# May I take a short, casual, survey on the Fatzua system?



## Dave7 (27 Apr 2021)

Who has got either a Boardman ebike with Fatzua drive thingy or another similar bike ie with Fatzua?
1. Any problems with the Fatzua system?
2. Are you, overall, very happy with your bike.

Don't wan't to get into the Halfords crap service etc as that is (I think) a different subject.


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## Pale Rider (27 Apr 2021)

The system has lost a little weight since you last looked - it's now called Fazua.

To be serious, there have been quite a lot of reliability niggles with it.

The hub motor technology on the other bikes you are considering is more established and reliable, although I think the cross bar mounted touch control may be too clever for its own good.


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## keithmac (27 Apr 2021)

It looks a bit fragile to me.


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## Pale Rider (27 Apr 2021)

keithmac said:


> It looks a bit fragile to me.



That's because it is, but there are very few light assist crank drives, so Fazua enjoy dominance of their little corner of the market.


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## richtea (27 Apr 2021)

My wife has a Fazua-based Boardman HYB 8.9e. It's been reliable, and enjoyable for her to use (and for me to play on!).
It's the previous model (2019) to the current Fazua system, and so has a few foibles - the main one being a tricky battery release button. That's been improved with the new Fazua release mechanism. They also upgraded the software mid-way through last year which improved drive, so be sure to read older reviews with that in mind.

She has a bar-mounted controller, and has had no problems.

I don't see any fragility in the design - it's solid, well engineered, and has been through a few iterations to get this far. It's also been around for several years (2016 was the earliest I think).

I'd buy one for myself but I have an Orbea with the ebikemotion system - which I'd say is the main competitor. If I was given the chance to buy Fazua v ebikemotion at the same price, I'd buy Fazua. However, Fazia usually costs more, and my ebikemotion Orbea was a bargain well below Fazua prices.


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## Dave7 (28 Apr 2021)

I posted this as an edit yesterday but the edit seems to have disappeared .
I went to see the Boardman yesterday and just didn't like it. Didn't like the BIG FAT down tube......or the weight**
Its still in the mix but I am going to see the Ribble today (if MrsD is well enough).
**I checked on a Cube yesterday. 25 KILOS as it uses the Bosch system.


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## CXRAndy (28 Apr 2021)

Dave7 said:


> I posted this as an edit yesterday but the edit seems to have disappeared .
> I went to see the Boardman yesterday and just didn't like it. Didn't like the BIG FAT down tube......or the weight**
> Its still in the mix but I am going to see the Ribble today (if MrsD is well enough).
> **I checked on a Cube yesterday. 25 KILOS as it uses the Bosch system.



Weight is only of concern when carrying bike- to be avoided 

My ebike will weigh in around 33kg, with panniers extra battery new lights more like 40-42KG


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## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

Dave7 said:


> I posted this as an edit yesterday but the edit seems to have disappeared .
> I went to see the Boardman yesterday and just didn't like it. Didn't like the BIG FAT down tube......or the weight**
> Its still in the mix but I am going to see the Ribble today (if MrsD is well enough).
> **I checked on a Cube yesterday. 25 KILOS as it uses the Bosch system.



The Bosch bike is more powerful and has a battery that will run for about twice as long, so you do get something for the extra timber.

The Ribble will also be relatively heavy and have a large down tube.

Batteries and motors are heavy and bulky - you cannae beat the laws of physics, captain.

In other words, some recalibration of expectations may be required.


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## Drago (28 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider, as always, is wise. My Subway E (size L) weighed in at a needles width over 18kg on my scales, ready to ride with pedals, but without lights, guards, etc.

In 9 months of ownership one quicly gets talking to other E bike riders and looks over and has a feel of one another machines (paging @Fnaar), and that 18kg seemed like a boat anchor to me at first but Ive come to appreciate thats actually very light for a conventionally framed machine and have yet to encounter a lighter one in the wild. Thats why I regard claims of 13kg with great suspicion.

Most ebikes are very weighty, and like regular bicycles there is no universal industry standard for quoting a weight. You really need to get into a few stores and handle a couple of bikes to see how they feel for you rather than rely on the quoted weights, which, like MPG, are often a complete fiction.


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2021)

See what the Ribble is like. There are plenty of horror stories about any 'drive system' - I know enough MTB'ers who've had problems with their eMTB's. 

Read into it what you will. If the Ribble is lighter, then go for it. Most ebikes do weigh alot


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## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

A swift scope about online suggests the Ribble is about a kilo lighter than the Boardman.

Only Dave will be able to say if that turns 'too heavy' into 'acceptable'.


