# Is a bike fitting worth it?



## Stef 1 (4 Jul 2018)

Regualr rider for 4 years on the same bike. Currently avereage around 5 to 6 hours per week in the saddle. 

I spent a lot of time in the first year adjusting things like saddle height, fore / aft, cleat position etc. Also read up a lot on positioning etc. Never quite been 100% satisfied and sometimes wonder is by bike is a smidge small (top tube length) as I feel a little 'compressed' at times, or if saddle should be further forwards for optimim leg/knee position, but then I'd feel even more compressed...

Generally I'm comfy enough up to an hour and a half... after that lower back pain gradually increases. After 2 hours its quite uncomfy... haven't managed to ride much more than 2.5 hours becuase of it. Other than that I'd have the stamina to keep going. I also used to get knee pain but seem to have over come that okay.

Maybe it's a fitness / core thing. I consider myself reasonably fit, but perhaps if I keep plugging away things will improve? 

It's always been in the back of my mind though that paying for a bike fit might be worth it.

What do you think?
Anyone who's ridden for a while, then had a fitting notice much difference?
They're not cheap from what i've seen, but if gains are to be had it might be worth it....


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## mjr (4 Jul 2018)

I seem able to get the fit close enough myself after decades of mucking about, but the guide on www.wheel-easy.org.uk left sidebar matches most of what I think. I've also compared my road bike setup with the various calculators online - I think it's close to one called "the Eddy fit". Any idea how yours compares?

I'd consider paying for a fit if I was suffering pain like that and was unable to resolve it with DIY but I suspect I might be dissatisfied.


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## Stef 1 (4 Jul 2018)

Thanks for that, I'll print out that guide and have a look tonight. Will report back. I remember checking some stuff in there, like the plumb-line knee to peddal pivot, but will give it a good read through.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2018)

I had one after 40 years of cycling, I considered it money well spent.


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## Kajjal (4 Jul 2018)

If you don’t have time, are struggling to do it yourself or have injuries etc. then a bike fit can be useful. Just be clear what you want from it as not everyone wants a very head down racing position.

For most you can get very good results yourself. Start with the saddle position and remember it is just to get your legs in the right position not to adjust reach etc. Then see where you hands fall naturally and aim to get the bars in that position. Moving spacers and flipping the stem are easy free adjustments. A bike being a little small is no problem.


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## gavroche (4 Jul 2018)

I had one and think it is money well spent .


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## iluvmybike (4 Jul 2018)

I had one and it made a big differecne to both back & knee gripes I had - it is now very comfy


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## Drago (4 Jul 2018)

I had one, caused me slight problems. I was previously very comfy, it caused me slight gripes in my titanium filled arm.

There are several big systems, many niche ones, and most contradict each other, at least in some small part, as to how a rider biomechanically interfaces with a bike. That being the case, it's not really possible to give a blanket yes or no answer. Some may give you excellent results, some may not - they can't all be right.


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## Slick (4 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I had one after 40 years of cycling, I considered it money well spent.


I think it probably does depend on who you go to as there is good and bad at every job but if after 40 years riding and still get benefit from it should really tell you all you need to know. Especially if you aren't convinced you have ever been in the optimum position. 

I got one pretty much at the start of my riding and tried to replicate it on every bike since. I pretty much know that I could go back and learn something new. In fact I may book an appointment.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2018)

Slick said:


> I think it probably does depend on who you go to as there is good and bad at every job but if after 40 years riding and still get benefit from it should really tell you all you need to know. Especially if you aren't convinced you have ever been in the optimum position.
> 
> I got one pretty much at the start of my riding and tried to replicate it on every bike since. I pretty much know that I could go back and learn something new. In fact I may book an appointment.



Adrian Timmis, worked for my fit.


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## Slick (4 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> Adrian Timmis, worked for my fit.


It still surprises me the attitude of many to these fits when someone of your experience can benefit. I realise we are all different but they are a useful tool especially like the OP, you have an issue.


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## cyberknight (4 Jul 2018)

http://bikedynamics.co.uk/backpain.htm
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefitchart.html


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## Stef 1 (4 Jul 2018)

Lots of useful stuff - thanks. 

I think over the next month or so I’m going to fiddle and tweak a little - saddle height, stem length, that kind of thing. I’ll measure and mark everything first so it’s easy enough to revert back. i guess any adjustment needs enough time and miles to allow my body to ‘bed in’ to really tell if there’s any improvement. If no improvement after a few weeks I’ll look at paying someone reputable. Enough of you seem to have benefitted from bike fits you’ve had, so that’s enough convincing for me.

After reading through from a few of the links posted above, I’m wondering if my saddle could be a smidge higher. I also wonder if I’m fuelling myself enough.. after 2hrs for example, I guess I may run out of energy a bit or fatigue, change my peddling style to accommodate and maybe start rocking my pelvis. I’ll keep an eye on that. 

I haven’t seen it mentioned in any links but wonder if changing to a more forgiving saddle might help too... fabric scoop, brooks etc... I still have the relatively cheap saddle that came with bike.

I’ll let you know how I get on but alway greatful for any advice!


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## Kajjal (4 Jul 2018)

Typical symptoms of a saddle being too high are rocking on the saddle, moving forward on the saddle, feet pointing down at bottom of pedal stroke etc. Also you will tend to get injuries related to over stretching and being too tense on the bike. If in doubt go a little low.


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## Slick (4 Jul 2018)

Stef 1 said:


> Lots of useful stuff - thanks.
> 
> I think over the next month or so I’m going to fiddle and tweak a little - saddle height, stem length, that kind of thing. I’ll measure and mark everything first so it’s easy enough to revert back. i guess any adjustment needs enough time and miles to allow my body to ‘bed in’ to really tell if there’s any improvement. If no improvement after a few weeks I’ll look at paying someone reputable. Enough of you seem to have benefitted from bike fits you’ve had, so that’s enough convincing for me.
> 
> ...


Probably the biggest improvement on my fit was the change in saddle.


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## NorthernDave (4 Jul 2018)

I might be the exception here, but I've never felt the need for a bike fit.
Either I'm lucky, or I am an unusual size that just fits bikes. 

