# Why do drivers hate cyclists?



## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

The answer quite simply is they don't. Occasionally a motorist makes a mistake through being inattentive no malice intended just a momentary lapse in concentration. Quite human quite understandable we've all done it. Those occasions when a motorist bullies and abuses us when its not our fault that's because they are bullies, they are like that with every road user and its nothing to do with us being cyclists. Its to do with us getting in the way of what they want to do. To those who say we should behave in a way so as not to antagonise these people I say nuts. Some drivers will always hate. Anything we do is only an excuse for them but they don't need one. I am not advocating a disregard of the rules of the road most of them keep us safe I am saying to stand meekly so as not to antagonise doesn't work. In short be as assertive as you can be without putting yourself in danger. Cycling is a risky business but it's not dangerous.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Jul 2011)

rowan 46 said:


> The answer quite simply is they don't. Occasionally a motorist makes a mistake through being inattentive no malice intended just a momentary lapse in concentration. Quite human quite understandable we've all done it. Those occasions when a motorist bullies and abuses us when its not our fault that's because they are bullies, they are like that with every road user and its nothing to do with us being cyclists. Its to do with us getting in the way of what they want to do. To those who say we should behave in a way so as not to antagonise these people I say nuts. Some drivers will always hate. Anything we do is only an excuse for them but they don't need one. I am not advocating a disregard of the rules of the road most of them keep us safe I am saying to stand meekly so as not to antagonise doesn't work. In short be as assertive as you can be without putting yourself in danger. Cycling is a risky business but it's not dangerous.



I quote verbatum "I don't believe that riding legally would make inconsiderate drivers like cyclists more. *they have no reason to hate they just do*."


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## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I quote verbatum "I don't believe that riding legally would make inconsiderate drivers like cyclists more. *they have no reason to hate they just do*."



your point?


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Jul 2011)

rowan 46 said:


> your point



My point is that you state in this post "_*The answer quite simply is they don't.*_" Excuse me for being confused.


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## Adasta (20 Jul 2011)

When people are in a car there seems to be an inability to reason properly. We've all seen people overtake cyclists only to speed to a red light and then be passes themselves. That's not rational. 

I don't think the majority of drivers are making conscious decisions regarding cyclists; therin lies the problem, but I'm at a loss to explain why this happens.


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## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> My point is that you state in this post "_*The answer quite simply is they don't.*_" Excuse me for being confused.



That's right drivers do not hate us. Inconsiderate selfish drivers hate everyone not just us it's nothing personal.


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## Hip Priest (20 Jul 2011)

Drivers don't hate cyclists. If they did then I'd hate myself 'cause I'm both. I think people in general are just becoming more self-centred and impatient. Many people get outraged if someone holds them up for 2 seconds, whether it's someone on a bike, someone driving slowly, or someone being slow putting their things away at the till. Many people don't see themselves as part of society anymore, it's just me, me, me.


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## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Drivers don't hate cyclists. If they did then I'd hate myself 'cause I'm both. I think people in general are just becoming more self-centred and impatient. Many people get outraged if someone holds them up for 2 seconds, whether it's someone on a bike, someone driving slowly, or someone being slow putting their things away at the till. Many people don't see themselves as part of society anymore, it's just me, me, me.



I think that's pretty much it. The increasing hostility to cyclists is just a symptom of a society that's less polite than it used to be. perhaps this thread should be moved to the pub


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## gaz (20 Jul 2011)

Some people genuinely raise hate because they nearly or did get knocked over by a cyclist because they did xyz.
I've meat them outside of cycling abd they express that opinion to me without a prompt.


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## fossyant (20 Jul 2011)

Cycling is perfectly safe I always tell people. It's the idiots in cars you have to watch out for.


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## al78 (20 Jul 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Drivers don't hate cyclists. If they did then I'd hate myself 'cause I'm both. I think people in general are just becoming more self-centred and impatient. Many people get outraged if someone holds them up for 2 seconds, whether it's someone on a bike, someone driving slowly, or someone being slow putting their things away at the till. Many people don't see themselves as part of society anymore, it's just me, me, me.



That is unfortunately an inevitable consequence of modern life and trying to (or being forced to) squeeze more and more things into the day. Time is valuable and so when someone gets held up, it can feel to them like a theft of their limited time.

BTW I don't think the till example you gave was the best, as that is often a situation where people are thoughtless. Is it really so difficult to hand your card over to the cashier BEFORE packing your stuff so you can do the card scanning and packing in parallel? The cyclist, on the other hand, mostly can't help being slower than the traffic flow.


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## HLaB (20 Jul 2011)

Some folk hate anything which is different, a cyclist appears different fron a driver.


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## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

gaz said:


> Some people genuinely raise hate because they nearly or did get knocked over by a cyclist because they did xyz.
> I've meat them outside of cycling abd they express that opinion to me without a prompt.



I grant that some people have (for them) good reason we are all shaped by experience to some extent but most of the hostility practiced is by bullies who just see other people as an impediment to that which they wish to do.


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## Tinuts (20 Jul 2011)

Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.


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## rowan 46 (20 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.



fair point


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## soulful dog (20 Jul 2011)

I hate cyclists who cycle through red lights. Get off the road if you aren't going to follow the rules of the road.

What makes it even worse is that I know fine well that there will be plenty of people sitting in their cars watching them sail through red lights thinking "I bloody hate cyclists", and they then view it as a general dislike of cyclists so that will possibly impact me when I'm on my bike.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.


Anyone know what other parts of Europe are like?


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## HLaB (20 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.



+1Go to just about any European country, France, Italy, Spain or Holland etc and its a completely different attitude, is it because they emphasise with cyclist more, as they are more likely to know somebody who cycles or cycle themself. Contrast that to the the not so good ol USA the hatred seems worse the UK, Portland exempted.


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## Angelfishsolo (20 Jul 2011)

soulful dog said:


> I hate cyclists who cycle through red lights. Get off the road if you aren't going to follow the rules of the road.
> 
> What makes it even worse is that I know fine well that there will be plenty of people sitting in their cars watching them sail through red lights thinking "I bloody hate cyclists", and they then view it as a general dislike of cyclists so that will possibly impact me when I'm on my bike.


I tried making this point but was shot down in flames as "it is safe and the law is stupid"!


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## 400bhp (20 Jul 2011)

Isn't the question why would we care?


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## HLaB (20 Jul 2011)

400bhp said:


> Isn't the question why would we care?




