# Road / Gravel e-bike for under 3k



## NowAvoidingHills (10 Jan 2021)

Hi All,

So this week I started that long road to buying my first e-bike. Having been cycling avidly about 100 miles a week for the past 11 years and now in my mid 40's I have found myself avoiding hills at all costs which in the area I live in does some what limit your options! I love the views at the top and coming down like most folk but the effort getting up is proving too much, especially since being diagnosed with CFS last year and this then in turn limits your motivation to get out in the first place. 

I'm potentially looking for a gravel setup as we have a lot of tracks or 'crappy' roads around and it would be nice to go an explore that bit further but I wouldn't be too upset to just stick to the roads as I do now. 

So far I have come across the Ribble AGR AL e, Boardman ADV 8.9em Cairn E-Adventure 1 and the Canyon Endurace ON 7.0 all within my budget which was great but then I start looking at which motor is best - should I go for Fazua or for ebikemotion? 

Then I start seeing some bikes from 2020 currently been sold for less then RRP like an Orbea Gain D30 & D31 and a Focus Paralane 6.7 & 6.8 and a Whyte Winchelsea! So I'm getting more perplexed by the minute when the Giant E+ comes along also being sold well below 3K but then do I need a motor this powerful and bike this heavy!!??

Any help and advice would be much appreciated, 
Thanks!


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## SWSteve (10 Jan 2021)

Can’t help you with much sorry, but at a take away coffee stop a couple of weeks ago I started talking (socially distanced) with a bloke who said he was 80 and had recently gotten an e-road bike. He said it had given him a new lease of life, and meant that the 50k rides he used to do are now an option, and he said something along the lines of ‘I feel young again’.

Whilst I can’t help you with any of the technical stuff, that was enough of an endorsement For me to think of them for the future...


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## PK99 (11 Jan 2021)

I'm in much the same position, but age 65 & I've looked at most of what you mention.

A mate is a new bike obsessive. Always researching in great detail and often (sic, he is an N+2, at least) builds his own. He has 3 tandems! And an uncountable number of recent road bikes.

He has settled on the Fazua system and has a Boardman as a gravel bike and something fancy I can't recall road bike. He seems to be considering disposing of much of his non- e-bike stable.

I've more or less settled on the Whyte Winchelsea.
I like:
It's essentially the very well thought out variation of Glencoe Road Plus with a Fazua motor add on.
(For an e-bike) lightweight
Simple x1 gearing - If I've got e-assistance I don't need to obsess about matching cadence to gear for max efficiency
Will cope well with road, towpath, forest trail. moderate singletrack.
Fazuza motor and battery demountable/replaceable ie more future proof
Can be ridden without the weight of motor or battery for local flat rides.
Fazua motor is self-tunable using the provided app.
Tours/long rides can be accommodated by carrying an extra battery!
Tubeless tyres
I've got a Whyte dealer within walking distance, I've used them for MTB for years, I trust them more than Halfords/Boardman.


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## Drago (11 Jan 2021)

The Giant is a claimed 80NM of torque. 

Id take that with a pinch of salt. Firstly, you have transmission losses on top of that. Second, thats almost as much torque as some small cars (Peugeotm107 is only 92NM), and seeing as neither the cycle manufacturer or motor manufacturer are disclosing how they came by that measurement you can take that with a large dose sodium chloride. Certainly no one is getting anywhere near these figures on a dyno, so the prevailing thinking is theyre claiming a mathematical output based upon input power, motor efficiency and gearing, rather than an actual physical power output that rhe rider can utilise. Don't believe the headlines.

At legal power levels there isn't a great deal of difference between motor systems. Im a whisker under 19 stones and a claimed 60NM assists me up hills with ease.

Your bigger problem is finding a bike that suits _you_ as an individual. Only you can be the arbiter of that. Ordinarily I would say go and ride a few but thats difficult at the moment with ebikes in relatively short supply - even demonstrators are quickly finding their way off the shop floor, such is the demand.

