# eBikes...mmm



## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

Before I start, I am ABSOLUTELY not being elitist or a cycling snob. I have NOTHING against eBikes - my running buddy got one and it has transformed her into a cyclist and has brought her so much pleasure. I love that I get to cycle with her. I'm trying to persuade my parents to get eBikes and I'm planning to get one myself when I'm older and need that extra support. 

However...

I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are a) obesity and b) climate. eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?


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## Oldhippy (17 Aug 2021)

I have been thinking that very thing myself.


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## cougie uk (17 Aug 2021)

I wouldn't worry about it. You still get a workout even with electric. 

If it gets more people out on bikes then that's a good thing.


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## numbnuts (17 Aug 2021)

> I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes


The mind is willing, but the body is weak.....


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## palinurus (17 Aug 2021)

If ebikes replace journeys which might otherwise be made in a car then the energy usage is going to be much smaller, I doubt there is even much difference between and ebike and an unassisted bicycle. You still need to pedal- I've done a few e-bike miles recently (using the local bikeshare bikes) and the appeal is immediate, really helps smooth out the hills.

I think ebikes could potentially help with a shift towards more cycling journeys made in the UK, although it's not going to be large without addressing infrastructure.


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## welsh dragon (17 Aug 2021)

A. Because they want one. B. Because they can afford one. C. Each to his or her own.

Maybe they want to cycle without being a hot sweaty mess. They want to enjoy a nice. leisurely ride.

We are all different and have different reasons for doing, buying, using different things. 

The most important thing is that people are out and about in the fresh air, enjoying themselves instead of being at home doing diddly squat. Any exercise is good exercise however and whatever you use to do it.


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## palinurus (17 Aug 2021)

E-assist is really helping to make cargo bikes into practical vehicles for a wider range of users.


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

numbnuts said:


> The mind is willing, but the body is weak.....


or the other way round...


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

Legal restricted ones fine...illegal derestricted ones not so much (essentially low powered motorbikes circumventing all licensing and VED rules).

I went to an e-bike demo event on Saturday and got to try a couple on the test track, which ended with a very steep hill. I was surprised how much effort was needed even on full assist and in a low gear to get up said hill (I might have got up it on a normal bike in a low gear, don't know). I have to say on the flat, I didn't like the assistance much at all although I guess you'd get used to it, or turn it right down. And most are super heavy (23kg seems commonplace), even the high cost, lightest are 15kg

I didn't ride it on the track, but Specialized were there with a carbon Di2 Creo gravel bike...that was rather nice but a mere 7k ... but it has opened my eyes to Di2 

If my knees get worse or I move somewhere hilly, I could be tempted but I'll stick with self powered bikes for now (as I have 5 ). I'm also not sure why a keen fit leisure cyclist would have one for recreational rides, commuters, delivery riders it makes more sense but each to their own


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Aug 2021)

My sister has an e bike to keep up with her husband. Means they get out together rather ride separately. Depending where someone lives it may mean they can put a decent loop together rather a shorter less satisfying one. Meaning they get out more.

I have stronger opinions on people using a car for short local trips than e bike. Plus an e bike doesn’t obstruct the road when not in use.


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## numbnuts (17 Aug 2021)

palinurus said:


> E-assist is really helping to make cargo bikes into practical vehicles for a wider range of users.


I have this as no car  etrike to save my knees 







Did shopping the other day by etrike and trailer carried 83LB worth
and still managed 14mph average with 28mph down hill


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## ebikeerwidnes (17 Aug 2021)

I have had an ebike for over 10 years - at that time there were almost unknown.
I got one in the first place because I used to live at the top of a big hill and had just been diagnosed with asthma - which explained a lot.
Basically it allowed me to cycle to and from the shops so, in good weather, most of my shopping could be done by bike

Some time later I moved house to somewhere flatter. I also got a job close to my new house. Using the ebike to get into work made it possible to do so without getting there sweaty - and there was no possibility of having a shower or changing at work so without the assistance I would have had to drive.

Since I retired I have greatly increased the amount that I ride for pleasure. Having the assist available has meant that I ride faster on the flat with less effort - hence I can go to interesting places that are further away with the same effort, or in less time. This means that far more places are in range of a hour's ride outwards.
This means that there is far more incentive to go out, and, in my case, far less worry that I might get stuck somewhere and my asthma makes it difficult to get back - I can always just increase the assist level and get home with little effort.
BTW - it also means that I can get home faster if it starts to rain - which is nice.

and, of course, it makes it possible to actually ride up even steep hills - which is far more pleasant and also increases the enjoyment.


As far as whether it still counts as exercise is concerned - there are a lot of studies that have been conducted - here are a few
https://electrek.co/2021/05/20/the-...s-provide-a-good-workout-and-heres-the-proof/

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fitness-and-training/electric-bike-fitness/

just type 'ebike exercise' into your normal search engine and there are loads

As far as climate change is concerned - I have connected a meter to my charger when the battery was pretty much empty (i.e. it had cut out and I had had to ride the last mile or so home with no power) and it cost 22p to fully charge it - I tend to do that about twice a week - sometimes 5 times in 2 weeks - so very little electric - and all my electric is carbon free anyway (or so my supplier claims -????)

hope this helps


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## TheDoctor (17 Aug 2021)

I used one to commute, so I could ride in civvies and not need a shower when I got there.
It's easily paid for itself in mileage allowance (when I was doing care-at-home) and savings in bus fares or running costs for a car.
It's not had a right lot of use in the last 18 months...
As far as exercise goes, I'd normally get a round trip and then some on a charge - about 20 miles. The day the chain broke, I got 7 miles on a charge. So I was doing about 65% of the work.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

cougie uk said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. You still get a workout even with electric.
> 
> If it gets more people out on bikes then that's a good thing.


 TOTALLY agree. 100%. 

What I'm less happy about is those of us who ride anyway (or should be riding for health reasons) taking the easy, less eco-friendly option.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I have had an ebike for over 10 years - at that time there were almost unknown.
> I got one in the first place because I used to live at the top of a big hill and had just been diagnosed with asthma - which explained a lot.
> Basically it allowed me to cycle to and from the shops so, in good weather, most of my shopping could be done by bike
> 
> ...



Really interesting thoughts, thank you.


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## Phil Fouracre (17 Aug 2021)

Oooo! I do love these posts! Sadly your first sentence says it all, you even emphasise with capitals :-) :-)


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## Phil Fouracre (17 Aug 2021)

Overlapped with your last post - you’re ‘less happy’, so what?


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> TOTALLY agree. 100%.
> 
> What I'm less happy about is those of us who ride anyway (or should be riding for health reasons) taking the easy, less eco-friendly option.


You don't have to get one though? Not sure it really matters what others choose to do (same as people getting up in arms about people spending £5k on a bike, electric or otherwise).

Clearly undeclared e-bikers nicking QOMs on Strava is bloody annoying


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## palinurus (17 Aug 2021)

I'm fit and (fairly) healthy but potentially I could imagine considering an e-bike to extend my feasible commute range- if I had 15+ miles to do for example.


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## The Crofted Crest (17 Aug 2021)

Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.


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## cougie uk (17 Aug 2021)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.


You've clearly not ridden one.


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## gbb (17 Aug 2021)

IMO, its several things together. As a 'normal' cyclist, i often had people say...ooooh, i couldnt possibly do that. They see 30 mile rides, let alone more, as an impossibility, how could they posdibly do that ?
Even if they try, its hard....freekin hard. I remember my first forays into road biking, 10 miles and i was red faced, out of breath, wobbly legs and cream crackered. My character is not to give up, im quite determined, i never carried surplus weight at that time, never had, was always quite active....but not everyone is like that and wont get past those first punishing attempts.

And then those 'fit' people you see out on ebikes....that was me, but i wasnt fit, OA has ravaged my joints, its impossible to ride unaided now.
And then those people who just 'want' one...why not ?
And then there are those who are not lucky enough to be fit and healthy through life. We visited friends last week, they live on a sheltered complex. Theyre a little older than us...but physically, theyre fooked. Even with my OA, i realsied how lucky i am. That was a sobering moment when i realised some people are absolutely cream crackered by the time theyre 65.


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## cougie uk (17 Aug 2021)

I met a gang of ebikers at a country cafe in the summer. They were all in their 80s and the bikes let them increase their distance cycled. Good for them I say. 

Not much point in discussing the derestricted ebikes. Very much a minority and clearly shouldn't be on the roads. I think they get crushed when caught.


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## Pale Rider (17 Aug 2021)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.



Rather crap e-mopeds by the look of it:



vickster said:


> I was surprised how much effort was needed even on full assist and in a low gear to get up said hill


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## palinurus (17 Aug 2021)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.



This isn't the case. I do recommend trying one out if you have the opportunity.


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## Chislenko (17 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My sister has an e bike to keep up with her husband. Means they get out together rather ride separately.



I think this sentence encapsulates it for me. I go for long rides a few times a week leaving Mrs. C at home. I tend to cut my rides shorter than I would like so as not to be gone too long.

Mrs. C no longer has the body strength for riding her normal bike. I have offered to get her an e-bike so she can come out with me but so far she has said "not at the moment"

Similarly it could for us getting on a bit "iron out" power / speed differentials with younger riders.

The guys I used to ride with (25 years my junior) have stopped asking me to come now as they know I would "hold them back"

So I can see some advantages. I will plod on manually for now but in a few years time I envisage I will be getting one.


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## ianrauk (17 Aug 2021)

It really doesn't bother me this leccy bike thing. I come across quite a few every day on my SE London cycle commute. A few commuters but mainly food delivery riders. Most of which I would say are illegally unrestricted. But hey, it's one less car on the road and in my way.
Seriously thinking of getting a leccy road bike for my partner. Since she suffers from long covid she has found cycling very hard work and a chore, so if I can make it easier and enjoyable for her, then a leccy bike is the way to go.


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## ianrauk (17 Aug 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Very much a minority and clearly shouldn't be on the roads..


In London that's clearly not the case. However they are the food delivery riders rather than the humble leisure cyclist.


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2021)

I’ve had one for a month. I never thought I would need one this young - I’m only 58 - but a slipped disc event earlier this year prompted me. It’s a lightweight, low assist one that manages four commutes (88 miles in total) on a charge and is helping me back to my previous fitness levels. I’m now cycle commuting every day that a bike is an option. My ride in to work typically uses less than 20 Wh, so I still get a sweat on, but I don’t dread the journey home after a long tiring day.

