# Climbing, how much?



## mythste (12 Apr 2016)

Sorry for the vague thread title, but I couldn't think of how to phrase what I'm asking, so I'll explain!

I know where I'm at in distance, 30 miles is a blast, 40 miles is a ride, 50+ is a slog, but after doing a little hillier route than usual last Sunday (2000ish feet in 30ish miles) I realised I have no idea what that means!

I suppose there is something to be said for how steep the climbs are etc, but what do you consider a "good" amount of hills for a challenging ride?

Curious.


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## fossyant (12 Apr 2016)

In the Peaks you can easily average 1000ft of climbing per 10 miles. That's generally a hilly ride.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> In the Peaks you can easily average 1000ft of climbing per 10 miles. That's generally a hilly ride.


The same round here. The audax ride that I did on Sunday (plus the extra bits up and down the A646) was 127 km with about 2,400 m of climbing (79 miles, about 8,000 ft.). Some stretches of 17+%. I would say that it was a fairly tough route - unfit riders would have really struggled, fairly fit riders found it hard work, and fit riders rode it fast so they found it hard too!


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## tallliman (12 Apr 2016)

I'd say a good amount of hills is about 50-70 ft per mile here in the East Midlands.


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## winjim (12 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> In the Peaks you can easily average 1000ft of climbing per 10 miles. That's generally a hilly ride.


That's about what my rides average. Sheffield & the Peaks.


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## fossyant (12 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> That's about what my rides average. Sheffield & the Peaks.



It's the magic formula. Things start to get out of hand when it's 2000ft per 10 miles.


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## mythste (12 Apr 2016)

Well I certainly enjoy going up more than I enjoy coming down on long descents! 

Good to know some vague figures. This is my first season of "proper" cycling and though I'm proud to have a good few thousand winter miles in my legs, It's time I started hitting the steep stuff more often.

Thanks!


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## Ajax Bay (12 Apr 2016)

1000ft in 10 miles is 300m in 16km which is seriously hilly: for 100km that's 1900+m. Don't believe many people are doing rides of any length with that percentage much (I'm not saying they don't exist).
@Sea of vapours , who's based in Clapham (as in Yorkshire!) has done 9 x 100km plus rides in 2016 and is averaging ~1650m per 100km with a max of 2203m. I think that Audaxes need to have more than 1250m per 100km [Edited: it's 1500m - see post below] to get an AAA rating, which seems as good an objective 'climbing' threshold as any.
I have done a number of 100s (km) this year (Devon). Can't get a ride of less than 900m per 100km. Flat and fast is less than 1100m of climb per 100km. Hilly is more than 1400m and is 'good'. 1600m+ is probably over Dartmoor or across the grain towards Dorset.
2016 Average: 120km + 1403m


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## Sea of vapours (12 Apr 2016)

Audax AAA (Audax altitude award) climbing rate is 1,500m per 100km (it goes down a bit for longer distances, but not much!). That is certainly 'quite hilly'. Around here, picking a random loop of 100km will typically be distinctly over that target, though the ones I've done so far this year have often been chosen to stay [relatively] low and avoid ice and snow. The flattest I've managed was something like 1,200m for 100km and that did _feel _quite flat, so it's to a degree all about what you're used to I think.


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## Hacienda71 (12 Apr 2016)

On a mountain bike in the Peaks you quite often are doing 1500 ft plus every 10 miles. Road bike as said 1000ft per 10 miles is hilly.


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## Bollo (12 Apr 2016)

Around my way (Winchester/mid Hants) most rides usually deliver around 100m per 10km or 500ft per 10miles. It can't compete with the more mountainous parts of the country, but the constant up and down on roads that don't pay much attention to the landscape often takes people by surprise. Think interval training on real roads.


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## jamin100 (12 Apr 2016)

My training loop is 20 miles with 2000ft of climbing. I've recently got to the point where I quite like the hills and go out seeking them


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## Cubist (12 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> In the Peaks you can easily average 1000ft of climbing per 10 miles. That's generally a hilly ride.


I cannot find a ride that isn't 1000 feet per 10 miles. Town centre and back from here is 900 feet in six miles if you go the long way round. It's 750 feet in the last 2.5 miles out of 4.5 if you ride as the crow flies. The joys of living at 1300 feet!


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## jowwy (12 Apr 2016)

100ft per mile is the golden number of a hilly ride....anything above that is seriously hilly


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## Firestorm (12 Apr 2016)

My 26 mile ride on Sunday had total elevation of 100ft. I think that was the railway bridge.
I will now sit this thread out....


