# More money than sense?



## bikeman66 (3 Dec 2015)

I guess we all know it's possible to spend some serious money on bikes and kit, but reading a feature on carbon wheel sets today, I saw a pair of Lightweight Obermeyer wheels priced at £4,199.

OK they were pretty light, and very sexy looking, and I appreciate the research and development that goes in to products, but over four grand for a couple of wheels??? I simply can't fathom how they can arrive at a price like that, and is there anyone on this planet that would be able to tell the difference between a £4k pair and a £1.5k pair.

As I'd love to be in a position to justify spending that kind of money on a complete bike, my question is, is a £4,000 wheel set ever worth shelling out for, or are they purely for folk with more money than sense and and lottery winners?


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## blazed (3 Dec 2015)

bikeman66 said:


> I guess we all know it's possible to spend some serious money on bikes and kit, but reading a feature on carbon wheel sets today, I saw a pair of Lightweight Obermeyer wheels priced at £4,199.
> 
> OK they were pretty light, and very sexy looking, and I appreciate the research and development that goes in to products, but over four grand for a couple of wheels??? I simply can't fathom how they can arrive at a price like that, and is there anyone on this planet that would be able to tell the difference between a £4k pair and a £1.5k pair.
> 
> As I'd love to be in a position to justify spending that kind of money on a complete bike, my question is, is a £4,000 wheel set ever worth shelling out for, or are they purely for folk with more money than sense and and lottery winners?


They're for people who can afford them. It's not only wealthy people who spend £4k on wheels, a lot of people on average salaries spend huge amounts of money on their hobbies. I've never got the term more money than sense, people with lots of money usually have lots of sense as that is how they accumulated their wealth. It's more likely poor people who lack sense.


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## screenman (3 Dec 2015)

They must have something going for them if they can afford thst much. 

Just because somebody spends money on something I could not justify does not in my mind make them fools.


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## simon.r (3 Dec 2015)

You could argue the same point for lots of things - the difference between a £500 hi-if and a £5,000 hi-if, between a £40k car and a £200k car, a £20 pair of jeans and a £100 pair...

Each to their own.


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## Hip Priest (3 Dec 2015)

One man's extravagance is another man's pocket money. I couldn't justify spending £4k on a bike, let alone a wheelset, but most people would regard spending £500+ on a bike as an incredible luxury. Some people can afford to blow 30 grand on a bar bill in one night.


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## Cuchilo (3 Dec 2015)

Wheels are where its at ! My race wheels are worth more than the bike i put them on . In fact my training wheels are hand built and worth more than the bike i race on . 
I need a new race bike !


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## loveandpeace1 (3 Dec 2015)

_Beluga Caviar at £24,000 a tin, a £2,000 plane meal and coffee at £325 a cup.
Because they can _


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## Accy cyclist (3 Dec 2015)

I wonder how these http://www.ubyk.co.uk/lightweight-meilenstein-obermayer-tubular-wheelset/14926 wheels would stand up to a pot holed journey everyday?


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## midlife (3 Dec 2015)

The guy who taught me implant teeth charges £60,000 a set. He arrived by helicopter.........

Shaun


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## puffinbilly (3 Dec 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> One man's extravagance is another man's pocket money. I couldn't justify spending £4k on a bike, let alone a wheelset, but most people would regard spending £500+ on a bike as an incredible luxury. Some people can afford to blow 30 grand on a bar bill in one night.



sssssssssshhh...ssssssssssssshshssshhsss


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## Sbudge (3 Dec 2015)

In my experience the cost of incremental performance improvements (whether it's a wheel, a server, a car etc) are not linear. So you get a huge improvement from stock wheels on a bike by spending £350 but to really move the needle again it might cost you £1,500 and then again etc.

I agree £4000 on a pair of wheels seems a fortune but I know fishermen who spend that sort of money in a year on tackle etc. I've friends who don't earn much but spend a fortune (to me) every weekend going to clubs etc. £100 a week on entertainment? Crazy to me. £4000 wheels to them? Madness. Each to their own.


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## Tim Hall (3 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> I wonder how these http://www.ubyk.co.uk/lightweight-meilenstein-obermayer-tubular-wheelset/14926 wheels would stand up to a pot holed journey everyday?





> They also developed a *compleatly* new hub for the front wheel, this allowed them to reduce the weight of the Meilenstein Obermayer by a total of 25 grams while at the same time doubling its rigidity and thus agility in a completely new dimension.


Two things:
If I'm spending over four grand on a pair of wheels, I'd expect the advert to be spelt correctly. Compleatly, FFS. Who wrote that? Izaak Walton?

25g is about an ounce. They've saved an ounce at the cost of four grand. That's more expensive than cocaine.


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## Sbudge (3 Dec 2015)

I've seen (but not ridden) a set of these 'in the flesh' and I must say that something about those flat blade carbon 'spokes' just felt wrong...but then the man in the shop said they're wonderful so they must be, no?


