# Blinkered parking!



## Sandra6 (1 Feb 2017)

Why is it then when somebody is parking they lose sight of everything other than their parking spot?! 
I stopped off at a friends on the way home, when I was leaving I rolled my bike across the pavement to the dropped kerb to join the road, just as a car pulled in. 
He passed, so I moved forward just as he decided to reverse ! He then back and forwarded a few times before stopping slap bang in front of me. Why?! He doesn't even live there!!! 
Just round the corner from my house I am cycling down the cul de sac as a guy drives in on the wrong side of the road, and is most put out at having to go round me before he can pull in at his house!!! I am judging the level of "put out-ness" by the length of time he drove towards me for before finally stopping and realising I wasn't going to disappear!


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## Drago (1 Feb 2017)

So did he park across a drop kerb?


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## Phaeton (1 Feb 2017)

There seems a need around where I live to park a car facing the wrong way, as in against the traffic, then put their lights on full beam as they pull away completely blinding you.


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## fossyant (1 Feb 2017)

You have to park as near as possible to where you are going you know.

There are weird folk that park out of the way and are happy to use their legs.


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## I like Skol (1 Feb 2017)

Don't get me started! The parking outside my youngest son's school is atrocious. Apart from the fact that a large proportion of them drive from within less than half a mile on the same estate, the actual parking is surely the product of a five year old. They crowd to park as close to the gates as possible, parking on the kerb, across driveways, on bends, churning the grass verge into mush in winter. How the nearby home owners cope with it I don't know? If it was me being parked in on my own drive and witnessing people wantonly vandalising the previously neatly manicured grass verge that I had spent the entire summer repairing from the last winter's abuse I think I would be out there with a baseball bat showing them a piece of my mind!
The other infuriating thing they do is selfishly parking across multiple spaces. A parking bay that will easily fit 3 cars lengthways will often have only 2 small cars parked because the owners are parked half a car length from the end of the layby, what's that all about?


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Feb 2017)

Walking to the local shop last Saturday, I noted a car parked completely in the middle of the pavement, passenger door directly opposite shop door. The shop has double yellow lines outside it and so this lazy **** decided to use the entire pavement and park as close as possible to the shop, presumably, to save a few moments walk from the parking spaces available a few yards further on. Good lord!..the inconvenience of walking 50 yards for some people!. Staggeringly lazy.

Anyone notice how 'normal' it is nowadays, for some drivers to automatically half mount the pavement while parking?.


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## cyberknight (1 Feb 2017)

Guy pulled across onto my side of the road so he could reverse into his drive yesterday , missed me by maybe 3-4 foot so i shouted a warning, he then chased me down the street nearly knocking me off twice .
Got out the car a good 6 " taller than me giving it large so i stood my ground and told him what i thought of his driving, g*y lycra tw*t is the best he could come back with .


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## ufkacbln (1 Feb 2017)

We have issues with the local School's car boot sale

There is a massive and empty car park,yet every inch of pavement,verge and grass area adjacent is used as a car park


The last straw was when a neighbour could not get an ambulance due to the parking

The following week the Police had s presence and classically a driver "tooted" at a Constable so they could drive along the pavement to park on the verge

Over 60 tickets were issued in the first week

It is still an issue that has improved, but not been solved 

We are now looking at whether the presently unlicensed CBS actually needs licensing as a market due to its size


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## GlenBen (2 Feb 2017)

I love car parking discussions. 

Can we have pictures too please?


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## Drago (2 Feb 2017)

The problem from a policing perspective is that with parking de-regulation most parts of the country have seen powers devolved from the police to the local authorities. In most parts of the country the police can only deal with "obstruction" offences (and it has to be an actual obstruction, not a "fire engine might want to get down there one day" job), or "dangerous position" offences. The usual rubbish that simply makes life annoying or awkward such as abusing double yellows, 2 wheels up on the kerb, parking across pedestrian dropped kerbs etc are largely beyond the powers of the dibble in a large number of areas.

In the olde days people used to moan about police traffic wardens - now they're gone people moan about the parking chaos instead. Go figure.


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## Freds Dad (2 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Don't get me started! The parking outside my youngest son's school is atrocious. Apart from the fact that a large proportion of them drive from within less than half a mile on the same estate, the actual parking is surely the product of a five year old. They crowd to park as close to the gates as possible, parking on the kerb, across driveways, on bends, churning the grass verge into mush in winter. How the nearby home owners cope with it I don't know? If it was me being parked in on my own drive and witnessing people wantonly vandalising the previously neatly manicured grass verge that I had spent the entire summer repairing from the last winter's abuse I think I would be out there with a baseball bat showing them a piece of my mind!
> The other infuriating thing they do is selfishly parking across multiple spaces. A parking bay that will easily fit 3 cars lengthways will often have only 2 small cars parked because the owners are parked half a car length from the end of the layby, what's that all about?



Is it mainly mum's picking the kids up?


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## I like Skol (2 Feb 2017)

Freds Dad said:


> Is it mainly mum's picking the kids up?


No, why?


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## smutchin (2 Feb 2017)

GlenBen said:


> Can we have pictures too please?









This was in Tesco's car park in Whitstable on Sunday. With a huge car park at his disposal, Mr unhelpful decides to leave his car blocking the main in/out road - hazard lights on and engine running, of course - while he uses the cash machine. Must have saved himself all of 20m extra walking.

I was tempted to take his keys and drop them in the drain but when I saw the size of the bastard, I'm glad I didn't.


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## Drago (2 Feb 2017)

Cos he likes Yummy Mummies.


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## ufkacbln (2 Feb 2017)

Tescos at North Harbour is always fun....

We were parking when a middle aged couple drove their 4x4 into the disabled space we were reversing into

Left it parked diagonally and went into shop.... no blue badge

Had a word with the "Security" and they took us to customer reception who were very helpful

" Would the owner of Range Rover **** *** that has been abandoned in the disabled bay please remove the vehicle immediately"


No response

"Would the owner of Range Rover **** *** that is inconsiderately blocking a disabled bay please remove the vehicle"

At which point an almost apoplectic middle aged man starts demanding why his vehicle is being announced in such a way

Quick explanation from Security and he storms off to move the vehicle


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## I like Skol (2 Feb 2017)

Freds Dad said:


> Is it mainly mum's picking the kids up?





I like Skol said:


> No, why?





Drago said:


> Cos he likes Yummy Mummies.


OK, I thought he was trying to suggest that stupid, ignorant and selfish parking was an activity restricted to just one of the sexes. I can confirm it is certainly not, not by a long way.


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## Sandra6 (2 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> So did he park across a drop kerb?


His boot end was over the drop which is actually my friend's driveway.


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## captain nemo1701 (3 Feb 2017)

This is Castle Park in Bristol. A few years ago, the council finished landscaping this area. Almost immediately, motorists started using it as a free all day car park. Behind the white van, they rutted the new turf. They drive up the dropped kerb and line up along the pavement, even going as far along to be behind the bus stop.






Last year I was walking through here with my bike when a bloke drove up the kerb towards me. I refused to move, so he went around me and had the window down. Here is what the conversation went like:
ME: I’m sorry, this is a pedestrian area, and you can’t park here.
DRIVER: Yes I can, I’m a resident and I have a permit (_obvious lie_).
ME: This is not a residential area. There are no permits.
DRIVER: F*** Off
So off I went to find some police officer/parking warden (unsuccessfully) but by the time I returned, he’d gone. I think wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat probably told him he was being a complete T***er.
What gets my hackles up is the fact that some people drive around in £20,000 cars but don’t want to pay something like £3/hour parking. And they’re probably the same ones who moan about cyclists on pavements. But when it comes to parking for free.......


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## Dogtrousers (3 Feb 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> "Would the owner of Range Rover **** *** that is inconsiderately blocking a disabled bay please remove the vehicle"


Ah, it's the registration number. I see.

