# Rear-ended by a bus, my fault apparently!



## TwickenhamCyclist (28 Apr 2010)

Rear-ended by a bus, my fault apparently!


Just had an gentle shunt from behind by one of our local bus drivers, and then go moaned at by her and her colleague (who was driving in the opposite direction) and then got FA response (other than to tell me off for swearing) from the Police Support Officers travelling on bus No2

Cycling towards Twickenham, along Richmond Road, just outside The Crown for those who know it, pinch point, mini RAB then another pinch point. First pinch point, aware of bus a little close behind, thought they might be trying an overtake on approach to RAB – the road really narrows here and is literally the width of a bus if not a little less, so I stayed in primary, straight over RAB, onto next narrow stretch and stuck my arm out to turn left into pub car park, heard a beep from the bus behind, looked round to see she was extremely close behind me, and then she bumped into me. I stopped and looked around, didn’t say a word. Wasn’t a big bump but I was a little shocked/surprised.
DRIVER 1: That was your fault, why did you stop.
ME: Because you just hit me.
Oncoming driver stops and leans out of window.
DRIVER 2: (to me) I saw that, your bang out of order, it was your fault.
ME (confused) What, for turning left?
Drivers then start exchanging details and No2 starts telling No1 he saw it all and will stick up for her etc…

At no point did driver enquire if I was OK, or if bike was damaged, or apologise – just quick to blame me. 
I was calm and polite.

At this point two PCSOs get off bus No2. Asked what happened and I told them the bus was trying to overtake and/or driving too close and simply went into the back of me.

Bus drivers join in – with silly statements such as “he was in the road” etc??? WTF is that supposed to mean – of course I was “in the road”.

PCSOs say they didn’t see anything (fair enough) and just tell me to move out of the road – they were completely ****ing uninterested, just as I would expect, so I just wheeled my bike up to the lamp post to lock it up and go into The Crown. Bus drivers both stayed still – PCSOs just stood there staring. I started to walk off.

Bus driver one shouts to PCSOs “Is his bike damaged or what, can I go? I need to get on?”
PCSO looks at me, so I just shout back at driver/PCSO “It’s not damaged, so she can just **** Off” (I know, not big, not clever, but seeing as everyone else seemed to have a flippant attitude I thought I’d join in, and it made me feel better)

PCSO then tells me it’s not polite to use such language in front of her – fair point – and I told her (so driver could hear) it wasn’t polite to drive a ****ing bus right up my arse and hit me – second warning about swearing – said words to the effect of that I thought in the grand scheme of things telling people to **** off was a lesser evil than driving buses into them. 

PCSO asked me if I wanted to do anything about it – I said as there was no damage I felt that would be a waste of time – PCSO said something about complaining to bus company if I wanted – again pointless.



The bus drivers were out of order, and I'm really pissed off by thier attitude and the fact i can do nothing (legally) about it, but I feel guilty now about swearing in front of the PCSO – so for what it’s worth apologies to her…


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## summerdays (28 Apr 2010)

Can't you contact the bus company with the bus number and route (and approximate time) and ask them to check their on board tapes?

Is your bike ok? Not a very good attitude from any of them.


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## Davywalnuts (28 Apr 2010)

What a nightmare, am actually getting crossed reading it!!

What gets my goat the most, as its happened to me, is that we are the ones hit upon for a "public order offence" and yet thats just the effect from the cause of the driver, and in this case the other driver who was being a d*ck and couldnt give a sh*t about you or that you could have gone under their bus! 

You sure you wouldnt want to take it further with the bus co. as am sure there would be on-board footage?


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## hackbike 666 (28 Apr 2010)

If a bus shunted you I would have thought it was the bus's fault.


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## Mike! (28 Apr 2010)

I work for a Bus company and can tell you this would be taken very seriously. All buses in the City have CCTV which will show the driver was in the wrong - take it up with the company if you have the details!


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## shippers (28 Apr 2010)

Hard to imagine when one vehicle hits another from behind and it's not the fault of the one behind.
You weren't in reverse, were you?


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## downfader (28 Apr 2010)

TC - please for the sake of others consider reporting it! If they ask about you swearing then frankly they have to remember how bl**dy dangerous it is to drive a bus into someone. 

If it's a First bus theres a very high chance there is CCTV on board, sometimes with sound. IIRC you have a legal right to a copy if you're on it too, so play that angle. 

