# Is this a silly idea or what? Cycling London to Paris on a battered 1985 Raleigh Record Sprint.



## mollipop (31 Oct 2011)

I'm planning on cycling from London to Paris next year. Only thing with the ride is, I don't have an easy steed. It's a 1985 Raleigh Record Sprint - 12 gears (half of which are knackered, so doing hills is a right bugger!). But I have total faith that she can do it. I've already got myself some SPD pedals and shoes and I'm in the process of remolding the Brooks saddle that came with it, so I'm confident that my bum and my legs won't be too battered by the time I get to the Eiffel Tower.

I would like to change the gearing though. I went to my favourite bike shop the other day and they tell me that for the price it'll cost to install a new groupset, I may as well buy a new bike. I'm determined that I don't need to buy a whole new bike for this expedition - especially since my only job is a part-time minimum wage one. 

I'm also pretty sure that I don't really need to change the whole groupset to get some easier hill climbing on the bike. 

What do you all think? 

Thanks very much in advance.


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## the snail (31 Oct 2011)

It depends on what gearing you have now. Probably the cheapest option would be to change the freewheel/cassette on the back, which is fairly cheap, but there will be a limit on how far you can lower the gearing without changing the rear derailleur.


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## Zoiders (31 Oct 2011)

Don't go through a mainstream LBS as they will say it's financially beyond repair (or not know how to repair it as may be the case with younger staff)

If you hit the cycle jumbles, ebay and a recycling project if you have one it's actually something you can get running rather cheaply. I bet the chain set in fact has many miles left in it. The cassette - you haven't mentioned if it's a screw on freewheel or a very early Cassette (yes they did make a 6 speed).

If it's a screw freewheel on it's going to be easy enough to replace and short of a new chain, cables and pads everything should be peachy.

Check the BB as well, strip it out and give it full clean, lube and new bearings.

As for going for easier gearing - yes you can fit a slightly larger toothed freewheel at the rear but only within the capacity of the mech, you can simply swap the rear mech for a cheap Shimano tourney MTB mech and that will give you a bit more capacity.


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## mollipop (31 Oct 2011)

the snail said:


> It depends on what gearing you have now. Probably the cheapest option would be to change the freewheel/cassette on the back, which is fairly cheap, but there will be a limit on how far you can lower the gearing without changing the rear derailleur.



I'm definitely changing the cassette first after getting some advice from a local cyclist. The rear derailleur wouldn't be a problem either. Are these the two things that you consider to be most important for upgrading? I'm sorry I can't say very much about the gearing system I've got now. I'm only just learning, really. I can say though that it's a 12-speed. Six sprockets on the cassette, two chain rings. The derailleurs are Campagnolo, but no idea about model or anything like that.


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## Zoiders (31 Oct 2011)

mollipop said:


> I'm definitely changing the cassette first after getting some advice from a local cyclist. The rear derailleur wouldn't be a problem either. Are these the two things that you consider to be most important for upgrading? I'm sorry I can't say very much about the gearing system I've got now. I'm only just learning, really. I can say though that it's a 12-speed. Six sprockets on the cassette, two chain rings. The derailleurs are Campagnolo, but no idea about model or anything like that.


Have you got pictures of this bike and it's campag bits?


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## willem (31 Oct 2011)

I think this is a great plan. Sadly your bike shop is talking nonsense, however. Twelve speeds are all freewheel hubs rather than cassettes, and the freewheels can still be had, although with some difficulty. So all you may need is a new freewheel with a largish cog. If your current set up does not shift well, the freewheel and/or chain may be worn, but perhaps all it needs is proper adjustment. There is no need to buy a new groupset, or spend serious money, if the rest of the bike is more or less OK.

Success,
Willem


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## tbtb (1 Nov 2011)

Those bike shops don't understand the retro appeal of an 80s racer. I don't quite get it myself but I can see it's a big thing. I must admit I _would _like a bike with gold Space Shuttle logos on the seat tube.

If I were you I'd start by cleaning the chain. Look on youtube for How-To videos. Also, the gear cables run under the bottom bracket and may have been gathering grime at that point for 25 years. A quick scrub with a dishwashing brush under there can help the shifting, if you're lucky. 

Re gear ratios, you might find that you don't need to alter the gears if you can just get a bit fitter.

Out of interest, are you going to dump the bike in the Seine or will you bring it back after le triumph?


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## vernon (1 Nov 2011)

Lowering the gearing is potentially expensive depending on how low you want to go and which ends of the drive train needs replacing.

It is possible to get six speed freewheels with up to 34 teeth here That's £38
You will probably have to replace the rear derailleur with an MTB based one too as a road based rear derailleur normally cant cope with large rear sprockets.
You can get a Shimano Acera rear mech for £18 here


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## Chris-H (1 Nov 2011)

Well whatever way you decide to go with your gearing i wish you great success with your ride,will the ride be for fun or is there a charity in mind to raise money for? You still have plenty of time to increase your fitness levels so your gearing might well suffice come next year.


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## bigjim (1 Nov 2011)

You have a great bike there. I did thousands of miles on mine including touring and now regret selling it. Very light and comfortable bike. Do what I did and fit a Megarange cassette and rear mech. Total about £20 off e-bay. Grease the wheels and bottom bracket. The wheels are good strong items if trued correctly. I often took the bike through some serious offroad stuff when I got lost without any problems. New brake blocks [only cheap] may be a good idea. That bike will soak up the miles, no problem.


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## Zoiders (1 Nov 2011)

vernon said:


> Lowering the gearing is potentially expensive depending on how low you want to go and which ends of the drive train needs replacing.
> 
> It is possible to get six speed freewheels with up to 34 teeth here That's £38
> You will probably have to replace the rear derailleur with an MTB based one too as a road based rear derailleur normally cant cope with large rear sprockets.
> You can get a Shimano Acera rear mech for £18 here


SJS have to be possibly the most expensive option going for a refurb.

£38 for a freewheel?

I don't care how good quailty it is, you can still find new old stock bits for much less than that.


