# Road bike with flat bars?



## bennydorano (10 Sep 2010)

Hi all,

Currently on a fairly ropey hybrid and looking to upgrade, was thinking of upgrading to a much superior hybrid but have been advised I'll still not be able to compete with my road bike using mates. 

I have suffered with back trouble since I was a teenager and road bikes dont agree with me but after some serious research I've came across this yoke below (to my shame I didn't realise you could get a flat bar road bike) & I think it might suit my needs .

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/scott/speedster-s50-flat-bar-2010-road-bike-ec020708

Any advice or similar experiences to relay?


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## Norm (10 Sep 2010)

Being a creaky 46-year old, I sometimes get a sore back but I find it is easier after I've done a few miles on the road bike. 

The bit which does hurt after more than three hours riding in a day is the shoulders / neck from having to look upwards all the time. 

I would think that sort of issue would be as bad, if not worse, on a flat-barred bike as it is one with drops because the tops of my bars are higher than the saddle and I only have that hands-below-bum thing when on the drops.

Although, of course, "back trouble" encompasses a huge number of alternatives and Your Mileage May Vary.  

Hope that helped.


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## bennydorano (10 Sep 2010)

Norm said:


> Being a creaky 46-year old, I sometimes get a sore back but I find it is easier after I've done a few miles on the road bike.
> 
> The bit which does hurt after more than three hours riding in a day is the shoulders / neck from having to look upwards all the time.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply.

I'm 6ft 2" and the guts of 16stone which probably isn't helping matters but I've been on a road bike a few times and I know what my body can and cant take and I knew after 2X20 mile stints that it wasn't for me. 

Was thinking that this bike with maybe the bull horns attached for variable hand positions could be the answer I'm looking for. I also get the sore neck/shoulder thing, but my road bike riding mate does as well!

Doing 85mile ride tomorrow on my hybrid anyway, this new one is for the future!


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## HLaB (10 Sep 2010)

I first started at the club on a flat bar road bike, a sirrus sport 06 (newer models have been downgeared but the mine has same gearing to the Scott, 52/42/30 and 12-26). It could cope with the club run although it was a bit of a pain when everybody is freewheeling downhill and I was needing to pedal to keep up. Its hard in headwinds too but with a lot of work it can be there or there about.


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## Willo (10 Sep 2010)

I'm also fairly creaky, and ride a bike with drop bars. However, if you're after a road bike with flat bars, another option is the Giant Rapid range which they market as road speed with flat bars. Have no experience of this cycle, but did look at it when considering a new bike a couple of years back and just flagging as another option for consider.


http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/model/rapid.4/4866/38976/


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## John the Monkey (10 Sep 2010)

Those rapids are REALLY nice looking bike - chap I get the train with occasionally has one.

I'd echo the misgivings about riding position on flat vs drops though, especially on a flat bar bike with fairly agressive geometry you could end up lower than you'd be on the hoods of a "Sportive" type drop bar bike.


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## Norm (10 Sep 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> I'd echo the misgivings about riding position on flat vs drops though, especially on a flat bar bike with fairly agressive geometry you could end up lower than you'd be on the hoods of a "Sportive" type drop bar bike.


This was exactly my thinking. I know that the exact set up will depend on the frame size chosen, as well as body shape, but the photo of that Speedster S50 shows the bars well below saddle height. You could be more upright on something like the Secteur or, even more so, on something like a cyclo-cross bike.


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## MacB (10 Sep 2010)

I get the impression that a lot of the problem with drop bar bikes isn't the drop bars but the geometry that doesn't match a riders flexibility. Flat bar road bikes are often not much better, especially when it's compact geometry, get the saddle high enough and you have a big drop to the flat bars. Having been really against the idea initially I now wouldn't spec another bike without drop bars. But I also wouldn't spec a full on racing machine as that wouldn't suit me or my riding style. I've tried all sorts of handlebars and variations and nothing else compares to:-

drop bars, with cross top levers added - it doesn't matter to me where the gear shifters are, I use bar end ones, but I do like having access to brakes from all hand positions. The biggest difference I found was on descending, in the drops is far superior to anywhere else.

It's perfectly feasible to do this without being a racing whippet but you need to look at the height of the bars. You can get them higher by having a custom frame, looking for bikes with longer head tubes and more relaxed geometry, looking at fast tourers, getting a bike where you can specify the steerer tube isn't cut, getting an adaptor that extends an ahead steerer tube, using a more steeply angled stem. I think the Spesh Roubaix range recognises this and has a higher front end than a lot of bikes. You can also lower them again if you find your flexibility improving, or even switch between stems depending on the sort of riding you're doing. Swapping an ahead stem is very easy and very quick.


