# Coasting in 10 mile TT



## grellboy (21 Jun 2018)

Doing the local TT tonight got caught by my minute and 2 minute man!!! As they sailed serenely passed I noticed how they didn't seem to coast at all even on downward slopes. In contrast I virtually had my flip flops on, such was my coasting. Had previously regarded coasting as a vital time to regather energy, now I am not so sure. Took a pic of my cadence data. Should a decent TT effort have fewer dips or even none?


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## Ian H (21 Jun 2018)

You don't stop pedalling in a time trial.


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## ColinJ (21 Jun 2018)

I'm not a time triallist but the idea of coasting in a TT seems distinctly odd! I would have thought that you'd make sure that you had a big enough gear that you could carry on pedalling even on the downhills and be going at a rate that was just a smidge under that which would induce projectile vomiting! (Until you got to the finish line that is, when puking might be acceptable.)


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## Sharky (22 Jun 2018)

There is a point on fast descents where freewheeling and a good tuck position is faster than pedaling, but otherwise just keep pedaling. As I usually ride fixed, I've never reached that point. I once hit 44mph at the start of a 10 on the Tonbridge bypass course, which has a gift down hill section and I really wished that I could coast, but was on fixed.


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## Tin Pot (22 Jun 2018)

On a perfect course/performance it would be like a velodrome TT. Constant even power over all gradients.

Can’t say I’ve ever had much luck doing that in TTS or triathlons.



Sharky said:


> There is a point on fast descents where freewheeling and a good tuck position is faster than pedaling, but otherwise just keep pedaling. As I usually ride fixed, I've never reached that point. I once hit 44mph at the start of a 10 on the Tonbridge bypass course, which has a gift down hill section and I really wished that I could coast, but was on fixed.



Same course I believe I had to coast/brake to avoid being killed by HGVs on the dual carriageways.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2018)

Keep pedallng!
If you’re not throwing-up in the hedge after you’ve stopped the clock you’ve not been pedalling hard enough....


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## KneesUp (22 Jun 2018)

Do people do this for fun?


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## Phaeton (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I once hit 44mph at the start of a 10 on the Tonbridge bypass course


Not that I am doubting you, but how could you keep up with the cadence at that kind of speed, you're probably spinning at over 300-400 times a minute


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## Sharky (22 Jun 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Not that I am doubting you, but how could you keep up with the cadence at that kind of speed, you're probably spinning at over 300-400 times a minute


I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.


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## smutchin (22 Jun 2018)

ColinJ said:


> I'm not a time triallist but the idea of coasting in a TT seems distinctly odd!



I'm only an occasional time-triallist but I too find the idea of coasting very odd.


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## Ian H (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.



The 25 record for 'medium gear'* still stands firm.
53.23 — The late Zak Carr.

*72"


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## Ian H (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.



My best, not in competition, was down Trow Hill towards Sidford some 20 odd years ago: 42mph on a 67" fixed. My heart-rate was much higher at the bottom of the hill than at the top. I can still twiddle, but not like that.


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## Ajay (22 Jun 2018)

Its a flat course so I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of peaks and troughs. If you're feeling the need to coast I'd suggest that you're going out too hard. As I'm sure you know, pacing is fundamental in time trialling. You can't worry about being caught, in amateur events there is always a huge variety of ability/experience/equipment. Focus only on your time in comparison to your previous efforts.


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## palinurus (22 Jun 2018)

The only regular coasting I ever did was once a year on the club hilly 20 miler*- on one downhill I'd get up a good speed in the highest gear and then flatten myself on the bike as much as I could and coast to recover for the flattish couple of miles that followed. I only did this because it was a good descent and the recovery was a benefit later (3 laps so it was a nice little rest)

*The main ascent on that race was the only time I'd pull away from some of the bigger, faster, riders in the club. They'd catch me later once it flattened out.

*Still sore at the racing sec. describing that hill as a 'big ring' hill. First time I rode it I confidently hit it in the 54, was almost stationary about 30s later.

*It was also the worst course in terms of probability of becoming stuck behind a tractor.


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## cyberknight (22 Jun 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> Keep pedallng!
> If you’re not throwing-up in the hedge after you’ve stopped the clock you’ve not been pedalling hard enough....


Never done a TT, i do go out sometimes on a 24 mile loop which i aim to hammer it , no coasting as im on the rivet all the way .This can hurt more than a 60 mile club run !


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## Tin Pot (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.



I go by my GPS recorded velocity and see just over 60kph at some point not uncommonly.

I’d be downhilling about 120rpm on 50x11 then coasting for that. The only benefit of my 80+kg, don’t try to take it away from me!


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.


Big gear alert!!!


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## Sharky (22 Jun 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> Big gear alert!!!


I've got a 13 sprocket as well, but that is a little too high.


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## midlife (22 Jun 2018)

I used to coast sometimes on Hull Thursday Boxing Day 10..........mind you I think that was the beer and Southern Comfort. Lol


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> I've got a 13 sprocket as well, but that is a little too high.


I’m a 73” meself.....


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I hardly need to add that I know nothing about TT'ing.


