# route for an audax



## Euan Uzami (5 Jan 2009)

on an audax do they tell you the exact route or do they just give you 'clues' and you have to work it out. If so is it like a cryptic crossword...?

only ask 'cos i've heard rumours about it being the latter, and if so are you allowed to just follow people...?


----------



## Dave5N (5 Jan 2009)

Clear instructions, 'turn left at T junction' etc, with distances to each junction. Only abbreviated to make the route card a manageable size.


----------



## Landslide (5 Jan 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Clear instructions...



Although you invariably end up following people.
And they invariably turn round to you and say they're lost.


----------



## Euan Uzami (5 Jan 2009)

ok cheers. that's normal ones. but are there anythat are like cryptic clues?


----------



## yello (5 Jan 2009)

Not in my experience.

Some organisers route sheets can take a little deciphering sometimes but I don't think it's intentional!


----------



## Noodley (5 Jan 2009)

For me, "Turn R at T" is cryptic enough


----------



## Rhythm Thief (5 Jan 2009)

9.8 TL at TL (SP Stroud)
10.7 TR at O 
12.3 SO at X
14.7 TR at T (Bristol)

Cryptic enough for you? It's easy once you get the hang of it, and you can follow the route cards without stopping to read them every five minutes.


----------



## Dave5N (5 Jan 2009)

Noodley said:


> For me, "Turn R at T" is cryptic enough




Easy. Runt


----------



## Randochap (5 Jan 2009)

Here is part of the route sheet from last Thursday's "NewPop" (New Year's Populaire) route:

At km	Turn	onto ROUTE then Go km

19.0	(R)	HUNT (@ golf course) 1.6
20.6	(SO)	WELCH (at Dooley) 1.3
21.9	(L)	MARTINDALE (@ stop) 1.3
23.2	(R)	LOCHSIDE Dr. (first right)	1.2
24.4	(L)	ISLAND VIEW 0.2
24.6	(R)	HIGHWAY 17 (@ lights) 2.6
27.2	(R)	MT.NEWTON X (@ lights) 0.2
27.4	(L)	LOCHSIDE (@ 4-way stop)	4.3
31.7	(L)	McTAVISH 0.2
31.9	(SO)	Cross Hwy 17 (@ lights) 0.0
31.9	(SO)	McTAVISH 0.5
32.4	(SO)	Cross E. Saanich (@ 4-way stop)	0.0

*32.4	R	CONTROL #1 -- McTavish Rd. Store	
McTavish & E. Saanich	*

Spreadsheet formatting/spacing is gone here, but you get the idea. We don't try to "fool" anyone attempting to ride the kind of distances demanded in audax/randonneur cycling. Navigating country roads in the rain at 3am is challenge enough for most.

On edit: BTW, if you want to see what riding the roads on that cue sheet looks like, they're all in the video clip on this page.


----------



## gavintc (5 Jan 2009)

You will have picked up from the code, that the important element is knowing exactly how far you have travelled. It is therefore 'useful' to have made sure that your computer reads an accurate distance.


----------



## Randochap (5 Jan 2009)

gavintc said:


> You will have picked up from the code, that the important element is knowing exactly how far you have travelled. It is therefore 'useful' to have made sure that your computer reads an accurate distance.



Good tip, Gavintc. And the way to do this is by doing a "roll-out" measurement with tyres at preferred pressure, while you are on the bike.

Mark floor with pencil precisely at valve stem (I also mark tyre, below); roll forward one wheel revolution; mark floor; measure between marks. Repeat for accuracy. Get someone to help mark, while you assume normal on-bike duties.

The result (in cm) will be the number you program into your computer and will give very exacting results.

I like to have 2 computers (see here, or here). One (right) gives me a primary and secondary ride distance, the other (left) another ride distance, altitude gain and, of course, both have total odo.

Redundancy is your friend.


----------



## RedBike (5 Jan 2009)

I've decided there's a reason why audax riders have a map on the bars. I've tried two or three shorter audax rides and got lost every time. Everythings fine until you miss a turn. Then (if you're like me) you haven't got a clue where you are. 

