# Max speed



## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Does anyone know why we are out of the EU. Why can't ebikes do the same max speed of 20mph as American ebikes do , we are trying to get a trade deal with America that would be one less obstacle.


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## KnittyNorah (30 Sep 2021)

Maybe it's because legislating for increase of speed on narrow and often crowded shared tracks in a densely-populated, heavily-trafficed country, would be, well, somewhat dangerous for all users?


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Does anyone know why we are out of the EU. Why can't ebikes do the same max speed of 20mph as American ebikes do , we are trying to get a trade deal with America that would be one less obstacle.



Whut?


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Sep 2021)

You can buy Giant and Trek and Specialised e bikes in this country. Doesn’t seem to be any barriers to USA companies selling e bikes here.


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

You can buy pedelecs that do exacly this.


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

I doubt there's a trade deal worth having anywhere that relies on increasing the speed restriction on e-bikes. What a bizarre post.


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## numbnuts (30 Sep 2021)

I was doing 40 mph the other day on my etrike.............down a steep hill and the motor had switched off some time earlier.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Whut?


Why not


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Why not



If you want an e moped go buy one.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I doubt there's a trade deal worth having anywhere that relies on increasing the speed restriction on e-bikes. What a bizarre post.


Just one less obstacle.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If you want an e moped go buy one.


I would if I did .


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## fossyant (30 Sep 2021)

Nooo, can't be having them going faster. My 'analogue' speed is over 15mph on flat gravel off road - fast enough to get away from the leccy lot. I'd never manage it if they could do 20.


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Just one less obstacle.




Which exchange of trades, goods or tariffs do you have in mind that would hinge on the UK introducing a higher cut-off for e-bikes?


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

numbnuts said:


> I was doing 40 mph the other day on my etrike.............down a steep hill and the motor had switched off some time earlier.


Must have been a steep hill .


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Which exchange of trades, goods or tariffs do you have in mind that would hinge on the UK introducing a higher cut-off for e-bikes?


You are missing the point.


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> You are missing the point.



Apologies, I'm trying to understand the point. How is the current situation an obstacle?


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> You are missing the point.


If ebikes were sold with the 15mph restrictions or 20mph which do you think would sell the most .


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> If ebikes were sold with the 15mph restrictions or 20mph which do you think would sell the most .



You could try explaining your reasoning. I still don't see how the two are connected (trade deal and speed cut-offs).


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> You could try explaining your reasoning. I still don't see how the two are connected (trade deal and speed cut-offs).


If you were a America business trying to export your bikes it would be easier to do .


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## All uphill (30 Sep 2021)

We should also remove gun legislation to make it easier for Smith and Wesson.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

All uphill said:


> We should also remove gun legislation to make it easier for Smith and Wesson.


I thought.this was a friendly ebike forum with people given there ideas and advice .


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## Alex321 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> If ebikes were sold with the 15mph restrictions or 20mph which do you think would sell the most .



I doubt it would make a significant difference.



Biker man said:


> If you were a America business trying to export your bikes it would be easier to do .



Maybe very slightly, though against probably not enough to notice.

But if things are imposed for safety reasons (which this limit is), we don't change them just to make trading easier.

And I don't think the 15mph limit is anything to do with the EU anyhow. It would be 15.5 if it were (25kph)


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## Alex321 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> I thought.this was a friendly ebike forum with people given there ideas and advice .


You are questioning why a safety measure should be what it is, when relaxing it could (you believe) make trading easier.

He was just extrapolating that to other legislation we have in place for safety reasons.


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> If you were a America business trying to export your bikes it would be easier to do .



It's a software setting, that's all. It would make no difference to their ease of export to foreign markets.


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## Oldhippy (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Must have been a steep hill .


I can reach nigh on 40 mph on a good downhill on two wheeler. Trikes are quick at the best of times.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Alex321 said:


> I doubt it would make a significant difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Alex321 said:


> I doubt it would make a significant difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No you are correct in what you are saying but most people want a bit extra speed it did have a lot to do with the EU hence the Km measurements .


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## Alex321 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> No you are correct in what you are saying but most people want a bit extra speed it did have a lot to do with the EU hence the Km measurements .


Actually, I only just realised it isn't 15mph as many say, but 15.5 - which indeed fits with 25kph.

So it probably was a limit chosen by the EU. Which isn't a good reason to change it though. We have other similar values which are also unlikely to change - such as the requirement for a car speedo to read between the true speed and (true speed + 10% + 2.4mph) where the 2.4mph is the equivalent of 4kph.

Looking further - it appears that law dates back to 2015. I hadn't realised it was that long ago.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Maybe it's because legislating for increase of speed on narrow and often crowded shared tracks in a densely-populated, heavily-trafficed country, would be, well, somewhat dangerous for all users?


Exactly nearly been knocked down by idiots in town myself.


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## ebikeerwidnes (30 Sep 2021)

There are not really that many people who want an increase in the cut off speed - as demonstrated by 2 recent petitions to the government

neither gained many signatures despite a lot of people on forums trying to drum up support

and - as said above - many bikes are sold in both places - it the cut off is the only problem then it is just a software setting - or at the most a ROM setting on a chip.

The main difference is the motor power - max 250W in EU/UK - much higher allowed in the USA - but I can;t see there being any willingness to up this in parliament - there is enough anti-cyclist stuf as it is - imagine the headlines in the Mail if they quadrupled the motor power allowed!!!


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## classic33 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> No you are correct in what you are saying but most people want a bit extra speed it did have a lot to do with the EU hence the Km measurements .


Pedal a bit harder.


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## fossyant (30 Sep 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> I can reach nigh on 40 mph on a good downhill on two wheeler. Trikes are quick at the best of times.



Is that all.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

classic33 said:


> Pedal a bit harder.


🚴🚴🚴🚴 Strange thing is you can do 60mph if you pedal that fast and be legal


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> Is that all.


I take that is a ordinary bike .


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## fossyant (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> 🚴🚴🚴🚴 Strange thing is you can do 60mph if you pedal that fast and be legal



Which I've done downhill, but wouldn't recommend it on anything other than a good race bike.

The 20 mph limit is probably getting into the realms of powered transport, so MOT and insurance. It's takes a significant amount more power to go from 15 mph to 20 mph on a normal bike.


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## fossyant (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> I take that is a ordinary bike .



Yep. I do 40 regular on a little downhill near me, no pedaling needed.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> Which I've done downhill, but wouldn't recommend it on anything other than a good race bike.
> 
> The 20 mph limit is probably getting into the realms of powered transport, so MOT and insurance. It's takes a significant amount more power to go from 15 mph to 20 mph on a normal bike.


You have done sixty on a bike I have 34 and thought if I hit a pot hole I am dead.


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## Oldhippy (30 Sep 2021)

I have a tourer it rolls well especially loaded downhill. 😁


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## classic33 (30 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> Is that all.


I've hit 57 mph on four wheels and pedal power.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

classic33 said:


> I've hit 57 mph on four wheels and pedal power.


With the wind behind you.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> I have a tourer it rolls well especially loaded downhill. 😁


Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.


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## classic33 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> With the wind behind you.


Slight crosswind actually.


Biker man said:


> Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.


There's a big difference to doing the same speed aided by a battery and motor, and under your own power.
It's where the e-assist comes from, there to assist, not be the sole means of motive power.


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## cougie uk (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Why not


Europe is a hell of a lot nearer than America. You can ride there.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

classic33 said:


> Slight crosswind actually.
> 
> There's a big difference to doing the same speed aided by a battery and motor, and under your own power.
> It's where the e-assist comes from, there to assist, not be the sole means of motive power.


Well you are using gravity to assist you.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Europe is a hell of a lot nearer than America. You can ride there.


Not for me thanks riden in Ireland and Canada you are welcome to mainland Europe.


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## T4tomo (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.


they were knocking you for thinking having similar ebkie cutoff speeds would help Boris sign a trade deal with the US, which is fanciful bollox.

back on planet earth, the best we could hope for is Biden letting us in of the existing US CAn mexico trade deal, regardless of our ebike legislation.


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## Dolorous Edd (30 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> It's takes a significant amount more power to go from 15 mph to 20 mph on a normal bike.



I have noticed!!


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## cougie uk (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Not for me thanks riden in Ireland and Canada you are welcome to mainland Europe.


Ireland is Europe.


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## Pale Rider (30 Sep 2021)

Most of the 'American' 20mph ebikes are rebadged generic Chinese.

Thus if the UK limit was raised to 20mph, what would happen is existing UK based importers of Chinese ebikes would import the faster models.

