# Can you really average 20MPH?



## weely (28 Sep 2008)

I have an old MTB (about 10 years old) but it was a free gift it is a german make- Bergamont. Has anyone heard of them?

Well This bike is of good quality, but it is heavy. I commute 16 miles 5days a week so I do 80 miles a week on a cycle path made of tarmac and fine gravel. It takes me 40mins to do 8 miles both ways and that averages out at about 12 MPH.

Will this improve if I upgrade to a road/tourer/hybrid? 

Oh i have a budget of £500

David


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## Soltydog (28 Sep 2008)

I struggle to average 20mph on my hybrid (Spesh Globe)doing a 16 mile commute on similar surfaces to you, but due to the number of barriers & gates on the TPT this brings my speed down somewhat. I reckon on a good day I can average 17mph, with a tailwind  but normally nearer 15-16mph.
On my road bike (Allez Elite) over a similar distance but all tarmac roads, best i've averaged is 22.5mph, but that was going for it most of the way, normally i average 18ish on the road bike.
i would imagine your speed would improve with either a hybrid or road bike, but best improvements would certainly be a road bike


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## sleuthey (28 Sep 2008)

Looking at my speedo I average 15 mph on the same terrain on a City Bike with slick tyres and no suspension.

When I had a dual suspension MTB I was averaging about 12 so there is a significant difference.

I do find however that Ill average 15 when going flat out but because of the crossings, braking to avoid dogs / children etc. that Ill only do 12 miles in one hour. It all adds up.

Before spending £500 on a new bike it might be worth spending £25 on some slick tyres. If your allready using knobblies you may get an extra 2 mph. Maybe some Schwalbe City Jet or other 26*1.5.


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## dudi (28 Sep 2008)

I can average around 20mph for up to 15 miles on my fixie. 
I went on a 55mile trip today and average about 16mph. 
this is on a road bike though, I know i'd be nowhere near that speed on a MTB.


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## Tynan (28 Sep 2008)

with lights and traffic london rush hour stylee I average16mph, I reckon I'm always in the in low 20s on the flat

so yeah, with a proper set up roadie


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## HLaB (29 Sep 2008)

On my heavy commuter (Ridgeback Velocity Hybrid) with a steep uphill I only average around 13mph I can really work and get it a bit faster but its not sustainable over time. On my flat bar road bike I'd average around 14.5mph on a hilly route. I've got it up to around 17.5mph average for a flatter route. On the drop barred bike, I was only 15.2 mph for the hilly 102miles today but its usually faster than that. Over a varying course I'd average around 16.5-18.5mph on the flat it'd be around 20-22.


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## wafflycat (29 Sep 2008)

20mph average is achieved by a lot of cyclists (not me, alas..). Depends on route, bike, weather conditions...


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## Angelfishsolo (29 Sep 2008)

_*I*__*'m so very glad to read this thread*_. Although I have no Cycle Computer I estimate my average speed by time to cover a known distance. Considering my Apollo Kaos MTB bike is now around 17 years old I am averaging 12 mph over South Wales Valleys roads (ie flat. hilly, flat, hilly - lol) and I was unsure if this was any good or not.


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## pinkkaz (29 Sep 2008)

I do a london commute and only average 12mph. Although this is with 60 pairs of traffic lights (which I stop for!) zebra crossings and innumerable give ways (not to mention looking out for dozy pedestrians and REALLY slow cyclists on central London cycle lanes). I'd love to see what I could do on the open road but I'm new to cycling (ish - started in April) so haven't had a chance yet. I'm cycling from London to Salisbury at the end of October though - can't wait!

When I look at my computer I'm usually doing 15-19mph.

PS - missed the point! This is with a hybrid. I don't think I would actually go any quicker on a road bike as it's all the stopping which slows me down. Saying that, I wouldn't like to do it on a mountain bike - I'm always overtaking them!


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## Tynan (29 Sep 2008)

a road bike really is a league ahead of a hybrid, far quicker acceleration as well as an higher and more easily sustained top speed


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## pinkkaz (29 Sep 2008)

Actually I would like a road bike. However, I think my next bike will be a tourer!

(when I can afford it...)


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## Nick1979 (29 Sep 2008)

wafflycat said:


> 20mph average is achieved by a lot of cyclists (not me, alas..). Depends on route, bike, weather conditions...