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## Ian H (12 Apr 2016)

You can go climbing hills in Devon and Somerset this Sunday.


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## kiriyama (12 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> 1000ft in 10 miles is 300m in 16km which is seriously hilly: for 100km that's 1900+m. Don't believe many people are doing rides of any length with that percentage much



Around here its roughly 40km=1000m of climbing. iv done a few 100km+ rides, all over 2000m climbing. I would ride these distances/elevation gains more often if it wasn't for work/life/time!


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2016)

The sister event to the one I rode on Sunday has over 2,550 m of climbing in 105 km (8,400 ft in 65 miles or about 1,300 ft per 10 miles). There are very few flat roads. 

This is the elevation profile for it ... (That was for when it was a 100 km route starting in Hebden Bridge. The extra 5 km is actually a flat road from the new HQ down the valley in Mytholmroyd.)


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## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2016)

My rule is below 1000m in 100km is flat. Anything more than 1500m in 100km is hilly. But that's just my personal thing. Others may differ.


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## Bollo (12 Apr 2016)

Firestorm said:


> My 26 mile ride on Sunday had total elevation of 100ft. I think that was the railway bridge.
> I will now sit this thread out....


A few years ago I took my bike on a visit to some friends in Eindhoven in the Netherlands. In 50km of riding the total ascent was 10m, which was about half elevation drift and half the bridge over the A2. Looking at the profile without the axis numbers, that bridge looked like Ventoux.


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## SpokeyDokey (12 Apr 2016)

I do around 65-70'/mile here in The Lakes and I am far from being a great cyclist - around 2400 miles last year. I can't do the big passes either so I steer clear of them. Hill wimp!

100'+ I would say is very hard going esp' over long routes.


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## jowwy (12 Apr 2016)

My commute home is 14.4 miles and 1300ft of ascent......its a toughy at the end of a working day and when your 17st


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## HLaB (12 Apr 2016)

I use the aforementioned guide of 1000ft in 10miles to classify a hilly ride. By that standard today's ride was flat.


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## psmiffy (12 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> My rule is below 1000m in 100km is flat. Anything more than 1500m in 100km is hilly. But that's just my personal thing. Others may differ.



That agrees with my experience when I am touring - to get over 2000m I have to be in the alps- best day 3300m in 132km - Forclaz, Saisies, a couple of minor bumps and a bit of Roselend so - 2500m/100km


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## Twizit (12 Apr 2016)

Bollo said:


> A few years ago I took my bike on a visit to some friends in Eindhoven in the Netherlands. In 50km of riding the total ascent was 10m, which was about half elevation drift and half the bridge over the A2. Looking at the profile without the axis numbers, that bridge looked like Ventoux.


Ah Ventoux. Stupidly did the Cingles there last year. About 16,000 feet in 80 miles so I guess that counts as "hilly".

Thankfully the Surrey hills are more reasonable and a typical route trying to get in a few good hills would net 3,000 feet in 40 odd miles, so I guess the 1,000 feet in 10 miles is a good measure.


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## nickyboy (12 Apr 2016)

jowwy said:


> 100ft per mile is the golden number of a hilly ride....anything above that is seriously hilly



Doing a 40 mile ride tomorrow with 5,000ft of climbing. Gonna be hard but very satisfying (providing I don't collapse in a heap)

Route plotting in the Peak District is amazing. Unless I really try hard to find the flattest or hilliest options, it always comes out at 95-105ft/mile.


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## mythste (12 Apr 2016)

It's interesting to hear all the ins and outs of what people ride! This past weekend really opened my eyes to how much I enjoyed the climbing. I've done hills as part of a route before but nothing I would consider "recreational". 

£10 says I'm a weight weenie this time next year


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## psmiffy (12 Apr 2016)

Twizit said:


> Ah Ventoux. Stupidly did the Cingles there last year. About 16,000 feet in 80 miles so I guess that counts as "hilly".



how many kilos of luggage did you have?


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## Ajax Bay (12 Apr 2016)

Ian H said:


> You can go climbing hills in Devon and Somerset this Sunday.


Thank you, Ian. And particularly enjoy the hill climb from Crowcombe: 150m in one km.


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## nickyboy (13 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> Thank you, Ian. And particularly enjoy the hill climb from Crowcombe: 150m in one km.



