# MTB Etiquette



## Bromptonaut (4 May 2011)

Rode the 'Adventure trail' at Sheerwood Pines this weekend. Graded blue, whatever that means, about as much technical stuff as I'd want to tackle on my old CB Ravanna. I was with family and most other users were in similar groups. There is a more testing XC (red) trail for the hard cases. Thoroughly enjoyable except for moment on a narrow section where there's a sudden whoosh and I'm passed with inches to spare by another cyclist moving at warp factor 6. No warning at all and If I'd wobbled we'd both have been off.

What's the MTB etiquette on approaching from behind and overtaking - I'd have at least liked a shout and preferrably some adjustment of line or pace.


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## Rouge Penguin (4 May 2011)

Go faster? Wink 

If he passed you a lot faster, then were you having a nice calm ride on a fast section? Courtesy says he should have slowed and shouted, but might not care if he's a regular and was being slowed up


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## Globalti (4 May 2011)

He was showing off. He's a dickhead.


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## Silver Fox (4 May 2011)

A shout from behind, "passing on your right / left" is the usual script. Combine this with sufficient space and reduction of speed and all should be happy.

Of course slower riders, particularly on singletrack should be mindful of other cyclists approaching from the rear and move over when safe to do so.


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## MacB (4 May 2011)

some riders are dicks, on or offroad, fast or slow but I do wonder if there's some form of correlation between this and the cars they drive. Maybe the fast dicks drive BMWs or various other phallic substitutes, while the slow dicks will be your volvo drivers....though with MTBing there may be a few white van men thrown in there.


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## ChristinaJL (4 May 2011)

Some riders on trails have no clue. Very rarely do any of them call out when passing, one prat squeezed past me on a singletrack section with railing either side as I'd slowed down to approach the fire road. He knocked me with his elbow sideways and if the railing hadn't have been there I'd have been on the deck.  My husband who was a way back from me had even warned them I was up ahead as they tore past him. Today a muppet nearly took me out cycling out of control downhill the wrong way on a one-way single track.  

I did a mountain biking course a month or so ago and the instructor said if you're in front you have right of way and even the faster cyclists should ask to pass. I always pull over if someone comes up behind if there is room.


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## Globalti (4 May 2011)

To be honest one of the several reasons why I was growing stale with mountain biking was the whole "popularisation" of this branch of cycling; I came across groups of blokes at trail centres who I just didn't recognise as "mountain" or "bikers". The whole scene seemed to revolve around blasting downhill as fast as possible on the most bling bikes while wearing the identikit gear and looking rugged then heading for the pub. Call me elitist if you like but I came into mountain biking from 25 years of mountaineering, which is a sport conducted as modestly and discretely as possible.


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## ChristinaJL (4 May 2011)

Globalti said:


> He was showing off. He's a dickhead.



I had one idiot scream past me on a downhill section a bit out of control, but I cycled straight past him on the uphill section calling out "bike coming through on your right" very loudly at him with a smile on my face.


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## ChristinaJL (4 May 2011)

Globalti said:


> To be honest one of the several reasons why I was growing stale with mountain biking was the whole "popularisation" of this branch of cycling; I came across groups of blokes at trail centres who I just didn't recognise as "mountain" or "bikers". The whole scene seemed to revolve around blasting downhill as fast as possible on the most bling bikes while wearing the identikit gear and looking rugged then heading for the pub. Call me elitist if you like but I came into mountain biking from 25 years of mountaineering, which is a sport conducted as modestly and discretely as possible.



Oh yeah, I saw a group of those out today at our local mountain bike centre. I too am from a mountaineering background and believe you should at least be in control of your bike on the downhill sections before hitting the trails. I did a course which was great fun and taught me not just control but mtb etiquette.


