# Killer Hill need advice



## jasonmccullum (29 Sep 2013)

So i did a 70Km ride today in 3hours

However

at 60km i hit a 16% hill that lasted for 400m

how the heck do you guys train to get over one of those hills such a long way into a ride

it killed me had to walk half of it! first time ever i had to get off the bike


Thanks for the advice


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## Dusty Bin (29 Sep 2013)

Fitness, probably. Without knowing how long you've been riding, or your weight, or how much riding you do on a regular basis it's difficult to suggest anything useful.


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## jasonmccullum (29 Sep 2013)

im 13 stone and been riding for around 2 years. and i ride 3-4 times a week. ( one long ride 60km + and 2-3 smaller rides of 30-40km).


the length of the ride isnt a issue it was just this hill took the wind out of me 
after i completed the last 10 km with out any issues


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## Rob3rt (29 Sep 2013)

You simply aren't fit enough. A 15% hill, whilst being a considerable gradient, should not reduce a fit cyclist to walking!


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## GrasB (29 Sep 2013)

How do you train for that kind of thing? Long rides & short to medium duration interval training. The longer rides build up your aerobic stamina & the interval training will give you that kicking power you need.

Also gearing helps, if you're riding on a 42/53 with an 11-23 cassette then you're in trouble unless you're a strong rider, if you're on a 22/32 with 12-36 cassette then you'll climb up it with ease. 13 stone isn't exactly light but that doesn't mean that you can't climb if that 13st of muscle.


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## jasonmccullum (29 Sep 2013)

thanks for the advice

im riding a 50/39 with a 12-25 cassette

i have a body fat of around 17% so not fat or skinny either lol 

just average

more fitness work needed i think


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## Rob3rt (29 Sep 2013)

There are countless threads on this general area on the forum, probably worth searching and reading a few.


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## Born2die (29 Sep 2013)

Don't listen to the voices in your head saying quit, shout shut up at your legs find something that makes you angry snap it down a gear get out out the saddle and drive for the summit if you need motivation find a point on a hedge post etc and try to get to it then move the goalposts and when push comes to pedal shout at yourself remind yourself how disappointed you will be if you have to get off its a mind game with yourself just don't quit


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## PeteXXX (29 Sep 2013)

Don't look up the hill you're riding! Your head tells you that you're knackered before your legs realize you can do it!


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## cyberknight (29 Sep 2013)

Embrace hills as your friend , go look for them and practise.


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## buggi (29 Sep 2013)

You got up eventually didn’t you? There you go, I wouldn’t say you’re not a fit cyclist, you’re just not used to hills. 
You need to find more hills to ride on. And don’t look up, as said… you’re head will tell you “no way! “


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## Dusty Bin (29 Sep 2013)

If you don't look up - how will you be able to see where you are going?


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## Rob3rt (29 Sep 2013)

buggi said:


> You got up eventually didn’t you? There you go, I wouldn’t say you’re not a fit cyclist, *you’re just not used to hills. *
> You need to find more hills to ride on. And don’t look up, as said… you’re head will tell you “no way! “



LMFAO! In other words, not able to hold the required power output for the required duration, i.e. not fit enough.

Also, if you can hold your head up, then you should be looking ahead, not at the floor!


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## HLaB (29 Sep 2013)

@jasonmccullum keep at it and you'll get there ;-)


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## Hill Wimp (29 Sep 2013)

PeteXXX said:


> Don't look up the hill you're riding! Your head tells you that you're knackered before your legs realize you can do it!



Thats very true and its what i do. If i look, i never make it.


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## Hill Wimp (29 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> If you don't look up - how will you be able to see where you are going?



You can still look at the road in front of you without looking up.


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## Rob3rt (29 Sep 2013)

Hill Wimp said:


> You can still look at the road in front of you without looking up.



You should be looking the same distance up the road as you would in any other situation.


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## ufkacbln (29 Sep 2013)

Sometimes it just happens .... don't let it become a mental barrier.

It could be that your fluid or food intake was less than it could have been, you had a headwind for part of the ride, you hadn't slept well the previous night....

Lots of factors that mean something you would normally overcome becomes difficult.

I used to have a hill on the way to work, but if I had been called in two or three times and climbed it during the night then in the morning it was a get off and walk!


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## Broughtonblue (29 Sep 2013)

I have a mate who rides semi pro, when I asked him how he tackles some hills, his reply was....
'I don't recognise hills!' 
Oh to be that fit!


