# How high is your saddle compared to your bars?



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

I have my bars as high as possible as after 25/35 miles my neck starts to sieze up (its age).
On Saturday my ride took me to Arley Hall where I got talking to a guy that was maybe 6' 2"......maybe more.
He was on a Giant TCR and his saddle must have been 10" higher than his bars. I had to comment on it and his answer was "It was one inch less till my bike fit yesterday and they raised it".
I am no expert but it just looked wrong.
My thought was, surely he needs a bigger frame.


----------



## MontyVeda (1 Jul 2019)

3 1/4" on mine... but it is an MTB

is the guy you mention trying to achieve a horizontal body position, for aerodynamics maybe??


----------



## User6179 (1 Jul 2019)

Saddle and bars are level


----------



## vickster (1 Jul 2019)

See avatar. Saddle higher than bars. Long legs, shorter torso


----------



## Smudge (1 Jul 2019)

Road bike, hybrid & ebikes level
Folder..... bars an inch or two higher than the seat, to make the fold simpler.


----------



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

vickster said:


> See avatar. Saddle higher than bars. Long legs


Honestly that is nothing compared to his. I understand "long legs" although I only have 29" but surely there comes a point when logic says.....bigger frame.


----------



## vickster (1 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Honestly that is nothing compared to his. I understand "long legs" although I only have 29" but surely there comes a point when logic says.....bigger frame.


Presumably it’s a very compact frame set?

If I had a bigger frame, I’d need a much shorter stem. As it is on 54cm frames, I do only have 100mm (5’9.5, 33-34” inside leg)


----------



## DCLane (1 Jul 2019)

It depends on the bike - but the saddle is anything from 3-8" higher. On my NeilPryde Nazare the saddle was 9-10" last year but I've changed the crankset for one with longer crank arms, which has dropped the saddle height a bit.


----------



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

MontyVeda said:


> 3 1/4" on mine... but it is an MTB
> 
> is the guy you mention trying to achieve a horizontal body position, for aerodynamics maybe??


Cant answer that as I only spoke for a minute but it would have been more than horizontal


----------



## si_c (1 Jul 2019)

I'm a tad over 6'5" and the saddle to bar drop depends on the bike, but it's around 5" lower - so about 10" to the bottom of the drops. I actually spend a lot of time on the drops compared to the hoods.


----------



## ColinJ (1 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I have my bars as high as possible as after 25/35 miles my neck starts to sieze up (its age).
> On Saturday my ride took me to Arley Hall where I got talking to a guy that was maybe 6' 2"......maybe more.
> He was on a Giant TCR and his saddle must have been 10" higher than his bars. I had to comment on it and his answer was "It was one inch less till my bike fit yesterday and they raised it".
> I am no expert but it just looked wrong.
> My thought was, surely he needs a bigger frame.


Are you sure that it didn't just look that way because of a sloping top tube?

Here are two of my bikes, which have the same riding position. (The singlespeed now has some of the spacers moved to above the stem so the bars are 1.5 cms lower.)


----------



## si_c (1 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Are you sure that it didn't just look that way because of a sloping top tube?
> 
> Here are two of my bikes, which have the same riding position. (The singlespeed now has some of the spacers moved to above the stem so the bars are 1.5 cms lower.)
> 
> ...


Also a possibility - for reference mine looks like the below - although the aerobars have been removed now.

Edit to add: that's a 400mm seatpost with about 350mm showing.


----------



## Venod (1 Jul 2019)

I have just measured mine, the top of bars to top saddle, bars are about 60mm lower.


----------



## Levo-Lon (1 Jul 2019)

600mm seat post anyone

Mine are all set up for pedal performance, but at 5'8 they tend to be about level.

Must be a height thing as the 6+ footers need the seat height, frames dont seem to grow in proportion.

Bit like buying clothes, why does a size 42 jacket maker assume its for 6 foot tall people and a 32 waist gets 33 leg??


