# how do i improve my hills?



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

Not sure if this is the right place, im not a beginner, been riding nearly 2 years, taking it seriously for a year, i love it and ive done a few charity rides (nightrider in london and 211 miles from wales to stonehenge) but,i am utterly rubbish on hills (Wales almost killed me!). i defeat myself before i start, convinced i cant do it, i plod at the slowest speed ever and i really want to improve (when i am out with the group and my OH i feel im holding them back) so how do i improve, is it just a case of keep plodding and it will come, or is there specific training i can do? i ride a trek lexa slx wsd.


----------



## welsh dragon (20 Feb 2014)

I live in Wales and avoid them at all costs because I am rubbish. I can't do them, because I'm just not fit enough yet. Someone else will be able to help you though and will be along soon I'm sure.


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

lol, they almost killed me! i knew it was hilly in wales but not almost vertical!


----------



## welsh dragon (20 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> lol, they almost killed me! i knew it was hilly in wales but not almost vertical!



Yes it is. Not The best place to cycle nor the easiest, thats for sure.


----------



## Steve H (20 Feb 2014)

Fortunately and unfortunately the answer to your question is fairly easy:-

In order to get better at riding up hills, do more riding up hills.

I'm sorry there is no miracle cure for this one, you just have to get out there and do more riding.

At nearly 17 stone, I've always struggled with the Yorkshire hills that surround where I live. I go out with a club quite regularly and always get whooped on the hills. Been riding more over the winter though and I'm getting better at them. The more miles I get in and the more hill work I have done the better I am on the hills.

I guess I could lose a load of weight to help with climbing, but I don't seem to have the discipline required. If you have better eating discipline, then this will also make a difference as there is less of you to drag up the hill.


----------



## totallyfixed (20 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> not sure if this is the right place, im not a beginner, been riding nearly 2 years, taking it seriously for a year, i love it and ive done a few charity rides (nightrider in london and 211 miles from wales to stonehenge) but,i am utterly rubbish on hills (Wales almost killed me!). i defeat myself before i start, convinced i cant do it, i plod at the slowest speed ever and i really want to improve (when i am out with the group and my OH i feel im holding them back) so how do i improve, is it just a case of keep plodding and it will come, or is there specific training i can do? i ride a trek lexa slx wsd.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but riding for 2 years is still a beginner, lots to learn still. You are not far away from us here in Rutland, so if you want to come over for some practical tips we would be happy to help. We have a little experience in climbing hills.


----------



## ColinJ (20 Feb 2014)

You have quite a few testing little hills to the NW, not far from Nuneaton. For instance, I was quite surprised by the climb from Grendon up through Baddesley Ensor on one of my Midlands rides. Plenty of hills for you to practice on round there.

How quickly you can ride up hills is mainly a question of power-to-weight ratio. I'm assuming from your forum name that you can't really lose much weight, so you will have to increase your power instead. Do plenty of riding and it should come. I'll leave it to others to suggest detailed training plans, but I would suggest a mixture of longer and shorter rides, some easy efforts, some hard, and take whatever time you need to recover between rides.

If you are overgeared on steep climbs, then that isn't going to help. If you need them, don't be afraid to fit lower gears to your bike and use them while you are training to get fit enough not to need them any longer!


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Feb 2014)

How often and how far do you ride now?


----------



## gavroche (20 Feb 2014)

The truth is, some people are better than others at riding hills. I think it is in-built and that is it. If you can't ride hills ( like me) no matter how much you train, you still won't do it. Yes, you will improve but only slightly. Look at Cavendish, great rider on the flat and fantastic sprinter but put a hill in front of him and he is left behind. We can't excel at everything. Know your limitations and just enjoy your rides. There is no harm in avoiding hills if you can, cycling is not just about hills. There is a whole lot of pleasure to get from it without being paranoid about hills.


----------



## totallyfixed (20 Feb 2014)

Just looked at your avatar pic, and I am going to assume you are reasonably fit, not very tall and hopefully nothing that physically makes riding difficult. If this is true then your bike [from what I can see] is set up more as per a touring bike, by this I mean the saddle is either the same height as the bars or even a bit lower. Either way bike handling, technique and wind cheating would all be improved by lowering the front end.
Talk to my better half, dr_pink on here if you want clarification of the above.


----------



## PK99 (20 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> not sure if this is the right place, im not a beginner, been riding nearly 2 years, taking it seriously for a year, i love it and ive done a few charity rides (nightrider in london and 211 miles from wales to stonehenge) but,i am utterly rubbish on hills (Wales almost killed me!). i defeat myself before i start, convinced i cant do it, i plod at the slowest speed ever and i really want to improve (when i am out with the group and my OH i feel im holding them back) so how do i improve, is it just a case of keep plodding and it will come, or is there specific training i can do? i ride a trek lexa slx wsd.



Keep plodding and you will get better - but slowly... and you will not recognise you are getting better as you are still tail end charlie, as you impove they will go faster so you are still the one at the back. Being the one at the back is soul destroying and I;m sure may of us her hve the tee shirts and scars to prove that!

Better:
Find a steady hill close to home that takes you around 5 minutes to ride up such that you can do it reasonably comfortably but you have to work.
Ride up, keeping a cadence of 60rpm or so (ideally you want higher than that but you say you are a beginner and it takes a while to get used to higher cadences esp on hills)
Roll down.
Ride up.
Roll down.
repeat for a total of 5 climbs.

Go home, have a banana, a coffee and a shower.

Repeat later in the week, at least one rest day in between.

do that for a week or two

As it gets easier, make it harder for yourself: More repetitions, higher gear, higher cadence/speed.

You will get better, and, because you are repeating the same climb you will easily recognise you are getting better/faster/less knackered.

That is how i improved my hill climbing
When I started cycling properly 6-7 years ago Box hill in Surrey nearly killed me. Heart rate 160-170 (my max is around 180), mutliple stops. Now i can cruise up on the way home after a 50 mile ride with heart rate around 135


----------



## SatNavSaysStraightOn (20 Feb 2014)

just keep at them and don't give up. It is possible to improve on them, I have done. 
also look at your gear ratios (and get some lower granny gears, and accept the use of them). 
plus I think crank arm length can make a difference but can't remember which way around it is (shorter or longer).... someone else will be along hopefully to clarify that one...


----------



## HLaB (20 Feb 2014)

If you are reasonably fit you may look at your gearing, perhaps considera bigger cassette (IIRC Froome was beaten in the Vuelta by Nibali who had a larger cassette) by if you aren't practice is the only key.


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> You have quite a few testing little hills to the NW, not far from Nuneaton. For instance, I was quite surprised by the climb from Grendon up through Baddesley Ensor on one of my Midlands rides. Plenty of hills for you to practice on round there.
> 
> How quickly you can ride up hills is mainly a question of power-to-weight ratio. I'm assuming from your forum name that you can't really lose much weight, so you will have to increase your power instead. Do plenty of riding and it should come. I'll leave it to there to suggest detailed training plans, but I would suggest a mixture of longer and shorter rides, some easy efforts, some hard, and take whatever time you need to recover between rides.
> 
> If you are overgeared on steep climbs, then that isn't going to help. If you need them, don't be afraid to fit lower gears to your bike and use them while you are training to get fit enough not to need them any longer!


 
actually the opposite my user name is tongue in cheek lol, i am losing at the moment as i know losing weight is a factor in the hills! hadnt thought of grendon to baddesley! i tend to go the other way (although steeppy is a good one by ridge lane) thanks all for the advice, i am trying to just get out there and go for it! at present its 1 big 40-50 mile ride at the weekends and a couple of turbo sessions in the week, as the weather and light improves it will be 2x 30 miles and a 40-50 mile a week. thanks for taking the time to answer! it is very much appreciated. right hills here i come.


----------



## Rob3rt (20 Feb 2014)

Very long hills (18+ minutes): improve threshold, reduce weight
Long hills (10+ minute): improve threshold + power at VO2 max, reduce weight
Short hills (3-8 minute): improve power at VO2 max, reduce weight
Very short hills (<1.5 mins): improve anaerobic power, upper body and core strength, reduce weight

All of the above can be done on the flat or uphill.

Ultimately, weight needs to come down or power needs to go up, ideally both weight comes down AND power goes up!

Then if you get serious, buy a hacksaw and start chopping redundant bits of your bike off!



gavroche said:


> The truth is, some people are better than others at riding hills. I think it is in-built and that is it. If you can't ride hills ( like me) no matter how much you train, you still won't do it. Yes, you will improve but only slightly. Look at Cavendish, great rider on the flat and fantastic sprinter but put a hill in front of him and he is left behind. We can't excel at everything. Know your limitations and just enjoy your rides. There is no harm in avoiding hills if you can, cycling is not just about hills. There is a whole lot of pleasure to get from it without being paranoid about hills.



Some people may be better at riding up hills than others, but the degree degree of competence/ability most people could achieve is way beyond what they are likely to achieve if they adopt an attitude like yours. The reality is people like you are not willing to hurt for it, that is why you can't get any better! That is fine if you don't want to hurt for it, but to suggest others can't improve based on some silly theory spawned from your unwillingness to endure pain is rather absurd.


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

and yes, i am short lol.


----------



## ColinJ (20 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> actually the opposite my user name is tongue in cheek lol, i am losing at the moment as i know losing weight is a factor in the hills!


It is a _huge_ factor! I have lost about 50 pounds over the last 18 months and it has made riding much easier on the big hills round here.

The thing is - as you lose weight, you should be getting fitter at the same time so you will be getting twice the benefit in terms of that power-to-weight ratio.