What’s to know? Pedal as hard as you possibly can ‘till it hurts and then pedal a bit harder. Finish, vomit!


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## cyberknight (23 Jun 2018)

You see these TT bikes with aero bars , instead of a water bottle between them you could install a sick bag .


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Given that these are on open roads, surely you're going to need to coast a bit when you have to interact with other traffic. Even if it's down the road, round the roundabout and then back up the road then you're going to be coasting a bit on the approach to the roundabout?



I don't think TT routes on open roads are allowed to go round roundabouts these days - or at least it's not recommended (elf-n-safety-gawn-maaad, innit). Our club 10 route used to involve negioting a rather horrible roundabout at the end of the dual carriageway - the roundabout is notorious as a bit of an accident blackspot and is one of the things that used to put me off doing the club 10. Now the route has changed so you turn left at the roundabout onto a minor lane, cross over the dual carriageway via a bridge and filter back onto the other side.*

Of course, if it's not safe to join the dual carriageway, you do have to wait at the give way lines - even if you're on for a PB.

Anyway, to answer your question... yes, you may have to coast a bit on the approach to a couple of junctions. But that's not what the OP was talking about - coasting on open road sections simply means you're not trying hard enough.


*In case that's not clear, this is what it looks like on Strava:






https://www.strava.com/routes/13952082


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## palinurus (23 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Given that these are on open roads, surely you're going to need to coast a bit when you have to interact with other traffic. Even if it's down the road, round the roundabout and then back up the road then you're going to be coasting a bit on the approach to the roundabout?


 
Yes, assuming riding with a freewheel, but it's dependent on the junction, the traffic at that particular moment, and indications from the marshalls. Sometimes they'll indicate it is clear, they probably aren't supposed to but they do- especially where the junction has relatively light traffic and it's possible to make an unambiguous call.

Stopping is a good example. Usually coasting or stopping wouldn't do your performance any good but if there's temporary lights on the route or a pedestrian crossing you should stop.

I once did a 50 where I got stopped at a very long-sequence temporary light on the way out and on the way back. Also had a regular marshalling gig at a pedestrian crossing- didn't like it, there was a sort of unspoken expectation that you would dissuade pedestrians from pressing the button so if anyone had to stop they'd give me a look, and of course I had to report riders when they didn't stop. It was an early start though- there weren't many people up and about to press the button.


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## Sharky (23 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> I don't think TT routes on open roads are allowed to go round roundabouts these days - or at least it's not recommended (elf-n-safety-gawn-maaad, innit). Our club 10 route used to involve negioting a rather horrible roundabout at the end of the dual carriageway - the roundabout is notorious as a bit of an accident blackspot and is one of the things that used to put me off doing the club 10. Now the route has changed so you turn left at the roundabout onto a minor lane, cross over the dual carriageway via a bridge and filter back onto the other side.*
> 
> Of course, if it's not safe to join the dual carriageway, you do have to wait at the give way lines - even if you're on for a PB.
> 
> ...




That's a Q course I think. That bridge is a killer, especially on the 25 course when you have to do it twice.

There are lots of Q courses that turn at roundabouts still, but if there is a safer alternative, I guess the course designer would take the safest route.
Thinking back to my early years, lots of courses had U-turns. A marshal stood in the middle of the road and you had to ride round him!


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2018)

Sharky said:


> That's a Q course I think.



Yep - Q10/30, to be precise.

I'm marshalling the 25 tomorrow (Q25/10). I would ride it but... nah, I don't really want to do a 25-mile TT, thanks.


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## viniga (25 Jun 2018)

No law against coasting! 

I would coast if, a) I didn't have the right gear for the hill b) If i needed to slow down / manoeuvring or c) I needed to recover as my pacing was off 

Given the description of your course it sounds like you could be losing time on these sections. 

NB I have heard that keeping the legs spinning, even if not pushing out power, helps clear the lactic acid.

Good luck on your next attempt.


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## HLaB (25 Jun 2018)

My best times last year coincided with me getting a power meter and realising I eased of and coasted too much on descents. To go faster it was better if I gave less uphill and maximised the downhill.


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## fossyant (26 Jun 2018)

You drop too much time by coasting. You need to be on the power. Hit the hills hard, recover but still pedal. There are a good few seconds lost by coasting.


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## grellboy (26 Jun 2018)

HLaB said:


> My best times last year coincided with me getting a power meter and realising I eased of and coasted too much on descents. To go faster it was better if I gave less uphill and maximised the downhill.


Just got a power meter! Expect to see massive gains - well, maybe some little ones!


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## grellboy (26 Jun 2018)

viniga said:


> No law against coasting!
> 
> I would coast if, a) I didn't have the right gear for the hill b) If i needed to slow down / manoeuvring or c) I needed to recover as my pacing was off
> 
> ...


Thank you. 
Will give this week's event a miss due to England Belgium but hopefully by next Thursday will have had several rides without any huge gaps in cadence and see if that makes a difference.


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## grellboy (12 Jul 2018)

OP here. Did my first TT since posting this original post. Just took 1 min 15 off the time I set originally. Tried pacing the ride using power meter but also made sure I didn't coast. Made pretty big difference, so thanks all for your tips.


