# Help Building Pain Cave



## Tin Pot (1 Oct 2015)

I _need to train a lot_. I'm not a strong cyclist, and I have two Ironman events next year. Hence I'm setting up some indoor home trainingnext week.

*Location*:
Front room - dismissed, too hot, too noisy, too much hassle.
Garage - could make space, has power, boiler, uneven concrete floor, potential for hassle as wife chucks shoot in there randomly.
Shed - would have to empty, has no power, not sure of wifi signal.

1 Probably garage?

*Kit*
2 Which and which Type of trainer?
3 Which power meter?
4 What does trainer road add/cost?
5 iPad or Xbox one?
6 Anything else?

7 Is releasing the bike always easy?
If something is hassle I won't do it. I've heard you need turbo wheels/tyres.
If it isn't easy to get the bike out and go, I won't ride outside. I'm expecting an hour or two per week on it, depending on the weather until February.

8 So, buy another bike and plug it into the trainer, or use existing bike on non-race wheels?

9 Is the turbo a good place to practice the aero tuck?
10 What the hell is the bill for all this crap going to be..?!
11 Or, screw all that and use a watt bike at the gym and spin classes? 


Cheers,

TP


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## LocalLad (1 Oct 2015)

Interested to know where you end up.

Some will no doubt post and say "just go out and cycle", but I can see some advantages of a choice.

I'm sorting out my garage tomorrow as it's a bit of a tip, and was wondering if I'd end up with space for something similar...will have to be ruthless with the crap that's in there


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## oldfatfool (1 Oct 2015)

TACX If you want to spend the cash and are serious. You will also need a reasonably powerful computer to run the system. A large fan or two is a must as well. Not sure why you want ipad/ xbox/ power meter. I have a cheap ally bike sat permanently on mine with a turbo tyre. If you don't want the expense of a seperate bike just buy a spare cheap rear wheel, two minutes to change over, if you have an expensive bike though I wouldn't personally want to use it fixed into a turbo for long periods especially if you put a lot of power through the cranks, as the rear wheel as very little scope for latteral movement.


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## 400bhp (1 Oct 2015)

oldfatfool said:


> TACX If you want to spend the cash and are serious



Wouldn't a wahoo kickr or a watt bike be a better option?


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## DCLane (1 Oct 2015)

Alternatively, find a local bike club that runs turbo sessions; they're intense activities and much cheaper.

I use a set of rollers as does my 11yo and SWMBO's ... slowly ... getting used to us in the living room, clad only in shorts, riding the rollers. He's better than me as I tend to fall off.


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## Tin Pot (1 Oct 2015)

oldfatfool said:


> TACX If you want to spend the cash and are serious. You will also need a reasonably powerful computer to run the system. A large fan or two is a must as well. Not sure why you want ipad/ xbox/ power meter. I have a cheap ally bike sat permanently on mine with a turbo tyre. If you don't want the expense of a seperate bike just buy a spare cheap rear wheel, two minutes to change over, if you have an expensive bike though I wouldn't personally want to use it fixed into a turbo for long periods especially if you put a lot of power through the cranks, as the rear wheel as very little scope for latteral movement.



I can't see the value in £765 just for the trainer. I only use tablets, phones and consoles these days - no old fashioned desktop computers for me. 

iPad/Xbox for training videos, training games and other boredom avoiding activities.

Power meter to measure power. It's pretty much needed for the event, and outdoor training, so using it indoors rather than buying a trainer that can do it. I think Stages are amongst the cheapest but a Campag crank may not yet be available or at a reasonable price.

I'm not sure whether I will upgrade to a "cheap" TT bike yet, or stick with my Cinelli Experience, but either way I'd need to get it out and go without changing wheels/cassettes/bone marrow.


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## Tin Pot (1 Oct 2015)

DCLane said:


> Alternatively, find a local bike club that runs turbo sessions; they're intense activities and much cheaper.
> 
> I use a set of rollers as does my 11yo and SWMBO's ... slowly ... getting used to us in the living room, clad only in shorts, riding the rollers. He's better than me as I tend to fall off.



Hmm, I see this as a time and weather saving setup, I'm not sure why I would ride to somewhere to use a turbo..? Comradery?


