# Pinarello heaven but what to do?



## alci4 (31 Aug 2011)

went to Bicicielo in brum yesterday on my way to evans to scope out a bike and boy is it pinarello heaven,staff were more than nice, lovely store e.t.c

fell in love with this (it's a fair but cheaper at wiggle) http://www.wiggle.co...ra-2011-1/#more

but rrp is £1229

was thinking with the respect boardman bikes get in that price range would this be a better buy

http://www.halfords....yId_165710#dtab

not a lot in the rrp and the boardman but carbon frame on the boardman

which would peeps go for 

i am going from mountain bikes to my first road bike so know vary little any advice appreciated

the FP1 is beautiful to look at though lol


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## NormanD (31 Aug 2011)

Your best bet is to park your backside on both bikes and make your choice from there ... bikes don't ride well on looks alone! .. what looks nice to you, might ride like a three legged Jack Russell in a Greyhound race with your type of riding style.

So the best bet is to try them out


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## alci4 (31 Aug 2011)

dont think halfords let you try em  may be wrong though


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## VamP (31 Aug 2011)

Yes the Boardman (amongst others) is better value than the Pina. The cheap componentry on the Pina will have you hankering after upgrades before you know it.

Depends what your goals in cycling are, but take a look at the offerings from Planet X, Ribble, Cube and Rose before you make any decisions. Their bikes will generally be better equipped at any given price-point.


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## gaz (31 Aug 2011)

Everyone knows the FP1 is bottom of the range with poor quality components for the price. Much better off getting a board man


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## smokeysmoo (31 Aug 2011)

Give me aluminium any day, but not that Pina


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## alci4 (31 Aug 2011)

but it's soooooo pretty lmao

saw this at evans cycles any good anyone?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/bianchi/via-nirone-7-xenon-compact-2011-road-bike-ec025814


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## Rob3rt (31 Aug 2011)

Cannondale! Buy one, dont look back.


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## smokeysmoo (31 Aug 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> Cannondale! Buy one, dont look back.



I did and haven't. Can't, it's too bloody fast


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## VamP (31 Aug 2011)

alci4 said:


> but it's soooooo pretty lmao
> 
> saw this at evans cycles any good anyone?
> 
> http://www.evanscycl...d-bike-ec025814




I've actually got one of these  

You can get it cheaper than that, shop around. I have also upgraded wheel and chainsets, so it's a properly fast bike now (as well as about 1kg lighter). 

As with the Pina, the level of equipment on the Bianchi is not as good as you might get for that price elsewhere. It is however very pretty


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## alci4 (31 Aug 2011)

any ideas what entry level Cannondales i should be looking at

thanks for any advice


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## barongreenback (31 Aug 2011)

I can't go in there any more - I get seduced by all the pretty stuff and usually come out having purchased at leastone bit of overpriced Lezyne gizmo. Those bikes seem awfully expensive for what they are. Although I wouldn't say no to a Dogma if that gave me a 95% discount.


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## smokeysmoo (31 Aug 2011)

alci4 said:


> any ideas what entry level Cannondales i should be looking at
> 
> thanks for any advice



I can wholly recommend the CAAD bikes from Cannondale, check them out HERE. In fact I've just noticed in posting that link that the entry level 105 CAAD has had £300 knocked off the price, now just £999!!!! That's a real bargain 

Here's a pic of my baby, a CAAD10 Dura-Ace. Note; she's not factory standard anymore. I need to update the image actually as she's now got Conti 4000s tyres and red jockey wheels and I've altered the bar position down a bit


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## Rob3rt (31 Aug 2011)

alci4 said:


> any ideas what entry level Cannondales i should be looking at
> 
> thanks for any advice



CAAD 8 105 should be about the £1k mark. The CAAD10 like Smokeysmoo's but with lesser groupset was about £1300 last I looked.

I have a CAAD9, they no longer do this model, very nice bike, and I have just put a deposit on a second Cannondale bike too, lovely bikes.


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## Atomic_18 (1 Sep 2011)

Have you considered looking second hand?

