# Hitting a wall at 160bpm



## Firm Button (28 Sep 2018)

im new to cycling but have worked up to do 150km every week in 3 rides a week. But I’m finding that when riding with experienced cyclists I’m left behind very easily on hills (to be expected I suppose) I am finding I can keep up un my heart rate hits 160 bpm or above my lungs just cant get enough air in. And I end up on the lowest gears and slowing to a crawl.
Any advice on how to get up to snuff? 
Steve


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## DCBassman (28 Sep 2018)

So long as no other health issues, I'd say just stick at it, but don't forget to rest sometimes also. Instead of one ride, go for a long walk occasionally, let the other muscle groups catch up a bit.


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## Milkfloat (28 Sep 2018)

Ride more, lose weight and pace yourself on the early part of the hill.


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## Bazzer (28 Sep 2018)

Practice.
IME the more hills you do, the easier they become; although some will always be hard work. Also try to relax into the climb and get your rhythm, not that of other riders.


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## nickAKA (28 Sep 2018)

Firm Button said:


> im new to cycling but have worked up to do 150km every week in 3 rides a week. But I’m finding that when riding with experienced cyclists I’m left behind very easily on hills (to be expected I suppose) I am finding I can keep up un my heart rate hits 160 bpm or above my lungs just cant get enough air in. And I end up on the lowest gears and slowing to a crawl.
> Any advice on how to get up to snuff?
> Steve



Assuming you're of a "certain age" ie. no spring chicken like my good self, the upper limit of your heart rate won't improve much if my experiences are anything to go by. You will however, with increased fitness & training, become more efficient and be able to put out more power at your current 'comfortable' heart rate and recover much quicker across the board.
I top out and have to recover at ~180bpm; this has always been the case, but I can do a lot more at <180bpm than I could 12 months ago so I rarely venture into that realm because it's deeply unpleasant...
I'm nearly 47 and have lost quite a bit of timber over the last 12 months; in real world terms that weight loss & increased fitness has turned me into a capable climber rather than a gibbering wreck on the hills, so stick at it, hard work will get you there!


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## Bonefish Blues (28 Sep 2018)

Hidden motor like the pros, shirley?


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## ColinJ (28 Sep 2018)

Climbing hills more quickly is (mostly) about power-to-weight ratio and it is much easier for most people to lose weight than to gain power. 

I used to absolutely grovel up every steep hill that I came to but I lost nearly 4 stone in weight and can now get up them without any problems. I'm not quick, but I don't feel as though they are killing me any more. 

I do aim to get quicker but gaining power is taking me a lot longer than losing the weight did!


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## nickAKA (28 Sep 2018)

Bazzer said:


> Practice.
> IME the more hills you do, the easier they become; although some will always be hard work. Also try to relax into the climb and get your rhythm, not that of other riders.



"It never gets easier, you just get faster" as Greg Lemond said.
As you say just get into a comfortable rhythm and spin away, don't worry about what anyone else is doing. I can only go at one cadence when going up hill. Some people I ride away from, others I lag behind. Happy to report it's more the former than the latter nowadays.


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## Dec66 (28 Sep 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> Ride more, lose weight and pace yourself on the early part of the hill.


Amen.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Find some slower people to ride with.


Amen.


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## Racing roadkill (28 Sep 2018)

Try not to death grip the bars when your climbing, and relax your shoulders. This will free up some oxygen demand, and allow your leg muscles to get more of the oxygen they need.


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## Phaeton (28 Sep 2018)

Firm Button said:


> And I end up on the lowest gears and slowing to a crawl.
> Steve


Is this an issue? 
There is no magic cure, don't stress it, don't let it get to you, don;t try too hard & practise will pay off, you may still hit the red zone, but then find recovering will take less time, but slowly it will come together, as somebody else has said if the people you are riding with are faster & they are not prepared to wait for you, find somebody else to ride with, because unless they were super fit before they started to ride they've been through it.


