# Horses and recumbent bikes



## andytheflyer (17 Jan 2015)

I bought a SWB bent in November and have since covered about 300 miles.(A 2006 TW Bents Amigo - looks like a Nazca Fuego).

Initially I was worried about close passes from trucks and cars on the country lanes in South Cheshire and North Shropshire that I ride regularly. However, I was reassured by others on this forum who believe that the uncommon appearance of a 'bent in a car or truck windscreen encourages those drivers to slow down more than they would for a DF bike, and give the 'bent a wider berth. To date I've not felt threatened by a motor vehicle on the local lanes, despite some very narrow roads around here. In fact I wish some of them would pass more quickly as keeping a 'bent on a straight path with a truck slowly creeping alongside is far more difficult than on my Defy.

But not so the horses.

We may have as many horses in this area as people - so I encounter a horse or 2 on most rides - and maybe 50% of them seem to be spooked by a 'bent. Once they appear around a hawthorn hedge-hidden corner I switch off my flashing front light, slow right down and call out to the rider if it's OK to proceed. Sometimes I stop to wait for them to pass, sometimes I carry on slowly, but talking to the rider so that the horse knows that whatever it is on the road ahead has a human being associated with it, and the rider knows what my intentions as a fellow road user are.

But, sometimes, no matter how much care I approach with, some horses are spooked - and that is way more scary than being passed by a horse box on a narrow road. You have no idea if the spooked horse, with ears pricked or laid back, whites of the eyes showing, and a clearly nervous rider, is about to launch itself into a frenzy and challenge you for occupancy of your seat. A car is only marginally higher than me on the road, a horse is way taller, dangerous at both ends, and much less predictable.

Not sure there's much more I or the riders can do, and invariably they thank me for my consideration - but I approach every horse I meet on our narrow lanes as an incident waiting to happen. I rarely have the same problem with my DF bike - horses seem far more used to them.

Does anyone else have the same problem?


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## Soltydog (17 Jan 2015)

My wife has horses & it appears they do always spook at bents. I don't think there's anything more you can do, you are doing everything you can, but because horses don't see many bents, they never seem to get used to them & will normally spook.
i'd just give them as much room as possible so that they can't kick out at you


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## Mrs M (17 Jan 2015)

If the horses come from a local stable you could maybe take the bent there and let the horses inspect it at their leisure.
To them just now it's something they haven't seen on the road before and they will be worried about that.
Seems you are already doing what you can and I'm sure the riders appreciate your consideration and thoughtfulness.


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## Scoosh (17 Jan 2015)

Not had it as a 'problem' but I know exactly what you mean.

I've had a couple of interesting encounters with horses, both very amicable and informative for me. 

First one, I was approaching a horse and rider with a lady leading the horse, quiet village road. I saw the horse begin to twitch when I was about 100m behind them, so slowed down and called out, informing them that I was there and asking if it was safe to proceed. The lady leading the horse called me through and said that the horse could hear me but not see me - which was surprising, as I was a long way back.  She told me that horses have very acute hearing but need to be able to see to be re-assured.

The second occasion was when I was going up a 13-15% climb  and a horse and rider were coming down. I slowed down (ahem) and gently fell off and lay (as gracefully as I could ) at the side of the road and the lady rider told me that it was my flag flapping which was unsettling the horse. I restrained the flag and they passed safely for all. 

So flags and very acute hearing but not seeing are twitch points for horses around here !

As has been said, you seem to be doing everything right - they just need to get used to seeing you !

I was also thinking about going to the stables to let them see you and the 'bent.


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## steveindenmark (17 Jan 2015)

I have horses and bents.

I had a horse that could jump a 5 bar gate. But sometimes couldnt walk past a crisp packet, a leaf or some other mundane thing without getting worked up. They are odd creatures.

You are doing all you can at the moment. Even if you get off the Bent, they wont like it. But dont worry about the riders, they will be used to the horse throwing a tantrum occasionally. Its part of the fun being on a horse.

Keep slowing down and talking.


