# Ebike Conversion



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

I've undertaken the task of converting my wife's new Genesis Columbia to an ebike. Its I think a good candidate with being steel frame, internal gear Shimano hub with disc brakes

I did a little research of battery sizes available and made a guesstimate if the battery would locate in the frame. I took the plunge and ordered the bike.


This week the battery arrived from Chinese supplier, temporarily fitted to see if it sits in the frame and can be removed from the cradle.
It will help with centre of gravity/stability having the battery central and low in the frame


When the motor kit arrives I'll update the build


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

Wholly crap, it works! The newer model, with helical cut final drive is very nice, quiet, can hardly hear the motor whilst pedalling

Need to tidy all the wiring, tighten everything down, tweak the settings and do a proper test ride.


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

I spent this morning tidying up the cables and routing them. I used various heat shrink, cable ties and insulation tape to keep the wiring as neat as possible.

I fitted extra riv-nuts to help hold weighty battery. I opted for 52v 13.5amp Shark design.


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

The finished bike.

Ive just had a 5 mile ride to try out performance and assist levels. Performed perfectly. There is no need really to change gear or assistance level. I could easily leave mid level and in top gear 8th on IGH and it would be absolutely fine. The odd hill might prove to be a problem, but I'll see in due course. My wife is pleased with the level of assist- hopefully we can get back upto 50 milers again together.

I think it will take a few rides to alter the settings to get the range, and power levels spot on. Hoping for 100miles of range with moderate assistance.


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

Parts I used were a centre direct crank drive motor. Its a TSDZ2 kit- with custom firmware. Its a 48/52volt motor with upto 750W if you choose to run high amps.


https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p113/TSDZ2.html#/

The custom firmware allows variety of settings to be altered which either increase performance or tailor the kit to personal requirements. Common items to adjust are-battery type/ voltage max limit of current/power, number of assist levels and how these levels are setup, walk/cruise feature, throttle on/off or torque. Temperature control once sensor added. There are many other options, which enhance the basic system. That's why I chose this kit

Note- you can get the standard kit for much less from many suppliers

The battery I ordered through a Chinese wholesaler DH Gate. Using this website was straightforward and the battery was delivered on-time with no issues

Battery 52volt 13.5Amp/hr. Shark shape. My battery has no on/ off switch or usb outlet. This makes it smaller by centimetre or two which I needed.


Most of these kits are 36v, but these are the older versions, the newer models are 48volt and are much better in power and gear noise.

It took about an hour to strip the original chainset off the bike and fit the kit. The extra time comes from making a tidy job of the wiring or modify frame for additional mounts- not a necessity but I wanted more secure battery mount.


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

Early days testing. Ive been out on two outings with the wife. We have done two rides each around 20 miles. She hasn't ridden a bike for nearly a year due to physical issues. Its been a revelation to her, she can cruise along at 14-16mph with a small amount of motor assist. The giggle she has being able to carry same speed whether headwind or incline. Im finding myself having to draft when riding into a headwind and I need to dig deep for hills or small inclines. 

The conversion from these two outings is a success. Its allowed my better half enjoy cycling again. Onwards for bigger outings


----------



## raleighnut (9 Jul 2019)

That looks neat.


----------



## cisamcgu (9 Jul 2019)

I think it is very subtle, _reserved _even


----------



## fossyant (9 Jul 2019)

Chinese battery


----------



## fossyant (9 Jul 2019)

Reserved for pictures of charred brown bike ! 

I'm sure it will be fine !


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2019)

fossyant said:


> Reserved for pictures of charred brown bike !
> 
> I'm sure it will be fine !



You do realise vast majority of products are manufactured in China, even apple devices. You really need to look at yourself for the prejudice you possess. 

Dont bother posting another comment, its not welcome


----------



## Ananda (10 Jul 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> You do realise vast majority of products are manufactured in China, even apple devices. You really need to look at yourself for the prejudice you possess.
> 
> Dont bother posting another comment, its not welcome



Lighten up, its called humour!

Ps.
btw everything is made in china, but at different quality control standards.


----------



## shingwell (14 Jul 2019)

Looks excellent, watching with much intetest! Did you choose the bike with conversion in mind?


----------



## CXRAndy (14 Jul 2019)

shingwell said:


> Looks excellent, watching with much intetest! Did you choose the bike with conversion in mind?



I wanted a bike which had disc brakes, but then thought an internal gear hub would be of benefit for keeping chain line simple. The Battery location was beneficial being between the down tubes offering a little bit a knock protection, when the wife steps into the bike. 

It was a ball ache to drill the extra riv-nut positions. Far longer than it took to install the motor kit and display.

I spent this morning tidying up all the cables. 

Apart from making setting adjustments to aid my wife, the project has surprisingly finished rather quickly, more quickly than I anticipated.

I'll post more photos Its such a simple conversion anyone with a little practical skill could make a tidy job.


----------



## berty bassett (14 Jul 2019)

how does it work ? - i can see the battery , but what part does the battery power ? 
passed two battery powered bikes today and had some friendly banter going up the hill 
anything that helps people get out gets my vote and hope you 2 have many a happy mile along the riverbank


----------



## CXRAndy (14 Jul 2019)

berty bassett said:


> how does it work ? - i can see the battery , but what part does the battery power ?
> passed two battery powered bikes today and had some friendly banter going up the hill
> anything that helps people get out gets my vote and hope you 2 have many a happy mile along the riverbank




See my post in Zwift thread Lee


----------



## fossyant (16 Jul 2019)

Apologies. It was a joke. You've done a very neat conversion there.


----------



## CXRAndy (17 Jul 2019)

fossyant said:


> Apologies. It was a joke. You've done a very neat conversion there.


 
Accepted


----------



## jowwy (17 Jul 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> See my post in Zwift thread Lee


What zwift post???


----------



## CXRAndy (17 Jul 2019)

jowwy said:


> What zwift post???



I posted in Zwift users thread for my mate who asked a basic question.


----------



## CXRAndy (17 Jul 2019)

Ive got a few more additions like dynamo hub and lights. I could use ebike lights, but I prefer to have constant lights without nibbling the ebike battery 

I will also fit a Topeak rack with saddle bag .

If weather is good we plan to do a 40 miler. I will fully charge the battery to test range. Im hoping to see more than 50% battery left after journey


----------



## CXRAndy (20 Jul 2019)

Another pub run trial


----------



## keithmac (21 Jul 2019)

Looks a nice neat job!.

I have a TSDZ2 36v in my Carrera, used a Nuvinci 360 rear hub and 15ah battery.

Seen the development of the custom firmware and it looks interesting, don't think they support my 36v system though?.

