# A Raleigh Twenty Refurbishment.



## EltonFrog (27 Mar 2020)

Not everyone’s cup of tea, but as there’s the square root of feck all else to do at the moment I thought I’d take this old shitter apart and rebuild it. It cost a tenner.






Today I’m going to start the refurbishment of a Raleigh Twenty I bought locally for £10.00. Its a basic version of the Twenty the ‘Alpha’ that was supplied without a stand, a rear rack, dynamo lights or front shopping basket. The rack on my example was either added later or a dealer added item.




This bike has aluminium unpainted mudguards, Sturmey Archer three speed gear and partial internal cable routing and that is about it for interesting features, it was also a very nice colour originally until Old Father Time and the weather got it’s scrawny hands on it.



Heron Logo
One feature I like on Raleigh of this period is the Heron logo stamped on the chain ring.
My aim is to clean, service it, remove as much rust as possible and not spend any money on it, however I have ‘previous’ on that statement and costs sometimes runaway with me. Time will tell.
So far then, I have managed to dismantle every nut and bolt on the bike, starting with the front brake caliper, because there is a wire device on the stem in the head-tube that is attached to the bolt on the front brake that stops the handlebar stem from being pulled out too far, so to remove the handle bars and stem the brake caliper has to come out first.




There’s quite a bit of rust to deal with.



The wire that stops the handlebar stem from being pulled out too far, a safety feature.



Getting the pedals off can be a pain.




Part of the top tube, don’t forget the ball bearing might drop out. Don’t ask me how I know that!




One of the things that is often very difficult to do on these old bikes is to remove the cotter pins and bottom bracket bearing cups, however on this occasion I had no such issues, everything came off the bike quite easily for a change.






Almost there, just the seat post left.




The saddle was totally shot, top cover split, plastic underneath cracked and missing. In the bin



A box of bits ready for the real work.
And now the work begins, cleaning and polishing. Maybe tomorrow, if it’s nice out.


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## roadrash (27 Mar 2020)

oooh a Raleigh twenty thread,.... that rust doesn't look too bad, should clean up nicely , look forward to following your progress.


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## roadrash (27 Mar 2020)

I see you have left it on.....don't forget to take the gear cable clamp of the driveside chainstay that will need polishing too


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## EltonFrog (27 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> I see you have left it on.....don't forget to take the gear cable clamp of the driveside chainstay that will need polishing too


Yeah, I got that off later after a soak in some GT85.


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## Drago (27 Mar 2020)

BMX wheels, drop bars, dual pivots...go on, you know you want to!


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## EltonFrog (27 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> BMX wheels, drop bars, dual pivots...go on, you know you want to!


Good grief No.


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## Gunk (27 Mar 2020)

Looking forward to this one 👍👍


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## FrankCrank (28 Mar 2020)

I saw you'd started a thread over on Faceache, where I remain only as a 'lurker', glad you've started it on here also 
Was hoping to be in UK now, intended to fetch back another R20 for a modernisation project, but all on hold.
As I'm partly responsible for you acquiring your Twenty, I'll follow with some interest, no pressure like.
That stand looks the ticket - daresay it cost a bit more than the bike


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## 12boy (28 Mar 2020)

Great project....ever since reading Sheldon Brown's pages on those Raleighs I've lusted after one. Looking forward to seeing your progress.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> I saw you'd started a thread over on Faceache, where I remain only as a 'lurker', glad you've started it on here also
> Was hoping to be in UK now, intended to fetch back another R20 for a modernisation project, but all on hold.
> As I'm partly responsible for you acquiring your Twenty, I'll follow with some interest, no pressure like.
> That stand looks the ticket - daresay it cost a bit more than the bike


Morning @FrankCrank , yes you’re responsible for me getting that bike.
The stand is a Park Tools PCS-10, it belongs to The Fragrant MrsP, but I’m allowed to use it.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> ive found it a good idea to flush the rear hub with paraffin and re lube with light sewing machine oil, its usually enough to revive them



@roadrash how did you go about this? My SA hub feels distinctly lumpy, I’m considering the matter of a full strip down.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

12boy said:


> Great project....ever since reading Sheldon Brown's pages on those Raleighs I've lusted after one. Looking forward to seeing your progress.


They come up for sale in the U.S., I believe they’re a bit pricey over there though.


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## FrankCrank (28 Mar 2020)

From what I know the hubs are pretty much bombproof, you'd be unlucky to have a duffer. Congealed oil is a problem if they've been left idle for a long time. One trick I read about was a couple of squirts of WD40 in through the oil cap, and again through the chain indicator hole. Idea being it'll dissolve some of the gunginess, maybe enough to free things up again. Have yet to dismantle a hub, but sounds like fun. Got 2 dynohubs back there I don't use, intend to bring one back here and dismantle for spares, maybe both of them.


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## Gunk (28 Mar 2020)

You’ve bloody well got me wanting one now 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## roadrash (28 Mar 2020)

@EltonFrog , i just used a pippet to put the paraffin in , keep spinning the wheel every now and again,leave the wheel with the oil port at the bottom it will drain out, i imagine gt85 will do the same job, i have still never stripped one down, i have a spare in the shed so may try it over the next few days.


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## oldwheels (28 Mar 2020)

I have a Dawes Kingpin folder which I had intended to refurbish but that is getting doubtful now. Somebody has fitted wheelchair rims which makes me nervous as they are probably not designed for brake wear.
A tip I got which seems to work with a sticky hub gear is fill as far as possible with WD40 and give it a spin every day for about a week then drain and relube. Worked for me anyway. I also have a spare set of wheels and tyres for the same with a SA 3 speed which I keep meaning to advertise but never get round to it.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> @EltonFrog , i just used a pippet to put the paraffin in , keep spinning the wheel every now and again,leave the wheel with the oil port at the bottom it will drain out, i imagine gt85 will do the same job, i have still never stripped one down, i have a spare in the shed so may try it over the next few days.


I just watched RJ the bike guy’s video stripping one down. It looks straight forward enough!


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

Gunk said:


> You’ve bloody well got me wanting one now 🤦🏻‍♂️


If you bide your time you can get them cheap as chips, free sometimes . But if you want better quality get a Kingpin, the frames are far superior.


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## 12boy (28 Mar 2020)

I have been oil lubing my R SF3s since the local LBS had trouble making it work properly with the 2 types of grease. These don't have an oil port so I put 5/25 synthetic through the axle after taking the spindle out and laying the bike on the non drive side. The oil oozes out very slowly, so when the hub gets a bit noisy another couple of ccs go in. I use an old syringe dedicated to this purpose that has a small plastic tip that was left over from some long ago vet business. I've ridden with these hubs in temps ranging from -18 C to 40.5 C and they shift well. The problem with using gasoline or WD 40 would be in getting it all out without taking the hub apart.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

I started to clean up all the parts of the Twenty Alpha, but first I had to find some of the ball bearing I dropped yesterday, with that in mind I swept the driveway with a fine broom collected up the dust and grit and using a strong magnet I managed to find all the bearings plus another on that I had lost last year when refurbishing my BSA Tour de France and a Raleigh Scorpio. I set the bearings aside in a small glass jar along with bottom bracket bearing race and the BB balls as well and left them to soak in some white spirit, hopefully that'll get all the years of old grease off them.






Soaking in white spirit




With the BB bearing race.

I then set about trying to get the rust off the frame, there was a lot of it too but first the removal of the bottom headset race and the god awful plastic doodad that Raleigh use at the top of the head tube. These need a very good clean, but not today.





Bearing race and stupid plastic head tube sleeve.




