# Fitness, fun or both?



## Rusty Nails (30 Mar 2022)

I must admit to being someone who has never been able to motivate myself to stick for long with any fitness regime or to do anything that I could actually call training.
When I was young, from teens through my fifties I played a lot of sport, team and individual, often averaging 3-4 days a week and found that my level of activity was enough without having to work on fitness, although I did enjoy a bit of running just for the fun of it before knee trouble put an end to it.
In my fifties, injuries and age started having an effect so that just before the age of 60 it was just recreational squash and badminton a couple of days a week. At that time I decided to join a gym but can only describe my involvement as half-hearted and a bit of a chore. Knee and back problems made me give up squash and badminton at 64 and the gym had long lost its sparkle so I decided to try out cycling again, which I had given up forty years earlier. 11 years on and I still love it, averaging 2-3 20-25 mile rides a week, when not recovering from something or other, but I do not regard it as keeping fit, or sport, just something to raise the spirits.
I realise now that if it was not for the fact that I loved all the activities I have done my lack of will power would have turned me into a couch potato.

I suppose this is a long winded way of asking how many on here treat their cycling seriously, possibly even methodically, as part of their fitness regime, or do other activities specifically to boost their fitness, especially as they get older and their fitness is not such a given.


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## Ian H (30 Mar 2022)

I keep fit in order to cycle or walk (mostly by cycling and walking). I wouldn't do either if it was a chore.


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## matticus (30 Mar 2022)

Definitely in the "both" category here.


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## presta (30 Mar 2022)

All the activities I've done have been for enjoyment, with fitness as a by-product. I'm too slow to be competitive, so I used to avoid PE at school as far as possible. I tended to compete against myself a lot, which was probably my downfall.


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## Juan Kog (30 Mar 2022)

Ian H said:


> I keep fit in order to cycle or walk (mostly by cycling and walking). I wouldn't do either if it was a chore.


I’m with Ian on this , I cycle and walk because I enjoy both .I gave up using a turbo trainer years ago , because it had become a massive CHORE .
As Rusty says it raises the spirits . I call it Velo therapy, it keeps me in a good place both mentally and physically.


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## Arrowfoot (30 Mar 2022)

Became more conscious of and disciplined for fitness after I hit 50. Cycling became the main activity and moved away from impact sports. Also learnt to not to push too hard but more on cardio. Also used cycling to smell the roses - scenery, travel, places, stop by cafes for food variety etc. 

I am just glad despite we being at the tail end of our generation, we are seeing more focus in society in terms of health, fitness, more healthy food etc. I guess we are lucky. My Dad’s generation tend to let themselves go and it showed in appearance and I suspect NHS attendance.


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## Oldhippy (30 Mar 2022)

I have never followed a fitness regime of any kind but always had busy jobs, lighting rigger 20 years and social care 20 years a cyclist throughout and been a vegetarian all my life. At 58 I'm 10.5 stone and a 30 inch waist and still seem to be able to run rings round many half my age. Always active and healthy diet I suppose but never given it much attention.


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## Rusty Nails (30 Mar 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> I have never followed a fitness regime of any kind but always had busy jobs, lighting rigger 20 years and social care 20 years a cyclist throughout and been a vegetarian all my life. At 58 I'm 10.5 stone and a 30 inch waist and still seem to be able to run rings round many half my age. Always active and healthy diet I suppose but never given it much attention.


My jobs involved sitting on my backside a lot of the time, either in the office or the car. I am only a few lbs heavier than I was at 20, nowhere near as fit though, but I dread to think of the shape I would be now if it hadn't been for sport.

I believe that I was lucky to be born just after the war when food and luxuries were not as plentiful, or as full of crap and sugar, as they have been since the 1960s. The friends from my childhood that I am still in occasional contact with are also still fairly active and not overweight.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2022)

Fun, fitness and utility. I hated my commute when I had to drive it, so dull. Where as my cycle commute was great. I used to see my cycling as keeping me aerobically fit for my mountaineering. Having said that I’ve cycled and hill walked since young, without any gaps. Life long hobbies, it’s only now that I see how much difference it has made, compared to my sedentary peers. I had no idea about exercise and ageing when young. I just did my hobbies, never lost interest, as that’s what I enjoyed.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2022)

This might inspire all to keep active

https://www.veloveritas.co.uk/2020/05/17/george-berwick-may20/


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## Rusty Nails (30 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Fun, fitness and utility. I hated my commute when I had to drive it, so dull. Where as my cycle commute was great. I used to see my cycling as keeping me aerobically fit for my mountaineering. Having said that I’ve cycled and hill walked since young, without any gaps. Life long hobbies, it’s only now that I see how much difference it has made, compared to my sedentary peers. I had no idea about exercise and ageing when young. I just did my hobbies, never lost interest, as that’s what I enjoyed.


