# Confused about weight loss



## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

What is the best heart rate zone to lose weight?

Right I am just under 16 stone and I am 5'10 in height, I am semi fit but just go through lazy spells, hence the weight. I am looking to get back down to about 14 stone, I am not interested in racing just losing weight.

I got a roller and have done just over 113 miles, I don't really have a training plan, I have just being going up and down the gears to pass the time. I am using a hybrid with an alfine hub on 26 inch wheels.

I have decided to try and do my training in a specific heart rate zone but I just want to make sure I am in the right zone for weight loss, I can deal with muscle mass at a later date, I just want to see results as quick as possible.

Today I tried to find out my max heart rate, I cycled at roughly 24mph for about 4 minuets but I could only get to 144bpm, I would have thought it should have been higher than this.

I decided to train in the heart rate of 100-110bpm, for 1 hour and 25 minutes but I just don't feel that I got anything out of the session, I only averaged 12.1 mph but just didn't feel overworked.

Below are my roller results, today result is in the heart rate zone but the last few before this where when I have been pushing a bit harder and feeling as though I have worked out.

DATE TIME MINUTES MILES AVERAGE MPH MAX MPH

04/01/10 - 00:35:10 - 8.38 - 14.3 - 23.5
05/01/10 - 00:40:00 - 9.08 - 13.6 - 24.5
06/01/10 - 00:30:45 - 6.51 - 12.7 - 20.9
07/01/10 - 00:00:00 - 0.00 0 0
08/01/10 - 01:00:00 - 15.25 - 15.2 - 25.3
09/01/10 - 00:00:00 0.00 0 0
10/01/10 - 01:03:56 - 16.63 - 15.6 - 25.5
11/01/10 - 00:00:00 0.00 0 0
12/01/10 - 01:05:02 - 18.38 - 16.9 - 24.9
13/01/10 - 01:20:00 - 21.85 - 16.3 - 25.3
14/01/10 - 00:00:00 0.00 0 0
15/01/10 - 01:25:00 - 17.17 - 12.1 - 24.4


So can someone help me as to what zone to train in?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded post

Mark


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## Bayerd (15 Jan 2010)

Have you lost any weight? That's similar to what I do on a regular basis on the road. Providing I eat when hungry and stop when full, I lose between 1-2lbs a week like this. I was 16+ stone in June last year, I'm now 12 8ish. I'm planning on increasing the milage as the weather improves, looking to get to about 12 3ish over the next couple of months.

Having never used a roller, is there any way of increasing resistance? My typical rides average 100ft of climbing for every mile travelled. I'm sure this also helps.


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## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

Bayerd said:


> Have you lost any weight? That's similar to what I do on a regular basis on the road. Providing I eat when hungry and stop when full, I lose between 1-2lbs a week like this. I was 16+ stone in June last year, I'm now 12 8ish. I'm planning on increasing the milage as the weather improves, looking to get to about 12 3ish over the next couple of months.
> 
> Having never used a roller, is there any way of increasing resistance? My typical rides average 100ft of climbing for every mile travelled. I'm sure this also helps.



Well done Bayerd on your weight loss, tremendous results, I would love to be close to your weight. 

I usually cycle on the road between March - November but as I do 12 hour shifts, I sometimes cant be bothered taking the bike on a 20 mile round commute. My commute to work is a descent of about 450 feet to sea level and vice versa on the way home, so there is hills involved...LOL

I have decided to try and use the roller for about an hour on the days that I am working and just get out on the road on my days off.

I have a tacx roller but I don't think you can add resistance.

Too be fair I have probably lost 4 pounds since the new year but I just want to make sure I am training properly for best results.


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## lukesdad (15 Jan 2010)

Slow down. Firstly you need to work out your max heart rate check the threads in training history on how to work this out. Then workout your zones properly not as some people do by just taking a % of their MHR that is wrong, you will need to know your Hr at rest to do this.

To lose weight you need to use more calories than you consume. At what rate you choose to burn the calories is up to you, but as you say you are reasonably fit anywhere in you aerobic zone would be fine IMO.depends where your comfort level is.

Just remember you must consume 85% in calories of what you burn otherwise your body will go into starvation mode and you wont lose weight.

Youve left out your heart rate on your roller stats. by the way.


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## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Slow down. Firstly you need to work out your max heart rate check the threads in training history on how to work this out. Then workout your zones properly not as some people do by just taking a % of their MHR that is wrong, you will need to know your Hr at rest to do this.
> 
> To lose weight you need to use more calories than you consume. At what rate you choose to burn the calories is up to you, but as you say you are reasonably fit anywhere in you aerobic zone would be fine IMO.depends where your comfort level is.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much for the detailed reply, I have only used the heart rate monitor today for the first time, I will look at my resting heart rate and report back.

I am quite happy to train at roughly 17mph as I feel that I am getting the best work out and sweat I just wantecd to know if this was most benificial in the short term.

Can you explain what you mean by _you must consume 85% in calories of what you burn otherwise your body will go into starvation mode and you wont lose weight. _Sorry but I no sure what this means.

Thanks


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## Garz (15 Jan 2010)

I'd agree, between 65-70% for between 45mins-2hrs is enough to burn fat effectively. The rest is down to discipline and diet. Take it gradually so theres more chance of you sticking it. Good luck, and enjoy!


