# Where does Froomes Power come from?!



## Zofo (17 Jul 2013)

Ok I love the guy but he has the spindliest legs I've ever seen on a professional racer and seems to spend all his time in what looks like the granny gear. Where does he get 430 Watts (approx.) from?!
Discuss.


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## anyuser (17 Jul 2013)

Marmite.


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## s7ephanie (17 Jul 2013)

spinach


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## SquareDaff (17 Jul 2013)

An electric motor built into the BB!


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## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

Duracell


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## Crackle (17 Jul 2013)

and Lucozade sport


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## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Epovaltine every night.


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## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2013)

Beer and fags.


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## MickyMickster (17 Jul 2013)

Natural born ability.


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## VamP (17 Jul 2013)

It's CGI. Chris Froome doesn't actually exist in real life.


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## rich p (17 Jul 2013)

Not another pro-race troll FFS


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## ufkacbln (17 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Beer and fags.




Wasn't that Wiggins?

There was talk about adding Nicotine as a banned substance and the fact that it showed a poor example to young aspiring athletes 

He is known to partake of the occasional fag


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## ianrauk (17 Jul 2013)

You guys....beer and fags...tsk tsk

I think it's because he is a bloody good cyclist myself...


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## David Greveson (17 Jul 2013)

Not sure where it comes from but I wouldn't mind a bit of it


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## subaqua (17 Jul 2013)

training, dedication, natural ability noticed and harnessed by a good management team.

NOT doping


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## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

you will need to ask Michelle, she only knows.


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## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> you will need to ask Michelle, she only knows.


If he had a good woman behind him, wouldn't he be on a tandem?


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## Herzog (17 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> you will need to ask Michelle, she only knows.


 

You don't mean this Michele do you?


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## laurence (17 Jul 2013)

no idea, maybe EDF.


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## ufkacbln (17 Jul 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> If he had a good woman behind him, wouldn't he be on a tandem?



Bleeding sexist!

Why not have the woman on front and Froome on the back as the engine and powerhouse


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## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Bleeding sexist!
> 
> Why not have the woman on front and Froome on the back as the engine and powerhouse


She's better at stoking.


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## albion (17 Jul 2013)

Who are these disrespectful tw*ts?


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## SWSteve (17 Jul 2013)

I've heard he has metal knees and hips, and these feature motors to make it easier to drive his legs.

Either that or this is his job and he is bloody good at it, and his management are even better at theirs


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## Hip Priest (17 Jul 2013)

Four things:

1) Natural ability
2) A complex personalised training plan designed to help him maximise said ability
3) Lots and lots of hard work and sacrifice
4) Mad arms


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## Strathlubnaig (17 Jul 2013)

Herzog said:


> You don't mean this Michele do you?


ha ha ha...I had to think about before I clicked on the link, nice one.


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## araapatlio (17 Jul 2013)

Zofo said:


> Ok I love the guy but he has the spindliest legs I've ever seen on a professional racer and seems to spend all his time in what looks like the granny gear. Where does he get 430 Watts (approx.) from?!
> Discuss.


 

Most likely from a greater preponderance of smaller, slow twitch muscle fibres, as compared to bulkier, fast twitch fibres. The composition is natural and genetic, but I believe training can also help, making fast twitch muscles behave like slow-twitch fibres.


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## T4tomo (17 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Beer and fags.


Nah its chips and gravy


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## araapatlio (17 Jul 2013)

T4tomo said:


> Nah its chips and gravy


 

As a Northerner living down South, let me just say...


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## T4tomo (17 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> As a Northerner living down South, let me just say...


Marginal gains, Brailsford has them flown in especially wherever they are in Europe, what with them being a Kenyan speciality and all that.

I've been exiled down south for 25 years, curry sauce is about as good as you can get, and no-ones even heard of scraps down here.


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## Davidc (17 Jul 2013)

Nah - pie and chips

(Having Getafix as my avatar I had to refrain from the obvious!)


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## themosquitoking (17 Jul 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Bleeding sexist!
> 
> Why not have the woman on front and Froome on the back as the engine and powerhouse


 
Put him wherever he'll be in charge of the gears and brakes and maybe steering.


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## themosquitoking (17 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> As a Northerner living down South, let me just say...


 
As a southerner can i just say. Gravy on chips is an abomination against any deity living or dead.


