# How much water per hour?



## Jaco45er (3 Sep 2013)

Out of interest, how much water do you drink while road biking?

The reason I ask is, I done 25 miles this evening (not bad considering Saturday I done my furthest yet, 40 miles), but consciously this evening I drank less (water that is, I don't drink n ride ), as I done a similar distance 2 weeks ago, drank 500 ml of water before I started, then 2 x 750 ml bottles (both with a zero tab in each), finish the lot before the end of the ride (ride time 1:45 mins) and had a terrible stitch and stomach pain near the end.

This evening I drank a small glass of water before starting, and only 750 ml on the ride with a similar time and felt fine.

I know there is a lot of empathise on hydration, but can you drink too much? I read somewhere that if you are thirsty, it's too late, so possibly I over-hydrate?


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## Rob3rt (3 Sep 2013)

It would depend drastically on the circumstances.

People are paranoid about hydration and you will get told all sorts of bollocks advice, but this is the real world where you are pootling about, drink when you feel like you want to drink!


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## derrick (3 Sep 2013)

Drink when you are thirsty.


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## ianrauk (3 Sep 2013)

derrick said:


> Drink when you are thirsty.




This...


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## SpokeyDokey (3 Sep 2013)

As above really. Just do what feels right.

No way would I put down 2L of fluid just before/during a 25 mile ride even on a very hot day.

I've only done a handful of rides that distance but my consumption was around 4 or 5 squirts from the water bottle (maybe 3-400ml total) during the rides and a glass of squash when I got home.


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## Jaco45er (3 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It would depend drastically on the circumstances.
> 
> People are paranoid about hydration and you will get told all sorts of bollocks advice, but this is the real world where you are pootling about, drink when you feel like you want to drink!



Yer I think you have a point fella. Everything I read its all about taking on "plenty" of fluid, but I am thinking this "Thirsty is too late" is tosh !!!


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## Linford (3 Sep 2013)

Taking a swig when feeling parched works for me


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## Tyke (3 Sep 2013)

I carry 2 750 ml bottles of just water and very rarely start the second bottle before I get home on that distance. Usually drink the other one over about an hour when I get back.


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## Rob3rt (3 Sep 2013)

Jaco45er said:


> Yer I think you have a point fella. Everything I read its all about taking on "plenty" of fluid, *but I am thinking this "Thirsty is too late" is tosh !!!*



For the average bike ride it is yes. Sip as and when you feel like it.

For a serious athlete in the heat of competition, it may well be. Although that is even debated in the scientific literate now I believe.


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## Jaco45er (3 Sep 2013)

That counts me out, I'm not serious about anything . I use a 2l hydration pack on my MTB, and rarely use it all (sometimes out for 4 hours). But new to the road, and find it much more intense, but think I have over-estimated how much water to drink. 

"Take a swig when parched" sounds like good advice @Linford


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## Linford (3 Sep 2013)

I much rather drink from a bottle than my camelback thing. Funny taste from everything which came out of it regardless of how much I rinsed it out


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## Jaco45er (3 Sep 2013)

Little tip Linford. Don't bother rinsing and rinsing the bladder, slap it straight in the freezer till next ride. It stops odour and bacteria build up.


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## Kies (4 Sep 2013)

1 big bidon should be more than enough on a 25-30 mile ride, it may run out on a hot day. I would use a salt tab if doing 50+ miles.
Try and sip at every traffic light stop, not gulp it down, or when mouth feels dry.


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## MarkF (4 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> People are paranoid about hydration and you will get told all sorts of bollocks advice, but this is the real world where you are pootling about, drink when you feel like you want to drink!



Yes, I've just read an article in CA suggesting you need all sorts of weird concoctions to replace body fluid & minerals before riding to the shops, just to be sure. I ride out on a weekend 3/4 hour ride and I have just 1 x 660ml bottle with me, I don't think I've ever drunk it all.


