# Upgrading 700c wheels on a Giant Defy 3



## Monsieur Remings (16 Feb 2010)

Have recently bought a Giant Defy 3 and am looking at some point to upgrade the wheels to something better than the Alex DA22s on them already.

However, I don't know whether I need to replace the 9 speed cassette that comes with the bike. Here is the full spec but I don't know, due to inexperience, whether I can upgrade without having to find a rear wheel with a separate 9-speed cassette. Does that make sense?
http://www2.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/road/2428/32462/?collections_id=4


I was rather hoping I wouldn't have to...here's the spec anyway and if as I think I just have to buy the wheels and get my LBS to fit the cassette back on the new wheels then what would you recommend? Looking to spend around £150, preferably on ebay if you catch my drift. 

AS always thanks for any effort expended...


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## TheDoctor (16 Feb 2010)

The cassette will come straight off the old wheels and onto the new ones. No problem there. Wheels don't come with a cassette on them.

As for what wheels to get - my personal bias would be for handbuilt Mavic Open Pro rims on hubs as good as you can afford. At £150, that's likely to be Tiagra. Built properly, you'll get a set of light wheels that are pretty much bombproof. I've taken my ones up mountains, touring and a little light off-road.


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## accountantpete (16 Feb 2010)

Save up for some Campagnolo Zonda's or Eurus' - second hand pairs go for around the £200 mark. You have to be a bit patient waiting for the right pair to come up but they do make a big difference.

These are middle ranking reliable non-aero wheels - the only downside is that you will also discover aero wheels exist and these will empty your wallet Sam!

ps -also Fulcrum Racing 3/5's are roughly the same as the above

eghttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shimano-Fulcr...ikeparts_SR?hash=item3a57ce5421#ht_691wt_1165


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## Monsieur Remings (16 Feb 2010)

Okay, thanks chaps. Those fulcrums come with the hubs then do they Pete? Sorry for the ignoramasaurus rearing his gormless head again but do most wheels come with hubs or do you, or can you buy them separately?

And, if I was to bid on them, what do you reckon would be the top price I should pay and would they fit the Giant spec (though I presume they do).


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## John the Monkey (16 Feb 2010)

The doc is right about handbuilts though.

I'd skip mavic, personally, their prices have got a bit silly lately. DRC do good rims at decent prices - talk to your local wheel builder. My handbuilts were DRC ST18 II rims on Tiagra. Lovely wheels, and no bother with proprietary spokes, stupid low spoke counts &c &c.


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## John the Monkey (16 Feb 2010)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Okay, thanks chaps. Those fulcrums come with the hubs then do they Pete? Sorry for the ignoramasaurus rearing his gormless head again but do most wheels come with hubs or do you, or can you buy them separately?


Yep.

A wheel is hub + spokes + rim - anything else is just the bits, innit.

The rear wheel will have a freehub body (that can be replaced entirely, so its removable) but your wheel should come with it.

Changing a cassette is really easy, and worth knowing how to do (that way you can keep your Alex' for poor weather, commuting &c, and save your good wheels for best). 

Simple instructions here;

http://bicycletutor.com/replace-cassette-cluster/


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## Fab Foodie (16 Feb 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> Yep.
> 
> A wheel is hub + spokes + rim - anything else is just the bits, innit.
> 
> ...



You will need to buy wheels with cassette hubs that match the make of your drive-train as wheels are either Shimano or Campagnolo compatible.

There are lots of sexy choices out there, but for all round reliable usability I'd also go with Open Pro rims on the best hubs you can buy.


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## Monsieur Remings (16 Feb 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> The doc is right about handbuilts though.
> 
> I'd skip mavic, personally, their prices have got a bit silly lately. DRC do good rims at decent prices - talk to your local wheel builder. My handbuilts were DRC ST18 II rims on Tiagra. Lovely wheels, and no bother with proprietary spokes, stupid low spoke counts &c &c.



Thanks to one and all. I presume you mean DRC *rims* on Tiagra *hubs*?


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## TheDoctor (16 Feb 2010)

That's correct.


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## accountantpete (16 Feb 2010)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Okay, thanks chaps. Those fulcrums come with the hubs then do they Pete? Sorry for the ignoramasaurus rearing his gormless head again but do most wheels come with hubs or do you, or can you buy them separately?
> 
> And, if I was to bid on them, what do you reckon would be the top price I should pay and would they fit the Giant spec (though I presume they do).



