# Are these worth holding on to?



## bristolbikeguy (2 Apr 2013)

Hi 

I've got a two Raleigh Pioneer bikes. One is a Pioneer Trail from the 90s. I (stupidly) took it to Halfords for a 'service' and they totally buggered it up. I got a refund, but the gears aren't working properly. It needs fixing.

The other one is one I bought because I was caught without a bike. I got it for £50, a Pioneer Venture. I think it's from the same era because it's quite old. 

Which one should I keep - would it be better to fix the Trail and get rid of the Venture, or just keep the Venture?

Thanks!


----------



## tyred (2 Apr 2013)

Are these steel MTBs without suspension?

If so, they are definitely worth holding on to and spending a bit of time on. With slick tyres, mudguards, a carrier and some dynamo lights hey make excellent all round bikes for commuting or touring.

It need not cost a fortune to do this.


----------



## bristolbikeguy (2 Apr 2013)

Hi 
Thanks for the reply.

They are not MTBs as such - they seem to be hybrids as they have hybrid tires, but 21 gears on each. Big wheels too. I'll try and post some pictures up. 

The problem with the Trail is that the gears aren't shifting properly. The people at Halfords replaced the gear cables and the left shifter, and then it wouldn't change properly after that. When they gave it back and I rode it for the first time the chain came off when I changed gear (in both directions!) They spent a month (literally) trying to fix it but couldn't figure it out. 

They've replaced the rear derailleur with what looks like a cheap shimano one. Should I stick the original back on? I don't think there was anything wrong with it I think they just were trying anything they could.

I'll post some pictures of the bikes.


----------



## tyred (2 Apr 2013)

The gears probably just need setting up. This isn't actually that difficult to do and you should find all the information you require on Sheldon Brown's website or any number of youtube videos.


----------



## bristolbikeguy (2 Apr 2013)

This is the Trail
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1poPrvZWg5GR0FNX3lEbmpFWk0/edit?usp=sharing

This is the replacement rear DR that Halfords fitted as a replacement - should I put the original back on?
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1poPrvZWg5GbkQxU2tMem9uRHc/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1poPrvZWg5GdW5vd2djUksxSzQ/edit?usp=sharing

This is the Venture
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1poPrvZWg5GN3BTV3Z1anphQUE/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (2 Apr 2013)

Hi Bristolbikeguy & .

That Pioneer Trail looks to be a similar vintage (mid to late 90's) to my Pioneer Jaguar:






The Venture is probably early 90's.

I'd say both of those are worth keeping and fettling up as they are quite modifiable and nice riding machines (in my opinion).

The rear derailleur that has been fitted _is _from the cheap end of shimano's range _but_ it is a good one and should shift really smoothly when correctly set up. Unless what was fitted before was something higher spec I wouldn't change it back.

Until the recent upgrade I had the same one fitted to mine.

The Sheldon Brown article that Tyred refers to is HERE. I hope it helps.


----------



## bristolbikeguy (2 Apr 2013)

Thanks Phil

I took a look at the frames and the Venture has some kind of carbon steel 18 23 frame. The Trail has 4130 chromoly.

The Trail feels much 'nicer' to sit on, it's difficult to figure out why!

I think I will try and get these sorted as my girlfriend would probably like to use the Venture - they'd make a nice touring pair!


----------



## tyred (2 Apr 2013)

I would definitely save those. Nothing wrong with the derailleur either.

18-23 is Raleigh's "house" steel. Nothing wrong with it at all. It won't be butted or anything like that so won't be overly light but it is perfectly serviceable. My 1950s Raleigh in 18-23 rides very nicely.


----------



## GetAGrip (2 Apr 2013)

I have the womens version of the Raleigh Pioneer Venture that I bought from new in the early nineties. All original except the saddle and probably done no more than 3 or 4 hundred miles tops. I've kept it for sentimental reasons and always thought it was worth more to me than what it was worth in hard cash. As tyred has said, a good commuter/shopper which is what I used it for.


----------



## compo (2 Apr 2013)

tyred said:


> 18-23 is Raleigh's "house" steel. Nothing wrong with it at all. It won't be butted or anything like that so won't be overly light but it is perfectly serviceable. My 1950s Raleigh in 18-23 rides very nicely.


 
Excuse me butting in. Over the years I have had many Raleighs and I never knew about their code for "house steel". We learn something new every day.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (2 Apr 2013)

The different feel between the bikes will be down to the set up. I notice that the Trail has the saddle set nose down/quite a long way back and the handlebars set quite low while the Venture has the saddle very nose up and as far forward as it will go. Adjustments are easy using an Allen key.

