# Elbows on handlebars.



## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Does anyone know if you can buy the forward pointing handlebars that allow you to rest your elbows on the handlebars while holding the bars at the front , like they use in the tdf time trials. Different from standard drop handlebars. And does anyone have any experience of using this style handlebars , are they any good.


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## Theseus (18 Aug 2011)

Tri Bars

You should be able to get them from any cycle shop, either in person or on the internet.

Be careful when descending winding roads at speed as you have to change back to the drops to brake.

http://www.journeyman.cc/dogfood/story/article_30.html


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## SimonC (18 Aug 2011)

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/aero-handlebars/

amongst many other retailers.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Touche said:


> Tri Bars
> 
> You should be able to get them from any cycle shop, either in person or on the internet.
> 
> ...



What an amazing story.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Touche said:


> Tri Bars
> 
> You should be able to get them from any cycle shop, either in person or on the internet.
> 
> ...



Thanks for info. Actually i was contemplating using them alongside standard flat handlebars, the intention to provide an alternative position to the standard hands on flats position and hopefully some back releif. I sometimes, after 50 + miles, use this position with just normal flat handlebars where the road permits but can see that it is not a good idea as ones control is severely comprimised, hence the additional bars question.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks for info. Actually i was contemplating using them alongside standard flat handlebars, the intention to provide an alternative position to the standard hands on flats position and hopefully some back releif. I sometimes, after 50 + miles, use this position with just normal flat handlebars where the road permits but can see that it is not a good idea as ones control is severely comprimised, hence the additional bars question.



The advice is still the same you need to adjust body position to reach brakes. The other option are trekking bars such as these. I used them for a good while and they are very versatile indeed


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

SimonC said:


> http://www.wiggle.co...ero-handlebars/
> 
> amongst many other retailers.


Thanks for the link.
The forward facing bars with the elbow pads is just the kind of thing im thinking of.
I guess it woudnt be the hardest thing in the word to fabricate something oneself out of some metal pipe but then the £20 for the easton aeroforce alloy extensions is pretty good.


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

They are called clip-on tri bars or clip-on aero bars. 

There are several things you might want to consider before buying some though.

1) They are designed to fit normal road bars and over-size road bars. Your flat bar may have a different diameter (you can get round this with shims but you would have to make/source these seperatelly)
2) The reason TT and Tri users use this possition is for a more aerodynamic possition, these bars arent the only difference between their bikes and normal road bikes, the whole geometry is different, they have steeper seat tubes, shorter top tubes and the forks have more rake (to maintain stability with weight shifted forward). When fitting these bars to a road bike without modification, typically they will close your hip angle and drop your power output and de-stabilise the bike to some degree making it twitchy. So you will need to try to find a bar that maintains your hip angle, something more like audaxers use rather than triathletes and time triallists. Or you can modify your bike fit by lowering your bars and pushing saddle forward and up. But this will compromise your normal riding possition. Also if you plant to ride in traffic on them, think again, they are made for going in straight lines at high speed, not weaving about in traffic.


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks for the link.
> The forward facing bars with the elbow pads is just the kind of thing im thinking of.
> I guess it woudnt be the hardest thing in the word to fabricate something oneself out of some metal pipe but then the £20 for the easton aeroforce alloy extensions is pretty good.



That easton is just the extension, you need the clamp and elbow pad.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The advice is still the same you need to adjust body position to reach brakes. The other option are trekking bars such as these. I used them for a good while and they are very versatile indeed



Thanks . Braking isnt an issue . Its for long straight lines, for shifting position where where just changing position in itself offers some releif but changing position into a more prone , lying down supported restful position.
Do you have a picture of this kind of bar in situ ?


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks . Braking isnt an issue . Its for long straight lines, for shifting position where where just changing position in itself offers some releif but changing position into a more prone , lying down supported restful position.
> Do you have a picture of this kind of bar in situ ?


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> They are called clip-on tri bars or clip-on aero bars.
> 
> There are several things you might want to consider before buying some though.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the considerations.
My primary consideration is comfort on long distances , not really speed. My legs and lungs click into auto pilot ok but i am trouybled by upper body aches.


