# Bikepacking: what lock?



## Gradders (11 Feb 2020)

Keen for people's view on the type of bike lock to take on a biking tour through Spain (North to South). Insurance companies demand a gold rated lock however they weigh plus 1kg. Trying to keep weight down. Staying in hotels/ hostels etc. Any recommendations or advice?


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## I like Skol (11 Feb 2020)

It depends on how likely you are to be locking your bike up in public places and out of your view. If this will happen then I would think a decent mini U-lock that can go through frame and around a railing or reasonable post would be the minimum, then a cable to secure one or both wheels.
If you will always be with your bike and only need to lock it at café stops and in/at your accommodation at night then you could get away with a lighter, less substantial lock, maybe a coil/cable lock.

Doing LEJoG in the UK in a few months in a group of 4 and we are only taking cable locks for the café stops as we will always be with the bikes and won't all be disappearing off to the toilet at the same time etc.


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## CanucksTraveller (11 Feb 2020)

It's a great question, one I've been wondering myself. I'm keeping an eye on Skol and Nickyboy's prep for their ride with interest, I'm always wondering what people do at a B+B, hostel or campsite where there's no locked garage etc! I'd kind of planned on a Gold D lock and cables as the baseline, figuring that carrying a kilo on whatever odyssey is infinitely better than risk losing the bike.


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## HobbesOnTour (11 Feb 2020)

It's really a matter of personal preference and it depends on so many factors.

The first is insurance - if you don't have the correct lock you could lose your bike and your payout.

After that you're playing the odds.

I'm of the opinion that a fully loaded bike left in a visible location (when shopping for example) is not attractive to most thieves. A relatively simple lock will suffice. A lightly loaded bike may well be more likely to go walkabout.

Storage at night in hotels and hostels may require prioritising places where your bike will definitely be secure - in your room. If you're on a well travelled bike route and hotel A has an outdoor shelter for bikes, chances are that's well known to local bike thieves. 

Is your bike attractive to thieves? Can you change that? 

A bit of situational awareness is a big help too. I'd often circle the car park of a supermarket etc to get a feel for a place before parking up. Only a handful of times have I not parked up.

Finally, a big smile in asking for assistance in a shop or a hotel goes a long, long way.


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## Rocky (11 Feb 2020)

I use this when I'm touring - not too heavy and quite robust. Hopefully will fit in one you your bike packs:








https://www.evanscycles.com/kryptonite-evolution-mini-7-d-lock-with-kryptoflex-cable-EV325378


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## Smudge (11 Feb 2020)

D lock every time, often supplemented with a cable, but always a d lock at least. Also, try to place it where its hard to get a bar in there to twist it and lock it up somewhere busy with people.
Its about all you can do, thieves with cordless power tools and the brass neck to use them with a lot of people around will go through any lock.


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## I like Skol (11 Feb 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I use this when I'm touring - not too heavy and quite robust. Hopefully will fit in one you your bike packs:
> 
> View attachment 504211
> 
> ...


Bought that exact one last year for urban paranoia situations. It does inspire confidence that your bike is likely to still be where you left it if parked sensibly. However, at 1.6kgs it is not something I would use for anything other than inner-city utility rides.


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## Dwn (11 Feb 2020)

I've gone for a foldylock classic - silver rather than gold rating but packs down small and weighs 1kg. In the city I tend to use my abus folding lock, which also packs down well but is 1.6 kg. Pretty sure that is gold rated


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## sleuthey (12 Feb 2020)

No idea what the insurance rating is but I got this for Christmas and in terms or convenience and the quality of the securing arrangements it is superb.


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## nickyboy (13 Feb 2020)

For our LEJOG we'll use @I like Skol cable locks at cafes en route. Lock all four bikes together. I also always put my bike in the highest possible gear to make cycling off with it difficult unless the thief knows how to change gear

We are staying in B&Bs and small hotels. All the B&Bs have confirmed they have secure storage. Probably a garage in which we can use Skollys locks. Premier Inns allow bikes in rooms. A couple of hotels are a decent size so I'm sure they will have an internal storeroom we can use

Never considered insurance tbh


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## tom73 (13 Feb 2020)

Not sure if this is any good popped up on my twitter feed. 

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/2...ilver-worlds-first-insurance-rated-flexible-u
They claim it's the world's first lock that both bends and carries a Sold Secure Silver rating 740g. Small one is 640g
From a quick look they do a gold rated one you can also take out theft protection for extra cost.


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## froze (15 Mar 2020)

If insurance coverage is important then you need to get a gold rated lock.

