# Shane Sutton



## Smokin Joe (23 Apr 2016)

Jess Varnish isn't too happy about Shane Sutton's attitude towards female riders.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jess-varnish-makes-sexism-allegations-against-shane-sutton/

Having read the autobiographies of both Nicole Cooke and Vicky Pendleton recently there seems to be a bit of a pattern here.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Apr 2016)

There does


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## Fab Foodie (23 Apr 2016)

Marmion said:


> There does


Is it cable knit?


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Apr 2016)

Is ''Go and have a baby'' another way of saying ''Get f*cked and don't come back?''


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## fossyant (23 Apr 2016)

Hmm a few interesting facts there, Reade still on the squad with poorer results. 

Messy.


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## Rasmus (23 Apr 2016)

I'd say it's fairly likely that Varnish could have been dropped due to performance. Equally likely that Shane Sutton handled it by being a sexist prick, and now lying through his teeth about it.


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## Crackle (25 Apr 2016)

The whole debacle doesn't throw the track cycling program in a good light and it sounds like Sutton and a few others need to go.


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## Hont (25 Apr 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Having read the autobiographies of both Nicole Cooke and Vicky Pendleton recently there seems to be a bit of a pattern here.


Indeed. Performance management BC can do. (Wo)man management, less so it appears.


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## beastie (25 Apr 2016)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/25/nicole-cooke-cycling-sexism-jess-varnish-shane-sutton

It's poor show. As a father of two girls I have resigned myself to the fact they won't be rich from cycling. Tennis training on Saturday though.


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## deptfordmarmoset (26 Apr 2016)

Pendleton chips in...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...t--there-is-sexism-at-the-top-of-british-cyc/


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## 400bhp (26 Apr 2016)

beastie said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/25/nicole-cooke-cycling-sexism-jess-varnish-shane-sutton
> 
> It's poor show. As a father of two girls I have resigned myself to the fact they won't be rich from cycling. Tennis training on Saturday though.


 Is being rich from sport aspirational for you?


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Apr 2016)

The response to Nicole Cooke's article from British Cycling - now appended - is pathetic. Basically, it just makes things worse. Nicole Cooke may have been the most complete cyclist that Britain has ever produced (since Beryl Burton, of course) but the attitude of the sport's administrators at all levels, nationally and internationally, meant that she never got to compete as widely as she should have, let alone get real recognition for her acheivements. I've heard people in the British Cycling world comment on her sexual appetite, her supposed lack of femininity, her 'difficult' and 'uncooperative' character, all apparently designed to illustrate why her gradual exclusion from the inner circle was her own fault, whereas in fact all of these comments only demonstrate the structural and individual sexism and prejudice of the sport. But as she says in the article, "they don't even know it". That's the thing. The men (and women - because yes, many women absorb and reproduce the same sexist attitudes) who say these things don't even know that they are part of the problem. They really think they are 'explaining' rationally and all the time they are both illustrating and reinforcing the problem they don't even recognise. I really wish someone like Nicole Cooke was the President of the UCI...


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## Crackle (26 Apr 2016)

It's all pretty damning.


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## dellzeqq (26 Apr 2016)

Nicole Cooke's charge sheet is bad enough, but it's the tip of the iceberg. BC has receives about thirty million a year from the taxpayer to develop cycling - both competitive and non-competitive.

Now - Diversity 101 says that you start with your internal set-up and the way you represent your aims. And there BC draws a big fat fail. The gender balance within BC is poor - only six out of 35 Go-Ride coaches and three out of 21 regional event officers are women. Looking at BC club rides (and I see a lot of them) the gender balance is dreadful. And.....let us not forget that the near complete absence of non-whites at elite level, in the clubs and even on the BC website.

It is, basically, the same crusty organisation that it was twenty years ago, but flush with other people's money.

This isn't about Shane Sutton. It's about the two hundred million quid that has poured through BC and the people like Cookson (about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit), Andy Cook, Ellingworth and the rest who have spent it.

(And, before somebody points out the obvious, the CTC's not much better - just a lot smaller).


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The response to Nicole Cooke's article from British Cycling - now appended - is pathetic [...]


It is indeed. It's a bit of blather followed by two utterly irrelevant points.

They agree that no men finished in the 08 olympic race, exactly as NC said. But she's being a bit cruel to them because it was a hot day..
They point out that the organisation of the "The organisation of the test event for London 2012 was a matter for the UCI and LOCOG", which if you read the text is exactly what NC said.

It's a bit weird. The only points that they have challenged ... they haven't challenged at all. If that's the best they can do in their defence they have damned themselves somewhat. Or they have a complete idiot doing their PR.


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## beastie (26 Apr 2016)

400bhp said:


> Is being rich from sport aspirational for you?


Not really no. Do you understand "tongue in cheek"?


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## beastie (26 Apr 2016)

Pendleton weighs in

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...t--there-is-sexism-at-the-top-of-british-cyc/


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## 400bhp (26 Apr 2016)

beastie said:


> Not really no. Do you understand "tongue in cheek"?



Well, that's really obvious from a post with no emoticons.

Is the above tongue in cheek?


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## beastie (26 Apr 2016)

400bhp said:


> Well, that's really obvious from a post with no emoticons.
> 
> Is the above tongue in cheek?


Mebbyes aye, mebbyes no. I'm just a man of hidden depths........enigmatic if you wish.


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## Berk on a Bike (26 Apr 2016)

Statement from Jess Varnish https://www.velouk.net/2016/04/26/statement-from-jess-varnish/


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## Smokin Joe (26 Apr 2016)

Nicole Cooke complained that Sutton never came to watch any women's road races at all, everything was geared to the male riders. When you consider the high profile herself, Vicky P and Laura Trott contributed to the emergence of cycling as a major sport in the last decade the treatment the girls get is woeful. It's as if they are no more than just eye candy - and it's not just among the hierarchy in the sport that that attitude prevails, many of the comments posted on the internet about female riders (By cyclists) concentrate on how shaggable they are. Nicole Cooke had to suffer years of sneering comments about her looks, mainly I suspect from pot bellied male munters she wouldn't look twice at.


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## Tanis8472 (26 Apr 2016)

This is also a good read

http://singletrackworld.com/columns...-jenny-copnall-speaks-out-at-british-cycling/


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2016)

Tanis8472 said:


> This is also a good read
> 
> http://singletrackworld.com/columns...-jenny-copnall-speaks-out-at-british-cycling/


Change a few dates, and names of events and that could have come straight out of Nicole Cooke's autobiog.

They (BC) really are an absolute shower aren't they?


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## Berk on a Bike (26 Apr 2016)

On the BBC Sport website: British Cycling have announced an "independent review" following the allegations of sexism made by Jess Varnish.


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## 400bhp (26 Apr 2016)

Stuff like the best bikes for the blokes is a feckin joke. It seems fairly clear now why Armisted has moved out of BC's arms.


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## deptfordmarmoset (26 Apr 2016)

400bhp said:


> Stuff like the best bikes for the blokes is a feckin joke. It seems fairly clear now why Armisted has moved out of BC's arms.


And, it seems, has blossomed into a formidable rider.


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## bianchi1 (27 Apr 2016)

Shane suspended now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36147120


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## Milkfloat (27 Apr 2016)

Trial by media, exactly what is required before the Olympics.


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## dellzeqq (27 Apr 2016)

_ Not only did BC not want any women to race at their home World Championships, they were prepared to break UCI rules to prevent that from happening. They were prepared to fund all aspects of my trip to Scotland to race the relay, but not prepared to let me stay around to race. Why on earth would that be their stance? To this day I can only conclude that it was as simple as me being a self-produced rider, who spoke her mind and challenged their decisions. I had, on various occasions, been seen to “show up” their funded riders by beating them when riding for GB, and the British Championships each year had become my proving ground where, time and again, I fended off a funded rider to take the crown. I guess they didn’t want to be shown up anymore. This aspect is pertinent now with Jess Varnish who is out to prove them wrong. BC will do anything they can to prevent her being able to do this._
Jenny Copnall. Blimey!


