# disc brakes in cyclocross at last



## jpembroke (14 Oct 2010)

'bout time!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/disc-brakes-and-cross-bikes-coming-soon-to-a-store-near-you


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## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2010)

Maybe they'll now see sense and allow them on road bikes too.


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## iAmiAdam (14 Oct 2010)

Nah, I don't think they'll allow them on road bikes, there's not a vast need for them imo.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2010)

iAmiAdam said:


> Nah, I don't think they'll allow them on road bikes, there's not a vast need for them imo.


More powerful brakes, better modulation meaning less chance of a lock-up, lighter rims that will last about ten times longer.

What's not to like?


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## iAmiAdam (14 Oct 2010)

Why fix something that isn't broken though?

Surely there's more chance of failure with disc brakes? Sorry, Don't know much about them myself. I assume they run on some sort of hydraulic type thing? or are we talking about the cable operated ones?


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## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2010)

iAmiAdam said:


> Why fix something that isn't broken though?
> 
> Surely there's more chance of failure with disc brakes? Sorry, Don't know much about them myself. I assume they run on some sort of hydraulic type thing? or are we talking about the cable operated ones?


It's not a question of fixing something that isn't broken, but of greatly improving something we already have. The first disc brakes I experienced were cable operated on a motorcycle, and the improvement over drums was dramatic.

I always find it ridiculous that you can walk into Halfords and pay £99 for a bike with better brakes than you get on a five grand state of the art road bike.


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## oldroadman (17 Oct 2010)

Actually we already have disc brakes on road bikes, the "disc" is simply the rim. There is no way I would want to be in a peloton of slightly less than confident bike handlers knowing that they have brakes even more powerful than the current type. And your comparison is hardly equal, the "disc" brakes on £100 MTBs are nowhere near the performance of top quality brake systems.
Rims lighter than now will simply result in more breakages, that's something for weightweenies, not people who want to compete on light but reliable kit.
All that said, I have no doubts it will come eventually, and the mix of systems in a road race will cause all manner of problems!


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## MacB (17 Oct 2010)

To be honest as long as they hit the cyclocross/commuter/audax/sportive/leisure road bike market then that'll be enough in the way of sales to push the design aspects forward. I don't have any experience of road racing, bunch riding, but could you see an adoption of disc brakes on training(Winter particualrly) bikes? Or would the disparity of training on one brake and racing on another be too much?


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## frank9755 (17 Oct 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> Maybe they'll now see sense and allow them on road bikes too.



This comes up a lot, but is generally suggested by mountain bikers rather than those who race on the road.

There are three issues:

- Current rim brakes are adequate for road riding. I can't recall ever wanting to have had stronger brakes while riding on a road. Skids lead to falls and stronger brakes are more likely to lock up wheels. For this reason, many V-brakes on cheaper (on-road) bikes have adjustments made to make them weaker but with better modulation. 

- Stronger brakes in a race = dangerous
The last thing you want when riding in a bunch is to give someone the ability to stop dead. That would be dangerous; it would cause pile-ups and injuries. Remember that, for this reason, track bikes have no brakes at all. 

- Weight. Not mainly that of the disc brake mechanism, but of the heavier duty fork and wheels that would be needed to use discs.

I've never ridden cyclocross but it seems to me that discs make great sense for that application, where muddy rim brakes are bound to lose effectiveness.


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## oldroadman (18 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> This comes up a lot, but is generally suggested by mountain bikers rather than those who race on the road.
> 
> There are three issues:
> 
> ...



+ lots, spot on. Not needed.


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## snailracer (18 Oct 2010)

The main reason disc brakes are not on road bikes is the conservatism of the UCI. They want bikes to look and work like they did in the "good old days", which is why bikes still have diamond frames and handlebars a certain way.

Road bikes would look nothing like they do now, if the UCI stopped dictating to manufacturers how to design them. Sorry, but current road bikes do not look like they do to go fast, but to look pretty.


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## MacB (18 Oct 2010)

snailracer said:


> The main reason disc brakes are not on road bikes is the conservatism of the UCI. They want bikes to look and work like they did in the "good old days", which is why bikes still have diamond frames and handlebars a certain way.
> 
> Road bikes would look nothing like they do now, if the UCI stopped dictating to manufacturers how to design them. Sorry, but current road bikes do not look like they do to go fast, but to look pretty.




