# Scorpion questions



## davidwalton (24 Sep 2007)

Hi,

Looking to buy a Scorpion FX next year. However, the question of gearing has come up.

What gearing range would be needed to cover hills and high speed touring?

Is 16" gearing low enough?

The Scorpion comes with gearing not that wide, but with a Schlumpf High Speed Drive 29T and 34-11 cassette, can get a range of 16.55" to 127.86".

Main thing is the hills. Trikes are not easy to push, so need to be able to keep turning on the pedals.

Thanks.

David


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## Andy in Sig (24 Sep 2007)

Rohloff plus Schlumpf should equal triking heaven.


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## davidwalton (24 Sep 2007)

Yes, but not advised.

*"Can I combine high-speed-drive with the Rohloff-Speedhub 14-speed internal hub?"*
No. Rohloff limits the minimal size of the chainwheel to 36t.


Taken from FAQ at http://www.schlumpf.ch/hsd_engl.htm


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## squeaker (25 Sep 2007)

My Trice 'S' has ~18" to 91": <never> use lowest gear (but don't tour with heavy loads), and above 25mile/hr I stop pedalling and admire the view


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## davidwalton (25 Sep 2007)

Living in South Essex, it isn't *TOO *hilly here, but there are journeys I would be making regularly that take me further afield that do require hill climbing.

Basically, need to assume hills, as well as distance touring with loads. Although main load will be me, my French Horn, and Concert cloths, plus normal overnight essentials.

I also want to be able to keep up in a Cycle club rides where average speeds are near to 20MPH.

This is why I am looking at the Schlumpf High Speed Drive and asking the questions. Need it *ALL*

I have also been speaking to Recumbent Dealers and asking them. Seems that most are in favour of the Schlumpf High Speed Drive, although one UK manufacturer I spoke to didn't like them, but I think that was due to where he lived and the type of constant up and down hill riding in his area. The large shift factor of 2.5 didn't fit his style.

At the end of the day, I know it comes down to preferences. Just trying to narrow the field of play in the hope I get it right the first time.

I have already put back in the possibility of a Trice Q trike as an alternative to the Scorpion. Would like to hear from those with experience of both as to which may be the better.


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## squeaker (26 Sep 2007)

*Speed?*



davidwalton said:


> I also want to be able to keep up in a Cycle club rides where average speeds are near to 20MPH.


Erm, hope you are really fit then. IMHO Scorpion is more of a touring than a fast trike (e.g. Windchettah, Catrike 700, Trice Monster): suggest you wander over to the BHPC forum and have a chat with the guys there on what is, and is not, a realistic average speed on a trike.
FWIW I find that my speed (cruise and average) is about 10% lower on my Trice 'S' than on my Grasshopper, when carrying similar amounts.
YMMV, of course


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## davidwalton (26 Sep 2007)

squeaker said:


> Erm, hope you are really fit then. IMHO Scorpion is more of a touring than a fast trike (e.g. Windchettah, Catrike 700, Trice Monster): suggest you wander over to the BHPC forum and have a chat with the guys there on what is, and is not, a realistic average speed on a trike.
> FWIW I find that my speed (cruise and average) is about 10% lower on my Trice 'S' than on my Grasshopper, when carrying similar amounts.
> YMMV, of course



With standard gearing, I agree that to average close to 20mph would be only for the very fit.

I used to average over 20mph on a standard bike at a distance of just under 20 miles. If I am 10% slower on a trike, then 18mph will be OK. Don't forget, no big hills here generally.

Based on the gearing I am looking at, 70rpm = 24.79mph. However, I seem happiest turning at between 75 to 80 rpm. I would therefore have thought that 18mph plus average was achievable. If not, then no Club rides.

I know racing trikes average around 24mph over a race distance.

BTW- Club rides would not be loaded.


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## Andy in Sig (27 Sep 2007)

It might be worth knowing that HPV were showing two versions of the Scorpion at the last but one Friedrichshafen bike show; one was the fully kitted up touring version and the other was a stripped down one. I don't know if it was intended for racing but it was certainly meant to go faster than the tourer. It might be worth contacting HPV to see what their recommendations are. If you're prepared to remove and put on the luggage rack, mudguards and change wheels you could effectively be getting two trikes for the price of one.


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## davidwalton (27 Sep 2007)

Andy in Sig said:


> It might be worth knowing that HPV were showing two versions of the Scorpion at the last but one Friedrichshafen bike show; one was the fully kitted up touring version and the other was a stripped down one. I don't know if it was intended for racing but it was certainly meant to go faster than the tourer. It might be worth contacting HPV to see what their recommendations are. If you're prepared to remove and put on the luggage rack, mudguards and change wheels you could effectively be getting two trikes for the price of one.