You should get the route in advance. Sit down with a map and plot out the route. Take this map, with the route highlighted on it with you. 

This way if you miss a turn you can easily see how to get back on route without travelling miles out of your way!


----------



## Randochap (5 Jan 2009)

RedBike said:


> I've decided there's a reason why audax riders have a map on the bars.



In a route sheet holder.


----------



## vernon (5 Jan 2009)

Euan Uzami said:


> on an audax do they tell you the exact route or do they just give you 'clues' and you have to work it out. If so is it like a cryptic crossword...?
> 
> only ask 'cos i've heard rumours about it being the latter, and if so are you allowed to just follow people...?



The quality of route sheets varies.

Some are very explicit and easy to follow. Some are ambiguous some combine text and graphics. A general convention that permeates all routesheets is that places to be cycled through are typed in CAPITAL letters and plces to be cycled towards are typed in lower case apart from the first letter e.g. 

45.7km TL at T Loughborough
45.7km TL at T LOUGHBOUROUGH

have very different outcomes

As you get the routesheet in advance of the ride if you pre-book, you can plot the route on a map or go out and recce the route on your bike. That will give you a feel for what is ahead of you.


----------



## Soltydog (5 Jan 2009)

Only ever done one & i couldn't fathom the route card. My advice is tag along with someone who knows the route, or can read the route card


----------



## ColinJ (5 Jan 2009)

Just do what I do - plot the route using Memory Map (or similar mapping software) and upload it to a bar-mounted GPS unit .


----------



## Dave5N (5 Jan 2009)

Just do what I do and follow the people with beards.


----------



## Randochap (5 Jan 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Just do what I do and follow the people with beards.



Or follow the GPS heads until their batteries run out or GPS glitch sends them on a wild goose chase. Then you can offer to lead them back on course with your map and cue sheet ... for a price


----------



## ColinJ (5 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> Or follow the GPS heads until their batteries run out or GPS glitch sends them on a wild goose chase. Then you can offer to lead them back on course with your map and cue sheet ... for a price


I always use freshly charged batteries, and I can get over 24 hours out of one set.

I've had just one glitch in about 4,000 km of GPS-assisted riding. That was when I was in a very narrow valley with a steep hill in and a steep hill out so the GPS could probably only 'see' 1 or 2 satellites rather than the 3 or 4 it needed.

Having said that - I always carry a map and cue sheet too, just in case !

Beard-following doesn't seem to work because the beard-owners always seem to get lost.


----------



## ian_oli (6 Jan 2009)

You can get most as Word/Excel files. Before I became a slave to my GPS, If I did'n't like the format I reformatted them to a font size and folded view layout I like. I hoped not to cut out bits of the route by mistake.

The risk about following men with beards is sometimes there are none. It's odd you can ride a fair bit of the route with lots of people and then get a big chunk where you see no one till you stop and then lots come by. During those stretches you need teh routesheet.


----------



## Euan Uzami (6 Jan 2009)

i've got a nice phone holder on the bars of my fixed which holds my GPS phone.
Wont' fit on my geared bike though as its handlebars are too fat!

I've got a beard, but never done an audax before - so presumably i'll be blindly followed? i'll be like the pied piper...


----------



## Nuncio (6 Jan 2009)

Euan Uzami said:


> on an audax do they tell you the exact route or do they just give you 'clues' and you have to work it out. If so is it like a cryptic crossword...?
> 
> only ask 'cos i've heard rumours about it being the latter, and if so are you allowed to just follow people...?



This may relate to 'information' controls. Not crossword clues but questions on the brevet card issued at the start of the ride which you have to answer to prove you have completed the distance. They allow the organizer to ensure the whole route is done, without the inconvenience of having to provide manned or cafe controls every 30km or so. As the route between controls is optional (with very rare exceptions) - the route itself between the controls can be deemed advisory or recommended - it allows the organizer to specify a route like:

Cafe A / pleasant lanes to info control B / pleasant lanes to cafe C [total distance 60km]

rather than

Cafe A / trunk road to Cafe C. [total distance 45km]

The info questions are usually straightforward eg At VILLAGE A, distance on signpost at X roads to village B'; name of Pub on Left etc. Complicated or ambiguous questions are frowned upon.

