# Why no mudguards for road bikes



## GoldenAxe (18 Jul 2008)

I cycle around London and am looking for a new frame. 

Problem: road bikes never seem to come with mudguard holes. Why?!

Am I alone in thinking this is crazy. OK, if you are perfomance obsessed then mudguards are a burden. But for the other half (majority?!) of riders then surely mudguards are essential. I'd even like to buy a carbon frame with mudguards. No doubt the manufacturers think I'm barmy, but it's a serious point. The added weight of a couple of braze-ons would be negligable. 

Can anyone recommend a brand or frame which is ideal for commuting and has mudguards - and ideally holes for a pannier too? And whilst your at it, explain why mudguards are frowned upon by makers of racing frames.

Seems perverse to me!


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## yello (18 Jul 2008)

Welcome the CycleChat GoldenAxe.


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## Joe24 (18 Jul 2008)

Welcome
I think your barmy for wanting to put full mudguards on a beutiful carbon race bike.
The only mudguards you could use are race blades. These are fine, but when there is standing water, expect the water from your tyres to go down your legs, into your shoes and give you wet feet. Still, it didnt stop me going out yesterday and getting my feet soaked.
If you have a light carbon race frame, you normally want it light, sleek and fast, putting on mudguards adds weight, and if you race they really are unnecersery. You cant put braze ons, on a carbon frame i dont think, it would have to be put into the weave of the carbon and secured that way.
Would a touring frame not be better? You can put on full mudguards, racks and whatever else you want. That might suit your needs more then a full on racer. You will still have the drop bars and some of the speed, but wont be as light weight.


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## tdr1nka (18 Jul 2008)

+1 on the recommendation for SKS Race Blades.

And welcome too


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## domtyler (18 Jul 2008)

You don't spend thousands on a top of the range carbon fibre race bike and use it for wet weather commuting!


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## Tynan (18 Jul 2008)

the audax end of road bikes do them

condor make two nice commuters with full guards and racks

suspect you wasting time with carbon frames though


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## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2008)

pearsons do a nice audax carbon race bike with facility to fit full guards £2k and its yours 

http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=107=

i think it looks the muts


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## RedBike (18 Jul 2008)

> Problem: road bikes never seem to come with mudguard holes. Why?!



The problems is most race bikes don't have enough clearance between the frame and rear tyre or the fork and front wheel to allow you to fit a mud-guard. 

The good news is there are loads of roads frames that do have enough clearance and braze-ons for mud-guards. These bikes are generally advertised as audax, training.

carbon bike with guards!

For commuting, I would recommend the Ribble winter bike.


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## RedBike (18 Jul 2008)

I'm too slow again!

Even if a frame hasn't got any mounts you could just use p-clips!
Race blades are better than nothing; but they're nowhere near as effective as full length guards.


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## chrisuren (18 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Welcome
> I think your barmy for wanting to put full mudguards on a beutiful carbon race bike.
> The only mudguards you could use are race blades. These are fine, but when there is standing water, expect the water from your tyres to go down your legs, into your shoes and give you wet feet. Still, it didnt stop me going out yesterday and getting my feet soaked.
> If you have a light carbon race frame, you normally want it light, sleek and fast, putting on mudguards adds weight, and if you race they really are unnecersery. You cant put braze ons, on a carbon frame i dont think, it would have to be put into the weave of the carbon and secured that way.
> Would a touring frame not be better? You can put on full mudguards, racks and whatever else you want. That might suit your needs more then a full on racer. You will still have the drop bars and some of the speed, but wont be as light weight.



+2

Welcome to CCF


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## fossyant (18 Jul 2008)

Ribble winter frame or complete bike..... will do the job............... Both my road bikes have less than 5mm clearance from tyre to brake, and they are 15 plus years old - you need to buy a specific frame set - i.e. not a race frame....... it's nothing new at all...


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jul 2008)

Welcome!

Why encumber a short wheelbase lightweight race-frame with mudguards? Most aren't designed for them. Makes no sense. I don't even want race-blades on my best road bike.
The number of seriosly wet commutes/year is actually quite low anyhow.

However, if I wanted mudguards, then as suggested go for the Condors, Pearsons or other Audaxy style bikes. Also there are the basic Trek roadies and the Giant SCR's that will take full guards and a light rack. A £500 SCR for me would make a great all-round commuter bike if you want a dry arse.

Mostly I don't mind mine getting wet!

PS: bonj will be along to tell you why you never ever need mudguards.


