# What touring bike could I get?



## rikitoun (6 Oct 2007)

Hello, I am new in this field of touring bike. I have got a mountain bike converted to touring. I have done the C2C, I really enjoy but I would like something ligther. 
I would like the bike for expedition and as well for training, so I have think in fast touring like AUDAX, but I do not know if you could load more than 20 kg in this kind of bike. 
Well, my budget is 1000-15000 pound. 
The list I have got is:
- Dawes Super Galaxy
- Dawes Ultra Galaxy.
- Dawes Audax Supreme.
- Trek 520.
- Cannondale Touring Classic.

I am so confused to decided. I would not like just to follow for the more expensive price. I would a fast and light bike, reliable and that it could load more than 20 kg for long expedition of 15 days around. 

Thanks a lot.


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## simoncc (6 Oct 2007)

I've got a Dawes Ultra Galaxy and it is a superb bike. Stiff, responsive, fast for a tourer when unloaded, well equipped and carries heavy loads very well. I've done 11,000 miles on my 2004 one, including quite a bit of off road and it has perfomed perfectly despite rough treatment. And Spa Cycles do them cheap - £900. I don't know about the other bikes, and for £1500 you could get many great tourers, but why spend more than you have to?

www.spacycles.co.uk


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## Tim Bennet. (6 Oct 2007)

For that sort of budget you will have lots of choice and should be able to get exactly what you want.

It is certainly worth considering Paul Hewitt's range of touring bikes. 

http://www.hewittcycles.co.uk/hewittcheviot 

They have consistantly done well in all the reviews and have been 'bike of the year' on several occaisions.

He also does Audax style bike and 26inch expedition bikes so there is plenty to choose from. He also does an excellent fitting service which loads of people have found to be the most important part of the bike buying process. 

There is no limitation as to the weight an Audax style frame can carry. The problem is that they use side pull brakes which limits the maximum size of tyre you can use (somewhere around 28 mm with mudguards). For heavier (camping?) touring you can really do with going bigger (32 mm+), and that's why full on tourers use cantilevers. Everything else can be pretty much the same.


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## rikitoun (6 Oct 2007)

Do you know from any website they will apply the free interest credit in 6 o 9 month? 

Thanks.


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## rikitoun (6 Oct 2007)

What do you think could be the best component (gear, shifter) for the touring bike? 
What small detail I should look up before buy the bike?
I would like to get a good bike without the necessity to upgrade.

What do you think between the trek 520 and the ultra galaxy.

I think I am between these 2 or do you think the Paul hewiit cheviot is better for price?
I just do not want to get disappointed after all. 

Thanks.


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## alfablue (7 Oct 2007)

I have a Dawes Audax (a 531 steel one 9 years old). It is a great ride, really comfy, and quite fast, however it doesn't like heavy pannier loads as the rear triangle flexes a lot under load. An aluminium one may not do this, but may also be less comfortable to ride. I am thinking of getting a steel Condor Heritage tourer (or maybe a Dawes Galaxy Ultra, 853 steel) to deal with loaded commuting and touring. At the moment I use my "roadified" Rock Lobster Titanium MTB for these duties (I fitted narrow slick tyres, mudguards, rack, rigid forks), but would like to return it to MTB spec when I get a dedicated tourer. The Audax is my "weapon of choice" for long day rides.


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## vernon (7 Oct 2007)

rikitoun said:


> Hello, I am new in this field of touring bike. I have got a mountain bike converted to touring. I have done the C2C, I really enjoy but I would like something ligther.
> I would like the bike for expedition and as well for training, so I have think in fast touring like AUDAX, but I do not know if you could load more than 20 kg in this kind of bike.
> Well, my budget is 1000-15000 pound.
> The list I have got is:
> ...



I use my Dawes Galaxy for Audaxing - 2700 km this year and long distance touring - LEJOG, JOGLE and Channel to the Med over the past three years.

I'd suggest that you eliminate the Dawes Audax from the choice - it isn't up to full touring loads.

