# A very delicate issue - (ahem) - (ladies may choose to skip this !)



## CPD (9 Dec 2009)

Since about mid-November I have clocked up approximately 175 miles spread over 15 rides, and the miles are beginning to build nicely ( I am aiming to do 125 miles this week alone). I have a hybrid and so far have ridden 98% on rural roads and A-roads mostly in good condition but with the odd pot hole etc.

I find the bike actually quite comfortable and have mostly got over/ used to the aches and pains that I guess are inevitable after a (very) long break from any cycling. I am 45 / 15.5stone. 

However, I am developing what seems to be a constant numbness in "my old man". The "veg" are fine. Now, is this another "pain/ache" type thing that my body will get used to over time, or do I need to look at changing my saddle ?. I ride exclusively in the sitting position but more and more I am having to stand whilst moving (not pedalling) to get some feeling back in thew whole "area". I know there are gel type saddles and those with the central support almost cut away to relieve the pressure - should I be looking at those, and if so, does anyone have any recommendations they care to make ?.

I could go to the doctors I guess but I doubt they would be of much use with something like this.

This is my bike. Thanks for your help .


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## I am Spartacus (9 Dec 2009)

I am going to purposely avoid answering your question apart from 
is that saddle completely level?
Depending on your height usually the saddle will be at least a few centimetres higher than your handlebars.. but will allow that it will depend on your frame..
However...
remove those spoke reflectors
get that on the big cr and little cog for the pimp shot
remove the cruddy plastic from behind the cassette
and yes , some nicely fitted mudguards to keep the winter shoot off you and the bike to do more miles
and what are those excuses for pedals??? grief

oh yeah .. the cold weather can play havoc with the JTs


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## ChrisKH (9 Dec 2009)

It's very shiny. The bike that is. How do you keep it so clean?

I would reiterate level saddle. And if it's level then a change of saddle may be called for.


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## beancounter (9 Dec 2009)

It's a common problem and something that used to happen to me, until I switched to saddles with a good sized cut out, like this:-

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25467

No problems any more.

bc


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## gregster (9 Dec 2009)

There is another thread on here about saddle position and numb bits which may be worth checking out. 
However, I think the best thing you could do is to get to your LBS, pay them a few quid to have a professional look at your riding position and get them to tell you what's wrong. Pointless spending £50+ on a new saddle if you can resolve the problem with a minor adjustment. 
With regards to the saddle, the biggest problem is not having enough support on the bum bones that take most of your weight while sitting, ie if your saddle is too narrow most of the weight will be on your perenieum (?), the bit between you know what and you know where!!! The nerve endings in there will get squashed and cut off feeling to him! 
Hope that is of help!


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## snorri (9 Dec 2009)

First thing is, don't worry about people making fashion statements about your bicycle, the important thing is you have a bicycle and are _using_ it and not allowing it to gather cobwebs in a shed. 
Regarding the errr problem. You should not have to suffer this, and usually a seat adjustment can help matters. A new seat may be the answer, but gel saddles are not usually a solution as they result in more squeezing of the vitals.


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## Hollyhillian (9 Dec 2009)

I had a problem with numbness for quite a while until I spent some money on good quality bib shorts with a proper anotomical pad inside rather than a simple foam pad. Also for me, I found it has become better the more I ride. I guess I'm getting used to it.
As already mentioned though, check your saddle height and position and consider a replacent saddle as well ,it could be that the saddle you have simply doesn't suit you.


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## HJ (9 Dec 2009)

The Spesh BG Saddles were invented to deal with just this problem...


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## Arch (9 Dec 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> and what are those excuses for pedals??? grief



Don't be so rude. Those are perfectly fine, and ideal if the rider wants to try toeclips and ride in any old shoes. You might be having a joke, but Beginners is not the place to flaunt your 'wit'....

Sorry CPD, I can't help much (being a lady, yes, I dared look...), but the advice about getting a fitting and tweaking the saddle level sounds spot on. You want the weight to be on your sit bones - that is what they are designed for...

