# London-Edinburgh-London 2013: The thread



## Arch (23 Feb 2010)

Right. Anyone mad enough to be even considering the LEL 2013, pile in here, and hopefully any questions can be answered, training plans shared, and fevered brows mopped.

Edit: If anyone would like to appear on the potential particpants map, PM me with an approximate location (/village/town/city name will do) and I'll add you. I'll assume it's ok to label with your forum name, unless you ask otherwise.

The map is here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie...6088710563736732072.0004805b07a6256f45c55&z=6


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## MacB (23 Feb 2010)

My preparation is complete, I asked Jane if I could do it and she said yes


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## Arch (23 Feb 2010)

Posted by Arallsopp in the touring section thread:



> I was not, and am not a member of AudaxUK. There were no qualifying rides, and a reasonable contingent got around so I'm guessing that won't change.
> 
> I can share my (intended) training calendar if you fancy, but it'll only kick in for the final 6 months before the event. I didn't manage to join any organised events (even missing the dun run) but would recommend a few FNRttCs or overnight rides.
> 
> ...


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Feb 2010)

Awww, g'wan then. Put my name down.


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## ianrauk (23 Feb 2010)

Me too....


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## dmoan (23 Feb 2010)

I am most definitely in. Pain and glory awaits...


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## Ashaman42 (23 Feb 2010)

I'm a definite-maybe 

Only cycled 180 miles last year but already on track to beat that since I started cycling again a couple of weeks ago. 

Arallsopp's account has inspired me to start cycling again (even if just a few commutes so far).


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## darkstar (23 Feb 2010)

I would love to do it, i'll be 24 by then so should be old enough. Want to get an ironman under my belt first though. 3 years is a long time in the future, so things may change.


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## PpPete (23 Feb 2010)

I'm in.

But forgive my ignorance .... who (in the context of this forum) are the mousketeers? Been seeing references to it in sigs, but never thought to ask before.

Can we ask Panter to do a map of all those who are intending to take part, it might aid planning joint training rides?


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## MacB (23 Feb 2010)

porkypete said:


> I'm in.
> 
> But forgive my ignorance .... who (in the context of this forum) are the mousketeers? Been seeing references to it in sigs, but never thought to ask before.
> 
> Can we ask Panter to do a map of all those who are intending to take part, it might aid planning joint training rides?



do one silly ride, get lost a lot and you're a Mouseketeer, most of us probably qualify by default anyway. If you're a traditionalist then the ride should have Aperitif or Arallsop navigating, better yet both together with their Garmins. This has been proven to be the most successful method for turning a direct route into the TDF

Seriously it was just a tongue in cheek comment about some of the silly rides/distances, that stuck. It seemed to originate around the night rides to the coast and the opinion, of a few, that it would be rude not to cycle home again as well. Cue ever increasing distances, I maxed out at 167 miles and came to the conclusion that 120, in one hit, was enough. Others have gone well beyond that mark


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## Keith Oates (24 Feb 2010)

That was a question I always intended to ask but never got around to doing it, thanks for the explanation, MacB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PalmerSperry (24 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Right. Anyone mad enough to be even considering the LEL 2013, pile in here, and hopefully any questions can be answered, training plans shared, and fevered brows mopped.



Oh count me in! Just need to decide what bike I'd be wanting to do it on. The Focus Culebro I'll (hopefully) be doing an SR series on this year, or should I resurrect & upgrade the Giro 26 for an event of that length? Or should I just get another bike? (Is LEL a good enough excuse for n=h+1? )

Oh yeah, it would probably be a good idea if I actually managed to finish a 200 before then - 3x DNFs out of 3 starts is my record so far!

Between then and now I hope to complete 4x SR series, and I might try my luck at the 1000km event in OberÖstereich in July 2012 too. (Though that goes over Großglockner, so it could influence the upright/'bent decision.)


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## Arch (24 Feb 2010)

Hello! Consider yourself counted...

With a recumbent on hand, I don't think I could consider doing such a long ride on an upright. Might be slower uphill, but think of the downs!(esp on a trike)

Porky, that's a good idea on the map - I can set up a google map. So if anyone wants to PM me a vague location (city/town will do I reckon, for privacy), I'll plot people. (or I can take locations from profiles, but I think maybe better for people to actively PM me if they want in....)


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Feb 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Oh count me in! Just need to decide what bike I'd be wanting to do it on. The Focus Culebro I'll (hopefully) be doing an SR series on this year, or should I resurrect & upgrade the Giro 26 for an event of that length? Or should I just get another bike? (Is LEL a good enough excuse for n=h+1? )
> 
> Oh yeah, it would probably be a good idea if I actually managed to finish a 200 before then - 3x DNFs out of 3 starts is my record so far!
> 
> Between then and now I hope to complete 4x SR series, and I might try my luck at the 1000km event in OberÖstereich in July 2012 too. (*Though that goes over Großglockner*, so it could influence the upright/'bent decision.)



Kudos. My worst day on a (hired) bike so far.


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## Arch (24 Feb 2010)

OK, map created, link in first post. So far, there are two of us, and it's unlikely we'll manage many rides together on our current home turfs...


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## Nuncio (24 Feb 2010)

I'll probably do it. I enjoyed the 2009 edition and am looking to re-living it vicariously when Arallsopp's book on his experience of it is delivered.

It looks as if the route is going to be tweaked a little with a Redbridge start instead of Lee Valley, and keeping further east for longer (Spalding/Market Rasen/Humber Bridge/Pocklington before striking west to Barnard Castle.


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## PalmerSperry (25 Feb 2010)

GregCollins said:


> PalmerSperry][B said:
> 
> 
> > Though that goes over Großglockner[/B]
> ...



Well I've already entered the Glocknerkönig for this year - the sportive that's a race up Großglockner! Haven't ridden up Großglockner yet, but one my neighbours (who has done it) thinks I won't have any problems based on us riding up the Hundstein and Kitzbuhlerhorn together off-road.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

We are now five on the map. And three of us on mainland UK, hoorah! I'm a long way from anyone at the moment. Mind you, the distances we're thinking of doing, it's not so far. My idea for this summer was to ride to my Mum in Leicester, just over 100 miles. If I do this properly, I'll be able to ride to my sister in Winchester!


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## ChrisKH (25 Feb 2010)

Very tempting; I'm fifty that year. Will I be up to it?


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## Tim Bennet. (25 Feb 2010)

> I'm fifty that year. Will I be up to it?


Don't worry, I believe the average age for long distance events is nearer 55.


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## arallsopp (25 Feb 2010)

Morning all, and a very warm welcome to Nuncio.

What a marvellous thread. So glad to see this one getting legs. I am very much looking forward to meeting you in the flesh, and suspect that LEL won't be the first or last time that we ride together. 

Who's writing this one down, by the way? 

Andy.



MacB said:


> If you're a traditionalist then the ride should have Aperitif or Arallsop *navigating*



Well, think that's the first time I've ever heard it called _that_


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

ChrisKH said:


> Very tempting; I'm fifty that year. Will I be up to it?



Sounds like the ideal excuse!

Ok, it's coming together. You southern folk have a couple of clusters forming...


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## Scoosh (25 Feb 2010)

Tim Bennet. said:


> Don't worry, I believe the average age for long distance events is nearer 55.


So if the _average_ is 55, there must be quite a few who are quite a bit older .... like me .

I'm not sure I'm quite daft/senile enough to do LEL though ....




... yet .....


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

scoosh said:


> So if the _average_ is 55, there must be quite a few who are quite a bit older .... like me .
> 
> I'm not sure I'm quite daft/senile enough to do LEL though ....
> 
> ...



Yes, but in three years time?


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## PpPete (25 Feb 2010)

I'll be 55 in 2013.

Mum.... Mum.... will I be old to enough to go a on a long bike ride by then?


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## arallsopp (25 Feb 2010)

C'mon Scoosh! You're halfway there already 

At least say you'll come see us in Dalkeith


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## Davywalnuts (25 Feb 2010)

Am in, I want one of those LEL members only very very exclusive tops. Hopefully in a size medium by then...


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## Amanda P (25 Feb 2010)

It's crossed my mind as a vague possibility. Coupled with an equally vague plan of doing a few audaxes this year, does that qualify me?

Arch, you know where York-ish is. Put me on the map if you please.


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## arallsopp (25 Feb 2010)

Davywalnuts said:


> Am in



Oh Lordy. There goes Arch's dream of sailing past all and sundry whilst descending into Dalkeith. No one drops like Davy, size medium or (ahem) value.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> It's crossed my mind as a vague possibility. Coupled with an equally vague plan of doing a few audaxes this year, does that qualify me?
> 
> Arch, you know where York-ish is. Put me on the map if you please.



Hoorah! A northern training buddy at last!

York-ish is plotted.

I was just looking at your thread in Touring, and the discussion of the Wolds route, and thinking 150 miles round the Wolds, that sounds hard, but of course, I'll have to be doing laps of it when my training ramps up!


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## Davywalnuts (25 Feb 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Oh Lordy. There goes Arch's dream of sailing past all and sundry whilst descending into Dalkeith. No one drops like Davy, size medium or (ahem) value.



Oh oh, is it a good down-hill?? 

Yes, being its not a Fnrttc where I have to adear to the rules, the speed limiters will be off.. 155mph+, not a problem! Weeeeeeeeeehheeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Well I've already entered the Glocknerkönig for this year - the sportive that's a race up Großglockner! Haven't ridden up Großglockner yet, but one my neighbours (who has done it) thinks I won't have any problems based on us riding up the Hundstein and Kitzbuhlerhorn together off-road.



I did it on a hired road bike a couple of sizes too small for me, and wasn't prepared for how cold it was at thetop. On the right bike, with the right gear, you'll blitz it if you've done alpine passes off road.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

Davywalnuts said:


> Oh oh, is it a good down-hill??
> 
> Yes, being its not a Fnrttc where I have to adear to the rules, the speed limiters will be off.. 155mph+, not a problem! Weeeeeeeeeehheeeeeeeeeeeeee



Trouble is, you'll be in Inverness before you've stopped to turn round....

Part of my reason for wanting to use the trike is the descending. I'm a real chicken on two wheels, I just don't get the benefit. On the trike, I'll brake when my ears start to shear off...


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## Davywalnuts (25 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Trouble is, you'll be in Inverness before you've stopped to turn round....
> 
> Part of my reason for wanting to use the trike is the descending. I'm a real chicken on two wheels, I just don't get the benefit. On the trike, I'll brake when *my ears start to shear off*...



Inverness not on the route? I think too much like a Garmin 705 powerered by the 'teef! 

Cooooooooooll!!


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## Scoosh (25 Feb 2010)

arallsopp said:


> C'mon Scoosh! You're halfway there already
> 
> At least say you'll come see us in Dalkeith


Maybe I could use my bus pass to come to Dalkeith .... 

The bigger question would be whether 'twould be better done by DF or 'bent.
- DF I already have, 'bent not (yet )
- it's further to fall off a DF (been there, done that <_ouch_ _!_ smillie>
- it's easier to fall asleep on a 'bent 
- arallsop was going _very fast _on his Furai SL II
- arallsop cheated 'cos he'd done marathons before


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## PalmerSperry (25 Feb 2010)

scoosh said:


> Maybe I could use my bus pass to come to Dalkeith ....
> 
> The bigger question would be whether 'twould be better done by DF or 'bent.
> - DF I already have, 'bent not (yet )
> ...



Vaguely tough call ... I think the normal advice would be to use what you're used to, but in this case you've got ~3 years to _get_ used to a 'bent!

Speaking for myself, even though my plan for this year is to use the DF I aim to be doing LEL on a 'bent. Fortunately, I already have one (a Giro 26) but Furai SL2 is not without it's appeal! Though it occurs to me that for the extra €'s I need to spend to get one, I could probably shave off a decent chunk of the extra 2kg that the Giro26 has over it. (No, I can't find 2kg on me to get rid of instead!)

Extra : Some problems you can only learn about by experience - like my discovering that the Endura cycling trousers I had chafed badly when wet! Took the 2007 Dunwich Dynamo to learn that!


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## PalmerSperry (25 Feb 2010)

The London-Edinburgh-London site has what seems like a reasonable training pattern, would anyone care to suggest how to adapt that for someone living in a country where it could be the end of February before you can get out on the roads? Assume the existence of a turbo-trainer ...


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> The London-Edinburgh-London site has what seems like a reasonable training pattern, would anyone care to suggest how to adapt that for someone living in a country where it could be the end of February before you can get out on the roads? Assume the existence of a turbo-trainer ...



Just take the first week of March off, and do all the Jan/Feb rides then...


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## arallsopp (25 Feb 2010)

From memory, I didn't manage any 40+ mile rides until the beginning of March, and < 40 miles is what, 3 hours on a turbo? 

Something to bear in mind though, is that miles on a turbo are NOT miles on the road. They'll strengthen your legs, but not your mind. If you do need to turbo it, its possibly worth taking the turbo outside, and doing it in full rain gear / winter wear.

This is probably closer to my LEL experience... 

There are, of course, plenty who are better informed than me on this, and I'm sure each situation varies.


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## ttcycle (25 Feb 2010)

Arch, as per my post elsewhere - if I can get my health on track on this then I'm up for it but can't promise at this stage.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Arch, as per my post elsewhere - if I can get my health on track on this then I'm up for it but can't promise at this stage.



There's no compulsion - three years is a long way off, who knows what'll happen? Would you like me to put you on the map anyway?


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## Crackle (25 Feb 2010)

ChrisKH said:


> Very tempting; I'm fifty that year. Will I be up to it?



Me too. There is no way on earth I could manage this though.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

Crackle said:


> Me too. There is no way on earth I could manage this though.



Not even if we take turns to tow you?

I might need that myself!


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## Crackle (25 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Not even if we take turns to tow you?
> 
> I might need that myself!



I doubt it, that would still require me to stay awake. Unless you lend me your trike.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

<sees vision of CC team towing Crackle on comedy wheeled four poster bed>

Well, it would be different...


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## Ashaman42 (25 Feb 2010)

Now I'm imagining a group effort on a quadricycle, one of the big ones with a canvas roof and everything.


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## ttcycle (25 Feb 2010)

Yes that would be great Arch! This is shaping up nicely-what dates does it take place?


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## PalmerSperry (25 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> <sees vision of CC team towing Crackle on comedy wheeled four poster bed>
> 
> Well, it would be different...



Would it be considered an unfair advantage if said four poster bed came equipped for prepared and serving beans-on-toast?


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Yes that would be great Arch! This is shaping up nicely-what dates does it take place?



Your location is London, right? Can you narrow it down a bit - North, South, east, west, Buckingham Palace...?

Oh god I've just thought...

conference bike

Nooooooooooooooooooooooonononononononononononononononono!


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## longers (25 Feb 2010)

Can I suggest volunteering at a control for a couple of days, or more, or less if you don't want to or are unable to ride for any reason?


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## ttcycle (25 Feb 2010)

haha I've seen those in operation- they're weird- An LEL on one of those?!!

South East - I don't have Maggie's lovely wave- therefore pleb..nowhere near the palace for me.


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## Ian H (25 Feb 2010)

The proposal at the moment is for an entry limit of 750. For those who don't at present do long distance I suggest working up to fitness the season before.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

OK, random south east London location selected...

I've ridden a Conference bike, it's a hoot, but rather low geared. I suspect LEL would take 6 months....

Longers has a good point - it sounds from Andy's account like the volunteers at the controls were lifesavers, almost literally. Before I got the crazy idea of doing it, I was wondering about volunteering.


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## Arch (25 Feb 2010)

Ian H said:


> The proposal at the moment is for an entry limit of 750. For those who don't at present do long distance I suggest working up to fitness the season before.



Thanks for that info. And I'm certainly planning to work up well in advance!


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## ttcycle (25 Feb 2010)

It is a good idea- I'll see how things are going when I need to make a decision.


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## Ian H (25 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Thanks for that info. And I'm certainly planning to work up well in advance!



And thanks for starting this thread.


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## Ashaman42 (27 Feb 2010)

I'll probably post this in the gear section at some point too but what do people generally do for lights? 

I can imagine a jaunt like this needing a lot of batteries, are dynamo lights bright enough for unlit roads when doing a decent speed?


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## Arch (27 Feb 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> I'll probably post this in the gear section at some point too but what do people generally do for lights?
> 
> I can imagine a jaunt like this needing a lot of batteries, are dynamo lights bright enough for unlit roads when doing a decent speed?



Oh yes, I reckon so. Probably good to have battery back ups too, but I think modern Dynamo set ups can be pretty bright....

So much to think about!


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## Ashaman42 (27 Feb 2010)

I'm tempted by dyno lights, my current battery lights don't really cut it on unlit roads anyway and I think cost wise a decent battery set up won't be hugely cheaper than a dynamo.

Though a lot of dynamo lights are bolt on, not sure if you can get ones that come off the mount so you can take them with you.

<Ponder ponder>


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## Arch (27 Feb 2010)

Being bolted on, they are more secure, so you don't need to take them with you. It would be a determined and knowledgable thief who went to the trouble of stealing them. I've never had a moment's worry about the dynamo lights on my winter hack. My boss, who uses his bike as a test bed for the magazine ofen has two or three different sets on his daily use bike...

If you can afford it, and getting it built into a wheel, get a hub dynamo. Less resistance than a bottle dynamo, and less prone to slipping in the wet or getting clogged with mud. That's my upgrade for the winter hack once it's off duty, bottle to hub dynamo. They aren't that expensive, in the 40-50 quid range for the hub, depending on whether you need one with a hub brake too. And modern lights often have standlights, so they don't go off when you stop.

I'll be getting hub dynamo on my Galaxy too, eventually. And it would be nice on the trike too, esp if I'm going to be training on it! But I'm not sure of the logistics, what with a derailleur rear wheel and disk brake fronts...


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## Tynan (27 Feb 2010)

long way to ride with added drag ...

good batteries will light a good light for a very long time these days, no that much darkness in the summer


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## Ashaman42 (27 Feb 2010)

True, but it would solve the faff of batteries for my commute too.

And I have heard that the drag isn't particularly noticeable.


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## Tynan (27 Feb 2010)

faff? you serious? I've just recharged the two AAs in my decent 10led cateye after running in on flash for two hours a day for two months, still running decently then

I tried a fairly good bottle dynamo for a week or two and hated it, fitted by a good LBS and I had it checked by another, noticeable drag and noisey too

When I'm tired and struggling I want it all to be moving as smoothly as possible

it's around the house somewhere, along with a halogen front light, yours if you want, and I can find it


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## Arch (27 Feb 2010)

Tynan said:


> I tried a fairly good bottle dynamo for a week or two and hated it, fitted by a good LBS and I had it checked by another, noticeable drag and noisey too




Hence I recommend a hub dynamo. Drag is really not noticable, and no noise.


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## Ashaman42 (27 Feb 2010)

Well it's not that much faff day to day but I've currently got 4 lights running, each with 2 batteries, combine that with rechargables that don't hold a charge anymore and cold weather sapping the batteries so that I only get a few commutes (hour and a half each way). 

Admittedly the rear lights have lasted a goodly while it's the front ones that have been a pain especially on the unlit roads.

That's a kind offer on the dynamo but I was more thinking a hub system, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.


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## Ian H (27 Feb 2010)

I have a couple of Schmidt hub generator wheels and they're fine. Blindfolded and put on a bike I couldn't tell you whether it was running a Schmidt or not.*


*In the brief interval before I fell off.


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## Tynan (27 Feb 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> Well it's not that much faff day to day but I've currently got 4 lights running, each with 2 batteries, combine that with rechargables that don't hold a charge anymore and cold weather sapping the batteries so that I only get a few commutes (hour and a half each way).
> 
> Admittedly the rear lights have lasted a goodly while it's the front ones that have been a pain especially on the unlit roads.
> 
> That's a kind offer on the dynamo but I was more thinking a hub system, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.



this might sound bloody obvious but sort some new batteries and a decent charger, I've got a good front one with an Li On batery that plugs to mains, that runs on pulse for as they put it 'days' but even the spare blinky Solaris one goes for ages, your batteries sound shot to me

hub dynamo sounds different gravy but what output do you get from that?


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## MacB (27 Feb 2010)

Ian H said:


> I have a couple of Schmidt hub generator wheels and they're fine. Blindfolded and put on a bike I couldn't tell you whether it was running a Schmidt or not.*
> 
> 
> *In the brief interval before I fell off.


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## PalmerSperry (28 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> I'll be getting hub dynamo on my Galaxy too, eventually. And it would be nice on the trike too, esp if I'm going to be training on it! But I'm not sure of the logistics, what with a derailleur rear wheel and disk brake fronts...



+1 on the "hub dynamos are the way forwards" idea. My upright audaxer has a SON20R and, if I decide to use it for LEL, I'll fit one to the Giro26 too.

As for your trike, well there is a single-sided SON available these days and it requires disc brakes (rather than drums) which you've already got. OTOH, being a SON it's not exactly Shimano-price and whether it would work with the kingposts on a Trice of the vintage your's is I wouldn't know.


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## Arch (28 Feb 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> +1 on the "hub dynamos are the way forwards" idea. My upright audaxer has a SON20R and, if I decide to use it for LEL, I'll fit one to the Giro26 too.
> 
> As for your trike, well there is a single-sided SON available these days and it requires disc brakes (rather than drums) which you've already got. OTOH, being a SON it's not exactly Shimano-price and whether it would work with the kingposts on a *Trice of the vintage your's is* I wouldn't know.



Um, you're forgetting something. Something fluoro orange.

Tynan - Bottle dynamo 6v 3W. Hub dynamo 6v 3W.

All in all, it IS more convenient. No matter how simple and well organised your battery regime is. And those batteries require power to charge, power you pay for, however little, with a dynamo power is 'free', since you're riding anyway.

I don't have dynamoes on all my bikes, yet, but I wouldn't be without it on the winter hack, the one bike that is likely to need lights every day. I do still have battery lights for the summer bikes, which are less often ridden in the dark.

(Actually, my backup front light on the winter hack is a wind up one, so no batteries in that either).


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## LynnA (28 Feb 2010)

Hi All,

Late into the thread but hopefully I could be included too?  Arch, I'll pm you.


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## Arch (28 Feb 2010)

Of course!

And it's not really late - there are 3 years to go!


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## Fixedwheelnut (28 Feb 2010)

I'll be 50 as well and possibly mad enough for another go 

2005 photos London Edinburgh London and write up.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixedwheelnut/sets/72157602469146725/comments/


For lights I used a schmidt dyno hub with a back up light on the bars, you need a light that gives a decent throw of light to see the road as the decents of Yad Moss or the Moorfoot Hills in the dark can be quite dodgy with drops off the side.


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## arallsopp (1 Mar 2010)

Have the SON hub dynamo on both my bikes, and (having ridden it through streams and across beaches) swear by it. With a 60lux Cyo up front, it beats back all but the deepest darkness, and regularly keeps up with the Hopes and beams of the FNRttC. 

Actually on beams, it throws a very useful shape onto the floor ahead (ever present in the base of my flickbook vids), letting you catch potholes / animals / bedfellows well in advance.

Is it brighter than a very good MTB light with a fully charged bottle mount battery? No. But two hours later, it'll more than hold its own. 40 odd hours of unexpected night riding later, on unlit (and sometimes unmade) roads, without access to a power socket... Its starting to look very good indeed.

Flip side? Technically, I suppose it must add some drag, and it is notchy at very low speeds. There's a weight penalty too (minimised by its position in the centre of the wheel) but I should think it compares very favourably to a stack of AA batteries required to keep a similarly bright cateye alight.

IMHO, SONs are not comparable to bottle dynamos, and compare extremely favourably to other hub systems out there. I wouldn't be without mine. Its not that its always charged. Its that its always at *full* power.


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## Amanda P (1 Mar 2010)

I hadn't seen a SON in the flesh until a year or so ago, when we had an East Yorkshire night ride. Velocidad had one, and demonstrated it. Plenty of light, and he spun the wheel with the light switched on and switched off: no difference in the length of time it ran on for. (With a bottle dynamo, a spun wheel wouldn't spin on at all, it'd stop pretty much straight away).

I was convinced.

I now have a Shimano 3W dynamo hub on two of my bikes and a SON on a third. I wouldn't consider using anything else for something like LEL.


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## MacB (1 Mar 2010)

Another vote for the SON here, though I haven't even got one yet, it's on my shopping list. I'm actually looking at the 20R.


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## Amanda P (1 Mar 2010)

I accidentally bought on Ebay a 20" wheel with a narrow dynamo hub, built to fit a Dahon folder. When I put it up for sale again, someone contacted me about it who turned out to be an old school friend whom I hadn't see in 20 years. He had a Dahon folder, but had bought a SON 20R wheel which wouldn't fit it. 

We did a mutually beneficial deal. How lucky was that?

And back on topic...


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## Ashaman42 (1 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Flip side? Technically, I suppose it must add some drag, and it is notchy at very low speeds.



By notchy do you mean that at low speeds the light doesn't stay on constant (ie flickers) or that you can feel a notchiness through the wheel?

And is a very low speed 1mph, or 3mph or...?

Ta for the mini-review btw, not intending to sound negative


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## arallsopp (1 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> By notchy do you mean that at low speeds the light doesn't stay on constant (ie flickers) or that you can feel a notchiness through the wheel?
> 
> And is a very low speed 1mph, or 3mph or...?



Sorry Ashaman, what I meant was that if you hold the wheel in your hand and spin it, you can feel it resist where the magnets are. You can (sort of) feel this when you're going real slow, but its only in the very last milliseconds before the stop, or if you're trundling backwards / pushing the bike without weight on it.

I use a SON20 on a 24" wheel, and can't keep the 'bent upright at speeds below full brightness. I'd estimate 3mph for full power to the cyo. It does flicker for the first second when you pull away from a standstill, but this is only between the standlight (half bright) and main beam (full). Strobe is just on the edge of detection really, and only visible if you're close tailing a silver car.


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## Ashaman42 (2 Mar 2010)

Ah, all makes sense. 

Would having a dynamo wheel and a normal wheel (for times when I'll only be riding in daylight) work? I assume the cables unplug somewhere near the hub and a ziptie would stop the cable ends getting in the spokes.

I could google this but as I'm posting, how long does your standlight last assuming you've been riding a reasonable enogh time to allow it to charge?


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## arallsopp (2 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> Would having a dynamo wheel and a normal wheel (for times when I'll only be riding in daylight) work? How long does your standlight last assuming you've been riding a reasonable enogh time to allow it to charge?



Yep. The hub plumbs in with two spade connectors, so you could easily swap it out. Both my bikes came with standard wheels, and I had SON replacements built for this purpose. In practice, the SON creates so little drag, I've never bothered to put the originals back on, and recently stole the tube from one of them 

The weight (for a disc braked wheel) is pretty negligible.

Standlight at front runs for about 4 mins, after about 2 mins of riding.
Rear does a touch more.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> Ah, all makes sense.
> 
> Would having a dynamo wheel and a normal wheel (for times when I'll only be riding in daylight) work? I assume the cables unplug somewhere near the hub and a ziptie would stop the cable ends getting in the spokes.



I did that when commuting in London but once I'd put the dynohub wheel on I never got around to putting the normal one back on. Next bike (thank you cyclescheme etc.,) hand built wheels so getting a dynohub from the off.



Ashaman42 said:


> I could google this but as I'm posting, how long does your standlight last assuming you've been riding a reasonable enogh time to allow it to charge?



about 5 mins iirc. It's an LED and a capacitor I think so it doesn't guzzle


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## arallsopp (3 Mar 2010)

(Worth mentioning that the standlight is more of a 'be seen' than a 'see by' light. This makes a difference if you're trying to patch your bike up in the dark, and drop your bag of zipties. Its still plenty bright, but a bicycle is a lot harder to wave around than a torch.)


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## Ashaman42 (3 Mar 2010)

Well one of my current lights _is_ a torch and I'd have that either on the bars or in a pannier as a backup so should be ok on that front. 

Really rather tempted by a dynohub, and as we're coming in to spring I've got a nice amount of time to research and save up some pennies


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## Arch (3 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> (Worth mentioning that the standlight is more of a 'be seen' than a 'see by' light. This makes a difference if you're trying to patch your bike up in the dark, and drop your bag of zipties. Its still plenty bright, but a bicycle is a lot harder to wave around than a torch.)



Well, let's hope we don't all have to rebuild our bike with zipties eh?

Zipties, and gaffer tape. It's all the tools you need.


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## arallsopp (3 Mar 2010)

If they'd only make them with wider ratchets, I could forego the need to string a klunky and heavy chain up and down the bike too


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## PalmerSperry (3 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Well, let's hope we don't all have to rebuild our bike with zipties eh?



Is that not an essential part of the LEL experience then?



Arch said:


> Zipties, and gaffer tape. It's all the tools you need.



Alas, there are some bicycle faults which are beyond the restorative powers of even those great works. (Not my bike, nor my website BTW merely a blog I occassionally glance at.)


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Zipties, and gaffer tape. It's all the tools you need.



I'd add WD40/GT85 and a bottle opener


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## arallsopp (3 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Is that not an essential part of the LEL experience then?
> 
> Alas, there are some bicycle faults which are beyond the restorative powers of even those great works.



Gaffer tape, and (like GrumpyGreg says) a squirt of GT85 to stop the ends squeaking.


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## Tynan (3 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> with a dynamo power is 'free', since you're riding anyway.



erm ...

you can't point to one as a big thing and another as a small thing, suspect the hub arrangment will use fractionally more juice with the wiring and all

both piss all I suggest


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## Arch (4 Mar 2010)

Well, ok, as you're not interested in dynamoes, and apparently not up for the LEL, goodbye!

And yeah, that Baron's fine, just some gaffer tape and splints made from chopsticks...


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## Ashaman42 (4 Mar 2010)

And remember, if gaffer tape _doesn't_ fix it that only means one thing...you haven't used enough.


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## Arch (4 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> And remember, if gaffer tape _doesn't_ fix it that only means one thing...you haven't used enough.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Mar 2010)

or you need some stainless steel zip ties under the gaffer tape


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## Arch (4 Mar 2010)

GregCollins said:


> or you need some stainless steel zip ties under the gaffer tape



Jubilee clips are your other friend. And p-clips.

Hmm, I wonder how easy it would be to build a bike entirely out of bodges!


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## Tynan (4 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Well, ok, as you're not interested in dynamoes, and apparently not up for the LEL, goodbye!



As it happens I'm interested in both


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## Arch (4 Mar 2010)

Ok, and I'm sorry if that was a bit brusque.

Anyway, there seems to be a big thumbs-up for hub dynamoes...

BTW, why does the spellcheck insist I've got it wrong? it wants me to say dynamos. But it ends in o, like potato and tomato....


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## arallsopp (4 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> BTW, why does the spellcheck insist I've got it wrong? it wants me to say dynamos. But it ends in o, like potato and tomato....



I think it came into English through the German, and is probably short for something quite a lot longer, so the standard rules don't apply. I'm sure Auntie Helen will know.

Anyway, you can avoid the whole issue by saying SONs, which is the only hub dynamo I've any experience of. Afficionados wanting demos of these gizmos, should send hellos via memos, or limos with cappuccinos. Winos and whackos need not apply, for fear of fiascos.

oh, and back to Tynan's original point, yes, there is some drag, but it is 'free power'. Sure, it takes a little effort out of your legs, but then you do make a saving on brake pads.


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## Nuncio (4 Mar 2010)

And another vote from me for dynohubs on long Audaxos (). 

I'd also second the 'and winter commutes' nomination but that is less clearcut. It depends, amongst other things, on how much 'see' is required as opposed to 'be seen' on the commute. And you have to be a regular commuter to make it worthwhile financially. These would be the main considerations rather than drag (like the others, I don't notice it).

As well as a gradual improvement in the efficiency of dynohubs over several years, there has been a sharper increase in the efficiency of dyno-driven lights. I swapped from an just adequate B&M lumotech a couple of years ago to a B&M IQ Fly, which is plenty good enough but which was put in the shade (sorry) a year or so ago by the IQ Cyo.


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## Tynan (4 Mar 2010)

so is there drag or not, people have posted yes and no haven't they?
if i was flogging my guts, on my uppers on the LEL, I' not sure I'd be too interested in drag


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## Arch (4 Mar 2010)

Not nearly as much as a bottle dynamo. Minimal. Virtually unnoticable.

I think the fact that Arallsopp has done the LEL with one suggests that it's not a key problem. Hills, headwinds and having your bike held together with zipties are much more of an issue


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## arallsopp (4 Mar 2010)

Tynan, hard to say, mate.

If you *think* there's drag, there is. If you're looking for it, its there. On a tough day, everything drags. On a good day, I often find I've left the lamps on for the week and never realise.

There is drag. The SON less than others, but still measurably present. Whether its noticeable is subjective, and whether its worth it is relative. From what I could see, SONs are very common on long rides like LEL as at present there's really no cost effective alternative for what might be 40hrs of pitch black roads in counties unridden, without chargers, stars or moon. 

If someone came out with a £400 battery / lamp combo that would throw the same amount of light out with a lightweight battery, no memory effect, capable of running front and rear for 48 hrs between charges without dimming, I'd still keep the SON.


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## PalmerSperry (4 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> There is drag. The SON less than others, but still measurably present.



Alledgedly equivalent to 1 foot of climbing per mile with the light out, and 4 feet per mile with the light on. However those figures have been floating around for a while and presumably relate to a SON28 with a halogen bulb? A SON20R with a LED lamp should be lower on both camps?



arallsopp said:


> If someone came out with a £400 battery / lamp combo that would throw the same amount of light out with a lightweight battery, no memory effect, capable of running front and rear for 48 hrs between charges without dimming, I'd still keep the SON.



That would have to be a _very_ lightweight battery,  if we assume the same light emitting components then you'd got ~230grams to play with for your battery as that's the weight of the SON20R less the weight of a normal front hub. I don't think battery technology has advanced *that* much yet! And like you, I'd keep my SON thank you very much!


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## Bollo (4 Mar 2010)

The heart says yes, but the volvo'ed shoulder says no. The bum has started legal proceedings to get a restraining order on the heart, and the knees have written a threatening note from cut-out newspaper lettering and shoved it in the left ventricle. Very very tempted, but I know my limits; I'm a one-day specialist.

Arch - If you manage to get down to Winchester, PM me if you want to try some local rides. I'm like a Garmin 705 for Winchester routes, only without the personality.


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## Ian H (4 Mar 2010)

I've done LEL, PBP and longer rides with bottle dynamos. You just get on with it and ride. Last PBP was with a Schmidt hub. Much quieter, more reliable, less drag (though I suspect a lot of the 'drag' with bottle dynamos is imaginary, caused by the noise).


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## Fixedwheelnut (5 Mar 2010)

I honestly don't think drag really comes in to it, all I know is I can ride faster at night with a decent hub dynamo set up simply because I can see better.

For an equivalent light on batteries how many do you have to take? How often to stop and change them?

These are the sort of things you try out in your other Audax rides and see what works best for you, there is not really a right or wrong, just what is right for you.


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## longers (5 Mar 2010)

Do I remember rightly that no plug points were supposed to be used on the last LEL at controls for recharging of batteries?

It wasn't strictly enforced but that many riders relying on an uncertain but small number of sockets divided among the large number of riders would/could have caused disappointment for some.

I've got a dynamo hub and can only feel the drag when riding the bike round the workshop which has a very smooth floor with the light on.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Mar 2010)

longers said:


> Do I remember rightly that no plug points were supposed to be used on the last LEL at controls for recharging of batteries?



seriously? splendidly reactionary... or was it done simply to prevent the squabbling that would arise over such a scare resource? or to boost sales along the route.

How do peeps keep their GPS's going if they use fancy ones without removable batteries? PowerMonkey's all round?


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## Tim Bennet. (5 Mar 2010)

> (though I suspect a lot of the 'drag' with bottle dynamos is imaginary, caused by the noise)


It was the noise that caused me to change. On hilly audax rides, it wasn't too bad as the pitch constantly varied, but one night there was a long flat section, and the constant, steady whining did my head in.


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## Nuncio (5 Mar 2010)

> and the constant, steady whining did my head in.



Are you sure that was the dynamo? Some riding companions have the the same effect.


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## arallsopp (5 Mar 2010)

longers said:


> Do I remember rightly that no plug points were supposed to be used on the last LEL at controls for recharging of batteries?



Yep. There were (some) sockets around, but the organisers felt it best to advise on the side of self sufficiency as there were certainly not a lot. I don't really see that they could have gone any other way. 450 tired riders arriving within a few hours of each other, all promised and relying on a socket would have been a disaster. Here's a few nightmare scenarios:


Its been dark for 4 hours already, and at the next stop you're factoring in an hour's food/rest. If you find a socket on arrival, you can probably bump the charge your battery for 50 mins, but will that be enough to reach dawn? 
When you arrive, you realise that your light / battery pack is identical to roughly 100 others. How will you know which is yours when you're exhausted? If you have a notation system, how will you know others understand it?
What do you do if there's no socket spare, but someone else's light is taking a socket but blinking 'full'? Do you swap it? They might be asleep for the next five hours. They might be leaving in one minute. They might not speak English.
What if that happens to you?
What happens if you grab your batteries and leave, only to find that some bugger that arrived 3 mins after you has borrowed your socket to charge their phone for emergency calls?
In the first / middle days, you might never stop for more than an hour at once. In the eat / fettle / rest time, sleep deprived and exhausted, do you also want to be resolving all of the above?



GregCollins said:


> How do peeps keep their GPS's going if they use fancy ones without removable batteries? PowerMonkey's all round?



I didn't see any powermonkeys. I suppose they used spare battery packs (expensive) or perhaps (multiple?) powermonkeys at bag drops (logistics), or maybe just carried on bikes that were always ahead of me. 

I used an Etrex, which takes AA batteries. I bought Energizer ultimates (or something, I dunno, whichever is blue ones with the biggest superlative / lightning strike on the packaging) and they got me round with 2 changes. If I'd known they'd be so good, I'd not have taken 8 spares in either direction, but until you're underway, all ideas of timing are a gamble.

As ever, all of the above is just my experience. I'm only one audax ahead of lots of you, and far behind many.



Nuncio said:


> Are you sure that was the dynamo? Some riding companions have the the same effect.


LOL! Worst thing of it is you can't just reach down and flick them off your wheel!


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## Tim Bennet. (5 Mar 2010)

> Some riding companions have the the same effect.


Could be! Audax UK has more than their share of them.


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## Arch (5 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> The heart says yes, but the volvo'ed shoulder says no. The bum has started legal proceedings to get a restraining order on the heart, and the knees have written a threatening note from cut-out newspaper lettering and shoved it in the left ventricle. Very very tempted, but I know my limits; I'm a one-day specialist.
> 
> Arch - If you manage to get down to Winchester, PM me if you want to try some local rides. I'm like a Garmin 705 for Winchester routes, only without the personality.



Well, you have 3 years to change your mind.

And I'll keep you in mind if I ever get to Winchester with a bike, cheers! (I'm down in a couple of weeks, but on the train, and fully booked up for new nephew dandling duties. And helping my post c-section sister around the house...)

I'd love to roll up at my sister's having ridden in 'one go'. Last time, I took a week! Mind you, they live up in Fulflood, so it's always going to be a slog uphill to the house!


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## Cockney Scot (5 Mar 2010)

Put me down for it. Will be in mid 50's but would love to do it. Question is how many miles per day? Would love to do it on the Eco . could do around 75 miles a day, load bike up with camping gear


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## Arch (5 Mar 2010)

Let me have a more detailed location - just a town will do...

Have you looked at the LEL site?

http://www.londonedinburghlondon.co.uk/

You have just under 5 days to do it, and there isn't time for camping.... There's barely time for sleeping!


<wonder again why I've said I'll do this...>


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## Nuncio (5 Mar 2010)

1401km in 116 hours. You need to keep an average moving speed of around 7.5 mph. Sounds easy, doesn't it?

But best make it around 10mph, because you'll need to sleep a bit. Or 12mph because you'll have to get your card stamped 18 times and eat. Better make it 13mph to allow for natural breaks, punctures, putting on and taking off waterproofs, traffic lights, extra kms because of navigating errors, waiting for gaps in the traffic streams when crossing more major roads round York, level crossings, a shower and change of lycra at Dalkeith, phone calls to nearest and dearest, impromptu stops in bus shelters while a biblical downpour passes over etc.

So can you manage a moving average of 14 mph over 875 miles over 5 days, on a route that includes Yad Moss and some Lowland hills? If the answer is 'yes' are you allowing for dyno-hub drag?


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## Dayvo (6 Mar 2010)

Last year's event was from 26th -31st July. 

Is that not six days (144 hours)?


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## Ashaman42 (6 Mar 2010)

I think there were two starting waves so don't think you'd get the whole six days.


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## arallsopp (6 Mar 2010)

Yup, as Ashaman says, there were two waves. The second one left around 2pm on the 26th, and was due back at 10am on the 31st. The first lot were due back by 4am, so the 31st is a lot less than a full day.

Actually, by that point we won't know what day it is anyway, let alone time


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## Arch (6 Mar 2010)

Nuncio said:


> 1401km in 116 hours. You need to keep an average moving speed of around 7.5 mph. Sounds easy, doesn't it?
> 
> But best make it around 10mph, because you'll need to sleep a bit. Or 12mph because you'll have to get your card stamped 18 times and eat. Better make it 13mph to allow for natural breaks, punctures, putting on and taking off waterproofs, traffic lights, extra kms because of navigating errors, waiting for gaps in the traffic streams when crossing more major roads round York, level crossings, a shower and change of lycra at Dalkeith, phone calls to nearest and dearest, impromptu stops in bus shelters while a biblical downpour passes over etc.
> 
> So can you manage a moving average of 14 mph over 875 miles over 5 days, on a route that includes Yad Moss and some Lowland hills? If the answer is 'yes' are you allowing for dyno-hub drag?



Hell, I can skip the shower...

Thanks for that, I've been trying unsuccessfully to work out in my head the required average speed.

Yikes. 

I've been working on 116 hours divided by 24, makes something like 4.8 days.


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## PpPete (6 Mar 2010)

First night ride yesterday.... I need a long time to build up to this !!

Unlit lanes, Tesco 3 W torch, Cateye EL450. Both mounted on lowriser bosses (one each side). Not enough light at 20 kph.

Petzl Myo XP head torch JUST enabled me to keep up speed up closer to 30 kph where the gradient allowed, and deliberately point beam at any motons who did not dip their headlights, and check the Garmin occasionally.

I'm definitely going to have to get something A LOT better for a long run like the LEL. 

Has anybody worked out a way of using a SON to charge AA & AAA NiMH when it's not being used to run the lights? This would enable one to run the Garmin and a decent rear battery rear light without relying on spare batteries or sockets for charging.


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## PalmerSperry (6 Mar 2010)

porkypete said:


> Has anybody worked out a way of using a SON to charge AA & AAA NiMH when it's not being used to run the lights? This would enable one to run the Garmin and a decent rear battery rear light without relying on spare batteries or sockets for charging.



I'm sure there are instructions floating around the net for various homebuild systems, but there's also the (non-cheap) Busch & Müller E-Werk.


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## Fixedwheelnut (6 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Thanks for that, I've been trying unsuccessfully to work out in my head the required average speed.
> 
> Yikes.
> 
> I've been working on 116 hours divided by 24, makes something like 4.8 days.



Here is my data for 2005
----------------------------------------------------
Total ride 1419.49km that includes my off route bits
Total time taken ; 106h 50m
Ride time 61h 58m = average riding speed 22.9km/h @ 70 rpm = approx 260260 turns of the pedals.
Sleep time 17h 30m
That leaves the remaining 27 hours faffing and eating and cleaning etc
------------------------------------------------------
day 1 233.3km @ 25.8km/h
day 2 341km @ 23.5km/h
day 3 327km @ 20.3km/h hilly part
day 4 286.8km @ 23.3km/h
day 5 230.5km @ 21.7km/h


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## Nuncio (6 Mar 2010)

> Total time taken ; 106h 50m


And me - just checked my card. But I did 18.49kms fewer.


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## Auntie Helen (6 Mar 2010)

Well I know I couldn't do the ride... but am miles from the controls too. I shall cheer you all along from my nice warm home where there's no rain inside and no mechanicals...

Grüße, PalmerSperry!


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## Auntie Helen (6 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> I think it came into English through the German, and is probably short for something quite a lot longer, so the standard rules don't apply. I'm sure Auntie Helen will know


I'm pretty sure it's from Greek 'dunamis' meaning 'power'. However I do think the plural is 'dynamos' not 'dynamoes' which may be a way that we pluralise words nicked from Greek. The German plural is indeed 'dynamos' though, but I don't think that's got much to do with the English spelling - although Busch & Müller seem to be Big Cheeses in bicycle dynamo world.


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## Arch (6 Mar 2010)

Auntie Helen said:


> Well I know I couldn't do the ride... but am miles from the controls too. I shall cheer you all along from my nice warm home where there's no rain inside and no mechanicals...
> 
> Grüße, PalmerSperry!



S'alright. We'll just ride to your house for tea and cake afterwards....


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## PpPete (6 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> I'm sure there are instructions floating around the net for various homebuild systems, but there's also the (non-cheap) Busch & Müller E-Werk.



That looks like the business. Yet another piece of kit to add to the shopping list, and there was me thinking I already had a bike that would just be just right for long Audaxes (what is the plural of Audax please!)


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## PalmerSperry (6 Mar 2010)

Auntie Helen said:


> Grüße, PalmerSperry!



Vielen dank! Even if I am an English ex-pat, as was possibly clearly indicated by the fact that I'd mis-spelled Österreich in my profile!  Now if only we hadn't had ~5-10cm of snow that landed on us over the last 2 days. Making a snowman today was fun, but I'm not sure it really helped me prepare for the 200 I've got in a months time!


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## Auntie Helen (6 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Vielen dank! Even if I am an English ex-pat, as was possibly clearly indicated by the fact that I'd mis-spelled Österreich in my profile!  Now if only we hadn't had ~5-10cm of snow that landed on us over the last 2 days. Making a snowman today was fun, but I'm not sure it really helped me prepare for the 200 I've got in a months time!


Yes, I did notice the Östereich, but an unaccustomed attack of Höflichkeit meant I didn't mention it. This will, of course, amaze Arch, with whom I'm having a grammar/spelling pedantry competition. We're at about a draw at the moment.


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## Ashaman42 (7 Mar 2010)

Well I did my first metric century ever yesterday, I need to get faster for sure.

Took me 5hrs17 riding time to do 62.3 miles. Though I did stop for some toast and tea at my Dad's so the whole trip took 6hrs20 in the end.

Average speed of just under 12mph, so need to work on both speed and endurance.

In my defence though it was rather windy and I only cycled 170 miles last year and about the same so far this year, the fitness is coming back just a little slowly.


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## Arch (7 Mar 2010)

Well done! That's not a bad speed, more or less my average for the summer months last year (it goes down in winter on my heavier bike). And it's early in the year still. And toast and tea is very much an approved refuel in my book!

I've been out and done 21 flat miles on the trike, enjoying the sun. Trying not to push it too much, with my back bad at the moment, so I'm waiting to see if I'm crippled later. Was pretty comfy on the trike, although I think I need a wedge of foam to make me sit a touch more upright.

AH - I'm afraid I haven't hope at pedantry in German!


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## Arch (7 Mar 2010)

User1314 said:


> I will.
> 
> Inspired by arallsopp.
> 
> I have clearance form the OH.



PM me a rough location, and I'll put you on the map...


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## Arch (7 Mar 2010)

Ok, random SW London location chosen. You're a womble!


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## Dayvo (7 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Ok, random SW London location chosen. You're a womble!



Yeah, Crock; remember you're a womble!


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## arallsopp (7 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> Well I did my first metric century ever yesterday.



Bloody well done mate! That's further than I'd managed this time last year, and is a very good opener. Once the weather warms up, this will be a perfect foundation to rides of great stupidity 

Am quite envious of you. Its a hell of a curve you're facing


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## Ashaman42 (7 Mar 2010)

I'm definitely looking forward to the lighter evenings, it's be a while till I can afford a dynohub so will be nice to be able to extend my commute without worrying about lighting.

Am surprised how little my legs hurt today, they did not feel good when I finished my ride yesterday. Not sure if the knee pain was fit related or simply not being used to that sort of mileage. Will be keeping an eye on it.

Only just managed the last ten or so miles but have plenty of time to work on the old endurance.


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## Amanda P (8 Mar 2010)

Oh 'eck.

We did about 130 hilly miles over two days this weekend. I'm knackered: I've a long way to go to be ready!

Still, I suppose I could look on it as an early start to the training.

And on the dynamo thread, my 'bent is now equipped with a SON hub and a IQ Cyo light. I've no excuse not to do it now, really, have I?


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## PpPete (8 Mar 2010)

My legs were also a little knackered this morning....

Yesterday:
Nice steady 30km on my own outbound at 24 kph which I was pleased about.
Return with a horrendously slow group at about 16-17 kph, all of which would have been fine, until we (16 y.o. son and I) left the group about three miles from home. What is it about teenage boys having to prove themselves?
More to the point why did I rise to the bait?


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## Arch (8 Mar 2010)

Ashaman42 said:


> I'm definitely looking forward to the lighter evenings, it's be a while till I can afford a dynohub so will be nice to be able to extend my commute without worrying about lighting.
> 
> Am surprised how little my legs hurt today, they did not feel good when I finished my ride yesterday. Not sure if the knee pain was fit related or simply not being used to that sort of mileage. Will be keeping an eye on it.
> 
> Only just managed the last ten or so miles but have plenty of time to work on the old endurance.



When I did my first (and so far, only) imperial century last year, it was the last 10 miles before my legs started to hurt - but my shoulders, wrists and bum were screaming from about 70 miles. I think the legs get pretty strong with any amount of regular riding, and the real test is the contact points (ah the joy of recumbents!). I only just made the last 10 miles of that 100, not helped by the fact that I got back to the edge of York on 90, so had to go back out to bag the full 100. Now THAT was mind over matter.

I only did 21 miles yesterday on the trike, but my excuse is a bad back - a back which feels miraculously better today than it did last week. I'll be honest, I was starting to think I'd never cycle more than my commute ever again, but I feel much happier now. Just need not to put it back by overdoing the lifting at work.

I better start saving for a SON then.


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## Ashaman42 (8 Mar 2010)

Well I've got a little bike kitty going, everytime I commute I move £5 into a separate account, originally started it to stop me spending money on stuff when I wasn't doing any cycling. Think that's go towards the dyno gear though I don't mind if I have to top it up a bit from my proper savings.

Wasn't just my legs, bum and neck were getting quite sore too, will stick with it a bit, see if I adjust to riding again after so little last year.

Must admit I am tempted by a 'bent, no room at the moment but I'm planning to get a garage put up this spring (my poor motorbike is rusting away) so it's a maybe.


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## Greenbank (9 Mar 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about the choice of dynohub lights or battery lights. I've used both and would happily use either based for any ride based on the toss of a coin.

I did LEL with battery lights (2 x B&M Ixon IQ that take 4AA batteries each) and needed one spare set of batteries (which I bought _en route_). Most of the time I was using one light on the low power setting (which lasts for at least 10 hours or so). Only on a few descents did I go onto full power (4 hours from one set of batteries) and sometimes even turned on the second light (both on full just to show off how bright they were). The spare was also there should one fail or run out of batteries at an inopportune time.

I only needed 2 or 3 hours of lights per night because it's only dark enough to need bright lights between 10pm and 4am at that time of year, and because I'd stop for the night somewhere for some sleep. Just have a cheap flashing light for being seen to save the need for the bright lights until it's properly dark enough.

I've done all my other Audaxes leading up to it with a dynohub wheel and light, but for LEL I thought I'd treat myself to less drag (even it's not noticable, it is there) and a lighter front wheel with less rotating weight.

For 400s and 600s I'm more likely to be riding right through the night so it makes more sense for dynohub powered lights, especially on a ride in spring/autumn where the nights are considerably longer.


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## PpPete (11 Mar 2010)

I can see your logic there Greenbank.... but 2 x Ixon IQ is expensive too. Maybe not quite as much as a SON Dynohub + a Cyo but I don't see that I'll be able to afford both systems. And as you say the dynohub is probably the way to go on a 600, which I sort of think I "should" do before the LEL


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## arallsopp (11 Mar 2010)

porkypete said:


> And as you say the dynohub is probably the way to go on a 600, which I sort of think I "should" do before the LEL



Greenbank knows his stuff, and was in considerably better condition than me by the time we hooked up southbound. Then again, I completed my virgin "600" on the way up, some 15 miles south of Eskdalemuir


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## Ian H (11 Mar 2010)

Just to put your equipment worries in perspective, I did the 99 PBP on a forty year old fixed-wheel with, at night tiime, a seven quid Union dynamo rattling against the back tyre.

And rode there and back.


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## Tynan (11 Mar 2010)

Greenbank said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the choice of dynohub lights or battery lights. I've used both and would happily use either based for any ride based on the toss of a coin.
> 
> I did LEL with battery lights (2 x B&M Ixon IQ that take 4AA batteries each) and needed one spare set of batteries (which I bought _en route_). Most of the time I was using one light on the low power setting (which lasts for at least 10 hours or so). Only on a few descents did I go onto full power (4 hours from one set of batteries) and sometimes even turned on the second light (both on full just to show off how bright they were). The spare was also there should one fail or run out of batteries at an inopportune time.
> 
> ...



no no no no no, heresy


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## Ian H (11 Mar 2010)

Eh? Sounds very sensible to me.


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## Tynan (11 Mar 2010)

I was being a tad silly

heresy against the pro hub clique


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## PpPete (12 Mar 2010)

tad silly?
Isnt the whole concept just a teensy weensy bit more than a tad silly?


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## Greenbank (12 Mar 2010)

Tynan said:


> heresy against the pro hub clique



True. People can get very defensive about justifying their purchases.

Hubs work well. Battery powered lights work well. Both have their pros and cons. I pick and choose which I use for the appropriate situation.

As for the expense, yes, they are but good stuff generally is.

My SON wheel was close to £200 (Ambrosio Excellight rim). My Solidlights 1203D was £140, plus another £70 to have it upgraded to the brighter XB2 emitters.

For a cheaper option you can go for a Shimano Dynohub wheel (~£120) and something like the B&M Cyo (£70) or the cheaper and not quite so good but still good enouhg IQ Fly (£50). 

B&M Ixon IQ can be found for € 59,90 at RoseVersand. There are probably cheaper lights that are just as good (or even better) but I haven't bought them to recommend them.


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## Amanda P (12 Mar 2010)

What is the point of doing LEL if you can't use it as an excuse to buy some more toys...?


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## ChrisKH (12 Mar 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> What is the point of doing LEL if you can't use it as an excuse to buy some more toys...?



+1. I may well enter and then pull out through "injury" after acquiring sufficient toys.


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## PalmerSperry (12 Mar 2010)

ChrisKH said:


> +1. I may well enter and then pull out through "injury" after acquiring sufficient toys.



Surely to really maximise the potential there, you need to acquire SON + appropriate lights (and anything else that takes your fancy, I mean, that would be useful), then have the "injury" but use it to justify the purchase of a recumbent so that you "can still do the LEL", and then later on have "another injury" meaning you have to pull out after all?


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## Greenbank (12 Mar 2010)

Some people rode LEL with lights costing under £20. Takes all sorts.

With less faffing and a bit more effort on day 1 I think I could have got to Thorne in daylight (many people did). I would have then been able to have the same amount of sleep but been up and ready to go at sunrise rather than at 6.30am most mornings. Those extra few hours would have meant almost all of the subsequent days riding would have been in daylight, maybe a bit at dusk. It's certainly possible for a fast rider to complete LEL in daylight.

The things that slowed me down were all in my own control:-

1) Stopping for too long at controls (mind you, it's not a race)
2) Not getting up at 4am as first planned on day 2. (Ended up leaving Thorne at 6.30am).
3) Not pushing on from Eskdalemuir to Traquair at the end of day 2 when I wasn't feeling that tired and sleeping at Eskdalemuir was a nightmare.
4) Not pushing on from Eskdalemuir Southbound in the dreadful weather (very localised weather there, torrential downpour but dry 15 miles down the road in Langholm). There was no reason why I couldn't have left earlier, I just didn't want to.
5) And not using the 3 hours of waiting for the weather to improve at Eskdalemuir to best effect by sleeping (I sat around chatting instead). Serious case of dozies between Eskdalemuir and Alston which required a catnap in a church porch.
6) Pub lunch in Middleton-In-Teesdale took too long, but it was lovely to stop for some really nice food.
7) Very slow last section from Gamlingay to the finish, mainly because of lots us slowing down with tiredness and dozies. Plus we knew we had time to spare so we weren't rushing.

The bits I did in the dusk/dark were:-

Wragby (8pm-ish) to Thorne (midnight)
Alston (8pm) to Eskdalemuir (2am)
Eskdalemuir (10pm) to Alston (6am)
Coxwold (9pm) to Thorne (2am)
St Neots (9pm) to Finish (3.30am)


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## Tynan (12 Mar 2010)

will you come with us to hold our hands greenie?

everywhere you mention seems to be in Finland?


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## johnsss (15 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> Right. Anyone mad enough to be even considering the LEL 2013, pile in here, and hopefully any questions can be answered, training plans shared, and fevered brows mopped.



I should think it quite likely that I'll be participating.


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## arallsopp (15 Mar 2010)

johnsss said:


> johnsss
> New Member
> 
> Join Date: Dec 2009
> *Posts: 1*






Welcome Johnsss. Hell of an opening post


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## Greenbank (15 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Welcome Johnsss. Hell of an opening post



If it's a certain John S then LEL wouldn't be LEL without him (bearing in mind he's ridden all six of them).


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## arallsopp (15 Mar 2010)

Greenbank said:


> If it's a certain John S then LEL wouldn't be LEL without him (bearing in mind he's ridden all six of them).



If that's the case, I'm sure he'll usher us round like a shoving leopard on a well-boiled icicle.


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## Arch (15 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> If that's the case, I'm sure he'll usher us round like a shoving leopard on a well-boiled icicle.



Um....?

Anyway, John, if you'd like to be on the map of prospective riders, PM me a rough address - town or simething similar will do.


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## Greenbank (15 Mar 2010)

Tynan said:


> will you come with us to hold our hands greenie?



I might be there to do just that. Riding, helping at a control or (hopefully) being able to do both.


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## Ian H (15 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> If that's the case, I'm sure he'll usher us round like a shoving leopard on a well-boiled icicle.




If it isn't that man you may have some explaining to do.


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## johnsss (15 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> If that's the case, I'm sure he'll usher us round like a shoving leopard on a well-boiled icicle.



Let's hope it's not roaring with pain.


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## Panoramix (16 Mar 2010)

porkypete said:


> I can see your logic there Greenbank.... but 2 x Ixon IQ is expensive too. Maybe not quite as much as a SON Dynohub + a Cyo but I don't see that I'll be able to afford both systems. And as you say the dynohub is probably the way to go on a 600, which I sort of think I "should" do before the LEL



I have done LEL with a fenix torch so don't worry too much for the dynohub...

I actually would want one for commuting!


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## Tynan (16 Mar 2010)

Greenbank said:


> I might be there to do just that. Riding, helping at a control or (hopefully) being able to do both.



hurray!

never mind the rest, I really do need someone to follow that knows the way, when and where to stop, carries suitable spares and tools, has a good fund of amusing small talk, spare cash, erm that sort of thing


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## vorsprung (17 Mar 2010)

You lot seem to be forgetting that 

1) PBP is next year, you could be doing that
2) MGM is also in 2013, you could be doing that

Don't get me wrong, the northern bit of LEL is great. But let's get our priorities right here


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## Amanda P (17 Mar 2010)

And coming right back to the foreseeable future, Spring Into the Dales is on 18th April. Besides those already chipping in on the thread, are any other northern audax virgins considering it (besides me?)

I think you should. We may be taking the van over from York, should others want transport...


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## hulver (17 Mar 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> And coming right back to the foreseeable future, Spring Into the Dales is on 18th April. Besides those already chipping in on the thread, are any other northern audax virgins considering it (besides me?)
> 
> I think you should. We may be taking the van over from York, should others want transport...



I'm considering it, it's a nice lumpy course.

I'm doing this one from Wigginton on the 28th March first, to pop my Audax cherry.


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## Ashaman42 (17 Mar 2010)

vorsprung said:


> You lot seem to be forgetting that
> 
> 1) PBP is next year, you could be doing that
> 2) MGM is also in 2013, you could be doing that
> ...



Well I don't know about anyone else but I for one would like my first silly distance(tm) ride to be in the UK, that way language, money, transport are as simple as possible.

That's not to say I won't do PBP at some point in the future if the bug gets me.


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## PpPete (18 Mar 2010)

I used to live in France so I'd be OK on PBP language wise.... but no way enough time to prepare by 2011.

Forgive my ignorance though... MGM ?


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## Amanda P (18 Mar 2010)

A little Googling tells me Madrid - Gijon - Madrid.


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

It's interesting that a couple of people have now said "oh, do this instead." If I posted that I was going to France in the summer to tour, would they tell me to go to Bulgaria instead?

I'm sure the other events are great. I just want to do LEL. 

Phil. I'm mithering over the Spring into the Dales. If I mither long enough, it'll solve itself by being full or something.

I might take you up on the van offer. For proper training, I ought to use the Dash, is that feasible?


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## Amanda P (18 Mar 2010)

Yes, it's feasible. Of course, it might get lost on the way home... Mrs Uncle Phil really enjoyed her session with a Dash!


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> Yes, it's feasible. Of course, it might get lost on the way home... Mrs Uncle Phil really enjoyed her session with a Dash!



If necessary, I'd sit in it and growl!

(I'd need to get myself there separately I guess, you don't have a crew cab?)


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## Amanda P (18 Mar 2010)

At present, the truck is in "bus" mode.

There's room for three bikes and two passengers, but one of the passengers won't be able to talk to the other occupants except by sign language.





but without the boat (unless it's raining _very_ hard).


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> At present, the truck is in "bus" mode.
> 
> There's room for three bikes and two passengers, but one of the passengers won't be able to talk to the other occupants except by sign language.
> 
> ...



Oh! That would be fine, put me in the back like the dog. I could get the kettle on

Ok, I'm getting more and more sold on this idea... Proper training has to start somewhen, it might as well be soon...


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## redjedi (18 Mar 2010)

You can put me on the map as well Arch. I foolishly mentioned it would be a good idea in the Rides thread, so I may as well commit now.

I'm in Brentford, Middlesex near Kew Gardens (sounds better than Hounslow). 

I better invest in some better cable ties though. The ones I lent to Stevevw on Saturday didn't work very well


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## arallsopp (18 Mar 2010)

Excellent, young Jedi. Its only a FNRttC, and back, twice, then double it, and double that.


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## redjedi (18 Mar 2010)

Is that all? I thought it would be a challenge 

Better start by riding back from Brighton next week then.


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Excellent, young Jedi. Its only a FNRttC, and back, twice, then double it, and double that.



Oh, you make it sound easy!

Jedi, you're on the map. I can feel the force....


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## redjedi (18 Mar 2010)

Looks as if Davy's my training buddy. We'll have to practice with a trailer in tow to carry all the M&S sandwiches 

I would train with Arallsopp and Ian but they are a long way away


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

redjedi said:


> Looks as if Davy's my training buddy. We'll have to practice with a trailer in tow to carry all the M&S sandwiches
> 
> I would train with Arallsopp and Ian but they are a long way away



When I started the map, I thought, oh, everyone's so far away (and then Uncle Phil joined up).

But then I remembered what we're training for, and that 'far away' is relative!

I'm still getting my head around the idea that I really ought to be aiming to be able to ride to my sister's in a day, and then back next day. Last time I rode it, I took a week one way!


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## PalmerSperry (18 Mar 2010)

vorsprung said:


> You lot seem to be forgetting that
> 
> 1) PBP is next year, you could be doing that
> 2) MGM is also in 2013, you could be doing that
> ...



Well if we're going to be listing other long events we could be considering, then there's the Hamburg-Berlin-Köln-Hamburg (1500km!) this year, plus another three 1000km events in Germany. Plus there's a 1000km event in Austria in 2012.

My personal feeling is that I want to do something longer than a 600 before LEL, but that's starting from a position of having never finished a 200 yet!


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## stevevw (18 Mar 2010)

redjedi said:


> I better invest in some better cable ties though. The ones I lent to Stevevw on Saturday didn't work very well



Better cable ties you say. better get me on the list too then.


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## Arch (18 Mar 2010)

do you want to narrow it down from 'herts'?


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## stevevw (18 Mar 2010)

North Herts - Watton at Stone


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## johnsss (18 Mar 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Well if we're going to be listing other long events we could be considering, then there's the Hamburg-Berlin-Köln-Hamburg (1500km!) this year, plus another three 1000km events in Germany. Plus there's a 1000km event in Austria in 2012.
> 
> My personal feeling is that I want to do something longer than a 600 before LEL, but that's starting from a position of having never finished a 200 yet!



HBKH is highly recommended. I rode it last time (2006) and I'll be there again this year.


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## PalmerSperry (18 Mar 2010)

johnsss said:


> HBKH is highly recommended. I rode it last time (2006) and I'll be there again this year.



The closing date for entries is, apparently, 1st June so I can wait until after attempting a 200, 300 & 400 to see whether I want to risk it on an upright. Though I fear I'd lack sufficient available time off work to attempt it anyway.


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## vorsprung (23 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> It's interesting that a couple of people have now said "oh, do this instead." If I posted that I was going to France in the summer to tour, would they tell me to go to Bulgaria instead?
> 
> I'm sure the other events are great. I just want to do LEL.



Because LEL is just a local event with a few hundred entrants and PBP is the biggest long distance event in the world. PBP predates the Tour de France. 

On PBP whole villages stay awake half the night to cheer you. On LEL you might get a few drunks shouting incoherently at you.

Like I said before LEL is fine. It's just that PBP is next year and it is bigger and better

Did you mention Bulgaria?
http://www.svs-cycling.s5.com/


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## PpPete (23 Mar 2010)

On other endurance events in UK (not bike ones) I've found that even a few drunks cheering you on is great motivation to keep going !

No doubt PBP is bigger - but better? It'll be different for sure but as to which is "better" I'll reserve judgement until I've done both... 2015 at earliest because I've no hope of getting enough training in before next year.


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## willm (25 Mar 2010)

Well I have managed to read through the whole thread now. Some very interesting discussions going on.

I am planning on riding LEL2013 so thought it best I add myself to the map so that when someone is near me I can get some riding in. (Arch I am in Inverkeithing, just north of the forth road bridge).

Having only to date riden one 60K off road audax to date there is a lot of preperation to do. But as people have been saying three years is a long period of time.

Will


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## mrdchc (25 Mar 2010)

*All for it!*

Sadly, I DNF this year, but that makes me all more determined to have a 'real' go next time.

I am also doing as much training as I can to get myself ready for the PBP next year, so if anyone happnes to live near NW11 in London and ride along in my DIY Audaxes - that would be great!

My 2p on the lights - SON eber alles.  

Logically - I get that it is possible to use battries etc. - but for me this lighting solution is best if only because of one element - I don't need to WORRY or REMEMBER - it just works (and I also have the 'sensor' lighting, so I don't even turn the thing on or off - how cool is that!

Finally, as this is my first post, just a bit of introduction. I commute daily on a fixie and did up to 400Km audaxes on it, although the LEL attempt was on a hybrid. I have recently purchased a Street Machine (recumbent) and hope to build up my power and speed to be able to do long distance audaxes on it. I simply grew tired of the various aches and discomforts that road bikes entail and (so far - only about 300km under my belt with it) I think I made the right choice.

Finally, you may wish to look at my cycling blog at mrdch.com - there is a good article (he says) there on mapping software and GPS, among other blurb.

Cheers!


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## Arch (25 Mar 2010)

Hey guys, welcome to the thread - I'll add you to the map when I get back home, I'm at my sister's for a week, with limited computer time - a two year old and a tiny baby take a lot of playing with!


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## willm (25 Mar 2010)

Arch said:


> a two year old and a tiny baby take a lot of playing with!



I know the feeling we have a month only baby and two toddlers. Not particualy conducive with trying to cycle long distances. Well my 13 mile commute will have to do for now with longer rides at weekends as and when I can fit them in.


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## vorsprung (26 Mar 2010)

porkypete said:
 

> On other endurance events in UK (not bike ones) I've found that even a few drunks cheering you on is great motivation to keep going !
> 
> No doubt PBP is bigger - but better? It'll be different for sure but as to which is "better" I'll reserve judgement until I've done both... 2014 at earliest because I've no hope of getting enough training in before next year.



LEL is 2005,2009,2013,2017
PBP is 2003,2007,2011,2015

AUK often run a 1000km ride in years that aren't LEL or PBP, maybe that will be the way to go in 2014

When I did LEL in 2005, I had done 1x200km and 2x300km in 2004 and then a full 200/300/400/600 before LEL in late summer 2005
2004 was my first season doing distances > 100 miles and I did LEL the year after

You don't have to be some kind of Ubermench to do these long rides. Maybe you don't need to "train"


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## yello (27 Mar 2010)

Maybe... but I'm sure as the date looms closer that'll become a yes.

I rode it for the first time last year and learnt a great deal. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but knowing what I know now I would have made some decisions differently.

I used a Shimano hub dynamo and a B&M Cyo. I didn't notice any hub drag but then I always ride with a dynohub so I could just be used to it. Can't say I've ever really noticed it though to be honest, not from day 1. Rear lights were common or garden leds; cateye something-or-other and one of the 1/2 watt jobbies. I carried spare batteries but didn't need them.

I also used an Edge 305 with a gomadic external power source velcroed to the top tube. Worked perfectly. The Edge's limited storage meant that tracking it overwrote the details of the first dozen legs but it didn't skip a beat for route following. I knew of the storage limitation and I wasn't bothered. I could have taken a laptop and downloaded it - but that would have been just a bit daft imo. Besides, I knew the ride summary (total distance, elapsed time) would be maintained and that was the main thing.

For training purposes, I would recommend people get into the habit of riding on consecutive days - if you can. I'm not talking 600s, or even 400s, but certainly 100s and maybe even 200s. LEL can be tackled as 4 consecutive 350s, more-or-less, but there are obviously other ways.

But it's some time away yet. I'm focused on the 600 Bordeaux-Paris this year (plus a 400 PBP qualifier) and then maybe PBP next year.


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## Arch (27 Mar 2010)

Ok, new names added. Yello, do you want adding to the map too, as a maybe?


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## Greenbank (28 Mar 2010)

mrdchc said:


> My 2p on the lights - SON eber alles.
> 
> Logically - I get that it is possible to use battries etc. - but for me this lighting solution is best if only because of one element - I don't need to WORRY or REMEMBER - it just works (and I also have the 'sensor' lighting, so I don't even turn the thing on or off - how cool is that!



The only thing to remember is that 'it just works' up until it stops. I think Mr Vorsprung has had a SON hub stop working in the middle of a 600km Audax.

If you don't have a backup you could be forced to DNF. I always carry a B&M Ixon as a backup, even if I'm using my SON + Solidlights.

The drag may not be noticable but it's there. A typical front light will be taking up to 6W. With the various inefficiencies (lamp, dynohub) you're looking at 'losing' about 10W. Haven't got my PowerTap wheel yet but others who've used one for Audaxing generally shows that Audax pootling pace is 160W. 10W on top of that isn't insignificant.


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## vorsprung (29 Mar 2010)

Greenbank said:


> The only thing to remember is that 'it just works' up until it stops. I think Mr Vorsprung has had a SON hub stop working in the middle of a 600km Audax.


GB is thinking of the k&sw 600 in 2009. My SON powered Cyo conked out at the start of the night stage. I had a tescos AA LED torch and a headtorch as backup. The night stage is the A39 Atlantic highway, which is an excellent road so it wasn't a problem.

I had a bulb go during LEL 2005 before York. So I did part of night #1 with the backup light. When I changed the bulb the next day I didn't tighten up the bolt holding the lamp on properly. So it fell off and was held on with tape until Edinburgh where the nice mechanic woman fixed it. There are some descents that are a bit scarey with a 1W LED light.

During the wettest ever ride, the Highs and Loos 200km, I was riding with my mate Andy. Andy's light fell off the bracket on his bike and broke into a million pieces. So I gave him my backup light. Later, the extreme wetness made my old SON powered axa-basta light work intermitantly. When I tried poking it I got a shock off the generator.

But the best light failure was in 2008. 

I broke my collar bone in Feb, and had missed all the early season events. I had done a 200/300/600 successfully and just needed a 400 to get an SR. This wasn't possible in July, there was too much rain and wind.