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## Crandoggler (1 Oct 2015)

I use Motivo app on my Cycleops Fluid 2. You need a heart rate monitor, cadence sensor and if you have the money, a power meter, otherwise it uses a virtual wattage for you. It has free plans which you choose and stick to the zones, via your sensors/monitors. I use my all weather bike (my only bike) with the skewer being the only item I change over. A fan is preferable, but when it's chilly in the morning, I can use it without. 

This setup cost me £75 for the trainer second hand, £50 for heart rate monitor and I still haven't for a cadence monitor, as I'm able to judge it quite well from years of watt biking. Sensors/monitors need to be Bluetooth/ant+. 

It's dull, hard work and morally, it's extremely unrewarding. However, the workouts are hard as nails! My ability to hold a high effort for a period of time has hugely increased, which in part has been helped by the trainer. 

If you want to spend loads and have a virtual game or watch videos, then go for it. Personally, I'd prefer a structured hour on the trainer than a ride round a fantasy island. But I can see the appeal.


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## slowmotion (2 Oct 2015)

Find some very steep hills, some very long flat roads, and get out on your bike.
A lot.
Save the techno cash for some cake.


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## jowwy (2 Oct 2015)

The pain cave - fitted with elite realtour turbo, 42" lcd screen, pc, android tv box, 2 fans, wireless keyboard and specialized shiv TT bike.......

Cushioned flooring, sweat mat and shelving and racking for my other bikes and equipment

Cost = priceless


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## theloafer (2 Oct 2015)

jowwy said:


> View attachment 105500
> 
> 
> The pain cave - fitted with elite realtour turbo, 42" lcd screen, pc, android tv box, 2 fans, wireless keyboard and specialized shiv TT bike.......
> ...



now that's what you call a SHED ....


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## LocalLad (2 Oct 2015)

But I wanna see inside!


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## Tin Pot (2 Oct 2015)

slowmotion said:


> Find some very steep hills, some very long flat roads, and get out on your bike.
> A lot.
> Save the techno cash for some cake.



I'll still be doing the hills but there are no long straight roads. I need to do a lot of short / hard sessions over the next two months or so to build speed - to keep this up, I need alternatives to the open road.

I don't work nine to five, which makes regular road riding hard. And I can burn calories while arguing in SC&P 

Im not hearing much justification for the more expensive turbos, so I may get an Aldi special £50? And a Stages power meter ~£600? And sell the power meter after the event.

My HRM died so I need a new one anyway.


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## Crandoggler (2 Oct 2015)

Seems they're way under your £600 estimate by the way.


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## Tin Pot (2 Oct 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Seems they're way under your £600 estimate by the way.



I can't find any crank power meter Veloce compatible, so I'm assuming it's out there but expensive...

Maybe I should buy a new bike to fit a £350 FSA Stages crank ..?


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## huwsparky (2 Oct 2015)

Why do you feel the need to be doing short, hard sessions at this time of year? I'd say, your ideal training now would be longer miles at low intensity, building up to HIIT sessions early in the new year. No point looking to peak at Christmas!

BTW if your goal is solely completing an ironman you most definitely don't 'need' a Power Meter. I have a few friends who completed IMW this year and ironically the one who has a power Meter was the slowest out of all of them.


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## Buck (2 Oct 2015)

If you've got room in the garage or can make room, go for that option.

That way you don't need to keep putting it away after use. 

As far as which turbo etc. I am clueless but wondering if you know anyone local who has one that you could try and then see what the best price new or used is ?.


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## Buck (2 Oct 2015)

@Tin Pot 

What are the iron man distances/specs?


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## huwsparky (2 Oct 2015)

Buck said:


> @Tin Pot
> 
> What are the iron man distances/specs?


2.4 mile swim
112 mile cycle
26.2 mile run


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## jowwy (2 Oct 2015)

LocalLad said:


> But I wanna see inside!


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## Buck (2 Oct 2015)

Cheers @huwsparky 

I think if the ride is 112 then as you say, some endurance training in the bike is in order. Partly for TP to get used to the hours in the saddle and pacing to make sure that the distance is achievable. TP - do you know the course? What do you think your average speed will be?


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## Tin Pot (2 Oct 2015)

huwsparky said:


> 2.4 mile swim
> 112 mile cycle
> 26.2 mile run



Yup, and I have half of that in June too.


