# Thinking Of My Next Bike.



## Motozulu (30 Oct 2012)

After riding a mate's Orange 5 I have realised how heavy and cumbersome my bike is - I was always going to upgrade next year and so on that, as soon as Spring comes I'll be taking the plunge. I obviously want lighter, better kit than my current Merida Matts 300 (deffo forks) and I'm staying HT.
This little beauty has caught the eye, but I'm a little bit unsure about buying from abroad, tbh.
What do you think of the bike and do you think for the money it's a good choice or could I do better and buy in the UK?

http://www.radon-bikes.de/xist4c/web/Black-Sin-6-0_id_22281_.htm

Confused of Staffs.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2012)

What sort of riding do you do now? How might this change on the new bike?


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## Motozulu (30 Oct 2012)

Off road - i live local to Cannock so the dog/monkey or if it's busy the 15 mile blue route.
It's mostly weight I think - I know as I carry on I'll get fitter but right now I could'nt believe the difference when I had a short go on my mates Orange5 - it felt like I was floating up the hill  he thinks most of my bikes front end heaviness is down to the suntour xcm's it came with - spose I could try upgrading them instead?


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## lulubel (30 Oct 2012)

From what I've learned here, upgrading the forks would make a huge difference, but it isn't going to take over 3kg off the weight of your bike, which I think is what you're looking at.

I ordered a bike from Bike Discount a couple of weeks ago, as I'm sure you and everyone else know, and (according to the very detailed tracking) it's going to be delivered tomorrow, so I'll be able to say more from personal experience, but in the mean time ....

Do you particularly want a carbon frame/SRAM components, or is it just for the weight saving?

You could get the Radon ZR Race 7.0 for €300 less. It's a few hundred grams heavier, and it has Shimano XT instead of SRAM X9. Or the Race 6.0 is still a much better spec and 2.5kg lighter than the current model of your Merida, and €600 less than the one you're looking at.

It depends on how much money you really want/are prepared to spend. And I love throwing more options into the mix!

(I hope I feel like I'm floating up the hills on my new bike. I'm OK with climbing, but it would be nice to be able to do it faster.)


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## Cubist (30 Oct 2012)

If a Five felt like you were floating I shudder to think what your Merida must ride like!

@GilesM will be along in a minute to say how lovely Fives are, and I wouldn't disagree.


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## Motozulu (30 Oct 2012)

Thanks Lulubel and yes I'm looking forward to your reports.

Bloody hard is'nt it? at first it was just weight, then I noticed that that particular bike had Avid brakes, but another bike had XT kit and was cheaper, but was slightly heavier. I suppose it still is mainly weight, but I want good kit on it too for my money.


*watches budget slowly creeping up*


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## Motozulu (30 Oct 2012)

Cubist - now I've 'tasted' another bike...it rides like a pig who is being fattened for slaughter that has just had a huge fish and chip supper as a last meal


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## tigger (30 Oct 2012)

Lightweight, great spec, racey geometry. 

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/PBOOWHIPX9/on_one_carbon_whippet_x9_complete_bike


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## lulubel (30 Oct 2012)

More expensive than the Radon, though, and similar spec.


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## lulubel (30 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> If a Five felt like you were floating I shudder to think what your Merida must ride like!


 
The big(ger) lbs in our town sells mainly Merida so there are naturally a few people round here riding them. I think they're fine if you can afford to get a decent spec, but you seem to get a lot less for your money in terms of components and weight than with some of the other brands. Assuming Motozulu's Matts 300 weighs the 13.8kg quoted at Bike Discount, that's 200g heavier than the €260 BH I've been riding around on, and at nearly 3 times the price!


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## Motozulu (31 Oct 2012)

Yep you are correct Lulubel - I was'nt best advised at the time of getting my first bike - my fault as I only went to the nearest LBS to me who was obviously more interested in pushing the Merida on me than giving me the best deal. You live and learn.
At least second time around I have an idea of what I want and if I can't stretch to a carbon mtb then it'll certainly be something a bit lighter than my Merida.


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Yep you are correct Lulubel - I was'nt best advised at the time of getting my first bike - my fault as I only went to the nearest LBS to me who was obviously more interested in pushing the Merida on me than giving me the best deal. You live and learn.
> At least second time around I have an idea of what I want and if I can't stretch to a carbon mtb then it'll certainly be something a bit lighter than my Merida.