That's an interesting take on it, it's not a subject I know a huge amount about, general reading on the web does seem to return the idea that, 'they're made this way coz it's been proven to be the best design'. I'd be very interested to follow some links to alternate ideas etc.


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## andrew_s (18 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> - Current rim brakes are adequate for road riding. I can't recall ever wanting to have had stronger brakes while riding on a road.



Do we take it that you only ride in the dry?
Current rim brakes are a long way from adequate in moderate or heavy rain.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2010)

Let's nail one thing straight away. More powerful brakes do not lead to wheel lock-ups, quite the reverse in fact because the decrease in effort needed to apply the same amount of force allows a better feel and more controlled braking. That's how it works with cars and motorcycles. Stopping dead is impossible because your tyres wouldn't allow it. Weight isn't an issue because pro teams often have to add weight to their bikes to bring them up to the UCI minimum.

Having done road racing there would be no problem, in fact it would be safer for the reason stated above. A peloton with some riders on discs and some on rim brakes (which would only be for a short time anyway) would not cause problems, just as it didn't when the more powerful dual pivot brakes replaced the single pivot which were very weak in comparison. It will come, and after a short while we will look at rim brakes as a fairly quaint antiquity.


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## tigger (18 Oct 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> More powerful brakes, better modulation meaning less chance of a lock-up, lighter rims that will last about ten times longer.
> 
> What's not to like?




+ 1 for use on road bikes. Even top end current brake performance is terrible comparatively. I have a 1.5 mile -7% decent on one of my routes. I was out in medium wet conditions the other day and felt lucky to be alive afterwards!

So long as there is good modulation the extra stopping power will not cause problems in a peloton I think. And the weight is reduced from the rim as Joe says. So better rotational performance + stopping power = better racing!

The UCI haven't allowed discs on the road because they're concerned it evolves the bike too much I understand... crazy

One question - where will all the fluid be stored? Is there enough room in the hoods?


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## frank9755 (18 Oct 2010)

andrew_s said:


> Do we take it that you only ride in the dry?
> Current rim brakes are a long way from adequate in moderate or heavy rain.



Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!

Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet


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## MacB (18 Oct 2010)

tigger said:


> One question - where will all the fluid be stored? Is there enough room in the hoods?



Not currently so you're either looking at mechanical disc brakes or some sort of reservoir under the stem with pistons actuated via standard brake cables, I've seen pictures of one that Hope did.

I think you'd see a split here of hydraulic at the top end and cable further down and also cable for the touring/commuting market. But I have no experience of dealing with hydraulic brakes and maybe I'm just being too conservative in my attitudes. I like stuff that I can self maintain with minimal faff and hydraulics don't seem to fit that bill.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2010)

I doubt we'll see hydraulic systems on road bikes. Cable systems would be adequate for power, lighter and need less maintenance


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## tigger (18 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!
> 
> Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
> ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet




Hmm not sure... if anything a really skinny tyre cuts through water better than a wider one, i.e. less likely to aquaplane. I race kite buggys and we use the skinniest tyres we can get away with on hard wet beaches.. Sure you don't want to lock up, but provided theres a wide band of modulation this should be avoidable


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2010)

All the arguments about locking wheels and riders being launched over the handlebars were being trotted out when disc brakes first appeared on motorcycles. No one would dream of buying a bike without them now.


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## snailracer (18 Oct 2010)

MacB said:


> That's an interesting take on it, it's not a subject I know a huge amount about, general reading on the web does seem to return the idea that, 'they're made this way coz it's been proven to be the best design'. I'd be very interested to follow some links to alternate ideas etc.


Google:
Trek Y-foil
Zipp 2001 & 3001

They look a bit like TT/Triathlon bikes do today, but then if the UCI rules were not as restrictive, today's TT bikes would probably all be recumbents...


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## frank9755 (18 Oct 2010)

tigger said:


> Hmm not sure... if anything a really skinny tyre cuts through water better than a wider one, i.e. less likely to aquaplane. I race kite buggys and we use the skinniest tyres we can get away with on hard wet beaches.. Sure you don't want to lock up, but provided theres a wide band of modulation this should be avoidable




Yes, I agree that the thinner tyre cuts through water better and acquaplaning is more likely on fatter tyres, but even mountain bike tyres are too thin to acquaplane: you can't aquaplane on bike tyres unless you get to something like 90mph! (The maths is on Sheldon's site / elsewhere if you're interested) 

Fatter tyres, which are run at lower pressures, do have more grip.


