# A bargain ebike



## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

The term bargain is over-used, but this Scott is excellent value for money at £1,600.

Decent spec trekking bike with the latest 2020 model year Bosch CX motor, which is the most powerful one.

It also has the bigger 500wh Powertube integrated battery.

The rest of the bike is not too shabby, 11 speed SRAM, Shimano brakes and hubs rather than no-name cheapies, a KMC chain, and Schwalbe ebike rated tyres.

Some Chinese no-brand hub drive bikes are more than £1,000, and they are usually one size fits all.

Tredz is saying they have the Scott in small, medium, and large.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Scott-Sub-Sport-eRide-SE-2019-Electric-Hybrid-Bike_223237.htm


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## Smudge (28 Dec 2019)

That is a good deal.
I've seen a few good deals in the last few days on ebikes. Pendleton ebike at Halfords for £595 and Bikester had the Cube Acid Hybrid One 400 for £1,055 on Boxing Day.


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

Halfords is worth a look for cheaper ebikes.

The Apollo Phaze is only £489.

Basic front hub drive and small battery, but I've seen worse quality bikes.

It's not loaded down with what would be cheap and nasty kit so is probably quite light - for an ebike.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bi...llo-phaze-electric-mountain-bike-17-20-frames


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## samsbike (28 Dec 2019)

That Scott is awesome and all the kit you need - rack, lights, mudguards and fat tires.
If I didn’t have the Raleigh I would be tempted .


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## sheddy (28 Dec 2019)

Is that Pendleton any good ? 
We’ll be looking for a ladies step through next year.


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

sheddy said:


> Is that Pendleton any good ?
> We’ll be looking for a ladies step through next year.



The Somerby is a basic rear hub drive ebike, but the technology is well proven.

Its motor is actuated by a speed rather than a torque sensor which makes the ride not quite as intuitive as an ebike which also uses a torque sensor.

Smallish battery, so range won't be a lot more than 30 miles.

Plenty of similar quality ebikes for a hundred or two more.

If you want that style of bike, the Somerby is hard to beat.


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## midlife (28 Dec 2019)

Just out of sheer curiosity, what e bike looks the least like an e bike and more like a normal road bike.... If that makes sense


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

midlife said:


> Just out of sheer curiosity, what e bike looks the least like an e bike and more like a normal road bike.... If that makes sense



The Orbea Gain and several others that use a similar design.

Rear hub motor which is no bigger in diameter than the biggest gear on the cassette and a battery buried in the down tube.

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain-road/


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## midlife (28 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> The Orbea Gain and several others that use a similar design.
> 
> Rear hub motor which is no bigger in diameter than the biggest gear on the cassette and a battery buried in the down tube.
> 
> https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain-road/



Thanks, just curious


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## simon.r (28 Dec 2019)

Why do so many e-bikes come with short travel suspension forks? There’s bound to be a fairly significant weight penalty and extra cost.

The Scott in the OP is a good example. I struggle to see any real advantage of a 63mm travel fork (a claimed 63mm equates to an actual 50mm or so IME) when the bike runs a 700 x 50 tyre and is designed for road use.


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## Pale Rider (29 Dec 2019)

simon.r said:


> Why do so many e-bikes come with short travel suspension forks? There’s bound to be a fairly significant weight penalty and extra cost.
> 
> The Scott in the OP is a good example. I struggle to see any real advantage of a 63mm travel fork (a claimed 63mm equates to an actual 50mm or so IME) when the bike runs a 700 x 50 tyre and is designed for road use.



I suppose for the same reason flat bar hybrid/commuter push bikes have suspension forks - the average buyer thinks a suspension fork is superior to a rigid one.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2019)

simon.r said:


> Why do so many e-bikes come with short travel suspension forks? There’s bound to be a fairly significant weight penalty and extra cost.
> 
> The Scott in the OP is a good example. I struggle to see any real advantage of a 63mm travel fork (a claimed 63mm equates to an actual 50mm or so IME) when the bike runs a 700 x 50 tyre and is designed for road use.



You're correct, 50mm tyres negate the need for front suspension for a commuter bike.