Take a step back and decide what type of riding will be your primary type - little point going for a gravel machine for a mile of trails, only to have a 20 mile round trip on tarmac to get there. Think carefully about the type of riding you do, and select that accordingly.

Then decide what features are essential.

Then decide what features are desirable.

Then decide what ancillary considerstions are important, like warranty, proximity of a dealer for repaits and maintenances, etc.

Then make your shorlist, and go speak to some retailers. If you can in any way do so try and get a test ride - you wouldn't drop that ampunt on a car without trying it, so why would you do so on a bike? As aforementioned, that msy be difficult, but it should still be your goal.

I can understand the thought processes at work, but what suits me personally as a 19 stone, 6'4" mesomorph, with limited shoulder motion and one arm full of titanium, is unlikely to be very relevant to you.

Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.


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## gzoom (11 Jan 2021)

I've had my Boardman Fauza hybrid for coming up to a year, I use it mainly for commuting and haven't ridden any hub powered bike.







The main things I like about the Boardman is the fact Fazua has updated the software in the last 12 months to allow for user programmable support levels - mine is set at 100watts on minimal support, and 300watts max. There is also zero resistance at speeds over 15mph, and if the rear wheel develops an issue than sorting it out should be easier than for a hub powered one. At just over 15kg its also not crazy heavy, so quite easy to ride with no motor support which I do quite a lot as my average speed on the bike is around 16mph, so just over the motor cut off.






Stuff I dont like is the battery has to turned off/on at the main switch after 8hrs. The battery lock mechanism could be easier to use but not a massive issue as I use it every day. The current Fazua bikes have got an easier to use lock mechanism and I believe the battery can now power on/off without going to the main switch.

Given you'r cycling experience I really wouldn't worry about power provided by any eBike. I took my Fazua up the biggest hill in Leicestershire recently, the powersetting was only on minimal so 100watts and I would say 80% effort, and this is what it did to my climbing time versus going all oiy max attack on my sub 8kg road bike!!









You have to take Strava power estimates as a guess, but it is interesting to see the estimate for my Fazua supported efforts was almost exactly 100watts more than unsupported! - Fauza also gives you real life power readings, so you could do a FTP effort on it if you really like numbers.





Ultimately I wouldn't get too bothered about what motor system the bike has, just pick the best bike you like the look of!! My max budget was £2k and I got my Boardman on sale at just under that amount, if given the choice again I would have liked to spend a bit more on a drop handle version.

Still over the winter months I've loved having an eBike. Having electric support or even just knowing its there, is the difference between going out on the bike vesus taking the car when its -5 degrees windchill and laziness sets in!! I've spent far more time in the saddle this winter than any before, having an eBike is a big reason .


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## NowAvoidingHills (11 Jan 2021)

Thanks all for the replies. It is particularly good to see the comparison of times Gzoom along with the data you supplied! 
I'm still undecided at the moment although I've just established with discounts I can get a Boardman ADV 8.9e for £2165 from the RRP of £2699 which is mighty tempting to save some cash! Just not convinced on some of the finishing kit and the groupset? 

Do I go for this, be able to get a bike pretty quickly (very unlikely for anything else at the moment) or spend more, wait a bit and get some improvement on parts? My head now hurts!!!


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## gzoom (11 Jan 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Just not convinced on some of the finishing kit and the groupset?



The finishing kit on the Boardman is the weakest part of the bike, but mine is a commuter, so I don't mind.

If cash wasn't an issue this would be the frameset/groupset I would happily pair up with Fazua.....Infact am amazed I haven't bought one already....the £7K price tag aside 

The Cayon Roadlite:ON looks very good for you're budget.


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## NowAvoidingHills (12 Jan 2021)

gzoom said:


> The finishing kit on the Boardman is the weakest part of the bike, but mine is a commuter, so I don't mind.
> 
> If cash wasn't an issue this would be the frameset/groupset I would happily pair up with Fazua.....Infact am amazed I haven't bought one already....the £7K price tag aside
> 
> ...


