# Upgrade for Cannondale Caadx Tektro brakes



## Pedrosanchezo (7 Jun 2012)

Hi folks,

Own a Cannondale Caadx 2012. Bike came with Tektro canti's and to be honest the brakes don't inspire at 10mph let alone when i am approaching the 40mph mark on downhills. Time for an upgrade for the front brake at least anyway. Here is the bike spec from manufacturer:

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-caadx-5-105-21567

Background:
I am running the bike as a roadie at the moment. Dropped the bars, changed out the rear cassette for Ultegra 11-28 for a bit more top end, fitted RS-30's with Pasella tourguards and find the bike pretty much flies. The problem though is stopping. 

Anything in the Shimano range?? Also if a bike has canti's do you have to stick with that type of brake or can you use something like a Shimano calliper like the ultegra or r650 57mm??

Thanks in advance.


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## Aushiker (8 Jun 2012)

I have a Surly Long Haul Trucker which came with Tektro 992 “Oryx” brakes.







I am currently in the process of upgrading them to Avid Single Digit 7 v-brakes with Koolstop pads and Cane Creek SCR-5 levers so cannot comment on Shimano options. I am still working on the conversion so haven't put them to the test but from all my research I believe I have made the right decision.











Andrew


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

Hi Aushiker,

Thanks for the reply. The caadx comes stock with Tektro c710. It takes some serious hand power to stop at speed. The brakes are below.

http://www.cannondale.com/2012-caadx-5-105-21567

I thought of just replacing the pads with koolstop salmons or the likes but i am not overly impressed with the brakes themselves. They started off with buckets of squeal so i toed them in. That fixed the noise and helped stopping power slightly too. TBH they just appear flimsy to me. 

I have Shimano 105 5700 shifters/brake levers so everything is good there. Just need to upgrade the rim brakes. Even if just on the front to start with. Question is do i have to use canti's or do i have other options?? 

All thoughts welcome guys. Cheers.......


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Jun 2012)

V-brakes?


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

SpokeyDokey said:


> V-brakes?


What would i need to replace spokey dokey?? Is it a simple case of using the brake cables as is and fitting the correct v brakes for the bike? Apologies, i am not overly brake savy.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

actually just quickly looked up this very question (canti's for v brakes) and folk saying you would need to replace the levers too. Was hoping to keep everything the same on the bars.


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## Andrew_P (8 Jun 2012)

Not sure these would work? Looks like itmight still be a stretch http://www.cyclepremier.com/product...y=GBP&stdSID=73cc11943e5a594b68a429cdea829494


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

LOCO said:


> Not sure these would work? Looks like itmight still be a stretch http://www.cyclepremier.com/product...y=GBP&stdSID=73cc11943e5a594b68a429cdea829494


Loco, are these just a straight swap over the canti's?? I notice the calipers have one side connection for the brake cable as opposed to the centre connection on the canti's. How would one fit this?? Thanks.

Ps, I thought these would be do able also. Do you know if they would fit okay considering i run 28 tires? Would also like to run the 35's in winter/off road but if this makes for a problem them wouldn't mind. 

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...le&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom


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## lulubel (8 Jun 2012)

Side pull callipers and traditional cantis attach to the frame differently. The cantis attach either side of the wheel below the braking surface, the callipers attach on one centre mount above the wheel. It is possible to use v-brakes with road levers, but you need an adaptor that fits inline on the cable and adjusts the amount of cable pull. I read up on this a lot before building my Surly Cross Check, and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't offer any benefits over standard cantis.

I was told when I put cantis on my bike that the straddle cable should be as short as possible to give the best braking leverage, so if your brakes are set up the same as in Aushiker's photo, that might explain why you're not getting a lot of braking power.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

lulubel said:


> Side pull callipers and traditional cantis attach to the frame differently. The cantis attach either side of the wheel below the braking surface, the callipers attach on one centre mount above the wheel. It is possible to use v-brakes with road levers, but you need an adaptor that fits inline on the cable and adjusts the amount of cable pull. I read up on this a lot before building my Surly Cross Check, and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't offer any benefits over standard cantis.
> 
> I was told when I put cantis on my bike that the straddle cable should be as short as possible to give the best braking leverage, so if your brakes are set up the same as in Aushiker's photo, that might explain why you're not getting a lot of braking power.