At the end of august 2008 the weather cleared up and there was a small group doing a perm version of the k&sw 600. So I set off to up meet up with them the night before. First 100 metres my SON powered light failed. Second 100 metres my Dinotte failed. I briefly considered riding 600k with just a 1 AA headtorch and then went home. I didn't get an SR that year. Previous to this the Dinotte and the SON had always been very reliable.


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## Tynan (4 Apr 2010)

are people really still arguing that the light from a dynamo is free?


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## PalmerSperry (5 Apr 2010)

Tynan said:


> are people really still arguing that the light from a dynamo is free?



Well I didn't notice any money flowing out of my pocket when my SON powered light came on in a tunnel this morning!  Or are we meaning in terms of added drag? I doubt I could really notice the 1 foot extra per mile (when the lights off) or the 5 feet extra per mile (when it's on). (And those figures are, IIRC, for a SON28 with a halogen light, not a SON20R with an LED?)


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## Tynan (5 Apr 2010)

10W in 170W by Greenbank's figures, sounds a lot more than 5 feet per mile


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## Arch (5 Apr 2010)

Tynan said:


> are people really still arguing that the light from a dynamo is free?



Do you work for the National Battery Council?


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## Tynan (5 Apr 2010)

nah, just asking a very fundamental question about hub dynamoes and get two very different answers, I might well ask the hub afficianados much the same question, the idea of a very bright light being fuelled without apparent effort is an odd one to me

I have to say that I find greenbank's post awfully to the point and plausible


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## PalmerSperry (6 Apr 2010)

Tynan said:


> 10W in 170W by Greenbank's figures, sounds a lot more than 5 feet per mile



Where's the 10W figure coming from though? The figures (scroll down quite a bit) tfrom the people selling the things don't show them producing more than about 7Ws of drag even at 30kmh. And I, personally, don't consider 30kmh to be audax "pootling along" pace! (Between 10kmh and 20kmh, the SON is producing between 3 and 5.5W of drag).)


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## Greenbank (6 Apr 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> Where's the 10W figure coming from though? The figures (scroll down quite a bit) tfrom the people selling the things don't show them producing more than about 7Ws of drag even at 30kmh. And I, personally, don't consider 30kmh to be audax "pootling along" pace! (Between 10kmh and 20kmh, the SON is producing between 3 and 5.5W of drag).)



Those are the figures of the latest and greatest SON. At 30kph it's taking more than 7W to power a 3W light. It's the inefficiency of converting mechanical energy to electrical energy and then into light. Other dynohubs are taking 9W at that speed to do the same, sidewall dynamos over 10W. Close enough for me.

And 30kph on the flat is generally Audax "pootling" pace. It's what I do on the flat and I generally end up near the back of the field on a ride. According to the bicycle speed and power calculator (thanks to the Web Archive) http://web.archive.org/web/20071212072421/http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

160W of power on the drops on the flat with no wind is ~30kph (depending on individual figures). Someone I usually ride with has a PowerTap hub and averages about 160W over an Audax. More than 50% of a ride (time wise) I'm doing more than 25kph. It's the other 50% of time that slows it all down; the average is brought down by hills and wind.

My moving averages tend to be; 25kph for a relatively flat Audax, 23kph for in between and I've dropped right down to 20kph moving average for a hilly Audax). Add in leisurely stops and you're soon bouncing near the closing times of the controls.

5ft per mile doesn't sound much, but over the distance of LEL it's an extra 1350m of climbing (LEL 2009 had about 9,000m of climbing). Of course you won't have your lights on all of the time, unless it's torrential rain and you need to. So just imagine an extra Yad Moss (600m above sea level) or two on the route.

You may not be able to feel it but that doesn't mean it's free. 5ft per mile does't sound much until you work out how much it is over a long ride.


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## PalmerSperry (6 Apr 2010)

Greenbank said:


> And 30kph on the flat is generally Audax "pootling" pace. It's what I do on the flat and I generally end up near the back of the field on a ride.



Hmm, that explains why I always end up as the Lanterne Rouge then! Unless it's downhill or the inside the first 50km then I'm not going to be exceeding 25kmh! And I only knock on the door of / exceed 30kmh downhill.



Greenbank said:


> You may not be able to feel it but that doesn't mean it's free. 5ft per mile does't sound much until you work out how much it is over a long ride.



I've never claimed it was free anyway! I think the "fit and (almost) forget" aspect is the big win ... (How much extra weight would enough AAs, or whatever, to power an Edelux equivalent light for an entire LEL amount to anyway? )


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## Greenbank (6 Apr 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> I've never claimed it was free anyway! I think the "fit and (almost) forget" aspect is the big win ... (How much extra weight would enough AAs, or whatever, to power an Edelux equivalent light for an entire LEL amount to anyway? )



Less than the weight penalty of a SON hub (compared to a normal hub).

(I did LEL with 3 sets of Lithium batteries in my B&M Ixon lights).

If I'd needed any more batteries (i.e. I'd had to dip into my 3rd set on anything but the last night) I'd just stop at a shop or petrol station and buy some.

Fit and forget is definitely nice. I'm back to using my SON + Solidlights 1203D for commuting and evening rides around Richmond Park.


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## mcshroom (13 Apr 2010)

Hmm, 3 years to train, just after my 30th birthday, mad long ride. Er can I join in please 

May need to get a bit of practice in though! I've only been back in the saddle 4 months and my longest ride so far is 60 miles. 

It sounds like a great ride, I'm just not sure I'll be capable atm.


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## arallsopp (14 Apr 2010)

60 miles with 3 years to go? You're well ahead of the curve mate. Plenty of time to chase this (and others).


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## Fiona N (14 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> Of course!
> 
> And it's not really late - there are 3 years to go!



May I also join in too, then 

I've just been into Hewitts Cycles in Leyland to order a new Audax bike (sorry, I should clarify that as it sounds like I have so many bikes that I can have separate ones for sportives, audaxes, touring etc. - it's a new multi-purpose, mud-guard-friendly, carbon-framed road bike) so maybe LEL would make a good objective to make sure it gets used. 

But then again, the Windcheetah would also make a suitable steed. But either way, I have often thought about LEL since I attempted the Audax Club's 5 day (technically 106 hours, I think) LeJOG challenge with the 'cheetah a few years ago. I quite enjoyed weekends spent riding the trike what seemed liked continuously in order to do back-to-back 300km rides - fortunately I was working in Switzerland that summer so most of these long training miles were in rather nice warm sunny conditions which prepared me well for the first 4 days of burning sunshine and almost windless conditions. Sadly the Inverness to JOG day was NE gale force winds with driven rain which rather compensated for the previous days.


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## Arch (14 Apr 2010)

cool! more people!

Mcshroom, I've added you to the map using the location you have in your avatar, is that ok? It's only rough, so that people can see if they have people local to them for training get togethers. 

Fiona, if you'd also like to be on the map, can you let me have a rough location? PM me if you prefer. I'm also hoping to do the LEL on three wheels and a low down comfy seat.

I did 60 miles on Sunday, out of Hebden Bridge. God, it was hard. There were moments when I thought, this is stupid, I'm way too slow for the LEL, and the hills are killing me. But that's what training is for, I guess! And it was actually a lovely ride - I didn't actually hurt, and felt fine the next day, so there's some base fitness there.

I'm down for the Leap into the Aire on Sunday, about 38 miles in the same area, my first Audax.


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## PalmerSperry (14 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> I'm down for the Leap into the Aire on Sunday, about 38 miles in the same area, my first Audax.



Good luck (not that I suspect you'll need it). Hopefully it will go better than my first Audax on 2010 the Monday which went sufficiently badly that I've now got four DNFs out of four 200s I've started.


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## Arch (14 Apr 2010)

Oh dear! Well, mine's not nearly that far, so there's hope...

Any particular problem, or just a combination of circumstances?


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## PalmerSperry (14 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> Any particular problem, or just a combination of circumstances?



Combination of circumstances this time ... Getting lost trying to find the second control (I think there was a missing line in the otherwise superb routesheet), followed by a non-findable puncture, followed by my will-cracking (probably due to the aforemention issues). I think I also had nutrition issues, but I think I now know (a) about them and ( how to combat them. (I also think I'll switch back to "the dark side" for future brevets!)

OTOH, I did manage to salvage my first imperial century out of it so it's not all bad.  The only downside at this point is that I've got precisely one more shot at an actual 200 this year, on the 15th May - there being a real shortage of events over here.


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## Fiona N (14 Apr 2010)

Hi Arch
I'm in Kendal - I didn't see many in the NNW on your map so may be I should venture over in your direction sometime for some dark side training as I won't be forsaking the Windcheetah just because there's a flashy new bike on the block 

Good Luck with Leap in the Aire. I'm tactically withdrawing from Spring in the Dales as lung problems are persisting - probably because I started riding too soon but it's hard to resist this currently glorious weather. I have taken up gardening to give myself a potentially less taxing outdoor alternative but find all the digging and uprooting nettles and brambles business even more strenuous than cycling


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## mcshroom (14 Apr 2010)

Arch said:


> Mcshroom, I've added you to the map using the location you have in your avatar, is that ok?



That's fine Arch (sorry I meant to say that).

Well my Hadrians ride training is ramping up now, so I'll just have to keep adding the miles (or as tonight miles and hilly fell road)


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## Arch (14 Apr 2010)

Ok, you're both on the map.

Fiona and Mcshroom, you are at least on the same side of the Pennines....

Anyone who fancies some flat training is welcome over to York anytime!


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## Greenbank (15 Apr 2010)

Fiona N said:


> I have often thought about LEL since I attempted the Audax Club's 5 day (technically 106 hours, I think) LeJOG challenge with the 'cheetah a few years ago.



Chapeau, a 5 day Audax LEJOG is on my list of rides to do. I can imagine it's a much harder challenge than LEL for various reasons:-
* Fewer riders (I'll need to find someone to ride with as I doubt I'd have the mental fortitude to complete it on my own).
* No dedicated controls (and no dedicated sleeping facilities)
* Sorting out your own food (and having to wait for it)
* Much more organisation (researching food stops and booking sleep stops along the way)
* Route planning (although that's half the fun of preparing for a ride like this)
* Much harder first day through Cornwall and Devon (LEL's first day is tame with only a few lumps coming through Herts). It only starts to get lumpy on the second day when you're nicely warmed up.

The 1400km Audax LEJOG gives you 116h40, the same as LEL (given that 1400km/12kph = 116h40m). The 1300km more direct route is 108h20.


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## Fiona N (15 Apr 2010)

The LEJOG challenge is via any (land) route and you collect evidence of time and place (e.g. receipts) instead of controls. So I used the time triallists' preferred route (I downloaded Lynne Taylor's schedule - she did 53 hours) which is, to put it mildly, not scenic if by scenic you mean nice country roads but it's only 840 odd miles. Thus 160-170 miles a day is do-able as a 'normal' tour. I was on my own with credit-card touring gear basically. I stayed at nice hotels along the way where I could be sure of good food and a bath (as opposed to a shower). I was fairly fast when on the road averaging 10 hours a day - leaving after breakfast at 7.30-8am and arriving most evenings by about 6pm. I'd done a lot of training so I was comfortable maintaining a riding average of 30kmph but the last day was pretty much on the limit, especially having to ride back to Wick for the hotel. I was clearly hypothermic when I arrived and didn't have much spare clothing so a travelling sportswear salesman gave me a nice rugby shirt as another layer to stop me shivering in the bar 

Doing it like this at least minimises the duration of the pain  but I can't recommend it as a holiday.


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## Tynan (15 Apr 2010)

Fiona N said:


> I was comfortable maintaining a riding average of 30kmph



yikes, what sort of level of rider are you? that's bloody serious surely?


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## themightyw (21 Apr 2010)

There's a crazy wee voice in the back of my head suggesting I shoudl sign up for this...


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## Ashaman42 (21 Apr 2010)

Do iiiiiit, you know it makes sense


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## Mad Doug Biker (21 Apr 2010)

Yes, there will be 3 years to practice, so erm, yes, ok, sign me up.

I have always quite liked the idea of long distance rides, it will be a good target to aim for (instead of the usual cliched John O' Groats to Lands end thingimybobber. I'd do it from Dunnet Head to Lizard Point instead anyway).

MATRON!! I NEED MY MEDICATION AGAIN!!


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## Arch (21 Apr 2010)

Mighty W, mad doug, if you want to go on the map, let me have a rough location.


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## Mad Doug Biker (21 Apr 2010)

Just sent you a PM


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## Arch (21 Apr 2010)

You're on the map.


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## Fiona N (22 Apr 2010)

Tynan said:


> yikes, what sort of level of rider are you? that's bloody serious surely?



A tired one 

I had a good base from a 2 week camp in Mallorca in early March and rode pretty consistently all Spring, then I picked up a training plan from a RAAM guy who worked full time (i.e. not a professional cyclist) and modified it for the three months before LeJOG. This mean basically 1500 km in month 1 (~May), 2500km month 2 (June) and 3500 km month 3 (July). The last month I was in Switzerland and the plan was:
Sat: 300km varied terrain but concentrating on high av. speed
Sun: 300km at lower pace
Mon: "rest day" (either 1hr lunchtime swim, or 50km commute or both in week 4)
Tue: 50-60km ride to work, 50-60km ride home, both flatish
Wed: 50km commute (round trip distance) + lunchtime swim
Thur: 50-60km ride to work, 50-60km ride home, both with serious 2-3km, 10+% climbs
Fri: 50km commute (round trip distance) + lunchtime beers (got to have some time off )

I had a few days easy riding at home before heading off by train to Penzance, did LEJOG, then caught the ferry from JOG to Shetland for a wedding for which the training was good, except my feet got blistered to death in the ceiledh (Scottish dancing for 6 hours).

The lesson from this was that I didn't feel up to doing RAAM which I had been toying with as I didn't think my knees would take it (on the Windcheetah) or my back (on an upright) 

I should add - I'm not planning on repeating this for LEL either


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## Greenbank (23 Apr 2010)

Blimey, that's a hell of a training plan.

My LEL training plan consisted of my 12km each way pan-flat commute in London and an Audax or two each month (usually one 200 and one longer ride). Oh, and try to keep to under 30 units of booze a week, and cut down on the pies.

I did 8700km in 2009, and LEL was 1400km of that.

I got a whole 10 hours sleep on LEL (but then I don't really suffer when sleep deprived), but my aim was to have fun and finish within the time limit and no more. Total riding time was only 70 hours (so 20kph average) so that means I faffed around for a whole 45 hours.


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## Tynan (23 Apr 2010)

dear god, 300km a day for training

thanks for the alternative option greenbank, plenty to think about there on the training front, 2 200km+ audaxes a month on top of the commute ...


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## trio25 (24 Apr 2010)

I must stop following this thread, it is tempting me!


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## mcshroom (24 Apr 2010)

Come on trio you know you want to 

Would make a good 1000th post too


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## trio25 (24 Apr 2010)

It would make an ideal 1000th post and there is plenty of time to change my mind.....

....so yes I am thinking that might be my challenge for 2013!


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## PpPete (26 Apr 2010)

Back on lighting - for a brief moment.
Semi-convinced by the battery argument, I've ordered a Hope Vision 1 with Ribble's latest discount, and to use up my PayPal balance before OH got designs on it....
Hoping it's bright enough for my moderate speeds on less than the max power, which at only 3 hours endurance could get expensive on AAs.


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## ianrauk (26 Apr 2010)

I found that the Hope Vision 1 was good enough on setting 2 and 3 (alternating) for even the darkest lane. I use Uniross rechargeable's (2700's) which lasted well over 9 hours.



porkypete said:


> Back on lighting - for a brief moment.
> Semi-convinced by the battery argument, I've ordered a Hope Vision 1 with Ribble's latest discount, and to use up my PayPal balance before OH got designs on it....
> Hoping it's bright enough for my moderate speeds on less than the max power, which at only 3 hours endurance could get expensive on AAs.


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## RedBike (26 Apr 2010)

Bit far in the future; but why not!


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

*Thought*

2010: 3 years to practice, ahh, I'll have PLENY of time!!

2011: doo bee doo bee doo doo doo

2012: Oh yes I signed up for something next year, now what was it again??

2013: SH*T!! it's next weekend and I haven't got any practice in!!
Do you think they will notice??!! Yes, of course they will, Crap!! I'll have to pull a sickie .....Saddle Rot, yeah, that'll do!!


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## Greenbank (26 Apr 2010)

User1314 said:


> I'm doing it on my fixed.



It's a great ride on fixed although the endless flat in the Southern half does get a bit tiring on the a**e as you never have to get out of the saddle. Not to bad on the way North and I luckily remembered to wear two pairs of shorts on the final day coming back South.

I had an amusing conversation with an American rider on the first climb out of Cheshunt:-

Him: "You should shift to a lower gear, climbing at that cadence isn't good for your knees."
Me: "I'm in my lowest gear."
Him: "Oh, then try a higher gear then, don't tell me you Brits refer to gears the other way round too?"
Me: "I'm in my highest gear."
Him: *looks down* "Oh. You're mad."


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## Arch (26 Apr 2010)

Trio and redbike, if you'd like to go on the map (for finding potential training partners in your area), PM me with a rough location (town will do, or area of London).


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## Arch (18 May 2010)

<hoik>

So, how are we all doing?

I'm upping my daily mileage, gradually. At the moment I'm on 10 miles a day - not much, but my door to door commute is only 1.5 miles each way 4 days a week, and 3 miles each way one day, so it's a significant difference. I'm hoping to gradually add in more miles - the big step will be when I have to get up earlier to accomodate them! Also, I'm trying to up my pace a bit. I'm still woefully slow on average, but I try to sprint when I can, and maintain the speed just beyond where it hurts.

I managed to stay ahead of a woman on an electric bike today!


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## Arch (18 May 2010)

Oh, and I'd said I wanted to do a century by the end of May. I'm running out of time. I may manage it this weekend, but I've got a lot of stuff to do before the holiday...

So that might slip. But then I have two weeks of 50 miles a day coming up, and I'll maybe get the century in soon after I get back.


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## Ian H (18 May 2010)

Training...there are loads of Audax rides around the country - just choose your distance. 
Training for LEL...Paris-Brest-Paris is next year. It's excellent preparation for LEL.


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## Amanda P (19 May 2010)

I've managed to do two 100s and a 150 km audax. So it's stepping up gradually.

Was thinking of trying the Hull 200 this weekend (which would make me a Randonneur 500!) but I'm going to be busy doing something else. 

Still, 2013 is still a way off... I still aim to become a Randonneru 500 this year. Baby steps.


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## Greenbank (19 May 2010)

You can also think of training in terms of time rather than distance. Before LEL 09 I was travelling around Chile and Argentina for the whole of November and December 2008 so my training didn't start until January 2009. Two months off the bike meant my fitness at dropped massively.

In 2009 my total hours (moving time, not elapsed time of rides) were:-

Jan: 27h
Feb: 23h
Mar: 61h
Apr: 27h
May: 41h
Jun: 39h
Jul: 26h (obviously not including the 70 hours of LEL).


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## arallsopp (19 May 2010)

Very interesting Greenbank. Wish I had my cyclogs data from the year, but suspect I went some way over your numbers in April / May. Baseline from start of year was 6 hours (moving) minimum commute per week. By April I was aiming for 18 hour(+) single day efforts about once a fortnight. Not that it all happened, of course, and I might have been better to have spent an hour shopping online for spare parts 

I'm not sure I'd have had the confidence to tackle LEL before managing a 400km, even if it was an unofficial day ride.


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## PpPete (19 May 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> I've managed to do two 100s and a 150 km audax. So it's stepping up gradually.
> 
> Was thinking of trying the Hull 200 this weekend (which would make me a Randonneur 500!) but I'm going to be busy doing something else.
> 
> Still, 2013 is still a way off... I still aim to become a Randonneru 500 this year. Baby steps.




Similar really.
Done a 100km and a 150km so far. And my next local 200km is on a date when I have child care responsibilities. May just have to haul littl'un around the 100km on the tandem. Flattish 70km is OK on the tandem, lumpy 100km I suspect will be quite a challenge, but I better get used to it because I think the little beggar is going to want to do most of our JoGLE as tandem stoker rather than support vehicle navigator!

Not sure I'm too worried about Randonneur awards until I've an SR series under my belt... hopefully 2012.


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## Nuncio (20 May 2010)

Remeber porkypete and Uncle Phil, that when you complete a 200km Audax you become a 'randonneur'. And that's for life! In Audax terms it's the shortest long distance event, if you see what I mean. I found that distance quite a stepping stone - not that I didn't gain pride and a sense of achievement in the 100s and 150 which preceded it.


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## mcshroom (20 May 2010)

I'm slowly upping the mileage, and added two extra 25 mile training rides on weekday evening to my commutes. I'm touring for 4 days next month and looking at the Three Bridges 160 at the end of July (so hopefully a couple 75 milers before hand)

Oh and just ordered a dawes vantage to train on rather than my unreliable hybrid


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## Arch (20 May 2010)

I feel very dedicated with my extra miles. Today I didn't feel so great this morning, so went straight in (3 miles), meaning I needed to do more this evening to keep up the 10 per day average. Anyway, I detoured over the river, and down the riverside path, and just after Skeldergate bridge, caught up with my boss who'd left after me, and come a more direct route. Down as far as the Millennium Bridge, and I was up to 49 for the week (that includes 10 on Sunday), so it was a u-turn and back home to finish on 50ish.

I'll stick to 10 a day for next week, except Friday, when I have a 50-60 mile ride to Sheffield, from where we set off on Saturday to drive to Portsmouth for the holiday!

After the holiday, I'll see about adding in a mile or two more each day - that'll mean properly getting out of town, instead of just adding little urban loops.

Ever since I got into cycling, I've seen and admired the practicality, and enjoyed the acheivement of touring and so on, but I think this is the first time I've had that slightly addicted feeling...


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## Amanda P (21 May 2010)

Slightly addicted? That's like being slightly pregnant.

You're hooked good - admit it!


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## Arch (22 May 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> Slightly addicted? That's like being slightly pregnant.
> 
> You're hooked good - admit it!



No, I'm definitely not even slightly pregnant....

I am hooked. Although I have to admit that after a pint and a half after work yesterday, I failed to complete the 10 miles for the day - I was barely safe to ride home directly... So it's 55 miles for the week (including last Sunday). And despite beig tired at the end of the working day, the extended ride home never feels like effort.

And yesterday, on the way in, I felt fast, and overtook 10 other cyclists. Ok, only two of them were really trying, and only one then hung on my tail forcing me to maintain my pace, and one of them was a woman on a Raleigh 20 with a flat back tyre....

Taking the trike out tomorrow, no idea how far, it'll depend on how early I feel like getting up, how hot it gets etc. 

Talking to my hairdresser today, told her I was riding to Sheffield next week (the start of my holiday, riding to a friend who giving me a lift to Portsmouth). Her shock was impressive. I decided not to mention the concept of the LEL...


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## arallsopp (22 May 2010)

I hear you there Arch.

My neighbour (who has a bike, but doesn't really ride) used to catch me in the mornings as I'd head out the drive.

"Where you going? I should really get out on my bike some time."
"London" (20 miles)
"I'll come next time"

"Where you going? I should really get out on my bike some time."
"Brighton" (50 miles)
"I'll come next time"

"Where you going? I should really get out on my bike some time."
"Manningtree" (120 miles)
"I'll come next time"

"Where you going? I should really get out on my bike some time."
"Dunwich" (250 miles)
"What? Nobody can ride 250 miles!"

I still remember the feeling of deep satisfaction seeing him getting into his car as I rolled back from Lea Valley.

"Nice ride?"
"Yes thanks"
"Weather's good though, innit?"
"Wasn't in Scotland..."

Got bike and self indoors before he managed to get his jaw back. 

Thing is, with time, food, rest and zipties, I really don't think there's an upperbound distance one can travel.


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## Wildduck (23 May 2010)

Been lurking a while on this forum and never saying much. Building the strength and stamina on the trike. Awaiting delivery of the Rapto midracer next month. LEL looks like the excuse I need to go just that 'little' bit further.......


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## Arch (23 May 2010)

Excellent! If you'd like to be on the map, PM me a rough location - town name will do, unless it's 'London', in which case, narrow it down a bit.

Did 57 very hot miles today, with touring luggage (testing for next week). I hurt a bit by the end, partly due to bad suncream application leading to patches of burn, and partly due to numb/painful feet. Not sure what the problem is there....

And when I got home, the milk made my tea lumpy...


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## arallsopp (24 May 2010)

Suncream. Gah! Rode around yesterday in the heat of the day and got a little rash (but only from hitting the tarmac). Commuted this morning lovingly coated in the stuff by Evey. By the time I hit the top of the first hill, I reckon I was 90% blind! 

Ouch.

Numb feet? This on a 'bent? How high is the BB relative to your hips?
Painful feet? Pinched at the sides, rubbing on your shoes, or a dull ache in the base of the foot, approximately over the pedal?


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## vorsprung (24 May 2010)

Arch said:


> No, I'm definitely not even slightly pregnant....
> 
> I am hooked.



I knew I was hooked on long distance cycling when I did the 100km Cheddar Gorge event in Bristol. It was a dirty slow route and it rained a bit. Then afterwards I rode the 100km back home. Trouble was that there was a headwind and it took far longer than anticipated. The batteries ran out on one of my lights. Then, a few miles from home the bike punctured. I pushed the bike about 1/2 a mile to the nearest streetlamp, fixed the puncture and made it home.

I caught myself thinking "that was fun, I must do that again"


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## Arch (24 May 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Numb feet? This on a 'bent? How high is the BB relative to your hips?
> Painful feet? Pinched at the sides, rubbing on your shoes, or a dull ache in the base of the foot, approximately over the pedal?



Burning pain in balls of feet and big toes - see my other thread. Consensus seems to be getting used to highish bottom bracket, plus heat, and that I'll get used to it. Odd, because it's not like it's the first time I've ridden the Dash a long distance, so I suspect heat is a partial factor.


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## Arch (25 May 2010)

Addiction update:

My now normal just-under-5-miles in, this morning. 

10 miles coming home...


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## mcshroom (13 Jun 2010)

Bit of a general bump for this thread, but how is everyone getting on with this?

I've just finished my first multi-day tour (Hadrian's Cycleway in 4 days using B&Bs) so I'm now a bit happier about putting in the miles day after day . I also found out my bike could go over a hundred miles with the skewer holding the rear axle together


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## PpPete (13 Jun 2010)

Mileage is racking up, thanks to the self motivation of MCL.... (Arch I'm slowly catching you... and I have a JoGLE in August) 

Was going for a 200k Audax next weekend, but child care duties means I will be hauling junior round the 100 on the tandem instead. And more of the same means I can't do the Bognor FNRttC either. GRRR!


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## Danial (16 Jun 2010)

Now my German plans have been thwarted by illness, I hope to ride LEL sometime in July. One plucky rider has already ridden (and written a routesheet for) the southern section, so I hope to be able to check his sterling work so far.


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## Arch (16 Jun 2010)

porkypete said:


> Mileage is racking up, thanks to the self motivation of MCL.... (Arch I'm slowly catching you... and I have a JoGLE in August)



Ah. Just as soon as I can get the site to load, I have 871 miles to add...

Well, I'm back from holiday. Average of about 50 miles a day, 7 days, then two days off, then 7 more days. (plus about 100 more to get me to Sheffield and back for my lift). 

Things learned. The feet thing is probably heat, with a hint of tight shoes. Most days were fine, once or twice it got agonising - always hot days. 

Longest day was 74 miles, and it was hard at the end, but also hot. I just need to work on the distances gradually.

I need to get faster. I managed 10mph average today coming home, the group best was 11mph (this is carrying touring luggage mind, and a convivial pace)


So, really all I need to do is the last two weeks, in under 5 days....


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2010)

I've just done a couple of 200s and some reasonably demanding tours, and have survived, so am just starting to think this might be something to aim for.

Am sending pm with address for map!


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## Arch (7 Jul 2010)

Done!

You Londoners have plenty of potential training company...


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## Danial (8 Jul 2010)

courage, mes amis!


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

<Obi Wan Kenobi voice>

Join us....

</Obi Wan>

How is everyone doing? My tour was good training, and I'm keeping up the extra miles commuting (trying for at least 50 a week at the moment, and going to ramp it up gradually). I'm also trying to push the speed a bit, and I'm now generally running along a gear higher than I was when I swapped to the summer bike in spring. I'm still slow, by comparison to many, but from little acorns...

I failed my target of 100mile ride by the end of May - life got in the way. Still need to crack that, and then a 200k ride by the autumn. I think it's in the mind as much as anything - I know a century will take me all day, and it intimidates me, only having done one before. Need to face that...

(I just mistyped 'face' as 'cafe'. There's a Freudian slip!)


----------



## ianrauk (8 Jul 2010)

Did a 150 miler with a few other peeps on here last Saturday. It seemed pretty easy at the time though I seem to have heavy legs for this weeks commute (not help by a headwind on the way home every bloody day). End of the month I am looking at doing another 150 miler on the Brighton FNRttC. Then will start looking at a 200 miler.


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## arallsopp (8 Jul 2010)

Hmm...

Is it worth setting up a cc-lel group on mycyclinglog? Once joined, all could quickly see how and what each other are doing. Miles will still count for cc, so no impact there.


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## ianrauk (8 Jul 2010)

Fire away and set up mate



arallsopp said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Is it worth setting up a cc-lel group on mycyclinglog? Once joined, all could quickly see how and what each other are doing. Miles will still count for cc, so no impact there.


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Is it worth setting up a cc-lel group on mycyclinglog? Once joined, all could quickly see how and what each other are doing. Miles will still count for cc, so no impact there.



Good idea - can you set it up? We'll then need to ask to join, I guess.

Oh dear, I'm going to be bottom of the list, I suspect.

I'm hoping that for this year, just trying to get a consistent commute mileage and so on will do. 

I did lie on the bed the other night, watching telly, wearing shorts, and look down at my legs and think "Ooh, I've got muscles!" Cue some time spent flexing them to admire the effect. (That's also a good thing about recumbents, you can see the muscles working all the time)


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## stevevw (8 Jul 2010)

Andy
Do you have a gpx of the route you did last year?

I am thinking of splitting the ride in to 4 for training rides probably one per month starting in May each in a single day. Would be a good way of learning the route and of what to expect or dread. 

1. Start - 220 miles Train home
2. Train to 220 miles - Edinburgh - Train home
3. Train to Edinburgh - 220 miles - Train home
4. Train to 220 miles - Finish

Then the following year split in to 2 over a weekend June/July

5. Start - Edinburgh - Train home
6. Train to Edinburgh - Finish


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## ianrauk (8 Jul 2010)

Good plan Steve.
Will look at joining you if you want company



stevevw said:


> I am thinking of splitting the ride in to 4 for training rides probably one per month starting in May each in a single day. Would be a good way of learning the route and of what to expect or dread.
> 
> 1. Start - 220 miles Train home
> 2. Train to 220 miles - Edinburgh - Train home
> ...


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## arallsopp (8 Jul 2010)

Group here: http://www.mycyclinglog.com/group_view.php?gid=633

Will dig up the gpx files when I'm at home next. Or in the office, or indeed anywhere other than kerbside at bikefix looking at 'bents


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Group here: http://www.mycyclinglog.com/group_view.php?gid=633
> 
> Will dig up the gpx files when I'm at home next. Or in the office, or indeed anywhere other than kerbside at bikefix looking at 'bents



Ooh, say hello to anyone who knows Sue from Velo Vision....

Spitting it up like that, is a good idea. Makes it seem almost doable.


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

Request sent to join the group. I assume all my miles go in automatically?


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## Greenbank (8 Jul 2010)

LEL2013 will probably have a different route to LEL2009. It'll be more to the East in the flatlands (South of York) and there's talk of going North via Eskdalemuir but coming back South via Moffat and Lockerbie.

The Barnard Castle - Alston - Brampton - Longtown section should still be there, it's simply one of the best bits of LEL.

I rode the LEL route one way in March 2009 to get an idea of what to expect on the real thing. GPX tracklog was this:-

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/266092

Note that I had to make various adjustments in order to fit in accommodation and food as I had to rely on commercial controls rather than the primary schools and village halls used on LEL. Also made some adjustments so I could ride each day as a DIY Audax and claim points for the rides:-
* Started from home in Putney rather than in Cheshunt
* Day 1 was a DIY 300km Audax to Thorne (Travelodge at M18/M180 services accessed via a side road and along the side of a field)
** First 150km on my own until meeting up with a friend near Peterborough who joined me for the rest of the ride.
** Went via Bourne rather than Thurlby. Also went through Lincoln (LEL2009 went on a big long detour out to Wragby to add some distance)
* Day 2 was a DIY 200km from Thorne to Alston (stayed in a B&.
** Went via Scotch Corner and the A66 rather than the Aldbrough St John
* Day 3 was a DIY 200km from Alston to North Berwick (Dalkeith/Edinburgh wouldn't have been 200km so I needed o go further.)
** Followed what was the proposed LEL route through Canonbie and Claygate, which was much hillier than the final route that simply used the A7.
** GPS ran out of space (10,000 track points) on the A7 towards Edinburgh.
** Finished in North Berwick and got the train back in to Edinburgh. Stayed in the City Travelodge near Edinburgh station. Up the next morning and on to a train back to London.

It definitely helped me riding the route in advance, but it take a bit of the shine off the actual event as it wasn't all new to me. Doing the same roads twice (or 4 times for the shared bits) will only make this worse.

LEL requires 288km a day minimum (24 hours * 12kph), so it may be worth booking accommodation to fit a schedule based on that. Something like:-

Day 1: 300km to Thorne
Day 2: 300km(-ish) to Longtown or Langholm
Day 3: 300km(-ish) up to Edinburgh and back to Alston
Day 4: 300km Alston to Lincoln or Bourne
Day 5: Finish off whatever is left.

Remember that 300km in a day isn't hard, but doing almost 5 consecutive 300km days with less than 3 hours sleep each night makes it all a bit harder.

Note that Cheshunt to Dalkeith isn't quite 700km. LEL2009 was brought up to 1400km with an extra 60km or so by adding in a checkpoint at Wragby after Washingborough on the way North. LEL 2013 will be making the route at least 1400km in a different way.

One word of warning: After you've got over the first few lumps in Hertfordshire the rest of the southern section (Gamlingay to Thorne) is frighteningly dull, but it's good for building up a time buffer. It starts getting much more interesting after Middleton Tyas.


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## PpPete (8 Jul 2010)

Request sent to join.

My miles took a dip last month compared with May, but still made it over the 1000 miles.

Struggling to find enough hills to provide training for the ChrisWalkerCycleChallenge (only 2 weeks to go now)

And my JoGLE in August will be good for another 1000.

Back to running for September & October if we get a place in the OMM.
Although might be able to sneak an Audax 200 in somewhere.

Must do a 300 next year.


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## Ravenbait (8 Jul 2010)

As tempting as this is, I'm still waiting to be injury-free for long enough to do the middle distance triathlon I've been talking about for the past 2 years. Maybe I'll have a better idea of what my sporting plans will be after I've seen the orthopaedic consultant.

Sam


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## stevevw (8 Jul 2010)

Just seen this.
http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/route.html

No exact route but good enough to work out the training for now.


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

Cool! I often go to Pocklington, it'll be amazing to come through there on the LEL!

I note there is an email address to register your interest, and they'll be in touch nearer the time. I've emailed!

That's it, no going back...


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## Arch (8 Jul 2010)

Arch said:


> Request sent to join the group. I assume all my miles go in automatically?



Hey! I'm not last!

Yet...


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## mcshroom (8 Jul 2010)

Request sent. I'll be last as I've only just signed up for a cyclelogs account


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## Arch (12 Jul 2010)

Um, this thread seems to have been locked - I can reply, maybe it's my mod status. I'll look into it... A glitch I expect.


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## Arch (13 Jul 2010)

Right, well, no idea what happened there. Unlocked now..


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## mcshroom (13 Jul 2010)

yes we can post again now


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## toontra (13 Jul 2010)

stevevw said:


> Just seen this.
> http://www.londonedi....com/route.html
> 
> No exact route but good enough to work out the training for now.




Wow. That's a pretty major change from previous routes.


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## arallsopp (14 Jul 2010)

Hurrah! We're back. Well done all.

I think I'm up to date on all the requests for mycyclinglog, so thats good. Are people still needing the GPS tracks? I can possibly put them in the new downloads area. GPX ok?


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## Jmetz (14 Jul 2010)

This is something myself and DaleB are highly keen on, plenty of preperation time also.


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## Arch (15 Jul 2010)

Jmetz said:


> This is something myself and DaleB are highly keen on, plenty of preperation time also.



Well, if you want to go on the map of prospective idiots participants, PM me with rough locations for you.


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## DrMekon (15 Jul 2010)

Having recently read a book about zip ties, I took the opportunity of my wife mentioning she's planning to do a marathon to raise the subject of LEL2013 and got a provisional yes. I've registered with MyCyclingLog and requested to join the group. I've only ever done a 200km, and that was only last month. It was also the first time I'd ridden more than 40 miles on road, so it seems a ridiculous goal at the mo'.

What with a 8 month old, a 4 yr old, and a wife who has her own exercise goals, the commute will be my main way of getting up to speed. I am aiming for 10000km this year (commute is 28km each way, but completely flat), and am at 6,286.61km according to bikejournal. I'll be surprised if I get more than a 300km event in before next year, and that will probably have to be a DIY on the Mildenhall 300km route if I can find a GPX.

Very excited to have got an initial pass. I was getting a bit bored with the yearly distance goal, and this gives me something else to think about.


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## stevevw (15 Jul 2010)

DrMekon said:


> I'll be surprised if I get more than a 300km event in before next year, and that will probably have to be a DIY on the Mildenhall 300km route if I can find a GPX.



If you find a GPX of that can you let me have a copy or tell me how to find it. Not that far from me and sounds like it may be a flatish 300km which would be nice for a change.


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## Arch (15 Jul 2010)

DrMekon said:


> Having recently read a book about zip ties, I took the opportunity of my wife mentioning she's planning to do a marathon to raise the subject of LEL2013 and got a provisional yes. I've registered with MyCyclingLog and requested to join the group. *I've only ever done a 200km, and that was only last month*. It was also the first time I'd ridden more than 40 miles on road, so it seems a ridiculous goal at the mo'.
> 
> What with a 8 month old, a 4 yr old, and a wife who has her own exercise goals, the commute will be my main way of getting up to speed. I am aiming for 10000km this year (commute is 28km each way, but completely flat), and am at 6,286.61km according to bikejournal. I'll be surprised if I get more than a 300km event in before next year, and that will probably have to be a DIY on the Mildenhall 300km route if I can find a GPX.
> 
> Very excited to have got an initial pass. I was getting a bit bored with the yearly distance goal, and this gives me something else to think about.



I've yet to do that! I've done a 100miles, once. 200km is my target for the summer.

Many of us have a long way to go - metaphorically and literally. I like to think that is what this thread is for, to get us there.

I'm gradually upping the commute miles, as that's something I do everyday. And it's a mental test as well as a physical one, to do 5 or 10 miles where 1.5 will get me home.


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## arallsopp (15 Jul 2010)

DrMekon said:


> Having recently read a book about zip ties, I took the opportunity of my wife mentioning she's planning to do a marathon to raise the subject of LEL2013 and got a provisional yes. I've registered with MyCyclingLog and requested to join the group.




Welcome aboard DrMekon. If you're planning to bring the bakfiets along, I'll happily type the next one up as we go. There's room for me in the box right?


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## Arch (15 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Welcome aboard DrMekon. If you're planning to bring the bakfiets along, I'll happily type the next one up as we go. There's room for me in the box right?





Everyso often, I have a crazy thought about our work Maximus trikes.... But I slap my face a bit, and it goes away....


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## DrMekon (15 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Welcome aboard DrMekon. If you're planning to bring the bakfiets along, I'll happily type the next one up as we go. There's room for me in the box right?






Arch said:


> Everyso often, I have a crazy thought about our work Maximus trikes.... But I slap my face a bit, and it goes away....



Travis from BikeNounVerb is doing Seattle To Portland on a Metrofiets...

But no, no plans to do it on a bakfiets. However, either of you are welcome to borrow mine for it. It's very comfortable.


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## DaleB (15 Jul 2010)

Jmetz said:


> This is something myself and DaleB are highly keen on, plenty of preperation time also.



I don'k know - could of done with a couple more years!


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## frank9755 (18 Jul 2010)

Arch said:


> I've yet to do that! I've done a 100miles, once. 200km is my target for the summer.
> 
> Many of us have a long way to go - metaphorically and literally. I like to think that is what this thread is for, to get us there.
> 
> I'm gradually upping the commute miles, as that's something I do everyday. And it's a mental test as well as a physical one, to do 5 or 10 miles where 1.5 will get me home.



I think that's right.

I've pushed up my distances quite a bit this year. Previously, I hadn't done 100 miles in a day, nor done an audax. I then did 98 miles on three different days (by complete co-incidence) and all were with a touring load. I broke the 100 mile barrier on my first 200km audax and it was very hard. I've since done a second 200km, and also a 120 mile day ride, which were both much easier and I felt a lot stronger. 

I've now entered a 400km in August. I'm pretty terrified by the prospect. If I can do it, great. If I can't make it, then I will still feel I've made progress overall this year, and may at least learn some lessons to make it easier next time.


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## mcshroom (18 Jul 2010)

You lot are all worrying me now with these distances. I only made it to 75 miles for the first time yesterday


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## redjedi (20 Jul 2010)

I's been a while since I last checked in here, and I think my preparations are lagging a bit 

Dun Run this weekend should be 150+ miles over night as long as I at least cycle back to Ipswich to get the train home (a small part of me wants to cycle all the way home, but it's very small



)

Request sent to join the CC LEL group on cyclelogs.


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## ianrauk (20 Jul 2010)

Don't worry, you still have a few years to get some practice in...


mcshroom said:


> You lot are all worrying me now with these distances. I only made it to 75 miles for the first time yesterday


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## chevin (21 Jul 2010)

I hesitate to say this, but I'd like to add my name to the list if it's not too far into the thread (only 5 months and 30-odd pages behind everybody else!). Need to commit, otherwise will faff around umming and aaahing forever.


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## ianrauk (21 Jul 2010)

The more the merrier Chevin. Welcome aboard.
Send Arch your postcode and she will add you to the map.


chevin said:


> I hesitate to say this, but I'd like to add my name to the list if it's not too far into the thread (only 5 months and 30-odd pages behind everybody else!). Need to commit, otherwise will faff around umming and aaahing forever.


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## Arch (21 Jul 2010)

ianrauk said:


> The more the merrier Chevin. Welcome aboard.
> Send Arch your postcode and she will add you to the map.



Postcode, town name, it doesn't have to be too precise....


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## chevin (23 Jul 2010)

Arch said:


> Postcode, town name, it doesn't have to be too precise....


Wow! That was quick!


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## Arch (24 Jul 2010)

chevin said:


> Wow! That was quick!



Ah, I never sleep.

Well, I mean, I'm on CC most evenings and the map is easy to edit...


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## spoke (25 Jul 2010)

New to this forum, but not new to cycling




Please put me on the map, i've send the PM


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## Arch (25 Jul 2010)

Done!


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## arallsopp (28 Jul 2010)

Morning all.


Hey! This thread is now officially two pages longer than the report that spawned it 


That's proper endurance, that is 


Well done all. Can't wait to see the CC team on the line.


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## chevin (28 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Morning all.
> 
> Hey! This thread is now officially two pages longer than the report that spawned it
> 
> ...



In exactly 3 years today!


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## stevevw (28 Jul 2010)

Three years to build a bike and loose another 4 stone, one of them should be easy enough


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## mcshroom (28 Jul 2010)

stevevw said:


> Three years to build a bike and loose another 4 stone, one of them should be easy enough



Nah I'm sure the bike could be built by then


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## mcshroom (28 Jul 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Morning all.
> 
> Hey! This thread is now officially two pages longer than the report that spawned it
> 
> ...




I actually fell into this thread through the "Anyone mad enough to be even considering" line in Arch's first post. 


I've just finished reading that other thread and all I can say is WOW! 

The event seemed tough an amazing, but your writing skills are brilliant - I could actually imagine being there. Amazing story (book now ordered) and if you could do that off 1 years trainig then I have no excuse with the luxury of three full years to get there.


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## Arch (28 Jul 2010)

I have my copy of the book sitting on my dining table/desk all the time, it's never made it to the shelves. I'm re reading it for about the 5th time.


3 years today eh?


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## Norry1 (28 Jul 2010)

Looks interesting.

Can someone give a bit of a description.

How long does it take? How many hours in a day are you riding etc etc

Martin


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## mcshroom (28 Jul 2010)

Norry there's a descripton of the route and event here.

Basically the route is 1400km (850 miles) and you have to complete it in 5 days. The clock starts as you set off on day one and doesn't stop until you arrive back in London 5 days later, including sleep, food whatever else.

Arallsopp (and a few others) completed the ride in 2009 and it took him just over 107hrs all in. I really suggest you read his thread about it. The write up is great - though it will take a while 

So are you in?


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## Norry1 (28 Jul 2010)

mcshroom said:


> Norry there's a descripton of the route and event here.
> 
> Basically the route is 1400km (850 miles) and you have to complete it in 5 days. The clock starts as you set off on day one and doesn't stop until you arrive back in London 5 days later, including sleep, food whatever else.
> 
> ...



Posted my question when I was on page 8 of this thread - and since seen a bit more description (long thread isn't it  )

I do like a challenge - so this kind of appeals. Give me a while to carry on reading and you may have a convert. I'm in Warwick though and notice nobody is anywhere near me on the Google Map  

Martin


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## PpPete (29 Jul 2010)

Norry1 said:


> Posted my question when I was on page 8 of this thread - and since seen a bit more description (long thread isn't it  )
> 
> I do like a challenge - so this kind of appeals. Give me a while to carry on reading and you may have a convert. I'm in Warwick though and notice nobody is anywhere near me on the Google Map
> 
> Martin



Nobody close to me either mate. Still planning to do it though. Assuming my JoGLE (starts Monday) hasn't put me off. 
Think I'm about to sign up another customer for my business in 3rd quarter which should make the Van Nic Yukon affordable.....
The Chris Walker Challenge made me think my '87 Galaxy is a touch heavy by modern standards.....


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## Norry1 (29 Jul 2010)

What sort of costs are involved? The website doesn't say, unless I missed it.

Martin


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2010)

Bugger. I _so_ want to do this. Nearly entered the last one on a whim after reading about it in Arrivee. I just need to convince Baggy that it would be a good idea...


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## ianrauk (29 Jul 2010)

Ripe for LEL tandem ride I reckon?


Chuffy said:


> Bugger. I _so_ want to do this. Nearly entered the last one on a whim after reading about it in Arrivee. I just need to convince Baggy that it would be a good idea...


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## Arch (29 Jul 2010)

Norry1 said:


> Posted my question when I was on page 8 of this thread - and since seen a bit more description (long thread isn't it  )
> 
> I do like a challenge - so this kind of appeals. Give me a while to carry on reading and you may have a convert. I'm in Warwick though and notice nobody is anywhere near me on the Google Map
> 
> Martin



I sort of thought that at first - so many people in London and the surroundings... Just me and Uncle Phil up here at first.

But then, thinking about it, and the distances we're committing to... We're not so very far apart! I realised early on that riding to my sister, in WINCHESTER, would eventually be a good training ride.

As for costs, I don't know - Arallsopp or any of the others who did the last one will. Basically, it's whatever the entrance fee is. Accommodation is wherever you happen to fall when you can't go on...

Once you decide, or even if you just want to be a definite maybe, give me the nod to add you to the map.

Come on Chuffers, you know you want to. Maybe Baggy does too?


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2010)

Arch said:


> Come on Chuffers, you know you want to. Maybe Baggy does too?


Well, she _does_ want a tandem. Maybe I should apply husbandly blackmail...


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## Nuncio (29 Jul 2010)

Norry1 said:


> What sort of costs are involved? The website doesn't say, unless I missed it.
> 
> Martin



Last year I think it was around £150. It sounds a lot but it covered good food and 'accommodation' for four-and-a-bit-days. I only dipped into my pocket once on the whole ride - for a lolly at Scorten.

And you pay extra for jersey and pre/post-event YHA accommodation.


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## arallsopp (30 Jul 2010)

Nuncio said:


> Last year I think it was around £150. It sounds a lot but it covered good food and 'accommodation' for four-and-a-bit-days. I only dipped into my pocket once on the whole ride - for a lolly at Scorten.
> 
> And you pay extra for jersey and pre/post-event YHA accommodation.



Yep. I can confirm that. £150 all in, which covered an awful lot of food, and a veritable dearth of beds. Its the best money I ever spent. I still wear the jersey, and keep promising myself I'll take the number off my bike. Soon. No really. Well maybe. 



mcshroom said:


> I've just finished reading that other thread and all I can say is WOW! [...] Amazing story (book now ordered)



Hey! Thanks mcshroom. I'm really glad you're enjoying it. This means a lot to me.

Andy.


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## DrMekon (2 Aug 2010)

Well, a week away on hols hasn't hurt my BMI target, but I've fallen behind on the distance goals. Fortunately, my missus has seen fit to give me a pass for a YACF FNRTTS and the Mildenhall 300. Anyone else putting in for Mildenhall? I must admit, I am nervous, despite feeling brilliant after my first 200.


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## MancSimon (10 Aug 2010)

Dr, I've just put an entry in for Mildenhall. It'll be my first 300 - I got all enthusiastic after the Dunwich Dynamo.

Say hello, I should have my Team Cambridge top on.

Cheers
Si


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## DrMekon (11 Aug 2010)

MancSimon said:


> Dr, I've just put an entry in for Mildenhall. It'll be my first 300 - I got all enthusiastic after the Dunwich Dynamo.
> 
> Say hello, I should have my Team Cambridge top on.
> 
> ...



Will do. I will be the man with the orange bar tape and matching YACF top looking nervous. Doing a 200 this weekend in an effort to get prepared. Pass for FNRTTC has been rescinded, so am going to try to do some late night/very early morning rides next week too.


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## DrMekon (17 Aug 2010)

The 200km was 233km in total once I'd ridden to and from the start/finish. Managed a moving average of 23.5km, and did it in 14 hours dead, which was comfortably within the limit for 200km. Felt great at the end, and am feeling good for the 300km at the end of the month. I hope it's not overconfidence, as so far, it's all fun. SimonP had plenty of horrendous tales of physical and mental breakdown in poor conditions and at long distances, but I hope I'm going to avoid all that. That said, I couldn't make sense of the coins in my pocket before we ate at 150km...


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## hulver (17 Aug 2010)

DrMekon said:


> The 200km was 233km in total once I'd ridden to and from the start/finish. Managed a moving average of 23.5km, and did it in 14 hours dead, which was comfortably within the limit for 200km. Felt great at the end, and am feeling good for the 300km at the end of the month. I hope it's not overconfidence, as so far, it's all fun. SimonP had plenty of horrendous tales of physical and mental breakdown in poor conditions and at long distances, but I hope I'm going to avoid all that. That said, I couldn't make sense of the coins in my pocket before we ate at 150km...



I thought the Min speed for a 200km was 14.3km/hr. Which works out as just under 14 hours.

Of course, if the speed was for the distance of 233km, then you'll have over 16 hours, but I thought they did the min speed on the points distance.

Just checking, because I'm doing a DIY 200km on Friday. The DIY 200km page has got a 14.3 min speed on it.


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## DrMekon (18 Aug 2010)

hulver said:


> I thought the Min speed for a 200km was 14.3km/hr. Which works out as just under 14 hours.
> 
> Of course, if the speed was for the distance of 233km, then you'll have over 16 hours, but I thought they did the min speed on the points distance.
> 
> Just checking, because I'm doing a DIY 200km on Friday. The DIY 200km page has got a 14.3 min speed on it.



The 233km included the ride to and from the start, and the time involved lots of chatting at the end. Simon said something about us being well under the time, and that included 3 long stops where large quantities of food were consumed. I didn't bother doing a new track for just the audax route, which I think comes out at close to 210km (ask simonp on yacf), but looking at the timings, it looks like we started just after 8am, and were back before 9pm.. I think 210km is close to the allowed limit for a route before it wouldn't be allowed for being over distance, and you don't get any time allowance for the extra 10km afaik, but someone well-versed in the ways of auk would be a better person to ask.

The route for simon's 200km was good, with very little traffic. It's on September 26th in Hauxton. I'd do it again, but I have parental duties to attend to. My guess is it'd be an ideal first event, and the use of good coffee shops/cafe's makes it very easy to treat yourself to some nice food. I finished in a really good mood, albeit helped in no small part by Simon's company.

Page for the event is here - http://www.aukweb.net/cal/calsolo.php?Ride=10-600

What with the commutes and a ride with a local cc secretary last night, I'll be at 500km ish for the last 4 days. My wife is away, and the cupboards are starting to look a bit bare.


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## iZaP (18 Aug 2010)

Count me in, even tho, three years is a looong way, by then, ill have a degree, lol.

But i reckon it's just enough time for me to get in a very good shape to complete LEL.


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## Greenbank (19 Aug 2010)

DrMekon said:


> I think 210km is close to the allowed limit for a route before it wouldn't be allowed for being over distance, and you don't get any time allowance for the extra 10km afaik, but someone well-versed in the ways of auk would be a better person to ask.



It all depends on whether the ride is BR or BRM (the extra M means it is run under slightly stricter rules as it gets validated/homologated by ACP in France).

For a BR ride of 208km Audax the organiser can set any minimum speed between 14.3kph and 15kph. So you could have any amount of time between:-

208/15 = 13h52m and 208/14.3 = 14h32m

BRM rides (up to 800km) have a minimum average speed of 15kph *EXCEPT* for a 200 and a 400 which have specified timelimits of 13h30 and 27h respectively (which equate to a minimum average speed of 14.81kph); not entirely sure why but probably related to the original definition of Audax in the late 1800s which was a ride done between sunrise and sunset.

For a BRM ride you also don't get any extra time for it being over distance, so you get 13h30 whether it is bang on 200km or 210km. BRM rides should not be more than 5% over distance because of this, but some still are (the good thing about rules is they are often ignored/broken).

For longer rides (like PBP or LEL) the minimum average speeds change (whether it is BR or BRM). PBP is 1200km and 13.3kph, LEL is 1400km and 12kph. More details on the AUK website.

DIY rides are BR, so the 14.3kph minimum average speed limit applies, plus you also get extra time for the full agreed distance.

Note that the distance of an Audax may not be the distance used to calculate the timings and finish cut off. The cutoff times are based on the total distance of the route following the shortest distance between the controls; this may not be the route the organiser has decided to take.

An example of this is the Upper Thames. It's a 200km Audax with a shortest distance between controls of 208km (if you took some main roads), but to get off those major roads the routesheet uses a slightly longer route that comes out as 213km. The time limits (IIRC) should be based on the 208km distance since that is all that visiting all of the controls guarantees you to have cycled.

My DIY ride up to Cambridge and back is a shade over 200km using Autoroute, but that uses big chunks of the A10 that I don't really want to cycle on, so my actual route is closer to 216km, but I still only get the time to complete 200km (albeit at 14.3kph minimum so a shade under 14 hours).

Anyway, none of this is that important for a ride like LEL where you just plug away keeping an eye on the time limits until day 2 or 3 where you can't even remember what day it is.


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## hulver (21 Aug 2010)

I finished my first 200km yesterday.

Route was 212km, I cycled 236.5km. I was less than two minutes over the time limit.






I'm glad to have done the ride, it's the furthest I've done in one go before. Shame about the time limit though, I've got to get quicker.


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## arallsopp (25 Aug 2010)

Greenbank said:


> Anyway, none of this is that important for a ride like LEL where you just plug away keeping an eye on the time limits until day 2 or 3 where you can't even remember what day it is.




...and therein lies the truth. At least, I think it does. I don't remember if it was day 2 or 3 when I started losing track of things. Broadly speaking, there's a bit of tarmac that reaches ahead for a week. Sometimes its smooth. Sometimes its coarse. Sometimes its lit by the sun. Sometimes by the moon. Sometimes its underwater. Sometimes its under gravel. Sometimes it goes up. Sometimes it goes down. 

The trick is to stay on it through as much of the above as possible.


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## PpPete (25 Aug 2010)

arallsopp said:


> ...and therein lies the truth. At least, I think it does. I don't remember if it was day 2 or 3 when I started losing track of things. Broadly speaking, there's a bit of tarmac that reaches ahead for a week. Sometimes its smooth. Sometimes its coarse. Sometimes its lit by the sun. Sometimes by the moon. Sometimes its underwater. Sometimes its under gravel. Sometimes it goes up. Sometimes it goes down.
> 
> The trick is to stay on it through as much of the above as possible.



I think that's about it....
Just done a 20 day E2E on which we slept on hard floors on all but 2 nights. I've been trying to write it up but it's all a bit of a blur, despite being very modest mileages in comparison with LEL. Still my MCL total is now comfortably over 2000 miles, even if my average speed is way down.

Really want to do a 200 before weather turns bad  but there's none local that are on convenient dates.


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## DrMekon (26 Aug 2010)

How long to you guys take to create a gpx file? I am using the waypoints (with sequentially numbered with route instructions as their name) + direct routing + underlying track approach. I'll acknowledge that compared to the "just a track" approach, it's a bit belt and braces, but it's taken forever. Must have taken nearly 10 hours all told.


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## Greenbank (26 Aug 2010)

DrMekon said:


> How long to you guys take to create a gpx file? I am using the waypoints (with sequentially numbered with route instructions as their name) + direct routing + underlying track approach. I'll acknowledge that compared to the "just a track" approach, it's a bit belt and braces, but it's taken forever. Must have taken nearly 10 hours all told.



A 200 in about half an hour from start to finish using the same method (one routepoint per routesheet instruction, sequentially numbered).

I use the routesheet to plot out a track on bikehike/bikely/whatever first. Once I'm happy that I know where the route goes (based on the routesheet) then I'll turn off 'follow roads' and plot out a route of one point per instruction as I now know which junctions correspond to which routesheet instructions.

I'll admit my first attempt at this may have taken more than half an hour. I can now usually forego the track option as I know what kinds of junctions on maps will translate into routesheet instructions. Looking ahead a few instructions (for placenames that you go through) helps as you can keep an eye on whether or not you're going in the right direction or not.

Haven't bothered with a track before now as I only had a bog standard eTrex (with no mapping).


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## EssexRider (26 Aug 2010)

I wanted to do the last one but tore my ACL and LCL which gave me 6 months off of training 

not too sure I really want to do this but I just don't think I could do it haha


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## Arch (26 Aug 2010)

<Irish Accent>

Ah, go go, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on....

</Irish Accent>

Why not have a try anyway. Even if you never do it, you'll get really fit training...


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## EssexRider (26 Aug 2010)

well the starting point Redbridge is East London.... I live West Essex so I can't use getting there and back as an excuse can I 

Suppose I'd be interested in doing it with a group of people, definately wouldn't on my own..


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## Norry1 (27 Aug 2010)

DrMekon said:


> How long to you guys take to create a gpx file? I am using the waypoints (with sequentially numbered with route instructions as their name) + direct routing + underlying track approach. I'll acknowledge that compared to the "just a track" approach, it's a bit belt and braces, but it's taken forever. Must have taken nearly 10 hours all told.



What is the advantage of using waypoints? When I make a gpx, I just trace the route out on say mapmyride and then save it as a gpx and download to my Garmin - 

How do you use waypoints - and why is it better? 

By the way, still interested in the LEL, but I don't like to sign up to something unless I'm definite.

Martin


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## Greenbank (27 Aug 2010)

Norry1 said:


> What is the advantage of using waypoints? When I make a gpx, I just trace the route out on say mapmyride and then save it as a gpx and download to my Garmin -
> 
> How do you use waypoints - and why is it better?
> 
> ...



This is a good starting point: http://www.soi.city.ac.uk/~jwo/landserf/audax/

Particularly the section: How do I create a GPS route to navigate with?

It's particularly useful for GPSes that don't have any form of mapping.
http://


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## DrMekon (30 Aug 2010)

Nice to meet MancSimon, albeit briefly, on the Mildenhall 300.

I had a great day out, spent mostly trying to hang onto the coat tails of a chap who was intent on getting around in 15 hours. We did it; getting back at 6.52pm. Great fun and really good company.

Felt spent at the end, but ecstatic to have made it around so much quicker than I expected. Has made me realise, I need to get some hilly 200 and 300kms in before I make the leap to 400kms. It's also convinced my wife that she wants to do a 100. Possibly going to enter PBP with her... Pyecombe-Billingshurst-Pycombe, that is.


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## PpPete (30 Aug 2010)

Norry1 said:


> What is the advantage of using waypoints? When I make a gpx, I just trace the route out on say mapmyride and then save it as a gpx and download to my Garmin -
> 
> How do you use waypoints - and why is it better?
> 
> ...



I'm another that doesn't bother with Routes.... just make a Track on bikehike, use the Options to cut it to 500 points, before sending it to the Legend HCx.
Might be different if I had a non-mapping GPS.
Tend to put waypoints for Info controls if I remember so I don't sail right past them


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## DrMekon (30 Aug 2010)

porkypete said:


> I'm another that doesn't bother with Routes.... just make a Track on bikehike, use the Options to cut it to 500 points, before sending it to the Legend HCx.
> Might be different if I had a non-mapping GPS.
> Tend to put waypoints for Info controls if I remember so I don't sail right past them



I miss turnings like you miss controls. Even with the alerts on routes, I am a terror for getting lost in conversation. Next thing, I am having to zoom right out because the track and route are nowhere to be seen. There's no way I could enjoy a ride concentrating on following a line. At least I know with routes that I ought to concentrate in X many km.


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## Greenbank (30 Aug 2010)

DrMekon said:


> I miss turnings like you miss controls. Even with the alerts on routes, I am a terror for getting lost in conversation. Next thing, I am having to zoom right out because the track and route are nowhere to be seen. There's no way I could enjoy a ride concentrating on following a line. At least I know with routes that I ought to concentrate in X many km.



I used to work as a grill chef, everything in my working life had to be done in a time that was measured in minutes, with about 20 minutes max.

Part of the reason I use a route is that I can look at the next instruction and see it's 3.2km away and the GPS is telling me I'll be there in about 6 minutes. I can then zone out for 5 and a half minutes, get lost in conversation or just looking at the stars, but my inbuilt timer wakes me up and makes me look at the GPS again to see that it's 500m away and only 50 seconds to go. I rarely miss a turn this way (although it's not entirely perfect).

I can't use tracks as I can't be bothered to focus on them all that time. I want it to tell me what I wanted it to tell me when I told it to tell me, not at numerous points in-between.


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## PpPete (31 Aug 2010)

Greenbank said:


> I used to work as a grill chef, everything in my working life had to be done in a time that was measured in minutes, with about 20 minutes max.
> 
> Part of the reason I use a route is that I can look at the next instruction and see it's 3.2km away and the GPS is telling me I'll be there in about 6 minutes. I can then zone out for 5 and a half minutes, get lost in conversation or just looking at the stars, but my inbuilt timer wakes me up and makes me look at the GPS again to see that it's 500m away and only 50 seconds to go. I rarely miss a turn this way (although it's not entirely perfect).
> 
> I can't use tracks as I can't be bothered to focus on them all that time. I want it to tell me what I wanted it to tell me when I told it to tell me, not at numerous points in-between.



I certainly don't focus on the tracks all the time.  Just glance down occasionally to check i'm still following the "line" on the screen and to take in which direction I'll be heading at next junction ( I can never memorise more than one instruction at once). I must try creating a "Route" one of these days.


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## arallsopp (31 Aug 2010)

I'm the belt and braces approach too. Track under the route. Waypoints for each instruction. Works for me, as the GPS beeps and lights up when I approach a turn, and otherwise stays silent and dark.

Moonlit long straights and roads without junctions do yield some in the dark backlight stabbing (whilst you frantically wonder if the next turn really is still coming, or whether the batteries died 20km back) but its otherwise perfect.

The LEL cuesheet was very good, and didn't have any of the spare instructions that you'd get using googlemaps to build a route. If it says 'left' it doesn't mean "keep left on the road you're already on rather than go down that alleyway that nobody in their rightmind would take." It means "go left".

Although it takes some time to put the route sheet in, its a lot faster with two of you (one reading out, one plotting in) and gives the added comfort of familiarity when you come to ride it.
If you want to see what last year's finished article looks like (and you have garmin mapsource installed) click these:

http://arallsopp.webs.com/SOUTHBOUND.gdb
http://arallsopp.webs.com/NORTHBOUND.gdb

Oh. Ps. Welcome vintagesteel.


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## velovoice (1 Sep 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Oh. Ps. Welcome vintagesteel.




Hiya







EDIT: Had trouble registering on this forum, have only just noticed tonight that it's changed my profile name from vintagesteel to my real one.




Oh well.


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## yello (2 Sep 2010)

I'm another that just uses tracks. I find a glance at the GPS as I approach an intersection usually does the trick. 

But, to be honest, the route sheet for LEL is so good there isn't really a need for a GPS. Things got a bit funky in and around some of the controls; a GPS would have been of use there but I still wouldn't say a necessity. Put in this way, I'll seriously consider not bothering with a GPS next time. I might take it to to log ride data but not for route following. I found I didn't really need it.

Now that the summer is done, I can start thinking of getting some miles in for PBP. I don't have many official audax type rides around me, so I have to plan my own. That's a blessing and a curse tbh. Great to ride as and when you want but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the event of an organised ride, and the companionship. It's pretty tough to motivate yourself to do a DIY 300 solo!


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## Panoramix (3 Sep 2010)

2013 is a long way ahead with a lot of other rides to do before, but the chances are that I will be at the start of LEL!


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## Arch (6 Sep 2010)

RebeccaOlds said:


> Hiya
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think if you email Admin, he can sort it for you, he's a most obliging chap.


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## SteelRex (11 Sep 2010)

Sign me up. 


Hello  from Northern California (Sacramento-ish) I’m new to audax riding, but I do currently participate in 200 mile events (aka double centuries). Randoneuring is the next logical challenge, but PBP in 2011 seems too much, too soon. I stumbled on to a reference to LEL on the web. Between the location and the timing, it seems like a better fit. 


So fair warning, I’ll cough up the occasional dumb question over the next couple of years. 


Cheers!!!


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## PpPete (11 Sep 2010)

No questions are "dumb" Mr Rex - or may we call you Steel?

Many of us increase our store of knowledge by reading the answers to questions which we havn't had the balls to ask for ourselves.

Oh and ....Welcome to the forum.


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## Arch (11 Sep 2010)

Welcome Steel, I'll add you to the map. I think you are our first USA-ian!

(Hmm, that might have tested my geography, luckily Sacremento shows up at quite large scale!)


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## Arch (11 Sep 2010)

Oh, and have you visited the UK before? If not, things to note are:

Tea is a drink. Like coffee, only more important.

Tea is also a meal. Usually sandwiches and cake, and tea (the drink).

Fanny means something subtly different over here....

As for the questions, ask away! We all benefit from each other's ignorances, if you get what I mean...


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## ACS (11 Sep 2010)

Arch said:


> Oh, and have you visited the UK before? If not, things to note are:
> 
> Tea is a drink. Like coffee, only more important.
> 
> ...



I lurk on this thread for lots of reasons and I would like to suggest that beer is more important that tea (the drink) but not as important as tea (the meal).

The observation is based on being in a pub with a lots of Audax participants.

Now crawling back into my hiding place


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## SteelRex (12 Sep 2010)

Let's see if I can navigate this reply with quote thing....

Let's go with "Rex".	Not sure we know each other well enough to go with "Steel"... yet.. 




Arch said:


> Oh, and have you visited the UK before? If not, things to note are:
> 
> * Visited UK 1979-80 for a year, 1991 for a couple of weeks and 2000 with Boy Scouts at Blair Athol.
> * See about me for a few more details
> ...



Andy's book arrived in the "Post" today. Looking forward to reading it.

Thanks for the welcome.


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## Arch (12 Sep 2010)

SteelRex said:


> Andy's book arrived in the "Post" today. Looking forward to reading it.
> 
> Thanks for the welcome.



Oh yes, that's an oddity. Over there, the Postal Service deliver your mail. Over here, the Royal Mail deliver our post.

Well, until they are finally sold into oblivion....

Ok, you're clearly well versed in the eccentric ways of the British... 

And I can't recommend the book enough. Brilliant stuff!


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## PalmerSperry (13 Sep 2010)

Arch said:


> Welcome Steel, I'll add you to the map. I think you are our first USA-ian!
> 
> (Hmm, that might have tested my geography, luckily Sacremento shows up at quite large scale!)



Having just had a quick glance at the map I see the "international contingent" is starting to appear.


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## PpPete (13 Sep 2010)

Just noticed the list of finishers from 2009 on the AUK site.
Less than half showed their nationality as British !


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## Tynan (17 Sep 2010)

3 years away isn;t even finger in the air distance, I'd love to but ffs


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## PpPete (18 Sep 2010)

Another recruit...although not directly from the forum. Mrs PP has now read some of the Arrivée write-ups for 2009 and plans to join the fun.


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## PalmerSperry (18 Sep 2010)

porkypete said:


> Just noticed the list of finishers from 2009 on the AUK site.
> Less than half showed their nationality as British !



It is nationality or country they entered from? Just wondering because if it's the former then come 2013 then I might listed a British whilst wearing a top that looks like this!


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## PpPete (19 Sep 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> It is nationality or country they entered from? Just wondering because if it's the former then come 2013 then I might listed a British whilst wearing a top that looks like this!



I don't know what criteria was applied on this page http://www.aukweb.net/el/lel09finish.htm

That's a nice looking jersey !


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## mcshroom (19 Sep 2010)

porkypete said:


> I don't know what criteria was applied on this page http://www.aukweb.ne...lel09finish.htm
> 
> That's a nice looking jersey !



There's a lot of Italians on that list, they can't have all fitted in that motorhome 

+1 on the Jersey - that looks very well designed


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## PalmerSperry (19 Sep 2010)

mcshroom said:


> There's a lot of Italians on that list, they can't have all fitted in that motorhome



Maybe they where hot bunking?



mcshroom said:


> +1 on the Jersey - that looks very well designed



Sprint Design do quite a large number of nice jerseys, but they're not exactly cheap ...


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## yello (19 Sep 2010)

It's nationality; I live in France and am shown as 'British' on that list.


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## SteelRex (20 Sep 2010)

PalmerSperry said:


> It is nationality or country they entered from? Just wondering because if it's the former then come 2013 then I might listed a British whilst wearing a top that looks like this!




I suppose that since my Scottish ancestors travelled across the Atlantic in the 1720’s, I’ll have to resort to listing my nationality as USA, although “MUTT” might be more accurate. 

I was considering having some cycling shorts made up with the clan tartan as I suspect cycling in my kilt would prove uncomfortable. With a minimum order of 15 pairs, I’ll need to find some similarly minded Celts to go along with me. More on that perhaps in early 2013.


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## Arch (20 Sep 2010)

porkypete said:


> Another recruit...although not directly from the forum. Mrs PP has now read some of the Arrivée write-ups for 2009 and plans to join the fun.



Would she like her own pin in the map, or share yours?

Well, I made another step this weekend. The YACF night ride to Scarborough, and me riding back, gave me all my targets for the summer in one fell swoop: a night ride, an imperial century on the trike, and a 200km for the first time ever. 127.92 miles, 22 hours awake, and a headwind pretty much all the way back. Average rolling speed of 9.2 over 14 hours of riding, but much slower when you take into account total time out, breaks, etc.

When I got back, my knees ached, and I was obviously tired, but not at the point of collapse - I managed some food and time online before going to bed. There were points on the way back when I was crawling along, but I gave myself a stiff talking too, and a chance encounter with a friend who provided tea in Pocklington meant I upped the pace to about 10mph for the last 20 miles. 

Night riding was fantastic. I kept having moments when I realised I was experiencing something from Andy's book - the lights bobbing about in front and behind was the most magical. Especially when the retroreflective patches on the leggings of the folk behind were reflecting my rear lights as we climbed a long shallow hill - soft red blobs bobbing up and down silently in my mirrors. And looking east and seeing that first light....

Brilliant. Roll on the next (in October!)


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## Nuncio (20 Sep 2010)

porkypete said:


> Mrs PP has now read some of the Arrivée write-ups for 2009 and plans to join the fun.



