# Ride London Accident



## Smokin Joe (31 Jul 2016)

Wonder what happened there? looks serious -

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-surrey-london-course-diverted-pyrford-ripley


----------



## mark st1 (31 Jul 2016)

Oh dear hope all are well could be a long day for those stuck in that lot.


----------



## gavgav (31 Jul 2016)




----------



## jefmcg (31 Jul 2016)

At 2 serious accidents, so far 

The one the Guardian doesn't know location was Kingston Bridge


----------



## mark st1 (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Yesterday, as I was riding amongst the Freecycle along The Mall to get to the Brompton World Championships, I saw an energy gel wrapper on the floor. Why would anyone need to use gels to ride around London?



Sprinting between red lights must carry a large amount of kudos in the big smoke.


----------



## Brandane (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> I feel very ambivalent about events like this one. They don't seem to me to be a celebration of cycling so much as a chance for TDF wannabees to experience riding in a make-believe peleton, but without the skills. You start out with little Sky Rides and the Freecycle, and the 100 is marketed as something to aspire to, like joining the big boys - or "serious cyclists" as some would have it. The ride gets packed out, people get impatient, and accidents happen, which just feeds the widespread idea that cycling is dangerous.


Yep; sounds exactly like what "Pedal for Scotland" has become over the years. Started off as a fun ride from Glasgow to Edinburgh and has become exactly as you describe. As a past participant on 3 occasions, I now avoid it like the plague.
Hope the riders involved in today's incidents make a full recovery.

Edited for spellink mistook.


----------



## outlash (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> I feel very ambivalent about events like this one. They don't seem to me to be a celebration of cycling so much as a chance for TDF wannabees to experience riding in a make-believe peleton, but without the skills. You start out with little Sky Rides and the Freecycle, and the 100 is marketed as something to aspire to, like joining the big boys - or "serious cyclists" as some would have it. The ride gets packed out, people get impatient, and accidents happen, which just feeds the widespread idea that cycling is dangerous.



This. Fact is, faux-racers see sportives like this as racing and a lot of the cycling media feed this illusion. Anyone can ride fast, it's just fitness but to ride fast properly takes skill. Given the regular amount of accidents in mass participation events like these, it's a skill a fair few people lack. I'm curious to know how many of these people actually stick a number on their back and race on other weekends. 
A while back, a mate sent me a link to someone's Strava profile page where they proudly stated on their bio that they came first on an Audax. I kid you not.


----------



## Smokin Joe (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> I feel very ambivalent about events like this one. They don't seem to me to be a celebration of cycling so much as a chance for TDF wannabees to experience riding in a make-believe peleton, but without the skills. You start out with little Sky Rides and the Freecycle, and the 100 is marketed as something to aspire to, like joining the big boys - or "serious cyclists" as some would have it. The ride gets packed out, people get impatient, and accidents happen, which just feeds the widespread idea that cycling is dangerous.


I agree with you on this. I used to ride sportives before the cycling boom took off and they were enjoyable events, experienced cyclists mostly with a club or racing back ground who knew how to ride safely in a group and follow a wheel. The last one I rode a few years back was an embarrassment, riders scattered all over the road with no consideration for other riders or vehicles. You'd pass people on a climb and fifteen minutes later on the descent they'd come screaming by on your nearside at warp speed with no word of warning. It isn't surprising there are accidents.


----------



## PK99 (31 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I agree with you on this. I used to ride sportives before the cycling boom took off and they were enjoyable events, experienced cyclists mostly with a club or racing back ground who knew how to ride safely in a group and follow a wheel. The last one I rode a few years back was an embarrassment, riders scattered all over the road with no consideration for other riders or vehicles. You'd pass people on a climb and fifteen minutes later on the descent they'd come screaming by on your nearside at warp speed with no word of warning. It isn't surprising there are accidents.



I was coming down Box Hill the other weekend and was forced hard on the left side of the road and to almost stop by the 5 or 6 abreast sportive riders on the way up... slow plodders on the inside and various faster riders overtaking and being overtaken. It was chaos and fecking dangerous. I was on my bike Btw not in a car and there was not enough space to ride down safely at anything more than a crawl.


----------



## DaveReading (31 Jul 2016)

My experience last year was that any bit of road that wasn't straight and level brought out the worst in some riders. On downhills you got idiots forcing their way past on the inside, on uphills it wàs people pushing their bikes in the middle of the road, and it was amazing how many apparently couldn't hold a line through a corner.

I'm relieved I didn't get in this year.


----------



## swansonj (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> There's a very recognisable type. It's noticeable to me that most of the photos I have seen of today's event, in whatever context, seem to show nothing but a sea of lycra-clad and helmeted men, all looking very serious and taking themselves very seriously indeed. Even the pictures that women friends have put up of themselves have a backdrop of that very same sea.


I just guessed to my wife that the male:female ratio was 5:1. She didn't believe me. So we counted the next fifty or so riders ... Maybe only 4:1 in that stretch.


----------



## outlash (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> There's a very recognisable type. It's noticeable to me that most of the photos I have seen of today's event, in whatever context, seem to show nothing but a sea of lycra-clad and helmeted men, all looking very serious and taking themselves very seriously indeed. Even the pictures that women friends have put up of themselves have a backdrop of that very same sea.



It's quite possibly the highlight of their cycling calendar. I equate Ride London to the London Marathon. It's great for charities and if you like being part of a big event, there's probably not much better, but for most people who ride or run regularly, it's a bit 'meh'.


----------



## Dogtrousers (31 Jul 2016)

I partially agree. When I did Velo Wales I saw the aftermath of two crashes, both due to inappropriate speed. I saw some exceptionally fast descending and hoped for their sakes that they had skills to match. I also saw fast groups that I would not be comfortable in. I just stayed left and rode at my chosen pace. No one close-passed me.

But I only partially agree because the vast majority of the ride was good fun. Not super fast riding, plenty of chat and humour, people encouraging each other on the hills and when tiredness kicked in, generally a good day out.



DaveReading said:


> it was amazing how many apparently couldn't hold a line through a corner.


I don't think I can do that. I don't know what it means.


----------



## Nebulous (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> The ride gets packed out, people get impatient, and accidents happen, which just feeds the widespread idea that cycling is dangerous.



It is dangerous, but then so are many other things. What differs with cycling is the response, based on the idea that cycling is entirely voluntary and an unnecessary risk in the age of the motor car. 

If a car mounts the pavement and kills a pedestrian it doesn't provoke a huge argument about what the pedestrian was wearing and feed into a campaign for pedestrians to wear helmets. Some of the pedestrians friends don't give up walking.


----------



## DaveReading (31 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't think I can do that. I don't know what it means.



I meant that if you are approaching a corner with other riders on either side of you, you leave room for them by not drifting unpredictably across their path. Some sportive riders don't seem to have grasped that concept.


----------



## snorri (31 Jul 2016)

hoopdriver said:


> A man sitting on a bench gazing out to sea is - actuarily speaking - at even less risk still.


Inactivity? 
It's a killer.


----------



## srw (31 Jul 2016)

swansonj said:


> I just guessed to my wife that the male:female ratio was 5:1. She didn't believe me. So we counted the next fifty or so riders ... Maybe only 4:1 in that stretch.


In my near vicinity both times I've done it the ratio has been 1:1...

The RideLondon 100 is basically three rides in one. There's a ride for experienced and fast cyclists who are testing themselves against a time. There's a ride for inexperienced men (and the odd woman) in lycra who'd love to race, and are over-optimistic about their own ability to handle a bike, and who take too many risks. And there's a long ride for people, more evenly mixed between men and women, who just want to finish, and who are there for the atmosphere or to raise money for charity. Some of them are very experienced but not fast, some of them are very inexperienced. Any problems happen when the second group clash with the first or the third groups. I'd guess that at 14:17 the third group would be beginning to predominate, especially after two hold-ups.


----------



## swansonj (31 Jul 2016)

srw said:


> ...I'd guess that at 14:17 the third group would be beginning to predominate, especially after two hold-ups.


The hold ups meant everything was more mixed up this year. A lot of fitter and fresher looking riders coming through later, presumably earlier starters catching up after the delays.


----------



## srw (31 Jul 2016)

Each year in this ride there have been a couple of nasty incidents. And, rightly, the emergency services take an injury sustained on a bike seriously - and when you try and pack 27,000 riders into narrow roads, with a tough time limit because of a pro race happening later, any blockage to the flow will look like very serious disruption.

Actuarially speaking (it helps if you spell it right), 2.7 million rider miles on a tough course will result in some injuries. Just like 2.7 million driver miles on a motorway.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> I feel very ambivalent about events like this one. They don't seem to me to be a celebration of cycling so much as a chance for TDF wannabees to experience riding in a make-believe peleton, but without the skills. You start out with little Sky Rides and the Freecycle, and the 100 is marketed as something to aspire to, like joining the big boys - or "serious cyclists" as some would have it. The ride gets packed out, people get impatient, and accidents happen, which just feeds the widespread idea that cycling is dangerous.


I feel no ambivalence. I loathe them.


----------



## benb (31 Jul 2016)

Yeah, there were some people cycling in a decidedly nobbish manner.

Particular shout out to the idiot with TT bars (which are specifically prohibited BTW) who came past me close enough to brush my elbow without a single "on your right"

Having said that, it was only a small minority who were behaving like that. Most people were completely fine.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Oh it does and, in my category of old bloke on ludicrously heavy Dutch bike, I am possibly a champion in my own mind.


I've seen a hundred thousand Danish women who would whip your ass, traffic lights wise. It would be over a million if the rest would just change gear when they stop.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Jul 2016)

benb said:


> Yeah, there were some people cycling in a decidedly nobbish manner.
> 
> Particular shout out to the idiot with TT bars (which are specifically prohibited BTW) who came past me close enough to brush my elbow without a single "on your right"
> 
> Having said that, it was only a small minority who were behaving like that. Most people were completely fine.


TT bars on a group ride = utter twit.


----------



## srw (31 Jul 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I feel no ambivalence. I loathe them.


I feel no ambivalence either. Despite the handful of nobbers, the attempt to pack too many riders into too short a time, and the over-engineered rules, I love them. There is something magical about riding on closed roads.


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Jul 2016)

srw said:


> I feel no ambivalence either. Despite the handful of nobbers, the attempt to pack too many riders into too short a time, and the over-engineered rules, I love them. There is something magical about riding on closed roads.


You lost me at despite. There is no despite. And even the roads of West Sussex are as good as closed at 05:00 on a Sunday.

(or the occasional driver around at that time represents a lesser impediment to my enjoyment than your extensive list of down sides... )


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Jul 2016)

Not my idea of fun, watching the Pro's barrel down some of those hills would fill me fear in a bunch of mixed ability riders fired up on adrenalin. As above though the numbers of miles covered the number of riders and different types and styles of riders it is amazing that not more happens. Kudos to those who took part. The only real appeal is closed roads for me.


