# Mudguards like them dislike them useful or unnecessary?



## Accy cyclist (30 Jul 2012)

I made a comment about mudguards on the roadkill thread. I was only joking, but i think that i touched a raw nerve with some. I only cycle for fun and exercise so therefore i wear cycle clothing so if it gets wet so be it, i have a shower when i get home and throw the cycle clothes in the wash, but i can understand the commuters who have to work after their journey not wanting to sit or stand all day with wet,splattered feet and legs.
What are your thoughts about mudguards?


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## snorri (30 Jul 2012)

An essential part of my bicycle, not only for the weather protection they provide, but for the sake of appearance. Cycling without mudguards is on a par with tucking your trousers in to your socks.


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## MrJamie (31 Jul 2012)

I cant think of a reason not to put them on, no need to get filthy.


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## Melonfish (31 Jul 2012)

Essential to keep a clean bike and a clean back!


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## I like Skol (31 Jul 2012)

As a youngster I used to think mudguards were for old men. In my late 30's I started to commute by bike a few times a week and once I bought a dedicated commuter to relieve my MTB for it's intended purpose I wasted little time in sticking on some mudguards. That was nearly 2 years ago and they haven't been off since! Best thing since sliced bread (and I am still not quite 40 ).


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## marzjennings (31 Jul 2012)

I'm over 40 and I've never seen the point of mudguards. On the mountain bike they just reduce mud clearance and cause the wheels to get stuck. On the road bike they don't seem to do a great job of stopping the rain falling on my head. If I want to stay dry I wear water proofs. 

The again I like getting filthy ducky and cycle maintenance is how I chill out.


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## Accy cyclist (31 Jul 2012)

snorri said:


> An essential part of my bicycle, not only for the weather protection they provide, but for the sake of appearance. Cycling without mudguards is on a par with tucking your trousers in to your socks.


 
Many would say the opposite about appearance. Would mudguards look right on those road bikes on the "Lust after"thread?


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## I like Skol (31 Jul 2012)

marzjennings said:


> I'm over 40 and I've never seen the point of mudguards. On the mountain bike they just reduce mud clearance and cause the wheels to get stuck. On the road bike they don't seem to do a great job of stopping the rain falling on my head. If I want to stay dry I wear water proofs.
> 
> The again I like getting filthy ducky and cycle maintenance is how I chill out.


 
Horses for courses!!!!

Obviously no guards on an MTB. Also never on that sunny day road bike, but the workhorse, all weather, do-it-all bike then absolutely. Who can possibly like having the filthy road traffic mucky water thrown up in their eyes when cycling in the rain?


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## Sara_H (31 Jul 2012)

I've recently changed from using my fully mudguarded hybrid to my mountain bike with one of those strap on mudguards. 
In the recent spell of heavy rain I REALLY missed my proper mudguards, once or twice I could barely open my eyes for all the spray coming up at me. 
I'm now working out how to get a full mudguards onto a mountain bike with a suspension fork!


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## slowmotion (31 Jul 2012)

snorri said:


> An essential part of my bicycle, not only for the weather protection they provide, but for the sake of appearance. Cycling without mudguards is on a par with tucking your trousers in to your socks.


 Mudguards are simply not cool. Tucking your trousers into a 20 year old pair of rambling socks most certainly is.

An OMIL has spoken.


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## summerdays (31 Jul 2012)

I usually smile when I see cyclists with a badger stripe of mud/road muck along their back and derrière, and think thank goodness I have mudguards. The other problem is if you are following a cyclist without mudguards on a wet day - you either end up dropping back or having to overtake.


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## black'n'yellow (31 Jul 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> Would mudguards look right on those road bikes on the "Lust after"thread?


 
no, but then 50mm carbon tubs would not look right on my winter bike either.


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## lordloveaduck (31 Jul 2012)

Trying to explain why your spread eagled under the hand drier takes to long to explain....plus they never
believe you any how


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## MattHB (31 Jul 2012)

Always on the commuter. Raceblades on the roadie when it's damp


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## uphillstruggler (31 Jul 2012)

Fetching mine back from the shed today.

Mud guards and overshoes.


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## MarkF (31 Jul 2012)

Have some £4 Asda ones on my trekking/shopping/towpath bike, I don't mind wet but I don't like wet mud. Don't have them on my other bikes because I don't find them aesthetically pleasing and I don't care about "wet".

