# Finding it difficult to get my heart rate up



## Edwardoka (30 Jan 2013)

As the title says, I'm finding it difficult to get my heart rate up on the bike and feel like I'm hammering it.

Normally when climbing or sprinting I end up labouring, with my heart pounding, breathing hard and sweat pouring off me and really feeling like my cardiovascular system is fighting hard, but recently, it feels like nothing I do can raise my heart rate or perceived effort, instead, I get burning muscles and slow right down with no fight.

This is a completely new phenomenon to me and I've been cycling for 9 years now.
Ordinarily any time I've gotten lactic buildup has either also involved the symptoms of a big cardio effort, or has been on a long day in the saddle.

To show the extent at which it's affecting me, today I was riding on a flat former railway path with a tailwind and reasonable tarmac, but moving at more than 10mph made the lactic buildup intolerable (I'd normally ride these at about 17mph without much exertion), and climbing hills after the first few miles brought me to a mighty 2-4mph pace, with none of the usual symptoms of cardio effort, just the wretched burning sensation.

Anyone encountered this before or have any ideas why this is happening?

Thanks
Ed


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## Tribanite (30 Jan 2013)

either your lactic build up has increased, so that your cardio isn't being pushed OR your cardio is so good right now, you need a bigger push.
try cycling with added weight, either with a different bike or a rucksack full of stuff. then come back and report.

after 9 years of cycling - i'm guessing your cardio system isn't being pushed enough


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## Rob3rt (30 Jan 2013)

Do us, and yourself most importantly a favour and go to see your GP. Sounds like you are coming down with something to me.


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## Edwardoka (30 Jan 2013)

Thanks for the answers, guys.



Tribanite said:


> either your lactic build up has increased, so that your cardio isn't being pushed OR your cardio is so good right now, you need a bigger push.


I wish my cardio was so good! This phenomenon is a relatively new one after I resolved to get fit in the new year. Despite having been a cyclist for 9 years, I've been quite intermittent with it over the last 2-3 years and have never been able to regain anything like my former fitness levels.
I'm getting the singlespeed serviced and will see if not having smaller gears to fall back on makes a difference.

I've also noticed that I don't get thirsty on rides anymore (probably a combination of the cold weather and because I'm not sweating as much as usual), so I am quite probably becoming dehydrated on rides.




Rob3rt said:


> Do us, and yourself most importantly a favour and go to see your GP. Sounds like you are coming down with something to me.


Good call - will do!

Thanks again
Ed


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## Sittingduck (30 Jan 2013)

+1 for going to the Doc. I certainly wouldn't start going out riding with an increased weight load. Something is up...


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## Crackle (30 Jan 2013)

When I first read it I thought this was suddenly happening after 9 years cycling but your 2nd post paints a different picture which makes it sound like you are comparing yourself to a peak physical condition compared to being unfit now. So at first I was with Rob but now I'm unsure, I think I still am but I'm wandering if this is just a result of lack of fitness? You lose it pretty quickly and intermittent over 2 or 3 years would do that. Is this gradual or sudden?


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## Edwardoka (30 Jan 2013)

Crackle said:


> Is this gradual or sudden?


Very sudden. Even though I haven't been what I'd consider "fit" for a couple of years at least, I've still been able to go out and do sportives and such without this happening. I didn't have it on the first ride of the year (although I did get leg cramps because of the cold and wet) and lactic acid came close to the end of my second (70 mile) ride of the year after I had been battling headwinds and the southern uplands for much of the day.

Today had no such circumstances - tailwind all the way, not particularly strenuous at any point. Just couldn't turn the pedals with any real force without feeling the burn.


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## Crackle (30 Jan 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Very sudden. Even though I haven't been what I'd consider "fit" for a couple of years at least, I've still been able to go out and do sportives and such without this happening. I didn't have it on the first ride of the year (although I did get leg cramps because of the cold and wet) and lactic acid came close to the end of my second (70 mile) ride of the year after I had been battling headwinds and the southern uplands for much of the day.
> 
> Today had no such circumstances - tailwind all the way, not particularly strenuous at any point. Just couldn't turn the pedals with any real force without feeling the burn.


 
Definetly doc's then


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## Ningishzidda (31 Jan 2013)

When I go to my holiday caravan in Cornwall, I DO NOT go running. I get lactic instantly. Before I reach the site gate. On my bike, I can't push as hard as at home because of the same problem.
I have decided it is a change in water mineral content between home and Cornwall. Has your local water authority changed its mineral formula for its tap water?


