# what should i buy



## ACW (4 May 2009)

Hi Everybody
35 years on a diamond frame bike is enough and i want a recumbent but what should i be looking for.
daily ride to work summer and winter 10 miles a day, cant do longer than 20 miles just now as my back is killing me after that so i am hoping that a recumbent will enable me to do longer rides, 50miles at least. i want to build up my stamina but cant get the miles done. i like to go fast or i may enjoy going slow on a recumbent, frankly i have no idea.

what would you recommend, low racer, tourer, hiracer?

thanks in advance

Andy


----------



## Mr Magoo (4 May 2009)

I would suggest you contact D.TEK HPVS about your wishes and wants .
Kevin will put you on the right track and should save you pounds ££££'s in the long term 
All for the cost of a 15 min phone call.
His intro session is the best in the country !
A number of Cycle Chat forum members have been to the Little Thetford "Sweet-shop" .


----------



## arallsopp (5 May 2009)

Depends where you are in the country.

I've had very good service from:
*London:*
Stuart at Bikefix in Lambs Conduit Street (challenge, hpvelotechnik, burrows, ice, bachetta, raptobike). He'll let you take any of them out for trial rides, and is a good source of information. Good website too, at www.bikefix.co.uk

Oliver at London Recumbents. Naff website, but great service and very good information. (Challenge, Hase). Is based in Dulwich Park, and lets you hire / trial anything he's got in the shed. Is very helpful.

*Edinburgh* David at http://www.laid-back-bikes.co.uk/ is very good indeed. Extremely helpful, and arranges day tours to try out potential purchases. A wealth of information, offering Challenge, Raptobike, Nazca, Voss, Ice.

There's also http://www.trikesandstuff.co.uk/ (speak to Catrike on these boards) in Kent. He has a wealth of information on catrike, go one, M5 and accessories, and has been very good to me in the past.

Where are you based?


----------



## 3tyretrackterry (5 May 2009)

try D tek first but there is a trice q on this forum for sale and on velovision there is a trice explorer for sale and i must say that the explorer is a mighty fine trike as i have one and couldnt be more pleased with it hope this helps 
ian


----------



## xpc316e (5 May 2009)

I endorse the advice given above, but a trip to Dtek is going to be worthwhile wherever you are. Kevin holds a large stock; you can try all the different flavours, and then choose something used if you do not want to buy new. I haven't heard a bad word said about him. It sounds like a short wheelbase might suit you - but you do not know until you've tried a few bikes. For instance, you might find that you really get on well with under seat steering, when you thought that above seat steering was the way to go. I came to 'bents because of the pain I experienced on DFs, and they really are the solution to my problems - I hope they enable you to get back to doing the mileages you want. Good Luck.


----------



## dataretriever (5 May 2009)

Wot they said!


----------



## stevew (5 May 2009)

Wot they said +1. I think it may be worth checking out the Bacchetta Giro now as the Cafe is no longer made. I love my Cafe and would recommend it to you. Riding position is the same on the Cafe and the Giro. This is assuming that you may want two wheels. Purchased from Kevin at Dtek and a satisfied customer.


----------



## ACW (6 May 2009)

i live in ayrshire south of glasgow, 
2nd question: - do i go for full suspension, rear only or none at all.

ayrshire recently won worst roads in the country award!!

Thanks


----------



## byegad (6 May 2009)

There are good reasons on oth sides.

Usually suspension equals weight, but gives a smooth ride. 

On the other hand, the recumbent position spreads any impact from the road over a lot more of your body than a DF position. It is possible to brace between your feet and the top of the seat for really big potholes, if you feel the need.


----------



## banjokat (6 May 2009)

With your location I'd give David at http://www.laid-back-bikes.co.uk/bikes.htm in Edinburgh a call. He has a few bikes to try and he'll give you a very good introduction to recumbents.


----------



## Amanda P (6 May 2009)

... or Ben at Kinetics. I think he deals in HP Velo machines, Hase, maybe others.

Phone or call in person though.


----------



## squeaker (6 May 2009)

*Suspension*



ACW said:


> do i go for full suspension, rear only or none at all.
> ayrshire recently won worst roads in the country award!


IME (full sus Grasshopper - and previously Mistral - vs rear suspension only Trice) I'd go full sus., but there is a financial and weight penalty. On the plus side is comfort and, on bumpy roads at speed, control from having decent suspension. (On a DF your arms and legs can provide isolation from shock: as Byegad said you can lever yourself up on a 'bent, but it's not as natural as on a DF.)
But do try as many as possible: enjoy!


----------



## dmb (11 May 2009)

Andy do you plan to ride with anyone on a DF? if so the bacetta aero is pretty close to a DF in most areas, makes it possible to ride with them, a trike or a heavier sus bet are a little on the slow side


----------



## dmb (11 May 2009)

The bachetta also has an adjustable seat so can play with the recline angle and the smaller 24 wheels means its not too high either.