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## MikeG (28 Sep 2018)

Firm Button said:


> im new to cycling but have worked up to do 150km every week in 3 rides a week. But I’m finding that when riding with experienced cyclists I’m left behind very easily on hills (to be expected I suppose) I am finding I can keep up un my heart rate hits 160 bpm or above my lungs just cant get enough air in. And I end up on the lowest gears and slowing to a crawl.
> Any advice on how to get up to snuff?
> Steve



How much do you weigh?

Climbing hills is about shifting weight upwards. Smaller people have a greater power-to-weight ratio than larger people, assuming equal levels of fitness. If you want to climb hills better, you need to be as fit as you can be, you need strong legs, you need decent technique, but above all, you need to be small.


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## boydj (28 Sep 2018)

A short, sharp interval session once a week would help your heart/lung fitness. Squats and stair climbing will help the leg strength and can be done anytime. And make the time to rest and recover.


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## Soltydog (28 Sep 2018)

As some have said, the more you do them the better you'll become  Might be worth changing your cassette to a larger one if possible, you can never have enough gears for climbing & don't get bogged down with stats. Depending on your age/weight etc 160bpm might be about right. Mine used to be around 170, but I don't wear a HRM nowadays so don't know what I run at now. I've been tackling a lot more hills this year & can feel that I've improved significantly. Did some tough steep hills in West Yorkshire earlier this week & despite being around 15 stone I'm in the top 50% of times on Strava, inside top 15% on the steepest of the climbs & I doubt all the slower riders are heavier than me 
Just keep plugging away mate & you'll reap the benefits one day


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## IanSmithCSE (29 Sep 2018)

Good morning,

In the past I have usually had a routine of 2-3 years of lots of exercise and 2-3 years of work enforced idleness, my last three jobs were 127 miles, 100 miles and 40 miles (slow roads) commutes each way.

Most times when I started to get fit again I included a weight training element, as I learnt this at school I was happy joining a gym without a specialist cycling coach.

This time I started without any weight training and it was much harder and I wasn't making as much progress as I expected, so I added the weights back in a progress blossomed.

Actually I had a false start as I started in the winter on a fancy stationary bike with a tablet that showed routes through, Paris, Cote d'Azure etc.

I am lucky as I live 5 minutes walk from a small gym that doesn't have many body builders slamming weights down and loud pop music

Without weights you can boost your progress by finding a short and steep hill and ride up and down it for 20 minutes rather than carrying on with your ride but this is very boring.

I also have a ride once a week that is only 14 miles long but I do it flat out, I mean getting home dripping sweat, this seams to help to increase lung capacity, as does running.

If you find a gym or go jogging I wouldn't be surprised that you can find a running speed where you would be breathing much more deeply than you do when cycling but can maintain for 15-20 minutes. If you don't run at the moment this may be something like 6-7mph.

Bye

Ian


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## Drago (29 Sep 2018)

There are all sorts of things you can do, but...

...is it really a big deal? You don't say how old you are, but for me at very nearly 50 it certainly doesn't matter. On a steep climb I often have to drop to a low cog, but I still get to the top come what may.

Like Ian Smith above, I lift as well. My reasons are different, I clang and bang big iron for mass, but it can benefit riding too. Makes the muscles more efficient at extracting what it needs from the blood, and increases capillary flow so allows the blood to get around the place more efficiently.


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## Racing roadkill (29 Sep 2018)

People are often surprised that cycling doesn’t require a lot of strength. If you can hop on one leg, without collapsing in a heap, you have sufficient leg strength. If you supplement your riding with something like gym stuff, ensure your doing them in a way that encourages endurance, not mass / strength. So high reps, done quickly, with relatively low weight. When you’re riding hills, try to keep the riding as efficient as possible, so remain seated for as long as possible ( maintain as many contact points with the bike as you can ) ride in a gear that allows you to maintain a cadence of 80-90 rpms, for as long as possible ( you’ll be making whatever power you’re making, most efficiently then) try to keep your arms and shoulders as relaxed as you can, resist the temptation to death grip the bars, that will reduce the oxygen demand to muscles other than the ones that are most important. If you do have to stand, keep your back straight, head up, hips forward. The more hills you do, the better you’ll get at them.


