# Peter Sagan



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Mar 2013)

We all know the Peter Sagan of today. Hugely exciting to watch and hugely talented. Most of us will know him from his recent few years in the pro tour. There is much more though and i would be interested in peoples thoughts on the young talent, todays Sagan and the possible legend he will become? 
Sagan was junior mountain bike champion in 2008 and recently moved to road racing in 2010, officially for Cannondale. Quick step had tried him out the year before and dropped him. Maybe not the best decision ever. 
Aged 9 he joined Cyklistický spolok Žilina, a local club, and rode both road and mountain bikes. He was known for wearing tennis shoes on his bike and baggy t shirts. 
Even now i think of Sagan as almost the anti road cyclist. The mountain biker at heart who wants to play on the biggest stage there is. He reminds me a little of the sometimes funny comedy film Happy Gilmore. He brings something entirely fresh to pro cycling. Will Sagan become a legend amongst legends in the years to come? 
I for one am a big fan and thought i would post this video below for your viewing pleasure. 

Enjoy.


----------



## BJH (15 Mar 2013)

Certainly has the potential to become a legend and comes with a lot of personality.

I wonder about Milan San Remo after he dismissed his chances based on the hills - I could see him pulling that one off


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Mar 2013)

I have a new policy - NEVER bet against the SAGAN!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Mar 2013)

Cav asked whether he agrees with Cancellara that Sagan's victory celebrations are 'disrespectful'

"Couldn’t give a shoot,” Cavendish grinned. “He can do what he wants. He’s won a bike race, you know, it’s an emotional time. And he’s clearly a once in a generation bike rider, so he can do what he wants. He’s still young.”


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Cav asked whether he agrees with Cancellara that Sagan's victory celebrations are 'disrespectful'
> 
> "Couldn’t give a s***,” Cavendish grinned. “He can do what he wants. He’s won a bike race, you know, it’s an emotional time. And he’s clearly a once in a generation bike rider, so he can do what he wants. He’s still young.”


Cav is another one who is great for cycling. He just doesn't give two sh*ts about opinions and is proper down to earth. How exciting would sprint finishes be without those two?

Looking forward to MSR tomorrow. Weather looks terrible so is a good excuse to veg out and watch the whole thing. Could even consider a beer or two.


----------



## smutchin (17 Mar 2013)

As I've said elsewhere, I see a lot of Sean Kelly in Sagan. In fact, I think he's already won more than Kelly had at the same age...


----------



## Peteaud (17 Mar 2013)

The fact his bike was the best looking machine ever on last years TDF is enough for me.

Stunning rider, great to watch, good luck to him, and if he upsets a few along the way, so be it.


----------



## Hip Priest (17 Mar 2013)

He is a phenomenal talent. 

I find his antics a bit naff though. Wackiness masquerading as personality. As Cav says though, he can do what he wants.


----------



## Peteaud (17 Mar 2013)

Come on be fair, how cool is this


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onamrs8jx2I


----------



## yello (17 Mar 2013)

Robbie McEwen was prone to the odd wheelie too....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (17 Mar 2013)

yello said:


> Robbie McEwen was prone to the odd wheelie too....


I can wheelie bmx and mountain bikes but road bikes?!?!?  Seems impossible to me.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (17 Mar 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Come on be fair, how cool is this
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onamrs8jx2I



Cool? That is sub zero!


----------



## HLaB (17 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I can wheelie bmx and mountain bikes but road bikes?!?!?  Seems impossible to me.


I couldn't do it myself but I quite used to it back in Dunfie I cycle with this bloke


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (17 Mar 2013)

HLaB said:


> I couldn't do it myself but I quite used to it back in Dunfie I cycle with this bloke


I'm going to have to give it a good go. All about the front brake when your up right?


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (17 Mar 2013)

There is no doubting Sagan is good, but I think he comes across as a little arrogant, His celebrations at times most certainly present an exaggerated sense of his own importance and ability.
Some of the ways in which he comes across in interviews reminds me a little of Armstrong (in attitude, self belief, and arrogance... not for one moment suggesting any other similarity before I get accused of anything)


----------



## Kies (17 Mar 2013)

I love the guy - brings youth and flair with him!!! 
I hope he is the next Cav/Wiggo and takes the sport to the next level (clean of drugs)


----------



## montage (18 Mar 2013)

Is arrogance a crime when all you're really doing is expressing the truth?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (18 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> There is no doubting Sagan is good, but I think he comes across as a little arrogant, His celebrations at times most certainly present an exaggerated sense of his own importance and ability.
> Some of the ways in which he comes across in interviews reminds me a little of Armstrong (in attitude, self belief, and arrogance... not for one moment suggesting any other similarity before I get accused of anything)


He possibly does V but i don't think he would be as appealing without his quirky humour. I think he is maybe a little mis-understood. Some see him as disrespectful but i personally see him as slightly cocky yet confident. 
I think it would be a crying shame if he stopped his celebrations and became another robot in the peloton. 
He's a showman. I for one love to watch the show.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Mar 2013)

It's good to have characters like Sagan and others (eg Voekler) to liven things up a bitty, better than a bunch of autobots. He posted a good snap yesterday during the bus break scoffing a big slice of pie, nice one.
edit... pic can be seen here


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (18 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> He possibly does V but i don't think he would be as appealing without his quirky humour. I think he is maybe a little mis-understood. Some see him as disrespectful but i personally see him as slightly cocky yet confident.
> I think it would be a crying shame if he stopped his celebrations and became another robot in the peloton.
> He's a showman. I for one love to watch the show.


 
He could be misunderstood, and he would not be the first person I have got wrong  I personally see Cav as being slightly cocky yet confident yet I do not see him as being anything more. When Cav speaks he comes across as a cycle fan, at times he is outspoken and says stupid things in the moment when driven by passion. 
When I see Cav, Greipel, Matt Goss and others celebrate they seem overjoyed in their success and the achievement. They seem to be aware that they have just won a stage of an epic and historic endurance event. Sagan by contrast celebrates in a way that is egotistical and appears to be more about feeding his ego than genuinely being overjoyed by success and the achievement. His celebrations appear as if he is suggesting it was easy or a walk in the park at times, so I understand how he probably comes across as disrespectful to those riders who may have tried as hard as him but lack the talent or support required to achieve. I personally think Cancellara has a point.


----------



## smutchin (18 Mar 2013)

Cancellara just doesn't like getting beaten. He can criticise Sagan if he likes but perhaps he'd be better off worrying about the shortcomings in his own team that eg allowed Cannondale to double-team him in the Strade Bianche recently, where the supposedly arrogant Sagan played a perfect team role to help his team-mate win. 

And did we hear Sagan complaining that Ciolek did no work to help the attack in MSR yesterday, only popping up to nick it on the line? No, we didn't. 

If anything, it's Cancellara with his silly, bitter comments who comes across as the arrogant one. Sour grapes.

Sagan has earned the right to celebrate his wins however the hell he likes.


----------



## The Couch (18 Mar 2013)

I don't mind that Sagan celebrates quirky and therefore don't follow Cancellara's comment that he should tone that down: If he just won a race, he can celebrate it. As long as he is respectful in pre- or post-race interviews towards his opponents I don't see a problem and wouldn't consider him narcistic, egotistic or anything like that

Then again, I am personanlly starting to like Sagan less, since he is always jumping onto Cancellara's wheel and as a little bit of a Cancellara fan, I would like Sagan to focus on some other wheels as well. How the hell is Fabian supposed to win, if he always ends up going to the finish-line together with a better sprinter?


----------



## 400bhp (18 Mar 2013)

The Couch said:


> Then again, I am personanlly starting to like Sagan less, since he is always jumping onto Cancellara's wheel and as a little bit of a Cancellara fan, I would like Sagan to focus on some other wheels as well. How the hell is Fabian supposed to win, if he always ends up going to the finish-line together with a better sprinter?


 
That's racing buddy.


----------



## smutchin (18 Mar 2013)

Milan-Sanremo yesterday. 6.7km to go. Cancellara is presumably going after Sagan here to tell him not to sit on his wheel:


----------



## smutchin (18 Mar 2013)

Has Cancellara said anything yet about Ciolek sitting on his wheel yesterday?


----------



## smutchin (18 Mar 2013)

And here's Sagan sitting on Cancellara's wheel again. His front wheel...


----------



## 400bhp (18 Mar 2013)




----------



## yello (18 Mar 2013)

montage said:


> Is arrogance a crime when all you're really doing is expressing the truth?


 
Arrogance isn't a crime fullstop.

Some people don't like those that sing their own praises, or seem too full of themselves, and I think we can all see why that might be - whether we share the view or not. But that's the point here I feel - it's all a matter of opinion.

If I were Sagan, I'd want to be aware of how people might respond to me, how my attitudes and celebrations might p*ss people off, and maybe temper them a little because I don't like to wind people up needlessly. But it's a moot point since I'm not Sagan! And, more to the point, Sagan being Sagan probably wouldn't care what others think! So we're kind of back to square 1!

Love him or hate him, your call. It's all pretty immaterial really. Personally, he makes me smile. Oh, and he's a bloody strong bike rider. I think all can agree on that.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Mar 2013)

I think Cav has already summed this up. Sagan can do what he likes as long as rides as awesomely as he does - and he'll ride even better once he learns a fuller range of tactics. I can't believe people are so frickin miserable about riders who add colour to a peloton which is generally quite anonymous.


----------



## zizou (18 Mar 2013)

I for one like both Cancellera and Sagan and hope to see many great battles to come!

Although i do think they have the potential to cancel each other out with enterprising other riders (like Ciolek yesterday) taking advantage.


----------



## yello (18 Mar 2013)

> I think Cav has already summed this up.


 
If you agree with him!

Cavendish gave his opinion. It might be an opinion people agree with and it might not be. Either way, I don't feel it's correct to say that he summed up the situation.

It's perhaps more accurate to say 'Cav summed it up for those who agree with him'.  Which obviously many here do. For myself, I kind of sit in the middle - as I said, Sagan makes me smile (more importantly I think he's an exciting and fresh new talent) but I can see how he might annoy people. Marmite anyone?


----------



## redcard (18 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think Cav has already summed this up. Sagan can do what he likes as long as rides as awesomely as he does - and he'll ride even better once he learns a fuller range of tactics. I can't believe people are so frickin miserable about riders who add colour to a peloton which is generally quite anonymous.



So anyone not a fan is 'frickin miserable'? That's bizarre.

Frankly, cycling is in some state if making a wacky face is adding colour.

Who knew Sagan had so many boyfriends!