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## ColinJ (3 Dec 2015)

I've got more sense than money, which worries me far more than other people's money-to-sense ratio!


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## vickster (3 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I've got more sense than money, which worries me far more than other people's money-to-sense ratio!


Makes you pretty unusual amongst the males of the species  unless you are extremely poor


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2015)

vickster said:


> Makes you pretty unusual amongst the males of the species  unless you are extremely poor


You are talking about a man who spent 3 days semi-conscious with a pulse rate over 150 bpm, a swollen, throbbing red leg, barely able to breathe, contemplating whether he should send for a doctor ... 

Yes - I'm a wee bit skint!


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## Accy cyclist (4 Dec 2015)

There's something about carbon wheels and spokes that worries me. I'm going to get told i don't know what i'm on about, that may be true, but the thought of hurtling down a hill at say 40mph on a material that gives no warning of breakage and just snaps or shatters if hit the wrong way means that even if i could afford those wheels i'd rather go for the most expensive alloy wheels and spokes.


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> There's something about carbon wheels and spokes that worries me. I'm going to get told i don't know what i'm on about, that may be true, but the thought of hurtling down a hill at say 40mph on a material that gives no warning of breakage and just snaps or shatters if hit the wrong way means that even if i could afford those wheels i'd rather go for the most expensive alloy wheels and spokes.


What about carbon forks!


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## Accy cyclist (4 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> What about carbon forks!




Yes i know, but the thought of a spoke made from a few millimeters in width piece of carbon, holding a wheel in place scares me! I'm not that happy about carbon forks either.My carbon forks snapped when i was hit by that car in April. Carbon just isn't as strong as aluminium no matter what they say.  There are two things i always check before i go for a ride. One is making sure the wheel skewers are tight and locked in. The other is running my fingers over the forks, even sometimes inspecting them by torchlight to look for anything dodgy.


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## slowmotion (4 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> What about carbon forks!


I wish you hadn't said that! I'll have to put that on the stack of "To Worry About" things.


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## slowmotion (4 Dec 2015)

User said:


> Just before the wardrobe monster.


 No sleep for me tonight.....


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## Profpointy (4 Dec 2015)

User said:


> Just before the wardrobe monster.



what you mean there could be a monster in my wardrobe ?


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## raleighnut (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes i know, but the thought of a spoke made from a few millimeters in width piece of carbon, holding a wheel in place scares me! I'm not that happy about carbon forks either.My carbon forks snapped when i was hit by that car in April. Carbon just isn't as strong as aluminium no matter what they say.  There are two things i always check before i go for a ride. One is making sure the wheel skewers are tight and locked in. The other is running my fingers over the forks, even sometimes inspecting them by torchlight to look for anything dodgy.


I don't trust Aluminium forks, give me good ol steel ones anyday (531 for preference)


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## Accy cyclist (4 Dec 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I don't trust Aluminium forks, give me good ol steel ones anyday (531 for preference)




Would you trust carbon wheels and spokes though?


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I don't trust Aluminium forks, give me good ol steel ones anyday (531 for preference)


I don't want to worry you, but .... YIKES!


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## FrankCrank (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> There's something about carbon wheels and spokes that worries me. I'm going to get told i don't know what i'm on about, that may be true, but the thought of hurtling down a hill at say 40mph on a material that gives no warning of breakage and just snaps or shatters if hit the wrong way means that even if i could afford those wheels i'd rather go for the most expensive alloy wheels and spokes.



.....I heard if you run over an ant they shatter, same goes for CF forks. CF frames dissolve when it rains.........it's true I tells ya........


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## Accy cyclist (4 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....I heard if you run over an ant they shatter, same goes for CF forks. CF frames dissolve when it rains.........it's true I tells ya........







I'm off to bed now. The thought of all those things happening could give me nightmares!


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## FrankCrank (4 Dec 2015)

...reckon you'll need one of these to go with those wheels.....
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/11/30...s-floor-pump-into-the-ultimate-bottle-opener/






.....they cost 450 dollars. I personally wouldn't waste my money - waiting till they do one with a corkscrew.........


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## screenman (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> I wonder how these http://www.ubyk.co.uk/lightweight-meilenstein-obermayer-tubular-wheelset/14926 wheels would stand up to a pot holed journey everyday?




Quite well I imagine, but maybe commuting is not the idea behind them.


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## raleighnut (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> Would you trust carbon wheels and spokes though?


No


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## Hip Priest (4 Dec 2015)

screenman said:


> Quite well I imagine, but maybe commuting is not the idea behind them.



Alan Sugar could probably afford to stick a pair on one of his Pinarellos as a commuter hack.