Lots of Patina

Some folks who restore or refurbish old bikes like a bit of patina, Me? Not so much but I am determined not to spend money on this bike if I can help it, so there is going to patina on this Raleigh Alpha Twenty. So, out with the white spirit, fine wire wool, old cloths, cut and dry polish and a big tin of elbow grease. This frame is 42 years old and it has.t been treated very well of the years, as well as rust there's spray paint on it, other paint splashes and years of filth, grease and grime, sometimes its difficult to know where to start so I just got on with it.


I mounted the frame on my trusty old Black and Decker Workmate and cleaned it up, rust spots started to come off, the dirt was coming loose and the paint was starting to come through, as I progressed I notices more scratches but there is nothing I can do about those other than have the frame resprayed, I ain't doing that.








_Bad welding and weld spots_



Bad welding and weld spots




Raleigh Twenty sticker is hard to remove.
Cleaning up the frame
I have restored in the past a Dawes Kingpin, one of the things I noticed about the Twenty is that it is no where near as well made as the Kingpin, not even close. There are gaps in the seams where the seat stays meet the seat tube, where the two braces come down from main tube to the bottom bracket and signs of weld spatter, undercutting, visible lack of fusion.


After a few hours of wire wool cleaning and finishing off with a cutting compound car polish I got as far as I could with it.




That looks better
I still had one problem. I couldn't remove the sticker from the seat tube. Using wire wool and various products where not doing anything so in the end I poured lighter fuel on the sticker and set fire to it...that got the fecker off.... Eventually.


*I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU DO THIS, IT IS A STUPID THING TO DO. *






Removing the seat tube sticker

After another final polish up and cleaning out the bottom bracket, head tube and seat tube it was time to pack it in for the day, approximatly 4.5 hours out there today. Lovely weather though.





It used to be a nice colour.




No more sticker.


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## FrankCrank (28 Mar 2020)

With regard to the welds, I remember reading that during their long production period there were batches of shoddy ones, so maybe yours is one of them? The one I have over here is a '77 vintage, and welds all look OK to me, although can't see through the paint of course. I assumed they were brazed, but in your pic it looks like MIG or O/A, done badly. Maybe with it being the budget model, they cut corners? Not having the built in side stand is real mean, that's one of the things I really like.

As to a contest with the Kingpin, my money's on the Twenty, simply because Raleigh used a massive main tube, over engineered in fact. I don't yet own a KP, still looking though. I would agree that the level of components winner is KP, buy the frame/fork are the crux of it for me, as I'd be ditching a lot of parts for more modern stuff. The KP also wins with their standard threading - easy to upgrade the BB to cartridge.

All personal preferences of course - dull world if we were all the same


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## roadrash (28 Mar 2020)

it is possible to replace the plastic bush with a 1" threadless headset , i know you don't want to spend but thought i would just point it out.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html#headset


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> it is possible to replace the plastic bush with a 1" threadless headset , i know you don't want to spend but thought i would just point it out.
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html#headset


Thanks for that, it’s a consideration, but I’ll probably pass. Still, it’s another reason why the Kingpin is a better bike. 😙


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## roadrash (28 Mar 2020)

I am beginning to think you prefer the kingpin over the twenty  you right of course but there is just something about them that i like , cant put my finger on it , but there is.


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## EltonFrog (28 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> I am beginning to think you prefer the kingpin over the twenty  you right of course but there is just something about them that i like , cant put my finger on it , but there is.


Lol, The Twenty has a charm, I rode a mint one about three weeks ago and it rode very well, they were certainly more successful than the Dawes Kingpin, even though Dawes came up with that style first.

I don’t like the way the main tube is attached to the seat and head tubes on the Raleigh, it looks as if it’s been done on the cheap, and the silly double brace tubes on the BB to the main tube, fiddly to clean and looks messy. The Kingpin’s lines are much neater, especially the earlier models.


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## FrankCrank (29 Mar 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Lol, The Twenty has a charm, I rode a mint one about three weeks ago and it rode very well, they were certainly more successful than the Dawes Kingpin, even though Dawes came up with that style first.
> 
> I don’t like the way the main tube is attached to the seat and head tubes on the Raleigh, it looks as if it’s been done on the cheap, and the silly double brace tubes on the BB to the main tube, fiddly to clean and looks messy. The Kingpin’s lines are much neater, especially the earlier models.


No way Carl, completely missing the point . Raleigh designed the joints like that because they're brazed, you need more contact area to achieve a strong bond, and the way they did it is a great bit of engineering. No lugs, just cleverly formed, wrap around join allowing way more strength than is needed. Agree about the double brace tubes, a single larger one better. Would be good to have both frames to hand and get them both shot-blasted for close up scrutiny.

Anyways dear readers, all this sabre rattling is meant in jest, gotta do something during these testing times


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## EltonFrog (29 Mar 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> No way Carl, completely missing the point . Raleigh designed the joints like that because they're brazed, you need more contact area to achieve a strong bond, and the way they did it is a great bit of engineering. No lugs, just cleverly formed, wrap around join allowing way more strength than is needed. Agree about the double brace tubes, a single larger one better. Would be good to have both frames to hand and get them both shot-blasted for close up scrutiny.
> 
> Anyways dear readers, all this sabre rattling is meant in jest, gotta do something during these testing times


They may be strong but they’re fugly.


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## roadrash (29 Mar 2020)

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, now where did i leave my glasses...


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## EltonFrog (29 Mar 2020)

I started the clean up up on the fork and chain guard today. First the fork had a lot more paint damage than the frame plus it had remnants of blue and silver spray paint on it for some reason, over spray from something from the previous owner. 



Blue spray paint



Grime, dirt and rust



Paint missing



Silver & blue spray paint.
So with fine wire wool, a wire brush the size of a toothbrush and white spirit I cleaned off the rust spots that would come off and 99% of the spray paint, then a good old polish with T-cut and a shine up. I also removed and de-greased the bottom bearing race and put it back in place. 



Spray paint gone



Rust spots removed



Nice and shiny




It’s probably difficult to see in the photos but there is big improvement on the fork. 
The chain guard is in a sorry state, dented, scratched and the mounting hole has rusted away. 








The same treatment with this, as above and then i cut a strip of metal and using Araldite I glued the strip to the underside of the guard, hopefully that will be strong enough to hold the mounting screw when I come to re-build the bike. 



Rusty hole



Glued and clamped



Repaired



Polished up.
The chain guard is better but far from perfect, the repair will need a tidy up, and maybe a Raleigh branded decal will hide the pedal scar in the middle. 

Today I also put the rustiest of the chrome part in a pail of Oxalic acid, with a bit of luck that will take all of the hard work out of cleaning them up, I’ll leave them to soak in the solution for 24 hours then polish them up. I’ve cleaned up worse than this in the past, but it’s a lot of graft, I hope this will make life easier. 



Rusty chrome



Oxalic Acid


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## Gunk (29 Mar 2020)

Take your time, you’ll have plenty of it!


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## Chris S (29 Mar 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Raleigh Twenty sticker is hard to remove.


You can remove stickers (and the glue underneath them) with WD40.


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## EltonFrog (29 Mar 2020)

Chris S said:


> You can remove stickers (and the glue underneath them) with WD40.


Tried that, and lighter fluid and white spirit and meths, didn’t work. Heat did.


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## EltonFrog (30 Mar 2020)

Another update...it's not like I've got any thing else to do.

Yesterday I soaked the rusty chrome levers, nuts and other parts in some oxalic acid, today I took them out of the solution and they were rust free, the second photo above is how they looked straight out of the bucket. The photo below is after a polish with Autosol, just using a clean cloth no wire wool.





Before oxalic acid treatment.




Straight out of the Oxalic Acid bucket





After a polish.

Then I started on the handlebars and stem, the rust in these was quite light and I used chrome polish and fine wire wool, they’ve come up very well, though there is some slight damage by the stem on the bars.




Before polishing




Before polishing





After polishing





After polishing.