I've never needed to do anything other than adjust the saddle height on any of the bikes I've owned. It sometimes takes a few tweaks to get it just so, then that it and I've spent up to 8 hours at a time on the bike so it works for me.

That said, I've got a mate who try as he might just couldn't get himself comfortable on his bike. 
He paid for a bike fit and as a consequence changed several components on the bike and reckons it's some of the best money he's ever spent.


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## Kajjal (4 Jul 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> I might be the exception here, but I've never felt the need for a bike fit.
> Either I'm lucky, or I am an unusual size that just fits bikes.
> 
> I've never needed to do anything other than adjust the saddle height on any of the bikes I've owned. It sometimes takes a few tweaks to get it just so, then that it and I've spent up to 8 hours at a time on the bike so it works for me.
> ...



You are just lucky at being the perfect average bike size 

On all my bikes I have had to make various adjustments to make them fit me well such as wider saddle, stem change, moving spacers etc.


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## derrick (4 Jul 2018)

Try this before you waste your money.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VYhyppWTDc


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hteUPJjL32o


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## vickster (4 Jul 2018)

Do you do anything off the bike in terms of other exercise, stretching etc

I’ve had 3 bikes fits over the years. The first was Retul, fairly unhelpful and most costly. The other two were done by physios who actually understood the joint issues and history I have. I’ll potentially get the second Physio to do a fit on the new bike if I can’t get it right myself quickly or get issues.

£100 max to get a 2.4k bike right is certainly worth it for me. But we’re all different


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## Stef 1 (4 Jul 2018)

Thanks *Derrick*, seen and used those vids before. Good to go over them again though. The GCN vid led me to another video about saddle height so tweaked based on that. I though I’d need to be higher, but it made me a few mm lower. I’ve also re-levelled my saddle. Always been ever-so-slightly nose up, just personal pref but can see how it could put pressure on lower back.

Thanks too *Vickster. *I don’t do masses of other exercise... swim about a mile per week and a few push ups everyday for past couple of months. I’ll maybe swap that for more ‘core’ or stretchy stuff. I don’t sit in the best position at my desk (I’m a slouched) so guess hours of that doesn’t do my back much good either.

The more I think about it, there’s a fair bit I can try before paying for a fit. I see there value and recognise done correctly they’re beneficial but am keen to see what I can achieve first. 

I think investing in a new saddle is the next move.


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## derrick (5 Jul 2018)

Stef 1 said:


> Thanks *Derrick*, seen and used those vids before. Good to go over them again though. The GCN vid led me to another video about saddle height so tweaked based on that. I though I’d need to be higher, but it made me a few mm lower. I’ve also re-levelled my saddle. Always been ever-so-slightly nose up, just personal pref but can see how it could put pressure on lower
> 
> I think investing in a new saddle is the next move.


Saddles are completely different ballgame. I found the specialized Toupe a good starting point. Then moved to selle italia. The ones with the split in them suit me. You need to try before you buy. A good saddle is worth its weight in gold.


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## ianrauk (5 Jul 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> I might be the exception here, but I've never felt the need for a bike fit.
> Either I'm lucky, or I am an unusual size that just fits bikes.
> 
> I've never needed to do anything other than adjust the saddle height on any of the bikes I've owned. It sometimes takes a few tweaks to get it just so, then that it and I've spent up to 8 hours at a time on the bike so it works for me.
> ...


Im exactly the same. I can fit my bikes by feel and look. Luckily to have never had any problems.


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## Lavender Rose (5 Jul 2018)

I was mentioning about having wider handlebars, but then apparently its uncommon for women to need these  So maybe it's just me....

I am considering this as well, I too have made small adjustments myself - but I feel this maybe a good idea for myself as I have 'mechanical lower back issues' (my osteopaths words!)


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## Trigger369 (5 Jul 2018)

I had a retul bike fit 4 weeks ago . Before it I had numb fingers and feet ,sore bum always wiggling about on the saddle ,sore shoulders after a ride ,and sore knee occasionally 
Fitted by a semi pro rider . 
I needed my saddle risen by 5mm brought back 20mm and saddle changed to a wider saddle as my own saddle wasnt wide enough.handle bars lowered a bit as well . I Had insoles put into my shoes as my arches were high and feet were moving about in my shoes .
Now have no more numbness in feet and hands ,shoulders pain near completely gone .and bum is a he'll of a lot better . Tho I still find on a 50mile ride I still am wiggling about on the saddle after an hour trying to get comfort . I've still to go back for a review to see if the fit has worked so I would say it will be sorted before I leave the fit . I hpoe lol . But i would say its 200quid plus 80 for the new saddle pretty expensive but well worth the money if u have problems .


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## bpsmith (5 Jul 2018)

I am a Fizik Arione man personally, or at least my sit bones are. I have 3 different versions on 3 bikes and they all fit lovely. 2 are essentially the same, other than the kium vs carbon rails. The other one is the Tri version which has more padding on the front and front section for obvious reasons. Again the fit is great as they shape is the same.

It just proves that it’s the width and shape which matters, more than the padding.


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## harrison_888 (5 Jul 2018)

I’ve made a number of adjustments but I still get a niggle in the lower back over 1.5 hours and my left hand begins to get pins and needles after an hour. The back problem I consider to be down to top tube length but the numby hand seems more tricky to adjust out. I know a bike fit will look into this more closely but at £80 at the LBS I don’t know if it’s worth it.


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## Drago (5 Jul 2018)

vickster said:


> Do you do anything off the bike in terms of other exercise, stretching etc
> 
> I’ve had 3 bikes fits over the years. The first was Retul, fairly unhelpful and most costly. The other two were done by physios who actually understood the joint issues and history I have. I’ll potentially get the second Physio to do a fit on the new bike if I can’t get it right myself quickly or get issues.
> 
> £100 max to get a 2.4k bike right is certainly worth it for me. But we’re all different



Aye, mine was a Retul fit. If I'd paid full price I'd have been most unimpressed.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jul 2018)

Wife had a retul bike fit. Waste of money.


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## bpsmith (5 Jul 2018)

I assume that a Retül starts with the ideal position for your height and flexibility. Then requires expertise to factor in specific issues and quirks.