Oh, have a black Dahon D7, that has black mudguards and it looks "right", I don't know why...........


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## Kiwiavenger (31 Jul 2012)

definatly love my mudguards, however i managed to break the rear one a little bit so need to fix it sharpish!

definatly a necessity when your in the country and the fields are muddy which the local farmers carefully spread with their tractor tyres. lol


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## SquareDaff (31 Jul 2012)

Proper mudguards are a god send in wet weather - and if they hug the wheels then they don't detract from the appearance of the bike. The only downside is they get in the way a little if you're putting your bike in the back of the car. Taking a QR wheel off makes no difference. as there's still half a wheel sized object there!!


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## Mike! (31 Jul 2012)

I have full guards fitted to my commuter all year round and wouldn't be without them, more often than not it's not actually raining on my commute but puddles galore means I'm still dry with them fitted. Keeps my luggage cleaner than without them (and my luggage often has work clothes in so they need to be decent!).

Don't have them on my "best bike" though and if i'm out for a ride on that (not work) i don't really care if i get really wet / dirty (although i don't take it out if it's already raining!)


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## Cyclist33 (31 Jul 2012)

Sara_H said:


> I've recently changed from using my fully mudguarded hybrid to my mountain bike with one of those strap on mudguards.
> In the recent spell of heavy rain I REALLY missed my proper mudguards, once or twice I could barely open my eyes for all the spray coming up at me.
> I'm now working out how to get a full mudguards onto a mountain bike with a suspension fork!



With the strap ons, especially the front one, a cm fore or aft makes a big difference to how much spray hits you in the face, I find...

Stu


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## Sandra6 (31 Jul 2012)

Once upon a time I thought all bikes had mudguards 
My apollo metis has them -of course it does - and I tend to use that for the cycle to work on wet days so I don't look a wreck when I get there. 
I wouldn't dream of putting them on the specialized vita though, it would just look wrong. 
To be fair though, I tend to avoid cycling for fun if it's raining, because, well it wouldn't be much fun.


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## Cubist (31 Jul 2012)

Crud roadracer 2 s on my Cube Peloton, they don't exactly spoil its looks, and my back, arse and feet stay drier in this summer weather. The bike isn't liberally sprayed with filth onto the front mech and BB either.


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## Moodyman (31 Jul 2012)

Mudguards essential (in my opinion) for all weather commuters.

Keep clothes and drivetrain clean...and... in sub-zero temperatures, they drastically reduce the airflow thrown back by the front wheel. When I added full mudguards to my commuter half-way into my first winter, I noticed my toes were thankful.


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## MissTillyFlop (31 Jul 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> I made a comment about mudguards on the roadkill thread. I was only joking, but i think that i touched a raw nerve with some. I only cycle for fun and exercise so therefore i wear cycle clothing so if it gets wet so be it, i have a shower when i get home and throw the cycle clothes in the wash, but i can understand the commuters who have to work after their journey not wanting to sit or stand all day with wet,splattered feet and legs.
> What are your thoughts about mudguards?


 
They're good whilst they last, but in my experience they end up going wrong and prompt a lot of fannying around that I simply cannot be bothered with.

If I didn't have a shower at work though, would defintely have them.


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## Jefferson Meriwether (31 Jul 2012)

snorri said:


> Cycling without mudguards is on a par with tucking your trousers in to your socks.


 
I'm in the habit of tucking my trousers in my socks when I go out cycling


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## Maylian (31 Jul 2012)

Personally I don't use them on my commuter / road bike since I don't like the look of them. That would change if I wasn't able to get showered and changed at work though. On my hybrid I use a rear one only (strap on  ) as I don't think it looks out of place.


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## smokeysmoo (31 Jul 2012)

Don't like them but they are without doubt useful.

I use full length guards on my Ribble but wouldn't entertain them on my CAAD.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## snorri (31 Jul 2012)

I like Skol said:


> As a youngster I used to think mudguards were for old men............... Best thing since sliced bread (and I am still not quite 40 ).


So really, nothing has changed in the world, the youngsters today will see you as an old man (at "nearly 40"!! )with mudguards. .


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## Night Train (31 Jul 2012)

I prefer them. The front one keeps muck off my BB and me, the rear one keeps muck off my pannier and me and following cyclists.

However, if you ride a bike only on clean, dry roads, or in the velodrome, you may want to dispense with them.