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## Muddy Ground (4 May 2011)

As above really; avoid trail centres and you encounter a much nicer class of MTB'er [wink, wink]. Personally? Wait to pass until they've acknowledged you. Doesn't hurt to be polite. 

www.muddyground.blogspot.com


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## Zoiders (4 May 2011)

You will get knobbers on the trails just like you get them on the roads, I can however see some unpleasant class snobbery creeping into this thread.

In defence of the rider that passed you (cleanly, quickly and without hitting you I might add) - he wasn't expecting to find a family ride on a red route, sorry but most purpose built single track trails state that they are not suitable for family and beginner rides, Follow The Dog on the Chase is sign posted the same way.

It's a hard one trying to find a balance between enjoyment and challenge while not being a danger to other users. Myself and the guys I ride with are not in the habit of doing high speed fly pasts on walkers and leisure riders, we do purposely avoid some of the more obvious trails and busy times like saturday afternoon, often prefering night rides for the simple reason that the trails become ever so clogged with groups who shouldn't really be leaving the fire roads or blue routes, it rapidly turns into trail center golf on bikes with people queing up and waiting to "play through".

Yes you are going to get the weekend warriors who hare about being a pain in the arse for other riders but outside of the downhill routes they are not such a problem as you can leave them for dead on the single track, if however you are after the contemplative and studious atmosphere of climbing then you are in to the wrong passtime - mountain biking did not start life as the preserve of the beard wranglers with Ray Mears socks and sandals, it started life as a gravity sport and the earliest bikes were built/cobbled together to improve the speed of fire road descents.

What you also have to remember that like with surfing you are going to get guys who live locally and use those trails a lot, I am not saying that it's a case of "locals rule!" or anything like that but they generaly know what they are doing and are very unlikely to hit you if they zip past on a bit of twisty trail. As for "white vans"...well any transport is better than none and vans work really well for stuff like mountain biking - it's not to do with the "wrong sort" using the trails.


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## Muddy Ground (4 May 2011)

Guess without having been there it's difficult to comment? Generally the faster riders are working to a different mental attitude; they've tuned into the speed and can guess where you'll be within the next half a second. If you're ambling along, then so is your mind and anything faster would seem reckless even though it was obviously perectly safe in hindsight. Some of these guys have bike skills like you wouldn't believe. A close call to you may have been a mile to them. 

Also, as pointed out, mountain biking is classified as a dangerous sport after all. I'm not saying reckless or deliberately endangering to others, but people are out there to push personal boundaries - one can imagine if the trails had been, for want of a better word or phrase, hijacked by families then after saying polite hellos to a few dozen people and possibly been ignored, perhaps this person had gone beyond being reasonable and was trying to reclaim what was seen as theirs? Hate to say it, but after using the trails all winter and then seeing people coming out to enjoy the sun for a few weekends, a bit of possessiveness and resentment does creep in..... Seems that perhaps this other person was marking their territory.

Dunno. Sounds a bit 50/50 to me really - perhaps the other person may care to comment? Without the contra viewpoint we're going to go around in circles here.

White van? Would love one for the MTB; that or a classic Chevy pick-up. My daily driver is a £500 eBay special; would rather spend money on a bike than a car. But is that some kind of inverse sbobbery I've got going?

www.muddyground.blogspot.com


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## Norm (4 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> In defence of the rider that passed you (cleanly, quickly and without hitting you I might add) - he wasn't expecting to find a family ride on a red route, sorry but most purpose built single track trails state that they are not suitable for family and beginner rides, Follow The Dog on the Chase is sign posted the same way.
> 
> It's a hard one trying to find a balance between enjoyment and challenge while not being a danger to other users.


I kinda agree with Zoiders here, but with an addendum.

If you are travelling on a route which is above your usual standard, there should be no problem with that but you need to be aware that there will be faster guys about.

