# Do you lock your bike when it's on a train?



## Pale Rider (4 Jan 2016)

I ask after hearing of a cyclist who lost his bike between Edinburgh and London.

On arrival at London, his carbon roadie had been 'replaced' by an on old mountain bike.

The bike was stored in the compartment behind the train's engine.

What happened between Edinburgh and London is open to conjecture, it may have been a pre-planned theft, or the MTB rider may have been a genuine passenger and an opportunist thief.

Or it may have been a dishonest member of railway staff.

Whatever, the result is the same for the owner, he made it to London but his bike didn't.

I keep an eye on my bike when it's in the carriage's luggage area, and have been known to lock it.

But when putting the bike in the space behind the engine, I always feel under pressure to stash it quick and hop back off the train to get back on again to find my seat.

What do you do?


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## subaqua (4 Jan 2016)

not allowed to lock it to the train. says in the T&Cs on SW Trains doesnt stop me if i cant get a seat near to the bike rack. it gets locked in the guards van on EC and WC . never done GWR so not had any experience on that front. booking the space was a faff with GWR


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## Dayvo (4 Jan 2016)

Don't let the train take the strain:


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## snorri (4 Jan 2016)

User46386 said:


> Sit with it or stand next to it. I've heard of quite a few people who have had their bikes stolen when they have been sat in the carriage.


Difficult to get a bike in a sleeper compartment.


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## Flying Dodo (4 Jan 2016)

All the train companies say you mustn't lock the bike to the train. 

If there are 2 of us travelling on intercity trains, then I lock the bikes together as I have my big 2kg chain wrapped over my shoulder and can quickly lock the bikes together without wasting too many seconds. That way I know someone couldn't get away with dragging both bikes off the train - especially from a Virgin Penalino due to the way they're built and the position of the bike storage area, as you couldn't physically carry the bikes around and out the door.

However, when travelling solo, I'm always a bit twitchy especially if I know my booked seat is some way from the luggage area and have sometimes locked the bike and wheels together. 

I always look out the window towards the luggage area to double check in case someone tries to nick the bike. Not a lot else you can do unless you're sat next to the bikes unfortunately.

I've seen someone use the trick of tying a spare toe clip strap around a wheel and the train just to stop an opportunist thief.


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## ianrauk (4 Jan 2016)

I don't care if they say you can't lock your bike up on a train. I always do.


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## Brandane (4 Jan 2016)

If traveling long distance it's usually the west coast mainline on a Virgin Pendolino. The bike goes into the north end of the train (usually) behind the driver's compartment. I then try to find a seat nearby so that I can see the exit door whenever the train stops; that way I can see anyone leaving the train with my bike, and it gives me a few seconds to get after them. I know my officially reserved seat might be a few carriages away; I don't use it.

Local Scotrail trains are easy, there is a dedicated area for bikes and I sit somewhere I can see the bike, usually right beside it. I then promptly fall asleep and hope for the best! (My stop is at the end of the line).


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## NorthernDave (4 Jan 2016)

If I'm on a local train (Northern), then I'll normally just stay with the bike, which is no problem for trips that are generally under an hour.
Most trains have a dedicated space / spaces so its easy enough. 
If I was on a train that required me to leave the bike out of sight then I'd lock the bike, no question, Ts and Cs or not.


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## Soltydog (4 Jan 2016)

I work for Northern (for my sins) & just before Christmas someone locked a bike up on the train, however it wasn't the bike's owner  Not 100% sure of the facts as I wasn't there & heard the story third hand, but the bike had been locked up by another, presumably with the intention to steal at some point. The owner realised & got the attention of the guard who made an announcement asking for it to be unlocked. No one came forward, except for a guy traveling home who happened to have a tool kit & forcibly removed the lock with the required tools, so it ended fairly well. But I err on the side of caution & lock my bike up if it isn't in view whilst traveling on trains


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## Fab Foodie (4 Jan 2016)

If I can't see it, YES. Same on coaches when stowed in the 'Bicycle' compartment.


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## stupug (4 Jan 2016)

I always lock my bikes up on the train. Didn't realise you couldn't though, but that wouldn't stop me


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## mjr (4 Jan 2016)

I lock mine, even if it's in sight. On refurbished local "happy trains" (class 365 I think), it's now the only way to stop them falling over because the vestibule where you have to leave them has been made narrower.

What's the insurance situation if you don't lock them in the luggage compartment of an intercity? Is the train operator liable?


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## TheDoctor (4 Jan 2016)

I lock them, unless I'm sitting beside the bike. I've had a Brompton stolen before, and I don't want to lose another.


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## ColinJ (4 Jan 2016)

I spoke to a cyclist who was standing next to his bike on a local train. He told me that he'd had a bike stolen from a train in the past and he wasn't going to risk it happening again.