When I took the Ratrike for a ride on some grass I got dog mess in my face. Mudguards were the very next modification.


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## lulubel (31 Jul 2012)

Not necessary on the road bike where I live. On the rare occasions it's raining when I want to go for a ride, I take the mountain bike. (Opportunities to get it wet and mucky are so rare that I have to take them when they come up.)

If I was commuting or touring, it would be a different matter, and I'd say definitely essential.

I really don't like the look of mudguards on road bikes, but I think a tourer would look naked without them.


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## Pat "5mph" (31 Jul 2012)

marzjennings said:


> I'm over 40 and I've never seen the point of mudguards. On the mountain bike they just reduce mud clearance and cause the wheels to get stuck. On the road bike they don't seem to do a great job of stopping the rain falling on my head. If I want to stay dry I wear water proofs.
> 
> The again I like getting filthy ducky and cycle maintenance is how I chill out.


 
Also you don't live in Scotland


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## Pat "5mph" (31 Jul 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> Many would say the opposite about appearance. Would mudguards look right on those road bikes on the "Lust after"thread?


Yes, my lust after bike comes with them


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## Arjimlad (31 Jul 2012)

I fit them for the winter months and remove them for the summer months. Just a bit unsure which are which at the moment though !


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2012)

I like Skol said:


> Horses for courses!!!!
> 
> Obviously no guards on an MTB. Also never on that sunny day road bike, but the workhorse, all weather, do-it-all bike then absolutely. Who can possibly like having the filthy road traffic mucky water thrown up in their eyes when cycling in the rain?


 
+1 - workbike gets guards all year - never removed in 3 years. 2 road bikes can't take them due to tight clearances, and that's the way they have stayed for 20 years.

MTB just get's splash guards for winter when it's used for ICE duties - keeps the salt out of the headset !


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## marzjennings (31 Jul 2012)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Also you don't live in Scotland


 
True enough, I haven't had to deal with persistently wet conditions for years and most of my riding today is either for sport or pleasure. I don't commute by bike everyday like I used to.

I'll step back from my opinion of totally useless and say I would have mudguards for the pub bike to avoid the lovely mud line up the back of the shirt.


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## MontyVeda (31 Jul 2012)

i make do with a crud catcher on the downtube and half a mudguard cable-tied under my rear rack... as long as my face and back don't get splattered, I'm not that bothered.


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## Piemaster (31 Jul 2012)

Commuter - I commute in Aberdeen, so yes 
Xtracycled MTB come utility/shopper - yup
carbon road bike - are you mad? NEVER!!


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## byegad (31 Jul 2012)

For me riding only when it's dry you can get away without them, but if you may ride on wet roads they are worth every panny and gram they cost. One of my rides has a rear guard only the others have all three wheels fitted with guards.


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## Dave 123 (31 Jul 2012)

Mudguards ruin the appearance of road bikes-FACT
They are the equivalent of wearing a flat cap, which seem to be en vogue amongst a certain section of society...... and have you seen these young lads with elasticated bottomed jeans and ladies slip on shoes?! ssomeone should have a word with them!


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## Hacienda71 (31 Jul 2012)

Guards in the winter reduce the amount of crap on your front mech. In the rain they keep your backside a lot drier and if you are riding in a group, it is very unpleasant riding behind a bike without guards in the wet. Some clubs insist you have them.


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## 172traindriver (31 Jul 2012)

Got them on the winter bike, and consider them essential for the preservation of the bike, kepping myself cleaner, and keeping my riding partners as friends 
Haven't got them on the best summer bikes, so just yearn for our famous hot and sunny summers?


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## middleagecyclist (31 Jul 2012)

Full length with flaps on the tourer/commuter and I will be getting guards on the steel audax bike next year as well. None (even crud catchers) on the MTB and nothing on the CF RB. Depends what you are cycling for really.


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## Piemaster (31 Jul 2012)

Dave 123 said:


> Mudguards ruin the appearance of road bikes-FACT
> They are the equivalent of wearing a flat cap, which seem to be en vogue amongst a certain section of society...... and have you seen these young lads with elasticated bottomed jeans and ladies slip on shoes?! ssomeone should have a word with them!


 
+1 on road bikes / mudguards
As for the shoes. Errr.. I've been sporting these recently:


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## Peteaud (31 Jul 2012)

Roadbike - no
MTB - no

Everyday bike - soon to be fitted


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## marshmella (31 Jul 2012)

Canal towpath commuting = mudguards essential. I left the front one off after some fettling...just for one day, never again!


