# Employers & Mental Health



## 531c (20 Dec 2011)

Don't post much, but I do read the boards frequently and the advice offered always seems pretty good, so....

I'm struggling a bit (a lot...) at the moment with what seems to be some depression/anxiety disorder (seeing my GP tomorrow). Amongst other things this is really affecting my ability to do my job. I'm constantly on edge, can't think straight or concentrate for more than a few minutes at a time. Even the simplest tasks seem to take far longer than they should, and that makes me even more stressed and panicked - a vicious circle.

I really think I need to take some time off work to sort myself out, but I'm wary of raising any kind of mental health issues with my employer lest I get (wrongly) labelled as being weak in some way. I'm worried that if there is any kind of downsizing or redundancies in the future raising this now will count against me.

I'm in my 30s but I've only visited GP twice in my adult life, and I'm pretty ignorant about the mechanisms for being signed off work. Does the doctor have to provide a note with a detailed description of the problem which I then give to my employer?


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## Arsen Gere (20 Dec 2011)

I think it would not do any harm to talk to you GP regardless of how often you have been in the past. He may seem like a stranger to you but he will have seen a lot of people go through difficult times and may be able to offer advice or refer you for councelling.
I think it would be unlikely to get a diagnosis straight away and he will probably want some kind of assessment, like filling in a form about how you feel about stuff so he can rate you and refer you to someone more specialised.
I've known people go through some really low spots in life but find some improvement by exercising in any form. Hence the recommendation for a daily walk to get people moving out of depression. Maybe the bike will help too if that is your sport. Some people are uplifted by listening to music too.
If you feel stronger physically you can bite the balls off a bear at work. So if you have a slow day, you have the strength to improve and the confidence to know you can take it in your stride.

Being off work is your short term answer and it may be the right one. But by discussing this with someone who has seen a lot of people in your position would help make the RIGHT decision, for you. If that involves being off work then the assessment would provide the correct wording but being around work colleagues may be better for you. These kind of problems are very very common and rarely discussed.

HTH


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## lukesdad (20 Dec 2011)

Talking about it can only help I suppose, a problem shared and all that, not that I know a lot about the subject. Taking some time to clear the mind is always good, whether it be an hours walk or a complete break.


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## Hacienda71 (20 Dec 2011)

You would be suprised how many people have gone through a similar thing to you. It is easy to think you are alone in this but people can be unbderstanding and as many of us have been through issues they can relate to the feeling of isolation. See your GP. If work is the cause there may and I stress may be a H&S issue. Also there is a really good thread on here, "ping fellow deppresives" iirc which may give you an insight in some ways to help with your predicament. Best of Luck


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## coffeejo (20 Dec 2011)

I echo the comments about seeing your GP. Ring up first thing tomorrow and make that appointment. I ended up leaving my last job when I started hiding under the table so I wouldn't have to deal with customers. Trust me, you're really not alone in this. Once you've seen your GP, consider talking to someone in your workplace, just let them know what's going on. It helps if you can be clinical about things: would you talk to them if it was a serious physical condition? Try and be pragmatic and remember that the steps and support structures you put in place NOW will help you out in the future. Good luck. 

EDIT: just re-read your post and d'oh, you're seeing your GP tomorrow. Um, well, yes. Ignore me. I'm a bit bats today!


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## MattHB (20 Dec 2011)

I ended signed off for 3 years following a breakdown because I refused to accept that I had a problem and get some proper help. So I'd fully agree with the above. Unfortunately not all GPs are the same. Generally one of the docs in a practice will be the mental health specialist and you're quite within your rights to ask the receptionists for a list of all doctors training and experience before deciding who you will see.

Take some time out, it's only a sickness like any physical one. Many people (including me to start with) refused to believe it. 

Good luck with it  taking time out changed my life. I went back to college at 33 as part of my rehabilitation to retrain. I never left and now 4 years later I'm a senior lecturer, team leader and about to take a management role next year at the same college! It just shows you that if you give yourself time to recover when you need it you can do ABSOLUTELY anything . I've never been happier, or fitter than I am now 

All the best with it


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## 531c (20 Dec 2011)

Thanks everyone for your wise words, it's much appreciated.

I think I've accepted in my own mind that I have a problem, and that's the first step.

It's quite frightening actually, I know my job inside out, but my productivity at the moment is pitiful and people are starting to notice.

Isolation might be part of the problem, I live on my own and tend to work from home a lot and I don't think that's doing me any good at all. I can go for days without actually speaking to anyone except the usual pleasantries in shops. Everthing gets internalised and it isn't healthy.

I've got a few days off now, so time to take a breather and work out what to do next...


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## MattHB (20 Dec 2011)

Take it easy  try not to worry. If the weathers nice get out on the bike, it'll help lift you massively.

Have you thought about joining a light hearted cycling club? The social side might be useful? One of my biggest problems was my hermit nature.


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## 531c (20 Dec 2011)

Yes, I'll try and get out on the bike tomorrow. It's always been my default way of regaining some persepective when things aren't going well, but it hasn't worked so well recently.

My ineffectiveness at work means I feel guilty about any time spent away from my PC, even though I'm totally unproductive when I'm sat at my computer. I feel I should be trying to catch up with work all the time and not gallavanting around on the bike.


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## MattHB (20 Dec 2011)

Quality time for yourself will help you be more productive when you do work  so you could argue that any time on the bike that focuses your mind and allows you to work better is a necessary part of your job


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## Andrew_P (21 Dec 2011)

You seem to have quite a mixture, but the main problem looks like the anxiety/panic at work and this is causing the depression? There are legal obligations which employers will have to offer, but as you say there is not much that can be done about the labeling. 

