# Rory O'Brien bike



## pubrunner (17 Sep 2007)

Hi, 

I have a Rory O'Brien bike, but so far, I've not managed to find anything about either the bike or Rory O'Brien. 

I believe that the bike dates back to the early 1960s. It has a nice Brooks Colt saddle and the original Bluemels mudguards. The headset is Campagnolo. It has 26" wheels. 

It has no badge on the headset, though it looks as if one may have been there many years ago. 

It has nice curved lugwork on the headset; by the seat post & on the bottom bracket. These are shaped a bit like a Fleur De Lis. (There is probably a name for this, but I don't know it). 

I can't see any serial numbers, but under the bottom bracket is stamped the letter 'M' or possibly 'E'; it looks rather like two overlapping semicircles. Should I look elsewhere for identification marks ? 

The only identification it carries is the name 'Rory O'Brien' on the downtube. 

I would be greatful if anyone could tell me anything about the bike. Who is/was Rory O'Brien ? Did he make the frame or was it a model name for another manufacturer ? Will it have Reynolds tubing ? What sort of quality are these bikes ? 

Thank you for any information.


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## robgul (17 Sep 2007)

IIRC Rory O'Brien was a shop in Romford Road, East Ham, London E6 - certainly there in the 60s/early 70s - all I remember was that a few "cool" cyclists had RO'B machines.

Rob


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## Smokin Joe (17 Sep 2007)

Rory O'Brien had two shops in the East London area, and was a well established lightweight dealer. The main shop was in Romford and had been in business since at least the early sixties, his other shop in Manor Park closed in the mid seventies. Rory himself sold the business some years back, and it was latterly owned by the John's of Romford motorcycle chain before finally ceasing to trade three or four years ago. Rory was a member of my first club, the Easterly Road Club, and he was probably the premier dealer for club cyclists in the East London and Essex areas for many years, the Manor Park branch near me resembling a clubroom on a Saturdaymorning, packed with cyclists. His frames were widely used by local riders, and it was rare to come upon a clubrun on the Essex roads without at least one Rory in the peleton. The frames were not made on the premises of either shop, being built on an industrial estate in nearby Dagenham for at least part of the time. They were well regarded as a good quality frameset, even non-cyclists would often be heard to exclaim "Wow look, a Rory o'Brien".

Be great if you could post a pic, Pubrunner.


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## scm (23 Sep 2007)

He also sponsored an independent Brighton-based rider called Ron Pannell during the late 60s, IIRC.


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## Bean (15 Dec 2007)

*Rory O`Brien*

Rory had shop in Romford Rd, Manor Park in 1950`s, and as previously stated was the Sat morning meet for lots of East London cyclists. subsequently opened another shop in North St Romford.
Dave Bedwell worked for Rory and was I believe his wheelbuilder. Picture of Rory on Devon CTC site commemorating Dave Bedwell, shown holding up Dave at Grasstrack meet.
Believe Rory helped to set Ephgrave up in business in E London, don`t know who built Rory`s frames but quite possibly Ephgrave.


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## kdh56 (28 Dec 2007)

I have a Rory O'Brien, about mid 70's with Dura-ace.


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## spandex (28 Dec 2007)

Nice bike


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## Smokin Joe (28 Dec 2007)

Yes, a good looking machine. It's a long time since I've seen cable clips on the top tube and a lamp bracket boss on the forks.

How long have you owned it, kdh?


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## ChrisWx (14 Feb 2008)

Me riding a "Rory" circa 1964 in a 25 on the Southend Arterial wearing the colours of University CC.
I worked for Rory at his shop in Romford at about that time. He was a kindly chap.
Note : Mafacs, Stronglite cotterless, handlebar control and Buddy Holly glasses.


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## simonali (14 Feb 2008)

Smokin Joe said:


> Yes, a good looking machine. It's a long time since I've seen cable clips on the top tube and a lamp bracket boss on the forks.
> 
> How long have you owned it, kdh?



And the tape on the seat-tube protecting the paint from the metal bracket that came with the rear Ever Ready lamp!


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## Smokin Joe (14 Feb 2008)

simonali said:


> And the tape on the seat-tube protecting the paint from the metal bracket that came with the rear Ever Ready lamp!


I never went on an evening chain gang without at least one member having to walk back along the road trying to find the bits of one of those things after it shook itself apart.

Awful bloody monstrosities.


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## david hawkins (30 Apr 2008)

rory obrian sold romford shop to johns of romford but carried the name on rory himself passed away approx 17 years ago john of romford also passed away approx 5years ago rory lived in the chase behind shop roger the mechanic moved to devon worked on post offic cycles this is all i realy now kind regards dave


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## domtyler (30 Apr 2008)

Is that the original chain?


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## david hawkins (1 May 2008)

pubrunner said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Rory O'Brien bike, but so far, I've not managed to find anything about either the bike or Rory O'Brien.
> 
> ...


rory o brian passed away about 17 years ago he sold shop in romford to johns of romford chain who carried on the rory o brian name prior to that the shop in now a grocers shop the mechanic roger moved in the 60s to devon to repair post office cycles


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## maryhinge (20 May 2008)

At which point did Roy Hodges own Rory O 'Brien? Shop was at 134 North Street Romford, run by Roy's daughter Mandy and her husband Mick. I believe Roy sold the business to John's of Romford with Steve Sach as manager.


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## NORTHERN CHIEF (5 Jun 2008)

Hi everyone,

I`m new to this site, but I thought I would mention that I too have found myself in possesion of a Rory O`brian.
I did`nt know what it was until last weekend when I attacked the fork post with some very light wet and dry. Amazing it was when this gold backed script revealed the name Rory O`brian.
Since then I have been trying to find out who the fella was, and that led me to this site. Very interesting.


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## Dayvo (5 Jun 2008)

So far so good! 
Welcome along, Chief!
Hang around for a bit, you'll find some/most posts worthwhile, with a few laughs thrown in.


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## Peter Gilbert (7 Jul 2008)

*Rory O Brien*

I lived in Manor Park E12 and was one of of the young aspiring who every Saturday morning went to the "Rory O Brien Club" looked at the Mafacs and Weinneman, Campagnolo etc and decided the pocket money would not stretch that far - and then watched Dave Bedwell race on a Sunday if it was in Essex.

Luckily I akso knew Rory when he indulged his second passion - racing a Shearwater catamaran on the Essex coast.

To the point - Rory was a great influnce in British cycle racing after the war plus a most lovely man!

Anyone got a Rory bike for sale.

Peter Gilbert


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## randombadger69 (28 Oct 2008)

pubrunner said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Rory O'Brien bike, but so far, I've not managed to find anything about either the bike or Rory O'Brien.
> 
> ...



I am currently collecting parts to build up a Rory O'Brien frameset I have hangin' at work. It's built for 27 x 1 1/4" wheels (with mudguard clearances) and has old-skool cable braze-ons and a lip to stop the band-on downtube levers sliding down the down tube. Has Campag forward facing drop-outs and a cable hanger for the old centre-pull weinnman/mafac type brakes. Tubing is most likely 531 (27.2mm Seat pin and nice and light). I would hazard a guess at this frame being late sixties to early seventies. The only odd one is that the frame is spaced to 130mm, which i figure has been done at a later date to "Modernise" it.

There is a numero under the B/B shell, which i will take. It may be possible to get an idea of age (if speaking to the right "enthusiast"). The people i have spoken to, which used to visit the shop say that it is most likely to have been built be a certain Mr Vic(k)? Edwards.

Crazy where you end up when tapping into "Google"

How it looks @ the Mo. pre resto..


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## randombadger69 (28 Oct 2008)

maryhinge said:


> At which point did Roy Hodges own Rory O 'Brien? Shop was at 134 North Street Romford, run by Roy's daughter Mandy and her husband Mick. I believe Roy sold the business to John's of Romford with Steve Sach as manager.



Steve has been a customer of ours (@ Madgetts Cycles, Diss) and used to manage the shop. He has the tastiest Rory O'Brien labelled frame... chrome lugs and a CK 2nut headset. Not sure how old it was or who built it, but it looked the business!


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## pubrunner (29 Oct 2008)

randombadger69 said:


> I am currently collecting parts to build up a Rory O'Brien frameset I have hangin' at work. It's built for 27 x 1 1/4" wheels (with mudguard clearances) and has old-skool cable braze-ons and a lip to stop the band-on downtube levers sliding down the down tube. Has Campag forward facing drop-outs and a cable hanger for the old centre-pull weinnman/mafac type brakes. Tubing is most likely 531 (27.2mm Seat pin and nice and light). I would hazard a guess at this frame being late sixties to early seventies. The only odd one is that the frame is spaced to 130mm, which i figure has been done at a later date to "Modernise" it.
> 
> There is a numero under the B/B shell, which i will take. It may be possible to get an idea of age (if speaking to the right "enthusiast"). The people i have spoken to, which used to visit the shop say that it is most likely to have been built be a certain Mr Vic(k)? Edwards.
> 
> ...



A very interesting posting. 

I think that your bike would probably have been made by Vic Edwards. Les Ephgrave made many frames for Rory O'Brien, but he died in 1969 and I think that your bike looks newer than that. 

Vic Edwards made Rondinella frames; he also made a few O'Brien's.

If you look at this site 
http://www.essexroadscyclingclub.com/pages/members/2007JohnYatesBikes.html

you may see a couple of O'Briens and a Rondinella.


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## randombadger69 (29 Oct 2008)

pubrunner said:


> A very interesting posting.
> 
> I think that your bike would probably have been made by Vic Edwards. Les Ephgrave made many frames for Rory O'Brien, but he died in 1969 and I think that your bike looks older than that.
> 
> ...



Older or newer than 1969? My boss has an Ephgrave hanging up at work, it's been restored and is awaiting the re-assembly. The lugs on it are true craftsmanship. The oddest thing about that particular frame is that on the R/H side of the down tube is a boss for an old downtube lever apposed to a lip or "stop". and there is a cable stop on the non-drive side of the down tube by the B/B shell even though there is no lever mount. 

I shall get some piccys of it as it needs to be seen, a stunner.

As for Rondinella frames we have had a couple as part-ex bikes over the years and they are very nicely finished. The seat clamp arrangement was very tidy and unique in its assembly


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## randombadger69 (29 Oct 2008)

ChrisWx said:


> Me riding a "Rory" circa 1964 in a 25 on the Southend Arterial wearing the colours of University CC.
> I worked for Rory at his shop in Romford at about that time. He was a kindly chap.
> Note : Mafacs, Stronglite cotterless, handlebar control and Buddy Holly glasses.



Is it me or are you riding with the brakes "continental"?

Nice pic btw.


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## pubrunner (29 Oct 2008)

randombadger69 said:


> Older or newer than 1969?


Sorry, *newer* than 1969. Les was in poor health for a few years before he died - I've been told that he built very little after 1965.

I'd be interested to see pics of an Ephgrave - I've never seen one.


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## Perfect Virgo (30 Oct 2008)

I stumbled across the site Classic British Lightweights, which has plenty of gorgeous pictures including several Ephgraves. Hope this helps.


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## randombadger69 (30 Oct 2008)

Perfect Virgo said:


> I stumbled across the site Classic British Lightweights, which has plenty of gorgeous pictures including several Ephgraves. Hope this helps.



Thanks for that, very interesting and has given me some clues to it's age.



pubrunner said:


> Sorry, *newer* than 1969. Les was in poor health for a few years before he died - I've been told that he built very little after 1965.
> 
> I'd be interested to see pics of an Ephgrave - I've never seen one.



Well after looking at Classic lightweights, im in two minds. Certain features of the ephgrave frames including the headlugs have taken my eye, but in particular this seat stay arrangement on a 1959 Ephgrave No.1 fixed wheel bike...

It is identical on the Rory. Also look at the head lugs.. they are very Ephgrave, not as elaborate, but similar style. 

I will get pics of my Bosses frame tho, i'll try and remember 2moz.


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## pubrunner (30 Oct 2008)

randombadger69 said:


> Thanks for that, very interesting and has given me some clues to it's age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The seat stays are exactly the same as on my O'Brien


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## Bean (1 Dec 2008)

That is a blast from the past, Roy Hodges and I were in the same Club, the Avenue. Often wondered what he got up to after I packed it in in 1957 ??????


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## normgow (22 Mar 2009)

Rory O'Brien's shop in Manor Park was managed for many years by Ken Kirby ,who also wrote a history of his club, the Becontree Wheelers while Rory himself spent most of his time in the Romford shop when that opened. Not far from the Manor Park shop was Hobbs of Barbican , another mecca for East London and Essex cyclists up until its closure in the sixties.
Not far from the North Street, Romford shop was P and A Kenistons located near the railway station. Their shop was divided in two , one side selling mopeds and utility bikes the other lightweigts. This also became a mecca and the confined space often full of young enthusiasts must have frightened away many potential customers who weren't part of the Essex cycling faternity. This side of the business was run by "Mitch" Mitchell and Dave Whiting who had previously worked for Ducketts in Seven Kings.
Getting back to Rory Obrien ,in the early sixties he sponsored a team of independents, Dave Bedwell, Ron Pannell, Jim Grieves and Bob Newell. Previously he had sponsored Dave Bedwell possibly as an individual rider but I'm not sure as that was even before my time.


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## kdh56 (1 Jul 2009)

Sorry for not replying sooner. I got my Rory O'Brien in the seventies. The frame is a 22" and for anyone who doesn't know they are in Romford, Essex. They did have a shop in Manor Park. Bike is made up with Shimano Dura-Ace with Campagnolo headset.


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## limey (26 Aug 2009)

*Rory O'Brien*

I can confirm the accuracy of most of the above as I had a Saturday job at the Rory shop in Manor Park from 1962-66 working for Ken Kirby who was Rory's brother-in-law. During the same period I raced Rory bikes on road and track, first as a junior and then as a 1st category amateur. I was sponsored by Rory during this period and raced under the colours of Romford RC.

Our weekday training rides started at 7pm from the Moby Dick r/about. My regular training partner was Bernie Deamer, a 1st cat amateur for Kenistons, and occasionally Alan Perkins, a pro with the Moulton team.

I stopped racing at the end of 1966 due to non-compatability with my studies but continued to "ride a Rory" until 1999 when steel frames gave way to Aluminium. Since then I have ridden Cannondale and my current road bike is a Scott CR1.

In 1978 I moved to France and have lived in the South, just outside Montpellier, for 25 years. I am now 63 but continue to ride competitively in 10-12 cyclosportives p.annum including the Ardechoise and the Bosses du 13. I ride between 800 and 1000 Kms per month.

I would very much like to have contact with anyone who was active in the same mid60s period in E. London / Essex area and with whom I may have ridden. I have a Rory frame catalogue, photos, racing licences and other mementos from this same period if anyone is interested.


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## raindog (9 Sep 2009)

What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here. 

I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth. It's got a really nice Stronglight headset with a 'toothed' adjusting system. Anyroad, here's a picture of the frame. (if I can manage it, that is)
Now I've joined, I may as well make the effort to join in on the rest of the forum, but it'll take a while for me to explore it.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Sep 2009)

Welcome raindog! Wow, that's a real one-off. I've never seen a bike with a split seat tube like that - looks very elegant. I wouldn't bother with transfers - leave 'em guessing! Just get some wheels on and see how it rides.


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## raindog (9 Sep 2009)

Thanks for the welcome swee'pea.
I've got the bike built up now with the original wheels, and even took it out a couple of times before I got the brake fitted () but since then the tubs have gone rotten, so I'll probably just keep it hanging on the wall looking pretty.


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## limey (9 Sep 2009)

Thanks for the picture. Except for the split seat tube it looks exactly like my Rory track frame from 1963/4. The front fork crown and the lug work are distinctive. My last visits to the Rory shop in Romford before closure around 2001/2 were to try to obtain transfers for my Rory that required a re-spray. The staff there were less than helpful and probably looking forward to the dole queue. I have no idea where you could get transfers for the frame these days.


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## raindog (10 Sep 2009)

Thanks for the info limey. Wasn't holding out much hope for the transfers to be honest, but I wouldn't mind betting there are some lounging about on a shelf somewhere.


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## pubrunner (2 Oct 2009)

raindog said:


> What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here.
> 
> I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth.



I wouldn't be surprised if the bike that your Dad liked was Saxon Twin Tube, see : 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75395133@N00/1288944526/

and

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...mages?q=saxon+twin+tube+frame&hl=en&sa=N&um=1


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## dan_bo (2 Oct 2009)

Just look at that!


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## raindog (2 Oct 2009)

pubrunner said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the bike that your Dad liked was Saxon Twin Tube, see :
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/75395133@N00/1288944526/
> 
> ...



Thanks for that - the name rings bells for me now, and I'm sure that's what it must have been. Fascinating stuff and great pics.


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## The Bear (3 Oct 2009)

I also used to work in Rory O'Briens - for Roy Hodges daughter Mandy and her husband Mick "Bert" Black. I knew Rory in the late 60s and early 70s - he was a rum character, and quite intimidating for young sprogs just starting out. He once told me that the only way to become a real bike rider was to "put a brick in your saddlebag" and "wear wellington boots". Looking back I expect I was just the sort of nervous little kid he loved to tease! Rory sold the business to Roy Hodges about 1977 - Roy was by then in the Elite CC, and still racing. Rory himself retired to Bicknacre. I worked in the shop for just a couple of years, 1978-1980 if I remember correctly. Dear old Ken Kirby was still there and he taught me to build wheels and swear properly.

Re frames - a word of caution. By the 1970s Rory's frames were not really considered the best - respectable yes, but not the best. In 1970s Essex, probably the two most reckoned frames were Hetchins and Condor - built by Jack Denny and Vic Edwards respectively. However the name "Rory O'Brien" still had a certain cachet about it - probably on the basis that in the 50s and 60s the frames had once been top notch. The shop always remained a mecca for bikies. 

I had 3 Rory O'Brien frames. I bought the first in 1968 for £14, and I only later learnt that it was a "Fiorelli" - a gaspipe tubing job. At the time, a real Rory 531 frame cost about £30-35 which was more than I could afford. I now realise that like many bike shops, Rory stocked a range of "off the peg" frames in addition to the pukka frames customers would have custom built. That continued right into the 1980s. I also had an off the peg Rory frame which had been built by Holdsworth in South London. The third "Rory" I bought was built by Hobbs to my spec and was 531 SL - the first time Hobbs built with SL and they reported it had been very tricky.

In the period that I knew the shop, all the custom frames were built by Hobbs of Barbican. But that's where it gets more complicated, and I would very much like to learn more about this. I know that Ken Kirby had originally worked at Hobbs in the 50s, and recently I've learn that Vic Edwards also worked there. Can anybody supply more info about this? Did Les Ephgrave also work there? The few Ephgrave frames I've seen are beautiful things - but are definitely 50s-60s era.


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## limey (5 Oct 2009)

My last visits to the Rory shop in Romford were after I moved to France in 1978 and I was told by the shop that Ken Kirby had retired. Certainly if he had still been there we would have spoken. However, I do remember there were a good number of Rory frames hanging on hooks, many more than when I worked at Manor Park, and this surprised me as in my days it was more or less only to order.

All my racing wheels were built by Ken and I would not let anyone else touch them. Before important events he always checked the tension and trued them to perfection. Ken was the best with wheels.

The info on frames is amazing. As far as I know none of the frames were made on the premises by any of the makes- they simply did not have the facilities. There were a few select frame builders around who built to order. Vic Edwards rings a bell and if memory is correct he had a workshop in the Ilford, Becontree, Dagenham area. I remember going there several times and watch him braze the tubes together using jigs that could be adjusted for different sizes and angles. Les Ephgrave does not ring any bells to me but this is a long time ago and I may be wrong.

Condor had their shop in Gray's Inn Road, just around the Barbican, and ran a profesional team like Rory but somewhat better organised. The only rider I knew was Alan Jacob.

Anyway, for the 1963 season I had two new Bikes, one for road and one for track. Both were built I believe by Vic Edwards. The problem that occured was that the Road bike came back from the sprayers with Condor labels. Ken Kirby went mad but the problem was not corrected until around September when they were resprayed for the 1964 season. I have several pictures of myself racing in 1963 with Condor prominent on the downtube!

I don't have any recollection of Hobbs being involved. I do remember there were some links to E.G. Bates at Plaistow but don't remember exactly how.

Anyone else able to fill in details please do so.


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## swee'pea99 (5 Oct 2009)

Excellent first post The Bear - welcome to the forum! I shall wear wellingtons henceforth. And welcome to you too Limey. Or should I say bien venu. (probably not since I don't even know how to spell it!)


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## limey (5 Oct 2009)

Just to clarify the way frames used to be built. The sequence was:
+ Bike shop takes order from client
+ Bike shop passes order to frame builder
+ Frame builder has various sets of tubes, pre cut by supplier (e.g. Reynolds) in stock in various standard sizes.
+ Frame builder has various sets of lugs in stock in various designs
+ Frame builder brazes together lugs and tubes in a jig to make the frame.
+ Frame builder cleans up the frame to remove excess brazing material
+ Frame builder sends the frame to a spray shop who sand blast the frame then undercoat and paint it, add the various stickers, then give final coat of clear varnish.
+ Frame is then sent to bikeshop
+ Customer takes delivery.

