# Is 20 miles in under an hour a realistic goal for a MAMIL?



## Jon George (4 Feb 2014)

Over the last two years I have achieved my targets of radically improving my fitness and losing weight. (There's still some flab that could go - that's a work in progress.) There has also been the unexpected bonuses of rediscovering a love for cycling and a passion for being out-and-about in the Suffolk countryside which more than compensates for the effort involved. And while - ironically - I've become less interested in targets the more miles I put in, I still hanker after being able to know I can do 20 miles in under an hour. This time, last year, I was able to do it in an average of just under 18 mph - the heart monitor said it was mostly done in the red zone - but is this a reasonable, and sensible, goal for someone of my age (fifty-five),to aim for?


----------



## Rob3rt (4 Feb 2014)

Yes and with a fairly simple training programme shouldn't be all that hard to achieve.


----------



## DCLane (4 Feb 2014)

Yes, depending upon the topography of your area and training.

For me, being up in the hills most of the time then 20mph average for an hour+ isn't really possible. Put me on the flat and it's fine.


----------



## Hacienda71 (4 Feb 2014)

What position do you normally ride on the bike, on the drops, on the hoods or low on the hoods? As well as training your position on the bike will play an important part on the speed you ride at. If you ride in a lower position on the hoods or on the drops you will see a noticeable increase in speed than if you ride in a fairly upright position on the hoods.


----------



## ZaksDad (4 Feb 2014)

Have you already set a 20m course, and what time do you currently do this in?
Basically, the answer to your question is yes. The next question is 'how' and the answer to the above questions will help you understand where you can improve speed and stamina and what you'd need to work on to achieve your goal.


----------



## VamP (4 Feb 2014)

DCLane said:


> Yes, depending upon the topography of your area and training.
> 
> For me, being up in the hills most of the time then 20mph average for an hour+ isn't really possible. Put me on the flat and it's fine.




It's Suffolk  of course it's not hilly

@OP - it's perfectly achievable as others have said with a bit of training. Don't try to do the whole 20 heading in a westerly direction on a windy day though.


----------



## helston90 (4 Feb 2014)

On your own or part of a group? if you get a group of you riding taking the lead in turns in a flat area you'll be doing that sort of time no problem.


----------



## Koga (4 Feb 2014)

As already mentioned above, conditions which can influence your average speed: group riding, wind direction, time of the year / temperature and the route (even in Suffolk). In favourable conditions you will be able to achieve 20mph on average, but stepping up from just under18 to 20 mph is quite a big step. My advise is to cycle with somebody else of similar ability and goals.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Feb 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> What position do you normally ride on the bike, on the drops, on the hoods or low on the hoods? As well as training your position on the bike will play an important part on the speed you ride at. If you ride in a lower position on the hoods or on the drops you will see a noticeable increase in speed than if you ride in a fairly upright position on the hoods.



This man knows his stuff about being able to maintain more than a 20mph average...






And do it whilst old at the same time :devil:


----------



## 400bhp (4 Feb 2014)

Go for it!!

It will involve pain in the training though!


----------



## Hacienda71 (4 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> This man knows his stuff about being able to maintain more than a 20mph average...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mattobrien (4 Feb 2014)

@Jon George The short answer is yes, as has been said above. 

You are more than welcome to come out with @Andrew_Culture and I on some of our faster runs (still not very fast mind you) to help build up speed, if that is useful.

The slightly warmer weather, when it comes, will help too. Personally I tend to go a bit slower when it is cold. 

I have a few training routes that I ride regularly and I personally find that helps. I know where I am at any given point, how far I have to go and broadly how hard I need to be pushing. No point in going off too fast. I also find the wind plays a bit of a role too. No hills of which to speak here in Suffolk to hamper with speed.

When I set out I had a goal of hitting the magic 20mph ave and managed to do it within about 9 months from starting riding. That was over a course of just over 20 miles.

Last year I managed to hit an ave of just over 21mph on a few rides, this year I would like to aim for 22mph ave, over the same course.

Hard work and a bit of suffering is all that is required. Properly push yourself.

Happy to help / shout at you while you aren't going fast enough, if I can


----------



## Jon George (4 Feb 2014)

mattobrien said:


> Happy to help / shout at you while you aren't going fast enough, if I can


Thanks!  I've been finding the small group runs real fun - plus a noticeable increase in speed from being able to take turns to draft and I put in a good turn of speed with @Andrew_Culture yesterday afternoon - and I've just sorted out the flattest 20mile route I can from home to Felixstowe and back. I will provide updates.


----------



## screenman (4 Feb 2014)

If it is not possible then my Garmin is not working as it should, I am older than you.


----------



## mattobrien (4 Feb 2014)

First ride at 20mph by June then. That ought to give you enough time.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (4 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> [quote="mattobrien, post: 2910613, member: 17550Happy to help / shout at you while you aren't going fast enough, if I can





> Thanks!  I've been finding the small group runs real fun - plus a noticeable increase in speed from being able to take turns to draft and I put in a good turn of speed with @Andrew_Culture yesterday afternoon - and I've just sorted out the flattest 20mile route I can from home to Felixstowe and back. I will provide updates.



Very nearly proof that I do sometimes creep out from the back of the pack and provide a draft for others 

Jon - we can up the pace next time were out if you like, I'd love to see your twenty mile route.


----------



## Blue (5 Feb 2014)

A set of clip-on aero bars and a pair of second hand deep rim wheels and you're there!! 


Provided you use them!!!


----------



## Jon George (5 Feb 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> What position do you normally ride on the bike, on the drops, on the hoods or low on the hoods? As well as training your position on the bike will play an important part on the speed you ride at. If you ride in a lower position on the hoods or on the drops you will see a noticeable increase in speed than if you ride in a fairly upright position on the hoods.


The first experimental results are just in ...
The route: a tad under twenty miles (discrepancy with Google Maps and my on-board computer).
Conditions: 1/3rd severe crosswind; 1/3rd battering headwind; 1/3rd wow - am I really going this fast?
Changes to bike #2: lowered the handlebars one spacer (and slighter raised the seat) and spent as much time as I could on the drops.
Result: 16.8mph
Conclusions: I'm certain I have the legs for it, I'm certain I've got the stamina, but, oh, sweet mamma, my lower back was protesting as if I'd been planting spuds for a week.

It seems if I'm to have any chance to stepping up the challenge @mattobrien has set me, I'll need to seek out some core exercises and (correct me if you think I'm wrong) up my cadence to spread the load on my back. 

BTW I didn't get anywhere near my peak heart-rate, so I think I've got a bit more to give.


----------



## Hacienda71 (5 Feb 2014)

It will take a while for your body to get used to a change in position, but it does pay dividends. Go low go fast.


----------



## Rob3rt (5 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> The first experimental results are just in ...
> The route: a tad under twenty miles (discrepancy with Google Maps and my on-board computer).
> Conditions: 1/3rd severe crosswind; 1/3rd battering headwind; 1/3rd wow - am I really going this fast?
> Changes to bike #2: lowered the handlebars one spacer (and slighter raised the seat) and spent as much time as I could on the drops.
> ...



Unless your cadence is well off, then you would do best to leave it alone IMO. Most people will gravitate toward a self selected cadence that is most efficient for them. Probably very few people need to consciously alter things!


----------



## mattobrien (5 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> The first experimental results are just in ...
> The route: a tad under twenty miles (discrepancy with Google Maps and my on-board computer).
> Conditions: 1/3rd severe crosswind; 1/3rd battering headwind; 1/3rd wow - am I really going this fast?
> Changes to bike #2: lowered the handlebars one spacer (and slighter raised the seat) and spent as much time as I could on the drops.
> ...


