# Recumbent questions



## nigelb (14 Jun 2010)

Hi

Made a bad mistake yesterday.

There was a show on in Cambridge over last weekend, and we went along for a look. They had an area of grass roped off for people to try different bikes out on!

Seeing the recumbents, I thought "now's my chance" and I tried a couple. One was a "short wheel base", the other seemed to be roughly a half-way house between conventional and recumbent.

Have to say I loved them!

Guess I'll have to use my new cycle to work bike for the year, get it paid off, before I start shopping....

To be honest, the whole riding position seems to be a natural progression - I started off on drop handlebars, have moved to hibred curved back ones (and a big soft comfy saddle!), rotating back further sounds perfect.

One thing the guy did say was that its normal to have lots of gears on recumbents, as high cadence is important - didn't quite make sense to me why that's more important on a recumbent?

Nige


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## mark barker (14 Jun 2010)

I wondered about the gear issue too, until I rode mine for a while. Because of the seat position its much more important to be in the right gear at the right time, no lifting out of the saddle to compensate for wrong gear choice, and you'll really notice that on hills!


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## nigelb (14 Jun 2010)

Ah, gotya, hadn't occurred to me (as I never get out of the saddle anyway!).

Just out of curiosity, how do chain sets etc and chains stack up price wise?

Loads more gears, much longer chain, can see this being a bit of a cost hike over a conventional bike?

Nige


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## bottlemsher (14 Jun 2010)

hi nige

The components on a recumbent are the same as a normal bike the only diifference
is length of the chain.
Give D-Tek a call on 01353 678177 which is based in Little Thetford and not far away from you .I think it's still around £25 for a morning of trying out all different styles of
recumbents under the tuition of Kevin.


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## Fiona N (14 Jun 2010)

People often see the long chain on recumbents and assume it's going to be a cost issue but its not - wear on the chain is mainly a function of friction over the sprockets and chain ring teeth which gradually thins the rollers causing 'chain stretch'. So if the recumbent chain is four times longer than normal, each link wears at one quarter the rate of a normal chain link for a given mileage. So you just buy a chain at longer intervals. In fact, with some recumbents it's even better than this as dirt from the road which is sprayed off the wheels, especially in wet weather, is a significant factor in reducing chain lifetime and some recumbents have chain tubes which cover the chain thus protecting it from the dirt. The bottom bracket position also reduces dirt from the font wheel hitting the chain rings in some designs, especially trikes. Others, like Windcheetahs, have the rear wheel offset away from the chain run, so again reducing dirt from the rear wheel on the chain. 

It all helps and I've got over 50,000miles from my Windcheetah chain - so I reckon I can afford to buy gold plated chains every 10 years or so


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## nigelb (14 Jun 2010)

Hi Fiona

How do the gear sets stack up?

Do people really have 30-40 gears on recumbents?

Nige


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## Riding in Circles (14 Jun 2010)

nigelb said:


> Hi Fiona
> 
> How do the gear sets stack up?
> 
> ...



Not often, most come with 20 or 27 gears like any road bike.


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## DrMekon (14 Jun 2010)

FWIW, the 'bent they had at the tryout session in Cambridge was a Dawes Lowrider, which is a rebadged Batavus Relaxx. I enjoyed it too. I've recently been to see Kevin at DTEK, and it's a brilliant day out. I loved pretty much everything from a Bikee (would love to try a HPV Spirit) through to the Bacchetta Strada.


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## ufkacbln (14 Jun 2010)

Or you can get a Rohloff!

Rohloffs and recumbents are made for each other!


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## GrasB (14 Jun 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> Or you can get a Rohloff!
> 
> Rohloffs and recumbents are made for each other!


Not to mention a Rohloff & an 11-32 9sp cassette + 30/42/53 crankset not only give you the same number of discrete gears but they're offer the same gearing range. The Rohloff is just more even with its gear distribution.


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## ufkacbln (14 Jun 2010)

Actually this setup has a Triple at the front (although with the granny disabled) so there is a 28 gear range






The most I have ever heard of was a Greenspeed with an intermediate gearchanger giving a total of 63 gears



> Drivetrain
> Our SRAM/Sachs 3x7 drivetrain is shifted by bar-con bar-end shifters. The components all integrate well and our test trike shifted flawlessly. The 63-speeds come from a 7-speed cassette x 3 speed triple crank x a 3 speed internal hub (SRAM 3x7). The 3x7 has a 27% reduction in low gear, a 1:1 in 2nd gear and a 36% increase in 3rd gear. This makes it ideal for any recumbent with a 20-inch drivewheel. The only downside is the bolt-on rear axle. The super wide gear range will have you climbing the largest hills with ease. The fact that you are on a trike will low-speed balance concerns a non issue. So, do you need 63-gears. At this price, why not.