I have two colleagues who also have newish e-bikes. Neither would think of themselves as cyclists. They would be capable of riding unaided if they wanted to - but they didn’t. In both cases they have removed car journeys, one all the way to work, the other to a train station.

I know your reservations are about fit people using electric assistance when they don’t actually need it, but not everyone wants their transport choice to be mostly about the exercise benefits. Sometimes utility is what matters.


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Rather crap e-mopeds by the look of it:


This was one of them
https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/ultimate-c8plus-hmb#pim_itemgenderframe[]=low-step&pim_itemcolorcodeonergb[]=237,9,9

The other was a rather crap conversion type thing.
I didn’t get a chance to try the Specialized Varo SL or Creo on the hill


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Overlapped with your last post - you’re ‘less happy’, so what?



You think I am being an elitist snob, I am anti ebike and my thoughts don't matter at all? Maybe you're right. I think you're wrong but we don't know each other. 

You're right that my thoughts don't count for much but it's a well-established way of opening a respectful dialogue.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Seriously thinking of getting a leccy road buke for my partner. Since she suffers from long covid she has found cycling very hard work and a chore, so if I can make it easier and enjoyable for her, then a leccy bike is the way to go.



Totally. I'm thinking about my parents who, whilst still fit and active, aren't as fit and active as they were and I think eBikes would open up a whole new world to them.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> You don't have to get one though? Not sure it really matters what others choose to do (same as people getting up in arms about people spending £5k on a bike, electric or otherwise).



I'm not up in arms and you're right, it doesn't matter much if others choose to get one...I just think it's a shame that, for some people, the benefits of the bicycle is being diminished. I fully support those who choose to go electric if it adds to their quality of life, like many of the posters on this thread.


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## Pale Rider (17 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> This was one of them
> https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/ultimate-c8plus-hmb#pim_itemgenderframe[]=low-step&pim_itemcolorcodeonergb[]=237,9,9
> 
> The other was a rather crap conversion type thing.
> I didn’t get a chance to try the Specialized Varo SL or Creo on the hill



All the legal ebikes are much of a muchness when it comes to grunt.

What your experience shows is legal ebikes are nothing like e-mopeds, but as you discovered, need a fair bit of effort on steep hills.

Less effort than a push bike, obviously, but the sneering 'you're riding a moped' is just cobblers.


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## KnittyNorah (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why?



Have you ever thought someone who _appears to be _a fit strong rider might have an 'invisible' issue which is making their cycling less pleasurable - and which they don't particularly want to talk about to anyone other than their medics? A knee twinge and the medical advice is to reduce your cycling? A breathing issue and the advice is to reduce the exertion until you are not short of breath or stabilised on the prescribed treatment? Or any one of a plethora of issues which can strike us whatever our age or apparent degree of fitness? And which may be intermittent, too, so some days they're fine on the normal bike - other days, not so much.

Heaven forbid, given the past18 months on this planet, maybe they have long covid (diagnosed or not) and however fit and healthy they _look_, they really really need that help?

Nowadays they don't need to explain their medical conditions or make false claims that they've 'gone off' cycling and prefer cross-stitch or cactus growing - they can just get electric-assist and owe no-one any explanation at all!


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> TOTALLY agree. 100%.
> 
> *What I'm less happy about is those of us who ride anyway (or should be riding for health reasons) taking the easy, less eco-friendly option.*


why are you less happy?? confused as to why, just cause someone exercise's their right to ride something different to you and its more eco-friendly than taking the car, so really more eco-friendly


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

i always find that the ones that want to moan about de-restricted ebikes, are also the ones with large engined BMW's, mercedes, porsche etc etc etc they are happy that they can break speed limits, but are not happy that ebike owners can.........


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

But pretty much any modern car can break any speed limit in existence in this country and they aren’t restricted to 15.5mph by law like ebikes.

Want to ride on two wheels faster than 15.5mph, either pedal faster on the flat or uphill, only go down hills or get a license, a helmet and a motorbike


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> But pretty much any modern car can break any speed limit in existence in this country and they aren’t restricted to 15.5mph by law like ebikes.
> 
> *Want to ride on two wheels faster than 15.5mph, either pedal faster on the flat or uphill, only go down hills or get a license, a helmet and a motorbike*


want to driver faster than the speed limit in your car, go to a track day or move to germany and drive on the auto bans..........bus's and lorries are limited to 56mph, maybe we should do the same to cars, less fuel used, more eco friendly and will help climate change too


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

How will that work in a 20/30/40/50 limit? Because buses, lorries and vans never ever speed in those 

You presumably only enjoy your own derestricted ebike on the track too? And never exceed a 20 or 30 speed limit. That certainly isn’t the case around here


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> How will that work in a 20/30/40/50 limit?
> 
> You presumably only enjoy your own derestricted ebike on the track too? And never exceed a 20 or 30 speed limit. That certainly isn’t the case around here


i don't have a de-restricted ebike, both mine are fully legal.....but i can see why some have them and don't have an issue with it, its not my issue if they gat caught, same as its not my issue if drivers get caught speeding

but if your going to make comments about de-restricted ebikes, then be happy to get the same comments about cars


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Have you ever thought someone who _appears to be _a fit strong rider might have an 'invisible' issue which is making their cycling less pleasurable - and which they don't particularly want to talk about to anyone other than their medics? A knee twinge and the medical advice is to reduce your cycling? A breathing issue and the advice is to reduce the exertion until you are not short of breath or stabilised on the prescribed treatment? Or any one of a plethora of issues which can strike us whatever our age or apparent degree of fitness? And which may be intermittent, too, so some days they're fine on the normal bike - other days, not so much.
> 
> Heaven forbid, given the past18 months on this planet, maybe they have long covid (diagnosed or not) and however fit and healthy they _look_, they really really need that help?
> 
> Nowadays they don't need to explain their medical conditions or make false claims that they've 'gone off' cycling and prefer cross-stitch or cactus growing - they can just get electric-assist and owe no-one any explanation at all!


You’re right and I hope I’ve made it clear several times that I’m not anti eBike as I see the benefits!


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> You’re right and I hope I’ve made it clear several times that I’m not anti eBike as I see the benefits!


not anti-ebike, just not happy with people riding them.......


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## KnittyNorah (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> You’re right and I hope I’ve made it clear several times that I’m not anti eBike as I see the benefits!



But you are effectively condemning those who merely _appear _to be fit and strong for riding one. 
Or should all e-bike riders carry placards explaining their use of it, so that you can nod approvingly from your position of virtue?
I'm certain that's not what you intend, but it is rather how you are coming across ...


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## TwoStews (17 Aug 2021)

Thought I would contribute here as I bought my very first e-bike in May (a Cannondale Synapse Neo 1). I am a fit & healthy, 40-year-old, life-long cyclist.

I commute to work by bike. I carry luggage with me including laptop, clothes and food. I own a car, but try not to use it unless absolutely necessary. My most direct commute to and from work involves 18 miles and 1500 ft of ascent in total. However, I would usually commute a longer way around, which has less climbing and less traffic (21 miles and 1300ft total). This longer route would take me a total of around 1hr 45 mins depending on time of year, traffic, weather etc.

Once I started going back into work full-time around March/April, my wife soon started to resent my commuting by bike as it meant I was out of the house for much longer than if I had just driven to and from work. She was at home on mat leave looking after our two young kids (2.5 and 6 months then) and she would have liked me to be at home as much as possible. Perfectly reasonable request, breakfast and teatime can be very fractious, and you need all hands on deck!

So I bought an e-bike. I now commute the most direct route which I can do in a total of about 55 minutes. It’s just as quick as driving, so I am not stealing time from my wife and kids to indulge my love of cycling, I can still cover 100 miles a week on two wheels and there is no car of mine adding to the rush hour and polluting the planet. 

Could I just MTFU and do the same on a non-electric bike? Yeah probably, but not every day, in all weather, carrying a well-laden pannier.

Personally the e-bike has been a revelation and a true win-win-win for me, my family and the planet. Once my circumstances change and I can commute at my leisure and under my own power again, I will almost certainly sell the e-bike, but until then it’s a perfect fit for my life and I am glad I have it.

Happy riding everyone!


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

[QUOTE="KnittyNorah, post: 6502991, 
Or should all e-bike riders carry placards explaining their use of it, so that you can nod approvingly from your position of virtue?
I'm certain that's not what you intend, but it is rather how you are coming across ...
[/QUOTE]
I’m so sorry I come across that way! That wasn’t my intention at all.


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## Peugeotrider (17 Aug 2021)

Has anyone invented the electric unicycle yet?
Possible gap in the market there 🤣


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## All uphill (17 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Have you ever thought someone who _appears to be _a fit strong rider might have an 'invisible' issue which is making their cycling less pleasurable - and which they don't particularly want to talk about to anyone other than their medics? A knee twinge and the medical advice is to reduce your cycling? A breathing issue and the advice is to reduce the exertion until you are not short of breath or stabilised on the prescribed treatment? Or any one of a plethora of issues which can strike us whatever our age or apparent degree of fitness? And which may be intermittent, too, so some days they're fine on the normal bike - other days, not so much.
> 
> Heaven forbid, given the past18 months on this planet, maybe they have long covid (diagnosed or not) and however fit and healthy they _look_, they really really need that help?
> 
> Nowadays they don't need to explain their medical conditions or make false claims that they've 'gone off' cycling and prefer cross-stitch or cactus growing - they can just get electric-assist and owe no-one any explanation at all!


You have said it so well!

If you saw my son in his twenties riding his ebike you would never guess he has had a terrible time with long covid, and that the bike is brilliant for his mental recovery.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

@Cathryn I’m so sorry I come across that way! That wasn’t my intention at all.
[/QUOTE]
so why did you complain about ebike riders then??


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> @Cathryn I’m so sorry I come across that way! That wasn’t my intention at all.


so why did you complain about ebike riders then??
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t complain, quite the opposite! I said I saw they had benefits but I thought they limited health benefits for otherwise healthy cyclists. 
I hoped it would be an interesting debate about their benefits and I’m grateful for the contributions of many about how eBikes have helped them.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> I didn’t complain, quite the opposite! I said I saw they had benefits but I thought they limited health benefits for otherwise healthy cyclists.
> I hoped it would be an interesting debate about their benefits and I’m grateful for the contributions of many about how eBikes have helped them.



this is your first post - a complaint about cycling going electric and then another complaint about perfectly fit riders using them

*"I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why?"*

to me that screams anti-ebike


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> this is your first post - a complaint about cycling going electric and then another complaint about perfectly fit riders using them
> 
> *"I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why?"*
> 
> to me that screams anti-ebike


 I don’t see that as a complaint and I’m hardly screaming! I’m sharing my perspective and asking for other perspectives. Which is the point of discussion isn’t it?