Reason I ask is that I got an Argon 18 Krypton for just over £1k with Sram rival gruppo - although it has an Sram carbon chainset - Sram S30 wheels, Schwalbe Ultremo R1 Tyres, carbon seatpost, Zipp Stem, Zipp handlebars, Zipp Carbon Bottle cage and Look Carbon/Ti blade clipless pedals (And i've probably forgotten some of the other little bits on there). 

Had it weighed and set up properly for me yesterday - came in at 7.7kg and is properly quick


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## smokeysmoo (1 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> CAAD 8 105 should be about the £1k mark. The CAAD10 like Smokeysmoo's but with lesser groupset was about £1300 last I looked.


Rob's spot on, the CAAD10 105 list price is £1300, but Wheelbase are currently offering it at £999, which is £1 less than the CAAD8 105  


The 2012 CAAD10 will be coming through shortly, (which has probably spurred the price cut), but I've not heard any specs for 2012 bikes other than the 2012 Dura-Ace model. I've heard that gets DA front mech, black Ultegra calipers, and Schwalbe Ultremo R1 rubber, but the price will probably still be £2500, (if not more!).

The CAAD10 105 at £999 must be the best value bike, (from a major manufacturer) you can currently buy, IMO anyway


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## Rob3rt (1 Sep 2011)

CAAD10 105 at £999, its a no brainder IMO. Seriously, the lightest most advanced aluminium production frame to date, with a race ready groupset, probly comes in at less than 8kg with the stock wheels, forget that boardman dross, this thing will probly exceed most manufacturers £2k carbon machines, assuming it fits you right (however not sure if the CAAD10 is as harsh as the CAAD9, but you might want to save an extra £100 for a carbon seatpost to save your arse ).

I'm well on my way to becoming Cannondale loyal though, so bare that in mind when considering my opinion  i.e. treat it with some healthy skepticism


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## smokeysmoo (1 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> CAAD10 105 at £999, its a no brainer IMO. Seriously, the lightest most advanced aluminium production frame to date, with a race ready groupset, probably comes in at less than 8kg with the stock wheels, this thing will probably exceed most manufacturers £2k carbon machines, assuming it fits you right (however not sure if the CAAD10 is as harsh as the CAAD9, but you might want to save an extra £100 for a carbon seatpost to save your arse ).
> 
> I'm well on my way to becoming Cannondale loyal though, so bare that in mind when considering my opinion  i.e. treat it with some healthy skepticism


Rob speaks very wisely indeed  Some doom mongers criticise the thin tubing of the CAAD10 saying it dents too easily, however when some knob knocked mine over into a railing on the Manchester to Blackpool this year the top tube merely got scuffed, despite hitting the rail square on it hasn't dented in the slightest, so that rumour is well and truly squashed.

My bike weighs in at 16.5 lbs, (7.5 kg). Granted it's now full DA, (changed the front mech and calipers), the wheels are Mavic Ksyrium SL's, and the finishing kit is full Ritchey WCS alu, but even the stock 105 won't be much more I wouldn't have thought.

As far as harsh goes I don't think it is. The longest single ride to date has been the Manchester to Blackpool where I clocked 62 miles, and I was actually fresher off the bike than I was 12 months earlier on the Focus Cayo Pro I used to own.

The 105 comes with a carbon wrapped seat post, so perhaps that would be ok. My CAAD DA came with a full carbon seat post, (Cannondale C2), that was the first thing I changed. Replaced it with a Ritchey WCS alu post, (my preference as I'm anti-carbon, chainset will be changed to DA when funds allow).

I always wanted a Cannondale even when I used to ride MTB's, and now I have one I'm very, very happy with it. Supply can be a bit hit and miss, so I'd strongly urge that if you like the CAAD10, and you can source one in your size don't think about it too long, grab it while you can. My CAAD in a 60 frame was the last one in the country at the time, I dread to think how long I might have had to wait if I'd had to order it.

I appreciate Wheelbase in Kendal would be a bit of a trek from Birmingham, but it was the best bike buying experience I've ever had, (and only an hour away for me). The staff are knowledgeable, enthused and friendly. They are all bikers themselves and can give advice sourced from both their own experiences and that of the Wheelbase racing team. So if you fancy a day out in the Lake District I would recommend Wheelbase to you without any reservations.