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Trial by media, exactly what is required before the Olympics.


It may be an inconvenient time, but BC can hardly ignore these accusations any longer!

If it were just one or two disappointed riders who didn't make the team, then maybe sour grapes could be behind this, but to have a former World and Olympic road champion, track stars, paralympians and mountain bikers all saying the same thing ... 

Robert Millar did a short stint as a coach for BC after his retirement. He came along to a training camp I attended in Spain and told us about his experiences. The tales from his pro career were very interesting, but what he said about the way that BC was run was very illuminating! That was over 15 years ago but it sounds like a lot of the same things are still going on.


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## Milkfloat (27 Apr 2016)

I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team. Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team. Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.


However, while there allegations of a culture of fear reigning at BC, a lot of things will have gone unreported in fear of getting hit by a ''Boat Rockers Out'' procedure.


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.


That is exactly what JV is saying!

The trouble with an HTFU coach (as Sutton appears to be) is that they only get the best out of people who respond well to HTFU and who don't question orders.


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. *Ultimately Sutton Armstrong has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team sport*. * Maybe Jess LeMond and others raised concerns at BCUCI and they were ignored* so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.



I'm sure Pat McQuaid & co were saying exactly the same thing after the years of omertà and bullying people off teams and out of the sport finally cracked and the doping scandal publicly convulsed the topmost echelons of road racing.


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## saoirse50 (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Trial by media, exactly what is required before the Olympics.


Well, if BC had dealt with this properly long ago, then maybe this wouldn't be happening the way it is. If it is to be trial by media and it affects the Olympics, so be it. This is actually not really news. It's been going on for years. BC have swanned along, arrogantly thinking they could ignore it for far too long.


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## oldroadman (27 Apr 2016)

saoirse50 said:


> Well, if BC had dealt with this properly long ago, then maybe this wouldn't be happening the way it is. If it is to be trial by media and it affects the Olympics, so be it. This is actually not really news. It's been going on for years.* BC have swanned along, arrogantly thinking they could ignore it for far too long.*



This comment seems to sum up the thread. One question from an interested observer - how do any of the posters know this to be the case? Should people now simply zip it up and wait for the outcome of the independent investigation?
One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!
Off for a little potter in the cold but sunny day now.....


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## Dogtrousers (27 Apr 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> On the BBC Sport website: British Cycling have announced an "independent review" following the allegations of sexism made by Jess Varnish.


Terms of reference will be important.

Will it address wider cultural problems, or will it obsess endlessly about precisely what Sutton really said about JV's backside.


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## gavintc (27 Apr 2016)

bianchi1 said:


> Shane suspended now.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36147120


But only suspended when the allegations of his comments on disabled sportsMEN became public. BC thought they could ride this through - only a few women complaining. IMO, this is a deeper cancer than one man.


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Apr 2016)

User said:


> Have these accusations been raised previously? Have any of those who allege they were discriminated against used the systems in place within BC to raise their concerns?
> 
> I'm not defending any inappropriate behaviour on the part of BC staff - but in all the reports I've read there's been an absence of any account of having used the systems in place to address the concerns, so _it seems somewhat 'cart before the horse' to suggest that BC have been ignoring allegations that are only just being put._
> 
> What BC needs to ensure is that the allegations that have been put are investigated fairly and transparently - and an independent review of how these are handled sounds like a sensible start - and we have to remember that they have a duty of care not only to *their athletes but to their employees as well.*



point of order: The athletes are employees too, BC's defence of the JV situation that they're simply not renewing her employment contract.

This could appear to have stemmed from JV's prior very public comments about to poor preparation and 'how many times must I put my life on hold' speech/rant - which BC could not have failed to notice. No doubt it has been reiterated in private whether for ages beforehand or if that was the start we don't know, but if BC simply ignored such a public slating and did not seek clarification in private straight afterwards why she said what she did, then that in itself is grossly neglectful on their part and speaks rather loudly of their backroom priorities.

Nicole Cooke's book has been out for a while, even the sainted Cav has expressed his dislike of the Sutton approach in that fly on the wall film and his books, Sutton does't use the rectal sunshine blower apparently 

_To suggest this is all a bolt out of the blue that blindsided BC just the other day seems a tad wide of the mark._

Also if the systems in place are set up to favour one gang over the rest or simply aren't fit for purpose nor trusted to be by the still employed (and vested interest in keeping it that way athletes though) as reading between the lines seems to be the case, how can people hope to see them privately applied & used fairly and effectively with no life altering comeback on themselves? lets see what the independent enquiry has to say. Apropos of nothing: I wonder if theres any shredding and email housekeeping is going on in North Manchester right now.

Personally in my policy and procedure heavy piece of the public service that says all the right things, I see daily the frustrations and fears of reprisals of staff, if people put their head over the parapet and speak out against the things that aren't being done right or bulldozed through by the back door. People get ground down by it after a while and become acquiescent to being trampled over, especially if every now and again a troublesome one is left swinging on a gibbet or gets tossed overboard.
To avoid the inevitable thread drift into an SC&P type industrial relations tit-for-tat: Yes I am putting my money where my mouth is in my work context and its making me no friends with the upper echelons.


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## CaadX (27 Apr 2016)

BC have bullied cycling for years and got away with it, it should be BC in the dock on a whole set of different charges !


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Apr 2016)

I didn't spot this part of the BC quote (taken from the Telegraph)

“Following the announcement of an independent review into British Cycling’s performance programmes,” it said in a statement, “we are also announcing technical director Shane Sutton has been suspended pending an internal investigation into the allegations of discrimination that have been reported in the press. We are fully committed to the principles and active promotion of equality of opportunity .” ​So there are 2 things going on, an independent review of the overall programme and an _internal_ investigation into SS. It's possible, therefore, that the programme could get criticised with reforms recommended, etc, while SS gets cleared and reinstated (lack of evidence, etc.)


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> _ Not only did BC not want any women to race at their home World Championships, they were prepared to break UCI rules to prevent that from happening. They were prepared to fund all aspects of my trip to Scotland to race the relay, but not prepared to let me stay around to race. Why on earth would that be their stance? *To this day I can only conclude that it was as simple as me being a self-produced rider, who spoke her mind and challenged their decisions. I had, on various occasions, been seen to “show up” their funded riders by beating them when riding for GB, and the British Championships each year had become my proving ground where, time and again, I fended off a funded rider to take the crown. I guess they didn’t want to be shown up anymore.* This aspect is pertinent now with Jess Varnish who is out to prove them wrong. BC will do anything they can to prevent her being able to do this._
> Jenny Copnall. Blimey!



That's mirrors what Nicole Cooke claimed in her autobiography. They had a very good interview with a female triathlete (Name escapes me as I don't follow triathlon) on R4 this morning who said that as a very young sport without any historical baggage female competitors compete in exactly the same conditions as the men - same race distances, same prize money. It seems ludicrous, for example, that the women's pursuit is over a distance of 3000m compared to 4000 for the men. Surely they don't think women are not capable of riding an extra kilometre?


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## fimm (27 Apr 2016)

Was the female triathlete Chrissie Wellington? (She's been involved in the campaigning over improving women's pro cycling.)


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Apr 2016)

@Smokin Joe Tennis gets away with the same type of discrimination in some tournaments, e.g. Wimbledon, Women play less sets and historically have received less money for competing.

They certainly seem to be further along the road in terms of pay equality, if not putting on the same length of games.

The ladies BDO world darts championship is a poor relation sprint compared to the mens marathon too.


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## fossyant (27 Apr 2016)

There has been a tweet from a paralympic champion about not 'messing' with the 'wobbly mafia'.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2016)

fimm said:


> Was the female triathlete Chrissie Wellington? (She's been involved in the campaigning over improving women's pro cycling.)