----------



## raindog (18 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Who knew Sagan had so many boyfriends!


eh?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Mar 2013)

yello said:


> If you agree with him!
> 
> Cavendish gave his opinion. It might be an opinion people agree with and it might not be. Either way, I don't feel it's correct to say that he summed up the situation.
> 
> It's perhaps more accurate to say 'Cav summed it up for those who agree with him'.  Which obviously many here do. For myself, I kind of sit in the middle - as I said, Sagan makes me smile (more importantly I think he's an exciting and fresh new talent) but I can see how he might annoy people. Marmite anyone?


 
You did notice the 'I think' at the beginning of my comment? Kinda makes the rest of your post rather unnecessary.


----------



## yello (18 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You did notice the 'I think' at the beginning of my comment?


 
Yes. Did you notice I removed your name from the quote?

That was deliberately done in an attempt to indicate that I wasn't intending to quote you directly but more to address the point generally. The first draft of my reply addressed you directly but I axed it for the purposes of brevity. In that context, my reply stands - Cavendish only summed it up if you happen to agree with him. And I accept you, and many others, agree with Cavendish.

My point generally was that it's something that there'll never be agreement on. That was my take. I don't have a strong feeling either way on the subject. Certainly not sufficiently to become dismissive of others, much less abusive, over.


----------



## jdtate101 (18 Mar 2013)

He's like a boxer....they love to showboat, but it's not the real him. I'd bet he's actually quite quiet and a nice guy to be around, fun too. I like him, as not only is he a prodigious talent, but he's having fun with it, after all he's only young once and this could all be over very quickly. All it takes is one bad crash and a career can be in ruins, so in my mind...live it up Pete and enjoy.


----------



## Get In The Van (18 Mar 2013)

Is Sagan the Balotelli of the cycling world?


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2013)

Get In The Van said:


> Is Sagan the Balotelli of the cycling world?


Which world is Balotelli the Balotelli of?


----------



## kedab (18 Mar 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Come on be fair, how cool is this
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onamrs8jx2I



how do you do that? that is billiant!


----------



## kedab (18 Mar 2013)

The Couch said:


> How the hell is Fabian supposed to win, if he always ends up going to the finish-line together with a better sprinter?


 
he's not supposed to win, the best rider is supposed to win


----------



## Paragan (19 Mar 2013)

Hi Guys,
Great to see some thread about P.Sagan and see how actually people see him celebrating his victories and calling him arrogant without the respect another cyclists.I was born the same city and did the same secondary school as his brother Juraj so I know them quiet well.First of all they are very simply guys and specially Peter just love and need always fun.I think his celebration are suit more in group of younger crazy guys who try to do fun each other when they win race.I understand older guys and specially cyclist stars like Fabian Ch.doesn't understand it which is fine.
One more thing and I think very important one:Peter loves cycling with his heart.It is sound like a Fraze but from his region is a few guys in pro tour teams and they are definitely different I mean different how they look on cycling,races and winning.They see cycling more like a job and making some money.Peter see cycling with his heart he needs to have fun because of his personality.I hope he will keep this for very long.Peter Sagan definitely respect very well every person(otherwise his Mum will be smack him)) but I will be not surprise if he wants to make time to time some fun from stars like Fabian and specially if he knows how he will react)))))anyway this is first year when people look at him like a new star but I think as I know his parents they will keep him on the ground as they have quiet close relationship.He is only 23 but mentally he is even younger.So better if people see him more in this way.Crazy young kid who really love fun and doing crazy things.

Apologize in advance if my post is full of mistakes but English is not my mother language.Peter doesn't need any defenc. from my side this post was more about first try to understand culture where is come from,from what family ,his real personality etc.When you see him you always watching very very simply guy and very young boy.
Thanks.


----------



## ColinJ (19 Mar 2013)

I am looking forward to watching Peter Sagan race for many years to come! Okay, he shows off when he wins, but he has a lot to show off about. 

Were they complaining when Cavendish bunny hopped the finish line when he won a Vuelta stage in 2010 ...?


----------



## raindog (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> Apologize in advance if my post is full of mistakes but English is not my mother language.


You did fine Paragan - wish I could write as well as that in your language!


----------



## smutchin (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> Peter just love and need always fun.I think his celebration are suit more in group of younger crazy guys who try to do fun each other when they win race.I understand older guys and specially cyclist stars like Fabian Ch.doesn't understand it which is fine.



This is spot on. I think the reason I like Sagan is that everything he does is with a genuine sense of fun. He's not setting out to deliberately upset other riders. But while he's having fun, he still treats bike racing seriously enough and works extremely hard at it. 

I can think of other "characters" from the history of bike racing who I haven't liked nearly as much - eg Cipollini, who really was very arrogant indeed. I couldn't stand that preening oaf.



> They see cycling more like a job and making some money.Peter see cycling with his heart he needs to have fun because of his personality.



Traditionally, cycling is a very working class sport and has been seen by boys from a poor background as a way to make something of themselves, though there wasn't always as much money in the sport as there is now (and still isn't outside the top level). A lot of that mentality still persists in pro cycling, and I can understand why, but it's good that there's room in the sport for a touch of glamour. As long as it doesn't turn into football. 



> Peter Sagan definitely respect very well every person(otherwise his Mum will be smack him))



Ha! I'd love to meet Mrs Sagan. 

I think he actually shows Cancellara a lot more respect than Cancellara gives him credit for - choosing Cancellara as the wheel to follow is surely a compliment?



> Apologize in advance if my post is full of mistakes but English is not my mother language.Peter doesn't need any defenc. from my side this post was more about first try to understand culture where is come from,from what family ,his real personality etc.When you see him you always watching very very simply guy and very young boy.
> Thanks.



No need to apologise for a very worthwhile and enjoyable contribution to the discussion. 

d.


----------



## yello (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> I understand older guys and specially cyclist stars like Fabian Ch.doesn't understand it which is fine..


 
An excellent attitude to have. Live and let live. An excellent post Paragan and your English is fine.


----------



## Peteaud (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Apologize in advance if my post is full of mistakes but English is not my mother language.Peter doesn't need any defenc. from my side this post was more about first try to understand culture where is come from,from what family ,his real personality etc.When you see him you always watching very very simply guy and very young boy.
> Thanks.


 
Nice post and as i have said i think Sagan is uber cool anyway.


----------



## zizou (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> Hi Guys,
> Great to see some thread about P.Sagan and see how actually people see him celebrating his victories and calling him arrogant without the respect another cyclists.I was born the same city and did the same secondary school as his brother Juraj so I know them quiet well.First of all they are very simply guys and specially Peter just love and need always fun.I think his celebration are suit more in group of younger crazy guys who try to do fun each other when they win race.I understand older guys and specially cyclist stars like Fabian Ch.doesn't understand it which is fine.
> One more thing and I think very important one:Peter loves cycling with his heart.It is sound like a Fraze but from his region is a few guys in pro tour teams and they are definitely different I mean different how they look on cycling,races and winning.They see cycling more like a job and making some money.Peter see cycling with his heart he needs to have fun because of his personality.I hope he will keep this for very long.Peter Sagan definitely respect very well every person(otherwise his Mum will be smack him)) but I will be not surprise if he wants to make time to time some fun from stars like Fabian and specially if he knows how he will react)))))anyway this is first year when people look at him like a new star but I think as I know his parents they will keep him on the ground as they have quiet close relationship.He is only 23 but mentally he is even younger.So better if people see him more in this way.Crazy young kid who really love fun and doing crazy things.
> 
> ...


 

Nice post and your english is good.

He maybe older now and a pro cyclist but it wasn't so long ago he was just another kid uploading videos to youtube of himself doing tricks on his bike - If he wasn't a pro cyclist he'd probably still be doing that sort of stuff just playing about on his bike with his friends and having a bit of fun.


----------



## rockyraccoon (19 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> Hi Guys,
> Great to see some thread about P.Sagan and see how actually people see him celebrating his victories and calling him arrogant without the respect another cyclists*...**.*


 
It doesn't matter if his is arrogant or not, as long as he continues to put on a good show and to bring excitement in every race I am happy.. I see Pete Sagan as those young Brazilian footballers whose can transform football (in this case cycling) into a beautiful art form.


----------



## BJH (19 Mar 2013)

I have seen post on here critical of us Brits suggesting we have a different view of our own riders compared to ten rest of the world.

I think the comments above should leave you in no doubt how highly this guy is rated.

I am looking forward to his next celebration for winning - wonder how long before others begin to copy?


----------



## Hip Priest (19 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I can't believe people are so frickin miserable about riders who add colour to a peloton which is generally quite anonymous.


 
That's a bit unfair. Sagan thrills me as a rider, but his antics aren't to my taste. I don't think they're disrespectful, it's just that I have a different sense of humour, and a different view of what is cool (note: the guy in my avatar is cool).

To me, his antics don't 'add colour', they're just a mildly irritating sideshow. The important thing is that he's a genuine once in a lifetime talent, and I look forward to watching him race for years to come.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Mar 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> That's a bit unfair. Sagan thrills me as a rider, but his antics aren't to my taste. I don't think they're disrespectful, it's just that I have a different sense of humour, and a different view of what is cool (note: the guy in my avatar is cool).
> 
> To me, his antics don't 'add colour', they're just a mildly irritating sideshow. The important thing is that he's a genuine once in a lifetime talent, and I look forward to watching him race for years to come.


 
Fine, but read the post by Paragan above - all of what he is and does comes out of a genuine love for cycling. I just get a bit bored of people making judgements on how people like Sagan (and Cav gets this too) should behave. If he was doping, or cheating or riding dangerously or making stupid comments about other riders, then sure, condemn him for the particulars. But someone who is just so imbued with the joy of riding - leave that guy alone!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 Mar 2013)

Watch this stage 3 of Oman from 21 minutes. Goosebumps at 22.10. 

Stunning. 

Too long to upload here i think but here is the link anyway. It won't embed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=md0fiqiYJVA


----------



## rich p (19 Mar 2013)

I think the armchair cychologists are outnumbering the armchair cyclists on this thread


----------



## raindog (20 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Watch this stage 3 of Oman from 21 minutes. Goosebumps at 22.10.
> 
> Stunning.


Yes, that was a good one, wasn't it? I've got a photo of that finish on my 'puter.


----------



## Hip Priest (20 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Fine, but read the post by Paragan above - all of what he is and does comes out of a genuine love for cycling. I just get a bit bored of people making judgements on how people like Sagan (and Cav gets this too) should behave. If he was doping, or cheating or riding dangerously or making stupid comments about other riders, then sure, condemn him for the particulars. But someone who is just so imbued with the joy of riding - leave that guy alone!



Ha! Well I guess some of us get a laugh out of chicken impressions and some don't. Each to their own.


----------



## just jim (20 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Watch this stage 3 of Oman from 21 minutes. Goosebumps at 22.10.
> 
> Stunning.
> 
> ...


He was quite close to knocking his head off that sign at 22.17.