Tailgaiting imo is FAR worse when drivers do it to vulnerable groups like us, horse riders and mobility scooters.


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## mr_cellophane (28 Apr 2010)

I would report it, if only because of the attitude of No 2 driver.


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## hackbike 666 (28 Apr 2010)

shippers said:


> Hard to imagine when one vehicle hits another from behind and it's not the fault of the one behind.
> You weren't in reverse, were you?



I could do that on my fixie if I was any good.


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## Guvnor (28 Apr 2010)

Don't feel guilty at all! As an ex-cycle/motorbike courier(15years) I've had many experiances when it comes to bus drivers. Believe me I would have done a lot more than swear! You should of took his details and report it also, as if he does it again, they will have a record that they are driving eratically. As for the pco's, nothing but posh parking wardens! Useless people who should know better. Hope your ok.


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## iamanidiot (28 Apr 2010)

If you did obtain the footage from the bus company, would you be allowed to put it up on youtube? It would make for one of the more interesting cycling videos up on youtube.


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## Mark_Robson (28 Apr 2010)

Guvnor said:


> Don't feel guilty at all! As an ex-cycle/motorbike courier(15years) I've had many experiances when it comes to bus drivers. Believe me I would have done a lot more than swear! You should of took his details and report it also as if he does it again, they will have a record that they are driving eratically. As for the pco's, nothing but posh parking wardens! Useless people who should know better. Hope your ok.


+1 If the drivers believes that she is blameless then she needs to be educated.


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## downfader (28 Apr 2010)

iamanidiot said:


> If you did obtain the footage from the bus company, would you be allowed to put it up on youtube? It would make for one of the more interesting cycling videos up on youtube.



Might be an issue with the data protection act seeing as its recorded by a private company.. or possibly copyright. You might need legal advice first, or take the video down to the press to highlight "road safety issues". Then the press can deal with the legalities.


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## Tinuts (28 Apr 2010)

Mark_Robson said:


> +1 If the drivers believes that she is blameless then she needs to be educated.



+1 except I'd replace the word educated with something more appropriate.


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## downfader (28 Apr 2010)

Tinuts said:


> +1 except I'd replace the word educated with something more appropriate.



Alan Sugar-esque?


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## rusky (28 Apr 2010)

WTF is it with drivers this week? The good weather has hatched a new breed of numptys.

I've just finished filling in a report online to the local plod about a car that passed me so close that I could touch the car!

His reaction was, I had hit his car, my answer was, that proves how close you were!


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## gaz (28 Apr 2010)

What a bunch of a holes. If a vehicle drives into the back of your car it's the rear driver that is at fault. The same is true of bike vs bus.


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## Headgardener (28 Apr 2010)

Do bus drivers still have to display their PSV licence in those little leatherette holders?


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## downfader (28 Apr 2010)

Headgardener said:


> Do bus drivers still have to display their PSV licence in those little leatherette holders?



I dont think they do.


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## D-Rider (28 Apr 2010)

rusky said:


> WTF is it with drivers this week? The good weather has hatched a new breed of numptys.
> 
> I've just finished filling in a report online to the local plod about a car that passed me so close that I could touch the car!
> 
> His reaction was, I had hit his car, my answer was, that proves how close you were!



I've had exactly this as well. Bloke gets out of car and tells me not to f***ing touch his car. At least he shut up about it when I explained if I was able to touch his car he was too close.


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## Will1985 (28 Apr 2010)

You should have left your bike in front of the bus and called the proper police. Bus hits cyclist....collision? Call it assault with a deadly weapon fwiw.


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2010)

gaz said:


> What a bunch of a holes. If a vehicle drives into the back of your car it's the rear driver that is at fault. The same is true of bike vs bus.




You'd think so...but folk always blame someone else.....grrrrrr


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## redjedi (28 Apr 2010)

If a road user goes into the back of another road user it is always their fault. They should be leaving you enough space to do something un-expected and still stop in time, especially so if they have a bus full of passengers.

Don't feel guilty, and I would have got their details and taken it further, so if nothing else they learn from their actions.

I've always found the bus drivers in SW London to be very good so far, shame not this time.