----------



## philk56 (31 Jul 2016)

Just putting my tin hat on as I contribute to this thread. It is very easy to generalise about these rides and sound very superior. All of the people I spoke to, and there were many while we were shuffling along behind the accident, appeared to be genuinely there for experience, either in the cause of raising money for charity or to enjoy the ride with a multitude of cyclists on closed roads. Of course there are always going to be some idiots on rides like this, as there are plenty of idiot cyclists who I see every day riding the streets of London. My main concern about today's event was that there were too many riders, and this was made worse when we all joined up again after the diversion around Leith Hill. Adding the extra riders on the start of the course this year with the introduction of the 46 mile route made for very crowded roads at times. Having said that I didn't see any instances of dangerous riding.


----------



## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2016)

Has anyone got anything to say about the crash this thread is about?


----------



## swansonj (31 Jul 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I feel no ambivalence. I loathe them.





srw said:


> I feel no ambivalence either. Despite the handful of nobbers, the attempt to pack too many riders into too short a time, and the over-engineered rules, I love them. There is something magical about riding on closed roads.


I feel about "them" something of what I feel about Sustrans cycle paths. It's good the see people out on bikes enjoying themselves. It's good to see people doing so in ways they might not otherwise do or taking on challenges they might not otherwise. Anything that raises the profile of cycling or normalises it has got to be at least partly a Good Thing. All that is good and I'm not churlish enough to deny it. 

But neither promotes the cycling experience as I value it. Cycling is about freedom. It's about spontaneity. It's about self sufficiency. It's about exploring. It's about connecting, with the land and the landscape. It's about being normal, as normal as walking, wearing the same clothes, using and sharing the same collective networks developed by generations for society to do just that. It's about stepping out of my front door, getting on a bike, and just cycling. And it's not about sport. 

Neither Sustrans nor the Prudential exactly promote cycling as I love it, except as a stepping stone. Which is why I get sad when they become the mainstream of cycling, or at least of the public presentation of cycling. 

(And I haven't even started on the ethics of sponsorship  )


----------



## GrumpyGregry (31 Jul 2016)

swansonj said:


> I feel about "them" something of what I feel about Sustrans cycle paths. It's good the see people out on bikes enjoying themselves. It's good to see people doing so in ways they might not otherwise do or taking on challenges they might not otherwise. Anything that raises the profile of cycling or normalises it has got to be at least partly a Good Thing. All that is good and I'm not churlish enough to deny it.
> 
> But neither promotes the cycling experience as I value it. Cycling is about freedom. It's about spontaneity. It's about self sufficiency. It's about exploring. It's about connecting, with the land and the landscape. It's about being normal, as normal as walking, wearing the same clothes, using and sharing the same collective networks developed by generations for society to do just that. It's about stepping out of my front door, getting on a bike, and just cycling. And it's not about sport.
> 
> ...


Sportives don't normalise the sort of cycling that needs to be normalised. Neither do sustrans leisure routes.

Sorry, but that is just how it is. Between cycling as sport and cycling as a family leisure activity is where the sweet spot of cycling as normal is. Slap bang.


----------



## screenman (31 Jul 2016)

doog said:


> Cant disagree with that. Add panniers, a tent and some decent weather and I've found cycling heaven...slightly better than the sweet spot in my case or hell for others.
> 
> I've never done an organised event, I've never actually cycled anywhere of note with anyone...hence I didn't really feel qualified to post on the thread. Its my idea of Benidorm on a bike.



My idea of cycling hell, the thought of touring by bike with a tent, no thanks. Each to their own of course.


----------



## Scoosh (31 Jul 2016)

*MOD NOTE:*
A substantial number of posts have been Deleted, being OT, arguing and/ or being rude; NOT what this thread is about.

Keep to the topic - the Accident on the Ride London event and the thread can continue.

Thank you.


----------



## doog (31 Jul 2016)

screenman said:


> My idea of cycling hell, the thought of touring by bike with a tent, no thanks. Each to their own of course.



haha - it can be that at times...not sure where my post went however.


----------



## RedRider (31 Jul 2016)

swansonj said:


> I feel about "them" something of what I feel about Sustrans cycle paths. It's good the see people out on bikes enjoying themselves. It's good to see people doing so in ways they might not otherwise do or taking on challenges they might not otherwise. Anything that raises the profile of cycling or normalises it has got to be at least partly a Good Thing. All that is good and I'm not churlish enough to deny it.
> 
> But neither promotes the cycling experience as I value it. Cycling is about freedom. It's about spontaneity. It's about self sufficiency. It's about exploring. It's about connecting, with the land and the landscape. It's about being normal, as normal as walking, wearing the same clothes, using and sharing the same collective networks developed by generations for society to do just that. It's about stepping out of my front door, getting on a bike, and just cycling. And it's not about sport.
> 
> ...


This is close to how the better part of me feels about it.
The 'Benidorm on bikes' description sits uneasily close as well. Uneasily because it's a snobbish thing to say and I recognise in it a poor outlook. There's enthusiasm around sportives for good or bad and as tempting as it is to want everyone to share my/our idea of a cycling culture imo it's slack to generalise about people taking part in these mass events.
In terms of the accidents today perhaps they weren't caused by ignorant cycling or perhaps they were.
In any case I'm saying a defiant 'no' to loathing.


----------



## Milkfloat (31 Jul 2016)

The message on the course from the marshals was that the accident at mile 38 was a heart attack and a group of people crashing into the victim. I don't know if that was true, but certainly the ''nobbers' as described above near me, were full of compassion and humor about the whole situation, I saw a wide range of cyclists from a guy on fixed, lots of Bromptoms, mountain bikes, the Boris bike a couple of interlopers with tri bars and other banned bars. I saw a few bits of sketchy riding, including a crash. However, most of all I saw thousands of people enjoying their cycling and thousands of people supporting them. I think those critising the event and the choices made by this raising millions of pounds should grow up. I don't critising your choice of sandles and socks plus you pootling at 5mph so I don't see why you should be so high and mighty about others.


----------



## jonny jeez (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> There's a very recognisable type. It's noticeable to me that most of the photos I have seen of today's event, in whatever context, seem to show nothing but a sea of lycra-clad and helmeted men, all looking very serious and taking themselves very seriously indeed. Even the pictures that women friends have put up of themselves have a backdrop of that very same sea.


I agree about your first comment, in so much as it promotes cycling as "dangerous" but you need to be there to experience the tandem riders, the Brompton peletons, clubs, groups of friends, strangers meeting and of course... the Boris Bikers all mixing it up to make it a real festival. I didn't see too many head down Men, I saw a lot of Women who were spinning past riders and going very fast, up and down the hills.

Helmets are mandatory by the way.


----------



## jonny jeez (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> Apparently, according to one of our own resident altruistic, team-player, selfless domestique-material MAMILs, today was: 'A lovely ride, spoiled (a bit) by some prat, ignoring the shouts from the Marshalls and wrapping himself round a tree, because he couldn't grasp the concept of "slow down there's a nasty corner ahead".'


I don't think ride 100 is for you.


----------



## jonny jeez (31 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Has anyone got anything to say about the crash this thread is about?


I went past the incident after what I assume must have been a few minutes of it happening. It was on a very short, dark, steep decent that had hay bails to the outer edge, it looked like a rider had collided with either the bails or had gone over them and hit something else. the delays were minimal at the time, hence the reason I think it had just happened. As I rode past the fallen rider the Medics were working on him/her and were accompanied by a number of clearly emotional riders. I heard a medic say the words "Tachycardic" as I went by, the helicopter was above. the rider was on their back and motionless

I looked like a collision to me


----------



## jonny jeez (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> Well it was the nasty selfish attitude of the person who posted that comment that struck me most.
> 
> But for the Ride 100, you are absolutely right, it sounds ghastly. One of the clubs I belong to decided to do a 100-mile ride. They planned an out and back route with a few wiggles on the way back to ring the changes and tea, lunch, and more tea stops, and set out early one morning. No training, no helmet bollocks, just a great day out, all day riding our bikes. And it didn't cost anything to take part, thanks very much .


I understand but as you do seem to be finding all the really negative aspects of the ride, so I agree that its not for you. I also do agree that it is treated by many as a race (personal or otherwise) and this is mostly due to the fact that its a closed ride, so personal bests are most likely to be achieved on a closed road. However, what I saw was more of an enjoyment of the safe, closed roads with an eclectic mix of participants.

The food stops were crap though, how many gel bars can a man eat!...where was the cake?!


----------



## screenman (31 Jul 2016)

User13710 said:


> OK. I'm not sure about the closed roads thing though, sadly. The Isle of Wight Randonnee, which isn't run on closed roads and, as is clear from the name, isn't even a sportive, has gone the same way. I rode it a couple of times and enjoyed it some years ago when it was just a merry ride but now it's horrible (last year one 'team' had a support car!) and sadly ruined.



Maybe you should have added, for me, on the end. It seems to be growing so others may see it different.


----------



## jonny jeez (31 Jul 2016)

User said:


> I saw a rider stop in Dorking to take on a sandwich that his support team produced from a Tupperware.


I Saw a few riders stopping for "Care packages" from supporters, I assumed it was a dietary thing but now think its just an experience thing. I wish I'd stopped in Arbinger Hammer for the village Barbecue that was laid on, it looked and smelt excellent, even at 9.00


----------



## Milkfloat (31 Jul 2016)

The was a nice cake stall at the Leatherhead hub, it took all of my powers of restraint as all I needed was a wee.


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Jul 2016)

When I rode past the scene of the accident police where taking photographs of the area, and what looked like a torn and blood soaked jersey lying on the ground. 

It's very sad, I hope the person is ok.


----------



## Flying Dodo (31 Jul 2016)

I used to do sportives, but did my last one at 6 or 7 years ago. I stopped for a number of reasons. I could see more and more people entering them who just didn't have the road skills for cycling - either solo or in a group; the only way I would get a faster time would be to take more risks which then makes me a worse rider; and also I realised it just wasn't worth spending £40+ just to have a bike ride!

Similarly, I won't do the DunRun any more - it's just not enjoyable with large numbers. I now spend most of my weekends running Sustrans rides encouraging new cyclists to come on short, social rides, to basically just get people cycling. Which is much more rewarding than racing on a sportive to get a medal or a certificate.

With any sort of event, especially Ride London with tens of thousands taking part, as already stated, you will get incidents happening. A closed roads event for a long ride like this out into the Surrey Hills really doesn't do cycling any favours. What we want to be doing is encouraging people to think of cycling as a normal everyday activity that they don't need to wear special clothes or a helmet for. That's why the events which close the centre of London only would be far better, and so allowing people to explore the city on 2 wheels without motorised vehicles getting in the way.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I saw a rider stop in Dorking to take on a sandwich that his support team produced from a Tupperware.


And I gather that some riders even got flapjack and cups of tea from evil support teams which had previously been planted on the route...

I half get the negativity, but it is beginning to feel like churlishness. Cycling is a lot of things, and my observation is that they all bleed into each other.

I think of a runner who did a Ride London, discovered she loved cycling as well as running and came on a holiday with a bunch of mad-keen cyclists.

I think of a demon time triallist whose honeymoon was spent bike touring and who is now on an unsupported race across a continent.