I don't think it was, that is one triathlete whose name I would recognise.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Apr 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> ..... mainly I suspect from pot bellied male munters she wouldn't look twice at.


Oi! Stop objectifying me ....


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## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

I've been pretty suspicious of SS since the Wendy Houvenaghel 'debacle' in the Olympic team pursuit. Anyone who could string an obviously capable athlete along like that for 2 years and then shaft her right at the end in favour of the 3 younger team who were attracting all the press attention, not for performance reasons, but just because he could, well, let's just say I think he's pretty nasty. I know lots of people think WH was just full of sour grapes at the time, but the more I hear about Sutton, the more I think she said or did something and he thought he would teach her a lesson.

The statement from British Cycling following on from Nicole Cooke's piece makes me want to rip up my membership card.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> There has been a tweet from a paralympic champion about not 'messing' with the 'wobbly mafia'.


Does the "wobbly mafia" have a fall guy?


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## Crackle (27 Apr 2016)

Sutton's move sideways at the end of the Leinders debacle always made me think there was a suspicion hanging over Sutton anyhow. he survived that to move onto the track team but he perhaps should have gone at that point. Now a lot of things which have been said by riders in the past are taking on a slightly different light with these allegations. Potentially this could reflect quite badly on Cookson and Brailsford too, particularly Cookson and could even weaken his position in the battle for world tour supremacy with ASO. I wait to see how much legs this has.


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## fatblokish (27 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!



According to last year's P&L account, income for 2015 was £26,092,596. It's on the BC website, if you wish to check this assertion.
Fingers off keyboard


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## ColinJ (27 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!


Ok then, in the interests of credibility, I _also_ did a bit of research and digging and found this document! 







I'm not sure if that is _all_ of their funding, but it certainly means that _your_ figures are way too _low_.


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## CaadX (27 Apr 2016)

BC , UCI, FIFA, IAAF and so on there is no difference give someone power and they will abuse it.


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## fatblokish (27 Apr 2016)

BC's income from the P&L accounts hasn't fallen below £20 million pa in any of the last five accounting periods.


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## andrew_s (27 Apr 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> They had a very good interview with a female triathlete (Name escapes me as I don't follow triathlon) on R4 this morning who said...


 It would have been one of Non Stanford, Helen Jenkins, Vicky Holland or Jodie Stimpson. I'd guess that it would have been Non Stanford as she's had a number of interviews published on the BBC website over the last few days.
British women's triathlon have a bit of an embarrassment of riches at the moment - the first 3 are all good medal prospects for Rio, and Stimpson would be if the others hadn't got the 3 available places.


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## Tanis8472 (27 Apr 2016)

TheJDog said:


> I've been pretty suspicious of SS since the Wendy Houvenaghel 'debacle' in the Olympic team pursuit. Anyone who could string an obviously capable athlete along like that for 2 years and then shaft her right at the end in favour of the 3 younger team who were attracting all the press attention, not for performance reasons, but just because he could, well, let's just say I think he's pretty nasty. I know lots of people think WH was just full of sour grapes at the time, but the more I hear about Sutton, the more I think she said or did something and he thought he would teach her a lesson.
> 
> The statement from British Cycling following on from Nicole Cooke's piece makes me want to rip up my membership card.



Do you mean this?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/19147279


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2016)

andrew_s said:


> It would have been one of Non Stanford, Helen Jenkins, Vicky Holland or Jodie Stimpson. I'd guess that it would have been Non Stanford as she's had a number of interviews published on the BBC website over the last few days.
> British women's triathlon have a bit of an embarrassment of riches at the moment - the first 3 are all good medal prospects for Rio, and Stimpson would be if the others hadn't got the 3 available places.


Helen Jenkins, I seem to remember.


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## The Bear (27 Apr 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The response to Nicole Cooke's article from British Cycling - now appended - is pathetic. Basically, it just makes things worse. Nicole Cooke may have been the most complete cyclist that Britain has ever produced (since Beryl Burton, of course) but the attitude of the sport's administrators at all levels, nationally and internationally, meant that she never got to compete as widely as she should have, let alone get real recognition for her acheivements. I've heard people in the British Cycling world comment on her sexual appetite, her supposed lack of femininity, her 'difficult' and 'uncooperative' character, all apparently designed to illustrate why her gradual exclusion from the inner circle was her own fault, whereas in fact all of these comments only demonstrate the structural and individual sexism and prejudice of the sport. But as she says in the article, "they don't even know it". That's the thing. The men (and women - because yes, many women absorb and reproduce the same sexist attitudes) who say these things don't even know that they are part of the problem. They really think they are 'explaining' rationally and all the time they are both illustrating and reinforcing the problem they don't even recognise. I really wish someone like Nicole Cooke was the President of the UCI...



Bear says chapeau to Monkey!


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## Flying_Monkey (27 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> This comment seems to sum up the thread.



With respect, it does not in any way. How many women's voices do you need to hear before you think that this might be something that is a problem perpetrated and perpetuated by British Cycling and not by the women concerned? Sure, when it was just Nicole Cooke, it was easy to blame her. Because everyone know she was bolshy, right? But not we have Jessica Varnish and the XC team, and even Queen Victoria. You may be able to say that posters here lack your inside knowledge, but most of what is going on here is reporting the voices of those women, and they do know and have experienced what they are talking about and in ways that even you, as a man, could not possibly have done. 

It is quite clear that not just BC but cycling authorities at all levels are still not taking women's sport seriously enough and are structurally, and in far too many cases also individually, sexist, and that they have allowed (and still are allowing) this situation to continue as long as they can get away with it. It would be nice to see men like you, with a long involvement in the sport, at least acknowledge that this is true before you pick easier targets to shoot down.


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## mjr (27 Apr 2016)

gavintc said:


> But only suspended when the allegations of his comments on disabled sportsMEN became public. BC thought they could ride this through - only a few women complaining. IMO, this is a deeper cancer than one man.


All too believable. BC's approach to disabled cyclists seems to be to obstruct their inclusion at any level with such measures as spreading the competition ban on recumbents to sportives and also banning e-bikes from them. Hand cyclists are tolerated but must fly "a vertical, visible flag placed at the back of the hand cycle" - maybe a black triangle would be to their liking? Organisers have to comply with these requirements by BC threatening to refuse to list or insure the sportive. Basically, unless you're a full-on para-cyclist, https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/disability/ seems to have nothing for you.

At club level, women were often shunted into "Breeze" groups (I've not checked if they still exist - I've not heard of them for a while) and other minorities like disabled riders seem simply ignored.

So while it's probably right that Shane Sutton be held to account if he discriminated, I agree it's deeper than one man: there's an institutional problem that should be tackled too. No more letting BC wriggle out of it by setting up new initiatives while almost nothing changes in the existing structures. Reforming even the sporting side would be a big task, so it seems like time for non-sport cycling to be moved to a better home (maybe a new one) and BC's claws be unhooked from the councils like Manchester where they've sunk them in.


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## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

Tanis8472 said:


> Do you mean this?
> http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/19147279



yes, that


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## Hacienda71 (27 Apr 2016)

Sky have just tweeted that Sutton has resigned.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2016)

Hacienda71 said:


> Sky have just tweeted that Sutton has resigned.


No option, I would think. BC are not the cosy little club they once were, able to do their own thing with impunity. Were they seen to be discriminatory the lottery funding they are dependent on would stop and the gravy train would cease overnight.


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## Berk on a Bike (27 Apr 2016)

Hacienda71 said:


> Sky have just tweeted that Sutton has resigned.


And here is his statement https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/a...bout-bc-news-Statement-from-British-Cycling-0


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## Dayvo (27 Apr 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> And here is his statement https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/a...bout-bc-news-Statement-from-British-Cycling-0



I_ have made clear that I reject the specific claims that have been made against me in recent days. _

Yeah, right. He protests too much.


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## dellzeqq (27 Apr 2016)

Thrown under the wheels so that BC can continue in the self-same way.


