# Counselling



## speccy1 (30 Jul 2016)

How does one go about speaking to one of these people? Is it done through your GP or by other means?

I know a few people who do this on a regular basis and it works wonders, must be a good way of blowing off steam


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Jul 2016)

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Counselling/Pages/Introduction.aspx


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Jul 2016)

speccy1 said:


> How does one go about speaking to one of these people? Is it done through your GP or by other means?
> 
> I know a few people who do this on a regular basis and it works wonders, must be a good way of blowing off steam


In my experience it's GP first, referral, and then see whether the people you're referred to have any fob off addresses when they can't help. I found someone very competent from the fob-off list but it was pretty much after the NHS computer said no.


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## speccy1 (30 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> In my experience it's GP first, referral, and then see whether the people you're referred to have any fob off addresses when they can't help. I found someone very competent from the fob-off list but it was pretty much after the NHS computer said no.


And did you find the whole thing useful?


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Jul 2016)

speccy1 said:


> And did you find the whole thing useful?


I did, yes. But getting there is a journey which starts way before the journey starts. Managing to actually ask for help is a big step on the way to the start line.


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## coffeejo (31 Jul 2016)

If you've got the cash, it might be useful to look at a private counsellor. They're just as qualified and monitored, and it gives you the freedom to find a counsellor that you get on with, which is crucial to the whole process. The problem with the NHS is that it is significantly underfunded so no matter how much they want to help, their ability to do so can be extremely limited.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> If you've got the cash, it might be useful to look at a private counsellor. *They're just as qualified and monitored*, and it gives you the freedom to find a counsellor that you get on with, which is crucial to the whole process. The problem with the NHS is that it is significantly underfunded so no matter how much they want to help, their ability to do so can be extremely limited.


This is soooo wrong. Private therapies is like the Wild West. The only respected professional club is the BABCP. 

And just to clarify counselling is not equal to or the same as psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is an evidence based thoroughly trialled and researched practice. Counselling is not.


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## vickster (31 Jul 2016)

When I had it I went private (through Bupa). It was at least a 4 month waiting list through my GP which wasn't going to work for me as an acute rather than more chronic or long term issue.
You can also choose who to see as above.
I found it useful to offload on someone who didn't know me. I started to feel I was becoming a burden to my friends, even though they said they were always happy to listen. Mine was for stress caused by a series of events precipitated by being knocked off my bike. I might have been ok without but my GP was concerned and it was helpful at that point 
If I was to go again, I probably wouldn't see the same counsellor as we didn't gel but that's definitely not a reason to not do

Hope it works out for you


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## coffeejo (31 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> This is soooo wrong. Private therapies is like the Wild West. The only respected professional club is the BABCP.
> 
> And just to clarify counselling is not equal to or the same as psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is an evidence based thoroughly trialled and researched practice. Counselling is not.


Sorry. I assumed that anyone looking for a health care professional would look for someone with the proper qualifications and accreditations. 

And yes, there's a big difference between counselling and psychotherapy but the OP asked about counselling.


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## coffeejo (31 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> This is soooo wrong. Private therapies is like the Wild West. The only respected professional club is the BABCP.
> 
> And just to clarify counselling is not equal to or the same as psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is an evidence based thoroughly trialled and researched practice. Counselling is not.





coffeejo said:


> Sorry. I assumed that anyone looking for a health care professional would look for someone with the proper qualifications and accreditations.
> 
> And yes, there's a big difference between counselling and psychotherapy but the OP asked about counselling.



Sorry. Bad reaction to your reaction to my post. You're correct to point out that one needs to seek out a counsellor with the proper qualifications and accreditations.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Sorry. I assumed that anyone looking for a health care professional would look for someone with the *proper qualifications and accreditations*.
> 
> And yes, there's a big difference between counselling and psychotherapy but the OP asked about counselling.


Unfortunately there are unscrupulous companies that charge inexperienced people money to give them a piece of paper at the end of a weeks course that makes the trainee able to become accredited. This means the 'counsellor' or 'therapist' do technically have 'proper qualifications and accreditations'. They do not! and I have had to unpick the damage done by these people on too many occasions. Unfortunately people who are looking for the professional help they need, are in a place (emotionally and mental health wise), that may not lend to steering through the quagmire of 'proper qualifications and accreditations'. 