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## fossyant (29 Apr 2010)

redjedi said:


> If a road user goes into the back of another road user it is always their fault. They should be leaving you enough space to do something un-expected and still stop in time, especially so if they have a bus full of passengers.
> 
> Don't feel guilty, and I would have got their details and taken it further, so if nothing else they learn from their actions.
> 
> I've always found the bus drivers in SW London to be very good so far, shame not this time.



You should see the mess I've got with a car that drove into the back of my car in January...not sorted, despite my wife and another driver (following the third party) seeing the 'bint' applying make-up over the mile or two before..... 

Lying toss pots.............


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## Sheffield_Tiger (29 Apr 2010)

rusky said:


> WTF is it with drivers this week? The good weather has hatched a new breed of numptys.
> 
> I've just finished filling in a report online to the local plod about a car that passed me so close that I could touch the car!
> 
> His reaction was, I had hit his car, my answer was, that proves how close you were!




Similar (after I palm-slapped a car that brushed past me, actually initiating physical contact)

Him "touch my car that's criminal damage"
Me "call the police then"
Him " I will"
Me "go on then"
Him "I will"
Me "go on then"
Him "I will"
Me "THEN **CALL THEM** OR SHUT UP. EITHER DO IT OR DON'T"
Him "I will"
Me "Are you going to or are you just going to talk about it? - would you like me to call them?"

etc etc


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## rusky (29 Apr 2010)

D-Rider said:


> I've had exactly this as well. Bloke gets out of car and tells me not to f***ing touch his car. At least he shut up about it when I explained if I was able to touch his car he was too close.



Had the same yesterday! except the guy didn't get out as I was bigger than him!


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## downfader (29 Apr 2010)

Will1985 said:


> You should have left your bike in front of the bus and called the proper police. Bus hits cyclist....collision? Call it assault with a deadly weapon fwiw.



This is not America.


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## jimboalee (29 Apr 2010)

Challenge their intelligence.

"If the stopping distance at 20 mph is 40ft, the stopping distance at 30 mph is 75ft, the stopping distance at 40 mph is 120ft and the stopping distance at 50mph is 175ft; can you give me the coefficients for the 3rd order polynomial equation and the resultant stopping distance for 10 mph?"

"Errrr,, what mate?"


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## RyanW (30 Apr 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Challenge their intelligence.
> 
> "If the stopping distance at 20 mph is 40ft, the stopping distance at 30 mph is 75ft, the stopping distance at 40 mph is 120ft and the stopping distance at 50mph is 175ft; can you give me the coefficients for the 3rd order polynomial equation and the resultant stopping distance for 10 mph?"
> 
> "Errrr,, what mate?"


Errr. What


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## NigC (30 Apr 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Challenge their intelligence.
> 
> "If the stopping distance at 20 mph is 40ft, the stopping distance at 30 mph is 75ft, the stopping distance at 40 mph is 120ft and the stopping distance at 50mph is 175ft; can you give me the coefficients for the 3rd order polynomial equation and the resultant stopping distance for 10 mph?"
> 
> "Errrr,, what mate?"



15ft

Oh sorry, I'm the cyclist not the driver 

I had an incident a few years ago in the car: Sitting in a traffic queue at some lights, foot on brake (it's an auto), not moving anywhere when the reverse lights suddenly come on of car in front  Slowly he starts creeping backwards  Many blasts of the horn later (3 or 4 seconds) he nudges my font bumper . He's very apologetic and says the car suddenly shifted into reverse without him realising  Luckily there was no damage, but can just image what the police would have thought of me if it had been more serious and the other guy had not admitted anything  The moral here: don't get too close to Jags when queueing at traffic lights.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand: I find it incredible that a bus driver would be so stupid as to claim it was the cyclists fault. Add to that another bus driver perfectly willing to stick for the first  I'm really glad you're OK, but I'd feel happier knowing that drivers like that were not legally in control of massive red killing machines


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## Twenty Inch (30 Apr 2010)

I'm angry at the drivers for their attitude and dangerous driving.

I'm also angry at TC for not getting details of everyone, doing a drawing on the spot, and reporting it to the bus company.