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks for the considerations.
> My primary consideration is comfort on long distances , not really speed. My legs and lungs click into auto pilot ok but i am trouybled by upper body aches.



Yes but my point is, if you go and clip them onto a normal road bar setup, you will be bent excessivelly at the waist and your will suffer discomfort and loss of power so it will fel harder to pedal. You need to be careful about which set you buy and how you set your bike up to suit them. Notice a TT'ist or triathletes possition is almost identical to a normal road possition but rotated forward at the hip. This is acheived by a large change in bike geometry. You will want a fairly tall touring/audax type set of clip ons, something like the Profile Century bar, rather than the TT/Tri setups.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


>


Thanks.
The way its set up there it makes it look like it effectively shortens the distance to the handlebars. Presumably you could set it up with the bar flipped over with all the controls on the main length of tube and the 2 leading extensions pointing forwards. Can you rest on your elbows with this setup ?


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks.
> The way its set up there it makes it look like it effectively shortens the distance to the handlebars. Presumably you could set it up with the bar flipped over with all the controls on the main length of tube and the 2 leading extensions pointing forwards. Can you rest on your elbows with this setup ?



This was on my first bike and it is no longer in use. I flipped the bars back and forth on a number of occasions. I was able to rest my forearms on the bars with that setup.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> Yes but my point is, if you go and clip them onto a normal road bar setup, you will be bent excessivelly at the waist and your will suffer discomfort and loss of power so it will fel harder to pedal. You need to be careful about which set you buy and how you set your bike up to suit them. Notice a TT'ist or triathletes possition is almost identical to a normal road possition but rotated forward at the hip. This is acheived by a large change in bike geometry. You will want a fairly tall touring/audax type set of clip ons, something like the Profile Century bar, rather than the TT/Tri setups.


Yes i see that because the body is leant forward it will make the hip angle more acute. Isnt the same true if you use drop bars . How can you tell if your hip angle is correct in any setup ?


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Yes i see that because the body is leant forward it will make the hip angle more acute. Isnt the same true if you use drop bars . How can you tell if your hip angle is correct in any setup ?



The tri bars are much longer than the reach to the drops.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> This was on my first bike and it is no longer in use. I flipped the bars back and forth on a number of occasions. I was able to rest my forearms on the bars with that setup.



Thanks. Food for thought.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks. Food for thought.


Pleasure. They are not for everyone but they served their purpose. I still have the bars as I may use them again on another project.


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## Matthew_T (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> What an amazing story.



+ 1


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Yes i see that because the body is leant forward it will make the hip angle more acute. Isnt the same true if you use drop bars . How can you tell if your hip angle is correct in any setup ?



A road bike is built to be used with drop bars, thus the geometry accomodates riding this way, by putting your elbows on the handlebars you are leaning much further forward and the hip angle is closed. If you were this far forward while using drop bars, it would only be during an all out sprint or climbing a hill, hence you would be out of the saddle and leaned forward which opens up the hip angle. Tri bars are made to be used when seated so to open up the hip angle a tri bike or modified road bike would have the saddle pushed forward over the bottom bracket and raised a bit to account for it. The front end might also be lowered and a longer or shorter stem used to adjust possition. This makes tri possition comfy, aero and powerrful but makes normal riding possitions uncomfortable.

There are many guides for tri possition, general rule is, side on photo, line from ankle to hip, hip to shoulder and shoulder to elbow. All lines should be roughtly 90 degree's to each other.


Like i said if you get touring/audax clip-on's they are less low profile and aggressive and dont require much if any adjustment to bike. Vorsprung on here uses them I think.


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## lejogger (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> What an amazing story.



+1


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> A road bike is built to be used with drop bars, thus the geometry accomodates riding this way, by putting your elbows on the handlebars you are leaning much further forward and the hip angle is closed. If you were this far forward while using drop bars, it would only be during an all out sprint or climbing a hill, hence you would be out of the saddle and leaned forward which opens up the hip angle. Tri bars are made to be used when seated so to open up the hip angle a tri bike or modified road bike would have the saddle pushed forward over the bottom bracket and raised a bit to account for it. The front end might also be lowered and a longer or shorter stem used to adjust possition. This makes tri possition comfy, aero and powerrful but makes normal riding possitions uncomfortable.
> 
> There are many guides for tri possition, general rule is, side on photo, line from ankle to hip, hip to shoulder and shoulder to elbow. All lines should be roughtly 90 degree's to each other.
> 
> ...


