# Stage 15 **SPOILER**



## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Nearly 50km gone already and a bunch of climbers are just off the front. Pellizotti is looking to strengthen his mountains classification lead and has already taken the first 2 cols...but Martinez is sitting in with him.

Surely Nocentini will lose yellow tonight, but who else will crack?


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## HLaB (19 Jul 2009)

What channel are you watching on?


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

I'm going for Pellizotte today.

Armstrong has promised fireworks, and what he says goes obviously, but I'm not sure I see it that way. I'd like to think someone will try something but I'm just not convinced it will happen. If they don't, unless Contador decides to make a statement, then I really don't see much change in order... maybe Contador to take yellow though.

I'm desperately hoping Wiggins can stay up there in the GC.


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## scook94 (19 Jul 2009)

Until the live coverage on ITV4

http://gaps.letour.fr/us.html


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## marinyork (19 Jul 2009)

Hoping for something. Other than some very good (or pleasing) breakaways on flat stages very little has happened. Apart from the Green Jersey which has now been spoiled by the tantrums of the two fighting for it.


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## User269 (19 Jul 2009)

Numerous ways to see realtime news, my favourite being http://www.letour.com/us/homepage_courseTDF.html

Then, for ITV fans it's on at 2pm, Eurosport at 2.45 (or knowing eurosport, anytime between about 1.40 and 3.20. Or not at all if the fancy takes them).

Lance says fireworks, Contador says it's not hard enough, with the final climb only being 8.4K, and too easy to make a big change in the GC!


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-tour-de-france.html

try this ^^^


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

User269 said:


> Contador says it's not hard enough



Yep, that's why I'm being a miserable, cynical old scroat and saying there'll be little change.


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## HLaB (19 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-tour-de-france.html
> 
> try this ^^^


Cheers All


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## User269 (19 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-tour-de-france.html
> 
> try this ^^^




Bloody Hell! Free live TdF coverage on t'internet!


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## User269 (19 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> Yep, that's why I'm being a miserable, cynical old scroat and saying there'll be little change.



I think the route planners may have shot themselves in the foot here. I know they wanted to stop it looking as if the winner was decided by the first week, but compared with the tour so far, I preferred seeing Indurain, Armstrong, whoever, in the lead and then having to defend themselves to the end......it was exciting! If it all rests on Mont Ventoux, then that will certainly be exciting, but I wanted more than one such day in the tour!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

I'm watching live on French tele and that internet coverage ^^ is only around 8 seconds behind.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2009)

User269 said:


> I think the route planners may have shot themselves in the foot here. I know they wanted to stop it looking as if the winner was decided by the first week, but compared with the tour so far, I preferred seeing Indurain, Armstrong, whoever, in the lead and then having to defend themselves to the end......it was exciting! If it all rests on Mont Ventoux, then that will certainly be exciting, but I wanted more than one such day in the tour!



I think it's been a great Tour so far. When Indurain was riding it was dull, dull, dull.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Not sure if it's been posted yet but just in case someone doesn't know, Boonen didn't start this morning. Runny bottom it would seem.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-flash-tom-boonen-out-of-tour-de-france


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

Armstrong sitting near the back of the chasing peleton with the rest of the Astana boys at the front setting the pace.

Odd?

I'd have thought the safest place for him would be with his team at or near the front.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

perhaps they're planning the fireworks display...


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## cisamcgu (19 Jul 2009)

Is it just me (or vigin cable) but ITV4's picture is dreadful when compared to Eurosport. Does anyone else see this ?

Andrew


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

looks like something could be brewing, someone getting close to the touch paper?


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

nice to see some other teams up front but Milram?


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## Steve Austin (19 Jul 2009)

I'm getting fed up with all the adverts on ITV4!!

but at least they haven't got erm Sean errr Kelly erm commentating


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

Steve Austin said:


> I'm getting fed up with all the adverts on ITV4!!
> 
> but at least they haven't got erm Sean errr Kelly erm commentating



I like Kelly - listen to what he's saying


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

go on Bradley my son!!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

this is getting good! saxo & garmin pushing it


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

Go Wiggo!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Spilak's gone


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

note to organisers : this is what happens when you have mountain top finishes. Exciting races.


