# "Why do riders refuse to use cycle paths?"



## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter FM:

"SO I'm driving through the ridiculous 20 mile-an-hour system that's been designed to stop people going to Topsham when there's a decision to make. Should I knock this ignorant cyclist off his bike, blast my horn so that he is in no doubt about my displeasure, or slow down further so that the tailback that's built up between the rugby ground and the roundabout becomes longer still?"

Care to read on?


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## Theseus (6 Jan 2012)

Not particularly. Same old, same old.


Why do motorists refuse to use Motorways?


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Jan 2012)

And this is why I don't listen to local radio - failed DJs taking out their frustration on their 4 listeners, interspersed with adverts for webuyanycar.


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## Crackle (6 Jan 2012)

.com


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## Baggy (6 Jan 2012)

People have been moaning on about that section of path for over 6 years now. All articles like his do is strengthen my resolve to ride down that particular section of (not particularly narrow) road as opposed to using the path (which has about 15 conflict points along it).

At least he got a bit of a kicking in the comments section, which makes a nice change.


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## Hip Priest (6 Jan 2012)

A dwad, a dosser and a dalendless shid.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

Local radio - just say NO.


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## dawesome (6 Jan 2012)

Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter, is getting a kicking in the comments. What would you do if you were at a dinner party or down a pub and you met someone who made a similar argument?


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## MissTillyFlop (6 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter, is getting a kicking in the comments. What would you do if you were at a dinner party or down a pub and you met someone who made a similar argument?


Throw stuff.


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## Theseus (6 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> What would you do if you were at a dinner party or down a pub and you met someone who made a similar argument?


 
Ignore them and talk to someone else.


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter, is getting a kicking in the comments.


Rarely are the responses in the E&E so one-sided. Maybe there's hope yet.


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## Paul_L (6 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter, is getting a kicking in the comments. What would you do if you were at a dinner party or down a pub and you met someone who made a similar argument?


 
punch him in the face and then say "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter, is getting a kicking in the comments. What would you do if you were at a dinner party or down a pub and you met someone who made a similar argument?


 Shag-him with a rag-man's trumpet, flared end first ....


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

Paul_L said:


> punch him in the face and then say "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"


 Class!


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Rarely are the responses in the E&E so one-sided. Maybe there's hope yet.


 It's about as interesting as the E&E gets though .... (Exeter born and bred, me).


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## dawesome (6 Jan 2012)

Paul_L said:


> punch him in the face and then say "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"


 

Quality.


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## Little yellow Brompton (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Paul Nero, the Managing Director of Exeter FM:
> 
> "SO I'm driving through the ridiculous 20 mile-an-hour system that's been designed to stop people going to Topsham when there's a decision to make. Should I knock this ignorant cyclist off his bike, blast my horn so that he is in no doubt about my displeasure, or slow down further so that the tailback that's built up between the rugby ground and the roundabout becomes longer still?"
> 
> Care to read on?


He has succeded in his aim, I had never heard of Exeter FM until this evening.


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## TheDoctor (6 Jan 2012)

I'd barely heard of Exeter, to be honest...


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

TheDoctor said:


> I'd barely heard of Exeter, to be honest...


 ... and we like it that way ....


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## dawesome (6 Jan 2012)

I do like this quote, never seen it before:


Get a bike Mr Nero. Take heart From the Reverend Maltie:

"_If I were not a man, I would like to be a bird. As I am a man, I do the next best thing, and ride a bicycle."_


Join your colleague Mark and feel the love.”​​


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## jonny jeez (6 Jan 2012)

I couldn't resist...I added a comment.

Now I just need to move to Exeter.


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## 400bhp (6 Jan 2012)

I liked this comment:



> It seems Alan Partridge has moved from Norwich to Exeter FM. Aha!


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## Rural halfwit (6 Jan 2012)

Nero bills himself as a Copywriter, communications consultant, broadcaster and author.
seems his Bio missed out his ability to spout brown trouser water of the finest quality.


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## dawesome (6 Jan 2012)

Monkey tennis! Youth Hostelling with Chris Eubank!


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Well, I decided to write to the county councillor who takes a great interest in promoting Devon and Exeter as a cycling-friendly city. Oh, and I seem to have copied in the new editor of the Express and Echo and Mr Nero himself.



> Dear Councillor Hughes,
> 
> The following article might have been brought to your attention:
> http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/riders-refuse-use-cycle-paths/story-14333677-detail/story.html
> ...


 
I'll keep you a breast. No, sorry, I'll keep you abreast.


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## Baggy (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Well, I decided to write to the county councillor who takes a great interest in promoting Devon and Exeter as a cycling-friendly city. Oh, and I seem to have copied in the new editor of the Express and Echo and Mr Nero himself.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll keep you a breast. No, sorry, I'll keep you abreast.


Marvellous!
Having now though a bit more about that section of path and the 20mph zone for a moment...the bike path finishes at the point where the 20mph part starts, so Mr. ZNero really is talking out of his bumcakes.


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## HovR (6 Jan 2012)

This made me laugh out loud: 



> As a responsible citizen I slow down. I fume. And I add fumes. Slow-moving traffic wastes fuel and adds to carbon emissions. Idiots who ignore cycle paths should appreciate that future generations of children will drown as global warming wipes out Lympstone. And it's their fault.


 
Yes, it's the cyclists fault for the carbon emissions his car is producing. He can just keep on telling himself that.


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## Ian H (6 Jan 2012)

I shall be having breakfast with him next week. Should I broach the subject?


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## Baggy (6 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> I shall be having breakfast with him next week. Should I broach the subject?


