# How Steep Is "Steep"?



## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

Been told that "_even a serious cyclist would have problems on the hill_(pictured below, heights given in feet) _mentioned"_. 
How many regard the height gained too steep to cycle? 
You start at 265 at the bottom.


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## hoopdriver (31 Mar 2018)

That’s 108 feet of elevation gain by the look of it - but over what distance? There’s no scale. If it is 432 feet that would be an average gradient if 25% and unpleasantly steep. Like some of the gradients in the Lake District - The Struggle perhaps, or Wrynose, but not as steep as sections on Hardknott Pass

If it is 864 feet and by the look of things, that would be nearer the mark, it would be an average 12.5% and while steep, something that I would pedal up daily on my rides around here without getting too worked up about it at all.

If it is longer than that, and my guess is that it is, then the gradient is shallower still and no big deal.

Unless there is something there I’m just not seeing

My guess is whoever told you that doesn’t ride much


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

Google maps gives a distance of 375.9 metres, 1233 feet.




@hoopdriver, the person that said that hasn't rode a bike.


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## Shut Up Legs (31 Mar 2018)

108/1233 is only about 8.5%, sounds only "slightly steep" to me, although if the gradient isn't uniform, then there could be some nasty bits in there. I take it that it's pure coincidence that the road section is shaped like The Grim Reaper's sickle?


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Ha, you beat me to it - I was just about to post this ...






About 7.7%, averaged over the whole distance. The steepest bit looks like 12.5% for 175 ft.

So, impossibly steep for many a non-cyclist (if they were to try it on a bike) but nothing to worry about for a reasonably fit cyclist who has a sensible bottom gear on his/her bike.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

Shut Up Legs said:


> 108/1233 is only about 8.5%, sounds only "slightly steep" to me, although if the gradient isn't uniform, then there could be some nasty bits in there. I take it that it's pure coincidence that the road section is shaped like The Grim Reaper's sickle?


Pure coincidence on that last part, predating the hospital, top left.


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

At least the hospital is waiting at the top to receive all the cyclists who suffer heart attacks from the strain of their arduous ascent!


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Right, you lot can keep the night shift ticking over - I'm off to bed!


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> At least the hospital is waiting at the top to receive all the cyclists who suffer heart attacks from the strain of their arduous ascent!
> 
> View attachment 402301


There's the funeral directors(white building on the left) before the hospital.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2018)

What's a serious cyclist? Never tells jokes? Perpetual frown?


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## gavroche (31 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> What's a serious cyclist? Never tells jokes? Perpetual frown?


One who never smiles.


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## I like Skol (31 Mar 2018)

gavroche said:


> One who never smiles.


Like a jogger?

I'm surprised @ColinJ hasn't pitched in with some of his local steep challenges, with cobbles on!


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## Drago (31 Mar 2018)

The weaklings of Yorkshire get off and push at the first sight of a slight incline.


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## Dirk (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Been told that "_even a serious cyclist would have problems on the hill_(pictured below, heights given in feet) _mentioned"_.
> How many regard the height gained too steep to cycle?
> You start at 265 at the bottom.
> View attachment 402294


That's a warm up hill around here.


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## Slick (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> At least the hospital is waiting at the top to receive all the cyclists who suffer heart attacks from the strain of their arduous ascent!
> 
> View attachment 402301


I'm not the strongest on hills, but round here they would describe that as a wee brae.


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## Johnsop99 (31 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> The weaklings of Yorkshire get off and push at the first sight of a slight incline.
> 
> View attachment 402310


Only snag is this is Gold Hill in Dorset not Yorkshire.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2018)

It was in Yorkshire 40 years ago when the ad was made


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2018)

But that hill is in Dorset!


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## Brandane (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> At least the hospital is waiting at the top to receive all the cyclists who suffer heart attacks from the strain of their arduous ascent!


Sorry but all the beds at that hospital are taken - by the loyalty card holders of the "restaurant" at the foot of the hill!


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## snorri (31 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> The weaklings of Yorkshire get off and push at the first sight of a slight incline.


You've never carried a Yorkshire loaf home from the baker?


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## midlife (31 Mar 2018)

Sorry if I missed it but where is the OP's hill ?


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## Drago (31 Mar 2018)

Globalti said:


> But that hill is in Dorset!



It is today, due to plate tectonics.


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

midlife said:


> Sorry if I missed it but where is the OP's hill ?


Halifax. 

Hint: NOT in Nova Scotia!

As for me not posting photos of actual steep cobbled climbs ... it was gone 03:00 and I needed my beauty sleep.***






*** Unfortunately, it didn't work!


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## dave r (31 Mar 2018)

Most of my riding is in Warwickshire's rolling countryside, lots of lumps, but only a few that would be called steep by most people. This one I would call steep, Purley Chase Lane

https://goo.gl/maps/QEAwg4RpxKR2










The trouble is that everybody's idea of steep is different.


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2018)

There's a horribly steep road called Jinny Lane that climbs up from the Clarion House at Nelson. Happily there's a defibrillator at the top!


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> Most of my riding is in Warwickshire's rolling countryside, lots of lumps, but only a few that would be called steep by most people. This one I would call steep, Purley Chase Lane
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/QEAwg4RpxKR2
> 
> ...


Given that there's a few roads like that round here, I don't consider it to be any worse than others.

There's steeper nearby.


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## midlife (31 Mar 2018)

I wonder how steep Cardiac Hill is in Bristol ?


