legs are dealing with, really do work the muscles in ways they are never worked when cycling. I used to primarily run ( mixture of road and cross country ) with cycling being the minority activity, so I was surprised at how easily I injured.



Agree on the cardio aspect, it's not a problem for me but I can only run for as long as my legs will carry me... it's all about the miles in the legs, comfort, pacing & fuelling when you run longer distances. Nobody wants to run carrying a load of fuel so it's really important to get that right.
The current training vogue is to run in zone 2 which I find nigh on impossible, a sub-120 HR is 10:30/mile pace personally and I find it really difficult to hold it. I regularly do 5 miles with the wife at that pace but I find it frustrating unless I follow it up with a quick/longer run which feels like defeating the object somewhat.
I've inadvertantly trained a diesel engine and I'm happiest/most comfortable running at 145-150bpm which will stand me in good stead for a marathon but I won't be breaking any records. It all depends what your goals are I suppose, I should be happy to get over the line but my ego insists I go sub-4

On the other hand, you've got options on the bike. Carrying a litre of fluid & some nibbles and fuelling on the go is pretty trivial. Non-competitive sportives mean cafe stops (a basic requirement of the leisurely century ride ) plus the soft-pedalling bits, sat in the draft, and the nice downhill rolls where you can catch your breath and do a bit of active recovery are all part of it... no such luxury when running cos even the downhills take a physical toll.

TL;DR equivalence? At this stage (pre-marathon, 17 miles max) I'd say a good climbing day about 6000', in the saddle for 4 or 5 hours? I dunno though, I've always made sure I've got enough miles in the bank to ensure my legs still worked after an event. I'll let you know in April.


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## Sharky (13 Feb 2020)

Maybe we should look at the ironman distances. 
2.4 swim
112 bike
Marathon

Assuming they have tried to make each section comparable in terms of effort etc, without giving an advantage to one specific discipline, then this would point to 112 miles being the equivalent.


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## mjr (13 Feb 2020)

nickAKA said:


> Non-competitive sportives mean cafe stops (a basic requirement of the leisurely century ride ) plus the soft-pedalling bits, sat in the draft, and the nice downhill rolls where you can catch your breath and do a bit of active recovery are all part of it... no such luxury when running cos even the downhills take a physical toll.


I am fairly sure one is allowed to stop at cafes when running non-competitively too. Few do, but then few sportivers stop at a cafe in my experience.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

Just thought I'd post this that I saw while perusing the Velo Essex website. https://www.veloessex.com/100-mile-route/overview/

_100 Miles – the big one. The ‘marathon distance’ of the cycling world. It seems like a long way, but with enough training and preparation, it’s a challenge that’s achievable for riders of all ability levels. _

I think that if you're going to go for a distance, and nothing else, then the equivalence 100 miles = marathon is about the best you will do. Or perhaps 200km, which is in the same ballpark but doesn't have the same ring as 100 miles to Brits. 

It's good enough for snappy sentences like the above but as we've established a 100 mile ride is a piece of cake compared to the physical punishment of a marathon.

Doing a particular amount of climbing might be fairer, but it just doesn't have the same ring to it. Maybe a half-Everest ~4,400m/14,500ft. I think an Everest is too big an ask.


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## Milkfloat (13 Feb 2020)

I wonder what the results would be if the question was asked on a runners forum. Asking the runners in my office, they have all said they would prefer to run a marathon than a 100 mile bike ride, but they are occasional cyclists.


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## mjr (13 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> [...] they are occasional cyclists.


So they look like regular cyclists, but are made of cheaper materials and covered with a long frilly cloth to conceal the fact?


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## Racing roadkill (13 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> few sportivers stop at a cafe in my experience.


On the very few sportives I’ve ever bothered with ( the first Velo Birmingham Midlands, and the PRLS 100 a few times) I’ve stopped at a Pret A Manger, and a pub. I do / did get some odd looks from people watching over the barriers, as I stopped, lock my bike to the bike racks outside and went in for a bite to eat and a drink / pint. I was told I “wasn’t taking it seriously” when I finished. You don’t say


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## Milkfloat (13 Feb 2020)

mjr said:


> So they look like regular cyclists, but are made of cheaper materials and covered with a long frilly cloth to conceal the fact?


Sounds like me


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## BrumJim (13 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> On the very few sportives I’ve ever bothered with ( the first Velo Birmingham Midlands, and the PRLS 100 a few times) I’ve stopped at a Pret A Manger, and a pub. I do / did get some odd looks from people watching over the barriers, as I stopped, lock my bike to the bike racks outside and went in for a bite to eat and a drink / pint. I was told I “wasn’t taking it seriously” when I finished. You don’t say



You've paid the money, you can do it how you like!

