# What's a Realistic Maximum Cadence?



## simon.r (22 May 2012)

I'm slowly learning how to ride my fixed gear bike

One of the issues I'm having is spinning my legs fast enough. This evening I briefly hit 29 mph which works out at a cadence of 127 (44 x 15 gearing, 700 x 23 tyres). At anything over 25mph (cadence of 109) I feel uncomfortable - almost out of control.

What's a realistic, sustainable (for a minute or two on a downhill) maximum cadence?
Are there any specific techniques to improve cadence? Or is just a case of riding more?!


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## SportMonkey (22 May 2012)

Keep at it, it took me a couple of months to maintain 100 on the flat, and I can now push it up to about 140/150, it's easier to build up cadence uphill and just get yourself in to an aero position downhill. I'm on 44:17 though, 25mm.


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## stevevw (23 May 2012)

I found that I could get to 175 cadence 42mph on the down hill sprint at the end of our club runs. cant say it is easy or comfortable but is controlable as long as you keep pushing and pushing hard, as soon as you let off or relax you will be bumping up and down on the saddle and at that sort of speed it is very scarey. I am certain that my club mates let me win the sprint just so they can laugh at my cartoon legs wizzing round.


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## steve52 (23 May 2012)

i bounce at 125,130 then it evens out till 168 ish can only maitain that for a min or two, my garmin did give 230 as a max when i was being silly but i do question it as 18 is the max i have ever done befor


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## Boris Bajic (23 May 2012)

I think you just build up to a good, comfortable cadence and you'll find yours in your own time.

I'm middle-aged and not slim. There's no chance I'd be mistaken for Joop Zoetemelk.

I can cruise all day at 95, bobble along lanes at 110 with ease, put in pushes at 125-ish and have (on occasion) descended at 165+.

Unlike stevevw (above), I find that these higher (for me) cadences are possible only if I am NOT pushing. I just have to spin my legs around and let the hill take them. I also keep my ankles pretty rigid. If I try to push at anything over 140rpm, I find that the whole plot becomes unstable.


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## smutchin (23 May 2012)

I've been riding fixed for a couple of years and when I started, I was much like you - anything much above 120rpm felt nerve-janglingly fast.

Now... well, there's a short, steep descent on my regular morning commute where I regularly hit 185-190rpm, but I don't think I'd be able to sustain that for very long. There's also a much longer, gentler descent that I tend to take at around 150rpm, which I can sustain comfortably.

Afaict, you just develop your souplesse as you ride fixed more. I've never done any specific training for it.

d.


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## simon.r (24 May 2012)

stevevw said:


> ... but is controlable as long as you keep pushing and pushing hard, as soon as you let off or relax you will be bumping up and down on the saddle...


 


Boris Bajic said:


> Unlike stevevw (above), I find that these higher (for me) cadences are possible only if I am NOT pushing. I just have to spin my legs around and let the hill take them. I also keep my ankles pretty rigid. If I try to push at anything over 140rpm, I find that the whole plot becomes unstable.


 
Interesting. Without consciously thinking about it I've been NOT pushing. I tried pushing today and felt a lot more stable and in control. I also got to a very slightly higher cadence of 131.

I'll keep experimenting and see how it goes.

Fair play to those of you hitting 150+


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## smutchin (24 May 2012)

Another interesting side effect I've found from riding fixed is that now when I ride a bike with gears, I'm much less inclined to coast. I also used to be a masher but now I'm a spinner - my "cruising" cadence on gears is around 100rpm these days. 

Of course, what gear you ride will have a bearing on this - for me, it's about 65" for general use. You have to get used to spinning when you ride a gear that short. Or get through brake blocks very quickly on descents.

d.


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## Ian H (24 May 2012)

Practice pedalling round the stroke, that is consciously moving your feet in circles rather than just pressing down on the pedals. On 43x18 I can keep up with geared cyclists on most descents. I don't find the need to push hard (a bit self-defeating, that), but retaining muscle control is important.