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## Dusty Bin (29 Sep 2013)

Hill Wimp said:


> You can still look at the road in front of you without looking up.



If you don't look further than your front wheel, you won't know what you are facing. And if you don't know what you are facing, how will you be able to moderate your effort?


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## Hill Wimp (29 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> If you don't look further than your front wheel, you won't know what you are facing. And if you don't know what you are facing, how will you be able to moderate your effort?


I put my head down,find my pace and push on till it's over. It's not a bloody army I'm facing .


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## derrick (29 Sep 2013)

Go find some more hills, as said before,


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## Ben M (30 Sep 2013)

Was it fitness that made you run out, or physical strength in your legs? In the current age of compact chainsets, 39/25 isn't especially low. Do you think that if you had a lower gear, you'd have been able to get up it by spinning more?


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## Dusty Bin (30 Sep 2013)

Ben M said:


> Was it fitness that made you run out, or physical strength in your legs? In the current age of compact chainsets, 39/25 isn't especially low. Do you think that if you had a lower gear, you'd have been able to get up it by spinning more?



Physical strength would not have been the issue, otherwise he would not have made it past his front door. You don't need to be 'physically strong' to ride up a hill - but you do need a good aerobic base.


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## Moodyman (30 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> You should be looking the same distance up the road as you would in any other situation.



Not everybody is of racing pedigree like you Robert, so some of us adopt different strategies to get up hills


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## CopperCyclist (30 Sep 2013)

Go slower. Many people seem to try too hard up hills - I think the brain tries to maintain the speed you were doing on the flat! My wife struggled with hills and hated then to the point that she didn't want to cycle if there was one in the way. I went out with her and told her "keep up with me". I then deliberately cycled in my lowest gear as slowly as I could without falling off. 

The hill that she had been 'unable' to climb before she got up without even breathing hard - albeit very slowly! It made her realise that she could pretty much get up anything, it's just about getting the effort balance right! 

PS I'm not advocating crawling up every hill by the way, just pointing out that you'll probably find if you go take the same hill in the above manner you'd get up it. It's then about working out how much effort is the correct amount to lessen your time climbing without physically wearing you out that you have to stop!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (30 Sep 2013)

Moodyman said:


> Not everybody is of racing pedigree like you Robert, so some of us adopt different strategies to get up hills


Racing has nothing to do with it


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## Dusty Bin (30 Sep 2013)

Moodyman said:


> Not everybody is of racing pedigree like you Robert, so some of us adopt different strategies to get up hills



Including _'not looking where you are going'_ it would seem. Why would you _not_ want to look at the road ahead?


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## BSRU (30 Sep 2013)

No specific training needed, just ride.
I recently, 100km into a ride, encountered a 1km hill with a 10% average that had a peak gradient of 16%(for several hundred metres) and managed it fine.
I am basically a commuter cyclist(50 to 80km a day) who sometimes goes out for rides(40 to 50km or so) at the weekend(during the summer).
I do not do any training, intervals or whatever I just ride for enjoyment.


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## Rob3rt (30 Sep 2013)

Moodyman said:


> Not everybody is of racing pedigree like you Robert, so some of us adopt different strategies to get up hills



What has racing got to do with it? You are riding on the open road, therefore you need to look where you are going. It's got absolutely nothing to do with performance.

Also my "racing pedigree" is that of a prolific also-ran, lmao!


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## Biker Joe (1 Oct 2013)

I recently tackled a 23% climb at the end of a 40 km ride. I have a compact chainset 50/39 and an 11/25 cassette (9 speed).
The climb almost beat me. I _almost _got off and walked 3/4 of the way up. I did manage it however. ( Very satisfied feeling at the top).
I'm 69 yrs, 6' 1", 85 kg.
So yes I think it must be a fitness thing with you.
Ride those hills young man and build up those muscles.


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## User16625 (5 Oct 2013)

PeteXXX said:


> Don't look up the hill you're riding! Your head tells you that you're knackered before your legs realize you can do it!



Some of the routes I ride its actually better to not look down.

Probably the best way to train for hills is to get into mountain biking. Usually involves long steep ascents over rough terrain. Hard but even on hills that are steep enough to raise the front wheel with every push of the pedals, I feel well used to it now. Gearing is much lower on a MTB but you still have to push yourself pretty hard.


