# Understanding heart rates



## david k (28 Oct 2012)

I had a ride this morning, not particularly quick, just an easy 23 miles ride down the local cycle tracks.

I used my HRM, I've no idea what to make of the results of these, my garmin connect tells me I averaged 68% of my maximum and maxed at 80% of my maximum, what does this mean? What should I aim for?


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## xxmimixx (28 Oct 2012)

Heart rates is just a way of looking at how you train. I used to wear a HRM when I first started training as I didnt know how much effort I was putting in the exercise. After a few months I started to predict my HR and understanding my body better to point where now I dont use it anymore as I am able to tell by myself if I am working hard or not.

The different rates or zones tell you what part of your system your are using, so for example if you are looking at weight loss then you would look at working at an aerobic zone this is generally 70 to 80% of your max rate. On the other hand if you want to train for strength then you would work out in anaerobic zones 80 to 90% of your max rate. You would not usually train at a higher rate than 90% for prolonged periods.


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

i seem to average 70% ish and im looking to get fit, lose a little weight but mainly enjoy cycling. understanding hrm and other things just adds a bit of knowledge and enjoyment to the rude, and something else to look at afterwards!
thanks


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

HRMs are a good way to measure your progress as well. Averages over the same or similar rides can be compared. I also use that to tailor my training.. If I'm higher than I know I should be then I know I've not recovered properly so work in an easy week.


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

im always a little skeptical over my heart rate. I take levothyroine for an underactive thyroid, it directly affects my heart rate, saying that ive been on a steady amount for some time now so my heart rate should be quite regular so comparing rides should be accurate, ill start looking at that when i have enough data to consider
my heart rate seems to average around 120 bpm. i have noticed if i train very hard and push my heart rate right up even if the ride is short it really tires me out and can take some time to recover


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

david k said:


> I had a ride this morning, not particularly quick, just an easy 23 miles ride down the local cycle tracks.
> 
> I used my HRM, I've no idea what to make of the results of these, my garmin connect tells me I averaged 68% of my maximum and maxed at 80% of my maximum, what does this mean? What should I aim for?


 
unless you know:

a) your true max HR and
b) why you are riding at whatever % you are riding at

then none of it will mean anything - it's just numbers on a screen. As for what you should aim for - that would depend on what your training goals are. And if you don't actually have any training goals, then leave the HRM at home and just enjoy the ride.


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## MrJamie (28 Oct 2012)

Genuine question... how much do max heart rates vary? I know people say not to use the 220-age formula, but how far out is it likely to be, wildy or just a bit inaccurate?


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

MrJamie said:


> Genuine question... how much do max heart rates vary? I know people say not to use the 220-age formula, but how far out is it likely to be, wildy or just a bit inaccurate?


 
In my case, the 220-age calculation is 15bpm below the figure I'm currently using (which is the highest number I've seen on my HRM during a MHR test). MHR varies between individuals at any age. In some cases, it's possible that the 220-age number could be spot on, but the potential variance is too wide just to assume - which is why if you are serious about HR training, you will test your own MHR, rather than use the 220 number.


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

how do you test your true MHR?


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

david k said:


> how do you test your true MHR?



Trying to murder yourself on a long hill isn't a bad place to start.


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

mine is down as 190 i think, not sure why, the 220 formula makes me a 181


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

I've seen mine at 189, I felt like it could have gone a little more though. The 'rule' puts me at 182. Good friend of mine regularly goes into the 190's and he's 50'something.


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

this suggests im about 180 also


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

Just checked and my highest recorded is 170

presuming my MHR to be 180, what should i aim to ride at?
Mainly for leisure
Also for fitness and a bit of weight loss
And as always to get better, but im no obsessive about it


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

david k said:


> http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm
> 
> this suggests im about 180 also


 
those formulas suggest that my MHR is between 7 - 20bpm lower than it actually is. What makes you think it will be any more accurate in your case?

If you ride mainly for leisure/fitness/weight loss and you are 'not obsessive' then you don't need to wear an HRM.


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> those formulas suggest that my MHR is between 7 - 20bpm lower than it actually is. What makes you think it will be any more accurate in your case?
> 
> *If you ride mainly for leisure/fitness/weight loss and you are 'not obsessive' then you don't need to wear an HRM.*



If you're riding for fitness/weightloss it can be a huge motivation to track your progress, particularly with strava. It's helped me loose all my weight this last year.


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

you may be right - but that's not to say you wouldn't have lost the weight without the HRM though..


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> you may be right - but that's not to say you wouldn't have lost the weight without the HRM though..



I'm not saying it lost me the weight, but I am saying, for me at least, that being able to see my average HR coming down over the months got me through quite a few 'brick wall' moments


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

monitoring is a very good motivational tool in my experience. Using a HRM is just another tool, not essential but adds a little mor einterest than just looking at miles and time

That MHR may not be accurate but i guess its good enough guide for my needs. If i wanted one more accurate how would i go about it?


