# SPDs + Singletrack: Discuss



## tjw_78 (2 Feb 2012)

I've just put SPDs on my MTB, and after a few rides am now happy that I'm not going to fall off. Did a nice 15 mile training ride in Swinley Forest last w/e, and was very happy. Except when I did a short section of single track, and suddenly felt rather anxious...


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## Dave7 (2 Feb 2012)

Interesting! I have SPDs on my road bike and am happy with them. I have just purchased a new MTB and it has SPDs as standard........not used it yet as I am unsure weather to change pedals.
I've never had or done any MTBing so look forward to more response.
NB at my age I no longer bounce if I fall off


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## ColinJ (2 Feb 2012)

I feel better knowing that my feet are not going to come off the pedals when I don't want them to. Having said that - I have the release tensions set to minimum so that I unclip in a hurry if I need to!


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## Doseone (2 Feb 2012)

Been using them on road for ages but only put them on the mtb a year or so ago. Jury is still out, on most stuff they are fine and i like the connected feeling. However, I still struggle a bit especially on steep very rocky uphill sections eg where you are almost at a standstill and have to put in a big push to get over a large rock and don't know if you're going to make it or not!!


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## Crackle (2 Feb 2012)

Don't like being clipped in on the mtn bike. Just wear big boots now.


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## spence (2 Feb 2012)

Wouldn't be anything else but clipped in. Just don't think about it, concentrate on going faster through the trees.


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## 007fair (2 Feb 2012)

+1 for clipped in. But I have single sided pedals so for some sections I unclip just in case. I fall much heavier now also


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Feb 2012)

clipped in for me. singletrack doubletrack fire road and tarmac.


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## mrmacmusic (2 Feb 2012)

Interesting discussion... Some of you will not doubt have read that I'm now the proud owner of a Cube Attention (owned previously by fellow CC'ers theloafer and cubist) and I've been swithering about fitting SPD's to it. I'm a complete convert to the clipless way having fitted them to my commuter (Flight), but I do have reservations about sticking them on the MTB...

Apart from having some boulder-bashing fun out on my own, the other role for the Cube is as "daddy's bike" – i.e. riding with my eldest daughter who's turning 11 (and getting new bike for her birthday on the 14th.. sshh!!), and also with my youngest (4 1/2 yrs old) in tow on a tag-a-long.

Now, I've not fallen yet (touch wood), but I really don't want my first clipless moment to be when I'm towing a precious cargo. I wonder if anybody uses (or has specifically avoided) SPDs in such circumstances? I do prefer the feeling of "connection" being clipped in, and I'm leaning (no pun intended) towards another set of Shimano M520's with the platform adaptors for when I'm in "Dad" mode. I guess the M324's would be an option too.

Any thoughts?


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## CopperCyclist (3 Feb 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I feel better knowing that my feet are not going to come off the pedals when I don't want them to. Having said that - I have the release tensions set to minimum so that I unclip in a hurry if I need to!



Ditto!

I'll ride red routes clipped in (not black, not that skilful!) and wouldn't do it any other way. I find it much more reassuring having my feet attached rather than bouncing off the pedals.


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## rollinstok (3 Feb 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I feel better knowing that my feet are not going to come off the pedals when I don't want them to. Having said that - I have the release tensions set to minimum so that I unclip in a hurry if I need to!


 
Ditto again..exactly what I used to do. I,m not doing the rough stuff these days but still use single sided spd,s for when I get a clear run or a hill.. I need the platform one side because of all the daytrippers and dogs clogging up my beautiful prom cycle path..its stop start all the way sometimes...wish they,d all go to Blackpool instead.


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## Crackle (3 Feb 2012)

Here is an article I read about a year ago which finally convinced me to ditch SPD's on the mtn bike. Well I didn't ditch, I've flats/spd's but I don't wear SPD shoes anymore.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2012)

mrmacmusic said:


> Any thoughts?


wear shoes without cleats when it Dad mode?


