# walking through red lights



## Yellow Fang (30 May 2008)

Alright, cycling through red lights is illegal. What about getting off at the traffic light, walking your bike past it and getting back on? Is that illegal too? I expect somehow it is.


----------



## col (30 May 2008)

If you stay on the road,id guess it is,but getting onto the pavement isnt.


----------



## mr_cellophane (30 May 2008)

Highway Code
*Crossing the road*

79
Do not ride across equestrian crossings, as they are for horse riders only. Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. *Dismount and wheel your cycle across.*

80
Toucan crossings. These are light-controlled crossings which allow cyclists and pedestrians to share crossing space and cross at the same time. They are push-button operated. Pedestrians and cyclists will see the green signal together. Cyclists are permitted to ride across.

81
Cycle-only crossings. Cycle tracks on opposite sides of the road may be linked by signalled crossings. *You may ride across but you MUST NOT cross until the green cycle symbol is showing*.

*[Law TSRGD regs 33(2) & 36(1)]*

I take that to mean you can dismount and walk across at Traffic Lights but crossing at Cycle-only Crossings where the red bike is showing is RLJ and £30 fine.


----------



## domtyler (30 May 2008)

You can do it but overall your journey will be quicker if you just stay on the road.


----------



## Animal (30 May 2008)

The only exception is where the crossing also involves a tram crossing and a railway line and it's rush hour.

I regularly dismount, walk my bike across the road, hoik it over the footbrige, and zoom off up the road leaving the cagers fuming for a good 5 minutes while the train trundles along.


----------



## MERV (30 May 2008)

I just wait till it goes green.


----------



## Mr Celine (30 May 2008)

> Road Traffic Act 1988
> 
> 36 Drivers to comply with traffic signs
> 
> ...



If you are walking your bike on the road you are propelling a vehicle so you must comply with traffic signs, which include red traffic lights. 

So walk the bike onto the pavement before you pass the sign.


----------



## Disgruntled Goat (30 May 2008)

Yellow Fang said:


> Alright, cycling through red lights is illegal. What about getting off at the traffic light, walking your bike past it and getting back on? Is that illegal too? I expect somehow it is.




You could always wait for the green light. Crazy I know....


----------



## Milo (30 May 2008)

Its ok in the eyes of the law but its a bit unsporting.


----------



## MERV (30 May 2008)

Disgruntled Goat said:


> You could always wait for the green light. Crazy I know....




Stoppit!


----------



## Yellow Fang (30 May 2008)

Mr Celine said:


> If you are walking your bike on the road you are propelling a vehicle so you must comply with traffic signs, which include red traffic lights.
> 
> So walk the bike onto the pavement before you pass the sign.



What if you carry the bike across?


----------



## Yellow Fang (30 May 2008)

Also, does a bike count as a vehicle or a carriage in this context?


----------



## mr_cellophane (30 May 2008)

Yellow Fang said:


> Also, does a bike count as a vehicle or a carriage in this context?


I thought a bike (and even a pram) counted as a vehicle.

But the HC is very ambiguous



> *74*On the right. If you are turning right, check the traffic to ensure it is safe, then signal and move to the centre of the road. Wait until there is a safe gap in the oncoming traffic and give a final look before completing the turn. It may be safer to wait on the left until there is a safe gap or to dismount and push your cycle across the road.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (31 May 2008)

Mr Celine said:


> If you are walking your bike on the road you are propelling a vehicle so you must comply with traffic signs, which include red traffic lights.
> 
> So walk the bike onto the pavement before you pass the sign.



My ex's mum once got a ticking off from the police for wheeling (not riding) her bike the wrong way down a one way street. So I'd imagine they could also do you for pushing a bike through a red light.


----------



## gambatte (31 May 2008)

Mr Celine said:


> If you are walking your bike on the road you are propelling a vehicle so you must comply with traffic signs, which include red traffic lights.
> 
> So walk the bike onto the pavement before you pass the sign.



_Note: Generally (99.9%) I don't RLJ_

I believe that a bike's classed as a carriage and you aren't a 'driver' therefore that quote doesn't apply?

Once off the bike and pushing it, you're classified as a pedestrian. You're not propelling a vehicle/carriage. Considering that theres no offence for peds being on the road (?) I can't see any way within the letter of the law that a cyclist could be prosecuted for getting off their bike and pushing it over the stop line to subsequently remount it and continue??

Not something I'd advocate. Just a train of thought I wondered if someone could refute with the relevant road law references?


----------



## CopperBrompton (31 May 2008)

I believe you remain a cyclist when pushing a bike on the road, and only become a pedestrian if you carry it (ie. wheels off the road).