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## bigjim (1 Nov 2011)

Dear me. Where do you get these prices? Click on these links. £21 total. Job done.
cassette 
rear mech


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## TheDoctor (1 Nov 2011)

Whereabouts are you? It's easier to suggest a decent local bike shop if we know where local is.
If it were me, I'd have a bash at getting the existing gears working first.
If that doesn't work out, get a wide(ish)-range block on the back, and a cheap compact chainset on the front.
The reason I say that is that after 25 years the chain, block and rings will have all worn together, so if you replace one, you'll need to replace them all. Costings from my LBS are - 14-28 Freewheel block - £14. Chainset + BB - £47. Chain - £8. Brake blocks - £7 and a complete set of cables is a fiver in Asda. CRC or Ebay will be cheaper, I expect.
£80 and you've got all the drivetrain replaced, plus better brakes.
Your existing dérailleurs will cope with that, and you'll get a significantly lower bottom gear than you've got now.
Calais - Paris is hardly mountainous, after all.


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## bigjim (1 Nov 2011)

> The reason I say that is that after 25 years the chain, block and rings will have all worn together, so if you replace one, you'll need to replace them all.


I disagree. Depends on use. The chainrings will not wear at the same rate as the freewheel. New chain probably but I'd replace the freewheel and mech first and see how the bike rides. No use spending for the sake of it. My Sprint was 20 years old when I aquired it, and I never had to change the chainwheels, even after all that mileage


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## TheDoctor (1 Nov 2011)

Ahhh!! I see!! I thought the OP had been riding this for the last 25 years.
Yes, if it's spent 24 years sat in a shed, the chain probably isn't all that worn at all...
Right.
Chuck the Massive Block of Wall-Climbing Goodness on, an MTB rear mech and see what happens then


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## superbadger (1 Nov 2011)

Another option would be to look for a 'spares or repair' bike for sale! You may find one cheap that doesn't have gear problems? .


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## tbtb (1 Nov 2011)

Good links Bigjim. New chain also required surely?


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## bigjim (1 Nov 2011)

Depends on condition of existing chain. Easy to check wear on the chain. Personally I would try it first [though I'm a tight git], if the chain starts jumping get rid. A chain is only about £7 on e-bay. Just don't buy a shimano one.


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## tbtb (1 Nov 2011)

Bigjim, I more meant cos of the new block you suggested being a 34 toother. The current chain would be a bit short, maybe. I'm just guessing of course - I don't know original spec for the Sprint and after 25 years, the current set-up could be anything. It's a pity we don't know the number of teeth on the biggest sprocket on the block.


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## superbadger (1 Nov 2011)

superbadger said:


> Another option would be to look for a 'spares or repair' bike for sale! You may find one cheap that doesn't have gear problems? .



Just read mine back.... I didn't mean to replace the Sprint,I meant to add onto it.


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## bigjim (1 Nov 2011)

> Bigjim, I more meant cos of the new block you suggested being a 34 toother. The current chain would be a bit short,


Yea sorry. I should have said. Depends whats on it now and how much spare length is in it. If I remember rightly I got away with adding a couple of links to mine. But like I said a new chain is cheap enough.


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## Crankarm (2 Nov 2011)

Silly idea. I would say ditch it or if you want let it remain in the shed. Buy a new cheap bike instead whether from Halfords say a Carrera general purpose hyrbid or a cheapie second hand tourer on Ebay. Nostalgically looking at this bike thinking you can recommision it cheaply is not really viable. You replace one or two things which will turn into 5 or 6, you may as well buy a much newer bike. The wheels will be crap as well, might even fail on your randonee to Paris. Ditch it, you could spend as much on this old jallopy as on a much newer second hand or brand new bike. Have you factored in equipment such as rear rack and panniers to carry your luggage to Paris? Presumably you will continue to use it after this trip?


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## bigjim (2 Nov 2011)

> Silly idea. I would say ditch it or if you want let it remain in the shed. Buy a new cheap bike instead whether from Halfords say a Carrera general purpose hyrbid or a cheapie second hand tourer on Ebay. Nostalgically looking at this bike thinking you can recommision it cheaply is not really viable. You replace one or two things which will turn into 5 or 6, you may as well buy a much newer bike. The wheels will be crap as well, might even fail on your randonee to Paris. Ditch it, you could spend as much on this old jallopy as on a much newer second hand or brand new bike. Have you factored in equipment such as rear rack and panniers to carry your luggage to Paris? Presumably you will continue to use it after this trip?


Your choice which way you go of course but I totally disagree with the above and I can only speak from personal experience with two of these bikes. How can somebody come up with such things as "the wheels will be crap". No they won't! They will be 36 spoke good solid wheels capable of carrying a great deal of weight and soaking up a lot of punishment. I don't see any cheap bikes on the market that will come anywhere near the quality of the bike you have. I am of course assuming the bike is in very good condition. If it is a rustbox then of course the quoted statement applies.


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## Bodhbh (2 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Your choice which way you go of course but I totally disagree with the above and I can only speak from personal experience with two of these bikes. How can somebody come up with such things as "the wheels will be crap". No they won't! They will be 36 spoke good solid wheels capable of carrying a great deal of weight and soaking up a lot of punishment. I don't see any cheap bikes on the market that will come anywhere near the quality of the bike you have. I am of course assuming the bike is in very good condition. If it is a rustbox then of course the quoted statement applies.



Spoiler, in case the OP doesn't want to see pics of a refurbed one:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129820&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I was just interested in the project and googled it a bit, if it can be done cheaply, why not looks like a fine bike.


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## stevevw (2 Nov 2011)

The original spec. for 1987 (probably the same as 1985) is 6 Speed Freewheel 14-15-17-19-21-24 and 52-42 Chainrings 
The medium which was a 60cm  weighed in at 25lb


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## Crankarm (2 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Your choice which way you go of course but I totally disagree with the above and I can only speak from personal experience with two of these bikes. How can somebody come up with such things as "the wheels will be crap". No they won't! They will be 36 spoke good solid wheels capable of carrying a great deal of weight and soaking up a lot of punishment. I don't see any cheap bikes on the market that will come anywhere near the quality of the bike you have. I am of course assuming the bike is in very good condition. If it is a rustbox then of course the quoted statement applies.



