# Tiagra vs 105 vs Ultegra



## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

My new bike fund is coming along now, I have started having a good look at what's around on sale etc now is a good time for deals on 2016 bikes it seems.

My main question is regarding group sets, is there a major difference between Tiagra 4700, 105 5800 & Ultegra? I know there are weight savings to be had, but is say 105 much smoother than Tiagra for example?

I am looking at the Merida Ride range LBS is a specialist and I want to use them, basically it's getting either a Ride 300, 400 or 500.

Another thing I was considering is maintenance costs I am going to assume Ultegra is horrific if something goes wrong?


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## mythste (2 Nov 2016)

I find 105 hits the sweet spot between being cheap to maintain and slick to operate. I've used Tiagra and it was definitely less slick of a system.


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## hatler (2 Nov 2016)

When I was eyeing up a new bike I asked the LBS the difference between 105 and Ultegra.

Came the reply "Ultegra is a bit smoother, a bit lighter, and 300 quid more."

I went with 105.

I honestly don't think I'd be able to tell the difference if my eyes were closed (other than that my wallet would be lighter).

I think mythste has it right.


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## vickster (2 Nov 2016)

Try them out and decide for yourself as you'll be the one riding 

Also see if hood shape has any impact on your ability to ride and brake comfortably. That's the reason I personally use SRAM and not any shimano


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## User482 (2 Nov 2016)

The new 105 (5800 series) is really, really good: I prefer it to the 6700 Ultegra I had before it. My understanding is that 6800 Ultegra is functionally very similar, but a bit lighter.


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## Milkfloat (2 Nov 2016)

On groupset alone the difference between Tiagra and 105 is only about £45. I would pay more than that for future proofing of 11 speed. I run Ultegra (6900) and 105 (5800) on my geared road bikes and there is very little noticeable difference in use, I would not bother with Ultegra again, but the frame was a nicer colour


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## Dirk (2 Nov 2016)

The new 10 speed Tiagra is excellent and can take up to a 34 tooth rear cassette.


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## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

vickster said:


> Try them out and decide for yourself as you'll be the one riding
> 
> Also see if hood shape has any impact on your ability to ride and brake comfortably. That's the reason I personally use SRAM and not any shimano



I tried in store and tbh I found the Tiagra a little less smooth, 105 and Ultegra I couldn't tell them apart, the hoods on all three didn't bother me, I haven't tried any SRAM ones Merida seem to only use Shimano.


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## Red17 (2 Nov 2016)

I've got 10 speed Tiagra on one of my bikes and 11 speed Ultegra on the other.

Back to back the Ultegra is slightly smoother in operation, but if I wasn't actually looking for the difference I doubt I would notice it that much.


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## Yellow Saddle (2 Nov 2016)

Can anyone please explain where they found this extra smoothness in the better sets and describe it?


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## Yellow Saddle (2 Nov 2016)

Johnno260 said:


> My new bike fund is coming along now, I have started having a good look at what's around on sale etc now is a good time for deals on 2016 bikes it seems.
> 
> My main question is regarding group sets, is there a major difference between Tiagra 4700, 105 5800 & Ultegra? I know there are weight savings to be had, but is say 105 much smoother than Tiagra for example?
> 
> ...



As you go up in the quality, the sets use less steel and more aluminium. The coatings also become fancier and therefore more expensive. Operation and durability is approximately the same.

Maintenance cost isn't more for the most expensive (for a long time after acquisition) because the parts that wear are common across the groups. Jockey wheels, chains, cassettes, BBs - all of those are pretty standard. Yes, you can buy an Ultegra cassette but a 105 one will work just as well. It is in fact the same cassette with a different coating. All the coatings are excellent.

After a while, an Ultegra crank may require a new chainring and that's a bit more expensive on an Ultegra since that one is hollow and machined to blend in and integrate with the rest of the crank. You cannot substitute on the chainring. As for the rest, replacement cost is similar.

You will not find the one operating better, smoother (whatever that means) or more efficient (whatever that means), than any other one in the top group.

With the highest group you usually get the nicest styling and of course, some street cred.

The decision cannot be rational. It is emotional and financial.


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## mythste (2 Nov 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> As you go up in the quality, the sets use less steel and more aluminium. The coatings also become fancier and therefore more expensive. Operation and durability is approximately the same.
> 
> Maintenance cost isn't more for the most expensive (for a long time after acquisition) because the parts that wear are common across the groups. Jockey wheels, chains, cassettes, BBs - all of those are pretty standard. Yes, you can buy an Ultegra cassette but a 105 one will work just as well. It is in fact the same cassette with a different coating. All the coatings are excellent.
> 
> ...



The action and resistance of the levers between 105 and Tiagra seemed very different to the feel. Are the shifter internals the same? 

I doubt it, but I don't know and would be curious to find out.


