# Ping: fellow depressives



## Twenty Inch (19 Nov 2009)

What do you do when it starts coming down again? I need your help. PM me if you don't want to out yourself here.

Thoughts gratefully received.

TI


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## mad al (19 Nov 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> What do you do when it starts coming down again? I need your help. PM me if you don't want to out yourself here.
> 
> Thoughts gratefully received.
> 
> TI




Is it the "what if?" situation? If so, the best advice I was ever given was that there is *no* "what if?" Helped me no end.

Alan


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## Dayvo (19 Nov 2009)

I don't get 'depressed' in itself! 

I suffer from SAD and actively seek go away for a few months each winter (especially living here in Scandinavia where it is UNBEARABLE) to sun and warmth.

If things get me down, I try and do something about it; if I can't then it's time to move on (menatlly and/or physically).

I appreciate that not everyone lives the kind of lifestyle I do, but the pieces are slowly into place. 

I think trying to remain active (physically and mentally) helps with maintaining a positive mood, as does having something to look forward to: a holiday, a visit somewhere, going on a course to learn/do something!

Hope you start picking up again soon!


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## Mark_C (19 Nov 2009)

Have a shuftie at some of the articles on here:

http://positivepsychology.org.uk/

No miracle cure of course, but might just get your mind going in the right direction.


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## AlanW (19 Nov 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> What do you do when it starts coming down again? I need your help. PM me if you don't want to out yourself here.
> 
> Thoughts gratefully received.
> 
> TI



Silly as it seems, but I get out and ride my bike. I watched my father suffer with depression for over 50 years, his problem was that he had nothing to fall back on, no hobbies as such.

He used to go up the garden to his shed and then wallow in his own self pity, and to make matters worse mum just let him do it.

However, in saying that his biggest problem was that he never admitted that he had a "problem", so he never sought help, until it was to late. 

My sister committed suicide just over a year ago, it seems that she also decided to suffer in silence until she "thought" that she had no other option. 

So with regret I have a family history of depression sufferers. Me included for a few weeks when my dad passed away. But I stopped taking the tablets that the doctor had prescribed and went and did more miles on my bike. Its the best medicine by far and it has no side affects either!

Its a horrible, horrible place to be at, and a place that I hopefully will never return to. But if you have posted on here, then its a major step forward to getting yourself out of it.

I am sure that there are plenty of people on here that can, and will help you, even if its just talking on line. At least you are not sitting alone as my father used to. 

As already mentioned, book something up, no matter how slight or minor it may seem, its something to look forward to.


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## Fab Foodie (19 Nov 2009)

Remove yourself from the cause(s) of your downturn.
Live each day or if needs be each hour in small simple compartments. Keep your plans simple and as stress-free as possible.
Get plenty of sleep.
Take gentle excercise.
Avoid alcohol, stay hydrated.
Make the most of your friends.
Take a few days off and have a change of scenery/routine for a few days.
Eat plenty of fresh products, take Cod-liver Oils (DHA/EPA).

Most of all, take time for yourself, talk to those who will listen, let your pals love you, talk here if anonymity helps.
Depression's a horrible, horrible debilitating thing, but you're not alone and you will pull through. 
Take it easy. FF->.


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## ACS (19 Nov 2009)

Ti, you have a PM


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## Soltydog (19 Nov 2009)

Most of what Fab Foodie says works for me.

Cut down on the carbs & sugary stuff, cause that certainly didn't help me.

Talk to friends, or anyone you can, I'm sure they'll all support & help you if they know you need it


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## mad al (20 Nov 2009)

Nice to see these replies folks. I have to take anti-depressants (high dosage) and find it quite easy to talk about it, not only on line but face to face for those who need to know.

I think, as already said, you have to come to terms with it and to even admit to yourself that there is a problem is a *huge* challenge for most folk. I was so blind to the fact that I had a problem until one day when I had blown up again!!!! I gave myself a choice, loose everything I had, loved, cherished and up until that very point in time, lived for, or do something about it.

The "something about it" in my case was professional help and meds and since that time I have never looked back.

I am much happier and OK, my life will never be the same, but I lose myself in everything that gives me a high, be it family, our pets, music or the good old cycling. There is a lot to be said about the "healthy body/healthy mind" in my opinion

I've set my sights on time trialling in 2010, will I get there? Who knows, as I have arrived at stage in my life when what I can't do today, I do tomorrow

I have referred to the *"problem"* in this reply, it is only this if you let it be

Alan.


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## tyred (20 Nov 2009)

I found Arctic Root (Rhodiola Rosea) really helfpul. Should be avaialbale from any herbal rememedy shop.
*
*


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## shouldbeinbed (20 Nov 2009)

A Good diet of good quality natural food - when I'm recovering my food bill goes up £30 a week getting fresh and as chemical free as possible nutritionist advised stuff (effective tho), plenty of physical activity that gets you out of breath and your heart pumping and having someone trained to talk to who you can build up a completely trusting rapport with. if you can cry in front of them you're well on the way.

it sounds like this is a repetitive thing from your post, have you got a diagosis of a cyclical/repetitive depressive illness or is reactive to other stressors in life. Whichever way, a trip to the GP might be an idea to get onto a treatment regiment that can smooth out the peaks and troughs and/or is there ready to kick in with a short sharp boost when you recognise the signs that you're sinking too far.

physical activity floods your system with adrenaline and endorphins which counter the noradrenaline and downers that a depressed mind stimulates production of and which make you feel worse. Depression is catch 22 downward spiral in body chemistry terms.

get out on the bike even if you don't feel like it and your legs are jelly.


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## Speicher (20 Nov 2009)

IIRC there are foods which can increase your serotonin levels. Brazil nuts being one of them. But with my fondness for Brazil nuts, I can easily consume too many in one day, with regard to the calories, instead of the half dozen that would be recommended. 

Shouldbeinbed, you have suggested improved diet, can you suggest other serotonin enhancing foods. Or is it that they act as Serontonin re-uptake inhibitors? When you are depressed, it is easy to get confused and then discouraged from looking into these options.


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## Hacienda71 (20 Nov 2009)

St Johns Wort if you are not on prescription meds for it also 5HTP from Holland and Barrett. Good food and lots of exercise. If it is this time of year when you get the feeling could be SADS you can get lights that help.


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## postman (20 Nov 2009)

I think we all go through it sometime or other.I am struggling myself at the mo.

I retired 3 years ago and i am missing the man to man buddy type thing.

Thats why i enjoy my cycling so much.And i always enjoy fridays its mums and toddlers.I meet people.

All the best to you.


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## trio25 (21 Nov 2009)

Cycling for me is a big one. The best thing is commuting as I have to get out, if it was just going for a ride I wouldn't. But as I have no choice I get out, 30minutes later and I am feeling a bit better.


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## SilentSoulDragon (22 Nov 2009)

I've been coping for the past few years. One of the best things to happen was when whilst on new deal I had to do a voluntary placement somewhere. I started at a youth centre in Perth the first month was like I couldn't be bothered because I was only asked to do small jobs like photocopying, making up packs that the youth workers took with them at night on the weekends. But the next 2 months something kinda clicked and I realized that I liked helping people even if it was something small.

After the two months were up I stayed on to help for £50 per week I stayed there for a whole year during that time I helped with and ran training sessions for the young people and also done a talk about my depression which was the hardest thing to do but in doing so one of the young people mentioned his problems. So it had a positive effect even to this day the management still talk about me to the new generation of volunteers (kinda got nick-named the legend).

Now even though I still have bad times I remember that I can work through it even if the course I am on gets me down at times I just have to remember I am doing it so I can do the same as I was doing as a volunteer but at a paid level.


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## Twenty Inch (23 Nov 2009)

Folks thanks for the replies. Sorry I went quiet there but our internet at home is out of commission. 

Thanks so much for all the advice and the good wishes and caring. Some is this is physical, I am certain - an underactive thyroid. Some is perhaps seasonal. Some is innate - when I first realised that I have depression (or that I am a depressive) I also realised that I have had episodes from way back - even as a child.

There are also triggers - there's uncertainty at work, a lack of management and direction following a merger. SWMBO and I are having a bad time. There a load of work to be done on the house, although I moved that forward this weekend, Hurrah!

Our diet is good - we grow a lot of our own veg, cook from fresh, eat loads of fruit, don't eat junk or takeaways or snacks – I can't remember the last time I had a packet of crisps. And the cycle to work gives me exercise and daylight. I'm convinced these last two factors stop me from falling further, faster, when an episode starts.

I’ve taken medication in the past, and have been glad to do so. I’ve also gone back to work before I needed to as I’m sure it helps me. I am taking things very carefully at the moment, trying to be cognizant of the effects on my relationship, our little boy, my colleagues. 

My boss has just emailed me with a caring email about my wellbeing and has opened the door to having some time off, which I am inclined to take. 

I need to get back in contact with close friends who know me and understand how my head works – I am a member of a self-help fellowship and that is a huge help but I have neglected it recently. I’ve just dived back in and got myself a commitment there to make sure I go.

Thanks to all who have PM’ed – I’ll respond individually.

Still want to eat carbs and sugary stuff though.


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## yoyo (23 Nov 2009)

I am also hypothyroid with low adrenal reserve. This time of year is not good for depression and I sympathize with you. Stressful situations send me backwards in spite of medication. If you have the offer of time off work, you should perhaps not look a gift horse in the mouth and get back to friends. 

If you are craving carbs and sugar, do you think your thyroid medication is sufficiently high enough? It is true that once the thyroid / adrenals are fully support that depressive symptoms and food cravings disappear.


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## Twenty Inch (24 Nov 2009)

yoyo said:


> I am also hypothyroid with low adrenal reserve. This time of year is not good for depression and I sympathize with you. Stressful situations send me backwards in spite of medication. If you have the offer of time off work, you should perhaps not look a gift horse in the mouth and get back to friends.
> 
> If you are craving carbs and sugar, do you think your thyroid medication is sufficiently high enough? It is true that once the thyroid / adrenals are fully support that depressive symptoms and food cravings disappear.



Yoyo thanks for this - it makes more sense that hypothyroidism is the culprit, linked to the time of year. I'm not on thyroid medication, as I'm a borderline case, and the doc said that once on the meds, you never come off, so he was reluctant. At the time I was furious as I just wanted to feel better, but now I'm glad. 

I've arranged a conversation with my boss, so we'll see where that goes. 

Cheers

TI


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## SilentSoulDragon (24 Nov 2009)

Good to hear you have a caring boss. 

When I last worked even with 4 years working there when my depression got really bad. That I was sectioned for 9 days 4 of which were voluntary I was basically pushed out after I got back.


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## yoyo (24 Nov 2009)

' I'm not on thyroid medication, as I'm a borderline case, and the doc said that once on the meds, you never come off, so he was reluctant.'

TwentyInch, All GPs say this. They don't want to spend the money on patients. You actually need to be medicated and then your health will improve. I have had to go down the private route for this. Do PM me if you wish.


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## ASC1951 (25 Nov 2009)

I half slumbered through an item on the radio this morning which said that for moderate to severe depression, CBT plus some medication was far more effective than medication alone in reducing the recurrence of depression.


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## Hacienda71 (25 Nov 2009)

ASC1951 said:


> I half slumbered through an item on the radio this morning which said that for moderate to severe depression, CBT plus some medication was far more effective than medication alone in reducing the recurrence of depression.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8375929.stm


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## Perfect Virgo (25 Nov 2009)

I don't mind outing myself here. My story might interest you. I have suffered from severe bouts of depression over 30 years. Contributing factors for me have been, woeful under-achievement, lack of confidence, low self-esteem, frustration in a long career and marital discontent (because of or influencing the foregoing, I'm not sure). I can hear echoes of my condition in yours TI.

I find myself in total agreement with *Fab Foodie* (not for the first time)! His advice is sound. *shouldbeinbed* is spot on too. Exercise and diet have been successful at holding my own black dog at bay. I tried medication but ended up weaning myself off as I felt very uncomfortable artificially altering my brain chemistry.* But I must stress, that was my personal choice. Your GP's advice should of course be heeded.*

Several years ago I tried cognitive therapy but I abandoned it when the therapist left me with all my troubles unpacked on the table between us but no firm guidance for dealing with them. It was a poor experience with a weak therapist but I was put off repeating it. Also I have a history of "going-it-alone" having for example quit a heavy alcohol dependence cold turkey 15 years ago.

In 2006 I really bit the bullet and changed my life completely. I took a very early retirement, ended a 30 year marriage, gave away almost everything, said ‘see you soon’ to my adult sons, emigrated to Canada and remarried. When the process was complete I found it cripplingly painful and suffered a wave of deep depression from which I am now emerging, with the forbearance of a new wife. Of course, I know I changed too much all at once and am still coming to terms with the enormity of it all. It is certainly not to be recommended.