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## derrick (5 Jul 2018)

Trigger369 said:


> I had a retul bike fit 4 weeks ago . Before it I had numb fingers and feet ,sore bum always wiggling about on the saddle ,sore shoulders after a ride ,and sore knee occasionally
> Fitted by a semi pro rider .
> I needed my saddle risen by 5mm brought back 20mm and saddle changed to a wider saddle as my own saddle wasnt wide enough.handle bars lowered a bit as well . I Had insoles put into my shoes as my arches were high and feet were moving about in my shoes .
> Now have no more numbness in feet and hands ,shoulders pain near completely gone .and bum is a he'll of a lot better . Tho I still find on a 50mile ride I still am wiggling about on the saddle after an hour trying to get comfort . I've still to go back for a review to see if the fit has worked so I would say it will be sorted before I leave the fit . I hpoe lol . But i would say its 200quid plus 80 for the new saddle pretty expensive but well worth the money if u have problems .


You will need to go back in a few months time to do it all again. Just like every one else i know who have had a bike fit. Explain to me how someone who does not know you can put you in a posision thats right.


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## vickster (5 Jul 2018)

derrick said:


> You will need to go back in a few months time to do it all again. Just like every one else i know who have had a bike fit. Explain to me how someone who does not know you can put you in a posision thats right.


Which is why I go to a Physio who does and understands the medical stuff unlike someone who’s done the Retul course


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## Drago (6 Jul 2018)

I reverted to my own settings. By then I had over 4 decades of saddle experience, and was pretty used to my duff arm, and had tweaked my settings to a very comfortable degree, and nothing but nothing is more important than comfort. No point in being in a biomechanically efficient position if you're uncomfortable.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jul 2018)

Drago said:


> and nothing but nothing is more important than comfort. No point in being in a biomechanically efficient position if you're uncomfortable.



This is where a lot of so-called "serious" cyclists seem to lose the plot, IMHO. They obsess about "efficiency" and being able to produce the maximum power output, and spend good money on bike fits in order to achieve this. What seems to get lost in all the obsession for a few extra watts, is that riding a bike is supposed to be enjoyable, and there is nothing enjoyable about riding in a manner that forces your body into an unnatural position, like the aggressive head down arse up stance that a lot of amateurs seem to have aped from pros. The difference is the pros are being paid good money to endure the discomfort of riding like this for the extra speed, the amateur cyclist isn't. 
Just like @Drago I've been riding bikes for over 40 years on and off, and I think by now I pretty much know how high I like my saddle for easy pedalling and minimal fatigue, and how high and far away I want the handlebars to avoid numb hand or shoulder and back discomfort. Unless you have a custom-built bike, you are always going to be compromising to a certain degree starting out with whatever production frame size feels best.


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## Profpointy (6 Jul 2018)

Not a "bike fit" per se, but when I bought my Condor, they worked out the sizing and positioning by sitting me on their adjust-o-tron bike frame. They then chose frame size and stem etc based on that. Bike was assembled and set.up based on that and I must say it is by far the most comfortable bike I've ridden, having never been quite happy with set up on my other bikes. I think I dropped the handlebars down 5mm a year later, but it was still spot on pretty much. OK it's a nice bike anyway, but I reckon the fit is much of that. Not quite the answer to your question other than to say fit really does matter. My own opinion, and it is only opinion now, is that I'd consider a formal "bike fit" only from someone who is reccommended and that that recommendation is from someone you yourself trust - ie the recommendor is themselves rational and sensible, rather than swayed by the latest fad. Also from the OP, you have a view of things being not quite right, so at least there is something to aim at rather than chasing shadows


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## screenman (6 Jul 2018)

To the OP if it is disposable income what else would you spend it on, many spend it on drinking, smoking, magazines etc. the choice is


SkipdiverJohn said:


> This is where a lot of so-called "serious" cyclists seem to lose the plot, IMHO. They obsess about "efficiency" and being able to produce the maximum power output, and spend good money on bike fits in order to achieve this. What seems to get lost in all the obsession for a few extra watts, is that riding a bike is supposed to be enjoyable, and there is nothing enjoyable about riding in a manner that forces your body into an unnatural position, like the aggressive head down arse up stance that a lot of amateurs seem to have aped from pros. The difference is the pros are being paid good money to endure the discomfort of riding like this for the extra speed, the amateur cyclist isn't.
> Just like @Drago I've been riding bikes for over 40 years on and off, and I think by now I pretty much know how high I like my saddle for easy pedalling and minimal fatigue, and how high and far away I want the handlebars to avoid numb hand or shoulder and back discomfort. Unless you have a custom-built bike, you are always going to be compromising to a certain degree starting out with whatever production frame size feels best.



I cannot stand poodling about, head down and backside up on every ride for this old guy, certainly with my back it is also more comfortable. I am of course different to you as many other are, am I here saying you are wrong, no I am not, just different.


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## crazyjoe101 (6 Jul 2018)

If you're not hard up then a bike fit is well worth the money if you're struggling to find a good position on your bike, also consider the use of apps or a more experienced cycling friend's eye to help.

As I started getting fitter, riding further and faster a few years ago, I could not work out the cause of my lower back and knee pain despite attempting to adjust almost every aspect of my bike. Eventually after a bike fit it was determined that although my frame was the right size for my height by general measures, my body proportions were better suited to a larger frame, so they make some setup changes and a stem change on my bike which helped in the short term. Eventually I built up a larger frame and set it up to according to their size chart and I have had almost 0 aches and pains on my bikes that relate to fit in the years since, worth the £150 in my eyes.

EDIT: They also recommended me a saddle and pair of shoes, both were relatively expensive and both have paid for themselves many times over in changing my experience on my bike. Some people will say I was dumb enough to be taken round the block, others will agree it's worth the money.


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## bpsmith (6 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> To the OP if it is disposable income what else would you spend it on, many spend it on drinking, smoking, magazines etc. the choice is
> 
> 
> I cannot stand poodling about, head down and backside up on every ride for this old guy, certainly with my back it is also more comfortable. I am of course different to you as many other are, am I here saying you are wrong, no I am not, just different.