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## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> As you go up in the quality, the sets use less steel and more aluminium. The coatings also become fancier and therefore more expensive. Operation and durability is approximately the same.
> 
> Maintenance cost isn't more for the most expensive (for a long time after acquisition) because the parts that wear are common across the groups. Jockey wheels, chains, cassettes, BBs - all of those are pretty standard. Yes, you can buy an Ultegra cassette but a 105 one will work just as well. It is in fact the same cassette with a different coating. All the coatings are excellent.
> 
> ...



OK cheers Yellow the last part of my funds depends in part on my PPI payout.

I know it sounds daft, but frame wise there is little difference between the bikes I am looking at, it's cosmetic mainly, I am trying to work out my best bang for buck I suppose, also what will rule is what's on the best sale at the time, if I can afford an Ultegra and it's a good deal I suppose I would consider it as I prefer the cosmetics on that bike, I was really worried about cost of maintenance as well though.

Saying that the LBS has a Tiagra Ride 300 in store and I like that a lot, I have rode that and been measured on that bike and I really like it, but I was thinking as the costs are close is the 105 a better option.


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## Kajjal (2 Nov 2016)

I have 11 speed 105 and 10 speed tiagra and don't notice any real difference. This may be due to keeping them well maintained and adjusted. Also I have XT and twenty year old LX on my mountain bikes, the LX is smoother but 8 rather than 10 speed.


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## Yellow Saddle (2 Nov 2016)

mythste said:


> The action and resistance of the levers between 105 and Tiagra seemed very different to the feel. Are the shifter internals the same?
> 
> I doubt it, but I don't know and would be curious to find out.


The internals are the same, except for the Ultegra hydraulic lever.
The resistance is not provided by the levers but by the brake caliper springs - which are all the same.
The resistance - I'm not sure what you mean here but my guess is that you're talking friction. That's provided by the cables. Shimano cables are all the same except for the option of polymer-coated gear cables, but there's no need for them really. Conversely, you could fit them to your Tiagra if you want.


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## mythste (2 Nov 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> The internals are the same, except for the Ultegra hydraulic lever.
> The resistance is not provided by the levers but by the brake caliper springs - which are all the same.
> The resistance - I'm not sure what you mean here but my guess is that you're talking friction. That's provided by the cables. Shimano cables are all the same except for the option of polymer-coated gear cables, but there's no need for them really. Conversely, you could fit them to your Tiagra if you want.



Interesting. My experience is that there is a more linear resistance when changing gear up (to a larger casette ring) on 105, and a smaller "throw" required to change down. Resulting in a more positive feel in the levers.

I'm not proud of using positive as a descriptor but I can't think of a better one right now.

I'm talking about gear changing, not braking, for what its worth, in which case they do indeed feel identical.


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## Drago (2 Nov 2016)

Go for a ride blindfolded, and assuming you don't crash you'll not notice any difference. I've 105 and Tiagra bikes, and the only distinguishing characteristic on the gears is the slightly longer lever throw on the Tiggy. I've got big hands, long fingers, and actually prefer that.

Both feel equally slick and positive, both have been equally reliable and long lived between adjustments, and both look nearly identical.

The brakes are harder to gauge, as the Tiagra bike has unbranded callipers which are much better than the 105s, although that could be down to the braking surface on the wheels as he callipers themselves.


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## T4tomo (2 Nov 2016)

10 speed cassettes and chain are quite a bit cheaper than 11spd.

No one will notice if you put 105 cassette on Ultegra. KMC chain is best bet for replacement for either.

In terms of up front cost you cant objectively justify ultegra over 105. But if you prefer the cosmetics of that model then go for it, or I it comes with better wheelset etc.

All of them change the gears very very competantly


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## Racing roadkill (2 Nov 2016)

I've got several bikes, they are equipped from 'crappy Shimano Acera 8 speed' up to Shimano Ultegra 6800 11 speed, with Sora 9 speed, 105 5700 10 speed, and SRAM rival in there as well. Riding the opposite ends of the spectrum, on the bikes, in succession, shows the differences up nicely. Anyone that says they can't tell the difference between the groupsets, clearly hasn't actually ridden the different groupset equipped bikes much. The differences aren't subtle. The Ultegra is night and day different to the 105, the 105 is night and day different to the Sora, and so on, and so on. I'm not just referring to the differences in gearing, it's about the feel / responsiveness of the shifting and braking as well.


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## Paulus (2 Nov 2016)

Tiagra is very good for it's price, it works very well. I have Tiagra on one of my bikes. I upgraded another bike to 105 and found the difference to be in the shifting. 105 is just that bit smoother and easier. Both sets work well for me. You pays your money and takes your choice.


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## screenman (2 Nov 2016)

The more you pay the more you imagine they work better, I have bikes with Sora, 105, and Ultegra they are all set up nicely and work great.