The hills of the SW are seriously underrated and relatively little known. I just had a look on Strava at that one. Blimey. It is as hard as Winnats Pass up here which is generally regarded as the toughest climb in the Peak District. WP is so hard that it is commonly avoided on rides by local cyclists. I did it a few days ago but it was a very unpleasant experience, just as Crowcombe would be I suspect


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## marcusjb (13 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> My rule is below 1000m in 100km is flat. Anything more than 1500m in 100km is hilly. But that's just my personal thing. Others may differ.



Yeah. I reckon that ties in with my own views. As things go above that 1.5%, then my swearing correlates in a linear manner. 

I have managed a 3.5% day in the mountains, that had an awful lot of profanity.


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## h0lly1991 (13 Apr 2016)

If you are after hilly try the tour of Pembrokeshire. Super long route 107miles and 10,500ft climbing. Absolutely love it.


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## Oldfentiger (13 Apr 2016)

This thread is making me feel much better about my cycling.
I was brought up in the flatlands surrounding Peterborough, where hills are measured in inches, and lived thereabouts for 50 years.
Work and promotion got us moved to where we are now, nestled part way up Pendle Hill.
We've got more committed to our cycling over the past year, but it's really easy to get demoralised about cycling round here, because of the severity of climbs locally.
Looking back on on my Strava feeds, my local rides all conform to the 1000 ft per 10 mile ratio.
Approaching my middle 60's now I don't think I'm doing so bad after all! Also I'm encouraged to find that I'm still improving and able to crest some climbs that previously had me beaten.


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## nickyboy (13 Apr 2016)

marcusjb said:


> Yeah. I reckon that ties in with my own views. As things go above that 1.5%, then my swearing correlates in a linear manner.
> 
> I have managed a 3.5% day in the mountains, that had an awful lot of profanity.



Don't forget that 1500m/100km equates to an average gradient of 3%, on the assumption that the downhills are the same grade as the uphills. Your 3.5% must have been a 7% average which sounds like a nightmare


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## Twizit (13 Apr 2016)

psmiffy said:


> how many kilos of luggage did you have?



About 92kg..... of me  It certainly wasn't quick!!


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## Ajax Bay (13 Apr 2016)

Well we came down the Crowcombe climb (which has two sets of double arrows on the OS 50,000 map) 7 hours into the Coast and Quantocks 200 last month and I was deeply envious of Jim's hydraulics disks and at the same time thinking 'Blimey, this 'd be seriously hard coming up'.


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## Cubist (13 Apr 2016)

As an only occasional road cyclist I find that the hills have an effect on the type of riding you do. Any local ride means the dreaded 100 feet in ten miles, and average speeds are lower than many of the flatland dwellers. However, a thirty mile ride is a good workout, and I tend to plan routes arou d the twenty to thirty miles mark. 

I occasionally treat myself to a day out in or around York, where I can happily do 50 or more miles. Strangely enough the practice of spinning at a constant rhythm/cadence takes a lot of getting used to compared with the climb, climb, climb, climb descend, climb, climb, climb, descend interval stuff a ride here tends to generate.


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## ColinJ (13 Apr 2016)

I like hills but the problem I have is that in order to escape the busy valley roads in and out of Todmorden, the most obvious choice is Cross Stone Road. That leads to some lovely alternative roads and would be fine if it were only 5-10% gradient but it has a long initial section of 15-20% which is a killer with just 1 km of a warm-up. I should start doing 10-15 minutes on my spinning bike before setting off up that way.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Apr 2016)

Here's a handy table to convert some of the various measurements we've been using

*...m/100km...ft/10mi..mi/1000ft*
*.......947.......500.......20.0 *
*.....1,000.......528.......18.9 *
*.....1,250.......660.......15.2 *
*.....1,420.......750.......13.3 *
*.....1,500.......792.......12.6 *
*.....1,894.....1,000.......10.0 *
*.....2,000.....1,056........9.5 * 

Edit. Bah. Not as legible as I'd hoped

Usual disclaimer applies. I am an idiot. This could be all wrong.


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## Ian H (13 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> Well we came down the Crowcombe climb (which has two sets of double arrows on the OS 50,000 map) 7 hours into the Coast and Quantocks 200 last month and I was deeply envious of Jim's hydraulics disks and at the same time thinking 'Blimey, this 'd be seriously hard coming up'.



I have managed 56mph on that descent, but this year it was damp and there was a car ahead.


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## Ihatehills (13 Apr 2016)

My usual 20 mile loop has 1260 ft of climbing according to Garmin. That is the flattest route I can find around me and that's plenty hilly enough for me thanks.