Surely it would be rude not to?


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Wow. A late night and 'shocked' response from the main man at Devon County Council. He said he probably wouldn't respond directly to such 'literary tripe' (better for reactions to come from the general cycling and non-cycling public), but that he would 'invite' the E&E to run a positive article on all the cycling achievements in Devon - it really is a good story (Coast to Coast, Tour of Britain, major investment in lots of good cycle infrastructure, etc.) that is worth trumpeting.


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## dawesome (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Wow. A late night and 'shocked' response from the main man at Devon County Council. He said he probably wouldn't respond directly to such 'literary tripe' (better for reactions to come from the general cycling and non-cycling public), but that he would 'invite' the E&E to run a positive article on all the cycling achievements in Devon - it really is a good story (Coast to Coast, Tour of Britain, major investment in lots of good cycle infrastructure, etc.) that is worth trumpeting.


 

Norwich Evening News reported the Tour brought £2m to our region!


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## Ian H (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Wow. A late night and 'shocked' response from the main man at Devon County Council. He said he probably wouldn't respond directly to such 'literary tripe' (better for reactions to come from the general cycling and non-cycling public), but that he would 'invite' the E&E to run a positive article on all the cycling achievements in Devon - it really is a good story (Coast to Coast, Tour of Britain, major investment in lots of good cycle infrastructure, etc.) that is worth trumpeting.


I can't see that. Is it ZS?
IanH [Exeter Wheelers]


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Baggy said:


> Having now though a bit more about that section of path and the 20mph zone for a moment...the bike path finishes at the point where the 20mph part starts, so Mr. ZNero really is talking out of his bumcakes.


Quite so. Topsham is one of those places which just hasn't got enough space for any meaningful segregation, and most sensible human beings just accept it - there's a mixture of pedestrians, cyclists, cars, buses and lorries in close proximity, and if everyone is sensible there's no problem. That's the easy and civilised solution - not bullying one or more groups of users of the space out of the way, which would appear to be Mr. Nero's intent.


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> I can't see that. Is it ZS?
> IanH [Exeter Wheelers]


Hi Ian. ZS? The response from Stuart Hughes was in an email to me in response to mine to him.


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## paddy01 (6 Jan 2012)

Saw this earlier and refrained from commenting as I presumed it was so outrageous it had to be a pathetic attempt at a wind up to promote Exeter FM.

My commute, on the odd occasion I do it by bike (must try harder this year), is Exmouth to the center of Exeter. I've timed it and given that I'm not exactly a quick rider I've done it plenty of times faster than I could have done it in the car under similar traffic / weather conditions. Not a bit of it would be on the cycle paths (stick to the A376) and I only ever got slowed down having to filter past cars.

Nice ride though, the Exe trail between Topsham / Exmouth, it features on most of my rides but it's definitely bimble territory, especially outside of winter months. Good picnic spot at Darts farm too.


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## Ian H (6 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Hi Ian. ZS? The response from Stuart Hughes was in an email to me in response to mine to him.


Okay. I assumed you meant a public response. Zsolt is Devon County Council - cycling or sustainable transport or something.


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

paddy01 said:


> Saw this earlier and refrained from commenting as I presumed it was so outrageous it had to be a pathetic attempt at a wind up to promote Exeter FM.


Hmm, yes, but sometimes something is so outrageous that you can't not respond. (I just have.) In any case, I can't see him gaining one extra listener from his effort. And he might lose some friends. And to those that say that there is no such thing as bad publicity, I'll say one thing: Gerald Ratner. That gaffe cost him £500m. I hope that Mr Nero finds that there is a cost.



> My commute, on the odd occasion I do it by bike (must try harder this year), is Exmouth to the center of Exeter. I've timed it and given that I'm not exactly a quick rider I've done it plenty of times faster than I could have done it in the car under similar traffic / weather conditions. Not a bit of it would be on the cycle paths (stick to the A376) and I only ever got slowed down having to filter past cars.


I'd say that nine times out of ten it's quicker for me to cycle than to drive from Topsham to Exeter, on the main road, and mostly without silly drivers. At rush hour, I'd say that my cycling time is about half of what it would take in the car.



> Nice ride though, the Exe trail between Topsham / Exmouth, it features on most of my rides but it's definitely bimble territory, especially outside of winter months. Good picnic spot at Darts farm too.


Yes, indeed. Actually, that's one of the few cycle tracks I use, and is a cracking advert for what DCC has done and how a cycle track should work. With the new bridge at Topsham I can see it becoming even more popular with leisure cyclists, and the track being used for hundreds of thousand of trips a year.


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> Okay. I assumed you meant a public response. Zsolt is Devon County Council - cycling or sustainable transport or something.


Aha. Useful to know - I don't think I've ridden into Zsolt yet on a club ride.


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## rusky (6 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> I shall be having breakfast with him next week. Should I broach the subject?


 
Will you be wearing full lycra kit??


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## Ian H (6 Jan 2012)

rusky said:


> Will you be wearing full lycra kit??


It's tempting, though for journeys of that length (it's only around 7 miles) I'd usually just use the folder and wear civvies.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> I shall be having breakfast with him next week. Should I broach the subject?


 I'll send you my rag-man's trumpet ....


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jan 2012)

paddy01 said:


> Nice ride though, the Exe trail between Topsham / Exmouth, it features on most of my rides but it's definitely bimble territory, especially outside of winter months. Good picnic spot at Darts farm too.


 
I'd never get past 'The Bridge Inn'.


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## briantrumpet (6 Jan 2012)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'd never get past 'The Bridge Inn'.