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## Twinks (17 Jan 2015)

As a horseowner I agree you're doing all you can. I would appreciate you keeping talking and I would talk back to you as my horse is usually reassured if I speak to anything she is worried about........strange creatures. I don't think you are in danger, the horse is a flight animal and its instinct is to flee from what it fears, it will usually only kick if cornered.


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## ufkacbln (17 Jan 2015)

It is simple....

Horses are "prey" animals and all their reactions are based upon this outlook on life


Predatory animals evolved to be low sleek and fast, as this gives them the edge


Now look at your recumbent .... it is low, sleek (and depending upon the rider) fast

For this reason horses will always see recumbents as a threat and act according to their prey status


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## Soltydog (17 Jan 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> It is simple....
> Horses are "prey" animals and all their reactions are based upon this outlook on life
> Predatory animals evolved to be low sleek and fast, as this gives them the edge
> Now look at your recumbent .... it is low, sleek (and depending upon the rider) fast
> For this reason horses will always see recumbents as a threat and act according to their prey status


Very good way of looking at it, not thought of it like that


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## andytheflyer (17 Jan 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> It is simple....
> 
> Horses are "prey" animals and all their reactions are based upon this outlook on life
> 
> ...





That may explain it. ................and I've been called lots of things over the years - but 'sleek' isn't one of them (as an ex rugby playing oarsman!)


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## ufkacbln (17 Jan 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> That may explain it. ................and I've been called lots of things over the years - but 'sleek' isn't one of them (as an ex rugby playing oarsman!)




I have spent years developing an "aerobelly"

Non recumbent riders will never know the aerodynamic advantage of a more portly figure.


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## Saluki (17 Jan 2015)

Where I used to ride, way back in the late 80s, I used to see Mike Burrows most days on a 'bent. My horses all used to dance the fandango when they saw him. I think that it was mostly the flag noise that they didn't like. He used to say - while I was battling not to be carted off up the road - "They'll get used to them". Most of them bloomin' didn't.

Give horses extra room and maybe even a cheerful call out to the rider before passing. Once you are level with those lethal rear hooves, maybe get a bit of a wiggle one, especially if the rider is struggling and the horse is dancing about. I know that I appreciated a swift pass after being made aware that Mike was closing in on us.


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## CopperBrompton (17 Jan 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Does anyone else have the same problem?


I stop, get off and stand up, and talk to the rider.


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## andytheflyer (18 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the responses - it's obviously not just me that spooks horses!

I started out with a flag, but once I realised that traffic gives me a wide berth anyway, I gave it up as it was clearly a potential factor in disturbing the horses.

Getting off and standing up is more of a problem for me - I have spinal cord damage in my neck which reduces my mobility, so getting on and off any bike becomes an exercise in planning, preparation and precise but slow execution - I can't just hop off! But I suspect if I was about to be flattened by half a tonne of horse I'd find a way of moving sharpish!


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## ufkacbln (18 Jan 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Thanks for the responses - it's obviously not just me that spooks horses!
> 
> I started out with a flag, but once I realised that traffic gives me a wide berth anyway, I gave it up as it was clearly a potential factor in disturbing the horses.
> 
> Getting off and standing up is more of a problem for me - I have spinal chord damage in my neck which reduces my mobility, so getting on and off any bike becomes an exercise in planning, preparation and precise but slow execution - I can't just hop off! But I suspect if I was about to be flattened by half a tonne of horse I'd find a way of moving sharpish!




OT.....


My wife has similar issues standing, so we equipped the trike with standing aids.

They make a massive difference


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## cookie32 (18 Jan 2015)

I'm in Suffolk, and I passed a horse I'd say 30 to 40 percent of my rides. This number increases exponentially if I head toward Newmarket. I've learned to take it as it comes. I built my bike so while I was building it this is an issue I became aware of. I started riding Feb 2014 and sure enough horses not care for recumbents in general. I never can tell until I get within 40ft or so unless I do a hard gear shift. You find out real quick if they're settled or not. As a general rule I stop for all horse or creep far enough behind as to not unsettle them until the rider lets me by. Talking helps apparently, like you said it does help the horse to associate you with something human and not something completely unknown. 