Unfortunately a few folk have been the victims of such rage, thats maybe why


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## abo (21 Jul 2011)

Jealousy and the queuing mentality. Imagine the driver sat in a long traffic queue creeping forward every now and then. Every time a bike sails past filtering the driver

a) is jealous because the driver would *love* to be able to bypass the traffic in his/her car and not have to wait
b) is infuriated, because they have, in the driver's mind 'jumped the queue' which in Britain is a big no-no and
c) see cyclists RLJ and ride on the pavement and get away with it, while (again, in their mind) they are persecuted with speed cameras, parking tickets etc.

I know a and b are almost contradictory but who said like makes sense 

Then, they read in the papers, internet, hear from mates and colleagues and bloke down the pub the rest of the crap: don't pay road tax, lycra louts etc. and it just all melds together into something to rage against


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## d87heaven (21 Jul 2011)

Society just seems to have a lack of respect in general. 

My biggest change to the way I drive around cyclists was to become one myself. Perhaps everyone needs to be made to cycle one day a week  or do a yearly cycling course.


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## GrasB (21 Jul 2011)

I think one of the biggest reasons is that people don't leave enough time for journeys. It's not just cyclist who get the 'hate', there's a whole list of things that people say they hate - mopeds on NSL roads, people who are cautious pulling out of side roads onto a main road, slow moving vehicles, etc.


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## pepecat (21 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Jealousy and the queuing mentality. Imagine the driver sat in a long traffic queue creeping forward every now and then. Every time a bike sails past filtering the driver
> 
> a) is jealous because the driver would *love* to be able to bypass the traffic in his/her car and not have to wait
> b) is infuriated, because they have, in the driver's mind 'jumped the queue' which in Britain is a big no-no and
> c) see cyclists RLJ and ride on the pavement and get away with it, while (again, in their mind) they are persecuted with speed cameras, parking tickets etc.



a & b are fair enough for a driver to get wound up about - i do myself sometimes when i'm sat in the car (well, a anyway - I've never thought of it in terms of queue jumping)
When I'm cycling, I will pass the line of traffic and 'queue jump' but what I will NOT do is jump the red light. If i'm on the road, i obey the road rules. Generally, once the traffic gets moving all those drivers who've been wound up by me passing them in the queue will now be passing me, so I don't really see what they have to get wound up about.....


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## Andrew_P (21 Jul 2011)

Cycling Scum


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## ClichéGuevara (21 Jul 2011)

An advantage other countries, like France, have over us is space.

We're a cramped little Island with a very well used infrastructure that's creaking under the strain. Cyclists often appear after a number of other delays, that will have built up irritation levels. Bollards and seemingly unworked road maintenance sites irritate, but as there's nobody there, there's nobody to target it at.


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## BSRU (21 Jul 2011)

I get the impressions sometimes that some drivers drive badly out of ignorance/lack of empathy.

Swindon is not a great road cycling town so drivers, especially learners, have little experience of how to drive near cyclists on the road.


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## abo (21 Jul 2011)

pepecat said:


> Generally, once the traffic gets moving all those drivers who've been wound up by me passing them in the queue will now be passing me, so I don't really see what they have to get wound up about.....



Not in London 

Like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to make sense


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## Jetstream (21 Jul 2011)

cyclist aren't the only one who get it in the neck, i drive a traction engine and we get so much abuse


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## al-fresco (21 Jul 2011)

I'm a driver and a cyclist, sometimes I hate myself...


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## Red Light (21 Jul 2011)

Jetstream said:


> cyclist aren't the only one who get it in the neck, i drive a traction engine and we get so much abuse



You can add caravaners in there too. In fact anyone who either slows Mr Toad in his progress or gains an advantage on him in traffic.


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## Wankelschrauben (21 Jul 2011)

LOCO said:


> Cycling Scum




Ahaha, I read a few pages, soon they will meet Wankelschrauben, and soon they will rage.


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## Jezston (21 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> +1Go to just about any European country, France, Italy, Spain or Holland etc and its a completely different attitude, is it because they emphasise with cyclist more, as they are more likely to know somebody who cycles or cycle themself. Contrast that to the the not so good ol USA the hatred seems worse the UK, Portland exempted.




USA is far worse - standards of driving outside of concentrated urban areas are very poor due to long distances driven, cruise control, laws like jaywalking making the roads very much a car-only space and few controls on things like using mobile phones, drinking etc. Heard several stories of drivers that have just run straight into the back of people cycling or jogging along the side of the road and read myriad responses of "well what was he doing on the road anyway? How was the driver expected to see them?" as if they genuinely believe it's not the drivers responsibility to look out for unexpected things in front of them.

Australia is worse than the UK too with increasing restrictions on cycling like mandatory helmet use. A friend of mine works in Perth and tried commuting by bike for a while and gave up because of the relentless abuse he got from drivers.


Its weird though from the impression I get from older cyclists, i.e. those 60+ that attitudes towards cyclists were much more continental in the past.


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## tyred (21 Jul 2011)

Are French drivers really so well behaved around cyclists or is this a myth?

I have never been to France personally but the reason I ask is because I have a French friend who is perfectly happy to cycle in Ireland when she's here but says she refuses to cycle on the roads at home in France (Reims area) because French drivers are total maniacs. It's a very different opinion to the one I read here and elsewhere.


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## WychwoodTrev (21 Jul 2011)

British drivers seem to hate motorcyclist I have worked with atleast 3 who pull out to stop them filtering in trafic, yet in the rest of europe they seem to love bikers whether with a engine or not


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## al-fresco (21 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Its weird though from the impression I get from older cyclists, i.e. those 60+ that attitudes towards cyclists were much more continental in the past.




Back then most drivers had ridden bikes before they got their first car, so they understood the vulnerability of a cyclist. And there was less traffic and less congestion.

To be honest I still meet with many more examples of unexpectedly courteous and patient drivers than I do with dickheads.


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## Jezston (21 Jul 2011)

tyred said:


> Are French drivers really so well behaved around cyclists or is this a myth?
> 
> I have never been to France personally but the reason I ask is because I have a French friend who is perfectly happy to cycle in Ireland when she's here but says she refuses to cycle on the roads at home in France (Reims area) because French drivers are total maniacs. It's a very different opinion to the one I read here and elsewhere.



They are all total maniacs, but they don't hate cyclists.


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## Angelfishsolo (21 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> They are all total maniacs, but they don't hate cyclists.



Who was it who said "I'm not racist; I hate every F*ck3r"?


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## Bicycle (21 Jul 2011)

I've driven, cycled and ridden a motorcycle quite a lot in the UK, France and the Westen Balkans. My general impression is that drivers on the whole are thoughtful, courteous and polite towards cyclists. As bicycle-friendly environments I'd rate France above the UK and the UK above most of the W Balkans.