Some do already.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Ireland is Europe.


Yes I know some one said you need insurance and your bike has to have a number plate in either Eire or Northern Ireland but I had no.problems .


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

T4tomo said:


> they were knocking you for thinking having similar ebkie cutoff speeds would help Boris sign a trade deal with the US, which is fanciful bollox.
> 
> back on planet earth, the best we could hope for is Biden letting us in of the existing US CAn mexico trade deal, regardless of our ebike legislation.


Not interested in the Politics just from a business point of view it would be easier.


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Yes I know some one said you need insurance and your bike has to have a number plate in either Eire or Northern Ireland but I had no.problems .


And I can see us ending up with it here too if people continue to take the pith with illegally fast ebikes. 

Its bad enough that they do it, but most of them then go and boast about it in ouvlic on internet forums and Faecesberk, which will be about the first places parliamentary researchers will look if justification for turning the screw on us is ever under considerstion.


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## classic33 (30 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> Yep. I do 40 regular on a little downhill near me, no pedaling needed.


Easily do that on two wheels round here. Just not a big enough target for the speed cameras though.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Sep 2021)

Hit 34 mph on the flat yesterday. No motor required.


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## glasgowcyclist (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.



These are peak speeds, attained briefly. They are not sustainable in the way electrically assisted speeds are.


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

I find im much faster on a regular bike, by some margin.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.



When I hit 34 mph on the flat. My overall average was 11 mph for the ride. As explained these are brief bursts of speed. Not sustainable ones as would be the case with assist.


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## Jenkins (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> If you were a America business trying to export your bikes it would be easier to do .


The bikes are exported direct to the UK from where they are manufactured in the far east, not shipped to America and then re-exported here - American businesses don't seem to have a problem at the moment with the different settings as the only thing needed is a software change before the bike leaves Asia.

Also 15mph is a good speed for most non-assisted bikes ridden by 'average' riders, so why would you want to go faster?


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## neil_merseyside (30 Sep 2021)

Higher speed = shorter range.


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> Higher speed = shorter range.


Thats true


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## Biker man (30 Sep 2021)

Jenkins said:


> The bikes are exported direct to the UK from where they are manufactured in the far east, not shipped to America and then re-exported here - American businesses don't seem to have a problem at the moment with the different settings as the only thing needed is a software change before the bike leaves Asia.
> 
> Also 15mph is a good speed for most non-assisted bikes ridden by 'average' riders, so why would you want to go faster?


A lot of people do want more speed .


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## Jenkins (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> A lot of people do want more speed .


As has already been posted - pedal harder.


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## Ridgeway (30 Sep 2021)

45kmh here, number plate, tax and insurance required


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## carpiste (30 Sep 2021)

Several points have been made since the original post. From what I can see a lot of people are happy going faster, under their own steam, and all ebikes can and do go faster than the 15.5 mph. 15.5 mph is deemed a safe speed and as an ebike rider I feel it is both a safe speed and a reasonable speed to get you from A to B in good time.
As the OP mentions that it could be help for business I have to suggest that this would be of no value to trade. The amount of sales in ebikes, bikes and biking gear is a tiny fraction of the UK economy. It would cost more to change the legislation than the potential gains in trade!
Finally I have witnessed eole, youths mainly, whizzing around on unregulated ebikes and have to say the last thing I want to see are more riding around at high seeds with no idea of how to conduct themselves whilst sharing the road (or some case avements!
On a different note the letter to the right of my "o" has acked u so I`ve lost the will to carry on with this. Suffice to say no change for me thanks


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> A lot of people do want more speed .


Then they can buy a speed pedelec. Or buy a regular bicycle and go faster.


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## roubaixtuesday (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> A lot of people do want more speed .



A lot of people want to murder their spouse. 

What's your point?


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## le_al_khemista (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> A lot of people do want more speed .



Such people are using the wrong vehicle then. As said before, would suggest looking into mopeds...


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## Mike_P (30 Sep 2021)

Drago said:


> Then they can buy a speed pedelec. Or buy a regular bicycle and go faster.


Or pedal faster on an ebike, mine regularly exceeds it's motor assist limit on the level and gentle grades as well as down grade.


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Or pedal faster on an ebike, mine regularly exceeds it's motor assist limit on the level and gentle grades as well as down grade.


As does mine, although its a real lump to pedal at those speeds compared to my svelte 'racers'. My average is always significantly higher on my unassisted bikes.


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## Alex321 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> You have done sixty on a bike I have 34 and  thought if I hit a pot hole I am dead.


I've never hit the 60 Fossyant has, but I quite often get over 40mph on downhills. I think about 45-46 is the max I've hit. But it is quite an unusual ride if my max speed is under 33.

Provided you can see far enough ahead to be able to stop if something comes the other way (or the road is wide enough that doesn't matter), and provided there aren't any potholes you can't avoid, it isn't dangero8us, or too hard to do.


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## Alex321 (30 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Strange when I posted about having the same speed as American bikes everyone was knocking me now everyone is boasting how fast they have been.


The knocking was because you were suggesting changing safety regulations to make trade easier (which it wouldn't really even do).

The thing is, so long as the fall within the regulated limits, e-bikes count as bikes, and can use the shared use paths. Do you really want them powered so they can be doing 20mph+ in those circumstances? 

Few of us who have hit 30+ on the road would do that on a shared use path, but not all e-bike riders are experienced enough general cyclists to recognise the risk in that, or adequately judge what speed they are doing. Many would be absolutely fine, of course, but the regulations are intended to reduce the risk from those who aren't .


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## FrothNinja (1 Oct 2021)

If Dorna gets the rights to run international eBike races I suspect that a lot of countries will decide that is proof they are motorbikes & for for licences and registration. If that happens in the UK etc, then the pedal assist only & 15.5mph rules will be redundant & they will probably be allowed to run the same as restricted mopeds etc. 15 is fast enough anyway if you want to do more than a couple of miles distance on pedal assist


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## Drago (1 Oct 2021)

You can already buy 'speed pedelecs' that are legally mopeds, pedal assisted ebikes with similar performance to a slo-ped. Very cheap to insure (30-50 quid a year), free to tax, yet practically no one is buying them, which suggests there is not much of a market for them. They are already a thing, and they ain't selling, so why would the government consider changing the law to accommodate something for which there is little genuine demand?

Conversely, pure electric mopeds are selling like hot cakes.

There will be no upward change to the current 15.5 regs in the UK. As above, there is clearly little demand for it. If anything the clamour from the media and NPCC over hig profile incidents involving illegal ebikes is more likely ro end up getting us regulated and documented rather than have the limit raised. Little point speculating when it ain't gonna happen.

Lots of people wanting this and that, but not one puts their hand in their pocket to buy the ones that are already legally available. Only when people start buying them and prove there is a demand is anything ever likely to change.


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> The knocking was because you were suggesting changing safety regulations to make trade easier (which it wouldn't really even do).
> 
> The thing is, so long as the fall within the regulated limits, e-bikes count as bikes, and can use the shared use paths. Do you really want them powered so they can be doing 20mph+ in those circumstances?
> 
> Few of us who have hit 30+ on the road would do that on a shared use path, but not all e-bike riders are experienced enough general cyclists to recognise the risk in that, or adequately judge what speed they are doing. Many would be absolutely fine, of course, but the regulations are intended to reduce the risk from those who aren't .


People are buying kits to buy pass the settings and moving the magnet on the wheel.There are no end of illegal out there .


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> I've never hit the 60 Fossyant has, but I quite often get over 40mph on downhills. I think about 45-46 is the max I've hit. But it is quite an unusual ride if my max speed is under 33.
> 
> Provided you can see far enough ahead to be able to stop if something comes the other way (or the road is wide enough that doesn't matter), and provided there aren't any potholes you can't avoid, it isn't dangero8us, or too hard to do.


Pot holes can be lethal and the faster you go the more difficult to spot and avoid .


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Or pedal faster on an ebike, mine regularly exceeds it's motor assist limit on the level and gentle grades as well as down grade.


Pedal faster is that like having a dog and barking yourself.


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## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> People are buying kits to buy pass the settings and moving the magnet on the wheel.There are no end of illegal out there .


And?

The fact that some people break the law isn't a good reason to change it.

There are people break the speed limits in cars every day too. In fact I would think a far higher proportion of car drivers regularly break speed limits than the proportion of e-bike riders who override the limits on those. But we don't have any huge clamour for speed limits to be raised.


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## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Pedal faster is that like having a dog and barking yourself.


No.

The eclectic power is meant to be an *assist*. It is there to supplement your pedalling efforts, not replace them.


