# Raleigh bikes. BBC4 Wed 21:00



## GuyBoden (14 Mar 2017)

Raleigh Bikes on BBC4 Wed 15th March at 21:00.

Essential viewing for the old and young British cyclist.

"Born in the back streets of Nottingham in 1888, Raleigh grew to become the biggest bicycle manufacturer in the world. For over a century, the company was known for its simple and practical bikes, built to last a lifetime. For generations, its designs were thought second to none, enjoyed by adults and children alike.

Now, with wonderful personal testimony and rare and previously unseen archive film, this documentary tells the extraordinary tale of the ups and downs of Raleigh bikes - a beautifully illustrated story full of remarkable characters, epic adventures and memorable bikes."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08j8mvl


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## johnnyb47 (14 Mar 2017)

Cheers buddy for the heads up on this. I've just set it to record :-)


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## Alan O (14 Mar 2017)

Thanks - definitely one to watch.


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## cubey (14 Mar 2017)




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## Richard A Thackeray (14 Mar 2017)

Ditto

If it's half as interesting as some of the TimeWatch programmes, such as the one about OS mapping, it'll be excellent


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## Reynard (14 Mar 2017)

I'll grab it on i-player after the footy.


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## HLaB (14 Mar 2017)

I'll try and remember or catch it on iPlayer


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## Nigel182 (15 Mar 2017)

Tivo Box set


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## woodbutcher (15 Mar 2017)

GuyBoden said:


> Raleigh Bikes on BBC4 Wed 15th March at 21:00.
> 
> Essential viewing for the old and young British cyclist.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link.....l can get UK television here in France so its a definite for tonight !


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## Alan O (15 Mar 2017)

Are we all sitting comfortably?


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## iwantanewbike (15 Mar 2017)

All I can tell is, that back in that era people spoke properly and worked a lot harder that today


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## subaqua (15 Mar 2017)

Fookin ell it's Wolverines Grandad !


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## subaqua (15 Mar 2017)

Andy Ruffell has piled the pounds on ! 

Heroes change don't they !


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## I like Skol (15 Mar 2017)

Excellent, I know what I am riding on the school run tomorrow....


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## GGJ (15 Mar 2017)

Enjoyed that, thanks for the post


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## Domus (15 Mar 2017)

Huddersfield to Rhyl at 10 years old, then back home the next day. Fantastic


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## Gez73 (15 Mar 2017)

Great programme that. The black and white feature on how a bike is made is on youtube. Has been mentioned on here before. Loved those sideburns too. Gez


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## rozzer1971 (15 Mar 2017)

Can't believe they said a Grifter was "like a BMX", they were 35lbs !  The only way to 'get air' with one was to let it out of the tyres....


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## Drago (15 Mar 2017)

A Grifter was like a BMX if you hid it behind a life size poster of a BMX.


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## Dave Davenport (15 Mar 2017)

I did like that programme.


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## subaqua (15 Mar 2017)

rozzer1971 said:


> Can't believe they said a Grifter was "like a BMX", they were 35lbs !  The only way to 'get air' with one was to let it out of the tyres....


You didn't live in Wales next to a clay pit ! 

That was a regular occurrence . I nearly broke neck going down a near vertical drop and off a ramp at the bottom. 

I looked at it with my kids a few months ago and wondered why I had. I told my boy (9) what I used to do and he said " daddy, I know I shouldn't use this word , but that's just f**king stupid"


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## Alan O (15 Mar 2017)

That was a great programme - I've seen some of those old films before, like the clips from the CTC ride.

It settles which bike I'm going to ride on this weekend - my Raleigh Royal tourer.


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## rozzer1971 (15 Mar 2017)

The Factory tour is on Youtube 


View: https://youtu.be/FaxRQh03BOw


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## Flyboy (16 Mar 2017)

A must watch , 100 mile ride at the age of 10 , then back the next day riding a bone shaker amazing.


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## I like Skol (16 Mar 2017)

Flyboy said:


> A must watch , 100 mile ride at the age of 10 , then back the next day riding a bone shaker amazing.


Yes, and her dad wore a suit and tie. I must try harder on the style front when riding my bike.....