The lightest gold rated lock that I know of is the LiteLok Gold Range, you can wear it as a belt or put it in your pack, but even this lightweight job weighs 2.4 pounds but it costs $135.


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## I like Skol (15 Mar 2020)

froze said:


> If insurance coverage is important then you need to get a gold rated lock


depends on the conditions imposed by your insurance provider. Not all companies stipulate a type or standard of lock.


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## steveindenmark (15 Mar 2020)

A real personal choice. Just like helmets and tyres. One lock does not suit all.

Some carry a D lock, half the weight of their bike. Personally I carry a home made 3mm stainless steel wire which is 2m long.

It will go round a post and frame, my seat, bags and wheels. I would call it a cafe lock. Easy to cut with bolt croppers, quite a bit harder with wire cutters.

I am often told on forums I will get my bike stolen using this wire. The bikes are insured and in 55 years of cycling I have been lucky enough not to lose a bike.... yet 🍀😁

I use a decent lock with the wire and it is usually fastened to jannies bike with a combination cable.

It works for me.


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## froze (15 Mar 2020)

I use the same 12mm thick cable with the same Discus lock that I bought way back in the late 70's, no bike of mine has been stolen with it...BUT I have never lived in a high crime city except for about 8 years I was in Los Angeles, but during that time I simply took my bike into my office, the security guys for the building allowed me to do that probably because they didn't want to be responsible for watching it! But I used that lock to lock my bikes up at college and never a problem either. I'm sort of surprised that the original vinyl covering is still fully attached and not brittle after all those years.


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## CanucksTraveller (15 Mar 2020)

I think all the last two posts prove is that it's not so much the lock, it's where you're leaving it and who is around. You can't really post an "I've never had a problem with this dainty cable" story in all good faith if you don't park the bike somewhere a little higher risk which is sometimes necessary on tour. 
As always it's a balance of risk, if your tour calls at UK town centre supermarkets and night stops I'd venture it's better to have something substantial, and suck up the weight.


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## mike chadwick (18 Mar 2020)

Suppose it depends on what bike you have my 5 year old decathlon road / touring bike 
Stays outside the tent with a d lock on the front wheel and a cable lock on the rear prefably 
round a near bye tree.
Whilst it owes me nothing money wise the inconvenience and the walking dictate I all ways lock
It even if I only leave it for 5 minutes although the weight would put of most bike thieves


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## Vantage (19 Mar 2020)

It might be worth switching insurance providers so a gold rated lock isn't required. 
I don't have home insurance but do have bike insurance. The last company I used required the use of a gold rated lock which weighed an absolute ton. I then switched to another who charged a little extra but only required a silver rated lock which I then bought and is a full kilo lighter. 
I've lost enough bikes to threiving scum to know if they want it, they'll take it and if they can't take it, they'll just smash the bike out of contempt. 
There's no point lugging all that extra weight around when you'll be just as covered with a much lighter lock.


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## classic33 (19 Mar 2020)

froze said:


> If insurance coverage is important then you need to get a gold rated lock.
> 
> The lightest gold rated lock that I know of is the LiteLok Gold Range, you can wear it as a belt or put it in your pack, but even this lightweight job weighs 2.4 pounds but it costs $135.


With the same fitting on the clasp/locking mechanism to the "belt" being used, that was beaten in 17 seconds.


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## froze (21 Mar 2020)

classic33 said:


> With the same fitting on the clasp/locking mechanism to the "belt" being used, that was beaten in 17 seconds.



It's still a gold rated lock and that rating is required by his insurance company, and it's reasonably lightweight. All locks can be beaten with a battery powered angle grinder and a new ferrous metal cutting diamond blade in just seconds, but what's the chances while touring someone will come by with a angle grinder?


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## classic33 (21 Mar 2020)

froze said:


> It's still a gold rated lock and that rating is required by his insurance company, and it's reasonably lightweight. All locks can be beaten with a battery powered angle grinder and a new ferrous metal cutting diamond blade in just seconds, but what's the chances while touring someone will come by with a angle grinder?


Still wouldn't touch it, knowing that it has been broken open with a spoon/tire iron.


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## froze (21 Mar 2020)

classic33 said:


> Still wouldn't touch it, knowing that it has been broken open with a spoon/tire iron.



It's still a gold rated lock which satisfies the insurance company, and it's the cheapest and lightest gold rated lock you can get, but again, on a tour you're not going to be gone from your bike and most people are opportunist, they're not going to have either a angle grinder with them, and since it's an uncommon lock, a spoon tire iron to pop the lock with because they're not going to know that that works! 