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## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

User3143 said:


> As a rule of thumb your max HR is 220-your age. I'd say >70% of your HR and you are burning fat. Go out and ride on the road, very different then riding on some rollers.



220 -36 (age) = 184

184 x 70% = 129bpm

I would agree with this as I thought 100 - 110bpm just wasn't doing anything.

I will get out on the road but where I stay still has loads of snow and ICE

I can do a 30 miler on the road and you don't get the boredom or the numbness of the roller but for the moment the roller is serving a purpose but I am eager to get out on the road.


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## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> I'd agree, between 65-70% for between 45mins-2hrs is enough to burn fat effectively. The rest is down to discipline and diet. Take it gradually so theres more chance of you sticking it. Good luck, and enjoy!



Garz, thanks for the encouragement.

Diet, LOL, I am on the vodka the now but I will be trying for 1hr 40 min tomorrow at the higher mph.

I think if I can average at least 100 miles per week, then even a wee lapse should dent my weight loss too much


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## lukesdad (15 Jan 2010)

HR zones for example;*MHR*180* RHR *58. Recovery 131-143 Aerobic 143-156 Lactic 156-168 VO2 168+

Your test to get you to 144 was nowhere near tough enough,IMO your MHR is much higher. As you can see from the above example you will not be working that hard.

Dont get confused with a fat burning zone it is a falicy that you burn more fat at lower intensities of effort.


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## mcb2080 (15 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> HR zones for example;*MHR*180* RHR *58. Recovery 131-143 Aerobic 143-156 Lactic 156-168 VO2 168+
> 
> Your test to get you to 144 was nowhere near tough enough,IMO your MHR is much higher. As you can see from the above example you will not be working that hard.
> 
> Dont get confused with a fat burning zone it is a falicy that you burn more fat at lower intensities of effort.



LOL, my max hr was just entering the Aerobic zone. Agree that I could maybe have pushed harder but it is hard on a trainer when the back wheel is snaking all over the place.

Defo agree about the fat burning zone falicy, just didn't get anything out of my workout today.

I think I will just go with about 130bpm and work on increasing this over time as there is no way I could sit at 140+ for more than about 3 or 4 minutes without falling off.

I think I will go with 130 and max out a few times over my ride to increase stamina and strength.

Thanks again


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## lukesdad (15 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks very much for the detailed reply, I have only used the heart rate monitor today for the first time, I will look at my resting heart rate and report back.
> 
> I am quite happy to train at roughly 17mph as I feel that I am getting the best work out and sweat I just wantecd to know if this was most benificial in the short term.
> 
> ...



To get your RHR lie down somwhere quiet for 20mins with your monitor on take the lowest rate recorded not the average as your RHR.

Then to get your % for your zones subtract your RHR from your MHR. then take the % you are looking for from this figure and add Your RHR to it and it will give you the correct BPM for this % of MHR.

For example; MHR 180 RHR 60

180-60=120 70% of 120=84

84+60 = 144 BPM

This is the correct formulae to work out % of MHR for training zone purposes.

Below the 85% value the body automatically starts to prepare for starvation it is complicated but it begins to store,and will not readilly burn fat. It is the reason that diets dont work.


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## Riverman (16 Jan 2010)

Good on you mate for taking up the challenge of losing weight. 

One thing which may encourage you is that according to the BMI scale you are obese, although this depends on your age, you have roughly a BMI of 32 and anything above 30 is obese.

Are you quite muscular? If you are muscular you may not be obese but you will almost certainly be overweight.

Please don't be disheartened by what I just said. Being obese raises the risk of you developing all sorts of diseases. It can have the effect of encouraging one to lose weight.


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## ASC1951 (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> What is the best heart rate zone to lose weight?
> 
> Right I am just under 16 stone and I am 5'10 in height.... I am not interested in racing just losing weight.
> 
> I just want to see results as quick as possible.


Probably not what you want to hear, but -
- fretting about 'training zones' is a delusion. It might matter for competitive cyclists, but for someone who is 'semi-fit' it's just irrelevant for losing weight.
- eat properly, eat less and knock off the drink.

That "results as quick as possible" is a real give away. You got overweight by eating a bit too much, day after day, probably over months if not years. You have to lose weight the same way, by making small changes and sticking to them. It will take about as long.

If you try to lose 30lb with a six week frenzy of exercise, you will either a) fail or  get nearly there and be back to 16st by next winter.

[BTW, this is from someone who is consistently overweight, not a sanctimonious racing snake. But just look at any reputable dietary website, for instance http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/Weightlossmyths.aspx  ]


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

220 - minus your age is about as accurate as looking out of the window and picking a number!

Everyone is different, calculations are simply no good. If your training programme involves you working in specific zones then your max HR needs to be exact. Otherwise you are wasting your time to be honest. 

Depending on which way you want to do it, either trainer or on the road the process is still the same. Firstly though, the most important point to note is that you MUST be fully warmed up and be prepared to suffer for 10 minutes or so. Secondly, if you have not done such a strenuous exercise for a while, please get checked out at a GP first! As it will put a huge load on the ole' ticker

The idea is to gradually increase your effort over a given period of time, till you get to the point that there is nothing left, and I mean nothing left.

Personally I prefer doing the test on the road, rather than a trainer as you can get a better feel for the amount of effort involved.