However, none provided an environment that would dissuade me from riding.

I wonder sometimes whether we might be looking for an idealised 'Mary Poppins' driver in every vehicle.

People have off days; we are all prone to lapses in concentration.

I can't help observing that the vast majority of other road users are thoroughly nice to me at all times, whatever means of transport I'm using.

Those who are (very) occasionally horrid are probably not so because they are in a car. They may just be horrid people.

I was riding in London with a friend a few days ago. He is a 'shouter' and took issue with quite a few pieces of poor driving. Although he enjoyed the ride, he got a bit hot and bothered at times. He was yelling the sort of helpful advice one sometimes hears in Helmetcammery footage.

Never further than 20 feet from him, I had a much lovelier ride. I was cut up a few times, but there was no constructive comment to be made. I said nothing and made no unhelpful hand signals.

Nothing my friend yelled at any of the malefactors is likely to have caused a sort of Damascene conversion in them. It is more likely to have made them cross and a little bit anti-cyclist.

He made a lot of noise and irritated more road users than the ones who had driven badly.

We are both drivers as well as cyclists. I had the nicer ride by far, but he probably felt a lot better for all his justified shouting and anger.

Car drivers are generally nice, thoughtful considerate people. As are most other road users.

Nobody hates anybody. I exclude the footballer Lee Bowyer from this essay. I suspect he may be prone to hatred.


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## Mad at urage (21 Jul 2011)

al-fresco said:


> To be honest I still meet with many more examples of unexpectedly courteous and patient drivers than I do with dickheads.


This.


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## cd365 (21 Jul 2011)

Car drivers do not hate cyclists. What *some *drivers don't like is being held up, especially if they are in a rush and perceive a cyclist as someone who will hold them up so just try to get past as quickly and as safely as they perceives it to be, but to a cyclist it wasn't safe, cyclist shouts, car driver shouts. You then get other drivers who are complete morons, they find it funny to drive past close, shout abuse, throw things etc. just because to them it is funny, not because of hate, they probably would do the same thing to an OAP ped.

I have a lot of very good overtakes but tend to only remember or comment on the bad ones. Yesterday I made a comment to afellow cyclist how on my previous evening's run out I was overtaken by quite a few vans and every overtake was a good one. Some WVM are less than considerate, but not that night, lsat night was a different matter!


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## lulubel (21 Jul 2011)

al78 said:


> That is unfortunately an inevitable consequence of modern life and trying to (or being forced to) squeeze more and more things into the day. Time is valuable and so when someone gets held up, it can feel to them like a theft of their limited time.



And this, I think, is the answer to the question of why British drivers "hate" cyclists while other nationalities (such as French and Spanish) don't. Over here, people have a much more laid back attitude, and don't try to fit so much into their day. Everything still gets done eventually, but people very rarely get stressed over it.

That attitude translates to being OK with waiting in a queue for 15 minutes - or longer - and waiting patiently behind a cyclist until there's an opportunity to pass safely. Like in France, driving styles here are very "continental", and different to what those of us from the UK are used to. People are much less precious about their metal boxes here, and most cars have dents and scrapes from low speed knocks, but serious accidents don't seem to be any more common, and drivers are much more likely to be careful around vulnerable road users, and to be happy to take a bit of extra time.

My OH was riding in primary (almost on the white line) this morning to avoid the terrible surface at the side of the road, and a car first tried to squeeze down the wrong side to get past her, then the driver hurled abuse at her when she moved back over because the road surface improved, effectively closing the gap. The driver was British.


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## Moodyman (21 Jul 2011)

Having an impatient, inconsiderate driver behind you ain't nice, but being stuck behind a sanctimonious pedaller is equally as annoying.

I'm a driver and a cyclist. I'm considerate of both viewpoints and have never had run ins with drivers. Perhaps I cycle in a friendly area, perhaps I'm a friendly guy, or maybe a bit of both. Make your own mind up.


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## The Dwaff Family (21 Jul 2011)

Most we witness are jus too impatient and can't possibly wait for a safe place to overtake. Even when some idiot in a car saw my tiny son on the road it didn't stop him, over took soo closely to him and then had to pull right back in to avoid oncoming car. Was only my son's ability to react very fast and drop back that stopped an accident. It's a sad, sad world when someone can not even try to be a little more careful when seeing a tiny person. 

But these drivers are the one's who are likely to drive up your backside, no use of indicator's, they're just an idiot to anyone else on the road regardless of whether be a cyclist, car, etc etc.


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## John the Monkey (21 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Australia is worse than the UK too with increasing restrictions on cycling like mandatory helmet use. A friend of mine works in Perth and tried commuting by bike for a while and gave up because of the relentless abuse he got from drivers.



I think Mark Beaumont said something similar - he reckoned it was the only place on his round the world trip that anyone spontaneously told him to "F*ck off" because he was on a bike.


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## Jezston (21 Jul 2011)

Moodyman said:


> Having an impatient, inconsiderate driver behind you ain't nice, but being stuck behind a sanctimonious pedaller is equally as annoying.



Is it also as equally terrifying? Do you feel like your safety is in jeopardy when a cyclist is slowing you down?


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## Cubist (21 Jul 2011)

I think the word he used was annoying......


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## Moodyman (21 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Is it also as equally terrifying? Do you feel like your safety is in jeopardy when a cyclist is slowing you down?




Thing is Jezza, I don't feel terrified. Good positioning on the road, good eye contact, early signalling and awareness of surroundings help negate any fear.

I ride the same couple of routes every day and at the same time, so most of the drivers I see are the same every morning. I make it a habit to thank every considerate maneouvre - even when they've not done owt special.

Why? it's not just the driver behind but those nearby who see this. Message spreads - good driving is appreciated. 

Some say being 6' 2" and having a rugby player physique help. I think it's my preference for soft power that keep the wheels going round.


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## barongreenback (21 Jul 2011)

I think a friendly wave to a car driver who has been behind you, even if just for 30 seconds or so, goes a long way. The whole point of cars is that they get you from A-B quickly (most of the time) so being held up by a cyclist can be an irritation. That said, it's only a minority of drivers who 'hate' cyclists and I'm sure the opposite applies too.


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## r80 (21 Jul 2011)

I always hate cycling when I can feel a car behind moving around the lane right behind me impatiently waiting for a chance to floor it past. As a result I cycle quite fast until I get to a country lane and can lower my heart rate and start to pace myself. I remember once a bus went straight past me at about 60mph and barely moved over, the wind it caused unbalanced me massively. I agree with the comments about everyone being in a permanent rush to get somewhere.