Sure I wouldn't use it to park the bike outside in a high crime area and leave it for hours, but you won't be doing that while touring. If your touring in a group the group leader will usually stay outside with the bikes so you won't even need a lock. I've been camping either with or on my bike quite a bit, and only use a cable to lock my bike, no one in over 35 years that I've had that cable ever bothered to steal any of my bikes at campgrounds. The most recent "event" I had was I was sleeping in my tent in a primitive area of a campground with another tenter about 100 yards from me, when in the middle of the night I hear two people quietly talking, one said to the other "check out that bike" at this point I open up a small opening so I could see, and the other guy walked over to my bike and then went back to the other guy and said quietly "it's locked to the table" and they left. I went back to sleep! People in campgrounds either are mostly pretty honest, or simply won't be carrying tools around with them looking for bikes to steal, and mine would have been pretty easy to snag being just a cable, but a lock like the one I mentioned here there is no way someone would know how to get the bike unless they had an angle grinder which would wake up a bunch of campers.

So what do you expect the original poster to do while touring, carry a 15 pound gold rated chain lock? that will mean he'll have to give up 15 pounds of gear on his bike to make the weight limit! Not an option.


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## jiberjaber (22 Mar 2020)

Or - change to a bike insurance that doesn't require a gold standard lock. Mine is just that it is locked to an immovable object. Last tour I did (26 days in France) I just used a long ottolock


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## lilolee (27 Mar 2020)

@jiberjaber What is the name of your Insurance Co.?


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## jiberjaber (27 Mar 2020)

lilolee said:


> @jiberjaber What is the name of your Insurance Co.?



Liverpool Victoria


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Mar 2020)

Your bike packing so surely wild camping and well away from the crims.


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## uphillstruggler (29 Mar 2020)

I use a decathlon combination lock, looks heavy duty. Really just for show at a local store but reality is that I’m not on a campsite so it’s between me and the thief if they want to try to nick my bike.


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## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

A roadie mate of mine upends his bike at cafe stops - remember those?

The thinking is no one would want to nick a bike that looks broken, and as he is keeping an eye on it anyway, it would give him a few extra seconds to catch the thief.


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## mjr (30 Mar 2020)

froze said:


> If your touring in a group the group leader will usually stay outside with the bikes so you won't even need a lock.


You still need a lock, even then, in some cities. What happens is one thief starts to wheel one bike away fast and when the bike monitor is about to catch them, they drop the bike and run off and while the monitor is standing the bike back up and wheeling it back, their accomplice has removed another bike in another direction and is already out of sight... 



Pale Rider said:


> A roadie mate of mine upends his bike at cafe stops - remember those?
> 
> The thinking is no one would want to nick a bike that looks broken, and as he is keeping an eye on it anyway, it would give him a few extra seconds to catch the thief.


Possibly more than a few seconds. It's surprising how difficult many people find flipping a bike, having no concept of a centre of gravity level with partway down the seat tube and forks. Combine that with shifters set to dump the chain or produce a comedy spin gear, I suspect you might have up to a minute to catch them.


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## roley poley (30 Mar 2020)

how about quick release pedals? you could pop them in your pocket at a café stop and throw them at the back of the ba****s head as he tried to cycle off


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## RobinS (31 Mar 2020)

We only ever use lightweight cables and padlocks on 3 month tours around Europe - so far with no issues. Our thinking is this:
Our Revolution "british style" tourers are pretty unique in continental Europe, so not desirable like, say a fancy MTB.
Fully loaded with SPD pedals most people would not be able to get on and make a quick getaway.
High risk places there are two of us so one guards the bikes while the other shops.
On campsites, as well as locking them we also cover the bikes - thieves like to be able to see what they plan to nick - covered they don't there isn't a high security lock.
Supermarkets often have a local tramp/beggar outside - make a point of putting bikes near him, and saying hello (in whatever language) and if begging drop him a euro - everyone knows him, and crims know he would recognize them.
Generally avoid "dangerous feeling" places - in a great many months touring around much of Europe I have encountered few places as dangerous for bikes as parts of our local city.

As far as insurance is concerned, I have never seen a policy that would actually pay out if we were victims of crime on a long tour - there are so many restrictions on the security measures you are supposed to take that you cannot comply with on a long tour, so we just go without.


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## robing (6 Apr 2020)

Lightweight locks and cables for me too. It's mainly a deterrent. If I'm in accommodation bike will be in secure storage or preferably the room. Camping can be a potential issue depending on where you are. You can always take the bike with you if you have to go out. Wild camping rarely a problem. Supermarket I lock in full view, usually the windows are large and you can keep half an eye on the bike while you shop, I'm not in the shop for long anyway. If I'm not actually on the bike I try to keep it as close by as possible!