Actually, thinking about it, why would you want to get it over and done with as quickly as possible? I only do that with things that I hate.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

steverob said:


> LEL and PBP I regard as being more equivalent to those Ultra-Marathons where they run the entire length of the Pennine Way or similar. You don't have to take a nap at the side of the road for RideLondon or the London Marathon!


Not really on topic but I was a minor official at a hundred mile race at Crystal Palace track years and years ago. Jeez that was boring. I had to count the laps for "my guy". Fortunately "my guy" dropped out after a while (it seemed like a very long while) so I was released and went home. ISTR some Russian guy went on to break the record. I don't think any naps were taken.


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## confusedcyclist (13 Feb 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I 'ran' 2.5 miles back from work and it completely wiped me out the first time that I did it.


I also foolishly did this once, except it was 7.5 miles and I had to hobble for a week.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

Luckily for me I was told by my knee surgeon (about 15 years ago) that I should no longer consider running as a suitable recreation. Run for a bus? That's OK, but not for fun.


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## nickAKA (13 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I wonder what the results would be if the question was asked on a runners forum. Asking the runners in my office, they have all said they would prefer to run a marathon than a 100 mile bike ride, but they are occasional cyclists.



Polar opposite here but I've done 100 miles so I know what to expect...
I think the bit most occasional/new cyclists don't truly appreciate is it's not really your legs that are the problem, it's your backside. Most of the training is to acclimatise your butt. 
Similarly with the marathon, only it's your feet.


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## presta (13 Feb 2020)




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## Tenkaykev (13 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not really on topic but I was a minor official at a hundred mile race at Crystal Palace track years and years ago. Jeez that was boring. I had to count the laps for "my guy". Fortunately "my guy" dropped out after a while (it seemed like a very long while) so I was released and went home. ISTR some Russian guy went on to break the record. I don't think any naps were taken.



Many years ago I did back up for Mrs Tenkay a couple of times at Tooting Beck. 24 hours running round a track. The lap recorders had to time and record each lap. They worked in shifts and each runner was introduced to the person who would be taking over their individual lap recording.
They did a remarkable job and there was a great camaraderie amongst both the competitors and the lap recorders.

The second time that Mrs Tenkay competed in the event it absolutely chucked it down for about 16 hours and I had my work cut out helping her change her wet kit, putting it on the radiators in the changing room and calling her back in for a fresh change once it had dried.

One incident sticks in my mind, just after midnight, perhaps attracted by the floodlights, a bloke appeared peering through the chain link fencing. He had been sleeping rough and had more than a few drinks under his belt. He asked what was going on and I explained that everyone was running round in circles for 24 Hours to see who could go the furthest. He thought about it for a while and then burst out laughing saying something to the effect that it was absolute lunacy and absolutely brilliant at the same time.

It did eventually stop raining and the race finished in Sunshine. Mrs Tenkay had managed to keep going and having covered more than 100 Miles is an "Imperial Centurion"


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## All uphill (13 Feb 2020)

nickAKA said:


> Polar opposite here but I've done 100 miles so I know what to expect...
> I think the bit most occasional/new cyclists don't truly appreciate is it's not really your legs that are the problem, it's your backside. Most of the training is to acclimatise your butt.
> Similarly with the marathon, only it's your feet.



For me the obstacle to longer distances is my mind, not my body. I get to the "what the hell am I doing this for?" stage long before my bum or legs complain.


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## srw (13 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I was surprised at how easily I injured.


Really? After years of lack of conditioning you dived straight in with long distances run quickly. I'd say it was a miracle you weren't more seriously injured. If you'd started with an eight-week couch to 5k programme, mixing running and walking you'd be laughing.


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## nickAKA (13 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> On the very few sportives I’ve ever bothered with ( the first Velo Birmingham Midlands, and the PRLS 100 a few times) I’ve stopped at a Pret A Manger, and a pub. I do / did get some odd looks from people watching over the barriers, as I stopped, lock my bike to the bike racks outside and went in for a bite to eat and a drink / pint. I was told I “wasn’t taking it seriously” when I finished. You don’t say



'Sportives' was probably a poor description by me but I'm with you here, on every long-ish distance organised ride I've ever done the busiest parts of the route were always the fuelling stations.
On the flip side, you see the RCC brigade 'racing' the Manchester - Blackpool bellowing "on your right" at folk wearing jeans & t-shirts who are just having a lovely day out as they bimble along on dusty sports direct mountain bikes. 
I'm yet to reach the running nirvarna where I can stop & have a chat and a sandwich mid-route, I need to give trail running a try, that looks a bit more relaxed.