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## bikeman66 (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes i know, but the thought of a spoke made from a few millimeters in width piece of carbon, holding a wheel in place scares me! I'm not that happy about carbon forks either.My carbon forks snapped when i was hit by that car in April. Carbon just isn't as strong as aluminium no matter what they say.  There are two things i always check before i go for a ride. One is making sure the wheel skewers are tight and locked in. The other is running my fingers over the forks, even sometimes inspecting them by torchlight to look for anything dodgy.


I think carbon is as strong as aluminium, it just doesn't have the impact resistance. A slightly bent alumium fork will likely be a snapped carbon fork. To be honest, I never give a moments thought to the possibility that my forks may snap. Yes, of course you hear of these kinds of failure, but I bet they make up the minutest percentage when considering the thousands of miles covered every day on bikes with carbon frames and forks...........and handlebars for that matter (which I had snap on me on a mountain bike years ago).


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## Dogtrousers (4 Dec 2015)

Like @ColinJ I'm not too bothered by other people's sense-to-money ratio. There are things that I spend money on that would most definitely be considered extravagant by many here. 

Anyway, are they not aimed at least in part at people who make money from cycling, to whom they are legitimate business expenses?


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## Dirk (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes i know, but the thought of a spoke made from a few millimeters in width piece of carbon, holding a wheel in place scares me! ..........


Spokes work in tension.
I believe the tensile strength of CF is greater than steel?


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## Poacher (4 Dec 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> 25g is about an ounce. They've saved an ounce at the cost of four grand. That's more expensive than cocaine.



Please PM me the contact details of your dealer!!!!


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## Dayvo (4 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....I heard if you run over an ant they shatter



And they shatter themselves milliseconds before they are run over.


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## Tim Hall (4 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> ...reckon you'll need one of these to go with those wheels.....
> http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/11/30...s-floor-pump-into-the-ultimate-bottle-opener/
> 
> 
> ...


Reading the blurb, the vanilla pump is 450 dollars. The bottle opener is another 30. More to the point, why does the beer bottle have a crown cap as well as a swing top?


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## vickster (4 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> You are talking about a man who spent 3 days semi-conscious with a pulse rate over 150 bpm, a swollen, throbbing red leg, barely able to breathe, contemplating whether he should send for a doctor ...
> 
> Yes - I'm a wee bit skint!


I don't really follow. Did you have to retire as a result ?


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## midliferider (4 Dec 2015)

If I am given a choice, I will chose more money over sense. The argument is that if I have money I do not need sense. Of course within limit.

But I enjoy my life even without lots of money, because I have sense.


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## Dogtrousers (4 Dec 2015)

vickster said:


> I don't really follow. Did you have to retire as a result ?


I think @ColinJ is recounting that anecdote to indicate how much sense he has (a sensible person would seek assistance immediately). And that he has less money than this.

HTH


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## Cuchilo (4 Dec 2015)

More money than sense would be to buy the wheels and use them to ride to work every day .


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## Dogtrousers (4 Dec 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> More money than sense would be to buy the wheels and use them to ride to work every day .


Or construct a cycling-themed party susan out of them.


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## Gravity Aided (4 Dec 2015)

Perhaps, if I were racing , the wheels would be worth it. But I'm not racing, so I'm not going to update. 1980's Campy for the tubulars, strong enough to support my now non-racing self. Once I get the Olmo repaired.


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## Markymark (4 Dec 2015)

Only an idiot spends on style over substance.

Sent from my iPhone.


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## TheJDog (4 Dec 2015)

Accy cyclist said:


> There's something about carbon wheels and spokes that worries me. I'm going to get told i don't know what i'm on about, that may be true, but the thought of hurtling down a hill at say 40mph on a material that gives no warning of breakage and just snaps or shatters if hit the wrong way means that even if i could afford those wheels i'd rather go for the most expensive alloy wheels and spokes.



An alloy spoke on your front wheel could snap without warning. That could be nasty.


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## Spoked Wheels (4 Dec 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Wheels are where its at ! My race wheels are worth more than the bike i put them on . In fact my training wheels are hand built and worth more than the bike i race on .
> I need a new race bike !


For you, light wheels, make sense, you weight next to nothing. When you see a heavy weight spending small fortunes on light wheels then "more money than sense" is applicable in my view.


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## outlash (4 Dec 2015)

TheJDog said:


> An alloy spoke on your front wheel could snap without warning. That could be nasty.



Or a tyre blowout, brake cable snapping, a pheasant running out from behind a hedgerow...


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## Shed_head (4 Dec 2015)

I hit a pot hole in the centre of the road a few weeks back doing 40MPH my carbon spoke wheels were fine, my carbon forks were fine however the bottom headset bearing feel to bits and nearly sent me in to the trees! I was also running lights and wearing a helmet.. No reflectors mind!!


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## screenman (4 Dec 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> More money than sense would be to buy the wheels and use them to ride to work every day .



But if that job paid you £10,000 a day, it would likely be less a % of days wages to wheels than what you are paying out.


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## screenman (4 Dec 2015)

I am not buying carbon until they start making stunt planes and Formula 1 cars out of the stuff.


