# Took bike in for service ...first pedal stroke wrote off bike



## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Usually do all my own mechanics but dont bother with internal cables . So ...I had a shifter bust on me and took my bike in to get it replaced as well as a new chain and general tune up . I've known the manager for 25 years and hes always been rubbish at mechanics and I usually spend hour or so redoing my gears etc after taking it in . Anyway this time on the first pedal stroke after it was serviced(and new chain) the chain snapped and ripped out my front derailleur and destroyed my frame . I'm fuming . The chain is obviously way to long (like it's just been put on and not been sized ) and the quick link has been ripped In half . Do i have any rights like if it was a car ? Where and how do i take this up avoiding prison? Many thanks


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## MichaelW2 (8 Feb 2021)

Document everthing with photos.
Contact local trading standards

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/


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## DRM (8 Feb 2021)

So you took it somewhere you know to be not able to do repairs properly, you need to find another LBS, or DIY it, you have to rectify their work yourself after previous visits , yet you still go back, why?
What did they say about their shoddy workmanship when you went straight back with it, was the quick link broken, or not correctly joined?


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> Document everthing with photos.
> Contact local trading standards
> 
> https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/


Ty mate


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## Specialeyes (8 Feb 2021)

Document everything with photos.
Contact the shop first - you've known them 25 years but they do have a responsibility of care under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

DRM said:


> So you took it somewhere you know to be not able to do repairs properly, you need to find another LBS, or DIY it, you have to rectify their work yourself after previous visits , yet you still go back, why?


Because I can not do / willing to spend my time doing internal cables and my bike is a giant and they are giant retailers and my friend who is a mechanic for specialized says they know the internals better


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## Randomnerd (8 Feb 2021)

That’s quite an intro to the forum.
DIY next time
Small claims court if he won’t remedy. Didn’t you wheel it back in and give him a chance to respond?


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Specialeyes said:


> Document everything with photos.
> Contact the shop first - you've known them 25 years but they do have a responsibility of care under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.


👍


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> That’s quite an intro to the forum.
> DIY next time
> Small claims court if he won’t remedy. Didn’t you wheel it back in and give him a chance to respond?


I know and ty guys for being helpful as I hate guys like me who just join for help in first post ! 
I took home in car and did notice saggy chain but always stick bike on turbo before going outside to check and I did this last night . Chain went and I just swore, ordered new chain and put away . Was only this aft ( after bike shops closed ) did i notice damage .of course I'm going to ask for his response first , I just wondered about my legal rights. I'm still in shock to be honest as my other bike got wrote off by a car that due to covid I'm still waiting for the compensation . Many thanks for help


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## DRM (8 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> Because I can not do / willing to spend my time doing internal cables and my bike is a giant and they are giant retailers and my friend who is a mechanic for specialized says they know the internals better


Internal cables are all the same, frame brand is irrelevant, fit new inners, then pull outers off, slide new outers over the new inners, job done, it’s like a Vauxhall mechanic saying he hasn’t a clue how a Ford works


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## mustang1 (8 Feb 2021)

This thread is gonna be like the twilight zone.


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## BurningLegs (8 Feb 2021)

Wish I had your power to rip a mech off a frame, split a quick link, and ruin a frame in a single pedal stroke from a standing start!


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

BurningLegs said:


> Wish I had your power to rip a mech off a frame, split a quick link, and ruin a frame in a single pedal stroke from a standing start!


I am a beast my man 😉


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## biggs682 (8 Feb 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> That’s quite an intro to the forum.
> DIY next time
> Small claims court if he won’t remedy. Didn’t you wheel it back in and give him a chance to respond?



I think I woulyhave parked it in his personal bike rack


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

biggs682 said:


> I think I woulyhave parked it in his personal bike rack


Haha getting close to it !


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## Smokin Joe (8 Feb 2021)

BurningLegs said:


> Wish I had your power to rip a mech off a frame, split a quick link, and ruin a frame in a single pedal stroke from a standing start!


I must say I'm rather sceptical about this. 

For one I would be astonished to learn that a bike shop owner of at least 25 years standing would fit a chain that was so long it flopped of on the first pedal stroke, let alone how too long a chain would cause it to snap. And why on earth would anyone take a bike for a service to a shop where he knew the mechanic was rubbish and he'd have sort it all out himself when he got home?

I'd be happy to be proved wrong with a photograph and the name of the shop, but until then...


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## Darius_Jedburgh (8 Feb 2021)

mustang1 said:


> This thread is gonna be like the twilight zone.


Yup. Ignore button looms.


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

BurningLegs said:


> Wish I had your power to rip a mech off a frame, split a quick link, and ruin a frame in a single pedal stroke from a standing start!


I'm a beast my man 🤷‍♀️


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## Randomnerd (8 Feb 2021)

He is trying, though. Gotta give points for trying!


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> He is trying, though. Gotta give points for trying!





Randomnerd said:


> He is trying, though. Gotta give points for trying!


Haha you guys quit bike radar, not cool enough for ww so come on here trying to be big men . I asked for help , that's all . What's the problem ? People saying I'm sceptical of that ...tell me what I've done wrong mechanically rather than saying you dont beleive it .


