# Sick of Speeding Cars!



## Joffey (12 Mar 2018)

We live on a main road in a 30mph zone but everyone ignores it. So I made a video about it.

The video is rubbish and I'm not sure how reliable those lamp post speed traps are but I counted 33 cars out of 50 in 12 minutes speeding.

Anyone else have the same bother near them? Police aren't very interested in the problem which is a shame.


View: https://youtu.be/nLWUvLuYhRA


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## Drago (12 Mar 2018)

Yep, I'm a firm believe that all vehicles should have GPS speed limiters. Old Bill would love to finger every last one of them, but its a question of resources and political will.


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## mjr (12 Mar 2018)

40mph on my street, just north of staggered crossroads, blind bends and a narrow bridge. Average speed reported as 38.5mph despite it coming to a standstill most rush hours, so it seems all the motorists doing well over 40 nearly cancel that out. Thank fark there's a cycleway so I don't have to ride on it at night.

Service Road outside my house is often used for Police stops, including spotter+catcher blitzes, so I know they're catching some, but there seems an inexhaustible supply of criminal motorists.


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## subaqua (12 Mar 2018)

Met police have actually said in community meetings the 20mph zone I live in is unenforceable ... 

They tried to clarify it was to do with signage . Till I shamed them with google maps streetview...


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## Drago (12 Mar 2018)

Should make all motoring offences ones for which you lose you licence. None of this points crap. 28 day instant disqual for speeding, double on the second offence etc. No stupid arguments about hardship etc - they should have thought about that before being anti social and endangering those around d them. Everyone in front of a Court is sorry AFTER they've been Court - tough t**, too late, would be my view when I'm Lord Protector.


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## Welsh wheels (12 Mar 2018)

People will continue to speed as long as it's socially acceptable. The situation isnt helped by the rubbish that the likes of Jeremy Clarkson spout.


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## glasgowcyclist (12 Mar 2018)

You need one of these...





https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/23332/mystery-mum-wins-support-for-fake-speed-camera.html

The attendant publicity when the authorities tell you to take it down might be useful in shaming them into taking steps to reduce the problem.


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## Randomnerd (12 Mar 2018)

Go back to your plod - someone with more clout, and present them with some facts. Latest I could find for NYrks, but there must be new data http://www.roadcrashindex.org/results/n-yorkshire-south-of-teesside/safety-rank
If you are serious about getting something to change make a noise locally. I live close to the A19 in North Yorkshire, and have to wobble up and down it for a mile or so with cars buzzing me within two feet at seventy mph. I make lots of noise about it to local councillors who try to get help, and we've had success in some places with traffic management, but the whole drift of roads is to make everything safer and swifter for the car user. Our forty mph is ignored all day by bikers, and the whole village goes everywhere by car it seems: no-one walks except to empty the dog. 
Culture shift required.
Get a neighbour to donate a hedge and stick a yellow box on top it.
Cut out some plywood children silhouettes and plant them on the verge. Get local school active.


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## classic33 (12 Mar 2018)

subaqua said:


> Met police have actually said in community meetings the 20mph zone I live in is unenforceable ...
> 
> They tried to clarify it was to do with signage . Till I shamed them with google maps streetview...


That may well be true. What size shoe do you take?


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## subaqua (12 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> That may well be true. What size shoe do you take?



Same as my mental age .. 10.5 or my European mental age 44


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## classic33 (12 Mar 2018)

Check the sign size with your shoe..


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## jefmcg (12 Mar 2018)

subaqua said:


> Met police have actually said in community meetings the 20mph zone I live in is unenforceable ...


I've heard that, and I think it means they don't have equipment calibrated to record speeds under 30.

But if you are caught travelling at 35 in a 30 zone it's a FPN, but if it's a 20mph zone, then it's a summons. I imagine that would have a sobering effect.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-offences-guidance-fixed-penalty-notices


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## screenman (12 Mar 2018)

It will get worse in places as the signs are hiding in the overgrown shrubbery.


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## Joffey (12 Mar 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> You need one of these...
> 
> View attachment 399689
> 
> ...



That’s a great idea!


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## pawl (13 Mar 2018)

[QUOTE 5180398, member: 43827"]Round where I live I think most people believe 30mph is either the recommended or the minimum speed that people should drive, rather than the max.[/QUOTE]


Same goes for 60and 70 limits.


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## steveindenmark (13 Mar 2018)

I sympathise with your problem. But it sounds a bit like people who complain about golf balls landing in their garden when they buy a house next to a golf course.