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## jonny jeez (30 Apr 2010)

Both Bus drivers are in need of training (I dont mean this in a sarcastic sense either)...it is possible that the first knew they had done wrong and the second "backed them up" simply as they both know that the penalty would be a dismissal.

this is no excuse, the bus driver showed appalling lack of skill & consideration for other road users.

you must report it for everyones sake, at best they will recieve better training, at worst they will loose their job. Either way, it was their choice to drive like that.

as far as the PCSO's s concerned, It sounds as if they did a pretty fair job. keep in mind they did not witness the event so can draw no conclusion, all they can try to do is ensure the situation does not inflame further (by stopping abuse/bad language) which helps everyone.... and ensure that you are advised as to your rights..ie "do you want to report this/take it further"

at the end of the day, what else can they ..or even a proper-copper... do.

Please.... please... report this, the driver needs swift retraining


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## Jezston (30 Apr 2010)

Ask any experienced policeman what they think of PCSOs - off the record of course.

They will tell you they are ****ing useless and at best a liability.

They are basically 'cub scout' police - not competent enough to be real police, and no career path. Although ones in the Met get 28k, which is more than I earn


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## redjedi (30 Apr 2010)

I was wondering what PCSO stood for the other day, then it occured to me

Police Constable shaped object ?


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## Jezston (30 Apr 2010)

I hate it when people do a reply and it's just a meaningless and pointless one word response like "lol", but in this case I must make an exception.

LOL!


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## lit (30 Apr 2010)

Jezston said:


> Ask any experienced policeman what they think of PCSOs - off the record of course.
> 
> They will tell you they are ****ing useless and at best a liability.
> 
> They are basically 'cub scout' police - not competent enough to be real police, and no career path. Although ones in the Met get 28k, which is more than I earn



I think that's a little bit harsh to be honest, I've met a couple who's intentions towards a incident I had with a van driver being as responsive as positive as they could be, I look at each PCSO or PO on a individual basis.


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## gb155 (30 Apr 2010)

anytime a vehicle hits another vehicle from behind its the there fault, driving without due care and attention, I used to work as a litigator for non fault accidents, so by virtue of the fact you were rear ended its the bus drivers fault, end of, the fact the PCSO's didnt pick up on this is shambloic TBH


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## Sh4rkyBloke (30 Apr 2010)

Jezston said:


> I hate it when people do a reply and it's just a meaningless and pointless one word response like "lol", *but in this case I must make an exception*.
> 
> LOL!


... but you didn't, there are about 30 other words with your "LOL".


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## TwickenhamCyclist (9 May 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback

I woke up the next morning feeling a little peeved that I basically let the bus driver get away with it, and, on closer inspection, saw that my rear wheel was slightly buckled so I went to the police station and as I had not taken down any details at the scene – not even the bus route number – quickly realised that I had FA to go on, so the officer on the desk took my details and posted an email to all the PCSOs to see if the one’s that were there took any details.

Didn’t hear a thing, and had given up on it until yesterday, when the desk officer phoned back with the name of the driver, route and garage ( he had been on holiday and the PSCO had emailed him back the next day, but he had only just logged on!).

So my question is, do I go straight to the bus company, complain and ask for a new wheel or is it best to go via a claims company, and if so which one?

Note – it’s not a particularly expensive wheel (Mavic 517 with LX Hub) – but it’s more the principle than the money


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## downfader (9 May 2010)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> Thanks for all the feedback
> 
> I woke up the next morning feeling a little peeved that I basically let the bus driver get away with it, and, on closer inspection, saw that my rear wheel was slightly buckled so I went to the police station and as I had not taken down any details at the scene – not even the bus route number – quickly realised that I had FA to go on, so the officer on the desk took my details and posted an email to all the PCSOs to see if the one’s that were there took any details.
> 
> ...



Are you with the CTC or BC? If so see if they'll handle a claim for a new wheel as it will end up on the driver's insurance and the company's records. As a result it could make the idiot uninsurable for public transport duties 

Which imo would be a worthwhile outcome considering they ferry people about all day.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (9 May 2010)

downfader said:


> Are you with the CTC or BC? If so see if they'll handle a claim for a new wheel as it will end up on the driver's insurance and the company's records. As a result it could make the idiot uninsurable for public transport duties
> 
> Which imo would be a worthwhile outcome considering they ferry people about all day.




Yes - CTC


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## hackbike 666 (9 May 2010)

I would have thought if you were going to do anything you would have done it immediately.


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## Tinuts (9 May 2010)

redjedi said:


> I was wondering what PCSO stood for the other day, then it occured to me
> 
> Police Constable shaped object ?