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

And I do apologise but I've literally just had my last road bike destroyed with at least a years wait till another so ...yeah I'm pissed off and angry at cocky comments when all I've done is asked for help and advice . Ty bike community, were all brothers and sisters yeah ? 👍


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## DRM (8 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> Haha you guys quit bike radar, not cool enough for ww so come on here trying to be big men . I asked for help , that's all . What's the problem ? People saying I'm sceptical of that ...tell me what I've done wrong mechanically rather than saying you dont beleive it .


You took your bike to an inept mechanic, several times, then you have to finish their work off when you get it back, and keep going back for more!  The mind boggles


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## antnee (8 Feb 2021)

I find this a strange tale Ok I might get ripped off once but I'd never go back I might add that being of a mechanical bent I would do it my self, if not sure of procedure I'd YouTube it and have a go also go back and speak to the bloke and at least get your money back!


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## vickster (8 Feb 2021)

Take it up with the shop


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

DRM said:


> You took your bike to an inept mechanic, several times, then you have to finish their work off when you get it back, and keep going back for more!  The mind boggles


Yes , but however retarded I am I asked the lovely community on cc what my legal rights are and where I stand . I've had 3 helpful answers 
.... Nice community 👍


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## HMS_Dave (8 Feb 2021)

I say this to everyone, hell its in my signature. Heat, hammer and then bin... it seems the shop knows exactly what it is doing...


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

antnee said:


> I find this a strange tale Ok I might get ripped off once but I'd never go back I might add that being of a mechanical bent I would do it my self, if not sure of procedure I'd YouTube it and have a go also go back and speak to the bloke and at least get your money back!


It's more of I'm a precision engineer by trade so if it's not perfect as can be I'm not happy . Plus I love the tools so I love tinkering . Internal cables...I've only got two days off and a family and would sooner pay somone to do that and perfect the rest as much as I can


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> I say this to everyone, hell its in my signature. Heat, hammer and then bin... it seems the shop knows exactly what it is doing...


Agree 😂


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## Bianchi boy (8 Feb 2021)

Welcome to the forum Barry i must admit i would be pretty P`ed off too if it was me, some good advice on here in general as has been said document all the damage and maybe small claims court but initially i would go back to shop maybe they have some type of public liability insurance Hope you get it sorted.


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## Randomnerd (8 Feb 2021)

You sounded like you were about to burst in your intro. And maybe a few folks thought it was a wind up when you gotta have pretty big thighs to rip a mech out with one pedal stroke.
Maybe take a breath and relax.
Youve shot yourself in the foot saying you’ve taken it to a bad mechanic!
Go back. Ask for it sorted. Small claims if he won’t. Or check your household insurance maybe? 
Sorry, but a little poke about with a bike after it’s been in is a wise move, before you get too far from their door. Or before you leave the shop, better still.


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Bianchi boy said:


> Welcome to the forum Barry i must admit i would be pretty P`ed off too if it was me, some good advice on here in general as has been said document all the damage and maybe small claims court but initially i would go back to shop maybe they have some type of public liability insurance Hope you get it sorted.


Ty👍


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## Barry danger (8 Feb 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> You sounded like you were about to burst in your intro. And maybe a few folks thought it was a wind up when you gotta have pretty big thighs to rip a mech out with one pedal stroke.
> Maybe take a breath and relax.
> Youve shot yourself in the foot saying you’ve taken it to a bad mechanic!
> Go back. Ask for it sorted. Small claims if he won’t. Or check your household insurance maybe?
> Sorry, but a little poke about with a bike after it’s been in is a wise move, before you get too far from their door. Or before you leave the shop, better still.


I'm not about to burst I'm farking bursting pal ! Sorry but I only wanted to know my legal standing so when guys are claiming it's a lie etc yeah it's annoying . Had pics of my thighs and power profile all ready just to ask for legal advice on a forum I thought was traditionally commuters and thus id get better advice . Next time I'll post ww with quote from my doctor saying you've got abnormally big thighs sir before I ask anything


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## Brandane (8 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> Ty bike community, were all brothers and sisters yeah ?


No. HTH..


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## Chislenko (8 Feb 2021)

Sorry to ask this but not being down with all the latest speak but what does ty mean.
Obviously I know it means house in Welsh but am a bit bemused in its use here.


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## vickster (8 Feb 2021)

Chislenko said:


> Sorry to ask this but not being down with all the latest speak but what does ty mean.
> Obviously I know it means house in Welsh but am a bit bemused in its use here.


Thank you


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## dan_bo (8 Feb 2021)

Let's have a look at this damage then


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Feb 2021)

Was the mech not bolted on properly? A few photos would help.


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## Spiderweb (8 Feb 2021)

Welcome to Cyclechat Barry, I would be gutted too if this had happened to me.

First call would be to take it back to the shop/mechanic, explain what has happened and ask what they are prepared to do to resolve the situation.

If you have no joy then speak to trading standards, maybe get clued up from Citizens Advise Bureau with a view to taking the bike shop to court.

Some pics of your bike would be good to see.

Good luck.


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## nickyboy (8 Feb 2021)

Try not to take it to heart and look for the humour in the situation would be my advice.