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## theboxers (28 Apr 2021)

I have a Cube Agree Hybrid, size 56, from 2018. I weighed it for a flight before I put it in a transport bag and it weighs in @15.5kg as I have it setup (lights, computer, cages, spares and saddle bag). It works very well for me and the way I use it.

I have had 2 issues with it. Both may have been, probably were, self inflicted.
1: The bolts holding the bottom bracket in place worked loose. This may have been due to a groupset upgrade (mechanical to Electronic) I had done but I can't be sure.
2: A battery retaining/stabilising arm on the lock broke. I may have been too heavy handed in installing or removing the battery. There is a knack to it.

I have 1500 miles on it (a medical problem prevented use) and aside from those 2 issues it has been just normal maintenance.


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## gzoom (28 Apr 2021)

@Dave7 The Boardman is actually a very 'light' eBike, but I do agree eBikes are heavy especially versus road bikes.

The difference in 'feel' between my Fazua Boardman and sub 8kg road bike on a climb is night and day. The eBike is clearly easier to ride up a hill but it simply doesn't feel nice when really pushing it.

As it happens my Boardman is back with Halfords waiting for a new BB gear box from Fauza, last time the wait was so long for new parts they canablzied a showroom bike.

I think you would be happy with either, personally right now I woudlnt say no to swapping the Fazua system for the eMotion one. Infact I might just sell my Boardman when its fixed and buy an Ribble/Orbea/Scott with the eMotion motor.


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## theboxers (28 Apr 2021)

gzoom said:


> @Dave7 The Boardman is actually a very 'light' eBike, but I do agree eBikes are heavy especially versus road bikes.
> 
> The difference in 'feel' between my Fazua Boardman and sub 8kg road bike on a climb is night and day. The eBike is clearly easier to ride up a hill but it simply doesn't feel nice when really pushing it.
> 
> Snip


I am jumping between my Cube Agree C62 hybrid, Fazua powered, ebike (15.5kg), when on my own and my GT Grade AL X (10kg) (ETA not an ebike), when riding with my Brothers. My brothers don't like that I may be cheating when riding with them, as if .

(Edit to clarify types of bike.)

The GT, although not a svelte bike in any imagination, feels a lot more nimble in almost all situations due to the 5kg weight difference. The Cube goes up hills better due to the motor but it can be a bit, err numb, handling wise .

I like both bikes. The cube for the get out of jail ability, that I can use on longer rides. The GT for the satisfaction of knowing it was all me, when going up hills. I have to choose different routes and profiles when using each but that just means I have more roads I can ride .


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## Dave7 (28 Apr 2021)

theboxers said:


> I am jumping between my Cube ebike (15.5kg), when on my own and my GT Grade AL X (10kg), when riding with my Brothers. My brothers don't like that I may be cheating when riding with them, as if .
> 
> The GT, although not a svelte bike in any imagination, feels a lot more nimble in almost all situations due to the 5kg weight difference. The Cube goes up hills better due to the motor but it can be a bit, err numb, handling wise .
> 
> I like both bikes. The cube for the get out of jail ability, that I can use on longer rides. The GT for the satisfaction of knowing it was all me, when going up hills. I have to choose different routes and profiles when using each but that just means I have more roads I can ride .


I spoke to a Cube dealer yesterday. He told me they use Bosch AND ALL weigh around 25 Kg 
10.5 Kg for the GT ebike seems very very light.


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## theboxers (28 Apr 2021)

Dave7 said:


> I spoke to a Cube dealer yesterday. He told me they use Bosch AND ALL weigh around 25 Kg
> 10.5 Kg for the GT ebike seems very very light.


My Cube Agree C62 hybrid is a Road bike, drop handlebar style. The GT Grade is gravel bike, not an E-bike, sorry for the confusion.


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## richtea (28 Apr 2021)

You can get a _very _light variant of the Ribble Endurance SL e - 10.5kg. However, you'll also get a very light wallet!

The Boardmans and the basic Ribbles/Orbeas (which are all roughly in the 15Kg area) seem to be a good balance on the weight / price trade-off if you're after some assistance as opposed to shedloads of assistance.
However (as stated by other posters above) if you need LOTS of power, then you'll need to go for something heavier. Big batteries weigh a lot, and need a pretty solid frame and space to mount them onto.

In terms of looks, the Ribble & Orbea Gain/Vibe are tidier with a smaller diameter down tube than the Fazua. However, that comes at the expense of no removable battery, which in turn may be good - in terms of possible battery theft*, or bad - in terms of having to bring it into the house to charge it if you have a bare garage like mine.

