# If we can't win then we don't enter...



## totallyfixed (24 Sep 2013)

Would appear to be the attitude of Mr Brailsford, if this is true, what a prat. I just cannot believe that we do not have a single entrant for the Women's Time Trial in the World's. Plenty of candidates and some with a real chance of certainly top 10 and maybe top 5 depending on the course. What the rest of the world think of us I can't begin to guess, but for sure it doesn't exactly enhance our reputation as a top competitive cycling nation.
Yours
Disgusted


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## uphillstruggler (24 Sep 2013)

so much for giving them some experience, which at the top level, counts for quite a bit I would imagine.

maybe he has a valid reason but the 'if we cant win' attitude doesn't seem to cut it.


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## montage (24 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Would appear to be the attitude of Mr Brailsford, if this is true, what a prat. I just cannot believe that we do not have a single entrant for the Women's Time Trial in the World's. Plenty of candidates and some with a real chance of certainly top 10 and maybe top 5 depending on the course. What the rest of the world think of us I can't begin to guess, but for sure it doesn't exactly enhance our reputation as a top competitive cycling nation.
> Yours
> Disgusted



Hardly been his philosophy over the last few years though has it - he has given plenty of riders the opportunity for team GB over the years, time and time again.
Also why tire a rider out for the sake of coming 50th in the time trial when they may have an important role to play in the RR a few days later?
And who is it you think would certainly get a top 10?


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## Rob3rt (24 Sep 2013)

Joanna Rowsell was out injured recently I believe but if she is getting back to fitness, she might have been worth a punt!


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## totallyfixed (24 Sep 2013)

montage said:


> Hardly been his philosophy over the last few years though has it - he has given plenty of riders the opportunity for team GB over the years, time and time again.
> Also why tire a rider out for the sake of coming 50th in the time trial when they may have an important role to play in the RR a few days later?
> And who is it you think would certainly get a top 10?


The point I am making is a general one, ie if all teams behaved in the same way as GB it would be a bit farcical. As for giving plenty of riders opportunities, well that may be to a certain extent in track but then again at the last 2 world track champs we were conspicuous by our absence and in all cases there is merit in sending younger riders for the experience. GB is not facing any greater difficulties than any other team and in most cases considerably less.
The sceptic in me could almost believe he is protecting his reputation.
I don't need to name names, if you don't know them perhaps it is because you don't follow women's time trialling, not a criticism.


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## BigSteev (25 Sep 2013)

Of course we didn't have an entrant in the women's ITT. Surely you're aware that the far more important National Track Champs are this week. That's also why we're only using 4 of the 6 qualified spots that we have for the women's road race too. 


*Note - this post may contain sarcasm.


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## zizou (25 Sep 2013)

When Cavendish was racing on the track recently he mentioned that there is a new qualification system for entry into the track world cup (which has knock on effects to the track world championships and olympics) so perhaps doing the national track championships are necessary for the women involved if they want to continue their track career at the highest level? For Trott and King at least their focus and longer term goals still seem to be based on the track even if they are also racing on the road. 

I suspect part of the issue is not wanting to take riders who are outside (or have not been in) the British Cycling and Olympic development programme testing pool. The risk might be very small but the potential consequences for reputation (and more importantly funding) would be huge.



totallyfixed said:


> The point I am making is a general one, ie if all teams behaved in the same way as GB it would be a bit farcical. As for giving plenty of riders opportunities, well that may be to a certain extent in track but then again at the last 2 world track champs we were conspicuous by our absence and in all cases there is merit in sending younger riders for the experience. GB is not facing any greater difficulties than any other team and in most cases considerably less.
> The sceptic in me could almost believe he is protecting his reputation.



All of the focus is on the Olympic cycles because that is where so much of the funding comes from. It is harsh for some of the riders involved (or rather those not involved) but the outcomes seem to show their strategy for blooding new talent while also remaining successful to be pretty spot on.


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## oldroadman (25 Sep 2013)

The system appears to work. There will always be someone who does not like it. In past years, people taken to championships "for experience" did not appear to benefit by coming back with proper results. We don't do that any more. BC were castigated for concentrating on the track for some years. Exactly what the Australians did. From their track endurance riders came some of the world's best road riders, as has happened at GB. People moaned about the track focus. But it all worked through. No chamce of a credible showing - no point in going. Which is what the No1 country should be doing, because that kind of ruthless selection policy is required to keep GB at the top, and reared by other nations, simply because when a GB team or rider is present, everyone knows they are not there to make up the numbers.
All brutal but effective. There is no woman available to ride the TT at a standard which might see a high finish? Don't compete and end up with 25th place. That used to happen and thank goodness it's in the past.


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## montage (26 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> The point I am making is a general one, ie if all teams behaved in the same way as GB it would be a bit farcical. As for giving plenty of riders opportunities, well that may be to a certain extent in track but then again at the last 2 world track champs we were conspicuous by our absence and in all cases there is merit in sending younger riders for the experience. GB is not facing any greater difficulties than any other team and in most cases considerably less.
> The sceptic in me could almost believe he is protecting his reputation.
> I don't need to name names, if you don't know them perhaps it is because you don't follow women's time trialling, not a criticism.