Next in line was the chain ring, crank arms and pedals. Covered in years of grease, dirt and rust they actually looked worse than they were, another application of wire wool, white spirit and and polish with Autosol brought the crank arms and chain ring up to a brilliant shine.
The pedals felt rough when spinning, after forty odd years of no maintenance it’s hardly surprising. One of the insert reflectors was missing in the right side pedal, plus it was very worn and rusty on the spindle. I was able to change this pedal thank to a very generous donation of a replacement pedal my an acquaintance on Facebook who posted me one. Both pedals cleaned up well and spin nicely after a soak in some chain oil.







Before polishing





Broken reflector.





Rusty Crankarm.





Nice and shiny.

Next job the mudguards, I removed the stays and cleaned them with white spirit and wire wool, then the same treatment to the mudguards with a final polish with a cloth and Autosol. Very pleased with the results they were quite manky.




Before polishing .





Before polishing.

.








Shining in the sunshine.




The underside.


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## CharlesF (30 Mar 2020)

The change is fantastic and satisfies my need for things to be bright and shiny! I’m really impressed and made a note of what you used to clean everything.


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## LeetleGreyCells (30 Mar 2020)

CharlesF said:


> The change is fantastic and satisfies my need for things to be bright and shiny! I’m really impressed and made a note of what you used to clean everything.


I made a list too...


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## EltonFrog (30 Mar 2020)

@LeetleGreyCells & @CharlesF 

here’s a list of products I use.


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/281267575679

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/142499272633

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/192845148672

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-maintenance/bike-lube/gt-85-bike-lubricant-400ml-477653.html

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bi...ikehut-citrus-degreaser---1-litre-164313.html


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## roadrash (30 Mar 2020)

looking good , i don't know about you but i find the cleaning and polishing strangely therapeutic


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## EltonFrog (30 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> looking good , i don't know about you but i find the cleaning and polishing strangely therapeutic


Yes I do, very therapeutic at the moment, it’s helping to keep the black dog at bay. The only cleaning and polishing I’m not that keen on are the wheels, they take feckin ages. Starting those soon.


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## newfhouse (30 Mar 2020)

You’re good at this cleaning malarkey @EltonFrog . I wish I had your patience.


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## roadrash (30 Mar 2020)

yeah wheels are the hardest and usually have the worst chrome too


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## EltonFrog (30 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> yeah wheels are the hardest and usually have the worst chrome too


The chrome on the rear looks ropey, and I might have to dismantle the SA three speed hub, it still feels claggy.


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## roadrash (30 Mar 2020)

i flushed the hub several times over several days,


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## EltonFrog (30 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> i flushed the hub several times over several days,


Yeah, doing that, maybe I’m not doing it right.


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## roadrash (30 Mar 2020)

may just be more gunged up than mine was, as you say its an excuse to strip it down


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## chriswoody (30 Mar 2020)

This is coming up great, should look really good when it's finished.

I've never stripped a Sturmy Archer hub, but I've stripped an old Sachs torpedo 3 speed amongst others.





I think there all fairly similar, having access to old tech documents helps a lot as well as photos as you go. You've got the expertise and time so go for it, you know you want to!


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## FrankCrank (31 Mar 2020)

Much as I admire what's been done thus far, I'm another one who doesn't have the patience to do it. 
Wiping things over with an oily rag and then admiring the 'patina' is my preferred method. 
Gotta admit that shade of blue is pretty naff to my eyes. Could be jazzed up by drizzling paint over it to match the Pollock Workmate, or some other abstract design? 
Anyways, very inspirational stuff you're doing there Carl - keep it coming


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Mar 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> I have restored in the past a Dawes Kingpin, one of the things I noticed about the Twenty is that it is no where near as well made as the Kingpin, not even close. There are gaps in the seams where the seat stays meet the seat tube, where the two braces come down from main tube to the bottom bracket and signs of weld spatter, undercutting, visible lack of fusion.



I think that demonstrates the difference between a huge mass market manufacturer and a smaller, more specialist one. Whilst both Raleigh and Dawes generally made very good reliable bikes, most of Raleigh's output was at the lower end of the market whereas Dawes tended to guard their reputation for quality sports bikes. I bet many a Kingpin was the wife's shopping bike, of a Dawes Sports/Tourer owning husband! 
It's quite possible that to save on costs, Raleigh sometimes used cosmetically poor fabrications, maybe welded by an apprentice or other trainee, rather than reject them as scrap. Raleigh probably reasoned that not many price-conscious base-model buyers were going to invert their bike to check the weld quality around the BB.


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Much as I admire what's been done thus far, I'm another one who doesn't have the patience to do it.
> Wiping things over with an oily rag and then admiring the 'patina' is my preferred method.
> Gotta admit that shade of blue is pretty naff to my eyes. Could be jazzed up by drizzling paint over it to match the Pollock Workmate, or some other abstract design?
> Anyways, very inspirational stuff you're doing there Carl - keep it coming


Pollock Workmate!  More like pillock work mate!


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## FrankCrank (31 Mar 2020)

....how's about Spear & Jackson Pollock


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## Gunk (31 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> i flushed the hub several times over several days,



has it worked?


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## roadrash (31 Mar 2020)

Gunk said:


> has it worked?



yes, it worked


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## 12boy (31 Mar 2020)

I think you are hoax and a charlatan Mr Frog. You have bought entirely new parts from some ancient bike shop with all that NOS stuff languishing under a layer of spiderwebs and Cosmolene, given them a quick brush off and the passed them off as rusted stuff you have magically restored to an appearance as new. It just isn't possible to resurrect old rusty parts, like Lazarus, from the grave. Well done !


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

12boy said:


> I think you are hoax and a charlatan Mr Frog. You have bought entirely new parts from some ancient bike shop with all that NOS stuff languishing under a layer of spiderwebs and Cosmolene, given them a quick brush off and the passed them off as rusted stuff you have magically restored to an appearance as new. It just isn't possible to resurrect old rusty parts, like Lazarus, from the grave. Well done !


Oh, if only knew the truth.


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

More cleaning outside today, the brake calipers, spindle and nuts and bits bobs. As you can see the spindle and bottom bracket locking nut where covered in years of grease and grime as were the calipers, chain and the other parts. I had forgotten to take a ‘before photo’ of the other bits, but take my word for it they were just as disgusting as the spindle.

The spindle, the chain and locking ring where cleaned with de-greaser with wire wool and brush with a good wipe down afterwords with GT85 and a clean cloth.











The brake calipers had been soaked in oxalic acid overnight to get most of the rust off, then cleaned and polished.



Raleigh Twenty Brake Calipers

It occurs to me that the Raleigh brake calipers seem to have been made for a budget and are not as good quality as the Weinman calipers as seen on the Dawes Kingpin, the Weinman’s are a much nicer design.



Weinmann Brake Calipers




Above are some of the smaller parts that were in oxalic acid over night then cleaned up with GT85 and wire brush. these parts were all grimy and rusty.


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## Gunk (31 Mar 2020)

Some really nice work there @EltonFrog I'm enjoying this one.


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

Gunk said:


> Some really nice work there @EltonFrog I'm enjoying this one.


Thanks. My next job are the wheels, I think I’m going to dismantle the rear one, spokes n all, dismantle the hub and clean it out and re-build . I’ve never done anything like that before, it could go horribly wrong.


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## roadrash (31 Mar 2020)

I am liking this thread because I know just how much work you have put in , having done the same myself


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## wafter (31 Mar 2020)

Nice work - especially impressed by the chrome work. How are you planning on protecting it now the rust has gone - I'd guess some sort of wax might not be a bad idea..


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

wafter said:


> Nice work - especially impressed by the chrome work. How are you planning on protecting it now the rust has gone - I'd guess some sort of wax might not be a bad idea..