I was trying to work out what obscenities they had been announcing.


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## snorri (3 Feb 2017)

It's easier to cycle on the road in one small town near me. The pavement is like an obstacle course with abandoned cars and wheelie bins


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## jarlrmai (3 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> View attachment 335838
> 
> 
> This was in Tesco's car park in Whitstable on Sunday. With a huge car park at his disposal, Mr Melonfarmer decides to leave his car blocking the main in/out road - hazard lights on and engine running, of course - while he uses the cash machine. Must have saved himself all of 20m extra walking.
> ...



This photo is basically suburban Britain summed up.


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## PeteXXX (3 Feb 2017)

I once saw someone actually _not_ parking on the road outside a village shop, due to snow and ice build-up at the kerbside.
He, considerately, drove into the unused 'car park' beside the store that was covered in an even layer of virgin snow.

It was the duckpond


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## mustang1 (3 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> So did he park across a drop kerb?


What's the deal with dropped kerbs these days? I thought the rule was if they kerb isn't dropped, then even if theres a driveway, you can still park there. But these days I see loads of houses that do not have dropped kerbs but because cars have such large tires, they don't really need the dropped kerbs any more to park in the driveway.


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## Drago (3 Feb 2017)

PeteXXX said:


> I once saw someone actually _not_ parking on the road outside a village shop, due to snow and ice build-up at the kerbside.
> He, considerately, drove into the unused 'car park' beside the store that was covered in an even layer of virgin snow.
> 
> It was the duckpond



Much like this...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8242EC3601ADD81300428242EC3601ADD81&FORM=VIRE


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## simongt (3 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> I was tempted to take his keys and drop them in the drain but when I saw the size of the bastard, I'm glad I didn't.


My eldest son, who is not a wee lad wouldn't have had a problem doing just that - !


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## Drago (3 Feb 2017)

We should have laws like Japan. No, not the one that allows the sale of soiled schoolgirls knickers from vending machines, but the one that won't grant you a permit to register, and thus drive, a car until you can prove you've got off road parking. No permit, then you can only have a tiny Kei car.


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## smutchin (3 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> We should have laws like Japan. No, not the one that allows the sale of soiled schoolgirls knickers from vending machines, but the one that won't grant you a permit to register, and thus drive, a car until you can prove you've got off road parking. No permit, then you can only have a tiny Kei car.



Totally on board with this idea. My home town is essentially a bloody great car park these days. Actually using the roads to get about the place rather than just somewhere to store your vehicle has become extremely difficult.


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## PeteXXX (3 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Much like this...
> 
> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=range+rover+snow+pomd+site:youtube.com&view=detail&mid=300428242EC3601ADD81300428242EC3601ADD81&FORM=VIRE


Yep.


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## Drago (3 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> Totally on board with this idea. My home town is essentially a bloody great car park these days. Actually using the roads to get about the place rather than just somewhere to store your vehicle has become extremely difficult.


Ideedy. Roads are for driving on. Paths are for walking on. Neither are intended for parking on (marked parking bays excepted, of course).

First thing I ask myself every time I've bought or rented a house, is "where will I park my car?" Dumping it in the road and inflicting it upon the rest of society has never been an option.


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## Profpointy (3 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Ideedy. Roads are for driving on. Paths are for walking on. Neither are intended for parking on (marked parking bays excepted, of course).
> 
> First thing I ask myself every time I've bought or rented a house, is "where will I park my car?" Dumping it in the road and inflicting it upon the rest of society has never been an option.



Stop people in cities from having cars parked on the street freeing up the streets for responsible people who have drives to park when they drive into town to work. Oh, hang on....


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## keithmac (3 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Don't get me started! The parking outside my youngest son's school is atrocious. Apart from the fact that a large proportion of them drive from within less than half a mile on the same estate, the actual parking is surely the product of a five year old. They crowd to park as close to the gates as possible, parking on the kerb, across driveways, on bends, churning the grass verge into mush in winter. How the nearby home owners cope with it I don't know? If it was me being parked in on my own drive and witnessing people wantonly vandalising the previously neatly manicured grass verge that I had spent the entire summer repairing from the last winter's abuse I think I would be out there with a baseball bat showing them a piece of my mind!
> The other infuriating thing they do is selfishly parking across multiple spaces. A parking bay that will easily fit 3 cars lengthways will often have only 2 small cars parked because the owners are parked half a car length from the end of the layby, what's that all about?



We have a 5 minute walk to school with the kids, I've seen a person over the road spend 10/15 minutes de-icing the car to drive round the corner, fight for a space and drive home again..

I was looking at a house to buy on the school road but just couldn't put up with people abandoning their cars across the drive and verges. God knows how they put up with it!.

I spoke to one chap on the front, there was a people carrier parked ON his drive, he couldn't get his car out for work. Needless to say he was livid and rightly so, worst thing was it was my next door neighbour who had abandoned it, lazy barstewards..


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## Drago (3 Feb 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Stop people in cities from having cars parked on the street freeing up the streets for responsible people who have drives to park when they drive into town to work. Oh, hang on....


Stop them parking on the street for work too, or charge them extra road tax for doing so. 

My parking problem is mine - not societies.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (3 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> We should have laws like Japan. No, not the one that allows the sale of soiled schoolgirls knickers from vending machines, but the one that won't grant you a permit to register, and thus drive, a car until you can prove you've got off road parking. No permit, then you can only have a tiny Kei car.



Well, you USED to be able to rent a council garage but that was when every household didn't have a car, nevermind several. And even since then, garages have been demolished, not built. But society has been structured around car ownership as being necessary for many. And should it be a privilege only afforded to those based upon wealth?

It's still possible to park responsibly, the problem is more one of some people being d***heads


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## Drago (3 Feb 2017)

It should be a privilege afforded to those who are prepared to behave like sensible adults, and not inflict their vehicle unnecessarily upon society.

Wealth is another matter. Like it or not, we live in a capitalist society where all sorts of nice things are only afforded to those with wealth. Considering the financial, environmental and health cost to society cars are far too cheap to run.


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## si_c (4 Feb 2017)

Sometimes I wonder why cash strapped councils don't simply employ more parking wardens.


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## Saluki (5 Feb 2017)

I did have someone once park half on the road and half on the pavement right across the front of my drive, technically still on double yellows. I asked him (and it was a 'him') to please move so that I could get out of my drive. He gave me a mouthful of abuse and called me several names, including the C word, which put my back right up. I told him that if he didn't shift his vehicle I would be moving it for me. He scoffed at me and walked off. After 5 or 6 minutes, he was not back so I opened my big side gates, behind which was my little wee car and calmly, and slowly drove down my drive, into the side of his and simply pushed it out of my way and into the middle of the road. Then I went my merry way into work.
My little wee car might not have been that wee, now I think of it. Although I did have a Smart Car as well as my rather lovely Disco.

Had he moved his car and not called me the C word, I might not have gently moved his car into the middle of the road. Apparently, the good folks at the car sales garage next door told me, he was not happy 

We once had someone decided to park in our drive one morning. No idea why. Couldn't see or find them. Same treatment.


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## captain nemo1701 (6 Feb 2017)

_We once had someone decided to park in our drive one morning. No idea why. Couldn't see or find them. Same treatment._
I once opened my curtains to see a lady parking in my drive. I was about to open the front door and politely ask what she was doing when my neighbour came out and said she had the wrong drive. She reversed out and parked on the road nearby. Innocent mistake, I suppose.


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## captain nemo1701 (6 Feb 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> This photo is basically suburban Britain summed up.


 I was once in a local shop that had long parking area in front of it. It was big enough for an aircraft carrier. If you parked in it, you would be about...oooh..3m away from a shop door. You only have to walk over a pavement. Imagine my surprise one time when emerging from the shop, I saw a car _driving down the_ _pavement_ so that the driver was directly opposite the shop door, about 1m away. Some people are just so fe**ing lazy....


