# London to Paris 300 miles in 4 days for Amnesty International



## invisibleway (12 Feb 2014)

*Event title:* Cycle London to Paris for Amnesty International UK
*Event date/s:* 03/09/2014 - 07/09/2017
*Event location:* London
*Event organiser:* Skyline Events
*Your relationship:* CycleChat member passing on info
*Cost of entry:* £99
*Minimum sponsorship:* £1450
*Beneficiary:* Amnesty International UK
*Event link:* http://www.amnesty.org.uk/events/cycle-london-paris-2014

Hello,
I am doing this bike ride with a friend in September for Amnesty International UK as they do a lot of work for LGBTQ rights and we were moved by the appalling events in Russia as well as many other countries of course.

Or go directly to our just giving page here
http://www.justgiving.com/Elliot-Joy

Or you can even text EJJG50 and the amount to 70070. e.g EJJG50 £5


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## Roadrider48 (12 Feb 2014)

Why does there have to be a minimum amount of sponsorship? I have seen this before on other events.
Whatever happened to being grateful for what you can get?


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## invisibleway (13 Feb 2014)

I'm not sure, i've never done something like this. I guess they invest quite a lot in getting us there so want to
make sure your raise enough to actually allow them to cover costs and have money to use in the cause.
I think it's good to have a target, atm it seems unachievable but i'm sure we'll get there.


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## jefmcg (13 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Why does there have to be a minimum amount of sponsorship? I have seen this before on other events.
> Whatever happened to being grateful for what you can get?





> Transport (ferry crossing there; Eurostar back), accommodation, meals and luggage transportation are all covered by your registration fee and fundraising target - you don't need to worry about extra costs leading up to the trip



So donors are also paying for a nice holiday. 

http://www.discoveradventure.com/images/pdf/London to Paris Cycle Itinerary.pdf
The cost of that trip £800, so assuming they are similar, half the donations are paying for the trip.


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## Roadrider48 (13 Feb 2014)

jefmcg said:


> So donors are also paying for a nice holiday.
> 
> http://www.discoveradventure.com/images/pdf/London to Paris Cycle Itinerary.pdf
> The cost of that trip £800, so assuming they are similar, half the donations are paying for the trip.


For that particular ride I agree. But what about others? For example the London/surrey thing last August.
Just seems to me that it's rude to stipulate an amount when people are doing it out of the goodness of their heart.
I know free places are available on certain rides, but I'm talking the charity places.


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## jefmcg (13 Feb 2014)

Supply and demand: supply is very limited, so price goes up.


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## Haitch (13 Feb 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Supply and demand: supply is very limited, so price goes up.


 
Supply is infinite. Outside your door is a road. Ride it.


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## MissTillyFlop (13 Feb 2014)

Skyline are fab and they really look after you and they do allow you to pay for the costs up front, about £800, so everything people donate goes straight to the charity. 

I did it three years ago it'll was epic. I write blog: Misstillyflop.WordPress.com. Word of advice-for "undulation" , "read massive hill"


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## benb (13 Feb 2014)

It takes 3 years?


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## Roadrider48 (13 Feb 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Supply and demand: supply is very limited, so price goes up.


In that case it sort of becomes not charity anymore.
I just personally can't see how you can call something charity, when they're telling you how much you have to raise before you start.


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## benb (13 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> In that case it sort of becomes not charity anymore.
> I just personally can't see how you can call something charity, when they're telling you how much you have to raise before you start.



If you're doing an organised event that costs the charity a certain amount, then they need to make sure you raise at least that or they will not get any actual donations at all.
If you pay your own way first, then I agree there shouldn't be a minimum sponsorship amount.


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## invisibleway (13 Feb 2014)

I wouldn't agree donors are paying for a nice holiday at all... if I had the money for a holiday a 300 mile bike ride would not be my first choice.
Also if I had the money i'd also pay the costs myself but I don't so I'm doing the best I can and trying to achieve something for the greater good.
I will be donating to my own cause whenever money permits.
Putting on a big event to raise money and paying for all of those costs
Paying for permits to fundraise in the city centre and an accountant
Paying for flyers to be printed

Joy who i'm riding with and is a professional artist has made the sketch in my avatar
These are being made into prints and possibly t shirts. 
Costs paid for by us

And its not all about the money, all the events we are doing all the promo we are doing etc
is also raising awareness for human rights and LGBTQ rights in particular. Informing people
is also part of why we are doing this.

You can't donate to any charity without some of the money going to costs or wages.


