# Do I want a smart meter?



## stephec (30 Apr 2022)

At the moment we still have traditional gas and electric meters but are obviously being encouraged to go for a smart meter. 

So far I've been holding back, despite it being an amazing benefit for me according to my supplier. 

For those that have had one fitted, what are your experiences?


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Apr 2022)

The only benefit is not having to do meter readings and getting an idea of where your costs are coming from. If like me you turn lights off in rooms you are not in, and don’t spend an hour in the shower, you certainly won’t see huge saving or anything of the sort.


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## Mo1959 (30 Apr 2022)

I always laugh at the adverts for them. It's as if they are saying if you install one you will magically save money. Surely, it's just common sense to turn things off or down to save a bit without any help from a smart meter.


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## Roseland triker (30 Apr 2022)

Don't do it. Make them send you a quarterly bill and pay it as and when. 
Do not go direct debit and watch your usages.


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## Mo1959 (30 Apr 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Do not go direct debit and watch your usages.



Do most energy suppliers not offer quite a decent discount for paying by direct debit though?


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## Roseland triker (30 Apr 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Do most energy suppliers not offer quite a decent discount for paying by direct debit though?


Nope. The same rate per unit applys.


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## Mo1959 (30 Apr 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Nope. The same rate per unit applys.



I'm with SSE and this is from their help page.




*Get a discount off your bills* 
For fixed price tariffs, we’ll give you an annual discount for each fuel when you pay by Direct Debit.
Variable Direct Debit​With a variable Direct Debit you pay your energy bill in full each quarter via Direct Debit. Your bill will show the amount and date of the payment, and you'll get a discount per fuel. To set this up, please get in touch.


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## BoldonLad (30 Apr 2022)

We have made the switch. It has made absolutely no difference, to us, except I no longer have to send them meter readings. The only way you will save money is by using less, the smart meter in itself has no effect.


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## Roseland triker (30 Apr 2022)

It's quite simple. You pay for each unit used and it's the same price per unit what ever way you pay.
They just like DD as they can profit from the overpayment investment.
When you atchually look deep it's no saving


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## byegad (30 Apr 2022)

If you know an on switch uses money, you don't need one.

They've started to change their advert's to say it will help the supply and generation people to plan and supply, which may have some traction and truth behind it. 

A friend who worked in the industry on the billing side is hugely sceptical about inter-operability of the current meters across suppliers, the issue being that each supplier was allowed to develop their own smart meter and then they were asked to bring out a second generation that was useable by all suppliers, it failed, although some suppliers' meter will work now with some other suppliers, but not all.

When he left the industry, some three years ago, they were developing and testing a third generation of meter, and were having issues with that.


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## midlife (30 Apr 2022)

I pay a bit more as I pay quarterly (by cheque sometimes lol), paper bill through the letterbox. quite happy as my money is in my bank and not theirs.....


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## ebikeerwidnes (30 Apr 2022)

I have one for years - installed by BG and worked fine
then I changed to anotehr company and it stopped sending reading to the new company - but otherwise worked fine - could still take reading from the display unit
Then I changed again - and it still worked
after a few years it just stopped 
just displayed an error message
So from then on I had to go outside and read the meter just like before

I am currently with EDF and I have been pestering them to get it working 
Then - seemingly by magic - it started working a few months ago - they did send me an email saying it was so I plugged the display unit back in (amazingly I found it first time!!!) and it was all fine

Just as well as we are going to get solar panels installed soon and we will need one!!


As others have said - they save you money - something between £0.00 and -£1.00
why minus??
well the display unit must take some electrons - probably less than a pound a year but whatever
other than that the saving are all made by the energy company that no longer needs to send out someone to read the meter as they did before - and they don;t have to have as many telephone operators to take reading - and all that

and - on top of that they can get more accurate reading and hence know who is using what and when

But for $reasons the energy companies have 'persuaded' the government (several of them) that it should all be paid for by putting up the bills to the consumers

In the end they also have the advantage that they will open the door to variable prices based on time of day and supply
For example, at times the grid is receiving more energy than can be used - e.g. a windy night when everyone (nearly) is in bed - so energy becomes very cheap - and Octupus are even saying there can be times when the grid would pay them to take electricity and they would pay the customer to use it

WHich would be great if you wanted to charge a battery from a solar system - or an electric car!!!


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## annedonnelly (30 Apr 2022)

My supplier asked me to get one sometime in 2020. I didn't care one way or the other so I allowed them to do it. Electric was off for longer than they'd said so interrupted my working from home :-( Then the chap went away saying it was in but wasn't talking to the network so someone would have to sort it out.

