# Pedals and shoes, help please!



## Jo25 (4 May 2008)

Hi,

I am very new to cycling and even newer to this forum, so I hope you will forgive me this very basic question!

I have a Trek 7200 hybrid bike which I use to commute to work (only about 3 miles but VERY hilly) I need to buy some new trainers and was wondering whether to go for cycling shoes instead, but I am totally confused by the terminology and knowing what would work with my bike and whether it is worth buying new pedals too. Can anyone give me some advice and explain the whole SPD, cleats, clipless stuff please?

Cheers!


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## Aperitif (5 May 2008)

Hello Jo25 - what Mr Paul said. 

Tea? Coffee? Get yourself into the café and feast on the cakes of life to be found there.


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## Brock (5 May 2008)

Those shoes are a bargain at that price. SJS cycles do shimano double sided SPD pedals for £15.99 + delivery which makes them a cheaper option if you don't need a flat side for normal shoes.

The term 'clipless' refers confusingly to a pedal you can clip into with cleats on the soles of your shoes. It refers to the fact that the pedal has no toe clips and straps.
'SPD' is a Shimano standard, and probably the clipless system most suited to your needs. You get 'cleats' which come with the pedals, and screw into the bottom of the shoe, recessed so you can walk comfortably. You engage them by pushing the foot forward and down onto the pedal, and release by twisting the ankle outward. The force needed to release your foot from the pedal can be adjusted by way of a screw on the pedal itself.
At first it seems a bit scary having your feet clipped into the pedals, and at some point you'll almost certainly have a 'clipless moment' where you forget to disengage and topple over embarrassingly. The benefit though is well worth it, being able to power the pedal through its entire circle makes your cycling more efficient and hills easier. It's safer too, since your feet will never slip from the pedals.

Welcome to the forum!


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## Jo25 (5 May 2008)

Hi,

Thanks very much to all of you for the advice, I will order some shoes and pedals asap. 

I wonder if you could help with something else, as I said I am trying to use the bike for the commute to work and I have a 525ft rise in height in about 1/2 a mile (it is also immediately I get out my front door) and unfortunately I am finding it hard to get the motivation to stick at it. Is there anything you can suggest that may help me to find the first hilly bit less painful? As I live in a valley, there aren't really any flat rides that I can do round here.

Cheers


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## marinyork (5 May 2008)

I got the PD-M324s the other day infact. I thought even the flat side was an improvement tbh. I'm yet sadly to find any cycling shoes that cheap locally though or any I particularly liked .


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## marinyork (5 May 2008)

As for the Hills Jo25, it'll take some time. Try 100-200ft of it at first, stay seated pedal in a low gear as fast as you can whilst keeping it smooth and breath as steadily as possible. Over the space of a few weeks it'll improve and you may even feel ready to give the full hill a bash. 

When I moved here where it's very hilly I found a 150ft climb to practise on and the bigger 600ft climbs are possible now.


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## spandex (5 May 2008)

Yep just keep at it it dose get better


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## Bigtallfatbloke (5 May 2008)

Those shoes look pretty good for touring as well...how stiff are they on the bike?? I have some nike walkable road shoes which look more like road shoes than these and are very stiff on the bike (I love 'em) but off the bike although they are comfy and definatly walkable, I would not want to walk any long distances in them.

I thought I might try these others...are they strong enough for when Ipull hard up on the pedals??


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## Jo25 (5 May 2008)

I've just placed an order for the shoes and some pedals, I went for a cheaper version of the pedals:
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...2&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003154c003147c003261
let's hope I don't regret it! 

I will let you know how I get on with both. 

Just been out for another go up the hil and made it all the way with only feeling like I was going to die twice! I think before I was trying to get it over with as fast as I could whereas this time tried to remember your advice marinyork and took it very slow and steady, bring on the workdays so I can go again!


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## marinyork (5 May 2008)

Strangely enough those shoes are one of the pairs I tried to get hold of, so I'm quite pleased User thinks they are quite good. Is it true that you have to size up one size with Shimano?


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

I'd personally recommend getting double-sided pedals, like these
They're much better than single sided ones as you won't have trouble flipping them over to get to the correct side, and as a beginner, you won't be tempted to take the lazy option and use the flat side (as you won't be able to). More over, you won't ever be caught in the extremely disconcerting trap of cycling along with one pedal on the clip side and one pedal on the flat side.
The above pedals rule. they are very easy to clip into, and out of.

As far as shoes go, ones with velcro straps are going to be a lot better than ones with fiddly laces that might get caught places.