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## RobinS (6 Apr 2020)

The most difficult times we have had have been when we have camped near cities, and taken a day off from cycling to see the tourist sights - for example when we camped about 10km from the centre of Bratislava, and visited the city by tram for a day. We covered and locked the bikes, but also made sure to say hello to the people camping nearby, so those around would know they were our bikes, and hopefully intervene if an interloper started to interfere with them. Do need to always remember that the very large majority of people are honest and would try to prevent a theft.


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## Iainj837 (19 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I use this when I'm touring - not too heavy and quite robust. Hopefully will fit in one you your bike packs:
> 
> View attachment 504211
> 
> ...


This is the type I have 👍


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## mikeIow (4 Dec 2020)

Interesting topic.
I will be on a solo jaunt next year (COVID-permitting!), and certainly plan to take a cable lock at the least. 
I won’t have the luxury of a buddy to keep an eye on the bike when I’m popping in shop/cafe or to the loo 

I have a hefty D-lock, but it is big and heavy, not so sure about dropping that in too.
Was wondering about the likes of this kind of alarm lock: fit bikes as well as motorbikes.
Yes, they look fairly easy to break, and look to add around 600-700g, but they look small to pop in bar bag & the noise might make it a deterrent?

The waist locks are another option, but another hefty price.

I will almost certainly do some camping: have a tunnel tent with some ‘porch’ space, I suspect dragging a wheel under that might help prevent drunk or opportunist thieves from taking it.... 

Welcome any thoughts


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## Blue Hills (4 Dec 2020)

Your link doesn't seem to go to anything specific.
I am wary of ANY cable lock, see them as almost an invitation to thieves.
I would take a dlock.
Might be worth considering an onguard neon.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.OnGuard-Neon-U-Lock_107973.htm

I use one touring and for some shopping.
Lighter. A bit of a bluff as I don't see them as too much of a challenge to a thief but at least they look like a d lock. An idea to black tape over any more colourful bits maybe as they advertise the use of some plastics.
I tend to tour on old looking bike which helps.
I also use panniers. Can't help but wondering if a bikepacking set up, particularly at the fashionable end (i saw one guy and his set-up once that looked as if he should be on a catwalk) attracts thieves more than a bike with a mountain of junk on the back. Embrace your inner tramp


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## mjr (4 Dec 2020)

When I looked in 2018, the lightest Gold lock on the LFGSS recommended list was the OnGuard Brute X4 at 1.2kg. Any recent lock beat it?

Another option is to get insurance not demanding Gold. Mine only requires locked to a fixed object or in a garage, but I use a big lock because theft is a shoot way to end a tour.


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## mikeIow (4 Dec 2020)

Odd, @Blue Hills, the link looks okay to me - google "FD-MOTO 110dB Alarm Disc Brake Lock" to see what i was talking about.
Had a pal have his bike nicked in Leicester fairly recently....in broad daylight in the city centre. I just wonder if an alarmed thing might help prevent that kind of thing.
Yes, I have a D-Lock - is that OnGuard one especially lightweight? Can't see any details, even on their own website!

Also wondering about the folding type of locks - more flexible around larger lampposts. Still chunky....but that is the price of security!

I like the idea of embracing my inner tramp....I suspect after a few days on the road, that might become de rigour


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## Blue Hills (4 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> Odd, @Blue Hills, the link looks okay to me - google "FD-MOTO 110dB Alarm Disc Brake Lock" to see what i was talking about.
> Had a pal have his bike nicked in Leicester fairly recently....in broad daylight in the city centre. I just wonder if an alarmed thing might help prevent that kind of thing.
> Yes, I have a D-Lock - is that OnGuard one especially lightweight? Can't see any details, even on their own website!
> 
> ...


link OK for me now - i was on a maybe dodgy tab before.
If you like I can weigh my neon lock.
It's not superlight but is lighter than my old Abus D lock which I would tend to use if locking up in central london.

As for alarms, I also have one - not a lock, just an alarm - it's damn loud though haen't used it yet - can try to dig out details of it if you are interested.

On your additional point on folding locks, I wouldn't use one from any manufacturer - I have the impression that they are more expensive than they should be for the level of security offered - and that they are non too secure anyway - all those joins.


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## mikeIow (4 Dec 2020)

Yes, I think some simple alarm (locking or otherwise!) might be a useful addition for the solo cyclist.

Just checked - my D-lock is a Kryptonite Kryptolok Series 2....but quite old: 2012, silver rated.....so although it is 1,143g of solid goodness, probably no more secure than some of today's folding locks!