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

david k said:


> monitoring is a very good motivational tool in my experience. Using a HRM is just another tool, not essential but adds a little mor einterest than just looking at miles and time
> 
> That MHR may not be accurate but i guess its good enough guide for my needs. If i wanted one more accurate how would i go about it?



http://www.cycling-inform.com/heart-rate-training/72-how-to-test-for-your-cycling-max-heart-rate

This is quite a good article, but be careful doing it. Always worries me the thought of doing this alone!


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## david k (28 Oct 2012)

MattHB said:


> http://www.cycling-inform.com/heart-rate-training/72-how-to-test-for-your-cycling-max-heart-rate
> 
> This is quite a good article, but be careful doing it. Always worries me the thought of doing this alone!


that sounds good, i could do that quite easily to work it out.


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## Andrew_P (28 Oct 2012)

I do not know why, but always makes me nervous people advising someone they do not know nor know any medical history, general fitness etc to take their body to its absoulte 100% max. Doctors using full on medical equipment 12 leads etc when doing a general heart stress test will not take you to 100%...


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## MattHB (28 Oct 2012)

LOCO said:


> I do not know why, but always makes me nervous people advising someone they do not know nor know any medical history, general fitness etc to take their body to its absoulte 100% max. Doctors using full on medical equipment 12 leads etc when doing a general heart stress test will not take you to 100%...



I don't see anyone advising anyone. I see people answering the OP's questions.


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## ayceejay (28 Oct 2012)

You should not ignore your thyroid problem, the medication and any side effects that may occur, this means that your heart rate training will not be 'off the peg'. Another thing, and I don't want you to feel inadequate about your 800 mies again, but that mileage would probably be a minimum of _base miles _before you consider anything more advanced.


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## Rob3rt (28 Oct 2012)

ayceejay said:


> You should not ignore your thyroid problem, the medication and any side effects that may occur, this means that your heart rate training will not be 'off the peg'. *Another thing, and I don't want you to feel inadequate about your 800 mies again, but that mileage would probably be a minimum of base miles before you consider anything more advanced.*


 
I agree, people are way to keen to advance to high intensity training without building a proper base 1st. Ride a few thousand steady base miles then start thinking about "training".

Nothing wrong with monitoring HR on base miles though.


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

LOCO said:


> I do not know why, but always makes me nervous people advising someone they do not know nor know any medical history, general fitness etc to take their body to its absoulte 100% max. Doctors using full on medical equipment 12 leads etc when doing a general heart stress test will not take you to 100%...


 
That's rubbish. Athletes in all kinds of sports at all levels regularly hit their MHR as a matter of course. It goes without saying that if you have a heart condition or are otherwise untrained, then you might want to seek a medical opinion first.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (28 Oct 2012)

I've used a HR monitor for 3000 miles or so and have noticed big changes over time.

My HR and breathing rate used to max out together ... i couldn't get enough air in and my heart would be clocking 170+
Now my heart can be 170+ without gasping for air = my lungs have obviously become more efficient at absorbing the available
oxygen in every breath. (I also do not "notice" my heart is racing, due to the fact i'm not gasping anymore).
My first-thing-in-the-morning heart rate has decreased from 70 waaay down to 52 = heart is more efficient.

Sometimes i'll put in a fast 30 miler (average HR 160-170) and see a raised resting HR the next day, if this is the case i won't
go out on the bike. (Listen to your body).

I agree with the comment of putting a couple of thousand base miles in first, i've done this and have only just (this weekend) fitted
clipless pedals to my three bikes, because i now feel i'm ready to start racing.


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## Andrew_P (28 Oct 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> That's rubbish. Athletes in all kinds of sports at all levels regularly hit their MHR as a matter of course. *It goes without saying that if you have a heart condition or are otherwise untrained, then you might want to seek a medical opinion first*.


Which part is rubbish? A heart stress test done for medical reasons will not take you to 100%? To tell someone on meds for an under active thyroid and 800 miles in 10 months under his belt to max out his heart rate is sound advice?

Just to let you know I agree with you (bold), and that was exactly what I meant, and yours was the first post with that in it...


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## black'n'yellow (28 Oct 2012)

LOCO said:


> Which part is rubbish? A heart stress test done for medical reasons will not take you to 100%? To tell someone on meds for an under active thyroid and 800 miles in 10 months under his belt to max out his heart rate is sound advice?
> 
> Just to let you know I agree with you (bold), and that was exactly what I meant, and yours was the first post with that in it...


 
Providing you are generally healthy, there is no inherent danger in 'maxing out' your HR, regardless of your actual level of fitness. An untrained, but otherwise healthy commuter could max out their HR while running for a bus, or running up several flights of stairs, so I don't see a particular issue in trying it after 'only' 800 miles of riding - he's probably done it already.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (28 Oct 2012)

I think i've read that maxxing your heart out over seriously long periods of time can cause micro-tears in the heart muscle (rather much like
what goes on in your leg muscles). Too many of these tears can turn into scar tissue which doesn't move the same way as normal heart muscle.

