# chiropractor or osteopath?



## Crackle (22 Aug 2013)

What say you?

I've been suffering with my back since early summer and whilst I've rectified a lot of the pain with regular stretching I feel there's a spot deep down I can't get to.

It's not a new problem and I've used an osteopath in the past, one's retired and well, the other didn't really help much so I'm on the search for another.

So whilst pondering who to spend my money on I thought I'd throw myself to the knowledge of the forum and seek your wisdom?


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## Beebo (22 Aug 2013)

Having a history of back problems from playing rugby, I would say use a sports physiotherapist. But then I dont know your problem. Mine was eventually shown to be muscular and posture related.

I found the Chiropractor to be next to rubbish, a few clicks and cracks here and there but no route cause analysis.

The sporst physio gave me massage amd exercises to sort my back out, and it was much better as they dealt with the cause of the pain in the first place.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2013)

Beebo said:


> Having a history of back problems from playing rugby, I would say use a sports physiotherapist. But then I dont know your problem. Mine was eventually shown to be muscular and posture related.
> 
> I found the Chiropractor to be next to rubbish, a few clicks and cracks here and there but no route cause analysis.
> 
> The sporst physio gave me massage amd exercises to sort my back out, and it was much better as they dealt with the cause of the pain in the first place.


 
A physio is another thought.


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## Ben M (22 Aug 2013)

Physiotherapist.

Whilst the other two might treat the symptoms, a physio will find the cause and sort it from there.

It isn't even necessary to spend your money, your GP should be able to refer you.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2013)

Ben M said:


> Physiotherapist.
> 
> Whilst the other two might treat the symptoms, a physio will find the cause and sort it from there.
> 
> It isn't even necessary to spend your money, your GP should be able to refer you.


 
Yes I can certainly get a referral but I'm not sure of the wait or the treatment frequency plus my GP is inundated with my problems at the moment, it's been a summer of collapse. If I were a dog they'd shoot me.


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## mickle (22 Aug 2013)

I had fantastic results from an osteopath which sorted a lifetime of back woes.


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## Soltydog (22 Aug 2013)

I've had back problems too over the last 12 months. I started with a chiropracter & it worked well, then through work I've had 2 courses of physiotherapy (with different physios) I'm happy with the treatment & advice from the Chiro. The first Physio got some results, but I was off work & getting plenty of rest at the time & the 2nd physio made very little difference. All 3 offered different advice & exercises to help, but I finally seem to be getting my back somewhere near right.
Maybe worth signing up to Groupon if you arent already as recently in Hull there's been some offers for physio & chiro treatments


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## MontyVeda (22 Aug 2013)

i started seeing a chiropractor about 10 years ago... £35 per half hour session... my second visit cost £35 for 25mins... 3rd visit cost £35 for 20 minutes.... I didn't return to see if he'd charge me £35 for 15 mins because he did feck all in the first three sessions


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## User6179 (22 Aug 2013)

Let your doctor decide on the treatment, chiropractors are not paid on the nhs as the treatments have no scientific basis so you should rule them out imo .


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## jefmcg (22 Aug 2013)

Physiotherapist. Chiropractic == witch doctors.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/apr/19/controversiesinscience-health


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## subaqua (22 Aug 2013)

Eddy said:


> Let your doctor decide on the treatment, chiropractors are not paid on the nhs as the treatments have no scientific basis so you should rule them out imo .


 
the NHS couldn't do anything for my shoulder , neck and knee pain. an intesive treatment course at the chiropractor eased the pains and I am a lot more flexible than I was.

the mumbo jumbo about treating astma etc i don't beleive for a second but for joint pain then it works for me.

I was cynical to start with and didn't give anything away as to what was wrong. I waited for the chiro to examine , take Xrays and make his conclusions as to what ached where and why. he told me i had been in 2 major accidents about 10 yrs apart and which body part had been injured when. He was spot on with the diagnosis and the cause.


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## User6179 (22 Aug 2013)

subaqua said:


> the NHS couldn't do anything for my shoulder , neck and knee pain. an intesive treatment course at the chiropractor eased the pains and I am a lot more flexible than I was.
> 
> the mumbo jumbo about treating astma etc i don't beleive for a second but for joint pain then it works for me.
> 
> I was cynical to start with and didn't give anything away as to what was wrong. I waited for the chiro to examine , take Xrays and make his conclusions as to what ached where and why. he told me i had been in 2 major accidents about 10 yrs apart and which body part had been injured when. He was spot on with the diagnosis and the cause.


 
One thing that dosnt ring true with this story is why would a medical proffessional (I use the term loosely ) start x-rays before knowing your medical history ?