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2012)

I will confess to a little buttock tightening when riding clipped in on some rooty singletrack going across the side of a mountain (sheer drop on the left hand side) in the Alps a couple of years ago such that I unclipped for large sections of it. But that is the joy of the DX series clip and platform SPD.

And in my younger days, staying clipped kept the bike with me and saved me a few undignified scrambles down a mountain side to retrieve it post-off. I tend to have the tension on my chocolate foot a bit higher btw. Asymmetry is a terrible thing.


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## mrmacmusic (3 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> wear shoes without cleats when it Dad mode?


That would be the idea, yes... either the M324's (or M520's with platforms) would seem to be the ideal dual-purpose solution allowing me to be on flats with the kids in tow, and clipped in when trail bashing myself.


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## mrmacmusic (3 Feb 2012)

Crackle said:


> Here is an article I read about a year ago which finally convinced me to ditch SPD's on the mtn bike. Well I didn't ditch, I've flats/spd's but I don't wear SPD shoes anymore.


Thanks for posting that... interesting reading


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2012)

mrmacmusic said:


> That would be the idea, yes... either the M324's (or M520's with platforms) would seem to be the ideal dual-purpose solution allowing me to be on flats with the kids in tow, and clipped in when trail bashing myself.


Got M324's on the ruff stuff tourer but won't use them when MTB'ing. Too much faff to get the correct side uppermost when you _need_ to be clipped in.

I find M520's, which I have on one or two bikes, almost impossible to ride on for any distance when not clipped in.

M424 I reckon is the way to go, if budget is tight, or M545 if your more flush. I've more money than sense, and ride on the cleat choking clays of Sussex so I've got M647 on the mtb.

Wellgo do a range of removable pedals; I've a pair of spd's and a pair of flats to go on my Brompton. Takes about 5 seconds to swap them over. (Not a cheap option though)


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## mrmacmusic (3 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Got M324's on the ruff stuff tourer but won't use them when MTB'ing. Too much faff to get the correct side uppermost when you _need_ to be clipped in.
> 
> I find M520's, which I have on one or two bikes, almost impossible to ride on for any distance when not clipped in.
> 
> ...


Cheers Greg 

I'd spotted the M424s, which I guess are perfect if you want the option of cycling in normal footwear (i.e. trainers, walking shoes or, er, slippers). Since I habitually pull on my Shimano MTB shoes when riding now, the M424's would always end up being clipped in. With a "platform one side, cleats the other" pedal (such as the M324), I could wear my normal cycling shoes but ride either clipped in or not.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2012)

mrmacmusic said:


> Cheers Greg
> 
> I'd spotted the M424s, which I guess are perfect if you want the option of cycling in normal footwear (i.e. trainers, walking shoes or, er, slippers). Since I habitually pull on my Shimano MTB shoes when riding now, *the M424's would always end up being clipped in*. With a "platform one side, cleats the other" pedal (such as the M324), I could wear my normal cycling shoes but ride either clipped in or not.


 
A common misconception. You just move your foot slightly off the clipped in sweet spot and zero clippage occurs. Then pedal as if you were on flats. It only becomes a problem when you forget you are not clipped in!

I found the graunch graunch of cleat on pedal a little disconcerting, and it messes with the finish, but that is true of M324 too. Wearing mtb shoes with cleats on a platform pedal puts my teeth on edge tbh, and can be very very slippery. Got A520 on the fast tourer/audax bike. Riding on the platform side in mtb shoes (Spesh BG Sport) with cleats (not tired it in road shoes with cleats), especially when pushing off from a stop, is a hair raising experience; your feet just slide straight off the pedal, like ice on teflon,and I've got the scars on my shins to remind me.