I also shamefully admit to riding on the pavement on a bike (an old MTB where lots of effort is needed doing 25 as you run out of gears to use) but I think (hope) I give pedestrians lots of room, I always slow as I pass by.

A bit of info, when car seatbelts became mandatory, cyclist injuries increased, presumably as everyone drove around like they were in tanks. (Safest place to out a spike on a car is on the steering wheel?) 

That Silly cyclists page, there will never be one called Sensible cyclists, and you will never tell a friend, some bloody cyclist indicated with his arm and cycled safely. But you would say, damn cyclist jumped a red earlier. 

Yep I joined just to have a rant.


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## Angelfishsolo (21 Jul 2011)

r80 said:


> A bit of info, when car seatbelts became mandatory, cyclist injuries increased, presumably as everyone drove around like they were in tanks. (Safest place to out a spike on a car is on the steering wheel?)


The number of drivers and passengers in A&E also increased at the same time.


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## GrasB (22 Jul 2011)

Moodyman said:


> I'm a driver and a cyclist. I'm considerate of both viewpoints and have never had run ins with drivers. Perhaps I cycle in a friendly area, perhaps I'm a friendly guy, or maybe a bit of both. Make your own mind up.


Or lucky? I had a run in with a driver this morning. The driver initially past me going the other way, went round a mini-roundabout, deliberately did a close pass & shouted something, did a U-turn waited for me to pass him again & shouted "get a car you f**king w**ker!". He obviously has some issues.


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## johnnyh (22 Jul 2011)

I am coming to the conclusion that "professional drivers" are the worst for attitude. Taxi drivers seem to be bullies, and many of the bus drivers who use the Wellsway in Bath like to nudge across the lane as they go by.

95% of other drivers on my 15-20 miles commute are good, giving plenty of space, waiting until it is safe etc... Sure there is one that doesn't, but it tends not to be aggressive when they don't, just not good driving.

Maybe it is the benefit of living in Somerset and not in a major city/suburb? All my "hassles" with vehicles pretty much happen once in Bath.

I have resisted getting a camera, as I almost feel it is looking for trouble, but it would be interesting to see footage of said taxis and buses behaviour. 

Like the idiot taxi driver yesterday, I filtered up the cycle lane into the ASL at the bus gates in the town, and positioned myself front and centre as it is narrow. After 2 or 3 mins we get the green light and he forces past with barely 6 inches clearance... it gets him 100 yards ahead where he has to stop in the heavy traffic queued on Broad Street... I cycle past his window and inform him "that was a dumb place to overtake, wasn't it?", and continue on my way, his passengers hopefully realising they were in a vehicle driven by a nasty fool.


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## asterix (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The number of drivers and passengers in A&E also increased at the same time.




It might have been an alternative to the mortuary?


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## Cyclopathic (22 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.




I agree that we seem to have a very poor atitude towards cyclists in this country. It may be getting better very slowly but I think that is only because more people are cycling which is in turn down to economics largely. For some reason though we treat cycling as a second rate activity which should be left to children and we treat cyclists as if they were a complete nuicance. I know I'm generalising but I am talking about general attitudes.

I think a lot of work needs to be done to raise the status of cycling in this country and real efforts made to get as many people on their bikes as possible. Instaed of just stating the benifits to cyclists of cycling much more emphasis should be put on the benifits to everybody.


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## johnnyh (22 Jul 2011)

yep there is a perception that cycling is "odd". As i was thinking about my ride home yesterday a friend sent me a message saying "you could be in a nice dry warm car, why would anyone want to cycle"...

well I passed hundreds of frustrated drivers in their nice warm cars, as they sat misting up in the gridlocked traffic, and I arrived home feeling stress free and alive.

It isn't a case of it being the only option, I have a big shiny truck on the drive, but like many cycle commuters I just prefer to ride.

With regards France, I love cycling there, drivers do give you much more space and are more patient with cyclists... they seem to give no time or space to other cars though.
Not sure what it is like cycling in major French cities though, maybe it is the same as here?


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

asterix said:


> It might have been an alternative to the mortuary?



No. Seatbelts save so many lives that A&E were flooded with people involved in Car Crashes who would over-wise have have died.


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## leemo (22 Jul 2011)

I give much more room to cyclists when driving, now that I am a motorist and a cycle commuter, compared to when I was just a motorist. That wasnt out of malice, just ignorance. I simply didnt realise what it was like to be on a cycle with a motor car passing only 1 ft away. Yes I should have read in the highway code to give a cyclist as much room as a car but I didnt.


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## NeilEB (22 Jul 2011)

Ok, I'm a motorist who is looking to start cycling. To be honest, until recently I barely even noticed a cyclist, other then as an annoyance slowing down my commute to work.
I was never nasty, or rude, but possibly guilty of not giving them quite as much room as I should have when overtaking.
I never 'hated' cyclist, but in truth our roads are poorly designed and are way too narrow, making overtaking difficult so instead you get stuck behind someone going about 10 miles an hour - which is no fun at all.

I'm sure it's this frustration that eventually boils over and leads to close overtaking - rather then any actual malice towards the rider ( the driver in GrasB's post not included obviously)


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## Simba (22 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Ok, I'm a motorist who is looking to start cycling. To be honest, until recently I barely even noticed a cyclist, other then as an annoyance slowing down my commute to work.
> I was never nasty, or rude, but possibly guilty of not giving them quite as much room as I should have when overtaking.
> I never 'hated' cyclist, but in truth our roads are poorly designed and are way too narrow, making overtaking difficult so instead you get stuck behind someone going about 10 miles an hour - which is no fun at all.
> 
> I'm sure it's this frustration that eventually boils over and leads to close overtaking - rather then any actual malice towards the rider ( the driver in GrasB's post not included obviously)



10 miles an hour? I travel faster than that as an average speed. 15-16mph averages, on flats I can do 25mph without much effort, descents up to 41mph so far and can go faster. Do you cut up a slower moving car or close overtake? No didn't think so.


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## kedab (22 Jul 2011)

i don't hate anyone on the road really but i do hate sh!t drivers and sh!t cyclists - do something spectacularly stupid/dangerous/illogical/against the laws in my vicinity and i will get just as angry no matter your choice of transport - i will forgive you if you apologise quickly though - which is why i always hold my hand up in a pre-emptive wave of apology and mouth 'sorry' over my shoulder just seconds before i break my own rules


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## NeilEB (22 Jul 2011)

Simba said:


> 10 miles an hour? I travel faster than that as an average speed. 15-16mph averages, on flats I can do 25mph without much effort, descents up to 41mph so far and can go faster. Do you cut up a slower moving car or close overtake? No didn't think so.



