# Would someone perhaps help this noobie out?



## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Forewarning: I'm *completely new* to bikes. Completely new as in I haven't really touched a bike since I was like five coming off of training wheels!

I found a really old geared Free Spirit on the street. It was completely useless. Part of the rims were eaten by rust, the grips literally cracked off by touch, flat tires, etc etc. My friend told me it'd be cheap to convert it into a fixie, and I did as much research a noob could do, and I'm almost positive I still don't know the half of it - call me ignorant for diving into this project without completely knowing the know.

I took apart the bike entirely, sanded and repainted the frame, determined what I needed and didn't need, as well as ordering myself some new parts while trying to keep within a reasonable budget. I ordered rims that came with hubs and a 16 T cog + tubes, a crankset (160mm as I am not that tall), a bottom bracket, and 1/8 chains. My tires, grips, and pedals didn't come in yet, and I'll get a brake system for the front later. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something? I've watched some videos on installing the bottom bracket, and I've noticed most frames had threads where they install their bottom bracket, and mine, well, it isn't the same (at least I don't think so). Can someone fill me in on as to what I'm needing to install the bottom bracket? Pardon my lack of knowledge 

I just finished putting spokes on one rim I'll do the other and attempt to true it a little later, so don't mind those :P








I also kept a somewhat photo journey on "Instagram" if anyone wants to pointlessly view it, but feel free to ignore, or point out any misdoings..


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## mrandmrspoves (12 Nov 2012)

forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/replacing-servicing-klein-bottom-bracket-unit-massive-pics-596176.html#post6647517

I haven't seen one in the flesh as it were..someone on here will know more than me but I guess you have a press in bottom bracket as per the link above. Good luck with the restoration.....


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Hm, that was a thread about taking apart his odd bottom bracket, but I'm not too sure if ours are the same as I totally didn't have to do that to take the previous one out. I'm probably missing the point because I had absolutely no idea as to what I was actually looking at or don't know how to take that info into account..

Thanks so much for the reply, though! I was literally staring at the computer screen desperately


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## mrandmrspoves (12 Nov 2012)

Hard to tell and only can see photo on my phone ..but no thread on either side makes me think it's a press fit. What did you do to remove the old one? ....and do you have pics of what you removed? Also....why are you still awake at this stupid time of the morning?


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Oh, if that defines a "press fit", then I supposed it is one, heh. I just used a wrench. I'm pretty sure I didn't have all the right tools, but I amazed myself as to what I can do with one wrench. Hm, I did keep a bucket of all the nuts and bolts and what not, I only threw away the break system as it was useless. Is that what you need a photo of? Aaaand.. I think I'm going to guess this is.. perhaps.. a forum based in the UK as you are from there? I'm from the US (8 almost 9 PM here). Apparently I'm also a noob with Google, and I just clicked anything that said "bicycle chat" without reading anything on it before signing up 

Why are YOU still awake at this stupid time of the morning? Either way, it's much appreciated that you are, thank heavens. Or you. Thank both?


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## mrandmrspoves (12 Nov 2012)

I had just come to the conclusion that you were in USA, because the Free Spirit range was made by Sears an American manufacturer. I have never seen one of their bikes here. Welcome to the Forum....I'm sure that one of the many more knowledgeable members on here will give you some help and advice soon..... but as it's quarter to 3 in the morning here, I guess you may have to wait until tomorrow evening (our time)
I should be asleep as have to leave for work in 4 hours - but have too much pain in my shoulders. 
Will try and rest so BFN (bye for now)


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Damn Americans and their silly bikes.. Well, thanks a bunch and good night!


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## Old Plodder (12 Nov 2012)

Welcome to the wonderful world of cycling.

Probably your best bet is to go & see the people at your lbs (local bike shop), take along your naked frame, & they should point you in the right direction as regards to what you will need. (It's always a good move to find a friendly bike shop, they give advice freely.)

Having said that, this forum is also a very good place for advice; things like your bottom bracket problem will get solved if you post pics of your problem area.

P.S. Not many people build their own wheels; when you put the spokes in, only turn the nipples about six turns each; then when you are bringing it into true, do so about two turns on each until the sloppiness goes, from then on only one half turn of each spoke until it comes up tight; the most important thing to do is to let the tension off the spokes, this is done by laying the wheel flat & pressing down on the rims, go all around the rim & then re check for trueness.

