# Wheel Upgrade for Christmas.



## Boon 51 (2 Dec 2013)

On my bike I have a pair of DT Axis 1.0's and I thinking about getting an upgrade wheelset for christmas.
So far I've looked at two sets that have caught my eye..
Mavic Ksyruim Elite S ( £472) and the Zipp 30 clincher (£540)

Have you any thoughts or even something else I could look at.. they need to be good on hills.

Cheers


----------



## jowwy (3 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> On my bike I have a pair of DT Axis 1.0's and I thinking about getting an upgrade wheelset for christmas.
> So far I've looked at two sets that have caught my eye..
> Mavic Ksyruim Elite S ( £472) and the Zipp 30 clincher (£540)
> 
> ...


have you thought of getting handbuilt wheels to your specification - could get a fair spec for £500


----------



## derrick (3 Dec 2013)

I use these Mavic Ksyruim Elite S, Have been very happy with them,


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> have you thought of getting handbuilt wheels to your specification - could get a fair spec for £500


 
I had thought of hand built but living in Spain just makes it all to expensive especially if something goes wrong... shame really.


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2013)

derrick said:


> I use these Mavic Ksyruim Elite S, Have been very happy with them,


 
Did you get the ones with these fancy tyres on or did you just get the wheels..?


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2013)

What are the Fulrum's like either the 3's or the £100 dearer 1's..


----------



## jowwy (3 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I had thought of hand built but living in Spain just makes it all to expensive especially if something goes wrong... shame really.


http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-sh...ano-rs81-c35-carbon-laminate-wheels-pair.html

hubba hubba


----------



## ianrauk (3 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> have you thought of getting handbuilt wheels to your specification - could get a fair spec for £500




Agreed....there are some really good wheel builders out there who will make you a pair of one off's to your own spec for not a lot of money.


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-sh...ano-rs81-c35-carbon-laminate-wheels-pair.html
> 
> hubba hubba


 
They look very nice and at a good price.. I might give them a ring.

PS.. Just looked on there web site and its free shipping to Spain.. mmmmm


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2013)

Just emailed the bike shop in Malaga and his price for the Mavic Elite S's are €528 and those Shimano RS 81's are €563 delivered so nowt really in the price.
Not knowing much about wheels are they the same spec or is one better than the other?

Cheers Paul


----------



## Spoked Wheels (3 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I had thought of hand built but living in Spain just makes it all to expensive especially if something goes wrong... shame really.



You don't have to buy from here  I'm sure you can find excellent wheel builders in Spain too.


----------



## jowwy (3 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> They look very nice and at a good price.. I might give them a ring.
> 
> PS.. Just looked on there web site and its free shipping to Spain.. mmmmm


this is what they say in short about the rs81's

*Like the Zipps the rims on the RS81s are pretty wide at 20.8mm. We've seen a lot wider rims recently for a couple of reasons, It improves the aerodynamics of the tyre and rim combination because it makes for a smoother transition between the two, and it also makes the rim laterally stiffer, and the wheel stronger.*

i have wider rims on my handbuilts and they do make for a nice comfy plush ride with 25mm tyres


----------



## derrick (3 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Did you get the ones with these fancy tyres on or did you just get the wheels..?


I have been using Ultremos which are really nice, but my other half has just bought me some mavic tyres but i have not fitted them yet, but i have a mate who uses the mavics and he rates them really good, probably will not put them on till the spring when the weather gets a bit better.


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

RRSODL said:


> You don't have to buy from here  I'm sure you can find excellent wheel builders in Spain too.


 
I expect I could find a wheel builder over here but they will cost more and of course you have the language barrier as I've found out .
Ordering a meal and general spanish I'm OK with but anything medical, legal, mechanical, or electrical is very hard.. I will have a scout around and see what I can come up with..


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

derrick said:


> I have been using Ultremos which are really nice, but my other half has just bought me some mavic tyres but i have not fitted them yet, but i have a mate who uses the mavics and he rates them really good, probably will not put them on till the spring when the weather gets a bit better.


 
I do the same I have Gatorskins over the winter months and Conti 4000s in the summer..