So.....find yourself a nice long drag, NOT a hill, a drag. 

Then set yourself a marker, tree bush whatever, towards the top, say 50 yards from the summit. 

Do your 1/2hr or so warm up ride get back to the bottom of the drag, then focus on the marker and start to ascend. It is important to keep a nice even tempo and try and remain as smooth as possible. Try and also maintain the same speed all the way to your marker. But without changing down to many gears so as to interrupt your cadence.

Above all, remain seated at all times, just slowly increasing the effort.

Now here's the stinger! When you get level to your marker you should ideally be near enough flat out, that's NOT speed but flat out effort. 

Now get out of the saddle and sprint for all your life to the summit, that's your maximum heart rate. 

To be fair you may need to practise this a few times, then take an average reading.

You will soon know if you have done it right, because you will most likely throw up soon afterwards! Furthermore, your legs will feel like jelly and you'll have to stop to recover.

And yes I am a qualified cycle coach, before anyone asks.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

I'm a firm believer in interval training for weight loss. Working at maximum effort for a shorter period of time, followed by a short rest and repeat over and over again. Just make sure your heart rate doesn't go too high (and make sure your heart can take it)


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

I'm a firm believer in interval training for weight loss. Working at maximum effort for a shorter period of time, followed by a short rest and repeat over and over again. Just make sure your heart rate doesn't go too high (and make sure your heart can take it)


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> To get your RHR lie down somwhere quiet for 20mins with your monitor on take the lowest rate recorded not the average as your RHR.
> 
> Then to get your % for your zones subtract your RHR from your MHR. then take the % you are looking for from this figure and add Your RHR to it and it will give you the correct BPM for this % of MHR.
> 
> ...



Thanks again lukesdad for the explanation, I will will this out tonight once the house is quiet.

I just done a 70 minute session and managed to get my max heart rate up to 160, I know that there is still more pushing in this.

I done 20 miles and had an average heart rate of 133 so this will probably be in the aerobic zone I would imagine, for a fair bit of the session I was actually above 140 but when you take into account the warm up and warm down then I may have been approaching the anarobic zone.

I definitely knew that I worked out today


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> To get your RHR lie down somwhere quiet for 20mins with your monitor on take the lowest rate recorded not the average as your RHR.
> 
> Then to get your % for your zones subtract your RHR from your MHR. then take the % you are looking for from this figure and add Your RHR to it and it will give you the correct BPM for this % of MHR.
> 
> ...



Thanks again lukesdad for the explanation, I will will this out tonight once the house is quiet.

I just done a 70 minute session and managed to get my max heart rate up to 160, I know that there is still more pushing in this.

I done 20 miles and had an average heart rate of 133 so this will probably be in the aerobic zone I would imagine, for a fair bit of the session I was actually above 140 but when you take into account the warm up and warm down then I may have been approaching the anarobic zone.

I definitely knew that I worked out today


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

Riverman said:


> Good on you mate for taking up the challenge of losing weight.
> 
> One thing which may encourage you is that according to the BMI scale you are obese, although this depends on your age, you have roughly a BMI of 32 and anything above 30 is obese.
> 
> ...



Thanks Riverman for the words of encouragement.

Yeah, I am quite well built, when I tell people that I am 16 stone they actually say they didn't think I was that heavy(probably don't want to hurt my feelings)

Thanks for the straight talking on the overweight obese issues, I am going to get back to under 14 stone, that is my target.


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

Riverman said:


> Good on you mate for taking up the challenge of losing weight.
> 
> One thing which may encourage you is that according to the BMI scale you are obese, although this depends on your age, you have roughly a BMI of 32 and anything above 30 is obese.
> 
> ...



Thanks Riverman for the words of encouragement.

Yeah, I am quite well built, when I tell people that I am 16 stone they actually say they didn't think I was that heavy(probably don't want to hurt my feelings)

Thanks for the straight talking on the overweight obese issues, I am going to get back to under 14 stone, that is my target.


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

ASC1951 said:


> Probably not what you want to hear, but -
> - fretting about 'training zones' is a delusion. It might matter for competitive cyclists, but for someone who is 'semi-fit' it's just irrelevant for losing weight.
> - eat properly, eat less and knock off the drink.
> 
> ...



You are right ASC1951, I have been overweight for about 3 and a half years, Just before my wife gave birth.

Since the we yin came along I have either been working extra 12 hour shifts for cash or when my wife went back to work part time I was watching the we yin on my days off so my weight gradually went up as I was too tired to consider doing any form of excerise.

Now the kid has started nursery so I have free time on my days off so this will give me the chance to get at least 3 - 4 good 1 - 2 hour training session in a week and I will also be able to cycle to work on day shifts which is a 20 mile round journey with hills included.

I intend to change my diet to be more healthy and I will have one night off for a drink and some treats rather than just when ever I fancied it.

Cheers


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

ASC1951 said:


> Probably not what you want to hear, but -
> - fretting about 'training zones' is a delusion. It might matter for competitive cyclists, but for someone who is 'semi-fit' it's just irrelevant for losing weight.
> - eat properly, eat less and knock off the drink.
> 
> ...



You are right ASC1951, I have been overweight for about 3 and a half years, Just before my wife gave birth.