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## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Pot holes can be lethal and the faster you go the more difficult to spot and avoid .


True, but you can normally see them fairly easily at 35mph on a dry day. What I find limits the speed I feel safe at on downhills on such days are bends that I can't see far enough round, rather than potholes.

In the dark, I am more worried about potholes, or when it is raining heavily enough for there to be pools of water. And I wouldn't do 35mph+ then, except on roads I know very well, and know there aren't any potholes.


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## Mike_P (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Pedal faster is that like having a dog and barking yourself.


If you want to be fat and lazy so be it


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Mike_P said:


> If you want to be fat and lazy so be it


It's called old age it will catch up with you see how cocky you are then.


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> True, but you can normally see them fairly easily at 35mph on a dry day. What I find limits the speed I feel safe at on downhills on such days are bends that I can't see far enough round, rather than potholes.
> 
> In the dark, I am more worried about potholes, or when it is raining heavily enough for there to be pools of water. And I wouldn't do 35mph+ then, except on roads I know very well, and know there aren't any potholes.


There is always the unexpected.


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> And?
> 
> The fact that some people break the law isn't a good reason to change it.
> 
> There are people break the speed limits in cars every day too. In fact I would think a far higher proportion of car drivers regularly break speed limits than the proportion of e-bike riders who override the limits on those. But we don't have any huge clamour for speed limits to be raised.


Thats true wish they would lower the one by where I live it's like a racetrack.


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## Arrowfoot (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Not interested in the Politics just from a business point of view it would be easier.


Its not politics. Our value system is closer to Europe than America. Someone else used the gun analogy to make the same point. Another said it was a software change, so should not be any trade impediments.

Btw, the EU specs are input from members including the UK. EU value systems about safety, conduct against monopolistic cartel behaviour, consumer protection etc are World class.


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Its not politics. Our value system is closer to Europe than America. Someone else used the gun analogy to make the same point. Btw Another said it was a software change, so should not be any trade impediments.
> 
> Btw, the EU specs are input from members including the UK. EU values systems about safety, conduct against monopolistic cartel behaviour, consumer protection etc are World class.


They are over the top value system don't make me laugh if it wasn't for the USA we would not be free tens of thousands died for our freedom.


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## KnittyNorah (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> They are over the top value system don't make me laugh if it wasn't for the USA we would not be free tens of thousands died for our freedom.



When did you last live in the USA and enjoy their so-called 'freedoms'? But that's venturing into politics so ...


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## youngoldbloke (1 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Maybe it's because legislating for increase of speed on narrow and often crowded shared tracks in a densely-populated, heavily-trafficed country, would be, well, somewhat dangerous for all users?


What?- just like bikes without electrical assistance! Remember it's quite easy to exceed the legal assisted speed by just pedalling harder. It's not the speed that's the problem, it's the user- assisted or not. And yes the legal assisted speed for e-road bikes should be increased - to 18mph.


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## KnittyNorah (1 Oct 2021)

Others have very competently rebuffed this spurious and largely-unsupported 'claim' of yours and a few others. I suggest you read their posts.


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Pedal faster is that like having a dog and barking yourself.



Then buy yourself a motorbike. In fact, make it a Harley and do your bit for American/UK trade relations. 👍




Biker man said:


> They are over the top value system don't make me laugh if it wasn't for the USA we would not be free tens of thousands died for our freedom.



You truly are the master of the non-sequitur


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## mustang1 (1 Oct 2021)

We should change to left-hand drive cars to assist in any future trade deals.

Wait, no, that would actually really work in America's favour! Scratch that. As you were.


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## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> When did you last live in the USA and enjoy their so-called 'freedoms'? But that's venturing into politics so ...


They saved us in WW2 and thousands of deaths in the 1st WW and


glasgowcyclist said:


> Then buy yourself a motorbike. In fact, make it a Harley and do your bit for American/UK trade relations. 👍
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wise guy.


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## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> What?- just like bikes without electrical assistance! Remember it's quite easy to exceed the legal assisted speed by just pedalling harder. It's not the speed that's the problem, it's the user- assisted or not. And yes the legal assisted speed for e-road bikes should be increased - to 18mph.


While it is reasonably easy to exceed that speed by pedalling harder, it is only relatively experienced cyclists who can do that for more than a few second, and one would hope that the more experienced cyclists would also have a decent awareness of when it is safe to travel at those speeds. With an e-bike anybody can rid at the highest speed it assist at, even if it is your very first time riding one.


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## youngoldbloke (1 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Others have very competently rebuffed this spurious and largely-unsupported 'claim' of yours and a few others. I suggest you read their posts.


? is this a reply to my post? If so what spurious claim? I'm suggesting that in the wrong hands any bike, assisted or not, can be ridden dangerously, without care and without regard for one's own or other's safety. In my personal view, an assisted level of 18mph would be a realistic level for e-ROAD bikes.


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## youngoldbloke (1 Oct 2021)

How many of those posting actually ride e-bikes?


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## lazybloke (1 Oct 2021)

numbnuts said:


> I was doing 40 mph the other day on my etrike.............down a steep hill and the motor had switched off some time earlier.





Biker man said:


> Must have been a steep hill .



I've heard _Gravity Sucks_, so I conducted a scientific experiment to assess its effect by rolling down a local hill. A long but not excessively steep descent. 

Started freewheeling at 13.6 mph and peaked at over 40mph.

I've not tried an ebike, but I would imagine they are subject to the same laws of motion as conventional bikes.
v=u+at


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> How many of those posting actually ride e-bikes?


That's a good question.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

mustang1 said:


> We should change to left-hand drive cars to assist in any future trade deals.
> 
> Wait, no, that would actually really work in America's favour! Scratch that. As you were.


You are being silly that's the only polite thing I can say.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> thousands


Just show them some respect it would be a pretty dull world without America .


----------



## Drago (1 Oct 2021)

mustang1 said:


> We should change to left-hand drive cars to assist in any future trade deals.
> 
> Wait, no, that would actually really work in America's favour! Scratch that. As you were.


One must concur.

The problem is the words "american workmanship" are usually assciated with the words "shoddy" and, if you're lucky,"mediocre". Despite being cheap theres a good reason their cars never took off here, even in the modern age when they're relatively economical and normal by local standards of taste.

Ditto american electronics.

Ditto american clothing.

Even the best 'American' musical instruments are made in Japan or Indonesia.

There is very little that the Americans manufacture well themselves outside of weaponry. We can get much better for less from other countries, and so we do. It'll take a bit more than a few high performance ebikes to change any of that.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> One must concur.
> 
> The problem is the words "american workmanship" are usually assciated with the words "shoddy" and, if you're lucky,"mediocre". Despite being cheap theres a good reason their cars never took off here, even in the modern age when they're relatively economical and normal by local standards of taste.
> 
> ...


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Aren't jeans American and maybe you have heard of Google and the Internet they is also Jeep Boeing anyway I thought this site was a ebike site .


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> You are being silly that's the only polite thing I can say.



That is rather his point.

He is only extrapolating from the things you are saying, in order to show the silliness of some of your arguments.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Aren't jeans American and maybe you have heard of Google and the Internet they is also Jeep Boeing anyway I thought this site was a ebike site .



Not American, no. The fabric we recognise as jeans originated in Europe, either in Genoa, Italy (from which we get 'jeans') or from Nîmes, France (from which we get denim, meaning "from Nîmes").


----------



## winjim (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> They saved us in WW2 and thousands of deaths in the 1st WW and
> Wise guy.


Nobody died for our freedom in the world wars. They died because the government of the time conscripted them to go and fight. Possibly because they believed there was a threat to their own country or to help other people suffering under occupation. Nobody landed on Omaha Beach thinking that they'd better be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice so that in seventy-five years time you could ride an electric bike as fast as you want.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Not American, no. The fabric we recognise as jeans originated in Europe, either in Genoa, Italy (from which we get 'jeans') or from Nîmes, France (from which we get denim, meaning "from Nîmes").


You are a mine of information.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

winjim said:


> Nobody died for our freedom in the world wars. They died because the government of the time conscripted them to go and fight. Possibly because they believed there was a threat to their own country or to help other people suffering under occupation. Nobody landed on Omaha Beach thinking that they'd better be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice so that in seventy-five years time you could ride an electric bike as fast as you want.


That is the most stupid post yet my Grandad was on the western front and said if the Americans hadn't come in tens of thousands of lives would have been lost .


----------



## roubaixtuesday (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> if it wasn't for the USA we would not be free tens of thousands died for our freedom.