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## Linford (4 Sep 2013)

Kies said:


> 1 big bidon should be more than enough on a 25-30 mile ride, it may run out on a hot day. I would use a salt tab if doing 50+ miles.
> Try and sip at every traffic light stop, not gulp it down, or when mouth feels dry.



Not that easy for me to look for natural stops like traffic lights as my routes are planned to avoid them.My pattern is ride up abig hill, get puffed out half way up, stop for a breather, and take a sip then


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## Kies (4 Sep 2013)

Not that different to me then ;-)
My point being drink at natural or man made junctions, which then gives you replenishment of fluids lost throught sweating. It may not be perfect, but it should be close enough to stop dehydration.
I usually start drinking after the first 10 miles, and regularly after that.


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2013)

Why wait for a junction, just sip when you are thirsty, moving or stationary


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## Hill Wimp (4 Sep 2013)

I may take the odd sip on my rides which usually go between 20-40 miles but i have never finished a bottle even on a hot day. I do make sure though when i get back home to drink.

Just listen to your body,if you are thirsty then drink, getting hungry or getting the shakes then eat.

Don't get carried away with it, just ride.


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2013)

Hill Wimp said:


> I may take the odd sip on my rides which usually go between 20-40 miles but i have never finished a bottle even on a hot day. I do make sure though when i get back home to drink.
> 
> Just listen to your body,if you are thirsty then drink, getting hungry *or getting the shakes then eat.*
> 
> Don't get carried away with it, just ride.



This is where the spirit of the "drink before you are thirsty" advice is actually spot on, you should never wait until you have the shakes before starting to eat, once you are getting the shakes then you have left it too late!


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## Linford (4 Sep 2013)

I'm diabetic so getting to the shakes point is a fairly dangerous place to be. Got to balance the sugars carefully, too much, and it robs me of energy.... and risk a heart attack etc, too little and risk a hypo.


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## helston90 (4 Sep 2013)

There's no hard n fast rules- it depends on terrain, effort, weather, distance, fluid consumed through the day. 
My 36 mile ride last night I got through 2 x 500ml with half a tab in each to give it some taste, seemed about right but it was over 2000ft of climbing and warm when I set off.


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## Jaco45er (4 Sep 2013)

Interesting stuff guys.

Although water is so yesterday, couldn't be assed with a ride this evening (roadie has rear puncture too) so swapped water for beer tonight. Salut


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## Gravity Aided (5 Sep 2013)

Well done- carb loading!
Heat makes a big difference with water intake. Last week, when it was 97f (36c)and 54% relative humidity, I went through 2 Camelbak 750ml on a 1 hour and 47 min ride. At that rate, I also added a pinch of salt as well, to each bottle.


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## Shut Up Legs (5 Sep 2013)

To the OP: one thing to remember on hotter days is to drink more when you start to sweat less. Sweating less (or the sweating completely stopping) is the sign of imminent dehydration.


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## Misusawa (5 Sep 2013)

I did a seventy mile ride last week with a couple of cups of coffee beforehand, a small carton of orange after 20ish miles,and a 750 ml bottle of water kept me going through the rest. But there were occasions when I've been out in hotter weather and have got through 2.5L of water in a thirty mile meander about.


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## ufkacbln (5 Sep 2013)

There are two rules of thumb......

The first is to spend a couple of days timing yourself going to the loo!
Then when you are out, this should be about the same, if less then you are not drinking enough!

The second is to watch the stream, and look at the colour. If it is light straw colour then you are hydrated, but darker colour says you are dehydrating. If an almost amber colour then you are beginning to seriously dehydrate


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## Herr-B (5 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> The second is to watch the stream, and look at the colour. If it is light straw colour then you are hydrated, but darker colour says you are dehydrating. If an almost amber colour then you are beginning to seriously dehydrate


Either way Fosters would like their drink back! 

I'm another who takes two bottles on a ride but only start the second if it's very hot (today should do it).


