# Will the new mandatory face covering laws on public transport push up bike sales still further?



## Racing roadkill (5 Jun 2020)

The law will require you to wear face coverings on public transport, as of the 15th of June. Will this help push bike sales up even further?


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## dodgy (5 Jun 2020)

Doubt it, try buying a bike just now!


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## Chris S (5 Jun 2020)

It won't make any difference around here, Muslim women have been wearing them for years.


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## mustang1 (5 Jun 2020)

May be more e-bikes.


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## rogerzilla (5 Jun 2020)

Probably, although the sort of 6 hour train journey where a face covering would become intolerable isn't replaceable by a bike journey.


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## MarkF (5 Jun 2020)

I have to wear one at work and it drives me crazy after hours, no way am I wearing one in my own time too.

We once had a discussion at work about why asians didn't cycle, well they do now and in large numbers.


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## Phaeton (5 Jun 2020)

Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?


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## vickster (5 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?


Make your own - they don't need to be of clinical quality - just to capture droplets if you sneeze/cough. You can use a buff or a bandana or whatever as long as mouth and nose covered

This has already been introduced on public transport in Germany

The timing is as there's an expectation use of public transport will increase as more businesses, esp. shops open from the 15th. Plenty of people already using, signs on buses etc, but will be mandatory and enforceable from the 15th. Gives time for the legislation to be made

My London-based company is expecting an increase in cycling - and is pushing the C2W in regular CEO communications (he's a cyclist I believe). Whether people can get a bike is a different matter of course


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## figbat (5 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?


It seems that they are specifically demanding "face _coverings_", not "face _masks_".

From here:


> Face coverings are not the same as face masks. It is important that people do not use medical grade PPE masks to ensure these remain available for frontline staff. Last month, the government set out advice for people on how to make their own face coverings easily at home, using scarves or other textile items. These face coverings should cover the mouth and nose while allowing the wearer to breathe comfortably and can be as simple as a scarf or bandana that ties behind the head to give a snug fit.


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## Sharky (5 Jun 2020)

My daughter & SIL were already cycling to the station, but only about a mile, then tube etc to get into London.
They are both planning on doing the whole journey by bike, about 8 miles each way when they have to go into their office, but I think they will continue working from home for a while.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jun 2020)

Sharky said:


> My daughter & SIL were already cycling to the station, but only about a mile, then tube etc to get into London.
> They are both planning on doing the whole journey by bike, about 8 miles each way when they have to go into their office, but I think they will continue working from home for a while.



8 miles a perfect distance for a daily commute by bike. Far enough that it’s better than walking, close enough that it won’t take that long .


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## vickster (5 Jun 2020)

On a nice sunny dry day maybe. Less so if the weather is rank / cold / wet and there aren't ample facilities (and with Covid people are less likely to want to use communal showers/changing rooms even if they do exist / are available). I certainly wouldn't

8 miles is far enough to get utterly soaked by rain or sweat regardless of clothing on a wet day


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## lazybloke (5 Jun 2020)

People are afraid of crowded public transport right now. Face-coverings will reduce that fear and make people more accepting of over-crowding. 
Can't see that having much affect on bike sales.

There are always exceptions. On those hottest afternoons/evenings of the year, the sun-baked non-air-conditioned trains out of Waterloo are hideous. Whilst maintaining decency, I'd wear as little as possible! 



There's probably a separate discussion to be had about the effectiveness of home-made face-coverings. We're not talking about medical grade masks, but ill-fitting scarfs or home-made scraps of fabric.


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## Low Gear Guy (5 Jun 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Probably, although the sort of 6 hour train journey where a face covering would become intolerable isn't replaceable by a bike journey.


This is true but very few people will be doing six hour train journeys until hotels etc reopen.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?


I got a box of 50 from Boots earlier today. They meet the medical standards, so are okay for this sort of thing.


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## figbat (5 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I got a box of 50 from Boots earlier today. They meet the medical standards, so are okay for this sort of thing.





gov.uk said:


> It is important that people do not use medical grade PPE masks to ensure these remain available for frontline staff.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Jun 2020)

I got them from a high street Boots, if they’re selling them to the general public, I’ll buy them. If you or the government have a problem with that, take it up with Boots.


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## figbat (5 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I got them from a high street Boots, if they’re selling them to the general public, I’ll buy them. If you or the government have a problem with that, take it up with Boots.


I tend to agree that if the government want these restricted to key workers then there should be a mechanism by which to control the restriction. Nonetheless the advice is what it is and we can make individual decisions about personal vs social protection measures.


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## nickyboy (5 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I got them from a high street Boots, if they’re selling them to the general public, I’ll buy them. If you or the government have a problem with that, take it up with Boots.


Boots sell type II which are non surgical grade. Not to be confused with type IIR which are fluid repellent.IIR are specified to be used in hospitals, care homes etc. 
Boots and other high street retailers and eBay and Amazon aren't allowed to sell surgical grade products


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## screenman (5 Jun 2020)

I have posted this before,


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## Racing roadkill (5 Jun 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Boots sell type II which are non surgical grade. Not to be confused with type IIR which are fluid repellent.IIR are specified to be used in hospitals, care homes etc.
> Boots and other high street retailers and eBay and Amazon aren't allowed to sell surgical grade products


Nope.





this is them.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> 8 miles is far enough to get utterly soaked by rain or sweat regardless of clothing on a wet day



Sweat you can avoid by moderating your pace. There’s plenty of waterproof clothing out there that can handle 8 miles riding in the rain, so you don’t get soaked.


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2020)

MarkF said:


> I have to wear one at work and it drives me crazy after hours, no way am I wearing one in my own time too.