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## Edwardoka (31 Jan 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> When I go to my holiday caravan in Cornwall, I DO NOT go running. I get lactic instantly. Before I reach the site gate. On my bike, I can't push as hard as at home because of the same problem.
> I have decided it is a change in water mineral content between home and Cornwall. Has your local water authority changed its mineral formula for its tap water?


This calls for Science! I shall try two independent rides, one with bottled water and one with tap water.

(Alternatively, Cornwall is ridiculously hilly? )


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## black'n'yellow (31 Jan 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> When I go to my holiday caravan in Cornwall, I DO NOT go running. I get lactic instantly. Before I reach the site gate. On my bike, I can't push as hard as at home because of the same problem.
> I have decided it is a change in water mineral content between home and Cornwall. Has your local water authority changed its mineral formula for its tap water?


 
Yep - it's obviously the water. Either that, or Edwardoka is a secret agent and he is being secretly poisoned by the FSB. Both are equally plausible, I reckon.

Mind you, the water content might go some way towards explaining Ningishzidda's post, to be fair.


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## Edwardoka (31 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> Edwardoka is a secret agent


LIES!!


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## Arsen Gere (31 Jan 2013)

+1 for the Docs. Any sudden changes are worth investigating. If you are in doubt start googling rapid onset acidosis, respiratory acidosis. It will probably scare you in to going. You can't beat self diagnosis for a good dose of fear.


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## Beebo (31 Jan 2013)

I'd go and see the docs, or speak to @colinj about the consequences of putting it off!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (31 Jan 2013)

To the Docs. No need for google or CC diagnosis.


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## Garz (31 Jan 2013)

Only other thought (agree with the docs advice) is over-training.


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## Edwardoka (31 Jan 2013)

Doctor appointment duly made - thanks everyone! Will let you know how I get on.

Overtraining did enter my mind as a possibility but I would imagine that I've not done nearly enough riding for that to be the case. I used to have a 150 mile weekly commute and didn't generally get the burn then, just heavy legs.

I'm also trying not to google the symptoms, because I'm a terrible hypochondriac...


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## black'n'yellow (1 Feb 2013)

No offence, but it's very unlikely to be 'over training'.


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## Edwardoka (1 Feb 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> No offence, but it's very unlikely to be 'over training'.


None taken - I came to much the same conclusion - it doesn't feel like overtraining has in my previous experience.

Still a more likely cause than the Russian secret service poisoning me though.


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## Upstream (1 Feb 2013)

This is really interesting especially as I had logged in this evening with the intent of creating a very similar thread and seeking advice...
In my case I have always tended to find that my achilles heel was cardio vascular and as a result I tended to work my cardio hard in order to build stamina. Over the past month where I was taking part in an online challenge, I rode more than usual (520 miles at between 10 and 20 miles each day) a mixture of on road and turbo.

What I have been finding for the past two to three weeks is that whilst my cardio seems to be handling the pace quite comfortably, my legs seem to really be feeling it (quite tender thigh muscles) however I seem to have built more "definition" in my legs. I should also say that my overall performance hasn't dropped off - if anything it has increased a little.

Someone suggested that I should perhaps start taking protein shakes as exercising tears the muscles and extra protein promotes the quick rebuilding of muscle. They said that I probably wasn't giving my legs sufficient time to recover and rebuild as I have been exercising most days. I don't really like the idea of taking protein shakes especially as they seem to contain artificial sweeteners etc but if they do have the benefit of helping muscles to recover I'd probably consider it.

Any thoughts..?

Thanks.


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## black'n'yellow (1 Feb 2013)

Just drink milk - plenty of protein in that.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Feb 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> Just drink milk - plenty of protein in that.


This ^


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## Scoosh (1 Feb 2013)

I believe that the best tie to consume your milk/protein shake is within 30 mins of finishing exercise.


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## Garz (1 Feb 2013)

Any update on this Ed?


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## Edwardoka (2 Feb 2013)

Garz said:


> Any update on this Ed?


None yet, doctor appointment is next week. Staying off the bike for a few days in any case to see if that helps.


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## Edwardoka (2 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> What I have been finding for the past two to three weeks is that whilst my cardio seems to be handling the pace quite comfortably, my legs seem to really be feeling it (quite tender thigh muscles)


Muscle fatigue is a normal result of training. If you've upped your mileage or intensity sharply you would expect to feel tired and sore.
You can tell when you have overtrained because your performance levels off and then starts to decrease and the more you train the worse your performance gets. 



Upstream said:


> Someone suggested that I should perhaps start taking protein shakes


Milk / lean meat / fish as other people have pointed out. In any case, protein intake should complement a structured rest phase of your training, not replace it.

