# Long-term fatigue



## MattL (26 Jul 2011)

Hello,

I've been cycling regularly since about March. My general fitness has always been poor due to weight and lack of exercise.

Over the last couple of weeks my legs have been quite tired, as has the rest of me. I've not been out of breath, just tired even after a week's rest.

I'm reluctant to stop cycling as I'm starting to really lose some of the weight.

Is there anything I ought to consider before taking a longer break? Vitamin/mineral deficiency? Not enough sleep? Cycle shorter trips?

Physio could be a possibility if it might help.

Thanks.


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## WychwoodTrev (26 Jul 2011)

What sort of av speeds do you do or are you pushing yourself on all rides ? As if you ride as hard as you can all the time your body wont recover you need to do a slow recovery ride and I mean slow about 50_60% plus you do need a rest day and good quality sleep. Also remember to warm down at the end of a ride take it east for the last mile and do some stretches at the end of a ride. I hope this helps good luck and keep up the good work on the weight loss.


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## ColinJ (26 Jul 2011)

You might be suffering from some sort of bug. 

A couple of times over the past few years I've had one that's a bit like having a cold but without the runny nose or congested chest. I felt wiped out, but never developed the usual symptoms. After 10 days or so, I started to feel better.


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## Angelfishsolo (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been cycling regularly since about March. My general fitness has always been poor due to weight and lack of exercise.
> 
> ...



Ask your GP to run a full blood test for you. It "could" indicate something serious. Then again it could just need to take a break for a while. Even top flight athletes do this


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## JonnyBlade (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been cycling regularly since about March. My general fitness has always been poor due to weight and lack of exercise.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a diet question? I presume you are eating the right foods?


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## MattL (26 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the replies! 

I do generally ride quite hard. A good day (in generally favourable conditions) will see me ride from Sevenoaks to Maidstone (20 miles) in around 1:40, around the 11-12mph mark. This sounds quite slow but it's through the North Downs, which is quite hilly and has very little flat sections. On the plus side, it's these hills which got me into enough shape to do London to Brighton and London to Southend this year -- no walking!

With regard to stretching, that's probably something I need to do more of when finishing. I've had some funny tinglings in my back at night, which a physio has helped to put right and has impressed the importance of stretching more.

My diet is a good one. The missus has just started WeightWatchers so all the meals are to a pointed value. Even before then it's home-cooked stuff. We rarely have takeaways. I'm quite savvy when it comes to balance. On days when I'm riding I'll have a good-sized bowl of porridge for a morning ride or for the ride from work, have rice or pasta (75-100g pre-cooked) along with snacks of fruit. I don't often have anything with processed sugar, like sweets or chocolate.

I don't feel ill, sure I'm tired but maybe it's a bit like a footballer when the season's finished. They're trained athletes but they're only human. They need rest as much as anyone else. Perhaps riding "little and often" and easing off the pace a little as see how it goes.

Does anyone have any guides on portion sizes for food when exercising? If there's a way to calculate energy required so I can work out if I'm not eating enough carbs for example then that would be a great help.


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## Angelfishsolo (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> I do generally ride quite hard. A good day (in generally favourable conditions) will see me ride from Sevenoaks to Maidstone (20 miles) in around 1:40, around the 11-12mph mark. This sounds quite slow but it's through the North Downs, which is quite hilly and has very little flat sections. On the plus side, it's these hills which got me into enough shape to do London to Brighton and London to Southend this year -- no walking!
> 
> ...


I'm not sure a weight watchers diet is what you need. You are burning far more calories than a sedate person and so need a greater calorific input. Eat until you are full.


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## MattL (26 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Eat until you are full.


That's how I got in this mess! 

I think I need to research calorie intakes along with balance of proteins, sugars etc. for my exertion and try to see if there's a shortfall I need to make up.


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## Angelfishsolo (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> That's how I got in this mess!
> 
> I think I need to research calorie intakes along with balance of proteins, sugars etc. for my exertion and try to see if there's a shortfall I need to make up.



What mess? The tiredness or the weight. If the latter then remember you are burning far more calories now.


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## MattL (26 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> What mess? The tiredness or the weight. If the latter then remember you are burning far more calories now.