One of those was mine. (ie one of the articles, not necessary one that Mrs PP read)


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## ianrauk (20 Sep 2010)

Arch said:


> Would she like her own pin in the map, or share yours?
> 
> Well, I made another step this weekend. The YACF night ride to Scarborough, and me riding back, gave me all my targets for the summer in one fell swoop: a night ride, an imperial century on the trike, and a 200km for the first time ever. 127.92 miles, 22 hours awake, and a headwind pretty much all the way back. Average rolling speed of 9.2 over 14 hours of riding, but much slower when you take into account total time out, breaks, etc.
> 
> ...



Well done Arch..


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## iZaP (20 Sep 2010)

Realistically, how fit would you have to be to cycle this event?


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## ianrauk (20 Sep 2010)

iZaP said:


> Realistically, how fit would you have to be to cycle this event?



Realistically,
Do you think you can Cycle 175-200 miles a day for 4-5 days with minimal sleep?

At the moment even I would find it tough. I am 44 and cycle on average 800-1000 miles a month.
I can cycle 150 miles a day no problem at the moment, but 150 miles a day for 5 days in a row, well that's a different matter
So I have 3 years to build up for it. It's not a trip to take lightly imho.


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## iZaP (20 Sep 2010)

ianrauk said:


> Realistically,
> Do you think you can Cycle 175-200 miles a day for 4-5 days with minimal sleep?
> 
> At the moment even I would find it tough. I am 44 and cycle on average 800-1000 miles a month.
> ...



I'm 18 atm, so ill be 21 by 2013, I just started cycling in june, got some sort of a road bike this month, hopefully ill have a proper apparatus before the LEL 

I have three years to train up


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## ianrauk (20 Sep 2010)

iZaP said:


> I'm 18 atm, so ill be 21 by 2013, I just started cycling in june, got some sort of a road bike this month, hopefully ill have a proper apparatus before the LEL
> 
> I have three years to train up





18? 21? pah, bleedin' youngsters, you'll p*ss it.
In all seriousness. it's a tough challenge that you will need to be prepared for. Mentally, physically and mechanically.
I suggest you purchase *THIS* and have a read. It will give a you a great idea of what the ride entails.


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## iZaP (20 Sep 2010)

ianrauk said:


> 18? 21? pah, bleedin' youngsters, you'll p*ss it.
> In all seriousness. it's a tough challenge that you will need to be prepared for. Mentally, physically and mechanically.
> I suggest you purchase *THIS* and have a read. It will give a you a great idea of what the ride entails.





Haha






I understand i'll need to be fully prepared for this sort of distance. 

The book is about recumbent, is it still relevant? as it is "Barring Mechanicals"


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## ianrauk (20 Sep 2010)

iZaP said:


> Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very relevant. It's what inspired this whole thread.


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## Greenbank (24 Sep 2010)

ianrauk said:


> At the moment even I would find it tough. I am 44 and cycle on average 800-1000 miles a month.
> I can cycle 150 miles a day no problem at the moment, but 150 miles a day for 5 days in a row, well that's a different matter
> So I have 3 years to build up for it. It's not a trip to take lightly imho.



I did LEL on about half that.

Monthly mileages in 2009:-

Jan: 370
Feb: 335
Mar: 811 (OK, so I did London to Edinburgh one way in 3 days)
Apr: 361
May: 530
Jun: 560
Jul: 1230 (included the 875 miles of LEL itself)

It didn't go back in the 2008 at all. I did 0 miles in November 2008 and 45 miles in December 2008 as I was off travelling in Chile and Argentina for those 2 months.

I went from not having ridden a bike for 2 months to finishing LEL, all in just 7 months.


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## vorsprung (24 Sep 2010)

I started riding audax in 2004. The first year I did 2x200 and 3x300. In 2005 I did 200,300,400,2x600 and LEL

2003 I was aged 38 and riding 2 miles to the station and back most days


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## zigzag (24 Sep 2010)

iZaP said:


> Realistically, how fit would you have to be to cycle this event?



if you want to ride lel and enjoy it (i.e. not have aches and pains, have enough time for proper sleep), you need to be quite* fit. three years is plenty of time to prepare, one year would be enough if you are "normally fit" (not too overweight and in good health). for unprepared it is a very hard ride, as it was in my case.. 

i've learnt a lesson and prepared for this year's big ride 1001Miglia and didn't have any problems and enjoyed it thoroughly. it always helps to be faster as you can be more flexible with your time.

*to ride 200km in <8hrs or ~500km in 24hrs in flatish terrain


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## yello (24 Sep 2010)

zigzag said:


> ride 200km in <8hrs



In all seriousness, I doubt I could do that. Not without favourable conditions.


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## ianrauk (24 Sep 2010)

yello said:


> In all seriousness, I doubt I could do that. Not without favourable conditions.



+1


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## Greenbank (24 Sep 2010)

Nor me. My fastest 200 is 10h50 elapsed (Muswell Hills 200).

Fastest average speed (moving) on a 200 was 25.53kph. That would get me a 200 in under 8 hours but only if I stopped for less than 10 minutes during the entire ride (very unlikely).

25kph moving average for a flat 200, all the way down to 19kph for a very hilly ride (5500m climbing in 300km).

I had a moving average of almost bang on 20kph on LEL, so that means I was stopped for 46 hours.


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## zigzag (24 Sep 2010)

well, those are the distances and times from my experience. i was much slower last year when i did lel, therefore it was a struggle for me. this year i can just about do those distances in the times i mentioned above and 1000 mile ride a month ago was an absolute joy and not a big challenge.

it's hard to measure by words "how fit shoud someone be", so i've thrown in some numbers, that in my opinion can measure cycling fitness. one can be considerably slower and still complete lel, but needs to be very organised how he spends the time off the bike. there's also higher chance of tendon and ligament injuries if one pushes too hard for himself.


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## Arch (25 Sep 2010)

iZaP said:


> Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh yes. Do read it...

If you're skint, it's all still on the forum here - the book text is mostly in the thread - I'm sure Andy won't mind me letting you know...

https://www.cyclechat.net/

But if you have a few quid to spare, it's a cracking read. Recumbent or not, it's all about getting yourself on, mile after mile, hour after hour, rain after rain....


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## mcshroom (25 Sep 2010)

I'll add my support to Andy's book as well. A good read, and you really get a feel for what it was like, and how it felt.

As for feeling. I've just finished my first ever century 






. I'm knackered and I've just reminded myself that LEL is 8 and a bit centuries all back to back


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## Arch (25 Sep 2010)

mcshroom said:


> I'll add my support to Andy's book as well. A good read, and you really get a feel for what it was like, and how it felt.
> 
> As for feeling. I've just finished my first ever century
> 
> ...



Oh, well done!     

It's a great feeling isn't it? I remember my very first (of 2 so far!), I hurt all over (it was on an upright), and could barely get up the stairs to the flat, and I just lay on the bed in a heap. But I was soooooooo proud!

Did my second last weekend, thanks to the YACF ride to Scarborough. Managed 127, so I'm hoping the bare 100 isn't such a bit mental challenge now.


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## mcshroom (25 Sep 2010)

I'm hoping so. I know that after I did my first 100km the second was a lot easier as I could keep reminding myself that I had ridden that distance before so there was no reason why I couldn't this time.

Looking back at your YACF ride, congratulations on your first 200k and the trike century. I've just noticed I didn't comment on it on here before



(in my defence I did on YACF).


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## mcshroom (25 Sep 2010)

Note to Admin - this is post #394!

Do we warrent a sub-forum now?


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## Panoramix (25 Sep 2010)

zigzag said:


> if you want to ride lel and enjoy it (i.e. not have aches and pains, have enough time for proper sleep), you need to be quite* fit. three years is plenty of time to prepare, one year would be enough if you are "normally fit" (not too overweight and in good health). for unprepared it is a very hard ride, as it was in my case..
> 
> i've learnt a lesson and prepared for this year's big ride 1001Miglia and didn't have any problems and enjoyed it thoroughly. it always helps to be faster as you can be more flexible with your time.
> 
> *to ride 200km in <8hrs or ~500km in 24hrs in flatish terrain



Before LEL my fastest (and unique) 200 was 10 hours and I could do a 300 in 15 hours. I think that the 300 time is the most relevant since one tend to do 300 and a bit days. I finished LEL with enough time in hand
to stop worrying about time when I was in Yorkshire on the way back.

Ride one sub 15 hours 300 and you will be fine!


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## yello (26 Sep 2010)

Panoramix said:


> I think that the 300 time is the most relevant since one tend to do 300 and a bit days.



I approached LEL as back-to-back 350s. Sadly, it didn't quite turn out like that but that's another story... and a learning experience! My own training included riding 100 or 200s on consecutive days, rather than just progressively longer weekly rides. I did that to get myself used to getting back on the bike when the muscles where feeling tired. I did ride a 300 and a 400 but only the once. And I didn't ride further than that. Maybe that was the wrong approach, I don't know, but it was the one I took.

But there's a different context to LEL, one that does not exist in any of the training you do. On LEL, riding your bike is what you are there to do. If you're not eating or sleeping then you're riding. You accept that quite naturally. It's almost an energy source in itself. You don't have to get home to feed the dog, wash the car, mow the lawn... whatever. You're riding for 4 to 5 days and _that's it_. Doing 300 to 400km in a day (when you consider that's, say, 20 hours) is really not that onerous! You just keep plugging away. Well, that's the theory anyway!


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## DrMekon (26 Sep 2010)

Well, my 1st event was the Mildenhall 300, and I got round that in 14h52m. Whilst it's nice to think I am 'fit for lel', I feel far from it, and a 400 is still intimidating. I feel I need some hilly 300s and a few hard 600s over the next couple of years as a minimum.


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## Panoramix (26 Sep 2010)

DrMekon said:


> Well, my 1st event was the Mildenhall 300, and I got round that in 14h52m. Whilst it's nice to think I am 'fit for lel', I feel far from it, and a 400 is still intimidating. I feel I need some hilly 300s and a few hard 600s over the next couple of years as a minimum.



Well yes but 400s and 600s are more about experience than fitness. You may fail a 400 or a 600 because you didn't sleep at the right time or eat properly or prepare your bike properly but I am sure you are fast enough.


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## PalmerSperry (26 Sep 2010)

mcshroom said:


> I'm hoping so. I know that after I did my first 100km the second was a lot easier as I could keep reminding myself that I had ridden that distance before so there was no reason why I couldn't this time.



Though this can work the other way too ... Speaking as someone who's 0 out of 4 when it comes to 200s.


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## yello (26 Sep 2010)

Panoramix said:


> Well yes but 400s and 600s are more about experience than fitness.



I'm inclined to agree with that. I rode a 400 in June with pretty much no 'fitness' to speak of (i.e. negligible prior training). Just a knowledge of how to do it and a determination!


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## vorsprung (30 Sep 2010)

Greenbank said:


> Nor me. My fastest 200 is 10h50 elapsed (Muswell Hills 200).



My first ever 200km was in 10h, but I don't think I've done that fast since except during other events

LEL 2005 I was on a slower bike than I use now, but conditions were good. I remember getting to Thorne ( I was on a London start ) and the cycle computer saying my moving average at that point was over 25kph

If I ever did LEL again I'd use a bike with tribars. There is a lot of pan flat stuff and not many large groups to tag along with


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## DrMekon (30 Sep 2010)

Yeah - re. a sub 8hr 200, we were second to the 200km point in 8h11m (not credit to me, I was hanging on the back of a group of club riders with carbon bikes most of that), and the guy who was 1st there (a chap call Bruce on a carbon bike) looked like he was on the far right hand side of the distribution when it comes to audax-ability (he claimed not to need to eat until 150km!). I am sure you are right about planning and experience being the issue. My plan has been to get 10000km under my belt this year (should pass it next week, much earlier than expected) and get my BMI down to 19 (currently 19.5, down from 26.5). Next year, I'd like to do an SR, but my better half is making "you're taking the piss" noises, so it may just be a couple of 200s a couple of 300s, and possibly a DIY600 with RichF and Teethgrinder if they run it again next year. Wouldn't want to go overdrawn at the Bank of Marital Goodwill too early. We'll see what shape that leaves me in for 2012.


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## yello (30 Sep 2010)

Greenbank said:


> Nor me. My fastest 200 is 10h50 elapsed (Muswell Hills 200)



As I rode the same route in 2006, out of interest I looked up my time. It was 10h 37 ride time for a total of 225km as I rode to and from the start. The elapsed time, I didn't keep since I road with the organiser on the pre-ride recce and we were pretty stop-start all day. I would imagine it was close to 12 hours.


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## redjedi (30 Sep 2010)

It's all getting very serious in here. 200s/400s/.....600s 

I struggled to do the 30 miles to Ipswich station after the Dun Run.

Right, time to get serious.....I'm going to take the long way home tonight and increase my 7 mile commute to 10 miles 



But I was quite pleased to have done 110 miles on the friday night ride and woke up the next day not feeling any aches at all, which is a huge improvement on my first 100 miles.


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## zigzag (30 Sep 2010)

DrMekon said:


> My plan has been to get 10000km under my belt this year (should pass it next week, much earlier than expected) and get my BMI down to 19 (currently 19.5, down from 26.5).




that's very good effort, drmekon! regarding weight - my bmi is 21.5 and people keep telling me i'm too skinny, i can't imagine how i would look with bmi 19. like a toothpick . but maybe you are of different build if you still think you are too heavy.


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## DrMekon (30 Sep 2010)

zigzag said:


> that's very good effort, drmekon! regarding weight - my bmi is 21.5 and people keep telling me i'm too skinny, i can't imagine how i would look with bmi 19. like a toothpick . but maybe you are of different build if you still think you are too heavy.



The last 8kg has been done more for interest than for any performance reasons. My job is to develop interventions for trials in public health. I thought I'd see if I could come up with something that'd work for weight loss without making me grumpy. So far, it's working. We may even see if we can work it up into a protocol for a grant app for a future trial.

But yeah, the "are you ill?" questions started when my BMI went below 20.


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## DrMekon (5 Oct 2010)

Passed 10,000km on the bike for the year this morning, which was meant to be my big hairy audacious goal for the year. Unfortunately, bikejournal competitiveness has lead me to peak a bit early. Now 13,000km looks eminently doable.


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## ianrauk (5 Oct 2010)

Nice one DrMekon.. stirling work


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## DrMekon (7 Oct 2010)

Cheers. Felt a bit bereft without something definite to aim for, so I am going to try to stick to 1000km+ months for the rest of the year, not withstanding the need to take my bike back to the shop for a replacement frame where the rack eyelet came off. Also, I've got my entries in for the End of Hibernation 200 and the Still Seething 600 for next year, so plenty to look forward to.

I figured the promise of lots of TLC, a flat route, and somewhere to crash after made the Seething 600 a good choice, given I'll not have done a 400 by that point.


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## frank9755 (7 Oct 2010)

DrMekon said:


> Passed 10,000km on the bike for the year this morning, which was meant to be my big hairy audacious goal for the year. Unfortunately, bikejournal competitiveness has lead me to peak a bit early. Now 13,000km looks eminently doable.



Reading this I thought I'd see how many kms I'd done this year. Just done some quick sums and I am at just over 12,500km in 2010. 
That's a higher figure than normal as I had a few months of work over the summer and did three long tours. 

The rate will tail off a bit now as I am back to work (although commuting gives me 100 miles a week which helps!), but I'm aiming to do a couple of audaxes a month - including the odd back-to-back weekend with maybe a 200km and a 100km combined. 

Having done that amount of cycling my improvements in fitness and speed since the start of the year have been marked. I've lost 10kg in weight which has helped (although trousers don't fit very well now!). I did my first time trial in March and took 1h 18min 45 sec to do 25 miles. I've managed to get that down steadily over the summer and last Sunday I did 1:02:28.

This Saturday I've got a 200km audax and will see what sort of time is now comfortable for that distance.

Frank


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## redjedi (7 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Reading this I thought I'd see how many kms I'd done this year. Just done some quick sums and I am at just over 12,500km in 2010.
> That's a higher figure than normal as I had a few months of work over the summer and did three long tours.
> 
> The rate will tail off a bit now as I am back to work (although commuting gives me 100 miles a week which helps!), but I'm aiming to do a couple of audaxes a month - including the odd back-to-back weekend with maybe a 200km and a 100km combined.
> ...



Not bad Frank  That would explain why I struggled to keep pace with you back from Richmond Park on Saturday. 

Luckily I had the crafty plan of getting a puncture to help save face


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## zigzag (7 Oct 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Having done that amount of cycling my improvements in fitness and speed since the start of the year have been marked. I've lost 10kg in weight which has helped (although trousers don't fit very well now!). I did my first time trial in March and took 1h 18min 45 sec to do 25 miles. I've managed to get that down steadily over the summer and last Sunday I did 1:02:28.



that's a massive improvement Frank! have you eaten any spanish meat lately? did you use regular race bike or aero/tt bike? keep up training over the winter and you'll be flying next year!


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## frank9755 (13 Oct 2010)

Well I did my 200km audax in 5 minutes under the 10 hours! 

I guess that was the target. I had hoped I would be a bit quicker than that but it did take time. I did have a couple of significant mechanical stops and also three leisurely cafe stops. The computer said it was 8 hours of riding time which feels about right.

I was most pleased that I felt pretty good at the end (compared to my first one in June on a less hilly course when I was a wreck with 40 miles to go!). I could have carried on further, and have been riding every day since. 

Next time I might cut back the stops and see if I can get round a bit quicker. I think it does depend on having people to ride with, though,after the group breaks up 20 or 30km in. I was lucky to find someone who was doing pretty much my pace and we rode together virtually all the way. I think that is worth perhaps 15 minutes in time. 


No Contador burgers, Zig! My time trials were on my time trial bike with aerobars, etc. At the start of the season I had been using what is now my commuting bike for both TTs and audax - but now have expanded the bike stable!


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## SteelRex (19 Oct 2010)

This past weekend I completed my third double century for the season qualifying for the California Triple Crown for my second year. The Solvang Autumn Double Century was not the most challenging course with something under 10,000 feet of ascent over about 201 miles. I was pleased with my time of 15 hours, 45 minutes (14 hours in the saddle), but I’m still spending too much time at the control points (rest stops). Double centuries here in the states are a little like a brevet, but with more support along the way (i.e. less emphasis on self sufficiency). Next season, my goal is to complete a brevet series up to 600k. By 2012, I’ll look to qualify and complete my first 1200k.


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## ianrauk (28 Oct 2010)

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned. But Audax UK have put the following up on the site

*If you are interested in riding the 2013 edition of LEL then please provide us with your email address and we will contact you nearer the time.​*
*Email: info@londonedinburghlondon.com​*


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## Arch (28 Oct 2010)

I think I saw that and mentioned it a while back. But good to have a reminder. I'm sure I emailed them to get on the list.


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## SteelRex (28 Oct 2010)

When I submitted my e-mail address (several weeks ago) I don’t recall getting any sort of confirmation.


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## Arch (28 Oct 2010)

SteelRex said:


> When I submitted my e-mail address (several weeks ago) I don’t recall getting any sort of confirmation.



No, I don't think I did either. Presumably they just don't confirm...

I'll double check I sent the email, and that I didn't get a reply.


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## ianrauk (28 Oct 2010)

It does say they will contact you nearer the time....so I suppose that will be 2013 we should get a reply back


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## willm (29 Oct 2010)

I eamiled them and didn't get a response. Glad I didn't get special treatment.


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## yello (29 Oct 2010)

Well if it's anything like last time , the contact via email will be very sporadic. I think they/she processed emails in batches... every 2nd Sunday evening or something equally as bizarre!

But I think it safe to say that some changes have been/will be made for this time re communication (amongst other things) so finger's crossed that every knows what the score is in plenty of time. And there is still oodles of time so fret not.


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## steveindenmark (5 Nov 2010)

Well I have added my name to Sue`s list so I had better get a bike and start practicing.

Having never ridden any distance at all I am pleased to say that I am following in the footsteps of Andy Allsop, except I will remember my shoes for the start.

I am depending on sheer bloody mindedness to get me through this.

Steve


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## PalmerSperry (5 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> Well I have added my name to Sue`s list so I had better get a bike and start practicing.



I've got no real idea what bike I'll be doing LEL on, other than that it won't be either of the racebike or recumbent I've got at the moment!



steveindenmark said:


> Having never ridden any distance at all I am pleased to say that I am following in the footsteps of Andy Allsop, except I will remember my shoes for the start.



Saying that probably just means you'll forget something else instead!  At a 200 I attempted earlier this year, I had a last minute realisation that my mobile had no credit on it so I quickly did an online credit of €20 ... and then left my mobile on the table next to my computer!


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## DrMekon (5 Nov 2010)

Anyone else looking beyond next season yet? I am pretty sure I'll do a SR, and certain I'll do a 200, 300 and 600. However, looking ahead to 2012, I am thinking about doing a 1000; probably the permed Hailsham one that's being discussed on YACF ATM, Looking at strategies, I am seeing talk of 470km then 270km then 260km. This numbers look scary from back here, I have to say.


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## hulver (15 Dec 2010)

Just seen this on Twitter. Ride a leg of the LEL route, and get entry to a prize draw for free entry to LEL.

http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/leldiy.html

*As an incentive, there’s a prize of a free entry to LEL2013, plus a free jersey, to be chosen from all entrants who submit a feedback form from their ride of DIY - way to LEL.*


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## velovoice (22 Dec 2010)

Hi everybody

It's been nice to follow what everybody's been up to. Sorry for the long time silence from me - and no miles clocked on MyCyclingLog. I had knee surgery in October - how badly timed was that? I'd just bought a new Surly Cross Check and then couldn't ride it!  Two forlorn months spent just admiring it as it stood in the hallway. 

Physio has been intense and I'm finally seeing some benefit from having the procedure done. Was cleared for a little spin on the Saturday before last - had a lovely pootle round town of about 4 miles but then managed to pull off a stupid little fall about 1 mile from home, which put the state of my knee rehab back by about 3 weeks. Ouch!  It recovered suprisingly quickly though, and I'm planning my first proper outing on Christmas day. Yay! 

Hoping normal commuting can re-commence in January and then I'll start clocking up some miles.  

In the meantime, best wishes to you all for the holidays - be safe out there!


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## redjedi (22 Dec 2010)

RebeccaOlds said:


> Hi everybody
> 
> It's been nice to follow what everybody's been up to. Sorry for the long time silence from me - and no miles clocked on MyCyclingLog. I had knee surgery in October - how badly timed was that? I'd just bought a new Surly Cross Check and then couldn't ride it!  Two forlorn months spent just admiring it as it stood in the hallway.
> 
> ...



GWS Rebecca.

Looks like there may be a London ride on Tuesday if we get the weather that's forecast. Just the thing for a recovering knee


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## vorsprung (6 Jan 2011)

It's PBP year.

Yeah, I know a lot of you aren't doing PBP. The good news is that there will be lots more 200km+ rides to enter and lots of people doing them


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## mcshroom (23 Jan 2011)

How are things going for everyone?

I've been struggling to get out too much recently because of ice. Cycling any distance on Snow Studs is just heavy and unpleasant, so I've only really been riding my shortest commute. Hopefully I will start on my longer, hillier route tomorrow.

I'm also going to enter the North-West Passage Audax on the 19th February, which should be my first Audax ride, but I'm dithering over riding the 120 or the 200.

I'm really hoping for a bit of warmer weather to roll in so that I can start getting the miles in as I don't fancy falling off on ice.


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## Arch (23 Jan 2011)

Did my first non-commute ride of the year today - only 37 miles on the Catrike, but it reminded me that I do actually enjoy this cycling lark.

Having not ridden at all for most of December, and not for fun since the end of November, it's nice to be 'back'....


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## iZaP (23 Jan 2011)

Rebuilding my muscles after a few months of absence, already done over 150miles this month, i need to do that much in a day ;-x


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## PpPete (24 Jan 2011)

Having done almost nothing since my first 200km Audax in November, I managed 50 km last Tuesday, and 85km yesterday. Next weekend's 200km Audax will be a bit of rude shock to the system, but I want to get in the habit of 200s this year, and maybe a 300 in the summer. Then an SR in 2012 won't seem quite such a stretch as it does now.


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## stevevw (27 Jan 2011)

I have only been doing about 110miles a week since Christmas, should be about 160miles this week. A bit worrying to think we will be doing nearly 8 times as much in just over half the time  

I have the Cheam and Morden hilly 50 at the start of march a 200 at the end of March and the C2C in 2 days at the end of April with all the climbing on the first day, nice 50 mile down hill on day 2.

I am also thinking about the Avalon Sunrise 400 in June. Any recomendations for a fairly flat 600?


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## iZaP (27 Jan 2011)

stevevw said:


> I have only been doing about 110miles a week since Christmas, should be about 160miles this week. A bit worrying to think we will be doing nearly 8 times as much in just over half the time
> 
> I have the Cheam and Morden hilly 50 at the start of march a 200 at the end of March and the C2C in 2 days at the end of April with all the climbing on the first day, nice 50 mile down hill on day 2.
> 
> I am also thinking about the Avalon Sunrise 400 in June. Any recomendations for a fairly flat 600?



I'm barely doing 100 a week :/ 

I really want to be able to do a 100 mile audax


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## mcshroom (29 Jan 2011)

I've not done 100 miles a week so far this year




.

Need to get a good ride in tomorrow. 

(edit) - By the way iZap; As you're logging on My Cycling Log, do you want to join the 'lel 2013' group as well?


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## Arch (30 Jan 2011)

Well, I'm on 193 for January. If I could manage 7 tomorrow that would be 200, but I dunno if it'll happen - I'll be walking in, and if I push the bike with me, I could ride extra on the way home. (but that does lower my average speed somewhat).

I suppose if I insist on riding the Maximus at work, that would help...


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## PpPete (31 Jan 2011)

iZaP said:


> I'm barely doing 100 a week :/
> 
> I really want to be able to do a 100 mile audax



First 200 km audax of the year completed - but you are still ahead of me though on total mileage though.


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## arallsopp (31 Jan 2011)

Afternoon all.

Just dropping by to say hello and see what's new 

I saw the sun this morning, and right now there's a blue sky overhead. This is the start of the fun stuff. Ahh....

Also, big congrats on your 200 PpPete! Good work. 

I see the 8 mycylinglog members have already ridden further than all of New Zealand, and the mighty CC Ecosse. Keep the miles coming!


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## redjedi (31 Jan 2011)

arallsopp said:


> I see the 8 mycylinglog members have already ridden further than all of New Zealand, and the mighty CC Ecosse. Keep the miles coming!



also CC Bromley. Although I find it hard to believe that Ben's only ridden 8 miles this year.


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## Mad Doug Biker (31 Jan 2011)

SteelRex said:


> I suppose that since my Scottish ancestors travelled across the Atlantic in the 1720’s, I’ll have to resort to listing my nationality as USA, although “MUTT” might be more accurate.
> 
> I was considering having some cycling shorts made up with the clan tartan as I suspect cycling in my kilt would prove uncomfortable. With a minimum order of 15 pairs, I’ll need to find some similarly minded Celts to go along with me. More on that perhaps in early 2013.


Depending on what Clan you are, I'll have to see - I am apparently part of Clan Gordon. Apparently.


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## frank9755 (31 Jan 2011)

stevevw said:


> I have only been doing about 110miles a week since Christmas, should be about 160miles this week. A bit worrying to think we will be doing nearly 8 times as much in just over half the time
> 
> I have the Cheam and Morden hilly 50 at the start of march a 200 at the end of March and the C2C in 2 days at the end of April with all the climbing on the first day, nice 50 mile down hill on day 2.
> 
> I am also thinking about the Avalon Sunrise 400 in June. Any recomendations for a fairly flat 600?



Steve,


Good to see you yesterday.

I had a look at the Avalon - looks very pretty. I need to get my diary sorted out before it gets cluttered up with work and other non-cycling things!

I think the flattest 200 is the one from Seething in Norfolk, but I heard it was already full - funnily enough. There are a good few 600s but looking down the list, not many of them seem to be in the flatter parts of the country.


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## SteelRex (1 Feb 2011)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Depending on what Clan you are, I'll have to see - I am apparently part of Clan Gordon. Apparently.




I am also of the Gordon clan. I did some cursory investigation and found a quality short with both side panels and a square panel across the top of the back that could be customized. The panels are large enough that they could be divided for perhaps as many as six different tartans in total. Minimum orders are between 6-10 pairs depending on where purchased. Let's see how much interest we can drum up by early 2013. 

Cheers


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## stevevw (2 Feb 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Steve,
> 
> 
> Good to see you yesterday.
> ...




Good to see you too Frank, as always we had a bit of a laugh at Ian's expense  

My right knee started hurting on the way home Sunday, I hope it is not the start of somthing nasty. 

I will do the Stevenage CTC Start of Summer Time 200 then the Avalon 400 in June with another couple of 2-300's in April / May which I have not yet decided on. So will be looking for a 600 for Aug/Sept time. What about perms any of them flatish?


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## vorsprung (3 Feb 2011)

stevevw said:


> Good to see you too Frank, as always we had a bit of a laugh at Ian's expense
> 
> My right knee started hurting on the way home Sunday, I hope it is not the start of somthing nasty.
> 
> I will do the Stevenage CTC Start of Summer Time 200 then the Avalon 400 in June with another couple of 2-300's in April / May which I have not yet decided on. So will be looking for a 600 for Aug/Sept time. What about perms any of them flatish?



How about the Mersey Roads 24 hour time trial, 23rd July?


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## iZaP (3 Feb 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I've not done 100 miles a week so far this year
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yeah sure, membership requested


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## frank9755 (4 Feb 2011)

vorsprung said:


> How about the Mersey Roads 24 hour time trial, 23rd July?




I'm looking at doing the 24-hour in Sussex at the end of June. Don't know much (ie anything!) about perms, I'm afraid! But presumably you could do the Norfolk one as a perm....?


Steve, hope the knee is better!


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## DrMekon (4 Mar 2011)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNuL70xHyH8&feature=player_embedded#at=143


Inspiration for anyone needing a boost. Can't wait for 2013 and for my boys to welcome me back home.


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## ianrauk (4 Mar 2011)

DrMekon said:


> http://www.youtube.c...embedded#at=143
> 
> Inspiration for anyone needing a boost. Can't wait for 2013 and for my boys to welcome me back home.



I did chuckle at the underpants on the head to keep warm moment


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## mcshroom (4 Mar 2011)

Thanks for the video DrM. After struggling home with a stinking head cold and jelly legs in the cold, that has really picked me up 

Long way to go before then though


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## rb58 (4 Mar 2011)

Okay. So, I've read the thread. And I think you're all completely mad.

All the way through I was thinking this is for the young 'uns, then I got to the post which said the average age for long distance events was 55. Which is what I'll be in 2013.	

It's a sign.

Put me on the list please.

(You need less sleep as you get older you know - that's about the only advantage I can think of)


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## mcshroom (4 Mar 2011)

We've snared another one





Welcome on board!





Just remember you have to be crazy in here or you'll go nuts


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## ianrauk (4 Mar 2011)

rb58 said:


> Okay. So, I've read the thread. And I think you're all completely mad.
> 
> All the way through I was thinking this is for the young 'uns, then I got to the post which said the average age for long distance events was 55. *Which is what I'll be in 2013.	*
> 
> ...



Blimey Ross, would never have guessed (you old git



)


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## rb58 (4 Mar 2011)

And I guess the training will mean help me lose a bit of weight, giving me a fighting chance of keeping up with you Ian


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## iZaP (4 Mar 2011)

I hope I won't be the only 21-year old there then. That's how old i'll be in 2013!


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## mcshroom (5 Mar 2011)

I didn't realise you were that young iZaP






I don't think you'll be the youngest at 21 though. This was the youngest rider in 2009 and he was 18: -







I'll be 30 if when I get to the start line


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## iZaP (5 Mar 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I didn't realise you were that young iZaP






Well hey...We all have to start somewhere, I don't feel like waiting another twenty years to start long distance cycling >_>


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## frank9755 (5 Mar 2011)

iZaP said:


> Well hey...We all have to start somewhere, I don't feel like waiting another twenty years to start long distance cycling >_>



Good attitude - you know you're going to do it eventually so why wait!




You can even get to do it while you are at your physical peak rather than on the decline curve like most of us!


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## zigzag (6 Mar 2011)

DrMekon said:


> http://www.youtube.c...embedded#at=143
> 
> Inspiration for anyone needing a boost. Can't wait for 2013 and for my boys to welcome me back home.



very inspirational indeed. i've watched it only now and realised it's the same Pete who i rode most of willy warmer audax with and also met him on hilly50 yesterday! very nice chap, going to do pbp this year as well. there's something in those long rides that makes you want to do them again and again (isn't it?..).


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## Arch (6 Mar 2011)

rb58 said:


> Okay. So, I've read the thread. And I think you're all completely mad.
> 
> All the way through I was thinking this is for the young 'uns, then I got to the post which said the average age for long distance events was 55. Which is what I'll be in 2013.
> 
> ...



I'll pop you on the map when I'm back home. We are mad, aren't we.

I realised this when I saw the caption on that video that said something like "500km to go _to the halfway point_"


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## frank9755 (6 Mar 2011)

Yes, good film - enjoyed watching that! Gave you a real flavour in just a few minutes.


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## the snail (24 Mar 2011)

Count me in, seems like a good way to celebrate my 50th year  Arch, please add me to the map of loonies (SN15). Looks like I'm the first from the Southwest!


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## mcshroom (26 Mar 2011)

Welcome aboard!





I've just got my first good milage of the year in 

Carlisle to Glasgow up NCN7 through Galloway Forest Park. Should be 235 miles over 4 days by the time I make it to home (I'm currently sat on the train)

Worrying that I'll have to do that distance each day every day on LEL


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## AudaxUK (27 Mar 2011)

Hello! Danial here, Audax UK's press secretary and part of the London Edinburgh London organising team. I'm really happy to see so many riders gearing up for LEL in 2013. It's a brilliant route, tough in parts but very beautiful. You'll be very well looked after throughout, all you have to do is keep pedalling!

I'm here if you've any questions. Either post them here or send me a message. I juggle LEL with work, Audax UK stuff and family life, so bear with me if I don't get back to you straight away.

Cheers

Danial


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## Shaun (27 Mar 2011)

AudaxUK said:


> Hello! Danial here, Audax UK's press secretary and part of the London Edinburgh London organising team. I'm really happy to see so many riders gearing up for LEL in 2013. It's a brilliant route, tough in parts but very beautiful. You'll be very well looked after throughout, all you have to do is keep pedalling!
> 
> I'm here if you've any questions. Either post them here or send me a message. I juggle LEL with work, Audax UK stuff and family life, so bear with me if I don't get back to you straight away.
> 
> ...



Excellent - Welcome Danial, great to have you on board.

If there's anything in the Audax calendar that you think might be of interest, you can add the event details to the CycleChat rides calendar. (if you need a hand, just PM me and I'll walk you through it.)

Cheers,
Shaun


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## mcshroom (27 Mar 2011)

Shaun, it would probably be easier to link to the Audax Calendar considering the number of events and amount of information contained

Link here


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## Arch (28 Mar 2011)

the snail said:


> Count me in, seems like a good way to celebrate my 50th year  Arch, please add me to the map of loonies (SN15). Looks like I'm the first from the Southwest!



You're in!


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## Tynan (28 Mar 2011)

still over two years to go?

howsabout everyone that says they're going to do it stumps up a tenner to be shared by those that actually finish?

perhaps those that start can get there tenner back?

I'm still very undecided, it's such a long way, my recent 200km was rather a strain


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## Glover Fan (29 Mar 2011)

I only did my first audax a month ago (100km) and got another this weekend. I want to do a 200km before the summer is out. But this is really interesting me and should keep my going over this winter and then for the qualifiers next year.

I wouldn't say 100% i'm in, but I am registering my interest, postcode is BS32.


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## the snail (29 Mar 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> I only did my first audax a month ago (100km) and got another this weekend. I want to do a 200km before the summer is out. But this is really interesting me and should keep my going over this winter and then for the qualifiers next year.
> 
> I wouldn't say 100% i'm in, but I am registering my interest, postcode is BS32.



I'm at a similar stage, so far I've done four 100s (one was only supposed to be 75 ), hoping to get at least one 200 done this year. 200k still seems like a very long ride at the moment, but I've got 125, 150 and 175k club audaxes over the next 3 months, so hopefully I'll be up for 200 by summer. I think it's gonna hurt though. Is it necessary to do qualifying rides? My plan such as it is, is to do an SR next year, plus as many rides as possible, maybe some rides on consecutive days, but I thought the qualifiers were only for the PBP?
Were you on the Bristol Bash, Glover Fan? I really enjoyed it, and with the rides there and back I managed 200k over 3 days, which is a record for me! My legs only hurt a bit now, which is encouraging! The more I think about it, the more insane/impossible LEL seems, so probably best not to think about it too much eh?


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## Arch (29 Mar 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> I only did my first audax a month ago (100km) and got another this weekend. I want to do a 200km before the summer is out. But this is really interesting me and should keep my going over this winter and then for the qualifiers next year.
> 
> I wouldn't say 100% i'm in, but I am registering my interest, postcode is BS32.



Interest registered!


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## PalmerSperry (29 Mar 2011)

Arch said:


> Interest registered!



Arch is making a list, and our names are all on it _and_ she knows where we live!


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## fungus (30 Mar 2011)

the snail said:


> I'm at a similar stage, so far I've done four 100s (one was only supposed to be 75 ), hoping to get at least one 200 done this year. 200k still seems like a very long ride at the moment, but I've got 125, 150 and 175k club audaxes over the next 3 months, so hopefully I'll be up for 200 by summer. I think it's gonna hurt though. Is it necessary to do qualifying rides? My plan such as it is, is to do an SR next year, plus as many rides as possible, maybe some rides on consecutive days, but I thought the qualifiers were only for the PBP?
> Were you on the Bristol Bash, Glover Fan? I really enjoyed it, and with the rides there and back I managed 200k over 3 days, which is a record for me! My legs only hurt a bit now, which is encouraging! The more I think about it, the more insane/impossible LEL seems, so probably best not to think about it too much eh?




No qualifying rides are required to ride LEL (at least there wasn't in 2009). If you can get an SR series in next year keep ticking over through the winter & another SR in 2013 before LEL you'll be fine. These are the rides I did last year up to & including my End2End 1400k as you can see the avg speeds are not going to set the world alight. I had no problems at all on the 1400 & my mate didn't do any 200k rides just 100k 300k & 400k & also had no problems. When I say no problems (my arse hurt, my achilles were starting to get sore & I lost the feeling in my left middle toe for about a month




)

Good luck & I'll see you at the start.


Date: Distance: Time: Avg speed: Event:


06/02/2010	77.07 miles (100k) 5.31.17	14 mph Sunrise express 
13/03/2010	66.81 miles (100k) 4.38.29	14.3 mph Three fields (Alfreton)
27/03/2010	65.29 miles (100k) 5.32.09	11.7 mph Long mynd 2000 (2 AAA)
04/04/2010	66.77 miles (100k) 5.09.08	12.9 mph Lincoln imp
06/04/2010	135 miles (200k) 9.53.0 13.6 mph Two battles permanent
17/04/2010	127.1 miles (200k) 9.08.37	13.9 mph Roses to wrags (Alfreton)
18/04/2010	73.79 miles (100k) 5.28.44	13.4 mph Staffordshie lanes 
01/05/2010	68.46 miles (100k) 4.49.44	14.2 mph Lumpy scrumpy (1.75 AAA)
08/05/2010	187.66 miles (300k) 13.29.26	13.9 mph Everybody rides to Skeggy (Alfreton)
23/05/2010	67.06 miles (100k) 5.08.38	13 mph Hoarwithy 100
30/05/2010	252.55 miles (400k) 18.54.35	13.3 mph West & midlands 400
05/06/2010	63.22 miles (100k) 4.26.11	14.3 mph Tramway 
10/06/2010	133.91 miles (200k) 8.38.56	15.4 mph Two battles permanent
20/06/2010	137.47 miles (200k) 10.24.40	13.2 mph Cotswold expedition audax
28/06/2010	891.04 miles (1400k) 109.57 13.3 mph Lands End - John O'Groats

Edit: I am considering doing LELLL next year, that's Lincoln - Edinburgh - Lincoln - London - Lincoln using the LEL perm route if anyone is interested in joining me


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## AudaxUK (30 Mar 2011)

There'll be no qualifier for LEL in 2013 either, you'll be pleased to hear.


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## DrMekon (8 Apr 2011)

Things going okay at the mo´. Got around the Cambridge 200 in under 8 1/2 hours by trying to stay with some very quick guys. Utterly out of my depth at a couple of points, but came home fourth. Road with Zigzag of the parish for all but the last section. He was first home, and may have scraped in under 8hs if my memory serves me correctly. 

Passed 4000km for the YTD this week. Got the Cambridge 300 at the end of the month, and the Seething 600 in June. Still not negotiated a pass to turn the Dunwich Dynamo into an ECE´d 400, but that´s the plan.

Keep finding myself looking at Surly Pacers, Genesis Equilibriums and Soma Smoothie ES. Really would like something quicker than my tourer. I guess that´s what happens when you look at the back end of a bike with a $10000 frameset for 200km. The guy ahead of me is on a Stork Aero2 with the D2 groupset. Awesome.


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## deckertim (15 Apr 2011)

Did my first 300 last weekend; The Invicta 300km. I really enjoyed the ride and although my body was starting to pack up towards the end, I have caught the bug! Just registered today.


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## PpPete (16 Apr 2011)

I've a done a few 100s since I started last year and 3 x 200s so far.... two in winter, one scorcher (Dorset Coast) and hunting around for a suitable 300 now. Certainly be aiming for an SR next year.

But the crucial step..... OH is out on her first 100k as this very minute. She'll be able to crank up the distances quicker than me, and we are hoping to do LEL together.


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## the snail (16 Apr 2011)

DrMekon said:


> that´s what happens when you look at the back end of a bike with a $10000 frameset for 200km. The guy ahead of me is on a Stork Aero2 with the D2 groupset. Awesome.



All that money, and he's not very far in front of you though is he?


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## zigzag (17 Apr 2011)

the snail said:


> All that money, and he's not very far in front of you though is he?



he is a strong rider/racer and pbp finisher (in good time), he wasn't trying hard on that ride, just testing the bike setup for his future time trials. otherwise no way i would be able to keep up on my heavy hybrid with marathon+ tyres!


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## PpPete (27 Apr 2011)

Entered the Seething 300, a nice flat one as a first step up from 200s, although in fact I did do a 300 km round trip to and from the Bognor FNRttC - but with all the stops it would have been outside AUK time limits even if I'd entered it as a DIY.

Overall mileage is well ahead of last year, and average speed is creeping up too, which is nice, but I still get dropped on every hill.


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## themightyw (27 Apr 2011)

I'm still following this thread and interested. Not certain yet but don't count me out


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## mcshroom (27 Apr 2011)

themightyw said:


> I'm still following this thread and interested. Not certain yet but don't count me out



Gwan Gwan! You know you want to 

I'm having another go at entering a 200k in a fortnight, having had my first one snowed off


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## DrMekon (28 Apr 2011)

Cambridge 300 on Saturday. I've been reading too many Jan Heine & Kent Peterson articles; I suspect I am going to try something stupid.


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## PpPete (28 Apr 2011)

I have a couple of question about times, if anyone has any answers at this early stage....

Is the "official" distance 1400 km (with, presumably, 116 hours 40 minute time limit) or
1358 km as per the route sheet on the website (and 113 hours 10 minutes time limit) ?

What start times will be available? and will the later start times have the full time allowance available before the finish "closes"

Probably too early for definitive answers .... but as I start to head into 300km per day territory, it would be good to start thinking about best start times, and consequently where we might get first 'kip'.

I've just e-mailed John Hamilton about doing some bits as DIY way to LEL so which bits I do as DIY may be influenced too.


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## the snail (28 Apr 2011)

In 2009 it was 116h I think. For those who want to start worrying/panicking now there is useful info over on yacf on 2009 event
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22139.msg396242#msg396242


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## Greenbank (28 Apr 2011)

PpPete said:


> I have a couple of question about times



No idea of start times yet. From what I heard there may just be a morning start although riders will be set off in groups (rather than launching 500+ riders off in one go).

You get the full time allowance no matter what start time you are given.

LEL 2009 had two sets of start times, 8am to 10am and 2pm to 4pm.

I started at 8.30am and got to Thorne (320km) by 2am (a bit slower than I'd wanted but didn't matter). That was fine for me to get some sleep.

Personally I wouldn't have liked to get an afternoon start but plenty of people did and survived. Many just carried on until early the next morning when they'd built up enough of a time buffer for a sleep, some went right through the first night and slept at the end of the second night.

You'll know more about how you handle riding through the night, and sleep deprivation, once you start doing 400 and 600km rides. No point planning anything until you know how/when your body needs sleep.


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## Glover Fan (28 Apr 2011)

the snail said:


> In 2009 it was 116h I think. For those who want to start worrying/panicking now there is useful info over on yacf on 2009 event
> http://yacf.co.uk/fo...96242#msg396242


Very interesting stuff!

Sounds really good, but more mammoth a task than perhaps I was thinking.

I've done the 3 peaks challenge, which I loved and found pretty easy. I actually drove 75% of the challenge and didn't sleep at all from 6am at the foot of Ben Nevis, til I drove back from Snowdon and got back to Coventry at 3pm the very next day, so I know I can deal with sleep deprivation fairly well. The 3 peaks challenge is a 26ish mile walk, obviously climbing mountains.

Is it the sleep deprivation that is the hardest part? The cycling aspect is probably quite easy?


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## yello (1 May 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> Is it the sleep deprivation that is the hardest part? The cycling aspect is probably quite easy?



In truth, I suppose the hardest part would well be unknown in advance, it depending on variable factors. For me, in 2009, I thought numb butt and getting on the bike day after day would be the hardest part - but I was wrong. It was the wind and rain in Scotland and an achilles problem. The latter reducing me to and average of around 14kph for the last 48 hours! But I finished with a little time to spare... not much though, under the hour as I recall! I felt rough though. Without that injury, I would have been in well within time.

So I believe it entirely possible to complete it without lack of sleep. It depends on how much sleep you need and how quickly you ride. It's within the reach of many to manage 5 or 6 hours sleep each 24 and still complete in time. Go for it.


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## DrMekon (5 May 2011)

DrMekon said:


> Cambridge 300 on Saturday. I've been reading too many Jan Heine & Kent Peterson articles; I suspect I am going to try something stupid.



So I did do something stupid. Here are my extended impressions for those that don't read _the other place_.

Having read too many Jan Heine and Kent Peterson accounts, I imagined I might be able to do the 300 in Cyclo Montagnards R70 pace. My reasoning was that my fastest 200km is outside R60 pace, so I knew that wasn't an option, and my wife was expecting me to be 15hrs or thereabouts from last years Mildenhall 300, which was my first calendar event. I knew from that that long stops didn't do me any favours, and last month's 8h24m 200km taught me that trying to keep up with someone else made me feel ragged, even if I was sheltered from the wind more often than not. I concluded that if I could stick to a 25kph moving average, carried my own food and ate on the go, and didn't fanny about at the controls, 14hrs was possible. I decided that I would do what it took to keep the overall average on my Garmin above 22kph when I left controls. However, that was before I saw the forecast of an easterly and realised its implications for the section between Deeping and Chatteris. Still, I loaded up my water bottles with double strength SIS Go and filled my Nelson with 8 chocolate flapjacks (1 for each section) and some freebie Zipvit goo sachets.

A late initial departure, followed by recalling my wife's injunction not to forget the bins just as I was setting off meant a fast spin down to Hauxton. The start was busy. I think I recognised Gareth at the start from his picture (pannier on the LHS?), and Bendy Bianchi arrived just in time for the start having been delayed by the closure of the M11. I also recognised Nick, the CCC TT sec who I did a leg-frying DIY with (along with JJ) last year. Terry called the Cambridge CC riders to the road for a photo op, then quickly waved us off. Nick quickly tore off the front and myself and Bendy Bianchi (Chris) decided to "chase him down". It meant we got through the level crossing before it went red, but we only stayed with him until the rise before Newton. He rapidly disappeared. Chris and I spun along at 29kph or thereabouts for this first section to the manned control at Wallington, where we unexpectedly found Terry at the green beforehand getting ready, with no sign of Nick. Apparently Terry had passed a message around but we'd missed it, and so had Nick. Terry held us there for 6 minutes, and we left as a group with a big bunch of riders who also arrived before the sticker were available. I did a few minutes on the front, seeing Nick coming the other way, before taking a wrong turn at the first opportunity, despite having Terry's track displayed on my GPS. This was a bit of a lietmotif for me.

A large bunch of us stayed together as far as the second control at Thurleigh. Terry had warned that if we were quick, it would be closed. However, they appeared to have opened early as the doors were open before the specified time. Myself, Chris, Ivan and Graham from SimonP's triclub, and a chap called Travis from Portland set off after 14 minutes, 5 minutes or so after the allowed time. The section to Earls Barton was a steady spin at 27-28kph. By this time, all thoughts of my plan to stick it out on my own at 25kph had been forgotten, and I was happy chatting to the rest of the group, who were all much more experienced cyclists than me. My GPS track is a bit of a mess in Earls Barton, so I can't see how long we stopped for, but it looks about 5 minutes; I refilled my drinks bottles and faffed with my GPS. We left the village about 10 minutes after the time allowed. I think Chris set off before the rest, and Travis, Ivan, Chris and I left together, rapidly passed by Nick.

The section from Earls Barton to Market Harborough was a bit more lumpy, and our speed varied a bit more. I really can't remember anything about this section other than a few hills, chatting to Travis about his frame (handbuilt by a friend in Portland; very pretty), and a couple of small bridges. We arrived at Market Harborough at dead on the specified time, and stopped for 20 minutes, where Chris appeared from a side street. He and Travis watched the bikes whilst we took turns to visit cafes / cash points, etc. I apparently broke a cardinal rule of Cafe Nero by helping myself to a muffin from the open counter which had openings that appeared only to be accessible to the customer. Oh well.

Chris shot off before us, and as set off on the section to Wymondham, we were joined by another rider on a Kinesis RacelightT2 (John, IIRC). As it started to get more hilly we rejoined Chris, but Travis dropped off the back a few times, and soon asked us to keep going, which was the last we saw of him. This was the part of the ride where I felt strongest, and was really happy with with the short, sharp hills and interesting scenery. The bit near Tilton on the Hill was particularly fun, and at times felt like a rollercoaster.

We arrived at The Windmill at Wymondham at about 1.30pm, so pretty much dead on the specified 25kph moving average (3 minutes late). Nick and a chap on a fixed with monster chainring appeared to be in the middle of a feast when we arrived. By this point, whilst riding I'd already consumed 5 chocolate flapjacks, 1.5 litres of energy/electrolyte goop, 4 bottles of blue powerade, a ice mocha, 2 packets of ready salted crisps and a spiced apple muffin. Despite that, I ordered a slice of coffee and walnut cake and a chocolate ice cream when I got my bottles refilled, as I can usually just throw food down my throat on an audax, and the exercise physiologist in my research group at work had suggested that eating as much as I could tolerate was the best approach. Ivan, Graham and John ordered soup, as they figured it would be the quickest item on the menu. Chris shot off quite quickly, but I figured my cake and ice cream were imminent. However, nothing happened for 20 minutes, and when we went back in, 3 of the staff were just standing around. They seemed surprised when I asked about the whereabouts of my food and immediately handed it over. We eventually got away after a total stop of 35 minutes. I hear it's usually great in there.

Section 6 was over to Market Deeping. I recall it being a bit of a slog, but the GPS suggests we were ripping along at over 30kph for long sections. I really can't pull much out of my memory banks. I recall arriving at Market Deeping (GPS suggests around 3.50pm) and being greeted by the aroma of chips with lashings of salt and vinegar. I suggested stopping for some, despite having managed to get another flapjack down, but I think the other three thought I was joking. We all grabbed receipts from the cashpoint and Graham grabbed a round of bottled water, during which time Chris emerged from somewhere over my shoulder. We were away by 4pm.

Section 7 is where it started to go a bit awry for me. I think I'd slightly overdone it on the last section, trying to do my share on the front. However, this section was where I needed to do my bit, as it was very exposed and straight into the wind. I've never ridden with a club, or done any group riding outside the 3 audax I've done previously. The others had phrases that involved certain rotations, and peeling off in particular directions, and the like. I felt quite out of my depth, and started to find the pace and changes in speed really hard going. I soon found that I wasn't being left on the front for long. By this point, I'd started to feel quite sick, and breathing hard made me want to wretch. Eventually, we made the turn at Thorney, which put the wind behind us. Further respite emerged, as at this point we were offered a stop at one of the groups in-laws at Whittlesey. It turned out they were keen cyclists, and had but on a wonderful spread of tea and cakes. A 30 minute stop with several cups and 3 hot cross buns ensued. I spent some time laid out on the grass with my boots off, and eventually I felt somewhat restored. We continued on towards Chatteris, but when we hit the wind again, I began to struggle with nausea again, and soon wasn't able to stay on the back even, let alone do anything useful on the front. The rest of the group were very generous, and formed an echelon formation (new to me), and explained where I should sit. It was like being hoovered along. Despite that, somewhere along the B1093 towards Doddington, I lost the will to try to keep up, and fell back. Chris generously offered to ride with me, and the other three sped along. We quickly caught them again as they missed the turn to Dykemoor Drove. Fortunately, the bumpy road surface suited my 30mm tyres better than Chris' 23s, so I didn't feel like I was holding him up too much, and quickly felt better because of the reduced pace. At the petrol station at Chatteris we ran into Ivan and Graham again. We stopped for just 2 minutes at Chatteris to grab receipts, leaving at about 6.20pm.

The last section to Hauxton was at a decent pace due to the strong tailwind. Graham had a dinner party to get to, and the fast 3 sped on only to immediately take a wrong turn as they were out of earshot. It was several km later that they repassed us, so the detour must have been significant. The gps suggests we were doing a steady 30km on this stretch, and we soon hit Cambridge. By this point, I just wanted a cup of tea and a sit down, so we put the hammer down a bit, and I ignored the pretty bits at the backs. Despite sticking around 29kph through Cambridge, a young couple riding pretty fixies few by us. The wind got really strong as we passed hit the A10, and the last section down to Hauxton was at over 40kph in places. We arrived at the village hall with 7.57pm showing on the GPS, to find the faster riders tucking into soup. Chris and I were 5th and 6th home, as Graham had gone direct to his party.

Terry was dishing up more soup and bread as we arrived, along with the much longed for tea. I settled in. Recollections of the day followed and my wife, still on a high from the news that her 15 year wait for her beloved QPRs return to the top flight was over, told me not to hurry home. I sat around for 50 minutes, during which time Malcolm and another rider from Cambridge rolled in. Malcolm had experienced the same nausea as me, which we both found produced gagging when taking deep breaths. I had a gentle pootle back home, arriving with 335km on the clock for the day. It's only today, 2 days later, that it has really passed. I realised I'd overdone it when the bottle of Old Thumper waiting for me tasted much too strong for me. Still, the morning after I managed 3 breakfasts.

The positives I'll take away from it are
1. The 5000km I've done since January have put me in better shape than the 8200km I'd done before last year's Mildenhall 300 had put me in.
2. Compared to then, losing 1.3kg off my tyres, losing the steel expedition rack, and 3kg off my belly, along with a steady discipline of attacking the local hills in a gear equivalent to 68 has made me enjoy what limited hills Rutland offered up, despite what I had in my bag.
3. On local terrain, I can chug along at 26-27kph fairly happily.
4. I am getting better at moving through controls efficiently.
5. No recurrence of the bike fit problems I was having; a hellbent post with 40mm of layback, combined with 135mm stem solve the short top tube problem. Also, not a bit of hand, saddle or knee pain. Legs felt pumped the next day, but no other aches or pains.

The negatives are
1. I can't do long stints at 30kph+, even when my fellow riders are happy for me to take less than my fair share at the front, and when I try this makes me feel ill and sad. I need to drop off the back earlier or resist the temptation to try to stick with faster riders (stories of massive Ironman experience from more than one group member, whilst very interesting, should be taken as a warning, as should the presence of bikes that weigh less than your saddlebag).
2. Eating as much as I can combined with going harder than I was equipped to didn't work for me, and I now realise there are limits to my "eat as much as possible" strategy that has worked up to now.
3. My bike is much, much heavier than the others I rode with, partly because it is what it is (a steel tourer with clearance for 42mm tyres and mudguards, with 36h touring wheels), but partly because of what I carried. I need to think more about what I can take out of my bag.* It's really not the tool for group riding where speeding up and slowing down is part of the game.
4. Even when using the jwo/frankie named waypoint/wiggly track/invisible route method, I can still misread a gps
5. I don't know anything about group riding techniques.

Overall, a brilliant ride for me. Despite feeling grotty for a bit, I hit my target and I did more in the group than I have when I've got caught up with fast groups previously. I'm going to read the stuff on audax indigestion and look into group riding info. Ideally, I'd go on some club rides, but work/family probably precludes that. My wheels will soon have done 20000km, and there's currently about 1.3mm on the rims, so I'll probably look at getting something a bit lighter. I need to thing about what I carry in my bag. Suggestions on what to drop for my 600 at Seething would be very welcome.

Data














*My Nelson Longflap contained
A spare Schwalbe Marathon Racer
2x spare inner tubes
Some homemade tyre boots
3x tyre levers
2 spoke keys
An emergency spoke (kevlar thingy)
A multitool
A proper chain tool
several power links and a few spare links
Spare gear, brake and straddle cables
5 reusable zipties
8 chocolate flapjacks
bonk rations (several gels and an energy bar)
A waterproof jacket
Rainlegs
Some antihistamines
An asthma inhaler

It weighed 3.5kg!


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## zigzag (5 May 2011)

interesting and comprehensive write up DrMekon. i think staying at the front at whatever cost is not a good strategy. it's good to go a bit faster in the first couple of stages to build time buffer, but if you feel that you are going flat-out it's better to slow down. it will make the ride more enjoyable.

on my last 400k (brevet cymru) i was in the first group until the first steeper hill at 31km, where i saw that the effort to keep up would be too great, so slowed down and rode at my own pace, taking photos and enjoying scenery. it's fun to go fast for some time, but not at expense of overall joy and satisfaction (is it fun to look at someone's bum for most of the day, to be concentrated on the distance to someone's rear wheel?)

although i agree that "it's not about the bike", but several things combined (heavier tyres, more "stuff" in the saddlebag) do require more energy to stay with the fast group. glad you finished ok and had a great day out on a bike - that's what audax is about after all.


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## AudaxUK (8 May 2011)

I'll try and answer some of the questions I've noticed on this thread.

As this will be an international event, we will have to follow international rules. So, minimum speed will be 12kph, for a distance of 1400km. The actual route is likely to be about 1440km.

Event start will be between 07:30 and 10:15 on Sunday 28 July 2013, with riders departing in groups ever 15 minutes, subject to police agreement. There is a growing likelihood of a central London 'depart fictif', early Sunday morning, for those who want to start in town. This will not form part of the official distance, and the route will go to Loughton for the main start.


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## PpPete (15 May 2011)

LEL (preparation) starts here.....

Rode a DIY 200 over the first and last legs of the 2013 route, yesterday. 229 km to be precise (with a start slightly off the southbound route). 10h00 riding time, 10h29 total. Mostly fairly flat, but hard work in the wind. 

Going south from Debden, the hill up into Thaxted, although quite short, is surprisingly steep - and will feel steeper with 1300 km in the legs. Definitely one for the granny ring !


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## Jaristokraatti (6 Jun 2011)

Oh yes, LEL 2013 preparation is in full swing. Just cleaned the bike.


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## alans (7 Jun 2011)

I have this ride on my list of things to do.Please put me on the map, a gnats whisker to the south-east of Stoke-on-Trent.


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## DrMekon (16 Jun 2011)

Done my just done my 1st 600 - The Seething 600. Just a 400 to do for my 1st SR. Either going to turn the Dunwich Dynamo into a 400, or do the West & Midland 400. Here's my write up...
First off - massive thanks to Keith & Sue and all the helpers, especially boab, bottlemasher and chris s, whose friendly banter helped my sanity no end. Apologies for subjecting you to my blabbering. It was the best organised fun I've had in ages. I had a cracking time, despite pretty poor prep on my part - the organisation of the ride more than compensated - thank you all so much!

I drove over with only 2h50m of sleep in the bank (up until gone midnight faffing), and nursing the remnants of a chest infection. However, I had 6 weeks of caffeine abstinence banked, a packet of pro plus, a packet of ibuprofen, tubes of ibuprofen gel and bumpanthen, and 1.2kg of flapjack (not the 6kg I told boab I had when tired at the end).

I got to the start at 5am, and recognised Chris S and Marcusjb. Chris had offered to set up my luxury camp bed. I settled in with a hearty breakfast. As soon as I saw movement, I put my plan into action.

After some really helpful advice from teethgrinder via PM, I'd decided to try to keep my moving average around 25kph and my total average before the sleep stop around 22kph; ie no hanging about at controls. To make that work, I carried enough flapjack in my tri-bag to eat 200g (~1000kcal) every 100km. At the start, I shot off in the light drizzle (no need for waterproofs all ride for me), only to be rapidly overhauled by the VC167 guys. Was keeping to the plan, so didn't make any attempt to wheelsuck. At 20km, I got the first puncture of the ride, and was informed that I was lanterne rouge as I was patching it (9 minutes stopped). The plan then became "hurry up". I tried to spot YACFers on my way back up the field, but only spotted Feline. To the rest of you - you miserable buggers - I was wearing a veritable YACF team strip of buff, top (ok, obscured by my gilet, but visible), and a pin badge on my bag. I reckon I got maybe a 25% return on my hellos. I counted 9 punctures including my by the time I got to the Crowfield control, just as marcusjb was leaving. I did my business and set off after him.

Marcus misrepresents me as quick - I was pushing to keep up with him; he was tearing along. Was really nice to have some company, and we made short work of the leg to Dunwich. Caught up with the back wheel of Halloween on his yellow Roberts, but other than a quick call at some traffic lights, he was pulling away from us most of the time. At Dunwich (10:08), I ordered what was deemed to be "the gayest audax breakfast ever" - a double chocolate ice cream sunday with a tinsel streamer. I wolfed it down whilst everyone else was eating fryups and the like (17 minutes stopped), and was first to leave the control - I was back on schedule.

The leg to Thornham walks was slow and steady, and I think about 5 people passed me on the way. Boab was there with boablet and a pal, and I was promised cake at Swaffham. By this point, I'd consumed 600g of flapjack, so wasn't in need of sustenance (arrived 12.20pm, stopped for 8 minutes). I was first to leave the control again, but rapidly joined by the younger of the VC167 riders. We chatted for a bit, but he was always half a wheel ahead of me, and eventually he took off. A few more people passed me on the way to Red Lodge, and by the 180k mark, I started to feel a bit shabby; <3hrs sleep isn't good prep. I started thinking about having a sleep in a field, and my moving pace dropped to ~22kph, then I remembered - caffeine tablets. Wow! Within 10 minutes I was ripping along at 27kph. I was 4th or 5th to red lodge, and was fortunate to have a biker who wanted to chat at the cafe to whom I could blab to. I had a plate of mushroom and chips and apple pie and ice cream here, and was 3rd or 4th away (arrived 14.42, stopped 29 minutes).

The leg to Swaffham was some of the dull roads that the Mildenhall 300 was on, but was much enhanced by an epic tailwind. I didn't see anyone other than briefly chatting to a guy who was suffering with Achilles problems, which then lead to a 5km detour as I got confused what colour track I should be following on the GPS and started following the route out before I got to the control. Chris & helper were great at the control, and dispensed boab's delicious cafe. I made use of the track pump, whose gauge revealed 70 strokes of my mini pump had my back tyre at 40psi. Topping it up to 85 made the bike feel considerably more spritely (arrived 17.13, stopped 6 minutes). 

I can't remember anything much about the section back to HQ, other than briefly not being able to figure out a way through the park and ride and getting a second puncture (tube swapped). I arrived back at just after 8pm, where bottlemasher went above and beyond looking after me - much appreciated. Had the superb soup with delicious bread and a bowl of rice pud. I also patched the tube that I punctured. I stopped for 33 minutes, before heading off to Garboldisham.

The night stage was awesome - no wind, nice temperature. I was running a new Cyo and 2x Ixon IQs, so I went at a decent pace and arrived at 10.36. It took me a few minutes to work out how to get to the pavillion. Grabbed some malt loaf and crisps and a cup of tea and was back out the door 9 minutes later. Back at HQ in Seething by 00.40. I grabbed some more food and the info question from Keith, and was asleep by 01.00 with my alarm set for 4am. That banked me 3hrs sleep - chris had done a top job setting up the bed, which was unbelievably comfy.

I was back on the bike by 04.18, and promptly set off on the wrong route. I passed through Castle acre some time after 07.00, and pressed on towards Wells. At some point, a guy who I'd ridden with on the Cambridge 300 pass me, shortly followed by the VC167 guys going hammer and tongs. They shouted "breakfast at wells" as they went by. The section from HQ was really pretty - loved the fords and the hills. I know the area around Wells reasonably well from a holiday in Blakeney, so it was a treat to be back there. I arrived at 09.03, where I grabbed and espresso and a chocolate milk, and was away 15 minutes later. The VC167 guys were embarking on a substantial culinary endeavor, but the other chap had pressed on towards Wayford Bridge.

I can't say I remember too much about this section. For some reason, I'd got it in my head that I wanted to be back at HQ before 2pm so I could call my son before he started his fun run, but my brain couldn't do the maths, and kept saying I'd be back at 2.30pm. Arrived at the family control at Wayford Bridge at 11.45, where Harvey was sporting a VC167 cap - very cool, where I caught the guy I'd ridden with before. I grabbed some food, complimented the hosts, and was out on the road again 5 minutes later with that chap close behind.

I didn't much enjoy being on the front, as I kept waiting to be passed. Fortunately, I got myself in a complete pickle with the GPS at a junction by Billockby, and rode a couple of km out to Fleggburg. After gathering myself, I figured out where I'd gone wrong, and head back in the right direction. I arrived at the Reedham Ferry at 13.16 to see it chugging over with the other chap on board. I was back on the bike 6 minutes later. The final schlep over to HQ was under gathering dark clouds, and I had started to get paranoid that I would get another puncture from the flint shrapnel littering the middle of the lane. Fortunately, I escaped both unscathed, and it had just started to spit when I arrived second back at 13.52, 6 minutes after the first chap (John on a Kinesis that I rode with on my 300).

More than made up for my lack of faffing at the controls at the end, and didn't manage to get away for ages - packing up felt impossible, and it was fun chatting. The drive home was the hardest part for me. My eyes felt ruined (bottlemasher commented that they looked rough), but I was too wired to sleep. Pulled over several times, and topped up on a couple of cans of red bull.

What worked
1. sticking to a slow, steady pace & not getting sucked into a pack
2. eating flapjack on the go - no faffing about at controls
3. gilet, ss jersey, thick arm warmers
4. uber-comfy camp bed
5. carrying 2 litres of electrolyte drink on the bike

What sucked
1. tri-berry flavour Nuun tablets (had two packs, citrus was nice)
2. leg warmers, which caused by shorts to ride up and make me sore for a bit
3. Blackburn mini-pump
4. My clever dick automagic location triggered tweeting of my location - oops forgot to check that I'd registered my new phone with twitter (I hadn't), so tweets didn't come through, and virtually no 3g signal to let the emails come through. My wife was not reassured when the auto-respond to sms with a google maps link packed up at 1am and didn't work again until after lunch on Sunday.

Data






























Breakfast at Dunwich (100km)


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## Dan_h (24 Aug 2011)

Hi All, 

this is my first post here and also my commitment to have a go at LEL 2013! If you would like to add me to the map I am in Reading.

I have quite a lot to learn about this, I consistently ride over 100 miles per week commuting and have completed a 100km sportive, never done an Audax though (having a go at my first on the 10th September!).

Dan


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## the snail (24 Aug 2011)

Dan_h said:


> Hi All,
> 
> this is my first post here and also my commitment to have a go at LEL 2013! If you would like to add me to the map I am in Reading.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the forum Dan. I sent my entry off today for the Reading audax -I'm guessing that'll be the one you're doing?


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## Dan_h (25 Aug 2011)

It is the "Down the Ups" ride (at least I think that is what it is called), starting from Beech Hill. Perhaps I will see you there if you are doing the same one?


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## PpPete (25 Aug 2011)

Being thoroughly inspired by the reports from PBP.

Did my first 300 (the Rough Diamond) in fractionally under 15 hours (with a lot of help from "towing" group). 
My next ride is Tour de Didling 100k (but done as a 200 km ECE from home, so as to justify the vast amounts of food on offer at the El Supremo control)

OH will be doing "Up the Downs" as her first 200.

Planning to do more 300s and at least one 400 (the National looks a good bet for this) and hopefully one 600 next year.


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## 400bhp (27 Aug 2011)

I'm being thick here, but is L-E-L essentially a non stop cycle ride?


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## ianrauk (27 Aug 2011)

400bhp said:


> I'm being thick here, but is L-E-L essentially a non stop cycle ride?



Yes, *here*


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## 400bhp (27 Aug 2011)

Thanks.

So, 850 miles over 7 days, through a series of checkpoints.



> Sleeping and eating arrangements are provided at Controls where riders obtain much needed rest, food and drink.



What are the arrangements for sleeping and can you book hotels etc?


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## 400bhp (27 Aug 2011)

Through Eskdalemuir too


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## ianrauk (27 Aug 2011)

400bhp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So, 850 miles over 7 days, through a series of checkpoints.
> 
> ...



Put your hand in your pocket and purchase *this* inexpensive book by Cycle Chatter Arallsopp about his attempt of LEL.


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## frank9755 (27 Aug 2011)

A very good read and well worth it!

NB it's not 7 days - I think it is a bit under 5.


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## pkeenan (28 Aug 2011)

I've never done any audax rides - but am pretty serious about working up to do this one. Arch, are people still PMing you with their location? 

Is there a thread where people talk about how they train for this? (I've not yet read the 34 pages of this one - so apologies if this is it!)


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## middleagecyclist (28 Aug 2011)

Count me in please. Postcode M251GZ for the map.

Haven't read whole thread yet. Who do I contact for the book I read about? Found it.

Thanks


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## 400bhp (28 Aug 2011)

You might as well add me too. Just put a marker almost on top of DaleB in Manchester.


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## frank9755 (28 Aug 2011)

pkeenan said:


> I've never done any audax rides - but am pretty serious about working up to do this one. Arch, are people still PMing you with their location?
> 
> Is there a thread where people talk about how they train for this? (I've not yet read the 34 pages of this one - so apologies if this is it!)



The best way to train is to do long rides. If you were to do Super Randonneur series next year (200, 300, 400 and 600 km) and a perhaps a double SR in 2013, you would be very likely to get round. If you want to go a bit faster then add more riding.


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## martint235 (29 Aug 2011)

Having read about the fantastic achievements of the CCers on the PBP this year, I'm now starting to toy with the idea of entering the LEL. I might need to buy a new bike first though, not sure the one I've got is up to this!!


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## pkeenan (29 Aug 2011)

frank9755 said:


> The best way to train is to do long rides. If you were to do Super Randonneur series next year (200, 300, 400 and 600 km) and a perhaps a double SR in 2013, you would be very likely to get round. If you want to go a bit faster then add more riding.



Good advice! Thanks. I enjoy long distance cycling - so this should be right up my street. Longest I've ever done in one go is 150, though. So will have to train up to further distances.


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## middleagecyclist (31 Aug 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> Haven't read whole thread yet. Who do I contact for the book I read about? Found it.



Ordered it!


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## vorsprung (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So, 850 miles over 7 days, through a series of checkpoints.
> 
> ...



You can book hotels
There are usually very basic sleeping arrangements at the "Controls" or checkpoints. There is a control approx every 100km
When I did it in 2005, I slept on the floor in a village hall (bad), on the floor in a village hall (good), in a YHA (v good), another YHA(also v good)

The first sleep stop can be a problem as a large proportion of the entire field of 500 riders tend to end up at the same small village hall

The time limit is 116h which includes sleep

If I did it again I would probably book a hotel for night one near where I was going to get to for that night.
Also I'd probably get a few people of a similar speed to ride with


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

Thanks, so a rough idea might be as follows:

Start 5am Mon morning:
Finisg 1am Sat morning

Ride 175 miles per day-, sleep each night Mon-Thur


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## Scilly Suffolk (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> Thanks, so a rough idea might be as follows:
> 
> Start 5am Mon morning:
> Finisg 1am Sat morning
> ...



My knees have just gone on strike...


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## 400bhp (1 Sep 2011)

?


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## Scilly Suffolk (1 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> ?



