# Would different tyres make much of a difference?



## T675Rich (6 Sep 2018)

I started commuting on my new bike and it is so much nicer than my old one, it comes with Panaracer Comet Hardpack 700x38C tyres. I hadn't given it much thought as it doesn't look like a proper off road tyre like my old bike used to have but a colleague saw it and asked if I was going to put some road tyres on it. I'm not fit or fast so I am thinking that there may not be much point but I would like some more expert opinion.

Thanks.


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## Cycleops (6 Sep 2018)

Looks like "crossover" type tyre, a sort of semi off road pattern found on many hybrids now. Pumped up to Max it should perform well on the road but maybe not as well as a smoother road tyre. The main issue may be its puncture resistance or otherwise.
I use Schwalbe Tryragos 37c on my adventure bike which are similar and they roll reasonably well but I also have to tackle the hard rutted tracks and soft loose surfaces here. Puncture resistance is good.


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## Jimidh (6 Sep 2018)

The answer is yes if you are only using it on the road but if it’s worth it depends on how far you are cycling and how you view the slightly higher risk of a puncture.


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## T675Rich (7 Sep 2018)

I am almost exclusively using roads at the moment but can imagine once we have taught my son to ride his bike and we go out as a family more we will probably use more towpaths and trails and the like. My commute is pretty short tbh, just over 5.5 miles so it's probably not really going to make any difference really.


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## vickster (7 Sep 2018)

Yes, as will a narrower tyre potentially (once you've checked your rims). I put 32mm Duranos on my Boardman CX, much better on roads. You'll perhaps be 1-2 mph faster, couple of minutes over commute (of course traffic lights etc are the biggest factor in commute speed)


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## Vantage (7 Sep 2018)

It's a common myth that narrower tyres are faster and one that I'm sick of seeing. Frankly it's a load of rubbish. 
Maybe on a smooth surfaced road or track you might see a speed improvement but in the real world on real roads which are rough as a cheese grater at best and filled with potholes then a more supple and bigger tyre with less tread will be quicker. The suppleness allows the tyre to deform around road debris thus soaking up jolts and giving better grip. The extra air volume allows the tyre to be run at lower pressures making for a more comfy ride and so a less fatigued rider.
A 'slick' tyre despite what many believe will also be perfectly at home on a canal tow path or trail but may lose traction on softer mud or greasy paths.
For the op I can highly recommend the vittoria hyper voyager in 35c or 38c size. You won't believe how good these tyres are till you try them.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Sep 2018)

The only real benefit I see to running narrower tyres is weight reduction, not rolling resistance, and saving say a pound off the weight of a bike by running skinny tyres is going to equate to a reduction of 1% or less in most cases. Any difference in effort or overall speed purely due to tyre width is going to be pretty small if comparing two tyres with the same tread pattern but different widths.
Tread pattern is where tyres can make a really big difference:- recently I did back-to-back tests ridden over the same route in the same direction on the same day using three bikes I have that are all fitted with accurately calibrated Cateye cycle computers. The results show the differences to be largely related to how knobbly the tread is not how wide the tyre or how heavy the bike.
Bike A, flat bar hybrid, Schwalbe 700 x 35c gen purpose tread, bike weight 30 1/2 lbs - Average speed 11.7 mph.
Bike B, flat bar hybrid, identical Schwalbe tyres fitted as above, bike weight 31 lbs. - Average speed 11.5 mph.
Bike C, flat bar rigid MTB, 26" x 2.1" & 26" x 1.95" knobbly tyres, bike weight 32 lbs. - Average speed 10.1 mph. 

An easy rule of thumb is that draggy tyres will hum audibly when you get up to a decent speed, and you lose speed more quickly as soon as you stop pedalling. Easy rolling tyres don't make any road noise and they roll for longer when coasting.