It was bare steel and chrome when it was put on the bike originally as far as I know. I think these bikes it rust in the first place is because of neglect. If one maintains one’s bikes properly they won’t rust. So cleaning and polishing the shiny stuff with a polish and the non shiny stuff with GT85 and and a cloth should suffice, it certainly worked for the Kingpin I restored.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

What are your plans for the paint Mr Frog?


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## EltonFrog (31 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> What are your plans for the paint Mr Frog?


I have none, it is my intention not to spend any money on this bike. I did have wild ideas about a full chrome or gold, but the current crisis has blown that to hell.


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## wafter (31 Mar 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> It was bare steel and chrome when it was put on the bike originally as far as I know. I think these bikes it rust in the first place is because of neglect. If one maintains one’s bikes properly they won’t rust. So cleaning and polishing the shiny stuff with a polish and the non shiny stuff with GT85 and and a cloth should suffice, it certainly worked for the Kingpin I restored.


Cool - I agree about neglect; my assumption was that the corrision will have penetrated the chrome so the steel beneth is potentially now susceptible to rusting again. Hopefully you'll have similar success to the Dawes 

Looking forward to seeing the finished bike


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## HMS_Dave (31 Mar 2020)

I love stuff like this. Nothing quite like restoring something most would discard.


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## roadrash (31 Mar 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> I did have wild ideas about a full chrome



hmm,.... a seed has just germinated in my head, but it will have to wait for now


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## FrankCrank (1 Apr 2020)

Hey Carl, I know how greatly impressed you were when you spotted this one for sale:





Expect you've already got a roll of electrical tape to hand, so it fits in with the 'no spend' idea nicely


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Apr 2020)

Festooning a bike with things like tape can be a good way to make a utility hack look very distinctive and less attractive to thieves. I use retro-reflective HGV trailer tape on my main frame tubes. Doesn't do much for the looks but improves night time visibility and lowers the security risk when left unattended, IMHO.


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## EltonFrog (1 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Hey Carl, I know how greatly impressed you were when you spotted this one for sale:
> View attachment 511793
> 
> Expect you've already got a roll of electrical tape to hand, so it fits in with the 'no spend' idea nicely


Someone needs to buy that bike and put it out if it’s misery.


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Not everyone’s cup of tea, but as there’s the square root of feck all else to do at the moment I thought I’d take this old shitter apart and rebuild it. It cost a tenner.
> 
> View attachment 510875
> 
> ...



Oh, my late Mum had one of these.

Can't remember whether it preceded or followed her Raleigh 16 shopper though.


----------



## FrankCrank (1 Apr 2020)

The stripey one even has stabilisers, so would make an ideal pub bike, especially for the return journey.

Pubs eh.....those were the days.....


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## EltonFrog (1 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Oh, my late Mum had one of these.
> 
> Can't remember whether it preceded or followed her Raleigh 16 shopper though.


Do you mean Raleigh RSW 16? They stopped production of those in 1975 ish I think, so your mum could have had the Twenty afterwards.


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## rogerzilla (1 Apr 2020)

Mine has BMX-sized wheels, a BMX fork with V-brakes and a Sachs Duomatic at the back.

It is different to all other Twenties.

It stops.


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Do you mean Raleigh RSW 16? They stopped production of those in 1975 ish I think, so your mum could have had the Twenty afterwards.



Yes, I think that's the one - it had very fat tyres on it.


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## figbat (1 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Yes, I think that's the one - it had very fat tyres on it.


Apparently they fitted balloon tyres to compete with the Moultons of the era which had suspension (the RSW did not).


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## EltonFrog (1 Apr 2020)

The rear wheel was a mess, coverd in dirt, grease and rust, and it wasn’t spinning well either. Over the last few days I’ve been flushing out the hub with GT 85 as suggest by @roadrash , hoping that it would clear out some of old dry sticky oil inside the hub, it seems to have mostly worked.

I removed the tyre, tube and rim tape and set about, de-greasing, removing rust, cleaning and polishing the chrome and spokes. Using a wire brush and white spirit I started with the spoke nipples, at the valve hole a went clockwise around the wheel scrubbing of the rust, then tuned the wheel over and did the same again. 

The inside of the rim was very rusty in places and took a lot of elbow grease to get rid of a lot of the rust, it’s still dark in places but it is a lot better. I also gave that a polish with Autosol, it’ll help keep further rust at bay, I hope. 




Then the same routine then with each spoke, then the chrome work with wire wool, wire brush and the a rag. I then dabbed Autosol chrome polish on and brought the chrome to a shine. 




There’s quite a few years of crap on the hub and cog.






Surface rust



Surface rust.




The chrome on the rims is pitted in places but most of the rim polished up really well, overall I’m pleased with the results.







The hub looked quite bad as well, but the crud and rust was just on the surface and cleaned up quite easily.







Before and after images of the rust in the rim. 







I removed the cog and washers to get the mud and grease out easier. 










You can just about see Sturmey Archer Made in England stamp on the rim. 







As you can see in the last few images it all cleaned up rather well. I’m still haven’t decided if I’m going to take the gears out of the hub and give them a proper clean yet, I’ll see how I feel in a few days.

I wish I had Dremel or wire wheel attachments for my hand drill.


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## roadrash (1 Apr 2020)

Fantastic job there carl, I can imagine how long that took to do,


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## EltonFrog (1 Apr 2020)

roadrash said:


> Fantastic job there carl, I can imagine how long that took to do,


For the record 3.5 hours.


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## Gunk (1 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> For the record 3.5 hours.



Of pure unadulterated pleasure


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## FrankCrank (2 Apr 2020)

Hey Carl, as for the hub, if the gears all work after flushing, might be a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.

Thanks for highlighting that R20 for sale in Reading on the other channel, looks in good nick, but optimistic asking price.
The two I own cost 25 quid the pair. The real value comes from cherishing a neglected bike and bring it back to life


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## Gunk (2 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Hey Carl, as for the hub, if the gears all work after flushing, might be a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.



I agree, on my 20 year old Brompton it worked fine so I left it alone.


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## EltonFrog (2 Apr 2020)

Gawd! I am a dumb arse sometimes, shouldn’t be let near a feckin Lego brick let alone bike.

I was pondering the dilemma of the gears late last night when it dawned on me that the problem is probably not the gears but instead the bearings. A quick search on the tube of u and I found an excellent video on how to service the bearings.
I got the wheel out again and set about investigating my theory.






Clamped in the workmate.















Got the ring, cog, cover, washers and nuts off. Also the clutch mech (I think) , spring etc.
Got the ball bearings out using a very powerful magnet (didn’t drop any this time)









The. I took this clutch thing apart. No wonder it felt notchy.




The bearing cage is fecked. I’ve ordered a couple, in the meantime I Cleaned and grease put back Together what I can. I’ll have to wait now.




Bearings cleaned, new grease and replaced.





Retainer cap replaced.
Just hope the new bearings won’t take too long.
Just giving the wheel a gentle spin in the clamp, and already I can tell that was the problem.

Sometimes the bleeding obvious is staring at you in the face and you don’t see it.


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## rogerzilla (2 Apr 2020)

Sturmey AWs are pretty easy to strip down. Shifting the RH ball cup, which gets screwed tightly into the shell by pedalling, can be tough.

The only tricky bit with reassembly is the "R" shaped springs for the planet cage pawls. They need to be eased into position with some sort of rod (I use a 4mm allen key) as you are poised to push the retaining pin into place.

The parts that usually wear are the four planet pinion pins, the clutch and the ball bearings.


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## Gunk (2 Apr 2020)

A great little tool is a magnet on the end of a car aerial, brilliant for retrieving loose bearings.

Great work by the way, very envious, as I’m project free at the moment, kicking myself now for selling a Peugeot 531 project bike earlier this year, at the time we had too much on our plate.