----------



## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> Thrown under the wheels so that BC can continue in the self-same way.



I suppose it's possible that he was the only one.

Has he said that the 'gimps and wobblies' thing is a lie?


----------



## dellzeqq (27 Apr 2016)

TheJDog said:


> I suppose it's possible that he was the only one.
> 
> Has he said that the 'gimps and wobblies' thing is a lie?


Pretty much. Then again, Shane Sutton didn't construct the all-white (as of yesterday) website or hire all those regional events officers.

The bigger horror is that it may say something about us (in the widest possible sense). Podium girls? The all-white cast in 'Cycling' magazine? Those revolting Wiggle ads?


----------



## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> Pretty much. Then again, Shane Sutton didn't construct the all-white (as of yesterday) website or hire all those regional events officers.



It's an incredibly white sport. The only black cyclists I;ve heard of are Daniel Teklehaimanot (sp?) and Traffic Droid.


----------



## dellzeqq (27 Apr 2016)

TheJDog said:


> It's an incredibly white sport. The only black cyclists I;ve heard of are Daniel Teklehaimanot (sp?) and Traffic Droid.


well, one cannot argue with that when it comes to elite cyclists, although you've missed the incomparable Bauge.





But, while there are many tens of thousands of black cyclists in London alone, and, doubtless, great numbers in every city in the Great Britain, the organisations and periodicals that (please excuse the clumsiest of phrases) sell our dreams back to us simply don't represent this fact.


----------



## Milkfloat (27 Apr 2016)

I wonder which team will take him on next. I suspect he won't be out of a job for long - rightly or wrongly.


----------



## Hacienda71 (27 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I wonder which team will take him on next. I suspect he won't be out of a job for long - rightly or wrongly.


Doubt it is going to be Wiggle Honda


----------



## ColinJ (27 Apr 2016)

Astana!


----------



## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> well, one cannot argue with that when it comes to elite cyclists, although you've missed the incomparable Baugé.



I've heard of him, too!


----------



## fossyant (27 Apr 2016)

Team Wiggins - not a chance !!


----------



## Racing roadkill (27 Apr 2016)

I'm an employee of B.C. If I said what's alleged to have been said, I'd be bang in trouble. If he did call the Para athletes "Wobblies and Gimps", then he should get his marching orders. Likewise, if he's made the type of sexist comments alleged, he should walk the proverbial plank. No excuses, but the allegations have to be proven first.


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## TheJDog (27 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> Team Wiggins - not a chance !!



Wiggo loves Sutton.


----------



## Dave Davenport (27 Apr 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> I'm an employee of B.C. If I said what's alleged to have been said, I'd be bang in trouble. If he did call the Para athletes "Wobblies and Gimps", then he should get his marching orders. Likewise, if he's made the type of sexist comments alleged, he should walk the proverbial plank. No excuses, but the allegations have to be proven first.


He has 'walked the plank'.
By the way, what's your role at BC?


----------



## ryan_w (27 Apr 2016)

More importantly, can we all pay some attention to his daughter Elle?....


----------



## mjr (27 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> Pretty much. Then again, Shane Sutton didn't construct the all-white (as of yesterday) website or hire all those regional events officers.


The website wasn't _completely_ all-white when I looked. It had a few pics of Sadiq Kahn in the news items.


----------



## oldroadman (27 Apr 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> No option, I would think. BC are not the cosy little club they once were, able to do their own thing with impunity. Were they seen to be discriminatory the lottery funding they are dependent on would stop and the gravy train would cease overnight.


A very sensible comment. An earlier poster commented that "they did not have my inside knowledge" - all I have learned is from chatting to old colleagues in the sport, but no-one in what anyone would call "power". The strength of the old grape vine, eh?


----------



## Milzy (27 Apr 2016)

He's a complete nobber.


----------



## Dogtrousers (27 Apr 2016)

Milzy said:


> He's a complete nobber.


Shame on you for using such derogatory language


----------



## CaadX (28 Apr 2016)

Oh no ! Don't tell me that bike I bought round the back of the Bikeshed off dodgy Dave and that kit on Ebay was Knocked off !


----------



## Beebo (28 Apr 2016)

Funny isnt it that the Fergie hair drier treatment is held up as good management.
i imagine Shane was probably hired because of his no nonsense approach. I bet Eddie Jones is sometimes a bit rude to the England rugby team, this is just what happens in pro sport.


----------



## Racing roadkill (28 Apr 2016)

Beebo said:


> Funny isnt it that the Fergie hair drier treatment is held up as good management.
> i imagine Shane was probably hired because of his no nonsense approach. I bet Eddie Jones is sometimes a bit rude to the England rugby team, this is just what happens in pro sport.



There's a difference between dishing out a rollicking, because the athletes in your charge, aren't doing their job to the best of their ability, and being an obnoxious, sexist, discriminatory arse, though.


----------



## CaadX (28 Apr 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> There's a difference between dishing out a rollicking, because the athletes in your charge, aren't doing their job to the best of their ability, and being an obnoxious, sexist, discriminatory arse, though.


I thought we were talking about Shane not Marmion .


----------



## Berk on a Bike (28 Apr 2016)

BMX rider Tre Whyte is the latest to voice his opinions on the culture of fear at British Cycling. Again he could be seen as having an axe to grind, but it seems there are many who prefer to remain anonymous who agree with him.
Also this morning a story on the BBC says BC is to investigate allegations of kit being sold online for profit. Whatever next?


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> Oh no ! Don't tell me that bike I bought round the back of the Bikeshed off dodgy Dave and that kit on Ebay was Knocked off !


Yeah, but at least you've now got a better bike than Lizzie Armitstead's BC issued BSO.


----------



## CaadX (28 Apr 2016)

So while Sutton did the Dirty work Brailsford and Cookson prospered , well I never [shock,horror] ! Sky will have to pull the plug. This gets better and better its made my year.


----------



## CaadX (28 Apr 2016)

They thought they could turn cycling into the next soccer, only they forgot one thing cyclists aren't 2 faced, shallow, money grabbing bar stewards.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

Two telling quotes are (IMO):
Chris Boardman: Sutton was “an excellent No 2” but perhaps not the right man to be “the big boss”.
Rob Hayles "He worked extremely well alongside Sir Dave Brailsford. They were good cop, bad cop, but unfortunately bad cop, bad cop does not work at all."

Sutton sounds like he was promoted one level beyond his abilities into a role that did not suit him, by an organisation aware of and not interested in addressing his behavioural problems. Someone a bit smarter at the helm would have realised that to maintain the status quo Brailsford needed to be replaced with a like for like PR friendly, person-management skilled individual, capable of making big decisions, leaving Sutton bullying people and making small decisions in his tracksuit in the background.


----------



## MiK1138 (28 Apr 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36157878 Not a great day for British Cycling


----------



## screenman (28 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> So while Sutton did the Dirty work Brailsford and Cookson prospered , well I never [shock,horror] ! Sky will have to pull the plug. This gets better and better its made my year.



Why do you want Sky to pull the plug?


----------



## fossyant (28 Apr 2016)

Their track bikes and road bikes that aren't 'branded' have to be available for sale as part of UCI rules. The fact is they are mega expensive though.


----------



## Scoosh (28 Apr 2016)

MiK1138 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36157878 Not a great day for British Cycling


Already done ... TMN to @CaadX !


----------



## DogTired (28 Apr 2016)

This is also an indirect consequence of the emphasis UK Sport put on Olympic medals as a measure of 'success'. Over time you end up with a machine whose only goal is to fulfil that metric. Hence the British Cycling 'medal factory' with little regard to how this was achieved and the cost to individuals.

The funding for British Swimming was cut ruthlessly as a result of a poor medal showing in London. People turn a blind eye when success seems all around and the place is awash with cash.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (28 Apr 2016)

I think the elite boys' club at BC is circling the wagons. Peter Kennaugh posted tweets this morning critical of Emma Pooley's comments re sexism, tweets which he later deleted. Luke Rowe has tweeted comments in support of Shane Sutton. It's all becoming a little bit internecine.