Ha Ha! Brilliant.


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## Tinuts (9 May 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> I would have thought if you were going to do anything you would have done it immediately.



Sometimes it just doesn't work like that. I've certainly woken up the next day thinking I should have pursued a more, er, *robust* course of action.


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## dellzeqq (9 May 2010)

TC - please write to the bus company and copy the letter to TfL - stick to the facts and make yourself out to be the living soul of reason (which you are). TfL take this kind of thing seriously. You might not get any satisfaction, but TfL will make the bus company sweat, and the bus company will probably make the drivers sweat. And that's not bad for the rest of us.


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## BentMikey (9 May 2010)

TC, please do claim for the wheel - that's the best way to bring home the fault of that collision to the bus driver. You'll be doing everyone else who cycles in London a favour - that sort of thing gets around and makes sure that bus drivers behave around us.


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## hackbike 666 (9 May 2010)

Tinuts said:


> Sometimes it just doesn't work like that. I've certainly woken up the next day thinking I should have pursued a more, er, *robust* course of action.



Fair enough....point being...and this applies to work is they want us to get a report in as soon as possible after the incident.

So what about that crap driving of that Leyton bus garage bus which is posted on Utube would it have been worth making up a disk and dropping it off at the garage?


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## swee'pea99 (9 May 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> If a bus shunted you I would have thought it was the bus's fault.


As I understand it, the law is absolutely clear on this. Unless you were going in reverse when hit, it was their fault. Period. My dad shunted a car parked where it shouldn't have been on a bridge once. No defense. You have to be able to stop, whatever happens in front. If you can't, then you haven't left an adequate gap and/or weren't paying attention.

It's disgraceful that the cops seem to have been unaware of this. Complain. Two bus drivers and two cops need a good talking to.

(D'oh...came late, failed to notice all the intervening action - still, I stand by it.)


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## Globalti (10 May 2010)

Er... a single solitary word in support of bus drivers here? The problem with buses is that they tend to be full of people, some of whom may be standing up and walking around at some times. Bus drivers are taught that their primary responsibility is for the safety of their passengers and if it's a choice between braking sharply and causing a passenger to fall and injure themselves or braking gently and letting the bodywork collect a dent, the bodywork gets it first. Bus drivers have to deal with some unbelievable scum, nasty, rude arrogant people who swear at them, argue about fares, vandalise their buses and even threaten them with violence. I know this because I know two bus drivers both of whom hate their jobs and can't wait to retire. Both are careful and professional drivers who make every effort to give their passengers a smooth ride. 

If it just happened that the OP stopped a little abruptly in front of a bus I can understand why the driver may have judged it a bit fine and ended up contacting the OP's rear wheel. Not an excuse because the bus was probably following too close but if ever bus gave every cyclist masses of spare room I suspect they wouldn't make much forward progress. 

Just my ha'p'orth in the interest of my pals.


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## summerdays (10 May 2010)

Globalti said:


> Er... a single solitary word in support of bus drivers here? The problem with buses is that they tend to be full of people, some of whom may be standing up and walking around at some times. Bus drivers are taught that their primary responsibility is for the safety of their passengers and if it's a choice between braking sharply and causing a passenger to fall and injure themselves or braking gently and letting the bodywork collect a dent, the bodywork gets it first. Bus drivers have to deal with some unbelievable scum, nasty, rude arrogant people who swear at them, argue about fares, vandalise their buses and even threaten them with violence. I know this because I know two bus drivers both of whom hate their jobs and can't wait to retire. Both are careful and professional drivers who make every effort to give their passengers a smooth ride.
> 
> If it just happened that the OP stopped a little abruptly in front of a bus I can understand why the driver may have judged it a bit fine and ended up contacting the OP's rear wheel. Not an excuse because the bus was probably following too close but if ever bus gave every cyclist masses of spare room I suspect they wouldn't make much forward progress.
> 
> Just my ha'p'orth in the interest of my pals.



But if the bus driver did that explained and then asked in a concerned way about the cyclist ... and passed on their contact/insurance details that would be fine... They DIDN'T


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## BentMikey (10 May 2010)

@Globalti, I suggest you read the OP again - there's very little doubt it's purely the bus driver's fault for following far too closely.