----------



## dmb (11 May 2009)

http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumbents/bikes/corsa_specs_24.htm

it appears I have the name wrong!


----------



## Andy in Sig (11 May 2009)

ACW said:


> i live in ayrshire south of glasgow,
> 2nd question: - do i go for full suspension, rear only or none at all.
> 
> ayrshire recently won worst roads in the country award!!
> ...



I've got an HPV Street Machine which is designed as a tourer and is equivalent to an upright tourer in that IMO it is probably the best allrounder you can get.


----------



## bonj2 (11 May 2009)

xpc316e said:


> I endorse the advice given above, but a trip to Dtek is going to be worthwhile wherever you are. Kevin holds a large stock; you can try all the different flavours, and then choose something used if you do not want to buy new. I haven't heard a bad word said about him.



I've got an excellent word to say for him, whichis that he saved me a grand, at least. I wasgoing to buy a recumbent or a trike, but I went and tried a load out at his place and came to the conclusion that the idea of a recumbent is shite.

What I found was that the under-seat-steering ones are not too difficult to handle, but not much lower than a normal bike - so hardly get any of the aerodynamic advantages.

Some of the above-seat-steering ones are low enough to get fairly low to get the aerodynamic advantage, but they are completely impossible to handle - twitchy to the point of being dangerous in my experience.

VERY hard to steer round corners, and tight manoevring and hill starts - forget it. And that was a challenge hurricane, fairly low but by no means the lowest. 

From a bit of research it seems that it's basically a 6 month learning curve, obviously dependent on mileage, but from the blast I had on it I couldn't _notice_ any speed difference over again a normal bike - I would have had to fit a computer to tell, so it couldn't be more than about 5-10%, if that.

So i decided lack of agility and confidence and the lack of/negligibility of increase in speed made it not something i'd be atall willing to spend 4 figures on.

And the trikes, while fun going round corners, soon lost their novelty value because I expected the fact they were really low to the ground would make them seem faster, but in fact the opposite was the case.

I'm not saying recumbents are completely pointless/worthless for everybody, some get on with them fine, obviously - but all I would say is try before you buy - 'cos you may really like the idea of them, like I did, but then not take to it in the slightest.


----------



## Andy in Sig (11 May 2009)

My Street Machine is USS and therefore not the lowest. One very windy day I went out on a 40 km loop with a friend who was using a pretty decent mountain bike. I was at least 5kph quicker into the wind but what surprised me was that I was also quicker when the wind was at our backs. Maybe that would be a better way of assessing bents: do a ride alongside somebody whose performance you know when on an upright.


----------



## squeaker (12 May 2009)

bonj said:


> but I went and tried a load out at his place and came to the conclusion that the idea of a recumbent is shite


 you forgot to add the words 'for me' 
As a 'serious cyclist', no doubt you have been riding since you could walk: did you 'seriously' think that you could learn a somewhat different skill 'just like that'? Just 'cos something requires a different skill set doesn't make it 'shite'


----------



## Amanda P (12 May 2009)

bonj said:


> under-seat-steering ones are not too difficult to handle, but not much lower than a normal bike - so hardly get any of the aerodynamic advantages.



Height has little to do with aerodynamics. It's more to do with effective frontal area. The more horizontal the rider, the lower the frontal area. This is usually (but not always - check out Bacchetta's 26" wheeled bikes) associated with the bike being low to the ground too.

Hang on, this is Bonj. Why am I even attempting a logical explanation?


----------



## bonj2 (12 May 2009)

surely the best recumbent is a Challenge Fujin, and that's got to be virtually impossible to ride it's so low, still going to be difficult after months of practice...
With the steering and the weight directly in between the driven wheel and the steering wheel it's bound to ALWAYS be shaky - even when you've mastered it - it's just once you've mastered it you just know how to mitigate the shakiness. NOt good imo.
Claiming that "a learning curve is to be expected" doesn't make it any more tolerable.


----------



## byegad (12 May 2009)

bonj said:


> surely the best recumbent is a Challenge Fujin, and that's got to be virtually impossible to ride it's so low, still going to be difficult after months of practice...
> With the steering and the weight directly in between the driven wheel and the steering wheel it's bound to ALWAYS be shaky - even when you've mastered it - it's just once you've mastered it you just know how to mitigate the shakiness. NOt good imo.
> Claiming that "a learning curve is to be expected" doesn't make it any more tolerable.



Speaking from my experience of learning to ride my AZUB-4, there is a learnng curve and you can learn to ride smoothly. I did it with an undiagnosed balance problem so anyone else, without my health problems anyone else could too.

To state from inexperience that it is impossible seems a little rash, bonj. I know a couple of Fujin owners and they are not supermen, just people with open minds!