Since the we yin came along I have either been working extra 12 hour shifts for cash or when my wife went back to work part time I was watching the we yin on my days off so my weight gradually went up as I was too tired to consider doing any form of excerise.

Now the kid has started nursery so I have free time on my days off so this will give me the chance to get at least 3 - 4 good 1 - 2 hour training session in a week and I will also be able to cycle to work on day shifts which is a 20 mile round journey with hills included.

I intend to change my diet to be more healthy and I will have one night off for a drink and some treats rather than just when ever I fancied it.

Cheers


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks again lukesdad for the explanation, I will will this out tonight once the house is quiet.
> 
> I just done a 70 minute session and managed to get my max heart rate up to 160, I know that there is still more pushing in this.
> 
> ...



You re getting there. Do the ramping test as suggested earlier not dead accurate but good enough. You ll be short of you anerobic zone and believe it or not depending on Your MHR probably only just in your aerobic zone . But 70 mins at that bpm you ll be shifting that weight as long as your diet is sensible.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks again lukesdad for the explanation, I will will this out tonight once the house is quiet.
> 
> I just done a 70 minute session and managed to get my max heart rate up to 160, I know that there is still more pushing in this.
> 
> ...



You re getting there. Do the ramping test as suggested earlier not dead accurate but good enough. You ll be short of you anerobic zone and believe it or not depending on Your MHR probably only just in your aerobic zone . But 70 mins at that bpm you ll be shifting that weight as long as your diet is sensible.


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> 220 - minus your age is about as accurate as looking out of the window and picking a number!
> 
> Everyone is different, calculations are simply no good. If your training programme involves you working in specific zones then your max HR needs to be exact. Otherwise you are wasting your time to be honest.
> 
> ...



Thanks AlanW, you aren't anywhere near Glasgow by any chance?

I would like someone like you to push me as this is what I need.

I will keep in mind what you say when I get back out on the road and will post the results once the jelly feeling has passed


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> 220 - minus your age is about as accurate as looking out of the window and picking a number!
> 
> Everyone is different, calculations are simply no good. If your training programme involves you working in specific zones then your max HR needs to be exact. Otherwise you are wasting your time to be honest.
> 
> ...



Thanks AlanW, you aren't anywhere near Glasgow by any chance?

I would like someone like you to push me as this is what I need.

I will keep in mind what you say when I get back out on the road and will post the results once the jelly feeling has passed


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> I'm a firm believer in interval training for weight loss. Working at maximum effort for a shorter period of time, followed by a short rest and repeat over and over again. Just make sure your heart rate doesn't go too high (and make sure your heart can take it)



Hi darkstar, I have done two interval sessions that I got off a triathlon website training guide. they where quite good but I thought I would just try and stay in a heart rate zone until I build up more stamina then I might look at them again. I was also not using the heart rate monitor when doing these sessions so I am unsure just how much I tested out my heart.

Cheers


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## mcb2080 (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> I'm a firm believer in interval training for weight loss. Working at maximum effort for a shorter period of time, followed by a short rest and repeat over and over again. Just make sure your heart rate doesn't go too high (and make sure your heart can take it)



Hi darkstar, I have done two interval sessions that I got off a triathlon website training guide. they where quite good but I thought I would just try and stay in a heart rate zone until I build up more stamina then I might look at them again. I was also not using the heart rate monitor when doing these sessions so I am unsure just how much I tested out my heart.

Cheers


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Hi darkstar, I have done two interval sessions that I got off a triathlon website training guide. they where quite good but I thought I would just try and stay in a heart rate zone until I build up more stamina then I might look at them again. I was also not using the heart rate monitor when doing these sessions so I am unsure just how much I tested out my heart.
> 
> Cheers



You dont really want to be doing interval sessions to lose weight.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Hi darkstar, I have done two interval sessions that I got off a triathlon website training guide. they where quite good but I thought I would just try and stay in a heart rate zone until I build up more stamina then I might look at them again. I was also not using the heart rate monitor when doing these sessions so I am unsure just how much I tested out my heart.
> 
> Cheers



You dont really want to be doing interval sessions to lose weight.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> You dont really want to be doing interval sessions to lose weight.


Why not? What do you base that information on?

Mixing bursts of high intensity work with low intensity periods of recovery, you're overloading both the aerobic and anaerobic systems at the same time, getting the benefits of both aspects of training simultaneously. 

You can get a full workout in under an hour.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> You dont really want to be doing interval sessions to lose weight.


Why not? What do you base that information on?

Mixing bursts of high intensity work with low intensity periods of recovery, you're overloading both the aerobic and anaerobic systems at the same time, getting the benefits of both aspects of training simultaneously. 

You can get a full workout in under an hour.


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

To build up base fitness get loads of mileage in. To burn fat do long rides at low-ish intensity, contrary to what some (people) say push with interval and high intensity; it's more for going up to the next level or improving fitness which in my opinion is not targeting just 'burning fat'.

You can mix this up but only when you have done the donkey work and beginning to start sticking at a weight.


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

To build up base fitness get loads of mileage in. To burn fat do long rides at low-ish intensity, contrary to what some (people) say push with interval and high intensity; it's more for going up to the next level or improving fitness which in my opinion is not targeting just 'burning fat'.

You can mix this up but only when you have done the donkey work and beginning to start sticking at a weight.