Thats very informative and well explained - thanks.
The way you explain it seems like an either or choice , one or the other., tri or normal , where normal encompasses flat and drop bar stance. And i can see the reasoning behind this.
I guess i am looking to incorperate if as a temporary releif relax mode to offset the pain of long distance one position riding.
I feel i have a better knowledge and appreciation of the considerations involved now - thanks to everyone whos offered advice.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> What an amazing story.



+1


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thats very informative and well explained - thanks.
> The way you explain it seems like an either or choice , one or the other., tri or normal , where normal encompasses flat and drop bar stance. And i can see the reasoning behind this.
> I guess i am looking to incorperate if as a temporary releif relax mode to offset the pain of long distance one position riding.
> I feel i have a better knowledge and appreciation of the considerations involved now - thanks to everyone whos offered advice.



You can get what you want with bars like the Profile Century bar and equivalent, it comes down to careful choice of bars. You want to avoid tri bars like the the Profile T2+ which are designed to get you low and aero and are more aggressive.

You could also look at draft legal mini tri bars, these are designed for use on normal road bikes in draft legal triathlons where the riders are allowed to ride in a bunch. Normally drafting is illegal and riders cannot group together, hence the special bikes to gain an aero advantage when riding solo rather than relying on a drafting advantage in a pack.


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## lejogger (18 Aug 2011)

Just to throw a different perspective in here... when I first started riding I used a small old MTB with slick tyres, and I added Profile Aero Bars to the flat bars.

I used this bike on End to End so that I had some different positions to ride in. Flats are restricting and I found I got numbness in my hands from having them in the same position hour after hour. With the aero bars I found I was able to rest my hands on the forearm pads as well as dropping into the lower aero position. 

As long as you get yourself into an efficient position for when you're on the aero bars, the effect while on the flats is only really a slightly more upright position. 

I agree with the comments quoting geometry, but everyone is built differently, and the chances of your road bike being set up for 100% efficiency and effectiveness are fairly remote even with a professional fitting. For the sake of £20-£30 it may be an experiment worth trying in order to find a comfortable position. You may find that you have a weaker pedal stroke initially, but you should build up the muscles and be efficient fairly quickly. Remember that the geometry of a TT position is designed to get the maximum speed and efficiency whilst pedalling flat out over a specific course, when the OP is not actually after this. They just want to be able to alter from a repetitive position to avoid cramping and injuries and the aero bars could help with this like they helped me.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> You can get what you want with bars like the Profile Century bar and equivalent, it comes down to careful choice of bars. You want to avoid tri bars like the the Profile T2+ which are designed to get you low and aero and are more aggressive.
> 
> You could also look at draft legal mini tri bars, these are designed for use on normal road bikes in draft legal triathlons where the riders are allowed to ride in a bunch. Normally drafting is illegal and riders cannot group together, hence the special bikes to gain an aero advantage when riding solo rather than relying on a drafting advantage in a pack.


Yes the profile aero does look the right kind of thing with its upward pointing hand grips. It looks similar to what the tdf riders use on time trials. The only reservation i would have about buying an all in one unit is that the potential for adjustment is limited , specifically the distance from elbow rests to hand grips.


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## Rob3rt (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Yes the profile aero does look the right kind of thing with its upward pointing hand grips. It looks similar to what the tdf riders use on time trials. The only reservation i would have about buying an all in one unit is that the potential for adjustment is limited , specifically the distance from elbow rests to hand grips.



I believe the whole thing should slide back and forward in the clamp hence moving the hand grip area closer to or further away from the elbow pads? Best to double check though.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

lejogger said:


> Just to throw a different perspective in here... when I first started riding I used a small old MTB with slick tyres, and I added Profile Aero Bars to the flat bars.
> 
> I used this bike on End to End so that I had some different positions to ride in. Flats are restricting and I found I got numbness in my hands from having them in the same position hour after hour. With the aero bars I found I was able to rest my hands on the forearm pads as well as dropping into the lower aero position.
> 
> ...