Errr ...... look mate neither of us have seen this old bike. The Op was asking what we thought not what you think about my response. A big clue is in the first paragraph,



> I'm planning on cycling from London to Paris next year. Only thing with the ride is, I don't have an easy steed. It's a _*1985* _Raleigh Record Sprint - 12 gears (_*half of which are knackered*_, so doing hills is a right bugger!). But I have *total faith* that she can do it. I've already got myself some SPD pedals and shoes and I'm in the process of remolding the Brooks saddle that came with it, so I'm confident that my bum and my legs won't be too battered by the time I get to the Eiffel Tower.
> 
> I would like to *change the gearing* though. I went to my favourite *bike shop* the other day and they *tell me that for the price it'll cost to install a new groupset, I may as well buy a new bike*. *I'm determined* that I don't need to buy a whole new bike for this expedition - especially since my only job is a part-time minimum wage one.
> 
> ...





Focus on the bits I've highlighted - *1985, knackered, replacement of whole groupset, total faith, may as well buy a new bike, I'm determined.
*
It will cost a lot more than £25 to do up and certainly will not get the OP to Paris unless it is methodically and properly serviced and tested before hand which costs time and MONEY.

Tell me how 26 year old factory built wheels, that have been sitting in a shed for years even if they are 36 hole are going to be as you claim, without seeing them I hasten to add, 



> good solid wheels capable of carrying a great deal of weight and soaking up a lot of punishment


?

They are not going to have the strength of new spokes or rims and certainly the rims will be worn. The OP doesn't say what recent cycling experience they have with only 2 posts. Maybe they last rode in the 80s which is why they want to ride this old bike again?

I am not talking crap I am being realistic about what it is going to cost to re-commission this bike. The LBS is actually talking sense although if you did all the work yourself you won't pay labour charges, but you will need the skill, experience and tools to strip it, examining, cleaning, regreasing and replacing components where necessary. You are pretty sure to spend nearly as much as what it would cost to buy a newer or brand new cheap bike. Period. Components such as the Brookes saddle can be swapped onto a newer bike. If you want to give the OP misleading advice then go right ahead I am not stopping you or criticising your rose tinted specs view of these old timer bikes. I speak from experience having re-commissioned an old Raleigh Carlton some years ago. I did the bare minimum to get it working again which still cost the best part of £250. The frame was rather rusty (from the inside as well) and if blasted would have resembled a sieve so re-enamelling was pointless, the wheels were crap which I replaced as spokes kept breaking, the drive train was shot so had to replace that and the handle bars and stem needed replacing as I didn't trust pulling on them too hard for risking them snapping and me hitting the deck.

If all the OP really needs is a bike to get him to Paris safely, and maybe back as well, he doesn't currently have many cycling miles in his legs, then I would suggest he goes for a cheap and cheerful hybrid from Halfords or even Evans which has new metal and may also be more suited to fitment of a rack, panniers and mudguards etc or a much more modern bike from Ebay. A modern bike will have far better brakes and indexed gears unlike this Raleigh Record Sprint which would not be the best riding to Paris anyway if you have to carry gear with you. Sure the OP should do up this bike up if he wants, but he should be under no illusion, it will cost him an awful lot more than £25 which is probably the amount he was thinking of spending. Nostalgia does not come cheap.

Btw my Raleigh Carlton after a few years riding, the head tube snapped around the lower lugs as I was riding it up either Whinlater or Hartside Pass just below the top. Can't remember which but it was bloody frightening and fortunately happened when I was going up rather than down hill  . The Weinemann centre pull brakes were so awful they required praying and devine intervention to stop. Modern brakes such as V brakes and even side pull Ultegra or Chorus brakes are sooooo much better in comparison and then there are super powerful and reliable disc brakes which are from another galaxy in comparison. 

Looking at a bike such as this you realise acutally how refined a machine the bicycle has now become although pretty much the same design bikes of today are so much better than 25 years ago. Ok the Appollos aren't.


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## Zoiders (2 Nov 2011)

Actualy wheels on a Raleigh Record from 85 if they are the usual black anodized mavics with stainless spokes that I have found on a lot of Raleighs from the period will probably he just fine to ride as long as you service the hubs.

85 is a good year for retro kit that runs.

An older Carlton and a Raleigh Record from 85 are two entirely diffrent beasts, yes they may both be steel but I have refurbed enough 80's Raleighs to know that they are in fact not that pricey to get running again as the kit tends to last well enough.

Avoiding the LBS and using a recycling project and ebay I think it's a perfectly cheap job to do, it's not going to be £250 by any stretch of the imagination - you didn't do the "bare minimum" to the carlton you simply built a bike up around an old frame, thats not quite the same thing as just getting a bike running again.

It's the triggers broom argumemt and I don't think think OP has that problem with the bike he is describing, this is why I asked him for pictures of the bike.


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## Crankarm (2 Nov 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Actualy wheels on a Raleigh Record from 85 if they are the usual black anodized mavics with stainless spokes that I have found on a lot of Raleighs from the period will probably he just fine to ride as long as you service the hubs.
> 
> 85 is a good year for retro kit that runs.
> 
> ...




You are not wrong there! Pictures would go a long way to assisting us with giving advice. For me the main thing is the condition of the frame. If this is ok then anything is possible. The Raleigh Record Sprint didn't have awful cotter pin cranks and cups and bearings bottom bracket like it's brother the Carlton did it? Jees they were awful, made be the Devil himself. Cartridge bottom brackets are sooooo much better. 

Zoiders - how much do you think it will cost to refurb this bike then?


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## StuartG (2 Nov 2011)

My old 10 speed 1979 Dawes Galaxy got as far as Beauvais. My three speed Brompton also got nearly there before converting itself into a single speed to finish. OK these were via Newhaven/Dieppe but the message is that gears are useful but not essential.