Oh yes very nice! If only the budget stretched that far!

Now busy comparing the Canyon Endurace ON 7 to the Orbea Gain D30 1X. Both very similar in spec, just a question on the motor preference I guess?


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## gzoom (12 Jan 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Now busy comparing the Canyon Endurace ON 7 to the Orbea Gain D30 1X. Both very similar in spec, just a question on the motor preference I guess?



Rightly or wrongly one of the reasons I picked the Boardman is because the Fazua motor is same as what you will find in a Pinarello Nytro, infact the 2021 Domane+ LT 9 comes in at a shade over £10K, which makes the sub £2K I paid for the Boardman seem like bargain!!

Though the Orbea tops out at just under £8K, so realistically I think you will be happy with either. I got into cycling watching Armstrong on Trek road bikes, so my next bike purchase has to be a Trek - am flipping between the Domane + motor and the Emonda SLR.

The bike my Boardman replaced was actually a Carrera Gryphon. So cheating Americans and Halfords specials is what does it for me interms of bikes .


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## T4tomo (12 Jan 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Thanks all for the replies. It is particularly good to see the comparison of times Gzoom along with the data you supplied!
> I'm still undecided at the moment although I've just established with discounts I can get a Boardman ADV 8.9e for £2165 from the RRP of £2699 which is mighty tempting to save some cash! Just not convinced on some of the finishing kit and the groupset?
> 
> Do I go for this, be able to get a bike pretty quickly (very unlikely for anything else at the moment) or spend more, wait a bit and get some improvement on parts? My head now hurts!!!


groupset - SRAM APEX hydraulic what's not to like?
finishing kit - tyres are consumables, seat you normally end up changing for something that suits your bum anyway? what have missed?
i wouldnt order a canyon, with brexit, their usual extra long delivery times will be even longer....


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## NowAvoidingHills (12 Jan 2021)

T4tomo said:


> groupset - SRAM APEX hydraulic what's not to like?
> finishing kit - tyres are consumables, seat you normally end up changing for something that suits your bum anyway? what have missed?
> i wouldnt order a canyon, with brexit, their usual extra long delivery times will be even longer....


I've no experience of SRAM to be honest as I've always ridden with Shimano 2 x Groupsets and currently with Ultegra. Isn't APEX the most basic of their range? Anything I've ever read about it says its clunky and GRX is much better?


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## T4tomo (12 Jan 2021)

Yes it is "bottom" of the range, but that's not like bottom of Shimano being 2300 or Claris. Its roughly Tiagra level, i.e. very little difference, mainly cosmetic, to Rival / 105 and above. it comes with hydraulic brakes too so its not like its missing out on anything major. It changes and stops things as good as its more expensive cousins. Also GRX has Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra equivalent levels (400, 600, 800 resp)

Back in the day higher groupset got you things like internal cable routing and trim function on the front D and 10speed at the rear. Nowadays all that has trickled down to the supposed lower group sets and your extra £££ just buys you a bit of weight loss and the odd bit of carbon. (and I have an Ultegra equipped bike in my stable so I'm pretty unbiased). you're better off spending extra £££ on upgrading wheels and tyres than a more expensive groupset.


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## NowAvoidingHills (12 Jan 2021)

I guess a lot of this comes down to aesthetics. The Orbea Gain is a really nice looking bike, especially now they've incorporated all the cabling and tidied up the cockpit. The built in lights are a nice little feature only with the new display so if I was only looking at Mahle powered machines I'd be in there like a shot!

Its a question of 200 quid between these bikes or would have been until I found out I had the 10% discount with BC and I can also get 10% off e-giftcards at Halfords! That just through a multi spanner into the works!!!


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## gzoom (12 Jan 2021)

I think you will be happy with either, my colleague has the Orbea, his is a summer machine, so always clean and shiny versus mine 






In the summer I had aero bars on the bike looked pretty decent for a commuter bike. Fully internal cables would be nice, but its not a deal breaker.

x1 Drivetrain is not an issue on these eBikes with more support, my current road bike is 105/Ultegra and I'm actually thinking about x1 setup for the road bike as not having the front mech to faff with is quite nice.


