# Quitting Winter Commuting



## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

Something snapped last night. Yet another close pass, a DPD van driver. He was stuck behind me for ~30 seconds on a climb with stationary traffic backed up in the other lane so it wasn't possible for him to pass. I had a strong secondary position on the narrow road. He cut around sharply at the first break in the queue, but oncoming traffic meant there was not enough time pass in the other lane, cutting back in whilst passing alongside me. If I had picked up speed it would have guaranteed a collision. Such a selfish prick. If I had caught up with him my bike might well have been thrown through the windshield. It would have felt good to put the farker out of work few days whilst his van was repaired. I felt so indignant that anyone would do this deliberately to a vulnerable road user. Are we just supposed to continue to take this abuse?

It might be due to the recent arrival of my daughter, but I never thought I would feel like this. I'm seriously considering quitting night/winter cycle commuting. I'm not sure it's entirely rational... but this one section of my route which is pretty much unavoidable seems to be a black spot for dangerous and impatient drivers. There is an alternative off road route, which is OK and passable in the Spring through to early autumn... but as soon as the clocks switch it's too dark, not to mention boggy and rutted to pass safely.

I spent 3 hours last night looking at cheap city cars. Toyota Aygo, Seat Mii etc. I'm thise close to pulling the trigger. I left the bike at home today. It feels sad that it has come to this. I'm strongly pro cycle commuting and hate dependance on motor transport, it's a source of many frustrations and I feel conflicted contributing to congestion/air pollution/climate change, not to mention sitting in traffic, but the infrastructure for safe cycling is just not available for the most dangerous sections of my commute. I feel I don't have an alternative.

Anyone else here quit commuting come winter time?


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## Drago (30 Jan 2019)

Do you think this idiots behaviour would be any better during the summer months?


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> Do you think this idiots behaviour would be any better during the summer months?


No, hence the not entirely rational part, but alternative routes are available then.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

Did you get his registration? Report it to both the police and DPD with date, time and road.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

Don't make any rash descisions. Take a week off. Go for a trail cycle at the weekend. You are understandably rattled right now. Don't throw in the towel yet though.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Did you get his registration? Report it to both the police and DPD with date, time and road.


Yes, I have footage too. West yorkshire police have been rubbish lately at dealing with my reports, after initial success when I first got my camera. I'll not bother again. Reporting drivers doesn't correlate with a reduction of twunts in the road, sadly, therefore reporting seems futile to me.

I am definitely hoping to take the rest of the week off. Trouble is we only have one car and DW requires the use of it most days... hence the knee jerk reaction to looking into used cars.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> but as soon as the clocks switch it's too dark, not to mention boggy and rutted to pass safely.



Would a mountain bike with good lights help you make this trail a 12 month route?


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> Would a mountain bike with good lights help you make this trail a 12 month route?


Possibly. I think I need to give this some real consideration. Not sure I fancy a 10 mile commute with knobbly tyres and getting regularly caked in mud!


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## Drago (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Yes, I have footage too. West yorkshire police have been rubbish lately at dealing with my reports, after initial success when I first got my camera. I'll not bother again. Reporting drivers doesn't correlate with a reduction of twunts in the road, sadly, therefore reporting seems futile to me.
> 
> I am definitely hoping to take the rest of the week off. Trouble is we only have one car and DW requires the use of it most days... hence the knee jerk reaction to looking into used cars.



Download the footage and put a link on DPD's Twitbook page.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> Download the footage and put a link on DPD's Twitbook page.


Yes I will do this!


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Possibly. I think I need to give this some real consideration. Not sure I fancy a 10 mile commute with knobbly tyres and getting regularly caked in mud!


mudgaurds and hybrid tyres will be fine im sure mate. Also the extra resistance will only serve to make you fitter and stronger!


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

I would say if you have a preferable route that is fine in summer, (I assume on a road bike?). I'll bet it is passable in winter with a cyclocross bike with hybrid tyres, lights and mudguards. I converted my road bike to a cyclocross with 32C hybrid tyres and use it all year on very mixed surfaces (road, towpath and light trail). I would go this route. Also cycling trails at night with lights is lots of fun.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

I ride a Surly Straggler year round (a gravel bike) with Marathon Winters (35C), when spikes are not in use I ride semi-knobbly (38C) G-Ones, so off roading itself isn't an issue, I'm taking this route in the spring.

Some of the off road route is quite steep and technical, which is what puts me off riding in the dark. It's not an easy flat trail by any stretch. Getting off and pushing those bits is feasible, but still, I'll get really muddy and bogged down in other parts. Maybe I'll try the route this weekend after dark and see what it's really like. I won't be able to drop 6k on a car this month anyway, and finance isn't an option because we need to remortgage our house soon for a better rate and would rather not have that on my credit liabilities!

I think this might have to do for now anyway!


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

Yeah christ don't spend any money on a car just now. Were you happy enough cycling on the road before this incident? If so I would say time is a healer. DPD idiot will be forgotten.


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## KneesUp (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> . I won't be able to drop 6k on a car this month anyway, and no way I'm getting finance, so I think this might have to do for now anyway!


I thought you said you were looking at cheap car?! I bought a second car a few years ago because for various reasons one car wasn't enough at the time - I picked up a straight, honest Fiesta for £500. Had it through two MOTs with minimal work (one year it was a light bulb, other year about £100 worth of bushes) before I sold it for £450. I mean, it was hot in summer because the A/C didn't work, but you can use your bike then. It never once let us down, that little Fester.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

KneesUp said:


> I thought you said you were looking at cheap car?! I bought a second car a few years ago because for various reasons one car wasn't enough at the time - I picked up a straight, honest Fiesta for £500. Had it through two MOTs with minimal work (one year it was a light bulb, other year about £100 worth of bushes) before I sold it for £450. I mean, it was hot in summer because the A/C didn't work, but you can use your bike then. It never once let us down, that little Fester.


I got my car for £700 a few years ago (2004 Hyundai Santa Fe). Flies through MOT's, its mint. Just got it for the odd occasion I need to haul stuff around. Shes a V6!!  Thirsty bugger but because I use it so infrequently it doesn't cost me much or impact the environment much. Annoys me greatly my VED tax is so much (because of engine size). But I hardly use it. Really should be done on mileage.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

KneesUp said:


> I thought you said you were looking at cheap car?! I bought a second car a few years ago because for various reasons one car wasn't enough at the time - I picked up a straight, honest Fiesta for £500. Had it through two MOTs with minimal work (one year it was a light bulb, other year about £100 worth of bushes) before I sold it for £450. I mean, it was hot in summer because the A/C didn't work, but you can use your bike then. It never once let us down, that little Fester.




Fair point. To be honest, I haven't bought a really _really_ cheap car before. The thought of a £500 car makes me worry about hidden maintenance costs down the road. Capital outlay isn't my biggest problem, after I eventually sell it on, it will have only cost me the running costs and depreciation.