----------



## gambatte (31 May 2008)

Seen plenty of threads on here relating to going over crossings (therefore on the road) where the, generally accepted, stated legal situation was: 

‘on bike’ cyclist, 
‘pushing bike’ ped, 

with a bit of an undecided grey area when discussing using it like a scooter with one foot on a pedal.

I’m 95% sure there was a thread where the ‘carrying’ argument was shown to be a fallacy?


----------



## Keith Oates (31 May 2008)

I was always of the opinion that pushing the bike was the same as being a pedestrian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## col (31 May 2008)

If we had a motorbike,and got off to push through a red,would that be a ped?


----------



## Keith Oates (1 Jun 2008)

Don't know the answer to that one Col, probably not though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## col (1 Jun 2008)

I didnt think so either,but wondered as its similar to pushing whatever vehicle we use to get through reds without waiting isnt it?Thats why even us on bikes shouldnt do it?


----------



## MERV (1 Jun 2008)

Keith Oates said:


> I was always of the opinion that pushing the bike was the same as being a pedestrian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.


----------



## gambatte (1 Jun 2008)

Difficult to actually find something to back up either position. What I did find was the traffic management act 2004, 6,d
It mentions someone riding a cycle separately from those mechanically propelling a vehicle.


----------



## CopperBrompton (1 Jun 2008)

Could a car go through a red light if it was being pushed?


----------



## Jaded (1 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Could a car go through a red light if it was being pushed?



I'm sure it could. Whether it may or not is an entirely different matter.


----------



## summerdays (1 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I believe you remain a cyclist when pushing a bike on the road, and only become a pedestrian if you carry it (ie. wheels off the road).



There was some judgement in court that if pushing your bike across a road walking, you are a pedestrian, after all it isn't any different than pushing a buggy, but if you scoot on it then you are technically cycling. And you are allowed to push your bike the wrong way down a one-way road ... one of the advantages over cars.


----------



## jonesy (1 Jun 2008)

summerdays said:


> There was some judgement in court that if pushing your bike across a road walking, you are a pedestrian, after all it isn't any different than pushing a buggy, but if you scoot on it then you are technically cycling. And you are allowed to push your bike the wrong way down a one-way road ... one of the advantages over cars.



Indeed, and for the police to say otherwise would be extremely silly. One-way systems are there to control the direction of travel of vehicles, not people.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (1 Jun 2008)

Rhythm Thief said:


> My ex's mum once got a ticking off from the police for wheeling (not riding) her bike the wrong way down a one way street. So I'd imagine they could also do you for pushing a bike through a red light.



She must have just been spotted by a particularly stupid copper then. Which was always my opinion anyway.


----------



## CopperBrompton (1 Jun 2008)

There have been conflicting rulings, I believe. There was a case back in the 70s where it was ruled that traffic did not have to accord precedence to a cyclist pushing a bike across a zebra crossing because the cyclist was not a pedestrian while the wheels were in contact with the road.

Ben


----------



## hackbike 6 (1 Jun 2008)

That's mad.Bit like the LED rule when LED's were illegal but a copper never generally stopped you for using them anyway.


----------



## BentMikey (2 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> There have been conflicting rulings, I believe. There was a case back in the 70s where it was ruled that traffic did not have to accord precedence to a cyclist pushing a bike across a zebra crossing because the cyclist was not a pedestrian while the wheels were in contact with the road.
> 
> Ben




That is: WRONG.

The finding was the other way around.


----------



## CopperBrompton (2 Jun 2008)

You appear to have missed the opening sentence in the text you quoted: *There have been conflicting rulings, I believe*.

The ruling I refer to was definitely made, and I *believe* there has also been a contradictory ruling.

Ben


----------



## Kirst (8 Jun 2008)

domtyler said:


> You can do it but overall your journey will be quicker if you just stay on the road.



Not necessarily. There are crossroads near me which have a regular traffic light pattern - north/south traffic goes, east/west traffic goes, all traffic stops while pedestrians have the green man for all directions. If you're east/west traffic and you get to the lights just as they change to red for you, it's quicker to get off and walk across the junction at the green man and then set off again than it is to wait through the green man then the north/south traffic and then your green light.


----------



## HJ (8 Jun 2008)

Kirst said:


> Not necessarily. There are crossroads near me which have a regular traffic light pattern - north/south traffic goes, east/west traffic goes, all traffic stops while pedestrians have the green man for all directions. If you're east/west traffic and you get to the lights just as they change to red for you, it's quicker to get off and walk across the junction at the green man and then set off again than it is to wait through the green man then the north/south traffic and then your green light.