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## Adam4868 (2 Nov 2016)

I've two bikes one with 105 ten speed and one with ultegra 10 speed and as someone said you'd struggle to tell a difference other than it has Ultegra wrote on it !


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## Soltydog (2 Nov 2016)

I had a 10 year old Spesh with 105 & when I got a Kinesis with Tiagra in May I was pleasantly surprised by how good the Tiagra was, certainly as good as my old 105. Then in the summer I got a Van Nic with 105, couldn't really justify the extra £300 for Ultegra, & the 105 is nicer than the new Tiagra. Changes just a bit smoother & worth the extra ££. But as others have said, try the different bikes/gearsets & see which you like


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## oldfatfool (2 Nov 2016)

All 3 will change gear. All three will grumble more or less if you change gear under massive load. Spend whatever you are comfortable spending. Ultegra will be smoother than 105 but not by the same degree that 105 is smoother than Tiagra (law of diminishing returns). As for the upkeep costs, you will find that a better groupset is cheaper on a bike as std than upgrading later, but should you baulk at paying for an ultegra cassette then you could still run a 105 when it comes to replacement.


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## Banjo (2 Nov 2016)

I currently have one Tiagra bike and one 5800 105 bike provided they are adjusted correctly both are great. Previously ad an Ultegra road bike which also worked well.

Better to spend money on a higher quality frame than a higher ranked groupset. You can upgrade groupset parts as they wear out..


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## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

Banjo said:


> I currently have one Tiagra bike and one 5800 105 bike provided they are adjusted correctly both are great. Previously ad an Ultegra road bike which also worked well.
> 
> Better to spend money on a higher quality frame than a higher ranked groupset. You can upgrade groupset parts as they wear out..



Yup that's true, I have my heart set on a Merida, I am sure there are better frames out there but I find them really comfortable.


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## Banjo (2 Nov 2016)

So long as it fits you and your comfortable on it go with the bike that excites you just looking at it. 

Buying a bike isnt all about finance and components.


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## RoubaixCube (2 Nov 2016)

Banjo said:


> Buying a bike isnt all about finance and components.



I beg to differ kind sir, but its actually a bit of both.... Getting the best Bang (bike/componentry) for your buck (finance)


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## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

Banjo said:


> So long as it fits you and your comfortable on it go with the bike that excites you just looking at it.
> 
> Buying a bike isnt all about finance and components.



I have found the ones I have tested really comfortable I really like the look of the bike as well and can't wait to finally have the rest of the cash ready and have decided what spec I want.

I am leaning more towards the 105 spec one, the blue 2017 colours are really nice, the Tiagra ones really nice as well but I prefer the other. 

It's just a waiting game now unless some crazy deals come along, you never know with Black Friday approaching.


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## CanucksTraveller (2 Nov 2016)

My wife's Giant Defy is 105 equipped, my Giant TCR is Tiagra equipped. Mine cost a bit more, largely because of the carbon frame, and I ride both bikes; To me at least they both shift gear and brake the same, and they're both great fun to ride with the really noticeable differences being in the geometry and the handling - I notice absolutely nothing about the components when I'm riding. I doubt you'll notice any difference either.... as has been said earlier and more eloquently by more knowledgeable people, go with whatever bike excites you the most. To me, the frame was the more important component to spend my limited budget on, but everyone's got different wants, needs and constraints.


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## fossyant (2 Nov 2016)

Just get Dura Ace. Mine has been going 25 years !


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## dim (2 Nov 2016)

105 is good .... I have this on my Giant TCR

however, I have Campagnolo Chorus on my Specialized S-Works .... brilliant, as you can do multiple gear/cog changes with one click. Gear changes are as smooth as butter ....

If ever I sell this bike, I will keep the groupset and wheels and replace it with a second hand 105 groupset, then transfer the chorus set to my new bike. Even the brakes are brilliant


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## CanucksTraveller (2 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> 105 is good .... I have Campagnolo Chorus on my Specialized S-Works .... brilliant, as you can do multiple gear/cog changes with one click.



Will the 105 not do a double gear change down? With the current Tiagra a standard push changes down one cog, but a firmer push takes you down two. You still have to double tap the trigger to go up two of course.


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## HLaB (2 Nov 2016)

The one noticeable difference I seen between Tiagra and 105 back about 5 years ago was the stupid thumb shifter on Tiagra but technology has trickled down and thats gone. I now run a 2nd hand ultegra and initially that had one noticeable benefit over the 105, more anaesthetically pleasing/ cleaner cable routeing (that said if you want to replace outers you have to unwind and perhaps replace tape). But that routing technology has also trickled down to the newer 105. I think if I was having to splash out I'd spend more on my frame and less on my groupset and 105 (last years Ultegra) would be my choice. If I was really strapped for cash again it''d be the best frame and Tiagra (last years 105)


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## winjim (2 Nov 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Will the 105 not do a double gear change down? With the current Tiagra a standard push changes down one cog, but a firmer push takes you down two. You still have to double tap the trigger to go up two of course.