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## col (5 May 2008)

Jo25 said:


> I've just placed an order for the shoes and some pedals, I went for a cheaper version of the pedals:
> http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...2&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003154c003147c003261
> let's hope I don't regret it!
> 
> ...




Hi jo25,it will get easier,i have a similar problem,though nowhere near as steep as yours,it doesnt matter which way i go,i always have the hill to get home,or up the other side if im going to work,like MY has said,take your time,and get used to it,you will be flying up it before you know it.


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## Brock (5 May 2008)

bonj said:


> I'd personally recommend getting double-sided pedals, like these
> They're much better than single sided ones as you won't have trouble flipping them over to get to the correct side, and as a beginner, you won't be tempted to take the lazy option and use the flat side (as you won't be able to). More over, you won't ever be caught in the extremely disconcerting trap of cycling along with one pedal on the clip side and one pedal on the flat side.
> The above pedals rule. they are very easy to clip into, and out of.
> 
> As far as shoes go, ones with velcro straps are going to be a lot better than ones with fiddly laces that might get caught places.



What's the point of the big plasticky surround on those?

Do agree about the velcro straps, although I always tucked the laces in satisfactorily on the MT20Ds. Nice shoes.


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## Brock (5 May 2008)

marinyork said:


> Strangely enough those shoes are one of the pairs I tried to get hold of, so I'm quite pleased User thinks they are quite good. Is it true that you have to size up one size with Shimano?



I normally take a size 11 shoe, I got Shimano size 47 which is equivalent to 12 apparently and they're about perfect if I don't wear thick socks. Any tighter and I'd be in trouble. Perhaps you could try some other Shimano shoe locally just to get a feeling for their sizing?


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

Brock said:


> What's the point of the big plasticky surround on those?
> 
> Do agree about the velcro straps, although I always tucked the laces in satisfactorily on the MT20Ds. Nice shoes.



just like the feel of it better than 520s, hard to describe really - it sort of guides your foot towards the clip-in bit if you miss slightly.


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

btw Jo, you want them quite tight. If they're for summer shoes don't try them with thick socks if you're going to be always wearing think socks with them. If you've ever tried cycling in loose shoes you'll realise how annoying it is


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## Night Train (5 May 2008)

This has been a useful thread, I searched for shoes and found this thread as it started and have been following it. I want to go to my LBS and try on some shoes first to get the right fit. I don't know what a good fit is anymore as I have spent the last 15 years only wearing steel toe boots for everything.


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## marinyork (5 May 2008)

I do think bonj might have a point about the ones he recommended, when I saw the 520s in person I thought they were amazingly small and fiddly, a cage around it makes sense to me.

Thanks for the shoe size info Brock. I intend to try some shimano shoes, only the two nearest bike shops don't stock them at all.


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## fossyant (5 May 2008)

For the hill, as it's right out side your door, if you have the gears, start off in a low gear - i.e. your speed will be low if you pedal at about 80-90 rpm. You need to warm up, so take the hill easy until warm, then start to shift the gears down. It's the same if starting on the flat - take it easy at first, warm up, then give it some.

Do you have triple chain rings (the cogs at the front by the pedals - are there three sets)...this will make things easier !


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

> Have you ever tried the pedals bonj? No, I didn't think so.
> 
> They're no trouble to flip over, you can use both sides with spd shoes on, and they give you more options.
> 
> Additionally, they are about the only clipless pedals that you can fix reflectors to and stay legal (and more visible) at night.



YES I HAVE tried them and they are a NIGHTMARE.
You may have got the knack of them, but I found them a pain in the arse.
Just because YOU like them and have got used to them doesn' mean a beginner is going to find them particularly easy to use.


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## tdr1nka (5 May 2008)

bonj said:


> I found them a pain in the arse.



I'm tempted to question your riding position.



bonj said:


> doesn' mean a beginner is going to find them particularly easy to use.



I did!

But dunno if changing over from toeclips(which I had to flip the pedals to engage anyway)made it any easier?


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

> Additionally, they are about the only clipless pedals that you can fix reflectors to



Why would you want to fix reflectors to them ?


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## tdr1nka (5 May 2008)

bonj said:


> Why would you want to fix reflectors to them ?



Warning to all cyclists, some road laws will apply.


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## bonj2 (5 May 2008)

give me strength


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## Brock (6 May 2008)

bonj said:


> just like the feel of it better than 520s, hard to describe really - it sort of guides your foot towards the clip-in bit if you miss slightly.