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## briantrumpet (31 Mar 2018)

I've never really been able to capture the steepness of hills in photos. Mind you, it always helps if you've got some buildings... Vale Street, in the aptly named Totterdown, in Bristol. This is steep.


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## dave r (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Given that there's a few roads like that round here, I don't consider it to be any worse than others.
> 
> There's steeper nearby.



Yes, but its all relevant isn't it. Round here thats a steep one, but in a seriously hilly area that may not be called steep, as I said in my original post everybodies idea of steep is different.


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## briantrumpet (31 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> Yes, but its all relevant isn't it. Round here thats a steep one, but in a seriously hilly area that may not be called steep, as I said in my original post everybodies idea of steep is different.


Indeed. 'Steep' in an Alpine context is 'over 10%', where you might well be doing climbs of an hour or more: 15% in the middle of that feels like a wall. But in Devon 20-25%ers aren't uncommon, though they are relatively short. Even my idea of 'steep' varies, depending on where I am, and how my legs and brain are on a particular day.


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2018)

Steep hills in Britain were originally packhorse trails. Later turnpikes were engineered for carts and carriages.


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## hoopdriver (31 Mar 2018)

Steep hills in Britain were_ originally_ seabed in a lot of cases...


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## southcoast (31 Mar 2018)

Evans cycles did a article and film recently on Gold Hill, it is probably still on their web site. Porlock Hill is a challenge, see link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porlock_Hill


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## Oxo (31 Mar 2018)

Steep hills in Britain are on the up.


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Oxo said:


> Steep hills in Britain are on the up.


That news to me - I thought that they were going downhill fast!


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## Donger (31 Mar 2018)

From my perspective a hill is officially steep when the front wheel starts to skip. In my case that usually starts to happen above 20%. At 25% I soon grind to a halt.


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## Venod (31 Mar 2018)

You can ride Gold Hill on your smart trainer, the new Tacx TDA app has a free film of it.


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## Blue Hills (31 Mar 2018)

Globalti said:


> There's a horribly steep road called Jinny Lane that climbs up from the Clarion House at Nelson. Happily there's a defibrillator at the top!


Not that steep as I recall (am surprised at what is classed as steep on this thread) - the view from the garden of Clarion House is wonderful. A bus used to go up that lane until recently - chopped in one of the successive Lancashire bush culls.


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## Venod (31 Mar 2018)

Most cyclists would find this a challenge.

https://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Rosedale-Chimney-Bank&qryMountainID=8699


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Globalti said:


> There's a horribly steep road called Jinny Lane that climbs up from the Clarion House at Nelson. Happily there's a defibrillator at the top!





Blue Hills said:


> Not that steep as I recall (am surprised at what is classed as steep on this thread) - the view from the garden of Clarion House is wonderful. A bus used to go up that lane until recently - chopped in one of the successive Lancashire bush culls.


Those posts led to some interesting Google results ... I know of a _Clarion House_ on a hillside above Nelson but it isn't on Jinny Lane and the hill isn't super-steep either. 





So I searched and found the one that you were both talking about. I think I have ridden down Jinny Lane, but never up it.






The ramp at the top averages 15% for 320 metres. It probably has sections nearer to 20%, so I would describe it as 'steep, but not super-steep'.

I'm sure that @classic33 won't mind a little diversion here ... 

The history of Clarion House ... _Fascinating stuff! _- I don't know how I had never read anything about it before. I will have to call in there on one of my forum rides - I know that @Littgull will be interested in joining me. It is a lovely area to cycle in.


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2018)

I've gone up Rosedale a few times on a mountain bike with a 22 granny and 32 cassette and found it a killer. Wouldn't dare try it on 34 / 28.


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## Blue Hills (31 Mar 2018)

Yes colin, the clarion house history is interesting. Jinny lane is on an around pendle route of mine, though i had to abandon it last time due to misbehaving gears on a bike build. Hope to do it this year. I was on a bus somewhere near burnley a few years ago and an old couple were off for a cup of tea there, no doubt planning to use the now axed bus. Do pause awhile in the garden if on the way up.
The whole area is steeped in cycling of course, clarion, sadly missed karrimor, carradice.
Back to steep or not so steep  hills.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Yes colin, the clarion house history is interesting. Jinny lane is on an around pendle route of mine, though i had to abandon it last time due to misbehaving gears on a bike build. Hope to do it this year. I was on a bus somewhere near burnley a few years ago and an old couple were off for a cup of tea there, no doubt planning to use the now axed bus. Do pause awhile in the garden if on the way up.*
> Back to steep on not so steep*  hills.


Like the A58 from Littleborough upto Yorkshire.


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## NorthernDave (31 Mar 2018)

Salterhebble Hill is steep, but I've seen plenty of cyclists tackling it - although more probably avoid it due to the crappy road layout and amount of traffic. Be interesting to see if the improvements make any change to that.

I'd rather cycle up Salterhebble than the nearby Trooper Lane or Shidben Wall...

https://cyclinguphill.com/trooper-lane/

I'm sure that this video has been posted before, but here we go anyway:


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> Salterhebble Hill is steep, but I've seen plenty of cyclists tackling it - although more probably avoid it due to the crappy road layout and amount of traffic. Be interesting to see if the improvements make any change to that.
> 
> I'd rather cycle up Salterhebble than the nearby Trooper Lane or Shidben Wall...
> 
> ...




Plan was for a blue Cyclists Dismount sign at the bottom.