I wouldn't worry as our inbuilt systems soon kick in and say "whoaaa" if you're overdoing it.

On the other hand, someone popping pills to cheat in a race would override things.......


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## MrJamie (30 Oct 2012)

I just got a Garmin Forerunner (watch), because my smartphone battery isnt really up to longer runs/rides which also means I can track heartrate properly. I tried it on a run today and it said my average heart rate over one hour was 178bpm and peak at 194 as I sprinted the last 50 metres which I think is near to max HR, that's on a fairly typical training run. It's got me wondering if it might be too high and doing me damage rather than improving my fitness though. 

I haven't tried it cycling yet, but I guess the science is the roughly the same.


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## david k (30 Oct 2012)

thanks everyone, very interesting reading all the comments
i enjoy using the hrm as an extra bit of data to look at, if it means anything at all, if i can make sense of it etc. then all the better, if not it doesnt stop me enjoying my ride so i will continue, maybe in 12 months time i can see if theres been any significant difference


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## jdtate101 (30 Oct 2012)

I remember doing a MHR test when I was a young rower on an ergo, promptly threw up at the end and felt dreadful for at least a day after. MHR tests are a cruel torture device cooked up by heartless sports quacks.


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## Enw.nigel (5 Nov 2012)

I,ve recently bought a second hand Garmin 305 with the intention of improving my fitness by monitoring my training zones. However, I am having problems accepting my MHR of 222. My resting heart rate over 3 measurements has been 51, 52 and 53 which seems quite acceptable. My MHR over 4 rides has been 222, 211, 206 and 214 which seems extremely high. Average BPM,s have been 145, 143, 139, and 142. These rides were 3x30miles and one of 24 miles.
My age is 63 so using any formulae my MHR should be between 159-166. I have been cycling for decades so have a reasonable level of cycling fitness. Now to my question is - how tight should I have the transmitter strapped around my body. Is there a too tight or too loose fitting which could affect the MHR reading? I have replaced the battery in case that was the problem but I am still getting 200BPM plus.
I cannot work on training zones until I verify my MHR.
Any suggestions besides a visit to the doctor in case these readings are accurate. I've succeeded in worrying myself now.


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## Arsen Gere (5 Nov 2012)

The tightness is not that important as long as it does not drop down. It should sit under your chest muscles on your ribs with good contact. ie not too hairy. If you make the contacts on the strip damp, sweat or spit will do, you should get good results. To me 222 for a 63 year old sounds way too high. Also this cold weather can reduce the sensitivity of these things.
What I would do is try and warm up for 10 to 15 minutes and keep an eye on what it says. Look for it responding to load. So that when you start to get out of breath see that it goes up in small amounts as you start to increase your effort. If it skips about it's down to the cold, the contact etc.If you can control it so you can make it go up and down at will then I'd say it was telling the truth.
FWIW at 52 my max is around 164, determined on a hill run not a bike.


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## Arsen Gere (5 Nov 2012)

One other point a lot of modern literature talks about working heart rate based on the point you start to go lactic or V02 Max rather than HR max. I have no strong opinion on this.


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## Enw.nigel (5 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the reply Arsen Gere. I always wet the contacts with saliva. My positioning though is under the rib cage as I couldn't get a reading over the ribcage. Will try again tomorrow with the positioning as you suggest. Before I hit the hill where my reading goes 200+ I have warmed up with about 40 mins of undulating cycling.
Going to try a 3 hill route tomorrow to test my MHR reading further and will check that the reading is increasing by small increments.


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## black'n'yellow (5 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Thanks for the reply Arsen Gere. I always wet the contacts with saliva. My positioning though is under the rib cage as I couldn't get a reading over the ribcage. Will try again tomorrow with the positioning as you suggest. Before I hit the hill where my reading goes 200+ I have warmed up with about 40 mins of undulating cycling.
> Going to try a 3 hill route tomorrow to test my MHR reading further and will check that the reading is increasing by small increments.


 
'under the rib cage' is pretty much around your stomach - which is (as any medical student will tell you) not where your heart is.


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## MrJamie (5 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Thanks for the reply Arsen Gere. I always wet the contacts with saliva. My positioning though is under the rib cage as I couldn't get a reading over the ribcage. Will try again tomorrow with the positioning as you suggest. Before I hit the hill where my reading goes 200+ I have warmed up with about 40 mins of undulating cycling.
> Going to try a 3 hill route tomorrow to test my MHR reading further and will check that the reading is increasing by small increments.


Is it getting to over 200 smoothly and taking a little while to drop back down after, or is your HR graph on garmin connect very spikey/jagged?


