# You cannot outrun or ride a bad diet



## david k (23 Apr 2015)

not exercise but diet is key to weight loss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32417699


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## Tin Pot (23 Apr 2015)

david k said:


> not exercise but diet is key to weight loss
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32417699



Yep. Found this out myself last year.


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## Brandane (23 Apr 2015)

Excellent news. All I have to do is give up sugar, rather than doing what I have been doing - trying to outrun a bad diet!
Four bikes for sale. One giant screen TV wanted; and a subscription to Sky .


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## Bodhbh (23 Apr 2015)

It is hard work to burn off weight via exercise. It is much easier to watch what your eating. It's bullshit that exercise is not an option.

But then I guess they dumb it down in case everyone will go off message and eat pies all day and think a ten minute walk on a Sunday will burn it off.


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## wormo (23 Apr 2015)

What they are trying to say is that you can't have a poor diet and expect to be able excercise the extra calories off. Good diet and excercise go hand in hand. Found out to my cost as this is what I used to do.


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## Crackle (23 Apr 2015)

'Fact' caught between propoganda war, should be the headline.


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## Bodhbh (23 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> Everyone except you presumably?



And possibly you know better presumably?


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## Drago (23 Apr 2015)

That's a revelation. Until the next piece of research undermines it.


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## potsy (23 Apr 2015)

Does this mean when I have been walking to the chippy for my pudding, chips, peas and gravy instead of driving I am not having a 'free lunch' afterall?


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## Joshua Plumtree (23 Apr 2015)

Calories in, calories out. It's really not that hard, is it?

If I expend approximately 1000 extra calories on a longish bike ride and consume an extra 800 calories as a consequence, I'm gonna lose weight in the long term, am I not? 

Or am I missing something?


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## tyred (23 Apr 2015)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Calories in, calories out. It's really not that hard, is it?
> 
> If I expend approximately 1000 extra calories on a longish bike ride and consume an extra 800 calories as a consequence, I'm gonna lose weight in the long term, am I not?
> 
> Or am I missing something?



I think you must be missing the fact that boring common sense headlines don't sell newspapers!


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## Arjimlad (23 Apr 2015)

Pleased I walked past the pie counter in Tesco today !


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## Tin Pot (23 Apr 2015)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Calories in, calories out. It's really not that hard, is it?
> 
> If I expend approximately 1000 extra calories on a longish bike ride and consume an extra 800 calories as a consequence, I'm gonna lose weight in the long term, am I not?
> 
> Or am I missing something?



You are indeed missing something.

It is actually worth reading the article this time.


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## mr messy (23 Apr 2015)

Arjimlad said:


> Pleased I walked past the pie counter in Tesco today !


Why? Were they throwing freebies to the passers-by?


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## Dayvo (23 Apr 2015)

mr messy said:


> Why? Were they throwing frisbies to the passers-by?



Yep!


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## Dan B (23 Apr 2015)

"Calories in - calories out" ... OK, so how do you measure the latter?


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## John the Monkey (23 Apr 2015)

Fun trying though.


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## mr messy (23 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> "Calories in - calories out" ... OK, so how do you measure the latter?


Poopage?


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## Tin Pot (23 Apr 2015)

mr messy said:


> Poopage?



Which is the name of my new app.

I have an app to measure my activity and sleep
I have an app to record what I eat
I have an app to record my running and cycling
But what none of us have is an app to record the weight of my poop

<drum roll>

Poopage! TM


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## Dogtrousers (23 Apr 2015)

_blamed the food industry for encouraging the belief that *exercise could counteract the impact of unhealthy eating*.
[...]
messaging that is coming to the public suggests *you can eat what you like as long as you exercise*._

You know ... perhaps I've not been listening, but I've not been getting that message. I'm wondering which bits of the food industry he's thinking of. Maybe the sports energy drink people?


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## stephec (23 Apr 2015)

Is that article an early contender for the no shoot Sherlock award of the year?


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## Wafer (23 Apr 2015)

stephec said:


> Is that article an early contender for the no shoot Sherlock award of the year?