If the Cannondale has 10 gears - I'd be wary. From my limited exposure to folks' opinions of them - the chain isn't up to the job and snaps regularly.

Speed is a relative thing. All of the shortlisted bikes will out-perform your current bike by a comfortable margin.


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## tomb1960 (7 Oct 2007)

I just want to endorse what Tim Bennet has said. Go and see Paul Hewitt, discuss with him exactly what it is you want and he will be able to build it for you. Ring up and make an appointment first, he is deservedly very busy. His attention to detail when he builds the bike is incredible. Consequently the finished articles are beauties to behold!


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## P.H (7 Oct 2007)

tomb1960 said:


> I just want to endorse what Tim Bennet has said. Go and see Paul Hewitt, discuss with him exactly what it is you want and he will be able to build it for you.



Number 3 for Paul Hewitt. It may be a bit dearer than some of your other options, but because it'll be exactly what you want it'll be worth it and probably cheaper in the long run.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (7 Oct 2007)

I ride a Daws Galaxy as well...see a pic in the sig link below. It has no problems with the loads. It cost me £650 new and I upgraded to a brookes saddle and spd pedals. I also ride a fair bit on it without loads and it's a good bike for that as well although it definatly isnt as fast as a racer roadbike.


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## rikitoun (7 Oct 2007)

I think I have choose the dawes ultra galaxy. In the evans website there is 2 type of ultra galaxy. The 2005 model is 800£ and the 2007 model 1000£. Do you think is worthy to get the 2007 model? I can not really see the difference between them. 

http://www.evanscycles.com/dept.jsp?dept_id=3401

Thanks.


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## Tim Bennet. (7 Oct 2007)

The 2005 model has caveats next to some of the parts saying that as this is an old model, Dawes reserve the right to fit any old bits.

There is also no indication of the front chainring sizes. Or rear block. Are the gears adequate for what you have in mind? Are you happy with STI shifter's? Many tourers prefer bar ends.

Also 'Erica' the Evans sizing wizard seems to have problems dealing with someone of even average height. Will you be confident this bike will fit you perfectly? Will someone at Evans spend 30 - 40 minutes with you on a jig getting everything just right? Will they swap the stem / bar widths & styles / crank lengths, etc plus give you a choice of tyres / frame colour / handle bar tape - type and colour, make of saddle / rack / pedals / extra braze-ons for frame pump / third bottle / dynamo, etc.

Will the wheels be handmade by one of the top wheel builders in the country? Will it be assembled by a completely obsessive, meticulous time served mechanical engineer?

If you really are considering a touring bike for around £1000 pounds, all the above comes as standard at Hewitts. A touring bike can easily last 20 -25 years. Taking some time to get it right is the best investment.


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## Chris James (7 Oct 2007)

I vaguely recall reading once about Evans supplying some form of Galaxay with 32 spoke rims, they ended up putting the caveat in due to that.

If that is the case then I would avoid to be honest. Google it to look in Bike Radar vaults.

The various Galaxies are still good bike though and good value form Spa (if you know what size you want etc)


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## ufkacbln (7 Oct 2007)

My wife has just updated to a Thorn Raven, I was impressed enough to order a "matching" Thorn Nomad.

Nice bikes, and from talking to owners, the Rohloff is a good touring system


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## Bigtallfatbloke (7 Oct 2007)

I dont think you need to spend £1000 on a dawes. You should really haggle on the price of a standard off the shelf new bike imho...I did and I saved a lot of cash. Bar end shifters work well so i wouldnt be put off by them if in deed that is the case. I think the upgrades I did (saddle and pedals) give me a bike as good as the ultra for a lot less total cash.

If I had £1000 to spend I would take the above advice and visit the Hewit place for a more personal fit.


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## User482 (8 Oct 2007)

I have a Thorn Audax (now badged as Audax "classic") which is used for my LEJOG last month. I found it to be supremely comfortable, totally reliable, and it has a decent turn of speed. Not suitable for heavy duty touring due to the pannier rack weight limit (10 kg I think). The best bit is that I picked up the frame & fork in mint condition for £75 off ebay! So I now have a bike that would cost £1500+ new, for around £500 all in. 

