# Screamer = Broken wing-mirror = face-kicking



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

I was cycling along, 22mph, tucked in, dark, when some oiks came in too close, too fast and too leary and screamed out of the car. Naturally it made me jump. The jump made me wobble. The wobble took me into the kerb.

You can imagine my anger.

So I dropped a couple of gears put my back into it and caught up with them. They weren't prepared to engage in a disucssion with me. So I smashed the wing-mirror off. Cycle rage!!!

I sped off but they pursed me and caught me. The three ***** jumped out of the car and onto me. Gave me a bit of kicking. Swollen face, cut on the nose, black eyes and few bruses on the rest of the body.

F*ckers. I know I shouldn't have damaged the car, but sometime these people make me so angry. This time the red mist was stronger than anything else.

No moral to this story, just another tale the from the cycling gutter.

Hope you're all well


----------



## gaz (3 Feb 2010)

Ouch sounds bad, at least your okish.


----------



## Happiness Stan (3 Feb 2010)

Sorry to hear your story. I'm sure in hindsight you'd have done things differently, but having sinned myself, I can't really throw stones. 

Just be careful, there are some mad bastards out there and it could have been worse. 

I always try to think of what Richie Pryor said: "Your pride will heal a lot faster than a broken jaw"


----------



## skudupnorth (3 Feb 2010)

Kin Ell !!! hope you are ok.It is so tempting to do what you did but it's just not worth it especially with so many nutters out there.Deep breath and hope they end up in a ditch one day...on their roof...not wearing seat belts...ect,ect


----------



## mr_cellophane (3 Feb 2010)

Moral
Never engage with a motorist unless you have a narrow/one-way escape route.


----------



## tightwad (3 Feb 2010)

Good man, but next time don't expect 3 scrotes to take you damaging their car without them having a go back. Take evasive action rather than continuing in the same direction, on the pavement, turn round, footpaths etc. If the escape routes aren't there don't dish it out when outnumbered.


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

mr_cellophane said:


> Moral
> Never engage with a motorist unless you have a narrow/one-way escape route.



I did, But some fecker pulled in to it and a last minute detour was ineveitable - the only problem it was up hill and away from the public gaze !!! DOH!


----------



## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2010)

Hope you heal fast, get well soon.


----------



## bad boy (3 Feb 2010)

Blimey garilla thats one hell of a commute .

I hope your ok mate, I have had similar red mist moments I just try and chill now to be honest.

Might wanna think about altering your journey for a few weeks or something, wouldn't want them coming back asking for recompense or something worse.


----------



## ComedyPilot (3 Feb 2010)

Don't get involved, you are worth more than that.


----------



## andrew-the-tortoise (3 Feb 2010)

No one deserves GBH over a wing mirror; the violent ****'s will live by the fist and die by the fist! 

Hope you injuries heal quick.

I once chased after some local tossers in similar incident; but it took me so long to catch them I had calmed down by the time I caught up! so just made a mental note


----------



## Sheffield_Tiger (3 Feb 2010)

Don't forget those car stickers of the 80s that thankfully seem to be seen rarer these days

"Toucha my Car, I Smasha your Face"

The stickers seem to have disappeared but the attitude remains for many.


----------



## cyberknight (3 Feb 2010)

Ouch !! hope your ok soon.

It maybe hard as you did damage their vehicle but did you get reg etc ? you may face charges for damaging their vehicle but i think assault will outweigh any charges you may face.


----------



## XmisterIS (3 Feb 2010)

Moral - Don't rise to it!

When I get the chavs shouting at me as they go past, I ignore it.

Why?

Because I know they're going home to their council estate bedsit, whereas I'm going home to a spacious, comfortable, well furnished and pleasantly located three-bed detatched house which I have all to myself, or just my girlfriend and I.

Snobbish?

Yep, and I don't care.


----------



## cyberknight (3 Feb 2010)

XmisterIS said:


> Moral - Don't rise to it!
> 
> When I get the chavs shouting at me as they go past, I ignore it.
> 
> ...


Sorry thing is due to the economy i am having to sell said cushy house and at this rate will be on the list for said bedsit thanks for the reminder


----------



## DJ (3 Feb 2010)

Ow, that sounds painfull, I learnt not to damage peoples cars years ago, when I very nearly got a kicking for it too, now I find talking to them a lot more productive or screaming abuse if I am worked up, I have seen off a few people in this way.

If any one is caught in a situation were you are out numbered and are in for a kicking then you have to roll up in to a ball and wrap your arms around your head, keep your legs firmly together and pull your knees up to your chest, that way they can't get you in any of the really soft parts! I saw a guy do this once in a fight outside a night club, then once his attackers had all finished he got up and wacked one of them hard on the nose!!! Blood went everywhere.


----------



## automatic_jon (3 Feb 2010)

Yes, I had some chav-y children on bicycle shaped objects shouting abuse at me, questioning my parentage and the weird shape of my bike (drop bar, Halfords sourced racer) while they cycled along side me. I just accelerated until they couldn't keep up, even with a clear pavement as I dealing with the traffic on the A3. They looked somewhat surprised when I looked back over my shoulder at them.


----------



## XmisterIS (3 Feb 2010)

cyberknight said:


> Sorry thing is due to the economy i am having to sell said cushy house and at this rate will be on the list for said bedsit thanks for the reminder



Sorry to hear that!

But remember life is what you make it ... not what it makes you!

PMA and all that ... seriously, it works!


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

Jeez, worst nightmare, one of those red mist moments will probably do for me one day too. If you see the car again report them, criminal damage versus GBH. Have you considered the Police for this? In the meantime, take it easy and don't let it alter your perspective on things.

Wot about the bike?


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Good, you got what you deserved. Two wrongs don't make a right.



You think. A broken wing mirror, after being provoked, versus a kicking from three goons, I wouldn't like to live in your world.