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## jpembroke (18 Oct 2010)

when are we going to get ABS brakes on bikes then? Seriously! It's gonna happen at some point


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## tigger (19 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Fatter tyres, which are run at lower pressures, do have more grip - in the dry.




Fixed that for you


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## andrew_s (19 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!
> 
> Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
> ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet



The problem with rim brakes in the wet is that you get very little braking at all until the brakes have cleared the water off the rims. You might not mind brakes that don't work for a second or two after you've applied them, but I do.
I have seen it so wet that the brakes can't clear the rims at all, with consequent runaway down a steep hill and written off bike and broken pelvis at the bottom.


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## Ghost Donkey (28 Oct 2010)

Interesting one for cyclocross bikes. I've not ridden cyclocross (yet) but as MTBs don't have problems running them then it would make sense on the face of it. The issue with sharp breaking and riding in a bunch, particularly at the start, would be the same any of the other reasons the race bunches with lots of riders in there together riding differently to each other to vvarying degrees.


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## NickM (29 Oct 2010)

MacB said:


> I'd be very interested to follow some links to alternate ideas etc.


Like this?

The diamond frame bicycle reached its essential form years ago; only new materials have appeared since. If it's real innovation you're interested in, you have to look beyond the sport controlled by the dead hand of the UCI.

Mike Burrows (he's 67, you know!) rode 28.54 miles in one hour on the machine linked in August 2009.

And its (single) brake is crap!


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## JoysOfSight (29 Oct 2010)

On the old bike I had a Dura-Ace dual caliper, with special pads on one of the (expensive!!) Mavic ceramic Open Pros at the front.

It was such a relief to start riding with a front disc!

I can understand why people are afraid, and I'm sure there will always be the option of running a rim brake (just as you can still buy V's for off-road). But I think the cyclocross decision will really drive road discs forward, excellent.


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## jack the lad (29 Oct 2010)

What's not to like about disc brakes?

Hydraulic discs are virtually maintenance free until the pads are worn and then they are simple to replace and require no setting up. Performance is consistent in all weathers, no sudden grab as water and dirt is dispersed like rim brakes. They can be very powerful but controllable and easy to modulate. They are not heavy now and I'm sure that pure road versions could be made even lighter and the weight is concentrated in the centre of the wheel . They would allow rim designers scope to develop lighter but stronger rims as there would be no need to compromise design to provide the materials and shapes required for braking surfaces. 

As long as a sport is competitive it doesn't matter what equipment people are using, but it is strange that cycling manufacturers don't put pressure on to allow more technical development as that would drive innovation and allow them to sell more bikes and kit. 

On the other hand, why should ordinary road riders allow themselves to be limited by the rules for road racing if there is better technology available. There is no reason why there should not be divergence - if something works in the real world let racers keep their increasingly anachronistic machines and adopt the new technology for yourself.


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## MartinC (29 Oct 2010)

jack the lad said:


> What's not to like about disc brakes?



Well if you're in the road environment that the UCI regulate:

The brake fade 'cos a disc can't disperse the heat generated in an alpine descent.

The overweight forks that are required to use them.

The issues with compatibility and quick wheel changes.


When these get sorted out then the manufacturers and riders will pressurise the UCI to change (like in cyclo cross).


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## Smokin Joe (29 Oct 2010)

MartinC said:


> Well if you're in the road environment that the UCI regulate:
> 
> The brake fade 'cos a disc can't disperse the heat generated in an alpine descent.
> 
> ...


Brake fade in the heat? Have you ever seen a 150 kilo GP motorcycle nearly stand on it's nose as the rider brakes from 220mph down to 40 when the track temperature is 40c +?

Forks would not need to be "overweight". Bikes already have to have weight added to come up to the UCI minimum.

Having discs would only marginally slow wheel changes if at all as the wheel just drops straight out. Compatibility doesn't cause problems with different teams using Campag/Shimano/10/11 speed now.


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## MartinC (29 Oct 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> Brake fade in the heat? Have you ever seen a 150 kilo GP motorcycle nearly stand on it's nose as the rider brakes from 220mph down to 40 when the track temperature is 40c +?
> 
> Forks would not need to be "overweight". Bikes already have to have weight added to come up to the UCI minimum.
> 
> Having discs would only marginally slow wheel changes if at all as the wheel just drops straight out. Compatibility doesn't cause problems with different teams using Campag/Shimano/10/11 speed now.