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## stoatsngroats (12 Jan 2021)

I was looking at this mid last year, and liked the Fazua kit, and the Cairn would have suited me, but I went non-E bike in the end as I coulda get the C2W for the full value.
It looks like a great bike, but good luck with what ever you choose!


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## richtea (12 Jan 2021)

We have one ebikemotion and one Fazua. The short version of how they compare is:

The Boardman is a marginally better design overall, IMHO, but at a correspondingly higher price.
The Orbea is better than I expected. I bought it nearly-new as an experiment - expecting to sell it again, but I love it.
Just supposing they were the same price, I'd buy a Boardman/Fazua, but it's not that much better that I'd swap over now.

Even though the bikes are the most basic models available, compared to a 20 year-old steel tourer neither will disappoint. They're close to the weight of a Dawes Super Galaxy (maybe 1-2Kgs more), and they basically let you tackle rides you would have done, well, 20 years ago.

The long version:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/page-63

The only update to that is that the 2021 Orbeas are even tidier with hidden cables and built-in lights, with a £100-150(?) price hike. I'd probably pay for that - it's sweet.
And if you're going Fazua, try and get a model with the latest battery retention clip. If not, it can be retro-fitted for £130-150. You might be able to argue for the bike shop to help on that cost.


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## T4tomo (13 Jan 2021)

gzoom said:


> x1 Drivetrain is not an issue on these eBikes with more support, my current road bike is 105/Ultegra and I'm actually thinking about x1 setup for the road bike as not having the front mech to faff with is quite nice.


I have 1x on my "winter bike" which is also my gravel bike, a bought 2nd hand Pinnacle arkose. (I have 2 sets of wheels so no need to faff changing tyres for on/offroad use). As it was built to a budget pre Apex 1x11, its got TPR hydro brakes and a bar end shifter for a 1x10 set up. I find it refreshingly easy having a 10 gears "all in row" and not worrying about a front change. The bar end shift didn't take much getting used to and was a small compromise to get hydro brakes on drop bars at the price point. I think my highest gear is 38x11, but I've not missed a few ratios at that top end and I have nice low climbing gears.

I'm waffling, but the gist is that a 1x set up, with modern wide ratio cassettes is decent option for most "leisure" cyclists whether ebike or not.


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## NowAvoidingHills (13 Jan 2021)

Lots of interesting reading thanks all. 

I guess my mind is now saying either buy the Orbea at £2999 or go for the Boardman at £2150 with all the discounts I can get one way or the other. Is the Orbea worth another £700!?


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## gzoom (13 Jan 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Lots of interesting reading thanks all.
> 
> I guess my mind is now saying either buy the Orbea at £2999 or go for the Boardman at £2150 with all the discounts I can get one way or the other. Is the Orbea worth another £700!?



£700 buys you better wheels, better saddle, etc. The Fazua motor and in general mid drive motors are more complex engineering items than hub motors found in the Orbea, and allows for true torque measures. If the Orbea was cheaper I would say you have a hard decision, but with it the otherway round I wouldn't think twice about getting the Boardman.


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## richtea (14 Jan 2021)

As gzoom says, the Orbea/ebikemotion is generally the cheaper option.
I'd definitely go Boardman, and keep the spare for playing with extras/upgrades, as suggested above.


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## gzoom (15 Jan 2021)

Just for interest I thought I try out 'rocket' mode on the Fazua going up the steepest hill around me - not that long but at 16% in places I've passed people walking up it!

The result I took nearly 20 seconds off my best time for a 60 second climb, and I recon I could have gone quicker as my gearing wasn't 100% right for the motor support! I don't know about the Orbea, but the Fazua motor certainly provides more than enough grunt to the point with max support for most hill (so 10% gradients) really require very little effort.


