# No more club rides for me



## Matthew_T (30 Jul 2013)

I felt really excluded at tonights club ride. The ride itself was normal. But we went to the pub after to celebrate a members 50th. At the pub noone spoke to me, I felt really bored and unwelcome. I have been with the club for over a year and would have expected better from them.
Sorry to say that I will not be attending any club rides anymore.


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## mark st1 (30 Jul 2013)




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## Saluki (30 Jul 2013)

Are there any other clubs in your area than you can go out with at all?
Nothing worse than being ignored by a bunch of folks that you have been socialising with for some time.


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## Matthew_T (30 Jul 2013)

Saluki said:


> Are there any other clubs in your area than you can go out with at all?
> Nothing worse than being ignored by a bunch of folks that you have been socialising with for some time.


I am a member of the Meliden club. There is a Rhyl club that I might be going out with on Sundays from now on.

I enjoy going on the club rides because of the social side of it. I do not enjoy being ignored. They have lost a member.


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## Brandane (30 Jul 2013)

I hear that Meliden CC is popular with local taxi drivers and Dominoes pizza staff!


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2013)

You do have to participate in conversations - two way process, so if you are quiet folk will leave you alone ?

You can't label a group of folk from one evening out of a whole year. I joined my cycling club about 6 months ago, but have only been out with them three times, but they know who I am - you've got to talk, and find out about them, sometimes you've got to initiate the conversation.


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## GetAGrip (31 Jul 2013)

As TintMyNewt says, they may have just have thought you wanted to sit quietly, Did you wish the member a Happy Birthday? and offering to buy them a drink to celebrate their birthday is usually a good move .
I think we all find large groups of people difficult to feel at ease with sometimes, especially at social events. For instance, on this visit to the pub, the chat may not have been particularly cycling related, and sometimes you need to take a deep breath and join in the small talk, trying to take an interest in whatever the topic of conversation happens to be.

If you enjoy the club runs, don't stop going because of one bad experience in the pub. It might be that, just like most of us, you need to work on your social skills a little, which in turn will give your confidence a bit of a boost


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

User13710 said:


> That's the important bit. *Ask a question* - people love talking about themselves and it gets the conversation started.


 


The best one being of course... can I get you a drink?


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2013)

Matthew, I wouldn't jump down on the club. Remember you have Aspergers and it can cause you difficulties with social interaction - maybe you were the quiet one last night and not interacting. Just take a step back, think, and don't jump in feet first. No reason to give up on the club as you've enjoyed their company for the last year.


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## s7ephanie (31 Jul 2013)

maybe they are jealous of your 'fame' and to be honest you do seem a bit of an 'old fooggy type', and always complaining - sorry !!


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## oldfatfool (31 Jul 2013)

Mathew do you drink? otherwise they may have thought it was you being unsociable.


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## buggi (31 Jul 2013)

well i don't know you Matthew but it's one of two scenario's:=

1. they are up their own arses and you should leave

2. they are not up their own arses and you shouldn't leave.

i was going with 1 until i heard you had aspergers. i know there are many forms but now i'm thinking its more like 2 and you should give them another chance. a woman at work has aspergers and she finds it hard to socialise and to articulate what she is saying. as said, start by asking a question but make sure you listen to the answer, instead of panicking what you are gong to say next. then you will actually hear what they are saying the conversation will be easier. 

If you have aspergers they may just as well be finding hard to talk to you, and don't know how to handle it, so prefer to shy away and "let someone else talk to you". if they all feel like that, then no one will talk and that's when you find yourself in this situation, particularly if you shy away yourself.. so you may need to make the first move. it's may not be that they are meaning to be rude but that they just don't know how to talk to you.


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## s7ephanie (31 Jul 2013)

I didnt know Matthew had aspergers, so i would like to apologise for my post xxx i wasnt trying to be nasty


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## Hip Priest (31 Jul 2013)

They were probably just upset that you'd run them all off your wheel.


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## Pat "5mph" (31 Jul 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Mathew do you drink? otherwise they may have thought it was you being unsociable.


