# So much for the great puncture proof Schwalbe Marathon Plus super tyres



## Roadhump (30 Nov 2016)

So many people swear by Schwalbe Marathon Plus, but I use them on my bike and today I had my third puncture this year. After he first one in January, caused by a piece of glass in the front wheel, I fitted a brand new M+ but 6 weeks later I had another puncture, caused again by a piece of glass in the front wheel. The photo shows the damage caused to that 6 week old tyre. Since then I have enjoyed 9 months and just over 3,000 miles of puncture free cycling, but today suffered another puncture, this time to my rear wheel. Whilst changing the tube I found the offending item, which seemed like a small metal shard - I could feel the sharp point but because of the thickness of the tread the item was embedded in the rubber and I couldn't get it out from the outside, neither could I pull it through to the inside. Eventually I had to use the flat screwdriver blade of my multi tool to gouge it out which caused a bigger hole and also resulted in me losing whatever caused the puncture.

I know nothing is absolutely fail safe, and even with the toughest tyres you can expect the occasional puncture, but looking at other threads in here, some people laud the M+ as indestructible, they aren't and in my case, I feel it is fair to say that they have failed to live up to their reputation, and indeed have failed to live up to Schwalbe's claims about their toughness. Perhaps I would have had more punctures if I had used another make but I am a bit cheesed off with Schwalbe M+ tyres at present and might try some other brand.


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## NorthernDave (30 Nov 2016)

I don't think any tyre is ever truly puncture proof, but there are different levels of protection and M+'s are at the upper end of that scale and you've probably been a bit unlucky.

That said, I find them horrible, hateful things. Slow, heavy and oddly able to combine a feeling of riding through treacle with an ability for a sudden and unexpected loss of grip in the wet.
I use Continental Gatorskins on my road bikes and Schwalbe Land Cruisers on my hybrid, but I'm sure that someone will be along soon who thinks that they're no good either!


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Nov 2016)

How do you think another brand of tyre would have performed under the same circumstances and why do you think another brand would be better or, worse?


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Nov 2016)

What Yellow Saddle said. Them is some major league penetrating objects you have there, nothing short of steel tyres would have stopped those. You've had an unlucky year. 
I've had M+ on my hybrid for 7 years with not a single puncture. I agree that they're not great tyres to ride and I'm not that big an advocate, they're heavy feeling and sluggish they're awful to get on and off a rim. But they are at the toughest end of the scale.


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## marshmella (30 Nov 2016)

Marathon + user here on my hybrid, yes skittish in the wet and as everyone says heavy but no problems so far. Just sounds like bad luck you' ve had.


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## Smokin Joe (30 Nov 2016)

Roadhump said:


> I know nothing is absolutely fail safe, and even with the toughest tyres you can expect the occasional puncture, but looking at other threads in here, some people laud the M+ as indestructible, they aren't and in my case, I feel it is fair to say that they have failed to live up to their reputation, and indeed have failed to live up to Schwalbe's claims about their toughness. Perhaps I would have had more punctures if I had used another make but I am a bit cheesed off with Schwalbe M+ tyres at present and might try some other brand.


Tyres are made of rubber, not tungsten. The tyres on my car are several times thicker than yours and I have had two punctures this year. 

If you ride over something sharp enough it will go through the tread.


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## Shut Up Legs (30 Nov 2016)

As the others said. Also, you need to regularly inspect the tyres, and remove any sharp objects before they spend too much time in the tyre. I've used M+ tyres on my commuter for 8 years and over 100,000km and only had a handful of punctures on them in that time. So another satisifed M+ user, here.


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## Banjo (30 Nov 2016)

Unfortunately tough light and fast can rarely be combined in one tyre.
Even tractor tyres get punctured occasionally.
Allways seems to be the way that you go ages without a fairy visit then get 2 or 3 in close succession.


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## I like Skol (30 Nov 2016)

Don't fight it man. Just embrace the puncture experience and learn to enjoy the superiority that comes from overcoming such a minor setback. A puncture should take no more the ten minutes out of your day with practice


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## shouldbeinbed (30 Nov 2016)

Maybe keep a better eye on the crud on the road too. 

Even with Marathons, I try to make a point of not rolling over chunks of glass or metal. 

Seems to work, no punctures for ages (jinxed that now haven't I)


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## Roadhump (30 Nov 2016)

Fair enough, no tyre is completely puncture proof, and with less robust tyres I may well have had more punctures. When I got home today, I entered "Schwalbe Marathon Plus" in the CC search box and found a number of thread entries saying how good they were and you just don't get punctures, which made me want to give a different perspective, hence this thread.