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> this is what they say in short about the rs81's
> 
> *Like the Zipps the rims on the RS81s are pretty wide at 20.8mm. We've seen a lot wider rims recently for a couple of reasons, It improves the aerodynamics of the tyre and rim combination because it makes for a smoother transition between the two, and it also makes the rim laterally stiffer, and the wheel stronger.*
> 
> i have wider rims on my handbuilts and they do make for a nice comfy plush ride with 25mm tyres


 
I favour the 25cc size myself too..


----------



## Spoked Wheels (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I expect I could find a wheel builder over here but they will cost more and of course you have the language barrier as I've found out .
> Ordering a meal and general spanish I'm OK with but anything medical, legal, mechanical, or electrical is very hard.. I will have a scout around and see what I can come up with..


 I understand, it's not easy at the beginning. I went through that myself when I first came to this country, my university years are full of tails with language moments . My Spanish is so rusty now that I have to mentally prepare myself to start a conversation 

If you need help with it then drop me a pm. 

Good luck


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I favour the 25cc size myself too..


personally if it was my cash i would buy hadnbuilts - but the shimanos do look like a very nice wheel - but there is weight limit with them, which i am led to believe is 90kgs including the bike - so with a bike weight of around 10kg, that would mean a rider weight of approx 80kg


----------



## Rob3rt (4 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> personally if it was my cash i would buy hadnbuilts - but the shimanos do look like a very nice wheel - but there is weight limit with them, which i am led to believe is 90kgs including the bike - so with a bike weight of around 10kg, that would mean a rider weight of approx 80kg



Seems a fairly low limit if that is the case, me + bike (with bottles etc) = ~84kg and I am a racing snake!


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Seems a fairly low limit if that is the case, me + bike (with bottles etc) = ~84kg and I am a racing snake!


i thought that too rob - its a question posted on wiggle about the wheels and the reply says 90kg including the bike


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Seems a fairly low limit if that is the case, me + bike (with bottles etc) = ~84kg and I am a racing snake!


* IS there a rider weight limit for these wheels? *

Country : Australia
1 month, 1 week ago
itsandy09
Melbourne VIC, Australia

1I have this question too





Maximum rider weight is 90kg. This also includes the weight of the bike.
1 month ago
WiggleDanO

helpful0unhelpful0
Answer this question


----------



## VamP (4 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Seems a fairly low limit if that is the case, me + bike (with bottles etc) = ~84kg and I am a racing snake!


 

A big racing snake though


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

RRSODL said:


> I understand, it's not easy at the beginning. I went through that myself when I first came to this country, my university years are full of tails with language moments . My Spanish is so rusty now that I have to mentally prepare myself to start a conversation
> 
> If you need help with it then drop me a pm.
> 
> Good luck


 
I'm going to the local bike shop in the next day or two so I will ask if he knows of anyone that does hand build wheels..
Thanks for the help offer thats very king of you.. cheers


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> personally if it was my cash i would buy hadnbuilts - but the shimanos do look like a very nice wheel - but there is weight limit with them, which i am led to believe is 90kgs including the bike - so with a bike weight of around 10kg, that would mean a rider weight of approx 80kg


 
I'm well under 80kg I'm 10st 5lbs what ever that is in kg's and thats after a roast dinner and 3 pizza's


----------



## Rob3rt (4 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> A big racing snake though



Long snake is long!


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I'm well under 80kg I'm 10st 5lbs what ever that is in kg's and thats after a roast dinner and 3 pizza's


65kgs - thats the last time i chat to you racing snake


----------



## VamP (4 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Long snake is long!


 
oh yeah


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> 65kgs - thats the last time i chat to you racing snake


 
Less of the racing....


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

Question..
If I was to go down the hand built wheel's route how do I know what to ask for? or do you give them a price say €500 and let them build them to that price?
I have no clue.


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Question..
> If I was to go down the hand built wheel's route how do I know what to ask for? or do you give them a price say €500 and let them build them to that price?
> I have no clue.


what do you want from the wheels?? do you need them lightweight?? strong? for racing? every day use? etc etc

then contact dcr wheels, have a gander at his website, then drop him an email with your requirements and he will advise on the wheels - thats what i did


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> what do you want from the wheels?? do you need them lightweight?? strong? for racing? every day use? etc etc
> 
> then contact dcr wheels, have a gander at his website, then drop him an email with your requirements and he will advise on the wheels - thats what i did


 
Hi jowwy.