----------



## MrGrumpy (20 Mar 2013)

HLaB said:


> I couldn't do it myself but I quite used to it back in Dunfie I cycle with this bloke


 

Is that Mr Hardie by any chance?


----------



## HLaB (20 Mar 2013)

MrGrumpy said:


> Is that Mr Hardie by any chance?


 It is indeed


----------



## Paragan (24 Mar 2013)

First victory from classic is finally at home and great celebration ala Valentino Rossi)


----------



## smutchin (24 Mar 2013)

"Is easier make win without idiot Cancellara keep getting in way."


----------



## Hip Priest (24 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> "Is easier make win without idiot Cancellara keep getting in way."


 
Ha! Is that a real quote from Sagan?


----------



## smutchin (24 Mar 2013)

No, just me being silly. 

(I am still genuinely a big fan of Cancellara, btw.)


----------



## Hip Priest (24 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> No, just me being silly.
> 
> (I am still genuinely a big fan of Cancellara, btw.)


 
It made me laugh anyway. 

So now he can add a classics win to his rapidly expanding palmares. What a rider.


----------



## raindog (24 Mar 2013)




----------



## Mr Haematocrit (24 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


>


 
I don't actually mind that, its a bit of show boating and entertaining, I see that the same way as Cav's bunny hop. The celebration in particular that I dislike and the one I felt came across as arrogant as if to suggest that win was a walk in the park and he could in effect jog over the line was this one.






Certainly a talented guy though


----------



## Hip Priest (24 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> I don't actually mind that, its a bit of show boating and entertaining, I see that the same way as Cav's bunny hop. The celebration in particular that I dislike and the one I felt came across as arrogant as if to suggest that win was a walk in the park and he could in effect jog over the line was this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Didn't he say that was a Forrest Gump impression? (I've not seen Forrest Gump so I wouldn't know for sure).


----------



## jdtate101 (24 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> I don't actually mind that, its a bit of show boating and entertaining, I see that the same way as Cav's bunny hop. The celebration in particular that I dislike and the one I felt came across as arrogant as if to suggest that win was a walk in the park and he could in effect jog over the line was this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
But he actually said in the post interview it was an in joke with his mates back home who dared him to do a "forrest gump" run if he won, I don't think there was any serious hint of suggestion that it was a walk over.


----------



## jdtate101 (24 Mar 2013)

Cannondale even got him to do a marketing video as Forrest:


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (24 Mar 2013)

Perhaps it was a joke who knows, I most certainly do not and as previously stated in this thread I may have Sagan all wrong, even after I became aware of the Forrest gump statement it changed little for me, I think its a distasteful celebration... I just don't like it.
The wheely is cool, the running is not imho


----------



## Noodley (24 Mar 2013)

Where do you stand on his Incredible Hulk celebration?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Where do you stand on his Incredible Hulk celebration?


 
It probably makes him angry, very angry, and you won't like him when he's angry...


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (24 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Where do you stand on his Incredible Hulk celebration?


 
I thought it was a little strange and perhaps a little egotistical but to be honest I never thought it was disrespectful. It most certainly was not cool.
A lot of what I do not like comes from his expression, in the wheely and hulk pictures he looks like he appreciates that he raced hard against other great cyclists and achieved something. When you look at the Forrest gump, or the chicken celebration images, he just looks a bit of a smug and cocky git.

Great question though


----------



## jifdave (24 Mar 2013)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omeyMVzrwH8
2:10 for the wheelie


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (24 Mar 2013)

Tweet from Cav earlier:

"Not as we hoped today in Gent-Wevelgem, but @opqscyclingteam rode hard. Struggling to think how to beat that Peter Sagan machine! Incredible". Cav


----------



## beastie (24 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Perhaps it was a joke who knows, I most certainly do not and as previously stated in this thread I may have Sagan all wrong, even after I became aware of the Forrest gump statement it changed little for me, I think its a distasteful celebration... I just don't like it.
> The wheely is cool, the running is not imho


Come on, what's the difference? There's been grumbles about him disrespecting the peloton by no handies a wheelie up the Angliru etc. Bollocks, it's just a talented boy getting the zest out of life.


----------



## Radchenister (24 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Where do you stand on his Incredible Hulk celebration?


 
I'm green with envy - wah wah wah wahaaaaa!


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (25 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> *Come on, what's the difference*? There's been grumbles about him disrespecting the peloton by no handies a wheelie up the Angliru etc. Bollocks, it's just a talented boy getting the zest out of life.


 
It's all about the perception you get from the action. As stated previously I thought Noodley asked a great question regarding my views and informed him of this. The question made me think hard about what I personally did not like, and upon reflection I find its Sagan's smug and cocky git expression rather than the celebration itself, it presents to me an exaggerated sense of his own importance and ability.
That's the difference to me..... He does not have this expression during the wheelie..... There may have been grumbles about him disrespecting the peloton by a no handies a wheelie but I have no issues with it, as I have previously stated.
I am unable to speak for the peloton's or anybody else's grumbles other than my own


----------



## raindog (25 Mar 2013)

Sagan has personality - I like him.


----------



## yello (25 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> It's all about the perception you get from the action.


 
I agree. It seems almost to be polarising. As I've said before, it's to be expected. Anything new or different generates opinion. And opinion is only that. We really ought not concern ourselves about to be expected differences... as interesting as it is for discussion!

It's a pity that discussion diverts from the guy's obvious talent. I hope that the people who do not like the celebrations etc can acknowledge what an exciting talent Peter Sagan is.


----------



## Radchenister (25 Mar 2013)

Pft - he rides a bicycle for a living, perhaps his actions really are offensive or perhaps bad weather cabin fever strikes again  .

I suspect he'd be mortified if he knew people on the internet were bothered by his actions (not).


----------



## e-rider (25 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> I thought it was a little strange and perhaps a little egotistical but to be honest I never thought it was disrespectful. It most certainly was not cool.
> A lot of what I do not like comes from his expression, in the wheely and hulk pictures he looks like he appreciates that he raced hard against other great cyclists and achieved something. When you look at the Forrest gump, or the chicken celebration images, he just looks a bit of a smug and cocky git.
> 
> Great question though


you need to get a life - he's a great cyclist; so what if he is smug and cocky (which I don't think he is anyway)!
there are far worse people (and crimes) in this world


----------



## smutchin (25 Mar 2013)

Sagan is hardly the first sprinter in the history of cycling to be "a bit of a character". He's certainly not the first to celebrate a win with a wheelie. In fact, probably all the best sprinters ever have had something of that about their personality. It goes with the territory.

Personally, I never liked Cipollini but I adore Sagan. Cipollini expressed himself with wacky zebra-striped outfits, Sagan does it with Forrest Gump impressions. I can't really explain why one riles me and the other doesn't. There's nothing rational about it.


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

e-rider said:


> you need to get a life - he's a great cyclist; so what if he is smug and cocky (which I don't think he is anyway)!
> there are far worse people (and crimes) in this world


 
lol nobber.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (25 Mar 2013)

e-rider said:


> *you need to get a life* - he's a great cyclist; so what if he is smug and cocky (which I don't think he is anyway)!
> there are far worse people (and crimes) in this world


 
One of the things which I enjoy about computer forums is how they permit you to have a different view to others and for them to be challenged respectfully and effectively in the manner that Noodley did with me in this very thread. His question alone made me look at what I did not like in some of Sagans celebrations
I also enjoy how people like Pedrosanchezo can have completely differing opinions to myself, yet communicate and express them in a clear balanced manner respectful of others.

I would like to clarify that I stated during this thread that "_There is no doubting Sagan is good_" and that he was "_Certainly a talented guy though_". Equally I never ever stated that he was a smug and cocky git. I only observed that his expressions made him appear to be this way with statements such as "_he just looks a bit of a smug and cocky git_" and "_I find its Sagan's smug and cocky git expression_"... I equally stated that I may be wrong with the statement "_he would not be the first person I have got wrong_".
I think you will equally find that at no point during this thread did I suggest or say Sagan was either a bad cyclist or person, or that he has committed any crimes.

In fact you stated "_so what if he is smug and cocky_" which makes me believe you may think this he is, I'm curious to know if you think Sagan is what you said and why?

Im equally curious as to know what makes you think I need a life and what's wrong with the quality of the one I have, would you like to compare yours with mine to obtain a better understanding. Im always happy to learn and be challenged especially when done so in such a charming manner.


----------



## Radchenister (25 Mar 2013)

I for one think he's a precocious talent with just enough humour to tip the balance in his favour to be considered entertaining. He reminds me of many interesting friends from when I was a lad (and perhaps a bit of myself); I sometimes see my own son venturing into 'cockiness' on occasions and I remind him of the time I saw him 'cheese rolling' down a ski run in St Martin De Belleville at the age of 4 - this is often referred to at key moments and known as the 'too cocky' incident, a point of reference to keep a cool head and reign in the monkey when buzzing with exuberance.

I like young characters with spirit though, they make things interesting and will make mistakes as they push the boundaries; this guy is giving it his all in a challenging environment and will go through phases when the world is his oyster but most likely also have setbacks, sometimes he will be feeling invincible and inevitably on occasions he will fall flat, be doubted by many and have to prove himself again ... undoubtedly he will age and become more rounded ... perhaps in ten years he will act quite differently?

Of course, he might just fizzle out but then again perhaps he'll have an amazing story and in the future people will remind others what he was like as a newbie, probably when the next generation's talented show boater pops the front wheel up coming over the line.

Life is like ...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 Mar 2013)

Opinions differ guys. The world would be extremely boring if we all thought the same!


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Opinions differ guys. The world would be extremely boring if we all thought the same!


 
100 % agree with you. Disagreeing with someones opinion is fair enough being rude and insulting is uncalled for.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 Mar 2013)

mark st1 said:


> 100 % agree with you. Disagreeing with someones opinion is fair enough being rude and insulting is uncalled for.


 
!*@? off!


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> !*@? off!


 
:troll:


----------



## Basil.B (25 Mar 2013)

Reminds me of Valentino Rossi, when he does the wheelie.


----------



## Peteaud (25 Mar 2013)

Although Mr Venge does not like Sagans cocky git look in all fairness he has put his views in a polite and respectful way. I like Sagan and disagree with Mr Venge, but thats life.


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

Basil.B said:


> Reminds me of Valentino Rossi, when he does the wheelie.