Ok let me explain.

For instnace yesterday on my way home after a long journey home from Manchester, I was close to home and found myself behind a cyclist doing around 10mph. There wasn't enough room to overtake (I live in London, narrow streets etc), so I sat back and waited for a gap. I could see the guy in the car behind me was getting impatient, and he actually followed me in overtaking the bike - but he must have been pretty close the the traffic island when he was passing.

All I was trying to highlight is that before I decided to take up cycling, I wasn't really aware of bikes as anything other then slow moving things delaying me on my way to work. 

So in answer to the original question: most drivers don't hate cyclists, but some dislike being slowed down by them on their daily commute.


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## User16625 (22 Jul 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> Drivers don't hate cyclists. If they did then I'd hate myself 'cause I'm both. I think people in general are just becoming more self-centred and impatient. Many people get outraged if someone holds them up for 2 seconds, whether it's someone on a bike, someone driving slowly, or someone being slow putting their things away at the till. Many people don't see themselves as part of society anymore, it's just me, me, me.



But if that so called hold up is caused without good reason then people will naturally get pissed off. I come up behind the occasional motorist doing about 30mph or so on a 60mph road. Given the lack of safe overtaking opportunities then people are bound to bully that slow motorists and rightly so. Having said that, deliberately driving rediculously slow is a form of bullying itself as they are purposely causing an obstruction and inciting motorists to take risks.


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## kedab (22 Jul 2011)

The Sperminator said:


> deliberately driving rediculously slow is a form of bullying itself



i had to make my missus aware of this very fact a few weeks ago! slowing right down on a dual carriageway just cos some div was sitting quite close behind - i was like, 'er...WTF are you doing honey?!'


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## User16625 (22 Jul 2011)

kedab said:


> i had to make my missus aware of this very fact a few weeks ago! slowing right down on a dual carriageway just cos some div was sitting quite close behind - i was like, 'er...WTF are you doing honey?!'



I can understand your missus. As a motorcyclists I more than despise motorists tailgating me as it puts my life at great risk with little consequence to them. I also slow right down coz I just cant tolerate it. I will pull over for drivers to pass if they are following me and clearly want to overtake, but tailgating really offends me beyond words. Thats one thing I love about mountain biking, no traffic to worry about.


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## Red Light (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The number of drivers and passengers in A&E also increased at the same time.



No they didn't but they didn't go down. Read the Isles Report.


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## Red Light (22 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Ok let me explain.
> I was close to home and found myself behind a cyclist doing around 10mph.
> 
> So in answer to the original question: most drivers don't hate cyclists, but some dislike being slowed down by them on their daily commute.



And the average speed for traffic in London is.......?


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Red Light said:


> No they didn't but they didn't go down. Read the Isles Report.


That is one report. Others show that they clearly save lives!


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## cd365 (22 Jul 2011)

Simba said:


> 10 miles an hour? I travel faster than that as an average speed. 15-16mph averages, on flats I can do 25mph without much effort, descents up to 41mph so far and can go faster. Do you cut up a slower moving car or close overtake? No didn't think so.



Lots of cyclists pootle along at 10 mile an hour or so. I have witnessed many cars cutting in front of a slower moving vehicle and have been overtaken in my car many times and thought that the other car was way to close when they started/during/completing an overtake. It's not just cyclists who suffer from poor drivers. I have been on my motorbike and have had cars try to block me from overtaking.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Police, Camera, Action just did a spot on RLJ'S and pavement cyclists and mentioned the possibility of bikes being given number plates.


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## Fiona N (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The number of drivers and passengers in A&E also increased at the same time.



As opposed to numbers in the morgue


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## Bicycle (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Police, Camera, Action just did a spot on RLJ'S and pavement cyclists and mentioned the possibility of bikes being given number plates.




Isn't that the show whose presenter used to take a high moral tone about drunk drivers and was then slapped with a long ban for just that offence?

I think it's more video wallpaper for gaps in the schedule than a TV show.

If bicycles are ever required to carry number plates, I'll eat my..... bicycle number plate.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Fiona N said:


> As opposed to numbers in the morgue


Seatbelts save lives but people still get injured hence more A and E admissions


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## Red Light (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> That is one report. Others show that they clearly save lives!



Such as? 

Link


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## Fiona N (22 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> ...but in truth our roads are poorly designed and are way too narrow, making overtaking difficult so instead you get stuck behind someone going about 10 miles an hour - which is no fun at all....



I think you're right - it's just impatience and frustration but I wish the drivers would keep their brains engaged. Kendal has horrendous traffic, close to girdlock twice every day so drivers should realise that racing through the traffic light/junction and cutting up the cyclist will get them precisely nowhere as they have to stop in the next bit of the queue, whereas the cyclist glides on past the stationary cars. So why not let the cyclist get away then moisie across the junction without trying to get to 60mph in 30 metres and having to do an emergency stop to avoid hitting the other cars. It's this 'blinded by the cyclist' attitude that gets me. The drivers seem to make it a point of 'honour' not to do anything to make my life easier so I just cycle past the driver's side window and murmur something rude when I know I'm going to be home before they get out of the traffic jam.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Red Light said:


> Such as?
> 
> Link


http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/seat_belts.html


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## Bicycle (22 Jul 2011)

reiver said:


> Sometimes a little bit of tail gaiting shows the driver in front you would like to pass. If you hang back 2 or 3 car lengths the person in front may think you are happy at their speed.




Oh you cheeky, cheeky poster!

 

I believe this might get the quantity of responses you're aiming for.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

reiver said:


> Tail gaiting provides the tailgater with the least visability of what is ahead and also makes it harder to overtake safely as building up speed can only be achieved once the car has been passed. Better to hang back ensure you have a clear path accelerate upto the car and then pass. That way you are at optimal OT speed and minimise your time in wrong lane.


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## HLaB (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Police, Camera, Action just did a spot on RLJ'S and pavement cyclists and mentioned the possibility of bikes being given number plates.



That episode is repeated every couple of weeks I think its 10 years old or more. Ironically the presenter got done for drink driving twice.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> That episode is repeated every couple of weeks I think its 10 years old or more. Ironically the presenter got done for drink driving twice.


It mentioned the 2012 London Olympics so not sure it is same episode?
If he has been done for DUI then he should be sacked IMHO.


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## MockCyclist (22 Jul 2011)

The Sperminator said:


> ... people are bound to bully that slow motorists and rightly so.



