# Double-vaxxed and CV19 for the second time?



## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

My Daughter had CV19 soon after the start of the Pandemic in the UK, early part of the first wave. Since then she has been double-vaxxed and now has contracted CV19 a second time (LF and PCR positive). Appreciate the vaccines are not 100%

Anyone know how common an occurrence this is?

Clearly it's a risk for all, but it's made me rethink social distancing and crowds etc. She was partying with her gf's at the weekend in Nottingham, all of whom had joined her from different parts of the country. 
My social contact bubble has been quite small for the last 18 months, but now am travelling around Europe again, so will probs need to keep a higher level of vigilance :-(
Like Flu, we're gonna have to live with this for a very very long time....


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## Dolorous Edd (14 Oct 2021)

Second infections appear to be quite common, even for people who have been vaccinated. Serious illness remains rare for people who have been vaccinated.

As you say, we are moving towards a situation where Covid is like flu. Not nice, and occasionally dangerous, but not a reason to take extraordinary measures. Although the bar on 'ordinary' has probably shifted a bit for a long time to come.


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## welsh dragon (14 Oct 2021)

We are still wearing masks in shops and stores and on public transport here in Wales and most people are still adhering to that. I will continue to stay well clear of people and will carry on wearing my mask as well.

As said having the jab doesn't prevent you from getting it a second time but hopefully it won't be serious enough to put the majority in hospital. 

Stay safe peeps


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## Slick (14 Oct 2021)

It appears to be a timing issue more than anything else, with 6 months protection seemingly being suggested as the rule of thumb. I think I read that double vaccinated and recovered from Covid-19 would offer something like 94% protection or thereabouts. I don't think anyone has suggested once you have had it, you won't get it again. Keep wearing those masks.


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## fossyant (14 Oct 2021)

It at least prevents those at risk dying. Still being cautious. Spent two weekends with mates and we all did LFT's before hand.

Our caravan site pub has brought in Covid 'passes' as well as the club - all clubbers in Wales now have to have covid passes.


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## Cycleops (14 Oct 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> My social contact bubble has been quite small for the last 18 months, but now am travelling around Europe again, so will probs need to keep a higher level of vigilance :-(
> Like Flu, we're gonna have to live with this for a very very long time....


Difficult to know how to maintain a 'higher level of vigilance'. You can wear a mask and sanitise your hands multiple times a day but will that be fully effective? We really don't know.
Your last sentence is most telling I believe. We just have to manage it as best we can.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Difficult to know how to maintain a 'higher level of vigilance'. You can wear a mask and sanitise your hands multiple times a day but will that be fully effective? We really don't know.
> Your last sentence is most telling I believe. We just have to manage it as best we can.


Well here in Engurlund, mask wearing and social distancing has all but disappeared. I still wear mine most of the time in shops and busy areas, but not 100% of the time as before, but it's a good reminder to carry and wear more often.
In airports and many places in EU mask wearing is still mandatory.

Every little helps....


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## Rocky (14 Oct 2021)

I do hope your daughter is ok, Fabbers. The evidence, as I understand it, shows being fully vaxed does prevent some reinfection but not all. Its major effect is to do reduce the severity of subsequent infections and it seems very good at preventing hospital admission. I know of quite a few vaxed GPs who have recently caught covid and felt rotten but none has ended up in hospital.


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## roadrash (14 Oct 2021)

Best wishes to your daughter @Fab Foodie


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2021)

Vaccination primes your immune system against a particular disease. It doesn’t prevent the virus getting inside your body. What it does do is give your immune system a head start on recognising it and neutralising it before it leads to more serious disease.

We each have unique immune systems. For some of us vaccination is enough to prevent symptoms , others mild symptoms, yet others stronger symptoms, and for a few they may still face hospitalisation.

Bit like mumps, measles, tetanus etc. The vaccinations don’t prevent infection but for vast majority mean infection is no longer a serious concern.