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

here comes the Astana fireworks?


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Nocenti cracked


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Sastre gone!


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## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Wooo! The touchpaper has been lit.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Contador goes!


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## Steve Austin (19 Jul 2009)

contador shoots off the front!


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

hells teeth, that was some acceleration.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

He's left them! Go Bertie!!!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Andy Schleck has got 25" on Armstrong


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## Young Un (19 Jul 2009)

Bugger, Contador has gone I don't like Astana


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## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Sastre pulls himself back into the lead group!!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Sastre back with Armstrong's group


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Wiggins still in the group, Vande Velde dropped


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## Young Un (19 Jul 2009)

Wiggins has accelerated!


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

bradders attacks!! GOOOOOO!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Wiggins attacks!!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Frank Schleck attacks!


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## Young Un (19 Jul 2009)

Young Un said:


> Wiggins has accelerated!



Damn didn't work!


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

Bugger! Wiggins losing touch with the chase group


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

scrap that!!! he's pulled away from the Armstrong group


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## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Go Brad!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Sastre leaves Armstrong, LA left with Kloeden


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

Wiggins could go 2nd tonight, unless i'm getting over excited????


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## Cathryn (19 Jul 2009)

This is awesome today!!! Contador's stunning.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Who is the ****ing leader now Astana!!


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Whoooosh! THAT was worth watching!


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## Halfmanhalfbike (19 Jul 2009)

Ventoux is going to be a bust. This is the stage that counted!

Wiggo was unbelievable...............and he's 3rd


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## montage (19 Jul 2009)

WOW Wiggins......

outstanding performance


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## montage (19 Jul 2009)

Not sure I like Contador...


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

Awesome stage.

Amazing acceleration by Berti.

Great fightback by Sastre.

Fantastic climb by Brad. Upto 3rd in GC!!


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## Cathryn (19 Jul 2009)

Blown away today...SO proud of Wiggins!!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2009)

Now who was saying this wouldn't make any difference?

Awesome by Contador... and Wiggins into 3rd. Everyone else all over the hill...


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

They're just re-showing the moment when Contador rode away - it was simply incredible. He just rode off... nobody could touch him! 

Wiggins 3rd in the GC at 1'46"


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## magnatom (19 Jul 2009)

Managed to catch the end of the stage on ITV4 online. Wow! That was some climbing! 

That crowd though was pretty terrible!


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

Armstrong finally put in his place, hopefully he'll be a tad embarrassed now!


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> Armstrong finally put in his place, hopefully he'll be a tad embarrassed now!



.... or humble even!


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## Cathryn (19 Jul 2009)

I wish I could climb like that ;(


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

nice touch by kloden at the end, leaving Lance to crawl over on his own!


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## montage (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> Armstrong finally put in his place, hopefully he'll be a tad embarrassed now!




If you could climb like that at 38, I doubt you would feel embarrassed. 

Full respect to the man.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Now who was saying this wouldn't make any difference?



Never have I been more pleased to be wrong! 

I don't think this is the end by any stretch. Schlecks, Sastre will all want a piece. This stage has breathed fire into the GC!


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## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Embarrassed? After 3 years away that is a credible result. Like the other day in the Pyrenees, team tactics would have determined that he wasn't responsible for trying to chase Contador so had to watch him ride away. Somehow I doubt Contador would have done the same thing if Lance had made the move - he is clearly not a team player.


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## Bigtwin (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> Armstrong finally put in his place, hopefully he'll be a tad embarrassed now!



Armstrong will have known EXACTLY what was required for second, and that's exactly what he did.

We've all seen enough of his racing for years to know how he will plan this this out, we've seen the "I'm done for" act time and time again. Another week to go, only a fool writes LA of at this stage. 

He's more canny than a can of cans in a canning factory.


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

Wonder what Lance will have to tweet about tonight!