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## Brandane (5 Sep 2013)

I agree with the "how long is a piece of string" replies.... 
I did a century (miles) the other day, with a lot of climbing, and got through my 750ml bottle 3 times, plus a can of coke at one stop. I did require a few pints of Greene King at the end .
I did the Loire valley last year in temperatures of >35c, and was probably drinking that amount every 20 miles.
On the other hand, I can go out on a damp winters day and do 50 miles and hardly make a dent in a 500ml water bottle.


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## ufkacbln (5 Sep 2013)

Bad news is that unless you are properly hydrated in the first place, coke, beer, coffee, tea all contain diuretics which increase the renal output exacerbating the situation


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## fimm (5 Sep 2013)

"Is it possible to drink too much water?" - yes it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia - it can be fatal.
The "right amount" is personal, though - if my boyfriend & I got out for a long cycle together, with two full 500ml bottles each, there's some chance that I'll drink both of mine and pinch his second one - with no harm to either of us. He acknowledges that he seems to require less fluid than "normal" though - but it seems that this is "just the way he is".


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## Davidc (5 Sep 2013)

You'll feel thirsty long before you start to be dehydrated. Small sips and frequently works best.

How much depends on the weather, the topography of the ride, and more.

There's more rubbish and old-wives-tales written and passed on on this topic than there is solid fact and good advice, so beware.


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## TonyEnjoyD (5 Sep 2013)

I normally drink well in excess of 2-3 litres of water a day, usually 6-8 300ml glasses plus tea or coffee.
Out on a ride, 20-35 I take one 500ml bottle, sometimes I finish it.
More than 30-35' I take 750 or two 500ml.
I take a mouthful periodically as I ride r at a natural stop, usually pee once every 25 miles and gently rehydrate at the end ( unless we ht McD's for a latte toward the end that is -forward planning )


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## Paulus (5 Sep 2013)

derrick said:


> Drink when you are thirsty.


You should really drink BEFORE you are thirsty to keep hydrated. Take a small drink before leaving home and sip away on the move. I drink a 500 ml bottle every 20 miles or so depending on the weather. The warmer the weather, the more water.


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## jefmcg (5 Sep 2013)

Jaco45er said:


> Out of interest, how much water do you drink while road biking?
> 
> The reason I ask is, I done 25 miles this evening (not bad considering Saturday I done my furthest yet, 40 miles), but consciously this evening I drank less (water that is, I don't drink n ride ), as I done a similar distance 2 weeks ago, drank 500 ml of water before I started, then 2 x 750 ml bottles (both with a zero tab in each), finish the lot before the end of the ride (ride time 1:45 mins) and had a terrible stitch and stomach pain near the end.



Leave the zero out: I used a few tabs that came free with my water bottles (or is it the other way around?) and had stomach distress every time. As I could not think of a good reason not to take a little sugar, I replaced it with Rocks Squash - one of the only brands that has no artificial sweeteners - or SIS powder. Tastes nicer and no distress. Of course, you don't need anything, but I find sweetened water more palatable, so use it. Even then I did a slow Dunwich Dynamo (~12 hours) without needing a comfort break!


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## jefmcg (5 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Bad news is that unless you are properly hydrated in the first place, coke, beer, coffee, tea all contain diuretics which increase the renal output exacerbating the situation


This is not true, unless you aren't a caffeine user. My nanna would have died of thirst, as she only drank tea ... and sherry!

http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp


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## nickyboy (5 Sep 2013)

As soon as your body suffers 2% dehydration (ie you have 98% of the ideal quantity of water in your body) you start to suffer drop off in ability to exercise. Now you don't even feel thirsty at 2% dehydration so the idea to wait until you are thirsty, then drink some, is tosh if you want to cycle to the best of your abilities. Of course, if you aren't bothered about a drop off in your cycling then you can allow yourself to become a bit dehydrated by waiting until you feel thirsty
The best advice seems to be to monitor your urine production. If you are still producing the usual amount of light coloured stuff during and after the ride you're fine. Anything else you're not


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## PK99 (5 Sep 2013)

derrick said:


> Drink when you are thirsty.



