# punctures…grrrrr



## alecstilleyedye (30 Mar 2009)

i've been doing some commutes along the canal towpath recently, and when it's been wet i've found punctures afterwards 

the tyres are cheapish offroaders pumped up to the maximum 60psi. 

as a roadie who knows little of the ways of the trail, is it likely that the tyres are just knackered (though they've not had a lot of use), or is the roadie wisdom of high pressure=fewer punctures not applicable here and the cause of the trouble?

cheers in advance


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## RedBike (30 Mar 2009)

I've tried several times to ride from Bosley through Macc onto Disley, but never made it yet due to punctures. 

The last time I tried I used tubeless tyres. My tyres just about stayed up but there was half a dozen thawns in them. I gave up half way before I wrecked my tyres. 

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlZvOVG8zs&feature=related


I would fit a liner
http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&q=slime+liner
pump the tyres full of Stans sealant and pray.


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## globalfish (30 Mar 2009)

RedBike said:


> I would fit a liner



They aren't fantastic & add weight . As an MTBer, I've tried these on various bikes. Sometimes they work & sometimes they don't. I've done about 200 miles without incident in my latest trial BUT on a recent off-road jaunt, mine worked fine but my friend had 5 punctures in the rear & 2 in the front despite using Slime liners. The Slime tubes are also hit & miss. I wrote to Slime after finding myself with flat tyres in a field despite Slime Liners AND Slime tubes. They mailed me two new tubes & liners as they didn't want me to feel I'd wasted my money. At least they stood by their product. The only way forward is tubeless in some form or other. The cheapest way is 'ghetto tubeless' 




OTTMountainBike.co.uk


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## RedBike (30 Mar 2009)

I've had similar experiances with the liners. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I think anything sharp enough to get through a good kevlar tyre will eventually work it's way through the liner aswell. They do seem to help reduce the number of puncture cheap tyres suffer though.


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## spence (31 Mar 2009)

Tubeless with UST wheels and tyres (or Bonty TR's) and a 50ml of wheel milk/latex. Can't see the point of this "ghetto" idea.

Canal towpaths are littered with debris, sharp stuff from the local youths/fisherfolk or simply from the thorn hedge. In which case it's pot luck on the puncture front, you'll ride for weeks/months with nothing then you'll get half a dozen in a couple of rides.

Tyres pumped up too hard will just pop rather than fold around an object. Try dropping down to 40psi or lower, still hard enough for the tarmac bits and will give you a little more grip off.


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## ChrisCrc (1 Apr 2009)

Talking of puntures, I had 2 punctures this week all on the rear due to a split tyre wall plus a chain snap......love it.

60psi does seem a bit high pressure, try 35-45


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## globalfish (1 Apr 2009)

spence said:


> Tubeless with UST wheels and tyres (or Bonty TR's) and a 50ml of wheel milk/latex. Can't see the point of this "ghetto" idea.



The point is we don't all have unlimited finances to invest in UST rims and UST tyres. The 'Ghetto' version is low budget and most people don't automatically think about UST rims on their first 'good' bike. UST rims don't come as standard on lower price bikes, so again it's down to budget. 
If you can show us quality UST equipped bikes for a couple of hundred quid, I'd buy a couple just to get the wheelset. The rider in the link has been running them sucessfully & without any incidents so far. And he probably has £300 quid more in his wallet than you
Cheapest UST tyres on CRC(a quick search) £20 + cheapest wheelset £252 so that's £292 for starters compared to perhaps a tenner for two BMX tubes - That's the Point
Or can you really do it cheaper? If so I've my tenner waiting for my UST rims & tyres - please send me a link


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## spence (2 Apr 2009)

Fully understand the financial side. I’ve not got money to burn either.

From what I see it’s a bodge and they hardly ever work. The amount of posts on other forums from people whole have spent hours trying to get tyres on rims and then more hours getting them to inflate. Whereas with the correct kit I can remove, clean and fit two new tyres in about 20 minutes. The right tools for the job and all that.

As with everything today, take your time to save for it. It’ll be better in the long run.


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## RedBike (2 Apr 2009)

I fully agree about 'Ghetto' version being a bodge. However, it does work with some tyre/rim combinations. 

The first time I tried it I failed misserably to inflate my tyres and eventually broke my pump. The air just escaped all along the tyres bead. I couldn't pump them up quick enougth to get any pressure in there. 