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## nickyboy (29 Sep 2018)

Max heart rate isn't a good metric. We are all differebt. 160 may be your max heart rate at threshold power

What matters is extracting max power at, for example, 160bpm. Two things;

If you're overweight, lose weight

Cycle up hills as hard as you can. Do interval sessions if you have time and can handle the boredom


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## irw (29 Sep 2018)

Did anyone else misread the title as 'Hitting a wall at 160mph'?


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Sep 2018)

MikeG said:


> Smaller people have a greater power-to-weight ratio than larger people, assuming equal levels of fitness. If you want to climb hills better, you need to be as fit as you can be, you need strong legs, you need decent technique, but above all, you need to be small.



Power to weight ratio depends on how much of your bodyweight is useful muscle, and how much of it is lard. Being small in stature is no advantage if you aren't physically strong. There's also the question of the ratio of bike weight to rider weight, where a strong heavy rider on a light bike will have an advantage over a smaller lighter rider whose bike is a greater percentage of their bodyweight.


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## MikeG (29 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Power to weight ratio depends on how much of your bodyweight is useful muscle, and how much of it is lard. Being small in stature is no advantage if you aren't physically strong. There's also the question of the ratio of bike weight to rider weight, where a strong heavy rider on a light bike will have an advantage over a smaller lighter rider whose bike is a greater percentage of their bodyweight.



I did say "assuming equal levels of fitness", which makes your first point redundant. I said "you need strong legs", which makes your second point redundant. As for your third, if this point (bike weight: body weight ratio) were true, Petr Sagan would beat Yates, Froome and Geraint Thomas to the top of every hill. He doesn't. So, I'll say again, all things being equal, the small guy will beat the big guy up the hill. If you want to go up a hill faster, get smaller.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Sep 2018)

Sounds like our HR is similar. My max is 170. That hasn’t changed in the last year, but with improved fitness I just find it easier and I can work longer at a higher HR (like 160) I can happily chug for hours on end at about 130.

And like it was said upthread, we are all different. I was watching a video of an older guy doing the PBP (1400km?) where his virb camera also showed his HR. Rarely did you see it over about 115BPM !


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## Racing roadkill (29 Sep 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> And like it was said upthread, we are all different. I was watching a video of an older guy doing the PBP (1400km?) where his virb camera also showed his HR. Rarely did you see it over about 115BPM !


That’s because he was doing an LSD ride. You want to keep your power / HR in a relatively low zone ( 2 or 3 ) for as long as possible, to prevent having to refuel too often on this type of ride.


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## nickAKA (1 Oct 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Sounds like our HR is similar. My max is 170. That hasn’t changed in the last year, but with improved fitness I just find it easier and I can work longer at a higher HR (like 160) I can happily chug for hours on end at about 130.



Somebody (a bloke on a bike obviously) told me to take your max heart rate & subtract your age to get your 'all day ride' endurance heart rate - it's absolutely spot on in my case. When I'm out doing a shorter training ride I aim to average 10bpm over this figure to add a bit of extra stress in without overdoing it, and this works for me perfectly.


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## Racing roadkill (1 Oct 2018)

nickAKA said:


> Somebody (a bloke on a bike obviously) told me to take your max heart rate & subtract your age to get your 'all day ride' endurance heart rate - it's absolutely spot on in my case. When I'm out doing a shorter training ride I aim to average 10bpm over this figure to add a bit of extra stress in without overdoing it, and this works for me perfectly.


There are more scientific ways of determining it now. FTP determination and ‘4DP’ will give you accurate HR / power zones with which to work.


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## gilespargiter (1 Oct 2018)

^^ Yes it very much depends on how long and how much you have been doing. There is many a 60yr old who can completely make a nonsense of an average 20yr old's stats, (and apparently they are worried about paying our pensions - I'm concerned about there medical bills!!).


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## nickAKA (2 Oct 2018)

gilespargiter said:


> ^^ Yes it very much depends on how long and how much you have been doing. There is many a 60yr old who can completely make a nonsense of an average 20yr old's stats, (and apparently they are worried about paying our pensions - I'm concerned about there medical bills!!).



Yeah I guess the older you get whilst maintaining your base fitness the less true it becomes, works the opposite if you're young and unfit!