 
Quite irresponsible behavior for a doctor


----------



## kedab (25 Mar 2013)

Basil.B said:


> Reminds me of Valentino Rossi, when he does the wheelie.


 
i am very much looking forward to watching the genius that is Mr Valentino Rossi upset many on the motoGP grid this term. now that he's back on a bike capable of putting him in the mix, i await some rather fantastic race win celebrations from The Doctor and his nutty fan club. i frikin love him i do 

oh and Sagan, i think he's pretty cool. i don't mind his celebrations but can see why some might. i don't like his name though, reminds me Sagat in Street Fighter 2 - i didn't like him.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 Mar 2013)

kedab said:


> i am very much looking forward to watching the genius that is Mr Valentino Rossi upset many on the motoGP grid this term. now that he's back on a bike capable of putting him in the mix, i await some rather fantastic race win celebrations from The Doctor and his nutty fan club. i frikin love him i do
> 
> oh and Sagan, i think he's pretty cool. i don't mind his celebrations but can see why some might. i don't like his name though, reminds me Sagat in Street Fighter 2 - i didn't like him.


Sagat? Thai kickboxing legend that he was!!! Bare knuckle and all that. You should be ashamed!! A legend in the Street  fighter franchise.


----------



## kedab (25 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Sagat? Thai kickboxing legend that he was!!! Bare knuckle and all that. You should be ashamed!! A legend in the Street  fighter franchise.


 
he was way overpowered - though i would whup his narrow ass with Ken, all day


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

Your both wrong anyway Mortal Kombat was the way to go


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 Mar 2013)

Without doubt M.Bison was unbeatable.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (25 Mar 2013)

Given his talent, I have no problem with his youthful exuberance. After all, there's little evidence that youth messed the world up. It's when they get older and more cynical that the damage starts.


----------



## lukesdad (25 Mar 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Given his talent, I have no problem with his youthful exuberance. After all, there's little evidence that youth messed the world up. It's when they get older and more cynical that the damage starts.


 Here lies his problem, RR is conservative, his background mtb is not.


----------



## mark st1 (25 Mar 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Without doubt M.Bison was unbeatable.


 
Raiden would own him anyday


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (25 Mar 2013)

totally random thread diversion


----------



## Paragan (26 Mar 2013)

Basil.B said:


> Reminds me of Valentino Rossi, when he does the wheelie.


Lol exactly.Peter loves Valentino Rossi.He was always waiting to watch Rossi's celebration after his victore and then he try on his bike as well)).
As is thread about Peter so I can write more things about him.Probbably some guys here knows some but anyway here it is:
1.He won his first race on sister bike which was from supermarket))(was obvoisly MTB race for kids)I thing he said this on his website.
2.Also he won race as a cadet even he was younger then other was together Czech and Slovak national cup on the road bike which was very similar to supermarket bike(even I saw somewhere on internet photo from strat where all cadets just was looking on his bike if he is really serious)) ) and he wan that race).(Here again you can see there wasn't too much money and better say he doesn't have father with any cyclist history who will pushing his son into cycling buy for him bike and have some contacts with pro teams atd.(hard to explain)
He was just buying old components and building his bike and then breaks frames))) all MTB
3.He was first year junior and world cup (road) he was with three Italians rider(second yrs.juniors) and he decided break and wining race like that.Three Italians just catch him and he finish fourth)).So he is not really wheel sucker as some people were saying after his a few victories.He is very aggressive rider by his natural.He is now learning tactics.
4.When Cannondale /Lig offer to him his first contract well that was great but if he can get the same contract for MTB team race in that time and his age he will go definitely for MTB team and not Road bike team b/c he loves mtb is more fun for him.Personally mtb suit him more.He always like to play with bike,know bike,try to find limits the bike etc.
5.Peter is very lucky he've got contract with pro tour team as he doesn't have father with any cyclist connections.This is maybe sound strange but in Slovakia,Czech there was and there is many talented riders but 95% of them will be never get chance in pro teams.Cycling in these countries is really in bad condition well actually any sport.So when people win a few stages is absolutely great and whole country just start talking about cycling.Kinds need there a new idol who will leading them and then kids can little bit more push parents so even whole families can start to riding together.Last summer I guess everyone was there wearing green jersey))

Well If he will be great cyclist that answear we will get after cca 10yrs.but he already gave to some kids hope and show them the way.

Hm another rant from me so I hope I don't offend anyone specially guys who don't like him. I love watching Cav.specially how he is finding his best position(in sec.) and timing sprint I don't know any better sprinter in this and of course he is super fast but all his work before sprint is just amazing())) this wasn't about Peter but they are both great.
I wish to you great week guys.


----------



## raindog (26 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> 1.He won his first race on sister bike which was from supermarket))


Love it! 
As a lad, Poulidor used to nick his mam's old bike to go on his first club rides.

Another good post Paragan


----------



## yello (26 Mar 2013)

More fascinating background Paragan. Thank you! 



Paragan said:


> This is maybe sound strange but in Slovakia,Czech there was and there is many talented riders but 95% of them will be never get chance in pro teams.Cycling in these countries is really in bad condition well actually any sport.So when people win a few stages is absolutely great and whole country just start talking about cycling.Kinds need there a new idol who will leading them and then kids can little bit more push parents so even whole families can start to riding together.Last summer I guess everyone was there wearing green jersey))


 
This sounds familiar. I'm sure the UK saw kids wearing yellow and pretending to be Wiggins. I'm sure the same is true for many countries when a local makes good.

It also possibly one of the plus points of the attention grabbing celebration; it makes the sport seem all the more attractive/exciting to youngsters.

It was a pretty crap wheelie though  Rossi would do FAR better!!


----------



## Radchenister (26 Mar 2013)

I vaguely remember seeing Rossi on tv wheelying his moped as a newbie.

Sat here wondering if in my mid 40s I can still do wheelies - hmm, might have to have a go today; if I can do them then Sagan gets the thumbs up , if not I might decide to dislike him as I will officially be a cynical old git  !

-------

Update: woohoo, I can still do wheelies, take that oldies  , Peter Sagan get's the thumbs up from me  !


----------



## Trail Child (26 Mar 2013)

I think Sagan is a breath of fresh air. I really enjoy watching him.


----------



## The Couch (26 Mar 2013)

Paragan said:


> ...
> 3.He was first year junior and world cup (road) he was with three Italians rider(second yrs.juniors) and he decided break and wining race like that.Three Italians just catch him and he finish fourth)).So he is not really wheel sucker as some people were saying after his a few victories.He is very aggressive rider by his natural.He is now learning tactics...


I believe Diego Ulissi won that championship and Sagan was so mad about the fact that the 3 Italians conspired against him, that he didn't even want to give him a (congratulative) hand when they were both queuing for the doping check. 

(Just a funny anekdote to show he defintely has the winning spirit needed to be a great sporter)


----------



## Paragan (26 Mar 2013)

The Couch said:


> I believe Diego Ulissi won that championship and Sagan was so mad about the fact that the 3 Italians conspired against him, that he didn't even want to give him a (congratulative) hand when they were both queuing for the doping check.
> 
> (Just a funny anekdote to show he defintely has the winning spirit needed to be a great sporter)


Yes,you are right.That was that race)))))))))


----------



## smutchin (26 Mar 2013)

A young Peter Sagan photobombs a bike race...

http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/46346162604/a-young-peter-sagan-photobombs-a-bike-race-either


----------



## Radchenister (26 Mar 2013)

... and as if his ears were burning:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...ues-winning-streak-with-de-panne-victory.html


----------



## BJH (27 Mar 2013)

One thing I noticed on the Cycling News site is how naughty they are being about Sagan.

They had an article post Milan Sanremo in which he expressed his disappointment but went on in a kind of such is life moment to say something to the effect of Who Knows, maybe it's my destiny to win Flanders

Now they keep referring back to Sagan saying he's destined to win it.

He is a breath of fresh air and if he was a Brit we would be absolutely full of him


----------



## lukesdad (27 Mar 2013)

well you 're obviously full of him, why does being a Brit make a difference ?


----------



## Rob3rt (27 Mar 2013)

BJH said:


> One thing I noticed on the Cycling News site is how naughty they are being about Sagan.
> 
> They had an article post Milan Sanremo in which he expressed his disappointment but went on in a kind of such is life moment to say something to the effect of Who Knows, maybe it's my destiny to win Flanders
> 
> ...


 
Speak for yourself, I couldn't care less where he is from.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (27 Mar 2013)

I thought stage one of three days of de panne was rather interesting, when Sagan moved over on Démare it amazed me that he was able to come of the power, touch Sagan's back and still come a very very close second. Incredible.
Not for one moment did I think it was a deliberate move by Sagan. It was just one of those unfortunate racing moments. I equally think that Sagan realised that he would have been beaten to the line if this had not occurred and I really liked the fact that at the end there was no big celebration.
I also liked the fact Sagan gave Démare a pat on the back after they crossed the line which appeared to be a recognition of what had happened. It seemed respectful

What can I say other than his sport man like conduct impressed me, hope he continues to do so.


----------



## BJH (27 Mar 2013)

lukesdad said:


> well you 're obviously full of him, why does being a Brit make a difference ?



Not full of him at all, I just think he is a very very talented rider.

My point about if he was a Brit is quite simple, I don't believe we would see the same comments about him.

Incredible confidence for one man is another's arrogance


----------



## BJH (27 Mar 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Speak for yourself, I couldn't care less where he is from.



Me neither - the point is that it does affect some people's views.


----------



## lukesdad (27 Mar 2013)

BJH said:


> Not full of him at all, I just think he is a very very talented rider.
> 
> My point about if he was a Brit is quite simple, I don't believe we would see the same comments about him.
> 
> Incredible confidence for one man is another's arrogance


 
Sure you wouldn t want to stretch that to a very very very talented rider ?

Don t you believe it !

Or a young man's ignorance ?


----------



## smutchin (28 Mar 2013)

BJH said:


> My point about if he was a Brit is quite simple, I don't believe we would see the same comments about him.


 
You have a short memory - many Brits were making similar comments about Cav in 2007.


----------



## raindog (28 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> You have a short memory - many Brits were making similar comments about Cav in 2007.


Absolutely. Cav got (and still gets from some quarters) a lot more dislike and criticism than Sagan ever has.


----------



## Rob3rt (28 Mar 2013)

BJH said:


> Me neither - the point is that it does affect some people's views.


 
People are fickle.


----------



## BJH (28 Mar 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> People are fickle.


 
Yes indeed, my point exactly


----------



## VamP (28 Mar 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> People are fickle.


Apart from the steadfast ones


----------



## smutchin (31 Mar 2013)

I like Sagan but he loses points for this...

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGslCFsCMAIvvwY.jpg


----------



## Hip Priest (31 Mar 2013)

Pinching a woman's bum. What a character! Sigh.


----------



## Radchenister (31 Mar 2013)

Cue 'Outraged from ... ' .


----------



## redcard (31 Mar 2013)

Anyone gonna use the "he's just a big kid" line?


----------



## Baggy (31 Mar 2013)

Pity that he has so much class on the bike and so little off it. 

Definitely time to get rid of podium girls...


