# Simon Cowell



## Stonechat (9 Aug 2020)

Has broken his back falling off new e bike in his courtyard.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Aug 2020)

Britain's Got Traction....


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

Wow, that doesn't sound great. 

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity...n-back-health-malibu-hospital-BGT-latest-news


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## wafter (9 Aug 2020)

I never really liked e-bikes, however....


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

He'd be better of not getting surgery. I'm glad I didn't - wouldn't fancy the metal work.


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## screenman (9 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> I never really liked e-bikes, however....



Nasty.


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## Drago (9 Aug 2020)

The deep irony here is that his hairdo looks like a cycle helmet.


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## HMS_Dave (9 Aug 2020)

After a crash investigation they found fragments of his flares in the chain...


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## BoldonLad (9 Aug 2020)

The headline says "broken", the article says "injured".

Not a fan of his, but, hopefully, it is "injured" not "broken".


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## Drago (9 Aug 2020)

BBC and CNN saying "broken". I doubt that anyone other than Cowell and his orthapaedic surgeon know for sure.


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## HMS_Dave (9 Aug 2020)

A broken back does vary in severity mind. From a cracked vertebrae (painful but not necessarily dangerous) to multiple fractures and damaged (or worse) severed spinal cord... Id wager he has a cracked vertebrae or 2. If he has damaged his face however, he won't be seen in public until they inject more cement into it to prop it back up...


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> He'd be better of not getting surgery. I'm glad I didn't - wouldn't fancy the metal work.




Couldnt agree more....i certainly regret it


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## sheddy (9 Aug 2020)

The Oops Factor.


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## CanucksTraveller (9 Aug 2020)

I wish him well and a speedy recovery, I met him about 10 years ago and we had a good 30 minute conversation about all sorts. I got the firm impression in that time that he was genuinely likeable and a normal (albeit very well off) guy. I think the stage persona is exactly that, he's been playing a pantomime villain part for many years because it's what people (especially ITV viewers) want, particularly in that show. Like all pantomimes and many films, those panel shows aimed at a certain mentality need a convincing villain.


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## Cycleops (9 Aug 2020)

I wonder if his ego was badly bruised.


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> Couldnt agree more....i certainly regret it



It's massive decision. Specialist said, 'I can operate tomorrow, and we can have you walking straight away, or you might never walk again. You can move your feet now. Or we can treat conservatively, and you'll have to lie there for a few weeks'. I said I'll stay here unless something changes.

Pain since has been easier to treat as the medics have said that they don't need to look into the metalwork causing issues (there is none). I've still got very good movement in my back. Not perfect, but hey ho, I'm walking, running, cycling.


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## Soltydog (9 Aug 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I wish him well and a speedy recovery, I met him about 10 years ago and we had a good 30 minute conversation about all sorts. I got the firm impression in that time that he was genuinely likeable and a normal (albeit very well off) guy. I think the stage persona is exactly that, he's been playing a pantomime villain part for many years because it's what people (especially ITV viewers) want, particularly in that show. Like all pantomimes and many films, those panel shows aimed at a certain mentality need a convincing villain.


I'm not an X factor fan at all & not sure he plays the pantomime villain, he just tells it as it is sometimes, although he seems to have mellowed recently  Hope his back injury isn't too serious & maybe he should consider a 'normal' bicycle without the extra power


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## CanucksTraveller (9 Aug 2020)

Soltydog said:


> He just tells it as it is sometimes...



True, and maybe that's why I liked him. If I was dealing with a constant stream of the self absorbed and deluded I'd be tempted to be generous with the truth too.


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## HMS_Dave (9 Aug 2020)

News has it that he's had a metal rod installed in his back and he'd broken numerous vertebrae...


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## numbnuts (9 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> He'd be better of not getting surgery. I'm glad I didn't - wouldn't fancy the metal work.


I did and I'm still here........Just


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

I seriously hope he has better luck with it than i have


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> I seriously hope he has better luck with it than i have
> View attachment 540747


What are we looking at?


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> What are we looking at?



Fog !


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> What are we looking at?



a poorly focused X-ray by looks of things


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

just realised how crap that pic is look at the bottom of pic, the metalwork at base of my spine , i will find a better pic


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

I've got a 'cracking' picture of mine - pun intended.


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> just realised how crap that pic is look at the bottom of pic, the metalwork at base of my spine , i will find a better pic


Would be interesting. 👍


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)




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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

strange looks clear untill i upload it


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> strange looks clear untill i upload it


What's happening and why did you need the metal work?


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## HMS_Dave (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> I seriously hope he has better luck with it than i have
> View attachment 540747


Ive cleared the image up with highly sophisticated equipment and this is what i have....


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

Oof, is that near your pelvis ? Mine was T12/L1 level and would have been over 4 vertebrae ! No ta. The guy I was in with, his spine collapsed a year after his injury and had some serious metal work then, but he'd broken his back a few times (found on scans) that he didn't know about - he was a builder.


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> What's happening and why did you need the metal work?



He broked it !😄


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> What's happening and why did you need the metal work?




see here

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/there-is-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel.164232/


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> Oof, is that near your pelvis


 it is


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> I've got a 'cracking' picture of mine - pun intended.


 cmon we like pics


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## fossyant (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> cmon we like pics



I'll have a ganders....


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> see here
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/there-is-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel.164232/


Sounds horrific.


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## roadrash (9 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Sounds horrific.




it was and still is , but its something i just have to get on with, surgeon wants to go in again but i refused, i didnt get the benefits he more or less guaranteed the last time, so i certainly aint going through it again


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## Slick (9 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> it was and still is , but its something i just have to get on with, surgeon wants to go in again but i refused, i didnt get the benefits he more or less guaranteed the last time, so i certainly aint going through it again


I assume a fair bit of pain and medication and restricted movement?

Did you ever get back on the road bike?