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## alci4 (1 Sep 2011)

i am liking the look of it

i am 5,11" but have quite a few pounds need shedding at the moment

love getting out on my g.t xcr with semi slicks on and my voodoo bokor mtb's but the most i have done is 50 miles so i am looking for a bike thats faster and gonna go the distance on road

i am planning my first century brum to liverpool and would like a fairly nippy but smooth ride

looking around net only place i found with size chart says 56 or 58 frame would suit but that seems a bit vague any opinions guys?

cheers for all your help so far


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## Rob3rt (1 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> My bike weighs in at 16.5 lbs, (7.5 kg). Granted it's now full DA, (changed the front mech and calipers), the wheels are Mavic Ksyrium SL's, and the finishing kit is full Ritchey WCS alu, but even the stock 105 won't be much more I wouldn't have thought.



My CAAD9 is full tiagra with all stock own brand finishing kit and still comes under 8kg I think, based on some crude measurement techniques I admit. When I weighed it, this included Look Keo Classic pedals, and a saddlepack containing, 2 spare tubes, tyre levers, repair kit and a couple of quid in change. Plus 1 plastic bottle cage.

alci4 - I'm 6' 2.5" tall with approx 88-89cm inside leg and ride both a 58cm CAAD9 and soon to be a 58cm Slice. You will probly find the reach on the 58cm a bit long I recon. It fits me pretty good reach wise, but I needed a longer seatpost to get the height right (the cannondale one supplied wasnt very long).

Im a Cannondale fanboy a bit, everytime I look at bikes and take test rides, as soon as I ride a Cannondale, it just rides "right" for me and anything after that feels like a toy, even the lower equiped models (like my CAAD9 - Tiagra). But being totally objective, a low end Pinarello vs a bike that probly rivals £2k carbon bikes is a no brainer imo, assuming you can get one that fits right.


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## smokeysmoo (1 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> looking around net only place i found with size chart says 56 or 58 frame would suit but that seems a bit vague any opinions guys?



If you've got a Cannondale dealer near you, EVANS or On Your Bike maybe?, see what they've got in. Cannondale's tend to be a touch longer on the top tube than other manufacturers, but this shouldn't pose any problems, and can be dialled in by a shorter/longer stem if required, but any good LBS will advise you on this.
Evans do test rides, (£50 refundable deposit usually), so that's worth considering. They will also order a bike in for you for the same refundable deposit, and if you don't like it get you money back and walk away, but I'd bet you a quid you end up buying one if you do that 

I couldn't actually find a CAAD10 in my size anywhere, so I had to base my decision on past experience, other bikes I own and I had a look at the Synapse in my size as the top tube length is pretty much identical. 

Good luck, there's something quite unmatched about buying a new bike, I'm jealous


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## alci4 (1 Sep 2011)

had a look at evans but they dont have the caad 10 105 (buggar)


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## alci4 (2 Sep 2011)

emailed "on your bike" and they have the caad 10 56 frame in so gonna go and check it out

still wondering if i aint better paying bit more for a carbon (not really sure of the advantages but reading seems to be a smother ride over long distances) what do you guys think will the caad 10 be ok for me over longer distances?

thanks for your ongoing help lads but it's a lot of cash for  poor little me  to part with


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## Rob3rt (2 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> emailed "on your bike" and they have the caad 10 56 frame in so gonna go and check it out
> 
> still wondering if i aint better paying bit more for a carbon (not really sure of the advantages but reading seems to be a smother ride over long distances) what do you guys think will the caad 10 be ok for me over longer distances?
> 
> thanks for your ongoing help lads but it's a lot of cash for  poor little me  to part with



The CAAD10 will be fine for long rides, its only been about 4-5 years since Cannondale saw fit to drop the alu frames on their pro line. They were still suppplying alu frames to pro's long after other brands jumped on the carbon bandwagon.

You are probly looking at 500-600 more an equivalent bike made from carbon IMO.