LBS in selling the inexperienced what they want to get shot of not what you need/want. Surely not?

You'll not beat the German sellers, either the direct boys like Radon and Canyon or the box shifters like bike-discount.de in the vfm stakes I reckon. Unless you get lucky with something in a sale somewhere.

If you're the sort that needs to touch it and see it before you buy it the off web from Europe route isn't for you. If you know what size you need, and are comfortable with the distance buying model, and slim possibility of warranty issues being a drag, then go for it. The Radon looks like it would suit what you want to do and then some.


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## Motozulu (31 Oct 2012)

Cheers Greg - yeah, what a dope eh? far too trusting that's me. 

You learn though - at least now with the Merida I have a comparison and know the size I want - the Radon looks like a bike I could seriously live with...roll on Spring!


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## GilesM (5 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> If a Five felt like you were floating I shudder to think what your Merida must ride like!
> 
> @GilesM will be along in a minute to say how lovely Fives are, and I wouldn't disagree.


 
The Five is lovely, and I'll tell anyone who's prepared to be bored rigid how lovely,  however, I agree with you, if it appears to float up hill compared to a HT, the HT must be pretty poor, I was out on my Orange Elite on Saturday, now that does float up hills, but as soon as the trails went down, I wished I was on my Five.


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## Motozulu (5 Nov 2012)

The mates Orange was a HT - maybe it was'nt a 5 then?  all I know is it felt bloody great compared to mine.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Cheers Greg - yeah, what a dope eh? far too trusting that's me.
> 
> You learn though - at least now with the Merida I have a comparison and know the size I want - the Radon looks like a bike I could seriously live with...*roll on Spring!*


Amen bro, I bagged a secondhand FS for that and am currently winterising my HT by converting to 2 x 9


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## Motozulu (9 Nov 2012)

Ok after some serious soul (and bank balance) searching - I cannot for the life of me see how my £1,000 could be better spent than on the Boardman HT Pro - I reckon for another £300 on top (just do-able) I could end up with the carbon jobbie version..

Can anyone please convince me as to why I should not - before I spend the next 5 years at Cannock getting blokes on Treks looking at me and going 'Pfft - is that a Boardman? from Halfords? sniff'.

This is heavy stuff - my street cred could be in jeapordy here. 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId_777721_langId_-1_categoryId_165499#tab2

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId_777751_langId_-1_categoryId_165499#tab2


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Nov 2012)

The geometry of an HT Pro is quiet racy, even with the 120mm fork fitted. This means,_ if the rider doesn't have the skills to cope_, the bike can become quite a handful when things go downwards steeply on technical terrain. Slack it ain't. Add to that tyres which are not the best - unless you get lucky and find a given bike has black chilli compounds on - for wet rock and roots.

But I'd buy one in a flash. Fantastic vfm for the overall package.

Drago will be along in a minute with one of his anti-bling 'high spec components doesn't a good bike make' comments,


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## Motozulu (9 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the answer mate - I could always change it's shoes and as for the geometry - I like a challenge  I am getting better and more confident all the time and the racy geom will only improve me I reckon. The Trek 8.7 for £1300 can't compete with the Carbon pro in my eyes so it looks like I will have to take the sneers of other bikers but safe in the knowledge that I've bagged a bit of a blinkin' bikin bargain.


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## VamP (9 Nov 2012)

Honestly, if the image will bother you then don't do it. It wouldn't bother me, but then I have long ago stopped to care what others think. Ultimately I'd rather be the one on the ''cheap'' bike shredding the trail, than on the superbike, pootling around and worrying about photo ops.
The carbon one does look pretty appealing, and more importantly - fast! A better wheelset, with some better rubber down the road and you're made up.

I wouldn't worry about the geometry too much, the 120mm forks take the sting out, and it does give you the racing option too!


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## Motozulu (9 Nov 2012)

> Honestly, if the image will bother you then don't do it. It wouldn't bother me, but then I have long ago stopped to care what others think. Ultimately I'd rather be the one on the ''cheap'' bike shredding the trail, than on the superbike, pootling around and worrying about photo ops.
> The carbon one does look pretty appealing, and more importantly - fast! A better wheelset, with some better rubber down the road and you're made up.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the geometry too much, the 120mm forks take the sting out, and it does give you the racing option too!


