# Watch out for other cyclists



## annedonnelly (21 Nov 2021)

Normally I worry about being whacked from behind by a car. I woke up in hospital on Wednesday with various injuries apparently having been hit from behind by another cyclist. It's probably good that I have no memory from slightly before the incident on Tuesday morning. I've various injuries including broken ribs, broken collar bone, two broken vertebrae and I now have lots of metal work in my knee. The bruising is pretty impressive now.







I haven't seen the bike but it's pretty bashed too. Going to be off my feet for at least six weeks


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## classic33 (21 Nov 2021)

Did the other cyclist at least stop?

Forget the bike, worry about getting yourself back in working order. Then you can bother about the bike. Spare parts for you are harder come by.

Are you still in hospital or at home?


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## Slick (21 Nov 2021)

Nightmare, heal quickly.


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## lazybloke (21 Nov 2021)

Oh my god...

That's one hell of a catalogue of injuries to wake up to. Best wishes for your recovery.


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## ColinJ (21 Nov 2021)

Obviously, it could have been even worse, but... yikes - that's really nasty!

GWS!


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## I like Skol (21 Nov 2021)

Yikes, GWS and big hugs from Manchester 
How fast was the other cyclist going and what excuse have they given for smashing you up?


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## Baldy (21 Nov 2021)

Oh dear, not nice. I hope you heal quickly. It does sound very painful.


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## vickster (21 Nov 2021)

Oh cripes…GWS


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## DCLane (21 Nov 2021)

Wow! I hope they stopped.

That's a nasty collection of injuries. Having had 6 broken ribs let them heal slowly.


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## 13 rider (21 Nov 2021)

Ouch . Take it easy ,try not to cough or laugh


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## Mrs M (21 Nov 2021)

Oh my 
Horrible experience for you!
Good wishes for your recovery xxxx


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## mudsticks (21 Nov 2021)

Crikey Anne..

Owsers 
Get well soon. 

Hope it hasn't put you off cycling..
A very rare chance occurrence, I'd have thought. 

Hope they stopped to help, maybe you'll never know..??


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## annedonnelly (21 Nov 2021)

Thanks everyone NHS are making a great job of looking after me and an A&E nurse stopped at the scene. I've just managed to track her down to thank her. Not heard from the other cyclist but apparently he has a broken jaw. At least I can eat!


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## Cycleops (21 Nov 2021)

Oh, oh Anne. So sorry. Being hit by another cyclist is something you never normally think about but I do here due to idiots riding on the wrong side of the road but they're coming towards you.

Get well soon.


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## postman (21 Nov 2021)

All the best from here in Leeds.Terrible injuries.


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## Bianchi boy (21 Nov 2021)

Sounds awful Anne, Hope you get well really soon,👍


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## carpiste (21 Nov 2021)

Take care of yourself and just get well before thinking about getting back on the bike, work etc.


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## gavroche (21 Nov 2021)

That really looks bad. Were you on a road or cycle track? I wish you a good recovery .


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## Saluki (21 Nov 2021)

Oh my word. You poor thing. I hope you heal quickly and feel better in yourself really soon.
How the hell did the other cyclist not see you?


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## FishFright (21 Nov 2021)

Ouch ! That looks painful. 
Hope you're fixed up very soon


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## MichaelW2 (21 Nov 2021)

Was the other cyclist a head down speed merchant checking his Stava, or a member of the black hoodie brigade, balancing ciggie, beer and phone whilst shopping for pharmeceuticals?


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## PeteXXX (21 Nov 2021)

Ouch!! It's probably just as well that you have no memory of it, I reckon. You'll need a good while to recover fully from that lot! 
😔
GWS


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## a.twiddler (21 Nov 2021)

What an impossibly random event! Usually if something happens you re run the events in your head endlessly to make sense of things but to just wake up and be told by others what happened takes away your starting point. You will have to relax and take things easy for a while, while things heal. Hope you're not too uncomfortable at present. GWS!


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## StuAff (21 Nov 2021)

GWS!


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## I like Skol (21 Nov 2021)

If it's any consolation, I had a nasty RTA in 2018 that resulted in two broken neck vertebrae and fractured skull. By far the worst part was the frustration of being told to wait before getting back to being active again, it just dragged on foooorrreeeeevvvveeeerrrrrrrr! With hindsight, waiting and giving your body time to heal is by far the best option. Fitness can be recovered (not necessarily easily) but your body needs to repair first! I listened to my spine specialist and I think he was definitely more knowledgeable and experienced than me and gave good advice. By being fit and active you are at a massive advantage compared to the typical injury victim so with care and a prevailing wind you should make an excellent recovery and soon be wondering what all the fuss was about.
Keep your chin up, there will be times when the pain and discomfort seem too much, but even when your troubles have you awake at 3 or 4-o-clock in the morning there is always someone here on cyclechat you can talk to. Unfortunately it might be me working the nightshift...... but beggars can't be choosers


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## gavgav (21 Nov 2021)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Anne


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## fossyant (22 Nov 2021)

GWS. I hope the cyclist is insured.


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## HobbesOnTour (22 Nov 2021)

That's shocking.
Hope you recover fully.


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## flake99please (22 Nov 2021)

Wishing you a full recovery in the shortest possible timeframe.


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## Oldhippy (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon.


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## Arrowfoot (22 Nov 2021)

Speedy recovery Anne.


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## Dayvo (22 Nov 2021)

Oh bloody hell, ad! 
I hope your recovery time is as quick and painless as possible. At least you’re in good hands with the NHS at present.
Get well very soon and before you know it, you’ll be back on two wheels again. 
Good time to catch ip on your reading, but not with a funny book, obviously.
All the best!


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## mustang1 (22 Nov 2021)

That is awful. I hope you heal well and fast.


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## DCBassman (22 Nov 2021)

Blimey, what are the odds? GWS, Anne!


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## biggs682 (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon @annedonnelly

Just remember a bike can be replaced a lot easier than you can


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## Blue Hills (22 Nov 2021)

That's terrible sorry to hear this - get well soon.
Are the police involved in this at all - have they been in touch?


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## Cathryn (22 Nov 2021)

Wow. Sending love x


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## cyberknight (22 Nov 2021)

gws


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## raleighnut (22 Nov 2021)

GWS


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## dave r (22 Nov 2021)

Thats terrible, GWS.


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## IaninSheffield (22 Nov 2021)

Oh my Anne. Wishing you a full and (appropriately) speedy recovery.


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## C R (22 Nov 2021)

Nothing to add to what others have said, just GWS.


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## Fat Lars (22 Nov 2021)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. To know that it was another cyclist implies that this other cyclist must have suffered some damage to their bike or themselves personally. Or another person witnessed the collision and called for an ambulance. Have you any further news?


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## vickster (22 Nov 2021)

Fat Lars said:


> Best wishes for a speedy recovery. To know that it was another cyclist implies that this other cyclist must have suffered some damage to their bike or themselves personally. Or another person witnessed the collision and called for an ambulance. Have you any further news?


Post #13 says he apparently has a broken jaw. And that a passing A&E nurse helped


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## rivers (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2021)

Heal well


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## AndreaJ (22 Nov 2021)

Get Well Soon Anne.


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## Mo1959 (22 Nov 2021)

Shocking! Wishing you a speedy recovery.


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## Dogtrousers (22 Nov 2021)

Sounds horrible. GWS and have a virtual bunch of grapes and bottle of Lucozade from me.


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## T4tomo (22 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Thanks everyone NHS are making a great job of looking after me and an A&E nurse stopped at the scene. I've just managed to track her down to thank her. Not heard from the other cyclist but apparently he has a broken jaw. At least I can eat!