Good work Sir!

Personally I find I never go as fast when it is windy as when is is calm. By that I mean the headwind always hurts more than the tailwind helps 

I have been looking at the weather forecast and have generally been put off by the wind. I need a few days rest anyway, so this helps make sure that actually happens.

It terms of head down, arse up, do make sure the saddle is at the right height for your leg length, rather than raising it to get the arse up, so to speak. You can always just lower the bars, which you have done.

Getting use to riding on the drops helps.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (5 Feb 2014)

Progress!


----------



## VamP (5 Feb 2014)

It's not a good time of the year for PBs, you'll easily pick up a couple of mph on a still and dry spring day for the same effort.


----------



## Jon George (5 Feb 2014)

mattobrien said:


> do make sure the saddle is at the right height for your leg length, rather than raising it to get the arse up, so to speak.



This was a minor tweak I've been forgetting to do for some time, so, while I had the appropriate tools in hand ....


----------



## 400bhp (5 Feb 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> It will take a while for your body to get used to a change in position, but it does pay dividends. *Go low go fast.*



Yeah, but not too low otherwise I don't get the full benefit of the draft.


----------



## Sharky (5 Feb 2014)

Just looked up what a Mamil is. Made me smile. What am I? I already have my bus pass and soon will have my pension. Am I a OMIL? And sometimes a OMIASS (old man in a skin suit?)

Going back to the topic, I would encourage anybody who wants ride at high speed to join a cycling club and take part in their organised time trials. There is nothing better than riding on an accurately measured course and watching and learning from club mates and faster riders. If you are an OMIL, there are age standards for over 40's, but really you are just riding against yourself and trying to set a PB.

Organised events also have marshall's and warning signs for motorists, so makes high speed riding a little bit safer. 

Achieving 20mph for the first time is quite an achievement, but get a season under your belt and you will be disappointed when you only do a 20mph ride. 

There are some VOMIL's in the time trial world who think nothing of achieving 20 mph at distances of 50 and 100miles.

Good luck,
Keith


----------



## gam001 (7 Feb 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> It will take a while for your body to get used to a change in position, but it does pay dividends. *Go low go fast*.


"Go low or go slow"


----------



## RAYMOND (7 Feb 2014)

I would say so yes, I'm very much a amateur cyclist ..even a fair weather one.
My usual distance is 18 to 20 miles and I do that in a hour.
I don't even go full pelt ..just a steady pace.
This year I will be pushing myself a bit more going more regularly and over longer distances.


----------



## david k (15 Feb 2014)

not for me its not!, my best 10 mile is 31 minutes and best 1 hour is 18 miles, i recon i may be able to improve these times but im not finding it easy


----------



## montage (15 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> The first experimental results are just in ...
> The route: a tad under twenty miles (discrepancy with Google Maps and my on-board computer).
> Conditions: 1/3rd severe crosswind; 1/3rd battering headwind; 1/3rd wow - am I really going this fast?
> Changes to bike #2: lowered the handlebars one spacer (and slighter raised the seat) and spent as much time as I could on the drops.
> ...



In this wind.... that would be pretty close to 20mph avg on a windless day, nice


----------



## 400bhp (15 Feb 2014)

montage said:


> In this wind.... that would be pretty close to 20mph avg on a windless day, nice



Hmm, not sure about that.


----------



## Banjo (15 Feb 2014)

I did an out and back ride a few days ago in strong wind, (30 gusting to 45mph) struggled into a headwind for 20 miles then basically came back by a slightly different route but with wind behind me. Really flew on the way back but my average speed for the whole ride was still down on normal by about 2mph.

Ithink a headwind takes more out of you than you get back when its behind you.Have to admit though it was good fun doing over 42 mph on a gentle downhill I normally go down at about 30 mph,


----------



## montage (15 Feb 2014)

Banjo said:


> I did an out and back ride a few days ago in strong wind, (30 gusting to 45mph) struggled into a headwind for 20 miles then basically came back by a slightly different route but with wind behind me. Really flew on the way back but my average speed for the whole ride was still down on normal by about 2mph.
> 
> *Ithink a headwind takes more out of you than you get back when its behind you*.Have to admit though it was good fun doing over 42 mph on a gentle downhill I normally go down at about 30 mph,



Yep, simple maths - for a 20 mile out and back you may spend the first 10 miles going 15mph, the second 10 miles going 25 mph - the average is not 20mph. This is because you will spend 40 minutes going 15 mph and 24 minutes going 25 mph.
This is why it is more efficient to go harder into headwinds


----------



## Banjo (15 Feb 2014)

I also think that when your galloping along with a tail wind the temptation is to ease off and let the wind do the work.


----------



## numbnuts (15 Feb 2014)

What's the rush I say........


----------



## gavroche (15 Feb 2014)

That's definitively an impossible target for this MAMIL so congratulations to you and keep it going.


----------



## 400bhp (15 Feb 2014)

montage said:


> Yep, simple maths - for a 20 mile out and back you may spend the first 10 miles going 15mph, the second 10 miles going 25 mph - the average is not 20mph. This is because you will spend 40 minutes going 15 mph and 24 minutes going 25 mph.
> *This is why it is more efficient to go harder into headwinds*



Not sure how you've worked that out? Completely dependent upon the cyclist doing 15mph out and 25mph back. The difference being 67%. It could have been 16.67 out and 25 back? (50% difference)

I think it mostly comes down to the drag coefficient and the relative difference between the frontal drag and rearward drag (assuming all other stuff constant)?


----------



## nickyboy (15 Feb 2014)

montage said:


> Yep, simple maths - for a 20 mile out and back you may spend the first 10 miles going 15mph, the second 10 miles going 25 mph - the average is not 20mph. This is because you will spend 40 minutes going 15 mph and 24 minutes going 25 mph.
> This is why it is more efficient to go harder into headwinds



Err, the maths isn't quite so simple as that. The easiest way to understand this is as follows:

Imagine you have an out and back course, 10 miles out, 20 miles in total. On a completely still day you cycle at 20mph. Therefore you experience 400 units of wind resistance (resistance is proportionate to the square of the speed) for one hour.

Now imagine that it is a windy day. You have a 10mph tailwind out, 10 mph headwind back. To maintain the same 20mph out you will experience 100 units of wind resistance (the effective wind speed will be 10mph headwind) for half an hour. On the way back, if you cycle at 20mph you will experience 900 units of wind resistance for half an hour. So on average, you will experience 500 units of wind resistance for one hour.

So you have to work quite a lot harder to maintain the same average on a windy day. Alternatively, you maintain the same effort and go slower.


----------



## 400bhp (15 Feb 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Err, the maths isn't quite so simple as that. The easiest way to understand this is as follows:
> 
> Imagine you have an out and back course, 10 miles out, 20 miles in total. On a completely still day you cycle at 20mph. Therefore you experience 400 units of wind resistance (resistance is proportionate to the square of the speed) for one hour.
> 
> ...



How are you working out the relative wind resistances? Linearly? See my post above, I _think_ it depends on your drag coefficient which i_ think_ will be different forwards and back.


----------



## nickyboy (16 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> How are you working out the relative wind resistances? Linearly? See my post above, I _think_ it depends on your drag coefficient which i_ think_ will be different forwards and back.



You're absolutely right that it will be different out and back due to the wind direction. All I was doing was showing that if you do an out and back in still conditions v windy conditions, you will suffer more wind resistance in windy conditions if you manage to maintain the same speed as in still conditions.