----------



## Profpointy (1 Jul 2019)

saddle about an inch higher, maybe a bit more.


----------



## raleighnut (1 Jul 2019)

si_c said:


> Also a possibility - for reference mine looks like the below - although the aerobars have been removed now.
> 
> Edit to add: that's a 400mm seatpost with about 350mm showing.
> 
> View attachment 473455


Pah only a 400mm seatpost,







I had a 600mm one made for this bike, that's as low as it will go.


----------



## raleighnut (1 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> 600mm seat post anyone
> 
> Mine are all set up for pedal performance, but at 5'8 they tend to be about level.
> 
> ...


Yep, see post #16


----------



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Are you sure that it didn't just look that way because of a sloping top tube?
> 
> Here are two of my bikes, which have the same riding position. (The singlespeed now has some of the spacers moved to above the stem so the bars are 1.5 cms lower.)
> 
> ...


No, although I take your point......I have almost the same bike, mine is Defy his was TCR. My mate who was with me felt the same......he is 5'10" and also rides Giant.


----------



## ukbabz (1 Jul 2019)

11cm (4.3inc) according to last bike fit if i'm reading the retul report properly. Will have a measure when i go out tonight, but seems about right on my TCR.


----------



## dave r (1 Jul 2019)

Bars a couple of inches below the saddle, I have the bars a little higher now than I used too, I raised them a touch last year to ease my back.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Jul 2019)

It’s where the fancy pants computer bike fitting thing said it should be. And, to be fair, it’s spot on.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I have my bars as high as possible as after 25/35 miles my neck starts to sieze up (its age).
> On Saturday my ride took me to Arley Hall where I got talking to a guy that was maybe 6' 2"......maybe more.
> He was on a Giant TCR and his saddle must have been 10" higher than his bars. I had to comment on it and his answer was "It was one inch less till my bike fit yesterday and they raised it".
> I am no expert but it just looked wrong.
> My thought was, surely he needs a bigger frame.


Why did you have to comment on it? What did you know over and above what he did about his own bike? I'm 6ft3 and ride a 54CM top tube frame, please use these two pieces of info to explain how I would need a bigger frame and the logic leading to the conclusion.

Thanks


----------



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Why did you have to comment on it? What did you know over and above what he did about his own bike? I'm 6ft3 and ride a 54CM top tube frame, please use these two pieces of info to explain how I would need a bigger frame and the logic leading to the conclusion.
> 
> Thanks


Why do I have to explain anything to you?
I was interested and we enjoyed a pleasant conversation about Giant bike and bike fits in general.
I hope that is acceptable to you.


----------



## Dogtrousers (1 Jul 2019)

My stem is well slammed. It's so low the drop of my bars scrape the ground.

Actually I'm not sure. I think it's a smidge below the saddle or about level.


----------



## bladderhead (1 Jul 2019)

It is threads like this that remind me why I got a recumbent.


----------



## cyberknight (1 Jul 2019)

5cm drop to bar's from saddle, I have never had a bike fit and TBH all my bikes are at the upper end of the right size.5 foot 7inches


----------



## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2019)

My bars are a number of inches above my seat. It's a recumbent......


----------



## Rusty Nails (1 Jul 2019)

si_c said:


> Also a possibility - for reference mine looks like the below - although the aerobars have been removed now.
> 
> Edit to add: that's a 400mm seatpost with about 350mm showing.
> 
> View attachment 473455



Does a seatpost that long with just 50mm in the tube cause potential stress problems at the top of the tube?


----------



## Dave7 (1 Jul 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a seatpost that long with just 50mm in the tube cause potential stress problems at the top of the tube?


I asked myself that question. I am 5'6" and my Giant hardtail is a small. The seatpost has a line that tells me its at its max


----------



## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2019)

Bars lower than saddle I generally keep it to an absolute max of 2 inches. I ride straight bars with bar ends and usually cruise on the bar ends which are of course back up higher than the bars towards the saddle.