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2015)

vickster said:


> I don't really follow. Did you have to retire as a result ?


Er, no ... You suggested that I must be more sensible than the average man so I demonstrated that I actually have _less_ sense than the average man. The only reason that I have a good sense-to-money ratio is that I have even less money!


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## ColinJ (4 Dec 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think @ColinJ is recounting that anecdote to indicate how much sense he has (a sensible person would seek assistance immediately). And that he has less money than this.
> 
> HTH


Er, yes, that's it! 

I replied to vickster just now before I saw that you had explained it for me ...:


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## Cuchilo (4 Dec 2015)

screenman said:


> But if that job paid you £10,000 a day, it would likely be less a % of days wages to wheels than what you are paying out.


It wouldn't make and odds as its just not practical . The link i looked at where tubs and personally i would only buy them as racing wheels . Even if they where clinchers i would want the tyres to be in top condition for race days . It doesn't matter what price point they are , my race wheels are just that and i know they are in good order because i only race on them .


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## screenman (4 Dec 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> It wouldn't make and odds as its just not practical . The link i looked at where tubs and personally i would only buy them as racing wheels . Even if they where clinchers i would want the tyres to be in top condition for race days . It doesn't matter what price point they are , my race wheels are just that and i know they are in good order because i only race on them .



Why are they not practical? I know many people who commuted on tubs for years, I did myself once.


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## Colin S (4 Dec 2015)

Most people on her will probably do 30 to 40 mph downhill in lycra.!!
Don't think we need to overthink the carbon forks / wheels issues when the road are in the state they are.

Forks are stronger than you think and does anyone know of an actual wheel failure?


C


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## Andrew_P (4 Dec 2015)

Spoked Wheels said:


> For you, light wheels, make sense, you weight next to nothing. When you see a heavy weight spending small fortunes on light wheels then "more money than sense" is applicable in my view.


You can apply the same view to most things in life I don't because what a person does with their money is their own business. Not in my psyche to think someone lacks sense or is stupid because they want to buy something expensive because they like it even if they think it will improve their cycling in someway who is to say it won't as long as they are happy with it good luck to them. 

I will put my hands up I have commuted on £800 wheels. In fact my new winter hack wasn't a hack at all. And I am, wait for it 1.5 stone overweight. OK so I am burke but you get the picture :-)


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## jonny jeez (4 Dec 2015)

blazed said:


> They're for people who can afford them. It's not only wealthy people who spend £4k on wheels, a lot of people on average salaries spend huge amounts of money on their hobbies. I've never got the term more money than sense, people with lots of money usually have lots of sense as that is how they accumulated their wealth. It's more likely poor people who lack sense.


Never judge a person by their bank balance


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## Cuchilo (4 Dec 2015)

screenman said:


> Why are they not practical? I know many people who commuted on tubs for years, I did myself once.


I would and do , but i wouldn't use my race wheels and tyres to ride to work . They are for racing and i know what condition they are in . Having to worry about the state of your wheels and tyres before a race is not something i want to worry about so its not practical .


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## steveindenmark (4 Dec 2015)

screenman said:


> They must have something going for them if they can afford thst much.
> 
> Just because somebody spends money on something I could not justify does not in my mind make them fools.



Ive just bought a Koga Carbon road bike which I can afford but could not justify to someone if I needed to. Fortunately, I dont have to justify my purchases, not even to Jannie.


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## Spoked Wheels (4 Dec 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> You can apply the same view to most things in life I don't because what a person does with their money is their own business. Not in my psyche to think someone lacks sense or is stupid because they want to buy something expensive because they like it even if they think it will improve their cycling in someway who is to say it won't as long as they are happy with it good luck to them.
> 
> I will put my hands up I have commuted on £800 wheels. In fact my new winter hack wasn't a hack at all. And I am, wait for it 1.5 stone overweight. OK so I am burke but you get the picture :-)



1.5 stone overweight would not shock me at all but those people that are 3 or 4 stone overweight not accepting the weight of an extra 4 spokes because they don't want the extra weight. They are happy to pay more for something that is light and in full knowledge that the wheels they are getting would never last the mileage they were built for, rather that loosing 25g of their own body weight.


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## screenman (5 Dec 2015)

Maybe they are happy to buy something because they can. Seems a bit of green eyed monster is often going on when we talk of more expensive products.


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## Crandoggler (5 Dec 2015)

Spoked Wheels said:


> 1.5 stone overweight would not shock me at all but those people that are 3 or 4 stone overweight not accepting the weight of an extra 4 spokes because they don't want the extra weight. They are happy to pay more for something that is light and in full knowledge that the wheels they are getting would never last the mileage they were built for, rather that loosing 25g of their own body weight.


 I agree.

But who is to say they shouldn't critisize that weight? When and if they have the money, does it matter? Surely that's the beauty of spending that money. The fact that in your eyes, you're buying the pinnacle of cycling technology, a 25g weigh saving or not.