I my experience this is 180degrees wrong.

Rule of thumb:
Drink before you are thirsty
Eat before you are hungry.

On a 20 mile ride i might well do neither - and sometimes suffer from post ride cramps

20-30 miler zero calorie tab per bottle, carry two, probably only drink one

Above 30 I have recently taken to using a Carbohydrate drink from the start and feel the benefit both during the ride and in terms of recovery - my times over a standard 40 mile route are better than with zero cals.

Try weighing yourself starkers before and after a ride to give a measure of water loss - it is sometimes remarkably large!


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## ufkacbln (5 Sep 2013)

jefmcg said:


> This is not true, unless you aren't a caffeine user. My nanna would have died of thirst, as she only drank tea ... and sherry!
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp



That article does not mention diuretic effects, Di I am afraid I don't see the relevance


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## derrick (5 Sep 2013)

If i am not thirsty i don't drink. i drink when i feel like drinking, have done plenty of long rides 50+ miles without a problem.


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## Davidc (5 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> That article does not mention diuretic effects, Di I am afraid I don't see the relevance


Most of the second half of the article is about them!

nickyboy and PK99 would do well to read Barbara Rolls before suggesting drinking before feeling thirst (She's probably world number one on the subject).


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## ufkacbln (5 Sep 2013)

Davidc said:


> Most of the second half of the article is about them!
> 
> nickyboy and PK99 would do well to read Barbara Rolls before suggesting drinking before feeling thirst (She's probably world number one on the subject).



Sorry- it does still not mention the diuretic effects of these drinks when dehydrated.

The statement stands, beer, coke, coffee and tea are diuretics, and if you are dehydrated will exacerbate the situation


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## Davidc (5 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Sorry- it does still not mention the diuretic effects of these drinks when dehydrated.
> 
> The statement stands, beer, coke, coffee and tea are diuretics, and if you are dehydrated will exacerbate the situation



The article covers the diuretic effects, which will vary little, if at all, with mild dehydration.

There's peer reviewed research on the subject showing that none of the drinks you mention have any dehydrating effect [1]. If you are aware of peer reviewed research to support your proposition please give details.

[1] Journal of The American College of Nutrition, vol19, p591


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## PK99 (5 Sep 2013)

Davidc said:


> Most of the second half of the article is about them!
> 
> nickyboy and PK99 would do well to read Barbara Rolls before suggesting drinking before feeling thirst (She's probably world number one on the subject).



can you point me at an appropriate article, i can't turn one up with google... I can see general nutrition articles and debunking of the 8 glasses a day but nothing concerning hydration during endurance exercise.


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## Gravity Aided (6 Sep 2013)

Eat before you are hungry, drink before you are thirsty, was the recommendation of Paul de Vivie, or Velocio, french writer, and father of Sportif Cycling,Touring, and Randonneuring, as well as inventor of the derailleur to some extent. Rode many miles at a great rate of speed well into his seventies. Also publisher of _Le Cycliste. _Sound advice from a master.


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## nickyboy (6 Sep 2013)

Davidc said:


> Most of the second half of the article is about them!
> 
> nickyboy and PK99 would do well to read Barbara Rolls before suggesting drinking before feeling thirst (She's probably world number one on the subject).


Ref please. I can't find anything terribly relevant by googling. Conversely, by searching "effect of dehydration on exercise performace" there are loads of scientific, peer reviewed articles. Here is a good one:

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n2s/full/1601897a.html

They confirm you only need to lose about 2% of your normal water volume to see some drop off in performance.


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## Davidc (6 Sep 2013)

I would never question the adverse effects of dehydration on performance, athletic, mental, or health in the longer term. When exercising, particularly when it's hot, dehydration can be dangerous. As you say there is much peer reviewed material on this and as far as I'm aware universal agreement.