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## montage (19 Jul 2009)

41kmh average speed over a mountain stage.....


 !!


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

unless Bertie falls off, there's nothing the old man can do, other than retire again!


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## Will1985 (19 Jul 2009)

Drugs tests all round...


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## Halfmanhalfbike (19 Jul 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Armstrong will have known EXACTLY what was required for second, and that's exactly what he did.
> 
> We've all seen enough of his racing for years to know how he will plan this this out, we've seen the "I'm done for" act time and time again. Another week to go, only a fool writes LA of at this stage.



Not this time.


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## Bigtwin (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> unless Bertie falls off, there's nothing the old man can do, other than retire again!



Wiggins has just said it all "Lance plays poker - you never know what's going on".

If he doesn't. none of us sure as hell do.


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## Halfmanhalfbike (19 Jul 2009)

montage said:


> 41kmh average speed over a mountain stage.....
> 
> 
> !!



Yes. But only about 25km of real climbing.

Either that or they all PEDalled their way


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## nigelnorris (19 Jul 2009)

Fantastic to see Brad Wiggins bigging himself up so much in the interview, great he's feeling so good about himself.


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

Glad to see you're still clinging to the dream Bigtwin - but check bertie on the podium, he's not even sweating, lance looked fukked


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## montage (19 Jul 2009)

Brad could get a 2nd place here.... if he maintains this climbing form....with the TT coming up (will he make time up on contador in the TT ?  ) ...

Oooo I wonder how much he could challenge the yellow


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

Excellent interview with Bradley on ITV4.

"2 more tough days in the Alps and then Annecy, and then Wiggo's in his element" were his words!!

Class act.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> lance looked fukked



Inclined to agree. He might have let Contador ride away from him, but not Schleck or Wiggins.


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## Bigtwin (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> Glad to see you're still clinging to the dream Bigtwin - but check bertie on the podium, he's not even sweating, lance looked fukked



Boy you really like to chomp those big chuks of bait - hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times straight down your gullet. Lucky you know so much more that Wiggo and the rest of them eh?

Shelling peas.


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> nice touch by kloden at the end, leaving Lance to crawl over on his own!


IIRC the last time Kloden had to shepherd a team leader who was slower than him was with Ullrich in 2005. 

And Lance looked awful.


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## mad al (19 Jul 2009)

easiest thing in the world to slate LA, but at 37 years young................he's a God


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

mad al said:


> easiest thing in the world to slate LA, but at 37 years young................he's a God


I'm forty, does that make me a Titan?


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## Young Un (19 Jul 2009)

Chuffy said:


> I'm forty, does that make me a Titan?


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

It's not "slating" Armstrong to say he looked tired, or fukked even.

I'm just pleased these attacks happened. I wanted to see riders ride without fear or awe of Armstrong. And I wanted to see common sense in Astana, Contodor is so clearly the team's leader and I reckon he was being disrespected. I hope Armstrong sees & accepts his role now, for the teams sake. From the interview I have just watched with him, he does.


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

I'm warming my hat so I can eat it if Lance wins the tour...

Reckon I'll be alright though, about as much chance of that happening as Osama bin Laden inviting me round to his semi in Luton for some ham sandwiches...


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> It's not "slating" Armstrong to say he looked tired, or fukked even.


NO! OFF MESSAGE! 
The official line (cf Liggett, the fanboys etc) is that at 37 HE IS AWSUM,



> I'm just pleased these attacks happened. I wanted to see riders ride without fear or awe of Armstrong. And I wanted to see common sense in Astana, Contodor is so clearly the team's leader and I reckon he was being disrespected. I hope Armstrong sees & accepts his role now, for the teams sake. From the interview I have just watched with him, he does.


He surely can't have any choice. Further back on GC is my prediction and good riddance for '10 hopefully.


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> I'm warming my hat so I can eat it if Lance wins the tour...
> 
> Reckon I'll be alright though, about as much chance of that happening as Osama bin Laden inviting me round to his semi in Luton for some ham sandwiches...