I know several very fit short women who are great at riding uphill. Once you get your weight down and get some quality miles in on your bike I am sure you will enjoy the hills a lot more.


----------



## NealM (20 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Some people may be better at riding up hills than others, but the degree degree of competence/ability most people could achieve is way beyond what they are likely to achieve if they adopt an attitude like yours. The reality is people like you are not willing to hurt for it, that is why you can't get any better! That is fine if you don't want to hurt for it, but to suggest others can't improve based on some silly theory spawned from your unwillingness to endure pain is rather absurd.


Well said . . I'm currently trying to improve my hill climbing ability . . I've found a short course near where I work that allows me to get out in my lunch hour . . and there are a couple of 10% hills along the route (I know this probably isn't very steep for some people here !! ) . . For the first couple of weeks I had to walk the last part of the hills (and heart rate was at 190 BPM). . But now I can at least ride all the way up . . . So improvement is always possible ..


----------



## totallyfixed (20 Feb 2014)

The idea that you can only slowly get better at climbing hills is quite frankly, nonsense. It is in fact possible for just about anyone to improve dramatically in a relative short period of time.


----------



## Hacienda71 (20 Feb 2014)

Not a scientific view but I find riding hills can be a mental battle as well as a physical one. This can be magnified if you are riding in a group when someone flying past you with relative ease can reduce your confidence. If you have ridden the hill before you can plan how to ride it, you know it's idosyncrasies where it ramps up where to get out of the saddle and attack the short sharp incline before sitting back down again and tapping out a rhythm etc. Ultimately though as said the most important factors are weight power and fitness.


----------



## Rob3rt (20 Feb 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> The idea that you can only slowly get better at climbing hills is quite frankly, nonsense. It is in fact possible for just about anyone to improve dramatically in a relative short period of time.



Agree, especially shorter hills <~8 mins in duration. Power at VO2 max is much more easy to come and go than power at threshold IME. I improved my 3-5 minute power by approx 20% during last years HC season (which is a matter of weeks long) and I wasn't coming at it from a particularly low baseline either.


----------



## SatNavSaysStraightOn (20 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> It is a _huge_ factor! I have lost about 50 pounds over the last 18 months and it has made riding much easier on the big hills round here.
> 
> The thing is - as you lose weight, you should be getting fitter at the same time so you will be getting twice the benefit in terms of that power-to-weight ratio.
> 
> I know several very fit short women who are great at riding uphill. Once you get your weight down and get some quality miles in on your bike I am sure you will enjoy the hills a lot more.


working hard to get a few more lbs off before end of march... 
and hopefully some hill training in Scotland the week before should help considerably...


----------



## Libby (20 Feb 2014)

Hi, I can't say that I am particularly good at hills either and as I am no skinny minny I doubt if I ever will be, but as my main focus is time trials I try not to let it bother me too much. I am now in my 3rd year of cycling though and have noticed that I am much better than I was. I don't live far from you (near Bedworth) so know that there is a definite lack of proper hills within easy reach but the Atherstone one or Hartshill are both pretty good for practicing on.

I don't know if you go out with a club but I have found club rides have helped me as they do force me to go up hills quicker than I would on my own!


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

just think about he big drop on the other side! 
and think how big your thighs are getting 
Cheers Ed


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

Libby said:


> Hi, I can't say that I am particularly good at hills either and as I am no skinny minny I doubt if I ever will be, but as my main focus is time trials I try not to let it bother me too much. I am now in my 3rd year of cycling though and have noticed that I am much better than I was. I don't live far from you (near Bedworth) so know that there is a definite lack of proper hills within easy reach but the Atherstone one or Hartshill are both pretty good for practicing on.
> 
> I don't know if you go out with a club but I have found club rides have helped me as they do force me to go up hills quicker than I would on my own!



libby who do you ride with? i go out on a sunday but its not a club as such, we ride for fun and its helped me come on in confidence no end but always on the look out for other rides lol. i was going to ride with the warwickshire ladies but as we only have 1 car a lot of the time i cant get to the starts. the atherstone one is my nemesis, i fell off going up it and, i think mentally thats why i struggle so much, straight away im thinking aww pants another hill! my blokey is fab, when we go out together he acts as my coach as he is a strong rider (been doing for less time than me but hes a natural rider) but i want to be able to ride up hills with him not 10 miles behind lol.


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> just think about he big drop on the other side!
> and think how big your thighs are getting
> Cheers Ed


haha love it, the drop is the best bit (now ive got used to speed lol) im pretty proud of my muscles, i also dance and you can tell my legs are different to the other girls.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> haha love it, the drop is the best bit (now ive got used to speed lol) im pretty proud of my muscles, i also dance and you can tell my legs are different to the other girls.


flying down one of the local drops at 31.something chasing the 30 mph speed limit signs half way down is great fun
i love trying to speed on a bike! 
Cheers Ed


----------



## albion (20 Feb 2014)

If going slow are you plodding in too high a gear?

I now usually overdo it on the granny gears to protect the dodgy knees and hip, but hills is where I now catch the fast overtaking cyclists.


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

If anyone wants to become strong at hill climbing the the only real options are to lose weight, unless already close to optimum, and to be prepared to suffer. As Robert indelicately put, there is no excuse for not getting better, which only happens if you are not prepared to put the effort on.

I am a beginner and have identified hill climbing as an area I need a lot of improvement on. So I cycle to my longest local hills and do as many hill repeats as I can manage.


----------



## shortone (20 Feb 2014)

Don't be fooled peeps, Slimzoe is better than she makes out. OH here, at work as usual.
Yes an improvement in the hills would be an advantage but all other aspects of her riding are spot on and coming along nicely.
She can quite happily cruse at 18+ on the flat without over stretching herself.
Technique with gear selection and controlling cadence are one of the areas we are working on.
Oh and the biggest hurdle is self confidence Zoe does not believe she is as good as she is. Do you Hunni?
So far we have two good rides planned this year. nightrider 100k in June and 100 miler from Nuneaton to Skeggness. We are also considering the Shakespeare ride in Aug either 100k or 100 miles, but the 100 miler looks like a very hilly second half.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> If anyone wants to become strong at hill climbing the the only real options are to lose weight, unless already close to optimum, and to be prepared to suffer. As Robert indelicately put, there is no excuse for not getting better, which only happens if you are not prepared to put the effort on.
> 
> I am a beginner and have identified hill climbing as an area I need a lot of improvement on. So I cycle to my longest local hills and do as many hill repeats as I can manage.


i'm okay on hills but not the worlds fastest  i could go up and DOWN any of the hills anywhere near here (within about 30 miles) all day! and i can't really lose weight as i am border line almost underweight as it is! what do i do?
Cheers Ed


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

Ed you just have to be a bit innovative to make things harder. Either try and spin a harder gear (not grind) or what I am starting to do, if the hill is not tough enough in itself, is to sprint sections of it. So pick a spot half way up the climb, a lamppost maybe, and gun it for the next two lampposts. After that settle into normal rythym for rest of hill.


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> i'm okay on hills but not the worlds fastest  i could go up and DOWN any of the hills anywhere near here (within about 30 miles) all day! and i can't really lose weight as i am border line almost underweight as it is! what do i do?
> Cheers Ed


Ty riding your bike more often then and spend less time fettling!


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> Ed you just have to be a bit innovative to make things harder. Either try and spin a harder gear (not grind) or what I am starting to do, if the hill is not tough enough in itself, is to sprint sections of it. So pick a spot half way up the climb, a lamppost maybe, and gun it for the next two lampposts. After that settle into normal rythym for rest of hill.


top gear CHECK
spinning pretty fast CHECK 
bum slightly out of saddle head down aero position sprinting on a flat bar hybrid CHECK

what do i do now?!


uclown2002 said:


> Ty riding your bike more often then and spend less time fettling!


but then it won't be as good on that rare occasion that i do ride it! well it isn't even so 
Cheers Ed


----------



## gavroche (20 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Very long hills (18+ minutes): improve threshold, reduce weight
> Long hills (10+ minute): improve threshold + power at VO2 max, reduce weight
> Short hills (3-8 minute): improve power at VO2 max, reduce weight
> Very short hills (<1.5 mins): improve anaerobic power, upper body and core strength, reduce weight
> ...


I am sure that Cavendish knows all about pain, and probably more than you and yet, he is useless in the mountains, therefore my theory is not so bad. As for me , I can enjoy my cycling without the hills and pain is not high on my list of priorities.


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

Sounds like you are already pretty good at the hills then young Ed!

Always room to improve though so just keep working hard. Just wish that I had your youth on my side in my cycling progress....


----------



## MikeG (20 Feb 2014)

I have recently joined a cycle club and so am riding regularly with other people for the first time. Frankly, I am astonished at how badly men seem to ride up hills!

Is it a macho thing? Why is it that everyone seems to try to go up in too high a gear, and stands up on the pedals rather than changing down a gear or two? I never, ever, stand up, and spin 50% faster than most of the people I ride with......and the only trouble I have on hills is with all the others in front of me getting in the way. I am absolutely convinced that people try to get up hills using strength, when they should actually get up using endurance. I noticed a lot more riders on last years T d F sitting and spinning, too.

So, that would be my advice to those having trouble with hills: lose weight first and foremost, then learn to sit and twiddle for a long period, rather than standing up.

Mike


----------



## Rob3rt (20 Feb 2014)

gavroche said:


> I am sure that Cavendish knows all about pain, and probably more than you and yet, he is useless in the mountains, therefore my theory is not so bad. As for me , I can enjoy my cycling without the hills and pain is not high on my list of priorities.