I would say @SkipdiverJohn is actually wrong. Not in the part about riding supposed to be enjoyable, but in the part where he blindly assumes that a more aggressive position is automatically uncomfortable. As you say, we’re all different. Some people are actually more comfortable in what looks like a more aggressive position. That just the way it is. Others are clearly trying hard to force themselves into that position and it doesn’t work for them. Just not everyone needs to be sat bolt upright.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> I would say @SkipdiverJohn is actually wrong. Not in the part about riding supposed to be enjoyable, but in the part where he blindly assumes that a more aggressive position is automatically uncomfortable. As you say, we’re all different. Some people are actually more comfortable in what looks like a more aggressive position. That just the way it is. Others are clearly trying hard to force themselves into that position and it doesn’t work for them. Just not everyone needs to be sat bolt upright.



I would say only a small minority of high-mileage cyclists are sufficiently flexible to be genuinely happy with that sort of stance. A lot of riders blindly copycat whatever the latest fashion is perceived to be - whether it be clothing, riding position - whatever, and force themselves to ride in an uncomfortable manner out of vanity. If I rode a bike any distance with the bars several inches lower than the saddle, my next trip would be to the doctors to get a sick note for a couple of weeks off work with a bad back!


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## bpsmith (6 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I would say only a small minority of high-mileage cyclists are sufficiently flexible to be genuinely happy with that sort of stance. A lot of riders blindly copycat whatever the latest fashion is perceived to be - whether it be clothing, riding position - whatever, and force themselves to ride in an uncomfortable manner out of vanity. If I rode a bike any distance with the bars several inches lower than the saddle, my next trip would be to the doctors to get a sick note for a couple of weeks off work with a bad back!


What qualifies you to make that decision and on what basis? I can’t imagine there’s any data out there to suggest that.

You also made the assumption that all riders are high mileage riders. Some people have multiple bikes which are set up to be suited to the riding style they choose on any particular day. They may have an aero bike which is designed to be comfortable for only shorter rides, along with a more relaxed setup for longer ones. Others are comfortable all day long with a decent drop between saddle and bars.

Not everyone has a fleet of bikes that all do the same job and are all set up the same.


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## screenman (6 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I would say only a small minority of high-mileage cyclists are sufficiently flexible to be genuinely happy with that sort of stance. A lot of riders blindly copycat whatever the latest fashion is perceived to be - whether it be clothing, riding position - whatever, and force themselves to ride in an uncomfortable manner out of vanity. If I rode a bike any distance with the bars several inches lower than the saddle, my next trip would be to the doctors to get a sick note for a couple of weeks off work with a bad back!




Maybe you should do some stretching.


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## bpsmith (6 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> Maybe you should do some stretching.


Or get a bike that fits and is adjustable and not just what happens to be free.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Or get a bike that fits and is adjustable and not just what happens to be free.



I'll have you know I'm actually quite fussy about what I will pull out of a skip and ride. Nothing with any sort of suspension for starters, and sizing has to be in the right ball park. I've thrown several back in again after rejecting them. Most of my bike acquisitions have involved the exchange of cash, not a large amount I grant you, but money did change hands.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why the assumption that a bike fit will result in a more "aggressive" position? Mine resulted in the bars being raised a bit.



Possibly because ,most cyclists that are willing to shell out the price of a cheapo new bike just for a fit are likely to be more bothered about performance than the average rider. I would suspect if you stopped ten random utility cyclists just going about their everyday business and asked them what they thought of bike fits,the response from most of them would probably be along the lines of "WTF is a bike fit? - never heard of it"


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

Never used a bike for anything other than sporting here. Still a cyclist though.


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## Milkfloat (7 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Possibly because ,most cyclists that are willing to shell out the price of a cheapo new bike just for a fit are likely to be more bothered about performance than the average rider.



Or more accurately as this thread and the many others on bike fit show, most of the posters who have actually had a bike fit did it to try to end discomfort. But don’t let that get in the way of your unfounded opinions, as usual.


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## Soltydog (7 Jul 2018)

Stef 1 said:


> I spent a lot of time in the first year adjusting things like saddle height, fore / aft, cleat position etc. Also read up a lot on positioning etc. Never quite been 100% satisfied and sometimes wonder is by bike is a smidge small (top tube length) as I feel a little 'compressed' at times, or if saddle should be further forwards for optimim leg/knee position, but then I'd feel even more compressed...
> 
> Generally I'm comfy enough up to an hour and a half... after that lower back pain gradually increases. After 2 hours its quite uncomfy... haven't managed to ride much more than 2.5 hours becuase of it. Other than that I'd have the stamina to keep going. I also used to get knee pain but seem to have over come that okay.
> 
> Maybe it's a fitness / core thing. I consider myself reasonably fit, but perhaps if I keep plugging away things will improve?



Back to the OP, I'd been cycling a lot longer than 4 years before I had a bike fit earlier this year, although I've not owned many bikes for more than 4 years  At the bike fit minimal changes were made, slight adjustment to cleat position, & saddle & bars raised slightly. I suffer with my back, but my lower back actually improves the more I cycle (my chiropracter has always said that cycling will help my back & improve my core) however on long rides (6hr+)or rides involving a lot of riding into the wind often result in tight shoulders & neck. The bike fit did help reduce this.
I think the key is finding the right bike fit, maybe on someone's recommendation if anyone local has had one

Being 6'5" I often thought my bikes could be a touch on the small side & maybe I was making do with the largest standard frame available, but after a visit to Enigma last week, I was measured & had a bike fit on a demo bike, (which was as thorough as the bike fit I paid for) I was willing to pay for a custom geometry frame if need be, but I'm not even right on the limit of their largest frame. Maybe just getting the bars & saddle in right position is key? 
If you are planning a new bike any time soon, maybe consider a shop that offers a bike fitting service free with a bike purchase? A friend bought a Van Nic from Fatbirds last year & was quite impressed with the bike fit he had on collection of the bike


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## mjr (7 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'll have you know I'm actually quite fussy about what I will pull out of a skip and ride.


I love it!


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## Stef 1 (7 Jul 2018)

Wow - can of worms opened ?! . Didn’t realise it would be such a devisive subject.
Great reading though. Appreciate the different perspectives. It’s what makes forums interesting. 

