# Are these close passes ?



## kingrollo (30 Mar 2018)

VAN CLOSE PASS



__ kingrollo
__ 30 Mar 2018


















4x4 ME



__ kingrollo
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4x4 OTHER CYCLISTS



__ kingrollo
__ 30 Mar 2018






And who do I report them to (west midlands area)

The 3rd one isn't very clear - but the same 4X4 that got very close to me - then gets very close to 2 more cyclists in front - the cyclists aren't known to me.


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## Slick (30 Mar 2018)

Definitely, drivers are tadgers.


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## kingrollo (30 Mar 2018)

how do i report them ? ...just send a letter with screen prints to the police ?


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## ianrauk (30 Mar 2018)

If YOU think they are close...then report them.


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## Slick (30 Mar 2018)

kingrollo said:


> how do i report them ? ...just send a letter with screen prints to the police ?


Check out west Midlands police website, they may have a facility on there to send them footage.


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## NorthernDave (30 Mar 2018)

Yes, definitely - I'd also have a look for a website for the company named on that van and considering letting them know as well.


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## furball (31 Mar 2018)

With commercial vehicles I always go straight to the company. I had one instance where the company told me that none of their vehicles were on the particular stretch of road but they would check up. They came back to me and told me the driver had been sacked because he hadn't been where he should have been.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2018)

West Mids Police. The UKs second largest force in terms of staff numbers so one would hope their website would have a reporting function.

If you were doing 10mph or more, they're committing an offence by overtaking on a solid white line.


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## Slick (31 Mar 2018)

furball said:


> With commercial vehicles I always go straight to the company. I had one instance where the company told me that none of their vehicles were on the particular stretch of road but they would check up. They came back to me and told me the driver had been sacked because he hadn't been where he should have been.


For me that's the problem. If they are concerned about thing like that they should pay to track their vehicles and inform the driver. The point of these clips should be education not to facilitate drivers losing their job for an unrelated matter. I did send a clip of a close pass to a company whose trucks were more interested in maintaining the convoy than my safety. I added that next time a copy would go to the traffic commissioner and I received an apology and I've never had an issue since.


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## kingrollo (31 Mar 2018)

I think the commercial vehicle is a one man band. 
I am sure I read recently that only 2 police forces in england have video uploading facilities (and west mids isn't one of them). So I am going to have to do it long hand ! - I am going to print out the stills - put the dvd 5 min clips on Dvd and send it recorded delivery to west mids police - and would like to know what action they take (I wan't a warning for the drivers at least) - If they don't do that I will go to the local press.


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## Bianchi boy (31 Mar 2018)

In North Wales we have recently introduced the " Operation Snap " Facility which provides the facility to upload video footage too the Local police website.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2018)

West Midlands Police initiated the close pass initiative. You could ask them on Twitter but do not post your footage there.


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## mjr (9 Apr 2018)

kingrollo said:


> I am sure I read recently that only 2 police forces in england have video uploading facilities (and west mids isn't one of them).


Whatever you read is wrong. First three search results for "police dashboard camera report": https://www.norfolk.police.uk/contact-us/report-something/dashboard-camera-report-form https://www.suffolk.police.uk/contact-us/report-something/dashboard-camera-report-form (same system, different force), https://www.cheshire.police.uk/advice-and-support/roads-and-vehicle-safety/submit-dashcam-footage

I've just captured two incidents on handlebar camera this weekend (years of almost nothing while using a camera, then two in two days!) and reported them to Norfolk Constabulary's equivalent of Operation Snap. There was a fairly swift reply to ask for the footage and statements, but it took a bit over 3 hours to upload 5 minutes video.

Then today, with both my main card and my spare being stored as evidence, I suffered a less common left hook while pulling out of a T-junction (no collision mainly because I didn't trust the motorist not indicating), plus I witnessed a speedy pavement motorist from about 5m away, but I had no camera running because I'd no compatible cards left! I've caught pavement motorists on camera before, but not from close enough to get a clear number plate image - I would have reported that one because I think pavement motoring is a huge problem here, with loads of tyre tracks along the pavements. If you've got a camera, get three cards - bad luck comes in threes!

All this after it being maybe 8 years of intermittent camera use since the last incident I reported... but four in three days!


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## mjr (9 Apr 2018)

I took a look at https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/ and I can't tell whether they take video uploads or not. Is it a confusing mess of a website or is it me?


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## kingrollo (10 Apr 2018)

I sent the lot of by post today. Videos on DVD, Still Images, Reg plates time and location. Will let you all know what the response is.


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## Drago (10 Apr 2018)

Its getting tight time wise. By the time the discs are received, allocated and viewed they'll have missed to window to issue an NIP. Best they'll get is a warning letter, if that.

I'll stick a tenner on nothing comes of it now.