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## Drago (6 Feb 2017)

Form some reason they won't park in my driveway.


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## Lonestar (6 Feb 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Stop people in cities from having cars <snip>



FTFY.


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## smutchin (6 Feb 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> But society has been structured around car ownership as being necessary for many.



That's a chicken/egg thing, isn't it? People have got used to private car ownership (largely thanks to the cost of car ownership being made artificially cheap) and so have come to expect it as a right. At the same time, public transport has been degraded.



> And should it be a privilege only afforded to those based upon wealth?



If people had to pay the true cost of car ownership, very few would be able to afford it.

You might also ask is it fair that those who don't own cars are expected to effectively subsidise car ownership for those who do?

Something really does need to be done about the blight of cars on our society. The current situation is unsustainable in the long run.


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## captain nemo1701 (7 Feb 2017)

Further to my earlier post, here's the shops with said parking bay and the red line shows the route that the driver took. I should add that he was neither elderly or disabled, just really, really lazy in saving himself about 2m of walking!.


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## si_c (7 Feb 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Further to my earlier post, here's the shops with said parking bay and the red line shows the route that the driver took. I should add that he was neither elderly or disabled, just really, really lazy in saving himself about 2m of walking!


Some people are just asking to have their tyres let down.


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## Drago (7 Feb 2017)

Good grief, looks a bit rough there.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (7 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> That's a chicken/egg thing, isn't it? People have got used to private car ownership (largely thanks to the cost of car ownership being made artificially cheap) and so have come to expect it as a right. At the same time, public transport has been degraded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree.

Point is you can't just "ban cars", there have to be a lot more changes including reworking public transport...and there would be a lot of very difficult and powerful opposition

Ideally we would go back to the days when buses were regular, affordable and not packed so full by half way into town that the first bus drives straight past your stop already full to capacity. That cars weren't banned but no family needed (or _thought_ that they needed) more than one. Growing up, our car was kept in a rented garage and was used occasionally. Never for grocery shopping and was sometimes taken for a few miles drive just to give it a run. And certainly never to drop me off at school...back then a parent dropping you off would have been the height of shame, even worse than accidentally calling the teacher "mum". We shopped at a "supermarket" that seemed huge but would look laughably tiny now - and it didn't have a car park.

I can't see the likes of The Lord Sainsbury ever voting in favour of smaller independent supermarkets that don't have a car park though....and whilst they and the retail parks keep springing up in locations ill-served by public transport, my point is it's unfair to single the less affluent car owner out to beat.

But people also have to get out of the habit. I was in the habit..I used to drive the 1/2 mile to the local shop once. Suggesting people wheel a shopping trolley back from a local supermarket (or on a bus as we did when Tesco first opened out of town) now would be viewed as some kind of extreme trial - which of course it's not.


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## Blue Hills (7 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Good grief, looks a bit rough there.


???


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## Blue Hills (7 Feb 2017)

You folk would really blow a gasket if you lived in Italy - home of couldn't give a shoot <ah the cchat robot's charming efforts to protect our innocent minds>> parking. Parking on zebras is minor league compared to some of the stuff you see.


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## captain nemo1701 (8 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Good grief, looks a bit rough there.


It's on a road leading up to a certain suburb of Bristol that 'inspired' Vicky Pollard.


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## smutchin (8 Feb 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> back then a parent dropping you off would have been the height of shame, even worse than accidentally calling the teacher "mum".







> I can't see the likes of The Lord Sainsbury ever voting in favour of smaller independent supermarkets that don't have a car park though....and whilst they and the retail parks keep springing up in locations ill-served by public transport, my point is it's unfair to single the less affluent car owner out to beat.



Huge free car parks are another bugbear - supermarkets don't pay the going rate for the land and it gives them an unfair commercial advantage. 'Free' car parks should be taxed heavily to reflect their true cost to society.

None of this is 'singling out' anyone. It's unfortunate that any punitive taxation on private cars is necessarily regressive but it is necessary for the long-term functioning of society. And it can be implemented as part of a progressive policy to improve public transport and cycling facilities designed to make it easier for people to ditch the car.

People are driving cars they can't afford, and that's not good for anyone in the long run.



> But people also have to get out of the habit. I was in the habit..I used to drive the 1/2 mile to the local shop once. Suggesting people wheel a shopping trolley back from a local supermarket (or on a bus as we did when Tesco first opened out of town) now would be viewed as some kind of extreme trial - which of course it's not.



Yep, hence the moronic selfish parking you regularly witness in my local Tesco car park.


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## Drago (8 Feb 2017)

Why drive to Tesco when they'll deliver for free, or for a nominal fee?


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## Sixmile (8 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> People are driving cars they can't afford, and that's not good for anyone in the long run.


 
This is crazy but so true. Some folk just need to give the pretence of wealth though for their own ego. I just can't get my head around that some people would pay £300 or £400 a month for something like an Astra which they'll not even own at the end of a few years.

On supermarket parking, don't even start. It's just an accumulation of the most selfish people where the 'me first' mentality is in overdrive.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2017)

Street parking round my way forms a kind of informal traffic-calming. Every corner is required to have a whacking great van parked on it.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2017)

Similar to @Saluki 's tale

Waaay back in the day when I was a student one of our friends had a car (a 2CV) - very few students did in those days. Anyway, she got blocked by someone parking across her driveway, so me and my mate, being two large chaps, bounced the offending vehicle away from the driveway, into the middle of the road so she could get out, and left it there.

Looking back on it, not the cleverest thing to have done, but students aren't expected to be clever are they?


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## spen666 (9 Feb 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> ...... Suggesting people wheel a shopping trolley back from a local supermarket (or on a bus as we did when Tesco first opened out of town) now would be viewed as some kind of extreme trial - which of course it's not.




Also, Tescos tend to look dimly on you taking their trolleys away, let alone on the bus.

BTW, do I need to get the trolley to tap in on the oyster card reader to pay for its fare?


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## screenman (9 Feb 2017)

Sixmile said:


> This is crazy but so true. Some folk just need to give the pretence of wealth though for their own ego. I just can't get my head around that some people would pay £300 or £400 a month for something like an Astra which they'll not even own at the end of a few years.
> 
> On supermarket parking, don't even start. It's just an accumulation of the most selfish people where the 'me first' mentality is in overdrive.



You can get a new Astra for £136 a month with a quick google.


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## Sixmile (9 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> You can get a new Astra for £136 a month with a quick google.


 
You'd probably need a credit check and finance options arranged too.


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## screenman (9 Feb 2017)

Sixmile said:


> You'd probably need a credit check and finance options arranged too.



It would seem good value to many who need a new car.


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## snorri (9 Feb 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Further to my earlier post, here's the shops with said parking bay


Have you ever been on board an aircraft carrier?


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## Sheffield_Tiger (9 Feb 2017)

spen666 said:


> Also, Tescos tend to look dimly on you taking their trolleys away, let alone on the bus.
> 
> BTW, do I need to get the trolley to tap in on the oyster card reader to pay for its fare?



Not a Tesco trolley, one of those tartan bags on a wheeled frame that supergran bools along


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## spen666 (10 Feb 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Not a Tesco trolley, one of those tartan bags on a wheeled frame that supergran bools along


Now that is low, it's one thing to pinch a trolley from Tesco's, but it's wrong to pinch one of those off some old lady


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## Freds Dad (10 Feb 2017)

spen666 said:


> Now that is low, it's one thing to pinch a trolley from Tesco's, but it's wrong to pinch one of those off some old lady



You don't need to pinch trolleys. My local Aldi only charges £1.


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## Tin Pot (10 Feb 2017)

With automated cars there is no longer a need to park, just send it home or on a loop when you get out.


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## spen666 (10 Feb 2017)

Freds Dad said:


> You don't need to pinch trolleys. My local Aldi only charges £1.