Having said that, I've experienced new cars with technical problems, so I'm under no illusion buying nearly new is any protection. Both my last two cars had electrical faults develop within warranty timeframes, but I didn't pay for those... so no biggy.

I'd be prepared to sell the car after a year or two if my circumstance changed. I was looking at <3 year old cars with <30k mileage, knowing full well won't be running it into the ground, putting no more than 2k on the clock over the winter. Depreciation shouldn't be a big problem based on the numbers I was running.

Out of interest, what year and how many miles did she have on her when you bought her?


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

Bin this car idea. Either A: Get back on the road once you have overcome the DPD incident. or B: Get on that "summer" trail all year round. A car is bad news. You will get fat and unfit and thats no good for your daughter!


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## ianrauk (30 Jan 2019)

Sorry to hear about this, the driver deserved a smashed windscreen after that and one day he will get what is coming to him.
Is there really no alternative road route you could take that by passes the road?


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

ianrauk said:


> Sorry to hear about this, the driver deserved a smashed windscreen after that and one day he will get what is coming to him.
> Is there really no alternative road route you could take that by passes the road?


Sadly not, coming home from the other direction would take me up a horrible 3 lane motorway like A road.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> A car is bad news. You will get fat and unfit and thats no good for your daughter!



Hah, my initial thoughts exactly, then I started entertaining picking up running again!


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## KneesUp (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Fair point. To be honest, I haven't bought a really _really_ cheap car before. The thought of a £500 car makes me worry about hidden maintenance costs down the road. Capital outlay isn't my biggest problem, after I eventually sell it on, it will have only cost me the running costs and depreciation.



But my £500 Fiesta depreciated by £50 in two years. A £6k car will depreciate much more than 10% in that time. I just make the obvious checks - does it start ok, does it sound ok, does it have weird stuff coming out the exhaust, does the MOT history suggest it's ok, does it have some service history, is the oil oil coloured, or at least black - and then take it to my local garage and get them to give it the once over once I've bought it - basically asking them what might need looking at in the next year. One car I bought they looked at on a Friday but wouldn't give it me back because they showed me photos of it's camblelt being basically down to the threads, but other than that the 4 or 5 cars I've taken to them over the years have all been fine. Don't buy a £500 car expecting it to be perfect, buy it expecting to spend a few hundred on fixing things to get yourself basically a perfectly functioning old car. Chances are you won't need to spend that money, but account for it, and you can't go far wrong.

The Fester had about 120k on her when we bought her, which is nothing for a modern engine. You can strip down a Zetec engine after 100k miles and it will still be in blueprint tolerances. The car had a complete top end rebuild about 30k prior - long enough to be new, old enough for me to be certain it had been done properly. I've bought various high mileage cars - a 120k Citroen, two 100k+ Hondas, a 90k Seat and a 90k Fiat. Only the Fiat was any bother - and it was a Fiat, so it was probably trouble when it was new. I've also drive an Alfa from c.30k to c.130k, and that was fine too. If you service a modern car properly they last a long, long time.


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## Milkfloat (30 Jan 2019)

I know this is victim blaming - but you could try taking primary position and to hell with the farkers behind.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

How long is this particularly bad stretch? Primary could be the way?


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## Racing roadkill (30 Jan 2019)

I did consider winding back the winter commutes, but my car doors were all frozen shut this morning, so, at 05:00 this morning, with -4 degrees air temperature, and ice all over the place.

https://www.relive.cc/view/2112575571

#5 #9 winter miles for Summer smiles.


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## Drago (30 Jan 2019)

What you need is a Smart car. Why spend a penny more than necessary on tax an insurance, and why cause unnecessary pollution moving around 4 empty seats? The downside is unless you're willing to take a risk and/or are a good spanner man you need to spend £2k minimum to get a viable proposition.

But really, get back on the bike.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

It's going to be spring in 4 weeks!


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## ianrauk (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> It's going to be spring in 4 weeks!




This...

It's only going to get better.
Forget about the stupid moton. Don't let moron's like that stop you from enjoying cycling and force you off the road.
As others have said, take a good primary on that part of the road.


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## I like Skol (30 Jan 2019)

KneesUp said:


> I thought you said you were looking at cheap car?!


I blame the car industry! I had a newsletter type email from the RAC last week and the headline topic was something along the lines of 'Best cheap car buys - 10 bargain buys for under £5000'

As I deleted the email and unsubscribed from future emails I did think maybe their idea of a cheap car was a little skewed.

However, it does serve the more sensible car buyer quite well because as long as the masses keep believing that anything older than Xyrs or cheaper than £5k is a death trap it just further reduces the cost of buying these perfectly good older vehicles that can be little gems if a little care is exercised during the purchase. Obviously there are some death traps out there, but they usually become apparent very quickly, even at the point of reading the advert.


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## mjr (30 Jan 2019)

Copy paste the opening post into www.writetothem.com and send it to whoever is responsible for highways (county councillor or unitary chicory in most ofEngland). It might win the lottery for us.


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## mjr (30 Jan 2019)

Also send it to DPD. Mention it in public on social media if you get no good response. Tag some of the online bike shops who use them. Get even.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I know this is victim blaming - but you could try taking primary position and to hell with the farkers behind.


Wouldn't have mattered much, I was 1/3 way out, being 1/2 would have still resulted in the cutting back in. There was no time for a safe overtake and he tried it anyway.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

KneesUp said:


> But my £500 Fiesta depreciated by £50 in two years. A £6k car will depreciate much more than 10% in that time. I just make the obvious checks - does it start ok, does it sound ok, does it have weird stuff coming out the exhaust, does the MOT history suggest it's ok, does it have some service history, is the oil oil coloured, or at least black - and then take it to my local garage and get them to give it the once over once I've bought it - basically asking them what might need looking at in the next year. One car I bought they looked at on a Friday but wouldn't give it me back because they showed me photos of it's camblelt being basically down to the threads, but other than that the 4 or 5 cars I've taken to them over the years have all been fine. Don't buy a £500 car expecting it to be perfect, buy it expecting to spend a few hundred on fixing things to get yourself basically a perfectly functioning old car. Chances are you won't need to spend that money, but account for it, and you can't go far wrong.
> 
> The Fester had about 120k on her when we bought her, which is nothing for a modern engine. You can strip down a Zetec engine after 100k miles and it will still be in blueprint tolerances. The car had a complete top end rebuild about 30k prior - long enough to be new, old enough for me to be certain it had been done properly. I've bought various high mileage cars - a 120k Citroen, two 100k+ Hondas, a 90k Seat and a 90k Fiat. Only the Fiat was any bother - and it was a Fiat, so it was probably trouble when it was new. I've also drive an Alfa from c.30k to c.130k, and that was fine too. If you service a modern car properly they last a long, long time.



I appreciate the detailed response. Some food for thought.