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## Saluki (4 Jan 2016)

If I can't see my bike, I lock it. If I can see it, I might just drop a D lock from frame to Wheel. Just in case.

Why can't you lock a bike in a train? Seems daft really.


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## ColinJ (4 Jan 2016)

Saluki said:


> Why can't you lock a bike in a train? Seems daft really.


Maybe it is in case the train management suspect it contains a bomb and want to remove it?

Mind you, I hardly think a would-be terrorist would take any notice of a '_do not lock_' rule since they would clearly be ignoring the '_do not bring improvised explosive devices onto trains_' rule!


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## HLaB (4 Jan 2016)

I've only ever travelled on local trains where you can usually sit right by the bike and if I can't sit I stand by it. These stories make me vary of using the train for any longer distances :-(


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## Cush (5 Jan 2016)

I always try to sit as close to the bike area as possible. Strange thing is that on the Virgin service though you do have to book a seat and that is nearly always 1/2 way down the train. The four rear seats nearest where the bikes are stored are reserved for cyclists. Sitting in these means that you can see anyone going into the bike area. As for the service between Carlisle and Newcastle I sit as near the rear as possible.


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## steveindenmark (5 Jan 2016)

I made myself a stainless steel cable at work. It will go through both the wheels, frame and panniers. 

If I leave my bike anywhere I lock it up and preferrably to something solid. If I left it on a train and couldnt fasten it to the train itself, it could still be taken but it would have to be carried as the wheels are immobilised.

The cable cannot be cut with wire cutters it has to be bolt cropped.


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## Tim Hall (5 Jan 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> I made myself a stainless steel cable at work. It will go through both the wheels, frame and panniers.
> 
> If I leave my bike anywhere I lock it up and preferrably to something solid. If I left it on a train and couldnt fasten it to the train itself, it could still be taken but it would have to be carried as the wheels are immobilised.
> 
> *The cable cannot be cut with wire cutters it has to be bolt cropped*.



That sounds like a gauntlet being thrown. What diameter cable is it?


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## Trickedem (5 Jan 2016)

I travelled down from Edinburgh with my bike. My reserved seat was at the other end of the train and it was a nightmare. At every stop I was checking that my bike was OK.


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2016)

Not a bike but I once had a suitcase taken as passengers crowded to get off a train. I saw a bloke walking away with it, chased him and grabbed my case. He told me he'd thought it belonged to another passenger and he was carrying it for her.


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## xxDarkRiderxx (5 Jan 2016)

I would say if you cannot see it or your unable to keep an eye on it 100% of the time lock it. That feeling of turning up and your bike is missing is unbearable. I've had two bikes stolen, one from the underground car park at work (unlocked silly me) and the second chain cut around the corner from Liverpool Street station, and I still have bad dreams about it.

Recently did a cycle weekend with the club or coffee shops we all lock our bikes up and take no chances.


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## frank9755 (5 Jan 2016)

Globalti said:


> Not a bike but I once had a suitcase taken as passengers crowded to get off a train. I saw a bloke walking away with it, chased him and grabbed my case. He told me he'd thought it belonged to another passenger and he was carrying it for her.



My mother in law once took someone else's suitcase on the tube from Heathrow. She was half asleep, got to our station, jumped up as the doors were about to close, grabbing a case that looked a bit like hers.

London Transport lost property managed to sort it out by the end of the weekend. She was lucky as she had other clothes at our place, but the poor guy whose case she took had a bit of a ruined weekend!


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## frank9755 (5 Jan 2016)

User said:


> On Vigin pendolino trains the @frank9755 technique of putting it behind the seats in first class was very successful.



Necessity was the mother of invention. It was either that or wait two hours on my own, very tired and a bit tipsy, at Preston station.


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## jonny jeez (5 Jan 2016)

ianrauk said:


> I don't care if they say you can't lock your bike up on a train. I always do.


this, or direct them to this page and ask them to commit to covering the cost if the bike is stolen en-route.


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## OskarTennisChampion (5 Jan 2016)

I hang it up and sit as close to it as possible.
Trouble is,the seats all point the other way,so you have to keep looking back constantly.Not ideal.
After this heads up @Pale Rider ,I will be sure to shackle it,or just keep beside it in the luggage area


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## jonny jeez (5 Jan 2016)

User said:


> You know those conditions of carriage you sign up to whenever you buy a ticket? They only accept liability for loss caused by their fault.


Surely theft from an unlocked carriage...is their fault. Failure to provide...or allow security in a space that is open to other passenger's.


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## mjr (5 Jan 2016)

User said:


> You know those conditions of carriage you sign up to whenever you buy a ticket? They only accept liability for loss caused by their fault.