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## gcogger (4 Dec 2020)

mjr said:


> When I looked in 2018, the lightest Gold lock on the LFGSS recommended list was the OnGuard Brute X4 at 1.2kg. Any recent lock beat it?


My Abus Ultimate 420 is 1100g (without the extra cable) and is Sold Secure Gold rated - not sure what the LFGSS recommended list is. They do a smaller version at 900g, but the one I have is the 'full size' version.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Dec 2020)

Bike packing is just meant to be lightweight touring isn’t it? So naturally a lightweight lock 🔐 if any at all.


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## mjr (4 Dec 2020)

gcogger said:


> My Abus Ultimate 420 is 1100g (without the extra cable) and is Sold Secure Gold rated - not sure what the LFGSS recommended list is. They do a smaller version at 900g, but the one I have is the 'full size' version.


https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/144109/ and that's not on it, probably because it's only 13mm diameter. Whether it's still worth using depends on whether your primary aim is to satisfy insurers or seriously reduce the risk of theft.


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## gcogger (4 Dec 2020)

mjr said:


> https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/144109/ and that's not on it, probably because it's only 13mm diameter. Whether it's still worth using depends on whether your primary aim is to satisfy insurers or seriously reduce the risk of theft.


Thanks for the link. Everything on there looks very heavy, which I guess is inevitable. Even the OnGuard Brute X4 you mentioned is shown as 1.864kgs, if you can trust the weights there. I guess the Abus Granit X-Plus 540 at 1.4kg looks the lightest, though that's 13mm too.


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## mikeIow (5 Dec 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Bike packing is just meant to be lightweight touring isn’t it? So naturally a lightweight lock 🔐 if any at all.


Admirable plan....until it turns into a walking holiday ‘cos the bike is nicked


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## ColinJ (5 Dec 2020)

gcogger said:


> Even the OnGuard Brute X4 you mentioned is shown as 1.864kgs, if you can trust the weights there.


I've got one. I'll weigh it for you... ok, it is 1.62 kg for the lock itself, which feels pretty heavy when you have to lug it about. If you included the mounting bracket it would be nearer the 1.864 kg quoted. I only used the bracket once and then chucked it - the heavy lock just didn't feel secure enough in it.

I think the Brute is about as big and tough as most people would be prepared to carry any distance, but even that lock would probably only protect for 1-2 minutes against someone with the right tools who was determined to get the bike.

I only leave a bike locked up outside the local supermarket, and that is my homemade singlespeed bike worth only £100 or so. I wouldn't leave my more expensive bikes anywhere out of sight even with the Brute On-guard!


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## Tigerbiten (6 Dec 2020)

I've gone the lightweight route with an small aluminium D lock.
That plus a padlock and a couple of 5' cables are lighter than my steel D lock. 
I know it's about as good as hard cheese if some scrote attacks it.
But it looks the part, so a good deterrent against a causal thief.
So I think it fine in what I think are low/medium risk areas where it probably won't get attacked.
But I probably wouldn't want risk it in what I thought was a high risk area.

YMMV .........


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Dec 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I only leave a bike locked up outside the local supermarket, and that is my homemade singlespeed bike worth only £100 or so. I wouldn't leave my more expensive bikes anywhere out of sight even with the Brute On-guard!



Exactly the same as me, except my "good" bikes that I don't ever leave unattended anywhere are the £100 ones and the beaters that I will leave parked are only worth £20 on a good day.
What @ColinJ and I both are doing is risk management. We know that even the baddest heaviest D-locks are only going to resist an angle grinder for a couple of minutes, so instead of buying into the bike security arms race, instead we simply remove the criminal profit available by not leaving items of substantial value unattended.
My locks are not intended to stop professional bike pilferers, as there is no money in hack bikes. They are there partly for a visual deterrent and partly to stop casual ride-away theft where some drunk wants a free ride home or a junkie enough for a hit of drugs.
The other thing I do is only use nutted axle wheels on any bike I leave parked. QR's are the criminal's best friend. I've lost count of the number of locked bikes I've seen where the front wheel got stolen, and the number of solitary QR front wheels I've seen locked to railings where the rest of the bike went missing.


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## Blue Hills (6 Dec 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The other thing I do is only use nutted axle wheels on any bike I leave parked. QR's are the criminal's best friend. I've lost count of the number of locked bikes I've seen where the front wheel got stolen, and the number of solitary QR front wheels I've seen locked to railings where the rest of the bike went missing.


