# Stuck with a bike?



## Steelchap (14 Jul 2017)

Just wondering peoples experiences with having bought a bike, deciding they don't like it or it's not right for them, and then being stuck with it. Do you just ride it anyway, adapt it, sell it, or engage it in voodoo ceremonies based around effigies of the lbs owner?

I recently bought my first and last carbon road bike, and for various reasons couldn't ride it anymore. The lbs don't want to know, and theres a possibility I'll be stuck with it.


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2017)

Why can't you ride it. Is it down to the bike or the rider?

As for being stuck with it, you could sell it on(you'll never get what you paid for it though).


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## Steelchap (15 Jul 2017)

The bike. I just think it's odd that you can't take a bike back easily. But you can pretty much anything else. And wondered what others have done


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## Lozz360 (15 Jul 2017)

Clearly you should sell it. What is the problem with it?


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> The bike. I just think it's odd that you can't take a bike back easily. But you can pretty much anything else. And wondered what others have done


There's a legally determined list of why, and when, you can return goods. And what has to happen when you do. Consumer law applies to bikes just like everything else. Though ime bike shops, especially independent lbs's, like to play fast and loose with all manner if bs to try to get round their legal obligations. Many will offer over and above the legal minimum, though.

So it all comes down to what's "wrong" with the bike.


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

What's wrong with it?
Some shops like Evans allow returns for up to a month for example IIRC
This is why having a decent testride is always a v good idea to check it's the right bike

Sounds like selling it is the only option if you really can't get on with it for whatever reason


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## Levo-Lon (15 Jul 2017)

Ive done it a few times with motorcycles..
Xjr1300 ..70 miles one week and i lost a grand..
Z750 same,lost a grand after about 300 miles and a month.
Hyabusa..nearly 1500 quid lost with that,i just couldn't make it handle "

I bought the wrong first full suspension mtb..again lost a grand but i did use it for a year.
If you dont like it you never will , take the hit and move on..if you can of course


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## S-Express (15 Jul 2017)

What is actually wrong with the bike?


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## Lozz360 (15 Jul 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> There's a legally determined list of why, and when, you can return goods.


Only applies if the goods are faulty. If the customer changes their mind, the shop has no obligation to accept return of the item. However, retailers may have T&Cs that allow you to return a bike that is not faulty. Decathlon for instance, accept returns on bikes for up to a year after purchase.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Jul 2017)

Lozz360 said:


> Only applies if the goods are faulty. .


Nope. Faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose.


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## Welsh wheels (15 Jul 2017)

I was stuck with a bike that was too big for me for a while. I did still ride it a fair bit and I did eventually start to hate it, but I finally managed to sell it the other day.


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## S-Express (15 Jul 2017)

If only we knew what was wrong with the bike.....


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## Disabledcyclist40 (15 Jul 2017)

I wonder what's wrong with it...


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## Markymark (15 Jul 2017)

You lot are all on the wrong track. We should be asking what's wrong with the bike.


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## S-Express (15 Jul 2017)

Disabledcyclist40 said:


> I wonder what's wrong with it...



We all do..


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## S-Express (15 Jul 2017)

Markymark said:


> You lot are all on the wrong track. We should be asking what's wrong with the bike.



Radical suggestion....


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Jul 2017)

Wrong size? Ride too harsh? Too twitchy? Saddle painful? Don't like colour? Et cetera. We need to know...


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

Username suggesting that carbon isn't the 'right' frame material?


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> But, reading the OP again, I'm wondering how you'd adapt a carbon bike into ... a steel bike.


Well you can't even if an expert alchemist, which might be why he expects the shop to take it back?


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> Indeed. But he was asking if a bike could be adapted. If only we knew what was wrong with the bike, it would help no end.


True...perhaps he could get one of these (or disc version depending on the cf frame), transplant all the parts across and then sell the cf frame?

https://www.evanscycles.com/genesis-equilibrium-725-2017-road-frameset-EV289608
Or maybe @biggs682 has a spare steel frame in his shed


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## ozboz (15 Jul 2017)

It can be sold obv, but it depends how much of a loss the OP is prepared to take ,


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## ufkacbln (15 Jul 2017)

Isn't it obvious, the bike is just .... wrong


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## ufkacbln (15 Jul 2017)

Selling isn't always an option..... Bike Schemes, HP etc may have clauses


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

ozboz said:


> It can be sold obv, but it depends how much of a loss the OP is prepared to take ,


Lose a lot more if it just sits in the shed for evermore


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## ozboz (15 Jul 2017)

As said , depends if he is prepared to take a loss , offload it pay the money he gets to whoever it is on some sort of financial agreement , and cough up the difference ,


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## snorri (15 Jul 2017)

After buying my Raleigh Pioneer Jaguar I felt similarly but persisted for a few months and just could not grow to like it. A friend asked me to cycle about a bit on it whilst he watched, then he adjusted the seat and after a settling in period of a few weeks, I grew to like it.
Now twenty-one years on I have spotted some rather serious looking rust down about the bottom bracket and am just hoping it is not beyond the point of no return. I don't want to part with it, so glad I stuck with it, so many happy memories.


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## winjim (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> The lbs don't want to know


My LBS would want to know.


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## Lozz360 (15 Jul 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Nope. Faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose.


Exactly. As opposed to the OP changing his or her mind.


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## Spiderweb (15 Jul 2017)

What bike is it, how often have you ridden it and what makes you think it's unsuitable?


