# Identifying old frameset ... maybe Holdsworth ?



## bobg (1 Apr 2011)

I liberated a poor old unloved frame from my LBS recently and have been trying to identify it ever since. A couple of people mention Holdsworth because of the spearpoint lugs etc. I've put some pics here http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawes531/ ( ignore the other old rubbish )

A search for Holdsworth Cyclone came up with this 54 catalogue http://homepage.ntlw...com/nkilgariff/ and everything looks right but the weird "lips" on the top of the seat stays still elude me ??

Any Holdsworth buffs out there??

BTW Sorry the second link only comes up with a title page, to view the 54 catalogue plse select "models", Holdsworth and scroll down to 54 catalogue /Road


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## Baggy (1 Apr 2011)

I'm not an expert, but there are some pics here on Classic Lightweights - looks like a Cyclone to me! A nice find, anyway.


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

Thanks Baggy, nice you you to get back to me. I'm a sucker this old stuff and Classic Lightweights is my bedtime read . Sad or what!!


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

bobg said:


> Thanks Baggy, nice you you to get back to me. I'm a sucker this old stuff and Classic Lightweights is my bedtime read . Sad or what!!


I'm hardly going to agree you're sad as I also love old bikes!

It might be worth dropping Hilary Stone a line, as you probably know he's written a lot for Classic Lightweights and I'm sure will have an idea of exact make and how to date it etc, though it may take him a while to come back to you. He'll also have a load of bits and pieces suitable for your re-build...


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

PS - whatever you do, don't look at the old frames Hilary Stone has for sale


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

Baggy said:


> PS - whatever you do, don't look at the old frames Hilary Stone has for sale



I hate you Baggy  You didn't have to say that.... ( shakes piggy bank and counts pennies)
There are at least 4 that I really must have.

That site was new to me - now bookmarked for late night lusting


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

...well, I did say don't look!  

Given the age and quality of the frames the prices are pretty reasonable, luckily it's fairly rare to see 19/20" ones for sale otherwise my piggy-bank would be in dire straits!

If a Carlton Jewel in my size ever comes up I'm willing to re-mortgage.


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

Hmmm see what you mean !! http://www.hetchins.org/jewel-01.htm


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

Ooh, hadn't seen those pics before


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

Aha - the same bike is on Classic Lightweights but those pics are better. Look at the chrome sparkling inthe sunlight! 

Once you've officially identified your frame are you going to have it repainted etc?


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## oldroadman (2 Apr 2011)

It could be an old Holdsworth but not sure. The lugs look like an old nervex set, which was commonly used in the 60s. So the odds may be that it's a plian gauge tubing monster that weighs a lot and is not very lively. The fork rake and curve points to a touring type frame. Down tube pump pegs are very old so it may even be 50's or earlier. Be OK for a runabout hack, just check inside the seat tube and bracket shell (when you strip it to rebuild the bearings - you are doint that, eren't you!!) for rusting. A bit embarrassing when it crumbles underneath you....


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

Baggy said:


> Aha - the same bike is on Classic Lightweights but those pics are better. Look at the chrome sparkling inthe sunlight!
> 
> Once you've officially identified your frame are you going to have it repainted etc?



I was thinking about it but now I'm cursed with indecision.

Oldroadman has put the mockers on it a bit  ( thanks really, I'm grateful, my enthusiasm needs curbing where bikes are concerned) 

My very first thought was "hack" when I got it home, stripped (it) and weighed it . 7 1/2 lbs seemed and awful lot for 531 or even Kromo. Then I E Bay'd it for an hour and two people suggested Holdsworth so I took it off pending further research.

LBS want £45 for the full bike and apart from the GB stem most of the bits were crap. Shot blast, powdercoat and laqueur =another £35

Big sigh... then you showed me the Hilary Stone site and for a few quid more I'd rather have one of his... not that *need *a 12th bike! 


And wow that Jewel sure shimmers in the sun, I'd never heard of that model till today


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

The decision would be much easier if you knew what it was! There is a bit of info here about frame numbers, which you might already have seen might hold a clue to its identity. 



bobg said:


> My very first thought was "hack" when I got it home, stripped *(it)* and weighed it .