And in answer to the second question: you are allowed to follow people, so long as they are also taking part on the ride. Technically, pacing by non-entrants is not allowed, though I don't know a) if it has ever happened,  if it has happened that it has been spotted, or c) if a) and  apply, that the rider has had to hand over his brevet card for ceremonial destruction. As to how far you follow without 'taking a turn': that's up to you and your conscience.


----------



## bonj2 (6 Jan 2009)

do you always know where the 'manned controls' are going to be? or are they are at random points to avoid anyone taking a shortcut/driving?


----------



## Dave5N (7 Jan 2009)

ian_oli said:


> *The risk about following men with beards is sometimes there are none.*



Don't be ridiculous. It's an Audax.


----------



## Randochap (7 Jan 2009)

Ben_3 said:


> do you always know where the 'manned controls' are going to be? or are they are at random points to avoid anyone taking a shortcut/driving?



Controls aren't "random," they are set on the control card (and route sheet) which must be signed at the said control. Controls are not necessarily "manned" by audax "officials." Controls are often simply establishments such as convenience stores, or pubs. We encourage riders to buy something at the establishment in exchange for their curtesy of signing cards. At least that's the way we do it here.

"Secret" controls are another thing. We spring those on riders any time and anywhere. The threat of a secret control keeps most people honest. Seriously though, if someone wants to cheat. That's pretty pathetic, no? The only one they're cheating is themselves.

See this page for explanation of rando rules/protocols.


----------



## Nuncio (7 Jan 2009)

Secret controls were where the organizer or friend stood by the side of the road at an unannounced place on the route, with some sort of ‘Audax Control’ sign, and stopped passing riders to stamp their cards. As with other controls, this ensured that riders rode the complete distance and the complete route.

In the UK secret controls have virtually died out since the rule changes which resulted in ‘free’ routes between controls. An organizer still has the option to use them, but has to specify on which leg it is to be used, and even then is not obliged to use them. In effect this means that the specified leg is not a ‘free’ route.

I think I have only been on one Audax where a secret control was threatened. The Bryan Chapman Memorial 600 route includes a Dolgellau/Menai Bridge/Dolgellau stretch with no additional controls. The route ‘up’ is via Pen-yPas, the route back, a fair bit flatter. The distances were not much different, I don’t think. Without the threat of a secret control riders could have taken the easier route up and the easier route back. The logistics for the organizer to have an actual secret control on the way up (ie someone standing by some Snowdonia road from about 4pm to 2am) suggested that this was an idle threat. But who would want to risk it?

Organizers don’t generally want you to get lost. It should not be an exercise in navigation. Limitations of space on route sheets mean that certain conventions are used, which can take some getting used to.


----------



## bonj2 (7 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> Controls aren't "random," they are set on the control card (and route sheet) which must be signed at the said control. Controls are not necessarily "manned" by audax "officials." Controls are often simply establishments such as convenience stores, or pubs. We encourage riders to buy something at the establishment in exchange for their curtesy of signing cards. At least that's the way we do it here.
> 
> "Secret" controls are another thing. We spring those on riders any time and anywhere. The threat of a secret control keeps most people honest. Seriously though, if someone wants to cheat. That's pretty pathetic, no? The only one they're cheating is themselves.
> 
> See this page for explanation of rando rules/protocols.


i was envisaging it as a desk at the side of the road.


----------



## yello (7 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> Seriously though, if someone wants to cheat. That's pretty pathetic, no? The only one they're cheating is themselves



Abso-bloody-lutely! Really, who else actually gives a rat's arse if you do the course or not anyway? 

I voiced this opinion once and was told 'ah yes, but PBP year is different'. I still didn't really see it. But all clubs attract the anal so I guess it's to be expected!