That doesn't mean that I think buzzing others with a close pass is ever acceptable, though. However frustrating you might find it when driving and you come up behind a cyclist, there is no excuse to barge past. Oops, sorry, however frustrating you might find it when MTBing and you come up behind someone slower, there is no excuse to barge past. (see what I did there?  )


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## henshaw11 (4 May 2011)

While it sounds like the bloke may been a bit of a dick for not slowing, calling out can have the unintended result of whoever's in front actually moving into, rather than out of, the way - so scooting past quickly might have made more sense from his perspective. The seemingly too fast/too close pass has a parallel with motorcyclists overtaking cars.

I wonder if there's an 'oops, I almost ran into a bunch of people on the trail' thread somewhere


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## Zoiders (4 May 2011)

Norm said:


> I kinda agree with Zoiders here, but with an addendum.
> 
> If you are travelling on a route which is above your usual standard, there should be no problem with that but you need to be aware that there will be faster guys about.
> 
> That doesn't mean that I think buzzing others with a close pass is ever acceptable, though. However frustrating you might find it when driving and you come up behind a cyclist, there is no excuse to barge past. Oops, sorry, however frustrating you might find it when MTBing and you come up behind someone slower, there is no excuse to barge past. (see what I did there?  )


It's not the public highway and it's not a car, groups that storm through and refuse to stop - expecting you to get out of the way - fair enough they are goons but if you can pass quickly without making a fuss then do so. The trails I use are also frequented by horse riders as well, most horses being mental at the best of times so shouting is out.

Sometimes trying to hail groups of more sedate riders causes more problems than it solves as they panic and mill about like frightened sheep. Ooops, sorry, however frustrating you might find it that you can't use every trail for family or beginner rides you still need to read the advisory signs at the start of routes to get an idea of the level and pace of riding you will find on them.


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## ChristinaJL (4 May 2011)

I always think just because a rider is a bit slower it does not mean they are a worse rider, especially if the faster rider appears out of control then wobbles drastically 10m in front of me.


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## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> In defence of the rider that passed you (cleanly, quickly and without hitting you I might add) - he wasn't expecting to find a family ride on a red route, sorry but most purpose built single track trails state that they are not suitable for family and beginner rides, Follow The Dog on the Chase is sign posted the same way.
> 
> It's a hard one trying to find a balance between enjoyment and challenge while not being a danger to other users.



Zoiders and Norm unless you know more than what the OP wrote, it seems clear him and his family were riding on a blue, not red route. In particular he said he was on the Adventure Trail, the Forestry Commission says "the Adventrue Cycle route accommodates those looking to spend a morning or afternoon meandering through the forest at a leisurely pace".

If a decision between one's enjoyment and a danger to other users can result in one's enjoyment winning out in this case, one probably should go and see a psychiatrist.


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## Zoiders (4 May 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Zoiders and Norm unless you know more than what the OP wrote, it seems clear him and his family were riding on a blue, not red route. In particular he said he was on the Adventure Trail, the Forestry Commission says "the Adventrue Cycle route accommodates those looking to spend a morning or afternoon meandering through the forest at a leisurely pace".
> 
> If a decision between one's enjoyment and a danger to other users can result in one's enjoyment winning out in this case, one probably should go and see a psychiatrist.


I have seen this in other boards.

Mental health digs/smears are a really crap way of behaving in a thread, right up there with racism and sexism. Can we not see them in this board please as it's getting tired, save it for politics where you all agree to be nasty to each other.


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## ChristinaJL (4 May 2011)

What worries me sometimes about our local centre is that the black/red, blue and green all run a distance along the same part of the trail back to the car park and some riders just don't adjust their speed on sections which children ride. If a ride is designed for families then other riders should be considerate, shame some aren't.  Luckily the majority are, but there are always the odd one or two.


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## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> I have seen this in other boards.
> 
> Mental health digs/smears are a really crap way of behaving in a thread, right up there with racism and sexism. Can we not see them in this board please as it's getting tired, save it for politics where you all agree to be nasty to each other.



I am amazed that you seem to be taking it personally. I would have thought it is clear my post is referring to the rider if he did make such a decision (which he probably did).