One positive thing I don't believe anyone has mentioned is creativity. That can be greatly therapeutic for some people if they have that inclination. I find writing is a great release on the days when I can't get out on the bike. I also spend days immersed in photography. Music too is a powerful way to calm or stimulate the mind if you listen really closely and with no distractions. One important thing I shipped over here is my large CD collection. Music has been a tonic and I'm often found loitering in the Chain thread!

We have a Canadian winter approaching that will as usual bring regular daily lows of minus 15-20C but I am actually quite looking forward to it! My new life and routines, diet and exercise have given me a positive outlook. So, no magic answers from me just my tale.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

I take great comfort from looking after my dogs. My businesses went under and two days later I suffered a heart attack. My wife and I were living in a house owned by my mother in law and she sent us notice to quit because we had no income to pay the rent, (my wife worked with me in the business).

Terrible time but my two dogs got me out of the house and I started to ride a bike again to get fit. Got ourselves sorted now although I can no longer work. Unfortunately I lost the dogs within a month of each other a year ago. Very upsetting and I missed them terribly so bought a new puppy and then another and they produced a puppy in September so now have three Jack Russells.

They are hard work but an absolute joy. If you like dogs then I would recommend getting one.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

yep we ve always had dogs mans best friend .


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## lukesdad (26 Nov 2009)

Bill I know we ve had or differences elsewhere on the forum but, you ve got to keep looking forward looking back will only cause heartache. Massive respect to what you ve acheived in the past.Chin up and go get em. Glad to hear you re back on the bike.

We ve lost 2 of our dogs in the last 2 years and cant describe the loss felt. we ve got a new addition a choc. lab. what a bundle of joy.Regards.


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## Twenty Inch (26 Nov 2009)

Virgo that's quite a story. Some people call it "Doing a geographical".

I've levelled off and even improved a little over the last couple of days. Sharing here helped. I've started taking kelp and a pantothenic acid supplement, which may be helping. I've also got back into challenging the negative thinking. It might not be so bad this time.


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## Twenty Inch (26 Nov 2009)

Just googled "serotonin foods" and found this:

http://www.foodforthebrain.org/content.asp?id_Content=1635

Mackerel tonight, I think.


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## Perfect Virgo (26 Nov 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> Virgo that's quite a story. Some people call it "Doing a geographical".
> 
> I've levelled off and even improved a little over the last couple of days. Sharing here helped. I've started taking kelp and a pantothenic acid supplement, which may be helping. I've also got back into *challenging the negative thinking*. It might not be so bad this time.


That is the very centre of the issue and success at it marks the turnaround point. I haven't managed it properly before so my recoveries have always been fragile.

Good luck with the fish dish.


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## Speicher (26 Nov 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> Just googled "serotonin foods" and found this:
> 
> http://www.foodforthebrain.org/content.asp?id_Content=1635
> 
> Mackerel tonight, I think.



Thank you for that link, Twenty Inch. I have printed it and will be reading it later.


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## joolsybools (26 Nov 2009)

Good luck with your recovery. If you haven't considered it before, it may be an idea to look into some personal development type courses too. I've done things like assertiveness and self esteem. Some local adult ed colleages do this. I'm not sure where you are but some ideas in London are:

http://www.marywardcentre.ac.uk/courses/Personal/CoursesPersonal.asp

http://www.citylit.ac.uk/courses/Psychology,_counselling_&_personal_development/Personal_development


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## Kirstie (28 Nov 2009)

Having been a sufferer in the past and knowing many people who also suffer all I would say is don't give up. A really good book that was recommended to me is Dorothy Rowe's 'Depression: The way out of your prison' and I would recommend it to anyone. Take everything a day at a time.


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## Speicher (28 Nov 2009)

I have read that book. She writes in a way that is easy to follow. I have a few of her other books as well.


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## Mr Farley (29 Nov 2009)

I haven't really got anything to add to what's already been said, but the honesty and kindness of some of the comments on here are really astounding .


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## Twenty Inch (30 Nov 2009)

Feeling somewhat better, and although not brilliant it does seem as if the slide has been halted. I picked up some chromium picolinate at the weekend, we'll see whether that complements the kelp and vit B supplements. Thanks for kind words everyone.


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## Twenty Inch (3 Dec 2009)

I'm taking a few days off work and will probably go back part-time, 8 - 4, 4 days per week. This will give me some more time off, and also help my wife as I can pick up and feed the little fellow and then make some supper, for when she comes home.

Quite looking forward to it, actually.

Thanks for all your good wishes.

TI


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## Speicher (3 Dec 2009)

That sounds like an excellent idea, Twenty Inch. It gives you more time, and gives you time with your son, and helps your wife. I hope the work does not invade your "day off". I hope it goes well for you.

I had started to feel depressed again. I have now managed to delegate some of the things people were expecting me to do. Even told someone, in a very nice sort of way, that something they wanted me to do for them, they were capable of doing it themselves, and suggested how they do it. 

Just regaining some semblage of control, has been a good start for me.


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## trio25 (4 Dec 2009)

I've had a rocky couple of weeks and I think its the weather. The sun is out today and I am feeling good. About to get the bike out and go the long way to work!


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2009)

trio25 said:


> I've had a rocky couple of weeks and I think its the weather. The sun is out today and I am feeling good. About to get the bike out and go the long way to work!


I suffer from S.A.D. so this time of year is always difficult but I've been blasting myself with my lightbox to take the edge off it. Despite that, I can hardly remember anything about November, other than the fact that it was very wet, windy and gloomy!  

Despite the foul weather I was perked up a bit by a ride with colly, Alun and Crimmey at the weekend. Making the effort to get out and do something certainly helps.

Yes, the sunshine does make a _big_ difference. It's sunny here today too, and I just got a call asking me out for a hilly walk so today should be okay.

It's less than 3 weeks to the Winter Solstice now, and things always start to feel better after that as the evenings start to lighten again. I don't mind so much about the cold, it's the short wretched gloomy days that I can't stand.

Hang on in there everybody!


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2009)

Sunshine and blue skies here too today. I can see huge amounts of sky.


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## trio25 (4 Dec 2009)

It was so nice today to get out and see the sun, in fact it was blinding me at times. So different to the last few weeks where even riding at lunchtime (a regular occurance due to my job) I had to have my lights on!


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2009)

Speicher said:


> Sunshine and blue skies here too today. I can see huge amounts of sky.





trio25 said:


> It was so nice today to get out and see the sun, in fact it was blinding me at times.








Crikey - what's that behind the trees?  

It's amazing how much difference a couple of hours in the sunshine can make.

I'm glad that you've been feeling better too TI.


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## cheadle hulme (4 Dec 2009)

Just to add to the previous 3 posts.....clear sky + exercise + sunshine = at least 60mg Citalopram (or whatever your poison is!)

I've been to the bottom over the last 6 months, I'm now floating back near the top. An even keel would be nice, but Christmas brings its own waves.

Well done to Virgo for such an honest post. Try to keep happy folks.


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## Perfect Virgo (5 Dec 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> Just to add to the previous 3 posts.....clear sky + exercise + sunshine = at least 60mg Citalopram (or whatever your poison is!)
> 
> I've been to the bottom over the last 6 months, I'm now floating back near the top. An even keel would be nice, but Christmas brings its own waves.
> 
> Well done to Virgo for such an honest post. Try to keep happy folks.


Thank you. I find honesty is the best policy.

It's impossible to cycle in Atlantic Canada for at least 4 months of the year so I have switched back to running for about 7 miles twice a week. An hour of that is hugely beneficial to my mood and I can even manage it in many degrees below zero!

Short cold days are not such a problem for me and I enjoy the comfort of dark. Today though, the skies are piercingly blue but the apartment carpark is frozen like a skating rink!


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## trio25 (5 Dec 2009)

Running can be great at this time of year as it takes less time to get a good workout, so easier to pop out at lunch!

Hi cheadle nice to hear from you, hope you'll join us on the track soon.


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## Twenty Inch (9 Dec 2009)

I've gone running in -15 in Russia. That's fun!

Back in work and confirmed the part-time plan, starting January. We're all looking forward to it now. It feels better.

The supplements are helping, no doubt about it. I've slipped back onto the nicotine gum though - don't smoke anymore but I love that gum! 

I'll be ok, I think, and I hope you all will be too.

TI


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## trio25 (9 Dec 2009)

That's great news about work TI. Good they are so supportive!


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## Bandini (9 Dec 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> What do you do when it starts coming down again? I need your help. PM me if you don't want to out yourself here.
> 
> Thoughts gratefully received.
> 
> TI



Remember: 'This too shall pass'

And take delight in the simple things. Being able to get a clean glass of water at any time of the day or night. Making an enjoyable meal. Sitting by a fire with a drink and a book. And of course a great bike ride! 

Whatever floats your boat - but just remember - 'This too shall pass'. 

I don't really suffer now, but I had bouts when I was in my late teens, early twenties. I started living a healthier life style and kept busy. 

This book is kind of humorous, but intriguing when you are down I reckon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prometheus-Rising-Robert-Anton-Wilson/dp/1561840564

"...it is a book about how the human mind works and what you can do to make the most of yours. Readers have been known to get angry, cry, laugh, and even change their entire lives. It has practical techniques to break free of your "reality tunnels".

It helped make my thought processes more positive - but not in a Noel Edmunds kind of a way! And don't be put off by the fact that he can come across as a bit of a freak, and some of what he says should not be taken literallly - he is a self proclaimed guerilla ontologist. At the very worst it will while away a few hours.


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## Twenty Inch (10 Dec 2009)

"This too shall pass" is a great help, Bandini, as well as keeping it in the day. I also pray daily for gratitude and acceptance, and am trying to work harder on the gratitude stuff.

Cheers

TI


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## trio25 (20 Jan 2010)

Hey TI how is going? Part-time at work working for you?


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## RedBike (20 Jan 2010)

Just got put on half time at work, not a happy chappy. 

At least I will get to go out on the bike a little bit more often.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Jan 2010)

for me outdoor exercise (cycling and reffing rugby) along with a sit it out it won't last forever mantra, and just doing stuff to occupy my mind, tongue out of the mouth concentration type stuff, keeps the SAD at under control. Since adopting these strategies it have never again tipped over into full blown depression which it has done twice in the past before I learned how to avoid the worst of it.


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## 661-Pete (26 Jul 2010)

After searching the forum and finding this, and after some thought, I've decided to add to and 'bump' the thread.

Just been started on Citalopram (20mg). Not finding it easy. Don't want to say too much at present.


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## Hacienda71 (26 Jul 2010)

661-Pete said:


> After searching the forum and finding this, and after some thought, I've decided to add to and 'bump' the thread.
> 
> Just been started on Citalopram (20mg). Not finding it easy. Don't want to say too much at present.



I always think it is the loneliest thing to go through but if you deal with it although hard you will come out the other side. Hope things brighten for you soon.


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## Soltydog (26 Jul 2010)

661-Pete said:


> After searching the forum and finding this, and after some thought, I've decided to add to and 'bump' the thread.
> 
> Just been started on Citalopram (20mg). Not finding it easy. Don't want to say too much at present.


When I suffered I was prescribed the same & felt the same, didn't want to talk about it much, but then the more I did talk about it, the better I felt. Hope you are on the way back up soon


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## Nigel-YZ1 (29 Jul 2010)

Pete,

I was on Citalopram for 2.5 years. Apart from several side effects in the first week or so it changed my eyesight, increased my migraine frequency, reduced my emotional range and messed up my concentration.

Apart from that it did some good :-) It remedied the exhaustion.

I started cycling (mountain biking) as my own therapy, and I put most of my recovery down to that.

I've refused medication every since, and educated myself on the signs of depression, and what helps me to get out of the ruts. I can't say I'm clear of it, I've never rectified the underlying cause - but I can say that 90% of the time I'm in the driving seat.

It's a damned long road but you're not alone, there's plenty of us out here. Don't let the world close in around you.

Best wishes.


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## sarahpink (29 Jul 2010)

try and focus on the hear and now> the small things make the difference. medication can be very useful. I have found cycling one of the best therapies for me, that and my siamese cat and having things in my life to look forward too.


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## 661-Pete (31 Jul 2010)

Thanks for the comments. This is something that's been building up for years. There's no single reason, it's a lot of things. I suppose I may be on a hiding to nothing, but if I don't try it....


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## AlanW (2 Aug 2010)

Depression is a terrible, terrible thing.

I watched my poor dad suffer with it for 50 years till his death, and I could never understand what he was going through.....until now.

Sadly my sister took her own life year and she had also suffered in silence for many years, till it came to the point when she felt she had no other to option but to end it all. Its fair to say that it came as a real shock, as no one knew what she was going through. Again, at the time I could not understand why she did it, or even how she could do it.....until now.

When my dad died I went a bit wobbly and was prescribed some drug or other, but I was only on it for a few weeks, then stopped taking them.

For years I have suffered terribly from comfort eating, always have done and always will do I guess?