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## roubaixtuesday (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Something snapped last night. Yet another close pass, a DPD van driver. He was stuck behind me for ~30 seconds on a climb with stationary traffic backed up in the other lane so it wasn't possible for him to pass. I had a strong secondary position on the narrow road. He cut around sharply at the first break in the queue, but oncoming traffic meant there was not enough time pass in the other lane, cutting back in whilst passing alongside me. If I had picked up speed it would have guaranteed a collision. Such a selfish prick. If I had caught up with him my bike might well have been thrown through the windshield. It would have felt good to put the farker out of work few days whilst his van was repaired. I felt so indignant that anyone would do this deliberately to a vulnerable road user. Are we just supposed to continue to take this abuse?
> 
> It might be due to the recent arrival of my daughter, but I never thought I would feel like this. I'm seriously considering quitting night/winter cycle commuting. I'm not sure it's entirely rational... but this one section of my route which is pretty much unavoidable seems to be a black spot for dangerous and impatient drivers. There is an alternative off road route, which is OK and passable in the Spring through to early autumn... but as soon as the clocks switch it's too dark, not to mention boggy and rutted to pass safely.
> 
> ...



Much sympathy with your situation, but I'm not sure why you feel it's winter specific?

Winter commuting can be unpleasant - dark, wet , cold- but if you have decent lights personally I think you're probably safer than in summer of anything. 

Anyway, good luck and let the bastards grind you down.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

@roubaixtuesday in lighter months, I take an alternative route which means I avoid this close pass black spot, discussed above.


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## tom73 (30 Jan 2019)

I can't blame you for thinking you've had enough. Just take your time with a clear head and clear thinking having looked at the pros and cons inc the money side and end up having sat down and in the claim light of day you still go down the car route then good luck to you. 

Equally do the same with off road all year round idea. You can always try it and see how you go and how best to ride it when it's at it's worse. 

Shame you don't want to report him but if you keep getting no where than it's understandable. Posting the footage all over SM will more than do the job. Companies get very twitchy now and value good PR so will want to be seen dealing with this sort of thing. 

What ever you do it's your choice at least it sound's like this has not put you off cycling for good. Which is all power to you some would have walked away.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

@tom73 , thanks, I have been cycle commuting since 2014, I've seen it all. Verbal abuse, threats of being run over, being clobbered with tools from the back of the truck, blah blah blah. I have crashed 5 times now, 2 on slippery corners, 2 involving idiot drivers turning into junctions/cycle lanes without looking/indicating and most recently a couple pedestrians stepping out in front of me without looking. None of that put me off, it's part and parcel of mixing with people and motors, I've never been seriously hurt on account of being incredibly cautious and well versed in road positioning, but 100's of close passes in, it seems like serious injury is going to happen sooner or later. I'm not talking about run of the mill 0.5 meter passes, I'm talking about an inch or two, real nerve rattlers.


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## mudsticks (30 Jan 2019)

Understandably shaken, 

And yes having kids makes you more nervous around stuff in general, suddenly you feel a greater weight of responsibility on your shoulders. 

So if you have an accident will you feel that could have avoided it by taking the car, you should have be more 'sensible' ya de ya..

Which is a shame, cos its other people being irresponsible not you.

And the DPD driver is totally at fault.. 

But so is the company for driving the delivery schedule so hard. 

And that happens cos we want our stuff yesterday, but delivered cheap, and so on..
I'd say give yourself time, to give yourself a cool headed decision, but it's always a shame to give something up because the world is getting more inconsiderate, impatient, and uncaring. 

If we give in to all that, then the b*st*rds have won.

But at the same time it's your personal choice. 

But report it, put it outon t'internet, raise awareness all that too.. 

In the long run you'll be a fitter, happier, and better off parent if you keep cycling.
But I understand your concern too..


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## fossyant (30 Jan 2019)

I've quit commuting by bike, too many broken bones, too often, and unfortunately nearly being permanently confined to nappies and a wheel chair - gave it up.

This morning's standard of tom foolery, in the snow and ice, just backed it up. There are too many idiots on the roads.

Anyway, finishing early and going for an off road ride with my Ice Spikers


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

fossyant said:


> I've quit commuting by bike, too many broken bones, too often, and unfortunately nearly being permanently confined to nappies and a wheel chair - gave it up.
> 
> This morning's standard of tom foolery, in the snow and ice, just backed it up. There are too many idiots on the roads.
> 
> Anyway, finishing early and going for an off road ride with my Ice Spikers


Jesus. How many broken bones did you get commuting!? Touch wood but I've been bike commuting for 10 years and have never been hit yet let alone a broken bone. And yes im commuting right through traffic into the centre of Glasgow.


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## fossyant (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> Jesus. How many broken bones did you get commuting!? Touch wood but I've been bike commuting for 10 years and have never been hit yet let alone a broken bone. And yes im commuting right through traffic into the centre of Glasgow.



Smashed up shoulder around 2008 - required surgery. Broken hand about 20 years ago.

Broken ribs and slight concussion 4 years ago, then 3 years ago unstable spinal fracture (broken L1 and T12 completely through) and four ribs. 

All drivers turning across me, one ran into the back of me. That's Manchester for you - there isn't a critical mass of cyclists. Two of those accidents were hit and run.

As a married man, with two kids, and the main 'bread winner', being an invalid for 7 months plus made me re-think the risks. Being a nats whisker from being in a wheelchair (and being in resus - almost moved to intensive care - they came to the spinal ward due to the fact my blood oxygen was incredibly low) makes you think again.

It's also hard accepting these life changing injuries, hence a not such a fun 3 years, and now getting CBT, back rehab and counselling.

I'd also stopped enjoying the commute, so I'll stick to 'enjoying riding' from now on. I've stopped riding roads too.

A shame, but the injury put my family through the wrangle too much.

My wife still thinks I'm mad - I'm going out in the snow tonight, but I'll not be near any cars and I have the right equipment and spiked tyres.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

fossyant said:


> Smashed up shoulder around 2008 - required surgery. Broken hand about 20 years ago.
> 
> Broken ribs and slight concussion 4 years ago, then 3 years ago unstable spinal fracture (broken L1 and T12 completely through) and four ribs.
> 
> ...


Wow, so sorry to hear about all that. Totally understand you keeping off the road and well done for sticking it as long as you did. Sounds like you stopped just in time. Enjoy your ride tonight.


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## Drago (30 Jan 2019)

Christ, in a decade of near daily commuting all weathers and seasons, and 2 decades of casual bike commuting, I never so much as stubbed my toe! I guess I must live in a fairly quiet area of Syria.


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## fossyant (30 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> Christ, in a decade of near daily commuting all weathers and seasons, and 2 decades of casual bike commuting, I never so much as stubbed my toe! I guess I must live in a fairly quiet area of Syria.



It's like Afghanistan talaban areas in Manchester !


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## Arjimlad (30 Jan 2019)

I thought this a short while ago, after getting close passes on every possible route home. I then looked at how many times overall I had travelled these routes. My local police will generally send out a warning letter on a close pass (unless another car is endangered, in which case they will NIP which shows where the priorities lie somewhat) but obviously that's too late if one is actually biffed off the bike. I then thought about the misery of being stuck in the car & the joy of the commute into work on sunny bright mornings like today. I hope you can reflect & rationalise the statistical likelihood of being injured.