I don't agree. Average speeds you read on forums seem frequently inflated to me. 20mph average is definitively fast and only a very fit, trained cyclist (competent club cyclist or 4th/3rd cat racer) can really go faster.
Of course I talk about real average speed, i.e. measured on a circular route of more than a few miles, with a properly calibrated computer. It's easy to do 23mph average on a 5 miles route with a tailwind 
Soltydog, 22.5mph average is a very respectable 10 miles time trial speed, if the figure is accurate and on a 16 miles loop, you should definitively give your local TT/races a try!


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## RedBike (29 Sep 2008)

Not any more. 

I used to be able to average that sort of pace if the conditions were right. In other words no hills and few reasons to have to slow (lights/ junctions). It didn't take much to cause my average speed to tumble. 

To average 20mph you normally have to ride at 23/25mph pace to compensate for the bits where you're slower. Now, due to lack of fitness, I seem to ride at 18mph on the flat and therefore only average about 15mph if i'm lucky! 

If you look at the results for sportive / audax rides you'll see that even on the flat routes very few riders get close to averaging 20mph.


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## domtyler (29 Sep 2008)

My commuting average on my fixed wheel road bike is 19.1 mph through London.
Over a longer distance, say 120 miles, on a geared road bike I can get a shade over 17 mph.
I have never beaten the hour for a 25TT although only missed it by a few seconds.
On my recent touring holiday in Germany my average was just under 10 kph!* 

*That was mainly off road and with my parents, wife and two year old on the back though! 

Edit: Just to pre-empt any wise cracks from Fnaar/Maz etc., it was just the kid on the back, not my parents and wife as well, they had their own bikes.


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## thecyclingsyndicalist (29 Sep 2008)

Gosh, you fit people. I don't reckon to average more than about 16mph on a longish run, say 40+ miles. Mind you, I go much faster than that when I cycle home from work! To get back to the origional thread, I wouldn't want to ride the tow paths, etc on a bespoke road bike, surely far better to fit smooth tyres on the mtb?


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## wafflycat (29 Sep 2008)

Nick1979 said:


> I don't agree. Average speeds you read on forums seem frequently inflated to me. 20mph average is definitively fast and only a very fit, trained cyclist (competent club cyclist or 4th/3rd cat racer) can really go faster.
> Of course I talk about real average speed, i.e. measured on a circular route of more than a few miles, with a properly calibrated computer. It's easy to do 23mph average on a 5 miles route with a tailwind
> Soltydog, 22.5mph average is a very respectable 10 miles time trial speed, if the figure is accurate and on a 16 miles loop, you should definitively give your local TT/races a try!




I actually know of a lot of cyclists who regularly average 20mph and over on distances of up to say, 25 miles. I'm talking of having these properly timed, computer and stopwatch. These folk are fit cyclists, who cycle regularly, train hard.. and are, as I said, fit. Unlike yours truly. Sigh..

Nothing to do with any of the posters on the forum..


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## rich p (29 Sep 2008)

I did a 27 min 10 mile through and off with a mate which equates to 22 mph. It's not something I could or would attempt to do normally. I was very happy to get to the end and I wouldn't have wanted to have to go into work immediately afterwards. Having said that, I'm 54 and a stone overweight and some of the club riders who shoot past me on a Saturday spin would find it a lot easier to do a 20 average, I'm sure.


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## gavintc (29 Sep 2008)

20 mph is certainly achievable but it takes some dedication and training. It has taken me about a year to get my 17 mile commute from 18 mph to 20-22 mph, but if I am honest, if I hit a strong wind, my av speed drops horribly. On a longer training run of 40 miles or more, I struggle to reach this av speed. But, there are friends for whom this is well within their legs. 

You need a road bike - even a winter bike would do, but you need road tyres. You also need to spend some time developing those leg muscles and stamina.


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## Nick1979 (29 Sep 2008)

wafflycat said:


> I'm talking of having these properly timed, computer and stopwatch.


The important bit is to measure on a *circular* loop, to avoid having a wrong figure because of the wind. If you measure from A to B (for example on a commute), you will have a figure 2-3mph higher than the "real" average when the wind is favourable. On a commute, the way to do it is to average the outbound and inbound legs, instead of taking the best of the two times!

Wafflycat, I was just trying to put things in perspective. I don't want people on this board (especially on the Beginners forum) to feel sorry because they can't make 20mph average when everybody else seem to be able to!
I don't doubt your friends can do 20mph, but they are not "a lot of cyclists" then. 20mph proper average is fast, very fast actually. No "average Joe" rider, even regular cyclists and fit, can do that. You have to have a proper, racing level training for that. Actually someone who can average 20mph on their own *in a 25 miles loop* would probably do well in a 3rd cat race.

