# Delta trike rebuilt



## Bad Machine (9 Nov 2019)

Latest update: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/delta-trike-rebuilt.254873/post-6123240

Start Page - here.

I'm planning the winter project - I have half a Hase Kettwiesel (....yeah, it's a long story !), and need to find replacements for parts missing.







Threadless, or threaded headset - any reason to go one-way or the other ?

I'm going to be working from front to the back, so first of all: Front headset and fork needed. The front boom has a head tube that's only 56mm tall, and the remnants of the previous owner's headset suggest a 1" threaded fork.

I'm thinking there's no need to insert a quill stem into the fork tube (the fork will be turned by either brazing a steerer arm to the left above the crown, as on older Hase trikes, or fabricating a lever arm to connect to the crown's brake/mudguard boss), so it really shouldn't matter what type of headset I use.

What makes it interesting is 1" forks for 20" wheels look to be threaded from 100-110mm above the crown, so I reckon I'll need to have additional thread cut into the chosen fork if I'm going to use a threaded headset.

Am I right to think choosing a 1" threadless headset would be simpler (I can just cut the fork at the required height) ?


----------



## voyager (9 Nov 2019)

Any good cycle shop with a thread cutting tool can extend the thread on the fork tube , you won't find any forks threaded down that far as upwrongs don't have short head tubes. 
Personally I don't like threadless forks but that is me. 
A headtube size die and stock is about £70 from eBay or the like .
Good luck , an interesting winter project in the making . 
With a change of thread name it would make an interesting rebuild story.
regards Emma


----------



## voyager (9 Nov 2019)

Can't see much of a problem, we welded a bracket onto a pair of bmx forks when we built a delta.
seat , fabricate from ply and cover or there is an interesting thread out there in interweb land on bending up tube to make a mesh seat. USS mount isva relatively easy job to fabricate from a alloy bmx clamp on stem . Few days work but little money .
Handlebars are the worst to source , we end up making our own.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (10 Nov 2019)

That looks like one of the newer aluminium frames... in which case the OEM forks use a “hiddenset” type headset, and I think the steerer is considerably larger than 1”. That’s not to say that you can’t add reducers to use a smaller headset, threaded or threadless... you can get reducers to go from 1 1/4” to 1 1/8” to 1”. Personally although I’ve always preferred threaded headsets it’s getting harder to get quality ones in 1” and I think I’d stick with 1 1/8”. The front wheel of a Kettwiesel is lightly laden but I think the bearings probably experience some unusual loadings for a bicycle headset as the trike doesn’t lean in bends.


----------



## Bad Machine (10 Nov 2019)

The boom is indeed aluminium, but the rear (in red) is steel. I'll retrieve the headset remnants tomorrow, and re-measure, but according to my notes, the head tube currently has races fitted, with the upper race having a (central) internal diameter of 26.4mm, and the lower race diameter at 26.3mm.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (10 Nov 2019)

If it’s a steel frame, is that a titanium boom then? That was an option originally (along with an all Ti frame, but I think they were prone to breaking...). I can see now that it’s not alu - the arrangement of tubes around the rear axle is different, it was that boss in the top arch which threw me. The boom won’t be a retrofit from a later model as the newer machines use a much bigger tube (60mm diameter, I think)

Sound like a 1” headset is required from your account, Velo Orange make some threaded quality ones but Tange is just as serviceable. 1” threadless headsets are pretty rare but do exist (Mouton TSRs use them)


----------



## Bad Machine (10 Nov 2019)

Any ideas on how would you tell the difference between a titanium boom and one made of aluminium ? Knowing that this Kett was originally configured as a handcycle maybe no help, unless Hase only used titanium on the handcycle variant.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (10 Nov 2019)

From what I can see online the handcycle variant was a bolt on attachment and used the basic frame; someone might know the actual weights of the booms, the only thing a brief Google turned up was that Ti was 1lb lighter than Al. I suppose with scales and a bath you could work out the density and guess from there...


----------



## Bad Machine (10 Nov 2019)

Acutal weight of titanium boom - 780g (there's one on well known auction site at the moment: link

(Not that it'll be allowed anywhere near scales sensitive enough to weigh it accurately, for the moment.......)


----------



## Bad Machine (11 Nov 2019)

I've given them a quick clean up, and think I may well have a complete headset. All were together on a zip tie, but they were in the wrong order - so I've laid them out in the photo below, my best guess at what should work. I was pleasantly surprised to spot what I think is the crown race ? (top left)






Measurements - the ID of the crown race averaged at 26.4mm, and the ID of the notched spacer (last but one, bottom right) in the upper assembly averaged at 25.5.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (14 Nov 2019)

Looks like it’s a 1” headset to me...


----------



## Bad Machine (23 Nov 2019)

Shaun, our postman, delivered three parcels this week whilst I was working away from home. My daughter correctly guessed they
were all destined for the shed.






I can re-use the 1" headset components that came with the frame; I had contacted the seller of the new fork before ordering to ask about the length of thread on the steerer, and had made enquiries with my local bike shop about cutting additional thread to suit. Sadly, they no longer can. Rather than chase up some other LBS further away, I researched what I'd need to do it myself.