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## black'n'yellow (6 Nov 2012)

MrJamie said:


> Is it getting to over 200 smoothly and taking a little while to drop back down after, or is your HR graph on garmin connect very spikey/jagged?


 
he is wearing his HRM strap around his gut - any further discussion on erroneous readings is pointless until he wears it correctly.


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## Rob3rt (6 Nov 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> he is wearing his HRM strap around his gut - any further dicsussion on erroneous readings is pointless until he wears it correctly.


 
I wonder what would cause the highest increase in value, a beef burger or soup!


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## Rob3rt (6 Nov 2012)

Sweetcorn = spike then flatline! Gut says NO!


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## MrJamie (6 Nov 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> he is wearing his HRM strap around his gut - any further dicsussion on erroneous readings is pointless until he wears it correctly.


 I have a feeling he means just under his sternum rather than below his ribcage around his waist, but we'll have to wait and see.  My Garmin HRM just stops if its positioned too high or low.


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2012)

If you are having troubles getting a steady reading try wearing it back to front - strap just under the pecs and transmitter across your back


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## Arsen Gere (6 Nov 2012)

psmiffy said:


> If you are having troubles getting a steady reading try wearing it back to front - strap just under the pecs and transmitter across your back


 
Never tried that. But could be good for cold weather where the battery is too cold to operate, even on your skin.


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## Enw.nigel (6 Nov 2012)

Thanks Mr Jamie for your comment on the positioning of the HRM transmitter after the posts that went before you. I raised the transmitter slightly so that it sat directly under my pecs and went out on a 24 miler which I last did on 26th October and have to say the HRM results are remarkably similar. MHR 208 (211 previously) and Average HR 143 on both occasions.
I took Arsen Gere's advice and monitored my HR more closely and this is what I found.
1. Mostly my HR is between 120 - 135 BPM and I can control it so that it rises/drops in single increments.
2. When my legs start working hard my HR reading rises above 140 and then jumps in large increments 140 to 156 to 169 and upwards. There is no smooth transition and continues erratically jumping/dropping by 3,4,5 BPM.
I tried this on different sections of the ride by increasing my HR until it read 139 BPM with no problem at all but as soon as I increased my effort and my HR rose above 140 it would jump straight into the 150's and next into the 160's and 170's.
I assume the contact with my skin is OK because the majority of the time my readings are below 130 BPM which seems OK to me. I am in the same riding position (still in the saddle) when they become erratic above 140 bpm so the contacts must still be working fine.
Is this a transmitter problem, a Garmin 305 problem {I bought both second hand) or is there something else that I am missing?
I have done a reset on the Garmin but that didn't make any difference.
Any other advice please?


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## BSRU (6 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Thanks Mr Jamie for your comment on the positioning of the HRM transmitter after the posts that went before you. I raised the transmitter slightly so that it sat directly under my pecs and went out on a 24 miler which I last did on 26th October and have to say the HRM results are remarkably similar. MHR 208 (211 previously) and Average HR 143 on both occasions.
> I took Arsen Gere's advice and monitored my HR more closely and this is what I found.
> 1. Mostly my HR is between 120 - 135 BPM and I can control it so that it rises/drops in single increments.
> 2. When my legs start working hard my HR reading rises above 140 and then jumps in large increments 140 to 156 to 169 and upwards. There is no smooth transition and continues erratically jumping/dropping by 3,4,5 BPM.
> ...


Is is a new battery in the transmitter?

An interesting thing to watch is how fast it drops when you stop at lights for a minute or three and of course once you finished the ride.


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## MrJamie (6 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Thanks Mr Jamie for your comment on the positioning of the HRM transmitter after the posts that went before you. I raised the transmitter slightly so that it sat directly under my pecs and went out on a 24 miler which I last did on 26th October and have to say the HRM results are remarkably similar. MHR 208 (211 previously) and Average HR 143 on both occasions.
> I took Arsen Gere's advice and monitored my HR more closely and this is what I found.
> 1. Mostly my HR is between 120 - 135 BPM and I can control it so that it rises/drops in single increments.
> 2. When my legs start working hard my HR reading rises above 140 and then jumps in large increments 140 to 156 to 169 and upwards. There is no smooth transition and continues erratically jumping/dropping by 3,4,5 BPM.
> ...


As silly as it sounds your cycling kit could be generating static and messing up the sensor. Its not meant to be that uncommon for runners where a technical shirt rubs against the strap. Maybe do a test run in completely different clothes.


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## Arsen Gere (6 Nov 2012)

Is there anyone else in Swindon who could lend you a device/strap to validate your findings. It could be used to eliminate a faulty strap or device if that is the case. If they both turn out be correct then there are other things to consider but you need to know if it is a device/clothing/positioning fault. There will be a club in your area and I am sure a member would help out. Tri clubs are a good point for contacts too. Is there a local gym/hotel that has bikes with HRM's ?


