# 2020 Structured Training



## Ming the Merciless (1 Dec 2019)

Thought I d start a thread for 2020 structured plans.

I've just dusted down the turbo and will spend December reacquainting myself with hard turbo efforts. I've got a new recumbent, with a 700C rear wheel. So I'll be using the recumbent to develop power on it, as it uses the back of the leg muscles much more than upright. So you need to train on it, to get the most out of it when out on the road.

Got some hilly long distance rides in 2020 so keen to get my power and how long I can sustain it, as high as possible.


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## Sharky (1 Dec 2019)

To call my plans "structured" could be stretching it a little. I tend to do a short ride (60-90mins) to make heart beat faster, every 2 or 3 days.
Very worried about ice (black) nowadays, so if it gets to 3 days without venturing on the road, will do a 20 minute session on the turbo. I also play competitive table tennis and I include this as one of the training days.
No plans next year for long rides, just the club's evening 10 series and would love to beat my age standard. Maybe an open 25 or two and would really like to ride a 50 - haven't done one for a few years.

Had an enforced rest in september (kidney stone) for a few months, but have recovered and have made a start on this plan, although xmas might get in the way.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Dec 2019)

2 sessions away from finishing anothrr Specialised Plan with TrainerRoad. Dithering whether I’ll have a couple of weeks completely structure free and then start with a Base plan and start all over. Ordinarily you would revert to the Build plan but I fancy square 1.


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## Jerry Atrik (1 Dec 2019)

Mid base 1 and 2 is definitely working for me .


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Dec 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> 2 sessions away from finishing anothrr Specialised Plan with TrainerRoad. Dithering whether I’ll have a couple of weeks completely structure free and then start with a Base plan and start all over. Ordinarily you would revert to the Build plan but I fancy square 1.



I've been off the turbo the past few months. So I'd call what I'll be doing this month as preparation phase. As in preparing the body for the phases to come.


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## HLaB (1 Dec 2019)

Open TT's and the ToC TT are my targets for next year. I'm cautiously optimistic with the level of training I've been doing and with the op, I'm no longer seeing my stomach swell. Previously I'd be a relative superman, then an OAP for a bit then a relative superman again. I put it down to nutrition/hydration but the more I ate and drank the more often I'd be the OAP and it was the initial sign of a bigger problem. But now its sorted I seem to be more sustainable and I'm looking forwards to training over winter and next year


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2019)

As part of my long term plan for next year I bought a tacx smart trainer a few months ago. My plan is to drop my monthly 100k ride while retaining the monthly 100miler, and do a few shorter 50k or so rides as replacement for the 100ks, plus work on the trainer so I don't lose fitness for the 100milers and 200k audaxes.

Quite how I'm going to do this I've not quite figured out. I've not bought any subscription to anything yet.

So far I've been trying Tacx's "Bora Hansgrohe (sp?)" Program. This has three weekly sessions - intervals (three bunches of 5x high effort with recovery between), over/under (three blocks of effort over then under FTP) plus an endurance session that is dull. I've binned that.

I've also been trying to figure out how much I can commit to. I'm thinking of two weekday sessions, one first thing (<=1hr) one evening (~90 min) Plus a weekend session if I'm not out on the road.

I need to figure out what I'm trying to achieve in a bit more detail. I'm hoping that if I can up my FTP then maybe my long distance easy effort cruising speed might go up a bit. And I don't want the loss of my monthly 100k rides resulting in me finishing my 100 milers struggling and making 200k audaxes an ordeal.

Also I've confirmed that yes, my wife's hybrid will fit on the trainer. So she's pinched it and puts in loads of time on it. (I have to do the swap and recalibration, tho  )


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Dec 2019)

Well I finally got round to getting back on the turbo. I finished building the new recumbent three weeks ago, so I've been busy getting out on the road on that. The new recumbent has a 700C wheel, so at last I can do turbo efforts on the recumbent. I did a ramp test today just to see where I'm at. My FTP appears to be 75 watts down on where it was, on my road bike in early July. There's two things going on. I've had a fairly chilled late summer and Autumn with no really hard efforts. Secondly I spent most of my riding in the past year on the road bike. I was definitely leg limited during the ramp test, the heart and lungs had more to give, but the legs fatigued to the point of failure. So happy to start at the lower figure, and work on gettting my legs adapted to the recumbent. The recumbent is much more about the gluteous muscles and hamstrings than the road bike. So as my gluteous strengthen, the power should start to climb back.

Of course it may also be that I'm not used to hard turbo efforts, after a few months break, and that in a few weeks when I do the ramp test again I might see some nice gains.

Last season my FTP climbed 60 watts between my January structured training start and the summer season. If I can achieve similar on the recumbent, for the 2020 season, I'll be happy.


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## HLaB (16 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Well I finally got round to getting back on the turbo. I finished building the new recumbent three weeks ago, so I've been busty getting out on the road on that. The new recumbent has a 700C wheel, so at last I can do turbo efforts on the recumbent. I did a ramp test today just to see where I'm at. My FTP appears to be 75 watts down on where it was, on my road bike in early July. There's two things going on. I've had a fairly chilled late summer and Autumn with no really hard efforts. Secondly I spent most of my riding in the past year on the road bike. I was definitely leg limited during the ramp test, the heart and lungs had more to give, but the legs fatigued to the point of failure. So happy to start at the lower figure, and work on gettting my legs adapted to the recumbent. The recumbent is much more about the gluteous muscles and hamstrings than the road bike. So as my gluteous strengthen, the power should start to climb back.
> 
> Of course it may also be that I'm not used to hard turbo efforts, after a few months break, and that in a few weeks when I do the ramp test again I might see some nice gains..


I was reading on the TR forum a ramp test could be 30 w too low for some folk. One bloke recorded 285w on a ramp test and 10 mins later he did a 8mins test and did a 314w.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Dec 2019)

HLaB said:


> I was reading on the TR forum a ramp test could be 30 w too low for some folk. One bloke recorded 285w on a ramp test and 10 mins later he did a 8mins test and did a 314w.



I'll see where I'm at once I've done a few of the sessions I did last year, but using the new FTP value. If they feel too easy I'm not adverse to upping the FTP value till they feel about right. Really the ramp test and 20 min tests are to get you in the ball park. As long as the value is in the right ballpark I'll be happy. Next three weeks I'll just be doing the workouts, but without structure. Then I'll retest and get started on the structured training.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Dec 2019)

I use the turbo on the patio and this rain is driving me bonkers. Took the recumbent to a local hill, and did 10 repeats in the rain today. The hill length means these are VO2 Max intervals. No data, as I don't have power cranks for the road; so this was a perceived effort workout. Certainly got the heart, lungs, and legs working. I was very glad to reach the top of the hill each time, and have that ever so brief recovery time as you turn and descend back down to the start of the climb.


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## HLaB (20 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> I use the turbo on the patio and this rain is driving me bonkers. Took the recumbent to a local hill, and did 10 repeats in the rain today. The hill length means these are VO2 Max intervals. No data, as I don't have power cranks for the road; so this was a perceived effort workout. Certainly got the heart, lungs, and legs working. I was very glad to reach the top of the hill each time, and have that ever so brief recovery time as you turn and descend back down to the start of the climb.


A lot more energetic than me. I never fancied cleaning the bike again and just opted for a half hour recovery ride on the turbore to keep my legs fresh for the weekend.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Dec 2019)

HLaB said:


> A lot more energetic than me. I never fancied cleaning the bike again and just opted for a half hour recovery ride on the turbore to keep my legs fresh for the weekend.



Bike has mudguards so not a lot of cleaning to do.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Dec 2019)

I have a figure at the moment that may or may not be my FTP. I got that from the TACX built-in FTP test in which you do 20 min at your highest sustainable intensity and they use a percentage of that as your FTP. I say "may or may not be" because next time I do the test I'm pretty sure I'll better it simply because I have a target to aim at. I think there's plenty of latitude for simply getting better at the test (rather than improving the measured value).