----------



## dave r (2 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Gawd! I am a dumb arse sometimes, shouldn’t be let near a feckin Lego brick let alone bike.
> 
> I was pondering the dilemma of the gears late last night when it dawned on me that the problem is probably not the gears but instead the bearings. A quick search on the tube of u and I found an excellent video on how to service the bearings.
> I got the wheel out again and set about investigating my theory.
> ...



Don't you hate it when you do that? I do it occasionally its highly annoying.


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## FrankCrank (2 Apr 2020)

Might just be the photo, but looks like the sprocket has lost one of the 3 'spigots' that engage onto the hub? - can't see that it would contribute to the symptoms you describe however.


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## MontyVeda (2 Apr 2020)

nice work!

quick question about Oxalic Acid... does come in powder form to be mixed in a liquid?


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## Gunk (2 Apr 2020)

Ironic me talking about projects, just seen this abandoned outside M&S in town. The council will end up removing it and selling it for peanuts.


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## EltonFrog (2 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> A great little tool is a magnet on the end of a car aerial, brilliant for retrieving loose bearings.



i thought I had one it came in a nice case with other tools, I opened the case and the only thing that’s missing is the telescopic magnet.


FrankCrank said:


> Might just be the photo, but looks like the sprocket has lost one of the 3 'spigots' that engage onto the hub? - can't see that it would contribute to the symptoms you describe however.



It’s the photo, the spigots are all present.



MontyVeda said:


> nice work!
> 
> quick question about Oxalic Acid... does come in powder form to be mixed in a liquid?



thanks, yes it’s crystals like sea salt , I got mine from eBay.



Gunk said:


> Ironic me talking about projects, just seen this abandoned outside M&S in town. The council will end up removing it and selling it for peanuts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 512154
> ...



That’d be a great project. Edited to add @Gunk I'd be very tempted to liberate that and give it's freedom, I wouldn't but I would be tempted.


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## figbat (2 Apr 2020)

Oxalic acid is what makes rhubarb leaves unhealthy to eat - you could always extract it from any offcuts you have?


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## Gunk (2 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> That’d be a great project. Edited to add @Gunk I'd be very tempted to liberate that and give it's freedom, I wouldn't but I would be tempted.



I’ve got a huge set of bolt cutters so sorely tempted, however there’s a CCV camera bang opposite!


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## biggs682 (3 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> Ironic me talking about projects, just seen this abandoned outside M&S in town. The council will end up removing it and selling it for peanuts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 512154
> ...


That needs rescuing quickly


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## EltonFrog (3 Apr 2020)

I started on the front wheel yesterday, as you can see from the photos it was quite rusty and dirty. I used much the same system cleaning and polishing as I did the rear wheel, starting at the valve hole working around the wheel with wire wool, wire brush and white spirit, finishing off with Autosol chrome polish and a clean cotton cloth.





Rusty Front Wheel Hub




Speckled Rust on the Wheel Rim




Rusty Spoke Nipples.




Caked On Dry Grease and Dirt




Rust Spots on the Inside of Rim




Axle and Bearings Out




Claggy Axle




Hub Polished




Rim Polished




Removed Rust Spots














Clean Spindle / Axle




New Grease and Bearings




Shiny Wheel


Before and after photos of front wheel.
The axle and bearing races were degreased with a cloth and white spirit, the ball bearings soaked overnight in a jar of white spirit. There are supposed to be 20 balls, I only had 19, fortunately for me my neighbour who just happened to chatting to while I was out the front of my house working on the wheel told me He had some ball bearings of the 3/16th variety in an old tobacco tin. That saved me buying a load I didn’t need.

After all the cleaning was completed I set about greasing the bearing races and fitting the balls and axle, everything is running nicely. The last photo in the gallery is just the wheel offered up to see how it runs. It’s perfect.


----------



## Gunk (3 Apr 2020)

That’s looking great Carl


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## Brads (3 Apr 2020)

Man I really want a 20.


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## roadrash (3 Apr 2020)

@EltonFrog I know you will like this, just found this for sale for £35, sadly not local enough to collect with the current restrictions


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## Gunk (3 Apr 2020)

Where is it @roadrash ?


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## roadrash (3 Apr 2020)

@Gunk its in stockport, as much as I would like it I don't see a 60 mile round trip for a bike as essential, if ...IF its still there when restrictions are lifted then I jump on that like a tramp on a bag of chips,..... sorry for thread derail


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## EltonFrog (3 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> That’s looking great Carl



Ta, start putting things back together tom


Brads said:


> Man I really want a 20.



<hypnosis >Look into my eyes. You Do Not Want a Twenty < waves hand> You Want a Dawes Kingpin </waves hand> </ end hypnosis >.


roadrash said:


> @EltonFrog I know you will like this, just found this for sale for £35, sadly not local enough to collect with the current restrictions
> View attachment 512415


Nice project, you’d get thirty five queens for the front rack alone


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## rogerzilla (3 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> nice work!
> 
> quick question about Oxalic Acid... does come in powder form to be mixed in a liquid?


Look for Barkeeper's Friend in most general stores or hardware shops. That's what it is...you make a paste rather than a liquid.


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## roadrash (3 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Nice project, you’d get thirty five queens for the front rack alone


I know,....if it was closer to home , or any other time , then it would be mine now😢


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## FrankCrank (4 Apr 2020)

If looking for a project, use searches like _shopper bike, ladies bike, girls bike, vintage bike_.
Some are ridiculously optimistic asking prices, occasionally a bargain crops up, then its all down to location.
Happy hunting


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## rogerzilla (4 Apr 2020)

I got mine for £10 from the Gloucester bike project about 3 years ago. Fork bent backwards but otherwise almost as new - just some paint oxidation, which cleaned up with T-Cut. I reckon it went straight into a wall on its maiden ride in 1984.

A chrome BMX fork was £13 and also gave me front V-brake bosses. I fitted a real headset (Tange Passage - cheap) and swapped most of the heavy chromed steel bits for alloy. I had a spare set of BMX-sized wheels already. Rear braking was dire with the 100mm drop caliper I had to use, but eventually I found a Sachs Duomatic hub. This gets rid of all the cables to the rear, has two speeds and a good coaster brake - all activated by pedalling backwards to a greater or lesser extent.

My only minor annoyance is that the chainline isn't quite right.  The Raleigh BB (you have no option without very expensive work) and crankset put the chainring a few mm too far out relative to the sprocket. You can move spacers to line up the sprocket, but then the chain fouls the seatstay. British engineering at its finest. It can only really be solved by cutting down and retapping the BB to take a square-taper unit but this is not really a home job. I actually have BB facing and tapping tools but the word is that using them for this kind of major transformation will ruin them, especially as there are some very hard MIG welds in the BB shell.


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## FrankCrank (4 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> I got mine for £10 from the Gloucester bike project about 3 years ago. Fork bent backwards but otherwise almost as new - just some paint oxidation, which cleaned up with T-Cut. I reckon it went straight into a wall on its maiden ride in 1984.
> 
> A chrome BMX fork was £13 and also gave me front V-brake bosses. I fitted a real headset (Tange Passage - cheap) and swapped most of the heavy chromed steel bits for alloy. I had a spare set of BMX-sized wheels already. Rear braking was dire with the 100mm drop caliper I had to use, but eventually I found a Sachs Duomatic hub. This gets rid of all the cables to the rear, has two speeds and a good coaster brake - all activated by pedalling backwards to a greater or lesser extent.
> 
> My only minor annoyance is that the chainline isn't quite right. The Raleigh BB (you have no option without very expensive work) and crankset put the chainring a few mm too far out relative to the sprocket. You can move spacers to line up the sprocket, but then the chain fouls the seatstay. British engineering at its finest. It can only really be solved by cutting down and retapping the BB to take a square-taper unit but this is not really a home job. I actually have BB facing and tapping tools but the word is that using them for this kind of major transformation will ruin them, especially as there are some very hard MIG welds in the BB shell.