Yes, true but I shouldn't feel so tired. I know it's not easy and I'm bound to feel a bit worn after a while but if (for example) I need 3000 calories and I'm only consuming 1500 then that's too much to expect my body to take from the reserves. I'd be better off having 2250-2500 and do it gradually to avoid feeling so drained.


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## Angelfishsolo (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> Yes, true but I shouldn't feel so tired. I know it's not easy and I'm bound to feel a bit worn after a while but if (for example) I need 3000 calories and I'm only consuming 1500 then that's too much to expect my body to take from the reserves. I'd be better off having 2250-2500 and do it gradually to avoid feeling so drained.



Look at the type of food as well as the calorific intake. A balanced diet is important. (Says the person who lives on carbs and protein )


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## lulubel (26 Jul 2011)

I agree about the Weight Watchers meals. They're diet food, designed to make people lose weight on a program, not necessarily to provide you with a good range of nutrients.

If you want to see how many calories you are actually consuming, and how many you're expending, there are calorie counters online that will do this for you. I'll give you a link to the site I use. There's a charge for full membership, but you can sign up for 24 hours for free and play around with the numbers and find out exactly where you are with regards to calories, protein/carb/fat balance, etc . (I don't get anything for sending you there, by the way.)

Weight Loss Resources


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## noelmg (26 Jul 2011)

MattL said:


> Yes, true but I shouldn't feel so tired. I know it's not easy and I'm bound to feel a bit worn after a while but if (for example) I need 3000 calories and I'm only consuming 1500 then that's too much to expect my body to take from the reserves. I'd be better off having 2250-2500 and do it gradually to avoid feeling so drained.



I had exactly the same as you. Some weeks fine, others I'd be unable to climb the stairs when I got home.

Doctors did a full set of bloods and concluded that I suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Unfortunately there is no cure, only to 'manage it' (i.e. don't do too much), but I want to be on my bike!

I have started doing 1 day a week, hoping to up it to 2 days again soon.

Get checked out for CFS, its a right PITA but at least I know what it is now.


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## Arsen Gere (26 Jul 2011)

One other thing to consider is lack of salt. A lot of the diet stuff is stripped of it. If you are weight concious you probably don't eat salt laiden crap.
If you are starting to get fitter and you are starting to sweat a lot then you could be a bit low. It does not normally happen if you are sedantary.
Try a bag of salt and vinegar crisps and see if you feel better. Most doctors don't suspect this because normally our diets have sufficient salt.


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## Banjo (26 Jul 2011)

When you felt ok did you ride everyday? Taking a couple of rest days off the bike is important as well.


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## MattL (26 Jul 2011)

I've never really been a salt fan. I never add any to my meals (unless it's a treat and I'm having chip shop chips!) But I normally use some in cooking. The missus is cooking at the moment and I'm not sure she puts any in. On my longer rides, I fill one of my bottles with water and the other with squash of some sort, a few spoons of glucose from Holland and Barratt and a bit of salt. On reflection, I think I generally do feel better after the home-made energy drink and I'd hazard a guess that it's not just the glucose. I'll try some kind of salt with dinner or even saltwater for a couple of days and see how I get on. I might even stretch to a naughty packet of crisps - purely for medicinal purposes! 

Thinking about it, I work in an office with no air-con (I know!) maybe the light-sweating is on contrutory factor.

As for resting, I normally have a couple of days' rest between rides and they're rarely more than 20 miles. Occasionally I'll do more, in which case I'll take regular water and rest breaks while en route.

I'm quite prepared for the fact I'm over-estimating what I can do and under-estimating the energy and effort required and now the honeymoon period has passed and it's now in "serious" territory, the sort where if you're not that interested then the bike would end up in the shed.

I think my next steps are: investigating energy required versus carbohydrate intake, upping my salt intake by a pinch and changing my cycling to little-and-often. If nothing proves conclusive then it's a trip to the doctor's and get checked out in case I do have any conditions I'm not aware of.

Thanks to all who've contributed.


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## MattL (2 Aug 2011)

Just to follow up on this, I've started using a diet-tracking app called MyFitnessPal. With just the ride home from work (1:40~) I'm burning around 1800 calories and my intake by contrast is not near the amount to keep mr going.

Anyone on an exercise-to-lose-weight scheme would benefit from one of these apps to keep yourself from doing more harm than good like me!