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## snorri (9 Aug 2020)

I'll leave, feeling a bit faint


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## roadrash (10 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Did you ever get back on the road bike?




yes i did, but not as often as i would like, i can have periods where i dont touch the bike for weeks


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## Drago (10 Aug 2020)

According to the news this morning, it sadly seems that Slimon Cowbell is going to be OK.


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## Pale Rider (10 Aug 2020)

Cowell is saying he should have read the manual, but he's had ebikes since 2017 so should know what he is doing by now.

Perhaps it was a new one with a system unfamiliar to him.

https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/simon-cowell-buys-electric-bikes-1103748.html


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Aug 2020)

I wonder how fast he was going when he came off? Doesn't sound like just a clumsy low speed topple-off sort of mishap.


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## Drago (10 Aug 2020)

It's been described on ITV news as an "electric scrambler bike", some wondering if it was more of an electric motorcycle than a pedelec.


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## fossyant (10 Aug 2020)

Seen the news, it was an electric MX bike, with pedals stuck on. Capable of 60 mph, and no doubt, has some torque that will pop you off the back.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Aug 2020)

So not really a normal e-bike in the accepted sense of the word then. Cowell had a motorcycling accident, which tends to explain the degree of injuries.


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## cyberknight (10 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> So not really a normal e-bike in the accepted sense of the word then. Cowell had a motorcycling accident, which tends to explain the degree of injuries.


and people are calling for faster e bike legislation,


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## PK99 (10 Aug 2020)

apparently this is the model of bike he was riding....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-CAB-Recon-/113700700899


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## ColinJ (10 Aug 2020)

PK99 said:


> apparently this is the model of bike he was riding....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-CAB-Recon-/113700700899


Hmm...



Product eBay blurb said:


> The Recon is the most powerful production ebike on the planet, it is a wheelie machine! When we say wheelie machine, we mean throttle wheelie...you do not have to pull up, as a matter of fact you may want to lean forward!


Reckon that he didn't _lean forward_...? 

Anyway, good luck to him.


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## slowmotion (11 Aug 2020)

I heard it was a SWIND EB-01. A 60mph,






$20,000 jobbie.

Anyway, having suffered a fair bit of back pain in the past, I wish him a speedy recovery.

Edit: Here's the blurb....

https://swind.life/products/swind-eb-01-mountain/

Fifteen kilowatts!!!!!!!!


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## Pale Rider (11 Aug 2020)

KTM make something similar, but they are more honest about it, describing it as an electric motorcycle.

From what I can gather, it has about the same amount of grunt as a 200cc petrol engine.

http://www.drysdalemotorcycles.co.uk/new/bike/5767/freeride-e/679553/freeride-e-xc-2020.aspx


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## HMS_Dave (11 Aug 2020)

PK99 said:


> apparently this is the model of bike he was riding....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-CAB-Recon-/113700700899


It's good to know then that his only lesson from the whole debacle was to read the manual


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## steveindenmark (11 Aug 2020)

I like how he put his hands up to being a bit stupid. But I must admit to being as stupid as him. Who reads a bike manual before they ride it? Not me 😊 I think broken back will be a stretch of the truth. But probably painful.

Didnt the inventor of the Segway, die riding a Segway. We can all get caught out.


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## Slick (11 Aug 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> I like how he put his hands up to being a bit stupid. But I must admit to being as stupid as him. Who reads a bike manual before they ride it? Not me 😊 I think broken back will be a stretch of the truth. But probably painful.
> 
> Didnt the inventor of the Segway, die riding a Segway. We can all get caught out.


Did he not fall off a cliff testing a new off road version?


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## sheddy (11 Aug 2020)

When I was a boy, a dc motor produced maximum torque at zero rpm. What possibly could go wrong ?

I guess the software should intervene to slow it down.


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## CXRAndy (11 Aug 2020)

cyberknight said:


> and people are calling for faster e bike legislation,



I must say, its completely different. The request to a limit lift to 20 mph in line with parts of Europe and USA is not the same as a 60+ mph electric motorcycle. 

Its more to do with acceleration than speed, I've never seen a e-bike do a power wheelie


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## raleighnut (11 Aug 2020)

sheddy said:


> When I was a boy, a dc motor produced maximum torque at zero rpm. What possibly could go wrong ?
> 
> I guess the software should intervene to slow it down.


They're generally 3 phase 'Hall Effect' brushless motors these days.


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## ColinJ (11 Aug 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> I think broken back will be a stretch of the truth. But probably painful.


It was bad enough to require hours of surgery to insert a metal rod in his spine, so I don't think "broken back" _is _much of a stretch. Obviously, his spinal cord wasn't damaged.



steveindenmark said:


> Didnt the inventor of the Segway, die riding a Segway. We can all get caught out.


It wasn't the inventor, it was a British businessman who bought the company.



Slick said:


> Did he not fall off a cliff testing a new off road version?


Sort of...


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## cyberknight (11 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> I must say, its completely different. The request to a limit lift to 20 mph in line with parts of Europe and USA is not the same as a 60+ mph electric motorcycle.
> 
> Its more to do with acceleration than speed, I've never seen a e-bike do a power wheelie


I wasn't sure what he was on at the time all I knew was overpowered e bike so I just assumed it was a modded overated one not a machine that is basically a e motorcycle with cranks.the premise still stands


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Aug 2020)

HMS_Dave said:


> It's good to know then that his only lesson from the whole debacle was to read the manual



Men are not genetically designed to read instruction manuals, especially not until *after* using the thing the manual relates to. Men just jump in and fiddle around and hope for the best. Usually, this approach seems to work OK......


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## raleighnut (11 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Men just jump in and fiddle around and hope for the best.


Sounds like what a lot of women say about sex.