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## mrmacmusic (3 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> A common misconception. You just move your foot slightly off the clipped in sweet spot and zero clippage occurs. Then pedal as if you were on flats. It only becomes a problem when you forget you are not clipped in!
> 
> I found the graunch graunch of cleat on pedal a little disconcerting, and it messes with the finish, but that is true of M324 too. Wearing mtb shoes with cleats on a platform pedal puts my teeth on edge tbh, and can be very very slippery. Got A520 on the fast tourer/audax bike. Riding on the platform side in mtb shoes (Spesh BG Sport) with cleats (not tired it in road shoes with cleats), especially when pushing off from a stop, is a hair raising experience; your feet just slide straight off the pedal, like ice on teflon,and I've got the scars on my shins to remind me.


Thanks again Greg – really appreciate that input. So do you not twist out the M424's as you would with the M520's (that I'm used to)..?


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Feb 2012)

afaik entry/exit is identical M424 vs M520 vs all Shimano SPD's i.e. exit is determined by cleat type (single/standard release SH51 or multi release SH56 ) not pedal itself.

Which begs the question... what cleats have you got?


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## VamP (3 Feb 2012)

Eggbeaters. Clipping AND unclipping is a cinch. And they are awesomely good at shedding mud!


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## mrmacmusic (3 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> afaik entry/exit is identical M424 vs M520 vs all Shimano SPD's i.e. exit is determined by cleat type (single/standard release SH51 or multi release SH56 ) not pedal itself.
> 
> Which begs the question... what cleats have you got?


Ah, I see... I did wonder. I've got standard SH51 cleats, so I guess I'll be twisting out regardless of which pedals I opt for. Off to see what the difference is with the SH56 "multi-release" cleats.


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## Cubist (3 Feb 2012)

Clipping out becomes so much of a second nature that there is virtually no chance of a clipless moment. It has the added bonus of making it second nature on the road too

They can become a bit of a disadvantage on steep rocky ascents, especially if you stutter to a halt and can't get going again, and if I know I'm going to be on stuff like that I have the M545s.


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## screenman (4 Feb 2012)

The article was about a down hiller, not a single track ride. I feel they are a bit different, I do agree with Cubist second nature and all that. I have used SPD since they come out so maybe I am a tad biased, seems odd riding not fixed in to be honest.


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## Red Light (4 Feb 2012)

Doseone said:


> However, I still struggle a bit especially on steep very rocky uphill sections eg where you are almost at a standstill and have to put in a big push to get over a large rock and don't know if you're going to make it or not!!


 
That's the incentive to make sure you put in the extra effort to make it. Its too easy to bail it early without clipless. I have used clipless mountainbiking for a decade and wouldn't do it any other way. It makes sure your feet only leave the pedals when you want them to and it gives you so much more handling control over the bike.


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## tjw_78 (4 Feb 2012)

Red Light said:


> That's the incentive to make sure you put in the extra effort to make it. Its too easy to bail it early without clipless. I have used clipless mountainbiking for a decade and wouldn't do it any other way. It makes sure your feet only leave the pedals when you want them to and it gives you so much more handling control over the bike.


 
I've only done one ride on the spds so far that wasn't flat, I I certainly felt the incentive to keep going on the hills, but there was certainly a panic feeling as I started to run out of gas.

I adventure race, and am really in two minds as to whether to keep the spds on, or go back to flats. The other niggling issue is that my wife is 8 months pregnant and this would be a really bad moment to have a crash of significance...


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Feb 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> I've only done one ride on the spds so far that wasn't flat, I I certainly felt the incentive to keep going on the hills, but there was certainly a panic feeling as I started to run out of gas.
> 
> I adventure race, and am really in two minds as to whether to keep the spds on, or go back to flats. The other niggling issue is that my wife is 8 months pregnant and this would be a really bad moment to have a crash of significance...


did plenty of polaris and trailquest adventure races when I was young, slim, and good looking. All on SPD's

I'd consider not MTB'ing competitively at all for a bit if SWMBO was about to pop...


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## Crackle (4 Feb 2012)

screenman said:


> The article was about a down hiller, not a single track ride. I feel they are a bit different, I do agree with Cubist second nature and all that. I have used SPD since they come out so maybe I am a tad biased, seems odd riding not fixed in to be honest.