I was never in a position to commute to work by bike as I had to travel around a lot from the office, often at short notice. On the early morning rides I do these days I am always impressed by the bike commuters who seem to ride in almost all weathers, usually quite fast and often on bikes heavy with panniers. This must give them a good base of fitness as a by-product.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Fun, fitness and utility. I hated my commute when I had to drive it, so dull. Where as my cycle commute was great. I used to see my cycling as keeping me aerobically fit for my mountaineering. Having said that I’ve cycled and hill walked since young, without any gaps. Life long hobbies, it’s only now that I see how much difference it has made, compared to my sedentary peers. I had no idea about exercise and ageing when young. I just did my hobbies, never lost interest, as that’s what I enjoyed.


Much the same reasons myself. Not so much the fitness though. Cycling let me go further in the same time as walking, or the same distance in less time.
Used as a means of getting to work in some out of the way places, and became the daily means of travel to work in Leeds due to rail strikes. The same trip door to door, in much the same time. Due to being on the move nearly all the time.

If I didn't enjoy it, I doubt I'd be cycling.


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## SpokeyDokey (30 Mar 2022)

I used to do various activities to support my forays into the mountains for walking/scrambling and, way back climbing.

Now it's a mish-mash of cycling/low-level walking/gym/turbo/treadmill/hill walking just to keep the Grim Reaper at bay.



Spoiler: Heresy alert...



Cycling/turbo/treadmill are pretty boring tbh - much prefer gym and walking activities.


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## ianrauk (31 Mar 2022)

I'm in the both camps also. I started to cycle to school and then to work. I gave it up for a while due to rock and roll lifestyle and families etc. Took it up again at the age of 40. I had reached near 16 stone and was very unfit. It took me a while to get back into the swing of things again and was hard work. But all the cycling joy memories came right back. So fast forward a good few years later and a few stone lighter, I'm still so enjoying my cycling immensely with the added bonus that I'm keeping fit.


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## mudsticks (31 Mar 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> I must admit to being someone who has never been able to motivate myself to stick for long with any fitness regime or to do anything that I could actually call training.
> When I was young, from teens through my fifties I played a lot of sport, team and individual, often averaging 3-4 days a week and found that my level of activity was enough without having to work on fitness, although I did enjoy a bit of running just for the fun of it before knee trouble put an end to it.
> In my fifties, injuries and age started having an effect so that just before the age of 60 it was just recreational squash and badminton a couple of days a week. At that time I decided to join a gym but can only describe my involvement as half-hearted and a bit of a chore. Knee and back problems made me give up squash and badminton at 64 and the gym had long lost its sparkle so I decided to try out cycling again, which I had given up forty years earlier. 11 years on and I still love it, averaging 2-3 20-25 mile rides a week, when not recovering from something or other, but I do not regard it as keeping fit, or sport, just something to raise the spirits.
> I realise now that if it was not for the fact that I loved all the activities I have done my lack of will power would have turned me into a couch potato.
> ...


A bit of both really.

Most stuff I do for work, and pleasure involves being active.

But to stay aerobically fit enough for the longer and more strenuous trips I do, I need to top up with a bit of extra aerobic fittening.

So twice weekly runs or going out for a blast on the bike up any of our local hills. But I enjoy that too - good for the 'mental elf' as well 👍🏼

It's all very unscientific, not really 'training' but I think I'm 'in tune' enough with my body to work out how to stay 'fit enough' without injury...
The Yoga helps with all that.


I want to stay as fit as possible for as long as possible , as most things I enjoy require this.

Although I'm sane enough (just) to realise that my body's needs and capabilities will change as I age..


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## Alex321 (31 Mar 2022)

Very much both for me. My ostensive purpose is mainly fitness, but I certainly wouldn't keep it up if I didn't find it fun.

This last few weeks has been really frustrating, with such good cycling weather, but unable to take advantage of it.


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## Kajjal (31 Mar 2022)

I enjoy mountain biking in the drier months and so I can enjoy it as early as possible in the year I do road biking in the wetter / colder months to keep my fitness up. It is a way of keeping fit I enjoy so no real motivation issues.