Im the same , manual job too so they give us 2 a day but after a while the inside is wet with exhaled breath after a while .We cannot even walk across the car park without one so i have to carry on in my saddlebag and put it on as soon as i park up.


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## Racing roadkill (6 Jun 2020)

cyberknight said:


> Im the same , manual job too so they give us 2 a day but after a while the inside is wet with exhaled breath after a while .We cannot even walk across the car park without one so i have to carry on in my saddlebag and put it on as soon as i park up.


That would drive me nuts.


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## RoadRider400 (6 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?


If you own a buff for winter cycling then job done.


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## Drago (6 Jun 2020)

screenman said:


> I have posted this before,
> 
> View attachment 527680


If only were that simply. The WHO have summarised the various recent studies and credible efforts at modelling, and they are saying that the wearing of a mask only reduces the chance of transmission between 3% and 11%. In the words of the WHO the reduction is "slight", whereas the wee wee analogy is probably 100%. That wee wee cartoon is laibale to encourage people into thinking they can use public transport and enter shops wearing a mask with little or no risk of transmitting the disease, which is about as far from the truth as it is possible to get.

And that is the danger. Intelligent people such as yourself are already believing that masks are highly effective and spreading that misinformation, when in actual fact they have very little chance of reducting the spread of infection. 

Wear them by all means, but don't be thinking it makes you safe around others. Read up on how to wear and remove them and wash them without creating a risk of cross contamination. Just blithely donning one and blithely going about your business otherwise as normal does bugger all.


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## Racing roadkill (6 Jun 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> If you own a buff for winter cycling then job done.


Quite right, it’s face *coverings, *not specifically masks ( yet ). Although there is a bit of ‘mission creep’ coming in, and the law is being extended to “health care environments” and the medical advisors have mentioned shops and all indoor public areas now.


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## Racing roadkill (6 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> If only were that simply. The WHO have summarised the various recent studies and credible efforts at modelling, and they are saying that the wearing of a mask only reduces the chance of transmission between 3% and 11%. In the words of the WHO the reduction is "slight", whereas the wee wee analogy is probably 100%. That wee wee cartoon is laibale to encourage people into thinking they can use public transport and enter shops wearing a mask with little or no risk of transmitting the disease, which is about as far from the truth as it is possible to get.
> 
> And that is the danger. Intelligent people such as yourself are already believing that masks are highly effective and spreading that misinformation, when in actual fact they have very little chance of reducting the spread of infection.
> 
> Wear them by all means, but don't be thinking it makes you safe around others. Read up on how to wear and remove them and wash them without creating a risk of cross contamination. Just blithely donning one and blithely going about your business otherwise as normal does bugger all.


I agree, I don’t believe that masks are particularly effective. Unfortunately the law is what it is, and if I have a choice of wearing a mask which doesn’t do much, or get slapped with an 80 quid fine, I know which I choose.


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## Slick (6 Jun 2020)

Obviously I hope it does and can see it sticking with some despite the obvious challenges weather brings but I can't be alone in not being overly concerned about getting a bit wet before I get to work. I think the real explosion will come from E-Bikes, there will be some sort of extension to the Ctw scheme and if my expectations are correct, I may invest in one for myself if the incentive is good enough.

Well, it would be rude not to.


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## screenman (6 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> If only were that simply. The WHO have summarised the various recent studies and credible efforts at modelling, and they are saying that the wearing of a mask only reduces the chance of transmission between 3% and 11%. In the words of the WHO the reduction is "slight", whereas the wee wee analogy is probably 100%. That wee wee cartoon is laibale to encourage people into thinking they can use public transport and enter shops wearing a mask with little or no risk of transmitting the disease, which is about as far from the truth as it is possible to get.
> 
> And that is the danger. Intelligent people such as yourself are already believing that masks are highly effective and spreading that misinformation, when in actual fact they have very little chance of reducting the spread of infection.
> 
> Wear them by all means, but don't be thinking it makes you safe around others. Read up on how to wear and remove them and wash them without creating a risk of cross contamination. Just blithely donning one and blithely going about your business otherwise as normal does bugger all.




Not highly effective, but as Brailsford would say marginal gains. I also think WHO have changed their view on this in the last couple of days.


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## winjim (6 Jun 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Boots sell type II which are non surgical grade. Not to be confused with type IIR which are fluid repellent.IIR are specified to be used in hospitals, care homes etc.
> Boots and other high street retailers and eBay and Amazon aren't allowed to sell surgical grade products


We're wearing type 1 in the lab.


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## Julia9054 (6 Jun 2020)

Just bought a pack of 10 washable ones from Amazon. Not that I have any intention of going near any yukky public transport but thought it was prudent to get some in before there is a massive rush on them.


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## Slick (6 Jun 2020)

screenman said:


> Not highly effective, but as Brailsford would say marginal gains. I also think WHO have changed their view on this in the last couple of days.


It's a bit long but the latest update is here. 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019


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## Slick (6 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Just bought a pack of 10 washable ones from Amazon. Not that I have any intention of going near any yukky public transport but thought it was prudent to get some in before there is a massive rush on them.


I did the same a few weeks back, and a couple from people raising money for charity as I think they will become mandatory in a number of settings eventually.


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## vickster (6 Jun 2020)

Coronavirus: WHO advises to wear masks in public areas https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52945210


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Just bought a pack of 10 washable ones from Amazon. Not that I have any intention of going near any yukky public transport but thought it was prudent to get some in before there is a massive rush on them.


Link please julia
I ordered some a while ago, they never turned up
Edit, can the ones you ordered be used with glasses?