----------



## Crackle (28 Apr 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> I think the elite boys' club at BC is circling the wagons. Peter Kennaugh posted tweets this morning critical of Emma Pooley's comments re sexism, tweets which he later deleted. Luke Rowe has tweeted comments in support of Shane Sutton. It's all becoming a little bit internecine.


Peter Kennaugh doesn't seem too bright and his tweets have been preserved for posterity. Quite nasty little tweets they are too. Future BC chairman then!


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> I think the elite boys' club at BC is circling the wagons. Peter Kennaugh posted tweets this morning critical of Emma Pooley's comments re sexism, tweets which he later deleted. Luke Rowe has tweeted comments in support of Shane Sutton. It's all becoming a little bit internecine.


http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...deletes-tweets-criticising-emma-pooley-222929


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## Berk on a Bike (28 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...deletes-tweets-criticising-emma-pooley-222929


Now he's deleted his twitter account. 

EDIT: It seems the deletion was temporary. Someone at Team Sky obviously "had a chat" and he's back with an apology.


----------



## Smokin Joe (28 Apr 2016)

I feel sorry for the track riders because outside of the BC Performance Plan they have nothing. Nicole Cooke was able to go off to the continent and ride for a pro road team, but there is no career as a female track rider unless you are on the national squad, there simply isn't a programme of events.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (28 Apr 2016)

Just so we are clear what Kennaugh said - this is from Cyclingnews.com -

'In an interview with _Guardian Sport_ earlier this week, Pooley asked why British Cycling and Team Sky didn’t sponsor a women’s team. “Why wasn’t there a similar plan for the women? The women’s Giro d’Italia was the most important race for women but where was the funding for that? I came second twice and no one from British Cycling offered to put together a team to help me win it.”

Kennaugh, 26, replied to her questions on Twitter saying,“Emma pooley why would sky put money into the women’s giro that absolutely no one in the uk has absolutely no idea about”, followed one minute later by “Stop being so self centered and get over it.”'

Emma Pooley is one of the most successful British cyclists of recent years, despite her lack of support, and also one of the most intelligent and articulate. Kennaugh is a talented and hard-working rider, but it's bizarre that someone so many years Pooley's junior without anything like her record of success, would feel that he had the right to patronise and insult her in this way. It says a great deal about the sexist culture in cycling.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (28 Apr 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> Pretty much. Then again, Shane Sutton didn't construct the all-white (as of yesterday) website or hire all those regional events officers.
> 
> The bigger horror is that it may say something about us (in the widest possible sense). Podium girls? The all-white cast in 'Cycling' magazine? Those revolting Wiggle ads?





TheJDog said:


> It's an incredibly white sport. The only black cyclists I;ve heard of are Daniel Teklehaimanot (sp?) and Traffic Droid.



Gregory Bauge? (Edit, late to that party  )

It would appear that the colour make up of BC's emerging talent isn't going to change things anytime soon either. I work next to the Velodrome and daily see the BC kitted male and female riders coming in, going out on rides, wandering around the adjacent ASDA, in the public areas of the Velodrome & it's (expensive) cafe. In all the years the Velodrome has been BC's home and training base, I cannot ever remember seeing a non white rider/person in liveried kit.

Doesn't mean to say there aren't any non white riders or other members of staff, but if they are there, they are they don't seem to get out and about much.


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## hatler (28 Apr 2016)

Don't forget Shanaze Reade.


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## DogTired (28 Apr 2016)

User said:


> *Ahem*
> 
> If you look at the top of the bit you've circled in red you'll see that it says '13-17 funding' The document is also entitled 'BRITISH CYCLING - 2013-17 SUMMARY DOCUMENT'.
> 
> The £32 million listed is the funding for the *four* years - not per annum.



British Cycling's summarised accounts are here: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/search/article/bcst-British-Cycling-Publications

Whilst the Sport England contribution of £32 million is over 4 years, BC income for 2015 was £26,092,596 and £25,633,848 for 2014.


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## DogTired (28 Apr 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Just so we are clear what Kennaugh said - this is from Cyclingnews.com -
> 
> 'In an interview with _Guardian Sport_ earlier this week, Pooley asked why British Cycling and Team Sky didn’t sponsor a women’s team. “Why wasn’t there a similar plan for the women? The women’s Giro d’Italia was the most important race for women but where was the funding for that? I came second twice and no one from British Cycling offered to put together a team to help me win it.”
> 
> ...



Its an intelligent thing to do to separate what is sexism and what is economics. Its a fair point to make regarding Sky; why would a commercial organisation put money into something that has little public following and so can't get a return on its investment. 

There are lots and lots of hard-working and talented people, of both genders, doing lots of admirable things in the world. But if you want investment in what you're doing then you have to make a case as to why you should get that investment.


----------



## Roadrider48 (28 Apr 2016)

TheJDog said:


> It's an incredibly white sport. The only black cyclists I;ve heard of are Daniel Teklehaimanot (sp?) and Traffic Droid.


Can you call Traffic droid a cyclist?


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Can you call Traffic droid a cyclist?



No you cant.


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## pawl (28 Apr 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I believe it to be a mix of sour grapes and truth. The number of headstrong and driven people in the same system is bound to cause conflict. The world of professional sport is an incredibly hard one, hero to zero in the blink of an eye. Ultimately Sutton has been a key part of a very successful system, is that because of his alleged behaviour or in spite of it and if it was because of it, does that make it acceptable? I would prefer to see this handled outside of the media spotlight as I think it can only cause damage to the team. Maybe Jess and others raised concerns at BC and they were ignored so they felt they had to go to the media, if so double shame on BC.




An interview with Rob Hales on bbc radio "Shane is a great coach but does not in his opinion a manager of people".

The way that Victoria Pendelton relationship with her coach was indicative of the attitude prevalent at BC.

Relationships in what is fairly tight community are in some instances inevitable. There are many good coaches within BC but are not very adept at personal management.
If I remember correctly Steve Peters was the the man who dealt with the psychological well being of the team.Perhaps the time to bring back into the fold.I understand that he is involved with a football club.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ColinJ (28 Apr 2016)

User said:


> *Ahem*
> 
> If you look at the top of the bit you've circled in red you'll see that it says '13-17 funding' The document is also entitled 'BRITISH CYCLING - 2013-17 SUMMARY DOCUMENT'.
> 
> The £32 million listed is the funding for the *four* years - not per annum.


I'm sorry, Reg, it is with great regret that I have to ask you to go back and check my post and you will see that I was referring to oldroadman's claim that BC received ~60% of £30 million (about £18 million) in *four* years - not per annum. I was pointing out that they will receive _at least £32 million in that time. _My point was that if he is going to tell us to check our facts before posting, then he should be a bit more careful about checking _his_ facts before posting! 



oldroadman said:


> This comment seems to sum up the thread. One question from an interested observer - how do any of the posters know this to be the case? Should people now simply zip it up and wait for the outcome of the independent investigation?
> One more point - do BC REALLY get £30 million a year? I did a bit of research and digging, it appears that they had received about 60% of that in FOUR YEARS (An Olympic period). Let's please check assertions before involving fingers on keyboards. Makes discussion so more interesting and credible!
> Off for a little potter in the cold but sunny day now.....


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## Smokin Joe (28 Apr 2016)

It's getting worse. Quite a damning report about Sutton and BC's failure to act on serious concerns going back to 2007 -

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...g-ignored-claims-shane-sutton-years-say-staff


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## Beebo (28 Apr 2016)

The Daily Mail are now reporting a failed GB drug test.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...rugs-test-British-Cycling-plunged-crisis.html


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> I thought we were talking about Shane not Marmion .