I have made one observation, the big fancy racing horses around here are more skidish than the farm/working horses. Sorry if the discription isn't great but I don't know a great deal about horses. Except I know I don't want to be kicked or trampled so I'll stick to pulling back or over.


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## Tigerbiten (18 Jan 2015)

I ride a recumbent trike and I've worked with horses so I know it from both sides.

From in front:- I'll slow down and get ready to stop as needed. I also talk to the horse in a soft voice as I think it help to reassure them. If theres a driveway and the horse looks very skittish then I may well pull in off the road to increase the gap.

From behind:- I'll shout out to the rider "Funny bike behind, can I come passed". I rider says yes then I overtake on the other side of the road at a steady/sensible pace.
If not then I wait untill the rider either pulls in/turns off or finally says it's safe.

A horse will eventually get used to the bent and get less skittish but it may take a bit of time, like seeing it once/twice a week for a year or so.


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## byegad (21 Jan 2015)

I don't think it's the flag. I don't use one on the Kettwiesel and see no difference in Dobbin Behaviour between that and the other two trikes, both of which use a flag. 

I find passing head to head the best thing is to stop as soon as you see the horse react and chat loudly to the rider. From behind I bellow from a very long way back, asking if I'm OK to pass, then once the rider confirms I pass at the extreme right side of the road. Some horses ignore me, others (Most!) are spooked to some degree, as we all have to share the road I do my best to make things as calm as I can.


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## Ridelegalforfun (25 Jan 2015)

My Mum keeps horses and it would be the flappy flag, not the geometry, that I'd expect some horses may be unsure of.

Seeing as you've dealt with that risk, could anything else you're wearing make unusual noises to worry equines.

You're clearly not the only "bent" pilot to encounter such reactions and have already been reassured that conversation with the rider is a very welcome and positive reinforcement strategy.

North Shrops/ Cheshire plains are almost Holland in topography, so enjoy the leafy lanes and byways on wheels and the freedom of mobility it allows you!


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## davyboy (4 May 2015)

Hi I was talking to a horse owner yesterday whilst out on my trike.He said its not the flags what upsets the horse but because we are low they cannot work out what we are.Hope this helps.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (4 May 2015)

Some claim it is the flags, personally most of the time I think it is simply they have no idea what we are. If you talk to them, they often haven't seen you because we are so low to the ground and don't have anything to associate the voice with. Talking and a flag seems to help 19 times out of 20. The 20th time is just a twitchy horse. Around here and on routes I do regularly, I have been offering the rider the opportunity to introduce the horse to my trike. All riders have so far taken me up on my offer. I also always make sure that the rider bring a twitchy horse passed me, so I am stationary and the horse is moving. It is better that way for the horse and I have only had issues with 1 horse to date and to be frank I think it was the rider that was the problem. The horse had been fine right up until the rider realised I was something different. Ironically the horse concerned I see almost everyday in a field and I can ride within 3 foot of it with a fence between us and it is fine. At the weekend when the rider rides it, there is a problem! Work that one out. Anyhow, I have few issues with horses around here and there are masses of horses where I live. If I don't meet a horse every 5 miles (as an average) something is wrong!


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## andytheflyer (4 May 2015)

I've covered about 900 miles on the 'bent since I started this thread, and passed a lot of horses, mostly from behind for some reason.

With one exception (meeting head on) I've not had a problem. The one exception was a particularly skittish horse, and I simply stopped, kept talking and waited until it had danced its way past. As I contemplated the hawthorn hedge on my left elbow.

When coming up behind a horse and rider, I call out "Behind you" and wait for recognition, before slowly overtaking giving as wide a berth as possible. I keep talking all the time so that the horse knows that it's something that should be familiar. I think without exception the riders have expressed their appreciation for the tactic.I explain as I go past that the "strange bike" may spook them so I'll keep talking. 

I quickly abandoned the flag idea - I think it may make matters worse as an additional distraction/stimulus.


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## Arrowfoot (4 May 2015)

Horses no longer have natural predators since they were domesticated. They have a great fear of snakes and anything that hisses, rustles etc. They have acute hearing. Flags and noisy hubs are the usual stimuli. The sight of the vehicle of any size or shape is not the issue, its the sound of something small that seem to spook them.

