# Awful headaches after wearing a helmet



## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

I've just finished a heck of a hard ride ( well I finished at 12 but) and despite it being one heck of an effort I feel fine, apart from my head, I always seem to get the worst headache in the world after wearing a helmet , why ?


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## Rob3rt (18 Sep 2011)

Does it fit right/is it adjusted right? I get headaches from glasses if I wear them for a long time, I think its where they press beind my ears.

Also what ride did you do?


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> Does it fit right/is it adjusted right? I get headaches from glasses if I wear them for a long time, I think its where they press beind my ears.
> 
> Also what ride did you do?




Here is the eternal question - how does one know ?


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## MontyVeda (18 Sep 2011)

could it be dehydration rather than the helmet?


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## Dayvo (18 Sep 2011)

Are you wearing it the right way round?


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> could it be dehydration rather than the helmet?




No- Blackpool , I rode longer and harder and took on the same water, no helmet, no headache


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Dayvo said:


> Are you wearing it the right way round?




Eternal question 2 lol


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Here is the eternal question - how does one know ?



Fit the helmet so that it is a fingers width away from your eyes. Tighten it so that it stays on when you lean your head down but can be removed without any effort. A tell-tail signs or a tight fitting helmet is a red light across the forehead.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Fit the helmet so that it is a fingers width away from your eyes. Tighten it so that it stays on when you lean your head down but can be removed without any effort. A tell-tail signs or a tight fitting helmet is a red light across the forehead.



without sounding vexatious, where was this info gotten from? every helmet manufacturer will have different instructions, for example specialized have a ratcheting system below the ear line and some others have it above. i'm just pointing out that every helmet is different and gary is an experienced rider.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> without sounding vexatious, where was this info gotten from? every helmet manufacturer will have different instructions, for example specialized have a ratcheting system below the ear line and some others have it above. i'm just pointing out that every helmet is different.



This is basic information that has been taught on every cycling course I have been on.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> This is basic information that has been taught on every cycling course I have been on.




fair enough. but my bern helmet that i wear in winter can't be fitted that way.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> fair enough. but my bern helmet that i wear in winter can't be fitted that way.



In which way? That it can't be set at just above eye level or it can't be tightened, slackened off?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Sep 2011)

eye level and removed without effort, it's totally different to open vents ones, it sits low and kinda 'hooks' onto my head with the fastener at the back. it came with instructions tho so i know how to fit it, level, front to back and side to side. if i wore my open vented one that snug, i'd be asking for headaches.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> eye level and removed without effort, it's totally different to open vents ones, it sits low and kinda 'hooks' onto my head with the fastener at the back. it came with instructions tho so i know how to fit it. if i wore my open vented one that snug, i'd be asking for headaches.



Fair enough. Maybe I should have clarified that I was talking about open vented cycle helmets.


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## ianrauk (18 Sep 2011)

ditch the helmet and wear a cycling cap instead.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I've just finished a heck of a hard ride ( well I finished at 12 but) and despite it being one heck of an effort I feel fine, apart from my head, I always seem to get the worst headache in the world after wearing a helmet , why ?



does this mean you don't get headaches without helmets?


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> does this mean you don't get headaches without helmets?




Spot on mate


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Fit the helmet so that it is a fingers width away from your eyes. Tighten it so that it stays on when you lean your head down but can be removed without any effort. A tell-tail signs or a tight fitting helmet is a red light across the forehead.




Thanks buddy


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Thanks buddy


Please don't take it as trying to teach you to suck eggs (whatever the hell that means?).


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## Norm (18 Sep 2011)

It could also be wind noise made worse by the helmet straps, if it was a long-ish ride.


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Please don't take it as trying to teach you to suck eggs (whatever the hell that means?).


Heck no, I'm new to all this helmet stuff and I don't like


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## Red Light (18 Sep 2011)

I would try another helmet. Constant pressure on some parts of the skull can cause a headache. As someone else mentioned, sunglasses can be a common cause if the arms press too hard on the head. If you try another helmet it will likely apply pressure in a different place which may or may not make matters better.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> I would try another helmet. Constant pressure on some parts of the skull can cause a headache. As someone else mentioned, sunglasses can be a common cause if the arms press too hard on the head. If you try another helmet it will likely apply pressure in a different place which may or may not make matters better.