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## Ticktockmy (2 Oct 2018)

Hard to give advice as we are all different. I am in my late 70's and happily out cycle some much younger guys.. over a shorter distance before I become knackered. mind a lot more do wiss by leaving me in thier dust trail so it all swings and roundabouts. The thing about Heart rates is also confusing. The old way of using 220 minus age, gives me a MHR or 143 whereas the current idea of using 214-(0.8X77) gives me 152.4 so I work my training at the higher figure.. As I have a low 50's resting heart rate from years of cycling, running and mountaineering I really struggle to even get near to my MHR even on the trainer. Having consulted my doctor at one stage about by low resting heart rate, he sugggested after doing all the test I was very fit or dead. So I think if you have any concerns that things are not happening as they should get a medicial check, better safe than sorry. As an after thought the womens rate is worked out as 209-(0.9xage)


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## ColinJ (2 Oct 2018)

Your MHR is what your MHR is, not what some calculation says that it should be! 

I hit 199 bpm on a 25% climb into a headwind once and I reckon I was maybe 2 or 3 beats off my maximum. (I didn't actually fall off my bike with the effort, but I didn't have much effort left!) I was in my mid-30s at the time so 220-age would have given me about 185 bpm. Another formula that I have seen is 207 - (0.7 x age), which would have given me about 182 bpm. Both clearly significantly wrong for me at the time!

I was also 'abnormal' at the other extreme, having a RHR of 33-34 bpm.

It shows that using a formula is probably a waste of time. It might be right, it might be very wrong.


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## davidphilips (2 Oct 2018)

Other than all the great advice already given, you could just keep up with what you are doing at present , riding with more/better experienced cyclists 3 times a week you should improve quite a bit, main thing is keep at it and as long as your diet and rest is ok i would be very surprised if you dont speed up and indeed keep up very soon, good luck.


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## Kestevan (17 Oct 2018)

In my experience the biggest single thig you can do to make hills easier/quicker is to Lose weight.

I've gone from 18st to 14st in the last few months and I've found hills just a tad easier 

I recon by the time I'm down to 12.5 I should be able to keep up with @I like Skol at least on some of the hills. My goal is to not give @nickyboy anyone to hide behind on next years Llandudno ride


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## User76022 (13 Nov 2018)

Firm Button said:


> im new to cycling but have worked up to do 150km every week in 3 rides a week. But I’m finding that when riding with experienced cyclists I’m left behind very easily on hills (to be expected I suppose) I am finding I can keep up un my heart rate hits 160 bpm or above my lungs just cant get enough air in. And I end up on the lowest gears and slowing to a crawl.
> Any advice on how to get up to snuff?
> Steve


Depending on how old you are, isn't 160bpm getting close to your max heart rate anyway? 

As for breathing. Do you use your full lung capacity on everything breath? Sounds like a daft question but most adults don't.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Nov 2018)

Can we please get away from 220 - max age nonsense? It is fairly meaningless and not based on any science.


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## lane (13 Nov 2018)

I read in a document recently - can't remember where - it gave "typical" HR zones which would have matched a max HR of about 180 and a threshold HR of around 170. Interestingly the zones matched mine very closely and I'm 56. 160 would be upper end of tempo for me.


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## beepbeep (13 Nov 2018)

51 yrs of age...max heart rate this year was 187bpm....blowing out of my backside !!!!


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## Bonefish Blues (13 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Can we please get away from 220 - max age nonsense? It is fairly meaningless and not based on any science.


Is there a more scientific method?


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## lane (13 Nov 2018)

Well you could do a test for it. Or better yet (and less stressful or risky) set your zones using the Threshold HR test which is well documented on the web - for example on the British Cycling Website.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/search?s=Heart+rate+zones&p=1

I did a DIY max HR test about 8 years ago. I have more recently done the Threshold HR test. Setting my zones by either method has given me more or less the same result and I don't really think they have changed much over the intervening years although in theory the max HR goes down with age.


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## lane (13 Nov 2018)

Of course max HR rates are individual and nothing to do with performance in that a higher HR does not indicate higher performance. If the OP does have a max HR of 160 then no wonder he hits a wall when he reaches it. However having done a max HR test its not something I would expect cyclists to routinely reach - I have never again got to my max HR in eight years of cycling.


