# Spin or grind?



## Trevrev (14 Nov 2013)

Hello,
While cycling to work yesterday, a guy came past me on his Trek hybrid, and he was pedaling like the clappers.
But he had a fair bit of speed. I could see he had a few gears left to play with, so he clearly chose to spin at a high pace.
Being me, i thought i'd cycle home in a lower gear and see if there was any advantage to spinning.
I found it un-natural personally. Not sure if i gained any speed from doing it.
So what do you lot do? Spin or grind?


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## HLaB (14 Nov 2013)

Natural cadence for me and thats usually somewhere in between. Tried a higher cadence and found out I was losing too much on endurance, wasting too much energy when I didn't need too and the opposite griding (as the title suggests) is bad for your joints, grinds them


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## steveindenmark (14 Nov 2013)

Each to his own.

Steve


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## Hacienda71 (14 Nov 2013)

I don't spin but I also don't grind much. On the flat I like to just get into a rhythm that suits me, but it is well off what anyone would describe as spinning. In the hills it will vary dramatically. Steepness of incline versus length of that section and how I feel on the day all play a part. If I am feeling sluggish I may spin up a hill that on a more energetic day I will get out of the saddle and attack in a bigger gear at a lower cadence. 
As Steve said it is very much a case of "each to his own"


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## Beebo (14 Nov 2013)

I removed my cadence sensor about 12 months ago, but I expect that I am still pedalling at about 90 - 95 rpm.


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## Ganymede (14 Nov 2013)

I grind on the way home sometimes. I'm hoping to strengthen my legs for skiing!


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## ianrauk (14 Nov 2013)

I'm a spinner.


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## Hacienda71 (14 Nov 2013)

ianrauk said:


> I'm a spinner.




Never thought of you as a member of a folk band........


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## ianrauk (14 Nov 2013)

Someone did say to me once that I would make a good fixie rider as I spin quite quickly.


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## Koga (14 Nov 2013)

In cadence terms, when do you grind and at which point does it become spinning ?


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## ScotiaLass (14 Nov 2013)

I just go with what feels natural to me, but I know that's not spinning!


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## fossyant (14 Nov 2013)

Ideal rpm is 80 to 100. I average about 90 on geared rides. I tend to spin more commuting as I ride fixed but my rpm is anything from 60 to 150.


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## Sittingduck (14 Nov 2013)

Koga said:


> In cadence terms, when do you grind and at which point does it become spinning ?



I don't think there are exact boundaries and everybody will preceive what feels like spinning or grinding to be at differing cadences.

I reckon I'm an Inbetweener, with a typical rate of about 85-90 on a steady bit of road. Avg cadence for an entire ride is much lower, usually 75-80 (max). Racing or TTing the avg is more like 85 but I suppose it's because of no stopping and much less freewheeling.

Edit: To include that what feels like a grind (to me) is anything sub 80.


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## Rob3rt (14 Nov 2013)

I don't do either, I do kabooming! Must be the squats! I'll wait for you at the top...


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## numbnuts (14 Nov 2013)

I'm a spinner too


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## Venod (14 Nov 2013)

Spinning for me.


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## Frood42 (14 Nov 2013)

In London it is mainly flat, so I don't really grind or spin, I find a comfortable rhythm and bomb along as fast as I can.

If I do hit a hill (in London  ), I either drop down a gear or two and spin up or if I am feeling sprightly I will get out of the saddle and push it, which normally ends up with me chugging up the hill as I tire myself out too quickly with my over enthusiastic attempt to get up as quickly as possible... I probably get up just as quick spinning it...


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## Biker Joe (14 Nov 2013)

I do what comes naturally.
I haven't got a clue what my cadence is.


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## Dusty Bin (14 Nov 2013)

Koga said:


> In cadence terms, when do you grind and at which point does it become spinning ?



^^ this. It's an un-answerable question, by the way. One person's spinning will be another person's grinding. And vice-versa.


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## Markymark (14 Nov 2013)

Grinding on a bike - won't she fall off??


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## helston90 (14 Nov 2013)

"They" say grinding puts more strain on your joints/ body and on the bike, therefore i'm trying to spin where possible but I still tend to be faster on a stand up grind up a short sharp hill.