Didnt you envisage this problem when you moved into the house?


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## Nigel-YZ1 (13 Mar 2018)

I've got one of the main Manchester bound roads nearby. 90mph+ among the egotank and beemer brigade is quite common.

I work on Burton Road in Barnsley. Never had a camera near it but 60 in a 30 is common too.

No one can afford to enforce limits these days.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Mar 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> I sympathise with your problem. But it sounds a bit like people who complain about golf balls landing in their garden when they buy a house next to a golf course.
> 
> Didnt you envisage this problem when you moved into the house?



Mishitting a golf ball isn't illegal, nor is it part of a national problem in road safety. Speeding occurs on every road so your position would mean that nobody, anywhere, can legitimately complain about it. That's bonkers.


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## jefmcg (13 Mar 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Mishitting a golf ball isn't illegal, nor is it part of a national problem in road safety. Speeding occurs on every road so your position would mean that nobody, anywhere, can legitimately complain about it. That's bonkers.


Yes. If you buy a house next to a pub, you can't complain about conversational noise from the beer garden at 10pm, but you can still complain about people vomiting in your garden.


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## Jody (13 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> It will get worse in places as the signs are hiding in the overgrown shrubbery.



Which then allows the person speeding to get off on appeal.


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## Joffey (13 Mar 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> I sympathise with your problem. But it sounds a bit like people who complain about golf balls landing in their garden when they buy a house next to a golf course.
> 
> Didnt you envisage this problem when you moved into the house?



The road was much busier when we moved but we only moved here as there was a bypass under construction that we thought would reduce traffic on the road. It has, greatly, but there is a real problem with speeding in our area as we have a few roads that lead off from the A1M. Drivers seem to still think they can drive at motorway speeds in residential areas.

It is not just our road, it is many others and residents have been campaigning to the police for months now but all it has resulted in is a speed detection van appearing once in another part of the village.

I don't mind the sound of cars driving past the house (I used to live near a railway line and that was worse) but the lack of action by the police in our area is annoying when the problem is so obvious.


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## Joffey (13 Mar 2018)

[QUOTE 5180860, member: 9609"]The police could self fund out of motoring crime then the policing budget could be redirected to the NHS, its a no brainer - @philiphammond[/QUOTE]

Bosh a speed camera up on our road and it would fund itself many times over but we have ZERO speed cameras in North Yorkshire as far as I know.


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## Drago (13 Mar 2018)

Jody said:


> Which then allows the person speeding to get off on appeal.



No, not a defense. A driver is expected to know from the nature and status of the road and the surrounding environment what the speed limit is. The only time it works as a defence is where the speed limit is contrary to the regular convention. 

For example, an out of town dual carriageway defaults to 70, and as a driver its your responsibility to know that. The absent or obscured signage defence won't wash. However, on the same hypothetical dual carriageway it might drop to 40 near a busy junction or roundabout. This is contrary to the national convention, and you would have a defence there if the signs were missing. That's the exception though, not the rule.



Joffey said:


> Bosh a speed camera up on our road and it would fund itself many times over but we have ZERO speed cameras in North Yorkshire as far as I know.



Not exactly. The government rules on how the dibble can spend money raised in this manner are very odd. They must be spent on speed enforcement. So workshops, training, speed guns, police cars expressely for road safety teams, etc are all on the menu. However, it can not be spent on police salaries, so is of no use whatsoever in getting officers to actually use this kit and do the deed, or on civilian staff to process the burgeoning level of admin that the increased enforcement activity brings. The bottom line remains falling staffing levels, and the income can not legally be used to address that.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2018)

Welsh wheels said:


> People will continue to speed as long as it's socially acceptable. The situation isnt helped by the rubbish that the likes of Jeremy Clarkson spout.


Here here! I also think tools like Clarkson and that pillock "the Hamster" encourage middle aged boy racers to break the law,like it's just a bit of fun. Clarkson lives in a converted lighthouse(or did when i last heard). He fought to keep people well away from his property. How would he like speeding cars passing his home,doing 50/60 mph?!


