# Took the dog for a walk today



## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

As the title says! I took the dog for a walk today along the leeds/liverpool canal. My dog is a well behaved staffie. When a runner or cyclist came along a called him to heel and straight away he comes and stands by me and waits until i tell him its ok to move. The amout of ignorant arrogant bastards that dont say thanks,cheers mate kiss my arse or anything is unreal! I'd say at least 8 out of ten. I can understand the fury dog walkers get with cyclists that just barge there way past as if its their god given right to travelling there unrestricted. It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> As the title says! I took the dog for a walk today along the leeds/liverpool canal. My dog is a well behaved staffie. When a runner or cyclist came along a called him to heel and straight away he comes and stands by me and waits until i tell him its ok to move. The amout of ignorant arrogant bastards that dont say thanks,cheers mate kiss my arse or anything is unreal! I'd say at least 8 out of ten. I can understand the fury dog walkers get with cyclists that just barge there way past as if its their god given right to travelling there unrestricted. It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.



You do the bare minimum that you are meant to do and you expect to be thanked for it! When on the bike, do you intned to kiss the feet of every car drive you meet, to thank them for not killing you?


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## citybabe (6 Nov 2011)

There's nothing wrong with giving a polite thank you just out of thoughtfulness


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## david k (6 Nov 2011)

there are ignorant people everywhere, some ride bikes and some own dogs. i try to keep my calm, live and let live, you cannot fight every battle


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## gbb (6 Nov 2011)

citybabe said:


> There's nothing wrong with giving a polite thank you just out of thoughtfulness


This is true. If anyone makes even what should be a normal effort to behave in a way that doesnt cause others inconvenience...it deserves a thankyou in return.



david k said:


> there are ignorant people everywhere, some ride bikes and some own dogs. i try to keep my calm, live and let live, you cannot fight every battle


This is sadly also true. I shrug my shoulders and carry on when i meet these people, happy in the knowledge that i'm probably a happier, more polite, decent human being than they ever will be.


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## soulful dog (6 Nov 2011)

I generally say thanks to anyone who calls their dog and gets them to wait like that. I wouldn't say those who don't are ignorant or arrogant though. 

You are using a shared use path, so it's up to everyone using it to show a bit of common courtesy or even just basic common sense. Sadly, both can be lacking!


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

@LYB, Er! Yes! I do. I moved for him so why shouldnt he thank me. If i didnt move he would have had to slow down or even stop. So in effect i was helping him, so why shouldnt i get a cheers or a thank you, after all manners dont cost anything. i was polite enough to move so he,they should be polite enough to aknowlege the fact. You dont say thanks do you? i can tell.


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## peelywally (6 Nov 2011)

i always say ty and nod or both when someone lets me past or calls the dog to heel its like nervous tick nowadays , 

i bet i do it when its not required just out of habit in fact


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## Moss (6 Nov 2011)

Good Manners and polite social interaction costs nothing! I Pride myself on have good etiquette; and even being polite to those ignorant So-N-So's you meet from time to time.


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## enitharmon (6 Nov 2011)

I've found it easy to slip into a habit of waving an acknowledgement to car drivers. If they have made a point of giving way, to let me move into the right-hand lane perhaps, or to pull out, or to turn right, the wave will be accompanied by a cheerful smile. If the driver has cut me up (like a taxi driver did the other day on a roundabout, pulling in front of me before executing what was almost a handbrake turn across my bows to leave the roundabout) the wave will be accompanied by the outstretched index and middle fingers and a blue tinge to the surrounding air.


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## Bicycle (6 Nov 2011)

I'm 100% with the OP on this one. Everyone who gives way or modifies their speed, position or timing to make allowances for another person deserves a nod and a smile.

Cars, tractors, cyclists, dogwalkers, tanker drivers... everyone.

Sometimes a hand waved in thanks and sometimes a verbal "Thank you".

I recall vividly about 10 years ago riding a littl'un to primary school. I was on a footpath that was once a rail cutting. A dog owner pulled his mutts in close to heel and stood aside.

Concentrating on my child, I completely ignored the gesture and got a sarcastic "My pleasure!" as I passed.

Initial mild ire quikly gave way to embarrassment. The OP is right to expect a wave, a nod or a smile.

But.... many people are rude and egocentric. The OP will be disappointed many more times.


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## david k (6 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I'm 100% with the OP on this one. Everyone who gives way or modifies their speed, position or timing to make allowances for another person deserves a nod and a smile.
> 
> Cars, tractors, cyclists, dogwalkers, tanker drivers... everyone.
> 
> ...




+1


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> You do the bare minimum that you are meant to do and you expect to be thanked for it! When on the bike, do you intned to kiss the feet of every car drive you meet, to thank them for not killing you?



+1. if you didn't control the dog then you'd end up in trouble, do you pick up dogshit when your on the canal? i reckon most don't with the state of the footpaths at times. isn't it a legal requirement for dogs to be on leads in public places now anyway?


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## Arrowfoot (6 Nov 2011)

This post took my breath away. 


The reason that you called the dog to heel is to avoid a possible unpleasant incident and a possible accompanying lawsuit. This is very different from someone who gives way to you when that person has the right of way or opens the door to let you in or picks up a coin that you dropped. 

One should be able to tell the difference between an act of grace and an act of self-preservation. If you receive a compliment of any sort or a thank you, take it as a bonus. Lets encourage a gracious society and I am big fan of politeness and thank you for the unexcepted act but heeling you dog does not fall in the frame.

As someone said - you did the bare minimum. Now you know why people are campaigning for dogs on leashes in public places. All it takes is for the owner's attention to be diverted. For this reason, I see owner who leash their dogs as they walk them when they don't have to. Should I go up and thank them.

And I am dog owner, a recent cyclist and a general member of the public. 






SurlyNomad said:


> As the title says! I took the dog for a walk today along the leeds/liverpool canal. My dog is a well behaved staffie. When a runner or cyclist came along a called him to heel and straight away he comes and stands by me and waits until i tell him its ok to move. The amout of ignorant arrogant bastards that dont say thanks,cheers mate kiss my arse or anything is unreal! I'd say at least 8 out of ten. I can understand the fury dog walkers get with cyclists that just barge there way past as if its their god given right to travelling there unrestricted. It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> @LYB, Er! Yes! I do. I moved for him so why shouldnt he thank me. If i didnt move he would have had to slow down or even stop. So in effect i was helping him, so why shouldnt i get a cheers or a thank you, after all manners dont cost anything. i was polite enough to move so he,they should be polite enough to aknowlege the fact. You dont say thanks do you? i can tell.



Do you thank all the car drivers you meet for not killing you?


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> Do you thank all the car drivers you meet for not killing you?



I do thank every driver who lets me in with a thumbs up. 

I think mainly because of being in the car with me crazy dad and hearing him scream "Don't say thank you, you ******* ***** *****! Was your mother a whore?!" to all other drivers who don't say thanks!

You don't need to say thanks, but it's nice to and can really cheer up a person's day.


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## coffeejo (6 Nov 2011)

I wouldn't phrase it the same way as the OP, but I'm a dog-owner and a cyclist. When I'm out with the dog, I acknowledge / thank other road users as appropriate and when I'm on the bike, I do the same. A friend and I did a few miles on the Taunton canal path this afternoon and said a cheery 'thank you!' to everyone we met and in return received lots of hellos and other equally cheery comments, making for a pleasurable end to our ride.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> I do thank every driver who lets me in with a thumbs up.



Because they have gone above and beyond, not because they have done the minimum expected of them.


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## Andy_R (6 Nov 2011)

It is a shame that in our community we have someone with a distinct pavlovian reaction to the word dog. LYB get over yourself. Common courtesy, even to dog owners (gasp! shock! horror!), makes life easier for everyone. When I go to the shops, I say thank you to whoever served me. They're not going above and beyond, merely doing what they're supposed to, but it makes them feel better and I have to say, me too.When I'm out with my dog, I get him to sit and wait for passing cyclists and I like to hear people say thank you. When I'm out on my bike, I thank people who get their dogs to sit and wait. Basic good manners as far as I'm concerned.


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

peelywally said:


> i always say ty and nod or both when someone lets me past or calls the dog to heel its like nervous tick nowadays ,
> 
> i bet i do it when its not required just out of habit in fact


+1 
Manners cost nothing and if everyone was as friendly as those in agreement with the op then the world would be a happier place,unfortunately though there will always be those who feel they owe no-one anything,not even courtesy.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Andy_R said:


> It is a shame that in our community we have someone with a distinct pavlovian reaction to the word dog. LYB get over yourself. Common courtesy, even to dog owners (gasp! shock! horror!), makes life easier for everyone. When I go to the shops, I say thank you to whoever served me. They're not going above and beyond, merely doing what they're supposed to, but it makes them feel better and I have to say, me too.When I'm out with my dog, I get him to sit and wait for passing cyclists and I like to hear people say thank you. When I'm out on my bike, I thank people who get their dogs to sit and wait. Basic good manners as far as I'm concerned.



common courtesy? you mean controlling an animal so that it doesn't unsettle a cyclist or make a nuisance of its self? i'm assuming he had to make the dog heel because he was worried that the animal wouldn't become a nuisance. perhaps passing cyclists are not saying thanks because they are keeping an eye on a selfishly UNLEASHED animal in a public place.

the sheer arrogance of the op is stunning and selfish on so many levels.


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## Dayvo (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> common courtesy? you mean controlling an animal so that it doesn't unsettle a cyclist or make a nuisance of its self? i'm assuming he had to make the dog heel because he was worried that the animal wouldn't become a nuisance. perhaps passing cyclists are not saying thanks because they are keeping an eye on a selfishly UNLEASHED animal in a public place.
> 
> the sheer arrogance of the op is stunning and selfish on so many levels.