But if you do fancy carbon at around £1k then this might be a good choice http://www.wiggle.co.uk/focus-cayo-105-ltd-2011/


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## smokeysmoo (2 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> still wondering if i aint better paying bit more for a carbon (not really sure of the advantages but reading seems to be a smother ride over long distances) *what do you guys think will the caad 10 be ok for me over longer distances?*


My CAAD is perfectly fine on my average rides of upto 40 miles. The longest ride I've done was just over 60 miles and again it was perfect. I would have no hesitation in riding further, but I'm simply not fit enough!. I was actually fresher off the CAAD after 60 miles than I was off the Focus Cayo Pro I used to own, so go figure? I'm also riding the Cat & Fiddle ride in October, 55 mile loop from Brian Rourke Cycles in Stoke, and I'll be doing that on the CAAD, no question  

I would, (bias aside), honestly go for the CAAD. I had a Cayo and while it was a very good bike, it's definitely not a Cannondale. I've had 3 Focus bikes, (1 carbon road, 1 alu CX, 1 carbon MTB), and I had issues with two of them, (the carbon MTB and the carbon road bike!). While both were resolved under warranty, (the Cayo ended up with a new frame, the MTB with new forks), it was obviously a right hassle having to package them up and send them back and wait for it getting sorted.

Also, don't forget the CAAD will be lighter than virtually all carbon frames as well, (at least until you get into pro team spec frames anyway). Like Rob said, Cannondale were still prevalent in the TDF long after all the others jumped to carbon, and in fact they were the last team to win the TDF on an alu frame  

I *REALLY* hope you like the CAAD when you try it Buddy, it must be just about the best value road money can buy at £999 IMHO.

Let us know how you get on


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## alci4 (4 Sep 2011)

just got back from leisurelakes bikes bikes in wolverhampton

guy said the 56 is the right frame on paper, let me stand over it but with the saddle to high and no pedals still hard to tell? 

but advised me against getting it for my first road bike as it is very race specific

gotta say it looked the nuts and was really light but he was trying to push the synapse

do like the caad 10 though

any thoughts guys???


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

The CAAD is more aggressive than the Synapse, but not to the extent that it would cause you any problems. Plus the fact you can adjust the stem to give a more upright position if you wanted to.

I am certainly not the athletic type, (I'd post a picture but don't want to break the Wife's camera?), yet I find the CAAD to be a perfectly comfortable and compliant machine.

The Synapse is not a bad bike at all, but just wonder if the LBS has a glut of them he wants to shift, or perhaps he's been offered an incentive for selling Synapse's. Can't really see any other reason for trying to push you into one.

Leisure Lakes should do test rides? After all it's the only way you can be sure in your own mind 

PS: I don't actually like Leisure Lakes, but that's due to the fact they never have what I want, the staff are generally pretty surly, (at Bury anyway), and they always seem more interested in MTB's than 'proper' bikes


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## alci4 (4 Sep 2011)

i said more or less the same thing to the wife about pushing the synapse

i mailed them to see if they had one in store before i went and they said they had 1 in store and one elsewhere bt one of them was already sold and they wouldnt be getting any more till november

i did wonder if that one in store was the one sold and they were just trying to push me in a different direction to ensure i walked away with a bike they had in stock


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## alci4 (4 Sep 2011)

just found a caad10 105 compact for £950 online


what is the difference between this and the 105


cheers once again for your help but i dont wanna make any expensive mistakes


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

I'm pretty sure the bike in the link above is a Compact as well. It refers to the front chain rings - Compact means two, Triple - three. 

If you lived in a very hilly area, triple every time, but otherwise a compact will suit you better. I'm not 100% but it does seem that it's only some bikes that you can get the option to have a triple or compact. 


Really interested in this thread as i'm looking at a Cannondale as well. Can you guys explain the differences between the Synapse Tiagra and then the two CAAD bikes - the 8 and 10 in a bit more detail please? What makes the synapse a better bike for a first road bike? I guess a lot of it is personal so it's probably a case of getting out and trying them as much as possible. 