A quick check on what's going to be needed next - now I just need to wait until I've got some time at home.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (24 Nov 2019)

You could always use 1” headset spacers to take up the slack, between the bearings and the top locknuts. At least until you know it’s all working.


----------



## Bad Machine (30 Nov 2019)

That's not a bad idea. I'm having to cut new thread onto the steerer, and then cut it to required length, so I've also wondered whether a steerer arm could be clamped onto the threaded headset, above the normal locknut, but below an additional locknut ? The groove on the fork tube will need to be redone anyway (I've a rather nice notched light bracket waiting in the wings), so would cutting a bigger notch on the last few mm of the fork tube allow me to use a notched steerer arm, set at 90 degrees to the fork ? 

Working away this week had me pondering how to do the USS set-up (enquiries to Oliver at London Recumbents drew a blank on Hase seat and steerer parts; I'd previously asked Kevin too, but he had warned me of the difficulty and likely costs involved, even if someone, somewhere had anything useful stashed away).

Latest revision uses two stauff-type clamps around the Kett boom, and a bespoke plate underneath to hold the USS axle (the top of the stauff clamps could be used as the forward mount for the seat)






Just two more weeks at work, then the fun can begin !


----------



## voyager (30 Nov 2019)

This was the last one we made for a tadpole with offset steering link . Two stock size ballraces are clamped either side of an internal nylon bush locked in position with a grub screw , a 12mm ht bolt will attach it through the boom with anticrush spacer.


----------



## voyager (30 Nov 2019)

Try ice for a seat, l got a damaged ( paintwork scratched ) frame less mesh for £30 , shiny new with mesh about £250 delivered iirc .


----------



## Bad Machine (5 Dec 2019)

OK, good idea. I won't count my chickens just yet, but one of the team at ICE now knows what I'm looking for.

I've decided that the simplest way to avoid drilling the Hase main boom is to mount seat and steerer bearing with Stauff-type clamps at right-angles. I can also try out different positions, more forward or back, to judge what would feel best.






Whilst there's not much actual progress with the build, the various components needed are turning up - I picked up a new, complete Magura HS33 hydraulic brake set for the front fork last week, for a tenner plus postage. With Julie on the rear rotors, and HS33 on the front rims, the Kett will have the same spec that's on the Lepus I've been riding.


----------



## Bad Machine (8 Dec 2019)

I got some "me" time this afternoon, putting it to good use by sorting through the contents of several boxes. Once done, there was enough space to do something useful - the first thing on my list: spreading the forks from 95mm to 100 OLD.



















I've got a nice Deore hub and a black rim to build up, but in the meantime I'll use this no-name silver wheel with a Big Apple on to gauge dimensions.


----------



## Bad Machine (18 Dec 2019)

I had to meet with the accountant today, to finalise the books for the year end; that being done, everything to do with work can now be put to bed. Later on, I spent a couple of hours split between sorting out in the shed and the garage, then onto a task completely new to me - using a die and stock to extend the threading on the fork tube. 

I think my average for the number of times I watch an online video of "how to" do something before actually going and trying it myself is three. But, I reckon this task may have upped the average, a bit.












I've still got to seat the crown race, and cut the groove into the fork tube - I'll not cut the tube until the steerer arm and light bracket have been fitted.


----------



## Bad Machine (22 Dec 2019)

*Good news *- parcel from ICE arrived this week, containing a Sprint seat frame (cosmetic damage only, but I had real difficulty finding any). As per Voyager's suggestion. I'll use an old mesh seat cover from an ICE Q to complete.

*Bad news* - the newly-threaded fork has a crown seat dimension of 27.2mm, but the headset crown race has i.d. of 26.3mm. Looks like I've successfuly spaced and threaded a JIS fork, only to find I'll need some more precise work to make it fit my ISO headset.


----------



## Bad Machine (26 Dec 2019)

Forks now with Cycle Clinic in Glemsford, awaiting milling. Hoping that Malcolm can get that done as soon as he's back to work after the holidays.

I've started on the Seat clamp / Boom / Steerer axis by cutting three aluminium plates ready for drilling - they'll lock the pipe clamps into right angles, and also secure the head of the 12mm bolt immediately below the main boom (the 12mm bolt will hold the steerer bearings).

My old ICE Q seat frame (with same dimensions as the new one) is securely held in place on the boom when all the nuts are tightened.


----------



## Bad Machine (29 Dec 2019)

Completed drilling the plates for the seat/boom/steerer mount; dremel and small hand files used to cut out the hex shape on plate 2 (which prevents the 12mm bolt head from turning). The dremel proved useful again with a router bit and stand, to remove a hex-shaped recess in the base of the paired stauff-clamps (recess accommodates the remaining height of bolt head above plate 2). Bolt lengths are currently too long. 











Whilst waiting for the fork, the front wheel can be built up (the new spokes arrived yesterday).


----------



## Bad Machine (1 Jan 2020)

Does anyone else here find wheelbuilding strangely relaxing ? Maybe it's the pattern repetition, maybe it's the fact that you only get to know if you've measured everything correctly right at the very end. So that's another thing crossed off the list - the shiny Deore hub, s/s spokes and black rim match the appearance of the rear two wheels. Tidy !