In summary, try to Chuckle, Barry


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## kynikos (8 Feb 2021)

I believe you have a potential claim for damages for breach of warranty. There's a link to the legislation in this thread which might help.
Sadly the OP in that thread, one Barry danger, doesn't reveal the outcome though


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## Specialeyes (8 Feb 2021)

nickyboy said:


> In summary, try to Chuckle, Barry


Seems fairly straightforward to me. To you?


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Feb 2021)

The silly season has started early this year.....


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## Chislenko (9 Feb 2021)

vickster said:


> Thank you



Thank you.


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> ...... on the first pedal stroke after it was serviced(and new chain) the chain snapped and ripped out my front derailleur and destroyed my frame . I'm fuming .



At a guess, I'd say the quick link wasn't engaged properly on both sides. The fact that the chain wasn't wasn't even sized points to a bit of a rush job.

When I fit a new chain (three in the last year), I run my eyes over every link looking for obvious defects. I've never yet found any, but you never know. Also, I take it steady for the first mile or so on a new chain (easy gears, no uphill stuff). 

I'm sure the vast majority of bike mechanics are diligent but there are bound to be some who are having an off day who maybe, are not as thorough as they should be.

Personally, I'd rather do all of the mechanics myself. I might take ten times longer than a shop mechanic to do the same job, but I check and check again because it's me who's going to be risking his his own life by riding the thing afterwards. There is so much good information on the web that bike repair is no longer the mystery that it was 20 or so years ago. Once you've done a particular job once, the second time is easy.

As for the liability issue, he is running a business trading a service for money and his service fell short. Your only problem is going to be proving that his actions actually led to the chain failure.

Good luck.


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## steveindenmark (9 Feb 2021)

I still cannot believe you took it to a rubbish mechanic who you have know has been rubbish for 25 years.

Why would somebody do that?


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> I still cannot believe you took it to a rubbish mechanic who you have know has been rubbish for 25 years.
> 
> Why would somebody do that?


Especially when changing out a quicklink chain is amongst the easiest of DIY jobs you can do on a bike.


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> I'm a precision engineer by trade so if it's not perfect as can be I'm not happy .


I've just had a read through of this thread....

So you took it to a mechanic who you know to be rubbish and got him to do it instead?

And even though you could see the chain was badly fitted before you used it, you went full pelt straight away and broke the chain?

This ripped out the front mech, but you only noticed that the frame was wrecked many hours later??

What kind of precision engineering do you do?


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## Vantage (9 Feb 2021)

Not to be a dick, but a bike has no built in safety devices to protect its pilot in an accident. If it isn't looked after/serviced competently, if anything goes wrong the results can be dire. 
In my late teens I asked the bike shop owner for an outer gear cable. He handed me an outer brake cable. He asked me what the difference was when I pointed out his error. I never went back. 
There's no room for cack handedness when it comes to your bike. 
I'm guessing your bike was carbon fibre?


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## DRM (9 Feb 2021)

Barry danger said:


> Yes , but however retarded I am I asked the lovely community on cc what my legal rights are and where I stand . I've had 3 helpful answers the rest of you guys should be on reddit gatekeepers. Pure toxic horrible people. A fellow cyclist asks for help and your only help is to chuck a pile of shoot on him . Nice community 👍


So you say you placed it on the turbo to try it out, my first action would have been to look at the chain if I thought it looked slack, turn the cranks slowly by hand to check for it skipping about then go through the gears before pedalling it, looking to make sure that the rear derailleur lay correctly at both extremes of it's travel and there were no stiff links, &, the quick link is joined correctly, any faults & I'd have been straight back, but I wouldn't have been back after the very first cock up, 25 years ago, if they're so bad I find it hard to believe they're still trading, but they will have public liability insurance, so court it is, because he'll deny everything and you put it on the turbo and must have given it some beans to rip the front mech off, past experience should have told you to check, check and check again before riding it


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## PaulSB (9 Feb 2021)

I'm struggling to understand how this amount of damage could be done by the chain snapping? I can just about get my head around damage to the front mech but ripping it off and so writing off the frame?

Is it really possible? Surely this is nothing more than a massive windup?

As for using the same LBS? Asking for trouble. Why bother?


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## Eric Olthwaite (9 Feb 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I'm struggling to understand how this amount of damage could be done by the chain snapping? I can just about get my head around damage to the front mech but ripping it off and so writing off the frame?



I would have thought the chain snapping would have resulted in the loose end of the chain flying very quickly through the chain guide of the front mech without any damage?


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## Blue Hills (9 Feb 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I'm struggling to understand how this amount of damage could be done by the chain snapping? I can just about get my head around damage to the front mech but ripping it off and so writing off the frame?
> 
> Is it really possible? Surely this is nothing more than a massive windup?
> 
> As for using the same LBS? Asking for trouble. Why bother?


I share your puzzlement.
And maybe my early morning coffee blast is getting to me, but something about this case history sounds oddly familiar.
I think the OP needs to show us some pics (already asked for a few times I think) before further advice.


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## PaulSB (9 Feb 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> I would have thought the chain snapping would have resulted in the loose end of the chain flying very quickly through the chain guide of the front mech without any damage?


Exactly. I've had two chains snap while riding and both simply fell off!! It's an interesting WTF moment when one's legs suddenly spin crazily.