 
They had an interview with a downhill guy but the rest of the article was just about riding flats or SPD's, course irrelevant.


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## gaz (4 Feb 2012)

I rode a few single track routes with SPD-SL's because i'm a pro


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## lukesdad (4 Feb 2012)

gaz said:


> I rode a few single track routes with SPD-SL's because i'm a pro


 Care to enlighten us what it is that you are a pro at gaz ?


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## gaz (4 Feb 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Care to enlighten us what it is that you are a pro at gaz ?


Falling off


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## lukesdad (4 Feb 2012)

We're all pros at that !


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## lukesdad (4 Feb 2012)

Allways ride clipped in with or without the kids http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/ride-today.50375/#post-987670


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## Keith Oates (6 Feb 2012)

When I started MTB/Offroading a few weeks ago I had platform pedals and didn't like it as my feet were slipping over bumps etc. so have fitted clipless. I went out with a group yesterday and did an 85 Km ride, which was mostly single track over some technical sections and found the clipless pedals were fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## marzjennings (12 Feb 2012)

I've riding and racing single track with spds since the '90s. Had a couple of spd moments in the first year, but now I can clip out without thinking about it, fast enough to catch myself when I begin to loose it in corners.
I can't imagine going back to flats, they just feel slower and I hate having my feet jump off the pedals in the rough stuff, never happens with spds.
It takes a while to become completely comfortable with spds, but it is so worth it.
The posted article was interesting, but in general wrong. For example spds offer a lower centre of gravity than flats, placing the spindle closer to the foot. Unless the article was talking about new skinny flats..


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## the_bing (12 Feb 2012)

clipped in. have done so for at least 15 years. wouldn't do it any other way. minimal tension on the cleats mean you can unclip quick. not too loose so you can still bunny hop stuff quickly (otherwise smashed nuts on the top tube)


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## Crackle (17 Feb 2012)

Just been mtb'ing last week and was thinking of this thread. Once again, clippless, just big boots on spd pedals with a platform side, the kids of course don't ride clipped pedals and whilst I'm not the most dynamic rider, son no1 definitely is, taking to the air on most jumps and none of us had any real problems, I certainly didn't feel less safe, nor did I feel I was at a disadvantage climbing. Not using clipped pedals mtb'ing suits me but it may not suit you is about the only conclusion you can draw really.


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## pshore (18 Feb 2012)

I've settled on M545 (flats with doubled sided spd) and ride with Specialized BG shoes. When I get to a knarly downhill I can unclip and get just enough grip on the pedal to be happy to stand and ride the technical parts. There is not enough grip to start doing big jumps unclipped like that. The 520s (spd but no flat cage) are too slippery to ride unclipped IMO.

SPD's are great for cross country style riding, but for highly technical twisty single track I love riding proper flats. I find I push it harder into corners because I know I can have a dab.


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## screenman (18 Feb 2012)

I find I can get a quick dab when clipped in, I do however find that I do not have to do it often. I suppose it is down to experience and confidence, I have used them since 1990 and do not feel at ease when not clipped in.


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## marekbuk (25 Feb 2012)

I've been using SPD's on my road bike for a couple of years now and have proudly never fallen off- however!!!!
Last weekend I fitted a pair of SPD's to my Felt Pro MB and went for a leisurely canal towpath ride up here in west yorks. Took the bikes off the car rack, shoes on and I' set off to follow my missus up and over a cobbled canal bridge over the canal. My wife stopped in at the top of the bridge to admire the stonework ( or whatever ) - I anticipated that she was going up and over the bridge so didn't see the stop coming - and neither did my feet! I topped over onto my left hand side - pedals firmly fixed to my feet! - 1 week later and I'm still shamed, bruised and limping! - yorkshire stone cobbles are hard I can tell you!
A Pair of Kona JackShit Primo pedals arrived in the post yesterday - these are going on today!!!