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## fossyant (18 Jul 2008)

If your bike is day in, day out bike, then guard fitting is needed - I use my old rigid MTB for commuting, but fully guarded - makes life much better and dry... the two road bikes are saved for better weather, or training 

There are a number of folk with road bikes on here with SKS full guards fitted - just don't get the race frames - e.g. Giant do SCR range which take guards, and then do TCR which doesn't !!! (someone correct me if I've fuddled this up)


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## fossyant (18 Jul 2008)

Fab Foodie said:


> The number of seriosly wet commutes/year is actually quite low anyhow.



Where have you been this week...... I'll post my pics of my new home made splash guard - works a treat and sit's just 2 inches off the tarmac...no...it's not a coke bottle, it's a trimmed pool liner.....looks the business...and works...'cos it's been GRIM this week........


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## woohoo (18 Jul 2008)

Giant SCRs are reasonable bikes, good value for money and have mudguard holes.


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## GoldenAxe (18 Jul 2008)

Great responses. Will research and return with conclusions!


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## John the Monkey (18 Jul 2008)

fossyant said:


> Where have you been this week......


I was going to make the same comment - I don't think my kit's been dry from one day to the next!

(Bloody awful today, especially).


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## Fab Foodie (18 Jul 2008)

fossyant said:


> Where have you been this week...... I'll post my pics of my new home made splash guard - works a treat and sit's just 2 inches off the tarmac...no...it's not a coke bottle, it's a trimmed pool liner.....looks the business...and works...'cos it's been GRIM this week........


Err Abingdon and Bristol. 
Not seen more than a few drops of rain. Must be why they say "it's grim up north..."


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## bonj2 (18 Jul 2008)

if you want to be cycle in a suit like boris johnson and not get it dirty when you splash through puddles 'cos you're too busy yakking away on your mobile phone to avoid them and not care at all like a true 'city slicker' type cyclist, then yes you'll 'need' mudguards. But then people like Boris johnson don't have really nice carbon road bikes.
My perspective is that if it's wet, then some part of you is going to get wet anyway whether you've got mudguards or not, and if you're wearing appropriate, good quality cycling gear then it shouldn't matter. BUt that's just my opinion, it's not a matter of fact - and other people aren't necessarily 'wrong' for disagreeing with my persective.


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## Kestevan (19 Jul 2008)

F**k me. 

Who are you and what have you done with Bonj?

Here i was expecting to read a hate filled missive full of the usual ranting, and I find an almost reasonable posting - I feel sadly let down....


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## Carwash (19 Jul 2008)

domtyler said:


> You don't spend thousands on a top of the range carbon fibre race bike and use it for wet weather commuting!



On the contrary, I work with someone who does _exactly that_. He is of course inordinately proud of the carbon-fibre beastie (apparently it's not just any carbon-fibre, but an especially rare or exclusive variety?), but he moans that he gets soaked with spray when riding in the wet. My response of, "Well, it's your own fault for not having mudguards you silly sod!" was greeted with puzzlement. Perhaps next time I shall suggest that, for his commute, he use a bike more suitable for commuting.


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## asterix (19 Jul 2008)

My audax bike has full guards. It's a bit embarrassing round here as it's mostly dry and sunny and I keep overtaking cyclists on beautiful naked road bikes. I don't think they like it


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## Andy in Sig (19 Jul 2008)

Goldenaxe,

what you have to remember is that road bikes represent the mincing, posturing end of cycling and mudguards are "simply unthinkable dahlink!"

Welcome and well done on a brave first post but for all our sakes please don't mention Shi***o or Ca******lo.

(They're for girls anyway: Rohloff is where it's at.)


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## bonj2 (19 Jul 2008)

Kestevan said:


> F**k me.
> 
> Who are you and what have you done with Bonj?
> 
> Here i was expecting to read a hate filled missive full of the usual ranting, and I find an almost reasonable posting - I feel sadly let down....



The "mudguards ceasefire", remember? I'm sticking to it.


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## ColinJ (19 Jul 2008)

Any snobby feelings I ever might have had about bikes were blown away on my first 200 km audax! After being overtaken and dropped by hordes of stereotypical old guys with grey hair and beards on tatty old steel-framed bikes with rattling mudguards and *huge* Carradice saddlebags (what do they put in them  ?), I no longer judge a rider by his/her bike...

I bodged some mudguards and a rack onto my Basso and kept it like that for a year. In the end I took it all back off again because 99% of my riding is shortish local rides in the dry.

