# Doping in other sports



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


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## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------



## montage (17 Jan 2013)

I just dug up this article .... with the current media hate on Lance Armstrong and the rest of us cyclists, I wonder, did anything actually come of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/21/gary-neville-england-glenn-hoddle

Link is Gary Neville talking about the managements use of doping, handing out injections saying it would make them run faster!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Lysergic acid enhanced darts can be lethal.


----------



## User169 (18 Jan 2013)

Nothing to worry about in tennis..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


 
Andy Murray is a dope.


----------



## oldroadman (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Or track and field, swimming, marathon running, rugby, or any other sport where there is money to be made ..simple fact is some people will cheat in any profession they think it will work and they can get away with it. Bankers being a good (non-chemical except maybe an alleged bit of snow up the nose) example!


----------



## GBC (18 Jan 2013)

Delftse Post said:


> Nothing to worry about in tennis..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations


Did Murray and, I think, Federer not speak out last year about the lack of doping control in tennis? I seem to recall him saying that he had only been tested five times in the whole of the previous year.


----------



## zizou (18 Jan 2013)

EPO was being used by Juventus in the mid 90s before it really caught on in cycling. They won 2 champions league during that period (not just on EPO but they were taking other things too) - no one seems to care though, certainly no talk of stripping their medals or how every winner since is tainted because someone cheated in the past and got away with it. In more recent years some clubs have been up front about their use of blood spinning to improve recovery times. Seemingly acceptable and no controversy, but if a cyclist does it then it is a doping scandal (and rightly so).

At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?

As for tennis, it is pretty dirty too but most fans and the media dont seem to care and instead prefer to believe fairy tales about sleeping in magic eggs and being stuck in panic rooms.


----------



## thom (18 Jan 2013)

zizou said:


> At the moment there are alot of connections with Spanish football (in particular Barcelona) and doping - much of it circumstantial it has to be said - however what is clear is that the best player in the world took HGH in his teens - fair enough perhaps there are medical reasons for this. However this treatment was paid for by his current club who have then gained the benefit in subsequent years - why is that acceptable but East Germany doping athletes as teens in the 1980s not?


Messi suffered from congenital growth hormone deficiency for which HGH is a normal treatment innit ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (18 Jan 2013)

There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


----------



## tigger (18 Jan 2013)

Don't mention tennis. Gotta love the way the ATP acted with Agassi's Crystal Meth "spiking"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/8329193.stm


----------



## albion (18 Jan 2013)

Just look at Boxing.
World champions insist on plenty of pre-fight doping tests so the fight does not take place.

And it does not take a dope to think that doping in tennis is a nice little racket.


----------



## ayceejay (18 Jan 2013)

Remember that Canadian kid who lost his snowboarding medal for using performance enhancing drugs, whoever decided that had never smoked a joint and that's for sure.
"Oh wow, which way to the snow man?"


----------



## laurence (18 Jan 2013)

anyone who thinks cycling is the only sport with drug use is seriously deluded.

anyone who thinks cycling has the worst drug problem of any sport, ditto.

i wonder if they will ever release the names of the other sports people in the Puerto case. methinks money will cover it up somewhat.


----------



## Nebulous (18 Jan 2013)

I'm quite cynical about most top level sport. I've never followed cycling to any extent, but was very keen on watching athletics. Ben Johnson's 100 metres in 1988 was so exciting that I could barely sleep afterwards, then the drug results came out. I've hardly watched an athletics meet since. I then transferred my attention to Formula 1, I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

So for various reasons I'm cynical about most sport - however I do think cycling has a special problem. It maybe one of perception, it maybe the lingering shadow of amateurism versus professional sport, but whatever it is; if you say 'Worst sport for drug-taking?' to the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus then he's going to reply cycling.


----------



## davefb (18 Jan 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> There was even the use of beta blockers in snooker.


bill werbenek ( crikey it can't be spelt like that  ), who also drank up to 30pints a day during matches ?!

the funniest is the bans on diurectics (?) , which causes problems for the older bowls players ..

I think the point is true though, some sports have sorted themselves out and got better testing regimes ( it's pretty obvious cyclings lack of testing out of competition was a flaw !), but others havent, eg football appears to avoid doing so.


----------