Ah, one of my major claims to fame is that I'm allowed to drink in the inner sanctum behind the bar. Best pub in the world. It's still the only pub the Queen has been in: she dropped in when she was cycling from Exeter to Lympstone in 1999. I think she was cycling, anyway. If she didn't she should have. Would have been quicker.


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## Ste T. (6 Jan 2012)

Prrrrrrricck!


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## lukesdad (6 Jan 2012)

Ste T. said:


> Prrrrrrricck!


Anyone in particular ?


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## Fab Foodie (7 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Ah, one of my major claims to fame is that* I'm allowed to drink in the inner sanctum* behind the bar. Best pub in the world. It's still the only pub the Queen has been in: she dropped in when she was cycling from Exeter to Lympstone in 1999. I think she was cycling, anyway. If she didn't she should have. Would have been quicker.


 Blimey, you are most honoured!
Quite why the Queen was cycling from Lympstone to Exeter mind is anyones guess?


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## downfader (7 Jan 2012)

One of the comments said to comment directly to the FM facebook page, so I have put in my tuppence there (since I have an account):
http://www.facebook.com/exeterfm


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## briantrumpet (7 Jan 2012)

Fab Foodie said:


> Quite why the Queen was cycling from Lympstone to Exeter mind is anyones guess?


Sorry, I made that bit up for humorous effect. See, just like Mr Nero was trying to gain attention, though I didn't think threats of grievous bodily harm were the way to go. Anyway, her visit is documented here.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Jan 2012)

I have posted a website on carp cycle paths and also a link to the Hembrow blog on Dutch cycle infrastructure on the FB site.


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## rusky (7 Jan 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I have posted a website on _*carp*_ cycle paths and also a link to the Hembrow blog on Dutch cycle infrastructure on the FB site.


Sounds a bit fishy to me


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## ComedyPilot (7 Jan 2012)

rusky said:


> Sounds a bit fishy to me


Better than writing crap..........ooops, just did.


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## Red Light (7 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Wow. A late night and 'shocked' response from the main man at Devon County Council. He said he probably wouldn't respond directly to such 'literary tripe' (better for reactions to come from the general cycling and non-cycling public), but that he would 'invite' the E&E to run a positive article on all the cycling achievements in Devon - it really is a good story (Coast to Coast, Tour of Britain, major investment in lots of good cycle infrastructure, etc.) that is worth trumpeting.


 
The problem is pieces like the original tend to go national virally. The response tends to go nowhere. Net result, everyone still gets the impression Exeter is not a welcoming place for cyclists. What is needed is some reaction stronger than the original that will go viral itself.


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## Red Light (7 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> I shall be having breakfast with him next week. Should I broach the subject?


 
Definitely.


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## Archie_tect (7 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> And this is why I don't listen to local radio - failed DJs taking out their frustration on their 4 listeners, interspersed with adverts for webuyanycar.


 
If he hadn't managed to get it in print on a blog it wouldn't have been noticed at all.


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## Ian H (7 Jan 2012)

Archie_tect said:


> If he hadn't managed to get it in print on a blog it wouldn't have been noticed at all.


The original is a guest column in the Exeter Express & Echo newspaper. It's automatically copied to the website. He will have been invited to contribute.


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## CopperCyclist (7 Jan 2012)

I don't know the road in question, so take back this point if the entire stretch is an uphill...

...but is anyone wondering who the cyclist clad in lycra are that are 'holding him up' on a 20mph limit road? I don't have the balls to wear lycra yet, but he'd actually be more likely to be holding ME up slightly if he kept to the speed limit!


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## ufkacbln (7 Jan 2012)

Fab Foodie said:


> Blimey, you are most honoured!
> Quite why the Queen was cycling from Lympstone to Exeter mind is anyones guess?


 
Was Prince Phillip was riding Shotgun (literally) looking for wayward Exeter FM employees trying to knock her off her bike?


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## Archie_tect (7 Jan 2012)

If a non-cyclist ever looked at Cycle Chat they'd think many posts are the ravings of 'cychopaths'...


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## Archie_tect (7 Jan 2012)

The name alone is perfect.


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## ComedyPilot (7 Jan 2012)

1671206 said:


> And they wouldn't be wrong. Much the same on any interest group forum. Anyone looked at Pistonheads recently, by way of a random example.


I would like to think we are reasonably balanced here?

If someone came on with a video of them RLJ'ing, riding with no lights on the pavement, we would all (rightly) turn on them.

I can't think of a time when irresponsible cycling has been supported here, yet on a daily basis all over the country, careless and dangerous driving is excused - all because we don't pay road tax?


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## Noodley (7 Jan 2012)

I hope the nobber loses his job, and has to get rid of his car and walk to sign on...then gets smacked in the head by a passing cyclist.


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## Noodley (7 Jan 2012)

Repeatedly


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## ComedyPilot (7 Jan 2012)

The Exeter FM FB page has closed the debate on there and redirected it to the paper.

Still, the MD needs to explain himself, and the FB page is the place to do it IMO.


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Jan 2012)

You know. We could all get angry. But as it is, this man is fat, ugly, probably has a tiny flap where his willy should be and manages a radio station that no-one listens to. As well having a lower IQ than a brick.

I think he's suffered enough, don't you?


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## BrumJim (7 Jan 2012)

No.


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## paddy01 (7 Jan 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> You know. We could all get angry. But as it is, this man is fat, ugly, probably has a tiny flap where his willy should be and manages a radio station that no-one listens to. As well having a lower IQ than a brick.
> 
> I think he's suffered enough, don't you?