Ed


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## 400bhp (2 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> This is really interesting especially as I had logged in this evening with the intent of creating a very similar thread and seeking advice...
> In my case I have always tended to find that my achilles heel was cardio vascular and as a result I tended to work my cardio hard in order to build stamina. Over the past month where I was taking part in an online challenge, I rode more than usual (520 miles at between 10 and 20 miles each day) a mixture of on road and turbo.
> 
> What I have been finding for the past two to three weeks is that whilst my cardio seems to be handling the pace quite comfortably, my legs seem to really be feeling it (quite tender thigh muscles) however I seem to have built more "definition" in my legs. I should also say that my overall performance hasn't dropped off - if anything it has increased a little.
> ...


 
I have a similar problem - my quads get sore without my heart rate getting up to aerobic max (160 ish). For me, I suspect it's probably something to do with:
-overtraining (probably average 150 miles per week riding 6 days)
-Saddle height and general bike setup
-relatively low cadence
-I am just sh1t

Probably the last wins, but in order to try and rule out some I'm going to get a bike fit. Seems sensible for me as I suspect my current bikes will stay with me for a few years yet so the cost of the fit should be spread well.

Never thought of lack of protein and like you I don't like the idea of shakes etc. The bike fit bod I'm going to see is a bit of an all rounder by all accounts so I will have a general chat with him.


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## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> This is really interesting especially as I had logged in this evening with the intent of creating a very similar thread and seeking advice...
> In my case I have always tended to find that my achilles heel was cardio vascular and as a result I tended to work my cardio hard in order to build stamina. Over the past month where I was taking part in an online challenge, I rode more than usual (520 miles at between 10 and 20 miles each day) a mixture of on road and turbo.
> 
> What I have been finding for the past two to three weeks is that whilst my cardio seems to be handling the pace quite comfortably, my legs seem to really be feeling it (quite tender thigh muscles) however I seem to have built more "definition" in my legs. I should also say that my overall performance hasn't dropped off - if anything it has increased a little.
> ...


 
I would say, forget the supplements.

You have just spent a month over reaching by your own admission, it is time to have an easy week. Everyone needs an easy week every every few weeks, even the hardest training athletes work in blocks where for several weeks they train very hard, overloading the body, then they follow with a recovery week where workload is reduced (but not ceased) to allow the dissipation of fatigue, 3 weeks on, 1 week off for example.


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## Arsen Gere (4 Feb 2013)

400bhp said:


> I have a similar problem - my quads get sore without my heart rate getting up to aerobic max (160 ish).
> 
> -relatively low cadence
> 
> ...


 
If your cadence is low your heart does not recognise the demand created from your legs and acidosis takes over making them ache. Basically you have to pump the blood back to your heart as it can't suck blood from your veins. We demonstrate this in a turbo session so people can see the value of cadence. Cadence is king.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> If your cadence is low your heart does not recognise the demand created from your legs and acidosis takes over making them ache. Basically you have to pump the blood back to your heart as it can't suck blood from your veins. We demonstrate this in a turbo session so people can see the value of cadence. Cadence is king.


 
 I've read some absolute rubbish on here - but this really takes the biscuit


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> If your cadence is low your heart does not recognise the demand created from your legs and acidosis takes over making them ache. Basically you have to pump the blood back to your heart as it can't suck blood from your veins. We demonstrate this in a turbo session so people can see the value of cadence. Cadence is king.


Your explanation will be very good reading.


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## fossyant (4 Feb 2013)

Come on B&Y that's not helpful. 

Arsen, a slow cadence can indeed cause your heart to max out before the legs ache - try a 25% hill in a big gear - 60 rpm and over 190bpm.

The OP's situation is more likely overtraining as has been said.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

fossyant said:


> Come on B&Y that's not helpful.


 
how is it 'not helpful' to point out what I regard as total nonsense when I see it..??

And it is categorically NOT over-training. You need to be clear on what you mean by that.


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## Arsen Gere (4 Feb 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> I've read some absolute rubbish on here - but this really takes the biscuit


 
I tried to make this simple for the general readers. But it looks like this needs justifcation for some.

Veins http://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/biology/transport/revise-it/transport-in-mammals
"When the muscles are active in contracting and relaxing, the squeezing on the veins moves blood along but due to the valves, only ever towards the heart."

Heart http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/292/4/R1641.short 
"These results suggest that the exercise-induced circulatory response is mainly under metabolic control and support the idea that the level of muscle activation plays a role in the cardiovascular regulation during cycle exercise in humans. "

Acidosis http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/287/3/R502.short 
"if the rate of lactate production is high enough, the cellular proton buffering capacity can be exceeded, resulting in a decrease in cellular pH."