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## Scotchlovingcylist (10 May 2022)

Also falling into the both camp.
Cycling was the only activity I really enjoyed barring hiking, the fitness aspect was always a by product for me. Nowadays it's certainly nice to see my fitness improving and has since spurred me on to run a couple of times a week and I've recently started yoga which I'm not ashamed to say I love.
In addition, it often keeps me motivated to eat healthy too and while the physical health benefits are obvious my mental health is the best its ever been.
As soon as exercise feels like a chore I tend to give up which I why I never really stick at anything else.


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## PaulSB (10 May 2022)

I ride my bike because I love to do so. I walk because I enjoy doing this with my wife and friends. Both of these keep me very fit.

I have a morning stretch routine which is intended to keep my 67 year old body flexible. I usually have a training programme of some sort going on but it's targeted at an event not fitness. I'm hoping to ride the 312 next year and I've just started working on a climbing regime.

Calorie counting is my thing though. Every meal I work out every calorie. I find it's very beneficial for portion control and weight loss.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Years ago I got into whitewater kayaking. If I wasn't doing that of a weekend I was walking. These were things I did and were to the exciting and challenging end of the spectrum. Walking is an understatement, I was scrambling and free climbing easy climbing grades as part of the walk. Not bad for someone who's knees knock on fear 3 steps up a ladder! 

The effect of challenging my fear of heights and drowning in a waterfall or rapids made me gain confidence from a very low level after school years. The physical aspect was good and part of why I did it, but the mental health aspects were the best part I just didn't realise until later on. 

The social aspect too. I used to work then go home and isolate. I'd go to the gym but isolate myself doing it. Hobbies included driving around the lakes all day and walking in the lakes by myself. When I joined clubs for mountaineering and kayaking I was forced to be social and I loved it. Great friends come from the knowledge people have your back on a river, will rescue you and put themselves at risk doing it too. Even though I lost contact I still see those people as friends.

So imho exercise can be more than just the grind you need to do to keep fit, it's a holistic activity too if you do the right one.

So my answer is both and so much more.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> I was scrambling and free climbing easy climbing grades as part of the walk. Not bad for someone who's knees knock on fear 3 steps up a ladder!



Didn’t realise you were American. Funny how some phrases give it away.


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## mustang1 (11 May 2022)

Fun for me. Fitness is a side benefit. But the more fun I have, the fitter I get. Double win!


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## fossyant (11 May 2022)

Both here, but I'll add in a third of 'commuting' - good for mental health and 'cheaper' travel that's more reliable time wise. Nothing worse than being stuck in a car/train when you know you've got to be somewhere. Bike, I can be at work/home within a specified time, give or take a couple of minutes.

It's a circle though - if you don't ride enough, you lose fitness, then things become less enjoyable, especially when chasing mates up a big hill (road or off road). Commuting is a good way of maintaining a base which makes the fun stuff more enjoyable as you've got good fitness.


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Didn’t realise you were American. Funny how some phrases give it away.



Which phrases do think those were? I can't see anything in what he wrote that I wouldn't expect from British friends.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Which phrases do think those were? I can't see anything in what he wrote that I wouldn't expect from British friends.



Free climbing is a very definite American phrase. In Britain you’d say trad climbing, or more usually just climbing.


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Free climbing is a very definite American phrase. In Britain you’d say trad climbing.



Not true. I've heard both my brother in law and my stepson use the phrase free climbing, and never heard either of them use the phrase "trad climbing". Both are British (Welsh) climbers. 

If they weren't using the phrase "free climbing", it would be "soloing".


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Not true. I've heard both my brother in law and my stepson use the phrase free climbing, and never heard either of them use the phrase "trad climbing". Both are British (Welsh) climbers.
> 
> If they weren't using the phrase "free climbing", it would be "soloing".



Then they have picked up the American phrase rather than what’s been used in Britain for a very long time. Free climbing is not the same meaning as soloing.


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Then they have picked up the American phrase rather than what’s been used in Britain for a very long time.


Maybe, but I would say that means it is in fairly common usage in Britain, so not an indication of being American.



Ming the Merciless said:


> Free climbing is not the same meaning as soloing.



So it isn't. I'd always misunderstood when I've heard them use the phrase, and thought it was. Having looked it up when you said that, it seems from the Wiki article that I'm not alone in that misunderstanding 

I'm not a climber myself (though I've tried a few easy routes with them), and always just assumed that when they used that phrase, it meant without ropes. I also suspect that was the sense Time Waster was using it in.