 
I think that's a little unfair.

To bricks.


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## TheDoctor (7 Jan 2012)

To be fair to the bloke, I'd probably get tired of punching him after a quarter-hour or so...


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## ComedyPilot (7 Jan 2012)

Strange, no answer from the great Mr Nero?


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## Baggy (7 Jan 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> I don't know the road in question, so take back this point if the entire stretch is an uphill...
> 
> ...but is anyone wondering who the cyclist clad in lycra are that are 'holding him up' on a 20mph limit road? I don't have the balls to wear lycra yet, but he'd actually be more likely to be holding ME up slightly if he kept to the speed limit!


It's not uphill, and the 20mph zone doesn't actually have a cycle path through it....


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## benborp (7 Jan 2012)

This is probably pertinent (though barely anyone seems to bear it any thought round my neck of the woods):

*Highway Code*


> *Driving in built-up areas*
> 
> *152*
> 
> ...


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## 400bhp (7 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Wow. A late night and 'shocked' response from the main man at Devon County Council. He said he probably wouldn't respond directly to such *'literary tripe'* (better for reactions to come from the general cycling and non-cycling public), but that he would 'invite' the E&E to run a positive article on all the cycling achievements in Devon - it really is a good story (Coast to Coast, Tour of Britain, major investment in lots of good cycle infrastructure, etc.) that is worth trumpeting.


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## 400bhp (7 Jan 2012)

For peoples' info.

From a quick internet search, the writer of this literary tripe appears to be a part owner of Exeter FM.

Let's be careful not to give him any free coverage.


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## 400bhp (7 Jan 2012)

I wonder if Mr Nero will go the same way as his namesake?

Here's hoping


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## TheDoctor (7 Jan 2012)

400bhp said:


> I wonder if Mr Nero will go the same way as his namesake?
> 
> Here's hoping


Are you suggesting we set Exeter on fire?
That _might_ look like over-reacting.


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## 400bhp (7 Jan 2012)

He may well have already tried.


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## dawesome (7 Jan 2012)

Wouldn't an equivalent diatribe from a militant cyclist be along the lines of:

_"Drivers. If you overtake me at more than the speed limit I will hunt you down and shoot you in the face"? _

I can't see that kind of sentiment getting much support here.


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## paddy01 (7 Jan 2012)

TheDoctor said:


> Are you suggesting we set Exeter on fire?
> That _might_ look like over-reacting.


 
Well, being in Devon it's probably too soggy to burn anyway, and fire lighters are hard to find in the shops at this time of year...


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## MissTillyFlop (7 Jan 2012)

400bhp said:


> I wonder if Mr Nero will go the same way as his namesake?
> 
> Here's hoping



If it's all the same to you, I don't want to think about Mr Nero "fiddling" if it's all the same to you ...


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## dawesome (7 Jan 2012)

Paul Nero is an anagram of "A Loner Up?" Coincidence!!????

Probably, I dunno.


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## cyberknight (7 Jan 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> I don't know the road in question, so take back this point if the entire stretch is an uphill...
> 
> ...but is anyone wondering who the cyclist clad in lycra are that are 'holding him up' on a 20mph limit road? I don't have the balls to wear lycra yet, but he'd actually be more likely to be holding ME up slightly if he kept to the speed limit!


 
+1
on a rare moment of pure physical power i was in the draft zone of a car actually doing 30 in a 30 zone so i got a tow for a good 2-3 miles untill we hit a mountain slight hill  The look on the drivers face in the mirror was priceless as they kept looking behind and thinking WTF !

What can you say about the article in the OP `s post?Sensationalist journalism on a slow news night by a reporter who did not bother the actually check the facts .....nothing new then .


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

Tonight's development - a personal email from Paul Nero - not an apology as such, but saying that the E&E are going to do a balancing piece featuring a cycling charity, the suggestion of a piece on Radio Exe featuring the DCC councillor and the cycling charity, recognition of some of the problems with cycle paths, the possibility of his going on a course (Sustrans?) about how drivers and cyclists can safely share road space ....

Anyway, I have just asked him if I can quote his email in full. Watch this space.


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## Little yellow Brompton (8 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Tonight's development - a personal email from Paul Nero - not an apology as such, but saying that the E&E are going to do a balancing piece featuring a cycling charity, the suggestion of a piece on Radio Exe featuring the DCC councillor and the cycling charity, recognition of some of the problems with cycle paths, the possibility of his going on a course (Sustrans?) about how drivers and cyclists can safely share road space ....
> 
> Anyway, I have just asked him if I can quote his email in full. Watch this space.


 

His piece worked then, he got publicity then and he gets more later... :-(


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> His piece worked then, he got publicity then and he gets more later... :-(


Maybe, but it's not going to make him look big and important like the image his original piece tried to convey. He's done himself no favours. And all self-inflicted. I'm sure his publicity calculation didn't include the near universal criticism he's rightly got.


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## Little yellow Brompton (8 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Maybe, but it's not going to make him look big and important like the image his original piece tried to convey. He's done himself no favours. And all self-inflicted. I'm sure his publicity calculation didn't include the near universal criticism he's rightly got.


 Do you work in the media business? If not, I suggest that you are about to get blindsided , by professionals, and simply used to get him/his concern more publicity. He will be controlling what is heard/seen not you,and he gets to decide how his employees refer to the balance peice once it has been used. His business is selling adverts by giving away "news" .News is news. if it's good or bad makes no difference to him as long as people read/liste.nWhat the "balance piece " gives him is free copy/progamming, you can't fight him on his own battleground, your only real method is asymetrical warfare. , if you want to hurt him you want to try levering from directions that cost him money, his sponsors/advertisers/shareholders see if they like being associated with him if it's costing them bad publicity or money.What car does he drive, do the local dealers of that car want his driving style associated with their product, what advertisers surrounded his piece , do they want their name scaring off cyclsits....? 