No expert in womens cycling, but I follow it enough. Still interested in who you think could get a top 10 easily, possibly a top 5. Roswell has been out of it and Armistead will no doubt be concentrating on the road race. I don't really understand why you put so much scorn into your opening post, do you have a vendetta again Brailsford, or think you could do the job better?


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## totallyfixed (26 Sep 2013)

montage said:


> think you could do the job better?



Let's not get personal, I didn't say that. It isn't the first time I have been disappointed with the lack of GB entrants at an international competition, be it track or road. This is the World Championships and you don't see our rivals not entering, many of the women that competed in the TTT also rode in the individual TT and did very well, so where was Katie Colclough? Even our best amateur I believe would have shown well. If the attitude is one of, winning is everything, and that is the cut throat approach of BC then I personally believe that is not a healthy attitude. I don't see that it is working either as we are lying in joint 8th place with Denmark on the medal table.


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

CHRISTIAN Anna and HAYWARD Bethany were racing this morning for the women's juniors. I've not seen how they got on yet.

Doull, Dibben, Perret, Slater and the 2 Yates are racing this afternoon - Men's U23


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## Buddfox (27 Sep 2013)

Hayward 20th and Christian 25th. I've not seen the details yet but I think a four person breakaway got out and wasn't quite reeled in by the finish. Race was won by Dideriksen of Denmark. British Cycling summary says that Hayward and Christian had to do most of the work to try and bridge back to the breakaway but couldn't quite get it done.


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## Hacienda71 (28 Sep 2013)

Katie Colclough is retiring at 23


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## totallyfixed (28 Sep 2013)

Sigh, no surprises today, a weak GB team so no one there at the end. Had a long chat today with one of the women who should have gone, bitterly disappointed as expected and laid the blame firmly at Shane Sutton's feet, so in that I was wrong, although DB had to approve that decision I would have thought. 
Vos magnificent as usual, and although she has now won it 3 times it will be the men's winner who will dominate the news in the next few days,


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## oldroadman (29 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Sigh, no surprises today, a weak GB team so no one there at the end. Had a long chat today with one of the women who should have gone, bitterly disappointed as expected and laid the blame firmly at Shane Sutton's feet, so in that I was wrong, although DB had to approve that decision I would have thought.
> Vos magnificent as usual, and although she has now won it 3 times it will be the men's winner who will dominate the news in the next few days,


 
So, first it's wrong NOT to send a rider without much hope of a result, and NOW it's a weak team?
Take your pick.
But it's simply easier to blame someone who will have no comeback (even if they wanted to).
Learn something, sport in this country depends on results. With results come money from the government, via agancies. It's all in the public domain. So real world is podium places are required, to justify the millions spent. Not a difficult concept, to understand that the way to get to this point is by the hard road called perform or show potential, or out.
The days of sending no-hopers are, happily, in the past, along with the good old "plucky loser" and "send for experience" routines.


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## ColinJ (29 Sep 2013)

oldroadman said:


> The days of sending no-hopers are, happily, in the past, along with the good old "plucky loser" and "send for experience" routines.


In which case, why do 90% of the nations bother sending teams, since they don't stand much chance of a medal?

If they all took your attitude, there would be only be about 100 riders in the race!


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## totallyfixed (29 Sep 2013)

oldroadman said:


> So, first it's wrong NOT to send a rider without much hope of a result, and NOW it's a weak team?
> Take your pick.
> But it's simply easier to blame someone who will have no comeback (even if they wanted to).
> Learn something, sport in this country depends on results. With results come money from the government, via agancies. It's all in the public domain. So real world is podium places are required, to justify the millions spent. Not a difficult concept, to understand that the way to get to this point is by the hard road called perform or show potential, or out.
> The days of sending no-hopers are, happily, in the past, along with the good old "plucky loser" and "send for experience" routines.


Well if you didn't understand what I was saying it's not surprising you replied in the way you did, I'll try and explain it to you, and this is not just my opinion, a weak team is one that is comprised of 4 riders instead of 6. This put GB alongside the traditionally "weaker" nations. If you are not in it you can't win it, you learn your trade at the top by competing at the top. As well as this the peleton is not made up of trade teams who know each others strengths with every rider having a role to play and therefore anything can happen and frequently does.
A big part of the problem as I see it is that the pedestal has been placed so high, everyone now expects a rider in a GB top to be somewhere on the podium, if not at the top, and as seen from the ongoing men's race it just isn't always going to happen. There will be some riders in there who didn't expect to still be around for the final lap, but they are, and I say well done to them because even if they "only" finish 20th they will be proud of that and so they should be. You can't win all the time, not a problem in my book, but you can't win at all if you are not there.


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