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks AlanW, you aren't anywhere near Glasgow by any chance?
> 
> I would like someone like you to push me as this is what I need.
> 
> I will keep in mind what you say when I get back out on the road and will post the results once the jelly feeling has passed



Sadly not, sorry!

But listen, once upon a time when I was driving HGVs full time and pre cycling days my weight soared to a whopping 15 1/2 stone, and at 5' 9" that's not a pretty sight!!

Although to be fair, I was always on the 'large' side even when I was at school. 

But don't ask me what happened, or even why, but I decided that enough was enough and the weight just had to go. I started jogging, which progressed to running, which progressed to cycling.

I lost 3 1/2 stone in around 12 months, and I will admit now that I went to far and looking back at some photos I looked really ill.

The key is to remain focused and set small goals. Little and often is the key to success.

You can do it, and trust me, it will be worth the effort.


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks AlanW, you aren't anywhere near Glasgow by any chance?
> 
> I would like someone like you to push me as this is what I need.
> 
> I will keep in mind what you say when I get back out on the road and will post the results once the jelly feeling has passed



Sadly not, sorry!

But listen, once upon a time when I was driving HGVs full time and pre cycling days my weight soared to a whopping 15 1/2 stone, and at 5' 9" that's not a pretty sight!!

Although to be fair, I was always on the 'large' side even when I was at school. 

But don't ask me what happened, or even why, but I decided that enough was enough and the weight just had to go. I started jogging, which progressed to running, which progressed to cycling.

I lost 3 1/2 stone in around 12 months, and I will admit now that I went to far and looking back at some photos I looked really ill.

The key is to remain focused and set small goals. Little and often is the key to success.

You can do it, and trust me, it will be worth the effort.


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> To build up base fitness get loads of mileage in. To burn fat do long rides at low-ish intensity, contrary to what some (people) say push with interval and high intensity; it's more for going up to the next level or improving fitness which in my opinion is not targeting just 'burning fat'.
> 
> You can mix this up but only when you have done the donkey work and beginning to start sticking at a weight.



Exactly!

As the saying goes, "You can build a house on mud, but how long will it stay there for? But build a house on a solid foundation and it will stay there forever".


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> To build up base fitness get loads of mileage in. To burn fat do long rides at low-ish intensity, contrary to what some (people) say push with interval and high intensity; it's more for going up to the next level or improving fitness which in my opinion is not targeting just 'burning fat'.
> 
> You can mix this up but only when you have done the donkey work and beginning to start sticking at a weight.



Exactly!

As the saying goes, "You can build a house on mud, but how long will it stay there for? But build a house on a solid foundation and it will stay there forever".


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> once upon a time when I was driving HGVs full time and pre cycling days my weight soared to a whopping 15 1/2 stone, and at 5' 9" that's not a pretty sight!!



Nice change there Alan, a great achievement that!

How did you tangent off and become a cycle coach then mate?


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> once upon a time when I was driving HGVs full time and pre cycling days my weight soared to a whopping 15 1/2 stone, and at 5' 9" that's not a pretty sight!!



Nice change there Alan, a great achievement that!

How did you tangent off and become a cycle coach then mate?


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> Why not? What do you base that information on?
> 
> Mixing bursts of high intensity work with low intensity periods of recovery, you're overloading both the aerobic and anaerobic systems at the same time, getting the benefits of both aspects of training simultaneously.
> 
> You can get a full workout in under an hour.



Where do you want me start ? Firstly If you are only doing an hour session you will only be burning either your last meal or your glycogen level not fat reserve.

Secondly; " overloading anerobicly as you put it will only benefit your anerobic threshold. Overloading your aerobic system will put you into your anerobic system Re; above.

As I originally said prolonged efforts in an aerobic zone will be more beneficial as an aid to weight loss.

I think you are a little confused as to the benefits of training in a particular zone will bring.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> Why not? What do you base that information on?
> 
> Mixing bursts of high intensity work with low intensity periods of recovery, you're overloading both the aerobic and anaerobic systems at the same time, getting the benefits of both aspects of training simultaneously.
> 
> You can get a full workout in under an hour.



Where do you want me start ? Firstly If you are only doing an hour session you will only be burning either your last meal or your glycogen level not fat reserve.

Secondly; " overloading anerobicly as you put it will only benefit your anerobic threshold. Overloading your aerobic system will put you into your anerobic system Re; above.

As I originally said prolonged efforts in an aerobic zone will be more beneficial as an aid to weight loss.

I think you are a little confused as to the benefits of training in a particular zone will bring.


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## jimboalee (16 Jan 2010)

You don't have to do this. 

Since 1st Jan, I've lost 7.5lb.

I have been riding to work 28 miles per day in this freezing weather wearing the minimum to avoid frostbite.
More calories lost through windchill and clothing conductivity than the cycling.

I eat 25% of the calories burned, mainly in Protein after the rides and NOTHING before the rides.

I've been in the gym too.

I do three x 20 minute 'hills' sessions.
I am 50 and this morning had my HR at 181 and didn't feel any burn.
G knows where my max is?

The gym bike reckoned I burned 750 kCals total. That's not enough to even consider replacing. What I did was cook some steak mince with a pinch of chilli in it.