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## Mickthemove (5 Oct 2013)

Just improve your gearing, on la vuelta they were climbing hills between 12 and 26 percent and most had 11-28 or 30 on the back, even if you don't use it, it is there incase you meet a short and Nast at the end of a good ride!

Take little notice of the tour riders on here who claim to climb every hill on 11-23 etc, let them have their moment of pain whilst you get up that hill!

I speak as a fat git of 16 and a half stone that does not walk up any hill now I have the right kit!


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## Doyleyburger (5 Oct 2013)

Hi @jasonmccullum 
Firstly as a beginner i'm no expert, but there gave been a couple of hills that I have had trouble with, but I find that slowing down a little and trying to stay as relaxed as possible has helped me overcome them. I think the pace will then improve once your used to getting up it without stopping.
Not sure about the whole looking down comment. Understand about gritting your teeth and trying to power through it, but bloody hell, even I know that you need to keep an eye on as much of the road as possible. Not just for keeping an eye on vehicles but also pot holes etc will be on you before you know it. All the best with the hill fella


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## Dusty Bin (5 Oct 2013)

Doyleyburger said:


> Hi @jasonmccullum
> Firstly as a beginner i'm no expert, *but there gave been a couple of hills that I have had trouble with*, but I find that slowing down a little and trying to stay as relaxed as possible has helped me overcome them. I think the pace will then improve once your used to getting up it without stopping.
> Not sure about the whole looking down comment. Understand about gritting your teeth and trying to power through it, but bloody hell, even I know that you need to keep an eye on as much of the road as possible. Not just for keeping an eye on vehicles but also pot holes etc will be on you before you know it. All the best with the hill fella



You're in NCE yes? Which hills are you referring to?


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

Biker Joe said:


> I recently tackled a 23% climb at the end of a 40 km ride. I have a compact chainset 50/39 and an 11/25 cassette (9 speed).
> The climb almost beat me. I _almost _got off and walked 3/4 of the way up. I did manage it however. ( Very satisfied feeling at the top).
> I'm 69 yrs, 6' 1", 85 kg.
> So yes I think it must be a fitness thing with you.
> Ride those hills young man and build up those muscles.


 
50/39 is a standard double Joe , at 85kg with a 11/25 cassette I would say you are under geared for a 23% climb , no chance your cadence up a climb like that would be any where near optimal.


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## Doyleyburger (5 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> You're in NCE yes? Which hills are you referring to?


Hi mate, yes I live very close to NCE. 
Used to struggle with the one from Penrhiwllan leading into Horeb and also the one leading from aberbanc to coed y bryn. I'm sure they're harder ones around here but they used to really do me in when I first started


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## Dusty Bin (5 Oct 2013)

Doyleyburger said:


> Hi mate, yes I live very close to NCE.
> Used to struggle with the one from Penrhiwllan leading into Horeb and also the one leading from aberbanc to coed y bryn. I'm sure they're harder ones around here but they used to really do me in when I first started



The climb to Horeb is a killer - I don't go out that way much. Not been up the other one. The worst (or best, depending) for me is from Drefach up to five roads, but I don't go up there much either. No shortage of killer climbs round here


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## lukesdad (5 Oct 2013)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Some of the routes I ride its actually better to not look down.
> 
> Probably the best way to train for hills is to get into mountain biking. Usually involves long steep ascents over rough terrain. Hard but even on hills that are steep enough to raise the front wheel with every push of the pedals, I feel well used to it now. Gearing is much lower on a MTB but you still have to push yourself pretty hard.


 Only if are going to ride an mtb on the road.


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## lukesdad (5 Oct 2013)

The A475 is a lumpy old road.


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## Doyleyburger (5 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> The climb to Horeb is a killer - I don't go out that way much. Not been up the other one. The worst (or best, depending) for me is from Drefach up to five roads, but I don't go up there much either. No shortage of killer climbs round here


Ah yes that is Cwmpengraig I think. Yet to have the guts to tackle that one ! Where abouts are you? You in a club @Dusty Bin ?


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## Biker Joe (5 Oct 2013)

Eddy said:


> 50/39 is a standard double Joe , at 85kg with a 11/25 cassette I would say you are under geared for a 23% climb , no chance your cadence up a climb like that would be any where near optimal.


I hear what you are saying. Whether it is an optimal cadence or not doesn't concern me. I have to make do with what I've got in respect to gearing.
I'm just happy that I got up that climb that day.
I've been up it again since and an even steeper one. I don't have a problem getting up them now. They are the two steepest climbs in my area so if I can get up them, anything else is a doddle.
I don't have to go up them if I don't want to. I just use them to get the muscles working hard and as an indication of my fitness. I'm getting fitter all the time.