I was quite lucky in that the owner of the company had a son with similar problems. My best bit of advice is that removing yourself from the job may not be the best move for you, it may make you worse. Of course there is not info in your posts for this to be good advice but if you are suffering from anxiety/panic caused by work then removing yourself may make it very difficult to go back and when you do if the panic returns then you have created a cycle.

One of the best remidies might CBT (best to google it) combined with some medication from your GP. Anxiety and panic normally are "cured" by exposure to the cause of the anxiety and learning how not to react.

If the depression is causing the anxiety then meds should help, I do not have much person knowledge of depression led anxiety so cannot offer much advice on this.

The other thing to do with work that may help would be to write down a list of things you want to get done tomorrow, and tick them off as you do them, and then reward yourself with time away from the PC.

It seem that a lot of mental health issues respond well to excercise so do not give up on cycling!


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## yello (21 Dec 2011)

I've not read the comments of others, so my apologies if I repeat something.

By chance, I was listening to Radio 4 this afternoon and the subject of mental health and employers was discussed (on 'You and Yours' I think). It was in relation to applying for a job but what I'll say here still applies.

To my surprise, you are under no obligation to tell your employer about mental health issues. My own feeling is that is better that you do but it is absolutely your call. IF you do, your employer should support you ('should' being the operative word). More importantly, they cannot dismiss you. In fact, it is effectively classed as discrimination if they do so and you can take it to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.That also surprised me.

That all said, the MOST import thing (imo) is your own health. If you feel you need time off then take time off - with or without your employers consent. Of course, see your GP first. I have no idea if they have to detail a reason for a 'sick note' but I suspect not. Patient confidentiality and all.

Don't be afraid to see your GP either. I know it's daunting (and you may even come away wondering why you did) but it is an important first step... if only to cover your arse. It's more likely that you'll have a sympathetic ear (as much as the GP's time constraints will allow).

You don't mention if you have anyone to talk to. Just talking is a huge help. It's not something that'll necessarily 'cure' you be it does take some of the weight off your shoulders.


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## fossyant (21 Dec 2011)

Depending upon your employer, see the Occupational Health. I went to see them after my shoulder operation didn't cure my nerve/arm pain - I let them know my problems - lack of sleep etc and made sure it was all logged. Had an independent assessment and report and also met HR and line manager to discuss, and I also mentioned the medication I was being put on - it did make me unwell, and I was struggling through a very busy period at work - the effects of the drugs, and on my performance, made me stop taking them. My employer is aware there may be times when I've not slept due to pain, and I might not perform well (I've had a couple of days off this year post operation as I hadn't slept all night - I just explain it when I report in).

At least if you let Occ Health know, this will take a load off your mind - they will also be in deep sh1t if they suddenly spring a non-performance warning on you out of the blue - as you've told them. Good employers will see what they can do to help.

It's a vicious circle - certainly speed to GP and Occ Health. Worrying about it will make it worse !

I've booked on some CBT training in the new year at my local Health Centre - it's free and is 2 hours a week for 6 weeks. Work is OK with me attending in office hours.


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## sheddy (21 Dec 2011)

Never tried these but off the shelf medication is available - http://www.kalmsstress.com/kalms-tablets.html


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## 531c (21 Dec 2011)

yello said:


> By chance, I was listening to Radio 4 this afternoon and the subject of mental health and employers was discussed (on 'You and Yours' I think). It was in relation to applying for a job but what I'll say here still applies.


 
This sounds interesting, I'll see if it's on the iPlayer - thanks.

I visited the GP today and described the issues I've been having. She said it sounded like I was suffering from depression and was willing to write a note to get me signed off work. I've decided to delay making any decision on that until after Christmas - I'm just very wary of telling my employer, once I take that step there's no going back.

The GP suggested that a combination of anti-depressants and CBT therapy is the way forward, and I'll see her again after Christmas to talk more about that. Until then I've been prescribed beta-blockers for the anxiety issues, I seem much calmer since taking them, but that could just be due to the fact I've shared the problem with someone.

She also made the point which others have made on this thread - exercise is likely to have a beneficial affect. So on with the thermals and out on the bike tomorrow hopefully.


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## Night Train (22 Dec 2011)

It is good that you have seen your GP and you are taking her advice. Independent advice is also good and your GP can help you access the therapies and organisations that can help. 

I'm not good at direct advice and supportive posts so I will just give you my story.



I had been poorly, for a number of reasons, over the last year of work. After taking odd days off here and there my employer sent me to an OH consultant who gave me a crappy questionaire to answer. From that she determined I wasn't depressed nor anxious so CBT wouldn't help. However at the end of the session she put me forward for a series of CBT sessions at my employer's expense. I couldn't work out why except to waste my employer's money.
My employer's HR dept seemed more concerned that I should keep telling them that it wasn't their fault whenever I was asked. No one wanted to know that they were the root cause of my illnesses. This persisted until my contract ended in May and then no one there seemed to want to know if I was ok anymore.