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## black'n'yellow (31 Jul 2012)

Dave 123 said:


> Mudguards ruin the appearance of road bikes-FACT


 
not been out riding much over the winter then..?


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## Dave 123 (31 Jul 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> not been out riding much over the winter then..?


 

.......Commuted most days through the winter. What's a wet bum and some grit up your back? I spend alot of my life looking grubby, I'm used to it!


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## black'n'yellow (31 Jul 2012)

Dave 123 said:


> .......Commuted most days through the winter. What's a wet bum and some grit up your back? I spend alot of my life looking grubby, I'm used to it!


 
long commute?


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## boydj (31 Jul 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> Guards in the winter reduce the amount of crap on your front mech. In the rain they keep your backside a lot drier and if you are riding in a group it is very unpleasant riding behind a bike without guards in the wet. Some clubs insist you have them.


If you are a regular, all-weather commuter, mudguards are essential to minimise wear and tear on the bike, and to make life a bit more pleasant for the rider when the weather is bad.

My club is one of those with a winter club runs rule - mandatory mudguards from October to the end of March. There's a lot of farm waste on some of the roads we use.


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## dave r (31 Jul 2012)

Full mudguards on the fixed I commute on, including mudflaps, summer best bike a pair of skinny mudguards, I wouldn't want to ride a bike without them.


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## potsy (31 Jul 2012)

Full guards with DIY flaps on the CX commuter, Raceblades on the road bike.
Very rarely take them off unless there's going to be a long spell of dry weather (yeah right)


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## slowmotion (31 Jul 2012)

Slightly off topic, but has anybody got a link for that nifty little thing that acts as a mudguard and slips between the saddle rails? 

Thank you.


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2012)

Dave 123 said:


> Mudguards ruin the appearance of road bikes-FACT
> They are the equivalent of wearing a flat cap, which seem to be en vogue amongst a certain section of society...... and have you seen these young lads with elasticated bottomed jeans and ladies slip on shoes?! ssomeone should have a word with them!


 
Whereas not "wearing" mudguards is the equivalent of the emperor's new clothes.


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## PpPete (31 Jul 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Slightly off topic, but has anybody got a link for that nifty little thing that acts as a mudguard and slips between the saddle rails?
> 
> Thank you.


http://ass-savers.com/

Incidentally the Brooks compatible version is in process and will be available later this year (per email from Staffan Weigel)


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## slowmotion (31 Jul 2012)

Thank you Pete.


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## Accy cyclist (1 Aug 2012)

marzjennings said:


> True enough, I haven't had to deal with persistently wet conditions for years and most of my riding today is either for sport or pleasure. I don't commute by bike everyday like I used to.
> 
> I'll step back from my opinion of totally useless and say I would have mudguards for the pub bike to avoid the lovely mud line up the back of the shirt.


That's a good enough excuse, i'm getting some for my pub bike asap.


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## Accy cyclist (1 Aug 2012)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Yes, my lust after bike comes with them


 It must be flat where you live Pat. I live in "hilly" east Lancashire where the only flat bits have housing estates, or industrial ones built on them. I couldn't imagine peddling dare i say a shopping bike? The last time i saw someone riding your lust after was in Lytham St Annes. Very posh, and very flat!


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## Accy cyclist (1 Aug 2012)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Yes, my lust after bike comes with them


 It must be flat where you live Pat. I live in "hilly" east Lancashire where the only flat bits have housing estates, or industrial ones built on them. I couldn't imagine peddling dare i say a shopping bike? The last time i saw someone riding your lust after was in Lytham St Annes. Very posh, and very flat!


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## akb (1 Aug 2012)

On the MTB, no. One of the many reasons I enjoy MTB trails is due to the fact that I get nice and dirty when out. Plus they look silly on a MTB (IMHO of course!)
On the commuter, yes. I get changed at work (in to my work gear). When its time to leave to come home, there is nothing worse than putting on wet clothes from 8 hours ago. Unfortunately I have no drying facilities at work.


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

I've took mine off, Dont like the look of them plus if its wet, im wet to, with or without guards, but I only ride on the road, If I was on a MB and off road, Id deffently have them on!


