# Statins - interesting study



## lazybloke (15 Nov 2020)

The nocebo effect is why I remove the patient information leaflet from my son's ADHD medication.

Seems the same approach would could be beneficial for those on statins
Linky


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## mjr (16 Nov 2020)

Crap study by the looks of it. If you wanted to design a study likely to find no problems, that would be a possible one. Only 60 patients, all previous users, and the least troublesome statin used. Design excludes culmulative side effects that take months or years to become noticeable, exercise-induced effects and side effects of the non-medicinal pill ingredients.

Some key info is subscription only, such as dose, protocol (you are meant to ramp up statin dose initially) and the profile of the subjects (were they on statins for any heritidary reasons, age reasons or lifestyle?).

This study is probably going to cause sufferers of statin myopathy and many other medication problems a lot of mental health damage over the next few months as it gets propagated by a few people who should know better and many who don't. The study authors and the New England Journal of Medicine should be ashamed.

And I feel @lazybloke's son is not being allowed to make an informed decision if the patient information leaflet (PIL) is being withheld. Whether that is a problem probably depends how old they are and whether they are officially dependent. I think I always had my PILs from age 10ish but I only reported side effects on my long term meds at age 32 and even that took a doctor to point out.


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## lazybloke (16 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> And I feel @lazybloke's son is not being allowed to make an informed decision if the patient information leaflet (PIL) is being withheld. Whether that is a problem probably depends how old they are and whether they are officially dependent. I think I always had my PILs from age 10ish but I only reported side effects on my long term meds at age 32 and even that took a doctor to point out.


Knee. Jerk.

The placebo- and nocebo- effects have been studied for years and are very real. That doesn't exclude the possibility of side-effects, but it's worth investigating further.
I've edited my initial post slightly.

As for not allowing a minor to make an informed decision, welcome to parenthood. Difficult choices have to be made sometimes, but are intended to be in the child's best interest.
No information is being withheld, he can ask for it, he can look it up on Google, or we have a shelf full of books about his conditions (AdHD being only one of them).

And we're not disregarding the possibility of side effects. His medication dosage has not been finalised yet, so he's under constant surveilance for side effects, including face-to-face interviews.


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## mjr (16 Nov 2020)

lazybloke said:


> As for not allowing a minor to make an informed decision, welcome to parenthood. Difficult choices have to be made sometimes, but are intended to be in the child's best interest.


Yes, I agreed already: "whether that is a problem probably depends how old they are and whether they are officially dependent". It was not completely certain from the opening post that your son is a minor.

Also, I'm not denying placebo and nocebo effects, but I'm not the one saying that one crap-looking study tells us much worthwhile about reported statin side-effects or even all unintended drug effects.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> Crap study by the looks of it. If you wanted to design a study likely to find no problems, that would be a possible one. Only 60 patients, all previous users, and the least troublesome statin used. Design excludes culmulative side effects that take months or years to become noticeable, exercise-induced effects and side effects of the non-medicinal pill ingredients.
> 
> Some key info is subscription only, such as dose, protocol (you are meant to ramp up statin dose initially) and the profile of the subjects (were they on statins for any heritidary reasons, age reasons or lifestyle?).
> 
> ...


*Last part first.*
Why did you wait so long before reporting side effects. I was being asked about them aged 10, and expected to be able to answer for myself. I didn't just rely on what I was told they would/could do. Two very different approaches, with a third on this thread.

The minor mentioned by @lazybloke, cannot decide, legally, on what course of medication is to be taken. He can however help those choices be made by reporting any side effects. Often it's not what appears on the patient information leaflet. Covered in most cases by "this list is not exhaustive". By not reading them, not reading them fully, but reporting problems, he may be helping himself. I used to go to the central library in town and check there.

Formulations differ between manufacturer's of the "same drug".

As for causing problems for many people on other medications, how? Do you think people won't ask about medication side effects, be they trained medicals or the person taking them. I ask any time my medication is changed.

I feel that you saying it was unfair for lazybloke to remove the leaflet was incorrect, and unfair to lazybloke.


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