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## jarlrmai (31 Mar 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> Steep hills in Britain were_ originally_ seabed in a lot of cases...



Originally they were part of a galactic dust cloud, before that a star then a singularity and if you think it's hard to cycle up them now you should have tried it back then.


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## NorthernDave (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Plan was for a blue Cyclists Dismount sign at the bottom.



On Salterhebble Hill? 

To be fair, if I was riding I that way regularly , I'd be more tempted to take Rookery Lane / Farrar Mill Lane and eventually pop out on Shay Syke near the bottom of Hunger Hill. Or wasn't there talk of a cycle route along the valley bottom?


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## Littgull (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Those posts led to some interesting Google results ... I know of a _Clarion House_ on a hillside above Nelson but it isn't on Jinny Lane and the hill isn't super-steep either.
> 
> View attachment 402373
> 
> ...




A very interesting read. Yes I would definitely be 'up' for climbing that one, Colin - if you'll pardon the pun 

The steepest hill I've ever seen is in Snowdonia when I was on holiday last summer. It is in Harlech and called Fford Pen Lech. Although I took my mtb on holiday it wasn't with me in Harlech as we were driven there on a day out by my son and daughter in law in their car. I took a picture and will try and upload it. The road sign states 40% but it is reckoned to be rounded up from 36.6% to avoid confusing motorists. I walked up it and by heck was it tough. I'd love to have attempted it on my bike though.


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## Milzy (31 Mar 2018)

25 % is when it gets steep.


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## Milzy (31 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> What's a serious cyclist? Never tells jokes? Perpetual frown?


Haha 

They have a direct drive smart turbo trainer and are constantly on Zwift. They never ride slow enough to smell the roses. They quote “It’s all about performance.” They like to wear Assos and Rapha. They ride a sportive like it’s a major spring classic.


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## Oldfentiger (31 Mar 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Yes colin, the clarion house history is interesting. Jinny lane is on an around pendle route of mine, though i had to abandon it last time due to misbehaving gears on a bike build. Hope to do it this year. I was on a bus somewhere near burnley a few years ago and an old couple were off for a cup of tea there, no doubt planning to use the now axed bus. Do pause awhile in the garden if on the way up.
> The whole area is steeped in cycling of course, clarion, sadly missed karrimor, carradice.
> Back to steep or not so steep  hills.



Anyone visiting Clarion House, give me a shout as it’s half a mile from my abode 

I would definitely class Jinny Lane as steep, as is an adjacent climb from Barley up to Newchurch.


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Littgull said:


> The steepest hill I've ever seen is in Snowdonia when I was on holiday last summer. It is in Harlech and called Fford Pen Lech. Although I took my mtb on holiday it wasn't with me in Harlech as we were driven there on a day out by my son and daughter in law in their car. I took a picture and will try and upload it. The road sign states 40% but it is reckoned to be rounded up from 36.6% to avoid confusing motorists. I walked up it and by heck was it tough. I'd love to have attempted it on my bike though.


I walked down that and then back up it again in 2012. It is actually one-way to vehicles (down only!) and the sign at the top suggests that it isn't a good idea to even do that!

I wouldn't dare attempt 40% now. I can still cope with 20% and maybe have a go at 25% but 40% would cause my heart some serious stress. It hasn't been quite right since my pulmonary embolism of 2012, which coincidentally was caused by a DVT picked up on the journey down for that Welsh holiday!



Oldfentiger said:


> Anyone visiting Clarion House, give me a shout as it’s half a mile from my abode
> 
> I would definitely class Jinny Lane as steep, as is an adjacent climb from Barley up to Newchurch.


Will do!

PS Has there been any improvement with your bad leg? I'd still like to do that Harrogate route you suggested, in a few months time.


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## Oldfentiger (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Will do!
> 
> PS Has there been any improvement with your bad leg? I'd still like to do that Harrogate route you suggested, in a few months time.



Still working on it Colin. Been to the doctor, have blood tests being done and an MRI scan booked. Have had a bike fit to see if that helps. 
Current sitrep is abductors cramping any time from 12 miles onwards, which is severely curtailing my cycling activities


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Oldfentiger said:


> Still working on it Colin. Been to the doctor, have blood tests being done and an MRI scan booked. Have had a bike fit to see if that helps.
> Current sitrep is abductors cramping any time from 12 miles onwards, which is severely curtailing my cycling activities


Well, fingers crossed that it is something that shows up in tests while you are not actually pedalling. Good luck, and I hope to be riding with you again later in the year!


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> *On Salterhebble Hill?*
> 
> To be fair, if I was riding I that way regularly , I'd be more tempted to take Rookery Lane / Farrar Mill Lane and eventually pop out on Shay Syke near the bottom of Hunger Hill. *Or wasn't there talk of a cycle route along the valley bottom?*


Aye


That's all there was, talk.


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

I thought that there already IS a cycle path along the valley bottom? I'm sure that I once cycled from Copley to near the railway station. Yes, indeed there is ... route 69 - how could I forget that one!


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

And where it was supposed to come out on Water Lane. Comes out on Phoebe Lane about halfway back.