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## rogerzilla (30 Jan 2019)

I have quite a wide choice of possible routes, so I choose carefully depending on lighting and weather conditions. I don't use psyclepaths in the dark (too many unlit cyclists and chavs wanting to cause trouble).

On main roads you can almost always avoid close passes, even if deliberate, by riding far enough out that you can swing in another foot or two precisely as the vehicle passes. There is nothing they can do, even if they're deliberately trying to get you (which is vanishingly rare). You have to use your ears for this, so no headphones!


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> Christ, in a decade of near daily commuting all weathers and seasons, and 2 decades of casual bike commuting, I never so much as stubbed my toe! I guess I must live in a fairly quiet area of Syria.


20 miles a day in and out of Bradford makes you a bit of a target and we all know the more minutes we spend in the saddle, the more likely a collision is. Someone doing a gentle 3 mile pootle will experience a lot less trouble over the course of a year. Plenty of Syrians around too(*).

*Other creeds and ethnicities also widely available.


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## DCLane (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Something snapped last night. Yet another close pass, a DPD van driver. He was stuck behind me for ~30 seconds on a climb with stationary traffic backed up in the other lane so it wasn't possible for him to pass... I had a strong secondary position on the narrow road. He cut around sharply at the first break in the queue, but oncoming traffic meant there was not enough time pass in the other lane, cutting back in whilst passing alongside me. If I had picked up speed it would have guaranteed a collision. Such a selfish prick. If I had caught up with him my bike might well have been thrown through the windshield. It would have felt good to put the farker out of work few days whilst his van was repaired. I felt so indignant that anyone would do this deliberately to a vulnerable road user. Are we just supposed to continue to take this abuse?



No, but don't be defeated either. Submit the data to DHL as well as the police as others have stated.



confusedcyclist said:


> It might be due to the recent arrival of my daughter, but I never thought I would feel like this. I'm seriously considering quitting night/winter cycle commuting. I'm not sure it's entirely rational... but this one section of my route which is pretty much unavoidable seems to be a black spot for dangerous and impatient drivers. There is an alternative off road route, which is OK and passable in the Spring through to early autumn... but as soon as the clocks switch it's too dark, not to mention boggy and rutted to pass safely.
> .... I feel I don't have an alternative.



There's always an alternative: my commute would normally take me up to the M62 past the White Rose Centre. One too many close passes and it's moved from a 10 mile to a 12 mile commute via Middleton and Tingley; quieter and much nicer to ride.

What's the route you're taking in/out of the city?


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

DCLane said:


> There's always an alternative: my commute would normally take me up to the M62 past the White Rose Centre. One too many close passes and it's moved from a 10 mile to a 12 mile commute via Middleton and Tingley; quieter and much nicer to ride.
> 
> What's the route you're taking in/out of the city?



Starting at Bradford Royal Infrim. ending in Gildersome, Leeds. I am currently riding via Manningham to Bradford city centre then on the cycle superhighway to Pudsey, toward Tong road via Roker Lane then up to Gildersome lane (near woodcock pub on whitehall road).

This off road section is via Sykes Wood from Tong Road which bypasses Back Ln. and Gildersome Ln. to positively peaceful Dale Ln. (questionably tresspass cycling on a bridleway, but another matter for another day) and mostly quiet roads to home.

Nearest sensible alternative route would take me via A650 (hell on earth) or part on A58, also unpleasant.

OR via NCN66, which I did entertain, but that would add another 4.5 miles or 25 minutes to an already lengthy commute, and I'm not sure the roads back through Cleckheaton, Gomersal and Birstall are any better. I know they are not the most pleasant to drive on! Although I have never had any reason to experiment out that way on the bike.


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## 400bhp (30 Jan 2019)

Pavement cycling for the shoot bit?

Car commute part way?

It's s shame you are made to consider dropping cycling because of the selfish acts of others.

[edit] had a quick look at Back Lane on google maps and straight away I can see why it's unpleasant. One of those urban trunk roads that have been built/restructured with no consideration for cyclists or pedestrians.


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## tom73 (30 Jan 2019)

@confusedcyclist sounds like you've had your fair share of planks in boxers on wheels and can believe it all. In my short time I've had a few inc twice having a range rover drive at me. I don't commute so can more or less ride at times and routes that are "safer". So don't have the daily everyone in a rush sod everyone else traffic. Well you can only hope some of your planks end up in custody when a certain cycling Custody Nurse is on duty. They may find themselves on the blunt end of a needle 

I understand your thinking i've been on the wrong end of a car crossing the road and ended up getting a bit smashed up. Like I said it's your choice only you can call it and when you've made it you will know if it's the right one.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Jan 2019)

@400bhp
I have resorted to cycling a portion of back lane on the pavement already. Not much luck on gildersome lane. It's too narrow in parts, overhanging shrubs and trees, and often pedestrians/joggers about.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

I feel sorry for you. Just had a look at your commute. Yeah it really sucks. No "good" options for you. just not nice. I am so lucky I have a towpath I can use. 
Genuine comment.... Would you consider moving somewhere more bike friendly? Perhaps seek a promotion somewhere more bike friendly? Not just for you but somewhere your kid can safely cycle too as they grow up! I don't know, maybe you were thinking about moving anyway? who knows. just a thought. Happiness and quality of life trumps all.


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## I like Skol (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> I feel sorry for you. Just had a look at your commute. Yeah it really sucks. No "good" options for you. just not nice. I am so lucky I have a towpath I can use.
> Genuine comment.... Would you consider moving somewhere more bike friendly? Perhaps seek a promotion somewhere more bike friendly? Not just for you but somewhere your kid can safely cycle too as they grow up! I don't know, maybe you were thinking about moving anyway? who knows. just a thought. Happiness and quality of life trumps all.


Not as bizarre a suggestion as it may sound.

A few years ago my wife started looking at properties in the 'posher' parts of south Manchester. One of the houses she really took a shine to was a do'er up'er that was in a great area and had a huge garden. I put a stop to it straight away! My reason, it was only about 1 mile from my place of work and that just wasn't going to be sufficient for a cycle commute. I told her to draw a circle about 8-12 miles around my work and start looking there...….

We stayed where we are, 10.5 miles by bike from my work


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## Kempstonian (30 Jan 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Not as bizarre a suggestion as it may sound.
> 
> A few years ago my wife started looking at properties in the 'posher' parts of south Manchester. One of the houses she really took a shine to was a do'er up'er that was in a great area and had a huge garden. I put a stop to it straight away! My reason, it was only about 1 mile from my place of work and that just wasn't going to be sufficient for a cycle commute. I told her to draw a circle about 8-12 miles around my work and start looking there...….
> 
> We stayed where we are, 10.5 miles by bike from my work


You could have gone 5 miles in the opposite direction, then turned round and come back!