There are 100x the number of 'pay a fee and join' clubs to the BABCP or BPS respected ones. The problem being the general public can't tell the difference.


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## vickster (31 Jul 2016)

My lady was BACP senior accredited. I would assume that all the counsellors funded by Bupa and other PH companies would be suitably qualified?
You can easily search for someone local on the website, see all their qualifications etc and then contact direct

http://finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/search/?fspecialityId[]=103&fgender[]=&ffeeAssured=&fhospitalNetworkId=&qk=Counselling+&ql=&qlo=&qla=&qn=&order=&rpp=10&hospitalSwiftId=&fcataract=&giottoFormFlag_consultant=1#start

I'm not sure a GP would refer someone seeking to 'blow off steam' for NHS counselling? I personally find close friends good for this, but the post accident situation was different and the GP referred me at that time  I was told a month wait but it transpired to be much longer

Another option if available is an employee assistance line through work. I have colleagues that have made use of such a helpline


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

BACP is a pay a fee and join and the levels of qualifications required is low.


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## vickster (31 Jul 2016)

What would you suggest then?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

vickster said:


> My lady was BACP senior accredited. I would assume that all the counsellors funded by Bupa and other PH companies would be suitably qualified?
> You can easily search for someone local on the website, see all their qualifications etc and then contact direct
> 
> http://finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/search/?fspecialityId[]=103&fgender[]=&ffeeAssured=&fhospitalNetworkId=&qk=Counselling+&ql=&qlo=&qla=&qn=&order=&rpp=10&hospitalSwiftId=&fcataract=&giottoFormFlag_consultant=1#start
> ...



It's your right as a citizen to request to be referred to an IAPT service even if it's to 'blow off steam'. This brilliant service was commissioned at a cost of over £750 million pounds over a five year period for mild to moderate mental health and emotional disorders.


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## vickster (31 Jul 2016)

That was the one with the 4 month wait for here  might be fine for the OP, wasn't going to work for me at that time unfortunately


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

vickster said:


> What would you suggest then?


BABCP, BPS, NHS, GMC registered therapist with additional specialist training and experience , NMC (RMN only) registered therapist with additional specialist training and experience.


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## Firestorm (31 Jul 2016)

I was referred by my GP , you may need a diagnosis first, in order to get the right treatment,
I had counselling for Stress and anxiety management, there are others for diverse issue like depression, anorexia, anger management, relationships...


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## shouldbeinbed (31 Jul 2016)

Quick hit and run, so apols if repeating others: 

GP referral for NHS or private route. Also good if you have an occupational health dept (ono) at work, they should have contacts to suitable people, can assist/assess you initially and refer you in the right direction.

Counselling was a godsend when I had my major wobble. However as with the interminable Chiro/Physio/Osteo arguments on here, there are different strands and approaches within the mental health sphere all of which have their ardent fans and equally ardent detractors. It can sometimes need visits to more than one person to find who is right for you and your unique set of circumstances.

It was my occy health that got me to the right psychologist after my initial forays into counselling via my GP had not proved particularly successful at unravelling the gaudian knotted ball of string my brain had become.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> Can you still ask for a referral to a CPN?


Yes you can self refer to some CMHTs but the criteria is so high due to cutbacks within the NHS, loss of third party partners, lack of qualified and experienced staff, and most recently the agency fee cappings.
All GP's and mental health professionals (inc non NHS) can refer direct to secondary MH services but most common referrals come from Primary Care Services (edit) and A&E MH teams.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> BACP is the leading organisation for counselling in the UK. It is recognised nationally and internationally, and is working with other organisations such as UKCP and the BPS, on statutory regulation. Holding a BACP accredited qualification used to be the NHS minimum requirement for employment before the Government decided to water down the requirements with the introduction of the IAPT programme, which primarily uses people with low level qualifications.