So keep an eye out on ebay - tourers tend to be very cheap.


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## alfablue (8 Oct 2007)

rikitoun said:


> I think I have choose the dawes ultra galaxy. In the evans website there is 2 type of ultra galaxy. The 2005 model is 800£ and the 2007 model 1000£. Do you think is worthy to get the 2007 model? I can not really see the difference between them.
> 
> http://www.evanscycles.com/dept.jsp?dept_id=3401
> 
> Thanks.


I have read threads from others on this forum where Evans have supplied the old model Galaxies with 32 spoke poorer quality wheels - instead of the original spec 36 inch wheels. Spa Cycles may be a more reliable place to buy a Galaxy from.


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## Danny (8 Oct 2007)

vernon said:


> I'd suggest that you eliminate the Dawes Audax from the choice - it isn't up to full touring loads.



Vernon and alphablue have made the same point about a Dawes Audax not being up to "a full touring load".

What sort of load would you typically expect a Dawes Audax - or other similar Audax bike - to be able to comfortably cope with? 

I wouldn't expect a bike like to be used to take a full load of camping gear, but always assumed you could carry a couple of panniers with enough gear for a tour where you were staying in B&Bs or hostels. 

I wasn't aware that Thorn Audax bikes had a 10kg limit, but should this be regarded as the typical weight limit for an Audax bike, or will it vary from make to make?

*NB* I appreciate that real audax riders would happily tour for weeks with just a saddle bag, but I like my creature comforts too much.


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## alfablue (8 Oct 2007)

I find the Audax isn't really up to commuting (one pannier with laptop, another with clothes, locks and papers). It isn't too bad, just some slight flex noticeable; but full-up touring is a no-no in my view. I think the 10kg limit is sensible.

My Audax is made of 531c tubes (c for competition), the galaxies of the same era were 531st (Super Tourist) tubes, so the same steel but sturdier tubes on the galaxy. I imagine a similar situation applies to current models.

I think your proposed uses are too broad for an Audax type bike, whereas a full tourer would do the range, though it wouldn't be the lightest, it would at least cope with everything. You could remove rack and other extras when you want to use it for light / fast duties, and possibly upgrade the wheels.


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## andy_wrx (8 Oct 2007)

Can I complicate the 'I want a light bike for audax/fast touring, vs I want a heavy bike for full-loaded touring` debate ?

How about the lighter spec bike but pulling a trailer - an Extrawheel or Bob Yak (or EBC copy).


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## User482 (8 Oct 2007)

alfablue said:


> I find the Audax isn't really up to commuting (one pannier with laptop, another with clothes, locks and papers). It isn't too bad, just some slight flex noticeable; but full-up touring is a no-no in my view. I think the 10kg limit is sensible.
> 
> My Audax is made of 531c tubes (c for competition), the galaxies of the same era were 531st (Super Tourist) tubes, so the same steel but sturdier tubes on the galaxy. I imagine a similar situation applies to current models.
> 
> I think your proposed uses are too broad for an Audax type bike, whereas a full tourer would do the range, though it wouldn't be the lightest, it would at least cope with everything. You could remove rack and other extras when you want to use it for light / fast duties, and possibly upgrade the wheels.



My Thorn Audax is 531C frame & 531 fork. It was absolutely perfect for my "credit card" lejog. It was fairly stable loaded up with 2 rear panniers, but I think camping touring is out of the question.


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## User482 (8 Oct 2007)

andy_wrx said:


> Can I complicate the 'I want a light bike for audax/fast touring, vs I want a heavy bike for full-loaded touring` debate ?
> 
> How about the lighter spec bike but pulling a trailer - an Extrawheel or Bob Yak (or EBC copy).



I suggest you go over to the CTC forum and look up "MickF". I think he did LEJOGLE (yes really!) on a fairly lightweight Mercian, & trailer.