Lulubel, so i imagine the best idea is to try a better brake pad to start with? Toeing in made a rather sizeable difference to the immediate stopping power but it feels like the surface doesn't create enough friction to slow the bike down. I assume this could be caused by naff stock brake pads. Maybe the best option then if i can't fit V's or calipers without mods.

I am a little perplexed regrading the "straddle cable" being too long. As far as i can see Aushiker's set up has the straddle cable fairly tight. How could this be bettered?? I have tweaked the brakes and improved them but i am unsure as to what you mean here. Defo up for trying anything that could help. That and new pads would be an easy fix. ;-) Thanks.


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## Davidc (8 Jun 2012)

My Dawes Horizon came with Tektro cantis, which I'd have to say were better than steel rims in the wet. Replacing the pads with Kool Stop dual compound ones (here) has greatly improved them.

They're still less effective than I'd like though, and I have seriously considered changing to dual pivot Shimano R650 or SRAM Rival caliper brakes. They'd fit, but I'd be left with the cantilever mountings. V brakes and drop bar STIs unfortunately don't mix.

If I come up with a real solution I'll post it on here!

What I'd really like to be able to do is change over to disc brakes.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Jun 2012)

Davidc said:


> My Dawes Horizon came with Tektro cantis, which I'd have to say were better than steel rims in the wet. Replacing the pads with Kool Stop dual compound ones (here) has greatly improved them.
> 
> They're still less effective than I'd like though, and I have seriously considered changing to dual pivot Shimano R650 or SRAM Rival caliper brakes. They'd fit, but I'd be left with the cantilever mountings. V brakes and drop bar STIs unfortunately don't mix.
> 
> ...


Beginning to think that there is not easy solution. ;-)
Keep me posted with any bright eurika moments then, thanks. 

Maybe upgrading the cantilevers and brake pads would make a marked difference. Something a bit more proven like...

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/brr550-cantilever-brake-ec006280

Relatively cheap upgrade but would it make for a better braking system compared to the stock Tektro? I have it adjusted pretty well i think with it pretty well tensioned and plenty of bite when the brakes are applied. Brakes just don't seem to have the power to stop the bike. In fact it had horrible front brake judder from new. That's fixed now though:-/


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## lulubel (9 Jun 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I am a little perplexed regrading the "straddle cable" being too long. As far as i can see Aushiker's set up has the straddle cable fairly tight. How could this be bettered?? I have tweaked the brakes and improved them but i am unsure as to what you mean here. Defo up for trying anything that could help. That and new pads would be an easy fix. ;-) Thanks.


 
I've set mine up with the main brake cable longer, so the straddle cable runs straighter and sits closer to the top of the tyre (and so is shorter). Mine is about 2-3cm from the tyre. I think this improves leverage because it takes less pull on the main cable to take in enough straddle cable to bring the pads against the rims, and presumably you don't have to squeeze the levers so hard to apply pressure. Hopefully that makes sense. (I can't take photos at the moment, or I'd take one to show you.)

My brakes are OK. They're not as snappy as the Vs on my MTB, but I don't think they're any worse than the callipers on my old road bike. Of course, this could be helped by the fact that I only weigh 7st5, so there isn't much weight to stop.


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2012)

lulubel said:


> I've set mine up with the main brake cable longer, so the straddle cable runs straighter and sits closer to the top of the tyre (and so is shorter). Mine is about 2-3cm from the tyre. I think this improves leverage because it takes less pull on the main cable to take in enough straddle cable to bring the pads against the rims, and presumably you don't have to squeeze the levers so hard to apply pressure. Hopefully that makes sense. (I can't take photos at the moment, or I'd take one to show you.)
> 
> My brakes are OK. They're not as snappy as the Vs on my MTB, but I don't think they're any worse than the callipers on my old road bike. Of course, this could be helped by the fact that I only weigh 7st5, so there isn't much weight to stop.