As it stands at the moment, I feel like I am sinking fast, problems with the job, kids playing up and consistently arguing and fighting. To the point that last week I walked out for a few hours and said at the time that I was moving out.

That's when it all clicked together about my dad and my sister, you cry out for help but no one listens, so you feel like you have no choice but to go to the extreme......there is no other choice, or at least in your head there is no choice.

My choice, or so I thought was to walk away and move out for good. Its fair to add that I love my wife, she is a real star and I would be utterly lost without her. I love both my kids too, and on the whole they are good children and always get glowing school reports, what more could a man want?

After a few tear phone calls from my wife and kids I did return home that night, but things have been awkward (for want of a better word) for a couple of weeks.

I am riding LeJOG in just two weeks time and the plan is to do it in 8 days. While I have been training hard over the last 6 months, the last two weeks have gone to shoot, being quite blunt! My mileage has dropped and I have been stuffing my face like a pratt. 

So guess what's happened?

Yep, I have put on half a stone, no surprises there really is there. So know I am really pissed off about that as well. 

The place called "Depression" is an evil place to be, and having only poked my nose in there once before I really, really don't want to move in full time.

But when your cry's for help go unnoticed, what do you do.


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## longers (2 Aug 2010)

AlanW said:


> But when your cry's for help go unnoticed, what do you do.



If your post is one, then I hope you get some good advice from the wise and knowledgeable people on here. I can only send best wishes for what that's worth. Hopefully the break to do the ride will do you good and you'll be able to rebuild the bonds with your family even stronger.

Are you doing it solo or with friends?


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## ACS (2 Aug 2010)

Having been on citalopram for as long as I can remenber (10 years +) I have decided to come off the medication to see if I can manage. I realised that the side effects where leaving me feeling empty inside, tiredness, no concentration, forgetfull to name but a few. I recently had 2 weeks off the medication when I forgot my take them me. When I started them again I suddenly realised that perhaps I could manage.

One week off and for the first time in eons I am beginning to feel alive again. I commute 2x10 miles each day so I am hoping that the additional serotonin may offset the the loss of the medication. If the experiment does not work than I am going to try St Johns wart and if that does not work I will know that a trip to the doctor will be necessary.


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## Speicher (2 Aug 2010)

In my experience, close family members are not necessarily the right people to ask for help from. They have a "vested" interest in you feeling better, without them having to discuss what the real problems are.

So, for instance, they might suggest, demand even, that you attend someone's birthday party, go out for a meal, take a long walk with them. This might not be what YOU want to do, because you are too tired/do not want to be in a noisy environment/just want to relax in peace and quiet/would prefer to be on your own out on your bicycle. 

My family so much wanted to be able to "solve" my problems, that they could not understand why it was so difficult to follow their advice. 

Also in my experience, it is not just one problem that has made you feel depressed. If there are lots of problems, when you concentrate on solving one, another one gets worse, or something else happens. 

I was offered six weeks counselling with the NHS. This was nowhere near long enough. Fortunately I was able to carry on receiving counselling from the same person on a Private basis. I would say that counselling was, and still is, very helpful. 

You might be surprised how many people on here have or have had depression.


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## longers (2 Aug 2010)

Speicher said:


> You might be surprised how many people on here have or have had depression.


I've often wondered about that as there's been some very good advice and discussions about it on here and wondered if it were down to people with depression being drawn to cycling, forums or none of the above.


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## AlanW (3 Aug 2010)

longers said:


> If your post is one, then I hope you get some good advice from the wise and knowledgeable people on here. I can only send best wishes for what that's worth. Hopefully the break to do the ride will do you good and you'll be able to rebuild the bonds with your family even stronger.
> 
> Are you doing it solo or with friends?



Is this a cry for help, not sure, but I dont think so? But it did help putting finger to key board if I am honest.

There are 14 of us doing LeJOG, so I'm hoping that it will be the token required to get me back on track again, we will have to wait and see?


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## AlanW (3 Aug 2010)

Speicher said:


> In my experience, close family members are not necessarily the right people to ask for help from. They have a "vested" interest in you feeling better, without them having to discuss what the real problems are.
> 
> So, for instance, they might suggest, demand even, that you attend someone's birthday party, go out for a meal, take a long walk with them. This might not be what YOU want to do, because you are too tired/do not want to be in a noisy environment/just want to relax in peace and quiet/would prefer to be on your own out on your bicycle.



But.....on the flip side, I watched my dad be left alone by mum when he went of on one of his down hill trips. At the time they had quite a large house with a huge garden and at the top of the garden was dad's shed. That was his sanctuary, his own domain, that's where dad went to be alone and basically wallow in his own self pity.

He had everything he needed to spend many "happy" hours in there. Mum would take him a cuppa every now and then and never once questioned why or even sat with with him. Was that right do you think?

I am very much the same, I like my own space, probably like my own space to much and the older I get the worse I am getting. 

However, my wife and also the kids try not to let me wallow the same as my dad did, they get me to go out when in truth I don't really want to. And in truth is once I am out, I usually "come round" and snap out of my silly head, which can only be a good thing.

My wife and kids witnessed what happened to my dad by being left alone, and while its annoying at the time, deep down I know that what they are doing, is for the best.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2010)

I'm going nuts now that I can't ride. Talk about bottled up frustration!

Cycling (exercise) obviously has a very big impact on your mood!


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## BrumJim (8 Aug 2010)

Endorphine Cold Turkey, Mr Red Bike.

I'd say no, to letting a depressive have their own space. I found that mood swings were a lot bigger when I lived on my own. And the buzz from a high day can be bad news in the long term - gets you seeking the bad days to get that "good day high". After all, one of the horrible things about depression, is that whilst there may be a good reason that was the trigger, generally you can feel even when there is no good reason to.


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## Mark82 (9 Aug 2010)

i sufferd a lot about a year back still do sometimes, i used to do a lot of hill walking and thats what i did when things got bad, wasnt always a good idea doing hills and peak district, some long drops.... so i use to set myself a route that was tough enough to challenge me ie speed walk, distance walks but something planned instead of just set off and go somewhere, fortunatly since i been riding i been ok, but if and when the time comes i'll go out for a ride on a route that i know well...


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## 661-Pete (11 Aug 2010)

I've just finished the first pack (4 weeks' worth) of ADs. Some changes: certainly the anxiety is down, and most of the side effects gone. Perhaps the drugs are starting to 'kick in'. Whether I'll be back with motivation: not sure yet. Of course this could be a 'placebo' effect - or 'reversion to mean'. Too early to say. Must get more cycling in. And walking.


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## Hacienda71 (11 Aug 2010)

I remember back in the early 90's when I had been prescribed prozac when it was relatively new, reading an article by Mariella Frostrup who was taking it as an appetite supressant, saying that after two months on the drug she weighed the same as when she started but now fell entirely happy with her weight. It summed up the feelings well for me. SSRI type drugs are a great crutch to get you through the worst of it but combine them with other things such as exercise and good diet which are a more gentle natural remedy.


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## Twenty Inch (11 Aug 2010)

I had wondered why I had received some very caring PMs from members (you know who you are, guys, thanks!) and found that this thread had been bumped. Pete, Alan, I hope you're ok. A mixture of exercise, diet, perhaps medication, certainly talking about it with friends has helped me to keep an even keel since November. I've started a new martial art which caters to the agressive, angry side of my character as well as knackering me out and giving me some nice bruises. I've also started doing some more work on the car, which is good therapy too....

It's been difficult. We've been having marriage counselling, and in the course of that it's become clear that some deep, deep issues have been coming to the surface and causing me a lot of grief. I've been able to recognise them and move on, and take steps to prevent them troubling me further. My wife is doing a good job on dealing with my behaviour and letting me know when it's not ok, and I'm doing a good job on being alert to this. My son is a little darling and a lovely chap. I'm still part-time at work but may go back full-time as I just don't think I can do my job in 4 days a week. However I'm ambivalent about this.

There is no once-for-all solution. I'm constantly monitoring my mood, feelings, thoughts, obsessions and negative thinking. It's a bit self-obsessive, but it's working. 

I hope it gets better, guys.

TI


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## martint235 (11 Aug 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> I had wondered why I had received some very caring PMs from members (you know who you are, guys, thanks!) and found that this thread had been bumped. Pete, Alan, I hope you're ok. A mixture of exercise, diet, perhaps medication, certainly talking about it with friends has helped me to keep an even keel since November. I've started a new martial art which caters to the agressive, angry side of my character as well as knackering me out and giving me some nice bruises. I've also started doing some more work on the car, which is good therapy too....
> 
> It's been difficult. We've been having marriage counselling, and in the course of that it's become clear that some deep, deep issues have been coming to the surface and causing me a lot of grief. I've been able to recognise them and move on, and take steps to prevent them troubling me further. My wife is doing a good job on dealing with my behaviour and letting me know when it's not ok, and I'm doing a good job on being alert to this. My son is a little darling and a lovely chap. I'm still part-time at work but may go back full-time as I just don't think I can do my job in 4 days a week. However I'm ambivalent about this.
> 
> ...



Twenty inch, I wish you all the best. I really hope you can work through and cope. I came across this thread by accident and I hope I'm not intruding. I suffer anxiety and panic attacks rather than depression (I accept they are a completely different syndrome).

I've found (and my father and my mother - in law ie two different families) suffer depression, it tends, along with panic attacks to be a "hidden" illness. Hopefully the more of us that come forward with these illnesses wil bring it in to the main conscious.

Again, I'm sorry if I've caused offence by being off topic and including anxiety and panic attacks.

M


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## Fab Foodie (11 Aug 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> It's been difficult. We've been having marriage counselling, and in the course of that it's become clear that some deep, deep issues have been coming to the surface and causing me a lot of grief. I've been able to recognise them and move on, and take steps to prevent them troubling me further. My wife is doing a good job on dealing with my behaviour and letting me know when it's not ok, and I'm doing a good job on being alert to this. My son is a little darling and a lovely chap. I'm still part-time at work but may go back full-time as I just don't think I can do my job in 4 days a week. However I'm ambivalent about this.
> 
> There is no once-for-all solution. I'm constantly monitoring my mood, feelings, thoughts, obsessions and negative thinking. It's a bit self-obsessive, but it's working.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you're on a good path to 'recovery' (whatever that means for the depressive).
Firstly a good wife and family is really essential, Mrs FF deserves better for the patience she has shown me and my moods over the years. But gradually we/I are learning together how to avoid the triggers that cause the downward spirals. Also, working on the deep routed causes is very important. My one regret was that I gave -up areally good therapy at a critical point, however I'd figured enough to tackle some pretty major issues. Ultimately there's a degree of honesty required too. There are some aspects of my personality I cannot change, but I can avoid awakening them and I can remove my self from the stimulus, so by knowing my responses to certain situations ai can manage myself better. It seems like you're managing this too, which is really important.

Good luck with the recovery. It's great that you've found so much support here via PM's etc and people s responses. Cyclist are a pretty good bunch it seems!

Keep your face to the sunshine and you'll never see the shadows.


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## steve30 (13 Aug 2010)

> Ping: fellow depressives



/me waves


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## Blackandblue (19 Aug 2010)

This may just come out as a stream of consciousness, for which apologies.

First, all the best to TI and all the others that are experiencing problems. Bravo for your honesty.

I have read every post on this thread and the ones that have interested me most are those that touch on how others deal with people suffering from depression - particularly family members. 

I was going to post asking how to deal with a partner who is suffering from depression when I came across this thread. 

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent and able to work things out. But I am at a total loss as to how to help my wife. 

She has accepted she has a problem and is on medication. In all fairness to her she accepted this some time ago but was reluctant to go on meds and I agreed believing/hoping that we could get through it together. 

It took the death of our daughter to finally make us both see sense. 

The meds help. But not totally. This week has been awful. We have two young boys and it's school hols. She can hardly pull herself off the sofa. Matters came to a bit of a head yesterday. I offered to help but didn't know how. She was reluctant to acknowledge she needed help. I pointed out a few behavioural abnormalities and she threw a few things back in my face. We made peace. Matters seemed to ease. But I feel there is still a tension. In truth I also feel I may too need help. But am scared to seek it in case I can't then be there for my wife. Even though I don't feel that I am there for her as matters presently stand because I just don't know how to help. 

We miss our daughter. Enormously. She was severely disabled. With a life limiting condition. Nevertheless she went suddenly, which I guess was probably a good thing. 

Comments about seeking out bad days resonate with me. There is a guilt attached to good days. 

I can't really write very much more at the moment.


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## NickM (19 Aug 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> What do you do when it starts coming down again? I need your help. PM me if you don't want to out yourself here.
> 
> Thoughts gratefully received.
> 
> TI



Sorry to hear you've been suffering, TI.

I drink alcohol. Not hugely; just enough. There is nothing more effective, in my experience. But I don't think you do that, do you?

I have found prescription drugs more dishonest than helpful; exercise is the last thing I feel like doing. Talking cures can work for a while, but I'm not interested in learning coping mechanisms for things which should not be as they are. 

