# What is the best country for cycling in the world?



## jorgemartin (8 Sep 2009)

Is it Germany?


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## aJohnson (8 Sep 2009)

Depends what you mean by best. Least traffic? Most hilly? Most flat?


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## Will1985 (8 Sep 2009)

Depends what sort of cycling you mean. For commuting it is almost certainly the Netherlands.
For general cycling I have no idea - my only experiences abroad (Italy, Switzerland and France) beat the UK hands down.


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## suthers (8 Sep 2009)

I would personally rate the best country in the world for cycling as being the one with the best maintained roads; anything else i can cope with be it hills/mountains etc. Thus of course the UK is out of the running completely, though i wont turn this thread into a rant about the dreadful state of our roads and lazy councils stupid belief that covering roads with gravel offers a good long term solution....bah.


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## MajorMantra (9 Sep 2009)

Not sure how it compares to the rest of the continent but Luxembourg (where I grew up) has a pretty rare combination of excellent roads and a population with a respect for cycling. The 'worst' roads I've found whilst cycling there would be about average for the UK.

It also has nice scenery and some great climbs/descents.

Matthew


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## Banjo (9 Sep 2009)

I spent some years in Germany 25 years ago.They had more facilities then for cyclists than we have now. It took a bit of getting used to as a british driver as bikes on a cycle path had right of way over vehicles where the cycle path crossed the road. The bikes wouldnt hesitate even when coming up from behind you while you were waiting to turn into a side road.


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## jimboalee (9 Sep 2009)

Sark.


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## lazyfatgit (9 Sep 2009)

The one where you are at any moment in time.

take a bike, borrow a bike, hire a bike.

Now i've got back on my bike, can't see me ever giving it up.


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## Globalti (9 Sep 2009)

France. Luvverly smooth tarmac.


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## jorgemartin (10 Sep 2009)

I don't know about all of Spain but the north has good roads and cycling lanes, and cars tend to be more respectful of cyclists (than in the UK). In Vitoria, the capital of the Basque Country, bicycle hire is free! I found the commuters of Amsterdam a bit too aggressive. Germany's cities are heaven for bicycles.


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## gavintc (10 Sep 2009)

It depends on what type of cycling you want to do. For me, my holidays in the south of France with warm weather, good tarmac and friendly drivers seems to be as good as it gets. I have cycled in a few countries. I am not sure of Germany with the cycle paths - just too organised (and Germanic) for me. But each to their own.


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## raindog (10 Sep 2009)

Not sure where smooth/good tarmac for French roads is coming from. Some of the roads where I live are real bone shakers. What _is _nice here though is the climate, and the fact that I can find almost deserted back roads to ride. Plenty of decent climbing too, if that's what you want, and I suppose most of us do.


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## threebikesmcginty (10 Sep 2009)

Wales is good, Powys in particular - keep a lovely strip of Tarmac there!


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## G-manUK (10 Sep 2009)

I agree with will. Netherlands is great. Well maintained cycle tracks in the towns, and as you go out of town, the paths split away from the roads making them safer as the roads get faster. Also flat as a pancake, so great for touring holiday.


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## Ian H (10 Sep 2009)

France is good because it's big and comparatively empty and everyone (almost) likes cyclists.


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## Dayvo (10 Sep 2009)

On a trip from Norway to Gibraltar, I found Germany to be far and away the best country to ride in. My mate was of the same opinion, although we didn´t mention it until we´d finished our journey.

The roads were very well sign-posted and had bike paths running parallel to major and busy roads; the ashphalt was in excellent condition; the drivers were considerate; there were plenty of good cafs and coffee stops along the way; the people were very friendly; the scenery was very pleasing on the eye, and it was cheap. And the weather was good all the time we were there (in November)!

Surprisingly, given the status and popularity of cycling in Belgium, their roads were/are atrocious and the worst we encountered.!


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## Randochap (10 Sep 2009)

Ian H said:


> France is good because it's big and comparatively empty and everyone (almost) likes cyclists.



+1


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## darkstar (10 Sep 2009)

For me Canada has been the best place i've ridden, this trails around Whistler are sik! That was before i gave up down hilling


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## Davidc (10 Sep 2009)

Of those I've cycled in - The Netherlands by a country mile.

Next Germany
Then Luxembourg
Then France

Last comes the UK, and I'm stuck with living here!

Trouble with answering this is that in each case experience is of course limited to the bits I've cycled in, which can only be a few %, even for the UK


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## Banjo (10 Sep 2009)

*Pictures of my favourite ride.*

Britain may not be the most cycle friendly country but its still my favourite corner of the world.

Took these pictures today on an hours loop from home and back.