Bugs me that the sellers of various security skewers insist on you buying a pair front and back. No great point on the rear as my D lock will be through it. I'd rather have two fronts.
In London I lock my front wheel with a small semi-bluffy decathlon D lock.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Dec 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Bugs me that the sellers of various security skewers insist on you buying a pair front and back. No great point on the rear as my D lock will be through it. I'd rather have two fronts.
> In London I lock my front wheel with a small semi-bluffy decathlon D lock.



The issue I have with D-locks is the added weight, and some riders with valuable machines locked in dodgy areas are having to resort to using two of the things.
If you think about it, the main difference between cheap bikes and very expensive ones is the latter typically weigh a few pounds less - but because they are so sought after by thieves the rider ends up having to lug a couple of hefty locks around that pretty much negates all the weight they saved by buying an expensive bike. They might as well have bought a much cheaper bike that weighs a bit more, carry a lighter lock, and end up with roughly the same overall weight but only risking losing a fraction of the money if it does get stolen. I appreciate the inconvenience of a bike going AWOL is a factor but there really is a bike value ceiling when it comes to leaving them unattended.


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## Blue Hills (6 Dec 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The issue I have with D-locks is the added weight, and some riders with valuable machines locked in dodgy areas are having to resort to using two of the things.
> If you think about it, the main difference between cheap bikes and very expensive ones is the latter typically weigh a few pounds less - but because they are so sought after by thieves the rider ends up having to lug a couple of hefty locks around that pretty much negates all the weight they saved by buying an expensive bike. They might as well have bought a much cheaper bike that weighs a bit more, carry a lighter lock, and end up with roughly the same overall weight but only risking losing a fraction of the money if it does get stolen. I appreciate the inconvenience of a bike going AWOL is a factor but there really is a bike value ceiling when it comes to leaving them unattended.


agree.
I wouldn't leave an expensive bike but if I did I'd use two heavy locks, which as you say negates the weight gains of the bike. Possibly more than negates as the weight of the locks will be "deader"?


To clarify, that decathlon thing I referred to is quite light - it's a bit of a bluff - only cost me £3.50 in a sale


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## mikeIow (6 Dec 2020)

The weight is clearly the pain.
I'm curious why frame locks like this are not more widely used over here. Wondered that years ago when I was at Centre Parcs....& clearly they are "de rigour" as first line of defence in the Netherlands.
Yes, it won't stop someone picking the bike up, but I suspect for a loaded tourer, not a bad option?


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## Blue Hills (6 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> The weight is clearly the pain.
> I'm curious why frame locks like this are not more widely used over here. Wondered that years ago when I was at Centre Parcs....& clearly they are "de rigour" as first line of defence in the Netherlands.
> Yes, it won't stop someone picking the bike up, but I suspect for a loaded tourer, not a bad option?


I have thought of one of those for a tourer but never got round to figuring which variant I might need - and also potential rack and luggage interference.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Dec 2020)

The frame locks are really just a casual ride-off theft deterrent, and the sort of bikes they are most commonly fitted to are heavy steel roadsters, which are not easy to carry any distance with a wheel off the ground.
The big problem is professional bike thieves generally have transit van transport nearby, so if you want to prevent a parked bike being nicked you really have to lock it to an immovable object. Wheel locks and the old fashioned fork locks used on some Raleigh 3-speeds are really just short duration convenience locks for popping in a small shop for a couple of minutes where the bike is right outside the window. I wouldn't rely on them if the bike is out of my line of vision.


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## mjr (6 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> The weight is clearly the pain.
> I'm curious why frame locks like this are not more widely used over here. Wondered that years ago when I was at Centre Parcs....& clearly they are "de rigour" as first line of defence in the Netherlands.
> Yes, it won't stop someone picking the bike up, but I suspect for a loaded tourer, not a bad option?


The drawbacks are UK shops are crap at including the measurements needed to tell whether it will fit, even if it does fit at first then a later change of rim might mean it doesn't any longer, you don't really have the option of leaving it at home if you're not locking anywhere, plus you pretty much need one for each bike.

The ones with alarmed plugin lassos to secure to a parking stand seem good.


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## mikeIow (7 Dec 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The frame locks are really just a casual ride-off theft deterrent, and the sort of bikes they are most commonly fitted to are *heavy steel roadsters, which are not easy to carry any distance with a wheel off the ground.*
> The big problem is professional bike thieves generally have transit van transport nearby, so if you want to prevent a parked bike being nicked you really have to lock it to an immovable object. Wheel locks and the old fashioned fork locks used on some Raleigh 3-speeds are really just short duration convenience locks for popping in a small shop for a couple of minutes where the bike is right outside the window. I wouldn't rely on them if the bike is out of my line of vision.