What I learnt from this is that there was not really any difference from one make to another. The tubing came mostly from Reynolds (531 was the standard for competition bikes). The differences came in the finishing and the reputation of the bike shop.


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## raindog (5 Oct 2009)

Unless you bought a frame from a "real" builder like Mercian, for example, which is where I bought my early frames. Mercian had a shop and also their own workshop where all the above work was carried out, including painting. Chrome work though would have been farmed-out obviously.


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## The Bear (5 Oct 2009)

In my experience, the chrome work was usually done at a different place than the sprayers. And you used to see some beautiful frames with chrome lugs etc - very much a thing of the past now.
Rory's had all their spraying done at Bromar's at Gallows Corner.

Limey - yes, that's good run down. But the best builders built up a reputation for handcutting their lugs, presumably they worked on these in advance - at least I assume that's how it was done. It's a bit like family history this - I knew Hetchin's builder Jack Denny very well, but how I wish I'd asked him more about his craft.

Re Hobbs - I'm beginning to think that Rory O'Briens may only have fallen back on Hobbs in later years.


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## limey (5 Oct 2009)

I had forgotten all about the chrome work- as you say, thing of the past. Back in the 60s you had to have chrome fork ends at least. I remember riding Herne Hill track in 1963 alongside Tom Simpson who had an all chrome Carlton just for the occasion. Afterwards all the trackies wanted the same frame. I tried one but preferred my one of a kind Rory.

But yes you're right, the chrome work was done by electrolysis by a company who specialiised, obviously, in electrolysis. Basically the part to be chromed was immersed in a bath containing the appropriate solution and the current turned on for a period of time depending how thick you wanted the chrome to be. After the frame went for spraying.

The lugs. Yes, again you're right. The lugs were supplied as blanks and certain manufacturers offered optional designs. Some were quite intricate. Basically the frame builder took a blank and then cut and filed (mostly filed) out the design. Today a lost art. Didn't change the performance at all but looked good.

I also think "who did what" for Rory changed over the years as fortunes changed, retirement appeared, etc. I have no recollection at all of Hobbs.

Amazing how thinking of a subject brings back dormant memories. I remember now the probable link between Rory and E G Bates was Dave Bedwell. Originally pro for Rory, in his later years Dave rode for Bates but always remained close to Rory.


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## The Bear (5 Oct 2009)

We had a bit of a chat about Dave Bedwell on another forum recently. 

http://www.thefranceforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=70329#p70329

Apparently Dave lived a few doors away from Kenistons shop near Romford Station.


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## limey (6 Oct 2009)

Interesting, the Wikipedia entry shows Dave as riding for O'Brien Bates in 1964. Not sure how that was organised, as far as I was concerned Dave was with the Rory team.

I trained regularly with a number of Kenistons riders, Bernie Deamer, Roger Canaver, and, i forget, names are on the tip of the tongue, have to think some more. Their shop was in Victoria Road, as you say near the station. Had a good chinese resto the other side of the street, know it well, my wife is from Harold Hill and we used to go there fairly often. Didn't go much on the chinese in North st near Rory's though.


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## The Bear (6 Oct 2009)

We didn't think much of the fish'n'chip shop next door to Rory's - but then that's because we saw their rats popping in and out of our yard every day!

Raindog sent me an invoice of yours from 1979 - that's Mandy's writing. Ken still worked there, but he was part time by then.


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## limey (6 Oct 2009)

Stopped riding that frame in 1999, most of the parts got changed over the years but the brakes, the stem and the bars stayed the same. Gave the bike to a friend end of last year who robbed it for parts to build an original mid 70s Anquetil. Can't believe the difference in weight between that Reynolds 531 and my current Scott carbon though.

How do you like the old Rory catalog? Long time since saw anything in pounds shillings and pence. The DB frame stands for Dave Bedwell but I suppose you figured that out.


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## The Bear (7 Oct 2009)

Wonderful stuff - right up my street. A brochure like that would look amateurish today- but it didn't matter did it? I've got an old Hetchins catalogue somewhere, but quite where is another question!
When I worked in Rorys there were still a few older bits and bobs laying around - Airlite hubs etc. Where was the workshop when you worked there?


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## normgow (8 Oct 2009)

If I remember correctly there were four frames available; "Cadet" ,"DB Special " (Dave Bedwell) , "Contessa" and another whose name is lost in the mists of time.
For a long time Bob Tregonning worked in the North Street , Romford shop. Bob was a Geordie who somehow had found his way south to Essex, I don't know his story but I'm sure somebody out there does. Bob was tragically run down and killed on the Southend Road near the Moby Dick roundabout / junction Whalebone Lane some time in the mid -sixties. For a while there were two Bob Tregonning Memorial road races organised, one in Essex by the Easterly R.C and the other in the North East by the Early Birds C.C .
After Bob's death Rory spent most of his time in the Romford shop.
Also working there as mechanics were Roger Joseph and Tony Ashton both Romford R.C members.
The independent team of Dave Bedwell, Ron Pannell, Jim Grieves and Bob Newell were kitted out in khaki coloured tracksuits and acquired the name "the paras". They rode Rory O'Brien frames equipped, as were most British independents of that time, with Williams chainsets , Cyclo Benelux gears, Airlite hubs and GB brakes bars and stems.
The chainsets were the first aluminium cotterless model Williams had produced, they had a five pin crank attaching the outer chainring with the inner bolting directly onto that ; the same principle as the Stronglight 49D crank and TA Criterium Rings.
The GB brakes were either the "Synchron" model based on the German Altenburger or the earlier "Coureur" model. The centre pull model introduced in the late fifties seemed to have fallen out of favour by then. Most of the team used the Benelux parallelogram rear gear mechanism but Dave Bedwell preferred the old style compressed spring type (Mk. VII) which he used up until the end of his career.
I don't know what tyres they used but if anyone has copies of "Sporting Cyclist" of that era the advertisements of various team sponsors often listed the equipment used.


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## limey (8 Oct 2009)

Now we are really getting into details!!

The Manor Park shop was very much like the one at Romford and about the same size. The front half was showroom, then the counter, a dividing wall with accessories hanging, and behind the workshop, which was never very tidy and full of things "that might be useful one day" but rarely were. A back door led to an outside loo.

I think I am now beginning to get a picture of the arrangements, Rory was close to Les and Ken was close to Vic. I think Ken probably chanelled work to Vic, and the specials Rory passed to Les. I have in the last 48 hours got some additional infos and can now confirm I never went to Les' workshop in Clapton. It can only have been Vic's workshop that I visited.

Les died of cancer in 1969 and did very little work in his last two years.

Last night on the internet I typed Les Ephgrave in the search box (don't know why I didn't before) and up came a lot of sites. I've not had time to examine closely but you will probably have fits looking at;
www.classicrendezvous.com and www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders 
Look carefully at Condor, Paris/Rensch and Hetchins. Out of the world lugwork. All the history is there.

Now I have to answer Normgow's message.


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## limey (9 Oct 2009)

There were 4 frames as you say, the fourth was the "championship" and the most expensive.

I rode for Romford R.C. in 1964/5/6 but don't remember the two names you mention (or anyone else). The club was very loose in structure and members were not specially friendly. If I remember correctly we were sponsored by Duo-Matic, a twin tub washing m/c, and had Duomatic on our outfits. This was problem for me because I was sponsored by Rory O'Brien as well but without any Rory clothes to wear..... The compromise was that I raced with the Romford maillot (plain blue with the italian flag in the middle of the chest) and without any sponsor markings.

My road bike was a Rory Championship frame, Mafac centre pull brakes, Cinelli Giro d'Italia bars and stem, Unica Nitor saddle, Campag cotterless chainset with either 46/52 or 42/52 rings depending on the circuit. For T.T.s I used 48/52. Leotard flat pedals, Campag derailleurs with the changers on the handlebar ends. Wheels were Campag hubs, small flange for road and large flange for TTs. Mavic rims and Pirelli legerissimo tubulars. A 5 speed cassette 14,15,16,18,21 set up. Have no idea what all this weighed but it was pretty well the best you could get for the time.


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## normgow (9 Oct 2009)

Of course the "Championship" was the top model , my memory must be worse than I feared.
I had better come clean at this point and admit that until 1973 I always rode Kenistons frames, not getting my first Rory until Kenistons withdrew from the lightweight business. As you mentioned in an earlier post , by that time the magic seemed to have faded and my frame was never really that good . The bottom bracket seemed to be too far to the right but after I filed down the right hand face ,fitted a single Campag axle and knocked a depression in the right hand chainstay to prevent the inner chainring rubbing on it everything seemed to work OK. I raced on it all through the 1974 season including a spell in Normandy with the U.V.Caen and had no problems with the bike just the normal ones with legs,lungs and blue spots in front of the eyes.
It was Campag Record equipped except for Shimano Dura Ace brakes, I can't rember why I had those. Chainrings were 52/42 with 14-19 or 13-18 sprockets although if there were any big hills (unlike Essex) I had to fit something with more teeth.
I still have this bike in the loft above my garage but the tubulars are in a sorry state and don't look as though they would hold any pressure for long.


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## TWO STAGE (12 Oct 2009)

Just found this website by accident---unfortunately i had an accident in 1958 aged 20 which brought my cycling career to an end. Still feel very envious when i see club cyclists passing by. 
As a result of my crunch--i went into swimming, walking and aviation. Have had my pilots licence for some 35 years and own a share in a PA28-180. 
However i lived in romford in the fifties and was a member of the now defunked ? romford wheelers. I remember seeing dave bedwell in action--what a powerhouse t he was. 
I was one of the young lads who met at kenistons--saw mitch years later in a shop--beleive around southend.
My frame was a jim whittaker--as far as i know jim built the frames himself.
I remember brian bates, ken craven, vic gibbons. --vic gibbons has probably passed on but brian and ken may still be around.
When in the RAF i went out with john woodburn a couple of times--but after 100 yards he"d gone.
Intewresting to read some of vthe threads--feel a bit sad that i had to give it up but have never lost an interest


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## limey (14 Oct 2009)

I remember the name Ken Craven, never knew him personally, but he seemed to win most of the local TTs no matter the distance 25, 50, 100 and even 12 hours.

Strange how all these names are popping up 40-45 years later!


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## The Bear (20 Oct 2009)

I knew Vic Gibbons very well from my years in the Brentwood RC. Vic and his wife Peggy were a lovely couple. Vic was coming up 50 when I started racing and he was still club champion year after year - complete with his Sturmey Archer hub gear! One thing I remember about Vic was that he was so young at heart - if my memory is correct he called one of his bikes "Led Zeppelin". In those hairy 70s days that made Vic pretty cool in our eyes. That and the fact that he thrashed us all in our weekly time-trials!


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## normgow (20 Oct 2009)

I never met Vic Gibbons nor Ken Craven although I rode in a couple of time trials which he won (he nearly always won).
However I remember the Brentwood R.C especially their 100 mile reliabilty trial which they organised each year in February, nowadays this would no doubt be called a "sportive" , a hundred mile burn-up might be a better description. It started at Gallows corner ,headed a short way down the Southend Road before turning left up Warley hill to Brentwood. Then out into the Essex countryside to Ongar, Dunmow,Braintree, Marks Tey and then Maldon where there was a thirty minute stop. Just enough time to answer the call of nature , grab a quick eat and drink and for tired legs to seize up completely, then creaking and groaning head out of Maldon toward Rayleigh weir, cross the Southend Road (A127) down to the Old Southend Road (A13) up Bread and Cheese hill ,then Laindon Hill and back to finish somewhere around the back of Upminster.
If you survived this you were generally set up for the rest of the season.
One year , it may have been 1962 or 1963, I remember a removal lorry turning up at the start and when the rear doors were opened what seemed like half the bike racing population of West London complete with bikes being disgorged from its interior.
An uncomfortable way to get from there to Essex but the lorry was probably stolen so was low cost travel compared to the team buses used by today's stars.


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## limey (20 Oct 2009)

I remember the event but not all the details like Normgow. Took place around March April as I remember as an early season shakedown before things got serious. There was another that started at Orpington and went via Redhill Reigate Westerham Dorking (not necessarily in that order) about the same time. Good stuff but usually pretty chilly as well.

We have similar events today here in the south of France called "brevets", basically you have to cover a distance, typically 100-130Kms, within a fixed time, typically about 5 hours. Everyone starts together, typically a peleton of 100-120 riders, and the first hour or so is calm and social before hostilities commence. The first finishers average around 32km/h. The first event in 2010 is a tour of the Camargue at the beginning of March if anyone is intersted. I have 4 brevets programmed before the first cyclosportif in May. Be great if we could have an Essex get together.


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## Goldfang (21 Oct 2009)

Seem to recall from my club days in Essex, if you seny a frame to Rorys to be resprayed/rechromed/refurbished, unless you specified otherwise,it would come back with Rory o Brian transfers, head badge etc. It mat be that some of their frames may not be what they seem?
Regards, Goldfang.


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## normgow (22 Oct 2009)

What you shouldn't forget is that these frames were made in a workshop which was probably producing frames for several other customers. They were then sprayed in whatever colour was requested and the appropriate transfers applied.
Really whether you had name X,Y or Z on the down tube it didn't make any difference as they were all basically the same.
This is even more true today with the vast majority of frames being made in Taiwan with just different names added.
It just reinforces what Sean Kelly once said that the best bike is the one you're paid to ride.


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## griffks (6 Nov 2009)

having read these most informative posts about Rory O'Brien frames and nostalgic reminiscences of the company can anyone enlighten me if they had a frame numbering sequence that would help date one of their frames?


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## pubrunner (6 Nov 2009)

Hi griffks and welcome to the forum.

I'm pretty certain that they wouldn't have had a frame numbering sequence - because so many different makers built for Rory O'Brien.
If you have a Rory O'Brien frame, I'd love to see a pic of it. My Rory O'Brien frame had a grease nipple on the crank which to my knowledge is rare on bikes after the early 60s. 

One way of finding an approximate date is to look at the style of the frame; at one stage there were four frames available; "Cadet" ,"DB Special " (Dave Bedwell), "Contessa" and "Championship". (Mine was a Championship frame).

I did have a copy of the Rory O'Brien 'catalogue' listing these models, but sadly, I passed it on with the bike.

IF you have an O'Brien frame and IF you want it dating, pm me and I'll give you the email address of someone who may be able to help you. He provided me with my copy of the O'Brien catalogue - which looks very crudely produced by the standards of today.

Best of luck with finding out more.


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## limey (6 Nov 2009)

pubrunners got it right, there was no logical numbering system for the reasons he states. If you can post a photo of the frame then some of the wise old men from that period, like me, can take a guess. I have the crude mid 60s catalogue here in my files.


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## griffks (6 Nov 2009)

.....will take some pics this weekend, I hope to build up with compatible componentry over the winter


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## raindog (7 Nov 2009)

When I stripped my dad's old frame for painting, I couldn't find a number stamped on it anywhere.


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## limey (7 Nov 2009)

....my eyes are dim, I cannot see......
....must be the wine, from around here....


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## normgow (17 Nov 2009)

Rory used to like adding little witticisms to the hand-written price tags for items of equipment in his shop window.
The first Campagnolo cotterless chainsets complete with bottom bracket axle, shells and bearings sold for the grand sum of twelve pounds which in 1960 was not an insignificant amount. On this Price tag was written "for nobs and barons only".
Perhaps a student of social history could tell us what the average wage was at that time.
These early cranks were of a much more generous cross-section than the models which came later, perhaps the engineers in Vicenza were playing safe and decided on this size to cover themselves. Also there was a cap which blanked off the inside end of the threaded pedal hole. This was later discontinued.
Later when I was able to afford Campag cranks I had two occasions to wish they had retained the old pattern , when my crank snapped near the pedal whilst out of the saddle , depositing me in the road . Both times it was the left hand crank.


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## The Bear (17 Nov 2009)

I can't recall ever seeing any Rory frames with numbers - but my Hetchins did. I also had a frame with a grease nipple on the BB, but I can't remember which to be honest.

Excellent thread this. Anybody remember Tony Phillips?


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## pubrunner (18 Nov 2009)

The Bear said:


> I can't recall ever seeing any Rory frames with numbers - but my Hetchins did. I also had a frame with a grease nipple on the BB, but I can't remember which to be honest. QUOTE]
> 
> My Rory O'Brien had a grease nipple on the BB. Wish that I'd had/got a Hetchins.


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## normgow (18 Nov 2009)

The lugs for Hetchins were prepared by Stan Broome who was a long time member of the Zeus R.C and later Havering C.C which was formed when the Zeus merged with the Romford Wheelers.
He was a stalwart of the Essex racing scene in the fifties and sixties ,later organising numerous events as well working as a commissaire.


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## limey (18 Nov 2009)

Hi Bear, I don't remember Tony Philips at all. Can you give a few clues that might jog the memory.

Hi Normgow. Remember Stan Broome well enough. In fact just found his signature on my 1964 and 1965 BCF Licences when I competed in the Zeus and Essex CRC road races, 6th and 1st respectively. As commissaires went he was kind off likable but didn't like me cutting corners, riding the wrong side of the road, or going over white lines! "Do that one more time and you're out of the race" . The other commissaire we saw frequently was J. Walker. Remember him?
View attachment 4776
If I've done this right his signature is on the attachment as well.


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## The Bear (21 Nov 2009)

Tony Phillips is in that photo of Rory and Dave Bedwell at a grass track meet. 

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/davebedwell.jpg

Tony was still a regular customer in Rory's when I worked there. He was a lovely fellow and amused me because although in his 50s? by then he still bought all the latest pop sounds like a teenager. However knowing what a dipstick I can be at times, all that's really need now is for somebody to say "No that wasn't Tony Phillips, that was.... "

I think by the late 70s, Stan Broome was in the Becontree?

I had this email from a mate of mine this week, a well known Essex hardman - and somebody who knows the Essex /East End scene better than me. 
_"Vic (Edwards) and Cliff (Shrubb) were both builders from their youth, both worked in places like Claud Butler long before they left school, and the two best builders I knew, in my opinion they made better frames than Jack (Denny), although they didn’t usually bother with the finicky lugs. _
_Cliff used to work behind Geoffrey Butlers, and built those track bikes used by John Nicholson, Tony Doyle etc. He later moved to behind Allins shop also in Croydon, and made frames with his own name. In fact he does sometimes still build frames in his garage when he can be forced into it. He works in Pearsons now a few days a week…"_


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## limey (22 Nov 2009)

Tony Philips: still doesn't ring any bells. He was probably a regular in the Romford shop but not at Manor Park. Was he in any club? Did he race?


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## normgow (12 Jan 2010)

A late reply to Limey.
I certainly remember Jim Walker , I think he was in the Harold hill CC. When I was a junior (1963-4) it was the fashion of the time to wear trade team racing caps in contravention of some archaic BCF rule (no doubt a dinosaur from the NCU), this would infuriate Jim and on one occasion when he was officiating he drove up alongside the bunch to confiscate a Weils/Groene Leeuw cap I had on . 
Another commisaire of that period was Reub Smith who nearly always appeared at the races on the Little Waltham circuit organised by the Essex Roads CC and Leyton Camp CC. I believe he was a stalwart of the BLRC but I never knew him well.
Ron Iveson of the Basildon CC did a lot of work in the Essex division organising and officiating at races and was always ready with an encouraging word for those who weren't too successful but that he knew had tried their best.
There was Terry Anderson of the Hainault RC and Becontree Wheelers, Frank O'Flaherty of the Crest CC plus several more whose names don't spring readily to mind. Maybe this afternoon a few more will occur to me.
This is probably as good a place as any to express thanks to all those people who were involved in organising and officiating races, marshals , bike checkers and the many who gave of their time and efforts to provide something for young lads which with hindsight was priceless.
At the time I took it all for granted so if it's not too late - Thankyou all.


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## normgow (8 Feb 2010)

Have just remembered that Bryan Wiltcher rode as an independent for Rory O'Brien around 1963 or 64. Bryan, riding then for Zeus RC, won the BBAR in 1959 and 1960 breaking comp. record for 50 miles and was one of the first people to push really big gears contradicting the accepted wisdom of the day which encouraged the fast pedalling of moderate ratios, usually fixed wheels. In 1960 he won the Bath Road 100 which at that time was the Blue Riband event of british time trialling. In 1961 he turned independent and rode for Condor-Mackeson.


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## griffks (22 Apr 2010)

*Rory O'Brien*

not too sure of exact age but have recently restored this example from the 1970's, hope it is of interest to the thread


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## raindog (23 Apr 2010)

Very, very nice.
Do you ride it, or is it just a piece of sculpture?
I've given up on ever using mine - it just hangs on the wall looking pretty. 

amazing how this thread just keeps going and going.....


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## pubrunner (23 Apr 2010)

raindog said:


> *amazing how this thread just keeps going and going*.....



Yes, but sadly, Peanut & I were slated for suggesting that we might have a sub-section for older bikes. '**** off' to Retro Bikes was the attitude of many. 

So as far as older bikes are concerned, that's just what I've done. Shame though, that this forum couldn't be a little more inclusive.