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## stevevw (25 May 2012)

Ian H said:


> I don't find the need to push hard (a bit self-defeating, that).


My example was for the down hill sprint at the end of the Sunday club run which is the only time that I would reach a cadence that high and pushing hard is needed to beat those geared boys 
Normally up to 130ish I would still be pedalling rather than relaxing my legs. Suppose it is the same as every thing we all find our own way of doing things.


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## Dave Davenport (25 May 2012)

I find getting low on the drops helps stop the bouncing about at high cadence.


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

Hi guys
Don't wish to be rude but finding the conversation a little far fetched. I have just got home having hit the fastest average speed so far for me. I run a 42/13 and my max average over 20 miles WAS 25.6 mph and I am extremely proud of myself as tonight I managed 26.2 mph average over 20 miles.F@*KING GET IN THERE!!!!! My top speed was 31.2 mph and probably downhill . Anyhow, this makes my cadence 100.9 RPM. (Taken from http://www.lfgss.com/thread17162.html) If I ride a 27" wheel on 42/13 then 27 x (42/13) = 87.23 gear inch, which according to the website 336 divided by my gear inch and multiplied by my mph = my cadence. Hence, 336 / 87.23 x 26.2 = 100.9. So if all these websites are true then most of you are not human.

Now I have only been riding for 3 months and have only had my fixed gear for a month and I know I will get better in time, BUT according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(cycling) 90 RPM is about right for professionals. Mr Armstrong does 110 RPM and PROFESSIONAL SPRINTERS do around 170 RPM for very short periods. ( http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=433 ) makes for a very interesting read on cadence actually.

You are all talking about cadences of 125/140ish for most of your riding, not including downhills which makes Mr Armstrong a complete novice. I have seen other websites where people get even more unrealistic I.E. http://www.glasgowfixedgear.com/discussion/922/working-out-cadencespeedgear-inches/p1 where one person says 207 is his cadence. ???????????????WTF

The other night I flipped my wheel over to the freewheel side 16 T and could only average 20.9 and max at 25.2 mph which tells me that for me, and I am not unique, I get a much faster speed from a higher GI. I am sorry to say that logic also says that there are some tall tales out there. At say 150 rpm your "little legs" will be rotating at 2.5 revs a second. Highly unlikely. Pro's hit around 170 for VERY short sprints which is 2.8, not much difference. While poor old slow boy Lance Armstrong who is QUOTE "known for his technique of keeping up high cadences of around 110 rpm" (as per Wikipedia website) only manages 1.8 revs a second.

I will be watching the Olympics and looking for you all to win gold medals.


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5a3C2MC87g


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BcHekNAfOo


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> I am not unique



Hey! You're special - and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. 

d.


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

smutchin said:


> Hey! You're special - and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
> 
> d.


 
Ah what an intellectual retort. NOT.

Your being unfair and very SPECIAL yourself. I have put proof that you don't do this and will put some more reasons below just for those people who still think they are superman.

Point one I have not said I am better than anyone else (my cadence 100.9), you lot HAVE said that you are better than anyone else (Lance 110 you guys 185-190).

Point two, the video you have put on here (1st one I watched then laughed and got bored) the guy was not on the road. So no wind resistance, no climbing incline/decent over any part of his ride, less tyre resistance as on a roller of alloy etc etc. (I would expect my granny to be able to have a high cadence given one of those machines.) Even Mr Merx himself in video 2 only spins real fast for a few seconds and again he is on a machine. The videos provide no proof either as on neither one does it show rpm just someone's little legs going round fast. Mine would look fast too and I can only manage 100.9 remember.

Point 3 The Guiness Book of Records records Chris Boardman as having achieved a world record of 52.270 km ph =32 to 33 mph. The people on here are hitting (Simon R) 29 mph for example, which he is doing on the road. You say about your commute to work so are doing it on a road as well. Therefore, if he/you had Chris Boardman's helmet, a velodrome, a 7-10 thousand pound bike etc etc then you two should be faster than the SSC II, Super Sonic Car.