When you break it down like that, into 175 miles a day... for five days on the trot, it sounds like an awful lot!


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## mcshroom (1 Sep 2011)

It would be a bit like touring, the first 5 days would be bad, then you'll nget into the swing of it


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## Nuncio (2 Sep 2011)

It would be unlikely to be a 5 am start - more likely a staggerred start from about 8am onwards, maybe with afternoon options as well. That was what was offered for 2009. The organizers seem ahead of the game this time, and have already taken measures to relieve some of the bunch points for sleeps. Last time the weather (so bad at one point that at Eskadalemuir on the return riders were strongly advised not to leave, for their own safety) and the timing (outbound and return riders meeting) meant that some of the northern controls were overwhelmed. 2013 will involve a loop in Scotland rather than an 'out-and-back'. The amount of sleep you get and your ability to meet timings for hotel bookings obviously depends on your speed. 

Last time my sleep stop times were something like 12:30am-5 (Thorne), 12-5 (Eskdalemuir), 23:00-4:30 (Alston) and 21:30-5:00 (at my Mum's between Thorne and Lincoln) - though not all that time was sleep. I'm not fast enough to have the confidence of hotel booking beyond the first night, and even then wouldn't bother. I don't seem to have a problem sleeping on a floor after 300km+ of cycling. Earplugs and eyemask help, though.


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## PpPete (2 Sep 2011)

- from upthread:



AudaxUK said:


> Event start will be between 07:30 and 10:15 on Sunday 28 July 2013, with riders departing in groups ever 15 minutes, subject to police agreement.



Also, I believe controls are at schools this time rather than village halls - so more space available.

I expect that most people will want to go as far as possible on the first day - Pocklington and Thirsk being likely targets, but if I can get a start time closer to 10:15 and subject to bagdrop location fitting in, my initial thinking is to sleep at Market Rasen and Brampton on both outward and homeward legs, which gives legs of 248km-303km-304km-303km-268km


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## DanialW (4 Sep 2011)

PpPete said:


> - from upthread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is also likely to be an optional 6am start from central London, probably Buckingham Palace, to Loughton to join the rest of the riders.

We've booked mostly secondary schools for controls, so there'll be plenty of sleeping space and bedding. However these are likely to be big halls, so you'd be well advised to pack earplugs.

If you're the sort of person who cannot sleep in a communal space, then it's best to make your own arrangements along the route. Beware though, the weather among other things can lay waste to the best of plans.


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## Greenbank (5 Sep 2011)

DanialW said:


> We've booked mostly secondary schools for controls, so there'll be plenty of sleeping space and bedding. However these are likely to be big halls, so you'd be well advised to pack earplugs.



As I suggested to you during PBP, don't leave earplugs up to the riders (unless they have special requirements). At the check-in for each sleep area have a big box of earplugs and offer them to riders before they are led to their bed/mat/floor-space.

Luckily I remembered both times to dig out my earplugs from my bag before going to sleep at Loudeac on PBP but I know a few people that were tired enough to forget, and suffered horribly as they couldn't sleep properly and were too tired to get up to go find them.


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## DanialW (5 Sep 2011)

Greenbank said:


> As I suggested to you during PBP, don't leave earplugs up to the riders (unless they have special requirements). At the check-in for each sleep area have a big box of earplugs and offer them to riders before they are led to their bed/mat/floor-space.
> 
> Luckily I remembered both times to dig out my earplugs from my bag before going to sleep at Loudeac on PBP but I know a few people that were tired enough to forget, and suffered horribly as they couldn't sleep properly and were too tired to get up to go find them.



This is a great idea. I'd clean forgotten it too. I will try to remember to do it. I was thinking about dormitories today, and the equipment you'd need.


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## mcshroom (5 Sep 2011)

DanialW said:


> This is a great idea. I'd clean forgotten it too. I will try to remember to do it. I was thinking about dormitories today, and the equipment you'd need.



I'd have thought roof, radiator, floor and you'd just about covered it


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## martint235 (5 Sep 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I'd have thought roof, radiator, floor and you'd just about covered it



Walls. Walls would be good.


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## Flying Dodo (5 Sep 2011)

848 miles in 5 days?

That's do-able. It would be OK if it was sunny and warm.

[sub](looks at LEL website)[/sub]

Oh, it goes to Scotland. It'll be raining then.


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## mcshroom (5 Sep 2011)

martint235 said:


> Walls. Walls would be good.



Now you're looking for luxuries - you'll be wanting a bed next


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## middleagecyclist (6 Sep 2011)

Haven't read whole thread yet. Who do I contact for the book I read about?

Found it.

Ordered it.

Received it.


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## PalmerSperry (6 Sep 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> Haven't read whole thread yet. Who do I contact for the book I read about?
> 
> Found it.
> 
> ...



I'm wondering if your next update will be "Read it! You're all nuts, I'm out!" or "Read it! I'm in!"???


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## middleagecyclist (6 Sep 2011)

PalmerSperry said:


> I'm wondering if your next update will be "Read it! You're all nuts, I'm out!" or "Read it! I'm in!"???


Will be able to tell you in 40 pages!


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## middleagecyclist (6 Sep 2011)

Haven't read whole thread yet. Who do I contact for the book I read about?

Found it.

Ordered it.

Received it.

Read it. Wow! Totally gripping. I'm in.


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## PpPete (6 Sep 2011)

50 CCers !


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## middleagecyclist (6 Sep 2011)

PpPete said:


> 50 CCers !



???


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## frank9755 (6 Sep 2011)

Greenbank said:


> As I suggested to you during PBP, don't leave earplugs up to the riders (unless they have special requirements). At the check-in for each sleep area have a big box of earplugs and offer them to riders before they are led to their bed/mat/floor-space.
> 
> Luckily I remembered both times to dig out my earplugs from my bag before going to sleep at Loudeac on PBP but I know a few people that were tired enough to forget, and suffered horribly as they couldn't sleep properly and were too tired to get up to go find them.



A good suggestion.


I took two pairs of earplugs on PBP just in case I mislaid one. For comfort value vs weight, earplugs must be top of the list!


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## Greenbank (6 Sep 2011)

frank9755 said:


> I took two pairs of earplugs on PBP just in case I mislaid one. For comfort value vs weight, earplugs must be top of the list!



I took 4 pairs so I could just throw them away after each use, only used three pairs as my other sleeps were just naps with my head on a table at a control.


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## middleagecyclist (7 Sep 2011)

Well, I've only gone and done it now. Announced to the World (my blog readers anyway) I am going to enter, I stress enter rather than complete, LEL 2013.

No backtracking now!


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## Greenbank (8 Sep 2011)

Simon Doughty's Long Distance Cyclists Handbook is a worthwhile read:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Distance-Cyclists-Handbook/dp/0713668326

ISBN: 0713668326
ISBN-13: 978-0713668322

For someone considering it in 2013 I'd suggest a minimum of:-

a) Start doing Audaxes now (if you're not already doing them). You can dip your toe in with a 100 if you like, everyone starts somewhere. Just start.

b) Ideally you'd work up to 200km rides within a few months and keep that going over the winter, there are some lovely winter 200s in the calendar.
Don't worry too much if you don't, but you should be happily doing a 200km ride by Feb/March 2012.

Also don't worry if you finish close to the time limit on a winter ride. I'm near the back of the field usually and will took ~13 hours for a winter 200 in the run up to LEL'09. Even at my fastest in the summer I'm still taking at least 10 hours for a 200. For the longer rides I've rarely finished with more than an hour to spare, and minimal sleep.

c) Aim for an SR (200, 300, 400, 600km) in 2012.

An SR in 2012 would be perfect, but not absolutely required, preparation. There are plenty of people that didn't do any long distance riding until 6 months before LEL 2009. However, the more prepared you are the less likely you are to fail.

What you almost might find is that night riding just isn't for you. If you're not fast enough to minimise it then you may find that rides longer than 300km just aren't for you (I know several people who've found this), but give it a few tries before deciding this.

The SR isn't just physical preparation, it's mental preparation. You need to get to know how you deal with sitting on the bike all day and, sometimes, all night. You need to know how you deal with sleep deprivation. You need to know whether you have the mental strength to keep going rather than just giving up when you reach an inevitable low point. You need to learn how to listen to your body, when it's hungry and needs food (almost always during an Audax), when you're dozy, when you're thirsty, etc. Learning how you deal with stuff never stops, so don't assume a single SR series and you've got it licked.

d) Aim for at least an SR in 2013 in the run up to LEL.

If you can go for hillier rides (with AAA points) then even better. Lots of bits of LEL are flat but the Northern section is quite hilly (but worth it for the scenary).

Obviously, the more you can do in advance the better. Each training ride or each Audax means you'll suffer a little less on LEL itself (and hopefully not 'suffer' at all).

My LEL'09 preparation wasn't ideal, I was off traveling around South America with my wife for 2 months (Nov/Dec 2008) where I didn't go near a bike in all that time. But, in the 7 months leading up to LEL'09 I got my cycling fitness back and did a fair bit of riding (3000km of Audaxes and another 4000km of commuting before LEL itself). Before that I'd done an SR in 2008 and only got as far as a 300 in 2007. In 2006 I did my first ever 200s (two of them).


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## Greenbank (8 Sep 2011)

P.S. The above is just my opinion, don't take it as fact. Many people prepare for long rides in different ways.


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## Arch (8 Sep 2011)

Right, well, I've not looked at this thread for a while. I'm up to date with adding folk to the map if they've PMed me - is anyone missing?

Apologies. I've been somewhat otherwise engaged this summer, and the longer distance cycling has dropped right off, so I stopped looking in this section. Not sure where this leaves my ambitions, but whatever, I'll try and keep the map updated properly!


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## middleagecyclist (8 Sep 2011)

Greenbank said:


> P.S. The above is just my opinion, don't take it as fact. Many people prepare for long rides in different ways.


Thanks for the in depth reply. It may be just your opinion but is sounds a damn good one. 

I was planning on a 200 km this year and building up to 600 km in 2012, while refining my bike/kit and making a decision whether or not i need to get an all out Audax machine for 600 km+. 

Do you mind if I quote you on my blog?

Cheers


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## vorsprung (8 Sep 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> I was planning on a 200 km this year and building up to 600 km in 2012



I did LEL in 2005 as my first 1000km+ event
In 2004 I did a 200 and two 300
In 2005 I did 200,300,400,600,300,600,300 then the 1400km of LEL

Incidentally, on LEL I rode for a while with someone I remember as "Hatman" and he had previously done just one 300km event


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## Greenbank (8 Sep 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> Do you mind if I quote you on my blog?



Don't mind at all.


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## PalmerSperry (8 Sep 2011)

Greenbank said:


> P.S. The above is just my opinion, don't take it as fact. Many people prepare for long rides in different ways.



Well hopefully Pickfords will delivery my bikes tomorrow, meaning at the weekend I can go for my first actual bike ride since last November!  Why the big gap? Well I moved country, twice if one regards Northern Ireland → Scotland in that way! And until I was sorted and settled in Scotland it seemed simpler, if less fun, to leave the bikes in Austria.

In the short-medium term the plan is to sell both the recumbent ('07 Bacchetta Giro 26) and the racebike and buy either a Day 01 Alfine or a Specialized Secteur. However if selling the racebike proves overly difficult then I may settle for getting a Thorn Audax Mk3 frame & forks and swapping as much as possible of the racebike over onto a more audax/light-touring -able base.

Anyway, hopefully I can work my way up to ~200km before the end of this year. Next year my plans (or should that just be "aspirations"?) include both a SR series _and_ a 7x200km LEJOG.


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## Greenbank (8 Sep 2011)

PalmerSperry said:


> 7x200km LEJOG.



Excellent. Spending multiple long days on the bike consecutively is another thing you need to get used to (again, mentally and physically).

I had just 10 hours' sleep on LEL'09, and 6 hours on PBP 2011. How will you feel after waking up after just 3 hours' sleep and realising you have another 300km+ day ahead of you (just like the last 3)...


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## PalmerSperry (8 Sep 2011)

Greenbank said:


> Excellent. Spending multiple long days on the bike consecutively is another thing you need to get used to (again, mentally and physically).



That was part of my thinking! (Other parts of it being that I have "unfinished business" with the whole LEJOG thing!) I've got a few ideas for some build up to it as well - having successfully finished a 200[1] or two, I'm thinking of doing a pair of 200s on consecutive days ...

[1] Which will be a first, since I'm currently 0 for 4!


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## mcshroom (8 Sep 2011)

Looks like a good plan Greenbank. I think I'm going to have to look into 

I've got to the 'getting round a 200 with about an hour to spare' stage now, and I'm taking myself of cycle camping round Scotland for two weeks next month which should get me used to days on the bike (not long distances, but hilly and fully laden). I've still got a _very_ long way to go though


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## frank9755 (10 Sep 2011)

I agree with Greenbank's post up on the previous page ^^^

In particular, I'd second the recommendation of Simon Doughty's book. I used the schedule that he outlined in the book to prepare for PBP this year.


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## Glover Fan (10 Sep 2011)

I've semi-definately (is that a real term?!) decided that 2013 is the best time for me to do something like this. My wife has just started an intensive postgraduate uni course and so will be tied up most weekends meaning doing 600km events and lots of training is not going to become a barrier between us.Gonna buy a dedicated audax style bike on the cycle to work scheme when it opens in November and going to plan my SR rides for next year. Already doing a 200km event every month so have a decent base fitness, the Dartmoor Devil next month will be a good hill event for me as well.


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## middleagecyclist (11 Sep 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> Thanks for the in depth reply. It may be just your opinion but is sounds a damn good one.
> 
> I was planning on a 200 km this year and building up to 600 km in 2012, while refining my bike/kit and making a decision whether or not i need to get an all out Audax machine for 600 km+.
> 
> ...


Thanks once again Greenbank. I've used your reply as the basis of a blog post which gives my thoughts on how i'm going to tackle my LEL preparation. 

Oh, and I'm doing my first 200 km at the end of September!


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## yello (11 Sep 2011)

I'd say an SR series is a darned good idea too.... and also rest. Don't be afraid to take time off to let the miles soak into your legs (thanks to Ian H for that expression!)

Also, consider consecutive days in the saddle. This is something that it seems not many people do, so maybe it is not necessary, but I personally feel worthwhile. Do a 100km one afternoon and 100 the following morning for example. Perhaps not necessary from a physical point of view but helps on the mental side if the legs are feeling a little tired. You get to learn that tired legs work so long as they're fuelled!

It's worth noting that there's a level of motivation that kicks in once you're on LEL (or any such ride for that matter). You're only there to ride and there's a buzz about it all - and this can make up for any shortfall in the physical preparation. I wouldn't plan for it but it's worth noting to ease party fears. 

To my mind, success on such events is also about a kind of what I'll call an ad-hoc planning. That is, don't go in with any concrete notion about how you're going to ride it, such plans can crumble very quickly and could leave you despondent. Better to remain flexible and prepared to rethink on the fly. Things change so be prepared to revise plans according to prevailing conditions. Obviously, experience plays a big part in this so don't expect yourself to know it all. 

If it's your first such event, you're going to learn a great deal about yourself but, sadly, nobody can advise you _exactly_ what you'll learn. So, with it being a learning experience, be prepared to make 'mistakes' and therefore cut yourself some slack in advance. There'll be things you'll do differently next time around! I know that was my experience.

LEL in 2009 was definitely a learning experience for me. Not just the ride but also in my preparation. Even though I was as well prepared as I could be. I finished in time, so it was a success in those terms, but I faired better in PBP this year (MUCH better in fact!) and I'd say that one of the reasons for that was purely the experience of LEL. 

Whatever happens, remember it's only a bike ride. Not the end of the world if you don't finish. Main thing is to try and enjoy it... well, as much as is possible anyway!


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## middleagecyclist (11 Sep 2011)

yello said:


> I'd say an SR series is a darned good idea too.... and also rest. Don't be afraid to take time off to let the miles soak into your legs (thanks to Ian H for that expression!)
> 
> Also, consider consecutive days in the saddle. This is something that it seems not many people do, so maybe it is not necessary, but I personally feel worthwhile. Do a 100km one afternoon and 100 the following morning for example. Perhaps not necessary from a physical point of view but helps on the mental side if the legs are feeling a little tired. You get to learn that tired legs work so long as they're fuelled!
> 
> ...


More great advice. Thanks for all your support *sniff, wipe away tear*. I'll remember you all in my speech!


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## Greenbank (12 Sep 2011)

There's a frequently trotted out saying in Audax UK:-

If you can ride a 100, you can ride a 200.
If you can ride a 200, you can ride a 300.
If you can ride a 300, you can ride a 400.
If you can ride a 400, you can ride a 600.
...

I agree with it, but it's the optimistic version. My pessimistic version is:-

If you can ride a 100 and not feel completely wasted at the end of it, you should be able to ride a 200.
If you can ride a 200 and not feel completely wasted at the end of it, you should be able to ride a 300.
If you can ride a 300 and not feel completely wasted at the end of it, you should be able to ride a 400.
If you can ride a 400 and not feel completely wasted at the end of it, you should be able to ride a 600.
...


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## Nuncio (12 Sep 2011)

Too pessimistic in my view, or, at least, it doesn't match my experience. 

It's not quite so bad nowadays, but it used to be the case that I'd feel completely wasted after whatever Audax I'd just completed, to the point that I couldn't imagine going another 2km let alone another 100. Each new step up was therefore a very doubtful step into the unknown. But in each instance, I smashed through the previous best comfortably, but was just about to collapse by the end. It was as if my mind was recalibrating my body's abilities to exactly what was required and no more. Therefore, I wouldn't be deterred from stepping up to a longer distance if you feel completely wasted at the end of a shorter one.

It's as much a mind game as a leg game.


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## yello (13 Sep 2011)

Nuncio said:


> It's as much a mind game as a leg game.



Agreed. And certainly on the longer distances.

It took me quite a while to 'step up' to 200km but my barrier was a mental one. Once done, I realised I'd had no reason to fear. Since then, I tackled longer distances without real concern. At the very worst, I figure I'll just have to drag myself around! Seriously, and injury aside, so long as you're fuelled correctly then a longer ride is just more of the same (assuming you have comfortable bike etc etc etc).


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## PpPete (13 Sep 2011)

Consecutive days in the saddle is definitely something I need to work on.
Moderately hilly 217km on Sunday and certainly not completely wasted after it, but 5 miles to/from a pub lunch yesterday was "not fun".



middleagecyclist said:


> Thanks once again Greenbank. I've used your reply as the basis of a blog post which gives my thoughts on how i'm going to tackle my LEL preparation.
> 
> Oh, and I'm doing my first 200 km at the end of September!



See you mention possibility of a DIY on Yad Moss....this sounds like a good plan. Do you have any dates in mind? Interested to have company on it ?


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## Slowerthanmyshadow (13 Sep 2011)

Strangely i'd only ridden 2 consecutive days a couple of times and 3 days the once this year untill the 3.5 days in August and then i rode back to the hotel and the next day another 60 km. It's amazing what you can do when you have to.


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## middleagecyclist (13 Sep 2011)

PpPete said:


> See you mention possibility of a DIY on Yad Moss....this sounds like a good plan. Do you have any dates in mind? Interested to have company on it ?


Yes I do. Yes I am.

Likely going to be looking at May 2012 onwards. Have got two local 200 km rides lined up for the remainder of this year, not interested in tackling this route Jan-March and will be away March-April. 

More than happy to have company along if it works out. Will PM you shortly.


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## velovoice (14 Sep 2011)

middleagecyclist said:


> Yes I do. Yes I am.
> 
> Likely going to be looking at May 2012 onwards. Have got two local 200 km rides lined up for the remainder of this year, not interested in tackling this route Jan-March and will be away March-April.
> 
> More than happy to have company along if it works out. Will PM you shortly.



Without looking yet at logistics involved in getting there from London... I agree, this sounds a very good idea and I'd be interested in doing it. May sounds good. Please could you keep me in mind closer to the time once you've got better idea on details? Thanks.


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## middleagecyclist (14 Sep 2011)

RebeccaOlds said:


> Without looking yet at logistics involved in getting there from London... I agree, this sounds a very good idea and I'd be interested in doing it. May sounds good. Please could you keep me in mind closer to the time once you've got better idea on details? Thanks.



PM coming your way Rebecca.


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## lazycyclist (22 Sep 2011)

Add another one........I've been on the e-mail list for a couple of months, but now I've found this forum and thread it's time to accept it's really going to happen ! I was meant to ride my first ever Audax this coming Sunday (North Cheshire Clarion's Wizard and Llamas Audax), but have been struck down by a virus all week and currently couldn't even cycle to the shop let alone ride an Audax ! I'm afraid I may drag the average age down a bit though as I'll only be 51 for the LEL .


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## middleagecyclist (22 Sep 2011)

lazycyclist said:


> Add another one........


Do you mean for the DIY via Yad Moss? If so you are more than welcome. Give me a PM.

I am hoping to make it a 400 km from Manchester and return via Barnard Castle, Brampton and Penrith. It works out at 405 km using the walking option on Google Maps. Very rough plan at the moment but i'll work on it. Got my first 200 km lined up for next week so i'll get that out of the way first.


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## lazycyclist (23 Sep 2011)

Sorry no not for the DIY Yad Moss. I meant for the 2013 LEL.


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## DanialW (5 Oct 2011)

lazycyclist said:


> I'm afraid I may drag the average age down a bit though as I'll only be 51 for the LEL .



I had an email last week from another person with an eye on LEL2013 as their next big target. If they ride, they will be celebrating their 50th on the road.


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## heinim (8 Oct 2011)

Well I've marked LEL 2013 in my calendar... so you can add me also to the map. Will hopefully be able to make some tours in UK before to get used the landscape.


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## heinim (8 Oct 2011)

One urgent question comes up in my mind: do you recommend Ale, Guiness or Lager during this long efforts?


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## PpPete (8 Oct 2011)

heinim said:


> One urgent question comes up in my mind: do you recommend Ale, Guiness or Lager during this long efforts?



Welcome heinim !

UK audax rides are best fuelled by TEA ! Actually most of the controls will probably also offer another beverage they call "coffee" but this will be entirely unrelated to the drink of the same name that you continental persons will be familiar with. !


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## mcshroom (8 Oct 2011)

... and of the three you give - ale seems to be the most restorative in my experience 

Welcome aboard the mad ship LEL


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## martint235 (8 Oct 2011)

mcshroom said:


> ... and of the three you give - ale seems to be the most restorative in my experience
> 
> Welcome aboard the mad ship LEL



But I seem to remember a Spanish study that showed lager (I assume that when the Spanish say beer they mean lager, could be wrong though) was the best recovery drink to use after exercise.


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## iZaP (8 Oct 2011)

Two pints of Guinness and I'll cycle back from anywhere


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## yello (8 Oct 2011)

PBP out the way, my thoughts have looked ahead and even at this early stage I reckon I can say that I'll be riding. I seem to think fondly of LEL, not quite sure why. There's something 'down home local friendly' about it I guess. 

Couple of 1000+ brevets I want to do next year though, so they're my more immediate concerns.


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## heinim (9 Oct 2011)

iZaP said:


> Two pints of Guinness and I'll cycle back from anywhere



That's what exactly what I supposed to hear.


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## Greenbank (10 Oct 2011)

heinim said:


> One urgent question comes up in my mind: do you recommend Ale, Guiness or Lager during this long efforts?



During? I try and avoid it.

One reason I like Audax is that it means I'm not in the pub on a session watching football/rugby, or even just having the odd 'cheeky' beer.

I don't want Audaxing to become another excuse for a few cheeky drinks. If there's a control at a pub I'll have a lime and soda or the like (unless it's the final control).

The 5 days of LEL in 2009 was the longest I've been without alcohol in probably 10 years.

On PBP I held out until Sizun on the way back (~650km) and had a panache (lager shandy) at a roadside cafe and watched everyone going past. I had another panache the next day. I made up for it after finishing though.


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## heinim (17 Oct 2011)

I've received an email from the LEL 2013 Team that states: "You do not need to qualify to enter." Does this mean no brevets etc.?


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## Ian H (17 Oct 2011)

heinim said:


> I've received an email from the LEL 2013 Team that states: "You do not need to qualify to enter." Does this mean no brevets etc.?



Yes. Though you'd be well advised to plan some training including long rides in preparation.


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## RoyW (21 Oct 2011)

I am interested in doing the LEL but am unsure what to expect in terms of physical effort. I have managed to finish the Kernow SW 600 for the last couple of years if that is anything to help judge by but have never ridden a longer distance (in fact the longest ride I have done other than the Kernow SW is a 300).

Riding a Scott Carbon CR1
Website: http://www.landsend-...hnogroats.co.uk
A wise man once said that people who make quotes have too much time on theirhands


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## PpPete (24 Oct 2011)

Using my preferred online tools for measuring ascent the Kernow 600 has just over 6000 mtrs of ascent, whilst the LEL route is just over 8000mtrs, so very roughly half as hilly overall - and even the toughest sections of the LEL are no hillier than the overall average for the Kernow.

Your biggest challenge could be keeping your speed down on the flatter southern sections !


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## Sam T (28 Nov 2011)

Arch, can you add me to the map please? I'm in Kingston upon Thames.

Just ordered the book


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## Nuncio (29 Nov 2011)

You’ll be OK RoyW. It’ll be a lot less hilly and there’s a lower minimum average speed. You can use these advantages to get more sleep. And I assume there will be a bag drop facility offered so you won’t have to carry too much.

Did you finish the Kernow and South West rides comfortably? I don’t mean comfortably within time. Nor do I mean: were you as fresh as a daisy when you finished (I would expect not). But did you have saddle sores, digestion or hydration problems, knee pain, numb hands, or other niggles? If not, great. If so, try and get them sorted because they’re unlikely to improve after 600km and they’re the sort of things more likely to end a ride rather than general tiredness.


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## Hedgehoguk (30 Nov 2011)

I am keen provided I am home with the beast in time from another long ride.


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## JohnTCC (1 Dec 2011)

Go on then you might as well put me down on the list... I have recently started audaxing having done 100, 160 X 2, 200, I might just have reached 600 by 2013

JohnTCC
Brentwood, Essex


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## mcshroom (10 Apr 2012)

Well this thread seems to have stalled a bit. 472 days to go before LEL , how are you all getting on?

I'm now entered into my first 300km ride next month have started doing some 200s. I might be looking at riding a 400 and a 600 this year as well depending on how well the 300 goes, and I'm on LonJOG with a weeks touring after that, so I'm starting to look forward to next year, although still rather scared by the whole massiveness of the distance involved.

The weight loss is not really happening though. I wonder how many 18st+ riders have completed LEL


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## NeoCaesar (12 Apr 2012)

Hello guys,

I have had my mind set on completing an ultra endurance ride next year and LEL seems perfect. Just rode my first ton two weeks ago and it has whetted my appetite no end. I couldn't find when this ride was planned for. Obviously I am new to this forum but I will have gotten to know some of you by then no doubt. Also, if I was having difficulties with time restraints or travel arrangements would anyone object if I joined for E>L only or is that not in the spirit of things? (I don't want anyone thinking I'm yellow-bellied...) I would much prefer LEL and hope the 'when' allows it for me.

Thank you.


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## martint235 (12 Apr 2012)

Welcome 

LEL is a formal Audax UK event next July (2013). I don't think you can enter just part of it, however there is nothing to stop you riding any of the route as a DIY audax. For more info please see the LEL website here.


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## NeoCaesar (12 Apr 2012)

Oh right, I thought it was an informal undertaking by the forum members. Thank you.


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## GerryPHX (7 May 2012)

Yesterday, a note popped up on a rando email list of which i'm a member & mentioned the LEL website. A 2009 finisher from the US posted his ride report also. That was all it took. The wife is on board as is my riding partner. 

A quick google search led me here and I've read a fair amount of the old posts....enough to know that I'll be of the average age noted a few posts back! Anyway, I hope to attend and meet many of you next year! This will be quite different from the deserts of Arizona and I'm looking forward to the ride.


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## rb58 (7 May 2012)

^^
Welcome! I imagine it'll be very different indeed from riding in Arizona... You may need to pack an extra layer.....


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## GerryPHX (7 May 2012)

....and rain gear. Appreciate the welcome also.


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## GerryPHX (7 May 2012)

On the other hand, if there's a heat wave.....

I play a game here in the summer. I start an early morning ride and try to exceed the temperature (in F) in miles by noon. Generally speaking, I'm 80-85 miles in the hole before I roll out of bed. 

What can I say? It's a goal and an sickness.


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## Flying Dodo (7 May 2012)

Switch to Celcius and you can have a bit of a lie-in.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (7 May 2012)

goodness me i need to start taking this serious, it's not far off now!.


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## ianrauk (7 May 2012)

Unfortunately I am out. I know that my knee and my body could not take the stress of this ride.


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## martint235 (7 May 2012)

bromptonfb said:


> goodness me i need to start taking this serious, it's not far off now!.


Nah it's over a year away yet.....


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (7 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Nah it's over a year away yet.....


with life and niggling illness' getting in the way last year and placements so far this year, i haven't got much riding in. i really need to get serious, especially doing it on the brommie.


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## martint235 (7 May 2012)

Injuries (to me and other people) mean I've achieved none of my goals for this year so far. I was going for an SR which is slipping away (ie not done a single audax yet). LEL will be fun!!


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## mcshroom (8 May 2012)

Illness means I'm one tour and about 800km down on where I wanted to be. However I do have a hilly 150, and a 200 Audax in this year and I'm riding a 300 on Saturday so hopefully I'm still on track for an SR (which I'm now sure is short for 'Sectionable Rider')


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## PpPete (8 May 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Illness means I'm one tour and about 800km down on where I wanted to be. However I do have a hilly 150, and a 200 Audax in this year and I'm riding a 300 on Saturday so hopefully I'm still on track for an SR (which I'm now sure is short for *'Sectionable Rider'*)


 
Not wrong there mcshroom !
Still on course for my SR this year, 200s every month so far, and a 300 done. This year's "big one" - the Bryan Chapman (600km) - is in less than two weeks time now. The "National 400" should, I hope, be easy by comparison.


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## mcshroom (8 May 2012)

Good luck in the Brian Chapman - I'm a chicken so my 600 (should I choose to accept it) is looking like the Cambrian on the 14th July (only 3000m climbing in 600km) and I'm looking at the Wiggy 300 and the LlanfairP 400 in three weeks time first.

Then there's the small matter of LonJOG and the extra extension round to Cape Wrath and down to Mallaig to worry about


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## Ian H (8 May 2012)

The new LEL website is now live. http://londonedinburghlondon.com/


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## frank9755 (13 May 2012)

mcshroom said:


> the extra extension round to Cape Wrath and down to Mallaig to worry about


That is a ride I'd love to do! Look forward to hearing about it.


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## mcshroom (13 May 2012)

Well the Wiggy didn't really work. I cramped up riding into Richmond and had to pack at just over 200km. Looks like a bit more training may be needed


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## Slowerthanmyshadow (18 May 2012)

I usually end up riding alone and some of the more remote locations might test my stubbornness to the limit.


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## PpPete (22 May 2012)

Just to continue discussion in the other thread.... you can certainly charge 4xAA batteries from a dynohub with a day's riding... which gives you easily enough to power a Garmin Etrex for the next 24hours, and then use the dynohub for lighting at night. Or plan your stops to minimise night riding, pack Lithium batteries in your drop-bag / buy Duracells @ garages


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## iZaP (22 May 2012)

Where I work at, my boss got some samples from China of charging packs, some are 10k mAh, some 7/8k, etc. Charges my garmin perfectly!!! and they aren't as expensive as some of the branded charging packs!


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## PalmerSperry (30 May 2012)

The pair of Edge 305s I had (I dropped them and they stopped working!) would happily take a charge whilst continuing to function, however the Edge 500 I've got turns itself off as soon as external power is applied.  If I end up doing this LEL lark after all[1] I may need to come up with alternative arrangements! Though since I've read that the Edge doesn't like recording more than some few hundreds of km (400?) I'd have to come up with something for that anyway I guess.

[1] A relative has unhelpfully rescheduled their wedding, and hence I may be forced to choose between that and LEL.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (30 May 2012)

tbh route cards are pretty good and not difficult to use, that said i'll probably sell the edge 500 and by something better.


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## Jdratcliffe (31 May 2012)

Love to anyone know the cost? what was the entrance fee last year?


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## ianrauk (31 May 2012)

Jdratcliffe said:


> Love to anyone know the cost? what was the entrance fee last year?


 
It didn't run last year. Last one was 2009. It's run every 4 years.
I think I remember the cost was around the £250 mark.


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## PpPete (31 May 2012)

reproduced from "another place"



> author=London Edinburgh London link=topic=59278.msg1227295#msg1227295 date=1336576286]
> Almost certainly over £200, but not a huge amount over.


 
But that does include all your food and sleeping facilities at controls...


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## Jdratcliffe (31 May 2012)

what other "stuff did you guys take? / need? eg did you take locks,food,civy clothing? sleeping bag? or was there places to left bikes securley and did you just curl up and die at rest stops?


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## ianrauk (31 May 2012)

Jdratcliffe said:


> what other "stuff did you guys take? / need? eg did you take locks,food,civy clothing? sleeping bag? or was there places to left bikes securley and did you just curl up and die at rest stops?


 

Get yerself *this* book from CC's very own Arallsopp
And have a read of the LEL website *here.* Tells you all you need to know


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## Scilly Suffolk (31 May 2012)

Both CTC and YACF have strong audax contingents.


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## GerryPHX (3 Jun 2012)

PalmerSperry said:


> The pair of Edge 305s I had (I dropped them and they stopped working!) would happily take a charge whilst continuing to function, however the Edge 500 I've got turns itself off as soon as external power is applied.  If I end up doing this LEL lark after all[1] I may need to come up with alternative arrangements!



There's a specific pin-out on some battery packs for use with the 500 that will prevent it from turning off when power is applied. I seem to recall that it's a 50k resister used on one particular pin. If you can't locate the details, let me know offline and I'll dig them out. it's not a hard issue to resolve though.


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## PalmerSperry (3 Jun 2012)

GerryPHX said:


> There's a specific pin-out on some battery packs for use with the 500 that will prevent it from turning off when power is applied. I seem to recall that it's a 50k resister used on one particular pin. If you can't locate the details, let me know offline and I'll dig them out. it's not a hard issue to resolve though.


 
Ta! Good to know there is a solution.


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## Nuncio (6 Jun 2012)

Jdratcliffe said:


> what other "stuff did you guys take? / need? eg did you take locks,food,civy clothing? sleeping bag? or was there places to left bikes securley and did you just curl up and die at rest stops?


I think entry 3 years ago was £150. I paid extra for the jersey. The only time I paid for anything during the whole 5 days was for a cheeky between-controls ice lolly. The food provided at the controls was pretty much spot on and it was great not having to have to fuss for cash at each stop. I seem to remember that the £150 also covered a 'bag drop', and you could pay a bit more for a second one. I had a change of clothes, some spares, and some washing stuff in my bag drop bag at Dalkeith. There were showers there.

I was dropped off at the start, and collected at the end, so I had no need to worry about civvies.

I took a very basic combination lock but didn't use it. At the controls there were so many other bikes that were more attractive than mine, there seemed little point. I had a few oaty bars as bonk rations but didn't use them. And I had a sleeping bag liner which was enough. I slept on the floor at Thorne, in the back of a helper's car at Eskdalemuir (control was full - not even any space on the floor), in a bunk bed at Alston, and in a proper bed at my Mum's, which was on route, on the return. 

Although everything worked for me last time - except the enormous queues for registration - it was in spite of the over-all organization. I think the individual control organizers took on a lot of responsibility themselves and made it work. I get the impression that the committee for next year's event is leaving nothing to chance. It's looking very good.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Jun 2012)

^^^^ thanks, that was helpful.


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## thojj (8 Jun 2012)

I googled to get to this thread,then joined to comment and now I've *done* all 31 pages and Im convinced,being 55 next year and having only cycled for 15 months ,the LEL is for me!!!!!
I achieved 12000 miles in that 1st years cycling and I am well on the way to repeating that this year.Tomorrow is a local 100 km sportive which I will be doing the route twice and in July I am in for a 400 km audax,300 plus 50 each way to the event,in Ashford,(Kent).
I look forward to taking advice and encouragement for you like minded mad people.


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## thojj (8 Jun 2012)

p.s.I have just ordered this book:-Barring Mechanicals - From London to Edinburgh and back, on a recumbent bicycle.
All other advice will be most welcome.


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## mcshroom (8 Jun 2012)

Hi and 

Looks like you're far better prepared than me already


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## thojj (9 Jun 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Hi and
> 
> Looks like you're far better prepared than me already


 

Thanks for your welcome,
but how deceptive appearances can be ...
It was only when I realised there would be a *rest*station never more than 35 miles away,assuming I'm not totaly lost,( ),that I made my final insane announcement to my family.....
They,I'm sure,much the same as all our respective families in the matter of potential 1400km rides,gave the look of understanding....
Knowing that those,"out the door at 3 in the morning for a 6 hour ride",days are going to continue through the winter,not just between May and October must be so re-assuring for them.....
That moment when they return from a concert with friends in the early hours to be met by the Lycra clad,old man,with the Altura Night Rider jacket reflecting any light,will remain priceless in my memory,
"long after the thrill of living has gone"


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## thojj (9 Jun 2012)

As ever I remember something after the event....Lighting..I use a cateye light and Altura night Jacket and helmet light,which is Ok for the lonely nights localy where my knowledge of the roads and very little traffic have raised no issues thus far..but of course for the LEL I feel I will need something more efficiant though four Cateye lights on a bar has crossed my mind having found battery life with these modern led's to be verging on the possobility of black magic involvement
Please,suggestions would be most welcome,my budget runs close to the wind,im sure Im not alone here,but Im hoping that £100:00 ish should be ok?????


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## Scilly Suffolk (9 Jun 2012)

With regards to lighting, £100 is ample if you steer clear of the big brands: have a read of this blog, he is well informed about both lights and batteries.

More generally, you should sign-up with both the CTC and YACF, as well as here: both have strong touring/Audax contingents and offer a wealth of advice on all matters related to long distance cycling.

I can also recommend The Long Distance Cyclists' Handbook by Simon Doughty: it covers, the bike, clothing, nutrition and also has training plans; I'm following the 600km plan this year and will be using the 1,000km one in the lead up to LEL.


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## thojj (9 Jun 2012)

Many thanks for your advice Scilly Suffolk.
I look forward to joining both forums mentioned as I am a firm believer in never having too much advice in all matters cycling.Sadly the book is out of my bike budget this month @ £30:00 but has been added to next months.
With referance to the LEL,after todays 204 km ride in the wind,I feel I am about half way there.My target is 4 sections of 350 km with a 4 hour eat,clean,sleep break in between...
I just need to improve my training to get back from Edingburgh now....


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## Scilly Suffolk (9 Jun 2012)

thojj said:


> ...Sadly the book is out of my bike budget this month @ £30:00 but has been added to next months...


£30! I didn't look at the price when I posted the link: I certainly didn't pay £30.

Does £10.87 sound a little more palatable?


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## thojj (9 Jun 2012)

It most certainly does thank you ...
Dam you Amazon and your crazy prices


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## thojj (11 Jun 2012)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> £30! I didn't look at the price when I posted the link: I certainly didn't pay £30.
> 
> Does £10.87 sound a little more palatable?


Book ordered this very morning!


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## Bikerchick (11 Jun 2012)

Im all up for doing it. What book are you talking about. Maybe if we all start doing a sun dance we may be lucky!!


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## thojj (15 Jun 2012)

thojj said:


> p.s.I have just ordered this book:-Barring Mechanicals - From London to Edinburgh and back, on a recumbent bicycle.
> All other advice will be most welcome.


Got this through the post this morning and sat down and read it in a 2 hour reading.Very Inspiring and has finalised any lingering doubt I may have had about taking part in the L.E.L. 2012


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## alans (15 Jun 2012)

you'll have to wait untill 2013


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## thojj (15 Jun 2012)

alans said:


> you'll have to wait untill 2013


 oooooooooooooops!


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## martint235 (15 Jun 2012)

thojj said:


> Got this through the post this morning and sat down and read it in a 2 hour reading.Very Inspiring and has finalised any lingering doubt I may have had about taking part in the L.E.L. 2012


In case you missed them in the book, Andy the author (arallsopp), Rimas and various other people who pop up are members of this here parish.


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## GerryPHX (22 Jun 2012)

Well, progress continues. I've completed the SR series with the finish of a 600k last weekend in Utah. The temps were hot (mid-90's) during the day and cold at night (low 50's). We weren't fast but we did manage a couple hours' sleep. Overall, I felt very good with our finish at 38 hours and could have gone much further if I had to but, I didn't have too so we called it a day at the end of the 600k.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (22 Jun 2012)

well done, weathers a bit iffy in the uk at the moment and i've only managed a few 200km's, will be doing a few 300km's in july whatever the weather.


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## Cush (23 Jun 2012)

Can not now do the LDWA annual 100 mile walk due to dodge knee, I will be on the home run to 70 next year when the LEL takes place, but what is the distance in miles and what distances are we expected to complete per day, and what bikes would we be expected to ride, having just spent (for me) a fortune on a Dawes Nomad another new bike would = divorce,


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## London Edinburgh London (23 Jun 2012)

Hi Cush

It's a shade under 900 miles. You'll have to ride a minimum of 288km every 24 hours, which is just under 180 miles.

You can ride whatever bike you choose. Racers, tourers, mountain bikes, recumbents, tandems, it's all good.


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## Cush (23 Jun 2012)

Hm, this needs some thinking about, I want some think to celebrate the 70th with but I havent done much riding this year due to very personal commitments, though I have rode 112 miles in 12 hours a couple of year ago. I think another 100 plus mile ride is on the cards before I start serious planning and training.


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## Scruffy (23 Jun 2012)

Hello. Haven't been on here for a while cos haven't been cycling for quite a while. I am going to do the LEL and somewhat scared and excited by it. I have got overweight since stopping smoking last year so fatter and unfit . Have to figure out how to do those five days gluten free and get back on my bike.

Just selling my cyclecross at the mo and buying a second hand road bike so hope to get decent one for this ride. Eek, so much training to do.

Please can I go on the map? I'm in Lancaster. Thank you.


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## PpPete (24 Jun 2012)

To my mind the significant difference between LDWA 100 and the longer Audaxes (apart from the wheels!) is the sleep deprivation.
You won't have to ride particularly quickly on LEL to build up enough time buffer for a few hour's kip each night, whereas on LDWA 100 you are, as I understand it, deemed to have retired if you spend more than two hours in any one control.


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## Cush (24 Jun 2012)

The main problem I had with the 100 was holding food down, that certainly finished me on one or two, sleep was a problem in the last stages but not a massive one.


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## Bikerchick (25 Jun 2012)

PpPete said:


> To my mind the significant difference between LDWA 100 and the longer Audaxes (apart from the wheels!) is the sleep deprivation.
> You won't have to ride particularly quickly on LEL to build up enough time buffer for a few hour's kip each night, whereas on LDWA 100 you are, as I understand it, deemed to have retired if you spend more than two hours in any one control.


What's LDWA 100?


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## martint235 (25 Jun 2012)

Bikerchick said:


> What's LDWA 100?


 Long Distance Walking Association 100 miles (I think)


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## PpPete (25 Jun 2012)

martint235 said:


> Long Distance Walking Association 100 miles (I think)


correct - was sort of responding to Cush's post upthread.


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## Tynan (26 Jun 2012)

toying with this after reading some blogs, it's still a full year way init, surely there's no real need to be training now other than for experience, the time off is the sticky bit I fear


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## Cush (27 Jun 2012)

I have never done an ultra none stop cycle ride, other than a 112 lone ride two or three years ago and that took me about 14 hours but untill last year I had done at least one 50 mile walk a year for five years and a lot of distances in between. Luck always played a part in these but so did prep, getting the right kit, getting in to the right mind set but above all getting the miles in before the event. In my opinion it would be wrong to enter the LEL with out doing a lot of hard miles in the saddle before hand but the added worry to the LEL is the chance of a mech breakdown, so a little practice at changing tubes and maybe other minor mech jobs would be part of the prep as would working out the route on the map before hand and practice map reading. I know how easy it is to take a left turn instead of a right turn or worse miss out a turn altogether at 03:00 when the eyes and mind are not working together. I will make up my mind some time in August and if I decide to go for it I will hit the road heavy all winter.


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## Starbuck (26 Jul 2012)

Hi - as the future of my favourite Rad am Ring hangs in the balance for 2013, and I am unable to start there this year for a number of reasons, I was looking for another challenege and came across LEL...
I am very tempted - I must admit....
Is it individual riders only or possible as a team relay?
I'd have a year to get ready and with the sun finally out, I can start today....
Anyone ever done it before???

Oh: hello everybody!  Sorry for dropping in like this...am new on this block...


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## Sittingduck (26 Jul 2012)

I have had to think seriously about this and if is within my capabilities. At first it sounds doable then you break it down into exactly how many miles you need to do, on consecutive days, with little sleep.

The last point there could be the killer, for me! Will have to give it some serious thought...


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## mcshroom (26 Jul 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Hi - as the future of my favourite Rad am Ring hangs in the balance for 2013, and I am unable to start there this year for a number of reasons, I was looking for another challenege and came across LEL...
> I am very tempted - I must admit....
> Is it individual riders only or possible as a team relay?
> I'd have a year to get ready and with the sun finally out, I can start today....
> ...



Hi Starbuck. It's an individual ride - you do have to ride the whole 1400km in the time limit 

For more information on the ride, have a look at http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com


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## martint235 (26 Jul 2012)

[QUOTE 1952826, member: 1314"]arallsopp just liked this. Bloody hell. Better get my arse into gear, then. [/quote]
I think the operative word in all this is *gear* User. I think LEL would be a fantastic achievement on a fixie!!


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## martint235 (26 Jul 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> I have had to think seriously about this and if is within my capabilities. At first it sounds doable then you break it down into exactly how many miles you need to do, on consecutive days, with little sleep.
> 
> The last point there could be the killer, for me! Will have to give it some serious thought...


Ant, you decide your own sleep. Effectively you have to do something like 180 miles per day. If you can do that within say 16 hours, you can have 8 hours sleep. It's just that people do tend to snatch short sleeps in between relatively short bits of riding.

My plan A is not to sleep on night 1 and then have 8 hours a night. We'll see how that works out.


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## arallsopp (26 Jul 2012)

Just read this thread front to back. Got to get my head back in the zone as I've committed to meeting my family in Cornwall next week, and I'm not planning on using the car... Ah, quite exciting really. Hoping to be there for start of play Thursday, which will be good considering I can't set off until some as yet undetermined hour on Weds. 

Its about time i got a long ride in. Missed too many of late, with a resulting dent in my confidence that says "you won't make it past croydon."

Time will tell... And im lookimg forward to the result, even if I dont know which way it'll go. 

Now that the summer has arrived, who else is chasing big miles?


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## middleagecyclist (26 Jul 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Now that the summer has arrived, who else is chasing big miles?


I'm hoping to get a 300 in this summer. Lots going on at the moment so it will be a squeeze but I have wifey approval to got for it*. I plan on an SR in 2013 though.

*She doesn't know about the Audax bike i'm planning to purchase!


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## Sittingduck (26 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> Ant, you decide your own sleep. *Effectively you have to do something like 180 miles per day*. If you can do that within say 16 hours, you can have 8 hours sleep. It's just that people do tend to snatch short sleeps in between relatively short bits of riding.
> 
> My plan A is not to sleep on night 1 and then have 8 hours a night. We'll see how that works out.


 
You see, this is the bit that scares me


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## StuAff (26 Jul 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Now that the summer has arrived, who else is chasing big miles?


I haven't really stopped chasing them. Am thinking of trying to make next month's Winchester-London ride into a 200 miler (box to be ticked since I failed to do it on the Martlets ride last year).

User: You have many options. Whatever you go for, I'd suggest relaxed geometry, comfort rather than stiffness, clearance for 25mm if not wider tyres, and either a compact or a triple chainset. You don't need to spend £2k. But you want to spend it


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## StuAff (26 Jul 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> You see, this is the bit that scares me


Seriously, you can manage that....


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## Sittingduck (26 Jul 2012)

80 or so per day for 5 days, sure...

Double that is quite a different proposition, I am thinking  We'll have to see.


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## StuAff (26 Jul 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> 80 or so per day for 5 days, sure...
> 
> Double that is quite a different proposition, I am thinking  We'll have to see.


It's not actually that much of a step up. I've done consecutive centuries, FNRttC and DunRun the following night...as with any long ride, it's just a question of pacing yourself (on and off the bike).


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## arallsopp (27 Jul 2012)

StuAff said:


> I haven't really stopped chasing them. Am thinking of trying to make next month's Winchester-London ride into a 200 miler (box to be ticked since I failed to do it on the Martlets ride last year).



The only way i know to score a 200 is to have nothing else on the do list. No ride to join. No work to fit in. No family obligations. Just one day, preferably with a good friend (or four) an early start, and a 24 hour window. If it goes well, you get home before 18 hours are up and can squeeze in a sleep before the next days demands start anew. If not, well, theres the adventure. 

Every time ive tried to wrap a big ride around something else, its been too hard to keep the pace level.


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## martint235 (27 Jul 2012)

[QUOTE 1952938, member: 1314"]
"I need a new and better bike as I'm doing LEL" (to OH) "it's for champions (etc)...I need to spend at least 2k. May need to spend a bit more if I want gears."

OH: "Oh you hero you. OK."[/quote]
Strangely enough that is precisely, word for word, the conversation that preceded the purchase of Lelly. Well ok she never said "you hero you" but she did say "ok".


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## martint235 (27 Jul 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> 80 or so per day for 5 days, sure...
> 
> Double that is quite a different proposition, I am thinking  We'll have to see.


I think you'll be fine. You do need to do a ride that pushes you past 200 though. Strangely enough there is my ride down to meet Tim in Winchester and then cycle back that with a bit of tweaking could fit the bill.


arallsopp said:


> Got to get my head back in the zone as I've committed to meeting my family in Cornwall next week, and I'm not planning on using the car... Ah, quite exciting really. Hoping to be there for start of play Thursday, which will be good considering I can't set off until some as yet undetermined hour on Weds.
> Its about time i got a long ride in. Missed too many of late, with a resulting dent in my confidence that says "you won't make it past croydon."
> Now that the summer has arrived, who else is chasing big miles?


You know you're going to do it. It might hurt but you'll do it. You're just listening to the little voice that shouldn't be listened to. When I left for Nelson I was in such a panicked state that I didn't calm down until St Albans and it just wastes energy.

At the start of the year I was chasing big miles and only one of the rides actually came off and that was Nelson. That was to test whether I could do that distance entirely alone and unsupported. I'll be doing it again next year just because I have unfinished business with the Peak District.

I'm always up for going on a long ride particularly once the Olympics are over and I've got stacks of leave I've not been able to take.


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## mcshroom (27 Jul 2012)

I messed up my 300km in May, so my planned SR series isn't going to happen, but I'm going for a 400km in a couple weeks. 

This time I've made sure that there's no need for me to be home for a certain time so if I run out of time for the Audax I can still finish at my own pace. For the 300 I had it in my head that if I got stuck in the NY Moors in the middle of Saturday night then I would not be able to get back home in time to meet my commitments on Sunday, so I packed at 200km(ish) and rode back to the train home (235km total distance).

I agree with Andy that the big thing you need for a long ride is no other things to get in the way so you can just ride.


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## StuAff (27 Jul 2012)

arallsopp said:


> The only way i know to score a 200 is to have nothing else on the do list. No ride to join. No work to fit in. No family obligations. Just one day, preferably with a good friend (or four) an early start, and a 24 hour window. If it goes well, you get home before 18 hours are up and can squeeze in a sleep before the next days demands start anew. If not, well, theres the adventure.
> 
> Every time ive tried to wrap a big ride around something else, its been too hard to keep the pace level.


Good point. Big Martin's riding from HPC to Winchester, so I'm thinking join him for that, then the ride back to the smoke until some point in Surrey when I'm the appropriate distance from home, then south. The pace should be level enough until the home stretch...


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## PpPete (27 Jul 2012)

Our problem's not the miles now. OH and I have done our SR this year, and now even lumpy 200s (that half-killed me early last year) are quite comfortable, even with extra 30 tacked on to ride home after.
No, the problem's financial - OH really ought to have a new bike for it - not really fair for her to be riding a 1987 Dawes Galaxy when I'm on shiny new Van Nic, and we can't afford it. 
Especially as my car's just written itself off, by blowing the turbo and wrecking the engine. 
Spectacular clouds of smoke when it went though !


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## yello (27 Jul 2012)

Re the daily distance, don't let it freak you. It might sound daunting now as you think about it but there's an important factor you're not considering (and I've said this before, but it's worth repeating)....

...when you're there on the road between London and Edinburgh, riding is all you have to do. It's your only concern. There is no lawn to mow, no car to wash, dogs to walk, dinner to cook, etc etc etc etc etc. All you do is ride... oh, and eat.... and sometimes sleep. That context changes everything believe me.


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## alans (27 Jul 2012)

mcshroom said:


> but I'm going for a 400km in a couple weeks.
> .


 
which one?


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## Trickedem (27 Jul 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Now that the summer has arrived, who else is chasing big miles?


 
I have one more ride to do for my SR this year. On the 8th August myself and RB58 will be cycling from Thurrock to Moffat, or thereabouts to claim the 600km. Hopefully we will then have a more leisurely ride for the remaining 50 miles or so into Edinburgh. The intention is to do 450km straight off to Scotch Corner where there is a Travelodge, after leaving around 7pm. I have no idea how hard this is going to be, but having done two 400km rides this year it seems less daunting. Wish us luck!


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## alans (27 Jul 2012)

I am ready now for LEL 2013....in my head.My body is lagging a loooong way behind but I'm working on it.

If I don't ride I'll volunteer for one of the controls


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## mcshroom (27 Jul 2012)

alans said:


> which one?



Schiehallion Sunrise


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## martint235 (27 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Our problem's not the miles now. OH and I have done our SR this year, and now even lumpy 200s (that half-killed me early last year) are quite comfortable, even with extra 30 tacked on to ride home after.
> No, the problem's financial - OH really ought to have a new bike for it - not really fair for her to be riding a 1987 Dawes Galaxy when I'm on shiny new Van Nic, and we can't afford it.
> Especially as my car's just written itself off, by blowing the turbo and wrecking the engine.
> Spectacular clouds of smoke when it went though !


That sucks. It is a bit of an expensive game isn't it? I managed to get the new bike, now scrimping a bit to ensure I have the entry fee.


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## arallsopp (28 Jul 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I have one more ride to do for my SR this year. On the 8th August myself and RB58 will be cycling from Thurrock to Moffat, or thereabouts to claim the 600km. Hopefully we will then have a more leisurely ride for the remaining 50 miles or so into Edinburgh. The intention is to do 450km straight off to Scotch Corner where there is a Travelodge, after leaving around 7pm. I have no idea how hard this is going to be, but having done two 400km rides this year it seems less daunting. Wish us luck!



Good luck! Sounds like you're amply prepared for the ride. Not sure how "leisurely" the first 7 out of Moffat might be, but the roll down to finish should be lovely.


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## Nebulous (28 Jul 2012)

StuAff said:


> User: You have many options. Whatever you go for, I'd suggest relaxed geometry, comfort rather than stiffness, clearance for 25mm if not wider tyres, and either a compact or a triple chainset. You don't need to spend £2k. But you want to spend it


 
Would this do?

I've just bought it as a commuter. It's certainly relaxed and is going well apart from some issues with crap tyres.

I keep getting drawn back to this thread. It would be a huge step up for me, having been more concerned about speed than distance to date. I have started a new job with a lot of holidays, so I could probably get the time off.


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## yello (28 Jul 2012)

Nebulous said:


> It would be a huge step up for me, having been more concerned about speed than distance to date.


 
That's no bad thing. At this point, any and all preparation is useful. I tend to ride for distance by default (and prefer it) but always do a couple of speed sessions before any event. It all comes together.


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## arallsopp (29 Jul 2012)

Nebulous said:


> Would this do?
> 
> I've just bought it as a commuter. It's certainly relaxed and is going well.



The best bike to ride on is the one you own. This looks up to the job, and the fact that you're commuting on it means you're likely to know how to keep it running, and how it handles in adverse conditions. Additionally, I'm sure muscle memory gets supercharged if you frequently find yourself jumping on before you're really awake. Its certainly a handy skill, either way 

That said, there's always a faster, lighter, stronger version floating in the edge of mind. Thing is, there always will be.


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## Nebulous (29 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That's no bad thing. At this point, any and all preparation is useful. I tend to ride for distance by default (and prefer it) but always do a couple of speed sessions before any event. It all comes together.


 
I'll need to learn to pace myself a bit more to hopefully last the distance.




arallsopp said:


> The best bike to ride on is the one you own. This looks up to the job, and the fact that you're commuting on it means you're likely to know how to keep it running, and how it handles in adverse conditions. Additionally, I'm sure muscle memory gets supercharged if you frequently find yourself jumping on before you're really awake. Its certainly a handy skill, either way
> 
> That said, there's always a faster, lighter, stronger version floating in the edge of mind. Thing is, there always will be.


 
Thanks - my 'main' bike for leisure is an allez. However 2 days on it with a backpack convinced me it isn't for endurance riding. The Edinburgh Bike one is a recent purchase as a sensible bike for commuting with guards and rack. I'll also use it as a bad weather trainer. Faster, lighter, stronger at the moment would be a full-on carbon race bike. If I commit to doing LEL I'll build up the distance though, and if I like long-distance events then that could change.


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## arallsopp (30 Jul 2012)

Nebulous said:


> 2 days on it with a backpack convinced me it isn't for endurance riding. Faster, lighter, stronger at the moment would be a full-on carbon race bike.



Sensible probably still wins the day here. A range of tyre choices, guards and baggage mounting options wins it for me. YMMV, of course.


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## martint235 (7 Aug 2012)

Right I have a plan. I have a week off work in Sept so I'm going to a ride of at least 100 miles every day. Hopefully this will give me a marker of whether I need to do anything else to prepare. If I can do 130-140 miles a day for a week, then I should be able to up that to the required 175-200 for LEL


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## Trickedem (7 Aug 2012)

I am off to Scotland tomorrow on my first ever 600km, with the train that is RB58. We are starting on the North side of the Dartford Crossing at around 6pm. We will then aim to ride on the LEL route through the night and the next day for 450km to Scotch Corner where a Travelodge awaits. In the morning we will finish the remaining 150km at Gretna Green, just over the border. At that point the clock will stop ticking and we will make our way onwards to Edinburgh. Please wish us luck.


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## Sittingduck (7 Aug 2012)

Good luck, indeed!


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## mcshroom (7 Aug 2012)

+1

I start my first 400 on Friday as well


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## martint235 (7 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I am off to Scotland tomorrow on my first ever 600km, with the train that is RB58. We are starting on the North side of the Dartford Crossing at around 6pm. We will then aim to ride on the LEL route through the night and the next day for 450km to Scotch Corner where a Travelodge awaits. In the morning we will finish the remaining 150km at Gretna Green, just over the border. At that point the clock will stop ticking and we will make our way onwards to Edinburgh. Please wish us luck.


Good luck! I wish I was coming along but c'est la vie.


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## Trickedem (7 Aug 2012)

mcshroom said:


> +1
> 
> I start my first 400 on Friday as well


Best of luck for yours. Whats the route?


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## mcshroom (8 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> Best of luck for yours. Whats the route?



It's the Schiehallion Sunrise.

It starts in Linlithgow then goes to Balfron, Aberfoyle, Crieff, Kinloch Rannoch, Pitlochry, Kirriemuir and Perth, then back to LInlithgow.


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## arallsopp (8 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I have one more ride to do for my SR this year....Wish us luck!


 
Good luck, both. Sounds like an amazing ride. It'll be good to have knowledge of the route ahead of the day. I'd imagine you'll both save a fair amount of nervous energy on the day if you've got a memory of what the turns look like.

Plus, good luck to McShroom. The 400 eluded me many times in '09, and its a great one to have.

Andy


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## Tynan (8 Aug 2012)

Given the time of year, presumably an early start each day means all the riding can be done in daylight, or at least not at night?


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## martint235 (9 Aug 2012)

Apart from the first 24 hours, my plan A is to ride during the day


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## Trickedem (9 Aug 2012)

We picked the right time for this. Progressing well. We left Thurrock at 6pm. 13 hours in we are 276km in, with less than 200km left to do today. Sun is up and Yorkshire beckons.


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## Tynan (10 Aug 2012)

martint235 said:


> Apart from the first 24 hours, my plan A is to ride during the day


that's to get a buffer?

doesn't quite answer the question though

surely riding when tired is going to spoil it a bit and starting it tired is going to mean tired for the whole time?


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## yello (11 Aug 2012)

Tynan said:


> Given the time of year, presumably an early start each day means all the riding can be done in daylight, or at least not at night?


 
Correct.

It'd be wise to be prepared for events to scupper any plan though. I'd advise you ride overnight at least once as a part of your preparation (note I don't call it 'training'!). Not just for you but also to ensure the bike, lights, etc are good to go.


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## rb58 (11 Aug 2012)

Deckertim of this parish and I rode the outbound leg this week. We rode from the Dartford Crossing, picked up the route in Loughton and then made our way to Edinburgh.

50 1/4 hours elapsed time. 460 miles.

Learning.
1. It's hard.
2. It's very hard.
3. The Fens is boring beyond compare and will be tough if there's a headwind. You will pray for a hill. A corner. Anything.
4. The hills proper start at 200 miles.
There are no insane hills, but fatigued legs make even the normally easiest a challenge towards the end of a leg.
5. Riding the first 300 miles in one hit is not a good plan.
6. Eat proper food whenever you can - sandwiches and cereal bars is not good enough.
7. If you lose your appetite, force it down. Little and often. Don't forget this. 
(I bonked about 4 miles from the end and it wasn't until later that I realised how little I'd eaten during the preceding 16 hours)
8. Be sure you are comfortable on your bike, especially the saddle. A Saturday club run is not the same as 48 hours solid. 
9. They do a good roast dinner at the Gretna Green visitor centre. That's the only reason to stop there. And don't expect any veg!
9. Don't do it if you expect to enjoy it.


I'm sure once my body and mind have healed I'll be able to provide some more considered advice!

I'm now heading to the station for a well deserved 5 hour sit down journey back to London.

Later.

EDIT: corrected the distance to miles, not km)


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## arallsopp (11 Aug 2012)

Sound advice there. Thanks.


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## mcshroom (12 Aug 2012)

I bailed out with a rear wheel problem early on yesterday. Unfortunately it also gave me time to think about riding through the night on my own with a massive distance still to go, and I've decided I'm sticking to rides up to 200km for the time being. I think that means I'm out of LEL


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## arallsopp (12 Aug 2012)

Sorry to hear this. Hope you can find a pace buddy on the 200s, as there's no need to ride LEL on your own. My experience (on a recumbent) had me in a different speed profile from the uprights, so I know the difficulties of the lone rider.


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## PpPete (12 Aug 2012)

With 750 riders on the road you'll not be on your own much.

And 5 days of 16-18 hours should be enough to get you round with very little night riding.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2


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## Tynan (12 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> Deckertim of this parish and I rode the outbound leg this week. We rode from the Dartford Crossing, picked up the route in Loughton and then made our way to Edinburgh.
> 
> 50 1/4 hours elapsed time. 460 miles.
> 
> ...


hmmm, not all good news there is it, and you're a rather good rider aintcha

I don't care for 1,2 and 9, especialy 9

the idea of turning round and riding back didn't appeal I take it?


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2012)

Tynan said:


> hmmm, not all good news there is it, and you're a rather good rider aintcha
> 
> I don't care for 1,2 and 9, especialy 9
> 
> the idea of turning round and riding back didn't appeal I take it?


I think that this is one of those things that if you start worrying about it, you'll never do it. Remember that the average age of entrants is way, way above yours and the vast majority (iirc around 90%) succeed.


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## Tynan (12 Aug 2012)

yes but I do have a childish dream that I might enjoy it, granted in a perhaps grimly determined way

I think I've made my mind up now anyway, I nearly asked the LBS to sponsor me on Friday

not sure anout 'way, way, what is the average age?


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2012)

I'm not sure that enjoying is on the agenda really. It's a challenge with a sense of achievement at the end hopefully. I'm expecting to be cursing my bike by day 4

I'm sure I read somewhere that it's around 59 but I've just tried finding where I'd read that and I can't!


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## Tynan (12 Aug 2012)

59!

Although I too well remember arriving at a control on a 200 to see two doddering riders leaving as I entered, I couldn't help but ask and the older one said he was 'well over 80'


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## arallsopp (12 Aug 2012)

I think I can honestly say I enjoyed finishing, recalling, and retelling. 

Its like the opposite of junk food, or a Micheal Bay film. Not particularly enjoyable in the present tense, but leaves you feeling massively satisfied and full of good feelings once its sat with you a while. 

Andy


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## frank9755 (12 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> Deckertim of this parish and I rode the outbound leg this week. We rode from the Dartford Crossing, picked up the route in Loughton and then made our way to Edinburgh.
> 
> 50 1/4 hours elapsed time. 460 miles.
> 
> ...


 
Well done, Ross!
I was particularly struck by 4. From what I'd picked up I was expecting it to be quite a hilly route. They are saying it is hillier than last time, and that was rather putting me off. If I do it, I'll want to press on, so a very hilly (and lane-y) route wouldn't be great. But what you say is encouraging.


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## rb58 (12 Aug 2012)

Average age is 55 apparently. Which is what I'll be next year. Hence my interest.

As Andy says, I don't think it's something you do to 'enjoy' - a sense of achievement perhaps, but not pleasure.

I think as Ppp says above, four and a half long days would probably do it. Tim and I did a 300 mile / 26 hour first day, grabbed 6 hours sleep, then completed it with a 175 mile / 16 hour (almost) daylight session. If we'd spent 8 hours resting in Edinburgh before starting the return trip, we'd still have had an additional 8 hours in the 'bank' to spend resting on the way back.

If I were doing it again, I'd do 200 miles, then get some sleep before tackling the Howardian Hills around Castle Howard with fresher legs. Of course timing sleep sessions with sleep places needs some planning and good fortune.

In terms of recovery, my legs could have turned the pedals of my bike yesterday again, but I'm not sure my backside could have coped. In fact, I'm still saddle sore today. So you need to be really sure about your saddle. Which I guess means getting the miles in between now and then on the bike / saddle you plan to use for LEL. I hadn't used my Thorn / Brooks combination for any serious distance since the Lands End to London leg of LE-LON-JOG earlier in the summer, other than for the FNRttC/SMRbtH a few days before. Clearly that was a mistake!

There are some stunning stretches to be cycled along the route. Around Castle Howard, around Barnard Castle, the Pennines, north of Moffat to name a few. But there are also some tedious stretches - The Fens and the road north of Gretna ( the old A74 I think) are examples.

As I said in my post above, proper food and proper hydration needs careful management. I got that seriously wrong.

In fact. Planning is the watch word. This is not just another ride, it's a serious undertaking and will require a lot of prep.

At the moment, I'm inclined not to enter LEL13. However, as Mrs rb58 said when she was mopping my brow, it could be (a bit) like having a baby...... At the time you swear you're not going to go through it again, but time heals and you end up remembering the good bits. (of course, I know riding a bike is not in the same pain league as having a baby, but you get my drift).


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## yello (12 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Not particularly enjoyable in the present tense, but leaves you feeling massively satisfied and full of good feelings once its sat with you a while.


 
I'd go with that. There'll be times you wonder why you're doing it, conversely times when you wouldn't be doing anything else. Afterwards, an incredible sense of fatigue and achievement.

I found a perverse delight in the rain and wind of 2009. The first time I've ever needed to pedal _down_ a hill, incredible.


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## arallsopp (12 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> At the moment, I'm inclined not to enter LEL13. However, as Mrs rb58 said when she was mopping my brow, it could be (a bit) like having a baby...... At the time you swear you're not going to go through it again, but time heals and you end up remembering the good bits. (of course, I know riding a bike is not in the same pain league as having a baby, but you get my drift).



Now, you see, this is the problem with preparing properly. I didnt start to feel like this until I was 450 miles into LEL2009, by which time completing was the easiest way to get self and bike home  You are far better prepared than I was (or indeed am) and a stronger rider to boot.


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## alans (12 Aug 2012)

mcshroom said:


> I bailed out with a rear wheel problem early on yesterday. Unfortunately it also gave me time to think about riding through the night on my own with a massive distance still to go, and I've decided I'm sticking to rides up to 200km for the time being. I think that means I'm out of LEL


 
Allow me to suggest that it's too soon to decide _not_ to ride.It's still the thick end of a year away & lot of water will pass under the bridge km may pass under your wheels twixt now & then.
I too plan to get a few 200km rides under my wheels & then I'll start to ramp up the distances in the spring of 2013,hopefully being able to do a couple of 600km rides next April & May to allow for a little tapering.
As far as solo night riding is concerned I imagine that you're not likely to be alone much given the number of riders on the road.In the meantime you may find someone whose style & pace matches your own & is happy to ride with you for the duration.This latter plan was much in evidence from my observations in 2009.
IME it's also unwise to make any sort of long term decisions in the immediate aftermath of a ride which may have been a dissappointment for whatever reason.


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## alans (12 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> Deckertim of this parish and I rode the outbound leg this
> 9. Don't do it if you expect to enjoy it.


 
At the risk of sounding masochistic,I don't expect to enjoy _all _of it in the same way that I currently don't enjoy the whole of a 200km audax.
However I would hope to get a feeling of satisfaction from fulfilling a long held ambition,even if that is a delayed reaction as was the case wrt my E2E.
It's a challenge:if it was easy I'd not be interested in the doing of it.


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> You are far better prepared than I was (or indeed am) and a stronger rider to boot.


You do realise you say this to everyone don't you? You really just need a little device where you can push a button......


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## arallsopp (12 Aug 2012)

martint235 said:


> You do realise you say this to everyone don't you? You really just need a little device where you can push a button......



Doesn't make it any less true. Makes it more marvellous that I actually got round in '09, but no less true 

What was I thinking? Well, I probably wasn't, and this (in hindsight) is what makes a ride audacious 

Glad, proud, and amazed I did it, and looking forward to testing my mettle in 2013...

Andy.


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Glad, proud, and amazed I did it, and looking forward to testing my mettle in 2013...
> 
> Andy.


Well I'll be alongside you at the start and I'll wave as you pass me on your way back in the rocket


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## Trickedem (13 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> .
> 
> 50 1/4 hours elapsed time. 460 miles.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ross for a great summary.
Yes it was tough and I certainly never intend to ride so long without at least a little nap. By the time we left Thirsk I was on my last legs and starting to hear a weird commentary in my head on what was going on around me and if it had been dark I am sure I would have nodded off. We did have the relative luxury of having 6 hours sleep once we finally stopped, but it was tough starting out at 4am, although once we got started it wasn't too bad.
I have had issues with losing my appetite on past rides and I think I got it right this time. Although I do remember struggling at the 24 hour petrol station outside Spalding. I try and eat at least every 30 minutes and when I stop I find something salty like crisps is really good. I would second the point about having some proper meals as well. I was definitely sick of cereal bars, sandwiches etc. I don't think this will be an issue on LEL as there is food available at the stops.

I have also found that I can get dehydrated even though I am drinking constantly. When we started after the stop at Scotch Corner I had a headache and realised I was dehydrated. I over compensated by the time I got to Scotland though and was stopping every 20 minutes at one point to answer the call of nature.

No saddlesoreness for me, as I clearly have a Brooks shaped backside, but an expensive pair of shorts I was wearing were chafing my inner thighs. A swap over to some favourite Aldi shorts sorted that out. I also had some problems with my hands and ended up riding without gloves for some time. It made me realise you have to be happy with your clothing over long distances.

The scenery on the route is great and although Yad Moss in Cumbria and Devil's Beeftub outside Moffat were long, they weren't so steep, so it was possible to get into a good rhythm going. We were lucky with the weather though and I expect it could be cold in the wind and rain.

I wasn't sure I could have ridden home, once I arrived, but I did manage to go out to the festival and have a few drinks and watch a show and I only fell asleep once.

It is great to have someone to partner with (Thanks Ross), but you also need to be self reliant and it would be unfair to expect them to wait if you needed an extra stop or a little nap.


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## arallsopp (14 Aug 2012)

Hey! Apparently as of twenty to midnight last night, I've been here 4 years. That's official then, LEL is approaching!


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## Trickedem (14 Aug 2012)

I've just had notification that my 600km has been verified by Audax UK and I am now officially a Super Randonneur for 2012. I told my family of course and you can imagine the response......whatever.