This is a wee problem I had when I was Matthew's age: everybody getting out to get get drunk, tried to join in but couldn't, makes me feel 
I used to say my soft drink was vodka and coke trying not to come across as a spoilspot 
Because the occasion was a 50th birthday and you are a young whippet @Matthew_T you might have felt excluded from the banter, nevertheless you are equal to the rest on the bike, so I would not give the episode too much importance


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## Matthew_T (31 Jul 2013)

I was drinking and I was seriously racking my mind for something to start a conversation with. I was trying to listen to peoples convo's (without being nosey) and thinking of something I could input. It got to the stage where I was with the dog owner trying to think of something dog related.
Social interventions are very difficult for me to handle. I am not a person to start a conversation. Most of the people in the club I know but rarely speak to on the rides because we are all concentrating and moving about.
I know I shouldnt jump on them so quickly but this has happened before at the pub, and pretty much on every ride. People rarely come and speak to me.

At work we constantly ask each other if they are 'alright' just to start the conversation. All I need is for someone to acknowledge my existence.


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## Hacienda71 (31 Jul 2013)

Ask out about their bikes/kit and if they race TT etc. Most cyclists will be happy to recount tales of their achievements and what mods they have made to their bikes.


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## HLaB (31 Jul 2013)

Its hard but you find that some clicks wont speak until spoken to and then they turn out to be great folk involving you in everything; the ice just needs braking.


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2013)

Mathew it's not the cub members fault, they probably think you are very quiet if you won't initiate a conversation.

With my new club, talk generally starts, as has been said, about the bike. They will ask about mine, me about there bike, riding they do etc. etc. If you don't initiate a conversation, many folk will be happy not to say a word all day. 

Don't lose faith in the club. Is anyone aware of your condition ? That may help them understand. Also, as a young lad, you won't have the life experience yet, so sharing those moments are more difficult.

One of the things my 'old' club used to do was talk about funny moments or crazy stuff they had done, like holding onto the back of a JCB as it drove up Winnats pass !! Good ice breaker - get folk laughing.


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Ask out about their bikes/kit and if they race TT etc. Most cyclists will be happy to recount tales of their achievements and what mods they have made to their bikes.


 
Aye, enough to bore "non cyclists" to death.


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## coffeejo (31 Jul 2013)

Groups operate differently to individuals, which makes socialising even harder if you're not up to speed with all the rules and don't know how to read the signals/cues. 

Two suggestions.

1) Of the regular attendees at club rides and events, decide who the most empathetic person that you trust and talk to them about the difficulties you're experiencing on the social interaction side of things and ask for their help and support so that you're not excluded.

2) Get professional assistance on how to manage all kinds of social situations, from being down the pub to customer relations. 

Actually, do both. I really believe it will help you relax and enjoy your life without getting caught up in the frustrations of not understanding people.


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## Inertia (31 Jul 2013)

User13710 said:


> I sympathise with you, starting to chat from 'cold' isn't always easy. Maybe you could practice ways of starting a conversation, say by role-playing this situation with your dad or mum? You could work up a mental list of questions to ask people that would be friendly but not nosey, and good ways of getting people talking. For instance, like asking the dog owner what kind of dogs they own, which breeds they like best and why, that sort of thing.


Being in a situation with lots of strangers and making a move to start a conversation can be daunting to anyone. A mental list of questions like TMN suggested sounds like a very good idea, once you get them talking about themselves you will probably come up with more questions or something to add yourself.


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## shouldbeinbed (31 Jul 2013)

coffeejo said:


> Groups operate differently to individuals, which makes socialising even harder if you're not up to speed with all the rules and don't know how to read the signals/cues.
> 
> Two suggestions.
> 
> ...


 

This, especially no 1.

I was formulating a post as I read through going to suggest if there is one person you consider a pal or the club's 'everybodys mate' that you could have a quiet 1:1 chat with and just explain how uncomfortable you feel being the conversation starter, & why if you want to give the the medical angle, and how uncomfortable you have ended up feeling through no fault of anybodys.