Clearly not judging by the comments on the article and some of those here.
Not all calories are equal, in cases you're better off eating a higher calorie product than a 'low-fat/no-fat' equivalent.
That's been the big lie(apparently based on some fairly flaky research years ago), counting calories is pointless if you don't consider where they come from and what form they take.


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## Tin Pot (23 Apr 2015)

The calorie is a bit of a joke IMO.

We extract energy from food chemically, but the calorie is calculated by combusting food.


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## Dan B (23 Apr 2015)

Wafer said:


> Not all calories are equal


From my understanding, all calories are calories (more or less, anyway) but some foods are more likely to leave you wanting more of them than feeling full. And the people selling them to us would rather we didn't realise this.


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## Dan B (23 Apr 2015)

stephec said:


> Is that article an early contender for the no shoot Sherlock award of the year?


It's worth clicking through to the actual paper


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## Tin Pot (23 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> From my understanding, all calories are calories (more or less, anyway) but some foods are more likely to leave you wanting more of them than feeling full. And the people selling them to us would rather we didn't realise this.


In short, no.


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## Dan B (23 Apr 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> In short, no.


How so?


> Coca Cola, who spent $3.3 billion on advertising in 2013, pushes a message that ‘all calories count’; they associate their products with sport, suggesting it is ok to consume their drinks as long as you exercise. However science tells us this is misleading and wrong. It is where the calories come from that is crucial. Sugar calories promote fat storage and hunger. Fat calories induce fullness or ‘satiation’.


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## screenman (23 Apr 2015)

Takes a minute to eat a doughnut, takes 30 minutes of hard excersise or more to burn off. Not many people excersise, plenty eat doughnuts.


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## Drago (23 Apr 2015)

david k said:


> not exercise but diet is key to weight loss
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32417699


The big problem is, I know someone who did exactly that.

He was a big sweaty lad, diabetic, a real heiffer. One day he decided he had enough so started running. Not far at first, but eventually worked up to some big daily mileages. Hasn't changed his diet one bit and still drinks like a fish, all he did was start exercising to a high degree. Adios to a third of his bodyweight.


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## screenman (23 Apr 2015)

Without keeping a log I guess of us know how many calories we put down.


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## Wafer (23 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> From my understanding, all calories are calories (more or less, anyway) but some foods are more likely to leave you wanting more of them than feeling full. And the people selling them to us would rather we didn't realise this.



Yes, good point, more that calories consumed do not equal calories 'gained'. Something similar with cholesterol too.


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## pclay (23 Apr 2015)

I have lost half a stone over the last few weeks, by simply counting calories and riding my bike. It's so easy to eat too much in a day. Going to bed with hunger pains is a good sign that you will loose weight.


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## Twinks (24 Apr 2015)

pclay said:


> I have lost half a stone over the last few weeks, by simply counting calories and riding my bike. It's so easy to eat too much in a day. Going to bed with hunger pains is a good sign that you will loose weight.


 sleep!


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## david k (24 Apr 2015)

Wafer said:


> Yes, good point, more that calories consumed do not equal calories 'gained'. Something similar with cholesterol too.



How do you mean?


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## jefmcg (24 Apr 2015)

Drago said:


> The big problem is, I know someone who did exactly that.
> 
> He was a big sweaty lad, diabetic, a real heiffer. One day he decided he had enough so started running. Not far at first, but eventually worked up to some big daily mileages. Hasn't changed his diet one bit and still drinks like a fish, all he did was start exercising to a high degree. Adios to a third of his bodyweight.


http://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/jim-fixx-running-guru.html



> At the time of his death, the whole country believed that running was healthful because Jim Fixx had transformed himself from an ugly, obese smoker into an attractive svelte runner who appeared to be at the peak of health. On his many television shows and other public appearances, he would bring out his old pants with a waistband of more than 50 inches that could easily fit three men, and hold them up against his slim, muscular body.
> [..]
> Jim Fixx’s autopsy showed that what was inside his body was much different from what appeared on the outside. The three main arteries leading to his heart were almost completely blocked with plaques and the autopsy showed that he had had at least three heart attacks weeks before the one that killed him. His other arteries were filled with plaques also.
> 
> ...