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## snorri (16 Mar 2017)

Worth watching for the hairstyle alone, you know the one I mean


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## Haitch (16 Mar 2017)

rozzer1971 said:


> The Factory tour is on Youtube
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/FaxRQh03BOw




Raleigh Street in Nottingham? Used to live opposite the factory site. We were told the company was named after the street, and not the street after the company. Does anyone know if that is true?


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## GGJ (16 Mar 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Yes, and her dad wore a suit and tie. I must try harder on the style front when riding my bike.....



I always wear my kilt when I'm out cycling... Sorry no pictures available


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## rozzer1971 (16 Mar 2017)

snorri said:


> Worth watching for the hairstyle alone, you know the one I mean



The Wolverine audition you mean ?


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## Johnno260 (16 Mar 2017)

Loved this show, Grifter and BMX can't be mentioned in the same sentence, those things weighed a ton...literally I think! haha

Loved seeing the Chopper I loved mine.

Raleigh Burner my 2nd BMX after my Piranaha, I loved my Burner that thing was utterly in-destructible, kids with other bikes used to take the mickey out of my Burner but I loved it, it so many good memories and summers spent on that bike.

Raleigh Activator my 2nd MTB after my Raleigh Mustang, I didn't like the Mustang but I loved the Activator shame it was stolen, people at the leisure centre watched a white van pull up and use bolt cutters on my bike chain, I went mental I was heart broken as I had saved for months to get it, I did get it returned, but it had been destroyed, it was the last Raleigh I owned.


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## Archeress (16 Mar 2017)

This program made me regret selling my old Raleigh Scorpio a few years back. Bought in '95 it would have been among the last of the Nottingham bikes. 

Hugs
Archeress x


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## Fenrider (16 Mar 2017)

Thanks for the alert - downloading it from iPlayer now......


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## Blue Hills (16 Mar 2017)

Haitch said:


> Raleigh Street in Nottingham? Used to live opposite the factory site. We were told the company was named after the street, and not the street after the company. Does anyone know if that is true?


I'm assuming the prog did its research. I had always assumed that the street was named after the company. Since it appears to have been the other way round, the company struck pretty lucky. Lots of other street names adopted would have sounded damn odd.


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## Haitch (16 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I'm assuming the prog did its research. I had always assumed that the street was named after the company. Since it appears to have been the other way round, the company struck pretty lucky. Lots of other street names adopted would have sounded damn odd.



Erm, the landlord told us the company was named after the street. I couldn't watch the programme so can't comment on the quality of its research.


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## flake99please (16 Mar 2017)

Just watched it on iPlayer. I enjoyed seeing one of my old cycling routes near mkt harboro in one of the videos. It hasn't changed at all since that film was recorded.


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## Spiderweb (16 Mar 2017)

What about the Lady riding Lands End to John O'Groats in 2 days 11 hours on a Hercules!


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## Alembicbassman (16 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I'm assuming the prog did its research. I had always assumed that the street was named after the company. Since it appears to have been the other way round, the company struck pretty lucky. Lots of other street names adopted would have sounded damn odd.



Fanny Chopper


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## Blue Hills (16 Mar 2017)

Spiderweb said:


> What about the Lady riding Lands End to John O'Groats in 2 days 11 hours on a Hercules!


Very impressive for sure but apparently it wasn't a Hercules. Clearly a long tradition of things not always being what they seem in sports cycling. I read this after the prog but had a feeling watching it that there was a bit of mischief going on. She also implied, with a bit of a twinkle in her eye, that riding a Hercules didn't necessarily put a smile on your face.
An amazing feat riding whatever.


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## robgul (16 Mar 2017)

Spiderweb said:


> What about the Lady riding Lands End to John O'Groats in 2 days 11 hours on a Hercules!



I met this lady at a bash at Coventry Transport Museum about 10 or 12 years ago when she opened a new cycle section - absolutely tiny!

The "Hercules" wasn't - like many of the pros they rode bikes that suited them but were re-badged for their team/sponsor (IIRC Tom Simpson didn't ride an actual Peuegot machine)

Rob


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## Blue Hills (16 Mar 2017)

Hi rob

Can you confirm that the bike in that museum is the one she rode in the record ride?