It sounds as if there is the misunderstanding by the others that you just want to be left in peace or they aren't getting past the 'if you aren't going to make the effort as the new boy, why should we' attitude without knowing why you are coming across as painfully shy/stand offish.


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## Banjo (31 Jul 2013)

Dont give up on them just for the one night. Remember that some of them may have been mates for decades and some of the banter goes over your head leaving you feel excluded.

Well done on at least trying to socialise with them. Parties arent easy for everyone Aspergers or not.Have a quiet chat with someone in the club you trust/look up to and maybe they can help draw you into the conversations etc. Good Luck


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## arranandy (31 Jul 2013)

Took me a while to be 'accepted' when I joined my present bike club. It only really happened after I'd done a few club confined events (TTs and APRs) and put in some half decent performances. Add to that doing virtually every Saturday group ride for a whole winter season regardless of the weather.
Having said that the club seems a lot more sociable these days thanks to an influx of new members over the past couple of years


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## gavroche (31 Jul 2013)

Very recently, I went for a ride with Matthew. There was just the two of us. We didn't talk much while riding but when we stopped for an ice cream, we had a good chat and Matthew was easy to talk to. So maybe the members of his club are snobbing him and in that case he should look for another club.


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## the_mikey (31 Jul 2013)

Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret the actions/words/intentions of other people, sometimes people will do things that might disappoint you, but that shouldn't stop you enjoying the thing that you do enjoy doing. Don't feel that you have to attend the social evening, maybe it meant more to other people in the group than it meant to you, don't take it personally.


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## guitarpete247 (31 Jul 2013)

Earlier this year I tried out a ride with a local club. I kept being left behind on any inclines as everone else were riding carbon and my bike is a 30 year old steelie. (I kept catching up on the flat and even had to keep breaking on down-hills). At the cafe stop I tried to join in with conversations but was definitely excluded and made to feel unwelcome.
I've not been with them since. 
I do want a newer, lighter ride but enjoy riding on my own more than being ignored by a group with better more expensive gear than me.
It's about the cycling.


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## screenman (1 Aug 2013)

We have 2 ears and one mouth, so you should do twice as much listening as talking.

Luckily for me I have never felt ignored or shut out, if I was ever so it did not have an impact upon my well being.

Sometimes we have to look closer to home for the seat of a problem.


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## screenman (1 Aug 2013)

guitarpete247 said:


> Earlier this year I tried out a ride with a local club. I kept being left behind on any inclines as everone else were riding carbon and my bike is a 30 year old steelie. (I kept catching up on the flat and even had to keep breaking on down-hills). At the cafe stop I tried to join in with conversations but was definitely excluded and made to feel unwelcome.
> I've not been with them since.
> I do want a newer, lighter ride but enjoy riding on my own more than being ignored by a group with better more expensive gear than me.
> It's about the cycling.


 
It is unlikely a lighter newer bike would speed you up much more, improved fitness will work better and cheaper. Many a good tune and all that.


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## Hitchington (1 Aug 2013)

Hello Matthew! I read with interest about your experience (I am a practitioner working with individuals with ASC). Us neuro-typicals are a strange bunch and I completely empathise with the difficulties that people with an ASC experience when trying to fathom out the confusing and chaotic minefield that is social interaction. Are there 1 or 2 members that you feel you could buddy up with? You could approach one who you think would be sympathetic and explain your condition to them. They could then make sure you're not feeling left out when the social aspect of club riding happens in the pub. There are a lot of helpful people out there who are patient and understanding, good luck


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## Rob3rt (1 Aug 2013)

guitarpete247 said:


> Earlier this year I tried out a ride with a local club. I kept being left behind on any inclines as everone else were riding carbon and my bike is a 30 year old steelie. (I kept catching up on the flat and even had to keep breaking on down-hills).* At the cafe stop I tried to join in with conversations but was definitely excluded and made to feel unwelcome.*
> I've not been with them since.
> I do want a newer, lighter ride but enjoy riding on my own more than being ignored by a group with better more expensive gear than me.
> It's about the cycling.