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## dantheman (7 Sep 2018)

Yep, the vittoria hyper are pretty good.. 
Thinner tyres are faster to a degree, but very little so... A 28mm tyre seems to take less effort than a 42mm one IMO. I'd recommend 28-32mm tyres are pretty good as far as width for hybrid tyres. 
Smoother (less knobbly) tyres make more of a difference as vantage has said.. They roll better and my personal experience is that on tarmac they provide more grip and once you get your head around that they give you the confidence to push a little harder, especially in the corners. 

The Knobbles on off road tyres sap your energy as they flex as you go across the tread (on tarmac) and after I got used to slicks and then rode a bike on knobblys, it seemed to slip/crab slightly around corners and really made me feel unsafe by comparison. 

Though, my advice would be to wear the tyres out (assuming that your happy with them now) and then when it comes to replacing either try slicks if your on tarmac pretty much all the time, or if you find you like to do a little off-load or muddy riding then choose tyres with a smooth central area that then has some Knobbles towards the sides of the tyre (crossover/hybrid type?) your current tyres are almost like that, as cycleops has said.


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## nickyboy (8 Sep 2018)

This is a really good site that compares lots of different tyres both for rolling resistance and puncture resistance

There is quite a lot of variation in rolling resistances. I can easily increase or decrease my effective power by about 10% just by selecting different tyres.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com


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## T675Rich (10 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> It's a common myth that narrower tyres are faster and one that I'm sick of seeing. Frankly it's a load of rubbish.
> Maybe on a smooth surfaced road or track you might see a speed improvement but in the real world on real roads which are rough as a cheese grater at best and filled with potholes then a more supple and bigger tyre with less tread will be quicker. The suppleness allows the tyre to deform around road debris thus soaking up jolts and giving better grip. The extra air volume allows the tyre to be run at lower pressures making for a more comfy ride and so a less fatigued rider.
> A 'slick' tyre despite what many believe will also be perfectly at home on a canal tow path or trail but may lose traction on softer mud or greasy paths.
> For the op I can highly recommend the vittoria hyper voyager in 35c or 38c size. You won't believe how good these tyres are till you try them.



I may give those a look, my college was referring to the tread rather than the width as I think my is considered a gravel/cyclocross tyre. 



SkipdiverJohn said:


> An easy rule of thumb is that draggy tyres will hum audibly when you get up to a decent speed, and you lose speed more quickly as soon as you stop pedalling. Easy rolling tyres don't make any road noise and they roll for longer when coasting.



Oooh I didn't realise that is what the noise could be as I do notice a hum at higher speeds and as the bike is new I wasn't sure what it could be.

The bike is much quicker than my old bike with the current tyres so I am in no major rush to replace them.


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## Globalti (19 Sep 2018)

That hum is the sound of your energy being wasted.


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## Vantage (19 Sep 2018)

I'd say the whole tyre humming thing is a load of crap. 
My old Voyagers had a hum about them and they're one of the best rolling tyres out there. It's the air inside under pressure being bounced around inside a thin carcass and tends to get louder as the pressure increases. 
Any other hum would be the nobbles being squished into the ground.


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## froze (7 Oct 2018)

The tires you have now are for road and mild off road riding, if all you're going to be doing is riding on the road then you should look at smoother style tires if you want a tad more speed, if you ride on hard pack dirt smooth tires will work ok as well...heck I ride smooth 25c tires on hard pack, gravel, and grass with no issues but of course I'm not racing on those surfaces with those tires! LOL! But I can ride on those surfaces if I need to and your size of tire would have no issue on those surfaces vs my size. 

Kenda Street K830 is sort of smooth tire that doesn't cost much; if you want a better tire the Michelin Protek Urban tire is great tire, but not only does it come in your current size but you could also get it in a 35c size, that narrower tire will also make it a tad faster. Since you live in Europe you may have other choices I can't find in America, but by showing you those two tires you get an idea of what I'm talking about you should get "IF" you want to be a bit faster on the street, plus the road hum will be gone.

I wouldn't go any narrower than a 35c though because I don't think you can go any narrower then that on your rims.


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## T675Rich (17 Oct 2018)

froze said:


> I wouldn't go any narrower than a 35c though because I don't think you can go any narrower then that on your rims.



