# About turbo trainers...



## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

I've decided that a turbo would suit me, so I've started to look into them, starting from a base of pretty much zero (my uncle used to have one in the dining room and I remember going on it as a kid. Apart from that I know nothing)

So far I've discovered

1) Magnetic ones can be noisy - how noisy, though? If I use it indoors it will have to be in the kitchen, below the kid's bedroom. Is it 'wake a child from the floor below' loud? Or annoy the OH in the front room loud?

2) Fluid ones are more expensive but quieter - how quiet?

3) Fluid ones (the cheaper ones, anyway) don't have a resistance adjustment as such, they just get harder the faster the wheel goes - so I suppose if you want lots of resistance but not to be pedalling like a fixed wheel going off a cliff you just change gear on the bike?

4) There are a lot of software options. I think I would like to use Golden Cheetah because
a) it's free
b) I use Linux
c) It looks packed full of information. I love a spreadsheet

I *think* I can get Golden Cheetah to talk to the bike if I fit it with a cadence sensor and speed sensor on the rear wheel (I believe the rear wheel sensor will give the best proxy for power without buying a power meter?) and get a chest strap hear monitor thing? Any advice here much appreciated, with turbos in general and with Golden Cheetah specifically.

The ones that adjust resistance automatically according to the training plan look excellent, but a but pricey - and also magnetic at any reasonable price, so I'd have the issue of noise (or I could use it outside, but then if it runs of the mains that will be an issue if it's raining!) On this basis I think I'm currently looking at a s/h fluid trainer to see how I get on, but as I say, I'm probably missing something, so any input would be much appreciated. I'm not aiming to 'compete' - I just want to get fitter!


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## S-Express (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> So far I've discovered
> 
> 1) Magnetic ones can be noisy - how noisy, though?



Mag turbos are not noisy. Where did you discover that they were?


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

S-Express said:


> Mag turbos are not noisy. Where did you discover that they were?


I've seen it mentioned loads of places when I've been doing research - this is typical

*Noise*
Perhaps the least attractive aspect of a turbo trainer is the noise they make. It can sound like a plane taking off and that can pose problems if you live in close proximity to your neighbours. - http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide...rollers-—-smart-and-traditional-home-trainers


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## S-Express (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> I've seen it mentioned loads of places when I've been doing research - this is typical
> 
> *Noise*
> Perhaps the least attractive aspect of a turbo trainer is the noise they make. It can sound like a plane taking off and that can pose problems if you live in close proximity to your neighbours. - http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/217308-16-best-turbo-trainers-and-rollers-—-smart-and-traditional-home-trainers



Can't see anywhere in that link where mag trainers are specifically referred to as 'noisy'. Either way, the only noise from a mag turbo will be from the tyre/roller interface, ie same as any other turbo. Fan trainers are obviously noisy, but mag trainers - because of how magnets work - are not noisy, by definition.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

Mag turbos are very quiet. Especially compared to the old 'turbo fan' ones. You can hear laptop speakers over a mag turbo. I have a Tacx Smart turbo as it does give you compatibility with Zwift, bkool, trainer road and others.

I would also recommend to use the turbo somewhere cool with fan(s).

Keep an eye out on sales as I managed to get my turbo with over £60 off.


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

S-Express said:


> Can't see anywhere in that link where mag trainers are specifically referred to as 'noisy'. Either way, the only noise from a mag turbo will be from the tyre/roller interface, ie same as any other turbo. Fan trainers are obviously noisy, but mag trainers - because of how magnets work - are not noisy, by definition.


Fluid trainers are noticeably quieter than magnetic trainers, which is especially important for apartment dwellers. - http://www.livestrong.com/article/342113-fluid-vs-magnetic-bike-trainers/

As far as noise levels are concerned, magnetic turbo trainers sit somewhere between loud wind trainers and almost silent fluid trainers. - http://biketrainer.reviews/magnetic-resistance-trainers-guide/

One issue is that the system heats up and therefore most mag trainers use an additional fan to help cool things down. This can generate a fair amount of noise, so mag trainers can be quiet noisy. - http://turbobiketrainer.com/magnetic-indoor-turbo-trainers/

That sort of thing - as I say I'm new to all this; the impression I've got reading around is that mag ones are noisier than fluid ones, and some are quite loud.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

As someone who has used a 'turbo' fan, a simple adjustable resistance mag trainer and a smart mag trainer, the noise you get from the mag trainers is minimal. Gears, tyre noise, heavy breathing are louder. That's from experience and not articles. I use mine in the garage as I have the space - the house would be too hot. The mag trainers just get warm.

Turbo fan trainers will drown out the radio.