I plan to visit it in a few weeks.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Very impressive for sure but apparently it wasn't a Hercules. Clearly a long tradition of things not always being what they seem in sports cycling. I read this after the prog but had a feeling watching it that there was a bit of mischief going on. She also implied, with a bit of a twinkle in her eye, that riding a Hercules didn't necessarily put a smile on your face.
> An amazing feat riding whatever.


The Hercules cycling team that rode the 1955 Tour de France had frames made by someone else but spayed and badged in their own factory colours. I think the frames they used were made in Italy.


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## Justinslow (16 Mar 2017)

Enjoyed that, but, bikes declined as cars increased yet the British car industry also collapsed. Sad.


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## Blue Hills (16 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> The Hercules cycling team that rode the 1955 Tour de France had frames made by someone else but spayed and badged in their own factory colours. I think the frames they used were made in Italy.


Be interesting to know if folk at the time were aware of what i can only call deception. And if so, whether there was any public comment.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Be interesting to know if folk at the time were aware of what i can only call deception. And if so, whether there was any public comment.


The public were never meant to be aware of it as the sponsors wanted to give the impression their frames were being used at the top level. They themselves were not fussed what frames the riders used as long as they looked like the sponsor's model. They could hardly force the riders to use their own brand as they did not want Louise Le Pedal telling the world that he left Team X because their frames rode like a garden gate.


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## I like Skol (16 Mar 2017)

Just watched this a second time. Still brilliant!


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## Smokin Joe (16 Mar 2017)

I've just watched the recording. In 1990 I bought a Dyna Tech and each bike came with a picture of the guy who assembled it. I'm sure the fellow with the sideburns was the one who put mine together.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Mar 2017)

[QUOTE 4724918, member: 259"]No mention of Carlton was a bit strange, but a great programme.[/QUOTE]
Raleigh made a huge mistake when they bought and then buried the Carlton brand. Carlton was a name respected among racing cyclists and had they badged their best frames that way they'd have kept their presence in the serious market. Even in the heady days of Ti Raleigh very few club riders wanted something by the same people who made the Chopper and Dreadnought type sit up and begs.


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## Drago (16 Mar 2017)

If Carlton were still going their close association with Savile would have sunk them anyway.

Anyone remember Aids slimming cubes? Used to sell like hot cakes until Aids the disease came along.


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## Ron-da-Valli (16 Mar 2017)

As a teen lad I had a bright red chopper!


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## Drago (16 Mar 2017)

I had a purple Chopper.

I still do.


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## Archeress (16 Mar 2017)

Johnno260 said:


> Loved this show, Grifter and BMX can't be mentioned in the same sentence, those things weighed a ton...literally I think! haha
> 
> Loved seeing the Chopper I loved mine.
> 
> ...


My first bike was the Grifters baby brother, the Strika. My best friend also had one too. I would say that the Strika was a heavy bike too, or it appeared so to me as an 8yo.

Hugs
Archeress x


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## Lozz360 (17 Mar 2017)

robgul said:


> I met this lady at a bash at Coventry Transport Museum about 10 or 12 years ago when she opened a new cycle section - absolutely tiny!


The lady or the museum cycle section?


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## Flick of the Elbow (17 Mar 2017)

Watched it last night, what a great programme. The full on industrial blacksmithing going on in the factory was quite something. And the chap putting the bearings into the hubs, amazing.


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## Flick of the Elbow (17 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Be interesting to know if folk at the time were aware of what i can only call deception. And if so, whether there was any public comment.


This was and is standard practice. The spaces on the bike's frame tubes are just the same as the spaces on the riders' jerseys, for sale to the right sponsor.


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## Blue Hills (17 Mar 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> This was and is standard practice. The spaces on the bike's frame tubes are just the same as the spaces on the riders' jerseys, for sale to the right sponsor.


mm - seems clear that the message from Hercules was "see what you can do on a Hercules" as opposed to "we are Hercules, praps our bikes are somewhat heavy and clunky, see what you can do on a real bike, buy a Hercules now - you deserve it"


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## Blue Hills (17 Mar 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Watched it last night, what a great programme. The full on industrial blacksmithing going on in the factory was quite something. And the chap putting the bearings into the hubs, amazing.


yes he was amazing though I feared for his state of mind/mental health/condition at the end of the day.