Astonishing. There's no minimum speed limit in this country. Some drivers aren't comfortable with high speeds and drive within their own limits. Please don’t say they shouldn't be on the road if they can't travel faster, that would be real irony.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

The Sperminator said:


> But if that so called hold up is caused without good reason then people will naturally get pissed off. I come up behind the occasional motorist doing about 30mph or so on a 60mph road. Given the lack of safe overtaking opportunities then people are bound to bully that slow motorists and rightly so. Having said that, deliberately driving rediculously slow is a form of bullying itself as they are purposely causing an obstruction and inciting motorists to take risks.


Are you daring to say that bullying is acceptable? If so, you Sir are an idiot.


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## Bicycle (22 Jul 2011)

I fear this thread may have become a deliberate red rag. Huge fun, but it might upset some more 'serious' contributors.

This afternoon we've had the following:

1. Bullying slow drivers is fine...  

2. Tailgating is a good way to let people know you want to pass them....  

We've also had some discussion about whether seatbelts in cars are a good thing...

This is huge fun to read, but I fear this silliness might cause some offence to someone who takes their own opinions very seriously....

Could a 'wind-up' flag be agreed for posts on this thread?


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I fear this thread may have become a deliberate red rag. Huge fun, but it might upset some more 'serious' contributors.
> 
> This afternoon we've had the following:
> 
> ...


I find these tangental threads interesting but you are right in this case.


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## Red Light (22 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> http://www.car-accid...seat_belts.html



Wonderful. Just wonderful. You put the website of car accident lawyers touting for business up as your evidence the Isles Report is wrong. 

Do you have any serious reports?


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## al78 (22 Jul 2011)

MockCyclist said:


> Astonishing. There's no minimum speed limit in this country. Some drivers aren't comfortable with high speeds and drive within their own limits. Please don’t say they shouldn't be on the road if they can't travel faster, that would be real irony.



Up to a point.

http://www.ukadi.co.uk/2008/09/driving-test-failed-too-slow.html

There have been cases where the police have pulled over very slow drivers on the basis of inconsiderate driving or driving without due care or attention.

http://www.bllaw.co....n_motorway.aspx

You would also fail an advanced driving test for not making reasonable progress that the conditions allow.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Red Light said:


> Wonderful. Just wonderful. You put the website of car accident lawyers touting for business up as your evidence the Isles Report is wrong.
> 
> Do you have any serious reports?



Why is the Isles Report right in your eyes. Was the Beeching report right? Anyway a small sample of available evidence to back up the assertion that seatbelts save lives. 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1197/j.aem.2005.11.003/abstract

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/seatbelts.shtml

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme5/reportno98.pdf

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/reports/aa-seat-belt-report.pdf


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## Bicycle (22 Jul 2011)

I have to admit I've never read the Isles Report.

I've looked at some of the writings of Adams; I think it's very clever and makes wonderful reading for people who live in a theoretical world.

It makes a great basis for dinner-table conversation, but I remain strongly in favour of lap & diagonal seatbelts.

I confess to not always wearing a belt, although my current modern car gets very cross and bings at me.

I also have an old relic with no belts and no 'binger' either. 

With questions about the validity of seabelt laws, it may be best for people to keep their own opinions to themselves.

This is a cycling forum. It can be quite difficult to have an unobstructed view of the world around you from halfway up your own backside. I aim that comment at no-one in particular... particularly not anyone who bangs on about the Isles Report and how it re-shaped mankind's quest for truth and harmony.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I have to admit I've never read the Isles Report.
> 
> I've looked at some of the writings of Adams; I think it's very clever and makes wonderful reading for people who live in a theoretical world.
> 
> ...


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## ClichéGuevara (22 Jul 2011)

MockCyclist said:


> Astonishing. There's no minimum speed limit in this country. Some drivers aren't comfortable with high speeds and drive within their own limits. Please don’t say they shouldn't be on the road if they can't travel faster, that would be real irony.




WHOOPS SORRY I'VE JUST SEEN SOMEONE'S MADE THE SAME POINTS. IGNORE.

Isn't there an offence of making undue progress? I know at one time it would be a test fail and it seems to be supported by the Highway Code recommendation for slow moving traffic to pull over.

People (in cars) tootling at 40mph on a 60 mph road should be pulled over by the Police imho.


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## 400bhp (22 Jul 2011)

You often find the person doing 42 in a NSL continues to do 42 in a 30.

42 seems to be the speed for these types BTW.


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## kedab (22 Jul 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I confess to not always wearing a belt, although my current modern car gets very cross and bings at me.
> 
> I also have an old relic with no belts and no 'binger' either.



 text book stuff -


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

ClichéGuevara said:


> WHOOPS SORRY I'VE JUST SEEN SOMEONE'S MADE THE SAME POINTS. IGNORE.
> 
> Isn't there an offence of making undue progress? I know at one time it would be a test fail and it seems to be supported by the Highway Code recommendation for slow moving traffic to pull over.
> 
> People (in cars) tootling at 40mph on a 60 mph road should be pulled over by the Police imho.


Do the weather conditions allow for 60mph?


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## 400bhp (22 Jul 2011)

Straw man alert.


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## MockCyclist (22 Jul 2011)

The post was really about someone suggesting it's ok to bully slow motorists … and on a thread which is bemoaning motorists bullying slow cyclists.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

400bhp said:


> Straw man alert.


If straw man means someone with common sense then I take a bow.


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## Angelfishsolo (22 Jul 2011)

MockCyclist said:


> The post was really about someone suggesting it's ok to bully slow motorists … and on a thread which is bemoaning motorists bullying slow cyclists.


You are forgetting the law. Might is right! Also cyclists have immunity to the law.


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## Bicycle (23 Jul 2011)

reiver said:


> Hmmm, you seem to have dissected my post, and put me all out of context. :-)
> 
> 
> If I wanted to troll, I would have suggested tailgaiting squeaky little cans on the school run in my Range Rover only improved my crumple zone and better protected Tarquin and Anabel. However it wasn't meant as a troll, and in any case I don't drive Satan's chariot_._




I've had another look at your post and it still looks to me that you're advocating briefly closing right up on a driver to demonstrate your intention to pass.

You suggest that this is better than hanging 2 or 3 car lengths behind them, where they might not get the message.

First; at normal extra-urban speeds 2 or 3 car lengths is terribly close. I should say dangerously close.

Secondly; in the same post you suggest slowing to 20-30 mph if tailgated by a large 4x4 on an NSL road where passing is difficult. You accept that this might annoy the following driver.

I appreciate that your vaunted method of signalling an intention to pass involves tailgating only momentarily, but it is still tailgating. 