I was all set to go for the synapse tiagra until reading this thread - Is the synapse 105 worth a look? or at around 1k, is the CAAD10 105 a no brainer? (Sorry to hijack)


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## vickster (4 Sep 2011)

If you like Italian, Cyclesurgery were selling the Willier Lavaredo at £200 below list. Might be worth a ride too


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

The CAAD's all comes as compacts, my CAAD10 DA is also a compact. A compact is a double, but refers specifically to the inner chainring, generally 34 teeth on a compact compared to generally 39 teeth on a standard double. Triple's move it on further with the addition of a third chainring, (not necessary IMHO on a road bike).
The compact is a great compromise when getting into road bikes, it helps you on the toughest hills and retains a reasonable turn of speed on the flat sections.

IMHO the CAAD10 105 at £999, (or £950 even better!) is a complete no brainer, but please remember, as a CAAD10 owner I might be biased


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## Sittingduck (4 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> went to Bicicielo in brum yesterday on my way to evans to scope out a bike and boy is it pinarello heaven,staff were more than nice, lovely store e.t.c
> 
> fell in love with this (it's a fair but cheaper at wiggle) http://www.wiggle.co...ra-2011-1/#more
> 
> *but rrp is £1229*



How on Earth can they justify pricing a Tiagra specced bike at this kind of money. They can't even make the forks straight!


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> just got back from leisurelakes bikes bikes in wolverhampton
> 
> guy said the 56 is the right frame on paper, let me stand over it but with the saddle to high and no pedals still hard to tell?
> 
> ...



So they didnt sling a pair of pedals on, set the saddle to the right height and let you take the bike out for a test ride? They could at least have put the bike on a turbo for you :S I know someone who works in a leisurelakes bikes store, I'll comment to him about this and ask if its the norm or if you got fobbed off by a shoot salesman. 

As for the bike being very race specific, well in some respects he is right, the CAAD frame is a purebred racer, its stiff in all the right places and has a reasonably aggresive racing geometry. This can mean its a bit head down, arse up, and a bit harsh to ride. BUT....... this can be remedied by setting it up to suit your needs, the stem can be turned upside down (or a different stem fitted), this will raise the bars somewhat. The addition of a carbon seatpost will ease out some of the ride harshness. Then if you do want to go fast as fast can be at some point you set it up to race.

The Synapse has a taller headtube, this effectivelly raises the bars giving a more relaxed ride possition, its a bike aimed at people who fantasise about racing, but will never actually do it. To set it up to get a true race setup as far as ride possition is concerned, it wouldnt be too hard you could use some absurdly aggressive stem angle or pop all the headset spacers on top of the stem, rather than under it BUT it will never be as stiff as a CAAD. One main feature of the synapse is the SAVE seat stays, these are a special design which acts as micro suspension smoothing out the ride, it actually works, its good, but I'd still rather ride a CAAD. 

The CAAD is the benchmark alu frame, it will race with the best of them, it will also suit a sportive rider (pretend racer). It will depend on setup.





alci4 said:


> just found a caad10 105 compact for £950 online
> 
> 
> what is the difference between this and the 105
> ...



Compact, Double and Triple refer to front chainsets, a compact and a double have 2 chainrings, a triple has 3. Compacts usually have lower teeth counts and I THINK, a larger gap between the tooth count on the big ring and small ring.




GazP said:


> I'm pretty sure the bike in the link above is a Compact as well. It refers to the front chain rings - Compact means two, Triple - three.
> 
> *If you lived in a very hilly area, triple every time*, but otherwise a compact will suit you better. I'm not 100% but it does seem that it's only some bikes that you can get the option to have a triple or compact.
> 
> ...



Only if you are a sissy.

Read above for difference in CAAD and synapse.

The difference between the CAAD8 and the CAAD10 is just the trickle down technology. The CAAD10 is a more refined version of the CAAD frame design. The CAAD8 was once previously the top frame, then a new one came along, so CAAD9, then a better one came out, CAAD10 and so on. I have a CAAD9, they didnt have a CAAD9 this year, not sure why. Probly a marketing strategy.


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

Sittingduck said:


> How on Earth can they justify pricing a Tiagra specced bike at this kind of money. They can't even make the forks straight!



Pinarello bikes are always over priced and they are damn ugly. When I got my 1st road bike, they had a sora equipped pinarello in stock, £1k.


