# Problems with cross bike on hills



## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

Hi All,

I bought myself a Revolution Cross sport 13 about 4 weeks ago, so I'm still very much a beginner.

I eventually intend to use it for commuting (24mile round trip), but also on trails as well as day trips out etc. However, at the moment, I am mainly in training for the 63 mile Virgin Cyclone charity ride 29th June (Only 6 weeks to go!).

I haven't ridden for about a dozen years (I'm early 40's now), and only had an old road bike back then, so I don't think I've done too bad in having done 13, 13, 16, 24, 25 and 29 miles.

My problem now seems to be on the hills. I am struggling on anything too steep, or of any significant length. I'm having to get out of the saddle very early on steep climbs, as otherwise I would come to a stop, and even then I am finding it very hard. This charity ride has over 1,200 metres ascending, and only the 24 mile ride I did had any significant ascents (Over 500 metres), and it nearly killed me. When I was younger I actually used to enjoy climbing on my road bike, although it was lighter and I was probably only about 10 stone back then, so I don't think the problem is me and hills.

What's the main cause?

My beginner's lack of leg muscle power and fitness levels? (I usually play 5 a side once a week so not completely unfit).
The heavier nature of the cross bike as opposed to road? (11.9kg)
The grippy, thicker 33c tyres?
Does the lowest gear need to be on a smaller cog, more like a mountain bike ratio, to combat the slightly heavier weight?
Is it my extra weight? (14 stone on a 6 foot frame).

Or just a combination of all?

I'm a bit worried about completing this course purely because of the hills. They really do seem very tough going on this bike.

Any advice is welcome

Thanks


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## Canrider (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> What's the main cause?
> 
> My beginner's lack of leg muscle power and fitness levels? (I usually play 5 a side once a week so not completely unfit).


Probably just this. Running around the pitch is different muscle usage than grinding up a hill.
If time's short, you could switch the chainrings to a triple to give you an extra-low gear. Otherwise it's just a matter of practice and adapting to the new exertion.

Good luck!


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

What size tyres do you use Mort? And do they have any hills in Belgium?! I'm talking long and steep small country road hills,

Maybe I am just unfit then!


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## ianrauk (14 May 2013)

It's simple really and to be brutally honest.
You are unfit and not used to riding a bike.
But hey, a good lot of us on here have been in the same situation.
You just need to ride, ride and ride some more.. then go for another ride and keep riding.
You soon become quicker and better at riding and climbing hills.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

Mort,

Do you think it would make much difference getting 28c tyres as oppposed to the 33's I've got? The guy in the bike shop said he had a cross and used the 28c to commute with and they were fine. I'm just wondering if that would make climbing a bit easier?

What do you mean by spin the pedals?!


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> Mort,
> 
> Do you think it would make much difference getting 28c tyres as oppposed to the 33's I've got? The guy in the bike shop said he had a cross and used the 28c to commute with and they were fine. I'm just wondering if that would make climbing a bit easier?
> 
> What do you mean by spin the pedals?!


He means keep in the lowest gear where you can pedal quickly. It will probably help you a great deal.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

"He means keep in the lowest gear where you can pedal quickly. It will probably help you a great deal."

Oh don't worry, I'm not shy about dropping down the gears. I appear to run out of gears to drop down to though, which is the problem! I'd like another one or two.

How do you quote someone's text on here?!


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

[QUOTE 2453465, member: 259"]The stock ones fitted on mine were Maxix 33c ones, so I guess that's what you've got?

I found them too knobbly for riding on roads, so yes, it would probably make a difference if you switched to slicker tyres. I just put 28s on mine out of sheer force of habit.

deptfordmarmoset explained the spinning bit already. [/quote]

D'oh, got the hang of quotes now..

Yes, that's them. They seem to make it that bit heavier than it maybe needs to be. Will look into getting some 28's.

I have no idea what I'm looking for though. Any recommendations? How much cost wise?


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## MaxInc (14 May 2013)

Like you I believed that lifting weights and running 5k 3 times a week qualifies me as "reasonably fit" but to my surprise I almost fainted after cycling my first mile uphill. It gets better with time and training.

If you find the lowest pedal disc with the highest rear gear too difficult, you should probably try to conquer and smaller hill first until you can get some speed and then move onto the more difficult climbs.

Rule #10 applies here = It never gets easier, you just go faster.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

MaxInc said:


> Like you I believed that lifting weights and running 5k 3 times a week qualifies me as "reasonably fit" but to my surprise I almost fainted after cycling my first mile uphill. It gets better with time and training.
> 
> If you find the lowest pedal disc with the highest rear gear too difficult, you should probably try to conquer and smaller hill first until you can get some speed and then move onto the more difficult climbs.
> 
> Rule #10 applies here = It never gets easier, you just go faster.


 
This isn't the answer I wanted. I wanted someone to blame the bike and tyres, and tell me I am still a King of the Mountains contender!

I just need to get out there and do more hills.

Would there be much difference in the gear set up I have on my cross bike and that on a regular road bike? Would the lowest gear be any lower?