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## Norm (4 May 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Zoiders and Norm unless you know more than what the OP wrote, it seems clear him and his family were riding on a blue, not red route.


If that's the case, then I did misunderstand the particular circumstances as the previous sentence was "_There is a more testing XC (red) trail for the hard cases_".

It doesn't change what I wrote, though, which included (in case you missed it) "_That doesn't mean that I think buzzing others with a close pass is ever acceptable_".


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## Zoiders (4 May 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> I am amazed that you seem to be taking it personally. I would have thought it is clear my post is referring to the rider if he did make such a decision (which he probably did).


Just pack it in.


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## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2011)

Norm said:


> If that's the case, then I did misunderstand the particular circumstances as the previous sentence was "_There is a more testing XC (red) trail for the hard cases_".
> 
> *It doesn't change what I wrote, though, which included (in case you missed it) "That doesn't mean that I think buzzing others with a close pass is ever acceptable".
> *



I did notice that and I agree.


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## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Just pack it in.



Why?


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

+1


Globalti said:


> He was showing off. He's a dickhead.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

My understanding is a shout saying passing on left or right is the correct approach. Some people will push past and others will stay behind you. Don't be put off by the minority of ignorant a-holes.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

Is this for real or some kind of in joke. I have MH issues and I find the offshoot post funny.


Zoiders said:


> Just pack it in.


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## Zoiders (4 May 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Why?


Google whatever you like and be a pedant, we don't care.

But keep your nasty little comments and then the obtuse denials to yourself, it's simply not the place to be looking to get a rise from people.

It's not the politics board.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

Who is the WE in that statement?


Zoiders said:


> Google whatever you like and be a pedant, we don't care.
> 
> But keep your nasty little comments and then the obtuse denials to yourself, it's simply not the place to be looking to get a rise from people.
> 
> It's not the politics board.


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## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Google whatever you like and be a pedant, we don't care.
> 
> But keep your nasty little comments and then the obtuse denials to yourself, it's simply not the place to be looking to get a rise from people.
> 
> It's not the politics board.



I have trouble seeing how stating the opinions I have, possibly clarifying the OP's circumstance in the face of potential misunderstandings, and supporting the OP and his family's rights not to be terrorised by irresponsible, selfish riders in a family orientated Trail should attract your comments above against me.

This is off topic but it seems to me your comments are also denigrating the Politics board and its particpants - I regularly read and appreciate many excellent, measured arguments there by participants from whom I learn a lot.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

+1


RecordAceFromNew said:


> I have trouble seeing how stating the opinions I have, possibly clarifying the OP's circumstance in the face of potential misunderstandings, and supporting the OP and his family's rights not to be terrorised by irresponsible, selfish riders in a family orientated Trail should attract your comments above against me.
> 
> This is off topic but it seems to me your comments are also denigrating the Politics board and its particpants - I regularly read and appreciate many excellent, measured arguments there by participants from whom I learn a lot.


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## steveinnorthants (4 May 2011)

Zoiders, not sure why you are getting so wound up.....it's clear to me that your original comment was posted without reading the original post properly.....as has been pointed out, he was riding a blue route and from the earlier comments/description, should expect some courtesy from other riders, given it is not aimed at hardcore go as fast as I can types.
Suggest you re-read the thread!


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## henshaw11 (4 May 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> My understanding is a shout saying passing on left or right is the correct approach. Some people will push past and others will stay behind you. Don't be put off by the minority of ignorant a-holes.



Back on topic  - you're right, but that's in part what I was getting about when I said about calling out.
If the person in front hasn't heard it before or doesn't know what's meant 'on the right' could mean 'keep to the right', or it could mean 'I'm passing on the right'. That was certainly the case for me the first time I ever took part in an mtb racer 20-something years ago, so I just stayed on line and let the guy passing worry about it.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 May 2011)

I agree shouting right or left is confusing. Passing right or left is better. Assuming the rider in front has heard you is dangerous imho and you should always look for acknoledgment of some kind. Doing that on a blue route is however frankly rude.


