# Hybrid vs Road bike



## mr_goosey (18 Nov 2008)

Hi all,

I have my eyes set on the Cannondale Bad Boy 700

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/bad-boy-700-2009-hybrid-bike-ec016536

This will mainly be used for a commute from East to West London, every day (around 8 miles each way). I've never commuted on a bike before and am expecting it to be a challenge.

This bike was recommended to me by a bit of a know-it-all friend, but since reading some posts on here saying road bikes are faster, should I be considering a straight road bike ? Would there really be a speed difference (and hence shorten my overall commute time)? And if so - which would be good, for my needs, in the same kind of price category (700£)?

Thanks in advance!


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## snorri (18 Nov 2008)

You would want mudguards for that price


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## HF2300 (18 Nov 2008)

Ride one before you buy. It's the sort of bike you either love or hate.


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## bonj2 (18 Nov 2008)

mr_goosey said:


> should I be considering a straight road bike ?


Yes, you should be considering it. Not to mean you should be looking at that exclusively and not look any further at the hybrid, but you should definitely _consider_ a road bike.


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## Sittingduck (19 Nov 2008)

Why don't you go for something half the price and see how you get on with commuting by bike? £700 seems a big lump to spend (to me anyway - maybe I am just cheap).

Cheers
SD


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## bonj2 (19 Nov 2008)

yes, you are. £700's not a lot. It's worth spending the extra to get a good bike.
£350 to £700 gives a much bigger jump in quality than, say, £1000 to £1350.


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## mr_goosey (19 Nov 2008)

thx for the replies. I'll be getting the bike on the ride2work scheme so the cost affter discount will be more like 450 if I understand how it works correctly. I am determined to get regular use from it so I'm not worried about buying a bike and finding it's not my thing. What road bikes in a similar price range would be good? I have to admit I am drawn to the badboy because of it's slick looks, I am definitely after something with style as well as function!


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## John the Monkey (19 Nov 2008)

There's scads of stuff in that price bracket, and it tends to be where you start to see nice little extras like carbon forks etc appearing too.

8 miles is quite a nice length for a commute, and it's where I started (I bought a £50 2nd hand road bike, and did it on that - far more fun on my Giant SCR2.0 though  )

Hybrid is a very wide term, covering everything from what are essentially mountain bikes with road tyres (tough frames, strong 26" wheels, fat (but slick, or semi slick tyres and low gearing) through to bikes that are pretty much racing bikes with flat bars. Have a think about what you want to do with the bike (and be honest with yourself - I see far too many people lugging around the extra weight of suspension etc that they'll never use). 

A drop bar bike will give you more hand positions on the bars, and you can get into the drops in a headwind etc. They tend toward higher gearing and lighter frames too. 

The best bet is to test ride a few bikes, and see what feels right.


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## HLaB (19 Nov 2008)

Just another one to think about is the flat bar road bike, a colleague just got the Marin Fairfax through a cycle scheme and IMO it looks good (its got a 52t chainring what I like) and there's plenty of other bikes of this type the Spesh Sirrus, Cannondale Synapse and Ridgeback T1 and Flight spring to mind. I've got/had a flat bar Specialized Sirrus (another bike of this type) and love it. It performed just as well as a dropped bar, perhaps even better in perfect conditions and traffic and over a shorter distance; its 52t chainring allows for great acceleration/ speed, the new ones don't have this ring! That being said I've converted it to a drop bar bike and love it even more.


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## jimboalee (19 Nov 2008)

If the Road bike and the Bad Boy are comparative weight, there is no reason you can't ride the Bad Boy as fast as a road bike.

Two bikes the same weight and similar riding position will be as fast as its engines can move it.


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## swee'pea99 (19 Nov 2008)

bonj said:


> £700's not a lot.


Yes it is.


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## jimboalee (19 Nov 2008)

£700 = 15 tanks of gas or 1 year's motor insurance for an under 25 year old + 1 year's road fund.

It is also 7 months rail season tickets from Solihull to Leamington Spa ( my commute ).

A £700 bike plus all the clothing and kit to get me to work would just scrape £1000. That is what Chiltern trains want for a 12 month season ticket.