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## pubrunner (23 Apr 2010)

griffks said:


> not too sure of exact age but have recently restored this example from the 1970's, hope it is of interest to the thread



Very interesting to me, at any rate. To my eyes, it is a most attractive and 'classy' looking bike. I'm extremely envious !


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## threebikesmcginty (23 Apr 2010)

griffks said:


> not too sure of exact age but have recently restored this example from the 1970's, hope it is of interest to the thread



That is a lovely bike!


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## griffks (23 Apr 2010)

raindog said:


> Very, very nice.
> Do you ride it, or is it just a piece of sculpture?
> I've given up on ever using mine - it just hangs on the wall looking pretty.
> 
> amazing how this thread just keeps going and going.....



.....had it resprayed a short while ago by Mario Vaz and it's been my everyday commuter for the last few months but I must confess to giving it a bit of a clean before the photo was taken, even the 27"x 1" tyres are original but will change these once I can find a suitable set of replacements meanwhile they're holding up fine


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## raindog (24 Apr 2010)

pubrunner said:


> Yes, but sadly, Peanut & I were slated for suggesting that we might have a sub-section for older bikes. '**** off' to Retro Bikes was the attitude of many.
> 
> So as far as older bikes are concerned, that's just what I've done. Shame though, that this forum couldn't be a little more inclusive.


I expect admin had their reasons but it's difficult to see what harm another sub-section would've done. There's alot of snobism and elitism around bikes. Personally I'm interested in any bikes, from old co-op delivery bikes right up to the latest full carbon technology, but maybe I'm just weird. 

What forum do you use for older bikes then? I wouldn't mind having a look.


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## raindog (24 Apr 2010)

griffks said:


> .....had it resprayed a short while ago by Mario Vaz and it's been my everyday commuter for the last few months


Commuting on that - lucky man.


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## The Bear (24 Apr 2010)

griffks said:


> not too sure of exact age but have recently restored this example from the 1970's, hope it is of interest to the thread



Lovely machine that - classic 70s style, and in my opinion when bikes were at their most stylish.


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## normgow (27 Apr 2010)

A very nice looking bike *Griffks* and good to know thatyou are still riding it regularly.
My Rory from 1974 was later resprayed and no longer bears the original transfers but here is a picture nevertheless. I never ride it as I'm a bit wary of things breaking, cranks, bars etc. so just wheel it out now and then into the daylight. The tubulars are pretty well finished anyway so I would need to invest in new ones plus I don't have shoes with shoeplates for toeclips.


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## normgow (27 Apr 2010)

Sorry about the picture, I seem to have screwed up again. Will try to post it later.


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## raindog (27 Apr 2010)

normgow said:


> The tubulars are pretty well finished anyway so I would need to invest in new ones plus I don't have shoes with shoeplates for toeclips.


That's the problem I have with mine. I suppose I could adapt some modern wheels for it, but then I feel it wouldn't be the same bike at all.


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## BigSteev (27 Apr 2010)

pubrunner said:


> Yes, but sadly, Peanut & I were slated for suggesting that we might have a sub-section for older bikes. '**** off' to Retro Bikes was the attitude of many.



That's a real shame. I have to say that this is the most interesting thread I've read on CC in quite a while so thanks to all the contributors.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2010)

The demise of the local dealer with his own brand frames is a bit of a shame really, the variety of colour schemes and styles on display wherever cyclists gathered was always worth a look. Now any event seems to be flooded with Treks and Giants and their like, all looking the same.

I noticed last time I was up in London ('03) EG Bates in Plaistow was closing due to retirement. I did not have time to pop in and see Alan Bates to wish him well, but I had been a customer there since I was about 14 and it was a great shop and very helpful. I even had one of their frames for a while. Looking on streetview the shop now sells white goods


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## pubrunner (28 Apr 2010)

raindog said:


> I* expect admin had their reasons* but it's difficult to see what harm another sub-section would've done. There's alot of snobism and elitism around bikes. Personally I'm interested in any bikes, from old co-op delivery bikes right up to the latest full carbon technology, but maybe I'm just weird.
> 
> *What forum do you use for older bikes then?* I wouldn't mind having a look.



I was told that there wasn't enough interest - 'too specialised'. How can it be too specialised ? Surely, there must be many of us still owning old steel-framed bikes ? 

Actually, I can afford *only* steel-framed bikes. I've four (FW Evans, Ellis Briggs, Harrods Special & Major Nichols) - bought for a grand total of about £400 ! That's affordable cycling for you ! 

I start up a thread on a rather obscure bike (Rory O'Brien) and there have been nearly *100* responses - yes, that would be not enough interest ! 

For older bikes, I go to Retro Bike, CTC and Bike Radar.


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## raindog (28 Apr 2010)

pubrunner said:


> For older bikes, I go to Retro Bike, CTC and Bike Radar.


cheers - I'll check them out.


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## normgow (30 Apr 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> The demise of the local dealer with his own brand frames is a bit of a shame really, the variety of colour schemes and styles on display wherever cyclists gathered was always worth a look. Now any event seems to be flooded with Treks and Giants and their like, all looking the same.



This makes me think of what the railways in Britain prior to the 1923 Grouping must have looked like, with each company having its own livery and style of locomotives, coaches and buildings. Sometimes on station buildings you can still find a few traces of those long lost days; on the Essex end of the London Central Line for example, where the line runs above ground the GER for Great Eastern Railway can be seen entwined in the wrought iron work on the stancions supporting the platform canopies.
I'm sure that railway enthusiasts up and down the country know of lots more similar examples.


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## normgow (9 May 2010)

normgow said:


> Sorry about the picture, I seem to have screwed up again. Will try to post it later.



I hope it works this time.


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## john5339 (15 Jun 2010)

I have a Rory O Brien bike - Columbus slx frame and campag chorus 8 speed group. I had Rory's shop in North Street build it in 1996. Back then I chose to support "local" bike shops rather than on-line retailers, but I must admit that the frame was not particularly well prepared. Price was also top-end. I found the guys in the shop generally not very helpful and stopped going in shortly after I got the bike. Not surprised when I heard they had shut up shop. Still got the bike today, and does well as my winter ride.


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## stevienix (31 Oct 2010)

hi just a quickie about Dave Bedwell
yes he did build wheels but this was just a hobby for him 
yes he was sponsored by rory 
my wife did have his bike built by rory but unfortunately her ex-husband threw it away !! we were both quiet anoyed as you can imagine 
my self i never had the got to meet Dave but sounds like an amazing guy !!!
sadly missed by my wife as she is his daughter .....


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## The Bear (31 Oct 2010)

Sorry I haven't posted for a while. Bullet style posting today.

Dave Bedwell is still a figure of legend in some circles.

I had an email message on here from a relative of Vic Gibbons about his legendary old bike "Led Zeppelin".

What's happened to the pictures folks?


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## raindog (1 Nov 2010)

stevienix said:


> my wife did have his bike built by rory but unfortunately her ex-husband threw it away !!


That's really sad.
I often wonder how many interesting bikes get trashed because people simply don't understand what they are.


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## The Bear (4 Nov 2010)

Some nice vintage pics here of Essex riders, including Vic Gibbons.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/gallery5.html


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## NORTHERN CHIEF (12 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here.
> 
> I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth. It's got a really nice Stronglight headset with a 'toothed' adjusting system. Anyroad, here's a picture of the frame. (if I can manage it, that is)
> Now I've joined, I may as well make the effort to join in on the rest of the forum, but it'll take a while for me to explore it.




Hi, I joined this discussion a while back and since then have not added any input.
I now have a few photos you might find of interest, they show the head transfer just after I had removed the top layer of paint. This shows a great piece of Rory history. I say this because I hav`nt seen another.
Also the upright from the saddle had this very faded motive, unsure what was on it. 
The only other transfer was a long signiture in red on the downtube, but not readable on the black rusty frame.
I have since aquired a set of decals from lloyds in Wales, as well as a set of block capitals (RORY OBRIEN).
Anyone seen any of these transfers?


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## pubrunner (13 Dec 2010)

NORTHERN CHIEF said:


> I have since aquired a set of decals from lloyds in Wales, as well as a set of block capitals (RORY OBRIEN).
> Anyone seen any of these transfers?



My Rory O'Brien had the block capital decals, but I've never seen the other type with the signature.

That is a very rare bike that you have !


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## Decani (14 Dec 2010)

I just want to add my little bit for what it's worth. My uncle's name was John Adlington and he bought Rory O'Briens' business in North Street, Romford in the 1980s. John was a really keen cyclist and he was proud to own the business, but unfortunately he died of cancer and the business closed. I am just wondering if anyone knew John?


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## raindog (15 Dec 2010)

NORTHERN CHIEF said:


> Hi, I joined this discussion a while back and since then have not added any input.
> I now have a few photos you might find of interest, they show the head transfer just after I had removed the top layer of paint. This shows a great piece of Rory history. I say this because I hav`nt seen another.
> Also the upright from the saddle had this very faded motive, unsure what was on it.
> The only other transfer was a long signiture in red on the downtube, but not readable on the black rusty frame.
> ...


The downtube name in script sounds like the one that was on my dad's frame except it was in gold. You can still get Rory transfers but only the block capitals one, and I don't think it would look right on the frame I've got. I'll probably end up just putting two of the small ones on the seat tube and the head tube. I expect my frame had the same transfers as in your pics, but I believe the only ones available now are like this.


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## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

For anyone looking for a Rory O'Brien frame, there is one listed here - only £40* ono*.

It looks (to my eyes) like a fifties or sixties frame - it _*might*_ be good tubing - difficult to tell from the pic.

Oh yes, it has Rory O'Brien decals that I've not seen before - perhaps the same as Raindog has shown in the above posting.

(It is towards the bottom of the page, so you'll have to scroll down).

*My link*


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## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> *amazing how this thread just keeps going and going.....
> *





pubrunner said:


> Yes, but sadly, Peanut & I were slated for suggesting that we might have a sub-section for older bikes. '**** off' to Retro Bikes was the attitude of many.





BigSteev said:


> That's a real shame. I have to say that* this is the most interesting thread* I've read on CC in quite a while so thanks to all the contributors.



I was informed that there *'wouldn't be enough interest'* for a sub-section for older bikes.

. . . . . . . meanwhile, this topic alone (*of only 8 pages*), has had *13,257* viewings . . . that'd be 'not enough interest'  - not as if they got here by chance. The number of viewings *on this single topic*, is considerably more than the entire viewings on some of other sections. 

Who'd have thought that there'd be so much interest in Rory O'Brien - I wonder how many bikes he sold ?


----------



## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

pubrunner said:


> For anyone looking for a Rory O'Brien frame, there is one listed here - only £40* ono*.
> 
> It looks (to my eyes) like a fifties or sixties frame - it _*might*_ be good tubing - difficult to tell from the pic.
> 
> ...



I've emailed the seller, he tells me that he _*might *_put up some more pics of the frame soon; by the way, he mentioned that the price for the frame does not include posting. P&P would be 'no more than £15'.


----------



## raindog (17 Dec 2010)

That Ron Cooper looks the business.


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## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> That Ron Cooper looks the business.



It certainly does, if you were to buy that frame and get it finished, you'd be lucky to do it for less than he's selling it for. I'd be happy to own any of the bikes that he's selling.

Shame he's not provided more info on the O'Brien - I wonder how old it is - and what's the tubing ?

The bike that Northern Chief has looks *very* interesting; again, I wonder what age it is - I've never seen those decals before.

How's your own O'Brien looking, Raindog ? I love the look of that frame. In fact, not too long ago, I decided to get myself a split-tube frame (see below) - not as 'classy' as yours though.


----------



## Firestorm (17 Dec 2010)

Excellent thread and , tbh, the type of thing I signed up on here for.

My Dad had a Rory in the 50's , Mum had a curly stay Hetchins. Both were very active in the East london / essex racing scene of the 50's . Vic Gibbons has been mentioned in this thread a lot, Dad talks of him. 

Dad was in the Penguin , Mum the Bucaneers (later became Redbridge) when they met, Dad later joined the Buccs

Mums parents were in University CC and Roslyn Ladies.

In the 60's we all used to marshall the TT's and support one particular Rider in the 12's and 24's (Pete Reeve) in the days when Nim Carline used to dominate.


----------



## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

I've just seen an interesting clip on YouTube - a guy has found a Rory O'Brien at his local tip.:

*My link*

Sadly, our local re-cycling centre no longer allows the acquisition of bikes/frames - for the price of a few quid. If stuff goes into the skip, it has to stay there. The Council workers there, are as much upset as anyone about this. It was a 'win win' situation all round. They made a few bob out of it and a bike or frame could be put back into use.


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## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

Firestorm said:


> My Dad had a Rory in the 50's



An O'Brien of that period, would almost certainly have been made by Ephgraves - very sought-after bikes and highly rated.


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## Firestorm (17 Dec 2010)

pubrunner said:


> An O'Brien of that period, would almost certainly have been made by Ephgraves - very sought-after bikes and highly rated.




I'll have a chat with him about his old bikes next time I see him, Unfortunately, lets just say, the old fella's memory isn't what it used to be


----------



## raindog (17 Dec 2010)

pubrunner said:


> Sadly, our local re-cycling centre no longer allows the acquisition of bikes/frames - for the price of a few quid. If stuff goes into the skip, it has to stay there. The Council workers there, are as much upset as anyone about this. It was a 'win win' situation all round. They made a few bob out of it and a bike or frame could be put back into use.


How bloody sad is that? I mean, what's the reason? That's really a reflection of the ignorant, stupid, consumer society we all live in these days. Makes me mad, so it does. Imagine how much other usefull stuff, not just bikes, must get destroyed when it could be recycled and used again.

The bike in the vid shows yet another type of transfer with Rory in script and O'Brien in blocks! Looks like a very nice frame.

My Rory? It's still hanging on the wall looking pretty. All I need is a pair of tubs and I can ride it again. I'll get round to it some time.

Firestorm - it would be great if you could post about some of your dad's memories, and even put some photos up, if he has any.


----------



## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> How bloody sad is that? I mean, what's the reason? That's really a reflection of the ignorant, stupid, consumer society we all live in these days. *Makes me mad, so it does*. Imagine how much other usefull stuff, not just bikes, must get destroyed when it could be recycled and used again.



Yes, you could see a curly Hetchins in a skip, and be unable to retrieve it - all *very* frustrating !.



raindog said:


> The bike in the vid shows yet another type of transfer with Rory in script and O'Brien in blocks! Looks like a very nice frame.



I think that it will be a bike from the 80s - yes, it does look a nice frame.



raindog said:


> Firestorm - it would be great if you could post about some of your dad's memories, and even put some photos up, if he has any.



+1

It is important (in my opinion) to glean such info. whilst it is still available; your Dad might be surprised to know that over 13,000 visits have been made to this thread on Rory O'Brien, tell him to get his thinking hat on and make some notes. If he has any pics that could be scanned, I'd be very pleased to see them on this thread. 

Going OT, RainDog, in which part of France are you ? Have you seen any Geliano bikes like the one that I have ? They were made in Argent-sur-Sauldre - which I believe is about 90 minutes south of Paris.


----------



## Firestorm (17 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> Firestorm - it would be great if you could post about some of your dad's memories, and even put some photos up, if he has any.




I'll scrounge some photos when I am round there next.

Dad was fairly good, He won the 1954 Eastern Counties 5 M track title and around that time was leading The Nationals by half a lap with 2 to go when he shed a tub, When I was younger he had made the odd comment about not making the Olympics because he wasn't in national service so I always had an idea at the back of my mind that he was useful but he didn't talk a lot about it.

A couple of years ago it was my 50th birthday, i got into a conversation with him and asked him how good he actually was, and told him that he was old enough now not to be too modest , Could you have made the Olympics I added,

Well , he said, lets just say that on the day the announced the team for the games, '56 I believe, One of the riders named (I forget who he said it was) was racing at Herne Hill. They announced over the Tannoy that he had been picked for the Olympics and he did a lap of honour, 3 hours later he came 2nd...he had a wry smile on his face at this point and I had to ask "You were first I presume" to which he replied "too bloody right I was, F****** stuffed 'im"

I won a Star letter in my Childrens comic (Sparky C 1967) for a discription of a 24 hour race where we were assisting Pete Reeve, sleeping in the back of the old Anglia estate and passing up bottled of lemon tea and Creamed Rice throughout the night, 

As I have said in the previous post, I come from a family of Racers, There are family medals from two Grandparents and both my Parents and my brother Raced a bit in the 80's and 90's . In my youth I used to ride a lot and was going to Join theBuccs when I reached 14 , but I got asthma when I was 13 and couldn't exercise over distance for years after that , which combined ith my parents leaving the club soon after the merger with the Rapier in '72 curtailed my interest .


----------



## Firestorm (17 Dec 2010)

he has got a rather good story about hurtling down a hill on a tandem (Mum on the back) desperately trying to get to the level crossing before the gates shut ! and one about bending his alloy pump bluemels (?) over a dogs head .....


----------



## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

Firestorm said:


> Dad was fairly good,



Masterly understatement !



Firestorm said:


> A couple of years ago it was my 50th birthday, i got into a conversation with him and asked him how good he actually was, and told him that he was old enough now not to be too modest , Could you have made the Olympics I added,
> 
> Well , he said, lets just say that on the day the announced the team for the games, '56 I believe, One of the riders named (I forget who he said it was) was racing at Herne Hill. They announced over the Tannoy that he had been picked for the Olympics and he did a lap of honour, 3 hours later he came 2nd...he had a wry smile on his face at this point and I had to ask "You were first I presume" to which he replied *"too bloody right I was, F****** stuffed 'im"
> *



Brilliant !!!   He sounds a 'character', does your Dad !



Firestorm said:


> I'll scrounge some photos when I am round there next.



That'd be very interesting !


----------



## raindog (17 Dec 2010)

pubrunner said:


> Going OT, RainDog, in which part of France are you ? Have you seen any Geliano bikes like the one that I have ? They were made in Argent-sur-Sauldre - which I believe is about 90 minutes south of Paris.


I'm 800ks from Paris.
Never even heard of them before and I assumed they were Italian but when you posted the pics I googled them and found they were indeed French. They seem to specialise in ultra short wheel bases like yours. 







Another French make that do split down tubes is Mecacycle.


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## pubrunner (17 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> The downtube name in script sounds like the one that was on my dad's frame except it was in gold. You can still get Rory transfers but only the block capitals one, and I don't think it would look right on the frame I've got. I'll probably end up just putting two of the small ones on the seat tube and the head tube. I expect my frame had the same transfers as in your pics, but I believe the only ones available now are like this.


. 

There are Rory O'Brien transfers currently available on the 'Bay - are these an original design and if so, for what age/era bike ?

I'm so tempted to get another O'Brien - they seem to be very popular at the moment !


----------



## pubrunner (20 Dec 2010)

threebikesmcginty said:


> That is a lovely bike!



There are some cracking bikes on this site - including a few Rory O'Briens. (I'd love a stable of bikes like this) 

http://www.essexroadscyclingclub.com/pages/members/2007JohnYatesBikes.html


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## Firestorm (20 Dec 2010)

pubrunner said:


> There are some cracking bikes on this site - including a few Rory O'Briens. (I'd love a stable of bikes like this)
> 
> http://www.essexroad...YatesBikes.html





http://www.essexroadscyclingclub.com/pages/history/AlanGordinephotos.html

essex roads was my brothers old club


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## The Bear (29 Dec 2010)

raindog said:


> The bike in the vid shows yet another type of transfer with Rory in script and O'Brien in blocks! Looks like a very nice frame.



Those transfers were the last known type I think - from the 80s - that would be right with that frame and the gear on it. The square type of transfers had a long run through the 60s and 70s, the silly space age ones went from about 1979-82? I didn't like those space age ones - they didn't look right at all.


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## Smokin Joe (4 Jan 2011)

I am fairly sure that the last Rory's had outline graphics, I can't remember whether the script on the downtube was just R O'B or R O'Brien, I think it was the former. I do remember thinking it looked poor compared to previous types.


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## pubrunner (4 Jan 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> I am fairly sure that *the last Rory's* had outline graphics, I can't remember whether the script on the downtube was just R O'B or R O'Brien, I think it was the former. I do remember thinking it looked poor compared to previous types.



When do you reckon the last Rory's were made ?

Out of interest, were the frames always steel ?


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## Smokin Joe (12 Jan 2011)

pubrunner said:


> When do you reckon the last Rory's were made ?
> 
> Out of interest, were the frames always steel ?


Rory O Brien closed within the last five years and sold frames under their own name up to then. The last time I was in the shop, about ten years ago they had a range of aluminium models on display. I don't know if they ever got into carbon fibre, I had moved away before they became commonplace. I would presume they did as they always kept up to date.


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## pubrunner (29 Jan 2011)

Anyone looking for a Rory O'Brien ?

There's one for sale here, on Ebay . . .

My link


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## pubrunner (2 Feb 2011)

pubrunner said:


> Anyone looking for a Rory O'Brien ?
> 
> There's one for sale here, on Ebay . . .
> 
> My link



Another nice frame for sale :

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ME:B:SS:GB:1123 

The head transfer isn't one that I've seen previously.