So what's wrong with the gearing? The most important is to have a granny gear for the steepest hill (is your route hilly?). It also depends on how much you carry. The easiest thing all round is to take almost nothing beyond a toothbrush and a razor, puncture/basic tool kit and a change of underwear (if you wear any!).

And granny gears just allow to pedal up a steep hill. You can still get up on a higher gear by honking. And there is no shame in walking the very steepest hill. Changing up on chainring on the old Dawes was always challenging, but you can find a knack and take pleasure in it.

Now I've got a 30 gear triple - the bees knees. Its easier, you have those intermediate gears to keep a constant cadence on slight changes of gradient - but its also more trouble working out the right gear and changing. On a long ride where time doesn't matter too much then simplicity and relaxation is good.

So don't think you have to change. Spend the money celebrating in Paris. Food & drink there beats any groupset. You have a retro bike. Why not retro gears?


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## vernon (2 Nov 2011)

What the OP needs to do is sit down and make a list of what needs changing to reach his objective of having a rideable bike that's fit for purpose.

There will be some changes that will have knock on effects:

Changing the front chainset to one with smaller chain rings might also need a new bottom bracket and front derailleur.
Changing the rear free wheel to a 32/34 tooth max one will also need a new rear derailleur.

Recabling the brakes and gear changers is also advisable.

Already the bill is approaching £150 if the OP spends time shopping around on the Internet.

Like Crankarm, I refurbished a bike, a Flying Gate, but took things a few steps further and I ended up with a bike that cost perhaps 70% of a brand new equivalent but it had a 20 year old frame at the core. Had I not compromised and used some lower spec Shimano components than I would normally use and striking it lucky with some s/h parts I'd have nearly matched the new price.

The desired end result is to have a bike that can be trusted to get to Paris without mechanical problems. Without a major refurbishment I would not attempt a ride to Paris on the Raleigh whereas I'd be perfectly happy to set off on a three month tour on my refurbished Flying Gate.


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## vernon (2 Nov 2011)

StuartG said:


> And granny gears just allow to pedal up a steep hill. You can still get up on a higher gear by honking.
> 
> Now I've got a 30 gear triple - the bees knees. Its easier, you have those intermediate gears to keep a constant cadence on slight changes of gradient - but its also more trouble working out the right gear and changing. On a long ride where time doesn't matter too much then simplicity and relaxation is good.



Granny gears also come in handy when you are just plain knackered and the slightest gradient is a challenge.

Riding with a triple chain set doesn't demand a lot of intelligence to get things right.


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## bigjim (2 Nov 2011)

Crankarm. You need to calm down. You are starting to sound like a Halfords salesperson. Nobody said your were talking crap. I actually pointed to your advice being good enough if the bike was a rustbucket. I am talking from direct experience of using this model of bike as a touring machine within the last few years. You are not! The Sprint has side pull brakes, not centre pull, which, if set up correctly with good pads are actually pretty good and I never felt the need to upgrade them. By the way how much is a good quality new steel frame nowadays?


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## tbtb (2 Nov 2011)

In choosing between whether to advise the pragmatic, sensible option (new town mtb from Halfords £200) or to embrace the romantic (advice re how to patch up the Sprint to maybe manage the journey) it's worth noting the OP's language - " (not) an _easy steed_, I'm sure_ she_ can make it, I'm determined, total faith. The OP asks "silly idea or what?" - the "or what" makes it borderline rhetorical, all the romantic language about the undertaking tells us they value the quirky adventure - we ought to consider this in weighing up what to advise - actually getting to Paris is not necessarily the only measure of success. 

The OP has the nouse to buy spd shoes, they no doubt do realise the odds of arriving in Paris are lower on the Sprint than on some modern alternative. If they were being entirely sensible they might even take the train. Bearing all this in mind, and that they've only actually entered two posts in the thread and may be half way to Paris by now, it's probably best just to wish them well and say the odds of an enjoyable quirky trip might be maximised by following the advice re the megarange block, doing some day long test runs and having someone knowledgeable have a look at the bike to check its underlying condition.


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## Zoiders (2 Nov 2011)

I would trust the sprint to get me there as much as a modern bike.

I know the bike in question and it's a reliable bit of kit, very simple, little to go wrong, very easy to fettle in the field if you have to.

People seem to be suggesting it needs rebuilding to the same spec as a new off the shelf bike to be worthy of use and this is simply a load of cods.


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## Crankarm (2 Nov 2011)

Zoiders said:


> I would trust the sprint to get me there as much as a modern bike.
> 
> I know the bike in question and it's a reliable bit of kit, very simple, little to go wrong, very easy to fettle in the field if you have to.
> 
> People seem to be suggesting it needs rebuilding to the same spec as a new off the shelf bike to be worthy of use and this is simply a load of cods.



No we are not saying it has to be the same spec as a new off the shelf bike, but if components are knackered they WILL need replacing. Well don't say I didn't warn the OP. How about new tyres as I guess the ones on it must be perished - thats £35-40 and new rim tape whilst you are at it and poss a new tube or two another £10-15. It soon adds up even doing all the work yourself.


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## tbtb (2 Nov 2011)

Right enough, Zoiders, I agree with your general point, quite right.


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## bigjim (2 Nov 2011)

Where are these prices coming from? I recently bought 2 michelin new 25c tyres for £6 each and have done 2 continental tours on them. New road bikes come fitted with these tyres. Also tubes can be had for £2 each. You don't really need new tubes as they will not have been exposed to sunlight. The guy has said that he is on minimum wage. You don't need a new bike for this. The whole route is only about 300miles. Jeez I would jump on my old mountain bike and have a go at that if I needed to.


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## tbtb (2 Nov 2011)

I do hope we get a trip report afterwards, now we've discussed it so much.


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## superbadger (2 Nov 2011)

Back to the OP... To hell with it! Clean the bike as best you can,check the wheels and tyres and just go for it!. You and the bike will make it; You will have push up a few hills but what the hell.....