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## Canrider (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> Would there be much difference in the gear set up I have on my cross bike and that on a regular road bike? Would the lowest gear be any lower?


Looking at the spec online, you seem to have a double at the front with a 36T 'small' chainring, and a 11-27T set of cogs at the back (just say if this is incorrect, I looked for the 2013 model on the EBC website). I suggested a triple chainset at the front as a quick fix because that would give you something like a 30T small chainring at the front, so you'd have an additional range of low gearings to select for hill climbing. Or, you could find a 9-speed cassette for the rear wheel that has a larger cog than 27T, same effect. Or both.
As to a regular road bike, it really depends on the bike you compare to. The Revolution road bike has a 12-25T cassette, so a higher gearing than what you've got now (by a little bit).


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## ianrauk (14 May 2013)

Crossers usually have lower gearing then road bikes.


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## MaxInc (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> Would there be much difference in the gear set up I have on my cross bike and that on a regular road bike? Would the lowest gear be any lower?


 
Not an awful lot. My road bike has 50/34 chain rings with 12/28 cassette so the lowest possible gear would be 34/28 which would give a 1.21 ratio. On your bike (judging by online specs) the ratio is slightly higher with 46/36 chain rings and 12/27 cassette which would give you a 36/27 or 1.33. With that being said, I never used the last 3 gears with the small chain ring and I'm also a 4 week beginner. The more I ride the same hill, the less need I have for lower gears.

Mountain bikes or triple chain sets can offer an even lower ratios but I wouldn't upgrade the gearing on the bike at this stage until I would be certain that my fitness can no longer improve.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

Canrider said:


> Looking at the spec online, you seem to have a double at the front with a 36T 'small' chainring, and a 11-27T set of cogs at the back (just say if this is incorrect, I looked for the 2013 model on the EBC website). I suggested a triple chainset at the front as a quick fix because that would give you something like a 30T small chainring at the front, so you'd have an additional range of low gearings to select for hill climbing. Or, you could find a 9-speed cassette for the rear wheel that has a larger cog than 27T, same effect. Or both.
> As to a regular road bike, it really depends on the bike you compare to. The Revolution road bike has a 12-25T cassette, so a higher gearing than what you've got now (by a little bit).


 
I'm well out of my depth here. That is just a lot of numbers! I know I've got a double at the front and 18 gears in all.

Here's what it says on the shop online page....

Shifters Shimano Sora ST-3500 9 Speed
Rear Mech Shimano Sora RD-3500 SS
Front Mech Shimano Sora FD-3500, 31.8mm
Chainset FSA, Vero CX. 46/36t, 170mm Black
Bottom Bracket RPM, Cartridge Square Taper
Cassette / Freewheel Shimano, HG-50, 12-27t, 9 Speed


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## ianrauk (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> I'm well out of my depth here. That is just a lot of numbers! I know I've got a double at the front and 18 gears in all.
> 
> Here's what it says on the shop online page....
> 
> ...


 
The above is all you really need to worry about.
Most road bikes these days have compact double chainsets with 50/34 teeth, you have 46/36.
At the rear they usually have 11-27 or slightly higher, you have 12-27

What you currently have is pretty low gearing.
As I said previous, just get on and ride as much as you can. It won't take long to build your stamina and riding power.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

ianrauk said:


> The above is all you really need to worry about.
> Most road bikes these days have compact double chainsets with 50/34 teeth, you have 46/36.
> At the rear they usually have 11-27 or slightly higher, you have 12-27
> 
> ...


 
Curses! This means it's just down to me being a lard arse.

More riding it is then, though I am tempted to try the 28c tyres.


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## ianrauk (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> Curses! This means it's just down to me being a lard arse.
> 
> More riding it is then, though I am tempted to try the 28c tyres.


 
28c tyres will help....marginally


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## MaxInc (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> More riding it is then, though I am tempted to try the 28c tyres.


 
The problem I see with that is that the inevitable progress will be credited to the tyre rather than you since at this stage you are likely to improve at a faster rate than a simple tyre upgrade  Strava can be a very good motivator if you follow a few set routes several times and compare your personal bests for various segments.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

MaxInc said:


> The problem I see with that is that the inevitable progress will be credited to the tyre rather than you since at this stage you are likely to improve at a faster rate than a simple tyre upgrade  Strava can be a very good motivator if you follow a few set routes several times and compare your personal bests for various segments.


 
I've used strava all along, and have done 13, 13, 16, 24, 25 and 30 miles in my rides so far.


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## MaxInc (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> I've used strava all along, and have done 13, 13, 16, 24, 25 and 30 miles in my rides so far.


 
What I meant is that if you do for example the same 24mile trip several times, over the same segments and hills, you can see the progress you make by comparing your times and speeds with previous attempts. I found this a better indicator for my progress that just counting miles since a 10mile hilly course can require a lot more effort than cruising along on a 40mile flat stretch.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

MaxInc said:


> What I meant is that if you do for example the same 24mile trip several times, over the same segments and hills, you can see the progress you make by comparing your times and speeds with previous attempts. I found this a better indicator for my progress that just counting miles since a 10mile hilly course can require a lot more effort than cruising along on a 40mile flat stretch.


