# Help needed with Bianchi gearing



## stevevw (13 Apr 2009)

I have just bought a Bianchi Pista. Which should arrive in the next few days. I know the gearing is going to be toooooo high for me at 48/16. But I have no idea what gearing I am going to need and what parts I will need to change. I know the front ring is a Truitiv 48t but no idea on chain size or what rear gear I will need. Any advise would be great.

Cheers Steve


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## spandex (13 Apr 2009)

I would just wait until it comes and then test ride it to find out what is needing to be done.


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## Auntie Helen (13 Apr 2009)

Another new bike! 

You've only just built a new one!!

What's next on the shopping list, a recumbent?


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## 4F (13 Apr 2009)

Steve stick with it and give it a go, if you don't get on with you could always stick an 18 on the back. I am running 48 x 16 and with Dudi today we went out and did a 100 mile ride.


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## MacB (13 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Steve stick with it and give it a go, if you don't get on with you could always stick an 18 on the back. I am running 48 x 16 and with Dudi today we went out and did a 100 mile ride.




100 miles on a fixie? I'm getting seriously worried about you FFFF! A few short weeks ago you were a regular cyclist, now you've metamorphasised into some sort of Fixie nutter. Is there a link, addict, fix? I'm seeing a pattern here


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## spandex (13 Apr 2009)

And what is wrong with 100miles on a Fixie? to me it sounds like grate fun


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## MacB (13 Apr 2009)

spandex said:


> And what is wrong with 100miles on a Fixie? to me it sounds like grate fun



probably the fact that I find rides tough enough on gears and am extremely jealous of those doing so much better than I am. FFFF knows the score, I'm going to end up with a fixed sometime just because I can't be outdone by him that badly

I reckon I could ride fixed now, maybe a 26x34


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## spandex (13 Apr 2009)




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## spandex (13 Apr 2009)

BTW my single speed is 46/16 and is just right for the Yorkshire hills.


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## MajorMantra (13 Apr 2009)

48/18 is a good all-round gear. It's big enough that you can go fast (just under 36mph or just over 170rpm is the best I've managed so far) and small enough that you can get up many (though perhaps not all) hills.

Matthew


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## bonj2 (13 Apr 2009)

whack a 19 on the back it'll be fine. might need to take a link out.


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## bonj2 (13 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> probably the fact that I find rides tough enough on gears and am extremely jealous of those doing so much better than I am. FFFF knows the score, I'm going to end up with a fixed sometime just because I can't be outdone by him that badly
> 
> I reckon I could ride fixed now, maybe a 26x34



try setting off on 22x34 , not easy


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## spandex (14 Apr 2009)

bonj said:


> try setting off on 22x34 , not easy





But if would be fun trying


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## bonj2 (14 Apr 2009)

spandex said:


> But if would be fun trying



spinning up a seemingly 1 in 1 on the mtb and forget to change up before stopping at the top - left foot already at bottom of pedal stroke before right foot has had chance to leave the ground...not too dissimilar to the first time riding a recumbent in a weird way. it's best to just get off and hand-crank it onto the big ring


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## dudi (14 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Steve stick with it and give it a go, if you don't get on with you could always stick an 18 on the back. I am running 48 x 16 and with Dudi today we went out and did a 100 mile ride.



+1, you'll probably be fine with the gearing you have. Also as FFFF says, you can easilly change sprocket if you think the gear is too big.

P.S. it was quite funny with 2x fixie riders in the same gearing, matched pedal strokes and all...


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## stevevw (14 Apr 2009)

Thanks for all the replies. I have been riding for the last few days without changing gear in 39 - 14 which I think is 73.2" my crank arms are 175mm 
The Bianchi gear is 48 - 16 78.8" which is 5.6" higher probably manageable but the crank arms are 165mm so the effort to turn them will be more too.
I may try and get hold of a 17 - 74.2" or 18 - 70.1" Or just wait and give it a go. 



Auntie Helen said:


> Another new bike!
> 
> You've only just built a new one!!
> 
> What's next on the shopping list, a recumbent?