I also don't really think that because someone, in your eyes is overweight, makes them a slow rider. I, and many people I know are considered overweight. We're obviously not race fast, but as general cyclists, we're not maxing out at 15mph either.


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## Tin Pot (5 Dec 2015)

I would love to have more money than sense, given that I am a genius.




screenman said:


> I am not buying carbon until they start making stunt planes and Formula 1 cars out of the stuff.



...Because your pedal power is over 1000hp and you spend more time off the tarmac than on?


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## blazed (5 Dec 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Ive just bought a Koga Carbon road bike which I can afford but could not justify to someone if I needed to. Fortunately, I dont have to justify my purchases, not even to Jannie.


Who is Jannie?


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## ColinJ (5 Dec 2015)

blazed said:


> Who is Jannie?


If I had to make a guess, I'd suggest that she is someone who lives in Denmark ....


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## blazed (5 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> If I had to make a guess, I'd suggest that she is someone who lives in Denmark ....



The way he includes her first name makes me think we are all supposed to know who she is. Usually people just say my wife or my girlfriend.


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## nickyboy (5 Dec 2015)

Of course for the vast majority of the world's population, buying a bike for £100 would be firmly in the "more money than sense" camp

Everything in life is relative


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## Tin Pot (5 Dec 2015)

Philosophers play with the word, like a child with a doll.... It does not mean that everything in life is relative.
*Albert Einstein*


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## HLaB (5 Dec 2015)

Speaking of 'more money and sense'. I was at a cycle show the other week and the salesman tells me they have sold two of these $50,000 black bikes (apparently it got a diamond encrusted gold plate headtube); I much prefer the camouflage model behind which is a mere $10,000


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## Spoked Wheels (5 Dec 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> I also don't really think that because someone, in your eyes is overweight, makes them a slow rider. I, and many people I know are considered overweight. We're obviously not race fast, but as general cyclists, we're not maxing out at 15mph either.



Of course not. There is a guy in my club that is pretty big and yet super fast, He rides in the fast group and he must be over 45 years old and at a guess over 18 stone. Somebody told me this guy used to be a pro and that would make sense. That's all I know about him but if I saw him with a £10k bike I'd think he'll make the most of that bike,

On the other hand I know another guy that bought a nice bike, not a super duper bike but still a £2000 bike.... as far as I know he's never done a ride longer than 10 miles. I was at his house once when he had a go at his eldest child because he was kicking a ball with his school shoes. Basically he just bought the bike to show off.

As far as wheels are concerned I've seen people spend £800+ on wheels against my advice, only to realise just a few months later that they made a mistake.... they don't feel safe riding the wheels and they go and buy something more suitable. To me that is more money than sense in the first place.

One thing for sure, people rarely admit they got more money than sense..... they would only admit "I got the money and I do what I like with it" which is also very true. Both aren't mutually exclusive


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## mattobrien (5 Dec 2015)

I have just asked LBS to set a side the two Enve bottle cages they have in stock for me. These will replace my two Arundle mandible cages that I have got in the bike. 

They are lighter and match my wheels, clearly that makes a lot of sense


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## bpsmith (5 Dec 2015)

Cracks me up how much opinion and resentment there is in amateur cycling. Buy what you like. £100 or £10,000. What does it matter to anyone else?


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## steveindenmark (6 Dec 2015)

blazed said:


> The way he includes her first name makes me think we are all supposed to know who she is. Usually people just say my wife or my girlfriend.



As I have been on here for years and have posted photos, videos and dozens of posts of about the trips we have had and the kit and bikes Jannie and I have bought, a lot of people on here have heard the name Jannie before. It is not a very common name in the UK.

Even if you have never heard of her, the context in which she was mentioned does not make it difficult to work out who she might be. I dont say my wife or girlfriend, I always mention her by name. It has never been a problem in the past.


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## Illaveago (6 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....I heard if you run over an ant they shatter, same goes for CF forks. CF frames dissolve when it rains.........it's true I tells ya........


Carbon fibre can be very strong if done correctly, some of the old Sherpa vans leaf springs were made of it. The trouble with it though is that it can shatter on impact and can be very sharp.


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## Gravity Aided (6 Dec 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> As I have been on here for years and have posted photos, videos and dozens of posts of about the trips we have had and the kit and bikes Jannie and I have bought, a lot of people on here have heard the name Jannie before. It is not a very common name in the UK.
> 
> Even if you have never heard of her, the context in which she was mentioned does not make it difficult to work out who she might be. I dont say my wife or girlfriend, I always mention her by name. It has never been a problem in the past.


Speaking of Denmark, @steveindenmark , do you often run across people who buy more boat than they are capable of handling? I ran into that quite often, back when I lived near the water. Boat envy, especially sailboat envy, seemed indemic.