  Glad you clarified that!



bobg said:


> Big sigh... then you showed me the Hilary Stone site and for a few quid more I'd rather have one of his... not that *need *a 12th bike!


Think of it as preserving the UK's cycling heritage for the next generations!  
The Armstrong Moth and Jack Hately are both appealing...



bobg said:


> And wow that Jewel sure shimmers in the sun, I'd never heard of that model till today


Bagpuss is to blame for introducing me to that particular one...I'm a total sucker for chrome and that colour combination is lovely.


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

Jack Hately for me too. Very pretty. Might even be able to afford it if my stem continues on its upward path  

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250793941937&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

BTW no frame number anywhere on the "maybe Holdsworth", Not even on the fork stem. I excavated all over the place with the aid of nitromors for anything else ie name, 531 decals etc. to no avail all the stripped bits are on the side you cant see in the pic


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## Baggy (2 Apr 2011)

bobg said:


> Jack Hately for me too. Very pretty. Might even be able to afford it if my stem continues on its upward path
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MESELXT



You'll be able to afford two at this rate


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## bobg (2 Apr 2011)

....... Just tried to ring Hilary but he's gone to bed......


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## Fab Foodie (2 Apr 2011)

Most points to a 50s Holdsworth, with Nervex lugs, but I'm with you on the fluted seat stays, not seen any quite like that. Having said that, they possibly built lots of non-standard stuff too in those days.
As for 531 plain gauge, it's fine, I've ridden mine since the 80s when I had it resprayed and upgraded the parts and it's a fabulous ride ... over the years the forks have slowly developed a twist  so she's the Turbo mule for the moment, pending a new fork.
Mine's like this:


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## bobg (3 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the info FF, the mystery continues apace... There's a Classic Lightweight Rally at Longridge in May, I might take it with me and see what more I can find out. The 53 catalogue shows a liittle pen drawing in the ad and the both the headset lugs and the fork crown detail seem to be identical. Just found the frame number !! 16621. Its not a standard size (20 3/4 c to t, but the ad says that Holdsworth provide specially ordered smaller machines with a shorter top tube for " the pocket Hercules" .. no special spec for comfortably cushioned old blokes regrettabl.

BTW have you an exact year or yours... the fork crowns changed to ones like yours in 55 by the looks of it.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Apr 2011)

bobg said:


> BTW have you an exact year or yours... the fork crowns changed to ones like yours in 55 by the looks of it.



I don't know exactly, but all the indications are earlyish 50s as you say, maybe '55. The original brakes were Mafac 'Racer' from around that time too.


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## threebikesmcginty (3 Apr 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> I don't know exactly, but all the indications are earlyish 50s as you say, maybe '55. The original brakes were Mafac 'Racer' from around that time too.



Biggest saddlebag in the world alert! Who's in it?


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## Fab Foodie (3 Apr 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Biggest saddlebag in the world alert! Who's in it?




Ssshhhh, it's the one I carry Lord Lucan around in.

It's an old Karrimor and it's totally brilliant, best design I've seen for a large bag. I have a Carradice Camper Longflap and it's pants compared to the Karrimor. It's been very durable as well. We're old friends ....


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## Baggy (3 Apr 2011)

bobg said:


> Thanks for the info FF, the mystery continues apace... There's a Classic Lightweight Rally at Longridge in May, I might take it with me and see what more I can find out.


That sounds like a good idea, just leave your wallet at home! At least you have a frame number to go on now.



Fab Foodie said:


> I don't know exactly, but all the indications are earlyish 50s as you say, maybe '55. The original brakes were Mafac 'Racer' from around that time too.


She's a very dignified looking machine.


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## Zoiders (6 Apr 2011)

I get a creeping feeling that it might actualy be a Hobbs Of Barbican frame.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Apr 2011)

Baggy said:


> She's a very dignified looking machine.



As befits her owner


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## bobg (6 Apr 2011)

Zoiders said:


> I get a creeping feeling that it might actualy be a Hobbs Of Barbican frame.



You cant leave it there Zoiders, expand on your creeping feeling.... Latest info, Gnutti headset Bayliss and Wiley BB


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