Another example that might reassure people: on a lot of sportives, 17mph is the average speed needed to obtain a *gold brevet*. A gold brevet is exactly what it implies: a reward for very good (best 10% or so) riders. Admittedly, sportives are long and most of the time (very) hilly but yet, 17mph is for the elite!


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## marinyork (29 Sep 2008)

What is the speed difference though for a hybrid? Some people seem to say a gigantic 2 or 3mph and some others seem to think it so small as to not be worth mentioning?

The other thing is I reckon a two or three thousand feet worth of climbs has got to be worth a fair bit in speed.


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## domtyler (29 Sep 2008)

Nick1979 said:


> Actually someone who can average 20mph on their own *in a 25 miles loop* would probably do well in a 3rd cat race.



RRing is a totally different story Nick, as I suspect you know. Fitness and speed is only a relatively small part of a total package of abilities that will allow you to participate with any level of success.


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## wafflycat (29 Sep 2008)

Nick1979 said:


> The important bit is to measure on a *circular* loop, to avoid having a wrong figure because of the wind. If you measure from A to B (for example on a commute), you will have a figure 2-3mph higher than the "real" average when the wind is favourable. On a commute, the way to do it is to average the outbound and inbound legs, instead of taking the best of the two times!
> 
> Wafflycat, I was just trying to put things in perspective. I don't want people on this board (especially on the Beginners forum) to feel sorry because they can't make 20mph average when everybody else seem to be able to!
> I don't doubt your friends can do 20mph, but they are not "a lot of cyclists" then. 20mph proper average is fast, very fast actually. No "average Joe" rider, even regular cyclists and fit, can do that. You have to have a proper, racing level training for that. Actually someone who can average 20mph on their own *in a 25 miles loop* would probably do well in a 3rd cat race.
> ...



Hence my saying I can't manage 20mph.. and yes, I know how to time, and I mentioned the ones I know who do over 20mph are fit, thanks very much


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## purplemoon (29 Sep 2008)

wafflycat said:


> *20mph average* is achieved by a lot of cyclists (*not me, alas..*). Depends on route, bike, weather conditions...



I'm certainly glad to hear that! 

I probably average around half that speed on (flat!) roads at the moment, but then I've not yet covered any considerable distance to know how long I could keep it up. It took twice as long to do the forest red route but that's more of a MTB route with lots of twists, turns and obstacles


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## wafflycat (29 Sep 2008)

Oh I am quite proud of being a ninja pootler, going from Ye Olde Tea Shoppe to Ye Olde Tea Shoppe...


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## Nick1979 (29 Sep 2008)

domtyler said:


> RRing is a totally different story Nick, as I suspect you know. Fitness and speed is only a relatively small part of a total package of abilities that will allow you to participate with any level of success.



I completely agree Dom! But it was just to give an idea of what level of speed/fitness 20mph average is.
In a race your speed would actually be much faster because you spend most of your time (well, hopefully ) in a tight bunch, gaining 3-4 mph "for free".


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## elvisparsley (29 Sep 2008)

The thing about commuting by bike, you generally take the shortest route which isn't always the route where you can achieve high averages due to junctions and traffic lights etc, no matter how hard you try. The straight main roads where you can get into your stride are more likely to be used by drivers getting into their stride too


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## PaulB (29 Sep 2008)

What a load of big puffs you lot are! Them cyclists in the world champs yesterday averaged better than 40 kilometres an hour over 250 odd kilometres and over 3,000 metres of climb. You should all be ashamed of yourselves


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## Angelfishsolo (29 Sep 2008)

25Mph is an amazingly fast average speed I agree. I'm no puff though, just _Geeky Gay_ lol (Well that's what an ex-girlfriend used to say anyway ;-) )


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## HLaB (29 Sep 2008)

marinyork said:


> What is the speed difference though for a hybrid? Some people seem to say a gigantic 2 or 3mph and some others seem to think it so small as to not be worth mentioning?
> 
> The other thing is I reckon a two or three thousand feet worth of climbs has got to be worth a fair bit in speed.



Depend on the hybrid IME, on my heavy hybrid on the same hilly route if I really work I can only get around 13.6mph whereas on my flat bar road bike (some call it a hybrid) I comfortably do around 14.5mph on average and when I've really worked I've got it up to around 16mph. However on the drops I'd comfortably do around 15.5mph and really working on that I get around 17mph.