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## mythste (13 Apr 2016)

Ihatehills said:


> My usual 20 mile loop has 1260 ft of climbing according to Garmin. That is the flattest route I can find around me and that's plenty hilly enough for me thanks.



As your username suggests!


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## marcusjb (13 Apr 2016)

nickyboy said:


> Don't forget that 1500m/100km equates to an average gradient of 3%, on the assumption that the downhills are the same grade as the uphills. Your 3.5% must have been a 7% average which sounds like a nightmare



Col du Tourmalet (2115m)
Serrat du Gaye (1230m)
Hourquette d'Ancizan (1564m)
Col de Val Louron-Azet (1580m)
Col de Peyresourde (1563m)
Col du Portillon (1293m)
Port de la Bonaigua (2072m)

Insane day on a bike for sure. Many rude words used.


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## Sea of vapours (13 Apr 2016)

I think I like hills. I suspect that constant effort on the flat would come into the 'hard work' category for me due to the lack of resting on the downhill bits and based largely on a couple of excursions a bit too far east into the flatlands of the Vale of York. Living here in the northern hills also has the upside that I can easily convince myself that my average speeds would be much higher on the flat  Later this year, I'm finally going to cycle somewhere other than the 'Yorkshire Dales and other hilly bits nearby' when visiting a friend. Except, he lives in the Pyrenees, so that may not work out too well then


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## oldfatfool (13 Apr 2016)

Anything over 3000m/ 100km is certainly getting a bit bumpy especially with luggage


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## SpokeyDokey (13 Apr 2016)

Sea of vapours said:


> I think I like hills. I suspect that constant effort on the flat would come into the 'hard work' category for me due to the lack of resting on the downhill bits and based largely on a couple of excursions a bit too far east into the flatlands of the Vale of York. Living here in the northern hills also* has the upside that I can easily convince myself that my average speeds would be much higher on the flat * Later this year, I'm finally going to cycle somewhere other than the 'Yorkshire Dales and other hilly bits nearby' when visiting a friend. Except, he lives in the Pyrenees, so that may not work out too well then



A kindred spirit here (Lakes).


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## gavgav (13 Apr 2016)

I think it depends on the terrain you are used to and based in. For me, in Shropshire, I would class a hilly ride as approx 50ft per mile, but then when I go on holiday to the Lakes, most rides are around 100ft per mile, which I find very hilly!


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## Kajjal (13 Apr 2016)

I find about 1000ft per 10 miles builds a good level of fitness once you can keep it going for a good few hours on road. 

Mountain biking off road is alot harder as you don't just have the height gain but also big knobbly tyres, have to work to keep traction and also heave the bike over trail hazards like rocks and drainage channels. Its very hard work on long, steep, rougher trails but the downhill makes it worthwhile


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## nickyboy (14 Apr 2016)

Sea of vapours said:


> I think I like hills. I suspect that constant effort on the flat would come into the 'hard work' category for me due to the lack of resting on the downhill bits and based largely on a couple of excursions a bit too far east into the flatlands of the Vale of York. Living here in the northern hills also has the upside that I can easily convince myself that my average speeds would be much higher on the flat  Later this year, I'm finally going to cycle somewhere other than the 'Yorkshire Dales and other hilly bits nearby' when visiting a friend. Except, he lives in the Pyrenees, so that may not work out too well then



Good news is that we eat those Strava climbing challenges for breakfast

It's funny what you get used to. As I said, 100ft/mile is pretty standard around the Peak District. So when I get to do a 70ft/mile ride it feels.....easy. Having said that I did my 40 mile/5,000ft ride on Monday and those extra 25ft/mile really count. Certainly wouldn't want to do a long ride @125ft/mile

My CC Llandudno ride coming up is 28ft/mile.....can't wait


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## Ajax Bay (14 Apr 2016)

The Mille Pennines Audax 1-4 July is relatively flat: only 11750m of climbing spread over 1006km - about 60ft per mile for the 'imperial' users. So a 'flat' ride then.
But Hardknott and Wrynose Passes in the Lakes and Rosedale Chimney on the North York Moor will test.


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## sackville d (14 Apr 2016)

ColinJ said:


> I like hills but the problem I have is that in order to escape the busy valley roads in and out of Todmorden, the most obvious choice is Cross Stone Road. That leads to some lovely alternative roads and would be fine if it were only 5-10% gradient but it has a long initial section of 15-20% which is a killer with just 1 km of a warm-up. I should start doing 10-15 minutes on my spinning bike before setting off up that way.