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## palinurus (17 Aug 2021)

Peugeotrider said:


> Has anyone invented the electric unicycle yet?
> Possible gap in the market there 🤣



Self-balancing electric unicycles have been around for a while.

I don't think anyone has done a pedelec version yet.


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2021)

Despite what I read as a carefully worded first post, this all went downhill too quickly, didn't it?


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Despite what I read as a carefully worded first post, this all went downhill too quickly, didn't it?


Thanks! Yes, I’m a bit shocked! I’ll have to be more careful with my wording in the future!


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## Smokin Joe (17 Aug 2021)

Should I feel embarrassed when I go out on my motorbike? It doesn't have any pedals at all.


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## Pale Rider (17 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Despite what I read as a carefully worded first post, this all went downhill too quickly, didn't it?



Yeah, a few members disagreed with the OP.

Ruddy liberty, ban 'em I say.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Despite what I read as a carefully worded first post, this all went downhill too quickly, didn't it?


probably cause the post to some was anti-ebike.....if you have to use capitals to get your point accross, as the OP did then im afraid your already onto a loser


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> probably cause the post to some was anti-ebike.....if you have to use capitals to get your point accross, as the OP did then im afraid your already onto a loser


I WON’T DO IT AGAIN.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> I don’t see that as a complaint and I’m hardly screaming! I’m sharing my perspective and asking for other perspectives. Which is the point of discussion isn’t it?


if i was to make a post stating " im not happy with xxx companies service" am i not complaining???

so to me your line of " i'm not thrilled with cycling going XX" is a complaint about the cycling industry is it not??


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> Should I feel embarrassed when I go out on my motorbike? It doesn't have any pedals at all.


As long as you never exceed the speed limit whatever it might be... and don't stop in the ruddy ASL at lights as the bike painted on the road clearly has pedals!!!


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Yeah, a few members disagreed with the OP.
> 
> Ruddy liberty, ban 'em I say.


Not at all! Those posts that disagreed with me I read, like and responded politely to some. I was hoping for a discussion.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> if i was to make a post stating " im not happy with xxx companies service" am i not complaining???





jowwy said:


> if i was to make a post stating " im not happy with xxx companies service" am i not complaining???
> 
> so to me your line of " i'm not thrilled with cycling going XX" is a complaint about the cycling industry is it not??



No, it’s an observation and my perspective.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> No, it’s an observation and my perspective.


as a complaints analyst, one of the things i look for is wording......to me, your making a complaint


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> as a complaints analyst, one of the things i look for is wording......to me, your making a complaint


I shall phrase things more carefully next time.


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## KnittyNorah (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> I don’t see that as a complaint and I’m hardly screaming! I’m sharing my perspective and asking for other perspectives. Which is the point of discussion isn’t it?



You did come across initially as very judgemental of people who use e-bikes - especially those who appear , to your eyes, anyway, to be 'fit and strong' - and seemed to be demanding that people have a reason which is acceptable to you, for riding them. Tone is almost impossible to put across on t'interwebz, isn't it?

Let me ask you, would you ever consider asking the same blunt question of people who use wheelchairs? Many wheelchair users 'appear' - on brief or initial acquaintance at least! - to be 'fit and strong'. Many of them are indeed 'fit and strong' as will soon be evinced by the paralympics. Does that mean you think they don't need, or shouldn't use, a wheelchair, or that their use of a wheelchair somehow disappoints you and diminishes them? 

Of course you wouldn't, and you don't - yet the impression you put across in your initial post is that you are somehow disappointed that people who you don't think should 'need' to use an e-bike, are doing so nonetheless.

Maybe you could have put it in a less-confrontational way - 
'I'm puzzled about e-bikes and their growing popularity. Would those of you who use them, be willing to explain? I'm especially interested to know why a person who considers themself to be fit and strong would ride one. It's not something I've ever considered'. 
Or something like that?


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> Thanks! Yes, I’m a bit shocked! I’ll have to be more careful with my wording in the future!


Some people could start an argument in solitary confinement…


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Yeah, a few members disagreed with the OP.
> 
> Ruddy liberty, ban 'em I say.


And others gave the appearance of it being an affront to their presumed masculinity. Of course, it may have just been their wording that left that impression.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> And others gave the appearance of it being an affront to their presumed masculinity. Of course, it may have just been their wording that left that impression.


what has masculinity got to do with riding an ebike???


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## ebikeerwidnes (17 Aug 2021)

2 things
Firstly I assume we are basically talking about UK/EU legal ebikes - i.e. (just be be clear) max power 250W, *throttle* and motor cut off at 15.5 mph
Apart from the pre 2016 ones that are max 200W and can have a throttle
Totally different to a few I have seen with a hub motor the size of a dinner plate

Other point - as far as health is concerned I am - in my opinion - better off on a 2 hour ebike ride than a 30 minute ride on a 'proper' bike - and I am far more likely to do it
I have also found that I started riding my new ebike (the old one was pre 2016 and had to assist modes - on and off! - I started in Sports mode - I soon knocked it down to Tour mode - this year I have made my normal mode Eco - and often knock it down to Off, especially if there are other riders on a narrow path so passing would be inconvenient or rude

Also - a little story - but one where something similar has happened a few times
Last summer I was riding along a dual carrigeway heading toward Warrington - I was on a good cycle path next to it and there was a long gap between intersecting roads - it was basically flat with no wind.
Eventually I reached the next main road and had to stop to wait for the crossing to go green.
A much younger bloke pulled up next to me on a mountain style bike puffing and blowing. He looked at my bike and said "Oh good - I didn't know it was an ebike - I have been killing myself trying to keep up with you and feeling bad that you could stay ahead!!!
It felt wrong to tell him that I was maintaining about 18mph along the whole stretch - i.e. the motor had cut out a few yards after the previous junction when I got to the cutoff speed and the rest was him trying to keep up with an old fat bloke on a VERY heavy bike!!!!


EDIT - corrected due to typing error saying no throttle on pre 2016 when I know damn well they can have one!!!!


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## numbnuts (17 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> 2 things
> Firstly I assume we are basically talking about UK/EU legal ebikes - i.e. (just be be clear) max power 250W,* no throttle* and motor cut off at 15.5 mph


Pre 2016 can have a throttle - under grand dads rules Fact !!


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## PaulSB (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> Before I start, I am ABSOLUTELY not being elitist or a cycling snob. I have NOTHING against eBikes - my running buddy got one and it has transformed her into a cyclist and has brought her so much pleasure. I love that I get to cycle with her. I'm trying to persuade my parents to get eBikes and I'm planning to get one myself when I'm older and need that extra support.
> 
> However...
> 
> I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are a) obesity and b) climate. eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?


I don't understand your problem. Yes using a non-ebike improves your a) and b) but the other side of the argument is I now see people of all shapes, sizes and ages in parts of rural Lancashire where I've never seen them before. Great. A few weeks ago we saw two teenage girls on e-MTBs tackling one of our finest climbs, Waddington Fell. Without an e-bike there is no way they would have been there. Sometime last year we were asked for directions by a young man, 6'+, broad shouldered and apparently very fit. He wanted directions to the top of a local hill. He was on an e-bike. We did say to each other "Really?" but he was out, having fun and getting some fresh air and exercise.

The cycling world is far from going all electric. At a guess my club members own 800-1000 bikes between them. The guy who owned the only e-bike has sold it, he bought during recovery from heart surgery.

You love cycling with your friend, you're trying to persuade your parents to buy eBikes and plan to get one yourself in the future yet you don't understand why they have become so popular? Seems odd to me.


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## jowwy (17 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> 2 things
> Firstly I assume we are basically talking about UK/EU legal ebikes - i.e. (just be be clear) max power 250W, no throttle and motor cut off at 15.5 mph
> Apart from the pre 2016 ones that are max 200W and can have a throttle
> Totally different to a few I have seen with a hub motor the size of a dinner plate
> ...


yup oddly enough most people think that ebikes stop at 15.5mph and arn't aware that you can pedal them past the limit........


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## ebikeerwidnes (17 Aug 2021)

numbnuts said:


> Pre 2016 can have a throttle - under grand dads rules Fact !!


Correct - mistype on my part!!!!!
I knew that as my old one had a throttle - sorry!!!! - I'll correct the original now
thanks for pointing it out


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> what has masculinity got to do with riding an ebike???


In reality? Nothing at all.


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## Cathryn (17 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Maybe you could have put it in a less-confrontational way -
> 'I'm puzzled about e-bikes and their growing popularity. Would those of you who use them, be willing to explain? I'm especially interested to know why a person who considers themself to be fit and strong would ride one. It's not something I've ever considered'.
> Or something like that?


Probably a better way of phrasing it. Thanks.


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## fossyant (17 Aug 2021)

Lots of eMTB's about at trail centres. 'Most' riders are fairly fit, but use it to kill the climbs in much less time, so get in more circuits at a trail centre, or cover further distances in a set time. I'd say an eMTB can climb almost twice as fast on a tricky climb, but the rider still has to work hard.

I ride with a group occasionally and one older chap switched betwen his normal hardtail or eMTB depending upon how hard the ride is going to be. I can easily keep up with him on his eMTB, but I suspect he'd be lagging behind the group if it was a hard ride and he was on his 'normal' bike.

The only ones that annoy me are the electric MX type bikes at trail centres, and the idiots that don't let you know they want to pass, but that's down to the ignorant rider.


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## Dogtrousers (17 Aug 2021)

I don't really have much of an opinion on them either way.

My only really significant experience of ebikes was on a Friday Night Ride from Bristol to S Wales a couple of years back. About 4am and I wasn't feeling great, the roads were flat and it was a bit breezy. I was mighty happy to join the queue drafting behind a big chap on a big ebike. So what opinion I do have is positive I guess.


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## Alba Zeus (17 Aug 2021)

e-bike owner here.

I recently bought the Orbea Gain. I'm 41, relatively fit (some lower back & hip issues) but detest cycling up hills. To the point where I would all out avoid going on any hilly routes which in Scotland is a shame (and difficult) because there are so many hills/beautiful cycles that take in said hills.