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## S-Express (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> That sort of thing - as I say I'm new to all this; the impression I've got reading around is that mag ones are noisier than fluid ones, and some are quite loud.



It's simply not true that mag trainers make more noise than fluid. As I said before, assuming both use a roller, the noise issue will be about the same. If the trainer uses a fan for any reason, then the fan will create noise. Many mag trainers (such as models from Tacx or Minoura and probably others) do not use fans, so therefore create no extra noise.

I have two mag trainers - a Tacx Bluematic and a Minoura V130 and both are extremely quiet. The only noise comes from the tyre on the roller.



KneesUp said:


> As far as noise levels are concerned, magnetic turbo trainers sit somewhere between loud wind trainers and almost silent fluid trainers. - http://biketrainer.reviews/magnetic-resistance-trainers-guide/



Have another read. The same article also says that mag trainers can be as quiet as fluid.


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## CanucksTraveller (13 Feb 2017)

Hi @KneesUp
My research found the same as you, that mag trainers were generally regarded as "a bit noisy". That worried me too, particularly as my daughter sleeps upstairs and I didn't want to be banished to the cold garage, so I understand your feeling. 

I've got the TACX BlueMatic Smart which is magnetic. If I'm on it, I can certainly ride it with no complaints from my wife watching telly in the adjoining lounge. Similarly, she can ride it while I'm working (no telly on) in the lounge, and all I can hear is a low level hum. Most of that is tyre noise I suspect. My daughter's not been woken up up by it yet. So yes they create a little bit of low frequency noise and vibration, but it's not loud or excessive and I don't think it'll bother anyone in your house.


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> As someone who has used a 'turbo' fan, a simple adjustable resistance mag trainer and a smart mag trainer, the noise you get from the mag trainers is minimal. Gears, tyre noise, heavy breathing are louder. *That's from experience and not articles*. I use mine in the garage as I have the space - the house would be too hot. The mag trainers just get warm.
> 
> Turbo fan trainers will drown out the radio.


That's what I'm after  

Now this may well be a totally daft question, but can you keep them outdoors? I can't see why a fluid one would be bothered by being outside, although I can see why a mag one might not be sealed and therefore the internals could get water in, which might be an issue. I don't have a garage or shed I can use, but there is some space out the back of the house that is concreted, so I could use it there.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

I wouldn't keep them outdoors, but you can use them outdoors. You could use it in the kitchen with windows or doors open. You will need a fan though, and an electrical supply if using a smart trainer. If you don't have space indoors to store one, then I'd maybe get a garden storage unit. They aren't sealed units so you'd not want rain getting in the mechanicals.


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## CanucksTraveller (13 Feb 2017)

I'd store it indoors and carry it outside, much as that's a bit of a minor faff, at least it's only an extra 5 minutes to set up. I can't see a mag trainer doing well out in the elements.


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## S-Express (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> I can't see why a fluid one would be bothered by being outside, although I can see why a mag one might not be sealed and therefore the internals could get water in, which might be an issue.



The fluid resistance unit will not be affected by the weather - but then neither will a few magnets. It's the roller drums, bearings and frame pivots you need to worry about.


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> I wouldn't keep them outdoors, but you can use them outdoors. You could use it in the kitchen with windows or doors open. You will need a fan though, and an electrical supply if using a smart trainer. If you don't have space indoors to store one, then I'd maybe get a garden storage unit. They aren't sealed units so you'd not want rain getting in the mechanicals.



I was avoiding a 'smart' trainer for this reason. Also because I don't really know if I'll get on with it, so I'm getting a cheap one first. Perhaps if I have a garage one dat I'll get a 'smart' one. I think I'm right in saying that some transmitters fitted to the bike frame and an HR monitor on me will send useable data to Golden Cheetah - which might not be very well callibrated, but will at least be consistent.


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## Venod (13 Feb 2017)

A lot depends on your boredom threshold and your ability to switch off, I never enjoyed a normal turbo and a hour was my maximum, but with a a smart trainer that alters resistance and follows routes/films I have ridden upwards of 2 hours, for me a fan is essential as I tend to sweat heavily, the drawback is the cost of smart trainers, I can recommend the Tacx Neo .

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/09/trainer-everything-wanted.html


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

In theory I like the idea of a Smart one, but cost and space are the issues mean I can't really justify one at the moment, especially as I've never used one at all - I'd be happy enough leaving a fluid or mag on in my bike shed I think, and I think the best place to use it on a dry day would be outside the house next to the bike shed - I can see straight into the dining room from there, so I can set my laptop up so I can see it and the sensors communicate (hopefully) Pair of cordless headphones and I'm set I think.