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> You could have gone 5 miles in the opposite direction, then turned round and come back!


No one wants to live a <mile from their work.  I get it.


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## Kempstonian (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> No one wants to live a <mile from their work.  I get it.


I used to work from home. You can't get nearer than that!


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## Bazzer (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Yes, I have footage too. West yorkshire police have been rubbish lately at dealing with my reports, after initial success when I first got my camera. I'll not bother again. Reporting drivers doesn't correlate with a reduction of twunts in the road, sadly, therefore reporting seems futile to me.
> 
> I am definitely hoping to take the rest of the week off. Trouble is we only have one car and DW requires the use of it most days... hence the knee jerk reaction to looking into used cars.



Just on the issue of the footage, DPD were very receptive to footage I recently sent them. First contact was made through their web site. They asked for detail of what happened and asked for the footage to be sent to them. I am told (unverified) that DPD have what was called a "heat map" of drivers, which I believe is a record of complaints made drivers. Also that the driver in my particular case would be spoken to.
Of course, this may be BS by the company and simply their means of keeping good relations with the general public, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I took it at face value.
I also made a report to GMP, but they CBA.


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## DCLane (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Starting at Bradford Royal Infrim. ending in Gildersome, Leeds. I am currently riding via Manningham to Bradford city centre then on the cycle superhighway to Pudsey, toward Tong road via Roker Lane then up to Gildersome lane (near woodcock pub on whitehall road).
> 
> This off road section is via Sykes Wood from Tong Road which bypasses Back Ln. and Gildersome Ln. to positively peaceful Dale Ln. (questionably tresspass cycling on a bridleway, but another matter for another day) and mostly quiet roads to home.
> 
> ...



I can see your issues, but IMO the superhighway is a horrid route. Too many stop/start junctions where you're just hoping for the best.

To me round to the NCN66 would be easier, quieter and safer. I'd suggest coming off at the Mount Street point by the B6120 in Cleckheaton before the Tesco and cutting through to cross the A638 and up Balme Road/Cliffe Lane. That brings you out at Gomersal Public Hall. From there left and right onto Moor Lane to cross the A652 onto Nutter Lane by Oakwell Hall, which becomes Nova Lane. The only issue is a bit of the A650 if you use Fieldhead Lane.

I'm not sure how much further it is, probably not much if you're going via Pudsey, but it's an awful lot safer. Possibly quicker too as you're keeping going rather than having to stop a lot.


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## classic33 (30 Jan 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Possibly. I think I need to give this some real consideration. Not sure I fancy a 10 mile commute with knobbly tyres and getting regularly caked in mud!


Used to do an 181/2 commute into Leeds, then 250, over a four day weekend, split shifts on knobblies. On the roads, with the ability to cope with the colder weather or Off-Road if need be.

A bit more upright than a road bike, but easily doable.

The idiots will be out at any time of the day, not just the morning & evenings. Have a think before deciding to quit.


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## rogerzilla (30 Jan 2019)

I'm more comfortable mixing it with regular commuters than with late-night boy racers or weekend pensioners. The regular commuters are driving a familiar route and not suffering from cognitive overload; also, the traffic is too heavy for anyone to show off their alleged driving skills.


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## beany_bot (30 Jan 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> I'm more comfortable mixing it with regular commuters than with late-night boy racers or weekend pensioners. The regular commuters are driving a familiar route and not suffering from cognitive overload; also, the traffic is too heavy for anyone to show off their alleged driving skills.


Hmm i find commuters on the way to work fine, on the way home though... people are DESPERATE to get home, way worse than weekend or late night. Especially on Fridays. I've had more close passes on Friday afternoons than any other time by far.


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## Slick (30 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> Hmm i find commuters on the way to work fine, on the way home though... people are DESPERATE to get home, way worse than weekend or late night. Especially on Fridays. I've had more close passes on Friday afternoons than any other time by far.


I feel the same although at 6am I've always felt it was a different type of driver than you get on the school run round here anyway. Early evening run home your slap bang in the middle of all the idiot's at their best.


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## classic33 (30 Jan 2019)

Slick said:


> I feel the same although at 6am I've always felt it was a different type of driver than you get on the school run round here anyway. Early evening run home your slap bang in the middle of all the idiot's at their best.


Used to go to Leeds along the A58. At the top of the hill near Wyke, with school run in full swing, being the worst part. After that it was near the city centre, having come off the A58, two roundabouts to get round with a load of frustrated drivers. Queues often back to Ringways and along comes a cyclist passing them when they were "very nearly" there.


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## 12boy (31 Jan 2019)

Nothing scares me more than a young lady with a giant SUV full of screaming kids who is talking on a cell phone. Even scarier than young oil field guys with a 3/4 ton turbo diesel. Get a1000 lumen light or two and studded tires for ice and big ones for the mud but with fenders. Those hairy roads are what mtn bikes and fatbikes are for.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2019)

Funny thing is that here White Van Man is rarely if ever a problem, nor young guys in souped up hatchbacks. Both tend to give me plenty of room.

The ones to watch here are older men in Mercedes saloons and women under 30 driving anything, but especially new 'minis', oddly. I wonder if it varies according to country and culture.

[Edited due to apparent inability to type this morning]


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## beany_bot (31 Jan 2019)

I find the closer I get to the posh areas the worse the behaviour gets. Typically "mums" driving big Audis and range rovers are the worst for both awareness and giving space.


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## DCBassman (31 Jan 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> older men in Mercedes saloons


Glad I have an estate, then!


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2019)

DCBassman said:


> Glad I have an estate, then!



That's the very strange thing about it: it's pretty much only saloons...


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## DCBassman (31 Jan 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's the very strange thing about it: it's pretty much only saloons...


Here anyhow, estates are very much utility vehicles (mine is, and looks it, very scabby for an E Class...), and drivers seem to be a bit more road aware. It's the country folk in the shiny SUVs you have to watch...


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## KneesUp (31 Jan 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Not as bizarre a suggestion as it may sound.
> 
> A few years ago my wife started looking at properties in the 'posher' parts of south Manchester. One of the houses she really took a shine to was a do'er up'er that was in a great area and had a huge garden. I put a stop to it straight away! My reason, it was only about 1 mile from my place of work and that just wasn't going to be sufficient for a cycle commute. I told her to draw a circle about 8-12 miles around my work and start looking there...….
> 
> We stayed where we are, 10.5 miles by bike from my work



Can I guess where the house was and where you work?


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## mjr (31 Jan 2019)

DCBassman said:


> Here anyhow, estates are very much utility vehicles (mine is, and looks it, very scabby for an E Class...), and drivers seem to be a bit more road aware. It's the country folk in the shiny SUVs you have to watch...


That's funny. Over here, the shiny SUVs clean tend to be the farm managers who mostly seem to treat cyclists like horses and give plenty of room. The ones to watch out for in the small lanes tend to be the smoky old diesels (including estates - sorry) with people trying to do two other things while they drive. On the bigger roads, it's the stereotypical hot hatches who seem to fancy themselves as rally drivers right up until they bounce themselves backwards into a hedge if they're lucky or upside down into a fen drain if they're not.