You can buy old lady's for £1 in Aldi?


Round our way, the old ladies apparently charge £20 upwards


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## smutchin (13 Feb 2017)

spen666 said:


> Round our way, the old ladies apparently charge £20 upwards



And if you ask nicely, they'll even take their teeth out first.


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## mr_cellophane (18 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Why drive to Tesco when they'll deliver for free, or for a nominal fee?


But the delivery vans cause more congestion in residential streets as they can't park next to the kerb because the home owners car is parked there as they haven't used it to go shopping.


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## Drago (18 Feb 2017)

Isn't that a problem perpetuated by people insisting on car ownership regardless of whether they have appropriate storage facilities for their vehicle?

A single vehicle (their van) causes far less pollution than a dozen cars going to and from Tesco, and a single vehicle also causes less congestion than that dozen cars.


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## crazyjoe101 (18 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Isn't that a problem perpetuated by people insisting on car ownership regardless of whether they have appropriate storage facilities for their vehicle?


Since I began my commute, I've become more and more annoyed by this one car that is always parked blocking half the wide lane as it becomes two just before a bus stop and 50m before a set traffic lights. I have to swing all the way out a car width and a half to go around it fighting with 2 lanes of traffic just as people are trying to chop and change approaching the lights, buses have to do the same and then sweep right back in to make the bus stop... all because they can't find somewhere to park despite the driveway and pavement bays.


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## Blue Hills (19 Feb 2017)

Sixmile said:


> This is crazy but so true. Some folk just need to give the pretence of wealth though for their own ego. I just can't get my head around that some people would pay £300 or £400 a month for something like an Astra which they'll not even own at the end of a few years..


To be a bore and return to the italian perspective, i have been told, and can well believe it from other stuff I have been told/seen that a young person bringing home 800 EUROS (there are a lot of low wages in italy) will consider a car a priority. A young woman i know apparently dismissed the idea of a boyfriend without a car - "how is he going to take me places?" was the reasoning/cry.

The head of transport of a city I know felt the need to point out that it was not in the italian constitution that folk had the right to park directly outside anywhere they were visiting.

It could be worse, oh so much worse, though I fully agree that lots of progress needs to be made here.


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## dave r (21 Feb 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Not a Tesco trolley, one of those tartan bags on a wheeled frame that supergran bools along



One of these 

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/2885429

We have one in the shed, we used to use one when we were car free.


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## Sara_H (21 Feb 2017)

Someone locally to me wrote a blog post about an incident where she was stood on a pavement (with baby in pushchair) when a driver pulled up wanting to park on the pavement where she was standing, she stood her ground for a bit then got bullied out of the way, and I think (if memory serves) got shouted at by driver for not moving out of the way quick enough!


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## Sixmile (21 Feb 2017)

crazyjoe101 said:


> Since I began my commute, I've become more and more annoyed by this one car that is always parked blocking half the wide lane as it becomes two just before a bus stop and 50m before a set traffic lights.


 
Yip, I hear ya. Once you've been commuting the same route for a while you start to notice the regular offenders. I've a few crazy drivers who fly past me flat out every morning that I've come to recognise. Then there's the green Micra Domino's delivery guy who is always flat to the mat and the hairdresser who always parks her white Audi outside her salon every morning well before the bus lane restriction ends. I've actually stopped and redirected traffic wardens down that stretch of road as it does my nut in every morning.


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## smutchin (21 Feb 2017)

Sara_H said:


> Someone locally to me wrote a blog post about an incident where she was stood on a pavement (with baby in pushchair) when a driver pulled up wanting to park on the pavement where she was standing, she stood her ground for a bit then got bullied out of the way, and I think (if memory serves) got shouted at by driver for not moving out of the way quick enough!



Stories like this are not good for my blood pressure! I like to think I would stand my ground in that situation but it's hard when you're being intimidated by someone wielding a car at you. Bastards. That behaviour should be regarded as assault with a deadly weapon.


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## Sara_H (21 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> Stories like this are not good for my blood pressure! I like to think I would stand my ground in that situation but it's hard when you're being intimidated by someone wielding a car at you. Bastards. That behaviour should be regarded as assault with a deadly weapon.


Me too! Infuriated!


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## Jody (21 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> None of this is 'singling out' anyone. It's unfortunate that any punitive taxation on private cars is necessarily regressive but it is necessary for the long-term functioning of society. And it can be implemented as part of a progressive policy to improve public transport and cycling facilities designed to make it easier for people to ditch the car.
> 
> People are driving cars they can't afford, and that's not good for anyone in the long run.



Have you seen how much tax is increasing on new cars in the next couple of months?


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## Drago (21 Feb 2017)

I would love someone to try that with me. I positively double dare them to even try. If it were a small enough car I'd lift it onto its side.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (21 Feb 2017)

Am I right that planning regulations for new build set parking at 0.75 spaces per property, and any parking provision on your new shoebox/house is now an extra cost on new estates?
It's probably part of the reason there's more metal than pavement on new estates.


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## smutchin (21 Feb 2017)

Jody said:


> Have you seen how much tax is increasing on new cars in the next couple of months?



No. Hope it's lots.


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## dave r (21 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> No. Hope it's lots.



http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...everything-you-need-to-know-about-uk-road-tax


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## jarlrmai (21 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> I would love someone to try that with me. I positively double dare them to even try. If it were a small enough car I'd lift it onto its side.



Guy banked the kerb and almost ran over my girlfriends foot a few years back, I had to be restrained.


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## mjr (21 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> The problem from a policing perspective is that with parking de-regulation most parts of the country have seen powers devolved from the police to the local authorities. In most parts of the country the police can only deal with "obstruction" offences (and it has to be an actual obstruction, not a "fire engine might want to get down there one day" job), or "dangerous position" offences. The usual rubbish that simply makes life annoying or awkward such as abusing double yellows, 2 wheels up on the kerb, parking across pedestrian dropped kerbs etc are largely beyond the powers of the dibble in a large number of areas.


While they can't deal with pavement parking, am I right in thinking that the police can still punish motorists for driving _or parking_ on a solid-line cycle lane or cycle track because it's a traffic regulation offence?

But it was a classic bad idea: move parking enforcement from police to councils, then encourage councils to cut it back to the bare minimum (basically only the paid parking areas) and most will because the majority want to park badly elsewhere and don't have to live in the places which are blighted by inconsiderate parking.


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## mjr (21 Feb 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Am I right that planning regulations for new build set parking at 0.75 spaces per property, and any parking provision on your new shoebox/house is now an extra cost on new estates?


No, not in any place that I've looked lately. The Parking Standards for Norfolk are space in a shed or garage or a cycle parking space for each unit, plus 1 visitor cycle space for every 4 units, plus 1 car space for a 1-bed, 2 for a 2/3-bed, 3 for a 4-bed unless the developer can argue successfully that there's already sufficient local car parking or public transport (major town centre or similar).

Of course, sometimes developers will try it on and see if they can sneak something past overworked planning officers and politicised planning committees because each car parking space is a bit less land for putting valuable houses onto, but it shouldn't happen.

What's more common is people in modern high-density developments refusing to use communal car parks because they don't trust their neighbours not to scratch their prized car, so they park it on the access road instead and then people start complaining about how the estate was built without enough car parking while everyone seems to have a huge blindspot about the vast mostly-empty tarmac behind/beside the groups of houses.


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## smutchin (21 Feb 2017)

dave r said:


> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...everything-you-need-to-know-about-uk-road-tax



I'd call that a step in the right direction, although there appear to be some anomalies and some people are still getting off very lightly. 

Slightly perturbed to find myself approving of anything introduced by that idiot Osborne!


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## subaqua (21 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> Why drive to Tesco when they'll deliver for free, or for a nominal fee?


Cos they pick the veg that's on its last legs. And it ain't the best to start with. 