How would I know what tyres my rims could take.

On a related note I want to get a spare inner tube to help with mid ride issues. There seems to be two sizes I can get 700x32-50c or 700x28-38c I am thinking that the second one is better as if I change my tyres I'll go narrower not wider but it seems odd to me there is such a big overlap.


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## Drago (17 Oct 2018)

Decent road biased tyres can make a noticeable difference. Before the war when I had a job to commute to, I initially did it on a rigid MTB. 1.5" Cityjets made the damn thing a serious flyer. After a while I swapped to a sportive bike for the journey, and the proper road bike was only 40 or so seconds quicker across a 9 mile journey than the MTB on the 'jets.


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## Vantage (17 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5413740, member: 9609"]but keep them pumped up as close to the max recommended for the tyre and rim. You will notice a big difference[/QUOTE]

Depending on the ops weight, this could lead to the tyres bumping across a rough surface thus increasing rolling resistance and increasing the risk of loss of traction.
Tailoring the air pressure would allow the tyre to deform around rough surfaces so giving a smoother, quicker ride and as there'll be more rubber on the ground, less chance of skidding.


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## DCBassman (18 Oct 2018)

When I first commuted on my Trek 800 Sport, it was still fitted with its production big knobblies. After a slew of punctures, I fitted what were the ancestors of, I think, Schwalbe Silentos. No punctures for the next 14 years, and much easier to make progress. Not skinnier though, or not much. These days, that bike wears 1.5 City Jets, even better.
When I rebuild the Norco (soon, honest!),
I'll fit 38c Vittoria Hyper Voyagers, as City Jets not available for 700 rims.


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## Boon 51 (3 Dec 2018)

+ 1 for the City Jets..


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## icowden (7 Dec 2018)

As someone else said - do take into consideration the roads you are cycling down. I tend to do much better on my fat schwalbe big ben tyres than some of the people on teeny tiny racing tyres when they try to go down the back of the south bank which despite being a road in central london is more like offroading!


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## graham bowers (7 Dec 2018)

My touring bike came with Continental Touring Plus tyres 32mm. I changed them for Continental Hardshell Gatorskins 32mm and the difference was immediately noticeable. I gained about 1.5 mph and just as importantly to me, the bike feels more alive and nimble. My brother bought exactly the same model tourer at the same time and he changed to Specialized Armadillos with similar improvement.


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## davidphilips (7 Dec 2018)

My advice is simple, use the tyres you have until they are worn/due replacement before buying some thing better.


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## Fab Foodie (7 Dec 2018)

davidphilips said:


> My advice is simple, use the tyres you have until they are worn/due replacement before buying some thing better.


If you can afford it, life is too short to ride on sch1tt tyres...


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## freiston (12 Dec 2018)

davidphilips said:


> My advice is simple, use the tyres you have until they are worn/due replacement before buying some thing better.





Fab Foodie said:


> If you can afford it, life is too short to ride on sch1tt tyres...


Sounds like we've gone full circle - what's a sh1tt tyre and what's a better tyre?


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## davidphilips (12 Dec 2018)

freiston said:


> Sounds like we've gone full circle - what's a sh1tt tyre and what's a better tyre?




Good question? Panaracer Comet Hard Pack MTB Tyres the op has seem good tyres, but for fast road use may not be %100, some thing like continental gp4000s that can be bought on sale for appox £27 each may be great for road use but not %100 if going of road bit like the old question how long is a bit of string?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Dec 2018)

For 5.5 miles stick with what you have. The elapsed difference between them and a narrower smoother tyre will be neither here nor there.


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## davidphilips (12 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> For 5.5 miles stick with what you have. The elapsed difference between them and a narrower smoother tyre will be neither here nor there.



A man after my own heart, well said.


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## Fab Foodie (12 Dec 2018)

freiston said:


> Sounds like we've gone full circle - what's a sh1tt tyre and what's a better tyre?