The bike is the 'low cost option'. Always has been.


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## mr_goosey (19 Nov 2008)

Just to clarify, I'll be getting a discount on the bike...so will cost me a fair amount less than £700. And I currently spend around £30 a week on the tube.


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## jay clock (19 Nov 2008)

I have a Cannondale MTB with the headshock. It is great to be able to switch off the suspension when needed, partic uphill. And the Bad Boy does look great.

I also have a tourer, 2 road bikes a folder, and the bike I would recommend you look at which is the Carrera Subway 1 from Halfords. A superb commuter bike, well under £200, space for rack and mudguards, and whizzes along fine. I have had mine for 4 years and love it for the "do anything" cycling. To be fair I have changed the drivetrain and wheels but I have still spent tons under £700.


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## swee'pea99 (19 Nov 2008)

Can't speak for the subway, tho' I've seen other compliments in the past - I'm a died-in-the-wool racer fan - but one thing: they come up all the time on ebay (not surprisingly). £100 should get you a good one. 

Oh, and I agree with all comments re comparative costs of cycling v alternatives: one of the main reasons I began cycling. But I still say £700 is a lot. A bit of effort and a bit of homework will get you a damn good bike for a helluva lot less than that.


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## bonj2 (19 Nov 2008)

mr_goosey said:


> Just to clarify, I'll be getting a discount on the bike...so will cost me a fair amount less than £700. And I currently spend around £30 a week on the tube.



you can spend up to a grand, so you should spend the full grand. The more you spend the more free bike you are getting given by the government.


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## Tynan (20 Nov 2008)

I've come slowly through commuting on mtb, hybrid, good hybrid and now road bike, relaxed audaxey one anyway and the road bike is best

there's no doubt that it's quicker, in drops anyway, headwind is what used to really irritate me, drops make that far more bearable, roadie means you're liable to have thinner harder tyres and that's good for speed

I've still got full guard, a rack and a pannier and no end of lights

a road bike seems a bit advanced and scary at first but an hour's riding solves that and then you wonder how you'd ever been happy riding anything else

my opinion anyway, ride both types as others have set but don;t be put off by the road bike feeling twitchy and 'unsafe', your body just has to get used to it, I suspect a hybrid would feel like a tank to me now


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## Randochap (20 Nov 2008)

*A common myth*



Tynan said:


> roadie means you're liable to have thinner harder tyres and that's good for speed



This is a common misconception -- one that I held until recently -- that has held sway for too long.

_"Wider tires roll easier, yield higher mileage and offer more comfort and grip." _

This is Continental tyre speaking, not me. They make this statement on their website for 2009. They do so because even the pro peloton is realizing the advantages.

The fact is that unless you are riding steel rollers (on which most rolling resistance tests are performed) a wider tyre with lower pressure will perform much better. In the real world -- that is, on uneven, poorly-maintained roads -- the wider, lower-pressure tyre rolls over irregularities, whereas the very high pressure tyre bounces around and actually slows progress, not to mention providing a very uncomfortable ride. The other factor is contact area. Wider tyres have a smaller contact area than narrower tyres, providing less resistance, yet, as I've mentioned above, absorbing and rolling over bumps. The advantage is particularly noticed on surfaces like dreaded chip-seal!

Of course, not all tyres are created equal and choice of construction -- casing, thread count, rubber and belt materials -- will maximise or interfere with base characteristics.

It may be hard to get one's head around these facts and some will refuse in the face of all evidence, but once you've tried it, there's no going back.

This bike is for me now my favourite all-round ride .. and I have all ends of the spectrum to choose from. I have even had a lightweight "event bike" built to accomodate tyres 28mm and above.

Schwalbe has also recently added to the widening knowledge that comfort and speed are not mutually exclusive.

As far as the OP's original question: go with practicality over bling factor. If you might consider touring later, get a touring bike now. Touring bikes are the all-rounder (and will fit bigger tyres). If you just plan to city commute, then the "hybrid" might be better ... but don't get one of the silly things that can't make its mind up whether it wants to race or navigate the potholed streets of the city. To my mind, those are mutually exclusive characteristics.