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## ozboz (6 Jun 2020)

Whilst the weather is reasonable riding is popular , if it turns people will go for the alternative ,


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## Julia9054 (6 Jun 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Link please julia
> I ordered some a while ago, they never turned up
> Edit, can the ones you ordered be used with glasses?



View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0893CV59X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I only ordered them yesterday so hoping they will turn up. Never thought of the glasses thing - hope so because I wear glasses too! 
Just noticed the price on the link. I paid £1 more yesterday!


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## Maverick Goose (6 Jun 2020)

I have an 8 mile commute which I do rain or shine and it's perfectly manageable (I keep spare clothes at work).Sometimes I walk in if it's a really nice day-I can always get a lift home if I need to. I have a Buff as well, which is handy.


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> That would drive me nuts.


well should have been my 1st full week this week but had to take it off as mini ck 1 in hospital all week


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## Phaeton (6 Jun 2020)

Maverick Goose said:


> I have an 8 mile commute which I do rain or shine and it's perfectly manageable (I keep spare clothes at work).Sometimes I walk in if it's a really nice day-I can always get a lift home if I need to. I have a Buff as well, which is handy.


Not to derail the original question, but to lots of people an 8 mile commute, is 1 hours cycling, 2.5 hours walking, if you do an 8 hour days, that extends it to 10 or 13 hours where do you get the extra time in each day? I'm currently working from my garden 40 foot from my bed & I still can't get everything done.


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## MarkF (6 Jun 2020)

cyberknight said:


> Im the same , manual job too so they give us 2 a day but after a while the inside is wet with exhaled breath after a while .We cannot even walk across the car park without one so i have to carry on in my saddlebag and put it on as soon as i park up.



I think 2 hours was the limit for single use disposable masks? Once damp, a new one is needed regardless. I am often thinking that I am going to get a respiratory disease trying to avoid one.......


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Not to derail the original question, but to lots of people an 8 mile commute, is 1 hours cycling, 2.5 hours walking, if you do an 8 hour days, that extends it to 10 or 13 hours where do you get the extra time in each day? I'm currently working from my garden 40 foot from my bed & I still can't get everything done.


You don't do extra jobs till the weekend 😁
I commute near enough 10 each way and basically it's about another 15_20 mins each way compared to the car


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jun 2020)

Wearing some silly bit of material over your face is going to do diddly squat. If you are crammed into a crowded commuter train or some other confined space where people are breathing all over each other, if someone has got the virus and you haven't already had it yourself and become immune, then you're getting it - simple as that. Accept it or don't go near anyone else for the next year or more!.


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## Tom B (6 Jun 2020)

Have they defined what a face covering is?

A lot of this coronavirus legislation is so rushed and loose to the point of being useless.

Who is going to be enforcing it?


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## Slick (6 Jun 2020)

Tom B said:


> Have they defined what a face covering is?
> 
> A lot of this coronavirus legislation is so rushed and loose to the point of being useless.
> 
> Who is going to be enforcing it?


They defined it as being at least 3 layers thick.


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## Tom B (6 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> They defined it as being at least 3 layers thick.



Grannies net curtains it is then...


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## lane (6 Jun 2020)

I don't intend to go anywhere I am required to wear a mask. Possible exception with NHS now that is required but I will try to avoid that as well.


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## Racing roadkill (7 Jun 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Wearing some silly bit of material over your face is going to do diddly squat. If you are crammed into a crowded commuter train or some other confined space where people are breathing all over each other, if someone has got the virus and you haven't already had it yourself and become immune, then you're getting it - simple as that. Accept it or don't go near anyone else for the next year or more!.


I agree, unfortunately an 80 quid fine is an 80 quid fine.


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## Racing roadkill (7 Jun 2020)

Tom B said:


> Have they defined what a face covering is?
> 
> A lot of this coronavirus legislation is so rushed and loose to the point of being useless.
> 
> Who is going to be enforcing it?


BTP.


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## Blue Hills (7 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> They defined it as being at least 3 layers thick.


No_one is going to be picked up on/prosecuted for a layering deficiency though are they?
In any case I had the idea that buffs were OK/permitted for general public use?


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## Slick (7 Jun 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> No_one is going to be picked up on/prosecuted for a layering deficiency though are they?
> In any case I had the idea that buffs were OK/permitted for general public use?


That was the answer to the question asked which I assume is more for effectiveness than compliance. To be fair, I also thought any face covering would do, and I think they probably would as who is going to check, but they are unlikely to be effective which I think is the basis for some questioning their use at all.


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## Tom B (7 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> BTP.



I don't think the British Trainspotting Police are going to be on the number 6 bus from Arseend to Bumbottom. 

Of course they may take a non hard line 4 es, engage, educate, explain and finally only if you really must and there is no option and it doesn't upset anyone too much enforce.

4 es explained here.
https/www.polfed.org/news-media/latest-news/2020/guidance-issued-on-new-police-powers/


Someone posted a picture on Facebook of a local train having 7 in 8 seats marked as out of use. The line is usually crush loaded on peak and often standing room only off peak. The annoying thing was a family of 3 spread out over 24 seats despite living together.


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## Julia9054 (9 Jun 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> can the ones you ordered be used with glasses?


And the answer is . . .


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

I intend to wear mine on my head ... like a hat ... there is no regulation as to where you wear it ....


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> They defined it as being at least 3 layers thick.



The Health Minister in wales has yes but the official line is face covering that covers your mouth and nose. 
The thinking behind it and the science that supports it. Is all about limiting the infection.
Which is different to health care settings which is all about preventing infection.


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## Mr Whyte (9 Jun 2020)

The one I got ages ago came all the way from China, and it`s not to bad either as two filters either side.