By the by, did anyone find it surprising that Raleigh agreed to the filming of Saturday Night and Sunday morning in their factory? Yes, Arthur Seaton is a difficult contary soul but still.


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## Drago (17 Mar 2017)

It was worth watching to see that rockabilly bloke, who's impressive coiffure was clearlymthe inspiration behind The Wolverine.


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## Poacher (17 Mar 2017)

subaqua said:


> Fookin ell it's Wolverines Grandad !





rozzer1971 said:


> The Wolverine audition you mean ?





Drago said:


> It was worth watching to see that rockabilly bloke, who's impressive coiffure was clearlymthe inspiration behind The Wolverine.


Clive Hodgson, local legend!


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## dave r (17 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Anyone remember Aids slimming cubes? Used to sell like hot cakes until Aids the disease came along.



Yes I remember them, we used to chew a cube before a meal and it would kill the appetite, I used them once when I had a shed load of weight to shift.


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## Blue Hills (17 Mar 2017)

I remember them. What was in them to kill your appetite?


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## Poacher (17 Mar 2017)

User13710 said:


> And fan of Britain First


unfortunately....eccentricity takes many forms.


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## Drago (17 Mar 2017)

User13710 said:


> And fan of Britain First



He's an immaculately coiffured patriot. An example to us all.


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## dave r (17 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I remember them. What was in them to kill your appetite?



I don't know, probably something they wouldn't be allowed to use now.


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## Blue Hills (17 Mar 2017)

yes I wondered - as I think earlier slimming pills used "speed"


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## dave r (17 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> yes I wondered - as I think earlier slimming pills used "speed"



That wouldn't surprise me, I remember an article I read where they were discussion what was put in products years ago and there was stuff that is illigal now, like the soft drink that contained heroin, which made me wonder what is in regular use today that will be banned in future.


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## dave r (17 Mar 2017)

User13710 said:


> It wasn't heroin, it was cocaine, and if there was any at all it was a tiny amount: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp



I stand corrected.


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## Poacher (17 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Anyone remember Aids slimming cubes? Used to sell like hot cakes until Aids the disease came along.


Shoot! I remember Bike-riders Aids!


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## robgul (18 Mar 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Hi rob
> 
> Can you confirm that the bike in that museum is the one she rode in the record ride?
> 
> I plan to visit it in a few weeks.


Sorry - I can't remember, I haven't been back since the opening

Rob


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## robgul (18 Mar 2017)

Poacher said:


> Shoot! I remember Bike-riders Aids!



To be more accurate the slimming products was called Ayds (that was what my memory said, and Wikipedia agreed)

Rob


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## Smokin Joe (18 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> If Carlton were still going their close association with Savile would have sunk them anyway.


It hasn't harmed Rolls Royce. 

How many people know that JS rode a Carlton? I didn't, neither would I care.


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## raleighnut (18 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> It hasn't harmed Rolls Royce.
> 
> How many people know that JS rode a Carlton? I didn't, neither would I care.


I don't know as he did ride one, he was paid as a 'sleb' to be in the adverts but look at later, they 'Knighted' the fecker.


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## Dan B (18 Mar 2017)

dave r said:


> made me wonder what is in regular use today that will be banned in future.


Petrol. We can only hope.


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## dave r (18 Mar 2017)

Dan B said:


> Petrol. We can only hope.



That will run out, its just a question of when, are we over peak oil? No one is saying.


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## Drago (18 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> How many people know that JS rode a Carlton? I didn't, neither would I care.



Carlton enthusiasts, in the main. Bikes advertised as "Ex Savile" went for a premium if the claims could be corroborated. I expect any documentation has been quietly lost now and they've reverted to normal Carlton status.

Indeed, just before the sheet hit the fan one bike shop - I don't recall which - paid a fortune for a Savile machine to go on display. A few weeks later their investment was not only worthless, but not even displayable because of the risk of vandalism.

So it seems the very people who would be most likely to buy Carlton's today, the enthusiasts, are all too aware, and sales would likely have suffered just by the association. Like Aids. After all, if the public didn't take notice of slebs and brand affiliations then manufacturers wouldn't paybthe same slebs millions to be seen with their products.


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## Drago (18 Mar 2017)

dave r said:


> That will run out, its just a question of when, are we over peak oil? No one is saying.