And I think of a commuting rider who is grateful to Sustrans for promoting riding and signposting possible rides, and who also dreams of bigger things.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

Flying Dodo said:


> With any sort of event, especially Ride London with tens of thousands taking part, as already stated, you will get incidents happening. A closed roads event for a long ride like this out into the Surrey Hills really doesn't do cycling any favours. What we want to be doing is encouraging people to think of cycling as a normal everyday activity that they don't need to wear special clothes or a helmet for. That's why the events which close the centre of London only would be far better, and so allowing people to explore the city on 2 wheels without motorised vehicles getting in the way.



I'd love to see the statistics. I think you'd be surprised, particularly in London, how many of the Sportive brigade are also utility cyclists. Rude London is part of the normalisation package.


----------



## swansonj (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> And I gather that some riders even got flapjack and cups of tea from evil support teams which had previously been planted on the route....



My offers of flapjack and cups of tea to friends on the ride was in part my small symbolic gesture to subvert the hyper-organised Lycra-and-gels culture of the ride; my small asssertion of the traditional touring (and Fridays) virtues of stopping at the side of the road for a cup of tea and home-made flapjack made with twice as much golden syrup as the recipe specifies....


----------



## vickster (1 Aug 2016)

I was marshalling a v busy crossing in Kingston. Most people were happy to watch the cyclists while waiting. A few were pretty angry and abusive, some just because of the inconvenience. But a number of these people were seemingly anti cyclist full stop, one whining at length about us getting in the way of cars (he did shut up a bit when I said how much money would be raised for charity and that his day to day delays on the roads are caused by motor traffic not cyclists).

There was also one very unpleasant character who stated all of the riders should be mown down with a machine gun and he certainly wasn't kidding!

There were also a few grumbles from riders who were forced to stop for a couple of minutes but I think many were happy to have an excuse for a breather 

I was also astonished by the number of people who don't keep a hold of their children when crossing in a large throng of people!!


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Wonder what happened there? looks serious -
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-surrey-london-course-diverted-pyrford-ripley









It happened right in front of that church on the hill, about a minute before we got there. It was caused by a bunch of knobbers 'chain ganging'. The Marshalls shouted at them to slow down, and if you look carefully, you can see the bright pink "caution" sign, on the left, by the start of the corner, but one of them clipped the kerb, and wrapped himself around a tree. He broke his neck.


----------



## EltonFrog (1 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> I was marshalling a v busy crossing in Kingston. Most people were happy to watch the cyclists while waiting. A few were pretty angry and abusive, some just because of the inconvenience. But a number of these people were seemingly anti cyclist full stop, one whining at length about us getting in the way of cars (he did shut up a bit when I said how much money would be raised for charity and that his day to day delays on the roads are caused by motor traffic not cyclists).
> 
> There was also one very unpleasant character who stated all of the riders should be mown down with a machine gun and he certainly wasn't kidding!
> 
> ...



I thought the marshals did a brilliant job throughout the day, and in Kingston the support from crowds was immense, and made me feel a bit emotional, ( I think I had something in my eye) . 

Riding through Kingston market I heard some old boy say, 'A load of bleeding thugs, the of 'em' . Made a couple of us laugh.


----------



## benb (1 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> I was marshalling a v busy crossing in Kingston. Most people were happy to watch the cyclists while waiting. A few were pretty angry and abusive, some just because of the inconvenience. But a number of these people were seemingly anti cyclist full stop, one whining at length about us getting in the way of cars (he did shut up a bit when I said how much money would be raised for charity and that his day to day delays on the roads are caused by motor traffic not cyclists).
> 
> There was also one very unpleasant character who stated all of the riders should be mown down with a machine gun and he certainly wasn't kidding!
> 
> ...



The marshals were all fantastic, so well done you for being part of that.
We had a motorcycle escort through Kingston to keep us at a slower speed so they could let a throng of pedestrians cross. That was fun.


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I think of a demon time triallist whose honeymoon was spent bike touring and who is now on an *unsupported race *across a continent


That's reads like code for "divorce"


----------



## rugby bloke (1 Aug 2016)

CarlP said:


> I thought the marshals did a brilliant job throughout the day, and in Kingston the support from crowds was immense, and made me feel a bit emotional, ( I think I had something in my eye) .



The support going through Kingston on the return leg was fantastic and just what I need to give me a lift for the final push. It was amazing to see so many people out supporting the ride.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

It seems to have been a crashier edition than recent years  but I think it's being made to sound worse by the confused reporting of some incidents (like some say the first crash listed below was at Pyrford, others say at Ripley) so let's try to summarise it. I'll come back and edit this later:

*SUMMARY*

 https://www.prudentialridelondon.co.uk/news-media/latest-news/official-statement/ says 33 riders taken to hospital, 3 serious, 1 death. Update: 2 serious, 2 deaths.
 Fatal incident on Kingston Bridge, reported by @jefmcg https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4391502/ - also http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ridelondon-tragedy-cancer-survivor-robin-11688265
 Fatal crash near Pyrford, air ambulances, diversion, https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-surrey-london-course-diverted-pyrford-ripley and rider still serious according to http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...tion-after-ridelondon-surrey-100-crash-269308 and then died, according to https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4432387
 Crash in Thames Ditton, air ambulance, also mentioned by The Guardian above
 Serious crash in Walton Church Street, ambulance, http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ridelondon-crash-walton-leaves-injured-11686004
 Crash near bottom of Leith Hill descent, rider unconscious, reported below by @User482 at https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4393163
 Serious crash in Wotton - might be same as previous - might be Glen Caswell:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21FPdD3821k
 Crash in East Clandon, ambulance, http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ridelondon-accident-east-clandon-leads-11686703
 Crash on entry to Kingston, marshals narrowing road, might be second crash mentioned by @jefmcg
 Crash in Walton Oatlands Drive, @Milkfloat saw in https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4392273

 Minor crash on Piccadilly (I think), no-one hurt AFAIK but honourable mention for being the earliest one I've seen reported 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hd7faw59uQ


Any more?

I'm sure there were far more injury crashes among the motorists I saw behaving like nobbers on the other open roads (I certainly saw enough ambulances haring around) but that's normal so doesn't make the news.

And finally, Katie Hopkins is a complete crash wreck in so many ways and announced on air that the RideLondon road closures were going to be dwarfed by the M25 closing for a running event: http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/ridelondon-radio-rant-leads-katie-11686497


----------



## Simontm (1 Aug 2016)

User13710 said:


> There's a very recognisable type. It's noticeable to me that most of the photos I have seen of today's event, in whatever context, seem to show nothing but a sea of lycra-clad and helmeted men, all looking very serious and taking themselves very seriously indeed. Even the pictures that women friends have put up of themselves have a backdrop of that very same sea.


This is from last year and my family call it 'The Ambridge Pic'.
As my wife says: "Everyone else is hard at work pushing their way up Box and you look like you're on a country jaunt whistling the tune to The Archers" 
Truth is Box is down the road from me and I always just select a nice gear and pedal - sod Strava


----------



## hopless500 (1 Aug 2016)

I've seen a report that a rider died but no details so far.


----------



## Milkfloat (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Big crash in Walton Church Street, ambulance, http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ridelondon-crash-walton-leaves-injured-11686004 - is this the same one @Milkfloat saw in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/ridelondon-surrey-100-2016-anyone.185190/post-4392273 ?




The crash I saw happen was just down the road, but later on. The rider ploughed straight into the pedestrian refuge here. I was standing on the pavement talking to some relatives of the person I was riding with. We had just stopped to use their toilet and have a chat. So one more to add to the list.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

hopless500 said:


> I've seen a report that a rider died but no details so far.


That was the cardiac arrest on Kingston Bridge. They were covering him with a blanket, as I rode past.


----------



## hopless500 (1 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> That was the cardiac arrest on Kingston Bridge. They were covering him with a blanket, as I rode past.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> The crash I saw happen was just down the road, but later on. The rider ploughed straight into the pedestrian refuge here. I was standing on the pavement talking to some relatives of the person I was riding with. We had just stopped to use their toilet and have a chat. So one more to add to the list.


I've liked it for the information, not because I like the crash


----------



## rb58 (1 Aug 2016)

I was reflecting earlier this morning on all of this. First off, I need to say that I'm not a fan of sportives and this is the only one I've done in recent years. Apart from anything else, there's no cake [except this time there was - thanks @swansonj ]. However, I've enjoyed the ride on both occasions I've done it and I do believe what you get out of it will depend on your attitude and approach. Part of the problem is that it's trying to be all things to all people. A bit like the London marathon, but with a key difference - with the marathon the pros, semi-pros and fast amateurs go off first leaving a clear course for the fun runners. Most people are running at the same pace as those around them. RideLondon mixes it all up so you have club chain gangs trying to pass the fun-riders and first time charity riders. My suggestion would be to run the pro-race immediately _before_ the sportive, then start times for the mass participation event can be allocated accorded to predicted speed/finish time. Most incidents I witnessed (and to be fair, I didn't see that many, so let's not overstate it) were the result of mixed speed and ability riders occupying the same space. I would be unfair to blame them all on the faster 'all the gear' riders as that certainly wasn't the case.


----------



## rb58 (1 Aug 2016)

From Ride London Facebook page:

OFFICIAL STATEMENT: ROBIN CHARD

With deep sadness, we confirm the death of a participant in the 2016 Prudential RideLondon-Surrey 100.

Robin Chard, aged 48, from Bicester, suffered a cardiac arrest at Kingston Bridge at around the 25 mile mark and although he received immediate treatment from fellow riders and medical personnel at the scene, he died later in Kingston Hospital.

Robin’s wife Vickie said: “Robin was doing something he loved to raise money for Cancer Research UK, a cause that was very important to him after losing his father, his mother’s partner and my mother to cancer. I’d like to thank everyone who has helped and supported Robin and me, especially the event stewards, the event team and the amazing staff at Kingston Hospital.”

Robin’s fundraising link is here: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/Robin-Chard

Everyone involved in Prudential RideLondon would like to express sincere condolences to Robin’s family and friends.

No further details will be released and the family has asked for privacy. The exact cause of death will be established by later medical examination.

A total of 33 riders were taken to hospital and, of those, seven riders remain in hospital. Three riders were seriously injured. The Prudential RideLondon medical team is liaising closely with the hospitals and the welfare team is supporting the families of the injured riders.


----------



## Globalti (1 Aug 2016)

I've done the Cape Argus race three times, which usually has around 32,000 riders. They've been running this for many years and must have gained some experience because starters are carefully sorted by age and ability and from their previous year's time. Nonetheless I gave it up after my third time when I heard a terrible crash happening just behind me, which was rather un-nerving. The scenery far exceeds what London and Surrey can offer.

Edit: Can anybody calculate whether the accident rate yesterday was in line with the national average in terms of injuries per mile cycled?


----------



## Pale Rider (1 Aug 2016)

Deaths through over exertion are a regular occurrence in mass participation events.

The Great North Run went through a bad patch of one or more deaths annually.

It was moved to later in the year in the hope running it in cooler weather would lead to fewer fatalities.

It's worked so far, no deaths since it was pushed back.


