# Really horrible BSO's - why do people buy them?



## SkipdiverJohn (14 Aug 2018)

The other night at work I chanced upon a 26" "Dunlop" full-sus MTB abandoned against some gates I needed to drive through in the van, so I got out to shift it. First thing that hit me was the weight, and as a fan of old steel bikes I'm no snowflake who expects bikes to be so light they levitate by themselves. But this thing felt like it had had it's frame filled with lead, it was HEAVY - must have been well into the-40's pounds range. Not even a big frame size either.





Squeezed front disc brake and lever hit bar with no brake action. Back brake barely worked. O/S pedal had disintegrated and was hanging loosely on spindle. Not a pristine example. Should have known what to expect, but no, I just had to have a ride on it didn't I? So I get on and set off down the road. After a hundred yards I'm beginning to realise it wasn't such a good idea; bounce, bounce, clank, wobble from back end, unpleasant bobbing motion from forks, and the thing felt like I was trying to ride it through treacle it was such hard work. Turned round ASAP and back to work. Did a quick appraisal of what bits would fit my old rigids and decided it was a spare parts donor, not a bike to ride. The gear bits on it aren't even budget Shimano, the rear mech is branded Dunlop and the front one just says "power" Saddle OK & wheels look to be useable quality items, once the discs were taken off and binned, as they will fit in a rim braked MTB frame. I've ridden plenty of cheap bikes, and outright junk bikes, but this BSO set a new low standard for me. I'm really trying to understand how anyone can actually BUY one of these things using actual money they've had to earn. It was there for the taking and even _free gratis _I didn't want it to ride on! My old skip-rescued Apollo is like a Rolls Royce compared to this Dunlop BSO junk.


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## rugby bloke (14 Aug 2018)

I'm guessing - either its all they can afford - looks like they sit around the £150 - £200 mark, or they don't know any better.


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## Alan O (14 Aug 2018)

rugby bloke said:


> I'm guessing - either its all they can afford - looks like they sit around the £150 - £200 mark, or they don't know any better.


Yep, there's a market for very cheap bikes for people who know absolutely nothing about bikes.


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## rugby bloke (14 Aug 2018)

Sorry, not sure what your point is ?


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## roadrash (14 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> wheels look to be useable quality items, once the discs were taken off and binned, as they will fit in a rim braked MTB frame



the wheels may not be suitable for your rim braked mtb, you may find no braking surface on the rims if they are disc braked


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## MichaelW2 (14 Aug 2018)

For £99.00, less is more. Some of the very basic non-sus discount bikes are rideable, at least far more ridable than a wannabe full sus made with steel tubes that wannabe aluminium.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Aug 2018)

rugby bloke said:


> I'm guessing - either its all they can afford - looks like they sit around the £150 - £200 mark, or they don't know any better.



I get that not everyone wants to or cannot afford to spend serious money on bikes - but you can buy cheapo rigid MTB's and hybrids that won't pitch and bounce all over the road for around the £100 mark. These things are just all show and no go, more weight, more bits to wear out - and truly horrible to ride.

As for the rims, the profile looks exactly the same as any of my other 26" MTB wheels. They are a garish blue colour with rim decals, but they should work OK, and they will only get used for low-speed local hack use.


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## Levo-Lon (14 Aug 2018)

I remember my mum got 2 bikes of some shyte buy TV program.
She was delighted at only paying £75 each for them.

I took one look at these things and thought ohh well they won't hurt themselves on these as they won't ride them.
They got thrown away a year later after sitting in the garden, mostly plastic and some kind of metal..


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## Levo-Lon (14 Aug 2018)

Skip driver why salvage that??
It will be crap from the tyres up.
Even the dust caps will be poor fitting


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## rugby bloke (14 Aug 2018)

I suppose that's where the don't know better bit comes in - buy a full suspension mtb with disc brakes because it seems like a lot of bike for the money, when you could save your money and buy something simpler but cheaper. Or they got the wrong side of a clever salesman ...


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## biggs682 (14 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> Yep, there's a market for very cheap bikes for people who know absolutely nothing about bikes.



You can buy a decent quality 2nd bike for a similar value


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## uphillstruggler (14 Aug 2018)

not everyone has a decathlon shop near them, for £159 you can get a decent front suspension mtb and it will last

shame as the Dunlop has probably put someone off cycling


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## Alan O (14 Aug 2018)

rugby bloke said:


> Sorry, not sure what your point is ?


Really just that I suspect it's simply people who want a bike without knowing anything about bikes, and who have no idea why one might cost more than a couple of hundred quid - and there's always someone who will sell crap at the price people are prepared to pay.

I might have suspected most are bought for kids who only want to ride it to the corner of the street just to hang out with their mates, except that most of the lads who hang out on street corners round here have more taste and tend to have reasonably decent bikes.

I've had people asking me about cheap bikes (people who know I like bikes and know I'm cheap!) Someone recently thought he must surely be able to get one for less than £200. I talked him through the cost of the cheapest decent components (based on a couple of rebuilds I've done recently), and then asked if he'd want to risk his life riding a collection of components which were the cheapest China was capable of making.

He did manage to get a bike for less than £200, a pretty good second hand one, but if he hadn't been able to ask me he'd very likely have bought a BSO purely out of ignorance.


