# How Steep is...'Steep!?'



## mickwood (16 Jan 2009)

As many of you know I'm a newbie, just bought the bike last month and am slowly building up my distances and fitness in and around the Peak District.

Whilst asking about distances etc people talk about 'hilly' rides and 'steep' sections but...isn't it all relative? If your from Norfolk then your perception of hilly and steep will be different than if your from the Lakes?

I was doing my weekly 40 mile commute between nights and noticed that one of the hills I have to get up was signed as a 12% incline and I wondered how this faired with others? Is that steep? (feels steep to me, obviously!) again...just trying to get a benchmark!


----------



## asterix (16 Jan 2009)

It is relative as you say. However, 12% is a definite incline in anyone's opinion I'd suggest.

If you want really steep then we'd be talking about 20% e.g. Winnatts or 25% White Horse Bank, even 33% Rosedale Chimney Bank.

The continental climbs are less steep but go on for a lot, lot longer.


----------



## mickwood (16 Jan 2009)

Thanks asterix! Nice to have an idea in my head now, at least when conversations start I'll have a bit of an idea!


----------



## marinyork (16 Jan 2009)

I think Winnats is about 23%. 12% is definitely steep. That said there's no escaping them for some people. All my routes back from town have a gradient of around that (12%) or steeper, except one. My regular loop has a 10% on it, although overall that isn't a bad climb at all. There are a lot of 15%s knocking around in Derbyshire on more obscure country lanes. You won't meet them on every hill but will bump into them. Whenever I talk to people about the Snake they seem to prefer Winnats to an 8 mile gradual slog on the Snake Pass.


----------



## Eat MY Dust (16 Jan 2009)

The highclere challenge boast 2 climbs, one of 20% and the other 30%. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but there was a lot of seasoned cyclist walking up them (the 30% one anyway) I managed to grind my way up (just!!)


----------



## mickwood (16 Jan 2009)

marinyork said:


> I think Winnats is about 23%. 12% is definitely steep. That said there's no escaping them for some people. All my routes back from town have a gradient of around that (12%) or steeper, except one. My regular loop has a 10% on it, although overall that isn't a bad climb at all. There are a lot of 15%s knocking around in Derbyshire on more obscure country lanes. You won't meet them on every hill but will bump into them. Whenever I talk to people about the Snake they seem to prefer Winnats to an 8 mile gradual slog on the Snake Pass.



That's cool info, so I can be fairly proud of doing the 12% then. Not the steepest out there but hard enough to be an acheivement 

I'm getting close to trying the hill out of Beeley onto the moor (don't know how steep but it's long), I normally go down it and everytime I'm asking.....could I get UP it? I did see a couple of bikers walking up it a while ago and it sort of put me off for a bit but I think I may give it go!


----------



## xpc316e (16 Jan 2009)

Ditchling Beacon on the London to Brighton route climbs 158 metres in 1.6 km, so it averages 10%. I reckon that is steep, and fairly long for a British hill. It has that awful way of each turn ahead appearing to be the summit, until you get to it and find that the road climbs further still.


----------



## marinyork (16 Jan 2009)

mickwood said:


> That's cool info, so I can be fairly proud of doing the 12% then. Not the steepest out there but hard enough to be an acheivement
> 
> I'm getting close to trying the hill out of Beeley onto the moor (don't know how steep but it's long), I normally go down it and everytime I'm asking.....could I get UP it? I did see a couple of bikers walking up it a while ago and it sort of put me off for a bit but I think I may give it go!



Yeah definitely on a long ride. 

They are all regarded as nasty round there. Baslow hill is regarded as bad, probably as it's a more common route. Beeley and Sydnope are nasty, especially Sydnope. Looking at the other hills you've done recently I don't think you'd have any more trouble doing Beeley. They are all about 600 or 700ft, just plain hard but you've already done a few like that.


----------



## a_n_t (16 Jan 2009)

depends how fit you get!
10% seemed steep to me at first, now they are easy!
15% still not "steep" but getting harder.
over 20% is steep for me now but do-able
done a few 25-30% and they're horrible [but strangely addictive!]


----------



## fossyant (16 Jan 2009)

Steeper than 1 in 5 gets nasty, especially if you don't have granny gears.

12% is a good climb.....


----------



## Randochap (16 Jan 2009)

mickwood said:


> Whilst asking about distances etc people talk about 'hilly' rides and 'steep' sections but...isn't it all relative? If your from Norfolk then your perception of hilly and steep will be different than if your from the Lakes?



Here in Canada, riders from British Columbia and western Alberta tend to be good hillclimbers, for good reason -- we live in the mountains ... big friggin mountains. 

On the prairies, it's as flat as a pancake. But then they have to contend with some serious headwinds.