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## jowwy (2 Aug 2011)

MattL said:


> Just to follow up on this, I've started using a diet-tracking app called MyFitnessPal. With just the ride home from work (1:40~) I'm burning around 1800 calories and my intake by contrast is not near the amount to keep mr going.
> 
> Anyone on an exercise-to-lose-weight scheme would benefit from one of these apps to keep yourself from doing more harm than good like me!



i have been using that app for approx the last 5months and it has helped me lose nearly 4 stone in weight and makes cycling a lot more fun.

you can also eat more than you actually think if you eat lots of veggies and salad stuffs which is next to no calories at all.

Happy training!!!!


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## amaferanga (2 Aug 2011)

MattL said:


> Just to follow up on this, I've started using a diet-tracking app called MyFitnessPal. With just the ride home from work *(1:40~) I'm burning around 1800 calories* and my intake by contrast is not near the amount to keep mr going.
> 
> Anyone on an exercise-to-lose-weight scheme would benefit from one of these apps to keep yourself from doing more harm than good like me!



Doubt it. Are you averaging about 25mph? If not then I doubt you're burning 1800 kCal in 1h40min. If you continue assuming you're burning over 1000 kCal/hour then you'll soon be gaining weight.


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## tongskie01 (2 Aug 2011)

MattL said:


> Just to follow up on this, I've started using a diet-tracking app called MyFitnessPal. With just the ride home from work (1:40~) I'm burning around 1800 calories and my intake by contrast is not near the amount to keep mr going.
> 
> Anyone on an exercise-to-lose-weight scheme would benefit from one of these apps to keep yourself from doing more harm than good like me!



you have to understand that weight is not a big issue now but the size. as BMI doesnt apply to athletes because of their muscle mass which make them heavier and thus increased bmi up to the level of overweight.

fat is the main issue here. hard exercise is probably not benificial to you. as fat can only be burnt effectively by medium exercise. if you think burning calories will reduce fat in your body thru hard exercise, think again. you might be burning your glycogen reserves and your muscles more than the body fat.


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## amaferanga (2 Aug 2011)

tongskie01 said:


> you have to understand that weight is not a big issue now but the size. as BMI doesnt apply to athletes because of their muscle mass which make them heavier and thus increased bmi up to the level of overweight.
> 
> fat is the main issue here. hard exercise is probably not benificial to you. *as fat can only be burnt effectively by medium exercise*. if you think burning calories will reduce fat in your body thru hard exercise, think again. you might be burning your glycogen reserves and your muscles more than the body fat.




Oh dear.


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## MattL (2 Aug 2011)

I try to go with decent pace. Being 5'11" and 16st 5lb it takes a lot more effort to ride the same distance than a thin(-ner) person would. Maybe the estimates are wrong but it's a step in the right direction to getting it right.


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## Rollon (2 Aug 2011)

I went through a few weeks last year, when busy at work feeling drained most of the time. This was after a multi day high mileage backpacking trip.
Eventually I went to my GP and had a blood test. The result was that I had become anemic. A short course of Iron tablets and I was back feeling great and fit again.
Dave.


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## Arsen Gere (2 Aug 2011)

MattL,
Stick to your estimates, its a lot better than not having a clue. Anything that is going to provide motivation like these apps has to be good. Don't forget any type of interval training will cause you to burn calories after you stop riding too, sprinting between lamposts, up hills anything that you can measure, repeat and make fun, but only when you feel well enough to tackle it.

Have fun.


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## Glover Fan (2 Aug 2011)

Banjo got there before me, but how often are you riding?

If it is every day you are doing too much.


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## MattL (2 Aug 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> Banjo got there before me, but how often are you riding?
> 
> If it is every day you are doing too much.


Twice mid-week, doing a little under 30 miles and also once at the weekend doing up to around 40 miles.

I've started eating more which has helped but also making informed choices, which the food diary will help to do. I'm not silly enough to think everything will be to the nearest calorie but as long as I have a nutritional compass then it's keeping me going in the right direction.


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## tongskie01 (4 Aug 2011)

MattL said:


> Twice mid-week, doing a little under 30 miles and also once at the weekend doing up to around 40 miles.
> 
> I've started eating more which has helped but also making informed choices, which the food diary will help to do. I'm not silly enough to think everything will be to the nearest calorie but as long as I have a nutritional compass then it's keeping me going in the right direction.



you might be overdoing it. your body is telling you that it needs to recover. give it some time to rest and eat sensibly. bear in mind that exercising hard will lower down your resistance to infection. so a cold or viral, chest infection might occur..vitamins and minerals loss might be a factor too. so u need to replace that too.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

amaferanga said:


> Doubt it. Are you averaging about 25mph? If not then I doubt you're burning 1800 kCal in 1h40min. If you continue assuming you're burning over 1000 kCal/hour then you'll soon be gaining weight.