The Torque Sensing Drive is excellent, just like riding a "mormal" bike.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jul 2019)

keithmac said:


> Looks a nice neat job!.
> 
> I have a TSDZ2 36v in my Carrera, used a Nuvinci 360 rear hub and 15ah battery.
> 
> ...



Thanks, your bike looks great. We are still only into a few rides, tweaking the settings to my wife's requirements. Its been, even after a few rides a great benefit to her, she enjoys being able to go a bit faster and much further to match my current ability.

I understand that the software you can get is for both 36 and 48v motors. It allows higher voltage batteries on 36v motors

This link has alot of information
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

Also there are YouTube videos of folk who have installed modified their setups
This chap has modified his 36V system and also done a few repairs/improvement to his motor

View: https://youtu.be/nj8GxKHut3o


----------



## keithmac (21 Jul 2019)

Cheers Andy, I'll have a read up on that.

Are you a member of Endless Sphere forums?, thats where the hybrid firmware started a few years back iirc.

Worth a look to see how it all started.

Great that your wife can get out on longer rides now!, job well done.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jul 2019)

keithmac said:


> Cheers Andy, I'll have a read up on that.
> 
> Are you a member of Endless Sphere forums?, thats where the hybrid firmware started a few years back iirc.
> 
> ...



No I'm not, Ill have look. Always useful to have a resource of information


----------



## CXRAndy (22 Jul 2019)

We have had 4 outings now on single charge, so far total nearly 70 miles. The good lady uses various levels, the motor produces around 80-120W assist to make it easy for her to ride around 14-16 mph. There is still over 50 volts on the battery around 25% on the battery status. I expect she could push the range over 100 miles. We will test on a few more local outings. 

It bodes well because she wants to do 40-50 mile outings so the battery and power usage is promising


----------



## shingwell (4 Aug 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> It was a ball ache to drill the extra riv-nut positions. Far longer than it took to install the motor kit and display.


@CXRAndy any tips for doing this to avoid the ball ache? Am considering doing the same on a Brompton and for the same reason (to secure a battery.)


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Aug 2019)

shingwell said:


> @CXRAndy any tips for doing this to avoid the ball ache? Am considering doing the same on a Brompton and for the same reason (to secure a battery.)



The problem on my wife's bike was it has a double down-tubes spaced, very inconveniently at a distance where the size of the drill bit isn't long enough to reach the lower tube. I got there in the end cutting down drills and using a 90 degree chuck adaptor.

The Brompton have a single large tube with no obstruction I can see, is that where you are going to mount the battery? 

Its straight forward to fit the riv-nuts with the correct tool. #tool plus selection of riv-nuts start around £35

Measure 3 times and mark using masking tape-use lots to protect frame. Also use a centre punch on mark to stop drill moving off centre. Start with a 2.5mm drill to get a pilot hole, for larger bit, go steady with pressing drill into tube-let the drill bit do the work.


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Aug 2019)

Bike is up-to 84 miles on single charge. Its been stood for over a week and battery voltage didn't drop at all, so negligible current bleed. Last nights outing battery voltage once home was 49.3 Volts. System is programmed to cut off at 42 Volts. 

I'm now thinking well in excess of 100 miles is possible maybe even 130 mile range


----------



## shingwell (5 Aug 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> The Brompton have a single large tube with no obstruction I can see, is that where you are going to mount the battery?



Thanks, I see your problem now! Yes pics of my converted Brompton at https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/variation-on-a-nano-conversion.251868/

Cable ties ok for the mo but I'd like to be able to leave the bike and come back and find the battery still there!


----------



## CXRAndy (11 Aug 2019)

My 80/90/100% charger came. 

Ive converted connections to match battery and UK mains. The keen eyed will of noticed the charger is not the correct voltage version for my 52v battery. Full charge being 58.8V.

This charger has 3 levels from 52V to 54.6V. It suits me fine, for best battery life it is recommended to charge around 80-90% and periodically charge upto 100% to allow internal BMS level the cells.

It has a little internal cooling fan and a single LED to indicate full charge, red to green


----------



## CXRAndy (11 Aug 2019)

Pannier rack swapped for Topeak touring and slide on fold pannier bags


----------



## CXRAndy (18 Aug 2019)

Front wheel sent off for dynamo hub rebuild. 

I'm taking the Busch&Mueller lights from her other bike to fit. 

In the meantime I've ordered the tools to dismantle the Nexus Inter 8 IGH hub. From new its been a little temperamental in shifting gears even before fitting Ebike kit. So, I will strip down, clean original grease away and re grease with semi fluid grease and water proof grease in both spindle bearings- hopefully that helps with shifting.


----------



## CXRAndy (27 Aug 2019)

I can see the finish line now

I have been adding extras for the wife's bike to make it usable pretty much at anytime

So I added Topeak touring rack and pannier bag. Had the front wheel rebuilt with a Shimano silver dynamo hub. Removed the Busch& Mueller lights from her other bike.

Wife has now requested wide tyres for the odd gravel path outing.-later job

I did the IGH strip down and lubrication because of hesitant shifting. There was little grease in the hub from new,(200miles) the shifting became nice and smooth after the service

Here is her 100+ mile shopper (soon gravel ready) ebike


----------



## CXRAndy (27 Aug 2019)

First wet weather ride after lightning storm

Wife won the race for home


----------



## CXRAndy (29 Aug 2019)

Tyres arrived, so fitted and bike given test ride. I went with inner tubes and sealant to reduce chances of punctures that involve wheel removal. Just slightly more awkward to remove a hub drive wheel on the road.

All finished now


----------



## confusedcyclist (30 Aug 2019)

That's a really tidy conversion. It's making me hungry to get on with a similar project. How does the torque sensor perform. Have you compared it with the likes of the Bosche Active Line+?

Why did you opt for custom firmware exactly? Sorry if you already explained, I didn't see that in your write up.

Edit: Actually whilst reading up on the motor model, I came across the reason! Should have been obvious, but I was having a moment! 

The thing that worries me with conversions that break the watt and speed limits is the possibility of getting into non-fault accident with another party and then being screwed by the police after an investigation into circumstances, and then again with insurance companies after settlement for contributory negligence. I wish the regulations would be relaxed a bit more.


----------



## CXRAndy (30 Aug 2019)

The torque sensor really makes the bike feel natural in riding style, smoothly kicking in and fade out.