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## themosquitoking (17 Jul 2013)

T4tomo said:


> Marginal gains, Brailsford has them flown in especially wherever they are in Europe, what with them being a Kenyan speciality and all that.
> 
> I've been exiled down south for 25 years, curry sauce is about as good as you can get, and no-ones even heard of scraps down here.


 
We feed scraps to the dog.


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## raindog (18 Jul 2013)

laurence said:


> no idea, maybe EDF.



like the legend of the Stones using EDF to record Exile?


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## Andrew_Culture (18 Jul 2013)

Are you the same guy who calls me several times a week and asks who our energy supplier is?


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## ufkacbln (18 Jul 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Are you the same guy who calls me several times a week and asks who our energy supplier is?



My wife simply replies:

"The Lord provides all"

Seems to cut the conversation short every time


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## Ciar (18 Jul 2013)

T4tomo said:


> Marginal gains, Brailsford has them flown in especially wherever they are in Europe, what with them being a Kenyan speciality and all that.
> 
> I've been exiled down south for 25 years, curry sauce is about as good as you can get, and no-ones even heard of scraps down here.


 
scraps as in left over from the chip fryer? if so me and my mates used to pop into the chippy where we grew up and get them at the end of the night, but we called them something else.


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## Herzog (18 Jul 2013)

Ciar said:


> scraps as in left over from the chip fryer? if so me and my mates used to pop into the chippy where we grew up and get them at the end of the night, but we called them something else.


 
Best bits! (I'm from Northumberland...not Switzerland). We used to call them batter, as scraps was viewed as being southern (i.e., Newcastle ).


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## ufkacbln (18 Jul 2013)

H


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## Ben M (18 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> ... slow twitch muscle fibres, as compared to bulkier, fast twitch fibres. The composition is natural and genetic, but I believe training can also help, making fast twitch muscles behave like slow-twitch fibres.


 
I have yet to read any research to support claims like this, but would be very interested to if you know of any?


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## Hont (18 Jul 2013)

I don't think his legs are that thin. His thighs are more muscular than some.

His arms on the other hand...


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## subaqua (18 Jul 2013)

Ciar said:


> scraps as in left over from the chip fryer? if so me and my mates used to pop into the chippy where we grew up and get them at the end of the night, but we called them something else.


 fish bits is wot we called em


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## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Ben M said:


> I have yet to read any research to support claims like this, but would be very interested to if you know of any?


 

I don't know of any research, but I remember reading a while ago whilst researching fast/slow twitch muscles for my karate training, that whilst fast/slow ratio is genetically set, you can train your fast twitch fibres from FG to FOG, which are more like slow-twitch - or at least some people believe that they can, this could very well be wrong.

Please don't take my word for it, I'm a political and educational theorist, not a biologist.


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## Cyclopathic (18 Jul 2013)

It's his alien dna. When I look at him on the bike I am convinced he is not all human. He just looks so damned wierd.


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## Zofo (19 Jul 2013)

Cyclopathic said:


> It's his alien dna. When I look at him on the bike I am convinced he is not all human. He just looks so damned wierd.


 
I agree, especially with his elbows sticking out so much. And why does he spend so much time looking at the ground ?! Even Carlton Kirby ( Eurosport) has commented on it a couple of times.


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## Rob3rt (19 Jul 2013)

Zofo said:


> I agree, especially with his elbows sticking out so much. *And why does he spend so much time looking at the ground ?*!


 

Because he is hurting!

ITV4's commentators claim it is aerodynamic, lol!


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## araapatlio (19 Jul 2013)

Zofo said:


> I agree, especially with his elbows sticking out so much.


 

He does have a certain Praying Mantis like quality...


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## ColinJ (19 Jul 2013)

What I want to know is where he is hiding the extra stone or so! According to everything I can find on t'interweb, he supposedly weighs about 11 stone, but he looks to me like he weighs 9.5-10 stone at most.


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## Dave Davenport (19 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> What I want to know is where he is hiding the extra stone or so! According to everything I can find on t'interweb, he supposedly weighs about 11 stone, but he looks to me like he weighs 9.5-10 stone at most.


 
I thought that.


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## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

I know now: It's sprouts, that's why everyone behind him is pulling a face.


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## araapatlio (19 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> What I want to know is where he is hiding the extra stone or so! According to everything I can find on t'interweb, he supposedly weighs about 11 stone, but he looks to me like he weighs 9.5-10 stone at most.