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## Alan O (14 Aug 2018)

biggs682 said:


> You can buy a decent quality 2nd bike for a similar value


Very much so, and usually significantly better. But there's a lot of people who don't know that, who don't buy second hand, who don't use the internet, who haven't a clue how to find second hand stuff, whose kids would throw second hand stuff back in their faces... etc


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## Dec66 (14 Aug 2018)

Isn't Dunlop owned by Sports Direct now, along with Slazenger, Lonsdale, Karrimor, Muddy Fox and a host of other "illustrious" brand names, bought by Mike Ashley in other to tempt the unwary into buying dross?


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## Cycleops (14 Aug 2018)

That Mike Ashley has a lot to answer for!


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Aug 2018)

Crap direct


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## Lonestar (14 Aug 2018)

Who cares about BSO's? It's the ugly big w/panzers I dislike.


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## simonali (14 Aug 2018)

meta lon said:


> Skip driver why salvage that??
> It will be crap from the tyres up.
> Even the dust caps will be poor fitting



Salvage? They used to call it stealing in my day...


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## boydj (14 Aug 2018)

I have one of these in my garage. My sister-in-law won one in a raffle and asked me to store it while they made some alterations to the house. I had to cycle it about a mile up the road (uphill mostly) - and I ended up walking it for the last half-mile. It seemed like about 90% of the pedalling effort was lost in the suspension. If I had paid money for that I would either have been put off cycling for life or taken it back as not fit for purpose.


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## screenman (14 Aug 2018)

A mechanic at one of the garages I do work for bought one for £85 about 6 years ago, he rode the 3 miles to work and the 3 miles back every work day until a month or so back, same chain same tyres. I guess he got value for money on that one.


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## s7ephanie (14 Aug 2018)

I started with a supermarket bso ! Then decathlon bike and now a giant, slowly working up !


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## screenman (14 Aug 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Crap direct



I get some OK things in there for not a lot of money.


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## Supersuperleeds (14 Aug 2018)

A couple of years ago I needed to get my lad a bike for the summer, I knew he wouldn't look after it so bought him a Halfords special for £99, it lasted the summer before he knackered it.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Aug 2018)

boydj said:


> I have one of these in my garage. It seemed like about 90% of the pedalling effort was lost in the suspension. If I had paid money for that I would either have been put off cycling for life or taken it back as not fit for purpose.



It's interesting if you look at the chainset. A typical mass produced rigid MTB or hybrid will come with a 28/38/48 triple. I've stripped a few of these sort of full-sus BSO's now, and they seem to come with 24/34/42 chainrings. Why might this be I thought? The obvious answer is the makers know how heavy and draggy to pedal they are, so they deliberately fit lower gearing compared to a rigid bike to try to hide just how much hard work they are!


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## MartinQ (14 Aug 2018)

Dec66 said:


> Isn't Dunlop owned by Sports Direct now, along with Slazenger, Lonsdale, Karrimor, Muddy Fox and a host of other "illustrious" brand names, bought by Mike Ashley in other to tempt the unwary into buying dross?



Think you missed off NUFC :-)


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## Pat "5mph" (14 Aug 2018)

Years ago, one of the women in my group turned up in such a bike, she had bought it from Gumtree for 90 pounds.
We were only going for a ride along the canal, she could not keep up due to her bike, she was quite young, fit, but the bike was bouncing allover, dual suspension, really heavy thing.
I asked her why did she pick that one, she answered, well, it was cheap, it was advertised as a downhill bike, I want to do mountain biking.
Yes, I said, but we are not going downhill!
Maybe on a light downhill trail it would have been ok for a few rides, before disintegrating.
People are misled, buy bikes without riding them first, enticed by the price and by the description.
She had to abandon the canal ride.


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## Drago (14 Aug 2018)

Occasjonally over the years ive had people turn up at one of my courses on something like this. Some werent even roadworthy, so got sent packing. The riders of the ones that were (usually barely) roadworthy didn't have a good time.


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## classic33 (14 Aug 2018)

simonali said:


> Salvage? They used to call it stealing in my day...


Maybe it was and ridden into the ground.

First port of call was a police station I hope.


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## gaijintendo (14 Aug 2018)

Here is how you buy a bike like that:
Go onto Google Shopping or Amazon
Search "Bike".
Set maximum price you want to spend and order by price descending.
Then go as low as you can before the results are mostly accessories.
Check you trust the retailer (e.g. Sports Direct? I know of them!)
Buy that bike.

Nobody has bought one of these and ridden it beforehand. Or if they have it was 5 meters in a Retail Park store at best. I would suggest, before the pedals snap off, and without having to make an effort - the full suspension feels nice and soft.


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## NorthernDave (14 Aug 2018)

Because they look quite flashy online if you don't know much about bikes and appear to have a lot of kit on them for £99 (or whatever)?
If you buy one in a (non-bike focussed) store like Tesco Extra, Sports Direct or Argos, for example, you won't get to ride it beforehand and you'll get passed your bike over the counter in a box and either way you'll get to "simply assemble" it at home later using an included and very thin pressed metal spanner that doesn't quite fit all the nuts and bolts...

Plus there is an element of "Look I've bought a full sus disc brakes MTB for less than half what Halfords wanted for a Carrera", perhaps?


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## gbb (14 Aug 2018)

Guy at work brought one online...it broke a sprocket on the first ride. He couldn't understand why a bike that was a 'bargain' at £80 failed so miserably.