Todays session culminated at 425 watts, level 21 'hills' session max. the previous session was level 20 and I was sore a bit afterwards.
No soreness today.

Slimeguide fat% calipers say I've reduced 3% since 1st Jan.
That only equates to 5lb fat loss, so I guess the other 2.5lb is water.

All in all, I feel a lot better for it and aim to get to the gym again tmrw afternoon for another blast.


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## jimboalee (16 Jan 2010)

You don't have to do this. 

Since 1st Jan, I've lost 7.5lb.

I have been riding to work 28 miles per day in this freezing weather wearing the minimum to avoid frostbite.
More calories lost through windchill and clothing conductivity than the cycling.

I eat 25% of the calories burned, mainly in Protein after the rides and NOTHING before the rides.

I've been in the gym too.

I do three x 20 minute 'hills' sessions.
I am 50 and this morning had my HR at 181 and didn't feel any burn.
G knows where my max is?

The gym bike reckoned I burned 750 kCals total. That's not enough to even consider replacing. What I did was cook some steak mince with a pinch of chilli in it.

Todays session culminated at 425 watts, level 21 'hills' session max. the previous session was level 20 and I was sore a bit afterwards.
No soreness today.

Slimeguide fat% calipers say I've reduced 3% since 1st Jan.
That only equates to 5lb fat loss, so I guess the other 2.5lb is water.

All in all, I feel a lot better for it and aim to get to the gym again tmrw afternoon for another blast.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Ahhh Jimbo half a month younger than me.I thought you were ancient  Happy birthday. What are you doing in the gym you old softie


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Ahhh Jimbo half a month younger than me.I thought you were ancient  Happy birthday. What are you doing in the gym you old softie


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## davidg (16 Jan 2010)

known as the Captain Oates workout?!


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## davidg (16 Jan 2010)

known as the Captain Oates workout?!


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> Nice change there Alan, a great achievement that!
> 
> How did you tangent off and become a cycle coach then mate?



Long story, but in summary, like most people I started to do the club '10's', then the club '25's'. Then moved onto to open events.

It was only a matter of time before I fancied having a crack at a '50'. To be honest I preferred the longer event, than the explosive short blast of the '10's'.

In order to win our BAR trophy I had to complete in a '100' as well. But I really needed some coaching advice, but I had no one to turn to? So I enrolled on the two year ABCC home study coaching course and completed it in just six months. I then become our club coach and also the coach for the local triathlon club. 

I then went on to ride the '100' and won the BAR trophy. 

But sadly it wasn't without some consequences.  To train to ride for a '100' of course you need to bang some real long rides in, I'm talking 140+ mile rides. But on occasions my left knee would be really sore and painful. But being a typical cyclist I carried on regardless and tried to "ride it out".

Also as part of the training, we decided to ride to Weston Super Mare and back in a day, that's a 190 mile round trip. Which was completed in under 12 hours. 

Sadly this was the straw that broke the camels back and my left knee swelled up and locked straight as soon as we stopped on the sea front.  But then I had to ride back home again, and like a real prat I did, and guess what, it swelled up and locked up again when I got home. 

So what did I do....yep, rode another '100' the following week.  

But at 75 miles in and my left leg actually locked while I was riding and I fell from my bike. 

Needless to say I had the operation just three days later. Sadly though, this was not the end as I had to have another operation a number of months later because the opposite started to happen? I could not straighten my leg? This was down to a small scar fold under the knee cap, left behind from the first operation.

Racing and me finished as I was told that I may not get a second chance with my knee. So after a 12 month break away from riding altogether I started again, but riding Audax events instead.


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## AlanW (16 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> Nice change there Alan, a great achievement that!
> 
> How did you tangent off and become a cycle coach then mate?



Long story, but in summary, like most people I started to do the club '10's', then the club '25's'. Then moved onto to open events.

It was only a matter of time before I fancied having a crack at a '50'. To be honest I preferred the longer event, than the explosive short blast of the '10's'.

In order to win our BAR trophy I had to complete in a '100' as well. But I really needed some coaching advice, but I had no one to turn to? So I enrolled on the two year ABCC home study coaching course and completed it in just six months. I then become our club coach and also the coach for the local triathlon club. 

I then went on to ride the '100' and won the BAR trophy. 

But sadly it wasn't without some consequences.  To train to ride for a '100' of course you need to bang some real long rides in, I'm talking 140+ mile rides. But on occasions my left knee would be really sore and painful. But being a typical cyclist I carried on regardless and tried to "ride it out".

Also as part of the training, we decided to ride to Weston Super Mare and back in a day, that's a 190 mile round trip. Which was completed in under 12 hours. 

Sadly this was the straw that broke the camels back and my left knee swelled up and locked straight as soon as we stopped on the sea front.  But then I had to ride back home again, and like a real prat I did, and guess what, it swelled up and locked up again when I got home. 

So what did I do....yep, rode another '100' the following week.  

But at 75 miles in and my left leg actually locked while I was riding and I fell from my bike. 

Needless to say I had the operation just three days later. Sadly though, this was not the end as I had to have another operation a number of months later because the opposite started to happen? I could not straighten my leg? This was down to a small scar fold under the knee cap, left behind from the first operation.