Depends what combinations of qualities YOU want ;-)

For me and my all-round road main road bike, Vittoria Open Pave are bloody lovely to ride, expensive, (fast, grippy, comfortable) but puncture easily when it rains. Marathon plus are cheapish, durable and puncture proof but horribly slow and uncomfortable to ride. Continental 4 Seasons are quite pricey but fast, supple and fairly grippy like the Vittorias but have excellent puncture resistance. For this combination they are worth the cost.

Marathon plus are OK on the Brompton because changing a tube is such a pain. Speed and grip are not the issue.

The summer fast bike uses Michelin pro-race. Fast, light, grippy. God’s own tyre Who cares about punctures when you can have this performance?

Horses for courses....
My point is that it is worth spending money on buying the best tyres for you/your bike and its uses.


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## freiston (12 Dec 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> Depends what combinations of qualities YOU want ;-)


I hope I didn't mislead with my question - I didn't mean it as a personal enquiry but as more of a rhetorical question, [partly to say that it's a value judgement based on an individual's requirements, values etc.] - so I think we're saying the same thing .
Personally, I'm still using the same tyres that came with my touring bike (Vittoria Randonneurs 32mm). I have no issue with them but have heard that the Randonneur Pro II is a much superior tyre, particularly on rolling resistance (both are very puncture resistant) and so, after seeing the folding version of the Pro II going very cheap at PlanetX [iirc], I have a couple waiting in the cupboard for when the current ones need replacing. I don't have a fast bike and I'd rather have no puncture than go a bit faster. My folding bike, like yours, has Marathon +. I hardly use the folder but when I do, I'm usually celebrating the fact that because of it, I'm not walking so I always see the Marathons as a big "step up" from the Vibrams


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## Vantage (13 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> For 5.5 miles stick with what you have. The elapsed difference between them and a narrower smoother tyre will be neither here nor there.



It depends on the tyre. 
There's a world of difference between a Marathon Greenguard and a Voyager Hyper. Or a Landcruiser and a Cityjet.
5 miles can be an excruciating half hour slog or a 25 minute pootle depending on the tyres used.


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## MikeG (13 Dec 2018)

Vantage said:


> ........My old Voyagers had a hum about them and they're one of the best rolling tyres out there.It's the air inside under pressure being bounced around inside a thin carcass



I don't understand this claim at all. How does air get "bounced around" inside a tyre? Why do some tyres "bounce the air around" more than others (the logic of your claim that hum comes from the air inside the tyres)? Don't forget that the pressurised air isn't actually inside the tyre, but inside an inner tube, so you have to explain how tyres differentially affect the tube and its contents.



> and tends to get louder as the pressure increases.......



Are you saying that air pressure changes with movement of the tyre, or are you saying that the more you pump your tyres up, the louder they are? If the latter, that is the converse of my experience: the harder my tyres, the quieter they are.


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## Vantage (13 Dec 2018)

It's just another case of me talking bollocks as usual. 
The air itself doesn't bounce around. It's the tyres vibrations from the ground surface travelling through the air and can be heard more clearly because there's less damping (for the sound) in a thin carcass tyre.
I found that the tyres hummed louder at certain air pressures in the higher range than lower but that's just me.


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## MichaelW2 (13 Dec 2018)

Rolling resistance is caused by tyre deformation and increases proportionately with speed.
Air resistance is caused by tyre width and increases with speed squared.
Weight is caused by more weight and affects changes in rotation speed (braking/acceleration) and climbing.

Wider tyres have less rolling resistance but more air resistance.
Thin walled tyres have lower weight and lower rolling resistance but are more vulnerable to damage and wear.
Tyre tread is useful in mud, loose surfaces and snow but almost no use on road (wet or dry) or ice. The buzzing sound of a knobbly tyre is your energy being converted to noise rather than speed.

The balance of characteristics you need depends on your individual need. A slow utility rider has different needs to a fast commuter. Tracks and trails are different to roads. Good summer roads are different to potholed night-time roads.
My all-round commute/utility/touring tyre is bog standard Schwalbe Marathon (not plus). Not the swiftest or toughest but a good balance for me. On my 26" urban bike I use fat, slick Schwalbe Big Apples which are remarkably swift for a fat tyre.