I’m trying a new saddle (fitted yesterday after measuring sitbones a bunch of times, short ride, already adjusted again today), measured a bunch of stuff, raised the saddle by about 10mm, done the KOPs thing, got the missus to take pics of me on the bike (she thinks I’m bonkers) and measured angles, adjusted my cleats (think they were too far back causing me to be a little toe down). Will have another short ride to see how all that is working out before a much longer ride tomorrow.

After that, I’m maybe considering a higher stem, although I’m not an ‘upright’ cyclist at all (I guess I‘d put myself in the ‘performance’ position category.... 80% on the hoods, 15% on the drops and 5% on the tops), it might stop me putting too much weight through my arms if I’m reaching forwards too much. We’ll see.

I think i’ll stick with adjusting things like that for the rest of the season and see how I get on. Doubt I’ll cycle that much more than 100km in one go this year (about my pain tolerance limit for now), and if I do further maybe I just need to stop for a good stretching and rest for bit part way around. My rides in the winter tend to be much shorter so the lower back pain isn’t an issue then.

I am considering either a new bike, or rebuilding my current one for next year, so if I don’t manage to sort my lower back by then (I plan to work on a few core excercises too that might help) I think i’ll consider chatting to the guys at the local club (that I’m not a member of, being a solo cyclist) to see who they’d recommend (if anyone) for a fit.

Thanks for all your input. Despite the polar opposite opinions it’s all been a big help - love this forum!

*Edit*// thought it interesting (due to some of the comments and opinions in this thread ) that as I’ve got fitter and naturally faster etc my position is slowly getting lower on its own. Not because i’m forcing it too, but just because it just feels comfier / more natural / more efficient / powerful for certain stages in a ride, and shifting my weight over different parts of the bike for certain conditions is the natural thing to do. Strangely enough usually the last part of a long ride is the more head down part for me... maybe fatigue, or just a final push to get home.. admittedly I don’t have the belly I used to a couple of years ago, so I now ‘fold’ over much easier and more naturally. My position does change a lot thoughout a ride, not ‘cos i’m copying any style, but just what feels or works best at any given point. It’d feel plain weird (and probably be dangerous) to sit bolt upright cruising at 30kph, or flying downhill at 45 - 50kph!

I also don’t have piles of cash just waiting to be spent - hence why i posted on here. It’d definitely be a considered purchase and i’d probably deem a fit worth it only if I could be reasonably sure it would solve a specific problem (lower back pain) that I couldn’t fix on my own. I’d rather not need to spend the £££ on something not so tangible or material - i’m a tight northerner after all.!


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## HLaB (7 Jul 2018)

Drago said:


> Aye, mine was a Retul fit. If I'd paid full price I'd have been most unimpressed.


Ditto. I think the fitter put me in the most powerful position in the lab. Bolt up right and not very aerodynamic so not the fastest or most comfortable as it put too much weight on my rear. The fitter did identify a leg length discrepancy which was very helpful though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> Never used a bike for anything other than sporting here. Still a cyclist though.



Sporting cyclists are very much in the minority, the majority either cycle purely for utility reasons, for relaxation/general wellbeing/weight control, or a mixture of any of them. Most cycles on the road are flat bar machines of various sorts and their riders are not generally at all interested in going as fast as possible or attempting to beat someone else's time. Someone made a comment the other day on the Lidl cycling offers thread, saying they were misguided to sell cycling shoes that weren't deigned for cleats. They completely missed the point that the vast majority of cyclists have no intention of riding clipless, so they don't want or need SPD shoes. I'd say Lidl have judged their market better than the commentator, as I had to search through a large pile of the shoes today to find the one remaining pair in my size! I wouldn't have bought them if they were SPD, I want shoes I can cycle in and then do other everyday activity in without having to keep changing footwear.



Stef 1 said:


> . It’d feel plain weird (and probably be dangerous) to sit bolt upright cruising at 30kph, or flying downhill at 45 - 50kph!
> I also don’t have piles of cash just waiting to be spent - hence why i posted on here. It’d definitely be a considered purchase and i’d probably deem a fit worth it only if I could be reasonably sure it would solve a specific problem (lower back pain) that I couldn’t fix on my own. I’d rather not need to spend the £££ on something not so tangible or material - i’m a tight northerner after all.!



When I had a drop bar bike I used to sit as upright as possible on descents as a means of aerodynamic speed control to reduce the need for braking - I had steel rims back then too. I'm not interested in trying to beat the land speed record when descending a gradient on a bike, I'd rather get to the bottom in one piece without crashing
Not wanting to waste money on something intangible is not being a "tight Northerner" at all, it's simply called having your head screwed on. There's nothing Northern about me -and I don't waste money on trivial stuff either..


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## Cuchilo (7 Jul 2018)

Like toilet paper ? Waste of money that when you can use old wall paper you have found !


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

John, so if we do not think and behave the same as you then we are wrong. Have you thought that if us guys with disposable did not spend it there would be nothing in the skips for you to scavenge. The majority of people around the world do not have a computer, or access to the internet, does it make you a money waster for using one?


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## Ian H (7 Jul 2018)

I'll trust a bike-fit bod who's ridden for as long as I have. Except they'll probably have retired.


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## bpsmith (7 Jul 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Like toilet paper ? Waste of money that when you can use old wall paper you have found !


Or Beer, as you can get equally as cross eyed from the similarly coloured water at the bottom of a skip.


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## bpsmith (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> I'll trust a bike-fit bod who's ridden for as long as I have. Except they'll probably have retired.


Being a long time rider might be a bonus for bike fitting, but far from qualifies anyone without actually knowing about the anatomy and the effects of adjusting various bike components accordingly.


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> I'll trust a bike-fit bod who's ridden for as long as I have. Except they'll probably have retired.



You may have a problem finding a doctor later in life.


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## Ian H (7 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Being a long time rider might be a bonus for bike fitting, but far from qualifies anyone without actually knowing about the anatomy and the effects of adjusting various bike components accordingly.



You don't say! 

But most bike-fitting services are just a way of relieving beginners and the gullible of their money.