That is a very good point. Great call


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## Nebulous (18 Sep 2011)

I've a pretty big head, and at one point a long time ago I was in a car accident where I probably had a depressed fracture of the skull. I had a 5 or 6 year old helmet which gave me a headache every time I wore it. It started where I had the head injury and eventually spread to the whole right-side of my head. 

At the end of last year I took up cycling quite seriously and got a Specialized max helmet, which is a funny looking object, designed for big heads and relatively cheap. I haven't had a headache since, in fact I hadn't even thought about it for months until reading your post. 

The point isn't to rush out and buy a 'Max' but that all helmets are not the same- and fit is very important.


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Nebulous said:


> I've a pretty big head, and at one point a long time ago I was in a car accident where I probably had a depressed fracture of the skull. I had a 5 or 6 year old helmet which gave me a headache every time I wore it. It started where I had the head injury and eventually spread to the whole right-side of my head.
> 
> At the end of last year I took up cycling quite seriously and got a Specialized max helmet, which is a funny looking object, designed for big heads and relatively cheap. I haven't had a headache since, in fact I hadn't even thought about it for months until reading your post.
> 
> The point isn't to rush out and buy a 'Max' but that all helmets are not the same- and fit is very important.




Good point well made

Ps that sounds nasty


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## mr Mag00 (18 Sep 2011)

fit, fit and well...............................fit



all important


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## Norm (18 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549316"] Are you eating properly before and during? If your diet isn't right then you're opening yourself up for all kinds of symptoms. [/quote] And drinking. I get headaches if I don't drink (dehydration is an obvious thing... unless you are suffering from it at the time) but I think that history suggests that eating correctly might also be a factor in this case.


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Norm said:


> And drinking. I get headaches if I don't drink (dehydration is an obvious thing... unless you are suffering from it at the time) but I think that history suggests that eating correctly might also be a factor in this case.




But

It's never been an issue on any other ride before

Only now I'm wearing a helmet ( same issues on commute too)


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## fossyant (18 Sep 2011)

Is it an all over ache or just in one spot. In one spot then I would say too tight. If not, could be dehydration. What did you drink on the 55 miles. Me would be a couple of bottles of energy drink and a banana and a flapjack or cereal bar.


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> Is it an all over ache or just in one spot. In one spot then I would say too tight. If not, could be dehydration. What did you drink on the 55 miles. Me would be a couple of bottles of energy drink and a banana and a flapjack or cereal bar.




Had a couple of bottles and 3 gels

It's an all over headache tbh


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## Crackle (18 Sep 2011)

It's gotta to be fit. How tight is the chin strap?


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## david1701 (18 Sep 2011)

still thinking holistically were the gels a new type? am allergic to caffeine and more than 1 or 2 coffees gives me a cracker of a headache


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

david1701 said:


> still thinking holistically were the gels a new type? am allergic to caffeine and more than 1 or 2 coffees gives me a cracker of a headache




Nop not a new type


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## gb155 (18 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> It's gotta to be fit. How tight is the chin strap?



Loose


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## david1701 (18 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Nop not a new type



dam that was all that occurred to me, will ponder over it some more.


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## potsy (18 Sep 2011)

Dehydration from the very large effort you are putting in would be my thought Gaz.
Do you have plenty to drink afterwards?


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## buggi (18 Sep 2011)

is your helmet too tight or is it pressing down on your glasses?


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## HLaB (19 Sep 2011)

I find that sometimes a skull cap under the helmet would give me a headache on a fast club ride but it wasn't a problem on other rides, I think I need the ventilation on a more energetic ride. Maybe you are needing more ventilation Gaz.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

potsy said:


> Dehydration from the very large effort you are putting in would be my thought Gaz.
> Do you have plenty to drink afterwards?




Hummmmmm , I've still got it this morning , & it seems just as bad as yesterday , would that be indicative of dehydration ? I drank a total of 3-4 l of fluid yesterday afternoon / evening


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## vickster (19 Sep 2011)

The chin strap needs to be fairly tight as I was told recently, should be able to get 2 fingers in, no more...otherwise you may as well not bother as it may just come off and you could end up with an even bigger headache. 

I'd blame dehydration/nutrition - most headaches are due to the former. It's also much cooler now, I find cold air gives me a headache due to a history of sinus issues, have you had a cold recently?

Otherwise, why are you wearing the helmet now, when you never have done before?


