# Warning signs on lorry



## furball (24 Jun 2019)

Following a lorry this afternoon and noticed two big yellow signs on the back. The one on the right hand side had a big black arrow pointing to the right and the words 'pass this side'. On the left side there was a big black arrow pointing to the left and the word 'suicide'.
I thought this was a more effective way of getting a serious message across than a lot of the more official signs.


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## gbb (24 Jun 2019)

A funny (or not so funny) thing occured to me a few years ago when my son had his scooter. He's never driven a car btw. He's an ok person, not thick, but as we were sitting in my car one day behind a lorry he saw some similar signage on it and asked me why that was there.
I explained a lorry driver in particular cant see you a lot of the time and it's a monumental risk to squeeze up the Inside, especially if it's at a left turn.

He looked shocked...I never knew, it just never even occured to me...he said. He went on to explain how hed nearly got caught out doing exactly that.

Hed never driven, why would he know ?


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## Globalti (24 Jun 2019)

The other one you sometimes see is:

Overtakers >>>>>>>

<<<<<<<< Undertakers


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## Bianchi boy (24 Jun 2019)

I once heard that cyclists were putting additional stickers saying " Because i can`t drive" under the signs on the back of vans and lorries , where their signage said " Beware of passing this vehicle on the left hand side", .


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## Slick (24 Jun 2019)

I'm sure that most of us has noticed those signs at one time or another, but in all honesty they have always annoyed me slightly as I've always thought it looked like a bit of a cop out for drivers and company owners not to take responsibility for their acts or omissions. I don't think for a single second that we should be able to filter up the side of a left turning truck but I got a minor when sitting my LGV test when pulling away in a straight line at a junction when a cyclist was nearby. The guy reckoned it was a bigger error when I told him that I saw the cyclist and pulled away anyway. I do think there is much more that can be done to protect cyclists from those trucks and I would much prefer to see more of them utilised in trucks operating in a buy city centre for example, or even completely redesigning some of the worst junctions. There was a young female killed round here recently and I can't help but think that it could have so easily been avoided.


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## Slick (24 Jun 2019)

Bianchi boy said:


> I once heard that cyclists were putting additional stickers saying " Because i can`t drive" under the signs on the back of vans and lorries , where their signage said " Beware of passing this vehicle on the left hand side", .


Brilliant. I love that.


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## Globalti (24 Jun 2019)

Stupid ignorant thing to say about truck drivers. Those cyclists need to try driving a truck, then they'd understand.


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## Supersuperleeds (24 Jun 2019)

I learnt as a school kid not to go down the inside of a lorry.

Dual carriageway and the lorry is straddling the lanes. Left lane for left, right lane for straight on. I go down the inside and he starts turning left. Luckily for me I bounced off his side, stayed up right and jumped onto the path out of the way


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## mjr (24 Jun 2019)

I agree with @Slick. Such signs are a disgusting bottom covering cop out and contradict the Highway Code and the law. Use of anything more than "be cautious passing on the left when left indicator flashes" should be subject to a fine.

And most of the problems I've had being on the left side of large vehicles is when they overtake me on the approach to a junction, including a couple of coaches where I'd tried to take the lane and they just used the oncoming lane too!  I strongly suspect a lot of the "undertaking" accusations are because squished riders don't talk.


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## classic33 (24 Jun 2019)

It's a sad sign of the times, when other road users in/on vehicles need reminding not to pass up the inside of a longer, heavier vehicle.


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## Profpointy (24 Jun 2019)

Globalti said:


> Stupid ignorant thing to say about truck drivers. Those cyclists need to try driving a truck, then they'd understand.



Whilst that's all very well I've had two very near misses where trucks have partly overtaken me then pulled in whilst beside me. I was about 12 the first time on a raleigh shopper so not exactly zooming along but a 38 ton artic decided to pull in and stop beside me and I managed to jump onto the pavement to avoid getting crushed. In my 50s a jewson lorry towing a digger forgot about his trailer - kinell that one was close


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## Moodyman (24 Jun 2019)

I think it's a bit disingenuous blaming truck companies for those signs. If I recall, this came about during Boris' tenure due to the relatively high number of fatalities involving left turning trucks. 

The signs were brought in due to the pressure from cycling groups to raise awareness and to encourage drivers to be more cautious.


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## snorri (24 Jun 2019)

We need fewer LGVs in built up areas, particulary at times of high volumes of pedestrian and cycle traffic.


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## classic33 (25 Jun 2019)

One of the earlier mentions of such stickers.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/time-for-action.33466/

They've been mentioned a few times now.