When I've got a minute I'll do the maths to show what happens to speed in windy v still conditions if you maintain constant effort. Either way, in windy conditions you will either maintain your still conditions speed with extra effort or maintain your still conditions effort resulting in a lower average speed


----------



## biggs682 (16 Feb 2014)

numbnuts said:


> What's the rush I say........



couldnt agree more , why not just enjoy the ride


----------



## nickyboy (16 Feb 2014)

OK, here's the maths for constant effort and it's effect on speed.

Firstly, one assumption; there is only wind resistance. No rolling resistance or mechanical inefficiencies etc.

Using my example, 10 miles out, 10 miles back. In still conditions, experiencing 400 units of wind resistance, the cyclist can travel 20mph out and 20 mph back. So a 20mph average.

Now add a 10mph tailwind out. To experience 400 units of wind resistance, you would cycle at 30mph (giving you a net 20mph headwind). On the return journey, you would cycle at 10mph (again giving you a net 20mph headwind). So here you will have to put in exactly the same effort as in still conditions to do this.

But the time spent doing it is different. In still conditions you do it for one hour so that's 20mph average. In the windy conditions your outbound takes 20 minutes and your return leg takes 1 hour. So it is 1 hour 20 minutes in total, giving an average speed of 15mph.

Of course rolling resistaces, mechanical inefficiencies distort this to an extent. But whatever happens, your average speed on a windy day reduces due to the above.. So get yer head down and go low


----------



## Jon George (16 Feb 2014)

nickyboy said:


> So you have to work quite a lot harder to maintain the same average on a windy day. Alternatively, you maintain the same effort and go slower.


I love this sort of stuff - it reminds me of How-It-Works articles in Look And Learn. Cheers - brought back a bit of childhood!


----------



## asterix (19 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> Conclusions: I'm certain I have the legs for it, I'm certain I've got the stamina, but, oh, sweet mamma,* my lower back was protesting as if I'd been planting spuds for a week.*



If it were me I'd try tweaking the nose of the saddle down a smidgin. It may feel a little odd but you should find you get used to it.


----------



## Jon George (19 Feb 2014)

asterix said:


> If it were me I'd try tweaking the nose of the saddle down a smidgin. It may feel a little odd but you should find you get used to it.


I take it you don't mean that the saddle is pointing down slightly at the front, as I understand that has a detrimental increase on the load on the shoulders? To be honest, I think it's less of an adjustment issue, and more to do with the fact that - up until a fortnight ago - I wasn't doing any core exercise and I haven't spent that much time of the drops. (Though that is being rectified. ).


----------



## asterix (19 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> I take it you don't mean that the saddle is pointing down slightly at the front, as I understand that has a detrimental increase on the load on the shoulders? To be honest, I think it's less of an adjustment issue, and more to do with the fact that - up until a fortnight ago - I wasn't doing any core exercise and I haven't spent that much time of the drops. (Though that is being rectified. ).



No, more like level. I do see people with up-tilted saddles and I know from experience I'd get LBP from such a set up. I do core exercises a lot doing building work like wot I do and have very strong back muscles but would still get back pain if not careful.


----------



## Trull (20 Feb 2014)

I'd recommend finding a route of 25miles and train on that, then every 8 weeks TT round the 20miler full gas. Your body knows it can get round the 25mTT so a 20m is going to be easily achieved…or at least that's the plan anyway.
This is where a gps device (no need to spend lots - a 2nd hand Garmin Forerunner 205 is more than enough - about 50quid) and strava can be really good for you, after the first ride, break the route into segments and then you can see where you are going fastest and where you need to work harder.
When I was timetrialling, I concentrated on every individual km, so I noted what time splits were needed and committed them to memory before ticking them off as I cycled. Every km for me was like a card in a deck - for the last km I ripped up the deck.

Good luck and let us know how you do!


----------



## sunsport coach (22 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> Over the last two years I have achieved my targets of radically improving my fitness and losing weight. (There's still some flab that could go - that's a work in progress.) There has also been the unexpected bonuses of rediscovering a love for cycling and a passion for being out-and-about in the Suffolk countryside which more than compensates for the effort involved. And while - ironically - I've become less interested in targets the more miles I put in, I still hanker after being able to know I can do 20 miles in under an hour. This time, last year, I was able to do it in an average of just under 18 mph - the heart monitor said it was mostly done in the red zone - but is this a reasonable, and sensible, goal for someone of my age (fifty-five),to aim for?


 Hi Jon,
This is an achievable goal for sure. Lots of good advice here already!
A structured training plan based on your current fitness levels and your desired goals is a great starting point.
Once you have benchmarked the important aspects of your fitness that would enable you to achieve this goal you can set about training to improve them.
Current body composition, flexibility and core strength and nutrition will all have a big influence on performance on the bike.
Another key factor is a good aerobic endurance, this would be the foundation of your fitness that will allow you to ride hard for 60 miuntes.

Many ways to improve, lots of them simple and FREE but the really important point is to understand your current fitness and the fitness required for success in your goal, and then using a progressive plan create the correct training stimulus that ensures continual fitness gains.

Fitness testing and coaching is a great way to take your performance to the next level!

Good luck!


----------



## Over The Hill (24 Feb 2014)

So the consensus seems to be that you CAN do it if you want to but I would say WHY do it?

I am a similar age and it is a fact of life that we are not as fast or fit as we may have been 30 years ago (you don't get many 55 year old sportsmen).
To achieve something you perhaps did 30 years ago will not be proving that you have not aged or are as good as you were, as you will certainly need to put in more effort to get the same result you reached back then.
If you are an alpha male type who needs goals then really there is not too much to worry about (although I would not think going over your recommended heart rate for your age is at all good). It that is what you want to get out of it then do go for it.
The other option (that I think is better for you) is to push for endurance. Get up to doing 100 milers. That is building stamina. While I suppose an hours cycling is not a sprint it will build you in a different way.

I just cycle to enjoy it now. Generally I don't even time or measure the ride. Just go out, enjoy it, come back. It does all really doing that in a way that suits you.


----------



## Rob3rt (24 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> So the consensus seems to be that you CAN do it if you want to but I would say WHY do it?
> 
> I am a similar age and it is a fact of life that we are not as fast or fit as we may have been 30 years ago (you don't get many 55 year old sportsmen).
> To achieve something you perhaps did 30 years ago will not be proving that you have not aged or are as good as you were, as you will certainly need to put in more effort to get the same result you reached back then.
> ...



There are recommended heart rates people should not exceed based on age?


----------



## 50000tears (24 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> There are recommended heart rates people should not exceed based on age?



I hope not or else I am in a lot of trouble on some of my interval sessions.


----------



## numbnuts (24 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> I hope not or else I am in a lot of trouble on some of my interval sessions.


age and maximum heart rate uk

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm


----------



## Over The Hill (24 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> There are recommended heart rates people should not exceed based on age?



Yes it comes down quite a bit.

The link above is good and has a scale. Basically I put in cycling for an average person aged 25 and 55 and it comes up with max heart rate of 195 for the younger person and 165 for the older. 