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## matticus (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Then they have picked up the American phrase rather than what’s been used in Britain for a very long time. Free climbing is not the same meaning as soloing.



<data point> I've never climbed [with ropes-n-shoot] but I follow stuff in the meeja. Read the odd magazine, watched Free Solo, been to a Simon Yates talk, that sort of thing.

In my mind, "free climbing" is the same as "soloing". I'm quite happy to be wrong about this, as I know so little about the subject


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Then they have picked up the American phrase rather than what’s been used in Britain for a very long time. Free climbing is not the same meaning as soloing.





Alex321 said:


> Maybe, but I would say that means it is in fairly common usage in Britain, so not an indication of being American.


Thinking about this more, my brother in law (and to a lesser extent my stepson) has climbed all over the world, including places like Yosemite, and he was the first Welshman to summit Everest, so it is quite likely he would have picked up phraseology from other places (such as the US) , even if not all that common usage in the UK.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

matticus said:


> <data point> I've never climbed [with ropes-n-shoot] but I follow stuff in the meeja. Read the odd magazine, watched Free Solo, been to a Simon Yates talk, that sort of thing.
> 
> In my mind, "free climbing" is the same as "soloing". I'm quite happy to be wrong about this, as I know so little about the subject



No, free climbing is climbing with ropes and gear for protection such as nuts, cams, runners etc which in Britain we call trad (short for traditional) but without using the rope or gear to actually ascend I.e. you don’t pull on it like in aid climbing. Free soloing as named in America is what we call soloing in Britain, which is basically climbing without any gear for protection and essentially on your own I.e. solo.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Maybe, but I would say that means it is in fairly common usage in Britain, so not an indication of being American.



I don’t know how much climbing you’ve done but in my four decades of climbing , the phrase has only appeared recently likely due to the few films that have come out. But it’s not a phrase I’ve heard down the crag, which you’d think odd if it truly was a common phrase amongst British climbers.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Thinking about this more, my brother in law (and to a lesser extent my stepson) has climbed all over the world, including places like Yosemite, and he was the first Welshman to summit Everest, so it is quite likely he would have picked up phraseology from other places (such as the US) , even if not all that common usage in the UK.



But you’ve just said it is in common usage which means you must have heard it from lots of British climbers over the decades. Not just the odd time from Caradoc


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## Sea of vapours (11 May 2022)

matticus said:


> In my mind, "free climbing" is the same as "soloing". I'm quite happy to be wrong about this, as I know so little about the subject


That's a common misuse. The critical distinction is between 'aid climbing' and 'free climbing'. In the former, ropes and other gear are used to actually aid in ascending; in the latter ropes and other gear are used solely for protection, to arrest a fall (EDIT: as Ming says above). 



Ming the Merciless said:


> Free soloing as named in America is what we call soloing in Britain, which is basically climbing without any gear for protection and essentially on your own I.e. solo.


Slightly picky point, but, whilst 'soloing' tends not to involve using any ropes / gear for protection, that's not /necessary/. i.e. one can solo - meaning climb alone - whilst also protecting oneself using ropes / gear. It is something of a faff but not that uncommon. 

I concur with Ming that 'free climbing' is an originally US term, but it's pretty ubiquitous now, especially outside the UK. I have climbed widely (icefalls and mountaineering mostly, rather than difficult rock grades), so that's perhaps something of a different perspective compared to someone steeped in British rock climbing, where 'free climbing' might be quite a new term. Oh - and I've always taken 'Free solo' to mean 'Free AND solo' - two distinct features of the climb in the film.


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## Ian H (11 May 2022)

The last organised rock-climbing i did was back in the 80s. I was always amused by the terminology (e.g 'hard very difficult' or 'hard very severe') https://www.thebmc.co.uk/a-brief-explanation-of-uk-traditional-climbing-grades


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## matticus (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> climbing with ropes and gear for protection such as nuts, cams, runners etc which in Britain we call *trad *(short for traditional)



The only other context I know for "trad" is in Jazz circles. Are there others?
\double-thread-divert


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## Dogtrousers (11 May 2022)

Regarding the OP, fun or fitness I've always enjoyed (and still enjoy) fitness related activities. So there's no difference really. 

It did take a while for me to discover this having had a hatred of sport inculcated into me at school. Eventually I learned you could do this kind of stuff without it being "sport"

I've never had a "fitness routine" that was a grind and I didn't really enjoy. I think I'd give that up pretty quickly if I tried it. (Sometimes the enjoyment is in a distinctly "type 2 fun" kind of way).