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

vickster said:


> The chin strap needs to be fairly tight as I was told recently, should be able to get 2 fingers in, no more...otherwise you may as well not bother as it may just come off and you could end up with an even bigger headache.
> 
> I'd blame dehydration/nutrition - most headaches are due to the former. It's also much cooler now, I find cold air gives me a headache due to a history of sinus issues, have you had a cold recently?
> 
> Otherwise, why are you wearing the helmet now, when you never have done before?



No not had a cold, I worse the helmet yesterday due to some almost 50 mph descents ( seemed the sensible thing to do ) also I had a spill on the commute in rain a few weeks ago and started to wear it after that, but stopped last week ( and so did the headaches )


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## Red Light (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Hummmmmm , I've still got it this morning , & it seems just as bad as yesterday , would that be indicative of dehydration ? I drank a total of 3-4 l of fluid yesterday afternoon / evening



This link tells how much water you should drink relative to your weight and amount of exercise


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## Red Light (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I worse the helmet yesterday due to some almost 50 mph descents ( seemed the sensible thing to do )



It might seem the sensible thing to do but a little more analysis says its not. First if you hit something at that speed its only about 16 times the design limit of the helmet. Its hardly sensible to use protective equipment to protect that far outside its design envelope. It like using a bullet proof vest to protect against a howitzer round.

Second an EN1078 helmet is designed to absorb 50-70J of impact energy for a medium sized helmet (35-46J for a small helmet, 64-90J for a large helmet). At 50 mph a 300g helmet itself has a kinetic energy of 75J which is added to the impact energy of your head. So a medium or small size helmet will not even protect you from itself at those speeds. 

Third, would you have gone at 50mph without a helmet or did you go faster in the belief you were protected when in fact you probably weren't?


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> It might seem the sensible thing to do but a little more analysis says its not. First if you hit something at that speed its only about 16 times the design limit of the helmet. Its hardly sensible to use protective equipment to protect that far outside its design envelope. It like using a bullet proof vest to protect against a howitzer round.
> 
> Second an EN1078 helmet is designed to absorb 50-70J of impact energy for a medium sized helmet (35-46J for a small helmet, 64-90J for a large helmet). At 50 mph a 300g helmet itself has a kinetic energy of 75J which is added to the impact energy of your head. So a medium or small size helmet will not even protect you from itself at those speeds.
> 
> Third, would you have gone at 50mph without a helmet or did you go faster in the belief you were protected when in fact you probably weren't?




I was fully intent on hitting as high a speed as I could, regardless of the helmet


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## Andrew_P (19 Sep 2011)

The most important question is why after all your miles have you decided to wear a helmet?


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

LOCO said:


> The most important question is why after all your miles have you decided to wear a helmet?



After 2 serious accidents , I figured , with 2 kids, I needed To be less reckless ?


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549350"]
Gaz

Said with the utmost respect and purely out of concern....

You really should back off the 'hardcore' and long-distance rides unless your diet is sorted out. You've lost the weight now, which is fantastic, but if you don't slow down you're inviting serious health problems. You need to be properly nourished to continue at this level - gels during the ride just aren't enough. You've got to look after your body. Unless you're doing this right then it's as reckless as anything else.
[/quote]

I think you have hit the nail on the head Mr Paul.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549350"]Gaz

Said with the utmost respect and purely out of concern....

You really should back off the 'hardcore' and long-distance rides unless your diet is sorted out. You've lost the weight now, which is fantastic, but if you don't slow down you're inviting serious health problems. You need to be properly nourished to continue at this level - gels during the ride just aren't enough. You've got to look after your body. Unless you're doing this right then it's as reckless as anything else.[/quote]


Thanks for your concern

However

On the commute 7 miles is the short way, with a helmet I get a headache, without one I don't, so I really really do think you might be looking up the wrong tree tbh


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Thanks for your concern
> 
> However
> 
> On the commute 7 miles is the short way, with a helmet I get a headache, without one I don't, so I really really do think you might be looking up the wrong tree tbh



So basic trouble shooting. 

Remove or change one element of the equation.

We know that without a helmet you do not get headaches
We know with your helmet you get headaches
What happens if you try a different make/model of helmet?


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> So basic trouble shooting.
> 
> Remove or change one element of the equation.
> 
> ...




I have another - I'll give it a go


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I have another - I'll give it a go



It makes sense as that is (as far as we know) the only thing that has changed in your riding.


