# Computer buying advice, please



## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

Hello all
I have a clunky windows-7-running PC at the moment, that sometimes appears to run on geological timescales. 
I was thinking of upgrading anyway, as it won't run the latest version of photoshop. But now my Microsoft Office suite won't run on it, either, so rather than fork out for Windows 10 on my existing thing, when any new computer I buy will come with it, I've decided to get the replacement now rather than in a few months' time.

I want it to run the latest version of Photoshop - tech requirements here (and copied at the bottom of this post). I'm aiming for the 'recommended' spec, not the minimum, to give a degree of future-proofing, but won't be needing to run a 4k screen.

I _think_ this computer meets the requirements, but as I know bugger all about how computers work, and the two descriptions appear to use different terms for the same thing in places (like SSE4.2 - does an i7 processor do that??), could someone who understands these things tell me if the Dell will do the job? I did have a look on various websites, but couldn't find anything else that seemed to make the grade (at least, not without paying £1000s).







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## StuAff (19 Sep 2021)

That Dell is more than up to the job, but pretty much anything out there these days is. Photoshop will be happy on any modern system (and plenty of older ones too- my 2010 Mac Pro makes ye olde CS3 version fly & would be perfectly capable of running the new version on Windows though not Mac OS). I'd strongly recommend shopping around- Dell's own site has the same spec, but with 2TB HD and a 27" 1080p monitor thrown in, for £3 more. https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/desktops-and-all-in-ones/xps-tower/spd/xps-8940-desktop/cdx89430 Were it me, I'd go elsewhere though. Dell do have form for trying to sell add-ons like warranty and anti-virus in somewhat underhand ways, and for some decidedly ropey parts choices like proprietary power supplies, see the rather comprehensive GamersNexus takedown here. You can almost certainly get more machine for less money elsewhere. AMD is generally beating Intel in the CPU market at the moment. 32+ GB of RAM may be a better option than 16 GB, depending on your file sizes. GPU acceleration does benefit Photoshop, but is is much less important than having enough RAM, and spending more money on a graphics card seems to bring diminishing returns (even the very fastest cards get barely faster results than a 3060). See here for a comprehensive- possibly too comprehensive- guide.


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## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

StuAff said:


> That Dell is more than up to the job, but pretty much anything out there these days is. Photoshop will be happy on any modern system (and plenty of older ones too- my 2010 Mac Pro makes ye olde CS3 version fly & would be perfectly capable of running the new version on Windows though not Mac OS). I'd strongly recommend shopping around- Dell's own site has the same spec, but with 2TB HD and a 27" 1080p monitor thrown in, for £3 more. https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/desktops-and-all-in-ones/xps-tower/spd/xps-8940-desktop/cdx89430 Were it me, I'd go elsewhere though. Dell do have form for trying to sell add-ons like warranty and anti-virus in somewhat underhand ways, and for some decidedly ropey parts choices like proprietary power supplies, see the rather comprehensive GamersNexus takedown here. You can almost certainly get more machine for less money elsewhere. AMD is generally beating Intel in the CPU market at the moment. 32+ GB of RAM may be a better option than 16 GB, depending on your file sizes. GPU acceleration does benefit Photoshop, but is is much less important than having enough RAM, and spending more money on a graphics card seems to bring diminishing returns (even the very fastest cards get barely faster results than a 3060). See here for a comprehensive- possibly too comprehensive- guide.


Thanks for that! Can you recommend a better place to look? I did try finding other options, but found a lot of places didn't have things in stock, or I couldn't work out whether the spec matched what Adobe said I needed.


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Can you recommend a better place to look?


*SCAN*?


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## StuAff (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Thanks for that! Can you recommend a better place to look? I did try finding other options, but found a lot of places didn't have things in stock, or I couldn't work out whether the spec matched what Adobe said I needed.


Lots of places have lots of things out of stock at the moment, so this is not surprising! GPUs in particular are either out of stock or ££££. But (unless you're a gamer) you don't need a powerful card, even for 4K. I can only reiterate that pretty much anything these days is perfectly good for photo editing. +1 to @ColinJ suggestion of Scan. Novatech (local to me) are pretty good. See also Overclockers, CCL, eBuyer, PC Specialist…


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## midlife (19 Sep 2021)

Have you thought of building your own? Both my lads have using pc builder plus parts from the above suppliers.


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## Arrowfoot (19 Sep 2021)

It will more than do the job. Speed for photoshop, ample storage, memory etc.