----------



## Randochap (7 Jan 2009)

yello said:


> Abso-bloody-lutely! Really, who else actually gives a rat's arse if you do the course or not anyway?
> 
> I voiced this opinion once and was told 'ah yes, but PBP year is different'. I still didn't really see it. But all clubs attract the anal so I guess it's to be expected!



Look at it this way; if you came all the way from France to Canada (as I did the opposite in '07, for PBP), to ride, say, the VanIsle 1200 and I caught you cutting the route, you've wasted all that time and money. The least I'm going to do is give you a time penalty and instruct you to ride back to where you "lost" the route. 

Incedentally, the Vanisle 1200 is a good training ride for PBP, the year before, in 2010. Here's the 2006 info pages 2010 coming soon.

Just call me AnalChap ... though being rude to officials may cost you the ride, as well. Just like in France.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (7 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> Look at it this way; if you came all the way from France to Canada (as I did the opposite in '07, for PBP), to ride, say, the VanIsle 1200 and I caught you cutting the route, you've wasted all that time and money. The least I'm going to do is give you a time penalty and instruct you to ride back to where you "lost" the route.
> 
> Incedentally, the Vanisle 1200 is a good training ride for PBP, the year before, in 2010. Here's the 2006 info pages 2010 coming soon.
> 
> Just call me AnalChap ... though being rude to officials may cost you the ride, as well. Just like in France.



I think Yello was agreeing with you there ... I think "who else actually gives a rat's arse if you do the course or not anyway?" translates as "the only person you're doing Audax rides for is yourself."  I might be wrong, of course.


----------



## yello (7 Jan 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I think Yello was agreeing with you there .



Indeed he was! Thanks RT!

I ride for myself, for the personal challenge of doing the distance, so I can't quite understand someone that _pretends_ to have done it. It makes no sense to me at all. I don't care personally whether other riders cheat or not, or whether they are found out or no, - but I figure they'd know. So, yes, they're only really cheating themselves.


----------



## Randochap (7 Jan 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I think Yello was agreeing with you there ... I think "who else actually gives a rat's arse if you do the course or not anyway?" translates as "the only person you're doing Audax rides for is yourself."  I might be wrong, of course.



Hard to say, though the thought did cross my mind. Need a translator. 

Anyway, just to prove we're not anal Canucks, here's a few snaps of our friendly secret controls. We always have treats on hand and riders are always happy to have an excuse to stop. In most cases, we put them at the top of big friggin' hills!


----------



## yello (7 Jan 2009)

....um, randochap

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=535581#post535581


----------



## Randochap (8 Jan 2009)

yello said:


> ....um, randochap
> 
> http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=535581#post535581



Apologies. I interpreted your post to mean those who expected riders to stay to the route sheet were "retentive" types.

AUK seems to have some strange conventions. The only time we have "shortest route" rules is on a fleche. 

We strictly enforce keeping to route on brevets. It isn't fair to those who have ridden the exact route for others who take shortcuts to be awarded the time they signed in at the end.


----------



## yello (8 Jan 2009)

No problems, I realised there was a simple misunderstanding at the heart. 

Clubs, of any kind, are curious. They have rules that, on the scale of things, really do not matter. But that is what a club is - a group of people agreeing to adhere to a set of rules. If you don't agree then don't belong. You're not compelled to - it's not as if anyone cares either way. That's why I can't get my head around people cheating on an audax.


----------



## Randochap (8 Jan 2009)

yello said:


> No problems, I realised there was a simple misunderstanding at the heart.
> 
> Clubs, of any kind, are curious. They have rules that, on the scale of things, really do not matter. But that is what a club is - a group of people agreeing to adhere to a set of rules. If you don't agree then don't belong. You're not compelled to - it's not as if anyone cares either way. That's why I can't get my head around people cheating on an audax.



Cheers.

At BC Randonneurs, we are constantly challenged to "update" rules and guidelines. For instance, the advent of mobile (cel) phones, which riders are inclined to use to call in help has caused us tighten up the "no assistance between controls" rule. This recently created a real barney between the "don't be so anal" crowd and those of us trying to maintain the spirit of self-reliance that, I believe, has formed the central tenet of the sport.

