# The definition of squishy ...



## lulubel (2 Dec 2012)

... or why I punctured with the Racing Ralphs.

According to my new SKS Airchecker, the definition of squishy is 8 front and 12 rear.

(Yes, I had it set on PSI. No, it isn't faulty - I checked the Surly's tyres as well and they were about 70, as expected.)

Seeing that has made me a little nervous, so I may increase them to 10 and 15 before my ride tomorrow, just to be on the safe side.


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## Cubist (2 Dec 2012)

Tubeless. You know it makes sense. With no tubes your thumbs can be as inaccurate as you like.


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## lulubel (3 Dec 2012)

Cubist said:


> Tubeless. You know it makes sense. With no tubes your thumbs can be as inaccurate as you like.


 
I've got my Airchecker now, and I'm having great fun playing with my new toy!

In any case, if I can get away with running them that soft with tubes, I'm not sure that tubeless is worth the bother of setting it up.


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## al-fresco (3 Dec 2012)

I'm hoping to go tubeless in 2013. Even at 35 psi front and rear I get way too many punctures on the hawthorn covered tracks around here. The other day I had 5 - FIVE! - on one ride. Tubeless sounds good to me!


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## Cubist (3 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> I've got my Airchecker now, and I'm having great fun playing with my new toy!
> 
> In any case, if I can get away with running them that soft with tubes, I'm not sure that tubeless is worth the bother of setting it up.


Indeed. A featherlite frame works wonders.

And expect your bike's pretty light too....

Add in some sympathetic line choice and you can avoid pinchflats.

Cubester and I are Clydesdale Class, and on his Minion-shod hooligan Ragley Cubester tends to batter his way along a trail. We have a snakebite ratio of about 25 to 1.


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## screenman (3 Dec 2012)

Lulubel, what advantages do you see in not going tubeless? apart from cost I cannot see any at all.


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## lulubel (3 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> Lulubel, what advantages do you see in not going tubeless? apart from cost I cannot see any at all.


 
I don't have to get the special edging stuff and valves, and the messy sealant stuff that you have to put in. I don't have to put it in the tyres in the dining-room (which is the only place I have to work on bikes) and make a mess, and have my OH moan at me for making a mess.

If I don't need to do it, what's the point?

Besides, what happens if you get a relatively small tear in a tyre if you're running tubeless? When you're running tubes, you can just use a tyre boot and ride home carefully.


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## lulubel (3 Dec 2012)

Cubist said:


> Indeed. A featherlite frame works wonders.
> 
> And expect your bike's pretty light too....
> 
> ...


 
I am pretty skinny. I seem to have stabilised my weight, though, and I'm not losing any more, which is good.

And I suppose I do pick sympathetic lines when it gets bumpy. Maybe all the years of road riding have taught me to "be gentle" with the bike without having to think about it.

After my shock at seeing how soft they were, I put an extra 3psi in each this morning, and it was horrible. By comparison, I felt like I had no control at all over loose rock, so it came out again pretty quick. I'm going to stick with "squishy" (8 and 12) and see how it goes. For the amount of control it gives me, it will be worth going tubeless if I do start getting pinch flats at any point.


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## screenman (3 Dec 2012)

As you say what is the point, well one I can think of is the ability to run at lower pressures without getting snake bite punctures.

You would treat a small tear the same regardless of tubeless or not.

Please do not think I am having a go at you on this, I am just the sort of person that likes to really get where the other is coming from with their views.


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## Cubist (3 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> I am pretty skinny. I seem to have stabilised my weight, though, and I'm not losing any more, which is good.
> 
> And I suppose I do pick sympathetic lines when it gets bumpy. Maybe all the years of road riding have taught me to "be gentle" with the bike without having to think about it.
> 
> After my shock at seeing how soft they were, I put an extra 3psi in each this morning, and it was horrible. By comparison, I felt like I had no control at all over loose rock, so it came out again pretty quick. I'm going to stick with "squishy" (8 and 12) and see how it goes. For the amount of control it gives me, it will be worth going tubeless if I do start getting pinch flats at any point.


 

There's the most relevant part, seeing how you get on. It may be that your build and line choice mean that you will avoid them, and if experience suggests you need to go tubeless, well, it may be the catalyst you need to make your mind up. 



screenman said:


> As you say what is the point, well one I can think of is the ability to run at lower pressures without getting snake bite punctures.
> 
> You would treat a small tear the same regardless of tubeless or not.
> 
> Please do not think I am having a go at you on this, I am just the sort of person that likes to really get where the other is coming from with their views.