The Axis rims I have on my bike at the moment are sluggish and hard work as was my old bike wheels on the other bike but they are a 30 size which are better aero wise so less crosswind problems.
I need faster spinning for hills but I'm not racing just going as fast as I can.
Light weight and strong would be an advantage for sure.
I will look at the website tonight and wing an email of to him and see what he comes up with..
Thanks once again for good info..


----------



## jowwy (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Hi jowwy.
> 
> The Axis rims I have on my bike at the moment are sluggish and hard work as was my old bike wheels on the other bike but they are a 30 size which are better aero wise so less crosswind problems.
> I need faster spinning for hills but I'm not racing just going as fast as I can.
> ...


Good man

Im using velocity a23's on 105hubs and they really are nice wheels. I use them for winter training rides.


----------



## Spoked Wheels (4 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Question..
> If I was to go down the hand built wheel's route how do I know what to ask for? or do you give them a price say €500 and let them build them to that price?
> I have no clue.


Well, you should have a good idea of the use intended, ie commuting, racing, club rides, etc. The quality of roads you use. He should be able to suggest suitable components to build you the wheels for your weight (don't see any issues with that) the weight of the wheels will determine a lot of how much they cost. You can give the builder an idea of the weight you would like the wheels to be. He should be able to spec something for you.


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Dec 2013)

Right I have send an email and once he has replied I will give him a ring as its easier to talk to someone than write emails..


----------



## Boon 51 (6 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-sh...ano-rs81-c35-carbon-laminate-wheels-pair.html
> 
> hubba hubba


 
Hi jowwy..
Do you reckon theses wheels would be good for acceleration and on the hill climbs?


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Hi jowwy..
> Do you reckon theses wheels would be good for acceleration and on the hill climbs?


personally the only thing that would help speed, acceleration and climbing is the engine itself - but thats not withstanding the fact that stiffer, lighter wheels would help with the transfer of power from the drive train to the wheel and towards forward momentum, but the gains would be quite small.

for me wheels are more about the bling factor than the performance factor as at my age, weight and ability i could never do any wheelset justice.

BUT - they are very nice wheels indeed


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Hi jowwy..
> Do you reckon theses wheels would be good for acceleration and on the hill climbs?



They are heavy for the money IMO. My £200 Pro-Lite wheels are lighter than that. The Shimano are a bit deeper section though to be fair, but they are for sure not climbing wheels if that is what you are looking for.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> They are heavy for the money IMO.


they do seem quite heavy at 1670grammes - but i'm sure i've seen heavier carbon wheels for a lot more money than that - i'm guessing that its probably down to the carbon laminate and 35mm deep rims - but they do look nice Rob3rt


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> they do seem quite heavy at 1670grammes - but i'm sure i've seen heavier carbon wheels for a lot more money than that - i'm guessing that its probably down to the carbon laminate and 35mm deep rims - but they do look nice Rob3rt



They look okay, nowt special.

There are probably heavier carbon wheels out there, conversely, there are 1100g carbon wheelsets for ~£400 available!


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> They look okay, nowt special.
> 
> There are probably heavier carbon wheels out there, conversely, there are 1100g carbon wheelsets for ~£400 available!


were, were let me at em, i wanna see lol


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

Read VamP's thread on his CX wheels.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Read VamP's thread on his CX wheels.


ah yeh i saw that post - still a bit weary of them tho - i'm looking at getting a set in the spring to put on my 29er for commuting on, disc brake compatible though


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

I know a bloke trialling some carbon clinchers through the winter before moving forward with importing and selling under his brand, I am eager to hear his views on them and about a tubular version, something super light.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I know a bloke trialling some carbon clinchers through the winter before moving forward with importing and selling under his brand, I am eager to hear his views on them and about a tubular version, something super light.


would be good to know how that goes rob3rt


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

Other than some brake squealing on a few descents on a ride the other week (which I guess happens with most carbon wheels, it does with my FFWD's) they are looking pretty good so far. He was talking about going into the wind tunnel with some of his new designs and products (I believe some products he sells are his design, especially aero bars, others are re-branded open imports, but they tend to be ones that are less common and that he has tested to be superior) in the new year too, so maybe he will come back with some data on them, unlike other carbon importers.