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## Zoiders (2 Nov 2011)

Crankarm said:


> No we are not saying it has to be the same spec as a new off the shelf bike, but if components are knackered they WILL need replacing. Well don't say I didn't warn the OP. How about new tyres as I guess the ones on it must be perished - thats £35-40 and new rim tape whilst you are at it and poss a new tube or two another £10-15. It soon adds up even doing all the work yourself.


People are saying "fit STI's" "fit a triple" "fit new brakes" etc etc.

Just because it's from 85 and has DT shifters.

God knows how I get by riding fixed.


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## Crankarm (3 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Where are these prices coming from? I recently bought 2 michelin new 25c tyres for £6 each and have done 2 continental tours on them. New road bikes come fitted with these tyres. Also tubes can be had for £2 each. You don't really need new tubes as they will not have been exposed to sunlight. The guy has said that he is on minimum wage. You don't need a new bike for this. The whole route is only about 300miles. Jeez I would jump on my old mountain bike and have a go at that if I needed to.



Are these 1985 prices to match a 1985 bike?


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

Zoiders said:


> People are saying "fit STI's" "fit a triple" "fit new brakes" etc etc.
> 
> Just because it's from 85 and has DT shifters.
> 
> God knows how I get by riding fixed.



Don't recall seeing STI and brake upgrades being mentioned.

God knows how you get by with only one gear. I'd die of boredom.


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

Zoiders said:


> People seem to be suggesting it needs rebuilding to the same spec as a new off the shelf bike to be worthy of use and this is simply a load of cods.



No one has suggested that. 

However show me where you can by old spec replacement

brake cables
gear cables
chainset - if needed
deraiileur to cope with a 32 tooth old spec freewheel - if used

Modern spec replacement components are impossible to avoid.

Looking at the header - 'a battered 1985 Raleigh Record Sprint' hardly suggests a a bike in good working order does it?


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## bigjim (3 Nov 2011)

> brake cables
> gear cables
> chainset - if needed
> deraiileur to cope with a 32 tooth old spec freewheel - if used Modern spec replacement components are impossible to avoid.


You don't know much about bikes do you? The links to this derailleur kit have already been supplied. Modern cables are just the same as an 1985 model. £1.20 each at Wilkies though nobody said the bike needed them.



> Are these 1985 prices to match a 1985 bike?


Try doing a bit of research instead of suggesting somebody on minimum wage should walk into a bike shop and pay whatever they ask. Forget it I've done it for you. 
tyres 

tubes


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> You don't know much about bikes do you? The links to this derailleur kit have already been supplied. Modern cables are just the same as an 1985 model. £1.20 each at Wilkies though nobody said the bike needed them.



Yes and I supplied them.

Although nobody said that the bike needed new cables, I would not trust a set of 25 year old cables to do their job. Call me a wimp or whatever but I would like to be able to rely on the brake cables doing their job. 

I've tried being a zero/low cost cyclist in the past and have had more than a few older bikes through my hands. I have had brake cables give up the ghost before the tidied up 'classics' ever got to be ridden. Being able to stop is far more important than being able to go. 

£1.20 for a brake cable woot woot! A true bargain and a cheap guardian of the rider's health. I'd make them the first purchase in any refurbishment program.


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## bigjim (3 Nov 2011)

> Yes and I supplied them.


Yea the overpriced ones. Thanks for that.


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Yea the overpriced ones. Thanks for that.



You're welcome.

It's always best to have a choice.

Cheapest isn't synonymous with best.


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## bigjim (3 Nov 2011)

> £1.20 for a brake cable woot woot! A true bargain and a cheap guardian of the rider's health.


 Don't be silly.
I think that about the average price actually. Brake cables are made to a standard. Wilkinsons would not make themselves open to legal action by selling an inferior product as important to this. Actually I think I paid 99p last time. Or go to LBS and they are still only £1.29p. I've never actually had a cable snap, nor met anybody else who has. I imagine you would get plenty of warning of upcoming failure as they are multiple stranded. And both go at once? What are the odds?


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Don't be silly.
> I think that about the average price actually. Brake cables are made to a standard. Wilkinsons would not make themselves open to legal action by selling an inferior product as important to this. Actually I think I paid 99p last time. Or go to LBS and they are still only £1.29p. I've never actually had a cable snap, nor met anybody else who has. I imagine you would get plenty of warning of upcoming failure as they are multiple stranded. And both go at once? What are the odds?




I must be cursed then because I have had
a gear cable snap - bodged a fix to keep chain on middle chain ring
two brake cables snap - one before I got to ride the bike, one on the road with a different bike, both bikes from the mid 80s
a rear drop out fracture - brazed up and back on the road within two hours.
another rear drop out fracture - bike abandoned in situ, Orleans. Brand new replacement bought to continue tour.
No warnings on the drop out fractures.
Feeling of sponginess before cable snapped on the brakes
Sluggishness on gear change.

Admittedly these things are not everyday occurrences but just because you don't have personal knowledge of cable falures doesn't mean that they don't happen.

As for both cables snapping. Prudent replacement of both reduces the risk further.

On separate occasions so there you go now you can claim to know of someone whose brake cable has snapped.

One brake might be sufficient to slow and stop a bike on the flat or even going up hill but there's sufficient descents around to make an attempt to go down them with only one brake an act of folly.

Zero budget cycling is fine and dandy. I've done it when not having much choice and when in ignorance of the need for preventative maintainance.

I don't mind spending money replacing parts before they fail. 

YMMV


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## Zoiders (3 Nov 2011)

vernon said:


> No one has suggested that.
> 
> However show me where you can by old spec replacement
> 
> ...


The chainset will be fine.

A tourney derailuer will work and cost a tenner and runs with 6/7 speed just fine, even less for an old long cage mech if you get it from a cycle jumble or recyling project (we charge about a fiver for cleanish ones). There is no need to replace the DT shifters with STI's as has been suggested.