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2018)

It's the same here. Like others,i wish i could film it to show you. I live about 18 feet from a busy A(or is it B?)road. Anyway,it's one of 3 main roads leading into and out of this town. I'd say at least 60% are doing over the 30mph limit. At night,when the road is quieter,it's even worse. Boy racers doing those what i call dragster sprints,where they accelerate up to about 60 mph for a few seconds,then drop to about 40 as they approach a humpback hill, is the norm. And don't even think about stepping onto the crossing which is just outside my flat. The last time i did was just before Christmas. There i was with a high viz jacket on,waiting for the traffic to slow down so i could cross the road. The car on my right stopped so i set off,making eye contact with the driver approaching on my left. He was slowing down,but as i got halfway across he accelerated and drove over the crossing,missing me by about 2 feet. Scumbag!! I looked at him. He wasn't even a boy racer,more of a pensioner. Senile,ignorant or just hates stopping for pedestrians,i don't know,but i haven't tried to use that crossing since and i won't be doing again!

Edit... I even gave the scumbag a you are a self-gratification artist sign,hoping he'd stop for a confrontation so i could tell him what i thought of his driving,but he didn't. I think the old git was totally unaware of his surroundings.


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## Arjimlad (13 Mar 2018)

There's a few community speed watch groups in my area. Might be worth doing for a while to see if it has any effect.

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/what-we-do/road-policing/community-speed-watch/


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## Drago (13 Mar 2018)

Arjimlad said:


> There's a few community speed watch groups in my area. Might be worth doing for a while to see if it has any effect.
> 
> https://northyorkshire.police.uk/what-we-do/road-policing/community-speed-watch/



It does nothing more than distract them so they don't moan so much at the Feds.


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## steveindenmark (13 Mar 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Mishitting a golf ball isn't illegal, nor is it part of a national problem in road safety. Speeding occurs on every road so your position would mean that nobody, anywhere, can legitimately complain about it. That's bonkers.


That is not what I meant and I think you know that. If you have a house next to a main road it will be no surprise to see speeding cars. If that bothers you maybe it would be best to buy a house in a quiet street. You can of course complain about the cars. Its your right. But you wont stop it happening totally.


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## PeteXXX (13 Mar 2018)

What aggravates me is that I drive within the speed limit, and on it if conditions suite, in both car and 44 tonne artic, and am usually harassed by impatient tw*ts driving a couple of inches from my boot in the hope, I assume, to push me into driving faster. 
It doesn’t work.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Mar 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> That is not what I meant and I think you know that.



Well it was a poor analogy, as I'm not the only person who took that from what you wrote.
I wouldn't knowingly twist your meaning if another was intended.



steveindenmark said:


> If you have a house next to a main road it will be no surprise to see speeding cars. If that bothers you maybe it would be best to buy a house in a quiet street.



Frankly, that's even more bonkers than your previous post!
It doesn't (ok, maybe _shouldn't_) make any difference where someone lives, whether it's near a main road or a quiet side street. Not everyone gets to choose.



steveindenmark said:


> You can of course complain about the cars. Its your right. But you wont stop it happening totally.



Nobody has said, or expected, that it would be stopped completely.


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## Tizme (13 Mar 2018)

The point is, surely, that "everyone" speeds and if you are like me (nicknamed Captain Slow by the lads at work) and keep to the limits you are, like PeteXXX said, tailgated in an attempt to intimidate me into driving faster.

I was once at a Xmas social where several of those present had recently been caught speeding (thanks to a recent and very rare, purge). All were complaining how unfair it was, one lady was incensed that her husband, "a very good driver," had been caught doing 45mph, they all agreed with her, until someone else pointed out that he had been in a 30mph limit!


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2018)

PeteXXX said:


> What aggravates me is that I drive within the speed limit, and on it if conditions suite, in both car and 44 tonne artic, and am usually harassed by impatient tw*ts driving a couple of inches from my boot in the hope, I assume, to push me into driving faster.
> It doesn’t work.


Having spent more time cycling than driving up to this year,i can now say that the actions of pillocks intimidating me,while i'm cycling,to "get out my effin way",don't faze me, now i drive more than cycle. In fact i quite enjoy it. They'll come up so close that i can't see their headlights in my rear view mirror,which according to my driving instructor 40 years ago means they're driving far too close to you. When this happens i drop my speed even more. What can they do? Absolutely sweet FA,apart from ram you. They won't do that unless they're totally demented,as they love their precious cars too much to harm them.
On a bike i feared these scumbags. In a car i quite like winding them up,and helping to keep speeds down of course!


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## jefmcg (13 Mar 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> That is not what I meant and I think you know that.


Well @glasgowcyclist may well "know that", but I can't understand the subtlety here. Complaining about people behaving in a legal way that is to be expected in a location is somehow the same as complaining about people breaking the law? So the millions of people who have** to live on A and B roads have no right to even complain about law breakers.

