# 2020 Genesis Croix de Fer 30 Review...



## wafter (18 Apr 2020)

This thread is brought to you in association with OCD, anxiety and indecision. The road here has been shamefully long and tortured; although eased significantly by the input of those on Cycle Chat who have helped talk me through many of the issues, dilemmas and uncertainties that preceded the eventual purchase - thanks everyone 

A new bike so not a build or mod as such; still a bit of a project though as I've already put some work in while tweaks and additions will be ongoing until it's as I want. Obviously if this is in the wrong place, mods please move it to somewhere more appropriate!


I've long-liked the jack-of-all-trades appeal of graveladventureroadplus bikes; spurred on by the fact that the roads aren't getting any better (current apocalypse notwithstanding), a love of nature and fan of the mental health benefits of being somewhere that no bugger else is.. I'd like to do a bit of touring, have a mistrust of composites and am a tight, skint, mostly-luddite so the perceived longevity of steel appealed significantly; which all served to boil down my potential choices further.

The Croix de Fer was an obvious choice; being relatively common, well-regarded, relatively "accessibly" priced compared to more custom steel builds and of a spec that ticks nearly all my boxes.


Over past months I've watched the usual used sources and done my homework on the Croix de Fer range (if anyone needs to know about the spec of a particular CdF I have a comprehensive spreadsheet and everything). I was originally gunning for a used CdF 20, but supply was slow and their prices were all silly compared to the grand I could pay for a new example of last year's model (which appears to be exactly the same as this year's model). Further, if I was paying that much for a new one, it was tempting to chuck more into the pot to get the higher spec. CdF 30..

I deliberated until the morning I woke up to find the 2020 CdF 30 out of stock; meaning I could no longer get one price-matched from a localish shop, as had been my fallback plan in case I couldn't find a sensibly priced used example. This forced my hand to go for the one remaining discounted 2019 CdF 30 I'd also been keeping an eye on. Through a convoluted and fortuitous chain of events I ended up getting a 2020 model for the same price 

It wasn't all gravy though as the bike arrived with a paint issue and had to go back. It was replaced with an alternative; dropped off by the bike shop owner himself (at a suitable distance, thanks Maurice!) - which was very much appreciated as it saved the time and hassle of boxing it up and potentially two more days spent waiting inside for a courier.


The Croix de Fer 30 sits in the mid-higher end of the range; beneath the top-end Titanium model and above the lower-specced CdF 10 and 20 steel offerings. For your extra wedge over the semi-hydraulic Tiagra setup of the CdF 20 you get a (nearly) full hydraulic 105 groupset and GRX rear derailleur, centre-lock brakes and a trendy gumwall version of the WTB tyres. Another thing that really pushed me towards the 30 was its redesigned frame that takes flat-mount calipers and 12mm through-axles (over the 20's IS-mount and standard QRs); both of which appeal on their technical merits and appear to be the incoming standard for road bikes, so hopefully a nice bit of future-proofing.


The bike arrived on Wednesday and I spent all day messing about with it; mostly getting the SKS Longboard mudguards to fit as I'd like.. lots of other little bits were done as well.

To start with, just like the last example the bike's seatpost clamp had been forced onto the frame despite having a burr; so this had to be dragged off (with some effort), de-burred by hand with a round stone and the damaged paint beneath cleaned up as best as possible with a bit of ancient (and probably utterly useless) T-cut. Unseen and liveable with, but very poor considering how easy it would to prevent; especially considering the bike's price. I'll be harassing someone at Genesis over this.























The through-axles were adjusted to give a more acceptable opening / closing load on their cam levers; achieved by slackening off the socket csk bolt at their threaded ends, rotating the threaded collar (positioning aided by graduations) and re-tightening the bolt. After some trial and error they were much nicer to fit and remove when oriented correctly.











The camera was left alone once I got stuck into fitting the guards since it took so long; compounded by my desire to get everything perfect - the process involving the wheels going on and off many times and lots of manipulation to get the best fit. Once the decision was made the stainless stays were chopped off with a Dremel's cutting disc, ground square and de-burred manually with a stone.

I found the back of the rear guard was a little kinked to one side (storage damage perhaps?) but by this time I was on the home straight regarding fitting and there was no way I was going to pull it all off and send it back.. I heated the guard and bent it back as well as possible; it's now straight but still has a little ripple in one side; hard to notice unless you're looking but I know it's there.


I also re-aligned the handlebars, tightened the loose derailleur hanger bolt and waxed the frame amongst other jobs; leaving just enough daylight to go our for a quick spin and bring a smile to my face 


Yesterday I took the bike to Bagley wood to see what it / I was capable of; more of that a bit later. It got somewhat dusty and acquired a few light rub marks on the frame from the local flora, as well as picking up a graze on one of the shifters 

I'm very picky about my equipment and always try to "buy for life" so do my best to keep my gear minty; however one of the first (and most obvious) things to appreciate about riding off-road is that it's got to be harder on the kit. I'd considered fitting frame protection tape; however always baulk at the price, am unsure of my abilities to fit it to an acceptable standard and hope the mudguards will protect the frame from the worst of the stonechips. I do still need to add some protection at the cable rub points; which are currently covered by double-layers of Sellotape..

Speaking of gear longevity, after all of 40 miles the startlingly tacky grease on the KMC chain had all manner of crap attached to it; forming a tough, sticky composite with dust and plant matter that clung doggedly to the running gear. This was especially prevalent on the rear DR jockey wheels; which had to be scraped off with a matchstick as my brushes and copious amounts of degreaser wouldn't touch it.

The dust was also sticking convincingly to various other greasy bits; including some surfaces that had no right to be greasy - such as the exterior faces of the derailleurs and chainset; greasy hands during initial assembly perhaps?

Hence, today's job was to strip and clean the bike _again_. Wheels came off and were washed; the clag removed from the rear cassette with degreaser and a brush then towel-dried and the rims waxed. The chainset and rear DR were given a good dose of degreaser (which also took all Wednesday's carnauba wax off the frame beneath  ) and scrubbed to remove all the sticky crap and abrasive buildup on their surfaces and chain contact points. The frame and mudguards were cleaned, the whole lot rinsed and dried off with a towel before being waxed again.

In the absence of any decent solvent degreaser the brake discs were cleaned with washing up liquid and water as the front irritatingly developed a judder yesterday; which by pushing it around the living room I'm not convinced is gone, so futher investigation is required. I'v got a horrible feeling I didn't bed them in sufficently (for the first few miles they were ridden lightly with no hard braking or complete stops) and problems didn't manifest themselves until maybe 30 miles of use, if this has any relevance.

I think I need to have the discs off, scuff the surfaces up with some abrasive on a block and thoroughly degrease them. Thoughtfully the centrelock discs use the same drive tool as the lockring on Shimano's HG cassettes (which I already have) however I'm sadly lacking either the 1/2" drive bar or 16mm spanner required to drive it.. while degreaser and abrasives are in short supply here too so it looks like this is going to have to wait for now 

Finally after having been removed last night and soaking in paraffin since, the chain was cleaned up and given half an hour in the wax pan on the hob. I'd initially resisted the urge to wax the chain from the off, however wish I had now given the mess the drivetrain ended up in 


Having now put a fair few hours into improving a few areas of the bike it's feeling a bit more like mine and less like a fresh, sterile purchase 

The pics below show the bike as it currently stands (shot in the wilds of the garden as it was raining and any more miles today would have caused my legs to have fallen off):











This has been my first foray into fully-fledged 105 ownership; having worked my way up over the years like an obedient consumer from 8sp Sora to 10sp Tiagra and now 11sp 105. I like the 105's position in the market; unpretentions and close to the performance of the higher-end non-electronic groupsets but much cheaper so great value. So far I'm very impressed - no surprise to me really as I hold Shimano products in high regard (disintegrating cranks notwithstanding).

Compared to the excellent Tiagra I'm used to the 105 isn't worlds ahead but does feel a fair bit more refined. Lever ergonomics and aesthetics are a bit nicer while shifting is a little lighter and softer / more damped. Braking operation is very nice with a positive, light and longish travel on the levers until the brakes engage; giving a predictable, linear and easy to modulate pull. Overcooking it a bit in the woods yesterday I was impressed by how easy and instinctive it was to finely control force at front and rear when descending too fast on loose ground and having to brake suddenly.

I also like the fact that the down-shift lever action on the RH / rear STI allows shifting in blocks of three in one stroke (as opposed to two on the Tiagra). This makes it quicker and easier to maintain good cadence when shifting up on the front ring without having to make multiple lever strokes to "balance" the rear; especially useful given the relatively large gaps between rear sprockets on the 11-34 cassette.







The hoods are longer and larger than the Tiagra items so reach is a bit more comparatively; but perhaps not as much as suggested visually by their size. reach to the levers can be set nicely by virtue of (what I assume is) a cam system that allows the starting position of the lever to be reduced by up to around 5mm from its standard setting. I have relatively short fingers but am happy with it on the 2nd setting in from max 

The bars are 420mm between hoods with a 12 degree flare at the drops, making them around 470mm wide c-c at this point. Drop is a standard-ish 125mm and reach to the drops is long at 90mm; more than the 70mm of last year's model I test rode some time ago. The current bar geometry felt excessive when just sitting on the bike while stationary, although seems less problematic when moving - however the jury's still out. The long reach is somewhat offset by the bike's relatively tall stack (to promote a more relaxed, upright position), and tbh I'd like to keep the existing bar reach if possible since it allows a greater range of body positions from pretty upright on the tops to near-my-road-bike low if I hunker down on the drops. Sticking with the existing bars would also save a few quid and a load of hassle and deliberation..







One of the issues I had with the mudguards was getting the front to sit lower; which as we can see from this pic I've struggled with. Really the bracket at the fork needed bending more, however I went as far as I dared and was mindful of damaging the riveted interface with the guard itself, so didn't overcook it. Perhaps clamping the riveted bit in a vice might help, although I don't currently have one handy and am in no hurry to remove the guard again..

(ctd. below)


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## wafter (18 Apr 2020)

The gloss black plastic SKS mudguards came with an arry of BZP mild steel socket cap bolts - perfectly adequate but could be nicer. The one pictured above on the fork is the only original bolt that made its way onto the bike as I didn't have a suitable length replacement (on the to-do list).







Fortunately I had a load of fixings left over from my Ofo-de-tamperproofing, so used these stainless socket button cap bolts where I could, along with an array of stainless penny washers to protect the components and paint a little more. If I ever have the rear guard off again I'll be putting a decent rad on the rather crude corners of its bracket!







Deformation of the rear and silly-long fitting time notwithstanding I'm generally very impressed with the guards. IMO they look pretty smart in their gloss black with stainless fittings, fit pretty well (especially for universal items), are secure, reasonably stiff and appear well made. I'm yet to experience how good they are at keeping the water off (won't be in a hurry to find out given I've just cleaned the bike), but they give massive coverage and have a good rep, while they've already proven excellent at catching the grit flicked up by the tyres that might otherwise have damaged the bike's paint. Tbh for the £30 I paid I think they're great value 







Another advantage of the 105 groupset over the Tiagra is that its front derailleur is a lot more compact, giving no clearance issues with these 45mm wide guards other than a small amount of contact with the cable end on the big ring; so no need to take the dremel to the mudguards!







I love the clean look of the slender, tapered steel fork with the lack of QR skewer assy and open dropout.. this smooth aesthetic aided by the low profile button bolts on the mudguard mount. It's all about the little things and detail 







Weld quality appears neat and aesthetics are subtle with the majority of the fork and frame being finished in two shades of darkish green, with the Genesis text broadcast more obviously in white. I like the subtlety and while the green might not be my favourite colour, it's not too far down the list and not something that proved an obstacle to buying.

On a less positive note I recently noticed that the front badge is attached on the p*ss (rotated about the principal axis of the head tube so sits off to one side) - pretty inexcusible on a bike of this price IMO and I'll be bothering Genesis about sorting it out. I'm thinking some heat from a hairdryer and a probably replacement badge if they'll play ball.. the "wings" on the G also sit a little proud at their rear so having the badge off would also allow them to be formed a bit tighter around a smaller OD tube to better conform to the head tube when fitted.







It's nice that the subtle colour scheme extends to the Reynolds and Genesis branding on the frame. I'm not overly-sold on the unashamed yellowness of the supplier's sticker, however I do appreciate that they add a certain character to a bike and it's well applied so can stay for now.

I don't begrudge them a bit of free advertising either since they were good to deal with and the price was very keen. Also, easily-over-looked cracked paint on the first bike and one loose fixing on this one notwithstanding, the quality of the build was very good with decent grease everywhere it should be and no marks from slipped tools during hasty assembly, chewed screw heads, poorly-setup components etc.. which was all very much appreciated 







IMO the 105's crankset fits nicely with the rest of the bike's aesthetic, although I do have impure thoughts about a GRX 800 replacement to drop the gearing a little (48/31 v. the current 50/34); since the bike is evidently a bit over-geared (at least for me) especially for off-road applications and I'd certainly take the 4% hit at the high end for the 9ish % extension in range at the low end offered by the GRX crank.

That said at around £200 for the crank and necessary matching front derailleur (to suit its wider chainline spacing) I'm not falling over myself to get one bought and am hoping that once this relatively new groupset has aged a little prices might come down a bit. There's also the 600-series GRX (apparently 105-level) 46/30T chainset for about £50 less than the 800-series item; potentially a better bet for for the modest capabilities of my legs with its 8% and 11ish % reductions at the high and low ends respectively, compared to what's currently fitted. Not sure my OCD would allow the mis-match between equipment levels though!

