# Brompton 6 gear vs 3 gear on hills - London people



## maat1976 (22 Apr 2012)

I recently had my lovely 2011 Boardman Hybrid Pro stolen from inside my building, inside a gated complex, (yes it was locked to everything imaginable with chains and D locks). So I'm giving up on the idea of parking my bike where it used to go and will have to finally do what I was dreading - go the Brompton route and take it into my flat for piece of mind. My flat is a shoebox so I literally can't fix a full sized bike.

I've been trawling the ebay listings and have no idea if a 3 gear Brompton would be at all suitable for the hill from King's Cross up to Angel or Highbury Islington via Pentonville Road. Anyone have any thoughts? I did search the Brompton area first and didn't see much of anything about hills and the 3 gear model. 

Thanks.
Claudia


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## Red Light (22 Apr 2012)

I have a 3 speed Brompton and ride that route without any problems. If you are concerned you might look for the reduced gearing option on the Brompton (you can also retrofit it but its more costly than as a factory option) to give you a lower gear on the hills at the price of a lower top gear going down the other side.


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## spen666 (22 Apr 2012)

maat1976 said:


> .....
> 
> I've been trawling the ebay listings and have no idea if a 3 gear Brompton would be at all suitable for the hill from King's Cross up to Angel or Highbury Islington via Pentonville Road. Anyone have any thoughts? I did search the Brompton area first and didn't see much of anything about hills and the 3 gear model.
> 
> ...


 

If a fat git like me can do it on a fixed then I'm sure you can manage it on a greared brompton


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## Bromptonaut (22 Apr 2012)

I think pretty much any B could do that sort of ride. The current 6 speed with the BWR hub is quite low geared as standard, I'm no great climber but it's pretty easy to ride up to Archway or Hampstead.


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## maat1976 (22 Apr 2012)

WHat about down hill from either Archway / Hampstead or Pentonville road? Because you can't switch gears really up, are you going really slow?

My last bike was amazing and I want to manage my own expectations of how different the performance of the Brompton is going to be. 

Thanks!
Claudia


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## Red Light (22 Apr 2012)

Best way is to try one for yourself. Velorution will hire you a Brompton for half a day for £12 and I am sure they would let you try a 3 and 6 speed during that time Its not too far from Gt Portland St to KX.


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## Red Light (22 Apr 2012)

Actually just spotted they are closing up on May 5 so you'll need to hurry but you might also be able to get a deal on an ex-rental Brompton if you are lucky.


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## maat1976 (22 Apr 2012)

Great idea Red Light. Thanks for that!!!!


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## Crankarm (22 Apr 2012)

Go for the 6 speed as the 3 speed is a false economy neither a SS nor enough gears. I use all the 6 gears on mine - std ratios. The 6 spd is low enough to get you up Crouch Hill which is steep and then down the other side without spinning out in top. Try Condor or Evans who I am sure will gladly let you try the various options. Go for one without rack as well as this is needless weight and makes them look ugly imho. Use the front touring pannier instead which mounts on the block (sold seperately) and makes the handling much better with some weight on the front. Don't buy from Ebay as these are most definitely nicked.


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## Poacher (23 Apr 2012)

I'll agree with Crankarm on most of his points (not often I can say that!). The extra £60 for 6 speed is money well spent, although it can be a bit of a PITA having to flick both left and right changers if you want to go through the gears sequentially. The BWR hub opens up the gear range significantly, compared with the 3 speed.
Touring pannier (now known as the T-bag, apparently), is also good value, as far as it's possible to say that about anything Brompton-related. Ebay Bromptons are generally iffy - note the lack of the all-important serial number sticker just beneath the seat clamp in most adverts. Since this acts as a guarantee, no honest "owner" would remove it. NB this is distinct from the frame number which is impressed into the main frame near the rear pivot point. I've incurred considerable expense having to investigate and return a Brommy my wife fancied; it was put together from a stolen main frame (which was relatively easy to prove) and titanium extremities, which we presumed were also hot.
The rear rack may make the bike ugly, but I've often needed mine in addtion to the touring pannier - most recently to carry a coiled garden hose which wouldn't fit in the pannier. More importantly, IMO, it enables the use of 4 Eazy wheels, making the Brommy more stable when going round shops etc. with it.


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## Red Light (23 Apr 2012)

Poacher said:


> Touring pannier (now known as the T-bag, apparently), is also good value, as far as it's possible to say that about anything Brompton-related.