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## HLaB (13 Nov 2018)

I was hitting the wall all summer around 70-80% max hr for me. Stubbornness would see me carry on but it'd be 12-14mph. It turns out my iron levels were catastrophically low. A month of iron tablets I'm back to cruising at 70-80% max hr (141-161) and hitting 97% max HR (193bpm) without hitting that proverbial wall.


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## ColinJ (13 Nov 2018)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Is there a more scientific method?


Measure it!


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## Phaeton (13 Nov 2018)

HLaB said:


> It turns out my iron levels were catastrophically low.


Being nosey how did you find that out?


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## HLaB (13 Nov 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Being nosey how did you find that out?


Blood test.


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## davidphilips (14 Nov 2018)

HLaB said:


> I was hitting the wall all summer around 70-80% max hr for me. Stubbornness would see me carry on but it'd be 12-14mph. It turns out my iron levels were catastrophically low. A month of iron tablets I'm back to cruising at 70-80% max hr (141-161) and hitting 97% max HR (193bpm) without hitting that proverbial wall.



What i found out about iron levels is that the more you sweat (cycling ) the more you lose iron so perhaps an iron tablet every third day or so may be good to maintain good iron levels, thats what i have started on any way.


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## ColinJ (14 Nov 2018)

davidphilips said:


> What i found out about iron levels is that the more you sweat (cycling ) the more you lose iron so perhaps an iron tablet every third day or so may be good to maintain good iron levels, thats what i have started on any way.


Be careful not to overdo it!



NHS guidelines said:


> *What happens if I take too much iron?*
> 
> Side effects of taking high doses (over 20mg) of iron include:
> 
> ...


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## User76022 (14 Nov 2018)

davidphilips said:


> What i found out about iron levels is that the more you sweat (cycling ) the more you lose iron so perhaps an iron tablet every third day or so may be good to maintain good iron levels, thats what i have started on any way.


If you are eating right and there are no underlying medical conditions, it's unlikely you are iron deficient.

You don't lose much iron in sweat.

If you were iron deficient, it would probably present in other ways like general fatigue all the time, dizziness etc.


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## Bonefish Blues (14 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Measure it!


Forgive me and my ignorance*, but what does that mean?

*Hence the question...


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## fossyant (14 Nov 2018)

Iron doesn't come out in sweat... it's a diet issue. Everyone is different, but I can still hit 185 bpm at 48 years old - I saw it at about 205 when I was early 20's chasing a club mate in a TTT training session - needless to say I didn't hang on long... I've had clubmates that were 'younger' than I am now not hit much more than 160 max, so it's only relevant to you.


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## fossyant (14 Nov 2018)

With me, in more recent years, my issue has been haematocrit. Had a bit of an issue a few years ago, and I felt like crap. Had full blood counts done, and Testosterone and haematocrit were low - felt like poop. It was down to a farked up snip and additional invasive surgery. Got onto Testosterone replacement and I slowly started feeling normal again. Testosterone was still low, about 3/5ths what it should be, but it had improved from 1/4 of the norm (normal is about 20nmol, I was 5, and I'm around 13-14 now). Haematocrit hit a low of 40 nmol, but it's now about just under 50 - which is at the upper limit, and I have to be careful - normal range is 40-54, pro cyclists are allowed 50. I feel loads better and can actually get oxygen into my lungs.

All my other blood values were fine. 

You do need a full blood count...


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## rogerzilla (14 Nov 2018)

The last thing middle-aged British men need are iron supplements. Ironically (see what I did there), iron is added to WHITE bread by law because, back in the day, the population was felt to be iron-deficient. And who eats white bread the most? Fat middle-aged men at risk from a heart attack.


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## fossyant (14 Nov 2018)

rogerzilla said:


> The last thing middle-aged British men need are iron supplements. Ironically (see what I did there), iron is added to WHITE bread by law because, back in the day, the population was felt to be iron-deficient. And who eats white bread the most? Fat middle-aged men at risk from a heart attack.



what what, my Warburtons Toastie is no good....


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## lane (14 Nov 2018)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Forgive me and my ignorance*, but what does that mean?
> 
> *Hence the question...