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> One main feature of the synapse is the SAVE seat stays, these are a special design which acts as micro suspension smoothing out the ride, it actually works, its good, but I'd still rather ride a CAAD.


Not forgetting Rob that the CAAD10 has SAVE chainstays also to assist with a compliant ride, and believe me, they work as well


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Not forgetting Rob that the CAAD10 has SAVE chainstays also to assist with a compliant ride, and believe me, they work as well



I didnt know it had save seat stays, the CAAD9 didnt, probly why its so harsh. The Slice has the SAVE seat stays.


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> I didnt know it had save seat stays, the CAAD9 didnt, probly why its so harsh. The Slice has the SAVE seat stays.


Never ridden a CAAD9, but it certainly works on the 10. It's actually got SAVE chain stays not seat stays though


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> Never ridden a CAAD9, but it certainly works on the 10. It's actually got SAVE chain stays not seat stays though



Hmm, dunno, not looked at a CAAD10 in the flesh, I should be picking my Slice up on tuesday though  Cant wait.


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## alci4 (4 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> The CAAD's all comes as compacts, my CAAD10 DA is also a compact. A compact is a double, but refers specifically to the inner chainring, generally 34 teeth on a compact compared to generally 39 teeth on a standard double. Triple's move it on further with the addition of a third chainring, (not necessary IMHO on a road bike).
> The compact is a great compromise when getting into road bikes, it helps you on the toughest hills and retains a reasonable turn of speed on the flat sections.
> 
> IMHO the CAAD10 105 at £999, (or £950 even better!) is a complete no brainer, but please remember, as a CAAD10 owner I might be biased



 yeah you may be biased but anyone that passionate about their ride says only good things about the bike


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> yeah you may be biased but anyone that passionate about their ride says only good things about the bike


Yeah I am biased, but I tell the truth with it


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

Rob - Thanks for the information. 

To sum up, are you basically saying the geometry of the bikes is the main difference then between the Synapse and the CAAD bikes? 

Is the 105 a big difference over the Tiagra?




smokeysmoo said:


> Yeah I am biased, but I tell the truth with it




Tbh it's infectious! Especially when as the OP has said you can get the CAAD10 105 for £950! 

http://triuk.com/product/cannondale-2011-caad-10-105-compact


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> The Synapse has a taller headtube, this effectivelly raises the bars giving a more relaxed ride possition, *its a bike aimed at people who fantasise about racing,* but will never actually do it. To set it up to get a true race setup as far as ride possition is concerned, it wouldnt be too hard you could use some absurdly aggressive stem angle or pop all the headset spacers on top of the stem, rather than under it BUT it will never be as stiff as a CAAD. One main feature of the synapse is the SAVE seat stays, these are a special design which acts as micro suspension smoothing out the ride, it actually works, its good, but I'd still rather ride a CAAD.



With that in mind, why is it you could literally spend thoasands on a Synapse model such as the ones below if in theory the Synapse is aimed at people who only fantasise about racing? (Genuinely just interested to know why you can spend a lot of money on something which is ineffect more comfortable and not as streamlined as the CAAD or similar range?) 

http://triuk.com/search/luceneapi_node/cannondale synapse


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

GazP said:


> With that in mind, why is it you could literally spend thoasands on a Synapse model such as the ones below if in theory the Synapse is aimed at people who only fantasise about racing? (Genuinely just interested to know why you can spend a lot of money on something which is ineffect more comfortable and not as streamlined as the CAAD or similar range?)
> 
> http://triuk.com/sea...ndale%20synapse



The main reason being carbon fibre. Why pay more for a bike that will weigh more than the CAAD10?


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> The main reason being carbon fibre. Why pay more for a bike that will weigh more than the CAAD10?



Cheers! I guess that really shows how light the CAAD10 bike is then. (Can't see me getting the Synapse after i've seen a CAAD10 instore!)


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

GazP said:


> *Is the 105 a big difference over the Tiagra?*



You won't notice any difference IMHO. The primary difference is weight. That said I personally consider groupsets in two categories - bear in mind I am only referring to Shimano.