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## Cuchilo (1 Aug 2018)

I was a hillingdon a few years back doing some training and a few other guys where there but only putting the power down on the hairpin bend . We got chatting and it turned out the slower rider was beating the faster one by about 15-20 seconds on that course but not on other courses . Pedaling around the bend gained about 2 - 3 seconds and you go around it 11 times .


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## Kempstonian (28 Oct 2018)

So don't they race on courses with roundabouts now?

Actually the only time I nearly fell off was at a roundabout - on a wet road in the race I'm doing in my avatar! I'm actually negotiating one in the pic but its a pretty big one so wasn't difficult. The other two were smaller.

The course was a straight out and back with a nasty turn into a lane at the start & finish and three roundabouts. Go over the first two and turn at the third one. I came to the last one on the way back and half way round it my back wheel slipped sideways but luckily my front wheel then did the same, so I was able to recover. Then I looked behind me and there was a car about 10 metres away! My legs went to jelly just at the point where I should have been putting maximum effort in! Another club member did actually fall at the turn roundabout.

Needless to say I was nowhere near a PB that day 

(That was on the E4 course for anyone old enough to remember it. The F4 course had four roundabouts, including London Colney, which we had to negotiate at least 3 times)


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## Kempstonian (28 Oct 2018)

Sharky said:


> I was on a 95" fixed (50x14) and at 44mph, that is about 158 revs per minute. It was well above my comfort zone and only lasts for about 15 seconds before it begins to flatten out, But was scary.


95"??? Blimey, how did you push that one round for 25 miles? I know I couldn't have done. I rode 84" and that was tough enough at times.

My hat goes off to you sir!


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## Sharky (29 Oct 2018)

Kempstonian said:


> 95"??? Blimey, how did you push that one round for 25 miles? I know I couldn't have done. I rode 84" and that was tough enough at times.
> 
> My hat goes off to you sir!


A lot of people say to me how can you ride that, but in practice, it's not as hard as you imagine. I find on a flat TT course and even those with the odd incline, I just find a rhythm and keep peddling. I've experimented with various ranges from 84" to 103" and for me 95" just seems to be the right ratio to cope with the odd incline and the rapid return when the wind is behind me. At my age (68), I find the lower cadence suits me, especially after featuring my pelvis 18 mths ago!

Also worth comparing with geared riders. They can be on a 50x11 or higher, which is a fair bit higher. So probably on parts of the course I am over geared and others probably under geared. A couple of seasons ago, I was riding two bikes. One fixed and one geared. By the end of the season, the difference was only 20secs.

Cheers
PS your avatar picture is a classic. Late 50's/Early 60's?


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## Kempstonian (29 Oct 2018)

Yes, that's me in July 1964, riding in the Elite CC 25 race on the E4 course. Happy days!


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## Zipp2001 (28 Jan 2019)

I've done well over 300 club TT and on several different courses and depending on the terrain of the course would switch out rear cassettes to make sure I had the proper gearing, no coasting.


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## rogerzilla (29 Jan 2019)

Our local course has a slight downhill after the start and I needed 48 x 14 to get power down in that bit. It's surprisingly easy to trickle around on a 90" gear, even over steep bridge approaches. Who needs gears?


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## ReubenHenly (7 Jan 2020)

Ian H said:


> The 25 record for 'medium gear'* still stands firm.
> 53.23 — The late Zak Carr.
> 
> *72"



This is off topic but Zak was my uncle, I just want to say that it’s wonderful to see people still keeping his legacy alive. Thank you


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## Ian H (7 Jan 2020)

ReubenHenly said:


> This is off topic but Zak was my uncle, I just want to say that it’s wonderful to see people still keeping his legacy alive. Thank you



His name still comes up often in time-trialling circles. He was a tragic loss.


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## Bill Gates (20 Jan 2020)

Uphill followed by downhil. You can put more time into your rivals by pushing very hard into the uphill section of a short TT. Conversely you can recover on the downhill even freewheeling in steeper sections and not lose very much at all whilst recovering for the final surge to the line. It's all about good pace judgement and knowing your body responses.


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## Bill Gates (29 Jan 2020)

Sharky said:


> A lot of people say to me how can you ride that, but in practice, it's not as hard as you imagine. I find on a flat TT course and even those with the odd incline, I just find a rhythm and keep peddling. *I've experimented with various ranges from 84" to 103" and for me 95" just seems to be the right ratio to cope with the odd incline and the rapid return when the wind is behind me.* At my age (68), I find the lower cadence suits me, especially after featuring my pelvis 18 mths ago!
> 
> Also worth comparing with geared riders. They can be on a 50x11 or higher, which is a fair bit higher. So probably on parts of the course I am over geared and others probably under geared. A couple of seasons ago, I was riding two bikes. One fixed and one geared. By the end of the season, the difference was only 20secs.
> 
> ...



My chain ring was 56 and I had a rear cassette of 4 rings; 13/14/15/16. My bread and butter gear was 56/15 (101") which when I turned at around 100 revs. per minute was 30 mph. 56/16 (94") was reserved for power climbs and the two top gears for tailwinds and downhill sections.
My cranks were 177.5 mm


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