# Is the pandemic cycling craze here to stay?



## Cycleops (17 Jan 2021)

Interesting piece which analyses the statistics and trends suggests it is. What do you think:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2420131/pandemic-bike-boom-here-stay


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## Darius_Jedburgh (17 Jan 2021)

Round here it finished a long time ago.
Lockdown cyclists disappeared as soon as the weather turned the least bit inclement - early September. Motorists are back to their aggressive behaviour, and jog joggers are still running down the middle of the road rather than using the footpaths wearing headphones blocking out all road noise, and expecting everyone to move out of the way for them.

Nope, the cycling boom is gone, and will not come back other than to a very small extent. Once everyone can go shopping, to the pub, on holiday, to visitor attractions the car will resume its traditional place as the preferred means of transport for the masses - and get off the road you cyclists; you never pay road tax! Borislies' health and exercise regime will disappear into Room 101 along with his personal trainer, who has been there some time.


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## dodgy (17 Jan 2021)

There certainly was a boom here for a few months, like has already been said, as soon as the weather became less than absolutely perfect, they disappeared. I was out for 30miles yesterday and don't think I saw a single cyclist out!


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## SGG on a bike (17 Jan 2021)

It tailed off here in Lowestoft quite quickly, but I think it may have been more to do with people getting back to work and not making time. It certainly seemed to coincide with roads becoming more busy.

We've just got back from a ride this morning, albeit a short one just for some fresh air and there were a fair number of cyclists out and about. More than I expected to see perhaps. The roads were quiet again like during the first lockdown which was nice.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (17 Jan 2021)

I ordered a bike a couple weeks ago that I won't get until the middle of March. There could be supply issues there but it seems mostly workshop related - they can't build bikes quick enough.


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## Notafettler (17 Jan 2021)

No


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## Smokin Joe (17 Jan 2021)

The cycling boom appears to be very much a middle aged, middle class fashion trend. Rather like the motorcycle boom of the nineties, expensive high end performance machines bought because it is the thing to do at the moment if you want to keep up.

When I see the roads and bike racks full of practical bikes with mudguards, lights and panniers then I'll believe cycling has caught on as a means of transport.


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## Big John (17 Jan 2021)

Saw quite a few out on bikes during the first lockdown but as time's gone on I'm pretty sure there aren't the numbers there any more. I was out today and only saw the hardy souls I usually see on my regular Sunday rides. However, there are still a lot out walking the lanes so it's not all bad. They may get their bikes out again come Spring but walking's not a bad form of exercise, eh?


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## Tripster (17 Jan 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Round here it finished a long time ago.
> Lockdown cyclists disappeared as soon as the weather turned the least bit inclement - early September. Motorists are back to their aggressive behaviour, and jog joggers are still running down the middle of the road rather than using the footpaths wearing headphones blocking out all road noise, and expecting everyone to move out of the way for them.
> 
> Nope, the cycling boom is gone, and will not come back other than to a very small extent. Once everyone can go shopping, to the pub, on holiday, to visitor attractions the car will resume its traditional place as the preferred means of transport for the masses - and get off the road you cyclists; you never pay road tax! Borislies' health and exercise regime will disappear into Room 101 along with his personal trainer, who has been there some time.


Keep up that positivity👍


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## Fab Foodie (17 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> When I see the roads and bike racks full of practical bikes with mudguards, lights and panniers then I'll believe cycling has caught on as a means of transport.


Seen plenty out here today, outnumbering the Cyclewankers by a considerable margin.


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## Tripster (17 Jan 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> Seen plenty out here today, outnumbering the Cyclewankers.


Sportsbikes are the least purchased machine in the UK now. High insurance, outrageous performance and lack of places to ride are seeing them decline more. Head down arse up with a chiropractor needed at journeys end to straighten you out is lacking appeal on the atrocious uk roads.Adventure bikes top the sales polls which is the equivalent of the Bikepacking/touring cycle self-gratification artists


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## Archie_tect (17 Jan 2021)

Is there a pandemic cycling craze? I've not noticed any significant change up here.


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## Oldhippy (17 Jan 2021)

I'm out most days and generally see a selection of cyclists out and about. I'm hopeful in many ways.


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## Chris S (17 Jan 2021)

There are still a lot more cyclists in South Birmingham. They tend to wear normal clothes rather than lycra.


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## Fab Foodie (17 Jan 2021)

However you look at it, cycling is on the rise, whether it’s bomb-dodgers, pandemic pedalers, wannabe racers, or ebikers. 
Every little boom creates full-time cyclists.
The weather and darkness have probably put people off at the moment, but many will return.
It’s all good....


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## screenman (17 Jan 2021)

You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.


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## Tripster (17 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.


Couldnt have put it better. Well said that man


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## johnnyb47 (17 Jan 2021)

On the first Lockdown i noticed alot of new cyclists out there. Later in the summer when things were getting back to a loosely worded normal, the bikes and walkers slowly disappeared. 
Sadly i just think it was a plan b for many until things improved and normal service returns with life in general


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## HMS_Dave (17 Jan 2021)

Personally, i'd like to see more variety of bicycle. They're all boring today, focusing on exotic light weight materials rather than exciting and interesting designs...

Take this chap. He took "out of the box" thinking into account and made it "inside the wheel" thinking...






This i can subscribe to...


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## MntnMan62 (17 Jan 2021)

I highly doubt it. As soon as things return to some semblance of normalcy once the vaccine has made the rounds and the number of cases plummets, people will go back to doing the stuff that occupied them before the pandemic. I'll enjoy my rides more because I prefer to see fewer people on the road. And if I get back to mountain biking, my best rides were when I saw literally no one on the trail. It makes you feel as though you have the entire park, or world for that matter, to yourself.


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## screenman (17 Jan 2021)

If you have never tried something and found it not to your liking then you have not tried m any things.


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## shep (17 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.


If you read the posts on here unless you trudge to work in all weather's, riding your Brompton complete with Brooke's saddle and full panniers wearing tweed and going no faster than 10mph you're not a 'proper' cyclist anyway.

Myself, 
I like modern bikes and kit that aids comfort and performance, ride for pleasure and fitness with like minded people.
I see other types of cyclist out on the road and treat them with the exact same respect as people riding the same sort of bike I choose.

Wouldn't dream of slating someone who rides something different to me, and come on, fold up bikes?


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## Dan77 (17 Jan 2021)

Looks pretty busy around these parts and no obvious sign of slowing down, although lots of people have now got new bikes and so are less likely to need another one.

I will admit to being a fair weather rider and I've got so into Zwift that I'm not even going to think about taking the bike outside before March. Still doing at least as many miles as before though and loving the data. Also just completed a 6 week training program so progressing better than ever.

I guess you could call me a lockdown rider being as I started in May but I've not had a single day furloughed or working from home so rather different circumstances to most I imagine.


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## All uphill (17 Jan 2021)

I'm still waiting for all the cheap, unused bikes for sale! Strongly predicted here, but nowhere to be seen near me.😪


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## Tripster (17 Jan 2021)

All uphill said:


> I'm still waiting for all the cheap, unused bikes for sale! Strongly predicted here, but nowhere to be seen near me.😪


Total catastrophe was predicted on here for 1st January...it didnt happen so wouldnt hold your breath waiting for cheap, unused bikes


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## shep (17 Jan 2021)

All uphill said:


> I'm still waiting for all the cheap, unused bikes for sale! Strongly predicted here, but nowhere to be seen near me.😪


Me too, none here either.


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## shep (17 Jan 2021)

Nice Trek Madone Sl7 for 3k but not seen any yet.


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## classic33 (17 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> Nice Trek Madone Sl7 for 3k but not seen any yet.


https://www.cycleworks.shop/product..._campaign=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=8822


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## Oldhippy (17 Jan 2021)

The one thing we all have on common is that we all ride a bike. It matters not if you are a weekend warrior riding up the side of a mountain or me on a trusty do it all bike. Just by being visible in all our guises promotes that the bicycle is a valid and great way to get about. For me wether I'm slogging along with a trailer full of shopping or going out cause I can or in the back end of nowhere it's fun and beats sitting a metal box being part of the problem. ✌


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## HMS_Dave (17 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> *If you read the posts on here unless you trudge to work in all weather's, riding your Brompton complete with Brooke's saddle and full panniers wearing tweed and going no faster than 10mph you're not a 'proper' cyclist anyway.*
> 
> Myself,
> I like modern bikes and kit that aids comfort and performance, ride for pleasure and fitness with like minded people.
> ...



I wear jeans and ride a bike with a basket on the front. I probably look like a dick head but i really don't care what anybody says inside or outside the forum. In fact, im more determined than ever to get an upright trike and really bust the cycling trend!


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## shep (17 Jan 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> I wear jeans and ride a bike with a basket on the front. I probably look like a dick head but i really don't care what anybody says inside or outside the forum. In fact, im more determined than ever to get an upright trike and really bust the cycling trend!


That's exactly my point, I care not what you ride and wouldn't comment. 

Other's on here though, are a little different. 

I, like you couldn't give a t**s what people on here think.


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## Spinney (17 Jan 2021)

Dug myself out for the first time this year today. Never seen so many cyclists on one ride in the lanes around here.