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## Roadrider48 (13 Feb 2014)

invisibleway said:


> I wouldn't agree donors are paying for a nice holiday at all... if I had the money for a holiday a 300 mile bike ride would not be my first choice.
> Also if I had the money i'd also pay the costs myself but I don't so I'm doing the best I can and trying to achieve something for the greater good.
> I will be donating to my own cause whenever money permits.
> Putting on a big event to raise money and paying for all of those costs
> ...


I agree with your last sentence, make sense!
But I still think it's wrong to demand a certain amount or you can't enter.
I thought the basic fundamental of charity giving, is giving what you can, when you can?


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## clid61 (14 Feb 2014)

My understanding is
a) fixed ENTRY fee , ie our national charity rides, eg manchester to blackpool . Pay an entry fee , paid by ones good self , which covers the cost of admin for whatever needs administrating ?! Then you raise as much as you can for your charity .

b) london to paris is ENTRY fee as above + accomodation, supplied by the organiser ? so £799 for a cycling holiday . If you pay ENTRY fee + fundraising target of £1300 then its in your interests to raise that £1300, or more , to cover cost of trip cost (£650 ) and donation to charity (£650).

Does that sound right ?


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## Roadrider48 (14 Feb 2014)

clid61 said:


> My understanding is
> a) fixed ENTRY fee , ie our national charity rides, eg manchester to blackpool . Pay an entry fee , paid by ones good self , which covers the cost of admin for whatever needs administrating ?! Then you raise as much as you can for your charity .
> 
> b) london to paris is ENTRY fee as above + accomodation, supplied by the organiser ? so £799 for a cycling holiday . If you pay ENTRY fee + fundraising target of £1300 then its in your interests to raise that £1300, or more , to cover cost of trip cost (£650 ) and donation to charity (£650).
> ...


The entry fee is standard for these things, that I understand. And I'm assuming you have to pay that in advance to enter.
That's all cool. But my problem is charities telling you that you've got to guarantee a certain amount in sponsorship.
So the way I see it, is. £799 eg pays entry, accommodation etc. then you HAVE to raise £1500 for eg on top of that in sponsorship.
That's the part I can't really agree with. In my opinion charitable donations should be whatever you can raise, not what you're told you must raise.


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## jefmcg (14 Feb 2014)

It seems typically these rides are either: pay £800 and gather donations if you care to, or pay a token, and gather donations to double the cost of the ride.

Otherwise it would be scandalous: surely at least half of the donations must go to charity. 

Personally I'd never sponsor someone doing the second type, unless it was a young person that I somehow felt I should contribute to their holiday fund.


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## clid61 (15 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 and jefmcg

totally agree with you both!

Im off to Marrakech in April to ride the Marrakech Etape. Ive, independantly, payed for my own flights,accomodation and entry fee. 
Between now and then I'll be trying to raise as much money as possible for my chosen charity from people who can give whatever they want to .
I get my few days away funded solely by me and a charity benifits 100%, win win !


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## StuartG (17 Feb 2014)

I am deeply troubled by the charity ride business (the only word for it). I have run for charity, I have marshalled for charities - all for free.

My first marathon was just that. It was for two good causes I was involved with. It required me to start running and get up to marathon level in one year. I had no problem asking for sponsorship as they got a great deal - giving to something I was able to explain and enthuse over and, as a bonus, see me suffer and achieve. For me it was the incentive to do something I would never have done otherwise on a different planet to my comfort zone. Everybody won 100% value all round.

I'm hoping to Brompton to the Med this year. When I mention it I am often asked "who are you doing it for?". The answer is, of course, ME!
Its going to be hard, its going to take me nearly two weeks, its going to cost me a fair amount. But could I really ask people to contribute to something I would do anyway and being done for pleasure? I think that a cheat and why I will no any longer sponsor folks. This has become an industry and I'm too embarrassed to ask exactly how much of the donation would be spent on the charitable aims and what the cyclist is going to get out of it. Its overkilled itself.


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## invisibleway (20 Feb 2014)

Well, I see some people have strong opinions on cycle rides for charity
BUT - you will see we are spending as much of our own money as possible to do this and raise as much money as possible for Amnesty UK

And I need to reiterate that this is not all about money. As someone who was a stealth transman for years, with so much internal conflict, to come out and be open about the fact i'm trans was tough. But I wasn't comfortable sitting back and doing nothing to show LGBTQ abuse its disgusting.