Some things that occur to me having read replies: I have never had a problem getting M+ tyres on or off the rims, I haven't really noticed their skittishness in the wet, although I have come off a couple of times, once on ice and once on a slippery mossy surface, and perhaps the thing I should really note for the future is that although I keep an eye on wear levels and swap the front and rear tyres to stop the rear wheel wearing out ages before the front one (not sure why, but there you go) I don't really inspect my tyres for damage, and that could have been what caught me out on one or more occasion.

I have used M+ for 3 years now but in view of comments about their heaviness, sluggishness and poor ride, I will probably try something else now; if I get 3 or fewer punctures in the next 12 months, I'm laughing.


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## mjr (30 Nov 2016)

That prominent centre seam and the way the tread is discontinuous looks a bit off to me - has someone been offloading seconds or clones?


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## Racing roadkill (30 Nov 2016)

I've only suffered one deflation in over 20000 miles of usage of the M+ tyres. You can get punctures, getting shards of toughened glass in between the tread sections is a common way to achieve it (riding over the bits of glass left over after a car has broken its headlights for example) only my Tannus tyres were truly puncture proof. I often have to be places before 05:30 in the morning, punctures are really bad news, the Schwalbe D+ on one of my road bikes, and the M+ on one of the Hybrids, have very very rarely dissapointed, the pay off of weight, and less than ideal rolling resistance is a price worth paying. I really didn't like the weirdness of the Tannus tyres, after about 5000 miles I swapped back to M+. If I want better riding feel, and rolling performance, I ride the road bikes with Continental GP4000S II or GP4 seasons on, because the (relatively) poor puncture performance is not a massive issue if I'm leisure riding, I have no deadline, and it's not stupid o' clock in the morning, dark, and freezing cold.


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Dec 2016)

User said:


> i think you have identified a problem. As highly puncture proof tyres, Marathon's can be a victim of their own success if people don't check them.


Well, Schwalbe obviously can't sell common-sense to their customers: that's entirely up to the latter.


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## Globalti (1 Dec 2016)

Anybody who has done two weeks of Jury Duty will have a clear appreciation of the way the laws of chance work as they get called down to Court then not selected. The OP has just discovered the laws of chance with regard to penetrating objects and tyres.

We run lightweight, soft, grippy tyres and I honestly don't think we suffer punctures any more often than we would with a "tough" tyre. If we do, the rate is acceptable at around one puncture every 700 to 1000 miles. The only difference is that lighter tyres are more easily damaged.


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## John the Monkey (1 Dec 2016)

[QUOTE 4579221, member: 259"]I never check mine. I've even stopped carrying a repair kit. Which is probably a bit daft.[/QUOTE]
No, not at all.


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## T4tomo (1 Dec 2016)

Banjo said:


> Unfortunately tough light and fast can rarely be combined in one tyre.
> Even tractor tyres get punctured occasionally.
> Allways seems to be the way that you go ages without a fairy visit then get 2 or 3 in close succession.


and have you tried getting tractor tyre on and off the rim? Needs a very good tyre lever


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## tobykenobi (1 Dec 2016)

Trying to beat the record here. I've had Marathon Plus tyres on my Dawes for almost 15 years. I think they are the "plus" ones - I'd need to go out and look. Anyway, probably had about 10 punctures in all that time. Not sure of the mileage. High in the early years with a a bit of touring and 50 miles a week commuting; much less now with some commuting of only a couple of miles each way and not every day. 

Of course, one of the punctures was this week! Looking at them closely I think they may need to be retired soon.



I like Skol said:


> Don't fight it man. Just embrace the puncture experience and learn to enjoy the superiority that comes from overcoming such a minor setback. A puncture should take no more the ten minutes out of your day with practice



Unless the spare inner tube you put in also has a puncture and you have to do the whole thing again. Doh!


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## I like Skol (1 Dec 2016)

T4tomo said:


> and have you tried getting tractor tyre on and off the rim? Needs a very good tyre lever


Actually, getting them off is the hard part....






I swapped these on the driveway with hand tools. Spent most of the day and a lot of sweat removing the old ones. The new tyres went on by hand (well, foot actually) without the use of levers.