Which cross roads did you having in mind Kirst??


----------



## Kirst (8 Jun 2008)

They're all a bit grumpy round here.

If I've come along Gilmore Place from the canal and am waiting at a red light to turn right as if going up to Bruntsfield, it's loads quicker to get off and walk across in front of the King's, than wait for the pedestrians to cross, then the north/south to go before the lights finally change in my favour. Same with South Clerk Street/East & West Preston Street, and South Clerk Street/Bernard Terrace/Hope Park Terrace. If you get to the lights just as they go red, get off and walk over.


----------



## Cab (9 Jun 2008)

Regardless of the legality of this... Has anyone else noticed that dismounting, pushing over a ped crossing or around a corner etc. before remounting really p****s off a lot of motorists? I mean, have you spotted that it really bothers them, to a quite irrational degree?


----------



## CopperBrompton (9 Jun 2008)

I can't say I have. 

I could imagine it might if they'd just overtaken you after waiting a while on a narrow road, and are then going to have to wait for another suitable opportunity, but otherwise can't see why anyone would care in the slightest.

Ben


----------



## Cab (9 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I can't say I have.
> 
> I could imagine it might if they'd just overtaken you after waiting a while on a narrow road, and are then going to have to wait for another suitable opportunity, but otherwise can't see why anyone would care in the slightest.



I didn't say that this response was rational 

In my experience there is a small subset of motorists who find this behaviour unsporting, and are quite willing to make complete arses out of themselves over it.


----------



## CopperBrompton (9 Jun 2008)

What sort of things do they do? I'm intrigued!


----------



## Cab (9 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> What sort of things do they do? I'm intrigued!



I've occasionally dismounted and pushed the bike around a corner and back on to the road at one junction I often use, because the lights take so long to cycle round (and first its traffic coming the other way, then the main road way, then the pedestrians... too slow!). It is legal to dismount, push along the pavement a few feet, and remount on the road.

I've had the car driver in front of me yell abuse for that, I've had cars on the main road (who I am in no way inconveniencent, as I'm about to remount in a cycle lane!) honk their horns and flash lights at me. 

Doesn't seem in the least bit rational to me.


----------



## Yellow Fang (9 Jun 2008)

User said:


> Yes. The Road Traffic Act 1988 uses 'vehicle' to cover all modes of transport or conveyance that are driven or propelled on the road (but not prams!) Where sections relate solely to motor vehicles, then the phrases 'motor vehicle' or 'driven' will be used (except in one section where the heading - which is not part of definitive text - refers to 'drivers' when it means both driver and cyclists).



What are wheelchairs defined as? Or those electric OAP movers?


----------



## Cycling Naturalist (10 Jun 2008)

User said:


> This means that someone who does not hold a driving license can have points added in the anticipation that (s)he will obtain a license in future. Points can also be added to a license held, even if the person wasn't driving a motor vehicle when the offence was committed.



This was introduced because many motoring offenders do not have a driving licence.


----------



## CopperBrompton (10 Jun 2008)

Creating the absurdity of banning someone from driving, catching them doing so while they have no licence, and ordering that they be banned again when the existing ban expires. If someone is going to drive while banned, then banning them again seems a trifle ... optimistic.


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (10 Jun 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Creating the absurdity of banning someone from driving, catching them doing so while they have no licence, and ordering that they be banned again when the existing ban expires. If someone is going to drive while banned, then banning them again seems a trifle ... optimistic. *f*cking pointless*


Amended for accuracy.


----------



## HJ (10 Jun 2008)

Kirst said:


> They're all a bit grumpy round here.
> 
> If I've come along Gilmore Place from the canal and am waiting at a red light to turn right as if going up to Bruntsfield, it's loads quicker to get off and walk across in front of the King's, than wait for the pedestrians to cross, then the north/south to go before the lights finally change in my favour. Same with South Clerk Street/East & West Preston Street, and South Clerk Street/Bernard Terrace/Hope Park Terrace. If you get to the lights just as they go red, get off and walk over.



I can see the advantage at the Kings lights, especially as it avoids the hassle with making a right turn there, with the other two I wouldn't personally bother but then that's just me...




Cab said:


> Regardless of the legality of this... Has anyone else noticed that dismounting, pushing over a ped crossing or around a corner etc. before remounting really p****s off a lot of motorists? I mean, have you spotted that it really bothers them, to a quite irrational degree?



Aye, I've noticed that, so I sometimes do it if they have been messing me about on the approach to the junction. Especially where they have deliberately tried to stop me getting to the junction ahead of them. The great thing about it is you can often lose them in the traffic and there is nothing they can do about it...


----------