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

rb58 said:


> sMost incidents I witnessed (and to be fair, I didn't see that many, so let's not overstate it) were the result of mixed speed and ability riders occupying the same space. I would be unfair to blame them all on the faster 'all the gear' riders as that certainly wasn't the case.


about half a mile from the start, in one of the under pass sections, there was a young lady who was visible nervous / scared, she was a moving road block with everyone having to ride past her as she pulled on her brakes going down hill in the middle of a dual carriage way.
She clearly hadnt ever ridden in close proximity to other riders before and wasnt prepared for the experience.
The london marathon average speed is 5-6 miles per hour for the fun runners so any speed differentials with quicker runners is much less, and it is far easier to take evasive action. They dont have to close roads when runners are injured, everyone just runs past.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> Edit: Can anybody calculate whether the accident rate yesterday was in line with the national average in terms of injuries per mile cycled?


https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/ras53-modal-comparisons says we suffered 4074 injuries per billion km in 2014. I think yesterday saw 26'000 doing 160km and 3'000 doing 73.6km, which is 4'380'800km or 0.0043808 billion km, so I think we expect 17.9 injuries (3sf) or 18 injuries as we cannot have part of an injury.

I think I was told by someone who asked a finish-line marshal that there were high-40s injuries, but that's not confirmed by the reports above. They might be only the serious for which we'd expect 672 per bn km as many, or 2.94 (3sf), which seems about what we got. And we expect 0.0964 fatalities (3sf).

But if the high-40s total injuries is correct, unless I'm overlooking something obvious as usual, RideLondon 2016 seems about twice as dangerous as cycling in general and ten times deadlier (but the deadlier is very unfair, as it's a small number and you can't have a tenth of a death). As many of you may remember, I don't think much of their so-called "safety" measures (or medical advice, for that matter) so please check my maths.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> Edit: Can anybody calculate whether the accident rate yesterday was in line with the national average in terms of injuries per mile cycled?



https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...data/file/447674/pedal-cyclists-2013-data.pdf

1 KSI per million miles. Yesterday there were about 24,000 riders, doing about 100 miles each (yes, I know some will have had a shortened case, but this is approximate hand-wavey stats). That's 2.4 million miles. So, based on the national average you'd expect about 2.4 KSI. In fact, according to Ride London, there were 4. Which, in the realm of small number statistics, is pretty close.

On the face of it I find that statistic surprising - I tend to the view that inexperienced and careless riding, and very tired riders, make for a much riskier environment than traffic following predictable rules does.

I think I did the sums last year, after the second heart attack inside three years, and realised that it was about on a par with the London Marathon. So, again, on a statistical basis it's not surprising that there was a cardiac fatality again.

The difference between the two events, that I suspect in due course will need to result in either fewer, more spread-out riders or a change of route to wider roads, is that getting medical assistance to a cyclist in a bunch of cyclists is much more disruptive of the flow of participants than it would be in a running event.


----------



## Globalti (1 Aug 2016)

Interesting, thanks for making the effort with the calcs. I'm not surprised as I'm sure there was a lot of crowding and idiocy.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

rb58 said:


> then start times for the mass participation event can be allocated accorded to predicted speed/finish time. .


They do seem to _try _to do this, but riders subvert it by waiting for friends, by mis-estimating their time on the entry form, by having refreshment stops and by the dumb bad luck of having mechanicals.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> So unless I'm overlooking something obvious as usual, RideLondon 2016 seems about twice as dangerous as cycling in general.



May I rephrase that?

"Taking part in RideLondon exposes you to the possibility of injury at a rate of about double that of going for a 100 mile ride on your own. But you're still extremely unlikely to be injured."

To get some sort of sense of the _real_ risk I dug up the injury statistics for spectators at football grounds, something which most people wouldn't even think of as risky.

http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/safety/injury-statistics

Taking part in Ride London is only about three times as risky as going to a stadium to watch a football match. Here's how I reach that conclusion. It takes, let's say, 30 minutes to walk through a stadium to get to your seat, get a pie, go to the loo and so on. There was one injury per 31,300 spectators, or one injury per 15,000 participant-hours.

Ride London had 33 injuries for 29,000 participants. On average, participants took about 5 hours. That's about 33 injuries per 150,000 participant-hours, or one injury per 5,000 participant-hours. 

Of course, I've only considered frequency - cycling injuries tend to be more severe than stadium injuries - but it's this sort of reframing of statistics that is the way to get people to see risk in a more rational way.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> "Taking part in RideLondon exposes you to the possibility of injury at a rate of about double that of going for a 100 mile ride on your own. But *you're still extremely unlikely to be injured*."


Yes, the bold bit is important, although it wasn't part of the question asked.



srw said:


> Of course, I've only considered frequency - cycling injuries tend to be more severe than stadium injuries - but it's this sort of reframing of statistics that is the way to get people to see risk in a more rational way.


With the number of people wittering on about how safe they think riding on closed roads is, I think it's actually helpful to encourage people to realise that while both are pretty safe, day-to-day cycling has a far *lower* injury rate than this big event, while bringing health benefits that one ride a year just can't.



User said:


> I assumed that people just lie on the application, on the basis that they think putting down a slow time will get their application binned.


Also, I think a lot of people have trouble estimating how much quicker they will go on closed roads, too, plus the terrain around London is reasonably gentle. Despite their notoriety, the hills are fairly sparse and not as big as even the Mendips, but you aren't exposed on wide windswept fens or levels either.

So you've a lot of too-fast fibs and too-slow errors, plus some groups all putting similar times in the hope of getting similar start times, so it'll be a mess of shuffling out even if there were no delays or diversions. If more riders had done it before, there might be more data to base start time allocations upon, but that'll take years, especially with such oversubscription.


----------



## swansonj (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> May I rephrase that?....


Of course, and unfortunately, the prime exponents of the art of describing risk in terms designed to make it sound more acceptable are the nuclear industry, the fracking and GM crops folk, and so on...

However worthy the cause, it's a route to be trodden with a certain amount of caution.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Yes, the bold bit is important, although it wasn't part of the question asked.


No, but I think it's extremely important - _extremely important! _- to keep repeating it. It's the only way to change the narrative. Repeating something hundreds of times is what won David Cameron the last election, and won the Brexiteers the referendum. And if they can both do it with big lies for malign ends, then we can do it with a big truth for positive ends.


> With the number of people wittering on about how safe they think riding on closed roads is, I think it's actually helpful to encourage people to realise that while both are pretty safe, day-to-day cycling has a far *lower* injury rate than this big event, while bringing health benefits that one ride a year just can't.


In my book, somewhere around double, plus or minus quite a lot because of the small sample size, and off a very small base isn't "far lower". It's "a bit lower". 

And my expectation - and experience from the thread on here, non-cycling colleagues who've done the event and pure common sense, is that most people who sign up for a big event do so in the expectation that they will do a lot of day-to-day cycling to prepare. And then do that day-to-day cycling.


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

swansonj said:


> Of course, and unfortunately, the prime exponents of the art of describing risk in terms designed to make it sound more acceptable are the nuclear industry, the fracking and GM crops folk, and so on...
> 
> However worthy the cause, it's a route to be trodden with a certain amount of caution.


That's the post-truth world for you.

I think it's slightly more honourable to reframe statistics and, at the same time, point out that that's what you're doing, than just to do the reframing while pretending that you're being neutral.


----------



## PK99 (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> They do seem to _try _to do this, but riders subvert it by waiting for friends, by mis-estimating their time on the entry form, by having refreshment stops and by the dumb bad luck of having mechanicals.



I observed last year that with a middling start time I was being overtaken by pace lines of identically dressed fast club cyclists. They had clearly either waited and formed their group or had cheated by putting identical slow time projections.

From my experience of the start time allocated to me and everyone I knew who rode, the "seeding by projected ride time and age" was pretty good and consistent.


----------



## User482 (1 Aug 2016)

rb58 said:


> Most incidents I witnessed (and to be fair, I didn't see that many, so let's not overstate it) were the result of mixed speed and ability riders occupying the same space. I would be unfair to blame them all on the faster 'all the gear' riders as that certainly wasn't the case.


Yes, that was my experience too. For the most part, the event seemed to cope well with the wide variation in ambitions for the day. Obviously there were a few nobbers but that was very much the minority, and it seems to me that some commentators who weren't there are too eager to stereotype the participants.

Sadly, I did see the aftermath of a very nasty crash near the bottom of the Leith Hill descent: a rider was lying unconscious in the road, covered in blood. I do hope the organisers will reflect on the wisdom of funnelling so many people down a steep, narrow descent.


----------



## zizou (1 Aug 2016)

PK99 said:


> I observed last year that with a middling start time I was being overtaken by pace lines of identically dressed fast club cyclists. They had clearly either waited and formed their group or had cheated by putting identical slow time projections.
> 
> From my experience of the start time allocated to me and everyone I knew who rode, the "seeding by projected ride time and age" was pretty good and consistent.



Part of this might be explained by how the club entry is handled - the riders get allocated a wave corresponding to what the slowest rider in their group puts on their entry.


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I assumed that people just lie on the application, on the basis that they think putting down a slow time will get their application binned.



The perverse thing is that if you are really slow it is beneficial to have an earlier start time so you have longer to finish.

This year was just a mess because the big hold up bunched every one up too tight, then slow riders at the back too a diversion which placed them back in front of riders trapped in the blockage. That road through Ripley really doesnt have any other suitable diversion routes because it is the only bridge over the river Wey.

Then leith hill was shut so this further compacted the field. And to top it off two other diversions were in place to cut out box hill, and they also made some riders divert across to leatherhead missing out all three big hills. 

The tannoy at the finish was saying there were unexpected numbers when i finished. i presume there was a whole hour when virtually no one crossed the line.


----------



## PK99 (1 Aug 2016)

zizou said:


> Part of this might be explained by how the club entry is handled - the riders get allocated a wave corresponding to what the slowest rider in their group puts on their entry.



I hadn't realised that there were club entries treated in this way, sounds ripe for manipulation.


----------



## rugby bloke (1 Aug 2016)

User482 said:


> Sadly, I did see the aftermath of a very nasty crash near the bottom of the Leith Hill descent: a rider was lying unconscious in the road, covered in blood. I do hope the organisers will reflect on the wisdom of funnelling so many people down a steep, narrow descent.


This part of the course always scares the bejesus out of me - steep, narrow, dark ... I'm hard on the brakes all the way down ... I'm probably the slowest person on the course at that point.


----------



## PK99 (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> The perverse thing is that if you are really slow it is beneficial to have an earlier start time so you have longer to finish.
> e.



What would be truly perverse would be to allocate start times in that way and have the whole field bunching and turning itself inside out out over the morning.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

Let's not lose track of the fact that this is a Sportive, not a race. Far too many people don't seem to get that fact.


----------



## User482 (1 Aug 2016)

rugby bloke said:


> This part of the course always scares the bejesus out of me - steep, narrow, dark ... I'm hard on the brakes all the way down ... I'm probably the slowest person on the course at that point.



I think your comment goes back to rb58's point about mixed speed riders occupying the same space. It's a non-issue on a wide A-road, but very much a problem on that descent.


----------



## Tim Hall (1 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> Let's not lose track of the fact that this is a Sportive, not a race. Far too many people don't seem to get that fact.


The BBC for one. Their local news page referred to it as a race.


----------



## vickster (1 Aug 2016)

Maybe there shouldn't be club/team entries...it's not a race after all

Or a club applies for say 4 entries and the clubs all go out first.