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## bennydorano (10 Sep 2010)

Norm said:


> This was exactly my thinking. I know that the exact set up will depend on the frame size chosen, as well as body shape, but the photo of that Speedster S50 shows the bars well below saddle height. You could be more upright on something like the Secteur or, even more so, on something like a cyclo-cross bike.



It's a line of thinking I hadn't even considered - inexperience I suppose. That bike looks like it could be the job. Would a 58cm frame still be ideal for my height considering the different 'geometry'? (not too au fait with the sizing tbh).


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## MacB (10 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> It's a line of thinking I hadn't even considered - inexperience I suppose. That bike looks like it could be the job. Would a 58cm frame still be ideal for my height considering the different 'geometry'? (not too au fait with the sizing tbh).



I'm 6ft 1" and 17 stone, I have a Giant CRS Alliance in large which has an effective top tube of 596mm and a Surly Crosscheck 60cm with an effective top tube of 600mm. I could ride a smaller bike but that would mean a shorter head tube and a lower starting point for the handlebar height. I suppose going up a frame size means the bike handles slower but, to be honest, I've never really noticed. Maybe if I lost 5 stone that might start to matter!!! 

Worth visiting shops, trying out bikes etc


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## Chris S (10 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> http://www.evanscycl...d-bike-ec020708




£550 for a bike and you don't even get pedals! What's the story behind that?


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## MacB (10 Sep 2010)

Chris S said:


> £550 for a bike and you don't even get pedals! What's the story behind that?



all part of the great shoes ruse  


http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse


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## John the Monkey (10 Sep 2010)

MacB said:


> Worth visiting shops, trying out bikes etc



Definitely - a proper bike shop will listen to what you want, and spec the bike accordingly.


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## Norm (10 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> It's a line of thinking I hadn't even considered - inexperience I suppose. That bike looks like it could be the job. Would a 58cm frame still be ideal for my height considering the different 'geometry'? (not too au fait with the sizing tbh).


I'm about 5'11" and 3 stone heavier than you and I ride a 54cm frame. I've flipped the stem to make the bars a little higher but the size feels excellent for me.

This pic was taken before I flipped the stem, so the bars sit a little higher than this now.


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## bennydorano (14 Sep 2010)

Upon further investigation, why does it look like I might be best suited to a Ladies bike What sort of reaction would that get me on the roads?


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## colinr (14 Sep 2010)

Unless you get one in a particularly girly colour with flowers decals, I really don't think anyone would notice.


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## Crankarm (14 Sep 2010)

A "road bike" in the normal cycling vernacular refers to a drop handle bar racing bike. If the bike has flat bars it is NOT a road bike although obviously can be ridden on the roads as can any bike. So a flat barred bike is not a road bike. I think the term is some sort of hybrid or mongrel bike. A flat barred hybrid bike will never be able to keep up with a proper drop handle bar road bike where the riders are of fairly equal capabilities.


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## Rubber Bullets (16 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> It's a line of thinking I hadn't even considered - inexperience I suppose. That bike looks like it could be the job. Would a 58cm frame still be ideal for my height considering the different 'geometry'? (not too au fait with the sizing tbh).



I'm 6'3" and have a Secteur with a 58cm frame. Suits me just fine, though you would have to try one out to be sure. I can't say for sure that our ratio of leg length to body length would be the same.

RB


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## sayek1 (16 Sep 2010)

I started out last year moving from a more mountain-bike style hybrid to getting a flat bar boardman hybrid - I never thought I'd want/like drop bars and that they wee for more flexible, lighter, faster, younger people etc.
However, a couple of months down the line I tried a drop bar road bike and was hooked. Like you I suffer from some back trouble, but to be honest there is no difference - in fact I now prefer drop bars to riding anything else and am looking at selling off my hybrid and getting another road bike for winter.

My advice would be to try a few road bikes with drop bars that are more "sportive" geometry rather than all out race and see how they feel - I ride on the hoods 90% of the time and actually feel far more relaxed doing that than on my hybrid. It does allow you the opportunity to go into the drops if needs be and will also open up a thousand fold increase in options.

Good luck on your choice.