The media is not a two edged sword, it's a sword shaped like a serpent and will turn and bite you.


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

Email no.1


Paul Nero said:


> I think the Echo is going to do a balancing piece next week from a cycling charity. When you [Councillor Hughes] come in on Tuesday, perhaps we could talk about whether it's sensible to do a programme feature on this - with the charity and maybe you taking part? I too hope the cyclists shouldn't feel threatened by drivers - which is why the cycle paths are such an asset. The Tour of Britain was indeed a pleasure to watch and was well organised - one would hope that event together with the cycle paths promote cycling. Today on the old bridge at Topsham a pedestrian was walking on the road round the bend, rather than choosing the new bridge. There's no compulsion to use the new bridge - but it does seem such a waste, and a risk.
> Mr Moore - the idea of going on some kind of course to do something on how motorists and cyclists and co-exist is a good one. I'll discuss with Sustrans. I'm a cyclist as well as a motorist and a pedestrian, and understand the issues of using cycles paths that are shared with pedestrians - or, as today near the Devon Motel, have a car parked on them, which doesn't help anyone. Where I'm wobbly is cycling on the road. I certainly wouldn't want to bully anyone; always slow down - and, as a clean driving licence will attest, never knowingly break the speed limit - including the 20 mph zone through Topsham. The point, arguably injudiciously expressed, is that it should be reasonable to expect cyclists to use the cycle paths. As the Highway Code say, it's the safer option, if not not compulsory. It does mean that cyclists may have to slow down for other people on the track - just as motorists do for other people on the road.


Email no.2


Paul Nero said:


> I'd be concerned if anti-cyclist bullying was generated by the piece, and I wouldn't expect that to be the case - there is a "slow down" is the reasonable thing to do message in there - but I appreciate that it's not the major gist. The theme that's emerging is that there are two types of cyclist - some for whom cycle paths may not be the sensible option. As most people don't fall into that category, the issues are not necessarily understood. We do have airtime to explore both sides of the argument - but you're right, this was a polemical first-person piece that didn't set out to do that. I'm seeing Councillor Hughes this week and will see if we can put a programme together.


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## rusky (8 Jan 2012)

You're cllr Hughes??


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

rusky said:


> You're cllr Hughes??


No, I'm the other one addressed ("Mr Moore"). There are several people on the case, including Councillor Hughes, IanH and me.


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## MrHappyCyclist (8 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Email no.1
> Email no.2


It is interesting to read these emails and then go back and read the original article again. So much back-pedalling I've rarely seen.


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

I


Fab Foodie said:


> I'd never get past 'The Bridge Inn'.


 rarely do either 

If I ever do get further and I have my ID card with me than I certinally don't get further than the Sergeants Mess at CTC


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> It is interesting to read these emails and then go back and read the original article again. So much back-pedalling I've rarely seen.


Quite so. 'Squirming' might be another word. All that's missing is an actual apology for being a prize prat. My remaining arguments with him would be about his contention that is piece wasn't likely to encourage anti-cyclist bullying (when that seemed to be one of its primary purposes), and that it is 'arguable' that is opinions were injudiciously expressed.


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet: You'll find Stuart Hughes to be a decent bloke and passionate about Devon being a cycle friendly county. I have had may dealings with him over the years from my time as a journalist right through to know through my cycling endeavours. He was posection of (not particularly narrow) road as opposed to using the path (which has about 15 conflict points along it). possibly the most instrumental person (along with the cycling officers at DCC) in bringing the Tour of Britain and the Tour Series to Devon and bringing it back every time.
He may be elected under a tory banner these days (I remember a time when he was the representative for the Monster Raving Loony Party!) but he is a true independent and really cares about the people of this county.

As for Mr Nero stating there will be an 'article to bring balance' to the piece. There should have never been a need to bring balance in the first place because the Express and Echo should not have printed it (Mark Astley's last huzzah before leaving perhaps?). The Echo know this is a contentious issue, they only need look at the James Martin fiasco to know that. But then perhaps that was their intention seeing as the paper is struggling to survive!

It's laughable for him to say that he never intended to encourage people to go out there and injure cyclists. Perhaps he should think before he writes, it's commonly accepted in criminal science circles that known figures in the media can say or do something that validates a psychopaths actions, they see or read something and think that validates their actions. Ok I'm not saying all motorists are psychopaths, far from it, the majority are decent people just getting through life like any cyclist. But there are motorists out there who will take his words as some kind of validation of their actions behind the wheel!


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## Dayvo (8 Jan 2012)

Perhaps he should take his bike to the playground and practice a bit more without stabilisers before he ventures out onto the road.

_*'I'm a cyclist* as well as a motorist and a pedestrian blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah. *Where I'm wobbly is cycling on the road*.'_

Sounds more like a chav on a bike.


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## briantrumpet (8 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> briantrumpet: You'll find Stuart Hughes to be a decent bloke and passionate about Devon being a cycle friendly county.


Indeed - his responses have been quick and somewhat less tempered than mine, and though I haven't met him, I can tell that he really does care about cycling in Devon. Not everything that gets done is perfect, but I'm sure that Stuart Hughes can take considerable credit for getting positive things done in a climate that is not necessarily the best for spending money on 'non-essential' projects. This is at a time when even libraries and some children's services have faced savage cuts.