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## mjr (10 Apr 2018)

Drago said:


> Its getting tight time wise. By the time the discs are received, allocated and viewed they'll have missed to window to issue an NIP. Best they'll get is a warning letter, if that.
> 
> I'll stick a tenner on nothing comes of it now.


Notice of Intended Prosecution has to come within 14 days of the offence, right? Is that what would be called in the US a statute of limitations of 2 weeks for motoring? Are NIPs only for traffic or are there other fields where the police basically are prevented from pursuing offences older than 2 weeks?

Norfolk Constabulary ask for video upload within 72 hours of it, I think, so they stand reasonable chance of hitting the NIP deadline.


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Apr 2018)

[QUOTE 5209549, member: 9609"]where did this nonsense come from? When and what was the reasoning behind the decision to set motoring crime into some other parallel universe where the police are in a race against the clock, with any other type of crime they have the rest of your life to catch up with you.[/QUOTE]


I believe it's to cover offences (not involving a collision) where the driver may not remember being on a certain road on a certain date however long ago. It's imagined that, there being nothing out of the ordinary to cause the driver to register the offence, it's not fair to come after him more than 14 days after the event.

If such a period is needed, I think 14 days is way too short.


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## mjr (10 Apr 2018)

[QUOTE 5209549, member: 9609"]where did this nonsense come from? When and what was the reasoning behind the decision to set motoring crime into some other parallel universe where the police are in a race against the clock, with any other type of crime they have the rest of your life to catch up with you.[/QUOTE]
I think it came from a requirement to give the poor downtrodden noble motorist the opportunity to recall the details of the incident before they had driven too much further, from a time when few motorists drove daily. I don't know when it originally started but here's the Lords debating the 21-day NIP requirement in 1930: https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1930/jan/23/road-traffic-bill-hl#column_198

I think it was set at 21 days when there were far more police per motorist and bizarrely it has since been shortened to 14 days instead of lengthened. I feel it needs to be updated more than the cycling offences from the 1800s.


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## kingrollo (10 Apr 2018)

To be honest I wasn't expecting prosecutions - I will be happy if they get a warning letter - also if I learn where and when to send the stuff then it will be quicker this time ......


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## Ianboydsnr (10 Apr 2018)

Drago said:


> West Mids Police. The UKs second largest force in terms of staff numbers so one would hope their website would have a reporting function.
> 
> If you were doing 10mph or more, they're committing an offence by overtaking on a solid white line.



I think it’s only an offence to cross the white line, overtaking without crossing the line is not an offence, but that’s not to say a different offence isn’t committed, dangerous driving, or driving without due care


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## mjr (10 Apr 2018)

User3094 said:


> 129


OK, where is the contradiction or were you posting in support?


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## Ianboydsnr (10 Apr 2018)

User3094 said:


> 129



Yes so I was correct, it’s not a no overtaking line, it’s a no crossing the line, unless it meets the allowable exemptions.


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## Ianboydsnr (10 Apr 2018)

User46386 said:


> Yes they look close.
> To me you look a bit close to the curb, in my experience if you ride further out it forces them to slow down.Try it and see what you think.



That’s what I do, it stops the chancers who would skim past you at speed and once they slow down, you can move left and they can be on their way.


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## Roadhump (10 Apr 2018)

They do look close. I ride a good metre at least from the kerb so that drivers from the rear have to think about getting past me and move out, rather than thinking they can do so by continuing in a straight line and pushing me to the left. I find I don't get many close passes, but occasionally some idiot still forgets that the cyclist is actually wider then their tyres and still ties to squeeze past with too little room to spare, and occasionally some idiot honks their horn as if you should be in the gutter.

I wonder how many cyclists use a camera? I have sometimes thought about getting one, but have found other things to spend the money on. Any recommendations for good ones, or ones to avoid?


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## mjr (10 Apr 2018)

Roadhump said:


> I wonder how many cyclists use a camera? I have sometimes thought about getting one, but have found other things to spend the money on. Any recommendations for good ones, or ones to avoid?


Please see other threads like https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/bar-mounted-camera-any-suggestions.193332/ for camera buying tips. I think this one should be about reporting what they record.

I don't think that many cyclists use a camera (maybe more since Aldi had one in their special offers recently) and even fewer actually report footage to the police. The warnings the police send as you report are pretty scary - basically, you need to be sure you committed no offences, else at best they'll decide it's not in the public interest to pursue anyone and at worst they may ticket you instead.


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## Dan B (12 Apr 2018)

kingrollo said:


> VAN CLOSE PASS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had something the other day that looked quite similar (hard to tell without using the same camera lens of course) but in London. Uploaded video to YouTube (unlisted), filled in the online form at Roadsafe, expected to hear nothing more. Yesterday got an email saying they'd sent out a NIP. Which is nice and even if it goes nowhere at least it may make the driver think next time before deciding he can overtake cyclists without actually steering 

It probably helps that it was in a 20 zone and the video shows the 20 warning sign lighting up. I've not had much success with close pass videos previously


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## kingrollo (12 Apr 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> That’s what I do, it stops the chancers who would skim past you at speed and once they slow down, you can move left and they can be on their way.