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## BSRU (6 Nov 2012)

Arsen Gere said:


> Is there anyone else in Swindon who could lend you a device/strap to validate your findings. It could be used to eliminate a faulty strap or device if that is the case. If they both turn out be correct then there are other things to consider but you need to know if it is a device/clothing/positioning fault. There will be a club in your area and I am sure a member would help out. Tri clubs are a good point for contacts too. Is there a local gym/hotel that has bikes with HRM's ?


Do you mean Cardiff?


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## black'n'yellow (6 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Thanks Mr Jamie for your comment on the positioning of the HRM transmitter after the posts that went before you. I raised the transmitter slightly so that it sat directly under my pecs and went out on a 24 miler which I last did on 26th October and have to say the HRM results are remarkably similar. MHR 208 (211 previously) and Average HR 143 on both occasions.
> I took Arsen Gere's advice and monitored my HR more closely and this is what I found.
> 1. Mostly my HR is between 120 - 135 BPM and I can control it so that it rises/drops in single increments.
> 2. When my legs start working hard my HR reading rises above 140 and then jumps in large increments 140 to 156 to 169 and upwards. There is no smooth transition and continues erratically jumping/dropping by 3,4,5 BPM.
> ...


 
Just to be clear - when your HR rises, is there a corresponding increase in your effort level and breathing rate..? If those readings appear to be genuine (ie you are not wearing your chest strap around your waist, or something), then it might be worth booking in for an ECG...


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## Arsen Gere (6 Nov 2012)

BSRU said:


> Do you mean Cardiff?


 
Yes, Cardiff.


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## Enw.nigel (6 Nov 2012)

Cardiff it is. I'll take Mr Jamie's advice and wear a merino baselayer next time out instead of a synthetic one.
A mate of mine who is a marathon runner has a HRM/watch (don't know the make) so I am going to try his out or he can try mine or both and see what the readings are like then.
BSRU - I did put a new battery in the transmitter after the first high reading.
I will also try wearing with the transmitter on my back as has been suggested as well.
I've got to get this sorted as I can't stand it when a function on any appliance is not working as it should do.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Merino base layer next. If still a problem I'll brave the cold mid ride and move the transmitter to my back. Watch this space.


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## Enw.nigel (6 Nov 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> Just to be clear - when your HR rises, is there a corresponding increase in your effort level and breathing rate..? If those readings appear to be genuine (ie you are not wearing your chest strap around your waist, or something), then it might be worth booking in for an ECG...


The chest strap is being worn correctly and yes my heart rate reading becomes erratic above 140 BPM when there is an increase in effort and breathing rate. I would not say that I am breathless though.
If I find my HR is still erratic after swapping HRM's then I will be taking your advice and visit the doctor with a view to an ECG


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## Enw.nigel (6 Nov 2012)

MrJamie said:


> Is it getting to over 200 smoothly and taking a little while to drop back down after, or is your HR graph on garmin connect very spikey/jagged?


It is not getting to 200 smoothly. Nice single increments up to 140 BPM but big jumps after that. Hence my HR graph is spikey/jagged. I'll try and work out how to attach it to a post.


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## Colin S (6 Nov 2012)

Can you get someone else to try it and see it the problem re-occurs. I can't see how this will be a physiological issue as the heart won't jump beating rates so very prob a monitor problem.

Colin


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## black'n'yellow (6 Nov 2012)

Colin S said:


> I can't see how this will be a physiological issue as the heart won't jump beating rates so very prob a monitor problem.
> 
> Colin


 
HRMs do not work like rev counters - they do not track every single beat in real time - which is why it is possible to see big jumps in heart rates.


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> HRMs do not work like rev counters - they do not track every single beat in real time - which is why it is possible to see big jumps in heart rates.


 
rubbish


rev counters do not track every single rev - merely give an average over a short period of time
hrm are the same - typically visual read out every second - recorded every 5 secs or so 
big jumps in heart rate while engaging in relatively steady state exercise do not happen -even at a max all out effort there will be a progressive rise of hrt with a corresponding progressive fall on recovery 
so no big jumps


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## black'n'yellow (6 Nov 2012)

psmiffy said:


> rubbish
> 
> 
> rev counters do not track every single rev - merely give an average over a short period of time
> ...


 
Sorry, it's not rubbish. Tachometers are driven by either a rotating cable or from an ECU pulse, so in effect do give a real time output, not an average. HRM readings are effectively averaged and recalculated every few seconds - within which time it would be quite reasonable for your heart rate to rise - which is also why you will probably never see it rise incrementally..