Given that no-one on cyclechat is likely to be anywhere near to their physiological limits as a pro rider like Mark Cavendish is, your whole "Well Cav is crap in the mountains" justification for your cobblers is a load of old balls.

However humouring you for a moment:

1) He is a lot better in the hills as it stands than he would be had he followed your proposed philosophy and avoided them and any sort of suffering like the plague
2) His climbing ability has not been maximised. He would be able to improve his ability in the mountains beyond his current ability if he chose to focus on this and lost some weight. However, given that he excels as a sprinter and will never be the best climber, he quite rightly focusses his efforts on this, a discipline which tends to run contrary to sprinting, if he was to concentrate on improving his climbing his sprint would most likely suffer!

In short, even those not particularly suited to hill climbing can improve their ability to climb considerably and.you are talking rubbish!


----------



## Sharky (20 Feb 2014)

Short hills, try Honking and attack the hills.
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34006&start=30

Longer hills just keep a good cadence and pace yourself


----------



## PK99 (20 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> Ed you just have to be a bit innovative to make things harder. Either try and spin a harder gear (not grind) or what I am starting to do, if the hill is not tough enough in itself, is to sprint sections of it. So pick a spot half way up the climb, a lamppost maybe, and gun it for the next two lampposts. After that settle into normal rythym for rest of hill.



My variation, was to "go for it" from the bottom, then when i ran out of steam, drop down a gear of two and spin up to the top.
Over just a few sessions, the point at which i ran out of steam moved significantly further up the hill. Little direct measures like that are great for motivation.


----------



## PK99 (20 Feb 2014)

gavroche said:


> I am sure that Cavendish knows all about pain, and probably more than you and yet, *he is useless in the mountains,* therefore my theory is not so bad. As for me , I can enjoy my cycling without the hills and pain is not high on my list of priorities.



"useless in the mountains" - anyone here who fancies themselves as a hill climber care to take him on on a mountain climb?


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

PK99 said:


> My variation, was to "go for it" from the bottom, then when i ran out of steam, drop down a gear of two and spin up to the top.
> Over just a few sessions, the point at which i ran out of steam moved significantly further up the hill. Little direct measures like that are great for motivation.



Exactly. When I did some hill repeats last Sunday I mixed up my efforts, sometimes I hit the lower steeper sections hard, sometimes the top third or just went for an overall effort. I kinda like the types of hills that allow you to experiment a bit on with different methods. At some point I will move on to trying to attack all the way up some longer hills but early days for me, so not there yet!


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

PK99 said:


> "useless in the mountains" - anyone here who fancies themselves as a hill climber care to take him on on a mountain climb?



Lol I was going to post this too. I am sure that "useless" as he is Cav would still show a clean pair of heels to almost any club rider in hill climbing.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> Sounds like you are already pretty good at the hills then young Ed!
> 
> Always room to improve though so just keep working hard. Just wish that I had your youth on my side in my cycling progress....


not tooo bad but could be better!
on hills with out too much a gradient so not very steep hills i can do 15-18mph and on anything reasonable about 8-12mph and anything real steep 6-8mph length=no problem
Cheers Ed


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> not tooo bad but could be better!
> on hills with out too much a gradient so not very steep hills i can do 15-18mph and on anything reasonable about 8-12mph and anything real steep 6-8mph length=no problem
> Cheers Ed


15-18 mph on "not very steep hills"?
Very impressive Ed; your overall average for a ride must be 25mph or so?


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> 15-18 mph on "not very steep hills"?
> Very impressive Ed; your overall average for a ride must be 25mph or so?



Depends if he is classing any gradient above 1% as a hill I guess. If that is the case I can go over 20mph up some hills!


----------



## 400bhp (20 Feb 2014)

Gavroche spouting bollox again - there's a suprise.


----------



## nappadang (20 Feb 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I live in Wales and avoid them at all costs because I am rubbish. I can't do them, because I'm just not fit enough yet. Someone else will be able to help you though and will be along soon I'm sure.


Too much fried bread!


----------



## 400bhp (20 Feb 2014)

Hill climbing - mind over matter.

That's about it.

Oh and man up.


----------



## welsh dragon (20 Feb 2014)

nappadang said:


> Too much fried bread!



 meoooowwwwwww


----------



## PK99 (20 Feb 2014)

MikeG said:


> I
> 
> Is it a macho thing? Why is it that everyone seems to try to go up in too high a gear, and stands up on the pedals rather than changing down a gear or two? I never, ever, stand up, and spin 50% faster than most of the people I ride with......and the only trouble I have on hills is with all the others in front of me getting in the way. I am absolutely convinced that people try to get up hills using strength, when they should actually get up using endurance. I noticed a lot more riders on last years T d F sitting and spinning, too.



A friend went on a Sky training camp with Geriant Thomas and was given very strong guidance that standing is counter productive - peak power is higher, endurance power is lower. By all means stand to punch over small rises or relieve boredom or sit bones but on a long climb sit and spin was the clear message.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> 15-18 mph on "not very steep hills"?
> Very impressive Ed; your overall average for a ride must be 25mph or so?


no about 15-18mph i tend to hold at but thats sitting in saddle and then i just give it my all on the climbs so yes if i were to be giving it my all and out of the saddle bum in the air a little dropped on bars sprintng the whole ride and dying the whole ride! i would be about 22 or so


50000tears said:


> Depends if he is classing any gradient above 1% as a hill I guess. If that is the case I can go over 20mph up some hills!


3-5% is a 'shallow' hill


400bhp said:


> Gavroche spouting bollox again - there's a suprise.


no

would like to be able to sprint up light hills at 20ish
Cheers ed


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Hill climbing - mind over matter.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> Oh and man up.



I like it that so many are not willing to put themselves through what it takes to get good, because I am, and once it pays off I will be the one at the top of the hill first, both figuratively and physically!


----------



## screenman (20 Feb 2014)

I can go up all the hills in Boston at over 28mph.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

screenman said:


> I can go up all the hills in Boston at over 28mph.


what cars that you got?! 

they aren't very steep are they?!
Cheers Ed


----------



## nickyboy (20 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Hill climbing - mind over matter.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> Oh and man up.



This ^^^

Around these parts it's nothing but hills so you have no choice; either learn to deal mentally with hills or give up cycling. I'm 13.5 stone and will never be a 10 stone skinny guy but I am a mid-level climber. There are two reasons; taking the pain and suffering of getting the fitness up by riding hilly routes time after time...and....developing mental toughness to keep the watts up when it really hurts


----------



## screenman (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> what cars that you got?!
> 
> they aren't very steep are they?!
> Cheers Ed


Well I have a couple of cars but seeing this is about cycling that is what I was talking about.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

screenman said:


> Well I have a couple of cars but seeing this is about cycling that is what I was talking about.


let me guess the boston hills aren't very steep?
Cheers Ed


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> no about 15-18mph i tend to hold at but thats sitting in saddle and then i just give it my all on the climbs so yes if i were to be giving it my all and out of the saddle bum in the air a little dropped on bars sprintng the whole ride and dying the whole ride! i would be about 22 or so
> 
> 3-5% is a 'shallow' hill
> 
> ...



Sorry ED I seem to have you mixed up with someone else who averages 12mph for a ride. Clearly that can't be you as that person wouldn't be blasting up any sort of incline at 15-18 mph never mind real steep ones at 6-8 mph - length no problem to use your words.


----------



## Cuchilo (20 Feb 2014)

I never ever thought I would say it but I quite enjoy hills now . Six months ago I hated them !
Ive tried all methods in getting up them from stamping on the pedals to spinning out and for me the best way is to drop down to a nice pace and then click up a few gears . This gives me a few gears to click back down too that nice pace again when it starts getting tough . It may not be long before I move back down the gears but the option is there if I need it . When getting to the top I have found I still have enough energy to give it some and ramp back up through the gears so I am at a good speed while I recover .
I may change what I am doing with this method but its working for now and im enjoying the challenge that hills bring aswell as learning from my mistakes .
The best way to do hills though is just keep doing them .


----------



## screenman (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> let me guess the boston hills aren't very steep?
> Cheers Ed


Steep enough to give you nose bleeds.


----------



## nickyboy (20 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Very long hills (18+ minutes): improve threshold, reduce weight
> Long hills (10+ minute): improve threshold + power at VO2 max, reduce weight
> Short hills (3-8 minute): improve power at VO2 max, reduce weight
> Very short hills (<1.5 mins): improve anaerobic power, upper body and core strength, reduce weight



I climb lots of different types of hills. As a muscular build 13.5 stones on the v short hills I can get in the top 10% on strava presumably down to decent anaerobic power and upper body strength. But as the climbs get longer and longer my performance compared to others reduces. Long hills (like Cat and Fiddle, Snake, Long Hill etc) my relative performance is much weaker, down about half way on the leaderboards.
I could starve myself to lose a stone or so which would no doubt help but what training regime would you suggest regarding threshold improvement? 95% of my cycling is just ordinary, hard hilly cycling without specific targets


----------



## gavroche (20 Feb 2014)

50000tears said:


> Lol I was going to post this too. I am sure that "useless" as he is Cav would still show a clean pair of heels to almost any club rider in hill climbing.


And he certainly would not with his professional peer climbers which is the context it is meant to be. Be real man!


----------



## totallyfixed (20 Feb 2014)

shortone said:


> Don't be fooled peeps, Slimzoe is better than she makes out. OH here, at work as usual.
> Yes an improvement in the hills would be an advantage but all other aspects of her riding are spot on and coming along nicely.
> She can quite happily cruse at 18+ on the flat without over stretching herself.
> Technique with gear selection and controlling cadence are one of the areas we are working on.
> ...