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## martint235 (15 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I've just had notification that my 600km has been verified by Audax UK and I am now officially a Super Randonneur for 2012. I told my family of course and you can imagine the response......whatever.


Congratulations Tim. Well done. Obviously far more committed than some who managed no audax at all let alone an SR! (that'd be me)


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## arallsopp (15 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I've just had notification that my 600km has been verified by Audax UK and I am now officially a Super Randonneur for 2012. I told my family of course and you can imagine the response......whatever.


 
Do you get a badge? Even they would have to acknowledge a badge. Its the 'Blue Peter' effect.


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## frank9755 (15 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Do you get a badge? Even they would have to acknowledge a badge. Its the 'Blue Peter' effect.


There is a very pretty badge


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## StuAff (15 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I've just had notification that my 600km has been verified by Audax UK and I am now officially a Super Randonneur for 2012. I told my family of course and you can imagine the response......whatever.


Bravo!!! A solitary 200 (+1 went off-piste and did my own 200) to my name. I probably could manage 400 if not 600... still want to do a 200 miler this year.


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## ianrauk (15 Aug 2012)

StuAff said:


> Bravo!!! A solitary 200 (+1 went off-piste and did my own 200) to my name. I probably could manage 400 if not 600... still want to do a 200 miler this year.


 

Cycle to London for the Felpham FNRttC...


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## StuAff (15 Aug 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Cycle to London for the Felpham FNRttC...


Apart from that involving taking a day off (and getting a Friday might be a problem), it isn't far enough. Only comes to 168 (did it Good Friday '11). 
Thinking of joining Mart's ride from the smoke for Winchester on the Friday night, then turning south to ride home when the mileage is right. Failing that, I have the week of the Whitstable FNR off, so I might ride up & ride all/part way back to the smoke.


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## martint235 (16 Aug 2012)

StuAff said:


> Apart from that involving taking a day off (and getting a Friday might be a problem), it isn't far enough. Only comes to 168 (did it Good Friday '11).
> Thinking of joining Mart's ride from the smoke for Winchester on the Friday night, then turning south to ride home when the mileage is right. Failing that, I have the week of the Whitstable FNR off, so I might ride up & ride all/part way back to the smoke.


Are you going to ride up to London for the Winchester ride? Otherwise it's not a 200 I'm afraid. It's 75 out and 100 back. I might just get a 200 with home to hpc but I've already got my 200 for the year


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## StuAff (16 Aug 2012)

martint235 said:


> Are you going to ride up to London for the Winchester ride? Otherwise it's not a 200 I'm afraid. It's 75 out and 100 back. I might just get a 200 with home to hpc but I've already got my 200 for the year


Read my post again. I wasn't intending to get a train home


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## arallsopp (16 Aug 2012)

frank9755 said:


> There is a very pretty badge



Damnit Frank. Now *I* want one


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## martint235 (16 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Damnit Frank. Now *I* want one


Me too!! I reckon we've still got time!!


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## iLB (16 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Damnit Frank. Now *I* want one


 
Sorry, members only...


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## Trickedem (16 Aug 2012)

frank9755 said:


> There is a very pretty badge


I shall get the badge, so that if I ever get a Carradice Bag I can attach it to it


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## rb58 (16 Aug 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I shall get the badge, so that if I ever get a Carradice Bag I can attach it to it


You'll have to get a Carradice now. Everyone who does a SR has to have one. It's the law.


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## ianrauk (16 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> You'll have to get a Carradice now. Everyone who does a SR has to have one. It's the law.


 

And don't forget to get a pipe cleaner for each of the hubs... infact rb58... you need to sort that out for yourself..


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## middleagecyclist (16 Aug 2012)

rb58 said:


> You'll have to get a Carradice now. Everyone who does a SR has to have one. It's the law.


Damn. I was going to use a rack pack for my SR and the LEL. Do you reeaallly have to sport a Carradice?


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## martint235 (16 Aug 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> Damn. I was going to use a rack pack for my SR and the LEL. Do you reeaallly have to sport a Carradice?


Yep. You don't think I'd voluntarily lumber Lelly with a Carradice otherwise do you? (oh and they're made in Nelson and Nelson really, really, really needs all the support it can get)


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## middleagecyclist (16 Aug 2012)

martint235 said:


> Yep. You don't think I'd voluntarily lumber Lelly with a Carradice otherwise do you? (oh and they're made in Nelson and Nelson really, really, really needs all the support it can get)


Oh I s'pose I can have a look at them if they are de rigueur then. Will I be looked down upon by died in the wool audaxers if I don't have one? 

I might be cycling through Nelson tomorrow on a 100 miler but looking at the forecast I might cut it short a bit (or even a lot!).

Do you use a QR or a rack for your Carradice?


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## PpPete (16 Aug 2012)

Nobody looks down on anyone for having different kit really. If you want to use a rack pack , go ahead !
But a Carradice Barley is a thing of much beauty... (until you sew a sodding great "SR" cloth badge on it like I've done !)
I've found that its 7 litres is too big for a 200 though - just encourages me to carry too much stuff. On a 400 or 600, complemented by a tiny (2 litre) bar bag it's close to perfection.
The 4.5 litre R&K Contour Mudguard is perfect for shorter rides, and it's cantilevered frame and seat-post attachment makes a very good support for the Barley (or larger models of Carradice) - lighter and fewer failure modes than the Bagman supports. It's not QR though.


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## middleagecyclist (16 Aug 2012)

PpPete said:


> But a Carradice Barley is a thing of much beauty...


Will it go well with the Paul Hewitt Chiltern (in red) I intend to get next year? (Sshh! Don't tell the wifey).


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## PpPete (16 Aug 2012)

well you should have said it was a Hewitt.....
Yes Carradice is the law after all !


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## Nuncio (17 Aug 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> Will I be looked down upon by died in the wool audaxers if I don't have one?


This is all confused. The 'looking down' and 'wool' is more associated with Rapha not homely old cotton-duck Carradice. If you listen very hard you may hear some tutting, though.



middleagecyclist said:


> Do you use a QR or a rack for your Carradice?


Neither, a Bagman which does have a simple quick release mechanism but is not known as frequently as being quick release as SQR. (Now I'm confused).


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## yello (17 Aug 2012)

I used a rack pack on LEL 2009.... but it was a Carradice rack pack  Actually, it was someone on CC that *gave* it to me. Top chap eh? 

Honestly, I reckon it swings and roundabouts re rack pack v saddle pack. Probably the most influential factor is which your bike will take!


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

yello said:


> Honestly, I reckon it swings and roundabouts re rack pack v saddle pack. Probably the most influential factor is which your bike will take!


But I've yet to get _The_ bike. Surely I should choose the best bag and then get the bike and fittings to go with it?

Now, I can appreciate Cotton Duck as a material but all those leather straps and metal buckles and rings seems...well, just a bit past it to me *covers head*. What's wrong with having some plastic fastenings such as those on the Carradice Super C Audax Saddlebag?


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## alans (17 Aug 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> But I've yet to get _The_ bike. *Surely I should choose the best bag and then get the bike and fittings to go with it?*
> 
> Now, I can appreciate Cotton Duck as a material but all those leather straps and metal buckles and rings seems...well, just a bit past it to me *covers head*. What's wrong with having some plastic fastenings such as those on the Carradice Super C Audax Saddlebag?


 
excellent logic

Not only do you need a Carradice saddlebag but also some sandals & a beard.


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

alans said:


> excellent logic
> 
> Not only do you need a Carradice saddlebag but also some sandals & a beard.


The wifey has banned my beard in the past but sandals...now there's a thought!


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## pkeenan (17 Aug 2012)

Putting aside what's 'done' etc, the Carradice saddle bags certainly appeal because you can find the ideal size in their range, and it doesn't require a rack. I plan to have one saddle bag and a bar bag. Bar bag for wallet, phone, (possibly gps,) maps, and any other things (camera and snacks!). The saddle bag will be for carrying the extra layers of clothes, the spare tubes, tyre levers and pump, and that's about it.
Carrying so little in the back makes me feel it's not necessary to put on a rack, considering how light and compact that list will be. Carradice is the perfect solution!

The only thing I'm yet to decide is which bike to use... Pros and cons to each.


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## arallsopp (17 Aug 2012)

One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that sporting a Carradice bag is an act of benevolence, with advantage conferred not just to you, but also the rider(s) behind.

Picture the scene... Its dark, its been raining solid for 4 hours, you've not seen a control for a while, there's been a dodgy turn instruction nagging at your mind for the last 8 miles. As the road starts to climb you spy a lonely tail light weaving up the road ahead. It could be a local drunk on his way back from the pub, it could be your mind playing tricks, it could be a willo-the-wisp, luring you into a lifetime of bike less servitude. Apprehension builds. Legs hurt. And then, you come a little closer, there's something nuzzling against the light. A little silver diamond shines hope back at you. A Carradice. You're on track. All is well.

Andy.


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## alans (17 Aug 2012)

that's very good Andy,testimony that you retain your literary talent


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

arallsopp said:


> One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that sporting a Carradice bag is an act of benevolence, with advantage conferred not just to you, but also the rider(s) behind...there's something nuzzling against the light. A little silver diamond shines hope back at you. A Carradice. You're on track. All is well.
> Andy.


I hate to point this to one so esteemed, but the Carrdice Super C Audax Saddlebag (with plastic connectors) doesn't have a little reflective diamond on the back. Does this model not count then?


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## mcshroom (17 Aug 2012)

If you want buckles then how about a super c barley - link


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

mcshroom said:


> If you want buckles then how about a super c barley - link


It doesn't have a diamond either


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

Actually, looking at the pics and dimensions I think the Super C Barley and the Super C Audax are the same bag. Anyway, the niggle remains. Does a 'proper' Carradice have to sport a diamond reflective patch? I need to know!


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## zigzag (17 Aug 2012)

it doesn't matter if a bag has reflectives or not - if you can figure out that it's a cyclist in the front (on a cold and rainy night in the middle of nowhere), you can be sure it's an audaxer. but whether he is on the right track - you can never be sure!


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## middleagecyclist (17 Aug 2012)

zigzag said:


> it doesn't matter if a bag has reflectives or not - if you can figure out that it's a cyclist in the front (on a cold and rainy night in the middle of nowhere), you can be sure it's an audaxer. but whether *he* is on the right track - you can never be sure!


What are you suggesting? Is Audax-ing a purely male pastime?


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## zigzag (17 Aug 2012)

should have been he/she (but very small number of female riders doing long rides unfortunately, so most likely - he )


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## alans (17 Aug 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> Actually, looking at the pics and dimensions I think the Super C Barley and the Super C Audax are the same bag. Anyway, the niggle remains. *Does a 'proper' Carradice have to sport a diamond reflective patch? I need to know![/*quote]
> 
> yes


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## frank9755 (18 Aug 2012)

Joking and bantering apart, people do look at these posts for info, so I'd have to say audax is the most tolerant form of cycling I've found with the broadest range of bikes and equipment on display. No-one minds what you do or don't have. And that includes the guys from Rapha, who have been a great addition to the audax scene over the last couple of years and excellent PR for their company. They gave me a wonderful tow for five miles into Malmesbury last year and gave PBP entrants a discount on their kit!


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## yello (18 Aug 2012)

frank9755 said:


> They gave me a wonderful tow for five miles into Malmesbury last year and* gave PBP entrants a discount on their kit*!


 
They did indeed. And a very fine jersey it is too.... even if I was welcomed to Brest by someone with the words "ah, someone else with more money than sense"!


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## alans (4 Sep 2012)

I have decided not to ride


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## mcshroom (4 Sep 2012)

alans said:


> I have decided not to ride





I assume that's just LEL not riding in general


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## yello (4 Sep 2012)

and I'm still undecided! Plenty of time to change your mind alans!


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## alans (4 Sep 2012)

mcshroom said:


> I assume that's just LEL not riding in general


 
I have made a decision to not ride audax calander events for the foreseeable future.The focus of my riding will be those rides I can start from home & occassionaly rides starting close to home involving minimum expenditure
The British Cycle Quest & the judicious use of trains plus audax DIY & Perms will be my cycling diet.


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## alans (4 Sep 2012)

yello said:


> and I'm still undecided! Plenty of time to change your mind alans!


 
A change of mind is extremely unlikely.There are non-cycling related circumstances involved.


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## Mr Bunbury (4 Sep 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> But I've yet to get _The_ bike. Surely I should choose the best bag and then get the bike and fittings to go with it?
> 
> Now, I can appreciate Cotton Duck as a material but all those leather straps and metal buckles and rings seems...well, just a bit past it to me *covers head*. What's wrong with having some plastic fastenings such as those on the Carradice Super C Audax Saddlebag?


 
The Super C is too big for LEL. Seriously, it'll only encourage you to carry too much stuff, and then to waste time faffing around with too much stuff at the controls. 

The size down, the Nelson, is the biggest I'd consider for Audax. I've done week+ credit card tours with mine without a problem, and have generally downsized to an Ortlieb saddlebag for audaxes up to PBP, using the Carradice if I've needed an extra change of clothes at the end or whatever. 

Seriously, far more people wish they'd brought less stuff than wish they'd brought more. As for bikes, your 'light bike' should be ideal unless it's a super-aggressive criterium bike. The idea that you need a slow, heavy bike for audax is one I've never been able to fathom.


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## jefmcg (4 Sep 2012)

I'm confused. The super c audax linked about is 9 litres. The nelson is 15.

The standard super c is 23 litres.

Personally, I'd avoid carradice with plastic buckles. I managed to destroy a maxi saddle pack in six months of commuting; http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/carradura-maxi-saddlepack.96390/


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## martint235 (5 Sep 2012)

I've got a Nelson. I've used it for 5 day trips with changes of clothes etc, there's more than enough room for LEL I think. I'm only planning on taking batteries and a change of kit.


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## PpPete (5 Sep 2012)

Based on 600 km experience I see no reason to go beyond my Barley (9 litres) and tiny (2.5 litre) barbag. 
Don't forget there are drop-bag facilities on LEL, IIRC it's one included, one extra if you want to pay more, so you almost don't need to carry a change of kit.


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## martint235 (5 Sep 2012)

I'm not going to bother with a bag drop. It's only 5 days. Usual repair stuff, spare kit and some batteries and I think I'm set.


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## jefmcg (5 Sep 2012)

Help! I've started following this thread because I'm strangely intrigue by this race, and realise if I don't do it next year, I'll have to wait 5 years (from now) and that there is a lot of interest, so I'll have to sign up as soon as entries open. And it's not going to be cheap if I have an entry that I don't use.

So how can I work out if I can do this? I've never done an Audax and only done one century (pootled Dunwich Dynamo in 12 hours roughly elapsed time on my 16" folder). When I do a solo 60km loop - mostly flat - strava puts my moving average just above 20kmh. I suspect not everyone's body is capable of doing 280km/day for 5 days (have I got the daily distance right?), or is that something I can get to in a year. I've been averaging somewhere been 100-300km/week for the eighteen months, so despite my slow average, I am as fit as I've ever been on a bicycle. I'm female and inarguably middle aged, if that matters: certainly it argues against waiting for 2017.

thanks

(I've got a barley saddle bag, and a new road bike so it's just me to sort out!)


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## martint235 (5 Sep 2012)

I wouldn't be too worried about getting a place. (Or at least I've been told not to worry). A lot of the people interested may decide they have things much more interesting to do with those 5 days.

To prepare I think you need to be sure you can do the following but this is only my opinion:

1. A solo ride through the night (although technically you don't need to ride at night for LEL)
2. Back to back centuries. There's a big difference in riding 200 miles in a day and riding 100 miles on day one and then getting on your bike again the day after to do another 100. Once you've done this scaling up shouldn't be too difficult.
3. I'd also suggest riding for 24 hours without sleep just to find out how you cope. Drowsy, grumpy, dispirited etc, you could get any or all of them. Once you know what to expect, it'll be easier to deal with. I tend to get grumpy and stubborn.


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## PpPete (6 Sep 2012)

If you can hold that 20 kph moving average for 5 x 14 hours riding you'll be fine.
At least that what I'm hoping...


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## jefmcg (7 Sep 2012)

martint235 said:


> I wouldn't be too worried about getting a place. (Or at least I've been told not to worry). A lot of the people interested may decide they have things much more interesting to do with those 5 days.
> 
> To prepare I think you need to be sure you can do the following but this is only my opinion:
> 
> ...


Thanks.

Got a loooooooonnnnnnnggggggg way to go.

I've done #1. DunRun was effectively solo, especially as I skipped the official stop - certainly more so than LEL.

I thought I'd take advantage of a period of job hunting to try #2. Had the plan to cycle to Brighton yesterday and then turn around and head back until I hit 100 miles. I felt fine when I got to Brighton, but I didn't feel like any more cycling. OK, so let's try back to back _metric_ centuries. Nup, my legs would have none of it, I ended up stopping for a coffee, and having a general pootle, covering about 25 km all up.

At least I know where I stand. Now I have to work out if I am physically capable getting to that sort of mileage, and if I want to work that hard. So different from Dunwich Dynamo, where i knew I could muddle through. You can't pull 1400km out of your ar5e.


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## JoeyB (7 Sep 2012)

Hi all,

I first heard about the LEL approximately two days ago! So I did some Googling and landed on this forum.

I have an increasing itch to buy a road bike, then when I read about this event I found the itch has turned into a necessity that must be addressed!

I currently have an MTB with road tyres, I've used this to complete a couple of 100KM events (IOW Randonee 2010 / 2011) but thats about it. (I won't go into new bike selection advice, I'll save that for the correct section of this forum)

Fitness levels are fairly good, not sure that its relevant but currently training for the Great South Run and a Half Marathon shortly after that. Already up to 9 mile runs after 4 weeks of training.

So, my question:

I need a training goal for 2013, would it be completely mad and stupid of me to set myself the goal of taking part in the 2013 LEL, assuming I buy a road bike in the next month or two and starting preparation?

I'd like to think its highly ambitious but not impossible. I've noted the pre-reqs above, I will incorporate them all into my preparation! I'm under no illusions that this will be an easy task, or very enjoyable for that matter, but the feeling of satisfaction once the brusing has gone away will be amazing I'm sure.


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## frank9755 (7 Sep 2012)

JoeyB said:


> I need a training goal for 2013, would it be completely mad and stupid of me to set myself the goal of taking part in the 2013 LEL, assuming I buy a road bike in the next month or two and starting preparation?


 
Any reasonably fit person who has done a bit of cycling should be able to manage it. Long distance cycling is more of a mental thing than a physical thing: it comes down to whether you want to do it. That means no-one else can tell you!

One thought - don't rush out and buy a bike designed for racing 50 miles on if your main intended use is a 1400km audax.


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## JoeyB (7 Sep 2012)

Cheers Frank,

I just felt I needed to ask the question in case I'd missed something other than it being a mental battle!

Yes, I'm not interested in a race replica, I want something thats better suited for distance. I'm thinking a budget of £1,000 and I want Shimano 105 all round. I'm still knowledge gathering on that front though and I'm at the stage I just need to get to my LBS and ride some bikes!

The Boardman in Halfords for £999 seems a good deal, not sure if its more racey though.


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## martint235 (7 Sep 2012)

Definitely try to take the bike for a test ride. 1400km is a long way to go on a bike that makes you uncomfortable after 50km.


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## arallsopp (7 Sep 2012)

jefmcg said:


> Help! I've started following this thread because I'm strangely intrigue by this race [...] So how can I work out if I can do this? I've never done an Audax and only done one century (pootled Dunwich Dynamo in 12 hours roughly elapsed time on my 16" folder).


 



JoeyB said:


> Hi all,
> I first heard about the LEL approximately two days ago! So I did some Googling and landed on this forum [...] would it be completely mad and stupid of me to set myself the goal of taking part in the 2013 LEL, assuming I buy a road bike in the next month or two and starting preparation?


 

At risk of self promotion, I asked very similar questions last time around: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lel-training-advice.18525/
As for whether its possible, the write up of my ride is here: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/seeya-arallsopp-does-the-lel.35203/

If you have the endurance to wade through the latter link, you've got the spirit for the ride down pat


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## ianrauk (8 Sep 2012)

And seeing as Andy has not added a link to his book about his LEL Adventure.
I will instead.
...Barring Mechanicals..From London To Edinburg and back, on a recumbent bicycle. Available at Amazon *HERE*


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## arallsopp (8 Sep 2012)

ianrauk said:


> And seeing as Andy has not added a link to his book about his LEL Adventure.
> I will instead.
> ...Barring Mechanicals..From London To Edinburg and back, on a recumbent bicycle. Available at Amazon *HERE*


 
Cheers Ian. Self promotion, by proxy


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## Flying Dodo (8 Sep 2012)

ianrauk said:


> And seeing as Andy has not added a link to his book about his LEL Adventure.
> I will instead.
> ...Barring Mechanicals..From London To Edinburg and back, on a recumbent bicycle. Available at Amazon *HERE*


 
I wanted to take a copy with me on holiday in July - but no Kindle version available.


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## arallsopp (8 Sep 2012)

Flying Dodo said:


> I wanted to take a copy with me on holiday in July - but no Kindle version available.


Actually, there is a Kindle version around. Long Martin has the only copy though. If Amazon would buck their ideas up and let me make it available, I would.... I still might, anyway


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Actually, there is a Kindle version around. Long Martin has the only copy though. If Amazon would buck their ideas up and let me make it available, I would.... I still might, anyway


I'm happy to sell it to other people!!


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## frank9755 (9 Sep 2012)

JoeyB said:


> The Boardman in Halfords for £999 seems a good deal, not sure if its more racey though.


 
Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't! 

By going out and looking at possible answers before working out what the question is, you make it more likely that you'll get a bike that isn't right for what you want.

It's best to start by working out what bike geometry you need. Once you know that, you can look at frames that catch your eye to assess whether they can be adapted to fit you - using the right stems, seatposts, and other adjustments. 

How do you work that out? You could either have a fitting (but make sure it is with someone who understands long distance cycling which will rule out most bike shops!) or work it out for yourself by getting a cheap bike, doing research and experimenting. The complication though, is that your ideal fit changes as you ride more, get fitter, get more flexible and get to know what you like and can't put up with. Therefore, a bike that seems right now is very likely not to be right by the time you start LEL. 

Therefore I'd recommend that, rather than spending a lot of money now, you would be better to get a cheap / second hand bike, do some research, set it up how you think is right, ride it a lot, adjust things depending on how it goes, then have a fitting and choose a compatible frame. For LEL and audax in general, selection of groupset is probably not as important as getting the right bar tape!


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## JoeyB (9 Sep 2012)

Cheers for the comments chaps. 

Andy, I've just read the first 5 posts on your first link and I can't help that think you were in exactly the same boat as me when you started training for your first LEL, even down to the bit about having an 8 month old baby to work around.... Scary! Has inspired me to get a little bit more serious about doing this though. 

Frank, thanks for the info... I had gone out looking at bikes in my price range when I got the first itch for a road bike...since then I had stopped looking and started doing my research into what I should be looking for, a fitting is definitely the next step.


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## frank9755 (9 Sep 2012)

If you ride a bit before you get a fitting, you'll get more out of it than if you do it now. For example, you will be able to tell the fitter what discomfort you get after a longish ride, and he can make the right adjustments to compensate.


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## JoeyB (9 Sep 2012)

Frank, think I can already answer that from my isle of wight 100km rides.... The saddle!


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## arallsopp (9 Sep 2012)

LOL. Sounds like youre doing it right. Be out there. Come in here. Build friendships, experience, confidence. You have great adventures ahead.


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## frank9755 (9 Sep 2012)

Yes - sounds like you have some material for a good discussion!


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## PpPete (9 Sep 2012)

Lots of info about bikes for touring /audax / sportive here


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## zigzag (10 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Actually, there is a Kindle version around. Long Martin has the only copy though. If Amazon would buck their ideas up and let me make it available, I would.... I still might, anyway


 
you can get someone to convert .pdf or .doc(x) file of your book into .mobi (i'd search for a deal on fiverr.com), then you submit the ebook file to https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/signin. (unless amazon doesn't want it to be available for other reasons?). hth


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## PpPete (10 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> At risk of self promotion, I asked very similar questions last time around: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lel-training-advice.18525/
> As for whether its possible, the write up of my ride is here: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/seeya-arallsopp-does-the-lel.35203/
> 
> If you have the endurance to wade through the latter link, you've got the spirit for the ride down pat


 
Have just re-read through the latter link, ( I know, should have bought the book, sorry Andy)
Astonishing how much of my first reading of it - before I ever did my first 100km Audax - has "stuck" in the mind....example: when I drive to events I triple check that the SPD shoes are in the car.
But also how much it has worked on my sub-conscious, driving me to complete that first 100km, my first 200, the hope that one day I might just be good enough to think about 2013, my first SR, the loss of all sense of proportion about what constitutes a "long" ride, and so on.
Thank you again Andy !


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## martint235 (10 Sep 2012)

Ditto. I used to think 40 miles was a long way until I met Andy


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## JoeyB (10 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> At risk of self promotion, I asked very similar questions last time around: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lel-training-advice.18525/
> As for whether its possible, the write up of my ride is here: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/seeya-arallsopp-does-the-lel.35203/
> 
> If you have the endurance to wade through the latter link, you've got the spirit for the ride down pat



Ok, just finished reading the latter link... Inspired is not the word!

I love the idea of my first Audax being the LEL 2013. I also think I've managed to bag a riding partner which is a result as I was prepared to go solo and pick up friends along the way. Going to get fitted on Saturday I think, then start looking at bikes after that. Can't wait to start training, just need to get the Great South Run and a Half Marathon out of the way first!


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## Pato Donald (17 Sep 2012)

Hello to all from California! I came across this thread while researching the LEL and have to say this is the nicest forum I've ever seen on the internet! My intent is to do the ride so if you're still adding names to the map, go ahead and put me on so you can double the amount of Yanks you have! I have a TON of questions, but I'll try to find as many answers as I can in various threads so as not to be too much of a nuisance. Still, I'm sure I'll ask things that have been answered many times over so I apologize in advance. I've never done any serious cycling before, so this is a bit of a big undertaking for me. 

A little about me, I'm a former runner who keeps getting injured, so I've decided to switch to cycling for the next few months while my body heals from the pounding of running so it can take on the pounding of cycling! 

Also, many thanks to arallsopp for his great write-up of the '09 event! I read each of his posts with great interest. I've thought about buying the book as well! Surely good authors like a bit of financial support for their efforts!


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## mcshroom (17 Sep 2012)

PpPete said:


> Astonishing how much of my first reading of it - before I ever did my first 100km Audax - has "stuck" in the mind....example: when I drive to events I triple check that the SPD shoes are in the car.



I wish that had stuck in mine - finding out an hour into the journey is not fun. DAHIKT


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## JoeyB (17 Sep 2012)

Hi fella, I also found this forum whilst searching for LEL on Google. I also mirror your comments about the forum and arallsopp's write up! Simply inspiring...


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## PpPete (18 Sep 2012)

mcshroom said:


> I wish that had stuck in mine - finding out an hour into the journey is not fun. DAHIKT


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## PpPete (18 Sep 2012)

Wouldn't want to seem disloyal to Cyclechat, so I shall whisper this.....there is a whole sub-board devoted to LEL with already lots of questions posed and answered over on YACF
Welcome to Pato Donald and Joey B !


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## JoeyB (18 Sep 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wouldn't want to seem disloyal to Cyclechat, so I shall whisper this.....there is a whole sub-board devoted to LEL with already lots of questions posed and answered over on YACF
> Welcome to Pato Donald and Joey B !



Hehe, cheers Pete. I did actually stumble across that forum too. It will save me asking some questions here, for sure. I like it here though :-)


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## mcshroom (18 Sep 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wouldn't want to seem disloyal to Cyclechat, so I shall whisper this.....there is a whole sub-board devoted to LEL with already lots of questions posed and answered over on YACF
> Welcome to Pato Donald and Joey B !



It even covers valve caps


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## Pato Donald (18 Sep 2012)

mcshroom said:


> It even covers valve caps


 
Thanks so much for the help to PpPete! I promise not to tell anyone on this forum about your treason! 

This is the in-depth valve cap discussion I've been waiting for all my life! Thanks everyone!


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## arallsopp (19 Sep 2012)

zigzag said:


> you can get someone to convert .pdf or .doc(x) file of your book into .mobi (i'd search for a deal on fiverr.com), then you submit the ebook file to https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/signin. (unless amazon doesn't want it to be available for other reasons?). hth


 
Thanks. The above (plus a final 10 minutes to squeeze the bl00dy thing through) has resulted in the Kindle edition seemingly being listed at amazon. Oh my. I'm famous. All over again


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## martint235 (19 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Thanks. The above (plus a final 10 minutes to squeeze the bl00dy thing through) has resulted in the Kindle edition seemingly being listed at amazon. Oh my. I'm famous. All over again


Does this mean I'm not special anymore?


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## oldfatfool (19 Sep 2012)

martint235 said:


> Does this mean I'm not special anymore?


 
Of course not, you have a certificate and everything


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## arallsopp (19 Sep 2012)

martint235 said:


> Does this mean I'm not special anymore?


You are a beautiful and unique snowflake.


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## StuAff (19 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Thanks. The above (plus a final 10 minutes to squeeze the bl00dy thing through) has resulted in the Kindle edition seemingly being listed at amazon. Oh my. I'm famous. All over again


I have the Kindle Mac app (bought some Scottish bloke's bike training manual while it was on special offer). Have a few dead-tree books to get through first, but might finally get your tome after that...


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## martint235 (20 Sep 2012)

arallsopp said:


> You are a beautiful and unique snowflake.


I've never, ever been called a snowflake before. With the direction my weight is heading, I'm a pretty, heavy snowflake


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## JoeyB (25 Sep 2012)

What bike do people plan to use for LEL 2013?
It might help me make a decision on which bike to get!


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## martint235 (25 Sep 2012)

JoeyB said:


> What bike do people plan to use for LEL 2013?
> It might help me make a decision on which bike to get!


 I'm taking Lelly which was bought specifically for LEL. It's a Planet X (or Van Nicholas really) titanium sportive. I'll have a Nelson longflap carradice on it with tools and batteries. I'm not sure of the gearing yet but will probably leave as is (53/39 - 25/11)


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## middleagecyclist (25 Sep 2012)

I plan to get fitted for a Paul Hewitt Chiltern in the Spring for use on my 600k and LEL. It will be red and sporting a Carradice of some description.


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## mcshroom (25 Sep 2012)

I've said I'm not riding, but if I do then it will be either on a Dawes Horizon with a rack pack and rear rack, or a 1980s Raleigh Criterium (Reynolds 501 frame) with a bagman and carradice of some description.

Gearing on either will be 48-38-28 front and 11-28 or 11-32 rear.


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## PpPete (25 Sep 2012)

VN Yukon with Campag Race triple, handbuilt wheels (dyno front), Brooks Swift Saddle, Carradice Barley on a R&K Contour support (lighter than a Bagman) - all fully tested on this year's SR series.
Experimenting with some cut down Airstryke clip-on aero bars at the moment (thanks Montage), need some more miles on them before I make a final decision as to whether to include in the LEL configuration, but early indications are they are good for a radical change of hand position, and a speed boost on the flatlands that make up most of the southern half of the route.


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## frank9755 (25 Sep 2012)

Plan A has been my Hewitt Carbon Audax bike which I got for PBP and was just the job. 
But I'm toying with the idea of plan B: my old TT bike, a Cannondale Six13 Slice. It's set up with the bars nice and high and is both comfortable and fast. I've tried it out on my last couple of 200s and it's been great fun.


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## zigzag (25 Sep 2012)

frank9755 said:


> But I'm toying with the idea of plan B: my old TT bike, a Cannondale Six13 Slice. It's set up with the bars nice and high and is both comfortable and fast.


 
i can't see why not - stick a carradice saddlebag on, mudguards if the forecast is wet and off you go! (i had a hard time keeping up with you lot last saturday)


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## Dan_h (26 Sep 2012)

I have a bike related question, my main road bike is a singlespeed giant. I have ridden 180k in a day on it, but not easily. It is geared at about 74" at the moment. If I geared it down (say 64") would this be okay to do LEL on or would I be better off investing in a bike with some gears? Do people do LEL on singlesped bikes??

The bike is comfortable, just overgeared for long rides at the moment (I do 100k on it with no issues fairly regularly).

Any opinions?


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## mcshroom (26 Sep 2012)

Some do it fixed, but as the terrain varies from long flat sections (where a 64" feels very spinney, I use that gear on my commuter) to climbing through the Pennines and Southern Uplands, I'd be tempted to either get a geared bike or fit a hub gear to your current bike it it were me.

As I said though, it can and is be done in a single gear


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## Pato Donald (26 Sep 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Some do it fixed, but as the terrain varies from long flat sections (where a 64" feels very spinney, I use that gear on my commuter) to climbing through the Pennines and Southern Uplands, I'd be tempted to either get a geared bike or fit a hub gear to your current bike it it were me.
> 
> As I said though, it can and is be done in a single gear


 
That's so crazy that people do this ride on fixed! Are they mad? 

What would be the most comfortable way to do this ride, recumbent? Car?


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## middleagecyclist (27 Sep 2012)

Right. Training help please.

I did start a seperate thread to ask this but haven't had any replies at all. 

My first, and so far only, Audax of 200 km was done last yr and i'm now really planning for LEL. I regularly ride 60 - 100 miles at a time but have difficulty entering a lot of calendar events due to shift work and family commitments. I have a 300 km DIY ride planned for November/December and will also squeeze in at least one 200 km ride but I really want to do 400 and 600 km _calendar_ event at least once each before the LEL.

I would hope to do these near (ish) to Manchester and looking at the Audax UK site I am quite taken with the Llanfairpwllgwyngyll gogerychwyrndrobwll llantysiliogogogoch 400 on 25th May 2013 and the 3 Coasts 600 on 8th June 2013. I am wondering though if these dates might be a bit too close together and also if I should be doing something 400+ km long earlier than two months before the LEL?

I will be booking annual leave for any events in 2013 so shifts will not be a problem and my wife is very supportive re family commitments. Any suggestions for other 400 and 600 km events would therefore be very much appreciated.

Thanks


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## tubbycyclist (27 Sep 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> I would hope to do these near (ish) to Manchester and looking at the Audax UK site I am quite taken with the Llanfairpwllgwyngyll gogerychwyrndrobwll llantysiliogogogoch 400 on 25th May 2013 and the 3 Coasts 600 on 8th June 2013.


 
Both good rides in my opinion - the LLPG400 had a 9am start this year, which means you are pretty much guaranteed riding through the night unless you're very quick indeed. Good practice to test out kit and dealing with sleep deprivation. On the way out it is a laney mixture with a couple of feature climbs thrown in, and then predominantly easy navigation on the way back, with the exception of one very short section that you use to avoid the A55.

Three Coasts 600 - has lots of support provided. A 375km loop out to the East Coast and back to base for pasta and crumble at 2.30am served by very helpful volunteers. A hall to grab some sleep in, and even nominated wake up times before being plied with breakfast and sent off for the next 225km. Think it was all you can eat for £5 for all weekend this year. Recommended. Expect that the LEL controls will be along these lines.



middleagecyclist said:


> I am wondering though if these dates might be a bit too close together and also if I should be doing something 400+ km long earlier than two months before the LEL?


 
That is one of those "it depends" questions but I would not have thought it would make too much difference - the consensus in this thread seems to be to treat LEL as a series of 300km rides and make sure you are comfortable doing a few of those back to back. I have not done it (yet!) so I will bow to that experience. If you have got the fitness then in my view completing a 400 and 600 are partly about addressing the mental challenges, and getting kit and comfort right to deal with the variation in conditions that you get over 40 hours.


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## middleagecyclist (27 Sep 2012)

Thanks for your detailed reply TC. Very helpful. Cheers.


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## PpPete (28 Sep 2012)

I think TC is right. Did my first SR this year, and will aim to do another next year before LEL, but the focus in the Spring and early Summer will definitely be on riding back-to-back 200s and 300s, as my limited experience tells me that my speed after a short overnight stop drops dramatically. I'm not even that great with a full night's sleep... did a DIY 200 the day after the IOW Randonnee (100km) this year and found that harder than it should have been.


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## martint235 (28 Sep 2012)

I still haven't done back to back centuries which is a concern. I know that the day after riding London - Nelson I felt shattered and didn't get on the bike at all. I'm determined not to let winter change my riding too much and may do London - Nelson again but find a century (possibly over the Pennines) for the following day.


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## ComedyPilot (29 Sep 2012)

Hmmmm...........
Less than a year to go......
Should I?
Shouldn't I?

I normally ride fully loaded touring about 60-95 miles a day for 2-3 weeks on tour, so lose the weight and increase the miles/time in saddle and decrease the days to do it?

Arch pop me down on the map as a possible/maybe - location Driffield, East Yorks

Ta muchly


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## JoeyB (29 Sep 2012)

What's this map then? Add me, add me!


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## PpPete (29 Sep 2012)

JoeyB said:


> What's this map then? Add me, add me!


 
See the first post on page 1 of this thread


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## JoeyB (29 Sep 2012)

Cheers fella.

Done.


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## Mad Doug Biker (30 Sep 2012)

I will only know if I am able to do it after I have my (actually pretty major) surgery next month, and even then I probably won't be on a bike for a while, so, if you are already out there cycling and have nothing between now and August, then I'm sure you'll be ok!! - Better than me anyway, so stop fannying about and get on with it, that's an order!!


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## PpPete (30 Sep 2012)

jahowl herr commandant !


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## ComedyPilot (30 Sep 2012)

Looking at the ride, I imagine setting off and there being a ghostly line on the road following at 12km/h, all the way to Edinburgh, and all the way back. From the moment the gun goes or a man in a mayor's regalia waves a flag that line sets off and does NOT stop. To finish in time you have to go to all the checkpoints and have your card stamped and get to Edinburgh and back before the line.......

It's a real mind-game one this.......


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## frank9755 (30 Sep 2012)

Dan_h said:


> I have a bike related question, my main road bike is a singlespeed giant. I have ridden 180k in a day on it, but not easily. It is geared at about 74" at the moment. If I geared it down (say 64") would this be okay to do LEL on or would I be better off investing in a bike with some gears? Do people do LEL on singlesped bikes??
> 
> The bike is comfortable, just overgeared for long rides at the moment (I do 100k on it with no issues fairly regularly).
> 
> Any opinions?



As Mcshroom says, you'd be likely to want different gears for north and south, so having two cogs and flipping the wheel would make a lot of sense.


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## frank9755 (30 Sep 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> Right. Training help please.
> 
> I did start a seperate thread to ask this but haven't had any replies at all.
> 
> ...



Everyone's recovery time is different but the rule of thumb is that it takes a month to fully get over a big ride and be back to peak. If the 400 takes a lot out of you and you are shattered at the end, you might then find the 600 a bit harder going than if you'd had a bit more recovery. But you won't know until you try it and it is not an unreasonable thing to attempt. 

FWIW I did a 400 this summer then a 600 two weeks later and it was fine


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## PpPete (30 Sep 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Looking at the ride, I imagine setting off and there being a ghostly line on the road following at 12km/h, all the way to Edinburgh, and all the way back. From the moment the gun goes or a man in a mayor's regalia waves a flag that line sets off and does NOT stop. To finish in time you have to go to all the checkpoints and have your card stamped and get to Edinburgh and back before the line.......
> 
> It's a real mind-game one this.......


 
You are assuming your mind will still be working after that many consecutive long days on the road ?
May not be everyone's cup of tea, but once the route is finalized and the GPX tracks published I will be building a time-sheet on Excel which takes account of allocated start time, kilometres, mtrs of ascent, time @ controls, an allowance for mechanicals, and a gradual slowing down from "almost respectable pace" on day 1, through "bloody slow", right down to "arthritic snail" by the end.
That plan will be then be reduced to a scheduled arrival time and departure time at each control, which in a sleep deprived state we can still just about relate to, and figure how much of our "contingency" has been burned up.


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## oldfatfool (30 Sep 2012)

Never done over 200km in one shot but like CP have done fully loaded touring with 20 consec days of 80 ~ 140 km with considerable height gain thrown into the equation. Was thinking along the lines of riding 6am to 8pm ish with a lunch stop then kipping down for a full nights nod. Will be on Bluesy the Panorama.


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## Nebulous (30 Sep 2012)

I wish people would stop posting on this thread! It has become one of the first things I look at now on cyclechat - and I really want to do it. Goodness knows why, mainly because its there, but I can see it gaining momentum, until I'm too committed to back out.


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## ComedyPilot (30 Sep 2012)

Well, you now have only 7212.5 hours to prepare for the hardest 116 hours cycling of your life - or 300 days and a few hours in old money


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## ComedyPilot (30 Sep 2012)

oldfatfool said:


> Never done over 200km in one shot but like CP have done fully loaded touring with 20 consec days of 80 ~ 140 km with considerable height gain thrown into the equation. *Was thinking along the lines of riding 6am to 8pm* ish with a lunch stop then kipping down for a full nights nod. Will be on Bluesy the Panorama.


I think I may use similar tactics, but do at least 1 through-the-night into the afternoon/evening run to get a good 4/5 hour kip


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## JoeyB (30 Sep 2012)

Im thinking ride through the night on the first night.... Make the most of the fresh legs!i


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## martint235 (30 Sep 2012)

JoeyB said:


> Im thinking ride through the night on the first night.... Make the most of the fresh legs!i


That's plan A. Plan A goes on to say I'll be at the border before I sleep. There will be a plan B though.

All plans involve eating at every opportunity. Having suffered on the trip up north, I won't be thinking "Oh there'll be food just along here"


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## mcshroom (30 Sep 2012)

Bar bag full of bite sized foods is very good for that. Also it can be useful to pack savoury stuff as well as sweet. I find eventually on long rides I don't want sugar, I want something like a sandwich.


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## JoeyB (1 Oct 2012)

Jam sandwiches a plenty!

I'm a savoury person myself, if I can do the ride on pork pies I would!


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## martint235 (1 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Bar bag full of bite sized foods is very good for that. Also it can be useful to pack savoury stuff as well as sweet. I find eventually on long rides I don't want sugar, I want something like a sandwich.


 From what I've read, food is available every 80km. I can see me putting on weight over the course of LEL!!


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## ComedyPilot (1 Oct 2012)

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html

I have had a lot of fun using this - should be a good prep tool for training


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## phil_hg_uk (1 Oct 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Thanks. The above (plus a final 10 minutes to squeeze the bl00dy thing through) has resulted in the Kindle edition seemingly being listed at amazon. Oh my. I'm famous. All over again


 
I bought this and read it yesterday and I throughly enjoyed it so thanks for putting all that effort into producing it  ................ I still think you are all bonkers for wanting to do it though


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## murray5 (3 Oct 2012)

frank9755 said:


> Everyone's recovery time is different but the rule of thumb is that it takes a month to fully get over a big ride and be back to peak. If the 400 takes a lot out of you and you are shattered at the end, you might then find the 600 a bit harder going than if you'd had a bit more recovery. But you won't know until you try it and it is not an unreasonable thing to attempt.
> 
> FWIW I did a 400 this summer then a 600 two weeks later and it was fine


 
Hello everyone,
,My name is Will and i have been living in Switzerland for the last 20 years .I hope to be taking part in 2013 and am delighted to find this forum. Recovery time is indeed a very individual matter .I took part in a 600, 3 weeks before the LEL in 2009 and came away from this swiss 600( www.radmarathon.ch) with a very swollen and painful knee,due to using too higher gears on a bike i didnt ride regularly.I thought at the time there was no way i was going to manage the LEL and would have had a good reason to call it off.However, after a couple of weeks the swelling went down and using a bike with a wider range of gears i managed to complete the LEL just within the time limit.I did the same 600 before the Paris brest last year and didnt feel at all incapacitated after the ride .I learnt a lot on that first LEL.The first thing i did before the paris brest was to invest in a hub dynamo and GPS. In 2009 i was luck enough to meet Martin who had a GPS and i followed his wheel for about 1100km. A soaked road sheet ,extreme tiredness and an unmarked route is an extra challenge for those who dont know the areas they are riding through.Ive read about riders going off the planned route and using main "A "roads to make up time. I wasnt sue where the A roads were,if i would miss controls and Im not sure about the ethos of such a practice anyway. That said, if you cycle 1400 km on main roads instead of the intended country lanes ,its still a long way to go.Hope to see you all there in 2013


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## vorsprung (3 Oct 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html
> 
> I have had a lot of fun using this - should be a good prep tool for training


 
It looks like a thing for people that can't add up


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## Kabeljauws (7 Oct 2012)

Arch said:


> Right. Anyone mad enough to be even considering the LEL 2013, pile in here, and hopefully any questions can be answered, training plans shared, and fevered brows mopped.
> 
> Edit: If anyone would like to appear on the potential particpants map, PM me with an approximate location (/village/town/city name will do) and I'll add you. I'll assume it's ok to label with your forum name, unless you ask otherwise.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Arch,

Don't know how to send a PM, but want to say that I'm considering LEL 2013. I'm living in Hechtel, Belgium.


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## London Edinburgh London (8 Oct 2012)

Here's the artwork for the LEL jersey. Made in Dewsbury, the jersey has some nifty features, including a waterproof zipped pocket built into the rear pockets that's big enough for your route card. There's also extra reflective piping on the back, and some extra-light material built in under the arms. It will be available in short sleeve, full-zip only, in both men's and women's sizings.


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## JoeyB (9 Oct 2012)

Cool beans! Do you only get to buy one if you complete LEL?


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## London Edinburgh London (9 Oct 2012)

You can buy one when you enter. You get to keep it whether you finish or not. :-)


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## Philip Whiteman (9 Oct 2012)

Just wondering who the jerseys are being manufactured by?

They look good by the way.


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## JoeyB (9 Oct 2012)

London Edinburgh London said:


> You can buy one when you enter. You get to keep it whether you finish or not. :-)



Do you have a price yet?


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## London Edinburgh London (9 Oct 2012)

Philip Whiteman said:


> Just wondering who the jerseys are being manufactured by?
> 
> They look good by the way.


 
They'll be made by forceGB.


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## London Edinburgh London (9 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> Do you have a price yet?


 
I do. I'm going to make an announcement about entries in the next few days.


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## EltonFrog (9 Oct 2012)

I've just been reading the LEL website with some interest. It looks like it be a great ride.


BUT, and forgive me if I have miscalculated, but to complete this ride in five days one has to cycle 173 miles a day! That's about 12 hours a day in the saddle!

ARE YOU FREAKING NUTS!?


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## martint235 (9 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> I've just been ready the LEL website with some interest. It looks like it be a great ride.
> 
> 
> BUT, and forgive me if I have miscalculated, but to complete this ride in five days one has to cycle 173 miles a day! That's about 12 hours a day in the saddle!
> ...


 
 That is all, just . I'm really looking forward to it. It'll be fun!!!


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## Philip Whiteman (9 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> I've just been ready the LEL website with some interest. It looks like it be a great ride.
> 
> 
> BUT, and forgive me if I have miscalculated, but to complete this ride in five days one has to cycle 173 miles a day! That's about 12 hours a day in the saddle!
> ...


 
There is nothing easy about audaxes and in the case of the LEL - but that is the attraction. For some, it won't be just 12 hours in the saddle as some will attempt to ride the event with the minimal amount of stops and less the five or even four days. So your calculation is perfectly correct.


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## EltonFrog (9 Oct 2012)

You are barking mad the lot of you!

What kind of bikes are you doing it on?


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## phil_hg_uk (9 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> You are barking mad the lot of you!
> 
> What kind of bikes are you doing it on?


 
Have you read andys book on this, if not it is here -> CLICK HERE then you really will think they are bonkers


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## London Edinburgh London (9 Oct 2012)

Carl, people finish on all sorts of machines. Tandems, triplets, tricycles, recumbents, mountain bikes and shoppers. Whatever suits you best will get you round just fine.


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## PpPete (9 Oct 2012)

Philip Whiteman said:


> There is nothing easy about audaxes and in the case of the LEL - but that is the attraction. For some, it won't be just 12 hours in the saddle as some will attempt to ride the event with the minimal amount of stops and less the five or even four days. So your calculation is perfectly correct.


 
I've done a little figurin' based on speeds achieved in other long events (although none as long as LEL) and expect to average 15 hours a day in the saddle. Plus a total of 34 hours refuelling & sleeping. Still leaves a six hour contingency.



CarlP said:


> You are barking mad the lot of you!


No argument there.


CarlP said:


> What kind of bikes are you doing it on?


A very comfortable one !
In my case that's: Ti frame, CF forks, leather saddle, but whatever works for you.


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## EltonFrog (9 Oct 2012)

London Edinburgh London said:


> Carl, people finish on all sorts of machines. Tandems, triplets, tricycles, recumbents, mountain bikes and shoppers. Whatever suits you best will get you round just fine.



Not me I'm afraid, sounds like my idea of hell.


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## martint235 (9 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> Not me I'm afraid, sounds like my idea of hell.


Ah but if you do it right, you get to buy a whole new bike specifically for LEL!!


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## JoeyB (9 Oct 2012)

I plan to enter LEL and I've just bought my first road bike to do it! Can't wait!!

In other news, every time I watch the weather now it dawns on me how far apart London and Edinburgh are hehe!

Plus, I've never been to Scotland before, so how cool will it be to tell my little baby girl when she's older that my first trip to Scotland was on a pushbike and I started in London! (I'm also contemplating riding back to Portsmouth after the event, afterall, whats another 60/70 miles on 870 !)


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## mcshroom (9 Oct 2012)

I'd be tempted to make other arrangements. I find on tour the last bit home from the station (7 miles) after finishing and catching the train back is always the hardest bit of riding as in my mind the ride has finished.

The nice thing about being based on the South coast is that you will be riding away from home on the way up and towards home on the way back. My worry is that if I do ride, I'll be very tempted to turn West near Brampton and go home as I know the route. I'm sure I'll be fine but the thought of riding away from home for the last couple days might take some mental strength.


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## JoeyB (9 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> I'd be tempted to make other arrangements. I find on tour the last bit home from the station (7 miles) after finishing and catching the train back is always the hardest bit of riding as in my mind the ride has finished.
> 
> The nice thing about being based on the South coast is that you will be riding away from home on the way up and towards home on the way back. My worry is that if I do ride, I'll be very tempted to turn West near Brampton and go home as I know the route. I'm sure I'll be fine but the thought of riding away from home for the last couple days might take some mental strength.


I hear you! I'll certainly have a plan B...


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## Beaker39 (10 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> the thought of riding away from home for the last couple days might take some mental strength.


 
I must admit to having similar thoughts myself. Being from the northwest of England I guess it will be extremely tempting to divert off and go home instead.


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## PpPete (10 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> Not me I'm afraid, sounds like my idea of hell.


 
You could, of course, volunteer to help in one of the controls... you get a free t-shirt, food, and travel expenses if you need 'em.
and best of all you can laugh at us as we pass through!


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## PpPete (10 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> I'd be tempted to make other arrangements. I find on tour the last bit home from the station (7 miles) after finishing and catching the train back is always the hardest bit of riding as in my mind the ride has finished.
> 
> The nice thing about being based on the South coast is that you will be riding away from home on the way up and towards home on the way back. My worry is that if I do ride, I'll be very tempted to turn West near Brampton and go home as I know the route. I'm sure I'll be fine but the thought of riding away from home for the last couple days might take some mental strength.


 
Yebbut Brampton to your place is still a fair old distance (as is Pocklington to Atherton for Beaker 39. Good few hills in the way too !
Distance that would seem endless after you'd abandoned.
My very first 200km passed (with 30km still to go) less than 1km from my house. Now that was hard !


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## mmmmartin (10 Oct 2012)

CarlP said:


> one has to cycle 173 miles a day! That's about 12 hours a day in the saddle


If think you can ride 14mph in12 hours every day for five days then you haven't tried it.


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## EltonFrog (10 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> You could, of course, volunteer to help in one of the controls... you get a free t-shirt, food, and travel expenses if you need 'em.
> and best of all you can laugh at us as we pass through!



Yes I could volunteer to help...


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## EltonFrog (10 Oct 2012)

mmmmartin said:


> If think you can ride 14mph in12 hours every day for five days then you haven't tried it.



I'm not sure I understand your point, but I could possibly do it...just... But I'd rather shave the skin off my bum and sit and bathe in a bowl of vinegar gargling with battery acid.


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## JoeyB (10 Oct 2012)

Yes if I only spend 12hours a day on the bike I'll be happy lol


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## EltonFrog (10 Oct 2012)

So, if I understand correctly. To do this ride and complete it in the given time, though it isn't a race, one has to be cycling for more than twelve hours day, is that right.

Why in the name of baked beans would anyone want to do that? It's nuts!

Blumen good luck to all, I say, I doft my cap in your general direction. Or to use a more modern vernacular..respec'


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## zigzag (10 Oct 2012)

like JoeyB, few years ago i decided that i want to go to scotland (never been there before) and came across a supported/organised ride LEL that would take me from london to edinburgh and back - it seemed like a great idea! only i hugely overestimated my fitness back then! i must have been very confident and naive. i didn't have anyone to tell me how easy or hard the ride is; i just turned up hoping that if others can do it, so can i.

it turned out to be a big adventure for me and i'm very glad on my decision! (in the hindsight - that was bonkers!)


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## Nebulous (10 Oct 2012)

Beaker39 said:


> I must admit to having similar thoughts myself. Being from the northwest of England I guess it will be extremely tempting to divert off and go home instead.


 
As soon as I turned at Edinburgh I would be heading away from home.

Hopefully my family will be in London waiting for me though!


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## mcshroom (13 Oct 2012)

Well after cracking my tourer's frame and Dawes upgrading my replacement, I think I now have the basis of a bike not to do LEL on 







(I've not actually set it up after the shop built it up so the saddle and bars are not right yet)


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## JoeyB (13 Oct 2012)

Did everyone get the email!

£219 entry fee

2 free bag drops

And apparently plenty of beds!

Bring it on!!!!


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## mcshroom (13 Oct 2012)

I didn't get the email - I'm sure I registered an interest ages ago but maybe not


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## JoeyB (13 Oct 2012)

Send me your addy and I can forward it.


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## mcshroom (13 Oct 2012)

Thanks


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## jefmcg (13 Oct 2012)

Or you can read it here

http://londonedinburghlondon.com/news



> *Only three months until entries open!*
> London Edinburgh London, the 1400km randonnée, takes place on 28 July 2013, and we are delighted to announce details about how you can enter.
> *Entries open on 5 January*. Entry will cost *£219*, which will include:
> 
> ...


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## martint235 (14 Oct 2012)

Yep got my email. Now just need one of the places.


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## yello (14 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> Bring it on!!!!


 
Get yourself properly prepared if you want to make the most of the experience. The day will arrive all too soon and I'd advise anyone to start making your plans, well, around about now! (Well, not 'now now' but not too much later 'now') Seriously, depending on your level of experience, you'll want to be building up your mileage from early in the new year. Depending on your circumstances, that might take planning - looking at the audax calendar, identifying rides, booking time of work, family commitments, etc etc etc.

Yes, if you're in reasonable physical shape and can ride a bike, then you can turn up and wing it... but there's more chance of enjoying it (not to mention finishing!) if you've done some preparation.


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## Trickedem (14 Oct 2012)

I am really looking forward to this now that the memories of doing the upward leg have faded a little. I have started to put some dates in the diary for rides in 2013 leading up to LEL. I may even do the Bryan Chapman memorial as part of the build up.


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## JoeyB (14 Oct 2012)

yello said:


> Get yourself properly prepared if you want to make the most of the experience. The day will arrive all too soon and I'd advise anyone to start making your plans, well, around about now! (Well, not 'now now' but not too much later 'now') Seriously, depending on your level of experience, you'll want to be building up your mileage from early in the new year. Depending on your circumstances, that might take planning - looking at the audax calendar, identifying rides, booking time of work, family commitments, etc etc etc.
> 
> Yes, if you're in reasonable physical shape and can ride a bike, then you can turn up and wing it... but there's more chance of enjoying it (not to mention finishing!) if you've done some preparation.



Agreed, i plan to do a SR as part of the preparation. I have my Audax membership sorted now so will be on some rides very soon. I'm in good shape but as you've said, I want to enjoy the experience, not just survive it!


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## London Edinburgh London (14 Oct 2012)

To be able to offer two bag drops, we'll have to place some conditions. You can only leave up to 5kg with us (in either one or two bags), and you'll need to use bags that we'll supply at registration.

That should be enough for a couple of changes of kit.


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## ComedyPilot (14 Oct 2012)

Might seem weird, but I am looking to carry my own kit, not bothering with bag drops.

I usually tour by bike so the weight won't be an issue, as I won't be carrying food/cooker/tent etc, just change clothing/wash gear and drinks


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## yello (14 Oct 2012)

London Edinburgh London said:


> you'll need to use bags that we'll supply at registration.


 
Promise? Because I thought that was the case last time (no idea why) and when I got to the registration desk I found out I was wrong! Fortunately I had a biggish supermarket carrier bag with me that I was able to use... which actually turned out to be to my benefit as it's distinctiveness meant I was quickly and easily able to find it at Dalkeith.

Which leads me to a thought.... people, you'd better tie a yellow ribbon around your drop bag so as to identify in amongst all of the others!


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## JoeyB (14 Oct 2012)

Now everyone is gonna have yellow ribbon!!!


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## yello (14 Oct 2012)

darn, hadn't thought of that!


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## ComedyPilot (14 Oct 2012)

If we're fed and watered every 50-60 miles, then apart from a few clothes and a wash kit, what else does one need to carry?

I suppose club riders used to doing the miles on bikes weighing less than a bag of sugar won't want to carry anything. Tourers like me will wonder what all the fuss is about when we can ride with much less than half the normal weight.


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## mcshroom (14 Oct 2012)

Pretty much. I might suggest some spare tubes, tyres, cables etc. at the bag drops to replace any that had been used during the ride.


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## martint235 (15 Oct 2012)

I was kind of just going to carry the usual essential tools. Any tubes need replacing, I was hoping to find a shop.

Spare set of kit although I'm tempted to just go down the pongy route.


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## mcshroom (15 Oct 2012)

Just a warning that it gets far more spaced out up at the Northern end so you may go a distance before you find a bike shop.


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## yello (15 Oct 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I suppose club riders used to doing the miles on bikes weighing less than a bag of sugar won't want to carry anything. Tourers like me will wonder what all the fuss is about when we can ride with much less than half the normal weight.


 
Must admit, with the 2 bag drop option, I am tempted to go the 'bag of sugar' route. It's not really me but it is tempting. I do like that it's an event for all comers though. Be they race whippets, touring sink carriers, or beardy audax die-hards.


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## Tynan (15 Oct 2012)

indeed, it may be 1400km but that's 'only' about 2 months commuting for me and in 2 months I don't expect to have any mechanicals or punctures, and the bike will hopefully be fully serviced and stroked pre LEL so I see no reason to carry more than I do already, 2 tubes, a chain breaker and a link and a boot, plus there's some mechanical support at the controls if I read the guide right

and mucho tuck at controls, showers and blankets, I agree with much pongo too (I don;t have much kit in depth anyway) with lashing of assos cream, Summer so no serious clothing barring nasty forecasts at the time

other than doing the distance it's all a bit of a doddle


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## ComedyPilot (15 Oct 2012)

I can see the  getting a bit of hammer on this thread.....................


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## martint235 (15 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> indeed, it may be 1400km but that's 'only' about 2 months commuting for me and in 2 months I don't expect to have any mechanicals or punctures, and the bike will hopefully be fully serviced and stroked pre LEL so I see no reason to carry more than I do already, 2 tubes, a chain breaker and a link and a boot, plus there's some mechanical support at the controls if I read the guide right
> 
> and mucho tuck at controls, showers and blankets, I agree with much pongo too (I don;t have much kit in depth anyway) with lashing of assos cream, Summer so no serious clothing barring nasty forecasts at the time
> 
> other than doing the distance it's all a bit of a doddle


Yep pretty much my thinking. So long as I'm regularly fed (and it sounds like 3 course meals!) I'll be fine.

As for the distance, 175 miles a day. 16 hours of riding per day, 11mph. How hard can that be?


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## yello (15 Oct 2012)

That's the spirit. It's only a bike ride after all, and anyone can ride a bike. Just ride to Edinburgh then come back. HHCIB


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## middleagecyclist (15 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> Yep pretty much my thinking. So long as I'm regularly fed (and it sounds like 3 course meals!) I'll be fine.
> 
> As for the distance, 175 miles a day. 16 hours of riding per day, 11mph. How hard can that be?


I was planning 15.5 hrs!


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## JoeyB (15 Oct 2012)

My only worry is having a numb backside after day 1!


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## martint235 (15 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> My only worry is having a numb backside after day 1!


How is that a worry? My worry is that it may not be numb after day 1!!!


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## JoeyB (15 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> How is that a worry? My worry is that it may not be numb after day 1!!!



Ok numb probably wasn't the best word lol... Battered and bruised is what I meant!


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## ComedyPilot (15 Oct 2012)

The only way to avoid it is by putting hours in the saddle. Also make sure you're sat right on the bike, most of the saddle weight being through your 'sit bones' in your pelvis. Also, get a Brooks saddle - I swear by mine - I am used to touring 10-12 hours a day for 3 weeks with no cycle shorts, so hopefully 16-20 hours a day for 4 days is going to be ok....?


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## Tynan (15 Oct 2012)

oh dear, the Lady Wife has given a pass freely on the sole condition that 'I train properly'

and LBS have said 'come in for a chat' in response to my ludicrous request that they sponsor me

gulp

I'd dearly love to get started on a brooks, pricey though on my miniscule budget, how long to get one worn in and ready?


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## martint235 (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> oh dear, the Lady Wife has given a pass freely on the sole condition that 'I train properly'
> 
> and LBS have said 'come in for a chat' in response to my ludicrous request that they sponsor me
> 
> ...


 I honestly haven't had a problem with either of my Brooks from the off. I think if you wear padded shorts a lot of the breaking in is negated. I must confess I've never tried to ride either of mine without padded shorts.

My first ride on my first Brooks was 160 miles with no issues.


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## Alberto (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> oh dear, the Lady Wife has given a pass freely on the sole condition that 'I train properly'
> 
> and LBS have said 'come in for a chat' in response to my ludicrous request that they sponsor me
> 
> ...


 
When I first got my B17 I went touring for four long days. Only on the very first day did it feel uncomfortable after 3 hours of pedalling. After that, it became more ok for the duration of the tour, yet did not show any signs of breaking in until I had put 2000 km on it. It is now very comfy indeed, and have no trouble putting in >15 h of continuous pedalling, with padded shorts.

I think it depends on which model you get - the racing ones tend to be harder to break in, and apparently, the colour. The brown ones are known to break in faster?


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## JoeyB (16 Oct 2012)

So what sort of Brooks is acceptable on my carbon Scott then?


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## martint235 (16 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> So what sort of Brooks is acceptable on my carbon Scott then?


 I've got a black Brooks B17 Narrow on each of my carbon Giant and titanium planet x.


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## Alberto (16 Oct 2012)

I was told to get a B17 regular, as it was my first Brooks, but am no expert at all! Other people seem very happy with the Swift and the Team Pro Classic. These last two are meant to be harder and more suited to race bikes, yet plenty of cyclists use the B17 in all its versions without a problem. The B17 and Team Pro seem to be the cheapest at the moment also. The good thing is, if you do not get on with them, there's a good second hand market where you can pretty much get a full refund on them.


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## JoeyB (16 Oct 2012)

Looks like I need to get one soon to give me enough time to break it in!!


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## mcshroom (16 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> Looks like I need to get one soon to give me enough time to break it in!!



You need to prepare your Brooks properly.

1. Take Brooks saddle and large flat stone and place in tumble dryer.

2. Turn heat on tumble dryer to 40 degrees and switch tumble dryer on for 1 hour.

3. Take saddle and stone from the tumble dryer.

4. Throw away saddle and fit stone to bike - the Brooks should have softened it enough.

(quoted from a different forum)


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## JoeyB (16 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> You need to prepare your Brooks properly.
> 
> 1. Take Brooks saddle and large flat stone and place in tumble dryer.
> 
> ...


 
As I was reading that I was thinking who is going to let me borrow their tumble dryer and will they be happy with me placing a large flat stone in it??!! haha


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## vorsprung (16 Oct 2012)

JoeyB said:


> So what sort of Brooks is acceptable on my carbon Scott then?


 
I used to have a Brooks Swift on my Orbea that looked ok
On my audax bike (Specialized Roubaix) I have a modified B17. It doesn't look good but it works for me.
I got rid of the Swift as it was a bit on the narrow side


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## JoeyB (16 Oct 2012)

Standard or narrow B17 vorsprung?


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## vorsprung (16 Oct 2012)

I have a standard B17 because I have a wide arse. The saddle has a slot cut in it


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## stevevw (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> how long to get one worn in and ready?


 
About 2 months commute or one LEL 
Probably best to get one broken in on the commute though.

I will warn Greg and Rox to switch off their mobiles and hide all my spare wheels then.


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## JoeyB (16 Oct 2012)

vorsprung said:


> I have a standard B17 because I have a wide arse. The saddle has a slot cut in it


Why did you cut a slot in it?


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## PpPete (16 Oct 2012)

Which Brooks?
Depends, not on how well covered you arse is, but how close your "sit-bones" are together.
I resisted the idea of a Brooks for a long time, and along the way, still trying to find a comfy long distance saddle, I had my arse measured by a Specialized dealer. Apparently it come up narrow so, of their three widths (130,143, 155 IIRC) they recommended a 130. It was better than anything I'd tried previously but still got a "numb bum" after 3 hours or so.
Then purely by accident I was obliged to ride a bike equipped with a narrow old Brooks (the discontinued "Competition" model) and found it a revelation.
I now have a Swift which is still hard as a piece of wood (indeed my kids believe it is make of oak, not leather) after 5000km .... but it suits my shape.
I have tried a B17, but despite being well softened, it was nowhere near as comfortable.


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## velovoice (16 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> Which Brooks?
> Depends, not on how well covered you arse is, but how close your "sit-bones" are together.


 
Yes.

I was a bit spooked at the beginning by all the "breaking in" myths (e.g. "you don't break in a Brooks to your butt, you break in your butt to a Brooks", etc etc) but after many months and hundreds of miles of misery (and multiple bailed what-should-have-been century rides) sitting on 3 different models, I totted up my notes of what I'd learned (what rubbed where, etc; measured my sit bones) and gave Brooks one last chance: the Swallow. Which, after the Swift, is about the narrowest model Brooks make.

Perfection. The perfect shape, perfect size. The most comfortable saddle (for me) ever, right from the start.

Plus - big bonus for me from an aesthetics point of view - the Swallow is the only model that doesn't have the skirting, which I think looks plain silly on any road bike other than one obviously used for touring.

So.... forget the gritting-your-teeth-and-putting-up-with-the-pain-for-x-hundreds-of-miles. If it's the right Brooks for you, you'll know immediately. Don't waste your time waiting for *the wrong one* to somehow get better.

Here's a photo of my Pacer with the Swallow.


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## ComedyPilot (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> oh dear, the Lady Wife has given a pass freely on the sole condition that 'I train properly'
> 
> and LBS have said 'come in for a chat' in response to my ludicrous request that they sponsor me
> 
> ...


I would estimate 500-1000 miles


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## oldfatfool (16 Oct 2012)

By an aged model and negate the breaking in. My aged flyer is very comfy for long days. Looks stupid on the Giant but great on the Panorama


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## Tynan (16 Oct 2012)

yes, quite the range isn't it, they do look wide but that's the way there are aren't they?

Is the regular B17 fine for a road bike? you're fairly scrawny aintcha martin?

and the previously enjoyed ones on ebay, is it bad to get one already fitted to someone else's arse?


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## martint235 (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> yes, quite the range isn't it, they do look wide but that's the way there are aren't they?
> 
> Is the regular B17 fine for a road bike? you're fairly scrawny aintcha martin?
> 
> and the previously enjoyed ones on ebay, is it bad to get one already fitted to someone else's arse?


I wouldn't particularly describe myself as scrawny, 6'6" and 15 and half stone at the mo. To be honest I never really looked at the standard B17, I just thought the Narrow would be better suited to a road bike.

I also wouldn't know about used ones. I'm about to buy another new one for the commuter. I think it was damaged in the Emsworth crash and then I've just made it worse by being cackhanded with the tension bolt.


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## mcshroom (16 Oct 2012)

To all those worrying about aesthetics - you can't see your saddle when you're sitting on it


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## zigzag (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> Is the regular B17 fine for a road bike? you're fairly scrawny aintcha martin?
> 
> and the previously enjoyed ones on ebay, is it bad to get one already fitted to someone else's arse?


 
i use regular b17 on a road bike for very long distances - it doesn't look right and it's heavy, but comfy for me (especially i start appreciating it after good few hundred km). i'd suggest buying new if you can and don't get too enthusiastic with proofide - once or twice a year is plenty. here's my bike on 1000km ride in scotland last summer:


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## martint235 (16 Oct 2012)

Tynan. Golden rule. Don't listen to zigzag!! Ever!!! 

What he should have said is "here's my bike on one of my shorter rides, a bit of a pootle for 1000km round Scotland last summer".

If you don't believe me, ask him how much climbing was involved?


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## Tynan (16 Oct 2012)

zigzag dragged me barely breathing all the way home from a very dark hertfordshire (I think) with admirable levels of pleasantness and grace

and too many proper riders have sucked on their teeth in an admiring way when his name comes up

I listen but I pay no attention as it's all too abstract and theoretical for me, so I think we're all happy with that stance

Anyway, I have no problems with what it looks like, I won't be able to see it, and I have a pannier on most of the time anyway

Anyway, I think it looks fine, I like a bit of old skool and I'm 47 this year so getting old enough to carry off that old fashioned look

I've confused you with someone else, again, martin, sorry, zigzag is scarwny anyway so the regular B17 must be fine for my wafer 15st, I thin I knew the answer on second arsed, just hoping to be allowed to be tight


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## zigzag (16 Oct 2012)

the reason i advice to buy new brooks saddle is that you might need to use their warranty offer. many audax riders agree that the leather of new (i.e. after the company was bought by italians) brooks saddles is thinner/softer and goes out of shape quicker, which usually is not a good thing. i've had to return my b17 after very wet lel'09; it collapsed in five days of riding in the rain. brooks kindly replaced the top with a sturdier leather and it's been fine so far.


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## PpPete (17 Oct 2012)

I have had three successes with 2nd hand Brooks off Ebay, and one failure.
Maybe I've just been lucky though.

May I repeat though, whether a wide or narrow saddle is more comfortable is now't to do with how scrawny or how well fleshed you are, it is much more to do with how wide apart your sit-bones are.


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## velovoice (17 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> May I repeat though, whether a wide or narrow saddle is more comfortable is now't to do with how scrawny or how well fleshed you are, it is much more to do with how wide apart your sit-bones are.


+1

Fat may be relevant to how much rubbing you get on the side of the saddle. I know I prefer a saddle with a definite indent in the side rather than a gradual curve (think T shape rather than pear).

But the starting point must always be your sit-bone width. Do bear in mind also the metal plate under the cantle and allow a little clearance for that in addition to your sit-bone measurement. Trust me, you do not want your sit-bones resting on that!


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## Alberto (17 Oct 2012)

zigzag said:


> the reason i advice to buy new brooks saddle is that you might need to use their warranty offer. many audax riders agree that the leather of new (i.e. after the company was bought by italians) brooks saddles is thinner/softer and goes out of shape quicker, which usually is not a good thing. i've had to return my b17 after very wet lel'09; it collapsed in five days of riding in the rain. brooks kindly replaced the top with a sturdier leather and it's been fine so far.


 
Interesting that you mentioned about the saddle collapsing after LEL. I experience pretty much the same after a wet tour in NW Scotland, despite all my efforts to keep it dry when not riding on it. When I got home I noticed that the leather was very saggy. Got in touch with Brooks and they said I should let it dry and then re-tension it with the bolt. It's now back to normal, although it's shape has changed quite a bit. I wonder how many more of these wet rides it will take given that the tensioning-bolt is now 1/4 of the way used?


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## rb58 (17 Oct 2012)

I'd been riding a Brooks B17 for a year by the time Tim and I did the upward leg of LEL in the summer. By the time we got to Edinburgh I was in quite a lot of discomfort - such that I decided to give up on it and go back to my trusty San Marco Rolls. The Brooks has languished on the garage shelf ever since and will never again grace one of my bikes. The learning for me was that weekend century rides are different from 300 miles in a day, followed by 175 miles the next day, particularly in the way your body reacts.