Lots of older spec kit is out there quite cheaply, you dont have to stump up SJS Cycles prices for boutique retro kit.

It might not be a £25 job but under £50 is ceratinly do-able if the tyres and bar tape have been replaced already.


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## bigjim (3 Nov 2011)

> I don't mind spending money replacing parts before they fail.


Easy to say when you have got it isn't it. And it's not always bad kit. It is most of the time the same kit at a better price. It's called market forces.
You're a right harbinger of doom. You must be good fun to go for a pint with. Let the OP go on this journey and enjoy his old bike that just needs a couple of quid spending on it without putting him of by telling him he has to spend loads or else he can't go.


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## vernon (3 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> You must be good fun to go for a pint with.



It's your first correct statement so far.

I'm a much sought after man for parties and outings. How did you know?


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## bigjim (3 Nov 2011)

> It's your first correct statement so far.



Oooooer . Nice to know everything I have said is wrong. Did not know we had got to the I know everything stage already, although I expected it. I knew I should have hung onto your every word and not had the temerity to dare to disagree. We must all now remember to kneel and respect the knowledge of the perfect cyclist. Gosh I think I'm filling up. Sniff.


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## TheDoctor (3 Nov 2011)

FFS. All the OP was after was some sensible advice, not some sort of pissing contest...


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## vernon (4 Nov 2011)

TheDoctor said:


> FFS. All the OP was after was some sensible advice, not some sort of pissing contest...



I used to be able to clear a mini.....


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## tyred (4 Nov 2011)

In answer to the OP, not silly at all, there is world of info on the web through Sheldon Brown and other sites, Old Raleighs were basically very well built and will usually run for ever with minimal care.

There is some excellent advice on this thread if you ignore all the bullshit. To Crankarm, the OP wanted to use his Raleigh, not a new bike from Halfords. It is perfectly possible to rescue and old bike without spending a fortune, I have done it in the past without issues, as have many others. Bikes are basic simple machines and short of driving over it with a road roller, they can usually be revived to useable condition with out the need to spend a fortune.


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## bigjim (4 Nov 2011)

The OP has got a lot of sensible advice and members have gone to the trouble of downloading useful websites that will provide him with a good idea of items that are hopefully within his budget.
All the rest is not any contest, just the usual banter and humour that you would expect when we have a variety of different opinions.
Still wary of sitting near Vernon in the pub though.


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## vernon (4 Nov 2011)

bigjim said:


> Still wary of sitting near Vernon in the pub though.



I'm a cuddly bundle of fun.


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## Crankarm (5 Nov 2011)

tyred said:


> In answer to the OP, not silly at all, there is world of info on the web through Sheldon Brown and other sites, Old Raleighs were basically very well built and will usually run for ever with minimal care.
> 
> There is some excellent advice on this thread if you ignore all the bullshit. To Crankarm, the OP wanted to use his Raleigh, not a new bike from Halfords. It is perfectly possible to rescue and old bike without spending a fortune, I have done it in the past without issues, as have many others. Bikes are basic simple machines and short of driving over it with a road roller, they can usually be revived to useable condition with out the need to spend a fortune.



So where does your bullsh1t figure in the table of bullsh1tters?

Number one I'd say you big nerk. Giving the OP some your pearls of experiece is one thing, but telling me I write bulsh1t is a totally different matter you unpleasant idiot. Sorry to the others but I am sick of ignorant rude internet trolls like you. The OP asked for advice which has been given freely. Just because you don't find my or other posts to your liking doesn't give you the right to tell me I write bullshit. The thread isn't about what YOU think of other's posts and certainly is not an opportunity for you to make unpleasant remarks  .


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## vernon (5 Nov 2011)

Crankarm said:


> So where does your bullsh1t figure in the table of bullsh1tters?
> 
> Number one I'd say you big nerk. Giving the OP some your pearls of experiece is one thing, but telling me I write bulsh1t is a totall different mater you unpleasant idiot.



Chill Crankarm.

Ad hominem attacks are best treated with silence or humour.


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## Crankarm (5 Nov 2011)

This has really annoyed me. I wouldn't have the nerve to write such a post as this idiot has to me when people are clearly considering what the OP has asked. Even if I didn't agree with some one I wouldn't write something so unpleasent. He is just being abnoxious and there is no need for it.


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## Scilly Suffolk (5 Nov 2011)

"CycleChat - A fun and friendly online cycling community"...


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## vernon (5 Nov 2011)

Jimmy The Whiskers said:


> "CycleChat - A fun and friendly online cycling community"...



For those who want it to be....


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## willem (5 Nov 2011)

Hey guys, 
Let me tell you a nice and relevant story. Last week my thirteen year old son needed my pretty crude Dutch style town bike because he now has a job as a newspaperboy. Rather than buy something modern I decided I was really lusting after a nice classic upmarket town bike from the past. I was lucky within a day, and found a 1988 Koga Miyata Country Touring, a lightweight five speed derailleur bike with hub brakes, nothing but quality parts, and a glorious lugged frame with thin walled standard diameter tubing. It had only been used on nice summer days, and it showed.
I paid all of 50 euro for this beauty. It had a good Brooks B66, but I replaced it with a Champion Flyer that I still had and that I prefer. I obviously had to replace the tyres (the front one was still the original tyre I think), the tubes and the knackered pedals, and I still need to replace the brake cables, the chain and the worn freewheel. By the time I am done the total outlay will have been some 200 euro, for a glorious bike that one could only get new these days by going to a custom frame builder.
Willem


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## Scilly Suffolk (5 Nov 2011)

Koga Miyata?

Chapeau!


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## willem (5 Nov 2011)

Bought it from a Koga Miyata dealer in a leafy suburb. It had been traded in for a new and I think horrible Tig welded aluminium Koga. I was told nobody wants these 'old fashioned' bikes anymore.