Last Easter my GP did finally made me take proper time off work by signing me off sick and telling me it was illegal for me to continue working. Whether or not is is I don't know but it got me to stop work. I am still signed off sick and may be for a while longer yet. What I hadn't realised then was that I wasn't coping with the rediculus demands from work and the extra work load I was picking up all the time as my manager's left, one after another over the preceeding years. I was doing 40 hours a week for my contracted 12 paid hours which caused my own cabinet making business to fold last year. My GP caught it a little too late but better late then never.
In not acting on the pressures, and continuing to work despite my GP advising me to stop and take a break and rest, and work not supporting me and also piling on the pressure 'to see if I would go the extra mile', I now find myself far more ill then I have ever been.
I have lost a significant amount of memory specifically relating to my cabinet making knowledge and my teaching experience gained over the last ten years, I have reduced short term memory, I am unable to walk far (was less then 50yds before I fell over but now nearly a half a mile before I have to stop), I have lost the ability to balance due to my brain not knowing where my hands and feet are, almost no ability to sleep and very draining dreams when I do.
I have given up on my MSc course and graduated with only a diploma, for a while I couldn't type easily and wasn't hand writing at all. I have lost commissions for furniture work because I can't emember how to make the furniture.
Looking back, a lot of the initial time off work was down to some of my physical symptoms but also I now realise that I had 'lost it' and was talking gibberish about my subject. At the time I hadn't realised I had lost memory and my mind had started making up stuff to fill in the blanks. It still does but I am more aware that it is doing so.

All the specialist I have spoken to have seperately advised me to get as far away from my previous employer as possible and to never return.
I am taking their advise and concentrating on gradually improving. I am ignoring the advice on constructive dimissal and employment tribunals as that would send me over the edge.

I have been refered to a psychotherapist to work on the memory loss, I am instructed to cycle and walk more to help my brain relearn how to control my limbs and the benefits agency are helping me return to work without pressure. They are offering to help me with support work and or grants for equipment, etc. depending on what I will need at the time and I have an interview to join an Arts on Prescription course designed to help people who have been under severe work stress redevelop their social contacts and creativity throughs arts to help bring them back into a working environment wthout the pressures of work.

Hopefully all this will help me get my memory and hand skills back, if not completely then at least to a point where I can redirect what I have into something I can work with.

I will be going self employed from here onwards as my previous employer is unlikely to give me an acceptable reference as they are already making me a scapegoat for their failings.


Being depressed or anxious is nothing to be ashamed about. It is a human thing, though even machines wear out if they are over worked and not looked after. It is very similar but in a mental rather then physical way.

Make sure that when you are supposed to rest, don't do as I did and figure on using that time to catch up with work when no one is looking. That will only make it worse.
I took to my bike and went on weekend rides, holidays, camping trips and just idle time. But I needed forcing to do that and for that I am eternally grateful to the likes of Arch, bikepete, Gromet, Spandex, etc. as well as other non forum friends.

I hope this helps. I am on the mend, gradually, so it does get better.


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## ColinJ (22 Dec 2011)

I got so severely stressed and depressed by work that I effectively ended my career at the age of 47 and have been living in debt and near poverty ever since. I keep trying to think of ways to earn a modest living (even £1k/month would do!) but my mind is often a mush and I find it hard to concentrate. (You may well have noticed how often I go off-topic in great depth in someone else's thread!)

I rant from time to time on my forum rides. I'm sure that CycleChatters riding along with me wonder why I'm still complaining about things that happened at work over 20 years ago, but they did a lot of damage. It is hard to invest so much of yourself in something and then have it turn to crap and almost kill you ...

Anyway - good luck 531c and Night Train, and anybody else having problems. It doesn't have to be like this. Things can get better.


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## BigTam (22 Dec 2011)

If your GP diagnoses you as having depression, then you will most likely be covered under the Disability Discimination Act 1995, your employer is therefore duty bound to make "reasonable adjustments" to help you, this can include altering your hours of attendance, taking away some of your responsibilities on a temporary basis and other measures that will aleviate the stress that you are obviously under, dicuss this with your employer and just clarify what they believe they are obliged to do to aid your recovery.


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## MissTillyFlop (22 Dec 2011)

I have been off work a lot with mental health problems and have had varying responses with various employers. (My current boss is amazing!)

Go to the GP, but also try contacting Mind - they have great advice on how to deal with the whole work issue.
Hope you get the help you need (make sure they don't just go "yes yes" and give you anti-depressents - they'll do nothing for the anxiety - ) and that you see an occupational therapist


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## ttcycle (22 Dec 2011)

Another hand up for having dealt with this issue.

You're not alone in this and it's good that you've started the process off by going to your GP.

To qualify for your depression to be considered as a disability and to fall under legislation- it has to be an enduring condition that has been present for 3 months or more...you'll need medical certificates or at least of record of this ie going to your GP.

If you do take any time off- make sure you have a sick note; without out one it can cause issues...and having one helps with statutory sick pay- in fact I think you need one for SSP. If you need any adjustments made at work to change your health (and it seems that there are some factors at work affecting your mental health) then you'll need medical back up evidence so keep that in mind - your GP will be the first port of call for this but save any letters etc if you get referred to specialists.

My personal experience is that I've had mixed results from employers when I've declared depression and anxiety as long term conditions. I would never go to Mind, they used to be my employers and screwed me over on mental heath issues but I also recognise that they can have some useful advice. I think once you start to look at the patterns and the type of work that you do etc you''ll get better at realising what those triggers are that get you a bit squiffy.

I found for me CBT never really helped

For me, I feel passionate about my work and give a lot of time and energy to it - I work in bursts and often wear myself out and I need to be very productive all the time. If you read the ping fellow depressives post- I went through a really hard patch and it went on and on and on for ages and it's only really cleared right now after being out the country for 6 weeks.