We're talking about the braking heat generated on a long descent on a lightweight bicycle disk. I've never used disk brakes in these circumstance so I'm only going on what others have reported. I'm not sure that the analogy you quote is too relevant. It may be that future disc brakes could be developed to overcome this within the acceptable weight parameters.

Forks for disc brake have to be stronger (i.e. heavier) than forks for rim brakes. Manufacturers still compete to make their own components lighter even though complete bikes can get past the UCI limit relatively easily now.

Any wheel from a neutral service car will go in any bike (at the cost of of a poor gearchange if it's a C/S mismatch). Adding potential rotor spec differences makes this far more problematic and wheel changes slower.

The point I and others make is that there's already a simple, effective and light braking solution in place (unlike cyclocross) so there isn't a problem to solve. Any new solution has to offer significant advantage for it to be taken up - and discs don't do this yet. The bottom line is that manufacturers and the pro peleton can't be bothered with them yet, it's only an issue for forum posters. 



edit for typo


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## andrew_s (29 Oct 2010)

Overheating on alpine descents is a problem mainly experienced by the slow descender. 
A plummet and stop braking style gets rid of most of the energy on air resistance. If you go down slowly it all goes into the brakes.

Overheating is just as much of a problem with rim brakes - tyres blow off, tub glue softens and the tyre rolls off the rim (just ask Joseba Beloki).


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## zigzag (31 Oct 2010)

here is an interesting read how this type of setup could solve overheating issue. i am currently looking for road bike carbon forks for disc brakes, but they don't seem to exist (at least no one sells them separately).


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## MartinC (1 Nov 2010)

andrew_s said:


> Overheating on alpine descents is a problem mainly experienced by the slow descender.
> A plummet and stop braking style gets rid of most of the energy on air resistance. If you go down slowly it all goes into the brakes.
> 
> Overheating is just as much of a problem with rim brakes - tyres blow off, tub glue softens and the tyre rolls off the rim (just ask Joseba Beloki).




Yes - brake hard and then let it run is definitely the best technique. Air resistance won't slow you quickly but the intermittent braking gives the rims time cool. Normally a tub with hard rim cement that's properly set will survive - I'm not sure what caused Beloki's problem. Clinchers v. tubs could be a whole new debate! 

It would be interesting to see some real world data on heat dissipation. I stiil think the real bar is that rim brakes work well enough and no-one wants the harsh ride from forks beefed up to handle hub braking. Unless disc brakes offer a competitive advantage there's no motivation to use them.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Nov 2010)

MartinC said:


> I stiil think the real bar is that rim brakes work well enough and no-one wants the harsh ride from forks beefed up to handle hub braking. Unless disc brakes offer a competitive advantage there's no motivation to use them.


Beefed up forks would not give a harsher ride, quite the opposite in fact. Thin walled tubing transmits more vibration through to the rider because there is less material to absorb it.


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## MartinC (2 Nov 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> Beefed up forks would not give a harsher ride, quite the opposite in fact. Thin walled tubing transmits more vibration through to the rider because there is less material to absorb it.




Ah, but forks that handle the braking torque at the hub have to be less compliant than forks that don't.


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## Dave5N (6 Nov 2010)

Beloki crashed, IIRCC, when he hit a patch of molten tar.


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## oldroadman (8 Nov 2010)

Motorcycle discs fade on descents - I know from experience. They are thick, ventilated, ABS'd and large diameter, and can still fade. The hard application/run and cool technique can mitigate this, but eventually you brake hard after a series of corners and they start to fast very quickly. So sorry, I cannot see how a small lightweight and relatively thin disc will work when descending at 80/90 kph and braking on long (6/7 km +) descents. Whereas rim brakes dissipate heat and work fine. The tub glue argument is spurious, in the old days it sometimes happened, but with a correctly applied tub/glue it won't.
This is a classic case of "it ain't broke, why fix it". For MTB and cross, with mud at the tyre, tere can be seen to be a reason, but not on the road. It's simply a marketing ploy - a bit like Mr Bell decided they could sell hardshell helmet by making cycling sound much more hazardous then it actually is - but don't get me started on that one....


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## Mr Celine (8 Nov 2010)

oldroadman said:


> This is a classic case of "it ain't broke, why fix it".