I do sometimes see flat barred bikes with bars way way below the seat - usually in urban supposedly trendyville. Looks plain wrong and uncomfortable bordering on dangerous to me - their bike, their body. Perhaps someone told them they had a nice arse at at impressionable age and they feel an urge to display it.


----------



## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2019)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Why did you have to comment on it? What did you know over and above what he did about his own bike? I'm 6ft3 and ride a 54CM top tube frame, please use these two pieces of info to explain how I would need a bigger frame and the logic leading to the conclusion.
> 
> Thanks


I think you need a nice peaceful ride.


----------



## Rusty Nails (1 Jul 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> It’s where the fancy pants computer bike fitting thing said it should be. And, to be fair, it’s spot on.



Does a bike fit take into account problems the rider might have with their back/neck, or does it just go on their body dimensions?

At 72 and 5'8" I have problems with my neck due to fused vertebrae. Would a bike fitting treat me the same as a fit 5'8" 30 year old of the same body shape?


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Jul 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a bike fit take into account problems the rider might have with their back/neck, or does it just go on their body dimensions?
> 
> At 72 and 5'8" I have problems with my neck due to fused vertebrae. Would a bike fitting treat me the same as a fit 5'8" 30 year old of the same body shape?


The fancy one I had used ‘golf balls’ and CGI, so it analyses your full body dynamics.


----------



## mickle (1 Jul 2019)

I win.







Or do I lose? I'm not sure.


----------



## vickster (1 Jul 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a bike fit take into account problems the rider might have with their back/neck, or does it just go on their body dimensions?
> 
> At 72 and 5'8" I have problems with my neck due to fused vertebrae. Would a bike fitting treat me the same as a fit 5'8" 30 year old of the same body shape?


Yes it should to the first Q unless the fitter is clueless and has no understanding of anatomy and biomechanics
No to the second Q, unless the fitter is clueless and has no understanding of anatomy and biomechanics


----------



## NorthernDave (1 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I have my bars as high as possible as after 25/35 miles my neck starts to sieze up (its age).
> On Saturday my ride took me to Arley Hall where I got talking to a guy that was maybe 6' 2"......maybe more.
> He was on a Giant TCR and his saddle must have been 10" higher than his bars. I had to comment on it and his answer was "It was one inch less till my bike fit yesterday and they raised it".
> I am no expert but it just looked wrong.
> My thought was, surely he needs a bigger frame.



When I bought my Giant, I tried an "M" and it was a perfect fit.
Despite this the salesperson then asked if I "liked a lot of seat post showing like the pros" because then I'd need an "S".


----------



## Vantage (1 Jul 2019)

My bar is about an inch or 2 below the saddle. But I'm still tinkering with the position...over a year after getting it


----------



## Milzy (1 Jul 2019)

It’s partly the aggressive geometry of the TCR & he will be flexible so fine in an aggressive position with his head out of the wind. Which is how you ride the Giant TCR really, it’s not a sit up & beg shopping bike.


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2019)

Vantage said:


> My bar is about an inch or 2 below the saddle. But I'm still tinkering with the position...over a year after getting it


The best approach in most cases I think. Just feel the bike, make small adjustments. By this process, pretty much all my bikes ended up the same. That surely can't be coincidence? I did have a bike fit (refunded against the purchase of the bike) and it never felt right. Now shifted that bike to the same as my others and all is well. For my flat bar style of riding, 1 to 2 inches between saddle and bars is right I think, and for most other folk. And saddle more or less level.


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> When I bought my Giant, I tried an "M" and it was a perfect fit.
> Despite this the salesperson then asked if I "liked a lot of seat post showing like the pros" because then I'd need an "S".


Did he say why the pros supposedly favour lots of seatpost?


----------



## Dave7 (2 Jul 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> When I bought my Giant, I tried an "M" and it was a perfect fit.
> Despite this the salesperson then asked if I "liked a lot of seat post showing like the pros" because then I'd need an "S".


