# Fuel tariffs



## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2020)

Just checked out cheaper energy providers as our Scottish Power dual fuel bills would have rocketed as the contract's ended... so very happy to start saving over £40/mo. [£500/p.a] by moving to a green electric supplier [British Gas, who'd've thought it!] 

Just need to get the loft insulation thickness topped up to save even more next winter which will pay for itself in around 6 months... need to get the north-east and north-west external walls checked for heat loss as I'm sure the rockwool cavity insulation I got installed just after we moved in isn't working as well as it did- time for a thermal imaging camera check! Applied technology is brilliant!


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## Slick (12 Jun 2020)

I really would give the cavity wall insulation a miss if I were you.


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## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2020)

Too late Slick... had it put in by Rockwool installer 28 years ago... it's a 3 inch cavity on a 1966 Wimpey house so not a brilliant U-value- it's been better than not having it but suspect it's slumped and rather than risk topping it up I've been meaning to put external insulation and rain screen cladding on the house for years but never had time!


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## Slick (12 Jun 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Too late Slick... had it put in by Rockwool installer 28 years ago... it's a 3 inch cavity on a 1966 Wimpey house so not a brilliant U-value- it's been better than not having it but suspect it's slumped and rather than risk topping it up I've been meaning to put external insulation and rain screen cladding on the house for years but never had time!


Not sure about England, but there are lots of grants available in Scotland for this and your house will thank you for its cavity back. The obvious other benefits are the pure aesthetics of the building and not every building suits external insulation but I'm sure a 66 Wimpey job probably will unless it's brick of course.


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## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2020)

Grant aid in England is rarer than hens' teeth- fine in theory but not worth the hassle in practice.

Had the cavity checked before blowing the fibres in- not a problem if the ties aren't bridged with mortar snots and aren't sloping back to the inner leaf. Rockwool is great in clean cavities, but can slump with time... wouldn't have used anything else.

It's the saving on the energy bills that I like with insulation, the pay-back is virtually instant!


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## Drago (12 Jun 2020)

Yes, British Gash. How do they only send green energy to your house? Do they have a special switch they flick so you don't get any gas or coal power?


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## Slick (12 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> Yes, British Gash. How do they only send green energy to your house? Do they have a special switch they flick so you don't get any gas or coal power?


I seen a bit on the news a week or so ago that reckoned coal has gone.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...n-coal-free-industrial-revolution-electricity


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## Drago (12 Jun 2020)

Its incredible. Looks like all but one of the coal stations will be decommissioned by 2025.


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## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> Yes, British Gash. How do they only send green energy to your house? Do they have a special switch they flick so you don't get any gas or coal power?


No idea unless I check it out... but with the abuse they'd get if it's not valid I doubt they'd risk suggesting their electric generation is 'green' if it isn't. They don't make any claims about the gas supply....


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## Dave7 (13 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> I really would give the cavity wall insulation a miss if I were you.


Really??
When we had ours done (years ago) we noticed a big immediate improvement.
Can't put a % on it but we were amazed at the difference.


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## PaulSB (13 Jun 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> No idea unless I check it out... but with the abuse they'd get if it's not valid I doubt they'd risk suggesting their electric generation is 'green' if it isn't. They don't make any claims about the gas supply....


My understanding is green energy supply is how much energy your supplier purchases from generators using solar, wind etc. or generates itself.

If you pay for 100 units and BG purchase 100 units your consumption is effectively 100% green. If BG only purchase 75 units it's 75% etc.

I may be wrong but I think this is how it works. Unless we shut down all "dirty" generation our power generation can never be absolutely green.


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## Phaeton (13 Jun 2020)

Before you [ay for the loft check that there isn't a grant, if it's below a certain number of mm there was funding


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## Drago (13 Jun 2020)

PaulSB said:


> My understanding is green energy supply is how much energy your supplier purchases from generators using solar, wind etc. or generates itself.
> 
> If you pay for 100 units and BG purchase 100 units your consumption is effectively 100% green. If BG only purchase 75 units it's 75% etc.
> 
> I may be wrong but I think this is how it works. Unless we shut down all "dirty" generation our power generation can never be absolutely green.


It's doesn't matter where British Gas, Scottish Power, or Yorkshire Tea buy their power from - it all comes down the same cable form the same source, and only the distribution network (in my case Western Power distribution) have any influence on that. Indeed, even they have little real influence because the infrastructure is fixed. They can't flick a switch and only pipe Treehugger Power Ltd electricity to your house because you've now signed with them.

No matter what you do the power you use comes form the same source or combinaton of sources, be it coal, gas, solar, wind, or albatross wing beats. It's a paper exercise, not an exercise in physically providing you with power from a more sustainable source.