----------



## PK99 (1 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Maybe there shouldn't be club/team entries...it's not a race after all



Depends on the intended riding style, if either of the clubs I ride with put in a club entry, the ride would be on the same terms as our club rides - the pace of the slowest rider. 

But your point is valid wrt 'racing teams'


----------



## rugby bloke (1 Aug 2016)

User482 said:


> I think your comment goes back to rb58's point about mixed speed riders occupying the same space. It's a non-issue on a wide A-road, but very much a problem on that descent.


It's a tricky one - I find that I'm slower than most of the riders around me on the descents, as quick as most on the flats and overtaking people on the climbs - so that on average I'm probably in the right place even if I'm a bit of a road block on the descents. There were other riders who were in the opposite position, they would over take me on the descents and I would over take them on the climbs, on average we were maintaining the same pace. I guess its not an issue when the road is wide but I recognise that slow descenders like me are a problem on narrow roads,


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> The BBC for one. Their local news page referred to it as a race.


And their commentators continually referred to it as a 'race'. This is where the problem lies. Too many "urrgh, by the power of grayskull, I must not let anyone pass me, because I'm a pro you see, a pro I tell you, I could ride for a pro team, cos I'm that good, but I have to enter a sportive / fun ride, because I'm actually a bit crap, by pro standards" monkeys, making it stressful for the vast majority.


----------



## User482 (1 Aug 2016)

rugby bloke said:


> It's a tricky one - I find that I'm slower than most of the riders around me on the descents, as quick as most on the flats and overtaking people on the climbs - so that on average I'm probably in the right place even if I'm a bit of a road block on the descents. There were other riders who were in the opposite position, they would over take me on the descents and I would over take them on the climbs, on average we were maintaining the same pace. * I guess its not an issue when the road is wide but I recognise that slow descenders like me are a problem on narrow roads*,


As others have said, it's not a race, so you should feel able to descend at your own speed. I think the problem is simply too many people for that section.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> The BBC for one. Their local news page referred to it as a race.


Here, enjoy the full horror of "Two riders have been injured in separate crashes during the amateur RideLondon-Surrey 100 cycle race. A man came off his bike and hit a tree just after 09:00 BST in Woking and was taken to hospital by air ambulance. Another rider was injured in Thames Ditton just before 11:00 and treated at the scene for head injuries. [SPOILER DELETED] later won the men's professional Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic race, which finished in The Mall, London just before 18:25." - but there's enough BBC-kicking over on the race thread, for now.



Racing roadkill said:


> And their commentators continually referred to it as a 'race'. This is where the problem lies. Too many "urrgh, by the power of grayskull, I must not let anyone pass me, because I'm a pro you see, a pro I tell you, I could ride for a pro team, cos I'm that good, but I have to enter a sportive / fun ride, because I'm actually a bit crap, by pro standards" monkeys, making it stressful for the vast majority.


Did we like the sportive rider in the cinelli kit who rode into the Mall with the last of the pro race before being ordered off the course at the deviation?



rugby bloke said:


> I guess its not an issue when the road is wide but I recognise that *narrow roads are a problem when too many nobbers try to turn it into a race*


Fixed that for you! It's like the loonies with gels and TT bikes who tut when a small child on a fairy bike gets in their way on the Freecycle loop. It's not the place. EDIT: I think the organisation and the Fear-Of-Broom-Wagon time limit is very unhelpful here, encouraging everyone to keep push on lest a mechanical or the man with the hammer prevents them from finishing a ride that they ordinarily could do comfortably in a day.



User said:


> Publish times and it is always going to be a de facto race, no matter what the organisers intend or state.


Is there a published list, or just the rider tracker? Anyway, if the event didn't publish, there would still be some Straviots and Garmingers racing for top places on their sites.


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I think I did the sums last year, after the second heart attack inside three years, and realised that it was about on a par with the London Marathon. So, again, on a statistical basis it's not surprising that there was a cardiac fatality again.



I've been thinking about this. I think that these figures might be useful in understanding the risk.






So if the riders were a representative group of the population of the UK, then you'd expect more than an hundred people to die in the next 12 months from that group, at least one every 3 or 4 days. Of course it's not representative, not having the very old, very young, frail, terminally ill etc etc. The obese would be in a lower proportion than the general community, but I observed quite a few obese riders (at the 85 mile mark, so presumably more started). The group would also be less sedentary than the general population. It is also predominantly male, who are at twice the risk in the age groups that would include most of the riders. But even it the riders are 10 times less moribund than the general population, that still leaves a dozen or so riders who aren't going to around this time next year. It's not at all surprising then, that one person dies from the exertion most years.


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Crash on Kingston Bridge, reported by @jefmcg https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/4391502/ - possibly http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ridelondon-tragedy-cancer-survivor-robin-11688265



It didn't look like the aftermath of a crash. Only one injured I could tell. I'm now pretty sure this was Robin. I spoke briefly to a passerby who obviously had stopped to lend a hand, and had stayed until the casualty was in the ambulance. He was thanked by the police. I said "I hope it's not serious", and he didn't say anything, but his expression now makes me realise he either knew it was a fatality, or thought it was. I didn't press the matter.


----------



## rb58 (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> I think the organisation and the Fear-Of-Broom-Wagon time limit is very unhelpful here, encouraging everyone to keep push on lest a mechanical or the man with the hammer prevents them from finishing a ride that they ordinarily could do comfortably in a day.


That's my point. The broom wagon is because roads need to be clear for the pros. If the pro race went first then it's not so pressing. I know there would be other other challenges in reversing the order - the pro-peloton won't like starting at, say, 8.00am for example. But worth consideration I think.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> It didn't look like the aftermath of a crash. Only one injured I could tell. I'm now pretty sure this was Robin.


My misunderstanding. Thanks for the update. Wording edited to "incident".


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I don't suppose the TV companies would be too keen.


BBC cover the Marathon in the morning and even yesterday had some show on BBC two at ten am. Do we really think the BBC care much what time they fail to show the pro race finish?


----------



## vickster (1 Aug 2016)

rb58 said:


> That's my point. The broom wagon is because roads need to be clear for the pros. If the pro race went first then it's not so pressing. I know there would be other other challenges in reversing the order - the pro-peloton won't like starting at, say, 8.00am for example. But worth consideration I think.


I don't think the sponsors would be keen either. They wouldn't get the crowds of spectators. Apparently it's the richest one day race


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

I've always assumed that the pro-race was the point of the day, but as they need to have the road closures, and staff and infrastructure, why not run a huge sportive at the same time? Changing to pro-ride to improve the sportive would be putting the cart before the horse.


----------



## PhilDawson8270 (1 Aug 2016)

The BBC article says one is being treated with head injuries. But I thought everybody has to wear helmets?


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> I've always assumed that the pro-race was the point of the day, but as they need to have the road closures, and staff and infrastructure, why not run a huge sportive at the same time? Changing to pro-ride to improve the sportive would be putting the cart before the horse.


And there was me thinking the point was a mass participation Olympic legacy event...


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> And there was me thinking the point was a mass participation Olympic legacy event...





> The London & Surrey Cycling Partnership is a joint venture between London Marathon Events Limited, owner and operator of the Virgin Money London Marathon andSweetSpot Group, operator of the Tour of Britain.
> 
> “The team at the London & Surrey Cycling Partnership are thrilled to be appointed by TfL as delivery partner of Prudential RideLondon.


https://www.prudentialridelondon.co.uk/about/organisers/

It's a TFL enterprise, delivered by an organisation that does mass participation events and an organisation that does pro bike racing.

To be honest, I don't think that any one of the half-dozen events than currently make up the weekend would happen without both the Sportive and the pro race - they are both Olympic legacy events, twin legs on which the promotion of cycling by TfL rests.

[edit]

This Guardian article has some thoughts.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> The BBC article says one is being treated with head injuries. But I thought everybody has to wear helmets?


Yes, but at least one guy at Limehouse had a huge chunk missing from the front of his helmet (how? Far too many people for anyone to crash heavily unseen there and hopefully someone would have worried about a guy with a smashed hat) and no one was stopping him. Helmets are limited use in single- rider falls and less in pileups and there seemed no attempt to check helmets, so I think they're safety theatre driven by the UCI/BC helmet zealots rather than any practical concern. Basic bike checks (simple brake tests and chain spin on the way into the start pens, for example) would probably improve safety more.

Despite all that, nearly 30,000 rides finished OK, because cycling's basically safe.


----------



## vickster (1 Aug 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> The BBC article says one is being treated with head injuries. But I thought everybody has to wear helmets?


Maybe the provided public liability insurance demands it, rightly or wrongly


----------



## steveindenmark (1 Aug 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> The BBC article says one is being treated with head injuries. But I thought everybody has to wear helmets?



A cycling helmet will not necessarily prevent head injuries. This has always been a bone of contention.


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Is there a published list, or just the rider tracker? Anyway, if the event didn't publish, there would still be some Straviots and Garmingers racing for top places on their sites.



Yes, there is even a long interview and photograph of the "Winner" on their main Home Page. To rub it in, he claims that he has never cycled further than 50 miles before!



mjray said:


> Basic bike checks (simple brake tests and chain spin on the way into the start pens, for example) would probably improve safety more.
> .



They can't possibly check everyone's bike, it would take too long, and could then make them liable if something went wrong. They do make suggestions in the pre ride literature to make sure your bike is road worthy. Despite this I stopped at Chiswick bridge (about 15 miles) for a call of nature, as I was in the queue there were two people with bikes up on the mechanic's stand, both needed new bearings in the rear wheel, which were flopping about. I have no idea whether they gave up or carried on.


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> My misunderstanding. Thanks for the update. Wording edited to "incident".


Just checked, and I did call it a "nasty crash". So mea culpa. That was my assumption based on the apparent serious condition of the rider.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> Yes, there is even a long interview and photograph of the "Winner" on their main Home Page. To rub it in, he claims that he has never cycled further than 50 miles before!


My disappointment at reading that is tempered by my amusement at the thought of all the hardened club multi-centurions it will infuriate. The organisation is probably making a rod for their own back with that sort of behaviour, though. Next year, more people will be racing in earnest trying to "win" their fizzog on the web homepage.



Beebo said:


> They can't possibly check everyone's bike, it would take too long, and could then make them liable if something went wrong.


Letting people out with completely unchecked bikes, some on explicitly prohibited bikes, seems more likely to make them liable. I'm sure making it clear that they've not got time to do a full personal check on every bike would take the edge off it, but they've got people stood in the start pens for a fair while and could walk them through the old "hold your front brake on, push the bike forwards, does the back wheel lift? OK, now hold the back brake on, pull the bars back, does the front wheel lift? OK, spin the pedals, is it all OK - if you've got a problem, raise your hand and a mechanic will try to get to you" routine would work wonders.



Beebo said:


> They do make suggestions in the pre ride literature to make sure your bike is road worthy.


That's obviously demonstrably almost useless, as we can see from your floppy rear wheels and my sighting of defective helmets and banned bikes. They shouldn't let it continue without some practical checks, possibly at random or on suspicion of "that looks hinky"


----------



## jefmcg (1 Aug 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> A cycling helmet will not necessarily prevent head injuries. This has always been a bone of contention.