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## markemark (14 Oct 2021)

We’ll here’s the rub. Been vaxed. Recommend everyone does so. It reduces onward transmission. Which is great if we had a policy of stamping it out. But we don’t. So my guess is that everyone will get it. Some more than once. Then being vaxed does little to protect society in terms of infection. It will, however, massively rescued the risks which will lessen the burden on the nhs making it safer for everyone.
But ultimately, everyone will get it. The uvaxed will be disproportionately hospitalised abd killed by it. But I’ve stopped caring about them. As for society, the unvaxed won’t put the rest of us in greater danger.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2021)

markemark said:


> We’ll here’s the rub. Been vaxed. Recommend everyone does so. It reduces onward transmission. Which is great if we had a policy of stamping it out. But we don’t. So my guess is that everyone will get it. Some more than once. Then being vaxed does little to protect society in terms of infection.



The studies that have been done would appear to disagree that vaccination does little to prevent onward transmission. As always experts speak with circumspection where as us punters speak with conviction.

“According to the measurements, the amount of nasopharyngeal viral RNA detected by an RT-PCR test was 3 to 4.5 times lower among patients who had received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine within at least the past twelve days, than in unvaccinated individuals. This suggests that nasopharyngeal carriage declines markedly as the vaccine-induced immune response develops.

It is reasonable to think that carrying less virus means being less infectious, which is encouraging in terms of the potentially lower contagiousness of those vaccinated. However, the minimum amount of virus necessary to transmit the disease is not known at this stage, particularly since this quantity may evolve as a function of future variants of the virus.”

https://scienceblog.com/522486/do-covid-19-vaccines-prevent-infection-and-transmission/


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## markemark (14 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The studies that have been done would appear to disagree that vaccination does little to prevent onward transmission. As always experts speak with circumspection where as us punters speak with conviction.
> 
> “According to the measurements, the amount of nasopharyngeal viral RNA detected by an RT-PCR test was 3 to 4.5 times lower among patients who had received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine within at least the past twelve days, than in unvaccinated individuals. This suggests that nasopharyngeal carriage declines markedly as the vaccine-induced immune response develops.
> 
> ...


Oh I completely agree that it reduces transmission. That was not my point. My point is that the U.K. is not following a policy of trying to stamp it out. Therefore we’ll all get it at some point as it is endemic. That means that transmission rates are irrelevant as it’ll spread through the entire population irrespective. All being vaccinated does for transmission is spread it out across time.


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## si_c (14 Oct 2021)

Vaccination is not the silver bullet that many believe it will be. Not least because we haven't even approached the levels of vaccination required to be truly herd-immunised. It does reduce the risk of picking it up if exposed however if in an environment where there are quite a few infectious people the inevitable will happen if social distancing and masking aren't followed.

The severity of COVID has decreased significantly amongst those who are vaccinated and this is it's true usefulness, whilst people are still getting it they aren't dying from it in the numbers they were, nor are they requiring hospitalisation in the same numbers. In fact, quite unhelpfully, those who are vaccinated and young are far more likely to be asymptomatic than those unvaccinated.

This is going to become like Flu, we'll need shots every year and people will still get sick. But eventually it will recede into the background like all the pandemic causing influenza strains of the past.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2021)

markemark said:


> Oh I completely agree that it reduces transmission. That was not my point. My point is that the U.K. is not following a policy of trying to stamp it out. Therefore we’ll all get it at some point as it is endemic. That means that transmission rates are irrelevant as it’ll spread through the entire population irrespective. All being vaccinated does for transmission is spread it out across time.



Well of course it will become endemic. The only disease that has been stamped out is small pox. That took a worldwide effort and many many years. More than 10 years, possibly 20 years from memory. You cannot eliminate a transmissible disease as a single country unless you close all your borders including goods in / out.


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## si_c (14 Oct 2021)

markemark said:


> My point is that the U.K. is not following a policy of trying to stamp it out.



That horse fled that unbolted door the moment it became a pandemic. It's hasn't been possible to stamp it out since March 2020, mitigation of the effects is pretty much the only option.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You cannot eliminate a transmissible disease as a single country unless you close all your borders including goods in / out.


The Govt. seems to be enacting this as a strategy....


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## All uphill (14 Oct 2021)

I just want to remind everyone about long covid and that this isn't something that necessarily is just an unpleasant inconvenience once we are vaccinated. There can still be very nasty long term consequences. 

We are still avoiding restaurants, bars and other crowded places and will continue to do so.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> The Govt. seems to be enacting this as a strategy....