Yes that is my usually riding style - thing is after (during) a close pass, my instinct is to move in - so you are gradually forced more and more left.


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## kingrollo (12 Apr 2018)

Roadhump said:


> They do look close. I ride a good metre at least from the kerb so that drivers from the rear have to think about getting past me and move out, rather than thinking they can do so by continuing in a straight line and pushing me to the left. I find I don't get many close passes, but occasionally some idiot still forgets that the cyclist is actually wider then their tyres and still ties to squeeze past with too little room to spare, and occasionally some idiot honks their horn as if you should be in the gutter.
> 
> I* wonder how many cyclists use a camera? *I have sometimes thought about getting one, but have found other things to spend the money on. Any recommendations for good ones, or ones to avoid?



Depends what you want to use it for :-

if you want it to record longer rides and don't want the hassle of the changing the battery - then the fly 12 is a serious contender with its 10 hours battery life.

If you want top notch quality then the go-pro range is the way to go - but battery life can be as low as 90 minutes

Garmin Virb - has slightly longer battery life around 3 hours I think.

I have the fly12 and I tend to do longer rides - I have seen it as low as £130 - average price is around £160 - good thing is that brackets/SD Card are included in the box - many of the others these aren't. It has its shortcomings but once you get to know it - it is pretty good.

Then there are the unbranded budget options, which some people get on absolutely fine with, others not so much.


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## Roadhump (12 Apr 2018)

kingrollo said:


> Depends what you want to use it for :-
> 
> if you want it to record longer rides and don't want the hassle of the changing the battery - then the fly 12 is a serious contender with its 10 hours battery life.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I have thought about getting one after occasional incidents with idiot motorists. The latest one was a couple of weeks ago when crossing a dual carriageway via a roundabout. A car approaching from the left, appeared to be slowing down to give way to me, but then drove out in front of me. If I had been 12 inches further on, I would have hit it. It was an outrageous piece of dangerous, negligent driving. I was incandescent and for the next 20 miles as I rode home I was thinking about a camera so I could report such incidents with evidence in future.

I suppose though, that unless you have one with battery life long enough to leave on for the whole duration of your ride, it could be a matter of chance as to whether you actually capture the incident. In addition, will the police always take on an investigation of such incidents, especially in these days of seemingly everlasting austerity and cuts?

There is of course, also the fun and interest angle of recording certain parts of your ride, which was my secondary, but much lower priority, consideration for getting a camera.


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## mjr (12 Apr 2018)

Roadhump said:


> Thanks for the info. I have thought about getting one after occasional incidents with idiot motorists. The latest one was a couple of weeks ago when crossing a dual carriageway via a roundabout. A car approaching from the left, appeared to be slowing down to give way to me, but then drove out in front of me. If I had been 12 inches further on, I would have hit it. It was an outrageous piece of dangerous, negligent driving. I was incandescent and for the next 20 miles as I rode home I was thinking about a camera so I could report such incidents with evidence in future.


You may find that a camera fails to capture the vehicle number plate in such situations, if it drives across you rather than taking your exit, depending on what avoiding action you have to take, what the daylight or street lighting is like and what the camera's sensor is like.



Roadhump said:


> I suppose though, that unless you have one with battery life long enough to leave on for the whole duration of your ride, it could be a matter of chance as to whether you actually capture the incident. In addition, will the police always take on an investigation of such incidents, especially in these days of seemingly everlasting austerity and cuts?


Incidents tend to happen more often around the same hotspots, in my experience, so when the battery is low, you can just switch the camera on for those points... but I've said it before and I'll say it again: get a camera which can record from USB power and you can run a wire from a bag for longer rides. I've even run a power lead from my pocket, but I did have to remember to unplug before dismounting!

The police won't always take on an investigation, but my experience so far is positive, with them investigating my first report while I fight with their upload site to send the second. In austerity terms, I suspect reviewing and acting on road user camera footage is cheaper than collecting it themselves.


Roadhump said:


> There is of course, also the fun and interest angle of recording certain parts of your ride, which was my secondary, but much lower priority, consideration for getting a camera.


They're much more use for that, yes.


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## kingrollo (12 Apr 2018)

The fly 12 scores for battery life. I was knocked off just before xmas on the most innocent of roads - so personally I don't think you can judge when somebody is driving on way - but looking another !
I think there was a shimano camera that you could set to record at certain speeds / locations automatically !
The sound recording on fly 12 is woeful - IMO it doesn't double up as an action camera the way a go pro does. IMO the thing with cameras is there is always some element of compromise - there isn't a long battery, action cam, with good sound, that records at 4k and loops recordings and easily attaches to a bike - you have to prioritise what you want the camera for.....