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## Chris James (21 Nov 2008)

Quoted from your Schwalbe link:

'Why do Pros ride narrow tires if wide tires roll better?

Wide tires only roll better at the same inflation pressure, but narrow tires can be inflated to higher pressures than wide tires. However, they then obviously give a less comfortable ride.

In addition to this, narrow tires have an advantage over wide ones at higher speeds, as they provide less air resistance.

Above all, a bicycle with narrow tires is much easier to accelerate because the rotating mass of the wheels is lower and the bicycle is much more agile.'

Basically it is a trade off, but I agree that fatter tyres give a plusher ride and can still roll well.


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## Tynan (21 Nov 2008)

The roads I ride are terrible, I've got 23s at 100psi and I wouldn't say it was 'a very uncomfortable ride'

what CJ said


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## Randochap (21 Nov 2008)

Tynan said:


> The roads I ride are terrible, I've got 23s at 100psi and I wouldn't say it was 'a very uncomfortable ride'
> 
> what CJ said



And you are comparing them to ...?


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## Randochap (21 Nov 2008)

Chris James said:


> Quoted from your Schwalbe link:
> 
> 'Why do Pros ride narrow tires if wide tires roll better?
> 
> ...



You cut the key conclussion: "In practice, the energy saving is even greater than in theory as the elasticity of the tires absorbs road shocks, which would otherwise be transferred to the rider and so saves energy."

All the other stuff only works if the road surface is good; when you're on anything but the smoothest ashphalt, all the "advantages" of a narrow, high-pressure tyre go out the window and the advantages of big -- I mean really big -- tires come into play. Given the already huge advantage of the smaller contact patch, the other virtues come to the forefront very quickly.

Let me give you a real world example: I love to turn up for our Wednesday group ride (as I did yesterday) on my 650b reproduction randonneuse. I run the Grand Bois "Hetre" (a Japanese copy of the typical French demi balloon tyre of the 1930s) which is a whopping 42mm! I run them at 60psi. The best evidence of their performance is on a long downhill on a very bumpy stretch of country road, paved with chip-seal. The group (about 15 yesterday) crests the hill and tucks. Because I'm the lightest of the group, at 130lbs, that's where I'm commonly left behind on my skinny-tyred (23mm) 700c bikes. Not on the Hetres. I have been known to pass the heaviest member of the group, who is well over 200lbs. Not only that, but my bike is silently gliding down the road, while everyone else is having their fillings rattled out.

I would have disputed these claims myself a couple of years ago, but they are verifiable facts, not theories, and in any case, we are advising someone who plans on becoming a commuter, not a racer trying to shave a second off a track record.

But don't take my word,(or Coninental's or, Schwalbe's or Bicycle Quarterly's) try it yourself -- with the proviso that all tyres are not created equal. A crap casing will ride harsh at any width.


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## J4CKO (23 Nov 2008)

Hi, I have had the Bad Boy 700 for six months, I do a seven mile each way commute most days, observations,

I changed the stem, sure the riding position looks great but it hurts the wrists and you end up bent over, had to get a shorter, angled stem even for my Large size one, common complaint.

As for looking cool, yes, but when fully spammed up with lights, mudguards, panniers etc it doesn't look quite as funky.

You dont need a disk specific rack, I bought one as that what the LBS told me I needed but a normal would be fine, fitted it anyway, however I had to make brackets to attach it to the downtubes out of old reflector brackets as it does not have the lugs.

It is a hard ride, no give in the frame whatsover as its very strong and stiff.

The pedals are crap, flogged them for £40 on Ebay and bought some SPD's

It is quite fast, I know that is dependant on the rider mainly but it does seem to convert more effort into forward motion than my old steel racer.

Brakes, I swapped my Hope Mono Mini's onto it from my MTB as to be honest the Avid Juicy threes aint that good, lever went almost to the bars and the bike shop said thats typical of them.

Drivertrain, Sram gears very good, reliable shifting but I am getting a click from the crank area, not sure if its the bottom bracket or pedals.

Wheels, quite strong but I seem to have buckled my back one on the bit off off road I do.

Seat, owww, ok now I have a Gel Cover.