I had some spare cash & have never owned a bicycle from new (always 2nd hand) so thought I would give it a try and to be honest I love it. I don't cycle to keep fit, I cycle because I enjoy being outdoors on a bike. I have actually planned then rode some lovely routes since getting my Orbea that I wouldn't have went anywhere near on my other road bikes.

It is still a decent workout (if thats your thing) on the Orbea but on the other hand I can spin up hills with relative ease which makes me want to be out longer.


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## numbnuts (17 Aug 2021)

As with all ebikes they have an off button..........


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## PK99 (17 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> *i always find* that the ones that want to moan about de-restricted ebikes, are also the ones with large engined BMW's, mercedes, porsche etc etc etc they are happy that they can break speed limits, but are not happy that ebike owners can.........



You destroy your own arguments by overstating!

I ride an e-bike.
I moan about de-restricted e-bikes.
I drive a Honda Jazz


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## CXRAndy (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> ? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are a) obesity and b) climate. eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?


Riding a bike whether electric or not helps with 'obesity' . Riding in zone 2 regularly is extremely beneficial to one's health for weight management and cardiovascular improvement.

An ebike is by a country mile far better environmentally than any vehicle, including EV cars.


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## CXRAndy (17 Aug 2021)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.



Ive not ridden much at all this year. Ive ridden over 200 miles on an ebike. This has included 4 rides over 1.5hours in duration, with non stop high cadence pedalling. Almost every day I ride, do some shopping or 'ocal errands on my ebike. My thighs are returning to their former shape and my cardio fitness is returning.


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## IanSmithCSE (17 Aug 2021)

Good evening,



vickster said:


> .......I didn't ride it on the track, but Specialized were there with a carbon Di2 Creo gravel bike...that was rather nice but a mere 7k ... but it has opened my eyes to Di2 .......



Welcome to the world that shouldn't make any sense at all, ........ but is wonderful.

I did get shot down in early 2019 for suggesting Sora Di2. https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/f...ized-allez-sora-di2-or-mechanical-105.247736/

Bye

Ian


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## vickster (17 Aug 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good evening,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I won't actually get it as I don't like Shimano shifters 
I may have to look at eTap though in future


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## steveindenmark (17 Aug 2021)

When I had my electric bike , I was riding about 150km a week on it and about 250km a week on my road bike. All you need to do to get a work out on an electric bike is put the power on low or turn it off.


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## stoatsngroats (17 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My sister has an e bike to keep up with her husband. Means they get out together rather ride separately. Depending where someone lives it may mean they can put a decent loop together rather a shorter less satisfying one. Meaning they get out more.


Exactly our situation, although pre Mrs SnG’s ebike, we did ride distances up to 35 miles or so. The issue was, this was making her really tired, and she enjoyed it much less than I.

since having the eBike, we cycled from Sussex to Paris, and have done numerous 35+ miles across the Southdowns, just because she can. It provides a much better workout for me, as she often doesn’t wait long at the top of a hill after I arrive there.

And, for everyone who will make a journey on an ebike rather than a car is very good news, unless, of course they would have cycled on a non-ebike (known as a ‘bike’) otherwise…..


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## Laura63 (17 Aug 2021)

cougie uk said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. You still get a workout even with electric.
> 
> If it gets more people out on bikes then that's a good thing.


To be honest I’d rather see the end of those e scooters bombing along the pavements. They’re a menace! 😊


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## CXRAndy (17 Aug 2021)

The last few rides ive done have been in very windy conditions. In the past I would not bother going out. But with an ebike it all but cancels the effect weather has on a bike ride. Thats why commuters like them, arrive at work non sweaty or far less fatigued if fighting a headwind


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## Arrowfoot (17 Aug 2021)

@Cathryn, I know where you are coming but lot of us speed read and latch on to some words. I guess we all want to share our views.Its a tough crowd at the best of times. Hang in there.


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## dodgy (17 Aug 2021)

Something that you hardly ever see come up on this forum, especially by people who have never experienced an ebike, is how the power is delivered. 
Some ebikes let you have all or at least some of the power from the motor at the very tiny/slightest movement of the crank, you just need to keep the crank turning so the sensor can pass the test to the question "is the rider pedalling". Then there are the type that have torque sensors and only let you have a certain amount of power depending on how much the rider is putting in. It's this last type that are only the ones realistically can claim to help a rider get fitter imo.
You just need to be honest about what type you have. Just the act of turning the pedals and moving at 15mph doesn't mean you're getting a work out.
Gocycle have a fantastic implementation of the torque sensor, you can set it an almost infinite amount of ways as it has a power meter built in and an accompanying app. For instance you can ask that no assistance at all is provided until you put in (say) 300 watts. I'm not sure many if any other bikes are doing that.


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## Mike_P (17 Aug 2021)

My, torque assist, hybrid ebike spends its time on vertically U shaped routes shopping and, should the office ever reopen, commuting with a heavy rucksack with the alternative being the car, so car mileage falls and push bike cycling is unaffected. The ebike has very occasionally ventured away from its constant valley descending and climbing when I have had, for example, a strained achilles tendon enabling an leisure ride to be got in when otherwise none would have occurred.

On my road bike I overtook an elderly couple in Wetherby last Sunday, both on ebikes and no doubt if they had not got them there would be another car on the road.


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## PK99 (17 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Some ebikes let you have all or at least some of the power from the motor at the very tiny/slightest movement of the crank, you just need to keep the crank turning so the sensor can pass the test to the question "is the rider pedalling". Then there are the type that have torque sensors and only let you have a certain amount of power depending on how much the rider is putting in. It's this last type that are only the ones realistically can claim to help a rider get fitter imo.



A point I regularly make out in the real world.

My Whyte Winchelsea is very much in the second category. Some friends who have never cycled and use their bikes "to get out in the open air" rather than to "get fitter" have the first type. I've ridden their bikes and getting up hills is effortless.


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## dodgy (17 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> A point I regularly make out in the real world.
> 
> My Whyte Winchelsea is very much in the second category. Some friends who have never cycled and use their bikes "to get out in the open air" rather than to "get fitter" have the first type. I've ridden their bikes and getting up hills is effortless.



I wonder if they realise that really, they're not getting much exercise at all.


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## PK99 (17 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> I wonder if they realise that really, they're not getting much exercise at all.



Yes they do - he has two new hips and one new knee and she is an exercisephobe. Their e-bikes get them out where even walking would be beyond them.


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## dodgy (17 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> Yes they do - he has two new hips and one new knee and she is an exercisephobe. Their e-bikes get them out where even walking would be beyond them.


Perfect use case.


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## fossyant (17 Aug 2021)

Who would have thought a thread about ebikes would cause such trouble. 

Some electrically charged tempers.


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## keithmac (17 Aug 2021)

I'm physically fit, not overweight young-ish  and ride one daily to work.

All three of mine you have to put effort in, I can still become a sweaty mess riding them.

Takes the sting out of commuting to work for me (hills and wind mainly), I don't really care if other cyclists look down on me, each to their own..


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## boydj (17 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> Before I start, I am ABSOLUTELY not being elitist or a cycling snob. I have NOTHING against eBikes - my running buddy got one and it has transformed her into a cyclist and has brought her so much pleasure. I love that I get to cycle with her. I'm trying to persuade my parents to get eBikes and I'm planning to get one myself when I'm older and need that extra support.
> 
> However...
> 
> I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are a) obesity and b) climate. eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?



I bought my e-bike so that I could continue to get out on club runs. Old age and health problems were making club runs problematic and ruining enjoyment. Nobody likes to think they are holding up a group or, worse, getting dropped miles from home. 

Out on a solo 20-miler today, on a normal bike, on a local cycle track I must have passed easily more than 10 people on electric bikes where even a year ago that would not have happened and I would have passed far fewer people. Most of these people were as old or older than me, and I've been drawing a pension for quite a few years. Electric bikes seem to have introduced a whole new set of people to cycling for health / fitness / pleasure, and it is very welcome. I should add that electric bikes alone are not responsible for what I've seen, though I doubt it would have happened without them. We're lucky in this area to have a cycle track created on an old railway line which can provide a round trip of 30 miles with only a couple of very short on-road sections and no hills.


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## boydj (17 Aug 2021)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Don't think of them as bikes. They are e-mopeds.



That's rubbish. You don't go anywhere unless you pedal, so you are still putting a fair amount of work - as long as you are legal. You've obviously never tried one.


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## dodgy (17 Aug 2021)

boydj said:


> That's rubbish. You don't go anywhere unless you pedal, *so you are still putting a fair amount of work* - as long as you are legal. You've obviously never tried one.


As per my post above. Depends if the bike has a torque sensor or not.


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## gbb (18 Aug 2021)

As this discussion seems to have speared off into a de restricted discussion, I'm dead against de-restriction.
Where I live is largely pedestrian, lots of arterial pathways, one of them passes within 3ft of my front door, through blocks of houses, corners, straight onto roads etc etc.

I've already become hyper aware of how many e scooters, quite clearly not legal because of their speed, are using these paths, hyper aware because my grandkids kids, being what they are, blunder round corners to get to the house....god forbid they meet something travelling that fast, scooter or ebike, it'll likely maim or kill them. And they do use these paths, you dont really hear them coming.
The only good thing is its necessary to continually instill into the kids....slow down when you get to that corner, they will hopefully become very defensive, they need to be with these things around.


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## numbnuts (18 Aug 2021)

Once again if your not in the "click" your wrong............


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## ebikeerwidnes (18 Aug 2021)

gbb said:


> As this discussion seems to have speared off into a de restricted discussion, I'm dead against de-restriction.
> Where I live is largely pedestrian, lots of arterial pathways, one of them passes within 3ft of my front door, through blocks of houses, corners, straight onto roads etc etc.
> 
> I've already become hyper aware of how many e scooters, quite clearly not legal because of their speed, are using these paths, hyper aware because my grandkids kids, being what they are, blunder round corners to get to the house....god forbid they meet something travelling that fast, scooter or ebike, it'll likely maim or kill them. And they do use these paths, you dont really hear them coming.
> The only good thing is its necessary to continually instill into the kids....slow down when you get to that corner, they will hopefully become very defensive, they need to be with these things around.



I agree - but wouldn't a normal bike be just as quiet and can go just as fast?
I was out on my ebike a couple of days ago and happily doing 10-13 mph and a bloke on a normal mountain bike was in front and poulled away from me.
The point is people riding carefully - which is down to other things than the equipment - I have certainly come across mountain bikes coming towards me on paths where the ride had no intention of diverting from his direct line.
I blame the parents
and Brexit


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## KnittyNorah (18 Aug 2021)

gbb said:


> e scooters, quite clearly not legal because of their speed,



Their speed is totally irrelevant. 
They are _not _legal, full stop and end of, UNLESS they are hire scooters being ridden within a hire scheme trial area according to the scheme's rules.