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## steve52 (19 Sep 2011)

if a helmet hurts u have the wrong size or adjustment simples i hardley notice mine


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## Andrew_P (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> After 2 serious accidents , I figured , with 2 kids, I needed To be less reckless ?


How is your head after those two accidents?

Someone bought me a helmet, see my thread in helemt debate, wore it for three commutes and didn't this morning. 

An understatement would be that it was really comforatable this morning compared to last week. My bet would be bad fit and or wind noise.


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## Andrew_P (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I have another - I'll give it a go



You will end up with as many helmets as bikes!


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## twobiker (19 Sep 2011)

The tightness of the helmet across my forehead used to give me a headache , but a small adjustment and now its fine.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

LOCO said:


> You will end up with as many helmets as bikes!




Hehe lol - time to ditch em all then ( helmets not bikes )


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Hehe lol - time to ditch em all then ( helmets not bikes )



No you want one helmet per bike that matches said bike and also riding kit for said bike


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## Banjo (19 Sep 2011)

Can you borrow a few different helmets and see if you still get the headache?


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## tyred (19 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> This link tells how much water you should drink relative to your weight and amount of exercise


Very interesting. If it's to be believed, I only drink half as much as I should do.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

tyred said:


> Very interesting. If it's to be believed, I only drink half as much as I should do.



So I should drink 10 water bottles worth during an average ride. So that for a game of soldiers!


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## twobiker (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> So I should drink 10 water bottles worth during an average ride. So that for a game of soldiers!


I would have to fit pedals to a water butt


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

twobiker said:


> I would have to fit pedals to a water butt



Yep. I'm not sure who comes up with these figures but I am certain they are not cyclists!


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## twobiker (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Yep. I'm not sure who comes up with these figures but I am certain they are not cyclists!


I could only get it to go to 4hrs exercise, but I bike for 9/10 hrs sometimes, as I am so slow.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

twobiker said:


> I could only get it to go to 4hrs exercise, but I bike for 9/10 hrs sometimes, as I am so slow.



I plugged in 4 hours as a baseline as well. Think 7 hours is the longest I have been in the saddle for but it may have been longer. The most water/fluid I ever carry is a 3lrt camelbak bladder and 2/750mm bottles. I have never come home with them empty apart from times when I have given drinks to others and once when I used the contents of my camelbak bladder to put a fire out!


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## twobiker (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I plugged in 4 hours as a baseline as well. Think 7 hours is the longest I have been in the saddle for but it may have been longer. The most water/fluid I ever carry is a 3lrt camelbak bladder and 2/750mm bottles. I have never come home with them empty apart from times when I have given drinks to others and once when I used the contents of my camelbak bladder to put a fire out!


If I am going a long way I try and buy some on the way but I have three holders on my tourer and carry one 750ml and two 500mls as a starter,as one ride has a thirty mile section with no shops, when one is empty I put some of those finger of fudge in it, stops them melting in my pocket.


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## fossyant (19 Sep 2011)

Gaz, I'm not entirely convinced it's helmet fit only. I sometimes get a 'pressure' headache, but that's when the helmet is too tight.

Anyway - have you taken any paracetemol to get rid of the headache ? - It's good stuff.  

For that 55 miler, at a good speed (I checked your garmin stats  ), you should also be eating real food. 3 gels and two bottles - what was in the bottles ? Argh - sugar !

The gels and energy drinks are relatively quick release carbohydrate - i.e. you'll use them up quickly, but won't be bad like pure sugar and cause a massive insulin hit - it's slow enough not to cause a big rise in insulin production. I'd never recommend anything like sweets/choc/coke etc on a ride as this will kick in insulin to level out this sudden sugar rush, and you'll be a in a worse place after.

As a youngster, I only did this once/twice within my first year or two. Feeling bad, real bad, lights flashing in my eyes, grabbed a couple of cans of coke from a butty van at the top of Long Hill. Felt great for 5 miles, then a massive blood sugar crash. Far worse. Crawled home. Repeated that, on one of my first 25 mile TT's - some mates gave me some Kendal Mint Cake part way through, absolute mistake (if you've never had it, it's minty sugar - certainly not a cake).

Fortunately I soon sorted my ride diet, and most importantly the race diet.

Most important to any ride of 3 hours and above is pre ride food - ideal is oats/musili or some decent cereal, maybe some toast, some fruit and wait for it, plenty of fluids before hand. In the morning you are de-hydrated, so it's important both on long rides and on the commute to drink.