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## rikitoun (10 Oct 2007)

I just being looking the thorn bike the exp (expedition). Next year I am going to make long riding (3 weeks or months) so I do not know if 26" wheels will be better than 700cc. What to do you think about this bike? I do not want to spend incredible amount of money, I just want the right bike for the goal I want. 
My travels will go fro different fields, road mainly, but could be a little bit of off road. I want to try ride to south America.
I want mainly to enjoy the travel not the bike I have get, but I want to minimize the problems could happen.
My bikes at the moment:

- Thorn exp (Derailleur)
- Dawes ultra galaxy.
- Paul Hewit.
Even I do not know if to keep my old MTB GT avalanche Alluminiun frame 7005, to buy good component gear and finish with my indecision and to think only in the more important thing; to ride and enjoy the experience.
What is your opinion?


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## Cathryn (11 Oct 2007)

I know very little technically but I believe that 26" wheels are easier to find inners/tyres/spares for on the continent. I've toured on both wheel sizes and haven't really noticed the difference, but I'm not that sophisticated a cyclist. 

Have you looked at Thorn bikes? I bought a second hand Thorn XTC (whose photo is on the photo gallery) and I love every fibre in its being. Admittedly, I'm about to take it to India touring next week, so I may have a different view when I get back!!!! I'll let you know,


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## Bigtallfatbloke (11 Oct 2007)

> I would get a Dawes Something, maybe an Ultra Galaxy, although I am happy with my Galaxy, and then spend the rest on panniers, lights and the other bits and pieces you need for a succesful tour.



That is what I did and I am happy I did.


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## Abitrary (12 Oct 2007)

Having done a couple of tours on the continent, and having seen what the continental tourers ride over there, I can only conclude that the british are being completely ripped off with all this 'pro steel tourer drop handlebar stuff' well, at least for continental needs.

You go over there and you see whole families touring, with babies and everything, *massive* tents on the back, prams.. the lot

And it's all done on big aluminium hybrid / mountainy bike things. The only brand I can draw a visual paralell with would be something like ridgeback


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## gwhite (12 Oct 2007)

^^^^^ Not sure I follow your reasoning. Why should the fact that some families lumber themselves with heavy bikes and camping gear, in some way mean that British tourers are being ripped off in preferring traditional touring bikes.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (12 Oct 2007)

> You go over there and you see whole families touring, with babies and everything, *massive* tents on the back, prams.. the lot



yeah but have you see the size of European womens thighs??


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## Danny (12 Oct 2007)

Trust BTFB to find a link between aluminium frames and women's thighs.

Anyway, getting back to an earlier point in this thread, how do you know if your rear triangle is "flexing" under weight. I am not sure if I have ever had this problem on my traditional steel tourer, but then I might not be able to spot it if I did.

The other day I carried six bottles of wine home in my panniers, I did not feel any kind of sway - at least until I started drinking them.


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## alfablue (12 Oct 2007)

Dannyg said:


> Trust BTFB to find a link between aluminium frames and women's thighs.
> 
> Anyway, getting back to an earlier point in this thread, how do you know if your rear triangle is "flexing" under weight. I am not sure if I have ever had this problem on my traditional steel tourer, but then I might not be able to spot it if I did.
> 
> The other day I carried six bottles of wine home in my panniers, I did not feel any kind of sway - at least until I started drinking them.



My Audax has very skinny tubes at the rear triangle, similar to what you might find on a race bike. When I put the power down when fully loaded I feel the flex or sway, and it slightly upsets the handling. Its not the rack or panniers, they are very well secured. On my Ti bike this doesn't happen. Neither should irt happen on any standard tourer, but this particular Dawes Audax (1998 vintage) is prone to it - which is fair enough, they are only intended for light touring.


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## Abitrary (12 Oct 2007)

gwhite said:


> ^^^^^ Not sure I follow your reasoning. Why should the fact that some families lumber themselves with heavy bikes and camping gear, in some way mean that British tourers are being ripped off in preferring traditional touring bikes.