----------



## Bad Machine (10 Jan 2020)

I collected the forks from Malcolm at Cycle Clinic in Glemsford early this week, but due to a chesty cold, and feeling knackered after just one day at work, I left them untouched in the garage until this evening. 

The milling of the crown race from JIS to ISO needed tidying up, and then I had to work out how to cut two keyways into the threaded section of the steerer. 






With very much an improvised set up, I ended up with two straight-ish notches - the result is a steerer tube that will take the light bracket (notch at 180 degrees), and the steering arm (notch at 90 degrees).






The steerer arm doesn't need to be that big (it's an old heavy-duty light bracket), but metal off is always easier than the alternative .........
More tomorrow, I hope.


----------



## Bad Machine (11 Jan 2020)

At last - my Kettwiesel has three wheels.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (12 Jan 2020)

Looks good!👍


----------



## Andrew1971 (13 Jan 2020)

She'll be ready for summer. Good work
Andrew


----------



## Bad Machine (13 Jan 2020)

Here's the first attempt at putting both ICE seat frame and steerer assembly onto the Kettwiesel frame. What quickly becomes apparent is like this, the chain line between crank and rear cassette would run straight through the base of the seat, and its support.






More pleasing is seeing the new aluminium MTB handlebar working well with two titanium "uprights" (that were left-overs from the original Hase hand-trike.) Researching the different varieties of Kettwiesel that have been made over the years, single front ring Kett's range from 39T through to 52T, which would result in a slightly different front height for the chain run, depending on what ring I choose. I'll need to provide some leeway for the route in case I need to change the size of the front ring. I'd like to solve the problem by modifying the seat support so the chain (tube) can clear all obstacles, and run unimpeded, rather than having to add an idler wheel.

First thought is to widen the distance between the ICE seat frame supports, and increase the height between them and the top of the boom clamps. The chain could then run through the gap this creates.






I'll mount the bottom bracket and crankset as a next step, then set the boom position to roughly what I'll be needing - some trial and error with the chain in place will reveal what to change with the seat clamps, and also whether the return route for the chain will clear the steerer's handlebar.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (15 Jan 2020)

On the Hase the seat base frame is in the middle of the main tube.
Also the Hase seat base has a lower/deeper frame to allow clearance for the top chain tube.

It looks like the lower chain-line will also go through the handlebars, if so they will need moving as well!

HTH
Good luck.
Edit
Copied from my reply in "What have you fettled today".
I didn't realise it was on here as well.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (15 Jan 2020)

If you used an Idler it would have to be floating or you'll end up with a compromised chainline as you run through the gears, as the chain run is rather short from the seat mount to the cassette.

Looking forward to see how you resolve this.
The alloy the seat frame is made of doesn't weld easily as it's tempered. Ask ICE.


----------



## Bad Machine (15 Jan 2020)

Nigelnightmare said:


> If you used an Idler it would have to be floating or you'll end up with a compromised chainline as you run through the gears, as the chain run is rather short from the seat mount to the cassette.



Yes, I'd thought about a floating idler too. Good. A bit concerned that if I did use one, I'd want a minimum of 11/12T, so it'd have a diameter (plus required clearances) that would put the seat base way above its current height. So I'm keeping that option as a last resort, even though it'd be rewarding to have it working properly.



> Looking forward to see how you resolve this.
> The alloy the seat frame is made of doesn't weld easily as it's tempered. Ask ICE.



So I'll cross out getting the base of the seat frame modified. 

In reality, I had not thought that an option - the ICE seat frames are incredibly light, and I don't recall ever seeing a post / report of the seat frame causing problems. So best leave as is _(especially if a welder tells you they're not easy to weld.....)_, and modify the supports around it.

The lower chainline may not be so difficult a problem to solve - currently the steerer arm is straight, and very close to the pivot point; but a longer steerer neck, or a handlebar with a 30, 50 or 60mm rise, or an amount of rotation could all mean the return chain line clears the bar. 

Frustratingly, I'll not be able to try out any ideas until the weekend.


----------



## Bad Machine (19 Jan 2020)

Here's the chain line on 52T front chainwheel, running to 11T and 34T on an SRAM PG970 cassette.







On 34T - clears the top of the frame clamp.






On 11T - clears the side of the frame clamp.

The problem is that changing through the gears fouls the top drive-side corner of the clamp. 

I can't see a simpler way round this than a floating idler, combined with widening and increasing the height of the seat support a little.






I've got a spare toothed idler left over from when I had a Performer JC-70 tadpole. I knew there was a reason for keeping it.


----------



## Andrew1971 (20 Jan 2020)

Would a wider BB cure it. Instead of the idler.
Andrew


----------



## Bad Machine (20 Jan 2020)

Hmm, I think on the current set-up that could give extra clearance for the gears at the 11T end of the cassette, but looking at the 34T side, I'd need quite some extra width on the BB to ensure it runs clear - here's a photo (top is BB end of frame) of the chainline 52T front 34T rear, but viewed directly overhead. You can see it's well over the clamp edge. 






Forgot to mention that I'm still relying on the _frame_ clamp as a base for the _seat_ clamp; whilst I can get lateral stability for the seat from two supports attaching to the rear of the seat frame, this lower support for the seat base needs to bear down centrally on the main frame.