 
How so?

I think more often than not when someone is "excluded" that it is not actually a case of concious exclusion or rudeness but just forgetting that the new guy isn't on the banter or whatever. You can not realistically expect to join a pre-existing group and expect to instantly be "one of the gang", or the life and soul of the party.

Our club is traditionally a racing club, albeit one with a strong social rider base, most people ride fairly expensive bikes, a few ride very expensive super bling bikes, some ride old steel bikes. No-one gets looked down on. That is not to say that no-one feels they are looked down on, that is a distinct possibility and one a group can not really eliminate since that is down to someones thoughts, not the reality.

Getting dropped on hills is fairly normal too btw, on our club rides, hills are a free for all unless otherwise stated, this lets the guys who want a bit of training from the ride stretch their legs and also, when climbing many people can only really go at their own rhythm so it doesn't make sense to have someone setting the pace for a group.


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## PK99 (1 Aug 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I felt really excluded at tonights club ride. The ride itself was normal. But we went to the pub after to celebrate a members 50th. At the pub noone spoke to me, I felt really bored and unwelcome. I have been with the club for over a year and would have expected better from them.
> Sorry to say that I will not be attending any club rides anymore.


 
A video from the evening is on the club Facebook page: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkMOqZmMRdY&feature=youtu.be


If I have you right, you are standing away from the group, seeming to observe as you sup your pint.
The rest of the group are sat/stood around a couple of tables, facing inwards - apart from one guy who at the start of the video is stood near you supping and staring into the distance. When the camera come back he has moved elsewhere.
You are physically outside the group and interaction requires someone to leave the group and come over to you.

Many people would read that as you not wanting to be part of the group - happy to sup and observe. They do not know what is going on in your head.
If you want to be involved in the group, put yourself physically there and make interaction the easy natural thing, rather than requiring someone to walk over to you.

I'm older than you, around 50 when I first joined my club, but it went something like this....
First club run I was on, at the end of run pub someone bought a round - I bought the second. Conversation flowed as it does when someone buys beer.
Second club run, same thing. But as I went to pay, one of the guys stopped me "You bought a round last time, it must by my turn" cue conversation about beer and the footie game on the tv.
Next week i bought a round
Next week, I went to buy a round and a different guy stopped me "You are always buying beer, put your money away it's my round"
By that time I was established as a beer drinker and buyer and had broken the conversational ice with a number of people.


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## Rob3rt (1 Aug 2013)

Just a thought, some people don't like having a camera pointed at them!

Edit: nm, I now viewed the video on youtube and can see the caption which I couldn't see with the embedded video.

You were stood completely away from the group. You are going to need to make yourself part of the group if you are to be treated as part of it.


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## lejogger (1 Aug 2013)

A couple of weeks ago my girlfriend of a few months invited me and my 9 year old son to her friend’s house for a birthday BBQ. I’d met the host and her boyfriend once before – we’d been out for a double date dinner – but the rest of the bunch were complete strangers. 

I’d tried to arrive a little late to ensure that the GF would be there when I arrived but she’d gone to fetch her sister and a table or something and we ended up having to venture in alone. 

While the host couple found time for a brief chat and some introductions, they were obviously busy hosting and couldn’t babysit me. I grabbed a beer and made my way over to a table in the garden where most were congregated, said some hellos and tried to pull up a chair. Not one of them made any attempt to engage me after the initial greeting, nor did they open up the circle of chairs to allow me to integrate, instead I ended up sat on the periphery feeling very much the odd one out. After a very long minute or so of feeling very awkward I made my way over to the host and made some small talk with him about golf and cycling while he BBQ’d until the GF arrived. 

In complete contrast, my son had immediately gone over to the group of boys of varying ages, I think his awkward silence lasted for about 3 seconds until he showed them his water pistol and one of them asked him about playstations or trampolines or something, and then I barely saw him for the rest of the night while he tore around the place causing mischief with his new mates (ruining his socks in the process). 