No contact until earlier this year when they rang a couple of times wanting to come to look at it. At the time I was housebound and unable to walk & told them I wasn't having anyone coming and turning my electric off. I've not heard from them since and still have to read the meter every month.


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## cyberknight (30 Apr 2022)

Got an edf one and unplugged it about a day afterwards , we are going to use the same amount of electric no matter what and i have enough to worry about without seeing the ££ rising as the day goes on


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## PeteXXX (30 Apr 2022)

No.


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## presta (30 Apr 2022)

The reason I don't have one is that when I browse the MSE website, all the people I see complaining about erroneous bills are ones with smart meters. Even when people get bills so outlandish they're impossible they still seem to be in contention, I remember one case where someone was alleged to have used so much electricity the temperature inside the house would have been 2000C.

I quite like the idea of being able to download data to a spreadsheet, but not at the expense of a load of hassle over a faulty meter. I had one run in with the electricity company about 20 years ago, not a faulty meter, just incompetent admin, but it took a year and a threat from debt collectors before it was sorted out. (In the end they waived the whole bill, not just the sum in contention, and paid £30 compensation.)

There are quite a lot of people who don't understand the difference between power (which is marked on the rating plate), and energy which you pay for, and for those, I think that short duration measurements with meters are likely to be highly misleading. People latch on to high power appliances and think they're the demon without considering either the period they're used for, or the duty cycle of any thermostat. My kettle is 2.7kW, but an 18W router uses three times as much energy because the router's on all day, the kettle isn't. The peak power on the rating plate of my freezer is 90W, but the mean power, net of the thermostat duty cycle is 23W.



Roseland triker said:


> It's quite simple. You pay for each unit used and it's the same price per unit what ever way you pay.



DD tariffs have been cheaper than quarterly bills for more years than I can remember, it's the reason I wrestled with the decision every time I switched supplier. Check the total cost, including standing charge and any discounts, not just the unit charge.


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## Oldhippy (30 Apr 2022)

I had one and it was no use at all in quizzes.


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## geocycle (30 Apr 2022)

We have them but they regularly miss readings meaning we have to read them manually. This is probably because the mobile phone signal round here is rubbish. The plug in display was interesting for a few days then we unplugged it. I’d not bother if you can resist the hard sell.


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## MrGrumpy (30 Apr 2022)

cyberknight said:


> Got an edf one and unplugged it about a day afterwards , we are going to use the same amount of electric no matter what and i have enough to worry about without seeing the ££ rising as the day goes on



That’s just the small display unit . I don’t look at mine neither . I just ask that lights and TVs are switched off when not in rooms etc


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## fossyant (30 Apr 2022)

Direct debit and I do monthly readings to the supplier, I'm in control. I believe some suppliers are struggling sending out regular bills with smart meters. I just pop my readings in a spreadsheet.


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## a.twiddler (30 Apr 2022)

Perhaps many people's lives have been filled with buttercups and unicorns since they had a smart meter installed but I can only speak from my own experience. It's many years since we had ours fitted for gas and electricity. We were with Scottish Power then. We eagerly awaited the new fangled technology which we hoped would let us see exactly what we were using in real time, especially as we already had solar panels. 

A surly sub contractor and his mate rolled up, did a very speedy job, and cleared off to his next customer with a minimum of discussion. We looked at the remote read out which was very basic and didn't really tell us much. Then we found that our bills were going up despite no change in our activities. I queried this with Scottish Power who suggested that our old meters might have been under reading. Yeah, right. We asked them to send someone out to check on them, which they wouldn't do. This led to a falling out and a change of supplier, which worked out cheaper. 

We've changed supplier many times since (quite a few of whom are now out of business due to recent events). Many smaller suppliers don't support the smart meter system so we went back to monthly readings. Even when we were with Eon we weren't pressured to update our smart meters to theirs. The meters still mock us with the Scottish Power logo on them.

Recently someone tried to get me interested in smart meters again, "they're second generation now sir, they're much better and you can transfer them when you move suppliers". Just colour me unconvinced for now. A meter is still a meter whatever electronic gizmos it has.


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## welsh dragon (30 Apr 2022)

Bulb energy keep sending me e-mails asking me to make an appointment to have one installed. I just keep ignoring them. 

I've heard too many bad things about them not working, going wrong etc so no thanks. I will pass.