Not sure about the strategy bit at the end 😂


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## Littgull (14 Oct 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> My Daughter had CV19 soon after the start of the Pandemic in the UK, early part of the first wave. Since then she has been double-vaxxed and now has contracted CV19 a second time (LF and PCR positive). Appreciate the vaccines are not 100%
> 
> Anyone know how common an occurrence this is?
> 
> ...



Yes, my son's mother in law has had COVID-19 twice and the latest one was some months after being double jabbed!

She's ok now though.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Oct 2021)

Interesting article in Ars Technica today indicating that a booster shot of a different vaccine to the original administered may well prove more effective...
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...s-good-if-not-better-than-all-the-same-shots/


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## Venod (14 Oct 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> Anyone know how common an occurrence this is?



Son and Daughter in law have both been double vaccinated, they both contracted Covid 19 about a month back, had to isolate for 10 days, but they were not poorly with it, the Dil works at a nursery and one of the children was infected that's how it came to them.


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## Arrowfoot (14 Oct 2021)

I am not sure if this is common - Positive - vaxxed 2 doses - another positive, It will be good for the authorities throw light on it. 

Thanks @Fab Foodie for raising this.


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## fossyant (14 Oct 2021)

Spoke to my boss boss the other day, and he said he felt a bit of a fraud having to take the time off due to a positive. Nothing more than a 'cold' he described, but tests said otherwise.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

All uphill said:


> I just want to remind everyone about long covid and that this isn't something that necessarily is just an unpleasant inconvenience once we are vaccinated. There can still be very nasty long term consequences.
> 
> We are still avoiding restaurants, bars and other crowded places and will continue to do so.


A point worth making, we have a long-covid sufferer in this house already....


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2021)

The general lack of mask-wearing in supermarkets, on public transport and elsewhere in England means that I am now wearing an N95 mask to protect _myself _on any bus with more than half-a-dozen widely-spaced passengers, on trains and in shops. When I eat out, it really _is _'out', as in 'outside'. I'm also still social distancing, haven't been back to - and doubt I'll be going back to - choir, and only attend my machine knitting club because it's less than a dozen people in a very spacious, airy hall, only used by us on that day, we keep the windows and doors open and we social distance. 

I _might_ be a little bit more relaxed once I've had my booster but I can't see me discarding the N95 masks for public transport until next spring/summer at the earliest if 'things' don't change, nor giving up social distancing. My concern is not to avoid the virus entirely but to minimise the amount of it to which I am exposed, which I believe may well play a significant part in whether infection actually develops. 

I never was one for christmas jollifications in the past - I enjoy _some _of the foods and the traditions of the time of year (and despise others) but it has no religious significance for me, so I'm not the slightest bit bothered about it being 'cancelled' or whatever daft thing people seem so traumatised by. 

Amtivaxxers seem to be getting bolder; IMO they are, effectively, complicit in murder.


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## All uphill (14 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> The general lack of mask-wearing in supermarkets, on public transport and elsewhere in England means that I am now wearing an N95 mask to protect _myself _on any bus with more than half-a-dozen widely-spaced passengers, on trains and in shops. When I eat out, it really _is _'out', as in 'outside'. I'm also still social distancing, haven't been back to - and doubt I'll be going back to - choir, and only attend my machine knitting club because it's less than a dozen people in a very spacious, airy hall, only used by us on that day, we keep the windows and doors open and we social distance.
> 
> I _might_ be a little bit more relaxed once I've had my booster but I can't see me discarding the N95 masks for public transport until next spring/summer at the earliest if 'things' don't change, nor giving up social distancing. My concern is not to avoid the virus entirely but to minimise the amount of it to which I am exposed, which I believe may well play a significant part in whether infection actually develops.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you. You have said it very clearly.


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## Punkawallah (14 Oct 2021)

Well, that escalated quickly!

From ‘I’m fully vaccinated and have tested positive’ to ‘antivaxers are muderers’ in two pages. 

