# Turbo trainers - is it about the miles or the effort?



## Stevec047 (26 Nov 2016)

This is my first winter and after a great 1st season of cycling the last thing I want is to loose all the hard work I have put it. So the question I have is as follows:

Do you use your turbo trainer for 5 -15 min HIT sessions or distance riding of 20+ miles?

Which is better for keeping the fitness up and being in a position to get out on the bike and continue my success?


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## smutchin (26 Nov 2016)

Training rides should never be measured in miles, especially not on a stationary bike.


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## Stevec047 (26 Nov 2016)

So I just need to stop feeling dispondent about 4 or 5 miles on the bike and think of it as a gym work out and sweat my butt off?

I am very tempted to try one of the virtual trainer options but I just don't feel I have the stamina or fitness to make the most of the software currently.


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## smutchin (26 Nov 2016)

Stevec047 said:


> So I just need to stop feeling dispondent about 4 or 5 miles on the bike and think of it as a gym work out and sweat my butt off?



Yeah, think of it as a gym workout.

Distance is only really relevant as a goal in itself - eg if you're doing an audax or sportive. If your target is to get fit (perhaps in order to be able to complete a 100 mile sportive or 200km audax), there are much more useful ways to measure your efforts - eg how long you've spent in a particular HR zone. Miles are totally irrelevant as a training metric.

HIIT is one option, and a turbo trainer is particularly good for that kind of thing, but you can also do endurance sessions - as long as you have the willpower to keep going for long periods with just a view of the garage wall to keep you motivated... The point is not to sit on the trainer and just pedal for a certain amount of time until you achieve some notional distance but to structure your workout using power or heart rate (or just perceived effort) to gauge how much work you've done.



> I am very tempted to try one of the virtual trainer options but I just don't feel I have the stamina or fitness to make the most of the software currently.



If your fitness improves from using a smart trainer then you are making the most of it. That's what they're for, just like any other trainer. The only difference is that using a smart trainer with an app like Zwift is supposed to make indoor training more fun, so in theory you will be more motivated to keep up your efforts and therefore more likely to see beneficial results.


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## smutchin (26 Nov 2016)

By the way, do keep at it - that's the most important thing. Keep working your arse off in your structured training sessions (which aren't meant to be fun - they're work), then it won't be long before you start to find that just going out for a 5 mile bike ride is actually a rather enjoyable way to spend your time. 

And it won't be long after that before you start thinking about those 100 mile sportives...


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## HLaB (26 Nov 2016)

Its definitely power/ intensity. For instance my old magnetic turbo had me pootling along at a theoretical 25mph plus whereas my newer fluid trainer has me pushing for around 15mph; whilst I'd travel theoretically further on the magnetic trainer I get a better work out on the newer trainer and it seems like I'm a stronger cyclist now.

Edit: Oh and I forgot to say I have a cheap power meter fitted to my pedal spindles now and don't even record the theoretical and useless speed/distance data, just power, HR and cadence.


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## Ben Reeve (26 Nov 2016)

They are a pain. My is like into Zwift so at least some feedback.

It's just not the same as cycling on a road. You are going all the time with no stopping for junctions, coasting down hills etc etc.

I might do half an hour of just spinning the legs or put the effort in to really smashing through an intervals sessions.

I am certainly not going to grind out a 4hr 100km ride though!


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## screenman (26 Nov 2016)

I admire my son who would put in 3 to 4 hours on the turbo followed by another 2 hours on the running machine.


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## Ben Reeve (26 Nov 2016)

screenman said:


> I admire my son who would put in 3 to 4 hours on the turbo followed by another 2 hours on the running machine.


Now that is dedication!


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## Venod (26 Nov 2016)

A smart trainer helps relieve the mind numingness of turbo work you can do workouts or ride against others with Zwift etc, I completed a local route on bkool and the segment times are remarkably close to my real world times, I no longer dread the rainy day. A lad in the club did 100 mile on his, that I would dread.