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## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> The bike. I just think it's odd that you can't take a bike back easily. But you can pretty much anything else. And wondered what others have done


If I sold you a new bike I wouldn't take it back either unless it was faulty. Because I'd then be stuck with a second hand machine I could only get about 75% of the full price for, not only wiping out any profit but going into the red on the deal too.


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

Evans will but they clearly build the loss into their business model and as most customers won't return their bike, they must find that the odd hit is worth it to attract more buyers

https://www.evanscycles.com/help/right-bike-guarantee


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## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2017)

vickster said:


> Evans will but they clearly build the loss into their business model and as most customers won't return their bike, they must find that the odd hit is worth it to attract more buyers
> 
> https://www.evanscycles.com/help/right-bike-guarantee


Evans are also a large retailer who can afford to take the odd hit. Most LBS can't.


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> Evans are also a large retailer who can afford to take the odd hit. Most LBS can't.


Indeed


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## Gravity Aided (15 Jul 2017)

I gave up on new bicycles after my first one, as it was just not suited. I sold it on after a few years of trying to get used to it. Sometimes bicycles are just not right, something you need to find out after some time. I was talked into that model after finding out I had not money for what I wanted, so I settled for less, and it wound up being less, to my disappointment. I find I can get a lot more bicycle on the used market than I can new, and what is there to really wear out about a bicycle that isn't revealed by inspection? (except the rider, after about 100 kilometers)


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## Cycleops (15 Jul 2017)

He just said he couldn't ride it any more, not that anything was wrong with it. Maybe we'll never know unless he tells us, or perhaps he doesn't want anyone to know.


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## biggs682 (15 Jul 2017)

thanks @vickster

At the mo no frames except woody the Woodrup and a few complete bikes

@Steelchap i have tried carbon but after 2 different ones i have re gained the steel love


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## Disabledcyclist40 (15 Jul 2017)

If only someone asked what the problem wirh the bike was....


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## Markymark (15 Jul 2017)

Disabledcyclist40 said:


> If only someone asked what the problem wirh the bike was....


Thanks for someone finally asking what we've all been thinking.


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2017)

Markymark said:


> Thanks for someone finally asking what we've all been thinking.


They've said they're stuck with a bike, watching the thread, but don't answer.


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

@Steelchap ??


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## Steelchap (15 Jul 2017)

Ha, most amusing. I don't live on the forum so hope suspense wasn't too crushing.

I got a carbon synapse. I took it out for a 60mile test ride to really see what's what. And the ride compliance is awful. Every bump felt. The road buzz left my fingers in pain an having to ride on the centre of the bars. 
The worst thing is it's a bitch to get one's feet out the clips. I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds. Never had problems on my old bike with same pedals an shoes. 

Then theres the rattling from the internal cables on Berkshires finest roads. Basically i can't stand the bike. If this is what carbon bikes are like, i must be some kind of delicate flower. This is why i was querying what others have done when stuck with a bike. I'd probably loose £5-600 on it if i sold it.

I don't think my story is relevant to what i asked. Which is peoples experiences in this situation.


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## LarryDuff (15 Jul 2017)

I'll give you a tenner for it.


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## ianrauk (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> The worst thing is it's a bitch to get one's feet out the clips. I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds. Never had problems on my old bike with same pedals an shoes.



That is absolutely nothing to do with the bike.


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## vickster (15 Jul 2017)

Change the pedals ?  You do have to get to used to SPDs

My carbon bike doesn't rattle...cables are external though


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Ha, most amusing. I don't live on the forum so hope suspense wasn't too crushing.
> 
> I got a carbon synapse. I took it out for a 60mile test ride to really see what's what. And the ride compliance is awful. Every bump felt. The road buzz left my fingers in pain an having to ride on the centre of the bars.
> The worst thing is it's a bitch to get one's feet out the clips. I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds. Never had problems on my old bike with same pedals an shoes.
> ...


Until we knew what was wrong, no-one could answer your question?


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## S-Express (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> And the ride compliance is awful. Every bump felt. The road buzz left my fingers in pain an having to ride on the centre of the bars.



What pressure were the tyres at?


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## Bollo (15 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> And the ride compliance is awful.


You need to contact the British Cycling Ride Compliance Officer.


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## KnackeredBike (15 Jul 2017)

Any change is always jarring at first, just the same as when you have new brake pads and for a while you think "Sodding hell, these brakes are fierce" until you get used to them.

Eventually and irrevokably you will think new is better.


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## Disabledcyclist40 (15 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> You need to contact the British Cycling Ride Compliance Officer.


And give it a ruddy good talking to


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## Disabledcyclist40 (15 Jul 2017)

I had to use bar tape with gels, I think it was called BG Bar Phat for a while after getting a roadie and again getting carbon.


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## Gravity Aided (16 Jul 2017)

Wider tires, flat pedals, and suspension seatpost, along with some well padded cycling gloves and some bar tape. Some of the cheapest fixes in cycling.


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

Gravity Aided said:


> Wider tires, flat pedals, and suspension seatpost, along with some well padded cycling gloves and some bar tape. Some of the cheapest fixes in cycling.


That's just it though. Fixes. Carbon doesn't give a pleasant ride. It just seems like a con.


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## Milkfloat (16 Jul 2017)

To be honest, if you think that a Synapse is too harsh for you, then maybe road cycling is not for you. A Synapse is one of the most forgiving frames going. I would give it more time and practice.


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## vickster (16 Jul 2017)

Was the 60 mile test ride before or after buying it?! Should have been the former, guessing the latter!


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## Will Spin (16 Jul 2017)

I had a bike I decided that I didn't like not long after I bought it. I bought another frame and swapped the good parts over....actually come to think of it, there weren't that many good parts, maybe I only swapped the handlebars and the saddle.


