# Downhill - Fixed v Free...



## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Thought you might want to have a laugh at me trying to keep up with my CB while he's on a freewheel and I'm on a fixed...


View: http://youtu.be/PPHVfxzK9oE?t=6s


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Over 6,000 miles on the bike and at last I get some good advice...thanks Dad...


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## gaz (8 Jan 2012)

I agree with lee. I would be out a lot more at that speed, especially on a country road where there is often a lot of debris on the side of the road.

I could never get on with fixed down hill, just never felt comfortable getting aero and pedalling and the aero position makes a big difference at higher speeds.


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Thanks for the advice but to be fair, it was the A25 which can be a busy road and when you're sat out, some motorist lose patience and pass when they perhaps shouldn't and let's be honest, any fall at 30+ MPH is going to hurt no matter what bike. Riding fixed certainly helps you appreciate control and surroundings that's for sure and as for aero, why would you even try that on a fixed?! Of course aero is quicker but for me, the benefits of fixed outweigh the negatives...happy cycling!


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## Norm (8 Jan 2012)

I was laughing my donkey off during that video, Farky. The camera was bobbing, your legs were pumping away, heavy breathing and all the time, the chap in front disappearing into the distance without pedalling. 

Gaz has it right, saying that he would be out a lot more. We should all ride where we like and where we feel comfortable, not where others tell us to ride, be they drivers telling us to move in to the left or cyclists telling us to move out to the right. IMO.


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## Bicycle (8 Jan 2012)

[QUOTE 1672249, member: 3143"]Cool, but at that speed you should really be out more. If you have a close pass then any flinching will result in you or your mate ending up in the hedge[/quote]

I'm just back from a fixed-gear spin with my boys (who have gears). I saw this and laughed. A *lovely bit of film* and it captures the _'spinning out of control'_ feeling you get from whipping a fixie down a hill. I bet it was even more fun actually filming it. 

I ride a 69" fixie in and around the Malvern Hills, so I'm often in that _'invisible legs_' spin.

From the shots showing the front wheel, I'd say your road position is *spot on.* That's where I tell my kids to be on fast descents on single-carriageway NSL roads... And it's where I ride while I'm trying to keep up with them on my fixopholous.

I know the A25 as a motorcylcist, but have vever pedalled on it. A lovely, sweeping piece of tarmac. Nice piece of film Farky.


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Thanks bicycle!! Glad someone understands the joy!!


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Oh look, different bike, different road, different conditions, different line, different friend but same point!! This time I bet I get a telling off for hogging the road and getting too close to my pal...


View: http://youtu.be/qCS0EaqirXo


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

we should start a survey on who thinks User3143 is a scout leader (or even brown owl)!!


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

but posting such advice on a forum where I invite you to laugh at me is another matter! I appreciate the 'advice' but the reason I decided to 'take the piss' is because of the fact you viewed the video and decided to give it. Have you been out yet this year Lee or are you still planning your year and carrying out a shed load of risk assessments? It's late, go to bed and be fresh in the morning!


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

[QUOTE 1672856, member: 3143"]WTF? It's advice. Going down a hill at speed only inches from a hedge with a double bold line is potentially inviting trouble. You want to take the piss, then ok, but don'[t post a vid up there about a close pass and you going through a hedge head first - because I'll laugh...loads.

Edit: Looking at your other vids you need all the help you can get.

Little bit of advice:

If you can keep up with the flow of traffic, then you can move over and not remain in the door zone.[/quote]

Get yourself out, maybe buy some milk!


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Hey Lee, is it true that every time you chat to the ladies, you have to hit the enter/return key?


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## Nantmor (8 Jan 2012)

From speed and gear size its easy to work out cadence. I've heard tell of 200 rpm. I once approached 30 mph on a 64" gear which if I remember correctly is 175rpm. Any more figures would be interesting to know. So, what's your max.?


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

Nantmor said:


> From speed and gear size its easy to work out cadence. I've heard tell of 200 rpm. I once approached 30 mph on a 64" gear which if I remember correctly is 175rpm. Any more figures would be interesting to know. So, what's your max.?



Like bicycle, I'm also running 69" and according to Garmin, I had a max of 35.4 MPH and 173 RPM on that ride. I shall check others and keep you posted...


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## Farky (8 Jan 2012)

It seems I have a 36.9 MPH and a 178 RPM on a sportive I did in the Lake District.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/115272966


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## zizou (8 Jan 2012)

I liked the videos, not sure i could mange 173 RPM for any length of time!

