# Leg Fatigue



## scaryant (9 Jul 2009)

Hi,

I've begun riding to lose weight and get fit in the last couple of months - so far so good.

Unfortunately I seem to be suffering some fatigue in my legs which is a real pain (literally) as it's limiting the effort I can put in and therefore cal burn I get from my rides.

I used to ride quite a bit back home and never really took it up here (London) due to weather and traffic - but with summer (and getting married at the end of the year) I thought it was a good opportunity to get started (again!). 

I started on short rides about 2 months ago (6km/3miles) basically to and from work to regain cardio fitness. Then 3 weeks ago I clocked up a 215 km week (7x30km per day) after that I've felt leg fatigue creep in. My range is dropping and average speed is suffering.

I'm getting a burn in my quads and gluts when effort is applied (eg uphill, driving hard, over rough terrain) and it almost feels like my legs are heavy, no fuel, no power. 

I'm thinking this is normal given I've gone from zero exercise to lots of riding - but should/can I be doing something to combat this?

I've only be having one rest day, should I rest my legs more? Am I not fuelling myself properly? Should I eat more protein (shakes maybe)?

Thanks!


----------



## walker (9 Jul 2009)

Your problem could lie in tight muscles. you need to be stretching them off more. especially your hip flexors (google hip flexor stretch or ask someone that will know how to do it properly). there is a lot of lactic acid forming in your muscles and the body is strugglingto cope with it and to distribute it. your body will get used to it in time. Are you getting enough carbohydrates in yor diet with the extended cycling? you could be under fueling and the body is having to break down muscle and fat to make your energy requirements which in turn take energy to do and on the bike this isn't easy. you need to be taking your weight in KG x 5.5 to equal the amount of carbs your going to need for your workouts.


----------



## scaryant (9 Jul 2009)

Hi,

Thanks for the advice on stretching, I'm not doing any after riding - it's a good idea and doesn't take long to do a few minutes of lower body stretches, I'll add that as a PWO warm down.

I'm working on a calorie controlled diet (ie less in more out) and not really worried about having carbs, I've made the mistake of trying to train cardio on no carbs before! As a result I'm having a balanced diet and taking in a decent amount of carbs, probably 50-60% at a rough guess.

After my morning ride I'm having a small bowl of porridge then muesli bars and apples as snacks and controlled amounts of rice or other complex carbs (brown rice, potato) for dinner after riding. Other carbs include high fibre type stuff, kidney beans, broad beans, chick peas, etc.

So, I don't think energy is a problem - I can cruise at 20-23 kmph quite comfortably on the flat for 20km. But as soon as I start driving and maintaining 25-30 kmph the burn kicks in, something that wasn't happening before my 215 km week.

Thanks again.


----------



## I am Spartacus (9 Jul 2009)

On the face of it.. I would just continue through this...
Unless you're injured.. feeling totally crap etc etc.. then you are probably putting in more effort into your riding .. hence tired legs.. but on the distance your are covering... then you dont even need a rest day.. just an 'easy ride ' day on a regular basis.
DONT anyone mention overtraining syndrome!!!
You have been warned


----------



## ASC1951 (9 Jul 2009)

scaryant said:


> After my morning ride I'm having a small bowl of porridge then muesli bars and apples as snacks and controlled amounts of rice or other complex carbs (brown rice, potato) for dinner after riding. Other carbs include high fibre type stuff, kidney beans, broad beans, chick peas, etc.


Yes, it does seem a bit light on protein - mainly what's in the beans. You can go for whey protein, but that always strikes me as a bit 'minerals and supplements'. Just add the odd bit of fish or chicken.

A 215k week will take some recovering from, if your normal ride is only 6k. Drop the mileage and have a few days off. Try some swimming or running.


----------



## I am Spartacus (9 Jul 2009)

ASC1951 said:


> A 215k week will take some recovering from, i



get out of town.. the OP said that was weeks ago .. if that were true .. he'd be on literally on his knees by now

some of you lot are toooooo soft


----------



## maurice (10 Jul 2009)

Sounds like you should be upping your rest days to two a week. You can't train well if you're always feeling tired. 

Also are you eating well enough to cope with all the extra exercise? You should be eating way more than you used to.


----------



## jimboalee (10 Jul 2009)

walker said:


> Your problem could lie in tight muscles. you need to be stretching them off more. especially your hip flexors (google hip flexor stretch or ask someone that will know how to do it properly). there is a lot of lactic acid forming in your muscles and the body is strugglingto cope with it and to distribute it. your body will get used to it in time. Are you getting enough carbohydrates in yor diet with the extended cycling? you could be under fueling and the body is having to break down muscle and fat to make your energy requirements which in turn take energy to do and on the bike this isn't easy. you need to be taking *your weight in KG x 5.5 to equal the amount of carbs your going to need for your workouts*.



?
We sorted out yesterday after much joviality that WORK consists of two elements.
1/ moving mass vertically upward against gravity
2/ moving air out of the way of a moving object.

All exercise can be mathematically modelled to give a close estimation of the WORK involved, which can be converted into kCals.

Depending upon the intensity of the work, a proportion of the energy is taken from either fat or carbs in the bloodstream.

On a bike where you do not want to bonk or start muscle depletion, the ammount of carbs to replace is the proportion of the fuel accridited to carbs during the work.

On a leisurely ride where the Heart rate is about 75% max, approx three quarters of the energy is taken from carbs in the bloodstream in the form of glycogen. (It is very close to linear, but not exactly.)
As intensity increases to almost maximum heart rate, the percentage rises to 100% glycogen.

Getting fit, losing fat weight, building muscle and STAYING energised is a VERY fine balance.
It requires a qualified personal trainer.