Perhaps because some people think it is broke. Having switched this year from a flat bar Spesh Sirrus with v brakes to a Spesh Roubaix with dual pivots I have to say that in my experience dual pivots are rubbish in comparison to v brakes. However, that's my personal opinion based on the conditions in which I ride, which do not involve alpine descents but do sometimes involve having to stop or slow down suddenly, which I for one simply can't manage on dual pivots. So bring on discs (or even just v brakes for road levers).


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## MartinC (9 Nov 2010)

Mr Celine said:


> Perhaps because some people think it is broke. Having switched this year from a flat bar Spesh Sirrus with v brakes to a Spesh Roubaix with dual pivots I have to say that in my experience dual pivots are rubbish in comparison to v brakes. However, that's my personal opinion based on the conditions in which I ride, which do not involve alpine descents but do sometimes involve having to stop or slow down suddenly, which I for one simply can't manage on dual pivots. So bring on discs (or even just v brakes for road levers).



Maybe. Your conclusions seem to be based on a small sample though. If you have trouble stopping or slowing down with dp's then they aren't good ones. There are differences. I've replaced unbranded dp's on bikes and seen enormous improvements - there are some bad ones out there. I've had to ease off the brake lever to stop an endo with dp's in an emergency stop.

I don't think anyone's saying that in general dp's are more powerful then discs. What they are sauing is that good dp's offer enough braking power for a road bike and that there are significant downsides to discs.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Nov 2010)

I wouldn't agree that dp's offer good enough performance already, there is room for considerable improvement. The only drawback I have heard of with discs is the supposed overheating problem which any half decent designer could engineer out, as has been done on cars and motorcycles. Remember the vehicles in race support convoys are keeping pace with the riders on Alpine descents with considerably more weight to stop and they manage ok.

It'll come and we'll all be on them in the not too distant (along with electronic shifters).


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## MartinC (9 Nov 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wouldn't agree that dp's offer good enough performance already, there is room for considerable improvement. The only drawback I have heard of with discs is the supposed overheating problem which any half decent designer could engineer out, as has been done on cars and motorcycles. Remember the vehicles in race support convoys are keeping pace with the riders on Alpine descents with considerably more weight to stop and they manage ok.
> 
> It'll come and we'll all be on them in the not too distant (along with electronic shifters).




I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this 'cos I can't see any of your points.

Dp's already supply enough braking power - that's why they've reverted to singles on the back. If you can lock the wheel then more power at the brake is irrelevant. I'm not sure what performance improvement you're looking for, the limiting factor is tyre adhesion already

You can engineer in more heat dissipation by giving the disk a bigger diameter, that's good 'cos there's already two 622mm discs on the bike already, you could use them. But how do you engineer in the extra torque resistance at the fork blade without making it less compliant and heavier. How do you engineer in aerodynamics? Cars often have trouble following the bikes down mountains and sometimes burn their brakes out - they don't manage OK. Performance motorbikes and cars have massive discs.

I can see the point of discs on an MTB with muddy rims, front suspension and fat tyres. I can see the point too in cross where the mud clearance issue makes you use either V's compromised by the STI/Ergo levers or low profile cantis with low mechanical advantage. Offering disc brakes on a good road bike is offering more weight, less comfort, less aerodynamics and brake fade in exchange for no extra braking function.


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## oldroadman (9 Nov 2010)

MartinC said:


> I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this 'cos I can't see any of your points.
> 
> Dp's already supply enough braking power - that's why they've reverted to singles on the back. If you can lock the wheel then more power at the brake is irrelevant. I'm not sure what performance improvement you're looking for, *the limiting factor is tyre adhesion* already
> 
> ...



As anyone who has raced where mountain descents are a regular feature will confirm, it's useless being able to lock wheels up, modulated braking is what's needed, and top class DR brakes can do all of that.
Correct that some cars and motos do have brake fade in the mountains, and that with big ventilated discs and six pad calipers. Again a limiting factor is tyre adhesion, which is MUCH HIGHER than on a tub or race HP. believe me, brake fade on a TV/press moto with a 90kg cameraman and all his kit, plus a 250kg moto and rider, is the cause of considerable thought when approaching a hairpin!


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## DrSquirrel (15 Dec 2010)

MTB / Cyclocross = use brakes a lot

Road = use brakes rarely


Think how often you actually use your brakes? If its really about having the most power(heat dispiation or whatnot) regardless of how often you use it, why don't you lot have more than two brakes like you would if you were on a tandem etc etc...