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## DCBassman (31 Jan 2019)

Here on Dartmoor, the farmers seem pretty good all round, whatever their steed...Agree re the hot hatches, although here and in Cornwall, going into any kind of 'hedge' is likely to be very traumatic, as they tend to have cores of rock...


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2019)

beany_bot said:


> I find the closer I get to the posh areas the worse the behaviour gets. Typically "mums" driving big Audis and range rovers are the worst for both awareness and giving space.



I remember a traffic engineer saying there was evidence of a correlation between the price of a car and the drivers poor driving, incidences of speeding or crossing red lights et c. The theory was that people begin to feel more entitled then they drive a flash car and will be less bothered about rules -indeed they tended to see them as an annoyance.


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## DCBassman (31 Jan 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I remember a traffic engineer saying there was evidence of a correlation between the price of a car and the drivers poor driving, incidences of speeding or crossing red lights et c. The theory was that people begin to feel more entitled then they drive a flash car and will be less bothered about rules -indeed they tended to see them as an annoyance.



Hence the lack of indicator use often seen...only the 'little people' use indicators...


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## confusedcyclist (31 Jan 2019)

Back on the horse this morning, almost immediately an twunt in a 5 series saloon (you see!!!) pulled out of a junction with frozen side windows nearly clobbering me. On the bright side another opportunity to practice shouting my french._ Le wenker_.

You'll all be pleased to hear I have been looking at high output lighting rather than cars, for the off-road section. I'm pretty sure I have a chinese cree light that I always considered too bright for the road stashed somewhere in garage, I'll have to see if that's still working. But I'll be giving the route a cautious go with my rather narrow road beam (360 lumen) this evening.

I've already thrown out the idea of spending £6000 on a car, I just cant face the depreciation costs. I might consider up to £2500 on a 5 year old car, because they don't depreciate much and less risk of being totally decrepit... but it might not come to that come spring, I'll be blissfully riding on the off-road route.

@DCLane I don't mind the CSH that much, some junctions as you say are a pain, with cars pulling in and out haphazardly, but I ride the road at some points to avoid that, particularly before the thornbury bit.

Can you recommend a route to NCN66 from the BRI? Obvious routes are very busy with all the traffic heading to the M606, probably more hazardous than my stretch through Manningham to the city centre.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Jan 2019)

We got my college tutor one of these. They are surprisingly loud.


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## I like Skol (31 Jan 2019)

KneesUp said:


> Can I guess where the house was and where you work?


You can, but answers on a postcard only please. I don't want my groupies catching up with me again, I'm a married man!


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## Moodyman (31 Jan 2019)

OP, I do a similar route to you in reverse. If memory serves me right, I work near your home and you to mine. 

Been commuting this for 12 years and never thought about giving up. But, I think you will benefit from tweaking your routes. 

Happy to meet up at BRI to introduce you to quiet routes that get you onto NCN66 or the Cycle Superhighway. Send me a PM and we'll sort something out.


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## cyberknight (31 Jan 2019)

quit for the last 2 weeks
night shift 
sub zero 
3 hours overtime most nights
erm i want to sleep and not fall off


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## skudupnorth (31 Jan 2019)

I can understand you being put off from bad drivers, I had the same issue a couple of years ago and split the commute for a while with both driving and cycling. After a while of getting fed up with being stuck in my lovely tin box during the daily gridlock, I returned refreshed to cycle commuting and have not stopped since.
As for cheap motoring, I bought my 1994 Skoda Favorit estate a couple of years back for just under £500 ! Cracking car which has actually gone up in value due to the rarity and sudden coolness ! Luckily I know the cars well and any maintenance is second nature to me so garage bills do not exist.... mind you I still haven’t required those skills other than do the yearly servicing. 
This is my old girl earning her keep to lug bike and camping gear to Lincolnshire for a 200k Audax


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## cyberknight (1 Feb 2019)

skudupnorth said:


> View attachment 449986
> I can understand you being put off from bad drivers, I had the same issue a couple of years ago and split the commute for a while with both driving and cycling. After a while of getting fed up with being stuck in my lovely tin box during the daily gridlock, I returned refreshed to cycle commuting and have not stopped since.
> As for cheap motoring, I bought my 1994 Skoda Favorit estate a couple of years back for just under £500 ! Cracking car which has actually gone up in value due to the rarity and sudden coolness ! Luckily I know the cars well and any maintenance is second nature to me so garage bills do not exist.... mind you I still haven’t required those skills other than do the yearly servicing.
> This is my old girl earning her keep to lug bike and camping gear to Lincolnshire for a 200k Audax


My wife has given up driving after her stroke so now I have a car loan for a car that hardly gets used.Could I give it up? I had thought about it but as the wife and son both have regular hospital appointments and in the past I have had to take them to a&e it's worth keeping.


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## skudupnorth (1 Feb 2019)

cyberknight said:


> My wife has given up driving after her stroke so now I have a car loan for a car that hardly gets used.Could I give it up? I had thought about it but as the wife and son both have regular hospital appointments and in the past I have had to take them to a&e it's worth keeping.


Sadly cars are still required even for us cyclists but I won’t let bad drivers stop me cycling. Even when I was ill last year, my main focus was to ride as soon as possible which annoyed my good lady but it was something to aim for and thankfully I can still do.


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## mjr (1 Feb 2019)

skudupnorth said:


> Sadly cars are still required even for us cyclists


No, they're not. About half the households in the local town have no access to a car. Cars are just very useful for some things. More things than they ought to be IMO because our government is inconsistent about encouraging cycling.


> but I won’t let bad drivers stop me cycling. Even when I was ill last year, my main focus was to ride as soon as possible which annoyed my good lady but it was something to aim for and thankfully I can still do.


Well done!


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## Andy in Germany (1 Feb 2019)

skudupnorth said:


> Sadly cars are still required even for us cyclists but I won’t let bad drivers stop me cycling. Even when I was ill last year, my main focus was to ride as soon as possible which annoyed my good lady but it was something to aim for and thankfully I can still do.



I'm very glad I live in a place where this isn't the case, partly through availability of public transport, and partly because we have a network of traffic free or less used roads where it is safe to cycle.

It doesn't stop people telling me that it's impossible to do what I do though, even after 14 years...


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## skudupnorth (1 Feb 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm very glad I live in a place where this isn't the case, partly through availability of public transport, and partly because we have a network of traffic free or less used roads where it is safe to cycle.
> 
> It doesn't stop people telling me that it's impossible to do what I do though, even after 14 years...


I've shocked everyone this week at work by continuing to cycle through all the snow and ice. Commuting to work in a car does not happen with me ! As for owning a car, I enjoy old cars and have two 24 year old motors to play with at weekend or to herd the kids about for their various activities. They cost very little to buy,cheap to run and are easy to fix if required.