I'm still undecided about whether to do LEL. Two things stick in mind from our dummy run. Firstly, I'm not sure I was in a fit state to turn around and ride back from Edinburgh - but that's most likely due to not eating properly and not taking enough breaks on day 1. I really don't recommend 300 miles as the first leg. And secondly, I found long stretches quite boring and whilst I think it was an achievement, it wasn't something I particularly enjoyed. (That's no reflection on Tim, who is always a pleasure to ride with, especially when he falls asleep in the saddle!)

So, I shall decide on whether to enter nearer the time depending on if the pain has dulled by then.

In terms of preparation, it's not the mileage that would worry me, it's the consecutive days. So I'd advise you to make sure your preparation does not focus exclusively on day rides.

(BTW if anyone wants to make me a sensible offer for a good condition standard Brooks B17 in black, drop me a PM)

Cheers


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## Tynan (17 Oct 2012)

cheerfulness and light again, tsk

It was comfy for a year and horrid on a long ride? That's not good, any idea why?


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## velovoice (18 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> It was comfy for a year and horrid on a long ride? That's not good, any idea why?


The clue is here: "The learning for me was that weekend century rides are different from 300 miles in a day, followed by 175 miles the next day, particularly in the way your body reacts."

I consider the B17 an instrument of torture. YMMV.


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## rb58 (18 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> It was comfy for a year and horrid on a long ride? That's not good, any idea why?


To be honest, I never really felt comfortable on the Brooks for the whole year I was trying to break it in. However, my point wasn't really about the saddle, it was that for most people contemplating LEL, 150 miles in a day is no big deal. But in my experience, doing that mileage day after day is a different prospect and your training needs to prepare you for this.


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## Tynan (18 Oct 2012)

I hear that, most advice says do at least one 600km, I have thought that was a minimum requirement as being two days of riding and something approaching half the total distance

can't wait (to find out)


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## martint235 (19 Oct 2012)

Well I've decided to approach manufacturers for sponsorship (I'll be riding for MIND). The first manufacturer said that unfortunately they couldn't sponsor me financially but they have provided £100 worth of goods free of charge to help me.


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## frank9755 (20 Oct 2012)

zigzag said:


> the reason i advice to buy new brooks saddle is that you might need to use their warranty offer. many audax riders agree that the leather of new (i.e. after the company was bought by italians) brooks saddles is thinner/softer and goes out of shape quicker, which usually is not a good thing. i've had to return my b17 after very wet lel'09; it collapsed in five days of riding in the rain. brooks kindly replaced the top with a sturdier leather and it's been fine so far.


 
I had to return one under warranty last year, too. The leather started to flop over onto one side after a couple of thousand miles. 

FWIW I used to swear by Brooks but, other than on my tourer, I don't use them any more; they are ok but there are others which I get on better with, especially if I am riding faster and hence in a lower position. Also having to constantly worry about keeping the rain off them is a bit of a pain!


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## Alberto (21 Oct 2012)

frank9755 said:


> I had to return one under warranty last year, too. The leather started to flop over onto one side after a couple of thousand miles.
> 
> FWIW I used to swear by Brooks but, other than on my tourer, I don't use them any more; they are ok but there are others which I get on better with, especially if I am riding faster and hence in a lower position. Also having to constantly worry about keeping the rain off them is a bit of a pain!


 
I have always used Selle Italia Flite that I got back several years ago. Fine for the mtb, where I would not use a Brooks, but not so great for more than >200 km. I am now thinking about a brooks for my road bike, yet not totally convinced due to the reasons you guys mention about rain etc. Any other models that you could recommend Frank?


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## Tynan (23 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> May I repeat though, whether a wide or narrow saddle is more comfortable is now't to do with how scrawny or how well fleshed you are, it is much more to do with how wide apart your sit-bones are.


yes yes but given similar proportions, the taller fellow will have wider sit bines init


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## velovoice (24 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> yes yes but given similar proportions, the taller fellow will have wider sit bines init


No correlation at all. There is no proportionality between one's sit-bone width and, say, the length of one's legs.


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## Tynan (25 Oct 2012)

I specifically didn't suggest that


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## velovoice (26 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> I specifically didn't suggest that


To be fair, no, you didn't but I addressed it anyway. You did suggest that the taller you are, then (as a general proposition) the wider apart your sit bones will be. I wanted to correct that - there is no correlation at all.


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## srw (26 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> To be fair, no, you didn't but I addressed it anyway. You did suggest that the taller you are, then (as a general proposition) the wider apart your sit bones will be. I wanted to correct that - there is no correlation at all.


Equally, I'm sure that there is, but I don't have the stats to prove it. I would simply use the general observation that the taller you are the bigger (in general) your bones tend to be.

Actually, googling around a bit:


> Pelin et al. recently showed that sacral height measured on lateral magnetic resonance images can be used with moderate accuracy to reconstruct stature in males. In most forensic anthropological cases, however, sacral dimensions must be obtained from dry bones. In this study, the relationship between stature and sacral height, hip height, and femur head diameter measured on dry bone was evaluated for American Blacks and Whites of both sexes (N = 247). There are significant correlation between stature and these three dimensions, but the results suggest that none of the dimensions predict stature with the accuracy needed to be useful in forensic anthropological investigations.


http://www.academia.edu/199600/Stat...ensions_of_the_bony_pelvis_and_proximal_femur


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## velovoice (26 Oct 2012)

srw said:


> Equally, I'm sure that there is, but I don't have the stats to prove it. I would simply use the general observation that the taller you are the bigger (in general) your bones tend to be.
> 
> Actually, googling around a bit:
> 
> http://www.academia.edu/199600/Stat...ensions_of_the_bony_pelvis_and_proximal_femur


I don't doubt any of that. But it doesn't seem to mention the _distance_ or _width_ between the sit bones, which is what we were talking about.


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## Tynan (26 Oct 2012)

not just taller but in proportion, I refuse to believe there is no correlation


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## velovoice (26 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> not just taller but in proportion, I refuse to believe there is no correlation


Well I certainly know that you can take 10 women of the same height and weight, proportion (length of body vs. legs), chest measurement, waist measurement, hip measurement (all the usuals for determining size), and their sit bone widths will vary greatly. It won't make any difference whether any have been pregnant (even slightly or to full term and natural birth).

I suspect the same will be true if you can get a control group of 10 very closely-similar sized men. (Pregnancy not being any more relevant to them in this context than it is to women, believe it or not.)

I used to date a guy who was 5'11", slim build, indeed classic old-fashioned cyclists' physique. His sit bone width was significantly greater than mine. (I am 5'4" and about 3 stone overweight.)


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## Tynan (26 Oct 2012)

he was a lot taller than you and had a wider sit bone?

and indeed was a different sex

anyway we're arguing about nothing really, I see your point


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## srw (26 Oct 2012)

Samples of 10 are not statistically significant. Nor is a sample of 2. But the sample of 2 demonstrates 100% correlation.

And variability within a uniform cohort says nothing about correlations across cohorts.

However, this mathematical disquisition is diverting the thread. Brooks are great, but buy the right one.


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## Tynan (26 Oct 2012)

a sample of ten might be, depends upon the size of the group they're drawn from init

ah but is it a new thinner leather Brooks?


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## srw (26 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> a sample of ten might be, depends upon the size of the group they're drawn from ini?


No, it doesn't. Unless the population is only 10. Once upon a time I knew why.

But let's leave the thread to people who think 1400km inside a week is a nice holiday.I'd like to be the sort of person who thinks it might not be an insanely heroic achievement.


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## middleagecyclist (26 Oct 2012)

None of this helps me decide which Brooks i should get for my audax bike!


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## martint235 (26 Oct 2012)

srw said:


> No, it doesn't. Unless the population is only 10. Once upon a time I knew why.
> 
> But let's leave the thread to people who think 1400km inside a week is a nice holiday.I'd like to be the sort of person who thinks it might not be an insanely heroic achievement.


How can you not think it will be fun??


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## PpPete (26 Oct 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> None of this helps me decide which Brooks i should get for my audax bike!


 
pop along to your local specialized dealer and have them measure to determine if you have a big arse wide or narrow sit-bones


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## middleagecyclist (26 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> pop along to your local specialized dealer and have them measure to determine if you have a big arse wide or narrow sit-bones


But i want a Brooks...not a Specialized!


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## Tynan (26 Oct 2012)

srw said:


> No, it doesn't. Unless the population is only 10. Once upon a time I knew why.


 
if you've asked the entire population it's a bit more than representative, you don;t have to ask _everyone_

'Take a piece of aluminium kitchen foil and place it on a carpeted stair. Sit on the foil, lean forward a bit to approximate your riding position, then lift your feet. This should leave a good impression of your rear in the foil, and you can measure between the two points of deepest impression to get your sit bone width'

sadly my stairs don't have carpet


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## mcshroom (27 Oct 2012)

If you really want to knock yourself out srw, have a google search for the 'Data Quality Objectives' process


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## PpPete (27 Oct 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> But i want a Brooks...not a Specialized!


Yes but having measured you they will tell you whether you are a narrow, regular or wide (by their standards) then you have to think of an excuse for not buying one of their saddles (being a tight arse seems appropriate)


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## middleagecyclist (27 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> Yes but having measured you they will tell you whether you are a narrow, regular or wide (by their standards) then you have to think of an excuse for not buying one of their saddles (being a tight arse seems appropriate)


I've got a B17 already and love it. Not sure if it is the right one for 300 odd KM per day for 5 days. Decisions, decisions!


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## PpPete (27 Oct 2012)

I suspect the B17 will be a very popular choice amongst LEL riders. If you know it already works for you then I wouldnt change..... unless the bike you will be using for LEL puts you in a very different position than the one with the B17.
Personally I have quite a low position now (worked it down gradually, as I decided with my large frontal area, the aerodynamic benefits were significant) so a narrower saddle is even more appropriate, I'd only use a B17 on flat bar bike now.


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## middleagecyclist (27 Oct 2012)

I intend to have a new bike for fast touring/audax rides in the Spring. My B17 is used on a heavy tourer/commuter and the position in likely a bit more upright than I will have on the new bike. Mr Hewitt will be doing my fitting so I will get his advice but I do like to go ready to ask pertinent questions.


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## martint235 (27 Oct 2012)

Just a touch of reality here. Whatever saddle you choose, you WILL hate it by August 3rd 2013. Just so you know that


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## mcshroom (27 Oct 2012)

Unless you pick a laid back Lelly, it's just like a deckchair in one of those (so they tell me)


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## martint235 (27 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Unless you pick a laid back Lelly, it's just like a deckchair in one of those (so they tell me)


Aug 5th 2013:for sale, one titanium bike. One very careful owner. Goes by the name of Lelly.


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## Tynan (27 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> Aug 5th 2013:for sale, one titanium bike. One very careful owner. Goes by the name of Lelly.


grinch


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## martint235 (27 Oct 2012)

Tynan said:


> grinch


I will never ever sell Lelly. But expectation wise LEL will hurt. But you get a medal. And to say "I've done it". The medal is me


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## mcshroom (27 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> And to say "I've done it". The medal is me



I was hoping for a metal one myself. I haven't any room for you in the flat


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## Hedgehoguk (27 Oct 2012)

I have not been logging in that often as since the demise of the chat room .

But with 2013 fast approaching I thought I had better get back up to speed with all the banter and what everyone else is doing in preparation.

The only things that will stop me now will be work and finances but hopefully they are under control at this point.

Sadly I will not have a my new beast to play with so it will have to be the Roadrunner (alias Miss Piggy - largely due to her weight). That said we know each other well and it should be fun. I could start putting her on diet by changing certain bits and pieces to carbon but I will wait and see. 

I was torn between the EuroTour 2013 for velomobiles or the LEL as the dates clash. But LEL won as the EuroTour is over 3 weeks and the boss will definitely not wear that one - that was without time to get there and back so the best part of a month. It could have been fun - but I am sure LEL will be equally enjoyable.


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## London Edinburgh London (28 Oct 2012)

I shouldn't say this, but I use a Selle Italia gel saddle. Had it for years and rode it for PBP. Never given me a moment of grief. 

There's no substitute for miles on the road. The more you do, the easier LEL will be. And no saddle on earth will mitigate this cold hard fact.


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## Hedgehoguk (28 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> You are assuming your mind will still be working after that many consecutive long days on the road ?
> May not be everyone's cup of tea, but once the route is finalized and the GPX tracks published I will be building a time-sheet on Excel which takes account of allocated start time, kilometres, mtrs of ascent, time @ controls, an allowance for mechanicals, and a gradual slowing down from "almost respectable pace" on day 1, through "bloody slow", right down to "arthritic snail" by the end.
> That plan will be then be reduced to a scheduled arrival time and departure time at each control, which in a sleep deprived state we can still just about relate to, and figure how much of our "contingency" has been burned up.


 
Would be good if you published it on here Pete.


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## Hedgehoguk (29 Oct 2012)

Is there an unofficial list of finishers and timings between checkpoints for the 2009 LEL ?


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## frank9755 (29 Oct 2012)

Alberto said:


> I have always used Selle Italia Flite that I got back several years ago. Fine for the mtb, where I would not use a Brooks, but not so great for more than >200 km. I am now thinking about a brooks for my road bike, yet not totally convinced due to the reasons you guys mention about rain etc. Any other models that you could recommend Frank?


 
Hi Alberto,

I use a Selle Italia nowadays. I think it is called Gel Flow or something like that. Main thing it has is the cut-out bit in the middle which works for me in a more leaning-fowards position. I also use their TT one on my TT bike.

I got the Gel Flow because I knew the brooks wouldn't work for the 24-hour TT (I remember being thoroughly sick of it by the end of the Dean and not able to lean forward on the last third of the ride without it being painful), but TT saddles wouldn't be right either as they are really designed for short distances.

But it is trial and error. The Selle Italia suits me but I am sure it would be torture for some people.


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## Nuncio (29 Oct 2012)

Hedgehoguk said:


> Is there an unofficial list of finishers and timings between checkpoints for the 2009 LEL ?


There is and I have a copy, but it's failing to upload. I'll try again later.


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## London Edinburgh London (29 Oct 2012)

I have times for all finishers at each control. The data are anonymised. Email info@londonedinburghlondon.com if you'd like a copy.


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## Tynan (30 Oct 2012)

my first saddle from Condor was a Selle Italia something, I liked it very much indeed unti it split and the electrical tape patching it up got too crappy, been on free saddles since then, god I'm tight


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## Alberto (31 Oct 2012)

frank9755 said:


> Hi Alberto,
> 
> I use a Selle Italia nowadays. I think it is called Gel Flow or something like that. Main thing it has is the cut-out bit in the middle which works for me in a more leaning-fowards position. I also use their TT one on my TT bike.
> 
> ...


 
I've had the same gel flow for about 10 years on the mtb, and another one with the cut-out hole in the middle on the road bike for years too. Not bad at all, except on very long rides, when they become uncomfortable. I am going to experience with a swift for a few months to see how that goes for >10 h rides. The B17 on the tourer is good also, yet I kind of feel it rubs a bit much on my legs after a while, so got a more racey one instead...will see...


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## wilkyboy (31 Oct 2012)

Arch said:


> If anyone would like to appear on the potential particpants map, PM me with an approximate location (/village/town/city name will do) and I'll add you. I'll assume it's ok to label with your forum name, unless you ask otherwise.


 
Go on then, count me in for the map: just north of Cambridge. [edit: NW of DrMekon and WSW of Tonyg52]

I told Her I am doing it and she said she can't think about anything that far away, so I am taking it as a "yes"  Now just need to find some hills around Cambridge to practise on


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## middleagecyclist (31 Oct 2012)

Alberto said:


> I've had the same gel flow for about 10 years on the mtb, and another one with the cut-out hole in the middle on the road bike for years too. Not bad at all, except on very long rides, when they become uncomfortable. I am going to experience with a swift for a few months to see how that goes for >10 h rides. The B17 on the tourer is good also, yet I kind of feel it rubs a bit much on my legs after a while, so got a more racey one instead...will see...


I've got a spare B17 so I'll be putting that on the new audax bike and will see how it goes. I was thinking the Swift or even a B17 narrow might be the one to go for but the standard saddle which came with my Verenti Rhigos 0.3 road bike is very comfy and has been ridden on a couple of 100+ rides with no issues. I wonder if I should really try for something lighter than a Brooks? Decisions, decisions!


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## Alberto (1 Nov 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> I've got a spare B17 so I'll be putting that on the new audax bike and will see how it goes. I was thinking the Swift or even a B17 narrow might be the one to go for but the standard saddle which came with my Verenti Rhigos 0.3 road bike is very comfy and has been ridden on a couple of 100+ rides with no issues. I wonder if I should really try for something lighter than a Brooks? Decisions, decisions!


I would try the Verenti saddle for longer rides, and if it is still comfy after that then it should be ok. My Flite is absolutely fine for up to 10 h or 200 km rides, but becomes very uncomfortable after that. Still plenty of people I've ridden with over the last year seem perfectly happy with cheap-looking saddles and long distances..!

Regarding weight, I would not bother that much. After all, an audax bike is never light after you put on lights, water bottles, mudguards, carradice etc...


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## middleagecyclist (1 Nov 2012)

Alberto said:


> Regarding weight, I would not bother that much. After all, an audax bike is never light after you put on lights, water bottles, mudguards, carradice etc...


Yep. I agree an audax bike is never going to be the lightest steed but neither do I want to use components and luggage which add weight without compensatory benefits. Of course getting another 10kg off me will be the best weight saving I can make I reckon


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## wilkyboy (9 Nov 2012)

My saddle-sore two pennies: I think soft saddles don't necessarily equate to long-distance comfort (in the scheme of things).

I went through a pile of saddles since the DunRun this year when my Flite gave me a tingle in my dingle for a week afterwards: I went back to the one that came with the bike (ouch), the one that comes with new versions of the bike (too slippery), the one from my MTB (nnnnngggghhh). Eventually I popped down my LBS (more local to Tonyg52 than me, really) and they told me that I could buy a Bontrager saddle and try it for 30 days and return it for any reason and get my money back. Bonus! So I got measured for sit bones and tried a couple of their saddles around the car park (big car park) and opted for the hardest one -- a Bontrager Affinity RL, hollow Ti rails (for a bit of bounce). I took it out on a very windy Wiggle Rut (72mi sportive) and it was very good -- still some soreness, but more down to lack of miles than anything to do with the saddle, methinks. Now need to try it on some 200s and 300s.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but I think sitting on soft surfaces when your legs are pumping is more likely to causes rubbing sores, which can be more painful than pressure sores from resting your weight on a harder surface and I get the feeling any saddle -- even a deck chair -- is going to hurt after 1400km.

Now, if only the Bontrager was available in brown ...


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## PpPete (10 Nov 2012)

Ooooh !
Arrivée, the Audax UK magazine, tells me the route feedback I provided last year on a DIY over first & last stages has won me a free LEL jersey.
Very happy !


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## Bar from the Gar (12 Nov 2012)

Arch said:


> Right. Anyone mad enough to be even considering the LEL 2013, pile in here, and hopefully any questions can be answered, training plans shared, and fevered brows mopped.
> 
> Edit: If anyone would like to appear on the potential particpants map, PM me with an approximate location (/village/town/city name will do) and I'll add you. I'll assume it's ok to label with your forum name, unless you ask otherwise.
> 
> ...


Hi Arch, not sure how to PM you. So i will put it up here, can you add me to your map. Town is Mullingar (Midlands) Rep of Ireland. Training going well, cant wait !


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## RoyW (13 Nov 2012)

Hi Archie. I've been out of action on my bike for about 6 month now with a muscle problem in my shoulder but hope it will be sorted in the next couple of months so I can start training up for LEL. Having done pretty much nothing for that long I'm guessing I'm going to have to start almost from scratch! But feeling optimistic - can you put me on your map. I'm in Ivybridge, Devon (10 miles East of Plymouth).
Cheers
Roy 

Good site for training for long distance rides - www.landsend-to-johnogroats.co.uk.


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## RoyW (13 Nov 2012)

> My saddle-sore two pennies: I think soft saddles don't necessarily equate to long-distance comfort (in the scheme of things).


 
I agree with this. Fit/shape is the thing. If it fits its fine. Trouble is the only way to find the fit for you is to keep trying different saddles. 

I ride with an all carbon saddle - no cushioning at all. Have managed up to a 600k ride without problems. However, recent tandom purchase with cushioned saddles gave me a sore in 5 miles!


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## compo (14 Nov 2012)

I am not considering doing this ride for one second, although many years ago I did ride London to Kirkaldy over a very long weekend!

I followed the LEL advert at the top of this page and found out that they are looking for volunteers for the event. I live a short ride from the start/finish at Loughton, am retired so free most days, so I may well volunteer and see if they have anything I can make myself useful doing. I assume that once everyone is off things will quieten down at the start until riders begin to reappear at the finish.


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## 2oldnslow (14 Nov 2012)

My first post on the forum so be gentle  Moved back to the UK after a year in Cyprus following early retirement. Put in over 12,000km during my time in Cyprus (well it's easy to get out on the bike when the sun shines) but less than 10% of that since arriving in the UK in June so have registered my intent so ride LEL 2013 and will hopefully get a place as a means of motivating myself to get out on my bike on a cold/wet/dank NW morning here's hoping it works. Never ridden and Audax but used to me a CTC'er so plenty of their reliability rides 144 in 12 etc etc Just done a very silly thing and sold my sensible car that I could throw a couple of bikes in the back and bought one that won't accommodate a single bike so my training will have to be based in the NW (not a great problem there's some great cycling country here) or possibly ride out train back or vice versa. Just ticking over on the bike right now averaging around 200m a week rain permitting but will hopefully start doing a lot of longer multi-day rides once the worst of the winter has passed so fingers crossed Hmmmmmmm wonder how mad it would be to ride my Pashley


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## Banjo (14 Nov 2012)

Good Luck. thats 400 km further thanI have ever ridden. Hard to imagine.


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## Banjo (14 Nov 2012)

2oldnslow said:


> My first post on the forum so be gentle  Moved back to the UK after a year in Cyprus following early retirement. Put in over 12,000km during my time in Cyprus (well it's easy to get out on the bike when the sun shines) but less than 10% of that since arriving in the UK in June so have registered my intent so ride LEL 2013 and will hopefully get a place as a means of motivating myself to get out on my bike on a cold/wet/dank NW morning here's hoping it works. Never ridden and Audax but used to me a CTC'er so plenty of their reliability rides 144 in 12 etc etc Just done a very silly thing and sold my sensible car that I could throw a couple of bikes in the back and bought one that won't accommodate a single bike so my training will have to be based in the NW (not a great problem there's some great cycling country here) or possibly ride out train back or vice versa. Just ticking over on the bike right now averaging around 200m a week rain permitting but will hopefully start doing a lot of longer multi-day rides once the worst of the winter has passed so fingers crossed Hmmmmmmm wonder how mad it would be to ride my Pashley


 
good Luck and welcome on the forum. farking Pashley? that is hard core. Theres a guy does PBP opn vintage bikes, amazes me I couldnt even think of it on a modern bike.


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## 2oldnslow (15 Nov 2012)

Thanks and at least the Pashley has gears (well three of them) and a B17 but no I'm sure common sense will prevail and if I do get in I'll chose something less mad and a lot more appropriate. Mind you it is the ideal opportunity to hmmm buy another bike .


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## PpPete (15 Nov 2012)

Hedgehoguk said:


> > You are assuming your mind will still be working after that many consecutive long days on the road ?
> > May not be everyone's cup of tea, but once the route is finalized and the GPX tracks published I will be building a time-sheet on Excel which takes account of allocated start time, kilometres, mtrs of ascent, time @ controls, an allowance for mechanicals, and a gradual slowing down from "almost respectable pace" on day 1, through "bloody slow", right down to "arthritic snail" by the end.
> > That plan will be then be reduced to a scheduled arrival time and departure time at each control, which in a sleep deprived state we can still just about relate to, and figure how much of our "contingency" has been burned up.
> 
> ...


 
Early prototype version here.
With the timings that I've put in, the riders spends a little too long at Moffat - but still leaves well before the closing time.
Something goes pear-shaped and he leaves Brampton right on the "closing time", but now the red numbers tell us he's fighting all the way home, arriving back at the finish with just over 20 minutes to spare.
If you want to play with the numbers on your own machine or save a copy, click "Edit Workbook" (top left), then "Edit in Excel".
Comments welcomed.


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## JohnTCC (16 Nov 2012)

Someone is doing Gpx routes... Great what a time saver

Cannot say how good that is for those of us that are not 
too good with this interweb thing.


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## compo (16 Nov 2012)

@JohnTCC.

I recognise your avatar. When were you a Legion para?


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## JohnTCC (16 Nov 2012)

I joined November 78.... You??


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## JohnTCC (16 Nov 2012)

Back to the subject.... Anyone know what time on 5th Jan
Does entry open?


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## compo (16 Nov 2012)

JohnTCC said:


> I joined November 78.... You??


 
I joined in August 1967, 3e REI. Spent time in Madagascar, and towards the end of my time on preparation for the 3rd's transfer to South America. I came out in 1972. It was a time of great change. Much relocation and reorganisation following the loss of Algeria and the transfer of headquarters and training to mainland France except for you umbrella types who I believe stayed in Corsica!
Saw lots of places, had lots of experiences and loved every minute.


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## JohnTCC (16 Nov 2012)

ah... you were in the REAL Legion


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## jefmcg (16 Nov 2012)

JohnTCC said:


> Back to the subject.... Anyone know what time on 5th Jan
> Does entry open?


They have an official user on yacf

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64097.msg1350062#msg1350062



London Edinburgh London said:


> PpPete6 said:
> 
> 
> > What time on 5 January will it open?
> ...


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## JohnTCC (16 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the info


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## compo (17 Nov 2012)

Received this this morning in response to my volunteer application:

Dear William,

Thank you for letting me have your registration form as a volunteer
on London-Edinburgh -London 2013. What happens now?
1. I have entered your form on our data base for any of the controls in
which you have expressed an interest.
2. In the time leading up to the ride I will review the list and, in
discussion with controllers allocate volunteers to controls.
3. I will then contact you and ask you to confirm that you are
available and that you are happy with the allocation I have made.
4. When you have confirmed that with me, I will inform the controller
of the make-up of his/her team. The controller may then contact you with any
further information about the control.
5. If at any time your circumstances change and you are no longer
available please let me know.
6. If, at any time, you need any further information please don't
hesitate to contact me - e-mail is probably easiest.

We hope to arrange training for volunteers which will be helpful but not
compulsory. We will keep you informed through an e-mail newsletter of
progress with planning for the ride.

We really appreciate your interest in volunteering to help. Without
volunteers this ride could not take place. If you have volunteered for rides
in previous years, welcome back. You will know that the time you spend with
the ride will be hard work but enjoyable and worthwhile. If this is your
first time, welcome - I'm sure that you will enjoy yourself.
Regards,
Tony Webster
Volunteer Co-ordinator

I reckon I will end up washing up/cleaning!


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## Tynan (17 Nov 2012)

PpPete said:


> Early prototype version here.
> With the timings that I've put in, the riders spends a little too long at Moffat - but still leaves well before the closing time.
> Something goes pear-shaped and he leaves Brampton right on the "closing time", but now the red numbers tell us he's fighting all the way home, arriving back at the finish with just over 20 minutes to spare.
> If you want to play with the numbers on your own machine or save a copy, click "Edit Workbook" (top left), then "Edit in Excel".
> Comments welcomed.


 
That's outstanding, a 24kmh average for the first day v... but that's a moving average init

thanks very much, tht reqlly does help to quantify everything, any chance of knowing what goes wrong before Brampton?


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## PpPete (17 Nov 2012)

Tynan said:


> That's outstanding, a 24kmh average for the first day v... but that's a moving average init
> 
> thanks very much, tht reqlly does help to quantify everything, any chance of knowing what goes wrong before Brampton?


 
Too much time spent North of the Border ? 
I put that extra two hours in the stop at Brampton by way of representing a "mechanical". Take that number out, and see what it does to the numbers.

Once you've figured out your own speeds for flat & ascending you just have to play with the numbers in the Add & Subtract columns.

Im my example the moving average on the road is actually between 21 and 22 kph moving average for the first day (the 24 kph is before adding any allowance for climbing). - maybe I'll add a column for moving average on the front sheet in a later version.

FWIW I did Loughton-St Ives last year, on a heavier bike than I now use for Audax, and recorded 23 kph moving average, as it's not that hilly. My moving average on 200 km is normally a good bit slower than that.


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## arallsopp (21 Nov 2012)

JohnTCC said:


> Someone is doing Gpx routes... Great what a time saver
> Cannot say how good that is for those of us that are not too good with this interweb thing.


 
Painful as it is, I think its a good idea to plot the routes out yourself. It took me two nights of effort in 2009, and gave me the advantage that every town name rung in my ears as familiar when I came to ride it. Also, somewhere in my back brain, I almost knew where I was some of the time.

I'm not sure I could have blindly followed the GPS all the way. Inch by inch on the little screen is a tough way to measure your progress against 1400km. Of course, if you already have a rough idea of the layout (Edinburgh is north, right?) it might be overkill. Personally, overkill on a warm sofa is preferred to under prepared on a dark and stormy night.*


(Those of you familiar with the book / thread will know these aren't exclusive choices).


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## JohnTCC (21 Nov 2012)

Very good point well made. I tend to us route sheets with GPS as a back up/ conformation.

Your book arrived yesterday and I am looking forward to reading it


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## devo (30 Nov 2012)

I'm considering doing the LEL too but unsure if its a bit too much for my knees.. Might sign up in jan and see how the training goes. 
New to the forum.
Anyone in the Brighton area?


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## devo (30 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement! Fair to say you have misunderstood my post.
I've had a problem with one knee from marathon running. I've read Allsopp's book where he experienced some knee pain so thinking that much mileage might give me problems but really fancy giving this a go. Cycling wise i've never really had a problem.


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## mcshroom (30 Nov 2012)

Hi devo and welcome to cyclechat 

What sort of riding are you doing now, and how does your knee hold up towards the end of those rides? As a marathon runner you probably have a decent core fitness, and if you are starting now then I can't see why you shouldn't be able to ride LEL. I'd advise riding some other shorter audax rides to get used to the process and slowly ramp up the distances, but remeber this is just a long ride, so concentrate on making sure that you are as comfortable as possible, and that your range of movement in your knee is not going to cause problems later.

Nothing wrong with having an ambition


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## devo (30 Nov 2012)

Hi mcshroom.
Up to 90miles for long rides and that has been fine. I've been trying to run again to do the London Marathon in April (as I have a good for age place) but might have to knock it on the head.
I plan to try some audax rides in my area soon. Do many people use GPS's?
My bike is fairly comfortable but I will see if this is really the case after much longer rides!


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## mcshroom (30 Nov 2012)

GPSs are quite common (I use one). Just be warned that there are limited opportunities to charge batteries on LEL, so if you are using a gps with an internal battery like a Garmin Edge then you may need to look into power extenders. You will also be cycling at least part of the route at night so decent lighting (to see by not just be seen) is important..


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## devo (30 Nov 2012)

Yes I was thinking my current light set up won't be good enough as there will be no opportunity to charge. Even my phone would die after a day! These things will need to be considered in time. What GPS do you use? 
Will attempt to get some base miles in over dec. looking like it might be a bit icy this weekend so that could be fun.


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## mcshroom (30 Nov 2012)

I use a rather ancient Garmin Geko 201, which has no maps and uses an old serial connection but usefully uses AAA batteries.
A lot of riders use the Etrex range of GPS unit which run on AAs. 

There are external power packs that can run other devices, but hopefully others here and on YACF can cover those better than I can. 

It's always worth being able to follow the route on a map or with the instructions in any case


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## devo (30 Nov 2012)

Cheers for the info. I have a garmin edge 200 which doesn't have mapping but I think has some kind of navigation functionality that I've not used yet. Possibly one of those dotted lines. The external power packs sound interesting so will research that. 
Thanks


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## Edwardoka (2 Dec 2012)

Hi guys, a first time poster here, but I used to frequent the C+ forums back in the day.

I originally looked at doing LEL in 2009, but unforeseen circumstances conspired against me, so I settled instead for a much more sedate camping tour from Brighton to Glasgow.

I read arallsopp's amazing journal a while back and it sounded like an absolutely phenomenal adventure (if brutal and unrelenting)

I'm arguably at my lowest level of fitness in years, teetering as I am on the line betwixt overweight and obese, and I'll be 33 when LEL2013 rolls round. So naturally, I've challenged myself to enter arguably the hardest cycling challenge I'll ever do.

I've never done an audax before, but without any training at all, I rode a very hilly 153 miler a few months ago that was also my biggest daily mileage ever, albeit I slowed down over the last 30 miles or so, so I have retained some endurance from my fitter days - admittedly I could barely move for 2 days afterwards.

Right now I'm rubbish at climbs (because my power to weight ratio is terrible) I have poor cardiovascularity (which I'm confident will improve with training), but my recovery time is probably going to be the major obstacle for me in terms of purely physical challenges on an undertaking of this magnitude.

Judging by other people's posts in the thread, I have a LOT of hard training miles ahead of me before I can seriously consider entering...

Just as well I'm quite a masochist when it comes to suffering on a bike...

Cheers
Ed


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## PpPete (4 Dec 2012)

devo said:


> Yes I was thinking my current light set up won't be good enough as there will be no opportunity to charge. Even my phone would die after a day! These things will need to be considered in time. What GPS do you use?
> Will attempt to get some base miles in over dec. looking like it might be a bit icy this weekend so that could be fun.


 


devo said:


> Cheers for the info. I have a garmin edge 200 which doesn't have mapping but I think has some kind of navigation functionality that I've not used yet. Possibly one of those dotted lines. The external power packs sound interesting so will research that.
> Thanks


 
If you are thinking of upgrading your lights ... it might be worth considering the dynamo option. Especially as there a couple of interesting new lights just coming on to the market that run off the dynamo, AND have a integral USB socket into which you can plug any USB powered device (including an extender power pack) to keep it topped up when you are not using the dynamo to power the light. 
Busch & Mueller Luxos (U type) is the more expensive of the two
AXA Luxx 70 Plus is the other. 

Annoyingly I bought a separate rectifier/cache battery unit a few months ago....


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## Tynan (4 Dec 2012)

e179 just for the light, dynamo hub on top?


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## PpPete (5 Dec 2012)

Tynan said:


> e179 just for the light, dynamo hub on top?


Well I won't be buying one, but if you compare it the cost of the B&M Cyo, plus their E-werk rectifier, plus a cache battery it doesn't seem so bad.
Nobody yet seems to know if the AXA includes any sort of cache battery - and it lacks the handlebar mounted switch of the B&M, but at €73 here it is in the same price bracket as the Cyo or Philips which lack the USB port (and of course the built in rectifier circuitry)


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## middleagecyclist (5 Dec 2012)

Tynan said:


> e179 just for the light, dynamo hub on top?


Ahh, but the joy of 'free' electricity when you are moving. Brilliant light and charging ability with just the turn of your wheels (and cheaper then some of these big battery MTB jobbies that provide just a few hours of light per charge). Oh, and I believe the new lights coming out later in 2013 (maybe in time for LEL?) will also double up as a touchpad and make you a nice cup of tea as well!


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## Tynan (5 Dec 2012)

yes yes, especially to the tea, still a fair bit of dosh though, and I'm pleased you put the commas around the free

1400km of some degree of drag too init


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## arallsopp (11 Dec 2012)

Edwardoka said:


> Right now I'm rubbish at climbs (because my power to weight ratio is terrible) I have poor cardiovascularity (which I'm confident will improve with training), but my recovery time is probably going to be the major obstacle for me in terms of purely physical challenges on an undertaking of this magnitude.


 
Howdo Ed,

Training will bring confidence and capability. You'll need both, and I'm still not sure which is the most important... One thing for sure, if you're getting time to recover during LEL, you're doing far better than I ever did  

Hope to see you on the road, yes?

Andy.


----------



## Edwardoka (11 Dec 2012)

arallsopp said:


> Howdo Ed,
> 
> Training will bring confidence and capability. You'll need both, and I'm still not sure which is the most important... One thing for sure, if you're getting time to recover during LEL, you're doing far better than I ever did
> 
> ...


 
Hi Andy,

I certainly hope so!

As for the recovery time, I didn't mean be sufficiently recovered so that I was even remotely fresh every day, just be sufficiently recovered so that I can actually get back on the bike at all!


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## stevevw (18 Dec 2012)

I am half thinking of riding Edinburgh to London (well Watton at Stone) over three days at the end of March as 3 x 200's DIY's
As part of LEL training and to see how I feel riding three days on the trot and to have a look at the return route. Train up to Edinburgh on Thursday 28th March, I will try and find Youth Hostels or B&B's for each night stop. So any of you fancy it send me a PM and we can maybe sort something out.


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## middleagecyclist (19 Dec 2012)

stevevw said:


> I am half thinking of riding Edinburgh to London (well Watton at Stone) over three days at the end of March as 3 x 200's DIY's


Interesting. I'm planning to ride Thirsk to Edinburgh as a DIY300k as prep for the LEL and part of an SR, likely sometime around April/May. Can't join you for your 3x200k's but if anyone wants to ride with me they are very welcome. I'll post more details when I have a date and confirmed the route.


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## stevevw (19 Dec 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> Interesting. I'm planning to ride Thirsk to Edinburgh as a DIY300k as prep for the LEL and part of an SR, likely sometime around April/May. Can't join you for your 3x200k's but if anyone wants to ride with me they are very welcome. I'll post more details when I have a date and confirmed the route.


 
Would be interested if you started in York only another 40k. I can get a train from Stevenage direct to York and I guess any of those in London could easily do the same.


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## oldfatfool (19 Dec 2012)

Edwardoka said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> I certainly hope so!
> 
> As for the recovery time, I didn't mean be sufficiently recovered so that I was even remotely fresh every day, just be sufficiently recovered so that I can actually get back on the bike at all!


The idea is to not bother getting off the bike


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## middleagecyclist (19 Dec 2012)

stevevw said:


> Would be interested if you started in York only another 40k...


_Only_ another 40k! I could be persuaded but it's getting nearer a 400k. I'll look at the route and see how much time i am allowed from the wife. I am fitting this around work and family you know...


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## tubbycyclist (19 Dec 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> _Only_ another 40k! I could be persuaded but it's getting nearer a 400k. I'll look at the route and see how much time i am allowed from the wife. I am fitting this around work and family you know...


 
May as well ride to York and make it a 600


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## middleagecyclist (19 Dec 2012)

tubbycyclist said:


> May as well ride to York and make it a 600


You coming as well then?


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## mcshroom (19 Dec 2012)

I'm pretty certain you can get through trains to Thirsk from London (Grand Cental run them). If not then it's only one change at York


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## JohnTCC (19 Dec 2012)

stevevw said:


> I am half thinking of riding Edinburgh to London (well Watton at Stone) over three days at the end of March as 3 x 200's DIY's
> As part of LEL training and to see how I feel riding three days on the trot and to have a look at the return route. Train up to Edinburgh on Thursday 28th March, I will try and find Youth Hostels or B&B's for each night stop. So any of you fancy it send me a PM and we can maybe sort something out.


 
Uumm..... I am not too far from you and this could be really good training for LEL


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## Nebulous (20 Dec 2012)

You mean I'm going to need to train for it???


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## martint235 (20 Dec 2012)

Nebulous said:


> You mean I'm going to need to train for it???


Nah. I'm not. Seriously, this will be easy. Not a walk in the park obviously, unless your walk in the park is 1440km in 4 days. 

Personally, and it's up to you, I don't think you can train for this. I won't be doing anything special apart from a hint from zigzag to avoid coffee for a few weeks (enhances its effect). Ride your bike, a lot, do LEL. Pick up medal.

YMMV


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## Tynan (27 Dec 2012)

martint235 said:


> Ride your bike, a lot.


 
ride your bike a lot !== training?


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## vorsprung (4 Jan 2013)

Entries for the 2013 London - Edinburgh - London 1400km audax open tomorrow.

My blog here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/london-edinburgh-london/ has an account of how it went for me in 2005, in case anyone would like to read yet another report of how it goes


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## martint235 (4 Jan 2013)

vorsprung said:


> Entries for the 2013 London - Edinburgh - London 1400km audax open tomorrow.
> 
> My blog here https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/london-edinburgh-london/ has an account of how it went for me in 2005, in case anyone would like to read yet another report of how it goes


 Thanks for that. Now I can't decide whether or not to be terrified. Oh well it's too late to start worrying about it now.


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## vorsprung (4 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> Thanks for that. Now I can't decide whether or not to be terrified. Oh well it's too late to start worrying about it now.


 
My little story of LEL 2005 shouldn't terrify: I got to a control and there was nowhere to sleep but I managed to ride the next day. My light broke but it got fixed in the end. I wasn't that fit and I was on a slow bike but I still finished with 8 hours in hand


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## martint235 (4 Jan 2013)

vorsprung said:


> My little story of LEL 2005 shouldn't terrify: I got to a control and there was nowhere to sleep but I managed to ride the next day. My light broke but it got fixed in the end. I wasn't that fit and I was on a slow bike but I still finished with 8 hours in hand


 Sorry I should have added a smiley. 

I'm continuously moving between a state of terror and a "how hard can it be?" state anyway. I'll be entering first thing in the morning regardless. My main thinking is that a. I get fed a lot and b. there will be other people around and therefore it won't be as punishing as last year's ride to Nelson on my own.


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## Edwardoka (4 Jan 2013)

Out of curiosity, how quickly has the event sold out in the past?
Christmas profligacy has put the entry fee beyond my means, at least until payday


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## JoeyB (4 Jan 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Out of curiosity, how quickly has the event sold out in the past?
> Christmas profligacy has put the entry fee beyond my means, at least until payday


It has never sold out as far as I'm aware, but I believe numbers rise at every event.


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## PpPete (4 Jan 2013)

But there are considerably more spaces this year than on previous LELs.
The official limit is 750 but they will overbook in the expectation of cancellations and, I believe, with contingency plans to accomodate more than 750 anyway.
I shall be entering at sparrow fart though, as got to be up early for the first of the year's 200s.


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## jefmcg (4 Jan 2013)

Entries opening early! Tonight in less than 7 hours.

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=66966.0


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## DCLane (4 Jan 2013)

I've thought about this, but it won't happen this year. However, 2017 will be a probability.


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## London Edinburgh London (4 Jan 2013)

Yep, entries open at 10pm tonight

http://londonedinburghlondon.com/enter


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## Tynan (4 Jan 2013)

and 11pm in France ...

I'm told


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## oldfatfool (4 Jan 2013)

Hmm 2 hours to decide wether to commit, 300km a day for 5 days, 11000m of descent, how hard can it be? On the + side at least it being the UK the weather should be dry warm and windless


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## oldfatfool (4 Jan 2013)

PpPete said:


> But there are considerably more spaces this year than on previous LELs.
> The official limit is 750 but they will overbook in the expectation of cancellations and, I believe, with contingency plans to accomodate more than 750 anyway.
> I shall be entering at sparrow fart though, as got to be up early for the first of the year's 200s.


 
Just noticed they have increased capacity to 900 riders. The odds of finishing last have just widened


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## middleagecyclist (4 Jan 2013)

I'm in!


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## JoeyB (4 Jan 2013)

Entered!!!


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## PMarkey (4 Jan 2013)

No turning back now .

Paul


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## oldfatfool (4 Jan 2013)

£219 lighter

Now added camping and the commemorative jersey and gillett, another 170+


----------



## Ashaman42 (4 Jan 2013)

I'm in. And panicking. And £313 lighter of wallet (I went for the camping near the start). And panicking. And planning my 'qualifying rides'....And panicking.

Mostly panicking.  In a good way.


----------



## middleagecyclist (4 Jan 2013)

PMarkey said:


> No turning back now


You've got to turn back at Edinburgh I think!


----------



## Trickedem (4 Jan 2013)

I'm in.  5 months to think about bag drops


----------



## tubbycyclist (4 Jan 2013)

I am in - and over 400 entries in the first 30 mins according to the organisers over on yacf!


----------



## martint235 (4 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Just noticed they have increased capacity to 900 riders. The odds of finishing last have just widened


In the T&C (you did read the T&C didn't you? ) it says when they reach 850 riders they will start a waiting list but will only take people from the waiting list when cancellations mean they have fewer than 750 riders.

Anyways I'm in.


----------



## Ashaman42 (4 Jan 2013)

I'm eating all my white chocolate coated pretzels to celebrate getting in.


What do you mean it's too early to start carbo loading?


----------



## Tynan (4 Jan 2013)

in too, pressure over for a few months


----------



## oldfatfool (4 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> In the T&C (you did read the T&C didn't you? ) it says when they reach 850 riders they will start a waiting list but will only take people from the waiting list when cancellations mean they have fewer than 750 riders.
> 
> Anyways I'm in.


T&C is that similar to G&T??

Some parts of the site say 750, the enter page says 900 and the drinks page says 850?

Anyways they have my money now.


----------



## PMarkey (4 Jan 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> You've got to turn back at Edinburgh I think!


----------



## PpPete (4 Jan 2013)

They've sold over 400 places - in the first half hour of entries being open.

Training starts tomorrow.


----------



## arallsopp (4 Jan 2013)

401 now, at least...


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (4 Jan 2013)

I'm not sure whether to go for this or not. I've got so much on this year with 2 uni courses and looking for work for the end of September. Plus every time I pay for something it seems to jinx my health this last few years.


----------



## arallsopp (4 Jan 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> I'm not sure whether to go for this or not. I've got so much on this year with 2 uni courses and looking for work for the end of September. Plus every time I pay for something it seems to jinx my health this last few years.


 
I can't tell you whether to go for it or not, mate. (Except that you should go for it.)


----------



## JoeyB (4 Jan 2013)

Jinxed my arse.... Go for it and break the trend!


----------



## jefmcg (4 Jan 2013)

600 entries now!


----------



## StuAff (4 Jan 2013)

Good luck everyone! Hopefully I'll be providing company for some of you on training rides.


----------



## redflightuk (4 Jan 2013)

650


----------



## stevevw (5 Jan 2013)

Stu you not entered?
John have you?
I have :-)


----------



## redflightuk (5 Jan 2013)

stevevw said:


> Stu you not entered?
> John have you?
> I have :-)


Yep, i'm in.


----------



## London Edinburgh London (5 Jan 2013)

We're actually taking 950 entries now.

There are about 200 places left. I suspect that these will sell out before Saturday evening.


----------



## arallsopp (5 Jan 2013)

Well,


London Edinburgh London said:


> We're actually taking 950 entries now.
> 
> There are about 200 places left. I suspect that these will sell out before Saturday evening.


 
I don't understand. I put 140 pages of discouragement in....


----------



## martint235 (5 Jan 2013)

arallsopp said:


> Well,
> 
> I don't understand. I put 140 pages of discouragement in....


He did. I even paid for a copy of the discouragement. Rain, hills, more rain! 

BTW this Yad Moss thing, I will get up it in 39/25 won't I?


----------



## JohnTCC (5 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> He did. I even paid for a copy of the discouragement. Rain, hills, more rain!
> 
> BTW this Yad Moss thing, I will get up it in 39/25 won't I?



I am not taking any chances I ordered a triple chainset after reading Andy's book


----------



## stevevw (5 Jan 2013)

I am taking even less of a risk and am having a bespoke bike built with Triple chainset and disc brakes to winch me up and slow me down.


----------



## stevevw (5 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> BTW this Yad Moss thing, I will get up it in 39/25 won't I?


 
You could always walk with me


----------



## StuAff (5 Jan 2013)

stevevw said:


> Stu you not entered?
> John have you?
> I have :-)


Not me, Steve. I could do it, I'm reasonably confident of that- just lack the inclination.


----------



## JoeyB (5 Jan 2013)

It occurred to me that I'm going to need to man up on hills as I don't have a triple or even a compact crankset!


----------



## mcshroom (5 Jan 2013)

Oops. 

Good luck all of you who entered. Lying in this morning was a bad idea. Oh well, I'm going to try and help at one of the controls (probably Brampton/Eskdalemuir) so hopefully I'll see you all there.


----------



## JoeyB (5 Jan 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Oops.
> 
> Good luck all of you who entered. Lying in this morning was a bad idea. Oh well, I'm going to try and help at one of the controls (probably Brampton/Eskdalemuir) so hopefully I'll see you all there.


Are you on a reserve list or are you not too fussed?


----------



## mikep (5 Jan 2013)

London Edinburgh London said:


> We're actually taking 950 entries now.
> 
> There are about 200 places left. I suspect that these will sell out before Saturday evening.


 

Desperately trying to enter- Web page says 'try again in a few hours' -- Will there be more places or is it now definitely full ? Thank you


----------



## JoeyB (5 Jan 2013)

mikep said:


> Desperately trying to enter- Web page says 'try again in a few hours' -- Will there be more places or is it now definitely full ? Thank you


Says on YACF forum they are sold out. Also states that there is no reserve list currently as they are already over subscribed by a couple of hundred.


----------



## mcshroom (5 Jan 2013)

It doesn't look like there is a reserve list: -



> LEL is sold out.
> 
> We took 950 entries in 11 hours and 47 minutes. There are probably another 15 or so entries in limbo that we'll add to the start list.
> 
> ...



I was dithering about helping or riding anyway, so this has just made my decision for me. I have a few other plans for this year. I'd like to have a go at an SR, I'm planning on riding the three local C-to-C routes I haven't done yet (C2C, Reivers and W2W), and I'm tempted to do another bigger tour such as Dover-Durness so I think I'll be busy enough


----------



## JoeyB (5 Jan 2013)

I want to do an SR and LEL will make it an SR 2500!


----------



## mcshroom (5 Jan 2013)

That will be a very impressive achievement. I hope you do it and good luck


----------



## mikep (5 Jan 2013)

Thanks for reply--- I wasn't quick enough-


----------



## oldfatfool (5 Jan 2013)

I have bunged down a 8 ~ 9 request for starting, out of interest any plans to have a cyclechat 'team' to set off at the same time?


----------



## martint235 (5 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> I have bunged down a 8 ~ 9 request for starting, out of interest any plans to have a cyclechat 'team' to set off at the same time?


I'm doing the London Prologue first but then I'm down for an 8am start.


----------



## arallsopp (5 Jan 2013)

I hear rumour of 7 VMs on the line, so I'll probably try to co-ordinate my efforts to at least start with them.


----------



## middleagecyclist (5 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> I have bunged down a 8 ~ 9 request for starting, out of interest any plans to have a cyclechat 'team' to set off at the same time?


I'm doing the prologue and the earliest start. Happy to meet up and say hello but not sure about riding as a 'team' as we'll likely all have differing speeds and plans. I want to be riding in my comfort/endurance zone and not trying to keep up with a group unless it suits me at the time.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jan 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> I'm doing the prologue and the earliest start. Happy to meet up and say hello but not sure about riding as a 'team' as we'll likely all have differing speeds and plans. I want to be riding in my comfort/endurance zone and not trying to keep up with a group unless it suits me at the time.


I agree. I intend to be social but I'm going to be riding at my own speed as I've set myself targets in Plan A.

Plan B in to finish if I have to crawl round at 9mph.


----------



## middleagecyclist (6 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> Plan B in to finish if I have to crawl round at 9mph.


I like your plan B. This is my plan A as it happens


----------



## PpPete (6 Jan 2013)

As a matter of interest how are you planning to get to the sart of the prologue?
I thought about it, wouldnt have minded the extra 20k, but 40km and getting up at 4 am to ride down from the campsite seemed like a step too far.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jan 2013)

It's a 45 minute ride for me to Buck House. One of the reasons I'm doing the prologue is that it's far easier to get from home to there than to go direct to Loughton


----------



## Trickedem (6 Jan 2013)

I didn't think the prologue through. I put in for a 10am start, but I don't fancy riding 20kms from London then hanging around for a couple of hours. I will either get a lift to Loughton or ride up from Woolwich.


----------



## JoeyB (6 Jan 2013)

I decided against the prologue, it just complicates things for me. I just want to focus on getting to the start and cracking on!


----------



## jefmcg (6 Jan 2013)

Trickedem said:


> I didn't think the prologue through. I put in for a 10am start, but I don't fancy riding 20kms from London then hanging around for a couple of hours. I will either get a lift to Loughton or ride up from Woolwich.


You can change your start time from the riders area on the LEL page, and then I assume you'll get that time because, from http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/eventinfo "We will give prologue riders the earliest start times for the main event."


----------



## oldfatfool (6 Jan 2013)

Fair enough, just wondered if we where going to have a cyclechat mass start as they promise to get 'teams' off at the same time. Didn't expect to ride the full 1420k as a chaingang, though if anyone wants to tow me round then that would be most welcome

Did think about the prologue but as mentioned don't fancy a 4 am start to do an extra 40k on top. Would like an early start time though to maximise daylight hours.


----------



## redflightuk (6 Jan 2013)

JoeyB said:


> I decided against the prologue, it just complicates things for me. I just want to focus on getting to the start and cracking on!


+1.


----------



## JohnTCC (6 Jan 2013)

Also +1


----------



## ianrauk (6 Jan 2013)

Very best of luck to all those that have signed up.


----------



## Ian H (6 Jan 2013)

Here's a message from the organisers:-

Some news about entering LEL.

We are still processing entries, and clearing up problems with a few payments from some countries. Unless this is you, there are no more places available. We have already taken 150 entries more than we planned.

We are going to aim to increase our start line from 750 to 900 riders. We feel this is the largest field we can manage this time. 

We are opening a waiting list of 100 places. This list is available to Audax UK members at first, until 5pm Sunday 13 January. If you would like a place on this list, email us your name and membership number to info@londonedinburghlondon.com.

We'll draw a lottery to pick 100 places in order. 

You must pay in full for a place on the list. If we receive a cancellation then the first person in line will take their place automatically. 

If there are any places left after this we will then offer a further lottery for them.

You can leave the list for a full refund at any time. After 31 May, we will close the list and refund any remaining members.


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## oldfatfool (6 Jan 2013)

100 waiting list places being made available to AUK members. http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67054.0 


Edit : Beaten to it


----------



## Tynan (6 Jan 2013)

15st on a steel frame with pannier and a double

no serious hills I read and am told, Yad Moss long and high but steady I read and am told


----------



## JoeyB (6 Jan 2013)

Tynan said:


> 15st on a steel frame with pannier and a double
> 
> no serious hills I read and am told, Yad Moss long and high but steady I read and am told


We'll see, we'll see.


----------



## mcshroom (6 Jan 2013)

Well I've now applied for the waiting list lottery


----------



## martint235 (7 Jan 2013)

I might ride up for a look at Yad Moss just to reassure myself.


----------



## arallsopp (7 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> I might ride up for a look at Yad Moss just to reassure myself.


You'll see it twice on the route, mate. No need to jump ahead. 

Oh, and with no control in Alston this time around you'll have plenty of time to spot it too. 
Barnard Castle is probably higher than Brampton by no more than 250 feet, but (IIRC) Yad Moss is ~ 1500ft above either.


----------



## martint235 (7 Jan 2013)

arallsopp said:


> You'll see it twice on the route, mate. No need to jump ahead.
> 
> Oh, and with no control in Alston this time around you'll have plenty of time to spot it too.
> Barnard Castle is probably higher than Brampton by no more than 250 feet, but (IIRC) Yad Moss is ~ 1500ft above either.


You know I hate surprises though


----------



## Trickedem (7 Jan 2013)

martint235 said:


> You know I hate surprises though


 When RB58 and I cycled up Yad Moss, he decided to wait at the top for me, which was very kind. We had been climbing for a VERY long time, so it was nice to stop, catch a breath and have a chat. A white van went by and about 5 minutes later we set off. As we rounded the corner we were faced with the real climb....away in the distance at the top of a mahoosive great mountain was a tiny little white van. 
It isn't so steep, but it is long and when you have cycled a long way already it is tough. I can't wait.


----------



## Tynan (7 Jan 2013)

Trickedem said:


> When RB58 and I cycled up Yad Moss, he decided to wait at the top for me, which was very kind. We had been climbing for a VERY long time, so it was nice to stop, catch a breath and have a chat. A white van went by and about 5 minutes later we set off. As we rounded the corner we were faced with the real climb....away in the distance at the top of a mahoosive great mountain was a tiny little white van.
> It isn't so steep, but it is long and when you have cycled a long way already it is tough. I can't wait.


 
eh?

what is it with cycling and pretending hills aren't really hills, I crawled desperately up Chinoor Hill, granted at night, solo, in thick fog but hated it all the way, that was described to me in advance as 'a long drag but ok'

I'd call it now bloody steep and bloody long


----------



## JohnTCC (7 Jan 2013)

Thanks for that I am really looking forward to it


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## mcshroom (7 Jan 2013)

To an extent hills are hills. I climb like a stone and hate the barstewards (which isn't that useful round here), but I know that if you gear low enough and keep slogging at it long enough you eventually get to the top. It worked with the Lecht and the Cairnwell anyway and I had touring luggage for those.

If I get on the ride my main problem will be making enough time on the flat sections to carry the slow averages on the hills I expect, rather than climbing them in themselves.


----------



## oldfatfool (8 Jan 2013)

Look on the positive side, we finish at the same point we start, for every meter of uphill effort, there is a free meter of downhill.


----------



## middleagecyclist (8 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Look on the positive side, we finish at the same point we start, for every meter of uphill effort, there is a free meter of downhill.


That's my thinking too. With all the net height gains and losses it will actually be flat when we do it. (I must keep telling myself this)


----------



## oldfatfool (8 Jan 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> That's my thinking too. With all the net height gains and losses it will actually be flat when we do it. (I must keep telling myself this)


 
Looking at the early drafts of the route its not far off to be fair, If the mapping software is anywhere near accurate we are only looking at 8,500m of ascent, and 2,400 of that is in the first 200k after Edinburgh. http://www.routeyou.com/group/view/4928/lel2013.en


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## middleagecyclist (8 Jan 2013)

Now that people have places and training will begin in earnest for many, I was wondering if a seperate thread - "LEL Training" or some such - would be worthwhile starting to share how things are going. Whadya think?


----------



## zigzag (8 Jan 2013)

re: yad moss.. when i rode lel last time i wasn't very clued up about the route or cycling in general. somewhere near eskdalemuir (on the way out) i've asked another rider (who looked british and more experienced), where is that dreaded yad moss that some of the riders kept mentioning? "we went over it yesterday!" he replied with a smile. eh?!


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## martint235 (8 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Look on the positive side, we finish at the same point we start, for every meter of uphill effort, there is a free meter of downhill.


Yeah........ The descent from Toys Hill in Kent into Brasted is fantastic. Unfortunately it doesn't stop the climb being a b***ch!!!


----------



## tubbycyclist (8 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Look on the positive side, we finish at the same point we start, for every meter of uphill effort, there is a free meter of downhill.


 
..unless of course you're thinking of riding fixed (I am definitely not in that group - need all the help I can get).


----------



## middleagecyclist (8 Jan 2013)

PpPete said:


> As a matter of interest how are you planning to get to the sart of the prologue?
> I thought about it, wouldnt have minded the extra 20k, but 40km and getting up at 4 am to ride down from the campsite seemed like a step too far.


I'm going to come down on the train the day before and stay in hotel within easy pedalling of BH.


----------



## frank9755 (8 Jan 2013)

Tynan said:


> eh?
> 
> what is it with cycling and pretending hills aren't really hills, I crawled desperately up Chinoor Hill, granted at night, solo, in thick fog but hated it all the way, that was described to me in advance as 'a long drag but ok'
> 
> I'd call it now bloody steep and bloody long


 
I think you were misled: Chinnor Hill is not that long but it is pretty steep.


----------



## Tynan (10 Jan 2013)

thanks Frank, finally someone else that has heard of it, it was a lot steeper in the dark and foggy, plus I got lost and sperated on the other side although that didn't make the hill steeper

zigzag, stop with the faux modesty noob stuff


----------



## Sam T (11 Jan 2013)

I've ridden over Yad Moss too, on a touring bike with 2 panniers. It's long, sure, but it's not that hard. Just keep plodding up.


----------



## Trickedem (11 Jan 2013)

A quick tip for anyone who fancies doing the prologue. Travelodge have some cheap rooms available in Central London on the Saturday. I got one for less than £40.
I have put my club down as Cycle Chat and have elected for the earliest start time. Does anyone fancy starting together?


----------



## mcshroom (11 Jan 2013)

Apparently over 90% of the field have put in for an early start, so just be warned that you may be shuffled onto a later start if they have to.


----------



## martint235 (11 Jan 2013)

Trickedem said:


> A quick tip for anyone who fancies doing the prologue. Travelodge have some cheap rooms available in Central London on the Saturday. I got one for less than £40.
> I have put my club down as Cycle Chat and have elected for the earliest start time. Does anyone fancy starting together?





mcshroom said:


> Apparently over 90% of the field have put in for an early start, so just be warned that you may be shuffled onto a later start if they have to.


I understand that those riding the prologue get priority for the early starts though. I'm starting the prologue at 6am and then hoping to leave Loughton at 8am.


----------



## Trickedem (11 Jan 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Apparently over 90% of the field have put in for an early start, so just be warned that you may be shuffled onto a later start if they have to.


but they are all now realising that it will be a PITA to get there from Loughton other than by riding, so I think the numbers will drop quite a bit.


----------



## oldfatfool (12 Jan 2013)

I have also put down for the early start, but not the prologue, happy to put down Cycle chat as my team for a group start.


----------



## PMarkey (12 Jan 2013)

Decided on the latest start possible as I don't really fancy getting caught up in the crush at the first couple of controls, though if I'm honest I'm wondering if doing LEL as a perm wouldn't suit me better as the thought of riding a route with 999 other riders does leave me feeling a little uncomfortable (Yes I know I should get out and meet people more )


Paul


----------



## jefmcg (13 Jan 2013)

Remember, if you are an Audax member and missed out on a place you have until 5pm today (Sunday) to sign up for the waiting list.

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67226.msg1395219


----------



## chrislov (14 Jan 2013)

Registered- so anyone else planning to do 1400km on a cargo bike?

First weekend of preparation went well consisting of a) setting up the charity page for my cargo bike LEL b) finding that there is a larger sprocket for the cargo bikes nexus 7 speed hub (23t should help with the lumpy bits) c) trying to decide if the new B&M dynamo light with USB charging output will power my IPhone and Garmin or go for the Tout Terrain Plug II (I don't think I will be doing much sleeping so will need to charge on the go)

So all there is to do now is loose 8kgs, get some many many more Kms on the cargo bike and try and get people to part with money to sponsor me and help fund the training of assistance dogs for people with disabilities

London Edinburgh London on a cargo bike
www.justgiving.com/lel2013
Chris Lovitt is fundraising for Canine Partners for Independence


----------



## martint235 (14 Jan 2013)

Nope I'm doing it on a bike bought specifically. You have reminded me to set up my charity page though.


----------



## middleagecyclist (14 Jan 2013)

I'm going to be blogging about my LEL prep' and so have recommenced my existing blog. Probably of little interest to anyone but me but if you want to follow then the link is in my signature.


----------



## oldfatfool (14 Jan 2013)

Me neither, will be sticking to the steel tourer even if it does weigh in at over 14kg. Also got a charity page https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/helpforhounds


----------



## redflightuk (14 Jan 2013)

I'll be on the bent in the pic left.
No charity page (yet).


----------



## JohnTCC (16 Jan 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Me neither, will be sticking to the steel tourer even if it does weigh in at over 14kg. Also got a charity page https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/helpforhounds


Looks like a horse to me


----------



## middleagecyclist (16 Jan 2013)

OK. LEL jersey. Wear it _only_ after completing the event or don it ASAP? I know which i'll be doing but curious as to others plans


----------



## PpPete (16 Jan 2013)

So long as the weather isn't scorchio so as to make it too sweaty, I'll prob wear mine at the start, and swop it out with something else from my southernmost dropbag, then put it back on southbound for the final run in to the finish.
OTH, as I get a free jersey anyway, I might just get a gilet and wear that for the start, especially if July weather lives up to recent years.


----------



## jefmcg (16 Jan 2013)

If I get to the finish line, I'm never taking it off again.


----------



## martint235 (17 Jan 2013)

I have to confess that in most cases I'm an "as soon as it arrives" kind of guy. However with the LEL jersey I'm a bit torn. I certainly won't be wearing it before I set off but I may wear it for the event. Or I may wait until (if) I've completed.


----------



## oldfatfool (17 Jan 2013)

If I complete I might be really sad and have the jersey framed along with the medal


----------



## Nuncio (17 Jan 2013)

Only after I complete it, or at a push (literally) when I've calculated that I'm near enough that even with a 'fatal' mechanical I can walk to the finish within the allotted time will I consider wearing the 2013 jersey. And if I DNF I'll probably give it away - couldn't bring myself to wear it. This is a personal view - I don't care what other riders do with theirs. I'll wear my 2009 version proudly though, if I can bring myself to smash the glass of the frame.


----------



## Greenbank (17 Jan 2013)

I framed the Brevet Card, medal and bike dossard (same with PBP'11). Paperchase do a cheap square frame (meant for LP sleeves) that works well.

Jersey gets used all the time now, but on the event I saved it for the last day. Likewise a DNF would have seen me sell it or give it away.


----------



## PpPete (23 Jan 2013)

Looks like I'm going to be organising customised printed name badge for riders from ANOTHER PLACE, and the chap that is doing the printing has kindly offered to do one for CC as well. Depending on numbers I anticipate cost of just less than £2 each. Any takers?










Prototype design zip-tied to a Barley


----------



## middleagecyclist (23 Jan 2013)

Oohh, oohh. Yes please. Now should I go for CC or YACF?


----------



## JoeyB (23 Jan 2013)

Yes please...CC


----------



## mcshroom (24 Jan 2013)

I'm in!!! 

Now just the small matter of riding 1400km


----------



## PpPete (25 Jan 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I'm in!!!
> 
> Now just the small matter of *training to* ride 1400km


FTFY


Seriously though - I think it's brilliant that the organisers have managed to cope with the unexpectedly high demand AND still find places for those AUKs who were taken by surprise by the speed of the initial sell-out.
Danial & team .... Take a bow !


----------



## Trickedem (25 Jan 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Oohh, oohh. Yes please. Now should I go for CC or YACF?


How about a third design featuring logos from both sites? 
I may get one of each and swap them over at Edinburgh


----------



## redflightuk (25 Jan 2013)

JoeyB said:


> Yes please...CC


+1 please.


----------



## middleagecyclist (26 Jan 2013)

Trickedem said:


> How about a third design featuring logos from both sites?
> I may get one of each and swap them over at Edinburgh


Or one double sided one? Alternate on each day?


----------



## yello (27 Jan 2013)

Thinking about this, even though I'm normally more of an incognito sort of person. I'm undecided as to whether CC or yacf.


----------



## jefmcg (27 Jan 2013)

I am was a Cc'er first - though bikeforums before that and way back to aus.bicycle in the days before the web - but as an Audaxer, I am a YACFer, lured there last year by Pppete 


PpPete said:


> Wouldn't want to seem disloyal to Cyclechat, so I shall whisper this.....there is a whole sub-board devoted to LEL with already lots of questions posed and answered over on YACF


If I get one of these, I'll probably stick with YACF and my forum name + human name. 
But I'm not sure if I really want anything extra to wrangle on the way.


----------



## TheDoctor (2 Feb 2013)

I don't see that it's "disloyal" to mention YACF, PpPete 
I've been on a few YACF rides and had a thoroughly good time.
Lots of people have dual nationality when it comes to cycling fora, and why not?


----------



## PMarkey (11 Feb 2013)

PMarkey said:


> No turning back now .
> 
> Paul


Well it doesn't look like this year is going to happen , My wife is going to be having a knee replacement around the end of June/beginning of July so it looks like nursing duty's for me unless she manages to get an earlier date ,well theirs always 2017 I suppose .


Paul


----------



## yello (11 Feb 2013)

PMarkey said:


> Well it doesn't look like this year is going to happen


 
That's bad luck. Had you already signed up?


----------



## martint235 (11 Feb 2013)

You can have my place in 2017 cos I won't be doing it twice!!


----------



## Pale Rider (11 Feb 2013)

PMarkey said:


> Well it doesn't look like this year is going to happen , My wife is going to be having a knee replacement around the end of June/beginning of July so it looks like nursing duty's for me unless she manages to get an earlier date ,well theirs always 2017 I suppose .
> 
> 
> Paul


 
Paul,

I wouldn't chuck your hand in too soon.

A couple of people I know who had knee ops were up and about in no time - very little nursing required.

Obviously I'm no doc, but you and the wife might be pleasantly surprised at the speed of recovery.


----------



## PMarkey (11 Feb 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> Paul,
> 
> I wouldn't chuck your hand in too soon.
> 
> ...


 
That's good to know , I plan to leave the decision to cancel until the last possible minute and hope for the best .



yello said:


> That's bad luck. Had you already signed up?


 
Signed up , and everything organized thought everything was going to well 



martint235 said:


> You can have my place in 2017 cos I won't be doing it twice!!


 
 

Paul


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## PpPete (14 Feb 2013)

Re the nameplates mentioned upthread

We've done a test print !






The only difference betweeen these and the final version is that the final version will use _Italic_ typeface

you can choose two lines of text as above,
or just one, which gives a bigger font size, like this:





Tandems can have a "double width" version like this:





The schizophrenic can use the double-width version to declare their allegiance to both CycleChat and YACF.





All above the are photographed against a Carradice Barley so as to give a sense of scale.

You can play with the various options to see what your chosen text will look like using:
Powerpoint Template http://sdrv.ms/Ytff0r
Open Office Template http://sdrv.ms/Ytfqcf

If you want to print your own off those and laminate it yourself, you are quite welcome to do so, but it won't look as good as the professionally printed version.
Cost for one off single width version is just £1.80 including UK postage. Second and subsequent copies to same address £1.50/ea
Double width is £3.50 inc UK postage (£2.50/ea for second & subsequent copies)

Payment by Paypal as Gift / Personal Payment to:





Specify your personalisation and provide postage address on this form:
http://www.jotformeu.com/PpPete/LelNameplateOrderForm
Before 20 April.

Any questions feel free to PM me (although don't expect an instant answer as I'm away for 10 days from tomorrow).


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## yello (18 Feb 2013)

Jersey/gilet - anyone thinking of NOT getting the official jersey?

I probably will but I'm aware that I don't need another jersey, and probably would rarely wear it. It'll be a souvenir and sit on the shelf with the others.

There's also talk on the French randonneurs site of a French LEL jersey!


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## Ashaman42 (18 Feb 2013)

I realised today it is somewhat less than 6 months to go till this madness starts. Still had it in my head it was _ages_ away. PANIC STATIONS!!!


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## JoeyB (19 Feb 2013)

Yep I'm slightly panicing too! Need to up the mileage!


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## arallsopp (19 Feb 2013)

Yep... Time to get a training plan into place, I feel. Those of you who aren't members of the LEL cyclechatters mycyclinglog team should think about joining. Its nice to gauge your mileage* against other efforts 

* unless your mileage is more than mine, in which case you'll undermine my confidence


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## Trickedem (8 Mar 2013)

How many of the cycle chat riders are doing the Prologue? I have my team down as Cycle Chat and we have a chance of starting together


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## Mista Preston (8 Mar 2013)

arallsopp said:


> Yep... Time to get a training plan into place, I feel. Those of you who aren't members of the LEL cyclechatters mycyclinglog team should think about joining. Its nice to gauge your mileage* against other efforts
> 
> * unless your mileage is more than mine, in which case you'll undermine my confidence


Lupin !


----------



## oldfatfool (8 Mar 2013)

Trickedem said:


> How many of the cycle chat riders are doing the Prologue? I have my team down as Cycle Chat and we have a chance of starting together


 
Too much hassle getting from the camping to Buck house for me to bother + I want to be off reasonably early so asked for a 6.45 kick off, if you are wanting to start early happy to put in 'cycle chat' as team name.


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## jefmcg (9 Mar 2013)

arallsopp said:


> Yep... Time to get a training plan into place, I feel. Those of you who aren't members of the LEL cyclechatters mycyclinglog team should think about joining. Its nice to gauge your mileage* against other efforts
> 
> * unless your mileage is more than mine, in which case you'll undermine my confidence


Third on the list current *AND* the slowest. Add in the painful elbow, and I'm a triple threat!


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

I've just been having another look at Pete's spreadsheet.... every which way I program in sleep stops at least half of them land in daylight hours. Should I just sleep when the schedule tells me to or should I be aiming for night time sleeps, daytime riding...?

I don't have a problem riding at night, but i would imagine its tougher when you are tired.