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

cyberknight said:


> You don't do extra jobs till the weekend 😁
> I commute near enough 10 each way and basically it's about another 15_20 mins each way compared to the car



The trick is to avoid the extra jobs even at the weekends.


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

A Placebo For The Masses ..... Sorry Comrade Lenin ....


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

Dave Slant said:


> The one I got ages ago came all the way from China, and it`s not to bad either as two filters either side.


Is it the sort with filters that have values ? If so they are one way ie out. They may give you a level of protection but not others. 
Which is the whole point of public face covering mine protects you , yours protects me.


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

It's my understanding that the masks with outlet valves produce streams of vapour ..possibly infecting anyone well beyond the 2 metre point ..


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## Mr Whyte (9 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> Is it the sort with filters that have values ? If so they are one way ie out. They may give you a level of protection but not others.
> Which is the whole point of public face covering mine protects you , yours protects me.




It looks like you have to turn and press to unclip the filter holder, and then you can put a New filter in place.


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> It's my understanding that the masks with outlet valves produce streams of vapour ..possibly infecting anyone well beyond the 2 metre point ..


*Mod Note:*
Hi @Landsurfer, could you possibly insert a link to a reputable source for this?
We are trying to stay away from hear say on Covid19 threads, in order not to spread false info.
Cheers,
The Mods.


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

Pat "5mph" said:


> *Mod Note:*
> Hi @Landsurfer, could you possibly insert a link to a reputable source for this?
> We are trying to stay away from hear say on Covid19 threads, in order not to spread false info.
> Cheers,
> The Mods.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/certain-type-n95-mask-harm-covid19-spread

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzann...-banning-face-masks-with-valves/#59eed5046d92


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## Mr Whyte (9 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> https://www.healthline.com/health-news/certain-type-n95-mask-harm-covid19-spread




My one is totally different to the one in the link, as on mine the filters are on both sides of the cheek.


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## Rocky (9 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> https://www.healthline.com/health-news/certain-type-n95-mask-harm-covid19-spread


I think this is an area where there's a lack of evidence is how far virus particles are spread - I've been searching and can't see anything that backs up the 'further than 2 metre point'. I agree that they won't protect others in close proximity if the wearer is infected but it's hard to see that they will be any worse than not wearing a face mask. Also as @Dave Slant says, some of these have a filter both sides and some filter both in and out. So, it's all a bit more complicated than the reference from Healthline.


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

Dave Slant said:


> My one is totally different to the one in the link, as on mine the filters are on both sides of the cheek.


So .. 2 outlet valves ...? thats good then ...


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## Landsurfer (9 Jun 2020)

If wearing a mask gives you confidence, makes you feel safer, then it has to be a good thing.


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## Mr Whyte (9 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> So .. 2 outlet valves ...? thats good then ...




Looks like Amazon have not got it in, but I got it as soon as the lockdown came in and wore it on the bus a few times.




Landsurfer said:


> If wearing a mask gives you confidence, makes you feel safer, then it has to be a good thing.



I will only wear it now if I know I will be very close to any one while out walking our dog.


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## classic33 (9 Jun 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Link please julia
> I ordered some a while ago, they never turned up
> Edit, can the ones you ordered be used with glasses?


ARCO are showing as having masks in stock, and selling to the public.


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## Julia9054 (13 Jun 2020)

Here is my prototype new improved facemask for wearers of glasses. I took the crappy single layer ones I bought from amazon and made it double layer with the red fabric. I inserted picture hanging wire into the top seam so it can be moulded to the nose. Sewing is a bit rough as it is a prototype. You can buy the mouldable nose pieces that are sewn into proper masks on Amazon so when they arrive next week I will knock up a batch (with neater sewing) using the other 9 rubbish masks from last week’s purchase


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## Notafettler (14 Jun 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> This is true but very few people will be doing six hour train journeys until hotels etc reopen.


I am being ordered to do one. With buses it will be 8-9 hour journey. I am refusing till the pubs open. Then it will be worth it. What's the point of going to Herefordshire if you can't drink cider and talk shite in the village pub?


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## Notafettler (14 Jun 2020)

I didn't have a problem getting proper industrial/builders mask from screwfix during the shutdown.


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## Racing roadkill (15 Jun 2020)

Boots are still selling the medical waterproof masks. I got my mum some and dropped them round to her yesterday, as she’s not happy about being in public areas without some form of face protection. I also bought myself one of these.





Underneath the bidons is a Bianchi owners club buff, which has got a built in filter.


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## furball (15 Jun 2020)

The law requires the wearing of face coverings when on public transport. Not masks. The idea is to limit the likelihood of spread in an enclosed space along with social distancing rather than the prevention of spread.


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## Mr Whyte (15 Jun 2020)

On our local buses here, the folk here getting on a bus did not have any face masks on at all.


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## Landsurfer (15 Jun 2020)

Same here in Rotherham ... nobody bothered .... and the majority of the residents of Rotherham town centre don't speak English as a first language so maybe there is a bit of a barrier ...


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## Shreds (15 Jun 2020)

The whole saga has been driven by morons who dont know or understand anything at all. The cheap masks you can buy on the internet will save you from nothing nor will a scarf. Gaps around your nose, your beard etc are acknowledged weak points and the manufacturers will off record even confirm this. Those that are totally effective are NOT cheap and are special order only.. 

For years I have needed the most cost effective one in work situations yet today, my usual national supplier just said they are no longer selling them because of the unprecedented denand.

So because of the hoarding and paranoia, I can no longer work.

Government didnt think that one through, as all my colleagues in similar situatons across the country are the same. 

Anarchy in the UK.