Shut it you old git


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## andrew_s (29 Apr 2016)

Beebo said:


> The Daily Mail are now reporting a failed GB drug test.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...rugs-test-British-Cycling-plunged-crisis.html


It's Simon Yates.
The OGE doctor forgot to apply for a TUE (apparently).
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simon-yates-returns-positive-doping-test/


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## HF2300 (29 Apr 2016)

TheJDog said:


> It's an incredibly white sport. The only black cyclists I;ve heard of are Daniel Teklehaimanot (sp?) and Traffic Droid.



I spent ages trying to work out which pro cyclist was nicknamed Traffic Droid, then realised you meant Traffic Droid.


----------



## Hont (29 Apr 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I spent ages trying to work out which pro cyclist was nicknamed Traffic Droid, then realised you meant Traffic Droid.


----------



## HF2300 (29 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> ... leaving Sutton bullying people and making small decisions in his tracksuit in the background.



Well, no. Bullying is never, acceptable whatever the situation. Tough decisions have to made, yes. Sometimes people might have to be told what's what, yes. That should never, ever justify bullying in any form.


----------



## Dogtrousers (29 Apr 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Well, no. Bullying is never, acceptable whatever the situation. Tough decisions have to made, yes. Sometimes people might have to be told what's what, yes. That should never, ever justify bullying in any form.


Yes, that's true. I didn't mean to imply that it was.

But if BC wanted to maintain their their good PR, and avoid media poo-storms, then they were a bit stupid in promoting SS. And culpable in (seemingly) turning a blind eye to his bullying.


----------



## HF2300 (29 Apr 2016)

DogTired said:


> Flying_Monkey said:
> 
> 
> > Just so we are clear what Kennaugh said - this is from Cyclingnews.com -
> ...



You'd perhaps like to think that in that situation you would have seen the opportunity to generate big headlines for a (still relatively obscure) sport and advance the cause of women's cycling (and cycling in general) and bring it up to the profile of men's cycling. The time was right, after all.


----------



## John the Monkey (29 Apr 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You'd perhaps like to think that in that situation you would have seen the opportunity to generate big headlines for a (still relatively obscure) sport and advance the cause of women's cycling (and cycling in general) and bring it up to the profile of men's cycling. The time was right, after all.


Here's Chasing Wheels' take;

Four Reasons Why Sky Should Have Invested in a Womens' Team
http://www.chasingwheels.com/britis...should-have-invested-in-a-british-womens-team


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## DogTired (29 Apr 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Here's Chasing Wheels' take;
> 
> Four Reasons Why Sky Should Have Invested in a Womens' Team
> http://www.chasingwheels.com/britis...should-have-invested-in-a-british-womens-team



Going back to an earlier point I made: "Its an intelligent thing to do to separate what is sexism and what is economics.". 

The chasingwheels arguments are bull. Absolute dross. "Women control the purchasing decisions" So what? Are we trying to get more public involvement in cycling (a key plank of the Sky/BC/Brailsford effort) or to buy more stuff? If its to buy more stuff then why put money into a minority event? Personally I'd like more money invested in promoting utility cycling and supporting how women would like to cycle as a mass activity. 

Throwing money at a womens giro team and even winning it - thats a fantastic achievement and no-one disputes the effort and commitment (except maybe the mens giro riders, what with it being a third of the length of their race, but thats another point) but who gives enough of a stuff to pay for it?

Not as many people are bothered about watching Championship League footie compared to the Premiership. Some like F1, some like Superbikes. Not as many people are as bothered about watching womens tour cycling compared to mens. There's less interest in womens cycling. There's less interest in club cycling. There's less interest in junior cycling.

People pay to watch the absolute pinnacle. It doesn't diminish their admiration for the achievements of competitive womens cyclists or juniors.

Do you think for one minute if ASO could make a single euro out of a womens TdF (and they have been bloody brilliant at promoting the mens TdF) they'd go 'Mais non, its women'?


----------



## lyn1 (29 Apr 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Here's Chasing Wheels' take;
> 
> Four Reasons Why Sky Should Have Invested in a Womens' Team
> http://www.chasingwheels.com/britis...should-have-invested-in-a-british-womens-team



Reasonable points but based on a flawed assumption which weakens or invalidates the argument. Perhaps understandably when written by a cyclist it assumes that the decision is whether to fund a ladies cycle team or not and that the only ladies sport in need of funding and development is cycling. That is not the issue or decision faced by most large companies who receive several thousand unsolicited sponsorship requests each year. Additionally, they proactively investigate many sponsorship opportunities that clearly support their marketing objectives. There are hundreds of different sponsorship platforms available, so the decision about what to sponsor is far more wide reaching than a ladies cycle team or not. The fact that "it would not cost much" is not the issue, as many other opportunities would be similarly priced and may be more cost effective.
If Sky came out tomorrow and said they were dividing a million pounds into ladies sport teams or leisure activity, but cycling was not one of those, I am convinced that in some quarters they would still be accused of sexism, because they fund a men's team but not one for the ladies. I would like to see a Sky ladies team, but 25 years in this market suggests to me that presenting a sensible economic/financial justification rather than demanding something based on equality is likely to be more persuasive in a commercial world where the prospective funding sources are "for profit" businesses.


----------



## Dogtrousers (29 Apr 2016)

The thing about Sky sponsorship is a bit of a sideshow, in that the spotlight is (or should be) on BC and the use of lottery money, not so much on Sky and the use of their own commercial dosh.

Should Sky fund a womens team? Well, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. It's possible that more sponsor input could cause public interest in womens events to rise. After all, over recent years womens cycling in the UK has thrown up names like Cooke, Pooley, Pendleton, Armitstead who have a degree of fame outside the world of cycling - mainly due to Olympic exposure. So Sky could get a world or Olympic champion with publicly known name on the cheap. (Unlike in mens cycling where they have to pay for blokes that no-one outside cycling has heard of, like ... er ... Kennaugh  ) 

I really don't know enough about the economics of it ...


----------



## Hont (29 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> blokes that no-one outside cycling has heard of, _or can correctly pronounce the name of_, like ... er ... Kennaugh  )


FTFY :-)


----------



## Dogtrousers (29 Apr 2016)

This is worth a read "An incomplete list of British Cycling’s issues with women riders" on "Unofficial Unsanctioned Women's UCI Cycling Blog"

https://prowomenscycling.com/2016/04/28/british-cycling-women/


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## DogTired (29 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> The thing about Sky sponsorship is a bit of a sideshow, in that the spotlight is (or should be) on BC and the use of lottery money, not so much on Sky and the use of their own commercial dosh.



Pooley raised the issue about Sky/BC/Sutton and Mr K commented, hence the discussion. Its hard to fathom where Sky/BC end and start. No-one cared when it was all working but an issue now its gone wrong. Strange that BC have said they were unaware of Suttons retainer from Sky which would undoubtedly be viewed as a potential conflict of interest.

_"Why didn't anyone ask how it could be that a publicly funded body like British Cycling joined together with a privately funded team – Sky – on a mission to get a British winner of the Tour de France within five years? Why wasn't there a similar plan for the women?" Pooley asked._


----------



## resal (29 Apr 2016)

This post made me quite unpopular.



resal said:


> This is a Wegelius thread so I apologise for the diversion but just in case any of you were thinking this pack of sh** were the real McCoy for you to worship each Sunday, think about this http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...x-jibe-only-moments-after-victim-leaves-stage.
> 
> A dinner for victims of childhood sexual abuse. You just can't make it up. Think he would care any more than Lance about conning the lot of us ?
> 
> You are looking for a "firebreak". The first sign is that it looks nothing like the rest of the clan. Oh - and the clan hate that individual.



Brad's recorded view on Sutton "From the moment we became mates this guy would do anything for me, literally anything. Then again, if you get on the wrong side of him, you've got an enemy for life." 

I am joining the dots. Yes - I think Brad is pretty well a soul-mate of Sutton.

Sutton's appalling and outrageous behaviour is nothing new. People knew about it and over-looked it. If you were "his enemy" you certainly couldn't get anyone to take any of your complaints seriously as the BMX rider and various others have recorded. 