If I could afford it and had the space, I'd have a dedicated audax/touring bike with mudguards and a rack. Trouble is - I have 3 bikes already...


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## Joe24 (19 Jul 2008)

Dont go by the saddle bags. The people just fill them up with helium filled balloons.


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## tdr1nka (19 Jul 2008)

bonj said:


> The "mudguards ceasefire", remember? I'm sticking to it.



Don't worry I'm rolling with my mudguards on 'safety'.


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## GrahamG (21 Jul 2008)

With the exception of race bikes, 'summer' bikes and fair weather cyclists, you'd be mad not to have mudguards on a bike living in a country like the UK. This is coming from someone who refused to fit any for 12 months of all weather commuting - when I discovered that your arse doesn't have to be soaking wet everytime it rains or there's standing water, it was a real revelation.


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## Joe24 (21 Jul 2008)

GrahamG said:


> With the exception of race bikes, 'summer' bikes and fair weather cyclists, you'd be mad not to have mudguards on a bike living in a country like the UK. This is coming from someone who refused to fit any for 12 months of all weather commuting - when I discovered that your arse doesn't have to be soaking wet everytime it rains or there's standing water, it was a real revelation.



You saying that i am a fair weather cyclist because my bike doesnt have mudguards on then?
I am not a fair weather cyclist, if it rains when i'm out my arse gets wet. If its raining before i go out, race blades go on. 
Infact, i went out the other day, got home soaking from the rain, even had a rear mudguard mud, feet soaked, shoes soaked. 
Personally, i think you should ride with no mudguards if theres no rain. If your going somewhere and its a nice day, why have mudguards on? But if your commuting and you know you might get to work in the sun but be home and it be raining, i see the point for them. 
They make you paranoid i think, you fear that if you take them off it will rain. Do some rides guardless in the rain, live a little


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## 4F (21 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> They make you paranoid i think, you fear that if you take them off it will rain. Do some rides guardless in the rain, live a little



No paranoia Joe. I got sick and tired of the wet arse syndrome when it had stopped raining but still had surface water.

I cannot be arsed with the idea of race blades and putting them on / taking them off etc.


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## Chris James (21 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> I am not a fair weather cyclist, if it rains when i'm out my arse gets wet. If its raining before i go out, race blades go on.



What a faff. How long does that take you?

I leave my guards on all year. That way I won't gte soaked even if I get caught out with the weather. 

But I have an audax bike, or as my LBS described it when I bought it, a 'sensible' bike!


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## Joe24 (21 Jul 2008)

Yeh, i understand that FFFF. Its not bad at the moment, i take them off and can go a few days without putting them back on. The fixed will probably have full guards on, but might end up taking them off in the summer. The race blades dont give enough protection sometimes i dont think.

Faf? Have you ever done it? I wipped my chain, oiled it, wiped the excess of then put the race blades on in under 5 mins. I can put the race blades on in less then 2, and thats with making them be on square.


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## Chris James (22 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Faf? Have you ever done it? I wipped my chain, oiled it, wiped the excess of then put the race blades on in under 5 mins. I can put the race blades on in less then 2, and thats with making them be on square.



Nope, have never fitted raceblades. Don't need to as I have full guards, so I just get on my bike and ride it, thereby saving the two minutes completely. I doubt the mudguards slow me down by two minutes on my rides and I still have a nice dry arse and clean chain!


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## 4F (22 Jul 2008)

Chris James said:


> Nope, have never fitted raceblades. Don't need to as I have full guards, so I just get on my bike and ride it, thereby saving the two minutes completely. I doubt the mudguards slow me down by two minutes on my rides and I still have a nice dry arse and clean chain!



Absolutely


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## zimzum42 (22 Jul 2008)

Just get wet, you'll be a little mucky, but your bike will look so much better.

Mudguards are for old codgers who go on CTC rides.....


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## Joe24 (22 Jul 2008)

zimzum42 said:


> Just get wet, you'll be a little mucky, but your bike will look so much better.
> 
> Mudguards are for old codgers who go on CTC rides.....



 
I have a nice dry arse with race blades. I still clean my chain after a ride, which is what i normally do after a ride. The 2 mins i will just go faster for, or save it while people with mudguards are still packing away their waterproofs, or putting them on incase it rains.
I think you should take them off one time and go splashing around in the rain, get completely wet then go home. You will be amazed how good it feels really.