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## NorthernDave (16 Jul 2017)

S-Express said:


> What pressure were the tyres at?



This could make all the difference. Worth a bit of experimentation with lower pressures for a more compliant ride before binning the bike off completely.

And the pedals are nothing to do with the bike, especially if you've used SPD's previously.


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## roadrash (16 Jul 2017)

I do think it is a trifle silly to go splashing the cash and then deciding the first ride is a test ride


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## vickster (16 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I do think it is a trifle silly to go splashing the cash and then deciding the first ride is a test ride


There's really no need as Evans make it so easy to try out, especially in London


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## BorderReiver (16 Jul 2017)

I had a similar experience with a Specialized Tarmac. The ride was too harsh for me on the Yorkshire roads around my place and I never did get on with the Sram double tap groupset. Tried fiddling with the tyre pressures (and fitting wider tyres) but that didn't help. The only thing to do was sell the bike and buy something a bit more compliant- and put it down to experience. Sometimes life is just too short.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> That's just it though. Fixes. Carbon doesn't give a pleasant ride. It just seems like a con.


So what were you riding before you bought a carbon road bike?


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## classic33 (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> That's just it though. Fixes. Carbon doesn't give a pleasant ride. It just seems like a con.


Keeping your arms bent slightly, as opposed to rigid is a fix as well.


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## jefmcg (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> The bike. I just think it's odd that you can't take a bike back easily. But you can pretty much anything else.





Steelchap said:


> I took it out for a 60mile test ride to really see what's what.



OK, I'll bite. What other things can you return after several hours of serious outdoor use?

Not clothes, shoes, cars, camping equipment, rackets/balls/goals. I am having trouble of thinking of any.


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## classic33 (16 Jul 2017)

Taken a tent back after a weekend.


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Ha, most amusing. I don't live on the forum so hope suspense wasn't too crushing.
> 
> I got a carbon synapse. I took it out for a 60mile test ride to really see what's what. And the ride compliance is awful. Every bump felt. The road buzz left my fingers in pain an having to ride on the centre of the bars.
> The worst thing is it's a bitch to get one's feet out the clips. I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds. Never had problems on my old bike with same pedals an shoes.
> ...


Adapt it. Either double layer bar tape or one of the gel pad under tape systems. I use that on all my bikes and they all have steel frames. Paired with spesh gel mitts. No more white fingers. Easily fixed.

Spuds can be adjusted, new pedals with old cleats can be a 'mare. Easily fixed.

Changing the seatpost and remove buzz from the 'arris. My Hope post damps everything, in combination with a ti-railed Brooks, and my backside is much happier.

Tyre pressures, and better, more compliant tyres.

Me? I find carbon frames, well the one's I've tried, feel too rigid but I don't mind a bit of brake and mech rub when honking on a steel frame (big unit) and as I'm not a pro-racer as plastic bike doesn't really fit my needs or float my boat.


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Jul 2017)

jefmcg said:


> OK, I'll bite. What other things can you return after several hours of serious outdoor use?
> 
> Not clothes, shoes, cars, camping equipment, rackets/balls/goals. I am having trouble of thinking of any.


All of the above if mis-sold or not fit for purpose. But few of us are prepared to push hard enough to assert our rights.


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## biggs682 (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> That's just it though. Fixes. Carbon doesn't give a pleasant ride. It just seems like a con.



I agree re carbon doesn't give as good a ride as steel but we have to try these new more modern technology.

This is another reason why I suggest buying pre used over new where possible.

@Steelchap if you fancy trying a few steel bikes you would be most welcome.


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## simon.r (16 Jul 2017)

BorderReiver said:


> I had a similar experience with a Specialized Tarmac. The ride was too harsh for me on the Yorkshire roads around my place and I never did get on with the Sram double tap groupset. Tried fiddling with the tyre pressures (and fitting wider tyres) but that didn't help. The only thing to do was sell the bike and buy something a bit more compliant- and put it down to experience. Sometimes life is just too short.



An almost identical experience to mine with a Planet X RT58. With the benefit of hindsight I think the bike was too fast for me - it rode really well at 20mph + but the vast majority of my riding time is spent at well under that speed. 

It hurt, but the only sensible option was to sell it and accept I'd made a mistake which cost me a few quid.


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

biggs682 said:


> we have to try these new more modern technology.
> 
> 
> @Steelchap if you fancy trying a few steel bikes you would be most welcome.



Why do we 'have' to try these new technologies? Magazines an shops (even the GCN youtube boys) keep plugging carbon. But mostly based on weight. I don't care about a 1kg here or there.

I did 75miles of the ridelondon route today (not the central london) on Columbus slx cromo, i passed loads of much younger chaps on noisy carbon bikes. Most of whom are likely to have never ridden a silky smooth steel bike.

I also disagree with those questioning spd pedals. The Synapse is wider on the main triangle, making it tougher to clip out. I have some old Look PP166 pedals I'll give a go for confirmation.


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> To be honest, if you think that a Synapse is too harsh for you, then maybe road cycling is not for you. A Synapse is one of the most forgiving frames going. I would give it more time and practice.



Do you own or have you ridden a carbon Synapse? What type of bike do you ride? 

I've been road riding for over 20yrs. Today i did 75miles in under 4h30m with 3 surrey climbs. I'm no expert but I'm confident riding on the road, or off road on my mtb (15yr old 26" aluminium).


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## srw (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Why do we 'have' to try these new technologies?


You don't. Almost all my bikes are steel or titanium.