Dell is a reliable. No need for the additional warranty etc. There are hundreds of cheaper PCs with similar specs or even higher specs but it also means you need to factor other things including consuming time and effort. Some folks are up to it.


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## HMS_Dave (19 Sep 2021)

Its more than up to the task although i don't like it's storage options. It doesn't state whether the SSD is NVME (super fast drive) or normal 2.5" SSD drive, the fact that it doesn't specify it leads me to believe its the latter, which isn't the end of the world, but is quite a bit slower than NVME, especially for high data transfers and 1TB HDD's still being shipped in a £1500 machine in 2021 is a bit of a mickey take, IMO. 

For your use case, you perhaps could lower your GPU to something like a RTX 3060 (not TI) and save some money without significant impact to your Photoshop program.

Something like this https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sca...12gb-evga-rtx-3060-1tb-m2-ssd-win-10-see-info


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## Grant Fondo (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Thanks for that! Can you recommend a better place to look? I did try finding other options, but found a lot of places didn't have things in stock, or I couldn't work out whether the spec matched what Adobe said I needed.


Hi @Spinney ... we need more info to give you a good recommendation. What spec is your pc? Processor and graphics. Key things for running latest photoshop are (roughly) cpu less than 10 yrs old, gpu less than 5 yrs old.
The £1500 Dell will of course run it, but so would something half that price.


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## Cycleops (19 Sep 2021)

I’ve upgraded my wife’s PC running on Win7 to 10, it was FoC. I believe you can still get it:
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-10-download/
It will analyse your computer and tell you if it’s suitable for installation. Might be worth a try, download takes a long time.
Do you really need a PC? What do you want to run on it? These days iPads are very powerful and are virtually a PC replacement. You can attach a keyboard and there’s mouse support. So much easier to use and doesn’t take up much space plus will be updated well into the future.


View: https://youtu.be/Un7Z56DFDRA


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 Sep 2021)

You say you PC is clunky but have not said how old it is or what processor, memory or disk drive you have

Based on this I would have to assume that it is probably over 5 years old

probably quite a bit over

The problem is that although a PC will continue to work perfectly well for ages, the memory can develop problems and the disk drive can as well

but generally the problem is that the software keep demanding more and more memory and more and more processor power

hence after a while you need to upgrade

It looks like it is that time for you

as far as where to go - I have had PCs from Currys and from refurbishes - all have been fine
I would be careful about laptops from refurbishes - the battery may be on its way out - allow for getting a new one in a year or so

but any reasonably recent PC will run Photoshop just fine - just make sure ot has a lot of memory


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## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

midlife said:


> Have you thought of building your own? Both my lads have using pc builder plus parts from the above suppliers.


That's not for me. I haven't enough knowledge or interest. I'd rather spend more money than the time it would take.


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## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

Cycleops said:


> I’ve upgraded my wife’s PC running on Win7 to 10, it was FoC. I believe you can still get it:
> https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-10-download/
> It will analyse your computer and tell you if it’s suitable for installation. Might be worth a try, download takes a long time.
> Do you really need a PC? What do you want to run on it? These days iPads are very powerful and are virtually a PC replacement. You can attach a keyboard and there’s mouse support. So much easier to use and doesn’t take up much space plus will be updated well into the future.
> ...



Thanks for the ideas. I do need a PC - I work from home, and need a big screen (or two screens) to have multiple documents open at once. Space isn't a problem, as I have a dedicated (small) room as an office.


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## Grant Fondo (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Hello all
> I have a clunky windows-7-running PC at the moment, that sometimes appears to run on geological timescales.
> I was thinking of upgrading anyway, as it won't run the latest version of photoshop. But now my Microsoft Office suite won't run on it, either, so rather than fork out for Windows 10 on my existing thing, when any new computer I buy will come with it, I've decided to get the replacement now rather than in a few months' time.
> 
> ...


As I mentioned above, this pc https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9204986?clickPR=plp:35:36
will run latest Photoshop on Win 10.
Won't be as snappy as the Dell you saw but just to prove you don't need a high spec pc at £1k+


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## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

Grant Fondo said:


> Hi @Spinney ... we need more info to give you a good recommendation. What spec is your pc? Processor and graphics. Key things for running latest photoshop are (roughly) cpu less than 10 yrs old, gpu less than 5 yrs old.
> The £1500 Dell will of course run it, but so would something half that price.