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## MichaelW2 (25 Jun 2019)

Profpointy said:


> In my 50s a jewson lorry towing a digger forgot about his trailer - kinell that one was close



Trailers are the stuff of nightmares, esp when towed by transit vans. They are often wider than the vehicle. There is always the temptation to tuck into the curb when being overtaken and pull out to the primary position after the vehicle has passed. Don't do this with a towed trailer overtake.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

I commuted in London for 5 years and learned pretty pronto not to come down the left side of lorries or busses. Or any vehicle that looked like they were a risk for that matter. Particularly left turning ones. It was my choice to eliminate that risk. Forget what the HC ‘ADVISES’. (Obviously different if they overtake you and turn left then your control of the situation tips the wrong way)

Recently I saw a lorry with an LED sign on the back/left saying ‘Do not pass down the left’. When indicating left, this flashed and was very visible. I liked it. 

I’m not really bothered about the out of date guff in the HC or the political stalemate between cyclists and lorry designers, I just want to get round unharmed. Rather than whinge about victim blaming or the exact wording that should or should not be on the back of lorries, I prefer to put more of the onus on myself to make the best of the rubbish infrastructure and rules and keep myself as safe as I can.

People moan about our nanny state, but actually those same people want to be babied and wrapped up in cotton wool. That doesn’t work for me.


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## Jody (25 Jun 2019)

Slick said:


> I'm sure that most of us has noticed those signs at one time or another, but in all honesty they have always annoyed me slightly as I've always thought it looked like a bit of a cop out for drivers and company owners not to take responsibility for their acts or omissions.



Our local council sticks them on all their vehicles. I can appreciate putting them on larger HGV's due to visibility but putting them on Transit Connects and Peugeot Bippers takes the p*ss. It's a massive cop out.


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## snorri (25 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> People moan about our nanny state, but actually those same people want to be babied and wrapped up in cotton wool. That doesn’t work for me.


Your post depicts you as something of a macho male well able to look after yourself, but should we not be ensuring the safety of the less confident, the inexperienced, the younger members of society?
Vulnerable road users are exposed to risks and dangers they would never be required to deal with in industrial employment situations.


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## Slick (25 Jun 2019)

Jody said:


> Our local council sticks them on all their vehicles. I can appreciate putting them on larger HGV's due to visibility but putting them on Transit Connects and Peugeot Bippers takes the p*ss. It's a massive cop out.


Yeah, I've seen the same round here as well. I liked the idea of a prefix sticker saying "Because I can't drive".


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## Globalti (25 Jun 2019)

Wrong. If anything the additional sign should say: "Because I can't see you if you sneak up very close to my cab out of range of my mirrors". Have a look at this video and you'll realise how stupid that suggestion sounds:


View: https://youtu.be/lV-rhiGRFTE


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

snorri said:


> Your post depicts you as something of a macho male well able to look after yourself, but should we not be ensuring the safety of the less confident, the inexperienced, the younger members of society?
> Vulnerable road users are exposed to risks and dangers they would never be required to deal with in industrial employment situations.



I agree with most of what you say except the macho bit. That to me is a criticism on my personality rather than the issue in the OP. In fact your comment couldn’t be further from the make up of my persona. I am independent on many levels I’ll give you that. But not macho.

I have cycled and toured with both daughters (9 and 17) all over the U.K. and parts of Europe. I do the school run daily with my youngest. Ensuring the safety of the young and inexperienced is what I have done for years on a daily basis.

All 3 of us have a lot of miles under our belt including U.K.’s abysmal infrastructure, and as a litmus, the Dutch cycling utopia. We assume nobody else around us will take responsibility for our safety, so we ALL look after ourselves.

I have the experience of being hit by cars on 3 occasions. If you want hard numbers, I trust exactly ZERO other road users.

As for exposing vulnerable road users to risks and dangers to situations that wouldn’t exist in employment or industry: That is correct here in the U.K. but that doesn’t happen in the NL. Simply because our infrastructure is shockingly inappropriate. If you haven’t been already, I highly recommend a trip to the Netherlands and you will appreciate where I am coming from.

I am saying all of this because people on forums seem to say what they think and what they have read and write it down as their own ‘real life experience’. And actually they haven’t ever experienced it in the first place. I have many years, many kilometres and many varied situations and countries to mould the way I choose to ride and the way I teach my children to ride.

Machoism doesn’t come into it.


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## classic33 (25 Jun 2019)

Jody said:


> Our local council sticks them on all their vehicles. I can appreciate putting them on larger HGV's due to visibility but putting them on Transit Connects and Peugeot Bippers takes the p*ss. It's a massive cop out.