In this book, it is suggested that it may be helpful simply to re-label depression as "melancholy", and rather than attempt to sort it out, try instead to engage with it as a part of normal life. If that tactic makes it seem something understandable (given the state of the world), rather than something which comes out of nowhere for no apparent reason, then the approach sounds worth giving a go to me.


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## Hacienda71 (19 Aug 2010)

Blackandblue said:


> This may just come out as a stream of consciousness, for which apologies.
> 
> First, all the best to TI and all the others that are experiencing problems. Bravo for your honesty.
> 
> ...



As a sufferer rather than a relative, a couple of things I have appreciated have been a hug and also someone being there for me and trying to get me to do things even if I said I just wanted to be on my own and vegitate. You may find your wife will not respond to this support while she is suffering but it will help and in time she will thank you. Best of luck


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## BrumJim (19 Aug 2010)

B&B:
With depression there are no short-term fixes. The answer as to how to get her off the sofa is complex, individual, fixed in that moment of time, and impossible to read. Maybe there is a right way at that moment to encourage her, but the chances of getting it wrong are much higher than the right options.

So concentrate on the long term. Find out how to avoid the problem in the first place. Make a plan to improve the situation, by distraction. Find out how she is thinking when she is in a sofa mood. Find out what gives short term lifts, what gives general satisfaction, what needs to be addressed. Kind words can be useless in the wrong situation, but delivered regularly and heartfelt they can help in the long term. Talk, but only when she can - a good day - rather than when the problem surfaces.

So, sorry - I can't give you any advice for today, other than don't concentrate on today - look to what can be done for next week, next month, and next year.


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## Blackandblue (19 Aug 2010)

Thanks, Hacienda71 and BrumJim.


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## jarushby (30 Sep 2010)

AlanW said:


> Silly as it seems, but I get out and ride my bike. I watched my father suffer with depression for over 50 years, his problem was that he had nothing to fall back on, no hobbies as such.
> 
> 
> So with regret I have a family history of depression sufferers. Me included for a few weeks when my dad passed away. But I stopped taking the tablets that the doctor had prescribed and went and did more miles on my bike. Its the best medicine by far and it has no side affects either!




Absolutely right. The difficulty with this is that when you get really low you simply can't push yourself to get on the bike. If possible you need to "catch yourself" when you are coming down and get out on the bike before you "hit the bottom". Alternatively communicate with your partner/friend/anyone when you are not in a dark place that when you are really down they must do anything to get you to either ride your bike/go for a walk etc etc. 

Hardly a fool-proof solution I know but it has helped me on several occasions.


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## courtenay (6 Oct 2010)

Hi all

I was diagnosed with manic derpression approx 10 yrs ago now and prescribed seroxat which apart from weight gain (The main reason i have decided to get back into cycling) has given me very few side effects.

I have found that there are tell tell signs of a down period coming on long before it does ( depending on how self analytical you are ).

Generally first my motivation will slowly begin to slip i've found that catching myself at this point will generally solve things, it normally takes a cpl of weeks of keep pushing myself, but i will generally pull back out of it then. If i dont catch myself at this point i generally tend to continue to slide no matter what i do usually ending in bouts of agoraphobia and sociaphobia.

What works for me may not work for the next person depression is a very personal thing and varies from person to person.

I do find though that avoiding caffiene,sugary substances, alcohol, red meat and dairy when i feel a down period coming on can help a great deal as these things all tend to either give you a high followed by a crash or generally just make your body feel lethargic.

I also tend to find on a day to day basis that lots of fresh salad, fruit and fish in my diet, and keeping my alcohol consumption down to a night out once or twice a month helps considerably.

And it goes without saying if you suffer with depression in any form avoid cannabis use at all costs, you may think at the time its helping, but it infact prolongs and worsens the overall outcome.

Ill shut up driveling now, lol, but i hope this helps.


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## steve30 (8 Oct 2010)

> Generally first my motivation will slowly begin to slip i've found that catching myself at this point will generally solve things, it normally takes a cpl of weeks of keep pushing myself, but i will generally pull back out of it then. If i dont catch myself at this point i generally tend to continue to slide no matter what i do usually ending in bouts of agoraphobia and sociaphobia.



I seem to be a bit like that.

One of my problems is that I have lost interest in a lot of things and have no motivation to do anything.

I started cycling regularly in summer 2009, primarily because I became too old for cheap bus fares. I enjoyed it so started going out more and bought a new bike. Unfortunately though, I often had no motivation to go out and during a few times when my bike needed work doing to it, had hardly any motivation to do it. 

There were a few occasions around this time last year when I was at college on a one day per week course. I would go out on Monday morning, come back on Monday night and not go out again until next Monday. The same occurred sometimes when I was on a 'full time' course a couple of years ago. I would go home on Friday night and not go out again till next Wednesday morning.

But I am definitely fitter than I was a year ago, so that is a good thing .

My interests in electronics and computers have also started to disappear. It took me ages to build a battery charger for my bike lights and that is about all I have done with electronics this year, compared to a couple of years ago when I was building a computer based temperature measurement system. But even when I was doing that at college I still felt crap. But going to college regularly etc gave me some motivation to get on with the project.

To put it simply, I just don't give a toss about anything any more.

But I will probably want to retract the above sentence on a better day.

Fortunately, I have a part time job which is three hours every day and is quite physically active, so that is always worth looking forward to. I am allowed to just get on with the job on my own and do it in my own order etc, so nothing to upset me there. I have felt a bit better since starting that as it has given me something to do. Unfortunately though, sleep issues make it had to plan anything (like going out) round the job. But I manage, just.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (14 Oct 2010)

Just thought I'd keep the thread going with a suggestion.

My depression has been getting very serious over the last few months. Then I made a friend who is good at controlling herself mentally. She's lovely and positive to be around (shame she has a boyfriend though!).

Anyway, what else did she get me into? Golf and Tai Chi.

Golf can be frustrating as hell, but it's a new challenge to throw myself at, with plenty of moving about and fast walking, and when it works right - a massive satisfaction at seeing that ruddy ball fly off like a rocket powered sparrer.

But the Tai Chi is a revelation! The feel good factor is enormous. I really, really recommend trying it. Takes a few sessions to start learning, but now I'm doing 10 minutes every day, with some breathing exercises to follow, and a feel more able to cope with each day. Didn't have to join anything either, this is a £3.50 a week class run in a village hall by LFH Tai Chi.

That's not to say that my problems don't catch back up with me, and I don't end up a tearful mess every couple of days. But it's early days. It's helping me with confidence, with calming myself, and the class is full of people way older than me, so it's like being adopted. It's cheerful and fun.

For me these two things have been a way forward.

Just in case you're a depressive looking for ideas, there's two for you.

Keep up the fight!


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## Evilcat (15 Oct 2010)

Just a quick note in favour of drugs. I'm normally the last person to resort to drug therapy, having had very bad side effects from Paroxetine (Seroxat) a few years back as a result of being diagnosed with depression rather than bipolarity, said Paroxetine sending me into a full blown manic state which was very frightening. 

However, after spending the last 10 years with both ups and downs things got very bad before Xmas last year, ending up with my sitting in a puddle in City Road pretty much unable to walk, talk or think. For the sake of my partner I got a referral to a psychiatrist who diagnosed ultradian type II bipolarity and after a couple of false starts (Depakote/Epilim -- not much fun) ended up on Lamotrigine which has improved matters no end. It's a slightly scary drug (possible fatal side effects initially) but it has done me the world of good: moods evened out and an end to crippling depressive episodes.

So, from someone who previously would take nothing more than the odd Nurofen, I'm now a convert for both getting professional help and for getting the (right) drugs.

EC


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## courtenay (15 Oct 2010)

Two things that have suprised me about this thread is, 1 the honesty with which people have posted and 2. the amount of people that have posted, it gives me great comfort as i hope it does others to know that deppression is much more common a condition then i realised, as a large part of deppresion is feeling very alone in it and that no one would ever understand how it feels, its good to know that other people have the same feelings and your not on your own. 

The last cpouple of weeks has been a bit of a fight for me as im looking at my first Xmas without my wife and children since they where born, as well as being in financial difficulty due to having to move 200 miles from the area i have spent all my life, which will mean i am not likely to be able to go and see them or buy them much in the way of presents and am obviously not looking forward to it.

Once again thank you all for posting and i applaud your honesty and hope all is as well as it can be.


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## pepecat (15 Oct 2010)

*waves* Another one here....

I personally reckon a combination of meds and therapy is the way forward. I rekcon meds get you to the point where you can at least think, or see the wood from the trees. I found meds helped me take a step back, in a sense, so that I could then cope with therapy - trying to think vaguely sensibly about things rather than just doing the 'everything's crap, why bother?' thing. 
I guess meds on their own would (and do) help, but they only deal with the 'symptoms'; they don't get to the 'root' of the issue - the reasons WHY we react /act/ think in certain ways when certain things happen. I figure that's what therapy is for - it gets at the root of stuff and helps us learn why we do / think things the way we do and helps us work out different ways of doing things in the future.


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## Hacienda71 (15 Oct 2010)

pepecat said:


> *waves* Another one here....
> 
> I personally reckon a combination of meds and therapy is the way forward. I rekcon meds get you to the point where you can at least think, or see the wood from the trees. I found meds helped me take a step back, in a sense, so that I could then cope with therapy - trying to think vaguely sensibly about things rather than just doing the 'everything's crap, why bother?' thing.
> I guess meds on their own would (and do) help, but they only deal with the 'symptoms'; they don't get to the 'root' of the issue - the reasons WHY we react /act/ think in certain ways when certain things happen. I figure that's what therapy is for - it gets at the root of stuff and helps us learn why we do / think things the way we do and helps us work out different ways of doing things in the future.



I have a similar view meds are the metaphoric crutch but are not the cure. They help but are not the answer in themselves.


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## Evilcat (16 Oct 2010)

Hacienda71 said:


> I have a similar view meds are the metaphoric crutch but are not the cure. They help but are not the answer in themselves.


Both psychotherapy and drug therapy are clearly of benefit to those with mood disorders. However, researchers do hypothesize a physical cause to serious mood disorders, and meta analyses have found different neurological characteristics in sufferers, so drugs should not be seen as merely a "crutch", rather as a proper treatment. YMMV -- my experiences of therapy have been poor, but getting the right drug help has improved my life no end.

EC


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Oct 2010)

I've always managed to avoid taking any drugs. That's been difficult at times but it's worked for me. I've been through therapy of indifferent, incompetent and, finally, excellent kinds. I have learned to manage the major shifts not by worrying about when the downswings will happen but by paying attention and realizing when I am getting 'too happy' (careless, manic etc.) and just shaving the edges off this through exercise and meditation. I now find that I do not fall into such deeper holes, although the highs and lows are also things that are just part of who I am and he way I work - and I certainly would not want to lose the inspiration and creativity that (for me) comes with this condition, whatever you decide to call it.


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## 661-Pete (25 Jan 2011)

Been very down these past few weeks.
Maybe the ADs simply don't work, I've been on them six months now. No improvement on depression. Maybe they have tackled some of the anxiety and semi-panic attacks. There have been side effects.

I cannot point to a single cause. One was a bad Xmas in which there was a row with a family member. My sister, as it happens (we have made it up amicably). The very fact that I 'lost it' makes me feel really mean and unpleasant.

Then there was me 'losing it' once again, on this very forum in fact. Same effect on me. But that's public domain.

And, in the last few days, internet abuse, which I really feel is unjustified. From the domain of another forum which I can't name and can't reply to. Why do people do this? 

I'm considering counselling now. Expensive but hell what's money for? If I have to cut back on other things wtf? Present a case of anger management, depression, anxiety, wtf? Let the counsellor decide what to do with me. Nail me in a wooden box, that'd be best...


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## Hacienda71 (25 Jan 2011)

Sorry to hear that, try to be positive. Little comfort I know, but it is a tunnel and you *will *come out the other side. Good Luck.


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## szygy (26 Jan 2011)

Hi Pete,

being horrible to your friends and loved ones is classic depressive behaviour. Firstly dont blame yourself for behaviour due to depression. Depression tricks you into interpreting all your symptoms into moral or personal faults.
I have sufferred from depressive episodes ranging from moderate to very serious, and when you are in there, it is hard to remember the good times. Things I have found help are: being surrounded by nature (and away from people), eating lots of herring or mackrel, and cycling HARD. 
Also I have noticed my depressions are normally preceeded by a period where I reduce my food intake gradually. 
If you are using AD's you need to find the right one (IF they work). I tried the SSRI's and others of the newer kind, but these were awful and had no positive anti-depressive action. Eventually I found that low doses of Imipramine has a definite positive effect. Problem is the most quacks will want to give you a much higher dose than I got (10mg), and with much worse consequences. I have only found it necessary to take meds on a few occasions and then only for a few weeks at most, and I personally would not want to take them over long periods. 
Given the prevalence of anxiety in your symptoms, could you be suffering from stress also?


