# Napoleon's tactics at Waterloo - the post mortem



## rich p (15 Aug 2012)

blah blah blah blah...
...In my opinion, four principal causes led to this disaster: The first, and most influential, was the arrival, skilfully combined, of Blücher, and the false movement that favoured this arrival, the second was the admirable firmness of the British infantry, joined to the sang-froid and aplomb of its chiefs; the third, was the horrible weather, that had softened the ground, and rendered the offensive movements so toilsome, and retarded till one o'clock the attack that should have been made in the morning; the fourth, was the inconceivable formation of the first corps, in masses very much too deep for the first grand attack.
I rest my case.


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## ColinJ (15 Aug 2012)

I think his mistake was not reacting quickly enough to enemy advances. Once he saw that they were gaining an advantage he should have jumped down off his horse, run across to the enemy lines brandishing his gold-encrusted sword, and defeated them single-handed.


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## slowmotion (15 Aug 2012)

The French Cav stayed too near the English squares.....simple.


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## Ajay (15 Aug 2012)

Yes, but if he'd deployed the Imperial Guard earlier in the day to chase down the breakaway......(snorzzzzzzzzz)


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## lukesdad (15 Aug 2012)

If he hadnae gone for a pee he wouldnae missed his train.

< with noods accent >


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## marinyork (15 Aug 2012)

Just like today, the issue is where is the cannonball going.

Quite impressed you can remember Waterloo, you'd only have been five and a half years old at the time rich.


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## montage (16 Aug 2012)

if it wasn't for richard sharpe, napoleon would have done alreet


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## RecordAceFromNew (16 Aug 2012)

I detect the OP is designed to be a red rag to a platypus, bear, whatever to flush ye argumentative troublemakers, bullies out. Don't fall for it!


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## ufkacbln (16 Aug 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I think his mistake was not reacting quickly enough to enemy advances.


 
... and allegedly not reacting to Josephine's advances?


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## ufkacbln (16 Aug 2012)

montage said:


> if it wasn't for richard sharpe, napoleon would have done alreet


 
Richard Sharpe left army after Waterloo and did not in fact retire happily ever after to an idyllic country existence... that was a cover for the real story








Richard Sharpe is now Josephine!


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## Red Light (16 Aug 2012)

Napolean can get his tictacs from the WH Smiths outlet on the main concourse.


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## raindog (16 Aug 2012)

Another factor was that almost a whole battalion of French said they had to be at a wedding that day.


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## yello (16 Aug 2012)

The selection was all wrong imho. Nicole Cooke should not have been in the team.


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## rich p (16 Aug 2012)

You ignorant fools - I knew I'd weed out the shoot-from-the-hip armchair generals if I kept my powder dry long enough.
Only those who have led a battalion in the field are qualified to reply although whist players above parish level will of course be granted dispensation.


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## Risex4 (16 Aug 2012)

To be fair, I don't believe you've ever commanded Her Majesty's Armed Forces or been exiled to a small island off the west coast of Italy, so I'd like to know your credentials for posting this?

They were never going to attack properly up the slope to the sunken road, they should have done more on the flat. They made too much of a meal of the farm at Hugomount. There was also a very clear lack of a blan p, which further highlighted that NB was tactically past his sell-by date.


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## yello (16 Aug 2012)

I have played Risk. Does that count?


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## dellzeqq (16 Aug 2012)

the reason for Boney's demise is simple. He forgot his helmet


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## rich p (16 Aug 2012)

Risex4 said:


> To be fair, I don't believe you've ever commanded Her Majesty's Armed Forces or been exiled to a small island off the west coast of Italy, so I'd like to know your credentials for posting this?
> 
> They were never going to attack properly up the slope to the sunken road, they should have done more on the flat. They made too much of a meal of the farm at Hugomount. There was also a very clear lack of a blan p, which further highlighted that NB was tactically past his sell-by date.


 What you say has some substance to it - did you ever play county standard ludo?
FWIW, I have played rummy at the highest level - 24th floor of the Hyatt Hilton in Monterrey, since you ask.


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## perplexed (16 Aug 2012)

Napoleon's biggest mistake was in being too nationalistic.