It was a very nice buy, but not unique. Holland is full of these older Koga beauties that have mostly been used for short trips to the tennis court. Dealers in wealthy suburbs often have them. Plenty of them on www.marktplaats.nl as well, for very low prices. People want new stuff to impress the neighbours.
I have obviously told the story as an example of what you can get, and of how little it costs to get them back in original condition. However, try 'upgrading' them, and you spend a fortune. Anyway, the ride is great, even if the 32 mm max tyres transmit more road buzz than I had become used to with modern wider tyres. Luckily, the road surface here in Holland is mostly very good (and it is only my short distance commuter bike, not my tourer).
Willem


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## yello (5 Nov 2011)

Can I just ask a question about restoring my Raleigh Competition? 








No... ah, okay. 

No, seriously , I would have no qualms about riding it 300km or further. Brakes are, er, 'of the era' shall we say and could do with a little tlc but everything else is in excellent running order despite its age.


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## willem (5 Nov 2011)

Nice bike.... The cheapest and most discreet ways to improve the braking are Koolstop Salmon pads, new quality cables, and if you are prepared to give up some of the the authentic looks, modern aero levers.
Willem


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## Ivan Ardon (8 Nov 2011)

My 13YO (at the time) son and I rode to Paris, gave the bikes away (as part of the plan) and flew home.

I rode a ten speed Raleigh Pioneer, that I found dumped in a hedge in pieces. I reassembled it, regreased the hubs and spent £2.50 on a tyre. My lad's bike was £11 on ebay (Saracen MTB with seized suspension forks). That needed a rear tyre changing which cost me £3.60 and a rack which cost £2 from the dump.

Mechanical problems on the way consisted of one puncture on my bike and, err, that's all. We had a brilliant time.

So, in my experience, it's perfectly possible to tour on crap old bikes. It's only a couple of hundred miles in France, not a trip across the Sahara. If everything collapses in a heap, just get on a bus/train/plane and come back home.


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## bigjim (8 Nov 2011)

Ivan Ardon said:


> My 13YO (at the time) son and I rode to Paris, gave the bikes away (as part of the plan) and flew home.
> 
> I rode a ten speed Raleigh Pioneer, that I found dumped in a hedge in pieces. I reassembled it, regreased the hubs and spent £2.50 on a tyre. My lad's bike was £11 on ebay (Saracen MTB with seized suspension forks). That needed a rear tyre changing which cost me £3.60 and a rack which cost £2 from the dump.
> 
> ...


What a lovely tale. "My 13YO (at the time) son and I rode to Paris". Surely that is what cycling is all about. Your son will remember that for ever. Consider yourself a lucky man.


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## growingvegetables (8 Nov 2011)

Ivan Ardon said:


> My 13YO (at the time) son and I rode to Paris, .........


Yup - that's a brilliant way to do it! Nice one


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## onlineamiga (16 Nov 2011)

mollipop said:


> I'm planning on cycling from London to Paris next year. Only thing with the ride is, I don't have an easy steed. It's a 1985 Raleigh Record Sprint - 12 gears (half of which are knackered, so doing hills is a right bugger!). But I have total faith that she can do it. I've already got myself some SPD pedals and shoes and I'm in the process of remolding the Brooks saddle that came with it, so I'm confident that my bum and my legs won't be too battered by the time I get to the Eiffel Tower.
> 
> I would like to change the gearing though. I went to my favourite bike shop the other day and they tell me that for the price it'll cost to install a new groupset, I may as well buy a new bike. I'm determined that I don't need to buy a whole new bike for this expedition - especially since my only job is a part-time minimum wage one.
> 
> ...






Sorry I havent had chance to read the whole thread. But all I can say is.. Its not silly. .Its damned cool! You should also contact Raleigh and see if they are interested in sponsoring your ride.

If a knackered old 1985 Raleigh can traverse from London to Paris with minimum difficulties, then it just goes to show what solid bikes they are. This is great PR for Raleigh.

My only advice is. Make sure you take plenty of spares and have the skills of a bike mechanic in case stuff does break.



I know a guy who bought an old bike for £50 and cycled it down to Spain. This to me is far more awesome than doing it on an ultra modern brand new expensive purpose built touring bike.


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## vernon (17 Nov 2011)

onlineamiga said:


> I know a guy who bought an old bike for £50 and cycled it down to Spain. This to me is far more awesome than doing it on an ultra modern brand new expensive purpose built touring bike.



What would be really awesome is a brand new £50 Asda special being pedalled down to Spain. Getting there on it would be a bigger challenge than doing it on a £50 old bike.


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## bigjim (17 Nov 2011)

My son has just given me back a £60 Asda/BSO type bike I bought him 2 years ago. He has commuted on it 5 days a week and used it off roading about once a month. During that time I have had to strip, regrease and repack the bearings on the wheels and bottom bracket. It is scratched and battered now as he has never looked after it but the gears are still fine and it is just as rideable as ever. Now he has got a couple of quid he has gone for more bling. So maybe an Asda bike after a proper setup/rebuild and service would make it.


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## zigzag (17 Nov 2011)

i don't see any reason why asda's bso wouldn't make it to spain. if set up properly from the start (greased, lubed, tensioned, adjusted) what can go wrong? knobbly tyres would be a pain to ride on the road, but other than that if the bike is the right size i don't see any major issues.


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## mmmmartin (22 Nov 2011)

For my two penn'orth I suggest joining the local CTC group and going out on a few rides with them and seeing how the bike behaves and what they say about it. With luck you'll be put in touch with an ancient bike fettler who knows more about bikes than Mr Shimano and who probably wrote Sheldon's training manual. The CTC is full of them, fortunately. Alas fettling things yourself seems to be a declining sport in life generally but not in the CTC. There's an awful lot of knowledge there and these will be people who are actually looking at the bike and who have the tools and the knowledge to use them. As in life generally, the CTC is proabably the best place to start.