So - question about ramp tests.

I've read that you can also get an FTP value from a ramp test. The following is what I've gleaned from reading around. Happy to be corrected. To do this I'd need to either sign up for trainerroad or zwift or someone and use their offering, but I'm not ready to sign up to anything yet as I'm still learning/discovering, or I'd need to roll my own ramp test. My own would, I think, be an erg-mode workout that - after warmup - has a minute at (say) 100W, then steps up each minute by an increment (not sure how much, maybe 20W). Then ride it until failure. Then look back at the max 1 minute power over the whole test. That's my MAP value. I can get another FTP estimate from that by taking 75%. That could be handy in setting a target for my next 20 min test.

Speaking more generally, I'm quite enjoying my turbo. I've used it fairly regularly since I bought it four months ago, except for a few weeks when life intervened rather heavily. I doubt I'm disciplined enough to call what I do "structured training" but it's a bit of fun, I doubt it does me any harm, and it fills in some periods of available time when I otherwise would be watching telly or scrolling through rubbish on the internet. These numbers like FTP are mainly to provide a bit of interest/motivation to keep the indoor sessions going, rather than anything serious or accurate. Oddly enough I do quite enjoy it, and it means I can push myself to a degree that I never can (or at least never do, as I always revert to trundle-mode) in the real world.


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Dec 2019)

@Dogtrousers TR offers a free trial period so you could do the ramp test and then drop it. I think I may have some codes somewhere. I’ll have a scratch around.


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Dec 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> @Dogtrousers TR offers a free trial period so you could do the ramp test and then drop it. I think I may have some codes somewhere. I’ll have a scratch around.



@Dogtrousers I have found them. I do have a couple. I would just need your 1st name, surname and email address and they will pass on a month. Obviously you can DM those.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Dec 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> @Dogtrousers I have found them. I do have a couple. I would just need your 1st name, surname and email address and they will pass on a month. Obviously you can DM those.


Cheers but I want to educate myself about what a lot of these things mean before I take the plunge into signing up for anything. I have a free TACX Premium membership that I'm keeping on ice for this very reason (That gives me videos of hills I think, I'm not sure). So maybe in a few more months when all these acronyms and strange terms start making a bit more sense ...


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Dec 2019)

The TrainerRoad website has a brilliant section that will answer all your queries in layman’s terms.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Dec 2019)

Who else is planning a Christmas Day turbo session?


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## Enigma2008 (24 Dec 2019)

See the comment from Andrew Coggan on the TT forum regardin FTP and the 'fitting' answer...

Here's Coggan's statement I've also provided a link to the full article if you're interested.

People make the mistake of focusing excessively on increasing their 20 min power, instead of focusing on what they really want to do, which is to...
*increase their muscular metabolic fitness, i.e., their FTP.*
Coggan TT forum​
Here's a synopsis of the answer from an article (link attatched)...,

*Three Ways to Improve Functional Threshold Power
JUNE 20, 2014 · BY NATE WILSON*
Functional Threshold Power (FTP) measures the effort one can sustain for one hour and is the single most crucial factor in performance. Determine FTP then use these three workouts to increase it.​
1. SUB-THRESHOLD/SWEET SPOT WORK
“Sweet Spot” = 83 to 97% of FTP. Steady state efforts, Sweet Spot is a balanced amount of intensity and volume. Ride without interruptions maintaining a steady effort.
Start with 3×8' at “sweet spot” with 4' easy. Build to 3×10' with 5' easy.

2. THRESHOLD CLIMBING WORK
To improve performance on long climbs do efforts at 100-110% of FTP on a sustained climb at quality power. Do them when fresh and piece out the intervals to stay under 60mins.
Start with 3×10' at 100-110% of FTP with 5' easy. Build to 3×15' at 100-105% of FTP with 8' easy.
The “gold standard” FTP workout is 2×20' at 100-105% of FTP with 10' easy .

3. FLAT LAND FTP WORK
FTP workouts should also be done on flats at 95+ rpm on the time trial bike.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/three-ways-to-improve-functional-threshold-power/


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Dec 2019)

Christmas Day workouts completed. Did my low volume VO2 Max intervals. Feels about right but might just raise the level 5% next time to see if I can still finish them. Last did these type of intervals in April. Much work to be done , but we are on our way.


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## derrick (25 Dec 2019)

February. Training camp in spain, A week in the mountains to start my training. Then it's all down hill.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> February. Training camp in spain, A week in the mountains to start my training. Then it's all down hill.



Do like riding in Spain in winter. Some of best drive behaviour around cyclists that you are likely to see.


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## derrick (25 Dec 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Do like riding in Spain in winter. Some of best drive behaviour around cyclists that you are likely to see.


This will be our third time odoing Calpe in February, will hold us in good stead for the Pyrenees later in the year. In the meantime it's on the spin bikes unless the weather gets better.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2019)

Another session today. Same workout as Christmas Day ; went well so will increase intensity again for next time. FTP now within 29 watts of where it was start of Jan this year.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2019)

Another good session. Have increased FTP again for next time. Now within 19 watts of where I was on my road bike start of Jan 2019. Next workout on New Years Day!


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Dec 2019)

Ramp test followed by a half hour endurance effort. Only 2.5% less power even after felling and processing 2 cherry trees earlier in the day. 

I’ve also decided on a different structure aimed more at long days in the saddle. Had tried some other stuff for the sake of variety but I dropped my average speed over very long rides. It’ll be interesting either way.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jan 2020)

Ramp test on recumbent and now 2 watts less than road bike same time last year.


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## HLaB (19 Jan 2020)

I've been doing my turbo sessions so far on my road bike but I really need to get round to re cabling my TT bike (I put 45deg extensionson it). This is supposed to be the peak in my post treatment neurotoxicity, so I'm just waiting to get a bit of feeling back in my fingertips before I do so. I really want to do it before my next FTP test on 6th Feb.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Jan 2020)

HLaB said:


> I've been doing my turbo sessions so far on my road bike but I really need to get round to re cabling my TT bike (I put 45deg extensionson it). This is supposed to be the peak in my post treatment neurotoxicity, so I'm just waiting to get a bit of feeling back in my fingertips before I do so. I really want to do it before my next FTP test on 6th Feb.



Yeah if you want to build power on the TT bike you need to do your turbo time on it. Train for power in the position you’ll be in.


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## Dogtrousers (20 Jan 2020)

I think it's going to take a long time for my FTP test figures to mean anything at all. I've increased it with each test since I started a few months ago just by aiming a bit higher on my 20 min test. The 20 min test seems to rely a lot on pacing skill and knowing what you can sustain. I expect the improvements with this will become marginal as time goes by. Presumably I'll have to aim too high and blow up before I know exactly where I should be aiming.

Ramp tests, which I've only just figured out, seem to be less reliant on skill (and significantly less horrible to do) but I don't think the figures obtained (75% of failure) are directly comparable with the 20 min effort test. But I intend to do them a bit more regularly to see what happens.

I also have trouble imagining that I could actually last an hour in the real world at the FTP reported from my 20 min test. It's possible, I suppose, but it would be extremely difficult/unpleasant.

I also seem to have dropped a couple of kilos since December. That wasn't intentional. They'll probably come back.

That damn Turbo. It's just so convenient. I started gathering all my winter kit into a pile for a short-ish real ride on Sunday. Then thought ... what the heck.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jan 2020)

I switched to doing the ramp test last year. I find just keep pedalling till you can’t works for me. If I find the subsequent workouts too hard or too easy I just adjust the FTP by 2-3% each time till it feels about right.

How close your FTP is to your max aerobic power obviously matters as well. It underestimates mine as my FTP is a much higher percentage. Though obviously the gap can shrink or increase depending what training you are doing.


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## mattobrien (21 Jan 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yeah if you want to build power on the TT bike you need to do your turbo time on it. Train for power in the position you’ll be in.