I wonder if you ever smile when you look in the mirror! Probably not, is my guess, but that's your choice, and if you can't be nice to yourself, then why should you be nice to others?


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## david k (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> common courtesy? you mean controlling an animal so that it doesn't unsettle a cyclist or make a nuisance of its self? i'm assuming he had to make the dog heel because he was worried that the animal wouldn't become a nuisance. perhaps passing cyclists are not saying thanks because they are keeping an eye on a selfishly UNLEASHED animal in a public place.
> 
> the sheer arrogance of the op is stunning and selfish on so many levels.



i get your point but theres still nothing wrong with a quick 'cheers mate'


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Dayvo said:


> I wonder if you ever smile when you look in the mirror! Probably not, is my guess, but that's your choice, and if you can't be nice to yourself, then why should you be nice to others?



eh? what's your point?


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Not really understanding why all the anger and offence is necessary on the thread.

What's wrong with saying thanks as a natural response? Are we really that self-important that we're going to reserve it for special occasions?


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

david k said:


> i get your point but theres still nothing wrong with a quick 'cheers mate'



Nothing wrong with it, until it's demanded as Danegeld!


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## ColinJ (6 Nov 2011)

I say thanks to dog owners who control their dogs for me, drivers who don't overtake me where they shouldn't or who give way to me, people who don't let doors slam in my face and so on, even though they are only doing what I'd expect them to do. 

OTOH if they _don't_ do what I expect them to do, they do sometimes get a tongue-lashing!


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Not really understanding why all the anger and offence is necessary on the thread.



I think you might want to look to the OP.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Not really understanding why all the anger and offence is necessary on the thread.
> 
> What's wrong with saying thanks as a natural response? Are we really that self-important that we're going to reserve it for special occasions?




sorry but did you understand the op? he EXPECTED to be thanked by all for keeping an UNLEASHED animal under control, in fact he ranted about it. i'm annoyed because i ride the l&l canal quite a bit and i know what a nuisance UNLEASHED dogs are and have been nearly unbalanced into the canal by dogs. WHY do you think idiots who have UNLEASHED animals should be thanked? i am totally exasperated, i really am, do you thank cars for stopping at pelican crossings? or for stopping at roundabouts?


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## Andy_R (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> common courtesy? you mean controlling an animal so that it doesn't unsettle a cyclist or make a nuisance of its self? i'm assuming he had to make the dog heel because he was worried that the animal wouldn't become a nuisance. perhaps passing cyclists are not saying thanks because they are keeping an eye on a selfishly UNLEASHED animal in a public place.
> 
> the sheer arrogance of the op is stunning and selfish on so many levels.



So sad. You totally miss the point. Let's subsitute dog with small child. Is your attuitude still the same? Bear in mind that the Leeds Liverpool Canal towpath is covered by the British Waterways code of conduct for cyclists which means that pedestrians *always* have priority so someone who waits for you to pass is actually going above and beyond too. As for calling a dog to heel, the owner is acting in a responsible manner to prevent an accident. I would also like to point out that by letting the dog off the lead in a safe environment like a towpath gives it a lot more stimulation and exercise than keeping it leashed. In just the same way that allowing cyclists to use towpaths gives them more stimulation and exercise. Both have the same valid reasons to use that route. Towpaths are not public places, they are private, owned by British waterways, and the public are allowed to use them providing they abide by the relvent codes of conduct and obtain the relevant permits where necessary.


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## Andy_R (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Not really understanding why all the anger and offence is necessary on the thread.



Its because LYB read the word dog and saw red as usual.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

plus nobody is having a go at the op for threatening to intentionally leave 'his well behaved staffi' to risk hurting a cyclist or other towpath user.

the op is arrogant and quite vexatious when he doesn't get, what he perceives to be his god given right, i.e he can't enjoy a walk down HIS canal towpath with his dog out of control (and i'm guessing shitting where it feels like) without pesky cyclists ruining his god given rights.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> I think you might want to look to the OP.






bromptonfb said:


> sorry but did you understand the op? he EXPECTED to be thanked by all for keeping an UNLEASHED animal under control, in fact he ranted about it. i'm annoyed because i ride the l&l canal quite a bit and i know what a nuisance UNLEASHED dogs are and have been nearly unbalanced into the canal by dogs. WHY do you think idiots who have UNLEASHED animals should be thanked? i am totally exasperated, i really am, do you thank cars for stopping at pelican crossings? or for stopping at roundabouts?



I read the original post and yes, he was a bit more cross than normal, but yes I thank dog/child owners for moving their dogs/kids as a lot of them don't bother these days. Same with pedestrians on shared paths on the "wrong side" - if they move over, I thank them.

I do thank cars that stop at zebra crossings, as a lot of them don't, even though it's a legal requirement. It's not a legal requirement for dogs to be on a leash everywhere, so yup, I will thank them.

Roundabouts?! If they even bother to indicate which exit they are taking I'm on the verge of tears with gratitude, so of they let me go, a quick wave and a smile diesn't hurt me.

The op is having a rant on a forum, it's not like he shouted at the cyclists or smeared dog poo in their faces, is it. It's just a "what happened to please and thank you?" rant that I often have myself.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

Andy_R said:


> So sad. You totally miss the point. Let's subsitute dog with small child. Is your attuitude still the same? Bear in mind that the Leeds Liverpool Canal towpath is covered by the British Waterways code of conduct for cyclists which means that pedestrians *always* have priority so someone who waits for you to pass is actually going above and beyond too. As for calling a dog to heel, the owner is acting in a responsible manner to prevent an accident. I would also like to point out that by letting the dog off the lead in a safe environment like a towpath gives it a lot more stimulation and exercise than keeping it leashed. In just the same way that allowing cyclists to use towpaths gives them more stimulation and exercise. Both have the same valid reasons to use that route. Towpaths are not public places, they are private, owned by British waterways, and the public are allowed to use them providing they abide by the relvent codes of conduct and obtain the relevant permits where necessary.



And that code states that you can use it if you keep the animal under control. So the OP does that he is obliged to do, and yet wants to be thanked?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> I read the original post and yes, he was a bit more cross than normal, but yes I thank dog/child owners for moving their dogs/kids as a lot of them don't bother these days. Same with pedestrians on shared paths on the "wrong side" - if they move over, I thank them.
> 
> I do thank cars that stop at zebra crossings, as a lot of them don't, even though it's a legal requirement. It's not a legal requirement for dogs to be on a leash everywhere, so yup, I will thank them.
> 
> ...



sorry but i read it differently, he basically said because he didn't get what he thought he deserved he was going to let his dog run wild. with regards to not legally needing to keep the dog on a lead in the first place, please read the british waterways website. if an unleashed dog has you off on the canal bank, no win no fees solicitors will have field day taking your money off you.

plus, why, if he is such a nice fella, does he have his dog of the leash in a narrow public place in the first place.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> And that code states that you can use it if you keep the animal under control. So the OP does that he is obliged to do, and yet wants to be thanked?



But what's wrong with thanking someone for doing something they're obliged to do? I actually don't understand this.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

and why is he allowed to rant in a public forum, but people who disagree are not?


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## Arch (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> plus nobody is having a go at the op for threatening to intentionally leave 'his well behaved staffi' to risk hurting a cyclist or other towpath user.
> 
> the op is arrogant and quite vexatious when he doesn't get, what he perceives to be his god given right, i.e he can't enjoy a walk down HIS canal towpath with his dog out of control (and i'm guessing shitting where it feels like) without pesky cyclists ruining his god given rights.



If you're going to be arsey, at least learn where the shift key is, old boy.

I must say, while there is a point that people don't deserve thanks for doing what they ought to (I actually try not to thank drivers who stop for zebras, because they should anyway, but often I raise a hand to wave thanks involuntarily), any parent knows that thanking children for doing what they are asked reinforces good behaviour. Also, it costs nothing - it's extremely rare that one is concentrating so hard that one can't spare the breath and brain power for a quick "Cheers!".

Also, pedestrians, anywhere, have priority. It might be annoying, but it's the bottom of a very important pyramid, which denies the idea that might is right, and I for one am thankful for it.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> But what's wrong with thanking someone for doing something they're obliged to do? I actually don't understand this.



Nothing at all. and if someone wants to do so I certainly wouidn't want to stop stop them.

But that's not what is being discussed, the OP is demanding tribute for doing something that he should be doing.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry but i read it differently, he basically said because he didn't get what he thought he deserved he was going to let his dog run wild. with regards to not legally needing to keep the dog on a lead in the first place, please read the british waterways website. if an unleashed dog has you off on the canal bank, no win no fees solicitors will have field day taking your money off you.
> 
> plus, why, if he is such a nice fella, does he have his dog of the leash in a narrow public place in the first place.



He's letting off steam. He's said to us "maybe next time I might not call my dog, causing a minor inconvenience to the cyclist... Mwahahaha!" The same way I might say that I might rape someone with a garden fork if they mildly annoy me. I won't actually do it and he probably wouldn't either, as apart from anything else, it would endanger his doggy.

If he'd have said that he was going to follow the cyclist home and force him to watch as he slowly dismembered his family in front of him, then I'd nearly understand the actual rage being shown here.

I suspect there is more than an element of flippancy and bravado in the original post.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> Also, pedestrians, anywhere, have priority. It might be annoying, but it's the bottom of a very important pyramid, which denies the idea that might is right, and I for one am thankful for it.



A dog is not a pedestrian. 
The OP wasn't demanding cyclists kowtow to him because he was a pedestrain ( At least not originally, he tried rewritiing history a bit later) What the OP wants is for forelocks to be tugged because he was simply following the rules of access.


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> the sheer arrogance of the op is stunning and selfish on so many levels.


WTF Seriously ?????????????????
In all seriousness you must be having a laugh........................surely


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## Hip Priest (6 Nov 2011)

I always give a nod of thanks to anyone who moves their dog out of the way for me. Okay, they're doing what they're supposed to do, but there's no harm in a bit of friendly interaction. 