Ive not compared it to a Bosch or alike- some have and say its just as good

I chose a custom firmware because the developer has improved the functionality, smoothness, and improved battery life. Yes I can if I wished to go crazy, but its a bike for my wife who just wants easy to use bike with a decent range without panicking it might run out, so its very moderate in power and max current supply. She rides between 14-16 mph, able to go shopping, carry loads or go off road on trails without over stressing her hip problems


----------



## confusedcyclist (30 Aug 2019)

I'd love one just to get my average pace up and reduce my commute time here in hilly bradford. I may have to think about it a bit more seriously as I'm moving soon and will have 30 mile round trip, and need to get home for my baby girl! I love the pairing with the IGH too. It would work a treat with my surly straggler.

If you don't mind, how much did you spend on the motor, battery and controller, and from whom did you buy them?


----------



## CXRAndy (30 Aug 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> If you don't mind, how much did you spend on the motor, battery and controller,



The battery was about £280. The kit was £500ish. There are cheaper supplies for the kit from DHGate, but these are standard setups. You would need to get the software and interface to add custom software. So I bought mine motor from Electrifymybike in the USA already preprogrammed. its the TSDZ2 kit. I understand there is a newer/ display control available now


----------



## Mike_P (31 Aug 2019)

For simple commuting purposes the stock firmware on a TSDZ2 is fine IMO.


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2019)

Ive being trying to find the cutoff point of the battery, well I did today- well the wife did .

We have had some strong winds around recently, so power assist has been higher to maintain speed 

Our little outing was curtailed, a benefit really, her indoors would not of been impressed if system had shut down 9 miles from home.

The battery started at 48V ish but I noticed that voltage was dropping quickly when more power was demanded fighting a headwind. I thought it would drop off more steadily, but soon as we hit a small hill in length @8% the battery just gave up and the system shut down. A slow ride home revealed no problems other than flat battery

So now have a good indication where the battery voltage has to be for a ride out.


----------



## confusedcyclist (5 Sep 2019)

Are you planning year round riding? It will also be interesting to see how it operates in the comming colder winter weather. I hear that range can be quite drastically cut as the cold impedes the battery chemistry. A battery used at a low temperature produces less current than at a higher temperature. As cold batteries run down they quickly reach the point where they cannot deliver enough current to keep up with the demand. If the battery is warmed up again it will operate normally. So weather can be mitigated to an extent if you can dismount the battery (if it's stored in unheated space) and take it indoors. It won't suffer as badly as it would with a cold start, but it will eventually cool enough out in the open that the chemistry is hindered again.


----------



## raleighnut (5 Sep 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Are you planning year round riding? It will also be interesting to see how it operates in the comming colder winter weather. I hear that range can be quite drastically cut as the cold impedes the battery chemistry. A battery used at a low temperature produces less current than at a higher temperature. As cold batteries run down they quickly reach the point where they cannot deliver enough current to keep up with the demand. If the battery is warmed up again it will operate normally. So weather can be mitigated to an extent if you can dismount the battery (if it's stored in unheated space) and take it indoors. It won't suffer as badly as it would with a cold start, but it will eventually cool enough out in the open that the chemistry is hindered again.



Yep cold weather can cut the range in half, the problem is the voltage drops so the safety device cuts in. Starting a ride with a warm battery helps and I'd take it to full charge before leaving home.


----------



## confusedcyclist (5 Sep 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Yep cold weather can cut the range in half, the problem is the voltage drops so the safety device cuts in. Starting a ride with a warm battery helps and I'd take it to full charge before leaving home.


A combination of high winds and extreme cold is the another big reason I'm concerned about being reliant on a battery, but hey, you wouldn't get cold huffing a flat e-bike around providing you can keep it rolling.


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> Are you planning year round riding?



Im hoping to have some dry days through winter. I know weather has a big impact upon batteries, we have EVs, one doesn't have a sophisticated battery management, so suffers from reduced range in winter.

That's another reason why I went for a higher voltage and current to offset cold weather range loss


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2019)

confusedcyclist said:


> So weather can be mitigated to an extent if you can dismount the battery (if it's stored in unheated space) and take it indoors



Battery will unlock from mount and can be charged indoors-


----------



## Mike_P (5 Sep 2019)

Re the cost of conversion there are incidentals possibly needed aside from the motor and battery. In particular does the rear derailleur cable need rerouting to clear the motor - the solution I used was to bolt in place using rivnuts new cable guides - I used Radley single guides obtained from Chain Reaction and a rivnut tool supplied with sufficient rivnuts from an ebay seller, plus extra cable outer, ferrules etc (the LifeLine Essential Gear Cable Set from Chain Reaction sufficed).

With a TSDZ2 their is the option for a front derailleur as well, I used 38 and 48 chainwheels from Spa Cycles and a new metal chain guard sourced from a Taiwanese bike shop on ebay. The offset of the chainwheels could be an issue for the derailleur but I found with a 28.6mm seat tube I could use a Origin 8 Derailleur Direct Mount Adaptor (from SJS cycles) with a Shimano 34.9mm to 28.6mm front mech adaptor cut to fit double thickness on the far side of the seat tube to correctly position a Shimano SLX M676 front derailleur. Ideally the cable would have been routed along the top tube and down the seat post but I was wary of weakening the top tube as it gets quite thin towards the seat post on the hybrid I was converting (a Ridgeback Motion) so instead routed in down the down tube and used a old type clip over the downtube cable guide, sourced off ebay, cut down for the part of it that was needed, bolted in place with a rivnut and the far end cable tied down in order to turn the cable up the seat tube to the derailleur.

I also fitted Light And Motion Nip-n-tuck ebike lights as the bike typically will be doing short runs with plenty of opportunities to charge up.


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2019)

That's why I chose the Shimano IGH to keep the chain line simple. Ive seen quite a few derailleur setups. Most like I do run the cables above the bottom bracket.


----------



## CXRAndy (4 Aug 2020)

My wife and I had a loop around Rutland water this weekend just gone.

I had swapped her tyres this winter to
G Ones 40 mm in the hope she might want to do a little trail riding.

She has never completed more than 6 miles of the loop before We completed the whole loop 23 miles and on the significant hills she absolutely thrashed me in climbing speed and ease of climb.

The bike behaved perfectly, easily wafted her up 10% gradients on full power with a nexus 8 hub gear and 42t chainring. 

I charged the battery to 85% and she had around 40% left.

We thoroughly enjoyed the day albeit a little tired and dusty. We picnic'd half way round on the peninsula. 

She was carrying tools, blanket, food, drinks and a folding chair- after all, she does have a motor

Anyone thinking minor off roading was beyond them, build an ebike.


----------



## Pale Rider (5 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Anyone thinking minor off roading was beyond them, build an ebike



Always nice to hear when people have a good day out on their bikes.