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## shep (17 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> https://www.cycleworks.shop/product/trek-madone-sl-ultegra-8000-full-aero-bars-aeolus-carbon-wheels/?utm_source=Google Shopping&utm_campaign=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=8822


Cheers, not a result of the Covid Craze though as it's a 2019 model so would guess bought before so not last yrs. 

Thanks though '20 or '21 model with disc brakes in a Medium if you're that keen.


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## Smokin Joe (17 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.


Absolutely nothing. 

But them I've never tried to get anyone to take up one of my interests or hobbies, if they want to I'll help them but if they never express any desire or interest that's their business.


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## Rusty Nails (17 Jan 2021)

I went for a 30 mile round trip this morning. After a couple of miles I decided to ride along the Taff Trail for six miles to Pontypridd because of the scenery. I have never seen so many cyclists on it; families, couples, single riders of all ages. Great to see but not so great to ride through so I stuck to the roads the rest of the time, nearly all road cyclists, and a lot more than I used to see a year ago.

I volunteer at a community bike workshop that sells used, renovated bikes and we cannot keep up with demand from people who want to try to get back into cycling for leisure or local commuting.

The current boom may not be here to stay, but it would be surprising if it was given the strange circumstances. There will be people who drop out of cycling after trying it out but that has always happened and I am certain that it will result in a large number keeping it up from the high number of new cyclists.

You never know, some of them may even turn into "proper" cyclists like everyone on this forum.


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## BoldonLad (17 Jan 2021)

In my area, there was a boom during first lock down. It has fallen back, particularly as weather has become colder. But, the overall level is still higher than pre-Covid, particularly among those who look like they may be cycling to/from work. I am hopeful, but, I am an optimist


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Jan 2021)

Plenty out in the lanes today


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## snorri (17 Jan 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Interesting piece which analyses the statistics and trends suggests it is. What do you think:


I think that is a US publication and the article has little relevance to the UK.
There may have been a mini walking and cycling boom during the frst lockdown in my area, but that collapsed immediately as motor vehicle traffic levels returned to pre covid levels.


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## 13 rider (17 Jan 2021)

First decent weather day off the year and loads of riders out today on all sorts of bikes . Nice to see family groups out getting the kids out riding . Spent a few minutes chatting away to a lady rider on her new Cannondale gravel bike ,she took up riding in the first lockdown and loves it . If the lockdown encourages a just a few newbies to carry on that can't be bad . Was in my Lbs the other week and was chatting about how busy they are now and they are now selling winter kit and lights etc to the people who starting in lockdown so some off them are carrying on


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## snorri (17 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.


I'm out on the roads and showing that it's possible, but even I now have roads which I consider 'no go' areas such is my concern for my personal safety.


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## Oldhippy (17 Jan 2021)

I will ride any road, I will of course pick the quieter road given a choice. I am always polite and just refuse to be intimidated by a driver in a rush or one who thinks they have more of a right to be on the road. Had the odd dickhead over the years taking the mickey but nothing crazy.


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## Ian H (17 Jan 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> ... im more determined than ever to get an upright trike and really bust the cycling trend!


Bust what trend exactly?


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## HMS_Dave (17 Jan 2021)

Ian H said:


> Bust what trend exactly?
> View attachment 569449


It doesn't seem as popular as it once was, most advocate safer, easier recumbents 

Good to see a pic of Jimmy Nail on his tricycle though


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## Ian H (17 Jan 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> It doesn't seem as popular as it once was, most advocate safer, easier recumbents
> 
> Good to see a pic of Jimmy Nail on his tricycle though



That is the late Les Lowe on an upright trike or _barrow_. Trikies are the hard folk of cycling. Getting one of those round a bend at speed is a real skill (even riding one in a straight line is a real skill, believe me).


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## HMS_Dave (17 Jan 2021)

Ian H said:


> That is the late Les Lowe on an upright trike or _barrow_. Trikies are the hard folk of cycling. Getting one of those round a bend at speed is a real skill (even riding one in a straight line is a real skill, believe me).


Aye, ive been warned a few times but that only makes me more eager... Got to be mad...


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## Ian H (17 Jan 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Aye, ive been warned a few times but that only makes me more eager... Got to be mad...


https://tricycleassociation.org.uk/


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## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jan 2021)

I've never seen so many cyclists out and about in London as today. Mind, the mild temperatures and blue skies helped.


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## mjr (17 Jan 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Plenty out in the lanes today


Aye, same in Norfolk today. First bit of sunshine and loads appear, even on some good cycling roads which aren't on any signposted routes.


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## Craig the cyclist (17 Jan 2021)

There were two 'crazes' this year in my experience. Lockdown 1 saw loads of people cycling, but the end of that and the summer was bonkers with paddleboarders! Seriously, some days I reckon you could have walked across the river on them it was that jam packed!

Both the bikes and boards have disappeared now until the summer is my guess


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## Gunk (17 Jan 2021)

In the middle of Summer all my finished project bikes sold in a matter of days for silly prices.

The last two, which were both really nice bikes, took a bit longer and I was disappointed with the price I got, I don’t think it is just seasonal as I’ve always sold all year round and decent bikes sell any time of the year, but I do think some heat has come out of the market, as the bike shops start to restock.


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## rockyroller (18 Jan 2021)

I believe yes. need to get any shop service done before the end of February cuz ppl will be flocking to the shops again


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## Johnno260 (18 Jan 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> jog joggers are still running down the middle of the road rather than using the footpaths wearing headphones blocking out all road noise, and expecting everyone to move out of the way for them.



My wife almost hit a jogger the other day, like you said earphones and music probably too loud, they were on the footpath but just turned and stepped into the road without looking.

She did an emergency stop and the guy threw abuse, he was priority as a vulnerable road user, my wife said yes if you're crossing the road, but you stepped out without looking it doesn't mean you step into the road without looking.

The guy was a douche, I was actually talking to my wife via handsfree and knew she was near our drive, he didn't like it when I showed up, he was nice and brave shouting at a women.


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## BoldonLad (18 Jan 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> My wife almost hit a jogger the other day, like you said earphones and music probably too loud, they were on the footpath but just turned and stepped into the road without looking.
> 
> She did an emergency stop and the guy threw abuse, he was priority as a vulnerable road user, my wife said yes if you're crossing the road, but you stepped out without looking it doesn't mean you step into the road without looking.
> 
> The guy was a douche,* I was actually talking to my wife via handsfree a*nd knew she was near our drive, he didn't like it when I showed up, he was nice and brave shouting at a women.



Not sure if your telephone conversation started before or after the incident, and, yes, the jogger should have looked, but, using a phone (even handsfree) while driving.... tut, tut


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> and come on, fold up bikes?


...are brilliant :-)


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> I, like you couldn't give a t**s what people on here think.


...it's been noted


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## Juan Kog (18 Jan 2021)

Ian H said:


> That is the late Les Lowe on an upright trike or _barrow_. Trikies are the hard folk of cycling. Getting one of those round a bend at speed is a real skill (even riding one in a straight line is a real skill, believe me).


Second that Ian . About 25 years ago I tried one in large empty car park ,scary . The owner calling out be careful I’ve just had resprayed . The photo you posted , years ago all the trikies I knew had very full beards.


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## Johnno260 (18 Jan 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> Not sure if your telephone conversation started before or after the incident, and, yes, the jogger should have looked, but, using a phone (even handsfree) while driving.... tut, tut



True but the call can be answered with a push of a button on the steering wheel, and tbh I find a handsfree call less distracting then a person in the car, I had called as I thought she would be leaving her shift and walking to the car, but she had been allowed home early.

Fact is, the jogger should still of looked before crossing the road.

Edit: the call had started before the incident.


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## shep (18 Jan 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't tell me the wrong kind of people have been riding the wrong kind of bike? And generally doing it wrong? How very dare they.


I know, the cheek of it.


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## shep (18 Jan 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> ...it's been noted


It's a good job, you're one of the worst.


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## shep (18 Jan 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> ...are brilliant :-)


If it's your thing.


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> If it's your thing.


...might be....


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## Drago (18 Jan 2021)

To amswer the title question - no. A bit of sheet weather and numbers are back down to the minimum or hardy or dedicated souls. It seems the reasons for cycling to avoid public transport etc are only valid in nice weather.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

I was out for about two hours yesterday on foot and on bike and I saw one carbon roadie, one hybrid rider, and one youth standing astride a cheap Challenge MTB outside the kebab shop. That was it, so four riders including me on a top of the range Apollo! .


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## mjr (18 Jan 2021)

Juan Kog said:


> The photo you posted , years ago all the trikies I knew had very full beards.


Does the beard assist with air-braking while leaning right out to balance the unstable thing?


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## mjr (18 Jan 2021)

I posted a graph of the figures since November in
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lockdown-what-lockdown.270469/post-6271865







The purple line spiking to 180% in the November lockdown is cycling. The December tiers saw it fall back but that may be as much the Christmas run-up (more shopping to do, some gifts to deliver, and so on) disrupting all travel patterns as anything else. We may get some idea on Wednesday how the January lockdown is shaping up.


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## matticus (18 Jan 2021)

Drago said:


> A bit of sheet weather and numbers are back down to the minimum or hardy or dedicated souls


There will always be seasonal variation, always has been.