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## Rickshaw Phil (18 Aug 2021)

*Mod note:*

There seem to have been some frayed tempers on this thread, not for the first time in a discussion relating to e-bikes.

I've cleaned up the bits that were getting too personal. If it kicks off again I'm quite happy to remove those involved from the thread.

Back on topic from here please.

Thanks.


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## FrankCrank (18 Aug 2021)

Ebikes eh, not ready for one myself yet. Like to keep an eye on all the technology about them, the different systems and all their pros/cons.

As for steep hills, if I cycle half way up, and walk the rest, it's no big deal - nice break from the saddle


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## Pale Rider (18 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> As per my post above. Depends if the bike has a torque sensor or not.



There are still plenty of ebikes which only have cadence sensors.

They are still 'no pedal, no go', and those with legal motors still require plenty of effort on hills.

A torque sensor is an added refinement to the way in which the motor is controlled.

I much prefer bikes with torque sensors, but there will be plenty of users who really couldn't give a stuff provided the damn thing helps them up hills.


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## johnblack (18 Aug 2021)

I shall have one as a pub bike when the body is less willing, I might even get it chipped so I can get there even quicker, probably a fat bike so I can go the field way.


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## GuyBoden (18 Aug 2021)

Ee Bike Gum, what'ever next.

The fact that Robert Mugabe's surname, written backwards, spells out Ebagum (Ee Bah Gum), is pure coincidence. Any rumours that Mugabe was a secret Ee-Bike-Gum practitioner are false.


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## Tenkaykev (18 Aug 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> Ee Bike Gum, what'ever next.
> 
> The fact that Robert Mugabe's surname, written backwards, spells out Ebagum (Ee Bah Gum), is pure coincidence. Any rumours that Mugabe was a secret Ee-Bike-Gum practitioner are false.


And his forename spells “ Trebor” of mint imperial fame! Coincidence? I think not…


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## ebikeerwidnes (18 Aug 2021)

My old (very old) ebike had a pretty basic sensor - it was called a torque sensor - but I could basically just spin the pedals slowly with little effort and the motor would take you up to 15 mph - on the flat with no headwind anyway
I now have 2 newer ebikes - the Bosch drive system seems to use a proper torque system - so you have to properly pedal.
The Carrera folder has a cadence sensor (I think) but it is more clever so, even in high assist, you can;t just slowly spin the pedals and expect the motor to kick in at full power.


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## Tenkaykev (18 Aug 2021)

My weekly wanderings regularly take me up a local trailway which is part of Route 25 ( disused railway line ) I've noticed a lot more cyclists, and the ratio of Electric bikes is certainly increasing. Yesterday I passed a group of about 10 more elderly cyclists, all on electric bicycles. I'm pro bicycle/ monocycle / Tricycle , be it electric assist or manual. It's getting people out and about, meeting others and socialising, that's a positive in my view.


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## GuyBoden (18 Aug 2021)

On a serious safety matter, high powered batteries can and do explode, so safety is critical, I know little about e-bikes, but I'd guess that multiple fuses are incorporated into the design thus stopping the shorting of each individual battery cell. 

48volt is unlikely to kill you, but I'd be very careful washing an e-bike with a hose pipe or jet wash.


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## jowwy (18 Aug 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> On a serious safety matter, high powered batteries can and do explode, so safety is critical, I know little about e-bikes, but I'd guess that multiple fuses are incorporated into the design thus stopping the shorting of each individual battery cell.
> 
> 48volt is unlikely to kill you, but I'd be very careful washing an e-bike with a hose pipe or jet wash.


just remove the battery before washing....


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## Mike_P (18 Aug 2021)

There are specific bike cleaning sprays for use around ebike electrics, suppose the same would apply to Di2 etc gear systems.


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## Alba Zeus (18 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> just remove the battery before washing....



My Orbea's battery is in the down tube so not an option. I just use a waterless washing system and to date had no issues.


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## jowwy (18 Aug 2021)

Alba Zeus said:


> My Orbea's battery is in the down tube so not an option. I just use a waterless washing system and to date had no issues.


yeh some are integrated....lucky for me both mine are removable, so not an issue for cleaning. Also means i can remove them for storage and security when not in use


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## mustang1 (18 Aug 2021)

I would go electric for a few reasons but some that come immediately to mind are:
1. those days when I kind of want to ride, but kind of can't be bothered. If I had an e-bike, I might be more likely to ride.
2. those days when I don't want to get sweaty (commuting).


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## Smokin Joe (18 Aug 2021)

I'd buy one just to upset people who get upset by them.


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## KnittyNorah (18 Aug 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd buy one just to upset people who get upset by them.



I think I've mildly upset a couple of passing cyclists when they've seen my age and size, and asked in an almost-rhetorical tone 'Electric?' and I've said 'no ...'. They definitely had a disappointed look on their face at my response - I think they wanted to pat themselves on the back for overtaking 'someone on an _electric _bike'; there's not much to congratulate oneself about, when passing a minute old lady on an exclusively-_pedal_ bike!


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Aug 2021)

Alba Zeus said:


> My Orbea's battery is in the down tube so not an option. I just use a waterless washing system and to date had no issues.



How do you replace it when it reaches its recharge limit?


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## Alba Zeus (18 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How do you replace it when it reaches its recharge limit?



Will send it to Sigma (who I purchased it from) or an e-bike specialist to have it replaced. I'm sure there will be a way for a specialist to do it.

HERE it is


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## Tenkaykev (18 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How do you replace it when it reaches its recharge limit?


Looks a bit fiddly, but if it went in it will come out. From the shape of the battery pack it looks as though it could be recelled if not "chipped "


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Aug 2021)

Tenkaykev said:


> Looks a bit fiddly, but if it went in it will come out. From the shape of the battery pack it looks as though it could be recelled if not "chipped "



There’s a panel to unbolt to release it then?


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## Mike_P (18 Aug 2021)

Batteries suffer in cold weather so if integral best to store the bike somewhere where their is heating.


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## BoldonLad (18 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Despite what I read as a carefully worded first post, this all went downhill too quickly, didn't it?


Indeed…. No surprise there


----------



## kayakerles (18 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> I think I've mildly upset a couple of passing cyclists when they've seen my age and size, and asked in an almost-rhetorical tone 'Electric?' and I've said 'no ...'. They definitely had a disappointed look on their face at my response - I think they wanted to pat themselves on the back for overtaking 'someone on an _electric _bike'; there's not much to congratulate oneself about, when passing a minute old lady on an exclusively-_pedal_ bike!


Live and let live, ride and let ride. ✌


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## BoldonLad (18 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> Thanks! Yes, I’m a bit shocked! I’ll have to be more careful with my wording in the future!


Please don’t (be more careful with your wording)


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## BoldonLad (18 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Who would have thought a thread about ebikes would cause such trouble.
> 
> Some electrically charged tempers.


Would they be classified as e-tempers?


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## dodgy (18 Aug 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd buy one just to upset people who get upset by them.


Go on then, buy one 🤷‍♂️


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## Alba Zeus (18 Aug 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Batteries suffer in cold weather so if integral best to store the bike somewhere where their is heating.



Mine is kept indoors


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## Smokin Joe (18 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Go on then, buy one 🤷‍♂️


Not out of the question at some point.


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## gzoom (19 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Gocycle have a fantastic implementation of the torque sensor, you can set it an almost infinite amount of ways as it has a power meter built in and an accompanying app. For instance you can ask that no assistance at all is provided until you put in (say) 300 watts. I'm not sure many if any other bikes are doing that.



Pretty sure all half decent eBikes give you the option. The problem is once you are 'use to' the high assistance, you really notice riding an eBike with no assistance on.

I do my commutes on the eBike to work these day wearing normal cloth and shoes, with the assistance set on 'max', no sweat needed, and it allows me to travel between different inner city sites without worrying about parking or traffic. Its cut down my car usage for traveling cross site in the city by 100%, and reduced my car usage for normal commute by at least 50%.

Not sure why any cyclist would 'hate' eBikes?


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## Tenkaykev (19 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> There’s a panel to unbolt to release it then?


There’s several steps judging by the YouTube video I found, including removing the bottom bracket by the look of things 😮


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## Kajjal (19 Aug 2021)

EBikes or Enid’s as my spell checker calls them are very useful for alot of people. I was off road on my mountain bike going fast and noticed some one aged about 70 behind me. Ten minutes later they were still there  , turns out he had a EBike mountain bike and was really enjoying mountain biking as part of his retirement


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## jowwy (19 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Go on then, buy one 🤷‍♂️





Smokin Joe said:


> Not out of the question at some point.


i bought a 2nd E bike to keep my first one company in the man cave, they get lonely on their own lol


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## gbb (19 Aug 2021)

There must be lots of odd people out there....or very few (maybe non) here.
I never ever had anyone say anything negative about ebikes, from other cyclists or drivers, or anyone at all.
It's the same with drivers vs cyclists, yeah I've had 'interactions' but nothing other than isolated incidents.

Just ride on, be happy, stop worrying about what others may (or probably dont IME) think.

Even if someone ever did say something negative...I think my reply would be...'who gives a fig ?'


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## newfhouse (19 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> i bought a 2nd E bike to keep my first one company in the man cave, they get lonely on their own lol


I’m thinking of getting a second one to use on the turbo.


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 Aug 2021)

I did have someone pass me and say I was cheating a few days ago

although as he was laughing and smiling at the time I don;t count it as hating - just joking
Have to give the 2 of them credit - they were on normal mountain bikes and pulled ahead of me consistently in spite of me doing 15-17 mph
(for anyone interested - I was in minimum assist as usual - normally if someone passes me I have to drop to zero assist or I tend to end up catching them back up again at that speed!)


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## Pale Rider (19 Aug 2021)

When I first started ebiking about 10 years ago negative comments were fairly common.

Despite several false dawns in that time, it does appear ebikes have finally joined the mainstream, which has helped their overall acceptance from the minority who don't like them.

I can't recall the last time I had a snidey remark.

Quite the reverse, I've been on a few forum and group rides where my ability to plod on into a headwind has been appreciated by those were able to take shelter behind.


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## jowwy (19 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> I’m thinking of getting a second one to use on the turbo.