----------



## jowwy (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Other than some brake squealing on a few descents on a ride the other week (which I guess happens with most carbon wheels, it does with my FFWD's) they are looking pretty good so far. He was talking about going into the wind tunnel with some of his new designs and products (I believe some products he sells are his design, especially aero bars, others are re-branded open imports, but they tend to be ones that are less common and that he has tested to be superior) in the new year too, so maybe he will come back with some data on them, unlike other carbon importers.


i got my roadie wheels - but as said i would like a nice pair for the 29er - i don't use it for mountain biking as such, more towpaths and cycle routes - unluckily for me we aint allowed to tarmac the canal were i am, so its largely rural, potholes and muddy in some secctions - so a nice pair to fit some cx tyres too would be very nice


----------



## Boon 51 (6 Dec 2013)

Thanks for your imput guys..
I am looking for good hill clinbing wheels and a bit speedier on the pickup as the wheels on my Bod Boy 2 and my Crosstrail Comp have better pick up than the DT Axis 1.0's that are on my road bike?


----------



## jowwy (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Thanks for your imput guys..
> I am looking for good hill clinbing wheels and a bit speedier on the pickup as the wheels on my Bod Boy 2 and my Crosstrail Comp have better pick up than the DT Axis 1.0's that are on my road bike?


Dcr will def build you a good set of lightweight wheels boon - he really is very good informativr guy


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> Dcr will def build you a good set of lightweight wheels boon - he really is very good informativr guy


 
Cheers jowwy..

I do have a couple of problems mate... I send Dave from Dcr an email which he never replied too I then sent him a text to which he gave me a mobile number, the cost for me abroad to ring another mobile in another country is mega bucks and he doesn't have a landline number and I'm a bit wary of dealing with a firm that hasn't a landline number as I've been caught before..
So I'm not giving up on Dcr's but I'll just have to think of another mode of conversation, not sure what though..

Cheers Paul


----------



## ianrauk (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Cheers jowwy..
> 
> I do have a couple of problems mate... I send Dave from Dcr an email which he never replied too I then sent him a text to which he gave me a mobile number, the cost for me abroad to ring another mobile in another country is mega bucks and he doesn't have a landline number and I'm a bit wary of dealing with a firm that hasn't a landline number as I've been caught before..
> So I'm not giving up on Dcr's but I'll just have to think of another mode of conversation, not sure what though..
> ...




He is usually very quick at replying to emails. So strange that he hasn't replied.
He has made 3 pairs of wheels for me now, and wheels for plenty of others on CC.
He is very trustworthy.


----------



## jowwy (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Cheers jowwy..
> 
> I do have a couple of problems mate... I send Dave from Dcr an email which he never replied too I then sent him a text to which he gave me a mobile number, the cost for me abroad to ring another mobile in another country is mega bucks and he doesn't have a landline number and I'm a bit wary of dealing with a firm that hasn't a landline number as I've been caught before..
> So I'm not giving up on Dcr's but I'll just have to think of another mode of conversation, not sure what though..
> ...


Oh ok - he always replied to me via email. Those other wheels i linked you too was a very good set of wheels and would be a lot better than the standard ones on your spesh. I would go certainly buy them if i was in the market for new wheels.


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

ianrauk said:


> He is usually very quick at replying to emails. So strange that he hasn't replied.
> He has made 3 pairs of wheels for me now, and wheels for plenty of others on CC.
> He is very trustworthy.


 
I'm sure he's a good guy and makes good wheels and he comes well recommended, I just dont want spend loads of money on phone call's..


----------



## ianrauk (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I'm sure he's a good guy and makes good wheels and he comes well recommended, I just dont want spend loads of money on phone call's..




For sure.. but still find it strange that he hasn't replied.
When did you send the emails?


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> Oh ok - he always replied to me via email. Those other wheels i linked you too was a very good set of wheels and would be a lot better than the standard ones on your spesh. I would go certainly buy them if i was in the market for new wheels.


 
I might send him another email and see what happens but Merlin do both the Shimano RS 81 and the Mavic Elite S and do free delivery abroad and both wheels I like?
Some reviews gave the Elite S a good wheel for climbing?
Cheers


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

ianrauk said:


> For sure.. but still find it strange that he hasn't replied.
> When did you send the emails?