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## Drago (24 Apr 2015)

That's all very nice, my the chap I am referring to isn't Jim Fixx and is already somewhat older than him.


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## Tin Pot (24 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> How so?


Because it's more than just about calories - the article explains it.

Calories are like the 19th century approach to food.

Setting fire to food and measuring how much it heats water tells you not a great deal about the foods affect on your health.


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## Dan B (24 Apr 2015)

I can't tell whether or not you've read the article, but you certainly don't appear to have read my posts.

Never mind


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## Drago (24 Apr 2015)

Perhaps he had better things to do. Like yawning.


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## jefmcg (24 Apr 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Setting fire to food and measuring how much it heats water tells you not a great deal about the foods affect on your health.


Or indeed, how much of the food you actually digest. Calories in corn in based on the complete combustion of it. But it's very obvious that we don't complete break down corn.

(TMI?)


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## raleighnut (24 Apr 2015)

Inactivity certainly plays a part though, my diet hasn't changed but being laid up with my broken femur caused me to gain around 3 stone over the past 18 months. Hopefully once I get back onto 2 wheels (instead of the trike with the electric kit) it'll come off again.
Before anyone suggests that I don't use the electric power I will say that it is a 'double edged sword' scenario in that I can't get up hills without it but the extra weight makes the trike very slow without using it....................At least it got me mobile again (I don't drive) and the physical act of pedalling is great for regaining mobility in my leg, in fact my physiotherapist is quite 'blown away' by the progress I have made.


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## ColinJ (24 Apr 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Inactivity certainly plays a part though, my diet hasn't changed but being laid up with my broken femur caused me to gain around 3 stone over the past 18 months.


Yes, activity levels and calories required are obviously connected, but you failed to compensate for your lack of activity during those 18 months. Ideally, you would have noticed the first half stone go on and cut back on your food. I made the same mistake though, which is how I put 4 stone on after being slim aged 50 (see avatar photo on left).

My experience with enforced inactivity was the opposite. When I had my initially undiagnosed DVT/PE in 2012 my activity level was the lowest it has ever been. I could barely even make myself a cup of tea. I spent a month in bed and during that time lost about 2 stone in weight. The difference is that I pretty much stopped eating as well. I not only lost fat, but also much of my muscle too. My legs ended up horribly skinny.

The ideal way of losing weight is probably to do regular exercise for health and fitness, and average (say) 750 cals a day less in food and drink intake than you are using up. That should produce a loss of about 1.5 lbs a week without negative effects on your muscle mass.


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## Tin Pot (24 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Or indeed, how much of the food you actually digest. Calories in corn in based on the complete combustion of it. But it's very obvious that we don't complete break down corn.
> 
> (TMI?)



You're still focussing on the calorie - the article is about your health.

What is the total effect of the food you consume.


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## jefmcg (24 Apr 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> You're still focussing on the calorie - the article is about your health.
> 
> What is the total effect of the food you consume.


No, I'm not. I just mentioning what I think is an interesting fact.


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## moo (24 Apr 2015)

The bigger question is why would anyone want to run.


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## Dan B (24 Apr 2015)

moo said:


> The bigger question is why would anyone want to run.


To escape the tigers


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## lee1980sim (24 Apr 2015)

So does that mean no chippy today?
But it's Friday...


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## yello (24 Apr 2015)

We think along the same lines Tin Pot.

We're not simple furnaces. The calorific value of something doesn't really tell us anything about how the human digestive system will process it. Think about it; petrol has a calorific value, as does a length of 4x2. Nobody suggests you literally 'fuel' your ride on BP green energy eco diesel! Clearly, the body is doing something different with calories; dependant on a myriad of factors.

I think calorific values are broadly useful in that they give a consistent means of comparing food stuffs. It's kind of arbitrary but you can see how it might be useful.