 

He does look very slight, particularly his upper body, but I guess that he is mostly lean muscle which weighs heavier than fat and he is quite tall too.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> He does look very slight, particularly his upper body, but I guess that he is mostly *lean muscle **which weighs heavier than fat and he is quite tall too.*


**which has a higher density than fat and thus takes up less space


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## snailracer (19 Jul 2013)

^^^ physics Nazi


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## Noodley (19 Jul 2013)

ColinJ said:


> What I want to know is where he is hiding the extra stone or so! According to everything I can find on t'interweb, he supposedly weighs about 11 stone, but he looks to me like he weighs 9.5-10 stone at most.


 
How heavy do I look to you?


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## araapatlio (19 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> **which has a higher density than fat and thus takes up less space


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## ColinJ (19 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> He does look very slight, particularly his upper body, but I guess that he is mostly lean muscle which weighs heavier than fat and he is quite tall too.


He is exactly the same height as me and I am a bigger build. When I finished university I weighed only 10 st 10 lbs but was not as skinny-looking as him! 



Noodley said:


> How heavy do I look to you?


Show us a recent photograph, remind us how tall you are and we can have a guess!


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## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2013)

He seems to have a higher cadence, I guess he spins quick and relies on CV.


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## NickM (21 Jul 2013)

The muscle that matters most in aerobic activities is the heart. His makes ours look small, and contracts with considerably more force than ours can muster. The resultant high stroke volume gives him a correspondingly high cardiac output per unit time - his heart, on demand, can pump an awful lot of blood. This allows him to transport more oxygen to the working muscle and transport more waste products of metabolism away from it, maintaining muscle pH in the range which permits optimally forceful fibre contraction. His muscle fibre make-up is biased towards aerobic rather than anaerobic (sprint) activity.

And he has trained optimally to exploit this genetically-endowed potential.


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## Zofo (21 Jul 2013)

NickM said:


> The muscle that matters most in aerobic activities is the heart. His makes ours look small, and contracts with considerably more force than ours can muster. The resultant high stroke volume gives him a correspondingly high cardiac output per unit time - his heart, on demand, can pump an awful lot of blood. This allows him to transport more oxygen to the working muscle and transport more waste products of metabolism away from it, maintaining muscle pH in the range which permits optimally forceful fibre contraction. His muscle fibre make-up is biased towards aerobic rather than anaerobic (sprint) activity.
> 
> And he has trained optimally to exploit this genetically-endowed potential.


 
You sound like you have inside info NickM?--Sky are very guarded about releasing supporting data.


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## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2013)

Not really, there's nothing secret about this, this is basically how all elite endurance athletes body's work, rowers, cyclists etc basically anyone putting out high watts for an extended period of time (aerobic) is relying on an CV (cardiovascular) system that is far beyond the average person.

Olympic sprinters to give the opposite example are using pure anaerobic for a short time.


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## PK99 (21 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> As a southerner can i just say. Gravy on chips is an abomination against any deity living or dead.


 

Philistine!


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## PK99 (21 Jul 2013)

Zofo said:


> I agree, especially with his elbows sticking out so much. *And why does he spend so much time looking at the ground* ?! Even Carlton Kirby ( Eurosport) has commented on it a couple of times.


 
Marginally lower wind resistance - according to the ITV4 commentators - ditto seated, consistent position when climbing. Aero dynamics don't make much different to mortals like us when climbing but at the speeds they are going the marginal differences can be the key difference.


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## oldroadman (21 Jul 2013)

PK99 said:


> Marginally lower wind resistance - according to the ITV4 commentators - ditto seated, consistent position when climbing. Aero dynamics don't make much different to mortals like us when climbing but at the speeds they are going the marginal differences can be the key difference.


They do talk complete sphreoids at times. How much resistance at climbing speed...?
He has simply got a stunningly efficient and high capacity cardio-vascular system. Pulse at rest will be probably in the 30's or low 40's, lung capacity at least 5 litres, altitude work improves natural red cell count. Combine talent and training, throw in iron hard mentality, you have a quality rider.
Compare, old bloke me, pulse high 40's at rest, lungs still work OK but only 3.8/4 litres now, heamatocrit natural level 47 (the UCI "upper safe limit" is 50, when you get stopped racing for 14 days for "health reasons"). So CF will be well in advance of average humans. Plus he has a high cadence and ability to produce a superb change of speed in the mountains. My guess would be he looks down to check power output on the meter, keeping within threshold until very late on a stage when you can go into the red and not have to worry about recovery. That's for the rollers post race.
Mind he is not elegant on the bike, looks like a demented spider at times! Compare Quintana, very stylish, lovely pedal stroke, terrific power, and great poker face for a young rider.