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## zimzum42 (22 Jul 2008)

I just ride in shorts and a vest, they get soaked with sweat anyway, so why worry about rain and road muck?


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## Chris James (22 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> I think you should take them off one time and go splashing around in the rain, get completely wet then go home. You will be amazed how good it feels really.



Most of my cycling is up on Pennine moors. If I get totally soaked through then I'll just give myself hypothermia in winter.

I've been wet plenty of times in the past and it doesn't do much for me

I can't see the point in taking the guards off my bike. I may not look like a pro with them, but then again my triple chainset doesn't look very professional either. Nor my Brooks saddle and slow riding speed.

Mostly the objections to mudguards, like triple chainsets, are aesthetic rather than functional.

Guards can't weigh one down too much as on the recent Northern Rock Cyclone when we got to the first Ryal climb then all the full on roadies I was with (carbon frames, double chainsets and definitely no guards) all got off an walked up the hill whereas I cycled up it and didn't see them again!


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## GrahamG (22 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> You saying that i am a fair weather cyclist because my bike doesnt have mudguards on then?
> 
> They make you paranoid i think, you fear that if you take them off it will rain. Do some rides guardless in the rain, live a little



No, I'm saying you're mad 

OK, when my new frame arrives (the non-commuter one!) I'll leave the guards off until the autumn weather is miserable enough to justify them full-time. Maybe I'll be happy in the knowledge that the bike looks a little bit more pimp without them


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2008)

No room on mine...........







Or this one.............






Just wait till I get pics up of my commuter MTB with it's new wheels and tyres (arrived today) - rather too much gap with the mudguards......


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## gavintc (22 Jul 2008)

Mudguards go on when the weather gets cold. Until then, wet arse is completely acceptable. I hate mudguards and only put them on my commuter when I have to.


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## 4F (22 Jul 2008)

Joe24 said:


> I have a nice dry arse with race blades. I still clean my chain after a ride, which is what i normally do after a ride. The 2 mins i will just go faster for, or save it while people with mudguards are still packing away their waterproofs, or putting them on incase it rains.
> I think you should take them off one time and go splashing around in the rain, get completely wet then go home. You will be amazed how good it feels really.



Joe, I experimented earlier in the year and left them off for 4 weeks. 

Quite frankly I didn't enjoy the go faster stripe up my back nor did I enjoy wiping off the crud that had been sprayed onto my bald patch  grade 1 hairstyle when I got to work. 

It did not feel amazing, it felt rubbish which is why I put them back on.


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## RedBike (22 Jul 2008)

I hate having mud-guards on my bike. They slow it down, they rub the tyres and they look ugly; but there's no way i'm taking them off. I hate having a cold water sprayed up my backside and into my shoes more!

I've no intentions of putting guards on my carbon bike. Then again, I don't deliberately take it out when it's raining (been caught out a few times).


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## Joe24 (22 Jul 2008)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Joe, I experimented earlier in the year and left them off for 4 weeks.
> 
> Quite frankly I didn't enjoy the go faster stripe up my back nor did I enjoy wiping off the crud that had been sprayed onto my bald patch  grade 1 hairstyle when I got to work.
> 
> It did not feel amazing, it felt rubbish which is why I put them back on.




I respect you, i would of just put my race blades back on. Infact, staying for 4 weeks with them off is a tad strange, in the winter i sacrificed a hi-vis, and the dirt still hasnt washed off. But at the moment, i dont see the need for them, there isnt as much dirt and other rubbish being put on the roads as there was in winter.
GrahamG, thats the way. Make sure it is always clean, with lots of shiny bits. Remeber to look cool, and if anyone says you ride, say you dont ride, you roll with the best


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## Keith Oates (22 Jul 2008)

I wouldn't dream of putting mudguards on the C40 of TCR,(even if it were possible) they are racing bikes and should be ridden and treated as such, but for fast commuter bikes then having mudguards makes some sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## twowheelsgood (22 Jul 2008)

The answer is very simple. "Most people" don't actually want a pure road/race bike in the first place. But this forum isn't inhabited by "most people". The tragedy is the bike "most people" think they need actually isn't the one they need i.e. a mountain bike or cheap overall-clunky hybrid.

Unless you are fit and interested in competitive riding the difference in performance is negligable. You can also build-out some of the other features that make road bikes a poor choice for more general use like low spoke count wheels and unnecessarily high gearing. Once you've got drops then you've got the vast majority of the performance advantage anyway - an aero position if required. It's pretty easy these days to keep any bike usefully light with not-to-expensive components.