Of course GRX throughout would have been nice, however it's a good deal more expensive than the 105 (around 60%) and as such reserved in the Croix de Fer range for the top-end Ti model. Anyway, reservations about chainring sizes notwithstanding I have zero complaints or concerns so far about the groupset fitted.

I've fitted the caged pedals from my OCR while I decide on a set of (probably) SPD items and am currently looking at the double-sided, platformed XT M8120s..

While the chain was off I did a "spin test" on the crank, which didn't see it spinning for ages. I guess this could be down to bearing alignment or perhaps just viscous drag from internal grease. Depending on how long the bottom bracket lasts I might look at getting the BB shell re-faced to promote bearing alignment..







The rear dropout (or not really any more, I guess!) is different on the 2019 and 2020 CdF 30 models to accomodate the 12mm through-axle on these models. Note the black ally bush in the frame, into which the axle screws - nice to have a replaceable part in this area should it get damaged. The single retaining bolt screws into the derailleur hanger inside the dropout, which also acts as a location point for the rear hub.

This all appears to be a nice setup; although detracted from somewhat by the single-screw fixing (which allows the parts to pivot against the frame when the axle is removed - not the end of the world but a bit irritating). In addition the propriatory format of the rear derailleur hanger concerns me a bit from a future-spares perspective. Hopefully It'll never get bent with the RD's low-profile design, but I think it might be worth having a spare just incase.

Speaking of the derailleur, the 2020 model gets the Ultegra-level GRX item. While always nice, the trim-level-bragging-rights don't interest me too much, however the GRX item does bring some tangible advantages over the 105 alternative; namely acceptance of a larger range cassette (34T v. 32T) and a switcheable clutch to deter chain slap over rough ground. This, along with the through-axles and disk brakes illustrating the slow osmosis of MTB kit into road-esque bikes.

The 11-34t cassette is a welcome addition on this bike, giving me around 13% more range at the low end than the 12-28t setup on my road bike which is certainly both noticeable and welcome on hills. While the gaps between each gear are obviously greater than on a lower-range cassette I've not noticed the bike wanting in this regard on the road on my (so-far) gentle journeys, while off-road when speeds and cadences change rapidly it's certainly a non-issue; perhaps even a bonus since it allows a greater change in the ratios for fewer lever actuations so a faster response.

(Ctd. below)


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## wafter (18 Apr 2020)

The not-dropout on the other side of the bike also differs from that of the CdF 20, being redesigned to take the now-road-standard flat mount calipers. All in all it's a pretty complex part compared to the CdF 20 item, which appears to be a single-thickness piece of material profile-cut into shape. I'm guessing this is likely metal-injection-molded as it'd be pricey to machine.. nicely executed anyway and goes some way towards justifying the 30's greater cost I suppose. Note the quick release cam lever for the axle and nice stainless fixings on the mudguard stays 







At the front we have the same 160mm laminated stainless / ally Shimano SLX-M7000 "Ice-Tec" disks - nice that the manufacturer hasn't scrimped on branded items on less "central" parts. The flat mount caliper makes the front end a lot cleaner, with the added bonus that its lower profile clears the mudguard stays nicely; avoiding the need to space them out to miss the IS / post mount calipers on the CdF 10 and 20 models.







There are still plenty of bits that need sorting. For now I've lashed my original Polar mount to the stem while I sort out a much preferable "out front" alternative. I've also pilfered a slightly tatty bottle cage from my old road bike again while I sort out more presentable alternatives. I'm somewhat torn on the cages as I usually use (and would certainly want) two, however the rear one would block the area occupied by one's arm inside the main triangle when lifting the bike over stuff, so I'm not sure I want to fill up this space as it'll make manouvering it over objects potentially a lot more problematic.

I like the relief-map graphics on the headset cap and bar 






The saddle feels reasonably comfortable, however I'm concerned that I might need a bit more layback, so another post might be on the cards. It's currently setup to accomodate use with the flat pedals (and their lower stack height) so is maybe 10mm lower than it might be. I think upping the saddle height once the SPDs are fitted might make for a bit less confidence over technical stuff due to the greater distance to the floor.. will probably chuck on the SPD pedals from the road bike at some point and give it a try.


I've been out twice on the bike; encompassing a good range of terrain including road, smooth-ish but undulating hard pack mud, barely-defined single track, potholed gravel paths, rutted muddy tracks and gravelled forest roads (I guess what the yanks would call "fire roads") of varying gravellyness.

Initial impressions are pretty much what one would expect. On-road the bike feels like a road bike with the edge taken off; a bit more rolling resistance from the fatter, treaded tyres (especially if the pressure has been dropped to promote off-road comfort), a bit more comfortable in terms of posture / over the bumps and a bit more drag due to the more upright position. The geometry is slower than a typical road bike (longer wheelbase and shallower head angle IIRC) but it doesn't feel any worse for it; perhaps a bit more stable but not sluggish in terms of handling. I've not tackled any significant hills yet..

On hard-pack mud and across shallow, fine, scattered gravel the bike really comes into its own and feels like a proper weapon - far more capable than a road bike would feel under the same circumstances and in my mind far faster over this sort of terrain than anything has any business to be  Really in this capacity it feels like a far more capable road bike; its ability on this sort of surface arguably out-weighing its shortcomings on the road; but I guess ths depends on which terrain it's likely to see most use on.

On fairly open, hard-pack single track the bike was fine; although care has to be taken around sudden patches of deep, wet mud that can't be easily avoided as the (relatively) skinny tyres have a tendency to bog down.. as is also the case to a lesser extent on loose, dry brush - perhaps something that could be negated to an extent by a more skilled rider.

Likewise, while the big rims do a good job of rolling over fairly large obstacles, the limited give in the tyres and lack of suspension compared to an MTB make the ride over ridged, dry mud (such as tractor tracks) and large (say 40mm+), irregularly-laid stones a fairly jarring, nervous and unpleasant experience (again, at least in my off-road novice hands). 

Having been spoilt somewhat by the comfort of the 47mm semi-slicks on my ofo, tyre size is one area I feel the CdF is may be somewhat lacking as the max. stated width is 38c IIRC; significant when the bike came out 10+yrs ago, but now nowt special amongst its contempories. Looking at the frame you could probably push it 40c or maybe ever 42c, but it would be getting tight; especially with the guards in place. I've considered 650b to gain more tyre volume but this would potentially place the fattest part of the tyre inboard of the areas of maximum relief in the frame, so might not help. A moot point currently anyway as I'm not throwing any more money at it than I have to!


Really the bike behaves as you'd expect from the format and spec; compared to a road bike a bit worse on-road but far more capable on light(ish) off-road terrain; while unsurprisingly being clearly inferior to a decent MTB over really rough / uneven / muddy ground.


A few thoughts on a personal level, FWIW. My technical skills are poor; my aversion to offs, pain and kit damage significant so I'll be sticking to lightish open off-road trails - well-maintained forest tracks, tow paths, bridleways and the like.

Again all pretty obvious but I've so far found riding off road more physically and mentally demanding than on-road; due to the greater need to identify and react to hazards and changing terrain in front of you at speed, as well as getting out of the saddle regularly to lessen the harshness of the ride over rough stuff, power up a short, steep transitions or shift your weight around to placate the media moving about under the tyres.

Off-road stuff is more physically and mentally engaging and hence more tiring, while on any surface "worse" than a well-maintained fine gravel track you can't just mosy alone with your mind on other stuff as you can on a quiet road; instead you have to be on it all the time.

When riding off the beaten track there are many more un-rideable obstacles; so far the bike having been carried over the shoulder over two or three styles and swung in one fluid motion over a couple of gates and fences. While building the bike up I weighed it at 11.30kg without pedals, which is a little lighter than the quoted factory value of 11.5ish kg. I'm guessing with pedals, mudguards, bottles, cages, GPS etc it'll probably be knocking on the door of 14kg. Not the end of the world but I'd not want it to be any heavier!


So there we go. I hope some find this of interest - especially since I couldn't find a lot on the 2019+ CdF 30 on the net; all the reviews (for what they're worth) being of the pre-2019 models which have earlier 105 5800 bits with non-series RS505 shifters, BR505 brakes and lack the through-axle / flat mount frame frame of the later models. Not a bad spec by any stretch but a bit of a mishmash and it feels that the current model are more refined, mature, cohesive and contemporary.

I've got a load more bits to do on the bike and will be out on it again once the weather's improved so will keep this thread updated


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## Spiderweb (18 Apr 2020)

What a great review, you are to put it mildly... very meticulous 
I’ve never know such attention to detail.

Your bike looks fabulous, great choice, enjoy!


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## newfhouse (18 Apr 2020)

A very thorough write up. It just needs some more battle scars now so you can relax, stop worrying, and treat it as the working tool it wants to be.


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## Cycleops (18 Apr 2020)

Well, what a comprehensive and exhaustive review, the phrase ‘fine tooth comb’ comes to mind . 
Useful for anyone thinking of buying a C d F, a bike I’ve always considered due to its steel frame.
Thanks for posting such an interesting read.


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## fossala (18 Apr 2020)

I would love a review like this when I’m looking at buying a bike. Well done!


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## Slick (18 Apr 2020)

Yeah, great review that should prove invaluable to some. 

I knew it was De Ver as soon as you mentioned Maurice as I've had some dealings with him and he is just as good at problem solving from the other side of the country. 👍


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## cheys03 (18 Apr 2020)

Stunning work. I own a 2016 model and enjoyed comparing the differences however subtle, through your review. You’ve gone in to a great amount of detail and it reminded me so much of my own week-long build process as I tweaked the bike to my own preferences, mudguards etc. Happy memories. Such a well written report - I wanted to know all about the GRX rear mech as it’s unfamiliar to me so made a mental note to Google it afterwards, but you answer all the questions I had a little later in the review! Brill!
You seem to love the bike so great decision and much happiness and smiles to come.


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## Pale Rider (18 Apr 2020)

Top job on the mudguards, few things look better on a bike than well fitted mudguards.

The front one is also long enough to do the job, which few are.

I ran out of steam after you got to the chain, but I agree about that.

The few new bikes I've had have all come with very sticky chains.

Takes a few clean and lubes to knock them into shape.

By the way, your last pic is spoiled by the presence of the bidon.

One of the rules of bike pic taking is no bidons.

The pic is good in other respects, pedal at about 3 o'clock and a medium gear.

Valves should be at 6 o'clock, but they are barely visible.


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## wafter (19 Apr 2020)

Thanks guys - glad some of you found it of interest 



Spiderweb said:


> What a great review, you are to put it mildly... very meticulous
> I’ve never know such attention to detail.
> 
> Your bike looks fabulous, great choice, enjoy!


Thanks(!) - as you might expect the sort of mindset that fosters this sort of approach can be a blessing and a curse; small(ish) things usually get done well, big things don't get done 



newfhouse said:


> A very thorough write up. It just needs some more battle scars now so you can relax, stop worrying, and treat it as the working tool it wants to be.


Ta - you'll be pleased to know yesterday's escapade saw one of the crank arms dinged traversing a concrete fixture 

I know I'm p*ssing into the wind to an extent but I'm determined to keep it in as-good-a-condition as possible as it really pains me when stuff gets damaged..



Cycleops said:


> Well, what a comprehensive and exhaustive review, the phrase ‘fine tooth comb’ comes to mind .
> Useful for anyone thinking of buying a C d F, a bike I’ve always considered due to its steel frame.
> Thanks for posting such an interesting read.


Thanks and no worries - glad you enjoyed it. IMO you could certainly do a lot worse than a CdF if you're after something of that format 



fossala said:


> I would love a review like this when I’m looking at buying a bike. Well done!


Thanks! So would I have liked to have read something like this before I took the plunge; as per my other post there were no reviews of the current model that I could find and in any case you never know how much credance to give to "official" product reviews.. 

Maybe this might help out a few people in future. I'll be interested to see what next year's CdF 30 looks like, but tbh I reckon the spec will remain the same other than the colour and probably the tyres (as they appear to be discontinued). The R&D budget has probably long gone on wages for furloughed staff and once Genesis hit on a decent formula they seem to stick with it until outside forces (such as new groupsets or discontinued products) dictate the need to change. So... hopefully this thread (FWIW) might remain relevant for a while  



Slick said:


> Yeah, great review that should prove invaluable to some.
> 
> I knew it was De Ver as soon as you mentioned Maurice as I've had some dealings with him and he is just as good at problem solving from the other side of the country. 👍


Thanks - I hope so!

Aye - from my dealings with Maurice he's a top bloke - just waiting to ensure there are no more nasty surprises I need to bother him about before sending him an email of thanks 



cheys03 said:


> Stunning work. I own a 2016 model and enjoyed comparing the differences however subtle, through your review. You’ve gone in to a great amount of detail and it reminded me so much of my own week-long build process as I tweaked the bike to my own preferences, mudguards etc. Happy memories. Such a well written report - I wanted to know all about the GRX rear mech as it’s unfamiliar to me so made a mental note to Google it afterwards, but you answer all the questions I had a little later in the review! Brill!
> You seem to love the bike so great decision and much happiness and smiles to come.


Thanks - you sound like a man after my own heart  

Have you had yours since new? How have you found it in the long(ish) term? I'm hoping to get many years of solid service from mine.