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2012)

sorry to disappoint but riding flats does not prevent you from falling off, especially if a misjudgement is the root cause. Gravity wins every time.


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## GilesM (28 Feb 2012)

I always ride clipped in, but this is more to do with the fact that the last time I rode a bike that I wasn't mechanically attached to was in 1977. The common wisdom amongst the best riders seems to be that it is better to learn to ride properly off road with flats, and then when you move to clipless you have the benefit of the clipless pedals, but the correct skills, I plan to get some flats and spend a few months riding with them, as this should make me a better rider, however, clipless have become my comfort blanket and I'm struggling to think about riding without them, definately make sure I've got some shin pads on when I first try the flats. I never have a problem unclipping, I think it does become second nature and very natural after a while, and I do ride some very technical rocky, rooty, steep stuff, at the weekend I road some very steep hidden trails at Innerleithen (too steep to walk up type stuff) and as cubist mentioned in similar situations, getting going after stopping can a bit tricky, but there were lots of trees to hold onto as I clipped in. If you just want to enjoy your riding and have fun on normal trails, learn to ride with the clipless and stick with them until you have no concerns, if you want to take on more serious stuff, have a go with flats just to help your skills along.


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## Reluctant (29 Feb 2012)

I did my off road learning with toe clips and straps! But then saw the light and got SPDs in '92 - they're better than sliced bread. 
The OP is riding in Swinley Forest, which is 95% easy flowing singletrack, nothing too gnarly and ideal to get used to SPDing. Keep at it - you'll be fine


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## GilesM (29 Feb 2012)

Reluctant said:


> I did my off road learning with toe clips and straps!


 
I rode my first mtb with clips and straps for a couple of years, but I really didn't do anything techincal enough to really worry about getting my feet out quickly, the thought of riding the stuff I do now with toe clips is a bit scary. I rode cyclocross with clips and straps, and shoe plates, (special cyclocross ones with spikes for helping you run up muddy slopes) looking back that really was bad, however that was a few years before Look had invented the first clipless road pedals.


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## ultraviolet (1 Mar 2012)

i love spd's on easy stuff like 'out of town' road riding or non-technical XC, but, soon as you have to slow right down to a snails pase on a peace of very technical singletrack where a foot off might have to be done very quickly spd's just are not the right tool for the job


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

ultraviolet said:


> i love spd's on easy stuff like 'out of town' road riding or non-technical XC, but, soon as you have to slow right down to a snails pase on a peace of very technical singletrack where a foot off might have to be done very quickly spd's just are not the right tool for the job


Practise those same techy bits on flats first so that you can learn to carry the speed and line through them. Once you have mastered the basics then you can think of progressing. Unclipping shouldn't be a big deal. I cannot think of the last time that I actually had to THINK about unclipping. It's simply a part of riding.


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

Cross country bikes... yes,

Downhill ... No!


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## GilesM (1 Mar 2012)

Speedywheelsjeans said:


> Cross country bikes... yes,
> 
> Downhill ... No!


 
Some of the downhillers now ride clipped in. I think Danny Hart and Sam Hill always do.


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## GilesM (1 Mar 2012)

Cubist said:


> Practise those same techy bits on flats first so that you can learn to carry the speed and line through them. Once you have mastered the basics then you can think of progressing. Unclipping shouldn't be a big deal. *I cannot think of the last time that I actually had to THINK about unclipping. It's simply a part of riding*.


 
I totally agree, it becomes so natural after a while, I can remember a few occassions recently on slow techy sections where I hae had to unclip quickly to prevent a fall, and I don't think it took any longer than if I'd been on flats.