Three up five down with UltraShift though.


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## User482 (2 Nov 2016)

HLaB said:


> The one noticeable difference I seen between Tiagra and 105 back about 5 years ago was t*he stupid thumb shifter on Tiagra but technology has trickled down and thats gone. *



Not on campag...


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## HLaB (2 Nov 2016)

User482 said:


> Not on campag...


Yes agreed. At the same time as I had a bike with Tiagra, I had one with Veloce and I couldn't understand why shimano got it so wrong


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## Caskman (2 Nov 2016)

Johnno260 said:


> My new bike fund is coming along now, I have started having a good look at what's around on sale etc now is a good time for deals on 2016 bikes it seems.
> 
> My main question is regarding group sets, is there a major difference between Tiagra 4700, 105 5800 & Ultegra? I know there are weight savings to be had, but is say 105 much smoother than Tiagra for example?
> 
> ...



I had a budget of around £900 for a new bike and fully expected to get a 105 11spd equipped machine. I ended up buying a Merida ride 300 with 10spd 4700 tiagra which more than suits my mediocre capabilities.
I cannot comment on 105/Ultegra as I've never used them but as others have said these will be smoother and have more kudos. You pay your money and take your choice


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## Johnno260 (2 Nov 2016)

Caskman said:


> I had a budget of around £900 for a new bike and fully expected to get a 105 11spd equipped machine. I ended up buying a Merida ride 300 with 10spd 4700 tiagra which more than suits my mediocre capabilities.
> I cannot comment on 105/Ultegra as I've never used them but as others have said these will be smoother and have more kudos. You pay your money and take your choice



One of the bikes I am considering is a Ride 300 really nice bike. 

If it's not the Ride 300 it will probably be the 400.


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## mythste (2 Nov 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Will the 105 not do a double gear change down? With the current Tiagra a standard push changes down one cog, but a firmer push takes you down two. You still have to double tap the trigger to go up two of course.



I can triple change down if I'm ferocious (read: did not judge this hill very well) enough.


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## Johnno260 (3 Nov 2016)

I am watching this like a hawk mind you!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172393329845?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## Shortandcrisp (3 Nov 2016)

fossyant said:


> Just get Dura Ace. Mine has been going 25 years !



If it's 25 years old, then isn't that a good advert for present day tiagra?


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## tallliman (3 Nov 2016)

vickster said:


> Try them out and decide for yourself as you'll be the one riding
> 
> Also see if hood shape has any impact on your ability to ride and brake comfortably. That's the reason I personally use SRAM and not any shimano



Apologies for being slightly off topic, I'd agree that I find my sram rival equipped bike to be easier to brake on than my 105. Never thought it being for the reason you mention. thanks!


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## dim (3 Nov 2016)

here: ... newly listed and a very good bike ... £490 buy it now on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-TCR...336257?hash=item282380d001:g:3GcAAOSwHMJYGMZM


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## vickster (3 Nov 2016)

tallliman said:


> Apologies for being slightly off topic, I'd agree that I find my sram rival equipped bike to be easier to brake on than my 105. Never thought it being for the reason you mention. thanks!


I am a wuss and have interrupter cross lever brakes on my 'tourer' and CX but not on the carbon. I don't know if psychologically that's why I've not ridden the carbon this year...


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## Johnno260 (3 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> here: ... newly listed and a very good bike ... £490 buy it now on ebay
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-TCR...336257?hash=item282380d001:g:3GcAAOSwHMJYGMZM


wow that is nice.


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## Caskman (3 Nov 2016)

Johnno260 said:


> One of the bikes I am considering is a Ride 300 really nice bike.
> 
> If it's not the Ride 300 it will probably be the 400.


Got my Ride 300 for £675 after a generous 10% discount from a LBS and I'm very pleased with it ( although I am a big Merida fan). Saying that, the eBay Giant TCR posted above looks fantastic.


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## Johnno260 (4 Nov 2016)

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b72s6p7372/MERIDA-RIDE-500-2016

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b72s6p7371/MERIDA-RIDE-400-2016

I added these to the deals section as well, not sure on the Team Lampre colours, the 500 in Green & Black I love.


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## Caskman (5 Nov 2016)

Johnno260 said:


> http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b72s6p7372/MERIDA-RIDE-500-2016
> 
> http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b72s6p7371/MERIDA-RIDE-400-2016
> 
> I added these to the deals section as well, not sure on the Team Lampre colours, the 500 in Green & Black I love.


Green and black for me all day long.


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