One pedal stroke on a stationary bike. From the description this can have been no more than a full revolution of the chain ring.

The OP is on a massive windup.


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## oldworld (9 Feb 2021)

Pictures are worth a thousand words, let's see the damage and maybe people here will take you seriously and offer advice.


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## Brandane (9 Feb 2021)

PaulSB said:


> The OP is on a massive windup


Exactly, so why are some responses so indulging of the obvious?


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## SheilaH (9 Feb 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I'm struggling to understand how this amount of damage could be done by the chain snapping? I can just about get my head around damage to the front mech but ripping it off and so writing off the frame?
> 
> Is it really possible? Surely this is nothing more than a massive windup?



Might be a wind-up, might be a freak accident. Snapping chains breaking a front derailleur happen. It the OP had the bike in a high gear on the turbo and stood on it to get it going I could envisage this. With regards to ripping bolts out of carbon, again, it is possible, especially if there is internal corrosion.

I'm not going to accuse the OP of posting in bad faith. If he is on a wind up, fine. Would seem a strange thing to do but ultimately harmless. People getting their knickers in a twist over it is just as weird.


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## Lookrider (9 Feb 2021)

The OP has got the advice that he should follow about legal and insurance and trading standards duty if care etc 
My advise for him would now be 
Do nit get involved sending photos etc
On here as you will feel if your on trial ....does not matter why he went to shop after its history or why he never checked checked etc ...he paid some one so should he check check check 
Do you check gas fitter work in boiler 
You have your legal advice links etc use them ...and drop out this thread as any further posts regarding a photo may not be as helpful as you may think 
Good luck with your future


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## T4tomo (9 Feb 2021)

PaulSB said:


> The OP is on a massive windup.



Agreed. 

If (s)he was any good (s)he'd have taken a hammer to front mech and frame so they'd have some photo's to back up the fanciful allegations.


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## Brads (9 Feb 2021)

So one pedal stroke, your chain snapped and ripped of the mech and destroyed the frame, but you never noticed till later on.

Aye right. So what really happened ?


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## Randomnerd (9 Feb 2021)

Poor Mr. Danger.
Two broken bikes and a crowd of cyclists guffawing as they roll past (guilty as charged). 
That pedal stroke though! Almost worth the misery, just to see his foot smash through the carpet, the splintering floorboards, the downstairs’ flat’s ceiling and dangle all muscular and powerful in a haze of plaster dust


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## antnee (9 Feb 2021)

Ok you only have two days off I can understand you want a good deal of that with family as did I, though a good part of my working life was spent away at weekends too. But please go back to the shop that you have used for the last few years and state your misgivings to the mechanic who did the work In my humble opinion if its not perfect its no good, plus you have paid so you can have time with your family instead of messing about in the cold doing an intricate job of threading cables though awkward holes.. You do have rights so please take it up with them at the LBS


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## Teamfixed (9 Feb 2021)

Where you stand legally? Trouble is the law is an ass!!! ...............................................


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## bladesman73 (9 Feb 2021)

Once bitten and all that? I tried a local mobile mechanic last year, he hasnt done a very good job. Lesson learned, no 2nd chances when it comes to bikes. That's my advice.


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## Phaeton (9 Feb 2021)

Vantage said:


> In my late teens I asked the bike shop owner for an outer gear cable. He handed me an outer brake cable. He asked me what the difference was when I pointed out his error.


I'd like to know as well please.


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## Blue Hills (9 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> I'd like to know as well please.


The wire strengthening pattern is entirely different - someone will will be along soon with more detail. If you use gear outer for your brakes you may not be long for this world..


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## PaulSB (9 Feb 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> The wire strengthening pattern is entirely different - someone will will be along soon with more detail. If you use gear outer for your brakes you may not be long for this world..


Thanks. Didn't know this.........I have all my work done by my LBS


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## Phaeton (9 Feb 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> The wire strengthening pattern is entirely different - someone will will be along soon with more detail. If you use gear outer for your brakes you may not be long for this world..


I can understand inners being different but not outer, but if you can learn one thing a day you live to be a wise old man.


PaulSB said:


> Thanks. Didn't know this.........I have all my work done by my LBS


Neither did I hence the question


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## Teamfixed (9 Feb 2021)

The big difference is that gear cable is thinner than brake cable.


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## Phaeton (9 Feb 2021)

Teamfixed said:


> The big difference is that gear cable is thinner than brake cable.


Agreed but the statement was about outer, not inner


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## Lookrider (9 Feb 2021)

Phaeton said:


> I can understand inners being different but not outer, but if you can learn one thing a day you live to be a wise old man.
> 
> Neither did I hence the question




And entirely what these chats are for..
Clear precise helpful info 
I knew there were different but never knew why exactly


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## Vantage (9 Feb 2021)

Gear outer has round steel strands running parallel to each other. It prevents the cable compressing. 







Brake outer has a flat strand which coils around and gives a bit of modulation or squishiness to the brakes.
I believe (I may be wrong on this) that outer cables were all the same prior to indexed gears. 
I have seen an outer gear cable that is coiled specifically (often a tight bend) for the run between the derailleur cable clamp and the stop on the chain/seat stay. How the hell that works is beyond me.