It's worth bearing in mind that bicycles are the cars of shared paths.


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## CopperCyclist (6 Nov 2011)

Surly - I and many other polite people would have said thanks. Thank you.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I always give a nod of thanks to anyone who moves their dog out of the way for me. Okay, they're doing what they're supposed to do, but there's no harm in a bit of friendly interaction.
> 
> It's worth bearing in mind that bicycles are the cars of shared paths.



+1


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> A dog is not a pedestrian.



Damn dogs in their damn 4x4s!


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## potsy (6 Nov 2011)

CopperCyclist said:


> Surly - I and many other polite people would have said thanks. Thank you.



Me too, and I did a few times whilst coming home along the TPT today. 
Even stopped for a quick chat with a couple of dog walkers whose 2 dogs walked straight in front of the bike and then refused to move


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## yello (6 Nov 2011)

I think generally in life that if you _expect_ thanks then you ought factor in also that you might be disappointed.

I do recall from my own canal walks (not even with a dog) that, generally speaking, cyclists rarely said thank you to me for moving aside. Joggers however invariably did. Just one of those things. I'd not loose sleep over it.


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## Hip Priest (6 Nov 2011)

"Get in the f-ing cycle lane!"


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## Norm (6 Nov 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> Do you thank all the car drivers you meet for not killing you?


 Plenty of them, yes. I'll always wave thanks at someone not pulling out in front of me, at someone waiting rather than overtaking before / on a bend or someone moving across so I can filter past them. 

Conversely, the pratt who overtook this morning then stopped right in front of me to turn left must have crapped himself because I hammered on his window so hard. He didn't even realise that I had pulled alongside his door until I slapped the glass, so wrapped up in his own little world was he.

Dogs and kids always get priority. I nearly always stop for a chat, unless it's particularly busy. 10 seconds passing pleasantries costs little, hopefully makes the other person's day a little brighter and gives me a chance to take a breath. 

Last month, a quick chat with a couple walking their dog started a 15 minute conversation with the others as they live not far from me and were incredulous that I was cycling 65 miles back from Wiltshire in one day. When I first said where I was heading, they asked where I would be stopping for the night.  

I came up behind a couple of kids on horses last weekend when I was showing a friend some of the local bridle paths and off road jaunts. I had previously said to my friend that you should always try to speak to riders and their horses when approaching from behind, because of the possibility of spooking them. I called out to the riders that we were coming through. The response from two girls was most excellent, the lead rider making exactly the same point that I had about letting the horses know that we were there. It made for a pleasant encounter, of the sort that I wonder whether LYB would ever recognise.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

LYB + BFB! wind ya neck in will ya! I never threatened anyone and didnt raise my voice to anyone. Is this not a forum where i can raise a point? an observation that i made? My dog was of the lead as previously stated as it is better exercise for him and within plenty of time before the cyclist got to us i called him to heel, and as he is such a well behaved dog does as he is told. I, LYB + BFB was brought up to respect others and treat them as i would like to be treated. would you both not feel better if someone just once in a while say thankyou to you. Does it not just give you that nice warm feeling inside or is your heart as cold as your manner! I pick up the dog crap not just so it dosnt get into your tyre tread but because i am responsible. Some of the cyclists and runners said thanks and i have more respect for them than those that dont. I was just looking at a walkers point of view of cyclists and runners. If ive upset people on here because i have a point of view I'm sorry but hey i havnt lost a cure for cancer and i wont lose sleep over it. So LYB and BFB youll get over it when the ice on your hearts has melted a little wich just may take some time.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> "Get in the f-ing cycle lane!"



Not that bastard! He's the one who sits behind me when I'm cycling two abreast whilst preparing a roast dinner, tooting his horn and screaming "wood woof wooooooooof!"


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## Hip Priest (6 Nov 2011)

potsy said:


> Even stopped for a quick chat with a couple of dog walkers whose 2 dogs walked straight in front of the bike and then refused to move



That happens to me now and again on the commute. A dog owner will register my presence too late to bring Fido back under control. I just slow right down, and respond to their apology with a happy 'no worries'. 

What's the point in upsetting someone over nothing?

Mind, the shared path I use on my commute is over the Town Moor in Newcastle, where the cows have priority.


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## Arrowfoot (6 Nov 2011)

Others are also stating their views. 

I walk my dog more than I cycle. I call the dog to heel to avoid an incident. Dogs might not react to the cyclist but might chase something else despite mine being well trained and still might trigger an incident. I get the occasional thanks but most do not want to lose their momentum. I understand that.

My first prioty is to avoid an incident and put someone at risk. In essence its self-preservation. I am sure common sense suggest it is the same with you.

This I am sure is very different from other things that are not called for but is done out of the goodness of one's heart such as opening a door or giving way to someone.






SurlyNomad said:


> LYB + BFB! wind ya neck in will ya! I never threatened anyone and didnt raise my voice to anyone. Is this not a forum where i can raise a point? an observation that i made? My dog was of the lead as previously stated as it is better exercise for him and within plenty of time before the cyclist got to us i called him to heel, and as he is such a well behaved dog does as he is told. I, LYB + BFB was brought up to respect others and treat them as i would like to be treated. would you both not feel better if someone just once in a while say thankyou to you. Does it not just give you that nice warm feeling inside or is your heart as cold as your manner! I pick up the dog crap not just so it dosnt get into your tyre tread but because i am responsible. Some of the cyclists and runners said thanks and i have more respect for them than those that dont. I was just looking at a walkers point of view of cyclists and runners. If ive upset people on here because i have a point of view I'm sorry but hey i havnt lost a cure for cancer and i wont lose sleep over it. So LYB and BFB youll get over it when the ice on your hearts has melted a little wich just may take some time.


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## HLaB (6 Nov 2011)

It'd be nice if everybody you passed gave you a cheerie hello, but they don't, that's life, get over it


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> *If you're going to be arsey, at least learn where the shift key is, old boy.*
> 
> I must say, while there is a point that people don't deserve thanks for doing what they ought to (I actually try not to thank drivers who stop for zebras, because they should anyway, but often I raise a hand to wave thanks involuntarily), any parent knows that thanking children for doing what they are asked reinforces good behaviour. Also, it costs nothing - it's extremely rare that one is concentrating so hard that one can't spare the breath and brain power for a quick "Cheers!".
> 
> Also, pedestrians, anywhere, have priority. It might be annoying, but it's the bottom of a very important pyramid, which denies the idea that might is right, and I for one am thankful for it.



a. i'm not being arsy just putting my point of view across and b. i don't get what you mean by bolded bit.


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> Plenty of them, yes. I'll always wave thanks at someone not pulling out in front of me, at someone waiting rather than overtaking before / on a bend or someone moving across so I can filter past them.
> 
> Conversely, the pratt who overtook this morning then stopped right in front of me to turn left must have crapped himself because I hammered on his window so hard. He didn't even realise that I had pulled alongside his door until I slapped the glass, so wrapped up in his own little world was he.
> 
> ...



Now there is one of those rare breed of people we rarely see these days,a genuine,friendly considerate,polite person that leaves just a slight impression on those he meets in every day life. Hats off to you Norm if only more people were the same


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> LYB + BFB! wind ya neck in will ya! I never threatened anyone and didnt raise my voice to anyone. Is this not a forum where i can raise a point? an observation that i made? My dog was of the lead as previously stated as it is better exercise for him and within plenty of time before the cyclist got to us i called him to heel, and as he is such a well behaved dog does as he is told. I, LYB + BFB was brought up to respect others and treat them as i would like to be treated. would you both not feel better if someone just once in a while say thankyou to you. Does it not just give you that nice warm feeling inside or is your heart as cold as your manner! I pick up the dog crap not just so it dosnt get into your tyre tread but because i am responsible. Some of the cyclists and runners said thanks and i have more respect for them than those that dont. I was just looking at a walkers point of view of cyclists and runners. If ive upset people on here because i have a point of view I'm sorry but hey i havnt lost a cure for cancer and i wont lose sleep over it. So LYB and BFB youll get over it when the ice on your hearts has melted a little wich just may take some time.




ironic post there. i've never said (nor anyone else) that you threatened anyone, i said you threatened to let your dog run loose and see what happens.

telling me to wind my neck in, sums you up perfectly. i'm not disagreeing with letting your dog loose or exercising it, i'm disagreeing with you ranting about arsy cyclists (your view not mine) not thanking you or kissing your arse for keeping an animal under control.

The fore mentioned cyclist may have been shitting themselves and keeping a close eye on the unleashed dog.


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## HLaB (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> The fore mentioned cyclist may have been shitting themselves and keeping a close eye on the unleashed dog.



I generally say thanks/ good morning to a dog owner but sometimes if a dog doesn't look under control, I'm too busy concentrating on that anticipating its movement; yes I am sh1tting my self


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## Arch (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> a. i'm not being arsy just putting my point of view across and b. i don't get what you mean by bolded bit.



I think your tone is very arsey, and I think the reaction of a lot of others suggests that they felt the same. You could equally have made your point less agressively.

The shift key is the one that lets you make capital letters.


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## ColinJ (6 Nov 2011)

Slightly OT, but ...

I was out for a walk yesterday with a friend who has been very nervous of dogs since being bitten by a German Shepherd dog when she was a child. 

A Border Collie suddenly came running down the footpath towards us way ahead of its owners. My friend hid behind me and I could see that the dog was in an excitable state so I tried to calm it down by talking to it. 

It did the Collie thing of darting round the side of us as if controlling a flock of sheep. I could tell that the dog wanted to nip my leg - every time I started to walk away, it lunged towards my calf muscle until I turned and pointed at it and said "No!" in a very stern voice.