Some riders these days don't even know how to replace a gear cable


----------



## yello (8 Jan 2009)

Mobile phones - that's interesting. Personally, I'd be happy with a 'no mobiles' rule. No big thing. I would however carry one with me AND use it if I decided the situation required it.

It seems obvious to me that a situation where you'd need to use a mobile would also be one that prevented you completing the audax anyway! Surely, a DNF on your record is trivial compared to getting yourself home safe and sound or, worse still, to hospital! 

I could change a gear cable (if I had a spare!), or complete on a single gear/chainring if needed. I was once riding with someone whose rear mech broke - so I removed it, shortened the chain and we completed the ride. But that was our decision. We could have equally made a phone call and got a pick-up. The truth is that we didn't want to hang around waiting. Whether it was a DNF or not was not an issue at that point. Getting the situation resolved was way more important. That's what I mean by anal. Not the rules themselves but the people that loose sight and just HAVE to play by them. 

But then I'm not one to keep my completed brevet cards either. They lie around for a bit and then get binned when I have a clean up! 

I'm sure there are many riders like me and, generally speaking, I suspect we are all the same in that we greatly appreciate the work put in by organisers. We're really not going to get all hot and bothered by something that, as I say, on the scale of things just does not matter. If it so contravenes a sense of fair play (or whatever) then don't belong - simple really.


----------



## Nuncio (8 Jan 2009)

The ‘only cheating yourself’ argument is an interesting one. Audax UK claims to be a non-competive organization, so the ‘only cheating yourself’ argument should apply. But Audax UK also has a points system. And what do points mean? Trophies and championships, both for individuals and groups (clubs, CTC districts etc). So as soon as that comes into the equation, there is the possibility that you could be cheating others. For some people, this matters. I am not one of them.


----------



## yello (8 Jan 2009)

Fair point Nunio. And one where my argument does fall down! I personally don't care about the awards and trophies as I have my own goals. 

I can understand that someone who was going for a points award would feel pretty pissed off if they knew they'd been beaten by someone that cheated - that is, IF they know. They may not. So they wouldn't necessarily feel cheated (or, if they did, others would too thereby making it an unrecognised victory!). Besides, it hasn't robbed them of their points nor lessened their achievement in any way

The cheater, however, will always know they've cheated. They are the only person that will know, with any degree of certainty, that they did not win. In that sense, they only ever cheat themselves. 

Is this starting to sound like 'Crime & Punishment' yet!!


----------



## ColinJ (8 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> Apologies. I interpreted your post to mean those who expected riders to stay to the route sheet were "retentive" types.
> 
> AUK seems to have some strange conventions. The only time we have "shortest route" rules is on a fleche.
> 
> We strictly enforce keeping to route on brevets. It isn't fair to those who have ridden the exact route for others who take shortcuts to be awarded the time they signed in at the end.


What about _longcuts_ ? I did the North-West Passage 200 in 2007 but I decided that I didn't like all the A-roads so I did my own route between controls taking in much nicer scenery and lots of extra hills. I think that I ended up doing about 220 km with many hundreds of metres more climbing.


----------



## Randochap (8 Jan 2009)

ColinJ said:


> What about _longcuts_ ? I did the North-West Passage 200 in 2007 but I decided that I didn't like all the A-roads so I did my own route between controls taking in much nicer scenery and lots of extra hills. I think that I ended up doing about 220 km with many hundreds of metres more climbing.



You get the "Beyond The Call of Duty" award! 

But now you know whose routes to pass up.


----------



## ColinJ (8 Jan 2009)

Randochap said:


> You get the "Beyond The Call of Duty" award!
> 
> But now you know whose routes to pass up.


I chose to do the Mini-North-West Passage instead last year because it takes a shortcut along some nice roads in the Forest of Bowland and misses out the A65 and other roads that I didn't want to do.

I'm not knocking the main event - it's a sensible route for mid-February - if you don't mind fast, busy roads. My scenic detours wouldn't have been possible in icy conditions, but I wouldn't have ridden a 200 in icy conditions anyway .


----------