I think the 'calories in, calories out' message is given (and repeated) because it's simple to remember, has an intuitive appeal and, broadly speaking, works for a lot of people. It's a rule of thumb, like '5-a-day' fruit and veg.

I don't however think it leads to an accurate picture of what actually happens 
in our digestive systems. That's maybe a moot point, given that that simplistic model does work for many wanting to lose weight, but I think it fails others who are genuinely trying, doing everything 'right' and still not shifting the kilos.


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## Wafer (24 Apr 2015)

david k said:


> How do you mean?


Some of the other posts may have already covered this but basically just because you eat something that contains say 500 calories, does not mean you put on 500 calories. It's too simplistic a view.

And I've read something similar about cholesterol. Just because you consume something with a lot of it, does not mean you absorb/gain it.

The article is also quite specific in that it says the diet thing is about obesity. Exercise is of course another part of a healthy life style, but in terms of obesity itself, diet is far and away the biggest thing to get on top of. Unfortunately the things you might think are the right things to eat, may be the wrong things. Which is where it gets difficult for people to believe the science as it contradicts itself.


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## pclay (24 Apr 2015)

Surely if you eat 3500 cals worth of vegetables every day, and do no exercise, you will put on weight??


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## CopperCyclist (24 Apr 2015)

Rubbish. My diet is awful, truly awful. 

Before cycling I was 15 stone, I now bounce between 12 and 13. Never changed my habits. 

One or the other, or both work for weight loss. 

For overall health, I agree you need both.


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## yello (24 Apr 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> For overall health, I agree you need both.



I don't think anyone disputes that! Certainly not the article.


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## TheJDog (24 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> To escape the tigers



And even then I only have to run faster than you


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## poynedexter (26 Apr 2015)

the questions to ask are thus:

why do we store body fat? how do we reduce body fat? these are chemical processes, not calories in and calories out maths. we have hormones which regulate fat storage, hunger, fullness. did you know that the fat in your belly is different from the fat in your food? the fat in your blood stream after eating is different from the fat in your belly too. in order to store fat, chemical changes happen to allow it. nothing to do with calories.

since we are all different, our hormone levels are different and the chemical reactions at the fat cell wall can vary.

excess eating or reduced eating of calories does not lead to fat change, unless the chemistry allows it. excess carbohydrate in the diet creates the perfect chemical enviroment to store fat because it promotes insulin release.

control your blood sugar, to control your weight. exercise for health.


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## User16625 (28 Apr 2015)

Holy shoot this dieting stuff is like rocket science...........except astronauts tend to lose or gain weight rather quickly. 

I eat when im hungry. When im hungry I eat what is available at the time and also try to choose food I like. Animals having being doing this since well before dinosaurs and it wasnt a problem for them, so its not a problem for me either.


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## Dan B (28 Apr 2015)

I lost 3kg between January and March with no change in my diet or exercise "regime". Calories in vs out is definitely not the whole story


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## pclay (28 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> I lost 3kg between January and March with no change in my diet or exercise "regime". Calories in vs out is definitely not the whole story


Impossible, unless you were already loosing. Something must have changed.


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## Dan B (28 Apr 2015)

pclay said:


> Impossible, unless you were already loosing. Something must have changed.


Yes and yes. My hormone levels


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## poynedexter (29 Apr 2015)

do animals count calories or eat processed food? no. (well domestic pets are fed processed food and many are obese). do animals get fat? not really, unless nature determins that they need to, to survive.

cals in vs cals out? i'm about the same weight this last year and have no idea of cals in or out. if i ate about 100 cals over each day, that would be 36500 cals per yr. i should be 10 lbs heavier. how much is 100 cals over a day, not much i'd say, so ive been pretty lucky to get the cals in out numbers.

some food our bodies will convert to stored fat, some it wont. food timing, food combinations and hormones are the major factor. avoid processed sugary foods, unless you are needing them as part of your racing and training. during hard exercise your body will be happy to use it as fuel. off the bike, real food will make your less hungry, have fewer cravings and encourage fat loss, regardless of calories. your energy will increase and health improve.

eat butter eggs fish cheese meat yogurt oats fruits veg nuts seeds salads milk.
avoid sugar choclate crisps biscuits bread breakfast cereals (save porridge) fast food places alcohol fruit juice fizzy drinks sports drinks
an odd dip into the avoid list does no harm now and then.