Both ny bikes are S. The seat post on the hardtail is quite extended but I have one of those flexible stem thingies to lift the bar that bit extra.


----------



## si_c (2 Jul 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a seatpost that long with just 50mm in the tube cause potential stress problems at the top of the tube?


Done about 25k km on that bike, seems fine so far. The seat post is in further than the limit.


----------



## Cycleops (2 Jul 2019)

mickle said:


> I win.
> 
> View attachment 473495
> 
> ...








I think Jezza is running you a pretty close second with that stack and riser.


----------



## NorthernDave (2 Jul 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Did he say why the pros supposedly favour lots of seatpost?



I didn't ask.


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2019)

Ok, will assume it's to help stacking the tent and dry bags.


----------



## Beebo (2 Jul 2019)

Textima track bike always looks very uncomfortable


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2019)

Beebo said:


> View attachment 473676
> 
> 
> Textima track bike always looks very uncomfortable


I believe the rider uses their nose as a brake.


----------



## Rusty Nails (2 Jul 2019)

Beebo said:


> View attachment 473676
> 
> 
> Textima track bike always looks very uncomfortable




You could ride that up a very steep hill and the saddle and stem would be level.


----------



## Beebo (3 Jul 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> You could ride that up a very steep hill and the saddle and stem would be level.


You would have to change the chain ring before attempting a very steep hill. 
I’d be impressed if I could get the thing to move on the flat let alone an incline.


----------



## ColinJ (3 Jul 2019)

si_c said:


> I'm a tad over 6'5" and the saddle to bar drop depends on the bike, but it's around 5" lower - so about 10" to the bottom of the drops. I actually spend a lot of time on the drops compared to the hoods.


I'm '_only_' 1.86 m (6'1") tall. I have 10 cm (4") from saddle to top of bars, and 23 cm (9") to drops so that sounds a similar setup, with a smidge off for my more diminutive proportions! 

I was fairly comfortable on the drops until I put some weight on over the winter. I now have a small roll of fat in the way when I bend forwards. It wouldn't be a big deal with bibshorts, but the waistband and belt on my Endura Humvees (<--- see avatar picture) tend to make their presence uncomfortably obvious.


----------



## si_c (3 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I'm '_only_' 1.86 m (6'1") tall. I have 10 cm (4") from saddle to top of bars, and 23 cm (9") to drops so that sounds a similar setup, with a smidge off for my more diminutive proportions!
> 
> I was fairly comfortable on the drops until I put some weight on over the winter. I now have a small roll of fat in the way when I bend forwards. It wouldn't be a big deal with bibshorts, but the waistband and belt on my Endura Humvees (<--- see avatar picture) tend to make their presence uncomfortably obvious.


Yup, most of my riding at the moment is done in dress trousers and a shirt - I've put on a bit since January, and it's certainly noticeable on the drops


----------



## booze and cake (3 Jul 2019)

Mine varies depending on the bike. I'm 185cm tall and ride bikes in the 56cm to 61cm range but I tend to prefer small frames than riding big garden gates. My 56cm My Brian Rourke is my most 'aggressive' with seat to bar drop of about 5-6 inches to top of bars and about 11-12 inches to the drops. I'm closer to 50 than 40 in age and have done hilly centuries on this bike, so I'm still flexible enough for now.




My made to measure bike is set up with a low stem and a drop of about 3 inches to the tops of bars and about 8 inches to the drops, and my other 5 road bikes have measurements inbetween those two bikes, but I guess that reflects my riding style, which is speed focused when riding, allowing more time for rehydrating afterwards


----------



## netman (3 Jul 2019)

I can't have my saddle too high, because then I can't reach the gear change...


----------



## rivers (3 Jul 2019)

I've got about 3-4 inches of difference


----------



## SpokeyDokey (3 Jul 2019)

When this is stood upright the saddle and bars are level - nice and comfy for my older back!