----------



## Radchenister (31 Mar 2013)

Just sayin' ... but what else would the podium girls have to get glammed up for and enjoy themselves at on a cold Sunday in March?


----------



## Scoosh (31 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> I like Sagan but he loses points for this...
> 
> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGslCFsCMAIvvwY.jpg


But he gained points when on the podium for, while holding his bottle of champers as the photos were being taken, pointing to Fabs, indicating "He's the One !".

... but there wouldn't be a pic of that ...


----------



## raindog (1 Apr 2013)

Cannondale have dismissed Sagan with immediate effect. 
A spokesman said "This is 2013. We can't allow our riders to go around displaying this kind of sexist behaviour however good they are on a bike"
blimey


----------



## smutchin (1 Apr 2013)

What? Really? It was a stupid thing to do but that's an overreaction... Probably. 

I'm not sure what I think, tbh. The whole concept of podium girls isn't very 2013, is it?


----------



## smutchin (1 Apr 2013)

Scoosh said:


> But he gained points when on the podium for, while holding his bottle of champers as the photos were being taken, pointing to Fabs, indicating "He's the One !".
> 
> ... but there wouldn't be a pic of that ...



Paolo di Canio famously refused to score a goal after the opposition goalie got injured, but he's still a referee-assaulting piece of fascist shoot.


----------



## Radchenister (1 Apr 2013)

What's the date again?


----------



## smutchin (1 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> What's the date again?



Doh! :facepalm:


----------



## Radchenister (1 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Doh! :facepalm:


 
I will admit to a quick Google to make sure  ... and in doing so, have found out that the 'news' is reaffirming how shocking and outrageous it is; ok, I'll concede that the actions on the podium yesterday were totally unacceptable - I hope Spartacus sues those women for every penny, groping and kissing him is just not on!


----------



## RWright (1 Apr 2013)

Hey Forrest, stupid is as stupid does. That is just too funny.


----------



## montage (1 Apr 2013)

He's skipping roubaix


----------



## jifdave (1 Apr 2013)

good try


----------



## yello (1 Apr 2013)

Hop scotch would be more appropriate than skipping.


----------



## neilb1906 (1 Apr 2013)

All sports have or have had their Sagans.......footy had Best and Gazza, snooker had Alex Higgins and clay pidgeon shooting had.... er..........

Hes great for the sport and is a good balancer, in both respects of the word.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Apr 2013)

RWright said:


> Hey Forrest, stupid is as stupid does. That is just too funny.


----------



## Radchenister (1 Apr 2013)

I am outraged!


----------



## RWright (1 Apr 2013)

Nice picture. My side is hurting from laughing so much this morning.


----------



## Basil.B (1 Apr 2013)

That is nothing compared to what James Hunt used to get up to!


----------



## Paragan (1 Apr 2013)

Bloody hell since when he likes blondes?


----------



## raindog (1 Apr 2013)

Cancellara is blonde?


----------



## Paragan (2 Apr 2013)

So then he likes Cancellara.Hm so not morebetween them.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (2 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> Cancellara is blonde?


Natural blonde............


----------



## raindog (2 Apr 2013)

all's well, that ends well....
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201101264360053&set=vb.369505964466&type=2&theater


----------



## Paragan (2 Apr 2013)

http://www.facebook.com/events/143734192465984/


----------



## RWright (3 Apr 2013)

Nice to see the apology and I hope the girl is ok with the apology too. It drove home the fact of his age. He is young and he is a wild and crazy guy!


----------



## Peteaud (3 Apr 2013)

He is at it again


----------



## ColinJ (3 Apr 2013)

I can see this meme going on for years like the Hitler's bunker one!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Apr 2013)

Sorry if this has already been posted. Podium girl Maya speaks. I can help thinking that publicly turning on him would have been a more appropriate response.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (3 Apr 2013)

I like Sagan's comments in this article, they made me really laugh.

_“I have never groped in my life,” said a deadpan Sagan. “I have done hundreds of races in my career, and never once have I ever groped. Ever. And anyone who accuses me of groping is a liar.”_

http://drunkcyclist.com/2013/04/01/peter-sagan-denies-groping/


----------



## Radchenister (3 Apr 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I can see this meme going on for years like the Hitler's bunker one!


 
I suppose it distracts people from being concerned over global financial meltdown and North Korean nuclear capabilities  .


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (3 Apr 2013)

_Sagan reached into his jersey pocket and pulled out a piece of paper with a phone number written in lipstick.
“But if I was groping like some horny Italian teenager, do you think I would have gotten her number?”_​


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (3 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I suppose it distracts people from being concerned over global financial meltdown and North Korean nuclear capabilities  .


Thanks, i had just forgotten about that!


----------



## Buddfox (3 Apr 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Sorry if this has already been posted. Podium girl Maya speaks. I can help thinking that publicly turning on him would have been a more appropriate response.


 
The headlines it would have generated if she had slapped him would have been worth it IMHO. It was a deeply offensive thing for Sagan to do.


----------



## yello (3 Apr 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I can see this meme going on for years like the Hitler's bunker one!


 
No, surely not. You think it could it get that tedious?


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (3 Apr 2013)

Adam Tranter, editor of website Cyclosport, retweeted the picture and wrote: “The moment you realise Sagan is actually just a bit of an idiot.”


----------



## Monsieur Remings (3 Apr 2013)

However much I'd like to like him, I don't. 

I have to say how pleased I was that Cancellara won the Flanders race so convincingly.


----------



## Noodley (4 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Adam Tranter, editor of website Cyclosport, retweeted the picture and wrote: “The moment you realise Sagan is actually just a bit of an idiot.”


 
Is that what Adam Tranter is doing now, good on him - I remember back in the C+ days when he was a forum member and stated that he wanted to become a cycling journalist and set out to fulfil his dream...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Apr 2013)

I like Sagan as a rider, but that doesn't mean I have to like him off the bike. He has time to redeem himself anyway. If he makes a habit of this kind of thing then he has a problem.


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

Many admired Big Tex as a rider,remember ? A nobber is a nobber, eh Noods ?


----------



## User169 (4 Apr 2013)

My 7 year old daughter asked me about Sagan this morning. His antics were even reported in her children's newspaper.


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think Cav has already summed this up. Sagan can do what he likes as long as rides as awesomely as he does - and he'll ride even better once he learns a fuller range of tactics. I can't believe people are so frickin miserable about riders who add colour to a peloton which is generally quite anonymous.


 
Care to comment on this statement in light of recent events ? Or maybe the 9 others that liked it might ?


----------



## Radchenister (4 Apr 2013)

Uh oh, it's the hindsight Police!

What sort of comment were you after?


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Uh oh, it's the hind sight Police!
> 
> What sort of comment were you after?


 Hindsight ? Some of the regulars maybe along (but im not holding out much hope !) to inform you of my opinion of Sagan.
Oh and your post is comment enough ta.


----------



## Radchenister (4 Apr 2013)

You're welcome.


----------



## yello (4 Apr 2013)

ld's question is robust but a fair one. FM can, and no doubt will, comment for himself.

But personally I would say that I don't think FM's comment "Sagan can do what he likes as long as rides as awesomely as he does" can be fairly taken to include the bum pinching. I'm quite sure FM didn't envisage that and indeed has subsequently stated his disapproval.


----------



## Radchenister (4 Apr 2013)

Oh, I didn't realise the locals had official stances on this forum, I look forward to the press release .


----------



## yello (4 Apr 2013)

I don't know what that means. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to voice it. Is that the same as an "official stance"?


----------



## Buddfox (4 Apr 2013)

And who are the locals?


----------



## Radchenister (4 Apr 2013)

I'm never sure, give me a clue how to spot them?


----------



## raindog (4 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I'm never sure, give me a clue how to spot them?


You're the one who mentioned them. Why don't you give _us_ a clue how to spot them?


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

yello said:


> ld's question is robust but a fair one. FM can, and no doubt will, comment for himself.
> 
> But personally I would say that I don't think FM's comment "Sagan can do what he likes as long as rides as awesomely as he does" can be fairly taken to include the bum pinching. I'm quite sure FM didn't envisage that and indeed has subsequently stated his disapproval.


As FM bangs on about the empowering of women and the importance of role models in other parts of the forum, I would have expected him to have stated his disapproval more robustly. Of course as he likes Sagan as a rider this may have clouded his judgement. Much as millions were hoodwinked with ....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (4 Apr 2013)

The guy is 23. He is going to make mistakes and he is going to regret making them! He will hopefully learn. 

No one is condoning what Sagan done but imo there is a lot of overreaction. I mean he got the girls number didn't he? 

On a more serious note, would there be such outrage is a female did the same to a man? Or if it was same sex? Why is it so much worse when a man does it to a female? 

How many guys have been out in their kilt and have had woman groping at them from all angles in an attempt to see if they are a "true Scot"? It takes more than one hand to count the amount of times a member of the female persuasion has lifted my kilt. All fun and games apparently because it's the other way about. 

Any guys tried lifting a girls skirt up to see the reaction?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Apr 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Care to comment on this statement in light of recent events ? Or maybe the 9 others that liked it might ?


 
Shall I make this very clear for you, since you appear to think you've discovered some amazing contradiction:

1. That statement was about his cycling;
2. I do not approve of or condone in any way, oppressive behaviour towards women, whether it be 'in fun' or intended as aggressive.
3. Sagan has apologised. If the apology is (or has been) accepted by the woman concerned, then that's it - it is up to her to make a decision on what to do, and not ours to second guess. I would support her in whatever decision she makes, as a matter of principle.


----------



## Buddfox (4 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> The guy is 23. He is going to make mistakes and he is going to regret making them! He will hopefully learn.
> 
> No one is condoning what Sagan done but imo there is a lot of overreaction. I mean he got the girls number didn't he?
> 
> ...


 
This debate properly exists elsewhere in this forum, but I'm afraid I'll bite (a little) and then leave it.

Would there be the same level of outrage? I am sure there would: the victor's podium of a serious sporting event is no place for that kind of behaviour, and it goes without saying that sexual harrassment (which is what this was) has no place anywhere. If it was a Scot in a kilt (to use your specific example) and a woman lifted it, there would I am sure be a similar level of condonement.

In this day and age, I'd like to think that no-one is still asking the question "Why is it so much worse when a man does it to a female?". This should be self evident, but the substantial wall of data and studies examining the prevelance of sexism, sexual assault and rape which in the vast majority of cases have a woman as the victim should be reason enough to realise why it is worse. Men are rarely the victims in these scenarios.

How many times have men been out in their kilt and had it lifted? No doubt a great number, and that is regrettable. But it pales into comparison when compared to the number of women who are harrassed daily on our streets: wolf whistling, name calling - and then being insulted when they ignore it. Who are groped and assaulted not only in night clubs, but also on public transaport, in the workplace and generally going about their everyday lives, all because seemingly men think that it is acceptable behaviour. And that is before even considering the far worse incidences such as rape.