Firstly, I must say - do not feel ashamed about mental health - I know it's complex- some on here will tell you conversations I've had with them where I cannot stand the fact that I've cancelled a ride with them, ducked out of something or just cannot do something or be my usual high output, high achieving self when I feel badly depressed. My memory gets like a sponge, my concentration dries up, have trouble finishing sentences and simple daily tasks, I get all teary, emotional and find it hard to cope with the smallest things and at the worst have felt darkly suicidal and not been able to leave the bed for weeks. There's no magic formula - we're all different as people but for me, talking to professionals- loved ones, friends on here, and in the real world and just actually learning to give myself a break and ultimately pulling myself away from my usual life and having time and space to breathe, think and live have really helped. I've got nothing to feel bad about with mental health be open about it, if someone gives you a hard time or judges you- then it's their issue and not yours.
I accept sometimes it may return but I can and do deal with it, I'm learning to look after myself and not drive myself too hard. The figuring out side may take a few years but it's good to have insight and 'know myself'.

Good luck with getting back on track and feel free to post up here - knowing you're not alone and trying to dig out of that isolation is a good start.


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## ColinJ (22 Dec 2011)

ttcycle said:


> I would never go to Mind, they used to be my employers and screwed me over on mental heath issues ...


Flipping heck - _that's not on!  _


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## ttcycle (22 Dec 2011)

Live and learn.That's all I'll say on the matter.


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## coffeejo (22 Dec 2011)

A friend of mine with bi-polar had similar issues with Mind as an employee, but my local Mind were fantastic and incredibly helpful, supportive and effective when I had to go to my last of ESA interviews.


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## MissTillyFlop (22 Dec 2011)

ttcycle said:


> Live and learn.That's all I'll say on the matter.


 Could you inbox me, possibly. I am a fundraiser for them, but don't want to bother if they don't practice what they preach.


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## ColinJ (22 Dec 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Could you inbox me, possibly. I am a fundraiser for them, but don't want to bother if they don't practice what they preach.


They still do a lot of good work, even if they got it wrong as an employer in ttc's case. A friend of mine has put in over 100 hours as a volunteer for _Mind_ and was very warmly thanked recently by a man who'd spent an hour talking to her about his problems.


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## ttcycle (22 Dec 2011)

They work on a federal system- each Mind is run seperately.

Staff there do a stellar job for people who use their services - a lot of committed people and I wouldn't take away from that so it really depends on the local Mind- they're all different.

Anyway, totally off topic!


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## Andrew_P (22 Dec 2011)

As an aside a found hypnothearpy/meditation really good for the anxiety/stress.

I know exactly how you feel about employers and the reality is that the employment law has to be followed but it cannot change perception. Although as you can see from replies here you are not alone, and it is likely your management may well have had a problem or know someone who has.

Working from home is not what it is cracked up to be, no clear lines set out


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## ijm770 (22 Dec 2011)

My first post here, but have had some similar sounding issues as you 531c, so thought I may add my thoughts..

First of all well done for going to see you doctor, I found it very hard at first, helps if you get one you can talk to and a sympathetic ear.

I have been off work a couple of times this year with depression and anxiety, currently been off nearly 6 months, I'm due to go back next month .

My doc prescribed meds for both depression and anxiety, former has taken quite a while to kick in, the beta blockers worked pretty quickly and were a real benefit.

Workwise you'll need as other posters have said a sick line for anything over 5 days, your doc will evaluate you and see how long he/she reckons you need to be signed off work for. The sick line will include what you are being signed off work with, the doctor will probably ask what you feel should be put on it.

Occupational Health at your work may get in contact with you if you have been off work for a certain amount of time ( in my case it was after when I'd been off for about a month ) and arrange a meeting. They should be independent of work and you will probably be seen by another doctor, they will chat to you and then pass on their recommendations to your work. This may be that you need further time off to rest or for your medication and/or CBT to have an effect. They may chat to you about returning to work on a phased return; working reduced hours, half days say over a period of time or on lighter duties perhaps. They are basically on your side, trying to help you as best possible in order for you to get back to work.

Sometimes it is good to take a break, in my case it has helped, unfortunately I havent been able to get out on the bike much because of a back injury, I feel cycling would definately have helped in my recovery. But its better now and hopefully I'll be out soon.

There are also a few websites out there that can help, Im not sure if I can mention them in this post?

Good luck, all the best.


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## ttcycle (22 Dec 2011)

Yep feel free to link to them - CC doesn't allow self promotional advertising but links that might help a forummer are fine - the site rules are at the bottom of the page on the right hand side if you want to have a quick glance.

Welcome to CC btw!


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## trio25 (28 Dec 2011)

Well Done for going to see your GP, it is an important and hopefully useful step.

I had over a year off work with Depression and originally the Dr wrote something else on the sick notes, debility I think as that can cover anything. The hope was a couple of weeks and I could go back to work although it never happened that way.

My life is very different now I work a lot less hours in a job that is a lot less demanding but that I enjoy and I commute to work by bike which probably makes the biggest difference.

Hope you have managed to find some time for yourself over Christmas.


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## col (28 Dec 2011)

If you can get active, even a brisk walk can help. But being inactive, which is sometimes a by product of this tends to make things worse in my experience. Good luck, Im sure you will feel better soon. try and stay positive, and if you feel really low Im sure there are plenty here you can pm for a private chat, or even a virtual ear.


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## MissTillyFlop (28 Dec 2011)

Ask if there is any CBT available in your area. I found it helpful with recognising the onset of something and identifying triggers too. (Christmas being one of the biggest triggers for my mania, for example).


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## trio25 (28 Dec 2011)

Yes I meant to say exercise is great, not always easy though. I was lucky and my other half dragged me out, I had leaving the house issues so it was often very late. Cycling also made me talk to 'real' people.