Or heavy, loaded tourers perhaps 
I do appreciate a professional thief will get the bike. Just looking to minimise the chances of chancers 



mjr said:


> The drawbacks are UK shops are crap at including the measurements needed to tell whether it will fit, even if it does fit at first then a later change of rim might mean it doesn't any longer, you don't really have the option of leaving it at home if you're not locking anywhere, plus you pretty much need one for each bike.
> 
> The ones with alarmed plugin lassos to secure to a parking stand seem good.


I’m mostly concerned with one bike, & I think the details aren’t to bad to figure out a fit. 
Not so sure about the lasso being integrated....unless it is also well rated (which, of course, equals more weight!)
Maybe a separate folding lock or similar might do the job. Even some movement alarm to draw attention to any nefarious scrote
Found an interesting review here. Despite being broken, looks like it mostly did the job 

Maybe I’m overthinking this (he says, typing this at 7am!)


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## acuna_read (7 Dec 2020)

gcogger said:


> I guess the Abus Granit X-Plus 540 at 1.4kg looks the lightest, though that's 13mm too.


I have the mini version of this which comes in at 1.224kg according to the kitchen scales. Its a bit trickier to get rear wheel and frame locked together but feels much more secure when you do, I never bother with mounts as always found them useless so just gets put in the pannier or rucksack. You cant even tilt the bike away from the rail/rack at all when locked up. Been consideering my bike packing options and will take this and maybe a cable in future although I know from experiencing and poor locking technique the cables are easily cut! I use two locks normally (another longer older abus which I leave at work) as well as pitlock axles though. The joys of living in south london!


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## snorri (7 Dec 2020)

My longer distance touring days are over so I'm not worried about antagonising the lock equivalent of the puncture fairy.
My first Lidl cable lock protected my bike on a LeJog in 1997 and although there have been lock replacements since, due mainly to losing keys, I've continued to rely on Lidls cable locks for security on cycle camping tours through fourteen European countries and the four nations of the UK since '97 and Mr Lidl has not let me down.
Make of that what you will.
PS Serious question, what's the difference between bikepacking and cycle touring?


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## chriswoody (7 Dec 2020)

snorri said:


> PS Serious question, what's the difference between bikepacking and cycle touring?



Blimey you're going to be opening a can of worms with that one! 

My personal take is that essentially Bikepacking is a form of cycle touring. Cycle touring can be used to describe any multi day adventure trip where the bike is the primary means of transport. Within that description, you can then break it down further to more accurately describe the kind of touring you're doing. So kitchen sink touring, (with front and rear panniers, Tent and other kit on the racks etc), credit card touring, (A spare pair of undies and a credit card, staying in B&B's/hotels)

Bikepacking is a relatively new arrival on the scene and instead of panniers & racks, soft bags are used and in total you have about 45 litres of carrying capacity, so everything is ultra light weight. The primary purpose is so you can ride predominately off-road and adventurous trails and not be weighed down by the kit you are carrying. Though it can also be a useful way of carrying kit on a road bike that would otherwise have no provision for attaching pannier racks.

Essentially though, it's just a more detailed way of describing the kind of cycle touring you're doing.







On the subject of the original post, I've been using a kryptonite evolution mini 7 d-lock. It's a little heavy but easy to carry and effective.


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## snorri (7 Dec 2020)

From a kitchen sink tourist, thank you @chriswoody .


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## HobbesOnTour (7 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> Maybe I’m overthinking this (he says, typing this at 7am!)


I think you may be!

I posted in this thread's first life. A lot depends on context. 

I'd never leave my loaded bike out of my sight for an extended time such as at a museum. At a food stop I can generally leave it in sight. In a big city I generally have a secure place to stay (AirBnB etc.) that has a place for the bike. Drop bike, then explore.

I'd be wary of depending on alarms. Most people will just ignore them. I think a lot of us think that bike thieves are like us - at the first obstacle they are off! That's not so. Someone tried to pick my pocket last week and after I caught him and removed his hand he tried again! 

Bike security, in my experience, is one of those things that is easy to fixate on before you go. Once on the road, it's really not that big a deal. Asking for help or expressing concern, especially as a traveller, can open many doors, physical as well as metaphorical.


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## bitsandbobs (17 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> The weight is clearly the pain.
> I'm curious why frame locks like this are not more widely used over here. Wondered that years ago when I was at Centre Parcs....& clearly they are "de rigour" as first line of defence in the Netherlands.
> Yes, it won't stop someone picking the bike up, but I suspect for a loaded tourer, not a bad option?



I have one on my commuter bike. A couple of times I've left it outside my house and forgotten to take the key out of the ring lock, only to find that a kind person has posted the key through the letter box.