There are some very different schools of thought on that one. It is very possible to train on a road bike and spend a few sessions adapting to tt position.
Some say that you shouldn’t turbo on a tt bike in position unless you have a super high interia turbo.
I have a tt bike on the turbo, but am not currently doing sessions in position as it won’t help at this stage.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2020)

mattobrien said:


> There are some very different schools of thought on that one. It is very possible to train on a road bike and spend a few sessions adapting to tt position.
> Some say that you shouldn’t turbo on a tt bike in position unless you have a super high interia turbo.
> I have a tt bike on the turbo, but am not currently doing sessions in position as it won’t help at this stage.



It’s not so much about fit but more that your TT power will be lower if you trained in the road bike position.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Jan 2020)

I'm possibly abusing this thread as my "training" is anything but structured. It's just "have a bit of fun killing yourself on the turbo when you get a bit of time".

Anyway ... In my quest to understand all of this training malarkey I did a "sweet spot" session this week. Three 15 min blocks at 90% FTP, with 5 min easy between them. 

First two blocks were OK but four minutes from the end of the third I maxed out my heart rate, ground to a stop and had to pause. Possible factors - Maybe the 5 min gap should have been longer. Also I hadn't eaten for quite a few hours before training.

This makes me think ... My 20 min effort is _X_. My FTP is 95% _X_ and this is supposedly an effort I could sustain for an hour. I find it hard to believe that I could really do this, especially as I failed to do 45 minutes at 90% FTP, ie 85.5% _X_, with a couple of short rests thrown in.

Which makes me think that _actually_ doing an hour at FTP, which is supposedly the definition, would be impossible. I'd blow up.

Anyway, I'll have another bash at setting up a sweet spot session at less than 90% FTP, say 85%, and increase the rest time between intervals.

But this weekend I'm planning to do some real outside riding up and down proper hills in the real world. See if I haven't become too soft.


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## mattobrien (24 Jan 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s not so much about fit but more that your TT power will be lower if you trained in the road bike position.


I think that that we may have to disagree on that one.

My experience has found that through adaptation sessions in position, it is very possible to transfer power from training in road bike position to tt position.

While at times my coach will ask me to do specific sessions in position, it isn’t that often. It works for me and I’m able to replicate food power numbers on either bike and out in some reasonable times when racing.


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## mattobrien (24 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm possibly abusing this thread as my "training" is anything but structured. It's just "have a bit of fun killing yourself on the turbo when you get a bit of time".
> 
> Anyway ... In my quest to understand all of this training malarkey I did a "sweet spot" session this week. Three 15 min blocks at 90% FTP, with 5 min easy between them.
> 
> ...


There are loads of things that could affect this; when did you last do an ftp, have you been training a lot since then, do you think your level of training will have seen your ftp increase or decrease since you last tested.

it might be worthwhile trying a different sweet spot session. You could look at 8min intervals with 2 mins off, repeat 6 times and this is likely to give you a similar tss to the 3x15 min sessions. 

The idea of dropping intensity and then potentially building up to a higher intensity again isn’t a bad idea. 

The quantity of training you’re able to do is going to have an impact too. If you are doing one or two structured sessions a week it is going to be harder to progress than if you are doing five or six. With slightly fewer sessions you may find you are slowly de training yourself and it justget harder and harder unless you retest and change the ftp. If You don’t already, it might be worth monitoring tss, CTL, ATL and tsb, so that you can best plan and ensure you get what you need from your training.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Jan 2020)

@Dogtrousers Your FTP doesn’t have to be spot on. It’s just a value used to set the intensity of your workouts. It is after all an estimate. 

Basic foundations for getting fitter. Structured training doesn’t have to be complicated. Just get the first three right to start with,


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jan 2020)

Did 11 x 45 seconds at 110% FTP today. Legs felt tired and during third interval wondered if I could complete them. But dug in and kept hitting the power for the required duration. Feels good when you complete a hard session when you have doubts early on.

Low intensity workout tomorrow. Generally trying to follow the polarized approach this year with a better balance of low intensity. The high intensity intervals duration / number will gradually increase as I move forward into this season.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Jan 2020)

Good solid aerobic capacity intervals today. Couple of more workouts then I enter my rest and test week.


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## HLaB (6 Feb 2020)

Just did my first FTP test of the year and I am up 20w on my guessed mid chemo FTP (pre chemo number -50w). I definitely felt like there was more in the tank but 30w more :-/


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Feb 2020)

Excellent keep the progress up.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Feb 2020)

Currently in my rest and then test week. Probably test Tuesday.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2020)

Another lesson learned. And this may seem bleedin' obvious but I thought I'd share it.

Check your tyre pressure before using the turbo. I always calibrate the turbo, but I don't necessarily check the tyre pressure, which I always do before heading out on the roads. 

I won't bore you with how/why I came to this realisation.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Feb 2020)

Tested today.

FTP up 23 watts since beginning of Jan. That’ll do nicely but now I’m better adapted to recumbent expect subsequent gains to be smaller amounts. We shall see in approx 4-5 weeks time.


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## HLaB (10 Feb 2020)

My coach scheduled another FTP test tomorrow now I know my body post chemo better. But I never looked at TP and rode up a virtual Stelvio yesterday to get my weekend cycling fix, not the best prep, so I'll probably stick with what I've got, 4.5w/kg.


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## Jerry Atrik (10 Feb 2020)

This is strange
I have my tt bike on the turbo and am now holding power easier in tt position than sitting up.
My heart rate does go up 4 or5 beats and my saddle a spec sitero isn’t comfortable at all while sitting up, but seem to have gone full circle.


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## HLaB (11 Feb 2020)

Jerry Atrik said:


> This is strange
> I have my tt bike on the turbo and am now holding power easier in tt position than sitting up.
> My heart rate does go up 4 or5 beats and my saddle a spec sitero isn’t comfortable at all while sitting up, but seem to have gone full circle.


I hit higher power numbers on a road bike but I can hold/pace power better on a TT bike. So IMC the TT bike wins overall.


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## HLaB (11 Feb 2020)

HLaB said:


> My coach scheduled another FTP test tomorrow now I know my body post chemo better. But I never looked at TP and rode up a virtual Stelvio yesterday to get my weekend cycling fix, not the best prep, so I'll probably stick with what I've got, 4.5w/kg.


Decided to do that test anyway and eeked out another 4w but lol I mistimed the last minute (I thought it was over and maxed out the sprint which saw me roll off the riser block . It was just 3w less than my post op/ pre chemo number (which I am sure was the mistime and riser block fail  I am still 4.5w/kg but instead of rounding up to 0.5, I am rounding down


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## Dogtrousers (12 Feb 2020)

I got up early today to do a turbo session. Then immediately went back to bed.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2020)

First VO2 max workout at new intensities. hard but everything felt good. Always the case after a rest and test week when you are fresh. Sure the fatigue will build up in this next block of training.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2020)

https://www.outsideonline.com/2408756/cycling-sprints-workout-study


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## HLaB (16 Feb 2020)

A bit of focused training for today (Sunday), normally the weekend is for leisure. My coach swapped in a long low cadence turbo session to avoid Dennis (as usual it was a needless avoidance here, the rest of the country hasn't been so lucky). After 3.4w/kg for an hour and a half mylegs are feeling it


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## Dogtrousers (16 Feb 2020)

Out of interest why would a low cadence workout be recommended? What are the specific advantages of that?

I tend ride at or around 100rpm on the turbo cos it sort of feels right. Cadence hasn't really been something I've given any thought to.

I was Dennis avoiding on the turbo this weekend too.


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## HLaB (16 Feb 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Out of interest why would a low cadence workout be recommended? What are the specific advantages of that?
> 
> I tend ride at or around 100rpm on the turbo cos it sort of feels right. Cadence hasn't really been something I've given any thought to.
> 
> I was Dennis avoiding on the turbo this weekend too.