Yes! We should derestrict e-bikes because of wars fought nearly a century ago. 

Can we get atomic powered ones to remove the battery life constraints too?


----------



## Dogtrousers (1 Oct 2021)

Weird thread.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> That is the most stupid post yet my Grandad was on the western front and said if the Americans hadn't come in tens of thousands of lives would have been lost .


It was not in the slightest bit "stupid", and all your posts here about that are totally irrelevant, and bordering on the politics which I believe is not allowed here (as are the responses to your posts).


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Yes! We should derestrict e-bikes because of wars fought nearly a century ago.
> 
> Can we get atomic powered ones to remove the battery life constraints too?


You can get hot air ones soon plenty of that here .


----------



## Dogtrousers (1 Oct 2021)

Going back to the OP ...


Biker man said:


> Does anyone know why we are out of the EU. Why can't ebikes do the same max speed of 20mph as American ebikes do , we are trying to get a trade deal with America that would be one less obstacle.


What happens now is that US domiciled companies like Spesh and Trek manufacture goods in the far east and ship them from there into various target markets around the world, all of which have different regulations.

Due to this market variability they need to do two things. 1) Manufacture market specific variants of products (set the speed limit, include an appropriate plug, and so on) and 2) add market specific packaging (local language packaging, market specific manuals and warning stickers for batteries and so on). They try to do this as efficiently as possible to make goods interchangeable between markets.

They'll have a product compliance team working on this and will try to push as much of this back to the far eastern manufacturing plant as possible with as little rework as possible further down the chain, but they are ready and able to deal with various different markets. It's their job.

Now, how would changing the UK regulations, currently aligned with the EU regs (25km/h), to align them with the US regs(20mph) help at all? It wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. It would just make importing into the European area slightly more of a headache (because the UK would require different product variants), but not much.

And what impact would this have on a US-UK trade deal? None at all.

Of course the supply chain will be more complex than that, for example Wikipedia tells me that Trek do some manufacturing in Germany (but none in the US). But primarily the movement of goods will be from Taiwan and other far eastern locations with some finishing/rework in the target markets. Very little of this is going via the US, which is just another import area.


----------



## Solocle (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> I've never hit the 60 Fossyant has, but I quite often get over 40mph on downhills. I think about 45-46 is the max I've hit. But it is quite an unusual ride if my max speed is under 33.
> 
> Provided you can see far enough ahead to be able to stop if something comes the other way (or the road is wide enough that doesn't matter), and provided there aren't any potholes you can't avoid, it isn't dangero8us, or too hard to do.


I've hit 57 mph. Down Fleet Moss, so a lumpy singletrack road in Yorkshire.
4:50

View: https://youtu.be/1VMCMpuWouQ&t=4m50s


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Solocle said:


> I've hit 57 mph. Down Fleet Moss, so a lumpy singletrack road in Yorkshire.
> 4:50
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/1VMCMpuWouQ&t=4m50s



How do you know what speed you are doing I think 60 mph is fancy full high speeds on a bike is irresponsible don't you watch air ablance .


----------



## cougie uk (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> How do you know what speed you are doing I think 60 mph is fancy full high speeds on a bike is irresponsible don't you watch air ablance .


Hang on if you don't know what speed you're doing can we just tell you we've set your bike to the US limits ? Will you be happy then ?


----------



## winjim (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> How do you know what speed you are doing I think 60 mph is fancy full high speeds on a bike is irresponsible don't you watch air ablance .


Time for this picture again.


----------



## KnittyNorah (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> They saved us in WW2 and thousands of deaths in the 1st WW and



That is not an answer to the question I asked of you. 
BTW, if you are using number of deaths as an indication of saviourhood, don't forget the ~27 MILLION deaths of USSR citizens in WW2.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> How do you know what speed you are doing I think 60 mph is fancy full high speeds on a bike is irresponsible don't you watch air ablance .


Many of us on here have computers which tell us what speed we are doing. And while I wouldn't be looking at mine while doing those sorts of speeds, it will be in the field of view if I have my GoPro on, and if not, then Strava will list the maximum speed when the ride is uploaded to there.

It isn't hard to know what speeds you have reached on a ride, or on a particular segment.

And 60 may be irresponsible on some roads, but on others it is absolutely fine. 

"High speeds" (assuming you are talking anything over about 40mph) is certainly not generically irresponsible. It is all about context. There are roads near me where 60 would be perfectly safe if I could go that fast on them. There are others where I probably could reach that speed, but anything over about 25 would be stupidly dangerous.


----------



## Oldhippy (1 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> That is not an answer to the question I asked of you.
> BTW, if you are using number of deaths as an indication of saviourhood, don't forget the ~27 MILLION deaths of USSR citizens in WW2.


Even that is a conservative estimate.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (1 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> don't forget the ~27 MILLION deaths of USSR citizens in WW2.



How did this thread take us from ebikes to Stalingrad?


----------



## FishFright (1 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> How did this thread take us from ebikes to Stalingrad?



It went via Desperation and Hyperbole then a quick stop at Desperation to call in WW2 for backup. All that at 15.5 mph which is quick enough really.


----------



## classic33 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> There is always the unexpected.


Or the rider not paying attention.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Many of us on here have computers which tell us what speed we are doing. And while I wouldn't be looking at mine while doing those sorts of speeds, it will be in the field of view if I have my GoPro on, and if not, then Strava will list the maximum speed when the ride is uploaded to there.
> 
> It isn't hard to know what speeds you have reached on a ride, or on a particular segment.
> 
> ...


Bikes are not built for that kind of speeds.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Bikes are not built for that kind of speeds.


Of course they are. What on earth makes you think otherwise?

Professionals regularly exceed 70mph on (closed road) downhills, and I've never heard of one of their bikes failing as a result of that speed.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Of course they are. What on earth makes you think otherwise?
> 
> Professionals regularly exceed 70mph on (closed road) downhills, and I've never heard of one of their bikes failing as a result of that speed.


Brakes the obvious one tyres ect .


----------



## classic33 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Brakes the obvious one tyres ect .


Don't you check yours, with you wanting to go faster?


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Don't you check yours, with you wanting to go faster?


I do use Zeopoxa cycling app gives me a map of my journey speed and distance calories burned not interested in that . I don't want a lot of speed just be nice if you needed it more interested in NMT myself.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> You are a mine of information.



One of the benefits of pub quizzes.


----------



## classic33 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I do use Zeopoxa cycling app gives me a map of my journey speed and distance calories burned not interested in that . I don't want a lot of speed just be nice if you needed it more interested in NMT myself.


I meant check your tyres and brakes.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> I meant check your tyres and brakes.


Yes check them regularly.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Brakes the obvious one tyres ect .



"Obvious" as in no real problems. Yes.

You may think it "obvious", but you are simply wrong. Bikes are perfectly capable of travelling at 60-70mph without any issues.

And the speeds we were talking about in the thread, of 40-60mph are most certainly well within the capabilities of any decent bike. 

To say bikes are "not built for those kinds of speeds" is just completely false to such an extant that frankly, it is a statement that could only be made by somebody with little knowledge of regular road bikes.


----------



## Biker man (1 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> "Obvious" as in no real problems. Yes.
> 
> You may think it "obvious", but you are simply wrong. Bikes are perfectly capable of travelling at 60-70mph without any issues.
> 
> ...


I got enough knowledge to that them kind of speeds on a bike is bonkers .


----------



## classic33 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I got enough knowledge to that them kind of speeds on a bike is bonkers .


If you've maintained your bike, and know what you're doing, why is it. Because you wouldn't do it.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I got enough knowledge to that them kind of speeds on a bike is bonkers .


No. You don't.

If you had that much knowledge, then you would know they aren't.

You are extrapolating from the fact that such speeds would scare you, and just not knowing what it is like for experienced road cyclists. 

You can know that those speeds would be bonkers *for you*. But you are just simply wrong to suggest they are generically bonkers, and saying so just proves that you *don't* have the knowledge to judge.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> No. You don't.
> 
> If you had that much knowledge, then you would know they aren't.
> 
> ...


I think most people would think that is bonkers including the police maybe you are on a different planet 😅.


----------



## le_al_khemista (2 Oct 2021)

I think Biker man is trolling. It's the only explanation I can come up with...

🎶 O say can you see..... 🇺🇲


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

le_al_khemista said:


> I think Biker man is trolling. It's the only explanation I can come up with...
> 
> 🎶 O say can you see..... 🇺🇲


I don't know what that means just thought this was a ebike forum were people talked about ebikes sensible without a load of tosh.