I ride a Kaffenback with drops and the performance delta is as close to nill on real road conditions as to be not worth thinking about. but it has a 36-spoke open pro rear wheel which despite my 100kg weight hasn't broken a spoke or needed truing in 3 years. 

The irony is, the ideal, fast yet practical bike was something like your grandad would have ridden and were more or less killed off by BMX and MTBs. We now call modern twists on these these audax bikes. I think they were know as "clubman racers" back then. Ridden to work in the week and for competition in at the weekend. Drop bars, steel frame and could take guards if needed. I guess as we all got wealthier then bikes could become more specialized to certain roles, as you could afford to have more than one.


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## GoldenAxe (22 Jul 2008)

@Twowheelsgood: Great post

You know, all I'm looking for is a really fast commuter bike. What you say about MTB is so true - too many communters grind away on pointlessly heavy lumps simiply because most racers aren't practical. And carbon racers aren't quite what a commuter needs either.

To commute I'll need mudguards. No question. Trouble is so few frames come with braze-ons. I don't want P Clips as I'd love to be able to put a pannier on too occassionally. The 5 mins to install it would be worth it since it'd mean I don't have to catch the tube. 

I'm an awkward customer though, as what I'd really like is a very compact geometry bike. I'm 6'2'' but I'd like a really tight frame, 53cm top tube, so my hands are right by my knees. I've seen a few single speed bikes in London that fit this description (usually with very narrow flat handlebars). God knows what make they are...

I'd also like a long front tube so my head is quite high. Commuting in London requires vigilance! Most racers/audax with 53cm head tubes have very short head tubes. If you are 6'2'' normal head tubes leave you staring at the ground.

I was looking at the Condor range. One downside - they come with 7003 aluminium, which Googling informs me leads to a very harsh ride. 

What baffles me is that there is so little variation in frame geometry. People have all sorts of weird preferences, so why can't the manufacturers produce a few oddities for unusual customers like me?

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. After all, no point being so picky when most of the time I'll be carrying around a sturdy Onguard U-lock.


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## Maz (22 Jul 2008)

A road bike fitted with mudguards is like a dog walking on its hind legs - When it is done, it is done badly, but what is even more surprising, is that it is done at all.

(flatbar) Specialized Sirrus any good for you, GoldenAxe?


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## bonj2 (22 Jul 2008)

twowheelsgood said:


> The answer is very simple. "Most people" don't actually want a pure road/race bike in the first place. But this forum isn't inhabited by "most people". The tragedy is the bike "most people" think they need actually isn't the one they need i.e. a mountain bike or cheap overall-clunky hybrid.
> 
> *Unless you are fit and interested in competitive riding the difference in performance is negligable.* You can also build-out some of the other features that make road bikes a poor choice for more general use like low spoke count wheels and unnecessarily high gearing. Once you've got drops then you've got the vast majority of the performance advantage anyway - an aero position if required. It's pretty easy these days to keep any bike usefully light with not-to-expensive components.
> 
> ...



but they _do_ rattle.


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## Noodley (23 Jul 2008)

bonj said:


> but they _do_ rattle.




Only if you are a baboon and can't fit them


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## 4F (23 Jul 2008)

ivancarlos said:


> I think that its less about weight and more about aerodynamics. Guards increase the drag factor.
> 
> Aesthetically they are wrong on a top end road bike. Nothing wrong with putting some race blades on your hack bike.
> 
> If you really want full guards buy a tourer, ostensibly still a road bike but quite different.



If I was that concerned about the possibity of drag factor then I would go on a diet first.


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## Bodhbh (23 Jul 2008)

What seems to put alot of people off them is the aesthetics. Is there not some high-end guards which somehow actually look good? Seems a real gap in the market. It's like alot of people dislike the look of racks, can see the point in general, but those minimalist Tubus racks are functional friggin works of art.


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## RedBike (23 Jul 2008)

My mud-guards, rack and lights are all quite light weight; but when I put them all on the bike I certainly notice the weight increase.


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## Chris James (23 Jul 2008)

ivancarlos said:


> I think that its less about weight and more about aerodynamics. Guards increase the drag factor.



Interesting.

By how much exactly? 

How would that compare to, say, the drag produced by the big fat bellies of some of the sellf deluded wannabe racers who expensively deck their bikes out with full carbon yet carry two stone of spare tyre at their midriff?