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## screenman (29 Apr 2015)

I lost 9 or 10lb over Xmas without even getting out of bed, I got the calories in bit right for weight loss that is for sure. Certainly not healthy.


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## Fab Foodie (29 Apr 2015)

pclay said:


> Surely if you eat 3500 cals worth of vegetables every day, and do no exercise, you will put on weight??


All things being equal .... Yes, but that assumes that all of the 3500 calories present in the carrots are available to to you.


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## poynedexter (29 Apr 2015)

good luck trying to eat 3500 cals in veg in a normal day. 3500 cals in sugary crap would be easy however.


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## Dan B (29 Apr 2015)

poynedexter said:


> good luck trying to eat 3500 cals in veg in a normal day. 3500 cals in sugary crap would be easy however.


23 avocados. Yeah., wouldn't really be a very normal day


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## Dogtrousers (29 Apr 2015)

According to my (almost certainly wrong) calculations: Just over half a kilo of salted peanuts should do you your 3500 cal. However you'd be looking at something like 8kg of Brussels sprouts (even I would balk at that) or nearly 2kg of avocado.

Or 8 1/2 Danish pastries or four Soreen loaves.

My attempts to out ride a bad diet are normally foiled by those pesky pork pies that smuggle themselves into my handlebar bag and leap out at me when I stop, thinking I'm safe.


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## moo (29 Apr 2015)

poynedexter said:


> eat butter eggs fish cheese meat yogurt oats fruits veg nuts seeds salads milk.



Add basmati rice and that's been my daily diet for the past 4 months (replace meat with the odd liver). I'm 10st and consume around 3500 calories a day due to training. My weight hasn't budged all year.

It's difficult to over-eat on a healthy diet as most foods are low in calories. Without sugar you also won't over-eat on the fatty foods. It's the combination of fat and sugar that is so addictive.

My diet is "Gluten free, Sugar free, Lactose free, Meat free". Basically ignoring 95% of the food sold in supermarkets.


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## Twinks (29 Apr 2015)

moo said:


> Add basmati rice and that's been my daily diet for the past 4 months (replace meat with the odd liver). I'm 10st and consume around 3500 calories a day due to training. My weight hasn't budged all year.
> 
> It's difficult to over-eat on a healthy diet as most foods are low in calories. Without sugar you also won't over-eat on the fatty foods. It's the combination of fat and sugar that is so addictive.
> 
> My diet is "Gluten free, Sugar free, Lactose free, Meat free". Basically ignoring 95% of the food sold in supermarkets.



Assume you can't have milk, butter, yoghourt and cheese if you're lactose free?

Fascinated! What on earth DO you eat? (apart from basmati rice)


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## pclay (29 Apr 2015)

Lilmo said:


> Fascinated! What on earth DO you eat? (apart from basmati rice)



Vegetabes


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## jonny jeez (29 Apr 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Which is the name of my new app.
> 
> I have an app to measure my activity and sleep
> I have an app to record what I eat
> ...


Surely pooprava or poopemodo.

I think you need to carefully reconsider your marketing strategy, I fear you are not taking this seriously


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## jefmcg (29 Apr 2015)

> *[...]* the fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete while on the planet is surgically removed from your body weight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatory there it is vitally important to get a receipt.


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## moo (29 Apr 2015)

Lilmo said:


> Assume you can't have milk, butter, yoghourt and cheese if you're lactose free?
> 
> Fascinated! What on earth DO you eat? (apart from basmati rice)



Lidl sell cheap lactose free yoghurt - I eat a 500ml pot per day. I also get thru plenty of lactose free cheese and milk. As for butter I've substituted it for soya spread. 

My veg/fruit portions per day is about 12, half veg half fruit. My stomach has no room for high energy unhealthy foods


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## jefmcg (29 Apr 2015)

Do you have lactose and gluten allergies?