I just don't see why people go for bikes that will cost them 3 times a decent lightish, hybrid that's probably more wise and capable than a 30 year old steel road bike. The minute you start putting luggage on a bike you should start taking your power to weight ratio less seriously.


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## snorri (12 Oct 2007)

rikitoun said:


> I just want the right bike for the goal I want.
> What is your opinion?



My opinion is, and please do not take offence, you do not really know what you want. I have been in the same quandary myself at times.
You ask for a light fast bike for carrying a heavy load, but these requirements are contradictory, you will never get the "right " bike. You are just going to have to make a purchase and see to what extent the chosen bike fulfils your requirements. After a year or so you can assess the situation and decide to keep it, or trade it in for a lighter or heavier bike. Or do what most people do and just buy another bike, and keep buying bikes until your storage space is full.


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## Abitrary (13 Oct 2007)

snorri said:


> *My opinion is, and please do not take offence*, you do not really know what you want. I have been in the same quandary myself at times.
> You ask for a light fast bike for carrying a heavy load, but these requirements are contradictory, you will never get the "right " bike. You are just going to have to make a purchase and see to what extent the chosen bike fulfils your requirements. After a year or so you can assess the situation and decide to keep it, or trade it in for a lighter or heavier bike. Or do what most people do and just buy another bike, and keep buying bikes until your storage space is full.



Don't believe that, snorri is a bit of a trouble maker, apparent already after his / her / its scant introductory posts

But yes, you can do whatever you want. You can go round the world on a skateboard with a rucksack, and if the skate board breaks you can walk

It's the same with bikes. Just get out there. Tour around china on a carbon time trial bike with paniers


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## snorri (13 Oct 2007)

Abitrary said:


> Don't believe that, snorri is a bit of a trouble maker, apparent already after his / her / its scant introductory posts



Anyone who has perused cycle forums will know there is no connection between quantity and quality of postings from individual posters.


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## Brock (13 Oct 2007)

Abitrary said:


> I just don't see why people go for bikes that will cost them 3 times a decent lightish, hybrid that's probably more wise and capable than a 30 year old steel road bike. The minute you start putting luggage on a bike you should start taking your power to weight ratio less seriously.



Longer wheelbase for a start. If I panniered up some cheapo ally hybrid the heels on my enormo-feet would be constantly fouling my back bags.


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## Abitrary (13 Oct 2007)

Brock said:


> Longer wheelbase for a start. If I panniered up some cheapo ally hybrid the heels on my enormo-feet would be constantly fouling my back bags.



I'm sure that if you spend *2* saturdays going round some bike shops, you'll find something that accomodates your feet, er, footprint.

But will cost you 3 times as less. Will be a lot more robust, and a lot more comfortable.

If you are going to get into the welding options of steel bikes, then take it to the christians on the CTC forums


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## snorri (14 Oct 2007)

Abitrary said:


> But will cost you 3 times as less.



Eh:?:
Is it not time for you to be tucked up in bed.


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## P.H (14 Oct 2007)

Abitrary said:


> Having done a couple of tours on the continent, and having seen what the continental tourers ride over there, I can only conclude that the british are being completely ripped off with all this 'pro steel tourer drop handlebar stuff' well, at least for continental needs.
> 
> You go over there and you see whole families touring, with babies and everything, *massive* tents on the back, prams.. the lot
> 
> And it's all done on big aluminium hybrid / mountainy bike things. The only brand I can draw a visual paralell with would be something like ridgeback



Tout-terrain
Maxx
Germans Cycles
Fahrrad Manufaktur
Koga-Miyata
Rotor
KTM
CB Campus
Stolz

A quick look at any of the touring bikes offered by the above manufacturers would show that although you're right about the style of bike preferred by continental tourers, you're wrong about the amount of money spent.
I haven't seen anyone suggest you need to spend that much to go touring. Enthusiasts of all sorts will often spend extra for a specialised product, only they can say whether it's worth it.