I even drink a bottle of water over my 11 mile commute in the morning

I can only compare what food I eat over a 100 mile sportive.

3 litres of energy drink, 4 gels, 4 bananas, a malt loaf broken into 5 servings, 4 oat bars. Only the banana's were from the feed with energy drink top up. Gels, malt loaf and oat bars were in my jersey pocket.

Pre ride was big bowl of porridge, 2-3 bananas (on top of the feed station ones), tea, and then 2 bottles of drink - one driving to the event and one whilst getting changed. All this meant I was able to ride at a very good pace, no sign of any 'bonk', and was fine at the end.

Regular headaches - something is a miss, certainly have a chat with your GP. I think the Helmet thing is a co-incidence.

You are at a point where you don't have that much body fat to keep going, you've got there, but now you'll find you need to eat a significant amount of food. I reccon, at high intensity cycling, you'll burn 800-1000 cals an hour. So as a minimum, you need to find 1000 extra cals every day if doing a good work out when commuting.


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## Norm (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> So I should drink 10 water bottles worth during an average ride. So that for a game of soldiers!


To cover this one and the 'who comes up with it' comment, probably someone who can read as it's giving you the recommended daily intake, not what you should be drinking during the ride.

And yes, if you were to regularly exercise for 7 hours a day (remember, that's the time working hard, not just cruising) then you should be looking at more than a few litres as a daily intake.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

Norm said:


> To cover this one and the 'who comes up with it' comment, probably someone who can read as it's giving you the recommended daily intake, not what you should be drinking during the ride.
> 
> And yes, if you were to regularly exercise for 7 hours a day (remember, that's the time working hard, not just cruising) then you should be looking at more than a few litres as a daily intake.



Norm we really need to get a tongue in check flag. As it is I drink the recommended amount of water and have been told by several GP's I drink too much water.


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## twobiker (19 Sep 2011)

I did not think that when doing my 100mls I was just cruising, but the calculator does not cover a wide enough range and is just a guide, we are all different.


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## Norm (19 Sep 2011)

Maybe we do as I'm not sure tongue in cheek is appropriate in a thread in the health section. 

Especially on a thread where someone with the dietary issues which Gaz has previously reported is looking for advice on prolonged headaches.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

Norm said:


> Maybe we do as I'm not sure tongue in cheek is appropriate in a thread in the health section.
> 
> Especially on a thread where someone with the dietary issues which Gaz has previously reported is looking for advice on prolonged headaches.



As I said the advice seems to be conflicting. Many GP's saying I drink too much water and a website designed by a water charity telling me I drink the right amount. That is not a huge amount of help either.


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## Rob3rt (19 Sep 2011)

BTW, How is your diet coming along now Gaz?


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## potsy (19 Sep 2011)

I think Fossy has made some good points there Gaz, I have a feeling you are not eating/drinking anywhere near enough for a ride like that.
It's no secret that you struggle to hit your daily calorie intake on a normal day, so when you throw a 60 mile hihg speed ride in too with only an extra couple of gels and energy drink, it's no wonder you feel rough/headachey.

Hope you get it sorted soon.


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> This link tells how much water you should drink relative to your weight and amount of exercise



The figures that calculator produces are absolutely stupid! According to that, I should have drunk something like 13.5 litres of water on yesterday's forum ride and afterwards! I actually drank about 4 litres and most people would consider that quite a lot.

I'd be in grave danger of suffering from water intoxication if I drank that much in a day.


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## fossyant (19 Sep 2011)

On high intensity rides, think of your body as a machine. i.e. it won't just run on pertol or diesel, in needs oil/grease/maintenance to keep it going - so you need to mix up the fuel sources.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

ColinJ said:


> The figures that calculator produces are absolutely stupid! According to that, I should have drunk something like 13.5 litres of water on yesterday's forum ride and afterwards! I actually drank about 4 litres and most people would consider that quite a lot.
> 
> I'd be in grave danger of suffering from water intoxication if I drank that much in a day.


So glad I'm not the only one to think that!


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> On high intensity rides, think of your body as a machine. i.e. it won't just run on pertol or diesel, in needs oil/grease/maintenance to keep it going - so you need to mix up the fuel sources.




A great way of looking at it tbf mate


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## vickster (19 Sep 2011)

Banjo said:


> Can you borrow a few different helmets and see if you still get the headache?