Call out loudly in a conversational tone to the rider moment you see them. The horse would have heard you anyway quite a way back and the rider would have sensed the horse acting to a sound and would expect someone to call out. The rider will know the animal and will provide specific instructions. As you pass, talk to the horse as you would do a dog especially if your hubs are loud. 

Seasoned riders will not ask you to walk the bike but will ask you to talk to the horse as you ride or they will intentionally keep the conversation going as you pass. Interestingly a large group of riders would not stir them. Anyway keep the chatter going.


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## Sandman-bm (4 May 2015)

I make a point of dropping my flag and standing up when a rider approaches on a horse or telling the rider I am coming up from behind, the usual response is "thankyou" even if I have to ask what it was in Dutch
regards
John


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## Recycle (4 May 2015)

byegad said:


> I don't think it's the flag. I don't use one on the Kettwiesel and see no difference in Dobbin Behaviour between that and the other two trikes, both of which use a flag.
> .


Depends on each horse, they all react differently. I had an impasse with a horse and rider on a bridal path. The path was fenced in on both sides and the horse was skittish on my approach. After unsuccessfully trying all the usual things the rider suggested I remove the flag. As soon as I did so the horse walked by quite happily.
Strange creatures...


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## byegad (5 May 2015)

Recycle said:


> Depends on each horse, they all react differently. I had an impasse with a horse and rider on a bridal path. The path was fenced in on both sides and the horse was skittish on my approach. After unsuccessfully trying all the usual things the rider suggested I remove the flag. As soon as I did so the horse walked by quite happily.
> Strange creatures...



I suspect the Kett' upsets some that a flagged tadpole doesn't. Over the years I'd say the number of upset horses per trike was about even. I did get one young 'lady'* scream at me that I shouldn't ride 'that thing' on the roads. This as dobbin was prancing and snorting at the Kett'. We'd met at a junction so I'd done a hasty stop as soon as I'd seen her.

My rather dusty reply was along the lines that, while I could control my mount, she appeared to be incompetent! I then offered to ride past her unless she moderated her tone. The tone was suddenly much less strident as I sat and chortled while making helpful suggestions. While I do my level best around horses I do rather expect a bit of give and take. 

*I use the term in its broadest sense.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (5 May 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> The rider will know the animal


Around here there are plenty of stables and riding schools as well as equestrian centres (don't ask me I have no idea what the difference is) and equestrian vets which means riders don't know the horse they are riding. OK, there are also lots of stables as well, but that only adds to the number of horses on the roads and lanes in particular.

Quite often along a certain narrow lane (6 foot wide job with hedges on both sides, the type you can't get out of) I will get from a rider that doesn't know the horse they are riding, it is the first time they have ridden the horse and they will often tell me this. A couple of weeks ago I accidentally saved an experienced rider from an equestrian centre when the horse she was riding for the first time having already been spooked by something else was galloping out of control and came across me and stopped dead in its tracks. It had been galloping uncontrollably towards a busy B road and there were vehicles in both directions. She had run out of options until I arrived on the scene and stopped the horse in its tracks. Her response was an apology and an explanation that not only was it the first time she had ridden the horse, and that it has already been spooked by something she had no idea about, but that it was with her to try to deal with this issue! She was very grateful for me arriving on the scene, and rather glad that the horse had no idea what to do next because she was then able to calm it down.


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## Arrowfoot (5 May 2015)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Around here there are plenty of stables and riding schools as well as equestrian centres (don't ask me I have no idea what the difference is) and equestrian vets which means riders don't know the horse they are riding. OK, there are also lots of stables as well, but that only adds to the number of horses on the roads and lanes in particular.
> 
> Quite often along a certain narrow lane (6 foot wide job with hedges on both sides, the type you can't get out of) I will get from a rider that doesn't know the horse they are riding, it is the first time they have ridden the horse and they will often tell me this. A couple of weeks ago I accidentally saved an experienced rider from an equestrian centre when the horse she was riding for the first time having already been spooked by something else was galloping out of control and came across me and stopped dead in its tracks. It had been galloping uncontrollably towards a busy B road and there were vehicles in both directions. She had run out of options until I arrived on the scene and stopped the horse in its tracks. Her response was an apology and an explanation that not only was it the first time she had ridden the horse, and that it has already been spooked by something she had no idea about, but that it was with her to try to deal with this issue! She was very grateful for me arriving on the scene, and rather glad that the horse had no idea what to do next because she was then able to calm it down.