Andrew Marr puts his stroke down to over exercise and there is an interesting quote in an article in the Telegraph on Marr -

_Sports cardiologist Dr James O’Keefe, from the Mid America Heart Institute, has carried out a number of studies on the impact exercise has on the body, and says that moderation is the key. 
“There is this growing movement toward longer and more intense exercise into middle age and the body simply doesn’t recover as well," he said. 
“Exercise can cause damage to the heart, including causing premature ageing. The bottom line is that when you get to 40 you have to be more moderate about your exercise. 
"When you overdo it you give up most of the longevity conferring benefits - if you are running marathons long term you won't live any longer than someone who is a coach potato. 
“Exercise is probably one of the single best things that you can do for your health, but if you overdose you start getting other affects that outweigh those benefits, and in extreme doses they even have fatal complications.”_

So really it seems a bit counterproductive to try to keep up with something you did aged 25 when you are 55. 
I keep meaning to get a heart rate monitor to see what I max out at.


----------



## uclown2002 (24 Feb 2014)




----------



## smutchin (24 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> I would say WHY do it?
> ...
> I just cycle to enjoy it now.



Your idea of enjoyment might not be the same as the OP's.


----------



## Big Nick (24 Feb 2014)

Whilst I keep an eye on average speed to try and stay within a reasonable zone of 12-15 mph, for me stamina is much more important.
I'd much rather be able to ride 50 leisure miles without being destroyed than blasting 20 miles to exhaustion which seems more like racing to me
Each to their own though, I would suggest whether you reach your goal is largely dependent on steep/long hill route avoidance!!


----------



## 400bhp (24 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> Yes it comes down quite a bit.
> 
> The link above is good and has a scale. Basically I put in cycling for an average person aged 25 and 55 and it comes up with max heart rate of 195 for the younger person and 165 for the older.
> 
> ...



What claptrap.


----------



## 400bhp (24 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> So the consensus seems to be that you CAN do it if you want to but I would say WHY do it?
> 
> blah blah....
> .
> *The other option (that I think is better for you) is to push for endurance. Get up to doing 100 milers*. That is building stamina. While I suppose an hours cycling is not a sprint it will build you in a different way.



But WHY?


----------



## uclown2002 (24 Feb 2014)

And perhaps he can already cycle 100 miles.


----------



## 50000tears (24 Feb 2014)

Well even if I won't live longer than the couch potato, at least in my later years I will be far more active and able to live a fuller life.


----------



## Jon George (24 Feb 2014)

Okay, maybe a bit of expansion on my original post is called for. It has never been my intention in my cycling to attempt to emulate the strength and stamina of my youth - it's mostly been about staving off the decrepitudes of old age and reducing the risks of possible hereditary disease - and, as such, on Mon-Fri I spend about an hour-and-a-half each day out on the bike, and indulging in much longer and much slower rides on Sunday. (Last year I did a couple of 100 milers.) The weekday routes alternate between a flat course and (for Suffolk) one with a succession of hillocks I rush up as a form of interval training. On these latter rides, my MHR has been 187 and I recovered to reasonably normal breathing in less than a minute. I am convinced that the way I approach keeping fit is doing me far more good than any risk I may or may not be taking given my age (I'm a great believer in 'listening' to my body and not excessively over-exerting myself. I think Andrew Marr just leapt into strenuous exertions without any sensible build-up.) If my average weekday speed increases slightly as a consequence of attempting to achieve, just once, an average of 20mph over 20 miles, I'll take that and even if the kids and younger people still keep whizzing past, then I'll bid them good day and carry on enjoying my ride at my pace.

Alpha-male? I moved beyond such limiting restrictions over thirty years ago.


----------



## Over The Hill (25 Feb 2014)

Thanks for clarification Jon.
I seem to be getting a bit of flack for firstly pointing out the lower hear rate limits advised as we get older but really I think it is worth noting as it is silly to put effort into doing good for yourself if there is a negative side that can be avoided.

I then read into the original post that you may be rather goal-led and so was suggesting other goals. Clearly though you are doing a lot of cycling over a week and that does put it in a different context to if you just did one hour a week hammering it all the way.
I am perhaps fortunate in that I only took up cycling aged 45 ten years ago and so was rather past my prime at the outset!


----------



## Jon George (25 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> I seem to be getting a bit of flack for pointing out the lower hear rate limits advised as we get older



Don't you know that no flak = no opinion? 

But you do raise an issue I've been confused about ever since I leant about MHR. Am I correct in understanding it's the maximum your body _can_ achieve, or am I meant to use it as a limit to what I _should_ be putting my body to? Clarification, anybody?


----------



## Rob3rt (25 Feb 2014)

Jon George said:


> Don't you know that no flak = no opinion?
> 
> But you do raise an issue I've been confused about ever since I leant about MHR. Am I correct in understanding it's the maximum your body _can_ achieve, or am I meant to use it as a limit to what I _should_ be putting my body to? Clarification, anybody?



Max heart rate for a given activity is the maximum heart rate your body can achieve when doing said activity. It is a physiological limit NOT a recommendation and it will vary depending on the activity undertaken, for example you will be able to achieve a higher max heart rate running than you will cycling.

@Over The Hill seems to have become confused and assumed it is a recommendation, at least that is what I am gathering. This is not the case, it is a limit, the absolute max you can acheive and the formula's simply predict/estimate what value you should be able to achieve as a maximum (not a value you should aim to stay below, in fact it would be impossible to exceed if the formula's were any good - which they aren't - since it is a maximum limit, you can't exceed the maximum), based on age since it is known that the maximum heart rate one can achieve generally falls with age.


----------



## ColinJ (25 Feb 2014)

I met a cyclist well into his 80s a couple of years ago, on his way back from a ride! He had been pretty handy on a bike in his youth, and had done a 100 mile TT in about 4.5 hours in his mid-60s - about 22.2 mph average speed. So, yes - 20 mph is a realistic goal, and one that isn't exactly going to wear out most people in reasonable health if they train for it.

In fact, 20 mph is the target speed I have in mind for my local 'Cragg Vale loop' which is 20 miles in length and has about 1,300 ft of climbing. I am 58 now and recovering from a serious illness. (I did the loop in 1 hr 9 min (17.4 mph) when I was 50 and in reasonable but not peak fitness, which is about the time that my current avatar picture was taken.)

I agree with the sentiment of 50000tears, above ... I am not interested in living a boring life to the age of 100. I would much rather have fun on my bike and if as a result of the effort I die at 75, 80, 85 (whatever), fine! Most people extend their lives through exercise and it will be just a few fanatics who do so much that they actually damage their bodies.


----------



## Rob3rt (25 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> I just cycle to enjoy it now.



Not singling you out here, or really even replying to you, I just wanted to comment how I find it rather odd that those of us who chase times/speed and whatnot are often assumed to do it for some other reason than that stated above. Do people really think that performance focused riders cycle without enjoyment?


----------



## smutchin (25 Feb 2014)

Age-based formulae for MHR are good for working out population averages but notoriously unreliable for providing meaningful data relating to individuals. Having a MHR of 185 at age 55 puts you well above the national average and suggests you're probably healthier than the average person, but you'd need to get a more detailed analysis by sciencey boffin types to find out what your true condition is.

OTH is right to say that as you get older your capacities will diminish - and no amount of training can overcome that completely - but I think your goal of 20mph is both achievable and probably safe for your health.

You can use MHR as a rough guide to estimating your level of effort, and if you look into things like functional threshold power, you can use it to help build your training program, but it's probably best not to read too much into it.


----------



## smutchin (25 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Not singling you out here, or really even replying to you, I just wanted to comment how I find it rather odd that those of us who chase times/speed and whatnot are often assumed to do it for some other reason than that stated above.



Quite. My idea of enjoyment is a balls-out effort that leaves me physically exhausted. I enjoy it even more if I've beaten my PB. I think the OP's 20mph target is admirable even if I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.