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## tyred (1 Aug 2012)

It amazes me that "fashion" can sell people the idea that it is undesirable to ride a bike that is fitted with mudguards (or even frames that can't take mudguards for no other reason than fashion). 

They keep me clean, they keep the bike clean, the major components on the bike will last longer. Unless you are actually racing, I can't think of a reason not to have them and I would simply never even consider buying a frame which doesn't have room for mudguards.


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## theclaud (1 Aug 2012)

PpPete said:


> http://ass-savers.com/
> 
> Incidentally the Brooks compatible version is in process and will be available later this year (per email from Staffan Weigel)


 
I might get one in "Crazy Black". Totally nuts, man.


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## Crackle (1 Aug 2012)

I always used Crudguards on my mtn bike but never really thought the front one did much, until I hired a few bikes without and found my face covered in mud. I revised my opinion after that.


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## theclaud (1 Aug 2012)

Crackle said:


> I always used Crudguards on my mtn bike but never really thought the front one did much, until I hired a few bikes without and found my face covered in mud. I revised my opinion after that.


 
What you want is a Neoguard:


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## Crackle (1 Aug 2012)

PpPete said:


> http://ass-savers.com/
> 
> Incidentally the Brooks compatible version is in process and will be available later this year (per email from Staffan Weigel)


That would surely have to be re-named the smartarse if it was for a Brooks saddle.


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

I wouldnt think its "Fashion" for not to wear mub guards, ive never saw models walk down the cat walk with a bike on their back without mud guards, cyclists are deffently not cool, lycra and helmets, i know I look a complete tit, I just want my bike with the least amount of crap added onto it, I clean my bike when I get home.


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## Crackle (1 Aug 2012)

theclaud said:


> What you want is a Neoguard:


Does that work then, imagines where face is in comparison, it would wouldn't it, neat.


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## Boris Bajic (1 Aug 2012)

tyred said:


> It amazes me that "fashion" can sell people the idea that it is undesirable to ride a bike that is fitted with mudguards (or even frames that can't take mudguards for no other reason than fashion).
> 
> They keep me clean, they keep the bike clean, the major components on the bike will last longer. Unless you are actually racing, I can't think of a reason not to have them and I would simply never even consider buying a frame which doesn't have room for mudguards.


 
I am terribly unfashionable in almost every aspect of my appearance, but I eschew mudguards on all my bicycles. I'm not sure it's a fashion thing.

I have ridden off-road with both a rear crud catcher and a thingy under the downtube, but I found that neither offered as much protection as it promised. My MTBs are now as naked as my geared and fixed road bikes.

I wear eye protection and I generally keep my bicycles cleanish. I don't race or even look as if I might race. 

Despite being several kilos overweight, I go without on the basis of saved weight. Just because the argument isn't fashin-based doesn't mean it has to make sense.


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## theclaud (1 Aug 2012)

Crackle said:


> Does that work then, imagines where face is in comparison, it would wouldn't it, neat.



It does. And unlike Crudguards it doesn't look shoot. You can even get one with evil eyes on it, but that might be a bit much. They do several sizes, so check it's the right one for whatever fork you have.


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## srw (1 Aug 2012)

Crackle said:


> That would surely have to be re-named the smartarse if it was for a Brooks saddle.


 I'm half tempted to write to the complaints department (thecomplaintdepartment@ass-savers.com) pointing that here in Europe (they are a Swedish company) we have mudguards and arses, not fenders and asses.


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## theclaud (1 Aug 2012)

srw said:


> I'm half tempted to write to the complaints department (thecomplaintdepartment@ass-savers.com) pointing that here in Europe (they are a Swedish company) we have mudguards and arses, not fenders and asses.


 
Should they reply to pedant@inventoneyourselfandcallitanarsesaverifyoulike.co.uk? Mudguard is a bit of a misnomer anyway, as they are useless for mud, and are really dirty-water-guards.


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## Boris Bajic (1 Aug 2012)

One might ask why the mud needs to be guarded.


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## potsy (1 Aug 2012)

theclaud said:


> Should they reply to pedant@inventoneyourselfandcallitanarsesaverifyoulike.co.uk? Mudguard is a bit of a misnomer anyway, as they are useless for mud, and are really *dirty-water-guards*.


Can we refer to them as this from now on?