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## pubrunner (3 Feb 2011)

A more recent (c. 1989) Rory O'Brien built in 531C is being sold by Hilary Stone for £165.

http://hilarystone.com/frameset2.html 

Now nearly *15,000* views on this topic !!!


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## Firestorm (15 Feb 2011)

Its my Dads 80th Birthday this weekend, I am hoping (if I can get the dongle to work) to show him the pics and this thread whilst i am up there.

I will try and get a load of pics scanned too.

Just out of interest, does the name Crowe ring any bells with the older posters on here ?


----------



## pubrunner (24 Feb 2011)

Firestorm said:


> *Its my Dads 80th Birthday this weekend*, I am hoping (if I can get the dongle to work) *to show him the pics and this thread* whilst i am up there.
> 
> I will try and get a load of pics scanned too.
> 
> Just out of interest, does the name Crowe ring any bells with the older posters on here ?



How did your Dad's birthday go ? It was also my Mum's 80th that weekend.

Has he seen this thread and can he add anything to it ? If he has seen it, I hope that he finds it interested. 

My initial query on Rory O'Brien a couple of years ago, has had so much in the way of personal memories added to it, that it could now be regarded as being the primary source of information on the topic. 

Thank you to all those who have responded.


----------



## pubrunner (25 Feb 2011)

NORTHERN CHIEF said:


> Hi, I joined this discussion a while back and since then have not added any input.
> I now have a few photos you might find of interest, they show the head transfer just after I had removed the top layer of paint. This shows a great piece of Rory history. I say this because I hav`nt seen another.
> Also the upright from the saddle had this very faded motive, unsure what was on it.
> *The only other transfer was a long signiture in red on the downtube*, but not readable on the black rusty frame.
> ...



Was it anything like the transfer on this (very early) Rory O'Brien - currently for sale on Ebay ?

My link


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## normgow (26 Feb 2011)

Firestorm said:


> Its my Dads 80th Birthday this weekend, I am hoping (if I can get the dongle to work) to show him the pics and this thread whilst i am up there.
> 
> I will try and get a load of pics scanned too.
> 
> Just out of interest, does the name Crowe ring any bells with the older posters on here ?




I don't recall anybody of that name. Are you talking about a member of the Essex Roads? I knew only a couple of them , the Carr brothers , Lee and Bill. Bill spent a lot of time racing in Belgium with a string of good placings to his credit, and this at a time when competion was fierce to put it mildly. Keith Butler was
also riding as an amateur there and after several wins signed a contract with St. Raphael-Geminiani. 

Practically all Essex Roaders used frames made by J.T.Braysher of Walthamstow although I seem to think Bill Carr used a Belgian frame when racing there, as british frames tended to shake themselves apart on the cobbles and generally rougher roads found in Belgium in the sixties. Ted Hookins was another Essex Roads star of that era, although I didn't know him but as a star-struck junior would admire him from a distance.

Getting back to Rory O'Brien, as has been mentioned in an earlier post, he was a keen yachtsman, especially on the Essex estuaries and coastal inlets.

He was also known to drive at high speed down to the South of France for short stays, whether he did any sailing there I don't know but there must be lots of people out there who knew him well and could fill in a lot of the spaces. 

He was also a lifetime member of the Easterley Road Club. Perhaps that rings a bell for a few people?


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## pubrunner (4 Mar 2011)

[attachment=2530:OBrien.jpg]


Smokin Joe said:


> Rory O Brien closed within the last five years and sold frames under their own name up to then. The last time I was in the shop, about ten years ago they had a range of *aluminium models* on display. I don't know if they ever got into carbon fibre, I had moved away before they became commonplace. I would presume they did as they always kept up to date.




'Smokin Joe' , this frame is currently for sale on Ebay - with Columbus 'Air' tubing - is that steel or aluminium ? I've never heard of that tubing before.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rory-OBrien-Lo-Pro-Aero-Frame-53cm-/180632821441?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a0e8e1ec1






I wonder which company would have made this frame ?


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## pubrunner (4 Mar 2011)

pubrunner said:


> Was it anything like the transfer on this (very early) Rory O'Brien - currently for sale on Ebay ?



Another early Rory O'Brien appears on Ebay . . . . . . . 

My link


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## Smokin Joe (7 Mar 2011)

pubrunner said:


> [attachment=2530:OBrien.jpg]
> 
> 
> 'Smokin Joe' , this frame is currently for sale on Ebay - with Columbus 'Air' tubing - is that steel or aluminium ? I've never heard of that tubing before.
> ...


Columbus Air Tubing is steel, introduced in the early nineties when the aero craze first hit. Note the shifters on top of the tube away from the wind. That would be a typical time trial frame from that period, all the fast men went for a forward sloping top tube then.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2011)

How do you run the cable from that central lever? Does it just drop down the side of the down tube? You'd think it would touch somewhere.


----------



## Firestorm (9 Mar 2011)

normgow said:


> I don't recall anybody of that name. Are you talking about a member of the Essex Roads? I knew only a couple of them , the Carr brothers , Lee and Bill. Bill spent a lot of time racing in Belgium with a string of good placings to his credit, and this at a time when competion was fierce to put it mildly. Keith Butler was
> also riding as an amateur there and after several wins signed a contract with St. Raphael-Geminiani.
> 
> Practically all Essex Roaders used frames made by J.T.Braysher of Walthamstow although I seem to think Bill Carr used a Belgian frame when racing there, as british frames tended to shake themselves apart on the cobbles and generally rougher roads found in Belgium in the sixties. Ted Hookins was another Essex Roads star of that era, although I didn't know him but as a star-struck junior would admire him from a distance.
> ...



Dad was in the Penguin and the Buccaneers along with Mum

My Brother was in Shaftesbury and Essex Roads

I got the pictures, just have to scan them, Dad really enjoyed looking at the pics on the British lightweights site. He seemed to have raced against quite a few of them too.

He is slowly struggling with his memory (Early stage Alzeheimers was the last diagnosis) but looking at the comments on this thread, the pics and seeing his name on the Eastern Counties website (5 mile track champion 1954) put a real spring in him


----------



## pubrunner (17 May 2011)

There is an older for Rory O'Brien sale on Ebay, with a starting price of £70 - might be a good buy for someone.

My link


----------



## pubrunner (31 May 2011)

A Rory O'Brien is currently for sale here :-

My link

Anyone any idea of how old it might be, or what tubing ? 

Looks a small frame.


----------



## pubrunner (31 May 2011)

And another, older O'Brien for sale here :-

My link


----------



## pubrunner (7 Jun 2011)

And yet another one for sale on Ebay; currently sitting at £50 with no bids.

Are the handlebars 'right' for this bike ?

My link


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## raindog (7 Jun 2011)

They look like track bars.

Christ on a bike, the guy was asking *750 quid *for that other one!!


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## pubrunner (13 Jul 2011)

Good old Rory O'Brien - there have now been over *20,000* viewings of this topic !!!


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## chrish0rn (23 Jul 2011)

Just had my Dad's bike from the 50's restored


----------



## biggs682 (27 Jul 2011)

i found thris thread whilst searching for info regarding a P & A Kenistons bike i have just brought but not picked up yet once i get it i will post some pics , be warned it wont be shiny !


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## topher1 (2 Oct 2011)

As someone further back up this thread observed... "amazing what you find when you tap into Google."

I have two Rory O'Brien cycles built I believe in the late 1960's. I was hoping someone could date them a little better than that. One was ordered for me by my father and I have no memory of when the other one appeared. Unfortunately the one I received appeared to not be clear coated so the transfers floated away after a couple of years. Was hoping I could get a pointer to replacements. The downtube transfer was in script and the head and seat tube transfers were different than those available from H Lloyd today.

The attached photo shows the Rory I am riding. The transfer photos come from the second Rory still waiting a bit of attention.

Regards and thanks in advance for any information.

Chris Edmonds
Batavia, IL USA


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## topher1 (2 Oct 2011)

A bit of history is attached. This shop is referenced elsewhere in this forum but I thought some folks might care to see this. Note the "true to .01" statement. I have a couple pairs of wheels from Rory's shop. 40+ years later they still spin fairly true.

Chris Edmonds
Batavia IL USA


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## raindog (2 Oct 2011)

topher1 said:


> The downtube transfer was in script and the head and seat tube transfers were different than those available from H Lloyd today.


If you look back in the thread, you'll see I have a Rory track frame from the sixties, and I remember the down tube name being in script too, more like a signature - nothing like the transfers available now. I've been looking for ages, so if you find a solution, let me know.

These guys have some Rory stuff that might be OK for you?

http://www.hlloydcycles.com/index.htm

edit
nice to know there's a Rory being ridden in the States!


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## topher1 (2 Oct 2011)

raindog said:


> ...I remember the down tube name being in script too, more like a signature - nothing like the transfers available now. I've been looking for ages, so if you find a solution, let me know.



Thanks raindog...

I actually fired off an email a few days ago to Nick at H Lloyd with copies of the photos of the Rory marques I have. If anything turns up I'll respond to this thread.

Chris


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## topher1 (11 Oct 2011)

Rory O'Brien transfers.... the other ones.... pictured above

On 10/3/2011 6:49 AM, Nick Tithecott wrote: Dear Chris 
I've never seen that head decal before so have nothing to work from. As I've never been asked for it before either I wouldn't be too keen to spend time getting it sorted. The downtube I have seen before, and do occassionally get asked for it too, but its a four hour job to recreate and those four hours need to be paid for (ie gbp 100 for set-up) I would also need detailed photos and a tracing. 
I'm happy to take it on, but it's quite a lump to pay for the first pair off!!! 
Regards 
Nick T 
nick@hlloydcycles.com 
H LLOYD CYCLES 
www.hlloydcycles.com​


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## pubrunner (12 Oct 2011)

Over on Ebay, there is what I'd imagine to be a rather rare Rory O'Brien musette . . .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rory-OBri...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item35b5e79813

No offers, thus far.


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## pubrunner (12 Oct 2011)

topher1 said:


> gbp *100* for set-up . . . it's quite a lump to pay for the first pair off!!!



If only we could have had just a penny donation for each of the 22,000+ views of this thread - we could have purchased those transfers.

I really must get another Rory O'Brien frame.

This has been & is a most amazing and interesting (imo) thread.


----------



## raindog (14 Oct 2011)

topher1 said:


> Rory O'Brien transfers.... the other ones.... pictured above
> 
> On 10/3/2011 6:49 AM, Nick Tithecott wrote: Dear Chris
> I've never seen that head decal before so have nothing to work from. As I've never been asked for it before either I wouldn't be too keen to spend time getting it sorted. The downtube I have seen before, and do occassionally get asked for it too, but its a four hour job to recreate and those four hours need to be paid for (ie gbp 100 for set-up) I would also need detailed photos and a tracing.
> ...


What did you send him to work from for the down tube? I'm curious, as I have a Rory signature that someone sent me from a catalogue. 

Not as good as transfers, but you can get stickers printed on transparent plastic quite cheap I believe, but obviously, you need a decent bit of 
original art-work to work from.


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Oct 2011)

pubrunner said:


> Over on Ebay, there is what I'd imagine to be a rather rare Rory O'Brien musette . . .
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.u...=item35b5e79813
> 
> No offers, thus far.


Pubrunner, 

I have one of those upstairs in the wardrobe, mine is red rather than the blue in your link. It's late eighties/early nineties vintage, bought from the shop in North Street, Romford (as is the Cannondale CAAD2 frame I have in the loft, year 2k vintage).


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## pubrunner (18 Oct 2011)

pubrunner said:


> I really must get another Rory O'Brien frame.



No logic to it really, but one day, I really must get another Rory O'Brien frame. Dunno why, 'cos I've more than enough bikes & frames.

There a potentially cheap frame for sale on Ebay; a bit small for me and collection only from Basingstoke, which is too far away.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ME:B:SS:GB:1123


----------



## pubrunner (18 Oct 2011)

normgow said:


> I never met Vic Gibbons nor Ken Craven although I rode in a couple of time trials which he won (he nearly always won).If you survived this you were generally set up for the rest of the season.



A good mate of mine was a time trialist of that era; his name is Mick Ward and he's *still* a very handy cyclist - I hope I can be as fit, when I'm his age !


----------



## pubrunner (11 Nov 2011)

A Rory O'Brien frame & forks is currently on Ebay; seller suggests that is 60s - 70s. I think (though I stand to be corrected) that it is more likely to be late 70s - 80s ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260891596556&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123


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## pubrunner (23 Nov 2011)

Hilary Stone has a nice Rory O'Brien frame for sale :

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale images/frames/Rory-O'Brien-60s70s.jpg

I sold mine for a lot cheaper than that !


----------



## GordonB (24 Nov 2011)

raindog said:


> I'm 800ks from Paris.
> Another French make that do split down tubes is Mecacycle.


 Mine shown below

Gordon


----------



## pubrunner (25 Nov 2011)

GordonB said:


> Mine shown below
> 
> Gordon
> 
> ...


 
Very nice bike, Gordon.

It's very similar to my Geliano.

Does it have English or French measurements and fittings ?


----------



## GordonB (25 Nov 2011)

pubrunner said:


> Very nice bike, Gordon.
> 
> It's very similar to my Geliano.
> 
> Does it have English or French measurements and fittings ?


 
Oddly enough, it has an English threaded bottom bracket. Seat post is 26.6mm but is weird in that it is a quill seat post with an expander bolt as there's no seat tube clamp. To adjust the height you need to take the saddle off. The bars have been changed since the photo was taken and it now has a set of genuine Mecacycle bars like the ones below, but fitted with Mavic reverse brake levers rather than Ergos.

Gordon


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## raindog (26 Nov 2011)

Very nice frame Gordon - did you buy it in England?


----------



## GordonB (26 Nov 2011)

raindog said:


> Very nice frame Gordon - did you buy it in England?


 
Yes, bought off Ebay last year for a very, very attractive price! I found out this year that Howes Cycles of Cambridge used to sell them and did several models, including the low pro.

Gordon


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## Brian (14 Dec 2011)

Firestorm said:


> Excellent thread and , tbh, the type of thing I signed up on here for.
> 
> My Dad had a Rory in the 50's , Mum had a curly stay Hetchins. Both were very active in the East london / essex racing scene of the 50's . Vic Gibbons has been mentioned in this thread a lot, Dad talks of him.
> 
> ...


 
I was in the Penguins until it collapsed. I was 14 at the time. Run by the guy who owned a pie and eel shop. Then, after a spell in the CTC, joined the Dixie Wheelers as my brother and sister already belonged. Was the last club champion as I was the only one to do the three events (25, 50 and 100 miles). Slowest club champion ever! I also had a Rory, massed start machine.


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## pubrunner (16 Jan 2012)

Over on Retrobike, there is a Rory O'Brien for sale at a very reasonable price.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=182563


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## raindog (17 Jan 2012)

Shame about the pink with the green logo.


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## pubrunner (16 Apr 2012)

raindog said:


> What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here.
> 
> I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth. It's got a really nice Stronglight headset with a 'toothed' adjusting system. Anyroad, here's a picture of the frame. (if I can manage it, that is)
> Now I've joined, I may as well make the effort to join in on the rest of the forum, but it'll take a while for me to explore it.


 
Did you ever get this frame built up, Raindog ?

If so, what does it ride like ?

I'm so tempted to get another Rory - a frame, rather than a bike.

Meanwhile, on Ebay . . . . . . .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-bike-Rory-OBrien?item=270957462745&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo=LVI&itu=UCI&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=7761319052121965204


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## raindog (16 Apr 2012)

pubrunner said:


> Did you ever get this frame built up, Raindog ?
> 
> If so, what does it ride like ?


Yes, it's built up and I rode it a couple of times, but the tubs are rotten and won't hold air and I can't afford new ones just to ride it a few ks twice a year or whatever. I've got several other bikes that need upkeep so this one just hangs on the wall looking pretty. It's very smooth and responsive, which is what you'd expect with a well built fixed wheel.

I suppose one day I'll have to let it go to a good home and let you buy it off me.


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## pubrunner (16 Apr 2012)

raindog said:


> Yes, it's built up and I rode it a couple of times, but the tubs are rotten and won't hold air and I can't afford new ones just to ride it a few ks twice a year or whatever. I've got several other bikes that need upkeep so this one just hangs on the wall looking pretty. It's very smooth and responsive, which is what you'd expect with a well built fixed wheel.
> 
> I suppose one day I'll have to let it go to a good home and let you buy it off me.


 
H'mm, I never tried fixed wheel before. . . . . . . . and it's pretty hilly where I live. . . though al-fresco (who lives not far away) is a convert.

If that frame had 'normal' rear dropouts; I'd probably have to get it.


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## Michael Lagdon (19 Aug 2012)

pubrunner said:


> Over on Retrobike, there is a Rory O'Brien for sale at a very reasonable price.
> 
> http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=182563


 i have a mid-seventies rory o'brien looking for a new home if anyone wants more info get in touch and i'll post info and pics


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## pubrunner (19 Aug 2012)

Michael Lagdon said:


> i have a mid-seventies rory o'brien looking for a new home if anyone wants more info get in touch and i'll post info and pics


 
Pics (plenty of them !), would be nice ! 

I keep telling myself, that I have enough bikes . . . but you never know . . .


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## Tim Garrett (10 Sep 2012)

I have a 1953 Rory O'Brien. I bpught it off of the son of the chap who bought it as a teenager in Rory's Romford shop and rode it all his life. After denting the top bar, I had Vaz repair and repaint it in its original black with gold detailing around the Ephgrave lugs. However, I had no pictures of the signature script decals and as this feed discusses - there are none currently in production. Last weekend, however, I found the holy grail - a Rory bike at Rob Sargent's in Highbury with the same original decals in red. I will post a picture when I work out how to do this. Is anyone else interested in clubbing together with Rob and I to commission Lloyds to have some made up?
Here's pictures of post-pimped Rory and I'll post some of here previous state as well as the holy grail of Rory O'Brien signature script decals, both in the gold that had faded from my bike and the red on the bike in Rob Sargents shop...


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## pubrunner (10 Sep 2012)

Tim Garrett said:


> I have a 1953 Rory O'Brien. . . . . . . .


 
Wow ! That's an early one; it would be great if you could provide pics -especially of the lugs.


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## Tim Garrett (10 Sep 2012)

And here she is before her make over, provinging that you can get a mixed case of wine into a Carradice rear carrier and also some pictures of the early Rory O'Brien decals:


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## david land (22 Dec 2012)

Rory O'Brian certanly was in the Romford Road, I lived in Herbert Road Manor Park and was a fan of the other Bike Shop, Hobbs of Barbican. I had 2 of those bikes and worked in Hobbis as the cycle mechanic, after Alan Perkins who went to work at the Wholeside side of Hobbs in the Barbican. Alf Pettit was the Manager in Manor Park he left to open his own shop over at Leytonstone way. I had left by then (Back into Tayloring) I came back as the Manager for about 12 Months and left to go into the Royal Marines. I was a member of the Leyton C.R.C which Alan Perkins was also.
Whilst working at Hobbs I raced for 2 seasons as a junior and would go training Thursday After-noons with the likes of Dave Bedwell, Bob Thorpe and one or two others that I cannot remember their names, we use to meet at Bob's home on the Eastern Avenue.

I saw Dave ride at Herne Hill on a Good Friday event with Reg Harris commentating " He said no wonder they called him the Iron Man" when Dave 3rd from last in the Road Riders team against the Track Riders made up the the dificit and passed them.
My last place of work was with Royal Mail at the last I was still mending the Red Devils that the Postmen and women used


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## Musrum (29 Jan 2013)

Thanks to Everyone who's posted here. It has been 9 pages of some of the most interesting cycle reading I've done for years.
I've recently bought a bought a old Rory O'Brien bicycle and it's totally original in regards to the paint. I'm desperately trying to date her and work out who the frame builder possibly was. I'm also looking at renovating her but wan't to keep the bike as original as possible. I'm aware there are pro's and cons to repainting a bike, would it be philistine to repaint this one? The serial number is 9775 both on the bottom bracket and fork stem and the past owner thought it dated to the late sixties/ early seventies, I'm not so sure. I've uploaded lots of photos of it which I hope people will enjoy. Which pieces are original and which pieces aren't, I'd be so interested to hear any comments.

The bike has been dismantled so that I can clean and re-grease every nut a bolt before putting her back together. I'm holding off on the respray until I receive advice. Has anyone else seen these company decals as I can't find any other pictures of Rory O'Briens with the same decals. I've pretty much worked out that the bottom of the downtube decal says "BY RESERVATION" but I can't work out what was written on the upper left, adjacent to the address. Any help would be much appreciated.







































http://s556.beta.photobucket.com/user/musrum/library/Rory OBrien Bicycle


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## Musrum (29 Jan 2013)

More Photos are here


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## pubrunner (30 Jan 2013)

Great pics of a very interesting looking frame. (It would be good if you could add in pics of the rear brake bridge - one of the builders for Rory O'Brien used a distinctive style) and a pics of where the rear stays meet the seat tube and the front & rear derailleurs).

The GB Synchron brakes came out in the early 60s; I believe therefore, that the frame dates from the early to mid 60s. The Synchron brakes were one of the first (if not the first) dual caliper brakes ever made. IMO, they are almost certainly, original components . . . . . . . . I believe that the same is true of the wheels and possibly the cranks. The only components that I don't think are original, are the gear shifters - they look rather later.