Ive tried that…..doesnt work the best, so bought a new bike for that purpose


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## Mike_P (19 Aug 2021)

Once past 15.5 it's down to pedal power which with a heavy rucksack is sometimes not that attractive so the weird application of the brakes to keep the speed at assist levels. One thing that really does catch me out is trying to judge the right gear/ assist level coming off a decent onto a upgrade and the moment comes where speed is dropping but the motor has not kicked in meanwhile legs are spinning aimlessly.


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## newfhouse (19 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> doesnt work the best


Why not? I thought I could leave it plugged in so it would never go flat.


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## jowwy (19 Aug 2021)

newfhouse said:


> Why not? I thought I could leave it plugged in so it would never go flat.


its not about it going flat, its about how the assist cuts in and out and of you got a smart turbo ( like i have) and using zwift ( like i do) it screws up the power readings........


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## Pale Rider (19 Aug 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Once past 15.5 it's down to pedal power which with a heavy rucksack is sometimes not that attractive so the weird application of the brakes to keep the speed at assist levels. One thing that really does catch me out is trying to judge the right gear/ assist level coming off a decent onto a upgrade and the moment comes where speed is dropping but the motor has not kicked in meanwhile legs are spinning aimlessly.



What bike is it?

Something with a more sophisticated control system, having speed, cadence, and torque sensors, will not do that.

On such a bike the motor will cut in seamlessly as soon as the speed drops below the cut off.

Although same as a push bike, it's still possible to be caught in the wrong gear when the gradient changes.


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## dodgy (19 Aug 2021)

/woosh


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## Mike_P (19 Aug 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> What bike is it?
> 
> Something with a more sophisticated control system, having speed, cadence, and torque sensors, will not do that.
> 
> ...


It's a Giant so it's probably just rider error and feeling the need the pedal due to the riding gradient having free wheeled down a steep hill.


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## Pale Rider (19 Aug 2021)

Mike_P said:


> It's a Giant so it's probably just rider error and feeling the need the pedal due to the riding gradient having free wheeled down a steep hill.



Which Giant?

The crank drive ones have a sophisticated control system which ought to behave better than you describe.

The hub motor ones are less sophisticated and could give the symptoms you describe.


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## Mike_P (19 Aug 2021)

Crank driven. I'll try not peddling so soon off the decent and let the motor kick in when it wants next time.


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## Pale Rider (19 Aug 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Crank driven. I'll try not peddling so soon off the decent and let the motor kick in when it wants next time.



Giant use an own brand version of the Yamaha crank drive and control system, which is pretty good, although it's known not to be quite so smooth in power delivery as the Bosch.

Maybe a change of technique is required.

It would be interesting to see if you got on any better with a Bosch bike.

Hardly worth a test for the sake of it, but I would suggest you try one when you are thinking of changing.


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## fossyant (19 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> its not about it going flat, its about how the assist cuts in and out and of you got a smart turbo ( like i have) and using zwift ( like i do) it screws up the power readings........



If you are going to cheat on Zwift, you might as well put your weight in as 45kg, and a 5ft woman. 

Only kidding, lots of cheat's on Zwift, so just ride and suffer normally on a normal bike, as stuff everyone else.  It's only good for monitoring your own progress.


----------



## Mike_P (19 Aug 2021)

Not in a hurry to change the ebike, got it March last year for just under £1.4k when they were £2k and now £3k


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## carpiste (19 Aug 2021)

Cathryn said:


> *Before I start, I am ABSOLUTELY not being elitist or a cycling snob. I have NOTHING against eBikes* - my running buddy got one and it has transformed her into a cyclist and has brought her so much pleasure. I love that I get to cycle with her. I'm trying to persuade my parents to get eBikes and I'm planning to get one myself when I'm older and need that extra support.
> However...
> I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see *perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes *and I wonder why? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are *a) obesity and b) climate.* eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?



I look perfectly healthy and fit. I suffer with a blood clot in the left leg which I have to put up with, can`t walk 200 metres but can cycle 30-40 miles with relative ease.... but only with assistance from my electric bike.
You say that e-bikes don`t help with obesity? Well I can assure you they do! I have lost well over 2 stones and after being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes I am well on the way to reversing it! Because I am on the bike I no longer do short journeys, that I had to do, in the car!
It appears to me that you do have something against e-bikes, that you are being elitist and that comes across from your comments. 
I once knew a woman who used to say" I don`t mean to be rude but..." and then have a pop at certain minorities. She was reported and reprimanded because she was not just being rude but downright nasty!
Now I`m not saying you are as bad as that person but you should consider that not everyone is so obviously disabled!


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## Cathryn (19 Aug 2021)

carpiste said:


> I look perfectly healthy and fit. I suffer with a blood clot in the left leg which I have to put up with, can`t walk 200 metres but can cycle 30-40 miles with relative ease.... but only with assistance from my electric bike.
> You say that e-bikes don`t help with obesity? Well I can assure you they do! I have lost well over 2 stones and after being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes I am well on the way to reversing it! Because I am on the bike I no longer do short journeys, that I had to do, in the car!
> It appears to me that you do have something against e-bikes, that you are being elitist and that comes across from your comments.
> I once knew a woman who used to say" I don`t mean to be rude but..." and then have a pop at certain minorities. She was reported and reprimanded because she was not just being rude but downright nasty!
> Now I`m not saying you are as bad as that person but you should consider that not everyone is so obviously disabled!


Thanks for the feedback. I'm really glad you're enjoying your eBike.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Aug 2021)

e=bikes are for anyone who wants one. If they're twenty something and fit as a butchers dog so what? Their choice, their business.


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## PaulSB (19 Aug 2021)

I did feel a bit aggrieved when I was passed by an ebike on Honister today.


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## Richard A Thackeray (19 Aug 2021)

What was the e-bike that Guy Martin tried in the programme about electric cars, that even he (with his experience on Superbikes) got thrown off under acceleration?


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 Aug 2021)

assuming that all ebikers are on EU/UK type legal ebikes

then every person out on an ebike is s person pedalling on a 2 wheel machine of fairly small assistance 
out in the fresh air getting a level of exercise

I go back to a bloke who called me a cheat a few years ago - as I was at my 10 mile turning point and he was loading his MTB onto his 2 litre Mondeo
exactly who was cheating mate with your 2 litre emiisions on your way home!!!


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## cougie uk (19 Aug 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> What was the e-bike that Guy Martin tried in the programme about electric cars, that even he (with his experience on Superbikes) got thrown off under acceleration?


Was it the same one that broke Simon Cowell's back last year when he did the same ? Crazy powerful.


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## CXRAndy (20 Aug 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> What was the e-bike that Guy Martin tried in the programme about electric cars, that even he (with his experience on Superbikes) got thrown off under acceleration?





cougie uk said:


> Was it the same one that broke Simon Cowell's back last year when he did the same ? Crazy powerful.



That was an electric motorcycle not an e-bike.


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## Mike Ayling (20 Aug 2021)

See my signature


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## CXRAndy (20 Aug 2021)

Mike Ayling said:


> See my signature


*Recreational e-bikes strictly for the sick, lame and lazy.*

I understand your ignorance, but you're wrong


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## Pale Rider (20 Aug 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Was it the same one that broke Simon Cowell's back last year when he did the same ? Crazy powerful.



There are a few bikes of the type used by Martin and Cowell, the best known is a Stealth Bomber.

The instant full torque of the powerful rear motor mean they wheelie for fun, and as both men discovered, tend to throw their riders off the back.

Top speed usually around 50/60mph.

As observed, they are electric motorbikes so have nothing in common with ebikes.

https://stealthelectricbikes.com/stealth-b-52/


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## MrGrumpy (20 Aug 2021)

No axe to grind with ebikes or there riders but……… I’d hate to have to buy a replacement battery  . Some are rather spendy to replace.

Could I see myself with one ? possibly in the future due to dodgy joints. However I quite like getting in a sweaty mess as my commute was/is a work out for me.


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## Richard A Thackeray (20 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> assuming that all ebikers are on EU/UK type legal ebikes


There's a lad at work, who brags that his altered e-bike will touch 50MPH
I've seen him weaving, overtaking traffic, ignoring traffic-lights

Those of us who are serious riders, & abide by the rules of the road/British Cycling/CTC membership (for the insurance), we have told him that *we WILL *advise the Police to very closely examine his bike, if he has a RTC, that injures someone else (or damages their property)
He's been numerous times by a lot of people that he'll be in 'a world of hurt' if he (& hopefully not, for anyone else involved) has that RTC




CXRAndy said:


> That was an electric motorcycle not an e-bike.


I stand corrected, it was from memory
I think it's still on the Tivo box, so I'll have another look when I get home from work, tonight


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## Mike_P (20 Aug 2021)

With any luck he will mistakenly overtake a police car - one crushed ebike coming up


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## ebikeerwidnes (20 Aug 2021)

People who say that ebikes are only for the old sick lazy etc etc etc are mistaken in one main thing

cycling is not (in my opinion) a thing you do for fitness

some people, like me, consider cycling a thing to do for transport (i.e. commuting to an office - or in my case school) therefore purely functional.
and - more importantly - for pleasure - gentle exercise in the open air

so I regard it as like walking along a nice path
as opposed to jogging/running
nothing against joggers and runners - but I'd rather go slower and watch the scenery and look at the birds and boats and whatever
and I couldn't get to many interesting places with a motor to give me a small helping hand - or a bigger one if needed - because it increases my average speed and greatly increases my potential range per ride


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## MrGrumpy (20 Aug 2021)

Never seen a skinny E bike rider  . That is all............


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## jowwy (20 Aug 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Never seen a skinny E bike rider  . That is all............


you must hang around with the wrong people then......


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## vickster (20 Aug 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Never seen a skinny E bike rider  . That is all............


Plenty of young skinny Deliveroo e-bikers around these parts (they don't get skinny by pedalling their de-restricted rides though )


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## jowwy (20 Aug 2021)

its strange how this topic has suddenly turned into a moanathon from non-ebikers about de-restricted ebikes......get a life and stop moaning about what other's want to ride.


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## CXRAndy (20 Aug 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> However I quite like getting in a sweaty mess as my commute was/is a work out for me.



You can still get in a sweaty mess on an ebike, just turn it off or pedal much harder. 

The benefit to them is, you can instantly flatten most hills or pacify a stiff headwind if desired. 