(Somewhere deep in the back of my mind is Pythagorean theorem, ready and waiting to help me calculate how much wider the BB would need to be, for a given chain length (hypotenuse) , needing to move x cms from the vertical, at y cms from the base. Sorry, I'll have to stop there, I've now got a nose bleed. )


----------



## Bad Machine (20 Jan 2020)

I'm away with work until the end of the week, but I can still think about fixing the problem. Here's what I'll try next. Not sure how best to support the idler axle, and how high it'll need to be to clear the boom when chain's running to the 34T cog ?


----------



## Nigelnightmare (22 Jan 2020)

You can get away without an idler if you made your 52mm bracket top rounded so it looked like an arched window, or 🕰, or a section through a bowler hat.
Thus lowering the clamp bolts and gaining chain clearance through the gear range.
Then the seat mount goes in the center of the arch (center riser in the diagram above).
You wouldn't need the outer risers and the plate under the seat mounts could be shorter (saving weight).
Also without an idler the chain line will be better, quieter & more efficient.

HTH
Sorry I can't put diagrams or drawings on here. I've been told how but can't get it to work.


----------



## Bad Machine (22 Jan 2020)

Yes, that could work. Did you mean something like this ?






Looking at the 52mm clamp: it splits into four pieces, plus bolts. Top and bottom steel plates, top and bottom nylon arches. I would have to make up a new steel top plate in the correct "bowler hat" shape first, then pare down the nylon top section to match the curves on the new steel top plate.

Does anyone know the height above ground for the older steel-framed Hase Kett seat base (not the clamp underneath, but the mesh supporting your backside) when seated ?


----------



## Nigelnightmare (23 Jan 2020)

^^^Yes.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (23 Jan 2020)

Looking at pictures of them it looks to be around half way up the rear wheel in line with the main tube.
That makes it about 100mm (with 20" 406 wheels) from the center of the main tube to the center of the heat tube.
The lower it is the more stable the trike will be.
HTH


----------



## Bad Machine (6 Jun 2020)

I know it's now June, but I've made some progress, at last.






Well, the seat support has been modified by adding risers. The picture above shows current "work in progress", so some tidying up of bolt lengths is still to be done. The increase in height now has the seat base at 19" from the ground (standard Kettwiesels reportedly at around 18-20"). Considering my Hase Lepus has a seat height at 22", similar track width, but has wheels that are much less canted-in, I don't think it'll make much difference to me (but maybe it would to a regular Kett rider) ?






Secondly, the floating idler - now completed. An 11 tooth Allight-brand toothed power idler is free to move left or right along the width of a highly polished and greased 8mm s/s "sleeve". As the chainline moves, the idler follows. A chain keeper sits above the idler wheel on the support bracket, which itself is clamped to the frame with a modified Stauff-type clamp.






Above is where idler ends up when changing to a higher gear.

Below is where idler ends up when changing to a lower gear.






I'm pretty chuffed with the result - it just moves from one side to the other by itself 

The position just ahead of the seat was the best compromise, having previously tried to get it to work a) between the rear cassette and the seat mount, b) under the seat, c) at the point where the boom inserts into the frame. On the bench in testing, every change in gear has the idler move to a new position, ensuring the chain moves through the seat support without touching any of the surrounding structures, and the chain line is straight between rear cassette and front ring. Time will tell whether this is reliable.






Thirdly, the seat repairs are finished. A hole in frame cross-tube repaired, and missing top sections of seat tubing (above) replaced. Seat mesh machine washed first, then mesh repairs using SeamGrip - hopefully that will put an end to frayed fibres and loose threads.






Now the mesh stretches evenly across the whole seat. I decided to add an extra inch to the uprights' length when repairing - enough space for a rear light mount.

Lastly, I've re-purposed the aluminium tubes from a walking frame.






My previously mocked-up steerer bar was really heavy, despite a lightweight cross-tube and titanium arms. Online searches for suitable low-cost recumbent handlebars drew a blank.

Then the idea for this came. Rather than leave my elderly mother without the walking frame I got the idea from, I paid £2 for an identical second-hand one this morning.

Comparison of working idea, and salvaged aluminium tubing:






The end result, at maybe a third of the weight:


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (8 Jun 2020)

It’s coming along nicely!


----------



## Bad Machine (8 Jun 2020)

I spent some time today measuring and adjusting wheelbase, x-seam and seat angles on the rebuild, compared to the Lepus.

The new TSDZ2 crank drive is almost completely hidden behind the 52T chain ring, and because the handlebar to front fork steering pole will run above the bottom bracket, the motor hangs in a more normal position underneath the boom. 






If the 52T front gearing does prove too high, the floating idler's position won't need to be adjusted if I reduce to a 46 or 42 tooth ring.


----------



## Bad Machine (13 Jun 2020)

I had two attempts at making seat supports today, one bad, one good. The fine weather meant I could leave the trike outside on the ground, leaving the workbench in the garage clear. Here's the idea: a 2-part stay for each side of the seat, where the lower fitment bolts to the frame, and receives the (longer) upper that has been clamped to the seat. All parts are now ready to be fitted, so tomorrow I should be able to sit on it for the first time.