----------



## I am Spartacus (10 Jul 2009)

walker said:


> there is a lot of lactic acid forming in your muscles and the body is strugglingto cope with it



thats tosh , sorry


----------



## jimboalee (10 Jul 2009)

jimboalee said:


> ?
> We sorted out yesterday after much joviality that WORK consists of two elements.
> 1/ moving mass vertically upward against gravity
> 2/ moving *air *out of the way of a moving object.
> ...



I'll correct this for the pedants out there.

2/ moving *Fluid *out of the way of a moving object.

There will be some swimmers in the crowd.


----------



## walker (10 Jul 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> thats tosh , sorry



And you would know why?


----------



## montage (14 Jul 2009)

> I'm getting a burn in my quads and gluts when effort is applied (eg uphill, driving hard, over rough terrain) and it almost feels like my legs are heavy, no fuel, no power



umm....
Your legs hurt when you put in extra effort?....sounds normal to me.

Congratulations on the weight loss


----------



## DaveM (16 Jul 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> thats tosh , sorry



Can you elaborate on your comment please


----------



## I am Spartacus (17 Jul 2009)

walker said:


> And you would know why?



I have a deep seated desire to read around a subject and understand fundamentals of human physiology especially in connection with exercise and fitness.



DaveM said:


> Can you elaborate on your comment please



tbh there are more succinct resources freely available that explains the relationship between exercise and lactate and lactic acidosis, much better than my attempts.

Just to underline that lactic acid is NOT the cause of muscle fatigue... I agree that this is still an area of contention, but there are now a whole battalion of possible agents that contribute to the feeling of heavy/dead legs.

Just bringing out the mantra of 'it's lactic acid' is pure simplification of a highly complicated process.

... and it don't cause muscle soreness either...

back to the OP.. he still needs to maintain building and improving base aerobic fitness. The rest will follow suit in due course as appropriate to his aims.


----------



## scaryant (29 Jul 2009)

Just wanted to come back and thank all. I gave myself a couple of extra rest days, did some stretches and then pushed through this. My performance is much better now, I've increased on distance covered per cycle, previously diificult hill climbs are much easier (no pain) and I'm hitting them at 30 kph now rather than 20-25 kph. Average speed is also up - even over the longer distances.

Thanks again.


----------



## Jim_Noir (29 Jul 2009)

pain is just waekness leaving the body, get your blood pumping and feel the burn


----------



## Bigboy (4 Aug 2009)

I know there are loads of scientific answers floating about over the last 2 pages but i get like this when i haven't eaten/drank enough. I know you are doing it to lose a bit of weight but cant remember if you said you were dieting too. maybe just as simple as there aint enough quality fuel goin in to get the results out.


----------



## Fab Foodie (4 Aug 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> I have a deep seated desire to read around a subject and understand fundamentals of human physiology especially in connection with exercise and fitness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the theory say's that Lactic acid is undesirable in muscle tissue and is readily oxidised (broken down to yield energy) as soon as sufficient Oxygen levels/flow return to change the tissue from anaerobic to aerobic conditions. The thought that it somehow sits around for hours in the muscle at any appreciable concentration is I think is a myth that's being debunked.

Lacic acid build-up in the muscle is a good thing after death however as it aids rigor-mortise and tenderising of the muscle... yum!


----------



## jimboalee (5 Aug 2009)

Fab Foodie said:


> I think the theory say's that Lactic acid is undesirable in muscle tissue and is readily oxidised (broken down to yield energy) as soon as sufficient Oxygen levels/flow return to change the tissue from anaerobic to aerobic conditions. The thought that it somehow sits around for hours in the muscle at any appreciable concentration is I think is a myth that's being debunked.
> 
> Lacic acid build-up in the muscle is a good thing after death however as it aids rigor-mortise and tenderising of the muscle... yum!



Lactic acid is dispersed into the body just about as fast as your circulatory system can get it out of the muscle.
If there is good circulatory blood flow, the lactic acid is taken away and eventually converted back into ATP.

Lactic acid will continue to be produced as long as the muscles operate in an anaerobic condition, but as soon as aerobic exercise is regained, the lactic acid is taken away pretty quickly.

FF +1

If there is still a 'burn' after an hour, it is a sign of complete un-fitness.
Do not confuse this with the pain from damage incurred during exercise beyond the muscle's capability.

Training at this level is best done with a personal fitness instructor in attendance.


----------



## Fab Foodie (5 Aug 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Lactic acid is dispersed into the body just about as fast as your circulatory system can get it out of the muscle.
> If there is good circulatory blood flow, the lactic acid is taken away and eventually converted back into ATP.
> 
> Lactic acid will continue to be produced as long as the muscles operate in an anaerobic condition, but as soon as aerobic exercise is regained, the lactic acid is taken away pretty quickly.
> ...



Yay Jimbo! Agreement!

Cheers
FF


----------



## numbnuts (5 Aug 2009)

> Originally Posted by *jimboalee*
> 
> 
> _Lactic acid is dispersed into the body just about as fast as your circulatory system can get it out of the muscle.
> ...




I suffer with lactic acid as I have emphysema and low iron levels, the iron in the blood helps to carry oxygen around the body and with emphysema I'm not getting all the oxygen I need so I have a double whammy


----------



## lukesdad (6 Aug 2009)

I do mega miles each month and from experience ( not theory all though Ive read a lot of it) Fatigue in my case usually boils down to 2 Fundamentals 1. muscle fatigue-inssuficient stretching or lack of warming up/down.2. General fatigue (lethargy)-dehydration,normally not enough fluid usually in time when not riding.


----------



## jimboalee (6 Aug 2009)

Fab Foodie said:


> Yay Jimbo! Agreement!
> 
> Cheers
> FF



Human physiology is human physiology.

The argument is whether it was spontaneously created, redesigned through intervention or came about by natural selection.


----------