I guess they build strength and endurance but they need to be mixed with high cadence sessions to see an all round benefit. 100rpm seems a tad too high but some of my stronger intervals are 100rpm + and my FTP tests are in the 95-105rpm zone. Higher cadences seem more sustainable for me but I've the strength to pedal out of things outdoors when the conditions change (gradient, wind etc).


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## Dogtrousers (17 Feb 2020)

HLaB said:


> I guess they build strength and endurance but they need to be mixed with high cadence sessions to see an all round benefit. 100rpm seems a tad too high but some of my stronger intervals are 100rpm + and my FTP tests are in the 95-105rpm zone. Higher cadences seem more sustainable for me but I've the strength to pedal out of things outdoors when the conditions change (gradient, wind etc).


I'm never sure about cadence. As long as you are providing the required power and aren't doing extremes of fast or slow I'm yet to be convinced that it makes much difference. 

I fitted a cadence meter a couple of years ago, and discovered that I spend much of my time in the 80-90 range, unless it's very hilly in which case my uphill grinding mode of around 60 starts to dominate. Getting on the turbo, where my intensity is way higher than on the road, 90-100 feels natural with hard intervals at 110ish.

I may try doing some workouts in a higher gear at a lower cadence, just to see how it feels.

I must say I'm enjoying the turbo just as a kind of journey of discovery. It's nowhere near as boring as I thought it would be. And it has very little in common with riding a bike outside (apart from the obvious presence of a bike, of course).


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## HLaB (28 Feb 2020)

On longer zone 5 intervals with flurries into zone 6/7 I'm falling into the Spiral of Death with ERG mode but I can manage other intervals, FTP tests etc fine and get more power out.





By coincidence this came up in my news feed tonight. Going by that I am using ERG too much. I just have to figure out how to disable ERG to a decent resistance level and still use the virtual training App (RGT Cycling). I would do that in the Elite training app but I am not sure if it and RGT can operate simultaneously.

View: https://youtu.be/ImCmZm-iNco


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Feb 2020)

With today's ride I've reached 2020 km for the year which I thought was kind of neat. This is my outdoor mileage rather than turbo being mixed in.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Mar 2020)

I've switched to a polarised training regime this year. So 80% low intensity, 20% high intensity and nothing in between. The difficulty of using ERG mode is finding the right intensity to push you into the right territory. Low intensity I do outdoors as I couldn't face hours on the turbo.

I've been using 30 / 15 intervals. So 30 seconds high intensity and 15 seconds recovery. I'm currently up to three sets of 10 X 30/15 per session. I started at 90% of my maximal aerobic power (highest 1 min power during a ramp test) a few weeks back. Today I set the intensity at 105% of MAP. It meant I hit 94-98% of my max HR during each set with 15 seconds recovery not enough for HR to drop much due to lag. So it was close to 30 mins accumulated at 94-98% max HR. Interestingly my HR was still climbing slightly during last set so wonder if I might be able to eek out a few more beats to a new max HR in a few weeks.

How hard was today's session? Well I had to close my eyes during the intervals as even looking at a 30 second countdown would have been too much. Even looking with 10 seconds left I was desperate for it to end. Then the 15 second recoveries flew by.

Hard is what I wanted, hard is what I got.

Like @HLaB I wonder about not doing this in erg mode and just going as hard as I can to find the right intensity level during any one workout.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Mar 2020)

Might be of interest. I certainly pay attention to what the research is saying about aging, and what you can do to slow it down.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzphy5EN8lg


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Mar 2020)

Did an hours workout today mostly intervals slightly above my VO2 max. I exceeded my FTP number for that hour, so I've been given a new higher number. Just a FTP 1% increase but a nice bonus ahead of my main testing which I will do via ramp test in about 10 days time.


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## HLaB (18 Mar 2020)

I've lost all motivation for training now all my targets are getting cancelled and even my leisure activities look like they'll end.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Mar 2020)

I'm keeping going. I have an event end of June which is not cancelled.


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## HLaB (18 Mar 2020)

I might try setting up a virtual event, the two TT series I was entering are cancelled. The ToC in June is cancelled
And club TTs are off till at least June


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Mar 2020)

I’m now doing my solo outdoor rides just by myself. It’s been a major change from solo to solo. But I’m coping.


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## HLaB (18 Mar 2020)

After stewing all day I finally got a wee bit of motivation for a virtual TT


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Mar 2020)

With the new restrictions in place.

Watched the first episode of a new season of a TV series I like. We have Sky and though not cheap,does allow you to download tv programmes and films to watch onto the iPad via the Sky Go app. So did a long low intensity session outside on patio in garden basically watching TV whilst the iPad also controlled turbo in background. Worked really well and didn’t really notice the time go by. So found my solution for long low intensity sessions, films and box sets. Having a comfy recumbent for turboing helps in this regard.

Short high intensity sessions I’ll drop to just once a week to try and preserve some top end whilst recognising I’m not training for anything at the moment. I understand about once every 5-7 days is enough to preserve but not increase aerobic capacity. Preserve where I’ve got to sounds good when I’m not specifically training for anything anymore.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

Weighed myself today. Lightest I’ve been since 2002. My FTP is therefore 3.2 W/KG. Better than I thought for this time of year. But it’s now in a holding pattern during the current restrictions. Fitness is bound to drop and weight go up.


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## HLaB (29 Mar 2020)

I've not been out since Thu morning (it was only short dashes Tues/Wed/Thu beforehand), unstructured 3.5h of turbo and I'm in a flat you couldn't swing a cat in but my weight has went down by 2kg


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## HLaB (1 Apr 2020)

A bit more structured this week.
An Active Recovery Session on Monday;
A harder Pyramid Session on Tuesday; and
I took the Workout Out today for a Level 2 Session.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> After stewing all day I finally got a wee bit of motivation for a virtual TT



How did you get the GPX into RGT? I have installed the app but not tried it yet.


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## HLaB (1 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> How did you get the GPX into RGT? I have installed the app but not tried it yet.


Its their Magic Roads bit of the App. Unfortunately for me since they've admirably went free there has to be 5 riders or more signed up to a magic roads ride/race.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

Did my weekly high intensity session. Power and heart rate numbers indicate my fitness is holding steady. Which is good as not trying to get fitter now, just trying not to lose fitness during lockdown. Now I can look forward to the rest of the week at low intensity.


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## HLaB (6 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Did my weekly high intensity session. Power and heart rate numbers indicate my fitness is holding steady. Which is good as not trying to get fitter now, just trying not to lose fitness during lockdown. Now I can look forward to the rest of the week at low intensity.


I do my higher intensity session tomorrow night, a pyramid session stepped up ok last week but found it harder to step down last week after a rest period. It was a lower intensity session today and Wednesday stepping up again on Thursday.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Apr 2020)

Last Friday I retested my FTP. As expected it was a fair bit lower than previously. Lots of reasons, time off the bike, injury, illness, testing at the end of a full day and not having eaten well, so no surprise there but I was a bit surprised that it was a whole 10% down.

Anyway I'm following the TacX "groundwork" plan, which is really quite dull. During the week (this is my lockdown commute) there are "intensive" sessions (actually not very intensive) which involve 3 or 4 blocks of 8 min or so at 75% FTP or so (they vary session to session). They really don't grab my attention. At the weekend they prescribe endurance sessions of things like 90 min at a constant 65%. There's no way I'm doing something that boring so my weekend long rides are being done on the Real Life Video and are longer and harder and more varied than the prescribed sessions (and are fun, which is the whole point).

Anyway my new lower FTP made this morning's "intensive" session even less challenging. I never got out of zone 3 HR. I wonder if it's meant to be like that. I think I'll bump my FTP up a little in my profile to make it more interesting.

I find I like to have constant changes and challenges within a workout to combat boredom. My favourite workout so far is an over/under one that has three blocks each containing 3x1 min at 120% with 2 min at 75% in between, and a few min recovery at 50% between blocks.