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> uscle activation plays a role in the cardiovascular regulation during cycle exercise in humans. "
> 
> Acidosis http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/287/3/R502.short
> "if the rate of lactate production is high enough, the cellular proton buffering capacity can be exceeded, resulting in a decrease in cellular pH."


"The development of acidosis *during intense exercise* _has traditionally been explained by the increased production of lactic acid_, causing the release of a proton and the formation of the acid salt sodium lactate. On the basis of this explanation, if the rate of lactate production is high enough, the cellular proton buffering capacity can be exceeded, resulting in a decrease in cellular pH. These biochemical events have been termed lactic acidosis. The lactic acidosis of exercise has been a classic explanation of the biochemistry of acidosis for more than 80 years. This* belief* has led to the interpretation that lactate production causes acidosis and, in turn, that increased lactate production is one of the several causes of muscle fatigue during intense exercise. This review presents clear evidence that_* there is no biochemical support for lactate production causing acidosis. Lactate production retards, not causes, acidosis."*_



Retard said:


> *1. * A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay.


 

So your low cadence theory then.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> I tried to make this simple for the general readers. But it looks like this needs justifcation for some.
> 
> Veins http://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/biology/transport/revise-it/transport-in-mammals
> "When the muscles are active in contracting and relaxing, the squeezing on the veins moves blood along but due to the valves, only ever towards the heart."
> ...


 
Yeah, that clears it up (NOT). I was hoping for an explanation, not a series of desperately-contrived links. Let's look at what you said.



Arsen Gere said:


> If your cadence is low your heart does not recognise the demand created from your legs and acidosis takes over making them ache.


 
Cadence bears no relation to effort. Your heart responds to differences in effort, not cadence.



Arsen Gere said:


> *We* demonstrate this in a turbo session so people can see the value of cadence. Cadence is king.


 
Cadence is not king. Cadence is largely irrelevant and is effectively a personal physiological choice, based on your fitness level and whatever you are trying to achieve while you are on the bike. Inicidentally - when you say 'we' - what do you mean?


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## Arsen Gere (4 Feb 2013)

fossyant said:


> Come on B&Y that's not helpful.
> 
> Arsen, a slow cadence can indeed cause your heart to max out before the legs ache - try a 25% hill in a big gear - 60 rpm and over 190bpm.
> 
> The OP's situation is more likely overtraining as has been said.


 
True but to max out your HR at that cadence you need to use your upper body, not just your legs. I use a turbo to demonstrate this so it is a different protocol but with legs alone all club level athletes I've done this test with cannot reach max hr at 70 rpm. In fact I can get them to max their HR at 120 rpm with much lower (80%) loads than at say 95 rpm.


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## carolonabike (4 Feb 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> Yeah, that clears it up (NOT). I was hoping for an explanation, not a series of desperately-contrived links. Let's look at what you said.


 
That is very rude


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## Arsen Gere (4 Feb 2013)

I retract everything I've said, (Spits out dummy).

I'll stick to working with the athletes I coach rather than wasting time on this post.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

carolonabike said:


> That is very rude


 
Not nearly as rude as offering advice on the internet when you have absolutely no flippin clue what you are talking about.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> I'll stick to working with the athletes I coach rather than wasting time on this post.


 
You're a cycle coach? What level?


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## 400bhp (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> If your cadence is low your heart does not recognise the demand created from your legs and acidosis takes over making them ache. Basically you have to pump the blood back to your heart as it can't suck blood from your veins. We demonstrate this in a turbo session so people can see the value of cadence. Cadence is king.


 
I did say relatively low. At a guess, it's probably 70-80 rpm.


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## Arsen Gere (4 Feb 2013)

400bhp said:


> I did say relatively low. At a guess, it's probably 70-80 rpm.


 
IMHO that would restrict the level your heart would work to ( on the flat or a turbo ), If you are in the North East or ever up here I could demonstrate the effect of cadence and/or breathing on heart rate for you.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> IMHO that would restrict the level your heart would work to ( on the flat or a turbo ), If you are in the North East or ever up here I could demonstrate the effect of cadence and/or breathing on heart rate for you.


 
If you are a coach (which you probably aren't, by the sound of it) then you will have heard of something called 'high resistance intervals'. The aim of these intervals is to get the rider's HR well into threshold and above (ie 90% +) while pushing a high resistance/low cadence. Not unusual to see them in a lot of coaching plans for road and TT. According to you though, they don't exist??


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## Garz (4 Feb 2013)

Garz said:


> Only other thought (agree with the docs advice) is over-training.


 


black'n'yellow said:


> No offence, but it's very unlikely to be 'over training'.