I am sure what Stuart Hughes will be wanting to reinforce is that Devon is truly one of the great places in the England to cycle, and that car and cycle can share our roads safely and happily (and do, most of the time.) Paul Nero's piece was a silly, irresponsible piece of tosh, which the Express and Echo should have returned to him and asked him "are you sure you want to say this??"


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Indeed - his responses have been quick and somewhat less tempered than mine, and though I haven't met him, I can tell that he really does care about cycling in Devon. Not everything that gets done is perfect, but I'm sure that Stuart Hughes can take considerable credit for getting positive things done in a climate that is not necessarily the best for spending money on 'non-essential' projects. This is at a time when even libraries and some children's services have faced savage cuts.
> 
> I am sure what Stuart Hughes will be wanting to reinforce is that Devon is truly one of the great places in the England to cycle, and that car and cycle can share our roads safely and happily (and do, most of the time.) Paul Nero's piece was a silly, irresponsible piece of tosh, which the Express and Echo should have returned to him and asked him "are you sure you want to say this??"


 
We all know that it can never be perfect, but Stuart has over the years done his best to get it as near as dammit and has pushed the environment department at DCC to do the best job possible and put Devon on the map. He may not be a hardened cyclist himself, but he's certainly a hardened cyclist supporter.


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## stowie (8 Jan 2012)

Dayvo said:


> Perhaps he should take his bike to the playground and practice a bit more without stabilisers before he ventures out onto the road.
> 
> _*'I'm a cyclist* as well as a motorist and a pedestrian blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah. *Where I'm wobbly is cycling on the road*.'_
> 
> Sounds more like a chav on a bike.


 

With the amount of back-pedalling he appears to be doing, I assumed he rode a fixie...


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## ufkacbln (8 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> I
> 
> rarely do either
> 
> If I ever do get further and I have my ID card with me than I certinally don't get further than the Sergeants Mess at CTC


 
Evil place!


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## Ian H (8 Jan 2012)

Looking good. Thanks, Brian, for all the behind-the-scenes work. I shall merely introduce myself on Wednesday.
From comments above it strikes me that an effective response to the EE&E might be to threaten not to buy their rag if such irresponsible opinion pieces are published.


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## welshwheels (8 Jan 2012)

To answer the question they do not go where i want to go !!!!and a lot of the cycle paths in this area go through/alongside some terrible council estates and are covered in glass and dog sh*t


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> Evil place!


 
There have been few times when I have walked out of the mess...especially with their bar prices


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

On a serious note, I have also been in contact with Cllr Hughes who has been swift in his response to me. He is looking into the issue as already mentioned.

I have also conacted one of the Exeter City Councillors who is a member of Sustrans (as well as volunteer) to make her aware of it if she wasn't already, awaiting a response at the moment.


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## ufkacbln (8 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> There have been few times when I have walked out of the mess...especially with their bar prices


 
If you walked out then things have changed.

We used to x-ray all the new entries and then spend the night before proceeding up to Portland to do the operational ships.


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## Wafu (8 Jan 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> If you walked out then things have changed.
> 
> We used to x-ray all the new entries and then spend the night before proceeding up to Portland to do the operational ships.


 
ahhhh now I said there are only a few times I have walked out....I have however been in the mess bar many times 

Been in the officers mess a fair few times (along with the wardroom at BRNC)....never walked out of that place


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## lukesdad (8 Jan 2012)

welshwheels said:


> To answer the question they do not go where i want to go !!!!and a lot of the cycle paths in this area go through/alongside some terrible council estates and are covered in glass and dog sh*t


 I often use the path down from Tumble and find it fine. Also the coast and Blackpill path and don t find it to problematic.


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## cyberknight (9 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Email no.1
> 
> Email no.2



Seems he had been caught out and is trying to cover his arse without actually apologizing or retracting his original piece , untill he does that no amount of red tape will hide the fact that his condoned irresponsible ,dangerous and illegal driving and that should be in my opinion the only way for this shock jock to make amends.


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## RhythMick (9 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> On a serious note, I have also been in contact with Cllr Hughes who has been swift in his response to me. He is looking into the issue as already mentioned.
> 
> I have also conacted one of the Exeter City Councillors who is a member of Sustrans (as well as volunteer) to make her aware of it if she wasn't already, awaiting a response at the moment.



@ Brian and Wafu : well done for finding a civilized and productive way to react to this idiocy

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## BentMikey (9 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> I often use the path down from Tumble and find it fine. Also the coast and Blackpill path and don t find it to problematic.


 
Yes, you stick to the gutter, and off in the cycle Bantustan where you belong, peasant. Stay out of the way of real road users. :P


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## welshwheels (9 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> I often use the path down from Tumble and find it fine. Also the coast and Blackpill path and don t find it to problematic.


coastal path is ok but i have seen a lot of broken bottles on the one down from tumble might be that i usually ride on a sunday morning ???local yoofs smashing bottles of mad dog 20/20 while trying to pull a bird !!and wondering if you can get someone pregnant through 2 pairs of jeans


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## 2Loose (9 Jan 2012)

Not a single person pointed out that all of the cyclists must take a holiday or use the paths when the schools break up, as the traffic is so much more free flowing at those times...it is the only time I am not held up by cars in the entire year. What a prat.


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## briantrumpet (10 Jan 2012)

Latest update from Paul Nero:



> We're going to do a programme on the issue - probably Saturday 18 February at 4pm. It's a little while away yet, but seems the earliest date that Sustrans, Stuart Hughes and I can all do. So it's still to be confirmed. I expect we'll have a lot of content, but may we use some of the words from your email to highlight points? I'm probably going to try a bit of main road cycling with Sustrans too - not something I'd normally attempt.