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## GrasB (14 Jun 2010)

Yeah with a 26x1.5" tyre I kinda like the idea of a 39/54 crankset mated to a Rohloff with a 16t sprocket, 17-123" or 18-131" with a 15t. Or even a 32/39/54 (though I have no idea where to source something like that from) & a 13t sprocket for 17-151", this however would be great setup for a 24x1.5" drive setup.


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> Yeah with a 26x1.5" tyre I kinda like the idea of a 39/54 crankset mated to a Rohloff with a 16t sprocket, 17-123" or 18-131" with a 15t. Or even a 32/39/54 (though I have no idea where to source something like that from) & a 13t sprocket for 17-151", this however would be great setup for a 24x1.5" drive setup.



The 32 up front would be a problem for the Rohloff.


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## GrasB (15 Jun 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> The 32 up front would be a problem for the Rohloff.



Really? 


[url]http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/sprocket/index.html]The[/url] higher the chainwheel/sprocket revolution ratio said:


> .


32/13 = 2.46[/u]


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## summerdays (15 Jun 2010)

Cunobelin said:


>



What is that green/blue tennis ball thing?


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> Really?
> 
> 32/13 = 2.46



I was thinking with the standard 16 tooth. Using the set up you suggest would not give any advantage over a standard rear sprocket with say a 39/53 double up front, all you would gain would be two very high top gears that would be more or less unusable.


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## GrasB (15 Jun 2010)

I was more thinking about with a 451c or 507c wheel. Also considering how easily I got up to 55mph on a 7% descent I would have thought a 150" gear would have come in useful my self.


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> I was more thinking about with a 451c or 507c wheel. Also considering how easily I got up to 55mph on a 7% descent I would have thought a 150" gear would have come in useful my self.



The trike pictured has a 26" rear wheel, with a 507 your top would be 142" with a 451 it would be 126".


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## mark barker (15 Jun 2010)

nigelb said:


> Hi Fiona
> 
> How do the gear sets stack up?
> 
> ...



My recumbents have 24 gears, and normally thats enough, although I do often wish there was a wider range of ratios, but a lot of the problem is my bad riding style!

There is a recumbent trike on ebay that boasts 81 gears! I've not seen one in the flesh, but would love to give it a go (although I think many of the ratios will be repeated in various combinations)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mantis-Foldin...d=ViewItem&pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item4a99eadc18


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

mark barker said:


> My recumbents have 24 gears, and normally thats enough, although I do often wish there was a wider range of ratios, but a lot of the problem is my bad riding style!
> 
> There is a recumbent trike on ebay that boasts 81 gears! I've not seen one in the flesh, but would love to give it a go (although I think many of the ratios will be repeated in various combinations)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mantis-Foldin...d=ViewItem&pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item4a99eadc18



20-25 unique gears with that set up some too low to use anyway, to be fair a good 18-20 gear set up with good ratio spacing is great, even with a Rohloff and a double chainset you get a lot of crossover but you do get a nice low and high range with that set up. With our 27 speed set ups we find that people at some point stop using the granny ring up front.


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## Auntie Helen (15 Jun 2010)

Yeah, I've pretty much entirely stopped using my granny ring on my 27 gear setup (mine goes from 15" to 110"), although saying that I did use it for the first time in ages a couple of days ago at the tail end of a long ride when my legs were tired and I suddenly faced some hills. I also use the granny when towing the trailer full of shopping up a reasonably steep hill near me.

Next Trice, which I plan to buy for myself next spring, will have a Rohloff/Alfine/Nexus and a triple at the front. I've never got on with derailleurs at the back and am hoping the hub gear will suit me rather better.


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## GrasB (15 Jun 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> The trike pictured has a 26" rear wheel, with a 507 your top would be 142" with a 451 it would be 126".


150" comes from a 26x1.375" wheel & that's 45mph @ 100rpm allowing most riders to drive the pedals at around 60mph (IME the average rider can't put out meaningful power above the 135rpm marker). 



Catrike UK said:


> 20-25 unique gears with that set up some too low to use anyway, to be fair a good 18-20 gear set up with good ratio spacing is great, even with a Rohloff and a double chainset you get a lot of crossover but you do get a nice low and high range with that set up. With our 27 speed set ups we find that people at some point stop using the granny ring up front.


Though there's overlap with a normal double there's no duplication of gears, in fact if you use 39/54 (instead of 39/53) where there's overlap the other chainring is almost exactly 1/2 a gear out, this gives you circa 7% gearing steps (with double shifting) right where you're going to be doing almost all of your riding. So you effectively have 28 gears, not even a 3+10 delivers that many discrete gears!


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> 150" comes from a 26x1.375" wheel & that's 45mph @ 100rpm allowing most riders to drive the pedals at around 60mph (IME the average rider can't put out meaningful power above the 135rpm marker).
> 
> 
> Though there's overlap with a normal double there's no duplication of gears, in fact if you use 39/54 (instead of 39/53) where there's overlap the other chainring is almost exactly 1/2 a gear out, this gives you circa 7% gearing steps (with double shifting) right where you're going to be doing almost all of your riding. So you effectively have 28 gears, not even a 3+10 delivers that many discrete gears!