And you insult me and say I am special?????????????????????????????????????????????


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

oh and BTW if you want to grab a calculator (not picking on Simon R it is just that he has put speed, crank teeth and gear teeth etc etc in his msg so I can work out his cadence from this info) and use the calculator to test his rpm and his calc's are wrong. Assuming he has a 27" wheel like the rest of us a (44/15) = 106.1 rpm NOT 109. Try it for yourself.

His next post says that he is now able to reach 131 rpm. From this someone who knows math can work out that he is doing 31 mph ON THE ROAD ????????? Chris Boardman better get out of the way I tell you. He can only hold a word title at 32-33 mph. Mr SLOW eh?

In Fairness to Simon R, his claims are nowhere near as outlandish as yours and certainly not as far fetched as the guy I referred to in my other post with a cadence of 207. His little legs are going round at 3.45 times a second.


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

I admit I was almost taken in by your first post but then I realised it was an elaborate troll, so decided not to take it seriously.

Thing is, you gave yourself away a bit too easily - you've been cycling just three months and you're already capable of the kind of pace you'd expect from an experienced club racer? Hmmm. It's not the rest of us who aren't human...

Still, it was quite a funny attempt at trolling, I'll grant you. Good work.

d.


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

For the record...

I run 700x32C tyres, 36t chainring, 15t sprocket. That's about a 65" gear by my reckoning. My average speed on my commute this morning was 27.8km/h, my max speed was 48.5km/h.

The highest speed I've reached on that setup (on the aforementioned descent - but I didn't go that way this morning) was about 60km/h. I make that somewhere in the range 185-190rpm but please feel free to check my maths.

As I said above, I wouldn't be able to keep up that speed for more than a few seconds, but I can well believe others are capable of higher cadences.

d.


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN7p7mOXI_g


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## Boris Bajic (28 May 2012)

Mr Funk My Fixie,

I am one of those who posted pedal speeds you may have found dubious, but I've been riding today and can assure you they are accurate.

I pootle at 95 rpm, do the odd extended stretch at 110rpm and can descend at 165rpm, but not for long.

I am middle-aged, slightly overweight and by no means in good shape.

My (homebuilt) steel, low-tech fixie uses a 50-tooth chainring, 19-tooth sprocket and 700c x 20 tyres at 110psi.

That gives me approximately 69 gear inches (maybe a little less).

The 165rpm is achieved while descending big hills in Herefordshire, Gloucestershire and Worcestershire at around 35mph.

These are 45mph hills for me on a geared bike, probably 50+ for a good rider.

The higher-RPM figures are not fictional and are not the stuff of Olympian legend. Perfectly ordinary (and slightly tubby) riders can do this with ease. The gearing you mention is quite high for a fixed-gear bike. Many of us use much lower gearing, which allows us to generate much higher RPM at lower speeds.

There seems to be a degree of pique in your post, but the figures are good. By the way, if after a few months on a bicycle you are getting 25+mph averages over 10 or 20 miles on fixed-gear, I take my hat off to you. Many people work for many years to get those sort of figures.


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## smutchin (28 May 2012)

Boris, you are much more diplomatic than me. 

d.


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## Boris Bajic (28 May 2012)

smutchin said:


> Boris, you are much more diplomatic than me.
> 
> d.


 
Me?

Diplomatic??

Far Cough!!


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> Hi guys
> Don't wish to be rude but finding the conversation a little far fetched. I have just got home having hit the fastest average speed so far for me. I run a 42/13 and my max average over 20 miles WAS 25.6 mph and I am extremely proud of myself as tonight I managed 26.2 mph average over 20 miles.F@*KING GET IN THERE!!!!! My top speed was 31.2 mph and probably downhill . Anyhow, this makes my cadence 100.9 RPM. (Taken from http://www.lfgss.com/thread17162.html) If I ride a 27" wheel on 42/13 then 27 x (42/13) = 87.23 gear inch, which according to the website 336 divided by my gear inch and multiplied by my mph = my cadence. Hence, 336 / 87.23 x 26.2 = 100.9. So if all these websites are true then most of you are not human.
> 
> Now I have only been riding for 3 months and have only had my fixed gear for a month and I know I will get better in time, BUT according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(cycling) 90 RPM is about right for professionals. Mr Armstrong does 110 RPM and PROFESSIONAL SPRINTERS do around 170 RPM for very short periods. ( http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=433 ) makes for a very interesting read on cadence actually.
> ...


