# New EBike report.......



## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

Some of you may have read my report a couple of months back on the Orbea Gain EBike, and it completely sold me on getting an Ebike going forward.
I'm at an age where I feel like treating myself, more for the Pain elimination of Hills than purely the Financial treat !

Cue much reading and deliberation, comparing and reviewing, and general pondering and debating with myself on the merits and possibilities..
The Orbea was pretty good, but only Alu framed (so far), and running the Ebikemotion system, which has an unremoveable battery in the downtube, and a Rear Hub Drive.
I wasnt totaly sold on that overall, as riding 'without' the battery was never going to be a possibility, so on with thoughts....

Wilier are also soon bringing out a beautiful looking bike too, with same system as above, so again, wasnt convinced.

The Giant Ebikes, whilst having a very powerful batter apparently, are rather 'ugly' imo, and I didnt consider them, the alternatives are just far more indistinguishable as Road Bikes.

So, we move on to the options using the Fazua Evation system....which offers the 3 Power levels, and all neatly comprised into the Downtube, in a removeable Battery & Motor pack.

The Cube Agree Hybrid was quite tempting, Ultegra, with Discs etc, and the 'cheaper' of their 2 options at £4500, in White, was quite a nice looking package, but something about it just didnt quite meet with my idea of what £4500 on a Bike might look like.
(Plus, I wasnt completely sure it offered the same 400watt Max output)

The other stand out was the Pinarello Nytro, a seriously sexy looking option, and with the Prestige that comes with the marque.
However, Dealers cried that demand was huge, and they perhaps wouldnt even be getting DEmo bikes in to try, or fit on etc, even the Bike Rooms in Manchester (Distributors apparently) were stating 2/3mths at best.....
Slane Cycles in Belfast, looked like they had some in stock, but after a call, that proved incorrect, but Andy there did offer to keep me posted as he was 'expecting' one in......

So my interest now focused on the Focus Project Y, and when exactly that may appear for Sale.
Much reading, much googling, and I decided that indeed, this looked the most likely candidate,
& same Power as the Pinarello.

Then, 2 things happened.......

1. Focus launched the Paralane2, the available version of the Project Y, presumably as they'd seen demand to be huge.
However, of the 4 options to be released soon, the most likely for me would have been their Ultegra version, but only in Blue or Black, and at £5500, so pretty much Pinarello priced, and in my opinion, didnt look quite as impressive for that dosh.

2. I get a call from Andy at Slane Cycles, saying that the Nytro they'd expected has indeed landed, and is in his hands, -......how tall was I ?
Cue much measuring and debating, sending of photos, comparing my Bikes geometry with the Nytro, etc etc etc...... really really helpful, I couldnt fault their assistance at all, fantastic.

So, I dived in, and the Bike arrived before the weekend.

Cue a long ride on Saturday, 65mls, with about 2700' of ups in the rolling East Yorks countyside, and I have to say the Nytro was fantasticly comfortable, even compared to my Roubaix.

The first 30miles I didnt even have the Battery/Motor on, as it was flat, but as we reached the climbs, the motor was a godsend for me, and achieved exactly what I wanted to, in reducing my HR.

125watts gives a gentle assist to the revolutions......
250watts helps you along with a noticeble rush.....
400watts is a massive help uphill, incredible.

You still have to pedal, so are still working out, but at a level thats far more comfortable for me at least.
Stop pedalling, Motor stops too, and anything over 15mph it wont work anyway.

Frequently, on similar rides, my HR gets to what I deem to be unadviseable levels of 170-180 with even easy effort uphill, and averages of 140+.
With a familiar history of Heart issues, and indeed some arrythmias myself, mostly alcohol induced, an Ebike seemed a sensible route to go for me.

In that, it completely succeeded, my average over the 65miles was 130bpm, with a Max of 160, and at no point did I feel that pounding in my chest that does concern me at my age.