It's something both helmet sceptics and manufacturers know is true. The belief it will prevent all head injuries and/or deaths is only held by some users. It should not be a bone of contention.


----------



## zizou (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> Yes, there is even a long interview and photograph of the "Winner" on their main Home Page. To rub it in, he claims that he has never cycled further than 50 miles before!



Either been telling porkies or has been misquoted https://www.strava.com/athletes/368715

Apparently there were a couple of riders who came in a bit before the 'winning' group, the announcer was congratulating them over the line and they were getting interviewed before it was discovered they had missed out a chunk of the route...the announcer then calls them out for cheating over the tannoy and they make a sharp exit!


----------



## Profpointy (1 Aug 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> A cycling helmet will not necessarily prevent head injuries. This has always been a bone of contention.



I think you missed the irony nuance in Phil's comment


----------



## steveindenmark (1 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> I think you missed the irony nuance in Phil's comment



I'm fromYorkshire. We don't use words like nuance or irony. But I'm happy to take your word for it :O)


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> Yes, there is even a long interview and photograph of the "Winner" on their main Home Page. To rub it in, he claims that he has never cycled further than 50 miles before!


You'll excuse me if I raise a quizzical eyebrow. The closest I can find is this article:
https://www.prudentialridelondon.co...s-thousands-finish-britians-biggest-sportive/

The only "winner" on that page was part of the 2003 Rugby World Cup winning team. In fact they are extremely careful _not_ to imply that the first man across the line of the sportive "won" anything - and they've had very similar articles on their website for the last two years at least.


----------



## zizou (1 Aug 2016)

PK99 said:


> I hadn't realised that there were club entries treated in this way, sounds ripe for manipulation.



It's a good system for payment (each individual is responsible for paying their own entry rather than it being the club or 1 individual responsible for other entrants) but it's not great for coordinating things if a club has multiple teams in. Basically one person at each club has degree of control over the entry portal for that club which works out OK if the person with the admin tools is also a member of that team, but for the bigger clubs who may have multiple teams involved then it is pretty unwieldy system for them to use. You can discuss it beforehand and give your club mates good instructions about what to do but there is usually always someone who does something different tp what was agreed upon!


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> You'll excuse me if I raise a quizzical eyebrow. The closest I can find is this article:
> https://www.prudentialridelondon.co...s-thousands-finish-britians-biggest-sportive/
> 
> The only "winner" on that page was part of the 2003 Rugby World Cup winning team. In fact they are extremely careful _not_ to imply that the first man across the line of the sportive "won" anything - and they've had very similar articles on their website for the last two years at least.



The photo has gone which is interesting, but there was a photo of him on the mall.
You are correct it doesn't say he is a winner, which is why I used quotes, it says he had the honour of being first across the line.
However they describe it we all know that the guys at the front are racing. If it isn't a big deal why do the organisers bother to mention it?


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (1 Aug 2016)

*Moderator Note:*

No more about the effectiveness or otherwise of helmets in this thread please. That discussion belongs here: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-cyclechat-helmet-debate-thread.187059/


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> The photo has gone which is interesting, but there was a photo of him on the mall.
> You are correct it doesn't say he is a winner, which is why I used quotes, it says he had the honour of being first across the line.
> However they describe it we all know that the guys at the front are racing. If it isn't a big deal why do the organisers bother to mention it?


I tend to use quotes if I'm quoting someone. The clue's in the name...

I do get what you're saying - but "beating a time" isn't really the same as "racing" - at least not over 100 miles.


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I tend to use quotes if I'm quoting someone. The clue's in the name...
> 
> I do get what you're saying - but "beating a time" isn't really the same as "racing" - at least not over 100 miles.


I was using them in the tabloid sense!


----------



## srw (1 Aug 2016)

Beebo said:


> I was using them in the tabloid sense!


And, to be fair, the sense in which I was using them in my post.

Oops.


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I do get what you're saying - but "beating a time" isn't really the same as "racing" - at least not over 100 miles.


I thought the interviewee merely crossed the line first, rather than taking the least time to do it? Could have had a ten minute headstart on the second finisher. I'm with @Beebo: they're racing in all but name and the organisers seem to be engaging in nudge-nudge-wink-wink encouragement of it.


----------



## Beebo (1 Aug 2016)

I have found the official tweet with his picture.

https://twitter.com/RideLondon/status/759680630191955968


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

zizou said:


> Either been telling porkies or has been misquoted https://www.strava.com/athletes/368715
> 
> Apparently there were a couple of riders who came in a bit before the 'winning' group, the announcer was congratulating them over the line and they were getting interviewed before it was discovered they had missed out a chunk of the route...the announcer then calls them out for cheating over the tannoy and they make a sharp exit!


There were loads of riders 'disappearing' up side roads (that were coned off) usually in the hilly bit from Newlands to the start of Box, only to reappear and finish the ride. As long as they hit all the timing bars, it looks Kosher. This is why there's no point in the timing system, it's too easy to blag it, and it encourages knobberism.


----------



## Pale Rider (1 Aug 2016)

User13710 said:


> I'm not sure how you can be sure of that, unless you know all the thousands of riders personally that is.



You can be sure that if @Racing roadkill has correctly identified a cheat method, many others will have done the same and used it.


----------



## Lee_M (1 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I assumed that people just lie on the application, on the basis that they think putting down a slow time will get their application binned.



not always, whilst in the queue caused by the accident, we met a guy who had stated his completion time of 5 hours and he was given a start time of 9am!

we estimated 7 hours which was reasonable, although we managed 6, but were overtaking lots of people obviously much slower who had set off way too early.

I /think it needs tobe better marshalled at the start


----------



## mjr (1 Aug 2016)

Lee_M said:


> I /think it needs tobe better marshalled at the start


It looked fairly slick, but the lack of security worried me. With all those people standing still for so long and some with rather large panniers on right in their midst, couldn't it be a soft target for people with bags that go bang nastily?


----------



## Cuchilo (1 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> There were loads of riders 'disappearing' up side roads (that were coned off) usually in the hilly bit from Newlands to the start of Box, only to reappear and finish the ride. As long as they hit all the timing bars, it looks Kosher. This is why there's no point in the timing system, it's too easy to blag it, and it encourages knobberism.


Why someone would pay to do a ride and then cheat is beyond me


----------



## Kosong (1 Aug 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Why someone would pay to do a ride and then cheat is beyond me



Complete idiots. Prob just want to show off to people on Strava etc...but I'd rather come last and be knackered and breathless having completed the full course and challenged myself!


----------



## GuyBoden (1 Aug 2016)

It's a fantastic cycling event, it's great to see lots of cyclists out on the streets of London, but a lot of riders don't seem to know how to ride safely in a large group. Hopefully the organisers issue safe cycling guidelines and encourage the participants to get out with their local clubs before the event.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> It looked fairly slick, but the lack of security worried me. With all those people standing still for so long and some with rather large panniers on right in their midst, couldn't it be a soft target for people with bags that go bang nastily?


There were some sniffer dogs, not overt, not obvious, but they were around. They have a pretty keen sense of smell. Sure if someone was really hell bent on blowing up a bunch of cyclists, it could happen ( look at the Boston Marathon for example), but I really couldn't care less about idiots like that, if I changed my plans based on them, they win. Not on my watch.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

Kosong said:


> Complete idiots. Prob just want to show off to people on Strava etc...but I'd rather come last and be knackered and breathless having completed the full course and challenged myself!


That's the spirit.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> It's a fantastic cycling event, it's great to see lots of cyclists out on the streets of London, but a lot of riders don't seem to know how to ride safely in a large group. Hopefully the organisers issue safe cycling guidelines and encourage the participants to get out with their local clubs before the event.


You get to learn how to anticipate the 'harmless but hopeless' riders. They are like squirrels, but you can make allowances for them. The ones that increase the temperature of my urine, are the "you shall not pass" brigade, who will do everything to prevent you from passing them, stick elbows out, start to carve around on a descent, snot rocket at you, etc. They need a shoeing. The vast majority of the riders I encountered were not too bad, there were a small minority of complete sockets, who were just going to 'club ride' and were oblivious to the danger they were causing to the majority, but given the huge numbers involved, it wasn't too bad.


----------



## Racing roadkill (1 Aug 2016)

Lee_M said:


> not always, whilst in the queue caused by the accident, we met a guy who had stated his completion time of 5 hours and he was given a start time of 9am!
> 
> we estimated 7 hours which was reasonable, although we managed 6, but were overtaking lots of people obviously much slower who had set off way too early.
> 
> I /think it needs tobe better marshalled at the start


The organisers can't pay too much attention to 'predicted times'. They can place people more accurately if they have set a time in the previous year's event, that's obviously not fool proof, but if the evidence of my start placing is anything to go on, it was fairly accurate. I left with a large wave of 'black wave' riders, and I finished with a fairly large bunch of 'black wave' riders. We reached and passed the slower starters, on the wider, flatter sections, so that worked as well. Despite the problems caused by the Pyrford crash, we all seemed to reach the hilly bit, without many hill walkers, wobblers, and fallers, causing problems. There was one bloke ( not a rider ) walking up the right hand side of the road, on the steepest part of the Leith descent, but largely it wasn't so bad.


----------



## HLaB (1 Aug 2016)

Apart from an annoying wheel suckers (particularly the last nobber) it actually felt safer to me this year but that's probably because we were in a much later wave and it had started to thin out quite a bit (relatively at least) and I rode the second half solo (dropped my mate by mistake, thought he was on my wheel but it was yet another wheel sucker). 

Rode in a group of three last year and when I was in the second row behind the other two riders who were side by side an unknown fourth rider joined the pack. If I was behind the slowest rider and he became marginally the faster, the idiot would jump onto his wheel forgetting I was there




He almost had me off a few times and couldn't hold his line at corners either.

A wee bit OT as to the last wheel sucker but I'll tell you anyway  I had an annoying yellow blob sitting on my wheel for over 10 miles at the end aka (wheel sucker/nobber)



I didn't have the energy to up it to beyond 21mph to lose him so I tried the opposite tactic to lose him going downhills at 15mph, the nobber and his noisy freehub just sat there though. I tried it a few times but he still sat there. And I must admit although my instinct was to give hand signals after a while I deliberately stopped doing it, probably pointless as my shoulder check before moving out gave every movement away. With all the slowing down I got a fresh set of legs for the penultimate 5miles and was motoring at 25mph he still sat there but it worried me less as there was more of a gap. About 2miles from the end two blokes went by at speed and I became the wheel sucker to lose him (it finally worked). I was going to come by but I then thought what if I blow up and get the wheel sucker back so I stayed on their wheel to the end. In the unlikely event they are reading this, thanks and sterling effort guys.


----------



## Cuchilo (1 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> You get to learn how to anticipate the 'harmless but hopeless' riders. They are like squirrels, but you can make allowances for them. The ones that increase the temperature of my urine, are the "you shall not pass" brigade, who will do everything to prevent you from passing them, stick elbows out, start to carve around on a descent, snot rocket at you, etc. They need a shoeing. The vast majority of the riders I encountered were not too bad, there were a small minority of complete sockets, who were just going to 'club ride' and were oblivious to the danger they were causing to the majority, but given the huge numbers involved, it wasn't too bad.