The good that will come of this incident (hopefully) is that a good number of young cyclists are learning that groping a woman's bum is not acceptable behaviour - and I give credit for Sagan apologising so promptly after the incident. One only hopes that young cyclists are not coming away with the message that it is just playful behaviour - it is not.


----------



## Radchenister (4 Apr 2013)

IYHO.


----------



## ColinJ (4 Apr 2013)

I think what he did was wrong and stupid.

I admit to being young and stupid myself once so I'll forgive him as long as he attends an accelerated growing-up programme and stops doing that kind of thing!

About 25 years ago I was walking through the centre of Hebden Bridge with my girlfriend on a busy summer day. She had a sudden moment of madness and pulled down my shorts without warning; I wasn't wearing anything under them. The filthy looks she got from me and the startled onlookers made her realise how stupid she had been. I'm quite sure that she would have been extremely upset if I'd done the same thing to her, but there you go. 

People make mistakes. As long as they aren't the kind of mistakes made by the evil Philpott with his kids, then forgive them and move on. 

Don't be quite so forgiving if they make similar mistakes again though!


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Shall I make this very clear for you, since you appear to think you've discovered some amazing contradiction:
> 
> 1. That statement was about his cycling;
> 2. I do not approve of or condone in any way, oppressive behaviour towards women, whether it be 'in fun' or intended as aggressive.
> 3. Sagan has apologised. If the apology is (or has been) accepted by the woman concerned, then that's it - it is up to her to make a decision on what to do, and not ours to second guess. I would support her in whatever decision she makes, as a matter of principle.


 Your position has been noted, for future reference


----------



## BJH (4 Apr 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Hindsight ? Some of the regulars maybe along (but im not holding out much hope !) to inform you of my opinion of Sagan.
> Oh and your post is comment enough ta.


 
Really pleased for you that he has played into your hands with his podium antics.

Yes he acted like total tw4t, no he shouldn't have done it and whether he got the girls number is irrelevant.

Hopefully I have made myself clear on his behaviour.

So what exactly is it that you don't like about him as a very very talented rider?


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

BJH said:


> Really pleased for you that he has played into your hands with his podium antics.
> 
> Yes he acted like total tw4t, no he shouldn't have done it and whether he got the girls number is irrelevant.
> 
> ...


 I would think that is fairly evident wouldn't you ?


----------



## BJH (4 Apr 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I would think that is fairly evident wouldn't you ?


 
No, because you didn't like him before his Benny Hill act


----------



## lukesdad (4 Apr 2013)

BJH said:


> No, because you didn't like him before his Benny Hill act


The 'Benny Hill' act has been going on for some time, you either havn t noticed or disregarded it.


----------



## smutchin (4 Apr 2013)

lukesdad said:


> The 'Benny Hill' act has been going on for some time, you either havn t noticed or disregarded it.



If a young woman invites you to sign her breasts, that's a slightly different matter. It may be in questionable taste but it's not sexual harassment. The bum pinch was unsolicited. That's the difference.

Edit: I've just checked and in fact it seems she may not have asked him to sign her breasts, in which case it's a pretty outrageous thing to do. He needs some serious battering with the clue stick.


----------



## BJH (6 Apr 2013)

Not a case of hadn't noticed or disregarding his behaviour, just a case of not being there to know exactly what he has or hasn't done.

I don't take what the media says for granted as truth. I used an example earlier in this thread in which cycling news were claiming Sagan had said it was his destiny to win Flanders when it wasn't true from their own previous article.

This thread started out as a discussion on his riding talent.

Sadly like a lot of other sports, being a star and having access to large amounts of cash at a young age can result in a lot of stupidity.


----------



## ayceejay (6 Apr 2013)

Having "trophy" women awarding the winners at any event is seriously outdated and even sexist, there should be no place for it in a sport that is trying to improve its public image. I know this may not be popular but what if it was this anachronism that Sagan was parodying in his theatrical gesture?


----------



## raindog (6 Apr 2013)

ayceejay said:


> I know this may not be popular but what if it was this anachronism that Sagan was parodying in his theatrical gesture?


You mean he did it to make a point about sexism? That's edgy stuff. And everyone thought he was just groping her backside.


----------



## Radchenister (6 Apr 2013)

ayceejay said:


> ... I know this may not be popular but what if it was this anachronism that Sagan was parodying in his theatrical gesture?


 
Oh I see, Sagan is a post-modern new age intellectual undertaking an ironic pastiche social critique by miming the role of an eastern European misogynist.


----------



## yello (6 Apr 2013)

I think I suggested that pages ago. Admittedly, I didn't make it sound quite so clever... maybe that's where I went wrong


----------



## Paragan (9 Apr 2013)

Now Jane Aubrey needs to probably write another article.(sorry it is on Slovak language)girl saidodium guy was very surprised and didn't know what's going on)
http://sportky.topky.sk//c/105621/s...oficyklistka-zopakovala-jeho-sexisticke-gesto


----------



## Radchenister (9 Apr 2013)

If anyone thinks this is funny - remember, IT IS NOT.

I'm not sure my outrage valve can take much more of this ... off for a lie down.


----------



## Hip Priest (9 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> 1. That statement was about his cycling.



I've done nothing but praise Sagan's cycling in this thread, and yet you saw fit to ridicule my viewpoint, so it can't just have been about his cycling! Can we just agree that those of us who felt his sense of humour seemed a bit naff have been vindicated?


----------



## Paragan (10 Apr 2013)

Third time together=flowers,hm if he gets podium today I guess is time for asking going for dinner or is it still too early?
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/130410_Sagan_bloemen


----------



## Radchenister (10 Apr 2013)

He wouldn't give me flowers if he pinched my ... oh never mind  !


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 Apr 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I've done nothing but praise Sagan's cycling in this thread, and yet you saw fit to ridicule my viewpoint, so it can't just have been about his cycling! Can we just agree that those of us who felt his sense of humour seemed a bit naff have been vindicated?


 
Your claim that I "saw fit to ridicule your viewpoint" surprised me so I went back and read the thread. Apart from you agreeing with me on the first page (about what Cav said), we had a perfectly polite interaction around posts 50-60, and certainly I have never directly ridiculed your viewpoint. So I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you might want to reconsider your accusation?


----------



## Paragan (10 Apr 2013)

Flowers:
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NiXJ1i-1Hko#

and victory:http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...013/uci-world-calendar&id=Uib7azejZbA&yr=2013
When Chavanell start to racing all lime green jerseys moved from front peloton to back. Probably they just took nice tea break b/c was around 5pm CET and I hope with some nice biscuits.


----------



## raindog (10 Apr 2013)

ain't that sweet?


----------



## Radchenister (10 Apr 2013)

Right, that's it, I'm writing to the UCI and my MP - appalling behaviour, those girls have seriously crossed the line this time, that's twice in two weeks!


----------



## Paragan (10 Apr 2013)

This time hands are up))))))))))))


----------



## BJH (10 Apr 2013)

Paragan said:


> This time hands are up))))))))))))


 
He could be faking with false hands, we know how devious he is !!!


----------



## Paragan (10 Apr 2013)

Hi BJH,
Yes you are right and he showed that to Gilbert today as well but I like them both so I am happy for them and can not wait for Sunday.
Actually how was your day today?Did you have puncture in a tyre or are you behind your yearly miles target?


----------



## Radchenister (18 Apr 2013)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eplbDbp6XJQ


----------



## Sterba (25 Apr 2013)

We are lucky to have such interesting superstars in cycling today. Armdope and his generation were such dreary characters, grim and self-righteous. It was an angry time in the sport while they were in charge. We need funny, cheerful riders who have something outrageous to say for themselves. They can be relaxed because they have nothing to fear or to hide. Go to it Sagan, dance across the finishing line, a winner in every way.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jun 2013)




----------



## zizou (21 Jun 2013)

Thats just ridiculous  when i grow up I want to be Peter Sagan!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jun 2013)

zizou said:


> Thats just ridiculous  when i grow up I want to be Peter Sagan!


Me too but when I grow younger


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jun 2013)

I just want to be Peter Sagan!!!!! 

That's it. I am away to try and wheelie then jump up to the roof rack. If i am not back in 15 minutes assume i am somehwere between the bonnet and the windscreen - at best.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I just want to be Peter Sagan!!!!!
> 
> That's it. I am away to try and wheelie then jump up to the roof rack. If i am not back in 15 minutes assume i am somehwere between the bonnet and the windscreen - at best.


Maybe I should warn you: the last time I went over a bonnet the bike stayed on the ground....


----------



## Radchenister (21 Jun 2013)

That's no way to treat a hire car.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jun 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Maybe I should warn you: the last time I went over a bonnet the bike stayed on the ground....


Can't be that hard! Just lift the front wheel and do a bunny hop, kind of thingy. Right? 

I'll keep you posted..........


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Can't be that hard! Just lift the front wheel and do a bunny hop, kind of thingy. Right?
> 
> I'll keep you posted..........


Yebbut I was braking hard and all the bike's weight was on the front wheel. The next time I hit an oncoming vehicle, I'll do the bunnyhop trick thing, right? What could possibly go wrong.?


----------



## gaz (21 Jun 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Can't be that hard! Just lift the front wheel and do a bunny hop, kind of thingy. Right?
> 
> I'll keep you posted..........


sounds easy, hold my beer...


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Jun 2013)

Arrogant displays won't endear him to people, but I doubt he cares about that... he postures like he thinks he's God's Gift. I prefer respect and humility to shine through celebrations. People like to see prats fall harder.


----------



## Rob3rt (22 Jun 2013)




----------



## dragon72 (22 Jun 2013)

I think he is actually endearing himself to a lot of people with his "arrogant" displays. That onto-the-roof trick was fantastic. Good on you Sagan. I wouldn't even get one wheel up, let alone two. Plus if I got on the roof, I'd be slipping around all over the place. His victory celebrations are funny. Okay, podiumgirl-gate crossed a line and he, rightly, apologised for that. 

But I don't buy into this "respect" argument put forward by some people. If you feel that a winner pulling a wheely or doing a "Run Forrest Run!" with his arms while he crosses the line ahead of you is too much to bear, then you shouldn't be in competitive sports. I'm sure Sagan wouldn't give a flying toss if someone who beat him took the piss.


----------



## zizou (22 Jun 2013)

I dont see it as arrogant - its him having fun on his bike and if he wasnt a pro he'd be doing this sort of stuff with his mates for a laugh.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jun 2013)

In my humble opinion, he's a great athlete with great potential who has got himself filmed having fun on a bike. I can't see an issue with that. He ticks my sport and fun boxes.