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## 400bhp (6 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> I,ve recently bought a second hand Garmin 305 with the intention of improving my fitness by monitoring my training zones. However, I am having problems accepting my MHR of 222. My resting heart rate over 3 measurements has been 51, 52 and 53 which seems quite acceptable. My MHR over 4 rides has been 222, 211, 206 and 214 which seems extremely high. Average BPM,s have been 145, 143, 139, and 142. These rides were 3x30miles and one of 24 miles.
> My age is 63 so using any formulae my MHR should be between 159-166. I have been cycling for decades so have a reasonable level of cycling fitness. Now to my question is - how tight should I have the transmitter strapped around my body. Is there a too tight or too loose fitting which could affect the MHR reading? I have replaced the battery in case that was the problem but I am still getting 200BPM plus.
> I cannot work on training zones until I verify my MHR.
> Any suggestions besides a visit to the doctor in case these readings are accurate. I've succeeded in worrying myself now.


 
Did you used to be pretty fit and have got much less fit now?


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## 400bhp (6 Nov 2012)

psmiffy said:


> rubbish
> 
> 
> rev counters do not track every single rev - merely give an average over a short period of time
> ...


 
That's not my understanding and my own experience.

I was extremely fit until my mid 20's. Resting heart rate wad below 45. I then stopped exercising for 5 year's or so and gained a few stone. When I started exercising again I got a personal trainer to observe me running on a treadmill for 20 minutes or so. He didn't know my past history but asked if I had been very fit a few years ago. The reason he asked is because he was seeing large spikes/jumps in heart rates. This is apparently observed in people tat were very fit and let things go so to speak. The heart has a memory and was artificially running low whereas in reality it should have been beating faster given my physical condition. The heart then gets a sudden "shock" and spikes. He did say that it was something that needed keeping an eye on when getting back into fitness.


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> That's not my understanding and my own experience.
> 
> I was extremely fit until my mid 20's. Resting heart rate wad below 45. I then stopped exercising for 5 year's or so and gained a few stone. When I started exercising again I got a personal trainer to observe me running on a treadmill for 20 minutes or so. He didn't know my past history but asked if I had been very fit a few years ago. The reason he asked is because he was seeing large spikes/jumps in heart rates. This is apparently observed in people tat were very fit and let things go so to speak. The heart has a memory and was artificially running low whereas in reality it should have been beating faster given my physical condition. The heart then gets a sudden "shock" and spikes. He did say that it was something that needed keeping an eye on when getting back into fitness.


Fair play - I went to the gym this evening and did my first CV session in something like 3 months - the trace on my computer is smooth and progressive - as opposed to the trace when I fitted the hrm earlier in the evening sitting in my study with god knows how many wireless things around me and an insufficiently wet strap


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## Enw.nigel (7 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> Did you used to be pretty fit and have got much less fit now?


I did the London - Paris bike ride at the end of June so did a lot of training in preparation for that. I had a lazy July/August with 226 and and 152 miles completed respectively but in October back up to 337 miles. I manage 30 milers with no problem and complete my monthly 40 miler without any great difficulty. I don.t think it is my drop in fitness level that is the problem.
I will get to the bottom of this and post my findings here.


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## MrJamie (27 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> I did the London - Paris bike ride at the end of June so did a lot of training in preparation for that. I had a lazy July/August with 226 and and 152 miles completed respectively but in October back up to 337 miles. I manage 30 milers with no problem and complete my monthly 40 miler without any great difficulty. I don.t think it is my drop in fitness level that is the problem.
> I will get to the bottom of this and post my findings here.


Did you figure this out Nigel? 

My HRM was really spikey at the start of my run tonight for about 5 mins then went normal, its been flawless otherwise and same clothes/positioning as normal. I wonder how long the batteries last.


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## Enw.nigel (28 Nov 2012)

I'm still working on it. Garmin support have been very supportive when I explained the problem to them. They sent me a replacement HRM (the premium monitor as well) saying that my standard one must have been faulty. This new HRM showed the same problem above 145bpm. Garmin then sent another HRM strap to try. At the same time I acquired a Garmin Edge 705 so last Sunday I set off with the Garmin 305 and 705 set up alongside each other with the new strap & transmitter and the same problem showed up on both Garmins - rapid increase in BPM above 145BPM. However, the spiking was not as high as previously - only up into the 190's BPM.
This has at least shown that the Garmin was not at fault. I have been looking at http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/04/troubleshooting-your-heart-rate.html The site has a number of suggestions so I am going to give some of them a go tomorrow e,g, completely wash strap, wearing more to the side etc.
I am finding this so frustrating as I cannot determine training zones until I determine my maximum HR. I will report back here after tomorrows attempt.
Thanks for showing an interest Mr Jamie


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## craigwend (28 Nov 2012)




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## Enw.nigel (29 Nov 2012)

Reporting back.
Prior to today's 30 miler i washed the Premium HRM (after unclipping the transmitter) in soapy water and let it dry overnight - even though it is new. I then applied conductive gel and wore it to the left of centre. there was a definite improvement with readings being stable to about 155 BPM but then the spiking started but not as high as before and not as frequent. My ave. BPM was 134 with a max. of 189 BPM. Compare that to a ride over the same route on 4/11 of ave. BPM 142 with a max of 212 BPM (Strava readings). I did stop to make some positional adjustments - further to the left, higher on the chest but with no improvement. Too cold to strip off more than once.
When you think that my max BPM should be between 159 - 166 according to the different formulae (age 63) then there is still inaccuracy in the higher readings so I will carry on experimenting.
Next, back to the standard strap after a careful wash and wear that to the left and see what that brings.