----------



## arallsopp (12 May 2009)

I tried a Fujin, but found it a touch too low for daily use. I'd echo the earlier post about the SMGTe. Its a brilliant all rounder, and is the bent that all my friends use if they're joining me.

One at a time, of course.


----------



## ACW (13 May 2009)

Hi going to David at laid back bikes in Edinburgh on Saturday to try out a bike. my problem is i cannot ride for more than 1 hr at an high rate as my back gives out. i had a go on a recumbent exercise bike at the gym yesterday and managed 1/2 hr at the max hill setting on the bike without a twinge from my back. if it means learning to ride again i am more than willing to spend the money and put in the effort for pain free riding. after all there are no pockets in a coffin.
looked at the who owns what section and their seem to be quite a few challenge hurricane riders out there, would that be a good starting choice?
Cheers
Andy


----------



## arallsopp (13 May 2009)

I have every faith that David will sort you out. He is a good man, and well informed.

The hurricane is a popular choice, and you won't go far wrong with one, provided it feels like the best match after your test rides.

You really need to ride a few different models to work out which particular flavour of steering, bar position, gear ratios, suspension, weight, places to mount lights, racks, mudguards, etc will work for *you*. 

Like any bike, recumbents vary massively between manufacturers and models. Imagine you'd never seen a DF before, and were confronted with a pashley princess, a full suss d/h, and an all carbon TT bike. The respective owners would all say they had the 'best' bike, and could provide plenty of reasons why.

I guess what I'm saying is "Your needs are *yours* alone", and David is ideally positioned to assist you in identifying them. 

I've never managed to keep a hurricane upright for more than two pedal strokes, but can log 250 miles in a day on my Furai. My dad can ride my SMGTe without hesitation, but can't get out of the driveway on the Furai. Different strokes.


----------



## ACW (13 Jun 2009)

Hi all sorry its taken me so long to reply, went to see David in Edinburgh and i have a Nazca Fuego on order, delivery in mid july.
must say i found riding them fairly easy, after an initial wobble on my first go the rest was steady. still a lot to learn though. cant wait.
thanks for all the advice.
Andy


----------



## Chonker (13 Jun 2009)

Niceone, I was looking around at options for a lowracer but with commuter options (sus, rack, mudguards) and that one was high up my list. Just gotta save my pennies some more now


----------



## Andy in Sig (15 Jun 2009)

ACW said:


> Hi all sorry its taken me so long to reply, went to see David in Edinburgh and i have a Nazca Fuego on order, delivery in mid july.
> must say i found riding them fairly easy, after an initial wobble on my first go the rest was steady. still a lot to learn though. cant wait.
> thanks for all the advice.
> Andy



Out of interest, would you care to say what models you tried and what it was that led you to reject them before coming to your final choice?


----------



## ACW (16 Jun 2009)

Hi had a try on a challenge hurricane, nasca fuego and a challenge Furai.
the fuego ticked all the boxes (rack, mudguards, gears) and was easy to ride, the hurricane was a bit more tricky to ride, the furari, somewhere in the middle.

let you know more when i get it, mid july

Andy


----------



## arallsopp (17 Jun 2009)

I find the Furai lovely to ride. Lovely, lovely, lovely ACK!-Foot-in-the-front-wheel-again lovely, lovely. The Acks are getting rarer now.

Thank God.


----------



## Ivo.M (17 Jun 2009)

arallsopp said:


> I find the Furai lovely to ride. Lovely, lovely, lovely ACK!-Foot-in-the-front-wheel-again lovely, lovely. The Acks are getting rarer now.
> 
> Thank God.



So the Furai is sort of Hurricane lovely?


----------



## arallsopp (17 Jun 2009)

I think the heel strike risk on the Furai means it presents a steeper learning curve than the hurricane.
I joined the curve part way up already, having performed daily commutes on the SMGTe for 6 months prior to purchase.
If I couldn't confidently pull away in a straight line on the latter, I suspect I would not have been able to repeat the trick on the Furai.

For me, the Furai is the closest feel to the SMGTe I learned on, without the +8kg weight penalty.
As such, it fitted my needs pretty much exactly.

I now ride both regularly, and find I instinctively avoid pedal / wheel positioning on either, using rules learnt from the Furai. That the SMGTe doesn't have this issue is excess information for my addled brain.
I still can't get more than 10ft down the road with OSS though. I've seen it done, but Lord alone knows what arcane trickery is involved.

Bents are odd beasts, but IMHO, if confidence is high enough, almost any from the major stables can be made to suit. It took me a few months to get my average on the Furai above SMGTe speeds for the same terrain (major hills, lots of stops, traffic) but now I'm through it, my speed (at longer distances) is well up.
Little difference between them for the first 20 miles, next 100 swing it toward the Furai, final 100 are strictly Furai only.


----------