The comments about watching the road for debris is not as daft as it sounds. I got regular punctures when I first started commuting, at least one every 2-3 months and obviously with this being random sometimes only days apart. 1 type of puncture was small glass splinters and often occurred shortly after riding through a certain park at or just after weekend. I concluded that the local yoofs were probably smashing bottles at weekends and although the mess was always swept up when I passed through the finer glass splinters remained. Once I stopped riding through that park and detoured around instead those punctures pretty well disappeared.
The other common source was larger items like screws, metal fragments, even a Stanley knife blade once, often picked up around the mid point of the commute as I passed near to the areas large civic tip. I began actively looking out for any bits & pieces that were a threat in this area and also avoiding the bits of no-mans land around traffic islands and in the chevroned areas as these were a haven for the crap that must have been falling from the vans, trucks, cars and trailers that were all heading to the tip. Those punctures have also stopped.
It is now unusual if I have more than two commuting punctures in a year. I am running the exact same brand and model of tyres and still don't check them for embedded items but simply by looking where I ride and avoiding the worst areas has made a massive difference to the puncture rate.


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## byegad (1 Dec 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> I don't think any tyre is ever truly puncture proof, but there are different levels of protection and M+'s are at the upper end of that scale and you've probably been a bit unlucky.
> 
> That said, I find them horrible, hateful things. Slow, heavy and oddly able to combine a feeling of riding through treacle with an ability for a sudden and unexpected loss of grip in the wet.
> I use Continental Gatorskins on my road bikes and Schwalbe Land Cruisers on my hybrid, but I'm sure that someone will be along soon who thinks that they're no good either!



Totally agree. They're slow and in my experience total swines to fit and remove. I know all about zip ties and lube to help but I gave up on them after 30 minutes of swearing, blood and swearing resulted in my calling Lady Byegad for a rescue vehicle one dark wet night in Darlington. (Did I mention swearing, there was a lot of that?)


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## Yellow Saddle (1 Dec 2016)

I like Skol said:


> Actually, getting them off is the hard part....
> 
> View attachment 153076
> 
> ...



Wise words indeed. I concur on every point raised. Has anyone noticed how many dry wall screws are strewn on the roads? Lethal, even for car tyres.


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## spen666 (1 Dec 2016)

I would suggest the OP may want to look closely at where he is riding, both in terms of routes and position on the road. To have so many major episodes with a Marathon Plus tyre suggests to me that they are ploughing through unsuitable debris rather than taking steps to avoid it.

Its a bit like complaining you have suffered crashes in your "safe" Volvo because you never bothered to steer it around obstacles


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## I like Skol (1 Dec 2016)

spen666 said:


> I would suggest the OP may want to look closely at where he is riding, both in terms of routes and position on the road. To have so many major episodes with a Marathon Plus tyre suggests to me that they are ploughing through unsuitable debris rather than taking steps to avoid it.
> 
> Its a bit like complaining you have suffered crashes in your "safe" Volvo because you never bothered to steer it around obstacles


Let's not turn this into an OP bashing exercise! Constructive advice is what is required, not blame and criticism.

EDIT: It is entirely possible that the OP has indeed just had some rotton luck.


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## TheJDog (1 Dec 2016)

Apart from two punctures in a week on a completely knackered rear M+ I've had no problems I can think of in the 5+ years or so I've been using them (or the Londons, which I think are rebadged M+).


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## spen666 (1 Dec 2016)

I like Skol said:


> Let's not turn this into an OP bashing exercise! Constructive advice is what is required, not blame and criticism.
> 
> EDIT: It is entirely possible that the OP has indeed just had some rotton luck.


Totally constructive advice:
1. Consider the routes OP is riding to avoid routes more likely to have debris where possible
2. Consider positioning on road to avoid debris


Can't be much more constructive than that.


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## mjr (1 Dec 2016)

byegad said:


> Totally agree. They're slow and in my experience total swines to fit and remove. I know all about zip ties and lube to help but I gave up on them after 30 minutes of swearing, blood and swearing resulted in my calling Lady Byegad for a rescue vehicle one dark wet night in Darlington. (Did I mention swearing, there was a lot of that?)


I carry this (or its £2 aldi clone) for the wet and cold but I ride most days and think I average about one a year:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW0vXnaefhs

It's a little messy (he edited out the bit where it splatters the rim and nearby floor with hard-to-remove sealant as you unscrew the canister) but it gets me home before my hands get cold. It's better to patch when you can because the tube is toast after using a can IMO and should be replaced fairly soon before the valve sticks open.


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## Roadhump (1 Dec 2016)

spen666 said:


> I would suggest the OP may want to look closely at where he is riding, both in terms of routes and position on the road. To have so many major episodes with a Marathon Plus tyre suggests to me that they are ploughing through unsuitable debris rather than taking steps to avoid it.
> 
> *Its a bit like complaining you have suffered crashes in your "safe" Volvo because you never bothered to steer it around obstacles*



Thank goodness there are cleverer people than me around here to point these things out...