My thoughts are to get a second-hand one and see how I get on. If I love it, maybe I'll rethink the smart trainer and I can always re-sell the second-hand one.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> I was avoiding a 'smart' trainer for this reason. Also because I don't really know if I'll get on with it, so I'm getting a cheap one first. Perhaps if I have a garage one dat I'll get a 'smart' one. I think I'm right in saying that some transmitters fitted to the bike frame and an HR monitor on me will send useable data to Golden Cheetah - which might not be very well callibrated, but will at least be consistent.



I've no idea what Golden Cheetah is, but I assume it's some open source programme. If you have Garmin sensors and similar Ant+ HR monitors then they can be picked up by an Ant+ dongle for your laptop/computer. One slight spanner in your works is that the range isn't great. I run a 2m USB extension lead to the Ant+ sensor which is tied to the leg of the turbo. You'll have to get that wire out to near your sensors. If the computer is in the house, you may have a problem.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

The whole point of a turbo is you can use it if you don't fancy getting soaked in bad weather. I.e nice days you go for a real ride.


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## amasidlover (13 Feb 2017)

I've used Golden Cheetah and was quite happy with it for doing workouts with intervals; as it controls the resistance automatically on my trainer - without a workout to focus on I found I got bored too easily (and have subscribed to Zwift).

Incidentally, providing you're not looking to do much sprint training (since it has a max wattage around 700W) then this is not much more than a non-smart trainer sensors: http://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/trainers/tacx-flow-t2240-smart-turbo-trainer

As far as I know this is the cheapest controllable trainer (ANT+ FE-C) you can buy. I've been using mine twice a week; although I did break the first one somehow and returned it for a refund then bought again...


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> The whole point of a turbo is you can use it if you don't fancy getting soaked in bad weather. I.e nice days you go for a real ride.


There is that - thing is by the time I get in from work, eat, do parenting, do bedtime and then do adulting (tidying, dishwasher-loading, packed lunch making etc) it's gone 9 o'clock, and often nearer 10. I don't mind getting wet really, but I don't really like the idea of heading out for a ride at that time. The idea of the turbo is that I can get some decent exercise done in quite a concentrated way.


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2017)

KneesUp said:


> There is that - thing is by the time I get in from work, eat, do parenting, do bedtime and then do adulting (tidying, dishwasher-loading, packed lunch making etc) it's gone 9 o'clock, and often nearer 10. I don't mind getting wet really, but I don't really like the idea of heading out for a ride at that time. The idea of the turbo is that I can get some decent exercise done in quite a concentrated way.



Similar to myself. If the weather is bad, consider where indoors you could use it.


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## Yorksman (2 Mar 2017)

There is no noise from the magnetic brake on a turbo trainer as there is no contact at that point. The point of contact that generates any noise is that between the bike wheel and the roller. Using even hybrid road tyres will cause some vibration and noise. You really need a turbo trainer tyre which is very smooth. Some people use a special mat underneath, but it's not as good as having a TT tyre. This does cause a problem for those who want to use the bike both on a turbo and on the road. The best solution is have two wheels, each with the relevant tyre. It is much more convenient though just to use a cheap 2nd hand bike on the turbo. Weight doesn't matter and it doesn't need lots of gears. It saves you a lot of problems.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Mar 2017)

Yorksman said:


> There is no noise from the magnetic brake on a turbo trainer as there is no contact at that point. The point of contact that generates any noise is that between the bike wheel and the roller. Using even hybrid road tyres will cause some vibration and noise. You really need a turbo trainer tyre which is very smooth. Some people use a special mat underneath, but it's not as good as having a TT tyre. This does cause a problem for those who want to use the bike both on a turbo and on the road. The best solution is have two wheels, each with the relevant tyre. It is much more convenient though just to use a cheap 2nd hand bike on the turbo. Weight doesn't matter and it doesn't need lots of gears. It saves you a lot of problems.


On the other hand direct drive trainers save you having two wheels, tyres don't matter and in general the noise levels are unrivalled quiet


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## BILL S (4 Mar 2017)

fossyant said:


> The whole point of a turbo is you can use it if you don't fancy getting soaked in bad weather. I.e nice days you go for a real ride.



The trouble with smart trainers is that you may start out as you suggested but they can turn you into a 100% indoor cyclist as has happened to me. They are great for satisfying your competitive instincts.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/team-bkool-cyclechat.144689/page-2191


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## fossyant (5 Mar 2017)

BILL S said:


> The trouble with smart trainers is that you may start out as you suggested but they can turn you into a 100% indoor cyclist as has happened to me. They are great for satisfying your competitive instincts.
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/team-bkool-cyclechat.144689/page-2191



That's not happened to me. It's useful tool, but I still prefer to be outside.


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