He's just rung. He's got in a few bottles but he wants to know if you prefer red, white or rose.


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## mad al (19 Jul 2009)

Chuffy said:


> I'm forty, does that make me a Titan?


 Hell I'm 56 and was once passed in a TT by a rider in his 60's (laughin like a maniac) and I was .........





































*45*,,,,,stay cool


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## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2009)

Once again Kloeden - my least favourite rider of all time - reveals himself to be just a tad short of desire.

Zimmers - I wouldn't take 20/1 on Armstrong tonight, but do you think that he has given up? I can't imagine him running up the yellow flag until after the time trial.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

In fairness, at 37 he IS amazing. Not too many of his age could compete at this level. Hinchapie likewise. But that's not what I watch for. I watch to see the attacks, they're exciting. After Contador went, then Schleck, then Wiggins, it was (for me) as if they had become unshackled from the legend. I hope the others see that and take the courage to ride for themselves. We saw today that Armstrong is 37 and can be beaten.


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## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2009)

mad al said:


> Hell I'm 56 and was once passed in a TT by a rider in his 60's (laughin like a maniac) and I was .........*45*,,,,,stay cool


And then there's Mister Ray Dare - 100 miles in 4hrs 59












aged 81


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> In fairness, at 37 he IS amazing. Not too many of his age could compete at this level. Hinchapie likewise. But that's not what I watch for. I watch to see the attacks, they're exciting. After Contador went, then Schleck, then Wiggins, it was (for me) as if they had become unshackled from the legend. I hope the others see that and take the courage to ride for themselves. We saw today that Armstrong is 37 and can be beaten.


That's the key. Team LA's biggest success has been to convince other riders that he plays poker _all the time_. Unfortunately they've fallen for it over the years and have been either too paralysed to attack or have panicked into crappy attacks that failed. Hopefully today will mean that, finally, the other riders see through it. He's human, not Lady bleedin' Gaga.


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> Once again Kloeden - my least favourite rider of all time - reveals himself to be just a tad short of desire.
> 
> Zimmers - I wouldn't take 20/1 on Armstrong tonight, but do you think that he has given up? I can't imagine him running up the yellow flag until after the time trial.


I don't reckon he's given up at all. If he were to quit this race that would be really embarrassing. Indurain soldiered on when Riis beat him, he took the defeat like a man and that's one of the big reasons I have serious respect for him. Lance quitting this race for anything other than a bad fall would be very childish.

he's not given up, he's just not good enough to win anymore


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

I once got very excited in a 10 mile TT when I thought I had caught my minute man.

Turned out he was my three minute man, and he was well over 70.

My joy had quickly to turn to respect as I gave him a wave as I went past...


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## rich p (19 Jul 2009)

I thought it was odd team behaviour to get Kloden to drag Armstrong, Wiggins, F Schleck etc up after Bertie shot off. I would have thought they should have left the chasing down, such as it was, to the others. Armstrong was still unable to defer to a stronger younger rival.


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## Chuffy (19 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> I thought it was odd team behaviour to get Kloden to drag Armstrong, Wiggins, F Schleck etc up after Bertie shot off. I would have thought they should have left the chasing down, such as it was, to the others. Armstrong was still unable to defer to a stronger younger rival.


Without Kloden he would have been dropped for even more time. Not acceptable...


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## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2009)

Here's Lance's 'tweet' for the day. Normally he writes a few, will see if he has anything else to say later....



> St15 done. Ouch! Verbier was as hard as I thought. Alberto - super and had great punch/power. A heartfelt congrats to him. Rest day 2morrow!


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

David Millar came in 12 mins down, but they way he delivered Wiggo to the bottom of the Verbier climb deserves high praise.


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Paul_L said:


> the way he delivered Wiggo to the bottom of the Verbier climb deserves high praise.



Not sure if you're being funny!  I don't think so but it does sound it!


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> Not sure if you're being funny!  I don't think so but it does sound it!



wasn't intended as a funny! where's the joke?