Ive been using mine to get a good cardio endurance workout. Its been rather breezy recently, but its not been an issue at all. 70 ebike miles this week with two 1.5hr zone 2 endurance outings 

Bearing in mind upto July, I'd only ridden 26 miles outdoors in nearly a year. This month knocking on 300 miles with an ebike. So its got me back out riding.


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## vickster (20 Aug 2021)

Why weren’t you riding before?


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## MrGrumpy (20 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> its strange how this topic has suddenly turned into a moanathon from non-ebikers about de-restricted ebikes......get a life and stop moaning about what other's want to ride.


Wind your neck in, it was tongue in cheek !


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## jowwy (20 Aug 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Wind your neck in, it was tongue in cheek !


yours may have been but the stealth post likers certainly aren't tongue in cheek and they do it on every Ebike thread.........


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Aug 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> There's a lad at work, who brags that his altered e-bike will touch 50MPH
> I've seen him weaving, overtaking traffic, ignoring traffic-lights
> 
> Those of us who are serious riders, & abide by the rules of the road/British Cycling/CTC membership (for the insurance), we have told him that *we WILL *advise the Police to very closely examine his bike, if he has a RTC, that injures someone else (or damages their property)
> ...



So the lad has an e moped that needs tax, insurance, MOT (after 3 years), registering, plates etc…


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## Richard A Thackeray (20 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> So the lad has an e moped that needs tax, insurance, MOT (after 3 years), registering, plates etc…


Yes
In our eyes, & legally
Not in his..........

He's already stated that he'll just say _It Was Like That When I Bought It_

Of course, he doesn't believe the expression; _Ignorance Of The Law Is No Defence_ exists


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## Chief Broom (20 Aug 2021)

I have mixed feelings regarding ebikes both for and against....I like seeing older [70 up] people using and enjoying them, doing there shopping/getting a paper then going for a spin around the loch. Then i feel if they had gone through a few months of leg strengthening, grimacing on the hills etc on a non power assisted bike they would be self sufficient ie i'll be 'weaned' and they'll still be sucking at the electric nipple for the rest of their days  This is the process im on and in a couple of months will have adequate strength. I always wave at the local ebikers on my regular routes and have a suspicion that they envy my leg power only ride and determination to get there  could be totally wrong of course!
Some of the tourist here chugging around the NC500 in some behemoth of a motorhome and consider they're 'green' because they have a couple of ebikes strapped to the back.....not impressed with that. 
In the end i guess i regard powered and unpowered as different species...ones free and the other isnt but will cheerily wave to both


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## KnittyNorah (20 Aug 2021)

Chief Broom said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding ebikes both for and against....I like seeing older [70 up] people using and enjoying them, doing there shopping/getting a paper then going for a spin around the loch. Then i feel if they had gone through a few months of leg strengthening, grimacing on the hills etc on a non power assisted bike they would be self sufficient ie i'll be 'weaned' and they'll still be sucking at the electric nipple for the rest of their days



These are somewhat my thoughts - although in my case the lack of any electric bike which 'fits' me had more to do with my not getting one, than anything else. 
However, although I'm really enjoying building up the length and duration of my rides, I live in the flatlands and I have to be honest about the strength that I can realistically expect from one normal leg and one with very damaged joints. If I am happy to never ride up a hill that is anything more than a slight slope, I'll never go electric - but if I do want to ride a few hills, even mild ones, it'll have to be with assistance ... One effective leg only, won't even take me over the up side of a hump-backed bridge! 

I'll give it until next spring or summer before I make a final decision, but having found a nice bike which fits me, there's a definite possibility that a front wheel conversion kit is in the offing.


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## MrGrumpy (21 Aug 2021)

Chief Broom said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding ebikes both for and against....I like seeing older [70 up] people using and enjoying them, doing there shopping/getting a paper then going for a spin around the loch. Then i feel if they had gone through a few months of leg strengthening, grimacing on the hills etc on a non power assisted bike they would be self sufficient ie i'll be 'weaned' and they'll still be sucking at the electric nipple for the rest of their days  This is the process im on and in a couple of months will have adequate strength. I always wave at the local ebikers on my regular routes and have a suspicion that they envy my leg power only ride and determination to get there  could be totally wrong of course!
> Some of the tourist here chugging around the NC500 in some behemoth of a motorhome and consider they're 'green' because they have a couple of ebikes strapped to the back.....not impressed with that.
> In the end i guess i regard powered and unpowered as different species...ones free and the other isnt but will cheerily wave to both


That’s fairly true some of the ebike riders I’ve met on my commute are envious as they freely admit they couldn’t do what I was doing day in day out. They would be knackered.


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## gbb (21 Aug 2021)

Chief Broom said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding ebikes both for and against....I like seeing older [70 up] people using and enjoying them, doing there shopping/getting a paper then going for a spin around the loch. Then i feel if they had gone through a few months of leg strengthening, grimacing on the hills etc on a non power assisted bike they would be self sufficient ie i'll be 'weaned' and they'll still be sucking at the electric nipple for the rest of their days  This is the process im on and in a couple of months will have adequate strength. I always wave at the local ebikers on my regular routes and have a suspicion that they envy my leg power only ride and determination to get there  could be totally wrong of course!


In some cases, you're absolutely right. This mornings ride saw me chugging along on my ebike. I became aware a roadie was coming up behind me but we were approaching an incline, I just carried on. 3/4 mile later that roadie (female) overtook me....
'you made that look too easy ' she cheerily said.
'I'm envious of you, not me ' I replied.
'Well thankyou' at the compliment.

Only people that fought and won the fight for fitness tend to recognise the work that went in.

The flip side, as you get older, it gets harder, even if you're not harbouring something holding you back.


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## CXRAndy (21 Aug 2021)

Chief Broom said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding ebikes both for and against....I like seeing older [70 up]



The thing is, most folk, dont give a hoot what others think-I dont. 

I've ridden road bikes, MTB, shopper, touring bikes. Ive done some big rides over 100miles, tours in the Alps, Tenerife and even a competitive TOC  

Now, I currently ride a super dooper Ebike for fun. Its helping me get back my fitness after a year long break for regular non assist riding. It doesn't mean I wont ride an non assist bike or get back to something like the speed or fitness I had previously.

I wouldn't give a monkey's chuff if I passed or got passed by another non or ebike rider. 

All I would say, nice bike or how do whilst passing


----------



## dodgy (21 Aug 2021)

I have 4 conventional bikes (2 carbon, one titanium and a steel one), I enjoy the challenge of doing a long hard ride in the hills and coming back absolutely wasted then enjoy a beer or two in the evening. I also have an e-bike (and yes I've been told I'm cheating just once, the rider was joking, but I didn't get a chance to point out that just the day beforeI had ridden 150 miles unassisted to Bala and area then back home again! I was on the ebike instead of using a car, not instead of cycling. The cheats are the ones in the car doing 1 mile journeys for a bag of sugar ).

Anyway, many people don't enjoy cycling in the way that I do (see bit above about coming home ruined), but if from I am seeing is right, in 20 years there will be a vanishingly small number of cyclists who prefer to go unassisted and get the fitness benefits. I see it as a bit like schoolkids (the so called playstation generation) who have measurably lower fitness levels than the last generation. It's a downward spiral, we'll just get less fit as time goes by. And yeah yeah, I know the well worn trotted out "but you can still get a good workout on an ebike" line, but I'm not convinced most ebikers are riding in such a way.

Ride what you want where you want, just don't derestrict it


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## jowwy (21 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> I have 4 conventional bikes (2 carbon, one titanium and a steel one), I enjoy the challenge of doing a long hard ride in the hills and coming back absolutely wasted then enjoy a beer or two in the evening. I also have an e-bike (and yes I've been told I'm cheating just once, the rider was joking, but I didn't get a chance to point out that just the day beforeI had ridden 150 miles unassisted to Bala and area then back home again! I was on the ebike instead of using a car, not instead of cycling. The cheats are the ones in the car doing 1 mile journeys for a bag of sugar ).
> 
> Anyway, many people don't enjoy cycling in the way that I do (see bit above about coming home ruined), but if from I am seeing is right, in 20 years there will be a vanishingly small number of cyclists who prefer to go unassisted and get the fitness benefits. I see it as a bit like schoolkids (the so called playstation generation) who have measurably lower fitness levels than the last generation. It's a downward spiral, we'll just get less fit as time goes by. And yeah yeah, I know the well worn trotted out "but you can still get a good workout on an ebike" line, but I'm not convinced most ebikers are riding in such a way.
> 
> Ride what you want where you want, *just don't derestrict it*


I wonder if the petrol heads say that to their bretherens of the car world…….enjoy you drive bruv, but dont boost that twin turbo v8 you got, with an aftermarket remap, or dont add that new petrol injector system, or dont add that gas injector switch, yadda yaddda……

if people want to de-restrict, its none of your business


----------



## dodgy (21 Aug 2021)

It is my business if they're riding at 30mph+ on cycle paths I'm using. It's also against the law *

* this is not a troll - before you start.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> if people want to de-restrict, its none of your business



It absolutely is everyone’s business if they don’t register, licence, insure, MOT (after 3 years) and ride it for what it is. A Moped. Staying off and out of all cycle infrastructure


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> if people want to de-restrict, its none of your business



Only if used on private land. Once you take a derestricted e-bike out on to the public highway, it absolutely *is* my business because you're riding an unlicenced, unregistered, uninsured electrically powered motorbike. Stick to the rules or stay off the roads.


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## MrGrumpy (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> if people want to de-restrict, its none of your business


Too right I have an issue as that’s a danger , same as someone flying down a cycle path on a non assisted. A complete wan……..k….r . Have some sense !


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## jowwy (21 Aug 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Too right I have an issue as that’s a danger , same as someone flying down a cycle path on a non assisted. A complete wan……..k….r . Have some sense !


So is boosting cars a danger…….so is running with headphones a danger…..so is riding with headphones a danger…and so on and so on

but as i said, none of mine or anyone elses business


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## jowwy (21 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> It is my business if they're riding at 30mph+ on cycle paths I'm using. It's also against the law *
> 
> * this is not a troll - before you start.


So driving 80mph+ on the rides…..or driving uninsured or un mot’d or unlicenced and so and so on

we can go all day making our quips and quotes and it still wont stop it happening, whether we like it or not

and i know what the law is…..i dont need an internet nobody to tell me.


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## dodgy (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> So driving 80mph+ on the rides…..or driving uninsured or un mot’d or unlicenced and so and so on
> 
> we can go all day making our quips and quotes and it still wont stop it happening, whether we like it or not
> 
> and i know what the law is…..i dont need an internet nobody to tell me.