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## Soltydog (29 Sep 2008)

Nick1979 said:


> Soltydog, 22.5mph average is a very respectable 10 miles time trial speed, if the figure is accurate and on a 16 miles loop, you should definitively give your local TT/races a try!



Unfortunately it wasn't a loop, it was my commute to work with a gentle tail wind all the way  Can't remember what my time was coming home that day, but it will probably have been well under 20mph average on the return journey


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## gbb (29 Sep 2008)

Can I average 20mph ?...no 
There are so many variables for each person...
myself ?...cycling seriously for 5 or so years, now 50, slim build and relatively fit..and ride on my own. 
2 years ago, i was REALLY trying to up my average on a road bike..pushing pushing for up to 45 miles...and i had to work REALLY hard to up it to 18 mph average (from 16 mph). 
I was riding about 80 miles per week...


I reckon if you're young, put in some serious'ish mileage and really go for it...you should be able to average 20mph over 30 / 40 miles in a true loop...not one way....with some hard work.

But realistically...if you're 'a bit older'  with limited years on a bike, doing limited mileage...it's much much harder to achieve these kinds of average speeds.

On the other point, Hybrid vs Road....my Trek hybrid would NEVER allow me to achieve the same averages as my roadbike.
The gearing is often completely different...48T hybrid chainwheel vs 50 or 52T road chainwheel, then the skinny tyres on a roadbike...no chance the average hybrid can stay with a roadbike.

Or perhaps i never achieved 20 mph average because i'm...well, crap 

The irony is, as slow as i think i am (and i'm not that slow)....it's very very rare i get overtaken...so where are all these guys that go so fast ?


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## bonj2 (29 Sep 2008)

on my current commute (28.8 miles) I did it today coming back from work to home in 1:19 so that is slightly over 20, but it is apparently very slightly downhill all the way, with one short sweet climb in the middle, and not many traffic lights apart from at the start. Slight (6mph) tailwind today aswell, but i was quite pleased to get under the 1:20 mark.
On a good day I'll get around 18mph on the way in, and i'll be pleased with that, sometimes drops to high 17s.
When i commute to sheffield it's more like low 17s as it's lots hillier (and the roads are a lot worse - come on derbyshire pull your finger out )



Nick1979 said:


> I don't agree. Average speeds you read on forums seem frequently inflated to me. 20mph average is definitively fast and only a very fit, trained cyclist (competent club cyclist or 4th/3rd cat racer) can really go faster.
> Of course I talk about real average speed, i.e. measured on a circular route of more than a few miles, with a properly calibrated computer. It's easy to do 23mph average on a 5 miles route with a tailwind
> Soltydog, 22.5mph average is a very respectable 10 miles time trial speed, if the figure is accurate and on a 16 miles loop, you should definitively give your local TT/races a try!



I think people don't so much lie, but they do record themselves having achieved a good average over a short distance, and then repeat this conclusion in the context of a different discussion which may be about longer distances.


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## bonj2 (29 Sep 2008)

marinyork said:


> What is the speed difference though for a hybrid? Some people seem to say a gigantic 2 or 3mph and some others seem to think it so small as to not be worth mentioning?
> 
> The other thing is I reckon a two or three thousand feet worth of climbs has got to be worth a fair bit in speed.



it mainly depends on the tyres. Also the fact that on a road bike you're lower so more out of the wind. I know i do go faster when i use my drops, enough to go about 1 or even 2 gears higher up.

I think difference between a hybrid and a road bike is a lot less on the uphills - as the rolling resistance isn't as much due to the fact it's proportional to speed. On the flat or downhill though is where the road bike is going to pull away. The thing i love about my road bike is it doesn't take that steep a downhill to be batting along at nearly 30mph.


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## wlc1 (29 Sep 2008)

I have a 18 mile ( or so - route dependant) commute to work. I averaged a few weeks ago ( last time I rode in) 22.3mph from Surrey to South London.

I just try hard and want to get to work shattered then I'm happy. Jelly legs and all. 

The more you do it the faster you become, the quicker you recover and the more you enjoy it.

Get a road bike and watch the times tumble with time.


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## dantheman (30 Sep 2008)

over four months, my commute avg has gone from 12.5 - 15 mph, thats with a few hills, not pedalling down them, and not pushing that hard, when i push it hard its more like 17/18 mph avg, on a hybrid, commute is 7 miles each way, one traffic light, one busy (motorway junction) roundabout.