 
Ah right, gotcha. yes, I've done about three different courses so far, so in the next few weeks I expect to go back over them. The weather plays a part too. Two of my earlier rides were in very windy conditions, which is quite disheartening.

My last two bigger rides have been on fairly easy courses. No major hills at all, just inclines. I need to get back to the hills and see how it goes.


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## CopperCyclist (14 May 2013)

I echo what people have said, it's just primarily a simple case of to get better on hills, do more hills.

However, for a tiny bit of technique - make sure you don't lose momentum into the hill. It's often better to push a little harder on the lead up to the hill, and keep that extra touch of speed for longer, than to see it coming, slow down too soon and grind up it.

The tyres won't make enough difference to notice, honestly. I climb hills on my cx's 35mm tyres with relative ease, very little difference to the road bikes 23mm. Extra psi may help - are you at the max psi for your tyres? Low psi gives a little bit of energy sapping suspension - though not a lot.

It goes back to what's been said - there may be a couple of thing that make a tiny, tiny, difference - but to make a noticeable one you need to get out there and start climbing


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## Ciar (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I bought myself a Revolution Cross sport 13 about 4 weeks ago, so I'm still very much a beginner.
> 
> ...


 
Hello mate, sounds a bit like me, i am early 40's restarted riding back in December, first time on a hill killed me, the guy who i train with for my first ride took me across the hills in Buckhurst Hill oooooh the pain! first off road ride a few months later less painful but the bloody hills!

I feel your pain, but as everyone has said with much more experience than me, they do get less painful haha, all the same best of luck and keep at it, I will be doing my first proper weekly commute in around 2 weeks, so really looking forward to it as i bet you will do soon.


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## youngoldbloke (14 May 2013)

ianrauk said:


> It's simple really and to be brutally honest.
> You are unfit and not used to riding a bike.
> But hey, a good lot of us on here have been in the same situation.
> You just need to ride, ride and ride some more.. then go for another ride and keep riding.
> You soon become quicker and better at riding and climbing hills.


^ this. You have only cycled a grand total of 120 miles so far after all. Slicker tyres would help, but _cycling_ fitness first.


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## boydj (14 May 2013)

ianrauk said:


> 28c tyres will help....marginally


Smooth, slightly narrower, road tyres, run at a decent pressure will help - particularly when it comes to the long ride you are training for. If you've not got a track pump, then get one and make sure that your tyres are up at 75 - 90 psi (or about 85 - 90% of the max indicated on the tyre wall).


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

boydj said:


> Smooth, slightly narrower, road tyres, run at a decent pressure will help - particularly when it comes to the long ride you are training for. If you've not got a track pump, then get one and make sure that your tyres are up at 75 - 90 psi (or about 85 - 90% of the max indicated on the tyre wall).


 
Yeah I've got myself a track pump mate. Will look into the tyres.


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## avsd (14 May 2013)

The bad news is I in my 50's and still hate hills. The real reason - I am too heavy (13st & 5' 8"). Two things will help you

1. Try to lose some weight - even 1/2 Stone will make a big difference.
2. Interval train on a hill. Find a fill that takes you 2-3 minutes to ride up and repeat 10 times. Keep doing this at least twice a week. Google interval training. cycling, hills for more details.

Finally it will not help with the charity event but read the rules they are a bit of fun and enjoy your cycling. 50 miles is something like the average cycled in the UK per person per year so I am sure you will finish the year above average.

The rules can be found at
_www.velominati.com/the-*rules*/_‎ and Rule 5 is quoted a lot around here once you have settled in


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## Andrew_P (14 May 2013)

I cruise up hills I used to have to walk up 2 years ago. So totally agree with Ian.

Rome was not built in a day nor will your Cardio and legs be match fit in a few or frankly 50 rides.


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## Raleigh_Grifter (14 May 2013)

[QUOTE 2454367, member: 259"]Honestly, having got back home and looked at the original Maxixs tyres mine was fitted with, I reckon you could improve things rapidly by swapping them for anything - they are extremely knobbly![/quote]

That's what I was thinking. Even compared to other cross bike tyres in the shop they seemed really chunky!


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## DaveyM (14 May 2013)

Raleigh_Grifter said:


> That's what I was thinking. Even compared to other cross bike tyres in the shop they seemed really chunky!


 
I changed mine for Specailized Armidilo's 28's seem a bit quicker on the road, but fitness improved fitness has made a much greater difference to me!


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## themosquitoking (14 May 2013)

DaveyM said:


> I changed mine for Specailized Armidilo's 28's seem a bit quicker on the road, but fitness improved fitness has made a much greater difference to me!


+1 for Armidilos, i run those on my hybrid.


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## DougieAB (15 May 2013)

I've been commuting on the Revolution Cross (bog standard, not Pro) for a year now in hilly Edinburgh. Like you my commute is 25 miles a day. Only drove to work 1 day last year. My only recommendation would be to update your tyres as the Maxis are pretty bad for getting punctures. I fitted the Schwalbe Greenguards which are a fair bit cheaper than the Marathon Plus but still have great puncture protection.


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