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## fossyant (2 Oct 2015)

Find a road. And ride it 

Our turbo expert hasn't been seen for a bit but @Rob3rt is a genius at training on these for time trials. It takes some serious commitment to train on a turbo and Rob has it. He does his race TT training on it and is at National Class on TTs. He is a fast lad. That's how he gets his training in due to work and family life.

Training for racing on a turbo is seriously hard mentally. I couldn't do it. I prefer the roads.

I can't even try my hand again at TTs with the amount of fixed gear road riding I do, but I am faster than I was as a 20 year old. I'm unfortunately on banned drugs just to feel normal. Can't race. 

Mix it up. Use turbos to get the high end, but also use road riding. If short on time, can you commute on the bike. It's a good way of getting a good work out. Sprint from lights, keep a good pace, sprint for spaces.... Oh and avoid getting run over.... Good for reflexes.


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## Buck (2 Oct 2015)

jowwy said:


> View attachment 105586



Nice. You need to get your sockets on the wall behind the TV to give it that slick finish


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## Tin Pot (2 Oct 2015)

Buck said:


> Cheers @huwsparky
> 
> I think if the ride is 112 then as you say, some endurance training in the bike is in order. Partly for TP to get used to the hours in the saddle and pacing to make sure that the distance is achievable. TP - do you know the course? What do you think your average speed will be?



It will be, but don't worry about my training plan - it is in the hands of Ironmen


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## jowwy (2 Oct 2015)

Buck said:


> Nice. You need to get your sockets on the wall behind the TV to give it that slick finish


Its work in progress as i only fitted the screen this afternoon.......TT bike is still at the old house and will be fitted tomorrow and all cabling tidied up


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## huwsparky (2 Oct 2015)

Which IM you thinking of doing?

For what is worth, you need to be concentrating primarily on endurance. Boosting your power by 10% will give you nothing like the gain that boosting your zone 2 capabilities by 10% would. 

No point you doing the same training as a TT rider if you want to be as fast as you can be over ironman distances.


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## Tin Pot (3 Oct 2015)

huwsparky said:


> Which IM you thinking of doing?
> 
> For what is worth, you need to be concentrating primarily on endurance. Boosting your power by 10% will give you nothing like the gain that boosting your zone 2 capabilities by 10% would.
> 
> No point you doing the same training as a TT rider if you want to be as fast as you can be over ironman distances.



I have entry to IM Staffs 70.3 and IMUK Bolton. I'm raising money in memory of my father in law and my father for Scope and Bloodwise.

Nine/ten months of endurance training destroys the morale, and body. I'm taking the advice of people who have done multiple ironman events, coaches, and using winter for speed. Endurance training I'll build from February to July.

I've read a fair amount about Fink, Maffetone and other high volume approaches, and used Maffetone method for (light, avg 4hr/wk) training since 2012 - I haven't improved much and I put on ten kilos. Working hard and fast now means any injury can be recovered from, those session will reduce as the events come closer.

Zone 2 itself is up for much debate, a dozen different methods of calculation are about - I prefer Ben Greenfield's but it gives higher zones than say Karvonnen. These days bike training, and race pacing is better served by power meters. Iirc 75% FTP for IM bike should balance the bike speed with legs for the marathon. Heart rate during an event doesn't do it.


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## huwsparky (3 Oct 2015)

@Tin Pot 

Fair enough. It looks like you know where you want to go with your training and at least you have a plan!

Get that man cave sorted!!!


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## jowwy (3 Oct 2015)

Now with added bike


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## Citius (5 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> It will be, but don't worry about my training plan - it is in the hands of Ironmen



That's what worries me. There is no logic or convention behind doing speed work before building base mileage. Huw is spot on - you've got to build endurance first. Long steady miles in winter may be seen as 'dull, boring', etc (although I don't agree), but that is usually how committed athletes train.


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## Tin Pot (5 Oct 2015)

jowwy said:


> Now with added bike
> View attachment 105635



Thats looking good.

I have some way to go.







Note the "Ironman" ironing board, I'll use that for inspiration


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## Booyaa (5 Oct 2015)

Ditch the clubs, buy a new bike.