Oh mate, you have problems. Go on, report the nasty man again.

I'm done with you, you're just a big baby. I posted a reasonably well thought out post above, trying to see both sides, but I will hold the line at illegality. As usual you take it all personal. 

Blocked now anyway.

Mods, if you sensor my post you can delete my account. I'm serious 🤷‍♂️


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## jowwy (21 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Oh mate, you have problems. Go on, report the nasty man again.
> 
> I'm done with you, you're just a big baby. I posted a reasonably well thought out post above, trying to see both sides, but I will hold the line at illegality. As usual you take it all personal.
> 
> ...


Nothing personal in my post and not acting like a baby either…..just telling you as it is, if you cant accept that, its says more about you than it does about me….

its strange really, your than one moaning and groaning about de-restricted bikes and you call me the baby. And can you list what i took personally??? Both my E bikes are fully legal, so i have no need to take anything personally


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## vickster (21 Aug 2021)

dodgy said:


> Oh mate, you have problems. Go on, report the nasty man again.
> 
> I'm done with you, you're just a big baby. I posted a reasonably well thought out post above, trying to see both sides, but I will hold the line at illegality. As usual you take it all personal.
> 
> ...


Is that a de-restricted engine sensor?


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## Rickshaw Phil (21 Aug 2021)

Guys I gave you fair warning.

Back on topic again from here.


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## boydj (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> I wonder if the petrol heads say that to their bretherens of the car world…….enjoy you drive bruv, but dont boost that twin turbo v8 you got, with an aftermarket remap, or dont add that new petrol injector system, or dont add that gas injector switch, yadda yaddda……
> 
> if people want to de-restrict, its none of your business



If it makes the roads, or cycle tracks in particular, less safe then it's everybody's business. The mindset that needs to de-restrict an electric bike is not one with everybody else's safety in mind.


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## gbb (21 Aug 2021)

jowwy said:


> So is boosting cars a danger…….so is running with headphones a danger…..so is riding with headphones a danger…and so on and so on
> 
> but as i said, none of mine or anyone elses business


Its non of your business what I think either, you cant have it both ways.
You dont get to decide what someone elses business is.


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## Drago (22 Aug 2021)

It's very much societies business when someone breaks the law, because when enough people don't the typical response is a "crackdown". 

This is often accompanied by a change in legislation that usually punishes the law abiding because of the behaviour of a few twits.

Whether it's dangerous or not is almost irrelevant. It's illegal, and it's selfish, and those alone are good enough reasons to not only not do it, but to not be stupid enough to boast about it when they so.


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## ebikeerwidnes (22 Aug 2021)

The problem with 'crackdowns' is that they normally go after the people they can get to

We have all seen the things where a counsel has a crackdown on cyclists on the pedestrianised area of the High Street - the idiots on MTBs treat it as a game and ride through deliberately and ride off laughing - the normal people who are riding though slowly and carefully stop when asked to and get fined
not who they should be after but this is what happens

So - back to the point (finally!) if an area is having problems with 'ebike riders' - whether they are ebikes (i.e. legal) or basically mopeds - then they will stop everyone on a bike and check it
the drug dealers who are - apparently - using illegal ebikes to delivery drugs - will zoom off up paths and tracks (as previously planned) and get away
But I will be left wondering how to prove I actually own my bike and it is legal - because I think maybe 50% of Police actually know how to determine whether an ebike is legal or not


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## Dogtrousers (23 Aug 2021)

Here's a little question about e-bikes. 

I know they are limited by law to the top speed at which they provide assist, but are they also required to _only_ provide assist (and not be the only power source)? That is, is it necessary for you to be pedalling for the motor to kick in?

The reason I ask this is I was walking through our local park this weekend, down a gentle hill (maybe 3%) and a Deliveroo rider was coming up the hill. Not super fast, maybe 20kmh/12 mph but he wasn't pedalling _at all_, the motor was doing all the work. 

Does that mean he was riding a Naughty Bike that had been modified? Or have I misunderstood what the law is?

I don't particularly care, he wasn't creating a nuisance or anything. I'm just curious.


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## numbnuts (23 Aug 2021)

WoW this thread still going, must have some bloody good batterys ..........


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## FrankCrank (23 Aug 2021)

numbnuts said:


> WoW this thread still going, must have some bloody good batterys ..........


Aah, I see. I thought you needed a long cable.


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## CXRAndy (23 Aug 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Here's a little question about e-bikes.
> 
> I know they are limited by law to the top speed at which they provide assist, but are they also required to _only_ provide assist (and not be the only power source)? That is, is it necessary for you to be pedalling for the motor to kick in?
> 
> ...


He will have a thumb throttle too.

Its more stealthy to have a speed assist motor, so you ghost pedal to move at a set power output


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## numbnuts (23 Aug 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Here's a little question about e-bikes.
> 
> I know they are limited by law to the top speed at which they provide assist, but are they also required to _only_ provide assist (and not be the only power source)? That is, is it necessary for you to be pedalling for the motor to kick in?
> 
> ...


Machines made before 2016 had/could a throttle, when the law changed granddad rules applied i.e. you could carry on using it.
All brand new machine can not have a throttle, if they do it can only go up to 4mph.


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## GuyBoden (26 Jan 2022)

I saw a bloke today riding a nice electric bike, but he had odd shoes on, one black trainer, one blue trainer, normal trainers, but just odd.

Is wearing odd shoes an electric bike thing, signifying membership of a secret club?


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## ebikeerwidnes (26 Jan 2022)

No - 

BURN THE WITCH

sorry - I mean - what's the problem?? maybe he has 2 pairs and the left one of the black pair is more comfy than the right - and the right one of the blue pair is more comfy than the left

so 2 comfy pairs - just not as sold


but no - not an ebike thing - unless you but comfort and convenience as part of riding an ebike - in which case it makes perfect sense



UNLESS - roll of drums

he is 
*Belgarath the Sorcerer* was the father and ultimate grandfather, respectively, of Polgara and Belgarion. He was called _*the Ancient and Beloved*_ in the Mrin Codex and _*The Eternal Man*_ by various storytellers and was generally regarded as the most powerful sorcerer in the universe. 


look it up


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## Deafie (26 Jan 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> No axe to grind with ebikes or there riders but……… I’d hate to have to buy a replacement battery  . Some are rather spendy to replace.
> 
> Could I see myself with one ? possibly in the future due to dodgy joints. However I quite like getting in a sweaty mess as my commute was/is a work out for me.


I had to replace the battery and harness on my Tern after 650 miles...$600, I was fuming


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## ianrauk (27 Jan 2022)

Deafie said:


> I had to replace the battery and harness on my Tern after 650 miles...$600, I was fuming


For what reason?


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## CXRAndy (27 Jan 2022)

Deafie said:


> I had to replace the battery and harness on my Tern after 650 miles...$600, I was fuming


Out of warranty or secondhand purchase.


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## cougie uk (27 Jan 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I saw a bloke today riding a nice electric bike, but he had odd shoes on, one black trainer, one blue trainer, normal trainers, but just odd.
> 
> Is wearing odd shoes an electric bike thing, signifying membership of a secret club?


I went to work in odd shoes once. I only noticed at lunch when I got changed for swimming. Maybe it was dark when he got dressed.


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## Deafie (21 Feb 2022)

ianrauk said:


> For what reason?





CXRAndy said:


> Out of warranty or secondhand purchase.


I bought the bike off Craigslist, it was brand new, unridden and with all the paperwork for less than half price. I was pretty sure the bike was stolen so I paid with paypal and immediately took the serial number to the the local plod to run through the system and also to my local Tern dealer, who I have a good relationship with and he scanned the qr thing to see if anything came up; all was good but I have no warranty. 
I rode the bike very hard, mostly as a shuttle between my place in Queens and my ex wife's place in the city but also as a bike train bike commuter. The roads are very rough round here and I think that the extreme vibration destroyed the harness. The battery was fine as far as I could tell when I took it into the shop but died while there for some mysterious reason. As I said, I know the guy from past dealings and trust him more than most so I give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## Deafie (21 Feb 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I went to work in odd shoes once. I only noticed at lunch when I got changed for swimming. Maybe it was dark when he got dressed.


I've done that, got dressed in the dark then noticed my feet when on the train


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## derrick (21 Feb 2022)

Cathryn said:


> Before I start, I am ABSOLUTELY not being elitist or a cycling snob. I have NOTHING against eBikes - my running buddy got one and it has transformed her into a cyclist and has brought her so much pleasure. I love that I get to cycle with her. I'm trying to persuade my parents to get eBikes and I'm planning to get one myself when I'm older and need that extra support.
> 
> However...
> 
> I'm not thrilled about how the cycling world is going all electric. I see perfectly fit, strong riders buying ebikes and I wonder why? Two of the biggest problems facing our society are a) obesity and b) climate. eBikes don't help with either of those problems and actually make the second problem worse. Why, all of a sudden, are we going electric when the beauty of a bike is that it gets you fit and transports you around with no/minimal environmental damage?


Laziness in the young, OK for oldies.


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## Phil Fouracre (21 Feb 2022)

Amazing! Haven’t looked on here for a while, and can’t believe this has got to fifteen pages 🙈😂


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## All uphill (21 Feb 2022)

derrick said:


> Laziness in the young, OK for oldies.


Do you include young people who are unwell or recovering from serious illness in that blanket judgment?


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## Smokin Joe (21 Feb 2022)

All uphill said:


> Do you include young people who are unwell or recovering from serious illness in that blanket judgment?


Or young people who just don't give a toss about bring hard core cyclists?


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## derrick (22 Feb 2022)

All uphill said:


> Do you include young people who are unwell or recovering from serious illness in that blanket judgment?


Have a day off.


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## ebikeerwidnes (22 Feb 2022)

derrick said:


> Laziness in the young, OK for oldies.


Silly comment
They are fine for anyone who wants one. Younger people use them for commuting so they can get to work with less effort - and hence less sweat - when I was a teacher I considered it rather unprofessional to get all sweaty knowning that I would be getting close to a load of kids all day.
I could have driven - and did when it was raining - but the ebike made it possible to cycle in.
Other reasons - not everyone wants to 'train' - some people just want to get some gentle exercise in the open air and actually get somewhere nice

Just like some people go for a walk - rather than going for a run
The more it encouraging people to get more exercise and get out of the house the better it is for everyone


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## Phil Fouracre (22 Feb 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Silly comment
> 
> Precisely👌


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