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## wlc1 (30 Sep 2008)

Coming home is a different story though.

Average 14.1 - slightly uphill and I'm exhausted after a 12 hour shift. 

Swings and roundabouts.


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## Noeyedear (30 Sep 2008)

I'm fairly new to cycling (I'm 50 years old) so I'm not sure what is fast and what is slow. I also live in Norfolk, although not totally flat I do have to look for the hills, some are steep but none are long and steep. My bike was a 20 year old MTB with semi off road tyres, according to my GPS over about 30+ miles I would average 13 - 13.5 mph mostly country roads. That bike is off the road now, so I have been using my Wife's Marin flat-bar machine, it's a bit small for me and I can only get the low and middle range of gears, it has touring road tyres. Sunday I did 37 miles at an average of 15.5, I'm sure I could be much quicker on average if my backside was not in agony after about 15 miles. So much so I'm thinking of a recumbent as my next bike. These are all averages according to my Garmin 60Csx. My MTB is a struggle to get to 25mph going downhill. If only I could just get this comfort thing sorted!!
I was thinking of the Jake the Snake as a good all round machine, I'm just not sure I can stand the pain of a saddle. I've tried a few now at great expense.

Kevin.


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## 4F (30 Sep 2008)

Kevin, have you tried a specialised toupe ? I have tried a fair few over the years including a brooks B17  for 3000 miles which felt as uncomfortable on the last day as the first until I tried the toupe. 

I have now used this on rides of up to 100 miles and have to say for me it has been a joy to sit on


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## bonj2 (30 Sep 2008)

i've got a specialized toupe it's excellent.


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## purplemoon (1 Oct 2008)

Is it a big hairy one? 










I'll get my coat!


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## Angelfishsolo (1 Oct 2008)

LMAO 

So do big hairy ones do it for you then? ;-)



purplemoon said:


> Is it a big hairy one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Vitesse (2 Oct 2008)

Average speeds depend a lot on traffic and road conditions. A few delays at roundabouts/junctions is all it takes to knock several mph off an average over shorter distances. I find it pretty amazing that anyone can manage over 20mph unless they have a clear road.


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## Angelfishsolo (2 Oct 2008)

I guess it would be really wrong of me to ask what type of mathematical average you are talking about B) http://www.projectgcse.co.uk/maths/averages.htm


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## Morgan (2 Oct 2008)

I live in New Zealand - not many cars and not many traffic lights. When I first started commuting 30 miles a day on an MTB my average speed was around 12 mph. It didn't take long before I decided to buy a road bike and my average speed was soon up to around 18mph. Get a road bike and stop dragging that lump of iron to and from work every day.


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## purplemoon (2 Oct 2008)

Angelfishsolo said:


> LMAO
> 
> So do big hairy ones do it for you then? ;-)




Now THAT would be telling!  B)


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## Angelfishsolo (2 Oct 2008)

Indeed it would 


purplemoon said:


> Now THAT would be telling!


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## Noeyedear (2 Oct 2008)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Kevin, have you tried a specialised toupe ? I have tried a fair few over the years including a brooks B17  for 3000 miles which felt as uncomfortable on the last day as the first until I tried the toupe.
> 
> I have now used this on rides of up to 100 miles and have to say for me it has been a joy to sit on



Why would a toupe be any better? I get advice all the time then someone else contradicts it. It's so confusing and you can't just keep laying out money until one fits. Last Sunday just about did it for me, it was making my backside painful and the top of my inner thighs as well.
If anyone knows how you can test a saddle without buying it please let me know, I might get close to 20mph average if I can get comfy.

Cheers,

Kevin.


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## wlc1 (2 Oct 2008)

Test one in a LBS on a turbo trainer... or just put up with it... your arse and inner thighs will get used to it. Ya big girl


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## Vitesse (2 Oct 2008)

Pah! Who needs a saddle?