These days I still do workouts and turbo interval sessions - pure fitness stuff - as much for the fun of it as for the fitness effect. As well as going out and riding my bike and doing proper cycling outside. 



matticus said:


> The only other context I know for "trad" is in Jazz circles. Are there others?
> \double-thread-divert


Treble thread divert. Here's a record featuring no fewer than three different artists called Pee-Wee


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But you’ve just said it is in common usage which means you must have heard it from lots of British climbers over the decades. Not just the odd time from Caradoc



No, I didn't say it *is* in common usage, just that I expected if used by those two, it probably is.

I then realised that might not be true, given Caradoc's travels and experience, which is why I made the second post.


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## rockyroller (11 May 2022)

at 63, I go to the gym for weight training. I have a 2nd job that is very physical, lots of walking, bending, lifting & twisting. the bike is great for what that works, lungs & butt. I wish I could ride more than once a week. summer is coming, so I'm hopeful. Monday was a good day, went to the gym twice then rode after work!


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## Moodyman (11 May 2022)

rockyroller said:


> at 63, I go to the gym for weight training. I have a 2nd job that is very physical, lots of walking, bending, lifting & twisting. the bike is great for what that works, lungs & butt. I wish I could ride more than once a week. summer is coming, so I'm hopeful. Monday was a good day, went to the gym twice then rode after work!



Resistance exercise is not only good in itself, but aids cycling/walking/running.

A few weeks of squats and core strength exercises really improve cycling endurance.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Alex321 said:


> No, I didn't say it *is* in common usage, just that I expected if used by those two, it probably is.







Hmmm, make your mind up 😂


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Sea of vapours said:


> Slightly picky point, but, whilst 'soloing' tends not to involve using any ropes / gear for protection, that's not /necessary/. i.e. one can solo - meaning climb alone - whilst also protecting oneself using ropes / gear. It is something of a faff but not that uncommon.



Now that has a term, self belaying, which I wouldn't consider soloing as such. Though it’s done solo so maybe it is! I would say it‘s not common, not something you’ll see every day down crag or up a mountain multi pitch. Now what was this thread originally about and will it still reach its destination?


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## Dogtrousers (11 May 2022)

So, @Ming the Merciless do you do climbing for the fun, or for the pedantry? Or both?


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## FishFright (11 May 2022)

Ian H said:


> The last organised rock-climbing i did was back in the 80s. I was always amused by the terminology (e.g 'hard very difficult' or 'hard very severe') https://www.thebmc.co.uk/a-brief-explanation-of-uk-traditional-climbing-grades



It's always tickled me that they gave up at 'Extremely Severe" and resorted to numbers. This is territory I've only been in on second or top roping lol


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## Sea of vapours (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Now that has a term, self belaying, which I wouldn't consider soloing as such. Though it’s done solo so maybe it is! I would say it‘s not common, not something you’ll see every day down crag or up a mountain multi pitch


I think, what with being solo and all, it pretty much has to be 'soloing' .... It is most certainly a teeny, tiny subset of soloing though, what with being a huge faff and taking ages. At least, the two multi-ptich, alpine routes I've used such techniques on were both slow and a faff. That may have been down to my being pretty scared most of the time though :-) 


Dogtrousers said:


> So, @Ming the Merciless do you do climbing for the fun, or for the pedantry? Or both?


Climbing of all sorts is an endless source of serious pedantry, in terminology terms at least 

And just to get back on topic: I've never gone climbing / mountaineering / ice climbing / anything else which is intrinsically good fun,including cycling, with the intent of becoming fit, though it tends to be a fortuitous consequence.


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## Alex321 (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> View attachment 644245
> 
> Hmmm, make your mind up 😂



No.

I will always be willing to change my mind.

I don't actually see any contradictions there though. Perhaps you missed the "it means ..." which is what I was later changing my mind about.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Didn’t realise you were American. Funny how some phrases give it away.



Not American at all but interested to know what the America phrase was.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Not American at all but interested to know what the America phrase was.



Free climbing


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## Venod (11 May 2022)

I cycle nowadays to keep fit, but I also enjoy getting out on the bike, I rarely do group rides nowadays, I have done a lot of running alone so I quite like solo riding.
The running was to keep fit and for Orienteering, I still do a bit of running and MTB Orienteering.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Free climbing is a very definite American phrase. In Britain you’d say trad climbing, or more usually just climbing.