+1

I tend to assume that I burn about 500 calories an hour, and thats at 20mph average, flatish roads, no drafting.


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## lulubel (4 Aug 2011)

People, stop telling him he's going to be overeating if he uses the figures from the site he's using. You're not helping.

Matt, stick with what you're doing. Follow the calorie guidelines on the site, and see what happens for a month or so. If your weight loss is pretty much what you would expect, then it's working for you, and you can carry on exactly as you are. If you don't lose, or lose faster than expected, then you can make adjustments. Everyone's body is different and it is all about experimenting, but you need a place to start from, and that's what you've got with the figures MyFitnessPal is giving you.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

How's giving him misleading information helping?

Tracking calorie intake = good practice.

Assuming calorie burn based on poorly set up websites = poor practice.

It's not even clear his fatigue is down to his diet. This is a such a great illustration of why people should not rely on internet forum's for health advice.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

VamP said:


> How's giving him misleading information helping?
> 
> Tracking calorie intake = good practice.
> 
> ...



Agreed. Every metabolism is unique so food charts are only guides. If not already recommended a full blood work-up should be done as long term fatigue can be caused my many conditions.


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## lulubel (4 Aug 2011)

You ask how giving misleading information is helping. It isn't. This is misleading, and is not helping.



VamP said:


> I tend to assume that I burn about 500 calories an hour, and thats at 20mph average, flatish roads, no drafting.



As Angelfish said, everyone's metabolism is different. You don't mention how tall or heavy you are, or how fit you are. These make a massive difference to how many calories you burn, so your figure of 500 calories an hour might just as well have been plucked out of thin air as far as anyone else is concerned.

The site Matt is using probably takes his height and weight into account, if not his fitness, so is likely to be more accurate for him than someone else's figure.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

lulubel said:


> You ask how giving misleading information is helping. It isn't. This is misleading, and is not helping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually weight over flat terrain has little impact. Speed has biggest impact on required power, due to air resistance. Which is why I quote it to illustrate my example. Fitness and height are irrelevant.

As we know from Matt that his speed is less, then it follows that his power output and therefore calories burned per hour will be significantly less than the 1000 calories this website blithely assumes. How much less I do not hazard to guess, and I am not advocating that he uses my assumption, as we know his route in the Downs is hilly.

As an additional pointer I also do cycle a lot in the North Downs, and my average speed there is in the 17 mph region, if that is of any use to the OP. This is for longer (cca 3 hour) rides, so will not be at the same intensity as the rides I referred to earlier.


My example is not misleading, as to whether it is helping, perhaps you should credit the OP with enough intelligence to decide for himself if it's helpful or not. Your advice to rely on inaccurate information, and to assume that he is burning a lot more calories than he is could be considered unhelpful by some  


Not to mention your blind faith that his problems are due to his diet. He should go and see his doctor, and get a full bloodwork done in the first instance.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

VamP said:


> Actually weight over flat terrain has little impact. Speed has biggest impact on required power, due to air resistance. Which is why I quote it to illustrate my example. Fitness and height are irrelevant.
> 
> As we know from Matt that his speed is less, then it follows that his power output and therefore calories burned per hour will be significantly less than the 1000 calories this website blithely assumes. How much less I do not hazard to guess, and I am not advocating that he uses my assumption, as we know his route in the Downs is hilly.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry. Are you saying that because his speed is low his he will burn less calories. That assumes a direct correlation between power output and calories burned. That may be demonstrable on a person to person basis but not as a generalisation.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I'm sorry. Are you saying that because his speed is low his he will burn less calories. That assumes a direct correlation between power output and calories burned. That may be demonstrable on a person to person basis but not as a generalisation.




Absolutely there is a direct correlation between power output and calories burned. Calories are energy which equals power multiplied by time. Basic physics. Biology only enters at the conversion from food energy to output energy. The human body is between 20 - 25 % efficient at converting food energy into energy output, so the actual amount burned will depend on the individual, but within that range.