I know others will scoff at the Ebike movement, and hats off to those that refuse to ever consider not 'pushing' themselves, but I aint one of them !
This Nytro simply allows me to ride with the others as fast uphill as well as down, and simply makes the ride more enjoyable for me.
With a half mile of my house, there are 2 steep climbs which we 'never' ride up, as they feature much too early in a ride before your even remotely warmed up. As they would be direct routes to some of the better stuff beyond, thats a shame, but with this Nytro, I can breeze up without an issue, meaning I'm more likely to ride more in actual fact, and vary my rides far more.

Yes, £6k is a lot of money, but I had the chance, and felt the need, so jumped in. I know its perhaps not an option for many, and my post isnt in any way meant to be a 'willy waving, I've got a Pinarello' kind of post, its purely an honest report on the road in my decision.

I feel sure the EBike movement is going to be massive, and I reckon in a years time, all the main contenders will have an Ebike in their range, I really do.

Thanks for reading.


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## Slick (19 Jun 2018)

I think you might be right.


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## Cycleops (19 Jun 2018)

I'm sure you're right .E-bikes will become increasingly popular.

How does law in NI affect you?


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## ColinJ (19 Jun 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I'm sure you're right .E-bikes will become increasingly popular.
> 
> How does law in NI affect you?


400 W actually exceeds the 250 W UK mainland power limit for e-bikes. That limit doesn't make much sense to me if a motor-boost speed limiter is fitted. A heavier rider might need the extra power to get to the same speed as a lighter rider. But still, AFAIK, that legal power limit exists. I have never heard of anyone having been stopped to have their bike's power output checked though ...


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

I'm in East Yorks, not NI.

AFAIK, the Law is only that Ebikes are limited to operation up to 25kph/15mph, and not Wattage. The Nytro, and all others I believe have sensors on them that cut out the Motor when you reach that speed. It did on mine. 
Thats fine for me, I dont want any assistance on the flat, or above 15mph, its only when Climbing that I want it.


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## welsh dragon (19 Jun 2018)

What a great write up. And there is certainly nothing wrong with E-bikes. If you have the money and want one no matter the reason then good luck to you.

I am glad you are enjoying your new aquisiition. May it give you great joy and pleasure for years to come.


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## roadrash (19 Jun 2018)

if it works for you then whats not to like, oh and we like photos , its the law...


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## youngoldbloke (19 Jun 2018)

Lovely! £6K _is_ a lot of money ...... I'm waiting for my Gain at the moment, I think the deciding factor was the (relatvely) low price. I'm sure you are right, there will be lots of road e-bikes available soon, but unless the prices are lower it will remain a somewhat niche market. Maybe as many buying them have health issues there should be an e-bike on prescription scheme - free of course to those over 65


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## Smokin Joe (19 Jun 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Lovely! £6K _is_ a lot of money ...... I'm waiting for my Gain at the moment, I think the deciding factor was the (relatvely) low price. I'm sure you are right, there will be lots of road e-bikes available soon, *but unless the prices are lower it will remain a somewhat niche market.* Maybe as many buying them have health issues there should be an e-bike on prescription scheme - free of course to those over 65


Like all relatively new technology prices will drop - and by quite a bit over time I would expect.


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## raleighnut (19 Jun 2018)

I fitted a 250W front motor to Maz's Dawes Geneva and it was that good I then fitted one to my Trike cost £500 each.


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## Pale Rider (19 Jun 2018)

ColinJ said:


> 400 W actually exceeds the 250 W UK mainland power limit for e-bikes. That limit doesn't make much sense to me if a motor-boost speed limiter is fitted. A heavier rider might need the extra power to get to the same speed as a lighter rider. But still, AFAIK, that legal power limit exists. I have never heard of anyone having been stopped to have their bike's power output checked though ...



Quoted power outputs on ebikes are something of a movable feast.

The nominal UK limit is 250W, but legal ebikes peak at a much higher output than that when the controller demands it.

General thinking is the peak for a legal motor is about 700W.