I have discovered a cracking stall on the local high street for veg that's lasting longer than the Tesco guff and is cheaper. 

Don't need a car tho .....


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## Drago (21 Feb 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Am I right that planning regulations for new build set parking at 0.75 spaces per property, and any parking provision on your new shoebox/house is now an extra cost on new estates?
> It's probably part of the reason there's more metal than pavement on new estates.


I don't know the technical ins and outs, but broadly speaking I believe you're correct. These rules were introduced by Tony B.Liars government to discourage car ownership. Instead, they encourage people to litter the roads and footpaths with their cars. Some of these new build estates are bad enough crammed in as it is, but with all the roads turned into car parks they're often horrendous to both look at and navigate.


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## ufkacbln (22 Feb 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Am I right that planning regulations for new build set parking at 0.75 spaces per property, and any parking provision on your new shoebox/house is now an extra cost on new estates?
> It's probably part of the reason there's more metal than pavement on new estates.



Some years ago now, we looked at some "Executive houses"

Garage and drive looked tiny

When we enquired apparently a Ford Fiesta or Vauxhall Corsa is an "Executive car" and theses are what they were built to house (just)


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## guitarpete247 (22 Feb 2017)

Worst parking story I have is from November last year at Sainsbury's in Burrton on Trent. Car was parked precisely within the parking bay but had engine running. Two staff were looking into the car and discussing who would leave a toddler in an unlocked car. As we walked into store one of the staff ran in ahead of us and we heard a tannoy announcement asking for the driver.
We walked up to the back of the store and upon looking out of the emergency exit window saw a guy go up to the.car, a Volvo 4x4, with 2 large bags of shopping, so not a rush in job. He put shopping in and drove out. I think staff should have removed keys and child then phoned Police.


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## mjr (22 Feb 2017)

Drago said:


> I don't know the technical ins and outs, but broadly speaking I believe you're correct. These rules were introduced by Tony B.Liars government to discourage car ownership.


1. you may believe that, but can you find the rule? I think it's a popular myth promoted by the usual suspects.
2. whatever planning rules Blair introduced are basically long gone because the Cameron-Clegg government indulged in a bonfire of the rules (part of what they called The Red Tape Challenge) and replaced them with the National Planning Policy Framework in 2012... so if there is actually still a rule, it's because Cameron-Clegg also supported it.


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## NorthernDave (22 Feb 2017)

The council round here started trying to enforce a rule that new houses were to be built with car ports, not garages. One of the reasons given was that the garages generally being proposed wouldn't fit anything bigger than a Fiesta and that there is a tendency to fill garages with junk and park the car outside.
Needless to say, that rule was swiftly appealed and appears to have been totally abandoned looking at what's been thrown up since.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Mar 2017)

The local angling fraternity like to park up for free all day on the new cyclepath/pavement on my commute in Bristol (8.30am today):





They're probably people who moan about pavement cyclists. If they are still around on my way home tonight, they may get a 'note on the windscreen'. I know someone who is up in court next month - one of the charges is driving over a pavement.


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## Drago (9 Mar 2017)

The CPS have a 25 metre threshold policy before they'll prosecute for driving other than on a highway or road (else 2/3 of the Country would be in Court), so your chum must've really gone for it.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> The CPS have a 25 metre threshold policy before they'll prosecute for driving other than on a highway or road (else 2/3 of the Country would be in Court), so your chum must've really gone for it.


 Thanks for the info - interesting. What cheeses me off about the blokes in the photo is that they clearly think they are avoiding breaking the law by not parking on the double yellow lines but assume it's OK to use the pavement


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## Drago (9 Mar 2017)

Cars on the pavement should be subject to immediate sledgehammer attack by Ukranian ex spetznaz soldiers. It's fast becoming my 'grumpy old man' topic.


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## Blue Hills (9 Mar 2017)

You may be cheered to know that I saw a car parked on a pavement (broad pavement, low kerb, one of those restricted traffic/semi pedstrianisedareas) get a ticket in Preston the other day. I'd lay a bet that the owner returned to the car pleading I was only gone 5 mins/was popping nto a fast food place/there was no double yellow. Tough.Knew what s/he was doing for sure


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## Spinney (9 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Cars on the pavement should be subject to immediate sledgehammer attack by Ukranian ex spetznaz soldiers. It's fast becoming my 'grumpy old man' topic.


You've only got one??


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## snorri (9 Mar 2017)

I'm a little worried about my present mental state.



I've Liked two posts from Drago this week, and it's still only Thursday..


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## KnackeredBike (9 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Cars on the pavement should be subject to immediate sledgehammer attack by Ukranian ex spetznaz soldiers. It's fast becoming my 'grumpy old man' topic.


Somebody posted on Pepipoo that they did not understand why the police had ticketed them for unnecessary obstruction. Many seem to think it is only obstruction if you are obstructing a car.


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## Drago (9 Mar 2017)

What a dweezil. Why didn't the eejut just park it neatly at the kerbside?


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## snorri (9 Mar 2017)

Does anyone carry a jumbo size felt pen for the day when driving and parking just gets too much?


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> What a dweezil. Why didn't the eejut just park it neatly at the kerbside?


I wonder if the long centre line indicates they've parked close to a sharp bend or junction. I've seen people do that near junctions, feeling that they'd be an obstruction if fully on the carriageway in such a location. Of course, the answer is to park further from the hazard, not cause an extra hazard for people walking or using wheelchairs.


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

Here's my manifesto:

1. Make illegal parking a points offence.

2. Lower the threshold for losing your licence to 3 points.

Job done.

Doubtless the Daily Mail legions will whittle and bleat, and claim that's unreasonable, but I've been driving over 30 years and never acquired a parking ticket, never had a point on my licence, so it can't be that difficult.


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

I'd take a more bleedin heart liberal approach and suspend their licences for the same number of days as the points they have, with no exceptions. Even if there's legitimate reasons not to take the licences off 62-pointers (which I doubt), it'll make each offence increasingly painful.

I do know someone who got a very debatable 3 points but didn't get any more yet, many years later, and those have expired. So I'd be very reluctant to revoke at 3 points, as the system isn't infallible. There's moire argument for making the 6 point limit permanent and not only the first two years or whatever it is.


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

Nah, make it 3 points. That'll really distil peoples thinking.

It'll stop people treating speed limits as a target, parking like Dilbert, playing with their phones, and those that are too dense to learn will be off the road immediately they're caught, this making the roads a safer place.


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

I think that's putting too much power in the hands of the police if people can lose their licence for things like being too slow to return to the left lane after overtaking. Sorry @Drago - I know you were infallible but not all your colleagues are.


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

And do people get points for parking like Dilbert anyway? Like the ones above?


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

That's ok, no need to apologise . You and I are grown ups and can discuss differing views without coming to blows.

The integrity of the police is a can of worms, a meaty topic in its own right. But why should offenders have a bit of leeway when accruing points because some coppers might be unreliable? Why then 6 points? Surely there could be 2 unreliable coppers out there, so best make it 9 points... and so on.

Lets make it 3 points in the utopian cycling wonderland which would thrive under my premiership, but we'll set the evidential bar high. High quality photos of offences are now easy to acquire. Ditto videos, with body worn video being rolled out. Speeding offences have always had a high technical evidence threshold, so no problem there.

Making the punishment wooly doesn't protect the public from dodgy, incompetent or thick coppers, it simply gives offenders everywhere to pinch and inch, and they will.


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

mjr said:


> And do people get points for parking like Dilbert anyway? Like the ones above?


No, but they ruddy well should.


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## si_c (10 Mar 2017)

mjr said:


> And do people get points for parking like Dilbert anyway? Like the ones above?


Nah. They shouldn't get points, a more proportionate response would be to coyote them by dropping a 1000kg weight on their car. Plus it would encourage the manufacturing sector, which they keep saying they want to do.