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## Tin Pot (5 Oct 2015)

Booyaa said:


> Ditch the clubs, buy a new bike.


Well spotted, I thought it was too hard to see in that pic.

Seven years honing and refining the make up of the bag to a perfect combination of imported exotics and Japanese forged irons - that's not gonna happen  Even if they get two outings per year


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## jowwy (5 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Well spotted, I thought it was too hard to see in that pic.
> 
> Seven years honing and refining the make up of the bag to a perfect combination of imported exotics and Japanese forged irons - that's not gonna happen  Even if they get two outings per year


Like your style on the clubs.........what forgings are they???


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## Tin Pot (5 Oct 2015)

jowwy said:


> Like your style on the clubs.........what forgings are they???



Vega RAFC-01 Nippon Steel 950GH shafts, great fitting from a friend of mine who now has a European posting with Callaway. Absolutely perfect for my swing, grouping on the 6i was pretty impressive on Trackman for my 13HCP when I was playing regularly.

Given all that up in the quest for Ironman bragging rights, but might have a couple of rounds at Woburn soon...


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## jowwy (5 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Vega RAFC-01 Nippon Steel 950GH shafts, great fitting from a friend of mine who now has a European posting with Callaway. Absolutely perfect for my swing, grouping on the 6i was pretty impressive on Trackman for my 13HCP when I was playing regularly.
> 
> Given all that up in the quest for Ironman bragging rights, but might have a couple of rounds at Woburn soon...


Nice - im a qualified club builder myself

Love the vegas


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

Ok all,

I've borrowed a TACX turbo, it has a cable where you choose the resistance 1-10.

The wheel isn't central, which bothers me.

I have a charged iPad.

I hear there are YouTube vids to watch as you train, where are they and do they tell you when to change resistance?

TP


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## ushills (6 Oct 2015)

Have a look at the Sufferfest videos or/and TrainerRoad.

I use both with Taxc Rollers and use the TR training plan.


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## ColinJ (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I hear there are YouTube vids to watch as you train, where are they and *do they tell you when to change resistance*?
> TP


Just set it to whatever suits whatever you are watching at the time!

If the rider on the screen goes round a sharp bend and the road suddenly kicks up to 20% then slam it into the highest resistance that the TT has.

If you are on a long fast descent then you would need to spin against a much lower resistance, and so on.

As for where the videos are .. Er, a search for 'turbo trainer videos' on YouTube finds 27,500 of them!


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## jowwy (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Ok all,
> 
> I've borrowed a TACX turbo, it has a cable where you choose the resistance 1-10.
> 
> ...


release the wheel with the bue handle - then on the opposite side wind out the arm a bit further to push the wheel across, wind in the opposite arm with the handle and then reclamp


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

ColinJ said:


> Just set it to whatever suits whatever you are watching at the time!
> 
> If the rider on the screen goes round a sharp bend and the road suddenly kicks up to 20% then slam it into the highest resistance that the TT has.
> 
> ...



Nearly through the first result on YouTube. I suppose you have to gauge your own effort levels.

Should've brought a towel
In.

Any cadence, or doesn't it matter?

It's a bit tricky to get a smooth feeling.


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## Citius (6 Oct 2015)

Set the resistance up to reflect a 'road' feel and just leave it - then just vary the effort using gears and cadence. If you are just pulling random videos off YT it doesn't sound very structured?


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

Citius said:


> Set the resistance up to reflect a 'road' feel and just leave it - then just vary the effort using gears and cadence. If you are just pulling random videos off YT it doesn't sound very structured?



I'll try that. I was going to ask about gearing.

Structured? Not yet, I wanted to get it set up and running before the bad weather and heavy work commitments.

It seems to work, I'm sweating, heart rate is up etc.

Next up is the power meter, and session plans I guess.

I'm at CadencePerformance tomorrow for a Retul based fit, I'll see what the cheapest lower options they have while I'm there. Can't seem to find any crank based ones compatible though there is some rumour that an FSA crank might fit my Miche/Veloce set up.


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## Mugshot (6 Oct 2015)

jowwy said:


> Now with added bike
> View attachment 105635


Will you be able to see the screen ok from there?


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## jowwy (6 Oct 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Will you be able to see the screen ok from there?