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## Tcr4x4 (22 Aug 2013)

Physio for sure..

Osteopath almost crippled me for life after a misdiagnosis. 

Physio made me pain free for the first time in 20 years.. Although the pain returned shortly after each session.


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## roadrash (22 Aug 2013)

back problems I DO KNOW ABOUT, do yourself a favour and keep away from the chiropractors, another vote for physio from me,


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## Saluki (22 Aug 2013)

I see a DORN practitioner fairly regularly. She doesn't 'crack' my back but administers gentle massage and she has kept my sciatica at bay for a goodly time now. I have had more relief from back pain seeing her than I have from OTs, Physios, Chiropracters and Osteopaths put together.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2013)

So a pretty mixed bag of experience, which is to be expected I suppose. My first osteopath was very good, no cracking but sadly retired. The second cracked my bones alarmingly and seemed to have little effect. So it seems to depend on the person. I think I need to get some recommendations locally.


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## slowmotion (22 Aug 2013)

A long time ago I had a really bad prolapsed disc which was excruciatingly painful. The osteopath did not good at all except enriching himself. The physiotherapists of the NHS did a fantastic job.


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## Hip Priest (22 Aug 2013)

Another vote for physio. Like slowmo, I had a prolapsed disc and bad sciatica. I wasted almost £400 making several visits to a chiropractor, then went to a physio who sorted me out in two sessions.

I take a very dim view of chiropractors.


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## vickster (22 Aug 2013)

I'd pay to see a sports physio. NHS usually shorter appointments and then exercises. My private physio does full kit and kaboodle, deep tssue massage, ultrasound, acupuncture etc. Should be £50-60 for the first hour and then £35-40 for subsequent appointments


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## Albert (22 Aug 2013)

Chiropractors are useless at best. A good Osteopath _can_ do wonders, *but* the vast majority are not good.
Physio + targeted exercises is the way to go.


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## lukesdad (22 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> What say you?
> 
> I've been suffering with my back since early summer and whilst I've rectified a lot of the pain with regular stretching I feel there's a spot deep down I can't get to.
> 
> ...


Knackers Yard


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## just jim (22 Aug 2013)

Ben M said:


> Physiotherapist.
> 
> Whilst the other two might treat the symptoms, a physio will find the cause and sort it from there.
> 
> It isn't even necessary to spend your money, your GP should be able to refer you.


 
From my post-crash-hurty-shoulder experience I would put this the other way around. The physio and massage therapist were not able to treat the cause - the osteopath did. Once my vertebrae were realigned I was able to heal up properly.


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## PK99 (22 Aug 2013)

Ben M said:


> Physiotherapist.
> 
> Whilst the other two might treat the symptoms, a physio will find the cause and sort it from there.
> 
> It isn't even necessary to spend your money, your GP should be able to refer you.


 
From experience.... NHS Physio is limited in scope compared to sports injury specialist physio.


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## slowmotion (22 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> What say you?
> 
> I've been suffering with my back since early summer and whilst I've rectified a lot of the pain with regular stretching I feel there's a spot deep down I can't get to.
> 
> ...


 As I said, I had a really badly prolapsed disc a while back. Loads and loads of pain and misery. My GP referred me to the NHS physios at Charing Cross Hospital, and also to a neurosurgeon. The physios saw me once a week and pulled my legs about. A rather lovely bunch of very bossy women who bullied me into doing regular routines at home, and stretched my back on a traction bed in the hospital . Things got better over the next three months , but I was eventually called to see the neurosurgeon who told me that I needed to have surgery. I gently suggested that I would rather not go there given that the non-intrusive therapy seemed to be working so far. " You do want to get better, don't you?" he said. He was four hours late for my appointment, I was still in some pain and I rather resented his condescension, and his faint suggestion that I might be some kind of a time-waster. The next few sentences were fairly tense.
Later, my GP read me part of the consultant's letter which contained the words "rude young man". I was sorry, but the clinical judgement of the neurosurgeon was, actually, crap. The physios put me back together and I have had no problems for the last twenty years.


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## srw (23 Aug 2013)

Alexander technique teacher? It's a whole-body intervention which is proven to work with back pain.

The downside is that it's a long process, and you might get bored of hearing "head, neck, back". Even typing that has had me adjusting my posture.