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## Dave Davenport (9 Feb 2021)

I've used brake outers for gears a few times and it's worked fine, but I wouldn't do it the other way round.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Feb 2021)

Gear cable outer used for brakes can lead to brake failure without warning. It’s not designed for the compressive forces of braking.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2021)

The incompressible gear outers are, I think, a thing that emerged with indexed gears. I don't recall there being a difference in ye olde friction shift days ISTR I used the same cable housing for everything and didn't die. 

Fussy indexed gears don't want any squish in the cable so the reinforcement runs longitudinally, with friction shifters it's all done by feel anyway. 

But I think the problem is that longitudinally braced gear outers can't necessarily take the force of someone jamming the anchors on full.


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

Lookrider said:


> Do you check gas fitter work in boiler.



No, but if my boiler had just been serviced and I smelled gas, I wouldn't light the cooker.


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## Blue Hills (9 Feb 2021)

Thanks vantage and ming and dogtrousers - i always hesitate to go into tech detail in case I get things a bit wrong. So sheldon here.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
Scroll down to the red folks.


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## Blue Hills (9 Feb 2021)

By the by, even if the OP doesn't return with pics, not a useless thread. Lives saved


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## boydj (9 Feb 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> I would have thought the chain snapping would have resulted in the loose end of the chain flying very quickly through the chain guide of the front mech without any damage?



That's been my experience. Chain suck, on the other hand, can do all sorts of damage, including snapping the chainstay if you don't take the power off right away..


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## boydj (9 Feb 2021)

As far as the OP goes, if he genuinely has a beef with the shop and he paid by credit card, then he can put a claim in on his credit card.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Feb 2021)

Carbon frames are known for fragmenting into thousands of pieces if hit by a chain. Especially when it’s around freezing.


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## Aravis (9 Feb 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> By the by, even if the OP doesn't return with pics, not a useless thread. Lives saved


Indeed, and thank you. Also @Vantage and @Dogtrousers. This distinction is one which had hitherto eluded me . I do go back well before the birth of indexed gears.

It seems from the information given by you learned people that I'm using brake outers for both jobs.


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## biggs682 (9 Feb 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Carbon frames are known for fragmenting into thousands of pieces if hit by a chain. Especially when it’s around freezing.


Or raining


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## PaulSB (9 Feb 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Carbon frames are known for fragmenting into thousands of pieces if hit by a chain. Especially when it’s around freezing.


I think it was indoors on a turbo.


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## SheilaH (9 Feb 2021)

Cold does not affect CF. It is used extensively in satellites, aircraft etc.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Feb 2021)

SheilaH said:


> Cold does not affect CF. It is used extensively in satellites, aircraft etc.


Psstt it's a joke


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## SheilaH (9 Feb 2021)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Psstt it's a joke



Oh doh!


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Carbon frames are known for fragmenting into thousands of pieces if hit by a chain. Especially when it’s around freezing.


That's why they do the TDF in warmer weather then (I often wondered).


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## Lovacott (9 Feb 2021)

SheilaH said:


> Cold does not affect CF. It is used extensively in satellites, aircraft etc.


Didn't you see the film Gravity? Bits of smashed up carbon fibre flying all over the place.


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## I like Skol (9 Feb 2021)

Lovacott said:


> Didn't you see the film Gravity? Bits of smashed up carbon fibre flying all over the place.


You're not supposed to admit to that!


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## Drago (9 Feb 2021)

Temperature affects the nature and behaviour of _all _ materials.


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## Chislenko (10 Feb 2021)

To be fair though Barry Danger is a cracking user name.


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## classic33 (10 Feb 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> I would have thought the chain snapping would have resulted in the loose end of the chain flying very quickly through the chain guide of the front mech without any damage?


It can, once it has parted company with the rear freewheel/block, fly forward ahead of the chainring. You then end up pulling it from the front, over the top of the cage.

Done it once with a 62 chainring, but didn't damage the bike.


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## Blue Hills (10 Feb 2021)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Psstt it's a joke


they've been spending too long in the NACAs yard.


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## steveindenmark (10 Feb 2021)

Drago said:


> Temperature affects the nature and behaviour of _all _ materials.


It certainly does my flesh and bones.

This post has got to be a wind up. Hasn`t it?


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## SheilaH (10 Feb 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> they've been spending too long in the NACAs yard.



Yes, the brain rotting effect of reading your output in there


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## Drago (10 Feb 2021)

Chislenko said:


> To be fair though Barry Danger is a cracking user name.


No one took him seriously as Barry Chuckle.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Feb 2021)

A very similar thing happened to me once. I'd had a rear wheel trued and left the whole bike with them. I picked the bike up and they hadn't tightened the wheel nuts properly (it wasn't that long ago but it was quite an old bike) When I rode off I pulled the rear wheel out of line and jammed it against the chainstay, which was a bit annoying.

OK it didn't write off the entire bike, but it made me tut rather crossly.


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## DaveReading (10 Feb 2021)

OP seems to have disappeared.

I'd like to think he's gone off to take some photos of the damage that he can post on here. But I'm not holding my breath.


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## davidphilips (10 Feb 2021)

Dont know if this threads a wind up, silly joke or if there is some sort of dispute about a bike repair but maybe all will be revealed by the first of April?