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## CXRAndy (12 Aug 2020)

cyberknight said:


> I wasn't sure what he was on at the time all I knew was overpowered e bike so I just assumed it was a modded overated one not a machine that is basically a e motorcycle with cranks.the premise still stands



You're using a E motorcycle to argue an E-bike(cycle) shouldn't have the speed lifted. 

I've yet to read of research that there is a disproportionate increase in KSI from riders using 20 mph e-bike compared to 15.6 mph 

There is a very good argument that an e-bike should be able to match the speed limit, 20 mph would be appropriate in towns and cities with lots of councils now introducing 20 mph as the standard. This would go a long way to negating drivers overtaking cyclists- safer for vulnerable road users. 

Have you seen the consultation on the revised highway code? It proposes to offer greater protections to vulnerable road users. One example, riders on narrower roads use the centre of the lane to help prevent squeeze by situations. 

Have you ridden an e-bike, even a modded one? The acceleration is not brake neck, and certainly nothing compared to 200 hp motorcycle- Ive got one V-max 

Sub 10 sec 1/4 miles 
View: https://youtu.be/hdV3bLoCUz8


Now, an E motorcycle can do those types of accelerations. Here is something similar to Cowell's bike against a Tesla model 3 Performance. https://electrek.co/2020/08/11/tesla-model-y-vs-sur-ron-electric-motorbike-ev-drag-race/

Yes the Tesla won, but boy didn't the e-motorcycle shift.


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## Drago (12 Aug 2020)

I don't know why people prattle on about increasing the assistance speed limit on ebikes. If that's what they want, get a speed pedelec, do all the paperwork, get insurance, and away you go.

But that requires a bit of effort and expense, and there are always people that want to both have their cake and eat it.

Ps - I wish I could afford to keep buying back tyres to enable me to ride my '91 V-Max like that.


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## neil earley (12 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> I don't know why people prattle on about increasing the assistance speed limit on ebikes. If that's what they want, get a speed pedelec, do all the paperwork, get insurance, and away you go.
> 
> But that requires a bit of effort and expense, and there are always people that want to both have their cake and eat it.
> 
> Ps - I wish I could afford to keep buying back tyres to enable me to ride my '91 V-Max like that.


Oops someone doesn't like e bikes


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## Drago (12 Aug 2020)

Dont be daft - I own an ebike.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> KTM make something similar, but they are more honest about it, describing it as an electric motorcycle.
> 
> From what I can gather, it has about the same amount of grunt as a 200cc petrol engine.
> 
> http://www.drysdalemotorcycles.co.uk/new/bike/5767/freeride-e/679553/freeride-e-xc-2020.aspx


These are hilarious fun 


View: https://youtu.be/9v1NyQyYXns


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## Pale Rider (12 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Dont be daft - I own an ebike.


You are spot on about there being a good case that 20mph ebikes would be safer overall in towns and cities.

Plus a driver who has not been frustrated with his encounter with an ebike is less likely to have a car to car or car to pedestrian collision further down the road.


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## cyberknight (12 Aug 2020)

If people want a faster e bike then let them as long as they have the appropriate insurance , VED and CBT test etc i have no quibble ,raising the limit to 20 is getting into 2 stroke chicken chaser speed .


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

cyberknight said:


> If people want a faster e bike then let them as long as they have the appropriate insurance , VED and CBT test etc i have no quibble ,raising the limit to 20 is getting into 2 stroke chicken chaser speed .


an ebike can go as fast as you can pedal it. Mine has been upto 50mph downhill and near 30mph on the flat, at those speeds there is NO assistance.........so no insurance, ved and cbt required, so why should i require them to get 20mph assist??


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## cyberknight (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> an ebike can go as fast as you can pedal it. Mine has been upto 50mph downhill and near 30mph on the flat, at those speeds there is NO assistance.........so no insurance, ved and cbt required, so why should i require them to get 20mph assist??


I am aiming my thoughts at the many who buy an e bike who are not fit cyclists and want to bomb about as fast as they can with no thought to the general populace , i count people on here with having some common sense but i believe most given the chance will fall into the more powah mode without thought for anyone else.


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

cyberknight said:


> I am aiming my thoughts at the many who buy an e bike who are not fit cyclists and want to bomb about as fast as they can with no thought to the general populace , i count people on here with having some common sense but i believe most given the chance will fall into the more powah mode without thought for anyone else.


I believe your aiming your thoughts to ebikers who require more assistance than 15.6mph and would like the 20mph assistance that is allowable within the US.....it’s irrelevant that some are members of this forum.

and even if 20mph of assistance is given by an ebike it’s still far less than the speeds that can be reached on a pedal bike, that can weigh the same and be ridden by those same riders that you elude to be thinking of


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## glasgowcyclist (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> I believe your aiming your thoughts to ebikers who require more assistance than 15.6mph and would like the 20mph assistance that is allowable within the US.....



My understanding was that the 20mph limit (allowed in the US) you refer to is not the point at which pedalling no longer becomes assisted, it's the cut off for the speed attainable under electric power alone, i.e. without pedalling. Is that not correct?


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## sheddy (12 Aug 2020)

Unfortunately there’s a desire from many yoofs who see a modded ebike as a means of getting about without the cost, discipline and responsibility that comes from owning and using a licensed vehicle.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Aug 2020)

EAPC's* electrically-assisted pedal cycles*

are only assisted to 15.5mph while pedalling.. The SWIND that Simon was riding might as well have footrests.

There's a big difference between them


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> My understanding was that the 20mph limit (allowed in the US) you refer to is not the point at which pedalling no longer becomes assisted, it's the cut off for the speed attainable under electric power alone, i.e. without pedalling. Is that not correct?


Incorrect....it’s the max assisted speed limit whilst pedalling, once over that limit, no assistance and all pedalling.


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

sheddy said:


> Unfortunately there’s a desire from many yoofs who see a modded ebike as a means of getting about without the cost, discipline and responsibility that comes from owning and using a licensed vehicle.