Poor old you! Wishing you a speedy recovery. Any idea how it happened yet - I guess the other cyclist may be struggling to talk


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## Arjimlad (22 Nov 2021)

Nasty, hope you feel better soon & can take the time to heal well!


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## tyred (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon. I know how frustrating it is being out of action.


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## theloafer (22 Nov 2021)

Ouch Speedy recovery Anne ... GWS


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## freiston (22 Nov 2021)

Wishing you a good and full recovery. Please keep us posted with anything you find out about the collision.


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## Blue Hills (22 Nov 2021)

freiston said:


> Wishing you a good and full recovery. Please keep us posted with anything you find out about the collision.


may have to be careful on that second point I suupose for a while - if insurance or legal things are afoot.


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## CXRAndy (22 Nov 2021)

Wow those are impressive (serious) injuries from another rider. Were you stationary when impact took place?

You probably dont know yet whether the other rider was much bigger than you.


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## theclaud (22 Nov 2021)

Crikey. All the best for a speedy recovery.


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## nickyboy (22 Nov 2021)

Blimey that looks very painful. I hope you recover well


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## T4tomo (22 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Wow those are impressive (serious) injuries from another rider.


a former work colleague got some pretty bad injuries when he turned into a one way street and got T boned on his blind side by someone another cyclist going the wrong way


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## steveindenmark (22 Nov 2021)

I was in your position a year ago Anne. But it was a drunk moped rider that got me. But I am back riding now. On the positive side. Thank god its winter. Get well soon


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## Salad Dodger (22 Nov 2021)

Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.


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## mjr (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon. This severity of cyclist-on-cyclist injury is rare, but not rare enough!


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

Holy Mary Mother of Boris! Thats awful news.

Fingers crossed for a speedt recovery, and may the fleas of a thousand stray dogs infect the underpants of your 2 wheeled assailant.


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## MontyVeda (22 Nov 2021)

Crickey that's shocking! Get well soon.


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

gavroche said:


> That really looks bad. Were you on a road or cycle track? I wish you a good recovery .


Shared use cycle path. I'm upset at the thought of kids walking to bus stop or people walking their dogs. At least I had flashing lights so should be visible.


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

Saluki said:


> Oh my word. You poor thing. I hope you heal quickly and feel better in yourself really soon.
> How the hell did the other cyclist not see you?


Like the motorists who don't see? Or perhaps he did and screwed up an overtake.


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

If 


MichaelW2 said:


> Was the other cyclist a head down speed merchant checking his Stava, or a member of the black hoodie brigade, balancing ciggie, beer and phone whilst shopping for pharmeceuticals?


Look out for the one with the broken jaw 🤣


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## Ian H (22 Nov 2021)

Hope you heal properly. It sounds as if he was going far too fast for the path, and for his cycling skilz.


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

biggs682 said:


> Get well soon @annedonnelly
> 
> Just remember a bike can be replaced a lot easier than you can


I still need to properly sort that Dawes you sold me. If Ethel doesn't survive then Doris will have a lot to live up to!


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> That's terrible sorry to hear this - get well soon.
> Are the police involved in this at all - have they been in touch?


I spoke to them last night. No one had reported it and they've no similar previous example. Nothing they can do under the law unless there's any suggestion of malicious action. They were very sympathetic but can only suggest civil action.

I'd just like to know that if someone made a mistake they'll learn from it and take more care next time. If someone can tell me that it was my fault I'll hold my hands up.


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## Sterlo (22 Nov 2021)

Get well soon from one injured cyclist to another (mine was my own fault )


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

vickster said:


> Post #13 says he apparently has a broken jaw. And that a passing A&E nurse helped


Yeah, got the address of the nurse so delivering chocs is going to be easy once I'm allowed out. I suspect we even share our cycling postie


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## annedonnelly (22 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Wow those are impressive (serious) injuries from another rider. Were you stationary when impact took place?
> 
> You probably dont know yet whether the other rider was much bigger than you.


I hope I wasn't stationary. There was no reason to stop at that point. 

Sounds like I've been sandwiched between bikes with him on top. He was forced to stay on top of me until he'd been checked over. I guess that could be a while depending on how long the ambulances took to arrive.

Someone said there'd been three ambulances but I don't think my bike got one of her own  My poor neighbour got a shock to see my bike arrive home without me. But had the sense to realise I was being looked after and that she'd have a pair of hungry budgies to feed.


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## boydj (22 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I spoke to them last night. No one had reported it and they've no similar previous example. Nothing they can do under the law unless there's any suggestion of malicious action. They were very sympathetic but can only suggest civil action.
> 
> I'd just like to know that if someone made a mistake they'll learn from it and take more care next time. If someone can tell me that it was my fault I'll hold my hands up.



That's a sore one to take. Hope you heal well and recover fully.

Sounds like you have a significant damages claim to make for damages to your bike and for personal injury - hope he has household insurance with personal liability, since responsibility seems to be clear. Don't go soft on him - you wouldn't think twice if he'd been driving a car.


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## Hebe (22 Nov 2021)

So sorry to read this Anne. Wishing you a full and comfortable recovery.


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## Andy_R (22 Nov 2021)

Sheesh....I thought you were from Blyth...I'm sure that's the normal state for a Blyth girl to be in on a Sunday morning after a girls' night out...


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## Colin Grigson (23 Nov 2021)

Horrendous - I hope you’re not too uncomfortable, wishing you a speedy recovery.


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## Blue Hills (23 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I spoke to them last night. No one had reported it and they've no similar previous example. Nothing they can do under the law unless there's any suggestion of malicious action. They were very sympathetic but can only suggest civil action.
> 
> I'd just like to know that if someone made a mistake they'll learn from it and take more care next time. If someone can tell me that it was my fault I'll hold my hands up.


Sounds like the police have given the final word on that then. 
though this surprises me:
>>Nothing they can do under the law unless there's any suggestion of malicious action.
I thought there had been cases where cyclists had been done for careless/dangerous riding involving pedestrians or similar where no malice aforethought was even implied.
Still, there would be the problem of evidence - sounds as if it's not available.
Get well soon.


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## vickster (23 Nov 2021)

There’s no rush of course, but if you’re a member of British Cycling or Cycling UK, it might be worth having a chat with their legal firm about what recourse you might have, if you wish to go that way (eg if you’re out of pocket for the bike, lost earnings etc).

Hope things are getting less sore day by day


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## Lozz360 (23 Nov 2021)

Hope and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Even more shocking is the fact that this happened on a shared cycle path. It’s crazy that the police won’t take any action. There is clear evidence that the “cycling furiously” law has been well and truly infringed.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (23 Nov 2021)

Bloody cyclists... Get well soon!


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## T4tomo (23 Nov 2021)

Lozz360 said:


> There is clear evidence that the “cycling furiously” law has been well and truly infringed.


No - The issue is there isn't any clear evidence. 
We can surmise that the other party was probably going to fast for what they could see ahead, what happened next is pure guess work - maybe a swerve into AD's path to avoid a pedestrian or a loose dog or just lost control or was on the wrong side because they didn't treat the path like road and ride on the left. Poor old AD needs an eye witness and / or the story from the other party to try to piece it all together


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## Alex321 (23 Nov 2021)

Lozz360 said:


> Hope and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
> 
> Even more shocking is the fact that this happened on a shared cycle path. It’s crazy that the police won’t take any action. There is clear evidence that the “cycling furiously” law has been well and truly infringed.


Unfortunately, there appears to be no evidence whatsoever that has happened.

We can surmise that it is likely, but supposition is not evidence.

Without either eye-witnesses or CCTV, there is no useful evidence.


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## HobbesOnTour (23 Nov 2021)

@vickster 's advice above is good. Get yourself some legal advice, for self protection even if you have no desire to claim. Of the two of you only the other cyclist knows what happened. Some people can use that to their advantage. 