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## si_c (30 Apr 2022)

I'm not keen on companies having more information than they need about my activities. Certainly not companies who may find ways of monetising that data later. Same applies to my internet usage, I don't allow people to track my usage if avoidable.

The much touted benefits of a smart meter are entirely predicated upon you seeing your usage, looking aghast at the price and turning off a light in the house. Like most people it is unlikely that you'll find any benefit to having one unless you are particularly profligate with your usage, I doubt for example that you'll run the washing machine any less often or turn the fridge off overnight to save money.

The only real benefit as noted above, is at the supplier side where they no longer have to pay Dataserve, Morrison DS or one of the other meter reading organisations to have someone manually read your meter periodically.

The one caveat to that might be if you planned to use a time of day tariff where you are billed in half hourly increments, but if that's the case then you are likely to already have solar PV and/or a battery installation.


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## Chromatic (30 Apr 2022)

welsh dragon said:


> Bulb energy keep sending me e-mails asking me to make an appointment to have one installed. I just keep ignoring them.
> 
> I've heard too many bad things about them not working, going wrong etc so no thanks. I will pass.



Like you I get regular communication asking me to book to have one installed and like you I ignore them.


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## Mark pallister (30 Apr 2022)

I’ve got one ,it doesn’t work in the house ,only place it gets a signal is in the garage on the other side of the wall to the meter 
it’s sat there for a couple of years now ,I never look at it and have no idea how it works 
the wife sorts out all the finances and is happy as it saves her reading the meters


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## Gillstay (30 Apr 2022)

Mark pallister said:


> I’ve got one ,it doesn’t work in the house ,only place it gets a signal is in the garage on the other side of the wall to the meter
> it’s sat there for a couple of years now ,I never look at it and have no idea how it works
> the wife sorts out all the finances and is happy as it saves her reading the meters



Yep, the only saving is on sending in a reading. Would not have had one if I had been thinking on the day I agreed.


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## MrGrumpy (30 Apr 2022)

Mark pallister said:


> I’ve got one ,it doesn’t work in the house ,only place it gets a signal is in the garage on the other side of the wall to the meter
> it’s sat there for a couple of years now ,I never look at it and have no idea how it works
> the wife sorts out all the finances and is happy as it saves her reading the meters



I use the app to see my usage, can see spikes on a daily basis. Never bothered looking at the small display telling you what your currently using . All those saying it doesn’t save you money . Well getting one fitted may not do that but it can help point you to think about what your spend is ! 
Main issue with them is changing provider , they seem to stop. That for me is wrong, although I suspect the real issue is mobile signal strength.


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## Alex321 (30 Apr 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Do most energy suppliers not offer quite a decent discount for paying by direct debit though?



Most do, yes.


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## Hornchurch (30 Apr 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> *Don't do it.*





Roseland triker said:


> * Make them send you a quarterly bill *and pay it as and when.
> Do not go direct debit and watch your usages.






Quarterly bills "don't happen" anymore, according to the M.S.E (Money-Saver-Expert) discussion forums I wuz reading.

I was ALWAYS quarterly, until the bar-stewards "moved the goal-posts" - (A LARGE FAMOUS SUPPLIER, I SHALL NOT NAME !)

Looked into it (as you do), only to find that THE last ('man standing') supplier, ONLY does "Quarterly" on Direct-Debit.

Bollocks to that, thinks I...... (my outlook is/was the same as yours)

Alas, the "robbers" that I'm with (UK's largest & most famous, IIRC), have now gone monthly only - No option.

I've ravaged them several times already - As I'm a "bit sharp" with the Ombudsman - Have won 2 x cases so far.


Quite rewarding when the HUGE large, big "smug B'strds" DON'T listen to your repeated pleas**** (rather likie a minnow)

All I asked for was a sodding 'paper-bill' - The self-same type I've had from them, for the last 20+ years....

**** Only then (months later), to find that YOU'VE taken them to the Ombudsman - "Whoops" !!!!!!


Then & only then, do they "fall over backwards" to help you - And beg you not to "up the ante" (persue the case).

Ignorant B'strds - If only they'd listened AND sent me the paper-bill, I wouldn't be "ragging them".


I'm quite savage with them & the last time (2021, pre-"name-change"), they paid £200.00 of my bills, for nothing (thanks you deaf-mugs !)


Having the "energy supplier Ombudsman" on your side AND on their case, is a wonderful sight to behold.

Just do what I did - screenshot everything & keep all your paperwork & records (as I did) - worked a treat !