But they can do that now with any ebike......irrelevant to any assist speed limit, so that argument is void


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## Drago (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> an ebike can go as fast as you can pedal it. Mine has been upto 50mph downhill and near 30mph on the flat, at those speeds there is NO assistance.........


Was that when you were giving Elvis a backy round to Lord Lucan's house? 👍


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## gbb (12 Aug 2020)

Not having seen any definitive proof of the type of bike he actually has, it's a bit confusing one article says he brought 2x £2000 ebikes and others state bikes capable of 60mph at a cost IRI £20,000....
Not very clear is it ?


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## HMS_Dave (12 Aug 2020)

Im not entirely sure what difference any current or future legislation regarding pedelecs or whatever will make when there is little to no enforcement, or desire to... Nothing at all stopping me going on Ebay right now, buying a 1500w system for my fat bike, sticking a 250w CE sticker on it and going out at whatever speeds other than my desire to not break the law... The police don't know what they are looking at, they're probably not interested and/or too busy doing something else to be pulling over bicycles which look suspiciously fast. Not that i condone such behaviour or breaking of laws as i personally wouldn't either, but the reality is, there are little to no convictions. What makes it worse is the police would surely need to prove it also, so that means taking the bike away to some sort of testing facility to get the accurate figures for a court of law. Sadly, convictions are only ever going to be likely after someone is seriously injured or worse, in my opinion...


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## glasgowcyclist (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Incorrect....it’s the max assisted speed limit whilst pedalling, once over that limit, no assistance and all pedalling.



Have you got a reference for that? I'll have a look through my notes but it would be useful if you had the relevant legislation to hand.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Aug 2020)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/pdfs/uksi_20150024_en.pdf


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Was that when you were giving Elvis a backy round to Lord Lucan's house? 👍


And a big bull from the local field ready for the aboitoire..........I likes my beef innit


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Have you got a reference for that? I'll have a look through my notes but it would be useful if you had the relevant legislation to hand.



i hope this helps and jogs your memory


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## CXRAndy (12 Aug 2020)

There are two basic electric assist. One is speed assist where as long as the pedals are rotating, the motor will give max assistance to that selected level. 

Torque sensing system multiplies the riders input, so even with max level assist, if the rider soft pedals the power the motor gives will be low. 

You can out pace the speed limit and on both systems the motor switches off and require full user input to go faster.

I prefer the torque sensing version, because it needs more than just soft pedalling to get the speed


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## roadrash (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> an ebike can go as fast as you can pedal it. Mine has been upto 50mph downhill and near 30mph on the flat, at those speeds there is NO assistance.........so no insurance, ved and cbt required, so why should i require them to get 20mph assist??



i realise i may be going out on a limb here but........
so no insurance, ved and cbt required, so why should i require them to get 20mph assist??

maybe..... just maybe.... because the law says so .


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## slowmotion (12 Aug 2020)

gbb said:


> Not having seen any definitive proof of the type of bike he actually has, it's a bit confusing one article says he brought 2x £2000 ebikes and others state bikes capable of 60mph at a cost IRI £20,000....
> Not very clear is it ?


Surely, you're not expecting CCers to give up their long-held tradition of wild speculation?????


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

roadrash said:


> i realise i may be going out on a limb here but........
> so no insurance, ved and cbt required, so why should i require them to get 20mph assist??
> 
> maybe..... just maybe.... because the law says so .


At the moment the law doesn’t say so......as ebikes are 15.5mph limit


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## BoldonLad (12 Aug 2020)

I am not a legal expert, but, presumably, lack of legal requirement for Insurance, does not exempt riders of these machines (in UK) from legal liability for their actions, including a “duty of care”, to the rest of us?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Aug 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> I am not a legal expert, but, presumably, lack of legal requirement for Insurance, does not exempt riders of these machines (in UK) from legal liability for their actions, including a “duty of care”, to the rest of us?


Much the same as a normal pedal cycle. The only reason motoring carries mandatory insurance is the damages done often exceed personal finance.


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> I am not a legal expert, but, presumably, lack of legal requirement for Insurance, does not exempt riders of these machines (in UK) from legal liability for their actions, including a “duty of care”, to the rest of us?


Legal liability of what actions??? Riding a bike????


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## Drago (12 Aug 2020)

Yes, I think that's what he meant. As we all know, youd be very unlikely indeed to kill someone, but riding a bike can go wrong and it is well within the realms of possibilty that a third party could be injured or their property damaged, and as cyclists we are liable for that, potentially either criminally or civilly if we are at fault. 

We have a duty of care not to be deliberately careless or reckless with our behaviour with respect to other people and their property, and that doesn't change just because we've sat astride a bicycle.


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## BoldonLad (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Legal liability of what actions??? Riding a bike????



Riding recklessly or irresponsibly etc, in much the same way as the catch all “obstructing the Queens Highway”. My point being that yet more legislation is not necessary, enforcement of existing legislation is (necessary).


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Riding recklessly or irresponsibly etc, in much the same way as the catch all “obstructing the Queens Highway”. My point being that yet more legislation is not necessary, enforcement of existing legislation is (necessary).


Whose riding recklessly or irresponsibly????? Are you in the right thread


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## BoldonLad (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Whose riding recklessly or irresponsibly????? Are you in the right thread



I didn’t say that ANYONE was riding irresponsibly. Up thread there is discussion of speeds, power etc reference e-bikes, and, insurance, VED, etc. i was merely suggesting that mayhem could be avoided, without recourse to more rules and regulations. IMHO, of course.


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## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> I didn’t say that ANYONE was riding irresponsibly. Up thread there is discussion of speeds, power etc reference e-bikes, and, insurance, VED, etc. i was merely suggesting that mayhem could be avoided, without recourse to more rules and regulations. IMHO, of course.