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## NowAvoidingHills (15 Jan 2021)

That's quite a margin and is exactly what I need to give me that incentive to get back up them hills again! 

I'm still being undecisive anyway I'm afraid. I should probably just stop looking and take the plunge but then I see a Gain D31 2020 model up for just £2339 and a D30 2020 for £2599 and the thought process starts all over again.

I don't know what's pulling me away from Boardman, perhaps because I've had bad experiences with Halfords in the past and never really thought they are up to much rightly or wrongly. 

At this rate they'll be no bikes available at all! I doubt you would stand much chance of getting anything direct from Europe at the moment. A lot of companies have put a hold on shipping completely while they sort out the mess that is Brexit and all the new customs requirements they have to adhere too!!!


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## gzoom (15 Jan 2021)

@NowAvoidingHills Good luck deciding but the sooner you go for it the sooner you get to enjoy a dimension to cycling.

I honestly cannot believe how much I have used my eBike since getting it. Never appreciated how nice cycling on unlit roads are in the middle of January. 

Having the electrical assistance to bail you out means things excuses like wind, rain, hills, luggage melt away, which means more time on the bike .

Just flip a coin if you really cannot decide!


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## NowAvoidingHills (17 Jan 2021)

Lets throw a spanner into the mix here......now come across the Bergamont E-Grandurance Elite!

There is a 2021 model available for 3.1K from the RRP of 3.5K which I need to get to the cycle shop on by the COB today! Slightly over budget but would anybody consider this over and above the 2021 Gain?

Its a great looking bike but not too familiar with the brand but understand they are big on the continent and are part of Scott. The only thing that I didn't like is the look of some of the welds.


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## gzoom (17 Jan 2021)

Looks great, if you like it go for it!!

The mornings are now lovely for rides, this was my commute today .


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## T4tomo (18 Jan 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Lets throw a spanner into the mix here......now come across the Bergamont E-Grandurance Elite!
> 
> There is a 2021 model available for 3.1K from the RRP of 3.5K which I need to get to the cycle shop on by the COB today! Slightly over budget but would anybody consider this over and above the 2021 Gain?
> 
> ...


looks like its been welded by a blind monkey on a friday on its way to the pub. Look at the finish on the Boardman and get it bought. 

A mid drive is much more versatile (vs the Orbea hub drive) as you can then easily haev 2 sets of wheels, one for road tyres, one for offroad. The Boardman at £2.7k is defo a better buy.


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## NowAvoidingHills (18 Jan 2021)

Well I went and ordered an Orbea D30 GRX! It was always a close call but I just preferred the look of it over the Boardman at the end of the day so lets hope I don't live to regret it! 

Will let you know how I get on once I have it.

Thanks all!


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## gzoom (18 Jan 2021)

Enjoy, hope you post back your impressions.


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## theboxers (26 Apr 2021)

gzoom said:


> Just for interest I thought I try out 'rocket' mode on the Fazua going up the steepest hill around me - not that long but at 16% in places I've passed people walking up it!
> 
> The result I took nearly 20 seconds off my best time for a 60 second climb, and I recon I could have gone quicker as my gearing wasn't 100% right for the motor support! I don't know about the Orbea, but the Fazua motor certainly provides more than enough grunt to the point with max support for most hill (so 10% gradients) really require very little effort.


The fazua motor will take me (117kg at last weigh in) and my Cube Agree hybrid size 56 with 50/34 and 11-32 gearing (15kg as I have it) up 15% hills. I almost made it up a 21% near Brands Hatch, but my legs and lungs gave out , I misread the info on the route I had planned .


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## scoobs (4 May 2021)

NowAvoidingHills said:


> Well I went and ordered an Orbea D30 GRX! It was always a close call but I just preferred the look of it over the Boardman at the end of the day so lets hope I don't live to regret it!
> 
> Will let you know how I get on once I have it.
> 
> Thanks all!


Wrong choice 🤣🤣🤣


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