But it was your choice to drop a few hundred/thousand on a carbon bike without doing a proper test ride.

You can either hang on to the thing and see if you can adapt the components so that you get to like it, or else give it up (prematurely, I think) as a bad job, and sell it for as much as you can get for it.


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## User33236 (16 Jul 2017)

simon.r said:


> An almost identical experience to mine with a Planet X RT58. With the benefit of hindsight I think the bike was too fast for me - it rode really well at 20mph + but the vast majority of my riding time is spent at well under that speed.
> 
> It hurt, but the only sensible option was to sell it and accept I'd made a mistake which cost me a few quid.


My RT-58 is a joy to ride, only time it wasn't was on a cobbled section around the town centre in Arras but then I doubt any of my bikes would have been.



Steelchap said:


> ....Magazines an shops (even the GCN youtube boys) keep plugging carbon. But mostly based on weight. I don't care about a 1kg here or there.


Not all things carbon, frames included, are lighter than their metal counterparts.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I also disagree with those questioning spd pedals. The Synapse is wider on the main triangle, making it tougher to clip out.


Eh?


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## ianrauk (16 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> Eh?




Sits here scratching head.....


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## StuAff (16 Jul 2017)

+1. Bizarre idea....


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## Bollo (16 Jul 2017)

I like carbon bikes because they're hard and uncompromising, like my other half.


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## ianrauk (16 Jul 2017)

Strange innit.. when I had my Carbon Spesh Rubaix, it was supremely comfy.


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## Bollo (16 Jul 2017)

Different strokes for different folks. If the OP likes steel and doesn't like carbon, then bully, but it's a pretty long extrapolation from "I don't like this" to "this is universally rubbish". I can't stand cheese. Vile stuff. But it seems pretty popular so I have to accept that the problem is mine.


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## ianrauk (16 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Different strokes for different folks. If the OP likes steel and doesn't like carbon, then bully, but it's a pretty long extrapolation from "I don't like this" to "this is universally rubbish". I can't stand cheese. Vile stuff. But it seems pretty popular so I have to accept that the problem is mine.




Cheesist.


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## Milkfloat (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Do you own or have you ridden a carbon Synapse? What type of bike do you ride?
> 
> I've been road riding for over 20yrs. Today i did 75miles in under 4h30m with 3 surrey climbs. I'm no expert but I'm confident riding on the road, or off road on my mtb (15yr old 26" aluminium).



Yes, I ride a Carbon Synapse, two steel road bikes a rigid steel MTB and an aluminium MTB full suspension.


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## BorderReiver (16 Jul 2017)

It is a big stretch to say that because you don't like one carbon frame all carbon frames are rubbish. I didn't like my Tarmac (looking back a Roubaix would have been better but those Zertz(?) inserts were seriously ugly) but the Scott CR1 I got to replace it is brilliant and suits me much better. Carbon, probably more than steel, can be made to feel pretty much however the makers want it to feel. And yes, I have a steel bike as well- and a titanium one.


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

BorderReiver said:


> It is a big stretch to say that because you don't like one carbon frame all carbon frames are rubbish. I didn't like my Tarmac (looking back a Roubaix would have been better but those Zertz(?) inserts were seriously ugly) but the Scott CR1 I got to replace it is brilliant and suits me much better. Carbon, probably more than steel, can be made to feel pretty much however the makers want it to feel. And yes, I have a steel bike as well- and a titanium one.


You clearly have a lot of money!


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> I like carbon bikes because they're hard and uncompromising, like my other half.


You see, that makes sense then


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## Steelchap (16 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> Eh?


Phat tubes


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## midlife (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Phat tubes



Does that stop you rotating your ankle out? Just curious


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## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Phat tubes


That makes no difference to how far apart your pedals are compared to thin tubes.


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## SpokeyDokey (16 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Ha, most amusing. I don't live on the forum so hope suspense wasn't too crushing.
> 
> I got a carbon synapse. I took it out for a 60mile test ride to really see what's what. And the ride compliance is awful. Every bump felt. The road buzz left my fingers in pain an having to ride on the centre of the bars.
> The worst thing is it's a bitch to get one's feet out the clips. I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds. Never had problems on my old bike with same pedals an shoes.
> ...



I've only ridden a few carbon bikes (2 belonging to friends and 4 on test rides) and I've not been impressed.

I might as well say it first but... they feel 'cheap'. I've tried to think this through (not in an all consuming way as life's way to short) and have come to the conclusion that it's the 'hollow' noise that they make. Riding over a chipping coated road is horrible - it sounds as though something somewhere is rattling and is echoing through the tubes. It must be the big fat frame tubes that do this as I've had/have aluminium bikes with carbon forks and they don't do this.

And the ride feels harsh - I have read plenty about how compliant/plush carbon is but that's not my (albeit limited) experience. It feels like there is a constant jarring sensation going on - not in a major way, just as a background sensation.

I've just purchased a new aluminium bike and during the test-ride saga (always is with me) I had tried a slightly lower spec' model and liked it. I went back for another 'go' (4 altogether!) and my size was then only available to test in carbon. It fitted fine but felt awful, nowhere near as nice as the aluminium. I waited until my size in aluminium came in stock to try again and was won over by it.

My 'beef' with carbon may sound like a load of rollocks to some but hey-ho - speak as you find.


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## jefmcg (16 Jul 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> All of the above if mis-sold or not fit for purpose. But few of us are prepared to push hard enough to assert our rights.


Well, yes, and I'm sorry I did not include 3 paragraphs of disclaimers here. I was referring to purchases that matched the OP. He doesn't like his new bike, but it's fine, and it's fit for purpose**, he just doesn't like it. Which is reasonable, but it's not the retailers fault.