Only thing that was ref: was speed of assist on an ebike that’s within the regulations, some want the regulations changed for a more US type of speed. So no one is riding irresponsibly.........

my ref to speed was why am I allowed to ride a road bike upwards of 30mph and 50mph downhill, but only allowed an assist speed on my ebike of 15.5mph???

obviously after 15.5mph the bike must be pedalled unassisted, but the same bike is still able to go 20,25,30,35,40......mph, so what difference will an extra 4.5mph of assist cause???


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## BoldonLad (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Only thing that was ref: was speed of assist on an ebike that’s within the regulations, some want the regulations changed for a more US type of speed. So no one is riding irresponsibly.........
> 
> my ref to speed was why am I allowed to ride a road bike upwards of 30mph and 50mph downhill, but only allowed an assist speed on my ebike of 15.5mph???
> 
> obviously after 15.5mph the bike must be pedalled unassisted, but the same bike is still able to go 20,25,30,35,40......mph, so what difference will an extra 4.5mph of assist cause???



Ok. Have a nice day.


----------



## newfhouse (12 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> so what difference will an extra 4.5mph of assist cause???


So why do you want a change?


----------



## jowwy (12 Aug 2020)

newfhouse said:


> So why do you want a change?


I never said I did.........


----------



## CXRAndy (13 Aug 2020)

20mph isn't excessive, it doesn't mean that a rider has to do that speed. It offers a rider opportunity to move at similar speeds to vehicles in towns/cities. 

With a 20 mph limit now becoming common place, its appropriate


----------



## Drago (13 Aug 2020)

20 isn't excessive, and can already be achieved by either pedalling faster or buying a speed pedelec.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> 20 isn't excessive, and can already be achieved by either pedalling faster or buying a speed pedelec.


But in the US...the country our esteemed leader is trying to do a trade deal with, they can have a 20mph speed limit without having to buy another speed pedelec, but they still have to pedal to get that speed


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

Do you want the UK limit raised or not then?


----------



## dodgy (13 Aug 2020)

I don't see it in terms of the max assisted speed being raised, more like the minimum speed being raised. Yes the responsible will be responsible, naturally, but there'll be quite a few that will just hoon around at a minimum speed of 20mph, unencumbered by physical inability.

15.5mph is fine, I'd go further and say that only torque sensing bikes should be allowed 🤷‍♂️ There's a lot of bikes out there that simply sense the crank is moving, that's enough to deliver full power with about 1watt from the rider.


----------



## Drago (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> But in the US...the country our esteemed leader is trying to do a trade deal with, they can have a 20mph speed limit without having to buy another speed pedelec, but they still have to pedal to get that speed


It's irrelevant what they do in the US because we don't live there.


----------



## Pale Rider (13 Aug 2020)

dodgy said:


> There's a lot of bikes out there that simply sense the crank is moving, that's enough to deliver full power with about 1watt from the rider.



That is true, but full power from a road legal motor will not propel the rider to 20mph on its own.

I've ridden a torque sensing Bosch speed pedelec.

On the flat, it required quite a bit of effort from me to reach 20mph and above.

I couldn't get it to 28mph to reach the cut out, but I suspect a stronger and lighter ride could.


----------



## cyberknight (13 Aug 2020)

dodgy said:


> I don't see it in terms of the max assisted speed being raised, more like the minimum speed being raised. Yes the responsible will be responsible, naturally, but there'll be quite a few that will just hoon around at a minimum speed of 20mph, unencumbered by physical inability.
> 
> 15.5mph is fine, I'd go further and say that only torque sensing bikes should be allowed 🤷‍♂️ There's a lot of bikes out there that simply sense the crank is moving, that's enough to deliver full power with about 1watt from the rider.


at work theirs a modded e bike , kit job with a feck off motor and battery pack , definety overpowered that has had the chain removed so motive power from the rider at all


----------



## glasgowcyclist (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> i hope this helps and jogs your memory
> 
> View attachment 541268



Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of low speed electric bicycles in the US. 

This is a direct quote from federal law which states:

_"Low-speed electric bicycles
(a) Construction
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 2052(a)(1) 1 of this title and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Definition
For the purpose of this section, the term "low-speed electric bicycle" means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, *when powered solely by such a motor* while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph."_ (My bold)

This class of e-bike (in the US) may have a top speed of less than 20mph when powered by the electric motor alone. No pedalling input is required so this is an entirely different beast from the UK e-bike and therefor not really a valid comparison.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Aug 2020)

UK Bicycle Association statement HERE.



Statement said:


> ...
> It is reported that the vehicle he was riding when the accident occurred was a “Swind EB-01”, with 60 mph top speed and with a 15 kW (20 horsepower) motor.
> 
> This vehicle has, misleadingly in our opinion, been described as an “electric bike” or “e-bike”. In the UK, this vehicle would in fact be classed as an electric motorbike, requiring full type approval, registration, tax, licence, insurance and a motorbike helmet to be worn.
> ...


----------



## CXRAndy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Do you want the UK limit raised or not then?


Personally, yes


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> It's irrelevant what they do in the US because we don't live there.


We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of low speed electric bicycles in the US.
> 
> This is a direct quote from federal law which states:
> 
> ...


So why does it need fully operable pedals??? Also read this for a class 1 ebike in california, which if my geography serves me correctly is in america


----------



## Drago (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......


But we have never been part of the US, so that is irrelevant too.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> But we have never been part of the US, so that is irrelevant too.


But they want a trade deal with the US, which opens up the possibility of adopting some of their laws. If we adopt their ebike laws, then software updates can easily be adapted to take the new law.....


----------



## raleighnut (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......


Mainly because we had a hand in drafting most of em and imposing them on the other European countries, even 'Article 50' was written by a Brit.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> So why does it need fully operable pedals??? Also read this for a class 1 ebike in california, which if my geography serves me correctly is in america



It needs pedals to avoid being classified in California as a motor vehicle, which would bring with it the requirement for registration, insurance etc. 