Another guy talked to me endlessly about buying a bike. I suggested endlessly...do NOT but anything less than say £120, certainly not one of those Dunlop type bikes, a couple weeks later...he proudly walked in with his sub £100 BSO. 

Shops sell them because there's a profit in them. They don't care if they're suitable or not,..they only care if there's a profit in it.

My LBS owner once said they do a great deal of damage to cycling. Someone who want to get into it buys his / her BSO, struggles with the weight, the poor quality etc,...and decides cycling definitely isn't for them. What a shame, if only they'd brought a half decent bike for another £30 to £50.


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## Jenkins (14 Aug 2018)

Years ago my sister & brother in law got one each on a BOGOF for around the £100 mark from Sports Direct. After a few rides where the BIL's one got punctures in the rear every time and fed up of replacing/repairing tubes they got relegated to the back of the garage. When they had a clearout to make room I was asked to give the bikes a quick check over before they tried to sell them - I'd forgotten how heavy bikes were and the lack of component quality and build standards were at that price point - it turned out the BIL's rear wheel had no rim tape at all hence all the punctures. Nobody would buy them so they ended up in the skip anyhow.

I donated a Giant flatbar that I never got on with to my sister as a replacement and she couldn't believe the difference in weight and quality and it's still in regular use over 5 years later.


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## Milkfloat (15 Aug 2018)

If you look really careful there are a few suitable bikes in the BSO category from the likes of Sports Direct. I managed to snag a useable kids bike that had 24” wheels, rigid fork, tourney rear mech and brakes that pretty much worked. I put some slicks on it and it lasted fine for a few years for a couple of kids. Yes, I had to hunt high and low, plus I had to cold set the fork as spacing was far too narrow for the wheel, but it still works to this day. The cost £60, new.


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Aug 2018)

A cheap functional bike like you got isn't really a BSO in my eyes. Sports direct usually have a 26" Energy rigid MTB on offer for £95, with basic Shimano on it. I've seen a couple locally in the flesh being used as town hacks, and they are pretty much on a par with any other cheapo rigid offering. I wouldn't expect perfection out of the box for £100, and I'd expect to have to do a bit of tweaking of gears & brakes. Where the real rubbish BSO's differ though is they go for gimmicky features like suspension, but below the price you can engineer them properly. The result is junk, whereas a cheap rigid might not be anything fancy but it is at least likely to work properly once adjusted.


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## Edwardoka (15 Aug 2018)

It's the stuff marketed as "Shimano geared mountain bikes" as though that's a badge of quality. And "ooh it has 18 gears" and "suspension, that will help with the sore bum". I once borrowed a £60 asda jobby bike to do my commuting while my main bike was getting serviced and it did not survive a single commute.

My friend had a BSO (bought against my recommendations) and was looking to replace it and had the budget for a tanky hybrid or a B'twin Triban. I told him to go with the Triban as IMO you straight up can't get a better new bike for that money.

Of course he went with the hybrid and we made sure he lived to regret his choice on the Five Ferries challenge.


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## Gravity Aided (15 Aug 2018)

I see these things every time I go to the bike co-op, people bringing them in for repairs almost constantly. Which is our job, that and getting them into something slightly better. It used to be that BSOs were content to be basic, but now that they feel they have to have full suspension and an approximation of all the things higher end bicycles have, without the quality or reliability, they are much less a bicycle, and more a breakdown or injury waiting to happen. That this is inflicted on the general public on such a massive scale, with such disregard for public safety and health, is just another reason to buy a cycle from someone you know, who has been in business for some time, or become knowledgeable yourself, and make your own choices in the new or used market. So many people want to get into cycling without knowing anything about it, and that's no way to make a start of anything. Automobile dealers contend with/profit from this/ all the time, and I suppose people expect a similar experience with bicycles.


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## Globalti (15 Aug 2018)

Same s


SkipdiverJohn said:


> A cheap functional bike like you got isn't really a BSO in my eyes. Sports direct usually have a 26" Energy rigid MTB on offer for £95, with basic Shimano on it. I've seen a couple locally in the flesh being used as town hacks, and they are pretty much on a par with any other cheapo rigid offering. I wouldn't expect perfection out of the box for £100, and I'd expect to have to do a bit of tweaking of gears & brakes. Where the real rubbish BSO's differ though is they go for gimmicky features like suspension, but below the price you can engineer them properly. The result is junk, whereas a cheap rigid might not be anything fancy but it is at least likely to work properly once adjusted.



But you can't adjust them! A pal of mine bought one for £99 for his GF and asked me to look at the brakes. Sure enough the pads weren't meeting the rims right and I tried to reset them but the nut and washer system was so bad that every time I tightened the nut, the pads went out of line. On top of that the brakes were flimsy steel pressings so when you braked the pads went out of line anyway. I gave it up as a bad job and the GF never rode it.


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## Gravity Aided (15 Aug 2018)

First thing I do when encountering one of those pressed steel brake arms is replace it.