I don't suffer numbness, sometimes I'd prefer it to a sore bum! But I imagine the pins and needles when the feeling comes back is not good!

Anway, welcome!


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## phil_hg_uk (9 Dec 2009)

I used to get that problem tries loads of saddles including a specialized BG saddles with no change until I got one of these -> 

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=32061

nice comfy riding now, even 100 mile rides no problem.


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## ASC1951 (9 Dec 2009)

CPD said:


> I am developing what seems to be a constant numbness in "my old man". The "veg" are fine.... I ride exclusively in the sitting position but more and more I am having to stand whilst moving (not pedalling) to get some feeling back in thew whole "area".


From personal experience the problem *could* be the type of saddle or clothing, but is more likely to be saddle height/position/angle or some other set-up issue. Saddles are a very individual matter, but +1 from me for having a proper cycle fitting, which was definitely the best £50 I have ever spent in a bike shop. Once you have the measurements you can, with a few tweaks, apply them to every bike you will ever own. 

Now, this is important. Occasional numbness a couple of times on a long ride, which is relieved when you stand up for 20 seconds or so - fine. Constant numbness - not fine at all. You can do yourself significant permanent damage if you regularly ride with a pinched nerve or restricted blood supply.

Don't ignore the problem.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (9 Dec 2009)

this may sound like doing the wrong thing, but just try tilting the nose of the saddle up by an inch. it worked for me with my last saddle. i think i read it on the sheldonbrown website. hth


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## gbb (9 Dec 2009)

Hollyhillian said:


> I had a problem with numbness for quite a while until I spent some money on good quality bib shorts with a proper anotomical pad inside rather than a simple foam pad. Also for me, I found it has become better the more I ride. I guess I'm getting used to it.
> As already mentioned though, check your saddle height and position and consider a replacent saddle as well ,it could be that the saddle you have simply doesn't suit you.



+1.
I have the Ponza saddle on both my road bikes and used to suffer very occasionally with numbness...but it passed, perhaps as Hollyhillan states with riding more.
Also, i found the Ponza quite a hard saddle at first, but noticed the older one is slowly forming to my shape, its a little depressed where my bones sit. This may be true of all saddles, it may not.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Dec 2009)

For starters (on account of it's free and easy) put a large hardback book on your saddle, then a spirit level, pointing fore/aft. Is the bubble centred? If not, adjust till it is. That's your starting point. If that doesn't sort it, move on...


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## yenrod (9 Dec 2009)

*CPD* - try 1 of these ! *well* and truly recommended !

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=32061


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## Randochap (9 Dec 2009)

Agree that a small saddle adjustment may be all that's needed. Looks nose down to me. If you are sliding forward, that puts undue pressure on the perineum.

You may need to level the saddle, as others have noted.

Also, make sure the saddle is under you. That might mean sliding it forward on the rails. An "upright" riding position by design puts more pressure on the butt, so these are important adjustments. If the bike isn't ideally sized, you may need to change your stem length. Maybe your stem is too long.

I would encourage you to see an experienced fitter (who isn't married to racing orthodoxy) and you might glean some info from VeloWeb's bike fit page (linked from below).

Only after experimenting, spend the money for new saddle(s), which most regular cyclists have a drawer full.

Oh, and proper shorts are a must.


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## Browser (9 Dec 2009)

Arch said:


> Don't be so rude. Those are perfectly fine, and ideal if the rider wants to try toeclips and ride in any old shoes. You might be having a joke, but Beginners is not the place to flaunt your 'wit'....



Seconded. _You_ might be gods gift to cycling Arch but we all have to start somewhere 



Arch said:


> Sorry CPD, I can't help much (being a lady, yes, I dared look...)



Rubbish, 'daring' had nowt to do wi' it, yer a woman, who was told _not _to look at summat, so naturally you just _had_ to get a peek   



Randochap said:


> .....may need to change your stem length. Maybe your stem is too long.