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## Ajax Bay (31 Mar 2018)

Salterhebble Hill (the OP): 0.4km + 33m [Crocodile Dundee II 'That's not a hill!]


southcoast said:


> Porlock Hill is a challenge


2.4km + 283m (Porlock, N Devon - from the Ship Inn to the cattle grid).
Hardknott (E-bound): 2.2km + 289m (from the telephone box)
Hardknott (W-bound): 0.9km +131m (final steep hairpins section)
Rosedale Chimney (NY Moors): 0.7km + 103m (cattle grid to the car park (on R))
Bushcombe Lane (NE of Bishop's Cleeve, nr Cheltenham) 1.1km + 131m
Salcombe Hill (E from Sidmouth up to the observatory): 1.2km + 145m
Lynmouth Hill (N Devon): 0.4km + 78m - this climb is one of several hard ones (in a 20km+600m section) faced in the 'Valley of the Rocks' audax - 205km with 3900m of climb - next edition - 28 April - organised by @Ian H - details. I plan to have a 25" gear to help me up.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> *Salterhebble Hill (the OP): 0.4km + 33m [Crocodile Dundee II 'That's not a hill!]*
> 
> 2.4km + 283m (Porlock, N Devon - from the Ship Inn to the cattle grid).
> Hardknott (E-bound): 2.2km + 289m (from the telephone box)
> ...


Incline more than hill then?

Should it pose a challenge for even serious cyclists?


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## ColinJ (31 Mar 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> Salterhebble Hill (the OP): 0.4km + 33m [Crocodile Dundee II 'That's not a hill!]


Er, I think that was classic's point! 

It was someone else suggesting that cyclists should get off the busy 'steep' road ... I suspect that it was somebody on Calderdale council?


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## Ajax Bay (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Should it pose a challenge for even serious cyclists?


No (since you reiterate the question). Most cyclists should be able to ride up there with a bit of effort. Plenty of climbs similar to that (climb in distance) in Exmouth (and no doubt many other towns across the country) which riders manage day in, day out.
Think you'd have to be a 'serious' and well-geared cyclist to manage any of the climbs I listed, though.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Er, I think that was classic's point!
> 
> It was someone else suggesting that cyclists should get off the busy 'steep' road ... I suspect that it was somebody on Calderdale council?


Someone who doesn't cycle, on Calderdale Council.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> Been told that "_even a serious cyclist would have problems on the hill_(pictured below, heights given in feet) _mentioned"_.
> How many regard the height gained too steep to cycle?
> You start at 265 at the bottom.
> View attachment 402294



Who told you that, someone who is sedentary couch potato?


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Who told you that, someone who is sedentary couch potato?


On the post above yours.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2018)

classic33 said:


> On the post above yours.



I am constantly amazed at what sedentary people think is tough. Well yes it will be if you have let your heart, lungs, and muscles weaken over an adult lifetime of inactivity.


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## Richard A Thackeray (31 Mar 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> Salterhebble Hill is steep, but I've seen plenty of cyclists tackling it - although more probably avoid it due to the crappy road layout and amount of traffic. Be interesting to see if the improvements make any change to that.
> 
> I'd rather cycle up Salterhebble than the nearby Trooper Lane or Shidben Wall...
> 
> ...




Trooper Lane is bad enough in a car, I've run up it, during a race ('Bluebell Trail 10') & it's a bugger!
That said, the descent down the Magna Via is marvellous (aka Dark Lane) off the eastern side of Beacon Hill


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## ColinJ (1 Apr 2018)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Trooper Lane is bad enough in a car, I've run up it, during a race ('Bluebell Trail 10') & it's a bugger!
> That said, the descent down the Magna Via is marvellous (aka Dark Lane) off the eastern side of Beacon Hill


Members of the old C+ forum may remember me getting into a gearing argument in the mid-2000s with someone who had done hill repeats on Trooper Lane in a silly gear (42/23, something like that) and complained about his legs hurting!


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## Richard A Thackeray (1 Apr 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Members of the old C+ forum may remember me getting into a gearing argument in the mid-2000s with someone who had done hill repeats on Trooper Lane in a silly gear (42/23, something like that) and complained about his legs hurting!



I can agree with that!
Circa 1990-1992, a trio of us did a circular ride
Wakefield - DenbyDale - Holmfirth - HolmeMoss - Glossop - Snake Pass - _Strines -_ Penistone - Wakefield

My bottom gear was 42 x 21
Ewden Heights (Strines) hurt. A lot.................


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## ColinJ (1 Apr 2018)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I can agree with that!
> Circa 1990-1992, a trio of us did a circular ride
> Wakefield - DenbyDale - Holmfirth - HolmeMoss - Glossop - Snake Pass - _Strines -_ Penistone - Wakefield
> 
> ...


I was happy enough to get up Strines on a bike with a triple chainset!


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## Racing roadkill (1 Apr 2018)

Drago said:


> The weaklings of Yorkshire get off and push at the first sight of a slight incline.
> 
> View attachment 402310



That’s gold hill in Shaftesbury, not Yorkshire.


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## Racing roadkill (1 Apr 2018)

The road has to get to 25% before I get concerned.


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## Welsh wheels (1 Apr 2018)

Drago said:


> The weaklings of Yorkshire get off and push at the first sight of a slight incline.
> 
> View attachment 402310


Not wearing a helmet, how terrible


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## Welsh wheels (1 Apr 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> The road has to get to 25% before I get concerned.



I wonder what's the steepest gradient a good cyclist could get up? There's a hairpin bend on a road around here that goes up to 30% that I have cycled up before.


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## briantrumpet (1 Apr 2018)

Welsh wheels said:


> I wonder what's the steepest gradient a good cyclist could get up? There's a hairpin bend on a road around here that goes up to 30% that I have cycled up before.