 
87" is a fairly hefty gear and would normally be the reserve of fixed time trialists. Looking at your average speeds you ought to easly go under the hour for a 25 which is a cracking result for a new'ish rider even on a full on TT rig.
What sort of bike set up are you using?

As for other peoples claims for RPM, I read them as max not average. I run a 73" gear and average around 80 - 90 rpm and top out on downhills at about 160, although I've managed 200 on rollers.


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## Farky (28 May 2012)

173rpm for me on this ride


View: http://youtu.be/PPHVfxzK9oE?t=6s


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## PpPete (28 May 2012)

53 going on 54, only been riding fixed (occasionally) for a couple of years. Find anything above 130 distinctly uncomfortable, although I can push to about 165 on the spinning bike in the gym.


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## palinurus (28 May 2012)

I can't go any quicker than 150 rpm, I've just got slow legs.

I thought riding fixed might help with spinning but I find I like to lope along at 60 rpm all the time, just because it feels nice.

I'm late for work most days.


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## mangid (28 May 2012)

palinurus said:


> I'm late for work most days.


 
+1

Enjoy the ride !


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

smutchin said:


> I admit I was almost taken in by your first post but then I realised it was an elaborate troll, so decided not to take it seriously.
> 
> Thing is, you gave yourself away a bit too easily - you've been cycling just three months and you're already capable of the kind of pace you'd expect from an experienced club racer? Hmmm. It's not the rest of us who aren't human...
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, well I used to cycle for a team. Sorry for omitting that part. Hence, getting back into it was easier for me.


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## totallyfixed (28 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> Yeah well I used to cycle for a team so getting back into it was easier for me.


What team was that then? We have been on the racing scene for many years now so would be interested in knowing. I will also tell you what is realistic, I have hit 200rpm going downhill in 20 secs of insanity, I frequently go over 180 rpm but not for long. What is not realistic is averaging 26.2 mph over 20 miles on a non TT rig, equivalent to two sub 23 min tens back to back. I have no idea who you are but you quote big names and what they ride like yet seem to have no understanding of averages / max cadences etc. I am REALLY intrigued to know the team you were in. I think we all are.


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

smutchin said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN7p7mOXI_g



like the vid, but what did it represent? Still no scientific proof of anyone's cadence.


smutchin said:


> For the record...
> 
> I run 700x32C tyres, 36t chainring, 15t sprocket. That's about a 65" gear by my reckoning. My average speed on my commute this morning was 27.8km/h, my max speed was 48.5km/h.
> 
> ...


 

Now we are on the same page. 27.8 kph is 17.2 mph which is a reasonable average speed and a top speed 30.1 mph. These are fair numbers and puts your cadence at average 90 ish. That is about what the websites say is ..."normal" (sorry to use such a word but feels right). Nothing wrong with that OR that you have hit 38 ish mph (60 km). And maybe like me, (as I said in my first post when I did 31.2 twas probably downhill) maybe you also did it downhill. A lot of people on this site hit crazy speeds like 50.9 mph going downhill ( and must be bl@@dy crazy for it).

The thing I had concern over was that, if you read the posts, people SEEM to be doing all these crazy rpm's which put them in the league of professionals. I didn't PICK on you, it was just that you replied to me first. I felt that you were a little rude to call someone SPECIAL. I love coming on here and reading what more advanced people can tell me about cycling, how to do it, what gear is best etc etc but how can I set myself a goal if people are bounding around false info'. The original question..... which is why I looked, to try and learn something from people with experience, was 'What is a realistic maximum cadence?' If people put 90ish like you have done to work today then a novice like me can then say, "ok I am on track to where I want to be." When people write anything up to 207 then what can I learn? Only that people make it up.