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## lukesdad (5 Oct 2013)

The Drefach to five roads climb has a nice smooth tarmac surface now.


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

Biker Joe said:


> I hear what you are saying. Whether it is an optimal cadence or not doesn't concern me. I have to make do with what I've got in respect to gearing.
> I'm just happy that I got up that climb that day.
> I've been up it again since and an even steeper one. I don't have a problem getting up them now. They are the two steepest climbs in my area so if I can get up them, anything else is a doddle.
> I don't have to go up them if I don't want to. I just use them to get the muscles working hard and as an indication of my fitness. I'm getting fitter all the time.


 
My hats off to you sir getting up such a steep climb with those gears but you would be better served with lower gearing IMO , would be more beneficial to fitness , going up a hill in to hard a gear wont build fitness , it will increase power but not sustainable power , its a bit like what body builders do , like if you cycled on the flat in a 60/10 gear if such a thing exists.


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## Dusty Bin (5 Oct 2013)

Doyleyburger said:


> Ah yes that is Cwmpengraig I think. Yet to have the guts to tackle that one ! Where abouts are you? You in a club @Dusty Bin ?



I'm fairly local - I'll send you a pm..


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## steve52 (5 Oct 2013)

how do i get up it? slowly,red faced panting loudly and dribbeliung shoe laces


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> I'm fairly local - I'll send you a pm..


 

Your club still doing hill climb training on the flat?


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## Dusty Bin (5 Oct 2013)

tbh, I do most of my training on the flattest roads I can find. Slight inclines are also useful - but hauling yourself up every 20% wall in the area is a bit pointless if you only ride flat circuit races and a bit of cross in the winter...


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> tbh, I do most of my training on the flattest roads I can find. Slight inclines are also useful - but hauling yourself up every 20% wall in the area is a bit pointless if you only ride flat circuit races and a bit of cross in the winter...


 

Just playing with you Dusty


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## Cuchilo (6 Oct 2013)

I posted about what I thought was a killer hill when I first started cycling again . I avoided the hill for quite a while but managed it in 7-6 gear three times yesterday . I did however get some funny looks when I jumped up and down at the top shouting Adrian and humming the Rocky theme tune


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## Rob3rt (6 Oct 2013)

Eddy said:


> My hats off to you sir getting up such a steep climb with those gears but you would be better served with lower gearing IMO , would be more beneficial to fitness , going up a hill in to hard a gear wont build fitness , it will increase power but not sustainable power , its a bit like what body builders do , like if you cycled on the flat in a 60/10 gear if such a thing exists.



I am struggling to understand how you have come to these conclusions, care to elaborate?


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## User6179 (10 Oct 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I am struggling to understand how you have come to these conclusions, care to elaborate?


 
Nope!!!


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## Rob3rt (11 Oct 2013)

Eddy said:


> Nope!!!



Is that anything to do with it being a load of cobblers?


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## User6179 (11 Oct 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Is that anything to do with it being a load of cobblers?


 
care to elaborate?


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## asterix (12 Oct 2013)

Broughtonblue said:


> I have a mate who rides semi pro, when I asked him how he tackles some hills, his reply was....
> 'I don't recognise hills!'
> Oh to be that fit!



It's a state of mind!

When I did the Phil and Friends we got to Winnats Pass just after the lunch break. It's not good to have a nice filling serving of pasta just before that sort of challenge and I would have to fight the fear! Which I did and always got up it altho' one time I was nearly foiled by someone falling off in front of me. 

So just tell yourself you are going to do it.

My only defeat has been Rosedale Chimney Bank which I encountered doing the now defunct Moors 'illy Imperial. It was reached after 60 miles, a collection of daunting climbs and crossing a bleak and windswept moor. I always took a break, bought an ice cream in Rosedale and walked oop t' bu66er.


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## Linford (20 Oct 2013)

You could always do the hill at the start of the ride instead 

My little victory today is that I managed my own killer hill in one hit. It is only a 10 mile ride, as I'm struggling for time now, but it is a biggie from where I'm standing. First time I tackled it, I had to stop about 5 times to catch my breath. The best thing is I'm actually pretty close to cracking the 50mph on the descent now


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## jdtate101 (20 Oct 2013)

15% is certainly hard but not that difficult. You need to do a mixture of in and out of saddle work, measure your effort and work on your low cadence power. The latter can be done via Turbo or deliberately overgearing yourself to work on producing torque at lower RPM. Working on the cardio will also help and doing intervals on the turbo will help with lactic threshold. All these combined 'should' help you with the climbing, but there really is no substitute for willpower and ignoring the voice in your head. Once you learn to do that climbing can even become fun.