View attachment 467444


----------



## Grant Fondo (3 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I have my bars as high as possible as after 25/35 miles my neck starts to sieze up (its age).
> On Saturday my ride took me to Arley Hall where I got talking to a guy that was maybe 6' 2"......maybe more.
> He was on a Giant TCR and his saddle must have been 10" higher than his bars. I had to comment on it and his answer was "It was one inch less till my bike fit yesterday and they raised it".
> I am no expert but it just looked wrong.
> My thought was, surely he needs a bigger frame.


Sorry to divert from the main point, but one of Cheshire's finest houses


----------



## Sharky (3 Jul 2019)

Approx 5 1/2 ins. Saddle higher than top of bars.

Cranks are short (150mm) allowing a higher saddle.


----------



## freiston (4 Jul 2019)

The tops of my bars are about the same height as my saddle but I don't use compact bars - so the drop is a proper drop (I've also got room for the hands behind the hoods):


----------



## Jenkins (4 Jul 2019)

With mine it varies due to the differing sizes of the head tubes over the bikes. 

I've just done some comparisons and on the six road & flat bar bikes the centre of the crank to top of the saddle is fairly consistant at around 79cm, however the measurement from the fork crown to the top of the steerer goes from 24cm up to 29cm (there's a 5mm spacer above the stem, then the top cap on all of them).

Measured vertically from the floor they range from 105cm to 107cm to the top of the sadddle and 93cm to 103cm to the bars.


----------



## si_c (5 Jul 2019)

Jenkins said:


> With mine it varies due to the differing sizes of the head tubes over the bikes.
> 
> I've just done some comparisons and on the six road & flat bar bikes the centre of the crank to top of the saddle is fairly consistant at around 79cm, however the measurement from the fork crown to the top of the steerer goes from 24cm up to 29cm (there's a 5mm spacer above the stem, then the top cap on all of them).
> 
> Measured vertically from the floor they range from 105cm to 107cm to the top of the sadddle and 93cm to 103cm to the bars.


 What's the bottom bracket height?


----------



## marzjennings (5 Jul 2019)

Depends on the bike: Mountain bike saddle is 1 inch higher than the bars, road bike saddle about 8 inches higher, cruiser saddle is about 2 feet lower than the bars.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (5 Jul 2019)

3 speed roadster - bars level with saddle
Raleigh Hybrids - bars also level
MTB's - bars about one inch lower than saddle.
Dawes drop bar - top of bars one inch lower.

I like to ride in comfort and want to be able to look around easily both for safety reasons and to view the scenery. I have no intention of crippling myself by riding around with my arse stuck up in the air just to "look pro". For a non-racing cyclist aerodynamics are a complete irrelevance.


----------



## Lee_M (5 Jul 2019)

quite a bit lower, but that actually helps my dodgy neck more than being upright.


----------



## Drago (5 Jul 2019)

It varies on my fleet between the different types of bike.


----------



## booze and cake (5 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> 3 speed roadster - bars level with saddle
> Raleigh Hybrids - bars also level
> MTB's - bars about one inch lower than saddle.
> Dawes drop bar - top of bars one inch lower.
> ...



Aerodynamics may mean nothing to you dawdling around 5 mile rides in your double denim, but you consistently fail to comprehend that there are literally millions of cyclists out there that cycle differently to you.

I am not pro nor have ever raced, but I do long rides, and I Iike going fast, so aerodynamics do matter to me. Not all the time, but to say it is a complete irrelevance is just nonsense.

Have you never ridden into a headwind? I have. The hardest ride I ever did was a 120 mile over the Brecon Beacons into a 20mph headwind all the way. Being more aero mattered then I can assure you. I've done rides over 200 miles in a day that were easier than that. If you are just going to the shop to get some milk this doesn't matter, but on long rides it can make a significant difference. Taking less time on rides leaves more time to do other stuff, I see this as a bonus. So aerodynamics is not an irrelevance, it is just irrelevant to YOU.