Similar advice about being aware of where you are riding is given above, but without the accompanying patronising analogy. As it happens, my first puncture was on a main road, the second was on a wide combined footpath / cycle path and I noticed the third having just left a country lane and ridden along a cycle track for about 15 metres. I have used each of these routes hundreds of times before without incident. I would agree that cycle paths probably have more hazardous debris than your average road, and in recognition of that, I do try to keep my eyes peeled when using them. But that is no fail safe, especially if the light or weather is poor. The other perhaps significant thing is that all 3 of my M+ punctures have happened in winter months when there is more muck, slush and debris about.

In all honesty, as @I like Skol says, I have probably had an unlucky run, but after people's remarks about the poor ride and slower speed you get on the M+, I am inclined to go for a different make now and see if my speed / ride quality improve.


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## Racing roadkill (1 Dec 2016)

Roadhump said:


> Thank goodness there are cleverer people than me around here to point these things out...
> 
> Similar advice about being aware of where you are riding is given above, but without the accompanying patronising analogy. As it happens, my first puncture was on a main road, the second was on a wide combined footpath / cycle path and I noticed the third having just left a country lane and ridden along a cycle track for about 15 metres. I have used each of these routes hundreds of times before without incident. I would agree that cycle paths probably have more hazardous debris than your average road, and in recognition of that, I do try to keep my eyes peeled when using them. But that is no fail safe, especially if the light or weather is poor. The other perhaps significant thing is that all 3 of my M+ punctures have happened in winter months when there is more muck, slush and debris about.
> 
> In all honesty, as @I like Skol says, I have probably had an unlucky run, but after people's remarks about the poor ride and slower speed you get on the M+, I am inclined to go for a different make now and see if my speed / ride quality improve.


Riding a Schwalbe + tyre shod bike, then swapping to a lighter and not so heavily shielded tyre shod bike, in the same day is an eye opener. The Schwalbes do feel like you're riding through glue in comparison. However, at stupid o'clock in the morning, in the dark and cold ( about minus 6 C on one section this morning ) I'm not trying to win any races.


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## si_c (1 Dec 2016)

If you're looking for alternatives, I can highly recommend Vittoria Rubinos or Vintage AW tyres.

Provided I keep my tyre pressure ok I rarely get unwanted deflationary events. Even riding through some sketchy quality roads Ive had only 1 puncture this year when commuting. Add in how easy a tube change is with the AWs and I'm happy.


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## mjr (1 Dec 2016)

Roadhump said:


> but after people's remarks about the poor ride and slower speed you get on the M+, I am inclined to go for a different make now and see if my speed / ride quality improve.


I'd go for a different model. Schwalbe is still where it's at for compounds for commuting IMO. The new OneStar-based tyres are getting some love.

Vittoria are OK but seem to cut up quicker IMO.


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## NorthernDave (1 Dec 2016)

mjr said:


> Vittoria are OK but seem to cut up quicker IMO.



Both my road bikes had Vittoria tyres as standard - the Rubino Pros seemed really good until the weather turned and I found they suffer from a lack of grip in the wet, especially when climbing / putting the power down.
The Zaffiros on the other bike were good tyres but did cut up quickly, although I had no visits from the fairy on either set.

Both were replaced with Continental Gatorskins, which I'm more than happy with. German engineering where you need it most on a bike...


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## dim (1 Dec 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> Both my road bikes had Vittoria tyres as standard - the Rubino Pros seemed really good until the weather turned and I found they suffer from a lack of grip in the wet, especially when climbing / putting the power down.
> The Zaffiros on the other bike were good tyres but did cut up quickly, although I had no visits from the fairy on either set.
> 
> Both were replaced with Continental Gatorskins, which I'm more than happy with. German engineering where you need it most on a bike...



if you like Continental, and want a 'robust' tyre, Continental 4 seasons are a lot better than Gators and Gator Hardshell IMHO.... and I have used Gators, and they suck in the wet (Durano+ are also much better than Gators, both in grip and puncture resistance)

as for Marathon +, if you have 3 punctures in a short time period, you are very unlucky .... I don't think there is a more puncture proof tyre on the market, unless you go for solid rubber ... My daughter has a heavy Dutch Bike with loop frame and basket, and she cycles to work 6 times a week .... she has been using the same Marathon+ tyres for 4 years and not 1 puncture yet .... the tyres still look as though there is a few more years left in them


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Dec 2016)

Roadhump said:


> I am inclined to go for a different make now and see if my speed / ride quality improve.