CBT should be avalible, I didn't find it that useful but it is probably worth trying.


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## col (28 Dec 2011)

trio25 said:


> Yes I meant to say exercise is great, not always easy though. I was lucky and my other half dragged me out, I had leaving the house issues so it was often very late. Cycling also made me talk to 'real' people.
> 
> CBT should be avalible, I didn't find it that useful but it is probably worth trying.


Now leaving the house was a main problem I had for a long time, even going to a neighbours house was impossible.


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## coffeejo (28 Dec 2011)

I had that too. Still do, at times. Doesn't even have to be *my* house. A friend had to give me a lift home on Christmas Day instead of me cycling as I had a mental blank and couldn't picture the route home. The more I tried to figure it out, the more of a state I got in. 

I had limited success with CBT. It was invaluable with some very specific issues, but hasn't helped with more general stuff. I think it very much depends on the type of person you are and what you're going through.


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## chillyuk (29 Dec 2011)

Most of the problems I have had over the years haven't been with employers, but with colleagues. It only took a sensationalist headline about a schizophrenic going on the rampage and killing or injuring people and colleagues would avoid me like the plague until the next seven day wonder came along. It is quite lonely at work when no-one speaks to you, or sits with you in the canteen. It is a pity that they don't understand that isolating one simply reinforces any paranoia being experienced.


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## Andrew_P (30 Dec 2011)

So 531, how did Christmas go? Beta blocker still helping? Do you have a follow up with GP?


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## Lisa21 (5 Jan 2012)

Sometimes its the employers that pose the problem, but in an entirely different way. I am NOT making light of anything on this thread, god knows iv had my own battles, (especially recently, as some people on here are aware), but to say something from another perspective, my boss is a bi-polar alchoholic. They wont take any medication as it affects their ability to drink, so sometimes work life can be pretty fraught.I am fully aware that my boss is ill, but there have been many times iv been very close to walking out as a result of their often nasty(and at times dangerous)behaviour as i do not get paid enough to take all the carp I get given and quite frankly im not trained to handle mentally-ill people. This comes across as a little harsh but it gets pretty serious there at times and can be tough to cope with, especially through the periods when I am battling with demons of my own.


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## loops (6 Jan 2012)

Hey 531a!
Just noticed this thread, hope you have survived christmas and new year. I am a user of mental health services and have had mental health problems for 25 years now! I am also a senior mental health nurse and specialist practitioner, please see your GP...you don't have to agree to anything. Depression is an illness and can be treated, eventually it self heals as do many of the illnesses we receive treatment for, as with migranes, flu, infections etc., we seek medical advice, take medication, ask for help from professionals, friends, family and strangers. Depression is no different, there are many different medications and interventions that may help you. Those which may be useful to you will depend on your individual needs, to get the help you need to do this you must talk to someone.
For certain - things will get better, your life will be better, you will feel positive and happy again.
I hope you post again soon.
PM me anytime.


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## The Jogger (7 Jan 2012)

BigTam said:


> If your GP diagnoses you as having depression, then you will most likely be covered under the Disability Discimination Act 1995, your employer is therefore duty bound to make "reasonable adjustments" to help you, this can include altering your hours of attendance, taking away some of your responsibilities on a temporary basis and other measures that will aleviate the stress that you are obviously under, dicuss this with your employer and just clarify what they believe they are obliged to do to aid your recovery.


I believe it's no longer the DDA but comes under the equality act.


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## loops (7 Jan 2012)

Depression can fall under DDA but it depends on several factors, this is only truly decided if it ever goes to a work tribunal. Drs can be creative about the sick certificate, but it is better for the employer to know as it is expected that any employer makes reasonable adjustments for any illness, certainly in terms of the reason you are off sick this will make no difference, unfortunately so much depends on your employers personal attitude and outlook. There are however many routes you can take if you feel discriminated against, I have done this myself though obviously its very stressful. Hopefully your boss will be ok, though may not be too sure how to react her/himself!


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Jan 2012)

loops said:


> Hey 531a!
> Just noticed this thread, hope you have survived christmas and new year. I am a user of mental health services and have had mental health problems for 25 years now! I am also a senior mental health nurse and specialist practitioner, please see your GP...you don't have to agree to anything. Depression is an illness and can be treated, eventually it self heals as do many of the illnesses we receive treatment for, as with migranes, flu, infections etc., we seek medical advice, take medication, ask for help from professionals, friends, family and strangers. Depression is no different, there are many different medications and interventions that may help you. Those which may be useful to you will depend on your individual needs, to get the help you need to do this you must talk to someone.
> For certain - things will get better, your life will be better, you will feel positive and happy again.
> I hope you post again soon.
> PM me anytime.


Any chance you can sneak usout some lithium? my doctor won't give it me because of my age....


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## brockers (7 Jan 2012)

Similarly some Buproprion. My doctor won't give it to me because I don't smoke....


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## loops (7 Jan 2012)

brockers said:


> Similarly some Buproprion. My doctor won't give it to me because I don't smoke....


 
I took Buproprion to give up smoking and became severely depressed within 2 weeks...have you tried all other options?


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## loops (7 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Any chance you can sneak usout some lithium? my doctor won't give it me because of my age....


 
....best avoided there are other less risky options


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Jan 2012)

loops said:


> ....best avoided there are other less risky options



Anything's better than qeutiapine (including being repeatedly hit round the head with a log)


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## ttcycle (7 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Anything's better than qeutiapine (including being repeatedly hit round the head with a log)


Oh yuck...lithium is not nice though and as 'you're of child bearing age' very few doctors will give it to you as it affects your ability to have children-my old housemate had similar issues.