Sounds like you're planning an upgrade; hopefully it proves as enjoyable as sorting the bike the first time around 



Pale Rider said:


> Top job on the mudguards, few things look better on a bike than well fitted mudguards.
> 
> The front one is also long enough to do the job, which few are.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I wasn't sure about the aesthetic of the mudguards tbh but I was already sold on functional grounds. As it happens I do like the way they make the bike look - IMO a bit more classic and refined - especially those that follow a lot of the wheels' cirumference like the longboards.

I think the situation with the chains is perhaps that they're fitted without their preservative / transit grease being removed first. Aside from the contamination issue it must cause quite a lot of internal drag too. 

Sorry - I scoff in the face of bike photography convention - there'd be two bottles on there if I had my way and the valves usually get left where they fall; although I confess to having stuck them at 12 O'clock for some of the pics 



Yesterday saw more time with the bike. First job was to try to sort out the juddering front brake with my near-zero resources. Pushing the bike with the brake partially engaged revealed around 8 "loose" spots during one disc rotation. I've been careful about contamination and tbh think the issue is probably the result of my inadiquate bedding.. the rear is fine but of course that gets lighter use so probably more likely to bed in correctly under normal use.

Having read a few bedding articles I tried spraying the disc with rain water (to avoid getting water marks on everything) and dragging it down the hill I live on numerous times. This appeared to work to some extent; with successive runs resulting in lower speeds at the bottom as I could apply more braking force on each run before the onset of squealing and / or juddering. Repeating the "push test" I can only really feel 6 "loose" spots and they feel shorter in duration than before the hill treatment. 

Ultimately I gave up as I got sick of riding back up the hill; but maybe I'll give it another go today. In use the brakes still don't feel smooth like the rear, but they stop well enough and I don't think the juddering feels as bad as it did, so while not perfect the bike is rideable so I can continue to use it until I can clean the disc up.


Having crawled out of the house to play with the brakes I decided to go for a sedate ride in the gloom and continue to explore what surfaces the bike could handle. I floated down into town on the tops of the bars, the short reach and high stack making for a comfortable and relaxed position. I followed the tow path to Port Meadow; whimsically rising and falling over its smooth, grassy peaks and troughs en-route to Burgess field nature reserve for a lap and a bit on its undulating hard pack earth. This yielded one hairy moment where the front wheel smacked the edge of a partially-buried brick and I thought it was game over for the tyre, but it was all good 

Out of the nature reserve, I crossed the river and headed out to Wolvercote on the tracks across the grass, then onward on the Thames path out toward Eynsham; the expansive route by the river spoiled by the uncomfortably rough none-too-well-trodden paths across the grass and a lot of bloody gates. The most pleasant bit was a stretch of path before the Eynsham toll bridge, which was flat and surrounded by lush greenery 

At this point I stopped to add half a turn to the RD's cable adjustor as the inevitable cable stretch meant it had become indecisive as to which of the cassette's sprockets it preferred in any given position. I continued under the bridge and in a small loop before emerging onto the road at a boatyard just outside of Eynsham; cold, tired and a bit irritated by the crap ride quality, need to negotiate a totally non-bike-friendly kissing gate and the fact that I'd smacked one of my cranks crossing some concrete structure by the river. 

I headed back towards Eynsham in the hope that I could cheek my way through Wytham woods (Which would have been fantastic on this bike) however it was closed so I continued into the village then east to Bladon with the wind in my face. Hanging a right through Yarnton, I got raced by a kid on the cycle path on the other side of the dual carriageway while he was out for a ride with his family - great to see some enthusiasm for cycling in the young; hopefully the beginning of a lifetime of riding 

I cut across to Kidlington to avoid having to cross the Peartree roundabout and back along the tow path (mostly) into town. The last time I rode this stretch it was deep, wet mud and I was sliding all over the place on my totally inappropriate old road bike. This time the mud was a lot drier and well-packed / smoothed by the passage of a many feet and wheels in the interim; making light work for the Genesis. I took a signed detour over the canal and away from self-isolating boat-dwellers; down a stretch of otherwise unknown national cycle route (possibly the first bit I've actually been on!) and popped out in Wolvercote; as one would logically expect but it was still a surprise!

As is often the case my intended gentle ride had degenerated into a bit of a thrash (in my defence the bike does seem to encourage this) and by the time I was on the Woodstock road heading back into town I was hunched over the bars draining the tank. I continued through town as speed and caned it through the desolate Westgate centre for the novelty; which I think needs its own Strava segment 

The ride ended up be around 28 miles at around 12.5mph and 131bpm averages; split broadly into two between slow, low-HR travelling across rough fields with lots of obstacles and faster, higher-exertion efforts on smoother hard-pack, trails and roads.


So, what have I learnt from yesterday's escapade? More reinforcement of the greater "commitment" required by riding off-road; less comfort, less speed, greater mental and physical demands, more obstacles that require dis-mounting, more muck, more potential for damage.. the up-sides being a wider choice of routes, nicer scenery, a more engaging ride and no bloody cars. These routes should also offer more solitude when they're not swarming with people keen to claim their sanctioned daily exercise.

I've now covered maybe 75 miles on the bike and really it keeps getting better. I'm becoming more comfortable with its size and to a lesser extent weight, which sometimes makes itself known (usually when having to negotiate obstacles off the bike) but isn't the end of the world and a tradeoff I'm still happy to take for the virtues of steel. 

I'm still not 100% sure on the saddle position but it seems fairly forgiving - I think this is less critical due to the bike's more relaxed geometry. Also, I'm moving around / out of the saddle a lot more so the perpetual sore spot on my arse isn't subjected to the same consistant grief as on the road bike; where it's rubbing in the same position all the time (something probably exacerbated significatly by the recently-discovered fact that the saddle on the Boardman sits low on one side ).

I'm glad I went for the medium frame since as discussed in a previous thread, its greater stack is intended to suit the bike's application and artificially minimising it by going for a smaller frame would have detracted from the bike's versatility and comfort IMO. I can always drop the stem on the steerer if I feel the need, however my neck's already taken a hammering while riding fast over rough stuff; which I think is minimised by a more upright position. 

Likewise I continue to warm to the bars; yesterday illustrated their versatility nicely through the wide range of positions they offer; more relaxed than my road bike on the tops to comparable when hunched over the hoods or drops with arms bent, forearms flat and elbows tucked in. I also discovered an additional benefit to the relatively long reach to the hoods; this allowing me to grip the fat hood tops with my wrists bending inward and resting inside the bar curve between the bars and hoods... offering a bit more support and a position that shouldn't have too much of an aero penalty over a similar position on the road bike. 

So all those who suggested I was over-thinking the bar situation were probably right; however in my defence I think the CdF's geometry is a lot more forgiving than my road bike; which took ages to tweak to prevent back / neck / foot pain.

I'd like to do more of a comparison between the Boardman and Genesis on the road; the only current data I have (or more correctly can be bothered to analyse) is for a single, straight mile-long stretch of road; covered at 16.1mph and 129bpm on the Boardman and 15.1mph and 139bpm on the Genesis. Drawing conclusions from his one example is hardly scientificly valid and I can't account for what the wind was doing on both days, but the numbers do seem broadly in-keeping with the "10% slower" figure I've read banded about regarding gravel v. road bikes. This was running fairly low pressures in the Genesis' tyres too; so the ride was more comfortable but could have been made a bit quicker with higher tyre pressures.


I recently read it suggested that "a 50/34 tooth chainset has no place on a gravel bike" and my experiences so far corroborate this. I'm not a strong rider (I'd say average-ish from accounts on here and Strava leaderboard positions) and only ever use the 50/12 gearing on my road bike when I feel the need to pull out the stops downhill. As such the 50/11 top end offered on the Genesis is unlikely to see any use since it's higher-geared still, coupled with a bike that gives a less aero posture and has fatter, higher-rolling-resistance tyres that are likely to get a bit squirrely at high speeds. 

One of the smaller GRX crankesets is looking ever-more appealing, however I certainly can't justify the cost currently and I was disappointed to find that the GRX front derailleur is only available in a braze-on format; meaning a clamp-on adaptor is required to fit it to a steel frame. Not the end of the world but offensive to my OCD and something @cheys03 might want to keep in mind if considering an upgrade!


I was pretty impressed by the performance of the mudguards on their first outing with actual mud content. Off-road terrain yesterday consisted mostly of damp claggy mud and a few puddles. I stayed completely clean and dry, the guards kept the wet off the bike and the mud on the frame was mostly restricted to a few chunks from the edges of the tyres sticking to the rear faces of the seatsays, upper faces of the chainstays and rear of the fork:






Obviously I guess this would be more messy if the mud was more sloppy, but in yesterday's case the mud barely stuck to the waxed frame and can just be brushed off dry without the need to resort to washing the whole bike - happy days 

The guards do lose a point for their loose / wonky trim on the leading edge of the front guard; which I'll have to try and secure somehow.


The chain wax is doing its job nicely; keeping the drivetrain clean, slick and contamination-free - although to be fair it'd rained since the previous time I'd taken the bike out so there was a lot less dust in the air when I rode with the sticky chain.







Finally I'd like to cover the wheels and tyres. The rims are Jalco SR240D 700c21c (IIRC) and the tyres 37mm WTB Riddlers. The rims seem to get a bit of a slagging on the net, while the tyres don't have particularly favourable reviews either. 

In my experiences so far I can't really fault either - just like most other builds the wheels aren't particularly high end and are built for strength with fairly deep section rims and 34 spokes (neither of which probably help with comfort). I weighed the front wheel assy (complete with disc) at 1.5kg; which while no featherweight didn't seem like the end of the world considering the fat tyre and spoke count. 






The tyres have been great so far too; offering acceptable rolling resistance and good manners on the road, along with decent, predictable grip on the dense, plastic mud found in many of the areas this bike's intended to be used in. I'm tempted to go tubeless (and probably will in time) however for now am put off by the cost and hassle so will stick with the tubes for the time being. 


So there we go; another tedious wall of text tot ake as you will. In summary I'm gelling well with the bike and enjoying my time spent on it; if a little disillusioned by some of the drawbacks of riding off-road although I think a lot can be dispelled by realistic route selection. Other than the few niggling quality issues, the bike has so far proven to be everything I'd expected; the only things I don't really like being the weight and relatively high gearing but neither are deal-breakers and the latter can potentially be sorted with a new chainset.

Moving forward I still need to sort the brake disc out, as well as whinging to Genesis about the small but irritating quality issues I've encountered. I think I'm going to fit my SPD pedal for the next ride on the CdF and based on the outcome might order some XT items; which will open the door to sorting a better mount for my head unit as well as some bottle cages as they'll probably all come from the same supplier.

Anyway, ta for reading - you must have been really bored if you made it all the way to the end


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## CanucksTraveller (19 Apr 2020)

Very thorough review Wafter, well done. 

Of course I'm at the other end of the scale to this level of protecting my bike, I actively want mine to look less new as quickly as possible. It's still just too shiny and pristine for my liking... I don't want it *damaged* per se, I just prefer my bikes to look well used, I worry about it less then. It takes all sorts! 

I might be strange but I really like a dealer sticker on a bike, it sort of gives the machine a bit of an identity, somewhere it's "from". Silly I know, but i like a crafty look at the seat tube of other bikes and the delight in seeing "Carr's Cycles, Harrogate" or whatever.


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## cheys03 (19 Apr 2020)

I have the Ti model, a rare treat to myself after lusting for a 30 for many months. Bought new before the Ti price went absolutely ridiculous and in the end of season sale. I would not have bought it at the current nearly £4k rrp I can tell you! Initially I was disappointed with some of the small details and I was shocked to see through your review that Genesis haven’t changed some of their habits. Mine arrived with a wonky head badge too for example! The original forks did not have eyes for mudguards, a fault with all the bikes that year. Cue lots of chasing and a 10 week wait for replacements that required a different headset which wasn’t included with the replacements, a further unforgivable oversight by Genesis. At least the sale of the original forks netted a small return for the trouble but I’d have rather it be right from the start. The frame that year is mostly unpolished with a bead blasted finish. Inferior in my eyes and conveniently (for Genesis) cheaper than a proper polish present in the years previous.
But enough moaning! The bike is still going strong, I love to ride it. Only done approximately 12k and just chains and brake pads replaced through wear and tear. Oh, and a rear gear cable which snapped in the usual place, inside the shifter. I went for the non-heatsinked/vented/finned pads when replacing for about half the cost and no noticeable difference in use (commuting, day rides etc on lumpy but not very steep terrain).
I agree on the gearing and also find it too high. I’m planning to reduce the front ring sizes when they need replacing. Size-wise I went for XL with 60cm reach but may have been better with an L, even though I’m 6’2” the additional reach when on the hydro shifter hoods made it a bit uncomfortable. Have since fitted a shorter stem which seems to help.
For future upgrades I’ve a second-hand Ti-railed Brooks B17 ready to replace the current Brooks Flyer (and save 400g!) and am looking at the wheels too, once I lose about 5KG of belly it’ll be easier to justify  
@wafter We must have similar traits. For protecting the frame..... I’ll shamefully admit I wrapped it entirely in non-adhesive black loom tape. This protects it completely and keeps it low-key in the work bike shed but sadly hides any beauty it had. I’ve also experimented with many chain lubes and will probably try your wax method next!


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## Gunk (19 Apr 2020)

Lovely Bike @wafter and a really interesting and detailed review on your first few weeks of ownership.