What do those who criticised me for the above post think now ?


----------



## bladesman73 (8 May 2016)

TheJDog said:


> I've heard of him, too!


kevin reza, nacer bouhanni, germaine burton, there are also a few eritreans apart from tekkers. dont rwanda have a team now? i also see more black people cycling whilst out and about nowadays than say ten years ago.


----------



## CaadX (11 May 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> The thing about Sky sponsorship is a bit of a sideshow, in that the spotlight is (or should be) on BC and the use of lottery money, not so much on Sky and the use of their own commercial dosh.
> 
> Should Sky fund a womens team? Well, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. It's possible that more sponsor input could cause public interest in womens events to rise. After all, over recent years womens cycling in the UK has thrown up names like Cooke, Pooley, Pendleton, Armitstead who have a degree of fame outside the world of cycling - mainly due to Olympic exposure. So Sky could get a world or Olympic champion with publicly known name on the cheap. (Unlike in mens cycling where they have to pay for blokes that no-one outside cycling has heard of, like ... er ... Kennaugh  )
> 
> I really don't know enough about the economics of it ...


The economics are.....der der der der wait for it.... it doesn't matter who's money it is ! It corrupts and everybody gets jealous and they do not get their fair share and so on and you are sponsoring it !


----------



## HF2300 (12 May 2016)

Richard Williams article in the Guardian at the weekend:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ant-major-commanding-officer-cycling-rio-2016


----------



## dellzeqq (17 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Richard Williams article in the Guardian at the weekend:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ant-major-commanding-officer-cycling-rio-2016


very poor. Williams personalises what is clearly an institutional problem.


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2016)

It gets worse for BC after the leak of this email, quite clearly carrying a threat

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/british-cycling-threatens-riders-about-speaking-out-in-leaked-email/

_Director Andy Harrison informed athletes that interview responses could play a role in British Cycling’s ‘ability to support you as the current season unfolds._

Which he blames on a poorly constructed sentence. Bullshit if I ever saw it. Scrambling backwards once his email got leaked, things must be a lot worse there than we even think.


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## rich p (24 May 2016)

FFS, do these people think it's not going to get in the public domain? 
Are they that naive?


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## mjr (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> FFS, do these people think it's not going to get in the public domain?
> Are they that naive?


In a word, yes. Many people still seem to think that the Microsoft "recall email" function works. The idea that you shouldn't type things into a computer if you'd be embarrassed if anyone else saw it seems not to have caught on yet.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Oct 2016)

The Friday at 5pm BC Statement, press send and bugger off to the boozer


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Oct 2016)

Sutton's missus might need to review her thinking on this one...





#didhappen #spacewatched


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## midlife (28 Oct 2016)

Now on the BBC front page...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37804761

Shaun


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Dec 2016)

Latest news is that only one of the nine allegations was upheld.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Dec 2016)

I don't think we've heard the last of it
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/varnish-steps-up-case-against-sutton-with-british-cycling/


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## ColinJ (14 Dec 2016)

Marmion said:


> I don't think we've heard the last of it
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/varnish-steps-up-case-against-sutton-with-british-cycling/


There will be trouble if anything incriminating IS found after British Cycling said that use of the word 'bitches' was the only mistake made!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Dec 2016)

ColinJ said:


> There will be trouble if anything incriminating IS found after British Cycling said that use of the word 'bitches' was the only mistake made!


I'll run a book if you want; I'll be offering shite odds on "something is found" tho


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## HF2300 (15 Dec 2016)

As a side issue, this:

_Sutton said the choice was made purely on performance. "They went head-to-head on five occasions with the French team who beat them overall by three points, and the French beat them on four occasions. So they didn't deserve the place."
_
...doesn't actually seem to make sense. Surely, assuming a team is going to be sent for a particular event, you merit your place on your performance vs. others who are also competing for team places, not against some other country's athletes.

I can see an argument that the team must be competitive overall, but given the British Cycling team's tendency to peak for the Olympics and underperform earlier in the cycle, the same criticism could be levelled at many others who were eventually selected.


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## oldroadman (15 Dec 2016)

HF2300 said:


> As a side issue, this:
> 
> _Sutton said the choice was made purely on performance. "They went head-to-head on five occasions with the French team who beat them overall by three points, and the French beat them on four occasions. So they didn't deserve the place._
> ...doesn't actually seem to make sense. Surely, assuming a team is going to be sent for a particular event, you merit your place on your performance vs. others who are also competing for team places, not against some other country's athletes.
> ...


It would be interesting to see the training and trial times over a period of a few years. If the rider is getting faster then they need to be considered. If on the other hand they are static and the opposition is improving, then questions need to be asked. I don't see anyone complaining about all the wins, and behind the scenes in a successful team it's not all fluffy bunnies and cuddles, it's a stone hard numbers driven (and some would say brutal) world. If a rider is not showing the expected form, if they want to think it's all the coaches fault, then the rider is the one who needs a reflective look and sometimes the coaches have to provide the mirror with cold facts. All that said it's a sad business, but in the end no rider or coach is entitled to their job, it's about delivering the results. As anyone who has been around a high level will know, things get said which might be thought of as awful in a politically correct office, but the environment is entirely different and incredibly pressurised at times. A lot of money is getting spent on one end product, wins.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Dec 2016)

There is nothing "politically correct" about it.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Dec 2016)

Sorry, @ oldroadman, that's just a standard excuse for basic sexism.


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## rich p (15 Dec 2016)

Jason Kenny wasn't pulling up trees in the mid Olympics period. But then he's not a bitch and can't get pregnant


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jan 2017)

Cookson says "It's ok to be sexist and a bully if you get the medals" or something like that
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/coo...g-claims-says-he-has-a-great-respect-for-him/


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## HF2300 (20 Jan 2017)

Nobber


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jan 2017)

BC CEO leaves post ahead of the publication of independent review publication
http://road.cc/content/news/215961-...e-leaves-post-immediate-effect-investigations

Smoke, fire, sh*t-storm?


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## HF2300 (21 Jan 2017)

British Cycling said:


> Drake's leaving date has been brought forward because he has completed handover of his duties, and chief operating officer Jamie Obank has been approached to lead the governing body until his successor recruited.



This sounds unusual - wouldn't you expect a CEO to hand over to their successor, or at least interim? Who has he handed over to?

Article later says the idea came from him, which might mean he's trying to get out while the getting's good, or he's already set up something else to go to and needs to be there before April.


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## HF2300 (21 Jan 2017)

Marmion said:


> Cookson says "It's ok to be sexist and a bully if you get the medals" or something like that
> https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/coo...g-claims-says-he-has-a-great-respect-for-him/



This makes me really angry. It's reasonable enough to point out that there are only so many places at the top of the ladder, and that some who fall along the way may look for perhaps invalid reasons why they fell. It's not acceptable if he's using that to dismiss legitimate concerns, and it seems there are some legitimate concerns.

Moreover, the suggestion that 'some people didn't find [Sutton's] approach so comfortable' seems to be tacit acknowledgement of a hard-nosed, perhaps bullying attitude. Perhaps some people will need that attitude, others won't; it's the mark of a good coach or manager that they are able to adapt their style to get the best out of those they are managing.

To suggest that Sutton may have been a bully but it's OK because he got the results is a nonsense anyway, because you have no benchmark. How can you be certain that in the same situation, with the same financial and technical input and the same athletes, someone with a different attitude might have got better results? Bullying is never, ever acceptable no matter what the results.

Isn't it also slightly odd that Cookson is airing what seem to be his personal opinions anyway? The guy is head of the UCI - surely he must be aware that whatever he says will be taken as the official line, or at least a reflection of the official view within UCI and perhaps BC?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Feb 2017)

The publication of the report has been delayed
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ing-allegations-shane-sutton?CMP=share_btn_tw


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## Crackle (8 Feb 2017)

Yeah I read that. UK Sport are scrambling about to take a higher position and distance themselves from any governance oversight of how public funds are spent by national federations. Yeah I know they're a funding body but...