However, it is worth pointing out an ebike is more of a challenge than a push bike for those of us who lack confidence on anything rougher than cinder track.

It can only be the weight that makes them harder to balance.

Ebikes are also more difficult to manhandle - or woman handle - through any obstacles than cannot be cycled, such as restrictions on cycle paths.

Another concern is train assisted touring.

Humping an ebike on to a train or over a few steps at a station is nearly a two man job.

Ebikes are also not suitable for the front wheel bike hooks - the type where the bike is stowed vertically - which seem to me to be increasingly popular on long distance services.

We once humped my Rose ebike on to one of those hooks.

The headset was never the same, although I suppose I could have replaced it for a few pounds.


----------



## ColinJ (5 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Ebikes are also more difficult to manhandle - or woman handle - through any obstacles than cannot be cycled, such as restrictions on cycle paths


You can say that again - I well remember helping you get your ebike over this footbridge on one of my Cheshire forum rides. _Very _hard work...







It is all very well for @I like Skol to bunnyhop onto it, ride across, and jump down the far side, but for mere mortals it is not so easy!



Pale Rider said:


> Another concern is train assisted touring.
> 
> Humping an ebike on to a train or over a few steps at a station is nearly a two man job.


I may be doing a bike conversion for a female friend and that is of concern, but I reckon I can keep the weight down to around 19 kg so the bike should be manageable. She won't want to do any offroad more serious than towpaths or gravel tracks.


----------



## Pale Rider (6 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> You can say that again - I well remember helping you get your ebike over this footbridge on one of my Cheshire forum rides. _Very _hard work...
> 
> View attachment 539931
> 
> ...



Part of the problem with my bike and the bridge was at the time it had the full width MTB handlebars it came with.

They've since been chopped, but it would still be a chew, particularly solo.

One of the many good things about forum rides is there's always plenty of bike savvy willing pairs of hands to help.

An example is the Brighton ride which usually ends at a chip shop on the pebbles, accessed by two flights of stairs.

@StuAff was the first of several riders to offer help, but they weren't needed because Adrian deployed his local knowledge to direct me to a cycleable ramp nearby.

As regards your ebike plans, I agree 19kg is a doable target.

That's a good few kgs lighter than my bike with its twin batteries, and ought to be much more manageable.

Are you sorted for component suppliers?

There's still some cheap and nasty stuff around, so you need to know what you are buying.


----------



## CXRAndy (6 Aug 2020)

I'm just about to buy another TSD kit with open software from

Eco-Ebike

They have newer display (850C) with a lot more features and option to have power limiting temperature sensor pre installed

$500 dollars + battery=


----------



## sheddy (6 Aug 2020)

Andy - can you photo or link to your folding chair (intrigued).


----------



## fromjusttheking (7 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> I'm just about to buy another TSD kit with open software from
> 
> Eco-Ebike
> 
> ...



Hello Andy, My name is Alan. I'm new to CycelChat, and "E" powered trikes. I'm in the process of installing the first of 2 TSDZ2 "new" version of the systems, both with new 860C (not the 850C), throttle, speed sensor and cable pull-thru E brake cutoffs. The systems are programmed with the latest (I think) OSF version. I also got them from Eco-Ebike (Eco-Cycles) as well. I'm in the states in West Virginia (on the east coast), about 10 hours or so driving from Nashville, Tennessee (near the east coast), where they are located. Still too far to go there to pick it up. They are very customer service oriented. Hope to be finished with this first install this weekend. How do you like yours? Are you using the blue or metal drive gear? I'm starting out with the blue. My wife and I have a pair of Catrike Trail's, are very senior citizens (80 & 75) and love them. This seems like a great website.


----------



## ColinJ (7 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> As regards your ebike plans, I agree 19kg is a doable target.
> 
> That's a good few kgs lighter than my bike with its twin batteries, and ought to be much more manageable.
> 
> ...


I signed up on Pedelecs and have been asking ebike questions over there.

I quite like the look of the Whoosh Aikema hub kit for my friend's bike. If I were doing a conversion for myself I would go for something like the Bafang BBS01B crank drive kit because I prefer a high cadence and am happy changing gear to suit. My friend always seems to choose too high a gear and then struggles. I think the extra oomph from the hub motor should get her up most of the hills she currently walks up.


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2020)

fromjusttheking said:


> Hello Andy, My name is Alan. I'm new to CycelChat, and "E" powered trikes. I'm in the process of installing the first of 2 TSDZ2 "new" version of the systems, both with new 860C (not the 850C), throttle, speed sensor and cable pull-thru E brake cutoffs. The systems are programmed with the latest (I think) OSF version. I also got them from Eco-Ebike (Eco-Cycles) as well. I'm in the states in West Virginia (on the east coast), about 10 hours or so driving from Nashville, Tennessee (near the east coast), where they are located. Still too far to go there to pick it up. They are very customer service oriented. Hope to be finished with this first install this weekend. How do you like yours? Are you using the blue or metal drive gear? I'm starting out with the blue. My wife and I have a pair of Catrike Trail's, are very senior citizens (80 & 75) and love them. This seems like a great website.



Hi Alan

My first kit was for my wife's shopper/mild gravel bike in the first post. I bought this motor kit from another USA supplier Electrifybike(from memory). I had to get my battery from a Chinese wholesaler due to HAZMAT regulations sending batteries from the USA. 

I had never ridden an Ebike before, but was extremely pleased with the ease of install and performance from such a little motor. I set my wife's bike up with very modest assist power levels- more for range than outright speed. I did test it for more performance once and it would happily drag my weight over 20mph if I had left it with higher settings. 

I presume you will set yours for around 20mph assist speed?

I left the blue gear in and gave instructions for my wife not to try and accelerate from slow or stop situations in a higher gear and power setting. So far the gear has been fine. The newer TSDZ2 have a main helical cut gear for less noise and on ours its very quiet indeed. 

I ordered the brake cut offs too, but didn't fit them, because the 'open software' does such a good job of controlling the motor, they became redundant. 

I hope you like the newer display, I've read a lot on the 'Endless Sphere' website about the development of the software and issues which came up and what the community did to overcome them. 


Your location reminds me of time our family had a little tour of USA for my fiftieth. We had landed in Nashville after spending a few weeks on the west coast LA/SF and Las Vegas. We wanted to drive up the Blue Ridge mountains route to a place called Roanoke before going onto Washington. Unfortunately the organiser of our trip booked a different Roanoke, there are two, one in Virginia and another in West Virginia. By time we noticed that the route was more freeway than lovely winding road, it was too late to divert. Oh well another trip will be needed. Great times and beautiful part of the states where you live. I will return when all this Covid finishes. 