I used some homemade taps for my conversion, made from bearing cups of the standard 24TPI type, from an old klunker bike. They re-tapped the BB no problem. Would think 'proper' taps would be up to the job really. Maybe I was lucky that no weld was in the way - worth checking on yours


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## rogerzilla (4 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> I used some homemade taps for my conversion, made from bearing cups of the standard 24TPI type, from an old klunker bike. They re-tapped the BB no problem. Would think 'proper' taps would be up to the job really. Maybe I was lucky that no weld was in the way - worth checking on yours


Interesting. Did you cut the shell down to 68mm (or 73mm)?


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I’ve got a huge set of bolt cutters so sorely tempted, however there’s a CCV camera bang opposite!



All you need is a high vis and plenty of front, and no-one will bat an eyelid.


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## FrankCrank (5 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Interesting. Did you cut the shell down to 68mm (or 73mm)?


A quick measure, and it's around 72mm. Took a slice off the drive side only. The non-drive collar 'floats' to a certain degree, so guessing they can accommodate shell widths in the 68-73mm range, maybe a little more. The plastic collar with the cartridge had too many threads to work properly, so used a steel one off another old cartridge, perfect. Some trial and error, and luck. Anyway, a link to that build:
https://atomiczombie.com/forum/threads/franks-raleigh-twenty-build.128/


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## Gunk (5 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> A quick measure, and it's around 72mm. Took a slice off the drive side only. The non-drive collar 'floats' to a certain degree, so guessing they can accommodate shell widths in the 68-73mm range, maybe a little more. The plastic collar with the cartridge had too many threads to work properly, so used a steel one off another old cartridge, perfect. Some trial and error, and luck. Anyway, a link to that build:
> https://atomiczombie.com/forum/threads/franks-raleigh-twenty-build.128/



Just read your post Frank, respect to your engineering skills


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## EltonFrog (5 Apr 2020)

*




*
I started to put the bike back together today, first giving the frame a polish with car polish.







Then sorting the parts for the bottom bracket, adding the ball bearings to the drive side with grease 11 of them using a magnetic screw driver to lift them in the bearing race. 



Three bearings so far




Magnetic screwdriver.







I added the the spindle and non drive side bearing cup, bearings and lock ring, adjusted and tensioned just right. 









Crank arm



Chainring fitted to the spindle, the right way round this time.
Next I replaced the crank arm and chainring, I initially added the non drive side crank arm with cotter pin installed then discovered that I had the spindle in the wrong way round and had to start again. 




Next was installing the fork, I had all the correct bearings, it was a puzzle though remembering which order all the headset fittings went, it was a good job I had plenty of photographs to refer to from before dismantling the bike. 










Fork all back together, including the handlebars, the front brake and the safety device that attaches to the brake bolt to stop the handlebars being raised to high. ( no photos of that) .

I’ve still got quit a bit to do, not least of which is sorting out the rear wheel.


----------



## Gunk (5 Apr 2020)

Looks good Carl, perfect weather for it 👍


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## avecReynolds531 (5 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> *
> View attachment 512782
> *
> I started to put the bike back together today, first giving the frame a polish with car polish.
> ...


Thanks for an excellent thread - really informative & interesting.


----------



## FrankCrank (6 Apr 2020)

Surprised you kept that naff nylon bush for the steering, the devil himself must have designed it for Raleigh. Reckon you'll have it all done these next few days, with all the good weather. What you got planned as a follow-up?


----------



## EltonFrog (6 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Surprised you kept that naff nylon bush for the steering, the devil himself must have designed it for Raleigh. Reckon you'll have it all done these next few days, with all the good weather. What you got planned as a follow-up?


That bush, along with a few other design features of the Twenty, is the naffest of naffyness, a cheap solution to a problem that didn’t exist for the sole purpose of saving money.

On subject of money I’m trying to finish this project on the tightest of tight budgets.

The weather is grotty at the moment so I don’t know if I’ll get out today, and I’m still waiting for a caged bearing to arrive in the post.

No other projects in the pipeline, if I find one I’ll do it, but I’m not actively looking.


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Apr 2020)

AIUI the nylon bush was designed to damp the steering by introducing a bit of friction, as the steering was otherwise rather quick (a consequence of making the bike compact in length and giving it small wheels).


----------



## 12boy (6 Apr 2020)

Velo Orange sells threadless square taper BBs if you want a more modern cartridge BB at some point. No thread tapping required .


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Apr 2020)

You still need to deal with the 78mm shell width, though. Raleigh made life as difficult as possible!


----------



## EltonFrog (6 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> AIUI the nylon bush was designed to damp the steering by introducing a bit of friction, as the steering was otherwise rather quick (a consequence of making the bike compact in length and giving it small wheels).





12boy said:


> Velo Orange sells threadless square taper BBs if you want a more modern cartridge BB at some point. No thread tapping required .





rogerzilla said:


> You still need to deal with the 78mm shell width, though. Raleigh made life as difficult as possible!



Very informative and interesting, thanks, but non of that is happening on this bike, can’t be arsed with all that. No offence like.


----------



## EltonFrog (6 Apr 2020)

Today was another couple of hours putting things back on the bike but first I had to undo the head set again because this morning I discovered a ball bearing on the floor that must have fallen out when I was doing it yesterday. That sorted out I put on the brake callipers, mudguards, chain guard, seat post, gear lever, brake levers and pedals.




Rear mudguard.





The front mudguard is not full fitted yet, the two thick wire mudguard stays have to be attached to the front wheel axle before being bolted on. Can’t fit the front wheel yet until I get a new tyre for it.





Front brake calliper and steering stop fitted.








Both pedals fitted, I like the design of these but I’m told by Raleigh Twenty experts that these are not particularly nice or good quality. The amber reflector on one of the pedals on this Alpha Twenty was smashed, but a nice man called David sent me a better one in the post free of charge, which was kind of him.





The chain guard was a bit of a faff to fit, there were bolts missing and I had to drill a hole in the repair I made, I eventually found suitable nuts and bolts to fit in my spares box. The gear cable stop on the chain stay was also cleaned, polished up and fitted.





Brake lever and gear lever fitted very easily enough.





The seat post and post clamp all greased and refitted. The saddle is not original, that was liberated from an abandoned and scrapped Dawes bike whilst out on a Facebook Twenty/Kingpin group ride, it’s just the job.

The next jobs are


Brake and gear cables and outers install and fit.
New rear wheel bearings and axle service
Fit rim tape, inner tubes and buy tyres for both wheels.
Handlebar grips
Drive chain
Test ride.


----------



## FrankCrank (7 Apr 2020)

There are options for dealing with the BB, but the most tempting is to leave everything as is. Properly maintained, there's nothing wrong with the tried and tested cup and ball system. The Raleigh heron design looks nice on the chain-ring, and if all the chrome work can be polished up then it's a pukka job .


----------



## 12boy (7 Apr 2020)

Have not heard pukka for 60 years. It's a good word, though.


----------



## HMS_Dave (7 Apr 2020)

12boy said:


> Have not heard pukka for 60 years. It's a good word, though.


Oh i have. I didn't get to 27 stone not hearing or seeing that word.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (9 Apr 2020)

Rather than load individual loose ball bearings in with tweezers, which I find a bit of a faff, I use a different approach. What I do is fill the bearing cups with as much vehicle wheel bearing grease as I can physically cram in, then load the balls into the cups with my fingers and spread more grease on top of them before fitting to the bike. If the fixed cup won't come out of the frame I still fill the cup with grease the same way but load the balls through the axle hole from underneath. I have an old cloth or bit of blanket under my workmate, so if I drop a ball it will stick to the material and not bounce away and disappear. Searching for AWOL ball bearings during a rebuild is incredibly irritating, and I really don't have the temperament for it!