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## uphillstruggler (28 Apr 2020)

@wafter, good write up. 

i was looking at De Vers for the same bike but i happened across the 2019 CDF 30 for a ridiculous price so bought that instead - it may have been me who bought the one you were looking at.

your review has given me some food for thought and made me realise how technical these bikes are - im the sort who buys and rides tbh.

mine is fantastic, it is so capable and is used for trail, bridleway, tow path and cycle path riding. its opening tracks around where i live that i wouldnt have been able to ride before. 

it will be used for bike packing nights out once we get the clearance to move a little more freely. the only issue i have is the frame bag i have means small bottles although the third set of mounts on the underside of the downtube will compensate.

i hope you enjoy yours as much as i am already


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## SpokeyDokey (8 May 2020)

Really good review and as an almost cured OCD freak I rather admire your attention to detail. Similar standard to the brilliant Hobbes On Tour thread!

About 2 years ago I was looking at Genesis as a possible new bike purchase (ended up with a Trek) and they made a noise on their Website that they didn't buy into rear TA's as the 'flexier' QR made for a slightly more supple ride at the rear. Good to see, imo, the inclusion of the far superior TA at the rear - I wonder what changed their minds?

Can't beat TA's on a disc braked bike for spot on disc alignment when wheels have been off and put back on... and part of my lingering OCD freakiness is that I never did like the way the little toothed QR's dig into the dropouts.  

Love the look of your bike - would've preferred a chunkier looking front fork though. Is a carbon fork available as an extra?

I also like the FD/RD exterior cable routing rather than interior. Is the rear hydro hose internally routed too? Can't stand interior routed rattles - my Trek (Domane ALR 5 Disc) has the cables on the exterior and the hydro internal and thankfully the neat grip devices on the hydro mean no internal rattles.

How have you managed with the FD set up? Presumably the compact R series? My bike came with this although I switched it to the previous 'long arm' version (which still easily clears 32mm tyres and just about clears 35mm tyres) at no cost to myself as neither I nor the supplying LBS (Wheelbase, Cumbria) could get the thing to work properly. As you know (if it is the R series) it has 4 positions but only 3 could be achieved. Trek USA confirmed that set-up was problematic (why did they fit them then?).

I too cannot stand dealer stickers on bikes - especially if they have been slapped on using an eyes-shut method and are misaligned. There goes that OCD thing again - grrrr!

Hope you have many safe and happy miles on your bike.

NB: at some stage Shaun has promised us an add-on to the site that will facilitate write-ups such as yours. I hope we have more budding authors of the same standard on the site that will use it when it finally appears.

NB(2): your write-up shows what a pile of cack the write-ups of cycling mag's and online reviews are. Good effort by you.


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## wafter (8 May 2020)

Thanks guys!

Apologies for letting the thread stagnate; FWIW I've got a load more to add - have found a few more things I'm not happy with, made a few cock-ups myself and am still deliberating over which way to go with the bits I still need to source; pedals, cages, Polar mount etc.

I've also been riding / enjoying the bike a lot which has consumed a lot of my time 



CanucksTraveller said:


> Very thorough review Wafter, well done.
> 
> Of course I'm at the other end of the scale to this level of protecting my bike, I actively want mine to look less new as quickly as possible. It's still just too shiny and pristine for my liking... I don't want it *damaged* per se, I just prefer my bikes to look well used, I worry about it less then. It takes all sorts!
> 
> ...


Thanks 

I'm the same to an extent.. I have no issue with legit wear but can't abide damage; especially if it could have been prevented with a bit of care or forethought. As is plainly obvious from this thread I'm very OCD about my gear and it affects me deeply if it does get dinged - life would be a lot easier if this wasn't the case but it is what it is and try as I might I struggle to change this.

I agree about the dealer stickers in principal - IMO they add a sense of uniqueness and history to a product. I was the same when I had the luxury of being able to own older / interesting cars when I was younger; a reference to the (now maybe deceased) supplying garage adding to the nostalgia.

I'm still undecided on the one on the bike as it's the only bit of yellow on it which IMO grates with the rest of the aesthetic. It'll probably stay though as I don't want to risk damaging the paint by attempting to remove it. In this regard I much prefer yours - more understated, subtly-located and in-keeping with the existing colour scheme!

I hope you're still making the most of yours in the great weather 



cheys03 said:


> I have the Ti model, a rare treat to myself after lusting for a 30 for many months. Bought new before the Ti price went absolutely ridiculous and in the end of season sale. I would not have bought it at the current nearly £4k rrp I can tell you! Initially I was disappointed with some of the small details and I was shocked to see through your review that Genesis haven’t changed some of their habits. Mine arrived with a wonky head badge too for example! The original forks did not have eyes for mudguards, a fault with all the bikes that year. Cue lots of chasing and a 10 week wait for replacements that required a different headset which wasn’t included with the replacements, a further unforgivable oversight by Genesis. At least the sale of the original forks netted a small return for the trouble but I’d have rather it be right from the start. The frame that year is mostly unpolished with a bead blasted finish. Inferior in my eyes and conveniently (for Genesis) cheaper than a proper polish present in the years previous.
> But enough moaning! The bike is still going strong, I love to ride it. Only done approximately 12k and just chains and brake pads replaced through wear and tear. Oh, and a rear gear cable which snapped in the usual place, inside the shifter. I went for the non-heatsinked/vented/finned pads when replacing for about half the cost and no noticeable difference in use (commuting, day rides etc on lumpy but not very steep terrain).
> I agree on the gearing and also find it too high. I’m planning to reduce the front ring sizes when they need replacing. Size-wise I went for XL with 60cm reach but may have been better with an L, even though I’m 6’2” the additional reach when on the hydro shifter hoods made it a bit uncomfortable. Have since fitted a shorter stem which seems to help.
> For future upgrades I’ve a second-hand Ti-railed Brooks B17 ready to replace the current Brooks Flyer (and save 400g!) and am looking at the wheels too, once I lose about 5KG of belly it’ll be easier to justify
> @wafter We must have similar traits. For protecting the frame..... I’ll shamefully admit I wrapped it entirely in non-adhesive black loom tape. This protects it completely and keeps it low-key in the work bike shed but sadly hides any beauty it had. I’ve also experimented with many chain lubes and will probably try your wax method next!


Very nice! While doing my homework I noticed the price of the Ti model has rocketed over the years too; although to be fair some of this could be explained away by the higher-end groupsets on the newer models - the latest coming with full GRX IIRC, which is nice.

That's pretty shocking about the head badge; I'd hoped this was a one-off as it's bloody sloppy on a £1k bike - let alone on a three grand Ti offering such as yours! Did you manage to sort it out? I still plan to bother Genesis about this but want to make sure I cover all the issues in one hit rather than drip-feeding them a litany of issues and making myself even less popular than a single email doubtless will..

As you say the issue with the forks is unforgivable too; glad you got it sorted to your advantage. I really want to like the company as I love their products and the ethos they sell.. While not necessarily against their off-shoring of manufacure to Taiwan (since it's the bike-building capital of the world and produces a lot of top-end stuff) their products are pretty expensive for what they are and I don't want to feel that I'm being taken advantage of; paying through the nose for poorly-made gear that's making massive margins for a company who doesn't really care about the quality of the products they're supplying.

"Only" 12k - that's more than I've covered in my entire life I reckon! Glad to hear the bike's still going strong after this distance; although I'd hope if looked after the frames should effectively last forever. How many miles are you getting out of brake pads and discs out of interest? I notice that (as usual) they're quite a bit cheaper if sourced from Europe and am tempted to get a few spares in the bank if I order anything else from these suppliers.. less point if the bits are going to last for years though. That's unfortunate about the gear cable; I'm guessing they fail in the shifter due to the angles necessary to fit the current "under bar tape" routing...?

The frames certainly seem to come up large. I've gotten used to my Medium now and am glad I went this route, although the bike still feels big compared to my others and the large frame would have been far too big.

The saddle upgrade sounds like a decent way of saving a bit of weight; I'm currently getting on OK with the standard one so will stick with this for the time being although the Brooks certainly seem like a nice addition. I hear the rails prevent a lot of saddle set-back, so that probably rules them out for me as my current one could probably use a bit more as it is.

I fully understand about the frame protection; makes perfect sense tbh and you're a braver man than I using such an expensive and prized possession for commuting! On both my latest bikes I've intended to fit protection tape, but on both occasions have given up trying to assess / decide between what amounts to obscenely over-priced pieces of sticky-backed plastic.

I was dismayed to find a few chips on the underside of the chainstay from chain slap so have a chainstay protector en-route, while the mudguards have proven to be doing an excellent job of keeping the frame pretty clean and free from stonechips 

I'd highly recommend the chain waxing; while a bit of a faff it makes the whole drivetrain so much cleaner and easier to live with. You might be spending a lot of time with the saucepan though if you're covering a lot of miles. I've not really done a "full cycle" with the new bike yet, but on my 10sp Boardman I'm getting around 300 miles per waxing. I have two chains and alternate them; allowing me to do multiple chains (including those from my other bikes) at the same time to make the process a bit more efficient.. not got another chain for the Genesis yet but have had a look and the 11sp items anre bloody expensive aren't they?! 

Anyway, I hope you're still getting out on yours - do you have a thread on it? I'm sure people (myself included) would be interested to see it 



Gunk said:


> Lovely Bike @wafter and a really interesting and detailed review on your first few weeks of ownership.


Thanks chap - glad you found it of interest and I appreciate your encouragement!



uphillstruggler said:


> @wafter, good write up.
> 
> i was looking at De Vers for the same bike but i happened across the 2019 CDF 30 for a ridiculous price so bought that instead - it may have been me who bought the one you were looking at.
> 
> ...


Cheers - and yes; perhaps you were the reason I couldn't get my hands on the 2019 model! In retrospect I'm very glad I bought the bike when I did, since (probably along with everyone else) De Ver's stock appears to have been almost completely cleared out during the pandemic and I'd have been gutted had I missed out on enjoying the riding opportunity we currently have because I was too slow.

tbh I think I probably prefer the colour of the earlier model and would be interested to see some pics of it in the wild!

I'm glad you're liking yours too - I totally agree about the new terrain these bikes open up and have discovered some really nice little routes as a result, as well as slowly learning where to draw the line. It's a hugely versatile format and I've not been out on the road bike since I bought it, although this is partially because I can't be arsed to swap the pedals back over 

One last thing FWIW; if you've not already I'd highly recommend you fit a chainstay protector as mine's already been damaged by chainslap. It's not turned up yet but after a lot of research I settled on one of these, which looks well-made, is British and should just fit from the published size. Will obvously update when it gets here.

Hope you're still finding the time to get out on yours 



SpokeyDokey said:


> Really good review and as an almost cured OCD freak I rather admire your attention to detail. Similar standard to the brilliant Hobbes On Tour thread!
> 
> About 2 years ago I was looking at Genesis as a possible new bike purchase (ended up with a Trek) and they made a noise on their Website that they didn't buy into rear TA's as the 'flexier' QR made for a slightly more supple ride at the rear. Good to see, imo, the inclusion of the far superior TA at the rear - I wonder what changed their minds?
> 
> ...


Thanks 

That's interesting about the QR argument; not heard that one before but tbh sounds like a pretty spurious and flimsy defence for not making the change; perhaps they didn't want the cost and hassle of re-tooling / redesign or maybe they were concerned about TAs fizzling out as a fad rather than becoming the new standard as appears to be the case.

Either way I agree that it's a welcome change.. although sorry to disappoint but the TA still have the serrated faces that mark up the paint finish on (I guess now only one side of) the frame. It pains me to see this too; I thought about adding a washer but the damage is done now and it's probably preferable to having it come loose and result in an accident; as unlikley as this probably is.

It's funny you should mention the fork as I actually really like the skinny aesthetic and think that fat CFRP forks on an otherwise skinny-tubed steel bike look really out of place. While I appreciate that the fork adds a disproportionately large amount of mass to the frameset I specifically wanted a steel one because it seems that CFRP steerer tubes have a nasty habit of failing catastrophically, so steel was the obvious choice for peace of mind and longevity. Before all the composite fanboys start sharpening their knives I realise that these failures are relatively rare, although they are well-documented, often happen without warning, potentially have very serious consequences and are something that simply doesn't occur with steel items outside of massive impacts.

Yes, the FD is the current R7000 unit with the compact arm setup; you raise an interesting point and this is the first I've heard of this problem - do you have any links to any further information on this please?

I did actually spend quite a bit of time setting up the FD a week or so ago as I was pretty dissatisfied with the way it was working. FWIW I followed a mixture of Shimano's (slightly confusing) workshop guide, some stuff on Youtube and my own "intuiation".

From what I can remember the low limit screw is backed right out at the cage's inner-most setting as it's right at the end of its natural travel anyway. There's contact between the limit screw and its stop but in reality the screw is doing very little other than preventing the mech itself from limiting the cage's travel. This was necessary to get adequate clearance between the chain and inside of the cage when running 34/34, and I had to slacken off the clamp-on mount and rotate it slightly to achieve this - IIRC there's about 0.5mm clearance in the lowest gear.

Conversely the high limit screw is wound in quite a bit and I did struggle a little to get acceptable performance / clearance at the extreme ends of the system's operating evelope (34/34 and 50/11), although it's OK now. FWIW the cable tension is set up as per Shimano's guide (assuming I'm interpreting it correctly!) - with the datum lines on the FD assy aligned on the trim setting one down from the main big chainring position.

Both trim functions work fine and are necessary to prevent chain rub in normal use; especially on the big chainring where I find the trim setting is needed when maybe halfway through the rear cassette. I tend to run all the way up to the 2nd or 3rd largest rear sproket on the big ring as I believe these are still more efficient than the equivalent ratios on the small chainring; due to the greater chainring / sprocket diameters and correspondingly lower angular displacement of each chain link as they travel around the rings and sprockets.