Your post is like declaring "_Climate change is in reverse!_" on the first icy day in January; I'd rather wait to see the figures.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

Drago said:


> To amswer the title question - no. A bit of sheet weather and numbers are back down to the minimum or hardy or dedicated souls. It *seems the reasons for cycling to avoid public transport etc are only valid in nice weather.*



A bit like pre-pandemic then.

It is obvious that the "craze" for cycling matches the introduction of lockdown. When lockdowns finish and worries about the pandemic reduce the "craze" will finish. Doesn't need a genius to work that one out.

However many new cyclists will continue, some for commuting or leisure, some might even go on to join cycling clubs. Probably the percentage of fair weather cyclists will match that before the pandemic, but as long as that means more people cycling it's all good.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

How credible are the figures though? Nobody has ever surveyed me to ask how many journeys I've been making by what means. I can only go on what I see around me. Cars are a bit down on normal, commercial traffic much like normal, buses are pretty empty and hardly worth the cost of running more than a Sunday service, not many punters coming out of train & tube stations either. Not that many cyclists around. Pedestrians roughly normal. The groups of coronacyclists that were out during the summer have all but disappeared completely. It's just down to the hardened commuters, a handful of all-year roadies doing their winter training, and the casual/utility riders like me who were already around before the virus kicked off just carrying on as normal.


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## FishFright (18 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.



I work in a bike recycling shop / workshop where we sell and service loads of cheap bikes to people who just need transport , some nice older road and MTB for the enthuiast , plus the occasional Hetchins .... ok one Hetchins but it was a full restoration .

On topic , there was a huge boom there through spring thru autumn where we sold bikes faster than we could replace them , it's back to near the winter normal but with a few new faces.


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## mjr (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> How credible are the figures though?


I've written before about the different ways the different figures are flawed. For example, the DfT count points and county council census cordons tend to be on major roads and miss cyclists commuting along greenways, back streets and park routes.

However, the all-day % change estimates will be comparing like with like and so seem like a fair indication of changes.



> Nobody has ever surveyed me to ask how many journeys I've been making by what means.


Well, that's the nature of surveys! You may still have appeared on automatic counters or manual counts, of course.


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## Milkfloat (18 Jan 2021)

I would have expected the majority of new cyclists to be staying off the major roads, so may maybe the figures are a little pessimistic for cycling. It is funny that cars are only up to about 58% of their pre-lockdown numbers, it seems a lot worse.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You miserable guys would make any new cyclist pack up, ask yourself what have you done to encourage somebody to take up and keep up cycling.



If you want to be a missionary and preach, join the church. It's not my job to tell people they should ride rather than getting around by other means. To ride or not to ride is a personal choice and not one I attempt to influence. There is such a thing as too many cyclists. Jn some places during the summer there were so many of them around it was a pain in the arse, TBH, and it's much more peaceful going out for a ride now when the places you want to ride aren't congested with too many other riders.


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## BoldonLad (18 Jan 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> True but the call can be answered with a push of a button on the steering wheel, and tbh I find a handsfree call less distracting then a person in the car, I had called as I thought she would be leaving her shift and walking to the car, but she had been allowed home early.
> 
> *Fact is, the jogger should still of looked before crossing the road.*
> 
> Edit: the call had started before the incident.



I thought I did acknowledge that? But, as we all know, when driving, we have to expect the unexpected.


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## mjr (18 Jan 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I would have expected the majority of new cyclists to be staying off the major roads, so may maybe the figures are a little pessimistic for cycling. It is funny that cars are only up to about 58% of their pre-lockdown numbers, it seems a lot worse.


I've not checked the methodology but I hope that they are using automatic cycle counter data too, which are more likely to be located on cycleways, so likely to capture some of that change.

I agree about the car level being surprisingly low, but I suspect that daffodil drivers are more likely to be driving around during lockdown than careful drivers.

Edit: I checked the methodology. Automatic counters are included. The cycling level data is derived from:
· telecommunications data – anonymised and aggregated data from O2, as a measure of total trip numbers
· National Travel Survey (NTS) results, as a pre-COVID-19 baseline modal split
· DfT Roads automatic traffic count (ATC) index data, as an indication of changes to road users
· LENNON rail data, as an indication of changes to rail users
· sources of cycling use data including automatic cycling counters and camera-based estimates


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you want to be a missionary and preach, join the church. It's not my job to tell people they should ride rather than getting around by other means. To ride or not to ride is a personal choice and not one I attempt to influence. *There is such a thing as too many cyclists.* Jn some places during the summer there were so many of them around it was a pain in the arse, TBH, and it's much more peaceful going out for a ride now when the places you want to ride aren't congested with too many other riders.



Is there? What is the measure, other than that at which you personally find it a pita?

If we had more cyclists perhaps more councils might consider making their roads and streets more cycle friendly.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

Rusty Nails said:


> If we had more cyclists perhaps more councils might consider making their roads and streets more cycle friendly.



There's enough traffic congestion on the roads already, without more idiotic council cycle lane schemes making matters worse. Most of the cyclist congestion I have encountered has been on cycle paths not roads.


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## screenman (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's enough traffic congestion on the roads already, without more idiotic council cycle lane schemes making matters worse. Most of the cyclist congestion I have encountered has been on cycle paths not roads.




You do come across as being a little bit selfish at times. If you are in an area that is crowded then you are part of the crowd.


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## matticus (18 Jan 2021)

I love it when a big HGV shatters the peace on a quiet road. I think:
_Yess! That'll scare all the newbies off my favourite road_ 

Next I need to get rid of the little sods on my favourite deserted cyclepath ...


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You do come across as being a little bit selfish at times. If you are in an area that is crowded then you are part of the crowd.



Which is why I don't wish to add to the crowd and make matters worse! If I'm riding along a road or path and there's only a handful of other people around, it suits me fine. I have no wish to convince a whole load more people to join in and cause the places that are currently still pleasant to ride in, to become congested and unpleasant.


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## Drago (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's enough traffic congestion on the roads already, without more idiotic council cycle lane schemes making matters worse. Most of the cyclist congestion I have encountered has been on cycle paths not roads.


As has been seen justmrecently in Kensington, _removing_ the council cycle lane schemes can actually make teaffic flow measurably worse.

The bottom line is there are too many people on our small island, and thqt isn't likely to change. They all want to get about, and I'd far rather they were all on bicycles than all in cars with 4 empty seats, belching pollution and killing 7 to 10 people a day.

If you think too many cyclists are an annoyance then you've clearly not considered what life would be like if every one of them reverted to the mainstream altenative - the motor car.

Be careful what you wish for.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> You do come across as being a little bit selfish at times. If you are in an area that is crowded then you are part of the crowd.


A bit like those holiday poseurs who say their trip to some foreign destination was fine except for all the tourists.


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## matticus (18 Jan 2021)

"Hell is other people."


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## Smokin Joe (18 Jan 2021)

Drago said:


> If you think too many cyclists are an annoyance then you've clearly not considered what life would be like if every one of them reverted to the mainstream altenative - the motor car.


I wonder by how much the cycling boom has actually cut car use? The new enthusiasts on their expensive bikes still use their cars for shopping, commuting and family trips and the bike riding merely takes the place of sofa surfing or other leisure pursuits.

As for cycle commuters, we would need to know how many left their cars at home in favour of the bike compared to how many cycle instead of taking public transport. I don't know what it is like in the big cities, but my observations out in rural Wales have found that despite there being many more bikes out there are still just as many cars on the roads as there used to be.


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## matticus (18 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wonder by how much the cycling boom has actually cut car use? The new enthusiasts on their expensive bikes still use their cars for shopping, commuting and family trips and the bike riding merely takes the place of sofa surfing or other leisure pursuits.


... such as leisure pursuits *that they drive to* (quite likely for someone who was not against doing outdoor sport).

But heck, if your glass is half-empty, I'm probably not the one to change that for you ...


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## Smokin Joe (18 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> ... such as leisure pursuits *that they drive to* (quite likely for someone who was not against doing outdoor sport).
> 
> But heck, if your glass is half-empty, I'm probably not the one to change that for you ...


Look at the car park at any cycling event, they've nearly all driven to get there and some from the other side of the country. 

Half empty glass, or realist?


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wonder by how much the cycling boom has actually cut car use? The new enthusiasts on their expensive bikes still use their cars for shopping, commuting and family trips and the bike riding merely takes the place of sofa surfing or other leisure pursuits.
> 
> As for cycle commuters, we would need to know how many left their cars at home in favour of the bike compared to how many cycle instead of taking public transport. I don't know what it is like in the big cities, but my observations out in rural Wales have found that despite there being many more bikes out there are still just as many cars on the roads as there used to be.



It is easier to notice an increase in a relatively small number of cyclists than a decrease in a much larger number of cars. Twenty extra cyclists on a country ride are much more noticeable than twenty fewer cars.

I would have thought that distances involved in rural areas mean there would be far less cyclist commuters than in an urban area where distances travelled are smaller.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> Look at the car park at any cycling event, they've nearly all driven to get there and some from the other side of the country.
> 
> Half empty glass, or realist?



I went on a 50 mile cycling event in the Gower Peninsula. I decided to drive the 50 miles there and 50 miles back otherwise I would have been too knackered for the ride, and would have collapsed on the way home.


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## matticus (18 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> Look at the car park at any cycling event, they've nearly all driven to get there and some from the other side of the country.