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## screenman (26 Nov 2016)

Ben Reeve said:


> Now that is dedication!



It is part of what you have to do if you want a decent iron man time.


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## Milkfloat (26 Nov 2016)

Stevec047 said:


> Do you use your turbo trainer for 5 -15 min HIT sessions or distance riding of 20+ miles?



I would argue that a HIIT session should last a lot longer than 15 minutes if you factor in warm up and warm down. You could easily do a theoretical 20m DURING a HIIT session.


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## Stevec047 (26 Nov 2016)

Thanks for all the replies. I think it's a case of getting my head around the whole training and not riding thing.

Fitness has been the biggest issue with the cycling this season but bearing in mind I started out last october at a unsavoury 18 stone and very unfit to a now sub 15 stone and able to actually run around with the boys and not be huffing and puffing it's now something I really want to build on in the hope that it will allow me to be stronger in the saddle for 2017.

I have big plans for next year having just tipped over the 1000mile mark this year I want to double this and also include a number of 50 and possible 75/100 mile events as well as the regular 35/45 weekend rides.


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## Stevec047 (26 Nov 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I would argue that a HIIT session should last a lot longer than 15 minutes if you factor in warm up and warm down. You could easily do a theoretical 20m DURING a HIIT session.


I seem to be struggling with the longer harder HIIT sessions I tried a 25min obe last weekend and lasted about 15mins before crashing and burning big time.

Out on the road I average 5 miles per 22 mins so still have a long way to go until I can reduce the 5min mile mark down and up my average speed from around 11/12mph to 15mph which is my aim next year.


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## Alan O (26 Nov 2016)

Ben Reeve said:


> You are going all the time with no stopping for junctions, coasting down hills etc etc.


That's about the first thing I realised with my new one - 30 minutes on the turbo is a good bit more effort than the same on the road.


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## Ben Reeve (26 Nov 2016)

Alan O said:


> That's about the first thing I realised with my new one - 30 minutes on the turbo is a good bit more effort than the same on the road.


Certainly is. I only have to look at my heart rate output for that! Oh, and the fact I can barely stand for 10 minutes afterwards!!!!


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## S-Express (26 Nov 2016)

Stevec047 said:


> I seem to be struggling with the longer harder HIIT sessions I tried a 25min obe last weekend and lasted about 15mins before crashing and burning big time.



Can you describe what your 'HIIT' session actually looks like? If you are not completing the session, then the target effort level and/or duration is simply too hard for you - there is no other explanation. So you either need to reduce the intensity, or the interval length, or both. But knowing what it looks like would be useful.


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## uclown2002 (26 Nov 2016)

Stevec047 said:


> So I just need to stop feeling dispondent about 4 or 5 miles on the bike and think of it as a gym work out and sweat my butt off?
> 
> I am very tempted to try one of the virtual trainer options but *I just don't feel I have the stamina or fitness* to make the most of the software currently.


 


Stevec047 said:


> I seem to be struggling with the longer harder HIIT sessions I tried a 25min obe last weekend and lasted about 15mins before crashing and burning big time.
> 
> *Out on the road I average 5 miles per 22 mins* so still have a long way to go until I can reduce the 5min mile mark down and up my average speed from around 11/12mph to 15mph which is my aim next year.


 
I'd be clocking up the miles/time in the saddle rather than focusing on HIIT.


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## JtB (27 Nov 2016)

I have a fluid turbo trainer with a defined power curve and no resistance control for cheating. I work out to a structured video that lasts 45 minutes, and while I have an HR monitor I never use it. Instead I track distance and cadence and that is sufficient for me to set goals and track progress. Throughout the winter I do 3 to 4 such workouts per week and I lose about 1kg of sweat during a single workout. I have now completed 2 winters on the turbo trainer and I'm starting my 3rd winter.


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## S-Express (27 Nov 2016)

JtB said:


> Instead I track distance and cadence and that is sufficient for me to set goals and track progress


What are your cadence goals?