----------



## Bad Machine (27 Jun 2020)

Now that the seat supports are in place, I can test out the sitting position for real.
Maybe a tad too upright, but reclining the seat will be possible by reducing the length of the two aluminium seat stays and loosening the underseat clamps and then re-tightening.







The seat riser arrangement has been revamped with 38mm stauff clamps, and 38mm OD aluminium tubing inserts - the first version that worked properly used 25mm clamps, but there was still a risk the chain would rub in 1st gear. Of course, it was easier to make the horizontal plates second time around, I knew what to do.







As the seat support needed to be rebuilt, the underside of the seat has been afforded some protection from the chainline by running the upper 4mm al plate forward right up to the floating idler - the plan is to have chain tubes running from there to the chainring, and then another chaintube to take the return.

With the seat in roughly the right position, I could check the "zimmer" steerer idea was going to work. Clamped in place, it became clear there wasn't enough clearance between the edge of the seat, and the upright of the steerer. The ICE seat has a width of 39cms, and my Hase Lepus seat has 43cms, and I find a 10cm gap between edge of seat and the centre of the grip shifters is comfortable.






So the steerer needed to be wider. The solution has been to splice a new length of 22.3mm zimmer tubing into the middle of the steerer, using an a very tight-fit internal support tube and M5 bolts to secure against rotation.


Fitting pedals was a good next move - I could sit, test hand height & position, and check the boom is at the right length (no it is not....).


----------



## voyager (27 Jun 2020)

Coming along nicely, looking good .


----------



## Bad Machine (2 Jul 2020)

The original thought that I could steer the front fork tube using a notched light bracket was maybe a little naiive. No matter how far the top nut on fork tube is tightened against the bracket and the lock nut below it (this is a 1" threaded headset), there's play when moving the lever forwards and backwards. And I'm not one for carrying a full set of spanners on every ride.

Brazing a levering plate onto the fork's shoulder - as standard on the factory-built older Hase designs - isn't an option. With a crank drive in situ there would need to be a series of bends in the steerer bar that runs between the fork and the underseat handlebar (I've seen how creative standard Kett owners have had to be to navigate around their TSDZ2 or Bafang motors). 

The new idea is to use a short reach quill stem at 90 degrees to normal, wedged at an appropriate height in the steerer tube, connecting to a straight tube that can run diagonally down over the crank drive and on to the handlebar fixing. An M5 rivnut locked into the front of the 16mm Al tube connects to the stem through a rose joint pivot; the rear is clamped (via 2 P-clips, a bridge, and either a rose or thrust joint) to the horizontal section of the handlebar. 

I've seen that reducing the distance between fork centre and front rose joint increases leverage, but reducing the handlebar centre to clamp gap at the rear will decrease the angle the front wheel turns, and avoids the steerer tube moving too far in or out from the boom. Several variables to play with - I've made my choice and have ordered the various bits and pieces needed, and will await the post.


----------



## byegad (2 Jul 2020)

My 2008 Kett' AL has a strange threadless headset. The bearings are at an angle, because they take a lot more strain than a two wheeler. I had to replace mine at 4500 miles. I found the bearings in Belgium, eventually and only after contacting Hase directly! I then searched the web and turned up a couple more sets, one of which came from Holland, the other from Germany. I did find the Chinese manufacturer, who will sell direct, minimum order 1000 items! I am getting old enough to suspect that I now have enough for my lifetime as the Kett' is my winter ride, and I seem to be covering fewer miles each winter.


----------



## Bad Machine (2 Jul 2020)

Very interesting. What were the signs that your bearings had worn ? I'd have thought wear & tear harder to notice on a delta trike with the front being normally very lightly-loaded ? Presumably, you weren't able to dissect these specialist bearings to look for the damage e.g. brinelling ?

I'm not likely to hit that kind of mileage for a while, but maybe I will now check the headset more often........ The Hase Lepus I also have is from about 2003, but has two threaded headsets, the second being part of the seat support / steerer pivot. I've been using its set-up as a guide for the steerer on the Kett rebuild; you can see what it was like when I bought it in 2014.


----------



## Bad Machine (13 Jul 2020)

I've been measuring the gap between the fork centre and rose joint position on the Hase Lepus. 47mm approx. Looking through the huge number of photos of quill stems on Ebay was useful to identify any that might have a handlebar clamp bolt that runs parallel to the steerer tube quill (modify existing component easier than fabricating new one, I'd hope).






Two versions of the SR Custom 1" quill stem were ordered. I found the 60mm version had a 39mm "gap", and the 80mm version, 58mm. Knowing that increased front "gap" would make it easier to turn the forks, the 80mm stem was chosen, fixed in the vice and set to with hacksaw and metal files. Some time later the result was fitted into the front headset, allowing the steerer tube to be attached (16mm Al tube, with M8 rivnut inserted/set in the end, then M8 rose joint).







Two aluminium plates were cut from 3mm sheet, and fashioned to take rubberised P-clips for the 16mm steerer tube, and the 22.2mm handlebar. I'm not yet happy about the best way to get a bearing between the two - the picture shows current idea, using an oilite bush, a thrust bearing, and an M8 screwset. It works, but it may be bettered !