Sorry, you've lost me.

**yeah, "have". Maybe the OP could have chosen a different address, but the UK does not have enough housing stock. Someone *has *to live on every major (non-motorway) route in this country.


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## Drago (13 Mar 2018)

Tizme said:


> The point is, surely, that "everyone" speeds...



No, never. Nearly three decades of scraping pillocks off the tarmac put me off speeding. On top of that, points on my licence meant disciplinary trouble at work. Decades of enforced good behaviour, its now utterly inraimed.


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## classic33 (13 Mar 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> That is not what I meant and I think you know that. If you have a house next to a main road it will be no surprise to see speeding cars. If that bothers you maybe it would be best to buy a house in a quiet street. You can of course complain about the cars. Its your right. But you wont stop it happening totally.


Live on a street open to traffic from one end only. Still get cars speeding in the 75 yard length. Noisy ones as well.


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## Tim Hall (14 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> No, never. Nearly three decades of scraping pillocks off the tarmac put me off speeding. On top of that, points on my licence meant disciplinary trouble at work. Decades of enforced good behaviour, its now utterly inraimed.


Likewise. Although (thankfully) I've not had a job involving scraping pillocks off the tarmac.


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## mjr (14 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Live on a street open to traffic from one end only. Still get cars speeding in the 75 yard length. Noisy ones as well.


Yes, I've done similar. I've also lived on a road where it was physically impossible to break the speed limit due to blind hairpins with rocks and stone walls on the outsides of the bends, but that didn't seem to stop them trying and meant more work for @Drago's former colleagues scraping pillocks off the rocks. But I guess I shouldn't complain because I chose to live on a street where people drive into rockfaces.


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## Tizme (14 Mar 2018)

I fear that the majority (where I said "everyone") see no harm in exceeding the speed limit, mainly because they are cocooned in a lump of metal with every conceivable safety device _for their safety_ and the idea that they could maim or kill someone with this lump of metal does not enter into their thought process. 

It would be interesting to know how many cyclists, when driving, keep to the speed limits and do actually consider the safety of other road users. I certainly think that the number would be far greater than average. 

Driving home from Bristol on Saturday I was behind a car with a sticker on the back, it said: "Life sucks, I'd like to driver faster but I have a black box fitted to the car..." I stopped reading after that!


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## davidphilips (15 Mar 2018)

Have to say when on my own i like to try and speed (on a bike) but as for driving never and the never should really have a capital N and as for drivers tailgating me, some in the dark with there lights on full, well this again happened last night when i was driving along a twisty country road (40mph speed limit) well my view is if the driver would do that to another car what would they behave like if a cyclist was in front of them?
Know its wrong but i put on my fog lights and slowed to 30mph and just watch the road in front of me sod them. If some nit made me speed and either i was stopped for speeding or i had an accident would the driver behind me take the blame.


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## crazyjoe101 (15 Mar 2018)

What really annoys me is when cycling close to, at, or over the speed limit; More often than not the car following you will overtake regardless. Similarly, cycling on a residential street with speed bumps where the limit is 20, cycling at 15-18mph you will get drivers who smash on the accelerator to nip past you, draw alongside and then realise that they can't hit the speed bump at 25/30mph and then slam on the brakes and wonder why there is a cyclists blocking their spot on the road next to them...



Tizme said:


> It would be interesting to know how many cyclists, when driving, keep to the speed limits and do actually consider the safety of other road users. I certainly think that the number would be far greater than average.


I think I'd tend to agree with that, I don't drive myself but have caught many a lift to/from events from other cyclists and none of them were prone to speeding unlike friends and family who do not cycle - this is anecdotal of course.


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## screenman (15 Mar 2018)

Tizme said:


> I fear that the majority (where I said "everyone") see no harm in exceeding the speed limit, mainly because they are cocooned in a lump of metal with every conceivable safety device _for their safety_ and the idea that they could maim or kill someone with this lump of metal does not enter into their thought process.
> 
> It would be interesting to know how many cyclists, when driving, keep to the speed limits and do actually consider the safety of other road users. I certainly think that the number would be far greater than average.
> 
> Driving home from Bristol on Saturday I was behind a car with a sticker on the back, it said: "Life sucks, I'd like to driver faster but I have a black box fitted to the car..." I stopped reading after that!



You got good eyesight. I seldom drive close enough to read a reg number. Some of the worst car journeys I have had have been with cyclists driving the car.