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## Andy_R (21 Jul 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> As a southerner can i just say. Gravy on chips is an abomination against any deity living or dead.


As a northerner, can I just say that as a southerner you know nothing about chips, gravy on chips, or abominable deities. Go and wave your heresy at the good folks of BikeRadar

Oh, and BTW, Froome has arms like Mr Tickle


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## oldroadman (22 Jul 2013)

Andy_R said:


> As a northerner, can I just say that as a southerner you know nothing about chips, gravy on chips, or abominable deities. Go and wave your heresy at the good folks of BikeRadar
> 
> Oh, and BTW, Froome has arms like Mr Tickle


 
The only thing to have on chips (when allowed for about 10 minutes off season!) is mayonnaise. The only place where chips are best is Belgium. Anything and anywhere alse is simply not at the same standard.


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## oldroadman (22 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2559903, member: 259"]Lots of Belgians eat chips with piccalilli. I don't know what that's all about! [/quote]
They can get treatment....though I have tried that and it's not too bad.  When you stop...


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Not really, there's nothing secret about this, this is basically how all elite endurance athletes body's work, rowers, cyclists etc basically anyone putting out high watts for an extended period of time (aerobic) is relying on an CV (cardiovascular) system that is far beyond the average person.
> 
> Olympic sprinters to give the opposite example are using pure anaerobic for a short time.


 

The question is where does Froome's power - over and above the rest - come from?
He must have an even greater tendency towards anaerobic than most and the fact that he was born and lived at altitude helps.


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## Rob3rt (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> The question is where does Froome's power - over and above the rest - come from?
> *He must have an even greater tendency towards anaerobic* than most and the fact that he was born and lived at altitude helps.


 
?


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> ?


 

The composition of your muscle fibres, ratio between slow / fast twitch is genetically determined.


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## Rob3rt (22 Jul 2013)

and...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> The question is where does Froome's power - over and above the rest - come from?


Training perhaps?



> He must have an even greater tendency towards anaerobic than most and the fact that he was born and lived at altitude helps.


You have no way of knowing this. Why would you assume it's the case anyway?



araapatlio said:


> The composition of your muscle fibres, ratio between slow / fast twitch is genetically determined.


Most of us know the basics. How do you know enough about Chris Froome to determine what his genetic balance is?


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Training perhaps?
> 
> You have no way of knowing this. Why would you assume it's the case anyway?
> 
> Most of us know the basics. How do you know enough about Chris Froome to determine what his genetic balance is?


 

I am assuming this as I doubt he is training in such a significantly harder, different or better manner than his competitors to be able to blitz attack them up a mountain with an incredible display of power. I can only conclude that it is a natural advantage, which he has fully made the most of with his training and dedication.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I am assuming this as I doubt he is training in such a significantly harder, different or better manner than his competitors to be able to blitz attack them up a mountain with an incredible display of power. I can only conclude that it is a natural advantage, which he has fully made the most of with his training and dedication.


So you're saying his form isn't the result of training,but the result of what you assume is higher type2 % of fibre, and training?

I'm lost as to what exactly you are basing this all on.


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> So you're saying his form isn't the result of training,but the result of what you assume is higher type2 % of fibre, and training?


 

I said that his training has made the most of a natural advantage, that it is a combination of both of these factors, that it is not simply the result of training - that not everyone could do what he has done, if only they trained long enough, hard enough and smart enough. I am assuming that he has a genetic advantage in terms of his muscle composition, as everyone else on the Tour has trained just as hard as he has, yet he still has that substantial advantage. Training is vital, but it is not everything, some people's bodies are simply better equipped for this kind of competition than others and I am surmising that he has a particularly high slow:high twitch ratio.


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

Hont said:


> I don't think his legs are that thin. His thighs are more muscular than some.


 
I was thinking exactly the same thing while watching him yesterday. It's just that he's so tall, his legs look very stretched out. Also, he doesn't have a gram of fat on his legs or bum. He also has very impressive glutes (worded carefully in a futile attempt to hide the fact I was looking closely at another man's arse).