2300 to Tiagra, and 105 to Dura-Ace. So by my way of thinking, 105 is the first of the top end groupsets. This is just my opinion mind. I've never used anything below 105 for a ride of any length, and IME the man in the street will not differentiate between 105, Ultegra and DA.

I have full DA on my CAAD10. In fact I preferred the DA that was on my 2006 Trek Madone 5.5, that was noticeably better, but hey ho who am I to stand int he way of development!

IMHO if you opt for anything less than 105 on bikes of this caliber you'll only be hankering after upgrades before you know it 

FWIW, if you have the option, I wouldn't personally consider Campagnolo on a road bike of this genre for all the tea in China. I find it generally too agricultural. Then again if you have the chance, try it, you might love it, just food for thought


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## smokeysmoo (4 Sep 2011)

GazP said:


> Cheers! I guess that really shows how light the CAAD10 bike is then. (Can't see me getting the Synapse after i've seen a CAAD10 instore!)



You know it makes sense  

FWIW. My CAAD10 is a 60cm frame, currently has Conti GP4000s tyres and I changed the bars, stem and seatpost to Ritchey WCS, (aluminium, although oe seatpost was carbon fibre), and it still only weighs around 16.5lbs


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

GazP said:


> Rob - Thanks for the information.
> 
> To sum up, are you basically saying the geometry of the bikes is the main difference then between the Synapse and the CAAD bikes?
> 
> ...



Yes its the geometry that distinguishes the two, the synapse is more relaxed and upright, the CAAD, more aggresive and racey. Both will be thin from the front and rear, but they will put the rider into a different riding position. 

Also the SAVE stays on the Synapse are a key feature. These make the bike even more comfortable to ride. Smokeysmoo mentions the new CAAD has these, I dont know much about this, but from the pics of the Synapse, and the CAAD, the stays on the Synapse look more like the full SAVE stay whereas the ones on the CAAD may be an adaptation or compromised version to give some comfort, but retain the super stiffness the CAAD series is known for.

The main difference between tiagra and 105, is the 10 speed cassete of the 105 over the 9 speed cassete of the tiagra, so in short, more gears. Plus a little bit of weight saving (marginal and not worth worrying about) and the brakes of 105 are a cartridge based system where the actual brake block slides out and can be replaced without having to re-setup the brakes. The whole brake block assembly is replaced on the tiagra, meaning you have to go through the set up procedure every new set of blocks, or if you frequently switch between aluminium and carbon wheels.

Whatever groupset you get, if the frame is carbon with a BB30 bottom bracket shell make sure the crankset is BB30, if its not, and an adapter has been fitted to a carbon bottom bracket shell, its a permanent fixure and you will never be able to take advantage of the bb30 bottom bracket (i.e. increased stiffness and weight saving features). Aluminium frames, not so much a concern as the adapter can be pressed back out using a special tool any good Cannondale dealer will have.



GazP said:


> With that in mind, why is it you could literally spend thoasands on a Synapse model such as the ones below if in theory the Synapse is aimed at people who only fantasise about racing? (Genuinely just interested to know why you can spend a lot of money on something which is ineffect more comfortable and not as streamlined as the CAAD or similar range?)
> 
> http://triuk.com/sea...ndale%20synapse



Its a carbon bike made by a great company, and includes a groupset and components by certain manufacturers, its costed accordingly. Its not a worse bike than the CAAD, its just different.

If you start looking at the hi-mod versions, this is a step up again form normal carbon using newer technology for various advantages.


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

Rob and Smokeysmoo - Thanks very much for all the info. 

I'm still a little confused as to whether a 105 is better (or worth the extra outlay) over a Tiagra even in say two Synapse models... 

http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=1769&category_id=149

Or 105 

http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=1770&category_id=149


I agree the more the value goes towards the latter above, the more i come to question whether i should be on a CAAD bike and i'll agree from all the discussion i'm completely hooked on the gorgeous black frame of the CAAD10 105, but more imporant to me is getting the geometry right which only testing these can determine.


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2011)

105 is better, its lighter, has more gears (2 more on a compact or double, 3 more on a tripple) and like I said the brakes are much more convenient, especially if you switch wheels a lot. If you can afford the 105, I'd got with 105. If not, tiagra is definatelly a solid performer, my CAAD9 has tiagra, my tri bike has 105.