----------



## stoatsngroats (2 Oct 2021)

@Biker man 
The question you asked relates to a business interest changing bike speed for a faster maximum.
Cars, from all over the world are driven in towns close to you, which have restricted speeds on roads of around 30mph, and these restrictions are in place for public safety (thankfully).
Legislation mandates those speeds based on many factors, and cars are able to go faster if driven this way.
Same for bikes.
The Uk has its data which sets the maximum, thankfully business interest don’t override public safety.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Yep 60-70 mph downhill on a bike is fine in the right circumstances. That generally means good long sight lines , no sharp bends, and little to no traffic.


----------



## winjim (2 Oct 2021)

Bear in mind that my mate's attempt to break 100kph (see Garmin photo upthread) took him a good few attempts down Slack Hill, over the course of a couple of days with someone in a van driving him back to the top each time. It's not a frequent occurrence.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Bikes are not built for that kind of speeds.



Please can you inform us what speeds bikes are built for? With a link to the relevant specification?

Classic thread BTW.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Please can you inform us what speeds bikes are built for? With a link to the relevant specification?
> 
> Classic thread BTW.


Don't know that but it certainly is not 70mph .


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

stoatsngroats said:


> @Biker man
> The question you asked relates to a business interest changing bike speed for a faster maximum.
> Cars, from all over the world are driven in towns close to you, which have restricted speeds on roads of around 30mph, and these restrictions are in place for public safety (thankfully).
> Legislation mandates those speeds based on many factors, and cars are able to go faster if driven this way.
> ...


Tell that to the chap who claims to have done 70mph.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Don't know that but it certainly is not 70mph .



Don't know yet certain regardless. 

Marvellous stuff!


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

Seems somewhat ironic that posters who were warning about the dire consequences of raising the assisted speed for e-bikes have diverted the thread into one about riding bikes safely at speeds up to 70mph!


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Don't know yet certain regardless.
> 
> Marvellous stuff!


🤔can't make my mind up if you are pulling my leg or not but one thing is certain anyone who attempt s that sort of speed on a bike is irresponsible think of the ambulance and Dr nurses and folk just because you want a thrill irresponsible.


roubaixtuesday said:


> Don't know yet certain regardless.
> 
> Marvellous stuff!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> think of the ambulance and Dr nurses



What about the children? Will nobody think of the children??


----------



## stoatsngroats (2 Oct 2021)

I think you miss the point.


Biker man said:


> Tell that to the chap who claims to have done 70mph.



Raising available assisted speed will affect those in towns and cities much more, including non-cyclists.
70mph which you rfpefer to is very unlikely to have been done in a zone where 30mph is not the maximum.

It stand to sensible reason that increased speed availability will increase speed…. That’s not, and shouldn’t ever be just within the realms of what any business need craves.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

Does the national speed limit apply to bikes? If so remember - no more than 60mph on a two way road, and save your 70mph attempts for dual carriageways - of course, if the police see you you may be done for 'riding furiously' even if you argue the limits don't apply to you, and remember, no drafting motor vehicles on a public highway!


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Seems somewhat ironic that posters who were warning about the dire consequences of raising the assisted speed for e-bikes have diverted the thread into one about riding bikes safely at speeds up to 70mph!


There's a difference between getting to that speed without mechanical aid on the odd occasion and wanting to be able to ride around, with no input from yourself all the time, at a speed that most wouldn't achieve uphill whilst still saying you're cycling.

Doing the latter isn't cycling for me.


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> *Does the national speed limit apply to bikes?* If so remember - no more than 60mph on a two way road, and save your 70mph attempts for dual carriageways - of course, if the police see you you may be done for 'riding furiously' even if you argue the limits don't apply to you, and remember, no drafting motor vehicles on a public highway!


No. But it might for an electrically assisted bike, mechanically propelled.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> There's a difference between getting to that speed without mechanical aid on the odd occasion and wanting to be able to ride around, with no input from yourself all the time, at a speed that most wouldn't achieve uphill whilst still saying you're cycling.
> 
> Doing the latter isn't cycling for me.


"with no input from yourself all the time" - Do you ride an e-bike?


----------



## stoatsngroats (2 Oct 2021)

Speed limits don’t apply to bicycles, as they are not fitted with a speed measuring device, and are not motor vehicles.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> No. But it might for an electrically assisted bike, mechanically propelled.


I don't think it would if it were a legal one restricted to 25 kmph.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Does the national speed limit apply to bikes? If so remember - no more than 60mph on a two way road, and save your 70mph attempts for dual carriageways - of course, if the police see you you may be done for 'riding furiously' even if you argue the limits don't apply to you, and remember, no drafting motor vehicles on a public highway!


Perhaps he was on the M6 😉


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> "with no input from yourself all the time" - Do you ride an e-bike?


Normally no. But e-assist isn't what the OP wants either.


----------



## cyberknight (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Perhaps he was on the M6 😉



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jCBUR9joyE


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

Cyclists can’t be booked for speeding, but might be fined for ‘cycling furiously’ or ‘riding furiously’ which is an offence under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act.


----------



## neil_merseyside (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I don't know what that means just thought this was a ebike forum were people talked about ebikes sensible without a load of tosh.


Except this isn't an e-bike forum, it is only the e-bike bit of a much larger cycling forum so has plenty of real cyclists [1] who have vastly more experience/mileage/speed than you. 

[1] Most e-bikers here are those who for whatever reason need one, and so their experience could well count double....


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> "with no input from yourself all the time" - Do you ride an e-bike?


Yes I ride a ebike yes I would like i


neil_merseyside said:


> Except this isn't an e-bike forum, it is only the e-bike bit of a much larger cycling forum so has plenty of real cyclists [1] who have vastly more experience/mileage/speed than you.
> 
> [1] Most e-bikers here are those who for whatever reason need one, and so their experience could well count double....


Lost me there .


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> I don't think it would if it were a legal one restricted to 25 kmph.


25kph isn't fast enough for the OP, who is also considering derestricting.


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Cyclists can’t be booked for speeding, but might be fined for ‘cycling furiously’ or ‘riding furiously’ which is an offence under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act.


_Because bikes aren’t fitted with speedometers, cyclists can’t be charged with speeding offences. HOWEVER, if they are considered to be going too fast for the conditions, they could be charges with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a criminal offence under section 35 of the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948 s1(2))_

https://www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk...the-road-traffic-laws-that-apply-to-cyclists/


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> Except this isn't an e-bike forum, it is only the e-bike bit of a much larger cycling forum so has plenty of real cyclists [1] who have vastly more experience/mileage/speed than you.
> 
> *[1] Most e-bikers here are those who for whatever reason need one, and so their experience could well count double....*


- nice to be appreciated  *

*62 years cycling experience, including 3 with some electrical assistance.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> 25kph isn't fast enough for the OP, who is also considering derestricting.


No I am not read posts properly .


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> No I am not read posts properly .


Why "consider" adding magnets to increase the speed.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> 🤔can't make my mind up if you are pulling my leg or not but one thing is certain anyone who attempt s that sort of speed on a bike is irresponsible think of the ambulance and Dr nurses and folk just because you want a thrill irresponsible.




That’s a different argument. Yours was that bikes aren’t built for that kind of speed.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

Yes I would like a 18 or 20,mph ebike just to get home faster when rain is coming in on the Moors.I certainly would not use it on cycle track or in towns unfortunately some idiots would .As for doing 70mph on a bike is beyond belief and Who ever does or tries should be locked up.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (2 Oct 2021)

Sorry - just checking

is this just the five minute argument or the full half hour??

asking for a friend - well several actually


----------



## Oldhippy (2 Oct 2021)

As a reasonably fit person of my age and using a cycle as transport I can average 15, 18 miles an hour if I have to be somewhere. I suspect this true for many who cycle a lot. If I encounter a big hill I can roll up to 40 odd miles an hour. Obviously on a cycle path this would be stupid if it were busy or shared. The very high speeds are done by athletes in a controlled environment. As has been mentioned elsewhere Ebikes are designed I believe for assisting pedalling and not blatting around willy nilly everywhere. This will of course happen as it does with the scooter invasion that is currently popular.


----------



## winjim (2 Oct 2021)

Buy a speed pedelec and write to your MP.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (2 Oct 2021)

I generally run at about 16 mph - i.e. just about the ebike cutoff speed.
In windless conditions on flat roads I am often at about 17 mph once I get up to speed - clearly the ebike motor helps me get there faster but other than that I mostly stay just over it - but then I probably drop down a bit and the motor helps me go back up again

On which basis if the cutoff speed was higher - I would probably go higher - and 15 mph is quite enough for a bike (IMO)

If the cutoff speed was 20 mph then people would go at 20 mph - including on shared paths, tracks and tow paths - every ebike I have had (4 to date) has encouraged me up to that speed. If I come across other cyclists on narrow paths (often tow paths) then I normally knock the assistance off in order to stay behind them easily.