Yes, California is in America but it’s only one of 50 states, all with their own state laws on road vehicle use. Kentucky, for example, classes e-bikes as mopeds with riders needing motorcycle helmets. It’s one of a dozen states which require e-bike riders to have a driving licence too. And there are a dozen states which have no classification system at all for e-bikes! So be careful stating that the 20mph pedal assisted cut-off is US-wide or suggesting that we can adopt their laws when they don’t even agree among themselves what laws to apply.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It needs pedals to avoid being classified in California as a motor vehicle, which would bring with it the requirement for registration, insurance etc.
> 
> Yes, California is in America but it’s only one of 50 states, all with their own state laws on road vehicle use. Kentucky, for example, classes e-bikes as mopeds with riders needing motorcycle helmets. It’s one of a dozen states which require e-bike riders to have a driving licence too. And there are a dozen states which have no classification system at all for e-bikes! So be careful stating that the 20mph pedal assisted cut-off is US-wide or suggesting that we can adopt their laws when they don’t even agree among themselves what laws to apply.


Were did I say it was US wide.....I said in America which is a huge place with lots of different laws, don’t quote something I never said, just to try and prove a point on a situation that I just proved uncategorically that your wrong in.....Yet again another member that thinks only his opinion counts and the rest must fall in line with his views


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Mainly because we had a hand in drafting most of em and imposing them on the other European countries, even 'Article 50' was written by a Brit.


Again irrelevant.......no matter who drafted, we no longer need to abide by European laws, so why can’t we try and change some to better suit people’s needs in the UK and why not use another countries state law to try and do that.


----------



## dodgy (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> But they want a trade deal with the US, which opens up the possibility of adopting some of their laws.



I don't believe there is a precedent for adopting the laws of a country we're trading with. The EU is different of course, being part of a mutually beneficial club essentially.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

dodgy said:


> I don't believe there is a precedent for adopting the laws of a country we're trading with. The EU is different of course, being part of a mutually beneficial club essentially.


So just cause there is no precedent, it means we can’t do it right.......wrong again, the world is a changing beast, those that cannot change their minds, cannot change anything.


----------



## Mugshot (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Were did I say it was US wide.....I said in America which is a huge place with lots of different laws, don’t quote something I never said, just to try and prove a point on a situation that I just proved uncategorically that your wrong in.....Yet again another member that thinks only his opinion counts and the rest must fall in line with his views


You always seem so angry Jowwy.


----------



## dodgy (13 Aug 2020)

Mugshot said:


> You always seem so angry Jowwy.



He should turn the motor off and get some exercise.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Were did I say it was US wide.....I said in America which is a huge place with lots of different laws, don’t quote something I never said, just to try and prove a point on a situation that I just proved uncategorically that your wrong in.....Yet again another member that thinks only his opinion counts and the rest must fall in line with his views


You referred to the US multiple times and only to California recently when it suited you to.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You referred to the US multiple times and only to California recently when it suited you to.


Yes I refered to the US, but not US wide as stated......as I said the US is a big country. But just for reference it was Glasgow cyclist that tried to use the federal law in the US as being the only law on ebikes, which is untrue. But don’t let that nuance put you off thinking that I’m the one in the wrong


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Mugshot said:


> You always seem so angry Jowwy.


Emotion doesn’t show in media posts.....maybe I’m angry at the ones who think only they are right and everyone else should just drop into line.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

dodgy said:


> He should turn the motor off and get some exercise.


I get plenty of exercise thanks.....now we resort to personal attacks as your unable to debate from a reasoned position....well done you


----------



## Mugshot (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Emotion doesn’t show in media posts.....maybe I’m angry at the ones who think only they are right and everyone else should just drop into line.


I say you seem angry, 
you say emotion doesn't show in media posts, 
you say you're angry.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I say you seem angry,
> you say emotion doesn't show in media posts,
> you say you're angry.


I said “maybe“ I’m angry......maybe I’m not angry and I just find some individuals on here arrogant and repressive in their opinions, as if they are the only ones that count.


----------



## raleighnut (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Again irrelevant.......no matter who drafted, we no longer need to abide by European laws, so why can’t we try and change some to better suit people’s needs in the UK and why not use another countries state law to try and do that.


We never needed to adopt any EU laws, the British Government decided to adopt some of them just as in Germany some small bars still allow smoking and yet the UK went for a total ban, ever get the feeling someones been pulling yer plonker over the EU.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

raleighnut said:


> We never needed to adopt any EU laws, the British Government decided to adopt some of them just as in Germany some small bars still allow smoking and yet the UK went for a total ban, ever get the feeling someones been pulling yer plonker over the EU.


No....cause I have the ability to make my own informed opinions and not have others enforced up on me.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Aug 2020)

Simon Cowell breaking his back doesn’t sound like a good advert for adopting the applicable US state laws wheee he lives.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Simon Cowell breaking his back doesn’t sound like a good advert for adopting the applicable US state laws wheee he lives.


He lives in Malibu, California  Which is in the US, but not all of it..


----------



## CXRAndy (13 Aug 2020)

It has been confirmed he was riding one of the most powerful e motorcycles available to buy. 

Conflating the two arguments is non sensical. 

Some are asking for a raise to 20 mph for standard Ebikes. That includes me


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Simon Cowell breaking his back doesn’t sound like a good advert for adopting the applicable US state laws wheee he lives.


Simon Cowell wasn’t riding an E bike though........just for reference like.


----------



## HMS_Dave (13 Aug 2020)

I believe he was on private land when he smashed his back trying to do a wheelie on a very powerful electric bike. If that's what he wants to do in his spare time on his land then go for it. He is a little more environmentally friendly than when Ozzy Osbourne landed on his neck with a petrol quad bike on private land. Both are beyond the scope of the law regardless...