So in my case, burning 500 calories per hour means that I am putting out about 119 calories per hour of work, to maintain that speed. If I travelled at a speed requiring half of that work then my calorie burn would be about 250. If I travelled at a speed that required twice the work then my calorie burn would be about 1000. If I could sustain that rate of work for an hour, which I know I couldn't. The OP's number's would likely be different for the same work, but only by the a maximum of that 5% efficiency variability.

What I think you may be saying, is that the correlation between speed and power output is not direct? Which is due to air resistance, or inclination of route, or - to a much lesser extent - the quality of one's bicycle.


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## amaferanga (4 Aug 2011)

lulubel said:


> You ask how giving misleading information is helping. It isn't. This is misleading, and is not helping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bet my house he isn't burning 1000kcal an hour on his regular rides.


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## LosingFocus (4 Aug 2011)

On another forum I have used, this was taken as a pretty accurate calories/hour chart:

http://www.nutristra...ess/cycling.htm

NB: Obv. everyone is different etc etc.


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## lulubel (4 Aug 2011)

VamP said:


> Actually weight over flat terrain has little impact. Speed has biggest impact on required power, due to air resistance. Which is why I quote it to illustrate my example. Fitness and height are irrelevant.



Weight has a lot of impact. It takes a lot more calories just to maintain a higher weight sitting still. It takes more again to move that weight. Fitness and height are not irrelevant. Your level of fitness will dictate how much effort it will take you to move a certain amount of weight over a certain distance at a certain speed. Generally, taller people burn more calories overall.



VamP said:


> Your advice to rely on inaccurate information, and to assume that he is burning a lot more calories than he is could be considered unhelpful by some



Maybe you should try reading my post again and tell me where I told him to "rely on" any information rather than using it as a starting point.



VamP said:


> Not to mention your blind faith that his problems are due to his diet.



Again, quote your source for the "blind faith" you claim I am expressing.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

lulubel said:


> Weight has a lot of impact. It takes a lot more calories just to maintain a higher weight sitting still. It takes more again to move that weight. Fitness and height are not irrelevant. Your level of fitness will dictate how much effort it will take you to move a certain amount of weight over a certain distance at a certain speed. Generally, taller people burn more calories overall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We are discussing additional calories burned through cycling, not his total!

You seem to be taking this personally. 


NFI. Go away and do some reading.


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## Rob3rt (4 Aug 2011)

This thread contains some of the most ridiculous comments of any thread I have seen on this here forum!

Get real guys and gals!

1000kCal an hour? Bollocks!

Only moderate exercise burns fat? LMFAO - Bollocks!

'That assumes a direct correlation between power output and calories burned' - That assumption would be a correct one, kCal is a measure of energy (it can also be expressed in joules), power is rate of energy, it can be expressed in Joule/S. 

However lets not forget that when working out a comparison between Kcal and power, muscle efficiency and also mechanical efficiency will effect the result, a muscle efficiency of around 25% (ballpark) combined with power lost via extranous movement, mechanical losses etc will explain why the power measured at the cranks will not be a simple unit conversion to Kcal spent with respect to time.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> This thread contains some of the most ridiculous comments of any thread I have seen on this here forum!
> 
> Get real guys and gals!
> 
> ...



Careful, someone will be along in a minute to tell you that you're not helping


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

LosingFocus said:


> On another forum I have used, this was taken as a pretty accurate calories/hour chart:
> 
> http://www.nutristra...ess/cycling.htm
> 
> NB: Obv. everyone is different etc etc.




It would have to be very hilly for that to be accurate.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

I will say this once more. Everybodys body is unique, their metabolic rate is different. The only way to know for certain is to stick to a given eating plan and exercise regime and see the results.


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## Rob3rt (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I will say this once more. Everybodys body is unique, their metabolic rate is different. The only way to know for certain is to stick to a given eating plan and exercise regime and see the results.



Every person may vary to some degree and even your method of knowing for certain would not be conclusive, but this cant account for the absurd numbers quoted here. 1000 kCal an hour, what are you doing riding up walls?


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## lulubel (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I will say this once more. Everybodys body is unique, their metabolic rate is different. The only way to know for certain is to stick to a given eating plan and exercise regime and see the results.