 


400bhp said:


> I have a similar problem - my quads get sore without my heart rate getting up to aerobic max (160 ish). For me, I suspect it's probably something to do with:
> -*overtraining* (probably average 150 miles per week riding 6 days)...


 


fossyant said:


> The OP's situation is more likely overtraining as has been said.


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining

IMO, the OP is extremely unlikely to be experiencing a regular, consistent training load _anything like_ close enough to the point where genuine 'over training' could even be considered a possibility.

having 'tired legs' is not the same thing as 'over training'.


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## Edwardoka (4 Feb 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> the OP is extremely unlikely to be experiencing a regular, consistent training load _anything like_ close enough to the point where genuine 'over training' could even be considered a possibility.


Assuming I'm still the OP after this thread was so spectacularly derailed ; it's definitely not overtraining!

As you say, I've not been riding at anything like a high enough intensity or duration for it to be fatigue or related to insufficient recovery - in fact, since the Queen's View climbs on the CC Ecosse ride, I'd argue that I've not been _able_ to ride at intensity.

I'm an experienced enough rider to know that something's not right - it's not caused by the normal exercise/recovery cycle and has nothing to do with my technique or cadence - hence the doctor's appointment to find out what's going on!

Cheers
Ed


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## black'n'yellow (4 Feb 2013)

Definitely the water then - or MI6..  Good luck with the doc.


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## 400bhp (5 Feb 2013)

Yeah, good luck. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on your thread.


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## Upstream (5 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> *Assuming I'm still the OP* after this thread was so spectacularly derailed ; it's definitely not overtraining!
> 
> As you say, I've not been riding at anything like a high enough intensity or duration for it to be fatigue or related to insufficient recovery - in fact, since the Queen's View climbs on the CC Ecosse ride, I'd argue that I've not been _able_ to ride at intensity.
> 
> ...


Sorry about that.


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## Edwardoka (5 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> Sorry about that.


No it's fine 
I didn't expect it to turn into a flamewar though...!


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## Edwardoka (5 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Assuming I'm still the OP


Sorry, that wasn't intended that to sound like criticism, I think there was some confusion as to who was the OP in the later part of the thread and I was trying to clear up who it was who was being addressed latterly.


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## Garz (5 Feb 2013)

Post back with your quacks opinion. In light of the derailment and re-reading your OP it sounds like not enough information for anyone to mildly stab a guess at. When the doc has extracted some additional information and checked you out lets hope it's nothing serious Ed.


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## Edwardoka (6 Feb 2013)

Doctor couldn't find anything wrong with my cardio (HR/BP nominal, no murmur or any noise from my lungs).

I don't think I was very good at communicating the problem - as in, at the start of January I did a 70 miler and climbed Mennock Pass with no problem despite being overweight, but last week I struggled on the flat with a massive tailwind (hell, even climbing the stairs on a bus gives me burny legs, despite having been off the bike for a week)

I do have some other symptoms that made him think "maybe it's thyroid related", so he took a blood test - hopefully I'll get some useful information!

Cheers
Ed


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## rowdin (6 Feb 2013)

It could be thyroid, when mine went tits up, I had heart trouble. I could'nt ride to work without getting off and resting for a bit. Best of all it would stop beating once every 20 seconds, it would only miss one beat in 20 seconds or so but at 3am in the morning, it gets you out of bed quicker then being set on fire Well maybe not on fire, but I was not a happy bunny.


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## Edwardoka (6 Feb 2013)

rowdin said:


> It could be thyroid, when mine went tits up, I had heart trouble. I could'nt ride to work without getting off and resting for a bit. Best of all it would stop beating once every 20 seconds, it would only miss one beat in 20 seconds or so but at 3am in the morning, it gets you out of bed quicker then being set on fire Well maybe not on fire, but I was not a happy bunny.


Yikes - that's scary! Hope you're doing better now though.

The doc asked if I was having chest pains or anything like that, but I haven't. Only thing I can think of is that my RHR has been somewhat higher than usual (85 vs 65) and I've been aware of my heartbeat when first getting up in the morning, but he said it likely wasn't anything to be concerned about at this stage.


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## rowdin (6 Feb 2013)

Fine now thanks, as soon as I started on the medication things went back to normal. I hope it all works out for you Ed.


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## Upstream (7 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Yikes - that's scary! Hope you're doing better now though.
> 
> The doc asked if I was having chest pains or anything like that, but I haven't. Only thing I can think of is that my RHR has been somewhat higher than usual (85 vs 65) and I've been aware of my heartbeat when first getting up in the morning, but he said it likely wasn't anything to be concerned about at this stage.