How d'you know how long his 'stem' is, have you seen photographs of him we haven't?  

Returning to the thread's original subject, I got a 'Men's comfort' saddle for Halfrauds after suffering the self-same 'numbness' and it made all the difference.
Now all I get is what I term the 'North Sea' effect (after a Billy Conolly joke) where things tend to shrink due to the cold


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## TheCyclingRooster (9 Dec 2009)

The reference to:- the ladies may choose to skip this is (excuse me)Bo**ocks.The problem affects the female form as well.Just because they don't have an obvious Penis does not preclude them(not all)from the same discomfort,what do you think they pass urine through?.The problem is pressure on the Perineum,a region between the Anus and Scrotum(Vulva in the female)and a reduction in blood flow affecting the nerves in the region(some refer to it as Numb Nuts)which is crap because it does not affect the testicles.The backward tilt on the saddle can be a cause,as already mentioned by a previous contribution input. If the sit bones are correctly supported many will find a reduction or total relief from the problem.The best result is achieved with a saddle that supports correctly, combined with a Pressure Relief Channel in that saddle.Your local Specialized Shop will have a cushion pad that shows where the sit bone pressure points are when sat on.They also have a very wide range of saddles from approx' £25 to a bank overdraft figure.I have had the problem(now no longer an issue) and my Lady Friend is now a very happy & comfortable bunny because she has followed my line and had it sorted.Safe, Happy & Comfortable Riding to you All.


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## Randochap (9 Dec 2009)

Browser said:


> Seconded. _You_ might be gods gift to cycling Arch but we all have to start somewhere
> How d'you know how long his 'stem' is, have you seen photographs of him we haven't?



Irony detector alarm.

WTF up your nose?

A stem too long will make a rider "reach" pulling them onto the nose of the saddle. It was a suggestion of possible fit issues to be checked. That's what could give him a numb stem.

On yer bike.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Dec 2009)

'an obvious penis'?


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## Browser (10 Dec 2009)

Randochap said:


> Irony detector alarm.
> 
> WTF up your nose?
> 
> ...




Nowt up my nose, apart from Arch being rather too 'arch' in his post, thats all.
As far as the 'stem' comment, that was a whoosh for you I think (i.e. whooshed over your head) as I was making a Carry On-style inuendo reference to 'stems' and their, ahem, length 

So on _yer_ bike, and last one to the corner shop buys the next quarter of cola bottles


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## Randochap (10 Dec 2009)

Browser said:


> Nowt up my nose, apart from Arch being rather too 'arch' in his post, thats all.
> As far as the 'stem' comment, that was a whoosh for you I think (i.e. whooshed over your head) as I was making a Carry On-style inuendo reference to 'stems' and their, ahem, length
> 
> So on _yer_ bike, and last one to the corner shop buys the next quarter of cola bottles



No whoosh/ Re-read my comment. You whooshed it.

And I agree re comment, but wasn't it IAS who was rude? It was par for his course.


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## Globalti (10 Dec 2009)

To the OP: you don't say if you are wearing proper padded cycling shorts or not. This is the first thing to try, worn next to the skin - no pants underneath! For a great value for money short look at the dhb gear, Wiggle's own brand. I strongly recommend these: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/dhb_Earnley_Cycling_Bib_Shorts/5360024489/ A bib short has the advantage that it doesn't slip down. In winter wear them under your tights or a pair of Ron Hill Tracksters.

Next, as others mentioned before the thread began to wander a little, your saddle looks a bit too flat. Experiment with tilting the nose up a couple of degrees; this will force you to sit further back on the wider part transferring your weight to your sit bones. Also experiment with the position of the saddle on the rails, I notice in your pic that it's right back, try moving it forward which again will put more weight on the rear of the saddle. Is the saddle at the right height? There's lots on the web about saddle height and position so I won't bother trying to explain here.The website of Sheldon Brown is a good resource here.