I provided a link to measure your threshold HR which is a better option than measuring max HR and a link to a website with a lot of relevent info. But max HR can be tested as detailed in this link.:

https://www.cycling-inform.com/how-to-test-for-your-cycling-max-heart-rate


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Nov 2018)

Iron man is not just a film. It is based on a real story.


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## HLaB (14 Nov 2018)

fossyant said:


> Iron doesn't come out in sweat... it's a diet issue. Everyone is different, but I can still hit 185 bpm at 48 years old - I saw it at about 205 when I was early 20's chasing a club mate in a TTT training session - needless to say I didn't hang on long... I've had clubmates that were 'younger' than I am now not hit much more than 160 max, so it's only relevant to you.


It does come out but in doses like 5 parts per 1000 so nothing really to worry about. (I hope you're not eating  ) I think my downfall was a build up of blood/haemorrhoids (perhaps caused by a car impact) then a few years later the loss of them overnight. Combined with too many cups of tea/coffees with my meals stopping me absorbing iron properly to make up for it.

I remember when I was younger easily hitting 200bpm + on every ride but a club mate of mine who was 10 years younger and a far superior climber max was in the region of 176bpm


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## User76022 (14 Nov 2018)

rogerzilla said:


> The last thing middle-aged British men need are iron supplements. Ironically (see what I did there), iron is added to WHITE bread by law because, back in the day, the population was felt to be iron-deficient. And who eats white bread the most? Fat middle-aged men at risk from a heart attack.


Ironically, the added iron is, according to some scientists, completely useless to us anyway. I'm no scientist so I might have got this wrong but it goes something like this. Iron that is added is just food grade iron filings. Iron in its ferrous form. Apparently iron in this form simply goes in one end and out the other. Iron in the form we need is different (don't ask me how, I watch documentaries and read stuff but I don't always understand it). This is iron that is bound up in natural food, ie good old fashioned fruit and veg and meat. Not iron filings.


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## davidphilips (14 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> If you are eating right and there are no underlying medical conditions, it's unlikely you are iron deficient.
> 
> You don't lose much iron in sweat.
> 
> If you were iron deficient, it would probably present in other ways like general fatigue all the time, dizziness etc.



Only way i found out my iron level had fallen was when i went to give blood, my level was 13 (has to be over 13.5 for males) plus i am a vegetarian, had no issues with health and the morning before i went to donate i had just cycled about 70 miles so felt great.

Since that i have been taking an iron supplement about twice a week and have not had any issues at the donation, have no idea what my level is now but they take the red stuff so must be ok.


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## ColinJ (14 Nov 2018)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Forgive me and my ignorance*, but what does that mean?
> 
> *Hence the question...


'Maximum heart rate' is the maximum number of beats per minute that your heart can do. So do the hardest effort you can manage and simply count how many beats your heart does in a minute! 

Actually, you probably won't be able to count the beats because you will be knackered and the beats will coming so fast. Stick a heart rate monitor on and see what it says.

I should point out that you will be putting your heart under an awful lot of stress when you do that so it would be a good idea to check with your doctor to make sure that it isn't going to kill you! Do at least 15-20 minutes of moderate warm up exercise first, or more if you need it. It is a BAD idea to go flat out from a cold start.


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## User76022 (15 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> It is a BAD idea to go flat out from a cold start.



True. But it's probably even worse to stop too quickly from flat out.

When you go full on, obviously your heart is pumping as hard as it can. Everyone knows this. But less covered is the fact that the vigorous pumping action in the legs is actually pushing blood back upwards. Therefore between the heart pumping away and the legs keeping the blood going back upwards, your organs including your brain continue to be well supplied. Stop suddenly and now your legs are no longer squeezing blood back up hill. But all your arteries are still dilated just the same, and your muscles are still screaming for energy just the same. Now your poor heart, already maxed out, is working solo to keep your top half supplied. It can't. That's when you go dizzy and possibly nearly faint as your brain goes short. That's generally fairly harmless for most people (falling being the biggest risk), unless your heart is not tip top, because it will try to beat even faster to compensate for the sudden drop in blood pressure.