 
Hi again - I may be way off track here but my understanding is that one of the signs of over training is an increase in resting heart rate. Also - if you're becoming a little anxious about things, this can also cause an increase in heart rate whenever your thinking about it (for example when testing your resting heart rate). I'm curious... Do your thighs feel tender if you squeeze them? Mine did - very tender but I do have a bit of an update on this...

On Saturday (just a few days after completing my January challenge) I had to go out shopping and walked up three flights of stairs. Whilst I wasn't at all tired doing that, my thighs were burning when I approached the top. I had a 30 mile scheduled for the next day so I was a little concerned about how I'd perform. Anyway, I did the ride and although it was a bit windy, the average speed was over 16mph which for me is around 1mph quicker than I usually ride in non - windy conditions.

Following some of the advice within your thread, since then I've taken it easy and just done some light spinning (around 20 miles of which half was on Monday evening and the other half on Tuesday evening). I didn't do anything on Wed evening and the tenderness in the thighs has almost completely gone now. What I plan to do for the remainder of the week is continue with light spin work. I'll then hit the roads again over the weekend and I'll report back but I expect that I may have just been overdoing it in Jan (averaging over 125 miles per week instead of my usual 50 or so).


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## Edwardoka (8 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> Hi again - I may be way off track here but my understanding is that one of the signs of over training is an increase in resting heart rate. Also - if you're becoming a little anxious about things, this can also cause an increase in heart rate whenever your thinking about it (for example when testing your resting heart rate). I'm curious... Do your thighs feel tender if you squeeze them? Mine did - very tender but I do have a bit of an update on this..


Nah, I've been off the bike for 9 days now and still have burning legs as I write this. The reason for the higher RHR is likely to be because I have come down with a cold as well. 

It really doesn't sound like you were overtraining but rather that you were overreaching - particularly if a few days off has helped.

Cheers
Ed


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## Upstream (8 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Nah, I've been off the bike for 9 days now and still have burning legs as I write this. The reason for the higher RHR is likely to be because I have come down with a cold as well.
> 
> It really doesn't sound like you were overtraining but rather that you were overreaching - particularly if a few days off has helped.
> 
> ...


 
I had to look "over reaching" up as I had initially thought that it and "over training" referred to the same thing. Yes - I think you're probably right. In my case I had gone up from riding around 50 miles per week to over 120 and had done that for 4 weeks straight.

Hopefully you'll back back on form in no time at all!


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## Garz (12 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> I do have some other symptoms that made him think "maybe it's thyroid related", so he took a blood test - hopefully I'll get some useful information!
> 
> Cheers
> Ed



When are the results due Ed?


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## Edwardoka (13 Feb 2013)

Garz said:


> When are the results due Ed?


I phoned yesterday to see if they'd received the results yet, nothing in yet :S


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## Edwardoka (15 Feb 2013)

Blood test came back; thyroid function apparently normal!
Back to square one then 

Hopefully going on a CC ride tomorrow so will see how I get on!

Cheers
Ed


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## Andrew_P (15 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Blood test came back; thyroid function apparently normal!
> Back to square one then
> 
> Hopefully going on a CC ride tomorrow so will see how I get on!
> ...


 Ed what is your core temp like? My avg HR has dropped by around 10-20% and peak HR 10% currently I am putting this down to weather conditions and not getting my core temp up high enough. 

I know for a fact my core body temps are much lower than last year as I am suffering with cold hands which I never did do last year and I am not steaming @ Traffic lights either. This I have put down to being much fitter than this time last year.

I scanned the thread did you ever post comparative HR from a ride?


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## Edwardoka (15 Feb 2013)

LOCO said:


> Ed what is your core temp like? My avg HR has dropped by around 10-20% and peak HR 10% currently I am putting this down to weather conditions and not getting my core temp up high enough.
> 
> I know for a fact my core body temps are much lower than last year as I am suffering with cold hands which I never did do last year and I am not steaming @ Traffic lights either. This I have put down to being much fitter than this time last year.
> 
> I scanned the thread did you ever post comparative HR from a ride?


 
Ordinarily on a climb I will overheat, even when it's cold conditions, to the point where I'm steaming like a train if the weather allows for it.

I wasn't cold at any point on the ride in question - was well insulated and had a tailwind so the windchill factor was basically non-existent, but notably I didn't overheat at any point either.

On an earlier ride where I had the problem I had been fighting a headwind for half the day, didn't really get the problem until I'd been out for a few hours, and put it down to simple fatigue and lack of fitness. Once the last of the climbing was out of the way I was able to spin fast enough to get rid of the acid build up, and flew home with a tailwind and a long downhill.