Or you could do the Lumbutts \Mankinholes loop going up Lumbutts Rd and coming down either Woodhouse Rd or Shaw Wood Rd to warm up then back along Burnley Rd to the bottom of Cross Stone. Thats got to be better than 15 minutes on a turbo surely Colin? That loop is a little gem,


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## ColinJ (14 Apr 2016)

sackville d said:


> Or you could do the Lumbutts \Mankinholes loop going up Lumbutts Rd and coming down either Woodhouse Rd or Shaw Wood Rd to warm up then back along Burnley Rd to the bottom of Cross Stone. Thats got to be better than 15 minutes on a turbo surely Colin? That loop is a little gem,


Yes, I do that quite frequently, in both directions. I am not keen on that potholed stretch of road from the centre of Tod past Morrisons though! When on my CX bike, I have been going along the cycleway from the railway station to miss that bit out.

Sometimes when going to Littleborough I do a liitle bit of the A646, Woodhouse Rd, Lumbutts Rd, Hollins Rd to Walsden, a stretch on the A6033 through the village and then climb Calderbrook Rd and come into Littleborough by the scenic route. A landslip forced the closure of the road to cars but it is fine for bikes, though the broken up road is a trap for the unwary cyclist coming the other way ... I nearly came a cropper on it the first time I descended that way after the landslip!
I shouldn't complain ... yesterday I climbed Moss Lane to get out of Hebden Bridge, avoiding rush hour traffic, and that little climb is a PIG!


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## Dogtrousers (14 Apr 2016)

I rode a 100 miler at the weekend. I even put my GPS onto imperial as I was helping out with ride leading and needed to set a pace and people were talking in mph and miles ridden. Anyway, that meant the elevation was in feet which meant absolutely nothing to me. Sooo.... when I got home and uploaded the ride I found that the GPX recorded elevation was *1,999m* Harrumph 

I should have thrown my GPS in the air at the end to celebrate.


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## Sea of vapours (14 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I should have thrown my GPS in the air at the end to celebrate.



Now _that _is an idea with merit! A celebratory, upward lobbing of the device at every hill top could certainly make a difference


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## marcusjb (15 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> The Mille Pennines Audax 1-4 July is relatively flat: only 11750m of climbing spread over 1006km - about 60ft per mile for the 'imperial' users. So a 'flat' ride then.
> But Hardknott and Wrynose Passes in the Lakes and Rosedale Chimney on the North York Moor will test.



Some of the stages are remarkably lacking in ascent, so it'll be all good to get a breather.

As ever, long events tend to skew the numbers somewhat - this summer I should climb over 30000m in a week, but the overall percentage will be fairly low due to the distance. 

Looking forward to the Mille Pennines though, should be spectacular.


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## leedsmick (15 Apr 2016)

Interesting thread. I usualy do just 60 minute rides on my lunch hour which are normally 14 miles ish. Ft climbed is around 800/900 so looks like im taking it easy compared to everyone. Best plot some harder loops !


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## Louch (18 Apr 2016)

Depends on terrain. I can leave the house and go left, and do about 200ft in 16 miles, or I can go right and do 2000 in 22 miles. Get lots of wind for resistance though to balance it out


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## Ajax Bay (18 Apr 2016)

marcusjb said:


> this summer I should climb over 30000m in a week, but the overall percentage will be fairly low due to the distance.


Well before you average, say, 250km climbing 4000+m a day, for a week - which I have to say sounds 'on the limit' Marcus, I hope you'll take time to refuel after the Mille Pennines (see you there).


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## marcusjb (19 Apr 2016)

Totally on the limit, real chance of failure, but that's all good as succeeding at everything you try means you definitely need to aim higher.

I will have three or so weeks to recover before the Mille Pennines, so all should be fine. See you there!


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## nathanliu (19 Apr 2016)

For the speed,I think it's good for you which is OK.


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## iggibizzle (19 Apr 2016)

I'm on the Mille Pennines too 

Around my way (fylde coast) I could do 100 mile and not hit 1000ft if I really tried. Probably less!  I often do rides with more than 100ft per mile though. Found the delightful dales 200km audax pretty comfortable the other week. That was 3300m (almost 11000ft).


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## ColinJ (19 Apr 2016)

iggibizzle said:


> Around my way (fylde coast) I could do 100 mile and not hit 1000ft if I really tried. Probably less!


I have devised a circuit near there which has less than 1,100 ft of climbing over 7 laps. One day I intend to have a go at a sub-5 hour century and that is where my attempt will take place, since I don't stand a chance of doing it on a hilly course!


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