And for example - Joy taking time to make art to sell without profit, being a professional artist is like anyone going to work and giving your wages to your cause.

This is the best we can do.... and as i've already said a holiday in my eyes would not be doing something that is going to give me uncomfortable things like saddle sore and risk being abused daily when people who had no idea I was trans decide i'm a freak and beat me up.

None of this is exaggerated either... so far i've been stabbed in the head, beaten up several times and this is the UK. I hate to think what people are suffering through in the eastern states like russia.... and now uganda has just passed a bill that its illegal to be LGBTQ.

Whatever your beliefs, whether you agree with LGBTQ issues or not... all I can say is 1 in 100 people are intersex without even knowing it... Trans is now recognised as a medical condition, just like any other medical problem, but its probably the only medical condition that invokes absolutely not sympathy because there's so much judgement and ignorant beliefs that we are really messed up and its a psychological issue.


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## Roadrider48 (20 Feb 2014)

It isn't an issue with charity, it's an issue with being told how much you HAVE to raise in advance or you can't enter.


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## ianrauk (21 Feb 2014)

And what happens if you don't make the minimum sponsorship? Do you have to pay the rest out of your own pocket? 
.


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## fossyant (21 Feb 2014)

These sort of things are well dodgy in my opinion. It's paying for a holiday. I'd love a few days away riding 300 miles. Not sure I would take as long though. Anyone want to send me a pound and I'll donate a quid to charity if I hit £1000.


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## fossyant (21 Feb 2014)

And, and here is the crunch, who are you ? A new member appears on a forum asking for money.

I don't know you, I wouldn't sponsor someone I didn't know, nor would I be paying for a holiday.


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## martint235 (21 Feb 2014)

ianrauk said:


> And what happens if you don't make the minimum sponsorship? Do you have to pay the rest out of your own pocket?
> .


 You either pay it yourself or you forfeit whatever up front fee you have paid is my understanding.

To me, if you want to go on a charity ride there are two things to consider:

1. If you and your friends get together, have an idea, publicise it, get sponsorship and then ride it, the charity will get the maximum benefit. London to Paris isn't difficult to organise really. I have separate issues about how much of the money donated goes to actually helping people and how much on administration.
2. It has to be a challenge. This is what makes it difficult for me personally. I applaud the people who do things like London to Brighton, I really do. But if I went round my friends and family and said "Will you sponsor me to ride 60 miles?" they'd laugh at me. So it's got to push you, it's got to hurt I suppose. Now with that in mind, it could also be something you'd do anyway. I asked for sponsorship for LEL last year and raised some but I was going to do LEL whatever really. It was a challenge though so I don't feel I misled anyone into paying for me to go on a 5 day bike ride (none of the sponsorship went towards costs anyway).

That's my tuppence


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

martint235 said:


> That's my tuppence


Having already put in my penny's worth on this I'm conscious we may be spoiling the generosity of body and spirit of the OP and others doing charity rides which, net, do much good.

The problem we have is essentially charities becoming businesses which need to extort money by various means to sustain themselves. But that has nothing specific to do with cycling and we really ought to be discussing in P+L lite or wherever. Not hijacking threads from their original purpose.

Except to be positive we really ought to build on DZ's work at low cost but professional charity cycle rides for those that need organising plus some self help info (in Touring & Expedition) for those who could get some extra fun for those who could be tempted to DIY and ensure 100% of donations can be used for charitable purposes. London Paris is certainly self organisable if you can read a map and take advice.


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## Martin Rees (7 Mar 2015)

just read through this and have to agree with the people saying that there shouldn't be a minimum amount to raise, for the most part. Charity is charity at the end of the day and most charities, when you contact them, are grateful for any donation.

I am also taking part in the London to Paris this year (September). this is being organised by Skyline and they state that there is a minimum level to raise of £1450 and a registration fee of £99 and of this only 50% go to the charity, however they also offer a self finance option which allows you to pay for the event yourself which is £99 and £750 for the cost of travel, food, accommodation, support teams ect. I have gone down this route and paid for this myself. I am raising money for charity (CRY) also but all monies raised will go straight to the charity but I do have to say that its the event organisers that give the minimum level not the charities themselves, or at least in this case it is.

just some food for thought if you planning on doing an event like this for charity.

@StuartG totally agree with you about L2P being self organisable this is totally true. My reasoning behind doing this with Skyline is that I have never attempted anything like this before and so would like to know that should something go wrong that there is a safety net there. I will most defiantly being touring more after this once I have the confidence that I can pull something like this off.


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