BUT what you must look out for is the crankset, Shimano do not support BB30, thus the chainset will need to be be made by someone else, you will be wanting something like the FSA Gossimer chainset. If the bike comes with a shimano crankset then the frame has been fitted with an adapter, if its a carbon frame, then you are stuck with this forever and its a waste. The adapter is a permanent addition to carbon frames and cant be removed.

I dont like my CAAD9 being a bb30 frame with tiagra (although the CAAD is alu so the adapter can be removed and a bb30 chainset added retrospectivelly) its a waste, bb30 has a larger diameter, hollow spindle, this increses stiffness and reduced weight, so to add an adapter and use a non-bb30 chainset is a bit daft. I want a bb30 crankset to fit to this bike but atm, cant be arsed to sort it.



BTW the version you linked is the alloy version of the Synapse, not the carbon one, and I think the one with 105 has a bb30 frame, and the one with tiagra doesnt (not sure if they make bb30 and non-bb30 versions of the frame, in the past they have done with the CAAD, so its possible they do with the Synapse, at the very least its been fitted with an adapter as the bottom bracket and crankset arent bb30). The one with 105 has a bb30 bottom bracket and crankset.


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## Ajax_Gaz (4 Sep 2011)

Rob - Thanks for the info. I'll be honest trying to pick out the right bike after that is quite confusing unless it's the CAAD10 which seems to hit the mark regards the BB30 issue. 

I realise the Synapse models won't compare to the CAAD and i'll test them with my eyes open in that respect. There is a big difference in price between the Tiagra and the 105 so i'll have to weight that up as well but much appreciated all yours and smokey's help. 

Apologies again OP for jumping on your thread.


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## lozcs (4 Sep 2011)

alci4 said:


> went to Bicicielo in brum yesterday on my way to evans to scope out a bike and boy is it pinarello heaven,staff were more than nice, lovely store e.t.c




+1


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## Rob3rt (5 Sep 2011)

GazP said:


> Rob - Thanks for the info. I'll be honest trying to pick out the right bike after that is quite confusing unless it's the CAAD10 which seems to hit the mark regards the BB30 issue.
> 
> *I realise the Synapse models won't compare to the CAAD and i'll test them with my eyes open in that respect. *There is a big difference in price between the Tiagra and the 105 so i'll have to weight that up as well but much appreciated all yours and smokey's help.
> 
> Apologies again OP for jumping on your thread.



Its not that they dont compare, they have different aims. It's pointless comparing them on an arbitrary basis as one isnt clearly superior, you should compare them against your requirements and see which suits you best.


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## Ajax_Gaz (5 Sep 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> Its not that they dont compare, they have different aims. It's pointless comparing them on an arbitrary basis as one isnt clearly superior, you should compare them against your requirements and see which suits you best.



I completely agree and as much as i might really want the CAAD10, i can see me being more than happy with the Synapse tiagra as first road bike and the geometry will suit me better. But like all good things, this could be way off the mark until i've tried them.


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## alci4 (2 Jan 2012)

Just a quick update

the wife got me the Caad 10 for crimbo and i love it

thanks for all the advice and info

no clipless moments yet and it's running sweet

just got to get my fitness and weight to an acceptable standard to do the bike justice lol

took it out for my first proper blast yesterday

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/137957597

prob not the fastest but at 17 and a half stone hopefully will get faster and fitter

got m8's who want me to go out riding with them but not sure yet gotta try and get my speed up so i can keep up lol


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## Banjo (2 Jan 2012)

Nice one ,enjoy the bike . I bet by the end of summer 2012 you will be leaner and your average speed will be 3 or 4 mph higher.

Dont be tempted to go out on frosty mornings, the temptation is really strong, especially with a new bike.Plenty of horror stories on here , busted hip will put you out of action for months.I had my wake up call last winter going sideways at 20 mph I froze like a rabbit in the headlights so dont claim it was my great skill that averted a disaster  I was just lucky .


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## gaz (2 Jan 2012)

Caad 10 is a good choice, enjoy!


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