I recently bought some running shoes for more than I hoped to pay. I asked the retailer before paying what I could do if I wasn't happy. He said "If you haven't worn them outside, we can give you a refund" so I padded about in my house for a few days to convince myself the fit was good. If I didn't like that policy, I could have walked away.

Seriously, how many people here would spend over £1000 on something they weren't 100% sure of without talking about return policy?

**Synapse is designed for riding on roads like you find in Berkshire. I bet there were hundreds out there today, all perfectly happy.


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## steveindenmark (17 Jul 2017)

Sell it cheap or give it away.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Jul 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I also disagree with those questioning spd pedals. The Synapse is wider on the main triangle, making it tougher to clip out. I have some old Look PP166 pedals I'll give a go for confirmation.


I cry bs.

Your perception is that it is more difficult, but then your perception will be influenced by a dislike of the bike. If old shoes, cleats and pedals are transferred from one bike to another and the spds aren't releasing, some has changed/gone wrong. A different Q factor can't change that materially.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Different strokes for different folks. If the OP likes steel and doesn't like carbon, then bully, but it's a pretty long extrapolation from "I don't like this" to "this is universally rubbish". I can't stand cheese. Vile stuff. But it seems pretty popular so I have to accept that the problem is mine.


Have you tried all the different kinds?


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Jul 2017)

User46386 said:


> I dont think he needs to give it away he will be able to sell it ok.
> 
> I think all he needs to do is ride it after a few weeks he will have forgotton he didnt initially like it.


But he'll take a huge hit in the wallet, as you do with any newish pre-loved bike.


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## ozboz (17 Jul 2017)

I bought a Surley CC , and as time went on became less impressed with it ,one year later I bought a carbon BH ,at first I thought my fillings were going to rattle loose it was that stiff ! , I played around with tyre pressures to make it a nicer ride ,I m not into clip style pedals , but tried a few different ones till I got some that suited , also put a more of a hybrid gel type saddle , now I cannot praise it enough.
The Surley , def more comfortable , going to
Put flat bars on , mtb shifters
Pannier racks back and front to go touring on ,
So in answer to the OP , meddle around a bit , see how it goes , they are a good bike, if you do find its not you, you'll get a good return I say ,


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## spen666 (17 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Different strokes ......




What you talkin bout willis


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## jowwy (17 Jul 2017)

Ok.....i actually ride and own a synapse carbon hi-mod.....

I think the op is referring to the bottom bracket of the synapse being a bb30a, which is 73mm rather than the standard 68mm of most bikes, especially steel. What hes not aware is that the crankset is also 5mm narrower on the non drive said to make up for the extra 5mm in bb width.

Clipping out of spds, well maybe they are just too tight and you need to release the tension a little.

Rattly cables....wouldnt know about that issue as 1. I ride disc's with full length outers all the way through. 2. I also use sram etap, so no cabbles there.

Now uncomfortable, not on your nelly and i'm comparing that to my custom built titanium........i would put that down to over inflated tyres, even at 18st i run 95 rear, 90 front on 25mm gp4000sII and never had a comfort issue


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## jowwy (17 Jul 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Sits here scratching head.....


Bottom bracket on the synapse is a bb30a another stupid standard by cannondale.......its 73mm rather than the standard 68s on most bikes. But the its only wider on the non drive side. Therefore the non drive side crank is 5mm thinner to make up for thd extra bb width.

They've called it the power pyramid. But its defo not umcomfortable even for a lardy on 25mm tyres


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## jowwy (17 Jul 2017)

Right hand picture


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## Rooster1 (17 Jul 2017)

Being rattled, vibrated, knocked, shocked and rocked on Berkshire roads is my favourite pass time.


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## ianrauk (17 Jul 2017)

jowwy said:


> Bottom bracket on the synapse is a bb30a another stupid standard by cannondale.......its 73mm rather than the standard 68s on most bikes. But the its only wider on the non drive side. Therefore the non drive side crank is 5mm thinner to make up for thd extra bb width.
> 
> They've called it the power pyramid. But its defo not umcomfortable even for a lardy on 25mm tyres




My comment is due to his SPD problem not the BB.


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## Gravity Aided (17 Jul 2017)

jowwy said:


> Right hand picture
> 
> View attachment 362687


Sorry, still laughing at the "Power Pyramid". Sounds like an ancient Egyptian pick-up line.


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## classic33 (17 Jul 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> Being rattled, vibrated, knocked, shocked and rocked on Berkshire roads is my favourite pass time.


You might even try a bike, one day!


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## Salty seadog (17 Jul 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Strange innit.. when I had my Carbon Spesh Rubaix, it was supremely comfy.



Mines comfy...


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## jowwy (17 Jul 2017)

Gravity Aided said:


> Sorry, still laughing at the "Power Pyramid". Sounds like an ancient Egyptian pick-up line.


yup, pure marketing blurb 

but the bike itself is not uncomfortable at all. i really don't know where the OP is coming from in his comments


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Jul 2017)

jowwy said:


> yup, pure marketing blurb
> 
> but the bike itself is not uncomfortable at all. i really don't know where the OP is coming from in his comments


comfort is subjective thobut, no?


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## jowwy (17 Jul 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> comfort is subjective thobut, no?


agreed it is..........and in my experience of owning one since xmas, its not uncomfortable if fitted properly, i can only assume the OP is having buyers remorse and trying to find issue with the bike


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## Sandra6 (17 Jul 2017)

In the past few months I've sold a good few synapses, across the range, and met more people that own them already, never heard a single complaint. 
We did have one guy who brought his back with the shoes still attached to the pedals - because they didn't work - turns out he just wasn't doing it right! 