----------



## EltonFrog (9 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Rather than load individual loose ball bearings in with tweezers, which I find a bit of a faff, I use a different approach. What I do is fill the bearing cups with as much vehicle wheel bearing grease as I can physically cram in, then load the balls into the cups with my fingers and spread more grease on top of them before fitting to the bike. If the fixed cup won't come out of the frame I still fill the cup with grease the same way but load the balls through the axle hole from underneath. I have an old cloth or bit of blanket under my workmate, so if I drop a ball it will stick to the material and not bounce away and disappear. Searching for AWOL ball bearings during a rebuild is incredibly irritating, and I really don't have the temperament for it!


Good advice.

I’ve come to a pause on this project, I’m waiting for parts.


----------



## Gunk (9 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Rather than load individual loose ball bearings in with tweezers, which I find a bit of a faff, I use a different approach. What I do is fill the bearing cups with as much vehicle wheel bearing grease as I can physically cram in, then load the balls into the cups with my fingers and spread more grease on top of them before fitting to the bike. If the fixed cup won't come out of the frame I still fill the cup with grease the same way but load the balls through the axle hole from underneath. I have an old cloth or bit of blanket under my workmate, so if I drop a ball it will stick to the material and not bounce away and disappear. Searching for AWOL ball bearings during a rebuild is incredibly irritating, and I really don't have the temperament for it!



I use the same method especially if I can’t remove the fixed cup.


----------



## Chris S (9 Apr 2020)

If I haven't removed the fixed side's cup I just stick them on the spindle with grease.


----------



## 12boy (9 Apr 2020)

All spoken like gents who have been around the ball bearing block a time or two. I find a magnet on a rod great for removing loose ball bearings as well. I like loose, not caged, when possible, and like to buy new ones since they are inexpensive.


----------



## EltonFrog (10 Apr 2020)

Well, I’m getting near the end of this little project.

Started doing some more re-building of the bike today. I’m still waiting on caged bearings for the rear wheel so I thought I’d get on with some thing else, at least I could start on putting the tyre on the front wheel.

The tyres look a bit grubby and could really do with replacing but I don’t want to spend the money yet, so using some Swarfega like product, a brass wire brush and a damp cloth I cleaned up one of the tyres, I’m very pleased the way the whitewall have brightened up. 

You can see in the photo the difference in the two tyres.










The next job I undertook was adding the cable outers and cables, the front brake cables were easy If coubut the rear and gear cables went through internal routing in the frame, one was quite easy to the but the gear cable took blumen ages. I was well pleased when it finally went through the holes. The last couple of jobs were connecting the brakes, putting the rim tape, tube and tyre back on the front wheel, then putting that on the bike, connecting the front mudguard stays to the wheel axle ( what the feck were Raleigh thinking with that cheap and nasty design?), then the last job was to clean up and fit the handlebar grips. 


















When the bearings come for the rear wheel, I’ll be able to finish it.


----------



## Gunk (10 Apr 2020)

That’s starting to look like a proper bike!


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (10 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> connecting the front mudguard stays to the wheel axle
> ( what the feck were Raleigh thinking with that cheap and nasty design?)
> View attachment 514042



Employing that method of fitting the mudguards allowed Raleigh to use one-piece swaged fork blades rather than have to braze a dropout into the end of every one. When you consider how many Twenty family bikes were built, that would have added up to a lot of money. The whole Twenty design was built to a price; look at the pressed steel brake bridge and the method of joining the frame tubes. Swaged forks and stays are a quite common form of manufacture on lower budget bikes, especially 3-speeds. plenty of vintage 28" roadsters were made with swaged frame tubes. My old Puch roadster fork is exactly the same, and it doesn't cause any problem with the wheels coming loose.


----------



## 12boy (10 Apr 2020)

Lookin goood dude! Meticulous work.


----------



## EltonFrog (10 Apr 2020)

12boy said:


> Lookin goood dude! Meticulous work.


Thanks, not quite meticulous, looking back there’s a couple bits I need to redo or check once the rear wheel is on but it’s coming together.


----------



## FrankCrank (11 Apr 2020)

The beloved (to some) Brompton also has a swaged fork, so it's in good company.

When I did my R20 modernisation a while back, I was constantly saying to myself _'why the f**k did they do that'_

They brought new meaning to the word 'thrift' - unbelievable levels of penny pinching. When you look at the volumes being sold, even saving a ha-penny a bike soon adds up I guess


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (11 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> The beloved (to some) Brompton also has swagged forks, so it's in good company.
> 
> When I did my R20 modernisation a while back, I was constantly saying to myself _'why the f**k did they do that'_
> 
> They brought new meaning to the word 'thrift' - unbelievable levels of penny pinching. When you look at the volumes being sold, even saving a ha-penny a bike soon adds up I guess



Good point about the Brompton - a bike which has a pretty cheaply constructed frame, especially when you consider the price of a complete one!
The thing is with the likes of small wheel folders and shoppers, the mass market is a highly price-sensitive one, and there were other competing products out there for Raleigh's customers to choose from. Second-division makers such as Elswick also built passable 20" shoppers, plus there were the real cheapo catalogue bikes. Raleigh had to build a shopper bike at a cost that enabled them to entice their mass-market customer base to purchase, and at the same time make a profit, rather than a loss on each sale. Dawes had the better-engineered Kingpin to offer the quality end of the market, so there was no point in Raleigh trying to outdo Dawes, as then neither manufacturer would have sold enough to be profitable.


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## EltonFrog (16 Apr 2020)

A little update

The caged bearings finally arrived so I was able to put the drive side bearings in place and re-assemble the various nuts, springs, washers and locking nuts .






The greased caged bearing with pressed cap back in place.






Re-assembling the drive side first the L17 clutch spring.






Then the L16 Driver with caged bearings greased, with the K506z axle cone with dust cap then the K47 cone lock nut.

Then I turned the wheel over to clean and service the non drive side removing nut, washer, lock ring, outer dust cup (careful not ping it off with screwdriver) caged bearing out and cleaned all the old grease off the main body, inserted new greased caged bearings and re-assembled it all.






Old non drive side caged bearing was as fecked as the drive side one.






New bearings with dust cap on





Back together, and using Sturmey Archer cone spanners I adjusted the nuts so that the wheel spins smoothly and freely.

Then it was back to the drive side and put on the dust cover the two spacers, the drive sprocket and the circlip spring, which was a real paint to get back on. I screwed in the gear toggle on just to make sure the gears worked and put a few drops of 3-in-1 oil in the port to give it a bit of lubrication.









Just got to re-align the wheel, and put the tube and tyre back on then it can go on the bike


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## FrankCrank (17 Apr 2020)

Been watching some utube vids on servicing these hubs, interesting stuff. RJ The Bike Guy and MonkeyShred in particular, their other vids are also good on restoring old bikes. That springclip always makes me nervous too, imagining it flying off into oblivion. MonkeyShred prises it back on just with his hands, like you were pressing the last bit of tire back on a rim - will try that next time. 

My other R20 is languishing in the shed over there. Shame, as it would be a nice project to crack on with here, not much else to do right now. Toying with the idea of a scratch build small wheeled bike, but the heat is oppressive here - watching others doing the graft is more appealing right now


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Apr 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Toying with the idea of a scratch build small wheeled bike, but the heat is oppressive here - watching others doing the graft is more appealing right now



In that sort of heat, sitting in the shade with a cold beer in my hand is the only activity that appeals much to me!


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## EltonFrog (17 Apr 2020)

@FrankCrank , the MonkyShred video was the one I was using as a guide, that guy made putting that circlip on look easy, mine was really difficult, it took about ten minutes of faffing.


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## rogerzilla (17 Apr 2020)

I use the flat of a screwdriver.