He should have swallowed his pride and taken on Mr. Brailsford as a mercenary.

And put "special" wheels on his carts...


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## oldroadman (16 Aug 2012)

perplexed said:


> Napoleon's biggest mistake was in being too nationalistic.
> 
> He should have swallowed his pride and taken on Mr. Brailsford as a mercenary.
> 
> *And put "special" wheels on his carts...*




Wooden rimmed Mavic, of course.


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## RecordAceFromNew (16 Aug 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> the reason for Boney's demise is simple. He forgot his helmet


 
Gee this is deep. Dell if you had never shown him wearing nothing but his sideburn I would never have known Wiggo is Napoleon in disguise...


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## ufkacbln (16 Aug 2012)

A lot of you are making a ver big assumption boutthe British Armed Forces.

Experience and ability was never actually relevant, Military success was dictatd by large tracts of land, large assets and who you knew at Horseguards

What was the quote about WW1

"Lions led by Donkeys"


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## Rob88 (16 Aug 2012)

Well done Rich P senior vice president promote yourself to field marshal. I must compliment you on your detective work. I could have made my user name more obscure but some Surrey hillbilly would have grassed me up eventually.
You see when you have a strong hand and take the initiative, the whole pack can be made to dance to your tune. Rather like road racing really, guile and bluff and audacity are important, otherwise the thick testers would win all the time.


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## ufkacbln (16 Aug 2012)

rich p said:


> the admirable firmness of the British infantry


 
Somewhat lacking in this image?


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## dellzeqq (16 Aug 2012)

on the grounds that my task for the month is to get this little marvel on to every board on the forum, and Rich has offered me the best chance yet for this particular board, I have to say that Boney's problem was that he didn't have James Bond on his side...


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## Noodley (16 Aug 2012)

dellzeqq said:


>


 
Looks like Connery is heading out for a regular night oot in Leith.

And anyway, where was richp when we were all speaking about waterloo in the build up when we were putting forward our views and hypothesising about tactics and how he should play it, eh? Not fecking here, that's for sure! And as for that Marshall Ney, I always said he was a queer sort...you can tell from his eyes.


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## Risex4 (16 Aug 2012)

rich p said:


> What you say has some substance to it - did you ever play county standard ludo?


 
To be fair, no. I did enjoy a decent stretch as Undisputed Family Champion over the summer of 1989 (until nan cottoned onto doubling), but I must confess I ditched that career in favour of an (ill-fated) attempt at breaking into the bright lights of the Mouse Trap scene.

Liked for bringing up a board game I had completely forgotten about!


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## Red Light (16 Aug 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> I have to say that Boney's problem was that he didn't have James Bond on his side...


 
That's not James Bond, that's Zed the Exterminator. Shame on you for not knowing the difference


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## laurence (16 Aug 2012)

Clearly had Grouchy used his brain and followed the sound of canon fire he would have prevented or delayed the Prussians. Instead of following the break he merely stuck to the original plan.

One Le Hay-Saint farm fell it was over for the British as the centre of their ranks was broken... had Grouchy's men appeared on Napoleon's right flank, instead of Blucher (neigh) then it would have been the end for the dastardly Wellington. Instead of the peloton rejoining it was split further by the breakaway Prussians.

Napoleon spent most of the battle away from the field, allowing Ney to direct the action... he was the bravest of the brave, but also the stupidest of the stupid... cavalry charges unsupported by infantry? what was he thinking? the men were out front and vulnerable, no one rode to help them.


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## Hont (17 Aug 2012)

Can we flag this thread as NSFW? 

Close call there with the full frontal male nudity schenanigans.


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## davefb (17 Aug 2012)

laurence said:


> Clearly had Grouchy used his brain and followed the sound of canon fire he would have prevented or delayed the Prussians. Instead of following the break he merely stuck to the original plan.
> 
> One Le Hay-Saint farm fell it was over for the British as the centre of their ranks was broken... had Grouchy's men appeared on Napoleon's right flank, instead of Blucher (neigh) then it would have been the end for the dastardly Wellington. Instead of the peloton rejoining it was split further by the breakaway Prussians.
> 
> Napoleon spent most of the battle away from the field, allowing Ney to direct the action... he was the bravest of the brave, but also the stupidest of the stupid... cavalry charges unsupported by infantry? what was he thinking? the men were out front and vulnerable, no one rode to help them.


 
indeed grouchy does seem to have messed up , but massive credit to the 72yr old blucher..

anyway rich p is jomini and i claim google/wikipedias five pounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo#A_French_view_of_the_reasons_for_Napoleon.27s_defeat


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## Beebo (17 Aug 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> ...