Sorry. I'm sure that's the last thing you want to read right now.


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## Lozz360 (23 Nov 2021)

T4tomo said:


> No - The issue is there isn't any clear evidence.
> We can surmise that the other party was probably going to fast for what they could see ahead, what happened next is pure guess work - maybe a swerve into AD's path to avoid a pedestrian or a loose dog or just lost control or was on the wrong side because they didn't treat the path like road and ride on the left. Poor old AD needs an eye witness and / or the story from the other party to try to piece it all together





Alex321 said:


> Unfortunately, there appears to be no evidence whatsoever that has happened.
> We can surmise that it is likely, but supposition is not evidence.
> Without either eye-witnesses or CCTV, there is no useful evidence.


OK but I thought that the evidence is reasonable. I am assuming the following "facts": -

1. The perp is identified and has admitted to the collision. He has a broken jaw after all, so may not be in a position to deny any involvement.
2. AD does not suffer from any form of brittle bone disease. Given the list of injuries sustained, we do have clear evidence that the collision happened with considerable force on a shared cycle path which could have very likely contained unpredictable children, dogs, etc.

I suppose the other party could claim that the collision was all AD's fault and she rode in to him. As she doesn't recall the impact, that may be a problem. However, she does say that she was apparently hit from behind. Again if the damage to the bikes and persons concerned, prove that the impact was him riding into AD, then not a problem surely?

The last thing I want to do is give AD false hope (not a lawyer) but at the very least I would have thought the police could question the other party to find out his side of the story.


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## mjr (23 Nov 2021)

Lozz360 said:


> Again if the damage to the bikes and persons concerned, prove that the impact was him riding into AD, then not a problem surely?
> 
> The last thing I want to do is give AD false hope (not a lawyer) but at the very least I would have thought the police could question the other party to find out his side of the story.


Yes but there's no police available for this sort of road policing any more, of going to interview a road casualty in a two-casualty collision to see if they incriminate themself.

So we are where we are. The evidence without witness or video may well prove who was to blame "on the balance of probabilities" (for damages to be paid) but that's a long way from the "beyond reasonable doubt" needed for a criminal conviction.


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## annedonnelly (23 Nov 2021)

Thanks everyone for concern and advice.

I think that if there's no law that police can use to prosecute then they shouldn't spend time investigating. Unless there is somehow a message through my door that I'll see when I get home, I don't know who the other cyclist was. He was seen wandering A&E with broken jaw so police advise I can easily trace him via solicitor. That's something I'll look at doing once I'm home.

At the minute I need to sort stuff for managing at home without going upstairs.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Nov 2021)

@annedonnelly Anne, I'm just reading this: so sorry it happened, GWS.
It must be very annoying not knowing how it happened.
Even if the police cannot do anything, it's worth tracing the other cyclist.
Hopefully they are insured, and you could at least get the bike's costs back, plus time earnings lost.
Take care, keep us updated xxx


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## Reynard (23 Nov 2021)

Ouch, hun xxx

Mend quickly. Healing vibes being sent by everyone here chez Casa Reynard.


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## Drago (23 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Yeah, got the address of the nurse so delivering chocs is going to be easy once I'm allowed out. I suspect we even share our cycling postie


You could show how forgiving you are by buying the chap a box of toffees to take his mind off the broken jaw


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## Toshiba Boy (23 Nov 2021)

Blimey, GWS Anne.


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## I like Skol (25 Nov 2021)

How's the patient today? Hope things are progressing in the right direction.

I just reread your original post about the incident and spotted your comment about not remembering anything from slightly before the collision. It's funny how that happens, it was the same for me. I didn't, and never have regained any memory of my RTA and the few seconds before.
I remember approaching the traffic lights (on green) but from that point have nothing of the car approaching me, the impact, or of my trajectory after the collision. The only thing I ever managed to scrape out of the recesses of my mind was a momentary flash view of the car when it was about 18" from hitting me. I even asked the police days later if the car that hit me was a black hatchback something like a Focus (which is exactly what it was).
The lack of memory can be problematic for trying to make sense of what happened. It was days after the accident before I got to talk to the police to even confirm where the accident had occured. Until then I was just guessing and even wondered if it might have been my fault. Luckily once I knew where it was I knew I was in the clear. If it had been a few junctions later with no memory of the intervening journey I wouldn't have had a clue!

Anne, I'm sure you must be wracking your brain trying to work it all out but by the sound of it you were not at all at fault so don't start doubting yourself if you never get a clear memory of the incident.

Anyway, godspeed with the recovery and hope you are soon mended and back on the bike


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## cyberknight (25 Nov 2021)

yup hows it going today?


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## annedonnelly (25 Nov 2021)

Hi guys. My friend looked at the bike today and it's the front that has been totalled. Bent forks and knackered wheel. So if I was hit from behind did I also go into something? There's a lot of street furniture on the cycle path at the point I think the incident happened.

I was pretty upset after that news. First tears really. I'll be disappointed if there was something I could've done to avoid it and save all this hassle. I'm pleased that so far I have no memory, but I would really like to know what happened.

I cannot believe how tiring everything is. Just hopping with a frame from one side of the bed to the other completely wipes me out and I need to rest for ages.

But good news is that I've been cleared to go home. Equipment has been delivered and they just need to sort the support from social services. Could be home by tomorrow tea time. But picked nice meals from tomorrow's menu just in case I'm eating here.


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## Oldhippy (25 Nov 2021)

Hope you manage ok when home. Make good use of offers of help and don't overdo things.


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## annedonnelly (25 Nov 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Hope you manage ok when home. Make good use of offers of help and don't overdo things.


They wouldn't let me out if they didn't think I could cope. I plan to treat the next few weeks as a mini-lockdown with no pressure to be out and about.


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## biggs682 (25 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> They wouldn't let me out if they didn't think I could cope. I plan to treat the next few weeks as a mini-lockdown with no pressure to be out and about.


Sure you will have people who will help to look after you ? 
Keep well and don't overdo it


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## I like Skol (25 Nov 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> and don't overdo





biggs682 said:


> Keep well and don't overdo it


She's a cyclist, of course she'll overdo it....


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## annedonnelly (25 Nov 2021)

biggs682 said:


> Sure you will have people who will help to look after you ?


Yes, it's sorted thanks. Pottering about in the house will be tiring but I can rest whenever I need. Neighbours will do shopping and it's a chance to empty the freezer.

And zero pressure to get back to work.


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## The Crofted Crest (25 Nov 2021)

Woo, just seen this. Hope you're getting better.

GWS.


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## Drago (26 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> They wouldn't let me out if they didn't think I could cope. I plan to treat the next few weeks as a mini-lockdown with no pressure to be out and about.


They let me out to walk about with a broken elbow...


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## Badger_Boom (26 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I spoke to them last night. No one had reported it and they've no similar previous example. Nothing they can do under the law unless there's any suggestion of malicious action. They were very sympathetic but can only suggest civil action.


So it’s not covered by the old cyclists must not “Ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner” from the 1988 Road Traffic Act?


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## the snail (26 Nov 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> So it’s not covered by the old cyclists must not “Ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner” from the 1988 Road Traffic Act?


I'm sure there are laws that cover this, but unless there is clear evidence to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, nothing is going to happen. Most traffic collisions could probably be prosecuted, but aren't, it's left to the insurance companies to sort out the damage.
GWS Anne.


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## Badger_Boom (26 Nov 2021)

the snail said:


> I'm sure there are laws that cover this, but unless there is clear evidence to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, nothing is going to happen. Most traffic collisions could probably be prosecuted, but aren't, it's left to the insurance companies to sort out the damage.
> GWS Anne.