Here on the coast, we have constant rollers _and _headwinds!

Just up the coast from here, we have a set of 21 degree switchbacks that you have to hit just right. If you miss a shift, you have a long walk to the next spot you can get on the bike and achieve enough momentum from a stop to get rolling. There are few cyclists who can actually ride the whole set of three switch backs. I missed the shift to my granny the first time I tried it. Last summer, I made it all the way up in a 23" gear. It was a hot day with the sun reflecting off the cliffs. Tough! They came at km 140 of a 300 km (186 mi) day, with 3900 metres (12,795 ft) total climbing.

Different climbs have different character and effects to boot. There are plenty of 12-16% grades around here which soon total up to the same as you'd do on the gentler, longer climbs in the Rockies, which obviously lead to much higher elevations. The rollers seem to hurt more.


----------



## jimboalee (16 Jan 2009)

12% is steep.







Here is the sheet out of my Dawes Giro 500 workbook. Notice I end the range at 12%. At this gradient, I grovell at 6.8 mph.
Notice also the two framed cells at the top of the sheet. These are from months ( years ) of riding. 'Cruising speed' is for a whole day, not just an hour or two.

Some of the figures, such as 'Max power available' might look a little adrift, but the calcs work and I get less than 1% error when estimating a 200 km Audax.

A gradient steeper than 12% is worthy of a slow walk if it is midway through the said 200 km Audax.

The hills in San Francisco were within an hour's ride, so I gave them the whole works, and beat them.


----------



## fossyant (16 Jan 2009)

Jim, you need locking up...... you are worse than me.....and I don't have your data........


----------



## LeeW (16 Jan 2009)

For me I'd say anything steeper than 1:10 is steep, anything over 1:5 is very steep and anything over 1:3 is stupidly steep (yes, I have ridden one, hardknott).


----------



## RedBike (16 Jan 2009)

I think it is relative. I did a ride in Liverpool at the end of last year. A few of local riders in the group were moaning that we were going an un-necassarily hilly way. As far as I was concerned we hadn't seen a hill all day!

The hills in the peaks are generally short, sharp and steep. For example, I belive the maxium gradient on Mount Ventoux is only 10%. So in theory Ventoux is never as steep as your 12% hill. (Probably 20 times longer though).


----------



## HLaB (16 Jan 2009)

Th steepest I think I've been up is a 21% (about 1 in 4.75). I remember when my flat bar road bike (now dropped) got stuck in the 39T chain ring on one of these climbs, it certainly felt 'steep' then.

In general and I don't know why I can breeze up some supposed to be steeper gradients where other lesser gradients seem hard. I try not to think whether a hill is steep or not until I've downloaded the recorded garmin edge output to the PC.


----------



## Skip Madness (17 Jan 2009)

RedBike said:


> The hills in the peaks are generally short, sharp and steep. For example, I belive the maxium gradient on Mount Ventoux is only 10%. So in theory Ventoux is never as steep as your 12% hill. (Probably 20 times longer though).


This profile from this page indicates that the Ventoux's steepest pitch is actually 12% as well (for the sake of pedantry):







The website it comes from, APM, is a work of art.


----------



## mickwood (17 Jan 2009)

marinyork said:


> Yeah definitely on a long ride.
> 
> They are all regarded as nasty round there. Baslow hill is regarded as bad, probably as it's a more common route. Beeley and Sydnope are nasty, especially Sydnope. Looking at the other hills you've done recently I don't think you'd have any more trouble doing Beeley. They are all about 600 or 700ft, just plain hard but you've already done a few like that.



Thanks! I think I'll try beeley this week...maybe...

I'm gonna try and do a 35 miler to Elton cafe so I may swing back from there and see how it works!!


----------



## colly (17 Jan 2009)

a_n_t said:


> depends how fit you get!
> 10% seemed steep to me at first, now they are easy!
> 15% still not "steep" but getting harder.
> over 20% is steep for me now but do-able
> done a few 25-30% and they're horrible [but *strangely addictive*!]




That is SO true !


----------



## jimboalee (17 Jan 2009)

I can only agree about the relationship with where you usually ride.

In 1998, riding the TdF route up the Wicklow Gap, I was joined by a group from Essex. They really suffered, as apposed to me who rode the Castleton Classic and Tour de Cotswolds shortly before the trip to Dublin.


----------



## Landslide (17 Jan 2009)

mickwood said:


> Thanks! I think I'll try beeley this week...maybe...
> 
> I'm gonna try and do a 35 miler to *Elton cafe *so I may swing back from there and see how it works!!



The bacon and mushroom butties are ace.

Beeley's a nice climb, go on and get yourself up it!