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## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2018)

Before I came to Germany I worked in a large well known bike shop for a while with a great supervisor who loved bikes and tried to help people get the bike they needed. One time we had a relatively good, basic Saracen rigid for about GBP 200, which we often recommended to people. One day an apalling 'own brand' monstrosity was delivered with a 'Y' frame made of scaffolding and entirely fake suspension forks, a right BSO. This was way overpriced at GBP200. We wouldn't have paid fifty for it but it was the one that got all the attention that week.
The week after we were sent instructions to place a "Reduced to GBP 99.99" on it, and they flew out of the shop for the next months. We kept pointing out to people that it was basically scrap and the Saracen was a better buy for the money, but no-one even looked twice: everyone wanted the 'Y' framed scaffolding BSO.
I've often wondered how long they lasted, probably still a few are lurking in sheds having been ridden once in the 1990's,


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## guitarpete247 (15 Aug 2018)

Picked the granddaughters bikes for a bit of ride around our lanes. I bought the eldest hers off eBay a couple of years ago. Was going to buy youngest one this year but mum and new boyfriend got her one from Halfords. I really struggled getting the Halfords special on the roof rack. Both are full-sus MTB types but hers, though smaller weighs a ton


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## Globalti (15 Aug 2018)

A couple of years ago we spotted a young woman riding a supermarket special with a rigid frame and fork. Good.... but the fork was on back to front, with the prongs curling backwards. I chased her down and asked if she would mind me putting her bike right. She told me her boyfriend had built it for her. "Well, he doesn't know much about bikes, does he? " was all I could say.


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## guitarpete247 (15 Aug 2018)

I did a course to be bike ability instructor a few years ago. 1 student, young lad just out school, with a Halfords Apollo, had front forks reversed. He said it rode oddly. I thought it was a test to see if anyone spotted but wasn't.


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## MontyVeda (15 Aug 2018)

A few years ago a mate of mine thought he'd found the bargain of the century... a full suspension MTB, brand spanking new, from a glossy mail order pamphlet for £80.00. But the £80 MTB wasn't _the_ bargain... it was the buy-one-get-one-free offer!

This guy clearly new feck all about bikes because when he showed me his bargains, he'd managed to get the forks backwards and hadn't noticed. I'm not one for sucking my teeth but i did that day.


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## gbb (15 Aug 2018)

In the end I guess you can break it down to...
Some people are stupid and won't be told.
Some people are stupid enough not to realise a sub £100 BSO Is usually going to be carp.
Some shops don't give a damn. If it makes money they'd sell you cat sheet if they could.
Ditto the manufacturers.


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## gbb (15 Aug 2018)

And yet....
Former colleague brought a Toys R Us 'racer' a few years back, £50, half the normal price.
TBF he rode it a fair bit to work and it did ok, despite having tyres made from rubber about 6mm thick. It was never a looker, it wasn't ever going to compete in any way with a budget road bike from any leading manufacturer but even so...it fulfilled his needs for quite a while.


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## MontyVeda (15 Aug 2018)

gbb said:


> In the end I guess you can break it down to...
> Some people are stupid and won't be told.
> Some people are stupid enough not to realise a sub £100 BSO Is usually going to be carp.
> ...



I think many are just optimistic.


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## marshmella (15 Aug 2018)

All this talk of £60 and £80 BSO makes you wonder how there can be any profit in them?


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## roadrash (15 Aug 2018)

^^^^ that gives you some idea how shyte they are^^^


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## stoatsngroats (15 Aug 2018)

I had one, a Barracuda, dual suspension, a triple.

I used to walk the dog along the river, for about 10 miles, quite frequently.

I never knew how crap it was until I joined CC


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## mgs315 (15 Aug 2018)

I remember as an 18 year old being left behind on what I thought was a substantial hill on my dad’s old BSO when cycling to the local pub for a few shifts. I thought I was unfit until I tried a mates BSO at Centre Parcs recently (I myself didn’t have my posh carbon with me, still an 11.5kg Triban) but fark me that suspension made it twice as hard to pedal as even the most basic non-BSO road bike.

I laugh when I reach that apparent hill I hated as an 18-year-old now that I’m 30 but know a bit about bikes. I’d call it a false flat these days.


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## dantheman (15 Aug 2018)

It was a dual suspension Raleigh bike that made me find this forum originally... 

I had been riding just to the train station each day for work on an old carrera mtb with front suspension (bought for £15 of a gang of kids) and the wheel basically fell apart, the seatpost was always stuck and was heavy... It broke.... 

So, I borrowed the Raleigh from my now brother-in-law, and I just couldn't believe how shite it was... It was like riding a bike with a pogo stick attached to each wheel........... And I reckon it wasn't as bad as the Dunlop ones.... 

So I searched the Internet, found here and asked about a few of the bikes I had found - I ended up getting a dawes discovery 601 which I was (and am) very happy with - all parts were replaced as they wore out and I've done over 25k miles on it... This year the second set of wheels disintegrated through wear and it sits in my back garden as I've decided that a new secondhand bike is cheaper than new wheel. That and I'm using my sons giant defy 5 for commuting and my own road-bike for weekend rides.. 

One thing I detest on these bikes is the plastic brake levers....


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## Rickshaw Phil (16 Aug 2018)

When I first started to cycle commute I didn't want to leave my Raleigh chained to railings so bought a cheap Apollo which I reasoned I wouldn't really care about if it got stolen. That lasted five years then a lot of parts wore out at the same time. Browsing my local Halfords for the bits needed to repair it I found I'd need to spend a good £80 or there was this on offer at £60:






At the time it seemed like a no-brainer (yes, I know now!) and I was stubborn enough to ride it round for another five years until it wore out and was replaced by the current knockabout bike (far worse quality components when new but a much better ride).

It was really awful and looking back I'm amazed at some of the rides I did on it. I even went over the Long Mynd a few times - one trip in particular sticking in the mind as it took five hours to cover about 30 miles.