And it's worth paying over 30 quid more for a pedal that's heavier and bulkier because it 'sort of guides your foot' ?

I don't understand what it means by 'pop up bindings' either, where does what pop up from, when?


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## HJ (6 May 2008)

> Bonj
> 
> Feel free to continue being an idiot in soapbox. That's what it's there for.
> 
> But please do try to keep your buffoonery in there. This is Beginners. It's where people -especially newbies who we should be welcoming and encouraging- ask questions and want fair replies, not your idiocy.



People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones, Bonj is entitled to to express his opinions just as anyone else, so stop the bullying now, it gives really bad impression.


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## Steve Austin (6 May 2008)

Over here please
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39


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## bonj2 (6 May 2008)

> Bonj
> 
> Feel free to continue being an idiot in soapbox. That's what it's there for.
> 
> But please do try to keep your buffoonery in there. This is Beginners. It's where people -especially newbies who we should be welcoming and encouraging- ask questions and want fair replies, not your idiocy.



Shut it.
If you give them advice that I consider might not be the best for them, or wrong advice, or even just advice that I think could be embellished upon or put into context or accompanied by another point of view, then I'll jolly well step forward and give them that other point of view or correct you where I think you're wrong.

I'm biting my tongue here, because I could continue this argument more strongly, but it would be by laying into you in a way that would possibly be hurtful, and I think you're a fairly sound bloke so I don't _really_ want to to that. But if you feel the need to try to stand in my way further, then go right ahead and I'll damn well come out with it (but do it in the appropriate forum if you must pursue it).




> I'll repeat what I said earlier. Beginners is where people ask questions. They deserve informed answers, based on experience and knowledge.



They _don't_ deserve received wisdom, or to only hear the 'standard' accepted response.
What beginners want is a breadth of viewpoints, in order that they can pick the one that they think will work best for them. Usually that involves lots of people recommending different things for different reasons, they also want to hear the pros and cons of different pieces of kit from as many different people as possible. Don't make the mistake of assuming the perception that Beginners = Stupid/Naive.
If you've used the pedals I recommend, then I'd be more than welcome for you to point out the disadvantages of them, but for some reason, it seems you don't like it when this is reciprocated. If you want to go on telling me I haven't ever had any experience in using single-sided SPD pedals, then go right ahead, and like I say I'll tell you exactly what I think of my cycling experience in comparison to yours, but as I've said, it's probably very unproductive of me to do so, so please don't make me.


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## tdr1nka (6 May 2008)

Right then Luvvies, OK.
Lets all get back OT, Bonj, I think it's your answer to Brock's post No.29 coming up next?

And...............cue.


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## bonj2 (7 May 2008)

Brock said:


> And it's worth paying over 30 quid more for a pedal that's heavier and bulkier because it 'sort of guides your foot' ?
> 
> I don't understand what it means by 'pop up bindings' either, where does what pop up from, when?



easier to clip into for me personally, and if you miss you're still more likely to have a stable footing until you do manage to clip in. If you're not an MTBer I wouldn't expect you to understand. Extra few grams not an issue, extra £30 not an issue.


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## Brock (8 May 2008)

Ah ok, so you would'nt advise them for me then, not being an MTBer?


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## Jo25 (8 May 2008)

Thanks for all the advice about shoes, pedals and the hill. I have done the hill 4 days in a row now, taking the advice about just taking it slow and steady and while I wouldn't say it is getting easier yet, it is at least bearable!

I received the shoes yesterday and just wanted to ask about the fitting of them, they are quite tight (any tighter and they would definitely be sent back) and was wondering if anyone knew if they are likely to have some give in them and is it just a case of wearing them in a bit? 

Not tried the pedals yet, waiting till the weekend for that


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## marinyork (8 May 2008)

How do you find the 324s? I've yet to find some shoes I like for them so not tried the spd side but I have to say my feet have come off the pedals more times in the last week than the previous thousands of miles on the other pedals.


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## Jo25 (8 May 2008)

Didn't get the 324s, went for a cheaper version (which I realise may be a false economy) 
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwP...c003147c003261

Haven't tried them yet, will do that at the weekend when I have a bit more time and can hopefully find a flatter area, as I don't fancy my first attempt at clipless being on the big hill with traffic! I will let you know how I get on tho.


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## bonj2 (8 May 2008)

Brock said:


> Ah ok, so you would'nt advise them for me then, not being an MTBer?



the 647s you mean? Well I wouldn't advise _against_ them, but for me, personally, if you're not regularly having to set off on rough terrain then the advantage over 520s is limited.