----------



## redcard (22 Jun 2013)

zizou said:


> I dont see it as arrogant - its him having fun on his bike and if he wasnt a pro he'd be doing this sort of stuff with his mates for a laugh.


 

Doing what? Making videos and putting them on Youtube? 

What a character!


----------



## redcard (22 Jun 2013)

Archie_tect said:


> Arrogant displays won't endear him to people, but I doubt he cares about that... he postures like he thinks he's God's Gift. I prefer respect and humility to shine through celebrations. People like to see prats fall harder.


 

People are desperate to be associated with anyone who has had a bit of success / publicity, no matter how much of a pillock they are.

Little girls adore adore Jordan, grown men choose Peter Sagan.


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Jun 2013)

redcard said:


> Little girls adore adore Jordan, grown men choose Peter Sagan.


 
 You might have got those the wrong way round.... for deluded people.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jun 2013)

If Danny Macaskill does these things then he's genius! Sagan does it and he's arrogant and a pillock. 

Lets not forget that Sagan is also a huge talent. Most immense talents in sport have character. Some see them as flaws, others see them as personality.


----------



## hobbitonabike (22 Jun 2013)

redcard said:


> People are desperate to be associated with anyone who has had a bit of success / publicity, no matter how much of a pillock they are.
> 
> Little girls adore adore Jordan, grown men choose Peter Sagan.



I am neither a little girl or a grown man...I am a small woman lol...I really like Sagan. He enjoys what he does and has a bit of fun. Too many people take life waaaay to seriously and suck all the joy out of life IMHO. Don't like him...don't watch him...simples.


----------



## VamP (22 Jun 2013)

EbonyWillow said:


> I am neither a little girl or a grown man...I am a small woman lol...I really like Sagan. He enjoys what he does and has a bit of fun. Too many people take life waaaay to seriously and suck all the joy out of life IMHO. *Don't like him...don't watch him..*.simples.


 
That's not as simple as that - the pesky Slovak has a habit of appearing first in finishing shots!


----------



## hobbitonabike (22 Jun 2013)

VamP said:


> That's not as simple as that - the pesky Slovak has a habit of appearing first in finishing shots!



Lol true!!!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2559010, member: 30090"]Eh? One is a trials bike rider and the other is a roadie.

Not disagreeing with you wrt to the other point about Sagan, but please don't take things out of context.[/quote]
One rides a bike and the other rides erm.......a bike. Both entertainers. Both highly talented. Both big names in the sport. 

Out of context? Nah.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2559225, member: 30090"] Is riding a trials bike the same as riding a road bike?[/quote]
They are both push bikes. They are both cyclists. Not grasping the problem.


----------



## Milzy (21 Jul 2013)

I'd not say arrogant, but if he was, he has every right to be. I don't think he really cares what people on cycle chat think of him. You could say Cav used to be arrogant but the manx missile can never beat Kittel in a sprint anymore.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

Milzy said:


> You could say Cav used to be arrogant but the manx missile can never beat Kittel in a sprint anymore.


 
Cav on twitter earlier this tour was congratulating Kittle on winning a stage and called him the next big thing, is this arrogance?
This tour Cav had urine thrown over him by a spectator, did he kick up fuss to the organizers or press, nope he remained a dignified silence, perhaps this is arrogance?
Cav recently took his 100 win which makes him one of the most successful sprinters ever, was there a pre longed wheely, was there a forrest gump running gesture suggesting others keep up, perhaps a quick grope of a podium girl would have been an appropriate way to celebrate?
Kittel is something special, but I would think and hope we see some great fights between them, and I expect Cav to win some. I have no doubt though they will respect one another.

Your right though I doubt Saggy cares what people on cycle chat think of him, or what anyone else thinks of him for that matter. But under no circumstances would Cav think it was appropriate to cop a feel of a podium girl, if its not unwavering self belief and arrogance which made Saggy think that was OK to do without asking then its something far more worse.


----------



## Radchenister (21 Jul 2013)

When you speak in a room of people, how quickly do they switch off  ?


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

Radchenister said:


> When you speak in a room of people, how quickly do they switch off  ?


 

Not to quickly because most people pay a lot to listen to me rattle on, you get it for nothing


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Cav on twitter earlier this tour was congratulating Kittle on winning a stage and called him the next big thing, is this arrogance?
> This tour Cav had urine thrown over him by a spectator, did he kick up fuss to the organizers or press, nope he remained a dignified silence, perhaps this is arrogance?
> Cav recently took his 100 win which makes him one of the most successful sprinters ever, was there a pre longed wheely, was there a forrest gump running gesture suggesting others keep up, perhaps a quick grope of a podium girl would have been an appropriate way to celebrate?
> Kittel is something special, but I would think and hope we see some great fights between them, and I expect Cav to win some. I have no doubt though they will respect one another.
> ...


Cav is, in my eyes, a legend. No doubt. Many others will agree. Some may disagree. Being in the public eye can have that effect. 

Sagan isn't just some Anna Kournikova of the cycling world though. He is proper talented, seriously gifted in comparison to the majority of the peloton. His actions may not appeal to everyone, but for one person who dislikes him 2 more appear to like him. 
Shouts of "wheelie wheelie wheelie" as he went past, twice, on Alpe D'Huez show what he is to the cycling world right now. Lets not forget he did oblige. He put on a show. 

He also won the green jersey and he made it look pretty easy too.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (21 Jul 2013)

I'm not disputing his talent, Saggy has incredible talent, but humble he is not... He is someone I respect greatly but am unable to admire due to the way he conducts himself, he does seem to be getting better though and more self aware so it could simply be the mistakes of a young man in the public eye. I hope so because right now the conversation is as much about his attitude as his talent which is very disappointing.

This year I felt that not only did he ride more intelligently and like a champion, but he acted in a manner more akin to one also.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I'm not disputing his talent, Saggy has incredible talent, but humble he is not... He is someone I respect greatly but am unable to admire due to the way he conducts himself, he does seem to be getting better though and more self aware so it could simply be the mistakes of a young man in the public eye. I hope so because right now the conversation is as much about his attitude as his talent which is very disappointing.
> 
> This year I felt that not only did he ride more intelligently and like a champion, but he acted in a manner more akin to one also.


 
Exactly. I wish he would keep what he does on the road - including the wheelies, the funny celebrations, all of that. He is an amazing rider to watch and on the road, he can do what he likes so long as it doesn't endanger anyone else. What he shouldn't do, is think that anything goes, anywhere. He'll probably get this eventually. If not, he may end up in a rather less than happy place.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Your right though I doubt Saggy cares what people on cycle chat think of him, or what anyone else thinks of him for that matter. But under no circumstances would Cav think it was appropriate to cop a feel of a podium girl, if its not unwavering self belief and arrogance which made Saggy think that was OK to do without asking then its something far more worse.


 
Some people have short memories... Cav was often called out for his arrogance in the early days of his career - OK, so he never groped a podium girl, but don't forget that he was once chucked off the Tour de Romandie for an inappropriate celebration.

I never held Cav's youthful exuberance against him then, and I don't hold Sagan's against him now. He'll settle down in time, just as Cav has done.


----------



## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

I don't expect the guy to be humble. If I had a smidgin of his ability, I wouldn't be humble, I'd be out shouting about it.

Yes, pinching a podium girl is out of order but he will grow up. The stuff he does while actually still on a bike is entertaining and fun. As someone above said, some people take life way too seriously. Wish I could pull a wheelie let alone a wheelie on L'Alpe d'Huez. Well Jell as I believe they say nowadays.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> but don't forget that he was once chucked off the Tour de Romandie for an inappropriate celebration.
> 
> I never held Cav's youthful exuberance against him then, and I don't hold Sagan's against him now. He'll settle down in time, just as Cav has done.


 
And Cav was one year older than Sagan is now. 2010 he was 24.

Lets just sit back and enjoy the "Sagan era" without too much judgement.


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Lets just sit back and enjoy the "Sagan era" without too much judgement.


 
If he wants green jerseys that is well and good but I think with Kittel, Cav & Greipel around it won't be spectacular stage wins that he will accumulate. Classics he should get better at. Not sure this will be remembered as an era of Saga dominance really - in tour terms, it kind of depends on how Prudhomme chooses a parcours for 2014.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> If he wants green jerseys that is well and good but I think with Kittel, Cav & Greipel around it won't be spectacular stage wins that he will accumulate. Classics he should get better at.


 
He should model himself on Sean Kelly.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> If he wants green jerseys that is well and good but I think with Kittel, Cav & Greipel around it won't be spectacular stage wins that he will accumulate. Classics he should get better at. Not sure this will be remembered as an era of Saga dominance really - in tour terms, it kind of depends on how Prudhomme chooses a parcours for 2014.


Yeh i was just having a laugh, quoting what magazines and the TDF commentators have been saying.
Very few riders have dominated enough to call it their "era". Merckx, Hinault, Armstrong maybe, but these guys were all GC contenders. Merckx would also win the classics which truly showed the dominant force he was. 
Sagan has shown that he will be a formidable classics rider. His 2013 classics season has been an impressive one indeed but he is no Eddie Merckx. Now i don't mean that as in he isn't as good a bike rider. That would be impossible to compare. What i mean is that he won't be as dominant as Merckx was in GC and classics. Sagan will have to pick one and focus on it. For my money he will become a hybrid of both worlds and neither a specialist of either. Maybe a bit like EBH promised but could never really deliver.
One thing i am sure of though is that he will win the majority of the classics and many Green jerseys from the 3 Grand tours.
Maybe the "Sagan dominance" will sit better with most.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (22 Jul 2013)

If by inappropriate celebration you mean the 'V' sign directed at the press who had been critical of him during the Tour de Romanie he was not chucked of the event, I believe he was withdrawn by his team HTC highroad. Or is there another act I am not aware off?
Not Cavendish's greatest moment I must admit though.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> he was not chucked of the event, I believe he was withdrawn by his team HTC highroad.


 
Yes, come to think of it, I think you're _technically_ right on that...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> If he wants green jerseys that is well and good but I think with Kittel, Cav & Greipel around it won't be spectacular stage wins that he will accumulate. Classics he should get better at. Not sure this will be remembered as an era of Saga dominance really - in tour terms, it kind of depends on how Prudhomme chooses a parcours for 2014.


Are you expecting more courses to suit the pure sprinters or fewer intermediate sprint points - Sagan does seem to have aggregated more points over a wider range of courses without being the fastest?


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Are you expecting more courses to suit the pure sprinters or fewer intermediate sprint points - Sagan does seem to have aggregated more points over a wider range of courses without being the fastest?


There won't be as much climbing I think - somewhere between last year and this. It will give Sagan the chance to go for lumpy stages more so at which he'll excel but for the rest he'll be a high place accumulator that wins the points jerseys he goes for.