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## martint235 (10 Mar 2017)

I live 10 yards away from a row of shops on a fairly busy road. The shops have a parking bay for 5 cars outside and then a further 20 yards away is a pay car park for around 20 cars. I have a driveway but can't have a dropped curb as there is a pedestrian island just left of my house which is fair enough as I've never owned a car, people visiting can work it out for themselves. The fun we have includes:

if the 5 bays are full, park alongside them. It's ok your hazards are on 
Pull up on the kerb outside my house. This is the favourite one. Sometimes I berate people for it, sometimes I can't be bothered. One time I got someone who half knew the law. "What do you want?". "What do you mean?". "Well you've parked illegally outside my house, you must want to talk to me about something awfully important". "I'm not parked illegally there's no dropped curb (I think they almost added "so there")". "But you've got two wheels on the pavement that's what makes it illegal". "F*** off"
But the best has to be the woman who actually parked on my drive. I was not best pleased and was waiting for her when she got back. "Why are you parked on my drive?". "I was only gone 30 seconds". "I really don't care. You're on my property". "It was 30 seconds for crying out loud". "You're really not getting this are you, it's my property" then she just drove off. 

It's not all bad though as I get to watch the traffic wardens issuing tickets on the odd days they move up from the High St. That's always hilariously funny.


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

I listen to the parking attendants on my scanner. Quite entertaining. Cries of "call the police, I've just been assaulted" are almost daily occurrences.

It's pathetic and incredibly childish. Been caught breaking the law? Never mind, Bitch slap the person that caught you, that'll get you off the hook.


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## KnackeredBike (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Nah, make it 3 points. That'll really distil peoples thinking.
> 
> It'll stop people treating speed limits as a target, parking like Dilbert, playing with their phones, and those that are too dense to learn will be off the road immediately they're caught, this making the roads a safer place.


It's already 3 points for parking on zig-zags but they are still routinely ignored. Best way would be to bring back parking to police traffic wardens so normal infractions get a ticket but anything more serious like obstruction gets points. 

Also the 50% off if you pay quickly only for your vehicle's first offence in a three year period, after that it's full price.


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## captain nemo1701 (10 Mar 2017)

My neighbour is 87 and uses a disabled buggy to get about which she keeps in the rear garden shed. We live in a Terrace and share a tunnel between our houses. She came out one morning to find that some numpty that had parked half on the pavement, blocking her garden gate that opens outwards. First I knew about it is when her son knocked on my door and asked if I knew who the car belonged to. I offered to let her use my drive to get out but there wasn’t enough room between my porch legs and the garden wall to get her buggy through.

Long story short is that a few hours later a tow truck arrived to get rid of the car, which had been there all weekend. Just as the guy was checking the chains on the wheels, young 20-something bloke comes out of a house down the street across the road, speaks to the tow man who made a call. Next thing is that the tow truck guy leaves and Mr Numpty drives away, only to return two minutes later, parks on the other side of the street, same way – mostly on the pavement. I’ve seen this guy before, he lives in the house on the corner which we all refer to as the ‘ASBO’ house as there is a certain ‘social class’ of people live there, park their cars on the verge (rutted it), loud parties, dutiful father once bought his kids a mini moto which they raced up & down the street all day. See my post elsewhere under the ‘Mr Big ‘thread – it’s the same house. Bloke who owns it got arrested in the street two years ago. Lots of cars pull up outside the house and spend 5 minutes waiting outside while someone goes in to ‘make a purchase’. They all park on the pavement too.


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## mjr (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> The integrity of the police is a can of worms, a meaty topic in its own right. But why should offenders have a bit of leeway when accruing points because some coppers might be unreliable? Why then 6 points? Surely there could be 2 unreliable coppers out there, so best make it 9 points... and so on.
> 
> Lets make it 3 points in the utopian cycling wonderland which would thrive under my premiership, but we'll set the evidential bar high. High quality photos of offences are now easy to acquire. Ditto videos, with body worn video being rolled out.


I'm not doubting their integrity but more their accuracy/consistency. Requiring video would address that.

At the moment, some minor offences come down to he said / he said and the courts seem to believe the police officer's memory, which is probably usually correct but not always. With only 3 points and a small fine at stake, the odd false positive isn't too painful, but I think there would be more challenges and more aggressive challenges if the stakes were higher.


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## martint235 (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> I listen to the parking attendants on my scanner. Quite entertaining. Cries of "call the police, I've just been assaulted" are almost daily occurrences.
> 
> It's pathetic and incredibly childish. Been caught breaking the law? Never mind, Bitch slap the person that caught you, that'll get you off the hook.


If it looks like it's getting nasty nasty, I'll sometimes wander out in a friendly kind of way. I have a nice disarming smile. 

I've only had to intervene once when some bloke was getting really nasty and racist about the fact he'd got a ticket but SWMBO is always terrified people will come back and brick the windows so she prefers me to stay out of it.


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## KnackeredBike (10 Mar 2017)

mjr said:


> I'm not doubting their integrity but more their accuracy/consistency. Requiring video would address that.
> 
> At the moment, some minor offences come down to he said / he said and the courts seem to believe the police officer's memory, which is probably usually correct but not always. With only 3 points and a small fine at stake, the odd false positive isn't too painful, but I think there would be more challenges and more aggressive challenges if the stakes were higher.


A large part of being a policeman is being able to recall things with accuracy which is why you see them using their pocket book so much - cases can take six months to get to court and of course it is important to the justice system that their recollection can be relied upon. I suppose like any job else you get very good at the skills you need for the role.


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

Body Worn Video will be universal by next year, and a WAV. File never forgets.


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## marknotgeorge (11 Mar 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> The local angling fraternity like to park up for free all day on the new cyclepath/pavement on my commute in Bristol (8.30am today):
> View attachment 341543
> 
> They're probably people who moan about pavement cyclists. If they are still around on my way home tonight, they may get a 'note on the windscreen'. I know someone who is up in court next month - one of the charges is driving over a pavement.


Know anyone who can do a Danny MacAskill over the top?


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## captain nemo1701 (10 Apr 2017)

Gone Fishing..again
Pesky cyclists..grrr!. Always riding on the pavement. I will have to moan to the local press about them. In the meantime, I want to go fishing.....where can I park for free all day?:


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## Sheffield_Tiger (11 Apr 2017)

I don't know why the police don't do something about it.

Oh...

Not "on an urgent call" . Outside the station, just outside their car park and with parking space a few metres away behind the viewpoint. Parked on the dropped kerb, over the braille paving. Oh and I believe the car to the right with the reflective plate rendering the digits unreadable to flash, is a police (or employee of) vehicle

I started documenting their repeat pavement parking and got the "photographing police premises is against anti terrorism law" speech. Which I paid as much attention to as it deserved.


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## markharry66 (23 Apr 2017)

Park where you like local hightstreet free for all.


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## GlenBen (23 Apr 2017)

markharry66 said:


> Park where you like local hightstreet free for all.
> 
> 
> View attachment 348924
> View attachment 348925


If you park too far from kfc theres a chance you might burn off some of the calories youre about to eat on the way to the car...not a risk worth taking.


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## ufkacbln (23 Apr 2017)

Car Boot Sale issues again today


One guy was issued a warning. Policeman taking details of cars parked on verge (only access is via and emergency entrance and 20 feet of pavement) when the muppet tooted the Police Officer to move off the pavement so he could drive along it!


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## ufkacbln (23 Apr 2017)

T'other was my pet hate last night

Parked on the road and nipped into pub for supper

Despite big sign asking for 6 feet to allow wheelchair access - muppet parks against bumper

Simple answer, we had to park the wheelchair in the middle of the road, move car from parking bay and also block road, then load wheelchair

Must have delayed about 20 vehicles by the time we were finished, all because of one muppet who can't read


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## NorthernDave (23 Apr 2017)

We've got a new neighbour, a few houses up on the opposite side of the street at one of the handful of houses around here that has a drive.