Using rubber sleeved P-clips has allowed me to experiment with the best position for the pivot on the handlebar (too far lateral, and the steerer tube catches against the inside of the left crank arm; too far towards the centre line, then there's not enough back and forward movement within the arc to rotate the fork). They also make for simple adjustment when changing the length of the boom. Using just one P clip and no aluminium plate resulted in a flexible joint that pulled to one side, hence this version uses two, but on opposite sides.






The pivot point doesn't sit directly over the 22mm handlebar, but is 47mm to the rear, to compensate for the reach of the handlebar clamp used. It should be 40mm, but I made a mistake when measuring up. 











Work on it was interrupted by my neighbour asking me to show him how to mend a puncture - in return he's offered to make me small parts on his newly-purchased CNC router. Once he's learnt how.


----------



## Bad Machine (15 Jul 2020)

Two steps forward ......

I had the trike down from the workbench yesterday, with a plan to check how well the steering works. To do that safely, I set up one of the rear Magura Julie brakes, slipped the 9-speed grip shifter onto the left handlebar upright, popped the brake lever on top, tied the cable & tube out of the way, undid the front wheel immobilising rope, and rolled it onto the driveway.






Shortening the boom to the correct length for my legs was first, then adjusting the steerer tube length to compensate next. Sitting in it for a few minutes, and pedalling around proved it would all work, but the following problems were noted:

a) The seat clamp can slide backwards when pushing hard against the pedals
b) The front fork rotates too far, and too easily
c) The 22mm handlebar clamp's P-clips can "wobble"
d) The handlebar uprights are 50-60mm too short

Tightening the seat clamp bolts reduced the slippage, but didn't eliminate it. I think a thin neoprene rubber "collar" between the clamp and the boom will be next to try. I'll also experiment with moving the steerer pivot closer to the centre line, and trying the 60mm quill stem, before drawing up another design for the handlebar/P-clip arrangement. Extending the handlebar uprights is straightforward.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (18 Jul 2020)

The 60mm quill stem will make it worse.
Moving the steerer pivot closer to the center line is your best bet.


----------



## Bad Machine (18 Jul 2020)

Yes, that'd make sense. So I'll persist with the 80mm stem for the moment - Ive just cut 2cm off the height, so that when it expands onto the fork tube, the clamping area is midway between the top and bottom of the head tube.

I've seen that if I rotate the quill's arm slightly clockwise _before_ clamping into the straight-ahead fork position, I can limit how much further the fork turns to the right (because the quill stem limits any further move towards the centre). I might be able to use the same idea to limit the anticlockwise rotation of the fork by seeing how much or little movement occurs with the new rear steerer pivot.


----------



## Bad Machine (26 Jul 2020)

Cutting bolts to the correct length is all that remains to do for the new steering pivot assembly, then I can try another test ride; as agreed, moving the rear steering pivot closer to the boom has made a difference. 

I took another look at the Lepus steering: 
The front fork rotates approximately 45 degrees from centre to max. right, limited by the steerer pole hitting the lower headset cup (max. right)







and rotates approximately 45 degrees from centre to max. left, limited by the steerer pole hitting the rear boom clamp. (Picture below is looking from above). Something to learn from.







Handlebar upright extensions have been cut from the 22.2mm zimmer frame remnants; the right hand extension (for front brake and 9 speed grip shift) is just a straight piece added in, but the left hand needs more thought - I have been trying out different layouts for the rear brake (Magura), throttle and remote controller, and have kept a non-working gripshift to act as a hand rest.






I know many prefer bar-end shifters, but I don't, and I like to use the bar-end for bells, mirrors, and in this case, a "kill switch" (I've still got to make that). The bend in the handlebar tube places the thumb-plate of the throttle in the right spot for my left thumb, but is out of the way when needing to squeeze the brake lever. N.b. the grub screw that secures the TSDZ2 throttle to the handlebar is way too long, so that got cut in half with the dremel. Truncated, its head hides nicely below the surface.


----------



## Bad Machine (15 Aug 2020)

The finished left handlebar end, with cabling for the throttle and kill switch running through the tube and out through the gear cable barrel adjuster.

The right handlebar end is very similar to the Hase Lepus I have, with a 9-speed gripshift, bell and mirror. I'm trying an annular cycle bell - I thought the design was neat. I started off with a straight bar end, but have preferred matching the look of the curved left, so have duplicated that. I'll have to source better handlebar grips - these have been hard to trim neatly, even with a new blade on the Stanley knife. Maybe because they're really thick heavy rubber. Maybe, possibly, perhaps, because of my technique.






The original trike remnants I bought included Magura Julie calipers and two rotors (still mounted on the axle); separate left and right brake levers were also with the pile of bits, but no tubing. As I've been happy with a similar set up on the Lepus, the plan has been to repeat the same on the rebuild. The calipers and levers were in an OK condition, but I hadn't been able to test them.