Noted. I was commenting more on the police response of "what can you do eh?" which seems not strictly accurate.


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## annedonnelly (26 Nov 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> So it’s not covered by the old cyclists must not “Ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner” from the 1988 Road Traffic Act?


The "wanton and furious cycling" thing needs the incident to be seen by a policeman if that's the one you're referring to.


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## HobbesOnTour (26 Nov 2021)

Am I the only one to be a bit shocked that the other rider hasn't been in touch to at least check on @annedonnelly ? Even a formal exchange of details?

I hate to be señor negative but you've had a traumatic experience. As well as the physical recovery there may well be a mental recovery needed too. I don't know if you've been offered any kind of psych consult but it may be something to ask about, especially given that you can't recall the details. Things may start being remembered in flashes at inopportune times. Even just a chat to learn about how the brain is processing all this may be helpful.

Best of luck


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## GM (26 Nov 2021)

Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery Anne!


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## Drago (26 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> The "wanton and furious cycling" thing needs the incident to be seen by a policeman if that's the one you're referring to.



Indeed. Its a "found committing" offence, which means a constabubble has to catch them at it in person.


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## classic33 (26 Nov 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Am I the only one to be a bit shocked that the other rider hasn't been in touch to at least check on @annedonnelly ? Even a formal exchange of details?
> 
> I hate to be señor negative but you've had a traumatic experience. As well as the physical recovery there may well be a mental recovery needed too. I don't know if you've been offered any kind of psych consult but it may be something to ask about, especially given that you can't recall the details. Things may start being remembered in flashes at inopportune times. Even just a chat to learn about how the brain is processing all this may be helpful.
> 
> Best of luck


They may have tried the hospital but been refused entry, as many hospitals are doing at present. Even to family.

Not excusing them if they haven't even tried, as you say even just to check on the other person involved.


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## Badger_Boom (26 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> The "wanton and furious cycling" thing needs the incident to be seen by a policeman if that's the one you're referring to.


That's true, but that's why I didn't quote the 1861 Offences Agaisnt the Person Act which is where you'll find WaFR.

I was thinking of Section 28 of the Highways Act 1988:

_28 Dangerous cycling._
_(1) A person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence._​​_(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)—_​​_(a) the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and_​​_(b) it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous._​​_(3) In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of that subsection what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused._​
See also Section 168 about failure to give a name and address.


----------



## vickster (26 Nov 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> That's true, but that's why I didn't quote the 1861 Offences Agaisnt the Person Act which is where you'll find WaFR.
> 
> I was thinking of Section 28 of the Highways Act 1988:
> 
> ...


Does that apply to cycle paths as it says road?


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## Badger_Boom (26 Nov 2021)

vickster said:


> Does that apply to cycle paths as it says road?


You make a valid point, and no doubt something any budding Mr Loophole will have fun with.


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## HobbesOnTour (26 Nov 2021)

classic33 said:


> They may have tried the hospital but been refused entry, as many hospitals are doing at present. Even to family.
> 
> Not excusing them if they haven't even tried, as you say even just to check on the other person involved.


That's true and there are possible legal considerations too.
However, I still find it odd that not even a card/letter was handed in. 
Anne has no idea what happened to her and the one person who does is silent. It's not a good look.


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## classic33 (26 Nov 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> That's true and there are possible legal considerations too.
> However, I still find it odd that not even a card/letter was handed in.
> Anne has no idea what happened to her and the one person who does is silent. It's not a good look.


I agree with you on that part, it doesn't look good for the other party. 
Maybe they'll make contact when they know she's out of hospital.

Maybe it's a reflection of how we value another persons life these days. Hopefully not though.


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## Badger_Boom (27 Nov 2021)

classic33 said:


> I agree with you on that part, it doesn't look good for the other party.
> Maybe they'll make contact when they know she's out of hospital.
> 
> Maybe it's a reflection of how we value another persons life these days. Hopefully not though.


I think it says more about the pervasive culture of not admitting liability (or not taking responsibility for your actions).


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## DiggyGun (27 Nov 2021)

The only cyclist that crashed into me is the wife. Mind you I was off the bike and it was there on its stand. Unfortunately, the wife came off and got some grazing to her arm. Fortunately, apart from the graze she was alright. The only damage to the bikes, was that my rear light got smashed, but had to re-position some parts on her bike.

It transpired that when using the rear brake, she activated the twist throttle at the same time, which I didn’t realise that she did this. She has very small hands and the reach to the brake levers was a little bit too far, even though adjusted all the way in.

She confessed that this had happened a few times but hadn’t told me. To prevent this happening again, I disconnected the throttle, just pulled the connectors apart and taped them up.

We looked at getting a thumb throttle, but she said that she never used it much, so not a problem. Good news is that she can now she can brake safely.


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## annedonnelly (27 Nov 2021)

Now that I'm home I hope to get someone on the case to find out more. Am I correct that BC will help if you join now even if not a member when the incident occurred?

I have the address of the nurse to send gift to but I won't be hopping round to see her anytime soon. Apparently another passing driver stopped and he had seen what happened. The nurse only saw me come off but not the cause.

I was slightly horrified when the OT showed me my recovery targets. Back to work in six months and back on the bike in twelve!!!!
As we're working from home I hope to be able to do something before Christmas. Once I have some energy back I'll be bored silly if I can't do something. And I'd hate to be off the bike for a year.


Today's highlight is discovering that my expensive cheddar wasn't thrown out when my fridge was cleaned out


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## I like Skol (27 Nov 2021)

I wasn't a BC member or have specific cycling insurance when my accident occured.
Luckily the BC partner legal firm Leigh Day take cases on as a no win no fee basis and dealt with my case brilliantly and were successful in achieving a settlement from the guilty party on my behalf. I can recommend you contact them as a good starting point.


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## alex_cycles (27 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Am I correct that BC will help if you join now even if not a member when the incident occurred?



From here...



BritishCycling said:


> *What is not covered?*
> Unfortunately, the British Cycling Incident Helpline and British Cycling’s solicitors will not support a legal action:
> 
> 
> ...


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Now that I'm home I hope to get someone on the case to find out more. Am I correct that BC will help if you join now even if not a member when the incident occurred?
> 
> I have the address of the nurse to send gift to but I won't be hopping round to see her anytime soon. Apparently another passing driver stopped and he had seen what happened. The nurse only saw me come off but not the cause.
> 
> ...


maybe look an e bike/e trike to get riding sooner dependant on recovery? best wishes on a quick recovery , i have only been off the bike for a week and looking at 8 weeks before im back at work and im already bouncing off the walls !


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## Dale 1956 (27 Nov 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Normally I worry about being whacked from behind by a car. I woke up in hospital on Wednesday with various injuries apparently having been hit from behind by another cyclist. It's probably good that I have no memory from slightly before the incident on Tuesday morning. I've various injuries including broken ribs, broken collar bone, two broken vertebrae and I now have lots of metal work in my knee. The bruising is pretty impressive now.
> View attachment 618812
> 
> 
> ...


I know the feeling all to well I was hit to on my bicycle back in 2015 the lady was 71 at the time she was on the phone or something my big dummy bicycle was a total lost and part of my upper back was broken.But I have move on and still riding now too.Best wish to you to get well soon.


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## wafter (27 Nov 2021)

Really sorry to hear about this - and at the hands of a fellow cyclist too 

Wishing you a swift recovery - if it's any consolation, as a fair weather cyclist I suspect I'll be getting about as much riding in as you will be over the next three months!


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## vickster (27 Nov 2021)

I think Cycling U.K. allow you to become a member after the event, not BC


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## ColinJ (27 Nov 2021)

I don't know if Big Brother Google really IS watching us, but shortly after reading this thread I went on YouTube, and this was the first video suggested...