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

Mud-guard fixing snapped on back. Buckled both wheels, but I can true them Front light appears not to work !?!


----------



## al78 (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Make a mistake and get your car damaged WTF?



It was not a mistake it was deliberate intimidation. Imagine if the OP had lost control as a result and gone under the wheels of another vehicle.

It was that deliberate, malicious act that caused him to lose it, so please don't try to imply that the damage to the car was unprovoked, although I don't think he should have done that.


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

Read the OP Lee, they didn't make a mistake.

"I was cycling along, 22mph, tucked in, dark, when some oiks came in too close, too fast and too leary a*nd screamed out of the car. Naturally it made me jump. The jump made me wobble. The wobble took me into the kerb."*

I don't know what you're angry about but this thread is not your personal springboard to release some of it. Now calm down and try a considered response.


----------



## gaz (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Deliberate intimidation=mistake



Wrong!


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

Firstly, I'm not complaining about getting a kicking. Secondly, I accept I shouldn't have retaliated with violence against their car.

But I will tell you where your world and mine definitately differs. You think they made mistake when the driver came within inches of me at high speed so his mates could scream out of the window with the likelihood that I would come off. I think it was intentional.


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> What I'm angry about is the fact that the OP has deliberately caused some damage to another persons car, when the provocation caused by the chavs didn't merit that level of damage imo.
> 
> He posts this story and then has the gusto to say that there is 'no moral to the story' What a load of bollox.
> 
> If you can't control your anger then don't go out riding - simple.



Or in fact go on the internet and post or are you practising for the World 'argument in an empty room' championships.

Garilla, in fact no one, is offering a justification.

"F*ckers. I know I shouldn't have damaged the car, but sometime these people make me so angry. This time the red mist was stronger than anything else."


----------



## marinyork (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Bollox, if the OP thinks he can get away with ripping a wing mirror off then I wouldn't like to live in his 'world'. Some people on here make me laugh get all sanctomonious on their stupid f***ing high horses slaying the car driver and asking if Gaz is alright when the idiot ripped off the wing mirror. I'm glad people of Gaz's mentality are not out on the road, I really am what a nasty place it would be. Make a mistake and get your car damaged WTF?
> 
> You go on about how a wing mirror being ripped off is compared to getting a kick in Crackle, but how the hell do you compare a couple of chavs driving a car like a couple of knobs to the OP then causing criminal damage and ripping the wing mirror off. My 'world', you go on about my 'world', at least I'm not up there in the clouds.



The car injured someone else and left the scene of the accident. Occupants then assaulted them. They should be doing time for whatever was done in response, it's as simple as.


----------



## 4F (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> That's bollox, if a car comes close to you like that and you wobble and almost come off, this just shows you have no control over your bike.



Blazed, stop it


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

Lee has never had a red mist moment, he isn't having one now.


----------



## gaz (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> er, right.



You think it was a mistake that someone passed close enough for his makes to shout out the window and take a cyclist by surprise so that they had a wobble. 
I don't think you should be commenting on someone else's 'world' when your's isn't exactly squeaky clean.


----------



## 4F (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Hindsight is a fantastic thing, yes indeed. That quote above and the one about 'no moral' just a feeble attempt by the OP to appear apologetic for what was:
> 
> a) Poor awareness to traffic around him which lead:-
> 
> ...



Oh come off it Lee A and B are bollox. C is where he made a mistake. If you are going to dish out retribution then make sure you have an escape route and avoid the route in question for the next couple of weeks.


----------



## marinyork (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> How can the car injure the OP when the car did not even touch him?? For an assualt to take place this must be some sort of pnysical contact. Of course there was a case of criminal damage here, the OP ripping the wing mirror off.



We've done this argument before even with cyclists. It's either the same rule or it isn't. Rather than someone being startled it is generally regarded as the fault of the car with those sort of pranks. I also have to say it's a bit silly saying control things. Where do you draw the line with cars deliberately trying to squeeze you off the road or the lamborghini gallardo that overtook me very closely at something like 80-100mph and blew me off the road?

The car is responsible for injuring another cyclist and they just left. I know it's fashionable not to say this any more such as the high profile cases where cyclists were killed and the courts ignored it, but they should stop and make sure they are all right. What if they'd hit their head on the kerb and died? I mean for crying out loud. The OP did was kicked by 3 people and they have injuries, that is assault and it much more serious than breaking someone's wing mirror.

(a) and ( are debatable, (c) is the only valid point.


----------



## 4F (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> How, if the OP is going along a dark road (as mentioned in the OP) then how did he not notice the car behind him? You telling me he did not see the head lights or notice his shadow on the road?



I am sure he did notice the lights. What he did not anticipate was that the car was going to pass him within a few cms whilst his mates screamed out of the window. 

I have had done this to myself and jumped out of my skin so to say he had poor bike control skills is way off the mark.


----------



## mr_hippo (3 Feb 2010)

Chav cyclist smashes wing mirror on a car containing 3 other chavs and then gets a good beating - so what?


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> How, if the OP is going along a dark road (as mentioned in the OP) then how did he not notice the car behind him? You telling me he did not see the head lights or notice his shadow on the road?



I knew there were cars behind. And I was positioned accordingly, its 6pm it was dark, I'm well lit up. I'm a on a good stretch of road. Cars are passing and i'm part of fluid and dynamic flow of traffic.

What I didn't expect, and there is no way of predicting this, is that a car would speed past, taking a deliberate line into me and that the passengers would scream. 

Even if they only wanted to startle me, it was dangerous to do so even if not to themselves. If that was their intent they were sucessful. May be you're not normal and you don't have the 'startle' reaction that is ordinary to human beings and other mammals. My refleces worked as expected.


----------



## marinyork (3 Feb 2010)

Well I hope you're all right and it doesn't take too long to heal up, all good for when the good weather returns.