If it were my frame, I certainly wouldn't respray it. It would be easy to acquire another frame off Ebay to re-furbish & respray. I've never seen the transfers which are on your frame; in my opinion, you have a very rare frame and it would be a shame to lose the history that it displays


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## Musrum (30 Jan 2013)

Here are some more photos detailing some areas of the bike that I may have left out.


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## Musrum (30 Jan 2013)




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## Dannyboy (5 May 2013)

Hi All , I bought a racer from Rory O'Brien Cycles in Romford , about 15/16 years ago and still have it . I worked local to the shop and bought piece by piece until i had every part i needed, then ihad the frame built to my 'spec' When i got the frame home i built the bike up , and i still have it now .
I joined a club summer '12 and some of the riders recognised the name on my frame and commented that i have a good bike and to look after it !


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## BryanH (23 May 2013)

Hi folks, just found forum by chance. Real trip down 'memory lane' - member of Romford Wheelers (and Hainault RC) in 1950s and many of the names mentioned in the 'Rory O'Brien' thread rang loud bells - especially Jim Whitaker (I had a Saturday job in his shop); Vic Gibbons,Ken Craven, Dave Bedwell and Bob Tregonning (I was at Hornchurch Grammar School with son Bob). Thanks, especially to Limey and Normgow for reminding me of the days when the pain in my legs was lactic acid not furred arteries, and I could still touch my toes without putting my back out!
Bryan Harris
Oh and I rode a Duckett - remember them? "Wise men in the east go to Duckets of Seven Kings"


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## JKCR (30 May 2013)

This thread is brilliant to read. I've just found out that I'm distantly related to Rory O'Brien, as Ken Kirby was my Dad's uncle. I just stumbled on this thread as my parents have two O'Brien frames in the garage and Ken's old handmade bike he gave to my father when he was dying. They've offered them to me to try and restore so I've been looking into the history and what would be involved to get them back on the road. It's great to hear stories from the people who bought bikes from them, and that some of the bikes are still going!


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## pubrunner (30 May 2013)

JKCR said:


> This thread is brilliant to read. I've just found out that I'm distantly related to Rory O'Brien, as Ken Kirby was my Dad's uncle. I just stumbled on this thread as my parents have two O'Brien frames in the garage and Ken's old handmade bike he gave to my father when he was dying. They've offered them to me to try and restore so I've been looking into the history and what would be involved to get them back on the road. It's great to hear stories from the people who bought bikes from them, and that some of the bikes are still going!


 
Yes, it has been an amazing thread ! Over 30,000 views and still going !

It'd be great to see some pics of your two O'Briens and the frame made by Ken Kirby. I actually sold my O'Brien (BIG mistake) and I'll get another when I can.

If you restore them, please first take some pics - especially of any transfers/decals.


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## Sole75 (1 Jun 2013)

Hello everyone, this is my very first post on this amazing forum, so be gentle please! 

Well, I was given recently with a Rory O'Brien bike and must admit, love at first sight! I didn't know anything about Rory or classic bikes before, I'm quite a beginner, started cycling only a year ago. I'm turning to you well clued up peeps to find out more details about this fantastic machine! You can spare the history of Rory and his shops as I found those bits out here already. I'm just curious about this bike's age, if it was a big thing in it's time or info about it's parts, like the French Vitus frame or the Campagnolo group set it's having. Any help and info would be highly appreciated! And also if someone would give a rough price just to see it's value.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Kris

More photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10781250@N04/sets/72157633853221251/


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## normgow (1 Jun 2013)

BryanH said:


> Hi folks, just found forum by chance. Real trip down 'memory lane' - member of Romford Wheelers (and Hainault RC) in 1950s and many of the names mentioned in the 'Rory O'Brien' thread rang loud bells - especially Jim Whitaker (I had a Saturday job in his shop); Vic Gibbons,Ken Craven, Dave Bedwell and Bob Tregonning (I was at Hornchurch Grammar School with son Bob). Thanks, especially to Limey and Normgow for reminding me of the days when the pain in my legs was lactic acid not furred arteries, and I could still touch my toes without putting my back out!
> Bryan Harris
> Oh and I rode a Duckett - remember them? "Wise men in the east go to Duckets of Seven Kings"


 Just to keep the ball rolling; I remember Ducketts of Seven Kings. I knew Dave Whiting, who worked there for several years, quite well but only after he had gone to work at Kenistons in Romford.
I was recently trying to remember other lightweight shops east of London. At Stratford was Leach Marathon, at East Ham E.G.Bates, Hobbs of Barbican and Rory O'Brien at Manor Park, J.T. Braysher at Walthamstow, On the corner of Ilford High Street and Ilford Lane was it Whittaker? Then came Ducketts at Seven Kings, Rory O'Brien, Kenistons and I believe Burroughs at Romford. I can't think of anymore until H.E Bates at Westcliff which became Hetchins after they moved from Tottenham.
Can any of you cyclechatters fill in the gaps?


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## Sole75 (16 Jun 2013)

Hello everyone, this is my very first thread on this amazing forum, so be gentle please! 

Well, I was given recently with a Rory O'Brien bike and must admit, love at first sight! I didn't know anything about Rory or classic bikes before, I'm quite a beginner, started cycling only a year ago. I'm turning to you well clued up peeps to find out more details about this fantastic machine! You can spare the history of Rory and his shops as I found those bits out here already. I'm just curious about this bike's age, if it was a big thing in it's time or info about it's parts, like the French Vitus frame or the Campagnolo group set it's having. Any help and info would be highly appreciated! And also if someone would give a rough price just to see it's value.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Kris

More photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10781250@N04/sets/72157633853221251/


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## biggs682 (16 Jun 2013)

@Sole75 that is a fantastic looking bike and i would guess mid to late 80's as for value got to be £200 + , but seeing as it was given to you normal cycle chat tradition is to give away foc to first reply 

being serious i would be proud to have that in my garage


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## Cycleops (16 Jun 2013)

That is a beautiful bike! I too have a Rory O'Brien but mine is a fake! (Dawes) I should think you could comfortably put another £100 on top of Bigg's valuation. Have a look at classicrendezvous.com for some more info. Rory had a shop in Romford I think, but people on here will be able to tell you more. The Vitus frame would be quite rare I imagine as I never seen one before. Treasure it!


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## wisdom (16 Jun 2013)

Thats a beautiful bike.welcome to cycle chat,what a way to start.


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## Sillyoldman (16 Jun 2013)

Cracking looking bike.


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## raindog (17 Jun 2013)

That's gorgeous, but if the frame is a bonded aluminium Vitus, why has someone stuck Rory O'Brien transfers on it? I don't get it. Maybe the shop bought some Vitus frames cheap and badged them. Does anyone know?

Whatever, you'll get some great miles out of that


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## smokeysmoo (17 Jun 2013)

It's certainly a very nice looking thing, but take note of the wise words above it, treasure it - whatever it's made from.

Too many folk have owned and sold bikes such as this only to regret it hours, days, weeks, years later, just trust me on that point OK 

Ride it, enjoy it 

PS:  to CC


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## Minotier (17 Jun 2013)

Very nice machine and  by the way.


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## Cycleops (17 Jun 2013)

Just to let you know a similar bike with the same 979 frame and Campag record components went for £500 on ebay last week!


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## Sole75 (18 Jun 2013)

Thanks a lot for the kind words, it really is a fantastic bike. It runs smoothly and very light. No way selling it though! I was just curious about it's history as I couldn't find any info of this particular built.
Thanks again!


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## Sterba (21 Jun 2013)

That looks like a six speed freewheel, not a (modern) cassette. If so, be careful if you ever have to take it off the hub. It might be the type that needs two chainwhips, the first pulling anti-clockwise on the ouside cog and the second holding the rest of the cluster still while you exert force on the first. Very tricky.


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## Tony Smith (21 Jun 2013)

Beautiful example. Didn't Rory O'Brien have something to do with Ephgrave ?


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## pubrunner (21 Jun 2013)

Tony Smith said:


> Beautiful example. Didn't Rory O'Brien have something to do with Ephgrave ?


 
^^^ Yes, Les Ephgrave built quite a few frames for Rory O'Brien, as did Vic Edwards - who also built 'Rondinalla' frames. It is highly likely, that some of the London frame builders also made frames for Rory O'Brien. O'Brien's did not build any of the frames that they sold . . . all were bought in.

For *much* more info. on Rory O'Brien, check this thread . . . . . . .

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/rory-obrien-bike.2483/





raindog said:


> That's gorgeous, but if the frame is a bonded aluminium Vitus, why has someone stuck Rory O'Brien transfers on it? I don't get it. Maybe the shop bought some Vitus frames cheap and badged them. Does anyone know?


 

The bike owned by the OP, is simply one to which someone has fastened Rory O'Brien decals; whether this was done at the Rory O'Brien shop, or by a previous owner, is impossible to say. I'm not aware of O'Briens bringing in foreign frames, but I guess we will never know.



raindog said:


> That's gorgeous, . . .
> 
> Whatever, you'll get some great miles out of that


 
Yes, whatever the frame is (not a 'typical' Rory O'Brien), it is very nice indeed !


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## BarryBonkers (24 Jun 2013)

Wow, I haven't seen a Vitus 979 frame in such good condition for ages.



> I'm just curious about this bike's age, if it was a big thing in it's time or info about it's parts, like the French Vitus frame or the Campagnolo group set it's having


 
Is there a serial number on the bottom bracket? That should give you the age of the frame. Perhaps 1985-ish?

As for the Vitus frames themselves, back in the day they had a reputation for being very light, and delicate. The delicate part stemmed from the comparison with steel, which was the predominant racing frame-set at the time. To keep it shiny you might like to try ACF-50, developed by the Lear Corporation for their aluminium bodied jets.

Looked after, the Campagnolo components will last a lifetime. You can buy spares, even today. If I was you, you might want to ask your local bike shop (LBS) to service and adjust the gears. And the Miche hubs, they're okay but now you're destined to search for wheels with Campagnolo hubs to complete the set...


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## graham west (5 Jul 2013)

Rory O'Brien was a friend of my father, whom he met at the stone sailing club, in st Lawrence bay on the river blackwater. Both Rory, and my father owned shearwater catermerans, and raced them on the river, although this part was more like an estuary, about a mile across, very open to strong winds, where these boats would move at great speeds. There were 10- 12 shearwaters, as well as many other types of dingys. Rory was a very nice man, always ready to help, and lots of fun too. This was around 1960-4, I was ten years old, but I remember rory as being tallish, with wavy grey hair, and legs with large knees. About 1964 my father sent me to boarding school at goring, outside Worthing. I needed a bike, my father spoke to rory, and a few weeks later a newish rory O'Brien bike arrived. I rode that bike into the ground, but it was up to my best efforts. I can't remember what eventually happened to that bike. The shop that the bike came from was in rush green, not far from roneo corner. graham west.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2013)

Summat's wrong with the thread - there's a whole load of recent posts gone missing


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## pubrunner (9 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Summat's wrong with the thread - there's a whole load of recent posts gone missing



Yeah , you are correct - IIRC, there were about 20 -30 pages . . . . . . . Weren't there ? Shame if they're gone, 'cos this thread is turning into the definitive resource, for all things Rory O'Brien.


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## raindog (10 Jul 2013)

All the replies and "likes" to Sole75's post have disappeared, and you're right, PR - about 20 older pages have gone too.
Perhaps a mod can help?


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## pubrunner (10 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> All the replies and "likes" to Sole75's post have disappeared, and you're right, PR - about 20 older pages have gone too.
> Perhaps a mod can help?


 

I've just sent Shaun a message . . . . . . . if he can't fix it, nobody can !


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## pubrunner (10 Jul 2013)

BryanH said:


> Hi folks, just found forum by chance. Real trip down 'memory lane' - member of Romford Wheelers (and Hainault RC) in 1950s and many of the names mentioned in the 'Rory O'Brien' thread rang loud bells - especially Jim Whitaker (I had a Saturday job in his shop); Vic Gibbons,Ken Craven, Dave Bedwell and Bob Tregonning (I was at Hornchurch Grammar School with son Bob). Thanks, especially to Limey and Normgow for reminding me of the days when the pain in my legs was lactic acid not furred arteries, and I could still touch my toes without putting my back out!
> Bryan Harris
> Oh and I rode a Duckett - remember them? "Wise men in the east go to Duckets of Seven Kings"


 
I saw a Duckett bike just a month or two ago - and it was in excellent, original condition. Do you still have a 'vintage' bike, Bryan ?


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## Shaun (13 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> Summat's wrong with the thread - there's a whole load of recent posts gone missing


 
They were in a separate thread - I've merged them with this one. As to a missing 20 or 30 pages, I can't (currently) find any evidence of that. If you can tell me some of the posters names or advise on some of the content, I can look.

Cheers,
Shaun


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## raindog (13 Jul 2013)

Shaun said:


> They were in a separate thread


oh Christ, sorry Shaun. Senility can't be far off for me now....


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## pubrunner (13 Jul 2013)

raindog said:


> oh Christ, sorry Shaun. Senility can't be far off for me now....


 
Yeah, sorry @Shaun - I must also be 'losing it'.


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## Shaun (13 Jul 2013)

No worries - so long as it's sorted.


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## Single Sprocket (14 Jul 2013)

Hi,
I'm looking for any information on this (possible) Rory O'Brien tandem frame that I have recently purchased, I'm under no false pretences that it may well not be a ROB but it's where I need to start my search, I'm planning on rebuilding this over the coming winter and would like to return in to it's original builders name.
I believe at one point this was owned by Roy Hodges and was regularly raced on the E72, perhaps a frame he bought and was then re-painted and badged up as ROB ?

Frame No is 6352, Stamped on the N/S rear drop out and also on the Fork Steerer.

All of the frame lugs are blended and there's an unusual chain stay arrangement that may well help pin point the frame builder.

Any info gladly received.

Jim


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## Keith Bines (2 Aug 2013)

I have a 1988 Rory O'Brien - still in daily use. Original MA40 wheels with full Shimano 600 Ultegra groupset. Cinelli bars and stem and look pedals. It is in desperate need of a respray and I have found somebody local to me who can do it. However I cannot source any transfers that are of the same type. Any body know where I can get them?


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## cinelli (9 Aug 2013)

That tandem looks awesome. Would love to see photos of it built up.


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## thegravestoneman (9 Aug 2013)

I had a 1930's Freddy Grubb tandem with the same chainstay arrangement, I think it may have been the norm for short wheel base tandems.


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## Steve Mears (27 Sep 2013)

I have just inherited a Rory' from my old friend Bob Fox (a 'Becontree Wheeler' who sadly passed away two years ago). My Auntie used to live in the flat immediately above the shop on the Romford Road, in Manor Park. I am trying to restore it. Will post picture as soon as I work out how to do so.


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## Eagle Glenn (20 Oct 2013)

Just chanced on this forum & thread as I'll be selling my Vitus 979 I bought new from Rory O'Brien in1987 and was looking for transfers. The transfers are adhesive & peeling off, so I thought I'd replace them before selling the frame.

I'm in the Eagle Road Club & raced late 70s to late 80s. I've now started racing again, on carbon bikes.

My first frame was a 531 Claud Butler bought from Dick (HR) Morris in Walthamstow (I couldn't afford one of his so he did me a deal on one that had been in his window for ages. The paint had badly faded on one side!). After crashing that my next was a Condor Italia bought 2nd hand. 

I've also got a 531 Brian Wilkins track bike c early 1970s. We used to hang out at Brian's shop in Markhouse Rd (I think he took it off Frank Lipscombe). I bought it off a club mate and raced it at Harlow Track. I emailed Brian recently - he's in France & still regularly riding his bike. Happily he remembered making the frame (& his wife lining the lugs!)

There are some nice pics & memories on this thread. I also raced tandem on the E72 (my only club record ) and don't remember the tandem frame above. However it could have been Roy Hodges's - certainly he could have turned that chainring!

Regards to anyone who knows me or the Eagle RC


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## Yaz731200 (6 Nov 2013)

My brother gave me a rory o brien frame on Sunday as I need a bike.
Had it in the garden a while, picked up a campag veloce groupset tonight and an FsA chanset oh and some fulcrum wheels.
Nothing major just wana get it working and then slowly upgrade it.
Hope the pic works.


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## biggs682 (7 Nov 2013)

@Yaz731200 no pic didnt work for me which is a shame


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## Shaun (8 Nov 2013)

biggs682 said:


> @Yaz731200 no pic didnt work for me which is a shame



Pic fixed - should be able to see it now.


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## biggs682 (8 Nov 2013)

Shaun said:


> Pic fixed - should be able to see it now.


thanks shaun .

@Yaz731200 looks great


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## Owd Fella (8 Nov 2013)

What a cracking thread. Lots of useful and interesting info here. Many of the shop names I only recognise from the adverts in 'Sporting Cyclist' magazines from the 50's and 60's. Being a Welshman I never got into East London but when my sister married in '61 and went to live in Kingston I did get to Carpenters, Cyril Wren and Reeds. 

I do recognise all the 'names' mentioned. Ken Craven was my hero in the TT'ing world. I never met him but did ride a couple of events he won!

One name that has not been mentioned in the frame building for the trade side of the cycle business is Tonard. Perhaps they were to far to the South of London? However, they were a company that made anything involving joining bits of metal together (possibly even the first supermarket trolleys for the UK?) and made some very nice frames. They were part owned by Keith Hardwick who later started up Elsmar Distribution. His wife used to be Signor Campagnolo's secretary which is where the Campagnolo, Clement etc. agency contacts came from.

I have a Vitus 979 frame, nominally a Peugeot one but the decals were packed separately so didn't always get fitted. I'm sure they must have been sold to the trade 'blank' as I've seen them with all sorts of names on and in a variety of anodised colours. Graham Weigh used to sell loads with his name on for instance. The very nice black ROB one seen earlier is probably one like this.


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## Tony Smith (8 Nov 2013)

Yaz 731200 has now been bitten by that bug that's going around .


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## Yaz731200 (8 Nov 2013)

Got it riding today and picked up a lovely kmc gold chain(not in image) frame is a little on the big side hence the low saddle and a tad long again super short stem, but even with an old shimano chain riding home from acton to twickenham it was lovely, oh and the hand tight bb, badly fitted rear tyre flat spot and lack of brakes.
But I just needed to give it a little ride haha!






Sorry I can't link images correctly stupid iPad!!
Tomrow is a full strip down clean the frame maybe a polish then rebuild it for my winter bike!


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## classicarman (5 Dec 2013)

I have a Rory O'Brien that I'd like to have dated. Looks like an early 70's but is there anyone who can tell by the frame number?


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## pubrunner (6 Dec 2013)

classicarman said:


> I have a Rory O'Brien that I'd like to have dated. Looks like an early 70's but is there anyone who can tell by the frame number?



Rory O'Brien frames were made by various framebuilders; what is known, is that he didn't build any himself. As a result, it is virtually impossible to assign an accurate date to a frame. 

I'm sure that there are a few on here that would like to see of photo of what you have - is it a frame or an entire bike ? If you read back through this thread, you'll see that a variety of decals/transfer have been used, but again, it is difficult to give an accurate date. If you can post a pick, I'm sure that we'll be able to give you some useful information.


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## classicarman (6 Dec 2013)

OK, in that case I don't send the frame number but I can include a link to recent photos. The detailled shots of the frame are taken before I sympathetically disassembled and rebuilt the bike. Despite some rust spots the bike is originally and wears its patina and charm beautifully.
I'd like to hear your thoughts. I've read most of this thread, it's interesting.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/22440193@N06/sets/72157638423577313/


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## pubrunner (7 Dec 2013)

Great Pics ! @classicarman .

First of all, I think it is a great looking bike !

It is certainly an interesting find - like most Rory O'Briens.

On the seat-tube, I can see a rectangular Reynolds 531 decal/transfer. Because of the angle of the photo, it is difficult to read the transfer; in the gold area at the bottom of the transfer, if it reads :-

*Manufactured by 
Reynolds Tube Co. Ltd
Birmingham England*
. . . . . . . then (in theory) the frame dates between 1973 & early 1977.

However, if in the gold area at the bottom of the transfer, it reads :-

*Manufactured by 
TI Reynolds Limited
Birmingham England*
. . . . . . . then (in theory) the frame dates between mid 1977 - mid 1980s.

Reynolds added the gold box and address at the bottom in 1973. Although Reynolds were part of TI earlier than 1977 they didn’t change the contents of the gold box at bottom until 1977.

However, there would still have been a lot of old print stock knocking about, that would have gone onto later-built frames and indeed, I've seen mid-’80’s with pre-’73 decals on them. And of course, it is quite possible, that this is a frame that has been resprayed/enameled at some time.

*If* this has the later TI Reynolds decal (1977 - mid 80s), then I'm surprised that the frame has no brazed-on cable guides on the top tube and no braze-ons for the shifters - in my (non-expert) opinion  , the lack of these features would suggest an earlier frame. I think that you have a very attractive 1970's Rory O'Brien, though it is difficult to tell whether early or late 70s. I don't think that it is a 60s bike, or one built in the 80s.