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## 661-Pete (26 Jan 2011)

Thanks Hacienda, and thanks Szygy, for your input. I have read it carefully. And thanks also G. for your PM if you're reading this (I shall answer it when I can).

TBH it's the third thing I mentioned, above, which really bothers me. Because it's in part down to others. Bullies and cowards. All I ask is that _I be given space_ so that I can tackle my own stuff! Is that too much to ask?


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## steve30 (26 Jan 2011)

661-Pete said:


> I'm considering counselling now.  Expensive but hell what's money for?  If I have to cut back on other things wtf?  Present a case of anger management, depression, anxiety, wtf?  Let the counsellor decide what to do with me.  Nail me in a wooden box, that'd be best...



I went to my new GP the other week regarding anxiety/depression. She referred me for counceling, so I will see how that goes.


Good luck .


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## Norm (26 Jan 2011)

I would recommend it to anyone who even thinks they may need it. And, whatever else, tell the truth to the counsellor. 

They won't be worried about what you say, they won't judge you, they do regularly see much worse but please, unless you tell the truth, they cannot help you.

Oh, another thing, don't take prejudices into the room. If someone had told me before I went that I'd be doing self-hypnosis after only the second session, I'd have laughed at them. But I was and it was (and still is) most excellent.


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## the snail (26 Jan 2011)

Hi Pete, sorry to hear you've been down. It might be worth asking your doctor about changing your medication - I think ADs are a bit hit or miss with effectiveness/side effects. My gp surgery offers counseling too, although I wasn't that impressed with the counselor. I don't know if you've tried voluntary organisations, but I've had support from Mind, with drop-in group - I can turn up and have a chat with a counselor if I need it, and I think they offer cheap course of counseling too. I also went on a free course with the local nhs, which I found useful - they went through a lot of the common negative thinking that are a feature of depression and I now find it easier to recognise when I am talking myself into depressive downward spiral. Getting out on the bike and enjoying the countryside usually lifts my mood - living in the moment as they say. Look after yourself - because your worth it!


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## Norm (26 Jan 2011)

661-Pete said:


> TBH it's the third thing I mentioned, above, which really bothers me. Because it's in part down to others. Bullies and cowards. All I ask is that _I be given space_ so that I can tackle my own stuff! Is that too much to ask?


 Pete

Sorry if this comes across as being blunt - it's how I prefer people to treat me when I'm affected by it so I tend to pass it on.

You need to create your own space. Internet bullies are cowards but they don't control life, they don't even control the internet. You have control over what you do and where you go, it's your destiny, not someone else's. You don't need anyone's permission to control where and when you visit sites. The ultimate control is to keep away from it but you can do little things like avoiding certain sites, changing usernames, deleting email addresses. 

Don't ask for permission, it's yours to take.

Another thought is that it's ok not to be all right all of the time. You don't need to feel good every day of the year, you just need to remember when you're feeling bad that you will feel good again. Maybe you can't see how you'll get there but that's not important, what matters is that you *will* get there.

Most important of all, though, ironically, is to seek real help from professionals, not from anonymous names on a computer screen. As szygy said in his most excellent post, depression tricks you into misreading signs. If you have got to the point where you think you should speak to someone, you should almost certainly have already started speaking to someone.


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## Fab Foodie (26 Jan 2011)

Pete
Sorry to hear you're down, but looks like there's a lot of good experience being proffered and hope some of it helps on the road to recovery.

In my own case, the Meds really helped and brought me the mental 'time and peace' I needed to start to turn things around. I also found councelling really good and my only regret was that I cut it short. szygy speaks sense about what the Black-Dog makes you do. I found the meds stopped that and the councelling helped me understand what triggered my moods so that I might better control them. I think managing the triggers is very important, some need avoiding, some need staring in the face and seeing them for what they really are.... usually less than you imagine. If there are issues on-line that bring you down, then find a way around that. Engaging with people that hurt is not essential, especially in cyberspace.

Take it a day at a time, don't be over-ambitious, make a series of small steps towards a better day and be prepared to try different ideas for recovery until you find what works. But, most of all, be good to yourself.


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## ttcycle (26 Jan 2011)

Another one here! There's been some great words and some real honesty on this forum and it's fantastic to see.

Going through a bit of a bleak time at the moment too but taking it one day at a time myself too.

One thing to remember is that we're all different and to celebrate that. We all respond differently to counselling, medicines and are also more receptive to these at different times of our lives.

There is hope and when you're depressed and it feels like you can't shift out of bed, your head has stopped working and the black fuzz hangs over you it's important to try and remember that you have the strength to change that way of feeling and to make some positive shifts or if needed go with it until you come out of it.

I've got a tendency to post overly long posts so I won't here (also self protection as such fragile mind times in honesty); however, I will finish by saying my ups and my downs have been my unique way of looking at the world- it's tied into how I am creatively, can be a powerful point for expression in a positive way and is the essence of life itself and is integral to the way I work and live. I wouldn't have the highs and the smiles of looking at something amazing if I also didn't have the melancholic moments. Here's to both and making it through those darker moments.


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## szygy (27 Jan 2011)

Pete, 
I am glad if anything I have said can be of assistance, and dont let internet bullies into your thoughts. Those people are sad and pitiable individuals: remember the guy in the states who encouraged someone into suicide? Just feel sorry for them, it much better to be depressed than a horrible person. You will recover, they will slowly rot from the inside. It does sound like you need space away from people, can't you get away to some forest or isolated place sometime? I find that a few hours away from people is profoundly healing in terms of giving perspective. 
Also, I really recommend eating a lot of oily fish (mackrel, herring or sardines). The rise in depression over the last 100 years has closely followed the decline in fish eating. It really helps with me.


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## 661-Pete (27 Jan 2011)

szygy said:


> Pete,
> I am glad if anything I have said can be of assistance, and dont let internet bullies into your thoughts. Those people are sad and pitiable individuals: remember the guy in the states who encouraged someone into suicide? Just feel sorry for them, it much better to be depressed than a horrible person. You will recover, they will slowly rot from the inside. It does sound like you need space away from people, can't you get away to some forest or isolated place sometime? I find that a few hours away from people is profoundly healing in terms of giving perspective.
> Also, I really recommend eating a lot of oily fish (mackrel, herring or sardines). The rise in depression over the last 100 years has closely followed the decline in fish eating. It really helps with me.


That's OK, Szygy, just say it's been helpful.

Regarding the 'bully', well there's a hell of a lot more to the story than you might think! Something I really can't be open about, not here! It's about people I know; whom _some of you know_. I've been into forums now, these past six years and more. I know about flaming and trolling. I think that can be handled. This was worse. Mind-bogglingly worse. The 'evidence' was there for anyone to chance upon, until a day or two ago, when it was deleted.

There. I may have said too much, but I'm trying to get 'closure'. Saying 'too much' helps in that.

I'm not convinced about this aspect of oily fish, sorry, though I eat plenty, for health and other reasons (I like it). Herrings and sprats are one of my favourites, when they're fresh!


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## pepecat (27 Jan 2011)

Hi Pete

It's definitely worth checking out with your gp to see if they can refer you for any sort of counselling. Better than paying for it! The only thing is, with the NHS there are usually waiting lists, it could take anything up to 6 months before the counselling starts (and sometimes longer...)
If you chose to go 'private' and pay, you can generally start pretty quickly - within a week or two. It's worth looking at the BACP website (British association of counselling and psychotherapy). All the therapists on there have got a recognised professional qualification (I tihnk they have to have, to be a member of the site) so you know you're not getting some quack who thinks they know what they're doing when in fact they don't.
The site also has explanations of the various types of therapies out there - CBT, Person centered, Psychotherapy, Gestalt, Counselling, etc etc..... also good to have a look at as you might find one type of therapy would suit you better than others. I knew I didn't want CBT, so using the search filter things they have, found a therapist who did person centered stuff which suited me much better.
Good luck!


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## szygy (29 Jan 2011)

Mmmmm herring. There can't be a better reason for eating it than the taste. 

Regarding counselling, the NHS only seem to offer group co-counselling round here (sounds like a highly effective way of saving money), and sitting in a room full of people is bad enough, let alone if everyone is depressed. So I didn't take that option. 

Pete, is there anyone you know who has suffered depression, to whom you talk? It is such a common malady I would think most folk must have a friend who have had the black dog to stay.


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## 661-Pete (31 Jan 2011)

szygy said:


> Mmmmm herring. There can't be a better reason for eating it than the taste.
> 
> Regarding counselling, the NHS only seem to offer group co-counselling round here (sounds like a highly effective way of saving money), and sitting in a room full of people is bad enough, let alone if everyone is depressed. So I didn't take that option.
> 
> Pete, is there anyone you know who has suffered depression, to whom you talk? It is such a common malady I would think most folk must have a friend who have had the black dog to stay.



Sprats!  We had fresh sprats for dinner on Saturday, lovely!, one of my favourite fish, excellent flavour. Preparing them can be a bit fiddly, we prefer to gut them, one by one, but the end result is worth the time! Just coat them in seasoned flour and deep-fry. Serve with a squeeze of lemon. Alas! I'm currently afflicted with a heavy chesty cough, eating the sprats brought on a severe coughing fit and I couldn't finish my plateful. But there was nothing wrong with the fish! Next time?!

I'm more or less settled on the one-to-one counselling, will be seeing the GP on Thursday, and unless he gives me the no-no for any reason, will look around for a suitable counsellor. I have a list of local BACP-registered from which I've picked one or two probables. Will have to go private, I can't wait for the NHS even if I qualify!

Yes, I have done so, talking to other depression sufferers can be some comfort, but in itself it doesn't cure the problem. There is no cure for depression! There are plenty of ways in which one's depression can be made worse, though.
Said enough I think.


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## Fab Foodie (31 Jan 2011)

Omega 3 tabs are worth taking, look for the ones with the most DHA and EPA for your buck. There's no danger of OD'ing on fish oils!


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## Norm (31 Jan 2011)

I have derived considerable help and comfort from books, both books by depressed people (Spike Milligan being am obvious choice) and by those who deal with the depressed professionally, such as Dr Anthony Clare.

It was a shock to be diagnosed with depression, as I didn't see myself as that "type" and I got comfort both that I wasn't the only one and that there was no such thing as a "type" from books.

As for professionals, I got most help from a psychiatric social worker, or psw. Although it obviously depends on the individual and I'm not even sure such things as psw's still exist.


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## Lisa21 (3 Feb 2011)

Possibly trying all sorts of different options is good, as what helps one person may not be of much use to another.
Personally im not sure I could do the talking to someone bit, not someone whom I didnt know anyway,but others may find it their best help.( although I did find talking to my horse helped a lot, plus he didnt interrupt, he just drooled carrot juice all over me  ) 
I have found that lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, and fish, cutting out all the cr@p from my diet, no alchohol, and passionflower tincture seem to help if I keep this up for a few weeks and get out on my bike as much as is humanly possible. However, I might have to rethink all of the above as i need to go back to my vets docs due to a recent setback and he may suggest something else...


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## 661-Pete (23 Feb 2011)

Just an update - had my first session with the shrink psychotherapist/counsellor, yesterday. Think there is some prospect of making something positive there, anyway have fixed up another appointment. 

She wasn't at all sure about how much of it was D, but assured me there was Anxiety there and also Anger. And I seemed to have 'lost my purpose' or something like that. She noted something in the way I was breathing, apparently I'm to be set some breathing exercises! We didn't go too deeply into my personal life, but I spoke of things that have caused anxiety and loss of motivation over the years.

We touched on anger, and I showed her the stuff - off of another place - which I mentioned earlier. She said she gets a lot of this, it's a major part of her workload, bullying on FB and the like. The internet age!  I said I want to handle *my own* reactions better. Anyway I'm supposed to do a private write-up, a sort of testimonial, saying my thoughts about all the stuff and how I'd _like_ it to turn out. Which isn't how it will or ought to turn out of course.


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## Angelfishsolo (23 Feb 2011)

Your story could be my story.

When I am on my bike the world is a great place. Even the knowledge that I can ride my bike helps. When "it comes down" I remove myself from the world for a while. It works for me.



mad al said:


> Nice to see these replies folks. I have to take anti-depressants (high dosage) and find it quite easy to talk about it, not only on line but face to face for those who need to know.
> 
> I think, as already said, you have to come to terms with it and to even admit to yourself that there is a problem is a *huge* challenge for most folk. I was so blind to the fact that I had a problem until one day when I had blown up again!!!! I gave myself a choice, loose everything I had, loved, cherished and up until that very point in time, lived for, or do something about it.
> 
> ...


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## 661-Pete (16 Mar 2011)

Another update, another thread 'bump'...