----------



## gaz (3 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> How is my world not squeaky clean? You need to look up the definition of 'mistake'



lol you amuse me... 
I don't understand why you continue to argue about this, no one here is agreeing with the OP's actions against the car. But how can you call a close overtake so lads can scream at the cyclist a mistake?



Dictionary said:


> mistake
> noun
> an action or judgment that is misguided


----------



## Gerry Attrick (3 Feb 2010)

What was the purpose of the OP?


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

Gerry Attrick said:


> What was the purpose of the OP?



To talk about what happened, perfectly natural given the circumstances.


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

Gerry Attrick said:


> What was the purpose of the OP?




I was gloating that I got my face kicked in.


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

Where did it happen, Smithdown Rd way?


----------



## garrilla (3 Feb 2010)

Crackle said:


> Where did it happen, Smithdown Rd way?



By the technology park


----------



## Crackle (3 Feb 2010)

garrilla said:


> By the technology park



I know it. Used to use the road behind the technology park occasionally when there was roadworks on Edge Lane and I didn't fancy holding up all the traffic squeezed into one lane for a mile or so.


----------



## gb155 (3 Feb 2010)

Ouch, heal up man


----------



## Cubist (3 Feb 2010)

Gerry Attrick said:


> What was the purpose of the OP?


I would sincerely hope as a salutory lesson to all of us to let these things wash over us. It's very difficult, and I suffer red mist as much as the next guy, but to take on a carload of self-gratification artists was ill advised. Damaging the car was a criminal act, and you took a beating for it. What would you have done if they had reported it to the police and you found yourself being interviewed for it?


----------



## Crankarm (3 Feb 2010)

Ouch! 

Moral of the story, don't post your story on here where there is any indication that you were at fault. Certainly don't make a public confession  as you are more then likely setting yourself up for a further metaphorical kicking.

If you step outside the law you should be prepared for others to do so. In this case although you appear to have got off "lightly" with superficial injuries, you could have been very seriously assaulted or killed. The attack must have been terrifying. I should imagine clinging to life in a hospital bed all because an ill judged moment of madness is grim. How do you feel about your Mum and Dad, wife and kids looking at you with more tubes and wires going into you than a telephone exchange? It becomes a little senseless when you think how fragile life is. 

Have you been to hospital or to your doctor to get checked out?

I'm sure this is a painful lesson for you. Hope you heal quickly. But next time look to see how many are in the car . Maybe it would be a good idea to carry a panic alarm just in case they see you again and mobile at the ready to dial 999. As I'm sure they won't settle at just this gentle rough justice once they find out how much a new mirror costs - if indeed you did actually break it, as most are designed to detach if knocked substantially.

This cyclist allegedly did EXACTLY what you did and he paid with his life.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...maging-wing-mirror-court-told-92746-23432533/


If you live by the sword be prepared to die by the sword .


----------



## Tharg2007 (3 Feb 2010)

unlucky garilla, next time have a d lock handy, or a stinger


----------



## marinyork (3 Feb 2010)

Crankarm said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Moral of the story, don't post your story on here where there is any indication that you were at fault. Certainly don't make a public confession  as you are more then likely setting yourself up for a further metaphorical kicking.



Car criminal acts 3 v cyclist 1. Some of the rest is probably true though, especially in commuting .


----------



## Crankarm (4 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> Car criminal acts 3 v cyclist 1. Some of the rest is probably true though, especially in commuting .



Huh .............?


----------



## marinyork (4 Feb 2010)

Crankarm said:


> Huh .............?



Telling such a tale on commuting is probably not a good idea!


----------



## Crankarm (4 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> Telling such a tale on commuting is probably not a good idea!



An understatement if ever I read one MY .

Probably not good to tell on any forum ............

Well it might serve some good in that it reminds all cyclists on here that retaliatory action against motons what ever the provocation can have very frightening and tragic consequences ......

*Just in case you haven't yet, I would recommend re-reading this terrible incident below which was on here about this time last year. Sobering stuff.*

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...maging-wing-mirror-court-told-92746-23432533/


----------



## gb155 (4 Feb 2010)

Crankarm said:


> An understatement if ever I read one MY .
> 
> Probably not good to tell on any forum ............
> 
> ...



Last night I was left hooked by WVM, It was snowing a blizzard, I was well lit up, on my old MTB doing 14Mph, The incident was so bad I ended up going into thh side road he went into, otherwise I would have been under his wheels, it was scary, I yelled out, he ignored me, he then went into a car park.........I left it, I could have made a big deal or booted his van but come-on peeps, life is worth more than that !


----------



## BentMikey (4 Feb 2010)

I have quite some sympathy for garilla - remember my egging incident, and the water revenge? That could easily have gone the same way. A better and more mature way would have been video camera and go to the police.


----------



## thomas (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Good, you got what you deserved. Two wrongs don't make a right.



No one deserves to be assaulted and beaten. However, I can understand why the OP got assaulted. Still. A wing mirror after acting the tw&t doesn't deserve physical abuse.

I've never hit a car out of just pure anger, though I have punched and slapped cars that came past too close. Once because a massive bus was pulling in on me and I didn't fancy getting injured that day, most just because it was a gut reaction to try and get them away from me. A couple times it didn't end up well, once a guy got out of his van, but thankfully there was an escape route. Another time the guy stopped and we just had a chat.

I think a motorist would have to do a lot to get me to 'vandalise' their car, but it would certainly be possible. My red mist generally involves a load of incomprehensible screaming 

I know someone who had a similar situation, car came along side and passenger started pushing him along. Obviously, not funny if you're not expecting it. When he caught the car up at the lights he kicked it and the driver got out and punched him. The guy this story involves is the kind of person that if he actually kicked the car it was probably warranted as he's incredibly patient and relaxed as a cyclist. He left it as, he shouldn't of kicked the car so didn't do anything about being punched.

garrilla, hope you get better! Sounds very nasty! You definitely didn't deserve the abuse or the reaction for the wing mirror. Obviously, hitting the wing mirror wasn't really a good idea as you know, but when under the red mist I can understand. Doesn't really make it right, but hey-ho. Get better and hopefully you won't encounter them again. Hopefully they've also learnt their lesson not to piss cyclists off, even if they maybe ended up winning in their mind.