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## ultraviolet (1 Mar 2012)

Cubist said:


> Practise those same techy bits on flats first so that you can learn to carry the speed and line through them. Once you have mastered the basics then you can think of progressing. Unclipping shouldn't be a big deal. I cannot think of the last time that I actually had to THINK about unclipping. It's simply a part of riding.


 
practice? one of the nicest things about singletrack trail riding is not knowing whats coming up. but, i surpose if your on purpose made MTB tracks with a convenient carpark and a small cake shop this is great advice :-)


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## Crackle (1 Mar 2012)

ultraviolet said:


> practice? one of the nicest things about singletrack trail riding is not knowing whats coming up. but, i surpose if your on purpose made MTB tracks with a convenient carpark and a small cake shop this is great advice :-)


 
Never underestimate a cake shop, especially one that does a full Welsh breakfast as well.

And seriously, trail centres often have a skills area you can practise on.


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## ultraviolet (1 Mar 2012)

Crackle said:


> Never underestimate a cake shop, especially one that does a full Welsh breakfast as well.
> 
> And seriously, trail centres often have a skills area you can practise on.


 
very true. been riding MTB since '84' and i've found that flats work perfectly for the type of off-roading i do. get the right ones and your feet will never slip off in any weather, just not that good up-hill


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

GilesM said:


> Some of the downhillers now ride clipped in. I think Danny Hart and Sam Hill always do.


 Yea, but have you seen those guys!!


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## GilesM (1 Mar 2012)

Speedywheelsjeans said:


> Yea, but have you seen those guys!!


 
They're not bad at that bike riding thing


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

ultraviolet said:


> practice? one of the nicest things about singletrack trail riding is not knowing whats coming up. but, i surpose if your on purpose made MTB tracks with a convenient carpark and a small cake shop this is great advice :-)


If I come across a piece of "organic" trail that needs a lot of thinking, I'll go back a do it until I'm confident. It's not about the trail itself, it's about upping my own confidence and skill levels. If it's that bad I'm off and walking anyway............


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2012)

ultraviolet said:


> very true. been riding MTB since '84' and i've found that flats work perfectly for the type of off-roading i do. get the right ones and your feet will never slip off in any weather, just not that good up-hill


I've been riding off road since I discovered "bombing down the woods" in 1968. 'Proper' MTB ownership/riding since '94 and I've found SPD's work perfectly for all the types of off-roading I do. Get the right ones and your feet will never slip off in any weather, you won't have a problem unclipping, and they are great up-hill.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2012)

ultraviolet said:


> practice? one of *the nicest things about singletrack trail riding is not knowing whats coming up*. but, i surpose if your on purpose made MTB tracks with a convenient carpark and a small cake shop this is great advice :-)


 
in these parts that is mostly called 'trespassing'


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

GilesM said:


> They're not bad at that bike riding thing


 
Yea they do alright


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

GilesM said:


> They're not bad at that bike riding thing


Not so good at sitting down though.


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## AncientWyvern (1 Mar 2012)

I use m520's. £30 quid plus shoes, feels great. Double sided so no need to worry about positing just clip in.


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## ultraviolet (2 Mar 2012)

GregCollins said:


> in these parts that is mostly called 'trespassing'


 
i call that getting a little lost :-)


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## tjw_78 (21 Mar 2012)

Thanks for the many, many comments.

My main reason for MTBing is Adventure Racing (if you're not familiar: http://www.adidas-ar.com/2011/ and http://www.triadventure.co.uk/).

Since getting spds (M520s) at Christmas (see original post) I've been praticing, and do generally like them a great deal.

However, in this period I've done two 2-hour races:
In Feb I rode with the spds. They were great going up hill, but in a few of the down hill spots I got very nervous, and consequently became very slow. Add to this time taken swapping shoes during transition (from the trail run) and I had a poor race. I just scrapped into the top 30.
In March I put on a pair of new flats (Nukeproof Protons). Perhaps I lost some speed on the flat, but I was just so more secure going down hill. Had a much better race and had a good top-20 finish.

The problem tends to be that because the spds are under the ball of the foot I can't seem to get my weight far enough back on the bike to have control of it. (I'm a very lanky 6'2"). On the flats I can shift my feet into a different, and better position for the descent.