I'd love to know what happens. I only found http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stolen-from-a-train-retro-loveliness but the transport police caught the thief and returned the bike before it got as far as pushing for the loss to be compensated.

Conditions of carriage don't forbid you locking your cycle. Which would you choose: obeying the extra rules and potentially losing the bike, or disobeying and potentially being thrown off the train but still having the bike?

I'd still make sure the lock is quick to undo, though. It doesn't need to be super-secure, because a thief taking too long to bust the lock should attract attention as they delay the train.


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2016)

Cush said:


> I always try to sit as close to the bike area as possible. Strange thing is that on the Virgin service though you do have to book a seat and that is nearly always 1/2 way down the train. The four rear seats nearest where the bikes are stored are reserved for cyclists. Sitting in these means that you can see anyone going into the bike area. As for the service between Carlisle and Newcastle I sit as near the rear as possible.


First Class is always, very inconsiderately in my opinion, put at the other end of the train from the bike storage area.


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2016)

User said:


> Friends don't abandon friends in Preston.


Enemies don't abandon enemies in Preston!!!


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2016)

User said:


> Are you sure? That is exactly what it appeared had happened to some of the people there.


I'd have to really, really hate someone to desert them in Preston. I don't think I'd even leave @McWobble behind in Preston. In Accrington possibly but not Preston.


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## Cush (5 Jan 2016)

martint235 said:


> First Class is always, very inconsiderately in my opinion, put at the other end of the train from the bike storage area.


That's to keep them away from the smell of cyclists, who have ridden many miles and are covered in undiscovered substances thrown up from goodness knows where. So in reality Virgin are being very considerate. Mind I still have secret fear of seeing the person who is supposed to open the door to let the cyclist out running up the platform as the Glasgow train pulls out of Carlisle


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2016)

Cush said:


> That's to keep them away from the smell of cyclists, who have ridden many miles and are covered in undiscovered substances thrown up from goodness knows where. So in reality Virgin are being very considerate. Mind I still have secret fear of seeing the person who is supposed to open the door to let the cyclist out running up the platform as the Glasgow train pulls out of Carlisle


Ah. So that's the thinking. Maybe I ruin it then by insisting on sitting in First Class in my sweaty lycra then.....


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## steveindenmark (5 Jan 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> That sounds like a gauntlet being thrown. What diameter cable is it?



I think it is 5mm. We use it for Super yacht sails and so is designed to withstand friction.

<I know it works as last year we took the motorbike to the other side of Denmark and used the wire to lock our gear to the bike and then lost the key. After 20 minutes of trying to cut through it with wire cutters, I called the breakdown guy and told him to bring some bolt croppers


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## Flying Dodo (5 Jan 2016)

Cush said:


> I always try to sit as close to the bike area as possible. Strange thing is that on the Virgin service though you do have to book a seat and that is nearly always 1/2 way down the train. The four rear seats nearest where the bikes are stored are reserved for cyclists. Sitting in these means that you can see anyone going into the bike area. As for the service between Carlisle and Newcastle I sit as near the rear as possible.



You're right - I'd forgotten about that new facility with Virgin West Coast. They even turfed out some non cyclists from the seats for me last year. The Virgin staff on the train generally seem very attentive to bike users and checking when they're getting off etc. Certainly better than most operators. I can't comment on how the East Coast route now compares, having been taken over by Virgin, as it's been a couple of years since I last took a bike on that route but the staff always used to be rather surly.


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2016)

It's never really occurred to me. When we went to Doncaster last year, I just left my bike with Ross' and Sarah's (?) and buggered off back down the train to First Class. East Coast seemed fine or at least friendly.


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## Tim Hall (5 Jan 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> I think it is 5mm. We use it for Super yacht sails and so is designed to withstand friction.
> 
> <I know it works as last year we took the motorbike to the other side of Denmark and used the wire to lock our gear to the bike and then lost the key. After 20 minutes of trying to cut through it with wire cutters, I called the breakdown guy and told him to bring some bolt croppers


I think it's going to depend on what you call wire cutters. At work I can use wire cutters that easily cut through 8mm wire rope, can do 12mm with a bit of grunt and can nibble 16mm. 5mm would present no problem.