 
Off the top of my head thursday night I think but I've got to give him a day or two so all is not lost yet?


----------



## Dusty Bin (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I might send him another email and see what happens but Merlin do both the Shimano RS 81 and the Mavic Elite S and do free delivery abroad and both wheels I like?
> Some reviews gave the Elite S a good wheel for climbing?
> Cheers



Assuming you mean the RS81 C24, they come in slightly lighter than the Mavics, so in 'theory' will climb better as you will be carrying less weight. Handbuilts are fine, but they are all just wheels at the end of the day...


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

Just googled Shimano dura ace 9000 C24 and two firms had these at £600 and wiggle had them at £278 surely thats a mistake?


----------



## Dusty Bin (7 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Just googled Shimano dura ace 9000 C24 and two firms had these at £600 and wiggle had them at £278 surely thats a mistake?



Probably the price for one wheel, not two...


----------



## Boon 51 (7 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Probably the price for one wheel, not two...


 
Ya right that will teach me to put some glasses on..


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

Morning Guys..
Just an update..

Still not heard from DCR so I will leave that alone. I did contact some else who was very helpful and here's what he said.

The DT Axis 1.0 wheels I have on the bike are not too bad as a wheel but not really good on quality, so I could give you only a little improvement on speed but a lot better quality of wheel.
Another big issue will be postage as he is only a one man band and it would cost me £100 + to send the wheels to Spain so thats ruled them out..

So its back to factory made one's.
Shimano.. RS81 C24's or Shimano RS81 35 carbon's the Mavic Elites S's, or the dearer Shimano 9000 dura ace @ £600 or the Fulcrum 1's and just a bit less.

Cheers


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

RS81 35mm carbons for me cause they look uber sexy - just my opinion

Fulcrums blah
Mavics blah
C24's not as nice as the 35's


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> RS81 35mm carbons for me cause they look uber sexy - just my opinion
> 
> Fulcrums blah
> Mavics blah
> C24's not as nice as the 35's


 
Do you think the 35 mm carbons would be better at up hill stuff than what I have?
I do like the wheels I have on because of the 30mm rim which helps loads in the crosswind saga, but thats all, not too keen on them as a wheel.


----------



## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

RS81 C35s are heavy wheels for the money, if that's what you want - compare the weight against your current wheels and if the RS81 C35s are heavier then they won't be an improvement uphill. The 24s are by far the better all-round performers. Fulcrum 1s are also good.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a 'funky-looking' 35mm section wheelset, then buy some Fulcrum Quattros - similar weight as the C35s - and about £300 less.


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Before i'm shot down in flames - again. this is the information that is posted on the interweb about these wheels

Your Current Wheels DT axis 1.0 = 2200grammes
Rs81's 35mm = 1689grammes
Rs81's C24 = 1537Grammes

both sets of wheels are significantly lighter then you current ones - so it now comes down to specification and looks 

and for me the the Rs81's 35mm wins handsdown on the looks front compared to the 24's.

Again thats just my 2cents - shod both pairs with some decent light weight rubber like conti 4000s and my personal opinion is that you would see a vast improvement, compared to your current hob nail boot wheels.


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

I saw 2200 g and just had to look  I see them listed at 2200g but also at 1950g  Either way they are phenomenally heavy

I do agree with Dusty that the 35mm Shimano's are very heavy for the price, and the aero benefit of 35 mm rims will be very small. If you like the look then that's fine, but there are better performing wheels out there for less.


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> I saw 2200 g and just had to look  I see them listed at 2200g but also at 1950g  Either way they are phenomenally heavy
> 
> I do agree with Dusty that the 35mm Shimano's are very heavy for the price, and the aero benefit of 35 mm rims will be very small. If you like the look then that's fine, but there are better performing wheels out there for less.


i knew you would Vamp - but this is what i found - but boon says he has 30mm deep rims so they may even be slightly heavier

Specification and Features of the DT Swiss Axis 1.0 Wheelset




•DT Swiss Axis 1.0 700c Wheelset


•Quality DT Swiss 23mm rims


•2200g Pair


•Single butted spokes


•24 Spokes Front


•32 Spokes Rear


•Quick Release Axles


•Shimano Compatible Steel Freehub body.