Let me know how you get on regards

Andy


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2020)

sheddy said:


> Andy - can you photo or link to your folding chair (intrigued).



Here it is, its Burton camping chair Big Agnes 

Burton folding chair

about 14" in length, fits nicely into panniers


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I signed up on Pedelecs and have been asking ebike questions over there.
> 
> I quite like the look of the Whoosh Aikema hub kit for my friend's bike. If I were doing a conversion for myself I would go for something like the Bafang BBS01B crank drive kit because I prefer a high cadence and am happy changing gear to suit. My friend always seems to choose too high a gear and then struggles. I think the extra oomph from the hub motor should get her up most of the hills she currently walks up.


Maybe being thick, but am confused - specs for second seem to say max rpm of 78.

That strikes me as quite low.

Had never even considered the RPM as a factor before I saw your post though - clearly a field best entered with care - luckily I think I have a few years before I make my entry into the world of electric assist.


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I signed up on Pedelecs and have been asking ebike questions over there.
> 
> I quite like the look of the Whoosh Aikema hub kit for my friend's bike. If I were doing a conversion for myself I would go for something like the Bafang BBS01B crank drive kit because I prefer a high cadence and am happy changing gear to suit. My friend always seems to choose too high a gear and then struggles. I think the extra oomph from the hub motor should get her up most of the hills she currently walks up.




The latest version of open software for the TSdZ2 allows for upto 130rpm without too much tail -off in power delivery. Endless sphere is the website for all things electric bikes, vehicles solar etc.

I challenge anyone to maintain that kind of rpm. On my normal road bike for training I will spin at 100rpm and sprint upto 170rpm, but dont reach those numbers on the road, more 80-95rpm


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2020)

Here is a link to files for those who like to do their own installation of firmware on the TSDZ2 https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike


----------



## ColinJ (7 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Maybe being thick, but am confused - specs for second seem to say max rpm of 78.
> 
> That strikes me as quite low.
> 
> Had never even considered the RPM as a factor before I saw your post though - clearly a field best entered with care - luckily I think I have a few years before I make my entry into the world of electric assist.


Oh, well spotted... I normally prefer more like 85-95 rpm. Still, like you, I don't need a motor... _yet!_


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2020)

My 2nd kit will be for my first MTB bike, when I just want to ride around uphills and a bit further a little faster with less effort- sort of recovery type riding.


----------



## ColinJ (7 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Maybe being thick, but am confused - specs for second seem to say max rpm of 78.


I found a thread on _Pedelecs _discussing that. Somebody actually rebuilt his motor to work around it. There is no way that I would buy a new kit and then immediately gut it because it didn't do what I wanted it to do - I would buy something else in the first place! Still, it confirmed that the rpm limit _would_ be a real problem for me. By the time I might need a motor (aged 70+?) then technology will have moved on so I'd see what is available then.


----------



## plustwos (7 Aug 2020)

Well, you are a Guru, but have you drilled two holes through the down tube to bolt on a plastic battery mount? Was that wise? I have been thinking of changing my wife's thirty years or so Dawes so that she can keep up with me on my new E-bike but was thinking in terms of mounting the battery on her rear pannier frame.
Ken


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Aug 2020)

Agree.
Assuming neither of us gets hit by a bus I think we are timing our electric entry pretty well. Tech will get better, more choice, more competion. And I may well go the convert route. 
Do folk have ideas on what sort of frames are best for conversion platforms? I have in mind some good solid steel hybrid or rigid MTB.


----------



## ColinJ (7 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Do folk have ideas on what sort of frames are best for conversion platforms? I have in mind some good solid steel hybrid or rigid MTB.


The bike that I plan to convert is my old Orange Prestige rigid (steel) MTB. It was always a bit small for me so I donated it to my friend who is pretty tall for a woman; it just about fits her. With riser bars to replace the current flat ones I think it would be a perfect fit.

It looks like the converted weight should be sub-20 kg which isn't bad for what would be a cheapish ebike.


----------



## Ananda (8 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Agree.
> Assuming neither of us gets hit by a bus I think we are timing our electric entry pretty well. Tech will get better, more choice, more competion. And I may well go the convert route.
> Do folk have ideas on what sort of frames are best for conversion platforms? I have in mind some good solid steel hybrid or rigid MTB.



A steel frame with the longest chainstays you can find! 
Steel carries gracefully the extra load and the long chainstays make for a better functioning chainline. Unless you use an IGH of course.
Unfortunately modern mtb frames are designed with short chainstays.


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Aug 2020)

Ananda said:


> A steel frame with the longest chainstays you can find!
> Steel carries gracefully the extra load and the long chainstays make for a better functioning chainline. Unless you use an IGH of course.
> Unfortunately modern mtb frames are designed with short chainstays.


Sounds like a fair few from my current bunch will be ideal.
Which will save me from an old age having to ride some desperate clunker or something trying to look ultra cool and modern with "innovative" tube and frame flourishes.


----------



## CXRAndy (8 Aug 2020)

plustwos said:


> Well, you are a Guru, but have you drilled two holes through the down tube to bolt on a plastic battery mount? Was that wise? I have been thinking of changing my wife's thirty years or so Dawes so that she can keep up with me on my new E-bike but was thinking in terms of mounting the battery on her rear pannier frame.
> Ken



There is a metal spine to the battery mount, encased with plastic. The plastic is for the mount key-ways for the battery to slip onto. The lock pin enters the metal spine, preventing easy theft attempts. 

With regards to drilling holes. I don't see it as problem. Firstly its steel material, holes by there very nature aren't stress points. Metal fabricators use radius cuts or drill holes in corners of metal work to relieve stress fractures. When repairing metal that has cracked you're supposed to drill a hole at the end to help stop the crack extending beyond. By having four hole actually reduces loading on all points by sharing the battery weights lateral movement. 

The only obvious disadvantage to mounting the battery on the pannier rack is, centre of gravity is increased in height, potentially giving a weird sensation of the bike pulling left or right in critical balance moments. These batteries weigh 3-5kg.

I experience this with panniers when I load them up with shopping. the added weight is like a pendulum moving you around and if not careful could topple you off if a little inexperienced. 

If you do get your wife an ebike or convert one, you will find she will possibly out ride you into headwinds especially with a slight gradient. Steeper hills, she will destroy you. She will looked refreshed at the top of a climb as you arrive gasping, sweat dripping off your brow.