On a 39/54 with a 13 tooth cog on the Rohloff and a 26" rear wheel your gear inches in each gear would be 21,24,27,29,31,33,35,37,40,43,45,48,51,55,58,62,66,71,75,81,85,92,97,104,110,118,135,153

Many of those are close enough to forget about especially if you have to double shift to get to them.


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## betty swollocks (15 Jun 2010)

I have a two-wheeled short wheelbase Challenge 'Hurricane'. I have a double 65/53 on the front and a 9-speed 11-28 on the back. Gets me up pretty much anything, unless I'm exceptionally loaded.
On machines such as mine, slow speed ie hillclimbing stability can be a bit of a challenge (small c this time), but is mastered with practice.
Cadence is relevant to a person I believe - some people are naturally 'pushers' and others 'spinners' and I do not think and it's also been my experience that a fast cadence is no more relevant to 'bent riding than it is to riding an ordinary bike.


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

65/53?


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## Riding in Circles (15 Jun 2010)

65 ring must be like a dinner plate.


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## betty swollocks (15 Jun 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> 65 ring must be like a dinner plate.



it is!! But with a 20 inch wheel ...........


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## betty swollocks (15 Jun 2010)

pic of my Hurricane.
The 65 tooth chainring is hidden behind the chainguard: the tips of the teeth are level with the outer edge it.


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## GrasB (15 Jun 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> On a 39/54 with a 13 tooth cog on the Rohloff and a 26" rear wheel your gear inches in each gear would be 21,24,27,29,31,33,35,37,40,43,45,48,51,55,58,62,66,71,75,81,85,92,97,104,110,118,135,153
> 
> Many of those are close enough to forget about especially if you have to double shift to get to them.


I look at this slightly differently. 

My ideal cadence is between 115 & 135rpm, in that 20rpm band is when I make the most power. Now the 13.5% gear spacing works well when accelerating, as it places my cadence well in my powerband but with a good amount of powerband left.

However when dealing with cruising it would be easy to find I'm swapping between 2 gears as the undulations take me either over the top, fatigue sets in quickly, or off the bottom of my powerband, further speed will drop off easily. With the ability to have gears around 7% apart it's easy to find a gear where I'm moving about all in the powerband, even if I'm climbng up a 6% slope at around 10.5mph.


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## CopperBrompton (16 Jun 2010)

Cadence is a very personal thing, and it seems we each have our preferred range.

My natural cadence is relatively slow, and I like blasting down the hills, so a high top-end gear is important to me. I upgraded to the 9-34 rear cassette, with front rings of 30/42/52, giving me 17-112 inches. :-)


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## ufkacbln (16 Jun 2010)

betty swollocks said:


> pic of my Hurricane.
> The 65 tooth chainring is hidden behind the chainguard: the tips of the teeth are level with the outer edge it.



Mine is similar I have a 63 if I remember rightly....


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## plot72 (6 Jul 2014)

GrasB said:


> Yeah with a 26x1.5" tyre I kinda like the idea of a 39/54 crankset mated to a Rohloff with a 16t sprocket, 17-123" or 18-131" with a 15t. Or even a 32/39/54 (though I have no idea where to source something like that from) & a 13t sprocket for 17-151", this however would be great setup for a 24x1.5" drive setup.


I put 26x1.75 tyre to my Roholf and 20x1.5 front to extend the versatility and include canal paths without the traction problems from narrower options. Fortunately not met one coming the other way yet. Which do you think would be the better Roholf option, a larger 17t sprocket and chain wheel or the converse. I have heard that the Roholf doesn't respond well to high stress offered with a small sprocket.


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## Tigerbiten (7 Jul 2014)

On my ICE trike I've gone with my Rohloff, 53t/38t on the front and 21t on the 20" back wheel.
This gives me 1.8 mph to 20 mph.
If I want to pedal faster, I just engage the overdrive on the HSD and I can pedal all the way to 50 mph.
The first couple of gears are below what Rohloff recommend, but the ultra low speeds on the trike means I'm not over torquing the hub by to much.


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## GrasB (7 Jul 2014)

plot72 said:


> I put 26x1.75 tyre to my Roholf and 20x1.5 front to extend the versatility and include canal paths without the traction problems from narrower options. Fortunately not met one coming the other way yet. Which do you think would be the better Roholf option, a larger 17t sprocket and chain wheel or the converse. I have heard that the Roholf doesn't respond well to high stress offered with a small sprocket.


If you keep to the >2.1:1 rule then the amount of teeth on the sprocket is immaterial to the hub.


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## plot72 (9 Jul 2014)

Thank you GrasB that's really helpful as I'm considering an HSD to stretch the ratio a little.


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