No, it's a pay a fee and join with minimum requirements. Only the BABCP accreditation is now asked for by the NHS. Counselling is not a thoroughly RCTed evidence based practice. That's why there are so many pcc's looking for work.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> BACP is the leading organisation for counselling in the UK. It is recognised nationally and internationally, and is working with other organisations such as UKCP and the BPS, on statutory regulation. Holding a BACP accredited qualification used to be the NHS minimum requirement for employment before the Government decided to water down the requirements with the introduction of the IAPT programme, which primarily uses people with low level qualifications.


People with low level qualifications?! You've clearly no idea wtf your talking about.


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## ufkacbln (31 Jul 2016)

Depending on the employer,and your relationship, some employers have a service available

We use a company called Aquilis and staff can refer themselves, or I can make a management referral.

Either way my experiences have been good and it has also meant that where necessary I have been able to offer additional support, workplace changes where necessary

Most referrals are seen within 48 hours, quicker in some cases

Also my employer has an appropriately qualified nurse working within Occ Health who deals with mental health, stress etc


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Oh really? I used to commission IAPT services. I was also one of the people involved in delaying rollout on several schemes as we could not be satisfied about the quality of training provided by two universities.


Quite clearly your 'area' is different to the rest of the IAPT model who don't use counsellors.......the model uses Psychotherapies not counselling. And the LI's are still higher qualified than most private 'counsellors' HI's are MSc minimum Psychotherapists using evidence based robust psychotherapy models as per the IAPT model. 
And if you are / were as you say then clearly you should know BACP accreditation is now pretty much obsolete amongst the NHS professionals and most insurance companies, HR's etc. The BABCP accreditation is in a different league.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Oh really? I used to commission IAPT services. I was also one of the people involved in delaying rollout on several schemes as we could not be satisfied about the quality of training provided by two universities.


Commissioning services doesn't necessarily mean you know your field, which based on your outdated beliefs, I don't believe you do.


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## srw (31 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Commissioning services doesn't necessarily mean you know your field, which based on your outdated beliefs, I don't believe you do.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (31 Jul 2016)

Show me the job description and person specs that says BACP is a requirement for IAPT jobs in the last 3 months.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Look on NHS jobs. Ooh - here's one: IAPT Counsellor. And here's the person spec.
> 
> Plenty more where that came from...
> 
> ...


So only one job for counsellor? And why only Band 6 if they're so valuable? When HiTs are Band 7? Out of all those trusts you quoted? Hmmm, point made I think.
A quick search in my area which includes a major metropolitan show 1 Band 6 and 2 Band 5 Counsellor jobs versus over 40 for Band 7 CBPs. 
And explain this, when my wife, my daughter and I completed our masters in CBP (different intakes) why was 90% of the intake PCCs with degrees or masters in their field - who were not able to get a job and were training in CBP?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Look on NHS jobs. Ooh - here's one: IAPT Counsellor. And here's the person spec.
> 
> Plenty more where that came from...
> 
> ...


And again, go and look at the accreditation process for both, read them properly and map across skills and qualifications required. Once you've done that, then please come back to me and try to tell me that the BACP accreditation qualifications are high without laughing.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Look on NHS jobs. Ooh - here's one: IAPT Counsellor. And here's the person spec.
> 
> Plenty more where that came from...
> 
> ...


A quick search for BACP accredited counsellors shows the low levels required:

The highest qualified one has BA (Hons) in Art and a Level 4 diploma in PCC.

Others only have Level 4 in PCC with no apparent previous MH core professional registration or experience. Seriously how can you compare those with BABCP accredited CBPs?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> That wasn't what you asked, was it? You said BACP accredited qualifications weren't accepted for NHS employment. You challenged me to find a job where that that was the essential qualification - two seconds on NHS jobs showed you were wrong (and there's lots more on there).
> 
> You claim BABCP qualifications are superior but it isn't even an accredited register.
> 
> Do you really want to carry on digging?


I initially didn't ask fark all. I made a statement and you attacked it aggressively and I retorted. As to carry on digging? Wtf you on about? My points have been made and backed up. 