 
Great answer and yes, I think I'm off to Halfords on Monday to have a chat with 'em. Seems the best of both worlds to me the carbon pro.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Thanks for the answer mate - I could always change it's shoes and as for the geometry - I like a challenge  I am getting better and more confident all the time and the racy geom will only improve me I reckon. The Trek 8.7 for £1300 can't compete with the Carbon pro in my eyes so it looks like I will have to take the sneers of other bikers but safe in the knowledge that I've bagged a bit of a blinkin' bikin bargain.


Ride within its performance envelope and you'll love it. Try to keep up with, or ride the same lines as, a skilled rider on a good full bounce AM or enduro design on a black run and you may wake up in A&E 

Heck, at least I woke up!


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Great answer and yes, I think I'm off to Halfords on Monday to have a chat with 'em. Seems the best of both worlds to me the carbon pro.


Are you a competent wrench? If not, budget to have it looked over by someone who is, or by a good lbs.

That said Guildford Halfords built mine faultlessly. You may find not all branches can sell or stock the pro's though this may have changed.


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## Motozulu (9 Nov 2012)

Not a competent wrench by any means Greg - my workmate's Dad is though (he's raced em for years) and he said he'd check it over as I've heard Halfords bike set up can be 'sketchy' too. I'll see what Halfords say but can't get the bike until Feb anyway (my company's only 'cycle to work scheme' window) so plenty of time for em to order it in. I have a healthy fear of pain so I don't overstretch myself - well, not since last time I came off anyway.


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## Motozulu (13 Nov 2012)

First attempts at securing the carbon Boardman not gone well. Explained to the bod there that I wanted to stick my own £300 on top of the grand off the bike scheme to purchase one and he was'nt having it! said they could'nt do that. Then went to 2 LBS's who were both more than happy for me to do the same on a Trek and a Cannondale  WTFeck is all that about? Halford's turning down good money just on a technicality - I know that strictly speaking the cycle to work scheme stipulates a maximum £1,000 but has anyone else had this problem?


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> First attempts at securing the carbon Boardman not gone well. Explained to the bod there that I wanted to stick my own £300 on top of the grand off the bike scheme to purchase one and he was'nt having it! said they could'nt do that. Then went to 2 LBS's who were both more than happy for me to do the same on a Trek and a Cannondale  WTFeck is all that about? Halford's turning down good money just on a technicality - I know that strictly speaking the cycle to work scheme stipulates a maximum £1,000 but has anyone else had this problem?


They are the rules. Now it may well be plenty of folk break 'em but...


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## Motozulu (13 Nov 2012)

Yes Greg - I'm afraid I was showing my well honed ignorance (gained from a lifetime of taking too much no notice ).

The LBS's readiness to be , ahem, 'flexible' over the grand limit threw me.

I raised the same thread on singletrack - where the kind folk there put me right via the use of words like 'Tax' and 'Fraud'. I now have a better understanding of the niceties of the C2W scheme. I'm still bloody tempted by the Trek 8.7 tbh and may still take up the LBS's offer to accept the £300 on top - seems I'm the only one that can lose out if the Company goes bust/I lose my job etc. Otherwise it's the ali HT pro for a grand.


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Nov 2012)

The finance dept at work reports to me. As a result staying exactly where we are on the HMRC radar is a priority. I can't be seen to be bending the C2W rules for myself. Nor can I be seen to be allowing staff in my line to be bending them. If makes me a little picky about 'rules'. Others may find the flexibility offered by Evans et al more to their liking.

That and I don't buy the advantages of a carbon frame over ali as I'm a Clydesdale.


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## lulubel (13 Nov 2012)

I have to say I'd find Halfords' attitude frustrating, to say the least. Bending the rules is normal over here, and paying tax (and other niceties like that) is considered optional. I'd be tempted to go elsewhere just because they p1ssed me off, but I doubt you'll get such good value for money.


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## Motozulu (13 Nov 2012)

Yeah Lulu - that's spot on.

Bites nose off to spite face scenario. I will probably end up with a bike that was'nt my first choice - but I can't blame Halfords tbh, they are just sticking to the rules...still...that carbon....


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## Motozulu (13 Nov 2012)

S'cuse the ignorance Greg but what's the carbon-Clydesdale thing mean?


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## VamP (14 Nov 2012)

I think Greg feels £300 spent to save 300g is excessive when there's 000s of grams to be saved elsewhere for free.

Unless you have racing ambitions down the line, I think he's right.