Which rather begs the question: What is a 250W motor for the purposes of the legislation?

The answer seems to be: Anything with a convincing looking 250W sticker on it.


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

roadrash said:


> if it works for you then whats not to like, oh and we like photos , its the law...



Of course, how rude of me !! This was before sent to me, with steerer cut with extra spacer, Stem changed to slightly shorter 100mm Carbon Most stem, Ultegra Pedals and Bottle cages etc.


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## ColinJ (19 Jun 2018)

Wow!


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

Oh, and again, a big up to Andy & Paul at Slanes' in Belfast, really helpful guys.

I'm debating whether the wheels would look better with all decals removed ?


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## confusedcyclist (19 Jun 2018)

Yes an authentic looking sticker probably would do the job for all but the most thorough investigations. My only, but major concern would be the aftermath or a serious collision, likely if litigation is involved and you are accused of driving a non-roadworthy motor vehicle without insurance, plates, indicators, helmet, license etc, it could backfire then. In theory you could lose your drivers license if you have one, it's a serious offence. Also, any compensation you receive could be reduced in accordance with contributory negligence resulting in the choice of motor/speed.

Really, the laws around e-bikes need to be reviewed, particularly high powered motors with speed limiters.


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Lovely! £6K _is_ a lot of money ...... I'm waiting for my Gain at the moment, I think the deciding factor was the (relatvely) low price. I'm sure you are right, there will be lots of road e-bikes available soon, but unless the prices are lower it will remain a somewhat niche market. Maybe as many buying them have health issues there should be an e-bike on prescription scheme - free of course to those over 65



I was impressed with the Gain, you'll have a blast tbh. And it IS the most reasonable entry to the concept of a 'road looking' Ebike.....


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

The Nytro isnt illegal - its just a European law that ALL Ebikes are limited to 25kpm Max assistance, and then the motor/assistance stops, and it does !
The Giant has a 500W battery I understand ......


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## Pale Rider (19 Jun 2018)

zak3737 said:


> The Nytro isnt illegal - its just a European law that ALL Ebikes are limited to 25kpm Max assistance, and then the motor/assistance stops, and it does !
> The Giant has a 500W battery I understand ......



Careful not to confuse battery capacity with motor rating.

The Giant battery is 500 watt hours.

That's a measure of capacity and there's no legal limit for that - you could have a bigger battery or carry two.

Motor ratings are in watts, the legal limit there is 250, but as I say, measuring the wattage of a motor is not straightforward.


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## roadrash (19 Jun 2018)

if it rides half as good as it looks then im not surprised your happy


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## zak3737 (19 Jun 2018)

I'd better just not use the top setting........


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## Smokin Joe (19 Jun 2018)

Great looking bike. Don't forget to take all the local Strava segments, making sure you scalp a few riders on the hills


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## fatjel (20 Jun 2018)

That is an awesome looking bike..


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## zak3737 (20 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Great looking bike. Don't forget to take all the local Strava segments, making sure you scalp a few riders on the hills



That'd be naughty wouldnt it........ but I aint a Strava warrior


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jun 2018)

zak3737 said:


> That'd be naughty wouldnt it........ but I aint a Strava warrior


Neither am I, but if I had an electric bike...


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## Serge (20 Jun 2018)

zak3737 said:


> Of course, how rude of me !! This was before sent to me, with steerer cut with extra spacer, Stem changed to slightly shorter 100mm Carbon Most stem, Ultegra Pedals and Bottle cages etc.
> View attachment 415028


That looks fantastic, wow!


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## the snail (20 Jun 2018)

zak3737 said:


> The Nytro isnt illegal - its just a European law that ALL Ebikes are limited to 25kpm Max assistance, and then the motor/assistance stops, and it does !
> The Giant has a 500W battery I understand ......


Isn't there an issue in NI with ebikes effectively classed as mopeds, needing insurance etc?


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## zak3737 (21 Jun 2018)

Thx for likes fella's, it is a super machine. I'm in the dog house big style with the Mrs......but I like to work on the basis that forgiveness is easier to get than permission !