Sounds good, you are both very welcome to come over to Rutland [just brilliant cycling country] and ride with us anytime, you are about 40 mins away.


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Sorry ED I seem to have you mixed up with someone else who averages 12mph for a ride. Clearly that can't be you as that person wouldn't be blasting up any sort of incline at 15-18 mph never mind real steep ones at 6-8 mph - length no problem to use your words.


sorry tactics change from post to post here!
a few days ago i was taking it slow and steady and then i tried spinning up to a decent speed and keeping it and really liked it so that is what i am doing
at least for the next few rides! it gives a good workout i find better than slow and steady 
Cheers Ed


----------



## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

oh and stamina has never been an issue anywhere in life that is the one part i win on 
Cheers Ed


----------



## gavroche (20 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Given that no-one on cyclechat is likely to be anywhere near to their physiological limits as a pro rider like Mark Cavendish is, your whole "Well Cav is crap in the mountains" justification for your cobblers is a load of old balls.
> 
> However humouring you for a moment:
> 
> ...


Sometimes, I like "talking rubbish" as it triggers expert like you to react on something which is trivial to the rest of us who have no ambition to be good climbers, but just mere cyclists who enjoy a good ride without worrying about hills. No offence to the OP .


----------



## Doyleyburger (20 Feb 2014)

I also enjoy hills now. Hated them when I started riding.
Living here in Wales can really test you sometimes on the hills. 
Yes, keep attempting them and slowly you will get better. I'm no expert by any means, in fact I am very much still a beginner but I found that I used to be very tense when going up hills which seemed to drain a lot of energy. These days I am much more relaxed, I don't grip the bars to hard any more which I used to do. Perhaps break the climbs into sections and mentally complete them a step at a time. .......works for me anyway.
Good luck


----------



## 400bhp (20 Feb 2014)

gavroche said:


> Sometimes, I like "talking rubbish"



Sometimes..............


----------



## Slimzoe (20 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Hill climbing - mind over matter.
> 
> That's about it.
> 
> Oh and man up.


I love this reply lol succinct and to the point!


----------



## Cuchilo (20 Feb 2014)

young Ed said:


> oh and stamina has never been an issue anywhere in life that is the one part i win on
> Cheers Ed


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

gavroche said:


> And he certainly would not with his professional peer climbers which is the context it is meant to be. Be real man!



My reply was just fine, you were using Cav as an example that not everyone is a good climber. The fact that he could trounce 99%+ of all riders in the world up a climb makes your statement incorrect. I agree that at the level he rides at he is against the <1% that he cannot better, or often even look competent against, but to suggest he is not a good climber as a result is simply not accurate.


----------



## JoeyB (20 Feb 2014)

gavroche said:


> Sometimes, I like "talking rubbish" as it triggers expert like you to react on something which is trivial to the rest of us who have no ambition to be good climbers, but just mere cyclists who enjoy a good ride without worrying about hills. No offence to the OP .



Well I am quite literally an average Joe (certainly not an expert) and I find your attitude a bit defeatist and not very ambitious. If the OP was looking for comfort in the fact that she was fed up by hills and going to avoid them at all costs then maybe your comments may have had their place…but in this instance the OP is asking for positive advice on how to up her game and get over them, so with that in mind I don't think your input was very relevant or helpful.

I don't particularly enjoy the thought of cycling up hills, but I'm still going to plan some hilly circuits and attack them head on….You can't beat that feeling when you get to the top, absolutely knackered, and then get to freewheel down the other side whilst you sort yourself out, almost falling off whilst you regain your senses lol


----------



## 50000tears (20 Feb 2014)

You also can't beat that feeling of having a hill that you used to dread getting to that you can now attack with relish, as it is now only about how fast you want to go up it, rather than the suffering you used to do.


----------



## jay clock (21 Feb 2014)

As a hefty bloke, I will agree that weight matters. The main other thing to cope with is the mental approach.Be proud of yourself for having got fit and done a load of long rides I have done two Ironmans, and for the last 3-4 years have done several long rides each year (100 miles+), mainly in training for the Ironmans or Half IMs, and I STILL convince myself I am crap at hills. I am in fact ok, and I although slower than the small group of friends I ride with. "As I put it on my weekly ride email I aim for an overall 23kmh in training, and in races I manage 28kmh so I must be doing something right."


----------



## Slimzoe (21 Feb 2014)

Thanks a lot for all the advice, I don't want to be a mountain goat I just don't want that sinking feeling every time a hill comes up lol. I think we may well take you up on the offer totally fixed would be nice to ride somewhere new.


----------



## Libby (21 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> libby who do you ride with? i go out on a sunday but its not a club as such, we ride for fun and its helped me come on in confidence no end but always on the look out for other rides lol. i was going to ride with the warwickshire ladies but as we only have 1 car a lot of the time i cant get to the starts. the atherstone one is my nemesis, i fell off going up it and, i think mentally thats why i struggle so much, straight away im thinking aww pants another hill! my blokey is fab, when we go out together he acts as my coach as he is a strong rider (been doing for less time than me but hes a natural rider) but i want to be able to ride up hills with him not 10 miles behind lol.


 
Hi Zoe,
I ride with Coventry Road Club, we meet at the Styvechale Arms every Sunday at 9. From the post your other half has put on it sounds to me as though you are much better than you think! I'd bet you are better at hills than you think too but know exactly what you mean about it being a mental thing. As I said I'm really not good at hills either but if you ever wanted to meet up on a Saturday (until race season at least) and do some hill repeats together I'd be happy to do that as I really need to work on them too! Drop me a message if you are interested.


----------



## Shut Up Legs (21 Feb 2014)

_Mmm_... Wales, you lucky, lucky bastards . One of my favourite work lunchtime activities (that is, when I have lunch breaks) is to browse through Google Maps in terrain or street view, ogling all those lovely Welsh hills, and wishing I wasn't so damned far away, so I could cycle up them . The way I see it, the descent only serves one useful purpose: it gets you to the bottom so you can ride up the hill again! (_OK, I'll shut up, now_)

By the way, one way to improve your hill climbing is to try to keep up with a better hill climber. It will hurt, of course, but persist and you _will_ get better at it .


----------



## gam001 (21 Feb 2014)

Some “advice” I was once given by a hill-climbing wizzard for climbing hills as fast as possible was:
“Start as fast as you can, go faster at the finish, and in the middle just go flat out”.
Luckily, I have a sarcasm detector


----------



## Dangermouse (21 Feb 2014)

I was going to stay out of anything to do with hill climbing, but...........I am not the fastest rider in the pack, pretty slow to be honest but when it comes to climbing I don't like it, but seem to get up better and faster than anyone I am riding with, my normal strategy when attacking a hill is to keep the cadence quite high when a hill is coming up and before I hit the hill make sure I am in the gear I want to be in at the top, on our local 24 degree hill I wind down to the lower front and go all the way up to the three from the top at the rear, that normally gets me up any big hill, lungs burn but it gets me up, don't forget to keep the legs turning once you are over the crest, don't stop pedalling otherwise other fatigue problems can start once you are over the hill........works for me


----------



## welsh dragon (21 Feb 2014)

I am useless at hills, but hopefully this year I can get fitter and will be able to at least tackle some....


----------



## kedab (21 Feb 2014)

Dangermouse said:


> I wind down to the lower front and go all the way up to the three from the top at the reare



3rd gear then?


----------



## Dangermouse (21 Feb 2014)

kedab said:


> 3rd gear then?



That's the one, but as daft as it sounds some people wouldn't know what third is, so made it easier to understand without sounding patronising


----------



## kedab (21 Feb 2014)

not sure it was easier but i liked it anyway  - could also depend on how you count your gears. I could say my bike has 22 gears but i only use 11 of them.


----------



## midliferider (21 Feb 2014)

Before I offer my suggestion, I would like to know
What is your bike?
What is your gear set up? Triple or compact?
Rear cassette?


----------



## sunsport coach (22 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> Not sure if this is the right place, im not a beginner, been riding nearly 2 years, taking it seriously for a year, i love it and ive done a few charity rides (nightrider in london and 211 miles from wales to stonehenge) but,i am utterly rubbish on hills (Wales almost killed me!). i defeat myself before i start, convinced i cant do it, i plod at the slowest speed ever and i really want to improve (when i am out with the group and my OH i feel im holding them back) so how do i improve, is it just a case of keep plodding and it will come, or is there specific training i can do? i ride a trek lexa slx wsd.



Hi Slimzoe

Great idea to ask the question on a forum like this! you'll get some great advice. I didn't actually read all the threads so apologies if i repeat anything but I wanted to give you some advice.

I could talk all day about how to improve your performance but i think it is more appropriate to summarise on here:

So my advice to improve your performance (based on some assumpations) would be:

1. Understand your current body composition and how this affects performance. Most likely look to improve this ie reduce body fat % and reduce overall body weight.
2. Ensure your aerobic endurance is good as this is the foundation of your fitness.
3. Understand the importance of good nutrition ie what you eat before , during and after the event as this will have a huge impact on performance.
4. Assess current core strength and flexibility with some simple strength testing.
5. Once you have started to address the above fitness issues then you can do some specific sessions to increase your power output when climbing. The higher this is for a given weight, the faster you go uphill. The length/duration of the climb will actually determine the training sessions required.

Have you ever considered a peformance fitness test? Fitness enthusiasts and athletes regularly look towards their bikes/equipment or nutrition in an attempt to take their performance to the next level but some physiological testing is a great way to benchmark your fitness and plan how to improve!

Have fun!


----------



## Slimzoe (22 Feb 2014)

midliferider said:


> Before I offer my suggestion, I would like to know
> What is your bike?
> What is your gear set up? Triple or compact?
> Rear cassette?