This whole thread hinges on what you view as a road bike I suppose. If you consider a road bike to be a bike for taking on the road (as opposed to exclusively a term for pro team clones) then in a lot of circumstances mudguards are very practical. 

I suspect lots of riders who are most against guards don't actually ride in the rain anyway. 

Most club riders I know have summer and winter bikes. If it is hammering it down in July they take the 'winter' bike anyway.


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## Chris James (23 Jul 2008)

RedBike said:


> My mud-guards, rack and lights are all quite light weight; but when I put them all on the bike I certainly notice the weight increase.



True, but the original thread was for commuting in London and I would have thought their usefulness far outweigh any weight penalty (especially since London is basically flat in my experience and once going on the flat or downhill the extra weight could even be a performance advantage).


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## Maz (23 Jul 2008)

Chris James said:


> How would that compare to, say, the drag produced by the big fat bellies of some of the sellf deluded wannabe racers who expensively deck their bikes out with full carbon yet carry two stone of spare tyre at their midriff?


I had to have a chuckle at that one!


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## twowheelsgood (23 Jul 2008)

Bonj,

We've had this conversation before. I have guards on 2 of my bikes. They haven't rattled since I fitted them years ago.

It's really simple:

1. Buy good ones (like SKS) and 
2. put loctite on the bolts. 

Really it isn't rocket science. Fit and forget and ride all year.

I fully understand the aesthetics side. I wouldn't fit them to my road bike either. I love all types of bikes but what I like to see most is people out actually USING them and the best way to ensure this is to get people riding something that's suitable for purpose and comfortable. For most people that won't be either a sharp handling roadie, nor a full suspension MTB.


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## jashburnham (28 Jul 2008)

If you are planning on using the bike for riding in London, then look no further than the Pearson Touche: http://http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=97

"_It’s key features are the aluminium smooth weld frame with integrated carbon forks and full mudguard clearance. 
The bike will take up to 28mm tyres and also features rack and bottle bosses. _"

I have one and it is fab. IMHO one gear is all you need for London. I have a Touche and don't use mudgaurds. If it's raining i'm gonna get wet anyway so I just don't see the point.

Also they are horrible looking things!


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## 4F (28 Jul 2008)

jashburnham said:


> If you are planning on using the bike for riding in London, then look no further than the Pearson Touche: http://http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=97
> 
> "_It’s key features are the aluminium smooth weld frame with integrated carbon forks and full mudguard clearance. _
> _The bike will take up to 28mm tyres and also features rack and bottle bosses. _"
> ...



Now that is a nice bike


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## jashburnham (28 Jul 2008)

Here's mine:


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## alecstilleyedye (29 Jul 2008)

i've taken the guards off my winter bike to use as my commuter in the summer. i just don't like the rattle and occasional rubbing you get with them (sks plastic ones).

i put them on myself, out of being stubborn enough not to pay someone to make the bike look less attractive.


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## bonj2 (29 Jul 2008)

alecstilleyedye said:


> i've taken the guards off my winter bike to use as my commuter in the summer. i just don't like the *rattle and occasional rubbing *you get with them (sks plastic ones).
> 
> i put them on myself, out of being stubborn enough not to pay someone to make the bike look less attractive.



And i'm sure you're not an incompetent when it comes to bikes alecs. yet people still stand there and swear you simply don't get rattling and rubbing. Just like they'll stand there and swear black's white, till their blue in the face.


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## Tynan (29 Jul 2008)

so it's a fact that guards rattle and rub then?


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## tdr1nka (29 Jul 2008)

OK, who broke the amnesty?


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## bonj2 (29 Jul 2008)

not my words. just the words of an unsatisfied mudugards user.


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## tdr1nka (29 Jul 2008)

bonj said:


> not my words. just the words of an unsatisfied mudugards user.



Reads as;

'Wasn't me, wasn't me.' 

Still a rather rare breed the 'lesser spotted unsatisfied mudguard user', some thing that should be cherished as part of our environs.


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## alecstilleyedye (29 Jul 2008)

to clarify my position, i do find them invaluable in the winter for helping keep my feet dry and my rucksack free of road muck.


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## tdr1nka (29 Jul 2008)

*resists dancing around and shouting, 'Ah HA!'*


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## Paulus (30 Jul 2008)

You will need mudguards for winter riding, but, would you put guards on a road bike? Would you put a roof rack on a Bentley continental?