I think in know what you mean Lulubel. I'll give a try. I do have the brakes set pretty well just now with minimum play at the levers. Any pull at all and you are moving the brakes. I gather this can only be improved by shortening the straddle cable. I assume you end up with more cable hanging loose at the side of the brakes?? Am i on the right frame of mind here?


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## lulubel (9 Jun 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I assume you end up with more cable hanging loose at the side of the brakes?? Am i on the right frame of mind here?


 
Yes. And once you've got them how you want them, and you're sure you want want a longer cable again, you cut the end off the straddle cable, and put a new crimp thingy on it.


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2012)

lulubel said:


> Yes. And once you've got them how you want them, and you're sure you want want a longer cable again, you cut the end off the straddle cable, and put a new crimp thingy on it.


Thanks Lulubel i will try this before tomorrows outing. :-)


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## Andrew_P (9 Jun 2012)

Thinking about it the eyelets for the caliper brakes are probably not designed to take the braking force and are only there for mudguards. So wouldn't advise even trying without speaking to Cannondale.

Have you looked at Travel Agent? For Canti or maybe V Brake? http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/problem-solvers-in-line-travel-agent-prod23360/


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2012)

LOCO said:


> Thinking about it the eyelets for the caliper brakes are probably not designed to take the braking force and are only there for mudguards. So wouldn't advise even trying without speaking to Cannondale.
> 
> Have you looked at Travel Agent? For Canti or maybe V Brake? http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/problem-solvers-in-line-travel-agent-prod23360/


HI Loco, have heard of travel agent but will have to do some homework to see if it's what i am after. Sounds like it could be a plan so will take a peek. Defo thinking that sticking with the bikes original brake plan is the way forward. As in stick with Canti's and plan on making them as effective as possible.


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## RecordAceFromNew (9 Jun 2012)

Looking at the shape of the Tektro c710, unless you have lousy compressible brake cable housing or a flexi hanger, shortening the straddle wire to as close as you could towards the tyre* as Lulubel said WILL significantly improve the braking power. The only exception where this might not help much is where the pivot/boss and the cable attachment point on the leg are practically on a level horizontally on some super-wide frog legs.

* allowing for mud or mudguard clearance and nothing else


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Looking at the shape of the Tektro c710, unless you have lousy compressible brake cable housing or a flexi hanger, shortening the straddle wire to as close as you could towards the tyre* as Lulubel said WILL significantly improve the braking power. The only exception where this might not help much is where the pivot/boss and the cable attachment point on the leg are practically on a level horizontally on some super-wide frog legs.
> 
> * allowing for mud or mudguard clearance and nothing else


Defo going to try this. Once i have it right and correctly tensioned i will then know if the brakes are up to the job. If they are as near as dammit then i will likely only need to upgrade the actual pad to squeeze out a little extra bite. Feeling confident this might be the case as the straddle cable is defo high off the tire. 
On a side note i fitted Shim RS30's to the bike and the brakes are a good deal better. I put this down to a better braking surface and a wheel that doesn't go out of true every time i come within 2 miles of a pot hole. The original wheels were Maddux drx 6000. They weighed over 3000grams too so the bike it notably lighter too. :-)


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

Hi, sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but I was wondering how you got on with this, and particularly how you solved the initial front brake judder. I just got this bike last Thursday and almost went into a truck this morning that pulled out in front of me thanks to the utterly ineffective braking but particularly the horrible judder on the front! Never known anything like it.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Apr 2013)

Hey Choddo, 

If it's still under warranty then i'd be keen to take the issue to your dealer. If not then here is what i found works...........