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> i knew you would Vamp - but this is what i found - but boon says he has 30mm deep rims so they may even be slightly heavier
> 
> Specification and Features of the DT Swiss Axis 1.0 Wheelset
> 
> ...


 
Not disputing it - just raising eyebrows at the weight.

@OP - you are in Malaga right? If I lived there, and wanted a good climbing wheelset, I'd be looking at carbon tubulars all day long. You can get very cheap carbon these days, or expensive obviously, if that's your thing, but a good very aero tubular will be sub 1300g and a non aero one sub 1000g.


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> Before i'm shot down in flames - again. this is the information that is posted on the interweb about these wheels
> 
> Your Current Wheels DT axis 1.0 = 2200grammes
> Rs81's 35mm = 1689grammes
> ...


 
Well done in finding the weight of my wheels, I googled and found nowt about the weight, I've just ordered some conti 4000's on Tuesday of this week so that part is done..
Cheers


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Well done in finding the weight of my wheels, I googled and found nowt about the weight, I've just ordered some conti 4000's on Tuesday of this week so that part is done..
> Cheers


no problem boon 51 - now its just the wheels you need to choose lol


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Not disputing it - just raising eyebrows at the weight.
> 
> @OP - you are in Malaga right? If I lived there, and wanted a good climbing wheelset, I'd be looking at carbon tubulars all day long. You can get very cheap carbon these days, or expensive obviously, if that's your thing, but a good very aero tubular will be sub 1300g and a non aero one sub 1000g.


 
Whats the tubular part mean..?
What wheels are carbon tubular as that might be and easier way for me to have a look..

Cheers


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Whats the tubular part mean..?
> What wheels are carbon tubular as that might be and easier way for me to have a look..
> 
> Cheers


tubular tyres and not clinchers - means you need to carry spare tyres if you ride rather than just spare tubes - good if your racing, but not for everyday riding

and again thats just my opinion. i prefer the ease of clinchers for everyday use.


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

As for the 30mm rims I have I do find they are better for crosswind as I have them on my bad boy 2.
Question. I have noticed some wheels have bladed spokes, how do they help a wheel perform?


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> tubular tyres and not clinchers - means you need to carry spare tyres if you ride rather than just spare tubes - good if your racing, but not for everyday riding
> 
> and again thats just my opinion. i prefer the ease of clinchers for everyday use.


 
Gotcha.. I think clinchers will do me I'm sure.


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> As for the 30mm rims I have I do find they are better for crosswind as I have them on my bad boy 2.
> Question. I have noticed some wheels have bladed spokes, how do they help a wheel perform?


have not got a clue about bladed spokes


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> have not got a clue about bladed spokes


 
They don't really. Well not very much anyway.


----------



## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> As for the 30mm rims I have I do find they are better for crosswind as I have them on my bad boy 2.
> *Question. I have noticed some wheels have bladed spokes, how do they help a wheel perform?*



Aero innit!


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> They don't really. Well not very much anyway.


never really looked into bladed spokes tbh


----------



## User6179 (12 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Aero innit!



Till they twist and become non aero


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> Gotcha.. I think clinchers will do me I'm sure.


 
It's a bit less black and white actually.

Tubulars puncture less often than clinchers.
They are lighter.
The wheels are much lighter.
They ride very plush and corner extremely well.
They can be fixed with sealant in less time than changing a clincher.
Tubular glue gets you high.
Carbon clincher wheels suffer from overheating on long descents, due to rim design. Carbon tubular wheels do not.
Tubular tyres from the likes of FMB or Dugast are works of art.

I don't in all honesty think that tubulars are just for racing, although they are better performing wheels, and as such lend themselves to racing quite readily. If I lived in a sunny climate with lots of big hills and lovely smooth roads, I would definitely ride tubulars every day. I ride them quite a lot in the summer in the UK as it is.


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> It's a bit less black and white actually.
> 
> Tubulars puncture less often than clinchers.
> They are lighter.
> ...


Off to get some tubulars lol


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> Off to get some tubulars lol


 
You should


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> You should


if i tried to buy another set of wheels for tubulars i may not live long enough to use them


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

The trick is to have so many wheelsets at home, that no-one notices an extra.