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## Rob3rt (15 Dec 2010)

More a question than a statement, go gentle.

If they move over to disc's:

Wont the forks need to be stronger and thus likely end up heavier than present?
Wont the wheels now need more spokes to deal with the forces applied near the hub resulting in the avoidance of low spoke count radial laced wheels (weight will be increased here)?

Will the saving from the rim brake system actually offset these factors?

On another note: You can go over the handlebars or lock a wheel pretty easy on normal road brakes if you arent running absolute sh*te/cheese brakes! I know, I did it, the result, superman style impact with a car pulling into my path! So I dont see why people are too concerned with the stopping power of a disc brake, with (theoretically) well trained and skilled athletes at the controls, are brakes locking or increased braking power really something to be overly concerned with.



In your responses, please bear in mind I do not race bikes, have only riden in a pack once and know nothing about disc brakes!


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## oldroadman (17 Dec 2010)

The danger is not so great in CX, where although p[eople will have a mixture of brakes - mostly rim based - they are often far enough apart to avoid problems and you can expect a few "offs" anyway.
The problem if they ever (please, not) get legal for road racing is the differences in power. There are enough new numpties in lower cat races who slam on for little reason, without them having overpowered braking capability to cause accidents!


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## Smokin Joe (17 Dec 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> More a question than a statement, go gentle.
> 
> If they move over to disc's:
> 
> ...


Again the old myth that more power means it is more likely to lock the wheels.

The opposite is true, more power = better control because you can apply a more sensitive force to the lever. There were far more lock-ups when cars used drum brakes because you lost all senses of feel when your foot was jammed to the floor trying to generate enough stopping power. The same is true of bikes, using a couple of fingers on the lever leads to greater confidence and sensitivity than having to wrap your fist around it.


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## mickle (17 Dec 2010)

I've been waiting patiently for road bike discs for years. Bring 'em on I say. If designers simply made road bike disc brakes to be as powerful as existing brakes there would still be plenty of performance advantages. Imagine dinky little vented carbon or ceramic coated alloy discs. OMG.

A road bike disc-brake set-up - if engineered to provide the same braking power in the dry as today's rim actuating calipers - would be significantly lighter, more than compensating for any extra material required in the fork.

Excusing the rim from brake-track duties would allow it to be much lighter. Removing weight from the outside of the wheel is the holy grail of component designers and this weight saving will more than compensate for a return to crossed spokes over radial.

Wet condition braking - say no more.

'Cable' routing - you have to be very mindful of smooth cable runs and gentle curves when stringing a bike. Hydraulic hose can be plumbed with right angles - if required - with no discernible loss of efficiency. Discs could allow for internal routing all the way to the caliper. Clean, tidy and aero.

As for wheel swap compatability - it just won't be an issue. Shimano will dictate the standard and everyone else will have to fall in to line, as per yewge.

No, the biggest barrier to the widespread adoption of discs brakes on road bikes is the peleton themselves - who are often very suspicious of new technology. How long did it take Shaun Kelly to accept clip-in pedals? Years.


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## zigzag (17 Dec 2010)

the more i know about bikes the more disappointed i am about the lack of progress. when i go to cycle show it's the same boring stuff year after year. bike friendly gps units are very welcome invention as well as cheap and powerful led lights. but what concerns the bikes/bike parts - there is nothing to be excited about. road disc brakes would be a huge leap forward, providing they are engineered properly. i'm sure it will happen, and i'd like it sooner rather than later.


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## Smokin Joe (17 Dec 2010)

zigzag said:


> the more i know about bikes the more disappointed i am about the lack of progress. when i go to cycle show it's the same boring stuff year after year. bike friendly gps units are very welcome invention as well as cheap and powerful led lights. but what concerns the bikes/bike parts - there is nothing to be excited about. road disc brakes would be a huge leap forward, providing they are engineered properly. i'm sure it will happen, and i'd like it sooner rather than later.


Progress has been made illegal by the UCI Blazers.


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## Norm (17 Dec 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> So I dont see why people are too concerned with the stopping power of a disc brake, with (theoretically) well trained and skilled athletes at the controls, are brakes locking or increased braking power really something to be overly concerned with.


For me, (in addition to everything that Smokin' Joe says) the most important difference is kinda hidden away in the middle of mickle's reply.



mickle said:


> Wet condition braking - say no more.


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