----------



## 50000tears (25 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Not singling you out here, or really even replying to you, I just wanted to comment how I find it rather odd that those of us who chase times/speed and whatnot are often assumed to do it for some other reason than that stated above. Do people really think that performance focused riders cycle without enjoyment?




I agree with this entirely. My current training is showing good results and as a result I can travel further, faster and recover quicker. The more I train and the fitter I get the more I am enjoying my cycling. If I get to a point that I don't think the payoff is enough for the hard efforts I make in training, then I will either ease off or rethink the program. Not anywhere near that point though yet, as at the moment I just want to get better and better and my journey has just begun.


----------



## Over The Hill (25 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Not singling you out here, or really even replying to you, I just wanted to comment how I find it rather odd that those of us who chase times/speed and whatnot are often assumed to do it for some other reason than that stated above. Do people really think that performance focused riders cycle without enjoyment?


Good point. I suppose it is more a phrase to mean that it ticks the box whatever. Perhaps like running a marathon, for some they are just happy to do it while others are aiming to be the fastest or others aiming to beat a PB. In a way they are all goals and we choose to set ourselves easy or more difficult goals.

Perhaps as I have always been really bad at all sports and never the fastest at anything that I don't go down that route. Would you enjoy the ride if you had a goal of 20mph and came in at 19.5? I suppose it is the same as if I did a 100 miler but had to stop 5 miles short.

On the heart rate, I guess it is an issue for all cyclists, not just those who set themselves a speed target. We basically can all bust a gut on a hill if we push it too much.

I really don't know the answer on heart rate, is the limit set lower by our older bodies or is the medical recommendation that we impose an upper limit on ourselves?


----------



## Jon George (25 Feb 2014)

@Rob3rt @ColinJ @smutchin - thanks all for your clarification. Watch this space ...


----------



## Rob3rt (25 Feb 2014)

Over The Hill said:


> On the heart rate, I guess it is an issue for all cyclists, not just those who set themselves a speed target. We basically can all bust a gut on a hill if we push it too much.
> 
> I really don't know the answer on heart rate, is the limit set lower by our older bodies or is the medical recommendation that we impose an upper limit on ourselves?



The limit (i.e. your max heart rate) is a physiological limit. The formulae estimate (rather poorly for an individual) what this limit is based on age. It is not a medical recommendation or a limit you impose on yourself.


----------



## mattobrien (4 Mar 2014)

@Jon George I have just managed my first 20mph average ride of the year, a 21.5 mile loop, so as much help as hindrance from the wind etc.

Previous best ave of the year was 19.3mph, but I went for a mid length ride with @Andrew_Culture at the weekend, so after a day off yesterday the legs felt good. To get the average I wanted, I had to properly push myself, but hopefully the only way is up for the rest of the season and when I get out on the lighter / faster summer bike I ought to be in good shape for some much better averages.

If you fancy joining me and @Andrew_Culture for a quicker rider some day soon, just let me know.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (4 Mar 2014)

Glad you did well today, I thought I had limped round the miles I did this morning but it wasn't too bad and average. I'm noticing a huge difference between those who have consistently put in the miles (regardless of speed) and those of us who haven't.

More miles needed!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (4 Mar 2014)

My point being that Jon has definitely put in the miles!


----------



## Jon George (4 Mar 2014)

[quote="mattobrien, post: 2960826, member: 17550If you fancy joining me and @Andrew_Culture for a quicker rider some day soon, just let me know.[/quote]

Good show! I'd like to get another couple of weeks under my belt before I dare accompany you young whipper-snappers on a faster ride - I'm awaiting parts for my on-board computer/heart monitor so I can check how I'm doing - but it sounds like a great idea.


----------



## mattobrien (4 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Glad you did well today, I thought I had limped round the miles I did this morning but it wasn't too bad and average. I'm noticing a huge difference between those who have consistently put in the miles (regardless of speed) and those of us who haven't.
> 
> More miles needed!


You've got a good base level, so it never take long to do the fine tuning and get back up to full pelt, especially as it get warmer.as I said on Sunday, I am finding the longer, slower stuff helps the fast short stuff and vice versa. Basically lots of riding, differing distances and pace.


----------



## Jon George (4 Mar 2014)

asterix said:


> No, more like level. I do see people with up-tilted saddles and I know from experience I'd get LBP from such a set up. I do core exercises a lot doing building work like wot I do and have very strong back muscles but would still get back pain if not careful.


You, sir, @asterix should consider yourself something of a genius. Though I originally took on your advice with a reasonably open mind - as I thought the seat on my #2 ride was horizontal already - I thought the ache was more to do with no core exercise. However, after going out on the #1 recently - which I received a basic bike-fit for from my LBS after purchase - I compared positions and found #2 seat was, indeed, slightly tilted up. Adjusted and now LBP is a minor discomfort and I'm certain a couple of weeks more core exercises will cure it. Thanks.


----------



## uclown2002 (4 Mar 2014)

Jon
Any progress towards you goal?

By when do you hope to achieve it?


----------



## Jon George (5 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Jon
> Any progress towards you goal?
> 
> By when do you hope to achieve it?


@mattobrien has unilaterally set the bar for June (this year ) at the latest, so that's the target I'm gearing my training for. I'm alternating intervals (using the 'hills' in Suffolk to sprint up) and a flat course during the week, and longer, slower rides on Sunday. (But, hey, the sun's out, I feel I owe it myself to catch it and I'm off out on a 40 miler this afternoon, Wednesday. I'll treat it as time for subconscious planning for my writing. ) When the replacement parts arrive for my bike computer, I will report back.


----------



## mattobrien (5 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> @mattobrien has unilaterally set the bar for June (this year ) at the latest, so that's the target I'm gearing my training for. I'm alternating intervals (using the 'hills' in Suffolk to sprint up) and a flat course during the week, and longer, slower rides on Sunday. (But, hey, the sun's out, I feel I owe it myself to catch it and I'm off out on a 40 miler this afternoon, Wednesday. I'll treat it as time for subconscious planning for my writing. ) When the replacement parts arrive for my bike computer, I will report back.


I have been looking at how nice a day it is and there isn't a moment I haven't wanted to be on a bike instead of in meetings, or on a train as I am currently. 40 miles ought to help with the short quick stuff too. I am hoping I may have the inclination to go ought tonight after I am home and the little ones are sleeping. Chances are I'll feel tired, but here's hoping I get a second wind...


----------



## Andrew_Culture (5 Mar 2014)

I can squeeze in a couple of hours tomorrow morning if you like.


----------



## maltloaf (5 Mar 2014)

I've just come across this thread and I'm wondering the same.

I got back into cycling last summer at over 20stone and most of my rides were around 16-20 miles. At the start of the summer, just back on the bike, I was only getting 14mph average. Through the summer I quickly got up to 16s and then regular 17s and managed 18.x twice.

I had to have a month off in September to look after my new baby and ill partner but was back on the bike in October and concentrating on putting miles in my legs which I did 20+ miles almost every day but at dwindling averages. The averages recessed back to 15s and 16s but in the last month or so and especially the last fortnight have really taken off. I have gone from 16s to regular 17s and three of the last four rides have been over 18mph average.

I have a (what I think is realistic) aim of making 19mph my baseline over the summer with a dream of hitting a 20 one day.

This thread has some great encouragement so thank you for that.

My stats, for the record.
Age 41
18.5 stone down from 20.5 stone in October
Last summer/autumn mileage 2285
Max hr 185bmp
Usual training hr 160-165bpm

Many thanks,

Kev


----------



## Jon George (5 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> (But, hey, the sun's out, I feel I owe it myself to catch it and I'm off out on a 40 miler this afternoon, Wednesday



It was so nice and I was having so much fun, I did 46, instead.