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## mikeIow (18 Dec 2020)

bitsandbobs said:


> I have one on my commuter bike. A couple of times I've left it outside my house and forgotten to take the key out of the ring lock, only to find that a kind person has posted the key through the letter box.


Mmmm....I get the advantage of always having the key, but I think I would have a version I can remove......otherwise there is too much risk of someone else locking it when I absent-mindedly forget!


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## matticus (18 Dec 2020)

Isn't that like worrying someone might steal the bike if you forget to lock it? There is an easy solution


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## mikeIow (18 Dec 2020)

matticus said:


> Isn't that like worrying someone might steal the bike if you forget to lock it? There is an easy solution


I know what you are saying, I think there is a subtle difference.
I can quite easily envisage me *occasionally* forgetting to lock it - I am sadly imperfect (despite what I tell people, of course!)

With no lock, someone would have to want to steal the bike.

With a key in the frame lock, someone might think it really funny to lock it and throw the key nearby for a joke. In their mind, they *haven't* stolen anything.....but for me, it would be as good as stolen, unless I have a spare handy.....


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## matticus (18 Dec 2020)

mikeIow said:


> unless I have a spare handy.....


ANOTHER easy solution!


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Dec 2020)

Why not just carry the key on a keyring with the rest of your keys? Is there something special about bike lock keys that means you have to carry them loose?

For casually locking up my hack bikes, I usually just carry a brass 4-wheel combination lock and a relatively light chain. That means I don't need to worry about having the right bunch of keys on me, and the bike is never left unlocked. OK, these locks are not high security but they will prevent casual ride-away thefts and if you're riding a £25 beater bike most of the time that's all the deterrent that's needed. Better bikes I simply don't leave out of my sight at all, so if I'm planning to stop midway between going from A to B then I choose a beater which has it's lock and chain left wrapped around the front end of the top and down tubes. The lock is kept on the bike, the combination is in my head. No key to get mislaid, no chance of going out and forgetting to take the lock with me.


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## matticus (18 Dec 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Why not just carry the key on a keyring with the rest of your keys? Is there something special about bike lock keys that means you have to carry them loose?


The keys on those locks travel in the lock.


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## HobbesOnTour (18 Dec 2020)

@mikelow
At the risk of repeating myself, there's a risk you're moving on from "researching" to catastrophising.

If you're thinking of mainly travelling in the UK, I think it's a safe bet that most people won't be aware of those types of lock. Unless the key is bright & noticeable, the chance of leaving it in a place, at the same time as such a joker, for a sufficient amount of time that they actually lock and throw away the key is miniscule.
A statistician could probably draw up a list of far more serious things that are more likely to happen!

If you're going to be travelling in Europe where those locks are more common, the "joke" has a whole lot less impact.

The simplest way to avoid key anxiety is to use combination locks.

One winter evening I pulled up outside a supermarket in the western suburbs of Rotterdam. A group of young lads were hanging around that made me a bit nervous. I avoided the normal bike parking area in favour of a bright streetlight opposite the door. With cold fingers I struggled to lock the bike. (It was my commuter too, so had a big, heavy chain lock).
Removed my handlebar bag and did my shopping, constantly nipping to the door to check the bike.
Eventually got back to the bike, the lads only a few meters away. There, on my rackbag was my gps and my phone - right where I'd left them!😊
I was mortified and felt more than a little guilty.

There are, of course, many sensible steps that can be taken and they vary depending on bike, load and location, covered here and elsewhere. However, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of reasons to not tour. 
Once the "perfect" lock is in your possession, the danger is that you can't disembark until you have the perfect tent/gps/pillow......

Nothing wrong with being sensible, but I'd urge against thinking too much.

Or as someone smarter than me put it "Pack for your dreams, not your nightmares".

Good luck!


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## andrew_s (18 Dec 2020)

matticus said:


> The keys on those locks travel in the lock.


I had an N'lock a while back, which was a key-in-the-lock to ride lock.
With the key out, the handlebars are not rotationally coupled to the front wheel, so the bike is unrideable. I tried once, by accident, and got all of two feet before falling off.

The problem I found was that as the lock is on the bike, it's not on the keyring with the front door key etc. When you get somewhere, despite good intentions, it can sometimes end up somewhere where you can't find it when it's time to leave. 
It might be in a pocket of the jacket you took off and put in the saddlebag on arrival, you might have put it on the bar whilst you got your money out, etc etc.


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## mikeIow (18 Dec 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> @mikelow
> At the risk of repeating myself, there's a risk you're moving on from "researching" to catastrophising.
> 
> <& some good stuff>



But...but....I like to obsess about things, it's what keeps me (in)sane


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