----------



## Origamist (4 Feb 2010)

I hope you heal up quickly and are back on the bike soon, garilla.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (4 Feb 2010)

at what level of financial loss does physical retribution ever become justified I wonder?

new door mirror for my missus' car, after it was damaged by an errant football, was over £250.... 

......the reel of tape I bodged it with was less than £1


----------



## Origamist (4 Feb 2010)

GregCollins said:


> at what level of financial loss does physical retribution ever become justified I wonder?



Where I grew up, spilling a fellow drinker's pint was usually the tipping point - so a few pence...


----------



## Twenty Inch (4 Feb 2010)

Lee is back on the ignore list, nasty trolling little pillock.

Garilla, sorry about that. I've snapped off a wing mirror in the past in a very similar situation. My only advice would be that if you are going to get into a situation where you might have to mix it, be prepared to use extreme violence. Even three chavs would have backed down if you were swinging your bike at their heads.

Far better of course not to get involved in the first place. I don't snap wing mirrors or yell now, I try to find more reasons to say or wave "thanks" to motorists than to yell at them.


----------



## benborp (4 Feb 2010)

I've written a car off.


----------



## trustysteed (4 Feb 2010)

Did you get the number plate of the car? That's the most important thing.

If you did, make sure you take photos of your injuries as soon as posisble. Then go to the police station and hand in a formal report of the entire incident. Be completely frank about your actions.

You may have to pay a fine for criminal damage but that will pale into insignificance against the convictions for assaultactuall bodily harm that will go against the three chavs and which will hopefully fuck their lives up more. 

Got to be worth a go, hey?


----------



## benborp (4 Feb 2010)

It may not be worth a go at all. Considering how some cyclists are treated when completely without fault.


----------



## Tharg2007 (4 Feb 2010)

i wouldnt report it, you will get a conviction for criminal damage, they, who probably already have criminal records, will be let of with a fine or caution because of 'provocation'.


----------



## Twenty Inch (4 Feb 2010)

Tharg2007 said:


> i wouldnt report it, you will get a conviction for criminal damage, they, who probably already have criminal records, will be let of with a fine or caution because of 'provocation'.



+1. The coppers will go after the nice law-abiding middle-class chap who admitted a crime, and not bother with three chavvy scrotes who will lie, give them the run-around, and not turn up to the court. Even a caution can have a serious effect on your professional and personal life.


----------



## swee'pea99 (4 Feb 2010)

...but I disagree about the inadvisability of posting it hereabouts - a cautionary tale for all of us to bear in mind methinks. So thanks for that. And get well soon.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

Lee, what are you blabbering on about mistakes for? Your picking at semantics and bordering on trolling. You could say that it was a mistake for the yobs to do what they did. Their mistake was the choice they made (although they are unlikely to see it that way), but to suggest that the incident itself was a mistake is totally wrong. It was an intentional act. Going by your logic you could say that pre-meditated murder was a mistake.


As for the OP. Assault is certainly the greater evil here, by a long way. However, there was some provocation and criminal damage is a big no-no. 

Good for you for posting it here. Hopefully others (including me) will learn from your mistake. I hope you heal soon.


----------



## trustysteed (4 Feb 2010)

Tharg2007 said:


> i wouldnt report it, you will get a conviction for criminal damage, they, who probably already have criminal records, will be let of with a fine or caution because of 'provocation'.



good point. i didnt fully think through the 'lawless chav scum always trumps the average citizen in the british justice system' situation.


----------



## irc (4 Feb 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> +1. The coppers will go after the nice law-abiding middle-class chap who admitted a crime, and not bother with three chavvy scrotes who will lie, give them the run-around, and not turn up to the court. Even a caution can have a serious effect on your professional and personal life.



+2 For not reporting it.

My son made a mistake when he was 16 and got a criminal record for a minor victimless crime resulting in a fine. As he is an adult ( in Scotland) this means he will have to declare it for the rest of his .life when applying for any job that involves contact with children (teacher, police, prison, fire service etc) as the statute of limitations doesn't apply there. 

He will have to apply for a visa if he wanted to go to the USA. No idea if he would get in.

Applying for house insurance I had to declare it as there was question about any occupants with criminal charges/convictions.

He had never had any contact with the police before or since but will be affected for the rest of his life.

For chavs with existing criminal records an assault conviction if it got to that is nothing. A fine paid at £2 per week ouit their giro. For anyone without a criminal record who works for a living and owns a house a criminal record for even a minor crime has long term consequences.

If it was me I'd be writing it off to experience.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (4 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> Where I grew up, spilling a fellow drinker's pint was usually the tipping point - so a few pence...



And I thought where I grew up was rough. There it only kicked off if you didn't replace said pint.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Feb 2010)

Garilla, you did the wrong thing !


You should have got the car details, traced it and then done a number on it, you get satisfaction and they dotn have a clue, they probally upset many people so wont trace it back to you.

Myself and My cousin stopped at a chippy back in about 1990, we took a kicking off four scrotes in a Mini, for no toerh reason than the fact I had a better car (Golf GTI), that I had restored it myself and it only cost £1500, saved from working nights in a pub did not matter, my shiny car offended them and we got a kicking, as did a friend who happened to be driving past and stopped to ask if we were ok, he got punched int he face.

I cahsed the car when they scarpered and could have killed them, bigger, powerful car versus a mini with four lads in it, I was all over them but I fought the red mist and let them get away but being daft they went to near where they lived, we simply kept our eyes peeled (from another car), followed them, got the address and went back and made sure the car didnt go again, it was a shed anyway.