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2013)

slowmotion said:


> As I said, I had a really badly prolapsed disc a while back. Loads and loads of pain and misery. My GP referred me to the NHS physios at Charing Cross Hospital, and also to a neurosurgeon. The physios saw me once a week and pulled my legs about. A rather lovely bunch of very bossy women who bullied me into doing regular routines at home, and stretched my back on a traction bed in the hospital . Things got better over the next three months , but I was eventually called to see the neurosurgeon who told me that I needed to have surgery. I gently suggested that I would rather not go there given that the non-intrusive therapy seemed to be working so far. " You do want to get better, don't you?" he said. He was four hours late for my appointment, I was still in some pain and I rather resented his condescension, and his faint suggestion that I might be some kind of a time-waster. The next few sentences were fairly tense.
> Later, my GP read me part of the consultant's letter which contained the words "rude young man". I was sorry, but the clinical judgement of the neurosurgeon was, actually, crap. The physios put me back together and I have had no problems for the last twenty years.


 
Interesting slowmo. You don't do small problems do you, you tend to, as the fast food industry says, go large when you have a problem 


srw said:


> Alexander technique teacher? It's a whole-body intervention which is proven to work with back pain.
> 
> The downside is that it's a long process, and you might get bored of hearing "head, neck, back". Even typing that has had me adjusting my posture.


 
A quick Google of the Alexander technique suggests it has merit, posture, is I think, at the root of my problem.

After starting this thread, suffering with pain/discomfort from early July, I'm sitting here this morning feeling a slight fraud. CC threads are often helpful but this may be the first time one has cured someone. I am this morning, largely pain free and comfortable. OK maybe it wasn't the thread but as I suggested further up I thought this was muscular but the stretching I was doing, whilst helping, was not reaching deep enough and I was beginning to feel a bit down about the whole thing. Soldiering on only works for so long.

So what did I do. Well I felt that I needed to use my upper body more, running made my back worse as did impact sports like badminton and squash and hill walking (all of which I've done recently, it being summer and the kids being off, no escape from family activities). Cycling was tolerable and swimming I discovered, very helpful but I'm no swimmer. So the clues were there for me even though I'd reached the point were I was unconvinced I could get on top of this myself without help.

So yesterday I went to the local bouldering wall. Normally I just drop the kids and read, my climbing days very much behind me. This time I didn't, I climbed, carefully, no jumping off though. So with the kids telling me to raise my right foot and just get my left hand down by my left foot and push up, I was very much stretching my body. The fact that they look elegant when doing it and I look like I've been licked and stuck on the wall and am now peeling off is neither here nor there and I digress..

When I finished I thought I'd made a mistake. My back ached. In fact I got out of bed to stretch later on and I went to sleep apprehensive of this mornings pain and determined to re-visit this thread, make a decision and make an appt. So imagine my complete surprise on waking this morning and finding, no pain and free movement. No lurching off the couch in a kind of choreographed mime move.

So now I'm not sure if I need to see anyone. Instead I might continue the stretching, climb carefully and try to become a swimmer and see where that takes me. In the meantime I can see my doc and get a referral as I feel I can wait now and I think a physio will help more by suggesting appropriate exercises based on what I can tell them helps and what doesn't.

I' m also going to change my desk chair, maybe to one of those kneeling ones, feedback on them most helpful before I spend money. I probably also need to think about how I stand and how I sit but most of all I think I need to keep doing something which keeps my upper body supple.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for everyone's input, keep it coming please.


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## srw (23 Aug 2013)

Oddly enough, Alexander teachers recommend the kneely chairs, because they encourage full engagement of the upper body. They're very good for developing core and back muscles, which in turn help with posture and upper body musculature problems. I find them reasonably comfortable, but my legs aren't really flexible enough to use one for a long time.


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## MontyVeda (23 Aug 2013)

i had one of those kneeling chairs for a while... they're interesting for about 10 minutes, after that, down right uncomfortable .. poeple do rave about them, but after 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 2 or 3 months, i don't.


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## Mark Grant (23 Aug 2013)

I had a bad back and a disinterested doctor for a number of years, then a new doc sent me for physio who recommended a list of exercises. I said that I probably wouldn't do them by myself but did he think a pilates class would help. He replied with an emphatic 'yes' and I started doing a Monday night class about 2 years ago, (the only man!) it has been a great help and I would certainly recommend it.


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## roadrash (23 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> Interesting slowmo. You don't do small problems do you, you tend to, as the fast food industry says, go large when you have a problem
> 
> 
> A quick Google of the Alexander technique suggests it has merit, posture, is I think, at the root of my problem.
> ...


 

a cures a cure, no matter where it comes from , enjoy the relief,and fingers crossed it lasts for you


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## Tcr4x4 (23 Aug 2013)

My physio actually recommend rock climbing for my back, like you say, it stretches the muscles out and isn't very impactive. 
Not tried it though, I'll stick to cycling and being in pain!