 This is all wong, you need a pair of good old stout Wellington boots to defeat Napoloen, not some kinky thigh length leather ones.


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## Paulus (17 Aug 2012)

Beebo said:


> This is all wong, you need a pair of good old stout Wellington boots to defeat Napoloen, not some kinky thigh length leather ones.


 

Unless Raquel Welch is wearing them!!!


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## asterix (17 Aug 2012)

Too much reliance on the Old Guard. He should have given Froome his head, if you'll excuse the expression.*

*This may not be historically accurate.


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## byegad (17 Aug 2012)

I thought it was because he had a touch of the farmers.


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## lukesdad (17 Aug 2012)

Paulus said:


> Unless Raquel Welch is wearing them!!!


 
I thought it was Raquel < must remember to use glasses in future>


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## Monsieur Remings (17 Aug 2012)

Look at the sprint finish here...that's one hell of a lead-out too, I can't see any other team in the mix?


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Aug 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Look at the sprint finish here...that's one hell of a lead-out too, I can't see any other team in the mix?


 
Suicide if you ask me, they are miles from the finish and even with a train like that, where are the World Champion's stripes, eh? He's nowhere...


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## Monsieur Remings (17 Aug 2012)

Good point FM, but I think 'The Cav' is looking for a friendly showdown with General Griepel, so he's way back with the Prussians, under the supreme command of one Field Marshall Voigt.


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## dellzeqq (18 Aug 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Look at the sprint finish here...that's one hell of a lead-out too, I can't see any other team in the mix?


you've got to hand it to the chap painting this on the back of a motorbike........


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## ufkacbln (18 Aug 2012)

The live replay is on "Yesterday" now!


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## asterix (19 Aug 2012)

lukesdad said:


> I thought it was Raquel < must remember to use glasses in future>


 

OTOH there could be a market for glasses that make everything look like Raquel Welch.


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## Boris Bajic (19 Aug 2012)

I recall reading in _Les Miserables_ and elsewhere that Napoleon put a lot of faith in artillery. His early military training was as a gunner and he was an acknowledged master of battlefield gunnery.

Hugo and others were of the view that Boney delayed too long before joining battle at Waterloo because he was waiting for the sodden and muddy ground to dry out enough for his cannon to be moved.

Although I am ancient, I was not alive in 1815, so I cannot comment further.

There is also a school of thought that the then recently established USA was unaware that there was a global conflict underway in Europe and so had not responded. Plans were afoot in Washington to start a lend-lease scheme in the coming months and consider joining the fray at some unspecified time in the future, once it was clear who was going to win. Many consider this latter view uncharitable.


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## oldroadman (19 Aug 2012)

From the country that fought the 17-18 and 42-45 wars....


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## Ron-da-Valli (19 Aug 2012)

Yesterday's repeat yesterday will be shown on Yesterday tomorrow Personally I blame it on Rod Steiger, too busy method acting and hamming it up in his asides to camera. Should've had Roy Kinnear playing Boney with Dick Emery as Ney. "Dad I got it wrong again!" ( This last bit will only mean something to readers of a certain age!!


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## dellzeqq (19 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> I recall reading in _Les Miserables_ and elsewhere that Napoleon put a lot of faith in artillery. His early military training was as a gunner and he was an acknowledged master of battlefield gunnery.
> 
> *Hugo and others were of the view that Boney delayed too long before joining battle at Waterloo because he was waiting for the sodden and muddy ground to dry out enough for his cannon to be moved.*
> 
> ...


I can quite see that. Marlborough's masterstroke was the infantry advance over land that was unfit for cavalry.


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## edindave (19 Aug 2012)

Does this thread not belong in Campaigning?