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## Enw.nigel (29 Nov 2012)

Just thought I would attach the Strava graphs for both workouts to show the comparison between the HR over both rides. You can view them in MS Word.
Interesting that there is 268 ft more climbing on the Garmin 705 compared to the 305.


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## VamP (30 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Reporting back.
> Prior to today's 30 miler i washed the Premium HRM (after unclipping the transmitter) in soapy water and let it dry overnight - even though it is new. I then applied conductive gel and wore it to the left of centre. there was a definite improvement with readings being stable to about 155 BPM but then the spiking started but not as high as before and not as frequent. My ave. BPM was 134 with a max. of 189 BPM. Compare that to a ride over the same route on 4/11 of ave. BPM 142 with a max of 212 BPM (Strava readings). I did stop to make some positional adjustments - further to the left, higher on the chest but with no improvement. Too cold to strip off more than once.
> When you think that my max BPM should be between 159 - 166 according to the different formulae (age 63) then there is still inaccuracy in the higher readings so I will carry on experimenting.
> Next, back to the standard strap after a careful wash and wear that to the left and see what that brings.


 

You *might* just have a high revving heart. Seeing as HR based training is all about percentages of either maximum or threshold heart rates, so long as your set-up measures your HR consistently, you should be good to go. I wouldn't spend any time worrying bout what your HRmax ''should'' be.


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## Andrew_P (30 Nov 2012)

I have had blips like that but mine are 100% down to dry body contact points on the strap and wind on a cycling top causing static and always happen at the very start of the ride.. Never get it once a bit of sweat develops, and never get it if I wear a base layer and or jacket.

How are you feeling at 212bpm, are you flat out? Breathing hard etc? 

I assume the strap is on round the right way so you can read word Garmin? (not sure it it would make any difference but the handbook says it should be this way)

Do you up load to Garmin Connect? I find the three charts in a line are better to take a look at, on mine you can clearly see the HR is relative to effort.

Have you done a Heart Rate Recovery self test? See how much your heart rate drops over one and two minutes? I only do it using the charts on Garmin Connect, every now and agin I will go up the hill in the middle of my commute flat out, and coast down the other side or gentle peddle, then pick up the numbers off of Garmin.

Honestly though if you are worried do see your GP.


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## Enw.nigel (30 Nov 2012)

LOCO said:


> How are you feeling at 212bpm, are you flat out? Breathing hard etc?
> I assume the strap is on round the right way so you can read word Garmin? (not sure it it would make any difference but the handbook says it should be this way)
> Have you done a Heart Rate Recovery self test? See how much your heart rate drops over one and two minutes? I only do it using the charts on Garmin Connect, every now and agin I will go up the hill in the middle of my commute flat out, and coast down the other side or gentle peddle, then pick up the numbers off of Garmin.
> Honestly though if you are worried do see your GP.


 
The 212 BPM is an abberration. There is no way my my heart is beating that fast. At all the high spikes I am breathing heavily but could still hold a laboured conversation.
If you look at my attachment on my previous post where I compare my latest ride to an earlier ride you can see the link between heart rate and elevation. You can also see that the drop is quite quick from max. HR back down.
It has to be a contact problem somehow. I am going to try the transmitter WITH the word Garmin upside down as wearing it this way solved the spiking problem for someone (read it on another forum somewhere).
I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.


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## Andrew_P (30 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> The 212 BPM is an abberration. There is no way my my heart is beating that fast. At all the high spikes I am breathing heavily but could still hold a laboured conversation.
> If you look at my attachment on my previous post where I compare my latest ride to an earlier ride you can see the link between heart rate and elevation. You can also see that the drop is quite quick from max. HR back down.
> It has to be a contact problem somehow. I am going to try the transmitter WITH the word Garmin upside down as wearing it this way solved the spiking problem for someone (read it on another forum somewhere).
> I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.


Are you very hairy? Serious question. 



Enw.nigel said:


> Any suggestions besides a visit to the doctor in case these readings are accurate. I've succeeded in worrying myself now.



I only mentioned the GP as one of your posts did indicate that you were getting worried..


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (30 Nov 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.


Are you sure you've got that in the right order?


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## Enw.nigel (20 Dec 2012)

Just to finish my contribution here.
I have tried everything to try to sort out this spiking in my HR - merino top, synthetic top, standard HRM (two), premium HRM (with two different straps), gel, saliva, Garmin 305, Garmin 705, wear to the front, side, back all to no avail.
I was at the doctor's about a skin problem and told him about my concerns with my HR jumping quickly above 145 BPM. He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.
So, it looks like I am stuck with this spiking for whatever reason. I do notice though that it coincides with me putting extra effort on my legs e,g, cresting a hill out of the saddle, the base of a hill before I settle into a rhythm.
I won't throw it away but I'll just have to accept my readings for what they are.