The owners came into view and one cheerfully said to me "It's okay, she's only having fun - she doesn't bite!" Yeah right - I know how Collies work and I could see that this one wanted to be in charge and was prepared to enforce it with a quick bite!

I once had a mad Dalmation run out in front of me when I was cycling in heavy traffic. The owner once again was shouting not to worry - it didn't bite! I shouted back that I wasn't frightened of being bitten, I was more concerned about me or the dog ending up under the wheels of a car. (I actually used rather stronger language than that. As I mentioned in my earlier post - I thank people for doing the right thing, but if they don't, I'll soon let them know what I think of their stupidity!)


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## Cycletrax (6 Nov 2011)

I use the Hull to Hornsea (shared) rail track quite a lot ,(I like a local chip shop in Hornsea) and always say "thanksyou,cheers" or the thumbs up to everyone I pass and always a "good morning/afternoon" or a nod to any other user coming the other way which on a summer day can be quite a lot. 

When a dog walker calls his dog two things have happened, firstly I know he has acknowledged that i will be soon passing him and takes control of his dog, and secondly he has subconciously conveyed to me that its safe to pass him and no drama is going to unfold. I appreiciate his act and say "thankyou" it makes me and the dog owner feel good. 

On the other hand if an owner does not call his dog, and I feel there could be an incident I slow right down and ask the owner if its "OK to pass" in cheery voice this usually results in a "I,m sorry" and they call the dog Happy days, and I always enjoy my fish dinner.


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## soulful dog (6 Nov 2011)

The OP was a bit OTT, but jeez what is it with people who ride brompton's?!


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## Crackle (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> As the title says! I took the dog for a walk today along the leeds/liverpool canal. My dog is a well behaved staffie. When a runner or cyclist came along a called him to heel and straight away he comes and stands by me and waits until i tell him its ok to move. The amout of ignorant arrogant bastards that dont say thanks,cheers mate kiss my arse or anything is unreal! I'd say at least 8 out of ten. I can understand the fury dog walkers get with cyclists that just barge there way past as if its their god given right to travelling there unrestricted. It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.




To answer as both a dog walker and a cyclist, most cyclists don't smile or say anything, maybe because they are concentrating, you tend to look ahead on a bike. I imagine the cyclists who slow down and move over like to get a thank you too but I find I'm hypnotically watching them to make sure they don't run into me or the dog. They probably think the same thing, miserable ba$tard.


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## Arch (6 Nov 2011)

Cycletrax said:


> and they call the dog Happy days, and I always enjoy my fish dinner.



That's quite an unusual name for a dog, Happy days....


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## potsy (6 Nov 2011)

soulful dog said:


> The OP was a bit OTT, but jeez what is it with people who ride brompton's?!



Jealous of those of us with 'real' bikes


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

potsy said:


> Jealous of those of us with 'real' bikes



You have'nt got a real bike, none of yours are steel!


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## Cycletrax (6 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> That's quite an unusual name for a dog, Happy days....



Haha very good I see what you did there.. Thankyou 

PS I know your names not really thankyou BTW...


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## Norm (6 Nov 2011)

Chris-H said:


> Now there is one of those rare breed of people we rarely see these days,a genuine,friendly considerate,polite person that leaves just a slight impression on those he meets in every day life. Hats off to you Norm if only more people were the same


  Thanks, but not that rare (or I wouldn't have anyone to chat with. 

I just think, given the alternatives, it's better to smile and chat and possibly leave someone a little happier and hopefully more well-disposed towards cyclists. Unless they cut in front of me, then I'll happily make them crap themselves.


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## Crackle (6 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> That's quite an unusual name for a dog, Happy days....



Well the other two are called Sunday and Monday.


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## Poacher (6 Nov 2011)

> You have'nt got a real bike, none of yours are steel!


Not only is my brommy steel, so are _all_ my other bikes!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Arch said:


> *I think your tone is very arsey*, and I think the reaction of a lot of others suggests that they felt the same. You could equally have made your point less *agressively*.
> 
> The shift key is the one that lets you make capital letters.



don't care and you should learn to spell before you criticize others....HHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> don't care and you should learn to spell before you *criticize* others....HHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!




Criticise, surely?


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## Bicycle (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> don't care and you should learn to spell before you criticize others....HHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!




'Criticise', I think, unless you are a colonial.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

funny that, both are in the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY.....but agressively is not....


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## david k (6 Nov 2011)

Or rely upon an American spellchecker


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

see post above and signature below.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Great. Now I have Alexander O'Neal stuck in my head!


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## 400bhp (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> the op is arrogant and quite vexatious when he doesn't get, what he perceives to be his god given right, i.e he can't enjoy a walk down HIS canal towpath with his dog out of control (and i'm guessing shitting where it feels like) without pesky cyclists ruining his god given rights.




FFS

Get a grip man.


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## 400bhp (6 Nov 2011)

Crackle said:


> To answer as both a dog walker and a cyclist, most cyclists don't smile or say anything, maybe because they are concentrating, you tend to look ahead on a bike.



I'd say you are going too fast for the conditions if that level of concentration is required on a shared use path.


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## Baggy (6 Nov 2011)

ColinJ said:


> A Border Collie suddenly came running down the footpath towards us way ahead of its owners. My friend hid behind me and I could see that the dog was in an excitable state so I tried to calm it down by talking to it.
> 
> It did the Collie thing of darting round the side of us as if controlling a flock of sheep. I could tell that the dog wanted to nip my leg - every time I started to walk away, it lunged towards my calf muscle until I turned and pointed at it and said "No!" in a very stern voice.


Had a similar experienc the other night, except it was pitch black, two collies and I was on the bike. Saw what looked like 4 tiny red lights heading towards me and realised they were the eyes of two dogs were belting towards me. They were going so fast that they went straight past, skidding all over the place, then ran back up and started jumping up and barking, one on either side. I unclipped, but didn't stop and they started to look as if they were going to nip, at which point I started shouting at them to get down. Their owner was about 100 yards further on, he said nothing, did nothing, just sauntered past staring ahead, at which point they ran after him.
I was pretty annoyed that he'd made no attempt at all to control them when he'd have been able to see a bike coming for some distance (it's a straight unlit path). And I always thank people who do attempt to control their dogs,as well as slowing down for other users...


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

400bhp said:


> FFS
> 
> Get a grip man.



eh?


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## Speicher (6 Nov 2011)

Baggy said:


> Had a similar experienc the other night, except it was pitch black, two collies and I was on the bike.



Surely it is "two collies and I were on the bike".


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## John the Monkey (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> ... as if its their god given right to travelling there unrestricted.



It's almost certainly their right not to be knocked off by an uncontrolled animal.

I'd have thanked you, fwiw (manners maketh man, and so on), but when I'm walking my dog, I see controlling him around runners, horses, cyclists &c as a duty, rather than a favour I graciously bestow on those I choose.


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

Speicher said:


> Surely it is "two collies and I were on the bike".




Oh, I presumed it was some type of circus act.


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## Speicher (6 Nov 2011)

montyboy said:


> Oh, I presumed it was some type of circus act.



Possibly


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## doog (6 Nov 2011)

dogs and Bromptons




and a sunday 6 pager to boot.

The thought of these Brompton nutters scattering dogs and owners and screaming abuse on their little fold up bikes is just one great comedy scenario.

Glad to see LYB back on form, thought he had lost his touch of late


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## Baggy (6 Nov 2011)

montyboy said:


> Oh, I presumed it was some type of circus act.


 
That would be tutu collies.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I? 
I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
> I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I?
> I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!




That is just rude.

Weakness my arse.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!

OOOOOOOOH! I think that the cycling community can get a bad enough name for itself without adding fuel to the fire and having other people i.e peds and car drivers having a go at us. wouldnt you rather hear a ped or car driver say i met a really nice chap on a bike the other day rather than the usual tosh that we are familliar with about RLJ or kerb hopping or this instance a cheers mate or thankyou.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

montyboy said:


> That is just rude.
> 
> Weakness my arse.



Please understand that my reply here is actually to demonstrate the thousand yard stare which I'm giving you, it most certainly is not acknowledging the fact that you have acknowledged me, I have no interest in your existance, it's a little tricky to show that on a forum however but just accept that your comment has been ignored.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
> I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I?
> I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!



Sad. And also not true.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Please understand that my reply here is actually to demonstrate the thousand yard stare which I'm giving you, it most certainly is not acknowledging the fact that you have acknowledged me, I have no interest in your existance, it's a little tricky to show that on a forum however but just accept that your comment has been ignored.



Oh the irony. You can't give a thousand yard stare to something you have ignored. If you had ignored it, you wouldn't react at all.


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Please understand that my reply here is actually to demonstrate the thousand yard stare which I'm giving you, it most certainly is not acknowledging the fact that you have acknowledged me, I have no interest in your existance, it's a little tricky to show that on a forum however but just accept that your comment has been ignored.




How very sad for you.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

lol!@ Mugshot! Arrogant as well as Ignorant.


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
> I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I?
> I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!


Arrogant twat !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
> I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I?
> I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!



i have never said that manners are not needed and i am old fashioned and use them as often as i can, in the situation as mentioned by the op i would have thanked him. neither did i say he shouldn't have been exercising his dog off the lead, what i did and do disagree with, is people trying to force their values onto others and if others don't as they are bid, then 'you'll get what you deserve' attitude (i'll let my dog loose and see what happens).

what i was trying to get across, was that coming onto a cycle forum and slating people for not giving him the gratitude he felt he deserved, (in fact he was so incensed that he considered letting his dog be a risk to others), was arrogant. 

however, apparently, whilst the op is allowed to spout and vent (and make idle threats), others are not by the forum police. the same forum police then turn to insulting remarks and indeed try to make out that, their opinion on my opinion is in fact the correct opinion and the proper way to behave.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> wouldnt you rather hear a ped or car driver say i met a really nice chap on a bike the other day rather than the usual tosh that we are familliar with about RLJ or kerb hopping or this instance a cheers mate or thankyou.