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## 400bhp (1 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> I wouldnt think its "Fashion" for not to wear mub guards, ive never saw models walk down the cat walk with a bike on their back without mud guards, cyclists are deffently not cool, lycra and helmets, i know I look a complete tit, I just want my bike with the least amount of crap added onto it, I clean my bike when I get home.


 
Is it fashionable to omit punctuation and grammar?


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Is it fashionable to omit punctuation and grammar?


 
Not really, As if you do it’s an attempt to display that your more Intellectual, thus in a way saying your better then someone, some think that this is an attempt to deflect the argument in topic, some even believe that it is an attempt to knock others down as they have low self esteem, seeking approval from others. 
Luckily your not so that’s ok,


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## 400bhp (1 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Not really, As if you do it’s an attempt to display that your more Intellectual, thus in a way saying your better then someone, some think that this is an attempt to deflect the argument in topic, some even believe that it is an attempt to knock others down as they have low self esteem, seeking approval from others.
> Luckily your not so that’s ok,


 
If you say so. Well, I think that's what you said.


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## Boris Bajic (1 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Not really, As if you do it’s an attempt to display that your more Intellectual, thus in a way saying your better then someone, some think that this is an attempt to deflect the argument in topic, some even believe that it is an attempt to knock others down as they have low self esteem, seeking approval from others.
> Luckily your not so that’s ok,


 
A good response.

However, you might want to pay a little more attention to your elided use of the present tense in the second person of verbs. The lazy reader might take your stylised contraction of _'you are'_ to be a possessive pronoun.

Further, your reliance on the comma to provide pauses in your first sentence may militate against clear comprehension of your intended meaning. Consider making more use of the semi-colon and perhaps a full stop..

Take care when using capital letters where they are unnecessary. Doing so can add unintended emphasis to a word or phrase.

Similarly, I find double spacing of paragraphs a helpful aid to comprehension, although there is a danger that too much of this will fill the Internet before we've invented its replacement.

Also, do make sure you avoid posts that seek to offer grammatical advice but are in reality just a lot of old bollocks.

I hope I have helped but fear I have not.


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> A good response.
> 
> However, you might want to pay a little more attention to your elided use of the present tense in the second person of verbs. The lazy reader might take your stylised contraction of _'you are'_ to be a possessive pronoun.
> 
> ...


 

No, I'm no good at English and never will, However I thank you for trying to help.



Also I don’t believe that bringing up Grammar and Spelling in a argument has its place, 

It’s simular to this.....imagine being in court.

"Yes, I did murder that person, but I’m afraid you did pronounce that word correctly when you tried to sentence me, so I must walk free! Muahhh haaa haaa!!” (Evil Laugh)


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## srw (1 Aug 2012)

theclaud said:


> Should they reply to pedant@inventoneyourselfandcallitanarsesaverifyoulike.co.uk?


 Yes, that should reach me.


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## 400bhp (1 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> No, I'm no good at English and never will, However I thank you for trying to help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Or, imagine being in court and the barristers couldn't get their point across in a clear manner.


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Or, imagine being in court and the barristers couldn't get their point across in a clear manner.


 
Or imagine that annoying fart who kept correcting everything.


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## 400bhp (1 Aug 2012)

Yeah imagine someone who couldn't spell because of stupidity.


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## Peter Armstrong (1 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Yeah imagine someone who couldn't spell because of stupidity.


 
Listen up 440bhp you big Vice President,

You're not necessarily uneducated if you don't spell or use grammar properly. Some people are very smart, but are lacking in their ability to write. You can see this characteristic in many analytical and math-based thinkers. e.g. engineers that can recite Calc 3 from the textbook, but I could beat a 12 year old at a spelling bee.


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## 400bhp (1 Aug 2012)

See-much better


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Aug 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> I couldn't imagine peddling dare i say a shopping bike?


You haven't met my Boris: he is a big boy! 
Actually the paper bike is really light compared to a standard hybrid. I've lifted it with one hand at a bike show, could not do that with Boris!
At £ 900, I'll carry on dreaming about .... my dream bike


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> No, I'm no good at English and never will,


 
Hey, no worries: I'm so pants at maths, can't do 2 sums without a calculator!


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## Ajay (1 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> A good response.
> 
> However, you might want to pay a little more attention to your elided use of the present tense in the second person of verbs. The lazy reader might take your stylised contraction of _'you are'_ to be a possessive pronoun.
> 
> ...


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## Dave 123 (1 Aug 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> long commute?


 

7 miles


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