I don't know whether I'm going to stick with this "groundwork" plan. Given that I don't have any particular target in mind other than not turning into a potato I may as well just choose workouts that I like doing.


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## rivers (7 Apr 2020)

Due to the current restrictions, for once, I have a structured training plan. I've enrolled on the 12 week Build me Up plan on Strava, coupled with zoom turbo session once/twice a week with my club, should hopefully see me through this lockdown. I'm hoping that by the time club runs resume in July, I can keep up with the mid-group 2 groups (currently back end of group 2). I also ordered a power meter today, so hopefully that can dial in the training a little more as well.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> I do my higher intensity session tomorrow night, a pyramid session stepped up ok last week but found it harder to step down last week after a rest period. It was a lower intensity session today and Wednesday stepping up again on Thursday.



Good luck. I might put mine up slightly next week and see how it feels. But not training for anything so it might also stay where it is. I’ll decide on the day.


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## HLaB (9 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Good luck. I might put mine up slightly next week and see how it feels. But not training for anything so it might also stay where it is. I’ll decide on the day.


I think the sessions went better this week. I made more of the recoveries and stuck to the earlier zones better (instead of going too hard) and therefore lasted longer.


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## SWSteve (10 Apr 2020)

I’ve just enrolled in the TT builder on Zwift to keep myself having some structure to training this and a along run/interval run around the cycling should help to have some level of duathlon/triathlon prep other than not being able to swim


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## HLaB (13 Apr 2020)

An easy rest week for me this week but after reading this I might reduce my intensity in future too:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/s...qNY7R9UA_wzo9xS_mAA6h_UkvEXyv1tsEPBjKeM5b843M


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

A 57 minute aerobic threshold session this morning before it warmed up too much.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> An easy rest week for me this week but after reading this I might reduce my intensity in future too:
> 
> https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/s...qNY7R9UA_wzo9xS_mAA6h_UkvEXyv1tsEPBjKeM5b843M



I hadn't read that but I've reduced my high intensity sessions down to once a week. I've also reduced the intensity of the intervals by 12%. They are now about 90% of my aerobic capacity. The rest I'm doing in upper zone 2 on the chart in the article you linked. My zone 2 volume is holding steady mostly as a result of some outdoors and some on the turbo, and something done every day. Normally it'd be increasing it right now. So far based on the data coming out of the workouts this seems to have stablised my fitness where it was. I'm not getting fitter or losing fitness but holding steady till it looks like the lockdown may ease , and there's something to train for (all my events cancelled or delayed till 2021) .

This Strava chart demonstrates how April compares to March. The big jumps in March are 200km audax rides before lockdown. April (orange line) is tracking pretty similar for hours to March but it is more steady day to day and a mix of turbo and outdoors (rather than primarily outdoors with big rides chucked in as before).


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## Dogtrousers (16 Apr 2020)

Ross Tucker (I know some people are allergic but I find him interesting) did a video recently about immune response and exercise. To briefly sum up - on the basis of various studies he cited:

* Exercising is better for your immune response than not exercising.
* High levels of exertion are _worse_ for your immune system than being sedentary
* Your immune system may remain suppressed for a period after extreme exercise
* What "high levels" and "extreme" are will vary person to person, but note he was thinking in terms of running a marathon.
* He was citing studies that showed a tendency for people to get more bugs after running a marathon, but noted that the act of doing the marathon itself could cause that by making infection more likely (eg being with crowds, travelling) rather than actual immuno suppression.
* In short: don't overdo it.

Video here. 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jos43qMak0


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Ross Tucker (I know some people are allergic but I find him interesting) did a video recently about immune response and exercise. To briefly sum up - on the basis of various studies he cited:
> 
> * Exercising is better for your immune response than not exercising.
> * High levels of exertion are _worse_ for your immune system than being sedentary
> ...




It'd look interesting if they did a look at infection rates outside of mass participation events. So does someone running 60 miles solo a week get more infections than someone running 30 miles solo a week etc?


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## Dogtrousers (16 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It'd look interesting if they did a look at infection rates outside of mass participation events. So does someone running 60 miles solo a week get more infections than someone running 30 miles solo a week etc?


Yes. At least he was honest about the confounding factors. Problem would be getting hold of enough data of good enough quality to be significant. I wouldn't necessarily expect a _regular_ 60 mpw runner to be more susceptible to a _regular_ 30 mpw runner. Just that if either upped their intensity to what is _for them_ extreme then they would be more susceptible. But hey - I know nothing so that's probably cack.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

Yay, I’ve unlocked premium RGT features for free as per their virus offer. Be interesting to see what it’s like for longer turbo sessions.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Tried RGT but it lost connection with smart trainer and session after 50 mins. It didn’t manage to save what I’d done. Not impressed though I was enjoying the real roads circuit up till then.

Managing to keep hours in line with March just about by shorter but daily riding in April.


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## HLaB (17 Apr 2020)

I don't know what it is about RGT but it done things like that for me at first but its now very stable


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> I don't know what it is about RGT but it done things like that for me at first but its now very stable



I have been running both the screen app and cycling app on iPad. Maybe that is issue. Will install cycling app on phone and see how that works out. Just checked and it appears to have not lost the session. It auto saved it 30 mins after it lost connectivity. So had to edit out 30 mins of virtual me not moving.

Did the Paterberg circuit this first time out. Will try the Stelvio next.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Apr 2020)

Ive been running it on Android with the screen om a Win 10 laptop and its been stable. But I've not used it much. Only one session as long as an hour.


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## HLaB (19 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Ive been running it on Android with the screen om a Win 10 laptop and its been stable. But I've not used it much. Only one session as long as an hour.


I use the same set up; I think my longest session was 2 and 1/2 hours up and down Ventoux and I've used it quite a few times for sub hour sessions and for a few other hour + sessions no problem.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2020)

Well I wasn't expecting this.

My FTP is up 3.5% since the start of lockdown. I'm only doing high intensity once a week during lockdown, and even though it's close to my VO2 Max, I was only trying to not lose fitness. I'm not having rest days now and doing low intensity 6 days a week, with more of that being on the turbo. So maybe I'm getting a better training stimulus from high quality low intensity riding on the turbo, no freewheeling!

FTP now 3.3W/KG, best it's been in recent years.


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## HLaB (20 Apr 2020)

When I last did a 20mins test back at the end of Feb I was just under 62kg and it was 4.5w/kg. Ive fallen to 57-58kg I doubt its risen to 4.8 w/kg. 95% of my last interval session (not a full out 20mins) says its fallen to 4.11w/kg.


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## Dogtrousers (20 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> I use the same set up; I think my longest session was 2 and 1/2 hours up and down Ventoux and I've used it quite a few times for sub hour sessions and for a few other hour + sessions no problem.


The Ventoux simulation is on my list of things to try ... but not yet!


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## rivers (24 Apr 2020)

Four weeks into my training plan, and I have to say things are going well. I went into work today for the first time since the lockdown (we're working in shifts to print mask components for the NHS), and I am full 1 mph faster than my previous fastest speed into work. I hit a 17mph average. Last August/September time I finally hit a 16mph average, and the effort absolutely wrecked me. Today's effort, while a hard effort, still had me arriving at work feeling pretty good.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

RGT Cycling didn’t crash yesterday! Did an hour doing the Canary Wharf circuit. It has a sprint section 23-27 seconds depending on mood. Totalled 33 laps and it was fun being lapped by others and also lapping others. The drafting simulation is pretty good as well as a faster rider found when I wheel sucked him round a lap and his power kept climbing as he tried to lose me!

I can see how easy it is to get immersed in these virtual reality apps and not notice the time passing.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Apr 2020)

Hit my high intensity interval workout today. As explained above, just once a week during lockdown. Changed intensity back to my VO2 max today. So only a bit lower than pre lock down levels, but lower volume. Can now enjoy low intensity rest of week.