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## keithmac (15 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> Yep, I'm a firm believe that all vehicles should have GPS speed limiters. Old Bill would love to finger every last one of them, but its a question of resources and political will.



They do this in Japan, GTR-35's etc are only delimited on designated race circuits, makes perfect sense really.


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## classic33 (15 Mar 2018)

crazyjoe101 said:


> What really annoys me is when cycling close to, at, or over the speed limit; More often than not the car following you will overtake regardless. Similarly, cycling on a residential street with speed bumps where the limit is 20, cycling at 15-18mph you will get drivers who smash on the accelerator to nip past you, draw alongside and then realise that they can't hit the speed bump at 25/30mph and then slam on the brakes and wonder why there is a cyclists blocking their spot on the road next to them...


Or when they realise there's something bigger coming the other way and they can't pass.


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## screenman (15 Mar 2018)

In 2013 2.2 million cars were sold and 3.3 million bikes, I would imagine a lot of cars are driven by cyclist.


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## bigjim (16 Mar 2018)

I'm always confused why speed cameras are hi-viz? I'd disguise them all, so drivers had no idea where they were. Can you imagine how much money that would make or how it would slow the maniacs down.


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## jefmcg (16 Mar 2018)

bigjim said:


> I'm always confused why speed cameras are hi-viz? I'd disguise them all, so drivers had no idea where they were. Can you imagine how much money that would make or how it would slow the maniacs down.


They used to dull grey, and then (back in the early aughts) there was a campaign in the tabloid press that this was somehow unfair to motorists. I could never get my head around the argument, but the government accepted it and they were all wrapped in yellow.

I remember some wag writing to a paper and saying that anyone caught by one should also get "driving without due care and attention" as well, because you'd have to be blind not to seem them.


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## mjr (16 Mar 2018)

jefmcg said:


> They used to dull grey, and then (back in the early aughts) there was a campaign in the tabloid press that this was somehow unfair to motorists. I could never get my head around the argument, but the government accepted it and they were all wrapped in yellow.


You mean it wasn't an official astroturf campaign to get them painted in what's turned out to be blue/yellow dazzle camo?






For comparison, here's how the Austrians paint theirs to hide them:





According to wikipedia, the yellow requirement was dropped in 2007, but the recent (approved 2014) small d-cam I saw this week still has a mostly-yellow top section on a blue pole.

ETA image source


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## crazyjoe101 (16 Mar 2018)

I like the average speed cameras, they are a right PITA for people who want to speed.


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## oldwheels (17 Mar 2018)

I drive regularly between Aberdeen and Perth. This road is littered with speed cameras including average speed ones. Since this introduction I think traffic flows much better as speed of all traffic is steady without the bam pots constantly pushing to overtake. I still wonder about the cycle time trials on this road tho’ I have only seen them early on Sunday mornings when traffic is generally lighter anyway. Where I live the street has 20 mph signs up.I think drivers misread these to mean 50 mph but just upside down.


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## Tizme (17 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> You got good eyesight. I seldom drive close enough to read a reg number.


I was stopped at traffic lights when I read the sticker.


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## jarlrmai (19 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> In 2013 2.2 million cars were sold and 3.3 million bikes, I would imagine a lot of cars are driven by cyclist.



Do these figures include an age breakdown of the intended user, I would hazard a guess that a lot for those bikes are ridden by children and a fair few of the ones sold for adults are currently taking up room in a shed and gathering dust.


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## screenman (19 Mar 2018)

jarlrmai said:


> Do these figures include an age breakdown of the intended user, I would hazard a guess that a lot for those bikes are ridden by children and a fair few of the ones sold for adults are currently taking up room in a shed and gathering dust.



Not a clue, but I know everyone of my cycling buddies drive a car or two.


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## jarlrmai (19 Mar 2018)

You should let the office of national statistics know so they can adjust accordingly.


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## cougie uk (16 May 2022)

Joffey said:


> We live on a main road in a 30mph zone but everyone ignores it. So I made a video about it.
> 
> The video is rubbish and I'm not sure how reliable those lamp post speed traps are but I counted 33 cars out of 50 in 12 minutes speeding.
> 
> ...




Very late to the thread but I just came across a Speederbot account on Twitter. 
It sources the average speed of mobile phones in an area that you set, and then will tweet every time a phone is detected going faster than the speed you select. 

Might help your case as it'll show if speeding is an issue on that road ?