HTH


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## Panter (12 Nov 2012)

Sorry, can't offer any help at all but just wanted to wish you the best of luck.
You're doing, and attempting, jobs that I've never had the balls to tackle, maybe I need to just man up and get on with it 
Looking forward to seeing it completed


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Panter said:


> Sorry, can't offer any help at all but just wanted to wish you the best of luck.
> You're doing, and attempting, jobs that I've never had the balls to tackle, maybe I need to just man up and get on with it
> Looking forward to seeing it completed


 
I actually realized that I had a one piece crank, so I'll need to order myself a conversion kit 






I took off the bearing cups which I didn't notice I didn't take off in the first place, and then tried to fit the BB in to see if it'd fit through, but the protruding tube pieces are in the way, which is now the main problem because I concluded that if my BB doesn't fit now, it wouldn't fit even with the kit..






My debate now is wondering if grinding/filing/cutting the tubes off will allow the conversion kit to fit. My question now is if the BB shell's diameter, I think. I'm scared if I get the kit, it won't fit? Or are all shells pretty much the same in diameter, and the BB the only different component?

Oh, and thanks!! Will post up the finish product if I ever in my life finish it since I keep running into obstacles


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

fatmac said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of cycling.
> 
> Probably your best bet is to go & see the people at your lbs (local bike shop), take along your naked frame, & they should point you in the right direction as regards to what you will need. (It's always a good move to find a friendly bike shop, they give advice freely.)
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the welcoming! I'm from a small town, so I don't really have an access to a bike shop. Not easily, anyway, but then, that wouldn't make it a "local" bike shop, but thanks for that.

Hm, I didn't know people don't often build their own wheels, it's kind of fun and relaxing. I do know about the even distributing twist of the nipples, though. I got the hang of the under under over pattern pretty easily. I used my valve hole as a guide, started off with the drive side, threaded the spoke from inside first, skipped every other hole and inserting into every forth hole for the first set of 8, then threaded the other set from the outside and etc etc. I was almost positive that I was consistent with the nipples, but my hub seems to be.. not centered. I noticed because I tried to twist the nipples onto the spokes until I couldn't see the thread anymore. I'll redo it later 

I was told this project as a whole is "easy". I think they meant easy for bike experts, or people who are actually familiar with bikes...


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the replies, guys!


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## SquareDaff (12 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> Oh, and thanks!! Will post up the finish product if I ever in my life finish it since I keep running into obstacles


Welcome to the wonderful world of DIY bike maintenance. 
Just got my commuter back on the road after the rear axle collapsed and, like you, I kept hitting problems.

It IS worth it in the end when you get your bike on the road due to your own efforts though!


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## Old Plodder (12 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> ....I was told this project as a whole is "easy". I think they meant easy for bike experts, or people who are actually familiar with bikes...


It is if it's a 'normal' frame.  One piece bottom brackets were only fitted to cheap bikes over here (England), they came from the BMX world.
It may be easier & cheaper to fit a one piece into your frame. Keep the ones you bought for your next project, , cycling can get adictive.

(I'm told there are wheelbuilding videos on youtube; they may be of help to you.)

All the best.


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

SquareDaff said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of DIY bike maintenance.
> Just got my commuter back on the road after the rear axle collapsed and, like you, I kept hitting problems.
> 
> It IS worth it in the end when you get your bike on the road due to your own efforts though!




Heh, yeah, I'm expecting to feel like a million bucks as the wind brushes against my hair once this silly hassle is over with!


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

fatmac said:


> It is if it's a 'normal' frame.  One piece bottom brackets were only fitted to cheap bikes over here (England), they came from the BMX world.
> It may be easier & cheaper to fit a one piece into your frame. Keep the ones you bought for your next project, , cycling can get adictive.
> 
> (I'm told there are wheelbuilding videos on youtube; they may be of help to you.)
> ...



Yeah, I just haaad to say, "OOH! Free bike!". I took it in, and became obsess with tinkering this little Frankenstein of mine!

There are videos, where'd you think I sort of learned  A full on beginner can't magically know how to put on spokes!


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## fimm (12 Nov 2012)

Sheldon Brown (which I see you've found already) seems to be the authority on all things bike maintainance.
Good luck, and have fun!


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## SquareDaff (12 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> Heh, yeah, I'm expecting to feel like a million bucks as the wind brushes against my hair once this silly hassle is over with!


Not something I'm ever likely to experience again (see photo)


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## wanda2010 (12 Nov 2012)

Hi Pavena, I'm on a self-imposed coffee break at work, so just popping in to say well done for having the guts to take on that task. I look forward to seeing the finished product.


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## GrumpyGregry (12 Nov 2012)

I suspect once upon a time that frame had an Ashtabula crank. Sheldon will put you straight. As will the Park Tool company. Just google it. Fairly common on Stateside department store bikes. Not so common on anything but BMX bikes on this side of the pond.

Do keep us informed and well done on the story so far.