In my shop we do allow customers to return bikes they're not happy with after the first ride. 
So far I've only met one guy who has returned his, it wasn't a synapse, and he exchanged it for something else. But in general you cant take thigs back after yoiu change your mind about whether they're for you or not. I've got shoes I'll never wear because it turns out they just weren't comfy, and a couple of of pairs of jeans that didn't fit after all - or after a large dinner and bottle of wine!!

Nobody forced you to try these new technologies though. Having done the research I know carbon's not for me so I won't be trying it any time soon. If you're not bothered about the weight, why did you go for the carbon at all? 

My advice would be to ask the shop where you bought it if you can exchange it for something more suitable. Either that or suck up the loss and sell it on, but try not to tell a prospective buyer what you really think.


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

Sandra6 said:


> But in general you cant take thigs back after yoiu change your mind about whether they're for you or not.



Unfortunately you're wrong. You obviously don't spend much time around women. My wife sends plenty of things back, women in the office send so much stuff back to asos and M&S etc. Thankfully the credit card company agreed with me, as technically they own the bike, and they've gone back to the shop. Putting 'return within 14 days for refund' on the receipt (or contract of sale) and not abiding by it, puts the shop into legal difficulties.

It's all very well saying this and that about it being comfortable 'for you', but everyone is different. I made the mistake of buying a 29" Trek MTB, and it was proper heavy. I stuck with it though, but quickly realised it was suicide trying to do mtb trails, so it became a commuting bike. And eventually languished in the shed as a spare until i sold it for less than half of what i paid for it.

GrumpyGregry said: comfort is subjective


jowwy said:


> agreed it is..........



Thank you

The way the shop i purchased the bike from operates, is that they order the bike, and it's effectively yours. They don't stock bikes. So it was mine before i'd even seen it, let alone ridden it. I had no opportunity to ride it. My first ride was when i left the shop to go home.

I did the recent Ride100 on my Columbus SLX bike and had a very comfortable ride as i clocked in at 5h15mins, passing a few on Synapses. However after chatting with a few people at the start, i can see that Titanium is a better direction to go in to replace my sadly ageing road bike.



jowwy said:


> my custom built titanium



Any recommendations? I'm looking at Reilly or Enigma.

Hard to believe how far off course this post has gone!


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## jefmcg (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Putting 'return within 14 days for refund' on the receipt (or contract of sale)


You might have mentioned this a bit earlier


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## vickster (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Unfortunately you're wrong. You obviously don't spend much time around women. My wife sends plenty of things back, women in the office send so much stuff back to asos and M&S etc. Thankfully the credit card company agreed with me, as technically they own the bike, and they've gone back to the shop. Putting 'return within 14 days for refund' on the receipt (or contract of sale) and not abiding by it, puts the shop into legal difficulties.
> 
> It's all very well saying this and that about it being comfortable 'for you', but everyone is different. I made the mistake of buying a 29" Trek MTB, and it was proper heavy. I stuck with it though, but quickly realised it was suicide trying to do mtb trails, so it became a commuting bike. And eventually languished in the shed as a spare until i sold it for less than half of what i paid for it.
> 
> ...


Look at my thread about titanium bikes in the bike buying forum

I spend plenty of time around women too


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## jowwy (1 Aug 2017)

"Passing a few on synapses" - is a throw away remark that means diddly squat

I honestly think you got the bike set-up wrong..........


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## S-Express (1 Aug 2017)

Thread of the year...


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## Lee_M (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Why do we 'have' to try these new technologies? Magazines an shops (even the GCN youtube boys) keep plugging carbon. But mostly based on weight. I don't care about a 1kg here or there.
> 
> I did 75miles of the ridelondon route today (not the central london) on Columbus slx cromo, i passed loads of much younger chaps on noisy carbon bikes. Most of whom are likely to have never ridden a silky smooth steel bike.



But to be fair they probably rode the whole 100, and not just 75.

BTW I have a steel bike and I find it far less comfortable and silky smooth than my carbon bike.

I think all this guff about the comfort of steel is just that - guff- made up by people who don't want carbon, no one ever said steel was supremely comfortable in the 70s when he had no choice, a well laid up carbon bike is (in my experience) at least as comfortable as steel


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## S-Express (1 Aug 2017)

Lee_M said:


> I think all this guff about the comfort of steel is just that - guff- made up by people who don't want carbon, no one ever said steel was supremely comfortable in the 70s when he had no choice, a well laid up carbon bike is (in my experience) at least as comfortable as steel



yep - this ^^

Except to say that setup/fit, tyre choice and tyre pressure make far more difference to comfort than frame material ever will.


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## GuyBoden (1 Aug 2017)

Lee_M said:


> But to be fair they probably rode the whole 100, and not just 75.
> 
> BTW I have a steel bike and I find it far less comfortable and silky smooth than my carbon bike.
> 
> I think all this guff about the comfort of steel is just that - guff- made up by people who don't want carbon, no one ever said steel was supremely comfortable in the 70s when he had no choice, a well laid up carbon bike is (in my experience) at least as comfortable as steel



The bike's design geometry and dimensions are probably more important for riding comfort than the material. Increased fork rake, fork Trail, chain stay length and an overall longer wheelbase will give a more comfortable ride, but probably a slower bike, so there is a compromise.