My current one is probably about 5 years old. It runs photoshop, but slowly, and will not run the latest version (which has some cool features I'd like to use). I was basing my choice of the Dell (or something with similar capabilities) on what Adobe said would be needed - and looked at the 'recommended' rather than the minimum requirements as I hoped that would mean the computer would last longer before it reached the stage of needing replacing due to new software needing more memory etc.

This is what my computer thinks it is. I bought it before I started using Photoshop - which is the only really graphics-heavy thing I use.


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## alicat (19 Sep 2021)

Hi @Spinney 

My local computer shop builds a lot of PCs for gaming. Do you have a LCS that could upgrade your PC for Photoshop or sell you a new PC with your needs in mind?


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## Grant Fondo (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> My current one is probably about 5 years old. It runs photoshop, but slowly, and will not run the latest version (which has some cool features I'd like to use). I was basing my choice of the Dell (or something with similar capabilities) on what Adobe said would be needed - and looked at the 'recommended' rather than the minimum requirements as I hoped that would mean the computer would last longer before it reached the stage of needing replacing due to new software needing more memory etc.
> 
> This is what my computer thinks it is. I bought it before I started using Photoshop - which is the only really graphics-heavy thing I use.
> View attachment 610059


Ok, so your current AMD processor is 10 years old with onboard graphics which is the reason its struggling. The Argos one I suggested is vastly quicker, the Dell one you posted is quicker still, but not worth the extra unless you are a gamer (like me ) ... the graphics card in the Dell costs around £650-£700 on its own, way too powerful for photoshop.
Happy to help with any more techy queries


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## StuAff (19 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> My current one is probably about 5 years old. It runs photoshop, but slowly, and will not run the latest version (which has some cool features I'd like to use). I was basing my choice of the Dell (or something with similar capabilities) on what Adobe said would be needed - and looked at the 'recommended' rather than the minimum requirements as I hoped that would mean the computer would last longer before it reached the stage of needing replacing due to new software needing more memory etc.
> 
> This is what my computer thinks it is. I bought it before I started using Photoshop - which is the only really graphics-heavy thing I use.
> View attachment 610059


You could definitely wring a bit more speed out of that (memory upgrade- 8GB is entry level for most tasks, and an SSD- even a SATA one will make a massive difference), but you're probably going to be better off going shopping. Don't buy a system with only a hard drive- unless you plan to upgrade it immediately. Windows 10 on HD is like wading through treacle, when I got another SSD for my Mac it was a massive improvement. You'll probably still want a hard drive for most of your data, unless you'd like to spend a lot more money for very little extra performance. Definitely 16+ GB of RAM. It doesn't sound like you need a dedicated graphics card at all, and you can always add one later. One of the current AMD Ryzen 5 5600G or 5700G CPUs (G= includes graphics) should do you nicely. Under a grand from Scan or others...


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## Spinney (19 Sep 2021)

alicat said:


> Hi @Spinney
> 
> My local computer shop builds a lot of PCs for gaming. Do you have a LCS that could upgrade your PC for Photoshop or sell you a new PC with your needs in mind?


I don't know of one. I'm in a small village, and have used a local chap for repair and a memory upgrade a few years ago, but no real way of knowing how trustworthy they would be if I was buying something. There are places like Curry's in Bristol, but I'm wary of taking advice from chains like that - I've found variable quality of 'advice' when buying other kinds of things. Good suggestion though - I could ask on the village facebook group for recommendations.


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## Spinney (20 Sep 2021)

StuAff said:


> Definitely 16+ GB of RAM. It doesn't sound like you need a dedicated graphics card at all, and you can always add one later. One of the current AMD Ryzen 5 5600G or 5700G CPUs (G= includes graphics) should do you nicely. Under a grand from Scan or others...


There are some aspects of photoshop accelerated using a graphics processor (by which I assume they mean a separate processor), and some that won't work without a GPU. While I don't use most of these at the moment, I'm still learning photoshop and wouldn't want to rule out being able to use them in the future for the sake of a few £100 (this computer will also be around 80% business use, so I can claim 80% of the VAT back, and offset 80% of the rest against tax, which helps reduce the 'ouch' factor on overall price!)



Grant Fondo said:


> Happy to help with any more techy queries


Since you offer, kind sir...!

Does the Intel i5 (in the top result on the SCAN page) and/or AMD Ryzen 5 5600X satisfy the photoshop requirements? (I have no idea what SSE 4.2 means!)






I think a 2 GB GPU (that's the NVIDIA T400 ???) is fine as I'm not going for a 4k monitor.