Racing and me finished as I was told that I may not get a second chance with my knee. So after a 12 month break away from riding altogether I started again, but riding Audax events instead.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Where do you want me start ? Firstly If you are only doing an hour session you will only be burning either your last meal or your glycogen level not fat reserve.
> 
> Secondly; " overloading anerobicly as you put it will only benefit your anerobic threshold. Overloading your aerobic system will put you into your anerobic system Re; above.
> 
> ...


I'm not confused. I suppose there are many views on this subject. As for an hours worth of exercise just burning off your last meal, that is rubbish. That basically states that any form of aerobic movement only helps with weight loss if it's completed over a long period of time...

When i ever go through a cutting period, i eat 5 times a day, all small portions. Interval sessions every other day. Jogging on the other days. Works extremely well.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Where do you want me start ? Firstly If you are only doing an hour session you will only be burning either your last meal or your glycogen level not fat reserve.
> 
> Secondly; " overloading anerobicly as you put it will only benefit your anerobic threshold. Overloading your aerobic system will put you into your anerobic system Re; above.
> 
> ...


I'm not confused. I suppose there are many views on this subject. As for an hours worth of exercise just burning off your last meal, that is rubbish. That basically states that any form of aerobic movement only helps with weight loss if it's completed over a long period of time...

When i ever go through a cutting period, i eat 5 times a day, all small portions. Interval sessions every other day. Jogging on the other days. Works extremely well.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> I'm not confused. I suppose there are many views on this subject. As for an hours worth of exercise just burning off your last meal, that is rubbish. That basically states that any form of aerobic movement only helps with weight loss if it's completed over a long period of time...
> 
> When i ever go through a cutting period, i eat 5 times a day, all small portions. Interval sessions every other day. Jogging on the other days. Works extremely well.



Missing the point . It depends on time. i.e Lapse. & digestion time. I.e. content.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> I'm not confused. I suppose there are many views on this subject. As for an hours worth of exercise just burning off your last meal, that is rubbish. That basically states that any form of aerobic movement only helps with weight loss if it's completed over a long period of time...
> 
> When i ever go through a cutting period, i eat 5 times a day, all small portions. Interval sessions every other day. Jogging on the other days. Works extremely well.



Missing the point . It depends on time. i.e Lapse. & digestion time. I.e. content.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Missing the point . It depends on time. i.e Lapse. & digestion time. I.e. content.


Agree to disagree? You do what works for you, i'll do what works for me


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Missing the point . It depends on time. i.e Lapse. & digestion time. I.e. content.


Agree to disagree? You do what works for you, i'll do what works for me


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Yes, but we re trying to help the OP.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Yes, but we re trying to help the OP.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Yes, but we re trying to help the OP.



I was trying to help! Interval training has worked wonders for me before, there are more and more people advising people to use it. Jeez...


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Yes, but we re trying to help the OP.



I was trying to help! Interval training has worked wonders for me before, there are more and more people advising people to use it. Jeez...


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Hang on a minute. we re trying to help someone to loose weight here who has nt grasped MHR yet. Interval training has its uses dont get me wrong, But in this instance its not the correct route to follow and who are all " these people suggesting it is"?


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

Hang on a minute. we re trying to help someone to loose weight here who has nt grasped MHR yet. Interval training has its uses dont get me wrong, But in this instance its not the correct route to follow and who are all " these people suggesting it is"?


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

Mens Health- http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitne.../article/882a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd

Science Daily- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070627140103.htm

NPR- http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/08/running_hard_but_for_just_a_fe.html#more

Many more, but yes, ok Ambling along at 15 mph for hour on end is the sensible option.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

Mens Health- http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitne.../article/882a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd

Science Daily- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070627140103.htm

NPR- http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/08/running_hard_but_for_just_a_fe.html#more

Many more, but yes, ok Ambling along at 15 mph for hour on end is the sensible option.


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?

Firstly too much cycling can only add to the boredom and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.


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## Garz (16 Jan 2010)

What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?

Firstly too much cycling can only add to the boredom and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> Mens Health- http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitne.../article/882a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd
> 
> Science Daily- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070627140103.htm
> 
> ...


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## lukesdad (16 Jan 2010)

darkstar said:


> Mens Health- http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitne.../article/882a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd
> 
> Science Daily- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070627140103.htm
> 
> ...


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

Fair enough, were never going to agree.

My advice for the OP, do what you feel most comfortable doing.


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## darkstar (16 Jan 2010)

Fair enough, were never going to agree.

My advice for the OP, do what you feel most comfortable doing.


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## Bayerd (16 Jan 2010)

My advice to the OP, watch what you eat (ish), and each time you go out try and push enough to get breathless. Try and go out every day. 

It worked for me....

(and still does)


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## Bayerd (16 Jan 2010)

My advice to the OP, watch what you eat (ish), and each time you go out try and push enough to get breathless. Try and go out every day. 

It worked for me....

(and still does)


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## jimboalee (17 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?
> 
> Firstly too much cycling can only add to the boredom and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.



To answer your queerie, and Lukesdad's comment...

"There are NO HILLS in the West Midlands."

If I'm going to get through The Castleton Classic 200 Audax, my commute ride is not tough enough.
There are two 10% hills on my commute; and if I tackle them at 400+ Watts, they only last seconds.


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## jimboalee (17 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?
> 
> Firstly too much cycling can only add to the boredom and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.