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## loops (7 Jan 2012)

lithium is not better than quetiapine its a terrible drug....now being hit round the head with a log..that's just silly


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## Milo (7 Jan 2012)

Not to mention it can make you fat IIRC


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Jan 2012)

loops said:


> lithium is not better than quetiapine its a terrible drug....now being hit round the head with a log..that's just silly


Quertiapine made me a big fatty and I was chain eating/drinking/spending/shagging worse than I was when unmedicated. I also felt stoned all the time and spoke like I'd had a stroke and I was sleeping for 18 hours a day.

It did stop the paranoia, but that's it.

Also stopped me from
Being able to write.


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## Milo (7 Jan 2012)

Wopping dose of acid then simples. No offense intended.


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## yoyo (7 Jan 2012)

531c,

I hope you are getting the help that you need and that you are on the road to recovery.

I have had a mixed experience with employers and mental health. I was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety caused by workplace bullying that went unaddressed for five years. Initially my employer was most unhelpful and supported the bullies. Thankfully, I had some very supportive colleagues who helped me through. My GP signed me off work and work sent me to a clinical psychologist for therapy to protect themselves. This backfired on them when she wrote them a report telling them that I being subjected to unmitigated bullying that they were not addressing. Now they are handling me with kid gloves but I am still deeply traumatised to such an extent that I am starting trauma therapy on the NHS. As time has gone on, I have realised that exercise - cycling etc - and making the effort to do things I enjoy helps the depression, although it is certainly easier said than done. People say 'You will get better' but it is a slow process and requires patience.

Yoyo


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## lukesdad (7 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Quertiapine made me a big fatty and I was chain eating/drinking/spending/shagging worse than I was when unmedicated. I also felt stoned all the time and spoke like I'd had a stroke and I was sleeping for 18 hours a day.
> It did stop the paranoia, but that's it.
> 
> Also stopped me from
> Being able to write.


so whats changed ?


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## Fletch456 (8 Jan 2012)

Havent read all the posts above but hope the visit to the GP was successful and you were well received. I've seen GPs a few times regarding similar symptoms and now have a fantastic doctor but have talked to others in the past who werent as receptive and useful to me at all.

One or two people have mentioned drugs above and what is or isn't good. I think whatever works for you is good cos what suits one doesn't suit another. As you may know by now you need to be patient as they can take weeks to fully kick in and it could be that over time you find you have to try one or two others before one really is for you.

With regards to employers I can highly recommend investigating the law and what is required by an employer for yourself. In my experience it's been surprising how many don't know the law on a number of matters (in at least one case I left with money in my pocket as a result though it's not always a result you want).

I can recommend the MIND website and after spending a stint in hospital courtesy of BUPA (not NHS so I wasn't as serious as that and thankful that I wasn't too) I had a load of therapy and can recommend CBT. For that I can recommend Mind Over Mood: Change How You Feel By Changing the Way You Think by Christine A Padesky and Dennis Greenberger - I think it's one of the standard texts that therapists use for it and is fairly simply written but when you're suffering concentration isn't good.

Two more books I highly recommend are:
Depressive illness-curse of the strong by Tim Cantopher - he is a shrink who works at one of The Priory hospitals (it's a chain which the name doesn't imply) and it's really well written; covers a wide range of topics very well including the various drugs available and a chapter for friends and family who can often find it hard to understand

The Depression Cure: The Six-Step Programme to Beat Depression Without Drugs by Dr Steve Ilardi. Published in 2010 I like this book for a. aiming to help you beat depression without drugs b. being about 6 simple things to do and being the length of a novel yet none of it is waffle and all backed up by good evidence.

If money is an issue or you're not sure any of these are for you try your library; I was impressed mine had the last of these just a couple of months after it came out.

Finally: take small steps, take it easy on yourself, exercise (whether it is walking for 20 mins or cycling for 5 hours), be wary of over doing it and getting low as a result so be cautious and stop short that way is safer and leads to faster recovery, eat 3 good meals a day - get food you like whatever it is so long as it fills you and preferably is healthy, be sociable - even a regular small amount - do not be a recluse, get an SAD light (I did this winter for the first time and it definitely helps).

I meant to write something short and sweet, listing the books only; anyway if you just do a thing or two from the above there will likely be a difference. Hope it helps some.


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## MissTillyFlop (8 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> so whats changed ?



Ooh, get her! ;-p


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## Garz (8 Jan 2012)

You can write?


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## MissTillyFlop (8 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> You can write?



Grffjbbggbffjj T66))7??,xcvgh


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## lukesdad (8 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Ooh, get her! ;-p


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## BigTam (9 Jan 2012)

The Jogger said:


> I believe it's no longer the DDA but comes under the equality act.


 
It maybe is covered under the equality act, but is is definately covered under the DDA, dealing with a similar case at work.


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## BigonaBianchi (9 Jan 2012)

FWIW my opinion is BEWARE THE MED PUSHING GP. In my experience they dish out ssri meds way to easily without any real advice to the patiant. Some of them are bloody horrible and take a LONG time to come off of. The worst in my experience is CITALOPRAM which seems to still be the drug of choice for GP's who should know better. Also beware of DIAZIPAN, this is NOT GOOD to withdraw from either. Trust me.

There are situation that call for serious medical intervention. I do not know your situation fully. I am simply saying that there are better alternatives to medication for mild depression and axiety.

Actually in my experience Citalopram only ever increased depression and axiety doing th eexact opposite it was supposed to do.