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## confusedcyclist (30 Dec 2019)

Can concur. My Trek has solid carbon forks and 2.6" tyres and rides like a dream.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2019)

I've recommended this bike to my In-law. He lives in Sheffield up a stupid steep climb from the city centre. He has stopped riding because he can't face the climb each evening. An ebike like this should suit him for a 5 mile commute


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## Pale Rider (30 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I've recommended this bike to my In-law. He lives in Sheffield up a stupid steep climb from the city centre. He has stopped riding because he can't face the climb each evening. An ebike like this should suit him for a 5 mile commute



Since things have now got serious with money possibly changing hands, I ought to issue a word of caution.

The photo on the website is of a 2020 bike with the latest motor.

However, the bike may have the previous generation 2019 motor, which would explain its cheapness.

The previous motor - which I have - was bigger, heavier, and has some resistance while pedalling.

The difference is easy to spot because the previous motor has a small front ring, typically about 15 or 16 teeth - and is geared up inside, hence the resistance.

The latest motor has the same size front ring you would expect to see on an ordinary push bike.

Both motors have the same power, and both would do an excellent job of the proposed commute, assuming they would be ridden under power.

Another difference is the latest motor has anti-dongle software - the 15.5mph limit cannot be removed.

That might be a reason to go for the previous generation motor, not that I'm advocating brother-in-law runs an illegal ebike.

Arguably, it's hardly worth the bother of derestricting it for five miles because the elapsed time saved would be minimal.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Arguably, it's hardly worth the bother of derestricting it for five miles because the elapsed time saved would be minimal.



Its more to do with effort for the climb, if its got enough power for him to not struggle


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## Pale Rider (30 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Its more to do with effort for the climb, if its got enough power for him to not struggle



Either motor should have enough power, but Bosch motors are not balls of fire.

I expect the motor you have is more pokey.

He may find the climb requires a low gear, so he won't be climbing a great deal faster than on a push bike, just easier.

I've ridden with lots of CycleChat roadies.

Many of them can climb faster than me if they attack the gradient.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2019)

This is the one I'd suggest if he could afford it
https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-silence-eride-20-men-bike

28mph town bike


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## Pale Rider (30 Dec 2019)

I would be tempted by a full sus for the road ebike, having ridden a mate's Riese and Muller Delite.

It held the road and was more comfortable than any bike I've ever ridden.

Scott have one in their latest range.

https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-axis-eride-evo-bike?article=274850008


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## jowwy (30 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> This is the one I'd suggest if he could afford it
> https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-silence-eride-20-men-bike
> 
> 28mph town bike


It says upto 45kmh.....once purchased the UK software will be updated and all you will get is 25kmh or 15.6mph


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

jowwy said:


> It says upto 45kmh.....once purchased the UK software will be updated and all you will get is 25kmh or 15.6mph


I'd buy from country with speed unaltered. I have relatives in Europe and USA


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## Pale Rider (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I'd buy from country with speed unaltered. I have relatives in Europe and USA



Probably no need.

I expect any Scott dealer would order the Speed Pedelec version for you.

Buying and selling, in other words, possessing, the bike is not illegal.

What you cannot do is, realistically, is ride it anywhere legally unless it's registered as a light motorcycle.

It has to be private land to which the public has no access, which rules out all roads, cycle paths, and mountain bike trails.

A gated compound or field - with no footpaths or rights of way across it - would qualify, but few of us own such land.

Or if we do, it's too small to be of any use, such as a back garden.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Probably no need.
> 
> I expect any Scott dealer would order the Speed Pedelec version for you.
> 
> ...




Looking at the regulations, if you were to do it properly.

Ensure you have moped or better motorcycle license.

Aquire S(speed) Pedelec upto 28mph <1000 Watts continuous power

Comply with conformity regulations- Bike needs CE sticker with details of power/speed Not a problem with manufactured products

Register bike with DVLA L1E-A category

Get registration plate

Get insurance

Get moped quality helmet

There are companies that will do all registration for you(when buying their supplied bike).

Owner needs to sort insurance and helmet.