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## tubbycyclist (15 Mar 2013)

JoeyB said:


> I've just been having another look at Pete's spreadsheet.... every which way I program in sleep stops at least half of them land in daylight hours. Should I just sleep when the schedule tells me to or should I be aiming for night time sleeps, daytime riding...?
> 
> I don't have a problem riding at night, but i would imagine its tougher when you are tired.


 
Suspect that you need to reconsider your ride schedule. I think some night riding is inevitable but figure that some stops from 2am-5am are probably going to happen at the speed I ride at. It is definitely slower at night, so I would avoid a schedule that actively plans for night riding.

If you are very fast then I can see how there would be a potential issue - but I would have thought that most people would end up with a Pocklington/Thirsk 1st night and after that it kind of sorts itself out, unless you are starting at 10.30.


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

I was aiming for Thirsk as a first stop but I would land there around 8am...which means a daytime sleep. After 24hours of riding I'm sure that won't be an issue mind.


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## frank9755 (15 Mar 2013)

Thirsk is only 400km in - you'll get there sooner than that.

If you've not done the distance before, trying to plan things too tightly might not be helpful as you can't know how you will feel after XX hours of riding.


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

frank9755 said:


> Thirsk is only 400km in - you'll get there sooner than that.
> 
> If you've not done the distance before, trying to plan things too tightly might not be helpful as you can't know how you will feel after XX hours of riding.


 
I've left Pete's 30min stop at each contgrol in the spreadsheet so I guess that might throw the times a bit. Hear what your saying on the tight planning, but I do want some sort of rough plan to work to so I know I'm not going to miss control closing times!


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## yello (15 Mar 2013)

The spreadsheet things are cool. It's fun playing around with speeds and times etc.


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## JoeyB (15 Mar 2013)

yello said:


> The spreadsheet things are cool. It's fun playing around with speeds and times etc.


 
Its all very easy on the spreadsheet lol


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## PpPete (16 Mar 2013)

yello said:


> The spreadsheet things are cool. It's fun playing around with speeds and times etc.


 
Some find it "fun", but it's meant to be a useful tool - *not an instruction sheet*, *not a recipe for success either.*
Only *you* can decide, after riding your first 400 and 600 **, whether Thirsk is a realistic objective before a sleep stop.

** Always assuming you are planning an SR before July - which is not essential, but generally thought to be a "good idea".


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## JoeyB (27 Mar 2013)

Received the routesheet today..... Reality check!


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## yello (27 Mar 2013)

*


PpPete said:



Some find it "fun", but it's meant to be a useful tool - not an instruction sheet, not a recipe for success either.

Click to expand...

*I hope you didn't take offence at my remark, I wasn't meaning to be dismissive. I meant only that I enjoy playing with scenarios and I'm indebted to people like yourself who enable me to do so.

Fortunately, I've done long rides before so I know roughly what to expect of myself.I tend not to plan as such, making my decisions on the road, but it none-the-less remains useful to have a look at the timings in advance.


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## PpPete (28 Mar 2013)

Absolutely no offence taken yello.
I was being a bit mischievious in my response TBH, because like you I actively enjoy playing with scenarios, and also building the tools that enable me to do so. I am aware that makes me a bit of a nerd...
The intention in my response was to "prick the bubble" of any newbie who might be tempted to treat it as a "way to do it" .


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## compo (30 Mar 2013)

I have volunteered to help with the LEL, and have just learnt that I have been allocated to the Loughton control so will see some of you brave souls at the start.


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## Pale Rider (31 Mar 2013)

compo said:


> I have volunteered to help with the LEL, and have just learnt that I have been allocated to the Loughton control so will see some of you brave souls at the start.


 
Lousy Loughton, eh Compo?

I'm at Barnard Castle in County Durham, known locally as Barney.

Not clear what I'm doing yet, although shunting beds around in a van appears a possibility.


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## compo (31 Mar 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> Lousy Loughton, eh Compo?
> 
> I'm at Barnard Castle in County Durham, known locally as Barney.
> 
> Not clear what I'm doing yet, although shunting beds around in a van appears a possibility.


 
Shunting beds around was hinted at in an email I received. Whatever we end up doing has got to be easier than cycling London to Edinburgh and back!


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## Greenbank (2 Apr 2013)

JoeyB said:


> I've left Pete's 30min stop at each contgrol in the spreadsheet so I guess that might throw the times a bit. Hear what your saying on the tight planning, but I do want some sort of rough plan to work to so I know I'm not going to miss control closing times!


 
30 mins per control really isn't much at all, it might be easy for the first few controls but you'd be doing well to keep that up over the whole ride.

I finished LEL'09 in 115h. My moving average was almost bang on 20kph so that's 70 hours of actual cycling. I had 10 hours of sleep, so that leaves 35 hours stopped at controls.

Here's how much time I had in hand during LEL 2009:-






Note that the odd bit at 1100km is where the GPS ran out of batteries about 20km from Thorne and I didn't bother stopping to fix it. The next time the GPS was turned on (with fresh batteries) I'd been stopped for 3 hours and was just leaving the control.

The first day was tailwind assisted, that was a 6 hour stop at Thorne (320km on the way out) with big rest, shower, 3 hours of sleep (should have faffed less and either slept more or just gone back out again). 2nd night's stop at Eskdalemuir with 2 hours sleep. Small stop at Traquair, bigger stop at Dalkeith (720km) for lots of food, shower, etc, another short stop at Traquair on return and then ~3 hours at Eskdalemuir again (no sleep) before we realised the weather wasn't going to get better. Sufferered with sleep dep on the stage to next stage which included a short (50min) sleep in a church porch in Brampton (~850km). Crawled on to Alston where I got food and then 3 hours of sleep in a proper bed at the control, but that stop took 5 hours in total.

From there it was a case of bimbling along and stopping as long as we were in the time limit. The drop down Yad Moss bought us enough time to have a pub lunch in Middleton-In-Teesdale (920km), then the controls at Middleton-Tyas (960km), Coxwold (1020km), puncture stop not long after that, and then Thorne. Think I had another 3 hour stop there after a shower.

Final day was a relatively fast blat along the flat-lands using up spare time at controls to relax and chat with others, impromtu roadside picnic somewhere near Kimbolton if I remember correctly.

I wouldn't have normally sailed so close to the wind (as far as time limits go) but the bad weather up in Scotland had meant a 2 hour extension being granted (which I had no intention of using) and so that became the new contingency buffer. In the end I finished with 1h40m to spare after a very relaxing final section from Gamlingay with an increasingly large bunch of riders from all over the world.

The graph above kind of makes sense to me given the conditions (tailwind on day 1 and bits of day 2, torrential rain day 3, tiredness creeping in, second wind when back in the flatlands and the finish line in sight) but I would have had no chance predicting that in advance!


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## Greenbank (2 Apr 2013)

P.S. I'm generally at the back of the field on most Audaxes rarely finishing with more than an hour in hand (definitely not if it's properly hilly).


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## JoeyB (2 Apr 2013)

Excellent post Greenbank, many thanks!


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## oldfatfool (3 Apr 2013)

Well I hope that is a good omen, been given the start time I requested 6:45, so at least I will have plenty of company as the rest of the feild pass along the way


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## mcshroom (3 Apr 2013)

Doubt I'll actually see you then. I'm off at 10am so I'll never catch you


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## tubbycyclist (3 Apr 2013)

oldfatfool said:


> Well I hope that is a good omen, been given the start time I requested 6:45, so at least I will have plenty of company as the rest of the feild pass along the way


 
My start time too, planning to wave to people as they pass and resisting the urge to hang on to faster wheels..


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## middleagecyclist (3 Apr 2013)

Got my start time of 09.45hrs. Also got my LEL bike today!


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## PMarkey (3 Apr 2013)

10:15 for me following my normal practice of starting at the back so I can't get dropped


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## arallsopp (3 Apr 2013)

PMarkey said:


> 10:15 for me following my normal practice of starting at the back so I can't get dropped



Yep. That's my preferred mode also. Anyone you meet should have less time in hand than you. If they're not panicking why should you?


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## JoeyB (4 Apr 2013)

Got my 09:30 start time


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## PpPete (8 Apr 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Got my start time of 09.45hrs. Also got my LEL bike today!


 
Mrs PpP and I are also on the 9:45 "express" (not!)

By the way - I have had very few takers for the Cyclechat version of the nameplate suggested upthread. I know some of you may have ordered the YACF version instead, but even numbers on there are somewhat lower than expectations.

Can I just remind everyone that sending a PM or posting on this thread along the lines of "put me down for one" will NOT get you a nameplate.

You must specify your personalisation and provide postage address on this form:
http://www.jotformeu.com/PpPete/LelNameplateOrderForm *before 20 April*.
Sorry to have to be prescriptive about this, but it is much the easiest way of making sure all the details correct and getting them in the right format for the printer. 

Cost for one off single width version is just £1.80 including UK postage. Second and subsequent copies to same address £1.50/ea
Double width is £3.50 inc UK postage (£2.50/ea for second & subsequent copies)

Payment by Paypal as Gift / Personal Payment to:


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## middleagecyclist (8 Apr 2013)

Thanks Pete for the reminder. Just sent my order and payment. Cheers


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## frank9755 (16 Apr 2013)

I've decided not to do LEL. Have just sent in an email to request cancellation of my place. It doesn't fit terribly well with work requirements this summer and I found I wasn't feeling enough enthusiasm for it, versus other priorities. 

Good luck to those who do ride!


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## PpPete (16 Apr 2013)

Sorry to hear you won't be there Frank


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## mcshroom (16 Apr 2013)

Sorry to hear that Frank

I keep thinking of pulling out, most recently after turning back 85km into a 300 perm on Saturday as I got sick and fed up of the head wind and rain. 

Still pushing to prove to myself I can do it at the moment though.


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## yello (16 Apr 2013)

frank9755 said:


> I've decided not to do LEL.


 
ditto. I cancelled out last week. I simply haven't got the motivation. I did a 200 a couple of weeks back but felt little enthusiasm for it, and certainly no desire to ride further. I gave it a week's thought but, in the end, I had to be honest with myself. I realised it wasn't going to happen so let the organisers know pronto.

But don't let me put others off. I'm having head problems generally at the moment and LEL became a victim. With motivation and solid preparation, LEL is great fun and a hugely enjoyable experience. Bonne route!


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## tonyg52 (16 Apr 2013)

This weather has certainly tested my resolve to ride. Riding into a fierce a headwind and sleet on the double Dutch I started to lose the will to live, sick of being cold/(sticky) and wet in 2011 I did the same ride in shorts.
Rode the Elyndd last weekend and order was restored to the universe a great ride in the heart of wales the ELan valley never fails to inspire me, now looking forward again to LEL.


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## tubbycyclist (16 Apr 2013)

It has been a tough March and some very bitterly cold rides, the easterly wind seemed to provide a constant sapping of energy. Despite a couple of 200s there were points over the Easter weekend when I started to contemplate whether it was worthwhile. Like tonyg52 though I rode the Elenydd. Much of this ride was in a new area for me, on unfamiliar roads, challenging climbs and cracking scenery. The end result is feeling good about long distance cycling again and I am looking forward to the next big ride.


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## PMarkey (16 Apr 2013)

My wife's knee replacement operation has been cancelled (the consultant signed her off before she could arrange the op so she has to be referred by her GP again ) so my LEL is back on but like most I have struggled to get out on the bike and have managed only three 200's so far this year and DNF'ed one of them though still managed 100 miles on that ride , Hopefully the weather will be kinder this weekend for the Plains 300 .

Paul


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## arallsopp (17 Apr 2013)

frank9755 said:


> I've decided not to do LEL





yello said:


> ditto. I cancelled out last week.


 
Sorry to hear you won't be there guys, but glad to hear decisions are made. Teetering on the edge of a decision like this can play havoc with mental states, and can ruin many a good ride. I battled with it myself about a month back. Will I. Won't I. Every time I went out, my mind was churning on that, rather than letting me enjoy the thing I love. Almost ruined it. In the end, I've opted for my 2009 approach. Don't really think about it until its too late, you're in Scotland, and home is a (longer than you'd imagine but considering what you've just done actually kinda short) ride away.


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## yello (18 Apr 2013)

arallsopp said:


> Sorry to hear you won't be there guys, but glad to hear decisions are made.


 
Thanks. It wasn't an easy decision believe me because I did want to ride. 2009 was a brilliant experience for me, one I was really looking forward to repeating. I did PBP in 2011 and that just increased my liking for LEL as an event. I'll not bother with PBP again (been there, done that) but LEL sort of became my friend. It would have been interesting to see if that feeling would have been retained this time with so many more riders, but I'll not find that out now!

But, as I said, I had to be honest with myself. I've hardly been riding recently. For me to enjoy LEL I knew I had to have a certain level of physical readiness. I simply couldn't see me getting there. But like Arnie, "I'll be back"!


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## compo (19 Apr 2013)

I had an email from the LEL team today with an attachment which I am sure is interesting if I could only open it.

the file is titled: image001.jpg-01CE3D25.B7332630. When I try to open it it says it is a "B7332630 file."

Does anyone know how to open it. Google is no help.


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## yello (19 Apr 2013)

you could simply rename the file, image001.jpg at a guess BUT...

I'd wait to see if any other registered riders have received the same email.


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## tonyg52 (19 Apr 2013)

It's just the LEL logo.


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## compo (19 Apr 2013)

Thanks Yello, and to Tony who satisfied my curiosity!

PS. I just found it opens in Internet Explorer. I use Firefox. Tony was correct.


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## middleagecyclist (22 Apr 2013)

@PpPete. I noticed you have put a list of paid up nameplaters on YACF and i'm not listed. Is this just for those on that esteemed forum? Did you get my order? I'd hate to miss out. I think CCers should be told


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## PpPete (23 Apr 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> @PpPete. I noticed you have put a list of paid up nameplaters on YACF and i'm not listed. Is this just for those on that esteemed forum? Did you get my order? I'd hate to miss out. I think CCers should be told


 
Your order was received - a few hours after I posted that list on YACF.

I didn't bother posting a list on here because there were so few CC takers.


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## middleagecyclist (23 Apr 2013)

PpPete said:


> Your order was received - a few hours after I posted that list on YACF.
> 
> I didn't bother posting a list on here because there were so few CC takers.


You mean...my nameplate will be really rare and of possible interest to future historians? I will mount it with great care and polish it often!


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## arallsopp (26 Apr 2013)

Damn. Been putting off this post for a while, but time to face up to it.

I'm out. Sorry all. Would have loved to join you in LEL2013. There were so many of you I was looking forward to meeting, and many more that I hoped to ride with. I got hit and dragged by a car on Wednesday morning. The velo is dead and I'm scraped up. Driver admitted liability, police have details, insurance and rest will sort most things. Timing all wrong, unfortunately.

I've asked Danial if he can use me as a volunteer. If you see a man with zipties and a smile, that's me. 

Sorry.

Andy.


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## JoeyB (26 Apr 2013)

arallsopp said:


> Damn. Been putting off this post for a while, but time to face up to it.
> 
> I'm out. Sorry all. Would have loved to join you in LEL2013. There were so many of you I was looking forward to meeting, and many more that I hoped to ride with. I got hit and dragged by a car on Wednesday morning. The velo is dead and I'm scraped up. Driver admitted liability, police have details, insurance and rest will sort most things. Timing all wrong, unfortunately.
> 
> ...


 
Never has there been such a need for a post 'Dislike' button as now.

Really sorry to hear this chap, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it was your account of 2009 that committed me to signing up for 2013! Hope you feel better soon....


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## DCLane (26 Apr 2013)

Bad news. Hope you're better soon.


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## PpPete (26 Apr 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> You mean...my nameplate will be really rare and of possible interest to future historians? I will mount it with great care and polish it often!


 
Absolutely !

BTW
Orders for the nameplates are now definitely CLOSED. 
I have sent just the order off to the printers and there are no plans for a second print run.


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## PpPete (26 Apr 2013)

JoeyB said:


> Never has there been such a need for a post 'Dislike' button as now.
> 
> Really sorry to hear this chap, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it was your account of 2009 that committed me to signing up for 2013! Hope you feel better soon....


 
Likewise, Andy's account (I read it as it was originally posted in installments in these pages - long before publication was mooted) got me into thinking that longer distances were indeed possible for a mere mortal who at the time had never ridden more than 100km in a day. Started me on a journey to a place where I at least felt comfortable entering LEL 2013, even if one can never be sure of eventual success.


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## Mr Fitz (26 Apr 2013)

Really bad luck Andy. I too am another 2013 LEL entrant who is only in because of your book. Your account inspired me to believe that, with enough will, another audax virgin might just make it through. Sorry I won't be seeing you on your bike, but maybe catch you at a control. All the best for a quick recovery.


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## middleagecyclist (26 Apr 2013)

@arallsopp. Really bad news. _Barring Mechanicals_ wasn't _the_ thing that persuaded me to give LEL a go but it was the thing that made me think i might actually be able to do it. Hope you mend soon. Here's to 2017?


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## arallsopp (27 Apr 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Here's to 2017?



Here's to 2013 first, bud. Out of the ride but not out of the event. Seeing you all come by is going to be awesome!


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## DCLane (27 Apr 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Here's to 2017?


 
In my case - yes. If it runs in 2017 I intend to enter.


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## StuAff (27 Apr 2013)

And don't forget PBP 2015, too


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## middleagecyclist (27 Apr 2013)

StuAff said:


> And don't forget PBP 2015, too


Oohh. There's a thought. I'll see how LEL goes first though


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## mcshroom (27 Apr 2013)

Just catching up on this thread. That's a real shame Andy  
was another one inspired into audaxing by your account of 2009 (both from the thread and the book)

I hope to see you at a control and I hope everything mends quickly.


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## PpPete (30 Apr 2013)

Re the "cyclechat" nameplates for LEL ....
like this






Due to staffing levels at the printers the actual print run will not happen for a few days yet.

So, any of you who inadvertently missed the deadline, you have another 24 hours to get your order in.

Please specify your nameplate test and provide postage address on this form:
http://www.jotformeu.com/PpPete/LelNameplateOrderForm

Cost for one off single width version is just £1.80 including UK postage. Second and subsequent copies to same address £1.50/ea
Double width is £3.50 inc UK postage (£2.50/ea for second & subsequent copies)

Payment by Paypal as Gift / Personal Payment to:


----------



## PpPete (2 May 2013)

Orders for nameplates now closed for good, no more chances.


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## mcshroom (6 May 2013)

Well this weekend has left me with serious doubts about this ride. I did a 150 and a 200 back to back in the Southern Highlands, and riding from Banchory to Braemar I just couldn't keep going at anything like a useful pace. Partly I'd massively underdone the hydration over the two days but I just didn't seem to have the drive. 

If I can't handle 360km over two days, how am I going to average 300+km every day for a week?

I'll make my final decision after the Lincoln in a fortnight, but I may just have to accept that this fat bloke isn't capable of completing LEL


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## middleagecyclist (6 May 2013)

mcshroom said:


> ...I'll make my final decision after the Lincoln in a fortnight, but I may just have to accept that this fat bloke isn't capable of completing LEL


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## arallsopp (6 May 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I'd massively underdone the hydration over the two days ... I may just have to accept that this [thirsty] bloke isn't capable of completing LEL



The web is awash (forgive the pun) with metrics mapping hydration to performance, motivation and mental state. I'd advise against reading too much into a skewed test ride where you've hobbled yourself. Perhaps the purpose of this weekend was to remind you to drink properly?


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## middleagecyclist (6 May 2013)

@mcshroom. You had a bad couple of rides and already know you were a bit crispy - of course you weren't performing well. So what? Lesson learned. Now stop doubting yourself and make sure you drink well on the Lincoln.


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## STMS (6 May 2013)

As long as you convince your brain you can do it your body has to go along with it.


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## Greenbank (9 May 2013)

mcshroom said:


> ... but I just didn't seem to have the drive.
> 
> If I can't handle 360km over two days, how am I going to average 300+km every day for a week?


 
You'll get a lot of drive on the event itself as you'll have hundreds of others to ride with you, chat (in various languages!) with you and encourage you; plus great encouragement and support at each of the controls.

A 200 is about my limit of solo riding (any further and I'd probably succumb to the DNF fairie). All of my other DIY rides (a few 300s, a 400 and a 600) have either been with company or a DIY ride that extends a calendar event.

Remember the trick of Audax is to only think about the ~80km to the next control. That's generally easy, it's just a 4 or 5 hour ride.

Lather, rinse, repeat...


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## vorsprung (11 May 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Well this weekend has left me with serious doubts about this ride. I did a 150 and a 200 back to back in the Southern Highlands, and riding from Banchory to Braemar I just couldn't keep going at anything like a useful pace. Partly I'd massively underdone the hydration over the two days but I just didn't seem to have the drive.
> 
> If I can't handle 360km over two days, how am I going to average 300+km every day for a week?
> 
> I'll make my final decision after the Lincoln in a fortnight, but I may just have to accept that this fat bloke isn't capable of completing LEL


 
You can do it if you want to. Consider:

1) it's still a couple of months to go. You can loose 1/2Kg. Easy.
2) the main reason to do "practice" rides is to discover what you have to do with eating/drinking/resting/padded gloves. You know better now
3) the southern highlands is probably lumpier than much of LEL, as you will discover if you are going to a ride at Lincoln
4) it's LESS THAN 300km per 24 hours including sleep:
1418km / 116 hours = 12.224 km/ph
24 hours * 12.224 kph = 293.37 km per 24 hours


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## oldfatfool (19 May 2013)

Unfortunately I have also made the decision to withdraw from LEL.

I had hoped that physio had cured a knee problem that as been bugging me for the last few months but despite turning the Lincoln 400 into a 300 to build the mileage by 250k I could barely spin the pedals, hills where a nightmare.

I have offered my services at a control so you could still have to put up with me one way or another


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## yello (19 May 2013)

I saw your post on yacf off. It's a tough decision to make and you have my sympathies and best wishes. I think you've made the right call - your own health comes first and I don't think you can go into something like LEL with niggling injuries and/or doubts.

I wonder how many others have pulled out to date? I'm sure the organisers wouldn't give those figures for fear of inevitable questions from the waiting list.


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## jefmcg (19 May 2013)

The organisers allowed more people to sign up than they want to handle, on the assumption that there would be a few dropouts. They had a waiting list (of Audax UK members) that they allowed to sign up rather than leaving them in limbo.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67770.msg1405006#msg1405006


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## yello (19 May 2013)

So in effect there is no waiting list.


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## mcshroom (19 May 2013)

Made it round the LIncoln 400 this weekend. We started in torrential rain for the first 4 hours and I was seriously thinking of heading for York at that point. Took me a little over 26 hrs in total as my legs went on strike at about 330km and I was struggling to get up mild inclines (this ride was over 100 miles longer than my previous furthest). Ended up taking over 4 hrs to do the last 50km from Ripon to Aldborough.

Now I need to see how my body feels in a day or two and decide what I'm going to do.


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## yello (19 May 2013)

Sounds to me like no decision is needed. You got around in time and in difficult conditions. Score one for the head and determination. Result 

It's to be expected to feel tired and to need to rest. I mean, you didn't think it'd be easy now did you?


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## mcshroom (19 May 2013)

No not really. I always said that I would decide after this ridethough, and I want to see if any bits drop off overnight before making any decisions.


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## PpPete (21 May 2013)

So we're waiting to if any bits fell off @mcshroom ?
I was ready to pack around 120km into the BCM 600, but somehow got it back together again to finish earlier than last year's near _lanterne rouge_ performance.... despite only an hour's kip at King's.
Need new mitts as hands hurt, and really must lose a bit of weight, the "fuel tank" doesn't work.


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## mcshroom (21 May 2013)

I think the weight seems to be a fixture for me. Two days afyer finishing I have slight numbness in my left little finger and some tendonitis in the top of my left foot. Otherwise it's surprising how little discomfort I've felt really.

Thankfully my mates are the caring sort so tonight's group ride includes 450m climbing and a 1:5  
Should be an intetesting test of my recovery.


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## middleagecyclist (23 May 2013)

Guess what came for me in the post today? Thanks @PpPete. It is very good quality and just the right size. I shall display it with pride on the Llanfair PG this weekend.


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## mcshroom (28 May 2013)

For the avoidance of doubt I'm insane in! See you on the start line before I fall off the back


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## middleagecyclist (28 May 2013)

mcshroom said:


> For the avoidance of doubt I'm insane in!


Great news. I was wondering if you were going to give it a go. Do you have a 600 planned pre LEL?


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## mcshroom (28 May 2013)

I'll be riding the 'Holl and Back' at the end of June. How about you? Well done on completing the Llanfair PG by the way 

I know it doesn't make much difference, but having missed out on my 300 perm in April due to weather, I'm hoping to fit one of those in this month as well so I can get an SR series under my belt before LEL kicks off.


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## middleagecyclist (28 May 2013)

I'm doing 'Holl and Back' too - but as a perm a few days earlier if plans work out. I would really like to do the cal' event but other commitments prevent it. However, i do have the offer of a bed and feed nr Melton Mowbray on my perm so it ain't all bad


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## STMS (1 Jul 2013)

< 4 weeks and i need some speed, I did a 300 (Old Roads Perm) as fast as i could (Vorsprung a couple of weeks earlier than you suggested). Bike needs some work too. Panic panic panic. I could do with 1 or 2 kph more, and wrists not hands seem to be the problem on the long rides?


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## martint235 (1 Jul 2013)

I'm starting to panic a little bit now. No rides done this year over 200 miles. Done a few around the 150 mark but not since April. And I'm on call for one of the remaining weekends so just two weekends to come up with something


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## Sixpackorkeg (2 Jul 2013)

after help here guys - loaded up the gpx files from the website onto my garmin 705 (have ner used it for nav before).
recce'd the ride in a car last weekend and after about 2o miles of each leg following the pink line, my garmin zoomed out to 'world' level and I don't know why ?
Also sometimes the pink line veered off the route, to the extent it disappeared off the screen - no idea why that would be either ?

Any steer appreciated as in panic mode as the lanes down south are guaranteed to lose me and not a fan of the route cards.

On a separate note for the ones thinking they're not fit enough . my longest ride is 180 miles (once), will squeeze in a 150 tomorrow and a 150 thursday but other than that my miles have been very low. first audax ever, but will be at the start line - we'll be fine..... :-)


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## martint235 (2 Jul 2013)

It depends how you're trying to navigate them. The files I downloaded from the website all turned out to be just tracks rather than routes (I'm actually going through them all manually remapping them as routes so at least I'll be confident in the middle of the night!) and that may have made a difference on your unit.

LEL will be my first ever audax too. I have done a couple of 200+ milers but none this year. Furthest this year is about 160 I think. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. And anyway it's only 5 days, how bad can it be!!!


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## Sixpackorkeg (2 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> It depends how you're trying to navigate them. The files I downloaded from the website all turned out to be just tracks rather than routes (I'm actually going through them all manually remapping them as routes so at least I'll be confident in the middle of the night!) and that may have made a difference on your unit.
> 
> LEL will be my first ever audax too. I have done a couple of 200+ milers but none this year. Furthest this year is about 160 I think. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. And anyway it's only 5 days, how bad can it be!!!



Interesting... Do you fancy sending them on an e-mail? I've got very basic mapping on my 705 so I basically just want something that in essence is following the roads (not breadcrumbs as such).

Am riding dalkeith to Barnard castle tomorrow, so will get a chance to try out a crs conversion of the files and see if that works. Riding back up north on Thursday.


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## martint235 (2 Jul 2013)

Unfortunately I've only finished northbound at the moment. Hopefully going to get southbound mapped tomorrow then I've just got to do route converter on them to put my own labels on the corners


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## ComedyPilot (2 Jul 2013)

Well, due to lack of funds in January, and lack of training in Feb, Mar, and Apr I won't be doing it.

I will however be at the Thirsk control to cheer you all up and on as you go north and south.

Do say hi, won't you?


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## martint235 (3 Jul 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> Well, due to lack of funds in January, and lack of training in Feb, Mar, and Apr I won't be doing it.
> 
> I will however be at the Thirsk control to cheer you all up and on as you go north and south.
> 
> Do say hi, won't you?


If I a. Recognise you and b. Am alert enough to say "hi" I will


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## PpPete (3 Jul 2013)

Are we going to put our rider numbers on here, so that others can track our progress?
(or in a separate thread for convenience?)


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## martint235 (3 Jul 2013)

Should probably have a new thread I suppose


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## martint235 (3 Jul 2013)

Created a thread but can't link on Tapatalk


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## mcshroom (3 Jul 2013)

Link here: -
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lel-rider-numbers-and-start-times.134536/


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## martint235 (4 Jul 2013)

Right let see if this works. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4625425/LEL/LEL1.gpx  If it does, it should give you access to the GPX files I've made that combine tracks and routes (there's only one there at the mo). LEL1 is northbound leg 1


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## Trickedem (5 Jul 2013)

How's everyone's prep going? I am doing the Rutland Weekend 300km tomorrow as my final long ride. I am starting to feel a bit more confident now as the earlier problems I had with my knee seemed to have resolved themselves.
I am now starting to get a few last things in place, but there is a lot to do:
Buy another Li-ion battery pack.
Replace my bottom bracket.
Buy and possibly fit new brake blocks
Replace pedals, possibly
Take Audax seriously and buy my first Carradice bag.
Decide what to put in my bag drops.
Find and eliminate the creaking that occurs when pedalling the saddle. (I have lubricated and tightened the saddle mounts, so hope this will work)


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## martint235 (5 Jul 2013)

Trickedem said:


> How's everyone's prep going? I am doing the Rutland Weekend 300km tomorrow as my final long ride. I am starting to feel a bit more confident now as the earlier problems I had with my knee seemed to have resolved themselves.
> I am now starting to get a few last things in place, but there is a lot to do:
> Buy another Li-ion battery pack.
> Replace my bottom bracket.
> ...


 Errmm. I haven't done any Audax. I've done very few long rides. I don't have any bag drops. I do have a Carradice so that's ok. And I've bought a new chain and cassette for Lelly.

New Etrex ordered and I've done all my routes.


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## Chuffy (21 Jul 2013)

I'll in the Edmonton Travelodge on Saturday. I'm booking a table in a nearby Turkish restaurant at 7pm for me and (my native guide) Tdr1nka but if anyone else happens to come along, they'd be welcome to join us. There's a pub nearby (King William) for a couple of medicinal sleeping draughts afterwards.


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## mcshroom (21 Jul 2013)

I'm in the Enfield Travelodge. I seem to remember @mmmmartin is there as well


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## middleagecyclist (21 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I'm in the Enfield Travelodge. I seem to remember @mmmmartin is there as well


Me too! See you there Saturday.


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## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

It's going to rain.


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## jefmcg (22 Jul 2013)

I'm used to cycling in the rain.


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## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

jefmcg said:


> I'm used to cycling in the rain.


 
I know but for 4 days solid......


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## PMarkey (22 Jul 2013)

Liquid sunshine


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## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

PMarkey said:


> Liquid sunshine


 
God I hate optimists!


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## PMarkey (22 Jul 2013)

Hehehehe


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## mcshroom (22 Jul 2013)

Sounds good to me. It would lower my risk of DNF through hay fever


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## Philip Whiteman (25 Jul 2013)

For anyone that has not seen the following message on YACF, Danial has announced some route changes.:


Don and iddu have just completed a test ride of the LEL route. This has uncovered a few things to be concerned about, as well as some good news.

We're going to put in place a small diversion north of Thirsk. We'll update the files on the website in the next couple of days, and let you know when this is done. We'll also signpost the diversion, so if you're not able to update your mapping, just follow the diversion signs.

The worst of the grot south of Eskdalemuir has been patched up. But it hasn't been completely repaired so we're still going to put out warning signs. We also found repairs happening around Castle and some lovely new surface at Toot Hill.

We've also found something that might be a bit grim near Great Easton, but we've not decided what to do about that yet. 

We'll keep you updated on here.


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## yello (25 Jul 2013)

I just wanted to wish all the CCers doing LEL all the best. I hope everything goes your way and above all else you* frekkin' enjoy it*!

I will be thinking of you all (not individually, that'd just be creepy). Keep on pedalling mes amis!


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## chrislov (26 Jul 2013)

LEL on a cargo bike to raise funds for training dogs to help people with disabilities charity- please sponsor me at www.justgiving.com/lel2013


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## Baggy (26 Jul 2013)

Good luck to all, may the tailwinds be kind to you!


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## yello (27 Jul 2013)

...and remember to pack the waterproof. It looks like you're going to need it.

Fingers crossed for you all that the forecast is either wrong or that you at least miss the worst of it.


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## mcshroom (27 Jul 2013)

Wayerproof packed - but rainlegs forgotten 

Currently on a train heading south to register and getting nervous.


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## yello (27 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Wayerproof packed - but rainlegs forgotten


 
Don't let it bother you. Worse things in life that wet legs. I personally couldn't get on with rainlegs anyway. At least it's not your shoes! I always forget something and did once have to borrow shoes (and pedals) on an audax!

It's natural to get nervous, so don't let that worry you either. Once you're on the road then you'll be fine. I envy you in many ways. Over these next few days, LEL will be your entire life and it becomes easy to ride - because that's all there is to do! Enjoy!


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## Telemark (27 Jul 2013)

All the best to all you crazy LEL-ers!  
I hope the weather coming across from France today arrives early and rains itself out before the start... 

I'll be doing a couple of long shifts Monday/Tuesday at the Edinburgh control ... if you are wearing any identifiable CC kit or name plates on your person, I'll definitely say hi (suspect I'll be saying to everybody arriving anyway   ).... I'll definitely know @mcshroom (any rough idea of your ETA in Edinburgh, all going as expected?), don't think I've met any others on the list....
Try and be kind to the the volunteers, even if you are very tired, they'll probably just as tired  as you are, some of them appear to be working round the clock, and we'll all be rushing round trying to make your LEL experience as good for you as we can ...

Bon voyage! 

T


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## ComedyPilot (27 Jul 2013)

Just getting my gear ready to go to Thirsk control tomorrow morning.

Good luck all of you and see you in YORKSHIRE


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## phil_hg_uk (27 Jul 2013)

Good luck to you all I admire you all immensely.

I also think you are all totally bonkers


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## martint235 (27 Jul 2013)

It's all very serious now. I have a brevet card and a jersey!!!


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## oldfatfool (27 Jul 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> Just getting my gear ready to go to Thirsk control tomorrow morning.


Ahah another volunteer for Thirsk.Just dug out the tent and what have you but if the weather arrives I think I will be dossing down in the staff room  See you tomorrow CP and hopefully every other LELer at some point!


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## mcshroom (27 Jul 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Good luck to you all I admire you all immensely.
> 
> I also think you are all totally bonkers


As a rider I have to agree 

Now registered and sat in my hotel room. Lets get started 

@Telemark - I'd guess I should be in Edinburgh mid Tuesday afternoon


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## PoweredByVeg (27 Jul 2013)

Good luck all you LEL'ers  
See you all at Market Rasen


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## Telemark (27 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> As a rider I have to agree
> 
> Now registered and sat in my hotel room. Lets get started
> 
> @Telemark - I'd guess I should be in Edinburgh mid Tuesday afternoon


 
 I'll definitely be on duty from Tue lunchtime until the control closes... just don't go too fast 

 Looks like the south of England is getting a good wash just now ... I hope you are all somewhere dry and that any campers' tents are fully waterproof . We just had a tiny storm cell pass over - luckily I was in a shop when the heavens opened, and I only got wet from 'normal' rain on the way home, rather than having to swim. Now all clear & dry again...
Setting up the Edinburgh control tomorrow - hopefully mostly indoors  , as Sunday looks like a complete washout. The forecast is definitely improving lots in time for the first riders expected Monday morning.


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## Brandane (27 Jul 2013)

Good luck to you all! Might come and cheer some of you on in the borders area Tuesday/Wednesday. Not sure if it is suitable for spectators anywhere in the northern areas though, as I guess you will all be well spread out?


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## Telemark (27 Jul 2013)

Brandane said:


> Good luck to you all! Might come and cheer some of you on in the borders area Tuesday/Wednesday. Not sure if it is suitable for spectators anywhere in the northern areas though, as I guess you will all be well spread out?


 
You could always pop into the Eskdalemuir or Traquair controls on Tuesday ... who knows, they might be happy to have an extra pair of hands to help?

T


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## Brandane (27 Jul 2013)

Telemark said:


> You could always pop into the Eskdalemuir or Traquair controls on Tuesday ... who knows, they might be happy to have an extra pair of hands to help?
> 
> T


 
Might well do that! Need to see how other things pan out this week.....


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## chrislov (27 Jul 2013)

Friends and supporters 

1400km in five days on a cargo bike...

On Sunday at 1030 I start cycling and on Friday at 0730 I will stop- in between I hope to have covered 1400km and pedalled for 20 hours out of every 24hrs to Edinburgh and back (London Edinburgh London) on a cargo bike built by Harry vs Larry.

Based on a ride I did last Saturday I will be using 10,500 calories a day and cycling about 180-200 miles a day.

I am hoping to raise funds and awareness for a fantastic charity, Canine Partners, who train dogs to help people with disabilities. Their especially trained dogs can open doors, fetch items off shelves, empty the washing machine, remove socks from their owners feet as well as helping reduce isolation.

To follow my progress (tiredness and technology permitting) please take a look at my blog which is herehttps://www.facebook.com/Lelcargo (you can also see the picture of the cargo bike etc, the route etc)- you don’t need to have a Facebook page and don’t need to sign up to Facebook to see the blog

Please advertise my blog on your pages. 

To sponsor me please go towww.justgiving.com/lel2013

To find out more about the work of Canine Partners please go their websitehttp://www.caninepartners.org.uk/

Many thanks and see you again in August where I might find walking (but definitely not sleeping) a little painful.

Bw

Chris


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## StuAff (27 Jul 2013)

Good luck everyone!


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## Crackle (28 Jul 2013)

Well they're off anyhow. Rider tracking:-

http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen


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## ttcycle (28 Jul 2013)

Logged in to check on LEL progress - hope everyone is doing OK


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## yello (28 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2570519, member: 30090"]Hope it's down to a clerical error that Redflightuk has not checked into St Ives.[/quote]

Maybe a compooter glitch or somesuch. Hope so.

Is there are non obligatory non-control cakestop bewteen the start at St Ives on this year's LEL. I hope hope hope RfUK has not missed the 1st control (St Ives) thinking it wasn't compulsory.


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## yello (28 Jul 2013)

From photos on yacf, it looks like there's a decent tailwind. That's exactly what you need to lift the spirits and get the motivation fully charged.


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## craig kennedy (28 Jul 2013)

ok I am very new here. 43, not fat but not terribly fit, first cycle in over 20 years was 12 miles earlier this evening, I loved it, but boy were my legs jelly after.

Would I be capable of doing this? Do we do it for charity? more importantly, am I asking really stupid questions :-)


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## ianrauk (28 Jul 2013)

LongMartin got to Market Raisen 3/4'S hours ago..just over 11 hours


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## ianrauk (28 Jul 2013)

craig kennedy said:


> ok I am very new here. 43, not fat but not terribly fit, first cycle in over 20 years was 12 miles earlier this evening, I loved it, but boy were my legs jelly after.
> 
> Would I be capable of doing this? Do we do it for charity? more importantly, am I asking really stupid questions :-)


 


Can you cycle 880+ miles in 114 hours?

It's run every 4 years so you have plenty of time to prepare for the next one.
It's not for charity.


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## frank9755 (28 Jul 2013)

craig kennedy said:


> ok I am very new here. 43, not fat but not terribly fit, first cycle in over 20 years was 12 miles earlier this evening, I loved it, but boy were my legs jelly after.
> 
> Would I be capable of doing this? Do we do it for charity? more importantly, am I asking really stupid questions :-)


 

Yes: it started today. The next one is in four years' time!


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## Baggy (28 Jul 2013)

Chuffy has made it as far as Market Rasen


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## Mad Doug Biker (28 Jul 2013)

I bought by Pug from Stevevw (rider F57), and is, I think, the only member from the lot listed above who I have met personally.
He did encourage me to do it on the Pug, but, as you can see, it hasn't happened, besides, I have surgery on Friday, so it would most likely have overlapped anyway.
I'll do it next time on the Pug Steve, next time!!

So to Steve and everyone else, GOOD LUCK!!


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## redflightuk (29 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2570519, member: 30090"]Hope it's down to a clerical error that Redflightuk has not checked into St Ives.[/quote]
10:41 check in on the card at St Ives


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

On PBP the riders' chips sometimes didn't register when they walked over the mats, suggesting a control was missed when it wasn't. Looks like the same thing here.

Keep going, everyone!


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## Trickedem (29 Jul 2013)

I'm just having a second breakfast at Pocklington. 333kms on the clock and I've had 4 hours sleep. I've not seen Long Martin and don't expect to either, he s clearly flying!


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

He probably left Pocklington while you were sleeping, so perhaps c.3 hours ahead. But he'll probably tire: no stamina, that guy ;-)
Have a good ride, Tim!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (29 Jul 2013)

Oh dear what's happened to middleaged? I hope it's a glitch.


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## yello (29 Jul 2013)

I think there might sometimes be a time/update lag or somesuch , since when I checked on PpPete around 30 minutes ago his last port of call was shown at Market Rasen at 20:54. Now he's showing Pocklington at 01:57.

Everyone seems to be going great guns! Allez allez allez!!


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## martint235 (29 Jul 2013)

At Thirsk, sleep deprived. Aiming for Edinburgh today. Emphasis on "aiming"


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## StuartG (29 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> At Thirsk, sleep deprived. Aiming for Edinburgh today. Emphasis on "aiming"


 
Remember last year it took us 5 days to get to Edinburgh on LonJog - not 2!
That was close to my limit. Hence total respect for what you are achieving. Rooting for you - and the other FNRttCers.


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> At Thirsk, sleep deprived. Aiming for Edinburgh today. Emphasis on "aiming"


 

It's a big enough target: I'm sure you won't miss! And you said on Facebook that you'd just had three hours of sleep! 

Good ride. At least you are not sitting in an office...


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

Martin Brice has got to Pocklington. Must have slept at Market Rasen. Keep it up, mmmmm!

McShroom is a couple of hours behind him.

And PorkyPete half an hour ahead

SteveVW is already at Thirsk (08:56 am Monday), just 45 mins behind Long Martin


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## 4F (29 Jul 2013)

Fantastic riding everyone , this is really inspiring me to do the next one


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## mcshroom (29 Jul 2013)

Just about to leave Pock. Lost 50 mins last night helping a rider who'd broken his collar bone and the lack of sleep is hurting. Aiming to hopefully make Brampton today but now it's just one control at a time.


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## Telemark (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Just about to leave Pock. Lost 50 mins last night helping a rider who'd broken his collar bone and the lack of sleep is hurting. Aiming to hopefully make Brampton today but now it's just one control at a time.


 
@mcshroom - saw you mentioning hayfever elsewhere, there is good news for you: MetOffice pollen count map showing "low" for all areas just north of where you are ...

 for giving an hour of your precious sleeping time to helping somebody else

T


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## ComedyPilot (29 Jul 2013)

Note to all riders. Please take extra care descending. The rains have washed lots of grit onto the roads.


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## ComedyPilot (29 Jul 2013)

From a volunteer point of view we are amazed at the speed if north bound riders. But please remember you need to rest as much as you can. One rider has been hospitalised sfter going OTT.


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## AnythingButVanilla (29 Jul 2013)

Well bloody done to everyone who's on the ride and to mcshroom for helping the injured. The lovely @jefmcg checked in to Pocklington at 5.03 this morning although I'm not sure how ahead or behind she is behind everyone else.


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Just about to leave Pock. Lost 50 mins last night helping a rider who'd broken his collar bone and the lack of sleep is hurting. Aiming to hopefully make Brampton today but now it's just one control at a time.


 

Well done! I'm sure they will give you an extension for the time spent helping the injured rider, should you need an extra hour up your sleeve at the end.


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## Trickedem (29 Jul 2013)

I'm at Thirsk. Its raining on and off, which isn't ideal. I hope to get to Brampton tonight for some sleep


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

A bit of rain is ok. But if it really sets in, it might be worth stopping sooner to dry out!

I've just had a look at the forecast and it seems like it will be nicer once you get further west. You should have a sunny evening run into Brampton, with a tailwind. If you're feeling good, it might even be worth pressing on.

There is some rain around, possibly some heavy showers around tea time tomorrow, but its a bit of a lottery as to who gets caught and who escapes.

The main weather challenge looks like being on the last quarter of the ride when the forecast is for it to be hot, and with a head wind. Drink plenty and it will be fine (the wind will at least cool you as well as slow you and dehydrate you!) but speed will be down and it will be a bit more tiring - so worth making progress up country with the wind on your back!


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## Scoosh (29 Jul 2013)

Thunderstorms here in Edinburgh just now ...  + +


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> Note to all riders. Please take extra care descending. The rains have washed lots of grit onto the roads.


 

This is a good point. The roads in the Chilterns were covered in gravel yesterday. My club had a sportive and it seemed like half the riders reported punctures + one faller with road rash. 



ComedyPilot said:


> From a volunteer point of view we are amazed at the speed if north bound riders. But please remember you need to rest as much as you can. One rider has been hospitalised sfter going OTT.


 
The tail wind is obviously pushing people's speeds up. I expect they will be going slower when you see them coming back the other way!


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2570295, member: 30090"]For reference:

06:15 Redflightuk (c5) 06:45 tubbycyclist (E56)
07:00 Stevevw (F57)
08:30 Martint235 (M51)
09:15 Trickedem (R32)
09:45 PpPete (T6) STMS (T10) MiddleAgeCyclist (T40)
10:00 mcshroom (V44)

10:00 mmmmartin (V43)

10:15 PMarkey (W8)[/quote]


OK - Monday lunchtime update
Martin Brice has just got to Thirsk. McShroom is a couple of hours behind, partly due to first aid duties.
PorkyPete going very well; probably not far from Barnard Castle now.
Long Mart has already left there: will be crossing the Pennines, probably with a few showers, and Tim D is battling across Yorkshire!

Keep going guys: this up there in excitement with watching test cricket on teletext when I was a student!

Details, and links, below:

*Rider: C5*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=C5*
*Last seen: *Barnard Castle
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 06:15:00
Kirkton 28/07/2013 14:58:49
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 19:16:07
Pocklington 29/07/2013 01:09:53
Thirsk 29/07/2013 07:17:26
Barnard Castle 29/07/2013 13:03:01
*Rider: E56*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=E56*
*Last seen: *Barnard Castle
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 06:45:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 10:56:07
Kirkton 28/07/2013 14:29:38
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 17:58:52
Pocklington 28/07/2013 23:23:36
Thirsk 29/07/2013 07:07:31
Barnard Castle 29/07/2013 11:41:49
*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=F57*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 07:00:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 11:20:06
Kirkton 28/07/2013 14:56:05
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 18:44:54
Pocklington 29/07/2013 00:30:54
Thirsk 29/07/2013 08:56:22


*Rider: M51*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=M51*
*Last seen: *Barnard Castle
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 08:30:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 12:12:40
Kirkton 28/07/2013 15:45:45
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 19:17:37
Pocklington 29/07/2013 00:27:16
Thirsk 29/07/2013 08:08:23
Barnard Castle 29/07/2013 12:36:59


*Rider: R32*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=R32*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 09:15:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 13:31:50
Kirkton 28/07/2013 17:27:39
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 21:14:28
Pocklington 29/07/2013 06:51:51
Thirsk 29/07/2013 12:26:54
*Rider: T6*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=T6*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 09:45:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 13:52:57
Kirkton 28/07/2013 17:26:39
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 20:54:24
Pocklington 29/07/2013 01:57:43
Thirsk 29/07/2013 09:34:04
*Rider: T10*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=T10*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 09:45:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 13:39:19
Kirkton 28/07/2013 17:00:57
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 20:36:09
Pocklington 29/07/2013 01:35:12
Thirsk 29/07/2013 09:45:28
*Rider: T40*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=T40*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 09:45:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 13:46:45
Kirkton 28/07/2013 17:18:21
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 21:03:13
Pocklington 29/07/2013 08:07:00
Thirsk 29/07/2013 12:08:18
*Rider: V44*

*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=V44*
*Last seen: *Pocklington
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 10:00:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 14:46:56
Kirkton 28/07/2013 19:02:42
Market Rasen 29/07/2013 00:40:04
Pocklington 29/07/2013 10:26:46
*Rider: V43*

You can share this rider tracking page by copying and pasting the following link:
*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=V43*
*Last seen: *Thirsk
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 10:00:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 14:50:30
Kirkton 28/07/2013 18:43:24
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 22:46:48
Pocklington 29/07/2013 08:28:28
Thirsk 29/07/2013 13:49:11
*Rider: W8*

You can share this rider tracking page by copying and pasting the following link:
*http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/lastseen/?rider_no=W8*
*Last seen: *Barnard Castle
*Check in History*

LocationDatetime
Started 28/07/2013 10:15:00
St Ives 28/07/2013 14:22:34
Kirkton 28/07/2013 18:25:00
Market Rasen 28/07/2013 22:03:20
Pocklington 29/07/2013 03:26:11
Thirsk 29/07/2013 07:40:39
Barnard Castle 29/07/2013 13:49:41


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## matthew (29 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> On PBP the riders' chips sometimes didn't register when they walked over the mats, suggesting a control was missed when it wasn't. Looks like the same thing here.
> 
> Keep going, everyone!


 Their not using chips, each rider has to be entered into the system by the control when their brevet is stamped. with a large glut of riders they are probably recording the rider numbers to then be entered later while the rider can be eating/sleeping.


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## mcshroom (29 Jul 2013)

Made it to Thirsk about 20 mins ago after bonking. Legs are buggered but I'm shovelling in curry and hoping for a bit of revival.


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

Well done, M
Take food to eat when you go as well. 
Ideal is to eat something every 10-15 mins and aim for 300 calories per hour - if you can!


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## yello (29 Jul 2013)

I think mcshroom has abandoned?? What happened? Poor lad.... it's a horrid horrid decision to make


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2013)

a mate of mine from work is doing the ride - he's 62 and has just gone through the brampton control at 19.57.....so thats 550km so far in 37hrs


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## mcshroom (29 Jul 2013)

I crawled from Pocklington to Thirsk and rerouted round the hills, but basically I wasn't fit enough and I couldn't make it round. 

Now I'm annoyed with myself for packing but Barnard Castle would have been my absolute limit and I'm not confident I would have managed that.


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

Bad luck! Sounds like you gave it your best shot.


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## phil_hg_uk (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I crawled from Pocklington to Thirsk and rerouted round the hills, but basically I wasn't fit enough and I couldn't make it round.
> 
> Now I'm annoyed with myself for packing but Barnard Castle would have been my absolute limit and I'm not confident I would have managed that.


 

Well you got a damn sight further than I could have got, so well done


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## frank9755 (29 Jul 2013)

Evening update:

Most CCers that I know are in the Brampton area.

Redflight has just left, half an hour behind Pete. Mart is a bit further ahead, having got there around 6pm, but Tim is going well and has now leapfrogged Martin and is an hour ahead. He was talking about sleeping at Brampton earlier on but may well have pushed on as he got there at 5pm.
Edit: Got that wrong! Tim left Barnard Castle at 5pm so he's on track to sleep at Brampton tonight.

Steve VW should be at Brampton soon - was at Barnard Castle at 2:20pm

Martin B is a bit further back but still in the hunt: he was at Barnard Castle two hours ago. Assuming he has pushed on, he'll get to Brampton for a sleep in the small hours, ready to get up at dawn and strike out for Edinburgh!

Wishing everyone a good night on the road.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2013)

Good work, everyone! Commiserations @mcshroom - you managed to get a hell of a long way. A hard decision, but from my perspective better to be annoyed with yourself for pulling out than annoyed with yourself for being worn out, in the dark, on Yad Moss.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2013)

Chuffy has literally just checked in at Brampton, good lad!  Not sure if he'll push on tonight or not...


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I crawled from Pocklington to Thirsk and rerouted round the hills, but basically I wasn't fit enough and I couldn't make it round.
> 
> Now I'm annoyed with myself for packing but Barnard Castle would have been my absolute limit and I'm not confident I would have managed that.



No need to be down on yourself, what you've achieved is still very impressive....and it's not meant to be purgatory and risk your long term health.

Well done better luck next time.


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## ianrauk (29 Jul 2013)

LongMartin just checked in at Moffat, 387 miles in, 50 miles to Edinburgh.


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## TheDoctor (29 Jul 2013)

Well done everyone!! And commiserations to Mcshroom.
It'll be there next time, so no point destroying yourself and collapsing in a wobbly heap in the middle of nowhere. In the dark.
It's *supposed* to be fun, after all...


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## StuAff (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> I crawled from Pocklington to Thirsk and rerouted round the hills, but basically I wasn't fit enough and I couldn't make it round.
> 
> Now I'm annoyed with myself for packing but Barnard Castle would have been my absolute limit and I'm not confident I would have managed that.


Commiserations. Far better that you recognised you weren't going to be able to make it & packed rather than ending up in a complete state in the middle of nowhere. There's always next time. And well done for getting that far!


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2013)

Confirmation that Chuffy is bedding down for the night - said that Yad Moss was the best section so far, but the headwind was hard work. The welcome from vorsprung was much appreciated


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## PoweredByVeg (29 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Just about to leave Pock. Lost 50 mins last night helping a rider who'd broken his collar bone and the lack of sleep is hurting. Aiming to hopefully make Brampton today but now it's just one control at a time.



Hi Mcshroom, were you one of the three riders who turned up at Market Rasen after helping the chap with a broken collar bone? Did the Chef sort you out with fish and chips?
Good work and Chapeau! for getting that far


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## Trickedem (30 Jul 2013)

I'm at Brampton going to sleep now. Bloody tired, left hand hurts, bloody saddle is creaking, one pedal is dying


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## oldfatfool (30 Jul 2013)

Sat at the control at Thirsk waiting for our first Southbound rider. Hopefully the weather will improve for the Southern leg.


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## oldfatfool (30 Jul 2013)

First rider South at Thirsk logged in at 1am


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

Breakfast update:

Basically it looks like most people got to bed at a reasonable time and will probably be on their way now. 

Redflight seems to have spent the night at Moffat: got there at 1am
Steve VW had an early night after a good day. Looks like he turned in at Brampton at 10:30. Most probably well on his way now. 
As mentioned above, LongMart made his objective of getting to Edinburgh, at 3:20am. Probably just getting up now for the T+WRbtH (he says on Facebook that he left an hour ago)
Tim was at Brampton at 11, but then posted at 12, above. Probably on his way again now. Hope the sore bits recovered overnight!
Pete got to Moffat by 1am
And MartinBrice made good time to get to get to Brampton for 2am.


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## mcshroom (30 Jul 2013)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Hi Mcshroom, were you one of the three riders who turned up at Market Rasen after helping the chap with a broken collar bone? Did the Chef sort you out with fish and chips?
> Good work and Chapeau! for getting that far


I am and he did 

I don't know what happened to the Singaporian rider but Tony (V37) checked in at Brampron at 0646


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## oldfatfool (30 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2572861, member: 30090"]That's astonishing. What type of bike were they riding and were they part of a team?[/quote]

Single Dutch chap on his own, didn't see his bike but suspect it was a CF racing m/c 

Still only 3 through Thirsk Sth atm.


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## Brandane (30 Jul 2013)

The official website is worse than useless when looking for news and updates, other than the rider tracking facility. Just as well we have CC to keep us updated . Better luck next time mcshroom; ALL of you deserve a medal for even trying it .


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

Wow - you wouldn't want that chainring to run into you, when he was pedalling at a high cadence!


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## mcshroom (30 Jul 2013)

Brandane said:


> The official website is worse than useless when looking for news and updates, other than the rider tracking facility. Just as well we have CC to keep us updated . Better luck next time mcshroom; ALL of you deserve a medal for even trying it .


There's also a tracking thread here: - https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=74364.msg1532101;topicseen#new or look for #lel2013 on twitter.

I'm on the train to Carlisle to get my car and then off to help at Barnie for a couple days


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## Mice (30 Jul 2013)

This is all fantastic stuff! Am loving the Frank975 updates - it reminds me of how exhausting it was being keyboard based trying to keep up with you (Frank), zigzag, Swarmcatcher, LoiuseL on PBP!! Totally typical Mcshroom behaviour to help someone else - brings back LonJoG memories! Keep going everyone - it's awesome!

Mice


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## mcshroom (30 Jul 2013)

I'd like to take credit @Mice but when you meet a man wandering dased along a littke counry lane with a broken collar bone then I think there's only one option. He hit a badger and he and bike were in a bad way.


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## AnythingButVanilla (30 Jul 2013)

Joan made it to Barnard Castle at 1807, Brampton at 0204 and Moffat at 0906.


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## PoweredByVeg (30 Jul 2013)

Hi mcshroom, luckily he stashed his bike and a member of the public found it and took it home, reported it to Market Rasen control and it was then retrieved the next day.


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## mcshroom (30 Jul 2013)

Glad it's been found 

If you need it the code for that lock is 3646


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## Aperitif (30 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Glad it's been found
> 
> If you need it the code for that lock is 3646


 
Well done. Just catching up with things and you did a good thing M. Your reward will come.


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## PoweredByVeg (30 Jul 2013)

Dutch rider Anco de Jong got to Market Rasen at 09:40 this morning, that's only 250'ish km to go!!

I was volunteering there Sun/Mon but am now at home


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## mcshroom (30 Jul 2013)

Not only that he looks fresh as a daisy as well!





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## GrumpyGregry (30 Jul 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Well you got a damn sight further than I could have got, so well done


@mcshroom I'll second this ^


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Jul 2013)

Mice said:


> This is all fantastic stuff! Am loving the Frank975 updates - it reminds me of how exhausting it was being keyboard based trying to keep up with you (Frank), zigzag, Swarmcatcher, LoiuseL on PBP!! *Totally typical Mcshroom behaviour to help someone else* - brings back LonJoG memories! Keep going everyone - it's awesome!
> 
> Mice


Precisely.


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## PoweredByVeg (30 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Glad it's been found
> 
> If you need it the code for that lock is 3646


It was safely stashed in the bag drop room, hope the chap is doing well.


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

Lunchtime update:

Long Mart looks to be going well. Got to Eskdalemuir already (10 mins ago). How far can he get today? Or is he going all the way? 
Redflight made it to Edinburgh at 20 past 8, after a few hours rest at Moffat. Must be on the way back now
Pete is probably having lunch at Edinburgh. Again did really well to get there half an hour ago.
SteveVW looks like he had a good rest at Brampton and now cycling through Scotland: was at Moffat at 9:20
Tim is an hour or so ahead of Steve. He must be close to Edinburgh as he was at Moffat at 8
No more word of Martin Brice since breakfast. Hope he didn't sleep in!  No, he made it to Brampton at 2am so should be showing up at Moffat shortly...


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

2573144 said:


> Quite right Marcus, well done. Is there any news on the badger though?


 


PoweredByVeg said:


> It was safely stashed in the bag drop room, hope the chap is doing well.


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## ianrauk (30 Jul 2013)

LongMartin is flying........


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## PoweredByVeg (30 Jul 2013)

Anco de Jong at Kirton!!


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## jowwy (30 Jul 2013)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Anco de Jong at Kirton!!


this guy is flying - is he going to be the first to finish or do we know if anyone else is in front of him


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## Aperitif (30 Jul 2013)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Anco de Jong at Kirton!!


 
So: 1219 kms or so. 'Assume' he started at 06:00 on Sunday morning...ergo 55 hours available. 'Assume' he's an insomniac, so sleep doesn't matter: 1219 divided by 55+/- = 22.16kph 14mph etc. Not bad, up hill and down dale with no kip.


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

He did a 45 hour PBP in 2007 (when it was very wet) so is not new to this!


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## Aperitif (30 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> He did a 45 hour PBP in 2007 (when it was very wet) so is not new to this!


 
Ah - 'you're only Jong once' - go for it! 
Hello Frank.


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

Good one, 'Teef  !


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## User10571 (30 Jul 2013)

2573488 said:


> Don't encourage him.


I think you'll find that he is self-propelled....
In other news:
MMMMMartin appears to have packed


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

User10571 said:


> MMMMMartin appears to have packed


 

Oh no!


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## 4F (30 Jul 2013)

No update from SteveVW since 
Moffat 
30/07/2013 09:20:40


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## Aperitif (30 Jul 2013)

4F said:


> No update from SteveVW since
> Moffat
> 30/07/2013 09:20:40


He's having a nap, Tony. Come on, Steve!
Meanwhile, that bloke de Jong is not so hot; he did the Kirkton to Market Rasen stretch in 2hrs 20 on the way up, and he could only manage 3hrs11 on the way back...and it's downhill! He's cracking...


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## 4F (30 Jul 2013)

SteveVW moving again 
Edinburgh 30/07/2013 15:44:53


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## 4F (30 Jul 2013)

Anco de jong is going backwards now, I reckon he is going to do another loop 

Market Rasen 30/07/2013 09:41:26
Kirkton 30/07/2013 12:52:28
Market Rasen 30/07/2013 15:56:53


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## MichaelO (30 Jul 2013)

Killing time to ensure he's within the maximum speed?!


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## Ian H (30 Jul 2013)

Well done to all those still on the road. Commiserations to those who've had to stop.
I'll wander back to the finish tomorrow in time to help with the rush.


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## PoweredByVeg (30 Jul 2013)

Anco de Jong at St. Ives, 120km to go!!


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## mistral (30 Jul 2013)

PoweredByVeg said:


> Anco de Jong at St. Ives, 120km to go!!


He may just catch tomorrows 9am Harwich-Hoek crossing at this rate


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## 4F (30 Jul 2013)

Nooo SteveVW has dropped out 

Moffat30/07/2013 09:20:40
Edinburgh30/07/2013 15:44:53
DROPPED OUT30/07/2013 16:49:32


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## Aperitif (30 Jul 2013)

4F said:


> Nooo SteveVW has dropped out
> 
> Moffat30/07/2013 09:20:40
> Edinburgh30/07/2013 15:44:53
> DROPPED OUT30/07/2013 16:49:32


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

4F said:


> Nooo SteveVW has dropped out
> 
> Moffat30/07/2013 09:20:40
> Edinburgh30/07/2013 15:44:53
> DROPPED OUT30/07/2013 16:49:32


 

Oh no! 
Team Cyclechat is taking some heavy casualties


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## ianrauk (30 Jul 2013)

LongMartin has just checked in to Barnard Castle.
Only 300 miles to go...


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

A tap in! Surely he can't be stopping now he's on the home straight...


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## StuartG (30 Jul 2013)

Whereas Anco is now only about 30 miles out.
Might get home without lights tonight!


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## martint235 (30 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> A tap in! Surely he can't be stopping now he's on the home straight...


He is. Tough day. Need some sleep. Tomorrow St Ives hopefully, home on Thursday


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## Brandane (30 Jul 2013)

Went spectating this afternoon, just north of Eskdalemuir. Amazing to see the range of bikes and riders involved. There was even a guy on a tricycle, and I saw a couple of tandems. Most of the riders looked as if they had been out for a quick ride around the block, such is the level of fitness. Made me realise just how much I only play at being a cyclist. These guys and girls are the real deal; just a different level altogether. Well done to each and every one of them .


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## ianrauk (30 Jul 2013)

Tim D has just signed in at Eskdalemuir.


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## mistral (30 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> He is. Tough day. Need some sleep. Tomorrow St Ives hopefully, home on Thursday


Well done the big man. We can all see how tough this is, as some of the strong CCers have had to call it a day. No shame there though - you have to admire one and all.

Take care and bon route


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## jowwy (30 Jul 2013)

is there something wrong with anco de jongs chip - it has him back in barnard castle after reaching great easton at 20.27


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## srw (30 Jul 2013)

Congratulations particularly to Messrs McShroom and mmmmartin for making it as far as they did - and on taking what sound like sensible decisions to bow to the inevitable. Just six weeks or so ago mmmmartin was explaining how his pre-ride tapering included a 4-day mountain leadership training expedition.

And go Long Martin!


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> He is. Tough day. Need some sleep. Tomorrow St Ives hopefully, home on Thursday


 
Well done, Big M. Sleep as long as you can and you'll feel better in the morning. After the first 10 minutes, at any rate! 
Well done Tim, too!


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## frank9755 (30 Jul 2013)

Tuesday evening roundup:
LongMart probably now fast asleep at Barnard Castle
Redflight going ok. Was at Brampton heading South at 5:45. Presumably crossing back over the Pennines now. Might make BC around midnight
Something funny has gone wrong with Pete's timings. He's just got somewhere but the system says it's Traquair - but he was at Eskdalemuir a few hours ago, so he might actually be at Brampton. (EDIT: he is now: got there at 10:45pm - well done, Pete!)
Tim made Eskdalemuir by 9pm. May stay there or push on to get to Brampton for around 2am.


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## StuartG (30 Jul 2013)

Anco is now home. just over 2.5 days to Edinburgh and back @22.55. Hardly credible.
No chapeau is big enough.


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## mmmmartin (30 Jul 2013)

On train home. A fantastic experience. Really good. Riders tend to pack at Moffat and Edinburgh as there are no beds at traquair or eskdalemuir and when up against it on time you can eat, but not sleep as the buildings have to close, and it is 170k to a bed after Edinburgh. Also that is remote countryside and no place to be exhausted and alone in bad weather with a mechanical. I wanted to get to Scotland and see Lockerbie and get to my bag drop in moffat. Did all that. Wanted to get to Edinburgh and reach 1000k but didn't do that. Had a fantastic time. Great event.good food. Good sleeping arrangements. Had three hours sleep in market rasen and five hours in Brampton after hallucinating towards the end of 23 hours on the bike and going over Yad Moss alone in the dark. When I got to the end of that day I was holding on to the walls in the control to stay upright. I was on a mattress within five minutes of arrival. All in all a fantastic experience. Wouldn't have missed it for the world. Rained on briefly a few times and weather generally sunny and sometimes too hot. Just great. Now [beer then] sleep. Ps am astonished by this thread I didn't know you were so interested.


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## StuAff (30 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> On train home. A fantastic experience. Really good. Riders tend to pack at Moffat and Edinburgh as there are no bass at traquair or eskdalemuir and when up against it on time you can eat but not sleep for hours and it is 170k to a bed after Edinburgh. Also that is remote countryside and no place to be exhausted and alone in bad weather with a mechanical. I wanted to get to Scotland and see Lockerbie and get to my bag drop in moffat. Did all that. Wanted to get to Edinburgh and reach 1000k but didn't do that. Had a fantastic time. Great event.good food. Good sleeping arrangements. Had the hours sleep in market rasen and five hours in Brampton after hallucinating towards the end of 23 hours on the bike and going over Yad Moss alone in the dark. Fantastic experience. Just great. Now sleep.


Chapeau. Team CC/YACF is looking somewhat depleted now, but you've all done well!


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

Have read more of the thread. Am even more amazed at your interest.
Frank's updates on our sleeping and thinking was bang on the nail. Mcshroom lives in the Lakes so packing up there was always better than struggling and packing in Pocklington or Market Rasen which would have left a long and expensive trip home. Also he has mates helping at controls up there. He'll do it next time. We were together for many hours on the early stages and drafted each other, but he was often faster than me. 
With hindsight I would not have spent a night in the Enfield Travelodge which was so hot I was dripping sweat all night and slept for three hours max. So many of us started already tired. And I would have made an effort to get over Yad Moss in the day and do the Lockerbie road in the dark, it's flat and straight and impossible to go wrong on the nav. And I would have thought much more about the implications of arriving, as I did, at Moffat as it closed, leaving me with maybe a five or six hour ride over big hills to Edinburgh to certainly arrive as it closed, so no sleep there, and be faced with 170k to the next beds. Making a day of more than 300k. 
But all I did was pay my money, ride the bike a bit - sometimes with mates in the land of Johnny Foreigner - and rock up on the morning armed only with a steely determination to enjoy the ride. Which I did. i absolutely loved it. At the start Charlotte (OTP) took my photograph. I asked if I looked fit and determined. She said: "You look terrified."
But the truth is that much of the time I was a quivering wreck struggling with exhaustion. The Howardian Hills are sometimes 18% gradients and we all walked them, even the tough Finnish machine. On Yad Moss at midnight my chain came off the front cogs and - oh joy - also jammed in the back cassette. I was all wobbly and dizzy and needed to lean against the bike to stop myself falling over while I used a handful of grass to stop getting grease all over my fingers and extricate the thing. No tears were shed in the freeing of that chain but very, very nearly. And in some godforsaken tiny village at 1am somewhere I had to stop and sit on a wall and drink some water to have a rest as I simply couldn't go on. It was a real struggle and I was dwarfed by the challenge. I'm sure others will be along later with great tales of derring do, but for me it was a humbling experience, because sometimes on hard audaxes in the long night hours you get to look into your soul and you don't always like what you see.


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## tubbycyclist (31 Jul 2013)

Yesterday was the toughest yet. 370km from Moffat to Edinburgh and Barnard Castle. 2 blocks of wood for legs. Time to get cracking


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## Aperitif (31 Jul 2013)

StuartG said:


> Anco is now home. just over 2.5 days to Edinburgh and back @22.55. Hardly credible.
> No chapeau is big enough.


 
Was he 'first'? Reminds me of this: "de Jong wons"


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2013)

tubbycyclist said:


> Yesterday was the toughest yet. 370km from Moffat to Edinburgh and Barnard Castle. 2 blocks of wood for legs. Time to get cracking


Well done Tubby....I'm very impressed with what you've achieved in this last 18 months...an inspiration.


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Have read more of the thread. Am even more amazed at your interest.
> Frank's updates on our sleeping and thinking was bang on the nail. Mcshroom lives in the Lakes so packing up there was always better than struggling and packing in Pocklington or Market Rasen which would have left a long and expensive trip home. Also he has mates helping at controls up there. He'll do it next time. We were together for many hours on the early stages and drafted each other, but he was often faster than me.
> With hindsight I would not have spent a night in the Enfield Travelodge which was so hot I was dripping sweat all night and slept for three hours max. So many of us started already tired. And I would have made an effort to get over Yad Moss in the day and do the Lockerbie road in the dark, it's flat and straight and impossible to go wrong on the nav. And I would have thought much more about the implications of arriving, as I did, at Moffat as it closed, leaving me with maybe a five or six hour ride over big hills to Edinburgh to certainly arrive as it closed, so no sleep there, and be faced with 170k to the next beds. Making a day of more than 300k.
> But all I did was pay my money, ride the bike a bit - sometimes with mates in the land of Johnny Foreigner - and rock up on the morning armed only with a steely determination to enjoy the ride. Which I did. i absolutely loved it. At the start Charlotte (OTP) took my photograph. I asked if I looked fit and determined. She said: "You look terrified."
> But the truth is that much of the time I was a quivering wreck struggling with exhaustion. The Howardian Hills are sometimes 18% gradients and we all walked them, even the tough Finnish machine. On Yad Moss at midnight my chain came off the front cogs and - oh joy - also jammed in the back cassette. I was all wobbly and dizzy and needed to lean against the bike to stop myself falling over while I used a handful of grass to stop getting grease all over my fingers and extricate the thing. No tears were shed in the freeing of that chain but very, very nearly. And in some godforsaken tiny village at 1am somewhere I had to stop and sit on a wall and drink some water to have a rest as I simply couldn't go on. It was a real struggle and I was dwarfed by the challenge. I'm sure others will be along later with great tales of derring do, but for me it was a humbling experience, because sometimes on hard audaxes in the long night hours you get to look into your soul and you don't always like what you see.


 

Great post, mmmm! You've really summed it up in those words, especially the last bit. I think you don't always see what you expect or might want to, but the great virtue is that it is the most honest picture we can get and you know that there is nothing else hidden! Having read that, no-one is going to have any doubt that you gave it your best shot, or wonder why you had to give up. Well done! I look forward to hearing more about it in person.

I've obviously been part-regretting not riding as I've followed your and others' progress. My 'excuse' was that if I did it, I wanted to do it quickly, but it was too close to the 24 for me to have recovered to be able to do that. So I decided to pull out. Then a friend decided to get married on the day of the 24 so I missed that too! (now my main challenge for this year is a 12-hour the weekend after next).

I'm sure LEL is a far harder ride than PBP with more hills, narrower and darker lanes and (slightly) more weather risk. Hence Anco de Jong's feat is really remarkable (as those of others are in their own ways). Definitely agree with Yad Moss in the daytime with company, then the old A74 (Lockerbie) by night. I had thought that there was a bit of a lack of official sleep opportunities in those Scottish border controls.

Enjoy the rest!