Trad climbing is with nuts, cams and removable protection. Free climbing in the UK among my climbing friends is climbing without protection. Sport climbing is climbing with bolts for pro more common in North America and Europe in the past. Or at least that's what I got taught years back when I did such things.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

I stand corrected!
BMC CLIMBING LINGO


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> I stand corrected!
> BMC CLIMBING LINGO



Yep, and as I was saying the term you used is an American one.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

I never really thought climbing made me fit. It made me able i hand upside down for really long times and do over 100 chin ups in one go. But then I was only 9.5 stone and 6 foot 5 when I climbed. I could hang from one arm to rest, put the other hand on rock or more likely climbing wall then lift my legs up to the overhang I was climbing on. One climbing centre (Cliffs Barn somewhere near Preston or Chorley iirc) had a tricky overhang problem that on my one lass and myself managed to climb. There were a few better climbers than me but I was a lot lighter and could do the tricky move around the corner by climbing upside down at one point before correcting myself. Not a good style but it worked.

I never felt fitter though. I was still at the back of the group when walking with the mountaineering and walking group.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> I never really thought climbing made me fit. It made me able i hand upside down for really long times and do over 100 chin ups in one go. But then I was only 9.5 stone and 6 foot 5 when I climbed. I could hang from one arm to rest, put the other hand on rock or more likely climbing wall then lift my legs up to the overhang I was climbing on. One climbing centre (Cliffs Barn somewhere near Preston or Chorley iirc) had a tricky overhang problem that on my one lass and myself managed to climb. There were a few better climbers than me but I was a lot lighter and could do the tricky move around the corner by climbing upside down at one point before correcting myself. Not a good style but it worked.
> 
> I never felt fitter though. I was still at the back of the group when walking with the mountaineering and walking group.



What was your lead grade?


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Not sure. I wasn't a climber.

Seriously, I wanted to go out walking in interesting places in winter with other people because I didn't think I had enough experience to go out on my own. There were no walking groups but there was a mountaineering group that also did walks. To get in with them I used to go to a climbing wall on club nights and climbing days too. I figured climbing would help my fear of heights but roped climbing didn't, scrambling did. 

On the climbing wall I rarely went up but used the traversing wall instead to practise moves. The group were only into trad back then and I hadn't heard of bouldering but that was kind of what I did. 

I was comfortable up to HVS I think but my fear of heights kicked in. Technically I was probably capable of a few E numbers up but exposure stopped me. 

I don't call myself a climber because I didn't kit up and didn't lead much. It wasn't my thing but a necessary social thing to get out into wintery hills.

I did meet some interesting people. One guy was a retired public school teacher who in his youth used the longer school holidays to go exploring in the 4ps or 50s I think he said. He knew all the old explorers and was honorary, life members of some very exclusive climbing clubs. A guy who did things like buy a donkey to get out into Patagonia or similar to climb on his own before many Europeans had even seen some of the peaks. Often meeting the more well known explorers of his day. He was old when I knew him but still climbed well, could get up hills quicker than many of us youngsters and often ski mountaineered to on group winter walks because it was easier for him to climb then ski along the ridge to meet at the top than take our route. To be fair though he did have Parkinsons at the time.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Not sure. I wasn't a climber.



In which case you didn’t have a lead grade. Which is fine, not everyone leads.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Oh those were good times as I had the mountaineering group to go out with on the nice weather days and kayak club on the wetter days. I later dropped the mountaineering club and got serious about kayaking. Which also didn't keep me fit. Climbing and kayaking did give me a strong set of core muscles. I could do stomach curls on inclined bench for fun! 

BTW if you're a gym bunny find one with a freedom trainer. You can set the arms up to allow you to mimic kayaking paddle stroke complete with core rotation. Sitting on a gym ball gives you instability too which makes it very hard exercise. There simply isn't any other gym kit I've found that works your arms, core, leg muscles as effectively. My core was strong but 3 sets of 15 reps would leave my core muscles, adductor and other groin muscles forked more than my arms.


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## Time Waster (11 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> In which case you didn’t have a lead grade. Which is fine, not everyone leads.



Poor form and etiquette not to do your share of leading I thought. Of course in a club there's often people quite happy to lead for you either to encourage a less experienced or to gain leading experience.

I did lead the odd VS but tbh I could climb that level without protection so it was kind of pointless. Did that when climbing through I think it's called, where you second then keep on going to lead the next pitch.