Andrew_Culture said:


> I can squeeze in a couple of hours tomorrow morning if you like.



If I do any tomorrow, it'll be a short one - I need to recovery from today's over-indulgence!


----------



## Jon George (5 Mar 2014)

maltloaf said:


> I have a (what I think is realistic) aim of making 19mph my baseline over the summer with a dream of hitting a 20 one day.
> This thread has some great encouragement so thank you for that.



I'll encourage you and you can do the same for me.  I just want to do it, at least once. (Without killing myself. )


----------



## maltloaf (5 Mar 2014)

I'm pretty sure we can get there and sooner rather than later. My speeds are definitely on the upturn.


----------



## 400bhp (5 Mar 2014)

maltloaf said:


> I've just come across this thread and I'm wondering the same.
> 
> I got back into cycling last summer at over 20stone and most of my rides were around 16-20 miles. At the start of the summer, just back on the bike, I was only getting 14mph average. Through the summer I quickly got up to 16s and then regular 17s and managed 18.x twice.
> 
> ...



Go for it!

It will hurt getting there, that's a given,


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Mar 2014)

I wonder where you ride to get those times of averages . I did this ride today with a friend http://app.strava.com/activities/117932185 and the average is 16 .
A normal one on my own here http://app.strava.com/activities/117741503 at 14.7 .
I guess maybe as i am in London , traffic and lights slow me down ? Maybe i am just slow . It doesn't bother me really as i don't get hung up on stats i just enjoy what i am doing but it does make me curious .
I guess it also doesn't help that i start my timer before i get out the front door and turn it off when i get in .


----------



## maltloaf (5 Mar 2014)

1 mile from my house and I'm in the countryside. It definitely makes a difference not having to stop/start

Here's one of mine ... http://connect.garmin.com/activity/454546878


----------



## Herbie (5 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> Over the last two years I have achieved my targets of radically improving my fitness and losing weight. (There's still some flab that could go - that's a work in progress.) There has also been the unexpected bonuses of rediscovering a love for cycling and a passion for being out-and-about in the Suffolk countryside which more than compensates for the effort involved. And while - ironically - I've become less interested in targets the more miles I put in, I still hanker after being able to know I can do 20 miles in under an hour. This time, last year, I was able to do it in an average of just under 18 mph - the heart monitor said it was mostly done in the red zone - but is this a reasonable, and sensible, goal for someone of my age (fifty-five),to aim for?




east peasy


----------



## Jon George (5 Mar 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> I wonder where you ride to get those times of averages .



Ipswich. Four minutes from my house and I'm on a road heading into the countryside knowing the only thing that's going to slow me down are black 4x4s, murderously huge tractors and the thick mud both aforementioned vehicles leave in their wake. Even though other locals have a good go at culling me like badgers, pheasants and wood pigeons, I love where I live. Today was a great ride. London? - you have my sympathies.


----------



## 50000tears (5 Mar 2014)

maltloaf said:


> 1 mile from my house and I'm in the countryside. It definitely makes a difference not having to stop/start
> 
> Here's one of mine ... http://connect.garmin.com/activity/454546878



Nice having such a flat route too. Even when I avoid the hills in my neck of the woods I couldn't find a 20 mile route with less than 1,500ft of climbing. Even laps as flat as I can find them still has over 1,000ft to climb for that distance and numerous traffic lights, junctions and roundabouts.


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Mar 2014)

Hmmmmm 4 seconds out of my house and i have a traffic jam . 4 minutes and i have a duel carriage way but only Twickenham CC are mad enough to use it


----------



## Andrew_Culture (5 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> It was so nice and I was having so much fun, I did 46, instead.
> 
> 
> 
> If I do any tomorrow, it'll be a short one - I need to recovery from today's over-indulgence!


And I should probably do some work


----------



## Mike! (6 Mar 2014)

I dream of a 20mph average, after months of illness and injury 18mph would be fantastic!

I need longer rides and more of them, I know that as my base fitness has all but gone :-(


----------



## Andrew_Culture (6 Mar 2014)

Mike! said:


> I dream of a 20mph average, after months of illness and injury 18mph would be fantastic!
> 
> I need longer rides and more of them, I know that as my base fitness has all but gone :-(



You're welcome to join us Mike! I must organise another unofficial CycleChat ride!


----------



## Mike! (7 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> You're welcome to join us Mike! I must organise another unofficial CycleChat ride!


Would be great once I've had a few more half decent solo rides as I'd hate to slow you guys up. I need a few tests of my knee mainly to see if it can survive 30 miles plus! Although I often wonder how to get away from the wife and two kids for that length of time....


----------



## Andrew_Culture (7 Mar 2014)

Mike! said:


> Would be great once I've had a few more half decent solo rides as I'd hate to slow you guys up. I need a few tests of my knee mainly to see if it can survive 30 miles plus! Although I often wonder how to get away from the wife and two kids for that length of time....



We tend to average a comfy 16


----------



## mattobrien (7 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> We tend to average a comfy 16


You're not mentioning that 18mph+ 100 miler we did


----------



## Andrew_Culture (7 Mar 2014)

mattobrien said:


> You're not mentioning that 18mph+ 100 miler we did



only once!


----------



## Jon George (7 Mar 2014)

Okay, so I've decided to allocate every second Friday as the days I'll be attempting this. So, watch this space if you're any way interested ...

Today's effort - a bit blustery and cars appearing at country road junctions which are normally devoid of anything - on the #2 steed was 18.9. (May have to adjust the start line as today's finish - where I decided to pause and regroup - was at a lay-by notorious for naughty things. ) The most pleasing aspect was I managed to do it all on the drops - quite the achievement for me!


----------



## mattobrien (7 Mar 2014)

That's a brilliant result, well done. If you are hitting 18.9 at the start of March, then a 20mph average isn't too far away.

Are you GPSing / logging your rides anywhere? I for one would love to be able to see how it is going from ride to ride.


----------



## 4F (7 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> You're welcome to join us Mike! I must organise another unofficial CycleChat ride!



Yeah we need another one, but this time on a day when it is not peeing down with rain and blowing a chuffing hoolie ......


----------



## Jon George (7 Mar 2014)

mattobrien said:


> Are you GPSing / logging your rides anywhere? I for one would love to be able to see how it is going from ride to ride.



I'm afraid not - I've just repaired my Blackburn and don't yet have any incentive to change to GPS - but, hopefully, here's the link to the route from Google Maps.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0...4s212560155393390438585.0004f1ae80ce810aa29ee


----------



## maltloaf (7 Mar 2014)

I only did a 17.5mph today but doubled my normal distance to 40 miles as I'm hoping to do a 66 mile route I've planned soon

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/456473837


----------



## Jon George (7 Mar 2014)

maltloaf said:


> I only did a 17.5mph today but doubled my normal distance to 40 miles as I'm hoping to do a 66 mile route I've planned soon
> 
> http://connect.garmin.com/activity/456473837



Still a damn fine result, IMO!


----------



## maltloaf (7 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> Still a damn fine result, IMO!


Thank you. You'll be in the 20s soon with your effort without a shadow of a doubt


----------



## Andrew_Culture (8 Mar 2014)

4F said:


> Yeah we need another one, but this time on a day when it is not peeing down with rain and blowing a chuffing hoolie ......



I'm not sure I'm capable of choosing good weather


----------



## screenman (8 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I'm not sure I'm capable of choosing good weather


You are a writer, could you not make some up?


----------



## Andrew_Culture (8 Mar 2014)

screenman said:


> You are a writer, could you not make some up?