The other time I got a pasting outside a pub, by someone I knew for simply talking to a girl he knew when he was full of beer and testosterone, he got his car re-arranged a bit by a couple of mates, a nice gesture, I didnt ask them to.

Dont get mad, get even and sometimes you have to accept you may never get back at them but the time you do, its so satisfying.

Being a cyclist does not mean you have to be a pussy, but you need to know when the odds are stacked against you.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> Garilla, you did the wrong thing !
> 
> 
> You should have got the car details, traced it and then done a number on it, you get satisfaction and they dotn have a clue, they probally upset many people so wont trace it back to you.
> ...



Advice that is best ignored IMO.


----------



## gaz (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Advice that is best ignored IMO.


true that, crap like that gets you stabbed in my neck of the woods.


----------



## gaz (4 Feb 2010)

Hardly anyone has said that the OP did nothing wrong. hell even he said he did something wrong. and i'm sure looking back on it he won't do it again.

But what a fair few people are commenting on is YOU saying the chavs made a mistake by passing to close and screaming. thats not a mistake.


----------



## gaz (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Yes it is.


well i would hate to live in your 'world'


----------



## gaz (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Going by your logic you could say that pre-meditated murder was a mistake.


See above lee..


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (4 Feb 2010)

So taking the wing mirror off must also be a "mistake"... does the pasting count as one too, or is that an "accident" as it was avoidable?


----------



## thegrumpybiker (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Why not? So it is ok to rip off someones wing mirror off and not be punished in way or the other



Yeah, shame on Gorilla for reacting so angrily to HAVING HIS LIFE ENDANGERED BY A CARLOAD OF C*NTS. 
The poor little "cheeky monkeys" will have to go to all the trouble of clicking the wing mirror back into place, just for playing a "little prank". Then they'll have to soak their bruised knuckles in cold water to take the swelling down.
Poor little lambs.


----------



## Twenty Inch (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Why not? So it is ok to rip off someones wing mirror off and not be punished in way or the other
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well, I'd expect nothing less from someone who has done this type of thing as well...



Oh well, at least I had the front (as Garilla did) to get physically involved, instead of winding people up through the safety of the internet. Now where's that ignore list?


----------



## Shaun (4 Feb 2010)

Can we not get into personal insults please or I'll simply lock the thread.

I think the OP should stand as a note of caution to all of us - be careful how far you go when the red mist descends.

We've probably all experienced the same thing; car passes dangerously close whilst occupants shout at you or slap you or throw something at you.

They get a great kick out of it, and you get frightened half to death and end up with your heart beating it's way through your rib cage and possibly being forced into the roadside.

How you handle it from there is up to each individual, but personally I wouldn't advocate 'getting involved' other than verbally, and even then, not so much that you provoke a further, more harmful reaction from them.

Noting the registration number and reporting it is definitely useful because if enough people do it, they'll get a visit, but it's not something you naturally stop to think and do when at the same time you're trying to avoid a face-plant!!

Equally I don't think you're a _pussy_ if you leave it and let them get away with it - as the OP's lesson shows us - _not_ being a pussy can possibly get you a good kicking.

Just take the OP for what it is - a lesson.

Cheers,
Shaun


----------



## Twenty Inch (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> Bollox! Anytime you want come down south Twenty and discuss this thread over a pint, let me know.


----------



## 4F (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> I'm not trolling at all



I have to say I am not convinced that you are not trolling Lee


----------



## Muddyfox (4 Feb 2010)

mr_hippo said:


> Chav cyclist smashes wing mirror on a car containing 3 other chavs and then gets a good beating - so what?



What a W*nker



Twenty Inch said:


> My only advice would be that if you are going to get into a situation where you might have to mix it, be prepared to use extreme violence. *Even three chavs would have backed down if you were swinging your bike at their heads*.



This is very Bad advice Twenty ... Unless you take out all 3 in one swing your going to get a serious kicking 



User3143 said:


> mis⋅take  /mɪˈsteɪk/
> 
> Show Spelled Pronunciation [mi-steyk]
> 
> ...



Lee this is just a play on words .. the people in the car made a concious decision to do what they did and if your going to argue that shouting out of the car window was a mistake/error in judgement then you have to grant Garrila the same for breaking off the mirror ... i dont condone the criminal damage but 3 on to 1 is way out of order 

Simon


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

I'll just add one piece of advice to this thread.... 


Get a camera. Not to become a celebrity like me of course , but as a method of restraint. Knowing I have the incident on film means that I don't get anywhere near as worked up as I would otherwise. I know I'll have a record of it, their faces, their number plate etc that I can pass on to the police. No need to cause any damage.


----------



## Cab (4 Feb 2010)

Actually, having the camera on _is_ a very calming influence. It isn't that you know that you'd be recording your own bad behaviour, its that you know that you've got evidence of what the other guy has done wrong, you've got a better chance of getting a positive resolution of some kind using camera footage than your voice or even your fists.

I would assume that no one would excuse the 'chavs' for their dangerous behaviour that started this any more than we'd excuse retaliation (breaking wing mirror) or the beating that resulted; we could discuss at length whether breaking the wing mirror is fair in response to being driven into the kerb, but I'm sure that no one would think that further escalation to physical violence was justified.

Live and learn, but thats one hell of a harsh way to learn a lesson, like.


----------



## skrx (4 Feb 2010)

User3143 said:


> no amount of chavs shouting abuse from a car can never give rise to someone causing criminal damage to a car - anyone else that says otherwise is an idiot.



No amount of breaking wing mirrors should result in serious physical assault.



User3143 said:


> Good, you got what you deserved. Two wrongs don't make a right.



If we're going for that kind of "justice", perhaps what he "deserved" was them kicking in one of the bicycle wheels, or smashing his lights.