The Hard Disc space requirement - is that just a matter of not filling up the 1TB storage? What does "1 TB M.2" mean.

Do SCAN have a good reputation for keeping to delivery promises? At the moment they are saying they have all the components in stock, but it will take 25-30 working days for them to build the thing. I can live with that, but not if it's likely to stretch much beyond.

[Photoshop requirements again in case they're helpful to answer the above!]


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## MartinQ (20 Sep 2021)

SSE4.2 was introduced about 13 years ago. Most cpus will have it these days, I guess it might have been an issue 5-10 years ago.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/computer/comments/jhu1va/which_intel_cpu_do_support_sse_42/
Its worthwhile doing a final check before clicking buy, but I'd assume it would be supported.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-know-if-my-CPU-supports-SSE4-2


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## Grant Fondo (20 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> There are some aspects of photoshop accelerated using a graphics processor (by which I assume they mean a separate processor), and some that won't work without a GPU. While I don't use most of these at the moment, I'm still learning photoshop and wouldn't want to rule out being able to use them in the future for the sake of a few £100 (this computer will also be around 80% business use, so I can claim 80% of the VAT back, and offset 80% of the rest against tax, which helps reduce the 'ouch' factor on overall price!)
> 
> 
> Since you offer, kind sir...!
> ...


Not a problem. Yes, i have used Scan many times, they are a reputable company.
Those two pc's have very good processors, the AMD one is the best.
The T400 graphics card is the weak link but it will run Photoshop at lower resolutions. What if you go 4K in the future though? You will need a new card. At this point I will add that my 32inch 4K monitor is best pc thing i have bought I use 3D graphics software, Lumion etc and its just brilliant.
Enough of that though, I would get this version with 4GB graphics https://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs...nvidia-t600-1tb-m2-2tb-hdd-win10-pro-see-info

Oh, a 1TB m.2 is a pcie storage device about the size of your thumb which sits on the motherboard, way faster than hard disk drive so good to have.


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## StuAff (20 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> There are some aspects of photoshop accelerated using a graphics processor (by which I assume they mean a separate processor), and some that won't work without a GPU. While I don't use most of these at the moment, I'm still learning photoshop and wouldn't want to rule out being able to use them in the future for the sake of a few £100 (this computer will also be around 80% business use, so I can claim 80% of the VAT back, and offset 80% of the rest against tax, which helps reduce the 'ouch' factor on overall price!)
> 
> 
> Since you offer, kind sir...!
> ...


That Ryzen CPU I mentioned will do everything you need. Photoshop does not require a separate GPU for acceleration, if onboard/integrated graphics are up to the job. And the 5700G's most definitely are. It'll play modern games with 1080p resolution at high frame rates- Photoshop will not stress it. Buying a card like the T400 instead would be pointless. Trying to save you money here, not cut corners


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## Spinney (20 Sep 2021)

Thanks both. Thanks for your money-saving advice, Stu, but I can afford a few £100 extra for future-proofing. And Adobe list some bits of photoshop that won't work without a separate GPU, so I'd rather play it safe (don't want to have all the faff of choosing another new computer or upgrade in a year or two).
Grant - I'll get what you recommend. Thank you for your help!
(Now there'll just be the faff of transferring everything over, but that's a problem for a few weeks' time! )


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## Grant Fondo (20 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Thanks both. Thanks for your money-saving advice, Stu, but I can afford a few £100 extra for future-proofing. And Adobe list some bits of photoshop that won't work without a separate GPU, so I'd rather play it safe (don't want to have all the faff of choosing another new computer or upgrade in a year or two).
> Grant - I'll get what you recommend. Thank you for your help!
> (Now there'll just be the faff of transferring everything over, but that's a problem for a few weeks' time! )


Great stuff! You will be amazed how fast it seems compared to your old pc! Glad to assist


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## icowden (20 Sep 2021)

As @Grant Fondo said, that PC will last you for quite a while. You can also take up gaming if you get bored... !
WIndows 10 on an m2 is great. Startup will be super fast - no more making a cup of tea whilst you wait for the PC to get itself in gear.


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## Spinney (20 Sep 2021)

icowden said:


> As @Grant Fondo said, that PC will last you for quite a while. You can also take up gaming if you get bored... !
> WIndows 10 on an m2 is great. Startup will be super fast - no more making a cup of tea whilst you wait for the PC to get itself in gear.