And, of course, there isn;t much support for it across the country - as demonstrated by 2 recent government petitions in spite of a lot of people pushing them on the ebike forums etc

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/332333


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Are we talking about e-assist speed or that achieved with pedal power?


----------



## Oldhippy (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Are we talking about e-assist speed or that achieved with pedal power?


I have a regular cycle.


----------



## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Yes I would like a 18 or 20,mph ebike just to get home faster when rain is coming in on the Moors.


Then go and buy a speed pedelec then, and slap up a pic when you have it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Yes I would like a 18 or 20,mph ebike just to get home faster when rain is coming in on the Moors.I certainly would not use it on cycle track or in towns unfortunately some idiots would .As for doing 70mph on a bike is beyond belief and Who ever does or tries should be locked up.



Pedal harder


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

I have a strange sense of déja vu. 

How long until we get to Stalingrad?


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Pedal harder


So you keep saying put another record on


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> So you keep saying put another record on



That will slow you down. What you are proposing is a moped. Buy one if you want else accept max assistance is up to 15 mph.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Are we talking about e-assist speed or that achieved with pedal power?


Wind power


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> So you keep saying put another record on


It's the only way to go faster, without insurance, helmet, MOT and a driving license, whilst remaining legal.


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Wind power


Tailwinds don't always appear when you want to go faster.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Tailwinds don't always appear when you want to go faster.


I meant hot air 😜


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> It's the only way to go faster, without insurance, helmet, MOT and a driving license, whilst remaining legal.


Try a racehorse 🤠


----------



## Spiderweb (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Wind power


Eat more beans then🤣


----------



## winjim (2 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> How long until we get to Stalingrad?


Some time at 15.5mph. Probably get stuck in the snow and all.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Try a racehorse 🤠



Generally a bit tough, probably due to the hard training. OK slow cooked in red wine with mushrooms.


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Try a racehorse 🤠


Shows just how seriously you're taking this.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Shows just how seriously you're taking this.


I have given my views on this matter no wish to keep on milking it.


----------



## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Yes I would like a 18 or 20,mph ebike just to get home faster...


So you keep saying, put another record on.

And we keep saying go and buy a speed pedelec, but you never do.

Stop whittling and get your wallet out, then tell us what its like.


----------



## Solocle (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Does the national speed limit apply to bikes? If so remember - no more than 60mph on a two way road, and save your 70mph attempts for dual carriageways - of course, if the police see you you may be done for 'riding furiously' even if you argue the limits don't apply to you, and remember, no drafting motor vehicles on a public highway!


Nope, and I do want to break NSL someday. 57 mph is pretty close - a good tailwind down Fleet Moss would probably have done it.

Drafting isn't illegal of itself, of course the tailgating aspect could get you done for careless cycling. Didn't stop me drafting an HGV to 48 mph on the Oxford Ring Road 👍





Note that due to the nature of drafting, I was still pedalling the damn thing! You think that you'd still be able to pedal a bike at speeds that it wasn't designed for...

I wouldn't call 50 mph routine, but I've broken it numerous times, and come close yet more.


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

Solocle said:


> Nope, and* I do want to break NSL someday.* 57 mph is pretty close - a good tailwind down Fleet Moss would probably have done it.
> 
> Drafting isn't illegal of itself, of course the tailgating aspect could get you done for careless cycling. Didn't stop me drafting an HGV to 48 mph on the Oxford Ring Road 👍
> View attachment 611834
> ...


One day you'll do it. 
Not notice and only when you check your speed afterwards will you realise.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Cyclists can’t be booked for speeding, but might be fined for ‘cycling furiously’ or ‘riding furiously’ which is an offence under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act.



Well this is what it says

”Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years, . .”

Firstly you have to cause bodily harm to a third party. You cannot be prosecuted for driving furiously unless in doing so you injure a third party. No injury no offence.

Note the bits about wilful neglect. The well known case was more about wilful neglect as the rider made no attempt to brake when they had time to do so before hitting a pedestrian


----------



## carpiste (2 Oct 2021)

🎼 You`re all going round🎵 and round!
🎼let it go, let it go🎵
🎼it`s time to put this thread to rest🎶

🎼Stop bleating 🎵it`s not worth it all🎵
🎼the tune needs to change🎶
🎼The mods need to sort it out some way....

.... let it go!🎵


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> no wish to keep on milking it.



And what better way to stop than by starting a second thread about it!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

See https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/max-speed.280044/


----------



## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

Right, ring these people and buy one, put us put of pur misery.

https://urbanebikes.com/collections/speed-pedelec


----------



## All uphill (2 Oct 2021)

Am I alone in not liking exceeding 25mph on my bike? 

Whether I am or not that's fast enough for me.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

I was linking to the ETA legal advice pages which suggests one may also be prosecuted for speeding only under section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act which mentions it is also an offence for “Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle.” https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89/section/28#commentary-c559973
edit: see also: http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/cycling-o...reasonable consideration for other road users.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

All uphill said:


> Am I alone in not liking exceeding 25mph on my bike?
> 
> Whether I am or not that's fast enough for me.


Probably not. There appear to be a considerable number who appear to be uncomfortable riding at more than 15 mph!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> I was linking to the ETA legal advice pages which suggests one may also be prosecuted for speeding only under section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act which mentions it is also an offence for “Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle.” https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89/section/28#commentary-c559973
> edit: see also: http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/cycling-offences-riding-dangerously-recklessly-carelessly-or-inconsiderately#:~:text=Section 29 outlines the less serious offence of,or without reasonable consideration for other road users.



If you are freewheeling downhill. That is neither riding nor driving furiously

But even if pedalling “furiously” you also got to

“Every person who in any street, to the obstruction, annoyance, or danger of the residents or passengers.”

I don’t think someone saying it was annoying is going to lead anywhere. I think there would still need to be a collision and injury for it to kick in.


----------



## Rusty Nails (2 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Right, ring these people and buy one, put us put of pur misery.
> 
> https://urbanebikes.com/collections/speed-pedelec


Or get a job as an uber/deliveroo/justeat rider.

All their bikes magically go much faster than 15mph.


----------



## Jenkins (2 Oct 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I have a strange sense of déja vu.
> 
> How long until we get to Stalingrad?


Depend if the Americans help out. If they do we will get there 4.5mph faster.


----------



## youngoldbloke (2 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If you are freewheeling downhill. That is neither riding nor driving furiously
> 
> But even if pedalling “furiously” you also got to
> 
> ...


- maybe, depends on the thoughts of any police officer who might witness your high speed cycling exploits.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (2 Oct 2021)

I do wonder where you find a road with no entrances of any kind on either side
including houses, roads, fields tracks

and good enough tarmac

and - most importantly - what brakes and tyres you are using that can stop your bike in a reasonable distance if something unpredicted happens - kid running out after ball for example
or a sheep running away from pretty much anything

I know profressionals can get up to those speeds but they are professionals
and often they are either on race tracks (OK roads - but know to be empty) or they are training on roads they know - and they are by definition amazingly good bike riders
As I suppose are some people on here - but not everyone
if I get to 30 mph I get scared because I do not think I can slow down fast enough - and start braking a bit to slow down

Still - maybe I'm a crap bike rider


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> - maybe, depends on the thoughts of any police officer who might witness your high speed cycling exploits.



I am not aware of any such prosecutions for annoying someone. If you are going faster than the motorised limit and not endangering a third party. Then this law wouldn’t kick in. Plus this law only applies to streets so wouldn’t be applicable on open roads on hills where most of the cycling higher speeds are reached.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I do wonder where you find a road with no entrances of any kind on either side
> including houses, roads, fields tracks
> 
> and good enough tarmac
> ...



Plenty of places out in the countryside you can find those conditions. Plus sheep aren’t everywhere! I’m sure drivers don’t stick to 5mph in case of sheep.

Its why the sighlines are important as they dictate how fast you may need to stop at any speed.


----------



## Mo1959 (2 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Plenty of places out in the countryside you can find those conditions. Plus sheep aren’t everywhere! I’m sure drivers don’t stick to 5mph in case of sheep.


The reason I have a titanium plate and eight screws on my collar bone was hitting a sheep!