Yes similar to me. Although the price has gone up since you bought yours , theyre now £50 to £60.
Thanks for the advice.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> I believe the whole thing should slide back and forward in the clamp hence moving the hand grip area closer to or further away from the elbow pads? Best to double check though.



Roger that.


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## lejogger (18 Aug 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Yes similar to me. Although the price has gone up since you bought yours , theyre now £50 to £60.
> Thanks for the advice.




I got the profile century bars for £30 from Cycle Surgery about 3 years ago. You can get them for around £40 now from a number of places online. 

Hope it works out if you go for it.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (18 Aug 2011)

lejogger said:


> I got the profile century bars for £30 from Cycle Surgery about 3 years ago. You can get them for around £40 now from a number of places online.
> 
> Hope it works out if you go for it.



Had a quick look on ebay and theres 6 on there beginning with one ending tomorrow currently £5 plus £5 postage so i will keep an eye on it. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270799352341
Thanks to you guys a vague idea has turned into a definite well informed plan of action.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (25 Aug 2011)

Won an aero profile bar on ebay and got it in post. Problem mounting the bar because it contacts with the 2 gear changers. The brake assemblies seem to be fixed position on the handlebars preventing shifting the brakes outwards which would allow shifting the gear changers outwards also. Im contemplating displacing the brake assemblies from there fixed positions but there dosnt seem to be any visible tightener so i thought id post incase anyone can offer any advice before i start hacking at my bike.


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## cyberknight (25 Aug 2011)

Just my tuppence but surely getting more aero on tri bars would aggravate your back ? as your bike is liable to have a longer top tube and stem than a bike set to use tri bars.
If you are getting back ache i would suggest looking at your bike set up first as this could be the cause of a lot of your problems, i used to get back ache until i got my set up right and now i could ride all day .

This was helpful for me

http://www.caree.org/bike101bikefit.htm


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (26 Aug 2011)

cyberknight said:


> Just my tuppence but surely getting more aero on tri bars would aggravate your back ? as your bike is liable to have a longer top tube and stem than a bike set to use tri bars.
> If you are getting back ache i would suggest looking at your bike set up first as this could be the cause of a lot of your problems, i used to get back ache until i got my set up right and now i could ride all day .
> 
> This was helpful for me
> ...



Hi 
I have bookmarked the page and will study it at the weekend.
I can see your reasoning that you shoudnt get back pain at all if your bike is set up correctly.
Thanks very much for advise.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (28 Aug 2011)

Fitted the aero bars but have had to put the gear changers on the aero bars so not ideal.




Went out on it briefly yesterday and seems good but really have to wait till a long run to evaluate its benefits.
I am also re-evaluating my riding position as cyberknight has suggested.


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## fossyant (28 Aug 2011)

Butterfly bars are fugly. I used mavic clip on tri bars with a road bike for years. If set up correctly you won't alter your position much. I'd recommend bars that can be adjusted.


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## Angelfishsolo (28 Aug 2011)

Can you not solve the problem by fitting a longer bar?


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (10 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Can you not solve the problem by fitting a longer bar?



Thanks for the suggestion but i didnt want to go to those extremes.
Anyway after using it a bit i am quite pleased with it. Ive also raised my seat about an inch and the overall effect is less of an upright position and more of a wieght on arms position with occasional weight on elbows. Ive not been on any really long rides yet to tell 100% but early results seem to indicate reduced back pain problem afaict.


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## Angelfishsolo (10 Sep 2011)

Emmanuel Obikwelu said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but i didnt want to go to those extremes.
> Anyway after using it a bit i am quite pleased with it. Ive also raised my seat about an inch and the overall effect is less of an upright position and more of a wieght on arms position with occasional weight on elbows. Ive not been on any really long rides yet to tell 100% but early results seem to indicate reduced back pain problem afaict.



Good' although I wouldn't call fitting a longer bar extreme


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## cyberknight (10 Sep 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> I find the earlier the better, wake up at 6, do 30/40 miles and get back before 9, still have the whole day ahead. I can't motivate myself in afternoons and I always find something else to do. Anything but cycling!



I hope it all works out for you


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