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## DCBassman (1 Feb 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> It doesn't stop people telling me that it's impossible to do what I do though, even after 14 years...


What part of "I'm doing what yhou say is impossible" don't they grasp? The blindness of the automobile-obsessed...


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## confusedcyclist (1 Feb 2019)

DCBassman said:


> What part of "I'm doing what yhou say is impossible" don't they grasp? The blindness of the automobile-obsessed...


There are many places where to have a reasonable standard of living it presumes car ownership, I know because I lived in such a place, and it was lonely at times as a child without a means to get about. It does not surprise me that such attitudes exist, much to the detriment of the local market/high street. The existence of the internal combustion engine is the primary reason out of town shopping centres exist. I'm 99% certain that the sub-urban settlement I reside in only expanded rapidly since the 50s onward as a direct result of car ownership and the government's policy to support it and expand road networks. It would not make sense otherwise for developers to build houses without access to other forms of transport to major economic centres from rural or suburban dwellings. Prior to the internal combustion engines, there were some isolated dwellings and farmers around here and not much else. Of course, a hardy few would walk or ride the distances on dirt tracks, but they were the exception. Most lived within walking distance of the amenities and jobs they needed.

It's entirely possible to live without a car, but that takes agency and careful thought and planning about where one lives, works and shops, as well as an acceptance that your are a secondary road user. Some are lucky to live in places purposely designed for it, others bought a house without ever thinking about it. As a nation, we have bought into the idea of car ownership for all, and it's very hard to go back, now everyone is spread out in the suburbs and miles away from the amenities they use, not to mention gone soft on walking and cycling distances of >1-3 miles, taking away the motor engine leaves everyone in limbo. Anyone who challenges the dominance of motor cars is fair game for abuse and/or injury, hence the trivial sentencing for slaughterers of cyclists and outpourings of hatred of non-helmeted cyclists in the press.

Whilst I am prepared to cycle a long distance to get to work, the shops etc, I am not prepared to be subjected to dangerous driving, sadly, the police and government don't take such things seriously, on account of the fact that cycling isn't a _real _transport method, therefore I have no real rights.


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## classic33 (1 Feb 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm very glad I live in a place where this isn't the case, partly through availability of public transport, and partly because we have a network of traffic free or less used roads where it is safe to cycle.
> *
> It doesn't stop people telling me that it's impossible to do what I do though, even after 14 years...*


I just get told I'm nuts for even wanting to try. When I tell them it's been done, well...


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## confusedcyclist (1 Feb 2019)

Here's the nobber in van. Posted on twittwat.

View: https://twitter.com/RutGrr/status/1091474285246533632


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## cyberknight (2 Feb 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm very glad I live in a place where this isn't the case, partly through availability of public transport, and partly because we have a network of traffic free or less used roads where it is safe to cycle.
> 
> It doesn't stop people telling me that it's impossible to do what I do though, even after 14 years...


Unfortunately where i work there are no public transport links within a mile and even then that would mean catching 2 buses doubling the distance and walking either end assuming i could plan my shifts as we have a " work till done plan " company mentality .


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## tyred (2 Feb 2019)

skudupnorth said:


> View attachment 449986
> I can understand you being put off from bad drivers, I had the same issue a couple of years ago and split the commute for a while with both driving and cycling. After a while of getting fed up with being stuck in my lovely tin box during the daily gridlock, I returned refreshed to cycle commuting and have not stopped since.
> As for cheap motoring, I bought my 1994 Skoda Favorit estate a couple of years back for just under £500 ! Cracking car which has actually gone up in value due to the rarity and sudden coolness ! Luckily I know the cars well and any maintenance is second nature to me so garage bills do not exist.... mind you I still haven’t required those skills other than do the yearly servicing.
> This is my old girl earning her keep to lug bike and camping gear to Lincolnshire for a 200k Audax



I love the Skoda


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## skudupnorth (2 Feb 2019)

tyred said:


> I love the Skoda


Thanks, been driving the brand for 29 years and will continue to. Great cars and so reliable


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## confusedcyclist (4 Feb 2019)

Well I managed to ride the off road route today on the commute back. Its just too boggy to ride after wet weather on my gravel bike. Nearly came off a few times on slow climbs where i struggled to get traction. Had to push a bit too. As a result my bike and my boots were caked in mud too. Its going to increase maintenance work and cleaning exponentially if I keep doing that. The dark was manageable though which means if the ground gets frozen or dry I'll happily ride it after dark. My 350 lumen light was plenty bright. but looks like it's not a reliable route year round sadly.


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## classic33 (4 Feb 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Well I managed to ride the off road route today on the commute back. Its just too boggy to ride after wet weather on my gravel bike. Nearly came off a few times on slow climbs where i struggled to get traction. Had to push a bit too. As a result my bike and my boots were caked in mud too. Its going to increase maintenance work and cleaning exponentially if I keep doing that. The dark was manageable though which means if the ground gets frozen or dry I'll happily ride it after dark. My 350 lumen light was plenty bright. but looks like it's not a reliable route year round sadly.


Can you mix the routes together, keeping your time on the bad parts to a minimum?


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## Andy in Germany (5 Feb 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Well I managed to ride the off road route today on the commute back. Its just too boggy to ride after wet weather on my gravel bike. Nearly came off a few times on slow climbs where i struggled to get traction. Had to push a bit too. As a result my bike and my boots were caked in mud too. Its going to increase maintenance work and cleaning exponentially if I keep doing that. The dark was manageable though which means if the ground gets frozen or dry I'll happily ride it after dark. My 350 lumen light was plenty bright. but looks like it's not a reliable route year round sadly.



I feel your frustration there. I have a good enough ride into Stuttgart, but it's steep in places, and those places aren't gritted in winter so I'm stuffed. On Weekend shifts I'll ride on the roads (Germany is much quieter at weekends) and more importantly I can take the tram back up the hill with bike: on weekdays bikes are banned [s=]off-peak[/s] at peak times.


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## classic33 (5 Feb 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I feel your frustration there. I have a good enough ride into Stuttgart, but it's steep in places, and those places aren't gritted in winter so I'm stuffed. On Weekend shifts I'll ride on the roads (Germany is much quieter at weekends) and more importantly I can take the tram back up the hill with bike: *on weekdays bikes are banned off-peak.*


Allowed in peak periods?


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## Andy in Germany (5 Feb 2019)

classic33 said:


> Allowed in peak periods?



I put that in deliberately to see if you would notice. No, really. Ahem.


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## RichK (21 Feb 2019)

I came close to quitting 18 months ago after a driver & three of his 'mates' tried to attack me - fortunately they weren't the brightest of sparks & stopped at a point I could ride off (got put on anti-anxiety meds which I'm still taking). However, I bought myself a bar mounted camera which made enough difference to get me out the front door. I won't commute without it now (have a rear mounted one too now). It wouldnt stop it happening again, but at least I might have some recourse afterwards. I haven't done any "proper" cycling since. I just can't get myself through the front door when it's "just for fun" rather than a necessary journey.