As for positioning, it is easy to say where is 'ideal' watching a video but that doesn't take account of local conditions (like the road surface, prevailing wind, experience of what drivers are like on a particular bit of road and things like that) things which you get to known if you are a regular on certain stretches of road. The descents i do most regularly i dont take what would be the textbook line down any of them - i know the bits that have cut up tarmac, the bits with loose stones, one bit has a pothole hidden because it has been painted over by the SLOW sign, i know which bit can be dodgy with run off from the field, i know the corners that oncoming cars often cut when they are speeding and so on. It is a bit harsh to be toojudgemental on road positioning unless you know the roads in question IMO


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## just jim (8 Jan 2012)

Any closer to that hedge and your going to get scratched to bits. Sorry I can't get all misty eyed about your vid, but you could be a bit more assertive and claim more road space. And you could increase your gear inches a bit and get more out of your training runs rather than spinning out. Fixed is the best way and you know it. You post something up on a chat forum and you are bound to invite opinions not always sympathetic.


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## Farky (9 Jan 2012)

just jim said:


> Any closer to that hedge and your going to get scratched to bits. Sorry I can't get all misty eyed about your vid, but you could be a bit more assertive and claim more road space.



Like I did in the second video where I needed to?




just jim said:


> And you could increase your gear inches a bit and get more out of your training runs rather than spinning out.



Why not, and then I can just ride down hill all the time!! With all due respect, I've managed some big hills with 69 gear inches and I'd rather climb them than decend down them quickly!



just jim said:


> You post something up on a chat forum and you are bound to invite opinions not always sympathetic.



And sometimes not worth voicing!!


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## totallyfixed (9 Jan 2012)

Good vid, if you are on fixed you can't be doing much wrong , as for road positioning, assuming you are an experienced rider, only you can know the best line to take. As zizou says, too many factors we can't see or be aware of, on fixed [which is most of the time] I am much more aware of road surfaces as at high speeds a fixed is that bit harder to control. Gearing is a personal choice and again will depend on many different factors.
Just completed 26,000 miles on my fixed and my highest speed to date is 44.15mph [according to http://www.machars.net/1-bikecalc.htm] this works out at 201.6rpm, needless to say will not be doing that again.


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## smutchin (9 Jan 2012)

Lovely vid! Definitely made me laugh.

I find those long, gentle descents the worst - sustaining a high-ish cadence for a few minutes is harder than hitting a very high cadence for a short burst.

There's a short, steep hill I go down quite often where I've hit ~190rpm (~60km/h) a few times, but I'm only ever at that speed for a few seconds at most. There's another long descent I go down occasionally that's more like the one in the video - not nearly as fast but when you're on fixed, it feels like it goes on forever. I've been hit with cramp a couple of times on that descent.

d.


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## smutchin (9 Jan 2012)

just jim said:


> And you could increase your gear inches a bit and get more out of your training runs rather than spinning out.


 
Surely the ideal gear depends on the overall route, not just a short section of it? My general-purpose gear is about 65". Sure, it's a bit spinny on the descents but it's also much easier on the climbs. And at 90rpm, I'm doing about 28km/h, which is a comfortable cruising speed on the flat.

Granted, I'm not the strongest or fastest rider though, so what suits me may well be on the low side for you.

d.


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## totallyfixed (9 Jan 2012)

Oh, and the other thing non fixed riders don't realise is that a comfy saddle is essential especially at high revs for long periods.


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## Bicycle (9 Jan 2012)

just jim said:


> And you could increase your gear inches a bit and *get more out of your training runs* rather than spinning out.


 
This is an unusual post. One of the joys of riding fixed is the gearing compromise. 69" (as used by the OP) is a fab set-up for rolling hills. I'm really not sure how upping the gearing would allow him to get more out of his training runs. He clearly gets a lot out of them. Raising the final-drive ratio on a Ferrari might give some improvement in fuel economy, but that's not really what it's all about. I imagine the OP has given the matter of gear inches some thought and has settled on 69". 



gaz said:


> I could never get on with fixed down hill, just never felt comfortable *getting aero* and pedalling and the aero position *makes a big difference at higher speeds*.


 
This is interesting. I use my fixopholous just for training and for blatting around on, so _'getting aero'_ isn't something I think about.

With my relative paucity of skill, fitness and courage, there is a degree of compromise needed when descending at speed on fixed. At anything over 30 mph, aero would be the last thing on my mind. I fold myself up just a little, get the front wheel tracking like a laser and then expend most of my energy praying that my legs don't seize.

The benefits of _'getting aero'_ are manifest, but may not be pertinent when the object at hand is fast descent on a fixie. Even with quite tall gearing on a fixie, it is unlikely that an aero tuck will add much speed. By the time you're doing about 34 mph, speed tends to be limited by the looseness/flexibility of your lower limbs. Although people do ride massive gear inches on fixed, they tend (for obvious reasons) not to be climbing the bastard ascents that give the brain-out adrenalin rush on descents. 