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## steveindenmark (6 Dec 2015)

Gravity Aided said:


> Speaking of Denmark, @steveindenmark , do you often run across people who buy more boat than they are capable of handling? I ran into that quite often, back when I lived near the water. Boat envy, especially sailboat envy, seemed .



GA. Funny you say that. Im a sailmaker but have too many things on the go to get time to sail in the summer. A couple of years ago I found a Sunflower Jolle in Belgium and bought it home with me. I have yet to get it in the water. So I could be one of those people you are talking about.


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## Gravity Aided (6 Dec 2015)

I have my serious doubts about that there. You're just busy. I may have been in the same situation, I almost bought an Aquarius 40 footer or thereabouts last year, though I live now 40 miles from an appreciable body of water, and have no property on which to store or maintain the boat.( I do have seagulls on a pond just north of me. They mock me when I pass on the bike.) While I could handle that boat quite well, it would be quite well beyond my ability to make it a sensible proposition, like myself on carbon wheels. But you're a sailmaker, live near the water, and had the good sense to buy a Sunflower Yolle. I still keep my eyes open for a Mayflower, which may be a bit more sensible for me.


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## simongt (6 Dec 2015)

A few years ago I was reading a cycling mag and on the back was an advert for Airborne road bikes averaging about £1k each. A pal who looked at the advert said that it's each to their own, as a pal of his who is a musician had just shelled out £1500 on a new saxaphone. And THAT is exactly the point which is relevant - !


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## djmc (7 Dec 2015)

The point made about sailing is very apposite about cycling. Very technical equipment is totally unsuited to those who lack the experience and skill to use it. One should ask oneself - can I use it, do I have the skill. I can drive, but wouldn't dream of driving a F1 racing car. Then one should ask - even if I could use it, would it function any better for what I want to use it for. Even if I do race it is not given that really expensive wheels would be any better for me, and if I don't race they would have no advantage whatsoever. The point made by Simongt about the cost of saxophones just shows that some things particularly things made by hand are expensive. Stringed instruments (a Stradivarius violin for instance) can have an astronomic value, but I would imagine that all musical instruments have a quite significant cost.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Dec 2015)

Alternatively one could ask: Do I want it? Can I afford it?. If yes to both then buy it, and nuts to what other people think one should do. 

Some hobbies can be money pits, but we are all free to make our own decisions. 

I have spent far more (both money and time) than is logically sensible on my heavy old Dawes. A purely utilitarian view would have had it in the tip long ago.


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## Smokin Joe (8 Dec 2015)

It's my money and I'll spend it how I please has always been my philosophy.


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## Racing roadkill (9 Dec 2015)

If there is a demand for overpriced bits of fancy gear, with a pretty label on it, then people will supply it. I can see why a small performance advantage would be worth the price, for a pro / pro team, but I fear a lot of this type of kit will end up on the bike of someone who is just trying to wave the William.


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## subaqua (9 Dec 2015)

blazed said:


> They're for people who can afford them. It's not only wealthy people who spend £4k on wheels, a lot of people on average salaries spend huge amounts of money on their hobbies. I've never got the term more money than sense, people with lots of money usually have lots of sense as that is how they accumulated their wealth. It's more likely poor people who lack sense.




Donald Trump the exception to your rule then ?

oh and all the other chinless wonders who struggle with common sense but inherited massive amounts of money .


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## 123456789 (9 Dec 2015)

Fri night Pub, Club, kebab then Taxi Home. £50
Sat night Pub, Club, KFC then Taxi Home £45

48 weeks of the year = £4,560

And what do you have to show for it at the end of the year a big belly and most likely a STD

Buy a £4,500 wheel set you will most likely be quite fit as you are into your riding may try your hand at racing therefore will become super fit, likely have a very flat belly and have a set of wheels at the end of year (providing they don't shatter into a million pieces or dissolve in the rain). I'm not sure on the STD

What one really makes more sense?

EDIT: I suppose it all depends on what value you place on your hobby be that drinking, cycling or any other hobby


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## Dogtrousers (9 Dec 2015)

123456789 said:


> Fri night Pub, Club, kebab then Taxi Home. £50
> Sat night Pub, Club, KFC then Taxi Home £45
> 
> 48 weeks of the year = £4,560
> ...


 What provides the STD? KFC or Kebab? 
This reminds me of some lines, the source of which escapes me:
I've got piles / Me mate's got crabs / And we blame it all / On doner kebabs.


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## 123456789 (9 Dec 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> What provides the STD?


 
I didn't think I'd ever get the chance to have a birds and the bees chat on cyclechat. Ok then when you travel home in a taxi and you drop chilli sauce into your lap after hitting a pothole that burning sensation you get afterwards well.......


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## Gravity Aided (9 Dec 2015)

subaqua said:


> Donald Trump the exception to your rule then ?
> 
> oh and all the other chinless wonders who struggle with common sense but inherited massive amounts of money .