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## swee'pea99 (10 May 2010)

summerdays said:


> But if the bus driver did that explained and then asked in a concerned way about the cyclist ... and passed on their contact/insurance details that would be fine... They DIDN'T



Hate to be a hard-liner here, but it wouldn't. It would be better, but it wouldn't be fine. And while I have every sympathy for bus drivers, and recognise their skill in giving their passengers a smooth ride, the fact remains that if one drives into the back of another road user, it's their fault, and no, it's not fine, whatever they then go on to do. They compounded the original sin in this case, but it's the original sin that's most important. Competent professional drivers - any competent drivers for that matter - don't hit people. End of.


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## summerdays (10 May 2010)

Sorry I meant that it would go some way to explaining why ...and I also should have written it the other way around so that the driver was first concerned about the cyclists and then explained why they had made that difficult decision ... after they had seen the little old lady standing up in the bus of course.


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## hackbike 666 (10 May 2010)

Yes I can appreciate that a bus drivers job is not a happy lot sometimes...that's why I didn't want to become a bus driver....get enough of this crap in my job.Not as much as a bus driver obviously.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (13 Aug 2010)

*** UPDATE ***​​​

Wrote to the bus company and claimed £70 odd for the wheel – got a call from their insurance department to say they had received the claim and then heard nothing for a couple of months. 



In the end I called them and spoke to the claims handler, who was pretty adamant the accident was my fault - quote “because the bus driver and the witness (another bus driver) said it was your fault.”



There then followed a rather lengthy exchange during which I was assured the accident was defiantly my fault because i “slowed down rather quickly and didn’t give the bus driver a chance – and I think you’ll find, in a court of law, the judge will side with us…” to which I begged to differ; “So if I hit a pot hole and fell off, stopping suddenly, and one of your drivers was following me so close behind that they couldn’t stop and ran over me, that would be my fault as well would it?”



Claims bloke said that wasn’t what he had said and remained adamant that if a bus went into the back of a cyclist it would, in the eyes of a court, be seen as the cyclist’s fault. So I said I’d like to go up in front of a judge and let him/her decide the matter. Claims bloke replied that the cheque would be in the post that afternoon – “even though the “accident” was your fault” - lol



Can’t help but think that London Buses/Transdev are a load of self-gratification artists based on my experience…


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## Ben M (13 Aug 2010)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> *** UPDATE ***​



What a bunch of tools, glad to hear that you stuck up for yourself and got what you deserved by way of remuneration.


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## BSRU (13 Aug 2010)

He was so adamant he was right he gave you a cheque anyway. He knows he hasn't a hope in hell in court, he was obviously hoping you were a bit thick and would believe him.


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## Davywalnuts (13 Aug 2010)

BSRU said:


> He was so adamant he was right he gave you a cheque anyway. He knows he hasn't a hope in hell in court, he was obviously hoping you were a bit thick and would believe him.



+1. Gets me soo annoyed they think they can talk to us like that when they know they are in the wrong.

Well done for seeing it through!


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## iendicott (13 Aug 2010)

What a complete crock of sh#t.. If someone slams into the back of you it's there fault for following to close and not paying attention... rules are rules, also I thought you had to have 2 independent witnesses to back up a claim, not to mates who work for the same company.

A lady at work was walking down the road last year and the mirror of the bus which sticks out by at least a foot cliiped her quite hard and left a bruse whilst she was on the path, the bus company didn't want to know. 

Now where is that smilie for wa#nk#r....


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2010)

Bank the cheque and write a really snotty letter to them !

If their claims person was being professional, he'd say they are sending you a cheque for the damage, but that is not an admission of liability. Simples...........


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## benb (13 Aug 2010)

Scum


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## BentMikey (13 Aug 2010)

Well done for forcing them to pay up and acknowledge their liability. Twunts.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (13 Aug 2010)

fossyant said:


> Bank the cheque and write a really snotty letter to them !
> 
> If their claims person was being professional, he'd say they are sending you a cheque for the damage, but that is not an admission of liability. Simples...........



Your right – but it’s a funny old world – seen this a lot in much bigger and far more serious cases – where a huge amount of damages are paid without the party paying accepting any liability for their actions – would accepting a payment in such circumstances void any further claim by the injured party? – or is it simply a case of the payee paying up to avoid more potentially damaging and costly action against them? 