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## ClichéGuevara (16 May 2022)

bigjim said:


> I'm always confused why speed cameras are hi-viz? I'd disguise them all, so drivers had no idea where they were. Can you imagine how much money that would make or how it would slow the maniacs down.



I get confused by them advertising where the cameras are going to be in operation, but then prosecuting drivers that warn other drivers that there's a speed camera ahead. 

If the goal is to reduce the traffic speed, what's the difference?


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## mjr (16 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I get confused by them advertising where the cameras are going to be in operation, but then prosecuting drivers that warn other drivers that there's a speed camera ahead.
> 
> If the goal is to reduce the traffic speed, what's the difference?


Is the goal to reduce traffic speed to the limit everywhere ( in which case don't advertise them) or at a few hotspots?


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## ClichéGuevara (16 May 2022)

mjr said:


> Is the goal to reduce traffic speed to the limit everywhere ( in which case don't advertise them) or at a few hotspots?



Looking at where they put them around here, it's simply to make money, as they're not in accident hotspots. 

One regular spot is just a few 100m from a national speed dual carriageway, with no turn offs before it and the next set of lights best part of 100 miles away. They put the van on a slip road, meaning along with the distraction, it's probably far more of a danger than having nothing at all. Most of the accidents have been on the opposite carriageway, which has a sharp bend on a flyover, that often has standing traffic, and I've never seen a camera in that direction.


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## mjr (16 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Looking at where they put them around here, it's simply to make money, as they're not in accident hotspots.


If motorists obey the law, it raises no money.


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## ClichéGuevara (16 May 2022)

mjr said:


> If motorists obey the law, it raises no money.



Very true, but it doesn't make the claim that they're 'safety cameras' any less dishonest. 

The shift to the cameras also means that they miss an awful lot that a Policeman pulling you over would pick up on, plus they can't cope with changes in conditions, and would see 70mph on black ice or in fog as acceptable. 

They rely to a fair extent on people believing they're performing a social function.


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## Time Waster (16 May 2022)

The genius who came up with the idea to put speed camera signs up everywhere needs to be knighted. There's so many dotted around and often nowhere near cameras that the people who are likely to speed ignore them. So when there is a camera, fixed or mobile unit, they are possibly more likely to get caught. 

We live on a road that has houses on one side of the road as it leads ivy the village. There's a slow road out of the village until after the train station and a road that Ts into it. From that point a lot of drivers floor it until there's a line of parked cars and it's slow again. Then they speed up past our house before more parked cars then the open road. All cars end up 30 to 40mph with some looking like 60mph between slow sections. It got changed from 30mph to 20mph last year. Nobody sticks to 20mph.

Earlier this year they put one chicane in going out, further out from our house. At times it has looked like the car without right of way not stopping. However our van with right of way caused a hesitation and emergency stop. If we were cycling there he v wouldn't have I'm certain. 

During consultation stage we told them the single chicane would not do much. We said the only thing to slow cars would be speed bumps. Only the fear of damaging their speeding car would keep people to under the limit and only if there's a few along the road, proven right there. 

My partner got worried by the speeding cars, bear in mind it's almost 100% of cars, so parked our old, big seat on the road. It basically created another chicane and slow spot. If every long run stretch had the odd car parked on the road it would slow traffic. It certainly did that by our house. Only trouble is we scrapped it a few weekends ago as we didn't use it and there's a water leak that meant we didn't like to drive it. 

Councils know where their speeding problem areas are but budgets mean they don't want to spend to provide a working solution when a very cheap option will allow them to say they listened and responded to local concerns. Plus I suspect cars are king and they don't want to pee off the motorists. Can't slow them down.

As to the late night boy racers drag racing... well does anyone know how to build a homemade stinger?


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## Joffey (17 May 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Very late to the thread but I just came across a Speederbot account on Twitter.
> It sources the average speed of mobile phones in an area that you set, and then will tweet every time a phone is detected going faster than the speed you select.
> 
> Might help your case as it'll show if speeding is an issue on that road ?



Sounds interesting! Cheers!


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## mjr (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Very true, but it doesn't make the claim that they're 'safety cameras' any less dishonest.


No, but it does highlight that calling them "money spinners" is misleading. 

We should have both traffic police and speed cameras. And red light and yellow box and crossing cameras. Motorists on average will take liberties away from walkers, cyclists and residents whenever not deterred.