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

He was riding an E - Bicycle in California, one that is well beyond the confines and reach of UK law on EAPC's


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Simon Cowell wasn’t riding an E bike though........just for reference like.



What was he riding under the applicable state laws?


----------



## snorri (13 Aug 2020)

Get well soon Simon Cowell.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> What was he riding under the applicable state laws?


He was riding an E motorcycle........which has nothing to do with E bikes


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

A motorcycle with a quick release seatpost clamp, a fairly normal looking twin rail cycle saddle, crank arms, pedals and 24in wheels?


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Not according to this post by forbes


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

Even Cowell himself classed it as an electric trail bike


----------



## gbb (13 Aug 2020)

Re the 15.5 mph max for motor assistance, it seems to me quite possibly because most cyclists on the flat ride around that speed, that's what everyone around them might expect, drivers, peds and other cyclists. Yes of course you and others can go faster but as a rule of thumb, 15 is what people are used to. Perhaps its seen as a safe median, one most people (peds, drivers and cyclists) can relate to and react to with experience.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

Both have cranks and pedals, motorcycles and E variants do not



> The CAB Recon is hands down the most powerful production electric bicycle



SWIND


> Delivering a staggering 15kW of electric power, this is the most technically advanced and powerful electric bicycle on the market.




This is a motorcycle, that happens to be mine. It doesn't have cranks or pedals.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> A motorcycle with a quick release seatpost clamp, a fairly normal looking twin rail cycle saddle, crank arms, pedals and 24in wheels?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 541523


You forgot to mention the throttle and the top speed of 60mph........and doesn’t need to be pedalled.

it also has double front disc brakes, which e bikes don’t........you really are trying to push the boundaries of what is an E trail bike and not an E pedal assist bike


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> You forgot to mention the throttle and the top speed of 60mph........and doesn’t need to be pedalled


Like any other class 2 Ebike in California, I refer to your post on P8. The only difference is the speed achieveable

RE your edit: I have quoted directly above from two prominent manufacturers, they both refer to their product as bicycles.

The CAB Recon is a single front disc, so what?


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Like any other class 2 Ebike in California, I refer to your post on P8. The only difference is the speed achieveable
> 
> RE your edit: I have quoted directly above from two prominent manufacturers, they both refer to their product as bicycles.
> 
> The CAB Recon is a single front disc, so what?


Speed and size of motor and the ability to reach 60mph without the motor switching off........class 2 the motor/assist cuts out at 20mph. A huge difference don’t you think

as for the motor its 250 watts for a class 2 pedelec, not the 20,000 watts of the recon/swind..........the manufacturer can state what he wants, doesn’t mean it’s true to the law/legal requirements


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

They're still bicycles, just not bicycles that can be used legally where bicycles and EAPC's normally can (roads)

There's nothing in legislation that says I can't buy myself a SWIND and take it to purpose built facilities, generally MTB trails and DH runs


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> They're still bicycles, just not bicycles that can be used legally where bicycles normally can.


Nope....bicycles don’t have throttles and 20,000 watt motors


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

They do, the two bicycles in question aren't imaginary


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> They do, the two bicycles in question aren't imaginary


Correct they are not imaginary, they are just not bicycles.........it’s got a throttle and a 60mph top speed and a 20,000 watt motor, that’s a motorcycle. End of


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

They are not motorcycles. End of.


----------



## jowwy (13 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> They are not motorcycles. End of.


Yup....it even has a sequential gearbox......bicycles don’t, so yup it’s a motorbike


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Aug 2020)

The gearbox isn't relevant


----------



## CXRAndy (14 Aug 2020)

The distinction is power and acceleration. Stretching the point to breaking, you could spend all day saying a motorcycle is derived from the cycle. But when a device can accelerate without any assistance at the pace of a sports-bike it no longer is a cycle. 

I and others are talking of assistance to 20 mph with the current power levels, which is a constant 250W and peak of 750W. Having ridden bikes like this. I know they aren't demon acceleration devices


----------



## Pale Rider (14 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Having ridden bikes like this. I know they aren't demon acceleration devices



I'm afraid too many contributors to this thread are making bold statements about ebikes without ever having ridden one.


----------



## Drago (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Even Cowell himself classed it as an electric trail bike
> 
> View attachment 541525


Simon Cowell, the renowned cycling expert?


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Simon Cowell, the renowned cycling expert?


I think even Simon would know what he bought .........people on here pretend to be experts, but certainly aren’t


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> Were did I say it was US wide.....I said in America



I've only ever seen you make reference to the US or America, I've never seen you refer to the laws of a particular state or states, which I'm sure you would have done had that been your intent.
And I don't believe that, until yesterday, you even realised that not all states had the favourable pedal assisted cut-off limit that California has. 




jowwy said:


> don’t quote something I never said,



I didn't.



jowwy said:


> But just for reference it was Glasgow cyclist that tried to use the federal law in the US as being the only law on ebikes,



I didn't. 

If you're going to wrongly accuse someone of misquoting you, you really shouldn't then misrepresent that person, it's rather hypocritical.
I have not claimed that the federal law I cited was the only law. In fact, you'll find that I subsequently informed you that each state is responsible for implementing its own road laws and even gave you examples of the different approaches.


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of *low speed electric bicycles in the US*.
> 
> *This is a direct quote from federal law which states**:*
> 
> ...


i have highlighted two things in this post that you made, that leads me to believe that you have stated this is the law on E Bikes within the US and at no point does it state that there are state exceptions to said law....


----------



## Drago (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> I think even Simon would know what he bought .........people on here pretend to be experts, but certainly aren’t


I'm an internationally accredited expert level professional rider, so I am likely in a better position than most to decide who is an expert. You may be disappointed were you ever to hear my thoughts on that one.