I thought the whole point of BC offering clubs team spaces was to avoid this . I know my clubs team was off early .


----------



## huwsparky (1 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> Apart from an annoying wheel suckers (particularly the last nobber) it actually felt safer to me this year but that's probably because we were in a much later wave and it had started to thin out quite a bit (relatively at least) and I rode the second half solo (dropped my mate by mistake, thought he was on my wheel but it was yet another wheel sucker).
> 
> Rode in a group of three last year and when I was in the second row behind the other two riders who were side by side an unknown fourth rider joined the pack. If I was behind the slowest rider and he became marginally the faster, the idiot would jump onto his wheel forgetting I was there
> 
> ...


To me, you probably entered the wrong event!


----------



## Simontm (1 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> View attachment 137187
> 
> 
> It happened right in front of that church on the hill, about a minute before we got there. It was caused by a bunch of knobbers 'chain ganging'. The Marshalls shouted at them to slow down, and if you look carefully, you can see the bright pink "caution" sign, on the left, by the start of the corner, but one of them clipped the kerb, and wrapped himself around a tree. He broke his neck.


Church lane? I checked my speed a couple of weeks ago and that was just me and no traffic whatsoever on road. Was worried last year but was in a nicely spaced out set so no drama


----------



## Stinboy (2 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> Apart from an annoying wheel suckers (particularly the last nobber) it actually felt safer to me this year but that's probably because we were in a much later wave and it had started to thin out quite a bit (relatively at least) and I rode the second half solo (dropped my mate by mistake, thought he was on my wheel but it was yet another wheel sucker).
> 
> Rode in a group of three last year and when I was in the second row behind the other two riders who were side by side an unknown fourth rider joined the pack. If I was behind the slowest rider and he became marginally the faster, the idiot would jump onto his wheel forgetting I was there
> 
> ...



Did you perhaps explain to him at any stage that you were unhappy with him sitting on your rear wheel? 

Congratulations though on the number of times the expression 'wheel sucker' appears in your post. Truly epic ;-)


----------



## HLaB (2 Aug 2016)

@husparky Why? Because after experiencing some dodgy riding I prefer to ride on my own and in space? Or that I don't like unknown Wheel Suckers (which I must admit that I became one for the last two miles)?


----------



## Stinboy (2 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> @husparky Why? Because after experiencing some dodgy riding I prefer to ride on my own and in space? Or that I don't like unknown Wheel Suckers (which I must admit that I became one for the last two miles)?



This kind of behaviour is to be expected though at such a large event of this distance. The roads will be very busy, and people will get tired towards the end so will sit on a wheel.

Personally, I would either take it as a complement or ask them (politely ) to cut it out if it's making me uncomfortable


----------



## HLaB (2 Aug 2016)

@Stinboy On hindsight (that wonerful thing) that wonderful thing I maybe could have explained to him more than the obvious gestures and signals. I tried to do that when I slowed down to get him to come alongside so I could verbally ask him to come through or back off but I didn't feel safe with his positioning to actually stop, perhaps I should have.


----------



## huwsparky (2 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> @husparky Why? Because after experiencing some dodgy riding I prefer to ride on my own and in space? Or that I don't like unknown Wheel Suckers (which I must admit that I became one for the last two miles)?


I can't believe your asking that question! 

If other peoples etiquette I a primary for you why choose to be in close proximity to some 40k riders in the first place. 
What you've described would have been the exact same experiences of everyone else. Guaranteed you would have done something during that ride that would have had someone else saying the same about you.


----------



## e-rider (2 Aug 2016)

from the comments on here (not the OP) it sounds like the worst possible bike ride ever! I like riding on my own or with the club of up to 20 riders. I have done sportives in the past but found that such events tend to attract the worst kind of cyclists/people - this ridelondon sounds like all the bad parts of a sportive multiplied by 100


----------



## HLaB (2 Aug 2016)

@Husparky I didn't sit 2 inches off the back wheel of anyone for ovet 10 miles so I doubt I unnerved anyone for that long. Other folk sat on my wheel for a bit or past close momentarily which doesn't really bother me, its just some muppet doing it for over 10 miles and refusing to interact that does.


----------



## rugby bloke (2 Aug 2016)

e-rider said:


> from the comments on here (not the OP) it sounds like the worst possible bike ride ever! I like riding on my own or with the club of up to 20 riders. I have done sportives in the past but found that such events tend to attract the worst kind of cyclists/people - this ridelondon sounds like all the bad parts of a sportive multiplied by 100


From my experiences I would say that these reports are picking out the more extreme examples of "nobbery". I've ridden it for the last 2 years and enjoyed both rides. Yes you get a mixture of speeds and abilities and yes you get the occasional sad wannebe. In general though, the vast majority of riders (25k !) are sensible and looking out for each other. The way the day panned out this year was unfortunate as it both condensed the field and then dumped a load of quicker riders behind slower riders after the slower riders were diverted around Leith Hill.
Its not perfect but as a mass participation event offering both the freedom of closed road cycling together with a significant distance challenge to most of us its really not bad.
I'm sure the organisers will be reviewing the issues thrown up this year before planning begins for next year's ride.


----------



## velovoice (2 Aug 2016)

I have just dipped into this thread to see if there was any update on the conditions of the two riders injured on Sunday... after wading through several pages of OT "my own experience" comparisons and games of one-up-man-ship (?!).... I still don't know! Please - does anyone have any new information, i.e. as of this morning?? Hope they're recovering swiftly. Bad enough another guy had a fatal heart attack on the ride.


----------



## Racing roadkill (2 Aug 2016)

Oddly, I didn't have any issues with the guys / gals draughting me, they all seemed to know what they were doing, my biggest gripe was with some toolbox trying to hero pass me as I sat up to warn the idiot, that I had a guy with an exploded tyre, about to deck out in front of me, so I was coming right, quickly. Rather than hold his position, he thought it was a great idea to squeeze past, I'm just sorry that the faller didn't spin out into him.


----------



## Racing roadkill (2 Aug 2016)

velovoice said:


> I have just dipped into this thread to see if there was any update on the conditions of the two riders injured on Sunday... after wading through several pages of OT "my own experience" comparisons and games of one-up-man-ship (?!).... I still don't know! Please - does anyone have any new information, i.e. as of this morning?? Hope they're recovering swiftly. Bad enough another guy had a fatal heart attack on the ride.


33 riders landed themselves in hospital, 2 are still in a 'serious' condition (the guy from the Pyrford smash, and the girl who had to have her head held still by a bystander) the others are in various states of disrepair.


----------



## huwsparky (2 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> @Husparky I didn't sit 2 inches off the back wheel of anyone for ovet 10 miles so I doubt I unnerved anyone for that long. Other folk sat on my wheel for a bit or past close momentarily which doesn't really bother me, its just some muppet doing it for over 10 miles and refusing to interact that does.


I can see where your coming form, I honestly can. But at the same time the chances of people getting on your nerves on this kind of ride is going to be significantly higher than your average ride.


----------



## velovoice (2 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> 33 riders landed themselves in hospital, 2 are still in a 'serious' condition (the guy from the Pyrford smash, and the girl who had to have her head held still by a bystander) the others are in various states of disrepair.


Thank you! Very sad.


----------



## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

e-rider said:


> this ridelondon sounds like all the bad parts of a sportive multiplied by 100


Well, it's much bigger than most. I've stopped doing sportives because I feel they're mismanaged, but Ride London is better than most because it's one of few that is held on closed roads and that tandems, trikes, recumbents and handcycles are permitted to enter.



rugby bloke said:


> the vast majority of riders (25k !) are sensible and looking out for each other


30k near as heck now.



velovoice said:


> does anyone have any new information, i.e. as of this morning?? Hope they're recovering swiftly.


No news that I can find. If I find them, I'll update the summary on page 5. The main new story now is that Robin Chard's fundraising page is approaching £50'000.


----------



## Lee_M (2 Aug 2016)

It might sound a terrible day, but despite the crashes and delays, and being diverted round Leith Hill because of the congestion (we were well within the time when they were supposed to put the diversion in) it was abso-fScking-lutely brilliant. 

I'm hoping I can do it next year and get Leith Hill ticked off.


----------



## Justinslow (2 Aug 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> View attachment 137187
> 
> 
> It happened right in front of that church on the hill, about a minute before we got there. It was caused by a bunch of knobbers 'chain ganging'. The Marshalls shouted at them to slow down, and if you look carefully, you can see the bright pink "caution" sign, on the left, by the start of the corner, but one of them clipped the kerb, and wrapped himself around a tree. He broke his neck.


That's exactly where we were waiting, 45 mins for us. When we rode past there was all manner of medical kit strewn around and the cops taking pictures of the bike and stuff. Very sobering experience, for a little while, then you have to put it to the back of your mind. It was possibly the first dicey bit of road- narrow, fast and a fairly tight bend.
Hope the guy is ok.


----------



## Justinslow (2 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I thought club members were expected to ride together.


We had a mixed club team entry, my mate and I put down 4.45 for our predicted time and we both got 7.38 starts, pretty much bang in the middle of the start times. I have no idea what the ladies in the team did as we never saw them. You do not have to ride as a team.


----------



## derrick (2 Aug 2016)

Justinslow said:


> We had a mixed club team entry, my mate and I put down 4.45 for our predicted time and we both got 7.38 starts, pretty much bang in the middle of the start times. I have no idea what the ladies in the team did as we never saw them. You do not have to ride as a team.


I got in through our club, we had a start time of 8-50. One of our team started at the right time don't know what happened to the others, but i got up earlier and jumped in for the 6-30 start, i think i did the right thing, i only got held up for about 10 mins in all. Did see a couple of people who crashed out but neither looked to serious, Would be interesting to know the causes of the accidents, as to whether they were self inflicted or caused by someone else doing something silly. I did only see one dick head doing it all wrong, he decided right at the last minute to pull into a feed station, No signal did not look over his shoulder just pulled straight across about six riders. they all managed to miss him,but wtf.


----------



## Stinboy (2 Aug 2016)

Lee_M said:


> It might sound a terrible day, but despite the crashes and delays, and being diverted round Leith Hill because of the congestion (we were well within the time when they were supposed to put the diversion in) it was abso-fScking-lutely brilliant.
> 
> I'm hoping I can do it next year and get Leith Hill ticked off.



Just out of interest, is it not possible to ride Leith Hill without it being part of a mass organised ride?


----------



## Racing roadkill (2 Aug 2016)

Lee_M said:


> It might sound a terrible day, but despite the crashes and delays, and being diverted round Leith Hill because of the congestion (we were well within the time when they were supposed to put the diversion in) it was abso-fScking-lutely brilliant.
> 
> I'm hoping I can do it next year and get Leith Hill ticked off.


That's the spirit. I managed to get to Leith whilst it was quiet this time. I only had to dodge 2 bike walkers, no one fell off in front of me on the steep bit, and only one clown stopped for his mate, in the middle of the road, on the dark steep bit of the descent, and I did spot him in time.


----------



## Fab Foodie (2 Aug 2016)

Bit late to this as am away without much interwebs and have not read all this thread. The guy who hit a tree is one of ours. I don't have any up to date news though of his condition.