Go to a bikeshop and buy the helmet that actually fits properly? Don't just buy online on spec I'd say (not read the whole thread, so may have been suggested)


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Sep 2011)

do you only use your helmet on hard or long rides?


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## gavintc (19 Sep 2011)

Another 6 page helmet whine. If you don't like it, don't f**king wear it. Using some lame excuse that it gives you headaches is simply a 'get out' whine. I wear one, lots do not.


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

gavintc said:


> Another 6 page helmet whine. If you don't like it, don't f**king wear it. Using some lame excuse that it gives you headaches is simply a 'get out' whine. I wear one, lots do not.


Wow what a great help!


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## Red Light (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> After 2 serious accidents , I figured , with 2 kids, I needed To be less reckless ?






gb155 said:


> I was fully intent on hitting as high a speed as I could, regardless of the helmet



Hmmmm


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## Alun (19 Sep 2011)

A delicate matter, but urine should be "clear and copious" otherwise it's an indicator of dehydration, apparently!


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## Angelfishsolo (19 Sep 2011)

Alun said:


> A delicate matter, but urine should be "clear and copious" otherwise it's an indicator of dehydration, apparently!


Yes. That is one of the best tests available.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

It does seem it was dehydration TBF, that said, my helmet was VERY poorly fitted, lesson learnt

Now, as for what was in the bottles Foz, it was water, nothing added.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> Hmmmm



Taken TOTALLY out of context there.


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## gb155 (19 Sep 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Wow what a great help!



Ignore the trolls and come and help polish my trophy's   LOL


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## Red Light (19 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Taken TOTALLY out of context there.



Is it? You were asked why you had decided to wear a helmet after all these years and said it was because you had decided to be less reckless. Quite how wearing a helmet makes you less reckless is not clear.

Independently I asked if you would have gone that fast without a helmet and you said you would have with or without the helmet.

So it seems that the helmet is not making you less reckless at all and there is definitely a clear contradiction between your two statements.


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## Norm (19 Sep 2011)

No more helmet comments in this thread, please. The issue has been identified.


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## gb155 (20 Sep 2011)

So, what would you recommend as a drink peeps ?


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## fossyant (20 Sep 2011)

SIS Go, High 5 or personally I perfer Isostar Long Energy - been using the stuff for years and my stomach is OK with it.

Some folk like the Nunn tablets for salt replacement, but tthere isn't much in the way of carbs in there - to be used with a carb drink I think.

Some drinks can take getting used to. I've found High 5 OK too.

Decathlon is a good place to go and check out the the huge selection.

I only ever use Gels as a quick boost on a long Sportive, but that's as well as plenty of energy drinks and food.

If you just had the 3 gels and water, I'd say you certainly didn't have enough carbs for that effort.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Sep 2011)

If I am buying off the shelf I will get SIS or High5. Otherwise I will make my own. Squash, water, a few spoonfuls of sugar and a pinch or two of salt. Works very well indeed. I have also mixed in whey protein if I know I will be pushing myself hard.


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## gb155 (20 Sep 2011)

fossyant said:


> SIS Go, High 5 or personally I perfer Isostar Long Energy - been using the stuff for years and my stomach is OK with it.
> 
> Some folk like the Nunn tablets for salt replacement, but tthere isn't much in the way of carbs in there - to be used with a carb drink I think.
> 
> ...




Thanks mate 

I dont intend to shy away from these events but I do need to get much smarter until my eating issues are sorted, just think how quick I'd be if I was eating right


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## Red Light (20 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549399"]
Gaz

You're missing the point. If you continue riding at this level while living off crisps and Haribo, you'll be in hospital very soon. You just don't have the reserves there any more. 

Being smart isn't about what gels and drinks will get you through a ride. Being smart is to ride to your current physical and health limitations. And that means backing off. 

You shouldn't continue with these events until you're making progress with your eating issues.
[/quote]

I tend to agree. Supplements in your drinks and bars are not cheap and IMO should not be used for normal riding, just for those occasional events or races where you need a performance boost. Normal riding should be able to be sustained by drinking (flavoured) water and eating suitable normal foods - malt loaf is good. Save the gels and sports drinks for competition.


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## ttcycle (20 Sep 2011)

Gaz, I know these are things that you don't want to hear but you have to start taking it on board. I've been refraining from posting so far but actually I have to ask you the question of how far are you going to push yourself as it's verging on the case of being self destructive. You have to be honest with yourself and sometimes that is the most painful and hard thing to do.