Bike is a trek Lexa slx wsd it's a compact with a 12-28 rear cassette.


----------



## midliferider (22 Feb 2014)

My suggestions/ advice depends my attitude and beliefs. Those are
1. I am a leisure cyclist, meaning I cycle for pleasure. I will never ever dream of doing racing etc. So I do not keep an eye on my speed, cadence, heart rate etc. I just cycle and when I feel tired I stop.
2. Cycling helps me to eat what I want and not other way around. I don't eat to support cycling. But I have a balanced diet. I am totally against all forms of diets and nutrition plans. They are not for me.
3. I believe that mind is as important as body with regard to all activities.
4. I am a self proclaimed geek. So I have read various articles on the subject to understand the science.

Based on the above, my view is that climbing hill is an art based on science.
The science is mathematics, physics and physiology.
Physics/ maths will tell you that lower the gear ratio, easier it is to climb. So I have chosen my bike to give me a gear ratio of one. My bike has a triple, 50-39-30 and rear cassette of 12-30. If you continue to struggle, you may consider changing your gear set up.
Then there is the art of when and how to change gears. As a basic rule, you must change gears before you run out of energy.
The technique of pedalling is important to get the maximum benefit of pedalling. 
Physiology will tell you that your heart needs to pump faster, lungs need more oxygen. Therefore you can adopt a posture to open up your lungs and deep breaths rather than short and rapid ineffective breathing.
With regard to the mind, you need to approach hills with a positive mind.

I suggest that you look at following youtube clips to understand what you say.
Finally, it never gets easy, you just go faster, I can't remember who said that.


----------



## midliferider (22 Feb 2014)

You tube clips


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFNKhNhhJQ



View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zam74qlzGtQ


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Feb 2014)

Practice, practice & practice some more.
Shift as much weight as you can (easier said than done for most of us)
Spin don't grind, so get the right gearing.
If a long climb then ride to a tempo that you can sustain. Best if you can judge this by power or HR, if not go to the point you just start to lose the ability to hold a conversation and hold the effort there. Relax your arms and shoulders and breathe with rhythm deeply.
Shorter climbs you can muscle it up and a bigger effort but keep going over the top, don't relax once at the summit, you can recover on the way down. Thee climbs are usually standing affairs. 
Make sure you are not overdressed. You body needs to keep cool in order to work efficiently, too much and you will overheat and suffer.
If doing a long route with many climbs make sure you eat and drink regularly. Dehydration can cause a serious loss of power and speed the appearance of cramps.


----------



## jdtate101 (22 Feb 2014)

midliferider said:


> Finally, it never gets easy, you just go faster, I can't remember who said that.



Greg LeMond.


----------



## Doc333 (23 Feb 2014)

Late 50's new cyclist recovering from a heart attack last April, and being new to cycling find hills a pain. Just before Xmas I attempted to get up 'Alsagers Bank' which is the high point in Cheshire. I crashed and burned half way up and turned back. Yesterday I tried it again and although stopped for a blow twice, managed it. I was and still am elated at that achievement, and I even managed to catch a mountain biker who was chugging along in the granny ring. It felt good catching him and going past him. It hurt like hell but I feel more confident now and cycling a few miles each week is making me fitter and faster. So I guess the only way to climb well is to just keep going, stop when it hurts and even get off and push if it becomes too much. Don't kill yourself trying to be a Pantani, and you will get stronger, fitter and more confident at each climb.


----------



## Effyb4 (23 Feb 2014)

@Doc333 I'm a 40 year old who had a heart attack and bypass surgery in September. I am back on the bike and gradually increasing the miles, but at the moment even the smallest incline is very hard work. I'm a bit scared to push too hard, but you have reassured me that it is going to get better.


----------



## Cherry Stewart (23 Feb 2014)

• Do more of them
• Power to weight ratio is important (I'm a light lady and wiz past some very powerful guys up hill)
• Get advice on your gearing (for example when in the mountains I change my rear cassette to a climbing configuration I think its a 11-32 tooth that means I keep spinning up hill on long climbs (this gearing works the same as a triple on the front). I currently have a compact on the front of my bike and change the rear cassette as and when (and the chain). 
• Its better to keep spinning on a lighter gear up hill than labouring on a bigger gear (ring). One suggestion is to find a hill nearish to home after a warm up ride to it put yourself into a stiffer gear up the chosen hill and see how you handle it. Give yourself so many reps to do and keep giving yourself a slightly stiffer gear each time - this will help to build your power.
Good luck!


----------



## Slimzoe (23 Feb 2014)

So today I found my training hill, it's a long slow drag and it was hard work but I did it, slow and steady and no panicking. I did fall off but that's because my chain slipped lol. So it's my new hill to train on (ridge lane for anybody local to me) the wind today was a killer though! Thanks so much for all the advice and offers of help I have taken it on board and will be visiting Rutland and Bedworth lol.


----------



## berty bassett (23 Feb 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but riding for 2 years is still a beginner, lots to learn still. You are not far away from us here in Rutland, so if you want to come over for some practical tips we would be happy to help. We have a little experience in climbing hills.


 a little experience at hills ! there aint no flat bits in Rutland !! done the oundle gorilla ride last year and i think we sampled most of them


----------



## Doc333 (23 Feb 2014)

Effyb4 said:


> @Doc333 I'm a 40 year old who had a heart attack and bypass surgery in September. I am back on the bike and gradually increasing the miles, but at the moment even the smallest incline is very hard work. I'm a bit scared to push too hard, but you have reassured me that it is going to get better.



Effy you've only just had major surgery mate (5-months) so you can't push it mate. I had my heart attack back in April last year and it took me ages to even walk for more than 10-minutes at a time. It took me 6-weeks before I was allowed to start swinging a golf club and a full 2-months before I was allowed to play 9-holes. I got a bike in November once i was fully signed off by the consultant, and that was 8-months, so don't do anything crazy mate.

I've only just started achieving 20-mile rides and thats 4-months into cycling but I started after a full cardiac rehab program and being given the all clear. You my friend have a while to go before you get full sign-off from the hospital so don't rush it. In your position I would get off and push as soon as you feel your heart over working. I asked about heart rate monitors and was advised that I would spend more time worrying about that than concentrating. If you dont feel good you stop and thats it. If your doctor tells you cycling is good to get your fitness back, he didn't mean for you to do the TDF climbs. Over do things now will send you backwards, and easy does it with weekly improvements means you reach your peak when your body says so


----------



## Cycling Naturalist (23 Feb 2014)

It's relatively easy for me because I live in Llangollen, but the basic rule is to find something short and steep to practise on. If the torque is such that the front wheel lifts. then you know it's steep. Then, with the bigger ones, take your time, and take a slalom line up the hill to flatten it. Be prepared for failure - the bend round the church on Church Hill, Glyn Ceirog is nearly 1 in 3 and if there is a vehicle coming down the hill (you'll smell the brakes before you hear it) you have to get off and push. If you can walk up it, then you can cycle up it. However, the biggest problem is balancing the bike on very steep stuff and having the rear wheel skid out when your nose is nearly on the front wheel.


----------



## midliferider (23 Feb 2014)

What would you generally consider as a hill?
I have just starting plotting my routes on maps and it gives the gradient. I was quite surprised to learn that what I considered as difficult hills are just 7%


----------



## SatNavSaysStraightOn (24 Feb 2014)

midliferider said:


> *What would you generally consider as a hill*?
> I have just starting plotting my routes on maps and it gives the gradient. I was quite surprised to learn that what I considered as difficult hills are just 7%


Anything with an uphill gradient that you notice and feels slows you down...
Or from a mountaineering point of view, anything _under_ 600metres (1968 feet).


----------



## asterix (24 Feb 2014)

You gotta love hills!

They are like dogs, they know when you are afraid of 'em and then they rear up in front, all dark and ugly. When you are at the bottom you have to think, 'Oh wow, that looks an interesting hill, I just got to find out what's at the top of it, and won't it be a fantastic view'. Or something like that..

I've climbed Winnatts Pass a few times and always approached it after a large pasta lunch. A large pasta lunch is not what you want to have had immediately before Winnatts and I really have to psych myself up for that one.


----------



## nuttall1991 (24 Feb 2014)

When I round a corner to be presented with a particularly daunting hill I try to pick my speed up to attack the first part of the hill and let the my momentum do some of the work. Then I sometimes drop down two gears to trick myself into thinking/feeling that the hill isn't that hard and often go back up a gear towards the end of the hill. If it is like trying to cycle up a cliff then I stop looking at the hill and just focus on the front wheel, obviously don't do that on a busy road with side streets etc. I try to focus on my tempo/cadence and breathing and look up every now and then to see how far I've come, not how far I've got left...


----------



## ColinJ (24 Feb 2014)

asterix said:


> I've climbed Winnatts Pass a few times and always approached it after a large pasta lunch. A large pasta lunch is not what you want to have had immediately before Winnatts and I really have to psych myself up for that one.


I walked up it on a peak district holiday about 20 years ago. I was pretty impressed by it, and kept thinking how hard it would be to tackle on a bike. I will have to incorporate it into a hilly century ride one day!


----------



## Hip Priest (24 Feb 2014)

I've always considered myself to be 'rubbish at climbing' but this year I've extended my commute home to include a short 12% hill and I'm now much, much better. As Rob said earlier, it doesn't take ages to improve. I've come on leaps & bounds in 6-7 weeks.

I surprised my riding buddy at the weekend by keeping pace with him on climbs. Last year he'd have to wait for me at the top.