The second time I attempted it with proper tubeless tyres. They did inflate first time but sadly the cut inner tube being used as a rim strip prevented the tyre from seating correctly. The tyre popped off the rim while I was inflating it splashing sealant everywhere. By the time I had finished my garage looked like it had been used in a scene from Ghostbusters (you've been slimed). Eventually I did get the tyres up to pressure and they stayed inflated. 
By the time you've messed around trimming inner tubes and getting the sealant to seal all the gaps you wouldn't be wanting to swap tyres in a hurry. It is a bodge but it IS a lot cheaper. 

If you want to experiance tubeless tyres then this is a great way to do it. Just don't be fooled into thinking all tubeless systems are that hard to inflate. 

Now i've moved on to UST rims / tyres. It can be a little difficult to get brand new tyres that still have creases / folds in them from having been stored folded up to seat correctly on the rims; but old (correctly shaped) tyres can be swapped in seconds and inflated without the need for sealant.


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## spence (2 Apr 2009)

OK making numbers say what you want, again using CRC as above.

Rims; Mavic 819 Disc @ £56.99 719 Disc @ £40.99 makes a UST wheel £16 more. If you're ok running standard rims 819 @ £34 compared to 719 @ £38.99, so that's £5 cheaper for a UST wheel.

Tyres; Conti Moutain King UST @ £30.99 or Protection (which I thought would have been the choice for Ghetto) @ £33.99. So again £3 cheaper for UST.

So UST for £8 a wheel cheaper than a standard set up, then you've got your Ghetto costs.


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## globalfish (4 Apr 2009)

Most people probably haven't even heard of UST when they buy their first bike. It's also not often you get a choice of rims in a shop on an off the peg bike. If I went into a bike shop and said 'charge me £16 less and I'll have UST rims and tyres please' when I buy a bike , I'd probably be laughed at. In fact I'm at a bike shop tomorrow so I'll ask 'em which bike would you reduce your price on if I went UST.
I really don't think in the real world that your argument has any substance. I have a 2007 Trance 3 at present - my 2nd 'decent' bike. I'm sure I'm not aware of the reduced price for UST on any of the Giant range. Or any other brand.
If I wanted to get the rims you mentioned, I'd need someone to build the wheelset and also hubs and spokes costed in as well as the labour. Without new hubs + spokes, I'd have to pay to have someone dismantle my old wheels and rebuild them. It's therefore on this basis that I based my REALISTIC costs on 'cheap' UST wheels + tyres. 
If it's cheaper then surely the manufacturers (or at least some)would supply UST rims as standard to reduce costs
If you can do it for £16 then open a shop - you'd make a mint. Many people don't even buy new bikes. All my bikes apart from a Raleigh Moonrun (steel framed + rigid) in the early 90's i think; were either from ebay or gumtree. Just basing your prices on the difference between two rims isn't the basis for a solid defence. On a dream bike with custom wheels or choice of spec, maybe your argument stands but in reality I think your way out of touch.


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## Steve Austin (4 Apr 2009)

I don't want to get in the way of a good argument, but you could convert any MTB with any rims to tubeless with a stans tubeless kit for £50. that includes rim stirps and valves. you would need tubeless tyres, bonty Mud X which I use cost £20ish per end. so for £90 you can convert any bike to tubeless.
Geurilla tubelss works and can be done with any tyre and any rims, but its not easy and it doesn't work as well as a proper kit.

I built my last bike, and bought 891UST rimmed wheels as i wanted to go tubeless. Built last summer, and not one Puncture* since then. I ride approximately 50 mile off road every week. so no stopping to fix any flats, as the sealant instantly seals any holes.

* I did have some problems with my tyres burping off the rims, but that was because i was using naff fluid. Stans is the best there is, accept no alternatives


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## spence (4 Apr 2009)

Yes in the "real" world things are not ideal. Some one challenged me to go tubeless for less than a tenner. Using their own source it was possible, IF specing a new wheel, to do it for less than a non tubeless setup. Simple.

Of course UST is still a selling point for manufacturers so they use it to charge more and retrospecing a new bike in an LSB won't get you anywhere. And if you're talking to Neil or Paul you won't.

But you'll be surprised how many mid-range bikes are coming tubeless ready, especially from the Trek stable.


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## chrisuren (4 Apr 2009)

Got a pinch flat going over a Cattle Grid today


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