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> You don't say!
> 
> But most bike-fitting services are just a way of relieving beginners and the gullible of their money.



I got huge benefit from paying £175 for a bike fit, I had tampered around for over 40 years and taken advice from some of the countries too coaches and even the British team chiropractor, gullible, I doubt it 

What happened with your fit that has put you off them?


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## Ian H (7 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I got huge benefit from paying £175 for a bike fit, I had tampered around for over 40 years and taken advice from some of the countries too coaches and even the British team chiropractor, gullible, I doubt it
> 
> What happened with your fit that has put you off them?



The builder who made my last but one frame measured me up on his jig, and managed to get within a couple of mm of my position on the old bike, so no change there. Our club coach squinted at my position and declared there was nothing wrong with that. 

However, if you re-read my previous post carefully...


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## bpsmith (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> You don't say!
> 
> But most bike-fitting services are just a way of relieving beginners and the gullible of their money.


Well you’re the one that thinks anyone who does bike fits, that happens to have ridden as long as you, is automatically better than someone with real fit experience but not ridden for as long.

You’re also rather bitter and pessimistic in stating that most bike fit services are just to rip people off. I just don’t agree.


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## Ian H (7 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Well you’re the one that thinks anyone who does bike fits, that happens to have ridden as long as you, is automatically better than someone with real fit experience but not ridden for as long.
> 
> You’re also rather bitter and pessimistic in stating that most bike fit services are just to rip people off. I just don’t agree.



Realistic and amused. The key word you seem not to see is 'most'.


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> The builder who made my last but one frame measured me up on his jig, and managed to get within a couple of mm of my position on the old bike, so no change there. Our club coach squinted at my position and declared there was nothing wrong with that.
> 
> However, if you re-read my previous post carefully...[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## bpsmith (7 Jul 2018)

Ian H said:


> Realistic and amused. The key word you seem not to see is 'most'.


I think not, otherwise I would also have not used the same word in my response, as above.


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## screenman (7 Jul 2018)

I wonder if some of the people offering advice on a bike fit have ever had a good one done, somehow I doubt it.


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## bpsmith (8 Jul 2018)

I think they’re doing it wrong and I really don’t get it tbh.

If you read posts about bike fits, some above and others in previous threads, people appear to get them done then go and ride the adjusted bike, only to then complain that it feels all weird. They then move it back to how it “feels right”, which is basically how it was before as the muscles are trained in that position.

If people only have the adjusted bike a go then they may actually get the benefit once they get used to it.

Ironically, others then say that nothing much was changed so aren’t happy. It’s likely that these people were close to their ideal position. I do sympathise with this group though, as I get how it could be disappointing.

What I do find ironic is that one group complain that their bike feels different when adjustments are made, whilst the other group are disappointed that said changes weren’t made.


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## screenman (8 Jul 2018)

What gets to me are the guys who have never had one saying it is a waste of money, how do they know.


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## Blue Hills (8 Jul 2018)

Have known a couple of folk who had them done. Neither were happy. I well remember one telling me that the bike fitter had expressed shock at his existing ride, couldn't understand how he hadn't crippled himself. I must say he always looked perfectly relaxed riding it to me. In the end he sold the bike that came out of the fit to someone else and went back to his old beast. The person who bought it said he liked it and it felt perfectly comfortable. But of course it hadn't been measured/built for him - and he if he had wandered back to the same bike fitter he may well have sucked his teeth at the torture instrument he was riding.

I went for one with the nice Mr Hewitt when buying a tourer off him.

I'm no expert but the position he put me in in the jig to make the measurements didn't feel quite right to me. Nothing dramatically wrong. Just not quite right. As I say I'm no expert but I had by that stage been riding a lot for a fair number of years. And had discovered that all my bikes, which had a variety of frame sizes and types, all measured pretty much the same on the key measurements to do with reach etc etc. I had gradually over the years adjusted them until they felt right.

The resultant bike never felt quite right.

I took it back after a while and it was adjusted. All very politely. And it is now pretty much like my other bikes in those key measurements. And a very nice bike by the way.

So I think maybe they can be useful for beginners, or folk who want to output maximum power at any cost (including irretrievably bending themselves) but not so useful for more experienced folk who have existing bikes to tinker with.

And I instinctively mistrust all systems that get you to line up the back of your knees with the tip of your nose, drop a plumb line from one of them and then divide the resultant angle by Pi and the first number you thought of or whatever.

In short, if it feels good, ride it.


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## screenman (8 Jul 2018)

For me a bike fit fixed 40 years of pain when cycling.


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## Blue Hills (8 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I wonder if some of the people offering advice on a bike fit have ever had a good one done, somehow I doubt it.


Can I be clear. Are you saying that there's a lot of folk on here who have had bike fits and found them lacking?

I thought the thread was asking for feedback/experiences.

Or don't bad ones count in the survey?

I'd also be interested in how many bike fitters tell someone that their current set up is hunky dory.

Can't help but feel that consultants of any type are loathe to tell a client that all is currently well. "Just carry on what you are doing".


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## screenman (8 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Can I be clear. Are you saying that there's a lot of folk on here who have had bike fits and found them lacking?
> 
> I thought the thread was asking for feedback/experiences.
> 
> ...



I am saying some people who have never had one or any experience of one may be offering poor advice.


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## StuAff (8 Jul 2018)

In answer to the OP, yes.

A good, properly trained bike fitter- and granted, there may well be those who are not, but there are many good ones out there- will consult the client about the type of riding they do, what they want to achieve, take into account posture & flexibility. They won't be offended about doing minor adjustments (as my Litespeed needed when it got built up at the same LBS, some years later) or answering questions. Had one done under the bikefitting.com system back in 2009. Done an awful lot of miles since then without issues.


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## boydj (8 Jul 2018)

My club organised a bike fitter with a good rep, who did a deal on cost. He dropped my saddle by a few mm and said everything else was fine, and tbh I've no complaints about that because I'm a little more comfortable than I was to start with (which wasn't causing any problems) and I have the reassurance that my fit is good (by this fitter's standards). I think the money was well spent. Some of the folks had more significant changes made, most had relatively minor tweaks. For many the biggest change was cleat position. Since most were very experienced riders, I'm not surprised that most changes were minor.