I can create a myth of good weather


----------



## screenman (8 Mar 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I can create a myth of good weather


Send a tail wind up here please as I am just being ordered out on the bike for an hour.


----------



## Jon George (14 Mar 2014)

I was planning I making this a fortnightly attempt, but with the relatively still conditions this Friday morning, I went out on my #1. I managed a PB average of 19.5. 

I'm thinking I may have a go once a week from now on, as I am finding the trick seems to be getting the overall effort right and I suppose practice makes perfect.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (14 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> I was planning I making this a fortnightly attempt, but with the relatively still conditions this Friday morning, I went out on my #1. I managed a PB average of 19.5.
> 
> I'm thinking I may have a go once a week from now on, as I am finding the trick seems to be getting the overall effort right and I suppose practice makes perfect.



Blimey, I'd better get myself up to speed!


----------



## mattobrien (14 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> I was planning I making this a fortnightly attempt, but with the relatively still conditions this Friday morning, I went out on my #1. I managed a PB average of 19.5.
> 
> I'm thinking I may have a go once a week from now on, as I am finding the trick seems to be getting the overall effort right and I suppose practice makes perfect.



Well I can see that if it is you, @Andrew_Culture and I going out for a reasonable paced ride, it won't be you at the back.
Chapeau!


----------



## uclown2002 (14 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> I was planning I making this a fortnightly attempt, but with the relatively still conditions this Friday morning, I went out on my #1. I managed a PB average of 19.5.
> 
> I'm thinking I may have a go once a week from now on, as I am finding the trick seems to be getting the overall effort right and I suppose practice makes perfect.


Only a matter of time now 
Then you can try and maintain it for 25 miles and beyond! Its good to have goals.
I'd like to do 100 miles in 5 hours!!


----------



## Jon George (14 Mar 2014)

mattobrien said:


> it won't be you at the back.


Are you kidding? I have absolutely no qualms about squeezing out as much time as I can drafting!


----------



## Jon George (14 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Then you can try and maintain it for 25 miles and beyond!


Ah, do I hear the siren call of a target? Mmmm  You are a bad person.


----------



## mattobrien (14 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> Are you kidding? I have absolutely no qualms about squeezing out as much time as I can drafting!


In that case you need to join us early morning when the tractors are about, a little later in the year probably, but great drafting can be had then...


----------



## 400bhp (14 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> I was planning I making this a fortnightly attempt, but with the relatively still conditions this Friday morning, I went out on my #1. I managed a PB average of 19.5.
> 
> I'm thinking I may have a go once a week from now on, as I am finding the trick seems to be getting the overall effort right and I suppose practice makes perfect.



I'm changing your goal. 21 average by end August.

You will do this.


----------



## Jon George (14 Mar 2014)

400bhp said:


> I'm changing your goal. 21 average by end August.
> 
> You will do this.



Oh, go on then - I've just got back from the pub - I accept the challenge, sir.  I hope that makes you happy.


----------



## mattobrien (15 Mar 2014)

Jon George said:


> Oh, go on then - I've just got back from the pub - I accept the challenge, sir.  I hope that makes you happy.


I can see I am going to have to speed up!


----------



## Jon George (17 Mar 2014)

About three years ago, when I first emerged as the MAMIL frequently to be spotted on the country roads around |Ipswich, I narrowly averted being someone with All The Gear, No Idea when I bought a set of aero bars. I found I didn't get on with them, primarily because I rarely got a chance to enjoy the sights and my back didn't like the pain, and they were put aside to collect dust. Well, after Friday's attempt, I decided to give them another try and experimented with them, this morning (Monday), prior to having a proper go on Friday. 
Bearing in mind that this statistic includes an initial on-the-hoods warm-up mile with two stops at traffic lights, I found I was enjoying myself so much I decided to go for it and achieved .......... 21.0 mph! 

I am chuffed.


----------



## mattobrien (17 Mar 2014)

@Jon George that's a big improvement, well done.

Is that the same route as before? I am staring to think I might have to give that route a go.

And you know that if it's not on Strava, it didn't happen


----------



## Jon George (17 Mar 2014)

mattobrien said:


> Is that the same route as before? I am staring to think I might have to give that route a go.
> 
> And you know that if it's not on Strava, it didn't happen :whistle:^_^:whistle:




Tweaked it a bit to run on out past Kirton to the roundabouts at Trimley, and later on turned around before the single lane section on the second approach to Trimly, but yep, it's mostly flat!

Strava? Yea, gods, I can remember buying a mechanical stopwatch back in the day.


----------



## Joshua Plumtree (4 Apr 2014)

Achieved it last night for the first time. Fast group ride/race last night over exactly 20 miles. Started out with the medium paced group, but when the faster lads came past after a couple of minutes went with them for the last 18.5 miles or so. Only ridden this particular ride a couple of times; last autumn when the fast group came past I just had to let them go!

20 miles at an average of 21.5mph in 55. something or other mins.

As Jon George said, I'm well chuffed. 

Ps. I'm 53, so think I qualify as a MAMIL.


----------



## Jon George (4 Apr 2014)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Achieved it last night for the first time. Fast group ride/race last night over exactly 20 miles. Started out with the medium paced group, but when the faster lads came past after a couple of minutes went with them for the last 18.5 miles or so. Only ridden this particular ride a couple of times; last autumn when the fast group came past I just had to let them go!
> 
> 20 miles at an average of 21.5mph in 55. something or other mins.
> 
> ...



Well, done!


----------



## Joshua Plumtree (4 Apr 2014)

Jon George said:


> Well, done!



Thanks, Mr George.


----------



## thefollen (4 Apr 2014)

I was so close last weekend to the three laps of Richmond Park in 1 hour. Came in at 1hr 1min 44secs. A couple of 'lap killers' in the form of traffic but wasn't too bad. Well done if you can do the 20miles in an hour, it's tough going!


----------



## Mr Bunbury (4 Apr 2014)

I'm really impressed by this thread: I love how the OP has given something a go, has found he can do more than he thought possible and has revised his goals upwards. 

20 miles at 21 mph at this time of year is good stuff. You should add a bit more speed as you get used to the clip-ons and your muscles adapt to that position - and also as you train more after the winter, of course. If you can do what you've done now, you should really consider entering a 25 mile TT later this year and seeing how close you can get to the hour for that - especially as pinning a number on your back always gives you an extra bit of magic free speed!


----------



## Jon George (5 Apr 2014)

Mr Bunbury said:


> I'm really impressed by this thread: I love how the OP has given something a go, has found he can do more than he thought possible and has revised his goals upwards.



 Thank you - and I rarely get embarrassed.


----------



## Mr_K_Dilkington (7 Apr 2014)

Can anyone in London suggest where would be beat to give this a crack? Almost everywhere would kill my average with traffic (unless done at 3am) or red lights. Maybe a very early morning doing laps of Regents Park? Richmond Park could be good, but I'd rather make my life a little easier by cutting out (the admittedly short) climbs in the Park. 

Anywhere else that people can get long, flat, unimpeded runs in London?


----------



## Jon George (11 Apr 2014)

I find it rather bizarre that I'm a little disappointed about this, but today's attempt only equalled my previous best i.e. an average 21.0 mph. Given as how on the first occasion I inadvertently had a mile's worth of warm up and today's only had a few hiccups with a couple of cars suddenly stopping and holding me up, I thought I could improve upon it by some margin. I take comfort from the fact that I'd pitched the effort about right - I just about had nothing left in the tank at the end - but I suspect any aspirations for achieving say, 25 miles in under an hour, must probably remain in the realms of people who own more specialised equipment beyond my clip-on aero-bars, and a tad more incentive. Mind you, now that I've got two flapjacks and a coffee with honey inside me, the pain is beginning to fade into simple exertion ...  