----------



## Crackle (4 Feb 2010)

Look this happened in Liverpool, they're not Chavs they're Scallies.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Advice that is best ignored IMO.




Yep, I agree, in your case there wouldnt be an intact car left in Glasgow 

I am quite placid really, that was in my younger days but if someone amuses themselves by endangering me, its an option, hit them where it hurts, reasoning with scum like that just doesnt work.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> Yep, I agree, in your case there wouldnt be an intact car left in Glasgow
> 
> I am quite placid really, that was in my younger days but if someone amuses themselves by endangering me, its an option, hit them where it hurts, reasoning with scum like that just doesnt work.




Sorry. I don't agree that it's an option. Mutal respect, not mutal destruction.


----------



## thegrumpybiker (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Mutal respect, not mutal destruction.



I don't get what you mean by mutual respect. When some dickhead endangers your life for a bit of fun, where's the respect coming from?


----------



## J4CKO (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Sorry. I don't agree that it's an option. Mutal respect, not mutal destruction.




Yes, most of the time thats how I work, however I don't see where mutual respect has been shown here, contempt, cruelty, endangerment, aggression etc but Garilla was not offered a basic level of respect, treated as a play thing by idiots who were hoping to see him injured or at least scared, difficult to respect them, he reacted and then came off worse.

You get your own back in your own way with your videos and there are many different options to pursue before I get to the stage of damaging something or somebody but when you have taken a battering for no reason other than having a nice car (which also came in for some stick) then you do want to get some revenge, their car was worthless anyway.

The reason idiots like this behave as they do, they see cyclists as a soft touch, which we are generally, sometimes thinking their could be ramifications might help.

I know you arent going to agree with me, thats fine.

I pushed a wing mirror backwards on a car last night, no damage, it was totally blocking the pavement on a blind bend, just happened to catch it with my hip.


----------



## thegrumpybiker (4 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> we simply kept our eyes peeled (from another car), followed them, got the address and went back and made sure the car didnt go again, it was a shed anyway.
> 
> 
> Dont get mad, get even and sometimes you have to accept you may never get back at them but the time you do, its so satisfying.



The actions of a spiteful, sneaky, underhand devious bastard...


----------



## thegrumpybiker (4 Feb 2010)

...I applaud heartily.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Feb 2010)

Cheers Grumpy, its not something I am proud of though, it just needed to be done, having had my car kicked, me and my cousin, plus the friend that stopped punched, my car booted, a mixture of blood and chips and gravy in my face, the driver of the Mini shoved his food right in my face as we went to go in the chippy, it was hot, then He punched me, didnt see it coming, his mates decided thatwas their cue to have a go as well, without any discussion, We werent too badly hurt, just a bit of bruising, more the shock and humiliation and the dent in the freshly sprayed rear quarter of my car.

Had they just ignored us or, god forbid, passed the time of day, had a chat, asked me about the car they would have met with enthusiasm to have said chat, a mutually enjoyable exchange, as it is, their jealous and violent streaks showed them for the little turdbags they were, my vindictive male pride then kicked in.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> Yes, most of the time thats how I work, however I don't see where mutual respect has been shown here, contempt, cruelty, endangerment, aggression etc but Garilla was not offered a basic level of respect, treated as a play thing by idiots who were hoping to see him injured or at least scared, difficult to respect them, he reacted and then came off worse.
> 
> You get your own back in your own way with your videos and there are many different options to pursue before I get to the stage of damaging something or somebody but when you have taken a battering for no reason other than having a nice car (which also came in for some stick) then you do want to get some revenge, their car was worthless anyway.
> 
> ...




I was just pointing out that doing damage to someone else's property serves absolutely no purpose other than satisfying your own lust for revenge. I'm not having a go personally, but I just can condone that type of retribution. In my opinion (and I have been know to voice it occasionally) by taking revenge you lower yourself to the level of the ned/chav/whatever. You also open yourself up to the risks of getting caught etc.


----------



## Crankarm (4 Feb 2010)

Can every one please read this article as the cyclist knocked off a car door mirror, was chased and then deliberately rammed by the driver. The cyclist died from his injuries.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...maging-wing-mirror-court-told-92746-23432533/

Riding on the roads is not a game or worth getting into a petty squabble over on here. The roads are a dangerous enough place without courting trouble or seeking revenge. Think how many drivers have criminal records for assault/gbh or carry weapons or are high on something. You could bite off a lot more than you anticipate. Think of the distress your family and friends would be caused if you were killed when you could have avoided confrontation?

I am sure garilla regrets doing what he did. As Shaun said let his tale stand as a lesson to all cyclists should the red mist come down. You only need to be stabbed, beaten with base ball bats, shot to more than likely lose your life. Or they could find out where you live and burn your house down .............

As Magnatom says - get a head cam. Records everything and makes you a lot calmer.

Pride before a fall.

Safe riding.


----------



## Crackle (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> I was just pointing out that doing damage to someone else's property serves absolutely no purpose other than satisfying your own lust for revenge. I'm not having a go personally, but I just can condone that type of retribution. In my opinion (and I have been know to voice it occasionally) by taking revenge you lower yourself to the level of the ned/chav/*Scally*/whatever. You also open yourself up to the risks of getting caught etc.



Fixed.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

Crackle said:


> Fixed.


Not scallywag then?


----------



## Crackle (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Not scallywag then?



No! In the same way Ned isn't short for Neddy.


----------



## magnatom (4 Feb 2010)

Ah. I am now an ED and not a NED!


----------



## Crankarm (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ah. I am now an ED and not a NED!



Mag - Aren't you FRSP or BScMed?


----------



## BentMikey (4 Feb 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> Oh well, at least I had the front (as Garilla did) to get physically involved, instead of winding people up through the safety of the internet. Now where's that ignore list?



Careful, you're not that different from Lee. You're both dirty rotten RLJers after all.