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## mjr (9 Feb 2017)

Crackle said:


> Yeah I read that. UK Sport are scrambling about to take a higher position and distance themselves from any governance oversight of how public funds are spent by national federations. Yeah I know they're a funding body but...


I'll be very surprised if the government has any problem with that, given that the Department for Transport currently take a higher position and distance themselves from any governance oversight of how public funds are spent on cycling (or against it or not at all) by highway authorities because localism.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Feb 2017)

The phrase "dropping like flies" comes to mind*
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...n-310724?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

*as could "fleeing like rats"...


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## Crackle (9 Feb 2017)

Marmion said:


> The phrase "dropping like flies" comes to mind*
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...n-310724?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social
> 
> *as could "fleeing like rats"...


Ex-VW boss takes over. At least he should be able to reduce the amount of emissions from BC, or maybe not......


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## mjr (9 Feb 2017)

Marmion said:


> The phrase "dropping like flies" comes to mind*
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...n-310724?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social
> 
> *as could "fleeing like rats"...


I also doubt this bit from that report: "The organisation has also halved the size of its executive leadership committee from eight to four senior staff members – a move that had been planned for some time to improve communication across the organisation."

How can half as many staff doing the same work mean they're going to have more time to talk to members?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Feb 2017)

mjr said:


> I also doubt this bit from that report: "The organisation has also halved the size of its executive leadership committee from eight to four senior staff members – a move that had been planned for some time to improve communication across the organisation."
> 
> How can half as many staff doing the same work mean they're going to have more time to talk to members?


You're not smelling bullsh*t are you? 

It cannae be long before BC rename themselves BS...


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## BrumJim (9 Feb 2017)

Crackle said:


> Ex-VW boss takes over. At least he should be able to reduce the amount of emissions from BC, or maybe not......


I've met him.

A couple of years ago we were doing a Sportive from Malvern. The Cycling Weekly Mad Hatter Sportive. We left on the second wave, and caught up with this bloke who was looking for company at a decent speed, and liked the pace and company, so stayed with us for the rest of the ride. We got chatting, and he told us that he worked in Automotive, but was looking to retire. For some reason, my cycling companion decided to have a better look. Easy to find his name in the list of finishers, did a quick search on the internet, and found a few articles with his name and photo. Turned out that "worked in automotive" meant a bit more than that. He was head of VW North America after being something very important in Jaguar, so maybe not involved with the emissions scandal stuff, but this broke after we met him, and there is no doubt that he would not have revealed anything to a couple of strangers anyway.

I'm following him on Strava, and he has been doing some lovely, serious rides since we met him - proper stuff in the Pyrenees and similar.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Feb 2017)

Oh, you moaning Minnies, you gloomy Gerties. Here's some jolly news to cheer you up.

British Cycling has been shortlisted for the Sports Industry Awards’ Governing Body of the Year award.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Feb 2017)

It's all going swimmingly at BC. 
Cookson taking a "no comment" approach, it does seem to suit him better than when he does open his mouth.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39037374


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## Crackle (22 Feb 2017)

I don't have a lot of sympathy for UKSport, they should quit whinging after the event and examine their own role in funding a body with potentially lapse governance. They're pretty quick to ruin athletes lives by withdrawing funding and being pretty hard nosed about it and fund the those producing medals no matter what or how; pathetic hypocrites.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2017)

Marmion said:


> It's all going swimmingly at BC.
> Cookson taking a "no comment" approach, it does seem to suit him better than when he does open his mouth.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39037374


I'm currently reading "The Breakaway" and Cookson comes out as a nice-but-ineffective BC president.

This quote from UK Sport's Chief Exec is an amazing piece of arse-covering: "It's fair to say that the high-performance system here is pretty male-dominated. There aren't very many female coaches and there's an opportunity to address that in future, and to get a better balance to support athletes in a way that athletes of today want to be supported." They've had nearly two decades to address that and have failed to do so at every turn. History says they can't be trusted to do it themselves, so much as I dislike such measures, I feel it's time to attach some clear equality strings (athlete, coach and management) to their funding and remit.



Crackle said:


> I don't have a lot of sympathy for UKSport, they should quit whinging after the event and examine their own role in funding a body with potentially lapse governance. They're pretty quick to ruin athletes lives by withdrawing funding and being pretty hard nosed about it and fund the those producing medals no matter what or how; pathetic hypocrites.


Actually, if UKSport had been funding those producing medals, I think Cooke might have been a lot less unhappy! During her time, she seemed to get funding intermittently, grudgingly and often with attempts to control her, despite winning medals at a time when the consistently better-funded blessed men and few women weren't. When she tried to get UK Sport to intervene, they initially refused and then were pretty ineffective. So no, I've little sympathy for UKSport and don't really expect this review to fix things... but I'd love to be surprised.

Back to the topic: Shane Sutton. In "The Breakaway" so far, he seems to be a loose cannon, initially helpful, although possibly slightly Machiavellian, but then later unpredictable and often disrespectful or disruptive, possibly when he realises that no-one in management is going to act on complaints against him in any meaningful way.

Anyone grumbling that Cooke's written evidence to the select committee was short on detail and dates should take a look in the book. It's all there and it seems like she's kept quite an archive of letters, emails and so on, with her solicitor getting involved depressingly early on.


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## deptfordmarmoset (1 Mar 2017)

Varnish shows no intention of being vanished.https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/28/jess-varnish-british-cycling-report-secrecy


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## HF2300 (1 Mar 2017)

Have to say I hope if there's one thing that comes out of all this it'll be not any one person's success or failure, but an improvement in sports administration generally.

Over the various doping and BC threads in here we've talked about difficulties, incompetence, blindness, naivety, cynicism or corruption in BC, UCI, UKAD, WADA, UK Sport, IAAF and many other national and international bodies.

Let's hope the long term outcome of all this is an end to self-electing, self-perpetuating closed shops answerable to no-one and the start of an era of sporting bodies that are genuinely answerable to and work on behalf of their members, competitors and the public that ultimately fund them.


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

Brutish Cycling leak a bit more on bullying in an attempt to distract from the jiffy bag? http://road.cc/content/news/218847-...rship-reportedly-condemned-independent-review


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## HF2300 (10 Mar 2017)

Grauniad's take on it: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-dave-brailsford-reputation-in-tatters-review


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## Flick of the Elbow (11 Mar 2017)

Lead story on BBC Breakfast just now, interviews with Jess Varnish and Rochelle Gilmore.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Mar 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Lead story on BBC Breakfast just now, interviews with Jess Varnish and Rochelle Gilmore.


Ta for the news. The cycling bit starts 1 hour into the programme, at 7:01am, continuing at 7:09.

There's a fuller Varnish interview here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39234548


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## Crackle (15 Mar 2017)

Crackle said:


> I don't have a lot of sympathy for UKSport, they should quit whinging after the event and examine their own role in funding a body with potentially lapse governance. They're pretty quick to ruin athletes lives by withdrawing funding and being pretty hard nosed about it and fund the those producing medals no matter what or how; pathetic hypocrites.



So now we find that UKsport and British Cycling were, as suspected, thick as thieves and lapse in their governance oversight in their relentless pursuit of medals.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/15/uk-sport-went-easy-british-cycling-medal-factory

_“With cycling, the UK Sport governance team felt they couldn’t ever go firm on them on any issue because they would come under pressure from the performance guys if they started poking around too much. No one wanted to disrupt the medal factory. It had the status of a special sport._”


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## Viking (31 Mar 2017)

I saw a bit of this yesterday whilst having my breakfast in Sainsbury's cafe and rubbernecking behind some git who had grabbed the last free newspaper 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...sists-british-cycling-is-not-sexist-9fkgtvvfq
which I think is behind a paywall 

I found this after some searching which is hopefully the complete article

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...q?shareToken=7bc7175b64e346da36e0664f6d1872a9


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