It would be interesting to see what prices come back for insurance

EDIT. This website describe the process, https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/buying-and-riding-an-s-pedelec-in-the-uk-1637

It about £200 approximately to get your Pedelec registered and insured, if you currently have moped or motorcycle license. 

If you have post 2001 driving license then a CBT license is required.


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## Pale Rider (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Looking at the regulations, if you were to do it properly.
> 
> Ensure you have moped or better motorcycle license.
> 
> ...



That appears to be the strength of it.

Someone elsewhere on the internet managed to do it, although it took him several months.

The resulting 'bicycle' had a rear registration plate.

Something of a dead loss because you then cannot use it on cycle paths/lanes or dedicated mountain bike trails.

Better off buying a petrol moped which would be faster and cheaper.


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## Smudge (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Looking at the regulations, if you were to do it properly.
> 
> Ensure you have moped or better motorcycle license.
> 
> ...



So go through all that, just to get an extra 12.5 mph on the motors cut off speed. Plus drastically reduced battery range. Plus you can only use it on the public highway and not legally use it on canal paths, cycle paths & tracks.
I wonder how many people here in the uk has bothered to actually do that.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Better off buying a petrol moped which would be faster and cheaper.



No, no, the idea is to eliminate pollution. 

I agree about speed, but 28mph is a fair lick for a push bike. 

Can these bikes push nearly 28 mph going up gradients ?


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> So go through all that, just to get an extra 12.5 mph on the motors cut off speed. Plus drastically reduced battery range. Plus you can only use it on the public highway and not legally use it on canal paths, cycle paths & tracks.
> I wonder how many people here in the uk has bothered to actually do that.



Very few I suspect. Only dedicated commuters with load and speed requirements.

That's why there is a thriving non conforming ebike community

The actual 12.5mph boost is significant, lifting speed to comfortably match town vehicle speeds. So holding centre line like motorcycles would be normal


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## Smudge (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> No, no, the idea is to eliminate pollution.
> 
> I agree about speed, but 28mph is a fair lick for a push bike.
> 
> Can these bikes push nearly 28 mph going up gradients ?



Hill climbing is all about how much torque the motor has, not the motor cut off speed.


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## Smudge (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Very few I suspect. Only dedicated commuters with load and speed requirements.
> 
> That's why there is a *thriving non conforming* ebike community
> 
> The actual 12.5mph boost is significant, lifting speed to comfortably match town vehicle speeds. So holding centre line like motorcycles would be normal



Well thats another way of saying illegal i suppose.


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## Pale Rider (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> No, no, the idea is to eliminate pollution.
> 
> I agree about speed, but 28mph is a fair lick for a push bike.
> 
> Can these bikes push nearly 28 mph going up gradients ?



I've ridden a Speed Pedelec and the experience is a little under whelming.

The motor is no more powerful, the only difference is the cut off speed.

Ebike motors are built for torque, not speed, so the assistance over 15.5mph is relatively small.

It does make a difference, but I doubt many cyclists would have the power to cruise on one at 25mph on the flat.

No extra speed to be had on climbs, unless you could do the climb at more than 15.5mph on a legal ebike.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> I've ridden a Speed Pedelec and the experience is a little under whelming.
> 
> The motor is no more powerful, the only difference is the cut off speed.
> 
> ...



That's is what I wanted to know, no absolute benefit.

Ive seen 1500W ebike s and they will hit 30mph on the flat with little effort from rider


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## Pale Rider (31 Dec 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> That's is what I wanted to know, no absolute benefit.
> 
> Ive seen 1500W ebike s and they will hit 30mph on the flat with little effort from rider



The high watt large 'pancake' direct drive motors will go quick on the flat, once they are wound up.

They are surprisingly useless at climbing, leading some owners to bin them in favour of a close to legal geared hub motor, or a crank kit like you have.

It seems you can either have torque or speed, but you cannot have both.


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## samsbike (31 Dec 2019)

This is what I am curious about. I do about 16-17moh in the flat. If the bike was not restricted (or say restricted to 20mph) - would I actually be getting more assistance and therefore a slightly higher speed?


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

samsbike said:


> This is what I am curious about. I do about 16-17moh in the flat. If the bike was not restricted (or say restricted to 20mph) - would I actually be getting more assistance and therefore a slightly higher speed?