----------



## classic33 (2 Oct 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> *I do wonder where you find a road with no entrances of any kind on either side
> including houses, roads, fields tracks
> 
> and good enough tarmac*
> ...


A629, Ainley Top(J24, M62) down to Elland.
A58 down into Littleborough.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> The reason I have a titanium plate and eight screws on my collar bone was hitting a sheep!



Not a sheep free road then 😆


----------



## roubaixtuesday (2 Oct 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Still - maybe I'm a crap bike rider



No. Riding within your limits and at a pace you are comfortable with regardless of perceived pressure from others marks you as an excellent rider. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

carpiste said:


> View attachment 611839
> 
> 
> 🎼 You`re all going round🎵 and round!
> ...


You can say that again I will be having nightmare imaging the chap who recons bikes are built to do 70,mph having to do a emergency stop.


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

Jenkins said:


> Depend if the Americans help out. If they do we will get there 4.5mph faster.


🚴🚴🚴🤠


----------



## Biker man (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> Shows just how seriously you're taking this.


How serious can you take a 70mph cyclist


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (2 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> A629, Ainley Top(J24, M62) down to Elland.
> A58 down into Littleborough.


Fair enough


----------



## Solocle (2 Oct 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I do wonder where you find a road with no entrances of any kind on either side
> including houses, roads, fields tracks
> 
> and good enough tarmac
> ...


The A30 had some uber smooth descents. The A303 does too.

View: https://youtu.be/X-C2-CSEJCY


View: https://youtu.be/nZAyEzVR_X0


----------



## sasquath (2 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Does anyone know why we are out of the EU. Why can't ebikes do the same max speed of 20mph as American ebikes do , we are trying to get a trade deal with America that would be one less obstacle.


Because UK signed and ratified Vienna convention on road traffic and USA didn't.
Recent highway code changes are common across most if not all signatory countries too.
UK has a long way to go to be fully compliant, more highway code changes are coming, hopefully.

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsIII.aspx?chapter=11&mtdsg_no=XI-B-19&src=TREATY#EndDec


----------



## johnnyb47 (2 Oct 2021)

I think the current 15mph for E bikes is just right. Let's be honest a "good" cyclist will usually only average 17/18 mph on a road bike out on a good ride out. Most of us will average much less whilst the super fit will average 20 mph. If you would to increase the legal set speeds of an ebike to 20 mph you would no doubt get people calling them to be upped to 25mph. Where does the line be drawn on this ?
Granted all bikes can be ridden much faster than this, but its usually in short bursts. Hurtling down the Horseshoe Pass i touched 45mph. It felt like a moment of madness as my road bike felt very twitchy, and looking at those thin tyres didn't inspire confidence. Good fun whilst it lasted, but I wouldn't want to do that all the time. 15mph is a good speed to cycle along and its in keeping with the majority of most average cyclists, so why change it. The whole point of an E bike is to make cycling easier for people who struggle to use a normal bike, or for people who live in particularly hilly areas. I cycle with a chap (who's been a life long cyclist) and is now in his late 80s. He's got a very nice road going Ebike and wouldn't be able to come out and enjoy is life long passion of cycling, if it wasn't for his Ebike.
My dad is also in the same position, in that we can both enjoy cycling together, in his aging years, were we can enjoy some quality time together.
In essence, an Ebike should always be classed as an electric assisted bike which is in the same average speed range of a normal bike. If you want a faster electric bike, then they should be registered ones like the Super Soco, or Lexmoto cypher offerings.
Just my two pence worth👍


----------



## Alex321 (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I think most people would think that is bonkers including the police maybe you are on a different planet 😅.



*Some* people who have no clue about road cycling will think that. But probably not many.

I will be surprised if you can find a single experienced road cyclist who thinks 45mph is bonkers. 

And I have seen no evidence anywhere of any police officer thinking it is.

And yes, I do appear to be on a different planet to you. You should try coming to planet earth one day, you might even like it.

All y9ou are doing in this thread is showing that you simply have little to no experience of road cycling.


----------



## Alex321 (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I don't know what that means just thought this was a ebike forum were people talked about ebikes sensible without a load of tosh.


 Well it isn't an ebike forum, it is a general cycling forum, which has a section related to ebikes.

But apart from you, most people do talk "sensible (sic) without a load of tosh". You are the one talking tosh in this thread.


----------



## Alex321 (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Don't know that


That is correct.


> but it certainly is not 70mph .



That is absolutely not correct.

You don't have a clue what speeds bikes are designed for, you admit you don't know, and yet you are "certain".


----------



## Alex321 (3 Oct 2021)

All uphill said:


> Am I alone in not liking exceeding 25mph on my bike?
> 
> Whether I am or not that's fast enough for me.


And that is perfectly fine. Many people aren't happy at higher speeds.

There are only a few roads round here where I am happy exceeding 35mph, but* personally*, I am often happy to do more than 30. But everybody has a maximum speed at which they feel comfortable, and if that is 25 for you, that is absolutely fine.


----------



## classic33 (3 Oct 2021)

70mph, on the road.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1OeUzuwF760


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

Alex321 said:


> Well it isn't an ebike forum, it is a general cycling forum, which has a section related to ebikes.
> 
> But apart from you, most people do talk "sensible (sic) without a load of tosh". You are the one talking tosh in this thread.


I am not boasting about how fast I can go on a bike that is Playground talk.


----------



## CXRAndy (3 Oct 2021)

@Biker man 

I believe that 20mph is fine. 

Do what you want to get your desired speed-but ride responsibly.


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> @Biker man
> 
> I believe that 20mph is fine.
> 
> Do what you want to get your desired speed-but ride responsibly.


Exactly a month ago I was riding through a village near Ruthin in the middle of the road was a Peacock you never know what will come out in front of you.


----------



## gzoom (3 Oct 2021)

Solocle said:


> I wouldn't call 50 mph routine, but I've broken it numerous times, and come close yet more.



The issue though is stopping. If you are drafting a lorry/HGV and they put the anchors on at 50mph you will be road kill very quickly!!

I've done it before in the past but on reflection its a pretty stupid thing to do if you value your limbs staying connected to your body.

I recently ended up having to mount a kerb on my road bike at 20mph+ after someone decided they could just pull out infront of me and expect me to stop as quickly as a car. They honestly didn't understand why a pedal bike cannot stop as quickly as a car, and just drove off thinking I was just another dramatic cyclist.

Lets also not forget pedestrians who will cross the road without looking if they don't hear a car, including parents with push chairs/prams. Trying to sustain anything over 20mph in the city centre on a pedal bike is simply an accident waiting to happen.

Maybe am just getting old but for the sake of my family I've given up trying to chase any kind of high speeds on the pedal bike.

Ebiks are great/enjoyable without needing to pretend to be a motorbike. Going up hill at 15mph with zero effort makes me smile just as much as descending a blind, single track country road at 30mph+.


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Oct 2021)

Welcome to the 'how fast can I cycle downhill' thread!
Actually I can go quite fast downhill on my Orbea Gain e-road bike. it weighs 16kg, light for an ebike but quite heavy for a road bike. On the other hand it is quite difficult to stay with a club group out for a weekend leisure ride, even the steady group, as the speed will often drift up past the 15.5mph assistance cut off, especially on long level stretches or gently undulating roads and false flats. Of course you can pedal harder, but being 74 and having bu88ered legs this soon takes it's toll. I have some advantage on the hills of course but not on the flatter routes. For me an 18mph cut off would be helpful and enable me to take part in club rides much as I did 4 or 5 years ago before my leg issues began.

... and I've heard all the arguments about caring clubmates adjusting their speed, finding others in my position to ride with etc etc etc. It's difficult if you are the only assisted one, to spoil the club ride party. There would be no need if the cut off was raised to a realistic level - perhaps for e- road bikes only.

I believe the original thinking was that a 25kph cut off was quite sufficient for the utility e-bikes in existence at that time, and of course still is, but the development of leisure e-bikes (e-road in particular) has made this figure unrealistic for such bikes.


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

All the playground talk of high speeds on a bike you just don't know what will come out in front of you.A month ago riding through Graig Fechan near Ruthin a large Peacock came across the road and he didn't want to move .


----------



## Mo1959 (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> All the playground talk of high speeds on a bike you just don't know what will come out in front of you.A month ago riding through Graig Fechan near Ruthin a large Peacock came across the road and he didn't want to move .