So obviously he's parked his car on the street where there is clearly barely enough space to go round, while his drive remains empty. 

Hopefully it's a one off


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## captain nemo1701 (27 Apr 2017)

Found this online last night. Shared use cyclepath/pavement. Elephant in the room at the 6 minute mark. This sort of thing annoys me. I'll bet he moans about cyclists on pavements:


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## Milzy (27 Apr 2017)

screenman said:


> You can get a new Astra for £136 a month with a quick google.


If you get the full on lease deal where you get all repairs tyres servicing included etc and it's a high end Astra he's right. More ppl are either leasing or just going for PCP to be flash without the cash. HPI will dwindle out a little these days.


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## Tanis8472 (27 Apr 2017)

Well that was 10 minutes wasted. 
And as for the creaking


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## Milzy (27 Apr 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Found this online last night. Shared use cyclepath/pavement. Elephant in the room at the 6 minute mark. This sort of thing annoys me. I'll bet he moans about cyclists on pavements:



Knobber


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## Tanis8472 (27 Apr 2017)

I see the post has been edited lol. 
That 6 minute info is helpful


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## Tanis8472 (27 Apr 2017)

Yep, Knobbers


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## captain nemo1701 (27 Apr 2017)

What gets me about this guy is that he drove along a cycle/pedestrian space, confined by the fences on either side. What an a*se. You sometimes see WVM parking on the cyclepath a bit further along too.


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## mjr (9 May 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Well that was 10 minutes wasted.
> And as for the creaking


I'm more puzzled by leaving the cycle route at 1min40 to ride along the pavement beside the busy road (which I don't think is legal - but few people walk there)... back to the cross the major road where the cycle route does anyway


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## captain nemo1701 (26 May 2017)

Result last night. Cycling home along Cattle Market Road here in sunny Bristol, usual car plonked on pavement, so I called the fuzz and reported it. Moments after I got off the phone, cop car drives by, so I knock on the window at the junction and ask them to have a word with Mr Lazy. They U-Turn and do just that!.

Result.

Some of my work colleagues think I'm too pedantic about issues like this but my bottom line is that if I am not supposed to ride on pavements, motorists are certainly not permitted to drive & park on 'em.


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## captain nemo1701 (15 Aug 2017)

Not just blinkered, but desperate:






Further along to the left a burger bar has plonked itself on the pavement and there are three cars parked like these.My concern with them is that to when they reverse out, it's into a cycle lane.


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## Randy Butternubs (4 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Here's my manifesto:
> 
> 1. Make illegal parking a points offence.
> 
> ...



I got a parking ticket once. I pulled in on a small road joining all the other parked cars and made sure I was clear of the driveway in front of me that led to a little car park. It was dark and I missed the yellow lines. The entrance to the carpark was treated like a junction and they wanted people to stay well clear of it. Fair enough. I made a mistake.

Do you think losing my license would be an appropriate punishment? Even if it was just 3 points out of 12 the increased insurance would have kept me from driving for 5 (?) years as I was quite young at the time.

Illegal parking is selfish and inconveniences other people. It isn't dangerous though and shouldn't be treated like speeding or running red lights.


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## Drago (4 Sep 2017)

Illegal parking can be dangerous, particularly when Trumpton or Ambo want to get up the road but cant. It also can force pedestrians into the road, can obstruct a drivers view of pedestrians and other road users. Problem is, give people an inch and they inevitably start taking a mile. It should be ruthlessly enforced, and should be regarded every bit as seriously as speeding etc - if you can't control something as basic and fundamental as depositing a vehicle in a safe and lawful manner, then you really shouldn't be entrusted to do anything else with it.


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## mjr (4 Sep 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> Illegal parking is selfish and inconveniences other people. It isn't dangerous though and shouldn't be treated like speeding or running red lights.


I'm just back from a medical centre where the usually wide open and easy entrance junction has been reduced to give-and-take around a blind corner by some idiot parking their tinted-windows works van half on the pavement right by it. Surely you can appreciate how that's dangerous? Tow the van and ban the driver IMO!

If the van is working nearby, that work site should provide parking, else they'll have to park a bit further away and walk. Possibly they could negotiate with the medical centre for a space in the usually-half-empty car park.


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## MiK1138 (4 Sep 2017)

si_c said:


> Nah. They shouldn't get points, a more proportionate response would be to coyote them by dropping a 1000kg weight on their car. Plus it would encourage the manufacturing sector, which they keep saying they want to do.


Ah but where do you park the crane that drops the weight,


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## MiK1138 (4 Sep 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Not just blinkered, but desperate:
> View attachment 368159
> 
> 
> Further along to the left a burger bar has plonked itself on the pavement and there are three cars parked like these.My concern with them is that to when they reverse out, it's into a cycle lane.


Local Graffiti artists are never around when you need one


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## Randy Butternubs (4 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Illegal parking can be dangerous, particularly when Trumpton or Ambo want to get up the road but cant. It also can force pedestrians into the road, can obstruct a drivers view of pedestrians and other road users. Problem is, give people an inch and they inevitably start taking a mile. It should be ruthlessly enforced, and should be regarded every bit as seriously as speeding etc - if you can't control something as basic and fundamental as depositing a vehicle in a safe and lawful manner, then you really shouldn't be entrusted to do anything else with it.



Yeah ok, there are extreme cases where you could argue that illegal parking encourages dangerous behaviour but this is the exception rather than the rule. Even then this argument is, in my opinion, a bit like when someone I know told me that slow, elderly drivers are a dangerous menace as they force others to do risky overtakes! The burden of responsibility for avoiding crashes is surely on those doing the driving? If someone has selfishly plopped down something you can't see past then slow down to pass it.

I fully agree that parking should be more heavily enforced and surely, since it generates revenue, the only reason it isn't is public backlash? I've no time for people whining about those mean old traffic wardens. I can't agree that it is as serious as speeding etc. though. Fines are appropriate.



mjr said:


> I'm just back from a medical centre where the usually wide open and easy entrance junction has been reduced to give-and-take around a blind corner by some idiot parking their tinted-windows works van half on the pavement right by it. Surely you can appreciate how that's dangerous? Tow the van and ban the driver IMO!



I can't comment on that specific van and I'm sure a lot of work vans are parked in a needlessly selfish manner (ie. not moving after having unloaded). However I can't see how certain jobs could get done without some traffic disruption. Sometimes people need to move very heavy things that you cannot realistically carry any significant distance. If it needs to go to somewhere with yellow lines then what do you do?

Case in point: I once helped to move a reception desk/unit from my workshop into a luton van. The thing was bloody massive and weighed over half a ton. It took 6 of us with 2 pump trucks and a manual fork lift over an hour to maneuver it over the pavement and into the van. All the while we were blocking half of a narrow, relatively high traffic road. No yellow lines so nothing illegal about it but it could easily have been more disruptive than if it was somewhere with yellow lines. What else could we reasonably have done?


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## KnackeredBike (5 Sep 2017)

@captain nemo1701 this is on my way to work

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7...4YZurkQw!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

If you scroll back to 2008 you see there was a lovely patch of grass with some trees outside those houses. I am surprised none of them look outside their window and think "this looks bloody awful".


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## jefmcg (5 Sep 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> What else could we reasonably have done?


Um, get permission perhaps?


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## KnackeredBike (5 Sep 2017)

They could probably do with making the fines across the country the same as London. The problem is for £35 you can chance it in many locations for little risk. For £65 it starts to become less attractive to leave a car on double yellows to pop into a shop.


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## captain nemo1701 (5 Sep 2017)

KnackeredBike said:


> @captain nemo1701 this is on my way to work
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7...4YZurkQw!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> If you scroll back to 2008 you see there was a lovely patch of grass with some trees outside those houses. I am surprised none of them look outside their window and think "this looks bloody awful".