Long before I got the parts for this Kettwiesel, I had picked up a bargain set of HS33 rim brakes for a front wheel, and a pair of "lightly-used" Julies (of a different design), each complete with pads, tubing and levers. Now that the handlebars have been close to completion, I've had them out on the workbench, cleaned and checked them over (one sticking piston loosened on the Julies, missing "D" washer and "hourglass" bolt, olives and shroud nuts sourced from Tartybikes.co.uk finishes off the HS33s). There are some useful videos online (some only in german) for Magura brakes, and it has been good to learn what to do, and what not to do. 











One consequence of using curved handlebar ends - it's impossible to slide a gripshift into the required position from the end, as the bend is too tight. Not a problem - these handlebar ends were add-ons to the existing (straight) unprights, bolted together on a smaller section of Al tube within.







It is this break in the handlebar uprights that will allow the hydraulic levers to be removed, and then they can be held in a horizontal position (the system can't be filled and bled properly if they are vertical).





Above is the new (temporary) crankset - a square taper 42T Sturmey Archer / Sunrace. 170mm crank length, with double chainguard. An unexpected purchase, needed to keep the project moving along. It's pictured mated to a new Shimano UN-55 127mm bottom bracket, and a recently fettled spacer plate / chain tube stay.





The SPD pedals came from the "good to have a spare" parts bin. 

Sadly, the TSDZ2 crank motor has a fault, and is currently en-route back to the repair centre in Italy, under warranty. It was new last year, and put to one side but not tested until last week. It performed as expected with the thumb throttle, but the motor wouldn't kick in when pedalling. My guess is the torque-sensor isn't talking to the controller. I chose the TSDZ2 motor over a Bafang based on the very positive experience (1. ease of installation 2. natural "feel" of a torque-sensing controller kicking in the assist when you pedal 3. option of thumb-throttle) of one I fitted to my wife's Raleigh 2-wheeled bike. That's now done its first 1000 miles, without issue. 





New chain tubes - from standard 16mm irrigation pipe, cut to size and flared at both ends. Acetone used to remove the "Rainbird" branding printed along the length. They'll be secured at the front end with a vertical aluminium stay.






I'll start with getting the upper tube in the right position before moving on to the lower. 





Just finished that - success ! With fixing only at the front, the rear of the tube is free to follow the position on the chain on the floating idler.


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (15 Aug 2020)

It’s looking really good! You must be near road testing now?


----------



## Bad Machine (15 Aug 2020)

404 Not Found Anywhere said:


> It’s looking really good! You must be near road testing now?



Thanks - I think it's looking good too, now that some of the small things are getting finished. I'll be readying all the Magura kit needed to make new hoses, fill and bleed (I have everything apart from a T7 Torx screwdriver for the brake lever reservoir covers, and clean brake pads - both already ordered).

Excuse the pun; Road testing as soon as I've put the brakes on !


----------



## Bad Machine (23 Aug 2020)

This morning the rebuild project got its first proper ride. A quick 5 mile circuit to see how well everything works, and what still needs attention.

Before setting off, and whilst still on the workbench, it got a thorough lookover from front to back, checking for anything that hadn't been fully tightened. The most recent work has been on the hydraulic brakes, and an addition to the quill stem steering lever. On Friday I'd finished the day with a freshly-cleaned and bled pair of Magura Julie disc brakes on the rear, and some Magura HS33 rim brakes for the front. They should have this Kett pulling up pretty sharpish - when required. 






This Saturday's job was to make a modification to the steering angles and pivots, so the Kett got back its ability to turn sharply to both left and right, without the handlebars rubbing against the rear wheels. 





(Design for a steering lever add-on for the quill stem, and the finished item, functionally fine, but in need of some cosmetic tidying-up).

Minor things also got done this week. The cheap plastic Sunrace-branded crank bolt covers supplied with the "Sturmey Archer" 42T crankset got a £2.20 replacement of combined allen key / washer bolts in black and silver. A small but definite improvement over the tacky-looking moulded grey plastic. The rubber handlebar grip for the right side got a replacement too - this time I used a craft knife with a new and longer blade, and took my time trimming to size. 






The grips' end caps (which weren't going to get used) now are frame plugs at the top of the seat, the right hand one centre drilled to 7mm for the Hase flag pole.






2 pieces of double-sided 25mm velcro tape cut to 30cm lengths - to turn two brake levers into parking brakes.

Annoyingly, the reason for a persistent flat on the right rear inner tube couldn't be found; freshly-unwrapped replacement fitted, pressure holding at 48 hours and counting.

Here's a couple of pictures of the trike as it was today for the road test. 















And the key info:

Frame: Hase Kettwiesel c. 2003 Steel (rear frame) and Titanium alloy (front boom)
Seat: ICE "Q" size/ ICE Mesh seat (c. 2006)
Forks: Steel
Headset: Primax/Rudelli 1" threaded
Hub (front): Shimano Deore LX 36H QR
Hub (rear): Hase twin bearing axle and Hase differential
Wheels: Front - LA alloy 406-20C
Wheels: Rear Left - HJC alloy 406-20C Rear Right - Alexrims alloy DM24 406-24
Tyres: 3 x Schwalbe Crazy Bob 20 x 2.10 / 406 54
Crankset: Sturmey Archer FCS 722 42T double chainguard 170mm
Pedals: PowerPlay Force MTB Pedals SPD 
Chain: 2 x KMC X9.73
Power idler: Allight 11T
Cassette: Shimano HG 11-34
Rear mech: Shimano Deore LX
Shifter: SRAM Attack Gripshift 9 speed
Front Brakes: Magura hydraulic HS33 / Magura Julie V1 lever
Rear Brakes: Magura hydraulic Julie x2 / Magura Julie V1 lever



So how was the ride ? 