Sounds similar to the local council approach. Explained by one driver as "no-one decides what size vehicle they go on/requires them. Every vehicle in the fleet gets one."


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## mjr (25 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I am saying all of this because people on forums seem to say what they think and what they have read and write it down as their own ‘real life experience’. And actually they haven’t ever experienced it in the first place. I have many years, many kilometres and many varied situations and countries to mould the way I choose to ride and the way I teach my children to ride.


Irony overload! Claiming people on forums are liars making shoot up, based on nothing except suspicion AFAICT, and then professing to be an honest person on a forum...

That's a rather dodgy footing for discussions, but an excellent way to dismiss all dissenting views (because they're posted by liars who never had those experiences) and keep one's opinion regardless.


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## mjr (25 Jun 2019)

Moodyman said:


> I think it's a bit disingenuous blaming truck companies for those signs. If I recall, this came about during Boris' tenure due to the relatively high number of fatalities involving left turning trucks.
> 
> The signs were brought in due to the pressure from cycling groups to raise awareness and to encourage drivers to be more cautious.


Or was it that the signs were brought in as a way to pervert the pressure from cycling groups to educate drivers into a blame-shifting campaign?

It smells like a bigger more ambitious institutional version of that Cambridge busway crash driver blaming non-existant cyclists for getting in his way, rather than trying to take the connection too fast.


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## classic33 (25 Jun 2019)

The stickers, in one form or another, were on local HGV's in early 2003. Royal Mail lorries had them as early as 2002.

First started attaching them in 2008. Again, locally. Arriva seem to be against using them.

A regular sight from 2004 on. Usually seen when travelling to work.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> Irony overload! Claiming people on forums are liars making shoot up, based on nothing except suspicion AFAICT, and then professing to be an honest person on a forum...
> 
> That's a rather dodgy footing for discussions, but an excellent way to dismiss all dissenting views (because they're posted by liars who never had those experiences) and keep one's opinion regardless.



That’s quite funny because I said nothing of the sort. Or insinuated it. Touché.


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## bladderhead (25 Jun 2019)

That Globalti video was scary. Thank F they all had lids.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

bladderhead said:


> That Globalti video was scary. Thank F they all had lids.



 Absolutely. The only guarantee for your survival under the wheels of a 10 ton lorry.


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## snorri (25 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I agree with most of what you say except the macho bit. That to me is a criticism on my personality rather than the issue in the OP.


I wish to withdraw the word macho and apologise, confident would have been a better word, I perhaps misinterpreted the final sentence in your post. 
Regarding the rest of your response, I find I can agree with everything you say, I have extensive experience of cycling in NL and other European countries and am frequently in despair regarding conditions for cyclists in the UK.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

snorri said:


> I wish to withdraw the word macho and apologise, confident would have been a better word, I perhaps misinterpreted the final sentence in your post.
> Regarding the rest of your response, I find I can agree with everything you say, I have extensive experience of cycling in NL and other European countries and am frequently in despair regarding conditions for cyclists in the UK.



This gesture puts you very high up in my estimation. No hard feelings intended. I am not perfect.

Forums can be a bit of an unintentional swamp of misinterpretation sometimes


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## Richard A Thackeray (25 Jun 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I learnt as a school kid not to go down the inside of a lorry.
> 
> Dual carriageway and the lorry is straddling the lanes. Left lane for left, right lane for straight on. I go down the inside and he starts turning left. Luckily for me I bounced off his side, stayed up right and jumped onto the path out of the way


40, or so, years ago, I saw a similar thing happen

It was in Outwood (between Wakefield & Leeds, on the A61), & when they were starting to build the big housing estate on (what was) Humphreys market Gardeners land
I still remember that it was a Magirus-Deutz bonneted, 6x4, tipper 
**who remembers those??, they were fairly common-place in the late 70s/early 80s (as were FIAT trucks)

The M-D indicated left, to turn into, what was the old entrance to Folly Hall Farm, but pulled to the right first
A car driver decided that the truck was actually going right into Edwards Drive

Cue one very stuck car, & a folded wing on the M-D

Since that day (& I was maybe 13??) I decided never to go anywhere near that position, on 2-wheels, or when I was on 4


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## Phil Fouracre (25 Jun 2019)

Interesting. Have a very similar story, 50 years ago. Articulated lorry indicating left, swung out wide to the right, Ford Cortina Mk1! Shot up the inside, ended up wrapped around the traffic lights!!


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