 
Step away from the T-bag and stay with the C or S-bag. You will only fill it up and then you spend all your time carting a heavy bag around on the bike. My C-bag ensures I only carry what is necessary by limiting my ability to stuff it with all the unnecessary stuff


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## Bromptonaut (23 Apr 2012)

maat1976 said:


> WHat about down hill from either Archway / Hampstead or Pentonville road? Because you can't switch gears really up, are you going really slow?
> 
> My last bike was amazing and I want to manage my own expectations of how different the performance of the Brompton is going to be.
> 
> ...


 
Don't worry too much about the Brompton's performance. It's a bike that happens to have small wheels and fold. If you watch them being ridden in traffic they keep up with everybody except the roadies. Only issue I've ever had is that it can feel a bit light at the front but this is much improved when using a pannier.


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## maat1976 (23 Apr 2012)

Thanks all.

To be honest, I will have to buy something used as I can't afford new. I'm still paying off the one that was stolen. I've asked a few of the sellers to show receipts (surprisingly they did) and will also see if I can get the number under the seat on any I am seriously bidding on. 

It sounds to me like either a 3 or a 6 should be ok really. 

Claudia


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2012)

maat1976 said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> To be honest, I will have to buy something used as I can't afford new. I'm still paying off the one that was stolen. I've asked a few of the sellers to show receipts (surprisingly they did) and will also see if I can get the number under the seat on any I am seriously bidding on.
> 
> ...


 
Errr ......... we are saying a 6 speed is superior. Don't go for a 3 spd.


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## mickle (24 Apr 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Errr ......... we are saying a 6 speed is superior. Don't go for a 3 spd.


 
I'd say go for a three speed actually, with the low gear option if possible (just like on my new Brompton as it happens). I've never got on with the six spd - all those multi shifts to work your way through the gears. A city bike should be easy to use before all else, and the six adds a layer of complexity which is unecessary. And let's not forget that there are two types of six speed Brompton - the newish 'Brompton' custom geared Sturmey three speed hub based six or the earlier _standard_ Sturmey three speed hub based six. Which one are 'we' recommending? I've used 3 spd Bromptons in Bristol, (hilly) London and York (flat as a pancake) and never hankered for more gears. Probably because I took the time to fine tune (through careful selection of the chain-ring size) which three gears I ended up with.


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## StuartG (24 Apr 2012)

If I was buying again I would get the 6 speed. That's because I accidentally found it was a exceedingly good touring bike that could do the hills of Wales as well as Trafalgar Square.

I did retrofit the smaller chainwheel and that was a revelation. Why Brompton persist in overgearing their 3 speed confuses me. Hence a modified 3 speed is good enough for anything short of Ditchling. You can honk up almost anything (well as long as it ain't too long).

I fitted one sided SPDs. They are ideal at ensuring your heels don't foul the EasyWheels when you are tired/straining.


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## Red Light (24 Apr 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Errr ......... we are saying a 6 speed is superior. Don't go for a 3 spd.


 
I'm not. For cycling there a three speed should be fine.


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## cloggsy (25 Apr 2012)

Can I ask, why a Brommie?

What about a Tern X30H or a Dahon X27H?


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## mickle (25 Apr 2012)

cloggsy said:


> Can I ask, why a Brommie?
> 
> What about a Tern X30H or a Dahon X27H?


 
This is one not a Dahon X27H!:







And £1600(!) is another reason..

There is an argument for taller wheels than the 16" standard used by Brompton which cites reduced rolling resistance and (alleged) better handling. But these don't - in my opinion - compensate for the wildly superior fold of the Brompton. The Brompton fold is faster, easier and results in a smaller, tighter package which doesn't attempt to unfurl at every opportunity. One of the major drawbacks of the traditional 'Klapprad' fold-in-half frame style used by Dahon, Tern, Montague, Raleigh (Shopper/Twenty) and a thousand different Chinese shitters is that it doesn't hold together very well. And anyone who has tried to stow such a thing will know that the _weight_ of a folded folder is only half the equation - when the damned thing tries to unfold as you're loading it into a car it'll give you a spinal injury. The poxy little magnets used by Dahon and Tern are simply no match for the Brompton's self locking fold.


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## smutchin (25 Apr 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Errr ......... we are saying a 6 speed is superior. Don't go for a 3 spd.


 
You might be saying that; I'm not. It's the size of the gears that matters, not how many you have. If you struggle with London's "hills", you need the reduced gearing not necessarily more gears.