I have a friend who suffers from SED - his safe foods are bread, butter and pasta. He is a high profile musician and is very successful but he does not have the complications you do with the weight loss and the now exteremely high levels of physical exercise. He's been seeing a psychiatrist for a number of years- he understand the causes but has struggled to broaden out what he eats. This is a long term thing to work on Gaz as it won't just go away like that. I know you've referred to food on your blog as the mortal enemy and social eating is difficult but these to me indicate that you're still in the grips of a very complex eating disorder and those things that are associated with it. Are you still getting help from a specialist?

Even commuting 7 miles each way for work is a lot of cycling when you compare it to the recommendations of 3 hours of exercise a week for an hour each. A lot of the population are much more sedentary. 7 miles of cycling may not be seen as a lot on CC but you have to take into account your lack of calories and full range of eating when compared to others on the forum. 

You don't have enough nutrition, vitamins, proteins and carbs on a daily level and by pushing yourself and cycling a lot at high speeds, intensities and speeds you're building up to health problems that are really going to become irreparable. 

This is serious, if you continue as you are without proper nutrition and food you're putting your body under serious strain and this can cause heart attacks, kidney issues and liver problems amongst other problems. Food is what gets the internal organs working and you're putting your heart and organs under a lot of strain without repairing them at the end with decent food. High intensity exercising on limited and not enough food on a simple level is potentially messing up your insulin production or the ability for your body to recognise insulin or the sensitivity to it. Keep pushing at it and the problems that come up will not disappear as the damage that you do may become irreparable. 

Competing and sport in general is about becoming aware of and listening to the needs of your body. On a psychological level if you become at this early stage in your cycling used to riding and your body feeling the way it is it with limited food it will be very lard to learn how it would feel when you have properly fed yourself with a wide range of foods. If you want to be fast and to do well in the future don't set yourself up for this as it will be very hard to unlearn it. Gels are for quick bursts of energy, they're not a proper way to fuel yourself on a ride of any distance. I would only use gels if I needed a boost but to be frank with your lack of food sometimes a lot of riding for you may be on the edge of bonking as you're using up calories you don't have in you and there is now no fat on your body to buffer your riding. Gels are designed to be a quick energy supply but is not the type of carb that will give you sustained release of energy for riding.

It's hard to diagnose the simple issue of headaches on rides. None of us can answer without taking into account your nutritional issues. Yes it could be about helmet fit but the SED complicates the answer significantly and to not mention it in responses to your question would be irresponsible.

Gaz, you're not superhuman, you have achieved some amazing weight loss but this is about something else now and as you say, it's about getting your life back.


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## gb155 (20 Sep 2011)

ttcycle said:


> Gaz, I know these are things that you don't want to hear but you have to start taking it on board. I've been refraining from posting so far but actually I have to ask you the question of how far are you going to push yourself as it's verging on the case of being self destructive. You have to be honest with yourself and sometimes that is the most painful and hard thing to do.
> 
> I have a friend who suffers from SED - his safe foods are bread, butter and pasta. He is a high profile musician and is very successful but he does not have the complications you do with the weight loss and the now exteremely high levels of physical exercise. He's been seeing a psychiatrist for a number of years- he understand the causes but has struggled to broaden out what he eats. This is a long term thing to work on Gaz as it won't just go away like that. I know you've referred to food on your blog as the mortal enemy and social eating is difficult but these to me indicate that you're still in the grips of a very complex eating disorder and those things that are associated with it. Are you still getting help from a specialist?
> 
> ...




Fully respect this - I'm learning all the time, with bars I'm now on 50 odd grams of protein a day , sure it should come from food and one day it will but 3 months ago I was on zero grams a day ! 

I'll get there , with help, think of me right now as a 3 years old baby, I started on protein drinks 3 years ago to replace food , now the weight is lost, I need to learn , like a baby does, how to move forwards 

Ps , whos not superman


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## ttcycle (20 Sep 2011)

moving forwards Gaz is about learning to care about yourself and not to continue to punish yourself through extreme physical deprivation.

It takes time to resolve the food issues and can only be done with professional help and people who understand the condition and there are elements of you that don't fit a typical SED profile so there are challenges.