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## stoatsngroats (23 Jun 2018)

That’s beautiful!
Too many £s for me, but I agree that this will become much more popular. My OH has a Cube e-My5, we’ve just been on the South Downs, which she would never have achieved without pedal assist. This has meant that we both get to enjoy these locations together, and I get a decent workout keeping up with her!
It’s horses for course, and whilst I sometimes think I need one, I won’t get one.... yet!


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## mgs315 (23 Jun 2018)

Stunning bike. I must say that if E-bikes allow people to enjoy cycling more then happy days right? More people on the road the better.


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## Nomadski (26 Jun 2018)

zak3737 said:


> Of course, how rude of me !! This was before sent to me, with steerer cut with extra spacer, Stem changed to slightly shorter 100mm Carbon Most stem, Ultegra Pedals and Bottle cages etc.
> View attachment 415028



That bike is damned beautiful.


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## zak3737 (23 Jul 2018)

Quick update : This really is a game changer for me, as the OP, I've now done some regular rides on some uphills locally that 1, I'd never seek out before, ....
or 2, Enjoy riding when I did !
Being able to ride up a lovely wooded valley, that gradually increases from 3/5%, to nearly 14% at its max, and being able to look around and actually enjoy the ride up is a revelation, it really is.
I know the purists will still scoff, and were I 30years younger, I would perhaps too, but now I just want to enjoy my ride, without the lung busting chest heaving grind that quite frankly, at 56, fills me with some trepidation of doing at any time.

Now I go out and ride, without ever thinking of the route I'm doing, and perhaps avoiding those climbs I hate doing, its fab.

I've been extravagant perhaps, getting the Pinarello, I admit, but boy do I love it, and lets be honest, we're only here once.
Bloody Game Changer for me fella's.


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## Serge (23 Jul 2018)

zak3737 said:


> Quick update : This really is a game changer for me, as the OP, I've now done some regular rides on some uphills locally that 1, I'd never seek out before, ....
> or 2, Enjoy riding when I did !
> Being able to ride up a lovely wooded valley, that gradually increases from 3/5%, to nearly 14% at its max, and being able to look around and actually enjoy the ride up is a revelation, it really is.
> I know the purists will still scoff, and were I 30years younger, I would perhaps too, but now I just want to enjoy my ride, without the lung busting chest heaving grind that quite frankly, at 56, fills me with some trepidation of doing at any time.
> ...


That's brilliant, I hope you have many, many more miles of enjoyment out of it.


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## roadrash (23 Jul 2018)

It really doesn't matter if anyone scoffs , if its right for you then that's all that matters,if anyone else has a problem with it then its exactly that,.. their problem


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## Hedgemonkey (24 Jul 2018)

I use mine for my commute in Derbyshire, it just means by the weekend I've still got the legs for a club ride on Sunday.


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## PaulSB (24 Jul 2018)

I’m 64 and fully expect to buy an eBike when the time arrives. For the moment I’ll just dream about owning a Pinarello

@zak3737 that is a very, very beautiful bike. Enjoy.


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## youngoldbloke (24 Jul 2018)

Lots more 'e-road' bikes on the way, but the Pinarello is probably the still best looking - 
https://road.cc/content/news/245536-5-cool-things-eurobike-2018-e-road-edition
- though I think the Orbea Gain is a strong contender, and more affordable. Orbea have announced their 2019 carbon framed versions recently too.


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## zak3737 (24 Jul 2018)

Thank you PaulSB, I'm certainly loving it.

@youngoldbloke...... The Orbea is a really good option for many, and the bike rides well as I found, the only reason I didnt go with it was primarily because the Fazua system allows the complete Motot & Battery to be removed, IF & when I want to ride without it, which the Ebikemotion system doesnt.
Whether thats an issue for many, I'm not sure, just swayed me.