How many threads on this do you need to start? Most of us are experienced riders and are perfectly capable of risk assessing our riding thanks.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (3 Oct 2021)

The problem with things like "e-road bikes only" is how you write a law that allows an experience, but now older, club rider to keep up with the club to do 18-20 mph using a bit of assist - but not make it so Keith/Mary are doing 20 mph on the shared cycle path while commuting into the city centre on their commuter bike.
How do you define the bike
maybe have a license plate on it?? - Oh - hang on

This is the point
In my view we are in a sort of sweet spot at the moment - where an ebike is classed as legally 'just a bike' so it can be used anywhere a normal bike can legally be used with no restrictions or extra admin or requirements.
Once you have different categories then the cops (or whatever) have to be able to tell if that bike riding down the pedestrianised high street (or shared cycle path or whatever) if one of the slower (15.5 mph) ones or one of the faster ones that is only allowed on the road.

And, of course, and changes to the Highway Code or the Law has to be approved by politicians. And they need votes. And, in case no-one has noticed (and we all have) cyclists are in rather a minority of the voting public - unlike people who read 'those' newspapers that would love to be able to fill a slow news day with massive headlines about how some politician wants to fill the high paved areas with "lycra clad killers on deafening little old ladies with their screaming silent death machine moving at the speed of light" (yes I know it doesn't make sense - I'm writing a headline here!).

So, I feel that the law at the moment is pretty much OK - doesn't suit everyone but suits most ebike riders (look at the ebike forums when this is raised!). Any changes are likely to come at a cost.
I think we were lucky they sneaked the big power increase in in 2016 under the guise of "levelling it up with the EU" . OK we lost the throttle (which I liked) but went from 200W to 250W which makes a huge difference - and yes - I did have one of the old ones so I have experience the difference!

It is sort of like reading stuff on car forums where the people who drive porches and the like want the speed limits increased to 80 or 90 because today's cars are so much better and more powerful than when the speed limits were set.
No politician will do it becuase the first little old lady or child that gets injured (or worse) by someone who would have been illegal but now 'gets away with it' becomes their fault - and they loose their seat or their party looses the election.


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

All the playground talk of fast speeds you never know what will come across the road .A month or so riding through Graig Fechan near Ruthin a large Peacock came across the road and wasn't in a hurry to move .


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Oct 2021)

It's easy, bikes such as the Orbea Gain, Ribble SLe, Scott e-road would come with 18 or 20mph cut off software. The Orbeas exported to the states are so equipped. Otherwise they are identical to the ones sold here. Other bikes would be restricted as appropriate, and clocking bikes would of course remain illegal.
Those who buy e-road bikes are going to ride them faster anyway. People who buy road bikes ride them faster anyway. Keith and Mary might be doing 20mph on the shared path on their commuter e-bikes unassisted, or on their unassisted bikes, if they are are foolhardy. You don't have to use boost all the time, much as you wouldn't floor the accelerator in your car all the time. I can ride my Gain at over 15.5 mph anyway, under leg-power, how can a police officer tell whether its being assisted or not? (even if they could tell it was an e-bike anyway!)
re. licence etc. - why not a little sticker on the frame, much as you have a UCI approved sticker on some road frames? I'd happily pay a fee for such.


----------



## classic33 (3 Oct 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> It's easy, bikes such as the Orbea Gain, Ribble SLe, Scott e-road would come with 18 or 20mph cut off software. The Orbeas exported to the states are so equipped. Otherwise they are identical to the ones sold here. Other bikes would be restricted as appropriate, and clocking bikes would of course remain illegal.
> Those who buy e-road bikes are going to ride them faster anyway. People who buy road bikes ride them faster anyway. Keith and Mary might be doing 20mph on the shared path on their commuter e-bikes unassisted, or on their unassisted bikes if they are are foolhardy. You don't have to use boost all the time, much as you wouldn't floor the accelerator in your car all the time. I can ride my Gain at over 15.5 mph anyway, under leg-power, how can a police officer tell whether its being assisted or not? (even if they could tell it was an e-bike anyway!)
> re. licence etc. - why not a little sticker on the frame, much as you have a UCI approved sticker on some road frames? I'd happily pay a fee for such.


And along with that _"little sticker"_ would go insurance, MOT, licence and helmet. Also roads only.


----------



## winjim (3 Oct 2021)

For the love of God.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Oct 2021)

This is why ebike assistance needs to be limited to 15.5mph.


----------



## FishFright (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Exactly a month ago I was riding through a village near Ruthin in the middle of the road was a Peacock you never know what will come out in front of you.



You might even find yourself in a hole in the dark , in a hole in the dark with an owl !


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

winjim said:


> For the love of God.


No blasphemy thank you


----------



## sasquath (3 Oct 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I think we were lucky they sneaked the big power increase in in 2016 under the guise of "levelling it up with the EU"


Again, highway code changes never had anything to do with EU.

Difference between assisted 20mph and leg power 20 mph is rider, latter has skill and fitness needed to control that bike at 20mph. 80 year old granny doing assisted 20 mph may be too weak to stop at reasonable distance. Of course same can be said about 15.5 mph but, risk of serious or fatal injury drops dramatically with speed reduction.


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

FishFright said:


> You might even find yourself in a hole in the dark , in a hole in the dark with an owl !
> 
> View attachment 611899


Wouldn't give a hoot 😉


----------



## winjim (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> No blasphemy thank you


Stop trolling, we've all read the peacock story already.


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Oct 2021)

classic33 said:


> And along with that _"little sticker"_ would go insurance, MOT, licence and helmet. Also roads only.


We are already legally required to have a sticker giving the rating of the motor. I wonder how often that is checked? Maybe only after an e-bike has been involved in a serious accident, but all bikes are checked aren't they?
I know the law isn't going to change, but I don't understand the resistance to the idea of minor changes to assistance levels. Bikes are not cars where power is unlimited, but people don't drive at maximum speed all the time. Sensible e-bikers don't ride with 'boost' all the time. Some idiots ride unassisted bikes stupidly, other idiots ride e-bikes stupidly, others clock them too. Dire predictions of carnage on the nation's shared paths due to a 5 mph increase in the assistance cut-off speed seem way over the top to me. Idiots will be idiots whatever they are riding, or driving.


----------



## Drago (3 Oct 2021)

Have you bought one yet?

No?

Then spare the rest of us and stop whittling.


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Oct 2021)

sasquath said:


> Again, highway code changes never had anything to do with EU.
> 
> Difference between assisted 20mph and leg power 20 mph is rider, latter has skill and fitness needed to control that bike at 20mph. 80 year old granny doing assisted 20 mph may be too weak to stop at reasonable distance. Of course same can be said about 15.5 mph but, risk of serious or fatal injury drops dramatically with speed reduction.


If your 80 year old grannie wants to take up cycling I suggest you advise her and help her choose the right bike, and maybe point her in the direction of cycle training for those new to cycling.


----------



## Drago (3 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> This is why ebike assistance needs to be limited to 15.5mph.


Absolutely. Someone who can't control a mouse and keyboard shouldn't be let lose with as much as a horsepower.


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> This is why ebike assistance  max speed needs to be limited to 15.5mph.


FTFY
(but only for some )


----------



## Rocky (3 Oct 2021)

I’d like a thread for us slow cyclists please. Could you start one @Biker man ?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Oct 2021)

Jesus this has an R number greater than Covid 19


----------



## Rocky (3 Oct 2021)

I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned this but I’d like a thread for us slowies. Could someone start one please?


----------



## classic33 (3 Oct 2021)

Rocky said:


> I’d like a thread for us slow cyclists please. Could you start one @Biker man ?


Can't be in the Electric Bike sub-forum in that case.


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

Rocky said:


> I’d like a thread for us slow cyclists please. Could you start one @Biker man ?


Yes why not pensioners unite 🤠🚴


----------



## roubaixtuesday (3 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> in the middle of the road was a Peacock



What about the ornamental birds?

Will nobody think of the ornamental birds??


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Have you bought one yet?
> 
> No?
> 
> Then spare the rest of us and stop whittling.


Cash in short supply also selling a used ebike is not easy.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (3 Oct 2021)

NURSE!!!!


----------



## Drago (3 Oct 2021)

Then why don't you start a thread in chat about being shot of readies, rather than threads in hear bemoaning the fact that people can't buy that which is freely available?


----------



## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Then why don't you start a thread in chat about being shot of readies, rather than threads in hear bemoaning the fact that people can't buy that which is freely available?


What are you trying to say Draqo is that your photo or is it Victor Meldrew you sound like him 🤠


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## jowwy (3 Oct 2021)

Do you actually own an ebike????


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## Rickshaw Phil (3 Oct 2021)

Locking this one and I've also merged the superfluous duplicates. @Biker man please do not start any more.

That's all folks, move along.


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