You need to ask the Seller if they are Shimano or Campag,how old they are and whether they are true and if there is any damage to the rims,hubs and spokes. He doesn't seem to want to give any indication of the condition so I would be a little wary- just linking it as an example of what you can look out for.


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## Monsieur Remings (16 Feb 2010)

Thanks Pete, Doctor and one and all.

Last question, I presume with an open-pro rim, like these: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...yJ20CQ&usg=AFQjCNEKTwTWQ3WyITY0MCLzY1qjQICXCg
that you have to buy the spokes separately? Do they come in set and how tough are they to fit and how expensive are they?


Trust me, the boy is learning.... Thanks for the patience.


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## monkeypony (17 Feb 2010)

Yes you'll need to buy the spokes seperately. You'll also need to know what length to buy. 

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/ This site should help you with that.

Then you'll need a jig to build the wheels in.

Then you'll need to drive yourself slowly insane as each adjustment you make to true the wheel for left to right movement turns your rim slightly egg shaped and you need to then cure the up and down movement. Which will effect the left to right movement......

Trust me - good wheelbuilding is a real art. Get a pro to build the wheels for you. Its a lot easier and an expensive wheel badly built is far worse than a cheap factory wheel!


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## Monsieur Remings (17 Feb 2010)

All sounds a tad fiddly for a new rider. Now, if I was to push out the budget a bit, what do you reckon to these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2010-Shimano-...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR?hash=item439cdf16e5

I'll keep the Alex rims for a rainy day, buy the tool for removing the cassette and have a good pair and another pair.

Or would they look out of place on a £600 bike?


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## monkeypony (17 Feb 2010)

Thats not a bad price really. The hubs are worth about £130 on their own.

Wont be as good as handbuilt wheels but will do the job very well.


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## John the Monkey (17 Feb 2010)

monkeypony said:


> Trust me - good wheelbuilding is a real art. Get a pro to build the wheels for you. Its a lot easier and an expensive wheel badly built is far worse than a cheap factory wheel!


It's a process, imo. Be methodical, start with good quality bits & do your measurements carefully.

I highly recommend Roger Musson's Wheelbuilding e-book as a fantastic place to start.


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## gavintc (17 Feb 2010)

Changing the cassette is a useful skill to pick up early in your bike ownership. The tools are not that expensive and in my opinion, worth having. You will need a chain whip and a spanner that fits the end of the cassette. Campag and Shimano need different spanners - so watch out that you get the correct one. Just remove the skewer (the quick release and metal rod) first. You will need to apply a bit of muscle to get the thing moving and when you do watch out that do not leave the skin from your knuckles on the cassette (I think we all have at some time - but you learn from your mistakes!!).


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## Monsieur Remings (17 Feb 2010)

monkeypony said:


> Thats not a bad price really. The hubs are worth about £130 on their own.
> 
> Wont be as good as handbuilt wheels but will do the job very well.



And a darn sight better than the Alex rims you think? Any other recommendations for around that price apart from those mentioned?

Will definitely buy the tools needed to remove the cassette...thanks again one and all, much appreciated.


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## John the Monkey (17 Feb 2010)

aksiums are a decent choice - I got mine 2nd hand with very little mileage on them, from this very forum. Be aware that spokes for them are pricey though.


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## Monsieur Remings (17 Feb 2010)

What about these...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...2fGmAw&usg=AFQjCNHO6yd-unZsVFoP5HlHJh8QOqzChg

These Eastons above or the Ultegra?

From what I gather and please tell me if I'm wrong, although you could maybe save money by purchasing rims, spokes and hubs separately to make your own handbuilt, if you had to pay someone to do put it all together this would push the cost up considerably yes? I'm not ready to give making my own a go yet...no chance.

Thanks again people.


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## gavintc (17 Feb 2010)

I was given these for Christmas. I have not fitted them yet, but they are lightweight. They will replace a pair of Shimano 105 wheels that are now pretty well worn out on the rim after about 4 yrs hard us. I was waiting for the end of winter before I make the change so cannot comment on what they are like.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Shimano-Pr-Wheels-Ultegra-6700-Clincher/SHIMWHFR615


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