Donald trump, in his book, always kind of left me with the impression his father lost all of his money, but I guess not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump


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## subaqua (9 Dec 2015)

123456789 said:


> Fri night Pub, Club, kebab then Taxi Home. £50
> Sat night Pub, Club, KFC then Taxi Home £45
> 
> 48 weeks of the year = £4,560
> ...



wheels aint much good without the rest of the bike tho. 

and riding a £4k wheeled bike isn't going to make me any fitter than riding a £400 wheel bike is it . 

I baulked at paying £60 for a new front wheel from Rose last week. ( who were excellent in terms of communication, cost and speed of delivery. 

I baulk at paying for anything to be honest , including scuba gear. 

sure spend what you want on what you want , but please dont make out its going to make you any better than anybody else


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## 123456789 (9 Dec 2015)

subaqua said:


> wheels aint much good without the rest of the bike tho.
> 
> and riding a £4k wheeled bike isn't going to make me any fitter than riding a £400 wheel bike is it .
> 
> ...



I think you've completely missed my point. I was comparing going out on the P155 each weekend against the cost of wheels. One would make more sense to me value wise rather than the other. In actuality I wouldn't spend that on either. I would not spend 4.5k on wheels, in fact I wouldn't spend half that amount on a complete bike but each to their own if someone wants to spend £50 quid on their bike great if someone want to spend £5,000 great I will begrudge neither person. I agree with you that someone having the money to spend on top end kit does not automatically make them better than anyone else apologies if my post came across that way it wasn't meant to as I cannot abide snobbery likewise inverse snobbery. As regards fitness I think it safe to say that any pro racer would whoop our arses on a £250 bike even if we were on a bike made of unobtanium that cost 200 x as much.


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## Globalti (9 Dec 2015)

Late to the discussion as usual.... I was too busy banking this month's salary....

My attitude to cycling is that it's my one and only expense and, since I don't have enough free time to go away for weekends climbing or mountaineering as I used to in my batchelor days, cycling is my only source of exercise and enjoyment. I don't often go drinking or clubbing or to theatre or cinema or concerts and I spend very little on clothes. So I'm prepared to spend up to £2,500 on a bike in the knowledge that it will be light and will ride well and handle nicely and give me enjoyment. 

My current wheels are a set of Mavic Ksyrium SLs that I got almost new from somebody on Cycle Chat for £500 and they have repaid the money many times over by being fast, light, reliable and stiff for around four years. I don't think a set of £5000 carbon wheels would give me much more enjoyment; probably less because I'd be worrying about them all the time.


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## Milkfloat (9 Dec 2015)

My hope is that more and more people spend vast amounts on their bikes. That way I don't get disheartened when being overtaken by a BSO and there is a good market for second hand bikes/spares that I can tap into.


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## bpsmith (9 Dec 2015)

I am with @Globalti on this one. Pretty the same reasoning. In saying that, I did stop myself buying a bargain of a Propel with 40% off last week. Started out looking at wheels and the deal came up. Almost did it, but reigned myself in at last minute. Weird, as can afford it and it was a real bargain. Couldn't have liked it enough it seems. Real reason is that I love my Bianchi too much, so grabbed a deal on the FFWD wheels I saw.


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## screenman (9 Dec 2015)

My swimming partner retired when he was 49 which is 13 years ago, he has on average 3 long haul holidays a year each costing £6000 plus, is he wasting his money. I do not think so as he can easily afford it.


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## Globalti (9 Dec 2015)

Hot place holidays don't hold much allure for me because my job takes me to Africa four times a year and I don't fancy paying to sweat. If I do spend money on a holiday it's to go skiing in France or climbing in Scotland.


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## gavintc (9 Dec 2015)

bpsmith said:


> Cracks me up how much opinion and resentment there is in amateur cycling. Buy what you like. £100 or £10,000. What does it matter to anyone else?


I completely agree. It is what makes cyclechat unpleasant. The inverse snobbery is quite unnecessary, but really annoying. I wonder if some people have issues.


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## bpsmith (9 Dec 2015)

gavintc said:


> I completely agree. It is what makes cyclechat unpleasant. The inverse snobbery is quite unnecessary, but really annoying. I wonder if some people have issues.


Inverse snobbery is rife on here. It outweighs snobbery considerably. I really don't get it tbh.


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## Apollonius (10 Dec 2015)

A guy I knew died with the best part of half a million in the bank. Now that is what I call a waste of money!


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## huwsparky (10 Dec 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Only an idiot spends on style over substance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone.


Very clever...


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## Brian Stacks (10 Dec 2015)

It's only worth it if you need it. If you are competing at the top level and require to cut off a fraction of time over a fifty mile ride all well and good. But as a fashion accessory this would be ott


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## bpsmith (10 Dec 2015)

Then those competing at top level will be the only ones riding a bike other than your typical BSO?