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## Brock (14 Oct 2007)

Abitrary said:


> I'm sure that if you spend *2* saturdays going round some bike shops, you'll find something that accomodates your feet, er, footprint.
> 
> But will cost you 3 times as less. Will be a lot more robust, and a lot more comfortable.
> 
> If you are going to get into the welding options of steel bikes, then take it to the christians on the CTC forums



I wasn't going to get into the emergency roadside rural blacksmith welding options of steel bikes, always found that idea a bit odd.

I'd question your idea that a 300 quid hybrid would be 'a lot more comfortable' than a high end tourer, what are you basing that on? And 'more robust'? In which areas?

You're right to imply, of course, that it's perfectly possible to tour happily on any bike you can strap your gear onto. I'm sure I could tour on a raleigh shopper and get just as much from the adventure, but if I was about to set out on that 300 quid hybrid for an extended tour I'd be tempted to upgrade to a new saddle, better quality wheels (I do so hate replacing spokes at the roadside), good quality racks, more hard wearing tyres, decent brake blocks, I'd probably have to lash on some extra bottle bosses, etc etc.. Or I could just spend a bit more and get what I wanted off the shelf.
By the way, my tourer is a hand-me-down which I paid nothing for, and the girlfriend tours happily on a german city bike which cost about 400 quid, so I agree with what you're saying to some extent.
I did pay a buttload for my tent though, when I could've just slept under a plastic sheet really.


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## stevew (18 Oct 2007)

Another vote for the Hewitt


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## Cycling Naturalist (24 Oct 2007)

I saw a Dawes Kara-kum in the LBS and was rather intrigued by the handlebars.

http://www.dawescycles.com/dawes/kara-kum.htm

Has anyone any experience of them?


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## cycleofdesperation (5 Apr 2012)

Hi,
I just joined this thing - interested to see the conversation about light tourer vs audax (my own current dilemma) ... and I currently own a Kara Kum with butterfly bars. I'd encourage anyone to try the bike and the bars. I found the bars much better than flat bars in terms of variety of positions over longer rides and the upright position easier for city travel. If I had bought one that was the right frame size to start with I'd probably hold on to it for the sort of touring and day outings I'm doing. Mind you it was a bit of an effort to keep up on the only Audax (100km)I tried it on - I didnt quite manage to finish before some of the 200km contestants got back. So if its speed you are after...not the KaraKum
Still ... back to the search for properly fitting upgrade - Thorn (yep ... yes but it would be nice to try before you buy) UtraGalaxy (the default option but I can't bear the current 'retro' finish), Spa Cycles (good reviews and 2/3 of their customers from the CTC site think they are sliced-bread-good with top products, reliable informative service, good prices etc while perhaps the other 1/3 complain or so of wheels and bits not being properly put together, delays and maybe not always receiving gold star customer service in response to any problems or complaints. If I didnt live so far from Harrogate I might still give them a try.)


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## Camrider (5 Apr 2012)

cycleofdesperation said:


> Thorn (yep ... yes but it would be nice to try before you buy)


 
If you can't get to Bridgwater you do also get a 100 day money back option which makes a Thorn bike pretty risk free purchase. A Sherpa can be built to your own spec rather than taking what comes with an off the peg Galaxy.


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## middleagecyclist (7 Apr 2012)

User said:


> Often referred to as 'butterfly bars'. They're quite common on bikes on the Continent.
> 
> After an accident a few years ago I go a Kettler (German make) which had them, specifically so that I could continue cycling whilst my shoulder was repaired (this took three and a half years and five rounds of surgery). Having the butterfly bars was great - they can be put at different angles and allow a myriad of hand positions, meaning that my shoulder was less likely to seize up. I understand that they are becoming more common on tourers for the same reason - when you're in the saddle all day being able to change your position fairly frequently makes life easier.


 
I love my butterfly bars!


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## Banjo (7 Apr 2012)

It would be interesting to know how the OP is getting on with his bike,He has had it for 5 years now


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