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## HLaB (27 Apr 2020)

I'm down for an FTP test on Thursday but I've already said to some one I'll do an RGT TTT with him.


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## SWSteve (28 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> I'm down for an FTP test on Thursday but I've already said to some one I'll do an RGT TTT with him.


 Can you take the highest 20 minute effort and base FTP from this?


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## HLaB (28 Apr 2020)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Can you take the highest 20 minute effort and base FTP from this?


I doubt I'll be flat out enough to get a proper FTP from the 20 mins max of the TTT but it may compromise my proper 20mins test


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2020)

Oddly, now that I have absolutely nothing to train for I have, for the first time ever, settled down into a regular series of sessions that could almost be described as "structured". If not actually structured then at least non-chaotic.


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## HLaB (28 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> I doubt I'll be flat out enough to get a proper FTP from the 20 mins max of the TTT but it may compromise my proper 20mins test


I was right @ItsSteveLovell , I was 259w for 20mins but in threshold HR for only 2min26sec. My last test was 294w for 20mins and was in threshold HR for nearly 12min. Today was enough to feel it in my legs but not flat out, I hope it does affect Thursday but today was fun


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## HLaB (30 Apr 2020)

1w up on my 20mins best but I am 4kg down since my last test. I probably could have done better earlier in the week the cold damp weather has got to my feet (just when I thought I was getting rid of the chemo 😕) and I didn't have the motivation to push it either. I'm still 30w down on my 20min best which was actually set in an interval session rather than a test.


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## HLaB (4 May 2020)

I hate the rest days of structured training particularly just now


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## rivers (4 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> I hate the rest days of structured training particularly just now



Maybe do a recovery ride, gentle spin in an easy gear to pass the time?


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## Ming the Merciless (4 May 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oddly, now that I have absolutely nothing to train for I have, for the first time ever, settled down into a regular series of sessions that could almost be described as "structured". If not actually structured then at least non-chaotic.



Best time to try new fitness regimes out. If it doesn't work or not as well as what you used to do, then there's no event you've cocked up by not being as fit as you wanted.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> 1w up on my 20mins best but I am 4kg down since my last test. I probably could have done better earlier in the week the cold damp weather has got to my feet (just when I thought I was getting rid of the chemo 😕) and I didn't have the motivation to push it either. I'm still 30w down on my 20min best which was actually set in an interval session rather than a test.



1w I would put within the realms of well within error margin in terms of power accuracy.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> I hate the rest days of structured training particularly just now



Yeah but without the recovery days you stunt your fitness improvements. You get fitter during the recovery periods not during the hard exercise periods. Plus the hard workouts increase cortisol in the body, which is good during muscle repair and build but sustained high levels of the hormone lead to systemic inflamation and illness.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 May 2020)

Did my high intensity session today. Start of lockdown I dropped volume and intensity of these and have gradually been increasing both intesnity and number of intervals / sets back towards pre lockdown levels. I got up to 97% of my max heart rate today. It was a tough session and a reminder that hard means hard, easy means easy. I'll keep it where it is for now until I see the heart rate dropping 5-7% or so.


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## HLaB (4 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Did my high intensity session today. Start of lockdown I dropped volume and intensity of these and have gradually been increasing both intesnity and number of intervals / sets back towards pre lockdown levels. I got up to 97% of my max heart rate today. It was a tough session and a reminder that hard means hard, easy means easy. I'll keep it where it is for now until I see the heart rate dropping 5-7% or so.


Since mid March the highest my HR has been is 96% (on my FTP test). I am dismissing the 107% and 114% as spikes (old hrm). I've got some higher intensity intervals tomorrow which normally raise it higher but I don't know if I have the motivation 😕


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## Ming the Merciless (4 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> Since mid March the highest my HR has been is 96% (on my FTP test). I am dismissing the 107% and 114% as spikes (old hrm). I've got some higher intensity intervals tomorrow which normally raise it higher but I don't know if I have the motivation 😕



Well yeah, if 107% and 114% were valid then your max HR is too low.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2020)

Did my high intensity session for this week. It felt a lot easier than last week, still hard, but not as hard. Interestingly HR data says it was with 2 bpm of week before. Interesting how perceived effort can vary despite internal and external loads being pretty much the same. No change to workout from a week ago. I’ll add some extra intervals for next week.


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## Dogtrousers (12 May 2020)

I finally bit the bullet and retested my FTP at the weekend. As expected it was up quite a bit on the previous value which was done after a period of inactivity and illness, and was back up to where it had been before that. This morning I did what has become a regular hard-ish interval session. Unsurprisingly it was horrible.

I'm now combining two regular hard-ish interval sessions during the week with a Saturday morning "endurance" ride which is between 2 and 5 hours long and at a significantly higher intensity than my normal long (lazy, relaxing) rides of 6-10 hours on the road. I guess my aerobic fitness will probably be up when we get to the end of this, but I don't know where my endurance will be.


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## HLaB (12 May 2020)

I did my short HIIT session this morning, I need to find that motivation to push into the red on the last interval again. The literature on training is stopping me for the short term though.
I've sent an email to RGT to ask them to unlock the training element of their package I prefer seeing the full structure ahead of me but just running the session on my garmin in parallel with one of their available flat courses seemed ok.
Lol, I think you can tell when I had to stop to tighten my skewer and the subsequent unnecessary seated sprint at the start of a rest interval  https://www.strava.com/activities/3438477063/overview


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## Ming the Merciless (12 May 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I finally bit the bullet and retested my FTP at the weekend. As expected it was up quite a bit on the previous value which was done after a period of inactivity and illness, and was back up to where it had been before that. This morning I did what has become a regular hard-ish interval session. Unsurprisingly it was horrible.
> 
> I'm now combining two regular hard-ish interval sessions during the week with a Saturday morning "endurance" ride which is between 2 and 5 hours long and at a significantly higher intensity than my normal long (lazy, relaxing) rides of 6-10 hours on the road. I guess my aerobic fitness will probably be up when we get to the end of this, but I don't know where my endurance will be.



No doubt down if you’ve only been doing one longish ride a week. Congrats on FTP rise. I’ve not been testing mine but I do have a workout which exposes if it’s risen. I should do that workout next in about three weeks. My ftp was shown to have last increased a couple of weeks ago.


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## Dogtrousers (13 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> No doubt down if you’ve only been doing one longish ride a week.


I don't know, because I've never done more than one long ride a week. Often it's a two week gap (100k and 100 miler in a month). Now my long rides are half the duration but double the intensity. So it'll be interesting to see how I feel if I set off on the road for 100k.

Unfortunately I've done damn all about fixing my bike during lockdown and it's still not roadworthy so it'll be a while before I find out unless I fancy a long ride on the Brompton.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 May 2020)

Did someone say unlimited exercise?


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## ianrobo (14 May 2020)

interesting to read others experience ... 

Since lockdown (and after I think I had cover) I have done 54 days running and pushed up[ my FTP from 251 to 277 ...

This I think is due to doing a structure in that I decided to do a lot of virtual climbing so most of rides in 70% of FTP range and that seems to be working perfectly. Only rode outside for 5 days and never felt fitter and better. So whilst I can not wait to restart Audaxes the realty is I have never been so focussed and determined and I can feel it totally.


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## ianrobo (14 May 2020)

however I would say in these times then the best training is the type that you actually enjoy, if you want to do 5 high intensity in a work, go for it ! 

if you just want to zone 2 stuff all the time just do it and if you don't fancy it then great and relax.


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## HLaB (14 May 2020)

ianrobo said:


> interesting to read others experience ...
> 
> Since lockdown (and after I think I had cover) I have done 54 days running and pushed up[ my FTP from 251 to 277 ...
> 
> This I think is due to doing a structure in that I decided to do a lot of virtual climbing so most of rides in 70% of FTP range and that seems to be working perfectly. Only rode outside for 5 days and never felt fitter and better. So whilst I can not wait to restart Audaxes the realty is I have never been so focussed and determined and I can feel it totally.