New Zealand has a famous one... http://theclimbingcyclist.com/cycling-new-zealand-2015-the-worlds-steepest-street/


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## sackville d (1 Apr 2018)

@classic33 Some boys and girls will be doing the RVC (Ronde Van Calderdale) today.
I`m sure that at close of play some will have an entirely new perspective on the meaning of steep.


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## PaulSB (1 Apr 2018)

Oldfentiger said:


> I would definitely class Jinny Lane as steep, as is an adjacent climb from Barley up to Newchurch.



That one out of Barley is excruciating - we do our route Barely the opposite way round now!!!


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## classic33 (1 Apr 2018)

sackville d said:


> @classic33 Some boys and girls will be doing the RVC (Ronde Van Calderdale) today.
> I`m sure that at close of play some will have an entirely new perspective on the meaning of steep.


They mention steep hills, not hills. @ColinJ decide the route?


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## sackville d (1 Apr 2018)

classic33 said:


> They mention steep hills, not hills. @ColinJ decide the route?


I believe it`s a group of masochists from Cleckheaton who are behind the choice of route


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## ColinJ (1 Apr 2018)

classic33 said:


> They mention steep hills, not hills. @ColinJ decide the route?


IIRC, one of the climbs that they go up is the _VERY _steep, cobbled b*st*rd Buttress climb in Hebden Bridge. 

For those who don't know it and might be wondering '_How steep?_'... put it this way - I lived 2 minutes away from it for 30 years but I never even attempted to ride _up _it! I did attempt to ride _down _it once but got scared almost immediately, braked and went over the handlebars! Fortunately, I managed to get hold of a handrail as I fell so I didn't faceplant on the cobbles. After that, I left the bike at home and walked it!

Here's a video from an annual event on the climb ...


View: https://youtu.be/ZfkIxdBc0lM


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## classic33 (1 Apr 2018)

ColinJ said:


> IIRC, one of the climbs that they go up is the _VERY _steep, cobbled b*st*rd Buttress climb in Hebden Bridge.
> 
> For those who don't know it and might be wondering '_How steep?_'... put it this way - I lived 2 minutes away from it for 30 years but I never even attempted to ride _up _it! I did attempt to ride _down _it once but got scared almost immediately, braked and went over the handlebars! Fortunately, I managed to get hold of a handrail as I fell so I didn't faceplant on the cobbles. After that, I left the bike at home and walked it!
> 
> ...



Average of 37% on that.
When they fitted handrails you knew it were steep.


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## ColinJ (1 Apr 2018)

classic33 said:


> Average of 37% on that.
> When they fitted handrails you knew it were steep.


The bottom section is probably about 37% but it averages approximately 23% overall. That would be bad enough on a tarmac surface but on cobbles it is a nightmare!


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## Richard A Thackeray (1 Apr 2018)

sackville d said:


> @classic33 Some boys and girls will be doing the RVC (Ronde Van Calderdale) today.
> I`m sure that at close of play some will have an entirely new perspective on the meaning of steep.



I thought the_ 'RVC'_ was next Sunday??


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## sackville d (1 Apr 2018)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I thought the_ 'RVC'_ was next Sunday??


Richard, you are absolutely right. I thought with RVF being on today they might have chosen the same day.
If it was up to me I would have put it off indefinitely


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Apr 2018)

This one's steep, and less than 1km from where I live. I made this video on my first ride up it. It averages about 18% for 350m, peaking at about 30% early in the climb.


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## si_c (1 Apr 2018)

Shut Up Legs said:


> This one's steep, and less than 1km from where I live. I made this video on my first ride up it. It averages about 18% for 350m, peaking at about 30% early in the climb.



Can you record this one again? Only this time can we have the camera pointing at your face?  Seriously though, good effort, judging by how hard you were breathing


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## PMarkey (1 Apr 2018)

@classic33 in what context was the worthy councillor pointing out Salterhebble hill was a problem even for serious cyclists ? I only ask as I saw a throw away comment on a forum sometime ago that Calderdale council was considering banning cyclists on parts of the Burnley road and Cragg vale (no this isn't an April fools) though I can find no actual evidence that it's true .

Paul


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## classic33 (1 Apr 2018)

PMarkey said:


> @classic33 in what context was the worthy councillor pointing out Salterhebble hill was a problem even for serious cyclists ? I only ask as I saw a throw away comment on a forum sometime ago that Calderdale council was considering banning cyclists on parts of the Burnley road and Cragg vale (no this isn't an April fools) though I can find no actual evidence that it's true .
> 
> Paul


It's due to it being steep, therefore cyclists would be slowed down even more than usual.

It's why they were going to be placing the "Cyclists Dismount" signs at the bottom.


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## PMarkey (1 Apr 2018)

Jeeeez that would be the thin edge of the wedge for cycling around Halifax , Wonder if they are thinking of putting cyclist dismount signs at the bottom of Stump cross or Boothtown maybe even Keelham farm and Stone chair and all the other hills around Queensbury all steeper than Salterhebble never mind the hills at the other end of the Valley around Mytholmroyd ,Luddenden foot,Mixenden,Heptonstall and Hebden Bridge etc . 

Paul


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## C R (1 Apr 2018)

Shut Up Legs said:


> This one's steep, and less than 1km from where I live. I made this video on my first ride up it. It averages about 18% for 350m, peaking at about 30% early in the climb.



My legs started hurting looking at that video.