Tbh Derailleur adjustment always twists my melon but from the limit screw positions it seems that the FD's operating envelope is currently biased right towards its most inboard settings. I've read that the GRX cranksets have their rings positioned 2.5mm outboard compared to the 105 unit so the GRX FD also has to be used; although my findings would appear to suggest that the 105 FD could potentially accomodate / perhaps even prefer operating in postitions more outboard of where it is currently...?

I was liking the idea of fitting the GRX chainset for the lower ratios it affords, however having used the bike a bit more and become more realistic about where to draw the line regarding how technical / rough the terrain is upon which its used, figure the 105 is fine. Also, I won't lament the cost and efficiency savings of sticking with what I have (although if I go touring something lower for big hills with luggage would be appreciated!). 
As I've posted elsewhere I don't mind dealer stickers per-se and think they can add a certain nostagic charm and character to the bike, although the colour grates a bit in this case. The one on the original bike was definitely earmarked for removal as it was affixed on the pish and creased; giving good excuse and opportunity for removal. This one however appears straight, central and well fitted, so I think it can stay for the time being 

I assume Shaun is part of Genesis? I think a "reviews" section on their site would be an excellent addition, although (as you can probably tell  ) I'm known for speaking my mind so depending on how prissy the company is about protecting its image, might not want to publish my brutally-delivered opinion!

I totally agree about the cycling press; in other hobbies where I'm more knowledgeable I despise the associated media as it's just another cynical and manipulative marketing vehicle dressed up as a friendly ally of the end user.. when really it's just there to deceive then into parting with their money. When getting back into cycling I'd hoped / assumed the press was different; although I've since found this not to be the case 

Anyway, ta for your interest - I'll update the thread with some more progress as / when it happens


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## SpokeyDokey (8 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> Apologies for letting the thread stagnate; FWIW I've got a load more to add - have found a few more things I'm not happy with, made a few cock-ups myself and am still deliberating over which way to go with the bits I still need to source; pedals, cages, Polar mount etc.
> 
> ...



Shaun is the CC site owner and he has plans to add a new section to the site that is pre-formatted for reviews such as yours - not sure when though.

No links re the issue on the FD - mine was a very early doors R series when they were very new, although it seems like only yesterday it was two years back.

I spent 6 hours trying to adjust it after the LBS had already had two goes at it, with no success, and I couldn't do it either. Even with the tension indicators absolutely spot-on I just couldn't get both trim functions to work. I think the tolerances on Shimano mech's are very very tight - 0.5mm is the thin end of absolutely nothing. The work-around of the rubber insert on the inside of the inner guide cage is really indicative of how hard it is to get the correct range of movement and to provide clearance in small/small ie they just can't do it and the noise is cancelled by the insert. My long cage (5701 non-R series also has the insert so it's not a new fix  fudge). Trek USA (chat) were flummoxed too to be honest - as it was early doors they were only just beginning to pick up adjustment issues when I 'spoke' to them. No idea how it has panned out now - I haven't read of many people having R series adjustment problems to be fair.


----------



## wafter (8 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Shaun is the CC site owner and he has plans to add a new section to the site that is pre-formatted for reviews such as yours - not sure when though.
> 
> No links re the issue on the FD - mine was a very early doors R series when they were very new, although it seems like only yesterday it was two years back.
> 
> I spent 6 hours trying to adjust it after the LBS had already had two goes at it, with no success, and I couldn't do it either. Even with the tension indicators absolutely spot-on I just couldn't get both trim functions to work. I think the tolerances on Shimano mech's are very very tight - 0.5mm is the thin end of absolutely nothing. The work-around of the rubber insert on the inside of the inner guide cage is really indicative of how hard it is to get the correct range of movement and to provide clearance in small/small ie they just can't do it and the noise is cancelled by the insert. My long cage (5701 non-R series also has the insert so it's not a new fix  fudge). Trek USA (chat) were flummoxed too to be honest - as it was early doors they were only just beginning to pick up adjustment issues when I 'spoke' to them. No idea how it has panned out now - I haven't read of many people having R series adjustment problems to be fair.


Ahh, cool. In that case I'd be very happy for my review to be included 

Terrifying how time flies, isn't it? What exactly was the issue with the trim functions - could you not feel them "clicking over" at the levers, were they physically not moving the cage or just not moving it enough to be effective? 

I hear you with the tight tolerances; As mine is setup (which I believe gives as wider-range of movement as possible) there's still very little clearance between chain and cage at either extreme of the travel range. Maybe even insufficient at the top end but I use this less than the granny gear so it's a tradeoff I'm willing to take. 

I'm not sure criticism of the insert it totally fair since presumably it also reduces noice when legitimately in contact with the chain (i.e. when shifting) while it's also a conveniently replaceable wear component.

I guess it's the usual case of there being no such thing as a free lunch; the consumer's apparent insatiable lust for more gears (if maybe most driven only by manufacturers' marketing divisions) means more critical tolerancing and setup, shorter component life, greater component cost and various other design compromises. 

I'm interested to hear more, although hopefully the issue only afflicted earlier iterations and has been resolved by those hyper-efficient Japanese by now!


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## SpokeyDokey (8 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Ahh, cool. In that case I'd be very happy for my review to be included
> 
> Terrifying how time flies, isn't it? What exactly was the issue with the trim functions - could you not feel them "clicking over" at the levers, were they physically not moving the cage or just not moving it enough to be effective?
> 
> ...



I could set it up with the two 'normal' positions but only with either one of the two trim positions - but not both.


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## wafter (8 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I could set it up with the two 'normal' positions but only with either one of the two trim positions - but not both.


Ahh, OK - so they were physically "working" but you could only get one where it was effective? Sounds like a geometry problem with the levers or mech tbh; so potentially something that could be sorted with a revision rather than being a fundamental issue with the design. I certainly hope it's not the latter anyway as Shimano are one of the few companies I have any respect for / feel I can trust to make some decent kit!


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## uphillstruggler (12 May 2020)

@wafter 

Just for you, not quite wild though


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## wafter (12 May 2020)

uphillstruggler said:


> @wafter
> 
> Just for you, not quite wild though
> View attachment 521765


Ta - looks nice from what I can see! I like the red and reckon it goes better with the skinwall tyres.. 

That shot was met with a moment of abject confusion before I realised the "cows" were inanimate


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## uphillstruggler (12 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Ta - looks nice from what I can see! I like the red and reckon it goes better with the skinwall tyres..
> 
> That shot was met with a moment of abject confusion before I realised the "cows" were inanimate



It’s what MK is famous for, that and roundabouts 😂

On the other hand, this image was taken about 3.5miles away


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## Chris Long (18 May 2020)

I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...


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## uphillstruggler (18 May 2020)

Chris Long said:


> I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...



just had a quick mosey onto their site, very good choice


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## wafter (18 May 2020)

Chris Long said:


> I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...


I think I gave them a look before I committed to the Genesis. 

They look really nice - love the retro aesthetic / more traditional top tube angle, but was put off by some of the spec compared to the CdF (flat-mount calipers and through-axles were a big sell to me) while it was a bit over-budget too. 

Not surprised you're very pleased with it


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## wafter (20 May 2020)

A little progress and a lot of ridling means an update is probably in order 

I've now had the CdF for five weeks and have covered over 600 miles in this time. I've been trying to get the bike as I like it; through setup, adding some decent accessories and sorting some of the small issues I've not been happy with.

I've also suffered some setbacks / cockups. I was gutted to find a couple of chips on the underside of the chainstay from chain slap, and while Genesis publish a list of paint codes that give (exact / approximate) matches for the colours used on their bikes, sadly they don't list anything for this model. I'm going to drop them an email at some point of the off-chance that this info might be available in future, but failing that I think I'll look to touch the frame up with the nearest colour I can find in enamel paint to prevent the chance of any corrosion.. unless anyone has any better suggestions!

The eagle-eyed of you may have noticed something amiss with the chain routing on my rear derailleur in some of the early pics. This is because I managed to pass it over the outside of the top retaining tab on the cage, rather than inside / over the jockey wheel. Unfortunately this was only noticed a ride ot two later (when investigating why the shifting and pedalling smoothness was not as it should have been), by which time the chain had worn a couple of slots in the edges of the tab on the cage 

I've since dressed this damage down and touched up the area in question with a bit of black acrylic paint. To say I'm both angry and ashamed by this cockup would be an understatement. However it's done now, doesn't harm the function of the RD, isn't noticeable in use and is at least on a replaceable part which could be changed if my OCD really demanded it.


Confessions out of the way we can move onto (mostly!) happier things!

As is painfully apparant from this thread I'm picky about what I spend my money on and this is reflected by the quest for the various accessories required by the bike; which so far has taken hours of research and deliberation over what to buy and where to source it from. As usual things haven't been plain sailing due to a few issues with delivery and product quality, but I'm slowly getting there.

Yesterday saw the arrival of a long-awaited delivery, which felt like a tipping point in the battle of getting the bike how I want it.. So after fitting the new bits I took the camera out with me to get some pics of bike as it stands 

I'm generally happy with the quality of the bike's finiishing kit, the one exception being its seatpost clamp. As already covered the clamp arrived with a good burr on the inside edge of the bore that slips over he frame; which had caused signficant paint damage through being forced on and tightend up during assembly. Added to this the angled cut in the clamp across its clamping bolt seemingly applies unever pressure to the frame; concentrating load in one corner of its slot (the RHS) and damaging the corresponding area of the seatpost 











I spent ages looking at all sorts of clamps; a process complicated to an extent by the relatively few available in the steel-specific size of 30mm, since most are larger to suit thicker-walled ally frames.

Ultimately it came down to a choice between Hope and Salsa items. While it would have been nice to have bought the British offering, I wasn't too keen on its aesthetic and the deal-killer was their use of a hollow clamping bolt - which apparent has a rep for being a bit fragile. A ridiculous design compromise in the name of saving literally one or two grams IMO, so I went with the Salsa alternative.

As usual this proved less than straightforward, with none of the necessary size / colour in the UK so I eventually sourced one from Bike24.de; at a good price and with reasonable postage that was shared with the Polar GPS mount I also bought from them. I can't fault the service from this supplier and the stuff was dispatched very quickly; however unfortunately I was out when delivery was attempted on Friday, which led to hours of chasing DHL as they left no calling card and their websites / phone services are pretty dismal 

This little piece of ally has brought me a silly amount of joy and contentment; being one of the few items I've bought that for once has exceeded my expectations. It's nicely designed, beautifully machined, perfectly finished and has around 16mm internal depth as opposed to the minimal 9mm of the original; thus spreading the clamping load over a much larger area which should be kinder to the components involved.

It fits well and only needed a little persuasion to slip over the seatpost. For now it's been nipped up to 5Nm (as per the original) but has a larger M5 (v. M4) bolt so may require a little more (especially considering its size); although it held perfectly during yesterday's ride.







Before fitting I cleaned the frame and ran over its inside edge with a jeweller's file as it was slightly sharp. I can confirm that the Reynolds 725 is definitely a fair bit harder than your average / as-received steel; in keeping with it's "heat-treated" claim. I wonder how welding affects its temper and whether the frames are subject to any additional heat treatement after construction..?


The next nice addition was the Polar "out front" mount for my V650 GPS unit. I already have one of these on my Boardman so knew what to expect; again it's nicely machined from the solid (although this is probably a bit wasteful given it's shape), well-finished and places the GPS unit in a more convenient forward position - both for observation and in terms of leaving space on the bars for more paraphanalia. The free space on the stem is also welcome as this is a convenient place to grip the bike when wheeling it around..

The mount after being fitted with some PVC tape to prevent marking of the bars and being tweaked into position:







New bits attached I went out for a slow ride around the local cycle paths, woods and lakes. The bike as it currently stands:







GPS unit in place on its new mount, fitted to the fairly wide and expansive flared bars. I'm still not 100% sold on these due to their long reach and find myself gripping just forward of the bends / backs of the hoods in normal use as the reach to the hoods is a bit much - especially in terms of inspriring confidence off-road. The drops are the preferred choice for technical bits and descents, while the hoods do offer a nice stretched-out aero-ish position for big efforts on smooth flat surfaces with their knobs gripped and forearms resting on the tops of the bars. The backs of the drops are well-positioned for coasting comfortably at speed on unchallenging terrain.






I've toyed with the idea of either more compact bars from an earlier model or reducing the stem length by maybe 10-20mm, however appreciate that the gains this would bring in some areas would be to the detriment of others. from an aero perspective I like the fairly stretched-out position afforded by the long reach to the bars on this otherwise quite upright bike, am tight and change-averse so don't see a lot being altered unless I happen to see a nice stem at a silly price.


My lovely Moon Pulsar rear light. Not a new purchase; being sourced some time ago as a general purpose lamp for all my bikes. I was particularly taken by this light as it's small, light, bright has a great mounting system that's versatile; fast and easy to swap between bikes. It takes AAA batteries - allowing me to use standard rechargeables, carry spares and even use dirty disposibles if I was really pushed. This was one of the last removable-battery-powered lights I could find; everything now being USB-rechargeable and meaning realistically they have to be removed from the bike for charging, are dead once the internal battery's had it and leave you screwed if they run out of juice on a ride. 