Helen I have just sold 3 bikes so I have had to replace them with this sex on wheels and am building a MTB. May one day build a recumbent, when I need to have a lay down. And why are you on the fixed gear part of this site? Thinking of converting the Trice?


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## Auntie Helen (14 Apr 2009)

stevevw said:


> And why are you on the fixed gear part of this site? Thinking of converting the Trice?


I thought I'd venture to where all the potty people hang out, see what it's like. What with FFFF and dudi doing 100 miles on fixeds yesterday, I think I need to slink away in a hurry!

Somehow I don't think a Trice would work well as a fixed.


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## Greenbank (14 Apr 2009)

Fixed insanity goes like this:-

Buy fixed for commuting only (12km each way).
Take it round Richmond Park a few times (40km for 3 laps and to/from home) and enjoy how it climbs.
Try it out on a 100km Audax (including riding to/from the stations/start it was 100 miles all in).
Rarely touch the geared bike again. Take fixed on longer and longer "training rides".
Do a flat 300km Audax on it.
Do some more 200km Audaxes on it and rag it round the park.
Do a hilly 300km Audax on it.
Do a not-so-flat 400km Audax on it.
Do some more 200km Audaxes on it and rag it round the park.
Do a 600km Audax on it.
Do a 3-day 750km ride up from London to Edinburgh on it, over Yad Moss and through the Moorfoot Hills (B709).

Enter a 1400km Audax (LEL) to be ridden on the "only got it for commuting" fixed.

Gah.

Anyway, for gearing, it's all personal and there is no right answer.

For average undulating terrain something around 71" (46x17) is fine. For flatter terrain go higher (74" = 48x17 or 76" = 46x16 or even up into the 80s or 90s), for hillier terrain go lower (67" = 46x18 or 63" = 46x19). Play around with it and see how you feel.

I used 71" for Audaxing last year although I've used 76" for one flat 300km ride. This year I've dropped to 67" as I'm doing some hillier rides but I also want to get myself spinning.

Pick a gear that allows you to get up all (or at least the vast majority) of the hills you encounter, and then learn to spin it coming down the other side. Too long (big) a gear and you'll walk up too many hills. 67" gets me up everything up to 15%. A couple of 17% hills near me are just too much. Too short a gear isn't too bad but might give you too high a cadence for general cruising along the flat.

Play and enjoy.


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## stevevw (14 Apr 2009)

It would get you a much higher leg speed going down those hills too.


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## MacB (14 Apr 2009)

would it not make more sense to go SS before going fixed, especially if, like me, you use flat pedals?


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## spandex (14 Apr 2009)

+1 for Greenbank


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## stevevw (14 Apr 2009)

Greenbank
What a great post thanks so much for all the info.


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## stevevw (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> would it not make more sense to go SS before going fixed, especially if, like me, you use flat pedals?



Yes it probably would have been if I had not been seduced by the goddess that is Bianchi Pista. And bought something like a Langster with the flip flop rear wheel. I have been clipless for some time now but the Pista has toe clips so will use them for now before changing to spd's or spd-sl's when I am more comfortable riding fixed.


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## MajorMantra (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> would it not make more sense to go SS before going fixed, especially if, like me, you use flat pedals?



I think if you use flats and don't want clipless then SS is really your only option. Fixed without foot retention isn't safe for normal riding.

Matthew


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## 4F (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> would it not make more sense to go SS before going fixed, especially if, like me, you use flat pedals?



I would say that to go singlespeed to start with is the worst of both worlds as you loose out on any forward momentum that you gain with a fixed.

Imho the only real benefit of singlespeed is the maintenance free aspect of it.


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## 4F (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> 100 miles on a fixie? I'm getting seriously worried about you FFFF! A few short weeks ago you were a regular cyclist, now you've metamorphasised into some sort of Fixie nutter. Is there a link, addict, fix? I'm seeing a pattern here



 MacB, it's a slippery slope. I have only been out on the geared bike once since converting the other to fixed


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## Greenbank (14 Apr 2009)

I don't see the point with going SS before fixed. If you want to do this just put your geared bike in a roughly similar gear and don't change it. Don't got to he faff of having a SS freewheel fitted (and then having to remove it later).