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## Lee_M (1 Aug 2017)

GuyBoden said:


> The bike's design geometry and dimensions are probably more important for riding comfort than the material. Increased fork rake, fork Trail, chain stay length and an overall longer wheelbase will give a more comfortable ride, but probably a slower bike, so there is a compromise.



Comfort is a very personal thing. I find my Giant Propel far more comfortable than my Trek Domane, but traditional thinking says it should be the other way round.

Both are still more comfortable than my steel SS though


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## GuyBoden (1 Aug 2017)

Lee_M said:


> Comfort is a very personal thing. I find my Giant Propel far more comfortable than my Trek Domane, but traditional thinking says it should be the other way round.
> 
> Both are still more comfortable than my steel SS though



I had an Aluminium framed bike and unreasonably blamed Aluminium for the discomfort and stiffness, when actually it was due to the bike's geometry. Any bike frame material can be designed to be comfortable.


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

Lee_M said:


> But to be fair they probably rode the whole 100, and not just 75.
> 
> BTW I have a steel bike and I find it far less comfortable and silky smooth than my carbon bike.
> 
> I think all this guff about the comfort of steel is just that - guff- made up by people who don't want carbon, no one ever said steel was supremely comfortable in the 70s when he had no choice, a well laid up carbon bike is (in my experience) at least as comfortable as steel



Yes, but each to their own. I found riding what is supposedly a super comfy bike like riding on bricks. I'd paid for a non-specific bike fitting, as this is the shops main business, so the bike should have been set up perfectly for me.

That quote was from a few weeks ago, and i did the whole 100miles last weekend on my steel bike. 



User said:


> Did you read the name of the person you replied to?



Clearly not, i've not noticed many post by women on here. I'm never sure if they're/or any males are non-binary, non-gender specific or whatever these days. I'm clearly an anti-women/men/people facist or something :/


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

S-Express said:


> Thread of the year...



I have still only had a couple of answers to the original question. I was just seeking out peoples experiences. However I appear to have been put on trial for not liking a bike.


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## hoopdriver (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I have still only had a couple of answers to the original question. I was just seeking out peoples experiences. However I appear to have been put on trial for not liking a bike.


No one is putting you on trial for not liking a particular style of bike or suggesting that it is wrong to regret a purchase, but your whole approach to the matter doesn't make much sense to most of us on here, at least not the way you have described it.


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

vickster said:


> Look at my thread about titanium bikes in the bike buying forum



I was wading through the search responses, so will get to it. Although i notice your signature doesn't appear to mention a Ti bike. Do you know anywhere good to test them? (I live in London). I know that FatBirds have some for sale in Hunstanton near my in-laws holiday home.

The Genesis Equilibrium 20 was another bike I was considering.


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## cyberknight (1 Aug 2017)

GuyBoden said:


> I had an Aluminium framed bike and unreasonably blamed Aluminium for the discomfort and stiffness, when actually it was due to the bike's geometry. Any bike frame material can be designed to be comfortable.


Indeed although i have 2 bikes from the same manufacturer with the same frame size and geometry , alloy one has always been a bone shaker whereas the carbon one certainly abosorbs more buzz .


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> No one is putting you on trial for not liking a particular style of bike or suggesting that it is wrong to regret a purchase, but your whole approach to the matter doesn't make much sense to most of us on here, at least not the way you have described it.


It's because I wasn't expecting to explain why, i just wanted to know if other people had purchased a bike and regretted it so much they wanted shot of it. I am far from being a know-it-all about bikes, but i've ridden all sorts over 35years, and I know what's comfortable. Everyone seems to love Carbon, so I gave it a go because my steel bike is approaching it's waning years. And as described, wasn't happy with it.


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## hoopdriver (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> It's because I wasn't expecting to explain why, i just wanted to know if other people had purchased a bike and regretted it so much they wanted shot of it. I am far from being a know-it-all about bikes, but i've ridden all sorts over 35years, and I know what's comfortable. Everyone seems to love Carbon, so I gave it a go because my steel bike is approaching it's waning years. And as described, wasn't happy with it.


But the reason _why _you wanted to rid yourself of it is crucial - that is if you seriously wanted advice about what to do. If it is unfit for purpose, that's one thing. If you just changed your mind, suffered buyer's remorse, that's another.


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## Randomnerd (1 Aug 2017)

Were I contemplating gender reassignment, I might shop for some frilly knickers and wear them round the house a day or two before checking in for vaginoplasty: this doesn't answer your question, but it's what you get on a forum - opinions.


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## screenman (1 Aug 2017)

So the op is not stuck with a bike at all, that is nice to know.


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## vickster (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I was wading through the search responses, so will get to it. Although i notice your signature doesn't appear to mention a Ti bike. Do you know anywhere good to test them? (I live in London). I know that FatBirds have some for sale in Hunstanton near my in-laws holiday home.
> 
> The Genesis Equilibrium 20 was another bike I was considering.


No I don't have one yet but I'm researching. Hence the thread 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/titanium-disc-brake-frameset.218149/

I went to Enigma HQ in Hailsham, Sussex. It's a pretty easy train journey with a bike from London. Make an appointment in advance (Mon-Fri). Otherwise, you could try one of the Enigma dealers in London, kind of depends what bike you actually want and what they have

Reilly offer testrides, again pre arrange, very close to Brighton station

There's a Van Nic / J Guillem dealer near Epsom, Surrey for alternate brands

I'm very fond of my Genesis, especially the colour. It was built for me from the frameset

Fatbirds are a real Ti specialist, have lots of brands, call and ask about testrides. I've not been, it's too much of a hike


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## Steelchap (1 Aug 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> But the reason _why _you wanted to rid yourself of it is crucial - that is if you seriously wanted advice about what to do. If it is unfit for purpose, that's one thing. If you just changed your mind, suffered buyer's remorse, that's another.