May I recommend the Marathon Original Greenguard?


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## NorthernDave (1 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> if you like Continental, and want a 'robust' tyre, Continental 4 seasons are a lot better than Gators and Gator Hardshell IMHO.... and I have used Gators, and they suck in the wet (Durano+ are also much better than Gators, both in grip and puncture resistance)



Thanks for the advice - I've had a set of Gators on one bike for over a year and they did me all through last winter and a couple of wet sportives (one very wet!) and never missed a beat - I've not had any problems with them in the wet but you're not the first person to mention that to me. I've heard good things about 4 seasons, but even on promotion they're nearly double the price I paid for the Gators and I'm reluctant to spend that much more when the Gators have performed so well for me.


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## Tiger10 (1 Dec 2016)

Banjo said:


> Unfortunately tough light and fast can rarely be combined in one tyre.
> Even tractor tyres get punctured occasionally.
> Allways seems to be the way that you go ages without a fairy visit then get 2 or 3 in close succession.


I can verify this as i had 3 punctures in close succession one autumn, found the problem in the end ......it was a rambler!!!


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## froze (2 Dec 2016)

Yup, no tire is puncture proof, and Schwalbe never said any of their tires were puncture proof.


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## mjr (2 Dec 2016)

froze said:


> Yup, no tire is puncture proof, and Schwalbe never said any of their tires were puncture proof.


To be fair, they label the Marathon Plus as "unplattbar" or "unflattable" although their English translation is "flat-less" which is a double meaning.


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## mustang1 (2 Dec 2016)

I had a problem with my M supreme plus after a couple of days but I can't blame the tire for that. After that incident, I had no further problems until i gave the bike away a couple of years later. Sorry you had problems with it though, always a bummer when something doesn't meet expectations.


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## MarkF (2 Dec 2016)

[QUOTE 4579221, member: 259"]I never check mine. I've even stopped carrying a repair kit. Which is probably a bit daft.[/QUOTE]

I am the same, haven't carried a repair kit for years when I ride the 2 bikes I own shod with M+'s. The Discovery 501 has done many 1000's of miles in over a decade, on the same set of tyres and without one puncture, usually on rough, debris littered surfaces. They must be the cheapest tyres considering how long they last.


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## Racing roadkill (2 Dec 2016)

froze said:


> Yup, no tire is puncture proof, and Schwalbe never said any of their tires were puncture proof.



These are puncture proof.

http://www.tannus.co.uk/#tires


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## byegad (2 Dec 2016)

mjr said:


> I carry this (or its £2 aldi clone) for the wet and cold but I ride most days and think I average about one a year:
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW0vXnaefhs
> 
> It's a little messy (he edited out the bit where it splatters the rim and nearby floor with hard-to-remove sealant as you unscrew the canister) but it gets me home before my hands get cold. It's better to patch when you can because the tube is toast after using a can IMO and should be replaced fairly soon before the valve sticks open.




Me too. That and CO2 inflator gets me home 95/100 times.


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## Roadhump (2 Dec 2016)

Some people here have achieved some great distances with little trouble from punctures....20,000 miles with only 1 deflation, blimey I wonder if that is a record?

I thought about sticking with M+ for the winter, but nowhere local had them in stock so I went for the Specialized All Condition Armadillo (went for the foldable version). I got 2 to avoid running an M+ on one wheel and a Specialized on the other - hoping to give them a try tomorrow. 

Talking to the bloke in the LBS was a reality check I suppose. Although I have had 3 M+ punctures this year, 2 only about 500 miles apart, the third was after another 3,000 miles which he said was excellent, even on a tyre as tough as the M+. He said they are really good, tough tyres and more puncture resistant than most, the All Condition Armadillos are supposed to be pretty good too, and should give a better ride, but probably won't get 3,000 miles without a puncture....and I shall be carrying a repair kit in anticipation...


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## si_c (2 Dec 2016)

Roadhump said:


>



I've run armadillo tyres before, they're pretty dependable. Rather run a folding bead tyre with a puncture every 1500 miles than a tyre that has a reputation for being awkward when trying to change tubes and get one every 3000.


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## mjr (2 Dec 2016)

si_c said:


> I've run armadillo tyres before, they're pretty dependable. Rather run a folding bead tyre with a puncture every 1500 miles than a tyre that has a reputation for being awkward when trying to change tubes and get one every 3000.


My last armadillo was a more sluggish ride than a M+ and it didn't puncture easily but when it failed, it got a sharp stuck between the rubber and the protection in a sort of bubble which was completely impossible to remove at the roadside. Cue long walk home.


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