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## Juan Kog (10 Feb 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Carbon frames are known for fragmenting into thousands of pieces if hit by a chain. Especially when it’s around freezing.





biggs682 said:


> Or raining


I’m surprised Skipdiver hasn’t been along and given us his thoughts on plastic bike frames.


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## Tribansman (10 Feb 2021)




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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Feb 2021)

davidphilips said:


> Dont know if this threads a wind up, silly joke or if there is some sort of dispute about a bike repair but maybe all will be revealed by the first of April?



I treat these sort of threads as wind ups orchestrated by timewasters with nothing better to do. When you read half of them thoroughly the alleged happening has little real-world credibility. Some forum members, who ought to know better, don't help either by actually bothering to furnish a helpful response. All you are doing is wasting your own time and encouraging these idiots to post more dross. Save the considered sensible responses for those questions posed by genuine riders not timewasting wind-up merchants.


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## Randomnerd (10 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I treat these sort of threads as wind ups orchestrated by timewasters with nothing better to do. When you read half of them thoroughly the alleged happening has little real-world credibility. Some forum members, who ought to know better, don't help either by actually bothering to furnish a helpful response. All you are doing is wasting your own time and encouraging these idiots to post more dross. Save the considered sensible responses for those questions posed by genuine riders not timewasting wind-up merchants.


Cmon. If his first post was “ I found a Raleigh steel bike in a skip, what should I do?” you’d be on to him like a rat up a drainpipe!

Btw, you reckon he pronounces it as in “anger” or “angel”? I reckon they’re all Reg, having a laugh from beyond the grave.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Feb 2021)

One of Barry’s videos


View: https://youtu.be/G9rG90RRndo


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## MontyVeda (10 Feb 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> A very similar thing happened to me once. I'd had a rear wheel trued and left the whole bike with them. I picked the bike up and they hadn't tightened the wheel nuts properly (it wasn't that long ago but it was quite an old bike) When I rode off I pulled the rear wheel out of line and jammed it against the chainstay, which was a bit annoying.
> 
> OK it didn't write off the entire bike, but it made me tut rather crossly.


I'll do most of my own repairs, but fitting a new headset i felt was beyond me. So I took my bike to a shop for a new headset. They gave it back to me with the front brakes set with the blocks right up to the rim leaving no play in the lever, and the back brakes so loose the blocks didn't touch the rim when pulling the lever  The headset seemed OK though


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## Richard Fairhurst (10 Feb 2021)

Chislenko said:


> To be fair though Barry Danger is a cracking user name.


I hadn't realised Barry Island had been rebranded, but it's probably more accurate.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Feb 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> Cmon. If his first post was “ I found a Raleigh steel bike in a skip, what should I do?” you’d be on to him like a rat up a drainpipe!



I'd like to think my inbuilt BS detector is sufficiently well tuned to be able to differentiate the genuine from the dross. When in doubt I tend to look at what else they have posted and for how long. Sometimes you will find the same, or a very similar, enquiry from someone with the same username on the CTC forum - which I sometimes loiter on but do not post as I can't be doing with their OTT moderation policy.


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## keithmac (10 Feb 2021)

Wonder if they charged £30 to fit the cables..


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## DRM (10 Feb 2021)

Bang.... and the chain is gone !


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## Milkfloat (11 Feb 2021)

Maybe I am just naive, but I like to give posters the benefit of the doubt. Certainly if I the same happened to my bike and I reached out to get help and was treated like this, then I would not come back. Maybe, I would even deliberately close pass cyclists for the rest of my life. 

A troll would have nothing to gain if the replies were sympathetic and practical, they ‘win’ by knowing they have wound people up.


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## Blue Hills (11 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Maybe I am just naive, but I like to give posters the benefit of the doubt. Certainly if I the same happened to my bike and I reached out to get help and was treated like this, then I would not come back. Maybe, I would even deliberately close pass cyclists for the rest of my life.
> 
> A troll would have nothing to gain if the replies were sympathetic and practical, they ‘win’ by knowing they have wound people up.


simple enough for the poster to post some pics to help with his dispute with the bike shop though isn't it?


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## Lookrider (11 Feb 2021)

Surely it matters not if the OP was genuine or not with this post or others about his wheels.... people have decided on that about him anyways .....I hope he does nt put photo on as it will mean the phone alerts will bleep by a dozen straight away with posts asking why he did this that other 
He asked for advice and was told go to shop ...inform trading standad and see solicitor....we should all leave it at that and forget about this thread and concentrate on bike advice 
It even has me responding about it ..when I dont want too


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## Milkfloat (11 Feb 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> simple enough for the poster to post some pics to help with his dispute with the bike shop though isn't it?


I was under the impression that new posters could not add photos?


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## Tribansman (11 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Maybe I am just naive, but I like to give posters the benefit of the doubt. Certainly if I the same happened to my bike and I reached out to get help and was treated like this, then I would not come back. Maybe, I would even deliberately close pass cyclists for the rest of my life.
> 
> A troll would have nothing to gain if the replies were sympathetic and practical, they ‘win’ by knowing they have wound people up.