...and Lee is a decent chap and a pretty good rider in real life. Perhaps his comments were painfully harsh here, but he does have a fair point.


----------



## Crackle (4 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Careful, you're not that different from Lee. You're both dirty rotten RLJers after all.
> 
> ...and Lee is a decent chap and a pretty good rider in real life. Perhaps his comments were painfully harsh here, *but he does have a fair point*.



Really. Well if he did he hid it well.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Feb 2010)

magnatom said:


> I was just pointing out that doing damage to someone else's property serves absolutely no purpose other than satisfying your own lust for revenge. I'm not having a go personally, but I just can condone that type of retribution. In my opinion (and I have been know to voice it occasionally) by taking revenge you lower yourself to the level of the ned/chav/whatever. You also open yourself up to the risks of getting caught etc.




Correct on all counts, and I intend to never do that again but I can't commit to saying I wont depending on the situation, there are many other paths open that are more effective. I suppose if they dont know why its like rubbing the Dogs nose in it a week later.


----------



## garrilla (5 Feb 2010)

There were many moments during this event where I or the occupants of the car could have made alternative decisions and events could have turned out differently.

Beyond the initial act of dangerous stupidity, the most significant moment, from my perspective, was when I arrived at their car and attempted to engage with them to let them know how stupid their stunt was and how angry this had made me. This was an opportunity for them to apologise for their 'mistake' - to tell me 'they were just having a laugh.' But the didn't they sat nonchalantly laughing from the protection of their car. This rendered me powerless, amplified the anger and I lashed out. My mistake.

I'm in my mid 40s and I've done nothing like this. But its not the first time that a car driver and/or passengers have saw fit to involve themselves, unwarranted, in my cycling journey. Sadly, I don't suppose it will be the last.


----------



## Crankarm (5 Feb 2010)

garrilla said:


> There were many moments during this event where I or the occupants of the car could have made alternative decisions and events could have turned out differently.
> 
> Beyond the initial act of dangerous stupidity, the most significant moment, from my perspective, was when I arrived at their car and attempted to engage with them to let them know how stupid their stunt was and how angry this had made me. This was an opportunity for them to apologise for their 'mistake' - to tell me 'they were just having a laugh.' But the didn't they sat nonchalantly laughing from the protection of their car. This rendered me powerless, amplified the anger and I lashed out. My mistake.
> 
> I'm in my mid 40s and I've done nothing like this. But its not the first time that a car driver and/or passengers have saw fit to involve themselves, unwarranted, in my cycling journey. Sadly, I don't suppose it will be the last.



I suspect many share your indignation and anger at what they did to you and for all the other muppets like them, but at the end of the day you are very vulnerable on a bike. Whilst your retaliatory action was shall we say "mis-judged" what then transpired could have irrepairably altered your life or ended it .


----------



## chap (6 Feb 2010)

Out of choice I prefer to remain ignorant to 'Northen justice', nonetheless I hope you get better soon. 

The fact that they chose to beat you up over a broken wing-mirror speaks volumes though, it's lucky you didn't take the more effective act of vengance and 'key' the vehicle.


----------



## Twenty Inch (6 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Careful, you're not that different from Lee. You're both dirty rotten RLJers after all.



Not any more Mikey



> ...and Lee is a* decent chap* and a pretty good rider in real life.



Which makes his behaviour on these forums all the more unpleasant. If he were as objectionable in real life as he is here, at least he would have some integrity about it, but it seems that face-to-face he is capable of behaving politely, but changes when he can offend people through the anonymity of a forum. Anyway, that's what ignore lists are for.



> Perhaps his comments were painfully harsh here, but he does have a* fair* point.




He has a point, but if you, like him, think that's it's a FAIR point to get a kicking after breaking a mirror, then you've both got some warped sense of moral equivalance. I don't think Garilla should have broken the mirror, (despite having done similar in the past, and I wouldn't do it again). But no-one deserves that sort of treatment.


----------



## Twenty Inch (7 Feb 2010)

OK, truce.

I think we're probably all getting up ourselves and seeing the worst of a forum's two-dimensionality, forgetting that in real life there are many more sides to a person's character, and that we have much more in common with each other, than we sometimes see here. 

Hope to meet you on a ride, Lee. We can RLJ together.

TI


----------



## XmisterIS (7 Feb 2010)

I'm just re-reading this thread and it makes me think, _Other people's behaviour is not my responsibility, but my reaction to their behaviour is my responsibility__._ That's something I try to keep in mind always when I'm on the road! (I am no saint though - occasionally I'll shout, but I never get physical. I shouldn't even shout though ... I'm working on it! ).

Consider the following situation: Car full of chavs deliberately close-passes, shout abuse as they do so. I can't do anything about that.

What I want to do is catch them up, smash the car up and punch the crap out of them if they get out of the car.

What I actually do is mutter "twats!" under my breath and just carry on riding. This isn't because I'm incapable of defending myself; quite the opposite! I just would rather not end up in prison for pummeling someone into a bloody heap. Nor would I like to spend a week layed up on the sofa having been pummelled into a bloody heap!

It's said that where road rage is concerned, the number one golden rule is absolutely do not react, no eye contact, nothing.

I'm thinking about the two possible outcomes.

1) If I react the way I want to; there can't be a good outcome. If they end up beating the crap out of me, then it will take me a while to recover. If I end up beating the crap out of them, then I will spend the next few weeks absolutely terrified of being convicted of GBH, sent to prison, loose my livelyhood, etc ...

2) When I react the way that I actually do (i.e. no reaction, or as little as I can help), then the whole incident is over and done with in a fraction of a second. The thing is, the people who drive like @rseholes round cyclists sometimes *want* a reaction. If you don't give them one, they get bored and leave you alone. Same rule applies when I'm in the car and being aggressively tailgated by someone - I don't react and ... they drop back and stop beeping/flashing/tailgating ... because they get bored because I won't react. It's "playground mentality". Gotta rise above it.