My advice to the OP would be to try both 3spd and 6spd if possible and choose which you prefer rather than assume that one or the other is going to be better based on someone else's experiences, which may turn out to be different to yours (personally, I prefer the simplicity of singlespeed and find one gear plenty for getting around London on my Brompton, but I know I'm unusual in that).

d.


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## maat1976 (25 Apr 2012)

Am hoping to go try a 3 and 6 speed this weekend, fingers crossed. With all the positive votes for both the 3 and the 6, it sounds like both will do the job and I just need to figure out what I prefer.

Claudia


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## dellzeqq (26 Apr 2012)

I'm glad of the six speed, and, more to the point, so is Susie, who's not the strongest cyclist. It just makes commuting less of a sweat. 

I rarely use the lowest two speeds, but having the four upper gears where I might have only two is great. I've also got the 8% uplift in ratios, but that's probably a bit of a luxury.


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## Crankarm (26 Apr 2012)

maat1976 said:


> Am hoping to go try a 3 and 6 speed this weekend, fingers crossed. With all the positive votes for both the 3 and the 6, it sounds like both will do the job and I just need to figure out what I prefer.
> 
> Claudia


 
6 spd gives you more options.


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## Crankarm (26 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> I'd say go for a three speed actually, with the low gear option if possible (just like on my new Brompton as it happens). I've never got on with the six spd - all those multi shifts to work your way through the gears. A city bike should be easy to use before all else, and _*the six adds a layer of complexity which is unecessary. And let's not forget that there are two types of six speed Brompton - the newish 'Brompton' custom geared Sturmey three speed hub based six or the earlier standard Sturmey three speed hub based s*_i*x*. Which one are 'we' recommending? I've used 3 spd Bromptons in Bristol, (hilly) London and York (flat as a pancake) and never hankered for more gears. Probably because I took the time to fine tune (through careful selection of the chain-ring size) which three gears I ended up with.


 
Complex! LoL. Do you have problems running a bath or brushing your teeth?


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## Twanger (26 Apr 2012)

I have the 6 speed. I use the two lowest gears for going up the hill to Crystal Palace (second highest point in South London, where I live), and the sixth gear, the 99 inch, very rarely...normally while zooming down the hill from CP. I don't find the gearing complex to use, or difficult to maintain. The Brompton catalogue has a detailed tech spec of the gearing, so you can look and see what meets your needs.


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## mickle (26 Apr 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Complex! LoL. Do you have problems running a bath or brushing your teeth?


Yes. I do. But that's not the point.


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## smutchin (26 Apr 2012)

Crankarm said:


> 6 spd gives you more options.


 
Singlespeed gives me all the options I need. YMMV.

d.


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## MontyVeda (17 May 2012)

I too am now seriously considering a Brommy too...so this thread has been an interesting read. I've just had a look at the gearing spec on their website and have realised (once again) just how little i understand.


*Gears* ------- Ratios (metric) ---- Range ------- Optional higher gearing ----- Optional lower gearing

*3-speed* ------ 3.79m - 6.76m ---- 178% -------------+8% ---------------------------- -12% & -18%
*6-speed (BWR)* 2.63m – 7.94m ---- 302% ------------ +8% --------------------------------- -12%

the ratios (metric) are meaningless to me, as are all those percentages. How does it all relate to the gearing on my 21spd?... can anybody help me through this blonde moment? 

(TIA)


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## MisterStan (17 May 2012)

mickle said:


> Yes. I do. But that's not the point.



Mickle is right. End of.

The first rule of CycleChat is you do not question the Mickle!


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## smutchin (17 May 2012)

The numbers are essentially meaningless, they only mean anything relative to each other (small number = better for going uphill, large number = better for going fast). 

You can use this gear calculator to work out how two different bikes compare:
http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

But bear in mind that a particular gear size on a Brompton will feel a bit different to the same gear size on a road bike, for various reasons...

d.


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## musa (17 May 2012)

Twanger said:


> . *I use the two lowest gears for going up the hill to Crystal Palace (second highest point in South London, where I live), and the sixth gear, the 99 inch, very rarely...normally while zooming down the hill from CP.*


 
whats the first? what hill in CP? the whole place is on a hill as it is


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## Poacher (17 May 2012)

The gear ratios are shown in much more detail on page 9 of the online brochure: http://www.brompton.co.uk/brochure/
This shows the "old money" inch equivalents of the metric ratios
e.g. the standard 6 speed corresponds to 33.1, 40.7, 51.9, 63.8, 81.3 and 100",
while the standard 3 speed corresponds to 47.9, 63.8 and 84.9"

Hope this helps - I certainly find it easier to understand.