However, Quaterly payments now (sadly), rather do seem like a thing of the past, which, disappoints me bitterly.

Sign of the times.....Alas.

.


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## Alex321 (30 Apr 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> It's quite simple. You pay for each unit used and it's the same price per unit what ever way you pay.
> They just like DD as they can profit from the overpayment investment.
> When you atchually look deep it's no saving



Most suppliers do give a discount for DD.

I must admit, regardless of discount, I would also personally hate to do it your way. Much prefer to have known monthly bills than variable ones quarterly.


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## Alex321 (30 Apr 2022)

If you have solar panels, or any other home generation system, and want to export energy to the grid, then you need a smart meter.

Otherwise, it has made no noticeable difference to us - we'd never had one in our old house, but when we moved 2 years ago, there was already one installed here.


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## welsh dragon (30 Apr 2022)

Bulb have an excellent ap. Every 3 months I take meter reading and it's sorted. They even remind me to do it. Simple and easy.


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## PaulSB (1 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> It's quite simple. You pay for each unit used and it's the same price per unit what ever way you pay.
> They just like DD as they can profit from the overpayment investment.
> When you atchually look deep it's no saving



This doesn't mirror my experience. I've been with more than one supplier where the unit price was the same but for direct debit payments there was an annual discount of £25 per fuel.

On an annual bill of £1000 this is a 5% discount. Yes, the supplier has one's money for a few months but show me where one can earn 5% interest for immediate access cash? 

Personally I'm happy with the security of knowing the bill is always covered.


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## dave r (1 May 2022)

I've always refused to have a smart metre, I pay by direct debit, once a month they E-mail me for my metre readings, I upload them to their website and they E-Mail me the bill. In the summer when my usage is low I build up money in my account and it helps me pay the big winter bills, I'm happy with that, and if I need cash unexpectantly I can always draw some cash out of the account.


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## ebikeerwidnes (1 May 2022)

Someone mentioned that they stop working when you switch suppliers

This used to be true - happened to mine - but the new ones should not have a problem.
The old ones that 'went dumb' should be starting to work again as software changes are pushed out. If you have an old dumb one then contact your supplier and find out when they are going to update or replace it - they have to do so but I'm not sure what the deadline is!


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## welsh dragon (1 May 2022)

I also pay a bit more in the summer so that I will have leeway for the winter months when useage is heavier.


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## MrGrumpy (1 May 2022)

welsh dragon said:


> I also pay a bit more in the summer so that I will have leeway for the winter months when useage is heavier.



Most of us do, it irons out the peaks and troughs . I wonder if the money we pay in as customers for bills . Sits in account not accruing interest ?


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## si_c (1 May 2022)

PaulSB said:


> This doesn't mirror my experience. I've been with more than one supplier where the unit price was the same but for direct debit payments there was an annual discount of £25 per fuel.
> 
> On an annual bill of £1000 this is a 5% discount. Yes, the supplier has one's money for a few months but show me where one can earn 5% interest for immediate access cash?
> 
> Personally I'm happy with the security of knowing the bill is always covered.



A further thought I'd had about DD payments is that for a lot of people they make a lot of sense, not least because it's a predictable payment, there was a long time when I was considerably less well off and if I'd had to settle a winter bill without levelling the payments over a year it would have put me in a financial hole. And that was before the most recent crippling rises in fuel cost.

The benefit here for companies I would assume is that they don't get so many unpaid bills.


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## PaulSB (1 May 2022)

si_c said:


> A further thought I'd had about DD payments is that for a lot of people they make a lot of sense, not least because it's a predictable payment, there was a long time when I was considerably less well off and if I'd had to settle a winter bill without levelling the payments over a year it would have put me in a financial hole. And that was before the most recent crippling rises in fuel cost.
> 
> The benefit here for companies I would assume is that they don't get so many unpaid bills.



This is why we started to use DD perhaps 40 years ago. Young, first house, no money and a few years later three kids. Basically a budget was always needed for perhaps 25 years. Now we're retired and on a limited income a budget is again necessary.


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## presta (1 May 2022)

When I was a teenager in the '70s there was something on a TV consumer program that made my father turn to me and say "Let that be a lesson to you, never give anyone the authority to draw money directly from your bank account". He never did, and for 30-odd years I didn't either, until I got broadband in 2012, when DD was the only option with Plusnet. I then gave in and switched to DD for fuel in 2016. They're still the only ones I have, and given the choice I'd still prefer cheque.


dave r said:


> once a month they E-mail me for my metre readings


Shell email me for readings (I've just put them in this morning), but the debits are still fixed at the same amount every month.


si_c said:


> it's a predictable payment, there was a long time when I was considerably less well off and if I'd had to settle a winter bill without levelling the payments over a year it would have put me in a financial hole


This is why DDs overcharge slightly, so you don't get hit with a bill you can't pay if you use a bit more than you predicted.