I have no idea what i was really capable of if I hadn't got a fear of heights. I know bouldering problems I could do harder than a guy claiming E3 lead, E4 or E5 second. He was a German guy and competitive so didn't like that. He twisted my arm to do the big wall to show me up. Told me it was equivalent to a grade I could trad climb at but it wasn't, a lot harder and I reached my fear limit and refused to let go to be lowered down. Instead I downclimbed taking out quick draws as I went! Everyone thought I was weird! He learnt his lesson and never climbed with me again at the wall.

Back then it was considered a good climbing wall. In Preston in the 90s.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Poor form and etiquette not to do your share of leading I thought. Of course in a club there's often people quite happy to lead for you either to encourage a less experienced or to gain leading experience.
> 
> I did lead the odd VS but tbh I could climb that level without protection so it was kind of pointless. Did that when climbing through I think it's called, where you second then keep on going to lead the next pitch.
> 
> ...



Climbing walls in the 90s were fairly basic. Not comparable to leading outdoors at all. Nothing wrong with only seconding. Not everyone has a head for leading.


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## fossyant (12 May 2022)

There is also another reason why I keep cycling, even having picked up some serious injuries in the past.

This might offend some...

But there is no way, whilst their is still air in my lungs, am I ever getting an e-bike.  I have a few other cycling mates with the same opinion.

Note: This opinion is the poster's own words so don't get upset. 👅


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## ColinJ (12 May 2022)

fossyant said:


> But there is no way, whilst their is still air in my lungs, am I ever getting an e-bike.  I have a few other cycling mates with the same opinion.


Top ex-pros _*Sean Yates*_ and _*Brian Robinson*_ would probably have said the same before they needed to buy theirs!


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## fossyant (12 May 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Top ex-pros _*Sean Yates*_ and _*Brian Robinson*_ would probably have said the same before they needed to buy theirs!



What, Yatesey has a leccy bike


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## ColinJ (12 May 2022)

fossyant said:


> What, Yatesey has a leccy bike



If you follow the link you'll see that he has had horrendous health problems since retiring.


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## Time Waster (12 May 2022)

Isn't there research that indicates that e bike users get me exercise from the e-bike compared to non powered bike use. Or something like that.


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## ColinJ (12 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Isn't there research that indicates that e bike users get me exercise from the e-bike compared to non powered bike use. Or something like that.



I think it shows that they ride more often and further than they would ride non-electric bikes, so they get more benefit than they otherwise would.

They wouldn't be getting more benefit than someone doing the same rides on a conventional bike!


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## fossyant (12 May 2022)

ColinJ said:


> I think it shows that they ride more often and further than they would ride non-electric bikes, so they get more benefit than they otherwise would.
> 
> They wouldn't be getting more benefit than someone doing the same rides on a conventional bike!



Correct. You need a certain un-balanced personality to love the pain - it's not in everyone, so that's where an e-bike is brill.


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## Sittingduck (24 Jul 2022)

Seven


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## CXRAndy (25 Jul 2022)

mike9199 said:


> I started to do cardio training twice a week for now. What is the maximum days a week i can go with the time?



If the level is in Z1 you should be able to easily do five to six days a week. 

Don't mock Z1 either, it's a vital ingredient to building a huge cardiovascular engine.

Once you've got a good few months of Z1/2 then add in Z5 high intensity training 

Final, listen to your body and rest when feeling tired. Structured training suggest every forth week, back off riding for the week, do around 50% of usual training level


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Jul 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Isn't there research that indicates that e bike users get me exercise from the e-bike compared to non powered bike use. Or something like that.



They get more exercise than sofa surfers


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## CXRAndy (25 Jul 2022)

I can easily hit max HR using my ebike, Im just alot faster.

I primarily use my ebike for local shopping, but Ive found it a great training tool. 

I can ride up any hill or into a howling gale and remain in Z1/2 .

That is invaluable for consistency whilst training.


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## matticus (25 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I can easily hit max HR using my ebike, Im just alot faster.
> 
> I primarily use my ebike for local shopping, but Ive found it a great training tool.
> 
> ...



What are you training for- the eOlympics??


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## Alex321 (25 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I can easily hit max HR using my ebike, Im just alot faster.


I don't think that is quite the right wording

Nobody can *easily* hit their max heart rate. You are almost at the point of blacking out when you hit it. If you are getting close to it and can still talk, then your max HR is higher than you think it is.


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## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I don't think that is quite the right wording
> 
> Nobody can *easily* hit their max heart rate. You are almost at the point of blacking out when you hit it. If you are getting close to it and can still talk, then your max HR is higher than you think it is.