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## Illaveago (17 Apr 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> @FrankCrank , the MonkyShred video was the one I was using as a guide, that guy made putting that circlip on look easy, mine was really difficult, it took about ten minutes of faffing.


I admire your tenacity in sticking with this interesting project . My mind would have focused on another project half way through.
I was wondering if you were going to refurbish the tyres.
Well done for doing another interesting project .


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## EltonFrog (17 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> I use the flat of a screwdriver.



Much easier said than done. 



Illaveago said:


> I admire your tenacity in sticking with this interesting project . My mind would have focused on another project half way through.
> *I was wondering if you were going to refurbish the tyres.*
> Well done for doing another interesting project .



They need replacing really, and if I keep the bike I will, but I don't want to spend the money on it until the crisis is over.


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## EltonFrog (17 Apr 2020)

It's finished....sort of. 

I cleaned up the rear tyre white walls with a Swarfega type product called Really Good Stuff hand cleaner.












I've had this product for years, it has come in handy ( see what i did there?) for cleaning handlebar grips, white walls, white rubber grips on pedals etc. Just dab it on with a damp cloth or toothbrush or if it's really bad use a brass wire brush and then wash it off and dry.
It's also really good for cleaning all the crap off your hands!




Then I put the wheel back on the bike, connected the gear cables, replaced the chain, trued the rear wheel a little bit and checked all my other nuts bolts, cable and connections, it's ready to roll...unfortunately it raining heavily today so riding the Twenty it will have to wait.
Although I have finished it for now, the bike could do with new tyres, new brake cables and outers, but these will have to wait until the Covid 19 crisis is over.

In the meantime here's some photos of the bike taken in the rain.






I left the rear rack off, I think the bike looks better without it, besides I've broken it anyway.





I can't help wondering if I should have had it powder coated.





If you been reading the other posts you may recall I 'liberated the saddle from an abandoned and dumped bike somewhere in that there south London.





The side stand I've had lying around for years, kept meaning to put it on eBay, but it has come in useful here. This model of the Raleigh Twenty did not come with a side stand included.







*The End...for now.*
​


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## Gunk (17 Apr 2020)

Great thread Carl, I’ve really enjoyed following your progress, you’ve done a cracking job.


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## EltonFrog (17 Apr 2020)

I meant to add that i have offered it to the Windrush Bike Project, they refurbishing bikes for key workers, particularly those who work in the NHS and Care Homes. They may not want it, it's not everyone's cup of tea. We shall see.


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## EltonFrog (17 Apr 2020)

The Windrush Bike project, have accepted the bike, they are going to give to a NHS key worker.


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## EltonFrog (18 Apr 2020)

If you’d like to make a donation to the Windrush bike project here’s the link Howard Needs here it is http://windrushbikeproject.uk/make-a-donation/


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## EltonFrog (20 Apr 2020)

Took this to the bike project today. Going to a new owner soon.


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## Chris S (30 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I use the same method especially if I can’t remove the fixed cup.


I found this video on how to remove stuck fixed cups. I think there is a danger that you might strip the BB threads though.


View: https://youtu.be/Oa8ztfXcHkg


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## Gunk (30 Apr 2020)

I’ve discovered that a plumbers tap wrench makes an excellent BB tool, I’ve also used it to to successfully remove a stubborn crankset (details in my Peugeot restoration thread)


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## FrankCrank (30 Apr 2020)

On the R20 I've over here, I tack welded a piece of bar to the fixed cup to get it off. I've since got a large nut & bolt for the job, but yet to try it out. That plumbers gadget looks nifty


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## DSK (30 Apr 2020)

That's been an interesting read and nice turn around. Great to see older bikes being given a second lease of life and just like cars, its nice to see the older stuff out and about.


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## matticus (30 Apr 2020)

<deep breath> what is the appeal of these bikes?? Apart from being old, which I totally get.


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## EltonFrog (30 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> <deep breath> what is the appeal of these bikes?? Apart from being old, which I totally get.


Sh!ts n giggles, cheap as chips (this cost a tenner and I have better one in the shed that was free) and easy to maintain, and for many sentimentality.


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## roadrash (30 Apr 2020)

@matticus ^^^^^^^^^wot he sed^^^^^^^^^


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## EltonFrog (30 Apr 2020)

Slightly OT but I saw this on Kingpin FB group.









Thought it was a neat idea.


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## rogerzilla (30 Apr 2020)

The frame is not particularly heavy and is quite well-designed. If you replace all the heavy steel fittings*, you get quite a zippy bike, and 20" wheels are fun. Many are also folders, which makes them good for holidays and indoor storage.

Raleigh threading, though 🤮

*when they called it the All-Steel Bicycle, boy they meant it


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## matticus (30 Apr 2020)

I understand FOLDING bikes! I'm struggling with small-wheel bikes that don't, and seem to have all the small-wheel drawbacks.


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## rogerzilla (1 May 2020)

They are still shorter, and the wheels can be lighter and stronger. On smooth surfaces they are nice enough to ride; they can be harder work on rough roads but tyres can make more difference. 20" wheels (whether 451 or 406 size) roll noticeably better than Brompton 16" wheels.

Perhaps the biggest advantage is that a Twenty is probably not going to be stolen. Even the wheels are useless for most other bikes.


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## matticus (1 May 2020)

This is sounding a bit like the debate about MTB wheel sizes!


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## EltonFrog (1 May 2020)

matticus said:


> I understand FOLDING bikes! I'm struggling with small-wheel bikes that don't, and seem to have all the small-wheel drawbacks.





matticus said:


> This is sounding a bit like the debate about MTB wheel sizes!


Never mind all that, see if you can find a KP or if you must a Twenty for about a tenner ( or free), tidy it up a bit and go for a ride, its good for a larf.


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## Gunk (1 May 2020)

The ease of use is a big factor, nice simple SA 3 speed, small wheels. I’m looking for one for my daughter as she is a nervous rider after an accident on holiday last year. I thought a 20 would be ideal to gently get her back in the saddle, plus they’re sort of retro cool 😎


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## rogerzilla (1 May 2020)

Kingpins have BSC/ISO threading but the frame isn't as strong - compare photos of the two and look at the BB area. I haven't ridden a folding Twenty, only a rigid one, but the hinge is supposed to be very good.


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## EltonFrog (1 May 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Kingpins have BSC/ISO threading* but the frame isn't as strong* - compare photos of the two and look at the BB area. I haven't ridden a folding Twenty, only a rigid one, but the hinge is supposed to be very good.



Got any evidence?


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## AndyRM (1 May 2020)

Thoroughly enjoyed this thread - great effort!


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## rogerzilla (1 May 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Got any evidence?


Which? magazine tested both in the mid-70s and came to that conclusion, according to Tony Hadland (bike historian and Raleigh guru). Anecdotally (and more recently) there are plenty of people who've seen a broken Kingpin but no-one who's seen a broken R20.

Kingpins also often have 500A wheels, and tyre choice is even worse than for British 20"!

We made a jump bike out of one of these in the early 80s and snapped the main tube after a few days but I can't remember which it was. We called it a "shopper" but that was a generic term.


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## FrankCrank (1 May 2020)

I'm a fan of R20's, and would imagine it more robust than the KP. Not that R20's are indestructible, this one showed up on Faceache recently, one comment being 'I think you folded it in the wrong place'




I'm certainly enjoying riding my renovated '77 example - great, fun ride. They're not for everyone mind, and if you can't see what all the fuss is about, well, don't beat yourself up about it. Highly recommend you try one though


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## rogerzilla (1 May 2020)

I think the rust got to that one, looking at the "patina"!


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## matticus (1 May 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> if you can't see what all the fuss is about, well, don't beat yourself up about it.


That's very kind Frank - one thing less on my mind! :-x


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