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## Arch (30 Jul 2008)

I made a point of listening to mine, yesterday, as I rode over some cobbles, and couldn't hear any rattling, and I'm a terrible bodger most of the time...


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## asterix (30 Jul 2008)

Paulus said:


> You will need mudguards for winter riding, but, would you put guards on a road bike? Would you put a roof rack on a Bentley continental?



No, you are right, I doubt very much if I would.


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## swee'pea99 (30 Jul 2008)

I remember reading in one of Red Ken's missives designed to get the populace onto two wheels that if you commute every day of the year in London, you'll only get rained on I think it was 12 times. Sounded totally implausible at the time, but I'm not so sure now. Sure, it rains a lot more often than that - but of course it very often misses the actual half-hour you're on the road. 

Also, I agree with whoever said 'if it rains you're going to get wet anyway, so why bother?' Then again, I have a shower and dry clothes waiting at both ends of my route...if you don't, i guess that would make a difference.


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## 4F (30 Jul 2008)

It may only rain allegedly 12 times a year however what about all the days that it is not but there is standing water on the road.

I don't mind getting wet when it is peeing down but I hate the feeling you get of splashback up your arse / back when riding in standing water. I have a roadbike, I have mudguards, I don't have a Bentley continental and I don't give a flying **** whether some seem they are not passe. Plus mine don't rattle


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## Ludwig (31 Jul 2008)

A standard bike for leisure and commuting should come pre-fitted with mudguards, pannier carriers, lights etc. Only the ultra light racing machines should be without mudguards. We see a current trend where newbies and novices ride with with laiden rucksacks on their backs getting soaked to the skin looking like complete plonkers. I want to see some common sense returning to the world of cycling.


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## bonj2 (31 Jul 2008)

swee said:


> Then again, I have a shower and dry clothes waiting at both ends of my route...if you don't, i guess that would make a difference.



it was ME! and i still do say that... and i'm right


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## bonj2 (31 Jul 2008)

Ludwig said:


> A standard bike for leisure and commuting should come pre-fitted with mudguards, pannier carriers, lights etc. Only the ultra light racing machines should be without mudguards. We see a current trend where newbies and novices ride with with laiden rucksacks on their backs getting soaked to the skin looking like complete plonkers. I want to see some common sense returning to the world of cycling.



It's fairly trivial to factor out the need for panniers from your commuting requirements.


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## Smokin Joe (31 Jul 2008)

You might get rained on only twelve times during your annual commute, but the number of times you will be riding on wet roads will hit three figures during that time. Mudguards are not to stop what's comming down, but what's already there.


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## bonj2 (31 Jul 2008)

tends to run into the gutter where I live. Has the technology of building roads with the centre higher than the edges not caught on in wales yet?


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## Smokin Joe (31 Jul 2008)

bonj said:


> tends to run into the gutter where I live. Has the technology of building roads with the centre higher than the edges not caught on in wales yet?


You don't need standing water to get a spray up your back, you saucepan. 

Just a wet surface.


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## Madcyclist (31 Jul 2008)

I'm also very pleased with the Pearson Touche i bought a couple of weeks ago fitted out with SKS guards and rack. I bought the bike for commuting and winter rides I couldn't stand the discomfort of a sweaty back and rucksack. Since riding the Touche my return commute is now anything from the standard 9.5 miles to 45 miles now that i no longer have to use the rucksack. Ironically I haven't been caught out in the rain since I got it.

The Touche is highly recommended, handles superbly and real pleasure to ride. My average commuting speed has raised by 1.5 mph over the Giant SCR I was riding.


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## velocipede (5 Aug 2008)

Paulus said:


> You will need mudguards for winter riding, but, would you put guards on a road bike? Would you put a roof rack on a Bentley continental?



Then again, would you put an Elephant on a Cervélo

A simple story should help focus one's mind. Cycling to work one morning, I passed a number of parked coaches. As I cleared the last coach, I went through a puddle. Unfortunately this was no ordinary puddle, it was a puddle produced by the coach emptying its onboard toilet onto the road!! OMG, the smell was horrendous - akin to facilities found at some Premiership grounds after final whistle x10. Fancy turning up to work covered in that - a wet arse and face, are you really that hard!?!

Luckily, I had my trusty SKS Mudguards on!! And yep, and they're staying on!!

Nuff said.