I'll bet some of them moan to the local paper about cyclists on pavements. But when they need to park their car.....


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## Randy Butternubs (5 Sep 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Um, get permission perhaps?



Snarkiness is not conducive to reasonable discussion. As I said in my post permission was not needed in my case. More generally, getting permission in advance prevents you being fined but does nothing to prevent you inconveniencing others. The fact that getting permission to block roads is possible only reinforces that it is sometimes necessary.


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## mjr (5 Sep 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> Snarkiness is not conducive to reasonable discussion. As I said in my post permission was not needed in my case. More generally, getting permission in advance prevents you being fined but does nothing to prevent you inconveniencing others. The fact that getting permission to block roads is possible only reinforces that it is sometimes necessary.


But applying for permission at least allows the public to require mitigation measures or to restrict the length of time or time of day that it will be there, which is much better than the current "fark the disabled, they can share the 40mph carriageway with heavy motor vehicles to get around me even though I consider it too dangerous to park my precious precious van on it" approach which I encountered yet again this morning. A short driving ban of such paid drivers would focus their mind both on learning to park correctly and actually doing it.

There's always an excuse, isn't there? Somehow we can move huge things vast distances, sometimes even whole buildings, but one reception desk and that's too difficult not to obstruct others.


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## Drago (5 Sep 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> Case in point: I once helped to move a reception desk/unit from my workshop into a luton van. The thing was bloody massive and weighed over half a ton. It took 6 of us with 2 pump trucks and a manual fork lift over an hour to maneuver it over the pavement and into the van. All the while we were blocking half of a narrow, relatively high traffic road. No yellow lines so nothing illegal about it but it could easily have been more disruptive than if it was somewhere with yellow lines. What else could we reasonably have done?



Offence - Unnecessary obstruction.

Solution - Apply for a temporary road closure order. 2 or 3 hours one Sunday would be likely authorised under the circumstances you describe. Unfortunately, someone will have to invest some effort into the application, and pay the fee, when it is just so much easier and cheaper to not seek the proper authority and block the road.


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## MichaelW2 (5 Sep 2017)

I was almost run over by a speeding parker! 
I was about to cross a side road along an A road arterial route when a car comes at excessive speed along the A road, then without signalling or slowing turns into the side road, then without signalling or slowing down crosses to the other side of the road and slams on the brakes to park where I was just about to step off the pavement. The driver was oblivious to his many errors.


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## Profpointy (5 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Offence - Unnecessary obstruction.
> 
> Solution - Apply for a temporary road closure order. 2 or 3 hours one Sunday would be likely authorised under the circumstances you describe. Unfortunately, someone will have to invest some effort into the application, and pay the fee, when it is just so much easier and cheaper to not seek the proper authority and block the road.



sounds like a disproportionate lot of hassle for delivering a fridge or some bricks or whatever.


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## mjr (5 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> sounds like a disproportionate lot of hassle for delivering a fridge or some bricks or whatever.


If it's as simple as a fridge, just wheel it a bit further from a safe loading bay - why is that a problem? Pallets of bricks are generally dropped quickly, but such construction deliveries mostly seem rather better regulated anyway - it's been a long time since I've been obstructed by one.


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## Drago (5 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> sounds like a disproportionate lot of hassle for delivering a fridge or some bricks or whatever.



It matters not if they're delivering a pack of fags or a Sherman tank - the law re highway obstruction rules and regs are what they are.

Why should everyone else be inconvenienced or endangered because someone else thinks its a disproportionate hassle? After all, shoplifters think its a disproportionate hassle to pay form stuff, speeders think its a disproportionate hassle to be delayed by 30 seconds by obeying a speed limit, so why should any other class of law or rule breaker be ignored because to do the right thing is a 'disproportionate hassle'?

What makes them so special?

If you don't feel able to obey the rules of the road, then don't use the road. The regulations aren't simply an inconvenience to be ignored when it seems expedient to do. They're there to ensure convince and safety for all road users, not just whomsoever may be too lazy to park properly and havebto carry something an extra hundred yards.


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## mjr (5 Sep 2017)

But hey, even in Cambridge, the police don't care about parking and driving on pavements and cycleways: http://www.cambridgecyclist.co.uk/2017/08/so-cops-response-to-yesterdays-van.html


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## Profpointy (5 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> It matters not if they're delivering a pack of fags or a Sherman tank - the law re highway obstruction rules and regs are what they are.
> 
> Why should everyone else be inconvenienced or endangered because someone else thinks its a disproportionate hassle? After all, shoplifters think its a disproportionate hassle to pay form stuff, speeders think its a disproportionate hassle to be delayed by 30 seconds by obeying a speed limit, so why should any other class of law or rule breaker be ignored because to do the right thing is a 'disproportionate hassle'?
> 
> ...



We'll have to agree to differ. I think commo


Drago said:


> It matters not if they're delivering a pack of fags or a Sherman tank - the law re highway obstruction rules and regs are what they are.
> 
> Why should everyone else be inconvenienced or endangered because someone else thinks its a disproportionate hassle? After all, shoplifters think its a disproportionate hassle to pay form stuff, speeders think its a disproportionate hassle to be delayed by 30 seconds by obeying a speed limit, so why should any other class of law or rule breaker be ignored because to do the right thing is a 'disproportionate hassle'?
> 
> ...



Think we'll have to agree to differ. Anyone who actually lives in town is prepared for a bit of give and take for deliveries to their neighbours. Rigorous enforcment means driving people out to the suburbs and hence entailling more daily driving to work. Not a good outcome


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## mjr (6 Sep 2017)

User said:


> I find it a bit odd that the cyclist claims he was driven at but doesn't put that bit of video up...


That seems a bit unfair when most constabularies tell us not to upload the video of the actual offence - Norfolk's page with that instruction is at https://www.norfolk.police.uk/contact-us/report-something/dashboard-camera-report-form, for example.



User said:


> His blog demonstrates he's someone with very fixed views and a somewhat obsessive nature.


Most blogs are limited to one or two topics. I wouldn't extrapolate like that.


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## mjr (6 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Think we'll have to agree to differ. Anyone who actually lives in town is prepared for a bit of give and take for deliveries to their neighbours. has given up hope of anyone ever enforcing parking and loading restrictions much.


FTFY, based on when I lived in town.


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## Randy Butternubs (6 Sep 2017)

mjr said:


> But applying for permission at least allows the public to require mitigation measures or to restrict the length of time or time of day that it will be there



A fair point.



mjr said:


> There's always an excuse, isn't there? Somehow we can move huge things vast distances, sometimes even whole buildings, but one reception desk and that's too difficult not to obstruct others.





Drago said:


> Offence - Unnecessary obstruction.



I think you have both read my post through the lens of your own prejudices. We weren't blocking the pavement and the obstruction to the road was no different than any other narrow road where a parked car means effectively narrowing from 2 lanes to 1. The only difference was that nobody ever parks on that road as there is nothing for people to get to so it it usually clear.

I'm sure there are some occasions where points or perhaps even a ban make sense. Most bad parking however is just a minor nuisance caused by minor selfishness and small fines make sense if there is proper enforcement.


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## captain nemo1701 (15 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Illegal parking can be dangerous, particularly when Trumpton or Ambo want to get up the road but cant. It also can force pedestrians into the road, can obstruct a drivers view of pedestrians and other road users. Problem is, give people an inch and they inevitably start taking a mile. It should be ruthlessly enforced, and should be regarded every bit as seriously as speeding etc - if you can't control something as basic and fundamental as depositing a vehicle in a safe and lawful manner, then you really shouldn't be entrusted to do anything else with it.



Where I live, there are some prime examples of the 'dump it anywhere' school of parking. The smallest space on a corner is a favourite, preferably diagonally half on the pavement sticking out into the road. And if there is a wide-ish space on the pavement at a junction...hey...thats free off-road parking!.


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