*Ribbles & Orbeas don't even look like eBikes - another possible bonus on the theft front.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Oh I really like the look (and weight) of the new top spec Riddle. 10.5kg is now banging on the door of been considered a proper road bike, the top spec analogue road bikes are below 7kg now, so might we see a sub 10kg eBike soon? I hope so.

At under £7k I would say its actually 'cheap' for a top of the line machine, when an analogue Trek Emonda eTap is the same price and a stop spec one is over 5k figurs.....I recon I'm very close to finding my 40th birthday present to my self, sub 10kg will be the trigger for me 

The eMotion 35 motor am sure is due an update soon......am sure its going to be a matter of when not if we see a sub 10kg eBike, end of this year I recon?


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## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

Is that a 15kg area as the manufacturer claims, or the 15kg area as they actually are after you've personally put them on the scales? As aforementioned, the two figures appear to bear no mathematical relation to one another.


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## Dave7 (29 Apr 2021)

richtea said:


> You can get a _very _light variant of the Ribble Endurance SL e - 10.5kg. However, you'll also get a very light wallet!
> 
> The Boardmans and the basic Ribbles/Orbeas (which are all roughly in the 15Kg area) seem to be a good balance on the weight / price trade-off if you're after some assistance as opposed to shedloads of assistance.
> However (as stated by other posters above) if you need LOTS of power, then you'll need to go for something heavier. Big batteries weigh a lot, and need a pretty solid frame and space to mount them onto.
> ...


As of this moment I can happily do 20-30 miles** on a "standard" bike......but at 74 I have to think of next year etc.
**of course that was before this virus wiped me out. I will be virtually starting again.


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## Dave7 (29 Apr 2021)

I


Drago said:


> Is that a 15kg area as the manufacturer claims, or the 15kg area as they actually are after you've personally put them on the scales? As aforementioned, the two figures appear to bear no mathematical relation to one another.


I have read several so called independent reviews that confirm the Ribble at 13.5 Kg.
In my working life I was used to lifting 20 Kg blocks and when packing for holidays (and test/lift the bags) I am never more than 0.5 Kg out from the scale......so will know if its porkies.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Is that a 15kg area as the manufacturer claims, or the 15kg area as they actually are after you've personally put them on the scales? As aforementioned, the two figures appear to bear no mathematical relation to one another.



My Boardman in large frame weighs in at 15.8kg including pedals, pretty much identical to claimed weight of 15.5kg for medium frame.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

These '_lighter_' eBIkes still are pretty powerful, it turns normal people into hill climb champions!!


View: https://youtu.be/L8BgAbisp_I


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## CXRAndy (29 Apr 2021)

Interesting content, predictable results.

It allows riders either to match the best of their mates or make a ride relaxing whatever the terrain

Road CC just dont have the GCN enthusiasm, presentation.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

@Dave7 I've just ridden to work on my road bike, and given what you have said about what you are after in an bike, I would say get the Ribble. 

I really like my Boardman as a commuting tool (even though its not that reliable), but when it comes to 'feel' and 'enjoyment' my Trek Roadbike is simply so much nicer, even when carrying a whole load of commuting gear. I don't know if its down the weight on the Boardman, or the frame, or the wheelset (probably all those things), its not as nice to ride regardless of the electric assistance. 

I would love to be still on my bike at 74, enjoy what ever you buy!!!


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2021)

gzoom said:


> .am sure its going to be a matter of when not if we see a sub 10kg eBike, end of this year I recon?



No chance.

The only reason the likes of the Ribble and Boardman are around 16kg is they have lighter batteries and motors, which equates directly to a reduction in power and range compared to the 20kg+ ebikes.

Thus all have the same technology, just implemented differently.

Motor and battery technology moves forward at a glacial pace, neither has gone anywhere in the last 15 years or more.

A motor and battery designed today and one of equivalent power and range designed in 2000 would weigh the same.

An electrified 6.5kg carbon dream machine will, of course, weigh less than an electrified 10.5kg ally roadie.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> No chance.
> 
> The only reason the likes of the Ribble and Boardman are around 16kg is they have lighter batteries and motors, which equates directly to a reduction in power and range compared to the 20kg+ ebikes.



Why not, the eMotion 35 powered bikes are not 16kg, they are now just a smidge over 10kg - 10.5kg infact.

You don't need massive changes in smaller electronic controllers, less wiring etc to gain an reduction of 500 grams. For the manufacture it'll be a massive selling point, sub 10kg eBike....much easier to justify spending £10K on one of those than a normal analogue bike. 