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## crunch61 (16 Sep 2010)

I'm 6' 2" and carrying an awful lot of weight to shift, I also have a bad back, which doesn't make matters any better...
I bought a Giant Rapid 3 in May/June this year to help with those problems, and to be honest, it's one of the best bikes I've ridden! I've owned road bikes for years before I stopped cycling, and I find it really comfortable, although having always used steel frames, I find it a little bit on the hard side over rough and ropey roads!
Well worth trying one out I reckon


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## jack the lad (17 Sep 2010)

Whether you have flats or drops doesn't really matter. With the right size/type of frame, headset spacers and the rights stem length and angle you can get a very similar position with either that doesn't put too much strain on your back or neck. Bar width is also a factor too - riding on the tops of drops gives less width than most flat bars could offer and makes you a bit more hunched, which might not help. I personally prefer wide flat bars with the added bonus that I feel more in control, especially on fast descents, which also reduces tension in my neck and shoulders. There's no right or wrong - just what suits you. It's trial and error - but unfortunately not cheap to put right if you get it wrong!

Riding position isn't the only thing that contributes to a bad back. A stiff frame, hard saddle and thin hard tyres are likely to make things worse. They might be faster in theory, but back pain slows me down more than fat tyres, a comfy saddle and a resilient steel frame do. If you can't keep up with your friends - choose different friends!


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## mgarl10024 (17 Sep 2010)

A chappy in work is very interested in speed, but like you also has back issues.
He went for one of these: Giant Seek 0.

Overall, he loves it. It took a while to get used to the hub gears (another subject altogether), but they do a lower model without those if you don't like them.


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## bennydorano (17 Sep 2010)

Think in my own mind I've settled on this http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/secteur-sport-2010-road-bike-ec019550 the biggest draw back is that my LBS doesn't do Specialised bikes, there are only 2 that stock Specialised in Northern Ireland and both have none in stock, which means buying online without getting my arse on it, which is very dodgy ground. My LBS has a Fuji or 2 (and a Felt) which I think has similar geometry would that be a good enough tester?


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## MacB (17 Sep 2010)

I've found this guys findings to be remarkably accurate, you only need to read the first 3 or 4 pages:-

http://www.prodigalchild.net/Bicycle6.htm

going by his chart for my height, inseam and footsize I get an overall 695mm for TT(effective) and stem combined. Nothing to stop you tweaking after this, you can go a bit shorter etc, but I'd rate it as a good starting point. I'd set up my bikes via trial and error, assistance from others and various fit calculators. When measured all of the results come out within his recommendations. Things to note if using his info:-

he's basing it around a road fit and road geometry, as he mentions you can go up a size tio get the bars higher

if you go for a more relaxed frame, ie smaller seat tube angle this shortens the reach as measured from the BB to the HT in an 'effective top tube' style. For example, two frames with 600mm top tubes, one with a 72 degree ST and one with a 73. The one with a 73 will have more reach forward from the BB. As you would probably have the saddle to BB relationship equal on both. Then the 72 would need a slightly longer stem than the 73 to get the same position.


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## bennydorano (19 Sep 2010)

Impatience got the better of me and i bought the Specialised bike, expecting delivery next week so hopefully I'll not pay for my impatience. Thanks for all the help, after researching I dont think there's much more suitable about tbh.


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## bennydorano (25 Sep 2010)

Did a 25m stint on the new yoke and have my doubts if I'm honest, it was a terrible evening - windy and freezing which certainly didn't help matters, but I honestly think my hybrid is as fast. The spec says chainrings of 50x39x30, but the 39 felt terrible I was onto the big cog almost immediatley. It's going to take a bit of getting use to (next spring prob).


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## HLaB (25 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> Did a 25m stint on the new yoke and have my doubts if I'm honest, it was a terrible evening - windy and freezing which certainly didn't help matters, but I honestly think my hybrid is as fast. The spec says chainrings of 50x39x30, but the 39 felt terrible I was onto the big cog almost immediatley. It's going to take a bit of getting use to (next spring prob).



After just one ride its too early to tell but how did you get on with the riding position/ back. I dare say if the hybrid was in those conditions it wouldn't have felt just as fast. I too don't like small rings, I don't feel comfortable with them and do 90% of my riding in the larger ring. I hope you get use to the bike soon


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## bennydorano (25 Sep 2010)

Riding position was ok, had clips on the pedals which i've never used and I felt they restricted me - so they were changed today. I felt I was stretching a bit to the handle bars, I've a friend who reckons he can save me a centimetre of stretching by adjusting the bars someway. It has a future, it'll will just take a bit of getting use to! 

The arse was sore too, the racing seats are less forgiving than the armchair I have on my hybrid.


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## Andrew_P (27 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> Riding position was ok, had clips on the pedals which i've never used and I felt they restricted me - so they were changed today. I felt I was stretching a bit to the handle bars, I've a friend who reckons he can save me a centimetre of stretching by adjusting the bars someway. It has a future, it'll will just take a bit of getting use to!
> 
> The arse was sore too, the racing seats are less forgiving than the armchair I have on my hybrid.