Glad you approve.  *
I am looking forward to the speed of my brain or typing fingers being the limiting factor, not the electrons....


*Much better than people coming along after I've already ordered it, saying 'ah, but...!


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## Grant Fondo (20 Sep 2021)

Spinney said:


> Glad you approve.  *
> I am looking forward to the speed of my brain or typing fingers being the limiting factor, not the electrons....
> 
> 
> *Much better than people coming along after I've already ordered it, saying 'ah, but...!


Doing well on pc advice this month, just spec'd a mate a new high-end 3D workstation, he is over the moon with it ..... 2 grands worth mind you


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## icowden (20 Sep 2021)

Grant Fondo said:


> Doing well on pc advice this month, just spec'd a mate a new high-end 3D workstation, he is over the moon with it ..... 2 grands worth mind you



You'd hope he would be after spending 2 grand! I tend to rebuild when i run out of motherboard options... (or a bit at a time). That said, it is so easy to get carried away...


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2021)

Grant Fondo said:


> Doing well on pc advice this month, just spec'd a mate a new high-end 3D workstation, he is over the moon with it ..... 2 grands worth mind you





icowden said:


> You'd hope he would be after spending 2 grand! I tend to rebuild when i run out of motherboard options... (or a bit at a time). That said, it is so easy to get carried away...


That reminds me... 


ColinJ said:


> Pah - In 1992, I paid £2,000 for a PC whose spec was something like an 8 MHz 486 CPU, 1 MB RAM, 200 MB hard drive, a 14" monitor and Windows 3.1!


I think that I was only earning about £15k p.a. then so it was _*A LOT*_ of money to me!


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## DCBassman (20 Sep 2021)

Yup, can remember paying near a hundred quid for 1MB of RAM, 4x256KB SIMMs.
Edit: to go in a 386DX machine housed in an old IBM AT-286 case. Still have the case badge on the small box I use for TV.


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## keithmac (21 Sep 2021)

I'm waiting for Windows 11 to roll out before I replace any of ours st home snd the Diagnostics laptop at work.


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## Grant Fondo (21 Sep 2021)

keithmac said:


> I'm waiting for Windows 11 to roll out before I replace any of ours st home snd the Diagnostics laptop at work.


October 5th by all accounts, but I will be leaving it a month


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## keithmac (21 Sep 2021)

Grant Fondo said:


> October 5th by all accounts, but I will be leaving it a month



I can't see any merit in buying one now when you can get a factory fresh Windows 11 unit.

How long has Windows 10 got left support wise, 5 years?.

Microsoft said Windows 10 was the final version, didn't last long..


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## icowden (21 Sep 2021)

It seems that they plan to seamlessly upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 though rather than everyone having to start from scratch again.


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## Spinney (10 Nov 2021)

It has finally arrived! (To be fair, SCAN were completely open about the likely build time, and informed me when it slipped by a day).
Impressive quantities of bubblewrap of various kinds - all the pink stuff was _inside_ the computer!







A question - the top of the computer has a grid with holes, rather than just a solid sheet of metal, and there is a lift-off lid for it that is attached (when in place) by little magnetic feet. What's this for? Extra cooling if it's brain overheats? Looks more like a dust collector to me.


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## StuAff (10 Nov 2021)

Spinney said:


> A question - the top of the computer has a grid with holes, rather than just a solid sheet of metal, and there is a lift-off lid for it that is attached (when in place) by little magnetic feet. What's this for? Extra cooling if it's brain overheats? Looks more like a dust collector to me.



Yes, that's venting- like a lot of modern cases, there are fans (and/or a water cooler) along the top- warm air rises, remember?  I imagine the lift-off lid is for access to dust filters & for maintenance.


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## Spinney (10 Nov 2021)

StuAff said:


> Yes, that's venting- like a lot of modern cases, there are fans (and/or a water cooler) along the top- warm air rises, remember?  I imagine the lift-off lid is for access to dust filters & for maintenance.


No, the lift off lid only leaves it as the pic (i.e holes open instead of covered, but you can't get in that way). Both sides of the case come off easily with a couple of thumbscrews.
The fan is mounted by a similar grid of holes in the back of the box.


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## DCBassman (10 Nov 2021)

The top plate there probably came with a magnetic mesh filter. Here's the top of my Corsair case, with the mesh in place.






Behind that illuminated fan is a radiator for the cpu water cooler with two further fans attached. It's often a good idea to have a fan on top assisting the natural convection flow. The bottom, front, and back of the case will need regular dusting!


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