The thing that will get you about riding fixed is when you try and freewheel and you're reminded, violently, that you can't. Often at inopportune moments like coming up to a junction or going over speedbumps. Riding SS won't help you get ready for that.


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## Oddjob62 (14 Apr 2009)

Greenbank said:


> The thing that will get you about riding fixed is when you try and freewheel and you're reminded, violently, that you can't. Often at inopportune moments like coming up to a junction or going over speedbumps. Riding SS won't help you get ready for that.



Agreed, I have been "fixed" for 4 days now and been loving it, except for the above.

Although I did ride SS for a week as my fixed bike has 23 tyres, previous bikes have been an old MTB with huge tyres and a hybrid with 35s so wanted to make sure I wasn't too crap on the thin tyres before I tried my hand a fixed.


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

Gearing depends on what you want. Some people i ride with would class me as over geared, i ride 48/18 which is 72". These peoople ride gears in the mid 60" and spin.
When i first started i rode 65" and i could get up to 30mph on the flat with that, and go down a hill doing 38mph(200rpm) and be fine. Id go everywhere spinning alot, and it wasnt so nice when the group had a tail wind and would be going along doing 27mph for miles. 
I did a TT on this gear aswell, and averaged 21mph i think, my average cadence for the 10miles was 120rpm
Now with 72" i can keep up easier when the group speeds up, can still power up hills. Its a nice all round gear.
48/16 is what i TT on now, and on the last one i did i beat the other person on a road bike, and a person on a TT bike. The person that beat me was 1min ahead and he was on a TT bike.
Dont go for a big gear, because you dont like to spin so much. Go for a big gear because you know you can push that gear. On sunday i was in my TT gear and did 30miles in 1:29 and thats with some hills. 
The smaller gear will give you some more suppleness and fitness. 
Oh, and dont go singlespeed before fixed. Its pointless and a complete load of rubbish that you should. The feel of fixed and single isnt the same, and its easier to be in a bigger gear on fixed then single. Just make sure you have straps or your clipped in on fixed.


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## MacB (14 Apr 2009)

Okay guys, I'm going to build one, I currently have two steel frames with horizontal drops, one will be a tourer/backup commuter and the other a fixed. So I'm looking at my gearing and would like to be able to do my commute(40 miles) on it. I'll go with toe clips to start with, also can you get a fixed/fixed, flip-flop(is that the right term?) rear wheel, different size cog each side?

At present I have two sharp hills on the commute, fairly short, where I drop to the 44 inch gear. I have a couple of longer ones where I drop to 54 inches. Most of the ride is spent in the 60/67/76 inch gears, I do go higher for a couple of downhills. What I don't want to do is spend time pushing, so I'm thinking of a 60 inch one side, to get me started, and a 66 inch on the other side for when I get fitter. It'll take me a while to put together anyway, so hopefully will be fitter by then anyway. I keep aiming to have a higher bottom gear in use, as I improve, anyway.

So what think you folks?


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> Okay guys, I'm going to build one, I currently have two steel frames with horizontal drops, one will be a tourer/backup commuter and the other a fixed. So I'm looking at my gearing and would like to be able to do my commute(40 miles) on it. I'll go with toe clips to start with, also can you get a fixed/fixed, flip-flop(is that the right term?) rear wheel, different size cog each side?
> 
> At present I have two sharp hills on the commute, fairly short, where I drop to the 44 inch gear. I have a couple of longer ones where I drop to 54 inches. Most of the ride is spent in the 60/67/76 inch gears, I do go higher for a couple of downhills. What I don't want to do is spend time pushing, so I'm thinking of a 60 inch one side, to get me started, and a 66 inch on the other side for when I get fitter. It'll take me a while to put together anyway, so hopefully will be fitter by then anyway. I keep aiming to have a higher bottom gear in use, as I improve, anyway.
> 
> So what think you folks?