I just don't see him as dominant in the way Cav was with more stage wins than you could shake a stick at in the TdF. He has a fantastic talent but really there are a good few other sprinters now that are better than him. This year he didn't crack the classics like people thought he would. I'm sure he will get those results in due course but I'm not sure they will come with the ease people think.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

It's about consistency rather than number of wins though, isn't it?

Erik Zabel was never a prolific stage winner (12 Tour stages in total) but took the green jersey six* times. He only won one stage when he took the green jersey in 2000 but was in the top 3 seven times, and won no stages in 1999 but was in the top 8 ten times. On this Tour, Sagan was in the top four nine times. Sean Kelly likewise - Sagan is already only one stage win off matching Kelly's total of 5.

Given that Sagan is still only 23, I think Zabel's record might well be under threat. He certainly looks likely to beat Kelly's four green jerseys, and I believe will go on to emulate Kelly in other ways - in the classics and maybe even in the GC eventually.


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's about consistency rather than number of wins though, isn't it?


Yes but my point is that to label consistent accumulation of points in grand tours as being dominant is somehow a bit one-eyed - clearly in coming 2nd, 3rd, 4'th a lot, you have come in behind some other people. Cav dominated sprint finishes but won the green jersey once.

Edit : So what Sagan & Cannondale did succeed at yesterday was screwing up the OPQS train at a critical point. By sticking a rider behind Trentin but in front of Steegmans, they created indecision and an opportunity for Argos to steam into a strong position. Trentin & the Cannondale guy hardly did anything on the front but did leave Steegmans exposed earlier than appropriate and Cav less well placed. It's all part of the game but it seemed Sagan was there for the sake of keeping up appearances in that sprint, rather than with the unequivocal backing of his team to win it.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> There won't be as much climbing I think - somewhere between last year and this. It will give Sagan the chance to go for lumpy stages more so at which he'll excel but for the rest he'll be a high place accumulator that wins the points jerseys he goes for.
> 
> I just don't see him as dominant in the way Cav was with more stage wins than you could shake a stick at in the TdF. He has a fantastic talent but really there are a good few other sprinters now that are better than him. This year he didn't crack the classics like people thought he would. I'm sure he will get those results in due course but I'm not sure they will come with the ease people think.


 

I do agree he is not the best sprinter but i believe he is reportedly working on his climbing and not so much his sprinting. He seems to have lost a slight edge in the sprints imo. 

Regarding the Classics i would have to say that it's very high praise indeed that he has not been successful in 2013, given that he has placed so highly. See here on the mans reaction to his 2013 classics campaign. 

A quick summary hardly reads as an unsuccessful campaign - such is the expectancy on the young Slovak that we consider his results poorer than predicted.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2013)

Confirmed to be doing the event in London on 4th August, for those that want to see him live...


----------



## thom (22 Jul 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I
> A quick summary hardly reads as an unsuccessful campaign - such is the expectancy on the young Slovak that we consider his results poorer than predicted.


This is success but it is not the same as dominance though - this is my point.
For me, Ciolek's win of San Remo will linger longer in the memory than any particular thing that Sagan won this year (admittedly partly because he managed to outfox the pre-race favourite of Sagan himself...).


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

thom said:


> Yes but my point is that to label consistent accumulation of points in grand tours as being dominant is somehow a bit one-eyed - clearly in coming 2nd, 3rd, 4'th a lot, you have come in behind some other people. Cav dominated sprint finishes but won the green jersey once.


 
Sure. I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just looking at it a slightly different way - he won't dominate the bunch sprints but he could well dominate the green jersey competition for a few years to come.

The stats don't tell the whole story either - the Strade Bianche this year being a brilliant example. That was a tactically perfect race by Cannondale and the way Sagan took 2nd place behind his team-mate was in its own way as memorable as Ciolek's win at MSR. I'd agree that he does need to add one or two Monuments to his palmares before he can be considered the finished article though. There's still the Giro di Lombardia and maybe even the Worlds left this season for him to aim at...


----------



## lay (23 Jul 2013)

I love his interviews - as entertaining as Sean Kelly speaking


----------



## Radchenister (26 Jul 2013)

'Unluck' is a new term in this house  .


----------



## LutherB (26 Aug 2013)

More tricks:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDMhKHlEIA&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (26 Aug 2013)

I'd get up the first two steps then lose balance and fall flat on my face. 

Still want to try it though. Like the no handed wheelie.


----------



## Milzy (26 Aug 2013)

LutherB said:


> More tricks:
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDMhKHlEIA&feature=youtu.be




my 8 year old Nephew can do that.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (26 Aug 2013)

Milzy said:


> my 8 year old Nephew can do that.


On a road bike? Talented kid.


----------



## Milzy (26 Aug 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> On a road bike? Talented kid.


 
Ok not a road bike & not as deep steps but he's 8.


----------



## BJH (26 Aug 2013)

His green jersey wins need to be seen in the context ofthe current rules. In his position under current rules he wold be nuts not to go for the green at the Tour as its set up for him.

I suspect if he wins it again next year we will see a revision of the rules again in favour of pure sprinters who win most stages - the last change almost had a a slight odour of avoiding Cav winning time after time. Changing back to this set up would see lots of competition potentially given Greipel and Kittel current showing and the willingness of teams to go the spri train route.

He is a still a kid who is enjoying himself I would love to see a Brit potential classics rider like him on the scene. He is a fantastic rider who will figure in the monuments even more so when he gets a little older.


----------



## Hont (9 Sep 2013)

I think the main thing that Sagan will accumulate as he gets older is embarassment...

https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/376857771292884992/photo/1


----------



## Kies (9 Sep 2013)

Nothing he has done is really embarrassing.
Good for the sport i say


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2013)

Kies said:


> Nothing he has done is really embarrassing.
> Good for the sport i say


Er, groping podium girls...?


----------



## Kies (9 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Er, groping podium girls...?




A young man in the spotlight. Im sure many a man has pinched a girls bottom throughout the ages. 
And no i havn't


----------



## Milzy (9 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Er, groping podium girls...?


That is really cool. Where the hell do you come from? I'm sure The podium girls would rather it be him more than about 200 of the others!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2013)

Milzy said:


> That is really cool. Where the hell do you come from? I'm sure The podium girls would rather it be him more than about 200 of the others!


The 1950s. Wasn't cool back then.


----------



## zizou (9 Sep 2013)

Hont said:


> I think the main thing that Sagan will accumulate as he gets older is embarassment...
> 
> https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/376857771292884992/photo/1



No way, that white cowboy hat and the cyling kit is awesome! 

Could be straight out of American Flyers, the best bad film ever!


----------



## Hont (9 Sep 2013)

Milzy said:


> I'm sure The podium girls would rather it be him more than about 200 of the others!



I'm pretty sure that they would prefer to not be molested by anyone.


----------



## Kies (9 Sep 2013)

Hont said:


> I'm pretty sure that they would prefer to not be molested by anyone.



Molested?

Podium model, knows she is there as eye candy. That pic goes round the world because he pinched her bottom and may well land her bigger assignments!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Sep 2013)

Kies said:


> Molested?
> 
> Podium model, knows she is there as eye candy. That pic goes round the world because he pinched her bottom and may well land her bigger assignments!


Yes, molested. She's not finger candy.


----------



## Kies (9 Sep 2013)

I didn't say she was, nor do I condone his actions, but in the scheme of things - a non event.


----------



## LutherB (9 Sep 2013)

Well she wasn't happy about it and he bought her a bunch of flowers to apologise, which she accepted. He's not history's greatest monster, just a very naughty boy.


----------



## Peteaud (9 Sep 2013)

Sagan has made mistakes but on the scheme of things i like him.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Sep 2013)

All of the popping wheelies, skidding across finish lines, wearing white cowboy hats makes us remember his name. So when he's riding for Team X which has Brand Y's bikes, we see him on those bikes and think "that's a tasty looking bike, I wouldn't mind one of those", we might not realise it but he will have impacted some of our(the public, not cyclechat) choices of bikes. All of the showmanship gets his face, and the brands, on the TV for us punters - the latter is why he is paid to ride the bike. 

Frankly, I quite like him. He does stuff I could never dream of (wheelies etc), won the Green Jersey by playing the game and to top it all off he dyed his goatee and hair green for the final stage of The Tour. He's going to win everything and I don't mind watching him do so.


----------



## Hont (10 Sep 2013)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> we might not realise it but he will have impacted some of our(the public, not cyclechat) choices of bikes.



That works both ways. I've never considered even looking at a Trek and have tried to talk others out of it too, because of a certain rider's association with them, even before the truth came out.


----------



## Milzy (10 Sep 2013)

Hont said:


> That works both ways. I've never considered even looking at a Trek and have tried to talk others out of it too, because of a certain rider's association with them, even before the truth came out.


Good point, I'd never buy a Trek, overpriced uninviting bikes IMO.


----------



## dragon72 (11 Sep 2013)

Hont said:


> That works both ways. I've never considered even looking at a Trek and have tried to talk others out of it too, because of a certain rider's association with them, even before the truth came out.


I know you're not asking me, but that's pretty churlish and petty, if you ask me.


----------



## Hont (11 Sep 2013)

Not considering how Trek treated Greg Lemond on Armstrong's say so. Those were not the actions of a principled company. If we don't vote with our cash then corporations will continue to behave without principles. It wasn't just because Armstrong was riding the bikes, the relationship was far deeper than that.


----------



## dragon72 (12 Sep 2013)

Hont said:


> Not considering how Trek treated Greg Lemond on Armstrong's say so. Those were not the actions of a principled company. If we don't vote with our cash then corporations will continue to behave without principles. It wasn't just because Armstrong was riding the bikes, the relationship was far deeper than that.


Fair enough. In that case I agree with you.


----------



## laurence (15 Sep 2013)

that win was pretty brilliant


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Sep 2013)

laurence said:


> that win was pretty brilliant


shoot, i know what race he was in but i planned on watching it tomorrow.


----------



## ColinJ (15 Sep 2013)

laurence said:


> that win was pretty brilliant


Sure was!


Pedrosanchezo said:


> s***, i know what race he was in but i planned on watching it tomorrow.


Bad luck, but think that is one time when the spoiler convention doesn't apply!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (15 Sep 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Sure was!
> 
> Bad luck, but think that is one time when the spoiler convention doesn't apply!


I'll still watch tomorrow morning. From 25k on, golden rule.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 Sep 2013)

Just watched it. Sagan impressive as ever. A handful of riders who can do that and hold off the pack.


----------



## Noodley (16 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> I know you're not asking me, but that's pretty churlish and petty, if you ask me.


 

I also refuse to buy Armstrong-associated products: Trek, Bontrager, Stingerz, SRAM are all on my banned list


----------