To answer your queerie, and Lukesdad's comment...

"There are NO HILLS in the West Midlands."

If I'm going to get through The Castleton Classic 200 Audax, my commute ride is not tough enough.
There are two 10% hills on my commute; and if I tackle them at 400+ Watts, they only last seconds.


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## jimboalee (17 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?
> 
> Firstly *too much cycling can only add to the boredom* and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.



What I can't understand Garz is........


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## jimboalee (17 Jan 2010)

Garz said:


> What I cant understand jim is.. why you cycle to work (and possibly to the gym) then go on the stationary bike?
> 
> Firstly *too much cycling can only add to the boredom* and secondly the gym bike will be nowhere as comfortable as your own bike setup.



What I can't understand Garz is........


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## Garz (17 Jan 2010)

Jimbo before I got into cycling since my school years anything over 20mins on a stationary (gym) bike would be torture. With the introduction of portable music it got better but if I had the chance theres no way I would be on a stationary bike if I had the option to ride outdoors.

I guess as your training for the classic and are in the gym anyway...


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## Garz (17 Jan 2010)

Jimbo before I got into cycling since my school years anything over 20mins on a stationary (gym) bike would be torture. With the introduction of portable music it got better but if I had the chance theres no way I would be on a stationary bike if I had the option to ride outdoors.

I guess as your training for the classic and are in the gym anyway...


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## PK99 (17 Jan 2010)

User3143 said:


> As a rule of thumb your max HR is 220-your age. I'd say >70% of your HR and you are burning fat. Go out and ride on the road, very different then riding on some rollers.




Don't use that formula!

Do a test!

I'm 54.
220-54 = 166 max heart rate.

I cruise up steady climbs with minimal stress at 166!

Sub max test I've done suggest anything between 180 and 200 as my max.


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## PK99 (17 Jan 2010)

User3143 said:


> As a rule of thumb your max HR is 220-your age. I'd say >70% of your HR and you are burning fat. Go out and ride on the road, very different then riding on some rollers.




Don't use that formula!

Do a test!

I'm 54.
220-54 = 166 max heart rate.

I cruise up steady climbs with minimal stress at 166!

Sub max test I've done suggest anything between 180 and 200 as my max.


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## PK99 (17 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> 220 - minus your age is about as accurate as looking out of the window and picking a number!
> 
> .




I did read one time that the genesis of that formula was a couple of cardiologists heading off the a conference and doing a quick literature search of age vs max heart rate and plotting a linear fit. It was never intended as an exercise/training mantra but became one by accident.


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## PK99 (17 Jan 2010)

AlanW said:


> 220 - minus your age is about as accurate as looking out of the window and picking a number!
> 
> .




I did read one time that the genesis of that formula was a couple of cardiologists heading off the a conference and doing a quick literature search of age vs max heart rate and plotting a linear fit. It was never intended as an exercise/training mantra but became one by accident.


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## Bill Gates (18 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> *What is the best heart rate zone to lose weight?*
> 
> Right I am just under 16 stone and I am 5'10 in height, I am semi fit but just go through lazy spells, hence the weight. I am looking to get back down to about 14 stone, I am not interested in racing just losing weight.
> 
> ...



Hi Mark

If you want to lose weight then cycling will obviously help by burning calories and improve your CV system, which is a double whammy towards better health. If you were already very fit i.e. your CV system has been worked regularly over time then training in a particluar zone will have a relevance. 

As a rule of thumb if it's hard keep it short and allow for recovery; and if it's long keep it at a lower intensity so that you can do more of it on a more frequent basis. Both work the CV system and both burn calories.

If you are overweight then just by losing some lbs you will improve your CV system without doing anything else. If you are unfit then a not very big effort will raise your HR considerably so you have to build up to doing longer rides. 

If I were you I would just go out and ride your bike at a comfortable pace and slowly increase the distance. As you get fitter then you will be going faster for the same RPE (rate of perceived effort). Training in a particular HR zone will have more relevance later. More important is your ability to keep motivated and not overload your body's ability to recover by using too strict a schedule re number of hours in a HR zone.


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## Bill Gates (18 Jan 2010)

mcb2080 said:


> *What is the best heart rate zone to lose weight?*
> 
> Right I am just under 16 stone and I am 5'10 in height, I am semi fit but just go through lazy spells, hence the weight. I am looking to get back down to about 14 stone, I am not interested in racing just losing weight.
> 
> ...



Hi Mark

If you want to lose weight then cycling will obviously help by burning calories and improve your CV system, which is a double whammy towards better health. If you were already very fit i.e. your CV system has been worked regularly over time then training in a particluar zone will have a relevance. 

As a rule of thumb if it's hard keep it short and allow for recovery; and if it's long keep it at a lower intensity so that you can do more of it on a more frequent basis. Both work the CV system and both burn calories.

If you are overweight then just by losing some lbs you will improve your CV system without doing anything else. If you are unfit then a not very big effort will raise your HR considerably so you have to build up to doing longer rides. 

If I were you I would just go out and ride your bike at a comfortable pace and slowly increase the distance. As you get fitter then you will be going faster for the same RPE (rate of perceived effort). Training in a particular HR zone will have more relevance later. More important is your ability to keep motivated and not overload your body's ability to recover by using too strict a schedule re number of hours in a HR zone.


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