_DEFINITELY _watch out for other cyclists! I had a rider do that to me in Spain, only I managed not to fall off. Let me see if I can find my post...

Here you go:



ColinJ said:


> A fellow cyclist on a training camp on the Costa Blanca!
> 
> Being in Spain, we were riding on the RH side of the road. We were riding through the coastal town of Calpe, on a road we had already done about 3 or 4 times earlier in the holiday, so we knew the way, following the coastal road NE towards Moraira.
> 
> So, I was at the back of the bunch chatting to a rider on my left. The rest of the group carried straight on at a big roundabout (here), and I went to do the same. The rider I was talking to apparently had other ideas and went to turn right across me. We ended up leaning on each other and wobbling off to the right, before coming to a halt. I asked him what he was playing at and he said that he had decided to go and take a look at the seafront ... _*WTF! *_


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## annedonnelly (27 Nov 2021)

vickster said:


> I think Cycling U.K. allow you to become a member after the event, not BC


Thanks. Been struggling with internet access since I got home so I think that's a job for Monday


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## Dogtrousers (27 Nov 2021)

Look after yourself. Here's another bunch of virtual grapes.


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## annedonnelly (27 Nov 2021)

cyberknight said:


> maybe look an e bike/e trike to get riding sooner dependant on recovery? best wishes on a quick recovery , i have only been off the bike for a week and looking at 8 weeks before im back at work and im already bouncing off the walls !


Someone nearby has an e-cargo bike that I've been lusting after for a while so you never know...


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## Pale Rider (5 Dec 2021)

I'm afraid the coppers have done what they increasingly do - focused on brushing @annedonnelly off rather than any possible prosecution.

Put another way, you can rest assured had Anne suffered fatal injuries the coppers would be taking a more active interest.

Having said that, fault is far from clear.

Front damage to the bike could suggest Anne clouted something which caused her to fall into the path of the following cyclist.

A competent and careful cyclist could not reasonably be expected to foresee that, which would absolve him of blame.

By the way Anne, was it your trusty Edinburgh Bicycles/Revolution hybrid which was damaged?

I know you were very fond of that one, having been on many adventures with it.


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## HLaB (5 Dec 2021)

That's some damage, heal well @annedonnelly 

I can only remember being hit once from behind by another cyclist. About 14 years ago I was second row in a chaingang (although we hadn't actually started the chain gang as we were still in the city). The rider in front gave the shout and stopped and I passed on the message and stopped behind. The rider behind didn't though although the 2 lines behind him did


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## annedonnelly (5 Dec 2021)

@Pale Rider Yes my trusty Revolution  My brother and a friend have both checked it out but I'm not brave enough to get them to show it to me yet. I'll be heartbroken if she has to be written off. I'd never get another like that one.

@HLaB As far as I know I wasn't involved in a chain gang  I'm never keen to have others cycling close to me and now I know why!!

One good thing though - the miserable weather we're having at the minute means I'm happy to stay indoors and send others out for my shopping. And I have masses of sympathy for the poor carers who had to visit here in the ice and snow earlier in the week. Two of them had come off their bikes


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## mjr (5 Dec 2021)

vickster said:


> Does that apply to cycle paths as it says road?


Yes. Later in the act, it says "“road”
(a) in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes,"

Legally, a so-called "cycle path" is normally a cycleway within a highway, whether with or without a right of way on foot, whether alongside a carriageway or alone. A permissive cycle path would be an example of an "other road".


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## PK99 (6 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I was slightly horrified when the OT showed me my recovery targets. Back to work in six months and back on the bike in twelve!!!!



Only just seen this thread as at the time of your OP I was in hospital in Madeira having my shoulder reconnected after a walking fall.

Sadly, I have long and multiple experiences of injury and rehab... mostly my own fault. My key advice would be to not simply rely on NHS Physio/OT - find a good private sports physio. NHS are verbal assessment plus exercise sheets as per NHS protocol. Sports Physios are Hands-on and personised programmes. No criticism of NHS, just saying it as it is.

Chin up. It gets easier day by day. Maybe keep a daily diary so that when you get a downer, you can check back to see that you are actually getting better.


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## slowmotion (6 Dec 2021)

Oh dear! Very best wishes to you.


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## Richard A Thackeray (6 Dec 2021)

Need to watch out for the Ninja-Riders too

I took daughter back to York last night, after dark
We went up the western 'bypass' & into the city along the A19 (Rawcliffe, towards Clifton)

I counted 9 riders
2 had front & rear lights
5 had front only (opposing side didn't appear in the mirrors)
2 had none at all

There were also a couple of the cycle-path/footpath over the Ouse bridge)

None of these looked like young kids, who as we all know are immortal
They appeared to be (from what I could tell) Uni students/mums going to shop/home from work/commuters

I realise that the vast majority of drivers around York are used to cyclists, but it seemed as though htey're attempting 'suicide by proxy' around there


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## annedonnelly (6 Dec 2021)

There's an older chap near me who regularly rides in the early morning and rarely uses lights. You can get a set for a fiver so there's no excuse is there?

He also has a habit of hopping off the pavement into the road without looking. One day it won't be me behind him, it'll be someone who takes a lot less care.


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## mjr (6 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> There's an older chap near me who regularly rides in the early morning and rarely uses lights. You can get a set for a fiver so there's no excuse is there?
> 
> He also has a habit of hopping off the pavement into the road without looking. One day it won't be me behind him, it'll be someone who takes a lot less care.


If so, it'll be the dangerous move (one of the top five casualty moves IIRC, but causing far fewer injuries than left hooks, right crosses or motorists failing to stop) that is the main factor in his downfall. That would still be an unwise move if he had lights.

Also, a five quid set will only be legal if it is blinkies, which are pretty unlikely to be significant in an area with streetlights.

Unlit cyclists are underrepresented in casualties, less than 3% despite them being pretty common AFAICT. They are simply not worth much of our time. Let's focus on bigger problems, like cyclists apparently riding too close behind and not leaving safe stopping distance...


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## Badger_Boom (6 Dec 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Need to watch out for the Ninja-Riders too
> 
> I took daughter back to York last night, after dark
> We went up the western 'bypass' & into the city along the A19 (Rawcliffe, towards Clifton)
> ...





annedonnelly said:


> There's an older chap near me who regularly rides in the early morning and rarely uses lights. You can get a set for a fiver so there's no excuse is there?
> 
> He also has a habit of hopping off the pavement into the road without looking. One day it won't be me behind him, it'll be someone who takes a lot less care.


Add to Richard's list of York miscreants the ones (often, but not exclusively, without lights) who's immediate action when encountering pedestrians on the footpath is to swerve into the oncoming traffic rather than slow down.


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## Sterlo (6 Dec 2021)

PK99 said:


> Only just seen this thread as at the time of your OP I was in hospital in Madeira having my shoulder reconnected after a walking fall.
> 
> Sadly, I have long and multiple experiences of injury and rehab... mostly my own fault. My key advice would be to not simply rely on NHS Physio/OT - find a good private sports physio. NHS are verbal assessment plus exercise sheets as per NHS protocol. Sports Physios are Hands-on and personised programmes. No criticism of NHS, just saying it as it is.
> 
> Chin up. It gets easier day by day. Maybe keep a daily diary so that when you get a downer, you can check back to see that you are actually getting better.


+1 from me on this one re the physio. It took me ages to get to finally see someone after my elbow op. He was good but it was the time I could have spent doing the rehab earlier if I'd known what I was doing that I still think is causing me issues now.