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## stephec (1 May 2022)

Cheers everyone, I wondered if there was anything else other than being able to see exactly what I'm using, and being a tight northerner I don't need advising on how to save money, so I think it's a no from me.


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## stephec (1 May 2022)

On the subject of direct debit, does anyone claim the money back when they're in credit? 

British Gas used to up our payments and we once got to about £150 in credit so I rang them up and asked for it back. I got the expected replies about it evening out over winter, blah blah blah, but still demand my money back, and surprise surprise, we never went too far into the red.


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## Chromatic (1 May 2022)

stephec said:


> On the subject of direct debit, does anyone claim the money back when they're in credit?
> 
> British Gas used to up our payments and we once got to about £150 in credit so I rang them up and asked for it back. I got the expected replies about it evening out over winter, blah blah blah, but still demand my money back, and surprise surprise, we never went too far into the red.



In the past I've had credit balances repayed back into my account without asking for them.


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## a.twiddler (1 May 2022)

We were fortunate when we changed supplier from Igloo energy when our deal expired. They refunded our surplus literally days before they went bust as we had started with another supplier that month. If it had been a few days later, we might never have seen our surplus again.


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## CXRAndy (1 May 2022)

Having a smart meter allowed us to access 5p per kWatt during the night. There are no downsides to a Smets 2 meter. Upsides are you can easily see usage, make adjustments to use and your payments are not excessive because they are monthly and accurate


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## presta (16 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> It's quite simple. You pay for each unit used and it's the same price per unit what ever way you pay.
> They just like DD as they can profit from the overpayment investment.
> When you atchually look deep it's no saving



I just noticed this whilst I was reading my bill:


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## ChrisKz (16 May 2022)

I have a smart meter now for probably 5 years . I know what I use and the cost , also have a wifi meter indoors so that gain I can see what I use each hour etc ( Not that I'm that bothered ) but its nice to be in control as such . At least I cannot get overcharged by human error . I have DD set up for every month as don't fancy quarterly high bills every year,


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 May 2022)

Another point is that if you want solar panels or other micro generation stuff then you need to have a working smart meter to be able to get the Smart Export Guarantee (or whatever it is called this week!)


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## fossyant (19 May 2022)

stephec said:


> On the subject of direct debit, does anyone claim the money back when they're in credit?
> 
> British Gas used to up our payments and we once got to about £150 in credit so I rang them up and asked for it back. I got the expected replies about it evening out over winter, blah blah blah, but still demand my money back, and surprise surprise, we never went too far into the red.



Scottish Power automatically pay you back if there is too much - I ended up with £150 back just before winter (didn't want it back as as I knew my bills would go up).

I'm currently £350 in credit which will probably hit £500 this month as the cheeky buggers will only let me reduce my DD very slightly. We've really cut down on electricity use so have halved the bills even with the price rise, but their 'algorithm' still thinks I'll be using loads of electricity, and I'm overpaying. I'm taking readings weekly and popping it into a spreadsheet. I give them monthly readings, then adjust my DD back down. I still need to take it down by £100 a month to be the correct amount.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 May 2022)

presta said:


> I just noticed this whilst I was reading my bill:
> View attachment 644975



But you’ve just paid £4.85 (including VAT) gas standing charge for 33 days. If you pro rata that to 365 days, that comes to £53.66. Which is more than a £48 per year standing charge for gas. Thus your annual gas standing charge would be £5.66 cheaper if you come off direct debit.


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## Tom... (19 May 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But you’ve just paid £4.85 (including VAT) gas standing charge for 33 days. If you pro rata that to 365 days, that comes to £53.66. Which is more than a £48 per year standing charge for gas. Thus your annual gas standing charge would be £5.66 cheaper if you come off direct debit.



"Will *go up* by up to £48", not "Will be £48 instead"


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## Ming the Merciless (19 May 2022)

If you have high usage then a higher standing charge but lower usage rate is what you might want to be looking for. If you have low usage then a lower standing charge but with higher usage rates might suit better.

It is why basic maths is important.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 May 2022)

Tom... said:


> "Will *go up* by up to £48", not "Will be £48 instead



Good spot!


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