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## HLaB (14 Nov 2013)

Frood42 said:


> If I do hit a hill (in London  ),


 OT I might be cycling down to Barnet at the weekend; its profile looks hillier compared to here at least


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## Frood42 (14 Nov 2013)

HLaB said:


> OT I might be cycling down to Barnet at the weekend; its profile looks hillier compared to here at least


 
Never cycled around Barnet
My summer commute was around the Epping area, where there are some hills, but nothing major.

My winter commute route takes me along the CS2 and CS3, which are all flat

http://goo.gl/maps/NAM16 - A13, big and open to the wind 
http://goo.gl/maps/TS5fw - Stratford, with more tarmac
http://goo.gl/maps/AwWgj - and a short hill, maybe...
It's all very scenic here 

I prefered the summer commute route, but it's a bit lonely out on those roads, and dark, so no help if you get knocked off and they drive off 
http://goo.gl/maps/SQ8EL
http://goo.gl/maps/ELNru
http://goo.gl/maps/qbXWp
http://goo.gl/maps/EoaVV
http://goo.gl/maps/wDMR9
http://goo.gl/maps/o5nyz

the Epping bumps or hills are much more fun...


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## VamP (14 Nov 2013)

fossyant said:


> Ideal rpm is 80 to 100. I average about 90 on geared rides. I tend to spin more commuting as I ride fixed but my rpm is *anything from 60 to 150*.


 
Funny, my range on my geared bikes is something like that too.


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## Lincov (14 Nov 2013)

I'm trying to increase my cadence (by feel, I don't measure it), as I read that it was a more efficient way to cycle, and I can tell the difference. So I'm an aspiring spinner.


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## Jefferson Meriwether (14 Nov 2013)

I'm somewhat closer to being a grinder than a spinner.


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## Cyclopathic (14 Nov 2013)

Spin with my left leg, grind with my right. I'm an all rounder.


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## Cyclopathic (14 Nov 2013)

On a slightly more serious note is there a reasonably reliable technique for working out cadence without a computer. I find it impossible to count pedal rotations and seconds at the same time.


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## Cyclopathic (14 Nov 2013)

Lincov said:


> I'm trying to increase my cadence (by feel, I don't measure it), as I read that it was a more efficient way to cycle, and I can tell the difference. So I'm an aspiring spinner.


Me too. I reckon my natural rate is about 60 but would like to get it a bit higher.


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## oldfatfool (14 Nov 2013)

Spin downhill and grind uphill, that way I build up both slow and fast twitch muscles


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## ColinJ (14 Nov 2013)

Cyclopathic said:


> On a slightly more serious note is there a reasonably reliable technique for working out cadence without a computer. I find it impossible to count pedal rotations and seconds at the same time.


If you know what speed you are doing, just calculate it from your gear ratio!

Cadence (rpm) x 60 (mins per hour) x gear ratio x circumference of wheel in metres / 1,000 (metres per km) = speed in kms/hour

Gear ratio = teeth on big ring / teeth on sprocket 

Circumference of 23C tyre is about 2.1 m according to the table on this page (other common tyre sizes included)

So, your cadence if you are in a 53/13 gear, with 23C tyres and riding at 40 km/hr would be (40 x 13 x 1,000)/(60 x 53 x 2.1) or about 78 rpm

If you fancy some other numbers ... 25 mph = 1.609 x 25 km/hr = 40.22 km/hr. Let's assume a 52/14 gear (top gear on my Basso)...

Cadence = (40.22 x 14 x 1,000)/(60 x 52 x 2.1) or about 86 rpm.

I tend to spin out on descents in my 52/14 gear at about 38 mph or 61.1 km/hr. That means my maximum cadence is about 130 rpm. I could probably manage a little bit more but really anything over 120 rpm feels too high for me.


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## BigonaBianchi (14 Nov 2013)

being a heavier chap I run out of gears on the hills quicker than smaller fellows so i end up grinding earlier on the slopes....as the pain in my hip today is testament to.


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## ColinJ (14 Nov 2013)

BigonaBianchi said:


> being a heavier chap I run out of gears on the hills quicker than smaller fellows so i end up grinding earlier on the slopes....as the pain in my hip today is testament to.