Anyway, no hard feelings. Nice to chat to you and I can honestly say I take my hat off to you for going at that speed on a fixed gear. I personally wobble too much over 30 ish mph and tend to go through the brake blocks as you said yourself hehehehehe


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Mr Funk My Fixie,
> 
> I am one of those who posted pedal speeds you may have found dubious, but I've been riding today and can assure you they are accurate.
> 
> ...


 

Thankyou but as I said to smutchin I used to ride with a team and do town centre cycling so while it sounded great, it's not as good as it sounds. I stopped riding for a few years but it is easier for a person who has done it before to get back into it. I cannot understand though, like I said in my first post, how you can all go faster on an easier gear inch when I find it easier on a harder gear inch. I think it is easier because I only have to push against the resistance. In fact there is a post called "Chain Ring Size" in which the OP has the same point. He can go faster on a harder gear inch than he was used to riding. 

It seems you are doing something different. You are all making your legs go round faster. Maybe this is what I need to be doing but like I said I can only do around 21 mph on a 42/16.


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## funk my fixie (28 May 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> What team was that then? We have been on the racing scene for many years now so would be interested in knowing. I will also tell you what is realistic, I have hit 200rpm going downhill in 20 secs of insanity, I frequently go over 180 rpm but not for long. What is not realistic is averaging 26.2 mph over 20 miles on a non TT rig, equivalent to two sub 23 min tens back to back. I have no idea who you are but you quote big names and what they ride like yet seem to have no understanding of averages / max cadences etc. I am REALLY intrigued to know the team you were in. I think we all are.


 
Southend and County Wheelers, when I was 14-15. Did town centre cycling. That was some 24 years ago now


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## gaz (29 May 2012)

I didn't realise it was only professionals that could do high RPM's.
I'll take what you have said on board and slow my cadence down.


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## dandare (29 May 2012)

This is a funny thread this is.


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## Farky (29 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> Southend and County Wheelers, when I was 14-15. Did town centre cycling. That was some 24 years ago now


 I'm sorry but there's only one person's figures that don't add up for me and guess who's they are...


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## Boris Bajic (29 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> It seems you are doing something different. You are all making your legs go round faster. Maybe this is what I need to be doing but like I said I can only do around 21 mph on a 42/16.


 
The only thing some of us are doing differently is running smaller gears, which means we have to pedal faster at a given speed.

Many people do not use fixed-gear bicycles as an end to achieving some TT sweet spot, PB or top speed. It may in some cases be a means towards that end, but very many fixed riders have little idea of their 10-mile time on such a bike.

For many of us, it's either an amusing way to get about or a training tool to improve technique. It may be both. In many cases, gearing is not as it is by design; a lot of us just threw our fixed bikes together out of bits that were lying around. Most seem to run between 65 and 71 gear inches, but there is no right or wrong answer here.

As a former team rider who has leapt back into the saddle and put up some pretty good times pretty quickly, you'll be aware of the perceived benefits of spinning. The term has been used since the dawn of time and will have been common when you were on a team. You'll probably remember team-mates who kept a fixed-gear bike (often called a track bike in those times) for winter training. They would have run the sort of gearing mentioned on this thread and they would have spun at 140+, topping out much higher on descents. 

If I were you, I'd get out and enjoy your return to cycling rather than worrying about what others are doing. All of the pedal speeds and durations posted in this thread seem perfectly credible to me. Some were quite impressive, but all were credible. I imagine they'd also seem so to anyone who had some experience of competitive cycling.

This section of CycleChat is posted on by a friendly, honest and supportive bunch. Some of your earlier comments were slightly on the strident and accusatory side, so any tart responses you received may have been deserved. 

The answer is not in Wikipedia or any of the excellent Web sources you quote. The answer is outside your front door and on a hot day it smells of Tarmac.