It depends on the measure. In absolute terms its open to question, but we probably are past the peak of oil that's easily accessible by conventional drilling, with shale and tar reserves possibly being the lions share of the remainder.


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## Drago (18 Mar 2017)

[QUOTE 4727648, member: 259"]Carlton enthusiasts wouldn't give a flying fark if Jimmy Saville rode a Carlton.[/QUOTE]

Alas, that's nothing more than speculation. What is not speculation is the sudden disappearance of the words "ex Savile bike" in the wording of ads for Carltons.

Whereas previously those words would command a premium, now they never even get mentioned. Strange behaviour for people that couldn't give a flying fark, wouldn't you say?


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## Drago (18 Mar 2017)

[QUOTE 4727655, member: 259"]Nonsense, that's more to do with Saville fans.[/QUOTE]

Then why were such ads in bike mags and on bike forums at all?

Why were bike shops and not memorabilia sellers buying ex Savile bikes for their display?

Edit - just remembered, it was Planet X.


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## mcshroom (18 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Then why were such ads in bike mags and on bike forums at all?
> 
> Why were bike shops and not memorabilia sellers buying ex Savile bikes for their display?
> 
> Edit - just remembered, it was Planet X.


They actually bought 4 of his bikes, though only one was a Carlton. The others were two Viking Superlites and an Oscar Egg
http://road.cc/content/news/62676-planet-x-bid-and-win-four-jimmy-saville-bikes-auction


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## Smokin Joe (19 Mar 2017)

If Carlton were still a top selling brand Savile would not have dented their sales to the tune of even one. How many of the general public are even aware that Savile was a cyclist? After it all came out there wasn't a rush of research into what TV he owned or which coffee he drank so they could be avoided. The only people who were aware of Savile's ownership of a Carlton were the anoraks who even knew the date of birth of the guy who applied the transfers.


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## Alan O (19 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> How many of the general public are even aware that Savile was a cyclist?



I wasn't until I read this thread.


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## GuyBoden (19 Mar 2017)

Tour of Britain 1951, rode for the Yorkshire team. He didn't finish. Oscar Savile.


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## Flick of the Elbow (19 Mar 2017)

GuyBoden said:


> Tour of Britain 1951, rode for the Yorkshire team. He didn't finish. Oscar Saville.
> 
> View attachment 343165


I remember one of the staff in my LBS back in the 80's recalling how Savile would turn up for races with his bike in the boot of his Rolls-Royce. I can't quite remember, he might even have said pink Rolls-Royce.


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## Pale Rider (19 Mar 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I remember one of the staff in my LBS back in the 80's recalling how Savile would turn up for races with his bike in the boot of his Rolls-Royce. I can't quite remember, he might even have said pink Rolls-Royce.



I saw Savile a couple of times in central London in a Rolls Royce.

It might have been a Corniche convertible, google suggests he had several Rolls over the years.

It had the number plate JS 247 - the original Radio One medium wave frequency, although I think they were broadcasting on something else when I saw the car in the 1980s.

Here's one of his later Rolls with the same number plate:

http://www.aol.co.uk/cars/2012/10/12/jimmy-savile-scandal-drives-down-value-of-his-rolls-to-almost/


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## Grant Fondo (19 Mar 2017)

This fella didnt seem to have much impact on Merc sales?


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## User32269 (19 Mar 2017)

Grant Fondo said:


> This fella didnt seem to have much impact on Merc sales?
> View attachment 343260


You would think it would have been pointed out to him that rag tops are hairdressers cars?


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## Smokin Joe (20 Mar 2017)

odav said:


> You would think it would have been pointed out to him that rag tops are hairdressers cars?


What else would he turn up in when guest of honour at the German Hairdressers Convention?


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## raleighnut (20 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> What else would he turn up in when guest of honour at the German Hairdressers Convention?


I heard he was Hermann Goering's wig-maker on the side.


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## EasyPeez (20 Mar 2017)

Great doc. Thanks to the OP for the heads up☺


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## User32269 (20 Mar 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> What else would he turn up in when guest of honour at the German Hairdressers Convention?


Your correct. My research has led to some little known newsreel footage of a passionate speech, extolling the benefits of the chiseled side parting and fringe, by Nurembergs finest barber, Herr Kutz.


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