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## HJ (10 Sep 2009)

G-manUK said:


> I agree with will. Netherlands is great. Well maintained cycle tracks in the towns, and as you go out of town, the paths split away from the roads making them safer as the roads get faster. Also flat as a pancake, so great boring for touring holiday.



Corrected that for you....


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## Randochap (10 Sep 2009)

darkstar said:


> For me Canada has been the best place i've ridden, this trails around Whistler are sik! That was before i gave up down hilling




Well, of course, I'd love to agree with you. But as a Canadian who actually (normally) puts in 8-10,000 km a year on Canadian roads, I am still looking for the "best country."

As I noted above, France comes closest (agree though that road surfaces are often less than smooth -- a good argument for 650b).

Did you actually cycle here, darkstar, or just poke around the trails at Whistler on a MTB, which is not really cycling in Canada, but rather playing offroad in a closed resort environment?

Unfortunately, Canada is close to the US in its slavish worship of the automobile and has been slow to adopt the need for bicycle infrastructure in cities and on it's highways -- which, incidentally, are being crossed with abominable "rumble-strips."

By far the worst part about cycling here though is the indelible view that bicycles are toys better restricted to the sidewalk (pavement).

I've been waiting over 40 years now for this perception to change and I think it will be several more generations yet, or the fall of the Age of Oil, before things change considerably for the better.

The one consolation I have is that, going on my last visit, in 2007, Canada is a better place to ride than the UK, where I was lucky to grow up in the fading post-war period when bicycles were taken seriously as transportation and cars were few on the scenic roads of Shropshire. Unfortunately, Britain seems to have embraced the motor car and its "culture" (sic) with more single-mindedness than North America.

How lucky I was to have experienced that former version of the UK! I guess you could say I've been searching for that Pattersonesque, bucolic experience ever since.






I have indeed found that on more than one occasion here in Canada, particularly on the remote highways and byways of the north. Of course, the scenery is unparalleled and I recommend a cycling trip here without pause. As far as Canuck cycling cities go, Victoria and surrounding rural areas, as well as Vancouver, are the best we have to offer.

If only Canadians respected cyclists like the French; then we could boast a true cycling paradise.


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## Perfect Virgo (10 Sep 2009)

Excellent appraisal Rando and I am envious of the dramatic landscape out west. My experience of cycling in Canada is of Prince Edward Island for the past 3 years. P.E.I. is of course 20 years behind the times and the pace is pretty slack. Scenery on the island is no match for most of the rest of Canada but there is a nice mix of shoreline and country roads. The handful of towns are not cycle friendly but I just hold road position and wear a bright jersey!

The only two highways, Routes 1 and 2 are smooth and have wide shoulders. The inclines are haulage truck friendly. Get out onto the rural roads and it is a very different story. Most are rollers, straight as an arrow with 50% potholed, buckled and repaired while the other 50% are red dirt and unrideable on 23mm tyres.

Regarding treatment on the road, I find motorists still fall into two camps: the pickup and car drivers who give me a suspiciously wide berth as if I might react like a startled deer and skitter across the road; and the construction truckers who thunder past within a foot or two belching blue exhaust and sucking me into their slipstream.

On balance I prefer Canada for the decent shoulders, the lack of heavy traffic and the absence (in my experience at least) of serious aggression on the road.


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## longers (11 Sep 2009)

Are some of the logging wagons/trucks driven remotely in British Columbia? ie no driver. 
Not sure if I've picked up the wrong end of the stick somewhere.


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## Randochap (11 Sep 2009)

longers said:


> Are some of the logging wagons/trucks driven remotely in British Columbia? ie no driver.



It might seem that way sometimes. Fast-moving, heavily loaded logging trucks are indeed intimidating, but despite their penchant for passing closely -- expecting you to hold your line -- they can usually be trusted to drive safely.

By far the most frightening drivers on northern Canadian roads are Europeans who have rented big RVs (usually in Calgary, for some reason) and have no sense of the width of the vehicle they are driving. Be afraid of these.


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## Archie_tect (11 Sep 2009)

Denmark... drivers are considerate and unhurried- it's the pace of life in a rural environment that we loved. Cars move around slowly, max speed 50kph just about everywhere in towns and 80kph max on rural roads... bliss!


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## Randochap (11 Sep 2009)

Perfect Virgo said:


> Excellent appraisal Rando and I am envious of the dramatic landscape out west.



And I'm envious of Maritime country. I've wanted to tour Nova Scotia and Newfoundland for ages. Any idea what Gros Morne would be like? I'm thinking of Highway 430. Can't get much more dramatic landscapes than that, huh.

My grandkids are out there, so maybe in a year or two, after I heal up ...

Again, speaking of bumpy roads ... 650b.


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## darkstar (11 Sep 2009)

Randochap said:


> Did you actually cycle here, darkstar, or just poke around the trails at Whistler on a MTB, which is not really cycling in Canada, but rather playing offroad in a closed resort environment?
> .