The stock pads are terrible. replaced them with Kool stops. Toe them in slightly which should kill any squeal and juddering. (note though that the juddering could be from a slightly out of true wheel). 
The straddle cable is set pretty high on the Caadx. On mine it was about 3 inches above the tyre. Reset the straddle height to as close as possible to the tyre (allowing for any mudguard clearance etc). Maybe about an inch above the tyre should be fine to provide clearance for any off road grime that gets stuck on the tyre. 
I set mines to approx this height and swap wheelsets often for use on road, turbo and off road. All different tyre thicknesses. 

Bottom line is the braking was vastly improved but it is never going to be as good as a decent road bike setup. Canti's on CX bikes though are a necessary evil.


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

Thanks - that's very helpful, I'll talk to the dealer in the first instance then. I certainly have some slack to move the straddle cable lower, even after fitting mudguards. Think I will order some new pads anyway, on the assumption that the dealer will only make limited progress!


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Apr 2013)

No probs. Just tell the dealer that the brakes make you feel like you are going to die sometime soon. That should get something done about it.


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> Thanks - that's very helpful, I'll talk to the dealer in the first instance then. I certainly have some slack to move the straddle cable lower, even after fitting mudguards. Think I will order some new pads anyway, on the assumption that the dealer will only make limited progress!


 
Rip the canti's off and replace with TRP CX9 mini-v's or the Tektro alternatives. Check that your levers are compatible with mini-v's.

If you go down the TRP route take the stock road cartridges off and replace with v-brake cartridges - I use Ashima 4 Function.

You will banish shudder and enjoy silent rides thereafter.

Canti's are the Devils Spawn!


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Apr 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Rip the canti's off and replace with TRP CX9 mini-v's or the Tektro alternatives. Check that your levers are compatible with mini-v's.
> 
> If you go down the TRP route take the stock road cartridges off and replace with v-brake cartridges - I use Ashima 4 Function.
> 
> ...


Could be good if you use the cx bike as a road or tourer. I use mine for a variety of uses, including off road, which basically means sticking with the canti's for superior clearance. The Mini v's need to be run pretty close to the rim which would make constant wheel changing a midden.


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

Got 105 shifters, which I think means they're not compatible with mini-Vs out of the box? Or that at least, you get very little rim clearance. That might be ok actually. I won't be doing much off-roading, just trail, towpath.

Well the dealer was a waste of an hour. Actually told me to go down there to take a look, then when I got there they said a colleague had had the same problem and Cannondale had just said "tough". Brilliant. Couldn't you have told me that on the phone? To compound the insult, they forgot to put my saddle bag back on and just told me I'll have to pay for postage for them to send it to me. That's customer service.

So... the options seem to be;
1. toe in the pads - not sure how you do that with these brakes but I've read that it works. Must make the braking more gradual.
2. Get new, better pads. I'll do this
3. Add a fork mounted hanger to reduce the length of cable that can stretch. Rumoured to fix it.
4. Fit mini-Vs. I think I'd rather do this than 3.


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

Oh toeing in seems to be a manual "stick something like a bit of card in the back of the pad" approach? Fair enough.


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> Oh toeing in seems to be a manual "stick something like a bit of card in the back of the pad" approach? Fair enough.


 
The TRP CX9's are about £80 but budget for different cartridges.

The Tektro RX6's are the same arm length (90mm) as the CX9's and are just as good by all accounts.

My CX9's do run close to the rim - about a credit card gap either side although they could go a tad wider. They are much more powerful than any canti I have tried (Ritchey/Avid/Dia Compe).

Contrary to what you may read on the web they are very progressive and certainly with a fairly hard Ashima pad they do not grab etc.

Also even with pulling my 105 levers _very_ hard they are still nicely clear of the bars.

Zero shudder, zero noise - wonderful.

Good luck whatever route you go down.


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## jdtate101 (8 Apr 2013)

I've got a CAADX6 and the tektro 520's and yes they aren't great, but I recently put some Clarkes pads on them (triple compound) and they are much improved. I have also tweaked the straddle wire lower to provide more mechanical force. They are no-where near as good as callipers, but vastly improved over the situation when they came new.


