# Bents and Sore Knees



## Cedric (26 Mar 2009)

Hi! Just a quick question that's probably been asked a thousand times (sorry!). Are bents harder or easier on your knees than DFs? 

While I'm at it, can I also ask, is it easier to fall off a two wheeler bent than a DF? Could, for example, a competent upright biker expect to be able to master a bent in reasonable time? What do you do to balance when you stop at junctions, etc.?

Cheers!


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## SmileyBoots (26 Mar 2009)

Hi Cedric,
when I first got a recumbent I used to get sore knees until I realised I was pushing too hard. Because you can push against the back of the seat, you can easily overdo it. Trick is to go to a lower gear and spin (same advice for any type of bike I think.) 
I have put a set of short cranks (160mm) on my Trike which reduces the arc of movement your legs make - this also helps my knees.

I can fall off any bike with two wheels but junctions are not a problem - I just put a foot on the floor. 

Hope this helps


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## banjokat (26 Mar 2009)

Wot SmileyBoots said ...

learning to ride one will feel alien at first, 10 minutes later it'll be OK and within a few weeks it will be second nature.

Approaching junctions etc., get ready to put a foot down in good time as your foot has a bit further to travel.


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## byegad (26 Mar 2009)

Wot they sed!

It's easy to hang on to a big gear and push the knees too hard.


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## squeaker (27 Mar 2009)

Cedric said:


> While I'm at it, can I also ask, is it easier to fall off a two wheeler bent than a DF?


Yes IME, 'cos you can't move your body around much so most balancing is done by steering: just something new. Lack of cycling experience probably helps!


Cedric said:


> What do you do to balance when you stop at junctions, etc.?


Never mind balance (put your feet down, but watch that gravel), how do you see at angled junctions (there's only so much you can do with positioning if you want to go into the nearside lane)? I use a mirror, but I'd be interested in other's solutions.


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## swscotland bentrider (27 Mar 2009)

It took only a few miles to learn to ride o.k. but it took many months before I reached a level of confidence equivalent to riding a DF. In some ways its almost like learning to ride all over again. The advice re knees is sound IMO. I had sore knees to begin with but, as long as you don't overdo it, they settle down as the muscles surrounding them develop.

Junctions are an issue. Some, where visibility is obscured by hedges or whatever, I'll jump off and run across. I find a mirror essential although with experience I have got better at doing a low speed shoulder check.

It may sound daunting but it's worth it!


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## derall (28 Mar 2009)

My learning curve was pretty rapid. Went to Bikefix, asked to try an SMGT. Rode up and down the road a couple of times. Liked it. Ordered one. Collected it the following w/e (the saturday before christmas) rode home from Central London to the Chilterns. 

As for stopping, I learned how _not_ to stop - draw up short of a junction, then edge forward until it's safe to go. I learned to use my ears a lot more when checking for traffic. 

Yes, it's hard on the knees I found, but again it's something to get used to. I don't notice any strain on the knees now.


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## arallsopp (30 Mar 2009)

My tips, and all IMHO:


If there's any chance you might be stopping in the next 10 metres, get in a low gear NOW. If you end up clearing the obstacle, it's little issue to change back, but pulling away in too high a gear is a wobbly and scary exercise. (Bents with hub gears alleviate this issue to some degree).
Commit. If you're on a SWB with wheel/foot overlap, cornering means leaning. Even without the chance of heelstrike, you won't learn to corner correctly if you try to keep a foot near the ground. Pedal to propel. Balance to steer. Bars to correct balance.
Keep cadence higher than feels necessary until you're a good few hundred in. Its too easy to push a high gear without realising that your legs are hurting.
Get clipped in. Not immediately intuitive, I know... For me, the biggest issue when learning recumbent was getting a decent power stroke from the first pedal of a stop light. By having that foot clipped in, you can arrive at the junction in the wrong position, pull the pedal backward until its ready, then push away when the lights change.
Sit up. When starting out it may suit you to sit upright on the seat, ignoring the backrest. This is normally far more stable than laying back, and is ideal to learn. If the seat adjusts, start it off at a high angle, then reduce it.
Don't use a headrest when you're learning. Your body is very good at responding to imbalance by positioning the various parts of itself. Your head weighs a lot and is a long way from the centre of gravity. Mine does micro steering adjustments all the time. If I put it on a rest, I tend to weave quite a bit more.
Go slow. I learnt best by riding to the shops with Mrs arallsopp and the little one (walking). If you can keep your bike upright at ~3mph, you can do pretty much anything. Doing it clipped is scary the first time, but very re-assuring once you've got it.
Avoid hillstarts onto Tjunctions. They're just not fun.