Side order of ‘Calm Down’ to table 12 :-)


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## MrGrumpy (14 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> The general lack of mask-wearing in supermarkets, on public transport and elsewhere in England means that I am now wearing an N95 mask to protect _myself _on any bus with more than half-a-dozen widely-spaced passengers, on trains and in shops. When I eat out, it really _is _'out', as in 'outside'. I'm also still social distancing, haven't been back to - and doubt I'll be going back to - choir, and only attend my machine knitting club because it's less than a dozen people in a very spacious, airy hall, only used by us on that day, we keep the windows and doors open and we social distance.
> 
> I _might_ be a little bit more relaxed once I've had my booster but I can't see me discarding the N95 masks for public transport until next spring/summer at the earliest if 'things' don't change, nor giving up social distancing. My concern is not to avoid the virus entirely but to minimise the amount of it to which I am exposed, which I believe may well play a significant part in whether infection actually develops.
> 
> ...


It’s funny I’m down south in Yorkshire just for now. Mask wearing is mixed however, but good to see quite a few still wearing . Still law in Scotland and I don’t see it as too big a deal.


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## MrGrumpy (14 Oct 2021)

Punkawallah said:


> Well, that escalated quickly!
> 
> From ‘I’m fully vaccinated and have tested positive’ to ‘antivaxers are muderers’ in two pages.
> 
> Side order of ‘Calm Down’ to table 12 :-)


I’m seeing more now of the anti cax brigade abandoning covid as that’s a battle lost to now calling out flu vaccines as the devils work. Quite frankly Everyone’s free to have an opinion but don’t spread lies !


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> It’s funny I’m down south in Yorkshire just for now. Mask wearing is mixed however, but good to see quite a few still wearing . Still law in Scotland and I don’t see it as too big a deal.



It IS weird. The Lidl I go to, during the week, is about 75% mask wearing. I've been twice on a Sunday, each time it was about 85% NON-masking. So I won't be going on a Sunday again. Weekday mornings for me in future. 

Wearing a bloomin' cloth or paper mask is NOTHING for 98% of the population, and it _does _offer a significant degree of protection to others in the wearer's vicinity. If people aren't willing (or being forced!) to offer that to me, then it is abundantly clear that I have to protect myself. Fortunately from years of wearing extensive PPE in my former career in radiation physics, I know how to fit, wear and use the stuff, and tbh modern N95 masks of suitable design - even if not professionally fitted - offer a _ pretty _high level of protection to the wearer in non-clinical high exposure settings, if handled correctly.


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## Kingfisher101 (14 Oct 2021)

The whole thing has been a total crock of xxxx, here no one wore masks hardly anyway and no one is wearing them now anywhere.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> I’m seeing more now of the anti cax brigade abandoning covid as that’s a battle lost to now calling out flu vaccines as the devils work. Quite frankly Everyone’s free to have an opinion but don’t spread lies !


Don't spread lies or actively promote a 'cause' that will needlessly cause deaths.


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## neil_merseyside (14 Oct 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> It IS weird. The Lidl I go to, during the week, is about 75% mask wearing. I've been twice on a Sunday, each time it was about 85% NON-masking. So I won't be going on a Sunday again. Weekday mornings for me in future.


Sunday and Thursday are offers days so are to be avoided, well unless you need one of the offerings.


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## Jenkins (14 Oct 2021)

To go back to the OP...

My dad & stepmother had a mild case of Covid in the early part of 2020, were double jabbed as soon as their age range call ups were issued (he's 81, she's 70 next year) and he had the booster shot a couple of weeks ago. They went on a pensioners' special break to Blackpool last week by coach and are now both isolating again following positive tests - again with mild symptoms. Given his age and medical history including a triple heart bypass 10 years ago, I'm of the opinion that at least the vaccine & the booster have reduced the potential effects to a minimum.

Edited to add - and it's his birthday today so he can't even have the family round having missed the big 80th gathering last year due to Government restrictions on group sizes.


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## Joey Shabadoo (14 Oct 2021)

On holiday last month, 4 adults and 3 young children. All 4 adults double vaccinated and fairly switched on regarding staying safe. Youngest granddaughter was caught licking the metal bannisters at the hotel. What do you do, she's six years old. Next day she complained everything tasted bad then she felt ill and slept for 24 hrs. Yep, Covid. We all got it. For me it was a raging temperature, felt weak, shaking like a dog and stuffed up like a bad cold with headaches etc. Others reported similar.