I only spent 3 weeks around the Blackcomb region, used to be quite into Downhilling, competing sometimes until i dislocated a couple of vertebrae as well as my left shoulder. Then decided to give it up and after a fair bit of rehab time got into MtB XC. So i wasn't road cycling on the roads out there but the trails around that area are second to none in my opinion!


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## raindog (11 Sep 2009)

Banjo said:


> Britain may not be the most cycle friendly country but its still my favourite corner of the world.


I think alot of dissing the uk can be put down to "the grass is allways greener" syndrome. I've only got the fondest memories of club riding in my native Derbyshire. Also people go on holiday for a couple of weeks and see one tiny corner of another country and think it's paradise. Living there permanently might give a different picture.
Nice pics by the way.


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## Davidc (11 Sep 2009)

raindog said:


> I think alot of dissing the uk can be put down to "the grass is allways greener" syndrome. I've only got the fondest memories of club riding in my native Derbyshire. Also people go on holiday for a couple of weeks and see one tiny corner of another country and think it's paradise. Living there permanently might give a different picture.
> Nice pics by the way.



On some subjects - yes. Not this one though.


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## threebikesmcginty (11 Sep 2009)

Interesting to hear the Canadian view of cycling and how all that room doesn't always give you a better experience.

I haven't cycled in Canada but I did buy a race bike in New Jersey in the 90s and took it out and about there - the thing I found was that the roads were in a dreadful condition. I guess it's down to really hot summers and cold winters but they were really broken up.


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## jorgemartin (11 Sep 2009)

Davyo, did you use the north sea route in Germany? I'm planning of cycling from Paris to Hamburg in November as well. I hope to be as lucky as you were. What kind of accommodation did you use? I wonder if youth hostels will be open at that time of the year. Cheers



Dayvo said:


> (about Germany)
> The roads were very well sign-posted and had bike paths running parallel to major and busy roads; the ashphalt was in excellent condition; the drivers were considerate; there were plenty of good cafs and coffee stops along the way; the people were very friendly; the scenery was very pleasing on the eye, and it was cheap. And the weather was good all the time we were there (in November)!


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## jorgemartin (11 Sep 2009)

Davyo, did you use the north sea route in Germany? I'm planning of cycling from Paris to Hamburg in November as well. I hope to be as lucky as you were.  What kind of accommodation did you use? I wonder if youth hostels will be open at that time of the year. 



Dayvo said:


> (about Germany)
> The roads were very well sign-posted and had bike paths running parallel to major and busy roads; the ashphalt was in excellent condition; the drivers were considerate; there were plenty of good cafs and coffee stops along the way; the people were very friendly; the scenery was very pleasing on the eye, and it was cheap. And the weather was good all the time we were there (in November)!


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## Perfect Virgo (11 Sep 2009)

Randochap said:


> And I'm envious of Maritime country. I've wanted to tour Nova Scotia and Newfoundland for ages. Any idea what Gros Morne would be like? I'm thinking of Highway 430. Can't get much more dramatic landscapes than that, huh.
> 
> My grandkids are out there, so maybe in a year or two, after I heal up ...
> 
> Again, speaking of bumpy roads ... 650b.



Being a relative newcomer to this continent my travel experience is a bit limited. I haven't been to Newfoundland although it will be on the agenda at some stage. Gros Morne looks spectacular. It might be hard to keep your eyes on the road! I do know the island is very sparsely populated - barely half a million for an island half the size of Great Britain and Newfoundlers have a very hospitable reputation.

I have driven to Nova Scotia several times and the best touring country would be the northern peninsular of Cape Breton. We have camped there and it really is remote and beautiful. Reminded me geographically of the lower, pine-clad slopes of the French Alps. The "Cabot Trail," 100 plus miles of road, running around the perimeter gives exhilerating views over the Atlantic. We watched whales from a from a high vantage point.

I will continue to turn a wheel around P.E.I. until I summon the courage to head fiurther afield on my own. Until then I am getting my excitement vicariously from CG on a B!


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## Perfect Virgo (11 Sep 2009)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Interesting to hear the Canadian view of cycling and how all that room doesn't always give you a better experience.
> 
> I haven't cycled in Canada but I did buy a race bike in New Jersey in the 90s and took it out and about there - the thing I found was that the roads were in a dreadful condition. I guess it's down to really hot summers and cold winters but they were really broken up.



You're right about the ravages of the weather on the roads. When the snow finally recedes it is amazing to see how the tarmac has buckled and heaved. I used to think total repair would be necessary but a couple of weeks of temperatures just above zero and the traffic has rolled it flat again! However the summer heat soon makes the unstable surface shrink. July and August are characterised by road crews everywhere, doing their best to patch and mend.


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