Fair point, but I also think that posters who post to wind up will keep on doing it if indulged. Part of what seems to motivate some recent mischievous posters on here seems to be how long they can keep the pretence going. But agree there's not much point in getting irate and nasty back, maybe just flag as a wind up and ignore.

Not sure what kind of person gets thrills from making fake posts to elicit advice or reactions, but it takes all sorts I suppose.


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## Teamfixed (11 Feb 2021)

I think Mr Danger may be on at least his third bag of popcorn by now


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## Randomnerd (11 Feb 2021)

Tribansman said:


> Part of what seems to motivate some recent mischievous posters on here seems to be how long they can keep the pretence going


Some would say many members have been at this for years


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## Teamfixed (11 Feb 2021)

Or the wrong chain lube was used?


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## Smokin Joe (11 Feb 2021)

That type of troll is common on forums. A complicated and unlikely scenario to see how much traffic it can generate from people falling over themselves to be helpful.

Why do they do it? That's like asking why people send death threats to football referees or to people who go for the lower offer on The Chase (A popular TV quiz show, M'lud). The internet is a perfect tool for those of unsound mind to play in.


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## Ajax Bay (11 Feb 2021)

As @Blue Hills said all that time ago: if a few more people realise that gear cable outers are not the same as brake cable outers, and there are both safety and operational reasons for that, the thread's a 'win'.
As an addition, note that you can now get 'compressionless' brake cables Edit: cable outers which are designed for use with mechanical or hybrid disc brake calipers.


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## classic33 (12 Feb 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> As @Blue Hills said all that time ago: if a few more people realise that gear cable outers are not the same as brake cable outers, and there are both safety and operational reasons for that, the thread's a 'win'.
> *As an addition, note that you can now get 'compressionless' brake cables *which are designed for use with mechanical or hybrid disc brake calipers.


Don't cables stretch any more?


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## the snail (12 Feb 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> I would have thought the chain snapping would have resulted in the loose end of the chain flying very quickly through the chain guide of the front mech without any damage?


Not necessarily, if the end of the chain is bent/twisted, or tangled up, then it can catch in the derailleur. A woman I was riding with had that happen, and her rear derailleur snapped off. So I think a lot of the posts here calling the OP a troll/liar are pretty unfair and quite unpleasant. None of you really knows what happened to his bike, or whether it was the fault of the shop, the rider, or just one of those things.


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## Lovacott (12 Feb 2021)

the snail said:


> Not necessarily, if the end of the chain is bent/twisted, or tangled up, then it can catch in the derailleur. A woman I was riding with had that happen, and her rear derailleur snapped off. So I think a lot of the posts here calling the OP a troll/liar are pretty unfair and quite unpleasant. None of you really knows what happened to his bike, or whether it was the fault of the shop, the rider, or just one of those things.


I don't doubt that a snapped chain could cause damage, but it's the scenario which seems dubious.

A "precision engineer" getting a bike shop mechanic (who he knows to be rubbish) to change his chain, then after collection (and noticing that the chain isn't right), he pops straight onto it and goes pull pelt?

The chain snaps on the first pedal stroke after which he puts the bike away without noticing any damage only to find later that the frame is "wrecked"?

And, because he only noticed the damage just after the bike shop had shut, he thought he'd open an account on this site and start a thread about it?

If my chain snapped and ripped out the front mech, I'd at least have a glance at it before putting the bike away and I'm pretty sure I'd notice a "wrecked" frame. I also wouldn't use any tradesman who I knew from past experience to be "rubbish" (especially if I were a "perfectionist, precision engineer"). And, if that "rubbish mechanic" had just fitted a new chain which I could see was wrong when I collected the bike, I wouldn't jump on it and go hell for leather straight off.

The troll outed himself in the OP.


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## DRM (12 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't cables stretch any more?


It's the outers that are compressionless, that give better braking on a mechanical setup


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2021)

I seem to remember @Shaun saying that the lifeblood of the forum was new threads. So even if they are colourfully embellished versions of minor spats with mechanics in shops, or "how do I remove a pedal" or "what is the best chain lube" or "why I think tubeless tyres are stupid/brilliant" it all helps.

There's always the ignore thread button if they get too irritating.


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## Ajax Bay (12 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't cables stretch any more?