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> I'm an internationally accredited expert level professional rider, so I am likely in a better position than most to decide who is an expert. You may be disappointed were you ever to hear my thoughts on that one.


i'm never disappointed by peoples opinions that have no direct input on my life, especially an internet based profile type person, that i don't care about who have no feelings towards.....

this may disappoint you, but i don't really care....


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> i have highlighted two things in this post that you made, that leads me to believe that you have stated this is the law on E Bikes within the US and at no point does it state that there are state exceptions to said law....



You're conveniently ignoring the very next reply I gave you, in which I pointed out:



glasgowcyclist said:


> Yes, *California is in America but it’s only one of 50 states, all with their own state laws on road vehicle use*. Kentucky, for example, classes e-bikes as mopeds with riders needing motorcycle helmets. It’s one of a dozen states which require e-bike riders to have a driving licence too. And there are a dozen states which have no classification system at all for e-bikes!



Not only that, I had to educate you as to why pedals were required on an e-bike in California.


----------



## Drago (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> this may disappoint you, but i don't really care....


Which makes it all the more strange that you mentioned it in the first place.


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

Drago said:


> Which makes it all the more strange that you mentioned it in the first place.


another weird and wonderfully insightful post


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Aug 2020)

You wrote:


jowwy said:


> So why does it need fully operable pedals???



I replied:


glasgowcyclist said:


> It needs pedals to avoid being classified in California as a motor vehicle, ...



For a guy who feigns sensitivity about personal attacks, you have no compunction about throwing them around when it suits you.


I'll close with your own argument:



jowwy said:


> ... *people only start abusing others, when they no longer have a reasoned argument within the debate and start using insults*


----------



## slowmotion (14 Aug 2020)

How about compromising on "electric moped" and dropping the subject?


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> You wrote:
> 
> 
> I replied:
> ...


must be good to pick and choose which quotes you would like to us to try and mask the fact you were categorically wrong with your argument.....

you posted up the federal law within the US ......to try and prove that e bikes in the US do not have a 20mph assist limit. you were wrong and now your trying to snake your way out of your wrongful assumption. you even stated my google search was wrong too....

this was your post on the US allowed 20mph speed limit - i have underlined your comment in the brackets

*My understanding was that the 20mph limit (allowed in the US) you refer to is not the point at which pedalling no longer becomes assisted, it's the cut off for the speed attainable under electric power alone, i.e. without pedalling. Is that not correct?*

now i get it that, for the past 2 days you have tried your best to convince me and the forum that your right, cause you cant admit you were wrong in your assumption.......this is what you stated

*Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of low speed electric bicycles in the US.*

and then you posted the federal US law....not local state laws, until after i corrected you by posting the californian law.

i'll end on this note.....sometimes admitting your wrong can be hard, but when you do admit it, at least your saving grace can be that admission.......maybe you should try it


----------



## Mugshot (14 Aug 2020)

Jowwy, you could start a fight in an empty room, more power to your elbow, it's always a pleasure to see you in action


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Jowwy, you could start a fight in an empty room, more power to your elbow, it's always a pleasure to see you in action


why thank you......its why i work alone in a private office


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> must be good to pick and choose which quotes you would like to us to try and mask the fact you were categorically wrong with your argument.....
> 
> you posted up the federal law within the US ......to try and prove that e bikes in the US do not have a 20mph assist limit. you were wrong and now your trying to snake your way out of your wrongful assumption. you even stated my google search was wrong too....
> 
> ...




I'll take no lectures from you on credibility, accuracy or integrity after your (now deleted by the mods) xenophobic abuse towards Scots.
You've shown your true colours.

My apologies to the OP for the distraction from his thread.


----------



## jowwy (14 Aug 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'll take no lectures from you on credibility, accuracy or integrity after your (now deleted by the mods) xenophobic abuse towards Scots.
> You've shown your true colours.
> 
> My apologies to the OP for the distraction from his thread.


even when your own posts have also been moderated too......pot kettle comes to mind. but your abuse was aim towards me specifically, i just made a general assumption towards scotts, theres a difference


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> even when your own posts have also been moderated too......pot kettle comes to mind. but your abuse was aim towards me specifically, i just made a general assumption towards scotts, theres a difference




Nope, I have had one post on this thread edited by a mod and that was to remove *your* abusive content that I had quoted.


----------



## Slick (14 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> even when your own posts have also been moderated too......pot kettle comes to mind. but your abuse was aim towards me specifically, i just made a general assumption towards scotts, theres a difference


Who's Scott?


----------



## Pale Rider (15 Aug 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Jowwy, you could start a fight in an empty room



True, but an old saying applies here: It takes two to tango.

For every argumentative post by Jowwy in this thread, there has been at least one equally argumentative post by somebody else.


----------



## Rocky (15 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> True, but an old saying applies here: It takes two to tango.
> 
> For every argumentative post by Jowwy in this thread, there has been at least one equally argumentative post by somebody else.


I simply can’t agree with you there, Paley.


----------



## jowwy (15 Aug 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I simply can’t agree with you there, Paley.


So you think this has been a 1 sided argument???


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## Rocky (15 Aug 2020)

jowwy said:


> So you think this has been a 1 sided argument???


No...I’m fed up with your arguments on every E bike thread and decided to inject a little light hearted humour.


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## jowwy (15 Aug 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> No...I’m fed up with your arguments on every E bike thread and decided to inject a little light hearted humour.


Just as im fed up with everyone elses arguments on E bike threads.....but i dont see them through one eye


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## Pale Rider (15 Aug 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> No...I’m fed up with your arguments on every E bike thread and decided to inject a little light hearted humour.


Ha-ha.

That one was (nearly) lost on me.

I came very close to posting a reply that would have revealed me to be a humourless nerk.

Anyway, back to Cowell.

A similar bike to the one he crashed has been intermittently available in the UK, usually branded as a Stealth Bomber.

The company looks to be based in Australia, but I suspect the bikes are made in China.

https://stealthelectricbikes.com/


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