Thanks, Angelfish. That's pretty much what I was saying here, but someone who knows nothing about me seems to assume I'm stupid and know nothing.

Ah, well. There are rude, ignorant people everywhere, I guess.

And I'm leaving this thread because I can't be bothered with any more of this stupidity.

Sorry, Matt.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> Every person may vary to some degree and even your method of knowing for certain would not be conclusive, but this cant account for the absurd numbers quoted here.



I am in no position to say if the number is correct or not. What I see is a lot of conflicting opinions and different websites giving different results. At least "my way" gives a personal approach to weight loss. I know it is flawed but it seems to be the least flawed methodology thus far


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I am in no position to say if the number is correct or not. What I see is a lot of conflicting opinions and different websites giving different results. At least "my way" gives a personal approach to weight loss. I know it is flawed but it seems to be the least flawed methodology thus far




Look, I agree that none of us know exactly how much we burn, but the differences between individuals doing the same amount of work will be an order of magnitude less than the differences between reality and what is proposed by that ludicrous website.

Going back to OP, I don't think he should latch onto the idea that his diet is the root cause of his tiredness. It might be, but I actually think it's quite unlikely. He should get a proper diagnosis. And I think we are both agreed on that.


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## VamP (4 Aug 2011)

lulubel said:


> Thanks, Angelfish. That's pretty much what I was saying here, but someone who knows nothing about me seems to assume I'm stupid and know nothing.
> 
> Ah, well. There are rude, ignorant people everywhere, I guess.
> 
> ...



Two people pointed out the numbers on the calorie counting website were ridiculously overblown. You called them unhelpful and asked the OP to persevere with the website for a month, to see if that helps him. In the meantime his real underlying cause might go undetected.

Then you got annoyed and now you are calling people rude and ignorant. Time for a reality check I think.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

VamP said:


> Look, I agree that none of us know exactly how much we burn, but the differences between individuals doing the same amount of work will be an order of magnitude less than the differences between reality and what is proposed by that ludicrous website.
> 
> Going back to OP, I don't think he should latch onto the idea that his diet is the root cause of his tiredness. It might be, but I actually think it's quite unlikely. He should get a proper diagnosis. And I think we are both agreed on that.


If you look back at my posts you will see I have suggested a full blood work-up on a few occasions. I doubt diet is the cause TBH. I just have no faith in websites that tell you how many calories you are burning or need to eat. I am a firm believer in listening to your body.


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## MattL (5 Aug 2011)

Wow hot topic! I didn't think I'd be so popular so soon...

Sorting the wheat from the chaff, yes it did occur to me that 1000 calories was a lot to be burning up in an hour. I'm not completely daft. However, on days when I don't do much exercise, the calorie limit is quite low so it seems to balance out with the notion that if you exercise, you need to eat. I can't afford a personal trainer and nutritionalist so this will do for now. It's not an Atkins diet or Akai diet, Cambridge diet or some other faddy thing where people feel worse and not better for doing it.

In the end, the food diary accomplishes two things: one, I learn about what I am eating which puts the onus on me to keep with a regime and make better-informed choices; secondly if I do go to the doctor's, I actually have something to show him about my diet and exercise routine. I'm not one for running to the doctor's whenever I sneeze or have a slight headache. I rarely take and pills or medicine. The last thing I want to do it to turn up there without a clue of how I've been treating my body.

For what it's worth, I ate a lot more on the first day of cycling while on this eating plan and I didn't feel anywhere near as bad as I have done in the past, so it's not all hokum.

I plan to go with this for a couple of weeks and if things don't improve (which they seem to have already) then I go to the doctor's and get checked out for a deficiency or condition of some sort.


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## Zoiders (5 Aug 2011)

The last two sentences neatly cut out the last 4 pages.

See the doc as you possibly have the signs of an underlying condition, end of.

It's that or you have discovered that good quality exercise is simply hard work.


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## al78 (6 Aug 2011)

Up until February this year I had similar problems with fatigue, I couldn't cycle to work everyday (accumulated fatigue problems) and had to go to bed for several hours after the Sunday club ride. What eased it for me considerably was eating oranges, one or two a day. I still get tired occasionally, but it feels more like normal tiredness that I can recover from with a decent nights sleep, not like I have had the life blood sucked out of me. May not work for you, but it was just a thought.

Also, are you getting good quality sleep at night?


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