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## ufkacbln (19 Aug 2012)

Because Waterloo was a battle, and not a Campaign?


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## 172traindriver (19 Aug 2012)

Lets ask ABBA to tell us about it


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## Boris Bajic (20 Aug 2012)

172traindriver said:


> Lets ask ABBA to tell us about it


 
This is unashamed trolling and has no place in a serious discussion.

ABBA were a troupe of Swedish pop artistes from the 1970s, not military historians.

Also, I believe the ABBA song on the topic in discussion was no more or less than a shallow love ditty and made no direct reference to events on the field, tactics employed or the strategies of the wider conflict.

References to surrender in the aria are made not in relation to a pragmatic but negative response to a reverse on the field of battle, but to an emotionally driven decision within a romantic situation.

This is a serious topic, one I have studied for many years.

Please keep your trolling and your wild associations to yourself.

Thank you.


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## Chuffy (20 Aug 2012)

Mr Boot has a quote for every eventuality. I shall demonstrate:

"I don't know what effect these mad buggers in Race will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me."


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## laurence (20 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> This is unashamed trolling and has no place in a serious discussion.
> 
> ABBA were a troupe of Swedish pop artistes from the 1970s, not military historians.
> 
> ...


 
i believe you have fallen for the propaganda. the song is actually a tribute to the Corsican... "the history books on the shelves are always repeating themselves" is praise of Napoleon's daring and originality in that others will only copy his achievements.

"promise to love you forever more" - again, a glowing reference to the enduring quality of Napoleon's legacy

"i feel like i win when i lose" - how obvious is that it is a paen to the great man.

also, if you play it backwards you can hear a french voice cursing Blucher


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## alans (20 Aug 2012)

Bonny lost 'cause he was not concentrating on the battle,he was dicking around with his left hand thinking about Josephine


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Aug 2012)

laurence said:


> also, if you play it backwards you can hear a french voice cursing Blucher


 
Also, it sounds better backwards.


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## Chuffy (20 Aug 2012)

I love this thread.


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## Licramite (23 Aug 2012)

should mounted his entire army on bicycles.
I've walked the route from Charlroi,Quatra Bra,waterloo - much quicker on a bike,

Napoleon did say if he could have mounted his entire army he would have , but I think thats a lot of horse shoot
ho ho.


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## Chuffy (23 Aug 2012)

Licramite said:


> Napoleon did say if he could have mounted his entire army he would have , but I think thats a lot of horse s***
> ho ho.


Surely that would have taken him ages and been a serious distraction from the battle, the filthy bugger.


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## Licramite (24 Aug 2012)

Napoleon had not fought wellington or a british army , so he failed to realise wellingtons tactic of hiding behind a ridge.
Other armies he fought deployed so the enemy could see its might - wellington commented on bluchers deployment at Ligny - blucher claimed his troops liked to see the enemy , wellington said he was going to get a pounding.
Grouchey failed napoleon in not putting himself between the british and the prussians, but his orders were to pursue the prussians not cover the flank of napeoleon, even so he acted in a very dim way.
Napoleon basic plan , faint left punch centre was not bold enough, he should have ignored hougemont and gone further left to strike at the ridge beyond, but again his local commanders got fixated on clearing hougemont.
His reliance on heavy artillery against other armies had worked but it failed against wellington - though it did enough damage that a concerted cavalry / infantry attack at 5-6oclock could have broken through

to be fair command control during that period was always very loose, especially for the attacker.
In simulations napoleon normally wins ," it was a close run thing."


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## Boris Bajic (25 Aug 2012)

I've studied this battle for many years and I believe Napoleon made some very serious errors:

1. No air support.
2. No tanks.
3. No light armoured reconnaissance vehicles.
4. No mechanised infantry.
5. No machine-gun regments of the type trained between the wars (1 Middx. Regt. etc).
6. A lack of modern battlefield comms (radio etc.).

Call me a fool, but with the above and with the ability to deny Wellington ground through the laying of AP mines, I think he'd have won.

Also, it's unlikely his field commanders understod him as he was a foreign gentleman and spoke only French.

Now that I've posted the definitive thinking on this topic, I think the thread can be closed.


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