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## ClichéGuevara (17 May 2022)

mjr said:


> No, but it does highlight that calling them "money spinners" is misleading.
> 
> We should have both traffic police and speed cameras. And red light and yellow box and crossing cameras. Motorists on average will take liberties away from walkers, cyclists and residents whenever not deterred.



I disagree. They're put in places where it could be argued that the speed limit isn't correct anyway, such as the slip road I mentioned. They don't seem to be in places that are accident blackspots, so safety camera is by far a bigger misnomer than cash cow or money spinner.

They get more news because those sort of traffic infringements are easier to 'Police' than the many that are committed by walkers and cyclists, which skews perceptions.

If they were successful at reducing speeding, they'd be self defeating, as they wouldn't raise the revenue required to operate them.


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## Joffey (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I disagree. They're put in places where it could be argued that the speed limit isn't correct anyway, such as the slip road I mentioned. They don't seem to be in places that are accident blackspots, so safety camera is by far a bigger misnomer than cash cow or money spinner.
> 
> They get more news because those sort of traffic infringements are easier to 'Police' than the many that are committed by walkers and cyclists, which skews perceptions.
> 
> If they were successful at reducing speeding, they'd be self defeating, as they wouldn't raise the revenue required to operate them.



If people didn't commit offences it wouldn't matter where they placed the cameras.


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## ClichéGuevara (17 May 2022)

Joffey said:


> If people didn't commit offences it wouldn't matter where they placed the cameras.



Way to go in ignoring most of what I put, just to push a very narrow agenda.


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## Phaeton (17 May 2022)

Time Waster said:


> During consultation stage we told them the single chicane would not do much. We said the only thing to slow cars would be speed bumps. Only the fear of damaging their speeding car would keep people to under the limit and only if there's a few along the road, proven right there.



I personally think this is a misnomer, the people who speed rarely care about their cars, so they won't slow down unless they are so severe they cause damage to the 99% of the law abiding drivers.

There are 2 quite close to where we live they are so severe anything over 10mph is going to cause damage, the only way to get over them with a horse trailer or caravan is to straggle the humps so the jockey wheel goes between them. 

There's been at least 3 accidents I know of where a car has suddenly braked from 30 to 10 when they have seen how severe they are only to be rear ended, okay the following drivers fault, but not a very good safety measure that causes accidents.

Don't get me wrong I'm against speeding I bring it up at the Parish Council meeting most months but I don't think humps are the answer.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> They get more news because those sort of traffic infringements are easier to 'Police' than the many that are committed by walkers



What are the many traffic infringements being made by walkers and what’s your evidence?


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## Joffey (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Way to go in ignoring most of what I put, just to push a very narrow agenda.



My agenda?


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## cougie uk (17 May 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I personally think this is a misnomer, the people who speed rarely care about their cars, so they won't slow down unless they are so severe they cause damage to the 99% of the law abiding drivers.
> 
> There are 2 quite close to where we live they are so severe anything over 10mph is going to cause damage, the only way to get over them with a horse trailer or caravan is to straggle the humps so the jockey wheel goes between them.
> 
> ...



I think the vast majority of people do care about their cars - and there's plenty of very flashy and expensive cars that speed. 

With technology these days speed cameras must pay for themselves in no time.


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## Phaeton (17 May 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I think the vast majority of people do care about their cars - and there's plenty of very flashy and expensive cars that speed.
> 
> With technology these days speed cameras must pay for themselves in no time.



The point I was trying to make very badly clearly is that a good proportion of the speeders don't care about their cars, quite often because they are not theirs, either a company car or owned by the lease company. Speed humps I feel penailse the law abiding driver more than those that speed, I'd like to see stricter penalties imposed, walking towards the school to pick my granddaughter up a car went through one of these speed check units. 58mph it registered this, is less than 400 metres from the school, I'd be happy to see that driver lose their license immediately.


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## cougie uk (17 May 2022)

Phaeton said:


> The point I was trying to make very badly clearly is that a good proportion of the speeders don't care about their cars, quite often because they are not theirs, either a company car or owned by the lease company. Speed humps I feel penailse the law abiding driver more than those that speed, I'd like to see stricter penalties imposed, walking towards the school to pick my granddaughter up a car went through one of these speed check units. 58mph it registered this, is less than 400 metres from the school, I'd be happy to see that driver lose their license immediately.



That's outrageous. Should lose their licence and freedom for that. 

Traffic round schools are awful with the amount of kids being picked up by cars anyway. Good on you for walking - lot of lazy people out there - even with fuel prices through the roof. 