Edit to add the point: I did think that I was getting a bargain at the time and not having tried it before thought that suspension was a nice idea and that I'd like to give it a go. I suspect most people buying these heaps are falling into the same trap.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

Any cheap bike is ruined by adding 'suspension'.

There is a reason a Fox or Rock Shox decent fork is around £400 upwards. Rear air cans are about £250 upwards.

Should have gone to Decathlon


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## Rickshaw Phil (16 Aug 2018)

fossyant said:


> Any cheap bike is ruined by adding 'suspension'.
> 
> There is a reason a Fox or Rock Shox decent fork is around £400 upwards. Rear air cans are about £250 upwards.
> 
> Should have gone to Decathlon


Well, yes. I know now. This is quite a few years ago and I'd never heard of Decathlon then (if they'd even opened their Wednesbury store at the time).

Halfords is walking distance hence ending up there.


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## Gixxerman (16 Aug 2018)

I can see how people can be fooled into getting one of these things instead of a proper bike. I almost did the same. For me it was largely ignorance. I was returning to cycling having last owned a bike 35-odd years previous when I was a kid. I started looking in the normal places (Halfrauds etc.). I had fallen into the full-sus camp as that is what I saw was most popular. Luckily for me, a more informed cycle mad work collegue offered me some advice. Get something decent he said else you will not enjoy riding it and it could put you off riding. He gave me a list of reputable makes and from what I wanted it for, he suggseted that a hybrid would be a better fit than a full-sus. Plus to get a decent quality full-sus it would be a lot more money. Anyway, I did a bit of searching. I was initally shocked at the prices. They were all round the £400-£500 range for a decent hybrid. I had it in my head to pay £200 tops as that is what I had in my mind was a good price for a bike. Afterall its only a bike isn't it?; It isn't that complex (I thought). In the end I went for a Trek 7.3FX at £425. I still have it and despite doing many miles on it, it is still original and the only parts I have changed are chains. So I was one of the lucky ones who got some good advice and was saved - many are not.
On the flip side. a relation recently wanted a bike to get round town on. She looked online and in catalogs. She asked me about a bike she had seen in a catalog of some sort. It was the ubiquitous budget double-bouncer at the sum of £149. My heart sank. I told her to give me the money and I'll get her a much better used bike for that money. She said why get a used bike when she could get a shiney new one for the same money? I tried to explain, but she just didn't get it. Anyway the "thing" arrived and I was asked to put it together. The front wheel was so far out of true that it would never have cleared the brakes so I didn't even bother to attempt the build. She sent it back. Good I thought, she's had a change of heart. Nope, so just got a replacement. Again it was my job to build it. This time the wheels were not that bad. Ten minutes with a spoke key got them quite true (how long they'd stay like that was anyone's guess). It had plastic brake levers. The seat was in instrument of torture. It weighed at lot. The rear gears would not go all the way into top, and would also over travel at the bottom and the chain would fall off. Index screws were adjusted and this was fixed. However, despite a lot of effort, I just could not get the indexing to work anyway near reliably. However, when I was finshed, it was at least safe to ride. I lasted less than a year, depsite light used, before the the BB fell to bits. The cost to fix that and other issues that had developed, made it uneconomical to repair, so it became another destined to landfill.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

I see loads of these things at the tip or the metal recyclers on the approach to the tip. Most don't look that old. Spend that bit more and you will have a bike that lasts and can be sold on (assuming people oil it and clean it).


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## classic33 (16 Aug 2018)

Anyone think there's more about as a result of online shopping? The progression of catalogue shopping, where you only see pictures of the bike, until it arrives.


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## Gravity Aided (16 Aug 2018)

Online shopping may well be a component, but the retailers like Wal Mart and the other big box stores prey on the lack of acumen among the general public to sell them shiite. And the fact is, with retail being so large and anonymous these days, who cares?
I sure did, when my name was on the door, in the photo industry, I can tell you that. The fact is that when people buy things from retailers they have no connection with, some awful things can happen. The growth of online retailing is nourished in the manure spread by irresponsible retailing.


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## BromptonChrispy (16 Aug 2018)

Thicko here - what does “BSO” mean?


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## Pat "5mph" (16 Aug 2018)

Not thicko at all, a Brompton can never be a Bike Shaped Object


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## classic33 (16 Aug 2018)

BromptonChrispy said:


> Thicko here - what does “BSO” mean?


*B*icycle *S*haped *O*bject


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## Alan O (16 Aug 2018)

Ha, I just saw one propped up near the local shops - springs everywhere, hardly any wear on the tyres, fork "chrome" horribly rusty.


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## MontyVeda (16 Aug 2018)

marshmella said:


> All this talk of £60 and £80 BSO makes you wonder how there can be any profit in them?


I think it shows just how much profit there is in a 'proper' bike.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

Boardmans are cracking value. A similarly specced big name is often 50-100% more.