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## Norm (4 May 2011)

henshaw11 said:


> Back on topic  - you're right, but that's in part what I was getting about when I said about calling out.
> If the person in front hasn't heard it before or doesn't know what's meant 'on the right' could mean 'keep to the right', or it could mean 'I'm passing on the right'. That was certainly the case for me the first time I ever took part in an mtb racer 20-something years ago, so I just stayed on line and let the guy passing worry about it.


 I slow down and call "coming through on your left (or right)" when passing but I try to do so with enough notice and a low-enough speed differential that I can go either way or stop completely if there is any confusion.

Or I just match the speed of the person I'm approaching and use the excuse to get a breath.


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## Bromptonaut (4 May 2011)

Thanks for the comments/support. To reiterate I was on the Adventure Trail which is graded blue. Apart from one steep descent it was pretty easy and most users were families with kids from around 11 up. My party comprised me and Mrs B, our 18yo daughter, 16 yo son and daughter's 20yo b/f. I'm an expererienced commuter & touring rider and while rearward observation to road standards is not possible on MTB terrain I'd heard and made way for other riders. A 'passing left' call would have been entirely what I'd expect on the road and would not have cuased me the slightest prob. 

Picking up on a comment upthread my immediate reaction to Mrs B was 'bet he drives a BMW!!


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## Tynan (4 May 2011)

teehee, suspect some rearguard action from red route geezers that missed the blue route point


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## Cubist (4 May 2011)

Tynan said:


> teehee, suspect some rearguard action from red route geezers that missed the blue route point



Indeed! 

By the way, Bromptonaut, I would heartily recommend the red route at Sherwood Pines. It is all singletrack, with a couple of steepish chutes, but no rocks, no drop-offs or jumps that can't be rolled in comfort. In fact, without wanting to upset anyone it's probably the best route for novice/improvers to ride on as it has nothing that will destroy confidence levels. 

As for the eejits that buzzed you..... forget them, you'll meet far more nice MTBers than bad ones, and if that's how they get their kicks you could always pull their legs in the car park afterwards about having something to prove on family routes.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 May 2011)

Cubist said:


> Indeed!
> 
> By the way, Bromptonaut, I would heartily recommend the red route at Sherwood Pines. It is all singletrack, with a couple of steepish chutes, but no rocks, no drop-offs or jumps that can't be rolled in comfort. In fact, without wanting to upset anyone it's probably the best route for novice/improvers to ride on as it has nothing that will destroy confidence levels.
> 
> As for the eejits that buzzed you..... forget them, you'll meet far more nice MTBers than bad ones, and if that's how they get their kicks you could always pull their legs in the car park afterwards about having something to prove on family routes.


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## Janeyb (5 May 2011)

IMO it's just common sense to give a shout to give people warning. I gave a shout out to the couple WALKING ALONG A TIGHT SECTION OF THE RED ROUTE!!!!! at Thetford on Monday. We were going at a fair pace but slow enough to see them in time and apply the brakes. The response we received was.....'Our kids are on their bikes up ahead and we don't want to lose them'! We then encountered the kids standing chatting and waiting for their parents blocking the route! Next we encountered a chap walking his dog (not on a lead) on another section of one way single track! Love it!


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## Angelfishsolo (5 May 2011)

Some people are asking for trouble. I actually though it walking along any dedicated cycle trail was not allowed.



Janeyb said:


> IMO it's just common sense to give a shout to give people warning. I gave a shout out to the couple WALKING ALONG A TIGHT SECTION OF THE RED ROUTE!!!!! at Thetford on Monday. We were going at a fair pace but slow enough to see them in time and apply the brakes. The response we received was.....'Our kids are on their bikes up ahead and we don't want to lose them'! We then encountered the kids standing chatting and waiting for their parents blocking the route! Next we encountered a chap walking his dog (not on a lead) on another section of one way single track! Love it!