I don’t have aspergers, I consider myself to be generally a sociable person, but I must admit I did analyse the start of the evening wondering why it was so easy for children to bond and so difficult for some adults. 

I think my conclusion was common ground. Kids tend to like similar things and form their opinions in a very simplistic manner at that age. They’re also not complicated by cliques and politics in quite the same way that us old ‘uns are. Plus, everyone likes a water pistol.

Also, from the other side, it can be just as difficult for someone on the inside to reach out to someone who looks like they’re feeling awkward or uncomfortable – even though we probably all like to think that we’d be that person, in that sort of informal gathering maybe they were just waiting for someone else to make the first move.

I have an inner squirminess when I see someone who I think feels uncomfortable. Maybe 6 times out of 10 it persuades me to do something about it. 

I have a good friend who is naturally bursting with witty banter, jokes and talking points, and physically can’t help himself from making sure that everyone feels included in any sort of situation. His inner squirminess will persuade him to intervene 10 out of 10 times.

I have another pal who pretty much couldn’t give two hoots about how anyone unconnected to him is feeling, or what anyone else thinks about him as long as he’s ok. He doesn’t get that inner squirminess, or if he does he’s very good at ignoring it. 

Both are fantastic mates, but polar opposites. They’re both good people, they just have different social strengths. 

On the whole though, you can’t expect someone to make an effort with you unless you’re also making an effort with them. Common ground shouldn’t be hard to find when you’re a cyclist amongst a group of cyclists. Having something to say or show or share to break the ice with is what it’s all about. If you make an effort and get nothing in return then they’re not worth making the effort for, but I’d be very surprised if on the whole, you dangle a carrot and don’t get a bite. 

So next time you find yourself in that sort of situation, be prepared to engage, have some questions to ask, like so many have suggested – be willing to get a round in, and also perhaps take a water pistol and a spare pair of socks.


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## fossyant (1 Aug 2013)

guitarpete247 said:


> Earlier this year I tried out a ride with a local club. I kept being left behind on any inclines as everone else were riding carbon and my bike is a 30 year old steelie.


 
It's not the bike. I ride my 23 year old steel bikes with my club, many on very expensive super light kit. The only ones who get up hills quicker than me are the fitter ones ! Now't to do with the bike at all.


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## Dan B (1 Aug 2013)

Odd, my carbon/alu bike definitely goes up hills faster than my 30 year old steel bike.


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## hopless500 (1 Aug 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I was drinking and I was seriously racking my mind for something to start a conversation with. I was trying to listen to peoples convo's (without being nosey) and thinking of something I could input. It got to the stage where I was with the dog owner trying to think of something dog related.
> Social interventions are very difficult for me to handle. I am not a person to start a conversation. Most of the people in the club I know but rarely speak to on the rides because we are all concentrating and moving about.
> I know I shouldnt jump on them so quickly but this has happened before at the pub, and pretty much on every ride. People rarely come and speak to me.
> 
> At work we constantly ask each other if they are 'alright' just to start the conversation. All I need is for someone to acknowledge my existence.


 

You're not alone. Starting a conversation can be difficult for most people. It's not always easy for me.....sometimes there'll be someone around that I get on with instantly and can talk about absolutely nothing with, quite happily, for hours. Rest of the time it is like trying to pull teeth out with a spoon and I would rather stand to one side and listen (or not as the case may be!). If they bore me stupid I tend to mooch off and hide 
As a side issue - have you let them know you have Aspergers? If not, it might be worth making sure they know - they might just think you are difficult to talk to, or that you don't want to talk, and accordingly not take much notice of you.... and if there is someone that effectively heads up the club, can you talk to them and ask them to let the others know? And explain how you feel too.. then if it doesn't change, you can think about moving to a different club.


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## brodiej (1 Aug 2013)

I must say I wouldn't tell a bunch of strangers on my first social get together I have Aspergers - that would be awkward for all concerned and people would talk to you not because of who you are but because of your Aspergers

I would find a drinks party with a bunch of strangers an occasion where I would not expect to be the life and soul.