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## T675Rich (13 Dec 2018)

How much difference will a tyre with less tread make with frosty surfaces? It's starting to get a bit frosty in some places on my commute and this first time I have really ridden a bicycle in the winter. In my head I feel like my current tyres would be less likely to slip than smoother tyres but I wouldn't be surprised if I was way of in that belief.


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## MichaelW2 (13 Dec 2018)

T675Rich said:


> How much difference will a tyre with less tread make with frosty surfaces? It's starting to get a bit frosty in some places on my commute and this first time I have really ridden a bicycle in the winter. In my head I feel like my current tyres would be less likely to slip than smoother tyres but I wouldn't be surprised if I was way of in that belief.


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## T675Rich (13 Dec 2018)

Does that mean it is in my head?


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Dec 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> The summer fast bike uses Michelin pro-race. Fast, light, grippy. God’s own tyre Who cares about punctures when you can have this performance?.



I care about punctures. A lot. The roads I ride on are littered with potholes and road debris, so flimsy tyres are out of the question. Along with getting caught out in the rain unexpectedly and being drenched, punctures are the biggest negative factor about cycling. More than heavy traffic or getting verbal off idiots. It throws a big spanner in the works of estimated journey times and is highly inconvenient if you need to be somewhere at a particular time. Even finding your tyre flat at home when you first go to ride it is a nuisance, although if you have multiple bikes you can at least grab a different steed without undue delay, it still might mean riding the "wrong" bike for the type of journey you are making.
For hack use I have a motley collection of random old tyres, mostly of the cheapo far-eastern variety, to use up and wear out. These have come from skip salvages and secondhand bike purchases. I stick puncture-resistant tyre liners inside these and use them locally. So far the Fairy has stayed away. When I'm going further afield, when I _really really _don't want a puncture interrupting my ride, I run Schwalbe Delta Cruiser Plus or Marathon Originals (NOT M+) As far as I'm concerned they roll easily enough and have perfectly adequate grip and handling for leisure cycling, but I don't race and don't care about going fast or trying to minimise tyre weight. I would rather be a couple of minutes slower over 10 or 15 miles than have my ride interrupted by a roadside puncture repair.


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## nickyboy (14 Dec 2018)

T675Rich said:


> How much difference will a tyre with less tread make with frosty surfaces? It's starting to get a bit frosty in some places on my commute and this first time I have really ridden a bicycle in the winter. In my head I feel like my current tyres would be less likely to slip than smoother tyres but I wouldn't be surprised if I was way of in that belief.


You're right to question your first assumption
That bit of tread they put on tyres will have zero effect on the grip of the tyres. It is purely for marketing purposes. Slick or treaded tyres will be equally problematic in icy conditions. The only tyres that overcome this are those with a mechanical grip advantage ie studded winter tyres


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## Truth (14 Dec 2018)

I have only done maybe 150 miles on my new original marathons and I am happy so far . I find they roll absolutely fine and the grip does feel a lot better than my previous Zaffiro Vittoria . I have always had Conti Gatorskins in the past (the Vittoria's were on the bike when I bought it) and the current ones suit me better , they feel sturdier and grippier to me.
Just a laymans view on the topic really !


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## andrew_s (18 Dec 2018)

T675Rich said:


> How much difference will a tyre with less tread make with frosty surfaces? It's starting to get a bit frosty in some places on my commute and this first time I have really ridden a bicycle in the winter. In my head I feel like my current tyres would be less likely to slip than smoother tyres but I wouldn't be surprised if I was way of in that belief.


Thread on road tyres doesn't give any extra grip (a bit less, in fact), but can still be useful in that tyre squirm can give a bit of warning that you're getting close to the limit, rather than letting go suddenly. Ice would probably be sudden anyway, but you may get useful warning on frost if you're paying attention.
Tread can also be useful if there's leaf mulch or mud on the road.