Your proposed antidote to someone tailgating over a longer period of time is to slow to 20 or 30.... Who is to the the arbiter of what represents an acceptable period of time?

I live between Herefordshire, London and the Valleys. Much of my driving and cycling is done is single-carriageway NSL roads where passing is not possible. 

I am very surprised that you think it safe to tailgate someone momentarily to signal a wish to pass.

I'm also surprised that you appear to suggest that 2 or 3 car lengths is a safe distance or 'hanging back'.

The advocating of a driver slowing to 20 or 30 to deter aggressive tailgating by a 4x4 just baffles me. What do you think I should do if I find myself in a bull's field with a red rag in my hand? Wave it maybe?

There are awful drivers out there. We are not the Police. 

I do not hang about when driving but would be uncomfortable if followed on an extra-urban road at 2 or 3 car lengths. So would most drivers.

Similarly, I would be slightly intimidated by a motorist coming up to 'tailgating' distance from my car to signal a wish to pass. So would most drivers.

Further, when you slow down to 20 or 30 as a response to the tailgating 4x4, you not only enrage the bull, you slow down every driver behind him or her for the duration of the procedure.

I'm not sure I dissected your post and put it all out of context. I really thought you were dropping a Mickey Finn in the vodka. Having re-read your post and others on this thread, I'm still not sure.

We all have moments as drivers of cyclists when we find ourselves too close to another vehicle. It's embarrassing but it happens.

Few of us would advocate it on a forum thread.


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## GrasB (23 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> ClichéGuevara said:
> 
> 
> > People (in cars) tootling at 40mph on a 60 mph road should be pulled over by the Police imho.
> ...


Many years ago I was driving up a motorway in a little Fiat Cinquecento when the heavens opened. It only took a few seconds of torrential downpour before I could feel the car darting left & right as it got pulled this way by the small road imperfections as it repeatedly aquaplaned momentarily on the deeper bits of standing water while doing 70mph. I slowed down to 35-40mph where I had full control of the car, still there were many cars passing me doing +70mph. I got of the motorway ASAP & tip-toed my way home on back roads. When I got home, several hours late, my girlfriend was frantically worried because there had been a massive pile up on the route I would have normally used. The reason for the pile up? On a particularly deep bit of standing water 2 cars had slid into the central reservation & gone spiralling across the carriage way hitting various other vehicles - in short, they were driving to fast for the weather conditions.


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## ClichéGuevara (23 Jul 2011)

My mates mam was what's best described as a hesitant driver and was getting tailgated and flashed by a car following.

She woke my mate, who was asleep in the passenger seat and probably not visible from behind, and mentioned it. 
He said he'd have a look to see if there was anything wrong with their car at the next red light. 
As he got out the car to check the bumper was still on, (he's 6'3" 20+ stone with a face that's been slept in), he could hear the doors locking and windows closing on the car behind, the driver shrinking into his seat and passengers pretending they were engrossed in something out of the side windows. 

There are times when words aren't needed. He just checked his mams car, stared into theirs, smiled and got back in the passenger seat and they carried on as they were but minus flashing lights.


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## Angelfishsolo (23 Jul 2011)

GrasB said:


> Many years ago I was driving up a motorway in a little Fiat Cinquecento when the heavens opened. It only took a few seconds of torrential downpour before I could feel the car darting left & right as it got pulled this way by the small road imperfections as it repeatedly aquaplaned momentarily on the deeper bits of standing water while doing 70mph. I slowed down to 35-40mph where I had full control of the car, still there were many cars passing me doing +70mph. I got of the motorway ASAP & tip-toed my way home on back roads. When I got home, several hours late, my girlfriend was frantically worried because there had been a massive pile up on the route I would have normally used. The reason for the pile up? On a particularly deep bit of standing water 2 cars had slid into the central reservation & gone spiralling across the carriage way hitting various other vehicles - in short, they were driving to fast for the weather conditions.



Sadly some people only learn the hard way. When in my 20's I believed that the speed limit was an invitation to drive that fast now 40 I realise it is a max speed in optimal conditions.


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## Angelfishsolo (23 Jul 2011)

ClichéGuevara said:


> My mates mam was what's best described as a hesitant driver and was getting tailgated and flashed by a car following.
> 
> She woke my mate, who was asleep in the passenger seat and probably not visible from behind, and mentioned it.
> He said he'd have a look to see if there was anything wrong with their car at the next red light.
> ...



Similar tail but 6'7" Major in the R.M.P was the driver


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## JBP (23 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Surely that should be "Why do British drivers hate cyclists?". Go to France and it's an entirely different attitude.



Interestingly the handful of French-plated cars I've encountered on my couple of weeks of commuting usually produce an unnervingly close pass...


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## raindog (23 Jul 2011)

JBP said:


> Interestingly the handful of French-plated cars I've encountered on my couple of weeks of commuting usually produce an unnervingly close pass...


Doesn't necessarily mean they hate cyclists, it just means they're crap drivers.







*
*


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## sevelancs (23 Jul 2011)

well after riding my current hybrid to commute after 20yrs off a bike its manic, I dont think road users hate us its not personal its more they hate us slowing them down as the world is in a rush. I am a driver by trade and always give time for cyclists as I understand how bad it is on bikes. Give room. The side of the road is gnarly at best with drains drops in tarmac etc so its understandable cyclists use room especially those on skinny tyres.

Its not just motorists people hate for any reason these days


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## Tinuts (23 Jul 2011)

raindog said:


> Doesn't necessarily mean they hate cyclists, it just means they're crap drivers.


Clearly a case of "When in Rome........"


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## raindog (24 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> Clearly a case of "When in Rome........"


They're still crap at home, believe me.


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## Tinuts (24 Jul 2011)

raindog said:


> They're still crap at home, believe me.


I've been cycling in France on a number of occasions (Brittany, Alps, Pyrenees) and, although I wouldn't want to portray a rose-tinted-spectacles view of the drivers there, my impression is this: As with the UK, there are certainly crap drivers over the channel but there appears to be a somewhat more benevolent attitude from other road users in general when it comes to cyclists. Granted, living in London I experience just about the worst of UK driver behaviour (and that can't really be compared with the generally rural experiences I've had in France) but, even in the UK countryside, there is a noticeable difference in the attitude of motorists when compared with their French counterparts.


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## abo (24 Jul 2011)

The Sperminator said:


> I can understand your missus. As a motorcyclists I more than despise motorists tailgating me as it puts my life at great risk with little consequence to them. I also slow right down coz I just cant tolerate it. I will pull over for drivers to pass if they are following me and clearly want to overtake, but tailgating really offends me beyond words. Thats one thing I love about mountain biking, no traffic to worry about.