I only paid a tenner for this light and bought the last two the supplier had in stock, so have a spare should this one fail, although it's been grand so far 







Some time after the photo-stop in the sun-scorched fields above I found myself in the shady tranqulity of some local woodland so stopped for a few more shots.







my old faithful Shimano A600 pedals; swapped over from my Boardman while I try to find some suitable items for the CdF. I'd pretty much settled on a pair of new XT items, however the idea of another set of A600s has grown on me as the more frequent on-off nature of "gravel" riding has afforded more practice clipping in than I've had on long road rides, while I'm now a bit more confident and aware of my limitations off-road so single-sided pedals seem more viable.






The new XTs are about £70 while I can get a used pair of A600s for around £25 (made me sick to see a nice pair sold on ebay some weeks ago for £7!). While I'm a picky sod I have no issue buying used pedals as they only get mashed up are impossible to keep in nice nick..


Another necessary purchase was a chainstay protector. As usual this was far from straightforward due to size constraints (particularly the skinny chainstay compared to that of most MTBs). This plain Neoprene / Velcro one came from Undead Cycles; being reasonably priced and reputedly made in Britain. Clearance is a bit tight at the tyre and it's a bit baggy around the back end, but seems to do the job nicely - although I'll be having it off soon just to be sure everything's well underneath!






(Continued in next post due to image count limits..)


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## wafter (20 May 2020)

...ctd.

I like the understated green-on-green branding used across most of the frame:







Even the Reynolds 725 badge has been altered to remain in-keeping with the colour scheme, which is a nice touch. The white "Reynolds" text reflecting that used on the main Genesis text and logo on the down tube and fork. The yellow of the dealer sticker is somewhat incongruous, but I think it adds character so it can stay.







The subtle branding is also evident at the bottom of the chainstays:






Note also in the above pic the 15mm washers used at the mudguard stay mounting points to protect them and the frame, as well as the lovely clean waxed drivetrain 

The "dork disk" (as the yanks like to call them) remains in place; while not too keen on its aesthetic is adds very little mass and if it prevents / reduces the change of catastrophic damage in the event of a disaster it's very welcome to stay!


There are a few nice aesthetic touches on the bike, including these nice contour map / relief details on the steerer-tube cap, bars and seatpost:







The saddle is nicely shaped and generally comfy; with the exception that I get a bit of perineal pressure when right forward on the bars - although I think my poor flexability is as much to blame as anything. The seatpost appears good quality with a nice two-bolt setup that allows fine adjustment of the saddle's rake, although fore-aft adjustment is fairly limited and I'd have liked a bit more rearward offset than the maximum the unit allows.






Unfortunately the clamping bolts appear to be a bit too long, as evidenced by the front one chewing up the underside of the saddle with only a little forward-slope applied to the seat  5mm shorter bolts would have made this a non-issue.


The bike came with WTB Riddler tyres; which nice as they are were wearing fast due to their predoment use on tarmac and fine-ish tread pattern. I've replaced them with a pair of Continental SportContact IIs; which roll very nicely on-road while offering a surprising amount of grip off-road considering they're essentially slicks. As an aside, as much as I like the retro gumwalls on the WTBs I think I prefer to lower-key aesthetic of the all-black contis.

I've done maybe 350-400 miles on them so far; the fine tread has just about worn off the centre of the rear tyre in this time and I've had one pinch-puncture, which tbh would probably have happened to any tubed tyre under the circumstances.






the SKS Longboard guards continue to do and excellent job of keeping the bike clean and free of stonechips; my only complaints being that the plastic picks up lots of fine scratches during cleaning (unsurprisingly really and completely forgiveable) while the front guard sits high above the wheel, but this isn't the end of the world. On the whole I remain very happy with them.


From the front the extent of the bars' flare can be seen, as well as the considerable outboard position of the 105 brake / shifter levers - which nicely aids operation. Less immediately noticeable is the pished head badge; which sits off to the RHS (LHS as viewed in the pic) - sloppy and inexcusible on a bike of this price tbh and something I'll be whinging about to the manufacturer.







I think that's about all for now. So far (a few niggles aside) I've thoroughly enjoyed my time on the bike; it having opened up a whole new world of off-road routes to explore. I'm slowly getting more comfortable with riding away from the tarmac and now have a much better idea of the limitations of both myself and the cycle.

When researching this purchase the CdF 30 stood out as ticking pretty much all of the boxes, and I'm pleased to say that this still seems to be the case. While I love the sturdyness and aesthetic of the steel frame, in use standout features are the very useful 34/34 crawler gear and the sublime hydraulic brakes; which now they've bedded in constantly impress with their lightness of operation and ease of modulation.

There are still a number of things to sort out before I'll be completely happy with the bike - touch up the chips on the chainstay, replace some of the fixings with stainless alternatives and source some bottle cages.. I did buy a pair of Topeak Shuttle ally cages but these turned out to be pished / poorly made so they have to go back, although the supplier in question is currently dragging their arses and I suspect I might have to get Paypal on the case. A shame as otherwise they looked spot on 


Anyway, I hope this thread continues to provide some interest / entertainment to those with the stones to wade throught it all, as well as hopefully providing some useful information to anyone in the market for one of these excellent machines or the bits I've slung on my example


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## chriswoody (20 May 2020)

Great review wafter and a nice bike, good to see you're out and about enjoying it.

One thing I'm curious about is the chain slap you mention, you've got the GRX derailleur on there which should have a clutch and as such eliminate or minimise chain slap. My SRAM derailleur has a clutch and no matter how rough the ground I've never heard any chain slap at all, which is why I'm surprised to hear your suffering from chain slap with the GRX. I think you can switch the clutch on and off with Shimano derailleurs and was wondering if yours is actually switched on?


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## wafter (20 May 2020)

chriswoody said:


> Great review wafter and a nice bike, good to see you're out and about enjoying it.
> 
> One thing I'm curious about is the chain slap you mention, you've got the GRX derailleur on there which should have a clutch and as such eliminate or minimise chain slap. My SRAM derailleur has a clutch and no matter how rough the ground I've never heard any chain slap at all, which is why I'm surprised to hear your suffering from chain slap with the GRX. I think you can switch the clutch on and off with Shimano derailleurs and was wondering if yours is actually switched on?


Thanks 😊

I thought similar about the chainslap. The first time it happened you’re absolutely correct that I didn’t have the clutch engaged and rode over some pretty rough ground so (while gutting) it wasn’t a surprise to find the damage.

However, since then I’ve religiously used the clutch yet the damage appears to have slightly worsened (before I taped a bit of old innertube around the chainstay); with what appears to be another chip intersecting one of the originals and a couple of smaller witness marks that have damaged the paint but not resulted in chips.

I agree with your points about the GRX derailleur – trying to replicate slap off the bike by banging it on the ground / trying to push the chain up towards the frame results in it coming nowhere close. The damage is definitely from the chain though, from the spacing of the impact points.

The only other explanation I can think of is that it’s less slap more suck as I do have a habit of shifting both deralleurs at once (when I need to switch chainrings) and am wondering if this could be contributing.

Either way I’m hoping that the belt-and-braces chainstay protector should prevent any more damage!


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## newfhouse (20 May 2020)

wafter said:


> I taped a bit of old innertube around the chainstay


Does your sofa look like this?






Please don’t think I am having a go, I am really enjoying your write-ups.  
I guess I have a different outlook on how pristine my bikes need to be.


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## CXRAndy (20 May 2020)

This is where bare Ti has the new look preserved. Scratches, marks can be lightly rubbed away with a Scotch pad.

Id got a few marks from leaning against walls and packing tbe bike in a bike box, 10 mins later marks gone


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## wafter (21 May 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Does your sofa look like this?
> View attachment 523595
> 
> 
> ...


lol - no it's a tatty old leather item courtesy of freecycle, as it happens 

Granted I'm certainly closer to the obsessive end of the wide spectrum of attitudes we have towards caring for possessions; but in the case of the chainstay - surely for the sake of 10 minutes and zero pounds making something / a fiver on a ready-made item it's worth protecting the most expensive part of an expensive bike from damage; especially if this damage is likely to result in corrosion and ultimately death?

I've considered frame tape but even my OCD didn't stretch that far (partially because of the cost, hassle and uncertainty in sourcing and fitting it) but tbh I can't understand the mentality of those who refuse to take basic / straightforward / easy steps to prolong the life of their gear.. or worse actively abuse / neglect it.



CXRAndy said:


> This is where bare Ti has the new look preserved. Scratches, marks can be lightly rubbed away with a Scotch pad.
> 
> Id got a few marks from leaning against walls and packing tbe bike in a bike box, 10 mins later marks gone


Indeed - sadly Ti would have doubled my already dubiously-justifiable budget..


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## Randomnerd (21 May 2020)

Things are finite. They have a life. They are just things. At a deep psychological level, allowing some decay, damage and wear into our lives is essential. IMHO.


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## stoatsngroats (21 May 2020)

I love the detailed write up, and can empathise with Wafters attention to detail. This is a lovely looking cycle and your changes have made improvements to it aesthetically, imho.
I’m keen to learn what the warranty is for Genesis frames and forks, and what you think of the weight as yours is currently?


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## wafter (21 May 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> I love the detailed write up, and can empathise with Wafters attention to detail. This is a lovely looking cycle and your changes have made improvements to it aesthetically, imho.
> I’m keen to learn what the warranty is for Genesis frames and forks, and what you think of the weight as yours is currently?


Thanks - I appreciate your kind words and it's nice to know I'm not alone in my proclivities 

Somewhat disappointingly I believe the warranty is only a year; which suprises me given the image and market segment they're courting, but there you go. Hopefully this isn't a reflection of the build quality!

Just for you, the bike's currently weighing in at 12.60kg basically as pictured / specced in this thread, but without a water bottle (and with the supplied bell now fitted!). When it arrived it came in at 11.30kg with no pedals, but obviously since then I've added quite a few bits and the new tyres are a bit heavier than the originals. 

Apparently the fork weighs something like 1.3kg on its own and they do a CFRP one for about £300 that loses something like 800g; however nice as this would be, one of the draws to the bike was its steel fork and correspondingly much reduced worry over future steerer-tube failure..


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 May 2020)

I'm surprised at the weight of the fork, TBH. Especially as the rest of the frame is Reynolds. That seems to be in rigid MTB territory. Is it extra beefy just because it's disc-braked?
Tomorrow I'm going to have to weigh a Raleigh Pioneer hi-tensile unicrown one and the traditional brazed one off my Ian May 531ST frame and see how they compare. Curiosity has now got the better of me!


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## wafter (25 May 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm surprised at the weight of the fork, TBH. Especially as the rest of the frame is Reynolds. That seems to be in rigid MTB territory. Is it extra beefy just because it's disc-braked?
> Tomorrow I'm going to have to weigh a Raleigh Pioneer hi-tensile unicrown one and the traditional brazed one off my Ian May 531ST frame and see how they compare. Curiosity has now got the better of me!


I've not weighed it myself but IIRC that's what I've read quoted. Similarly I've also read that disc-braked forks need to be built stronger on account of this; although I'm not wholly convinced by this argument... have had a couple of stabs at a free-body diagram of the forces in my head but can't quite get there!

Your mention of MTB territory might not be too wide of the mark; could be that given the bike isn't intended to be used strictly on tarmac that it's assessed (relative to the relevant ISO standards) as an MTB; while it seems that said standards are largely disliked for making modern steel MTB frames heavy. 

It would obviously be nice if the bike was lighter but it's not a deal-killer and given the bike's use / my desire to make it last forever I'm happy to take the mass penalty in return for greater durability


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 May 2020)

FWIW, I weighed my Ian May touring forks, which are stickered as 531 but not what variant. The rest of the frame is stickered 531ST, and it's a 23" size, and bare it weighs 760g or 1.675 lbs.. Maybe @rogerzilla would like to confirm whether the fork weight is in the right ball park for standard 531? Not had a chance to weigh the Pioneer unicrown yet, which is probably a better comparison.


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## rogerzilla (25 May 2020)

I'm not much good on fork weights, I'm afraid. That sounds light, though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 May 2020)

Curiosity got the better of me so I weighed a selection from my donor spares pile:-

Raleigh 18-23 hi-tensile brazed road fork, 1" quill, 25" frame, 27"/700c wheels = 950g
Apollo hi-tensile unicrown hybrid fork, 1 1/8" quill, 19" frame, 700c wheel = 1,300g 
Giant hi-tensile unicrown MTB fork, 1" quill, 19" frame, 26" wheel = 1130g.


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## Randomnerd (25 May 2020)

Can’t be much on telly at Skipdiver Towers


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 May 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> Can’t be much on telly at Skipdiver Towers



There's rarely much worth watching on TV these days. Mostly a load of dross.


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## wafter (25 May 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Apollo hi-tensile unicrown hybrid fork, 1 1/8" quill, 19" frame, 700c wheel = 1,300g


Sounds like I'm in classy company then 

I'd be happy to play, but hopefully it'll be a long time before I have reason to have the fork out of the frame!


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## AndyRM (27 May 2020)

Excellent write up and photographs.


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## Scottish Scrutineer (2 Jun 2020)

Really comprehensive review and write up. I have a CdF 30 of 2018 vintage and agree that the updates of flat mount brakes and thru-axles are a nice development having upgraded my wife's 2016 CdF to a GRX Groupset (which involved a bit of head scratching about the brakes).

An alternative chainset option would be a Praxis Works with 48/32 rings. These work with the Shimano derailleur and give a useful reduction in gear ratios across the range. Indeed I have these chainsets on my CdF and my Equilibruim. I too find it rare to max out on the highest gear and it was interesting to note that last night's ride on my carbon with 50-11 was no faster on a long downhill where i was pushing as hard as possible, than I had achieved a few days earlier with my 48-11 on the Equilibrium.


