# Should we have a 'Personal Matters' forum?



## Crackle (19 Aug 2009)

It's been mentioned before but a few recent threads have seemed out of place in both P&L and Cafe.

Personal matters to do with bereavement, illness, serious personal questions, those kind of things.


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## Noodley (19 Aug 2009)

I feel the forum supports those who want to discuss 'personal matters' well enough in a sensitive manner. Usually, but not always. And any insensitively is mostly alerted to Mods and sensible decisions taken.

I think there is the possibility of a 'private' area only for forum members, not for guests. I remember when 'soapbox' was 'private' for a while and I felt I could post 'private thoughts and opinions' not seen by guests. It then went 'public' and I was pissed off as the stuff I posted was related to my job which, although I know quite a few people know what I do, could leave me open to guests knowing 'private' information about me. I have since stopped posting in P&L too much other than my usual mindless rants - the forum is a poorer place for this! 

I suppose it depends what kind of 'private' we are speaking about - I don't want to be bogged down by 'needy' people who cannae decide whether to have brown or white bread toast 'soldiers' with their boiled eggs 

Mind you, just post anything 'personal' in Cafe, seems to be the 'in' thing


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

No, we shouldn't even *have* threads about bereavement, personal illness, etc.


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## Noodley (20 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> No, we shouldn't even *have* threads about bereavement, personal illness, etc.



Not sure I agree, but I get where you are coming from bonj. It probably should take some time to get to a level of 'familiarity' on a forum before people feel they can raise 'private' issues. Maybe some see this as being a 'clique' but for me it is all part of the group process. I do not want to discourage those who feel in need of support or to just post something to get it off their chest, but I do think it could become a focus for 'the needy' if there was a 'personal' area.

We'd be overcome by people claiming to be serious cyclists and stuff like that...


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

Noodley said:


> Not sure I agree, but I get where you are coming from bonj. It probably should take some time to get to a level of 'familiarity' on a forum before people feel they can raise 'private' issues. Maybe some see this as being a 'clique' but for me it is all part of the group process. I do not want to discourage those who feel in need of support or to just post something to get it off their chest, but I do think it could become a focus for 'the needy' if there was a 'personal' area.
> 
> We'd be overcome by people claiming to be serious cyclists and stuff like that...



People shouldn't be treating other users on a cycling forum as close confidantes - the response is to either care more than you feel you should, or don't care as much as you feel you should.
Where is the interest in a thread 4 pages long full of one line posts all saying "ooh, my thoughts are with you" or some such?
Bereavement or a personal set back is a sad time in someone's life and they should be turning to those close to them, not the internet. It suggest an unhealthy addiction to the internet, or specifically this forum. (Whether that problem may exist anyway regardless of whether it is highlighted by a personal issues thread is another matter entirely.)


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## Noodley (20 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> People shouldn't be treating other users on a cycling forum as close confidantes



aye fair enough, but I am sure some times people who do have someone 'close' do need to 'let off steam' to people they do not know but who they have a 'bond' of sorts. It does not have to be an 'unhealthy' relationship with the internet or the forum but merely an 'escape' and a means of communication with others with no emotional connection...but who may empathise due to similar experience, or who wish them well. I do not post anything 'personal' through choice but can understand why some people do. 

But I still feel a 'personal' section will just attract the needy.


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## akaAndrew (20 Aug 2009)

In an ideal world bonj. But what "should" happen is neither here nor there. 

CycleChat isn't just a cycling forum. In fact, there are much much better cycling forums out there (sorry, imho of course!) CC's strength is the 'chat' bit and as much as it sort of pains me to say it, the community aspect. Yes, geeky, not real world, but a thriving internet forum community. Further, I feel the degree of anonimity offered by a forum does actually enable people to speak a little more freely than they might to friends and/or family.

In short, I like Crackle's idea. I'm mulling over whether I think it ought be members only or not (I favouring yes at the moment) but I think the idea's a good one.


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## akaAndrew (20 Aug 2009)

Oh, and just because the forum is there it neither means you have to post on it or even read it. You own experience and use of CycleChat needn't be impacted at all.


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

Noodley said:


> aye fair enough, but I am sure some times people who do have someone 'close' do need to 'let off steam' to people they do not know but who they have a 'bond' of sorts.



then PM them. Or better still, if you know them that well you should have their phone number so ring them up or text them.


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

akaAndrew said:


> In an ideal world bonj. But what "should" happen is neither here nor there.
> 
> CycleChat isn't just a cycling forum. In fact, there are much much better cycling forums out there (sorry, imho of course!) CC's strength is the 'chat' bit



yes, correct. that is a euphemism for it's strength *ISN'T* the cycle aspect, but it's quite true.


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

Although to be fair, if people do insist on posting "my guinea pig just died" type threads at all, then better for them to be boxed off in their own separate section.


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## akaAndrew (20 Aug 2009)

I have seen, on some threads, quite insensitive replies to what could well be an issue of genuine concern to someone. I'm sure most of such replies aren't intending to be insensitive, it's more just a misplaced flippancy. I think a specific forum _might_ help to avoid such replies.