I did a lot of virtual climbs also just over 70%. I've started to take things outdoors but not pushing too the extreme, Whilst I've avoided taking the TT bike out I'm quite confident for the TT season if it ever resumes this year or the next. I suspect that TT will resume as they are relatively solo but there'll be big changes :-/


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## ianrobo (14 May 2020)

yep I can see some of them restarting if in July/August cases etc calmed down. A lot of people may be very fit for short rides given how indoor training works !!


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## mattobrien (14 May 2020)

ianrobo said:


> yep I can see some of them restarting if in July/August cases etc calmed down. A lot of people may be very fit for short rides given how indoor training works !!


I wish I had your confidence in the restart of the season. I’m just hoping 2021 will go ahead as planned.


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## ianrobo (15 May 2020)

mattobrien said:


> I wish I had your confidence in the restart of the season. I’m just hoping 2021 will go ahead as planned.



yep I know what you mean, hopefully things have got better and some things can happen by then, on a good note, pushed my FTP up to 284W doing virtual Huez ! now to lose 10kg !


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## SWSteve (17 May 2020)

7 weeks of training. Have seen FTP (on Zwift with a kinetic smart trainer) move from 185-225( around week 4) - 249 (this morning on the Alpe du Zwift stage of Tour for All).
Surprised about such a big proportional change, although ~3 sessions a week and 2-3 steady/tempo runs a week since lockdown started are obviously making a difference.

Haven’t gone out on the road since lockdown but actually looking forward to hitting climbs in the future. A couple of good 4-5% average climbs where getting the power down for a long time will be beneficial.

Maybe now it’s time to knock off a couple of kilo as well


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## ianrobo (17 May 2020)

it is no surprise to see people's FTP go up as trainers are perfect for it. I went out on the road yesterday to a 150M climb into he lent hills and only 10 secs being my PB (only because had to stop at temp traffic lights). for comparison last PB was two years ago and same PM and HRM and average power up by 20W and HR down by 8bpm ... so if I had pushed it ??


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## Ming the Merciless (17 May 2020)

ianrobo said:


> yep I can see some of them restarting if in July/August cases etc calmed down. A lot of people may be very fit for short rides given how indoor training works !!



This week, after exercise duration restrictions removed, I’ve done a 125km and 120km rides two days apart. Did them at low intensity and my average speed was up 4km/h since Jan. I’ve been following polarized training. So lockdown hadn’t necessarily dented long distance endurance and speed. I’m now planning a 200km for next Friday. It’ll be two 100km loops returning home between. Totally self sufficient.


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## HLaB (18 May 2020)

ianrobo said:


> it is no surprise to see people's FTP go up as trainers are perfect for it. I went out on the road yesterday to a 150M climb into he lent hills and only 10 secs being my PB (only because had to stop at temp traffic lights). for comparison last PB was two years ago and same PM and HRM and average power up by 20W and HR down by 8bpm ... so if I had pushed it ??


I've only took my FTP up by 2w which is easily a margin of error, it might be higher but I haven't pushed to the extreme. Outside though I am going reasonably faster for less effort which might suggest it is higher; a big change however, is now the chemo is getting out of my body I am feeling the pedal better and pedalling more smoothly (my chemo wrecked my periphery nerves), so maybe its accurate . For a 69% paced effort for a 33mile course on Saturday I found out on analysis I was only 3s slower than my with chaingang pb up a local hill (bump). So I went back on Sunday and upped it slightly to 77% and beat it by 3secs. Our climbs aren't significant though but I do look forward to when I feel confident to give it 100%


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## Dogtrousers (18 May 2020)

My FTP rise was a bit fraudulent as the previous measurement was taken not long after I'd been ill. And the new improved one is pretty close to what it was at the latter end of last year. Add on the fact that I'm pretty unskilled at pacing the 20 min efforts, which will probably add to the margin of error.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 May 2020)

VO2 max work today. Recovery walk tomorrow then I have three back to back longish days culminating in my first 200km since lockdown started. I’m not testing ftp at moment and probably won’t till there’s something I’m definitely aiming at. I’ve decided that if my VO2 workout max HR drops down to 90% of max HR I’ll retest. Otherwise I’ll just stick with current FTP value.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 May 2020)

Day early for VO2 max workout today so can do easy ride with wife tomorrow. Session went well.


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## HLaB (30 May 2020)

It was supposed to be an easy week for me (which it was) but I replaced the hour long recoveries and rest days with slightly longer but even lower intensity OS tile bagging rides to get out of the flat and stay sane.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jun 2020)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> 7 weeks of training. Have seen FTP (on Zwift with a kinetic smart trainer) move from 185-225( around week 4) - 249 (this morning on the Alpe du Zwift stage of Tour for All).
> Surprised about such a big proportional change, although ~3 sessions a week and 2-3 steady/tempo runs a week since lockdown started are obviously making a difference.
> 
> Haven’t gone out on the road since lockdown but actually looking forward to hitting climbs in the future. A couple of good 4-5% average climbs where getting the power down for a long time will be beneficial.
> ...



If you are new to it you can see rapid gains in FTP in the early days. But the longer you've been training the harder it gets to improve. But what you can improve is how long you can sustain the higher intensities. Don't forget the odd recovery week so you don't run yourself into the ground with your training.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jun 2020)

Just started my first recovery week since lockdown started. Normally do them about once every 4 weeks, so only 6 weeks late  Dropping intensity and duration down this week. If I'm in the mood I might even do a ramp test end of the week, to get a proper assessment of where my fitness currently is. No events to aim at right now, but I want to keep my fitness as high as my sanity can manage.


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## SWSteve (9 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> If you are new to it you can see rapid gains in FTP in the early days. But the longer you've been training the harder it gets to improve. But what you can improve is how long you can sustain the higher intensities. Don't forget the odd recovery week so you don't run yourself into the ground with your training.


Thanks, to be honest I took last week pretty easy, relaxing on food and intensity as felt burnt ou5. Feeling much better now, but starting to search for a goal as all events I was registered for have been bumped to 2021


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jun 2020)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Thanks, to be honest I took last week pretty easy, relaxing on food and intensity as felt burnt ou5. Feeling much better now, but starting to search for a goal as all events I was registered for have been bumped to 2021



Yeah burn out is far too easy when you first discover structured training. You got to pace it for long term if you want to keep seeing gains.


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## HLaB (9 Jun 2020)

Ive started doing outdoor sessions but I'm still holding back, too many what ifs in my head, I need to mentally kick up a gear. At the moment I am going to sustainably rather than pushing and thus improving. My first 'what ifs' were to do with handling with the new preying mantis position but I think I'm starting to get over that.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Jun 2020)

Did a three hour ride today. Towards the end a roadie was out of saddle trying to catch me up a hill. I was on my recumbent. I upped my pace then accelerated away from him through a village. He gave chase. But I managed to outpace him and subsequently leave him behind on a flat section. Mind I did average 27 mph for almost 4 minutes and hit 97% of max HR by the end of that! Strava reckons I was at my VO2 max power, over the 4 mins, which would be about right. Good to see figures outside that I usually only see when doing high intensity intervals on turbo.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

Ramp test today. 

First one since lockdown started, so not for about 14 weeks as last did one beginning of March. My FTP is up 2.6% since April. In April one of my harder workouts indicated a higher FTP due to the sustained wattage I put out in a 20 min period. So overall about up 5% since beginning of March.

About to restart structure to training as there's an Everesting day planned amongst a group of us end of August. We will all be on our own hills, but all doing it on the same day. So I've now got something to train for this year.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> About to restart structure to training as there's an Everesting day planned amongst a group of us end of August. We will all be on our own hills, but all doing it on the same day. So I've now got something to train for this year.


OT a bit but will you be Everesting on your recumbent? I know practically nothing about recumbents but I thought they were a bit less than optimal for going uphill. I'm probably wrong, I usually am.