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## Jonathan M (19 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> I don't reckon he's given up at all. If he were to quit this race that would be really embarrassing. Indurain soldiered on when Riis beat him, he took the defeat like a man and that's one of the big reasons I have serious respect for him. Lance quitting this race for anything other than a bad fall would be very childish.
> 
> he's not given up, he's just not good enough to win anymore




DO you think LA is having cream or custard with his humble pie at dinner tonight?


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## mad al (19 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> And then there's Mister Ray Dare - 100 miles in 4hrs 59
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I had the pleasure of gracing the start line at road running events with a certain Mr Bob Brierly who until he passed away held several "Masters" records and I know now that I just wouldn't get there at that age ...................80+


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## bonk man (19 Jul 2009)

I don't think Armstrong would quit, he will work for his team mate, however should anything go wrong with Contador in the time trial or out on the road LA will go all out for a victory.

It would still be a big ask of him though as there are some great riders in the mix, not least Wiggo.... but he was pulling some nasty faces on the climb today 

I cannot see LA winning it overall to be honest but you never know what is really going on in the tour from one minute to the next let alone over a week. Carlos Sastre could well grab the last mountain stage.. you mark my words


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## yello (19 Jul 2009)

Paul_L said:


> wasn't intended as a funny! where's the joke?



delivered to the bottom of the hill.... and left to climb it! 

I know what you mean it just sounds amusing


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## gavintc (19 Jul 2009)

I am watching this stage in a run down hotel in Macon. It seems more intersting having a French commentary. Oh well, only a few more days till we watch it live.


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## Paul_L (19 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> delivered to the bottom of the hill.... and left to climb it!
> 
> I know what you mean it just sounds amusing




ah i see what you mean now. Yeah when you tell it like that it's quite easy being a super dom. slog your guts out on the flat and 5% slopes helping your leaders to the bottom of the main event, then peel off on the back of a job well done and have a leisurely sunday ride to the top!


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## eldudino (19 Jul 2009)

Just watched the highlights on Eurosport, absolutely gripping. I left France at 3pm today and they still had about 85km to go so I missed all the crucial action of the day. Over my hols, France 2 has served me well, giving live (or 'en direct') coverage whenever I passed or plonked myself infront of a TV. I think I'm going to have to find a website streaming it tomorrow when I'm back in the office!


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## HLaB (19 Jul 2009)

eldudino said:


> Just watched the highlights on Eurosport, absolutely gripping.


It was I really enjoyed that stage, watched it live and watched the highlights


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## SimonRoberts0204 (19 Jul 2009)

The ONE DAY that Im away and cant tune in, AND missed the highlights 

More attacks today than i've seen watching all bloody tour...


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## onthe_road (20 Jul 2009)

It was very good. Classic mountain finish, riders arriving in dribs and drabs, fairly big GC shake-up. AC timed everything to perfection - stage, yellow jersey, team leadership. Wiggins was the surprise package of the day. Armstrong ran on empty from the start of the last climb and I'm wondering how he'll behave from Tuesday onwards.
Looks like the tour is now AC's to lose but there should be a fair amount of interesting butchering for the 5 or 6 places behind him.


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## buggi (20 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> Not sure if it's been posted yet but just in case someone doesn't know, Boonen didn't start this morning. Runny bottom it would seem.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-flash-tom-boonen-out-of-tour-de-france



it's just not his tour is it. he's had problems all along

i'm not writing LA off yet. contador was brill today but Lance is still second. he could pull something out the bag, or something could happen to contador () to give him a clear run

would be cool if wiggo took it tho!


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## TimDanaher (20 Jul 2009)

BTW, anyone see the Sky News coverage? Given their intended sponsorship, I thought they'd be over Wiggo's performance like a rash...

They covered Bertie's win well enough, then, right at the very end..."meanwhile, Britain's Bradley Wiggins has moved up to 5th on general classification."


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## gavintc (20 Jul 2009)

I do hope the Contador climbing legs were his own and not given an 'extra' boost. Perhaps the cycnic in me comes out when I see a truly outstanding ride.