I was looking for others experiences, not advice. I didn't change my mind, i just didn't like the bike for various reasons. 

I went to look at a Honda Civic a few years ago. If i'd have bought it before i'd test driven it, i'd have been left with having to drive a car with my head between my knees as it's got a very low ceiling (i'm 194cms). It's obviously difficult for a few to comprehend on here, or they're professional trolls, but sometimes, just sometimes, a purchase doesn't work out. I can't remember the last thing i took back, as it's a rarity. However when it's a 4 figure purchase, i want it to be mf**kin perfect.


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## S-Express (1 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I was looking for others experiences, not advice.



It's just you, by the sound of it. Let us know how you get on.


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## vickster (2 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I was looking for others experiences, not advice. I didn't change my mind, i just didn't like the bike for various reasons.
> 
> I went to look at a Honda Civic a few years ago. If i'd have bought it before i'd test driven it, i'd have been left with having to drive a car with my head between my knees as it's got a very low ceiling (i'm 194cms). It's obviously difficult for a few to comprehend on here, or they're professional trolls, but sometimes, just sometimes, a purchase doesn't work out. I can't remember the last thing i took back, as it's a rarity. However when it's a 4 figure purchase, i want it to be mf**kin perfect.



You've made the point well, you wouldn't buy a car without trying it, so trying a bike out should be the same.
Evans make it incredibly easy for example, even if you don't end up buying there. No obligation test rides. I did that with the Genesis to check that steel and that bike was for me. I had no intention of buying a stock bike but Evans enabled me to sit on the two possible sizes and then test out the correct one for a good while on the rough roads around their Wimbledon store despite knowing I wouldn't buy. I then ordered the frameset online from another retailer

If you go the Ti route, you might find it difficult to find big enough frames to try out, so definitely check with Enigma or Fatbirds that they have them in store


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## Mugshot (2 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I fell off twice in traffic as i was frantically trying to get out of spds.


I'm suprised this hasn't been picked up on, I reckon you've damaged it and that's why the shop won't take it back. As has been pointed out the shop is likely to be under no legal obligation to take the bike back, but if the item was pristine a lot of retailers will try to come to some agreement with the customer, particularly the small independents as customer service is one of the few ways they have to compete against the big boys. However, if the bar tape is scratched and the rear mech is scraped cos you fell off, well maybe it's not surprising that they told you to get on your bike.


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## Cycleops (2 Aug 2017)

Sandra6 said:


> In the past few months I've sold a good few synapses, across the range, and met more people that own them already, never heard a single complaint.
> We did have one guy who brought his back with the shoes still attached to the pedals - because they didn't work - turns out he just wasn't doing it right!
> 
> In my shop we do allow customers to return bikes they're not happy with after the first ride.
> So far I've only met one guy who has returned his, it wasn't a synapse, and he exchanged it for something else. But in general you cant take thigs back after yoiu change your mind about whether they're for you or not. I've got shoes I'll never wear because it turns out they just weren't comfy, and a couple of of pairs of jeans that didn't fit after all - or after a large dinner and bottle of wine!!


I've worked in retail and I'll never forget a guy who brought something back as he didn't like it. 'You've got to give me my money back, it's the law' he wailed. Marks and Spencer have got a lot to answer for.


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## Gravity Aided (2 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> I made the mistake of buying a 29" Trek MTB, and it was proper heavy. I stuck with it though, but quickly realised it was suicide trying to do mtb trails, so it became a commuting bike


I'm usually happy with Treks' products, but I found this to be the case as well, I bought it used, fixed it up, and sold it on. BB and center of gravity are too high, I think, and also the bike I had was too heavy. I know 29" is supposed to roll over a lot of stuff, but I went to a DS old Cannondale V-1000(One of the first dual suspension bikes, btw) and am quite happy with it. It always amazes me how heavy some of Treks' MTBs' can be. Steel or aluminum, seems to make little difference.


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## Reynard (2 Aug 2017)

Just be thankful you folks have a good choice of bikes in your sizes...  It's a problem that some of us can only dream of having.

When you're my height, you just have to go for whatever fits / works. There ain't many roadies made in a 38cm frame.


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## Sandra6 (4 Aug 2017)

Steelchap said:


> Unfortunately you're wrong. You obviously don't spend much time around women. My wife sends plenty of things back, women in the office send so much stuff back to asos and M&S etc. Thankfully the credit card company agreed with me, as technically they own the bike, and they've gone back to the shop. Putting 'return within 14 days for refund' on the receipt (or contract of sale) and not abiding by it, puts the shop into legal difficulties.
> 
> It's all very well saying this and that about it being comfortable 'for you', but everyone is different. I made the mistake of buying a 29" Trek MTB, and it was proper heavy. I stuck with it though, but quickly realised it was suicide trying to do mtb trails, so it became a commuting bike. And eventually languished in the shed as a spare until i sold it for less than half of what i paid for it.



I'm beginning to think I am actually a man. 
Do your wife and her cronies wear the things they subsequentlyreturn? I used to do that, when I was younger, but I grew out of it.


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## classic33 (4 Aug 2017)

Sandra6 said:


> I'm beginning to think I am actually a man.
> Do your wife and her cronies wear the things they subsequently return? *I used to do that, when I was younger, but I grew out of it.*


And that's when you returned them?


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## Sandra6 (6 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> And that's when you returned them?


Of course -because they no longer fit


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