Pretty sure that you still need to look after lease cars ? I know you have to pay an excess for extra mileage over that agreed so you must pay more if it's missing a wing or something.


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## matticus (17 May 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Pretty sure that you still need to look after lease cars ? I know you have to pay an excess for extra mileage over that agreed so you must pay more if it's missing a wing or something.



Maybe, but you ain't gonna care how often the shocks need replacing, or the tyres, brake-pads etc ...

[I've always wondered if the suspensions parts makers are bribing the folks who plan "speed-calming" devices ... ]


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## mjr (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I disagree. They're put in places where it could be argued that the speed limit isn't correct anyway, such as the slip road I mentioned. They don't seem to be in places that are accident blackspots, so safety camera is by far a bigger misnomer than cash cow or money spinner.


That is probably a problem in your local area. The nearest one to me has been placed on an accident hotspot (a staggered crossroads) when local residents (including me) feel it would be better sited on the approach to it because that's where people speed, arriving at the hotspot unable to stop within what they can see to be clear - as is common, with many drivers now seemingly driving so fast that they can only stop within what they can't see to be obstructed yet.



> They get more news because those sort of traffic infringements are easier to 'Police' than the many that are committed by walkers and cyclists, which skews perceptions.


 It would be very easy to sit on any major cycle commuting route just after sunset and catch people for lack of lights, "chipped" e-bike motors and defective brakes, and create a big local newspaper splash for doing so, but it would have almost no effect on road casualty rates.

As for walkers, I struggle to think what "traffic infringements" they can commit apart from obstructing traffic which is very rare outside protests.

The reason why motorists are policed more is that they kill and injure more. Even then, policing is not proportionate to harm or offending.



> If they were successful at reducing speeding, they'd be self defeating, as they wouldn't raise the revenue required to operate them.


I think we pay a five-figure revenue sum to fund Norfolk camera operations, as well as the five-figure installation capital cost. Again, maybe this varies by area and some areas aren't willing to fund hotspot cameras. I can see why revenue-neutral cameras would be troublesome.


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## mjr (17 May 2022)

matticus said:


> Maybe, but you ain't gonna care how often the shocks need replacing, or the tyres, brake-pads etc ...
> 
> [I've always wondered if the suspensions parts makers are bribing the folks who plan "speed-calming" devices ... ]


There is a standard design now (since 2008 I think) for speed humps which are "sinusoidal" which are almost untroubling to bicycles, minor to motorists passing at the recommended speed and sickening for fast motorists. I only remember encountering them in Cambridgeshire so far, though. On my last drive in Northamptonshire, taking a speed hump at between 5 and 10mph caused a part to fall off my car! I think it was £40 to cut the rest of it off and put a new one on... you may be on to something!


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## matticus (17 May 2022)

Our Sainsburys car-park has some reeeeeeally fearsome humps. You have to think quite carefully when_ riding_ over them, and there is always a scraping noise somewhere from a car being "coerced" over one of the things! Presumably private land, so much less stringent regs.


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## Solocle (17 May 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I disagree. They're put in places where it could be argued that the speed limit isn't correct anyway, such as the slip road I mentioned. They don't seem to be in places that are accident blackspots, so safety camera is by far a bigger misnomer than cash cow or money spinner.
> 
> They get more news because those sort of traffic infringements are easier to 'Police' than the many that are committed by walkers and cyclists, which skews perceptions.
> 
> If they were successful at reducing speeding, they'd be self defeating, as they wouldn't raise the revenue required to operate them.



Passed a mobile camera yesterday here. 40 limit dual carriageway, it used to be 50 (and before that 70!!), but was reduced because of a collision record.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.728...4!1sI5L49Q-sg_T6zQI37F50qg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And yet the local council removed this modal filter despite the junction being a serious accident blackspot, and don't enforce the 20 limit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.727...4!1sPixI0TnLDaa7RsqTGJDJvw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

When queried about this it's basically driven by the number of collisions, which wasn't high enough to justify further intervention...

Without considering the volume of traffic involved, this leads to ridiculous situations where you have main roads with reduced limits, but country lanes with NSL. This can have unexpected traffic management effects:





The C12 is preferred to the A352. This is actually very sensible - the A352 has a number of villages along it. The C12 is a high quality road that's mostly NSL.




But the bypassing of Dorchester is down a narrow country lane. Google maps is seeing "it's 60 innit".

Dropping speed limits on residential roads is heavily offset if you then stick low speed limits on the non-residential main roads, and put the enforcement there.


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