What does make a difference is the rubber compound used in the tyre.
There are a few tyres (eg Continental Top Contact Winter II) that use the same compounds as are used in car winter tyres, and which can give enough grip to ride straight uphill on sheet ice at something like 8-10%.
Care is still needed, they aren't as good as studded tyres, but on the other hand they are a lot nicer to ride (read quicker).


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## xzenonuk (19 Dec 2018)

years ago i switched the 2.10 inch knobbly tyre's on my mountain bike to 1.75 or 1.65 tyres with no knobbles, it really changed the handling of my bike as in it would steer pretty rapid and the terrain felt rougher.

i got a few more mph added to my average speed just by changing the tyres, i suffered on any off road stuff though but they tyres worked through a few winters.

only put 2 inch knobblys on it a while back since i got a road bike that has 23mm slicks lol

i sprained my ankle on black ice with the smaller mtb tyres the other year, it was my fault though, i accellerated to take a turn and didnt notice i was on black ice 

last winter i almost came off a few times with my 2 inch tyres but experience saved me from coming off, i hate black ice.

pro tip if there is any sign of ice be wary of shaded areas as that is where the black ice likes to hide


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## Alan O (20 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> ...Marathon Originals (NOT M+)...


I was horrified a couple of weeks ago to have my first flat tyre when riding on Marathon Originals (which have the additional advantage of still being available in 27 x 1 1/4 size). I could see no obvious puncture and it was a fairly slow flat, so I pumped up and tried again, but it was flat again within a few hundred metres. So I stopped and replaced the tube and carried on home, planning to find the puncture and fix it in the warm comfort of home.

I only just got round to checking it this morning, and it's weird. Immersed fully in a sink of water and then pumped up, it deflates quickly... but with no bubbles. Clearly the air must be escaping back through the (Schrader) valve, so I pumped up again and quickly disconnected the pump... and it stayed inflated.

But I conclude that it's a failed valve and that riding pressure was making it leak even without a pump attached. I've thrown it away - which offends my hatred for waste, as I only like discarding a tube when there's no room between the patches for more patches.

But at least I know that my beloved Marathon Originals have still not had a puncture.


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## DCBassman (20 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> I've thrown it away - which offends my hatred for waste, as I only like discarding a tube


So why not replace just the core?


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## Alan O (20 Dec 2018)

DCBassman said:


> So why not replace just the core?


Hadn't thought of that - is it easy to replace a Schrader core?


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## DCBassman (20 Dec 2018)

They just unscrew, although you need the appropriate tool. Any motor factors should be able to supply both tool and cores. There are different length cores, but I've used whatever I've had in bikes and cars with no problems.


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## Alan O (20 Dec 2018)

DCBassman said:


> They just unscrew, although you need the appropriate tool. Any motor factors should be able to supply both tool and cores. There are different length cores, but I've used whatever I've had in bikes and cars with no problems.


Thanks - yes, it looks like a tool is needed to poke down inside the valve. I'll investigate, for the fun of learning new mechanical stuff if nothing else


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## SkipdiverJohn (20 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> I was horrified a couple of weeks ago to have my first flat tyre when riding on Marathon Originals ...... Clearly the air must be escaping back through the (Schrader) valve, so I pumped up again and quickly disconnected the pump... and it stayed inflated.
> But I conclude that it's a failed valve and that riding pressure was making it leak even without a pump attached. I've thrown it away - which offends my hatred for waste, as I only like discarding a tube when there's no room between the patches for more patches.
> But at least I know that my beloved Marathon Originals have still not had a puncture.



One trick I've tried for sticky Shrader valves is to give the valve a quick blast of WD40 then pump up the tyre immediately, followed by a further squirt after inflation. I'm sure that forcing air in also forces in some lube and helps prevent sticking.
The other trick I use is fitting old-fashioned metal valve caps in place of the plastic ones that come with tubes, as I believe they tend to seal better. I don't throw tubes (or tyres) away either unless they are absolutely knackered, and scrap tubes get used as chain sleeves or mounting bracket packing material.


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