Great self-discipline about what he allows in his body too - he had to really force himself to take a sip from that glass of champagne yesterday, just for the benefit of the camera, and seemed keen to get rid of it asap. And I'm pretty sure he didn't inhale that cigar.


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2559903, member: 259"]Lots of Belgians eat chips with piccalilli. I don't know what that's all about! [/quote]

Ooh, I've never tried that but it sounds good to me. Yum!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I said that his training has made the most of a natural advantage, that it is a combination of both of these factors, that it is not simply the result of training


Yeah that's how training works. It's why there are people who can climb hills all day long, and those who can do silly speeds for 200m at the end of a race.



> that not everyone could do what he has done


Take away the crowds,the team support, the cameras and the monetary reward. What he did ultimately was ride a bike up some hills, the same hills are accessible to anyone to ride up.



> I am assuming that he has a genetic advantage in terms of his muscle composition, as everyone else on the Tour has trained just as hard as he has, yet he still has that substantial advantage.


Again, you don't know how hard everyone else trained in comparison(nor relatively) - as you don't know precisely how each of the riders trained.



> Training is vital, but it is not everything, some people's bodies are simply better equipped for this kind of competition than others and I am surmising that he has a particularly high slow:high twitch ratio.


The balance is pretty clear. Still not sure why you think this "He must have an even greater tendency towards anaerobic"


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

PK99 said:


> Marginally lower wind resistance - according to the ITV4 commentators - ditto seated, consistent position when climbing. Aero dynamics don't make much different to mortals like us when climbing but at the speeds they are going the marginal differences can be the key difference.


 
And there's me thinking he was just looking at his power meter!


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I don't know of any research, but I remember reading a while ago...


 
You'd have been wise to stop there.

No offence meant, but these discussions tend to get a bit tiresome when they descend into armchair experts flinging bits of half-understood and/or half-remembered pseudo-science at each other. I'm certainly not suggesting you're the only culprit though.


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yeah that's how training works. It's why there are people who can climb hills all day long, and those who can do silly speeds for 200m at the end of a race.
> 
> Take away the crowds,the team support, the cameras and the monetary reward. What he did ultimately was ride a bike up some hills, the same hills are accessible to anyone to ride up.


 
The question was about his power relative to the other riders. So yes, anyone could ride up those hills, but not at those speeds or with the acceleration that Froome produced, pulling away from a highly talented field. Mark Cavendish is a top rider who trains incredibly hard, but his body type is different and he is more suited to sprints. I could train all my life for the 100m, but I would never be any good at it, because my body is suited far more to long-distance, endurance events.



> Again, you don't know how hard everyone else trained in comparison(nor relatively) - as you don't know precisely how each of the riders trained.
> 
> The balance is pretty clear. Still not sure why you think this "He must have an even greater tendency towards anaerobic"


 

FFS. I think you need to check the definition of the word "assumption" - it means a belief, held without proof. I stated on numerous occasions it was an assumption. At no point did I suggest this was the definitive opinion on Chris Froome or his muscle composition, it was just my opinion. I'd have thought my train of though was abundantly clear, but if not, let me try one last time:

I assume all riders are training just as hard for the biggest race in the world, Chris Froome has shown a substantial advantage over the others, ergo, I assume that there is something particular about his body that enables him to do that - such as living at altitude or having a genetic advantage in terms of his muscle composition. 

I hope that satisfies your curiosity, because I'm done with this.


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## araapatlio (22 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> You'd have been wise to stop there.
> 
> No offence meant, but these discussions tend to get a bit tiresome when they descend into armchair experts flinging bits of half-understood and/or half-remembered pseudo-science at each other. I'm certainly not suggesting you're the only culprit though.


 

I never pretended to be an expert, nor do I have particularly intimate knowledge of Chris Froome's legs  The question was asked and that is my two pennies worth, that is all.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I'm done with this.


About time


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I never pretended to be an expert, nor do I have particularly intimate knowledge of Chris Froome's legs


 
None the less, your personal observations on Froome's legs may well be a more interesting contribution to the discussion. I mean this as encouragement.


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## Zofo (24 Jul 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Mind he is not elegant on the bike, looks like a demented spider at times! Compare Quintana, very stylish, lovely pedal stroke, terrific power, and great poker face for a young rider.


 
I agree, Quintana never gives anything away or looks at all like he's on the limit. Very cool definitely my type of rider, would be great to see him get out the saddle a bit more-although he probably doesn't need to-I like to see climbers dance up the road.


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