For fixed descents, I'd ignore difference made by aero tucks and just enjoy the terror.


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## Ian H (9 Jan 2012)

I used to ride 43x17 (nominal 68) but have gone down to 43x18. Highest ever cadence was about 220rpm, but I'm not sure I could do that now. It certainly teaches you to pedal smoothly. Keeping a high cadence going for more than a few minutes is challenging.


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## smutchin (9 Jan 2012)

Agreed, getting in a tuck on a descent is pointless on fixed. And really uncomfortable. Fast descents make me very glad I have cross-top brake levers on my fixie.

I do sometimes find I benefit from a tuck position on the flat though, especially with a headwind.

d.


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## 2old2care (9 Jan 2012)

Nice vid, what bike have you got? as I'm considering getting a fixed gear bike, but can't decide which one, maybe even a Ti frame.


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## al-fresco (10 Jan 2012)

Enjoyed the video!  As regards gearing I'm an old bloke living on the edge of Wales and I find the standard Langster 69 inches just about spot on. My fitness/hill climbing has shown a big improvement.


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## Farky (11 Jan 2012)

2old2care said:


> Nice vid, what bike have you got? as I'm considering getting a fixed gear bike, but can't decide which one, maybe even a Ti frame.



I'm on a 2009 Langster with some Halo rims and a few other minor changes (Ultegra front brake and so on). So far, it's been a good bike and is proving very difficult to replace.


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## lukesdad (11 Jan 2012)

Enjoyed that.


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## ianrauk (11 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Enjoyed that.


 

Indeed.. looked very good fun.


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## goody (12 Jan 2012)

Think I would have turned right at the start of the vid for a cuppa. There's some nice looking women at that tea stop.


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## pubrunner (13 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Enjoyed that.


 
Yes, a great video . . . . . . . if it were me, my brake blocks wouldn't last long; nor the soles of my shoes ! 



al-fresco said:


> . . . . . . . *I'm an old bloke* living on the edge of Wales . . . . . . .


 
What a load of tosh ! 

. . . Al-Fresco is barely on the cusp of 'middle-aged'.


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## pubrunner (13 Jan 2012)

goody said:


> Think I would have turned right at the start of the vid for a cuppa. *There's some nice looking women at that tea stop.*


 
Yeah, Farky has no sense of getting his priorities right.


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## just jim (15 Jan 2012)

Bicycle said:


> This is an unusual post. One of the joys of riding fixed is the gearing compromise. 69" (as used by the OP) is a fab set-up for rolling hills. I'm really not sure how upping the gearing would allow him to get more out of his training runs. He clearly gets a lot out of them. Raising the final-drive ratio on a Ferrari might give some improvement in fuel economy, but that's not really what it's all about. I imagine the OP has given the matter of gear inches some thought and has settled on 69".


 
This is a typically verbose reply to a simple point - train harder. What the heck has a Ferrari got to do with it?


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## Cheradenine (16 Jan 2012)

For "gently rolling" hills I would hazard a guess that 69" is a tad on the low/twiddly side for a fit cyclist who like to keep a good pace.


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## Bicycle (17 Jan 2012)

just jim said:


> This is a typically verbose reply to a simple point - train harder. What the heck has a Ferrari got to do with it?


 
I am a wordy bastard. Almost all my posts are verbose. I was questioning your view that changing the gear inches would allow the OP to train harder. A lot of people who ride fixed-gear do not equate gear inches and the ability to train harder. There are other bicycles if it's big gear-inches you want. 

What has Ferrari got to do with it? You sound just like Lance, Tyler, Cadel, Floyd and Vino....

Pfff.... What has Ferrari got to do with it indeed....


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## Ashtrayhead (18 Jan 2012)

What hill was that? I want a go!!


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## just jim (28 Jan 2012)

Bicycle said:


> I am a wordy bastard. Almost all my posts are verbose. I was questioning your view that changing the gear inches would allow the OP to train harder. A lot of people who ride fixed-gear do not equate gear inches and the ability to train harder. There are other bicycles if it's big gear-inches you want.
> 
> What has Ferrari got to do with it? You sound just like Lance, Tyler, Cadel, Floyd and Vino....
> 
> Pfff.... What has Ferrari got to do with it indeed....


I am not equating gear inches with training harder. Riding fixed (as you appear to know well)
gives one the chance within a limited budget to experiment with gearing. The chances are as one rides longer and faster, one may wish to up the ante a bit. And I emphasise "a bit" as I originally said. I do not appreciate nor understand the facetious Lance/ Tyler comment. As for the Ferrari you are welcome to it.


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