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

How do you fix the cable to drop down on the pull side of the V brakes instead of the centre on the cantis?


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## jdtate101 (8 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> How do you fix the cable to drop down on the pull side of the V brakes instead of the centre on the cantis?


There was 3 things I ended up having to do:

1) Release a bit more cable run to the straddle junction so it was physically lower.

2) Reduce the amount of cable in the cross cable via the end clamp (you also have to undo the small nuts in the cross piece to do this. It's also worth centring the cable by feel to avoid brake rub.....

3) Tighten the spring tension screws on the brake arms to max to keep the pads away from the rims.

With canti's it's very much a trial and error process and they do need constant adjustment as the pads wear, but the braking performance is greatly increased over the stock setup.


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> There was 3 things I ended up having to do:
> 
> 1) Release a bit more cable run to the straddle junction so it was physically lower.
> 
> ...


 
Are you both talking about the same thing here?


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## choddo (8 Apr 2013)

No  but I did know what he meant - he's talking about if I wanted to reduce the straddle cable length.


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> How do you fix the cable to drop down on the pull side of the V brakes instead of the centre on the cantis?


 
The canti' hangers are redundant. Remove both if you want/can.

Then re-cable from scratch - no hangers involved.

Front cable will go direct from lever to brake.

Rear cable will run from the rear stop on the top tube (I think that is how a CAADX runs) straight to the brake.

Brakes will be supplied with noodles so that the cables run into the brakes smoothly.

If you have interrupters they will have adjusters to trim the brakes. If not either put some inline or the TRP's now come with adjusters on the noodles as standard.


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> No  but I did know what he meant - he's talking about if I wanted to reduce the straddle cable length.


 
Life / women / forums - confusing!


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## User6179 (8 Apr 2013)

Changeing the pads and adjusting them right made the braking ok on my caadx, I think the rims dont help and if I was going to spend money now on improving the braking the wheels are where I would start.


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## jdtate101 (9 Apr 2013)

Eddy said:


> Changeing the pads and adjusting them right made the braking ok on my caadx, I think the rims dont help and if I was going to spend money now on improving the braking the wheels are where I would start.


 
I also found the braking much improved with different wheels. I changed mine because the formula hub on the rear ceased solid after a cross race, all the bearings shattered and after a bit of research it would cost about the same for a new wheel as to buy a new hub and re-lace. I got some RS10's which have been both strong and durable (I already had a spare rear RS10 as a turbo trainer wheel, so just needed to buy a front one.)


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## User6179 (9 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> I also found the braking much improved with different wheels. I changed mine because the formula hub on the rear ceased solid after a cross race, all the bearings shattered and after a bit of research it would cost about the same for a new wheel as to buy a new hub and re-lace. I got some RS10's which have been both strong and durable (I already had a spare rear RS10 as a turbo trainer wheel, so just needed to buy a front one.)


 
The wheels are terrible , snapped 4 spokes and constantly trueing them ,they should not have 34c tyre on them either as the rim is to narrow , will be getting a new set of wheels myself shortly .


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## choddo (9 Apr 2013)

Eddy said:


> The wheels are terrible , snapped 4 spokes and constantly trueing them ,they should not have 34c tyre on them either as the rim is to narrow , will be getting a new set of wheels myself shortly .


The 2013 has got 35s on them! And they do say they'll go down to 23. I thought that was a bit of an extreme range.


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## User6179 (10 Apr 2013)

choddo said:


> The 2013 has got 35s on them! And they do say they'll go down to 23. I thought that was a bit of an extreme range.


 
Might of been 35s on mine ,they will take a 23 as they are narrower than my fulcrum 5s .


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## jdtate101 (10 Apr 2013)

Eddy said:


> The wheels are terrible , snapped 4 spokes and constantly trueing them ,they should not have 34c tyre on them either as the rim is to narrow , will be getting a new set of wheels myself shortly .