Had three sessions with the shrink now. Will probably wrap it up with a fourth, mid-April, then call it a day. After all, it costs a bomb! Whether these sessions in themselves are taking me anywhere, I don't know - I kind of wonder, I look at her approach, her mannerisms, I get to thinking I can do it on my own... Hope this doesn't come across as rude.

Have I achieved something? I'm finding I'm able to work more steadily at my - well, work - without lapsing into a sort of mental torpor after only a few tens of minutes. That must count for something.

Going to France end of next week, I shall know things are looking up a bit if I manage to set up the telescope and _use it_. Not having had the motivation to do that, has _hurt_.

As for the anger thingy, yes we talked a fair bit about that. I'm to try two different approaches towards easing off the stuff going around in my head, but I'm not supposed to go public on exactly what, not for now. But this stuff is easing off of its own accord, anyway. Time is the healer. I've even edited a post I made earlier in this thread, the angry stuff I put down then, is not what's in my mind to say, _now_. We shall see.

I know I've had to be particularly vague in this post, but if anyone can glean anything of use to them from it, well and good. All I can say is, the 'D' is less than it was...


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## Dayvo (21 Mar 2011)

661-Pete said:


> Another update, another thread 'bump'...
> 
> All I can say is, the 'D' is less than it was...




Glad to hear that things are slowly working for you, Pete! 

It is a long road, but you'll reach the summit sooner, rather than later. 

Good luck and start posting some of your fantastic space images again.


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## ttcycle (21 Mar 2011)

Pete- missed these threads- I'm glad to hear that there have been some shifts for you and I hope that this is the start of something positive for you. 

As for me - struggling quite a lot at the moment - can feel up and down but for me I hope and deep down know that it won't be like this forever this might not be visible to me during the darkest or most anxious days but it's there.


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## Vikeonabike (24 Mar 2011)

661-Pete said:


> After searching the forum and finding this, and after some thought, I've decided to add to and 'bump' the thread.
> 
> Just been started on Citalopram (20mg). Not finding it easy. Don't want to say too much at present.




Just got back from the docs with my prescription for Citaolopram.....

The last few weeks have been a bit of a nightmare as I have finally admitted to myself that I have a problem....
Low Self esteem, low Self Confidence, lack of energy/ interest in anything.. and a few other things thrown in....(Which is a bit rich from someone who thought low self confidence meant thinkng somebody else was as good as me). Any way the doc has diagnosed depression...which is what Mrs Vike said too. 
My first thought was ....don't be sodding stupid..what have I got to be depressed about...I have a good job (which I love doing), a great family, no major money worries and a roof over my head..It would appear, simplifying things that my brain is jst wired up wrong...Oh great I'm a menalist! This just gets better and better. So how am I going to cope, probably by talking too friends...taking the mickey out of myself and a bit of PMA....oh yeah and pills, don't like that idea but hey (they're supposedly not addictive), in for a penny in for a pound...
I've read what people say about diet so I'll look into that as well...
Wonder if Mrs Vike will be gullible enough to give me £1000 to spend on anew bike because that will obvioulsly help!

Anyway...early days for me...fingers crossed things get better, not worse for all of us.
Vike


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## Norm (24 Mar 2011)

Vikeonabike said:


> My first thought was ....don't be sodding stupid..what have I got to be depressed about...


IMO, the single worst thing about helping non-sufferers to understand depression is that depression does not mean being depressed.

Being depressed is, for me, a short term feeling brought about from opening the post, listening to the news, waking up on Monday morning etc. 

Depression is a long term mental health issue.

There is no equivalence, one does not lead to the other in either direction in that non-depressed people can get pissed off and depressed people can make great company for an evening.

There are as many causes of depression as there are sufferers and many of those sufferers just have a chemical imbalance which drugs can help resolve.


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## pubrunner (24 Mar 2011)

661-Pete said:


> Time is the healer.



Hi Pete,

Interesting reading; I think that to some degree, many people within & without this forum will be able to 'relate' to your postings . . . . . . . if they're honest about it !

I was surprised to read this :



Norm said:


> It was a shock to be diagnosed with depression, *as I didn't see myself as that "type"* and I got comfort both that I wasn't the only one and that *there was no such thing as a "type" from books*.



From what I've read on this forum, I consider Norm to be a highly intelligent fellow; his postings are always witty, pertinent and relevant. Furthermore, he rarely (if ever) seems to offend others - quite a skill, that ! 

I don't see Norm as that *'type'* either; but as Norm goes on to mention, there is no such thing as a 'type'. 

In my opinion, you've already made a positive step, merely by voicing (and sharing) your feelings on this (public) forum.

*Please be aware that you have considerable 'support' on this forum; furthermore*, *many of us like to read your postings - you are appreciated !!

*Please read the previous sentence again . . . . . . . and then one more time.

Don't 'over-analyse' things - a common 'mistake' in my view.

Over the years, I have met people from all walks of life - only natural in a pub. I've been insulted, physically attacked, abused & ignored. I've had people try to 'con' me, steal from me and tell lies about me. In the distant past, I used to (partially) blame myself for the way that others treated me; an attempt, if you will, to 'excuse' their behaviour. I used to frequently consider how various scenarios might have finished, if *I'd* followed an alternative course of action.

I *wasted* a lot of time and energy, on 'over-analysing' things, when I should have been focussing on positive experiences.

In the early days, we used to get some appalling snobs in the pub; because of my (relative) youth, inexperience and lack of confidence, I was uncertain of how to deal with such patronising & bullying behaviour. I was too anxious to please the customers. 

Many years on, I know how to deal with customers. I know that a Landlord is 'there to be shot at' but that does not excuse rude & unpleasant behaviour. I now focus on the many happy customers and what we have achieved.

Just as in a pub, I know that there are a few on this forum who will 'bully' if given a chance; I know that they couldn't run a pub anything like as well as I do - however 'clever' they are. I've learned to focus on the positives and (largely) ignore the negatives. Yes, I do lack confidence regarding issues of a 'practical' nature - such as fixing my bike - but only 'cos I usually end up breaking something.  

Take pride in what you know and can do well, you possibly take certain things for granted . . . . . . . 



Dayvo said:


> start posting some of your fantastic space images again.



I wasn't aware that you own a telescope, frankly, I'm not even certain I could find the North Star. 

I'll end by saying "Don't be hard on yourself" - give yourself a bit of leeway. 

Oh yes, drink ain't the answer . . . . . . . especially if you ain't buying in my pub !


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## Fletch456 (24 Mar 2011)

661-Pete said:


> We touched on anger, and I showed her the stuff - off of another place - which I mentioned earlier. She said she gets a lot of this, it's a major part of her workload, bullying on FB and the like. The internet age!  I said I want to handle *my own* reactions better. Anyway I'm supposed to do a private write-up, a sort of testimonial, saying my thoughts about all the stuff and how I'd _like_ it to turn out. Which isn't how it will or ought to turn out of course.




Did they mention CBT? Wanting to change your own reactions better is right up the CBT street. Apologies if telling you something you know - it's commonly used amongst therapists in dealing with depression and is recognised for delivering results quickly - in the short to medium term. Longer term requires other things. 

Two books on it I recommend are Brilliant Cognitive Behavioural Therapy by Dr Stephen Briers and Mind Over Mood: Change How You Feel By Changing the Way You Think by Christine Padesky and Dennis Greenberger. The former is presented well with useful exercises and the latter is commonly recommended by therapists - if you are taught CBT by a therapist you may well be recommended this one. Both are on Amazon. 

Courtesy of BUPA I had the privilege of £20k worth of therapy - though a lot of that cost is because I was an in-patient at one of the Priory hospitals - so feel I can speak with some authority. My therapist and shrink - both of whom I no longer see - kindly halved their fees when the BUPA money ran out. I also read reasonably widely and though it wasn't the deepest of depressions I've certainly recovered well.

Two other books worth looking at for different reasons are: *Depressive illness-curse of the strong* Dr Tim Cantopher - also includes useful section for family and friends; *The Depression Cure: The Six-Step Programme to Beat Depression Without Drugs* by Dr Steve Ilardi.

A review of the second of those is here - http://www.guardian....n-without-drugs. He is an American clinical psychologist and I agree with his thinking, like his logic. Like someone else mentioned in this topic - Omega 3 oils - he tells you about the molecular length and good reasons for taking what sound like large doses. The only place I have found stocking them to get what he says you need is Zipvit. I also like his style - he is easy to read - and common sense - some of the things that can make a difference for example are an active social life; 8 hours sleep; 45 mins exercise a week. I didn't expect just 6 things that he recommends to last a whole book but they do without feeling boring and monotonous.

Perhaps most importantly you're concentration probably isn't what it could be right now so if you feel inclined to read something great - don't feel you have to read a whole book if any of those I've suggested. Do what you feel is comfortable, what you feel is doable without causing any strain. Recovering from depression is analogous to going to the gym after an injury - you would be very careful to not over do it, taking small steps as you wouldn't want to do any harm and progress slowly but surely. So it is with depression - take it very easy - baby steps. It is very important to be patient with oneself.

Someone in this topic said that depression cannot be cured - that is wrong. There is no magic pill, no silver bullet and much of the cure is up to you - you have to put the work in - but it is very curable and at least two psychiatrists I know of (I don't know any others - thankfully) would also tell you it can certainly be got rid of.


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## Fletch456 (24 Mar 2011)

Norm said:


> IMO, the single worst thing about helping non-sufferers to understand depression is that depression does not mean being depressed.
> 
> Being depressed is, for me, a short term feeling brought about from opening the post, listening to the news, waking up on Monday morning etc.
> 
> ...




Well said and worth saying. (though after long comment I just put on I feel I am at risk of sounding like I may come across as being on a rant like soap box and boorish)..anyway..well said I thought.


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## Fletch456 (24 Mar 2011)

661-Pete said:


> Have I achieved something? I'm finding I'm able to work more steadily at my - well, work - without lapsing into a sort of mental torpor after only a few tens of minutes. That must count for something.
> 
> As for the anger thingy, yes we talked a fair bit about that. I'm to try two different approaches towards easing off the stuff going around in my head, but I'm not supposed to go public on exactly what, not for now. But this stuff is easing off of its own accord, anyway. Time is the healer. I've even edited a post I made earlier in this thread, the angry stuff I put down then, is not what's in my mind to say, _now_. We shall see.



Just read the later post Pete - I think I read an earlier one that I replied to. Anyway, you've definitely achieved something. It sounds like your counsellor is of the semi interactive type - I don't know how to better categorise them - and the more interactive the better I found; otherwise you wonder if it's worth spending your money. 

Re stuff round your head have you tried yoga or meditation? Meditation helps a lot..even just a simple breathing exercise. If you want to pm me I'll happily sent you a copy of a CD that's got a really good meditation exercise on it; otherwise there are some you can find on youtube.


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## The Jogger (5 Apr 2011)

How can you tell the difference from being thoroughly pissed off and depressed? I'm certainly a bit pissed off lately.


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## Fletch456 (5 Apr 2011)

Depressed and pissed off are similar and both are quite different from depression. Having depression is a long term illness where you have amongst other things very little energy.

As the words sound and look virtually identical people take them to mean the same but they certainly don't.


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## Norm (5 Apr 2011)

The Jogger said:


> How can you tell the difference from being thoroughly pissed off and depressed? I'm certainly a bit pissed off lately.


Sorry for quoting myself but...



Norm said:


> *IMO, the single worst thing about helping non-sufferers to understand depression is that depression does not mean being depressed.*
> 
> Being depressed is, for me, a short term feeling brought about from opening the post, listening to the news, waking up on Monday morning etc.
> 
> ...


Being thoroughly pissed off is probably a sign that you're not suffering from depression. I usually find depression is accompanied with apathy, a lack of emotion, a lack of awareness of what's going on around and not really caring that much if something does get through to you. 

That said, of course, it's a very personal illness and everyone can be affected differently.


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## The Jogger (5 Apr 2011)

Fletch456 said:


> Depressed and pissed off are similar and both are quite different from depression. Having depression is a long term illness where you have amongst other things very little energy.
> 
> As the words sound and look virtually identical people take them to mean the same but they certainly don't.




Well I've been pissed off and knackered lately, I'll see if it passes after a few weeks. Thanks for the reply Fletch


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## pepecat (5 Apr 2011)

Generally (and this is according to ye olde medical websites) symptoms of depression should have lasted for at least two weeks (every day) for it to be classed as depression.
Symptoms include:
Sleeping too much or not enough (early waking is a classic sign of depression)
Loss of appetite and/or weight (but there can be an increase)
Difficulty concentrating
Difficulty remembering things (short term stuff). When i was ill i once went to the supermarket repeating the four things i needed to buy, and came out 5 mins later with only three of them cos i'd completely forgotten the fourth....
Tearfulness
Feeling guilty
Feeling lethargic / apathetic / hopeless / worthless
Thoughts of self harm or suicide
Trouble making decisions
Irritation at others

There are others...see: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Symptoms.aspx for more.....

If some / all apply and have been going on for more than two weeks, i would gently suggest it might be wise to get thee to a physician....