That doesn't actually impact on what I posted. I'm certainly not disputing that lots of people drive to events!

(and why else would there be cars in the car park :P )


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## Once a Wheeler (18 Jan 2021)

A craze is a craze and will go the way of Mutant Ninja Turtles and Pokémon: the size of the niche in-crowd may grow but it remains a niche activity. Where the pandemic may have a long-term effect is in a new relationship between residence and workplace. If city-centre working declines, if populations tilt towards larger houses with home offices in rural or semi-rural areas, then the bike becomes the vehicle for the run to the local shop, visits to local friends and occasional, rather than daily, commuting. Wait and see.


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> "Hell is other people."


Audax UK's new motto?


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Jan 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> Audax UK's new motto?



Audax - Anti Social Distancing is our mantra


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wonder by how much the cycling boom has actually cut car use? The new enthusiasts on their expensive bikes still use their cars for shopping, commuting and family trips and the bike riding merely takes the place of sofa surfing or other leisure pursuits.
> 
> As for cycle commuters, we would need to know how many left their cars at home in favour of the bike compared to how many cycle instead of taking public transport.



I wonder also how many of the cyclists chuck their bike in or on their car, then drive some considerable distance from home to the area in which they want to do their riding? It's obvious a lot of MTB'ers do this, just from observing bikes on the roofs of cars. Maybe a little less with roadies, but I've seen plenty of those car-borne too. 
You could even argue that if more cycling is resulting in more driving to access the cycling, then increasing cycling actually adds to, not reduces congestion!
The only type of cycling that cuts congestion is where it displaces any form of motorised road passenger transport, and even then it won't improve anything if cycling facilities reduce road space for motorised traffic and cause that to be more congested even after you subtract the number of journeys transferred from motors to bikes.
We live in an overcrowded country, and people no longer have predominantly local lifestyles where they live, work and shop within an area that is small enough to be easily accessible without using motorised transport. Fundamentally, it's not a transport problem, but one of employment patterns and land use. The more you rationalise and centralise everything at a smaller number of locations, including public services and workplaces, the more travel it generates per head of population.


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## screenman (18 Jan 2021)

No crowds in these parts, I cannot figure why anyone who dislikes crowds lives in a crowded area.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Jan 2021)

screenman said:


> No crowds in these parts, I cannot figure why anyone who dislikes crowds lives in a crowded area.



So they have something to moan about.


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## BoldonLad (18 Jan 2021)

We seem to have got into a rut of discussing reducing congestion and emissions? These are of course laudable aims, but, there are other benefits to increased cycling, eg: increased fitness; improved health (mental and physical), plus, if more vehicle drivers are also cyclists, perhaps (I only said perhaps), they will show more empathy with cyclists.


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## mjr (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> even then it won't improve anything if cycling facilities reduce road space for motorised traffic and cause that to be more congested even after you subtract the number of journeys transferred from motors to bikes.


Surely it's still improved if there are some fewer vehicles and so less pollution and the road space reallocation means it is further away from people walking or the doors/windows of houses on that road?


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## itboffin (18 Jan 2021)

I noticed whilst out for a walk today a lot more non roadie roadies out like lock down 1 also a lot more walkers and everyone saying hello again, i really hope this stays post COVID


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## Solocle (18 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I wonder also how many of the cyclists chuck their bike in or on their car, then drive some considerable distance from home to the area in which they want to do their riding? It's obvious a lot of MTB'ers do this, just from observing bikes on the roofs of cars. Maybe a little less with roadies, but I've seen plenty of those car-borne too.
> You could even argue that if more cycling is resulting in more driving to access the cycling, then increasing cycling actually adds to, not reduces congestion!
> The only type of cycling that cuts congestion is where it displaces any form of motorised road passenger transport, and even then it won't improve anything if cycling facilities reduce road space for motorised traffic and cause that to be more congested even after you subtract the number of journeys transferred from motors to bikes.
> We live in an overcrowded country, and people no longer have predominantly local lifestyles where they live, work and shop within an area that is small enough to be easily accessible without using motorised transport. Fundamentally, it's not a transport problem, but one of employment patterns and land use. The more you rationalise and centralise everything at a smaller number of locations, including public services and workplaces, the more travel it generates per head of population.


I've done that, especially when trying to join up my two veloviewer clusters. I actually have a shot of the support car passing me from one of those rides (driven by my parents)...





But I've never driven to an audax - it's invariably been the train. I mean, I've only done 3 audaxes, and was a student, but still...




Events are special, and don't account for much road riding.


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## rogerzilla (18 Jan 2021)

Figures show cycling is currently about 60% of "normal". It was often over 300% in lockdown 1. The weather's pants and we're not allowed to visit a cafe in the next county, so it's hardly surprising.


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## slowmotion (22 Jan 2021)

There are still lots of people on bikes in west London. During the first lockdown, when traffic was really light, I saw a very happy family of five cycling down Cromwell Road which is normally six lanes of insanely busy and fast traffic. In the middle of the group was a small girl, no more than five years old, on a pink bike with a huge grin on her face. None of them looked like they would forget the fun. Like most people who cycle, they'll probably do it less in wet and cold weather, but I'm pretty sure they'll be back, and if they don't continue, that's their choice.
It isn't compulsory to go out in a blizzard just wearing a thong to prove you're "a proper cyclist".


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## mustang1 (22 Jan 2021)

A small percentage of new cyclists will continue but that does not constitute a boom. Just like with the last cycling boom came to an end, so will this one; cars are just too convenient. The advent of electric cars will make this more so - they are so easy to use even for short trips with no requirement to warm the engine up and very few serviceable parts.

I doubt there will be a huge government initiative to really shake things up.


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## rogerzilla (22 Jan 2021)

mustang1 said:


> The advent of electric cars will make this more so - they are so easy to use even for short trips with no requirement to warm the engine up


I'd thought that too. There is a penalty in winter if the owner chooses to pre-heat the interior using mains power, but otherwise there is no disincentive to very short trips. It's the same with PHEVs. Mind you, the low mpg and extra pollution don't seem to put people off driving a couple of hundred yards in a petrol car.


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## MontyVeda (22 Jan 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> Is there a pandemic cycling craze? I've not noticed any significant change up here.


I was just thinking the very same thing.


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## Cycleops (22 Jan 2021)

mustang1 said:


> A small percentage of new cyclists will continue but that does not constitute a boom. Just like with the last cycling boom came to an end, so will this one; cars are just too convenient. The advent of electric cars will make this more so - they are so easy to use even for short trips with no requirement to warm the engine up and very few serviceable parts.
> 
> I doubt there will be a huge government initiative to really shake things up.


You need to remember that the majority on here are also car owners and for some that live in remote communities a car is pretty much a necessity.
The government has banned the sale of fossil fuel cars from 2030. What else could they do? And do you mean an initiative to promote cycling or to discourage the use of cars and how could they do that?


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## sheddy (22 Jan 2021)

^ By adopting European best practice on planning for transport and housing


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## Oldhippy (22 Jan 2021)

Bike Nation by Peter Walker is a well written logical look at what, why and how to improve things. Highly recommended if you haven't read it.


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## mustang1 (22 Jan 2021)

Cycleops said:


> You need to remember that the majority on here are also car owners and for some that live in remote communities a car is pretty much a necessity.
> The government has banned the sale of fossil fuel cars from 2030. What else could they do? And do you mean an initiative to promote cycling or to discourage the use of cars and how could they do that?



Something like what was done in Amsterdam, a total shake up. I also find it hard to believe fossil fuel cars will be banned from 2030; they might say everything should be hybrid (subjective on my part).


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## mustang1 (22 Jan 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I'd thought that too. There is a penalty in winter if the owner chooses to pre-heat the interior using mains power, but otherwise there is no disincentive to very short trips. It's the same with PHEVs. Mind you, the low mpg and extra pollution don't seem to put people off driving a couple of hundred yards in a petrol car.


The problem with PHEVs is it's very easy to not charge the battery from the mains supply overnight: "Meh, it's too cold out there, I'll charge it another day". Unless one is disciplined to charge the vehicle.


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## Archie_tect (22 Jan 2021)

mustang1 said:


> Something like what was done in Amsterdam, a total shake up. I also find it hard to believe fossil fuel cars will be banned from 2030; they might say everything should be hybrid (subjective on my part).


I think they've said hybrid cars will be banned in 2035.


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## matticus (22 Jan 2021)

- " ...And do you mean an initiative to promote cycling or to discourage the use of cars and how could they do that?"



mustang1 said:


> Something like what was done in Amsterdam, a total shake up.


Yup. And if a tin-pot little country like Holland can do it, think what _Great _Britain must be capable of!!


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## dodgy (22 Jan 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> I think they've said hybrid cars will be banned in 2035.


In reality, hardly any manufacturer is going to design and build hybrids, nobody will want them. Much more to go wrong with them for a start.
Most people will eventually cotton on that Toyota's miraculous 'self charging' marketing words is just pure bollocks and will go full electric.


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## Archie_tect (22 Jan 2021)

dodgy said:


> In reality, hardly any manufacturer is going to design and build hybrids, nobody will want them. Much more to go wrong with them for a start.
> Most people will eventually cotton on that Toyota's miraculous 'self charging' marketing words is just pure bollocks and will go full electric.