I would sit to one side and observe.
Once a bit more comfortable it is likely I would have said a few words to a few people- but not many and I wouldn't be bothered if I didn't.

I wouldn't take it as an affront. I would consider it normal.

Next time something similar happens you will find the ice gradually breaks.

Don't expect too much too soon. It's not the end of the world if you don't talk to everyone on the first meeting.


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## hopless500 (1 Aug 2013)

[quote="brodiej, post: 2576436, member: 28824"*]I must say I wouldn't tell a bunch of strangers on my first social get together* I have Aspergers - that would be awkward for all concerned and people would talk to you not because of who you are but because of your Aspergers

The point is, it isn't the first social get together. And he has been cycling with them for a year. And people tend to be more forthcoming and helpful if they know the reason for seeming aloofness or lack of participation (or whatever you would like to call it).

As Matthew says in an earlier post, "this has happened before at the pub, and pretty much on every ride."


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## brodiej (1 Aug 2013)

That's not how I read it

He never said "this has happened before at the pub"

He said the ride was normal.

The pub trip was to celebrate someone's birthday - so presumably a one off.

I have kept myself to myself on rides - a lot of people have.

In a pub environment a little more circulating and conversation is normal although there's nothing wrong with being quiet and sitting on the edge. I certainly wouldn't bring up Aspergers


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## hopless500 (1 Aug 2013)

brodiej said:


> That's not how I read it
> 
> He never said "this has happened before at the pub"
> 
> ...


 

Not the first post. I suggest reading his post #18.....where he says precisely that.


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## Rob3rt (1 Aug 2013)

I think often a bigger deal is made of aspergers (in general, not particularly Matthews case) than is necessary. Therefore there is no immediate need to put this out there whatsoever. Especially if you don't feel like you particularly want to, for whatever reason.


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## Brandane (1 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I think often a bigger deal is made of aspergers (in general, not particularly Matthews case) than is necessary. Therefore there is no immediate need to put this out there whatsoever. Especially if you don't feel like you particularly want to, for whatever reason.


 
+1 to this. Two of my nephews have aspergers, and it affects them in totally different ways. In the case of one of them, you couldn't meet a more sociable bloke!


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## annedonnelly (1 Aug 2013)

Maybe rather than confessing to having Aspergers Matthew could mention that he's a bit shy - maybe he's younger than other members - and ask someone to help him join in.

I'm hopeless in social situations like that but being older and wiser I don't much care any more.

I know that it can feel isolating and hurtful but if Matthew has been riding with them for a year it can't all be bad


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## Matthew_T (1 Aug 2013)

annedonnelly said:


> Maybe rather than confessing to having Aspergers Matthew could mention that he's a bit shy - *maybe he's younger than other members* - and ask someone to help him join in.


I am a hell of a lot younger than other members. There was at least 20 years difference between me and them. I think that is part of the problem, I just dont have the life experience to be able to input things into conversations.
I even find that when talking to people at college. I just run aground with what to say next.

If people are talking about something general, I might be able to get my foot in the door with a comment but convo's can quickly change direction and leave me without an input.

The Autism is something only a few members know about. Although the ones that do know can see me on my own but probably dont know how to handle the situation. I bet they think that introducing me into a conversation would scare me or that I just like to be on my own. Neither is true.
Admittedly I often do prefer my own company (when actually cycling for example), but at very social occasions I like to be part of it.


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## Mr Haematocrit (1 Aug 2013)

Paddled that boat Matthew  , I have been in similar situations many times when I was younger, not at all nice and I'm really not in a position to offer wisdom or advise, but it does get easier as you get older though.


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## Silver Fox (2 Aug 2013)

Matthew, don't let one bad experience put you off club riding. You're not a million miles away from Delamere so if you fancy playing out on a mtb there are club runs round the forrest from the visitor centre every thursday at 6.30pm, rain or shine.

All abilities are catered for, I guarantee you'll be made to feel welcome and will have a good time.

PM me if you're interested.


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2013)

You like the riding, but don't like the socializing.

Do one and don't do the other.


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