I do think that for relative newcomers or inexperienced riders a proper fit could be a revelation.


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## Blue Hills (8 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> For me a bike fit fixed 40 years of pain when cycling.


What change was made?


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## derrick (8 Jul 2018)

vickster said:


> Which is why I go to a Physio who does and understands the medical stuff unlike someone who’s done the Retul course


So your Physio knows how you ride? Does he or she ride with you?


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## bpsmith (8 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Have known a couple of folk who had them done. Neither were happy. I well remember one telling me that the bike fitter had expressed shock at his existing ride, couldn't understand how he hadn't crippled himself. I must say he always looked perfectly relaxed riding it to me. In the end he sold the bike that came out of the fit to someone else and went back to his old beast. The person who bought it said he liked it and it felt perfectly comfortable. But of course it hadn't been measured/built for him - and he if he had wandered back to the same bike fitter he may well have sucked his teeth at the torture instrument he was riding.
> 
> I went for one with the nice Mr Hewitt when buying a tourer off him.
> 
> ...


You’ve just described exactly what I posted 2 posts above yours.


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## vickster (8 Jul 2018)

derrick said:


> So your Physio knows how you ride? Does he or she ride with you?


No he doesn’t, why does that matter? He knows what msk issues I have and have had and spent a long time looking at me on the bike. Which will be how I am positioned on the bike when I ride on roads too.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> What change was made?



Saddle back and down, bars further away, down and rotated, custom inner soles, cleat adjustment.


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## Blue Hills (9 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> You’ve just described exactly what I posted 2 posts above yours.


Well maybe that most experienced folk with some bikes to fiddle with don't really need one. Some folk with particular issues may benefit from one.

Mind you my first advice for someone to feel comfortable and natural on a bike would be to give up thoughts of a tour win, enjoy the view when touring and ditch the drops


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Well maybe that most experienced folk with some bikes to fiddle with don't really need one. Some folk with particular issues may benefit from one.
> 
> Mind you my first advice for someone to feel comfortable and natural on a bike would be to give up thoughts of a tour win, enjoy the view when touring and ditch the drops



Why ditch the drops, people have been doing mega distances for years on thet. I find drops far more comfortable than straights on longer rides.


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## Blue Hills (9 Jul 2018)

Just my personal view screenman, that's all. They put me off cycling any distance for decades.

But as I say, only my personal feel.

Back to the topic.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Just my personal view screenman, that's all. They put me off cycling any distance for decades.
> 
> But as I say, only my personal feel.
> 
> Back to the topic.



Sorry, I thought you had a technical reason.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Just my personal view screenman, that's all. They put me off cycling any distance for decades.
> 
> But as I say, only my personal feel.
> 
> Back to the topic.



I am giving this some thought, maybe you did not have the setup correct.


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## mjr (9 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I am saying some people who have never had one or any experience of one may be offering poor advice.


Equally, some who have had a bike fit may be offering poor advice, perhaps because they naturally don't want to appear to be a fool soon parted from their money.


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## bpsmith (9 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Well maybe that most experienced folk with some bikes to fiddle with don't really need one. Some folk with particular issues may benefit from one.
> 
> Mind you my first advice for someone to feel comfortable and natural on a bike would be to give up thoughts of a tour win, enjoy the view when touring and ditch the drops


Experienced, as in owned/ridden bikes for x number of years, rather than an expert in how they fit your anatomy and the quirks involved.

With regards to the drop bar point, I have issues with my joints and the connective tissues in between and so my hands are most affected. Drop bars allow a lot more options as to positioning and I would likely not be cycling if I had to pick any of the straight bar bikes I tried. I know a number of people with drop bars that rarely use the drop part but need to top shape and hoods.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> Equally, some who have had a bike fit may be offering poor advice, perhaps because they naturally don't want to appear to be a fool soon parted from their money.



I think they would more likely keep quiet.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

[QUOTE 5306863, member: 45"]Maybe some riders don't feel any discomfort, have read around a lot about bike fitting and learned how to tweak themselves and have managed to get it right, and don't want to risk over £100 on something that possibly will be a waste of money.[/QUOTE]

Maybe some are the two words jumping out at me.


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## mjr (9 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I think they would more likely keep quiet.


New to Internet forums, are you?


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> New to Internet forums, are you?



Yep.


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## screenman (9 Jul 2018)

We should maybe remember the OP has a problem that he has not been able to sort out himself.


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## bpsmith (9 Jul 2018)

That’s the thing. People who post asking if bike fits are worth it, are more likely to be those that would gain from it than those posting that their years of experience and tinkering mean it’s not worth having one.

It’s almost like saying that you don’t need a bike fit, just fiddle for about 40 years and you’ll eventually get it right.


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## mjr (9 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> That’s the thing. People who post asking if bike fits are worth it, are more likely to be those that would gain from it than those posting that their years of experience and tinkering mean it’s not worth having one.
> 
> It’s almost like saying that you don’t need a bike fit, just fiddle for about 40 years and you’ll eventually get it right.


Or you could post a link to a guide encapsulating years of experience and tinkering, like teaching someone to fish instead of describing what you thought of the haddock you had from the fishmonger.


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## bpsmith (9 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> Or you could post a link to a guide encapsulating years of experience and tinkering, like teaching someone to fish instead of describing what you thought of the haddock you had from the fishmonger.


Well I don’t see any of those with the so called 40 years of tinkering actually doing that! Maybe you could ask them why?


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## mjr (9 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Well I don’t see any of those with the so called 40 years of tinkering actually doing that! Maybe you could ask them why?


Reread my comment on page 1, please.


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## bpsmith (9 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> Reread my comment on page 1, please.


No need. All I saw was a link to the homepage for the site you mentioned. Most people would link to the specific place they refer too.

There’s a few fishmongers that would argue that the fishermen aren’t automatically fishmongers due to dangling a rod over the water for longer than someone else btw.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> It’s almost like saying that you don’t need a bike fit, just fiddle for about 40 years and you’ll eventually get it right.