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## Fletch456 (5 Apr 2011)

The Jogger said:


> Well I've been pissed off and knackered lately, I'll see if it passes after a few weeks. Thanks for the reply Fletch



My tip would be watch you sleep...get good rest. For me it can literally make me ill with depression. I don't value my rest enough.


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## Dayvo (5 Apr 2011)

The Jogger said:


> Well I've been pissed off and knackered lately, I'll see if it passes after a few weeks. Thanks for the reply Fletch




Could be that you suffer from SAD (winter blues). 

Symptoms are apathy, tiredness, over-eating (and weight-gain) etc. I've had it since my teens, but it soon goes with the arrival of spring and warm sunny weather.


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## The Jogger (5 Apr 2011)

Gosh that was quick, thanks all, I do seem to have a few of the symptoms described, the sleep thing especially. I often wake up at 2 or 3 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then wake up at 6 and find it hard to get up. I use to be a big drinker but packed that up over 20yrs ago, don't know if this could have an effect. Anyway, I'll certainly keep an eye on it.


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## Fletch456 (5 Apr 2011)

The Jogger said:


> Gosh that was quick, thanks all, I do seem to have a few of the symptoms described, the sleep thing especially. I often wake up at 2 or 3 and find it hard to get back to sleep, then wake up at 6 and find it hard to get up. I use to be a big drinker but packed that up over 20yrs ago, don't know if this could have an effect. Anyway, I'll certainly keep an eye on it.



Lots of things can help or hinder sleep. One recommended to me and I use regularly to help me get off to sleep is the radio - usually radio 4 - farily easy sounding voices. With it set to go off 20 mins later. With waking up in the middle of the night - therapists advise one or two things and one is treat that time as if it is the day. Go and do whatever - treat it like its day time - a house hold chore or two can be good here - physically tiring whilst not being brain demanding - then when you begin to feel sleepy only then head back to bed. Being short of sleep for one or two nights is one and a manageable thing - several can be a very different matter.  - Don't focus on being asleep. Don't worry about being awake. If lying in bed, relax. - And if you can't get to sleep lying there can be restful and I find it helps me and you often drift off for a little sleep - it may not feel like a lot but it will help.


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## coffeejo (5 Apr 2011)

Cycling has really helped me start to manage how I feel - and insomnia seems to be both a cause and a consequence of depression, for me anyway. 

What Feltch456 said about managing not sleeping rings true for me. I either get up and Do Something or watch a DVD. I find I go to sleep more easily if it's a David Attenborough programme, but my Lovefilm subscription has proved its weight in gold for the nights when sleep won't come, no matter what I do.


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## The Jogger (5 Apr 2011)

I have no problem getting to sleep, 10 mins on the HTC and CC then my eyes are closing but then I wake up thinking I;ve had a nights sleep, look at the clock and it's 2 am or so.


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## coffeejo (5 Apr 2011)

I sometimes have that as well. Asleep by 10/11, awake at 1, listen to the dawn chorus, watch the sun come up and then unconscious for about half an hour before the alarm goes off. 

When it happens, I get up, have a wee and get a drink of water (to cover all bases) and then as my above post.

Doctors are funny about sleep / lack of but it is worth making an appointment, just to rule stuff out. And be honest with yourself about why you might be feeling pissed off. Sometimes, facing up to the issue can be enough to let you relax.


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## pepecat (6 Apr 2011)

Its common with me, and usually a sign that the mood is slipping.... i wake up at about 2 or 3 am, can't get back to sleep, have to get up and watch tv, back to bed about 4.30 - 5 ish. Usually takes about an hour and half to two hours before i'm ready for sleeping again. And then, ironically, I sleep like a log until the alarm goes off, and then i'm knackered!


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## neil earley (6 Apr 2011)

also prescibed citroplan as a anti depressant it does help , dont isolate yourself family and friends can help you through , arrange counselling through your GP it helped me a lot


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## 661-Pete (6 Apr 2011)

Hello I just got back from almost two weeks holiday (off internet), see there's a lot of posts on this thread I need to catch up with, some of them directed at me. Thanks guys: will read properly in due course.

So: did the holiday help? Well I didn't go doolally (as I did on a previous hol. last year), if that's anything. And I was quite happy to be disconnected with you lot (not trying to be rude, but, you know.... ). I shan't really know until I get back to work tomorrow and see if I *can* do my work. Which may depend on what's in my inbox of course (I can receive work E-mails at home, but I wisely left the only laptop that can access them, on my desk at work.... ).

So: was the holiday a good one? Well, not really, it was pretty lousy. Weather was pretty cr@p, all but the last two days. I only got the 'scope out once. And I somehow contrived to fall off my bike, just outside the house as I was setting off - _don't ask!_  . That hurt a lot - pulled a muscle in the leg or something, but it's easing off now, I have been on the bike since and AOK. And worst of all, last Friday we heard of the passing of a very dear relative of mine. Someone I've known since I was a small child. So we get back to UK and the first thing I have to do is brush off my best suit and get ready for a funeral.

_So did this holiday get me down?_ In a word: no, I don't think so. These are not depression-making things. Bad weather hits everyone alike, you don't feel singled out. And death: well death will come to us all, we all have to know death and I certainly think I do - all too often at my age. Grief and depression are different things.

Anyway that's all I'll say for now.


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## Fletch456 (7 Apr 2011)

For those earlier in this thread generally talking about depression and do they have the symptoms - and anyone else.

From a reputable source - mental health charity Rethink, who I am connected to on facebook.

What is depression and links to other things which those suffering often find it useful to find out about - such as antidepressants and different therapies..... Link


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## steve30 (8 Apr 2011)

I'm still on the waiting list for counselling at the Doctor's surgery, but she did prescribe some Escitalopram for me.

Seems to be helping with my depression but not the anxiety.


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## Lisa21 (9 Apr 2011)

Steve30-how are you getting on with those, are you not having too much trouble with side effects? I was on them for 2 weeks but felt absolutely horrendous and had to change to something different but am feeling so much better, just a little spaced out and very sleepy


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## pepecat (10 Apr 2011)

That's what I take (escitalopram) and I think side effects for the first couple of weeks are fairly standard with them, though I apprectiate that different people get on better with different tablets. I took one, yes ONE seroxat and it made me sick as a dog, and so i switched to what i take now and it's been much better.
Side effects with escitalopram generally include: weird metally taste in mouth, nausea, tiredness (I still get really tired about 2 hours after taking one), shakes, increased anxiety, vivid dreams, decreased appetite. There are more......
Good luck with them Steve - hope they work for you!


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## ttcycle (10 Apr 2011)

It's been suggested by the docs that I take Mirtazapine; I've been avoiding taking it but for most nights not I just keep feeling uncontrollably low and just sitting and crying. I was out on a ride today in the sunshine - didn't feel myself but just got on with it and feeling odd all afternoon and in bits again at night.

What troubles me the most is the fact that whatever I am trying to do given that motivation is so low at times is not working and that I can't shift that horrible low and often that dead empty feeling inside just pervades every day things. Going through art therapy and talking therapy which has been really useful but the mood is just not shifting, not sleeping, having odd dreams and sometimes sleeping too much.

Have been discharged from the psychiatrist as was doing better but made a promise that if it worsened I was to see her and to start the medicine until I felt better and to keep taking it for 6months after that. Had so many problems with medicine and side effects and the fact that they didnt work at all - just dreading the medicine now but don't want things to get as bad as they did back in December.

I really hate this, I want to be myself again.


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## coffeejo (10 Apr 2011)

I was on Mirtazapine for a while, during one of my Low lows and it really worked, though the side effects were pretty carp - increased appetite, for one.

My mantra is This Too Will Pass. My friends always say "be kind to yourself".


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## ttcycle (10 Apr 2011)

the low lows is what worries me as they can be very very bad and not always with a predictive trigger. If I lived alone it would be a real concern but thankfully my partner can keep an eye on me and I feel a responsibility for someone else but that is a terrible burden to place on someone else.
I seem to have experienced the side effects more of medication then benefits apart from the first antidepressant that I took.

I hope it passes - even during my more well moments there has always been an edge of lowness...I hope one day this will eventually go or be around less and less but in the overwhelming emotions i sometimes find that I feel overwhelmed and hopeless by my own mind and emotions.


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## coffeejo (10 Apr 2011)

The last headshrinker I saw said something that made a lot of sense to me, and really helped me kick-start managing myself (I live alone). Basically, that I'm not going to suddenly "get better", as though recovering from a broken leg or even more serious physical injury, but rather than it's more like managing a long-term condition, such as diabetes. 

For some reason, this clicked with me and (mostly) helps me endure the lows.

I think that's why I'm enjoying cycling so much. Even if my mood plummets the moment I walk back into the house, for an hour or two, there's nothing but pedalling or free-wheeling: no doctors, no memories, no pain, no emptiness.


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## ttcycle (10 Apr 2011)

Yes, I'm not expecting a cure as I've always thought and understood it's a continuum; the odd thing is the more work U do, the more I try to understand the worse I feel. I understand what you're saying and am trying to tie in all those bits of knowledge for them to make sense.

I suppose it is very necessary and I must feel bad before the good- kind of a learning curve besides I think it's just needing to feel things as years and years of suppressing it logically can lead to this.

Thanks for the honesty coffeejo.


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## 661-Pete (11 Apr 2011)

Sorry to hear it's not working out TT, if you're back in a low-low we can only wish you all the best to hope to rise out of it again. *You will*. Can't think what more to say. Use whatever help you can get from those able to offer help.

Today (oops! yesterday) was a particularly 'bad day' for me, one of those in which everything seems to go wrong, and I'm not feeling too well physically at present, but I wouldn't call it a 'low-low' for now. Maybe the low-low which I went into in January-Feb (when I bumped this thread) was a one-off. There was a definite trigger, the YACF abuse business back in January. If that last doesn't happen again (and the shrink has warned me, it might), then I may be able to keep off the low-lows henceforth. I'm hoping to come off the citalopram sometime this year, at any rate.

I'm due to sign off with the shrink at any rate, next Wednesday. I don't seem to be getting much that's proactive out of the sessions. Maybe need a different approach.


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## steve30 (11 Apr 2011)

Lisa21 said:


> Steve30-how are you getting on with those, are you not having too much trouble with side effects? I was on them for 2 weeks but felt absolutely horrendous and had to change to something different but am feeling so much better, just a little spaced out and very sleepy



I'm getting on fine with the Escitalopram (10mg/day). Not really had any bad side effects.


It does make me a bit drowsy but not to an extent that it bothers me. 

It seems to have reduced my appetite a bit but I see that as a good thing. I wasn't eating too much before, but rather got hungry too much.


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## Lisa21 (11 Apr 2011)

Steve,good to hear your getting on ok with the tabs,i was on 40mg but just couldnt stay on them as I felt even worse.im now taking 60mg fluoxetine each morning and the difference so far is noticeable. TT,stay strong girlie im thinking about u + hope u start feelin better real soon xxxx


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## pepecat (11 Apr 2011)

TT - I can only echo what others have already said on here - things do get better. We can't say when, but it will. There are various studies that show that without medication, depression does get better for 4 out of 5 people within 4-6 months.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/problems/depression/depression.aspx (Royal College of Paychiatrists page)

If you are the unfortunate 1 in 5 that doesn't improve, there is, of course, help available - medication, talking etc. I was the 1 in 5 (bummer) and have spent the last two years pinging around the mental health / social services systems. BUT after the first four or five months (which were utterly crap - I can't remember most of them actually), things did improve. From that initial improvement the road back up to 'normal' has been long and slow, but it has been an upward hill. 

I guess, in cycling terms, it was a short steep initial 'improve' followed by a loooooonnnng grind of a gradual hill, with many little downs on the way up (if that makes sense) - bit like the profile of the Col de la Croix de fer on the Tour!


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## ttcycle (11 Apr 2011)

thanks all- I think it's the fact that I think back until my teens and there is always a tinge of depression that hangs around- hence my ability to present as very well to others- partially hiding; partially just coping and actually just being used to looking after myself and developing a bit of a shell that is probably more of a hinderance than a help these days. With many that know me I can be very caring, soft and empathic - I think I just need to be this with myself a more and not so much of an army general putting myself through my paces and being over critical- again this is a complex thing that I understand; just working on changing it. Hence why I shouldn't even bother training for competitive cycling as it gives me an excuse to be a Hitler to myself!


Basically, I think that is the crux of the problem along with the coping mechanism thing- there are complex reasons and explanations for this which I shall not go into on a public forum.

I think I am tough on myself- intellectually and rationally I really do understand the logistics of some things within my own mind and it makes me treat myself badly as I think why can I not fix it? I know this is not good and I'm trying to unlearn it. It indeed is the more wanting to feel better without having overwhelming floods of uncontrolled emotions that would be a good start - it just seems that the more I know it can sometimes be mixed in with not feeling anything and sometimes feeling too much and it being too much. I think it's impatience - there's a lot going on, hence logically yes I am in good reason feeling this way; things have been improving incrementally and I just can't feel good about it. Got some good news today- opened the letter and felt nothing but numbness..that I hate.