My wife having spent years not enjoying riding, because she always thought she was slowing me down. Bit now, we have giggle at the fact I put her on the front to pace me into wind. I can then sit in her draft and hang on


----------



## CXRAndy (8 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Do folk have ideas on what sort of frames are best for conversion platforms? I have in mind some good solid steel hybrid or rigid MTB.



Steel or aluminium, but steel first.. Its the brackets that prevent rotation of the motor are tightened against the frame. Softer materials are prone to damage. I use 3mm rubber sheet between the bracket and frame to help protect the frame against rubbing. 

To be honest it really doesn't matter about bike weight, a heavy old frame is usually ideal. The added motor and battery are nothing compared to the 250W constant power available. Do remember all these e-bike motors from Bosch thru to TSDZ2 can and do produce a lot more power in short bursts. 250W is rating for continuous output.


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Aug 2020)

Sounds like it's a conversion for me then, and i rather like fettling and going my own way. No need to impress anyone.
Any disadvantages to a conversion compared to a dedicated ebike?


----------



## CXRAndy (8 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Sounds like it's a conversion for me then, and i rather like fettling and going my own way. No need to impress anyone.
> Any disadvantages to a conversion compared to a dedicated ebike?



The only comments I tend to see are they kits aren't built to the same quality as the Bosch, Yamaha, Brose etc. Like you I like tinkering and making things work they way I want them. There are two obvious ways either wheel hub motor or crank based motor. Both have advantages over each other. The crank motors are usually quite small, extremely torque strong when coupled with gearing. 

The two common crank motors are Bafang and Tongscheng (TSDZ2) Spares are plentiful and usually very cheap- not tied to sending it back to dealer for minor repairs/service.

Bafang have good reputation for building reliable strong motors with some being extremely powerful 1000W  Bafang is what I call the traditional pedal assist- you turn the pedals, power will be delivered at whatever level you have it set on. As long as the pedals are turning, even with little effort you will get assistance. You will see folk just slowly rotating whilst travelling quite quickly, that's pedal assist.

TSDZ2 is a torque assist motor, It reads the level of effort the rider is putting in and then multiplies that effort depending on what level of assist you choose. 

Example a rider is producing 100 watts of pedalling power, the motor is set on level 1 with 75% assist equates to 75 Watts, so total pedalling force is 175W. Now said rider still pedals at 100W but this time has max setting of 300%, a total of 300w+100W=400W pedalling force, that is a lot. 

The rider still has to put in a 100W, but if they drop down to 50W, max assist will be reduced to 150W total of 200W. The rider still needs to pedal to get the best out of themselves and the bike. My wife wanted to have a workout from riding not a freewheel effort the pedal assist versions offer.

I chose the TSDZ2 with open firmware because the developer (Cassinho) has beautifully tweaked the motor response to make it super smooth in the way it accelerates from zero and added many features to help tweak the way you want the bike to perform. It rides just like a normal bike except with a whirr. The pickup from a standstill is nice and smooth but with a little bit of pep to it. Its not jerky. The power when riding cuts in and out smoothly. 

I hope that helps. Im by no means an expert, this being my own experience of this kit. But boy


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I signed up on Pedelecs and have been asking ebike questions over there.
> 
> I quite like the look of the Whoosh Aikema hub kit for my friend's bike. If I were doing a conversion for myself I would go for something like the Bafang BBS01B crank drive kit because I prefer a high cadence and am happy changing gear to suit. My friend always seems to choose too high a gear and then struggles. I think the extra oomph from the hub motor should get her up most of the hills she currently walks up.



The Aikema motor is whisper quiet, but not known for its power.

I reckon the Bafang crank drive would feel more powerful.

Bafang make a nicely grunty hub motor called a BPM, which became known as 'big powerful motor', because it is, having a diameter several centimetres more than the Aikema.

In general, Bafang also appear to be slightly more reliable than Aikema.

Set against that, hub motors tend to me more reliable than crank drives if for no other reason than there's less to go wrong.

The rating of the controller also plays a big part in the amount of power the rider feels, so it quickly all gets rather complicated.

I see you've found Woosh, who are as good a supplier as any.

In your position, I would ring them, speak to Andy, and be guided by him as to a suitable controller/motor combination for your requirements.


----------



## ColinJ (8 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> The Aikema motor is whisper quiet, but not known for its power.


I think that I discussed that on Pedelecs. The general opinion was that it should be ok for a 63 kg woman on a 19 kg bike. And she is VERY concerned about motor noise. (We watched one ebike video and my reaction was that the ebike seemed to be giving the rider plenty of help; hers was that it sounded awful! I hadn't noticed until she mentioned it, but then I realised that she was right.)



Pale Rider said:


> I reckon the Bafang crank drive would feel more powerful.


Crank drive would be my choice too, but she has an eccentric approach to gears and cadence. She seems to drift towards 40-50 rpm and refuses to go above about 60 rpm. I'm not sure that would be good with a crank drive motor?


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I think that I discussed that on Pedelecs. The general opinion was that it should be ok for a 63 kg woman on a 19 kg bike. And she is VERY concerned about motor noise. (We watched one ebike video and my reaction was that the ebike seemed to be giving the rider plenty of help; hers was that it sounded awful! I hadn't noticed until she mentioned it, but then I realised that she was right.)
> 
> 
> Crank drive would be my choice too, but she has an eccentric approach to gears and cadence. She seems to drift towards 40-50 rpm and refuses to go above about 60 rpm. I'm not sure that would be good with a crank drive motor?



Crank motors - as with geared hub motors such as the Aikema - are geared to provide torque at a relatively low cadence.

However, crank drives do work best if you are in something close to the 'right' gear, particularly if they have a torque sensor.

I agree the Aikema would work well in this application - only 63kg of rider will make a big difference.

Given the concerns about motor noise, I think the Aikema is the one to go for.

I believe you can get controllers that mimic a torque sensor.

I've not tried one, but I'm told they work fairly well.

Such a controller would deploy the power in a more natural cycling way.

A good benefit for someone who is already a cyclist.


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Aug 2020)

Another couple of thoughts.

Every drop of power you can extract from the battery is precious.

A hub installation means there is a relatively long cable run from the battery to the motor.

You don't want to waste power warming a high resistance cable, so I would make sure the cable is sufficiently beefy and of sufficient quality to do the job.

The supplied cable may be fine, but it might be capable of improvement - I believe you have the electrical knowledge to make that judgment.

You will also know to make that run as short as you can.

Good electrical interconnects elsewhere are critical for a reliable installation.

I reckon most ebike conversion breakdowns/reliability problems are down to poor wiring rather than component failure.

Thinking about it, your combination of cycle maintenance and electrical skills is almost ideal for an ebike conversion.