I don't agree, once you know your limits and regularly hit it like I do most weeks, racing on Zwift. I don't mind the discomfort, quite like it -masochistic way. I peak out at 180bpm, yesterdays race, saw me 4 times reach 175bpm for 15secs. Not quite total max, climb nor sprint was quite long enough. 

nothing wrong with pushing the limits if you have no underlying issues


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## Alex321 (26 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I don't agree, once you know your limits and regularly hit it like I do most weeks, racing on Zwift. I don't mind the discomfort, quite like it -masochistic way. I peak out at 180bpm, yesterdays race, saw me 4 times reach 175bpm for 15secs. Not quite total max, climb nor sprint was quite long enough.
> 
> nothing wrong with pushing the limits if you have no underlying issues



You may be able to get close *fairly* easily, you may even be able to hit the max fairly regularly.

But it is never "easy" to hit max heart rate - pretty well by definition, you can only hit that if you are working absolutely at the max level you are capable of, and that ain't easy.


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## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> But it is never "easy" to hit max heart rate - pretty well by definition, you can only hit that if you are working absolutely at the max level you are capable of, and that ain't easy.



But you will find many folk don't like the sensation of laboured breathing, so rarely if ever push themselves to find maximum or even near max like threshold HR.

This is my HR analysis from yesterdays event.






38s at Anerobic and 7m34s Threshold HR


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## presta (26 Jul 2022)

When I was a walker I used to spend a lot of time in the national parks, so it wasn't long after I started cycle touring before I had my eye on the same places. I remember the buzz I got the first time I cycled to the Peak District from home in Essex, being in such a familiar place and having got there under my own steam, and then repeating that again a few days later in the Yorkshire Dales, Lake District, and North York Moors.

At any time in the 11 years since my health forced me to quit touring I could have gone and bought an E-Bike, and it would doubtlessly have helped wring a few more short tours out of me before giving up, but that would have utterly robbed me of that buzz from getting as far as possible under my own steam, and I could never have lived with the feeling of cheating. The humiliation of having to say "Yes, but it's an E-Bike" when people say "Wow, you've cycled all that way?", not to mention piling on a load of range-anxiety baggage.

I was lucky that the last tour I did was my best tour, which is how it should be ideally, finishing off with a load of frustrating, humiliating E-Tours would have spoilt the memories I have.


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## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

presta said:


> When I was a walker I used to spend a lot of time in the national parks, so it wasn't long after I started cycle touring before I had my eye on the same places. I remember the buzz I got the first time I cycled to the Peak District from home in Essex, being in such a familiar place and having got there under my own steam, and then repeating that again a few days later in the Yorkshire Dales, Lake District, and North York Moors.
> 
> At any time in the 11 years since my health forced me to quit touring I could have gone and bought an E-Bike, and it would doubtlessly have helped wring a few more short tours out of me before giving up, but that would have utterly robbed me of that buzz from getting as far as possible under my own steam, and I could never have lived with the feeling of cheating. The humiliation of having to say "Yes, but it's an E-Bike" when people say "Wow, you've cycled all that way?", not to mention piling on a load of range-anxiety baggage.
> 
> I was lucky that the last tour I did was my best tour, which is how it should be ideally, finishing off with a load of frustrating, humiliating E-Tours would have spoilt the memories I have.


 Wow

Never thought I should cast my achievements from whatever period in life onto the scrap heap, because they didn't match my peak performance. 

Im off to delete all my rides which are subpar


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## ColinJ (26 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> You may be able to get close *fairly* easily, you may even be able to hit the max fairly regularly.
> 
> But it is never "easy" to hit max heart rate - pretty well by definition, you can only hit that if you are working absolutely at the max level you are capable of, and that ain't easy.



A couple of days ago I watched a video of a ramp test. The rider had been wearing a face mask to monitor his oxygen uptake. When he finally cracked and slumped over the handlebar, the sports scientist in charge removed the mask. I won't describe the yucky details; let's just say that the exhausted rider's face was not a pretty sight...


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## 8mph (26 Jul 2022)

My work can be quite strenuous so cycling for fitness isn't part of the agenda. I like touring, so before a tour I'll use the bike to do my shopping, which is about 10 miles a day. Between tours I go for an overnighter on Dartmoor about once a month and take the mountain bike up there for 90 minute rides as well sometimes (not sure if that counts as sport?)

I have given up drinking, which has improved my fitness, but I did so in order to save cash for bike parts and it stuck.


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