Yeh its not as close as the pic makes it look


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## Citius (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Next up is the power meter, and session plans I guess.



Are you still planning on doing the speed work before the base work?


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## jonny jeez (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I _need to train a lot_. I'm not a strong cyclist, and I have two Ironman events next year. Hence I'm setting up some indoor home trainingnext week.
> 
> *Location*:
> Front room - dismissed, too hot, too noisy, too much hassle.
> ...


I wish you luck.

I bought a tacx flow last year, the one that you can plug into a laptop...used it twice, once in anger, sold it a month or two later for more than I paid for it...it sold it 30 seconds..Literally. I couldn't believe it, sold and paid for by Pay-pal in less than one minute.

I thought it was an error and if I hadn't only just bought it I would have been convinced I had under sold it.

they are very popular in the Autumn


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> I wish you luck.
> 
> I bought a tacx flow last year, the one that you can plug into a laptop...used it twice, once in anger, sold it a month or two later for more than I paid for it...it sold it 30 seconds..Literally. I couldn't believe it, sold and paid for by Pay-pal in less than one minute.
> 
> ...



I can see it. My mate bought it last season, did one session. Now it's on loan to me . I've done one...lets see if no.2 ever happens


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## jonny jeez (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I can see it. My mate bought it last season, did one session. Now it's on loan to me . I've done one...lets see if no.2 ever happens


I'm not sure what the answer is...other than discipline.

to me, the faff (albeit far less faff than going out to the gym) of setting it up and the sheer dullness of riding for even an hour made it tough to get into.

Sounds daft but could you possibly facetime a mate who is also training and try and get some sort of virtual club ride thing going? that might be enough to motivate me, knowing that my mates around the world are sat in their sheds waiting for me to rock up and get sweating.


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

Citius said:


> Are you still planning on doing the speed work before the base work?



Yes.

But it's not like I'm doing no long rides, it's just he focus is on shorter session for the next six weeks. This from another forum (the first week is done).


"I have two weeks with midweek midday free time, so I'll be able to get up to 11hrs training in now, a mid morning and early afternoon session but no free time evenings or weekends, so Il just do some core work then. Only long session will be a lake swim/run. 

From then my "base"* will be 6 stretching to 10.5hrs this is expecting an avg 7-8hrs. 

Mon 30min run 
Tue* 10min jog + 1hr hard club run(z4/5) + 10min jog 
Wed 1hr hard ride 
Thu* 15min easy bike + 1hr track session club run (z4/5) + 15min bike 
Fri 15min easy bike + 45min swim tech + 30min watt bike hard + 15min easy bike 
Sat 30min (total) easy bike + 30min swim + ~25min park run 5k(z4/5)* 
Sun morning 2-3hr bike(z2/4)* ~4-800m climbed, evening swim (tri group) 45min + 30 easy bike 

Base sessions starred. "

That gets me to November, the 4th week will be recovery, and I'll look to shake it up again then.

A standard IM plan will start in six months before July 17th, so Jan 17th, the 220 plan if I have got another by then.

I might do the Wiggle South Downs 50odd miler in two weeks, and a local half marathon in Nov.


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## Tin Pot (6 Oct 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is...other than discipline.
> 
> to me, the faff (albeit far less faff than going out to the gym) of setting it up and the sheer dullness of riding for even an hour made it tough to get into.
> 
> Sounds daft but could you possibly facetime a mate who is also training and try and get some sort of virtual club ride thing going? that might be enough to motivate me, knowing that my mates around the world are sat in their sheds waiting for me to rock up and get sweating.


Not a bad idea.

Mainly it's variety that keeps me going. A run on Tuesday makes even a turbo session on Weds appealing. And if it was cold wet and windy, maybe very appealing.


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## jonny jeez (6 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Not a bad idea.
> 
> Mainly it's variety that keeps me going. A run on Tuesday makes even a turbo session on Weds appealing. And if it was cold wet and windy, maybe very appealing.


I would imagine a facetime session would be quite a laugh, almost like a group ride but with the ability to chat all the time. the only limitation you might find is how to deal with the silence as things get serious and you get your heads down a bit. by then you may all be sufficiently addicted.

can these turbos create a file that you can upload to strava...that might help motivate you too. failing that make a manual upload...but I suspect that relies on honesty


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## Joshua Plumtree (7 Oct 2015)

I just recite the 50 or so poems I know off by heart over and over in me 'ead. Can't beat a bit of culture mixed with exercise. But I am a bit weird.