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## Dan B (12 Apr 2018)

mjr said:


> The police won't always take on an investigation, but my experience so far is positive, with them investigating my first report while I fight with their upload site to send the second.


Just to add another set of anecdata points here: my personal experience is that the police are happy to investigate where there is clear evidence that a law has been broken (car driving in pedestrian area, through no-entry sign or red traffic signal) but have tended to NFA anything which might involve personal opinon or judgement. Which is why I was quite surprised to see they're sending a NIP for last weeks' close overtake


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## mjr (12 Apr 2018)

kingrollo said:


> The sound recording on fly 12 is woeful - IMO it doesn't double up as an action camera the way a go pro does. IMO the thing with cameras is there is always some element of compromise - there isn't a long battery, action cam, with good sound, that records at 4k and loops recordings and easily attaches to a bike - you have to prioritise what you want the camera for.....


For reporting incidents to the police, sound recording may actually be a drawback as the police told me to "NOT supply footage that contains audio as we may need to pass it to the other driver if contested. If you submit your footage with audio, any personal conversations would be heard by the other driver."

If the camera attaches to the bike, most of the audio will probably be road noise and brake or drivetrain noises while moving anyway, in my experience with five cameras so far.


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## classic33 (12 Apr 2018)

Give the vehicle registration as seen, using the phonetic alphabet, to back up the pictures caught on camera.


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## davidphilips (13 Apr 2018)

TBH I am guilty of not using a camera but in my view the more cyclists that report close passes along with cctv footage then the safer roads will be for us all, so my view is report asap even if driver is only given a talking to then he and others that he tells will be more careful.


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## kingrollo (25 Apr 2018)

3 weeks on from sending my letter to west midlands police - not even an acknowledgement.
I recorded another close pass yesterday and was going to send that off - but noticed the fly12 hadn't flipped onto BST so the time is wrong - any point sending ?


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## mjr (26 Apr 2018)

I'd try to find out what happened to the first one first. If they've not given notice to the defendant within two weeks, it's now moot.

Wrong timestamp doesn't disqualify it, as long as you can explain and corroborate the correct time (GPS track?).


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## kingrollo (26 Apr 2018)

Got a phone call from west midlands police today. My footage was to late and is outside the area for west midlands - otherwise he the chap I spoke to said these were 100% prosecution cases. - Its a learning process at least I know what to do next time.
The good news is that very shortly west midlands police will be launching a web based portal whereby footage can be uploaded via the website.

Sending my most recent close pass of to west mercia police today.


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## glasgowcyclist (26 Apr 2018)

kingrollo said:


> 3 weeks on from sending my letter to west midlands police - not even an acknowledgement.
> I recorded another close pass yesterday and was going to send that off - but noticed the fly12 hadn't flipped onto BST so the time is wrong - any point sending ?



Not a problem, simply make them aware that your camera is set to GMT.


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## kingrollo (1 May 2018)

West Mericia police now investigating one of my close passes !


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## kingrollo (25 May 2018)

First success from west midland police based on my video evidence. Driver will either receive £100 fine & 3 pts - or attend a driver awareness course at a cost to the driver of £145. (if he has previous he gets the fine)


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## BADGER.BRAD (10 Jun 2018)

Just had an email back from West Midlands Police here is the jist of it.
Contact us (WMP) <contactus@west-midlands.pnn.police.uk>
To: me??? (email address)
10 Jun at 14:14

Good afternoon



Any details of any incidents can be emailed through to us on this email address and we will forward the incidents to the relevant team who will be able to deal with your email(s)


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## kingrollo (12 Jun 2018)

Here is the email address
cj_tpo_drivingstandards@west-midlands.pnn.police.uk

You can create a drop box account - and email the links to the address above. There is also a form you need to complete (available from that email address) 
The real killer is the timescales - they only have 14 days to issue a prosecution notice - so it needs to be with them within about 5 days at the outside.
If you want to PM me I have the contact details of the officer who seems to know the ropes on this.


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## dutchguylivingintheuk (14 Jun 2018)

Should get a cam too, had some lunatic in a fan yesterday steering towards me deliberately while i was passing on the inside(actually i could keep on driving while they where stuck in a jam. ) It seem as soon as some people get in a car they turn into cycle hating maniacs


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## mjr (14 Jun 2018)

dutchguylivingintheuk said:


> ... some lunatic in a fan yesterday steering towards me deliberately ...


Sorry to pick up on a typo but it made me imagine this was near you 





(source)


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## dutchguylivingintheuk (15 Jun 2018)

lol made me laugh stupid spelling mistake did'nt even notice it unil now


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