I know there are trolls (or whatever one calls them) that delight in posting purely to incite response, and a 'personal matters' forum would well be a made-in-heaven opportunity to them, but I think that could be a small price to pay. 

Caveat: I am gullible. I don't have a memory for who posts what so I haven't built up a picture of CC posters (bar one or two). I tend to take posts at face value, factor in misunderstanding inherent in the medium and then maybe make a 'benefit of the doubt' allowance. I prefer to be this way rather than aggressively assume someones taking the piss. But, yes, it can make me seem a patsy


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2009)

Bonj, do me a favour. You've expressed your opinion, we know it, now go and pick another thread to troll please.


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## cisamcgu (20 Aug 2009)

Crackle said:


> Bonj, do me a favour. You've expressed your opinion, we know it, now go and pick another thread to troll please.



Why the vitriol ? Bonj is replying to the original posting asking for opinions about a separate "personal" forum.


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2009)

?

Vitriol = language expressing bitterness and hatred.

I'm merely expressing weariness at Bonj's trolling or do you think he isn't?


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## theclaud (20 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> It suggest an unhealthy addiction to the internet, or specifically this forum.



Says the man with nearly 11,000 posts...


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## Dan B (20 Aug 2009)

Bonj is almost convincing me it would be a good idea.

I would otherwise, I think, be largely opposed: I've seen it before on another cycling forum I used to read, and I think (a) "here, have a virtual tea and biscuit and a hug" was never _really_ a helpful response to "my cat has cancer"; ( the closed forum tended to accentuate any tendency towards cliquiness of the participants and I think that has a bad effect on the rest of the forum as well; (c) it encourages karmic energy vampires who hang around the personal forum and never post anywhere else at all.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.


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## theclaud (20 Aug 2009)

Uncle Mort said:


> I voted no. I don't think we need a separate forum for things like this. If people want to post this kind of thing they should be able to do so where they want. If people don't want to read them, they don't have to - even serious cyclists.



I quite agree. I'm not an enormous fan of these kind of threads, but have found one or two very moving - I logged on when bored at work with the rather ignoble intention of picking up an idiot-baiting session where it had left off and felt humbled by someone's frank story - which was told with humour and without self-pity. You can always ignore the guinea-pig ones, but Bonj is deliberately trivialising - I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset by the death, for example, of a much-loved dog, and to seek a bit of condolence.


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## Chuffy (20 Aug 2009)

Crackle said:


> I'm merely expressing weariness at Bonj's trolling or do you think he isn't?


I don't think he's trolling, I think he's serious. Bonj doesn't _approve_ of all this frivolous emotional stuff, it gets in the way of being a Serious Cyclist. 

I have to say that I don't agree with your idea Crackers. It's up to people to make a judgement about what they post and how much they give away. With Cafe being the only outlet for this (at the moment) hopefully people think before posting. Not always guaranteed, but there you go. A private matters section (which is far too ACF for my liking) would be tantamount to having an "I need a hug" section, which I would avoid like the plague. If people post insensitive replies in Cafe posts then they usually have a kicking it pointed out to them that they've been out of order. That's just part of the way that communities develop and learn to get along.


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2009)

coruskate said:


> I would otherwise, I think, be largely opposed: I've seen it before on another cycling forum I used to read, and I think (a) "here, have a virtual tea and biscuit and a hug" was never _really_ a helpful response to "my cat has cancer"; ( the closed forum tended to accentuate any tendency towards cliquiness of the participants and I think that has a bad effect on the rest of the forum as well; (c) it encourages karmic energy vampires who hang around the personal forum and never post anywhere else at all.




Hmmm, yes, very good points. I think most of you speak sense (even Bonj, he just packs it well). I think the Naye's have it so far.


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## Chuffy (20 Aug 2009)

coruskate said:


> I think (a) "here, have a virtual tea and biscuit and a hug" was never _really_ a helpful response to "my cat has cancer";


Heh, very true, but at the same time it can be comforting to see that someone has bothered to register that you're upset about something. In the Real World (tm) you wouldn't expect much different. That's what platitudes are for, they are a handy way of saying _something_ when there's nothing else that can be said but saying nothing at all isn't an option.


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## akaAndrew (20 Aug 2009)

coruskate said:


> the closed forum tended to accentuate any tendency towards cliquiness of the participants and I think that has a bad effect on the rest of the forum as well;



I've been thinking about just that effect. I'm still undecided as to whether it's another worthwhile trade-off. I just don't know. How does one measure such things? 



> it encourages karmic energy vampires who hang around the personal forum and never post anywhere else at all.



Much like P&L then? 



> Sorry if that sounds harsh.



It doesn't sound harsh at all to me, just a considered opinion. 