I want someone to convince me in to investing in a Road Bike, and this hasn't done the job!


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## Andrew_P (27 Sep 2010)

Crankarm said:


> A flat barred hybrid bike will never be able to keep up with a proper drop handle bar road bike where the riders are of fairly equal capabilities.



See my post above, can you explain why? My last Racer was a, some 25+ years ago. I see Racers on the road and they always seem to be moving faster and looking easier work but my assumption is that they are fitter, stronger riders.


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## Norm (27 Sep 2010)

bennydorano said:


> Riding position was ok, had clips on the pedals which i've never used and I felt they restricted me - so they were changed today. I felt I was stretching a bit to the handle bars, I've a friend who reckons he can save me a centimetre of stretching by adjusting the bars someway. It has a future, it'll will just take a bit of getting use to!
> 
> The arse was sore too, the racing seats are less forgiving than the armchair I have on my hybrid.


The pedals are not the best, so swapping them was a good move. However, I persevered with the toe clips for about 600 miles, and then moved to clipless pedals, and I'm just about, after about 500 miles, starting to feel comfortable being locked onto the bike. However, from the first ride, I benefited from the clipless pedals, reducing my time on a measured route by about 5%.

The seat you will get used to, and I would say it'll only be another ride or two if you are doing 25 miles at a time. Once your bum and your saddle are acquainted, you should be comfortable riding on it all day. I've swapped the saddle on my Secteur to an even harder one now, and I love it.

Your friend is probably looking at flipping the stem. I did that to mine, a short and simple operation which brought the bars up and back by, at a guess, a couple of centimetres, a worthwhile gain if you are finding it a bit of a stretch. 



LOCO said:


> I want someone to convince me in to investing in a Road Bike, and this hasn't done the job!


That's a first ride report, and it will be a shock to the body to move to a bike with drops, the things are lighter and faster but that also means they are not as plush. That doesn't make them uncomfortable, just that you need to allow some time to get used to the differences.

By "racers", I'll assume (or is that ass-u-me  ) that you mean bikes with dropped bars. 

Being sweepingly generalistic, dropped bars are more efficient because they are, generally, narrower and lower and the rest of the bike is likely to be lighter and higher spec. Most flat barred bikes I see are in the £300-£500 price range, whereas most with drops are £750+, the better kit does make for faster, smoother and more efficient riding. The riding position itself is also more efficient, the head is lower for better aerodynamics, the bars are narrower also for aero, the top tube is shorter to use the core muscles better... most of these features _can be_ found on bikes with flat bars, but they usually aren't.

It is also possible (it is my personal experience) that people ride slower on bikes with flat bars because that is the sort of riding they are choosing to do. I tend to push harder when I'm on a bike with drops, maybe it is the increased efficiency, maybe I have made the choice of bike because I want to go somewhere faster, maybe I am out to push myself a bit more when I ride a bike with drops, maybe it's entirely psychological. Whatever the cause, my average speed on the flat-barred road bike is around 14mph, whereas it is usually over 16mph on the Secteur.


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## jimboalee (27 Sep 2010)

Flat bar road bike.

A bike that is fairly light, comparable to a mid-range Roadbike.

They are for people who were brought up on MTBs and got used to the brake levers being 'right there' in front of the fingers. The people who haven't got the balls can't summon the courage to ride a bike with racing bends.


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## Andrew_P (27 Sep 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Flat bar road bike.
> 
> A bike that is fairly light, comparable to a mid-range Roadbike.
> 
> They are for people who were brought up on MTBs and got used to the brake levers being 'right there' in front of the fingers. The people who haven't got the balls can't summon the courage to ride a bike with racing bends.


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## bennydorano (27 Sep 2010)

Did another shorter 15m stint on Sunday (in much better weather conditions) and have to say it felt much better. Still want to shave the xtra CM stretch thou and i will probably get a bigger 2nd chainring in time for the Spring. 

I was out with my 11stone mate and the realisation hit me that it wouldn't matter if I was on a £10k bike I'm going to have to lose about 2 stone if I want to be more competitive.


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## Cyclist33 (27 Sep 2010)

But you could get a £10k bike and find out... ;-)


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## jimboalee (27 Sep 2010)

It wouldn't help.

Losing 0.25m^2 off his frontal area would help.


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## bennydorano (29 Sep 2010)

Been out 4 times now and the biggest difference I can feel is in my thighs, continually 'burning'. I assume this is from the different riding position? I never got it as bad as this on the hybrid and I would have been on the big cog most of the time. If this is the case will the shortening of the reach help as it would alter my position again? Once I hit between 15/20 mile I can feel the back too.


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