Just to clarify, my point is that almost anyone from any background with a few non descript courses can join the the BACP as is easily checked by googling and checking out the 'counsellors' qualifications and experience. 
This isn't possible with the BABCP as you need to have a core mental health registration such as SW, RMN or Dr (GMC). 
If you don't, then you have to go through a very difficult portfolio process (ask any PCC who has to do this as PCC Qualifications don't count for BABCP Core Skills accreditation) . 
Then you need a minimum of PgDip and 200 hours face to face delivered CBP hours with 40 hours of Clinical Supervision and demonstrate CPD before they even consider your application for accreditation. 
The BABCP is taking CBP out of the Wild West and bringing it into the professional world where it belongs. 
And I have to say your statement that IAPT professionals are lowly qualified, insulting and offensive to those that deliver a fantastic service in difficult circumstances (NB: I've not worked for IAPT, but I do have a good working knowledge of the model and have colleagues and friends who do). 
And as a Consultant who has been involved in setting up IAPT services you should hang you head in shame at not being able to deliver services as per the IAPT model. The waiting list times are a disgrace in some areas and can be as long as 3 years for Complex Case CBP.


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## srw (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> For a supposedly professional person, you don't seem to have understood the ethical bit of not slagging off your colleagues...


Pot. Kettle. Black.

Wind your aggressive neck in.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

To clarify because you jumped in halfway, I was talking in context of CBPs.

I've had enough and arguing with belligerent stupid is stupid.


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## srw (1 Aug 2016)

speccy1 said:


> How does one go about speaking to one of these people? Is it done through your GP or by other means?
> 
> I know a few people who do this on a regular basis and it works wonders, must be a good way of blowing off steam


As you'll have gathered there's a fair bit of disagreement about what constitutes good-quality counselling!

Speaking personally, I got a lot of benefit a few years ago from a local semi-voluntary service (pay what you can afford) operated with the support of local churches, but in a completely non-religious way. My local NHS now has a self-referral online system.

If all you need is a chance to blow off steam every so often a friend to listen and who won't try to solve your problems for you might be enough. Otherwise it's a case of hitting the internet and NHS referrals, and anyone else you trust. A decent person should offer an introductory session free.


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## simon.r (1 Aug 2016)

I'm not qualified to join in the debate about which organisation is better, but I can tell you that MrsR has recently gained a first class honours degree in Humanistic Counselling Practice and joined the BACP. 

As I understand it she had to have the degree, to have done several hundred hours of supervised counselling and to pass an ethical exam before she could join as a full member. 

It was a process that took 4 years and a lot of hard work.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

simon.r said:


> I'm not qualified to join in the debate about which organisation is better, but I can tell you that MrsR has recently gained a first class honours degree in Humanistic Counselling Practice and joined the BACP.
> 
> As I understand it she had to have the degree, to have done several hundred hours of supervised counselling and to pass an ethical exam before she could join as a full member.
> 
> It was a process that took 4 years and a lot of hard work.


FYI a Nursing Degree alone is a minimum of 4,600 Hours.


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## simon.r (1 Aug 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> FYI a Nursing Degree alone is a minimum of 4,600 Hours.



She's got one of those as well

(Well, to be fair, not a degree, she was a nurse back when they valued things other than academic qualifications. She did make it as far as Staff Nurse / temporary Sister though, so I guess that counts for something?)

As I say, I'm not able to contribute to the debate about which organisation is better, but to be so dismissive of the BACP seems unfair, based on my, admittedly limited, experience.


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## simon.r (1 Aug 2016)

To add another option to the OP's question:

Some, mainly larger, employers have something called an "Employee Assistance Programme" or similar, which is generally confidential and may lead to private counselling being offered.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

simon.r said:


> She's got one of those as well
> 
> (Well, to be fair, not a degree, *she was a nurse back when they valued things other than academic qualifications*. She did make it as far as Staff Nurse / temporary Sister though, so I guess that counts for something?)
> 
> As I say, I'm not able to contribute to the debate about which organisation is better, but to be so dismissive of the BACP seems unfair, based on my, admittedly limited, experience.


What a strange insulting and offensive and unnecessary comment.


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## AnneW (1 Aug 2016)

Speccy1, I hope you find someone to talk to.


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## simon.r (1 Aug 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> What a strange insulting and offensive and unnecessary comment.