The cure for anxiety is to have no fear of ANYTHING...pills only ever mask the problems temporarilly, the real answers are within each of us.


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## MissTillyFlop (9 Jan 2012)

BigonaBianchi said:


> FWIW my opinion is BEWARE THE MED PUSHING GP. In my experience they dish out ssri meds way to easily without any real advice to the patiant. Some of them are bloody horrible and take a LONG time to come off of. The worst in my experience is CITALOPRAM which seems to still be the drug of choice for GP's who should know better. Also beware of DIAZIPAN, this is NOT GOOD to withdraw from either. Trust me.
> 
> There are situation that call for serious medical intervention. I do not know your situation fully. I am simply saying that there are better alternatives to medication for mild depression and axiety.
> 
> ...


 

That's why I like my GP - he just said "I can't prescribe you these sorts of things - I qualified in general health, not psychiatry" and referred me to see a psychiatrist. He kinda rocks, does my doctor!


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## coffeejo (9 Jan 2012)

BigonaBianchi said:


> FWIW my opinion is BEWARE THE MED PUSHING GP. In my experience they dish out ssri meds way to easily without any real advice to the patiant. Some of them are bloody horrible and take a LONG time to come off of. The worst in my experience is CITALOPRAM which seems to still be the drug of choice for GP's who should know better. Also beware of DIAZIPAN, this is NOT GOOD to withdraw from either. Trust me.
> 
> There are situation that call for serious medical intervention. I do not know your situation fully. I am simply saying that there are better alternatives to medication for mild depression and axiety.
> 
> ...


Different people react differently to different drugs. My mood drops dangerously low if I forget to take my Citalopram, which implies that it works for me. You can't say that X drug does or doesn't work - all you can say is whether or not it works FOR YOU. Taking medication is a personal decision and shouldn't be influenced by the experiences of others.

*gets off soap box and has a cup of tea*


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## BigonaBianchi (9 Jan 2012)

BigonaBianchi said: ↑
FWIW my opinion is BEWARE THE MED PUSHING GP. In my experience they dish out ssri meds way to easily without any real advice to the patiant. Some of them are bloody horrible and take a LONG time to come off of. The worst in my experience is CITALOPRAM which seems to still be the drug of choice for GP's who should know better. Also beware of DIAZIPAN, this is NOT GOOD to withdraw from either. Trust me.​​There are situation that call for serious medical intervention. I do not know your situation fully. I am simply saying that there are better alternatives to medication for mild depression and axiety.​​Actually in my experience Citalopram only ever increased depression and axiety doing th eexact opposite it was supposed to do.​​The cure for anxiety is to have no fear of ANYTHING...pills only ever mask the problems temporarilly, the real answers are within each of us.​​


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## Andrew_P (10 Jan 2012)

Long story short when I had my first ever panic attack I thought I was having a heart attack, it was xmas eve and my GP prescriped me an angina spray "just in case" (WTF) and if it is panic as she thought Ativan as needed. Now I was in a bit of state so didn't really hear ll of this, when my wife returned with the prescription the Ativan had the instructions take 1-4 four times a day guess how many I took! the next thing I remembered as clear memory was sometime in January sitting in the GP's office asking for the Ativan to be refilled and her in a state of panic, even after this short amount of time the withdrawl was awful!!


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## Hugo15 (10 Jan 2012)

Had my ups and downs over the years..... About six months ago I hit a real down and was really struggling. I decided I had to go to my GP and thought that I was going to end up going down the meds route. My GP was brilliant, we talked about meds route but he also talked about something called Mindfullness. There is more about it at http://www.bemindful.co.uk/ It's based on meditation and there is a fair bit of clinical research to back it up too. He also recommended Mindfulness for Dummies..... yes I thought the same....... I feel terrible and you've prescribed a for dummies book........!! I couldn't have been more wrong. I found the book very helpful and worked through it with support from my GP. It also comes with a CD which helps you through the meditations. It's really helped me.


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## The Jogger (10 Jan 2012)

It's no longer the DDA the Equality Act now supersedes the DDA 
http://m.direct.gov.uk/syndicationC..._4001068&utn=537dd6f3c76b4868a538201201102228


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## BigonaBianchi (10 Jan 2012)

Panic attacks are the most horendous of things. They are the extreme manifestation of high anxiety usually caused by a sudden seriuous shock. The problem is that th ehuman brian has something called an amigdella(sp?) which controls the anxiety level we maintian. But it has a design flaw, it sticks at the high level and doesnt re set itself automatically. You have to conciously re set it via your own behaviour. It only responds to actions. So you have to behave as if everything was totally ok. In short be calm even when you are crapping yourself. You have to override your own fear. Then the amigdella will re set back down to a normal level. Some people are forced to behave like this because of their life situation, others arnt, so there are people who suffer continuosly from the effects of shocks (PTSD etc) ..then the docs prescribe meds which are addicitive etc...they mask the problem and leave the patient with horrible effects. The reality is that if you have no fear, panic attacks cannot exist, because anxiety is a symtom of fear, and panic attacks are the extreme manifestation of anxiety.

Notice I am talking only about anxiety here. Not depression.

jmho.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (10 Jan 2012)

I've been through depression, and 10 years later had it combined with workplace stress.

The key here is not to give a toss what the employer's opinion is. It's all about putting your own wellbeing first.