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> The trick is to have so many wheelsets at home, that no-one notices an extra.


i got 4 sets now - and i want another bike so i'm playing it cool at the moment


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

jowwy said:


> Off to get some tubulars lol





jowwy said:


> if i tried to buy another set of wheels for tubulars i may not live long enough to use them


 
I'm sort of the same.. I've got 3 new bikes this year and puhing my luck with new rims already...


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Boon 51 said:


> I'm sort of the same.. I've got 3 new bikes this year and puhing my luck with new rims already...


yeh i bought two new bikes - sold two old bikes and bought 2 sets of wheels - but i did have the all clear to by a canyon cyclocross for xmas, but said i would wait for now


----------



## Boon 51 (12 Dec 2013)

Looked at the merlin website and got this info, all my bikes have 30mm.. but not sure if it makes a lot of difference in real terms for cross wind.
Weight. Rims
1/ Shimano RS 81 C24 1573 and 24/24 @ €458
2/ Mavic Elite S 1520 and 22/25 @ €542
both good weight but unsure on the rim size for crosswind.
3/ Fulcrum 3 1555 and 24/30 @€434 could be OK
3/ Fulcrum Quattro 1710 and 35 @ €289
4/ RS81 C35 1689 and 35 @ €566
5/ Fulrum 1 1485 and 26/30 @ €711 could be OK
Has the bigger rims much benefit do you think.
All these have been mentioned in the thread.


----------



## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Anything up to 35 will not be too much of an issue in crosswinds and may even give you a minor aero benefit..


----------



## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

How about the Pro-Lite Bracciano's that everyone is raving about. They are very cheap from here.
And they did very well in this test here, if you care for such things.


----------



## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> How about the Pro-Lite Bracciano's that everyone is raving about. They are very cheap from here.
> And they did very well in this test here, if you care for such things.



I race on them ^^


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> How about the Pro-Lite Bracciano's that everyone is raving about. They are very cheap from here.
> And they did very well in this test here, if you care for such things.


only campag in stock


----------



## VamP (13 Dec 2013)

A Campag 10 speed cassette will work with Shimano or SRAM 10 speed set ups as well as anything else. I run a mixture of both hub types across my wheel sets and don't ever get any shifting issues. The one thing to not mix are shifters and derailleurs!


----------



## Boon 51 (13 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Anything up to 35 will not be too much of an issue in crosswinds and may even give you a minor aero benefit..


 
I thought the wheels on my old TCR 1 were small (perhaps 24mm) and it got a bit scary in the wind, even down right dangerous at times but with the slightly taller 30mm rims it seems OK, not helped of course by my weight of only 10st 7lbs (65kg)
The bigger rims seem to give me more confidence I have to say.


----------



## Boon 51 (13 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> How about the Pro-Lite Bracciano's that everyone is raving about. They are very cheap from here.
> And they did very well in this test here, if you care for such things.


 
Ok thanks I will look at the reviews later today after work..


----------



## Boon 51 (14 Dec 2013)

I did look at the Pro-Lite wheels and they did have a good write up but I'm going to stick to either Shimano or Fulcrum as I'm a scaredy cat.


----------



## Boon 51 (15 Dec 2013)

Winstanleys are doing Fulcrum 1's at £400 but they are 2009 models..


----------



## Boon 51 (15 Dec 2013)

Can you mix and match wheels ?
The reason I ask is, if I got a pair of Fulcrum 3's which run 24mm front and 30mm rear rims and I didn't like the front, could I buy another 30mm rim from another make and put that on the bike.


----------



## Dusty Bin (15 Dec 2013)

Yes, but you are over-thinking it. If you can detect a 6mm difference in rim depth, you need to turn pro...


----------



## Boon 51 (15 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Yes, but you are over-thinking it. If you can detect a 6mm difference in rim depth, you need to turn pro...


 
I might well be DB..  but I'm just thinking about how bad the wheel set was on my old road bike to the 30mm I run now?


----------



## Cyclist33 (8 Jan 2014)

Boon 51 said:


> I might well be DB..  but I'm just thinking about how bad the wheel set was on my old road bike to the 30mm I run now?