There are so many things you need to get sorted before you start experimenting with different saddles. Your sitting position is fundamental and you must get this right before you start messing around with the rest of the bike.

Nice bike by the way - what is it?


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## swee'pea99 (10 Dec 2009)

Rigid Raider said:


> I strongly recommend these: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/dhb_Earnley_Cycling_Bib_Shorts/5360024489/



I think the picture at that link is about the gayest image I've ever seen. Makes Village People look like the All Blacks.


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## levad (10 Dec 2009)

I had exactly the same issue when I started cycling for more than 2 hours in the saddle. I found the price of saddles a bit steep for a "lets just see if its the saddle" test. I had already tried many different adjustments.

Then I found this http://www.rido-cyclesaddles.com/ and puchased one.

It has made the world of difference, I used it for Oxford to Cambridge this year, 90 miles in 5 hours, with absolutly no ill effect whatsoever.


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## Arch (10 Dec 2009)

Browser said:


> Nowt up my nose, apart from Arch being rather too 'arch' in his post, thats all.



Um, hang on, I was just telling I am Sparticus off for being rude about the pedals - and didn't you second my remark? I'm certainly not god's gift to cycling, I just happen to enjoy it, and I don't have hangups about what sort of equipment is 'right' or 'wrong' - it's what suits the rider that counts.

And then, you had a go at me for being a woman and looking when I wasn't supposed to. And yet you still said 'his' above.... Have you tried turning your head off and back on again, I think you've got a bug of some sort...

Now watch it, or I'll start a thread on mooncups.

If anyone's going to the shop, I'm not keen on cola bottles, can I get a quarter of chocolate buttons please?


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## levad (10 Dec 2009)

Arch said:


> Um, hang on, I was just telling I am Sparticus off for being rude about the pedals - and didn't you second my remark? I'm certainly not god's gift to cycling, I just happen to enjoy it, and I don't have hangups about what sort of equipment is 'right' or 'wrong' - it's what suits the rider that counts.
> 
> And then, you had a go at me for being a woman and looking when I wasn't supposed to. And yet you still said 'his' above.... Have you tried turning your head off and back on again, I think you've got a bug of some sort...
> 
> ...



Now I am a male type person but have heard that these are fantastic....


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## Arch (10 Dec 2009)

levad said:


> Now I am a male type person but have heard that these are fantastic....



Well, I'm a convert. Many chaps go a bit green when they are mentioned...

However, let's not scare CPD off....


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## Browser (10 Dec 2009)

New rule for Browser; Don't post when you are on nights, you are obviously not compos mentis enough to know to whom you are referring.
As you quite correctly said Arch, it indeed was I Am Spartacus who was being rather scathing about pedal choice, which is indeed what it is, choice, after all! ANd no, I agree with you, you probably aren't gods gift to cycling and neither am I (unlike IAS who is ).
I've just Googled Mooncups and have instantly turned Jade green 
Oh, I've done a Microsoft reset on my head, normal GIGO service _will_ be resumed.
And I wasn't having a go at you for being a woman Arch, just for _behaving _like a typical one 
Randochap, I'm pulling the plug as I believe we started at different ends of the irony/sarcasm line and messages got confusticated on the way through. I was trying, as is my wont, to be flippant about your serious reply, WRT stem length, to CPDs original post about numb bits and make a joke about the length of his 'stem' but it fell flatter than a pancake under a steamroller, so I'll get me coat and leg it before I get into any more bother!


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## andyfromotley (10 Dec 2009)

OP your thread has now been hijacked, distorted argued over and a bit of huffing and puffing thrown in for good measure.

Welcome to CC.


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## Arch (10 Dec 2009)

We all have off days.