 
Yeah, I think I broke about 6 spokes before the hub gave in. It was always at the nipple end, sometimes event the nipple itself would fail. Despite them being 32h, as soon as one spoke went the wheel would go far out of true making it practically unrideable. God help you if it happened far from home.


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## User6179 (10 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Yeah, I think I broke about 6 spokes before the hub gave in. It was always at the nipple end, sometimes event the nipple itself would fail. Despite them being 32h, as soon as one spoke went the wheel would go far out of true making it practically unrideable. God help you if it happened far from home.


 
Mine all snapped at the hub on non drive side and i had put 25c tyres on so even though one time I was 30 miles from home the clearance with the 25c tyre ment I could cycle home no problem.


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## BORIS397 (23 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> I've got a CAADX6 and the tektro 520's and yes they aren't great, but I recently put some Clarkes pads on them (triple compound) and they are much improved. I have also tweaked the straddle wire lower to provide more mechanical force. They are no-where near as good as callipers, but vastly improved over the situation when they came new.


 
Hiya people a newbie CaadX (2010) owner here - I'm having loads of trouble stopping with stock Tektro CR720 cantis... I was interested to see if anyone had any better recommmendations of pads cos the standard 420.11 cartridge pads are rubbish. What are these Clarkes pads you recommend?.. are they 55mm like the Tektros? Or are they like those on wiggle listed as 72mm. Thank you. This is darn confusing as there are several Tektro canti's about e.g. new CaadX's have CR710 on them.
Cheers
Simon
PS I have Duraace 1380 wheels (alu rim, carbon elsewhere) if that makes any difference. I am going like the clappers at the moment and can't stop!
PPS Heard a few mention Koolstop but which ones? I'd like the best stoppers poss.


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Apr 2013)

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/kool-stop-dura2-pair-of-cartridge-inserts/


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## BORIS397 (23 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/kool-stop-dura2-pair-of-cartridge-inserts/


Thanks Pedro; I think I will give the Salmons a go if they're the best suited


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## jdtate101 (23 Apr 2013)

BORIS397 said:


> Hiya people a newbie CaadX (2010) owner here - I'm having loads of trouble stopping with stock Tektro CR720 cantis... I was interested to see if anyone had any better recommmendations of pads cos the standard 420.11 cartridge pads are rubbish. What are these Clarkes pads you recommend?.. are they 55mm like the Tektros? Or are they like those on wiggle listed as 72mm. Thank you. This is darn confusing as there are several Tektro canti's about e.g. new CaadX's have CR710 on them.
> Cheers
> Simon
> PS I have Duraace 1380 wheels (alu rim, carbon elsewhere) if that makes any difference. I am going like the clappers at the moment and can't stop!
> PPS Heard a few mention Koolstop but which ones? I'd like the best stoppers poss.


 
The clarks ones I have are 72mm (which sometime makes getting the wheel out a bit tricky). They are the triple compound ones and seem to work quite well. I recently did the HONC and they stopped the bike well on downhill full on muddy trails, so that's good enough for me.


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## choddo (30 Jul 2013)

Hi again!

Well I put up with the apalling front brakes for a long time because most of my commute ride was on the flat so it wasn't too much of a problem. I couldn't go with the miniVs and still fit my guards on (canal towpath to work is just mud in places and I don't want to get caked). So today I finally had a fork hanger fitted (got it from Edinburgh bicycle cooperative) instead of the headset hanger and it has made a fantastic improvement. No judder whatsoever, almost no squeaking. I think they toed them in a bit too, which I had tried and failed to do a decent job of.

Still think I should have got the Ultegra disc version (even at +£400 ) but at least now I won't be thinking how much I hate it on every single ride!

Might even be able to go back on some trails without being embarassed at the noise.

And this is why the fork crown hanger works; http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...l-qa-with-lennard-zinn-return-to-cross_101807

Toodles!


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