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## bonsaibilly (5 Jan 2016)

Soltydog said:


> I work for Northern (for my sins) & just before Christmas someone locked a bike up on the train, however it wasn't the bike's owner  Not 100% sure of the facts as I wasn't there & heard the story third hand, but the bike had been locked up by another, presumably with the intention to steal at some point. The owner realised & got the attention of the guard who made an announcement asking for it to be unlocked. No one came forward, except for a guy traveling home who happened to have a tool kit & forcibly removed the lock with the required tools, so it ended fairly well. But I err on the side of caution & lock my bike up if it isn't in view whilst traveling on trains



"Happened to have a toolkit" which could be used to forcibly remove bike locks, on a train... Hmmmm! BB


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## subaqua (5 Jan 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> I think it's going to depend on what you call wire cutters. At work I can use wire cutters that easily cut through 8mm wire rope, can do 12mm with a bit of grunt and can nibble 16mm. 5mm would present no problem.


snap . and a cordless dremel with the right wheel in it takes seconds.


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## slowmotion (5 Jan 2016)

bonsaibilly said:


> "Happened to have a toolkit" which could be used to forcibly remove bike locks, on a train... Hmmmm! BB


 I think he might have been wearing a stripey jersey and a Lone Ranger mask.


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## slowmotion (5 Jan 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> I think it's going to depend on what you call wire cutters. At work I can use wire cutters that easily cut through 8mm wire rope, can do 12mm with a bit of grunt and can nibble 16mm. 5mm would present no problem.


 Lightweight.


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## Custom24 (5 Jan 2016)

I don't lock my bike on GWR, certainly not to the train. The guards stand at the door of the bike carriage hurrying you, 90% of the time. There just isn't enough time because of having to wait for the other cyclists, getting off as well as on. If everyone locked their bike, or even just the "nice" bikes, it would delay the train significantly. 

I'm only going one stop, so the risk is less. 

Having read this thread, I may look for a minimal deterrent lock for the rear wheel that's lightweight to at least prevent someone wheeling it away. I don't really want to cycle 20 miles with a heavy D lock.


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## steveindenmark (5 Jan 2016)

subaqua said:


> snap . and a cordless dremel with the right wheel in it takes seconds.



But the chance of that happening on a train is a bit slim, as is someone just passing by with an industrial pair of wire cutters. I appreciate there are thieves who use these things but the majority of bike thefts are opportunists.


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## bonsaibilly (5 Jan 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> But the chance of that happening on a train is a bit slim, as is someone just passing by with an industrial pair of wire cutters. I appreciate there are thieves who use these things but the majority of bike thefts are opportunists.



How can a theft be an opportunist? BB


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## RichardB (5 Jan 2016)

bonsaibilly said:


> How can a theft be an opportunist? BB


Thieving stuff when the perpetrator sees an opportunity, rather than planned in advance.


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## bonsaibilly (5 Jan 2016)

Doh.


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## Tim Hall (5 Jan 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> But the chance of that happening on a train is a bit slim, as is someone just passing by with an industrial pair of wire cutters. I appreciate there are thieves who use these things but the majority of bike thefts are opportunists.


Big FO wire cutters are, indeed, unlikely to be carried on a train. However, I took your post to mean you (a) used this wire routinely (If I leave my bike anywhere I lock it up and preferrably to something solid.) and (b) thought it approaching invincible. It isn't.


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## steveindenmark (6 Jan 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> Big FO wire cutters are, indeed, unlikely to be carried on a train. However, I took your post to mean you (a) used this wire routinely (If I leave my bike anywhere I lock it up and preferrably to something solid.) and (b) thought it approaching invincible. It isn't.



I do use it routinely but with a cable lock and I like to cable lock it to something solid. My wire is to make sure the wheels and panniers dont go missing, but it also goes round a post as well. 

Its a bit belt and braces, especially in Denmark, where decent bikes are often found alongside bus stops in the middle of the countryside.


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## steveindenmark (6 Jan 2016)

RichardB said:


> Thieving stuff when the perpetrator sees an opportunity, rather than planned in advance.



You mean when they see a nice Carbon bike on a train and leave their Halfords mountain bike and steals the nice unlocked Carbon bike.

What an opportunist he was


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## Custom24 (6 Jan 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> You mean when they see a nice Carbon bike on a train and leave their Halfords mountain bike and steals the nice unlocked Carbon bike.
> 
> What an opportunist he was


As opposed to, for example, notices nice carbon bikes regularly on a train, some locked with a wire, gets on at a stop where there is no guard for the bike carriage, with bolt cutters.


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## L Q (7 Jan 2016)

I am clearly a trusting kid of guy.

I have travelled 3 times from York to Inverness now and not once have a locked my bike.

Last time I travelled I even left my panniers loose next to my bike in the storage area, I didn't even check them at all and the train must stop at 15 stations en route.

After reading this I wont do it again knowing some bikes have actually been stolen during a train journey.


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## al78 (7 Jan 2016)

I've never locked my bike on a train, but for local journeys I am always very close to my bike, and for long journeys I take my folding bike. I've never had a problem yet however I don't really like putting the folder somewhere out of my sight but it is necessary occasionally when the train is very crowded.


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