Somewhere around 65" will do you. Its a nice gear to go up hill on, a mate of mine went around Derbyshire/ the Peaks in this gear and would go up any hill.
You will be fine on it, no need for the smaller gear on the other side. Get good at spinning this gear and you will be well away. I know someone that ran 63.5" and could beat people down hills on geared bikes


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## 4F (14 Apr 2009)

MacB, welcome to the dark side :?:, agree with joe 24 on the gearing


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## MacB (14 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> MacB, welcome to the dark side :?:, agree with joe 24 on the gearing



now that's not playing the game properly, you don't agree with Joe on principle

And don't go welcoming me yet, the fixed is currently a frame and forks in my garage, long way to go and I may not like it!!!


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> MacB, welcome to the dark side :?:, agree with joe 24 on the gearing



I reckon you should go in that gear for abit FFFF, get your spinning up, then go back to your normal gear and be fitter and see if you spin faster


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> now that's not playing the game properly, you don't agree with Joe on principle
> 
> And don't go welcoming me yet, the fixed is currently a frame and forks in my garage, long way to go and I may not like it!!!



What is the spacing of the rear dropouts?


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## MacB (14 Apr 2009)

Joe24 said:


> What is the spacing of the rear dropouts?



one frame is about 126mm and the other 135mm, but either can be cold set(or bent with a bit of 4x2).


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## 4F (14 Apr 2009)

Joe24 said:


> I reckon you should go in that gear for abit FFFF, get your spinning up, then go back to your normal gear and be fitter and see if you spin faster



I may well do that, one thing I have noticed is that the 1 time I took the geared bike out it went like a rocket. Riding fixed certainly builds up your leg muscle strength.


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> one frame is about 126mm and the other 135mm, but either can be cold set(or bent with a bit of 4x2).



Use the 126 for fixed, you should be able to just get a 120mm spaced hub and space it up abit. A LBS tried a System x hub in my 130mm spaced frame i had. It just wasnt big enough, if the axle was slightly longer it would of been fine. He wasnt keen on my idea which was to just space it to 126 and put the bolts on so they just bend the frame in abit. 
120mm is what most track hubs are, but your 126mm should be fine. If not, just bend it in abit.
Ofcourse, if you want to go cheap, theres always the cheap cheap way. Get a rear wheel that fits your frame that takes a screw on block. Take the gears off and put on a fixed sprocket. You could either locktite(or whatever that stuff is called) it on, or just dont bother. You wont have a lockring, so you would need to put the sprocket on tight(on another thread there was a debate about this) and put a rear brake on to be really safe(although me personaly i wouldnt bother) but it will work.


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> I may well do that, one thing I have noticed is that the 1 time I took the geared bike out it went like a rocket. Riding fixed certainly builds up your leg muscle strength.



Give it a go. Im building up another fixed i think, that will have either 65" or 63.5". Ill use that to commute and maybe when ist really wet or in the winter. It should build up my fitness more and se suppleness in my legs as i spin more.
When i go on my geared bike, i tend to go faster and push a bigger gear. Fixed built up my leg muscle, and most of all strengthened my knees. Which really is a plus. I thought my knees were strong before, but when i started riding fixed it was amazing what i could do.


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## stevevw (14 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> Okay guys, I'm going to build one, I currently have two steel frames with horizontal drops, one will be a tourer/backup commuter and the other a fixed. So I'm looking at my gearing and would like to be able to do my commute(40 miles) on it. I'll go with toe clips to start with, also can you get a fixed/fixed, flip-flop(is that the right term?) rear wheel, different size cog each side?
> 
> At present I have two sharp hills on the commute, fairly short, where I drop to the 44 inch gear. I have a couple of longer ones where I drop to 54 inches. Most of the ride is spent in the 60/67/76 inch gears, I do go higher for a couple of downhills. What I don't want to do is spend time pushing, so I'm thinking of a 60 inch one side, to get me started, and a 66 inch on the other side for when I get fitter. It'll take me a while to put together anyway, so hopefully will be fitter by then anyway. I keep aiming to have a higher bottom gear in use, as I improve, anyway.
> 
> So what think you folks?



Not that I know about this yet but what is the point on having two gears on the bike when you can only use one at a time? You may as well have the other gear at home and change it when you feel ready. But as I say .......


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

stevevw said:


> Not that I know about this yet but what is the point on having two gears on the bike when you can only use one at a time? You may as well have the other gear at home and change it when you feel ready. But as I say .......