And I replied:


> Unfortunately articles like yours are all too likely to give ignorant motorists the sort of justification for the type of bullying that most road cyclists experience from time to time (even if that was not your intention), and which only helps to further polarise cyclists' and motorists' attitudes to each other. And that's a shame, because most motorists and cyclists ARE considerate. If you didn't think that your article would have the effect it has had, I think your judgement was flawed, I'm afraid.
> 
> I hope you won't find your road cycling too traumatic - and even learn to enjoy it. Last year I rode somewhat over 9000 miles, mostly on Devon roads, and loved nearly every minute of it (the few unpleasant moments being when meeting inconsiderate or unobservant drivers). I use my bike as a fast form of transport into Exeter (I average about 20mph, and often go at about 30mph towards Topsham: faster than the car, or train, for the places I want to get to), and for exercise/leisure. The cycle paths certainly are a superb resource for those who are either too nervous, or vulnerable on the road - you've only got to see the numbers using the route all the way from Exmouth, and along the sensibly-done BITS of Topsham Road to see what a difference they make. But for others, the road is the least worst place to be - and, at the end of the day, I do have not only a right to be there, but that is exactly where Government advice says I should be.
> 
> ...


BTW - the original article has now passed the 100-mark for replies. If it was designed to stir up controversy, it has succeeded. I still think that some good might come out of this. And I don't think Mr Nero has more friends now than he did a week ago.


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## briantrumpet (10 Jan 2012)

Paul Nero said:


> Yes, I agree with all of that (again). I expected a 50:50 split, but the world of forums means that groups can mobilise opinion faster. I'm a long-distance walker and face similar issues of (a small proportion) of motorists not allowing space or time. What I hope we have here is an opportunity to explain the issues, which we'll try to do sensibly on air next month. I drove through the 20mph zone in Topsham this morning at about 6am and was overtaken by two impatient cars. The issue of whether cycle paths should be used by all cyclists where they're provided is one worthy of debate - even if the outcome is 'actually, no, for these reasons'...With Stuart Hughes there, we can also explore why as both a cyclist and a decision-maker, it's hard to put in a cycle path that meets the needs of all cyclists. That's what we can set out to discuss in the programme next month. If you'd like to contribute, we can record a short piece. Whatever you decide, your points are soberly noted.


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## Wafu (10 Jan 2012)

Out of interest I took a ride out in on the cycle paths in Exeter today (I am normally a road user myself)

in my journey from Exwick to Topsham and back on the cycle paths I encountered a number of problems


Badly surfaced path at Flowerpot fields. The path was eroding to the point of pot holes which cyclists have to avoid so they aren't felled.
the stretch along the river exe towards the quay still littered with flood debris making it difficult passage for cyclists and walkers.
A woman walking her dog on an extendable lead. She was on the pedestrian side of the path the dog was on the other side of the cycle path with his lead acting like a trip wire. The woman became abusive when I slowed down and politely said 'excuse me'
Pedestrians walking on the cycle path with unleashed dogs running around the place. snotty comments made when I slowed down, rang my bell and politely said 'excuse me'
Section of cycle path between the clapper bridge and double locks path currently (and still!) closed. The road leading to the double looks looks as though the local Marines have been practising grenade throwing on it. Not good for cars or bikes.
Topsham Road cycle path to the University of Exeter Sports ground. littered with road debris and glass. Only got as far as the UofE ground because another patch of glass caused a puncture!. (glad I had a spare inner tube on me)
Decided to cycle back home by road....no problems!


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## Baggy (10 Jan 2012)

RhythMick said:


> @ Brian and Wafu : well done for finding a civilized and productive way to react to this idiocy


Indeed - thanks for being proactive!


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## lukesdad (10 Jan 2012)

welshwheels said:


> coastal path is ok but i have seen a lot of broken bottles on the one down from tumble might be that i usually ride on a sunday morning ???local yoofs smashing bottles of mad dog 20/20 while trying to pull a bird !!and wondering if you can get someone pregnant through 2 pairs of jeans


 Mmm saw some of th latter on the coastal path 2nite..... I think !


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## lukesdad (10 Jan 2012)

BentMikey said:


> Yes, you stick to the gutter, and off in the cycle Bantustan where you belong, peasant. Stay out of the way of real road users. :P


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## paddy01 (10 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> Out of interest I took a ride out in on the cycle paths in Exeter today (I am normally a road user myself)
> 
> in my journey from Exwick to Topsham and back on the cycle paths I encountered a number of problems
> 
> ...


 
Must admit I don't use the bits after Topsham. On my commute I use the cycle paths (Exe Trail) from Exmouth, through Lympstone, Exton to Darts Farm then once I'm across the new bridge by the Bridge Inn I stick to the road until I drop down from Countess Wier roundabout to the swing bridge and pick up the path at the canal.

Could be the times I use it but I tend to only come across other commuters / joggers, and it was stunning riding along there just after 7am this morning in the stillness of the moonlight with a light mist rolling across the water.


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## Wafu (10 Jan 2012)

paddy01 said:


> Must admit I don't use the bits after Topsham. On my commute I use the cycle paths (Exe Trail) from Exmouth, through Lympstone, Exton to Darts Farm then once I'm across the new bridge by the Bridge Inn I stick to the road until I drop down from Countess Wier roundabout to the swing bridge and pick up the path at the canal.
> 
> Could be the times I use it but I tend to only come across other commuters / joggers, and it was stunning riding along there just after 7am this morning in the stillness of the moonlight with a light mist rolling across the water.