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## 4F (2 Oct 2008)

Noeyedear said:


> Why would a toupe be any better? I get advice all the time then someone else contradicts it. It's so confusing and you can't just keep laying out money until one fits. Last Sunday just about did it for me, it was making my backside painful and the top of my inner thighs as well.
> If anyone knows how you can test a saddle without buying it please let me know, I might get close to 20mph average if I can get comfy.
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



In the specialised shop your sit bones (piece of memory foam) are measured and then this determines the width required. It certainly is a minefield out there as before that I bought a brooks B17 and found it bloody awful despite giving it 3000 miles to "break in" and being told it was the best thing since sliced bread. You could go to a specialised shop with the intention of buying one, get measured up and then change your mind before purchase. Then look around for a 2nd hand one to try before purchasing a new one as I admit they are quite pricey if it does not become friends with your backside


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## subsonicgroover (11 Oct 2008)

*Bikes make a difference to average speed*

I used to ride a mountain bike with a touring group. It had big road going tyres and I used a short handlebar and dropped it low so it would go faster. When on my own I used to log my average speed for a 10mile cruise at around 17mph. I assume a road bike wouldnt be much quicker. I was wrong. When I eventually got one I could maintain 19mph average on the same rides with same effort. Everthing counts: the high pressure tyres, smaller frontal area, lighter bike, no fork bounce up hills, better saddle, lower riding position, better bars for powerful posture, less frame flex etc. Somehow the bike always felt quicker too. Of course when I joined a faster group to tour with it became *much *quicker.

http://www.heronsplace.com


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## ASC1951 (12 Oct 2008)

You mean it's possible to go even faster than 17mph? 

My red flag man only does 15 mph flat out downhill.


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## summerdays (12 Oct 2008)

I'm afraid my average is much much lower than all the above - I don't get into double figures as an average according to my computer. I will add though that this includes walking time with the bike, red lights, traffic, slow kid cycling and hills which I tend to do at 4 mph! But I still manage to overtake about a third of the Bristol cyclists (I obviously pick out the slow ones to overtake).


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## alecstilleyedye (13 Oct 2008)

cyclists' average speed are akin to fishermen's tales of the one that got away…

this morning i hit 30mph on a slight incline btw


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## johnnyh (13 Oct 2008)

I seem to have an average of between 13.5 and 15 mph route dependant, that on my Giant Boulder with 26x1.95 road tyres. Parts of a journey can go along at 20mph, a couple of downhills can top 30mph, but by the end it is always about the same.

I'm guessing not to expect too much more out of a mountain bike, other than improving my stamina and distance/overall fitness.


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## wafflycat (13 Oct 2008)

alecstilleyedye said:


> cyclists' average speed are akin to fishermen's tales of the one that got away…
> 
> this morning i hit 30mph on a slight incline btw



Heck, I'm quite content pootling along at 10 - 12mph average! Mind you a long downhill, with a tail wind, did get me up to 42mph. Once.


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## Lazy-Commuter (13 Oct 2008)

johnnyh said:


> I seem to have an average of between 13.5 and 15 mph route dependant, that on my Giant Boulder with 26x1.95 road tyres. Parts of a journey can go along at 20mph, a couple of downhills can top 30mph, but by the end it is always about the same.
> 
> I'm guessing not to expect too much more out of a mountain bike, other than improving my stamina and distance/overall fitness.


You are my doppelganger. The only difference is I've got a Rincon with 26x1.85s on it. Other than that, snap!


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## johnnyh (13 Oct 2008)

Lazy-Commuter said:


> You are my doppelganger.



well I had to be someones somewhere


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## Cyberdad (13 Oct 2008)

summerdays said:


> I'm afraid my average is much much lower than all the above - I don't get into double figures as an average according to my computer. I will add though that this includes walking time with the bike, red lights, traffic, slow kid cycling and hills which I tend to do at 4 mph! But I still manage to overtake about a third of the Bristol cyclists (I obviously pick out the slow ones to overtake).



You're quicker than me  . My 5.5 mile each way commute on my BSO sees me struggle to average 9 mph. Although when I started I was struggling to get 6.5 mph, so I am pleaseed with the progress .


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Oct 2008)

Just never meet. That is supposed to be very bad news!!! 


johnnyh said:


> well I had to be someones somewhere


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## monnet (13 Oct 2008)

I average around 17mph on my 8mile commute. About 18-20mph when I'm out with the club, 17-20mph on my own and 23-25mph when I'm out with the chainy. It all depends on the weather, if I'm riding in a group and who's in the group- and of course the terrain.


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## monnet (13 Oct 2008)

I can also say, hand on heart I've done plenty of rides at 'evens', both solo and group riding (and the solos weren't just TT's)


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## HJ (14 Oct 2008)

I have done it on a hybrid with a pannier, it is that hard (if you have a decent hill on the way home)...


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