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## kayakerles (7 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I hope I wasn't stationary. There was no reason to stop at that point.
> 
> Sounds like I've been sandwiched between bikes with him on top. He was forced to stay on top of me until he'd been checked over. I guess that could be a while depending on how long the ambulances took to arrive.
> 
> Someone said there'd been three ambulances but I don't think my bike got one of her own  My poor neighbour got a shock to see my bike arrive home without me. But had the sense to realise I was being looked after and that she'd have a pair of hungry budgies to feed.


A pretty budgie to sing you back to good health, or at least to stand tall and watch over you while you recover, Anne.





Yes, he’s real, not a photoshop creation. Skip to the bottom of Wikipedia’s pitch for donations to read about Half-siders.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sider_budgerigar Then search the net for MORE half-sider budgies!

Heal well & fully, Anne.


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## annedonnelly (7 Dec 2021)

Ooh he's smart.

I was pleased to get home to mine. I have only two at the minute. One is a very elderly and disabled hen who is a lovely creamy colour. I believe she was a cross between an albino and a lutino. Her boyfriend is more the standard green with yellow face. 

The one in my avatar is no longer with me. He was a rather tame bird as he'd been handled by the breeders from being a tiny chick.

Off to follow your link now. Thanks


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## Mo1959 (7 Dec 2021)

kayakerles said:


> A pretty budgie to sing you back to good health, or at least to stand tall and watch over you while you recover, Anne.
> 
> View attachment 620978
> Yes, he’s real, not a photoshop creation. Skip to the bottom of Wikipedia’s pitch for donations to read about Half-siders.
> ...


Wow. He’s gorgeous.

They are great little characters if handled early and often. I had a blue boy that was out flying around the house and involved in whatever we were doing most of the day.


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Dec 2021)

In York again, as l type (@15:38)
It’s cloudy, raining, almost every vehicle has lights on &… I’ve just seen on the A19, between the ‘ring-road’ & Clifton Green, a lass;
Black (or navy coat), black bike, black rucksack,
No lights…
Headphones in (little white ones)

Stupid, to the point of suicidal!

Doubtless though, if l had been able to stop & ask, she’d probably not see anything wrong with what she was doing
That’s part of the problem, people don’t see, or understand, the consequences


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## Milkfloat (7 Dec 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> In York again, as l type (@15:38)
> It’s cloudy, raining, almost every vehicle has lights on &… *I’ve just seen* on the A19, between the ‘ring-road’ & Clifton Green, a lass;
> Black (or navy coat), black bike, black rucksack,
> No lights…
> ...


Bolded the relevant bit for you.


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Bolded the relevant bit for you.


Let's not start that nonsense as it has nothing to do with the OP. Yes, drivers must look out for vulnerable road users, but it is a legal requirement for cyclists to use lights when on the road in the dark and IMO that requirement is not unreasonable.
These cyclists really aren't helping themselves or the drivers.


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## Milkfloat (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Let's not start that nonsense as it has nothing to do with the OP. Yes, drivers must look out for vulnerable road users, but it is a legal requirement for cyclists to use lights when on the road in the dark and IMO that requirement is not unreasonable.
> These cyclists really aren't helping themselves or the drivers.


You call it nonsense, but at 15:38 there was no legal requirements for lights to be used. The clothing and headphones are just nonsense by drivers who don't want to take responsibility for their driving.


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> Bolded the relevant bit for you.


That was the least relevant part of his post.

The fact that as another cyclist, he saw her is completely irrelevant to the point that (illegally) riding without lights or even reflective clothing is just plain stupid.

Whether you might believe that a motorist travelling at the speed limit *should* see her doesn't really matter if she is dead because she wasn't seen.


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## Milkfloat (7 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> That was the least relevant part of his post.
> 
> The fact that as another cyclist, he saw her is completely irrelevant to the point that (illegally) riding without lights or even reflective clothing is just plain stupid.
> 
> Whether you might believe that a motorist travelling at the speed limit *should* see her doesn't really matter if she is dead because she wasn't seen.


As I have mentioned - it was not illegal. Why don't you pop outside and start telling pedestrians and trees that they should have lights and high vis.


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> As I have mentioned - it was not illegal. Why don't you pop outside and start telling pedestrians and trees that they should have lights and high vis.


I missed the time, but that doesn't stop it being stupid. 5 minutes before sunset, rather than half an hour after, it is still pretty dark at this time of year.

And pedestrians who are going to be walking in the road (as opposed to just crossing it reasonably quickly) most certainly *should* be wearing high vis and/or lights in those conditions. Round here most of those do IME. I have no idea why you expect me to "pop outside" to tell them though. Nor why you bring trees into it.


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## Milkfloat (7 Dec 2021)

Alex321 said:


> I missed the time, but that doesn't stop it being stupid. 5 minutes before sunset, rather than half an hour after, it is still pretty dark at this time of year.
> 
> And pedestrians who are going to be walking in the road (as opposed to just crossing it reasonably quickly) most certainly *should* be wearing high vis and/or lights in those conditions. Round here most of those do IME. I have no idea why you expect me to "pop outside" to tell them though. Nor why you bring trees into it.


Why *should* they? The onus is on the driver not to run over cyclists, pedestrians or even trees no matter what they are wearing. All talk of anything else is just diverting the problem away from those who need to be taking care. Do you think women should not to wear a short skirt in case they get raped?


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

Oh my, there's something mighty strange going on with this forum today. Maybe it's pre-Christmas tension?


How are you today @annedonnelly , hopping about under your own steam?


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## Dogtrousers (7 Dec 2021)

We need more budgie pictures!


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

Niether the right time or right place for such petty nit picking.

@annedonnelly how are you feeling today, mentally and physically.


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## kayakerles (7 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Ooh he's smart.
> 
> I was pleased to get home to mine. I have only two at the minute. One is a very elderly and disabled hen who is a lovely creamy colour. I believe she was a cross between an albino and a lutino. Her boyfriend is more the standard green with yellow face.
> 
> ...


Anne, Here's another half-sider, Twinzy, and another, Houdini Half-sider budgies and a finch and lobster too!

When I was a kid growing up in a flat in NYC,we were not allowed to have cats or dogs, but birds were okay. My first feathery friend ever was Chico, a beautiful turquoise budgie like the one in your avatar. Loved that boy. He so loved to sing to himself in his mirror! I have since then had other bird-friends in my life… budgies, two grey-cheeked parakeets (they looked more like lovebirds) quaker parakeets, both green and blue, and even an African grey parrot for many years. All such good little friends. Except for Cisco, my African Gray (Timneh) who wasn't that little!

Now Mrs. Kayaker and I share our even smaller flat in Maryland right outside of Washington DC with our 2 old kitty boys, Benny, 15yo (green eyes) and Charlie, 17yo, both shown here napping a few minutes ago (for a change.)

But isn't it great having wonderful _non_-human friends in our life?










*Get Well Soon!*


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> You call it nonsense, but at 15:38 there was no legal requirements for lights to be used. The clothing and headphones are just nonsense by drivers who don't want to take responsibility for their driving.


At that time, given the weather/the rain/the amount of traffic/her almost invisibility amongst vehicular headlights, it was a fairly daft way to ride

If I'd been some ranting 'Daily Fail' reader, why, yes!, I may need it pointing out that I ought to see her
However, riders like this don't help the cause for the rest of us 

I know, that if I was riding at that time, with that weather, all of mine would have been on
(& maybe even my '360' jacket)


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> At that time, given the weather/the rain/the amount of traffic/her almost invisibility amongst vehicular headlights, it was a fairly daft way to ride
> 
> If I'd been some ranting 'Daily Fail' reader, may, yes!, I may need it pointing out that I ought to see her
> However, riders like this don't help the cause for the rest of us
> ...