Hi, 

Yes, there is the Scorpion and the Scorpion FX. Basically the same with a few changes to enable the FX to fold up etc. FX is more upright and higher seat. The FX is also £140 more.

I was looking for the FX, but think the non FX will probably be better overall, and only loading up when needed. Things like racks are quick to fit and take off. Tyres and wheels are not expensive, so very feasible to have 2 sets.

The way I am looking at it is if I am going to spend £2,500.00 plus just on the Trike, then I may as well spend the money needed to cover everything I need. I also costed out all the other bits, cloths, tools, lights, locks, etc at a further £500.


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## squeaker (28 Sep 2007)

A browse around BROL might also be useful, as I think several members have Scorpions.


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## Andy in Sig (28 Sep 2007)

David,

Agreed about the FX but the trikes I'm on about were on display about a year before the FX was announced. I had a chat with the bloke from HPV and he made it clear that it was possible to make two versions of the Scorpion; the faster one being created essentially by removing the touring rack and mudguards and changing down to narrower wheels and tyres. The weight savngs were significant. The FX is, of course, essentially another model.


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## davidwalton (28 Sep 2007)

Hi Andy,

As my research only started this last month or so, I have only been looking at current models. On http://www.hpvelotechnik.com, only the Scorpion and FX are listed for Trikes, so not sure about anything that was there a year or more ago.

However, my understanding was that the Scorpion was there first real Trike, so could have been a Work in Progress at that time.

Just think, if I didn't spend £3,500 on a Horn earlier this year, I could have a really nice trike by now. Horn works very well though, so was worth it.


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## Andy in Sig (28 Sep 2007)

Sorry, I'm not expressing myself clearly. When you see the Scorpion as advertised it is the standard model. You are probably aware of HPV's sheet which lists the other options (e.g. gear systems, dynamos etc) and the prices they come in at. The idea shown at the show was that you can get the Scorpion in a number of configurations according to your wishes. The two extremes of the same trike were shown. One was as near as you could get it to being a racing machine and the other was a comfort-is-everything touring variant complete with balloon tyres. They don't offer either of these extremes as the start model; what you get is up to you.


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## davidwalton (28 Sep 2007)

OK, got it 

Buy the trike, and then the extras to fit both requirements.


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## davidwalton (3 Oct 2007)

Well, it seems that unless you do buy a trike designed for speed, just speed, you do go much slower than on 2 wheels. From what I can gather, it seems that I could expect 12mph to 16mph speed on a good trike, average.

Unfortunately that is no good for me, as my intention is to use the purchase for my main form of transport. I must be able to achieve at least 15mph, and up to 20mph plus average on shorter trips.

5mph'ish more doesn't sound huge, but it makes the difference of some trips being reasonable to get to in time, or not.

Looks like my requirements dictate 2 wheel bent, rather than 3.

At least 2 wheels are cheaper, so can have all the bells and whistles for the same price, eg. DT Shocks, front fairing, brake and gear upgrades, with something like the Street Machine.


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## Andy in Sig (3 Oct 2007)

I've got the Street Machine and recommend it without hesitation. It's not the lightest thing around but it will certainly meet your speed requirements. And it also has the big advantage that if you ever want to do some full blown touring, it is designed exactly for that.


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## davidwalton (3 Oct 2007)

Andy in Sig said:


> I've got the Street Machine and recommend it without hesitation. It's not the lightest thing around but it will certainly meet your speed requirements. And it also has the big advantage that if you ever want to do some full blown touring, it is designed exactly for that.



Lightest isn't always best, especially if you need to carry any sort of weight. Rather have something a little heavier that can cope easily than making something fit what I require, but not designed for.


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## foggy (15 Jan 2009)

i have the scorpion it has the skinny tyres mudguards rear rack in fact it is the first scorpion that was imported by kinetics and boy does it go i have used it for touring and camping i also tow a two seater childs trailer loaded with 3 peoples camping gear it has a three speed hub combined with an 8 speed cassett twin disc brakesa hard shell seat to which i fitted a head rest try kinetics for info on the hpv recumbents it is made in aircraft grade aluminium


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## arallsopp (27 Jan 2009)

Lol. Welcome Foggy. TBH, if DavidWalton was planning to buy one next year, and next year was actually last year, chances are he's either bought, or not spending.
Annoyingly, the slide against the Euro means these things rocketed in price recently. 

Glad to hear you're getting on well with the Scorpion though. Looks to be a lovely piece of kit, and I love my SMGTe. Very envious of your locale though. Nice and flat out there. My legs + spending habits + Kent dictate a lighter steed.


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## foggy (17 Mar 2009)

*flat norfolk*

If you want flat go to lincolnshire not norfolk i can take you to norfolk flat hills that will have you on your knees
foggy


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