I wonder if the Shimano Crane derailleur is original to the bike ? They were introduced in about 1975/6 which would tie in with the likely age of the bike.

Perhaps other forum members might like to offer their opinions ?


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## classicarman (7 Dec 2013)

Thanks @pubrunner.
I checked the Reynolds label. It appears to be the same as H Lloyd's "531F77-82".
The frame number stamped onto the BB is 796.
Simple frame detail - no cable/shifter/bottle guides or pump pegs, interesting but not Ephgrave lugs.
If it was re painted it was a while ago and properly prepared, not over painted.
Bar tape was felt-feeling and navy blue, I replaced with white cloth, twine and shellac. Not correct but looks nicer. I also removed the black anodising from the SR seat post.

I'd be open to sensible offers.


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## pubrunner (7 Dec 2013)

This site might offer some clues :-

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/FREE_SITE_VINTAGE/VINTAGE_3_Frame_Clues.htm


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## classicarman (10 Dec 2013)

pubrunner said:


> This site might offer some clues :-
> 
> http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/FREE_SITE_VINTAGE/VINTAGE_3_Frame_Clues.htm


Thanks! I'd read that site with interest some time ago but not seen that guide, it is very good.
After taking it out at the weekend I'm now in 2 minds as to whether or not I keep it. Knew that would be a mistake.


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## pubrunner (10 Dec 2013)

classicarman said:


> After taking it out at the weekend I'm now in 2 minds as to whether or not I keep it. Knew that would be a mistake.



Keep it; I sold mine . . . . . . . and have regretted it ever since. 

I sold it to a fellow V-CC member; he asked me if could make it as 'affordable' as possible and he also told me that he wanted it for V-CC Section Rides.

It was an early (50's) Rory O'Brien as made by Les Ephgrave and was entirely original. I sold it to him at a 'knockdown' price, thinking I was doing him as favour . . . . . . . two days later, the frame was for sale on Ebay advertised as 'suitable for 'fixie' ' - and I later found out, that was what happened to it.

The primary aim of the V-CC, by the way, is the 'preservation & conservation' of old bikes. The guy to whom I sold it, is one of the 'leading lights' of the V-CC - got to laugh at that.

Please be aware, that if you sell an entire bike such as this, there is every chance that it will be pulled apart, with the bits sold individually - that's how the dealers operate, to maximise profits.

As mentioned by @rbreid in another topic within this section . . .

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/can-you-name-my-frame.129958/



rbreid said:


> Given that it is unlikely that identification is going to happen in this case,* if you are after best value then breaking is IMHO your best bet.* The crankset is a Stronglight 49D and can fetch a good price on Ebay (check closed listings for how much to expect). Same with the bar end shifters (look like Campagnolo) and the centrepull brakes possibly Mafac from what I can see in pics. Lyotard Berthet pedals also fetch good prices. Well over a hundred quids worth in those parts alone I'd estimate. Listed as a complete bike possibly £50 and yet the bare frame might make nearly that. Odd I know but that is what tends to happen on Ebay. Not a good time of year to list though what with xmas round the corner. Best in the autumn when peeps are looking at readying for winter project builds.
> *Be aware too that it would be likely that if you listed it complete you'd see the parts above listed a week later by the purchaser, happens all too regularly IME.*



In my experience, the above comments ^^^ are entirely correct.

Sadly, I can't bring myself to pull any of my bikes apart, much less, sell one - though my better half wishes that I would.


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## classicarman (13 Dec 2013)

pubrunner said:


> Keep it; I sold mine . . . . . . . and have regretted it ever since.



I'd love to keep it but that was not the idea behind my original purchase. I prefer to breathe new life into forlorn or overlooked items. Maybe though, in future. I should stick to buying more of your everyday fodder so as not to get attached. Nah. Always been my problem. I'm with you in that I'd never buy anything to strip and sell for parts. I can see it's a tempting weakness for some whilst there's a market but for me the joy is seeing a complete bike. Whilst the original frame's still holding up, that's where the parts belong.

More photos and specification can be found here...
velomike.wordpress.com


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## biggs682 (13 Dec 2013)

buying an old quality bike to strip is a crime , although being honest i have done it a couple of time on more bread & butter gas pipe bikes .

@classicarman that looks a great bike , keep it enjoy it and ride it


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## normgow (15 Dec 2013)

pubrunner said:


> Great Pics ! @classicarman .
> 
> I wonder if the Shimano Crane derailleur is original to the bike ? They were introduced in about 1975/6 which would tie in with the likely age of the bike.
> 
> Perhaps other forum members might like to offer their opinions ?


 
It could be that the bike is a bit older, I bought a Shimano Crane rear mechanism in 1972 (stil works reasonably well).


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## pubrunner (21 Dec 2013)

normgow said:


> It could be that the bike is a bit older, I bought a Shimano Crane rear mechanism in 1972 (stil works reasonably well).



It could be that the bike is older, but I think that's unlikely, 'cos the Reynolds transfer looks original and that type didn't come out until 1977.

But whatever age it is, I really like it.


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## Sole75 (12 May 2014)

Thought I'd share this.






http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rory-OBri...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a3cae5b24

Does someone know anything about date of introduction, designer, etc...?
Thanks in advance!


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## ocianbricles (23 Aug 2014)

I have a Rory O'Brien frame that I bought from stock in the Romford shop in 1978ish Romford. As it had been in the shop a while unsprayed I am under the impression that it was a 1977 frame. the number is 707 which would indicate to me it was a 1977 frame.
I have just had it copper-coloured powder-coated. Waiting for decals. I also have acquired another "R" . . . a 1952 Rivetts of Leytonstone that I got from a lady who was in my first club the Penquin cycle club. My first frame was an of the peg Holdsworth from Rory's in the early 'fifties.


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## Si33 (28 Jan 2015)

Hi, first post here. It seems like my google search of Rory O'Brien, like many others, has led me here. I have gone through the whole thread with great interest - such a fascinating read. It has got me interested in acquiring an O'Brien frame if possible. Could any of you knowledgeable types cast an eye over this please - fourth frame down from the top http://www.hilarystone.com/frameset13.html 

The decals look more modern that sixties in my limited opinion - that doesn't mean to say it has had a re-spray at some point.... Any thoughts gratefully received.

Many thanks,

Simon


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jan 2015)

From memory I'm sure those decals were used by Rory O'Brien during that period. I think what they put on depended on what suited the frame colour, panelled tubes used block graphics. The later frames just had R o B on the tubes.


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## Si33 (28 Jan 2015)

Thanks for your reply Smokin Joe. So you think those decals were around in the 60s? It does have just R o B for the head badge.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jan 2015)

Si33 said:


> Thanks for your reply Smokin Joe. So you think those decals were around in the 60s? It does have just R o B for the head badge.


I'm going by memory here, but as the Manor Park shop was my local LBS and many club mates rode them that definitely looks like it comes from that era. I can't actually remember the head tube badge, but it would be difficult to fit the full name on it.


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## pubrunner (29 Jan 2015)

Si33 said:


> Hi, first post here. It seems like my google search of Rory O'Brien, like many others, has led me here. I have gone through the whole thread with great interest - such a fascinating read. It has got me interested in acquiring an O'Brien frame if possible. Could any of you knowledgeable types cast an eye over this please - fourth frame down from the top http://www.hilarystone.com/frameset13.html
> 
> The decals look more modern that sixties in my limited opinion - that doesn't mean to say it has had a re-spray at some point.... Any thoughts gratefully received.
> 
> ...



Hi, I've taken a look at the Rory O'Brien frame; as with anything, it all depends on how it might meet your requirements. With the rack built on the rear, cantilever front brakes and 'relaxed' front forks, it would (IMO) make the basis of a comfortable touring bike. It looks a nicely made frame, with some thoughtful touches - it's a while since I've seen pump mountings behind the seat tube - a sensible notion.

I don't think it needs painting, I'd just ensure that it is clean and build it up 'as is'. It is quite an interesting frame (IMO) and would be the subject of some keen attention from more senior cyclists.

I think that it is a very reasonable price . . . . . . . at the end of the day however, it is all down to whether it will suit your needs . . . And if it is the right size.

If you do purchase this frame, don't pay too much attention to any frame numbers - they were constructed by a few frame builders.

I've just noticed, this thread has had 45,000 views - amazing !


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## Si33 (29 Jan 2015)

pubrunner - thank you for your assessment.


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## Si33 (2 Feb 2015)

I have purchased the Rory O'Brien frame that I mentioned a few posts earlier. That link no longer works as it has come off the site so here are a few photos for reference. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread - the history and knowledge shown has been remarkable. I would love to have peoples opinion on this frame - I have this information from Hilary Stone when we looked over it -

" The fork crown is very typical of some Vic Edwards built frames and the frame number with the single letter prefix is also typical of Rory O'Brien frames I believe that were built by Vic. What I think threw me in the first place was the lugs which are an older design used frequently by Wally Green. The Simplex vertical dropouts are those of the type used in the late 50s and 1960s. By the 1970s they were not used in the UK generally. "

I have some specific questions I would love advice on, but firstly, I'll just put 'it out there' for general feedback.

Thanks in advance for any pointers on how you think this bike would have been built up in period.

Simon

















Album link - https://flic.kr/s/aHsk8aaTan


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## pubrunner (2 Feb 2015)

I can't really add much more, other than most (though by no means all) Rory O'Briens were built by Vic Edwards or Les Ephgrave, both frame builders of the highest repute. To buy a new frame made to this specification, would cost you far more than you've paid for it.

If it were mine, I'd just ensure that it is clean and build it up as is; a fine frame and a doubt you'll see another to that specification.


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## bikesknob (27 Apr 2015)

Add me to the list of those who joined the forum after searching google for Rory bikes. Thanks for providing all this fantastic information. I bought one (or what remains of one) by chance a few weeks ago because of the 531 sticker on downtube (yep, I'm a simple man). It's a 59cm frame from the early to mid 1970s from what I can tell from this thread and a few other sources. As the photo shows, it's been somewhat crudely converted into a single speed/fixie, so the only original parts appear to be the frame and forks and possibly the drop bars. I took the photo moments after buying it and have cleaned it up a bit since then, thouogh I've realised the frame is slightly too big for me.

I was of two minds to either uprade it to a more roadworthy fixie or restore it to its original glory, either of which would probably include a powdercoat. Instead I'm thinking of selling it.


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## pubrunner (27 Apr 2015)

bikesknob said:


> Add me to the list of those who joined the forum after searching google for Rory bikes. Thanks for providing all this fantastic information. I bought one (or what remains of one) by chance a few weeks ago because of the 531 sticker on downtube (yep, I'm a simple man). It's a 59cm frame from the early to mid 1970s from what I can tell from this thread and a few other sources. As the photo shows, it's been somewhat crudely converted into a single speed/fixie, so the only original parts appear to be the frame and forks and possibly the drop bars. I took the photo moments after buying it and have cleaned it up a bit since then, thouogh I've realised the frame is slightly too big for me.
> 
> I was of two minds to either uprade it to a more roadworthy fixie or restore it to its original glory, either of which would probably include a powdercoat. Instead I'm thinking of selling it.



It would be nice to see a pic of the frame . . .


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## bikesknob (28 Apr 2015)

pubrunner said:


> It would be nice to see a pic of the frame . . .


 
Fiddlesticks, I'm not sure why that other picture didn't work. I'll try again. And I'll post some more detailed shots later.

Thanks for starting this thread pubrunner, I can't believe how much time I've spent reading about Rory bikes.


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## coolneo (26 Jun 2015)

HI all.
I came across your forum whilst attempting some research on my late Dads Rory bike.
he bought it in the early 60's as far as I understand and i remember it sitting in the shed, then a garage hanging on the wall upto this year hehe.
I have decided i am going to renovate it as unfortunately over the years in my dads garage it has suffered with a little rust as you can see on the photo's.
I'm thinking of a respray then rebuild as is.
I believe it is all original from when he rode many years ago.
Only problem i am having is finding the exact decals to replace.
anyone have any ideas where i can get any ?
Thanks in advance
Martin


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## pubrunner (26 Jun 2015)

coolneo said:


> HI all.
> I came across your forum whilst attempting some research on my late Dads Rory bike.
> he bought it in the early 60's as far as I understand and i remember it sitting in the shed, then a garage hanging on the wall upto this year hehe.
> I have decided i am going to renovate it as unfortunately over the years in my dads garage it has suffered with a little rust as you can see on the photo's.
> ...



That's a lovely bike you have !

If it were mine, I most certainly would not paint it. Just give it a wipe over, with a cloth, it'd be a shame to lose all that patina and originality. It is actually worth more as an original bike - it is just the kind of bike that collectors are looking for. Frequently, some 'collectors' buy bikes just like this, to strip them down and sell off the bits - they make more money that way.

Take a look at this website, and reflect on the values of the frames - as you'll see, patina is a very popular selling point. These frames are a similar age to your own :

http://www.hilarystone.com/frameset9.html

Take a look at this link, scroll down until you see the final frame (not as nice as yours -IMO)

http://www.hilarystone.com/frameset6.html

If you really must paint it, you can get decals from here :

http://www.hlloydcycles.com/

All the best,

Pubby

Oh yes, could you put on a photo of the rear brake bridge - it might give a clue to the frame builder.


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## coolneo (26 Jun 2015)

Hi Pubby
Thanks for your reply.
I must admit I am a bit hesitant to repaint it, it just seemed the thing to do but I will have a serious think before I do anything rash.
Maybe just a full strip down and rebuild 
Apart from maybe finding out a value for insurance purposes the actual monetary value isn't an issue as its sentimental value is priceless and I wouldn't sell it. I hope the photo's below are clear enough.
Many thanks for your suggestions and links.


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## pubrunner (26 Jun 2015)

coolneo said:


> Hi Pubby
> Thanks for your reply.
> I must admit I am a bit hesitant to repaint it, it just seemed the thing to do but I will have a serious think before I do anything rash.
> Maybe just a full strip down and rebuild
> ...



The more that I look at that bike, the more I like it !

I can't say who built it, but it was a quality frame builder - being early 60s, I'd guess Vic Edwards or perhaps Les Ephgrave. Both of them were builders of the highest calibre.

Now here's an interesting thing, I've never seen a 531 decal like the one on your bike. I suggest that you consider posting your bike on the Retrobike forum - make sure you include a photo of the transfer. Are there any more on the bike ?

Oh yes, an early Simplex shifter like the one on your bike, would fetch a tidy price on EBay. Type 'Simplex Shifter' into EBay and be prepared to be impressed with the prices that they make.


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## coolneo (26 Jun 2015)

No more decals.
the frame itself has some stamped numbers etc.
What possibly is "1966" or highly unlikely "1906"
The word " NERVEX" and underneath that very faintly is a string of numbers and letters.


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## pubrunner (28 Jun 2015)

coolneo said:


> No more decals.
> the frame itself has some stamped numbers etc.
> What possibly is "1966" or highly unlikely "1906"
> The word " NERVEX" and underneath that very faintly is a string of numbers and letters.
> ...



Sadly, it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to glean much info. from the frame numbers/letters. Rory O'Briens were built by quite a few frame builders - each with his own numbering 'system'.

I had a rear dérailleur just like the one on your bike - sold it for £35 on EBay. I suggest that you identify just what components are currently fitted - they should help to put a date on the frame.

If it were my frame, I'd just clean it up and fettle it as required. No need to paint it (IMO) - that way, it stays as Dad's bike and I think that down the line, you'd be pleased that you retained the originality. Besides which, it is easy enough to pick up a cheap 531 frame to restore and renovate as a project.


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## Shandoom (12 Jul 2015)

I too have recently bought a Rory O Brien which I've fixed and put Campagnolo headset, seatpost, BB and cranks. Phil Wood cog with Fuji feather wheels ( that don't go )
I've stripped the crap re spray and have the original blue/light blue paint. The lugs are Nervex with extra cuts? It has an oil filler cap over the BB. I'm wondering who made it and a poss date?
Thanks


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## midlife (6 Sep 2015)

Just acquired a frame decalled as an O'Brien, Painted white, shot in stays and nice fork rake, over BB cable to the rear mech so who could resist.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-R...2hUIAzY1S0XghWW73nYyk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Not sure who made it as it's just stamped 901 on the forks and BB. Neatly made, nice geometry, good shore lines, Portacatena dropout, rear mech over the BB cable, front mech under the BB so late 70's to early 80's. It has a couple of issues not visible in the pics but all in all a surprisingly well built frame.

Shaun


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## Keith Eagland (9 Sep 2015)

pubrunner said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Rory O'Brien bike, but so far, I've not managed to find anything about either the bike or Rory O'Brien.
> 
> ...


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## Keith Eagland (9 Sep 2015)

Hi. Rory Obrien did have the two shops mentioned by many of your other reporters, and yes the fist shop was in Romford Road Manor Park London E12 the other shop was in North Street Romford Essex.
I was advised that Rory was involved in preparing the British Cycling Team for the 1948 Olympics held in London.
He was extremely well known in cycling circles in East London, and very popular with the club that I was a member of - The Roamer Club of East Ham.
The Manor Park shop was open as early as 1954 and as a schoolboy i frequently went window shopping there and simply drooled at the fantastic bikes and accessories on display.
In 1957 I was working and had some income. The first thing that i did was to go to the Manor Park shop and buy a Rory Obrien frame in Flame red with the brilliant Lug Work picked out in Gold. I then proceeded to purchase all the items to build my own road bike, these included GB Brakes and Handlebars, 26" Alloy Wheels with Quick Release Hubs. French Huret Deraillier Gear Set ( I went for Huret Gearing because Louison Bobet had just won the Tour De France using Huret gearing ). I did Time Trials on that bike until 1961 when I got married.
I would dearly love to at least aquire a Rory Obrien Frame and mount it on the wall of my garage as an everlasting memory of brilliant years gone by.


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## brinorl (11 Oct 2016)

The Bear said:


> I also used to work in Rory O'Briens - for Roy Hodges daughter Mandy and her husband Mick "Bert" Black. I knew Rory in the late 60s and early 70s - he was a rum character, and quite intimidating for young sprogs just starting out. He once told me that the only way to become a real bike rider was to "put a brick in your saddlebag" and "wear wellington boots". Looking back I expect I was just the sort of nervous little kid he loved to tease! Rory sold the business to Roy Hodges about 1977 - Roy was by then in the Elite CC, and still racing. Rory himself retired to Bicknacre. I worked in the shop for just a couple of years, 1978-1980 if I remember correctly. Dear old Ken Kirby was still there and he taught me to build wheels and swear properly.
> 
> Re frames - a word of caution. By the 1970s Rory's frames were not really considered the best - respectable yes, but not the best. In 1970s Essex, probably the two most reckoned frames were Hetchins and Condor - built by Jack Denny and Vic Edwards respectively. However the name "Rory O'Brien" still had a certain cachet about it - probably on the basis that in the 50s and 60s the frames had once been top notch. The shop always remained a mecca for bikies.
> 
> ...


I too have been trying to date my frame, G91747. It seems its not as old as I first thought. Interestingly I only live a couple of miles from Bicknacre, and had a mate there check on any O,Briens in the area. There are three, whether they are related should come to light soon, as questions have been posted in their local magazine which comes out this month. Unknowingly I built my bike up with 50,s/60,s components and transfers.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Oct 2016)

brinorl said:


> I too have been trying to date my frame, G91747. It seems its not as old as I first thought. Interestingly I only live a couple of miles from Bicknacre, and had a mate there check on any O,Briens in the area. There are three, whether they are related should come to light soon, as questions have been posted in their local magazine which comes out this month. Unknowingly I built my bike up with 50,s/60,s components and transfers.


At a guess I'd say 1960's. Nice looking bike.


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## normgow (20 Oct 2016)

Keith Eagland said:


> I was advised that Rory was involved in preparing the British Cycling Team for the 1948 Olympics held in London


I believe this is correct. In 1953 the World Championships were held in Lugano in southern Switzerland and Dave Bedwell, then riding for Hercules Cycles, but for the Worlds, in the national team, finished 23rd behind an unstoppable Fausto Coppi. Rory O'Brien travelled to the race to look after Dave and whilst there took part in a discussion with Mac McLachlan of Hercules, journalists Peter Bryan and Bill Mills and others, about the possibility of fielding a British team in the Tour de France.


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## Firestorm (20 Oct 2016)

normgow said:


> I believe this is correct. In 1953 the World Championships were held in Lugano in southern Switzerland and Dave Bedwell, then riding for Hercules Cycles, but for the Worlds, in the national team, finished 23rd behind an unstoppable Fausto Coppi. Rory O'Brien travelled to the race to look after Dave and whilst there took part in a discussion with Mac McLachlan of Hercules, journalists Peter Bryan and Bill Mills and others, about the possibility of fielding a British team in the Tour de France.