The good: 

Just a tad worried that something's going to snap/undo/fail. But it didn't. 
seat height - easy in, easy out, and no flex with the frame when turning sharply. 
gearing - no complaints with current range, 42T & 11-34
gear change - quick response from twist grip up & down, and the floating idler moves from side to side promptly to keep the chainline straight.
Steering - turns on a sixpence.
chain tube - hardly hear it ! 
curved bar ends - very comfortable - your hands fall into a relaxed position.
rear brakes - you can really feel the trike being yanked back when these get used; the extra time spent cleaning the piston seals on these has been repaid.


The not so good:

steering - there's play within the rose joint that links steerer tube with quill stem lever. I thought that'd rattle, and it sure did ! Replacement needed.
front brakes - working, but compared to the rear, the level feels "spongey" in use. I'll bet I didn't get all the air out of the system.
no physical "stop" for front fork rotation, and the fork "flop" forces handlebar ends into rear wheels on max left/right turns. 

What next ? Well, it has moved from a static project onto a rolling one. Today's quick ride picked up some bugs to fix, and there's still some tidying up to do on various custom-made parts, but basically the Kett's back as a rideable trike. I'll need to get out on it regularly and get some more miles on those tyres, just to see how well the various parts hold up. Some paint and mudguards,lights and a rear bag wouldn't go amiss either.........


----------



## 404 Not Found Anywhere (23 Aug 2020)

That‘s a nice piece of work! One of the things I like about recumbents is the need for “outside the box” thinking at times to find solutions.

I went through several rose joints on my Kett... for some reason they wear quite quickly. Must be different stresses compared to the track rods on tadpole trikes. The solution was to get a replacement with a grease nipple, just give it a shot of lubricant every so often and it lasts much longer. I bought two for the inevitable next replacement but I’ve not needed to use the second one!


----------



## Nigelnightmare (25 Aug 2020)

404 Not Found Anywhere said:


> That‘s a nice piece of work! One of the things I like about recumbents is the need for “outside the box” thinking at times to find solutions.
> 
> I went through several rose joints on my Kett... for some reason they wear quite quickly. Must be different stresses compared to the track rods on tadpole trikes. The solution was to get a replacement with a grease nipple, just give it a shot of lubricant every so often and it lasts much longer.* I bought two for the inevitable next replacement but I’ve not needed to use the second one!*



That's 'Sod's' law.
If you hadn't bought an extra it would have failed and you wouldn't have been able to get an exact replacement.


----------



## Bad Machine (5 Sep 2020)

A slightly longer ride of 15 miles today, with two repair kits - one mechanical, one puncture repair - in zip-up tubes velcro-strapped to the seat frame. Mainly to test the latest steering mod.






Changing over the front rose joint for another didn't solve the rattle, much to my annoyance. Knowing there had to be an explanation, I hoisted the front wheel and fork clear of the workbench and looked closer at how both the front and rear pivots turned.

Not one, but two possible reasons for the rattle.

1. M8 fully threaded bolts have external dim. of approx. 7.8mm, and the front rose joint has internal bore of 8mm. So unless the rose is fastened uber-tight against the quill plate, there'll be movement. Solution - a replacement part-threaded M8 bolt with 8mm un-threaded shank within rose bore.

2. The rear joint was inclined at an angle, approximate to that of the steerer tube when straight ahead. Turning the handlebars changes this angle, and a gap results. No rattle if I cycle straight ahead, but....... Solution - replace thrust washer / oilite pivot with another rose joint than can cope with changing angles.






If funds were unlimited, then it would have been good to have opposite-handed threads on the ends of the steerer tube (rotating the tube would lengthen/shorten it). But how many times have I actually needed to adjust the length of the steerer tube on my Lepus, once it was set up for me ? Maybe once, or twice in six years - and minimal adjustment at that. So rather than go to the extra expense of sourcing left hand threaded rivnut, M8 rod, lock nuts and female rose joint, I've used standard right hand stuff - so I only needed a female rose joint. This set up still allows small adjustments in length, just have to disconnect the front joint first.






There are enough pictures of Hase trikes on the internet to argue this: Hase trikes look naked without mudguards ! They look lanky, vulnerable, and unfinished. With the exception of their most recent design, the Trigo, almost every photo has them fitted. With mudflaps, too. But as I quickly found out, mudguards are only ever available in an even number (which is fine if you happen to be building two trikes, or have a friend with a needy tadpole)..... "Two long mudguards and one short, please, Barman. And my friend here will have two short and one long. ICE ? Yes, how did you know ?". Anyway, I've fitted one front and one rear, with the other rear still to do. Ready for service over the coming months. 
_
(p.s. Does anyone want to buy a single front 20" wheel mudguard, SKS wide, complete with fittings, surplus to requirements......)_


----------