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## classic33 (15 Jun 2020)

Shreds said:


> The whole saga has been driven by morons who dont know or understand anything at all. The cheap masks you can buy on the internet will save you from nothing nor will a scarf. Gaps around your nose, your beard etc are acknowledged weak points and the manufacturers will off record even confirm this. Those that are totally effective are NOT cheap and are special order only..
> 
> For years I have needed the most cost effective one in work situations yet today, my usual national supplier just said they are no longer selling them because of the unprecedented denand.
> 
> ...


They're to protect others from you, not you from others.

Basic hygiene measures not being followed. As for language, signs are easy enough to understand, whatever language(s) you speak.


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## lane (16 Jun 2020)

furball said:


> The law requires the wearing of face coverings when on public transport. Not masks. The idea is to limit the likelihood of spread in an enclosed space along with social distancing rather than the prevention of spread.



The whole thing is a complete bloody farce. Face coverings not masks, make your own, my daughter's school MUST wear on the bus to school MUST NOT wear in school. I have never heard so much complete bollocks in my life.


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> The whole thing is a complete bloody farce. Face coverings not masks, make your own, my daughter's school MUST wear on the bus to school MUST NOT wear in school. I have never heard so much complete bollocks in my life.



Time to ditch all this lockdown, face mask, and two metres crap and just get back to going about your routine as normal. A good chunk of the population will have already had the virus by now anyway, so all this bollocks trying to prevent it spreading when it had already spread six months ago, is totally futile.


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## screenman (16 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Same here in Rotherham ... nobody bothered .... and the majority of the residents of Rotherham town centre don't speak English as a first language so maybe there is a bit of a barrier ...



Majority?


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## numbnuts (16 Jun 2020)

Most of the buses that have passed my place didn't have anybody on them been like that for a few days now


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## Darius_Jedburgh (16 Jun 2020)

To answer the original question....no. 
Once the stupid 2metre rule goes, once we get into the cooler days of September and October, once it starts getting windy and (more) rainy and once the days start getting shorter then all the newly bought or dragged out of the shed bikes will be forgotten once again. They will come out next year.....for couple of weekends when TdF is on. 

Remember in this country the car is king.


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## Tom B (16 Jun 2020)

Watched 6 people get on the bus near me. No face coverings and no challenge.

I'm of the view that only the most vulnerable should be isolating (with those of the same immediate household) and isolating properly with all the supermarket home delivery slots etc being for them only.

The rest of us should get on.
It should be remembered that this lockdown was only a ever to slow the spread to a level the NHS could manage not stop it. The impact has been much less than feared.


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## Darius_Jedburgh (16 Jun 2020)

Tom B said:


> Watched 6 people get on the bus near me. No face coverings and no challenge.
> 
> I'm of the view that only the most vulnerable should be isolating (with those of the same immediate household) and isolating properly with all the supermarket home delivery slots etc being for them only.
> 
> ...


Spot on old bean.
The original idea was not to swamp NHS. That has been largely forgotten. Now the Panic virus has taken over and all sense or reason has disappeared. The lockdown has become an industry in itself. The only exception to lockdown is my own pet project.
The NHS has had it's first major test since its misguided inception and all the beaurocrats and paper chasers have been found to be way out of their depth.

Time to get some sense back into our daily lives.


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Jun 2020)

Tom B said:


> I'm of the view that only the most vulnerable should be isolating (with those of the same immediate household) and isolating properly with all the supermarket home delivery slots etc being for them only.



Absolutely, the more of the fit and healthy portion of the population that catch the virus, the better it is for those who really don't want to get it because it will make them properly sick. If the rest of us all catch it, and become immune, there wont be many carriers left so little risk of infecting the high risk groups.


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## Landsurfer (16 Jun 2020)

screenman said:


> Majority?


Yes, a large majority.


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## Mike_P (16 Jun 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Absolutely, the more of the fit and healthy portion of the population that catch the virus, the better it is for those who really don't want to get it because it will make them properly sick. If the rest of us all catch it, and become immune, there wont be many carriers left so little risk of infecting the high risk groups.


Apart from the fact that a number of people killed by the virus have been people who were fit, healthy and without any medical issues until the virus came along. Also whether immunity has any long term status is unknown so until a vaccine is available everyone is at risk. Wearing a nose/mouth covering of some form, even those cheap Amazon ones, cuts down on you spreading the virus, not from catching it, but if everyone wore a covering its spread would be limited and in hindsight everyone should have been doing that in March. Wearing them on public transport stops hard surfaces becoming contaminated as well as being socially pleasant to fellow passengers and transport staff.


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## Tom B (16 Jun 2020)

Arguably putting in staking off masks means they will be handled any virus caught in the mask can then be transferred to hands and into the grab rails etc that we all use.

People arnt going to be using fresh masks on every trip and they are going to fiddle with them when on. 

Plusses and minuses everywhere.

Have a look at the data here...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...2020#deaths-registered-by-place-of-occurrence

Remember covid deaths are yellow in the graphs. Seems that age is a massive factor in both covid and non covid deaths


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## Julia9054 (16 Jun 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Absolutely, the more of the fit and healthy portion of the population that catch the virus, the better it is for those who really don't want to get it because it will make them properly sick. If the rest of us all catch it, and become immune, there wont be many carriers left so little risk of infecting the high risk groups.


Firstly, we need 85-90% of the population to be immune for herd immunity to work. Secondly, we do not yet know whether having antibodies actually makes someone immune and for how long.


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## Ashimoto (16 Jun 2020)

Been on the bus this morning and just wore my snood. No big deal tbh. My wife is asthmatic and is exempt but this morning she had 2 drivers question her. One had a very bad attitude. She produced her inhaler and box with her name on yet the one with the bad attitude said she had to have a letter from the government. What a load of crap.