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## marinyork (11 May 2008)

Knee is somewhat knackered after yesterdays ride so thought it a perfect opportunity to go to a couple of bike shops. Got some road shoes as I liked them and went clipless tonight (really I should have rested but who cares it's too exciting). So far I don't have any problems whatsoever clipping out of them, that's so far been very easy but clipping in!!!!!!!!!!! Also for some very odd reason the left leg finds it fairly easy clipping in now but the right leg still cannot do it that well!? The other thing of notice is you can get as much pull up sometimes as I was getting pushdown before sometimes. Other than that the whole experience seems much smoother and I immediately switched to much lower gears .


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## Mclarent (11 May 2008)

I have a quick question for y'all, i have a pedal decision to make! I have my first proper road bike on order, a Bianchi, which i'm planning to use for a duathlon and a few long rides at the weekend. It comes with shimano spd touring pedals. Question is, should i bother upgrading the pedals? At the moment i have a pair of spd shoes, so not sure if its worth the extra cash for both pedals and shoes - was considering Shimano Ultegra (spd-sl) pedals, which I can source for not much extra cash. In terms of distance, Duathlon is 20k and I'm looking to do rides of 40-60km at the weekends for training and pleasure. Might also think about a commute of about 10k. When people talk about hot spots, do they mean that there are areas of my feet that will get hotter if I use SPDs? I'm also wondering about weight, for the type of riding I'm talking about am I stupid to worry about that?


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## bonj2 (11 May 2008)

with spds as opposed to spd-sl it's just that the weight's concentrated over a slightly smaller area so slightly more pressure. For me it's more noticeable when coasting out of the saddle. But you've got to try the SPDs really.


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## Jo25 (14 May 2008)

Hi,

Just thought I'd give a brief update in case anyone was interested - sent the Shimano shoes back as they were uncomfortably tight and had no problem fitting and using the flat side of the pedals. They didn't have the shoes in the next size up so went for Specialzed Taho shoes, which arrived today, fit well and look fairly good too. Have had a little go with the clipless pedals and as MY said, getting out of them is no problem but finding clipping in quite difficult! Guess it's just a case of practice and need a flat space to do that really, so if you see a strange women cycling round the supoermarket car park at the weekend clipping and unclipping that will be me!


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## John the Monkey (14 May 2008)

Jo25 - my own experiences as a newbie with clipless pedals (SPDs) are here, as is some good advice from other forum members- I found my first trips were easier with one clipless pedal and one flat. For what it's worth, the SPDs feel more natural than flat pedals now...

McLarent - I use both SPD and SPD-SL (I change the pedals over for the weekend). SPDs are great for the commute, as I have to walk through the train station, and to the start of the bike path at one end. 

The SPD-SLs are more comfortable after an hour or so of riding (for me). 

Clipping out of the pedal is no more difficult in either system (imo - I use M520 SPD pedals with SH-51 cleats, and Ultegra SPD-SL pedals with yellow (6 deg. float) cleats). I do find clipping into the SPD-SL pedals a bit harder (you have to sort of "hook" the pedal, and then push down) but I've not used them as much, so that could just be lack of practice. I've bored everyone with my experiences of it all in this thread.


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## Jo25 (15 May 2008)

Cheers for theat John, interesting to read other peoples experiences. I hope my clipless moments come in the deserted supermarket car park!


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## John the Monkey (15 May 2008)

Jo25 said:


> I hope my clipless moments come in the deserted supermarket car park!



Folklore says that the more people witness it, the less likely it is to happen again... 

It is worth the effort - they're hugely more efficient than flats, and your feet will feel much more secure in wet weather.


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## Lone Rider (15 May 2008)

I also asked a question about hills and got a lot of very useful advice her : http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12433


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## Jo25 (15 May 2008)

Lone Rider said:


> I also asked a question about hills and got a lot of very useful advice her : http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12433



Thanks, I have been following that thread with interest - and the advice has been very helpful, haven't done the hill for 2 days now due to resting a hurting knee and the downpour this morning (no waterproofs - when I get some I will try my best not just to be a fairweather cyclist!) and am almost missing it!


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## Milo (15 May 2008)

I just went clipless today.
Wish I had done it sooner got MTB pedels and shoes so I can walk.