Really? I'll accept flippant and unnecessary, but surely not insulting and offensive? Perhaps I could have worded it better. 

It was intended as an observation that academic qualifications alone do not necessarily make someone a good nurse.


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## Andrew_P (1 Aug 2016)

I am sure this helping Speccy..

Given your position I would search NHS counsellors and see if they practice privately. Just my opinion based on nothing really other than I wouldn't want to wait and I would want some security that if they were employed in the NHS they must be ok.


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## AnneW (1 Aug 2016)

Speccy1, I hope you're not in serious and/or immediate need of help. The way thisthread has gone, it might have just tipped you over the edge


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Aug 2016)

simon.r said:


> Really? I'll accept flippant and unnecessary, but surely not insulting and offensive? Perhaps I could have worded it better.
> 
> It was intended as an observation that academic qualifications alone do not necessarily make someone a good nurse.


It inferred that highly qualified nurses that deliver evidence based biopsychosocial person centred care aren't as empathetic, caring or compassionate as traditional nurses from 'back in the day'.


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## simon.r (1 Aug 2016)

AnneW said:


> Speccy1, I hope you're not in serious and/or immediate need of help. The way thisthread has gone, it might have just tipped you over the edge



Yep, sorry, will stop posting now.


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## simon.r (3 Aug 2016)

MrsR says:

It is extremely important to find the right counsellor for you. I have gained a first class degree in Humanistic Counselling, have become a registered member of the BACP and have to undergo continued CPD to maintain registration. 

Although I have these qualifications, that is not what makes me a good counsellor. The acceptance, empathy and genuineness required by the counsellor in a person centered counselling relationship cannot be manufactured - it is a way of being. Although the academic knowledge is important, it is the counsellor's way of being that makes the difference in whether the counselling relationship is successful or not. However, the person centred approach isn't for everybody and a good counsellor will establish wirh the client what is right for them and refer on if necessary.

CBT is an alternative therapy for people who want to be offered strategies and techniques to cope with their issues. Person Centred Therapy is about exploring the client's own potential and the client developing their own strategies. Both are equally valid IMO, depending on the client's individual needs.


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## ufkacbln (4 Aug 2016)

Any relationship between a counsellor and client is going to be more about the personal relationship than qualification

You may have a highly qualified counsellor, but if for any reason you don't get on at a personal level you could be better off with a lesser qualified counsellor that you feel you can trust and open up to

That is something that only the individual can decide


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (4 Aug 2016)

simon.r said:


> MrsR says:
> 
> It is extremely important to find the right counsellor for you. I have gained a first class degree in Humanistic Counselling, have become a registered member of the BACP and have to undergo continued CPD to maintain registration.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but this is incorrect. CBP (the correct term). Is scientifically backed and thoroughly researched and validated and has been since the 70's. CBP was founded when Dr Beck was trying to prove Counselling worked and proved the opposite. PCC is not scientifically grounded and was part of a 'movement' in the 60/70's where it should have stayed.

Edit: and my points re the BACP as still as above.


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## fossyant (27 Aug 2016)

Back to the OP. In my experience, you'll struggle to get counselling on the NHS. There are other options, and many charities that offer it at a reduced rate, or even free. We were having a bad time after my FIL died, massive pressure from MIL and her care (she refused to manage anything in her life - and is still the same), we had my dodgy surgery, my son recently type 1 and stuff was falling apart.

My wife accessed counselling via a carers support network (main carer for her mum and our son) and also through the cancer charity. I accessed a few sessions privately via a charity, I paid. I'd previously asked for counselling via the NHS, and even met with the Clinical Director of my Trust because of dodgy surgery I had, but despite promises, noting happened. 

Go seek out a local charity and pay for the service. My experience of the NHS is they give you a few forms to fill in, and then give you a link to mindfullness videos. Just like accessing physio, you can't get it. If you need help, best go pay for it.


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## vickster (27 Aug 2016)

@fossyant speccy doesn't use the site anymore


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## Tin Pot (27 Aug 2016)

Of my small group of close friends and family six are diagnosed as depressed, five receive drugs, one (a child) receives counselling.


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