40 years worth of fiddling around should be time enough to get it right. Most of us have probably ridden a bike of some sort pretty much since we were old enough to walk. You soon get to know what is comfortable and what isn't, what makes you fatigued in no time, and what makes you able to ride that bike all day. As you get bigger you raise the saddle until you run out of adjustment, then get a bigger bike and repeat. By the time you stop growing you pretty much know what size and set-up works OK for you, and unless you then suffer some injury that affects your motion as an adult, I doubt your early adult bike set-up is going to change very much. I can get on a strange bike, do a quick saddle height adjust, and have a ride round the block and I know very soon whether that bike feels comfortable to me or it feels weird.


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## mjr (10 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> No need. All I saw was a link to the homepage for the site you mentioned. Most people would link to the specific place they refer too.


Link to homepage plus description of where to find the link. I'm not a big fan of linking to PDFs rather than web pages, plus I was on my phone at the time, which doesn't make copying links to PDFs easy.


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## Stef 1 (10 Jul 2018)

I found the PDF no problem - I thank you for the link! Printed it out last week. Lots of useful stuff, most I already knew about but the biggy in it for me was that whilst it discussed the KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) method, it lead me to learn about the COG method (centre of gravity) although I don't think they mention it by name. You know, the balancing comfortable without using your hands to hold yourself up. I think it makes far more sense and COG method positioning is possibly one of the most valuable things I learned... I went on to read a whole bunch of stuff about it from Steve Hogg which was useful.

By the way, I valued, read and follow all info and links posted throughout thread (well most of 'em). Both sides of the argument were useful in my decision making.

Anyway, the reason I'm here is to post an update - I wasn't even aware this thread was still rumbling onwards!

As I'd previously mentioned, I'd tweaked a bunch of stuff (seat higher, cleats forwards, new saddle, angle etc). Managed about 3.5hrs / 90km on Sunday. Back still hurt towards the end, but didn't become too noticeable until around the 3hr mark. Couldn't have gone much further, but that's a big improvement for me. I'm also wondering if it is fitness/stamina related. AS I get more tired I wonder if I sit on the saddle heavier, putting more load through my back?

Anyhow, that ride made me decide to move saddle a few millimetres higher again, and also forwards a bit (still getting used to new saddle). No issues at all on a fairly zippy 1hr ride this morning... new position felt different but good. Perhaps more powerful/direct. It's hard to describe. Looking forward to trying another long ride soon (maybe my first 100km).

So, to conclude (at least for me - as I'm sure this thread will keep on rollin') I think if I didn't at least appear to be making gains myself I would still be wondering if I should go for a bike fit. However, from my original question, the answer wasn't a definitive 'YES, get a bike fit' from a majority... there was a fairly even split. I appreciate it was worth it for some, but not so much for others. Not conclusive enough for me to go for one right now though. Possibly if I'm still struggling next year if I haven't managed to fix things further.

Thanks!


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## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> It’s almost like saying that you don’t need a bike fit, just fiddle for about 40 years and you’ll eventually get it right.





Ere, I'll have you know I haven't been fiddling around for 40 years, despite being a slow learner.

It is always possible of course that you might have a bike fit and then still fiddle for 50 years - first 10 years spent thinking you must surely be wrong because an expert told you you had to sit like so.

edit - by the by the best bit of bike fitting advice given to me came about 15 years ago from two priests in the middle of the night somewhere in Suffolk on the dynamo. Told me I had my saddle too low. The key thing is to get the saddle the right height (if you can't without excessive seat post extraction you are sitting on the wrong frame size) and then fine tune the rest, without getting the bars too low in relation to where the seat has ended up. Unless you are on one of those drop bar things of course.


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## mjr (10 Jul 2018)

As your legs tire, they support your weight less and so you sit heavier on the saddle. As stamina improves, that'll happen later and less and the bum pain reduces. This is often misinterpreted IMO as one's bum hardening up.


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## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> Maybe you should do some stretching.


?

I ride my bike for exercise and relaxation, plus popping down the shops, off to events etc. I don't think I should have to exercise before I am worthy of getting on it.

(I accept that it may be a good idea for athletic race riders but then that's a whole different game).

I'd no more consider limbering up for a bike ride than before sex.


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## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> I am giving this some thought, maybe you did not have the setup correct.


I'd relax and think about something else screenman to be honest. For me (personally) the set-up involved being head down on the drops. Wrong for me for so many reasons. But that's a personal thing/separate debate.


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## screenman (10 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I'd relax and think about something else screenman to be honest. For me (personally) the set-up involved being head down on the drops. Wrong for me for so many reasons. But that's a personal thing/separate debate.



No need to be any further down on drops than on straight.


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## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2018)

screenman said:


> No need to be any further down on drops than on straight.


separate debate screenman.


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## harrison_888 (10 Jul 2018)

Having just done my first 70miler it highlighted all the aches and pains which have laid dormant until now under fewer miles. It's interesting to note that as I progressed passed 50 miles some of the original aches and creaks began to subside - weird.
The worst of which is the lower back (common) and numbness in 1 hand (less common).
I hope a bikefit would help the lower back problem but the numbness on one side seems difficult to counter.
To the OP though it would be based on your disposable income as to whether you should go for it - you can get a pretty good idea with apps, online guides, and free expert advice on cyclechat.net but you'll only go so far.


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## harrison_888 (10 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> ?
> 
> I ride my bike for exercise and relaxation, plus popping down the shops, off to events etc. I don't think I should have to exercise before I am worthy of getting on it.
> 
> ...


I now have to limber up for sex more than I'd care to mention.


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## bpsmith (10 Jul 2018)

Good to see that the OP has at least partially resolved their issues on fit. Great that @Stef 1 can now ride more miles in more comfort. Nobody arguing there. 

I still stand by my opinion that bike fits are a good idea, albeit with some having more to gain than others.

I fail to see how someone who has set up the same sort of bike, in exactly the same way for an extended length of time, is actually qualified to resolve someone’s specific knee or hand pain by making specific changes to their bike without ever seeing them.

Yes, forums are great for helping to lead people in a certain direction, but that to me doesn’t make a bike fit absolutely pointless for every single person.

I am not trying to convince the die hards out there, just balance the argument for anyone reading these threads.


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