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2013)

I had poor experience with NHS physio & very good with a Chiropractor - recommended by my GP with profuse apologies & unhappiness they weren't available as an NHS option.

No 2 bad backs are the same, nor our responses to treatment, what is good for me might be terrible for you.
Go with your gut but keep an open mind & if whatever you pick as Plan A doesn't work, give different things a go until you find the one that does work for you. 

one observation on Chiro's as they've taken a predictable kicking again. For all the negativity and dismissing of it you'll hear & read: bear in mind they don't get subsidised by NHS patronage and have to survive on their ability to perform, there are an awful lot of established thriving businesses out there, even in relatively small places. Pretty much everyone at mine had a similar tale of failing to find an answer previously under physio etc and/or for *free* via the NHS. 

Why would people keep coming back, paying a good chunk of their own hard earned cash each time for something supposedly ineffective & mumbo jumbo or giving physical relief that is available at no cost to themselves elsewhere?


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## srw (25 Aug 2013)

There are also an awful lot of thriving and even wealthy homoeopaths - which is a treatment which has been proven to be completely useless.

I can believe that chiropractic can have an impact on lower back pain, as it involves manipulating the lower back - which is part of the repertoire of physiotherapists. But far too many chiropractors seem to believe that working the lower back will magically cure all sorts of completely unrelated conditions.


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## MontyVeda (25 Aug 2013)

Mark Grant said:


> I had a bad back and a disinterested doctor for a number of years, then a new doc sent me for physio who recommended a list of exercises. I said that I probably wouldn't do them by myself but did he think a pilates class would help. He replied with an emphatic 'yes' and I started doing a Monday night class about 2 years ago, (the only man!) it has been a great help and I would certainly recommend it.


dull fact of the day... Pilates was developed in the confines of a cell in Lancaster castle


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## The Jogger (25 Aug 2013)

Mrs Jogger has just been referred to a chiropractor for scoliosis so after reading this I won't hold out much hope and she will probably need some other type of treatment.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Aug 2013)

You'll get some individuals who were lucky and had good experience with either, but both osteopathy nor chiropractic have little basis in what how we know the body actually works, and both can be seriously dangerous. The average doctor isn't go to be much use either as, unless they specialize in the area, then they get very little training in biomechanics (it was about one undergraduate lecture over the whole course at my last British university - I asked). I'd go see a reputable sports physio. They get up to date training which is relevant to what you need.


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## slowmotion (26 Aug 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Why would people keep coming back, paying a good chunk of their own hard earned cash each time for something supposedly ineffective & mumbo jumbo or giving physical relief that is available at no cost to themselves elsewhere?


 
I can't answer that, but plenty of people spray their cash at astrologers as well.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Aug 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> dull fact of the day... Pilates was developed in the confines of a cell in Lancaster castle


 
Well, more in an internment camp on the Isle of Man, but yes, Lancaster is where JP started developing it more systematically before he was transferred.


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## Hill Wimp (26 Aug 2013)

Osteopath. I fell of a horse, though i was ok, braved my way on for 2 years doing myself even more damage and loads of pain. Went to an Osteopath who correctly diagnosed the problem and found a few more but put me on the path to recovery. I was amazed at the range of injuries and symptoms that they can deal with and how gentle the manipulation was. She also taught me to listen to my body better and introduced me to rehabilitation Pilates. No cracking involved either.


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## shouldbeinbed (26 Aug 2013)

srw said:


> There are also an awful lot of thriving and even wealthy homoeopaths - which is a treatment which has been proven to be completely useless.
> 
> I can believe that chiropractic can have an impact on lower back pain, as it involves manipulating the lower back - which is part of the repertoire of physiotherapists. But far too many chiropractors seem to believe that working the lower back will magically cure all sorts of completely unrelated conditions.


 Thriving and Wealthy: You could say the same about many many different businesses/business models that you may disagree with or any religion you care to mention for my taste.
I quite agree there is an element of salesmanship in it & no doubt some are keen to embellish their repertoire - the one I went to wasn't but hey ho, some builders and car salesmen are far more dis / honest than others. Embellishment for gain is hardly unique to chiropractors is it?

I wonder if the no doubt totally altruistic Physiotherapy wasn't on the NHS payroll but had to be self financing what claims some of them would make about unrelated conditions to maintain a business in a busy competitive sector?


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## srw (27 Aug 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I wonder if the no doubt totally altruistic Physiotherapy wasn't on the NHS payroll but had to be self financing what claims some of them would make about unrelated conditions to maintain a business in a busy competitive sector?


They don't have to. Physiotherapy is a medically proven intervention aimed at relieving specific problems, and is very widely available privately. Very, very widely. I don't know, but given the state of NHS physiotherapy (short-sightedly cut to the bone) I wouldn't be surprised to discover that there were more private than NHS physios.