What I do say Gaz and I've noticed is that you can be very one sided on the views you will accept until people keep pushing them at you- these views, often not what you want to hear are important and as hard and as challenging as they are you need to maybe try and take them on board.

Scale back the cycling until you've got a bit more of a handle on the food. Lets put it this way, you will have the rest of your life to cycle and train. If the food issues aren't addressed and you continue full on cycling you may do yourself damage that means you can't cycle or worse.

Maybe this is a bit blunt, but weightloss advice to people is a whole different kettle of fish mate as you need to advise people having come from a perspective of understanding your own eating and food habits as by nature of cycling full tilt with very little food you will lose weight so it's not necessarily good advice to advise that if people are over eating etc or having other issues. Get your house in order- you have great things ahead of you but don't go chasing them before you're ready as you're heading for a massive burnout.

We care about you here but you have to start helping yourself now.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549403"]
Gaz

Babies don't do anything. You're riding a couple of hundred miles a week, and not eating anywhere near enough, or what you should be for your level of activity.

Seriously, bars and gels aren't enough. You said on this thread that you didn't want to be reckless. Riding at levels that your body can't take is far more reckless than whether or not you're wearing a helmet. You will get yourself into serious trouble. Believe me, I worked on an eating disorder unit for several years. Your behaviour might be making you feel good, but it's not doing you good. It's very dangerous.

Yes, you need to learn. And you need to match your riding to your progress. I don't know how strongly it can be said, but this is serious.

You're not superman.
[/quote]

Paul I think/hope that Gaz understands that. His reference to a baby was in learning to eat. That aside I agree with you.

Gaz - take it easy mate. I do not want to read you obituary any time soon. Yes I am serious about that.


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> I'll get there , with help, think of me right now as a 3 years old baby, I started on protein drinks 3 years ago to replace food , now the weight is lost, I need to learn , like a baby does, how to move forwards


I think you somehow need to flip your mindset from _*Food = Enemy*_ to _*Food = Friend*_! We run away from our enemies and move towards our friends. As long as you think of food being an enemy or a problem, _it will be._ 

Start thinking of food the way you would a potential partner that you have just met. You feel hesitant at first, but as time goes by, your confidence grows and eventually, hopefully ... _You Got The Love! _

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd0zY_DYxjE[/media]


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## gb155 (20 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1549403"]

Gaz

Babies don't do anything. You're riding a couple of hundred miles a week, and not eating anywhere near enough, or what you should be for your level of activity.

Seriously, bars and gels aren't enough. You said on this thread that you didn't want to be reckless. Riding at levels that your body can't take is far more reckless than whether or not you're wearing a helmet. You will get yourself into serious trouble. Believe me, I worked on an eating disorder unit for several years. Your behaviour might be making you feel good, but it's not doing you good. It's very dangerous.

Yes, you need to learn. And you need to match your riding to your progress. I don't know how strongly it can be said, but this is serious.

You're not superman.[/quote]


It was an analogy to explain where I'm at as opposed to how real life is

Sadly the NHS don't see it as such a serious issue as yourself , while they have said I need help ( and I do ) I'll be waiting until the new year

My diet is now 2500 cals a day of cashew nuts and protein bars


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## ttcycle (20 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> It was an analogy to explain where I'm at as opposed to how real life is
> 
> Sadly the NHS don't see it as such a serious issue as yourself , while they have said I need help ( and I do ) I'll be waiting until the new year
> 
> My diet is now 2500 cals a day of cashew nuts and protein bars



At a push, do you have any training psychotherapy or psychology units near you? Would you be comfortable with seeing someone who is training for now until your referral comes through as a stop gap?

ColinJ is so right- this is the way to see it, when the cycling takes off, food becomes something that is a positive thing that enables you to cycle at higher levels.


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## ttcycle (20 Sep 2011)

Just to point out re the cashews- you're getting enough calories, but there's not enough variants in that to give you nutrition and vitamins that you need.

If you were into the idea, maybe buy a book on sports nutrition (Anita Bean wrote a good one) as it will help you understand how food works in a sport context.

Maybe you can eat for fuel reasons to begin with and eventually eat food for enjoyment?


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## gb155 (21 Sep 2011)

My superman comment isn't / wasn't aimed at impressing anyone , I fully appreciate im in yet another fight and it's another tricky one but as some have said, food is the fuel this ( super) man needs to ensure he can continue to enjoy his cycling as much as he does

I just need professional help to get there


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