----------



## 400bhp (24 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> I walked up it on a peak district holiday about 20 years ago. I was pretty impressed by it, and kept thinking how hard it would be to tackle on a bike. *I will have to incorporate it into a hilly century ride one day!*



Don't, just don't. Orrible


----------



## Cycling Naturalist (24 Feb 2014)

midliferider said:


> What would you generally consider as a hill?
> I have just starting plotting my routes on maps and it gives the gradient. I was quite surprised to learn that what I considered as difficult hills are just 7%



It's the combination of steepness and length that makes hills difficult.


----------



## 50000tears (24 Feb 2014)

Hip Priest said:


> I've always considered myself to be 'rubbish at climbing' but this year I've extended my commute home to include a short 12% hill and I'm now much, much better. As Rob said earlier, it doesn't take ages to improve. I've come on leaps & bounds in 6-7 weeks.
> 
> I surprised my riding buddy at the weekend by keeping pace with him on climbs. Last year he'd have to wait for me at the top.



This is very encouraging that such good progress can be made in so short a time.


----------



## sheffgirl (24 Feb 2014)

I'm still not very good at hills, my route to work is fairly flat now but there are some long inclines both directions that always defeat me  my goal is to be able to ride them without stopping at all. I drop down gears a bit but I never come off the biggest ring, which I guess is an improvement from last year.


----------



## 50000tears (24 Feb 2014)

One thing that can be tried if you don't do so already is to really concentrate on pedaling circles. Until recently I would have a "spiked" effort up the hills where a lot of force was put through the down-strike with each leg rather than pedaling the full circle. Since changing to a better pedal stroke, and I do have to consciously think about it, my hill climbing has felt a lot easier. Not saying it will make a big difference overnight, as there is still no substitution for overall fitness, but something to think about maybe.


----------



## totallyfixed (24 Feb 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I never come off the biggest ring


Same here .


----------



## uclown2002 (24 Feb 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I'm still not very good at hills, my route to work is fairly flat now but there are some long inclines both directions that always defeat me  my goal is to be able to ride them without stopping at all. I drop down gears a bit but I never come off the biggest ring, which I guess is an improvement from last year.


So you don't tackle the hills in the small chainring and you can't get up them?


----------



## 50000tears (24 Feb 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I'm still not very good at hills, my route to work is fairly flat now but there are some long inclines both directions that always defeat me  my goal is to be able to ride them without stopping at all. I drop down gears a bit but I never come off the biggest ring, which I guess is an improvement from last year.



Wow I missed this post too. If you have hills that always beat you then why oh why would you not use your easiest gears?


----------



## ColinJ (25 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Don't, just don't. Orrible


If the gradient doesn't get you, the traffic will!

I think if I ever did it, it would be on a mid-summer, mid-week day, setting off really early to beat the traffic.


----------



## double_dd (25 Feb 2014)

I think it's a case of practise on a variety of hills. On my usual route there is a relatively short 19% hill and some drawn out 4% hills over a couple of miles. They require different gears, and on the first hill I'm out of the seat but on the rest I'm pretty much sat down unless I need a bit of a boost to finally get over it. 

I have hardly any flat ground where I live so it's pretty much up and down until I'm back home!


----------



## HeroesFitness (25 Feb 2014)

Slimzoe said:


> Not sure if this is the right place, im not a beginner, been riding nearly 2 years, taking it seriously for a year, i love it and ive done a few charity rides (nightrider in london and 211 miles from wales to stonehenge) but,i am utterly rubbish on hills (Wales almost killed me!). i defeat myself before i start, convinced i cant do it, i plod at the slowest speed ever and i really want to improve (when i am out with the group and my OH i feel im holding them back) so how do i improve, is it just a case of keep plodding and it will come, or is there specific training i can do? i ride a trek lexa slx wsd.


 Hi, I found this program to be the best one for me, take a look, I have copied it for you to read.

This climbing regimen, from Carmichael Training Systems coach Andy Applegate, will put so much power into your pedals, your buddies will swear they see wings as you leave them in your wake. Start today and you'll see results by the end of the month.



*Meditate Uphill*

Strap on your heart rate monitor and sit on your sofa. Check your heart rate. Now clench your fists and grit your teeth. Bet your heart rate jumps a few beats. When you're climbing a long hill, you want to direct all your energy to your legs, not your face. To stay relaxed, Applegate swears by "Qigong climbing"--a kind of moving meditation. As you approach the climb, think light thoughts--clouds, birds, angels. While climbing, progressively relax your body from the top down, starting with your eyes, then your mouth, jaw, shoulders, chest, back, arms and hands. "You want your upper body so still that if someone were to watch you from the waist up, they wouldn't be able to tell if you were climbing or casually riding along," says Applegate. Also, stay light on the pedals and keep your legs moving rhythmically. The goal is to erase every ounce of unnecessary tension. "You'll feel better, ride smoother and have more energy to keep riding strong after you've crested the climb," says Applegate.



*Find Your Power Position*

To pull maximum air into your lungs, keep your back straight and your chest open. Position your hands on the brake hoods and relax your arms so your elbows sit wider than your hips. If you're short, slide back on the saddle to generate more force through the top of the pedal stroke and to encourage your heel to drop through the bottom of the stroke. If you're tall, slide forward, positioning your hips so they come close to lining up with the bottom bracket to generate maximum muscle force.



When you have to stand, click into the next larger gear and stand when one foot reaches the top of the pedal stroke (2 o'clock) to minimize momentum loss. "Avoid leaning forward as you stand, which tosses the bike backward in reaction," advises Applegate. "Stand with your butt over the saddle and keep your weight centered over the bottom bracket." You should feel like you're running on the pedals, allowing the bike to rock gently, but not excessively, from side to side.



*Raise Your LT*

"The cornerstone of climbing fitness is being able to generate high speed and power at lactate threshold," says Applegate. To improve yours, slip in LT (or steady state) intervals at least once, and no more than twice, a week. After a good warm-up, ride 10 minutes at a steady effort, keeping your heart rate about three beats below your LT heart rate (just below your average heart rate for a 30-60-minute time trial, or an effort of seven to eight on a scale of one to 10). Recover for 10 minutes. Then repeat two more times. Work up to two 20-minute intervals with 20 minutes recovery, then just one 30-minute interval.



*Practice To Perfection*

You'll get better just by choosing a hilly route at least once or twice a week. Add these drills (one per climbing-designated day) and you'll improve even faster. Uphill Sprint 20s Find a hill that takes 10 to 15 minutes to climb. Start climbing at your lactate threshold. After two minutes, stand up and attack at just below all-out sprint intensity (nine-plus on a one-to-10 scale) for 20 pedal strokes. Sit and go right back to climbing at your LT. Repeat every one to two minutes (depending on your fitness) all the way up the hill. Perform the drill one to two times. Rock the Rollers To keep going strong through rolling terrain, practice two-minute attacks. Find a short climb or series of climbs that takes about two minutes to crest. Wind up before you hit the climb so you're at LT as soon as the hill starts. Climb at LT for 90 seconds; then go as fast as you can for the final 30 seconds all the way to the top. Repeat four to six times.


*Peak Force Intervals*

Climbing in big gears strengthens your legs to put more power in every pedal stroke. By improving your peak pedal force, you help your legs stave off fatigue during long climbs, when you're typically using a smaller gear. To build your pedal force, find a long, gradual hill and start climbing as you normally would. After a minute or two, click into a harder gear and slow your cadence to about 50 to 60 rpm. Maintain a smooth pedal stroke and a low heart rate. Climb this way for one to two minutes. Then shift back into an easier gear and recover for five to 10 minutes. Repeat to the top of the climb.


----------



## e-rider (25 Feb 2014)

to climb faster, simply lose weight - it will potentially make more difference than a whole load of tough training (assuming 1. you are very overweight, and 2. you are already quite fit)


----------



## ColinJ (25 Feb 2014)

e-rider said:


> to climb faster, simply lose weight - it will potentially make more difference than a whole load of tough training (assuming 1. you are very overweight, and 2. you are already quite fit)


It's working for me!

It almost feels like cheating. I am finding hills easier now when unfit, than I did when I was fittish but overweight.


----------



## sazzaa (25 Feb 2014)

NealM said:


> Well said . . I'm currently trying to improve my hill climbing ability . . I've found a short course near where I work that allows me to get out in my lunch hour . . and there are a couple of 10% hills along the route (I know this probably isn't very steep for some people here !! ) . . For the first couple of weeks I had to walk the last part of the hills (and heart rate was at 190 BPM). . But now I can at least ride all the way up . . . So improvement is always possible ..



Same here, I have hills inbetween my home and work, and it only took a couple of weeks until I could do them without stopping, it's amazing how quickly you can get used to a route.


----------



## alans (28 Feb 2014)

In support of several truths contained in the content of the foregoing replies can I add....

Weight: Definitely a consideration.I was quicker up hills when I smoked 20+ coffin nails a day.
I was then 20kg lighter.

Physcology: I have in the past found it too easy to fail at the foot of a climb 'cause the devil on one
shoulder was shouting louder in my ear than the angel on the other shoulder was speaking positive things into the other ear.Positive thinking & self belief are your friend.

Practice: Riding up hills makes you better at riding up hills.Hereabouts there are 6 climbs of varying & increasingly challenging elevation.At one time I couldn't ride all the way up the easiest of them.I can now conquer all of them on a good day(not the same day).It's taken a hell of a long time & it's not at all easy:the 2 most challenging still require a shovel to force heart & lungs back into chest cavity at the summit.


----------



## Slimzoe (14 Mar 2014)

Thanks for all the advice, I've made a conscious effort to not panic and find hills lol. I'm getting there and have a nice, lumpy ride planned this weekend.