I couldn't give a monkeys what other road users think of me, I have absolutely as much right to be there as they do, should I choose to RLJ or kerb hop that is entirely at my discretion and I shall face the consequences that the law sees fit, are you suggesting that if I don't I should be expecting to be thanked by peds and car drivers for doing the minimum expected?
If you had offered to run in front of my bike to provide a drafting effect for me then I may have, possibly, forced a nod in your direction, but for moving your mutt, come on mate, you'll be expecting me to offer you a drink from my bottle next!


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## roadrash (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> When I'm given change in a shop having made a purchase, I check it, turn on my heel and walk out of the store. Receiving my change is the minimum that I should expect, no gratitude is needed. I'm the same when somebody pays the balance for goods purchased from myself, the minimum I expect is to be paid the money which they owe me, why should I thank them?
> I'm exactly the same when I'm in my car and somebody allows me to make progress at a pinch point where there is an obstruction on their side of the carriageway, I don't feel it necessary to acknowledge them, why should I?
> I'm with the brothers Brompton, manners are overrated, they're a sign of weakness and the world will be a better place when we're finally rid of them. We're getting there!




i am usually well mannered and polite , i am by no means weak


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

it is amusing that you're all so wound up, that you think mugshot is serious.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I couldn't give a monkeys what other road users think of me, I have absolutely as much right to be there as they do, should I choose to RLJ or kerb hop that is entirely at my discretion and I shall face the consequences that the law sees fit, are you suggesting that if I don't I should be expecting to be thanked by peds and car drivers for doing the minimum expected?
> If you had offered to run in front of my bike to provide a drafting effect for me then I may have, possibly, forced a nod in your direction, but for moving your mutt, come on mate, you'll be expecting me to offer you a drink from my bottle next!



I don't think anyone's suggesting that we have any lesser right to be on the road than anyone else.

It's more along the lines of why live life at the minimum level? Mediocrity is depressing.

Having seen many of Mughot's very personable posts elsewhere (including his very helpful posts re that bike hire website) I think his posts here are not entirely true.


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> it is amusing that you're all so wound up, that you think mugshot is serious.




we do have to take folks at face value.


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> I don't think anyone's suggesting that we have any lesser right to be on the road than anyone else.
> 
> It's more along the lines of why live life at the minimum level? Mediocrity is is depressing.




I'm begining to get a crush on you!


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## potsy (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> it is amusing that you're all so wound up, that you think mugshot is serious.




mugshot has just gone to the top of my 'one to follow' list


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant. 

@BFB! this is what i posted. I didnt threaten i said it ALMOST made me not want to call him to heel, but as i am a resposible dog owner i did and within plenty of time. I made an observation about how many times people did and did not say thanks and it wasnt just cyclists it was runners too! i didnt say it was my god given right to be thanked, just it would have been nice. he wasnt being intimidating or a nusance just plodding along as he does minding his own business. You miss the point.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

Chris-H said:


> Arrogant twat !!!!!!!!!!!



Whhoooossshhh!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

hence the word 'considered' in my posts. and i don't miss the point, you just don't see the arrogance of your op. or perhaps how your op reads.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

I like Chris -H! Hes my hero! What a way with words.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> however, apparently, whilst the op is allowed to spout and vent (and make idle threats), others are not by the forum police. the same forum police then turn to insulting remarks and indeed try to make out that, their opinion on my opinion is in fact the correct opinion and the proper way to behave.






bromptonfb said:


> it is amusing that you're all so wound up, that you think mugshot is serious.






montyboy said:


> we do have to take folks at face value.



Well I guess you do, I shall remember a few of the more choice remarks of some and the sheer stupidity of others. It's ironic, don't you think, that the two people that I was having a ludicrously unsubtle dig at were the only ones that were polite. 
In a debate about manners? How delicious!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

@surlynomad: does the top of your head feel breezy?


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.
> 
> @BFB! this is what i posted. I didnt threaten i said it ALMOST made me not want to call him to heel, but as i am a resposible dog owner i did and within plenty of time. I made an observation about how many times people did and did not say thanks and it wasnt just cyclists it was runners too! i didnt say it was my god given right to be thanked, just it would have been nice. he wasnt being intimidating or a nusance just plodding along as he does minding his own business. You miss the point.




It would have been nice to be thanked, and if you aren't, then they are " ignorant arrogant bastards". Is that the point you were trying to make or the one you are now trying to brush over?


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

it does actually cos im as bald as a badgers arse.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> it does actually cos im as bald as a badgers arse.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

@ LYB! Im not brushing over anything I stand by what i posted. They were ignorant arrogant bastards! just a polite cheers would have been nice! IT WAS AN OBSERVATION.


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## SurlyNomad (6 Nov 2011)

Anyways, its bedtime. My lass said so! its been great having this discussion with you all and ive made some friends i think. Lets close this one now.


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> Anyways, its bedtime. My lass said so! its been great having this discussion with you all and ive made some friends i think. Lets close this one now.


+1


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Chris-H said:


> Arrogant twat !!!!!!!!!!!



Whilst I don't agree with everything Mugshot posted, that's the rudest thing on the whole thread!

I thought the point we were trying to make re manners was that we should be mannerly to make people happy, not throw horrible names at them because they have a differing opinion.

Manners aren't about "oh, look at me and my manners. I'm so much better than you!" in fact, that's not manners. That's rudeness with a fancy hat on.


----------



## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Whilst I don't agree with everything he posted, that's the rudest thing on the whole thread!
> 
> I thought the point we were trying to make re manners was that we should be mannerly to make people happy, not throw horrible names at them because they have a differing opinion.
> 
> Manners aren't about "oh, look at me and my manners. I'm so much better than you!" in fact, that's not manners. That's rudeness with a fancy hat on.


I beg to differ,the post i commented on deserved nothing better in my eyes and if that is genuinely how he feels then i feel my comment justified.I'm sorry you "dissaprove" at my comment and i apologise if it caused any distress.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

Chris-H said:


> if that is genuinely how he feels then i feel my comment justified.



What if it isn't, where does that leave your comment then?


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> What if it isn't, where does that leave your comment then?


It would leave me owing you a gracious apology,i'm never too proud to admit i'm wrong and offer said apology but read back through your post and i'm sure you'll see it really does come across as arrogant.


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## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> What if it isn't, where does that leave your comment then?




Posted in good faith as you were not being truthfull.


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

Chris-H said:


> +1
> Manners cost nothing and if everyone was as friendly as those in agreement with the op then the world would be a happier place,unfortunately though there will always be those who feel they owe no-one anything,not even courtesy.



I'll just leave this here then.


----------



## montyboy (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I'll just leave this here then.




you are very naughty


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

montyboy said:


> you are very naughty



Why thank you 


Awwww, dammit, now I've gone and wrecked my carefully constructed impolite persona


----------



## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Puts the kettle on


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## Chris-H (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I'll just leave this here then.


Fair play to you but i think the original topic of this thread is courteous manners.If someone makes a post to deliberately antagonise people then that is a different matter involving different opinions. 
Anyway i really am done here now,if you want to continue then good luck to you.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Why thank you
> 
> 
> Awwww, dammit, now I've gone and wrecked my carefully constructed impolite persona



You ruined it by being lovely in all your other posts on other threads!


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## Mugshot (6 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> You ruined it by being lovely in all your other posts on other threads!



I shall endeavour to be Mr Nasty at all times from now on, I have to say it is far more entertaining and people have far more interesting reactions than with the softly softly approach, though that really wasn't what I was expecting when I posted, well certainly not from the people I got it from.


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I shall endeavour to be Mr Nasty at all times from now on, I have to say it is far more entertaining and people have far more interesting reactions than with the softly softly approach, though that really wasn't what I was expecting when I posted, well certainly not from the people I got it from.



Oh I was impressed by their stoicism. And for everything they have said re thanking / not thanking people, they've been very polite to me.


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## Arrowfoot (7 Nov 2011)

I think you are digging a deeper hole with the comment below. Do cyclists deliberately run over dogs? Why even contemplate putting the dog in harm's way for not receiving the odd thanks. 



SurlyNomad said:


> It almost made me want to not call the dog to see what would happen, and if they hit him they would have ended in the canal bike and all! Yes i am a cyclist,commuter. It was just an observation on my part and needed a rant.


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## Little yellow Brompton (7 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> @ LYB! Im not brushing over anything I stand by what i posted. They were ignorant arrogant bastards! just a polite cheers would have been nice! IT WAS AN OBSERVATION.




Did you thank every cyclist or jogger that didn't barge into you, or are you an "ignorant arrogant bastard"?


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Nov 2011)

a_spanner_short said:


> OK, I'm a cyclist and dog owner but as far as I'm concerned a canal towpath is a public place and Staffies do look a little intimidating, don't they?
> 
> Both my dog and my son who has a phobia of animals are likely to feel intimidated by a Staffie off its lead and it's no fun trying to control my own dog and my son who has ran off in fear when confronted by a dog off a leash, sometimes into the road with potentially fatal results.
> 
> ...



The Staffie was off the lead, but he called him/her to heel, which the doggie then did.


----------



## John the Monkey (7 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> ...wouldnt you rather hear a ped or car driver say i met a really nice chap on a bike the other day rather than the usual tosh that we are familliar with about RLJ or kerb hopping or this instance a cheers mate or thankyou.



I had a car driver threaten to kick the sh*t out of me once because I said "Thank you" to him (which he incorrectly lip read as "f*ck you") does that count?


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## Ravelin (7 Nov 2011)

OK I'll admit to having given up reading after page 4! Slow weekend on the forums, weather too crap to get out (lovely up here in NE Scotland)?