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## Motozulu (15 Nov 2012)

Yeah - fair point and I doubt that at this stage in my life I have a budding racing career ahead of me.
Not just about the weight though? Rockshox sids over reba's? next level up avid brakes? slightly better groupset?. All in all though - bearing in mind I'm gonna be doing the dog and monkey for 90% of the time and if it means staying the right side of the rules...maybe the alu ht pro is all I'm ever gonna need - the £300? there are always those lumenator lights from Smudge in Lichfield (for the planned night rides next year) and the winter tyres and the pump for the Reba's and...well, you know more than me probably.


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## lulubel (15 Nov 2012)

When I was asking about this, someone one here said SIDs are "as tunable as Rebas now" or something along those lines. From what I can gather, SIDs are racing forks and Rebas have always been known as being the most tunable. So the SIDs are probably not better than Rebas for what you want, but not worse either.

Regarding groupset and brakes, I wouldn't personally pay more for what are bound to be very small performance gains. My old bike had Shimano Alivio and my Cube has SLX with an XT rear mech and the difference in how crisp and smooth they feel is like night and day - although the Alivio did the job, and I had no complaints - but I don't think I'd notice the difference if I replaced the SLX components with XT. What have you got on your Merida at the moment?


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## Motozulu (15 Nov 2012)

shimano acera and alivio as opposed to sram x9 gear on the boardman (x9 supposed to be XT equivalent?) tektro draco brakes (which I can't fault tbh) as opposed to avid elixir R. I'm sure you are right btw - I'll feel a massive difference from the boardman to the Merida - but probably very little between the boardman pro and carbon. Thanks for talking sense to me. I was in halfords the other day and just picked up the display alu one - I nearly lifted it over my head - such was the difference in effort that I need to lift the merida.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Nov 2012)

Avid brakes are fleabay fodder.  Better off without.  Swap asap for SLX or above or live to regret it (like I do)

VamP covered the clydesdale thing pretty much, I'd only add my weight has sometimes exceeded the level allowed by some manufacturers warranty. If I want to lose 300g before I ride I visit the men's room.

The Boardman Pro spec is superb for the money. ('cept for that BB30 - yuck) £1000 yet you are at least one step up the range on every component compared with the bike shop alternatives. X9 is excellent stuff, marketed as XT equivalent I'd say it is there or thereabouts.


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## Motozulu (15 Nov 2012)

Talk to me about the BB30 then Greg? seems to be on a lot of bikes (as do the Avids) is that BB really that bad and if so - why so?


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## lulubel (15 Nov 2012)

I've just googled it, and it looks like it's built into the frame rather than being an addition. Presumably, this limits wear, but makes it difficult/expensive/impossible to replace when it does wear.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Talk to me about the BB30 then Greg? seems to be on a lot of bikes (as do the Avids) is that BB really that bad and if so - why so?


BB30's along with with all manner of external bearing bottom brackets, like the GXP I have on my HT Pro, are the spawn of satan. Bearings made of cheese have no place on an mtb. Poor seals, let's in dirt, dirt kills bearings. Cos I need a lighter stiffer axle on my chainset? Cos otherwise I'll break my square taper axle? Cobblers. Complete and utter.

Ridiculous retro fit technology bolted onto a legacy standard of the bottom bracket shell. imo anyway.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Nov 2012)

anyway, what I came in here to say was, get a £1k bike on C2W and spend the £300 on some decent off-road lights, and or knee pads, and or elbow pads, and or mud tyres.


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## Motozulu (16 Nov 2012)

Yeah think I'm going to - got pads need more tyres and deffo getting into the night riding - quite enthused about that. Place near me does some great lights (lumenators) for about £115 for the lid and some for the bars too and that'll be next summer sorted.


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## Cubist (16 Nov 2012)

The Clydesdale reference is to draw the parallel between a thoroughbred and a draft horse. It often applies to MTBers and distinguishes between






and


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## VamP (16 Nov 2012)

Clydesdale's are such beautiful horses. I love their enormous hooves.

Is that OT? I think it might be...


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## lulubel (17 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


>


 
That is a gorgeous horse. Although I'm not too sure about the flags they've put in his mane.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> The Clydesdale reference is to draw the parallel between a thoroughbred and a draft horse. It often applies to MTBers and distinguishes between
> 
> 
> 
> ...


iirc the limit for xc racing was you had to weigh at least 220lbs in a pair of trunks. I no longer qualify (for now)


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