Loads of manufacturers have switched a lot of production to PHEV, so I think they'll become more and more popular [once the price comes down!].


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## dodgy (22 Jan 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> Loads of manufacturers have switched a lot of production to PHEV, so I think they'll become more and more popular [once the price comes down!].



Only because of the fear of change by customers, also easy to slap a small battery under the boot and a crappy electric motor to one of the axles and go "hey, look at our phev" which hasn't required actual innovation or tooling changes. I'll stand by it, PHEVs are dead once the public become educated, and they will.


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## snorri (22 Jan 2021)

Once a Wheeler said:


> If city-centre working declines, if populations tilt towards larger houses with home offices in rural or semi-rural areas, then the bike becomes the vehicle for the run to the local shop, visits to local friends .


I have my doubts, as long as rural roads have a 60mph NSL, utility cycling is not going to catch on.


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## dodgy (22 Jan 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> My biggest concern with electric was running out of charge and having nowhere to recharge. The petrol aspect is a nice safety blanket in that respect. So for my usage (occasional long trips of one to three hundred miles, sometimes in France. Some trips of around 50 miles. Very few short trips.) I didn't like the idea of full electric.



Youtube is chock-full of people doing 1000 mile drives across Europe, often in a single day. I've done Wirral to Morzine in a single day in a borrowed Tesla Model 3, it's a piece of the proverbial. Your real limit on long drives is your bladder size, how hungry you, and how tired you're getting. You may as well stop for a brew and a pee, meanwhile your car is charging up. We did Wirral to Morzine (or very near it) in 14 hours door to door including stopping at Eurotunnel, charging, etc. In other years it's taken about the same in a normal ICE car.

You just need to relearn how you view long drives.
Anyway, off topic!


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## matticus (22 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> I have my doubts, as long as rural roads have a 60mph NSL, utility cycling is not going to catch on.


Not all rural roads are NSL; not having driven for a few years, I'd failed to notice that most of our out-of-town local roads are 40mph (with the odd 50 just to confuse everyone!). Sections that are 10 miles between significant villages or towns wouldn't attract much Utliity Cycling anyway, so they don't matter (they're just for us leisure cyclists to worry about!)

Holland and Belgium have plenty of roads still - you can still move a wardrobe when you need to


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## ianrauk (22 Jan 2021)

slowmotion said:


> It isn't compulsory to go out in a blizzard just wearing a thong to prove you're "a proper cyclist".



Then dont do it


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## matticus (22 Jan 2021)

slowmotion said:


> ...
> None of them looked like they would forget the fun. Like most people who cycle, they'll probably do it less in wet and cold weather, but I'm pretty sure they'll be back, and if they don't continue, that's their choice.
> It isn't compulsory to go out in a blizzard just wearing a thong to prove you're "a proper cyclist".


https://winterbiketoworkday.org/


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## Lovacott (22 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I was out for about two hours yesterday on foot and on bike and I saw one carbon roadie, one hybrid rider, and one youth standing astride a cheap Challenge MTB outside the kebab shop. That was it, so four riders including me on a top of the range Apollo! .


I hadn't seen any road cyclists out on my route since November until the other night when I was delayed home by a bit of overtime followed by a roadside puncture repair.

So instead of hitting the home straight at 5.50pm, it was more like 7.10pm.

There were quite a few people out and about on bikes on my final stretch into town.

I can only assume that they are now back at work in this less than total lockdown and they are going out on their bikes after they got home from work?

Still, it's a hell of a contrast to back in June when the local back lanes seemed to have been taken over by Boardman ADV 8.6's with badly fitted , fully clipped in Lycra riders and little old me on my Apollo, football shorts and workboots.

The important thing is though, is not to make cycling out to be some kind of elitist or exclusive sport.

At the end of the day, a bike is a bike and by extension, anyone who rides one, is a cyclist.

If someone wants to go to Halfords and spend £140 on an entry level bike, they should be encouraged to do so and when they are on the road (even if it is just once a year), they should be acknowledged for their efforts.


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## Cycleops (22 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> Yup. And if a tin-pot little country like Holland can do it, think what _Great _Britain must be capable of!!


Agree that Holland is a tin pot country but the topography is rather different to the UK.
Amsterdam is just one city and considerably smaller than London.


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## Lovacott (22 Jan 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Agree that Holland is a tin pot country but the topography is rather different to the UK.



A lot of my workmates dusted off their bikes during lockdown number one and most of them loved it apart from the "bloody hills".


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## snorri (22 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> Not all rural roads are NSL


Some are 70mph, but I don't know of any rural roads with a limit below 60mph.


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## SGG on a bike (22 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> Some are 70mph, but I don't know of any rural roads with a limit below 60mph.


Quite a few in North Suffolk/ Norfolk now with 40/50 limits. It's very tedious sometimes trying to get around for work, especially if it's holiday season with overcrowded roads. Bearing in mind I'm two hours drive away from the nearest motorway in any direction, I don't have too much of an issue with 60 nsl of rural roads. You'd be doing well to get anywhere close to that.


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## mjr (22 Jan 2021)

mustang1 said:


> The problem with PHEVs is it's very easy to not charge the battery from the mains supply overnight: "Meh, it's too cold out there, I'll charge it another day". Unless one is disciplined to charge the vehicle.


Don't you just plug it in when you get home and remote control the charging?


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## mjr (22 Jan 2021)

SGG on a bike said:


> Quite a few in North Suffolk/ Norfolk now with 40/50 limits. It's very tedious sometimes trying to get around for work, especially if it's holiday season with overcrowded roads. Bearing in mind I'm two hours drive away from the nearest motorway in any direction, I don't have too much of an issue with 60 nsl of rural roads. You'd be doing well to get anywhere close to that.


Bizarrely, the A/B roads are getting 40 and 50 limits while the C and unclassified roads are being left at 60, which is insane and having predictable results with satnavs directing more and more drivers onto wider C roads to avoid parallel 40/50mph A roads!

This should be fixed nationally by updating the National Speed Limit to 40mph for unlined unclassified roads, not expensively by making highways departments slowly issue hundreds or thousands of traffic regulation orders.


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## snorri (22 Jan 2021)

SGG on a bike said:


> Quite a few in North Suffolk/ Norfolk now with 40/50 limits...................................................., I don't have too much of an issue with 60 nsl of rural roads. You'd be doing well to get anywhere close to that.


Interesting!
It's the drivers trying to maintain 60 on roads where 40 would be more appropriate that trouble me.


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## matticus (22 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> Interesting!
> It's the drivers trying to maintain 60 on roads where 40 would be more appropriate that trouble me.


I'd like to think that is the reason for some councils installing 40 limits :-)


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## Johnno260 (22 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> Interesting!
> It's the drivers trying to maintain 60 on roads where 40 would be more appropriate that trouble me.


 I live rurally and people try to do 60 on roads that aren’t suitable for the limit, funny thing is people see the limits as the target.

I live on a 90 degree bend, my neighbour got so pissed with people coming through his fence he got permission and put bollards and and embankment in front of them, least now if they do it they just turn themselves into a grease stain, then again it didn’t stop the idiot in a Range Rover coming round the corner at speed while I was entering my drive way, he argued the toss that he wasn’t speeding, but swerving crossing a grass verge, pathway, and smashing a telegraph pole and coming to a stop about 15 meters up the road says otherwise.

Then getting agressive with me when I went to see if he was ok, so I told him to take hike, called the old bill and let him pick up the pieces of his car.

I have complained about the road and corner loads but parish council said unless someone is killed they won’t do anything about it.


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## mjr (22 Jan 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> I have complained about the road and corner loads but parish council said unless someone is killed they won’t do anything about it.


If England, then the roads are for the county council to fix and the law stops other councils messing with it. All a parish council can do there is repair the verge and stop dogs shooting on it, pretty much.


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## SGG on a bike (22 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> Interesting!
> It's the drivers trying to maintain 60 on roads where 40 would be more appropriate that trouble me.


Totally agree. I fear a similar phenomenon to our experience with a 20 limit in our village would occur where speeds have actually increased (according to the parish council/community speedwatch guys). It’s reported that it’s largely due to drivers assuming the vehicles coming towards them are going more slowly and accelerating to bets them to the gap to save waiting. The other issue is policing it, of course.

A rural “A” road not far from here used to be a 60 Nsl and has always been known for regular accidents. A few years ago it went down to 50. No reduction in accidents. Last year, reduced again to 40. Still no reduction in accidents (as reported by local authorities). The only thing that’s happened is an increase in congestion on that stretch of road, frustrated drivers and some attempting stupid overtakes that they would never have done with the higher limit and vehicles travelling at potentially higher speeds. I’m absolutely not advocating speeding or inappropriate speed, but lower limits aren’t necessarily the answer, especially if it’s a lack of attention thats causing the accidents. Investment in better driver training and awareness would be money better spent.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Jan 2021)

Absolutely, unrealistically low speed limits just result in more tailgating and aggressive overtaking. Roads have a natural speed governed by the straightness, length, width, visibility sight lines and flatness - and in the absence of any limit drivers will tend to gravitate to around that speed. Some will overdo it and crash, but most will find what the limit for maintaining control is through experience. If you artificially set a limit substantially below what the traffic would naturally pace itself at, then you get all the erratic driving behaviour and blind overtakes as drivers who want to get a move on get frustrated by the goody two shoes types who are piously dawdling along at 3 mph below the already way too low limit.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> If England, then the roads are for the county council to fix and the law stops other councils messing with it. All a parish council can do there is repair the verge and stop dogs shooting on it, pretty much.