I can think of quite a number of reasons why not to have it but, for each, I can't see an impact on the wider board/membership (except the closed-board clique perception one, and even that's resolved by having it as an open forum). It's a forum that can simply be ignored if one wishes; either by self-discipline or the forum tools. I reckon it's worth trialling.


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## dellzeqq (20 Aug 2009)

there was one thread in the PM board on ACF which sustained a friend through the illness and eventual (and inevitable) death of her husband. Whether people want the same thing here is up to them, but it can be useful.

Personally I find the likely subject matter difficult to deal with, and would probably shy away.


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## numbnuts (20 Aug 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> there was one thread in the PM board on ACF which sustained a friend through the illness and eventual (and inevitable) death of her husband. Whether people want the same thing here is up to them, but it can be useful.
> 
> Personally I find the likely subject matter difficult to deal with, and would probably shy away.



I was at ACF and I found that thread very moving for it gave support to the lady and also gave an insight to loosing someone very close to you


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## bonj2 (20 Aug 2009)

theclaud said:


> I quite agree. I'm not an enormous fan of these kind of threads, but have found one or two very moving - I logged on when bored at work with the rather ignoble intention of picking up an idiot-baiting session where it had left off and felt humbled by someone's frank story - which was told with humour and without self-pity. You can always ignore the guinea-pig ones, but Bonj is deliberately trivialising - I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset by the death, for example, of a much-loved dog, and to seek a bit of condolence.



oh so it's ok for a guinea pig to die but it isn't ok for a dog. I see. 

I speak from experience when I talk about the grief of bereavement of the loss of not one but TWO guinea pigs, at once: one of them died needlessly, its death was caused by the death of the other.


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## Arch (20 Aug 2009)

Chuffy said:


> Heh, very true, but at the same time it can be comforting to see that someone has bothered to register that you're upset about something. In the Real World (tm) you wouldn't expect much different. That's what platitudes are for, they are a handy way of saying _something_ when there's nothing else that can be said but saying nothing at all isn't an option.



My thoughts too. I don't see anything wrong with people posting personal stuff, if they want to - I know I have friends on here I'd share things with that I'd struggle to share with face to face friends. And sometimes all you need is a virtual hug and a bit of sympathy.

Not sure about a separate section. I think maybe if people feel in enough need, then they'll post in Cafe, and those who feel they shouold will reply, and look after any antisocial types who poke fun.

And I've lost three guinea pigs in my time, each one sadly missed at the time.


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## Bollo (20 Aug 2009)

The forum means different things to different people. For some people its a big chunk of their on-line and real lives, so posting the personal stuff might be fine for them. Others will just come on to talk toss in P&L and one or two might just be interested in cycling.

I'll look at the forums and posts that interest me and, unless its one of the few forumites I've met in real-life, I'll not usually bother with the dead-hamster threads. It's not that I don't care, it just feels slightly voyeuristic to me.

The point is that I don't think personal posts need to be hidden away. If you really don't want the world to know something, then don't put it on the f****** internet!

FWIW, I've never, ever honest injun visited P&L. If I've got something bigoted, ill-informed and irrational to post I'll usually tack it on a reply to one of Origamist's threads in Commuting.


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## akaAndrew (21 Aug 2009)

Bollo said:


> Others will just come on to talk toss in P&L *and one or two might just be interested in cycling*.



There's no smiley but I still sense that's positively dripping with irony!


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## Bad Company (9 Sep 2009)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'm for it.


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## Gerry Attrick (9 Sep 2009)

I like the idea that anyone can post anything on the forum which concerns them. If the subject matter is inconvenient or unacceptable to others, then those others do not need to read it or respond. Period. That is not a reason for preventing members posting. As for a separate section, definitely not. The cafe is for all things not covered by the other fora. I personally would shy away from reading a forum containing nought but tales of woe. However, I may well respond (and have in the past) to occasional genuine (as it seemed to me) cries for help, assistance or comfort. Is that not what good communities are for?


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## Sittingduck (1 Oct 2009)

Another No vote here. If folks want to post such things, then the Cafe seems good a place as any.


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## jay clock (1 Oct 2009)

I tend to use the forum for discussing cycling. Rarely do I post about anything else. I do find it useful sometimes for things like PC problems though. But not personal stuff. That's just me. And of course this post breaks my own rules


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## Crackle (1 Oct 2009)

You're OK, you inserted the word cycling.


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## Jane Smart (1 Oct 2009)

bonj said:


> oh so it's ok for a guinea pig to die but it isn't ok for a dog. I see.
> 
> I speak from experience when I talk about the grief of bereavement of the loss of not one but TWO guinea pigs, at once: one of them died needlessly, its death was caused by the death of the other.



I was inconsolable after the death of my first guinea pig

Did you ever hear of a guy called peter gurney Bonj?


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## alecstilleyedye (2 Oct 2009)

yacf has such a forum, limited to 100+ posters. seems quite popular, but as yacf has a forum for virtually everything, it may not necessarily be needed here.


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## longers (2 Oct 2009)

Mr Attrick sums my thoughts up very well.


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