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## marinyork (15 May 2008)

Jo25 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just thought I'd give a brief update in case anyone was interested - sent the Shimano shoes back as they were uncomfortably tight and had no problem fitting and using the flat side of the pedals. They didn't have the shoes in the next size up so went for Specialzed Taho shoes, which arrived today, fit well and look fairly good too. Have had a little go with the clipless pedals and as MY said, getting out of them is no problem but finding clipping in quite difficult! Guess it's just a case of practice and need a flat space to do that really, so if you see a strange women cycling round the supoermarket car park at the weekend clipping and unclipping that will be me!



I didn't like the shimano shoes in terms of fit, looks of functionality either, nearly bought specialized but they were a bit too much for me. I should probably do a bit more practice in supermarkets. I've found I can keep the weaker leg clipped in (right leg) at lights pretty easily and then clip in the other and wizz off into the distance. So far the SPDs have been very promising doing a few hill climbs and mile sprints on them and got pretty favourable speeds on both for me.


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## bonj2 (16 May 2008)

Why is it that pretty much everyone seems to unclip their left foot at lights, while I seem to be the only one to unclip right? My left foot stays clipped in from start to finish.


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## Steve Austin (16 May 2008)

Not like you to be different from everyone else Bonj 

Its to do with your chocolate foot. ie your strongest leg


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## John the Monkey (16 May 2008)

bonj said:


> Why is it that pretty much everyone seems to unclip their left foot at lights, while I seem to be the only one to unclip right? My left foot stays clipped in from start to finish.



+1

I've heard several reasons for unclipping the left - you don't fall in traffic if you have a clipless moment, you can rest your foot on the kerb etc. I found it didn't feel right at all for me, so stuck with the foot I put down when using flats.


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## Jo25 (16 May 2008)

marinyork said:


> I didn't like the shimano shoes in terms of fit, looks of functionality either, nearly bought specialized but they were a bit too much for me. I should probably do a bit more practice in supermarkets. I've found I can keep the weaker leg clipped in (right leg) at lights pretty easily and then clip in the other and wizz off into the distance. So far the SPDs have been very promising doing a few hill climbs and mile sprints on them and got pretty favourable speeds on both for me.




I could ony get the Specialized as they were on sale at Evans.

http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp;jsessionid=0363CE5300393D61A7979E718A813CC0.tc7?style=21135


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## Nick1979 (16 May 2008)

marinyork said:


> I didn't like the shimano shoes in terms of fit, looks of functionality either, nearly bought specialized but they were a bit too much for me.



So which shoes did you end up buying?
I think of going clipless (or 'half-clipless', as in M324!) myself and tried the Taho (guy version) at my local Evans, really nice shoes, very comfy, nice look, but a bit pricey just for my fairweather only Sunday ride!


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## custardpie (16 May 2008)

What a great thread! Am considering clipless pedals and shoes myself, having toe clips - no probs getting my feet out but I am often to be seen with one foot in and one on the flat side (usually left!) and the toe clip scraping along the ground while frantic wobbling goes on as I try and sort myself out! Can anyone recommend a budget shoe that is fairly wide at the front - think it will be SPD style as I ride a Trek hybrid. 

Hills - hate them with a vengeance, but will try the tips suggested in these threads!


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## John the Monkey (16 May 2008)

Custardpie, if you're buying shoes and pedals in one go, Merlin Cycles do SPD shoe and M520 bundles - (I got my MT41 and M520s there) you can usually end up saving a bit over the cost of buying both separately.


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## custardpie (16 May 2008)

John the Monkey said:


> Custardpie, if you're buying shoes and pedals in one go, Merlin Cycles do SPD shoe and M520 bundles - (I got my MT41 and M520s there) you can usually end up saving a bit over the cost of buying both separately.



Thanks - will have a look


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## Jo25 (16 May 2008)

Chain Reaction Cycles have got some pretty good deals at the moment too - and you usually receive the stuff the next day.


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## marinyork (16 May 2008)

Sadly I don't have a local evans so I had to go somewhere else. I bought some road shoes called polaris. When I say more expensive the specialized at the place I went to were £80-130. I'd say most of the ones I tried on were good or all right but the shimano seemed to be made for people with little spacemen feet and were upto 2 sizes out!

Got up lateish this morning so was in a rush and biked in when I wasn't going to and slaughtered the commute taking 5 mins off whilst still being held up by traffic in several locations. Didn't even feel particularly knackered either although got a bit of helmet overheat was the only affect.


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## twowheelsgood (16 May 2008)

If i were to give one bit of advice, it would be to go for a touring shoe with the three velco straps and not laces. I have an old Nike pair which were about £30.

They are much easier to get in and out of and to adjust so they hold your foot properly. Plus no laces to get tangled up either.


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