It’s England and true Parish council can’t do anything really, the county don’t care either as they have been spoken to before, and there is a primary school on the same road.

I just don’t like the reactionary nature of it, a preventative measure could save a life.


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## slowmotion (22 Jan 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Then dont do it


 I just can't help it Doctor.


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## mjr (22 Jan 2021)

SGG on a bike said:


> an increase in congestion on that stretch of road,


A lower speed limit normally means more cars fit because the stopping distances decrease (which is how variable speed limit zones work), so how can it have increased congestion?



> frustrated drivers and some attempting stupid overtakes that they would never have done with the higher limit and vehicles travelling at potentially higher speeds.


They need catching and removing from the roads before they hurt or kill someone. If lower limits means they out themselves, great!


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## matticus (23 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> lower speed limit normally means more cars fit because the stopping distances decrease (which is how variable speed limit zones work), so how can it have increased congestion?


Yup. Not very intuitive, but very true!


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

snorri said:


> Some are 70mph, but I don't know of any rural roads with a limit below 60mph.


I wish they'd put some limits on some of the rural roads around here.

Boy racers in their tarted up Fiestas love going out for a hooning session up the narrow lanes in the summer.

I saw a couple on one lane a few months back who were using walkie talkies to let each other know when the road was clear so that they could drive a stretch with blind bends without having to slow down.

Normal drivers would probably do the same lane with three blind bends at about 25mph max. These guys were doing the full sixty. 

I did have one guy hurtling towards me last week on a straight stretch. When he saw my three lights, he must have assumed I was a car because he slammed on his anchors. Took him an age to come to a halt on the wet gravel. 

If it had been summer, he probably wouldn't have bothered trying to stop and would have forced me into the hedgerow.


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> A lower speed limit normally means more cars fit because the stopping distances decrease (which is how variable speed limit zones work), so how can it have increased congestion?
> They need catching and removing from the roads before they hurt or kill someone. If lower limits means they out themselves, great!



The trouble with speed limits in the UK, is that they are rarely enforced. 

Speed cameras are mainly fixed and everybody knows where they are.

There was one local to me which was placed at the bottom of a hill behind a tree in a 30mph zone.

Everybody local knew it was there but the tourists who flock here in the summer had no idea and always got caught.

Highways ended up getting so many complaints from holiday makers that they ended up moving it away from the tree so it could be clearly seen.

So now, people brake for the camera, go past at 30mph and then speed up to 50 again along the remaining half mile of 30mph road.

Over in places like Australia, they have traffic enforcement officers hiding in bushes or old looking cars parked on the side of the road with a Gatso fitted inside. Penalty points are doubled for long weekends and from Christmas Eve to January 2nd.

As a consequence, in the cities themselves, people tend to obey the limits (It's a different story in the sticks though).


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## matticus (23 Jan 2021)

I've ALWAYS said that speed limits are a very blunt instrument (e.g. 69mph being legal on many roads despite monsoon conditions in the dark). 
There are probably roads where they help more than others, and as recent posts show, there are enforcement/compliance issues aplenty.
Safety can probably be improved by different measures in a lot of places.

But_ in general_, 40 is better than 60 on a twisty road with no pavements.


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## Gunk (23 Jan 2021)

Lovacott said:


> The trouble with speed limits in the UK, is that they are rarely enforced.
> 
> Speed cameras are mainly fixed and everybody knows where they are.
> 
> ...



We live on a road which leads into the City, it should be 30 and there was yet another fatality late last year, very few drivers take any notice of the speed limit and since lock down speeds have definitely increased


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

Gunk said:


> We live on a road which leads into the City, it should be 30 and there was yet another fatality late last year, very few drivers take any notice of the speed limit and since lock down speeds have definitely increased


Traffic is a great moderator of speed. I don't think I've ever once gone over 30mph on the clockwise stretch of the M25 between the M3 and the M4. 

That's one of the things I liked about city commuting. In traffic, most of the time I was going faster than the cars.


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> I've ALWAYS said that speed limits are a very blunt instrument (e.g. 69mph being legal on many roads despite monsoon conditions in the dark).
> There are probably roads where they help more than others, and as recent posts show, there are enforcement/compliance issues aplenty.
> Safety can probably be improved by different measures in a lot of places.
> 
> But_ in general_, 40 is better than 60 on a twisty road with no pavements.



On the A303 Devon to London road, traffic slows right down for a mile or so either side of Stonehenge. You only need one car to slow down whilst the missus takes a piccy and the whole road grinds to a halt.

So instead of speed cameras and signs, why don't we put ancient monuments in speeding hot spots?


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2021)

Plus giant mirrors that only flip up if you’re driving slower than speed limit. So looks like you are about to have a head on.


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Brilliant idea.
> 
> Another possibility would be wrecked cars. Everyone loves to slow down and get a good look at a crash.


A bunch of flowers, big flat spliff and five empty Stella cans under a lamp post. Plus a bit of red paint on the road for added drama.

That'd do it.


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## mjr (23 Jan 2021)

Lovacott said:


> Highways ended up getting so many complaints from holiday makers that they ended up moving it away from the tree so it could be clearly seen.
> 
> So now, people brake for the camera, go past at 30mph and then speed up to 50 again along the remaining half mile of 30mph road.


Council error. Replace council and try again. 

More seriously, that is not a great argument against speed limits.


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## Lovacott (23 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> Council error. Replace council and try again.
> 
> More seriously, that is not a great argument against speed limits.


I love fixed speed cameras with signs 200 yards in advance.

They force you to slow down on the stretch of road that you need to be driving on slowly. However, the fact that they are so well publicised, lets you get away with murder on the stretches where there are no cameras.

Where I work, all of our lorries are fitted with intelligent sat nav governed speed limiters.

Obvious, but they should be mandatory in all vehicles.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2021)

And that’s the rub. The tech exists now to force cars to stick to limits. So why not make it mandatory in new cars from next year?


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## mjr (23 Jan 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> And that’s the rub. The tech exists now to force cars to stick to limits. So why not make it mandatory in new cars from next year?


No reason except cost, but we will still need enforcement to detect and punish those who disable the tech.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> No reason except cost, but we will still need enforcement to detect and punish those who disable the tech.



Enforcement easily done via tech recording mileage as well as odometer. At MOT if they differ then instant 24 month ban.


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## SkipdiverJohn (23 Jan 2021)

There seems to be a lot of people here all in favour of enforcement against motorists. I'd like to see a lot more enforcement action against idiot cyclists, which means a significant proportion of cyclists. You know the ones who descend at breakneck speeds, buzz other cyclists and pedestrians, ride without lights, and generally act like they can behave however they want, but think everybody else should have a load of rules to abide by.


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## classic33 (23 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There seems to be a lot of people here all in favour of enforcement against motorists. I'd like to see a lot more enforcement action against idiot cyclists, which means a significant proportion of cyclists. You know the ones who descend at breakneck speeds, buzz other cyclists and pedestrians, ride without lights, and generally act like they can behave however they want, but think everybody else should have a load of rules to abide by.


At present a speedometer isn't a legal requirement on a pedal cycle. How does the cyclist judge their speed if they don't have one fitted?

As far as pavement riders are concerned, can we concentrate on pavement parkers/drivers at the same time.


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## GoldenLamprey (23 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There seems to be a lot of people here all in favour of enforcement against motorists. I'd like to see a lot more enforcement action against idiot cyclists, which means a significant proportion of cyclists. You know the ones who descend at breakneck speeds, buzz other cyclists and pedestrians, ride without lights, and generally act like they can behave however they want, but think everybody else should have a load of rules to abide by.


Motorists kill 500 pedestrians and cyclists per year, on average, plus plenty of their fellow motorists. Cyclists kill two pedestrians per year, on average, and have never killed a motorist in their vehicle. Which do you think we should concentrate resources on?


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## jim55 (23 Jan 2021)

Speed is not the issue for bikes I guess,riding like a fanny is ,ignoring red lights ,down one ways wrong way ,up and down pavements to avoid stuff etc,that's what is meant


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## GoldenLamprey (23 Jan 2021)

jim55 said:


> Speed is not the issue for bikes I guess,riding like a fanny is ,ignoring red lights ,down one ways wrong way ,up and down pavements to avoid stuff etc,that's what is meant


All pretty stupid stuff, I think we would all agree. What are the consequences of these actions, then?


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## classic33 (23 Jan 2021)

GoldenLamprey said:


> All pretty stupid stuff, I think we would all agree. What are the consequences of these actions, then?


Vehicles travelling the correct way down one way streets taking avoiding action. Those on the bike doing likewise. At present mounting the pavement seems an easy option for all concerned. Where do we expect the pedestrians to go to avoid either road vehicle?