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## srw (13 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I wonder what the results would be if the question was asked on a runners forum. Asking the runners in my office, they have all said they would prefer to run a marathon than a 100 mile bike ride, but they are occasional cyclists.


This. The two activities are completely different with completely different impacts and demands on the body. Comparing them is like comparing apples and pears.

My personal data points are that cycling for half an hour results in me arriving at work without sweating and able to go straight into meetings, with a peak heart rate of less than 120. Running for half an hour sees my heart rate top out around 160 and results in me needing a shower and a lie down. Both are done at a pace which puts me in the bottom 10% or so of Garmin's population who undertake those activities.


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## tallliman (13 Feb 2020)

Sharky said:


> Maybe we should look at the ironman distances.
> 2.4 swim
> 112 bike
> Marathon
> ...



My 2p is somewhere around this comparison but I'm not too fussed by 112 miles or 100 miles.


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## Rusty Nails (13 Feb 2020)

tallliman said:


> My 2p is somewhere around this comparison but I'm not too fussed by 112 miles or 100 miles.



I thought they put the marathon last because they're too knackered to do anything after that.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not really on topic but I was a minor official at a hundred mile race at Crystal Palace track years and years ago. Jeez that was boring. I had to count the laps for "my guy". Fortunately "my guy" dropped out after a while (it seemed like a very long while) so I was released and went home. ISTR some Russian guy went on to break the record. I don't think any naps were taken.



You must mean a 1000 miles or something. Why on earth would anyone need to nap in a 100 mile race?


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You must mean a 1000 miles or something. Why on earth would anyone need to nap in a 100 mile race?


Nobody did.

We lap counters came a bit close.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Nobody did.
> 
> We lap counters came a bit close.



Indoor track?


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Indoor track?


Crystal Palace. Outdoor track in a stadium.

I can't remember how I got into the volunteers list it but I did a number of long distance running officiating jobs back then. Another one was marshalling on a London-Brighton race.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Crystal Palace. Outdoor track in a stadium.
> 
> I can't remember how I got into the volunteers list it but I did a number of long distance running officiating jobs back then. Another one was marshalling on a London-Brighton race.



So what length?


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## boydj (13 Feb 2020)

When I was young and fit I played football and was told I had a 'good engine'. I started running at lunchtimes in my early 30's to keep fit and there was a good club at work. This led to racing with the club on road and cross-country, which eventually led to finishing 5 marathons, 2 of them in under 2h 50m. The year I turned 40 I started triathlon training and competed in a few - the longest being a bit longer then half-ironman. At that point my swimming was just about adequate and I'd very little cycling experience, but my general level of fitness saw me through. The year I turned 40, with a few months of triathlon training, I ran pb's in several races. Then I burst a hamstring playing 5's and my running went from 6-minute miles to 8-minute miles. I didn't cycle at all after that for a long time, but I kept up the running (more like jogging).

Years later, after redundancy, I got a job about 9 miles from home and started cycling to work. Cycling fitness improved rapidly and I loved it to the point of joining a club. Now, several years into retirement, I still love my cycling - though golf is my main sport - and I'm still doing a couple of thousand miles a year (none of these cissy kilometres for me).

It doesn't really matter what level of fitness you are at, there's no doubt in my mind that cycling is much easier on the body. Cycling and running are both hard on the inexperienced, but with cycling you can take it easy in a way that you just can't when you are running. After running a marathon, I'd be hobbling for a few days - even after weeks of 60 - 70 miles a week in training. After a triathlon or a big cycling event, I could be out training the next day, albeit in recovery mode.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> So what length?


London -Brighton? Not a clue. It was about 20 years ago.

My job was to hang around in Coulsdon or somewhere like that in a hi viz jacket doing precisely nothing until the field had all passed.


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## Cuchilo (13 Feb 2020)

Try doing 100 miles ( london to brighton and back ) with a group of TT 'ers . Then say 100 miles is easy


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> London -Brighton? Not a clue. It was about 20 years ago.
> 
> My job was to hang around in Coulsdon or somewhere like that in a hi viz jacket doing precisely nothing until the field had all passed.



No the laps!


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## lazybloke (13 Feb 2020)

Good work @Racing roadkill !
My first sportive was very well-catered with a generous hot meal at the halfway point plus 2 other snack breaks.

This was clearly habit-forming, as when i did the london surrey 100 i stopped quite a few times, for: water, ice cream, breakfast, sunday roast leftovers and biscuits, a sarnie, bananas and cake!
(Plus donuts and flapjack afterwards at the charity tent afterwards)
If i ever do a LEJOG i'll probably put on a fair few pounds.