Lulubel is a pragmatist. She loves to research and experiment, and is always willing to explore advice. I'm not sure you look like you're having a go. Tubeless makes sense for hurling my 16 stone carcass mincing down Pennine descents on my bouncer, but a petite Lulubel on rocky hardpack may have a different set of factors in play.


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## lulubel (3 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> As you say what is the point, well one I can think of is the ability to run at lower pressures without getting snake bite punctures.


 
If I run them any softer, I'll be on the rims 

Cubist got it right. I'm always willing to experiment and try new things, if I can see how they might benefit me. I'm also a great believer in, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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## screenman (3 Dec 2012)

My Daughter in law weighs about 8 stone maybe less she is currently the UK national vets MTB Champion, she also was the person in the family first to start using tubeless and felt they were certainly a benefit. So I am not just coming from the point of a 12 stone lump of an age that I cannot remember what colour hair I had.

I used to be a believer of the if it ain't broke brigade but got fed up with only 5 gears.


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## lulubel (3 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> My Daughter in law weighs about 8 stone maybe less she is currently the UK national vets MTB Champion, she also was the person in the family first to start using tubeless and felt they were certainly a benefit. So I am not just coming from the point of a 12 stone lump of an age that I cannot remember what colour hair I had.
> 
> I used to be a believer of the if it ain't broke brigade but got fed up with only 5 gears.


 
There's nothing wrong with 5 gears, as long as the lowest one is low enough and the highest one is high enough  (Although I have to admit the gaps between them would be huge if you tried to achieve the gear range I've got on my road bike with its triple chainset and mega range cassette.)

I appreciate your point about your daughter in law (although I weigh much closer to 7 stone than 8) but the fact that she's a UK champion suggests that she pushes her bikes a lot harder than I ever will, hence the greater demands placed on her tyres.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Dec 2012)

Cubist said:


> Tubeless. You know it makes sense. With no tubes your thumbs can be as inaccurate as you like.


It does make sense. But what happens if using non-tubeless rims and sealant and you want to swap tyres?


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## RecordAceFromNew (3 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> It does make sense. But what happens if using non-tubeless rims and sealant and you want to swap tyres?


 
Unlike tubulars, and unless you are allergic to sticky mess, there is nothing to stop you installing any clincher (and indeed installing any tube after pulling off the tubeless valve) on any (i.e. oem, taped or ghetto) tubeless rim.


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## Cubist (3 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> It does make sense. But what happens if using non-tubeless rims and sealant and you want to swap tyres?





RecordAceFromNew said:


> Unlike tubulars, and unless you are allergic to sticky mess, there is nothing to stop you installing any clincher (and indeed installing any tube after pulling off the tubeless valve) on any (i.e. oem, taped or ghetto) tubeless rim.


This.

You simply take the tyre off, recycle the jizz or bin it and put new tyres on.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Dec 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Unlike tubulars, and unless you are *allergic to sticky mess*, there is nothing to stop you installing any clincher (and indeed installing any tube after pulling off the tubeless valve) on any (i.e. oem, taped or ghetto) tubeless rim.


two of my three lbs refuse to do it.


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## Cubist (3 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> two of my three lbs refuse to do it.


I have an old washing up bowl in the garage that I drain fork oil into when I service them, and added two tyres worth of sealant in when I swapped tyres over last month. The latex has formed an interesting lava lamp style series of clumps now it's suspended in the oil!


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## lulubel (4 Dec 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Unlike tubulars, and unless *you are allergic to sticky mess*, there is nothing to stop you installing any clincher (and indeed installing any tube after pulling off the tubeless valve) on any (i.e. oem, taped or ghetto) tubeless rim.


 
Very much so in my case. Hence my reluctance to go tubeless unless I have no other option other than running hard tyres.


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## screenman (4 Dec 2012)

Now we are getting the real answer to my earlier question.

GC are you saying LBS are not embracing technology, they are seriously stuck in the past.


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## lulubel (4 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> Now we are getting the real answer to my earlier question.


 
Are you talking to me? Yesterday, I said this:



lulubel said:


> I don't have to get the special edging stuff and valves, and the *messy sealant stuff that you have to put in*. I don't have to put it in the tyres in the dining-room (which is the only place I have to work on bikes) and *make a mess*, and have *my OH moan at me for making a mess*.


 
I'm not sure how you missed the part where I said I don't like mess


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> Now we are getting the real answer to my earlier question.
> 
> GC are you saying LBS are not embracing technology, they are seriously stuck in the past.


I'm saying two from the three, of my local LBS's that are mtb centric, will politely direct a sealant filled wheel bearer to the door marked exit. Conversationally I was told that it makes such a mess and takes so long to clean up, and so much faffage sealing beads etc., etc., that it renders the work uneconomic. This seems to be borne out by similar discussions in other virtual places. Does this equate to a charge of failing to embrace technology? Not sure, one of them is pretty cutting edge in terms of what they sell.