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## Paulus (24 Jan 2021)

*Final statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for 2019 show that there were:*

1,752 reported *road deaths*, similar to the level seen since 2012.
153,158 *casualties* of all severities in reported *road traffic accidents*, a decrease of 5% compared to 2018
The figures for 2020 haven't been published yet, but if this number of deaths and injuries happened in any other form of transport, Sea, Air or Railways there would be serious questions asked with the possibility of them being closed down.
Because this is the roads and many people believe it is a right to have a vehicle the death toll seems to be overlooked. 
We have all seen the headlines when a cyclist for whatever reason injures someone, but drivers of vehicles, although they do get prosecuted when caught seem to take it as an occupational hazard. Then some have the gaul to complain that they have been done for speeding.


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## Lovacott (24 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There seems to be a lot of people here all in favour of enforcement against motorists. I'd like to see a lot more enforcement action against idiot cyclists, which means a significant proportion of cyclists. You know the ones who descend at breakneck speeds, buzz other cyclists and pedestrians, ride without lights, and generally act like they can behave however they want, but think everybody else should have a load of rules to abide by.


I'm in favour of a cycling proficiency course becoming part of the school curriculum for all primary school kids.

It would cover such things as the road rules, basic bike mechanics (repairing a flat etc.), road safety and etiquette.

Much more relevant than R.E. or Rounders.


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## DRM (24 Jan 2021)

SGG on a bike said:


> Totally agree. I fear a similar phenomenon to our experience with a 20 limit in our village would occur where speeds have actually increased (according to the parish council/community speedwatch guys). It’s reported that it’s largely due to drivers assuming the vehicles coming towards them are going more slowly and accelerating to bets them to the gap to save waiting. The other issue is policing it, of course.
> 
> A rural “A” road not far from here used to be a 60 Nsl and has always been known for regular accidents. A few years ago it went down to 50. No reduction in accidents. Last year, reduced again to 40. Still no reduction in accidents (as reported by local authorities). The only thing that’s happened is an increase in congestion on that stretch of road, frustrated drivers and some attempting stupid overtakes that they would never have done with the higher limit and vehicles travelling at potentially higher speeds. I’m absolutely not advocating speeding or inappropriate speed, but lower limits aren’t necessarily the answer, especially if it’s a lack of attention thats causing the accidents. Investment in better driver training and awareness would be money better spent.


My daughter failed her first test for slowing down at a narrow bridge, rural road over the M1, you can't see what's coming in the opposite direction, many of whom are slightly over the white line, then there's a tight double bend past a golf course entrance, it's national speed limit, the examiner said it was being over cautious, I'd say driving with due care and attention, I've been along there too many times to count, and I would dearly love to have taken that examiner down there at around 50mph and scare the crap out of him, especially taking the racing line at the double bend past the golf course, and then slow down a little for the last tight left hander then blast up the straight at around 60 mph ish, I'd love to know his feelings on inappropriate speed after that.


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## GoldenLamprey (24 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Vehicles travelling the correct way down one way streets taking avoiding action. Those on the bike doing likewise. At present mounting the pavement seems an easy option for all concerned. Where do we expect the pedestrians to go to avoid either road vehicle?


Feel free to shout at them, if it bothers you. I don't see this behaviour anywhere near the levels the Daily Mail would have you believe.

I'll concentrate on not getting killed by 1.5 tonnes of metal box on the road.


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## Solocle (24 Jan 2021)

GoldenLamprey said:


> All pretty stupid stuff, I think we would all agree. What are the consequences of these actions, then?


I technically jumped a light earlier this morning. What surprised me was that the light *actually changed *for me, it never detects me on the carbon bike. I was on the steel commuter this morning, but even then it's quite unlikely.

I was past the stop line when it changed.





When you get used to a traffic light not detecting you, you often ignore said traffic light. When you get used to traffic lights in general failing in this manner, you end up showing disdain for them all.


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## Lovacott (24 Jan 2021)

Solocle said:


> I technically jumped a light earlier this morning. What surprised me was that the light *actually changed *for me, it never detects me on the carbon bike. I was on the steel commuter this morning, but even then it's quite unlikely.


 There's one set of lights on my commute and on the way home, there are enough cars about to trigger them for me if they are red.

On the way to work, I've had to "jump" them a few times. I'm a bit sneaky though because I pop myself forward off the saddle and walk the bike over the line so that technically, I haven't ridden a vehicle through a red light.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Lovacott said:


> On the way to work, I've had to "jump" them a few times. I'm a bit sneaky though because I pop myself forward off the saddle and walk the bike over the line so that technically, I haven't ridden a vehicle through a red light.


The law is written in such a way to outlaw that action (I think the offence is to propel the vehicle over the line, rather than driving it), probably because old cars were easier to push than modern fat ones.

Then you realise that they can write that one precisely but won't outlaw being parked on a pavement and it is just


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## Solocle (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> The law is written in such a way to outlaw that action (I think the offence is to propel the vehicle over the line, rather than driving it), probably because old cars were easier to push than modern fat ones.
> 
> Then you realise that they can write that one precisely but won't outlaw being parked on a pavement and it is just


I think you're in the clear if you lift the bike up and carry it, though!


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## Lovacott (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> The law is written in such a way to outlaw that action (I think the offence is to propel the vehicle over the line, rather than driving it), probably because old cars were easier to push than modern fat ones.
> 
> Then you realise that they can write that one precisely but won't outlaw being parked on a pavement and it is just


Pavement parking is a huge problem where I live.

Our houses are all footpath terraces on a very steep hill with a road no wider than an average sized car.

There is a section of residents permit parking which we all pay for but it only takes about a quarter of the cars. The rest of us have to park in the long stay in town for £3 per day.

Overnight, people coming home from work will just bung their car on the pavement if they can't find a residents spot. It gets enforced in the night about once a year but the rest of the time, they get away with it.

It's that bad, that when I walk down the hill into town, It's easier to walk in the road than it is to play mazes with the cars on the pavement.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Solocle said:


> I think you're in the clear if you lift the bike up and carry it, though!


I am fairly confident that is incorrect but cannot cite case law on it!


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

DRM said:


> My daughter failed her first test for slowing down at a narrow bridge, rural road over the M1, you can't see what's coming in the opposite direction, many of whom are slightly over the white line, then there's a tight double bend past a golf course entrance, it's national speed limit, the examiner said it was being over cautious, I'd say driving with due care and attention, I've been along there too many times to count, and I would dearly love to have taken that examiner down there at around 50mph and scare the crap out of him, especially taking the racing line at the double bend past the golf course, and then slow down a little for the last tight left hander then blast up the straight at around 60 mph ish, I'd love to know his feelings on inappropriate speed after that.


I'd suggest your daughter failed her test because the examiner thought she did not have the ability to read the road properly and was unduly hesitant when it was perfectly safe to proceed. Rather different to "Taking the racing line at 50mph". Driving test examiners have no more wish to die during the test than anyone else.

I spent two decades as an ADI and sat in the back seat during many a test. Believe me, in most cases the candidates version of what happened during the driving test was way different to what I witnessed with my own eyes.


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## snorri (24 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you artificially set a limit substantially below what the traffic would naturally pace itself at, then you get all the erratic driving behaviour and blind overtakes as drivers who want to get a move on get frustrated by the goody two shoes types who are piously dawdling along at 3 mph below the already way too low limit.


There is just so much wrong with that sentence that I can't be bothered to highlight the worst points.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I spent two decades as an ADI and sat in the back seat during many a test. Believe me, in most cases the candidates version of what happened during the driving test was way different to what I witnessed with my own eyes.


Meanwhile, I failed a test for driving too slowly and my instructor said after that he expected me to fail because that examiner had a reputation for failing people who didn't get up to the limit at every opportunity.

When I exceeded the limit in my retest (35 in a 30), that was only a minor fault! What idiot set these speed criteria?


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## DRM (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd suggest your daughter failed her test because the examiner thought she did not have the ability to read the road properly and was unduly hesitant when it was perfectly safe to proceed. Rather different to "Taking the racing line at 50mph". Driving test examiners have no more wish to die during the test than anyone else.
> 
> I spent two decades as an ADI and sat in the back seat during many a test. Believe me, in most cases the candidates version of what happened during the driving test was way different to what I witnessed with my own eyes.


You suggest wrong, as it is a blind humped bridge with a bend in it, slowing to 30 mph is totally prudent, and not dithering in any way, as I said on coming vehicles always stray over the white line, and it’s also narrow, then you come to a double bend and the entrance to a golf club, if someone sets off from there it’s also blind so there’s every chance a vehicle could pull out of there too as they can’t see what’s coming till it’s upon them, NSL is totally inappropriate and if the examiner thinks so I will gladly prove it isn’t.
Secondly you learn to “read the road” properly once you get driving on your own, not during lessons, it comes with many miles of experience, a driving test only shows you have the basics.
It’s common knowledge that only a certain percentage pass first time despite how well they perform


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## DRM (24 Jan 2021)

Solocle said:


> I technically jumped a light earlier this morning. What surprised me was that the light *actually changed *for me, it never detects me on the carbon bike. I was on the steel commuter this morning, but even then it's quite unlikely.
> 
> I was past the stop line when it changed.
> View attachment 570363
> ...