----------



## doyler78 (17 Jan 2009)

Did a quick skim over this so don't think it has been clarified so apologies if it has but are the gradients that you are all referring to for those climbs in Britain average or max gradients?


----------



## purplepolly (17 Jan 2009)

According to this tool, the downhill section of my morning commute is 5 - 6% but the return route is 11%. As the rest of the area is fairly flat, that's steep. 

http://www.heywhatsthat.com/profiler.html


----------



## a_n_t (17 Jan 2009)

doyler78 said:


> are the gradients that you are all referring to for those climbs in Britain average or max gradients?




definately max!


----------



## mickwood (17 Jan 2009)

Landslide said:


> The bacon and mushroom butties are ace.
> 
> Beeley's a nice climb, go on and get yourself up it!



What? even for us weak and feeble vegetarian type wierdos??


----------



## HLaB (17 Jan 2009)

doyler78 said:


> Did a quick skim over this so don't think it has been clarified so apologies if it has but are the gradients that you are all referring to for those climbs in Britain average or max gradients?





a_n_t said:


> definately max!


I remember watching a stage in the vuelta and for the last x kilometers it averaged 21%, maxing at 24%, now that is steep


----------



## yenrod (17 Jan 2009)

asterix said:


> It is relative as you say. However, 12% is a definite incline in anyone's opinion I'd suggest.
> 
> If you want really steep then we'd be talking about 20% e.g. Winnatts or 25% White Horse Bank, even 33% Rosedale Chimney Bank.
> 
> *The continental climbs are less steep but go on for a lot, lot longer*.



Thats what I like...


----------



## RedBike (19 Jan 2009)

> I'm gonna try and do a 35 miler to *Elton cafe *so I may swing back from there and see how it works!!



Well? How did it work out. 
Hurry up with that blog entry!


----------



## mickwood (19 Jan 2009)

I've just got back dude! Knackered...but an eventful ride to say the least - I'll blog away after my bath


----------



## gbs (23 Feb 2009)

Eat MY Dust said:


> The highclere challenge boast 2 climbs, one of 20% and the other 30%. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but there was a lot of seasoned cyclist walking up them (the 30% one anyway) I managed to grind my way up (just!!)



Well done! By 30 % D assume you mean 30m altitude gain (climb) for every 100m horizontal gain. What chainwheel:cog sizes did you use?


----------



## Eat MY Dust (24 Feb 2009)

gbs said:


> Well done! By 30 % D assume you mean 30m altitude gain (climb) for every 100m horizontal gain. What chainwheel:cog sizes did you use?



TBH I only know what I was told. I've actually no idea how this all works!!

I was using 34,25. It was the most physically challenging things I've done in my life! I had done very little training for the whole event other than my commute and a couple of 50 milers. The 1st 40 miles were OK, it was the last 80 that did me in! If you like hills it's a great event.


----------



## Will1985 (24 Feb 2009)

mickwood said:


> If your from Norfolk then your perception of hilly and steep will be different than if your from the Lakes?


Norfolk is not flat like East Lincolnshire, but gently rolling +-25m! There aren't really any challenging hills but the steepest I can think of is Gas Hill in Norwich - 15-20% for 200m but due to its length you can attack it fairly easily.

However, when I came to university my perception of steep and hills definitely changed and now I can cope with them better.


----------



## Tynan (24 Feb 2009)

Ditchling is the steepest I've tried, far harder toward the end of the L2B and with people all over it, I fancy another go with FNRTTC, even using a double this time

A long time ago on an MTB I got off on Suicide Hill heading to Highgate, there's a shocker running from Tufnell Park up the side of Highgate Cemetary


----------



## ColinJ (24 Feb 2009)

This is the top of the 25% section of Mytholm Steeps on the outskirts of Hebden Bridge.







That one certainly blows the cobwebs out... 

This is Midgley Road up from Mytholmroyd. It maxes out at about 18%.






This is the top of Horsehold Road, across the valley from Mythom Steeps. I reckon that it is close to 25% up there.


----------



## Tynan (24 Feb 2009)

I dimly remember Hebden Bridge as somewhere made up entirely of rain, moors and hills

my regular route these days has almost no hills whatsoever other than some inclines, and I like that very well, I get the Bow Flyover to practice climbing on


----------



## yello (24 Feb 2009)

I used to ride around Highgate, there are some tough climbs there.

For me, it's not just the percentage or the length, there's something about the composition that makes a climb hard. For instance, I have a couple of climbs near me of a couple of km each, they average maybe 6 or 7% but have sections of 12 or 13%. They're challenging, especially when I'm tired, but nothing I'm not now used to. It's fairly easy to drop into a steady rhythm on those.

Far harder for me is a short stretch of road, and I'm taking a couple of hundred meters, of 9 to 13% that follows a longish incline of 6%. I can't get that one right. It still does me.