When you post pics of the finished bike I'm expecting a high quality job.

Next sub-topic, which cells to have in the battery for best performance?


----------



## ColinJ (8 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> A hub installation means there is a relatively long cable run from the battery to the motor.
> 
> You don't want to waste power warming a high resistance cable, so I would make sure the cable is sufficiently beefy and of sufficient quality to do the job.
> 
> The supplied cable may be fine, but it might be capable of improvement - I believe you have the electrical knowledge to make that judgment.


Hmm, I was working on the assumption that nobody would supply a wimpy power cable! Now you have me wondering whether people cut corners on important things like that... 



Pale Rider said:


> Good electrical interconnects elsewhere are critical for a reliable installation.


Yes, I definitely don't want connectors coming apart, getting water in, or burning out.

I had a convection heater fail in the Spring due to a dodgy connector. I don't want something like this to happen on the converted bike...









Pale Rider said:


> Next sub-topic, which cells to have in the battery for best performance?


Aargh... Again, I was hoping that buying from a reputable UK supplier would cover that kind of thing! I explained to the bike owner that I didn't want to be involved with buying kits direct from China to save money because I wouldn't be sure of what we would be getting, and any problems could be a nightmare to deal with.

A question for you, knowing what you know about ebikes and what the terrain round here is like... The 63 kg rider, the 19 kg bike, that hub motor, and a 500 Ah battery. Rider supplying 90% of power on the flat doing 15-20 km/hr, but supplying 50% of power and doing (say) 8 km/hr on any hills, freewheeling and/or just pedalling downhill. Let's say an average of 15 m of climbing per km. What kind of range could reasonably be expected? (I'd be hoping for a minimum of 50 km, and ideally significantly more than that.)


----------



## CXRAndy (8 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Rider supplying 90% of power on the flat doing 15-20 km/hr, but supplying 50% of power and doing (say) 8 km/hr on any hills



Your wife will be doing 15 mph on the flats, I can almost guarantee it. Hills, she will not be that slow, more like 6-8 mph even upto 10%


Connecting the battery use quality connection XT60 type. Joining wire solder and heat shrink. Dielectric grease on vulnerable points will help significantly for long problem free setup
Buy from USA


----------



## ColinJ (8 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Your wife will be doing 15 mph on the flats, I can almost guarantee it. Hills, she will not be that slow, more like 6-8 mph even upto 10%


A friend rather than my wife/girlfriend! 

She probably WILL do that speed on the flat on the rides that I do with her because I won't want to hang around all day, and she can wait for me at the tops of the climbs! 

I was being conservative with the speeds because I was wondering how far it likely that she will be able to ride and still have motor assistance.

I will try to avoid the nightmare scenario of us being on the wrong side of a huge hill when the battery runs out. It wouldn't be a problem to have even 5-10 miles of flat roads at the end of a lumpy road so I will plot our routes to have the hills concentrated earlier on rather than a flat start leading to a hilly finish.

She said that she could always walk the last hill, but I can think of hills round here that it would take 1.5 - 2 hours to walk a heavy bike up!


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Aug 2020)

Calculating range is notoriously difficult, but hills really suck the battery.

Unavoidable on your patch, unless you do what I saw a few carbon roadies doing and hammer up and down the valley bottom - how dull is that?

I reckon your expectation of 50km ought to be easily met, more like 60-70km, but not a lot more unless she can manage on a very low assistance level throughout.

As ever, fit the biggest battery you are happy with - you can never have too much capacity.

The Aikema motor is what you want, so I can't see the point of shopping Stateside to get one.

Sound electrical advice from Andy above (not that I fully understand all of it).

Woosh are regarded as a reliable UK supplier.

Assuming they have Aikemas on the shelf ready to go, and they can supply a quality cell battery, I reckon you are all set.

Oh, Just a moment, have you sorted a controller?

As I mentioned earlier, type of controller can have a big impact on performance and user experience.


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Aug 2020)

hell this is all rather more complicated than I had hoped.

Am hoping for a small selection of idiot versions before I need one.

Or hoping palerider is still around to talk me all through it.


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Aug 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> hell this is all rather more complicated than I had hoped.
> 
> Am hoping for a small selection of idiot versions before I need one.
> 
> Or hoping palerider is still around to talk me all through it.



Ha-ha.

I suppose there are plenty of idiot versions in the shape of ready made bikes.

You cannot go far wrong with a Bosch powered bike.

They still set the standard for smoothness, and an accurate rendition of push bike cycling.

Plenty of choice from around £1,500, which I reckon is good value for what you get.

There are limitless combinations in kits, although most of the choices don't make a great deal of difference to the user experience.

Looks like Colin has a sensible and reasonable customer.

She has identified a key priority - a quiet motor - and wants something that will enable her to accompany him on his shorter day rides.

That's eminently doable with an Aikema motor connected to a decent quality battery and controller.

Colin's tech skills will do the rest.


----------



## CXRAndy (8 Aug 2020)

My wife's bike has a 740W/h battery. I initially charged it up to max and she did several rides totalling near 90 miles on flat roads.
We have done 30 mile rides on rolling terrain with a max charge of 85% and she had 30% left. Another ride was 46 miles flat but quick, well for her and she ran out 200 yds from home- again 85% charge. 

Last weekend 23 miles bumpy lumpy half off road 40% left

I would personally build up a ride log of distance, terrain, weather and charge level, start and finish. This will give her confidence of the range. 

There is a way to eek out as much range and still keep the battery from dying. Reduce assist as much as possible, don't put any sudden demand on the motor, I mean no rapid acceleration. This helps the system from abruptly shutting down due to minimum battery threshold.

My wife's long ride battery death, we knew 10 miles from home it was critical by seeing the voltage dip at any demand by acceleration. We reduced and evened out our pace. 

Anything more than 35 miles I will charge to 100% in future


----------



## fromjusttheking (9 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Hi Alan
> 
> My first kit was for my wife's shopper/mild gravel bike in the first post. I bought this motor kit from another USA supplier Electrifybike(from memory). I had to get my battery from a Chinese wholesaler due to HAZMAT regulations sending batteries from the USA.
> 
> ...



Hi Andy,

I finished my TSDZ2 install today (Saturday), tomorrow I'll go over everything, make sure everything is on tight, and all cables are securely routed and not stressed. Fired up the 860c display, tapped a few buttons and the motor kicked in for a moment or to, at least enough to tell me that everything was connected and apparently working. Then off the trike stand it goes and will try it out for a check ride. This will be my first time ever riding an E-powered bike or trike. Should be very interesting. Then I'll do it all over again on my wife's Catrike Trail. I just got the 806c display manual, so I have to check it out to see what the max speed setting currently is. The initial settings were mostly wrong, so I reset those. I'm going to try it out to see how it goes first before I switch over to OSF. The display says my Hardware version is: E 1.0, and Software version is: 1.0T-V1. Are those the latest versions for my system NOT using OSF? If not, where would I or should I go to to get the latest updates, again NOT using OSF? Possibly on Dave's website at Eco Cycles? 