----------



## sheffgirl (14 Mar 2014)

Well I think I've cracked the hill on the way to work now, managed it 4 out of 5 mornings this week without stopping. Still can't master the long incline on theway home though, but I guess it will come with time. I'm only 6 weeks into this new commute.
I've tried dropping onto the middle ring ( I have 8x3 gears) but it doesn't help that much. I guess it just takes practice and a lot of mental willpower


----------



## uclown2002 (14 Mar 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> Well I think I've cracked the hill on the way to work now, managed it 4 out of 5 mornings this week without stopping. Still can't master the long incline on theway home though, but I guess it will come with time. I'm only 6 weeks into this new commute.
> I've tried dropping onto the middle ring ( I have 8x3 gears) but it doesn't help that much. I guess it just takes practice and a lot of mental willpower


So what do you use your granny ring for, if not a hill you can't get up in the middle ring?


----------



## 50000tears (14 Mar 2014)

^^^^ Failing on a hill and pushing the bike when you still have gears available is just plain silly.


----------



## sheffgirl (14 Mar 2014)

I don't get off and push, I just stop for a rest. I still ride all the way up there, just not in one go. I never feel as stable using the lowest gears, I feel like I am wobbling. I think I also struggle because I don't pace myself and slow down, then i tire easily


----------



## uclown2002 (14 Mar 2014)

Or maybe you struggle because you're not in the right gear.


----------



## 50000tears (14 Mar 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I don't get off and push, I just stop for a rest. I still ride all the way up there, just not in one go. I never feel as stable using the lowest gears, I feel like I am wobbling. I think I also struggle because I don't pace myself and slow down, then i tire easily



Strange that you should feel unstable at a lower gear. It should be the same as any gear even if you are going slower. I guess it may be the slow speed whilst putting out a big effort that makes you wobble. That can be corrected by not leaving it too late to change to the right gear and making sure you are not tensing up your upper body. One of the secrets to good climbing is to keep the upper body as relaxed as possible and just let the legs do the work. Even on a 3 mile climb recently when i was reduced to 3-4mh at one point I never felt unstable.

Pacing is certainly important. You are far more likely to manage the hill by starting at a steady pace, one where you could go faster but choose not to, and then pushing harder through the final third of the climb when any prospect of having a rest are gone from your mind.


----------



## IDMark2 (18 Mar 2014)

I use the method of 'find the most scary climb you can and keep trying it, even if you keep failing to do it in one go you may fail a bit higher up than last time, that's a win.. all other climbs will not be as scary as this one and therefore erm..easier...'

I found one http://ridewithgps.com/segments/Gittisham-up . 1.8km, Av grade 7.3%, maximum of 21% in places, 138m total ascent.. I'll go back at least once every two weeks.

I mentioned this one to my younger brother, he said 'Yeah, we call that Kennys Hill' 
'Why?'
'Well you know the line at the end of every South Park episode..? It's normally at least one of our group.'


----------



## snorri (18 Mar 2014)

how do i improve my hills?

By first driving a massive earth moving machine along your proposed route..


----------



## MikeW-71 (18 Mar 2014)

HeroesFitness said:


> *Meditate Uphill*
> 
> Strap on your heart rate monitor and sit on your sofa. Check your heart rate. Now clench your fists and grit your teeth. Bet your heart rate jumps a few beats. When you're climbing a long hill, you want to direct all your energy to your legs, not your face. To stay relaxed, Applegate swears by "Qigong climbing"--a kind of moving meditation. As you approach the climb, think light thoughts--clouds, birds, angels. While climbing, progressively relax your body from the top down, starting with your eyes, then your mouth, jaw, shoulders, chest, back, arms and hands. "You want your upper body so still that if someone were to watch you from the waist up, they wouldn't be able to tell if you were climbing or casually riding along," says Applegate. Also, stay light on the pedals and keep your legs moving rhythmically. The goal is to erase every ounce of unnecessary tension. "You'll feel better, ride smoother and have more energy to keep riding strong after you've crested the climb," says Applegate.


That works. 

I also need to improve my climbing, so I plotted out a 52 mile route with plenty of climb, but that should still be achieveable. It climbed gradually to the halfway point with some short steeper gradients, then I faced the return half where I faced a long drag of a mile, then another, then a shorter but steepening one, all following on from each other.

I started out by getting into the small ring and keeping an easy flat pace before I hit any gradient, then dropping down as each gear got too much. I concentrated on keeping cadence steady, but not too fast (if that happens I start hyperventilating and I have to stop), accept it's going to take some time, RELAX, don't grip the bars, calm, calm, you will get there. Getting a bit painful now, sod that you can't stop with these cleats, keep going, RELAX, that's better. Here's the top now, that went pretty well. Now for the next one 

I'm not the fastest at going up, but I don't care particularly as long as I get there.


----------



## Rob3rt (18 Mar 2014)

IanDuke said:


> I use the method of 'find the most scary climb you can and keep trying it, even if you keep failing to do it in one go you may fail a bit higher up than last time, that's a win.. all other climbs will not be as scary as this one and therefore erm..easier...'



Stupid idea...


----------



## nickyboy (18 Mar 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Stupid idea...



Blimey, that's a bit harsh. Not everyone has your climbing ability and they see hills as a massive mental barrier as much as they do a physical one. His approach to overcome his mental barriers seem perfectly reasonable to me and who are we to judge what works for one may not work for another?


----------



## Trull (18 Mar 2014)

On my nearest hill, the Cairn O'Mount, the ramp has several stages, and I'm not afraid to use the 28x28 second lowest gear on the 16% first slope, and so long as I stay loose and keep pedalling I'm alright as I progress at 6kph. For steeper grades the technique of your pedalling is important, you need to feel steady on the bike and not wobble while you smoothly put the power down and lean forward, particularly once you get past 25% the front wheel can feel very light - but leaning forward will keep it down. The thing is to just keep twiddling away and your practise will pay off when you can progress at a non cardio threatening HR steadily. Of course when I was skinny I'd rocket up it on 42x52 on a 11x19 6sp block...


----------



## IDMark2 (18 Mar 2014)

> Stupid idea...



I am perfectly happy to be enlightened as to why facing up to a challenge until it has been overcome is an idea which lacks any intelligence. Like, for example, improving my fastest time for a given route, (I think they call this 'a Time Trial'), or getting a place or two higher on a leader board of people I don't know? Or getting up a hill that I haven't managed yet?


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

The commentator on Eurosport last night said that the pros had been using 34 x 28 gears for the final climb of the Tirreno-Adriatico stage the day before and Cancellara had said that he still felt overgeared. We have a climb nearby which is almost as bad (Church Lane/Mytholm Steeps - it climbs 125 m in 640 m, compared with 133 m in 610 m). I have a 26 x 28 on my Basso and am about to convert my Cannondale to 30 x 29.

If you can't get up a hill and end up walking or avoiding it, use lower gears until you are fit enough not to need to!


----------



## nickyboy (18 Mar 2014)

ColinJ said:


> The commentator on Eurosport last night said that the pros had been using 34 x 28 gears for the final climb of the Tirreno-Adriatico stage the day before and Cancellara had said that he still felt overgeared. We have a climb nearby which is almost as bad (Church Lane/Mytholm Steeps - it climbs 125 m in 640 m, compared with 133 m in 610 m). I have a 26 x 28 on my Basso and am about to convert my Cannondale to 30 x 29.
> 
> If you can't get up a hill and end up walking or avoiding it, use lower gears until you are fit enough not to need to!



The new bike comes fitted with a 12-25 cassette as standard, my (now) old bike has an 11-28. Whilst the new one is a few kg lighter which will help, I am somewhat nervous about the 20-25% hills we have in these parts. Maybe the fact that when I get down to the 25 tooth sprocket I have nowhere else to bail out it will motivate me to keep going, we'll see.............I am tempted to order a 12-27 however! I'll steer clear of Mytholm Steeps for now


----------



## tug benson (18 Mar 2014)

Trull said:


> On my nearest hill, the Cairn O'Mount, the ramp has several stages, and I'm not afraid to use the 28x28 second lowest gear on the 16% first slope, and so long as I stay loose and keep pedalling I'm alright as I progress at 6kph. For steeper grades the technique of your pedalling is important, you need to feel steady on the bike and not wobble while you smoothly put the power down and lean forward, particularly once you get past 25% the front wheel can feel very light - but leaning forward will keep it down. The thing is to just keep twiddling away and your practise will pay off when you can progress at a non cardio threatening HR steadily. Of course when I was skinny I'd rocket up it on 42x52 on a 11x19 6sp block...


 

You`re so lucky having the Cairn O mount near you, i done the Cairn O mount challenge last year and i really liked the climb, the ramp at the start then it gets steep again near the top..it took a good bit of power out my legs... all the roads around that area were great for cycling


----------



## uclown2002 (18 Mar 2014)

I used to struggle with the hills when I started out nearly 3 years ago. I found that riding my bike a lot helped enormously. No specific training but just lots and lots of miles.
.
I have no problems with any hills now.


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> I used to struggle with the hills when I started out nearly 3 years ago. I found that riding my bike a lot helped enormously. No specific training but just lots and lots of miles.
> .
> I have no problems with any hills now.


Have you had a go at Park Rash yet ...?












I think I used 30 x 26 on that and found it hard work!


----------



## uclown2002 (18 Mar 2014)

Is that from Kettlewell or into Kettlewell?
I think I've done it one way - into Kettlewell. That was quite a hard climb but to be fair out of Kettlewell looks far tougher.

But you've set me a challenge now, damn you 
It'll be on a 34/25 though!