----------



## Tim Hall (2 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bit late to this as am away without much interwebs and have not read all this thread. The guy who hit a tree is one of ours. I don't have any up to date news though of his condition.


Bugger. Hope it's not as bad as it's being painted.


----------



## jefmcg (2 Aug 2016)

There was a very serious collision that could have happened on Sunday evening. Richmond Park remained closed to traffic all day, and they hadn't collected the barriers. There was one left blocking the entire lane at the bottom of Sawyers Hill at the roundabout. People could really gun down there at dusk (60+kph segment on Strava) and the dull grey metal would be nearly invisible against the dull grey Road.

I moved it on to the grass, of course. 

Rang Richmond Park today, to let them know about this. Turns out the man who answered the phone was in charge of events. He made a note, then told me about Sunday. With the dualathlon RP has been running events like this for 7 or 8 years. This was the worst. They had real trouble getting Park visitors to respect the closed roads. I'm getting the feeling there will be a lot of introspection before they sign on again. No idea if they are committed already for next year. 

This reflects my experience hovering besides @vickster in Kingston


----------



## vickster (2 Aug 2016)

Stinboy said:


> Just out of interest, is it not possible to ride Leith Hill without it being part of a mass organised ride?


Yes but it's not unbusy with traffic, peds and cyclists

Probably OK at first light I spose

Although busy with cyclists and bike walkers, the newlands climb last year was far more pleasant without traffic, it's a pretty horrible road with cars and motorbikes


----------



## hopless500 (2 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bit late to this as am away without much interwebs and have not read all this thread. The guy who hit a tree is one of ours. I don't have any up to date news though of his condition.


A like for the information, not for the injured person


----------



## Justinslow (2 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Yes but it's not unbusy with traffic, peds and cyclists
> 
> Probably OK at first light I spose
> 
> Although busy with cyclists and bike walkers, the newlands climb last year was far more pleasant without traffic, it's a pretty horrible road with cars and motorbikes


You told me I wouldn't have to get out of the saddle on any hill on Ride London! I did near the summit of Leith hill, my 34/23 gearing was a touch difficult there and the only way I could keep the pedals turning nearing the top was to stand up  it was the only place though everywhere else was fine!


----------



## EltonFrog (2 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bit late to this as am away without much interwebs and have not read all this thread. The guy who hit a tree is one of ours. I don't have any up to date news though of his condition.



One of ours as in CC'er or as in Abingdon Wheeler? Either way I hope he/she is ok.


----------



## Fab Foodie (2 Aug 2016)

CarlP said:


> One of ours as in CC'er or as in Abingdon Wheeler? Either way I hope he/she is ok.


Sorry, an Abingdon Freewheeler and also an Outdoor Traders CC rider.


----------



## EltonFrog (2 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Sorry, an Abingdon Freewheeler and also an Outdoor Traders CC rider.



Oh Crap!


----------



## Mrs M (2 Aug 2016)

Hope they make a good recovery.


----------



## Lee_M (2 Aug 2016)

Stinboy said:


> Just out of interest, is it not possible to ride Leith Hill without it being part of a mass organised ride?


yebbut not if you live in north wales :-)


----------



## sleaver (2 Aug 2016)

On the RideLondon Facebook page, the person who crashed on the A25 has posted a picture of themselves on the Visitor Posts section along with an apology for holding people up. He doesn't look good but as we know, it could have been worse.


----------



## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

sleaver said:


> On the RideLondon Facebook page, the person who crashed on the A25 has posted a picture of themselves on the Visitor Posts section along with an apology for holding people up. He doesn't look good but as we know, it could have been worse.


I think that's the Wotton one. I've added a link to it from the summary on page 5. I now wonder if that's the same one @User482 reported?


----------



## sleaver (2 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> I think that's the Wotton one.


It is I think. I just looked at Google Maps and its the descent just after the pub on the right. I knew it was the A25, just didn't know the area around there had a name or what it was.


----------



## jefmcg (2 Aug 2016)

sleaver said:


> It is I think. I just looked at Google Maps and its the descent just after the pub on the right. I knew it was the A25, just didn't know the area around there had a name or what it was.


Can you link to the fb entry? The time stamp (eg "5 hours") should be a link you can put on here.


----------



## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Can you link to the fb entry? The time stamp (eg "5 hours") should be a link you can put on here.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1158864474173735&set=o.447755151909392&type=3


----------



## EltonFrog (2 Aug 2016)

Holy crap! That's not for the faint hearted.


----------



## sleaver (2 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Can you link to the fb entry? The time stamp (eg "5 hours") should be a link you can put on here.


I was going to, but then as @CarlP said



CarlP said:


> Holy crap! That's not for the faint hearted.



I know its been posted now, but I decided to give enough info for people to find it if they wished


----------



## User482 (2 Aug 2016)

I'm pretty sure that's the man I saw. I'm relieved that he's on the mend, as I feared the worst when I saw him lying on the road.


----------



## mark st1 (2 Aug 2016)

CarlP said:


> Holy crap! That's not for the faint hearted.



Your not wrong wow that's pretty mean


----------



## jefmcg (2 Aug 2016)

sleaver said:


> I know its been posted now, but I decided to give enough info for people to find it if they wished



I ad-block-plus the hell out of facebook, and never visit organisational pages, so don't have the facebook-fu to find it.


----------



## HLaB (2 Aug 2016)

Saw somebody I know down in Richmond Park and fortunately when we stopped he was mostly OK just messed up and just required a bit of stitching. I got stuck behind the major one before Leith, hope there OK too. I missed the second major one at the otherside of Leith, I'm guessing that's the bloke in the FB link, I hope he's already on the mend. I also passed a bloke near the end in central London fortunately he was sitting up and in the hands of a paramedic but he looked a mess too


----------



## sleaver (2 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> I ad-block-plus the hell out of facebook, and never visit organisational pages, so don't have the facebook-fu to find it.


That's fair enough  Hopefully the link posted after my post was helpful. 

I'm not sure where it was other than passed Leatherhead (I think) or if it's one that has been mentioned, but there was someone on the ground on the left hand side of the road with a Marshall and another rider moving people to the right. The emergency services hadn't got there yet but there was a woman laying on the ground with him keeping his neck still.


----------



## jefmcg (2 Aug 2016)

I mentioned it briefly on the other thread, but after I passed the ambulance on Kingston Bridge, a saw a minor collision. An official motorcycle, presumably clearing the way for the ambulance, turned across a rider (the riders had not been directed to stop) and clipped her wheel. She came down, but I was happy to see her shouting at the motorcycle, so she was ok


----------



## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

HLaB said:


> I also passed a bloke near the end in central London fortunately he was sitting up and in the hands of a paramedic but he looked a mess too


Take some comfort from the fact that I think we now know which were the three serious ones (Pyrford, Wotton and Walton) so anything else you saw must have been slight and looked worse than it was.


----------



## suzeworld (2 Aug 2016)

PK99 said:


> I hadn't realised that there were club entries treated in this way, sounds ripe for manipulation.


Erm -- manipulation of what? I am lost now --- sorry if it gets clearer in the next 7 pages.


----------



## PK99 (2 Aug 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Erm -- manipulation of what? I am lost now --- sorry if it gets clearer in the next 7 pages.



Point was fast club pace lines ploughing up through the field.

Want an extra 2 hours in bed? Put a slow time for your club group and get a later start time?

The seeding system relies on honest time estimates.


----------



## Cuchilo (3 Aug 2016)

PK99 said:


> Point was fast club pace lines ploughing up through the field.
> 
> Want an extra 2 hours in bed? Put a slow time for your club group and get a later start time?
> 
> The seeding system relies on honest time estimates.


I don't think there is a club rider in the land that would lie about their time to show them as slower


----------



## Fab Foodie (24 Aug 2016)

@User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...

It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.

Regs
FF


----------



## HLaB (24 Aug 2016)

:-(


----------



## coffeejo (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


Condolences to his family, friends and of course yourself.


----------



## rugby bloke (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


Terrible news, our thoughts are with his family and friends.


----------



## Bollo (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


That's awful news. There's nothing to say apart from condolences to all and sorry for the loss of a friend, Fab.


----------



## ianrauk (24 Aug 2016)

Very sad news.
Sorry to hear that Kev.


----------



## hopless500 (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


That's awful. Very sad news


----------



## mark st1 (24 Aug 2016)

Terrible  poor guy. Condolences to all concerned.


----------



## Arjimlad (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> One of those tumbles has resulted in the death of a club mate last night as a result of his injuries.



Very sorry to read that.


----------



## Tim Hall (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> One of those tumbles has resulted in the death of a club mate last night as a result of his injuries.


Damn. That's so sad.


----------



## EltonFrog (24 Aug 2016)

I'm so sorry what a terrible news. My condolences.


----------



## Racing roadkill (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


Oh, that's sad. The 'game' changes when it ends in death. RIP, and condolences to F&F.


----------



## zizou (24 Aug 2016)

sad news RIP


----------



## mjr (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.


May he rest in peace. 

Summary on page 5 updated. It might get updated later if more is published about Glen Caswell's recovery. Comments on the facebook photo suggest that he was taken out by another rider - and that RideLondon removed the post from their facebook page and haven't bothered to contact him to see how he's recovering :-/


----------



## Justinslow (24 Aug 2016)

Terrible news. So sorry to hear this. Was this the person who crashed at Pyford?


----------



## Mrs M (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


Very sad news. So sorry to hear this.


----------



## NorthernDave (24 Aug 2016)

So sorry to hear this truly awful news.


----------



## outlash (24 Aug 2016)

Sad news. My condolences to all concerned.


----------



## Fab Foodie (24 Aug 2016)

Justinslow said:


> Terrible news. So sorry to hear this. Was this the person who crashed at Pyford?


Don't know location, hit a tree.


----------



## EltonFrog (24 Aug 2016)

Unfortunately it was the crash at Pyford.


----------



## gavgav (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


That's awful. Condolences to all.


----------



## lutonloony (24 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


No real words I'm afraid, but thinking of all those affected by such sad news


----------



## raleighnut (24 Aug 2016)

Sad news FF.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (25 Aug 2016)

Slightly late but; condolences from me too. That's terribly sad news.


----------



## Simontm (25 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @User @mjr @CarlP a d others that enquirered here or elsewhere ...
> 
> It is with great sadness that I heard this morning that my club mate Richard died as a result of Injuries recieved during this event.
> 
> ...


Shite. Sorry to hear that. My thoughts with his family, friends and your club


----------



## Fab Foodie (5 Sep 2016)

http://m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1472...fun_loving__father_who_died_in_cycling_crash/


----------



## Fnaar (26 Jun 2017)

Fab Foodie said:


> http://m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1472...fun_loving__father_who_died_in_cycling_crash/


Just read this now @Fab Foodie. Doing the ride this year. RIP.


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Jun 2017)

Fnaar said:


> Just read this now @Fab Foodie. Doing the ride this year. RIP.


I was riding with someone who did the BHF L2B this year and I think there was also a fatality, it's not unusual. If you have several thousand people of differing levels of ability and group riding experience, it can happen. I'm sure you'll have a great and safe day out as will zillions of others. Just take it easy and be aware of what's around you.


----------