As "I like swapping tyres me", but I'm no fan of liquid latex, it has quite put me off going tubeless.


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## screenman (4 Dec 2012)

Well I doubt any pro riders are on tubes or in fact many top rate amateurs for that matter, so I would say the shops are unskilled and out of touch. Maybe they need better training.

In my trade we have some companies that sell quality tools, none of the sales people know how to use them though.

Although I have been on tubeless for a good while I am yet to discover the messy part you guys talk about.


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## screenman (4 Dec 2012)

People as long as you come on here and ask for advice or any question for that matter you may get answers and advice you do not want, sorry if mine fits in that bracket. I just get passionate about something when I find it works and that enthusiasm is hard to contain.

I must add that for 40 years I enjoyed riding and racing bikes before going tubeless so I know you can have fun either way. Keep riding and keep smiling.


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## lulubel (4 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> People as long as you come on here and ask for advice or any question for that matter you may get answers and advice you do not want, sorry if mine fits in that bracket. I just get passionate about something when I find it works and that enthusiasm is hard to contain.
> 
> I must add that for 40 years I enjoyed riding and racing bikes before going tubeless so I know you can have fun either way. Keep riding and keep smiling.


 
Can you make it clear if you're addressing your comments to me? (Since I started the thread, I assume you are.)

On the assumption that you are talking to me, please note (re: "asking for advice") that nowhere in my OP did I ask for advice on any aspect of tyres, tubes or pressures - or anything else for that matter. All the advice I have been given has been unsolicited. I don't mind a bit of unsolicited advice because it can sometimes open my eyes to possibilities that I wasn't aware of before, but continuing to push the same thing when the person you're talking to has made it clear that they've made other choices and why they've made them can get really irritating after a while.

Treat that as a piece of unsolicited advice


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## screenman (4 Dec 2012)

I promise I will not answer one of your posts again, how is that


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## Cubist (4 Dec 2012)

Actually, I started the thing about tubeless.

I don't see the messy part of it as a problem, as I was able to catch all that came out of my tyres with a bucket and a rag last time I swapped them.

Shops that refuse to work with sealant filled tyres won't mind if I exercise my rights as a consumer and go elsewhere.

Screenman, shall we go and have our own "tubeless fanboi" thread elsewhere?


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## Cubist (4 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> I promise I will not answer one of your posts again, how is that


Now then children.

Lu, lighten up.

Screenman, recognise a stubborn fiercely proudly independent streak when you see one!


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## lulubel (4 Dec 2012)

screenman said:


> I promise I will not answer one of your posts again, how is that


 
Sorry, my best efforts to put that nicely obviously didn't work. Damn internet forums!

Seriously, I do appreciate what you guys have to say. You just have to understand that once a girl's made her mind up, no amount of sensible reasoning is going to make her change it.

Next time, try chocolate


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## Cubist (4 Dec 2012)

I think we all need to thrash it out over a beer. How many spare rooms have you got Lu?


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## lulubel (4 Dec 2012)

Not enough, unfortunately. Even my family have to stay somewhere else if they want to visit, which sucks a bit. We had to make a choice between a lovely house with spare bedrooms and a swimming pool or eating.

We chose eating


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## Motozulu (6 Dec 2012)

Lulu I thought I was misreading when I saw the '8 front and 12 rear'!!

I dare'nt run anything less than 26 front and 30 rear. However I must qualify this statement by admitting I am a fat get!


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## lulubel (6 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Lulu I thought I was misreading when I saw the '8 front and 12 rear'!!


 
I thought I was misreading the pressure gauge when I saw it! (That's why I checked the pressures on the Surly as well, to make sure it was working - and I was using it correctly.)


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## Motozulu (6 Dec 2012)

Skinny sod!

*is jealous*


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## lulubel (6 Dec 2012)

But I don't drink beer.

You can't have it all ways


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## ufkacbln (6 Dec 2012)

The real definition of squishy is standing on a large slug in your bare feet and feeling the resultant mess squidging between your toes!


Now isn't that more interesting than tyres?


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## Motozulu (7 Dec 2012)

You know me too well Lulu!  I was over 14 stone when I started seriously getting into the biking this summer - I'm now hovering around 12st 9, good going for a 50 year old who likes a bevvy. I reckon I won't lose much more though as I have hammered it this summer and still am - hence the need for a lighter new bike in Feb. I think a lighter, better climber will encourage me even more and help to continue getting fitter. Off up the Chase now .


then out for a pint after with Mrs Zulu


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