There's also a few short sharp climbs of 18, 19 & 21%. I can climb those on fixed (63") - but only because they only require balls out effort for 10 or so seconds. 

But, yes, as a general statement, I consider 12% as "steep".


----------



## ColinJ (24 Feb 2009)

Tynan said:


> I dimly remember Hebden Bridge as somewhere made up entirely of rain, moors and hills


Hills? What hills! This is a typical flat Hebden Bridge street...






I took the picture at the weekend. I've been walking past that street for 20 years and I've never been up it because it is a cul-de-sac, but it suddenly struck me that I ought to have a go at cycling up it this year! I reckon it is close to 30%. I'll take a stroll over there with my GPS and measure it some time.


----------



## jay clock (24 Feb 2009)

Last year in NZ I had the steepest hill of my laden touring life - 3.7km from sea level to 370m, but the first 1km was flat so that makes the rest about 14% average. I resorted to 250m then a stop and a rest. Air temperature was over 30degC and bike had about 17kg on it. 

At least it was tarmac-ed! It was only done a couple of years back. I did an analysis of it on mapmyrun.com and it peaks at 19%!! see here and click on elevation on the right to see the profile http://www.mapmyrun.com/route/nz/coromandel/740915953612

for some reason if in miles it is 18%, but 19% in km.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (24 Feb 2009)

Definitely agree with the comments re it's what you are used to. I always considered myself to be a reasonable climber, but when I first moved to West Somerset/North Devon (Quantocks, Brendons, Exmoor etc.) I rapidly revised that view

However, after 3 years here, I now find myself seeking out new hills to "test" (not difficult, on basis that none of my rides have any flattish stretch of more than 0.5 mile, and 15%-20% hills and 1 to 3 mile climbs abound) 

...and remember, if you go up, there should be a glorious descent (assuming your start and finish are the same).


----------



## Domino (24 Feb 2009)

The hill out my village on the O/S map says at least says 14% (but I suspect a few bits are slightly more and it's an average). I can do it using the granny ring on my Giant every time but I'm sweating like a good un. But my 16 year old 35lb 3 gear city bike jallopy is a no go. I've never managed it on that and have to get off and walk every time. Well it's got full mudguards and keeps the splatter off! The steepness does depend on the bike as well.


----------



## Randochap (24 Feb 2009)

This is the 18% section of Hydro Hill, on Highway 4, from Port Alberni to Tofino, Vancouver Island. While it isn't the steepest climb on VI by a long shot, it is pretty sustained.






As you can see, one decent is followed by another huge climb, so you can't escape the pain, either way.

This shot is taken on the return from Tofino, at the 225km mark of the Pacific Rim" 600km Randonnee. Note rider. This is just one hill of hundreds, including two major passes, on the route for a total of 4700m (15,420 ft) of climbing.


----------



## Mortiroloboy (28 Feb 2009)

There is a village not too far from Petersfield called steep, and it's , er, very steep, so rather aptly named.


----------



## ColinJ (28 Feb 2009)

User259iroloboy said:


> There is a village not too far from Petersfield called steep, and it's , er, very steep, so rather aptly named.


You're tempting me to ride over to Steep Lane with my camera...


----------



## jimboalee (28 Feb 2009)

Imagine my disapointment. I'd ridden up and down some fairly steep roads, only to find this one was a one way street - DOWN.


----------



## andrew_s (28 Feb 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Imagine my disapointment. I'd ridden up and down some fairly steep roads, only to find this one was a one way street - DOWN.


What spoilsports!
There's a hill in Harlech that's signposted 40%, and that's one way downhill as well


----------



## elduderino (28 Feb 2009)

Here in Stoke we have quite a famous(within Stoke anyway) hill known as the killer mile. 
It's quite popular with joggers, I've only ever seen one other cyclist going up it. The first three quarter's of it are at a 22% grade and then bam! the last quarter is 25%. It certainly burns the thighs on a double chainring road bike. I usually zig zag the last part.

As someone else has said, I find it strangley addictive and often finish my rides with it before the descent home.


----------



## clavicle (1 Mar 2009)

*Steep?*

You guys have missed the point....it depends which way you're going

Ascending...ANYTHING that forces you into your lowest gear
Descending...vertical!


----------



## Over The Hill (2 Mar 2009)

I did try to avoid hills when I started cycling a couple of years ago but now my favourite ride includes this ...







which is Watership Down in Hampshire. I go over it one way (not quite as steep from the other side) along a mile and then back over again.
I have just worked out the steeper hill to be 110m rise over 700m distance which I make about 16%. So that is what I would call steep. Now and again it catches me and my front wheel lifts up. 
I have stopped half way for a swig but never walked it!


----------