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## Tin Pot (16 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The other night at work I chanced upon a 26" "Dunlop" full-sus MTB abandoned against some gates I needed to drive through in the van, so I got out to shift it. First thing that hit me was the weight, and as a fan of old steel bikes I'm no snowflake who expects bikes to be so light they levitate by themselves. But this thing felt like it had had it's frame filled with lead, it was HEAVY - must have been well into the-40's pounds range. Not even a big frame size either.
> View attachment 424445
> 
> Squeezed front disc brake and lever hit bar with no brake action. Back brake barely worked. O/S pedal had disintegrated and was hanging loosely on spindle. Not a pristine example. Should have known what to expect, but no, I just had to have a ride on it didn't I? So I get on and set off down the road. After a hundred yards I'm beginning to realise it wasn't such a good idea; bounce, bounce, clank, wobble from back end, unpleasant bobbing motion from forks, and the thing felt like I was trying to ride it through treacle it was such hard work. Turned round ASAP and back to work. Did a quick appraisal of what bits would fit my old rigids and decided it was a spare parts donor, not a bike to ride. The gear bits on it aren't even budget Shimano, the rear mech is branded Dunlop and the front one just says "power" Saddle OK & wheels look to be useable quality items, once the discs were taken off and binned, as they will fit in a rim braked MTB frame. I've ridden plenty of cheap bikes, and outright junk bikes, but this BSO set a new low standard for me. I'm really trying to understand how anyone can actually BUY one of these things using actual money they've had to earn. It was there for the taking and even _free gratis _I didn't want it to ride on! My old skip-rescued Apollo is like a Rolls Royce compared to this Dunlop BSO junk.



To race your first triathlon with, is one good reason to buy a BSO.



Tin Pot said:


> Man, you got beaten up here didn't you?
> 
> I do, and started on a 16Kg Trax TFS.1 full suspension (if you can call it that) mountain bike and yes, Biggin Hill is a different story on a 9kg road bike
> 
> ...


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Aug 2018)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> I didn't want to leave my Raleigh chained to railings so bought a cheap Apollo which I reasoned I wouldn't really care about if it got stolen..



Likewise I like my old Raleighs as they're real ones made in Nottingham, and although they all cost me peanuts to buy, I still think they're better than any bike thief deserves to have! Apollos are the archetypal cheap station/pub hacks - bought by owners as expendable and not really valued. The railings near my local station had a motley collection of rigid Apollo, Ammaco, Universal & anonymous non-logo'd black 26" MTB's parked up the last time I looked. None I would call a BSO, but all cheap budget quality efforts of little secondhand value. They serve a purpose.



fossyant said:


> Any cheap bike is ruined by adding 'suspension'.
> There is a reason a Fox or Rock Shox decent fork is around £400 upwards. Rear air cans are about £250 upwards.



That's the fundamental problem afflicting most BSO's. You can make a simple rigid bike of acceptable quality cheaply and sell it cheaply, but a suspension BSO, especially a disc brake one, cannot be anything other than a heap of junk if the manufacturer tries to build it at rigid bike price. Adding complication adds greatly to build costs and must be reflected in the retail price for an equivalent quality.


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## dantheman (16 Aug 2018)

[QUOTE 5351315, member: 43827"]Just to be fair to Halfords for a change on a bike forum.

They do sell some rubbish bikes but they also sell pretty good bikes. Both the Carreras and Boardmans are good bikes for the money. Even Apollo, if you're looking for a basic rigid bike, are bikes that will last for those people who are not into racing, downhill, or centuries, which probably covers most casual cyclists.

I have gone along with friends to help them choose from Halfords and they have been very happy with their bikes. I have helped them fine tune their bikes after purchase though, as Halfords mechanics can vary.[/QUOTE]

I actually think Halford have come along leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. Although I wouldn't get any work Done there on my bikes, the stores near me seem to have reasonably good mechanics so far as putting together /punctures/basic setup. I mean if you Want a headset replacing or a wheel truing then your stuffed there, but that's not what the average Joe is going there for.. The carrera and boardman bikes are great at their respective price points and bar a couple of brands they're able to get most brands bought specially for you (why would makes completely rule out such a big seller). 

I mean sure, you need to speak to the right person as some are pathetic (for instance when I was looking I was told I could test ride but only on shop floor, "fair enough mate, any chance of putting saddle up and pumping tyres as they're flat?" followed by a look of " what's that mean) but (maybe this is something proper cyclists easily notice) some know they're stuff and actually can help. 

Halfords will always be a boy racer big bore exhaust seller that also sells bikes, but if you know what you want they're not as bad as they used to be.. 

I've never seen one of their cycle Republic stores, guess they're better.. 

For average Joe, I can see how they could be put off by some of the posher lbs. Even I walk in and can be a little, but nice bike porn..


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## Alan O (16 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Likewise I like my old Raleighs as they're real ones made in Nottingham, and although they all cost me peanuts to buy, I still think they're better than any bike thief deserves to have!


My favourite bike is my lovely old Nottingham Raleigh Royal, though after building it from a frame I got for £40 it has turned out to be rather expensive at approx £250 (not including my Brooks Cambium saddle).

But I really appreciate its value when I occasionally wonder what ideal bike I'd buy new if I had lots of money. I end up certain I'd want steel, with the same super-comfy geometry as my Raleigh Royal, good adjustable cantilever brakes, a wide triple chainset, the simplicity and easy maintainability of friction-shift gears rather than those horribly complex indexed brake/shifter monstrosities where almost nothing is compatible with almost nothing else. And I end up specifying... my Raleigh Royal. And all that money I could spend on an expensive new bike... well, I'm married, so where that goes would be a management decision.


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## Globalti (16 Aug 2018)

The people who buy BSOs are the same people who get suckered into buying naff rowing machines and tummy exercisers from TV shopping channels, try them once, give up then flog them at a car boot sale. Hotel exercise bikes are not much better and the bad position is likely to injure a fit cyclist, which is why when I'm on trips I prefer to drink beer than go to the gym.