 
Normally I wouldn't take the cycle path along that stretch of Topsham Road, but I decided to just out of interest in the light of the comments made in the Echo.

I certainly won't be using that section of cycle path again and will be sticking to the road....it's safer!


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## Ian H (11 Jan 2012)

Copy/pasted entry from facebook (cos I'm lazy):
Poor fellow. He thought he was safe amongst a group of greying business folk. So I introduced myself as 'chair of Audax UK, long distance cycling in the UK'. Upshot is we had a long chat. He's got a chatshow scheduled with Stuart Hughes and others. He's planning a cycle ride with the Sustrans bloke and wondering whether he can be wired up to comment live as he's riding. His business partner, who is a cyclist, told him he was an idiot. Interesting that EE&E cut his article, removing the bit saying that he cycled.


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## BentMikey (11 Jan 2012)

Nice one!!!!


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## yello (11 Jan 2012)

That last email from Mr Nero is a considered and sensible response - the man's no idiot. That leads me to believe he knew exactly what he was doing with this opinion piece.

Sadly, I think that is the vogue with opinion pieces. Create a reaction (for whatever purpose) knowing full well that one can temper it, or even apologise 'for any offence caused' (i.e. lip service), at a later date. I dunno, perhaps it's a valid tactic to promote debate... perhaps.


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## dawesome (11 Jan 2012)

yello said:


> That last email from Mr Nero is a considered and sensible response - the man's no idiot. That leads me to believe he knew exactly what he was doing with this opinion piece.
> 
> Sadly, I think that is the vogue with opinion pieces. Create a reaction (for whatever purpose) knowing full well that one can temper it, or even apologise 'for any offence caused' (i.e. lip service), at a later date. I dunno, perhaps it's a valid tactic to promote debate... perhaps.


 

maybe, but I hope someone can explain to Mr Nero that his threats are bread and butter to the meat heads who use their vehicles as weapons.


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## Ian H (11 Jan 2012)

He was asked to fill in for a regular columnist at short notice, so perhaps not so considered. Anyway, just had an email from him, so let's see what unfolds.


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## dawesome (11 Jan 2012)

My test of whether a diatribe against cyclists is fair or equitable is to replace the word cyclists with another minority:

_SO I'm driving through the ridiculous 20 mile-an-hour system that's been designed to stop people going to Topsham when there's a decision to make. Should I knock this ignorant black person over, blast my horn so that he is in no doubt about my displeasure, or slow down further so that the tailback that's built up between the rugby ground and the roundabout becomes longer still?_


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## Little yellow Brompton (11 Jan 2012)

dawesome said:


> My test of whether a diatribe against cyclists is fair or equitable is to replace the word cyclists with another minority:
> 
> _SO I'm driving through the ridiculous 20 mile-an-hour system that's been designed to stop people going to Topsham when there's a decision to make. Should I knock this ignorant black person over, blast my horn so that he is in no doubt about my displeasure, or slow down further so that the tailback that's built up between the rugby ground and the roundabout becomes longer still?_


Ahhh ! The "Jew" test!


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## yello (11 Jan 2012)

Ian H said:


> He was asked to fill in for a regular columnist at short notice, so perhaps not so considered.


 
Interesting. Perhaps he panicked because of a deadline and resorted to a formulaic article!


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## Wafu (17 Jan 2012)

Just heard word that Radio Exe (Formerly Exeter FM) are planning an open day at their Exeter offices (no date yet announced), so it may be worth a delegation of cyclists turning up on the day 

Sustrans and Stuart Hughes are positive moves in a way, but I get the feeling those are again about publicity for himself, so perhaps if he sees just some of the number of cyclists in the city turn up on his door step he might just realise that we aren't as much of a minority as he thinks and us cyclists are fed up of being bearing the brunt of idiot drivers.


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## briantrumpet (17 Jan 2012)

Wafu said:


> Just heard word that Radio Exe (Formerly Exeter FM) are planning an open day at their Exeter offices (no date yet announced), so it may be worth a delegation of cyclists turning up on the day
> 
> Sustrans and Stuart Hughes are positive moves in a way, but I get the feeling those are again about publicity for himself, so perhaps if he sees just some of the number of cyclists in the city turn up on his door step he might just realise that we aren't as much of a minority as he thinks and us cyclists are fed up of being bearing the brunt of idiot drivers.


Why not make a bit of a day of it and have a cyclists' picnic somewhere ... maybe in Topsham? Now, how could we get there from Exeter? Meet in the centre of Exeter, cycle out to Marsh Barton, and then down for a pint at The Bridge, maybe.


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## 400bhp (17 Jan 2012)

Make sure you cycle down that ridiculous 20mph road in Topsham.


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## briantrumpet (17 Jan 2012)

400bhp said:


> Make sure you cycle down that ridiculous 20mph road in Topsham.


That was in my mind ... as well as seeing how long it takes to cycle across the bridge - I reckon about two seconds should do it.


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## Wafu (17 Jan 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Why not make a bit of a day of it and have a cyclists' picnic somewhere ... maybe in Topsham? Now, how could we get there from Exeter? Meet in the centre of Exeter, cycle out to Marsh Barton, and then down for a pint at The Bridge, maybe.


 
Sounds like a plan...especially the pub bit 

A central Exeter meet sounds like the best plan, Cathedral Green area perhaps or even down at the Quayside


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## TheSandwichMonster (18 Jan 2012)

Sounds good to me. I like the sound of "pub"!


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