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## Rob3rt (20 Dec 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Just to finish my contribution here.
> I have tried everything to try to sort out this spiking in my HR - merino top, synthetic top, standard HRM (two), premium HRM (with two different straps), gel, saliva, Garmin 305, Garmin 705, wear to the front, side, back all to no avail.
> I was at the doctor's about a skin problem and told him about my concerns with my HR jumping quickly above 145 BPM. He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and* told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.*
> So, it looks like I am stuck with this spiking for whatever reason. I do notice though that it coincides with me putting extra effort on my legs e,g, cresting a hill out of the saddle, the base of a hill before I settle into a rhythm.
> I won't throw it away but I'll just have to accept my readings for what they are.


 
LOL.


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## black'n'yellow (20 Dec 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.


 
I've just asked my mate who is a GP - and he couldn't tell me what a 'ridiculously good' BP is...


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## Arsen Gere (20 Dec 2012)

Enw.nigel said:


> Just to finish my contribution here.
> I was at the doctor's about a skin problem and told him about my concerns with my HR jumping quickly above 145 BPM. He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.
> So, it looks like I am stuck with this spiking for whatever reason. I do notice though that it coincides with me putting extra effort on my legs e,g, cresting a hill out of the saddle, the base of a hill before I settle into a rhythm.
> I won't throw it away but I'll just have to accept my readings for what they are.


 
So what the doc is telling you is go home, there is nothing to worry about, so good news. What I had not said is I have seen an elevated heart rate 200 at 47 years old on someone with a dodgy valve, but hers goes up and stays up and I did not want to worry you. It was not jumping like yours so not the same thing.

If you look at the standard rythm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinus_rhythm you can see the big peak that these HRM's look for , the R-R interval. It may be that as you start to up your effort the P or T peaks increase a bit. With a bit of signal modifcation from other activity like muscles, watches and background stuff it may be that one of these other peaks is getting read as an R when it is a P or T. Hence people suggesting different methods of using the HRM.
Perhaps your heart has some kind of resonace effect where it needs to be pushed over a frequency where it just takes off. Who knows. But as your doc says who cares and I think you are right to just live with it.
Even fit healthy kids have a lot of heart rate variability and it can be sudden http://heart.bmj.com/content/51/2/179.short .


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## Scruffmonster (20 Dec 2012)

If you're that concerned, get a proper test done.


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## Enw.nigel (20 Dec 2012)

black'n'yellow said:


> I've just asked my mate who is a GP - and he couldn't tell me what a 'ridiculously good' BP is...


 
I think ' ridiculously good' was his manner in trying to reassure me that there was nothing wrong with my heart. My annual BP reading in August with the Practice nurse was 129/77 - my age 63 in case this is relevant.
The doctor checked me over with the stethoscope and took BP readings again which were similar to the August reading. His diagnosis - don't worry.

Thanks 'Arsen Gere' for the links. Some interesting points in the articles. My 'spikes, as an example, jump from 145 BPM in 2 steps to 166 or 3, 4, 5 steps to 178 or 186 or 198 in a matter of seconds. It appears to give one reading in the 150,s, one in the 160's and so on. The reading then returns to 'normal' within 4 or 5 seconds. Definitely not staying up like your female friend.
Curious, isn't it.


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## Arsen Gere (3 Jan 2013)

Enw.nigel said:


> I think ' ridiculously good' was his manner in trying to reassure me that there was nothing wrong with my heart. My annual BP reading in August with the Practice nurse was 129/77 - my age 63 in case this is relevant.
> The doctor checked me over with the stethoscope and took BP readings again which were similar to the August reading. His diagnosis - don't worry.
> 
> Thanks 'Arsen Gere' for the links. Some interesting points in the articles. My 'spikes, as an example, jump from 145 BPM in 2 steps to 166 or 3, 4, 5 steps to 178 or 186 or 198 in a matter of seconds. It appears to give one reading in the 150,s, one in the 160's and so on. The reading then returns to 'normal' within 4 or 5 seconds. Definitely not staying up like your female friend.
> Curious, isn't it.


 
Just come across this thread when googling for something else, might be worth a read. This bloke is getting static build up on a turbo from a butyl inner tube, he switched to a latex one and the problem went away - kind of. But people are reporting all kinds of interference. http://forum.tacx.com/viewtopic.php?t=16365


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## Garz (3 Jan 2013)

Enw.nigel said:


> Just to finish my contribution here...
> 
> He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.


 
Did you tell the Dr how much the unit cost and that you wanted to set up a routine based on the figure?

A decent Dr would have been able to help you with your HR levels as his equipment is pretty accurate!


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