I think I will keep the flats on the MTB for the time being, for both short races, and having fun at Swinley. If I'm doing something longer, which is likely to be generally benign, then I stick on the spds.

I may be 34 but have only been riding for just over a year. Picked up first road bike the other day - I think, once I'm used to it, the spds will go there.


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## GrumpyGregry (21 Mar 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> The problem tends to be that because the spds are under the ball of the foot I can't seem to get my weight far enough back on the bike to have control of it. (I'm a very lanky 6'2"). On the flats I can shift my feet into a different, and better position for the descent.


hmmm... see my picture
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 

I'm a very chunky 6' 2" and clipped in can ride with my arse touching my rear tyre, without dropping my seatpost from its normal postion, in complete control. Is that far enough back?


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## tjw_78 (21 Mar 2012)

Yeah, I can't do that


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## Cubist (21 Mar 2012)

You need to feel confident simply dropping your heels. You get best benefit of that from having the ball of your feed on the pedal spindle.


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## tjw_78 (21 Mar 2012)

More practice needed. However I've got a 4 week old baby so can't see that happening any time soon. All training time goes into doing miles...


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## GrumpyGregry (21 Mar 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> More practice needed. However I've got a 4 week old baby so can't see that happening any time soon. All training time goes into doing miles...


you can practise it on the flat. it is how it is taught, and I don't know why but it is actually quite good fun....


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## Cubist (22 Mar 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> More practice needed. However I've got a 4 week old baby so can't see that happening any time soon. All training time goes into doing miles...


Car Park Captain time. ..... get into an empty car park and learn body shift, wheelies, manuals, trackstands, bunny hops, pedal hops, speed hops, stairs, drop-offs, log rolls....... behave like a teenager on a BMX. By the time you hit the trails you'll be chocolate. Oh, and keep ypur SPDs!


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Mar 2012)

Cubist said:


> Car Park Captain time. ..... get into an empty car park and learn body shift, wheelies, manuals, trackstands, bunny hops, pedal hops, speed hops, stairs, drop-offs, log rolls....... behave like a teenager on a BMX. By the time you hit the trails you'll be chocolate. Oh, and keep ypur SPDs!


If there was a 'Love' button for a post I'd click it. I'd only say, start on grass.


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## GilesM (23 Mar 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> Yeah, I can't do that


 
How long is your stem, perhaps a slightly shorter reach would help, it would also improve your position for steep descents.

I just had a look at the adventure racing links, that looks horrible and is just going to be hours of pain, good luck.


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## tjw_78 (30 Mar 2012)

GilesM said:


> How long is your stem, perhaps a slightly shorter reach would help, it would also improve your position for steep descents.
> 
> I just had a look at the adventure racing links, that looks horrible and is just going to be hours of pain, good luck.


 
Trouble is, its better to have the seat post higher on the long drags in between the technical sections. Its all compromise....


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## lukesdad (30 Mar 2012)

IMO this is all about technique and confidence and the only way to improve both is practice.


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## lukesdad (30 Mar 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> Trouble is, its better to have the seat post higher on the long drags in between the technical sections. Its all compromise....


Never ever compromise


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Mar 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Never ever compromise


everything about an mtb is a compromise.


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## lukesdad (31 Mar 2012)

GregCollins said:


> everything about an mtb is a compromise.


Thats not a reason for you to do the same, more of an excuse.


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## tjw_78 (31 Mar 2012)

Hehe, stop squabbling! 

My new roadie is bloody fast, but would break on the rough stuff - see, compromise!


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## GilesM (3 Apr 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> Trouble is, its better to have the seat post higher on the long drags in between the technical sections. Its all compromise....


 
Sorry I wasn't very clear, I was refering to your handlebar stem length, a shorter stem can often help with the weight distribution on the descents. Also try a gravity dropper seat post, expensive, and a bit heavier, I've had one on my full suss for the last few months, I love it, so easy to change the saddle height on the move.