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## wafter (9 Jun 2020)

Cheers guys 



Scottish Scrutineer said:


> Really comprehensive review and write up. I have a CdF 30 of 2018 vintage and agree that the updates of flat mount brakes and thru-axles are a nice development having upgraded my wife's 2016 CdF to a GRX Groupset (which involved a bit of head scratching about the brakes).
> 
> An alternative chainset option would be a Praxis Works with 48/32 rings. These work with the Shimano derailleur and give a useful reduction in gear ratios across the range. Indeed I have these chainsets on my CdF and my Equilibruim. I too find it rare to max out on the highest gear and it was interesting to note that last night's ride on my carbon with 50-11 was no faster on a long downhill where i was pushing as hard as possible, than I had achieved a few days earlier with my 48-11 on the Equilibrium.


Nice work - what did you go for with the brakes in the end; something post-mount from Shimano's MTB range? 

Thanks for the suggestion of the Praxisworks crank; however tbh the 50/34 is proving workable currently and certainly not causing sufficient-enough of an issue to warrant chucking money at replacing the crank. It's certainly not ideal mind as I use the bottom end far more than the top!

Sounds like your family's a Genesis-convert and I can appreciate why; few niggles aside I'm really loving mine and tbh now with a little over 1k miles under its belt I can think of few things I'd change even given the ability to re-design the bike from the ground up


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## Scottish Scrutineer (12 Jun 2020)

wafter said:


> Cheers guys
> 
> 
> Nice work - what did you go for with the brakes in the end; something post-mount from Shimano's MTB range?


I fitted post mount brakes, a non-series road version IIRC. 
I do like the sub-compact chainrings, they bring the overall gearing down but without huge steps between the ratios. Rarely spin out on moderate downhills, and indeed I’m as quick on the Equilibrium with the sub-compact as my carbon which has a compact on a local straight downhill


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## Scottish Scrutineer (15 Jun 2020)

Scottish Scrutineer said:


> I fitted post mount brakes, a non-series road version IIRC.


*Update* The hydraulic brakes I fitted were Shimano BR-R785


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## Gen853 (19 Jun 2020)

New member here. Just to say, what an excellent and helpful thread. Ive just bought a freshly built privateer build from eBay using a 853 2019 CdF frame and 105 Groupset as a result of this review. My first non mountain bike for nearly 30 years and at about 30 miles in am delighted so far. Thank you for the helpful review!

Charlie


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## SkipdiverJohn (20 Jun 2020)

So steel bikes aren't all obsolete after all........ 853 is a very high spec tubeset, makes 531 look low-end in comparison.


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## wafter (20 Jun 2020)

Scottish Scrutineer said:


> *Update* The hydraulic brakes I fitted were Shimano BR-R785


Cool - IIRC these were what Genesis fitted as standard to the CdF 30 before they switched to the 105 / flat mount format on 2019 and 2020 bikes so should be the same as yours 



Gen853 said:


> New member here. Just to say, what an excellent and helpful thread. Ive just bought a freshly built privateer build from eBay using a 853 2019 CdF frame and 105 Groupset as a result of this review. My first non mountain bike for nearly 30 years and at about 30 miles in am delighted so far. Thank you for the helpful review!
> 
> Charlie


Thanks! Glad to hear you're so happy with your new bike and that you found this thread helpful. That was to an extent my intention in posting as I'd really have appreciated something similar before I took the plunge, since "official" reviews are scant (couldn't find one anywhere of the 2019+ CdF 30 / 853 frame configuration) and you can never really be sure how trustworthy they are in any case. 

welcome to CdF ownership


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## Gen853 (21 Jun 2020)

wafter said:


> Cool - IIRC these were what Genesis fitted as standard to the CdF 30 before they switched to the 105 / flat mount format on 2019 and 2020 bikes so should be the same as yours
> 
> 
> Thanks! Glad to hear you're so happy with your new bike and that you found this thread helpful. That was to an extent my intention in posting as I'd really have appreciated something similar before I took the plunge, since "official" reviews are scant (couldn't find one anywhere of the 2019+ CdF 30 / 853 frame configuration) and you can never really be sure how trustworthy they are in any case.
> ...



Thank you. I got out for a 30 miler yesterday morn, lots of climbing, lots of poor road surface and tiny lanes, some gravel and even a mile or so of just grass. The bike did everything asked of it comfortably and well. I bought it to explore the Dales with and I wanted more speed and comfort to do it than my mountain bike gave me, without loosing the ability to explore off the road. Feels like it’s going to be perfect.


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## wafter (21 Jun 2020)

Gen853 said:


> Thank you. I got out for a 30 miler yesterday morn, lots of climbing, lots of poor road surface and tiny lanes, some gravel and even a mile or so of just grass. The bike did everything asked of it comfortably and well. I bought it to explore the Dales with and I wanted more speed and comfort to do it than my mountain bike gave me, without loosing the ability to explore off the road. Feels like it’s going to be perfect.
> 
> 
> View attachment 531364


Looks really nice that 

Is it a 2019 frame? I briefly looked at one of these as it was a lot cheaper than this year's (while functionally the same) and I prefer the colour too.


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## Gen853 (21 Jun 2020)

wafter said:


> Looks really nice that
> 
> Is it a 2019 frame? I briefly looked at one of these as it was a lot cheaper than this year's (while functionally the same) and I prefer the colour too.



Yes, it’s the 2019 853 frame. Identical in all but colour I gather. I also prefer the colour

Charlie


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## wafter (23 Jun 2020)

Just a quick(!) update for what it's worth. There's not a lot to report really - the Genesis continues to forge reliably ahead, having just ticked over 1250 recorded miles since I bought it around 10wks ago. The chain is currently enjoying its fifth wax bath, having been tested with a Shimano chain wear tool prior to removal; suggesting it has plenty of life left in it yet 

The mudguards have taken a bit of a beating with a few impacts to the trailing edge of the front one on uneven ground; the rubber skirt holding up well but the substrate of the guard itself getting a little bent in places; with one impact having been enough to pop out the quick-release safety fixings at the fork (losing one stay end cap in the process, although I've recently ordered some more from Germany).

The glossy black plastic finish of the guards is also suffering a bit too; acquiring many radial micro-scratches all over as a result of getting covered in dust and subsequently washed / wiped off. There are some larger (but still shallow) scrapes on the rear guard (where I failed to get my leg over ) and the rear of the front guard where my left shoe occasionally makes contact upon starting off due to a bit too much toe overlap.

All that said the guards certainly don't look tatty and continue to do an excellent job of protecting the frame so I remain very happy with them 


Having removed the chainstay protector after the bike got damp I found a bit of damage (apparently from chain impacts and wear from the moulding flashes on the rear tyre) and have been left a little dubious of its ability to protect the chainstay fully; so have lashed a couple of bits of old innertube underneath; although I'm not sure if they're still where I left them!

In addition to the chips on the chainstay from slap, I also managed to pick up a gash in the paint on the downtube from an unknown incident recently; however while annoying it's only gone through the top layer of paint so presents no danger of corrosion. I'm still struggling for paint as I'm yet to find anywhere that can mix the correct colours; hampered by the fact that many places I've emailed haven't responded.. either through being closed or just ignorant I guess 

I also managed to put a sizeable scrap on the NDS crankarm when not paying attention and dropping off a bit of poorly-laid cycle track recently. Very angry at myself for doing so, but these things happen and the bike's age and mileage is cementing its image in my mind as a cossetted workhorse rather than a minty fresh new purchase. Not sure whether to try and touch up the damage or just leave it, since I'll never match the original anodised finish.


Having now given the bike a thorough shakedown I now feel well positioned to email Genesis re. the few issues I have had with it; in the spirit of helping to improve their future products as well as hopefully sorting one or two niggles I have with it.

I remain very happy with the bike on the whole as I've certainly been getting my money's worth out of it, while it's allowed me to do exactly what I'd hoped in getting off the beaten track a bit more - including making a few utility journeys that I'd have been reluctant to have done on the road bike. In the absence of a car this additional versatility has also helped maintain a sense of independence; being able to cover reasonable distances without relying on others.


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## gareth01244 (23 Jun 2020)

I have a genesis equilibrium, bought it a few years back as a frameset and it came with a small pot of touch up paint, might be worth speaking to genesis to see if it's something that they still do.


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## wafter (23 Jun 2020)

gareth01244 said:


> I have a genesis equilibrium, bought it a few years back as a frameset and it came with a small pot of touch up paint, might be worth speaking to genesis to see if it's something that they still do.


Thanks - I'll certainly be asking but I think the best they can manage now is publishing the paint codes / specs (which I suppose is better than most brands)


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## wafter (6 Aug 2020)

A quick update; I'm now up to around 1800 miles on the bike and still enjoying it; however over the past few hundred miles the bottom bracket has developed a telltale creaking under load on the pedal strokes, which is disappointing 

Ironically one of the reasons I bought this bike was for the (supposed) superiority of the threaded BB over the dreaded PF30 on my road bike; which has made it past this mileage with no grief. 

Looks like I'm about to find out how good their warranty cover is; I hope they don't try to fob me off with the "it's a wear part" argument.. no way in my mind that a BB start to die after such relatively little time, mileage or abuse.


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## stoatsngroats (6 Aug 2020)

@wafter surprised to read about your BB so soon!
In part because of your interesting review, and also having looked closely in 2018 at a London Freeride led ride from the suburbs, I’ve been looking at Genesis for my next bike. I have to say, I’m really pleased to be picking a 2021 CdA 30 up this weekend, a GRX/Tiagra equipped Model, which is exciting.
So, in a word, Thanks! 😀


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## wafter (6 Aug 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> @wafter surprised to read about your BB so soon!
> In part because of your interesting review, and also having looked closely in 2018 at a London Freeride led ride from the suburbs, I’ve been looking at Genesis for my next bike. I have to say, I’m really pleased to be picking a 2021 CdA 30 up this weekend, a GRX/Tiagra equipped Model, which is exciting.
> So, in a word, Thanks! 😀


Thanks and yes, a bit crap isn't it? Also the bike came from London and I suspect the cost of getting it back there for inspection (in terms of time, fuel and mental health) would probably exceed that of just replacing the BB... although from their design I understand they can suffer from misalignment so (espeically factoring in Shimano's usually excellent product quality) chances are this has been caused by an issue with the frame... don't really fancy having a load of the paint shaved off to true up the BB shell 

On the up-side I'm glad this thread maybe helped your decision - I bet you can't wait! 

Enjoy your new ride


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## stoatsngroats (6 Aug 2020)

Yes, I’m afraid, I cannot wait! Especially as my Cyclescheme arrangement took 2 months to be received ( don’t let that put anyone off, it generally works pretty quickly - mine was delayed due to an incorrect request, and a reimbursement to my organisation before they could finalise the revised value!) and I could see many of my choices being sold out.
Still, I have managed to gain, because I think for my planned use GRX will be really interesting to use on the South Downs, and other local rural and coastal routes, as well as my 16 mile commute.
Maybe I will follow your fantastic review with one, in a similar vein, on the CdA 30 😂


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## cheys03 (6 Aug 2020)

Sorry Wafter, I haven’t responded to your queries. Most unfair of me given all your hard work here. Once the wonky head badge was covered by tape I forgot all about it.... but I still know it’s there if I see the outline under tape. I think the pads lasted a good 8,000mi if not a bit more and not replaced the discs yet, not too bad overall. My commute doesn’t have many junctions or lights so guess that helps. I moved the saddle forward a bit while helped with the fit.
Regards the BB, it’s been a curse of mine for a while. I remove the crankset, grease everything, replace and re-torque then it’s good for another couple of hundred miles before the unmistakable creaks return a bit at a time. I had it apart again two nights ago and this time chose to remove the bearings from the frame too while there. The thread in the near side bearing was partially stripped. I can’t recall having taken it off before, but may be mistaken. The alternative is that Genesis or the assembler knackered it which is a bit scary. I managed to tidy the aluminium threads up enough to refit carefully with some grease on the threads. I’m hoping this cures it for a good while, but not ridden yet and need a few weeks of use to be sure.

Well done for racking up so many miles in the few months you’ve had it! Brilliant!


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## cheys03 (16 Sep 2020)

cheys03 said:


> I’m hoping this cures it for a good while, but not ridden yet and need a few weeks of use to be sure.


Update: after 6 weeks though only a couple of hundred miles, no signs of clicking or creaking whatsoever. This is better than usual so I’m recording that as a win for greasing the BB bearing threads that screw in to the frame. Fingers crossed it continues!


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## uphillstruggler (30 Oct 2020)

wafter said:


> A quick update; I'm now up to around 1800 miles on the bike and still enjoying it; however over the past few hundred miles the bottom bracket has developed a telltale creaking under load on the pedal strokes, which is disappointing
> 
> Ironically one of the reasons I bought this bike was for the (supposed) superiority of the threaded BB over the dreaded PF30 on my road bike; which has made it past this mileage with no grief.
> 
> Looks like I'm about to find out how good their warranty cover is; I hope they don't try to fob me off with the "it's a wear part" argument.. no way in my mind that a BB start to die after such relatively little time, mileage or abuse.



I too had issues with the bottom bracket creaking, normally I would do the work myself but I don’t have the correct tool to remove the BB/crank so I emailed Genesis/freewheel. They got back straight away. I took it to my local dealer at their expense and had it sorted

silence is bliss


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## Scottish Scrutineer (2 Nov 2020)

cheys03 said:


> Update: after 6 weeks though only a couple of hundred miles, no signs of clicking or creaking whatsoever. This is better than usual so I’m recording that as a win for greasing the BB bearing threads that screw in to the frame. Fingers crossed it continues!