Tyred has already mentioned the 18-23 steel. The 4130 chromoly is an aircraft/automotive grade steel-based-alloy which is lighter and stronger than ordinary steel. On this bike I'm pretty sure it's not butted so it won't be as light as it could be. (Your useless information for the day.)

For what it's worth, I agree that they'd make a nice matched pair.


----------



## tyred (2 Apr 2013)

compo said:


> Excuse me butting in. Over the years I have had many Raleighs and I never knew about their code for "house steel". We learn something new every day.


 
You tend to find it in the mid range bikes. Not as nice as Reynolds 531 but better than cheapo gas pipe.
Peugeot did similar with Carbolite 103 and Tube Special Allege Peugeot.


----------



## mrandmrspoves (2 Apr 2013)

I bought a Pioneer for my wife for £15.01 off eBay.....has a Reynolds 501 frame and a somewhat strange Handlebar suspension! Before and after a full restoration......


----------



## bristolbikeguy (2 Apr 2013)

Wow that Lizcycle is really lovely 

I think I may keep a look out for others because for that money it's worth just picking one up. 

Thanks Rickshaw Phil for the tip - I've adjusted the saddle and it's much better now. I think I might get hold of a replacement saddle as well because the Apollo saddle that's on it isn't particularly adjustable. 

Really interesting stuff!!


----------



## mrandmrspoves (2 Apr 2013)

Thanks Bristol Guy - I am fairly competent mechanically - but not particularly skilled, so I hope the photos illustrate what can be achieved. I put new brake and gear cables on the bike (£12) and spent about £12 on paint, £6 for a new chain and that was it - so £45.01 (and I put a new carrier on it that I had in my garage as I couldn't be bothered to clean the rust off the original)
My wife is of course called Liz hence the "Lizycle" - she was very pleased with it!


----------



## mrandmrspoves (2 Apr 2013)

I forgot ....changed the tyres too. Always worth doing with old rubber to avoid deflations (tradition on here not to mention the P word!)


----------



## Si_ (3 Apr 2013)

you may find if the big h has slapped on a new mech the "f stop screw" as know it, hasnt been set correctly for clearance of the rear mech to the block. thus the mech hangs down way too low and the indexing is off. its the tiny little cross head at the back of the mech that isn't either the of the high or low adjustments. It also may be worth checking the leverage ratios between your new mech and old shifters.


----------



## bristolbikeguy (3 Apr 2013)

Si_ said:


> you may find if the big h has slapped on a new mech the "f stop screw" as know it, hasnt been set correctly for clearance of the rear mech to the block. thus the mech hangs down way too low and the indexing is off. its the tiny little cross head at the back of the mech that isn't either the of the high or low adjustments. It also may be worth checking the leverage ratios between your new mech and old shifters.


Thanks for this

I've adjusted the high and low adjusters, and then adjusted the barrel. When I watched a tutorial it said that if the gears are indexed then once you get the barrel adjustment right for the change from the smallest cog to the 2nd smallest, then the rest should be set up fine. It's almost there, but it's still sticking between gears.

It's still much better than Halfords had it (who'd have thought, me a complete noob with 1 youtube video as help!) But it's not quite right. 

Question: if the leverage ratios are different, do I need to replace parts until they're the same?


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (3 Apr 2013)

bristolbikeguy said:


> Thanks for this
> 
> I've adjusted the high and low adjusters, and then adjusted the barrel. When I watched a tutorial it said that if the gears are indexed then once you get the barrel adjustment right for the change from the smallest cog to the 2nd smallest, then the rest should be set up fine. It's almost there, but it's still sticking between gears.


Adjusting the rear I prefer to set the high and low stops, then set up the indexing on the middle gear (7 cogs on the rear? Makes it easy.)



bristolbikeguy said:


> It's still much better than Halfords had it (who'd have thought, me a complete noob with 1 youtube video as help!) But it's not quite right.


  Going in the right direction 



bristolbikeguy said:


> Question: if the leverage ratios are different, do I need to replace parts until they're the same?


This will only apply if you are mixing top end SRAM shifters or derailleurs with Shimano. Shimano use a 2:1 pull ratio SRAM use 1:1 for slicker shifting.

Just to confuse the issue, SRAM's lower end stuff is Shimano compatible.


----------



## bristolbikeguy (4 Apr 2013)

Thanks Phil!

This is all really helpful. This forum is great!


----------