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## Ajax Bay (1 Apr 2018)

classic33 said:


> cyclists would be slowed down even more than usual.


And we can't have cyclists being slowed down on the roads can we? Who knows what congestion, hazards and delay they would cause to normal road users (power assisted type).
PS I liked the video too - thanks for posting Colin.


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## classic33 (1 Apr 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> And we can't have cyclists being slowed down on the roads can we? Who knows what congestion, hazards and delay they would cause to normal road users (power assisted type).
> PS I liked the video too - thanks for posting Colin.


That piece was never actually said. Came close though.


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## PMarkey (1 Apr 2018)

The biggest impediment to traffic on Salterhebble hill is it goes to two lanes heading up the hill before going back to a single lane after the lights at Dryclough lane so instant bottleneck and the same problem going down the hill after the lights at Chapel lane



There is no need what so ever for a cyclist to dismount at the bottom of the hill as it is two lanes so more than enough room .

Paul


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## ColinJ (1 Apr 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> PS I liked the video too - thanks for posting Colin.


I think if I had been 'Zimby' I would have instructed my mate to take his camera and motivational remarks elsewhere! 

Actually, seeing how close Zimby came to making it, I might have a go one day. It would have to be dry and the cobbles clean though - it gets incredibly treacherous up there when there are rotting leaves all over them, and slimy moss grows on them too. Every now and then the path is cleaned.

I once saw a 4x4 drive up to within 25 metres of the top! (SatNav error?) The stupid driver finally realised that he wouldn't make it and had to reverse all the way down ...

Another time a motorcyclist rode all the way up and almost hit me on the pavement as he emerged at the top.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Apr 2018)

https://www.relive.cc/view/1484344841

I did this on Sunday. There are two consecutive sections where the road gets uncomfortably steep ( Leith Hill, from the Leith place direction, followed by Whitedown Lane ). The corner sections on Leith, and hairpin on Whitedown Lane, are what I would classify as ‘steep’ for England.


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> https://www.relive.cc/view/1484344841
> 
> I did this on Sunday. There are two consecutive sections where the road gets uncomfortably steep ( Leith Hill, from the Leith place direction, followed by Whitedown Lane ). *The corner sections on Leith, and hairpin on Whitedown Lane, are what I would classify as ‘steep’ for England.*


I don't know how a road can be "_'steep' for England_" when it is only about 1/4 of the gradient of many roads in England!


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## Ajax Bay (3 Apr 2018)

The corners he refers to are steep. But the climbs come out at 10%ers (I have only done the Whitedown Lane one - it gets slippery (ie loss of rear wheel grip) too with the tree cover.)


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> The corners he refers to are steep. But the climbs come out at 10%ers (I have only done the Whitedown Lane one - it gets slippery (ie loss of rear wheel grip) too with the tree cover.)


I couldn't find the Whitedown climb but the Leith one is 135 metres of ascent in 1.87 km so that is an average of 7.2%.

PS I'm not sure that I will ever get to cycle down there but it looks like there would be some nice rides, as long as the roads are not too busy.


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

Try Googling, Colin. Just watching a video of the White Down climb now!


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

That is an annoyingly noisy bike! (Or perhaps it just where the microphone was picking up sound from?)

It looks like a nice climb. Some of the bends do look quite steep but the gradient display must be way out in places on that video though because sometimes the road looks much steeper than it says, and at other times it said way over 30%, which I doubt would be true for more than a metre or two at most.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I was giving this some thought while out on Sunday. I came to the conclusion my personal calibration is: If I use my bottom gear, it's steep. If I have to stand up periodically, it's quite steep. If I have to stand up, pull faces and weave around, its really steep. If I get off and walk, it's really jolly steep.
> 
> So after careful observation of what my fingers and legs were doing (they arrange the gear changing between them, I have no input) I conclude that anything above 7-8% is steep. Quite steep kicks in at around 12-15%, but becomes really steep if it persists for over 1km. There was nothing really or jolly steep on Sunday.
> 
> Edit, from memory, there are short bits of Leith and White Down that are really steep, but mostly they are quite steep.


Sounds about right


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## Racing roadkill (3 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Leith definitely has some steep kickers. The road surface is also really crap, unless they've fixed it since I was there. White Down is just a slog. https://cyclinguphill.com/100-climbs/whitedowns/


They haven’t fixed Leith, The ‘Whitedown Wall’ (section at the hairpin after the railway bridge) is a soul destroyer, because you can’t see the top of the steep bit from the bottom, so your brain can’t work out how long you’re going to be punishing your legs.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Apr 2018)

ColinJ said:


> That is an annoyingly noisy bike! (Or perhaps it just where the microphone was picking up sound from?)
> 
> It looks like a nice climb. Some of the bends do look quite steep but the gradient display must be way out in places on that video though because sometimes the road looks much steeper than it says, and at other times it said way over 30%, which I doubt would be true for more than a metre or two at most.



The hairpin after the railway bridge before the ‘wall’ is about 25% but it’s only a hundred yards or so, the problem is that the gradient only drops back to 17% after the hairpin, and carries on like that for about half a mile. You have to remember that the ‘total average gradient’ for the whole section includes a short steep downhill drop, but you won’t remember that about 2 seconds later. As with Leith, anyone that thinks that it’s 7 odd percent, and steady, is in for a big shock, it’s got 3 ‘steps’ on the climb, that are 17% gradients, and they aren’t straight, so it really isn’t as easy as it looks ‘on paper’.