(And, of course, I shouldn't even be the tiniest disheartened - I'm exceedingly fitter than I was three years ago and I'm enjoying life. Time for another coffee, methinks.)


----------



## 4F (11 Apr 2014)

Jon, you should not be disappointed. Rather than increase the time over an hour how about going for an average of 20 over 2 hours ?


----------



## totallyfixed (11 Apr 2014)

A couple of things, your warm up is way too short, 15 - 20 mins is the minimum for 1 hour efforts, including a few 30 secs to a min sprint intervals, at the moment you are risking injury and don't forget to include at least 10 mins warm down.
The faster you go, the more difficult it is to go faster because of drag, as 4F says you would be better trying to hold 20 mph for 2 hours, much more difficult but by training for this you will have a bit more in the tank for a stronger finish in the 1 hour efforts. 
Certainly worth going along to a local club and doing one of their evening TT's if you really want to go quicker, plus you will pick up a lot of useful tips. The downside is you might be tempted by a few of the bikes you will see  
[in advice giving mode as I can't ride for a while]


----------



## 4F (11 Apr 2014)

Jon, the local 10 mile TT series has started on Tue evenings. Full details here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.m.butler/ Link halfway down "Ipswich Cycling Association"


----------



## Jon George (11 Apr 2014)

4F said:


> Rather than increase the time over an hour how about going for an average of 20 over 2 hours ?


Hadn't considered this - good idea. 



4F said:


> Jon, the local 10 mile TT series has started on Tue evenings. Full details here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.m.butler/ Link halfway down "Ipswich Cycling Association"



This is tempting - just for the hell of it, I might give it a try.


----------



## Mr_K_Dilkington (18 Apr 2014)

Not a MAMIL (I'm a 27 year old naturally skinny guy), but I'm very new to cycling (only 2 and a half months in after no exercise for years) and this thread inspired me to give this a go. Got it done today fair easily at HIllingdon Circuit, even though there was a fairly strong northerly wind blowing - 20.4 miles in an hour. Pretty chuffed and I think there is still lots of room for improvement (pacing, faster cornering, body positioning, accelerating harder, etc). Link here: http://www.strava.com/activities/131457606


----------



## Jon George (18 Apr 2014)

Mr_K_Dilkington said:


> Not a MAMIL (I'm a 27 year old naturally skinny guy)



Give it another thirty years and you'll pad out quite nicely. 

BTW Well done! And keep us posted on your improvements.


----------



## Mr_K_Dilkington (18 Apr 2014)

Jon George said:


> Give it another thirty years and you'll pad out quite nicely.
> 
> BTW Well done! And keep us posted on your improvements.



If sustainable, hopefully remaining veggie and cycling for over 150 miles per week on average will keep the pounds off


----------



## uclown2002 (18 Apr 2014)

Mr_K_Dilkington said:


> Not a MAMIL (I'm a 27 year old naturally skinny guy), but I'm very new to cycling (only 2 and a half months in after no exercise for years) and this thread inspired me to give this a go. Got it done today fair easily at HIllingdon Circuit, even though there was a fairly strong northerly wind blowing - 20.4 miles in an hour. Pretty chuffed and I think there is still lots of room for improvement (pacing, faster cornering, body positioning, accelerating harder, etc). Link here: http://www.strava.com/activities/131457606


Good effort. 
Now try and extend the distance while maintaining 20mph!


----------



## 400bhp (18 Apr 2014)

Mr_K_Dilkington said:


> Not a MAMIL (I'm a 27 year old naturally skinny guy), but I'm very new to cycling (only 2 and a half months in after no exercise for years) and this thread inspired me to give this a go. Got it done today fair easily at HIllingdon Circuit, even though there was a fairly strong northerly wind blowing - 20.4 miles in an hour. Pretty chuffed and I think there is still lots of room for improvement (pacing, faster cornering, body positioning, accelerating harder, etc). Link here: http://www.strava.com/activities/131457606



We can put many caveats into this (closed circuit so no stopping/good surface/only 20 miles etc etc) but that's bl00dy good for just 2 months. You must have a natural cycling ability. Keep it up.


----------



## totallyfixed (18 Apr 2014)

The challenge now is to keep it up for 100 miles, seems like 1 hour is almost too easy .


----------



## mattobrien (22 Apr 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> The challenge now is to keep it up for 100 miles, seems like 1 hour is almost too easy .


I think you might be onto something there - I can see a new thread starting on this challenge. Anyone else up for it? @Andrew_Culture, @4F, @Jon George I can see that not doing 100% of the time in the wind may aid the propensity to actually achieve this one


----------



## 4F (22 Apr 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> The challenge now is to keep it up for 100 miles, seems like 1 hour is almost too easy .



On a fixed, none of this poncy gears nonsense.


----------



## mattobrien (22 Apr 2014)

4F said:


> On a fixed, none of this poncy gears nonsense.


 New thread started http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/100-miles-in-5-hours-challenge.154680/

And asking for contributions / rules suggestions. I now see a @4F amendment, no gears for him allowed. Bon chance...


----------



## Andrew_Culture (22 Apr 2014)

mattobrien said:


> I think you might be onto something there - I can see a new thread starting on this challenge. Anyone else up for it? @Andrew_Culture, @4F, @Jon George I can see that not doing 100% of the time in the wind may aid the propensity to actually achieve this one



You meant I have to take my time out front, well that's me out


----------



## mattobrien (23 Apr 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> You meant I have to take my time out front, well that's me out


I know you prefer second wheel, or third or fourth, depending on how many riders there are.

Having someone to chat to / try to drop is always enough


----------



## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2014)

mattobrien said:


> I know you prefer second wheel, or third or fourth, depending on how many riders there are.
> 
> Having someone to chat to / try to drop is always enough



I just need to make an effort to get faster!


----------



## dodgy (23 Apr 2014)

Mr_K_Dilkington said:


> Link here: http://www.strava.com/activities/131457606



A good demonstration of Strava's propensity to overdo the elevation - 663 ft 

But well done.


----------



## wam68 (29 Nov 2014)

Should have read this thread before yesterday and todays burnout. Completely destroyed at the minute and I know this will last a few days. Legs on fire, permanent thirst and so tired. Take it from me '' Pride before a Fall '' has never been more appropriate. My advice is listen to what the older, more sensible members are suggesting.

PS '' In a few days I will completely ignore this advice and do it all again.''


----------



## TheJDog (1 Dec 2014)

dodgy said:


> A good demonstration of Strava's propensity to overdo the elevation - 663 ft
> 
> But well done.



I'm surprised the elevation isn't more. There's easily 10ft of elevation in a lap of Hillingdon.

edit: I have replied to an ancient post.


----------



## mustang1 (1 Dec 2014)

This reminds me of years ago when I went on a bike mechanic course taught by an ex bike racer. We went out for lunch and I told him my impressive stats that I could cycle 10 miles in only 40 minutes (!). The racer guy didn't say anything so I thought he didn't hear me. I repeated it and again no response. On the way back from lunch I told him again but he just wasn't responding.

Only later on I found how crap my stats were and that I should have kept my big mouth shut. 

On the plus side though it was 40 minutes in traffic during rush hour.

PS: why do they call it "rush HOUR" when the rush lasts several hours morning and several hours in the evening, and things aren't much better in between?


----------