I don't have a HRM so can't do a comparison with any accuracy (I'm getting a Garmin Edge next payday to keep an eye on my HR) - but it's like my body is just going "No, you're not doing that" and slams the lactic brakes on almost immediately rather than it being a result of strenuous exertion.

Haven't been on the bike since then, still have a feeling of "heaviness" in my legs right now. Tomorrow's ride will be interesting!
Ed


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## 400bhp (15 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Blood test came back; thyroid function apparently normal!
> Back to square one then
> 
> Hopefully going on a CC ride tomorrow so will see how I get on!
> ...


 
Well, that's good news really. My father in law had an overactive thyroid and that was the beginning of the end I think for him.


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## Upstream (19 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Blood test came back; thyroid function apparently normal!
> Back to square one then
> 
> Hopefully going on a CC ride tomorrow so will see how I get on!
> ...


 
How did the CC ride go..?


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## Edwardoka (19 Feb 2013)

Upstream said:


> How did the CC ride go..?


Thanks for asking!

Couldn't make it in the end, unfortunately. Went out on Sunday with my partner but we were riding at pootle pace, so I didn't get a chance to test my stamina. If the weather's good tomorrow I'm going to try to ride to work at high intensity (either a 25 mile hilly route or a much flatter 35 mile route) and see how I get on.

How are you doing? Did resting sort out your fatigue?
Ed


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## Upstream (19 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Thanks for asking!
> 
> Couldn't make it in the end, unfortunately. Went out on Sunday with my partner but we were riding at pootle pace, so I didn't get a chance to test my stamina. If the weather's good tomorrow I'm going to try to ride to work at high intensity (either a 25 mile hilly route or a much flatter 35 mile route) and see how I get on.
> 
> ...


 
Yes - It seems to have. Basically what I did was quite a few rides on the spin bike with low resistance and high cadence. I also cut down from around 125 miles each week (quite a stretch for me), back to about 50. At the moment my legs feel stronger now and I can stay in the saddle longer before having to stand up (which is what makes me feel that my legs probably just needed a bit of time to let the muscles mend a bit).

Went out on a 35 mile ride with some friends on Sunday, quite rolling terrain with some climbs and overall I was very pleased with how I performed (even managed to put in a sneaky attack at the end). I don't recall the legs burning much at all really but the cardio was working hard a few times ;-)

I think that the lesson for me here is to learn how to read my own body a little better and not to let my stubborn nature cause me to push harder than I can physically handle - All good experience though. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised when you go out on your next ride though.

ps... I should also add that I have been trying to eat more protein - rich foods (eggs, chicken breast etc).


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## Edwardoka (20 Feb 2013)

Rode the hilly 25 miler this morning at a rolling average of 14.7mph. Maybe 1-2mph slower than I would have liked but not so much as to be cause for alarm.

Glad to say that on the long steady climb up onto the moor I was sweaty and breathing hard, my heart rate was definitely elevated and the feeling of burning was not the major factor restricting my pace. Felt a bit of lactic on the sharp climbs towards the end but not much more than usual.

Got 3 PBs on strava segments as well, so maybe it was a virus or something. Legs feel heavy but the numbers don't lie!

The lesson I'm taking from this is that "Hypochondria + Internet = HELP I THINK I'M DYING!"


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## Upstream (20 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Rode the hilly 25 miler this morning at a rolling average of 14.7mph. Maybe 1-2mph slower than I would have liked but not so much as to be cause for alarm.
> 
> Glad to say that on the long steady climb up onto the moor I was sweaty and breathing hard, my heart rate was definitely elevated and the feeling of burning was not the major factor restricting my pace. Felt a bit of lactic on the sharp climbs towards the end but not much more than usual.
> 
> ...


 
Nice work - and three personal best's into the bargain! Can't argue with performance like that ;-)


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## Garz (20 Feb 2013)

If you do get the Garmin post back with some heart rates.


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## Crackle (20 Feb 2013)

Edwardoka said:


> Rode the hilly 25 miler this morning at a rolling average of 14.7mph. Maybe 1-2mph slower than I would have liked but not so much as to be cause for alarm.
> 
> Glad to say that on the long steady climb up onto the moor I was sweaty and breathing hard, my heart rate was definitely elevated and the feeling of burning was not the major factor restricting my pace. Felt a bit of lactic on the sharp climbs towards the end but not much more than usual.
> 
> ...


 
Sounding more and more likely. Don't push it in the meantime then. Let your body recover.


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## Licramite (26 Feb 2013)

well I just downloaded a heart rate chart calculating your max safe heartrate and cycling stages for your heart rate.
after last nights bash on my turbo , pushing myself to my limit, I got to stage 2 ! I was doing (very roughly) a rate of 115 , 100 is relaxed to good warm up. - I'm supposed to be able to go upto 160 , I think I would die.