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## mcshroom (31 Jul 2013)

Just surfaced after a short kip and before that a long stint on the Barney reception desk. I think seeing the level of effort and suffering some of these riders are carrying on through is awe inspiring. I'm hoping CrinklyUncle (S47) and Ray Joiner (fungus) have made it in while I've been snoozing. Also redflight, Deckertim and lastant.

One of the eliptigos was parked outside when I set off for the csr. Madness!


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## mcshroom (31 Jul 2013)

Oh and Martin235 left Barnie a while ago


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> Tuesday evening roundup:
> LongMart probably now fast asleep at Barnard Castle
> Redflight going ok. Was at Brampton heading South at 5:45. Presumably crossing back over the Pennines now. Might make BC around midnight
> Something funny has gone wrong with Pete's timings. He's just got somewhere but the system says it's Traquair - but he was at Eskdalemuir a few hours ago, so he might actually be at Brampton. (EDIT: he is now: got there at 10:45pm - well done, Pete!)
> Tim made Eskdalemuir by 9pm. May stay there or push on to get to Brampton for around 2am.


 

Wednesday morning:
Not much change since last night. Looks like most people bedded down for the night.

Tim did well last night and made it to Brampton just after 1am, a bit quicker than I guessed. Expect he stayed there. Probably along with Pete.
I got that wrong about Red, above. It now says he got to Brampton at 9:45 last night. Looks like he spent the night there. Probably heading back over now.
No further news on Long Mart [Edit - there is now, see above post from Mcshroom]. Had a good, long (no pun intended!) sleep at BC, I expect!


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## yello (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> sometimes on hard audaxes in the long night hours you get to look into your soul and you don't always like what you see.


 
Firstly, and most importantly, bloody well done. You're a hero sir.

LEL, PBP - such things are exceptional, and take courage and determination. Some have it naturally, others have to dig deeper to find their reserves of it but it's an intensely personal experience for all. I remember finishing in 2009 in tears. No idea why. No one thing in particular; tears of relief, of happiness, and most of all tiredness - physical and emotional. What you saw then will never change, and you'll never forget that moment, but perspective will be added.

You're still tired. It'll take days before you come right, before the everyday balance reasserts itself. You've done exceptionally well, exceptionally. I applaud you.

But, it begs the question, is it too early to ask 'ever again?'


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## yello (31 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> I've obviously been part-regretting not riding as I've followed your and others' progress.


 
Me too.


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> Me too.


 


Add me to the list.


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

LongMartin is in Thirsk, heading for Kirton as a minimum, but will try for St Ives.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

Am awake after a night in own bed. Feel terrible. V tired. The endorphins and adrenalin have worn off, obvs. With hindsight and on reflection, feel even more chuffed that I got as far as I did. Doing more than 600k is a small victory for me. 
My original "plan", if you can call it that, was to maybe get to Pocklington or Market Rasen and sleep long, then ride a 200k DIY audax verified by my GPS track back to the start, which would be my audax for August and my 12th monthly ride so I could wear a little badge. (And yes, it is pointless. But we all have our little goals.) i never thought I'd get so far that I would be so tired I couldn't do the 200k. I think I did OK for an old fat bloke who is nearly 60. 
And thanks for messages of support, both on here and privately in messages and texts. I never knew you cared.


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Am awake after a night in own bed. Feel terrible. V tired. The endorphins and adrenalin have worn off, obvs. With hindsight and on reflection, feel even more chuffed that I got as far as I did. Doing more than 600k is a small victory for me.
> My original "plan", if you can call it that, was to maybe get to Pocklington or Market Rasen and sleep long, then ride a 200k DIY audax verified by my GPS track back to the start, which would be my audax for August and my 12th monthly ride so I could wear a little badge. (And yes, it is pointless. But we all have our little goals.) i never thought I'd get so far that I would be so tired I couldn't do the 200k. I think I did OK for an old fat bloke who is nearly 60.
> And thanks for messages of support, both on here and privately in messages and texts. I never knew you cared.


 

Many congratulations on doing a 600 in the time limit - that's a big victory!
I would have been most concerned if you were able to do a 200 DIY today! It can be even harder to stop and start again than to keep going.
You might find you are a little peckish over the next few days...


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

In other news, PpPete is riding with Mrs PpPete, who is a renowned long-distance walker in her own right, very determined gal. The rider tracking says they arrived at Brampton last night, so still together. Her first audax was a couple of years ago, a 100k near Midhurst. It's not about the bike.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

frank9755 said:


> You might find you are a little peckish over the next few days...


As always you are right. About to start second breakfast. It is easier than the other option, which is to go back to bed. Trouble is, bed is upstairs and I couldn't manage the stairs just yet. Had to come down backwards. Legs seem a bit leaden.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2574600, member: 30090"]I'd want to do it purely for the fact that it can lead to hallucinations. Whether this be your inner demons or a vision of Mickey Mouse having a fight with Goofy on who gets to take Minnie out.[/quote]
My hallucinations tend to be quite short in time and caused by tricks of the light. On a 600 in Norfolk I saw two drunks fighting on the pavement and when they saw me they started to run towards me. It was a tree. On the 100 mile walk I saw a Russian tank with the commander's head sticking out of the turret. Turned out to be the light coming through the tree branches. And coming in to Brampton I saw a young lady dressed as a milkmaid standing by the road. Turned out to be the light of the moon on a car in the distance. I am used to them now,and try to ignore them.


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> My hallucinations tend to be quite short in time and caused by tricks of the light. On a 600 in Norfolk I saw two drunks fighting on the pavement and when they saw me they started to run towards me. It was a tree. On the 100 mile walk I saw a Russian tank with the commander's head sticking out of the turret. Turned out to be the light coming through the tree branches. And coming in to Brampton I saw a young lady dressed as a milkmaid standing by the road. Turned out to be the light of the moon on a car in the distance. I am used to them now,and try to ignore them.


 

Those sound familiar. I mostly see other riders ahead of me, or people standing by the roadsigns, but who turn out to be roadsigns, traffic cones or similar when I get nearer. It's things that are in your head, that you are expecting to see and your tired brain just jumps to the conclusion a bit early. But I'm not sure why you were expecting a Russian tank! 

Worst ones ever were when driving back from Bryan Chapman (big mistake, never to be repeated) when I thought the white lines at the side of my lane on the M4 were concrete walls.


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## AnythingButVanilla (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> But all I did was pay my money, ride the bike a bit - sometimes with mates in the land of Johnny Foreigner - and rock up on the morning armed only with a steely determination to enjoy the ride. Which I did. i absolutely loved it.


 
This sums it up for me. Isn't that what riding a bike is about, the sheer joy that it brings?


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## ColinJ (31 Jul 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> tubbycyclist said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday was the toughest yet. 370km from Moffat to Edinburgh and Barnard Castle. 2 blocks of wood for legs. Time to get cracking
> ...


Indeed!

I first met tc about 3 years ago when he came out on some of my forum rides, and I could see why he had chosen his forum name! He was like me, a former slim and fit cyclist who had let himself go over the years; he had put on a lot of weight, and got pretty out of condition. In fact, on a couple of rides he was even slower than me, which was a rare experience in those days.

He decided to take drastic action, cutting out booze and taking his cycling a lot more seriously. I bumped into him in Hebden Bridge town centre a year ago and barely recognised him, his physique had changed that much. He should change his name to 'nolongertubbycyclist'!

Well done tc, and all of you attempting this madness! LEL is way beyond what I would ever contemplate tackling ...


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Indeed!
> 
> I first met tc about 3 years ago when he came out on some of my forum rides, and I could see why he had chosen his forum name! He was like me, a former slim and fit cyclist who had let himself go over the years; he had put on a lot of weight, and got pretty out of condition. In fact, on a couple of rides he was even slower than me, which was a rare experience in those days.
> 
> He decided to take drastic action, cutting out booze and taking his cycling a lot more seriously. I bumped into him in Hebden Bridge town centre a year ago and barely recognised him, his physique had changed that much. He should change his name to 'nolongertubbycyclist'!


 

I've not met TC but it is such a common, and positive story. So many people I know through cycling (including myself) have lost 2 stones or more in weight and feel fitter than they have done in decades.


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## zigzag (31 Jul 2013)

it was fascinating (still is) to follow the progress of the cyclists i shared a lot of miles with! very well done all!! @Frank, audax journalist - excellent digests.

Martin, Tim, Pete, John, Tynan - keep it going - nearly there!

all your efforts are a huge inspiration for my next challenge


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

That should be 'fun', Rimas!
How far is your route and how long do you expect to take?
Do you have any sleep stops planned or will you look out for bus shelters?
Look forward to following your progress!


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## LouiseL (31 Jul 2013)

Chapeau to all the CCers riding LEL. I didn't even make it to the start.

Especially GRAND chapeau to mmmmartin and McShroom who showed _immense_ physical and mental toughness to get as far as they did. Heroes both. I know it is far, far harder when you are a "full value" rider- less sleep, far more on the bike time, and probably twice as much time actually spent going up hills compared with the faster cyclists. Added to this is the mental stress of having to continually ride near the time limit, often completely alone so no one to take turns on the front with or chat to so as to pass the time, provide distraction from hurting bits and provide mutual encouragement or indeed to send out help from the next control should a disaster happen and there is no phone signal and you are in the middle of nowhere with no sign of habitation for miles. Over such a large distance the cumulative effect should not be underestimated. Some of the faster riders would not fare nearly so well if they had to replicate this I am sure. Massive respect for what you have achieved. Chapeau


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## mcshroom (31 Jul 2013)

Deckertim is at Barnie


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## jowwy (31 Jul 2013)

Looking forward to some LEL write up's after all this - looking at doing it myself next time round and want to hear people's stories, tips etc etc


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## AnythingButVanilla (31 Jul 2013)

@jefmcg arrived at Barnard Castle twenty minutes ago.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

jowwy said:


> people's stories, tips etc etc


Just do loads of audaxes, lots of riding in the dark, lots of bike maintenance, lots of riding in groups and lots of riding alone. Forget fitness, everyone is fit on these things, that is easy. What is hard is being hard. On yourself, I mean. You need to understand that the body is a semi-disposable object, there simply to carry you around. You need to understand how much punishment it can take and how to treat it - like a car you need to fill it with fuel and give it a service now and again. You need at a minimum to be able to ride alone all night in bad weather and to fix a puncture in those conditions, mend a chain, fettle a derailleur. Doing lots of audaxes will show you how very experienced riders do it. Copy them. Reading about other's rides will give you some shortcuts but little else. Bikes are for riding, not reading about. And lookat Drew Buck, nicer bloke never wore socks, see what he's riding. It's not about the bike.


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

Tea time update:

John (Red) was at Thirsk at 1:30pm. Probably due in Pocklington soon. 
Long Mart was there at 9am, then Pocklington just before 1. He is expecting to stop at Kirton as he has time in hand, and heat in feet.
Pete is still going very well to make it to Barnard Castle at 10:45 this morning. But no reports since. He should be showing at Thirsk any minute now, assuming all is still on track.
Tim has slowed down a touch after his strong ride to Brampton last night, but he was at Barnard Castle at 12:30. He may have slept later today after his late finish yesterday hence may be planning to push on further this evening - we will see: I'm just guessing, but he might get to Thirsk around 5:30, then Pocklington at 9-ish...


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## MichaelO (31 Jul 2013)

jowwy said:


> Looking forward to some LEL write up's after all this - looking at doing it myself next time round and want to hear people's stories, tips etc etc


You can't beat this from 2009

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/seeya-arallsopp-does-the-lel.35203/

Edit: Might have to read it again


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## oldgreyandslow (31 Jul 2013)

So impressed  absolutely heroes just to even consider it.

I don't do this chapeau cack, but hats off it is!


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## rb58 (31 Jul 2013)

zigzag said:


> it was fascinating (still is) to follow the progress of the cyclists i shared a lot of miles with! very well done all!! @Frank, audax journalist - excellent digests.
> 
> Martin, Tim, Pete, John, Tynan - keep it going - nearly there!
> 
> all your efforts are a huge inspiration for my next challenge


Rimas! You. Are. A. Nutter.


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

rb58 said:


> Rimas! You. Are. A. Nutter.


 


Tell us something we don't know...


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

In other news, I'm delighted to announce that I have been granted the honour of cleaning the loos at Loughton tomorrow. Sue says there are other jobs I can do if I behave. Pleased to be helping out. 
Am also fretting about Tim, who is ever so slightly not on the time I expected at Thirsk. Although, with this caveat: in life there are many things you should worry about but Tim is not one of them.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

Tim is at Thirsk.


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## StuartG (31 Jul 2013)

@mmmmartin & @frank9755 - I know the start times were staggered but basically does it come down to getting to Pocklington tonight for a rest to have a good chance of completing on time?


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## frank9755 (31 Jul 2013)

StuartG said:


> @mmmmartin & @frank9755 - I know the start times were staggered but basically does it come down to getting to Pocklington tonight for a rest to have a good chance of completing on time?


 

Not really studied the cut-off times, but there is always the option of just closing it out tonight / tomorrow morning. 

It's not a bad strategy if you have the legs, particularly as the temperatures tonight are forecast to be far more comfortable than tomorrow afternoon and the headwind a lot lighter. It's often easier to keep going than it is to stop and start again, and these guys are not exactly novices at riding through the night!


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## Mice (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Have read more of the thread. Am even more amazed at your interest.
> Frank's updates on our sleeping and thinking was bang on the nail. Mcshroom lives in the Lakes so packing up there was always better than struggling and packing in Pocklington or Market Rasen which would have left a long and expensive trip home. Also he has mates helping at controls up there. He'll do it next time. We were together for many hours on the early stages and drafted each other, but he was often faster than me.
> With hindsight I would not have spent a night in the Enfield Travelodge which was so hot I was dripping sweat all night and slept for three hours max. So many of us started already tired. And I would have made an effort to get over Yad Moss in the day and do the Lockerbie road in the dark, it's flat and straight and impossible to go wrong on the nav. And I would have thought much more about the implications of arriving, as I did, at Moffat as it closed, leaving me with maybe a five or six hour ride over big hills to Edinburgh to certainly arrive as it closed, so no sleep there, and be faced with 170k to the next beds. Making a day of more than 300k.
> But all I did was pay my money, ride the bike a bit - sometimes with mates in the land of Johnny Foreigner - and rock up on the morning armed only with a steely determination to enjoy the ride. Which I did. i absolutely loved it. At the start Charlotte (OTP) took my photograph. I asked if I looked fit and determined. She said: "You look terrified."
> But the truth is that much of the time I was a quivering wreck struggling with exhaustion. The Howardian Hills are sometimes 18% gradients and we all walked them, even the tough Finnish machine. On Yad Moss at midnight my chain came off the front cogs and - oh joy - also jammed in the back cassette. I was all wobbly and dizzy and needed to lean against the bike to stop myself falling over while I used a handful of grass to stop getting grease all over my fingers and extricate the thing. No tears were shed in the freeing of that chain but very, very nearly. And in some godforsaken tiny village at 1am somewhere I had to stop and sit on a wall and drink some water to have a rest as I simply couldn't go on. It was a real struggle and I was dwarfed by the challenge. I'm sure others will be along later with great tales of derring do, but for me it was a humbling experience, because sometimes on hard audaxes in the long night hours you get to look into your soul and you don't always like what you see.



Bl@@@@@ fantastic Mmmmartin. What a truly tremendous achievement and an incredible cycling adventure all at the same time. Three hours kip the night before cycling LEL would have had many bailing at the start. You really went for it - I hope you are chuffed to bits with how you did. Absolutely awesome. The concept of cycling towards a bed that wasn't there has given me palpitations just thinking about it - never mind the distances, conditions and time constraints. That arallsopp and his Barring Mechanical (www.amazon.com) book gave me a hint of how tough it would be. Too grim by half, for me. Complete and utter respect for you and everyone else who made it to the start line. 

Frank975s updates have kept me woohooing at my keyboard. Woohoo to youuuu! 

Mice


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## Trickedem (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Tim is at Thirsk.


Just leaving now. Aiming to get 2.5 hours sleep at Pock. Raining here again


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## Mark Grant (31 Jul 2013)

Up the REME!


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## tubbycyclist (31 Jul 2013)

Heavy rain in Lincolnshire this afternoon but clearing later. Done some sums on the bike and worked out that I would probably finish pbp in time
Just idle planning to take my mind off the sore bits.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

StuartG said:


> @mmmmartin & @frank9755 - I know the start times were staggered but basically does it come down to getting to Pocklington tonight for a rest to have a good chance of completing on time?


 
Yes, sort of. Here is the maths, taking Tim as an example. (Those of faint disposition, look away now.)
Tim started at 9.15am so must finish by 05.55am on Friday morning.
He is at Thirsk now (6pm on Wednesday), exactly 1,000k. He says he'll press on to Pock (65k), I guess he might arrive about 10pm maybe. At this stage he will have just under three hours in hand. (Hence his decision to have 2.5 hours of sleep.) Pock is 1,065k and then he will have 354k to go. Leaving Pock at say 00.30 on Thursday morning means he has to stay above a total overall moving average of 12.2kph - including traffic lights, eating, etc. 
So that is the bare maths.

Tim will know all this and I bet he's gone over and over all the permutations of timing, eating, sleeping, speed, time on the bike, in his head a thousand times. After Pock he'll be in the dark for a few hours on Thursday morning, then daylight (weather forecast is warm and hot which is no blessing) and then in the dark from 10pm onwards on Thursday night. There are four controls for him and all they will be concentrating on is shovelling food into exhausted, red-eyed, locust-like cyclists and getting them back on the road.
In his favour:

after Market Rasen it is pan-flat Lincolnshire lanes
the forecast is dry not torrential rain although a headwind is forecast
he's Tim and he'll make it


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> he's Tim and he'll make it


 
This...............


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## Pale Rider (31 Jul 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Not only that he looks fresh as a daisy as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Volunteering at Barnard Castle, I saw Anco on the way up and down.

We all agreed he really looked like he was feeling it on the way down.

I believe he took three hours sleep.


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## Noodley (31 Jul 2013)

I spied numerous LELers around Gorebridge - first one was mid-afternoon on Monday, then early morning on Tuesday and finally around lunchtime on Tuesday. I did not see that dishevelled wreck that belongs to @Baggy and I'd been practising my manly snog...


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## jowwy (31 Jul 2013)

gutted - my mate dropped out at a 1000km in thirsk


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## Greenbank (31 Jul 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Yes, sort of. Here is the maths, taking Tim as an example. (Those of faint disposition, look away now.)
> Tim started at 9.15am so must finish by 05.55am on Friday morning.
> He is at Thirsk now (6pm on Wednesday), exactly 1,000k. He says he'll press on to Pock (65k), I guess he might arrive about 10pm maybe. At this stage he will have just under three hours in hand. (Hence his decision to have 2.5 hours of sleep.) Pock is 1,065k and then he will have 354k to go. Leaving Pock at say 00.30 on Thursday morning means he has to stay above a total overall moving average of 12.2kph - including traffic lights, eating, etc.
> So that is the bare maths.
> ...


 
My tracking site consolidates a load of riders into one place and does a lot of the maths for you. Tim is already on there (trickedem):-

http://www.greenbank.org/cgi-bin/lel2013.cgi

Tim: http://www.greenbank.org/cgi-bin/lel2013.cgi?action=riderreport&rn=R32&

Feel free to PM or email (alex@greenbank.org) me with any other names/rider numbers you want added.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

Tim says he is going for three hours sleep and then on. I guess he will go right to Loughton then.


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## mmmmartin (31 Jul 2013)

Thanks mr greenbank sir. V good site. Impressed.


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## StuartG (31 Jul 2013)

Tim got to Pock at 9pm earlier than expected so he looks to be still strong and is on to get under time. Pray he doesn't get any technicals ...


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## ianrauk (31 Jul 2013)

LongMartin checked in to Kirton half hour ago. 123 miles to go.


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## MichaelO (31 Jul 2013)

This is nerve wracking!! Good luck all - almost there.


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## AnythingButVanilla (31 Jul 2013)

ianrauk said:


> LongMartin checked in to Kirton half hour ago. 123 miles to go.


 
He'll be back in London in time to get the first round in on Friday then


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## Mad Doug Biker (1 Aug 2013)

My commiserations to those who had to drop it, but to get to any real distance is a major undertaking in itself and shouldn't be sniffed at!

For those who have finished or have still to finish, Congratulations and keep up the great job, you are all stars!!


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## Greenbank (1 Aug 2013)

Tim now at Market Rasen with 15m to spare. Well judged sleep stop at Kirton! Hope that's given him the energy he needs to finish without troubles.


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## frank9755 (1 Aug 2013)

Thursday breakfast update. Didn't look at it last night as I had to go out cycling!

Tim made Pocklington at 9. Looks like he stayed there rather than pushing further south as I had expected. It says somewhere that he was planning on three hours' sleep. He may be a bit close to the wire: the last stage is flatter but the temperatures, and the headwind strength, are forecast to rise through the day so may be hard going. Good luck, Tim! [Edit - Tim has just made Market Rasen - that's encouraging, apparently he has 30 mins in hand]
Pete was just quarter an hour ahead of him at Pocklington but (sensibly in my opinion) rode through the night, when the conditions were better, and made Market Rasen at 4:40am. They (riding with Mrs Pete) may have stopped for a couple of hours' rest there but should be fine, as long as they don't oversleep.
John also got to Market Rasen, slightly ahead at 4:20 am. He's got slightly less time as he had an early start, but on the home straight now too!
Long M made Kirton at 22:11. Expect he stopped there and is heading south again now. He's got plenty of time and will finish today, barring hot feet! Maybe there is a book to be written about them...


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## yello (1 Aug 2013)

frank9755 said:


> T[Edit - Tim has just made Market Rasen - that's encouraging, apparently he has 30 mins in hand]


 
Ah, the veritable definition of 'full value'!

Tim knows what he's doing


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## Aperitif (1 Aug 2013)

frank9755 said:


> Thursday breakfast update. Didn't look at it last night as I had to go out cycling!
> 
> Tim made Pocklington at 9. Looks like he stayed there rather than pushing further south as I had expected. It says somewhere that he was planning on three hours' sleep. He may be a bit close to the wire: the last stage is flatter but the temperatures, and the headwind strength, are forecast to rise through the day so may be hard going. Good luck, Tim! [Edit - Tim has just made Market Rasen - that's encouraging, apparently he has 30 mins in hand]
> Pete was just quarter an hour ahead of him at Pocklington but (sensibly in my opinion) rode through the night, when the conditions were better, and made Market Rasen at 4:40am. They (riding with Mrs Pete) may have stopped for a couple of hours' rest there but should be fine, as long as they don't oversleep.
> ...


'Barring Me Canicules'?


----------



## MisterStan (1 Aug 2013)

Spotted lots of LELers yesterday evening and this morning in St Ives. Said hi to as many as I could - keep up the good work guys and girls!


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## Greenbank (1 Aug 2013)

frank9755 said:


> He's got plenty of time and will finish today, barring hot feet! Maybe there is a book to be written about them...


 



Aperitif said:


> 'Barring Me Canicules'?


 
Barring Me Cankles.


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## PoweredByVeg (1 Aug 2013)

All Iceni Velo riders now out 
Absolutely fantasic efforts all round though with Simon "Pinky" Browne P50 getting to Pocklington at 1063km.


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Anthony Last (W37) is still plugging away at the back, and even got some sleep at Pocklington. He's dumped his luggage there with one of the controllers and left at 8am. 

He lost his Japanese companion (R24) who retired at Thirsk however


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## AnythingButVanilla (1 Aug 2013)

The tracking says that Jefmcg dropped out at 0238 but then checked in at Pocklington at 0612 and I've seen her post on the LEL FB page. I don't want to pester her by text to check if she's ok in case she isn't or is sleeping.


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Mr Larrington (one of the Pocklington controllers) mentioned her leaving the control and continuing at 8am over on yacf


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## AnythingButVanilla (1 Aug 2013)

Wonderful! Thanks.


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## Greenbank (1 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Mr Larrington (one of the Pocklington controllers) mentioned her leaving the control and continuing at 8am over on yacf


 
She arrived at just after 1am (so still within time) and left just after 6am.


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

That's even better news 

I'm starting to miss my access to the check-in system now I've left the control


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## frank9755 (1 Aug 2013)

Greenbank's excellent little system shows that:
Pete made Kirton by 11:30 and has 2.5 hours in hand
Tim is right on the wire: had only 14 mins in hand when he was logged at 7:30. Would be less when he left. Should be due in Kirton within the next hour. If he has is fit and well-fed, he should be fine and will probably have banked a little more time.
Martin hit St Ives at 9:30 and has nearly 10 hours in hand, so no worries there. Barring heatwaves or Cankles.
John isn't on that system but he hit Kirton at 9:41. It looks to me like he might have about an hour in hand. Keep going!


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## rb58 (1 Aug 2013)

Tim is in Kirton, with just over an hour in hand. Sounding positive too.


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## Trickedem (1 Aug 2013)

Thanks , going well now, but I've developed a hip problem which comes and goes. I'm making up time now so feeling optimistic. 
thanks for all the support, it really helps


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## 4F (1 Aug 2013)

This is edge of the seat stuff, here I am rooting for many people I have never met willing them to make it amazed at the distances covered.

Bloody well done to one and all.


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## AnythingButVanilla (1 Aug 2013)

4F said:


> This is edge of the seat stuff, here I am rooting for many people I have never met willing them to make it amazed at the distances covered.


 
Same!


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## Baggy (1 Aug 2013)

Am rooting for everyone still out there! Have been at St Ives since Tues buy tucked away in the kitchen most of the time. The atmosphere in the control is fantastic and have really enjoyed updates here, on yacf an twitter, so much support out there! Chuffy was going better after a difficult patch, probably brought on by his not seeing @Noodley . Chuffy should be here this evening, it could be emotional, especially as I'll have to kick him out fairly quickly as he's not much time in hand.


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## fimm (1 Aug 2013)

4F said:


> This is edge of the seat stuff, here I am rooting for many people I have never met willing them to make it amazed at the distances covered.
> 
> Bloody well done to one and all.


 Me, too.

I thought others might like this story (not mine) from the CityCyclingEdinburgh forum's LEL thread:
_Spotted a large number of LEL riders yesterday afternoon. I was riding the Saltire 200k perm, which has a control in Innerleithen. There is a section of the route which interests with the LEL route. _
_First sighting was rider X17 on Innerleithen High Street, then a 'bent (Darkerside? Looked like him, couldn't see the number) then LOADS of other riders! Quite a few had a double take at me because I was obviously riding an audax (beard, Carradice, steel bike, route sheet holder, Audax Ecosse jersey). _
_As I headed up Glentress en route to the A7 there was a steady stream of LEL riders coming the other way, a very international crowd by the looks of it. I gave each one a cheery greeting as I passed. Again a few were convinced I was also on LEL: one chap even quipped: "Are you going the wrong way?"_


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Some not very good news from the other forum at about 1130 



> I've just received the following email from Ken Roberts of Huddersfield CTC about John Radford, Huddersfield CTC president, former CTC West Yorkshire president and secretary, CTC National Councillor, and of course experienced audax rider and event organiser, whom a lot of you will know:
> 
> "I'm afraid that I have some bad news to pass on about John Radford. You probably know that he returned early from the LEL ride because of a recurrence of his hot foot problem. Anyway,he was struck by a car in New Mill yesterday afternoon and was air-lifted to Leeds hospital where he is in a critical condition with severe head injuries.
> 
> ...


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2576698, member: 30090"]Martin checked in at St Ives this morning at 0936hrs. @ianrauk has he since finished?[/quote]
Not on the system as having finished yet. Has a good 11 hours yet though.

There's a very good page from Greenbank with a lot of riders of interest here
http://www.greenbank.org/cgi-bin/lel2013.cgi


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

Am at Loughton. It's hot out there. About 750 still out there. Calm before the storm.
Tim, there's a lady here waiting to hang a medal round your neck. Be strong.


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Audax Bodging meets Italian road bike design: -







Made it to the finish though


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Am at Loughton. It's hot out there. About 750 still out there. Calm before the storm.
> Tim, there's a lady here waiting to hang a medal round your neck. Be strong.



Come on Tim!


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## Aperitif (1 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Come on Tim!


Yes, come on Tim..we'll give you a push  "All hands on decker!"


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

We have a Great Martin at Long Easton


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## zigzag (1 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> We have a Great Martin at Long Easton


 
i'd really like to see and congratulate him on his way back home - i live less than 5mi from him..

give him my best wishes, and can you take his mobile number?..


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Sorry bad turn of phrase - I'm tracking him online from home so I'm not actually there


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## frank9755 (1 Aug 2013)

zigzag said:


> his mobile number?..


 
Sent you pm


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## ComedyPilot (1 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Audax Bodging meets Italian road bike design: -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I helped him at Thirsk on the SB leg - he told me it broke about 200k into the event, so by the time he got to Thirsk SB he'd done 800k like this!


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## phil_hg_uk (1 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2576820, member: 30090"]Hmm, a botch job with cable ties on an LEL, after a breakage occurred not long into the ride - have we not seen this before?[/quote]


I can see another book coming on


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## Mr Bunbury (1 Aug 2013)

I think arallsopp should sponsor an award: The A. Allsopp Trophy for most creative use of cable ties on LEL.


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

303 in at loughton. The ones arriving now say it is like a furnace out there.
I am handing out medals. It's an honour to shake the trembling sweaty hands of these shambling wrecks.


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## threebikesmcginty (1 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2576820, member: 30090"]Hmm, a botch job with cable ties on an LEL, after a breakage occurred not long into the ride - have we not seen this before?[/quote]


Just needs a binbag gillet to complete the set!


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## Trickedem (1 Aug 2013)

I'm 15 miles outside St Ives. About 2 hours ahead of schedule. It is very tough


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Aug 2013)

Trickedem said:


> I'm 15 miles outside St Ives. About 2 hours ahead of schedule. It is very tough


Keep goin' Tim, we is all rootin' for you.


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

It is starting to cool ever so slightly at loughton. 327 in now. 600 still out


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## rb58 (1 Aug 2013)

Tall Martin is at Loughton!!


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## MichaelO (1 Aug 2013)

Trickedem said:


> I'm 15 miles outside St Ives. About 2 hours ahead of schedule. It is very tough


Never met you, but I'm rooting for you!! Come on Tim!


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## 4F (1 Aug 2013)

MichaelO said:


> Never met you, but I'm rooting for you!! Come on Tim!


 

same here


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## yello (1 Aug 2013)

LEL live!

Check this out http://glympse.com/V9W-BSX

yacf's DrMekon on the web!


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## Scoosh (1 Aug 2013)

That's amazing ! 


... and so-o-o cool.


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

Important development. An ice cream van has arrived at loughton. The queue is long.
Starting to cloud over a bit. That might help a bit. I'm sure Tim can do this. He didn't get to be a sergeant major then officer in a specialist engineering regiment by accident. I just wish it wasn't so painful out there. 
361 in now. A lorra lorra riders suffering still


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## Greenbank (1 Aug 2013)

Mr Bunbury said:


> I think arallsopp should sponsor an award: The A. Allsopp Trophy for most creative use of cable ties on LEL.


 
It's not just LEL. McNasty[1] snapped his downtube on HBKH (Hamburg-Berlin-Koln-Hamburg) and rode the last 500km with it bodged with zipties:-

http://www.owenphilipson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/GeorgeFrameBreak-450x337.jpg

1. a.k.a. George Berwick


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## tubbycyclist (1 Aug 2013)

Done and dusted. Yeah!


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## 4F (1 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Important development. An ice cream van has arrived at loughton. The queue is long.
> Starting to cloud over a bit. That might help a bit. I'm sure Tim can do this. He didn't get to be a sergeant major then officer in a specialist engineering regiment by accident. I just wish it wasn't so painful out there.
> 361 in now. A lorra lorra riders suffering still


 

He's in at St Ives, 1 hour 17 in hand

18.St.Ives_Return Thu Aug 1 18:46:54 2013


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## ianrauk (1 Aug 2013)

LongMartin finished at 17.17.

Good work buddy, proud of you. And I don't say that lightly you being a norverner and all that.


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## Mice (1 Aug 2013)

ianrauk said:


> *LongMartin finished at 17.17.*
> 
> .


 
Whoop! Whoop! Well done That Man!! Fantastic stuff!! 

Have a couple of these  

Mice


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## Trickedem (1 Aug 2013)

Myself and Middle aged are at St Ives


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## ianrauk (1 Aug 2013)

Tim signed in at St Ives half hour ago.
75 miles to go.


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## ianrauk (1 Aug 2013)

Johnny RedFlight signed in at St Ives @ 15.22.
Can't be far from finishing.


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## Mice (1 Aug 2013)

Brilliant! Absolutely Brilliant!

Mice


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## ColinJ (1 Aug 2013)

tubbycyclist said:


> Done and dusted. Yeah!
> View attachment 27082


Hebden Bridge salutes you, sir. 

Well, I can't speak for the rest of the town, but _I_ do!


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## ttcycle (1 Aug 2013)

WHOO!

Amazing! Excellent achievement guys!


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## yello (1 Aug 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Hebden Bridge salutes you, sir.
> 
> Well, I can't speak for the rest of the town, but _I_ do!


 
I do too! Excellent stuff tc, go and have a well earned beer/shower/sleep


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## MichaelO (1 Aug 2013)

Bloomin well done everyone!! 

Just had a call from my Mum, who's with friends in Lincolnshire - they've decided that for my 40th (next year) that they'll pay for my entry into LEL. They'd been cheering on riders all morning heading south!! 

She was gutted that I'd heard of LEL - and even more so when i told her to hold the idea until my 43rd birthday!!!


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

Just remembered my quote of the day from Barnard Castle Control on Tuesday.

One of the riders walked in with a cable and asked us "Can I plug my bike in?" 


For explanation he had Di2 electronic shifters and the batteries were dead, meaning he'd just ridden Yad Moss in the middle front and back.


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## AnythingButVanilla (1 Aug 2013)

Chuffing well done to all the finishers and also to the ones who gave it a bloody good try!!


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## rb58 (1 Aug 2013)

I'm exhausted just checking for the updates. Can only imagine how the real heroes must be feeling. Ace job. Every last one of them.


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## martint235 (1 Aug 2013)

Well done tubby cyclist, fantastic achievement. And come on Tim


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## mcshroom (1 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> Well done tubby cyclist, fantastic achievement. And come on Tim


Well done Martin!


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

425 finished. Getting cooler. Market Rasen bag drop is here. Ice cream man sold out and gone. Returning at 8am. Lots of shambling ghosts shuffling around.


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## BigGee (1 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> Well done tubby cyclist, fantastic achievement. And come on Tim


Very well done Martin. As you said on Saturday before the off, 'by Thursday it will be over'. It sure is now!

Terrific effort, well done again!


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## martint235 (1 Aug 2013)

BigGee said:


> Very well done Martin. As you said on Saturday before the off, 'by Thursday it will be over'. It sure is now!
> 
> Terrific effort, well done again!


And really, really, really thank feck it is


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## Mark Grant (1 Aug 2013)

Well done Martin!


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## ianrauk (1 Aug 2013)

RedFlight John signed in to Great Easton a few minutes ago. 28 miles to the finish.


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## Aperitif (1 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> And really, really, really thank feck it is


 
I sent you a text this morning. If you think I'm going to praise you in public, you have got another drink coming.
Cheers.


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## Aperitif (1 Aug 2013)

ianrauk said:


> RedFlight John signed in to Great Easton a few minutes ago. 28 miles to the finish.


 
That's going to be a tough ride 'home' - come on John.


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## martint235 (1 Aug 2013)

ianrauk said:


> RedFlight John signed in to Great Easton a few minutes ago. 28 miles to the finish.


Come on John mate. I've seen you so often in the last few days. You can do it.


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

Those arriving now utterly shattered. Been a tough day in heat with headwinds. Still warm outside. They're drinking gallons on arrival. We'll be up all night so by 6am it'll be a dialogue of the shattered and we won't understand each other. 
Am hanging around outside looking for Tim.


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## Mice (1 Aug 2013)

So Peeps - where are DeckerTIm and Redflight Now? Must be so close to the finish!


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## TheDoctor (1 Aug 2013)

Jolly well done to all!


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## phil_hg_uk (1 Aug 2013)

tubbycyclist said:


> Done and dusted. Yeah!
> View attachment 27082


 

Well done that is feckin awesome


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## Telemark (1 Aug 2013)

A volunteer report of sorts, from the half-way point at Edinburgh ...

LEL was one of those great experiences restoring one's faith in human nature (if you are a cynical what's-it), both with regard to the riders and my fellow volunteers  .

It all started on Sunday, when we pumped up hundreds of airbeds  n the two large school gym halls and layed them out in rows for those wanting to sleep or at least lie down for a while, put up metal barriers in rows as bike parking for several 100 bikes at a time, put up signs and arrows, etc.

The riders didn't really start arriving in great numbers until late afternoon on Monday, apart from the first couple of dozen or so ...
I ended up spending >24 hours straight at the control, from 6pm on Monday to 8pm on Tuesday, with only an hour half sleeping/half dozing in the school staff room on an airbed, between 6 and 7 AM. We had been assigned shifts, and I was due a 10 hour break between 2 AM and 12 PM on Tuesday, but there were too many people arriving throughout that period, and it was too much fun (seriously ), and so I just stayed on ... 

When I arrived, the bed booking system was just being set up on a big whiteboard, 1 side a big map of the beds layed out in alphabetic rows with numbers counting along the rows (does that make sense?), and the other a time table of 15 minute slots starting in the evening and lasting until Tuesday late morning. Anybody requiring a bed would be asked when he (or she - but in the minority) wanted to be woken up, the time written below their allocated bed number on the map, and then they were shown to their bed with a head torch in the dark rooms. It would have been amazing to do some sound recording in there, it was quite funny to walk through a dark sound landscape, with 3D breathing, snoring in varied volumes, pitches, rhythms etc (and the odd fart thrown in). I suspect there would have been a smell landscape, too, for anybody with a basic sense of smell, which in this case I was quite happy I don't possess, so I wasn't bothered . There was a constant stream of people arriving throughout the night, checking in, eati.ng, drinking, having showers (towels provided :-) - and commented on as luxury and compared with the handkerchief sized ones found at other controls (). Clearly Audax people are a self-sufficient lot! The bed people (three or so of us) were constantly either booking somebody in and showing them to their bed, preparing the 15-minute wake-up cards or count down the rows with the head torches to wake people at the right time. Amazingly it seemed to work flawlessly, with people being woken up at the right time ... there were a couple of occasions where I found a bed was already occupied, once we managed to track down on the plan what had happened, and the other was me mis-counting ... phew! We must have had 300+ people sleeping at Edinburgh for anything from 1 hour to more generous slots of 6-7 hours ...
Most sleepers were very easy to wake, some already lifting their head on our approach, only very few asked us to amend their booking and let them have a bit longer.
By 6 AM I really needed to lie flat for a bit, so that I could keep going throughout the day, and went upstairs, where we had set up a volunteer sanctuary in the staff room, with a few airbeds & blankets. There were a couple of people fast asleep in there, and I managed to drift in and out of sleep for an hour or so, it was bliss just to lie down. I remember a rendition of "Happy Birthday" intruding into my dreams, it turned out that was real, with somebody being serenaded over breakfast (no doubt with cake which was provided round the clock).

The bed business downstairs had tailed off when I got up, quite refreshed (amazingly) around 7 AM, and I started helping with the tea & coffee making & handing out, which was another full-time job for 2 people, but we never ran out of drinks, cups, sugar or milk, even though it was a close call a few times! Other duties included helping riders who had to drop out () to find accommodation or advise on travel options from Edinburgh, and of course chatting with people about their adventure while we gave them drinks, holding bits of bike while they were being re-attached with cable ties, etc. I also managed to help a guy who had broken the frame of his beautiful old-style steel racer just after departing from the control, to source a replacement from a new friend I had met only recently at the Edinburgh Festival of Cycling. He runs a small tourist bike rental business and arrived with a couple of possible hybrids on his van very quickly. But then they decided to see if they could get a welder friend of his to mend the bike - and the rider was back on the road an hour later! Still going at the moment, somewhere south of St Ives (T32). Phew ...

Other duties on Monday evening included offering some soaked people (VERY heavy showers) to dry their clothes and gloves etc. in the school's two tumble dryers, and I think I might have saved a Welshman's ride... (didn't sound particularly Welsh, but he and his pal were wearing Welsh Audax jerseys) he arrived and seemed quite disoriented and was not really making sense - he was completely soaked and might have been borderline hypothermic. I convinced him that he should have a hot shower rather than lying down and trying to sleep straight away, and that he could wear some towels and blankets while we'd dry his clothes (the only ones he had, no spares). Half an hour later he came back wrapped in blankets, looking like a different person and smiling and talking normally again, saying he'd just had the world's longest shower and was OK. You can see him wandering around in one of these photos by a fellow volunteer (http://mccraw.co.uk/london-edinburgh-london-in-pics/ - 3rd one down; He then had lots of food & drink and slept for a good few hours - if anybody knows who he is, I'd love to know if he made it back to London). 

Other memorable people were the wife of a rider who had come all the way to Edinburgh to meet him, and we were all hoping he'd arrive before she had to catch her flight back south ... when he did finally arrive, he decided that Edinburgh was far enough and dropped out. He was later seen sitting on a chair and having his feet and shoulders massaged by his wife, with his eyes closed, I wish I'd taken a picture.

Luckily we didn't have to do any cooking or serving of food, there wouldn't have been enough volunteers for that - the school dinner ladies worked in shifts throughout the whole time, and were very nice to the riders and volunteers, as was George, the janitor, who helped with everything from unblocking showers and toilets to emptying the bins and all the other "local expert" jobs.

For some reason I had expected that the volunteers would all be local, but there was Oliver from Germany, who hadn't managed to get a slot for LEL, as it sold out very quickly, who came all the way from Frankfurt and helped out from Sunday morning until Tuesday lunchtime (including through the night apart from a 3-4 hour sleep), before setting off to cycle to London with his friend who had managed to get a place on the ride. Katerina, a Greek student who had come from Newcastle to help, and to meet several Greek friends from an internet cycling club (a bit like Cyclechat, she had never met them in person) ... she had wanted to ride, but hadn't got a place either. Mark, a GP from Aberdeenshire and a seasoned Audaxer, Lolly from Hongkong, who had come to the UK to do some volunteering, Xavier from Spain who lives in Stirling, and then of course the locals.

I did manage to spot one CCer - Stevevw - the only wearer of a CC jersey! A real shame he had to drop out, but he seemed quite relaxed about it ... or at least there was no externally visible turmoil ... will there be a next time?

I left around 7pm, leading a small Greek peloton to the local Travelodge, before finally going home, in the company of Katerina, who needed a bed for the night. I would have quite liked to help out Wednesday morning with dismantling the control, but sadly I had to go back to work instead, leaving the house at 7AM, on my bike, of course  - thinking of all the LELers still out somewhere on the road south.
Anyway that's enough rambling, it's getting late and I better catch up on a bit more sleep. 

T


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## mmmmartin (1 Aug 2013)

Tim at st ives a while ago. No redlight at the finish yet. Riders coming in as a steady trickle, threes and fours. Looks like they are teaming up for tricky nav in the dark.


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## Baggy (2 Aug 2013)

Chuffy left St. Ives about 4 hours ago so hope he'll be at Gt. Easton soon. He'd made up some time and wasn't looking to bad. He was a bit whiffy though 
Must have seen lots of forumers this evening but didn't know who they were - I was mostly on washing up duty so not able to chat much.


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2013)

Telemark said:


> compared with the handkerchief sized ones found at other controls ().


 
The towels were very small at Barnard Castle.

The organisers ordered - and paid for - larger ones but were let down by the supplier.

A couple of bales from Ikea was all that could be found at the last minute.


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## mmmmartin (2 Aug 2013)

Redlight finished just now. He's knackered.


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## mmmmartin (2 Aug 2013)

Absolutely delighted to see Tim at the finish. But not as delighted as he was to finish. He had ages in hand.


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## Baggy (2 Aug 2013)

Well done to all! Chuffy arrived at 4.30am


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## Mice (2 Aug 2013)

Red flight and Decker Tim finished LEL2013 ages ago - fantastic stuff! Well done - what an achievement. And well done to everyone for taking part - that's one 'eck of a ride.


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## mmmmartin (2 Aug 2013)

Just woken up after a couple of hours sleep in the back of the car. Now we have to dismantle the entire control. It is raining hard. It's been a great experience, both as rider and volunteer. I might write something about seeing it from both sides. When I can rhink straight. Maybe the best bit was at the finish, when I hung the medal round their necks, and watched grown men struggle not to burst into tears.


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## Trickedem (2 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Absolutely delighted to see Tim at the finish. But not as delighted as he was to finish. He had ages in hand.


 
Thanks Martin, lovely to see you when I got in.


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## Trickedem (2 Aug 2013)

To everyone on here, it was fantastic to see all the support, encouragement and downright stalking  No sooner had I arrived then someone did an update on my progress. To know that you have people looking out for you and interested in your progress is motivating beyond belief. I will do a longer write up later, but for now, I just wanted to give my most heartfelt thanks.
Well done to all the Ccers who did the ride, finishers and non-finishers alike and well done to the volunteers, who did an amazing job


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## BigGee (2 Aug 2013)

Trickedem said:


> To everyone on here, it was fantastic to see all the support, encouragement and downright stalking  No sooner had I arrived then someone did an update on my progress. To know that you have people looking out for you and interested in your progress is motivating beyond belief. I will do a longer write up later, but for now, I just wanted to give my most heartfelt thanks.
> Well done to all the Ccers who did the ride, finishers and non-finishers alike and well done to the volunteers, who did an amazing job


 
Well done Tim, what a fantastic achievement. It has been brilliant just following online and has definitely left me wondering if I could do it next time around.

Have a good rest and look forward to hearing all the gruesome detail when you are ready to tell.


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## AnythingButVanilla (2 Aug 2013)

I was knackered riding the massive 1 mile from home to Welling this morning. I win at patheticness.


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## StuAff (2 Aug 2013)

LEL 2013 participants, be they finishers, DNFs, volunteers, and in quite a few cases, combinations of the above....bravo, one and all. Great job!


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## yello (2 Aug 2013)

Baggy said:


> Well done to all! Chuffy arrived at 4.30am


 
Good stuff and top effort! There were times that I wasn't sure but, having been on the road myself, I know these internet timing things don't reflect what's actually going on.

I completed LEL 2009 effectively 1 legged after achilles problems maybe 400km from the finish. From this side of the screen, it would have looked like my speed had dropped dramatically (which it had) and that I wouldn't make it. But on the road, you adjust your cloth (as it were). I knew what I had to do to finish - sleep less - so that's what I did.


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> I was knackered riding the massive 1 mile from home to Welling this morning. I win at patheticness.


You live near Welling?


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## AnythingButVanilla (2 Aug 2013)

I'm just off Plumstead Common but get the train from Welling to work as it's direct and doesn't involve several changes like my old commute.


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> I'm just off Plumstead Common but get the train from Welling to work as it's direct and doesn't involve several changes like my old commute.


Not that far from me then. Was just curious.


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## DCLane (2 Aug 2013)

Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.

Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


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## mcshroom (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.
> 
> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


To quote a famous Austrian, "I'll be back!"

I now have some unfinished business with this ride that I fully intend to rectify in 4 years time


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## yello (2 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> To quote a famous Austrian, "I'll be back!"


 
Hitler said that?!! Shudder....

Too early to say yes or no re 2017 but I must admit to feeling that I missed out on something this year.


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## mmmmartin (2 Aug 2013)

I am ambivalent about 2017, but will, on balance, probably enter. I might have other stuff on, such as a big cycle tour somewhere foreign. Or other activities at that time, such as walking, climbing or running. 

Also, I have already done half of it and had a good flavour of the event. And if I wanted to take part I could volunteer, which is one hell of a blast and well worth the effort. On the other hand, I might find it easy to enter next time because I volunteered this time. (Volunteers get guaranteed entry.) Getting in is not easy BTW. The event has 1,000 places and they went in 10 hours and next time they may go even more quickly, because of the superb organisation of this year.)

Those of you talking about riding #LEL2017 need to start training now, by the way. And it is not just about fitness or a carbon bike, BTW.

I do not feel that I have unfinished business here. I gave it my best shot and wasn't up to the job. I achieved some ambitons - riding to Scotland, seeing Lockerbie, getting to my bag drop in Moffat. But I didn't get to Edinburgh, halfway, and didn't get to 1,000k. Yet this will not rankle with me at all. I had a ball. 

So why ride in 2017 when I shall be nearly 64 and probably feeling it, too?

Because the actual riding of the actual bike in the actual event was fantastic. The roads were well chosen, largely traffic free and through lovely countryside. The controls were great with lovely food and good sleeping arrangements. The volunteers were friendly and helpful. Everything was laid on for you to perform your best in this very personal challenge. And it is a world class event. Other events have their own claim to fame, but LEL has a combination of weather, hills, winds, distance and atmosphere that put it head and shoulders above the rest. You see, it's not about the final kilometre, it's about the 1,418 before that. Which is why I'll probably ride next time. 

Which means my training begins now. *sigh*


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## yello (2 Aug 2013)

I think many think in terms of 'unfinished business'.... whether they finish or otherwise.

You see where you could have been 'better' (whatever your better is; faster, cleverer, more prepared, etc etc etc). There are things you'd do differently in hindsight. I think it's the nature of the beast: it tests you to the limit. But just as you know that 2 rides are never the same, no 2 LELs are the same - but amplified untold. Weather alone plays such a big factor.

So think not of unfinished business but of new challenges. Yesterday's event is a learning experience to do as you choose with. I guess that's behind the 'no winner' ethos of LEL - because everyone is a winner just for setting out. Don't want to poncify it all but it really is all about what you make it to be about.



mmmmartin said:


> Yet this will not rankle with me at all. I had a ball.


 
Spot on


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.
> 
> *Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?*


 
NO.


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## mcshroom (2 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> NO.


So we put you down as a maybe then?


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## phil_hg_uk (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> So we put you down as a maybe then?


 
I might volunteer. 

If anyone is reading this and thinking of doing it, don't let me put you off. It is a fantastic event and a real challenge and if you feel you're up to it, go for it. Be warned it's largely a mental challenge as opposed to a physical one though. For me, it's now a challenge I've done, the time isn't important so there's nothing to better for me.

I'll work on a full write up over the next few days.


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## mmmmartin (2 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> I'll work on a full write up over the next few days.


Having looked at your finishing time, I do seem to recall that about when you finished I did hang a medal round the neck of some unnaturally tall bloke. Had to stand on tiptoe to do it, I think.


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Having looked at your finishing time, I do seem to recall that about when you finished I did hang a medal round the neck of some unnaturally tall bloke. Had to stand on tiptoe to do it, I think.


Alas and alack but unless you had taken to wearing a dress for the day, it wasn't me.


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## middleagecyclist (2 Aug 2013)

1400k 

Longer write up later. Now spending time with family.


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## oldfatfool (2 Aug 2013)

I think I will be back in 2017, but as I enjoyed this year so much it will probably be as a volunteer again.

Not a member on here but the hero of the event, for me, was Idai, completing the event on an Eliptigo. He was allowed to oversleep by 4 hours at one control and arrived in Thirsk needing to make back a good hour. Heard he finally completed the 1400k with 19 minutes in hand.


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## martint235 (2 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2578888, member: 30090"]SR series then PBP 2015. Let the French show you they put the va va voom into a major audax event.[/quote]
The general feeling on LEL was that PBP isn't as well organised but their roads are better. The answer is still no though. 

Anyway why aren't you in the pub yet?


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## Telemark (2 Aug 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> The towels were very small at Barnard Castle.
> 
> The organisers ordered - and paid for - larger ones but were let down by the supplier.
> 
> A couple of bales from Ikea was all that could be found at the last minute.


 
 I know ... ours came from IKEA, too - luckily there is one just a couple of miles up the road from the control.
(By the way, the riders weren't complaining about the small towels, just expressing their surprise and pleasure at the full-size ones they got in Edinburgh)  As I said earlier, I got the distinct feeling that nothing was taken for granted by most of the riders, and there was no sense of entitlement for anything which contributed to the great atmosphere ...
I have volunteered for other stuff previously, and the attitude towards volunteers was sometimes quite off - none of that at LEL

T


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## PMarkey (2 Aug 2013)

Well done to everyone who took part be it riding,volunteering or just spectating 
Due to a broken right hand shifter 2 kms after the start I ended up doing the ride on a two speed , though in all honesty I probably spent the majority of the time in single speed mode as the only options I had were spin like a loony or not but over all an enjoyable few days out on the bike .

Paul


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## ComedyPilot (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.
> 
> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


Me


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## 4F (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.
> 
> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


 

Yes, seriously considering it


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## Speicher (2 Aug 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> Me


 
Let me know what time you start and I will be there to  at you.


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## ComedyPilot (2 Aug 2013)

Money, time and lack of suitable bike put paid to 2013 - all three have been sorted now, and with a guaranteed entry (for being a 2013 volunteer) then 2017 is on the cards.


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## ColinJ (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.


Seconded!


DCLane said:


> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


I am inspired to make sure that I never even contemplate such an undertaking!


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## Speicher (2 Aug 2013)

DCLane said:


> Well done to all who took part - finishers and non, plus those who helped out at the controls.
> 
> Anyone else inspired to do LEL2017 ?


 
Well done everyone. 

Thank you for all the updates on this thread, especially @frank9755.


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## middleagecyclist (2 Aug 2013)

fimm said:


> Again a few were convinced I was also on LEL: one chap even quipped: "Are you going the wrong way?"


That could have been me I think.


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## StuAff (2 Aug 2013)

2017.......

Now, I've said in the past (2011), that the sleep deprivation and the need to balance making the cut with getting enough food & rest bothered me. Earlier this year, I had changed my tune a bit, and posted in this very thread that I was reasonably confident I could do it, just lacked the inclination.

And now.......well, I've looked back over the data from the big rides I've done over the last two or three years. On overall (elapsed time) average I'm quick enough, even with a few lumps in the way (that run to Swansea was 360km in a smidge over 24 hours, door to pier, to give one example). I can handle low sleep.....
Tempted.


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## jowwy (2 Aug 2013)

Im in for 2017.......training will begin very soon


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## frank9755 (3 Aug 2013)

Great to see Long Martin at the Cyclechat drinks last night and get some tales from the horses mouth on how it had gone. I expect he'll have more to write when he has recovered but he looked very well for the experience and it was clear that he'd shown loads of determination to keep going, despite lots of pain in the second half of the ride. 

I got the impression that he has no unfinshed business whatsoever with LEL and will be happy to leave the field open for all those who have decided they'd like to give it a shot next time!


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## martint235 (3 Aug 2013)

frank9755 said:


> Great to see Long Martin at the Cyclechat drinks last night and get some tales from the horses mouth on how it had gone. I expect he'll have more to write when he has recovered but he looked very well for the experience and it was clear that he'd shown loads of determination to keep going, despite lots of pain in the second half of the ride.
> 
> I got the impression that he has no unfinshed business whatsoever with LEL and will be happy to leave the field open for all those who have decided they'd like to give it a shot next time!


 
Absolutely no unfinished business with LEL!! Good luck to all who decide to enter in 2017 and in gratitude for all the help I received from people on Cyclechat to prepare for 2013, I'm happy to help people train if they need a ride partner or just to share the experience gained. Just don't expect me on the start line.


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## mmmmartin (3 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> Just don't expect me on the start line.


 So we can put you down as a maybe?


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## PpPete (3 Aug 2013)

Fantastic to meet so many friends from here and YACF, both on the ride and among the volunteers.
Hoping my knees and um..... undercarriage.... recover soon. Definitely need to put some training in for PBP.


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## redflightuk (3 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Redlight finished just now. He's knackered.


Yep, i was a bit tired by then and had very unhappy feet. Toes kept going numb so had to stop every few miles to wake them up again. It was getting close to time but i realised i could just make before my cut off. It was nice to see you at the end Martin and i took your advice and slept under the stars, woke up around 5 and headed to the campsite and slept until midday. Thanks for all your support and comments all and when my head has finally stopped spinning i'll try and write up some of my thoughts on the ride. Well done all involved.


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## Baggy (3 Aug 2013)

PpPete said:


> Fantastic to meet so many friends from here and YACF, both on the ride and among the volunteers.
> Hoping my knees and um..... undercarriage.... recover soon. Definitely need to put some training in for PBP.


Was really glad to finally say a proper hello to you and Maggie and delighted to see you'd both finished ok. As a volunteer it was also a boost to meet forum people and see some familiar faces at points when I was flagging a bit!


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## middleagecyclist (3 Aug 2013)

Right. LEL done and just need a 300 and a 600 to complete as SR before the end of the season. Better get planning.


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## mmmmartin (3 Aug 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Right. LEL done and just need a 300 and a 600 to complete as SR


Nonsense. LEL counts as a 600 so you need only a 300.


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## mcshroom (3 Aug 2013)

Unless he's after the Brevet 2500 as well (I think that's the one with an SR + a 1000km+ ride)


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## middleagecyclist (3 Aug 2013)

mcshroom said:


> Unless he's after the Brevet 2500 as well (I think that's the one with an SR + a 1000km+ ride)


Yes. Of course!


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## mmmmartin (4 Aug 2013)

Me bad


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## martint235 (4 Aug 2013)

What's a reasonable length of time for me to leave my rider number attached to Lelly?


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## oldfatfool (4 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> What's a reasonable length of time for me to leave my rider number attached to Lelly?


Round about July 2017 as a rough estimate.


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## mmmmartin (4 Aug 2013)

Until everyone you know has seen it, then you decide to have it framed, with the medal and the brevet. Then hang it on the living room wall until you die. Look at it every day. Remember how it felt.


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## martint235 (4 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> Until everyone you know has seen it, then you decide to have it framed, with the medal and the brevet. Then hang it on the living room wall until you die. Look at it every day. Remember how it felt.


I'm doing a pretty good job of blocking how it felt from my mind, particularly Thursday! :-)


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## ComedyPilot (4 Aug 2013)

So, LEL 2013 veterans, which 'leg' of the journey was (in your opinion) hardest, and why?


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## tubbycyclist (4 Aug 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> So, LEL 2013 veterans, which 'leg' of the journey was (in your opinion) hardest, and why?


 
There is a clear winner for the leg that caused me the most difficulty: Saint Ives to Great Easton - the heat on Thursday afternoon was phenomenal, coupled with a strong headwind and the rolling terrain with 1300km in the legs meant I was down to a grovel at times. I suspect a lot of this was psychological, as I had started from Kirton that morning knowing that there was only a flattish 200km to go, had probably mentally ticked the ride as done. My complacency was repaid by the arrival of the fenland hill (headwind) and rapidly rising temperatures which sapped energy and speed.


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## martint235 (4 Aug 2013)

tubbycyclist said:


> There is a clear winner for the leg that caused me the most difficulty: Saint Ives to Great Easton - the heat on Thursday afternoon was phenomenal, coupled with a strong headwind and the rolling terrain with 1300km in the legs meant I was down to a grovel at times. I suspect a lot of this was psychological, as I had started from Kirton that morning knowing that there was only a flattish 200km to go, had probably mentally ticked the ride as done. My complacency was repaid by the arrival of the fenland hill (headwind) and rapidly rising temperatures which sapped energy and speed.


 
This ^^^^

Thursday was the worst day for me too having also left Kirton that morning. The heat was brutal and it took I guess around 3 hours longer for me to complete that distance than I would normally expect. I even walked up one hill as I couldn't be bothered to waste the energy to cycle it.


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## Trickedem (4 Aug 2013)

Hardest leg for me was Kirton to St Ives. I left at 1pm and it was absolutely roasting hot and even worse there was a massive headwind. Finally my bike had developed the most annoying creak that occurred with every pedal stroke. I really had to dig deep on this one to keep going at a reasonable pace. There weren't enough riders around to form a chaingang so it felt like it was me against the wind. By the time I got to Whittlesey I was seriously worried that I was going to succumb to heatstroke, so I diverted to the Leisure Centre where I put my head under the shower for a few minutes, which seemed to help a bit. The next section of road was a nightmare, with busy traffic and very impatient drivers. Before long I got a very uneasy feeling as 2 paramedic cars, an Ambulance and a Police car came along the road. It turned out there had been an accident involving 2 other LEL riders. I stopped when I got to the scene, but was told to carry on as the injured riders were ok. Not surprisingly after this, the traffic was much better behaved. I still don't know the full story of the incident, but I am sure it will come out in time. 
Anyway the leg was 52 miles and I only managed to record an average speed of 9.1 mph. You can share my pain here: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/352281049
On the last few miles I caught up with #middleagedcyclist and we picked up the pace together into the control. It was nice to ride a few miles with a fellow CCer.


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## middleagecyclist (4 Aug 2013)

Trickedem said:


> On the last few miles I caught up with #middleagedcyclist and we picked up the pace together into the control. It was nice to ride a few miles with a fellow CCer.


@Trickedem. It was a pleasure riding with you. I'd lost my riding buddy a short while earlier who decided she was out of time and was going to rest her back. I was having a break from the hairdryer headwind so it was good to team up again. Great pulling in to the control together. Cheers.


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## MichaelO (4 Aug 2013)

Trickedem said:


> Anyway the leg was 52 miles and I only managed to record an average speed of 9.1 mph. You can share my pain here: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/352281049


The temperature graph


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## mmmmartin (5 Aug 2013)

Yes, that temperature was very high. When I was at Loughton the riders arriving at 1pm on Thursday were the fitter, faster ones and they were cheerful but said it was hot out there. As time passed those arriving were less fit and less fast and they were saying it was terrible - because of course they had ridden through the heat of the day as the hot headwind was becoming stronger. Those arriving in the early hours, as Tim did, were tired but not utterly on their knees because they had ridden the last several hours in the cooler dark hours. But someone I know who has done four PBPs and one LEL said it was one of the hardest he'd done because the last section was so brutal, when riders had 1,100k out of their legs and were riding into a stiff headwind in high temperatures. Not to mention that the last 50k is actually astonishingly hilly. 

To answer the question in this thread, my least favourite bit was riding the Howardian Hills, which I was not expecting and had some long ascents, and some short sharp gravelly descents. I walked some of those hills.


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## martint235 (5 Aug 2013)

mmmmartin said:


> To answer the question in this thread, my least favourite bit was riding the Howardian Hills, which I was not expecting and had some long ascents, and some short sharp gravelly descents. I walked some of those hills.


 I walked one of the Howardian Hills southbound. It was the one with all the gravel at the bottom and I'd decided when I rode it northbound that I'd be walking it southbound. I didn't even pretend to have a go at it.

I also walked a hill between St Ives and Great Easton that just seemed more trouble than it was worth to attempt in that heat.


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## tonyg52 (5 Aug 2013)

Riding the Fens with a +20kmph headwind is hard. Hills are finite the fens infinite.


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## mmmmartin (6 Aug 2013)

Martin has posted his blog

http://wp.me/pA55p-4K


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## frank9755 (6 Aug 2013)

Yes, I enjoyed reading it, too. I handn't realised that you'd gone into it without having ridden very much at all in the previous few months. 
It was a good photo!


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## velovoice (6 Aug 2013)

Fantastic read, Martin - well done! On both the Riding and the Writing.


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## middleagecyclist (13 Aug 2013)

I have been in touch with Danial who has very kindly given me permission to use the LEL logo to make up some stickers. I am not planning on getting many produced and will sell them at cost + P&P. They will be vinyl stickers suitable for attaching to frames/guards and shouldn't wrinkle at the first sign of water. I now need an idea of how many people would want a sticker or two so i can work out costs. 

Cheers.


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## martint235 (14 Aug 2013)

Great idea. I was going to get a tattoo, sticker sounds better. Put me down for a couple. I assume we're talking couple of cms square ish.


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## middleagecyclist (14 Aug 2013)

martint235 said:


> I assume we're talking couple of cms square ish.


Yes. Exact size to be sorted yet but i envisage similar to an Audax UK sticker.


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## ianrauk (14 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> Martin, the first time you have a shower I'm afraid the sticker will fall off.


 


He can stick one behind each of his lug 'oles.


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## middleagecyclist (15 Aug 2013)

Here's a first mock up. A round sticker on a blue background.


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## middleagecyclist (16 Aug 2013)

Some discusion on the LEL facebook group about the sticker design. I'm not planning on repeating the discussion there, here and the other place, so if you want some input pop on over.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/270220425749/


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## jefmcg (19 Aug 2013)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> The tracking says that Jefmcg dropped out at 0238 but then checked in at Pocklington at 0612 and I've seen her post on the LEL FB page. I don't want to pester her by text to check if she's ok in case she isn't or is sleeping.


 
Thanks for watching out for me, ABV

If anyone is interested, I indeed abandoned at Pocklington (after much semi-official nagging to do so at Thirsk) because I was exhausted and having real trouble staying awake but felt I didn't have time to sleep. After 3 or so blissful hours kipping on carpet, I awakened to find there were still 40 riders on the road, with hopes of finishing. I realised it wasn't over for me yet, either, and unabandoned and headed off, with a plan to do 300km faster than I ever had before. Strangely, this plan didn't work out  25km away I got a facebook email saying Market Rasen was closing. At my current pace, that was about 2 hours, so I stopped under a tree, called my father like I do every day and lay under a tree for a while. The pootled on to Market Rasen where I'd just missed a train. So sat in a cafe and hard ham, eggs and chips and pint of worthington's, then caught a train home.

The ride was a fantastic experience, but - omg - 1420km is a long way. So is 1165km, which is how far I got.


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## stevevw (21 Aug 2013)

Joan
You got further than me, well done. I see John was out of time too, shame when you both left Edinburgh I was confident with a bit of luck and your resolve you would both made it. How did Stacey get on?

All three of us have something to prove in 4 years time. I am having a year off of stupid long rides then will be back with a five year plan to conquer LEL 2017 then PBP 2019


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## jefmcg (21 Aug 2013)

Thanks Steve,

I saw John in Pocklington, before I collapsed. I know he cycled the distance, but was out of time. Stacey and I split between Brampton and Barnard's Castle. I was faster on the road, but needed more rest, so we slowed it other up. She made it further than I did, but not all the way. 

Steve, you were a hero on that ride, including the brave decision to stop. Glad to hear you'll be back.

I'm doing a 600km in September, and (hopefully) PBP in 2015 - with enough training to be ready, hopefully. We'll see, I've only been on the bike once since LEL - not even commuting.


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## Trickedem (22 Aug 2013)

Finally got round to writing up my memories of my ride. 
http://cyclingmagic.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1


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## velovoice (22 Aug 2013)

Marvellous read, Tim. Makes me wish LEL was within my grasp but realistically a snowball has a better chance in hell so will continue to live vicariously through accounts like yours, both Martins and of course Mr Allsopp' s. Chapeau to you all!


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## martint235 (30 Aug 2013)

According to someone who has worked this out, I finished 306th which I'm incredibly chuffed with. At one point (Traquair) I was 190th!


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## middleagecyclist (3 Sep 2013)

Here is the sticker design I have decided on. It is made of vinyl with a gloss laminated finish and is 3cm in diameter. I should have them in a week or so and will post some pics of an actual sticker in situ. I'll then let you know how to order and pay.


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## martint235 (3 Sep 2013)

middleagecyclist said:


> Here is the sticker design I have decided on. It is made of vinyl with a gloss laminated finish and is 3cm in diameter. I should have them in a week or so and will post some pics of an actual sticker in situ. I'll then let you know how to order and pay.


 
I would definitely still like 2 of them.


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## deptfordmarmoset (3 Sep 2013)

I like the design but I'm sorry to say I immediately thought of Enron.


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## middleagecyclist (16 Sep 2013)

I can now announce LEL stickers are ready for order and delivery. I've adjusted the design slightly due to printing issues (the company couldn't get the white border even all the way round so it had to go) but I really like the finished product. It's very sticky and the laminating works well when it gets wet.

The price is £1.00 per sticker but if you order 5 i'll add another couple free. Payment can be made by Paypal or cheque/SAE. Paypal incurs an additonal charge of £1.00 to cover charges and P&P in the UK and £1.50 for sending abroad. Cheque/SAE obviously has no additional cost. Please remember I'm only covering my costs and any extra is going to Danial Webb's chosen charity - Doris Banham Dog Rescue: www.dogsos.co.uk 

Send Paypal to <darrellwhittle [at] gmail.com>. Please remember to leave a note on paying confirming how many stickers you want and also your postal address. If you want to pay by cheque please email me with the subject: 'LEL Sticker' and I'll let you have my postal address.


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## martint235 (18 Sep 2013)

Mine arrived today and very good they are too. Cheers Darrell for sorting these.


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## Trickedem (19 Sep 2013)

Mine arrived yesterday. Thanks Darrell for getting these made. I shall be proudly wearing this on my commute tomorrow


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## GmanUK65 (20 Sep 2013)

I wouldn't mind doing the LEL in a few years time (not fit enough yet). I've worked out that about 180 miles have to be cycled every day. What sort of average speed or time on the saddle would be expected every day?


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## redflightuk (20 Sep 2013)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wouldn't mind doing the LEL in a few years time (not fit enough yet). I've worked out that about 180 miles have to be cycled every day. What sort of average speed or time on the saddle would be expected every day?


I finished in 116hrs 7mins and my riding time was 82hrs 31mins. So just under 34hrs for eating and resting.


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## martint235 (20 Sep 2013)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wouldn't mind doing the LEL in a few years time (not fit enough yet). I've worked out that about 180 miles have to be cycled every day. What sort of average speed or time on the saddle would be expected every day?


I guess it all depends on your plan. Mine was to front load the ride as much as I could so day one was 8.30am to 2.30am the following morning with eating stops of about 40mins at each place (3) and day 2 was 5am to 3.30am the following day again with about 40 mins at each stop (4 although I stopped at Barnard Castle long enough to lose the guy I was riding with). Day 3 and 4 were more sensible 6am to 10pm type stuff.


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## middleagecyclist (20 Sep 2013)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wouldn't mind doing the LEL in a few years time (not fit enough yet).


Youv'e got loads of time. Next LEL is 2017. You could always try for PBP 2015 but would need to get your qualifying rides done next year.


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## tubbycyclist (20 Sep 2013)

GmanUK65 said:


> I wouldn't mind doing the LEL in a few years time (not fit enough yet). I've worked out that about 180 miles have to be cycled every day. What sort of average speed or time on the saddle would be expected every day?



There are far too many variables to answer that question - the short answer is start riding longer distances and see what works for you. There will be 200's over the winter and then an opportunity to build up to 600's next summer. Once you have got these rides under your belt it will be much clearer - there are lots of different strategies to get round, and which ones you have to deploy depends how you are feeling at the time: do you need to keep pedalling, sleep, eat?

MAC is almost right about PBP 2015. Completing a long BRM (not just any audax will do) registered ride next year will allow for earlier pre-registration in PBP 2015 but you have to ride a 200/300/400/600 in 2015 to qualify. There are no country quotas anymore and the organising body are upping the number of places so it is unlikely to be "full".


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## GmanUK65 (20 Sep 2013)

martint235 said:


> I guess it all depends on your plan. Mine was to front load the ride as much as I could so day one was 8.30am to 2.30am the following morning with eating stops of about 40mins at each place (3) and day 2 was 5am to 3.30am the following day again with about 40 mins at each stop (4 although I stopped at Barnard Castle long enough to lose the guy I was riding with). Day 3 and 4 were more sensible 6am to 10pm type stuff.


So I take it you had only about 2 hours sleep between each ride. I suppose sleep depravation and riding back to back I will have to train myself to do too. Doing the LEL is a long term goal so still wont be ready for PBP 2015. I haven't done my first century yet.


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## martint235 (20 Sep 2013)

GmanUK65 said:


> So I take it you had only about 2 hours sleep between each ride. I suppose sleep depravation and riding back to back I will have to train myself to do too. Doing the LEL is a long term goal so still wont be ready for PBP 2015. I haven't done my first century yet.


On night 1 and night 2, yes. I do blame this for the emotional mess I was when I reached Barnard Castle on Tuesday night. I then had 6 hours sleep each on the last 2 nights.


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## tubbycyclist (20 Sep 2013)

From yacf: a provisional finisher's list is now on the AUK web site   No certificates/points yet until the provisional is confirmed though


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## martint235 (20 Sep 2013)

tubbycyclist said:


> From yacf: a provisional finisher's list is now on the AUK web site  No certificates/points yet until the provisional is confirmed though


 
I assume the two lists are AUK members and non-members?


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## tubbycyclist (20 Sep 2013)

martint235 said:


> I assume the two lists are AUK members and non-members?


 
That is right


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