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> Sunday and Thursday are offers days so are to be avoided, well unless you need one of the offerings.



When I've been on a Thursday, it's been fine. I just think it's the demographic that uses the shop at weekends compared to in the week. It's in a rather odd position for a Lidl or an Aldi tbh, but once the new build surrounding it is finished it'll be in an absolutely prime spot.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Oct 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> On holiday last month, 4 adults and 3 young children. All 4 adults double vaccinated and fairly switched on regarding staying safe. Youngest granddaughter was caught licking the metal bannisters at the hotel. What do you do, she's six years old. Next day she complained everything tasted bad then she felt ill and slept for 24 hrs. Yep, Covid. We all got it. For me it was a raging temperature, felt weak, shaking like a dog and stuffed up like a bad cold with headaches etc. Others reported similar.


Oh dear - kids eh?
My covid sounds much like yours is/was, my daughter’s first was much this same.
This time around, she’s nowhere near as bad, but it’s stopped us all meeting at a big fam bash at the weekend :-(


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## rogerzilla (14 Oct 2021)

The jab is 60% effective. It is therefore fairly common to catch Covid afterwards. It is more effective against serious illness.

I've been massively exposed to Covid both before and after the jabs - the whole family have had it. It doesn't give me any real symptoms and I've never tested positive. I am, however, a flu magnet, so it evens out!


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## MrGrumpy (14 Oct 2021)

Pretty sure I has it last year . Albeit symptoms didn’t fit the profile but in hindsight others reported similar in later months after testing. ( bad dose of the scoots went on for a number of days ) 

we are all now double vaccinated now even our 15yr old has had his single vaccine . That’s as much as we can do. I will no doubt get it again just hope it weakened the longer this goes on .


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## newts (14 Oct 2021)

I had symptoms in early March 2020 after working at a large event, never confirmed via test. First AZ jab in Feb had me feeling rough for a few days with a blinding headache, second jab 10 weeks later felt fine. Positive test mid July, high temperature, runny nose & severe breathing issues. 12 weeks on still get out of breath quickly, aching chest/ribs, taste/smell poor (barely smell the coffee pot) & always tired. I've just been referred for ECG, Blood count & long covid clinic. Dr has suggested excercising as much as i feel able to speed up recovery.


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## rogerzilla (15 Oct 2021)

There seems to be a fairly clear correlation between people who got very ill with Covid before the jab and those who then had a bad reaction to the jab itself. Conversely, if the jab gave you no side-effects at all, chances are that Covid wouldn't have done much to you either. It's logical, really. The problem is that you don't know in advance which group you fall into!


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## keithmac (30 Oct 2021)

I'm double jabbed and came down with it on Thursday, apart from a headache for 12hrs and loss of taste I'm fine.

Didn't have any bother with either jab (Pfizer for me).

It was always on the cards, luckily we're not as busy as usual at work as I'm now housebound..


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## slowmotion (30 Oct 2021)

We went for a few day to a remote house in Hereford. All four of us came back with The Plague, almost certainly caught from one of us who came from London with it. We were all double vaccinated. It changed my ideas about "being out of the tunnel". 

Wear a mask, FFS.


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## bonzobanana (31 Oct 2021)

The benefit of face masks is almost entirely to other people, it captures most or all of the viruses being emitted from the nose or mouth when you cough or sneeze plus even if some viruses get through to another person by reducing the viral load that person's immune system has more time to adapt and the symptoms can be less serious. At the beginning when doctors and nurses were dying at a far greater number than the general population it was because their exposure or viral load was far higher and more frequent than typical which was just one viral encounter. 

Unfortunately its really those wearing face masks who are saving those who don't. As someone who has been in hospital 4 times with covid and has only really got decent lung functionality back about 6 to 8 weeks ago I wear a face mask because I don't wish this on others. I feel after having the virus and 2 vaccines I'm fairly safe from severe infection now. The issue was my body couldn't create anti-bodies so my body damaged my lungs fighting the infection by destroying the cells that contained the virus. Now I can create anti-bodies.

Don't forget Vitamin D and Zinc, these can massively reinforce your immune system against Covid. We are now moving into winter when the body is likely to be Vitamin D deficient and much more vulnerable to covid.


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