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> My favourite bike is my lovely old Nottingham Raleigh Royal, though after building it from a frame I got for £40 it has turned out to be rather expensive at approx £250 (not including my Brooks Cambium saddle)..



I think building bikes up from frames tends to be the expensive route, since whoever stripped off all the mechanicals has extracted a lot of the value out of it, which you then have to reinstate piecemeal. My preference is to buy complete bikes secondhand, even if the intention is to make changes to spec.
However, put the cost in context; I would rate the Raleigh Royal roughly on a par with a Dawes Galaxy in quality and spec terms. If you look up old Dawes prices from the 70's and 80's and adjust for inflation, a 531ST Galaxy would be around £750 in today's money. So therefore, would a Royal roughly speaking. Think of it as having built a fine quality machine for around a third of the price of a brand new equivalent and the cost doesn't seem so bad.


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## Alan O (17 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I think building bikes up from frames tends to be the expensive route, since whoever stripped off all the mechanicals has extracted a lot of the value out of it, which you then have to reinstate piecemeal. My preference is to buy complete bikes secondhand, even if the intention is to make changes to spec.
> However, put the cost in context; I would rate the Raleigh Royal roughly on a par with a Dawes Galaxy in quality and spec terms. If you look up old Dawes prices from the 70's and 80's and adjust for inflation, a 531ST Galaxy would be around £750 in today's money. So therefore, would a Royal roughly speaking. Think of it as having built a fine quality machine for around a third of the price of a brand new equivalent and the cost doesn't seem so bad.


Yes, I definitely agree. Though I say "rather expensive at approx £250", I really mean that in comparison to complete 2nd hand bikes. But it was one of a small handful of classic touring frames that I wanted (a Galaxy would have been just as desirable, yes), and I have it built to my spec with my choice of components - and I'm actually very happy with it for the price.

Someone a while ago asked me if I'd thought of building old bikes to sell on eBay, but that's only a way to lose money. But it did make me think about doing the opposite; buying complete bikes to strip and sell the good components. I've seen a few where I conservatively reckon I could have doubled my money (probably having to scrap the wheels, and maybe even the frame) and maybe made around £100 for a few hours work. But it's just not been in my heart to do that to nice old bikes - I'd rather someone bought them cheap and rode them.


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## Johnno260 (17 Aug 2018)

My MuddyFox fits this category it's old heavy, cheap front shocks, cheap disc brakes, my wife bought it for me years ago.

It's good for going out with the kids and having a trailgator attached, but it's complete junk.


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## jowwy (19 Aug 2018)

I just get cant past thr irony in this post

A skipdiver complaining about people buying bso's, but then keeps the bso he found for parts.......you couldnt make this shoot up


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## KneesUp (19 Aug 2018)

I had a similar bike as described which came as a 'free gift' when I joined a gym. Rode it once, out of curiosity. Along with the general crap-ness, it didn't even fit. The gym only had one size. I gave it away, to someone who wanted it to 'pop to the shops' on. The shops were 200 metres from his house. As far as I know he's ridden it once, and it was 10 years ago I passed it on.


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## SkipdiverJohn (19 Aug 2018)

> I just get cant past thr irony in this post



Spare parts are spare parts. I don't care if they came from a BSO or not so long as I can get some useful service out of them. The BB out of the Dunlop full-sus is now fitted to a 27 year old Raleigh rigid MTB whose original BB was worn out. It actually looked to be in perfect condition when taken from the BSO. By the time it or any other salvaged spare wears out I will have probably found another BSO or two to strip, there's no shortage of them!
What I do find bizarre is how people can buy such bikes in the first place. I'm glad they do as it means free parts, but from an economic perspective junk BSO's are not good value because they are either so horrible to ride they get stuffed in a shed and forgotten about or they do get ridden but soon fall apart under the strain of regular use. You can buy cheap without buying total rubbish, but it seems a lot of low-budget buyers just can't look beyond the flashy appearance inherent with BSO's.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Aug 2018)

A lot of the problem with BSOs is the hardware, which is of a very poor quality, almost like they weren't intended to be fixed. And the forks surely weren't designed to be fixed.
Buy a good bike, and you only cry once.


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## Biff600 (19 Aug 2018)

BromptonChrispy said:


> Thicko here - what does “BSO” mean?



It's a term of endearment given by cycle snobs to any cycle that costs less than the bike that they own, it's not just limited to inexpensive cycles that are purchased from shopping channels or warehouse sales either. It can be absolutely any bike, when I started cycling again a couple of years ago, I bought an £800 Cannondale which was referred to as a BSO !! 

What a lot of folk fail to realise is the fact that some people may not have a great deal of money or buy the bike just to get to work/school/paper-round etc

I have since bought a Pinarello Dogma, (to which I also got flak as it's too good for my level of riding !!) and it's great to see the looks that I get when I use it to nip to Tesco's and ride home with a plastic bag on the handlebars 

Another great snobbish line is 'Not a proper cyclist'


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## Gravity Aided (19 Aug 2018)

How in the world can anyone refer to a Cannondale as a BSO? Nice choice on the Pinarello, BTW. Fine looking bike, that.