I'm a dog walker, a hill walker, a cyclist and do a bit of running too. When I'm out with the dog (Black Lab) she's off the lead 90% of the time as she's generally well behaved and it's better exercise/more fun for her. Although we live in a fairly rural setting a lot of the tracks, paths etc we use are also well used by others too. If I'm out with the dog I'll bring her under control around cyclists, joggers, walkers, families (especially with young kids), other dogs etc. It doesn't ruin the dogs walk, its courteous and it's safer for all involved. It's nice to be thanked, but I don't expect it.

When I'm out with the bike, jogging or even just walking and someone brings their dog under control to let me past then I *always* thank them. Just the same as I do if someone *without a dog* moves to the side to let me past because I'm moving faster. If I'm on the bike I'll slow down to almost walking speed when passing too, and stop if I need to. It's not uncommon for me to stop to say 'hi' to a dog, especially young ones, to show that the strange beast on two wheels isn't something to be chased or barked at.

Maybe I'm lucky in where I live but if I want to get out on the bike and avoid people/dogs I've got plenty of choice of places to go, even if it may then involve either a longer ride or sticking the bike on the car for a bit.

It cost us nothing to be courteous and helps stave off the "bloody cyclists", "irresponsible dog owners", "inconsiderate joggers" comments that seem to be prevalent across forums and comments sections everywhere.


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## Norm (7 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> I had a car driver threaten to kick the sh*t out of me once because I said "Thank you" to him (which he incorrectly lip read as "f*ck you") does that count?


 I've had the same response from a group of walkers on the Thames path. One of them passed comment and I stopped to ask why, and we soon realised the misunderstanding. I now just say thanks or cheers.


Ravelin said:


> It cost us nothing to be courteous and helps stave off the "bloody cyclists", "irresponsible dog owners", "inconsiderate joggers" comments that seem to be prevalent across forums and comments sections everywhere.


 See, I knew it wasn't just me.


----------



## Crackle (7 Nov 2011)

Ravelin said:


> OK I'll admit to having given up reading after page 4! Slow weekend on the forums, weather too crap to get out (lovely up here in NE Scotland)?
> 
> I'm a dog walker, a hill walker, a cyclist and do a bit of running too. When I'm out with the dog (Black Lab) she's off the lead 90% of the time as she's generally well behaved and it's better exercise/more fun for her. Although we live in a fairly rural setting a lot of the tracks, paths etc we use are also well used by others too. If I'm out with the dog I'll bring her under control around cyclists, joggers, walkers, families (especially with young kids), other dogs etc. It doesn't ruin the dogs walk, its courteous and it's safer for all involved. It's nice to be thanked, but I don't expect it.
> 
> ...



That's pretty much me, even down to the dog and colour. In fact I've just dropped the paintbrush and am just about to take him out for a jog on the local leisure path.

I refer you lot to my thread in Cafe about arguments whilst I'm gone.


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## ColinJ (7 Nov 2011)

[Thank you/f**k you]



Norm said:


> I've had the same response from a group of walkers on the Thames path. One of them passed comment and I stopped to ask why, and we soon realised the misunderstanding. I now just say thanks or cheers.
> See, I knew it wasn't just me.


I realised that a while back, so now I usually just say 'thanks', 'ta' or 'cheers' too!


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## John the Monkey (7 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> I've had the same response from a group of walkers on the Thames path. One of them passed comment and I stopped to ask why, and we soon realised the misunderstanding. I now just say thanks or cheers.



This bloke refused to believe me, and it was only when another car stopped to see what was going on that he gave up, not before much swearing and exaggerated winding up of punches.


I nod, or wave now, if I do anything at all.

I've yet to have a problem with walkers, they're a cheery bunch in South Cheshire, generally.


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## Cubist (7 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I'll just leave this here then.



Top effort. Some of saw what you were doing. 
Your best observation is that the anti-manners-for-the-sake-of-it brigade were the only ones that liked the way you were posting. 




















Do you have a folder?


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Nov 2011)

a_spanner_short said:


> Must be my age.



Christ - I would want to be on a leash too if that nut job is on the loose!


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## david k (7 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> This bloke refused to believe me, and it was only when another car stopped to see what was going on that he gave up, not before much swearing and exaggerated winding up of punches.
> 
> 
> I nod, or wave now, if I do anything at all.
> ...



its the level of aggression that gets me, like my post on current afairs about 'mad man' the response is often dispropotionate. we should all be a little more tolerant, who wants all the stress? certainly not me. i used to take everyone on, i was in more fights than mike tyson, now i just walk away, its not the incident but the stress it causes that gets me


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## Cubist (7 Nov 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Christ - I would want to be on a leash too if that nut job is on the loose!



Two sides to every story I'm afraid.


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## ColinJ (7 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> Two sides to every story I'm afraid.


Too true! For example ... 

A friend was out walking with his girlfriend and her dog. They came to a gate with a large sign on it saying "Lambing season - all dogs must be kept on a lead" He went to put the dog on its lead but his girlfriend said that it wasn't necessary, he was a good dog, blah blah blah, and opened the gate!

The dog started barking and ran straight towards some pregnant ewes. The next minute, a red-faced farmer carrying a shotgun appeared and screamed that he was going to shoot the dog. The girlfriend started crying and my pal risked his life to run after the dog and get it under control while the farmer was loading the shotgun. They dragged the dog away with the farmer threatening to kill it on sight if it happened again.


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## Norm (7 Nov 2011)

I don't see a second side to that one, Colin


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## david k (7 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> I don't see a second side to that one, Colin




but we dont have the lambs view point norm

as you say it is therefore all one sided


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## Mugshot (7 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> Do you have a folder?



I have many, but I don't think that's quite what you mean, I'm sorry Cubist you're going to have to explain it for me.


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## Cubist (7 Nov 2011)

Both the posters you aimed your irony at have "brompton" in their monikers.


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## Mugshot (7 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> Both the posters you aimed your irony at have "brompton" in their monikers.



Oh blimey Charlie I got completely the wrong end of the stick there, I thought you were talking about folders you put papers into, think I forgot I was on a cycling forum . No Cubist I don't have a folder, just proper bikes 
Actually I did have a folding bike when I was about 11 or 12 and was mercilessly mocked for having a "girls" bike, I was called every version of homosexual you can think of whenever I rode it, eventually I managed to persuade my dad to have a piece of scaffolding tube welding onto it as a cross bar and the mocking stopped immediately


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## ColinJ (7 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> I don't see a second side to that one, Colin


Well, no, but I could imagine the girlfriend moaning to the local paper if her dog had been 'murdered' by the farmer! I'm siding with him.

(My mate said that he was totally exasperated with her when she let the unleashed dog through the gate after reading the warning notice!)


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## Cubist (7 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Oh blimey Charlie I got completely the wrong end of the stick there, I thought you were talking about folders you put papers into, think I forgot I was on a cycling forum . No Cubist I don't have a folder, just proper bikes
> Actually I did have a folding bike when I was about 11 or 12 and was mercilessly mocked for having a "girls" bike, I was called every version of homosexual you can think of whenever I rode it, eventually I managed to persuade my dad to have a piece of scaffolding tube welding onto it as a cross bar and the mocking stopped immediately


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## Glow worm (7 Nov 2011)

Is it Germany where it's illegal to allow your mutt to be off its lead in any public place? I'd quite like to see that in the UK. Around here, it's amazing how many folks just let their dogs run all over the fields in spring, not worrying/ caring about any ground nesting birds for example. 

That said, I always thank the owners who hold on to their dogs as I go by and make sure I slow right down. It costs nowt to be nice to folks.


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## Cubist (7 Nov 2011)

Glow worm said:


> Is it Germany where it's illegal to allow your mutt to be off its lead in any public place? I'd quite like to see that in the UK. Around here, it's amazing how many folks just let their dogs run all over the fields in spring, not worrying/ caring about any ground nesting birds for example.
> 
> That said, I always thank the owners who hold on to their dogs as I go by and make sure I slow right down. It costs nowt to be nice to folks.



So what you are suggesting is that no dog should ever be off the lead anywhere in public at all? I guess you don't own a dog do you?


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## Bicycle (7 Nov 2011)

I suspect that this thread will soon be the refuge of rattling followers of "Doubling up on the Road"...

... who were already suffering a degree of withdrawal from Helmet Threads.

I think it's all just a matter of courtesy and consideration of the needs of others.

If politeness & courtesy were a car, they would be a 1993 XM estate, with the 2.1-litre 3-valve PSA diesel.

Probably in a nice dark green metallic and with a dog guardrail fixed behind the rear seats.


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## SurlyNomad (7 Nov 2011)

@ LYB, No fella i didn't, as i got out of their way as i am considerate, not like the ignorant arrogant bastards that passed by without saying cheers! i even said hello to a few without any response! Maybe they didnt like me being on THEIR Towpath?


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## Mugshot (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> If politeness & courtesy were a car, they would be a 1993 XM estate, with the 2.1-litre 3-valve PSA diesel.
> 
> Probably in a nice dark green metallic and with a dog guardrail fixed behind the rear seats.



I know next to nothing about cars and as a consequence have no idea what you're on about, but I do enjoy your descriptions, I like to picture you in a big leather chair with a large brandy, like the fella from The Fast Show.


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## SurlyNomad (7 Nov 2011)

@BFB, you make it sound my dog was running around causing all sorts of mayhem! He was under complete control at all times. True he wasnt on the lead all the time but under complete control. Its how you bring them up. I am a responsible dog owner and a cyclist, so i was looking at the situation from both sides. If someone moves out of my way with an animal i thank them and expect the same courtesy or at least a smile or a nod of thanks. just some people are downright misserable.