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## naminder (12 Nov 2012)

I haven't got a clue how to help you, but kudos for having a go 
Look forward to seeing photos of it completed


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

Ahh! Thank all of you for the care and support to my silly little project! Now I definitely feel obligated to finish and show you the finish product :P When all is said and done, I'll want to hug all of you and put you in my pocket


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## wanda2010 (12 Nov 2012)

I'm that short I'd probably fit in said pocket  

Partly inspired by you I managed to tighten the chain on my SS earlier this evening using a tennis ball and only managed to swear a few times, until I realised the nut was a tad worn but I found a replacement 

Anyway, awaiting the next instalment of your project


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## pavena (12 Nov 2012)

wanda2010 said:


> I'm that short I'd probably fit in said pocket
> 
> Partly inspired by you I managed to tighten the chain on my SS earlier this evening using a tennis ball and only managed to swear a few times, until I realised the nut was a tad worn but I found a replacement
> 
> Anyway, awaiting the next instalment of your project


 
Good! My pocket awaits you!  

Aw stop it, I'm blushing!  

TENNIS BALL?! DO EXPLAIN THIS MAGICAL GREATNESS!


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## wanda2010 (12 Nov 2012)

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/the-tennis-ball-trick-for-single-speed-bikes/

The above article explains better than I can.


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## pavena (14 Nov 2012)

So far, 








Quick wheel talk, pretty please?






Okay, so I've been lacing for days trying to figure out a pattern other than the basic under-under-over ordeal, but I was wondering.. I know that crossing the spokes makes the wheel stronger and sturdier, but my question is, is it MANDATORY to have the spokes crossed? What happens if I don't interlace them together?


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## Panter (14 Nov 2012)

Love the ear muff


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## pavena (14 Nov 2012)

Panter said:


> Love the ear muff


 
Isn't he the cutest? He wanted to say hi!


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> So far,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


certain hubs and certain rims make it easier to build a strong wheel without crossing but I'd always suggest a beginner starts with a three cross build 

This book http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php is always at my side when building wheels.


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## Christopher (14 Nov 2012)

Pavena:
Main thing to remember when deciding on a spoking pattern is that you don't have much leeway with spoke lengths, in other words if you have spokes, say, 296mm long then there is only 1-2 patterns you can build with them with the same hub and wheel.
Far as patterns go, I have only built a radial wheel with a hub that is specifically intended for it, but I have also done 1x, 2x and 3x patterns using normal hubs with no problems, and I am 14 stone.


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## pavena (14 Nov 2012)

Bad idea, right?


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## Old Plodder (14 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> Quick wheel talk, pretty please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Simple answer; you lose some of the wheels strength.
Front wheels can be built radially, if you are a carefull cyclist; but I would stick to 2X or 3X.
Rear wheels are usually heavily loaded so require strength, 3X or 4X. I sometimes had 3X & 4X (driveside) to equalise tension on the spokes themselves.
As a beginner, I suggest you stick to 3X front & rear.

(If you are still having lacing problems; fit the driveside pulling spokes first, then the static spokes; then fit the spokes on the other side.)
HTH.


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## BigSteev (14 Nov 2012)

Hi! First off, well done for diving in and having a go. You'll learn loads along the way which is always good.

I've just read through the thread and thought I'd see what I could add.
The bottom bracket is (as correctly id'ed) a press fit, one-piece crank bottom bracket, familiar to anyone who rode BMX back in the day, and the converter you pictured will do the job of converting it to fit a standard Euro BB.
As far as wheel lacing goes, you can lace a front wheel radially (zero crossing) unless it's going to be a disc brake wheel but the rear needs to have at least 2x so that when torque is applied to the pedals it will actually transmit the power to the rim rather than twisting the hub within the rim.


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## pavena (15 Nov 2012)

Duly noted! Thanks fellow friends!


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## Rob3rt (15 Nov 2012)

lol, rabbit! Thought it was a fat ferret until I scrolled enough to spot the tail!


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## Christopher (15 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> Bad idea, right?


 Er I am not sure the wheel in the foreground is safe to ride, as all the spokes appear to be going in the same direction. The only thing to stop the hub untwisting clockwise and the wheel failing are spokes working in compression and that isn't ideal. Can you not swop half the spokes around so they work the other way?


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## Old Plodder (15 Nov 2012)

Christopher said:


> Er I am not sure the wheel in the foreground is safe to ride, as all the spokes appear to be going in the same direction. The only thing to stop the hub untwisting clockwise and the wheel failing are spokes working in compression and that isn't ideal. Can you not swop half the spokes around so they work the other way?


In a 36 spoked wheel, 9 spokes face each way each side. 

You need to study that/those videos again! 

(You should have inserted 9 pulling spokes, followed by 9 static spokes, turned the wheel over, & then inserted 9 of each on that side too.)

This is why not many people build their own wheels, it can get complicated until you've done a few.