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## TheJDog (21 Oct 2013)

15% is out of the saddle stuff for most anyone - especially in the UK where there won't be long climbs of that steepness. I wouldn't hit one with a 39/25 as my smallest gear. That would be grinding it out in the most awful way. I do Swain's lane in a 34/23 if I'm fresh-ish, and if I'm knackered I'll do it in a 34/28 (though I have recently bought a new cassette without the 28, so I look forward to doing loops on Swain's with that). Swain's lane is only 400 yards or so, and only the second half gets to around 15%.


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## albion (21 Oct 2013)

People are talking when they have a 9KG bike and 10 stone body.

Make it 13KG and 15 stone you are maybe relatively tackling a 23% hill !
You simply have the wrong gears on the bike.


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## TheJDog (21 Oct 2013)

albion said:


> People are talking when they have a 9KG bike and 10 stone body.
> 
> Make it 13KG and 15 stone you are maybe relatively tackling a 23% hill !
> You simply have the wrong gears on the bike.



You're insulting my bike, but making up for it with the 10 stone talk


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## jdtate101 (21 Oct 2013)

39/25 is perfectly do-able for 15%, you just need the practice and strength to do it, both of which come over time. A local hill to me has a 1/8mile section at 15% after a 1.5 mile drag at 6% and I usually do the last section in 39/24 (I have a 28 fitted, so the next cog down). I usually head up the steepest with HR about 165, but if I'm pushing it can be 185. Yes it's painful and hard work, but doing so will make you stronger. That old saying is true...no pain no gain.

I can do 25% on a 39, but only if it's not too long, otherwise it would have to be a compact.


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## captainhastings (21 Oct 2013)

Having good cardio fitness make hills that much easier too so you can get your wind back easier


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## bornagainst (23 Oct 2013)

39/25 is a pretty high lowest gear in my opinion.. I've always taken comfort in having a 'get out of jail' 34/28 lowest gear. 
I'm sure you could try a 28 on the back without spending much money and you might find 39/28 makes a real difference.


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## Shut Up Legs (23 Oct 2013)

My advice for the killer hill is to practice... by cycling up more killer hills. You'll get used to it eventually .


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## Sara_H (23 Oct 2013)

CopperCyclist said:


> Go slower. Many people seem to try too hard up hills - I think the brain tries to maintain the speed you were doing on the flat! My wife struggled with hills and hated then to the point that she didn't want to cycle if there was one in the way. I went out with her and told her "keep up with me". I then deliberately cycled in my lowest gear as slowly as I could without falling off.
> 
> The hill that she had been 'unable' to climb before she got up without even breathing hard - albeit very slowly! It made her realise that she could pretty much get up anything, it's just about getting the effort balance right!
> 
> PS I'm not advocating crawling up every hill by the way, just pointing out that you'll probably find if you go take the same hill in the above manner you'd get up it. It's then about working out how much effort is the correct amount to lessen your time climbing without physically wearing you out that you have to stop!


 +1 to this advice. For years i've been unable to make it up the very big hill that I live at the top of, and have had to get off and walk. After my spell of ill health I found I was taking it more slowly, and hay presto I am now riding all the way up the big hill! It's still hard work, but a massive achievement and it knocks about 10 -15 minutes off my ride home because I am actually riding, not walking for the last mile!


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## HLaB (24 Oct 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> 39/25 is perfectly do-able for 15%, you just need the practice and strength to do it, both of which come over time. A local hill to me has a 1/8mile section at 15% after a 1.5 mile drag at 6% and I usually do the last section in 39/24 (I have a 28 fitted, so the next cog down). I usually head up the steepest with HR about 165, but if I'm pushing it can be 185. Yes it's painful and hard work, but doing so will make you stronger. That old saying is true...no pain no gain.
> 
> I can do 25% on a 39, but only if it's not too long, otherwise it would have to be a compact.


 
Definately, the short but steep Gloom Hill (Castle Road Dollar) is an average of 15% for a km (maxing at 31%). Used to think I had a 36t ring but discovered after I done that hill its a 39t


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