I have no expectation of setting max assist speed any higher than 20mph but don't know what it is set for at the moment. Haven't had the time to go into Advance Settings to see what it is.

You mentioned: "The newer TSDZ2 have a main helical cut gear for less noise and on ours its very quiet indeed." Since I got our 2 systems from Dave about mid July, wouldn't I have the same helical cut gear that you have? I was unaware that there was a newer gear other than the blue plastic one and the metal one that is much more noisy. I did install the "brake cable pull thru" brakes, and they seem to work just fine, especially since the system came with them, also the speed sensor and throttle. My battery is a Hailong base Jumbo 48V-14.5AH with Samsung 29E cells.

I had no idea that there even was a Roanoke, WV. I've been in Roanoke, VA. That is funny though, but hopefully, next time. There are many bike paths and trails out here on the east coast.

Will keep you updated on my progress. 

Alan


----------



## Pale Rider (9 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> My wife's bike has a 740W/h battery. I initially charged it up to max and she did several rides totalling near 90 miles on flat roads.
> We have done 30 mile rides on rolling terrain with a max charge of 85% and she had 30% left. Another ride was 46 miles flat but quick, well for her and she ran out 200 yds from home- again 85% charge.
> 
> Last weekend 23 miles bumpy lumpy half off road 40% left
> ...



Worth remembering none of the capacity meters can take full account of battery sag.

Meters that give a percentage capacity read out are particularly misleading.

The first 33 percent of battery use will give a lot more miles than the last 33 percent.

Thus if you finish a ride on '33%' remaining you have nothing like a third left of the distance travelled since full charge.

My Bosch bikes use a blob system, but it's just the same to a greater or lesser extent.

It might be 15 or so miles before the first blob goes out, but the last blob might only take me five or six miles.

The answer, such as it is, is to fully charge before every ride, unless you are literally only going to do a handful of miles.

That's also better for battery health.


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Aug 2020)

fromjusttheking said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> I finished my TSDZ2 install today (Saturday), tomorrow I'll go over everything, make sure everything is on tight, and all cables are securely routed and not stressed. Fired up the 860c display, tapped a few buttons and the motor kicked in for a moment or to, at least enough to tell me that everything was connected and apparently working. Then off the trike stand it goes and will try it out for a check ride. This will be my first time ever riding an E-powered bike or trike. Should be very interesting. Then I'll do it all over again on my wife's Catrike Trail. I just got the 806c display manual, so I have to check it out to see what the max speed setting currently is. The initial settings were mostly wrong, so I reset those. I'm going to try it out to see how it goes first before I switch over to OSF. The display says my Hardware version is: E 1.0, and Software version is: 1.0T-V1. Are those the latest versions for my system NOT using OSF? If not, where would I or should I go to to get the latest updates, again NOT using OSF? Possibly on Dave's website at Eco Cycles?
> 
> ...



If you've gone with standard software, then its probably best to use the brake cutoff s. 

Go back to Eco cycles for advice on latest information.

Its likely you will have a 20mph cut off being sold into the USA. It will be noticeable when assistance is cut, either 15.6 mph or 20 mph. 

The plastic gear is a design sacrificial part to protect the motor from likely damaged. Its when the rear wheel is locked up suddenly or huge torque is forced through the pedals.

I will have the same motor as you, been manufactured 18 months now.


Glad it all went well for your first install.

Regards Andy


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Aug 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Worth remembering none of the capacity meters can take full account of battery sag.
> 
> Meters that give a percentage capacity read out are particularly misleading.
> 
> ...



This is open software, with lots of additional features

I set my wife's to read voltage instead of percentage. 

However the open software can be setup to read Wattage, Watt hours, Watt used/ remaining, current etc etc. 

With careful analysis of the battery capacity, accurate battery drain can be displayed. I haven't gone into the setup yet. We know that low 49 Volts is time to take care and not put sudden demand on the system. It will then continue down into 47/48V. Potentially lasting a further 10 miles


----------



## plustwos (21 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> There is a metal spine to the battery mount, encased with plastic. The plastic is for the mount key-ways for the battery to slip onto. The lock pin enters the metal spine, preventing easy theft attempts.
> 
> If you do get your wife an ebike or convert one, you will find she will possibly out ride you into headwinds especially with a slight gradient. Steeper hills, she will destroy you. She will looked refreshed at the top of a climb as you arrive gasping, sweat dripping off your brow.



Apologies for not replying earlier. I've just waved a magnet over the holder for my battery and it's non-magnetic; may be stainless of course but I doubt it since it gives slightly when pressed. I had assumed that they were all just hard plastic, hence the much heftier tubing. But now I realize there may be tougher ones specifically for conversions. I take your point about drilling holes to relieve stress but I think I would fight shy of drilling my wife's ancient Dawes.
As for her destroying me, she wouldn't dare, her memory is beginning to be troublesome and she needs me to find the way home )

Ken


----------



## CXRAndy (23 Aug 2020)

Im not precious about the Columbia, it was a sub £500 bike brand new.


----------



## fromjusttheking (26 Aug 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> If you've gone with standard software, then its probably best to use the brake cutoff s.
> 
> Go back to Eco cycles for advice on latest information.
> 
> ...



Well Andy, yesterday, I finally completed my wife's TSDZ2 install, but not without some unexpected problems that I did not have when I did mine earlier this month. Basically, she is shorter than I am, and the chain didn't fit over the largest rear cassette sprocket, only went up to the next to largest one. After an intense investigation and help from a good friend, it was determined that there were 3 things that had to be done. The shift cable was a bit too loose, and the chain was a bit too short. All of that then necessitated some readjustment to the rear derailleur's settings. After all that, everything now seems to be in order. She had a shorter length on her Catrike Trail center boom, and a different front triple front chainring than I had. So it may have been made smaller for her. I don't know, as I didn't count links. I added a an extra "real" link, and that seemed to do the job. Today she will do a "check ride" to make sure everything is operating correctly. Then on to programming her 860c display. Eventually I will probably switch over to OSF, once I see how it all goes after few rides. Then I will probably ask you for some advice and help on using it. Will attach photos after all is checked out on our initial rides. 

Alan


----------