I see it as a tacit acceptance of guilt myself…


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## BentMikey (13 Aug 2010)

It's not so much an acceptance of guilt as an acknowledgement that £70 is a lot cheaper than having to go to the effort of fighting it in court.


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## Riding in Circles (13 Aug 2010)

Bank the cheque and get on with life, you won and the driver has no doubt had a bollocking.


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## Bollo (13 Aug 2010)

One of my favourite topics - yer insurance companies. Remember that insurance has nothing really to do with right and wrong. When an incident occurs, their only interest is minimising their losses. Somewhere at the insurance company they'll be a spreadsheet that balances the total cost of different courses of action. So for example, the cost of turning up to the small claims court might be more than £70, so try and spend five minutes trying to scare the claimant (cost negligible) and then pay up. For my claim (£3000 in total) I was accused of reckless cycling (offer = nil) , then lack of observation (offer = £1000, 50/50 responsibility) and then not wearing a helmet and hi-viz (contributory negligence, offer = £2000). At each point, you could almost hear them tap in the numbers to calculate what to do next. If they thought it would help save money, I'm sure they'd finger me for 9/11 and the Rape of Nanking.

I effectively did the same thing as Twickers (through a solicitor as the numbers were over the small claims limit) and invited them to court so the magistrate could view the footage. Costs of proper court vs chance of winning vs £3000, the spreadsheet turns red and they pay up.

Although right and wrong are secondary in all this, evidence is key. Strong evidence (in my case having a video) tips the probability of winning a case towards you, which in turn sets the ceiling where the insurance will decide to fight or pay. Evidence the other way, like the colluding drivers in this case, makes the insurance a little more bullish. It doesn't matter that this evidence is BS - it's mud to sling.


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## nasserblue (13 Aug 2010)

Just to add to what others have said.

Please please please report this. The bus companies, in my very limited experience, are very good about chasing this up. Both drivers need to be "educated".


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## BentMikey (13 Aug 2010)

nasserblue said:


> Just to add to what others have said.
> 
> Please please please report this. The bus companies, in my very limited experience, are very good about chasing this up. Both drivers need to be "educated".



*cough* You might like to read the latest post from the OP.


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## nasserblue (13 Aug 2010)

Well now I've got to the end of the thread I can see there was a an ending. 

And now I've read a bit more I've edited my reply.

That's the problem it's a lot of hassle for £70. On the other hand that is the cost of a new wheel. And although the insurance company were arses, we hope the bus drivers will drive a bit more considerately next time.


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## ufkacbln (13 Aug 2010)

The problem with injuries is that they can be painful at the time, but prove to be nothing later.

If you had perhaps jarred your thumb, twisted your ankle etc then the PCSOs would have had an injury accident and been forced to take action, including formal statements


If the injury proved to be better or worse later then it is hardly your fault


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## Peter10 (13 Aug 2010)

I would have made an official complaint about the driver to TFL. If there was damage to your bike, you could request for TFL (or whoever runs the buses) to pay the damage for repairs, or if they refuse, take the driver to county court.

What I will add, is that PCSO's don't get involved with traffic at all (unless a traffic PCSO) so generally can't always give you the best reply, Not their fault, it's like asking someone to jump out of a plane who hasn't been trained to do it, however these ones seemed to be spot on with how the dealt with it. If it ever happens again and you want to take it further request that they ask for a police officer to attend.

From what you have described, It was the bus drivers fault. If you had stopped in an emergency (i.e a kid ran out into the road) any vehicle behind you should be a safe distance behind you to stop safely also. The bus was too close to you for the driver to react to your action. I notice this with buses a lot when they are so anxious to pass they get right up behind you. What is worrying, is if you fell off your bike, it may not have been the back of the bike they hit but rather you.



Jezston said:


> Ask any experienced policeman what they think of PCSOs - off the record of course.
> 
> They will tell you they are ****ing useless and at best a liability.
> 
> They are basically 'cub scout' police - not competent enough to be real police, and no career path. Although ones in the Met get 28k, which is more than I earn



As for this statement, you are totally ignorant. You obviously don't know what you are speaking about, so don't. As a "proper copper" I can tell you first hand, they are far more than what you say. It is people like yourself who are the liability I'm afraid. Grow up.


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## Jezston (15 Aug 2010)

I was just echoing the sentiment of a couple of police friends of mine, don't have a go at me.


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