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## HLaB (20 Jul 2009)

SimonRoberts0204 said:


> The ONE DAY that Im away and cant tune in, AND missed the highlights
> 
> More attacks today than i've seen watching all bloody tour...


If you are in the UK you could watch the highlights on the ITV player on line.


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## Jonathan M (20 Jul 2009)

buggi said:


> it's just not his tour is it. he's had problems all along
> 
> *i'm not writing LA off yet. contador was brill today but Lance is still second.* he could pull something out the bag, or something could happen to contador () to give him a clear run
> 
> would be cool if wiggo took it tho!



Would appear that LA has settled on being Contadors super-domestique though, from what Sky are carrying on Sky News Active.

Doesn't matter, his reasons behind racing again were to highlight the Livestrong brand, I'd say he has done that admirably.


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## yello (20 Jul 2009)

Jonathan M said:


> Doesn't matter, his reasons behind racing again were to highlight the Livestrong brand, I'd say he has done that admirably.



I do love this fall back option! Oh, Armstrong didn't want to win, it's about cancer awareness.... livestrong....he's 37 (38,whatever it is) and that's fantastic....yadder yadder yadder

Face it Lancefans, your boy got his arse whipped!! 

... or should that be ass whupped???


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## rich p (20 Jul 2009)

Awareness of what?
A new disease? Crikey - I've only just come to terms with swine flu and botulism now I'm all of a quiver about this new risk to the world.
Cancer, nope, it's a new one to me
Good ole Lance for bringing us the news by wearing a black helmet and socks.


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## johnnyh (20 Jul 2009)

a 37/38 year old, 7 times winning cancer surviving Texan did amazing, like him or loathe him (as seems to be the way).

arse whipped? no more than guys much younger and in better shape.


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## beancounter (20 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> Face it Lancefans, your boy got his arse whipped!!



He's second in the GC ffs.

bc


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## rich p (20 Jul 2009)

beancounter said:


> He's second in the GC ffs.
> 
> bc



Of course, but his arse still got whipped in the stage to Verbier. Losing that amount of time on one stage is a whipping in GC terms. He's there to win not to be a super domestique IMO and second is first loser as they say in Texas!


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## yello (20 Jul 2009)

Haven't touched a nerve have I??


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## SimonRoberts0204 (20 Jul 2009)

I just wish i'd placed some money on a Wiggins podium finish from day one... !

My forecast is Contador to win, Armstrong to concede 2nd to Schleck due to finally surrendering to Contador's leadership and helping him take 1st, and to end up fighting Wiggins for 3rd, which I think he will take on Ventoux.

My hope is that Armstrong lights up the Ventoux and shows Contador how small a 1'37 gap is... but I highly doubt he will, whether he can will be irrelevant.


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## yello (20 Jul 2009)

SimonRoberts0204 said:


> My hope is that Armstrong lights up the Ventoux and shows Contador how small a 1'37 gap is... but I highly doubt he will, *whether he can will be irrelevant*.



Could you explain that bit please because I don't understand it. I would have thought "whether he can" was extremely relevant... so I figure that I must be missing what you're saying.

I can only figure you're suggesting Armstrong won't attack only because of team orders. He's already acknowledged Contador as the stronger rider - something that is, imho, glaringly obvious.


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## SimonRoberts0204 (20 Jul 2009)

Thats what I'm saying. It wont come down to whether he's got it in him, since he's accepted Contador as his team leader, he wont even try.

Im not suggesting he can, just that since he wont, there will still be room for people to say he could have done . - As with all of Contadors unchased attacks so far.

If he still had aspirations of winning, he would surely have tried to go with contador yesterday.


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## Chuffy (20 Jul 2009)

SimonRoberts0204 said:


> If he still had aspirations of winning, he would surely have tried to go with contador yesterday.


Except that he couldn't. He was dropped by the whole of the bunch and only scraped in when he did because he had Kloden towing him. Aspirations are one thing, physical ability is another.