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## Ticktockmy (4 Dec 2011)

How things have changed, when I was 13 -14 we used to go cycle touring on bikes that wieghted a ton, mine was a Royal Enfield with rod brakes and a single gear, travelled miles from home to youth Hostels, they where the days when Kids where not restricted by child proctetion acts, never had any problems, but now with modern bikes people worry too much about the durablity, I see no reason why a 1950's bike or indeed a Asda £50 bike should make it if it greased up well and maintained to a good standard. As someone suggested join the local ctc group and even the local rough stuff fellowship, cos there is such a wealth of knowledge to be gain from there experainces.


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## Nigeyy (10 Dec 2011)

Well I think this is like any other subject: you mileage may vary, and much may depend on what you can buy for parts and at what price. If you can get cheap good quality components AND you have the tools and mechanical knowledge to install them, then it's worth it. But let's face it, that last sentence is hardly a revelation.

IMHO usually you are better off buying another bike. The cost of replacing individual components just isn't a good value 9 times out of 10, particularly if you are talking drivechains. As someone else pointed out, it's very easy to get carried away -e.g. if you find a bargain set of wheels, you find they might only fit an 8 speed cassette, then you need new shifters, then you might need a new rear derailleur..... really, it's very easy to get sucked in.

For an fyi, attached is a pictue of my refurbished Raleigh SuperCourse. Apologies, but prices are in US dollars as that's where I live, but it should give you an idea.

Basic cost of bike: $220 (Wouldn't normally buy a used bike for this much, but it was a bit nostalgic for me as I grew up close to Carlton so I couldn't resist when I found this on Craigslist.org in a Boston suburb in Massachusetts). The bike came with a fairly new 36h wheelset. The original drivechain was worn and not shifting well. All prices include shipping.

Upgrades:
*Mudguards: VeloOrange Stainless steel: $50 off Amazon
Cane Creek Brake levers: $30 off Amazon
Shimano RSX Crankset and rear derailleur and bottom bracket: take off from another bike, but I'd guess you could find them on Ebay with careful searching for $100
SRAM chain: $25 off Amazon
*Shimano Clipless pedals: again a take off from another bike, but you can get them on Amazon for $35
Sun Race 7 speed index down tube shifters: $20 from Amazon
*Kelly Take Off shifter mounts: $30 from Ebay
Koolstop brake pads: had them already, but can be got for $20
7 speed Shimano freewheel: $15 from Amazon
* **Retro pump: $15 from Amazon
*Retro backpack: $20 from Amazon
Cables: had them already, but approx cost is $20.
Handlebar tape: $15 from Amazon
Handlebars: traded for a stem I already had, could probably find them for $10
Stem: had it already, but I see them for $15 on Ebay.
Rear derailleur adaptor: $10

*not 100% necessary, admittedly
** looks nice, acts useless -you can pump up to 50-60 psi max

Total cost assuming you don't have any parts: $650 -which is about 405 quid -and we haven't talked about racks yet. So you can see it soon adds up -keep in mind this was with careful shopping of parts. However, since I already had some parts, the real cost was $470, or about 290 quid, so even that is a good amount (though granted if you have the bike already and choose not to use Kelly Take Offs or put cheaper mudguards on or the pump or backpack, the cost can easily come down to $175 or about 110 quid.

But that's the point: it's *very, very easy for costs to fluctuate wildly to make it worth your while (or not).* Also keep in mind I do all bike mechanics myself which could be a different hidden cost. On the positive side, I do adore this bike -super smooth and gives me a bit of nostalgia too.


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## spark303 (15 Dec 2011)

I don't see any reason why the Record Spring wouldn't be up to it, as long it was all roadworthy. I completed LEJOG in the summer on my 1983 Raleigh Classic 15 and it never skipped a bit (okay, there was one scary shimmy moment!). I'd have no concerns taking my 1965 Moulton Deluxe or 1948 Raleigh Clubman on long rides either - though the gearing on them might mean I'd have to walk up a few hills.

One thing you should be aware of is that some (maybe all) Raleigh Record Sprints from the 80's had a Maillard Helicomatic rear hub and freewheel. If yours has this combo, and you want to change the freewheel, then you'll need a new rear hub (or wheel) as this is a long obsolete system and you can't fit a standard freewheel onto a Helicomatic hub.


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## bigjim (15 Dec 2011)

I've had 4 Sprints [one hanging in the garage now] and none of them has that hub. I've hanged freewheels on all of them. Completely standard item.


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## Zoiders (15 Dec 2011)

Raleigh never specced the Heliomatic on any of the off the peg Sprints I have seen, it might just have been available as an option in the brochure although by the early 80's the Heliomatic was known to be a bit pants in the reliabilty stakes.

I have seen a lot of Pugs with them fitted with them though.


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## spark303 (15 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Raleigh never specced the Heliomatic on any of the off the peg Sprints I have seen



My Record Sprint unfortunately came with the Helicomatic back in the day, and it was standard spec on 1984 models according to the catalogue here - http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Raleigh84/ral84_09.jpg. 

Obviously they changed the spec over the years


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## Kahuczek (29 Dec 2011)

The helicomatic hub was standard on these for quite sometime, mainly on the model built with the 501 'aero' tubing, it was chosen not for any technical merit*, but for aesthetic reasons, as the hub was black and it's sprockets were available in an anodised gold finish, which complemented the gold anodised chainset, chain, brake calipers/levers, handlebars ..... and of course the gold cable sleeves.

* by this time it's failings were well documented


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## bigjim (29 Dec 2011)

I think these hubs were aimed at the touring cyclist as you only required a very small tool to undo the hub, easily carried on tour. Evidently they are reliable enough if serviced regularly, and they are supposed to be pretty easy to service although parts are now scarce. Having said all that I would not tour with one, but commuting etc, fine.


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## Kahuczek (29 Dec 2011)

They were a good idea, badly executed ... I had one, it wore like the clappers ....


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## bigjim (29 Dec 2011)

> They were a good idea, badly executed ... I had one, it wore like the clappers ..


You were supposed to grease them


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## Kahuczek (30 Dec 2011)

Manufacturing tolerances were sloppy leading to premature wear, they were low cost components, as was the rest of the Maillard range, not built to last, but very affordable ...


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