Me too. I'm a long way from the 'lights all the time DRL' brigade, but on those gloomy, bad weather days, especially when passing in and out of shade under tree cover etc I will put my commuting lights on flash to make sure drivers have a chance of seeing the otherwise shadowy figure moving in the shadows. I also don't wear hi-viz as I have seen first hand how it merges into the background in busy urban environments! There is no 'one size fits all' remedy, but a decent (and I don't mean the cheap Chinese retina burning dazzlers!) set of lights improve your chances in low light/dark conditions immeasurably.


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## annedonnelly (7 Dec 2021)

@roadrash Thanks for asking. I've been to the fracture clinic today. Bit of a tiring trip even though I was collected and dropped off by ambulance. Bonus that both of the team on the first ambulance were cyclists  

Nurse took the stitches out at the clinic and everyone is pleased that it's healing well. A doctor popped in and said I looked a lot better than when he last saw me but I think that was immediately after the operation so I probably wasn't at my best!

Got a phone interview tomorrow with my rehab key worker and then back to hospital on Thursday to get my fractured vertebrae looked.

Upsetting thing today though was looking at the state of my bike. My brother got it out of the garage and took some photos. I haven't cried over my own injuries but thinking of my poor bike sets me off 😭 

Here's a couple of the pics. Don't think the forks are supposed to be like that.


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> @roadrash Thanks for asking. I've been to the fracture clinic today. Bit of a tiring trip even though I was collected and dropped off by ambulance. Bonus that both of the team on the first ambulance were cyclists
> 
> Nurse took the stitches out at the clinic and everyone is pleased that it's healing well. A doctor popped in and said I looked a lot better than when he last saw me but I think that was immediately after the operation so I probably wasn't at my best!
> 
> ...


Is it a Halfords bike?


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## roadrash (7 Dec 2021)

As long as the head tube isnt damaged then it looks like an easy repair, pleased to they are happy that you are healing well good luck with the appointment for your vertebrae.


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## annedonnelly (7 Dec 2021)

@kayakerles A budgie picture is bound to cheer anyone up.

You've had quite a variety. I've had a couple of canaries but apart from that only budgies. When we were kids at home we just had single birds. The first was hand tamed and a great pet for children. He played with us a lot.

Since I've lived alone and go out to work all day it's not fair to have a single bird so I usually have four. There are just two now because of Fidget being old and disabled. I don't want to add young ones to the cage. Normally the cage door is left open so they can fly free. For a long time their favourite place to perch was the curtain rail. Though that meant they couldn't be seen by the passing school children who do like to see them  

I did try to remember the names of all the ones I've had the other day but got stuck at 18. I think I've forgotten some. Sadly I don't have photos of many of them.


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## annedonnelly (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Is it a Halfords bike?


Funny I was going to joke about it being a supermarket one


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## raleighnut (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Is it a Halfords bike?


My thoughts too.


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## 13 rider (7 Dec 2021)

As @roadrash says that might look worse than it is , If it's just the fork surely that can be replaced . Cool cylcechat sticker when were they a thing 
Good luck on your recovery


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## BoldonLad (7 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> As I have mentioned - it was not illegal. Why don't you pop outside and start telling pedestrians and trees that they should have lights and high vis.



Unless you were in the vicinity at the same time, how can you know what conditions were like, ie, visibility? It may not have been “official lights on” time, but, should lights be used also at times of poor visibility? 

If you were in the same vicinity at the relevant time, ok, you know the conditions.


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Here's a couple of the pics. Don't think the forks are supposed to be like that.



Ooof. No, they aren't. I cause mine to g a similar shape once as a teenager - by riding into the back of a parked car.

That definitely looks like you hit something solid - possibly after being knocked off course by being hit from behind?

Just hope you make a full and fairly speedy recovery. The bike can be repaired, it is harder to repair yourself.


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## Alex321 (7 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> Niether the right time or right place for such petty nit picking.



Agreed, I have copied those posts to a separate thread and will post no more on that in this one.


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Is it a Halfords bike?


Now it'll take less space in the shed, or garage, too!


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## Reynard (7 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> @roadrash Thanks for asking. I've been to the fracture clinic today. Bit of a tiring trip even though I was collected and dropped off by ambulance. Bonus that both of the team on the first ambulance were cyclists
> 
> Nurse took the stitches out at the clinic and everyone is pleased that it's healing well. A doctor popped in and said I looked a lot better than when he last saw me but I think that was immediately after the operation so I probably wasn't at my best!
> 
> ...



Hmmm, I was thinking you could flip the forks round a la Pinarello Dogma (or my more humble Wiggins) 

But lordy... With my materials engineer hat on, goodness me, that must've taken a fair old whack. 

But keep mending


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## dave r (7 Dec 2021)

13 rider said:


> As @roadrash says that might look worse than it is , If it's just the fork surely that can be replaced . Cool cylcechat sticker when were they a thing
> Good luck on your recovery



I suspect the frame might be twisted and the headset has moved, after a hit like that I'd want to write that off.


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## annedonnelly (8 Dec 2021)

Reynard said:


> Hmmm, I was thinking you could flip the forks round a la Pinarello Dogma (or my more humble Wiggins)
> 
> But lordy... With my materials engineer hat on, goodness me, that must've taken a fair old whack.
> 
> But keep mending


I think it ended up with me, bloke's bike and bloke on top. I'm only 8 stone wet through but the combined weight would be a fair bit.

Think I must be recovering as I'm starting to have enough energy to be bored. Going to have to find things I can do from my temporary bed-sit.


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## T4tomo (8 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Think I must be recovering as I'm starting to have enough energy to be bored. Going to have to find things I can do from my temporary bed-sit.


See if you can track down the witness the nurse mentioned to find out what happened and get some lawyers onto the other party if they were at fault (which they appear to be). The front wheel / forks looks a bit like a Brompton in the folded position.


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## Pale Rider (8 Dec 2021)

T4tomo said:


> See if you can track down the witness the nurse mentioned to find out what happened and get some lawyers onto the other party if they were at fault (which they appear to be). The front wheel / forks looks a bit like a Brompton in the folded position.



Worth remembering there are two witnesses, the best one probably being the other cyclist.

I'd want to speak to him before setting lawyers away, which will likely make him less cooperative.


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## annedonnelly (8 Dec 2021)

I've spoken to Leigh Day who aren't terribly hopeful. Other cyclist hasn't come forward so might be tricky to track him down. And the chance of him having any money to pay anything is pretty slim.


The more I think of it the more I think it'll be a youngish bloke cycling to work, possibly no handed, maybe with no lights. Not a "serious" cyclist who'll have some idea of the damage he's caused.

To be honest I would love to send the culprit a nasty letter explaining the damage he could've caused if he'd hit a bairn walking to the bus stop to go to school or an elderly person walking their dog. If he didn't see me with my flashing lights and bright jacket he'd never have seen them.

I hope that his broken jaw has been wired and has to stay like that all through Christmas and that he can't afford to replace his bike.


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## Pale Rider (8 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> Other cyclist hasn't come forward so might be tricky to track him down



While I (sadly) agree with your assessment of the other cyclist's likely circumstances, I suppose he doesn't know who to come forward to in the unlikely event that's what he wants to do.

He would get the same response from the cops as you did - a brush off - and in any case presumably the cops haven't recorded who you are, so couldn't help him even if they wanted to.

You can be all but certain he's local, probably very local.

Is there any merit in publishing an appeal on social media?

If I recall, you have some knowledge of local sites, and it's something you could do from the 'bedsit'.


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## I like Skol (8 Dec 2021)

Leigh Day should have no trouble tracing the other rider as the hospital should have the records required and should be able to make them available to a legal request even if they won't give them to you.