I have a half formed plan to attempt to accumulate half an Everest's worth of climbing in a single day. A whole one would be way beyond my powers. And doing it on one hill doesn't appeal.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> OT a bit but will you be everesting on your recumbent? I know practically nothing about recumbents but I thought they were a bit less than optimal for going uphill. I'm probably wrong, I usually am.
> 
> I have a half formed plan to attempt to accumulate half an Everest's worth of climbing in a single day. A whole one would be way beyond my powers. And doing it on one hill doesn't appeal.



Yes I'll be doing it on my recumbent.

You are making the same mistakre many make when it comes to recumbents. Would you say that a butchers bike would be optimal for Everesting? You see a butchers bike is the same as a road bike if you consider them in the class of upright bikes. It's the same with recumbents, there is a lot of variance in their design, weight, stiffness etc.

My recumbent is a racing one, and though it's not pushing the UCI weight limits, it is the same weight as my road bike. For climbing it's about how much power you can get to the back wheel, and weight. For recumbent that's translates to, how light is it, and how stiff is the frame for the power transfer, and are you adapted so you can generate the power? Once adapted to a recumbent you put out just as much power as a road bike. Climbing out of the saddle will not help you be faster on a road bike. You can do that for a few hills but it's not sustainable over the height of Everest. So it comes down to what power you can sustain uphill, when seated, over 88848m of climbing. Given those parameters a racing road bike and a racing recumbent are pretty evenly matched.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

Here is my FTP since beginning of the year. I was only trying to maintain fitness during lockdown so quite pleased it has continued to climb, at a slower rate. I'm about to recommence more structure training this week to see if I can push my FTP and sustainable power up further over the rest of the summer. Once we hit autumn my aim will be to keep my fitness in a holding pattern rather than what usually happens, which is to let it drop, only to have to claw it back again the following year.


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## ColinJ (15 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> OT a bit but will you be Everesting on your recumbent?





YukonBoy said:


> Yes I'll be doing it on my recumbent.


I haven't read all of the thread so you may have covered this, but if you want it to be an officially-recognised ride you might have problems!


Everesting Rules said:


> *Accepted Bikes*
> – Acceptable bikes: Road, MTB, CX, Track, BMX, ElliptiGO. Not acceptable: Electric, Recumbent and Tandem (Exception exist for special circumstances)


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I haven't read all of the thread so you may have covered this, but if you want it to be an officially-recognised ride you might have problems!



Yeah that is bizarre rule and I’m aware of it. I have tweeted them asking their reasoning but no response yet. But doesn’t really matter it’s a personal challenge between a group of friends. On their website list is no biggy. I’m not so much into the public ego type stuff.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yeah that is bizarre rule and I’m aware of it. I have tweeted them asking their reasoning but no response yet. But doesn’t really matter it’s a personal challenge between a group of friends. On their website list is no biggy. I’m not so much into the public ego type stuff.


Start your own, even more official, challenge. Call it Chomolungma-ing (or Sargamatha-ing) and set your own rules.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Start your own, even more official, challenge. Call it Chomolungma-ing (or Sargamatha-ing) and set your own rules.



You mean Qonolangma for the Tibetan side


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## ColinJ (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yeah that is bizarre rule and I’m aware of it. I have tweeted them asking their reasoning but no response yet.


I can see why they don't want ebikers doing it but I can't see the reasoning behind the objection to recumbents since I don't think they offer an advantage for this challenge. I don't really see why tandems should not be allowed either.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jun 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I can see why they don't want ebikers doing it but I can't see the reasoning behind the objection to recumbents since I don't think they offer an advantage for this challenge. I don't really see why tandems should not be allowed either.



If anything recumbent are at a disadvantage as on average they are heavier than road bikes.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> If anything recumbent are at a disadvantage as on average they are heavier than road bikes.


You can possibly descend quicker, due to being more aerodynamic. And half the distance will be descending.


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## ColinJ (15 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> You can possibly descend quicker, due to being more aerodynamic. And half the distance will be descending.


Yes, but speed isn't part of the challenge. Doing the climbing is what it is about, and recumbents would be at a disadvantage, therefore they should be allowed!


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> You can possibly descend quicker, due to being more aerodynamic. And half the distance will be descending.



It will not be half the time descending, not by a long way. The majority of time will be climbing and that’s what will pretty much determine the overall average and time. But all other things being equal a longer ascent at same grade will yield a shorter elapsed time.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Jun 2020)

Restarted working on improving fitness. That’s means two high intensity sessions a week. Did second session this week and it went well. Let’s hope there’s a steady improvement in my power outputs etc through the summer. Ready for my Everesting attempt 😀


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## Dogtrousers (19 Jun 2020)

Yeah, I was just casting around for possible reasons why they would exclude recumbents.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Yeah, I was just casting around for possible reasons why they would exclude recumbents.



Because they made a brainless decision based on UCI rules or something? Still no response from them justifying their stance.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Jun 2020)

Bizarrely they allow recumbents in Everest Roam and Everest 10K!


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jun 2020)

Too hot for me. So I’m going to skip any high intensity for now. It’s the overall consistency of training that counts rather than any individual workout.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jul 2020)

My recumbent FTP is now within 5 watts of my peak road bike FTP last year. Pleased with that.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Jul 2020)

Working a bit more on length strength at moment with slow cadence hill repeats. Feel like legs now holding the cardio back.


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## HLaB (22 Aug 2020)

I seem to be back on it. I kept myself ticking over with a free trial of trainer road until it ran out which coincided with interviews and a new job starting. After a couple of weeks I got the urge to do some intervals and quickly made up a session to follow.








After that I decided it wasn't structured enough. So I renewed TR and did a ramp test.






Woke up with a sensitive left knee though but it wasn't too bad so I went out for a gentle recovery





It didn't feel any worse or better though after that so I thought I was going to have to stop again. Then I realised my new cleats I fitted in a haste 🤦‍♂️ last week had slipped. The next session was a recovery so I fixed the cleat and did it.






The knee felt really good after that so I went to do the last club TT and despite stupidly knocking the knee of the bars in the warm up I set a 1 sec PB.



The knee was a bit sore after that but it seemed to ease of over night so I did the next session.






Couldn't face a solo ride today so I did the next session TR had programmed.






I might skip tomorrow's 2 hour sweet spot session though and do that solo ride 🤔


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## HLaB (26 Sep 2020)

I think I'm seeing the benefits of Structured Training today. Somehow managed a circa 58s (awaiting official results) on the Broughton TT despite the wind impact being twice as much, again having little warm up (it was freezing so I hid in the car ), having a shallow wheel and putting less effort in so I wasn’t caught out. Last time I rode it in 2016 was when the same bike was 6 months old but it had no disk or powermeter and had only been doing structured training for a year





2016



Today


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Sep 2020)

Good effort.

I’ll be getting back into structured in Nov. Got some more long rides planned in Oct before the weather completely bows out for a while.


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## rivers (4 Oct 2020)

I've decided to work with a coach for a bit more structure to my training, instead of just a couple of turbo sessions/week. It is the same coach who was hosting 2x turbo sessions/week. I have some hefty goals next year, and I'm excited to see how I progress.


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## mattobrien (5 Oct 2020)

rivers said:


> I've decided to work with a coach for a bit more structure to my training, instead of just a couple of turbo sessions/week. It is the same coach who was hosting 2x turbo sessions/week. I have some hefty goals next year, and I'm excited to see how I progress.


Good luck, being coached was one of the better bicycle related things I have done. For me it’s about the accountability of it, it gets set, I do it. No ifs, no buts. Just, shut up and train.


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## SWSteve (7 Oct 2020)

Do any of you run alongside cycling, and how do you manage your weeks?


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Dec 2020)

Now done a couple of turbo sessions. Easing myself back in to it. Currently set efforts 10% below what I was doing in July. Seems about right and happy to be at this level in Dec. My power was much lower 12 months ago.


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