I read on the classic lightweights page that Rory supported Dave Bedwell on several occasions, in this case literally
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/davebedwell.jpg


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## Smokin Joe (27 Jan 2017)

A lovely example of a Rory here, kitted out with Universal brakes which were my stoppers of choice because of the comfortable hoods.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/rory-o-b-penfold-rb.html


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## defreitus (25 Apr 2017)

Firestorm said:


> I read on the classic lightweights page that Rory supported Dave Bedwell on several occasions, in this case literally
> http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/davebedwell.jpg


Hi, As a junior in the early 1960's, I raced for Dave Bedwells club Romford Racing Club in company with Tony Culver with whom I went to school. We used to go on training rides with the seniors like Dave Bedwell, Dave Robinson, Clive Howells --- but not for long !!
Dave used to work for Rory O'brien whose shop was at North street Romford. I remember Sean Smith also worked there and we were members of Harold Wood Wheelers when we were quite young.
I saw on another post that someone was trying to remember the lightweight shops around East London and Essex and they were quite right about W.E.Burroughs (Wally to us tyros) - I also remember Stephens at Emerson Park who produced a good frame made as many were with nervex pro lugs, Campag ends and 531 tubes. I raced a Duckett then and what a good frame it was - Lime green with red transfers but I no longer have it unfortunately. I do,however, have a 1960 Harry Quinn which is almost identical. Campag equipped of course!


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## Cycleops (25 Apr 2017)

I had a Rory O'Brien, or so I thought. Bought it down here. It was in fact a Dawes restickered & resprayed. Very light so might have been a 531.

Should have kept the pics so you could have a good laugh.


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## ocianbricles (8 Jun 2017)

This is my 1977? [no777] Rory O'Brien which has had a respray with heart-shaped keyhole cut-out lugs.


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## pubrunner (8 Jun 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> This is my 1977? [no777] Rory O'Brien which has had a respray with heart-shaped keyhole cut-out lugs.
> View attachment 356165



That's a lovely looking bike ! 

Any chance of some more pics ? Curiously, I'd like to see a photo of the rear brake bridge and the head-tube - might give a clue as to the builder of the frame


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## ocianbricles (8 Jun 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> This is my 1977? [no777] Rory O'Brien which has had a respray with heart-shaped keyhole cut-out lugs.
> View attachment 356165





pubrunner said:


> That's a lovely looking bike !
> 
> Any chance of some more pics ? Curiously, I'd like to see a photo of the rear brake bridge and the head-tube - might give a clue as to the builder of the frame


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## ocianbricles (8 Jun 2017)

Just back from powder-coating. . . an eightieth birthday present. the frame cost £99 in 1977 in Rory's, north Street, Romford. As a youngster in the early 'fifties I also had a Rory from Manor Park. We have also been very fortunate in that part of East London . . . Leach Marathon, Hawkes, Rivetts, Ducket, Bates of London, E G Bates, Hobbs of Barbican, to name a few . . . all within a few minutes of Stratford Broadway.


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## Old Roly (21 Jul 2017)

Just been watching Le Tour and have been shocked that it is 50 years since the death of Tom Simpson, so many memories came back, leading to looking at the Rory O’Brien website.............

I started work at Rory O’Briens at the Romford shop in, I think, July 1965, straight from school at just under £3.10s per week. I rode from home in Ilford about six miles each way every day. I stayed for just over a year and then the Saturday boy for another year. Rory was very much a shopkeeper from the Arkwright (Open all hours) school of retailing. I will never forget the day a customer came in for a puncture outfit and went home with a new bike and a puncture outfit! Rory cultivated the legend of being a man careful with his money but I remember his generosity so well. If a rider/regular customer beat the hour for the first time Rory would give them a pair of track mitts or similar gift. As a 15 year old mad keen on cycling to be introduced by your boss to Vic Gibbons on the comeback trail was like meeting royalty! The steady stream of “names” coming into the shop, having a chat, maybe a cup of tea and then seeing them relieved of their cash was a masterclass in retailing and all with a smile and another anecdote... marvellous. The interest for old Rorys and matching equipment has always eluded me but I do think that Rory would certainly encourage it with a chuckle that all the old stuff could be sold at a premium! I think Rory worked for Claud Butler before setting up on his own and I seem to remember that official letters were always addressed to Henry Nolan O’Brien but to me he will always be just Rory.

The staff at Rory’s at that time were Roger Joseph mechanic and wheelbuilder extraodinaire, short in stature with a magnificent head of ginger hair which he kept until his death three years ago. The workshop at the back of the shop was a special area where only invited guests were allowed to loiter, bribes like cheese cake, bun Belgique would usually gain access to this inner sanctum and if no bribes available just mention Fats Domino and you were in! Roger left in the late 60s when he married Carol and moved near Taunton in Somerset. He worked for the Post Office servicing their bikes as well as having an early morning post round. Roger left the Post Office in the late 80s and started his own cycle shop near Bridgwater. He continued to ride regularly but his mount of choice had not been a “Rory” for a long time but an ex Bedwell Hercules and then a Vic Edwards built Rondinella; oh how I miss those days riding in the Quantocks talking about the “old days”

Also in the shop as a Saturday boy was Terry Heath-Coleman? Ken Kirby was I think Rory’s brother-in-law and ran the Manor Park shop. When I first started it was about a year or two after Bob Tregonning had been killed in an accident. Dave Bedwell also worked in the shed at the back of the shop for a short while and Roger always said that Dave was a winner because he needed the prize money to eat; there were also stories of Bedwell’s exploits weightlifting, floors giving way etc.......I believe Bedwell moved to the West Country in the 80s? To work for Colin Lewis Cycles; where he took up kayaking and became an instructor.

Mrs O’Brien occasionally came into the shop with their daughter Penny? Rory was a wonderful boss for a wet behind the ears 15 year old and so much of what he taught me has lasted in my own working life. The day that I answered the telephone while serving a customer incurring Rory’s wrath and that “they will ring back but you might lose the sale” is a lesson that many of today’s youngsters would be well advised of.

His efforts to educate me has I think fallen on stony ground, his enthusiasm in getting me to read George Orwell’s 1984 and “Road to Wigan Pier” was wasted on me; I did read them and I think gave the right answers when questioned but I must confess have never felt the need to re-read them. Rory did however have an influence on my musical tastes, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Rory’s favourite Nellie Lutcher. Just remembered!! Rory was also a great fan of the Great Petomane (look him up) and the thought of Rory and his cronies in fits of laughter is a joy in itself.

Vic Edwards certainly built the top of the range Rorys and if I remember correctly Stan Broom used to work part time for Vic finishing the frames; spray work was usually done by Broma based at Gallows Corner, Romford. There was a story that Vic had a hand in constructing the machine guns under James Bond’s Aston Martin who knows? Vic had his own horse for which he used to make and fit horseshoes out of alloy.... they didn’t last long!

After Tom Simpson won the World Road Championship in 1965 “Fat” Albert Beurick came to the shop selling Simpson merchandise. I was so impressed that Rory knew Albert and were obviously old friends; but then Rory seemed to know everybody and everybody knew Rory and people were happy in his company, swapping stories, lots of laughter as he rung up the till........ happy days! Rory rarely spoke of his interest in sailing and it wasn’t until a friend of my fathers, who also sailed on the Blackwater, told us that Rory was as big a character on the sailing scene as he was in the cycling world. They don’t make them like that anymore but such fond memories that have lasted over 50 years and times that still bring a smile to my face.


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## mikeymustard (22 Jul 2017)

@Old Roly Great reminiscences I love the thought of Rory O'Brien laughing at Le Petomaine! It's nice to remember that these "gods" of frame building were real people, they can sometimes slip into near mythology. 
I had a conversation with someone recently who worked in the Raleigh SBDU, and claimed that if you wanted to talk to Gerald O'Donovan it was best to be done before his liquid lunch


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## ocianbricles (22 Jul 2017)

I bought my first Holdsworth "racer" before I did my National Service for the army in the 'fifties from Rory's in Manor Park. In 1975? I purchased a Rory frame from the shop in Romford. That is the first I knew of a shop in Romford. I only ever thought he ever had one shop!
Mind you, he had plenty of competition in those days locally . . . Hawkes, Rivetts, Leach Marathon, Hobbs, Upton, Bates of London, E G Bates, plus a few family-type cycle shops [for the want of a better description]. All within a short distance of Stratford Broadway.
Great memories of Rory. My Rory in those days also did 21 months in the Royal Army Ordinance Corp, in Bicester!


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## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> Mind you, he had plenty of competition in those days locally . . . Hawkes, Rivetts, *Leach Marathon*, Hobbs, Upton, Bates of London, E G Bates, plus a few family-type cycle shops [for the want of a better description]. All within a short distance of Stratford Broadway.
> Great memories of Rory. My Rory in those days also did 21 months in the Royal Army Ordinance Corp, in Bicester!



Leach Marathon, now that's a name I haven't heard in years! A clubmate had a beauty finished in a metallic lime green that I used to lust after. I've never seen Marathon mentioned on the classic bike site and they don't come up on ebay either. Do you know where the shop was and when it closed? I'm sure it was before I joined a club in '68.


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## ocianbricles (22 Jul 2017)

Leach Marathon's shop was in Martin Street, Stratford, E15. It was an isolated shop because of war-time bombing. To be honest I can't think off-hand when it closed. I remember finding a frame on a bomb debri and taking it to him for a spray, fluorescent red [thirty bob] with a sticker saying: "Renovated by Leach Marathon". He also had a shop in Leytonstone Road, Stratford, several hundred yards past Hawkes. From Maryland Station to a hundred yards past The Thatched House Pub junction boasted five cycle shops, Lou Hawkes, Martin's Mart, Leach Marathon, Reads, and of course, Rivett's of Leytonstone! There was another Reads' shop further up towards Leytonstone Church making six.
I think Leach's closed in the mid-sixties . . . not sure though!


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## ocianbricles (22 Jul 2017)

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/leach-marathon.html


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## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> Leach Marathon's shop was in Martin Street, Stratford, E15. It was an isolated shop because of war-time bombing. To be honest I can't think off-hand when it closed. I remember finding a frame on a bomb debri and taking it to him for a spray, fluorescent red [thirty bob] with a sticker saying: "Renovated by Leach Marathon". He also had a shop in Leytonstone Road, Stratford, several hundred yards past Hawkes. From Maryland Station to a hundred yards past The Thatched House Pub junction boasted five cycle shops, Lou Hawkes, Martin's Mart, Leach Marathon, Reads, and of course, Rivett's of Leytonstone! There was another Reads' shop further up towards Leytonstone Church making six.
> I think Leach's closed in the mid-sixties . . . not sure though!


Thanks for that. Rivetts must be the same place that turned into a seller of motorcycle clothing and accessories. I remember Martin's Mart, but wasn't that just a general cycle shop rather than an enthusiast's place? Back in those days as you will no doubt remember, bike shops were strictly divided between those who specialised in the clubman's scene and the run of the mill shops selling commuters and kids bikes. There was very little overlap.


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## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/leach-marathon.html


Now the picture on that page shows the frame I remember my old clubmate riding. I'd forgotten about the blue headtube and seat tube panel, but that has triggered my memory. I'll have to stop reading this thread, it makes me nostalgically weepy -


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## Pennyjane (22 Aug 2017)

Old Roly said:


> Just been watching Le Tour and have been shocked that it is 50 years since the death of Tom Simpson, so many memories came back, leading to looking at the Rory O’Brien website.............
> 
> I started work at Rory O’Briens at the Romford shop in, I think, July 1965, straight from school at just under £3.10s per week. I rode from home in Ilford about six miles each way every day. I stayed for just over a year and then the Saturday boy for another year. Rory was very much a shopkeeper from the Arkwright (Open all hours) school of retailing. I will never forget the day a customer came in for a puncture outfit and went home with a new bike and a puncture outfit! Rory cultivated the legend of being a man careful with his money but I remember his generosity so well. If a rider/regular customer beat the hour for the first time Rory would give them a pair of track mitts or similar gift. As a 15 year old mad keen on cycling to be introduced by your boss to Vic Gibbons on the comeback trail was like meeting royalty! The steady stream of “names” coming into the shop, having a chat, maybe a cup of tea and then seeing them relieved of their cash was a masterclass in retailing and all with a smile and another anecdote... marvellous. The interest for old Rorys and matching equipment has always eluded me but I do think that Rory would certainly encourage it with a chuckle that all the old stuff could be sold at a premium! I think Rory worked for Claud Butler before setting up on his own and I seem to remember that official letters were always addressed to Henry Nolan O’Brien but to me he will always be just Rory.
> 
> ...



Thank-you for this lovely reminiscence of my father Rory O'Brien. Someone recently suggested I google dad and I was delighted to find so many remember him so warmly. He didn't get you to read the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists then? I remember Tom Simpson's death because dad got me to translate an article about it from L'Equipe. Quite a challenge for my o-level French. And I had forgotten about Nelly Lutcher. I also remember his determination that no customer should leave the shop without parting with some cash. I still have my Rory, but alas unridden these days. Thank-you.


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## rche7k (6 Sep 2017)

I came across this discussion when looking for info about a possible Rory O'Brien frame I bought recently. What a great discussion and looks like its coming up on the 10th anniversary of the first post! I'm told I can't post photos until I've been here a few days. But when I can, I would like to get the group's opinion of my frame. 

In the meantime, I enjoyed the trip down memory lane. My parents and grandparents were club cyclists in Essex up until the early 60s. They may have known one or two of the older members here. My grandfather was a long-time member of University C.C. and my parents rode with (I think) Rapier Road Club. I have good memories of being taken as a kid to club time trials on a jury rigged child seat contraption and later on the back of a tandem which had kid pedals mounted above the rear crank. I think one of my jobs was to chase down empty water bottles as riders went through a rudimentary "feed zone". Or at least, I remember riders lobbing empty water bottles at my head as they went by. Probably got a time bonus if they could hit me.

Unfortunately, I don't remember any of the characters discussed here, although I do remember the shops. My dad grew up near the Bates Bros shop in Plaistow and later we lived near Rory O'Brien's and Ducketts. At the time I couldn't afford any of the good stuff, but I recently retired, nostalgia has set in, and I hope to build up my frame into something that is close to period correct and see how it rides.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. I will post frame photos when allowed.


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## Smokin Joe (6 Sep 2017)

Pennyjane said:


> Thank-you for this lovely reminiscence of my father Rory O'Brien. Someone recently suggested I google dad and I was delighted to find so many remember him so warmly. He didn't get you to read the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists then? I remember Tom Simpson's death because dad got me to translate an article about it from L'Equipe. Quite a challenge for my o-level French. And I had forgotten about Nelly Lutcher. I also remember his determination that no customer should leave the shop without parting with some cash. I still have my Rory, but alas unridden these days. Thank-you.


I was a member of your dad's club, the Easterly RC. He wasn't an active cyclist at that stage of his life (Late 1960s) but he was still a member and I remember chatting to him at a club dinner and dance. The Manor Park shop was my local bike shop.


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## rche7k (10 Sep 2017)

Would appreciate any thoughts on age of this frame. It closely matches photos on http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/r-o-b-builders.html which would make it a Rory O'Brien Championship model. The best I can come up with so far is pre-1970 because Frank Lipscombe sold his business then. Rory started his business around 1948. So the age range is 1948-1970. I can't tell which braze-ons are original and which may have been added when it was renovated. But I'm hoping that some of the veterans on this thread can suggest an approximate age based on what is there and what is missing - e.g. no braze-ons for shifters, just a lip.

New to this site so I hope the post and photos show up correctly. Thanks.


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## pubrunner (16 Sep 2017)

Hi,

That's a high quality frame that you have, most probably built by Les Ephgrave - the diamond-shaped surrounds on the rear brake bridge are something that featured on most of his frames. Yes, it is a Championship model frame; given that it has a grease nipple above the bottom bracket, I'd date this frame a few years either side of 1960, so between 1956 - 1964.


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## rche7k (17 Sep 2017)

Thanks Pubrunner. I've done some more research since my last post and found two things that agree with your date range. There is a very nicely restored bike here - http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=302357 - bought in 1962 that has brazed-on shifters - suggests my frame is pre-1962. Also, I found some history and old catalogs for the Campag dropouts that confirm the model on my frame is a 1010 Gran Sport first produced in 1952/53. So I'm leaning towards mid to late 50s, maybe very early 60s. That may be as close as I can get and it gives me a good idea of what period parts I should start looking for.


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## limey (18 Sep 2017)

Hello rche7k. I received your e-mail and although I havn't been active on Cycle Chat for a few years I think I can help with your search. I have an original Rory O'Brien catalogue from the early 1960s in good condition and with all the prices in £ s and p. I can scan it and send it to you if you send me your e-mail address. I can even send the original by post if you want. My e-mail address is alancross67@gmail .com. I also have a copy photo of Rory himself with Dave Bedwell from about 1947. I also have other items from the 60s which may be of interest to you, just dépends on what you are looking for.


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## limey (18 Sep 2017)

Montpellier, France
*New*
Hello rche7k. I received your e-mail and although I havn't been active on Cycle Chat for a few years I think I can help with your search. I have an original Rory O'Brien catalogue from the early 1960s in good condition and with all the prices in £ s and p. I can scan it and send it to you if you send me your e-mail address. I can even send the original by post if you want. My e-mail address is alancross67@gmail .com. I also have a copy photo of Rory himself with Dave Bedwell from about 1947. I also have other items from the 60s which may be of interest to you, just dépends on what you are looking for.

Incidentally I lived in East Ham and had a Saturday job at Rory's Manor Park shop until late1966 when I went off to college. I knew a lot of the characters and places in these posts. I raced and rode Rory bikes for a number of years on both road and track (herne hill), won a number of races including the Essex Junior RR Chmps in 1964. I'm now 71 and still riding. I'm also the president of my local cycling club here in Southern France.


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## Old Roly (18 Sep 2017)

My wife suggested that I look to see if anybody had read my piece about working at Rory's in the mid 60s' Being a technophobe of the highest order I had to wait until she had turned the machine on and I was so pleased to read the response from Pennyjane. The last that I had heard was that you were a head teacher at a school in East London is that correct? Your dad had an enormous effect on me as a 15 year old and I remember so clearly the day that my parents turned up at the shop unannounced to discuss my future with Rory; he did of course put their minds at rest and when I got home that night they were full of "Mr O'Brien"! a few months later I left to go into the printing trade as a trainee; but I will always remember my first employer with great fondness. In my last piece I forgot to relate the tale of the well known cyclist whose wife was not very keen on her husband's expenditure on bike stuff; it was Rory that suggested "A" should always have the same colour bike and that way "A"s wife would never know that he had a new bike and he could pay a set amount weekly, so every Friday night on his way home from work "A" would pop into the shop and pay his dues and generally go out with something new; and Mrs "A" never sussed"! rche7k mentions on the forum about his grandfather being a member of the University CC. The "Uni" was my first club. I joined in October 1963 when I was 14 years old. The clubroom was above the Greyhound pub in, I think, Leabridge Road. I was so keen I used to get there at 5.30 and had to wait until other members turned up at around 7.00! The club runs on Sunday mornings were the highlight of my week, in the summer we would do 80 mile rides, meeting at Wanstead through Epping, lunch at the Cosy Café in Sawbridgworth (The "Cosy" was a wooden bungalow set in a long piece of ground and lunchtime on a Sunday there would be scores if not hundreds of cyclists queuing or already having their lunch. I seem to remember there was a piano that was occasionally played whilst customers waited to be served) Afternoon tea would be at the Epping Roof Gardens Café and then home to Ilford. Mum always gave me five shillings (25p) for my lunch and this was usually enough but she did insist that I always had fourpence in case I had to phone home in an emergency; a bit different to today's 15 year olds I reckon. Cycling has been the central thread in my life, where I lived, my work, my friends and my attitudes to life, so much of which was forged in my time in the "Uni" John Patston, Bill Caton, Terry Barnes were the fast men at the time usually racing on a Sunday. The club runs were usually me, Steve May (my chum from school, now living and still riding regularly in Spain) Tom Osborne "Tom Oz". Charlie Mucklejohn "Muck" and Charlie Slater; these three always had a story to tell and were always ready to have a good laugh. "Muck" was about 5' 4", very wiry with enormous ears, we were stopped by the police once and when he was asked his name he said "Charles Sebastian Mucklejohn" in his best Noel Coward voice he was also the only man who could say "indubitably" in a sentence without hesitation. I was also told that "Muck" had been a good rider before the war and had won the Viking "50" without toe clips! I started racing in 1965 on the old E1 often staying at the "Uni" hut the night before having ridden up from Ilford after work. The "huts" were members of the 32nd Association and, I believe, subject to peppercorn rents from a bequest by a philanthropist pre war. Arthur "Art" Restell was the driving force behind the refurbishments and I think a lot of building supplies were re-directed from local councils. Steve May and I helped with the groundworks and I must say that without our help they would have been completed much sooner. Rod Walker was a very active member of the Uni and it was Rod that extended the back of Rory’s shop in Romford. I believe Rod is in his early 90s now. There are so many other names from the "Uni" that I cannot remember but will probably recall five minutes after this piece is sent into wherever it goes. So many of the old clubs have fallen by the wayside and have been replaced by sponsored or dotcom clubs they just don’t have the same “ring” when spoken about. The first time that we were introduced to Paul O'Kelly from the Buccaneers CC the shout went up "where's the Buccaneers"? and the reply came "on me Bucking 'ead"! this was pretty racy stuff for a 14 year old but one of my favourites had to be when a passing group of Becontree riders went by the call was "Urinals" at the top of their voices! As a greeting it leaves something to be desired but it still makes me smile. The piece by rche7k regarding the refurb by Lipscombes reminded me of 1964/5 when it ceased to be a legal requirement to have a bell fitted to the handlebars riders from all over gave their bells to Frank Lipscombe who filled his shop window at Markhouse road with them amazingly, so many of the bells were drilled for lightness they could not possibly ring but made a dull “thunk"

My wife wants the machine back now. I will get her to press the relevant buttons to fax or whatever it is to pass this on. See you up the road.... Old Roly........ And if it's not too presumptious a X for Pennyjane


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## stedlocks (18 Sep 2017)

Great post roly! I love hearing the old stories from people like yourself....as morbid as it sounds, none of these seem to have been written down, so will eventually be lost forever. I quite often pop in to see a chap near me who was around back then.....an engineer by trade, he knows so much about the older stuff and used to hang about while dick Morris was brazing things.....you guys should write it all down for posterity, and a massive part of 'our' history!