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## Julia9054 (16 Jun 2020)

Ashimoto said:


> Been on the bus this morning and just wore my snood. No big deal tbh. My wife is asthmatic and is exempt but this morning she had 2 drivers question her. One had a very bad attitude. She produced her inhaler and box with her name on yet the one with the bad attitude said she had to have a letter from the government. What a load of crap.


Asthma UK say that they are trying to negotiate how exempt people can prove it so it sounds like a method is not sorted yet. Like everything else so far, the government are making it up as they go along.


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## classic33 (16 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Asthma UK say that they are trying to negotiate how exempt people can prove it so it sounds like a method is not sorted yet. Like everything else so far, the government are making it up as they go along.


I'd say the bus companies are making it up as they go along. Some drivers are forced to wear them, others aren't. Even though they work for the same company, just different areas.


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## tom73 (16 Jun 2020)

Ashimoto said:


> Been on the bus this morning and just wore my snood. No big deal tbh. My wife is asthmatic and is exempt but this morning she had 2 drivers question her. One had a very bad attitude. She produced her inhaler and box with her name on yet the one with the bad attitude said she had to have a letter from the government. What a load of crap.



Contact the company many have cards they send you.To show the driver you have condition most have updated them to inc one for face coverings. Contact them anyway the attitude needs questioning it's not for them to judge.


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## lane (16 Jun 2020)

Is there any legislation on masks, what you can wear, what you can't or is it OK so long as you have made it yourself? You can wear masks that protect others but not you? Can someone point me to some legislation setting all this out? Or is it like the social distancing which has no legal basis hence loads of people don't follow it anymore.


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## classic33 (16 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> Contact the company many have cards they send you.To show the driver you have condition most have updated them to inc one for face coverings. Contact them anyway the attitude needs questioning it's not for them to judge.


Too many drivers are making judgements though. They know they can prevent you from travelling on "their" vehicle.


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Firstly, we need 85-90% of the population to be immune for herd immunity to work. Secondly, we do not yet know whether having antibodies actually makes someone immune and for how long.



Well herd mmunity is unlikely to be higher than 80% and may be lower, 7% have already had it so a further 73% or 48 million with best guess min deaths 240,000 and up to 480,000. We are getting some better treatments now so that might help. Although NHS would be overwhelmed no doubt about that. On the other hand we can't go on as we are forever and people just won't. Can't honestly see too much reason for optimism and it is fairly clear both polititions have no clue and some top scientists have hardly covered themselves in glory either. I don't really think democracies are well placed to deal effectively with a serious pandemic.


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## screenman (17 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Yes, a large majority.



Not what the demographics show in fact they show a higher than average of English born.


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## Mike_P (17 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> Is there any legislation on masks, what you can wear, what you can't or is it OK so long as you have made it yourself? You can wear masks that protect others but not you? Can someone point me to some legislation setting all this out? Or is it like the social distancing which has no legal basis hence loads of people don't follow it anymore.



​

A comment taken off another forum;

I don’t understand why anyone should want to exploit loophole with regard to wearing a mask. Whilst it cannot stop you getting the virus it will reduce the chance of you giving it to someone else. So in one sense It becomes a mark of respect for your fellow man or woman rather than the behaviour of short sighted people who think they are free to do anything they like and damn the consequences for everyone else. 
All the best


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## tom73 (17 Jun 2020)

classic33 said:


> Too many drivers are making judgements though. They know they can prevent you from travelling on "their" vehicle.



I know the message is not getting out it's not hard to explain it but that would be common sense and that will never do. 
It was not help by the law coving this only came out late night on Sunday.
Can see a challenge coming via the of denying goods and services route.


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## Racing roadkill (17 Jun 2020)

So far, I’ve not had any problems with the ‘bikeflation’ issues. I’ve even still found some discounts on the kit I’ve bought. I guess if people shop around, they could still avoid issues. However, I fear that a lot of people that are new to the game, will simply go to whichever bike place, has stock, and not bother looking elsewhere / price checking, and that will lead to them paying over the odds prices.


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## Racing roadkill (17 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> Well herd mmunity is unlikely to be higher than 80% and may be lower, 7% have already had it so a further 73% or 48 million with best guess min deaths 240,000 and up to 480,000. We are getting some better treatments now so that might help. Although NHS would be overwhelmed no doubt about that. On the other hand we can't go on as we are forever and people just won't. Can't honestly see too much reason for optimism and it is fairly clear both polititions have no clue and some top scientists have hardly covered themselves in glory either. I don't really think democracies are well placed to deal effectively with a serious pandemic.


The big test, coming soon, is the emerging SARS-CoV-2 outbreak situation in Beijing. The W.H.O. have officially declared it a ‘cause for concern’, and we all know what happened when they said that about Wuhan. Here we go again then.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ections-surge-in-six-us-states-latest-updates
and this doesn’t look good either.


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## matticus (17 Jun 2020)

Mike_P said:


> _Is there any legislation on masks, what you can wear, what you can't or is it OK so long as you have made it yourself? You can wear masks that protect others but not you? Can someone point me to some legislation setting all this out? Or is it like the social distancing which has no legal basis hence loads of people don't follow it anymore. _
> ​
> ​
> 
> ...


or in other words: 
"Nope, I have no idea what the answer is." 
Well done.


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## rogerzilla (17 Jun 2020)

The one thing we don't know is how many people are actually vulnerable to it. It seems to barely affect kids and many other people are either asymptomatic or don't get it at all. I was looking after someone with it, and drove them to and from hospital (where they were on oxygen for 3 days) with no protection, but all I had was a cough for a few hours (may not have been the virus, but the timing was just right). My sister worked on a CV19 ward for two months and was the only one of the original staff that didn't get it. The virus seems to latch onto some people's DNA and not others.