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## Alan O (15 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> When you go full on, obviously your heart is pumping as hard as it can. Everyone knows this. But less covered is the fact that the vigorous pumping action in the legs is actually pushing blood back upwards. Therefore between the heart pumping away and the legs keeping the blood going back upwards, your organs including your brain continue to be well supplied. Stop suddenly and now your legs are no longer squeezing blood back up hill. But all your arteries are still dilated just the same, and your muscles are still screaming for energy just the same. Now your poor heart, already maxed out, is working solo to keep your top half supplied. It can't. That's when you go dizzy and possibly nearly faint as your brain goes short. That's generally fairly harmless for most people (falling being the biggest risk), unless your heart is not tip top, because it will try to beat even faster to compensate for the sudden drop in blood pressure.


I had exactly that earlier in the year on a long ride with big hills. I was pushing up the hills as hard as I could and was doing OK, and my HR was high but within reason. But I still needed to stop every now and then as my legs were feeling it, and when I did my heart rate would rise and I'd get a dizzy spell - I only learned about the explanation sometime afterwards.


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## ColinJ (15 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> True. But it's probably even worse to stop too quickly from flat out.
> 
> When you go full on, obviously your heart is pumping as hard as it can. Everyone knows this. But less covered is the fact that the vigorous pumping action in the legs is actually pushing blood back upwards. Therefore between the heart pumping away and the legs keeping the blood going back upwards, your organs including your brain continue to be well supplied. Stop suddenly and now your legs are no longer squeezing blood back up hill. But all your arteries are still dilated just the same, and your muscles are still screaming for energy just the same. Now your poor heart, already maxed out, is working solo to keep your top half supplied. It can't. That's when you go dizzy and possibly nearly faint as your brain goes short. That's generally fairly harmless for most people (falling being the biggest risk), unless your heart is not tip top, because it will try to beat even faster to compensate for the sudden drop in blood pressure.


Ha ha - TELL ME ABOUT IT!


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## rogerzilla (1 Jan 2019)

That happened to me about ten years back. I'd had a cold that had obviously messed with my heart rate and caused me to hit MHR where I wouldn't normally. The symptoms of hitting MHR are feeling hot, sick, very out of breath and rather wobbly, so I did the worst thing possible: stopped, got off the bike, and stood still. Next thing I knew, I was lying on my back in someone's driveway with a new bruise on the back of my head. The "coming back online" sensations were weird - the street lights appeared first, then outlines of shapes, and finally everything else came into view. I rode the rest of the way to work cautiously and had an ECG and mini-medical at the GP that night but there was nothing wrong.

What happens is that the blood pools in your legs, your brain runs short, and you faint. If you get the MHR symptoms, either keep riding slowly so your legs are still moving, or get off the bike and lie down (however weird this may appear to passers-by). Fainting isn't dangerous but falling on your head, when you're unconscious so can't put your arms out to save yourself, could cause serious damage.


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## Alan O (2 Jan 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> That happened to me about ten years back. I'd had a cold that had obviously messed with my heart rate and caused me to hit MHR where I wouldn't normally. The symptoms of hitting MHR are feeling hot, sick, very out of breath and rather wobbly, so I did the worst thing possible: stopped, got off the bike, and stood still. Next thing I knew, I was lying on my back in someone's driveway with a new bruise on the back of my head. The "coming back online" sensations were weird - the street lights appeared first, then outlines of shapes, and finally everything else came into view. I rode the rest of the way to work cautiously and had an ECG and mini-medical at the GP that night but there was nothing wrong.
> 
> What happens is that the blood pools in your legs, your brain runs short, and you faint. If you get the MHR symptoms, either keep riding slowly so your legs are still moving, or get off the bike and lie down (however weird this may appear to passers-by). Fainting isn't dangerous but falling on your head, when you're unconscious so can't put your arms out to save yourself, could cause serious damage.


I've had a few more occasions recently when I've had to stop on steep hills. But rather than my previous approach of pushing until I reach my limit and then coming to a dead stop and standing still (and then suffering the dizzy spell), I've been stopping a bit earlier and then walking a bit to keep my legs moving. Result = no dizziness.


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