Granted there will be riders that will not know. The general rule around stables is that no horses are to be taken out to public pathways and roads until the horse and rider are reasonably conditoned. Thats means, within their own yard. My worry is owner run hobby stables which are now growing. 

Good thing you knew what to do. A lot of people would struggle. I am lot more comfortable with farms and large stables where there are professional staff and use of bicycles and the sounds that they make are commonplace within the yards. 

Your point about narrow lane and high hedges are spot on. To the horse, they feel trapped.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (5 May 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> Granted there will be riders that will not know. The general rule around stables is that no horses are to be taken out to public pathways and roads until the horse and rider are reasonably conditoned. Thats means, within their own yard. My worry is owner run hobby stables which are now growing.
> 
> Good thing you knew what to do. A lot of people would struggle. I am lot more comfortable with farms and large stables where there are professional staff and use of bicycles and the sounds that they make are commonplace within the yards.
> 
> Your point about narrow lane and high hedges are spot on. To the horse, they feel trapped.


I live on a farm with a stables. All horses have to come out and down into the courtyard to get to anything they can be ridden on (other than the school) so am familiar with them, plus my sister had a horse.
Yesterday we stopped going up the middle of a hill to free a sheep that was trapped in a fence. We are both used to it... that and rounding up herds of cows. The number of times they destroy the fences to fields around here is astonishing! but it is fun hand feeding the calves but they don't half consume a lot of milk!


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## Twinks (5 May 2015)

Throughout this topic I have been pleasantly surprised at the consideration being given to horse riders. I have owned horses most of my life and can tell you it isn't always so with other road users. If a young horse's first experience of a bike, be it a recumbent or otherwise is good then they usually won't be a problem in the future so your patience and consideration is very valuable to the horserider. I had a Connemara pony who was bombproof with any traffic but was terrified of bikes after a mountain biker coming down the Pennine Bridleway on Mount Famine hit a rock, he fell off and his bike came flying through the air to land at the pony's feet. Very unfortunate and it took a lot to reassure her whenever we saw any bikes after that. Sometimes though there just isn't a reason and as someone else has said sometimes it's the rider. A nervous rider is telling the horse there is something to worry about, then the horse decides the focus of the fear.
I am very disappointed at the response you had @byegad from the lady rider. I expect she was panicking but no excuse. We should all have tolerance and a care for the safety of others, it cuts both ways.


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## Arrowfoot (5 May 2015)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> I live on a farm with a stables. All horses have to come out and down into the courtyard to get to anything they can be ridden on (other than the school) so am familiar with them, plus my sister had a horse.
> Yesterday we stopped going up the middle of a hill to free a sheep that was trapped in a fence. We are both used to it... that and rounding up herds of cows. The number of times they destroy the fences to fields around here is astonishing! but it is fun hand feeding the calves but they don't half consume a lot of milk!



You are lucky. A great and a balanced life where I am concerned.


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Lilmo said:


> Throughout this topic I have been pleasantly surprised at the consideration being given to horse riders. I have owned horses most of my life and can tell you it isn't always so with other road users. If a young horse's first experience of a bike, be it a recumbent or otherwise is good then they usually won't be a problem in the future so your patience and consideration is very valuable to the horserider. I had a Connemara pony who was bombproof with any traffic but was terrified of bikes after a mountain biker coming down the Pennine Bridleway on Mount Famine hit a rock, he fell off and his bike came flying through the air to land at the pony's feet. Very unfortunate and it took a lot to reassure her whenever we saw any bikes after that. Sometimes though there just isn't a reason and as someone else has said sometimes it's the rider. A nervous rider is telling the horse there is something to worry about, then the horse decides the focus of the fear.
> I am very disappointed at the response you had @byegad from the lady rider. I expect she was panicking but no excuse. We should all have tolerance and a care for the safety of others, it cuts both ways.