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## I am Spartacus (10 Dec 2009)

Arch said:


> Don't be so rude. Those are perfectly fine, and ideal if the rider wants to try toeclips and ride in any old shoes. You might be having a joke, but Beginners is not the place to flaunt your 'wit'....
> 
> Sorry CPD, I can't help much (being a lady, yes, I dared look...), but the advice about getting a fitting and tweaking the saddle level sounds spot on. You want the weight to be on your sit bones - that is what they are designed for...
> 
> ...



Nothing to do with wit and I wasnt being rude .. I was being right
Chances are Op will be back in 3 months posting knee pain with poor quality pedal stroke.

Oh maybe he is 10, then I'll let him off


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## Arch (10 Dec 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> Nothing to do with wit and I wasnt being rude .. I was being right
> Chances are Op will be back in 3 months posting knee pain with poor quality pedal stroke.
> 
> Oh maybe he is 10, then I'll let him off



They look just like the pedals I've done 1500 miles on this summer, with no problem.

The OP may well have been embarassed enough posting his question, so let's lay off being snobby about pedals.


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## I am Spartacus (10 Dec 2009)

Again. not being 'snobby' jeeesus leave my class out of it, I can't help my birth..
actually going back to the OP .. mentions having to stand up out of saddle.. if he does that on a regular basis on a pair of flatties, well its asking for another squish of his JT.


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## Arch (10 Dec 2009)

Come on, snobby in this case is nothing to do with class and you know it.

Maybe you can only ride in fancy shoes and fancy pedals. Millions of people manage perfectly well on pedals like those - including me.


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## I am Spartacus (18 Dec 2009)

I have only just got round to answering the underlying insult ... grrrr





yes I do possess flatties... but as you can see from the direction of the reflector, I mainly use the spd side
I'll try to refrain from further snobbery however..
huffnpuff
B)


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## Ademort (21 Dec 2009)

Before you buy a new saddle try pointing the saddle down a little. I have a few Dutch colleagues with the same problem and they say with the saddle pointed down a little it helps enormousely. I am going out from the fact that you have comfy padded shorts and your position on the bike is good.


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## chap (23 Dec 2009)

Admittedly, I have not read all the responses, but this generally suggests tht there is excess pressure being put on your Perrineum. This is *not* something you should get used to, as continued pressure can have an adverse effect on your ... family tree.

Instead, I suggest you do the following in order (quiting when it stops):


Read this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html Sheldon Browns advice withstands the sands of time.
Buy a saddle with a cut-out e.g. Brooks Imperial
Go to the doctor to seek advice


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## lukesdad (23 Dec 2009)

chap said:


> Admittedly, I have not read all the responses, but this generally suggests tht there is excess pressure being put on your Perrineum. This is *not* something you should get used to, as continued pressure can have an adverse effect on your ... family tree.
> 
> Instead, I suggest you do the following in order (quiting when it stops):
> 
> ...


Lukesmum would agree with you she swears we didnt have kids till late on because of cycling.


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## harry dunn (27 Dec 2009)

Saddles are a personal chice what suits one may be no good for another , get your bike set up properly first , then think about changing saddles.Check the hight by pedal at 6 oclock and placing your heel on it leg fully extended when sitting , check out the distance from bars is correct elbow on nose of saddle finger tips extended . Finger ends should be jus behind the handle bars .Saddle should be level or slightly down at the front ( unless you ride bmx.)
If this doesnt help get a big cushion preferably in front of the tele.


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## CPD (6 Jan 2010)

A quick update.

I haven't ridden the bike over christmas and new year. The numbness is still there thought gradually improving and it is rather worrying how long it is taking to return to "normal". "Performance" has most definitely been affected, so not good.

Following your very kind advice, I have sourced two saddles with "cut-outs" and will conduct trials when the time is right.

So thanks again to all.

Oh, and thanks to those who took their clearly precious and invaluble time to point out the deficiencies with my bike. When I am big, I too hope to have shiny black pedals, just like yours .


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## knapdog (6 Jan 2010)

*swee'pea99:The palindrome of Bolton would be notloB* 


Do you know what a Palindrome is?


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