Cables do stretch (and don't compress) - see my edit; apologies.
I appreciate you are just casting a line, there, but you've reminded me of a discussion we had here a few years ago about whether one could safely use a gear cable as a brake cable (in the brake cable outer). I've reached back to rehash that - below.
Let's leave aside the extent to which outers compress (and all do, normal brake ones much more than others).
All materials stretch when a strain is induced therein. A brake/gear cable stretches every time it is operated and returns to its original dimension when the lever is released (removing the tension). They never breach their elastic limit so there is no plastic stretch, ever.
Stainless steel cables do not stretch any more than normal when new. They stretch the same amount every time (the same amount of) tension is applied, throughout their life, from brand new to 'ready for replacement'. The entirely predictable amount of stretch means that, for a gear cable indexing is unaffected (and gear cable tension is much less than brake cable tension in operation).
Can a gear cable *inner* be used as a brake cable?
Does a brake cable stretch a bit when applied? Yes, but so little as to have no functional effect (think about how the brake levers operate the cable and the cable operates the calipers).
And so, being thinner gauge, the gear cable would stretch too, and maybe a tad more, but, again, so little as to have no functional effect.
I decided I'd try to quantify the approximate difference in stretch if one used a gear cable in place of a brake cable, and whether that would affect the effective operation of the brake calipers (rim brake).
1) The length of pull on a brake cable with a STI (brake lever) is about 9mm max (ie from 'resting' position to lever touching the (drop) bar. Proper adjustment means that full strength braking is effected (with my pads and pad/rim gap adjustment) at 5mm (ie with 4mm 'spare'). Operating the rear calipers, would a gear cable stretch >4mm more than a brake cable would?
2) Wire ropes/cables do not possess a Young’s Modulus but an ‘apparent’ Modulus of Elasticity can be used and the various generic steel cable types have working Moduli of Elasticity. So using Hooke's Law:
*Elastic Extension = FL/EA* where F = load applied (N), L = rope length (mm), E = elastic modulus (N/mm2),A = metallic cross section (mm2)
F The 'full' (ie 4 fingers in opposition to the thumb) grip of an adult is in the range 250N-500N. Even from the drop bars (the strongest braking position for the hand (and for other reasons)) the full grip cannot be exerted so, say, a force of 200N can be applied. The mechanical advantage of the levers is 3 (vector distances from axis are 54mm and 18mm) so this implies an applied force of 600N on the cable (ie max cable tension).
L 1300mm is a typical rear cable run for a normal bike (580mm TT c-t-c) and cables under tape on drop bars. Hybrids/MTB cable run will be a little less. A drop bar STI front brake cable run is much shorter and therefore stretch is less (~40%).
E *General Elastic-modulus of the cable construction*
Spiral strand, type 1x7 EM = 126000
A The area of a 1.2mm dia gear cable is 1.1mm2. Brake cable is 1.6mm dia so area = 2.0mm2

3) For 2.0mm2 area (brake) cable that gives an *elastic extension of 3.1mm* for a 600N load
For 1.1mm2 area (gear) cable that gives an *elastic extension of 5.6mm* for a 600N load
This means that the* difference in* elastic extension (*stretch*) between the two types of cable is *2.5mm*.
Conclusion: The STI *levers have a margin (ie spare travel) of 4mm* so using a gear cable, in extremis, would not result in the lever 'bottoming out' on the bars.
Comments
a. And since the main braking effect is using the front brake (which has a much shorter cable run) riders using a gear cable in place of a brake cable in an 'emergency' should maintain an effective braking system.
b. This result may not hold for flat bar brake levers - someone else can do the working, if they're so inclined. And off course long run cables (eg for tandems or recumbents) would result in significantly more stretch with the implicit failure of an effective braking system.
c. I have made assumptions to get this result: I hope they are valid (for the level of accuracy relevant for this).


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## winjim (12 Feb 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Cables do stretch (and don't compress) - see my edit; apologies.
> I appreciate you are just casting a line, there, but you've reminded me of a discussion we had here a few years ago about whether one could safely use a gear cable as a brake cable (in the brake cable outer). I've reached back to rehash that - below.
> Let's leave aside the extent to which outers compress (and all do, normal brake ones much more than others).
> All materials stretch when a strain is induced therein. A brake/gear cable stretches every time it is operated and returns to its original dimension when the lever is released (removing the tension). They never breach their elastic limit so there is no plastic stretch, ever.
> ...


I think your main problem would be bodging the gear cable nipple into the brake lever. Assuming you managed to do it I can imagine it moving around and slipping about quite a lot, especially under heavy braking.


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## Ajax Bay (12 Feb 2021)

Nipple incompatibility. I agree. Use as a get you home option only (and on the back brake). And
@FishFright mentioned in that 2017 thread that he'd seen a nipple pull straight off. I don't know what tension the cable manufacturers test the cable nipples to but I'll bet the brake ones are more secure, by both design and manufacture.


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## DaveReading (12 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't cables stretch any more?



You missed a trick - you should have asked if they stretch any longer.


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## Smokin Joe (12 Feb 2021)

the snail said:


> So I think a lot of the posts here calling the OP a troll/liar are pretty unfair and quite unpleasant. None of you really knows what happened to his bike, or whether it was the fault of the shop, the rider, or just one of those things.



Perhaps we don't like being taken for fools?


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## Lovacott (12 Feb 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> Perhaps we don't like being taken for fools?


There was never a bike in the first place.

When the OP made the original claim, it had a couple of holes and with every question asked of him, he created more holes and then dug them deeper and deeper.

A good example is when asked "Why take it to a rubbish mechanic" he replied that only a Giant dealer would know how to replace Giant internal cables?

Like Giant have something mystical going on inside their frames that is privy only to Giant dealerships?

This thread was started by someone looking to take the piss and he was sussed out very quickly. 

Requests for photo's are more than reasonable and needn't compromise someone's anonymity. He could have easily given his story some credence with a simple cellphone snap of a ripped off front mech.

Instead, he went very quiet.

100% Troll.


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## Scoosh (12 Feb 2021)

MOD NOTE.
The OP hasn't returned for a while and the thread has been useful in giving valuable information about the differences between brake and gear cable outers and inners, so thus is probably a good time to Close it.

Thank you all for your input.


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