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## The Eco Worrier (18 May 2012)

cloggsy said:


> Can I ask, why a Brommie?
> 
> What about a Tern X30H or a Dahon X27H?


 
Good call on this. When I lived in Holloway, I went for a Dahon Vitesse ( moved on a bit since then - Tern looks good!) You get a good balance of high to low gears and is half the price. Changed to a brompton for train commute when I moved out of town -lots of folding.

I miss that commute route - have one in the Albion for me!


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## Jezston (18 May 2012)

Poacher said:


> The gear ratios are shown in much more detail on page 9 of the online brochure: http://www.brompton.co.uk/brochure/
> This shows the "old money" inch equivalents of the metric ratios
> e.g. the standard 6 speed corresponds to 33.1, 40.7, 51.9, 63.8, 81.3 and 100",
> while the standard 3 speed corresponds to 47.9, 63.8 and 84.9"
> ...


 
Why on earth would you want to be running 100" on a Brompton?


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## fossyant (18 May 2012)

Hills, London


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## Poacher (18 May 2012)

Must confess I don't usually need 6th gear, but I was in it for quite a few miles at a stretch when I rode from Newark to Nottingham back in the relative heatwave of March. For the last few miles I had a lycra-clad roadie tailing me at 20mph+ and refusing to take his turn on the front. It's occasionally useful, and very exhilarating on a ride like that. Shod with tyres lighter than the Schwalbe Marathons which I specified because I'm terrified of having to mend a p******* on a Brommie, I'd certainly use 6th more often. (Lighter tyres would also lower the gearing very slightly  ).


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## dellzeqq (18 May 2012)

Jezston said:


> Why on earth would you want to be running 100" on a Brompton?


it comes in handy (well, actually, I've got the 108 inch gear). Bit of a following wind down Clapham Road and away you go..........


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## GFamily (20 May 2012)

maat1976 said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> To be honest, I will have to buy something used as I can't afford new. I'm still paying off the one that was stolen. I've asked a few of the sellers to show receipts (surprisingly they did) and will also see if I can get the number under the seat on any I am seriously bidding on.
> 
> ...


 
I'd say go with the 6 speed; but I would also suggest that if you'e a seasoned cyclist you _may_ be better off NOT getting the BWR (Brompton Wide Range) hub. 

I have the standard 6 speed hub and my wife has the BWR 6 speed. When I'm cycling I always aim to keep a steady cadence, and the smaller steps between gears on my bike makes this much easier than when I'm using my wife's.

I agree that the overall range is much wider on the BWR, but I find I hardly ever need to use the extreme (1st and 6th) gears on that bike.


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## TheDoctor (20 May 2012)

I have ridden both 6 speed versions, and I'm not keen on the BWR. The bottom gear is like pedalling through treacle, and the top is mad high. I can only really use it at speeds above 35mph (I'm quite 'spinny') so it doesn't get used often.
If someone offered me a straight swap from BWR to standard AW, I'd probably take it.


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## CopperBrompton (21 May 2012)

I've owned both and would say there's not a massive difference in London riding, but 6th does occasionally come in useful.


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## Serx (24 Aug 2012)

Hey everyone - I'm new to the forum and have got drawn into this conversation! I bought a 3 speed from an RBF (raving Brompton fan) following the risk of a driving ban  And I'm loving it. This thread has convinced me about how well I've done with it. I live in a rural community 5 miles from the station. 
Here are my thoughts:
1. If a hill is too steep, flick up the folding pedal and walk for a 100yds or so, and enjoy the view. There is no failure in getting off and walking, is there? A bike is x5 faster than walking, not x5 slower than the BMW 1200gs motorbike that has caused me the hassle with the Law. Walking is good. 
2. Don't bother going too fast and you won't need all the fancy gearing. 
3. If it is really tough, get a taxi (or whatever!)
4. Adjusting my attitude to time is going to be cheaper than the fine I'm going to have to pay.
5. Focussing on fractions of increments and other detail is more expensive than contentment with what I've got.
6. I'm going 'wild' camping on my Brompton at the first opportunity. 

The RBF is my nephew. Longtime Bromptoner.


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## Lurker (24 Aug 2012)

Welcome, Serx!

I like your attitude - glad you're enjoying your Brompton!


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## smutchin (28 Sep 2012)

Serx said:


> 4. Adjusting my attitude to time is going to be cheaper than the fine I'm going to have to pay.


 
Sounds like you've made a good start!

d.


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