Enjoy riding your fixed-gear bicycle and welcome back to bikes.


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## Ian H (30 May 2012)

I'm not sure anyone's claiming consistent cadence much over the low100s. But it's certainly possible on a fixed to attain comedy pedal speeds downhill. I'll leave you to work out 42mph on a 43x17 gear.


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## SportMonkey (30 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> Hi guys
> Don't wish to be rude but finding the conversation a little far fetched. I have just got home having hit the fastest average speed so far for me. I run a 42/13 and my max average over 20 miles WAS 25.6 mph and I am extremely proud of myself as tonight I managed 26.2 mph average over 20 miles.F@*KING GET IN THERE!!!!! My top speed was 31.2 mph and probably downhill . Anyhow, this makes my cadence 100.9 RPM. (Taken from http://www.lfgss.com/thread17162.html) If I ride a 27" wheel on 42/13 then 27 x (42/13) = 87.23 gear inch, which according to the website 336 divided by my gear inch and multiplied by my mph = my cadence. Hence, 336 / 87.23 x 26.2 = 100.9. So if all these websites are true then most of you are not human.
> 
> Now I have only been riding for 3 months and have only had my fixed gear for a month and I know I will get better in time, BUT according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(cycling) 90 RPM is about right for professionals. Mr Armstrong does 110 RPM and PROFESSIONAL SPRINTERS do around 170 RPM for very short periods. ( http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=433 ) makes for a very interesting read on cadence actually.
> ...


 
Well I wasn't going to say anything. At least all my boasts are backed up by GPS data...


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## ayceejay (30 May 2012)

I can bench press 500.


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## gaz (31 May 2012)

ayceejay said:


> I can bench press 500.


Grains of rice?


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## Dave Davenport (31 May 2012)

I've just been for a run and done 10k in 29' 30" wearing a pair of hob nailed boots, which I was very pleased with as I only started training a couple of weeks ago. Mind you, I came third in the school cross country race 36 years ago so it's not really surprising how bloody great I am.


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## simon.r (31 May 2012)

funk my fixie said:


> Point 3 The Guiness Book of Records records Chris Boardman as having achieved a world record of 52.270 km ph =32 to 33 mph. The people on here are hitting (Simon R) 29 mph for example, which he is doing on the road. You say about your commute to work so are doing it on a road as well. Therefore, if he/you had Chris Boardman's helmet, a velodrome, a 7-10 thousand pound bike etc etc then you two should be faster than the SSC II, Super Sonic Car.


 
I assume you've realised this from some of the other posts, but just for the record my 29mph is a_ maximum_ speed. I don't know what Mr Boardman's world record is for, but I'd guess it's something like an _average_ speed over an hour. It certainly isn't a maximum speed on the road. This chap appears to hold the record for that, at 83mph. Though he used a recumbent.

Edit - CB's record has been broken several times, it now stands at 56.375 kph (35mph).

My maths may not be right, I'm assuming that one of the many gear calculators on the web is correct. If I can achieve a _maximum_ cadence of 130 ish after a couple of hundred miles on a fixed gear, as a middle-aged, not particularly fit cyclist, it wouldn't surprise me at all if some people can hit 200+.


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## TheDoctor (10 Jun 2012)

I have hit 220 rpm on a bike in the gym. I couldn't maintain it for many seconds, but I did see it. I sure-as-hell wouldn't chance it on the road!!
My fixed has 39T/15 on 700c 23mm tyres for 68.4". That gives me 15 mph at a cadence of 75, and it seems to be a sweet spot for me - I can get up most of my local hills and get down them without my ankles unscrewing themselves.
I've also got a 17T freewheel on there for if I need it (or I find myself at the top of a big hill).


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## Pennine-Paul (15 Jun 2012)

I hit 53.9 km/h downhill last week,not that I could maintain that
cadence for long on a spinny 48/18!
that works out at a cadence of 160rpm.
I'm a grinder not a sprinter, gone back to a 48/14
would only need a cadence of 120 to replicate the same speed now


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