This is just like your daft sweeping generalisations that nobody need spend more than 20 quid on a gas pipe tank of a bike. Yes I'm sure they are fine for what you use them for, and no doubt that bike could do long rides, but for riders that may want to do long rides in good time, other better bikes are available


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

Not measured my 3 Ribbles
But, my 'blue' is about an inch lower, at the bars, than the CGR, even with all 3 spacers in place!
(CGR has two)


Years ago, I ran the 'bars this low
Odd bar-ends, but they were an experiment (as I used it a fair bit on the road too, with slicks)


Tong Woods
(south-eastern outskirts of Bradford)
Yorkshire Mountain Bike Club event
1993 (the file states)







I later, foolishly, decided to have it revamped
Possibly 1995?
I settled on X-Lite bar ends & Pace 130 (?) 'bars a while before


----------



## rugby bloke (5 Jul 2019)

Not the clearest due to the angle of the bike and the clutter on my top tube, but the seat is a few inches higher than the bars. The gap was less until I had my bike fit when one of the key adjustment was to raise my seat an inch or so. It certainly fixed the knee pain problem and is just as comfortable on the drops as before.


----------



## Threevok (5 Jul 2019)

The seat appears to be slightly higher than the bars, although the rise on the bars - makes the grips about the same height

It looks like a lot of seat post sticking is out, but that's mainly down to the sloping top tube, plus that double clamp helps with this illusion.

The seat post is actually uncut at 350mm, with nearly half of it still inside the frame


----------



## Blue Hills (5 Jul 2019)

I trust you wear your golden earings when riding that.


----------



## Threevok (5 Jul 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> I trust you wear your golden earings when riding that.



Only one, which may explain the wear on the left side of the tyres.


----------



## Jenkins (5 Jul 2019)

Jenkins said:


> With mine it varies due to the differing sizes of the head tubes over the bikes.
> 
> I've just done some comparisons and on the six road & flat bar bikes the centre of the crank to top of the saddle is fairly consistant at around 79cm, however the measurement from the fork crown to the top of the steerer goes from 24cm up to 29cm (there's a 5mm spacer above the stem, then the top cap on all of them).
> 
> Measured vertically from the floor they range from 105cm to 107cm to the top of the sadddle and 93cm to 103cm to the bars.





si_c said:


> What's the bottom bracket height?


Remarkably consistant - 5 bikes are 28cm from the ground to the centre of the crank, the other is 30cm. The worst saddle to bar drop is on the Planet X pro-Carbon simply down to the short 165mm headtube on the large sized bike where all the others are 175mm or 185mm on the Spa


----------



## byegad (6 Jul 2019)

My bars are 8" above the seat, and the bottom bracket is 4" above the seat. 

No prizes, but what do I ride?


----------



## vickster (6 Jul 2019)

byegad said:


> My bars are 8" above the seat, and the bottom bracket is 4" above the seat.
> 
> No prizes, but what do I ride?


A 2008 Kettwiesel AL 27 or 2011 Catrike Trail?


----------



## Shearwater Missile (7 Jul 2019)

Both bikes less than an inch (2cm, 1.5cm) If I go any lower I get neck pain after about 10-15 miles,most of my rides are 20-25 miles anyway. I don`t have a flexible back, never have. It may be due to all the miles of running I have done but I do have an upright posture (mostly). We are all different regardless of age. I read the other day that Dame Judy Dench does`nt watch herself in films as in her mind she is still a young 39 year old. By the same notion, when I look at the pro riders on their bikes I feel like them and envy them, the reality is different. Perhaps I could ride with a big drop, but after a few miles the novelty would wear off as the pain in my neck increased. I think it is fair so say that ride as low ( for wind resistance) as possible with over straining. Just enjoy the ride. The pros get paid and have rub downs, we don`t.


----------