Is that on Cam Gill Road? Trying to find it on google maps.


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Is that from Kettlewell or into Kettlewell?
> I think I've done it one way - into Kettlewell. That was quite a hard climb but to be fair out of Kettlewell looks far tougher.
> 
> But you've set me a challenge now, damn you
> It'll be on a 34/25 though!


That's _from_ Kettlewell heading NNE up Coverdale, which I hadn't heard of until I rode that way, but I thought it was beautiful.

If you want a real challenge, ride over Fleet Moss to Hawes for a cafe stop, then come back over Fleet Moss from the harder side, back down to Kettlewell, and _then_ tackle Park Rash!


----------



## Cuchilo (18 Mar 2014)

Looks to me like some blokes carried rocks up there to build walls . Doing it on a bike should be easy


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> Looks to me like some blokes carried rocks up there to build walls . Doing it on a bike should be easy


I just got to the top and then the strain of the climb caused awful cramps in my left foot. (I injured it years ago when I ran into a pothole in the dark and it has played up off and on ever since. It's one reason why I prefer to spin lower gears, rather than use brute force on higher gears.)


----------



## Cuchilo (18 Mar 2014)

ColinJ said:


> I just got to the top and then the strain of the climb caused awful cramps in my left foot. (I injured it years ago when I ran into a pothole in the dark and it has played up off and on ever since. It's one reason why I prefer to spin lower gears, rather than use brute force on higher gears.)


I was on a London boy wind up to the Northerners  I was expecting a come back for some funny friendly banter .


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> I was on a London boy wind up to the Northerners  I was expecting a come back for some funny friendly banter .


Yeah, I realised that ... Just multi-tasking with T-A cycling on Eurosport!


----------



## Cuchilo (18 Mar 2014)

Tits and Ass ?


----------



## ColinJ (18 Mar 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> Tits and Ass ?


Tsk ... can't take 'em anywhere - Tirreno-Adriatico!


----------



## slowmotion (19 Mar 2014)

I'm pretty bad at hills. What I learned early on is that it's really bad for morale if you have to walk them when other people are riding by. My solution was to get really low gearing on my triple. I may have looked like a ludicrous hamster on a wheel but it was a huge boost to my confidence to get up "the impossible one" the first time that I managed it. Getting rid of weight from the bike helps a lot too. Now I do my gentle hill tour at weekends and aim to get to the top of each with one higher gear than the month before. For the first time ever, I have a few gears to spare. That's a great feeling.

As everybody says, it's just down to practice.


----------



## Rob3rt (19 Mar 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Blimey, that's a bit harsh. Not everyone has your climbing ability and they see hills as a massive mental barrier as much as they do a physical one. His approach to overcome his mental barriers seem perfectly reasonable to me and who are we to judge what works for one may not work for another?



Maybe my comment was a little curt, for that I apologise however I still think it is a poor approach to improving ones climbing ability, at least from a physical perspective (which is what I am commenting on). From a mental aspect, well, for some it might work, others it will be demoralising.



IanDuke said:


> I am perfectly happy to be enlightened as to why facing up to a challenge until it has been overcome is an idea which lacks any intelligence. Like, for example, improving my fastest time for a given route, (I think they call this 'a Time Trial'), or getting a place or two higher on a leader board of people I don't know? Or getting up a hill that I haven't managed yet?



See above, I am commenting only on the physical training aspect of the approach and I maintain that it is a lacklustre approach but apologise for the "rude" tone in which I asserted this.


----------



## IDMark2 (19 Mar 2014)

@Rob3rt Thank you for the apology about your tone. 

I think maybe my version of 'a scary hill' was not explained fully, I have done work with high intensity intervals etc, on a Turbo during the stormy season and look for the steepest challenging terrain I can find reasonably locally to measure my fitness progress, I'll do 12% fairly competently but it's 20+% ramps that get me. My TT doesn't seem to provide the same experience as actually getting out there, using weight shifts to keep the front wheel planted and measuring or gauging efforts, so I talked about using a small local road climb for a real world test. I think maybe I'm trying to do the whole climb a bit fast at the moment...Maybe I should be more aware of my cadence rate to start off with and not be trying to keep the speed up as much. But my stopping is just to get breath, 30 to 60 sec. only and then carrying on upwards. I never walk.


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Mar 2014)

ColinJ said:


> That's _from_ Kettlewell heading NNE up Coverdale, which I hadn't heard of until I rode that way, but I thought it was beautiful.
> 
> If you want a real challenge, ride over Fleet Moss to Hawes for a cafe stop, then come back over Fleet Moss from the harder side, back down to Kettlewell, and _then_ tackle Park Rash!



@ColinJ I did the Park Rash climb today colin, and it is a tough one although I wasn't in trouble at any stage. Did it in 34/23 as bottom gear sounded like spokes were rubbing against the derailleur.

http://app.strava.com/activities/122326261/segments/2732714790

I found the 'Trapping Hill' climb at Lofthouse quite a bit tougher although I'm a lot fitter now. If you haven't done that one it is well worth a visit.
http://cyclinguphill.com/trapping-hill-park-rash/


----------



## ColinJ (20 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> @ColinJ I did the Park Rash climb today colin, and it is a tough one although I wasn't in trouble at any stage. Did it in 34/13 as bottom gear sounded like spokes were rubbing against the derailleur.


Well done, but I hope you meant a 34/*2*3 bottom gear! 


uclown2002 said:


> @ColinJ
> I found the 'Trapping Hill' climb at Lofthouse quite a bit tougher although I'm a lot fitter now. If you haven't done that one it is well worth a visit.
> http://cyclinguphill.com/trapping-hill-park-rash/


Ah, I went _down_ that on the 200 km loop I did from Hebden Bridge to take in Park Rash. It had just started raining before I got to the descent and it was pretty slippery. I thought at the time that it would be a very hard climb.

I found the climb from Pateley Bridge to Greenhow harder than I'd expected, especially since I made the mistake of stopping on a steep section to answer my phone (wrong number!) and struggled to get going again.


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Mar 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Well done, but I hope you meant a 34/*2*3 bottom gear!
> 
> Ah, I went _down_ that on the 200 km loop I did from Hebden Bridge to take in Park Rash. It had just started raining before I got to the descent and it was pretty slippery. I thought at the time that it would be a very hard climb.
> 
> I found the climb from Pateley Bridge to Greenhow harder than I'd expected, especially since I made the mistake of stopping on a steep section to answer my phone (wrong number!) and struggled to get going again.



Yes 34/23 or perhaps 34/24 not sure how many teeth on second gear! 34/13 might have been asking for trouble


----------



## uclown2002 (20 Mar 2014)

http://app.strava.com/segments/6690987?filter=overall

That Greenhow climb isn't too bad as there are a few flat spots where I can get back in saddle for some respite. I'm 14th fastest there so guessing I might have had a tailwind


----------



## ColinJ (20 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> http://app.strava.com/segments/6690987?filter=overall
> 
> That Greenhow climb isn't too bad as there are a few flat spots where I can get back in saddle for some respite. I'm 14th fastest there so guessing I might have had a tailwind


Yes, I do remember that there were 3 or 4 steep sections. It does make a difference being able to relax for a few seconds between them!


----------



## montage (22 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> @ColinJ I did the Park Rash climb today colin, and it is a tough one although I wasn't in trouble at any stage. Did it in 34/23 as bottom gear sounded like spokes were rubbing against the derailleur.



Out of interest which side was this?


I did Park Rash last summer, after going up Fleet Moss and found it pretty tough! Much tougher than Fleet Moss!


----------



## uclown2002 (22 Mar 2014)

montage said:


> Out of interest which side was this?
> 
> 
> I did Park Rash last summer, after going up Fleet Moss and found it pretty tough! Much tougher than Fleet Moss!


From Kettlewell out towards Leyburn. S-N


----------



## ColinJ (22 Mar 2014)

Ha ha ... I just tried looking at the climb in Street view and there is a gap on the steep bit where the Google car obviously had problems getting up/down! The pictures go as far as looking up from the bottom of the steepest section, or looking back down towards it! The position where the Street view coverage restarts is pretty much where the Arrivee cover photo was taken - here.


----------



## gavroche (24 Mar 2014)

400bhp said:


> Gavroche spouting bollox again - there's a suprise.


My talking bollox is based on basic information and facts, but you are free to criticise me, I don't mind one bit.


----------



## sheffgirl (27 Mar 2014)

I can now do my whole commute each way without stopping, even on the hilly bits 
I dont know what did it, pacing myself or focussing on something else, like the potholes , but i managed it one day and now theres no stopping me 
i love seeing how quickly i have improved, it makes me want to push myself even more


----------



## sazzaa (28 Mar 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I dont know what did it, pacing myself or focussing on something else, like the potholes



Not looking up ahead seems to help me on hills! Head down and concentrating on something else works for me instead of looking at the massive hill I'm climbing!


----------



## ColinJ (28 Mar 2014)

It sounds really weird, but on a few occasions I have managed to get up steep hills without really noticing them because at the time I was deep in thought about work/family/life problems. It wasn't that I was fit, more a case of being more worried about things other than the pain in my legs and lungs.


----------



## sazzaa (28 Mar 2014)

I also listen to study material most commutes, if I'm concentrating on my French then the hills seem like they're not even happening!


----------



## Archie_tect (28 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> I also listen to study material most commutes, if I'm concentrating on my French then the hills seem like they're not even happening!


Écoutez et répétez. 
"Regardez où vous allez!". "Avez-vous vu ce camion?" 
"Vérifiez le passage pour piétons, imbécile!"
Now, try that on your own....


----------