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## CXRAndy (10 Mar 2019)

Get an electric car, 95% of all vehicle journeys in the world are less than 30 miles, so an electric car is perfect. Recharge over night or work-if they have facility, alot of firms are installing chargers. 

We have a Nissan leaf and in 1 year we've put 18000 miles on it with lots of local journeys. It costs £3.20 for 150 miles of range- no internal combustion engine can get anywhere near that. We are selling all our petrol vehicles now and getting a Hyundai Kona electric EV this winter.

Comparison for you, We spent £380 on electric to go 18,000 miles

A internal combustion engine, that would of cost £3,300!! 
assuming 30mpg ave, Which is an ave town journey mpg.


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## confusedcyclist (12 Mar 2019)

Just to update, DPD eventually responded to my e-mail, they promised to have stern words with the depot responsible for the driver. There was talk of retraining, so hopefully our offender will think twice before doing it again.

And totally unrelated to my incident, due to neck pains, I have been resorting to getting two buses to work instead of cycling. It takes slightly longer than my 50 minute ride, its 1 hour 10, including a 15 minute walk. It's costing me £4.80 a day (weekly pass) to use two different bus services to travel 10 miles which is unpalatable when riding costs next to nothing. Well, only if you ignore the cost of the bike and servicing/parts, which I guess isn't entirely fair.

Overall, it's not bad, I don't mind the reading time, but I don't like being subject to the whims of cancellations/delays and feel the pounds piling on now my calorie expenditure has plummeted. Now the neck is on the mend, I have decided to use C2W to buy a 6 speed bompton. That way I can ride into work, and if conditions on the road deteriorate, I can hop on the bus without a second thought.


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## Kempstonian (12 Mar 2019)

The clocks go forward in just over a couple of weeks. Might help the journey home.


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## mustang1 (12 Mar 2019)

beany_bot said:


> I got my car for £700 a few years ago (2004 Hyundai Santa Fe). Flies through MOT's, its mint. Just got it for the odd occasion I need to haul stuff around. Shes a V6!!  Thirsty bugger but because I use it so infrequently it doesn't cost me much or impact the environment much. Annoys me greatly my VED tax is so much (because of engine size). But I hardly use it. Really should be done on mileage.



This is why Lambos and the like pollute so little because they are not driven much. Someone will crack a joke about driving it 1000 miles is like driving a normal car 10000 miles or some such.


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## KneesUp (12 Mar 2019)

mustang1 said:


> This is why Lambos and the like pollute so little because they are not driven much. Someone will crack a joke about driving it 1000 miles is like driving a normal car 10000 miles or some such.


The pollution comes more from making the thing in the first place - which is why Land Rovers are considered relatively 'clean' because a large proportion of them are still working. That pollution has been released, whether the car is used or not.


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## confusedcyclist (13 Mar 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> The clocks go forward in just over a couple of weeks. Might help the journey home.


Indeed, I did resume cycling again after the incident, the evening have been much lighter, providing I left the office promptly.


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## confusedcyclist (13 Mar 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Get an electric car, 95% of all vehicle journeys in the world are less than 30 miles, so an electric car is perfect. Recharge over night or work-if they have facility, alot of firms are installing chargers.
> 
> We have a Nissan leaf and in 1 year we've put 18000 miles on it with lots of local journeys. It costs £3.20 for 150 miles of range- no internal combustion engine can get anywhere near that. We are selling all our petrol vehicles now and getting a Hyundai Kona electric EV this winter.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your thoughts. I had looked in to EVs a while back. Running costs are certainly lower, and I expect maintenance and repairs to be so too, given they have less moving parts. However the higher initial purchase price would take me some time to break even. Particularly as my mileage would be much lower than yours at 2-3k a year. Also, a high portion of my journeys are way over 30 miles, not because I drive more than you, but because I only use my car for long distance inter-city travel, not to nip to the shops/work. Internal combustion engines always win with long distance driving because there is better infrastructure for rapid liquid refueling. I'm also not particularly sold on the sustainability of e-vehicles, considering they are grid powered and dependant on finite rare earth metals like cobalt (blood diamond of batteries) and lithium.

If there was a big shift to electric cars, I don't think it's fair to expect prices stay as low as they are now, electricity prices are only going up as nuclear and coal plants are phased out, a problem that is further compounded by a serious lack large scale of storage for intermittent renewables (the technology doesn't exist). Grid electrical supply may well become intermittent, if not as bad as that, we will start to be charged way higher at peak times. It's bad news if you need to be somewhere at a specific time and place and can't get their on foot/bike/public transport.

Most people aren't ready to think about this stuff yet, but our chickens will come home to roost sooner or later. Check out the government's track record with long term energy planning, it's really worrying stuff. We will increasingly become dependent on surplus electricity from the EU (which can't always be relied upon) which bumps up prices further. Increased grid electricity demand from transport sector will also have major implication for household energy use prices too. Prices would certainly have to increase to fund private investment in electrical infrastructure to catch up. I don't think free at point of use charging points will scale up or remain free long term. It's a subsidy to the rich (generally only well to do can afford EVs) and once people cotton on, they will protest against the unfair nature free energy topping points. They were only ever a means to lure early adopters.

EVs are interesting tech, and they might make sense for some people now, but really we need a sustainable transport system, one that prioritises walking, cycling and public transport, probably in that order.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (13 Mar 2019)

Cars don't need to be expensive. In fact that's half the problem they are so damn cheap - but are especially so if you do limited mileage so aren't putting 20% of your income into the petrol tank to sit and queue your way to work every day

2002 Toyota Yaris
Bought 18 months ago for £500. Clean with just a bit of a dented rear valance, looks like it's had a Tesco's knock
Frugal 16v 1 litre does a billion miles to the gallon* but can still keep motorway speeds for a longer drive
£19 work to get through the MOT
About £85 spent on a new battery and new exhaust (eBay, fitted DIY)
Needs a new balljoint - about £12 the pair (plus I anticipate a grazed knuckle and a couple of hours swearing at a balljoint splitter)

I don't do mega miles but weekends into the peak district for walks, a day trip to Snowdon and a holiday in the lakes, plus surprising room with the seats down for a tiny car, shoehorned 4 adult bikes in there (no passengers of course)

You don't have to spend a lot if you don't mind getting spanners out now and again and not as scary to fix as people think

_*slight exaggeration_

I actually prefer to spend around that mark. Less risk if you stick to "uncool" cars and in my experience, avoid Fords and Vauxhalls at that price. Spend a bit more like £1500 and a couple of £250 garage bills on more complex stuff and then you start getting into the "spent too much to scrap it, better spend more" if you get a bad 'un


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## classic33 (20 Mar 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Indeed, I did resume cycling again after the incident,* the evening have been much lighter, providing I left the office promptly.*


I've heard of "night falling", but didn't realise it was that quick near you.


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