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## tjw_78 (3 Apr 2012)

GilesM said:


> Sorry I wasn't very clear, I was refering to your handlebar stem length, a shorter stem can often help with the weight distribution on the descents. Also try a gravity dropper seat post, expensive, and a bit heavier, I've had one on my full suss for the last few months, I love it, so easy to change the saddle height on the move.


 
No, its all right. I mis-read your post. I can see that would make sense, although concerned it would cramp me up on the flat. I'm tall, but much of my height is in my back, not my legs (my MTB (Spesh Rockhopper) I bought 'off-the-shelf', but my road bike has been set up properly for me, and I have a medium-large frame (Giant Defy), and but a really long stem).

The Gravity dropper seat post sounds interesting, might look into that as it could really help. How expensive?


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## GilesM (3 Apr 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> No, its all right. I mis-read your post. I can see that would make sense, although concerned it would cramp me up on the flat. I'm tall, but much of my height is in my back, not my legs (my MTB (Spesh Rockhopper) I bought 'off-the-shelf', but my road bike has been set up properly for me, and I have a medium-large frame (Giant Defy), and but a really long stem).
> 
> The Gravity dropper seat post sounds interesting, might look into that as it could really help. How expensive?


 
I came from the world of road riding into mtbing, it was a while before I really realised the benefit of the shorter stem, but I'm now totally converted, to help stop the cramped up feel, the wider bar option is also a big help.

For gravity dropper seatposts:

The one that seems to be the favourite at the moment and always gets the best reviews is the Rockshox Reverb, and it's pricey, see link:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=66878

However, you may be limited by your seat tube inside diameter, the smallest for the Reverb and many others makes is 30.9mm, so if like me you have a bike with 27.2mm, you are quite limited, which is why I went for one of these from Fusion, still pricey, and probably needs a bit more maintenance than the Reverb, but it does work well, and I'd hate riding of road without one now.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/x-fusion-hilo-suspension-remote-seat-post/


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## Cubist (3 Apr 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> No, its all right. I mis-read your post. I can see that would make sense, although concerned it would cramp me up on the flat. I'm tall, but much of my height is in my back, not my legs (my MTB (Spesh Rockhopper) I bought 'off-the-shelf', but my road bike has been set up properly for me, and I have a medium-large frame (Giant Defy), and but a really long stem).
> 
> The Gravity dropper seat post sounds interesting, might look into that as it could really help. How expensive?


Several on the market right now. (I'm gonna put one on my new build)
Crank Bros Joplin, which work well and you can find at £110 with straight lever or £130 with a handlebar remote. Review well in current guise.
Pure Racing KS i950 Again, reviews well and is out there for around the £180 mark , with added remote options.
Giant Contact. Only available in 30.9 apparently, but cheap at £150- 170 all in.
Gravity droppers range from simple £170 to remote etc at £240 plus. 
Rockshox Reverb. Industry standard and absolute favourite, £200 plus incl remote, but folk swear by them

Crank Bros have just announced a new type, the "kronolog" with an air spring instead of hydraulics, and this may well be lighter. No idea how much they'll be or when they'll be available, but it looks good in the release photos.


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## tjw_78 (3 Apr 2012)

Hmm, its a nice idea. But with a 6 week old baby spending all my bike money of nappies (seriously, I forked out £300 on the little 'un yesterday - love to pieces though), I think I'll take a rain check. 

Right now what is going to make me faster in AR races is training, and running faster!


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## GilesM (3 Apr 2012)

tjw_78 said:


> Hmm, its a nice idea. But with a 6 week old baby spending all my bike money of nappies (seriously, I forked out £300 on the little 'un yesterday - love to pieces though), I think I'll take a rain check.
> 
> Right now what is going to make me faster in AR races is training, and running faster!


 
Unfortunately, the only real way to go faster is more training or EPO, I'd stick with the training option.


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## tjw_78 (3 Apr 2012)

GilesM said:


> Unfortunately, the only real way to go faster is more training or EPO, I'd stick with the training option.


Don't Evans have a sale on EPO at the moment?


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