I thought the fitter you are the slower your heart goes in exercise so I,m really really fit or something is wrong.


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## User6179 (26 Feb 2013)

Licramite said:


> well I just downloaded a heart rate chart calculating your max safe heartrate and cycling stages for your heart rate.
> after last nights bash on my turbo , pushing myself to my limit, I got to stage 2 ! I was doing (very roughly) a rate of 115 , 100 is relaxed to good warm up. - I'm supposed to be able to go upto 160 , I think I would die.
> 
> I thought the fitter you are the slower your heart goes in exercise so I,m really really fit or something is wrong.


 
Think the fitter you are the lower your resting heart rate is , everybodys maximum heart rate will be different so i wouldnt bother with charts.


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## Licramite (26 Feb 2013)

Age in years ​57
Sex: ​Male

Maximum heart rate (MHR) ​168
*Zone*​*Range BPM*​*Purpose*
Recovery ​Short rides (non-training) for recovery 100
*Zone 1*​100 - 109 60-65%​Development of economy and efficiency with very high volume, low stress work. Very long sessions improve the combustion and storage of fats. Combine with Zone 2 for practical unstructured low stress rides.
* Zone 2 109 - 126 *65-75%
Development of economy and efficiency with high volume, moderate stress work. An important intensity for establishing a firm base for all riders. Combine with Zone 1 for practical unstructured low stress rides
*Zone 3*​1126 - 137 75-82% ​Development of aerobic capacity and endurance with moderate volume work at a controlled intensity. Should be done alone or in a small group to stay in zone. Possible (but boring) on a turbo trainer for up to one hour in bad weather. 'Modules' can be incorporated into Zone 1 or 2 rides to increase intensity whilst maintaining volume.
*Zone 4*​137 -149 82-89% ​Typical 'mean' intensity of most road races. Useful for tapering and as preparation, to simulate race pace, rather than as training. Sessions should be ended when the effort starts to tell.
*Zone 5*​147 - 159 89-94% ​Raising of anaerobic threshold, improvement of lactate clearance and adaptation to race speed. Should be done alone and:- 
(1) as a specific road or 'turbo' session or 
(2) for controlled periods within a shortened Zone 1 or 2 session or 
(3) in a 10 or 25 mile time trial. 
*Zone 6*​159 - 168 94-100% ​High intensity interval training to increase maximum power and improve lactate production or clearance. Probably best done on hills or a 'turbo' trainer. 
NOTE 1. Should be done only when completely recovered from previous work. 
NOTE 2. Heart rates are not the best guide for this type of training. Intensity should be such that the effort can just be held to the end of the interval. Ride on feel and use heart rate for feedback. 
this was my read out - didn't feel low stress to me !
of course you have to factor in how accurate - or inaccurate - your heart rate monitor is.
I don't have amasive ammount of faith in mine, I only use it for getting a level to work to, I can only hope its horrible out. - or I'm depressingly rubbish (which I fear may be a truer reading)


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## Upstream (26 Feb 2013)

Licramite said:


> Age in years ​57
> Sex: ​Male
> 
> Maximum heart rate (MHR) ​168
> ...


 
I wouldn't be too worried if I were you - The HR monitor on my Spin Bike (the type you hold onto with your hands) is way off - It rarely shows a reading above about 115 maximum. Whilst using my HR monitor that uses a chest strap, I can get to above what the 100% for my age and gender is (not for long though). If you're using a battery powered device I'd first try changing the batteries. I'd also try connecting it up and let it read while your just resting for a minute. At the same time, take the reading manually from your wrist or either side of your neck to see if it is way off while measuring your resting rate.


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## Licramite (27 Feb 2013)

A good point, checked my turbo rest heart rate (64) with my timed rest rate (70) so its out by about 10th 
(.09) that puts me in zone 3 which I feel is probably right.
a real difference since I put the aerobars on the turbo.
when I had a polar chest monitor I regulary hit its maximum heart rate warning. so much so that I gave up using it.


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## Rob3rt (28 Feb 2013)

Licramite said:


> A good point, checked my turbo rest heart rate (64) with my timed rest rate (70) so its out by about 10th
> (.09) that puts me in zone 3 which I feel is probably right.
> *a real difference since I put the aerobars on the turbo.*
> when I had a polar chest monitor I regulary hit its maximum heart rate warning. so much so that I gave up using it.


 
???


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## Licramite (28 Feb 2013)

They completely changed my riding position, my hips are forward of the pedals and I can really spin full throttle in that position - trouble is it make's every work out a real workout. its hard not to go like the clappers !


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