If I was more of an entrepreneur, I'd get a load of stories together.....there's a bloody good book in there!


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## rche7k (19 Sep 2017)

Nice post Old Roly. You probably just missed my grandfather - Eddie Bolton, he was a long time member of the "Uni" but passed away in 1965. He rode a racing trike in his later years.


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## Old Roly (21 Sep 2017)

Hi rche7k it’s me again! We are in the process of moving and are currently in rented accommodation in Suffolk and hopefully will be moving into our permanent home mid October.... fingers crossed, which is why I have got time to spend on reminiscing about the old days. Your grandfather was certainly very well known in the cycling world in the 1950s and 60s and still has an influence through the Eddie Bolton Fund administered by the Eastern Counties Cycling Association (ECCA) I believe the fund is for the promotion of cycling for junior riders and has had a positive impact over the years and continues to do so....his name lives on!

It’s strange how the mind works when sparked off by a photo, name or anecdote, when I saw your grandfather on his trike I immediately thought of Stan Spelling. Stan was a regular at Rory’s Manor Park shop and was a member of the Tricycle Association. I don’t think I ever saw Stan on a bicycle but I sometimes caught him on the way to work in London and I will never forget riding along with Stan in very heavy traffic on Stratford Broadway when Stan would sprint between two buses and lean to the left which lifted the right hand side of his trike off the ground so he could squeeze between the buses! There was also a story when he was riding across America that he was in an accident on an eight lane freeway where he went over the bars and bit a section of his tongue off! And I can picture him now when he was moving from his old flat to a new one towing a wardrobe along behind his trike through the traffic; what a character. Just remembered another face from Rory’s North Street shop; Errol Smith, the coolest man in town, grey Italian cut suit, white open necked shirt, black winklepickers and the biggest, blackest “DA” you have ever seen, he had a top of the range Rory which I think he rode occasionally but was much more interested in the fairer sex, he told them that he was in show business and as he was the projectionist at the ABC cinema in Romford it was only a slight bending of the truth.


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## Smokin Joe (22 Sep 2017)

Old Roly said:


> My wife suggested that I look to see if anybody had read my piece about working at Rory's in the mid 60s' Being a technophobe of the highest order I had to wait until she had turned the machine on and I was so pleased to read the response from Pennyjane. The last that I had heard was that you were a head teacher at a school in East London is that correct? Your dad had an enormous effect on me as a 15 year old and I remember so clearly the day that my parents turned up at the shop unannounced to discuss my future with Rory; he did of course put their minds at rest and when I got home that night they were full of "Mr O'Brien"! a few months later I left to go into the printing trade as a trainee; but I will always remember my first employer with great fondness. In my last piece I forgot to relate the tale of the well known cyclist whose wife was not very keen on her husband's expenditure on bike stuff; it was Rory that suggested "A" should always have the same colour bike and that way "A"s wife would never know that he had a new bike and he could pay a set amount weekly, so every Friday night on his way home from work "A" would pop into the shop and pay his dues and generally go out with something new; and Mrs "A" never sussed"! rche7k mentions on the forum about his grandfather being a member of the University CC. The "Uni" was my first club. I joined in October 1963 when I was 14 years old. The clubroom was above the Greyhound pub in, I think, Leabridge Road. I was so keen I used to get there at 5.30 and had to wait until other members turned up at around 7.00! The club runs on Sunday mornings were the highlight of my week, in the summer we would do 80 mile rides, meeting at Wanstead through Epping, lunch at the Cosy Café in Sawbridgworth (The "Cosy" was a wooden bungalow set in a long piece of ground and lunchtime on a Sunday there would be scores if not hundreds of cyclists queuing or already having their lunch. I seem to remember there was a piano that was occasionally played whilst customers waited to be served) Afternoon tea would be at the Epping Roof Gardens Café and then home to Ilford. Mum always gave me five shillings (25p) for my lunch and this was usually enough but she did insist that I always had fourpence in case I had to phone home in an emergency; a bit different to today's 15 year olds I reckon. Cycling has been the central thread in my life, where I lived, my work, my friends and my attitudes to life, so much of which was forged in my time in the "Uni" John Patston, Bill Caton, Terry Barnes were the fast men at the time usually racing on a Sunday. The club runs were usually me, Steve May (my chum from school, now living and still riding regularly in Spain) Tom Osborne "Tom Oz". Charlie Mucklejohn "Muck" and Charlie Slater; these three always had a story to tell and were always ready to have a good laugh. "Muck" was about 5' 4", very wiry with enormous ears, we were stopped by the police once and when he was asked his name he said "Charles Sebastian Mucklejohn" in his best Noel Coward voice he was also the only man who could say "indubitably" in a sentence without hesitation. I was also told that "Muck" had been a good rider before the war and had won the Viking "50" without toe clips! I started racing in 1965 on the old E1 often staying at the "Uni" hut the night before having ridden up from Ilford after work. The "huts" were members of the 32nd Association and, I believe, subject to peppercorn rents from a bequest by a philanthropist pre war. Arthur "Art" Restell was the driving force behind the refurbishments and I think a lot of building supplies were re-directed from local councils. Steve May and I helped with the groundworks and I must say that without our help they would have been completed much sooner. Rod Walker was a very active member of the Uni and it was Rod that extended the back of Rory’s shop in Romford. I believe Rod is in his early 90s now. There are so many other names from the "Uni" that I cannot remember but will probably recall five minutes after this piece is sent into wherever it goes. So many of the old clubs have fallen by the wayside and have been replaced by sponsored or dotcom clubs they just don’t have the same “ring” when spoken about. The first time that we were introduced to Paul O'Kelly from the Buccaneers CC the shout went up "where's the Buccaneers"? and the reply came "on me Bucking 'ead"! this was pretty racy stuff for a 14 year old but one of my favourites had to be when a passing group of Becontree riders went by the call was "Urinals" at the top of their voices! As a greeting it leaves something to be desired but it still makes me smile. The piece by rche7k regarding the refurb by Lipscombes reminded me of 1964/5 when it ceased to be a legal requirement to have a bell fitted to the handlebars riders from all over gave their bells to Frank Lipscombe who filled his shop window at Markhouse road with them amazingly, so many of the bells were drilled for lightness they could not possibly ring but made a dull “thunk"
> 
> My wife wants the machine back now. I will get her to press the relevant buttons to fax or whatever it is to pass this on. See you up the road.... Old Roly........ And if it's not too presumptious a X for Pennyjane


Thanks for that, Roly.

I joined the Easterely RC in 1968 and I well remember the Cosy and the Roof Gardens, also the Log Cabin at Abridge which was still there seventeen years ago and was a tea stop on the way home from club runs. Weekends "Up the Hut" were a highlight during the racing season, riding a 25 on the E1 after a skinful in the Chequers the night before were a character building experience. I remember Charlie Slater from your club, he was a bit of a character himself and a thoroughly decent bloke with time for everybody.


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## rche7k (23 Sep 2017)

Thanks for the post Old Roly. I had no idea that my grandfather's name was still "out there". I looked at the ECCA site and sure enough they still award a Junior B.A.R. trophy as the Eddie Bolton Memorial trophy. So thank you very much for letting me know. The tricycle days were pretty much over by the time I was riding around. But I think when I get done with my current project, I will see if I can get my hands on a road trike. I'm sure it takes some practice but looks like a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing your memories.


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## OKonHills (17 Oct 2017)

Can anyone remember if Rory O'Brien sold basic frames in the late 50's early 60's? I ask because I purchased a RO'B frame recently for £30. It is has all the correct transfers and the patina you would expect from a 1950's bike. My problem is when I got it home I noticed that it was considerably heavier than an F C Parkes frame I have from the same era. The lugs are basic with no cut outs or filing and the rear drop out is plain steel with no marking. At £30 maybe it is not genuine but i'n not sure why unless some owner in the distant past had it resprayed and badged it as a Rory! 
My LBS was Rory's in North St. Romford and I can remember hanging out there on Saturday mornings and getting much amusement from the witty comments on the price tags on items in the packed out front shop window. The other two shops locally were Kennistons in Victoria Road, Romford and Webb Cycles in Gidea Park. I have not seen any reference to Webbs but I can remember that they made a bike called Webb Super Circuit. I can also remember seeing Stan Brittains Viking that he used in the Tour de France displayed there. I was a member of Romford Wheelers and raced on the old E3 (Southend Road) and at Crystal Palace in the late 50's.


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## rche7k (18 Oct 2017)

As far as I can tell, Rory's custom frames used 531 tubing and Nervex or Prugnat lugs, except the Championship frame that had hand cut lugs. I haven't seen any mention of his making basic bikes. He sold "off-the-peg" bikes from several other makers, e.g. Claud Butler, Clements, etc. Its possible that you have another brand bike that was taken to Rory to be updated or refurbished and ended up with his transfers on it. I have a similar situation (photos a couple of pages back in this thread) in which a bike that is clearly a Rory frame has Lipscombe transfers on it, after having been renovated there sometime pre-1970. Having said that, there are some veterans on this thread who knew Rory and may have better information.


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## Firestorm (18 Oct 2017)

Old Roly said:


> My wife suggested that I look to see if anybody had read my piece about working at Rory's in the mid 60s' Being a technophobe of the highest order I had to wait until she had turned the machine on and I was so pleased to read the response from Pennyjane. The last that I had heard was that you were a head teacher at a school in East London is that correct? Your dad had an enormous effect on me as a 15 year old and I remember so clearly the day that my parents turned up at the shop unannounced to discuss my future with Rory; he did of course put their minds at rest and when I got home that night they were full of "Mr O'Brien"! a few months later I left to go into the printing trade as a trainee; but I will always remember my first employer with great fondness. In my last piece I forgot to relate the tale of the well known cyclist whose wife was not very keen on her husband's expenditure on bike stuff; it was Rory that suggested "A" should always have the same colour bike and that way "A"s wife would never know that he had a new bike and he could pay a set amount weekly, so every Friday night on his way home from work "A" would pop into the shop and pay his dues and generally go out with something new; and Mrs "A" never sussed"! rche7k mentions on the forum about his grandfather being a member of the University CC. The "Uni" was my first club. I joined in October 1963 when I was 14 years old. The clubroom was above the Greyhound pub in, I think, Leabridge Road. I was so keen I used to get there at 5.30 and had to wait until other members turned up at around 7.00! The club runs on Sunday mornings were the highlight of my week, in the summer we would do 80 mile rides, meeting at Wanstead through Epping, lunch at the Cosy Café in Sawbridgworth (The "Cosy" was a wooden bungalow set in a long piece of ground and lunchtime on a Sunday there would be scores if not hundreds of cyclists queuing or already having their lunch. I seem to remember there was a piano that was occasionally played whilst customers waited to be served) Afternoon tea would be at the Epping Roof Gardens Café and then home to Ilford. Mum always gave me five shillings (25p) for my lunch and this was usually enough but she did insist that I always had fourpence in case I had to phone home in an emergency; a bit different to today's 15 year olds I reckon. Cycling has been the central thread in my life, where I lived, my work, my friends and my attitudes to life, so much of which was forged in my time in the "Uni" John Patston, Bill Caton, Terry Barnes were the fast men at the time usually racing on a Sunday. The club runs were usually me, Steve May (my chum from school, now living and still riding regularly in Spain) Tom Osborne "Tom Oz". Charlie Mucklejohn "Muck" and Charlie Slater; these three always had a story to tell and were always ready to have a good laugh. "Muck" was about 5' 4", very wiry with enormous ears, we were stopped by the police once and when he was asked his name he said "Charles Sebastian Mucklejohn" in his best Noel Coward voice he was also the only man who could say "indubitably" in a sentence without hesitation. I was also told that "Muck" had been a good rider before the war and had won the Viking "50" without toe clips! I started racing in 1965 on the old E1 often staying at the "Uni" hut the night before having ridden up from Ilford after work. The "huts" were members of the 32nd Association and, I believe, subject to peppercorn rents from a bequest by a philanthropist pre war. Arthur "Art" Restell was the driving force behind the refurbishments and I think a lot of building supplies were re-directed from local councils. Steve May and I helped with the groundworks and I must say that without our help they would have been completed much sooner. Rod Walker was a very active member of the Uni and it was Rod that extended the back of Rory’s shop in Romford. I believe Rod is in his early 90s now. There are so many other names from the "Uni" that I cannot remember but will probably recall five minutes after this piece is sent into wherever it goes. So many of the old clubs have fallen by the wayside and have been replaced by sponsored or dotcom clubs they just don’t have the same “ring” when spoken about. The first time that we were introduced to Paul O'Kelly from the Buccaneers CC the shout went up "where's the Buccaneers"? and the reply came "on me Bucking 'ead"! this was pretty racy stuff for a 14 year old but one of my favourites had to be when a passing group of Becontree riders went by the call was "Urinals" at the top of their voices! As a greeting it leaves something to be desired but it still makes me smile. The piece by rche7k regarding the refurb by Lipscombes reminded me of 1964/5 when it ceased to be a legal requirement to have a bell fitted to the handlebars riders from all over gave their bells to Frank Lipscombe who filled his shop window at Markhouse road with them amazingly, so many of the bells were drilled for lightness they could not possibly ring but made a dull “thunk"
> 
> My wife wants the machine back now. I will get her to press the relevant buttons to fax or whatever it is to pass this on. See you up the road.... Old Roly........ And if it's not too presumptious a X for Pennyjane


My grandad was in the Uni, Nan was in Rosslyn ladies. Mum and Dad were in the Buccs (Dad was in the Penguin first) upto the merger with Rapier.
Dad was the record holder for the club Hillclimb from 58 til the end of the club
I knew Paul OKelly when he was a youngster . We all played football at High beech after the club Hill climb
Paul mentioned my Dads passing to a Road group as they climbed High Beech a couple of years back.


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## rche7k (27 Oct 2017)

I recently submitted an update of Rory O'Brien information to Classic Lightweights. Dedicated readers of this thread may notice some of the information came from contributors to this thread - for which I thank you. There has been some discussion about whether or not Rory used any system for frame numbering, especially since he used different builders for different models. I am building a list of frame numbers, along with model and year if known. This may end up being a fool's errand but I hope that if I can gather enough numbers some kind of numbering system will emerge.

If anyone has a Rory O'Brien and is willing to share their frame number and year if known, please reply or PM me. I appreciate whatever you can provide. Thanks.


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## OKonHills (23 Nov 2017)

Further to the post below, I have attached a photo that shows the lug work clearly. I don't think that this is a genuine Rory. 




'Can anyone remember if Rory O'Brien sold basic frames in the late 50's early 60's? I ask because I purchased a RO'B frame recently for £30. It is has all the correct transfers and the patina you would expect from a 1950's bike. My problem is when I got it home I noticed that it was considerably heavier than an F C Parkes frame I have from the same era. The lugs are basic with no cut outs or filing and the rear drop out is plain steel with no marking. At £30 maybe it is not genuine but i'n not sure why unless some owner in the distant past had it resprayed and badged it as a Rory! '


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## Montsegur Horsefly (2 Jan 2018)

As promised in the Ebay/bargains thread above, here are some photos of the Rory O'Brien I managed to pick up for £50 just before Christmas. Likely a later 1980s model. Needs a good clean and a bit of love, but delighted to snaffle this.


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## rche7k (2 Jan 2018)

Montsegur Horsefly said:


> As promised in the Ebay/bargains thread above, here are some photos of the Rory O'Brien I managed to pick up for £50 just before Christmas. Likely a later 1980s model. Needs a good clean and a bit of love, but delighted to snaffle this.
> 
> View attachment 389711
> View attachment 389712
> ...


That's a nice looking frame. I'd be interested to know the frame number if you don't mind sharing.


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## biggs682 (2 Jan 2018)

Montsegur Horsefly said:


> As promised in the Ebay/bargains thread above, here are some photos of the Rory O'Brien I managed to pick up for £50 just before Christmas. Likely a later 1980s model. Needs a good clean and a bit of love, but delighted to snaffle this.
> 
> View attachment 389711
> View attachment 389712
> ...



Very tasty indeed and that was a bargain for sure , have you ridden it yet @Montsegur Horsefly ?


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## nonowt (2 Jan 2018)

Great! Glad to see it's gone to a good home. Off the top of my head, the 531 decal are early 80s. That lovely wrap-over seat stay is worth the price on it's own.


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## Montsegur Horsefly (3 Jan 2018)

rche7k said:


> That's a nice looking frame. I'd be interested to know the frame number if you don't mind sharing.



Had a quick look this morning and there seems to be three figures on the BB. Not clear as there's quite a bit of grime. Planning to start cleaning and stripping this weekend so will let you know what is revealed.



biggs682 said:


> Very tasty indeed and that was a bargain for sure , have you ridden it yet @Montsegur Horsefly ?



Nothing meaningful as there's no rear brake lever.


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## biggs682 (3 Jan 2018)

Montsegur Horsefly said:


> Nothing meaningful as there's no rear brake lever.



oh yes i remember that


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## Montsegur Horsefly (8 Jan 2018)

rche7k said:


> That's a nice looking frame. I'd be interested to know the frame number if you don't mind sharing.



Frame number is 483.


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## Montsegur Horsefly (19 Feb 2018)

Finished. Great fun to ride, but as feared it's slightly too small for me.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Feb 2018)

Montsegur Horsefly said:


> Finished. Great fun to ride, but as feared it's slightly too small for me.
> 
> View attachment 396584


Very nice indeed.

How tall are you? You could easily replace that rather short stem and the saddle has plenty of scope to come up, possibly with a longer post.


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## midlife (19 Feb 2018)

Is it me or is the right hand shifter a bit far down?


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## Smokin Joe (19 Feb 2018)

midlife said:


> Is it me or is the right hand shifter a bit far down?


It's not just you.


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## Montsegur Horsefly (21 Feb 2018)

midlife said:


> Is it me or is the right hand shifter a bit far down?



Sorted.


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## Lonestar (15 May 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Thanks for that. Rivetts must be the same place that turned into a seller of motorcycle clothing and accessories. I remember Martin's Mart, but wasn't that just a general cycle shop rather than an enthusiast's place? Back in those days as you will no doubt remember, bike shops were strictly divided between those who specialised in the clubman's scene and the run of the mill shops selling commuters and kids bikes. There was very little overlap.



Martins Mart was where my second bike was bought...A Kalkoff after my first bike a Dawes was nicked.It's now a funeral parlorm,now...I still pass it quite a bit.
Wonder when it closed and where the shopkeeper went but it was many years ago so perhaps I can guess.


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## ocianbricles (18 May 2019)

Rivett's were motor cycle factors well before they retailed cycles. I have a 1952 Rivett's built by Slasher, his frame builder.
They also had at least two good track riders Clive Parker and Dennis Talbot. Opposite Rivett's was a general cycle shop named Reads and further down the Leytonstone Road towards Stratford, was Martin's Mart cycle shop and further down towards Maryland Point was The great well-known clubman's shop and frame builder Lou Hawkes. Stratford was also blessed with Leach Marathon cycle frame builder which is now buried under the Olympic Park.
PS. picture is a Rory O'Brien powder-coated in bronze/copper 20 years ago for a my 65th birthday, it was purchased in 1973 in the Romford shop.


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## midlife (18 May 2019)

Ohh! Any better pics than your Avatar? Looks classy


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## Stroud (2 May 2020)

pubrunner said:


> Hi griffks and welcome to the forum.
> 
> I'm pretty certain that they wouldn't have had a frame numbering sequence - because so many different makers built for Rory O'Brien.
> If you have a Rory O'Brien frame, I'd love to see a pic of it. My Rory O'Brien frame had a grease nipple on the crank which to my knowledge is rare on bikes after the early 60s.
> ...


I have my late Dads Rory O Brian frame which I am planning to renovate.
It has the grease nipple as you mention with a frame number of
247 8074 if you have any suggestions of how I can date it that would be helpful.


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## biggs682 (2 May 2020)

Stroud said:


> I have my late Dads Rory O Brian frame which I am planning to renovate.
> It has the grease nipple as you mention with a frame number of
> 247 8074 if you have any suggestions of how I can date it that would be helpful.



Have a look on classic lightweights

Oh and some pictures please


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