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## BigMeatball (17 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where is everybody supposed to get these masks from & how are you supposed to know they are of a quality that means they actually work? Also why from the 15th? What's happening between now &then that makes it safe before but not after, do they have a crystal ball?



I think the british government has been dealing with the pandemic in an incredibly horrible way.

In other countries where masks were made compulsory (for instance, Italy), the government provided the masks for free to all citizens.

In the uk....zero guidance, zero help.


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## rivers (17 Jun 2020)

I'll be avoiding public transport for the time being, but not because of having to wear a mask. Now, that the number of people allowed on the bus is limited, it will be even less reliable than previously. The one day/week I took the bus for work could take anything from an hour and 20 minutes to 3 hours to get to work. My wife and I have sorted out that there are a couple of days/week where she doesn't need the car, and I can take it then, or if possible, I work from home.
But, if the government turned around and said I needed to wear a mask to enter stores, then I wouldn't complain. Because it's not about me, it's about protecting those around me.
edited to add: i already wear a mask into the grocery store and am avoiding other stores at the minute.


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## BigMeatball (17 Jun 2020)

My office will be closed until the end of October, regardless of what the situation is and the guidance from the government, so I won't be taking public transport for a looooong time.


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## Mike_P (17 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> or in other words:
> "Nope, I have no idea what the answer is."
> Well done.


 Pretty clear statement by my local bus company
A face covering, usually made from cloth, is used to cover your nose and mouth whilst allowing you to breathe comfortably. It doesn’t have to be a bespoke item – it can be a scarf or other small item of clothing. You are not encouraged to wear medical face masks, which are prioritised to our hard-working friends in the NHS.


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## matticus (17 Jun 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Pretty clear statement by my local bus company
> A face covering, usually made from cloth, is used to cover your nose and mouth whilst allowing you to breathe comfortably. It doesn’t have to be a bespoke item – it can be a scarf or other small item of clothing. You are not encouraged to wear medical face masks, which are prioritised to our hard-working friends in the NHS.


At least that is adding some information to the discussion.


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## alecstilleyedye (17 Jun 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> If you own a buff for winter cycling then job done.


i'll be using my cycle chat one 👍


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

Mike_P said:


> ​
> ​
> 
> A comment taken off another forum;
> ...



Not a loophole. Just clarity on what is required, which is absolute bare minimum that should be expected before any new policy is introduced. Not least if you want the policy to achieve the stated objective. Clearly just from discussion on this form that bare minimum expectation has not been met.


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> I think the british government has been dealing with the pandemic in an incredibly horrible way.
> 
> In other countries where masks were made compulsory (for instance, Italy), the government provided the masks for free to all citizens.
> 
> In the uk....zero guidance, zero help.



Exactly. But when you try to establish such information on this forum you are accused of trying to find loopholes. Hence people think F*** it and don't bother.


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## lazybloke (17 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Firstly, we need 85-90% of the population to be immune for herd immunity to work. Secondly, we do not yet know whether having antibodies actually makes someone immune and for how long.


As I understand it, if there is herd immunity to the Coronavirus it would be achieved at a much lower percentage because of the relatively low R number (compared to say, measles).

But that's nitpicking. It's your 2nd point that bothers me.


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## BigMeatball (17 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> Exactly. But when you try to establish such information on this forum you are accused of trying to find loopholes. Hence people think F*** it and don't bother.



Yes, agreed.

Judging from what I've seen on the streets and what I've read on forums/facebook groups, it would appear that the vast majority of the population in the uk is just trying to find loopholes to keep doing whatever the hell they want. It's shocking how it's just "me me me" and they can't understand the bigger picture.


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## Racing roadkill (17 Jun 2020)

I have a large stock of the decent medical grade face masks, just in case ( as I think will certainly happen ) the rules are tightened to include all indoor public areas. I also have a buff I bought from the Bianchi owners club, which has a built in PPE filter, so I can cover my face in style.


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I have a large stock of the decent medical grade face masks, just in case ( as I think will certainly happen ) the rules are tightened to include all indoor public areas. I also have a buff I bought from the Bianchi owners club, which has a built in PPE filter, so I can cover my face in style.



Yes fine but are you actually allowed to wear them? Does anyone know and if not why not


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

[


Mike_P said:


> Pretty clear statement by my local bus company
> A face covering, usually made from cloth, is used to cover your nose and mouth whilst allowing you to breathe comfortably. It doesn’t have to be a bespoke item – it can be a scarf or other small item of clothing. You are not encouraged to wear medical face masks, which are prioritised to our hard-working friends in the NHS.



Well that does help in a way - although it is so vague you could wear whatever - using such phrases as "usually" or "not encouraged". My son has some sort of PPE he bouht from China pre lockdown - but not one the NHS would use. However it does seem that from other discussion contractors are now short of PPE - not sure if his is one contractors would use. Also not sure if his protects just him or others. He seems quite happy it protects him. So it is clear as mud.


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> I have a large stock of the decent medical grade face masks, just in case ( as I think will certainly happen ) the rules are tightened to include all indoor public areas. I also have a buff I bought from the Bianchi owners club, which has a built in PPE filter, so I can cover my face in style.



Talking about ALL indoor public spaces - funny thing is my daughter MUST wear a mask (or should we face covering?) on the bus to school but MUST NOT wear it in the school. Anyone actually think this makes sense?


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## winjim (17 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> My son has some sort of PPE he bouht from China pre lockdown - but not one the NHS would use.


I suspect that the majority of the NHS are not wearing as high a grade of PPE as you might think...