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> As with Leith, anyone that thinks that it’s 7 odd percent, and steady, is in for a big shock, it’s got 3 ‘steps’ on the climb, that are 17% gradients, and they aren’t straight, so it really isn’t as easy as it looks ‘on paper’.


I really shouldn't make that mistake because I have been caught out that way several times in the past! 

I did nickyboy's Llandudno ride last year on my singlespeed bike and thought that I would be able to ride up the main hill because its average gradient is the same as a local one that I know I can cope with. The trouble turned out to be that it consisted of 4 ramps (which were a bit too steep for me) separated by easier sections which brought the average down. I only managed to ride all of the first ramp but that did so much damage to my legs that I had to walk parts of the next two ramps and all of the last one.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Apr 2018)

ColinJ said:


> That is an annoyingly noisy bike! (Or perhaps it just where the microphone was picking up sound from?)
> 
> It looks like a nice climb. Some of the bends do look quite steep but the gradient display must be way out in places on that video though because sometimes the road looks much steeper than it says, and at other times it said way over 30%, which I doubt would be true for more than a metre or two at most.


I think some of the gradient variations on that video are because the front wheel is lifting off of the road.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Apr 2018)

Chevrons:
Two: steeper than 20% (1 in 5) (@Dogtrousers 'really jolly steep' or 'walk')
One: 14% to 20% (1 in 7 to 1 in 5) (@Dogtrousers 'really steep')
Five (2x2 + 1x1): 2.4km + 283m (Porlock, N Devon - from the Ship Inn to the cattle grid).
Seven (3x2 + 1x1): Hardknott (E-bound): 2.2km + 289m (from the telephone box)
Seven (3x2 + 1x1 NB less than 1/2 E-bound distance): Hardknott (W-bound): 0.9km +131m (final steep hairpins section)
Five (5x1 (some 2s hidden in there)): Rosedale Chimney (NY Moors): 0.7km + 103m (cattle grid to the car park (on R))
Three (1x2 + 1x1 - have to say this is just an extended 25%er) Bushcombe Lane (NE of Bishop's Cleeve, nr Cheltenham) 1.1km + 131m
Two (1x2): Salcombe Hill (E from Sidmouth up to the observatory): 1.2km + 145m
Four (2x2): Lynmouth Hill (N Devon): 0.4km + 78m
Zero: Leith Hill (just saying, kickers or no)


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## Nibor (3 Apr 2018)

Globalti said:


> There's a horribly steep road called Jinny Lane that climbs up from the Clarion House at Nelson. Happily there's a defibrillator at the top!


That is tough to walk up


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## si_c (3 Apr 2018)

I'm somewhat jealous of all you chaps moaning about all the steep climbs near to you, it's a good hour or so's ride to the nearest one for me!


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## Ajax Bay (3 Apr 2018)

In addition to the climb, believe me it's 'really jolly' hard going down (east-bound): your arms and hands (caliper brakes) are screaming by the time it eases off (bridge over stream, where the track joins).


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2018)

I doubt that I will ever dare to try those _really _tough climbs now because my heart and lungs have never fully recovered from the damage done by blood clots in 2012/2013. I can get away with 15-20% if I warm up adequately and I would still have a go at 20-25%, but climbs of > 25% would probably trigger off heart rhythm problems again unless I use a gear even lower than the twiddly 25 inch gear that I normally use on steep climbs.


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## Aravis (3 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've just discovered there's no such thing as a three chevron hill. That would "just" be a one chevron hill followed closely by a two (or vice versa). The only OS symbols are > and >>


It's Michelin that has a triple arrow classification; it means roughly the same as a OS single arrow. Their arrows point uphill, not downhill, which gave me quite a surprise on my first trip to France.

This is the only col I know of in France which has triple arrows on both sides:







It's in an obscure corner of the northern Massif Central, about 25 miles south-east from Vichy. The numbers look quite modest, even if it's unusually steep for France, but I'm still glad to have it on my "done" list.


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## classic33 (3 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I was giving this some thought while out on Sunday. I came to the conclusion my personal calibration is: If I use my bottom gear, it's steep. If I have to stand up periodically, it's quite steep. If I have to stand up, pull faces and weave around, its really steep. If I get off and walk, it's really jolly steep.
> 
> So after careful observation of what my fingers and legs were doing (they arrange the gear changing between them, I have no input) I conclude that anything above 7-8% is steep. Quite steep kicks in at around 12-15%, but becomes really steep if it persists for over 1km. There was nothing really or jolly steep on Sunday.
> 
> Edit, from memory, there are short bits of Leith and White Down that are really steep, but mostly they are quite steep.


Best answer yet.


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## Tim Hall (3 Apr 2018)

I was on a tandem club ride once which went along Ranmore Common in a westerly direction and then turned left towards Whitedown Hill. I'd lost touch with the rest of the group and failed to spot that they'd turned off onto a bridleway. I got to the bottom of Whitedown Hill, which was fun, waited and waited and waited. A passing Hairy Motorcyclist informed me that my chums were waiting at the top, so I then rode back up Whitedown Hill, which was a different kind of fun.


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## PaulSB (4 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm never going here:
> View attachment 402834



Ho hum! Climbed this twice from the Eskdale side on consecutive days - we were staying about three miles away. The trick is to use the "flat" bits of the hairpins as a launch and ignore cars descending. Just keep riding and force them to give way, dismount and you'll never get back on..

The conditions were a bit grim. I had to walk down most of it as I couldn't brake.