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## freecyclist (7 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> @BFB, you make it sound my dog was running around causing all sorts of mayhem! He was under complete control at all times. True he wasnt on the lead all the time but under complete control. Its how you bring them up. I am a responsible dog owner and a cyclist, so i was looking at the situation from both sides. If someone moves out of my way with an animal i thank them and expect the same courtesy or at least a smile or a nod of thanks. just some people are downright misserable.



Whos BFB ?


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## ColinJ (7 Nov 2011)

freecyclist said:


> Whos BFB ?


*B*rompton*FB*!


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## SurlyNomad (7 Nov 2011)

yeah thats him! couldnt be arsed to type his whole name


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I suspect that this thread will soon be the refuge of rattling followers of "Doubling up on the Road"...
> 
> ... who were already suffering a degree of withdrawal from Helmet Threads.
> 
> ...



I see it as a 1972 Morris Traveller - horribly unfashionable but in full, working order and makes people smile when it goes past.


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## Lisa21 (7 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> He was under complete control at all times. True he wasnt on the lead all the time but under complete control. Its how you bring them up. I am a responsible dog owner and a cyclist, so i was looking at the situation from both sides. If someone moves out of my way with an animal i thank them and expect the same courtesy or at least a smile or a nod of thanks. just some people are downright misserable.



This says it all. What more can you want..a responsible person, an under-control dog, and someone with manners. 

Its just a shame that the majority of people are not the same.

Manners and common courtesy cost absolutely nothing.


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## SurlyNomad (7 Nov 2011)

@Lisa21, youve just gone to the top of my christmas card list! lol


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## 400bhp (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I suspect that this thread will soon be the refuge of rattling followers of "Doubling up on the Road"...
> 
> ... who were already suffering a degree of withdrawal from Helmet Threads.
> 
> ...


----------



## ColinJ (7 Nov 2011)

Lisa21 said:


> Manners and common courtesy cost absolutely nothing.


You are absolutely correct Lisa, and I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you for your fine contribution to this thread!


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## Norm (7 Nov 2011)

ColinJ said:


> (My mate said that he was totally exasperated with her when she let the unleashed dog through the gate after reading the warning notice!)


 Having been in the position of the farmer in your tale, it is probable that he would have been more than totally exasperated. 

When you devote your life to the welfare of animals, you don't want to be forced into making the decision between shooting someone else's animal and allowing it to continue to damage your own animals and profits. It's a dreadful place to be and it feels entirely unnecessary when they wilfully ignore a sign.

_Edited to add:_ Sorry, Colin, it's (hopefully) obviously not a poke at you as I think we agree anyway, it's just that particular experience is a little, shall we say, raw for me.


----------



## Crackle (7 Nov 2011)

Norm said:


> Having been in the position of the farmer in your tale, it is probable that he would have been more than totally exasperated.
> 
> When you devote your life to the welfare of animals, you don't want to be forced into making the decision between shooting someone else's animal and allowing it to continue to damage your own animals and profits. It's a dreadful place to be and it feels entirely unnecessary when they wilfully ignore a sign.
> 
> _Edited to add:_ Sorry, Colin, it's (hopefully) obviously not a poke at you as I think we agree anyway, it's just that particular experience is a little, shall we say, raw for me.




The law allowing them to do it is ridiculously outdated though. It's not acceptable to allow your dog to chase animals but nor is it acceptable to shoot someone's dog. In fact it's pretty barbaric. It's a law which needs changing.


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## Bicycle (7 Nov 2011)

Crackle said:


> The law allowing them to do it is ridiculously outdated though. It's not acceptable to allow your dog to chase animals but nor is it acceptable to shoot someone's dog. In fact it's pretty barbaric. It's a law which needs changing.




My father -in-law farmed sheep in the valleys all his life. He never spoke of shooting a dog when the owner was present. He used dogs to work his sheep, but was not happy about people letting them run free on farmland. It is a very uncool thing to do.

That's *all year round*, not just during lambing. He was unsentimental about stock as living, breathing creatures, but each lamb was worth a decent EU payment plus a Hill Farm Subsidy at slaughter. 

Some dogwalkers might not realise that what they see as the 'countryside' is earning a living for someone. 

Another bain was people leaving gates open. 

Anecdotally or otherwise, I never heard of a farmer shooting a dog when its owner was present, but I can imagine the tacit threat being made or implied.

Having said that, discharging a shotgun around people who are not in your party is twelve different flavours of naughty... so licenses would be at risk. A farmer really doesn't want anyone questioning his right to keep firearms.


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## Bicycle (7 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I know next to nothing about cars and as a consequence have no idea what you're on about, but I do enjoy your descriptions, I like to picture you in a big leather chair with a large brandy, like the fella from The Fast Show.




Tragically, my children keep telling me I'm like him.

It breaks my heart.


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## Crackle (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> My father -in-law farmed sheep in the valleys all his life. He never spoke of shooting a dog when the owner was present. He used dogs to work his sheep, but was not happy about people letting them run free on farmland. It is a very uncool thing to do.
> 
> That's all year round, not just during lambing. He was unsentimental about stock as living, breathing creatures, but each lamb was worth a decent EU payment plus a Hill Farm Subsidy at slaughter.
> 
> ...



Well, I imagine this is the case and you have to take a large pinch of salt to stories you hear. Certainly the police were pretty hot checking licenses and facilities and habits in a rural area I lived in.


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## Mugshot (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> Tragically, my children keep telling me I'm like him.
> 
> It breaks my heart.



Sorry buddy  kids can be so cruel!


----------



## Norm (7 Nov 2011)

Bicycle said:


> Having said that, discharging a shotgun around people who are not in your party is twelve different flavours of naughty... so licenses would be at risk. A farmer really doesn't want anyone questioning his right to keep firearms.


 That's a good point. A farmer ranting at the same time as appearing to load will have had a much greater impact on the couple than a farmer who was only ranting.


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## Little yellow Brompton (7 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> @ LYB, No fella i didn't, as i got out of their way as i am considerate, not like the ignorant arrogant bastards that passed by without saying cheers! i even said hello to a few without any response! Maybe they didnt like me being on THEIR Towpath?



ROFL! You fail to see the dichotomy here?


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## bjellys (7 Nov 2011)

I am a bit concerned by this post I ride my bike with my dog running with me who should I thank the walkers or the cyclists.
Only joking I try to show some thought for others when out, I stop and bring the dog to me when ever there are young children other cyclists or dog walkers .I find most people give me a nod or a wave . In life there are people who just have problems communicating with their fellow human beings so if they don't I just smile to myself and carry on. 
On my morning dog run I meet a fellow cyclist on a daily basis who has real trouble just saying good morning I just put it down him not being a people person.
No doubt the next post will be some guy saying that an annoying cyclist keeps saying good morning to him on his way to work.


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## SurlyNomad (8 Nov 2011)

A *dichotomy* is any splitting of a whole into exactly two non-overlapping parts, meaning it is a procedure in which a whole is divided into two parts. It is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets) that are:

@LYB! I had to look that bugger up! I thought you swore at me lol.


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## John the Monkey (8 Nov 2011)

bjellys said:


> Only joking I try to show some thought for others when out, I stop and bring the dog to me when ever there are young children other cyclists or dog walkers .I find most people give me a nod or a wave . In life there are people who just have problems communicating with their fellow human beings so if they don't I just smile to myself and carry on.



As I said further back, I see it as my duty to control my dog when I'm out and about with him.

People can thank me if they like, and that's jolly nice of them (in their position, I'd say thanks too), but I don't expect it, any more than I'd expect to be thanked for not tripping them up as they pass me.

Incidentally, people deriding folders - they're bloody brilliant things. Granted, I look slightly like an escaped circus bear on one, but for going to meetings where you're not sure of the bike parking at the site, running errands, the ability to catch any train you jolly well like...fantastic. The huge surprise of my own Brompton purchase was how well it rode - the bike was sold after the first minute or so of the test ride.


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## Mugshot (8 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> Incidentally, people deriding folders - they're bloody brilliant things. Granted, I look slightly like an escaped circus bear on one, but for going to meetings where you're not sure of the bike parking at the site, running errands, the ability to catch any train you jolly well like...fantastic. The huge surprise of my own Brompton purchase was how well it rode - the bike was sold after the first minute or so of the test ride.



 I'm not sure if the this is about my comment regarding folders, but if it is I'm honestly not deriding them. The story about the cross bar is absolutely true. The fact is my folder was a girls bike, well a womans actually, it had been my mums, but owing to the fact we lived in a cardboard box and ate gravel for tea I had to put up with the hand me downs (fortunately this didn't extend to my mothers clothes too!) You'll be pleased to know however that despite the scaffolding tube a quick piece of sugery with a hacksaw through the middle of the tube meant it could still be bent in half, so a folder it remained, just a boys one


----------



## Little yellow Brompton (8 Nov 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> A *dichotomy* is any splitting of a whole into exactly two non-overlapping parts, meaning it is a procedure in which a whole is divided into two parts. It is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets) that are:
> 
> @LYB! I had to look that bugger up! I thought you swore at me lol.




Pleased to help. I love finding a new word.


Now, back to business....

This morning I encountered* 8 dog walkers, 10 dogs, 2 on a lead, 7 not under control, including one that walked right across my path causing me to stop. I didn't run over any of them, yet I didn't recieve any thanks or acknowlednment for that. The question is, were the dog walkers "ignorant arrogant bastards that passed by without saying cheers" or just people getting on with their day?

* I orginally used "met" but that implies a bit more human contact than really happened.