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## lane (17 Jun 2020)

winjim said:


> I suspect that the majority of the NHS are not wearing as high a grade of PPE as you might think...



It might be as good as the NHS have just not one that they will use


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## winjim (18 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Firstly, we need 85-90% of the population to be immune for herd immunity to work. Secondly, we do not yet know whether having antibodies actually makes someone immune and for how long.


I'm afraid you're a step ahead even there. We need to figure out if having had the virus even means you produce antibodies in the long term.

We are way, way off any kind of 'herd immunity' and it's not clear if such a thing is even possible.


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## Notafettler (19 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> So .. 2 outlet valves ...? thats good then ...


Definitely! Clearly as you are sending out two lots of vapour in excess of 2 metres, Then you are giving covid19 to twice as many people. Originally they said all masks were useless then they weren't, now your implying just ones with valves?
What next? masks are preimpregnated with covad19!
Until they have some consistency everything said is worthless including your links.


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## Landsurfer (19 Jun 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Definitely! Clearly as you are sending out two lots of vapour in excess of 2 metres, Then you are giving covid19 to twice as many people. Originally they said all masks were useless then they weren't, now your implying just ones with valves?
> What next? masks are preimpregnated with covad19!
> Until they have some consistency everything said is worthless including your links.


I was being sarcastic .....


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## Notafettler (19 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I was being sarcastic .....


So was I!


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## lane (19 Jun 2020)

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...inst-the-coronavirus-and-should-you-wear-one/

A review of 30+ studies does not provide a great deal of support for wearing masks. Home made and cloth coverings really aren't much good you would be better using a medical mask. That's my reading anyway (I tend to skim read so may miss things). So:

Why are we being told to wear cloth masks when there is little evidence they are effective
Why are we told NOT to wear medical mask when they are actually a better option
Does it worry you that social distancing will be watered down on the basis people use masks when they are not effective anyway and we are being told to use the absolute least effective option available
Given the above will you bother to use a cloth face covering?
Has Trump got it right all along (clearly unlikely)


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## Landsurfer (19 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> https://www.newscientist.com/articl...inst-the-coronavirus-and-should-you-wear-one/
> 
> A review of 30+ studies does not provide a great deal of support for wearing masks. Home made and cloth coverings really aren't much good you would be better using a medical mask. That's my reading anyway (I tend to skim read so may miss things). So:
> 
> ...


1. Placebo for the masses ...
2. They are needed by medical staff, not those too frightened of their own shadows.
3. Not in the slightest, social distancing in the UK is a distraction and leading to the destruction of the UK economy.
4. No.
5. Trump ... You get the politicians you deserve USA...


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## lane (19 Jun 2020)

I think I am with you on most of your answers. But number 2, if the Government are serious about people using masks then why not make arrangements to supply large numbers of effective masks to everyone?


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## Landsurfer (19 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> I think I am with you on most of your answers. But number 2, if the Government are serious about people using masks then why not make arrangements to supply large numbers of effective masks to everyone?


The government are not serious about masks .... they know a means of keeping the masses quiet when they see one ....


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## Mike_P (19 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> https://www.newscientist.com/articl...inst-the-coronavirus-and-should-you-wear-one/


Doesn't really say anything that is not already known - they do not protect the wearer but they might stop someone who has the virus from passing it on.


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## Rocky (19 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> https://www.newscientist.com/articl...inst-the-coronavirus-and-should-you-wear-one/
> 
> A review of 30+ studies does not provide a great deal of support for wearing masks. Home made and cloth coverings really aren't much good you would be better using a medical mask. That's my reading anyway (I tend to skim read so may miss things). So:
> 
> ...


So that link is from 9 April and things have moved on quite a bit since then....

Here's a readable article (published in early May) from Vanity Fair which summarised things nicely and recommends that we wear masks to protect each other....and if we do it will have a dramatic effect on reducing the transmission of the virus:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says

If anyone is on Twitter, Jeremy Howard from the US is the go-to scientist for the latest evidence and studies.......here's a good place to start:


View: https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1274036544387477504?s=20


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

Version 2. Using up the last of my Zimbabwean fabric


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2020)

1.3 million bikes sold in UK during lockdown

Seems a quite incredible number to me.


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## MntnMan62 (23 Jun 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 1. Placebo for the masses ...
> 2. They are needed by medical staff, not those too frightened of their own shadows.
> 3. Not in the slightest, social distancing in the UK is a distraction and leading to the destruction of the UK economy.
> 4. No.
> 5. Trump ... You get the politicians you deserve USA...



Boris....... 

That said, there are many of us who find drumpf to be a vile, disgusting, evil insect who should be squashed under the sole of a shoe. And just when you don't think he can be any more repugnant, he proves you wrong.


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## Ashimoto (29 Jun 2020)

On my local bus there was a poster stating you didn't have to wear a surgical mask. You could make one out of an old t shirt. Scarves etc is acceptable. The t shirt statement is actually mentioned on the poster.


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## MntnMan62 (29 Jun 2020)

Ashimoto said:


> On my local bus there was a poster stating you didn't have to wear a surgical mask. You could make one out of an old t shirt. Scarves etc is acceptable. The t shirt statement is actually mentioned on the poster.



Scarves are probably the worst material to make a corona mask out of because it's so porous. Everything can get through it. If you want to make one yourself and want very good protection, use a bandana as your fabric to start with. Lay it open all the way. Then take a paper towel and lay it in the middle of the bandana. Then fold one side up and then the other. You will then have 3 layers of fabric plus the paper towel that you will be breathing through. I did a little research and I found that paper towels are one of the better filter materials for corona. So that plus the fabric and you're all set.


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