That's all from me. As above, its all IMHO. Experiences vary. Some of my mates can ride my SMGTe without any instruction or assistance. Others can't keep it upright for more than 5 secs.

There are a few other ideas I've heard dotted around, but haven't had the need to use. The best two are probably: 

Start off by rolling down a very gentle hill and getting the feeling for steering and balance without having to pedal. NOT grass though. Bumps are not conducive to staying on.
Wobble the bars deliberately BEFORE you set off. It seems to stop you overcompensating once you're rolling.

I think you'll be fine. Bents are close to the ground, and an unexpected dismount tends to be limited to a bump on the side of the butt, and a lot of embarrassment.

Goodness. Mega post. Sorry.


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## Riding in Circles (30 Mar 2009)

A lot of the knee issues can be alleviated by pedals with free float.


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## byegad (30 Mar 2009)

Two wheels good Three wheels better!


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## Riding in Circles (30 Mar 2009)

byegad said:


> Two wheels good Three wheels better!



I'm sure that's my saying.


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## byegad (31 Mar 2009)

Catrike UK said:


> I'm sure that's my saying.




It should be bleated rather than said. I nicked it from George Orwell's Triker's Farm


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## Riding in Circles (31 Mar 2009)

byegad said:


> It should be bleated rather than said. I nicked it from George Orwell's Triker's Farm



I think I nicked before you, I was saying it 10 years ago. 

It used to be my signature on the newsgroups and that other place.


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## Arch (2 Apr 2009)

User3143 said:


> ...or get a trike <laughs manically>



I was going to say that.....


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## spiro (30 May 2009)

With regard to clipping in Kevin (D-Tek) reckons you should start with flat pedals, then move onto toe clips (easy to get out of) and then finally cleats.


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## arallsopp (30 May 2009)

Never got on with toe clips, as there was no definite 'engaged' or 'disengaged'.
One bad experience with the detailing at the end of a trainer, and I swore off them for life.

At least with cleats you know you're out.

All imho, of course. Horses, courses, cans and worms.


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## itself (9 Nov 2009)

I've most recently been trying some different pedals, SPD and Eggbeaters, but I always seem to gravitate back to the Frog pedals. Great float, and they click in and out very easily. They do have a new redesign for 2010.

Lisa


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## trickletreat (9 Nov 2009)

All recumbents are equal, but some are more equal than others...that will be a trike then. 
OP I have a sore knee at the moment, but can't remember if it started on my mtb while towing daughter. Shortly after bought the trike, and just above right knee hurts. Hoping that as legs get used to pedalling the trike the legs will strengthen and pain will go away...will not leave it too long though.


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## windmiller (9 Nov 2009)

Never had knee pain in my life until I rode a two wheel bent any distance. Though I had to really push it 60 hard miles with gut wrenching hills to induce this. Of course I put this down to using power grips on my two wheeled bents. They worked fine on my DF's and trike.

Apart from using a more suitable method of fixing the foot to the peddle such as SPd's etc, you can spin more, use shorter cranks which help with spinning or as a last resort drastically cut your mileage till the day arrives when your leg muscles catch up with your enthusiasm.


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## ACW (9 Nov 2009)

just passed 1000 miles on my bent and i still get sore knees, no where near as bad, but at least i know that as soon as they start to niggle to ease off, still haven't got used to spinning, just cant do it. feels like my legs are thrashing around to little effect. my question is what defines spinning -100rpm and higher? 120rpm and higher?

Andy


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## byegad (10 Nov 2009)

No ACW the real trick is to ease off the pressure and spin _before_ your knees ache.


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## ACW (10 Nov 2009)

Hi worked that one out fairly early, but just cant help myself from racing the traffic. must try to behave


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## byegad (11 Nov 2009)

It took me a couple of months to relax enough to let the bike find the speed. By that I mean to work as hard as I want to on any particular day and instinctively change gear to keep that cadence and effort steady as the road goes up and down. It probably didn't help that my first bent, an AZUB-4, had 81 gears!

Strangely my third bent (A Kettwiesel which is slower than my QNT, bent number 2.) found me pushing on all of the time, I think in order to try and match my relaxed times on the QNT. I has taken me over a year to accept that the Kettwiesel will take just over 10% longer to get anywhere compared to the QNT. I now ride the Kett' in that steady paced way but it took so long for me to relax on it.


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