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## Little yellow Brompton (8 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I'm not sure if the this is about my comment regarding folders, but if it is I'm honestly not deriding them. The story about the cross bar is absolutely true. The fact is my folder was a girls bike, well a womans actually, it had been my mums, but owing to the fact we lived in a cardboard box and ate gravel for tea I had to put up with the hand me downs (fortunately this didn't extend to my mothers clothes too!) You'll be pleased to know however that despite the scaffolding tube a quick piece of sugery with a hacksaw through the middle of the tube meant it could still be bent in half, so a folder it remained, just a boys one




I had the same reaction in the 60/.70s to my Moulton Super 4. ( wish I had kept it)


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## John the Monkey (8 Nov 2011)

Mugshot said:


> The fact is my folder was a girls bike, well a womans actually, it had been my mums, but owing to the fact we lived in a cardboard box and ate gravel for tea I had to put up with the hand me downs (fortunately this didn't extend to my mothers clothes too!) You'll be pleased to know however that despite the scaffolding tube a quick piece of sugery with a hacksaw through the middle of the tube meant it could still be bent in half, so a folder it remained, just a boys one



Heh 

Probaby a Stowaway, or one of the many, er, homages to Raleigh's design - the Stowaway was a folding version of the Raleigh Twenty.

They're actually pretty nice bikes (or can be) - there's a bit of a cult following for the Twenty;

http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html
http://raleightwenty.webs.com/
http://www.hadland.me.uk/twenty.htm

if you look at some of the modifications people make to them, you might well come to the conclusion that you and your Dad were ahead of your time


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## Mugshot (8 Nov 2011)

John the Monkey said:


> Probaby a Stowaway, or one of the many, er, homages to Raleigh's design - the Stowaway was a folding version of the Raleigh Twenty.



Fantastic!  
It was definitely a Raleigh and it certainly had the sprung rack over the back wheel (is there a proper name for these things?) I remember the sprung rack well because I was able to hook my mums shopping trolley on to it and drag it along.
Like this only not as posh.I still find it difficult to believe I was made fun of


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Nov 2011)

Uncle Mort said:


> This thread is useless without pictures of dogs!


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

Crackle said:


> The law allowing them to do it is ridiculously outdated though. It's not acceptable to allow your dog to chase animals but nor is it acceptable to shoot someone's dog. In fact it's pretty barbaric. It's a law which needs changing.



It's a terrible situation for anyone to face, but how do you propose a farmer should protect valuable livestock? A dog in a field of pregnant ewes can cause immense amounts of damage, and I have had to deal with a couple of instances where dogs have been shot. In neither of those cases did the farmer have any alternative. The dogs were chasing sheep, one had already killed a lamb, no owners were present, the farmer had tried to corner one of the dogs which growled and snarled at him. 

I'd be interested in hearing any workable proposals which would save the farmer from having to resort to shooting.


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

Sick bag anybody?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-1MnpI20gI


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## Mugshot (8 Nov 2011)

Uncle Mort said:


> This thread is useless without pictures of dogs!



Oh now you've done it, very nearly 12 months since Barney started chewing slippers in heaven  

Edit: Good grief thats a big picture, that's almost life size!


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

GO on Mugshot, one more post for your ton-up!


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Nov 2011)

Uncle Mort said:


> FTFM



Christ, you've gotta work hard to please some folk...


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

Must be my hearing, I thought he said


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> Must be my hearing, I thought he said



Just as well he didn't say Enos then!


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## Crackle (8 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> It's a terrible situation for anyone to face, but how do you propose a farmer should protect valuable livestock? A dog in a field of pregnant ewes can cause immense amounts of damage, and I have had to deal with a couple of instances where dogs have been shot. In neither of those cases did the farmer have any alternative. The dogs were chasing sheep, one had already killed a lamb, no owners were present, the farmer had tried to corner one of the dogs which growled and snarled at him.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing any workable proposals which would save the farmer from having to resort to shooting.




No alternative because he's allowed to do it but if he wasn't I'm pretty sure farmers would come up with alternatives.

It deserves a fuller answer but I'm afraid it'll have to be from someone else as I'm not in the mood today and the thread has been part tailly derailled with piccies.


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Nov 2011)

Crackle said:


> ...and the thread has been part tailly derailled with piccies.



I apologise...







...on behalf of Uncle Mort, it was all his fault.


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## Crackle (8 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> It's a terrible situation for anyone to face, but how do you propose a farmer should protect valuable livestock? A dog in a field of pregnant ewes can cause immense amounts of damage, and I have had to deal with a couple of instances where dogs have been shot. In neither of those cases did the farmer have any alternative. The dogs were chasing sheep, one had already killed a lamb, no owners were present, the farmer had tried to corner one of the dogs which growled and snarled at him.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing any workable proposals which would save the farmer from having to resort to shooting.



Having mulled on it through the day, as I dripped gloss on the floor and smeared it amateurishly across the door...

It simply needs to change so there's no automatic right to shoot the dog. Same as there's no automatic right to kill a burglar but there is a right to defend your property.

There was a precedent a wee while ago, where a bloke stabbed his neighbours dog to death after it attacked his. It went to court and he was absolved on the grounds he was defending his property, his dog.

Same thing you might say but I think the emphasis would be in the right place then.


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## Lisa21 (8 Nov 2011)

A couple of years ago now, one of the tenant farmers had trouble with dogs worrying his sheep. 2 alsatians and a jack russel. One of his workers recognised the dogs and had a polite and quiet word with the owner.
Week later they were in the field again chasing the sheep, 2 warning shots were fired and they ran off. Another quiet and polite word was had with the owner.

A few weeks later, 2 dead lambs, several aborting ewes and sheep being chased into a frenzy-yes, the same 3 dogs were back. They were chased off again, the police were called, and all subsequent bills (vets, loss of livestock etc were sent to the owner of the dogs. It ended up in court as they refused to pay, and while im not sure how the sorry tale ended up, the dogs were never back after that.

No, the dogs should not have been there, and it was only by the grace of god that the farmer was an animal-lover as well as a businessman that only warning shots were fired, but to me its as clear as day that..once again..it is *irresponsible owners*, who not only cause untold damage, loss and distress but also have a knock-on effect and spoil it for responsible owners and well trained dogs.


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## CopperCyclist (8 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> It's a terrible situation for anyone to face, but how do you propose a farmer should protect valuable livestock? A dog in a field of pregnant ewes can cause immense amounts of damage, and I have had to deal with a couple of instances where dogs have been shot. In neither of those cases did the farmer have any alternative. The dogs were chasing sheep, one had already killed a lamb, no owners were present, the farmer had tried to corner one of the dogs which growled and snarled at him.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing any workable proposals which would save the farmer from having to resort to shooting.



Compulsory dog licensing and insuring for 3rd party risks would work. Dog kills ewe, farmer makes suitable claim against owners insurance.

The obvious problem is enforcement of this, as far too many would simply not bother getting the insurance and risking it.


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

CopperCyclist said:


> Compulsory dog licensing and insuring for 3rd party risks would work. Dog kills ewe, farmer makes suitable claim against owners insurance.
> 
> The obvious problem is enforcement of this, as far too many would simply not bother getting the insurance and risking it.



It's a start, but it depends on the people actually having a licence in the first place. The last shot dog I saw was a Pit cross Mastiff, horrible bloody thing. We had intelligence as to who it belonged to, and there were tales of it getting out and menacing schoolkids at going home time. It eventually got into a farmyard where it killed a couple of dozen hens, and an in-lamb ewe before it was shot. I went to see the alleged owners who took great exception to the suggestion that the dog was theirs. Despite all the dog apparatus, including a treadmill and swimmer they simply denied ownership. 

So how would the farmer go about recovering the costs from them in that instance? 

You and I know how Magistrates are swayed by apparent show of remorse, and a decent brief explaining hardship, addictions and everything else except proper responsibility for crimes, so how many people would actually bother with licensing, compulsory chipping etc etc?


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## Cubist (8 Nov 2011)

Crackle said:


> Having mulled on it through the day, as I dripped gloss on the floor and smeared it amateurishly across the door...
> 
> It simply needs to change so there's no automatic right to shoot the dog. Same as there's no automatic right to kill a burglar but there is a right to defend your property.
> 
> ...



I see where you are going, and in fact that is pretty much how the law stands now. The farmer must prove that he took the steps to protect livestock, ie he must have livestock in the fields.

There is, to the letter of the law, a right to shoot them if they are not controlled on land where livestock is being kept. Your leaning towards needing to prove an actual threat rather than a potential threat would, I believe, be a reasonable step-change. 

I feel uncomfortable with the law as it stands, but can only enforce what is in the statute. Remove human sentimentality from the debate, and it becomes more black and white. 

My most difficult case was that of a family labrador shot, having escaped into the farmer's field and chased sheep three times in a fortnight. It had caused real damage, with several ewes aborted and the entire flock stressed. The family were adamant that they should have been warned, but how many warnings can a farmer give while watching his livelihood being destroyed?


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## Crackle (8 Nov 2011)

Cubist said:


> I see where you are going, and in fact that is pretty much how the law stands now. The farmer must prove that he took the steps to protect livestock, ie he must have livestock in the fields.
> 
> There is, to the letter of the law, a right to shoot them if they are not controlled on land where livestock is being kept. Your leaning towards needing to prove an actual threat rather than a potential threat would, I believe, be a reasonable step-change.
> 
> ...



That sounds fairly harrowing.

I think my step change would include an emphasis on the farmer having taken other steps, if the situation allowed, before shooting the dog. So if it happened over a period of time, it would not be reasonable to shoot the dog the last time if the farmer couldn't prove he'd taken steps to find the owner and of course that also means he'd have to be able to give reasonable surety it was the same dog he'd witnessed on all occasions. None of that needs to be overly onerous, a phone call to the council or whoever to ask them to help/act/intervene and an accurate description of the dog with dates and times.

I don't overly buy the livelihood business. Farmers normally have recourse to insurance or compensation or the option to sue the owner once traced. Bottom line is, we eat sheep, dogs occupy a different place in our hierarchy.

Of course none of that excuses an out of control dog or lessens the need to protect livestock as farmers property but it puts it more in line with how the rest of us would have to act in an analogous situation, whatever that might be.


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