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## SkipdiverJohn (19 Aug 2018)

Biff600 said:


> It's a term of endearment given by cycle snobs to any cycle that costs less than the bike that they own, it's not just limited to inexpensive cycles that are purchased from shopping channels or warehouse sales either.
> 
> Another great snobbish line is 'Not a proper cyclist'



I've heard the Raleigh Pioneers called commuter hybrid BSO's before now, despite them being decent bikes - and the ones like mine having a Reynolds double-butted frame FFS! 

"Proper cyclists", in the eye of the snobs, are the ones with expensive bikes AND who always wear all the gear to go with it. Anyone who rides in casual wear, or on a cheaper bike, isn't "proper".


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## Johnno260 (19 Aug 2018)

Biff600 said:


> It's a term of endearment given by cycle snobs to any cycle that costs less than the bike that they own, it's not just limited to inexpensive cycles that are purchased from shopping channels or warehouse sales either. It can be absolutely any bike, when I started cycling again a couple of years ago, I bought an £800 Cannondale which was referred to as a BSO !!
> 
> What a lot of folk fail to realise is the fact that some people may not have a great deal of money or buy the bike just to get to work/school/paper-round etc
> 
> ...



I got abuse for my Boardman, I joined a local ride group and one guy in particular dropped loads of comments, I made an excuse and dropped out mid ride, Then in the mornings I started seeing Mr Snob and he would pass me and drop snide comments, but it helped as I got fitter and started passing him, to which my nice bike comment retort drove him insane.

My Merida isn’t a top flight bike by any degree but I was told by a guy at work who used to do Iron Man comps that it was wasted on me, it makes me happy so I don’t care what others say.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Aug 2018)

I live in the States, and I think about anything above a grocery store bicycle is not a BSO. Some of the bikes referred to in this thread are not BSOs, rather something most of the people I know would aspire to.


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## fatjel (19 Aug 2018)

Welcome to the 21st century Mr Skipdiver
You finally discovered bikes get better the more you spend
Won’t be long before you’re on a carbon aero bike with etap


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## Smokin Joe (19 Aug 2018)

fatjel said:


> Welcome to the 21st century Mr Skipdiver
> You finally discovered bikes get better the more you spend
> Won’t be long before you’re on a carbon aero bike with etap


One of these, perhaps?


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## Drago (19 Aug 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> One of these, perhaps?
> 
> View attachment 425725



If it weren't for the name on the frame I might not even have recognised that as a bike! Jim Felt has a lot to answer for.


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## Alan O (19 Aug 2018)

fatjel said:


> Welcome to the 21st century Mr Skipdiver
> You finally discovered bikes get better the more you spend


Up until you've got £250 in your pocket and access to eBay, maybe


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## classic33 (19 Aug 2018)

Biff600 said:


> It's a term of endearment given by cycle snobs to any cycle that costs less than the bike that they own, it's not just limited to inexpensive cycles that are purchased from shopping channels or warehouse sales either. It can be absolutely any bike, when I started cycling again a couple of years ago, I bought an £800 Cannondale which was referred to as a BSO !!
> *
> What a lot of folk fail to realise is the fact that some people may not have a great deal of money or buy the bike just to get to work/school/paper-round etc
> *
> ...


And right now someone who may have had theirs taken, will be wondering why people take bikes.

First port of call should have been the police, even a phonecall to let them know what you'd found, not breaking the bike up for spares you can't afford otherwise.


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## SkipdiverJohn (19 Aug 2018)

fatjel said:


> Welcome to the 21st century Mr Skipdiver
> You finally discovered bikes get better the more you spend
> Won’t be long before you’re on a carbon aero bike with etap



Bikes have always got (marginally) better at each incremental increase in price, and is nothing new. Once you get into the high hundreds, any further improvements get very small and very expensive. If I desired a carbon bike with etap/Di2, I would already have got one. I don't like either carbon bikes or electronics on bikes, so I'll be sticking with Reynolds steel and nice-looking lugged frames.



Smokin Joe said:


> One of these, perhaps?
> 
> View attachment 425725



My view on that is pretty much the same as @Drago - it doesn't even look like a bike in the normal sense. It's just a big ugly slab of plastic acting as a mobile advertising medium for the makers of it's wheels. I know how expensive those TT bikes are, but I still wouldn't give one house room. Total Mingers to look at. I'd sooner ride my Apollo out of the skip!



Alan O said:


> Up until you've got £250 in your pocket and access to eBay, maybe



I'd agree with that. If you buy used you get a lot more quality for your money, and £250 can buy you a bike that was £1k new. I've never even paid over £20 secondhand, and I got a time-warp 30 year old 531 flat-bar for that, with very little wear & tear. £30 more spent on tyres & tubes and it's back on the road pretty much as good as the day it left Nottingham..


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## Gravity Aided (19 Aug 2018)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUHrJpM6W6c


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## mgs315 (19 Aug 2018)

Biff600 said:


> It's a term of endearment given by cycle snobs to any cycle that costs less than the bike that they own, it's not just limited to inexpensive cycles that are purchased from shopping channels or warehouse sales either. It can be absolutely any bike, when I started cycling again a couple of years ago, I bought an £800 Cannondale which was referred to as a BSO !!
> 
> What a lot of folk fail to realise is the fact that some people may not have a great deal of money or buy the bike just to get to work/school/paper-round etc
> 
> ...



Aye you can’t win really! Either it’s a BSO or you’ve more money than sense apparently. I’ve had both comments on my TCR. 

One I like is when you beat said BSO critics up the local climbs. Should offer to swap bikes then!


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