I will treat it like I do a mobile phone, run it until my Cycle to Work scheme is finished and then go for a brand new one, £20 a month is nothing and the pull of a brand new bike will be too much, I think I will go for an Audax racer type next, something a bit comfier than the Bad Boy.


All in all its a good bike but its set up more for looks that day to day comfort, you will need to make changes to make it easier to live with if you use it everyday.


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## pinkkaz (25 Nov 2008)

Hello, I got a hybrid on the cycle to work scheme in April, and although it is a good bike, I do wish I'd gone for something lighter and faster. In April I'll definitely be getting a new bike, and I think I'll go for a tourer - either a Ridgeback Panorama (http://www.evanscycles.com/products/ridgeback/panorama-2009-touring-bike-ec017049) or a Super Galaxy.


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## ed_o_brain (26 Nov 2008)

jimboalee said:


> If the Road bike and the Bad Boy are comparative weight, there is no reason you can't ride the Bad Boy as fast as a road bike.
> 
> Two bikes the same weight and similar riding position will be as fast as its engines can move it.



Sorry to disagree. The acceleration might be the same, but drop handle bars will mean you can get your back horizontal (not bum up in the air) and that makes things easier once you head up towards 20 mph.

But the main advantage of dropped handle bars for commuting, I find, is being able to get down out of a headwind or cross wind. If you intend to use the bike for any other longer rides, the drops will give more hand/body positions and will probably help with comfort.

You can go some way to that tho by adding bar ends. You might even want to consider butterfly handle bars.




And a note on tyres, wider tyres tend to be heavier than narrower ones. So that's more rotating mass. That's harder to get going and slows acceleration. It's not really possible to judge tyres just by size. They need considering as a whole package:
- width
- ride comfort
- grip
- puncture resistence
- life expectancy

What works best for you varies by bike, riding style, road conditions. It really is a very personal thing. 



I've got a 90s rigid Cannondale MTB which I've just added slick tyres too. I'm adding a rack and mudguards. It's very light (for a commuter/hybrid), is not as overly attractive to thieves as your badboy will be, and has the virtue of not being like nearly every other commuter bike out there! (Matt black bikes seem to be really common lately!)


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## jack the lad (26 Nov 2008)

This is about getting the right tool to do a job. Style is very important in my book, but only if it doesn't compromise a function that I can't live without. For £700 you have a lot of choice, even at Evans. There is no one right answer, it's all a trade off and a question of finding the right compromise for you. All other things being equal go for the one that feels most 'right'.

The hybrid vs road bike question is a bit too simplistic. You can get virtually the same bike of any type with either drop bars (a road bike) or with flat bars (a hybrid). Either could be a minimalist lightweight job with no provision for racks, mudguards etc or a heavier duty fatter tyred tourer type with either 26 inch or 700c tyres. 

For any particular type of bike the only real difference will be the riding position. Drop bars may more aerodynamic (but not much if you ride mostly on the tops), flat bars probably give you better vision, control and braking in traffic. You don't want a flat back riding position if you'll be carrying a rucksack. I get neck ache with drops and numb hands with flats, so can't win either way, you might suffer with neither. 

A light 700c racer (flat or drop) might take less effort to pedal, but might be more prone to p*nctures and you'll get wetter when the road is damp. If you want to fit a rack and/or mudguards make sure there are fittings for them and include the cost in your B2W application. 26 inch wheels are more manoueveable for weaving round traffic and stronger. Disc brakes add weight but don't wear out rims and (good ones) give more control. 

The best upgrade you could make for urban commuting is to fit a tough p*ncture resitant tyre like a Schwalbe Marathon Plus. Avoiding delays to fix flats will save you more critical time than making an extra 1/10th second between the lights. Tough tyres are relatively heavy (so no point in shaving grams from the bike weight) and not available in racer sizes anyway.

If I lived and commuted in a city I would get a Schwinn type American Cruiser style bike with no gears, just a rear coaster brake, swept back bullhorn bars, fat tyres, big chrome mudguards and a sofa to sit on. Slow down and take life easy...