I must say that I usually grease the threads and the frame face on the BB whenever I replace them. If nothing else, it generally makes them easire to remove as well as being good engineering practice to ensure friction is minimised whilst tightening.


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## cheys03 (2 Nov 2020)

Scottish Scrutineer said:


> I must say that I usually grease the threads and the frame face on the BB whenever I replace them. If nothing else, it generally makes them easire to remove as well as being good engineering practice to ensure friction is minimised whilst tightening.


Yep, same. Whatever grease was there when assembled 4 years prior had deteriorated and dried by the time I removed the bearings. I guess that can go on the ‘check annually’ list from now on 🙂


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## kingspirit (28 Apr 2021)

Wow what an amazing review!
I'm currently looking at Croix de Fer 40 (2021) as my new bike, but the main concern i have its about the exposed two cables at the down tube. Not sure how safe not to catch/damage this cables with anything and how durable they would be. As this days most of the cables are internal. What do you think about this exposed cables that run down the down tube?
Also as i understand you got the medium but what is your height?
Cheers!


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## cheys03 (28 Apr 2021)

Hi kingspirit. I see your concern but personally never had a problem with those exposed cables on my Croix de Fer. Having said that - I do run full length mudguards front and rear


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## CanucksTraveller (28 Apr 2021)

My Tour de Fer has the same exposed cables, no issues whatsoever in a year and a half of riding it, about 40 to 50% of that has been off road too. If you think about it, internal cable routing is a fairly recent thing and was brought in more for aesthetics than protection. Cyclists from 20, 30, 40 years ago didn't suffer cable damage often. If at all.


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## Gunk (28 Apr 2021)

kingspirit said:


> Wow what an amazing review!
> I'm currently looking at Croix de Fer 40 (2021) as my new bike, but the main concern i have its about the exposed two cables at the down tube. Not sure how safe not to catch/damage this cables with anything and how durable they would be. As this days most of the cables are internal. What do you think about this exposed cables that run down the down tube?
> Also as i understand you got the medium but what is your height?
> Cheers!



It is a good review, sadly @wafter is no longer on the forum, a real shame as he was a really decent chap who made an excellent contribution


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## kingspirit (29 Apr 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> My Tour de Fer has the same exposed cables, no issues whatsoever in a year and a half of riding it, about 40 to 50% of that has been off road too. If you think about it, internal cable routing is a fairly recent thing and was brought in more for aesthetics than protection. Cyclists from 20, 30, 40 years ago didn't suffer cable damage often.



Cheers! This is reassuring, I was worried that the cables just stick out on the sides of down tube, usually they run just under the down tube. What size of the bike do you have and what is your height? Comfortable ride?
Thanks


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Apr 2021)

Still a forum member, albeit has not posted for a few months. The review was very well thought out and detailed from an owners perspective, not the usual gushing over-exuberance you get from the mainstream cycling press.


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## CanucksTraveller (29 Apr 2021)

kingspirit said:


> Cheers! This is reassuring, I was worried that the cables just stick out on the sides of down tube, usually they run just under the down tube. What size of the bike do you have and what is your height? Comfortable ride?
> Thanks


They're not really on the side, just not quite fully under, sort of mid way. You can't see them from the saddle. They've never caught anything and never struck me as vulnerable, I've not heard of any negative experiences at all, and there are a few Genesis CdF riders on here. 
I'm 6 foot and I went for Large, I was midway between that and XL but I err towards the lower as I don't like to feel stretched out. It's very comfortable indeed, the most comfortable bike I've owned.


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## newfhouse (30 Apr 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> the most comfortable bike I've owned.


I feel exactly the same about mine.

@kingspirit FWIW I’m 5’ 10” in old money and having test ridden both a medium and a large, the large was the right choice for me.


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## avecReynolds531 (5 May 2021)

Thanks for the excellent thread & detailed review - appreciated.


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## wafter (25 Nov 2021)

Right guys, apologies for absence and all that. Not a whole lot to report but I thought this thread deserved an update to "celebrate" (or commiserate, depending on your perspective) my return to CC 



kingspirit said:


> Wow what an amazing review!
> I'm currently looking at Croix de Fer 40 (2021) as my new bike, but the main concern i have its about the exposed two cables at the down tube. Not sure how safe not to catch/damage this cables with anything and how durable they would be. As this days most of the cables are internal. What do you think about this exposed cables that run down the down tube?
> Also as i understand you got the medium but what is your height?
> Cheers!


Cheers dude!

Granted a bit late and I guess you've already made your choice (and if so I hope you're thoroughly enjoying the fruits of your toil!) but to answer your question..

I've had zero issue with the exposed cables, and as canuckstraveller has already said these used to be the norm and tbh I'd question the current trend for internally-routed stuff. On the one hand yes, it looks cleaner and arguably adds protection; on the other it makes replacement a proper ballache, weakens the main tubes and provides potential points for water ingress / corrosion initiation.

You can see from my thread that if there's something to be over-thought I'll be doing just that; and tbh the cables never concerned me.. while they've given me zero worries or issues in the time I've had the bike 

As for fit, this is something that's persistantly dogged me. I'm around 178cm and ride a medium but my proportions are "other-than-standard" with an 84cm inseam meaning I effectively have long legs and a short torso.. meaning that (compared to "standard" sizing) I need a bike with more stack and less reach. As you've probably read on this thread I did find reach excessive (but not to the point where it was a real issue) so if you're a similar height (but more normally proportioned) you should be all good on a medium.

Top marks for your choice of the CdF 40 anyway; when I bought the 30 it seemed worth it since it had the full-105 / hydro package over the '20s mechanical Tiagra. Unfortunately with the 2021 lineup I see they've neutered the 30 with cable brakes; which IMO is criminal on a bike costing so much; pushing the mid-point-watermark upto the '40 - which at least has some nice GRX bits to sweeten the deal and looks like a really nice package (great colour too!).

Anyway, if you still need any feedback post / drop me a PM and I'll do my best to sort you out with what you're after 




Gunk said:


> It is a good review, sadly @wafter is no longer on the forum, a real shame as he was a really decent chap who made an excellent contribution


Thanks chap 

As you can see though your (very flattering) eulogy was somewhat premature as I've come crawling back.. 



So.. a mercifully short update since ride-time has been sadly short and the bike has behaved pretty impeccibly 

I've managed to cover maybe 500-600 miles in the year I've reluctantly been back at the homestead and very little has occurred in a bike-centric context during this time.

I did have the rear tyre nearly sh*t the bed thanks to a fatigued / bulging sidewall - with PlanetX going above and beyond to provide a couple of replacements under warranty for which I was extremely grateful and suitably impressed 

On account of my slightly offbeat proportions I'd been looking out for a set of (older-spec) bars and a shorter stem to shorten the effective reach of the bike. I managed to score locally some 2019 X-race Pro bars (which are backswept and have a little less reach), however due to the hassle of fitting them versus the minimal gains of doing so, they're still sat unused.. 

I also acquired a "90mm" Genesis-branded stem to replace the 100mm standard item. When it arrived it turned out to be 80mm; which tbh is even better as long as I can phase my steering input to prevent clashes between the bars and my knees on out-of-the-saddle uphill efforts..

the bike feels much nicer with the shorter stem fitted; although it's slightly tatty so as usual I'm on the lookout for a mint example. Functionally however it's very welcome and has made the bike feel more manageble and relaxed without being obviously more twitchy.

Other than the above the Croix has rolled on relentlessly with zero issues. I've done a few rides from my reluctant new home, however nowhere near as many as last year's lockdown-cyclists-utiopia afforded. This has been made worse by the current inevitable dark, cold and wet weather plus actually having a job now..

All that said, when I come down for breakfast and cast my gaze across the CdF lent against the dining room table I'm still often moved to wistfully pat its saddle and utter the words "I still bloody love you" 

Anyway, a few crushingly instagram-whore-tastic lifestyle shots of our past year together:


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## Gunk (25 Nov 2021)

Nice to have you back @wafter


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## wafter (25 Nov 2021)

Gunk said:


> Nice to have you back @wafter


Thanks - it's great to be back


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## Cycleops (25 Nov 2021)

Welcome back and thanks for the well written update.


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## Spiderweb (25 Nov 2021)

You’ve returned @wafter , I’ve missed your posts, welcome back!


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## wafter (25 Nov 2021)

Cheers guys


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## SpokeyDokey (25 Nov 2021)

wafter said:


> Right guys, apologies for absence and all that. Not a whole lot to report but I thought this thread deserved an update to "celebrate" (or commiserate, depending on your perspective) my return to CC
> 
> 
> Cheers dude!
> ...



PS I'm no longer a Mod as I no longer have the time and it was spoiling my enjoyment of the site but... before I stood down I did put a request in for a write-up section as I'm sure it would be popular. Yours was a real standard-setter. 

Maybe it will happen one day!


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## cheys03 (26 Nov 2021)

Excellent news that you’re back wafter! Truly! Welcome back ☺ Great photo selection of the steed - very atmospheric and fantastic you’ve done the rides, which is more miles than I’ve managed for sure.

The reach is deceptively long on the Croix de Fer it seems. My proportions are roughly short-average leg length for my height but long torso. I thought the XL with 60cm reach would be good according to all Genesis’s guides, and they were right for the saddle height - don’t think an L would leave much post in the frame. But the reach was too great even for my proportionally longer torso. Like you I needed a shorter stem and that made a good improvement.

Great to have you back


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## wafter (26 Nov 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> PS I'm no longer a Mod as I no longer have the time and it was spoiling my enjoyment of the site but... before I stood down I did put a request in for a write-up section as I'm sure it would be popular. Yours was a real standard-setter.
> 
> Maybe it will happen one day!


Thanks - I'm honoured that my thread moved you to do that!

I completely understand about modding, having done similiar on another forum in a past life. It's a pretty thankless task that in my experience often ends in burnout and complete self-removal from the forum - so well done for sticking around and thanks for all the work you doubtless put in during your tenure 



cheys03 said:


> Excellent news that you’re back wafter! Truly! Welcome back ☺ Great photo selection of the steed - very atmospheric and fantastic you’ve done the rides, which is more miles than I’ve managed for sure.
> 
> The reach is deceptively long on the Croix de Fer it seems. My proportions are roughly short-average leg length for my height but long torso. I thought the XL with 60cm reach would be good according to all Genesis’s guides, and they were right for the saddle height - don’t think an L would leave much post in the frame. But the reach was too great even for my proportionally longer torso. Like you I needed a shorter stem and that made a good improvement.
> 
> Great to have you back


Thanks 😊

I have to say that allroadgraveladventure rides are the only thing I've ever done where the experience comes close to that implied by the lifestyle shots used to sell related products. The ability to get off the roads and away from the bloody traffic really makes for some great experiences and photos 

It's interesting that you've had issues with reach too considering your proportions. I'm not sure that it's excessive on the CdF though when compared to other bikes; the frame reach on my med CdF is comparable to / a shade less than that of my med Boardman Team Carbon (although as would be expected the stack is significantly less - at around 35mm - on the road bike).

While the reach to the bars with the old stem was blatantly too much for me (when riding "relaxed and upright" I usually found myself contacting the tops with only the tips of, or the undersides of my stretched-out fingers) I don't think the geometry of the bars helps in this regard either - the X-race pro bars I bought (which apparently came from a 2019 Ti model) have about 80mm of reach to the drops, and in turn those fitted to the 2020 model are around 90mm (centreline of the tops to that at the front of the drops). By contast I think the reach on most compact bars is typically 70-75mm, while those on my Boardman are really short at 65mm (and I'm running a 90mm stem in preferenace to the original 100mm offering).

I also find that the reach to the hoods is exacerbated by the length of the (otherwise lovely) 105 hydro shifters. Even with the shorter stem fitted, I find my "relaxed" position on the hoods is still well back from being fully engaged with them. Riding properly on the hoods is comfortable enough, but not quiet where I default to and I tend not to ride like this for any length of time. I did consider going for a small frame but toe-overlap put paid to that - something I still suffer with a little on this bike as my foot sometimes bothers the mudguard; but slightly irritating as it is this has never caused a problem.

I've tried to boil down my geometry further than just "long legs" but nailing down mean body proportion data on the net (and taking accurate measurements from ones own body for comparison) is problematic. I suspect I have quite long thighs as to get comfortable I have to run the seat as far back as it'll go (which obviously doesn't help the reach situation), yet still, with the shorter stem can get knee-contact with the tops of the bars when climbing out of the saddle and apply a bit of steering angle.

I've done a lot of work on bike fit and am fairly happy with where it is on all my bikes; however sometimes I do question how good it is and end up going down that rabbit hole again. Maybe one day if I can justify the money I'll treat myself to a professional setup.

You make an interesting point about the seatpost extension; I guess this is an inherent shortcoming of compact frame geometry (and gets my paranoia going about frame fatigue given the long lever-arm and relatively short engagement). As you can see mine's extended pretty far too; I'd certainly not have wanted to have gone any larger on the frame though. How short did you go with the stem in the end?


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## cheys03 (26 Nov 2021)

Good points, and interesting to read as in fairness my only experience of modern frame sizing is the Croix de Fer. The gianormas 105 hoods are likely a factor, they look at least 15mm longer than standard. I went for a 70mm stem too. Amazing difference. I’m using a Brooks Flyer which is limited on rail adjustment but have a B17 to fit with slightly more options - reminded me to get cracking on that! cheers


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