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## fossyant (5 May 2011)

I love Zoiders analogy of 'MTB's are designed for going downhill fast'. That's where I got it wrong - bought one before suspension came the thing. It's set up as an off road 'road bike' - fast as heck XC and up hill but won't go down rocky stuff well (more the rider).

So for us off road numpties... RED and BLACK are fairly 'hard' as in technical (down hill, rocks, these wooden plank things, and 'drop offs..OMG) - not bothered about MT Everest ascent, I am a roadie - can we have an up hill MTB course ?


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## lukesdad (6 May 2011)

Mmm Mtbers who have raced are probably a little confused as to what to do when not racing  When racing it is down to the faster guy to pass and not to shout anything for obvious reasons, he must make the deviation and pass safely. Shouting when passing is not a good idea apart from the which side confusion allready pointed out, it is not a good idea to startle a novice or nervous rider as they could be likely to do something totally unexpected, on trail parks I would expect them to slow down mind.


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## 3narf (6 May 2011)

I have a big shiny bell on my mountain bike, not that I ever overtake anyone.


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## Norm (6 May 2011)

lukesdad said:


> Mmm Mtbers who have raced are probably a little confused as to what to do when not racing


Is there something which makes MTBers unable to handle this confusion, as the people I know who race cars, bikes, boats, planes, 4x4, and even lawn-mowers are able to manage the transition to acceptable driving / riding / flying when they are not racing.


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## Kirstie (6 May 2011)

Norm said:


> Is there something which makes MTBers unable to handle this confusion, as the people I know who race cars, bikes, boats, planes, 4x4, and even lawn-mowers are able to manage the transition to acceptable driving / riding / flying when they are not racing.




I read this thread yesterday and have been thinking about it. If you are racing, and you are passing someone who is obviously not in your category (eg you are a man, racing in mens sport or whatever, and you are overtaking a woman who is on the same course), then it is the right thing to say 'coming through on your right/left'. But it is also true that the person overtaking has to find a safe way through as the person being overtaken will be on their line, probably the better line, and is entitled to be there. Just barging through is not acceptable, although plenty of people do it, and it can cause crashes and all sorts. I have been there! I have also seen this kind of behaviour when out on the general trails (not just trail centres), to the extent to which stronger riders have buzzed the back wheels of weaker riders (who they don't know). It's just not acceptable behaviour.

As far as the OP is concerned, the actions of the overtaker are unacceptably rude and nothing short of bullying. On a blue trail where there will be novice bikers you either pass with plenty of space, at a reasonable speed, or if there is little space, warn the person and say 'coming through on your left/right when you are ready'. Sadly though there are pr*cks in all walks of life and mtbing is no exception.


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## tradesecrets (6 May 2011)

The weekend .. of recent weather wise was exceptional so i made the most of it and spent everyday out on my bike .. 


The bike track i use is heavily used .. by various people especially those that can't ride bikes they struggle like hell wobbly all over the shop never mind pay attention or listen out to the sound of the bike bell and family that take the kids out and the dogs ..

It doesn't matter if your plodding along or bootin the arse out of it your more likely to be held up at some stage by kids which the parents are so unassuming of what is coming to and fro and dogs pff the leads ...

And not forgetting the ipod wearing crew as well be it joggers or cyclists 

And the ones that totally rip it no matter are those on racers those dressed up glorified wannabee pro cyclists and some of the them are old enough to be my dad ...


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## lukesdad (7 May 2011)

Norm said:


> Is there something which makes MTBers unable to handle this confusion, as the people I know who race cars, bikes, boats, planes, 4x4, and even lawn-mowers are able to manage the transition to acceptable driving / riding / flying when they are not racing.



Norm note the smiley


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## Norm (7 May 2011)

lukesdad said:


> Norm note the smiley


Back at you.


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