Boon 51 said:


> I might well be DB..  but I'm just thinking about how bad the wheel set was on my old road bike to the 30mm I run now?



You would need a control situation to make the comparison ie was it the same make and model of wheel with the shallower rim? Otherwise there could be any number of variables affecting the ride quality.

I always thought that the deeper the rim, the more the crosswind would take hold of it and the less stable, so your observation above that the deeper (30mm) rims were better in the wind seems odd. I can only posit that their extra weight keeps them on the road in a slightly more grounded way. In which case you might conclude that what you need at your weight and riding preference, is a shallow rim with more spokes, so that it would be heavy enough to ground the bike but shallow enough to provide some comfort..?

Just me's thoughts!


----------



## Boon 51 (9 Jan 2014)

Cyclist33 said:


> You would need a control situation to make the comparison ie was it the same make and model of wheel with the shallower rim? Otherwise there could be any number of variables affecting the ride quality.
> 
> I always thought that the deeper the rim, the more the crosswind would take hold of it and the less stable, so your observation above that the deeper (30mm) rims were better in the wind seems odd. I can only posit that their extra weight keeps them on the road in a slightly more grounded way. In which case you might conclude that what you need at your weight and riding preference, is a shallow rim with more spokes, so that it would be heavy enough to ground the bike but shallow enough to provide some comfort..?
> 
> Just me's thoughts!


 
Interesting thoughts indeed but I think that 30mm is not deemed that deep but just a bit better than 24mm, if I wanted 50 or 60mm I think that would be a bit over the top?

Another thought that has come to mind why this bike is better with 30mm wheels is perhaps nothing to do with the wheels and that is its an endurance bike so the geometry is slightly softer and that makes a bit of sense to it, but dont improve the weight of the wheels question.

Cheers.


----------



## VamP (9 Jan 2014)

Cyclist33 said:


> You would need a control situation to make the comparison ie was it the same make and model of wheel with the shallower rim? Otherwise there could be any number of variables affecting the ride quality.
> 
> I always thought that the deeper the rim, the more the crosswind would take hold of it and the less stable, so your observation above that the deeper (30mm) rims were better in the wind seems odd. I can only posit that their *extra weight keeps them on the road* in a slightly more grounded way. In which case you might conclude that what you need at your weight and riding preference, is a shallow rim with more spokes, so that it would be heavy enough to ground the bike but shallow enough to provide some comfort..?
> 
> Just me's thoughts!


 
Seriously?


----------



## Dusty Bin (9 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> Seriously?



yeah, cos obviously the bike would become airborne if the wheels were lighter...


----------



## VamP (9 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> yeah, cos obviously the bike would become airborne if the wheels were lighter...


 
Yeah I hate it when that happens.


----------



## Rob3rt (9 Jan 2014)

People say all sorts about wheels and crosswinds, so long as you aren't riding about with a 90mm deep rim on the front, in a gale (which will trouble pretty much anyone), I would generalise that it is 50:50 whether it will suit you or not, that 50% would end up coming down to how heavy you are, the wheel shape, whether you are a nervous rider etc.

Ask a tester about disc wheels, we ride them whatever the weather, if the wind is so bad you can't ride one, it is too bad to race! Similarly people told me trispokes are a handful in the wind (because the area changes dramatically when each of the 3 large spokes go behind the forks etc) yet I find my 60mm deep trispoke more stable in the wind than a 28mm rim!

i.e. unless you are doing something stupid like my 1st example, then you won't be able to go on what other people say re. winds and wheels IME.


----------



## VamP (9 Jan 2014)

I pretty much agree with that. If you think about it, the area taken up by even deep section wheels is tiny compared to rider profile. If you can ride without getting blown over, then you can ride deep wheels without getting blown over.


----------



## Cyclist33 (9 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> Seriously?



Irony and cyclists obviously don't go together.


----------



## VamP (9 Jan 2014)

My irony meter is usually pretty well calibrated, but having re-read your post again, I have to confirm that there are no irony indicators flashing anywhere. Maybe you are too subtle for me.


----------



## Cyclist33 (9 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> My irony meter is usually pretty well calibrated, but having re-read your post again, I have to confirm that there are no irony indicators flashing anywhere. Maybe you are too subtle for me.



i suppose so.


----------