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2016)

JtB said:


> I have a fluid turbo trainer with a defined power curve and no resistance control for cheating. I work out to a structured video that lasts 45 minutes, and while I have an HR monitor I never use it. Instead I track distance and cadence and that is sufficient for me to set goals and track progress. Throughout the winter I do 3 to 4 such workouts per week and I lose about 1kg of sweat during a single workout. I have now completed 2 winters on the turbo trainer and I'm starting my 3rd winter.


My turbo session is 45 mins as well to a you tube video , i only have a basic magnetic turbo with resistance but like you im a pool of sweat even though im in a shed in just shorts and shirt this weather .


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

My turbo sessions vary depending on what I want to achieve, I would not want at my age every session to be a max effort. Nor would I want every session the same, as the need to beat your last distance can often destroy either your mind or the session.


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## JtB (27 Nov 2016)

S-Express said:


> What are your cadence goals?


My target cadence range just allows me to select an appropriate gear, so it's not really a performance goal as such.



screenman said:


> My turbo sessions vary depending on what I want to achieve, I would not want at my age every session to be a max effort. Nor would I want every session the same, as the need to beat your last distance can often destroy either your mind or the session.


A very good point, but I still need to track my workouts otherwise I have nothing to show for them and that doesn't help with my motivation.

My normal average speed over a 45 minute workout is between 17.5 to 18 mph. However, since I've been off the bike for 3 months with a prolapsed disc and I've only just started back on the turbo trainer then I can currently only manage about 15 minutes at an average of 16 mph. I'm not going to try and increase my performance with every workout, but at least I have a rough idea of where I want to be next spring in readiness for getting back out on the road.


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

You can test yourself easily, however I suggest not making every session a test. I used to find the turbo great for a gently hour the day after a hard ride for instance.

The speeds have no relevance to road speed, however if you calibrate your turbo before each test session then they can make the test more accurate.


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## JtB (27 Nov 2016)

screenman said:


> The speeds have no relevance to road speed, however if you calibrate your turbo before each test session then they can make the test more accurate.


 Agreed, my speeds are not intended to provide an absolute measure of what my performance would be if I were on the road, but rather a relative measure from one workout to another. One of the reasons why I went for a fluid trainer with no resistance control was so that it had the same defined power curve for each workout and so I could easily track my progress.


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

You can track your progress, but to do it well needs the turbo calibrating. The important thing in mind my is to do what you are doing, be active not inactive and keep smiling.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Nov 2016)

It's alllll about time and effort


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2016)

Turbo day today mrs ck didnt surface till late again so the club run had already left,sunday dinner so by the time im ready to ride to be dark.


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

cyberknight said:


> Turbo day today mrs ck didnt surface till late again so the club run had already left,sunday dinner so by the time im ready to ride to be dark.



This laying in thing may be catching, I did not here the wife going around the house with the vacuum on until 5.30 this morning.


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2016)

screenman said:


> This laying in thing may be catching, I did not here the wife going around the house with the vacuum on until 5.30 this morning.


9.30 and shes still in farking bed.


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

cyberknight said:


> 9.30 and shes still in farking bed.



If that was the kids when they were at home it would have been a glass of cold water over the head, you are just to nice to her. Maybe she did not know you wanted to go out.


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2016)

screenman said:


> If that was the kids when they were at home it would have been a glass of cold water over the head, you are just to nice to her. Maybe she did not know you wanted to go out.


Yes she did , its her only "lie in " all week according to her, ongoing drama i have posted about before , i have only been on night shift all week doing 11 hour shifts and took kids swimming yesterday , she went bingo and did 3 hours part time .


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## smutchin (27 Nov 2016)

cyberknight said:


> took kids swimming yesterday



Ah! I was wondering why you had to wait for your wife to get out of bed before you could go riding. Kids explains it. I'm lucky mine is now old enough to look after himself, so I usually leave my wife snoring away when I set off for my Sunday ride.


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