Pointless holding tailgaters up IMHO, best just to let them go and have their own accident somewhere else away from you...

I remeber driving along the M6 through the lakes one time, there were three cars doing 70 in the outside lane, couldn't go anywhere due to traffic on the inside lanes. I was on the back of the train when this guy in an Audi A3 comes flying behind and starts aggressively tailgating me. So I let him go when I can, and he does the same to the car in front of me who eventually does the same. He then latches onto the back of the Volve V70 estate at the head of the queue. I think he was full of confidence now, having barged two cars out of the way, so he *really* gets close to this one.

Next thing, blue and red lights start flashing on the *unmarked police car* he is tailgating


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## abo (24 Jul 2011)

Bicycle said:


> Isn't that the show whose presenter used to take a high moral tone about drunk drivers and was then slapped with a long ban for just that offence?
> 
> I think it's more video wallpaper for gaps in the schedule than a TV show.
> 
> If bicycles are ever required to carry number plates, I'll eat my..... bicycle number plate.


We were watching one of these shows when they show a guy driving a Tigra through the streets of Middlesbrough. The commentator says he'd stolen the car from his partner after a row and was now trying to get away from the police. Just to stereotype, I said 'I bet he is gay'...

Eventually the Tigra crashes, the guy bails out and tries to run from the cops, but he does the worst 'girl run' I think I've seen and is quickly caught. Funny how often people *do* fit the stereotype


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## raindog (24 Jul 2011)

Tinuts said:


> I've been cycling in France on a number of occasions (Brittany, Alps, Pyrenees) and, although I wouldn't want to portray a rose-tinted-spectacles view of the drivers there, my impression is this: As with the UK, there are certainly crap drivers over the channel but there appears to be a somewhat more benevolent attitude from other road users in general when it comes to cyclists. Granted, living in London I experience just about the worst of UK driver behaviour (and that can't really be compared with the generally rural experiences I've had in France) but, even in the UK countryside, there is a noticeable difference in the attitude of motorists when compared with their French counterparts.


Yes, the "hate" towards cyclists seems to be a UK thing, and that's the subject of the OP, but I was answering this, which has nothing to do with hate, but everything to do with bad driving.

"Interestingly the handful of French-plated cars I've encountered on my couple of weeks of commuting usually produce an unnervingly close pass... "


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## briantrumpet (24 Jul 2011)

JBP said:


> Interestingly the handful of French-plated cars I've encountered on my couple of weeks of commuting usually produce an unnervingly close pass...


I've also had a close pass from a German car this week - I wonder if it's because of their being left-hand drive, so it somehow alters their perception of how far from the cyclist they need to be, as they are not having to allow for a great lump of car between them and you.


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## gavroche (24 Jul 2011)

raindog said:


> Doesn't necessarily mean they hate cyclists, it just means they're crap drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would put that down to driving on left hand side of the road as generally, French drivers have a more lenient attitude to cycles and motorbikes.
In the UK, there is definitively a divide attitude between car drivers and two wheelers.
The car is king overhere and anything that interferes with cars is frowned upon by motorists. It is a fact of life!


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Pointless holding tailgaters up IMHO, best just to let them go and have their own accident somewhere else away from you...
> 
> I remeber driving along the M6 through the lakes one time, there were three cars doing 70 in the outside lane, couldn't go anywhere due to traffic on the inside lanes. I was on the back of the train when this guy in an Audi A3 comes flying behind and starts aggressively tailgating me. So I let him go when I can, and he does the same to the car in front of me who eventually does the same. He then latches onto the back of the Volve V70 estate at the head of the queue. I think he was full of confidence now, having barged two cars out of the way, so he *really* gets close to this one.
> 
> Next thing, blue and red lights start flashing on the *unmarked police car* he is tailgating



Karma has a wicked sense of humour


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## Tinuts (24 Jul 2011)

briantrumpet said:


> I've also had a close pass from a German car this week - I wonder if it's because of their being left-hand drive, so it somehow alters their perception of how far from the cyclist they need to be, as they are not having to allow for a great lump of car between them and you.


Yes, I had exactly the same experience. I pointed this out to the driver and...............he did it again!


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## GrasB (24 Jul 2011)

briantrumpet said:


> I've also had a close pass from a German car this week - I wonder if it's because of their being left-hand drive, so it somehow alters their perception of how far from the cyclist they need to be, as they are not having to allow for a great lump of car between them and you.


I once gently tapped on the back window of a Dutch registered car, the driver very quickly pulled out to a more normal road position for the UK. At the next set of lights the driver had wound down his window & apologised for getting that close. After pulling away from the lights he was taking up a lane position typical for driving on the opposite side of the road.


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## rowan 46 (24 Jul 2011)

I have said on a couple of threads before now "no wonder other road users hate us" but I don't really subscribe to that view. Most of my negative interactions have been caused by driver inattention and a couple of occasions by my own where I have had to put my hand up to say smidsy very occasionally there has been unwarranted abuse and a couple of occasions of usually teenage passengers spitting or throwing the remains of their thick milk shake at me. more than 95% of my cycling is completely incident free. I just wanted to point out it's easy to feel they are out to get us but the fact is it isn't so with the very odd exception. I do think that many of the problems that cyclists get are the same as other road users get. road rage is as common to other drivers as it is to us. The fact is we live in a much less tolerant and polite society than we used to every mistake becomes a personal insult and every negative interaction is perceived as a prelude to an insurance claim or law suit. The result, fewer people apologise as an apology is an admission of guilt. The backdrop to all the increase in road rage is, Less space on the roads, insurance companies who take advantage of the fact that motor vehicles have to have insurance and rip off the driver, a less polite populace and so on. In conclusion drivers don't hate cyclists (most don't) They hate everyone but It's not personal It's just the way that most of us react when we perceive ourselves to be thwarted. A side effect of the society we have turned into. IMO


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## NormanD (24 Jul 2011)

Drivers don't hate us .. they just wish they had a cyclist lay down every time at the car door, so they could wipe their shoes before entering the car


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## rowan 46 (24 Jul 2011)

NormanD said:


> Drivers don't hate us .. they just wish they had a cyclist lay down every time at the car door, so they could wipe their shoes before entering the car



my point is that the ones who are like that. Are like that with other drivers as well


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## HLaB (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> It mentioned the 2012 London Olympics so not sure it is same episode?
> If he has been done for DUI then he should be sacked IMHO.



Yikes, I hope it is and the powers at be aren't considering it again!


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> Yikes, I hope it is and the powers at be aren't considering it again!


Will research it tomorrow. Too tired now


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