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## pepecat (12 Apr 2011)

Hey tt (and anyone else out there....)
In my experience, being hard on yourself is a) common to fellow depressives (and myself), and b) probably the worst thing we could do to ourselves.
Yeah..... 'I have nothing to be depressed about / other people have worse things going on than I do / I should be able to pull myself together / other people don't react to crap like I do....etc ad infinitum....
We can be harder on ourselves than anyone else can, and it's hard to give ourselves a break. But we kinda need to, cos beating ourselves over the head only makes us feel worse, and then we feel guilty cos we feel crap, and then we beat ourselves up even more, and so the cycle goes on. 
Not good. 

We need to be patient, and remember that it takes _time_ to recover from depression. It's not always a quick fix (much as we'd like it to be). And remember that for a while we might react more sensitively / erratically / whatever-ly to things, cos our mood is a bit all over the place. And also remember that we may not be the same people we were when we come out the other side of this. Depression changes people - it's certainly changed me. You learn stuff about yourself that you might not want to learn, but ultimately, if it helps you live 'better' (i.e you live in a way that suits you more, and not how you think other people think you should live) then it can only be a good thing.


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## trio25 (13 Apr 2011)

pepecat said:


> We need to be patient, and remember that it takes _time_ to recover from depression. It's not always a quick fix (much as we'd like it to be). And remember that for a while we might react more sensitively / erratically / whatever-ly to things, cos our mood is a bit all over the place. And also remember that we may not be the same people we were when we come out the other side of this. Depression changes people - it's certainly changed me. You learn stuff about yourself that you might not want to learn, but ultimately, if it helps you live 'better' (i.e you live in a way that suits you more, and not how you think other people think you should live) then it can only be a good thing.



This is a good point, my partner calls me a new and improved version of me since I've been really ill. I'm still not 100% and my never be but I certainly think of others more and am slightly less selfish.


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## pepecat (13 Apr 2011)

Yeah, me too..... my partner says i've changed. Don't know if it's for the better, but if it means i don't go through the last two years hell again, then it's a good thing. 
The other half's way of looking at it is that it's a bit like a badly broken leg - might leave you with a bit of limp, but you can get around ok and do the stuff you did before, just differently.


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## coffeejo (13 Apr 2011)

Think I've posted this before (memory shot to pieces atm) but I think it's less like a broken leg, more of a diagnosis of something like diabetes. Life-changing, potentially life-threatening, but potentially manageable in the long-run. (I hope, anyway.)


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## Fletch456 (14 Apr 2011)

If you need cheering up I find this song and video energising http://www.youtube.c...x=3&playnext=11 "I just had sex" feat Akon. Uplifting tune and funny. Before anyone objects after watching it, sense of humour is personal and I am not saying that it is for everyone.

And I wish I could have played it at work lots recently...
...had a glitch when I struggled with some work. I had clinical depression a few years ago and a small bout of it 18 months ago and being with BUPA the first time I was able to get a heck of a lot of therapy. Dealing with it is akin to being alcoholic..in my book. It's a long term thing that requires habit change - so as am not a child any more this means small and persistent changes and inherent slip ups as it's nigh on impossible to stay focussed on habit changing behaviour I think. 

I got stuck (as in a rut) with some work after I didn't understand the principles of what was required properly first off and was just going to follow how someone did it last year (following their documents) - I forgot just how hard this can be when you've not properly fully understood what is required. I found it hard to ask for help and as I was dealing with large spreadsheets the trees became numerous and I definitely couldn't see the wood. I still feel depressed about it now - though the work got completed last week, by someone else in the end. Given my tendency for dramatic thinking, feeling the pressure, having pressure applied to me and working long hours I was convinced for a few days that my "P45" was on the way (I say "P45" as I'm contracting). Suffice to say that though this will naturally have been discussed by my management I am still here and it's not been brought up with me yet. I may bring it up, in my own way, as I usually feel better with things out in the open. Though very very soon I will have to try and do almost the identical thing again.

I think I've been reminded that I hate to admit that I am struggling with something - it makes me feel like a victim and I much prefer to be able to offer part if not all of a solution. Plus sometimes I don't know the problem, just that I am struggling and need to talk it out with someone - the manager concerned isn't someone I can always feel I can do that with. My usual boss was on holiday (curse him! :-) grr). Though one reason / one way or another he may have felt it was a bit late in the process for me to not understand things therefore felt frustrated and annoyed. So couldn't talk it through with him


The other thing that is annoying me is I am thin skinned or sensitive (definitely the latter) and cycled in for the first time earlier this week which raised a few jokes. The office is small and at times has the humour of school changing rooms (they are engineers (no offence to any engineers here)) and it's not my humour. It could sound like I need to chill out and relax but I am worried on the back of the above and know I need to get it right next time I need to be focussed and getting things right. Plus where I am sat leaves me open to lots of interruptions such as when people walk by. I will, when feeling a smidgeon braver have words (in the appropriate and good way) with those who are only serving to put me on edge at the moment and wanted to write it here to get it off my chest.


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## Fletch456 (14 Apr 2011)

Further to my previous post...my boss has just emailed to arrange a meeting tomorrow re going forward giving my lack of delivery on last piece of work. Arrrgh!


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## Dayvo (14 Apr 2011)

Good luck, Fletch!

If you can look yourself in the eye in the mirror and say you did you best, then that is the most important praise you can get!

Sure you feel pressured at work at present, but it'll pass and you'll soon wonder what the problem was.

Do, however, try and speak openly and earnestly with your boss(es) about your situation and see if you can find a mutual solution (that doesn't mean you collecting your P45) to benefit both you and them.


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## ttcycle (14 Apr 2011)

Hi Fletch

Just a quick reply as really drained today. 

Don't be afraid to speak earnestly to your bosses; it really is about being able to say when you aren't 100% andor when you need help. That will be the only way to manage it and it's something you needn't do alone. 

There is also the disability discrimination act where if you want to you can disclose depression and see if there are adjustments that can be made to keep stress levels lower etc however best to take a witness/trusted colleague into the meeting if this is the route you want to go down. 

Good luck let us know how you get on


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## Fletch456 (15 Apr 2011)

Well Fellas,

An update - may be short and may add to it later. My contract was ended. They'd as good as made up their minds before meeting me this morning though the email last night said there was a need to look at options including potentially ending things with me. I was on a contract and actually without paper work and I was happy for it to be like that. So as depressed as I felt earlier and may do for a bit longer, I have enough in the bank for 3-4 months worth of bills and have time to get more cycling in.

The cock up that was my lack of delivery on the last piece of work was the cake and one or two mistakes I had made before could be called the icing. It's a shame for many reasons but I shall move on and learn from it...may come back to post what I am going to learn as sometimes saying it out loud or writing about it, rather than remaining in my head makes it real for me.

It could be a symptom of perhaps not feeling my best but I wish there was more part time work and part time work that paid enough - I feel like I have a thing against Mon-Fri 9-5, as if its a commitment noose around my neck. I am not sure I am describing how it really feels but may be I will happen across something that is part time, covers the bills and therefore lets me cycle more...though the lighter nights help with more cycling..so we shall see. At least I dont have to rush out to get something quickly.


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## Rebel Ian (15 Apr 2011)

Wow, what an amazing thread. It's not just me that feels like this then  .


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## ttcycle (15 Apr 2011)

Fletch I'm sorry to hear about the job though it's good you have financial safety net.

That may give you a bit of time to find that part tome work that suits you a bit better


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## 661-Pete (16 Apr 2011)

Sorry to hear about your woes, Fletch. If it helps you to keep posting updates on this thread, keep doing so! No-one here will tell you to stop, and if you *feel* it's helping, it *is* helping! I can't offer any advice (indeed, when did I ever give anyone good advice?), like the others I can only listen. Sounds like you had the worst possible employer at the worst possible time, and were treated about as badly as anyone can. But others will be different. Good luck!


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## 661-Pete (16 Apr 2011)

As far as I'm concerned, I'm definitely out of the worst, it's been a sort of 'bathtub' curve for me and perhaps now on the rising bit. I shall stop posting about my own stuff on this thread, unless things take another dip. There are 'unfinished' issues regarding the forums but I've put all that behind me. To be obsessive does no-one any good.

TBH I may spend more time on the astronomy forum which I've 're-joined', sort of. Would mean less time on CycleChat. But I shan't desert here altogether. And I'm not on any other cycling forums: no temptation to de-camp.


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## Fletch456 (25 Apr 2011)

661-Pete said:


> ... If it helps you to keep posting updates on this thread, keep doing so! No-one here will tell you to stop, and if you *feel* it's helping, it *is* helping! ...



Thanks Pete. A good point and reminder.

Variety of things have gone on including those in my head. Overall I am feeling more positive about things than not.

What would people put on an application form (its a pretty basic form so am going to have to add supplementary notes / paper) - when its part time and the job could be seen as the recruiter as below me? As I am imagining I will get rejected as over qualified and when he / she reads I used to be an analyst and previously account manager, leave him / her wondering. This is for a part time job in a garden centre and I have more than the skills they need. 

My idea with something that is pt is it will allow me to enjoy the summer (what we have of one weather wise), to go training on my bike and slow the rate at which I use my bank balance (ie happy (I think) - to use my bank balance towards paying bills and to allow me to work shorter hours for a while).


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## ttcycle (25 Apr 2011)

No harm in trying, if they have a section where you can add more info. Explain what you did above, it makes perfect sense. Basically wanting more work lids balance and a less pressurised work environment. Good luck!


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## Speicher (25 Apr 2011)

Fletch, your last paragraph is telling me why you do not want to work full-time. All excellent reasons, I would say. But can you think of positive reasons for working part-time. Reasons that you would be able to explain at an Interview, and possibly include briefly in your application.

Lots of people will apply for a part-time job, just because it is a job, and they are seeking any job. You, I think, would need to clarify that you are looking for part-time work. You mention cycling over the summer, is this a temporary job? If it is a permanent job, you may need to be able to explain why you will be continuing after the Autumn.

My suggestion would be to paraphrase the your post above. Then start a new thread in Cafe or somewhere. There are several members of the forum who are in Recruitment. They may be able to offer more advice.

Hope this helps, I am not in any way in Recruitment.

Your reasons for wanting to work part-time are very good ones, but the person in charge of Recruiting is looking at you and your application from a different perspective.


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## Fletch456 (25 Apr 2011)

"Your reasons for wanting to work part-time are very good ones, but the person in charge of Recruiting is looking at you and your application from a different perspective. "


They certainly are Speicher. Thanks for the advice. I've written in CC and held off doing the form as I felt I hadn't come up with the right things yet. I will rephrase and post in the Cafe or similar later.


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## Speicher (25 Apr 2011)

Fletch, I have now read your new thread on this dilemma. As you say, you would be better presenting your reasons for wanting part-time work in a positive way. 

Are you going to handwrite your form? I have found that it is useful to take some photocopies, and use the copies to work out how much detail you can fit in each "Box" regarding the more complex things like "Why are you applying for this job?" This means that you do not get half way through what you planned to write, only to find there is not room for the rest of what you want to say. Then you have to redraft what you planned to put, and it does not flow so well. 

I can imagine you have filled in lots of application forms. As this is a Garden Centre, the forms may be very different to those which you are used to completing.


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## Fletch456 (26 Apr 2011)

That's a good one Speicher and something I learnt a while ago with app forms though I've not had to complete one for years - a CV usually. I measured by using number of lines and width of pad I was practicing on. Though am having second thoughts the more I think about this particular job but the form for the Garden Centre is poor as I would / will have to use supplementary paper for one thing that I think is obvious - why do you want this job - it doesn't ask for it.


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## coffeejo (26 Apr 2011)

Most low paid jobs are less about the form and more about the interview. FWIW, I went from a career-based job to stacking shelves and nobody asked about the change in direction, they just wanted someone who would turn up on time, do the job and not take proverbial.


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## Fletch456 (26 Apr 2011)

coffeejo said:


> Most low paid jobs are less about the form and more about the interview. FWIW, I went from a career-based job to stacking shelves and nobody asked about the change in direction, they just wanted someone who would turn up on time, do the job and not take proverbial.



Really Jo. No questions asked?

What made you make the change if you don't mind me asking?


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## coffeejo (26 Apr 2011)

Desperation, tbh! I was living in Oxford at the time with my then-OH and working in London, commuting 3 days a week and working from home for 2. It was a fixed term contract but when it ended, I couldn't find an Oxford-based job in the same sector and all the London ones wanted me in 5 days a week. After a month's unemployment, I took a shelf-stacking job but seriously, they never once asked WHY someone with my qualifications was applying for the job: as I said, they wanted reliable and conscientious staff.


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