EDIT: I've only ever in my whole life been in one road rage situation where not reacting had no effect and the guy just kept on getting angrier with no provocation whatsoever. I think this guy was probably on drugs/a psychopath - hence totally out of the ordinary.


----------



## al78 (7 Feb 2010)

XmisterIS said:


> 2) When I react the way that I actually do (i.e. no reaction, or as little as I can help), then the whole incident is over and done with in a fraction of a second. The thing is, the people who drive like @rseholes round cyclists sometimes *want* a reaction. If you don't give them one, they get bored and leave you alone. Same rule applies when I'm in the car and being aggressively tailgated by someone - I don't react and ... they drop back and stop beeping/flashing/tailgating ... because they get bored because I won't react. It's "playground mentality". Gotta rise above it.



The annoying thing is though, ignoring them may just give them the idea that they can bully/abuse who the hell they like without consequence. It is this that I think is behind the anger fuelled retaliations.

As the saying goes: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."


----------



## Crankarm (7 Feb 2010)

al78 said:


> The annoying thing is though, ignoring them may just give them the idea that they can bully/abuse who the hell they like without consequence. It is this that I think is behind the anger fuelled retaliations.
> 
> As the saying goes: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."



Actually the quote is,

‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one ...’ 
Edmund Burke, the 18th century British parliamentarian who championed the cause of American independence.


----------



## chap (8 Feb 2010)

Crankarm said:


> Actually the quote is,
> 
> ‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one ...’
> Edmund Burke, the 18th century British parliamentarian who championed the cause of American independence.




I've heard both, therefore they most likely exist independently. Nobody is in the wrong here


----------



## Crankarm (8 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> I've heard both, therefore they most likely exist independently. Nobody is in the wrong here



Jimmy Cagney has been credited with saying "You dirty rat ......"
In fact he never said this in any of his films. 



Marie Antionette "Let them eat cake".

In fact, she actually said "Let them eat bread". 



"Play it again, Sam" - Julius J. Epstein, Casablanca 

Probably the most famous mis-quote from a film, this statement is never actually made in the film. The closest is Bogart saying "If she can stand it, I can. Play it!", and Bergman saying "Play it, Sam. Play As Time Goes By".

So back to the Edmund Burke quote above he likely never said the words as posted by al78.


----------



## slowmotion (8 Feb 2010)

XmisterIS said:


> I'm thinking about the two possible outcomes.
> 
> 1) If I react the way I want to; there can't be a good outcome. If they end up beating the crap out of me, then it will take me a while to recover. If I end up beating the crap out of them, then I will spend the next few weeks absolutely terrified of being convicted of GBH, sent to prison, loose my livelyhood, etc ...
> 
> ...



A brilliant post. Thank-you.


----------



## Sheffield_Tiger (8 Feb 2010)

Crankarm said:


> So back to the Edmund Burke quote above he likely never said the words as posted by al78.



Ah, but that wasn't attributed to Burke here, simply "as the saying goes..". It's an oft repeated phrase, so it qualifies as a saying in its own right. Regardless of who said it first or if it was originally a misquote.


----------



## MacB (8 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Ah, but that wasn't attributed to Burke here, simply "as the saying goes..". It's an oft repeated phrase, so it qualifies as a saying in its own right. Regardless of who said it first or if it was originally a misquote.



Is correct, I think Cranky, is his indecent haste to be a smartass, got a bit carried away


----------



## Crankarm (8 Feb 2010)

MacB said:


> Is correct, I think Cranky, is his indecent haste to be a smartass, got a bit carried away




Nothing indecent about my haste it was IIRC wholly decent .


----------



## garrilla (8 Feb 2010)

My vision really degraded on Friday so I went for a checkup. A long wait later and I found out that my retina had detached and it required an emergency operation which happened am hour later.

I'm now convelescing at home with a two week lay off lying on my side while a gas bubble keeps the retina in place. it will be a couple of months before I can go back to work and before I know how much of my sight I will lose. 

Having had a few more days to think about it and talk it through with people I still think I would have chased them down for a chance to admonish the innocents. Would I still have smashed the wing mirror? Who knows as I wasn't properly in control of my senses at the time.


----------



## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

Oh noes garilla!!! I'm really sorry to hear that. What a bunch of dirty rotten scum.


----------



## Browser (8 Feb 2010)

Sorry to hear that garilla


----------



## Twenty Inch (8 Feb 2010)

Really sorry to hear that Garilla.


----------



## magnatom (8 Feb 2010)

Ah cr@p. Fingers crossed the op does the trick and your left with the minimal damage.


----------



## snakehips (8 Feb 2010)

Jeez , just caught up with this thread.
Hope you make a full recovery.
It could happen to any of us.

Snake

 My Library


----------



## Crackle (8 Feb 2010)

That's bad news, hope it mends well.


----------



## swee'pea99 (8 Feb 2010)

God damn. Get well soon.


----------



## Origamist (8 Feb 2010)

Sorry to hear about the retina, garilla - here's hoping you make you make a full recovery.


----------



## Bollo (8 Feb 2010)

That's a bugger, garilla. GWS


----------



## Crankarm (8 Feb 2010)

Jees bad luck G. Hope you heal quickly and without any residual probs.


----------



## garrilla (9 Feb 2010)

Thanks for all your concerns and kind words.


----------



## eldudino (9 Feb 2010)

Hope the eye heals soon.


----------



## J4CKO (9 Feb 2010)

GOd, that sounds serious, hope all heals quickly.

Do you remember much about the car or its occupants, do you have anything you can take to the Police, that is pretty serious stuff, two months off work.

I know you went after them and damaged the car but if they had not provoked you they wouldnt have lost the mirror and wouldnt have had to get out and dispense their "justice".

I would, make it my business to get them back one way or another if there was the slightest chance of locating them.


----------