None of us Need anything more than your big standard bike. That's fact, no question about it. We would all live in huts that provide just enough warmth, shelter and security and would only earn enough money to simply exist.

Everything above this is a want, and this is what makes us human, surely.

Personally I think everything is relative. If you earn £20,000 a year and spend £200 on a pair of wheels, then it's no different to earning £200,000 and spending £2,000 on said wheels. In fact, I wouldn't go as far as it being linear. Once you have covered you monthly bills, the percentage of disposable income is probably hugely bigger when earning £200,000 than it is at the £20,000 level.

It all boils down to a simple set of rules.

Do I need it?
Can I afford it?

Will I use it?
Would I sacrifice something different for it?

2 Yes answers to the first set of questions means I don't ask the second set of questions. Similarly with 2 No answers.

1 Yes and 1 No results in me moving to the second set.

The second questions are sequential. 2 Yes'es and it's a done deal. A No on either stops me dead. The last one is where I usually agonise. 

Value for money doesn't always factor for me, where 4 Yes answers come in. Desirability can outrank value, as we all know. The only thing I always have to do is to shop around, in order to get the best possibly price at the time!

If you want something, that you can afford after working hard, and that doesn't harm anyone else in the process, then who cares whether it's value for money? Moreso, who cares whether someone else thinks it's a waste of money?


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## Justinslow (11 Dec 2015)

I bought a £400 bike from Argos as many will know on here. Great bike, serves its purpose well, but here's the rub, I've upgraded parts over the last year and it's now a £800+ bike (spending not worth). 
Not wanting to be a complete tight wad I've just bought myself a secondhand TT bike, probably around £1100 all in.
Still the cheaper end of the market but that's more than I ever thought I'd spend on a bike. 
I've never encountered any snobbery of any kind either way in the real world, not one person has ever said anything derogatory regarding the Argos bike and I've not known anyone to say anything derogatory about expensive bikes, some of the guys I do TT's with have one wheel more expensive than my whole TT bike let alone the rest of their bike, if they want it and have the ability to buy the stuff then fair play, makes it even sweeter if I can beat them .


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## huwsparky (11 Dec 2015)

Justinslow said:


> I bought a £400 bike from Argos as many will know on here. Great bike, serves its purpose well, but here's the rub, I've upgraded parts over the last year and it's now a £800+ bike (spending not worth).
> Not wanting to be a complete tight wad I've just bought myself a secondhand TT bike, probably around £1100 all in.
> Still the cheaper end of the market but that's more than I ever thought I'd spend on a bike.
> I've never encountered any snobbery of any kind either way in the real world, not one person has ever said anything derogatory regarding the Argos bike and I've not known anyone to say anything derogatory about expensive bikes, some of the guys I do TT's with have one wheel more expensive than my whole TT bike let alone the rest of their bike, if they want it and have the ability to buy the stuff then fair play, makes it even sweeter if I can beat them .


Hard work and ability will prevail every time. The best cyclists I know don't have expensive bikes (relative).


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## FrankCrank (12 Dec 2015)

.....talking of expensive cycling stuff, whenever I see cycling glasses they're always crazy high prices. I use safety glasses from the DIY shop, tinted and clear, at about 3 quid a pair. Damn good quality as well. Are cyclists being unfairly fleeced by unscrupulous marketing racketeers I'm wondering.........


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## screenman (12 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....talking of expensive cycling stuff, whenever I see cycling glasses they're always crazy high prices. I use safety glasses from the DIY shop, tinted and clear, at about 3 quid a pair. Damn good quality as well. Are cyclists being unfairly fleeced by unscrupulous marketing racketeers I'm wondering.........



No.


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## Justinslow (12 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....talking of expensive cycling stuff, whenever I see cycling glasses they're always crazy high prices. I use safety glasses from the DIY shop, tinted and clear, at about 3 quid a pair. Damn good quality as well. Are cyclists being unfairly fleeced by unscrupulous marketing racketeers I'm wondering.........


I use dewalt safety glasses, around a tenner........ 
I do have Oakleys but find the wind gets up underneath and makes my eyes water.


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## Justinslow (12 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> .....talking of expensive cycling stuff, whenever I see cycling glasses they're always crazy high prices. I use safety glasses from the DIY shop, tinted and clear, at about 3 quid a pair. Damn good quality as well. Are cyclists being unfairly fleeced by unscrupulous marketing racketeers I'm wondering.........


I think the glossy magazines tend to push all the expensive stuff generally. When I got my bike just over a year ago I went to clipless pedals and bought a cheap pair of shoes (£25), they've been fine, don't think I've ever seen a really "cheap" pair of shoes reviewed in a mag yet.
https://www.merlincycles.com/rexton-road-cycling-shoes-62860.html


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## Crandoggler (12 Dec 2015)

£3.99 from decathlon for glasses. You look like a bellend in 'sports' glasses anyway, so why pay more.


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