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## united4ever (13 Feb 2020)

there was some documentary a few years ago about some Aussie guy doing Arch to Arc....(marble arch to Arc we triumph triathlon) running from marble arch to the channel the first day, sleep and then swim the channel, sleep and then cycle to Paris. Seemed like the cycle was just a breeze even though it was the last bit. The swimming looked horrific. That sums it up for me... cycling seems so much easier than running or swimming even if you quadruple the distance.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> London -Brighton? Not a clue. It was about 20 years ago.
> 
> My job was to hang around in Coulsdon or somewhere like that in a hi viz jacket doing precisely nothing until the field had all passed.



About 55 miles, the route changed a bit over the years. 7am start on Tower Bridge then out through the suburbs. 
Sincere thanks to you and all the other marshals.


Dogtrousers said:


> London -Brighton? Not a clue. It was about 20 years ago.
> 
> My job was to hang around in Coulsdon or somewhere like that in a hi viz jacket doing precisely nothing until the field had all passed.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Feb 2020)

Turning the question on its head, what emblematic term from cycling would you use in the same way as the term "marathon" is used?

So if a century is the marathon of cycling, is a marathon the Alpe d'Huez (or whatever) of running?


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## Tenkaykev (14 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Turning the question on its head, what emblematic term from cycling would you use in the same way as the term "marathon" is used?
> 
> So if a century is the marathon of cycling, is a marathon the Alpe d'Huez (or whatever) of running?



I'd vote for the Comrades Marathon. It will be the 100th running of the event next year. 
A wonderful history, quite challenging ( if you do the " up " then the first 26 miles are uphill, then it gets a bit undulating, 😉
If you do the " down" then the last 26 miles beats the crap out of your knees)


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## johnblack (14 Feb 2020)

What about something like C2C ridden hard with Hardknott, Wrynose etc, 150 miles got to be over 13k ft climbing, that feels about equivalent.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> On the very few sportives I’ve ever bothered with ( the first Velo Birmingham Midlands, and the PRLS 100 a few times) I’ve stopped at a Pret A Manger, and a pub. I do / did get some odd looks from people watching over the barriers, as I stopped, lock my bike to the bike racks outside and went in for a bite to eat and a drink / pint. *I was told I “wasn’t taking it seriously” when I finished. You don’t say*


You've met some of the dozy prats who actually believe a sportive is a race, bless 'em.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Feb 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> No the laps!



My first event was 1/4 mile laps of cinder track, thereafter the track events were 400 metres "tartan" track.
Road events tended to vary in lap length, there was a 24hr round Chorley rec, and an indoor 24hr held indoors in Milton Keynes shopping centre ( running on marble isn't very kind to your joints) DAMHIKT


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## mjr (14 Feb 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> You've met some of the dozy prats who actually believe a sportive is a race, bless 'em.


Daniel Friebe asked Richard Moore if he was going to win the RideLondon 100 on The Cycling Podcast this week. Should we  or  at a journalist pretending it's a race?



Tenkaykev said:


> an indoor 24hr held indoors in Milton Keynes shopping centre ( running on marble isn't very kind to your joints) DAMHIKT


The roller-skate race in Milton Keynes shopping centre, in the dead-end by the John Lewis mural, was unkind to our ears:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57eqtN2K7E


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Feb 2020)

Guy has never run a marathon as he always does longer running events. Now trying for US Olympic team.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/magazine/ultrarunning-marathon-olympics.html


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## Nebulous (16 Feb 2020)

My son was 19, walked a lot as he didn’t drive, didn’t run and for some reason I’ve forgotten signed up for a marathon for charity. 

He forgot or didn’t bother to train, running much shorter distances, maybe 2-3 times in preparation. On the morning of the marathon, the hotel he was staying in had late breakfasts at weekends which meant he didn’t get anything to eat before leaving for the start. He made it in around 5 hours on a hot day, we were waiting for him at the finish and thought we would have to get medical attention for him when we saw the state of him. So doing a marathon without preparation is possible, but doing it well is a different matter. 

I’m not much better. I had barely cycled more than 40 miles then planned a coast to coast following the great highland fault line. Around 190 miles in two days. On a road bike, carrying clothes, shoes and kit in a backpack. Annoyingly neither day was over 100 miles, so I couldn’t claim my first century. I bonked at one point, was cycling in my lowest gear through treacle, on the flat. Luckily I found a coffee shop and had several cakes and two coffees. My shoulders were bruised and sore for days afterwards, but I made it. 

In terms of equivalence, although I never run, I would say a 300 audax is a sufficient challenge for me to equal a marathon in my head. It needs thought, preparation, and has sufficient doubt about whether I will make it to give some gnawing anxiety. Some of my worst experiences on a bike were 300s, which raises the odds and adds some psychological barriers to overcome.


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