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## tyred (26 Nov 2008)

jack the lad said:


> If I lived and commuted in a city I would get a Schwinn type American Cruiser style bike with no gears, just a rear coaster brake, swept back bullhorn bars, fat tyres, big chrome mudguards and a sofa to sit on. Slow down and take life easy...



A man after my own heart but make mine a three speed Raleigh


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## mr_goosey (26 Nov 2008)

Thanks for all your advice, much appreciated!. I will have to visit Evans and test ride a few. Shame that you think the bad boy has some problems, I had kind of settled on that. I was looking through the road bikes that Evans have <£700 and didn't like the look of any of them (apart from some of the fixed gear ones, and I'm not sure I can handle that!)


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## Bugner (28 Nov 2008)

I had the same dilemma when getting a bike via the scheme for 12 mile each way commute. Ended up buying the Specialized Tricross (Cyclocross Bike) Bit more robust than a road bike miles lighter than a mountain bike. It also has what is sometimes known as 'sissy brake levers' on the main hadlebar as well as the standard drop handlebar brakes if it takes you a while to get used to the drops, but to be honest a lot of the time I have my hands on the hoods anyway. I love it!! Great bike!!


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## Funtboy (28 Nov 2008)

mr_goosey said:


> Thanks for all your advice, much appreciated!. I will have to visit Evans and test ride a few. Shame that you think the bad boy has some problems, I had kind of settled on that. I was looking through the road bikes that Evans have <£700 and didn't like the look of any of them (apart from some of the fixed gear ones, and I'm not sure I can handle that!)



Get this one. It's lush....

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gary-fisher/mendora-2009-hybrid-bike-ec017198


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## Lazy-Commuter (28 Nov 2008)

Bugner said:


> I had the same dilemma when getting a bike via the scheme for 12 mile each way commute. Ended up buying the Specialized Tricross (Cyclocross Bike) Bit more robust than a road bike miles lighter than a mountain bike. It also has what is sometimes known as 'sissy brake levers' on the main hadlebar as well as the standard drop handlebar brakes if it takes you a while to get used to the drops, but to be honest a lot of the time I have my hands on the hoods anyway. I love it!! Great bike!!


I'm debating the merits of a Cyclocross bike for my commute, not that I will be in a position to buy a new one for some time. 

I currently commute on a basic MTB (Giant Rincon) which I have "hybridised" with narrower, smoother tyres and a few other bits and bobs. My rationale behind getting that bike was that I never really intended to commute by bike: I was mainly going to plod about on trails and so on with the kids. However, I am now an "every day" commuter.

The bike does actually _quite _suit my commute because a fair chunk of it is off road: through woods, across a couple of fields, down a (not too badly surfaced) bridleway, round a lake if the fancy takes me and so on. Having said that, there's quite a bit of road work too. So I'm always going to be compromised .. it's just a case of which way I bias it, I guess.

Does anyone else have experiences of commuting by cyclo-cross .. it clearly suits Bugner.


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## jimboalee (28 Nov 2008)

When selecting a bike to commute and Audax, I set some MINIMUM requirements.

1/ Shimano Tiagra or better - not those silly Sora triggers.
2/ Dropped bars.
3/ Stainless spokes.
4/ AHead set.
5/ Tripple chainset.
6/ Mudguard clearance.
7/ Less than £500.

With this, I scoured the market and arived at the Dawes Giro 500.
It ticked all the boxes and was from my old friends at Castle Bromwich.


My advice is to set a list of MINIMUM requirements and a price limit.
Surf and draw up a short list.
Then go by looks.


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## Lazy-Commuter (1 Dec 2008)

Thanks Jimbo; top advice .. for _any _major purchase, not just a new bike.

I tend to work with a list of requirements, anyway, and then research what fits the bill. Having done the commute for almost a year I have a far better idea of what I need .. and of course the use I'm putting the bike to doesn't fit my earlier expectations.

Mrs-LC did comment the other day that, "you'll be wearing that one out and wanting a new one". Which is promising. I suspect it will have to do me another year, though .. unless we find I can get rid of my car. Tempting.

Still, gives me plenty of time to explore what I want, and go to lots of shops for test rides. It's a fun dilemma to be in.


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