The motor/battery in the Ribble/Boardman also provide more than enough assistance/range for most people, I can get nearly 60 miles range of mine. On a light bike, better aero position, I recon more range is more than possible. I can push 20mph on the flat with no assistance, but up any incline into double digits and my speed drops to nearer 10mph. 2kg weight penalty on the flat will make next to no difference at 20mph, but having an extra 100-200watts on tap on the climbs would be a massive help, and lift me average speed.


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2021)

gzoom said:


> Why not, the eMotion 35 powered bikes are not 16kg, they are now just a smidge over 10kg - 10.5kg infact.



The eBikemotion system weighs about 4-5kg, so as you know, a complete 10.5kg bike is achieved by electrifying a superlight carbon dream machine.

Stick an EBikemotion on a more realistic for most us 10-11kg £1,000 ally roadie or flat bar and you will have bikes weighing around 14-15kg of the type the OP is considering.

Or put another way, a system with the same power and range of Ebikemotion produced in 2000 would weigh about the same as it does today.

That Ebikemotion/Fazua riders are happy with their bikes is a separate point.

I agree most are, despite some reliability problems.

I'm always pleased to learn any cyclist is happy with his new bike.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> The eBikemotion system weighs about 4-5kg, so as you know, a complete 10.5kg bike is achieved by electrifying a superlight carbon dream machine.



Which makes the new Ribble even more of a 'bargain' at under £7k, considering top spec road bikes are easily £10k+ these days!! 

All the more reason to buy one .


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2021)

gzoom said:


> Which makes the new Ribble even more of a 'bargain' at under £7k, considering top spec road bikes are easily £10k+ these days!!
> 
> All the more reason to buy one .



Roadie bikes aren't my thing, but it looks like the £3,000 carbon Ribble ebike shares the same frame with the £6,999 one.

In that respect, the bargain looks to be the cheaper bike, although I accept you weren't being entirely serious.

Is the dearer bike worth the extra for Di2 and presumably lots of other goodies?

Genuine question, because I don't know the answer.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/


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## theboxers (29 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Is that a 15kg area as the manufacturer claims, or the 15kg area as they actually are after you've personally put them on the scales? As aforementioned, the two figures appear to bear no mathematical relation to one another.


My 2018 Cube Agree C62 Road ebike weighs in at 15 - 15.5kg depending how it is set-up when I weigh it. That is including, but not limited to, Pedals (vector 3's), lights (cycliq 12ce, 6ce), head unit (edge 1030), varia radar, cages and mounts, saddle bag containing, tools, 2 tubes, patch kit, chain breaker, ottolock, pressure gauge.

A contempory bare Cube Agree Disc road bike is claimed @ 8.2kg. Not including pedals by the looks of it.


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2021)

theboxers said:


> My 2018 Cube Agree C62 Road ebike weighs in at 15 - 15.5kg depending how it is set-up when I weigh it. That is including, but not limited to, Pedals (vector 3's), lights (cycliq 12ce, 6ce), head unit (edge 1030), varia radar, cages and mounts, saddle bag containing, tools, 2 tubes, patch kit, chain breaker, ottolock, pressure gauge.
> 
> A contempory bare Cube Agree Disc road bike is claimed @ 8.2kg. Not including pedals by the looks of it.



Fazua claim the weight of their motor and battery as 4.6kg, although that probably doesn't include the controller, and associated switches, sensors and wiring.

Then there's the extra frame material needed to house everything.

Thus a complete Fazua installation might add close to 6kg to a bike.

Start with a bike weighing 8kg or so, and you should be able to achieve an all-up weight of 15kg - even with a full bidon.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Roadie bikes aren't my thing, but it looks like the £3,000 carbon Ribble ebike shares the same frame with the £6,999 one.
> 
> In that respect, the bargain looks to be the cheaper bike, although I accept you weren't being entirely serious.



The cheapest Ribble shares the same frame as the most expensive, where as the Boardman shares its frame with the £500 version, and you can tell.

For absolutely value the £5k Ribble looks best, decent wheels/Ultegra running kit, the top spec £7k version only really buys you 1kg weight loss which on an eBike isn't much of a penalty.


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## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

Despite all these claims by manufacturers of featherlight weights, and solemn promises from owners that they've dutifully weighed them on the bathroom scales, they're all still heavier than mine when I actually meet an owner in the wild and we get to examine each others wares.


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## gzoom (29 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Despite all these claims by manufacturers of featherlight weights, and solemn promises from owners that they've dutifully weighed them on the bathroom scales, they're all still heavier than mine when I actually meet an owner in the wild and we get to examine each others wares.



How heavy is your eBike, I'll happily meet up to compare


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