Er, do your joints a favour and get some lower gears on your bike!

I rode my Cannondale in the local hills for a while and found that its 39/29 bottom gear was too much for my joints when I weighed over 16 stone and was tackling gradients exceeding 15%, and sometimes 20%.

It's not a fitness thing - I got up them - it's a wear and tear on the body thing!


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## shouldbeinbed (14 Nov 2013)

is there an option for pootler? I try to spin but it is not a natural feeling for me and requires constant concentration to maintain.


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## Trevrev (14 Nov 2013)

Well, some very technical answers! This wasn't even an issue with me until yesterday morning. I tried spinning home again, and it's so much easier on me. And i'm surprised i'm no slower. 
I'm going to keep chipping away at this and see how it goes. As for counting your cadence, i'll wait until i'm back cycling in the daylight, so i can see my watch!


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## DiddlyDodds (14 Nov 2013)

around 85- 90rmp for me , up hills I would much rather spin.


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## Rando (14 Nov 2013)

ColinJ said:


> If you know what speed you are doing, just calculate it from your gear ratio!
> 
> Cadence (rpm) x 60 (mins per hour) x gear ratio x circumference of wheel in metres / 1,000 (metres per km) = speed in kms/hour
> 
> ...



whoooooosh straight over my head!! Far too complicated for me so I just purchased a garmin cadence sensor as I already had the garmin 800. 
I average about 95rpm on my rides of 40-50 miles.


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## Pat "5mph" (14 Nov 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> is there an option for pootler? I try to spin but it is not a natural feeling for me and requires constant concentration to maintain.


Same here: I prefer grinding. As I learned from you learned folk  that grinding is bad for your joints, I try to spin when I remember.


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## derrick (14 Nov 2013)

ianrauk said:


> Someone did say to me once that I would make a good fixie rider as I spin quite quickly.


You mean to tell us you don't have a fixie, i thought any one who does the miles you do would have one.


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## derrick (14 Nov 2013)

I spin most of the time when i ride with the boy's but grind with the girls.


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## the_mikey (14 Nov 2013)

I am a spinner, when I bought the garmin with cadence sensor I discovered I was spinning at 110rpm


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## ianrauk (14 Nov 2013)

derrick said:


> You mean to tell us you don't have a fixie, i thought any one who does the miles you do would have one.




I like my gears...


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## Blurb (14 Nov 2013)

Spin - my knees are a natural cadence monitor. Too low and a grumble they will. 
Having said that, I did pick up a saying from someone on here along the lines of , if your legs are screaming use a lower gear, if your lungs are bursting use a higher one, and apply it as best I can whenever I remember.


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## biggs682 (14 Nov 2013)

i prefer to grind unless into a head wind


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## uclown2002 (14 Nov 2013)

Absolutely no idea. Wherever possible I put it in a gear that feels comfortable (neither too hard or easy) and simply turn the pedals....repeatedly.


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## Matthew_T (14 Nov 2013)

I have always been a grinder. I can spin but it just doesnt feel comfortable. When grinding, I am in a gear that I can keep a constant speed in as well as have a bit left over to provide an acceleration boost if necessary. 
I can easily do 18mph in the gear (big chainring and 5th or 6th gear on the cogs) and be able to sprint up to 25mph before needing to change up.


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## Hip Priest (14 Nov 2013)

Grind your own business.


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## BigonaBianchi (14 Nov 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Er, do your joints a favour and get some lower gears on your bike!
> 
> I rode my Cannondale in the local hills for a while and found that its 39/29 bottom gear was too much for my joints when I weighed over 16 stone and was tackling gradients exceeding 15%, and sometimes 20%.
> 
> It's not a fitness thing - I got up them - it's a wear and tear on the body thing!




yep agree...im saving up for a triple on the bianchi....lbs said £350 with new shifters, chainset, front de railer etc.....seems steep to me but i need it or im going to suffer more as i age gracefully


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## Crankarm (15 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> ^^ this. It's an un-answerable question, by the way. One person's spinning will be another person's grinding. And vice-versa.



Or I s'pose you could just be a spanner ?


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## Gravity Aided (15 Nov 2013)

Spinner, but I live in a relatively flat area, for the most part.


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