Well, as non-motorised road users, paid for from our tax payments, we all have to get along, so a little courtesy does no harm.

But I'd have to declare a greater interest in not wanting to share my laid-back GRP seat with half a tonne of frenzied horse, lashing out with steel-shod hooves. Even if only for a second or two. My family used to keep horses, so I have a fair understanding of what they weigh, the force implicit in a flying hoof, and just how stupid an apparently intelligent animal can be. If a simple banal conversation (yes, it's a 'funny' bike, coming past, I'll keep talking....) whilst creeping past can avoid an unfortunate incident, then so be it.


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## byegad (5 May 2015)

@Lilmo
Sadly the young lady I mentioned above is not the only bad reaction I've had from horsey types. Some years ago a stables and riding school opened in the village. As usual when I encountered the owner for the first time I stopped and spoke, to let the horse know I'm human (Honest guv' I am!) only to get harsh words and a rather abrupt order to turn around and get out of her way.

A fairly lively conversation ensued in which free and frank views were exchanged. The clincher came when I told her I lived in the village and rode 3-5 times a week so we'd be meeting frequently, and IF her attitude didn't improve I'd abandon my policy of stopping for horses and just ride on each and every time we met, her choice. After that I've always had a cheery thank you for stopping when we meet and she even speaks to me if I'm on foot.

While I'd probably not carried out the threat, after all in a horse recumbent trike encounter the trike is always going to come out of it badly no matter the rights and wrongs, she was not to know this and saw the sense of co operation. She also breaks horses and I often meet her with a new horse on a lead (Probably not the correct horse term.) or on an early road acclimatisation ride and or friendly chatter usually does the trick in calming the horse. I like to think she is selling on horses somewhat used to we strange recumbenteers and one day horses across the county will not even blink when we hove into view.

As you say a bit of tolerance goes a long way.


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## Twinks (5 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Well, as non-motorised road users, paid for from our tax payments, we all have to get along, so a little courtesy does no harm.
> 
> But I'd have to declare a greater interest in not wanting to share my laid-back GRP seat with half a tonne of frenzied horse, lashing out with steel-shod hooves. Even if only for a second or two. My family used to keep horses, so I have a fair understanding of what they weigh, the force implicit in a flying hoof, and just how stupid an apparently intelligent animal can be. If a simple banal conversation (yes, it's a 'funny' bike, coming past, I'll keep talking....) whilst creeping past can avoid an unfortunate incident, then so be it.



Having been on the receiving end of a pair of hooves only last year, and thank God they weren't shod but did have the full half ton of muscle behind them, I can't but agree with you. I'm fully aware when out riding that keeping control of my horse is vital for the safety of others mostly, all I have to do is stay on her.


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## Dogtrousers (5 May 2015)

There's a PDF leaflet from the British Horse Society here

It doesn't say much that hasn't been said above.


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## Tortoise (14 May 2015)

Just as an aside, I find that generally speaking, if the equestrian is female I get a civil and polite reaction; if male, the response is almost always negative to and sometimes beyond, the point of rudeness. I don't know why; the males just seem more often to display a sense of elitist entitlement or something. Or perhaps it's just me!


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## Twinks (14 May 2015)

Tortoise said:


> males just seem more often to display a sense of elitist entitlement or something.


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## Dogtrousers (14 May 2015)

Out riding last weekend I was reminded that horses seem to be at their most dangerous when they are in their boxes.

Twice I was subjected to passes from 4x4s towing horse boxes that would have been perfectly fine if it had just been the towing vehicle. But the driver had forgotten that with the box they are both longer and wider, with the result that the passes were un-fine.


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## paul fellows (15 May 2015)

horses view the world with there ears as well as there eyes, that is why talking works as well as it dose. the horse knows where you are, even if it can not see you past the lump on its back.
i think adding a pigeon whistle to your machine would allow the horse to be aware of your approach before you know it is there


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