You have two gears, for a few reasons. 
You have one for the flat, and if it gets hilly you can just turn your back wheel around and have an easier gear.
Or, like me, i have my normal gear on one side and a TT gear on the other. I just turn the wheel round when i do a TT.
Much easier then taking the lockring off, taking the sprockt off, putting the new sprocket on, tightening the sprocket up, putting the lockring on.
All i do is take the wheel out and turn it around.


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## Oddjob62 (14 Apr 2009)

Or even more gears if you really want
http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html#fixedmtb


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## 4F (14 Apr 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Im building up another fixed i think,



Umm 2 fixies, now that's a thought :?:


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Umm 2 fixies, now that's a thought :?:



Its needed. I want more fixeds really, but i dont think mum would be happy


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## Greenbank (14 Apr 2009)

Changing gears out on the road can be a faff. It's easy when your dropouts or track-ends are long enough to handle the change in chain length, otherwise you have to mess around removing or adding links. Mudguards can also impose a limit. Forward facing dropouts often provide less capacity, but they don't require realignment of the brake blocks (as you have to do with a significant wheel position change in track-ends).

The first day of my ride up to Edinburgh (to Thorne) was pretty flat so I used a 76" gear (46x16). At Thorne I swapped to the 18T sprocket for a 67" gear as there are some proper hills up North. I had to add a couple of links of chain and managed to screw this up[sup]1[/sup]. I rode up a reasonable hill (up into Crayke and on to Coxwold) with the chain like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/le02.jpg

Doing it again I'd probably go for the 18T sprocket for hills and a 17T sprocket (71.4") for the flatter bits. That way I can do it just by flipping the wheel and not worrying about chain length. More than likely I'll just stick with the 18T sprocket and avoid the faffing around. I've never swapped a wheel round during a ride.

1. By using different makes of chain and using the pin from the existing chain with shorter pins and thinner side plates. Eventually fixed it properly 80km further on with a new section of chain with the longer pins.


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## MacB (15 Apr 2009)

Hmmm, went out for a run just now, twice round my 10 mile TT loop that I selected at the weekend. Did first loop using gears, covered range from 44 to 81.5 inches, did second loop in the 60.1 inch gear. Stupidly forgot to take a split time but the overall was 81mins 46secs so an average of 14.6mph, my best ever for 20 miles is about 14.9mph. What surprised me was Fernhill Road, coming out of Cove towards Blackwater. This is the hill that I couldn't complete in a 30 inch gear 3 months ago. First time round I'm out of the saddle in the 44 inch gear. Second time round I figured this is where I'd fail in the 60 inch gear. But not a problem, still out of saddle and was hard work, but hill went faster as well. This was on my hybrid with 35mm M+ tyres, guards and rack.

So a single speed is definitely on the cards, I understand the arguements re it being pointless, but I don't want to jump straight into Fixed and I don't ride clipless. Reckon I'll try for a flip-flop hub, give me a 60 inch and a 66 inch gear option. If I want to move to fixed I'll just have a second wheel built. I've also ordered a set of the powergrip pedal straps to try out. So, I've got frame, forks, seatpost, saddle, pedals, but nothing else yet. I'm thinking:-

Edinburgh Cycles for the SS wheel, cranks, cogs, chainring and chain.

Dotbike for bullhorn bars(internal cable routing), canti's, levers, secondary levers, cables, stem, spacers.

Anything I'm forgetting?


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## tyred (15 Apr 2009)

What has surprised me about my own SS experiment is that I find my slick tyred MTB extremely tiring and slow to ride in comparison to my SS road bike (old 531 Carlton). I know the Carlton is lighter than the MTB but the Carlton isn't exactly light by modern standards and I made no real effort to make it light (steel cranks, leather saddle, steel handlebars). I thought the low gears available on the MTB would make it easier to ride on hills than the SS despite the additional weight but if I can carry decent momentum, that doesn't seem to be the case. I can just power up hills that had me changing down on the MTB. The only conclusion I can draw is that a reasonably light SS bike with a well chosen gear ratio is more useable and nowhere near as difficult to ride as some think. I use 46/20 on a 27" wheel but am toying with the idea of 46/18. I have an 18 tooth BMX freewheel sitting on my desk at the moment...