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## Tin Pot (29 Apr 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> Surely pooprava or poopemodo.
> 
> I think you need to carefully reconsider your marketing strategy, I fear you are not taking this seriously



MapMyLav

- GPS tracking of lavatories used
- time of entry and exit
- number of strains
- clarity of urine
- weight of poop

Synchs with PooBit Flex and MyUrinalPal

Celebrity support from:


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## moo (29 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Do you have lactose and gluten allergies?



Sadly yes. I suffered for years with no help from my doctor. Cutting both from my diet has eradicated all issues, verified with a few failed attempts to reintroduce those foods.


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## Dan B (29 Apr 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> Surely pooprava or poopemodo.


Mycyclinglog


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## TheJDog (29 Apr 2015)

poynedexter said:


> do animals count calories or eat processed food? no. (well domestic pets are fed processed food and many are obese). do animals get fat? not really, unless nature determins that they need to, to survive.



Most animals do get fat as winter comes. It's quite natural. I don't know why anyone thinks humans shouldn't have a propensity to put on weight when it is a perfectly natural thing to do.


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## summerdays (29 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> 23 avocados. Yeah., wouldn't really be a very normal day


I don't think it would be a normal night or day after either


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## Twinks (29 Apr 2015)

moo said:


> Sadly yes. I suffered for years with no help from my doctor. Cutting both from my diet has eradicated all issues, verified with a few failed attempts to reintroduce those foods.



That must have been very difficult, at least at first, to source food without those ingredients and ensure good nutrition. Glad you have now found a way to manage it.


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## wam68 (30 Apr 2015)

I eat a lot more than some of my associates but weigh less than most of them. Is it a genetic thing or is it just that I train a lot. I like to think it's down to training.. Who knows ??.


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## poynedexter (30 Apr 2015)

yes its how your body deals with the food. not calories in vs calories out. you may have a high base metabolic rate too (tick over).


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## John the Monkey (6 May 2015)

The piece has, apparently, been withdrawn;

http://road.cc/content/news/150474-myth-physical-activity-and-obesity-editorial-suspended-journal


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## yello (7 May 2015)

Seemingly, the report was suspended due to "an expression of concern" over "some undeclared conflicts of interests".



> These undeclared conflicts of interest include Noakes – a long-distance runner – being the author of best-selling books such as The Real Meal Revolution.



(from http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/exercise-doesn-t-combat-obesity-study-suspended-by-journal/017813)

I enjoyed reading the comments on the road.cc article. Not as one-sided as they might have been several years ago.


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## wam68 (7 May 2015)

. Cheeky blighters and to think they almost had me. Tut tut.


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## samsbike (22 Jun 2015)

I have read most of this thread but am still confused how to fuel on longer rides.

Most of what I do is carbs - (I can cut out the cake) - malted loaf, raisins, bananas etc.

What alternatives could I be having?


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## ianrauk (22 Jun 2015)

samsbike said:


> I have read most of this thread but am still confused how to fuel on longer rides.
> 
> Most of what I do is carbs - (I can cut out the cake) - malted loaf, raisins, bananas etc.
> 
> What alternatives could I be having?





For long rides (100 miles+)
Egg and bacon sarnies.
Fish and chips
Beans on toast
or what ever I can get my hands on..


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## Joshua Plumtree (22 Jun 2015)

Used to weigh North of 20 stone ( gave up weighing myself at this point!). 

Seven years later, I'm under 12 stone and have been for a couple of years.

Not once did I diet during that period, just plenty of weightlifting, walking, Badminton and, more recently, cycling.

Yes I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables etc. but I also consume chocolate, cake and ice-cream.

So, you could say I'm a little biased and take such articles with a pinch of salt - literally!


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## david k (28 Jun 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> Rubbish. My diet is awful, truly awful.
> 
> Before cycling I was 15 stone, I now bounce between 12 and 13. Never changed my habits.
> 
> ...



I don't think it's rubbish you may have a high metabolism which would explain this


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