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## yello (20 Jul 2009)

To be honest, I genuinely don't think Armstrong will even be on the podium. I HOPE Wiggins will be but I'm not convinced of it; fingers crossed though.

No, I reckon (hope?) we'll see riders liberated and having a piece of Armstrong on Ventoux. I want to be wrong about Wiggins but I do think it'll be a bridge mountain too far for him.


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## Jonathan M (20 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> I do love this fall back option! Oh, Armstrong didn't want to win, it's about cancer awareness.... livestrong....he's 37 (38,whatever it is) and that's fantastic....yadder yadder yadder
> 
> Face it Lancefans, your boy got his arse whipped!!
> 
> ... or should that be ass whupped???



I'm certainly no Lancefan, in fact I think that stage 15 has proven that if it wasn't for past palmares no team in creation would have taken him on. Look back a page & you'll see that I feel LA has eaten humble pie today, the issue of team leader (51 or 52) has been resolved, and Johann, or whoever chose Contador to be 51, got the decision right.

Yello, chill out a bit, we know you don't like LA, but please don't assume that any post mentioning his name is @rse licking. As someone with cancer then I would like to have just a smidgeon of his fitness with which to carry on enjoying cycling, sadlyat the moment I just don;t have any fitness with which to enjoy the sport.


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## rich p (20 Jul 2009)

Jonathan M said:


> I'm certainly no Lancefan, in fact I think that stage 15 has proven that if it wasn't for past palmares no team in creation would have taken him on. Look back a page & you'll see that I feel LA has eaten humble pie today, the issue of team leader (51 or 52) has been resolved, and Johann, or whoever chose Contador to be 51, got the decision right.
> 
> Yello, chill out a bit, we know you don't like LA, but please don't assume that any post mentioning his name is @rse licking. As someone with cancer then I would like to have just a smidgeon of his fitness with which to carry on enjoying cycling, sadlyat the moment I just don;t have any fitness with which to enjoy the sport.




I'm really sorry to hear of your condition, Jonathan, and the very best of luck with it.

Yello isn't having a go at LA having had cancer - it's just a bit of good old banter with the fanboys.


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## Aperitif (20 Jul 2009)

It's a strange thing this sport.
I have never been appreciative of the surly attitude of Lance Armstrong and there are endless tales passim...but.
I would really like him to fight and challenge allcomers - let's say climbing Ventoux - to illustrate what qualities he has and, ultimately what shortcomings.

I felt the same way about the Australian batsmen yesterday. Application and effort on a fantastic scale. Of course I want the best man / team to win but, considering Armstrong has been 'off the Tour' for two years, it seems a pretty impressive effort. (Yes, yes - I acknowledge all the stories etc...)


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## jpembroke (20 Jul 2009)

I think LA has accepted that he's not going to win and maybe/hopefully will relax into the roll of helping Contador. Watching ITV4 earlier he seemed genuine about that.

From the start I've thought that LAs focus would be on the one that got away: The Ventoux. I really don't think he cares about the GC now, it's le Géant de Provence that matters. Unfinished business. I don't think he'll win it but he may go full out trying.


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## yello (21 Jul 2009)

Jonathan M said:


> Yello, chill out a bit, *we* know you don't like LA, but please don't assume that any post mentioning his name is @rse licking.





rich p said:


> Yello isn't having a go at LA having had cancer - it's just a bit of good old banter with the fanboys.



Indeed Rich. I'm not doing anything other than quite deliberately & cheekily winding up the lancefans... as this --->  and this ---->  was meant to indicate.

And, Jonathon, please don't use "we" when you mean "I". Sounds like your trying to gang up on me! 

And please don't assume that every time I mention Armstrong that's it's motivated by dislike. Truth told, whilst I am no great fan, I can be objective. The situation at Astana and the way Contador has been treated are the things that anger me, not Armstrong. I don't really care about him, but I do see him as responsible for the shabby treatment of Contador - the best GT rider around at the moment. With that situation now seemingly resolved, I don't care about Armstrong. I do think he'll fall down the GC but that's a cycling opinion. I think Wiggins will too sadly.


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