The other 2 current contenders using the Fazua system, Cube & Focus, altho were less expensive, not 'that much' less, and certainly didnt look as outstanding as the PInarello, imo.

Incidentally, Wilier are also bringing out their lovely looking Centro1 Hybrid, again with the Ebikemotion system, beautiful bike @ 4500 Euros.


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## youngoldbloke (24 Jul 2018)

Another two using the Fazua system https://wisperbikes.com/wisper-works-eroad-bikes/ - good looking bikes again!


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## Pale Rider (24 Jul 2018)

Roadie-style ebikes are the latest ebike growth area.

When I started ebiking about six years ago, nearly all ebikes were hybrid/trekking style - flat bars, fully equipped with mudguards, rack, lights, etc.

The next phase was mountain bikes, usually with a crank drive motor.

Then came drop bar roadie ebikes, the Giant being one of the first to be generally available.

As observed, there are quite a few road ebikes now, with more on the way.


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## zak3737 (25 Jul 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Another two using the Fazua system https://wisperbikes.com/wisper-works-eroad-bikes/ - good looking bikes again!



They certainly are, I think the top version has certain Pinarello Nytro similarities 

Quite pricy again, £4300 for Alu version, up to £7700 for the Carbon.....


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## davids023 (3 Aug 2018)

zak3737 said:


> Quick update : This really is a game changer for me, as the OP, I've now done some regular rides on some uphills locally that 1, I'd never seek out before, ....
> or 2, Enjoy riding when I did !
> Being able to ride up a lovely wooded valley, that gradually increases from 3/5%, to nearly 14% at its max, and being able to look around and actually enjoy the ride up is a revelation, it really is.
> I know the purists will still scoff, and were I 30years younger, I would perhaps too, but now I just want to enjoy my ride, without the lung busting chest heaving grind that quite frankly, at 56, fills me with some trepidation of doing at any time.
> ...




After waiting a couple of months for my Gain to come in, I cancelled the order and picked up a Nytro. Really is a game changer, I have had knee and hip surgery and can no longer do hill climbs. Still requires alot of effort with the Nytro compared to my old mtb with the bosch cx motor, so still gives you a really good workout.
On the flats you can easily go over 25km/h where as my old mtb would be so heavy with the cx motor it is impossible to go over 25km/h and maintain the speed.
Can very easily also ride the bike with the motor completely off, and can also remove it completely. I believe fazua are releasing a cover next month if you do intend on riding the bike without the motor/battery.

in terms of street/road legal, the rated continuous power output power is 250w which in Australia anyway, is legal.


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## Jb34 (7 Aug 2018)

zak3737 said:


> Some of you may have read my report a couple of months back on the Orbea Gain EBike, and it completely sold me on getting an Ebike going forward.
> I'm at an age where I feel like treating myself, more for the Pain elimination of Hills than purely the Financial treat !
> 
> Cue much reading and deliberation, comparing and reviewing, and general pondering and debating with myself on the merits and possibilities..
> ...



Does anyone know if there is a way to remove the Nytro’s sensor so it doesn’t cut off at 25km/hr?


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## zak3737 (7 Aug 2018)

Jb34 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to remove the Nytro’s sensor so it doesn’t cut off at 25km/hr?



Well, I imagine removing the sensor on the rear spokes might do the trick, but not sure, havent tried it.

For me, I dont want that anyway, it isnt on the flat I bought the assistance for, just the hills I despise so much !


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## zak3737 (7 Aug 2018)

davids023 said:


> After waiting a couple of months for my Gain to come in, I cancelled the order and picked up a Nytro. Really is a game changer



Hope you love the bike as much as I do, its a beauty eh ? The Orbea was a nice bike, and theyre allegedly going to be producing a Carbon Framed verson next year too, but I wasnt sold on the Ebikemotion system, which wasnt removeable etc. Of the bikes using the Fazua system, Focus/Cube/Whisper, and a few others, I think all the prices are going to be up in the £4-6k range, so why I jumped onto the Nytro.
Enjoy.


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