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## steveindenmark (9 Apr 2018)

I class myself as a commuting cyclist and living in Denmark we dont have much in the way of mountains.

But I think I have found the secret to riding up steep hills. The secret is to read nothing about it before you arrive. Start in a low gear at the bottom and spin to the top.

I went and rode up Monte Grappa last year. I got to the top and had a walk around the momument and came down again. I did the same again a couple of days later. It was only after I got home did I read the horror stories and how difficult it is to ride. Im pleased I didnt read about it before I went up.

https://www.google.dk/search?q=mont...AhUzyqYKHb_CDxkQ9QEIRDAE#imgrc=ofrZTqP03SAHYM:


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## Daddy Pig (9 Apr 2018)

I drove down a 20% in North Devon a few weeks back... Not Porlock... I thought that was steep until I went up the other side which stated 25%!

I'll try and work out where it was...


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## Julia9054 (9 Apr 2018)

I tried Boltby Bank (number 54 in some list of 100 climbs) last week. Got about half way before having to stop. It gets extra steep just at the top. I was pushing at that point. Rather disappointed in myself.


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2018)

Descending from the Quantock Hills down into Crowcombe yesterday: 180m in 1.3km (cattle grid to T junction). Have never climbed it but as we descended at speed a vintage tractor rally chugged up, testing those 50+ year old engines, and the patience of the cars following them.


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## classic33 (9 Apr 2018)

Julia9054 said:


> I tried Boltby Bank (number 54 in some list of 100 climbs) last week. Got about half way before having to stop. It gets extra steep just at the top. I was pushing at that point. Rather disappointed in myself.


Next time...


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## philk56 (9 Apr 2018)

This is probably the steepest hill I've done - cycling down 

https://www.strava.com/segments/6681397 (100Climbs No34 Rowsley Bar)

The worst section are the switchbacks which max at over 25%, and on a narrow road with cars up and down it's not much fun. Second time I did it I had to get off and walk, which also wasn't easy!


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## gom (9 Apr 2018)

I’m late to this conversation, but here is one of my “favourite” road signs


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2018)

gom said:


> here is one of my “favourite” road signs


That's at the start of the road from Five Cross Ways (west of Dulverton) on the road heading to Withypool. Six chevrons in a kilometre: 3 down followed by 3 up.


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## gom (9 Apr 2018)

I know. I’ve cycled it. 
There my be similar signs elsewhere on Exmoor. And the North York Moors.


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## ColinJ (9 Apr 2018)

gom said:


> I’m late to this conversation, but here is one of my “favourite” road signs


A vehicular black hole ... motorists who ignore the signs disappear into the dip and are never heard from again!


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## andrew_s (9 Apr 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> Chevrons:
> Two: steeper than 20% (1 in 5) (@Dogtrousers 'really jolly steep' or 'walk')
> One: 14% to 20% (1 in 7 to 1 in 5) (@Dogtrousers 'really steep')
> Five (2x2 + 1x1): 2.4km + 283m (Porlock, N Devon - from the Ship Inn to the cattle grid).
> ...



Eleven (2x2 + 7x1): Bwlch y Groes from the bridge over the Afon Rhiwlech: 3km + 376m

If you want steep foreign places, there's also the Scanuppia, in the Dolomites, which is 7.5km + 1317m (ave 17.6%), and has a 45% sign at the bottom.


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## andrew_s (9 Apr 2018)

Here's one I found 18 months ago on the way down Dunkery Beacon





It seems there are no signs, unfortunately. 
The google car chickened out at the corner just after Stoke Pero church, so I can't check properly


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## Shut Up Legs (9 Apr 2018)

andrew_s said:


> Eleven (2x2 + 7x1): Bwlch y Groes from the bridge over the Afon Rhiwlech: 3km + 376m
> 
> If you want steep foreign places, there's also the Scanuppia, in the Dolomites, which is 7.5km + 1317m (ave 17.6%), and has a 45% sign at the bottom.


That's scary, especially in the 3D maps view:
https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/....31h,77.73t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2!5m1!1e4


Above, the town is near the bottom left, and the top of the climb is near the centre of the image. What a ride that would be!


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2018)

andrew_s said:


> Eleven (2x2 + 7x1): Bwlch y Groes from the bridge over the Afon Rhiwlech: 3km + 376m


Eleven chevrons is good. And if you move the start to the 190m contour, 100m down from the sharp bend and double chevron, it's 365m in 2.6k (14% AVERAGE).


andrew_s said:


> 90m in 684m is 13% . . . Don't know why I found it a bit of a struggle


FTFY
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=287500&y=143500&z=120
Climb from 249m to 339m. The climb 2km north on the same road is 15% (90m in 0.6k).


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## gom (10 Apr 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> FTFY
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=287500&y=143500&z=120
> Climb from 249m to 339m. The climb 2km north on the same road is 15% (90m in 0.6k).


Route from Porlock to Stoke Pero looks “interesting”. I may have done the other way some years ago, but yet to try coming back. However may be staying in or near Porlock in May, so ....


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## Aravis (10 Apr 2018)

ColinJ said:


> A vehicular black hole ... motorists who ignore the signs disappear into the dip and are never heard from again!
> 
> View attachment 403652


I went that way a few years back - on a driving/walking/photography trip, not cycling.

The reality doesn't come close to the hype.


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## gom (10 Apr 2018)

Aravis said:


> The reality doesn't come close to the hype.


Ouch!


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