I suppose it depends what you are asking for. If you just want your bike repaired/replaced then I guess it really isn't worth their time to deal with it too enthusiastically. On the other hand, if you wish to seek compensation for your injuries (and these sound serious and may possibly have an affect on you for some time, if not forever?) then that is a bigger case and more of a worthwhile prospect for them.

In your position I would not so easily be making light of the situation when you clearly have received major injuries due to negligence of another person.

Get Leigh Day on the case and find out what the other party's position is.


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## Badger_Boom (8 Dec 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> You call it nonsense, but at 15:38 there was no legal requirements for lights to be used. The clothing and headphones are just nonsense by drivers who don't want to take responsibility for their driving.


At 1538 in York yesterday it was well on the way to being dark.

Being visible is as important as being vigilant and I prefer to what I can to make myself obvious to the less observant.


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> To be honest I would love to send the culprit a nasty letter explaining the damage he could've caused if he'd hit a bairn walking to the bus stop to go to school or an elderly person walking their dog. If he didn't see me with my flashing lights and bright jacket he'd never have seen them.


I don't know why you need to focus on the hypothetical - _your_ injuries are pretty serious!

I can't believe that at this stage you still don't know what happened!

There is something wrong when someone going about their business wakes up in hospital with only the vaguest of notions how they got there.
Surely if the Police can write it off as just one of those things they have to have some idea of the sequence of events?
If not, how can they know that there was nothing criminal or negligent?

If I've understood correctly the Police were not at the scene?
But they have told you that tracing the other rider would be straightforward through a solicitor?

I wonder if a letter to the (insert ranking officer) would be helpful?

I know you see no point in the Police investigating if there's no evidence of a crime but I'd suggest there may be more important reasons for finding out what happened.
Whether you just want to send a nasty letter or claim compensation (and you have a long road to travel yet before making that decision) I'd be concerned about the future of your cycling when the time comes again.
It's conceptual at the moment but it wouldn't be unusual that when the reality arrives that it may be far more difficult than you expect precisely because you don't know what happened.

From the beginning you have said that you were hit from behind. How do you know that? I'm not an engineer but I'm struggling to imagine an impact from behind causing that damage to your bike. To me it looks like a head on impact.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across all doom and gloom but if the truth is to come out the sooner the better.

Best of luck in your recovery


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## vickster (8 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Leigh Day should have no trouble tracing the other rider as the hospital should have the records required and should be able to make them available to a legal request even if they won't give them to you.
> 
> I suppose it depends what you are asking for. If you just want your bike repaired/replaced then I guess it really isn't worth their time to deal with it too enthusiastically. On the other hand, if you wish to seek compensation for your injuries (and these sound serious and may possibly have an affect on you for some time, if not forever?) then that is a bigger case and more of a worthwhile prospect for them.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't you actually need a name (not actually sure that is known, how would a solicitor do that without any sort of identification, it's easier when a vehhicle is involved as they should have a number plate [albeit can be false]). Also, surely a hospital must need consent to release individual medical details / records legal, request or not (or at least I would hope so in terms of patient confidentiality!)?


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## mjr (8 Dec 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> I've spoken to Leigh Day who aren't terribly hopeful. Other cyclist hasn't come forward so might be tricky to track him down. And the chance of him having any money to pay anything is pretty slim.


He might be covered by his or his family's home insurance. I wouldn't dismiss the chance so lightly when it's caused you such losses.


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## I like Skol (8 Dec 2021)

vickster said:


> Wouldn't you actually need a name (not actually sure that is known, how would a solicitor do that without any sort of identification, it's easier when a vehhicle is involved as they should have a number plate [albeit can be false]). Also, surely a hospital must need consent to release individual medical details / records legal, request or not (or at least I would hope so in terms of patient confidentiality!)?


Someone in officialdom will know the identity of the other person, be it the police, the ambulance service who presumably transported both to hospital, or the hospital administration. Anne has a right to know this and a legitimate reason to require it. There is no need to have any of the person's private medical information, just an identity for legal purposes and I expect this should be available to a solicitor following the appropriate process?


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## vickster (8 Dec 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Someone in officialdom will know the identity of the other person, be it the police, the ambulance service who presumably transported both to hospital, or the hospital administration. Anne has a right to know this and a legitimate reason to require it. There is no need to have any of the person's private medical information, just an identity for legal purposes and I expect this should be available to a solicitor following the appropriate process?


Not sure. I'll leave you to read the GDPR small print 
Although presumably Leigh Day can advise on identifying the other cyclist


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## annedonnelly (8 Dec 2021)

Thanks all. I'll try to answer everyone's queries but forgive me if I miss any.

@Pale Rider The other cyclist was walking wounded at A&E. If that had been me I'd have been asking staff to have passed on my details so that I could at least check that the other party was ok. Just saying...

@I like Skol and @vickster Police told me that a solicitor should be able to get the details from A&E. I hope that Leigh Day will be able to go down that route. They were certainly sympathetic but as they work on a no-win no-fee basis I can understand if they are cautious about taking on cases with limited chance of a result. They're going to call me again next week. I hope by then to have been in touch with the nurse. I've got a gift for her but with the weather being so crap I can hardly ask people to walk over to her house on the off chance that she'll be home.

@HobbesOnTour My brother was told by the doctor at A&E that I was hit from behind. I don't know where that information came from. Perhaps the eye witness who I don't have details of told the paramedics. Like you I was confused about the front damage to the bike but a friend has shown photos to an engineer who says that if you're hit from behind and the rear wheel lifts off the ground all the resulting weight - plus other bike and rider - comes down on the front.

My brother is amazed that I have no punctures. But they're Marathon Plus  

I can understand comments about getting compensation etc. but money isn't going to make me heal any quicker. I can't put weight on the leg for at least another four weeks and they'll start physio as soon as possible after that. It'll be more about me doing as I'm told to get strong and well again.

Very positive note is that all the medical people seem very impressed with the progress I've already made in healing. Maybe all the bimbling about on the bike has been good for me.


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## 13 rider (14 Jan 2022)

How are you doing know , How's the bike ?


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## Dogtrousers (14 Jan 2022)

annedonnelly said:


> My brother is amazed that I have no punctures. But they're Marathon Plus


Congratulations for accentuating the positive!

Keep on healing. And be gentle with yourself when you get back on to two legs. Don't be shy about walking with crutches or later on a stick if you feel you need it. I was on one leg for several months and my immobilised leg just withered away.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Congratulations for accentuating the positive!
> 
> Keep on healing. And be gentle with yourself when you get back on to two legs. Don't be shy about walking with crutches or later on a stick if you feel you need it. I was on one leg for several months and my immobilised leg just withered away.



I was in hospital for 7 days after a mountaineering accident in Alps. Even just 7 days in a bed my legs withered away. You lose muscle fast if you don’t use it. The body is ruthless.


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## simongt (14 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Keep on healing. And be gentle with yourself when you get back on to two legs


Er, when I had a broken femur after being rear ended by a car, the physio had me going round with a Zimmer frame the day after the op and the next day onwards, it was a pair of crutches - !  I then did four circuits of the ward block three times a day until discharged - !


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## annedonnelly (14 Jan 2022)

Oh yes. Even the leg I'm hopping on has lost most of the muscles.

But once I can get out and about it'll be a good excuse to have lots of gentle walks rather than going back to work and sitting at a desk.


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## simongt (15 Jan 2022)

The two 'milestone events' I remeber achieving after the leg break was; being able to go upstairs on a bus and being able to 'get my leg over' when getting on my bike again - ! 
That's when I knew everything was going to be okay - !


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## annedonnelly (16 Jan 2022)

Going upstairs in my own house would be nice 

Very excited as I'm getting a mini freezer to go in the kitchen. Mine is in the garage which is still out of bounds.


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