I was on on citalopram in my first battle, and can agree that it does not solve the problem. All the drugs can do is shut down your brain at night long enough for you to rest your way out of the exhaustion. They block seratonin, the chemical that drives the thought creation process, and therefore creates REM sleep. Depressives become exhausted because their minds don't rest, they stay in REM too long.
After a few months I bought a mountain bike - that's where the recovery really started, it helped me cope.
After two years I was off the pills, I wasn't cured.

3 years ago work became hell, then I got injured and couldn't cycle, and had to go through months of physio, with an employer viewing the one hour a week as skiving and a 'half day holiday', and ignoring me hauling myself up and down stairs with my arms alone. The next downward spiral began. This put me in front of a doctor again, and he recommended a talk to the occupational therapist regarding my rights as an employee, rethinking my life and counselling sessions.
I also took advice that led to me going to Tai Chi lessons (it really does change you!). And yes, mindfullness and the Dummies books are very good. I left every counselling session feeling as if a weight had been lifted.
All this helped far more than pills ever could.

I was made redundant late last year, and it was a relief! I was told that outside of that job was the real world, and life is good. I'm doing the same job now for a different company and it's actually fun. I'm working now to fuel holidays.

I'd recommend this to anyone - Go talk to a doctor and get things moving for you. If pills are needed ask for how long and what else will be done, as they aren't a cure. Be in control of your treatment. Get away from the employer's grasp and think things through - a doctor will most likely recommend some time off. My last employer wanted to put my completion of counselling in the bloody newsletter!! There are other jobs when you're better.

You and your life come first. Get informed. Get the options. Take control. Yes it's scarey, just do it by the numbers.



PS: Citalopram. It will make you feel worse at first, then it does it's stuff. It has benefits, but places limits on you. When you come off it the doses should be slowly decreased. Cold turkey will have you falling over and all sorts - I've been there!


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## MissTillyFlop (17 Jan 2012)

Does anyone have any experience of Abilify (aripiprazole)?

Also just seen the most horrendous stroy on Twitter about a guy that was fired for having depression (even though he was being treated for it):
https://twitter.com/#!/badlydrawnroy


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## ttcycle (17 Jan 2012)

Hi Tillyflop- I was on it very briefly (I was on Citalopram and Aripriprazole) both for just over a month only. The longest time I was on a antidepressant was my first year at University many years ago - came off that (Seroxat) and was put back on them in my final year - that made me feel as if I was not human- not emotions,no feelings and I eventually came off that.
I don't respond to medication at all - it makes me worse mentally and the depression gets very bad. It becomes one of those terminal fights with health professionals where when I am at my worst in terms of the depression and anxiety as to why I won't take medicine. 

It's a twofold thing, The side effects which pushes my insomnia into long term sleeplessness, twitchy legs, worsening of depression, palpitations and feeling restlessness and getting funny tastes in my mouth.

The thing I like the least is that I feel different on them, as if I am not me- I don't have the same quickness of thought and sharpness - of course this could be markers of depression where I tend to get foggy minded, lack ability to concentrate and have trouble finishing sentences but been on medicine compounds this and instead of making things easier it forces the symptoms deeper and makes the feel harder to deal with.

I also think it's pig headedness and I'm honest enough to say that - I am loathe to take medicine as I feel imperfect as if I hadn't arrived at wellness through my own means. What's helped is talking and therapy and understanding these things and myself.

However as a PS- mental health affects everyone differently, some people I know need to be on medicine to maintain their wellness, others not so, others a temporary thing..it's a very individual experience.


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## brockers (17 Jan 2012)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> They block seratonin, the chemical that drives the thought creation process


 
Just to be totally accurate, SSRIs don't block serotonin as such, they inhibit the reuptake bits on the original transmitting cell from reabsorbing the serotonin it's previously released, thus stimulating the release of more serotonin and increasing the amount in circulation - to effectively lighten your mood. Hopefully


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## postman (17 Jan 2012)

First i am going to say there are some great people on here.You are not alone.But do take some time off.There are more people out there suffering because they feel ashamed.Do not feel like that.Take advice from your Doctor but please take some time off work.Someone i know has just had four months off work.You should get help from work also on your return.Shorter hours on returning and lighter duties.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (18 Jan 2012)

brockers said:


> Just to be totally accurate, SSRIs don't block serotonin as such, they inhibit the reuptake bits on the original transmitting cell from reabsorbing the serotonin it's previously released, thus stimulating the release of more serotonin and increasing the amount in circulation - to effectively lighten your mood. Hopefully


 
Thanks for the correction  It's been a while since I read up on it.


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## pepecat (22 Jan 2012)

ttcycle said:


> I also think it's pig headedness and I'm honest enough to say that - I am loathe to take medicine as I feel imperfect as if I hadn't arrived at wellness through my own means. What's helped is talking and therapy and understanding these things and myself.


 
Yeah me too.... I'm crap at taking tablets. Forget, and also don't like the fact i should have to reply on chemicals to feel happy. Yes, I did take them sporadically for three years, and yes, they DO work for lots of people (and did for me when i was first ill), but i think you get to a point where you can make the decision not to take them. I took myself off citalopram last Oct, and haven't taken anything since. I found citalopram worked well for me, and coming off it gave me no side effects or 'cold turkey' at all. I had far worse experiences with seroxat and venlafaxine. Guess drugs work / react differently with different people.

Like ttcyclist, what's helped me the most has been talking therapy. Psychodynamic psychotherapy to be exact, once a week, for the last year. It's been hard, painful, annoying, frustrating and at times, a complete pain in the arse, but i'm learning stuff about myself and how / why i work the way i do, which hopefully will help me either not to get depression again (best case scenario) or, if it does bite again, to deal with it a bit better.


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