They can’t detect a carbon bike, they are useless, yet steel or aluminium is no problem, due to the wire loop set into the road


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## Archie_tect (24 Jan 2021)

DRM said:


> You suggest wrong, as it is a blind humped bridge with a bend in it, slowing to 30 mph is totally prudent, and not dithering in any way, as I said on coming vehicles always stray over the white line, and it’s also narrow, then you come to a double bend and the entrance to a golf club, if someone sets off from there it’s also blind so there’s every chance a vehicle could pull out of there too as they can’t see what’s coming till it’s upon them, NSL is totally inappropriate and if the examiner thinks so I will gladly prove it isn’t.
> Secondly you learn to “read the road” properly once you get driving on your own, not during lessons, it comes with many miles of experience, a driving test only shows you have the basics.
> It’s common knowledge that only a certain percentage pass first time despite how well they perform


It won't do your daughter any harm in the long run to perhaps have more time with an instructor than you think she needs- it's frustrating for her and expensive but she'll get there.

Took my son and daughter 4 and 3 tests respectively to pass, for different reasons but they came out of it as good drivers as a result.


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## DRM (24 Jan 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> It won't do your daughter any harm in the long run to perhaps have more time with an instructor than you think she needs- it's frustrating for her and expensive but she'll get there.
> 
> Took my son and daughter 4 and 3 tests respectively to pass, for different reasons but they came out of it as good drivers as a result.


She passed second time nearly six years ago, which was a relief as the bus journey to work was horrendous, with two buses and literally 2 minutes to get from one to the other.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

DRM said:


> It’s common knowledge that only a certain percentage pass first time despite how well they perform


It might be "Common knowledge" but it is also absolute rubbish. If you sat in on driving tests you'd realise how fair the driving test is. Examiners do not set out to fail a certain percentage - over 50% of test candidates are perfectly capable of failing themselves, even very good ones who crack under pressure.

And no offence to your daughter, but a failed candidates version of the test bears little or no resemblance to what actually happened out there. I saw it all enough times to know that.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> Meanwhile, I failed a test for driving too slowly and my instructor said after that he expected me to fail because that examiner had a reputation for failing people who didn't get up to the limit at every opportunity.
> 
> When I exceeded the limit in my retest (35 in a 30), that was only a minor fault! What idiot set these speed criteria?


If your instructor expected you to fail he wasn't doing his job properly as he should have made sure you were ready. Poor instructors have a habit of blaming the examiner to make up for their own failings.

I don't know how long ago you tool your test, but 10% + 2mph was generally accepted as ok back in the day by everyone including police and courts and if the rest of the drive was considered to be safe and you didn't do it throughout the test it would mostly have been let go. That would not be the case today.


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## Solocle (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> Meanwhile, I failed a test for driving too slowly and my instructor said after that he expected me to fail because that examiner had a reputation for failing people who didn't get up to the limit at every opportunity.
> 
> When I exceeded the limit in my retest (35 in a 30), that was only a minor fault! What idiot set these speed criteria?


I passed first time, with no faults. I did actually hit 35 in a 30, but it was momentary (accelerating away from some lights on an urban dual carriageway). Then I had to slow down naturally for some traffic ahead, so I don't think the examiner necessarily noticed.

Incidentally last time I remember speeding on that road was on my bike, overtaking a lorry


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

They can't win with the driving test. If you took a survey from the public about whether the test should be made more difficult (Which it has done by some margin over the last three decades) nearly everybody would say yes. 

Then when son or daughter fails because they didn't drive like an experienced driver people start complaining about fussy examiners and fixed pass rates.


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## classic33 (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> They can't win with the driving test. If you took a survey from the public about whether the test should be made more difficult (Which it has done by some margin over the last three decades) nearly everybody would say yes.
> 
> Then when son or daughter fails because they didn't drive like an experienced driver people start complaining about fussy examiners and fixed pass rates.


I don't drive, but I'd like to see instructors having a yearly test/retest in order to keep their instructor status. They are making money from it in the first place.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> I don't drive, but I'd like to see instructors having a yearly test/retest in order to keep their instructor status. They are making money from it in the first place.


Instructors take a test of Ability and Fitness at least every four years which means giving a lesson while a senior examiner from the DVSA sits in the back of the car. This is no picnic, believe me as they can be very critical and sub standard instructors lose their registration. 

The frequency of these "Check tests" as they are known depends on the grade an ADI gets from the examiner. Highest grade means another check in four years, below that anything from one month (Which means if you haven't seriously upped your game you are out on your ear) to two or three years.

I believe pass rates are now monitored as well, which they weren't in my time.


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## sheddy (24 Jan 2021)

Off topic, but how are motor students taught to overtake cyclists.

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre with a 2 meter space - or just blat past and hope for the best ?


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

sheddy said:


> Off topic, but how are motor students taught to overtake cyclists.
> 
> Mirror, signal, manoeuvre with a 2 meter space - or just blat past and hope for the best ?


I used to teach mine to blast through on the inside with an inch to spare while screaming abuse through the window.

For a serious answer, look in the Highway Code. That's what instructors teach.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> If your instructor expected you to fail he wasn't doing his job properly as he should have made sure you were ready. Poor instructors have a habit of blaming the examiner to make up for their own failings.


That instructor was excellent - believe me, I went through a few! He was a former examiner himself. He expected me to pass until he saw who the examiner assigned was.

It was a fair few years ago, but I still hear of more being failed for "not making progress" than for speeding. The criteria is farked.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> For a serious answer, look in the Highway Code. That's what instructors teach.


So, passing without fully changing lane, less than 2m clearance?


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## Smokin Joe (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> So, passing without fully changing lane, less than 2m clearance?
> View attachment 570497


I don't see L plates or an instructor in that car.


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## classic33 (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> So, passing without fully changing lane, less than 2m clearance?
> View attachment 570497


Don't see many giving another car that much room when overtaking.


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## mjr (24 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I don't see L plates or an instructor in that car.


But it is what is in the Highway Code.


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## SGG on a bike (24 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> So, passing without fully changing lane, less than 2m clearance?
> View attachment 570497


I call fake photo... An Audi giving more than 6 inches overtaking clearance AND indicating.


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## FishFright (24 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't see many giving another car that much room when overtaking.



Get yourself a recumbent trike and every ride is like that , bar BMW drivers ofc.


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## classic33 (24 Jan 2021)

FishFright said:


> Get yourself a recumbent trike and every ride is like that , bar BMW drivers ofc.


I've a recumbent quad, and still get closer passes than that.


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## mustang1 (25 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> Don't you just plug it in when you get home and remote control the charging?


What's remote control charging?


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## BoldonLad (25 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> They can't win with the driving test. If you took a survey from the public about whether the test should be made more difficult (Which it has done by some margin over the last three decades) nearly everybody would say yes.
> 
> Then when son or daughter fails because they didn't drive like an experienced driver people start complaining about fussy examiners and fixed pass rates.



I would agree that the test has become more demanding. I took (and passed) my test in a car, in 1965. Then, many years later, age 65 (2012) I decided to take a motorcycle test (long story). It was much more difficult with both theory and practical, and a section on navigating. Much to my surprise, on the day, I passed.


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## SpokeyDokey (25 Jan 2021)

*Mod note:*

Morning all and what a cold morning it is!

Can we please get back on topic for the benefit of members who wish to discuss the topic as per the thread title.

Many thanks.


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## rivers (25 Jan 2021)

I went out for a spin on Saturday and saw loads of people out and about on their bikes. Not just roadies, but several families and people on everything from road bikes to hybrids and mountain bikes. Let's face it, weather has been atrocious recently. Saturday was the first nice day in a while (and my first outside ride since Christmas eve), and people were out in droves. And everyone was sticking to the rules that I saw.


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## Maccajock (11 Mar 2021)

I'm a returnee.. Last cycled in the mid 80s on my 10 speed racer and bmx when I was a teenager living on the west coast of Scotland... Fast forward 30 odd years and after retiring from rugby I found myself at a sporting loss... Tried a number of different sports but to no avail.. I saw all the bods appear in LD1 and toyed with the idea of getting back on two wheels.. Bit the bullet late August and bagged a second hand boardman hybrid pro....knew within the first mile of riding out into the Severn valley that this is what I needed..so much so that I've entered my first ever cycling event on the 2nd of May and have spent the last 3 months doing a combo of in and out door rides getting as ride fit as possible.... Will I carry on cycling..course I will.


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## GuyBoden (12 Mar 2021)

Nice to see lots of people out in family groups and out with their partners. Most new cyclists I've seen have bought a mountain bike type machine. They seem to be the popular choice.


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## sheddy (12 Mar 2021)

Shame that PMTs in UK are everywhere bellyaching about new cycle lanes.


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## Dwn (12 Mar 2021)

I had assumed that the new cyclists had vanished, since it’s been pretty quiet since the turn of the year. However, lots of families were out cycling along the cycle paths last weekend. A good sign for the longer term, I think.


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## contadino (12 Mar 2021)

Several of the old codgers at my allotment site have signed up to do a triathlon. They're out every few days cycling and running (nobody's daft enough to swim when it's so cold, right?)

At least 2 of them picked up 2nd hand racers since November when the plan was hatched.


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## snorri (12 Mar 2021)

sheddy said:


> Shame that PMTs in UK are everywhere bellyaching about new cycle lanes.


PMTs ?
Google suggests Pre Menstrual Tension, but I think not.


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## Big John (12 Mar 2021)

I've got a road bike but the wife's got a menstrual cycle.


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