Maybe someday, I'll go the whole way and make it a fixed.


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## Oddjob62 (15 Apr 2009)

tyred said:


> The only conclusion I can draw is that a reasonably light SS bike with a well chosen gear ratio is more useable and nowhere near as difficult to ride as some think. I use 46/20 on a 27" wheel but am toying with the idea of 46/18. I have an 18 tooth BMX freewheel sitting on my desk at the moment...


Yeah i ride a 46/18, seems perfect for me at the moment (moved to ss 2 weeks ago and to fixed a week later)

I agree with you (re your "tiring and slow" point), like i said in my other fixed gear post, i don't see my other geared bike getting any use apart from when I need to shift a lot of stuff, when the rack and panniers will be quite useful.



tyred said:


> Maybe someday, I'll go the whole way and make it a fixed.


DO IT!!!!


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## Joe24 (15 Apr 2009)

Yes! Do it, go fixed! You wont regret it. You will be worried about what if you stop peddling for a while. Which might worry you, but really, you worrying means you dont really forget to not freewheel, so you just keep peddling. Once you do ride fixed, you will see how much easier it is then singlespeed, and you will love it more.
When i went to my Giant when my fixed was broken, i just sat in one gear pretty much, and didnt really like it too much, when i changed gears it never felt right. Definatly go fixed if your riding singlespeed. You will feel so much better, and when you get used to spinning, you will go down a steep hill, spinning like mad with a huge grin on your face, as you see your speed rising higher and higher. And when your on the flat, and your spinning slightly, and you put that bit more in and accelerate fast. Its great


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## stevevw (15 Apr 2009)

Picking up the Bianchi tonight 
Just about to order a 18t rear, do you think I will need a longer chain?


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## tyred (15 Apr 2009)

IIRC, you're changing from a 16 to an 18 so not too much difference if your drop outs are long enough to give enough adjustment. I think I read somewhere that each tooth difference is +/- 1/8" so if you have room to slide the axle forward another 1/4", the chain should be okay. If not, then you need an extra link.


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## Joe24 (15 Apr 2009)

stevevw said:


> Picking up the Bianchi tonight
> Just about to order a 18t rear, do you think I will need a longer chain?



It depends where the back wheel is set up for the 16 tooth. I have an 18tooth on one side, and a 16 on the other. And theres enough room for them both.
It should be alright though.


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## stevevw (15 Apr 2009)

Yes 16 to 18. Thanks for the help. I can not wait to get it now and will be up at first light to try it out.


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## stevevw (16 Apr 2009)

I am now a fixed addict too. Only had a short (slow) ride as no brakes fitted yet but loved it. Got a nice polished alloy duel pivot caliper to go on the front, still need to find a bar top lever which will have to wait untill I am back from holiday.


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## MacB (16 Apr 2009)

Even more interesting, tried same loop as yesterday and used 42x17 or 67.1 inches this time. Was nearly 90 seconds quicker for the 19.72 miles, though thought I might bust a gut second time up Fernhill Road hill 14.94mph average, my best yet.

Am still going to begin with freewheel, not fixed, and probably will fit a 3 speed hub gear. This bike is going to be my backup commuter and must be able to hack some longer, steeper, hills with two fully laden panniers. I think I'm right in thinking I can get a 3 speed with direct drive around 67 inches and then one above one below. This should give me the general benefits of SS and the necessary extras to complete commute if need be.

The 4th bike, yep another frame, can be built into the SS/Fixed via a flip flop hub.

Cheers guys, if nothing else, I've discovered how much nicer a ride can be if you ignore the gears. Very mentally relaxing, if a little tough physically at times.


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## tyred (16 Apr 2009)

2nd gear in the standard Sturmey Archer AW hub is direct drive. First gear is 1/3 lower than second and third is 1/4 higher (IIRC, could be the other way around, 1/4 lower, 1/3 higher). 

Jimboalee will probably be around in a few minutes to give you all the gear calcs you need for one of these hubs.


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