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Nov 2012)

Pavena!
Love your Bunny and your project: you gonna be a master bike engineer me thinks.
Good luck, keep us posted, I would like to give wheel building a try one day


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## pavena (24 Nov 2012)

ALRIGHT! Time for some catching up. Sorry guys, I was out of town for an interview, and I don't wanna brag, but guess who got into med school?! 

Anyway.

So, I filed off those annoying tubes. My adapter came in, tried to fit it in, but it still stuck out. A lot of you said not to file down the second wall in the BB shell, but it was in the way, so I had to file that down as well. The tips for the Dremel my friend had sucked, so I had to resort to the yellow elephant. HOW ANNOYING TO KEEP WAITING FOR THE PSI GAUGE TO GO UP BEFORE GOING AT IT. My hands were literally numb! Anyway, hammered the betch in and after several silly attempts, I FINALLY GOT IT, DAMNIT! 

I fked up my paint job, but honestly, I don't even give a sht anymore, I was so frustrated! 






Now, someone made me aware of spacing issues?


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## Pottsy (25 Nov 2012)

Med school? Tell us more.

No idea on spacing issues, obvs.


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## pavena (25 Nov 2012)

No big, surgical student. 

Oh, hm, I don't remember who told me, but someone said there could be a spacing issue with my crank arm or something along those lines.


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## wanda2010 (25 Nov 2012)

Congratulations on med school! 

Sorry I can't help with the spacing issues


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## hoski (27 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> Oh, hm, I don't remember who told me, but someone said there could be a spacing issue with my crank arm or something along those lines.


 
Could they have been referring to clearance between your crank and chainstays? Presumably as you've had to fit an adapter, etc to fit your bottom bracket there could have been issues there, i.e. your crank hitting the frame

The other spacing issue with FG/SS would be chainline - there's tons of information out there on this


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## Davywalnuts (27 Nov 2012)

pavena said:


> No big, surgical student.
> 
> Oh, hm, I don't remember who told me, but someone said there could be a spacing issue with my crank arm or something along those lines.


 
Am guessing, but looking over the frame pictures, what was sais maybe more along the lines of the 'chain line'.. and the 'spacing' on the rear hub where your cog or freewheel goes and the width of your BB.. I cant see the length of your crank arms you mentioned being a problem.. 

If you are using track specific hubs, ie, fixed/ss specific ones, am sure the issue will more be to do with your bb width.. But I've only built up using a track specific frame... not a conversion. And I have skim read this thread so maybe repeating whats already been said/known..


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## simon.r (27 Nov 2012)

Google 'snowflake lacing' - the possibilities are endless


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## jim55 (2 Dec 2012)

simon.r said:


> Google 'snowflake lacing' - the possibilities are endless


that looks superb ,iv never seen that before


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## Old Plodder (4 Dec 2012)

I thought I had already commented on that, but apparently didn't, it was a (70's ?) trend for a couple of years in the USofA.
Someone didn't have the right length spokes & was in a hurry to rebuild his wheel for an MTB race, I think he only had 4 spokes like that in his wheel though, but it started a short lived 'fashion'.


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## pavena (29 Jan 2015)

Years later....... Almost done hahahah


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## mrandmrspoves (29 Jan 2015)

Great to see you're not defeated......keep on at it......and we can look forward to seeing the finished product........In 2017!

But seriously - looking good, so we'll done you!


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## pavena (29 Jan 2015)

mrandmrspoves said:


> Great to see you're not defeated......keep on at it......and we can look forward to seeing the finished product........In 2017!
> 
> But seriously - looking good, so we'll done you!


Oh my goshhhh wow thanks so much for the reply it means a lot. Yeah, I've been so busy I completely left my project in the dark and finally got back to it this month! I should be done in a day or so! Take care


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## Paul.G. (29 Jan 2015)

pavena said:


> Years later....... Almost done hahahah


Cool bike, nice one!!


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## arch684 (29 Jan 2015)

pavena said:


> Years later....... Almost done hahahah


More pics when it's finished please


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## mrandmrspoves (29 Jan 2015)

pavena said:


> Oh my goshhhh wow thanks so much for the reply it means a lot. Yeah, I've been so busy I completely left my project in the dark and finally got back to it this month! I should be done in a day or so! Take care



When we last heard from you, you had got a place at med school - so if you're still on that course you have a great excuse for the slight (!) delay in completing your project. 
Reading the original thread reminded me of how I was back then - as I was getting about 4 hours sleep a night max due to my shoulders - still not great, but I get about 6 now!


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## Panter (29 Jan 2015)

Well done, looks superb! I'd completely forgotten about this thread!
It took me well over a Year to build my full susser, no pint rushing these things eh!


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## Scotchlovingcylist (15 Mar 2015)

I've lost count of all the bits I've got kicking around.
Time is of no importance


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