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## bonj2 (5 Aug 2008)

velocipede said:


> Then again, would you put an Elephant on a Cervélo
> 
> A simple story should help focus one's mind. Cycling to work one morning, I passed a number of parked coaches. As I cleared the last coach, I went through a puddle. Unfortunately this was no ordinary puddle, it was a puddle produced by the coach emptying its onboard toilet onto the road!! OMG, the smell was horrendous - akin to facilities found at some Premiership grounds after final whistle x10. Fancy turning up to work covered in that - a wet arse and face, are you really that hard!?!
> 
> ...



how low will buses stoop? rank.


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## ColinJ (5 Aug 2008)

[quote name='swee'pea99']I remember reading in one of Red Ken's missives designed to get the populace onto two wheels that if you commute every day of the year in London, you'll only get rained on I think it was 12 times. 
[/QUOTE]
I read the same thing when I went to university in Manchester and that is one of the UK's wettest cities. I walked 2 km to uni and 2 km back twice a day Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays and once on Wednesday, 30 weeks a year for 3 years and I only got soaked a handful of times! I didn't even bother buying a proper rain coat. Ken was probably right.


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## bonj2 (5 Aug 2008)

> While riding home in the pouring rain I watched with some interest the bead of water formed around the middle of my front tyre, at the top of the revolution.
> 
> I keep telling you bonj, you're not riding fast enough.



no, on the contrary, i'm riding TOO fast. I get out of the way before the water has risen as high as me.


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## tdr1nka (5 Aug 2008)

Just to put the cat among the pidgeons for a mo.

Why don't I hear that mudguards are unnecessary on motorbikes and other vehicles as well?


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## snorri (6 Aug 2008)

Paulus said:


> You will need mudguards for winter riding,


Would it not be better for the Londoners to put the 'guards on at the end of May to give some protection through the wetter summer months:?:
http://www.visitlondon.com/weather/


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## summerdays (6 Aug 2008)

Last week I was doing the Coast to Coast with Mr Summerdays, and one day was very wet.... now he has a rack but no mud-guards, and reckons that the rack protects his back. Well it does at low speeds, but as his speed picked up, so stuff started hitting his back. OK the rack did protect him from the worst of it.

Then I also discovered that I had to hang back as I was starting to get covered... it got to the point where every downhill I had to go first. 

That is my main gripe with people without mudguards ... you might not care what you look like but I don't want the stuff off your back wheel in my face.


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## bonj2 (6 Aug 2008)

I've absolutely no idea why they're not necessary on motorbikes, I don't ride a motorbike or know anything about them so wouldn't really be able to comment.


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## Danny (6 Aug 2008)

This is what I love about CC. Someone can make innocent first post about mudguards and get 95 replies


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## swee'pea99 (7 Aug 2008)

96


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## GrahamG (7 Aug 2008)

Bodhbh said:


> What seems to put alot of people off them is the aesthetics. Is there not some high-end guards which somehow actually look good? Seems a real gap in the market. It's like alot of people dislike the look of racks, can see the point in general, but those minimalist Tubus racks are functional friggin works of art.



Can't believe I missed this one - SKS bluemels are far more sleek/sexy compared to the regular P35's.


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## DerekGB (3 Mar 2009)

GoldenAxe I dont think you`re barmy.I`ve got a new Carrera Vituoso and was also looking for an alternative to fit mudguards. SKS come with a rubberfitting and have a full cover over the back wheel.Only after seeing them on a other bike,did i decide to order them. The shop probike has a lot accessories http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=A1211. I hope this helps,it wont add much weight to a good bike 
regards Derek


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## Mike Rudkin (4 Mar 2009)

Hmm,on my Trek 1.2 I have fitted a rack which acts like a mudguard as far as water on my back is concerned.It also allows me to have a small Altura bag to carry those essentials. I don't have anything on the front yet-but after reading these posts I think I'll try a Race Blade.I don't really mind getting wet,nor do I care much how 'cool' I am percieved to be.
This is my first Road Bike for many,many yrs and wet or dry I love it !!


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## Randochap (5 Mar 2009)

Put in any distance on a mudguardless bike and you will find your love affair waning very quickly.

Race blades are next to useless, but better than nothing if you can't fit full fenders. "Audax" bikes are the perfect balance of comfort and speed and most come w/ eyelets and clearance for mudguards. 

There are even carbon versions out there.


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## Mike Rudkin (5 Mar 2009)

Yeah yeah-at 2009 of our pound thingys,I think not lol.


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## gavintc (5 Mar 2009)

You can get a good proper bike for that price.


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