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## Crackle (27 Aug 2013)

There's certainly several private physio practises near me, one of whom I know and she is a well thought of NHS physio, who works with the British Equestrian team, sadly specialising in shoulders and I cycle past three a bit further afield which are sports injury clinics, two of which are quite new.


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## tyred (28 Aug 2013)

I would consider finding someone near you who does the Bowen Technique. I had struggled with a bad back for a number of years (probably related to poor posture sitting at a desk) and went to woman who does the Bowen technique on the recommendation of a friend and it has really sorted me out and I feel so flexible in a way I never remember feeling before.

It's all light massage with no cracking joints or anything like that and is an incredibly relaxing experience.

http://www.bowen-technique.co.uk/


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## Andrew_Culture (28 Aug 2013)

I borked my back falling out of a fast moving car and Chiro has done me wonders and I'm VERY sceptical about any alternative therapies. 

I'm not sure there is a one size fits all answer for which is the best therapy.


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## srw (28 Aug 2013)

On the more dubious claims of chiropractic, and the alarming way in which chiropractors have reacted to mild scientific criticism:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCA_v._Singh


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## subaqua (28 Aug 2013)

srw said:


> On the more dubious claims of chiropractic, and the alarming way in which chiropractors have reacted to mild scientific criticism:
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCA_v._Singh


 
as I said in my post , take some of the claims with a large pinch.

not too bad tho 3 pages before the Singh case popped up


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## jefmcg (28 Aug 2013)

subaqua said:


> not too bad tho 3 pages before the Singh case popped up


 
ummm....



jefmcg said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/apr/19/controversiesinscience-health


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## roadrash (28 Aug 2013)

same as everything else in life, whats right for one person may not be right for another etc etc.


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## ColinJ (28 Aug 2013)

I went to a chiropractor for a back problem about 20 years ago. I felt that the initial back massage was relaxing, and the back 'adjustments' seemed to provide some temporary relief. The thing that alarmed me was the neck 'cracking'. I always felt that it was a potentially dangerous thing to do. It turns out that it _is_ - example!


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## palinurus (28 Aug 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I borked my back falling out of a fast moving car


 
Rock and Roll.


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## screenman (28 Aug 2013)

When I was a used car dealer I fancied a change of career direction, osteopath and chiropractor were two I considered as I had the suitable background.

Book them for 6 and they should be better was the trade saying back then, I hope things have changed.

Sports physio for me.


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## screenman (28 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> No one ever mentions the very well-researched finding that most thing get better on their own. In the meantime, people in pain are a good income stream.


 
That was my middle sentence meant to mean, I guess you got that though.


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## subaqua (28 Aug 2013)

jefmcg said:


> ummm....


 OK named properly rather than a grauniad article


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## srw (28 Aug 2013)

Half a TMN to jefmcg?


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## BAtoo (28 Aug 2013)

Crackle said:


> What say you?
> 
> I've been suffering with my back since early summer and whilst I've rectified a lot of the pain with regular stretching I feel there's a spot deep down I can't get to.
> 
> ...


 

Osteopath every time for me............

they seem to have a better all round knowledge and effective treatments...


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## Crackle (31 Aug 2013)

Just popped back to report that the stretching I've been doing consistently has worked wonders and I'm now virtually pain free. Still feel a slight tweak but it's getting better all the time.

I've had to stop climbing because my golfers elbow has flared up, something else I've been ignoring and it may well be this I go to see the physio for. I don't play golf by the way: I blame the dog and throwing his ball for him. From now on he's going to be bereft of his ball while I sort this out.


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## roadrash (31 Aug 2013)

sounds like you need to get booked in for a full m.o.t


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## Crackle (31 Aug 2013)

roadrash said:


> sounds like you need to get booked in for a full m.o.t


I won't mention the rest of my summer then.


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## roadrash (31 Aug 2013)

i take it its not been a good one then , healthwise that is.


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## Crackle (31 Aug 2013)

roadrash said:


> i take it its not been a good one then , healthwise that is.


All relatively minor stuff in reality but just major enough to make you have to make some adjustments to keep on doing the things you're doing.


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## roadrash (31 Aug 2013)

good to hear ..... that its nothing serious i mean


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## Gary Stanley (7 Sep 2013)

I slipped a disc last year, started with a Osteopath but didn't really make any progress, changed to a Chiropractor and, even though I was off the bike for a year, I saw a slow but steady improvement under the chirp and I'm now back on the bike.....just need to loose some weight now........for me it's a chiropractor every time !!


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