If you have inclines or encounter a stiif headwind, then yes you would probably be quicker. If you're 10% quicker uphill then you will be quicker.

My wife's ebike I have to draft her, just to stay with her on a 1/2 mile gradual climb. The speed we are talking about is around 14 mph, add in a headwind and I cant sustain her comfortable pace. What Ive seem is she a little bit quicker, but does it with so much less effort. This means she enjoys the rideout, instead of feeling slow and tired out.


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## samsbike (2 Jan 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> If you have inclines or encounter a stiif headwind, then yes you would probably be quicker. If you're 10% quicker uphill then you will be quicker.
> 
> My wife's ebike I have to draft her, just to stay with her on a 1/2 mile gradual climb. The speed we are talking about is around 14 mph, add in a headwind and I cant sustain her comfortable pace. What Ive seem is she a little bit quicker, but does it with so much less effort. This means she enjoys the rideout, instead of feeling slow and tired out.


That’s a benefit I am seeing - not so tired out but no faster in time


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## mynydd (5 Jan 2020)

I like the look of the Scott.... for 1600...
a good option for my, much pondered, new commuter for my hilly commute?


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## Mike_P (5 Jan 2020)

The best type of ebike for hilly terrain as I understand is one with a crank drive rather than rear wheel drive and certainly not a front wheel drive. That was fully demonstrated on the section of NCN67 west of Ripley North Yorkshire where on my legal TSDZ2 fitted hybrid I had to slow down behind a rear wheel drive fitted MTB and then on the hill of Hollybank Lane left the MTB struggling behind


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## Pale Rider (5 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> I like the look of the Scott.... for 1600...
> a good option for my, much pondered, new commuter for my hilly commute?



Yes, a Bosch CX would get an averagely fit cyclist up all but the very steepest 25% plus climbs, and might even do those.

That Scott does have the 2019 CX internally geared motor, which is bigger and a little noisier than the 2020 motor in the pic.

Power is about the same, although the 2020 motor is easier to pedal unassisted.

The new motor is nicer, but I doubt you'd get a bike with one under £2,000.

The Scott in the link is still a good deal.


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## mynydd (5 Jan 2020)

thanks, shame they’ve not got a large.... I’m 5.10 so at the limit of the medium...... anyone know what the Scott sizing is like?


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## Pale Rider (5 Jan 2020)

The Scott was available in all sizes so you may have to move quickly for a bike on a good reduction.

Size is not so critical on a hybrid bike, and it does have plenty of adjustment in the handlebars.

Only way to be sure would be to throw your leg over one.

Rutland has a sale on.

I'd be inclined to visit if possible, or give them a ring.

Some of these deals have already sold out.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/electric-bikes/instock/onsale


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## mynydd (5 Jan 2020)

Thanks, I guess a medium would probably be fine.
can you tell me the difference between the motor on the scott and the one on the cube I’d been looking at? The cube has this: Bosch Drive Unit Performance Generation 3 (65Nm) Cruise (250Watt)..... I’m a bit confused 
many thanks


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## Pale Rider (5 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> I’m a bit confused



It is confusing and I would need to see a link to the exact Cube bike to be certain.

The Scott definitely has a 2019 CX motor (despite the pic showing otherwise), which is the most powerful.

It has the small chain ring, geared up inside, which works but makes it harder to pedal unassisted.

That small chain ring has been dropped on all 2020 bikes.

Generation 3 is usually used to describe the small chain ring motor, which suggests that is what the Cube you are looking at has.

The Performance Line is slightly less torquey than the CX, but there isn't much in it.

Probably perfectly adequate for you, even if you have to resort to Turbo mode now and again.

If the Cube has the bigger chain ring motor, all is well.


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## confusedcyclist (6 Jan 2020)

> Power is about the same, although the 2020 motor is easier to pedal unassisted.


This isn't as big a problem as it sounds, unless you plan on using your bike to keep up with road bikers on flat roads, or plan on riding a lot with a flat battery. For everyone else, it's a minor annoyance, but I like to go as fast as possible, so it's nice not to have to worry about that drag. I opted for the 2020 model.


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