The most that can be done is to switch in or out strategic level generators - usually gas, because its high output and can be brought on line quickly - to pick up the slack during times of high demand. That's high order stuff, not the sort of thing that can be done to supply an individual customers property.


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## Slick (13 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Really??
> When we had ours done (years ago) we noticed a big immediate improvement.
> Can't put a % on it but we were amazed at the difference.


There is quite a good video on the link below that will explain it better than me and the merry go round paragraph is worth a read as the green deal was a failure in Scotland and I suspect in England as contractors were being paid a lot of money to pump this stuff into a cavity that didn't need it and then within a couple of years, another set of contractors were being paid a lot of money to take it back out. I owned a few flats at a time for the rental market and one block was subject to a bit of an overhaul and I was awarded quite a large grant to cover the roof and render works which included pulling out the old cotton wool type insulation. I fought long and hard to get them to keep the cavity insulation free and eventually I was told that the job would only go ahead if I agreed to the insulation as they had targets to hit. So it went in but I knew that that block would only remain dry until the render started to crack which it all did eventually. 
https://www.property-care.org/problems-with-cavity-wall-insulation/


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## vickster (13 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Before you [ay for the loft check that there isn't a grant, if it's below a certain number of mm there was funding


Means tested I believe


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## Drago (13 Jun 2020)

It wasn't very expensive to do 8 inches of loft insulation myself.


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## Phaeton (13 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Means tested I believe


Ours wasn't but that is not to say the rules haven't changed


Drago said:


> It wasn't very expensive to do 8 inches of loft insulation myself.


You're welcome to it, nasty horrible stuff, my choices were to let somebody else do it for free, or pay for it & do it myself, I'll let you decide which I went with.


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## PaulSB (13 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> It's doesn't matter where British Gas, Scottish Power, or Yorkshire Tea buy their power from - it all comes down the same cable form the same source, and only the distribution network (in my case Western Power distribution) have any influence on that. Indeed, even they have little real influence because the infrastructure is fixed. They can't flick a switch and only pipe Treehugger Power Ltd electricity to your house because you've now signed with them.
> 
> No matter what you do the power you use comes form the same source or combinaton of sources, be it coal, gas, solar, wind, or albatross wing beats. It's a paper exercise, not an exercise in physically providing you with power from a more sustainable source.
> 
> The most that can be done is to switch in or out strategic level generators - usually gas, because its high output and can be brought on line quickly - to pick up the slack during times of high demand. That's high order stuff, not the sort of thing that can be done to supply an individual customers property.


Yes, I fully understand this and knew, roughly, it to be the case. I fully appreciate the energy which actually enters my home will have been generated by one of several different methods.

I probably didn't explain myself very well. The supplier has to purchase energy from a generator. The supplier can choose where to purchase that energy and if the supplier chooses to purchase 100% of its energy from green sources through my purchasing from that green supplier I am helping my green supplier to achieve this. Clearly there can't be different forms of electricity travelling along the same lines.


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## Drago (13 Jun 2020)

Yeah, it wasn't a fun job. I have overalls and a respirator, gloves etc, but it was hot beyond belief and it was no fun a chap my size trying to squeeze into the small places. 

It only cost me a few hundred quid, but to be fair even if you have to pay someone a lot more to do it they really earn their money!



PaulSB said:


> I probably didn't explain myself very well. The supplier has to purchase energy from a generator. The supplier can choose where to purchase that energy and if the supplier chooses to purchase 100% of its energy from green sources through my purchasing from that green supplier I am helping my green supplier to achieve this. Clearly there can't be different forms of electricity travelling along the same lines.



i'm afraid, Mr SB, that it's a sop. Your green generator makes more money, but it does nothing to reduce the non-renewable generation sources in use. It's a money-go-round and they've figured out how to make that money stick at certain points in the system, not a genuine method of helping the planet. that money then goes into shareholder pockets, and they use it to purchase big cars and foreign holidays, and to fund an avaricious consumer lifestyle, so the NET effect is worse.

And the money game doesn't affect the coal generators much, because the bulk of their income is direct from the government anyway because of their strategic importance to the economy. Not as much cash as you'd think, but coal is cheap.


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## vickster (13 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Ours wasn't but that is not to say the rules haven't changed
> .


Looks to be only available if claiming benefits these days
https://urpltd.co.uk/eligibility-ch...MI8c2Psrn-6QIVVeztCh3HbQLJEAAYASABEgJJl_D_BwE


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## johnblack (16 Jun 2020)

Oils at about 27p per litre at the minute, price has halved in the last 6 months, wish I had a second tank I could fill.


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