What gets less prominence is the research and evidence about over hydration which can be and sometimes is fatal.

The issue is the rubbish written and passed on about what to do about dehydration and how to avoid it.

Google may not produce as much as you'd like since much of the work predates the web (1980s). Some was done to debunk the myths originating from misinterpretation of a 1945 public health publication in the USA. It's that misinterpretation which is still around and creates the myths seen in earlier posts.


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## Linford (6 Sep 2013)

Don't ya just love these peeing contests


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## Gravity Aided (6 Sep 2013)

Overhydration, I take that with a pinch of salt. Probably needs pee review, though.


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## PK99 (6 Sep 2013)

Gravity Aided said:


> Overhydration, I take that with a pinch of salt. Probably needs pee review, though.



Now you are just taking the.......


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## ufkacbln (6 Sep 2013)

Lets try an experiment....
Drink 3 pints of water and time the urine output
Drink 3 pints of beer and time the urine output 

Then state categorically that there is no diuretic effect!


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## Jaco45er (6 Sep 2013)

I'll drink to that


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## Spinney (6 Sep 2013)

fimm said:


> "Is it possible to drink too much water?" - yes it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia - it can be fatal.
> The "right amount" is personal, though - if my boyfriend & I got out for a long cycle together, with two full 500ml bottles each, there's some chance that I'll drink both of mine and pinch his second one - with no harm to either of us. He acknowledges that he seems to require less fluid than "normal" though - but it seems that this is "just the way he is".


This sounds just like me and my partner as well!


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## Linford (6 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Lets try an experiment....
> Drink 3 pints of water and time the urine output
> Drink 3 pints of beer and time the urine output
> 
> Then state categorically that there is no diuretic effect!



Isn't that called 'breaking the seal'


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## Davidc (8 Sep 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Lets try an experiment....
> Drink 3 pints of water and time the urine output
> Drink 3 pints of beer and time the urine output
> 
> Then state categorically that there is no diuretic effect!


Let's try another one.

Try reading the earlier posts in the thread and the referenced articles and then you'll avoid making a complete fool of yourself with stupid responses.

(If you consider downing 3 pints of beer to be moderate alcohol consumption can I suggest you urgently seek professional help).



Cunobelin said:


> Sorry- it does still not mention the diuretic effects of these drinks when dehydrated.
> 
> The statement stands, beer, coke, coffee and tea are diuretics, and if you are dehydrated will exacerbate the situation



It will be interesting to see your references for the second part of the second paragraph!

I'll also just point out that coke (the full sugar version) is used as a rehydrating medium, albeit at 50% concentration and no fizz, during disaster relief operations. It's hugely more effective than water.


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## ufkacbln (8 Sep 2013)

Oh dear, another assumption not borne out in reality, personal insults and then contradicts his own post!



Chiefly the contents of coke contain electrolytes, potassium and other essentials that aid the process of recovery - that is why it is more effective than water!
Did Barbara Rolls, not tell you that?

Now in your infinite wisdom and that of your goddess of dehydration, why do you think they don't use it "neat" and dilute it?

Otherwise let me get this right...
You are stating that there is no difference in the effects of diuretics if one is hydrated and dehydrated
You are fully aware of the mechanism by which these drinks affect diuresis
You are stating that beer does not have a diuretic effect
You are stating that Caffeine has no diuretic effect


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## Rob3rt (8 Sep 2013)

Here we go, the magazine subscribers out in force!


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## Jaco45er (8 Sep 2013)

3 pints of beer? I drink that while deciding what bottle of wine to open !!!!!


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## ufkacbln (8 Sep 2013)

Jaco45er said:


> 3 pints of beer? I drink that while deciding what bottle of wine to open !!!!!



That makes you a very naughty boy!



Davidc said:


> (If you consider downing 3 pints of beer to be moderate alcohol consumption can I suggest you urgently seek professional help).



I sought professional help, and the bar staff served me a fourth one!


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