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## Tin Pot (7 Oct 2015)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> I just recite the 50 or so poems I know off by heart over and over in me 'ead. Can't beat a bit of culture mixed with exercise. But I am a bit weird.



Just a bit?


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## Tin Pot (7 Oct 2015)

Only relevant advice out of the fitting today was to look for pedal based power meters like Garmin Vector.

I'm interested in the Limits British design, but they seem to be very early days in terms of retailing.


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## 400bhp (7 Oct 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Only relevant advice out of the fitting today was to look for pedal based power meters like Garmin Vector.



I think these can be a bit marmite. @gam001 used to have one but ditched his.


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## Tin Pot (8 Oct 2015)

gam001 said:


> PEDALS
> 
> Yes, Garmin Vectors are very "faffy" - which may not suit you - as you will need to regularly check they are torqued correctly, otherwise power readings are incorrect (so need a accurate large torque wrench, which are not cheap) and need to recalibrate it manually before every ride (which has 2 stages to it !). I got pedals as I was recovering from an accident and wanted to check L/R leg balance.
> 
> ...



Saw this:
http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-c1-chainrings-3287-p.asp
Campag compatibility, the only problem seems to be that it's on preorder.


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## 400bhp (8 Oct 2015)

gam001 said:


> PEDALS
> 
> I am getting myself a powertap rear wheel for winter - used to have one, no faffing around, just get on and pedal, very reliable readings too! Apart from your power readings, you wouldn't even know you had a power meter! On sale currently at cyclepowermeters for c£550 - top value! Also has the added advantage of serving as a "winter training wheel", so that my "summer wheels" don't get ruined and last longer.
> 
> ...



Which one are you getting?

Should I build a pain cave in the garage...?


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## 400bhp (8 Oct 2015)

gam001 said:


> Getting this WheelSet for winter rides / turbo sessions...
> http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-g3-alloy-wheelset-942-p.asp
> 
> Yes, definitely - you could ride steady home from work for 20 mins as a warm up, then hook your bike onto your turbos when you get home and then do just 45mins with intervals on Tues and Thurs, say. Very slowly but surely ramp up the length of the intervals or reduce the recovery time each week, and you'll definitely start to notice the difference out on the road after a month or so
> ...



Hmmmm

Also looking at another bike at mo...


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## 400bhp (8 Oct 2015)

CX bike.

Little un is really keen to race. 

Bring your nephew along to watch / take part?


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## Tin Pot (11 Oct 2015)

Power meter question is still rolling - is a speed/cadence sensor like the Wahoo Blue SC an option or is power training that much better?

I ask because I was hoping to try Trainer Road yesterday with my HRM but they've advised a speed sensor is needed for virtual power, and suggested Wahoo.

Ultimately I wanted the PM to pace my IM bike, if a speed/cadence can do that I suppose it's just as good.


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## moo (11 Oct 2015)

All you need is a speed/cadence sensor and either an iPad/iPhone or PC (bluetooth or Ant+ and a dongle). 

The only caveat is consistency can be a concern. You'll want to keep the rear tyre at the same pressure and held in place with the same force each time. Temperature of the resistance unit in your turbo can also affect readings slightly.

Overall virtual power is good enough for interval training. The number itself will remain pretty stable during an interval, which is all you really need.


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## Citius (12 Oct 2015)

Or just use a speed sensor as a proxy for power. Constant speed = consistent power.


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## Citius (12 Oct 2015)

Turbo work is beset by all kinds of potential inaccuracies, as is road work. The best you can ever hope for is to be able to train to within a percentage of your target. You are never going to hit an exact number, or be able to maintain it, because you will never know what the exact number actually is....


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## moo (12 Oct 2015)

I'm probably not alone but once I've settled in to the target power during an interval my attention is entirely on cadence. The power output shown even with my Powertap fluctuates too much. You could use smoothing but then you have a delayed output. Keeping your cadence within target is a much easier real time adjustment. For this reason virtual power works quite well.


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