# Fit for Purpose - Sales of goods act



## gaz (3 Apr 2011)

I don't really know where to post this, but as a lot of people read here and it's related to commuting, at least for me.

Is it possible to claim that a bicycle is not fit for purpose under the sales of goods act?

My problem is the brakes, a pretty big problem, they need constant adjustment to function at a level which would be deemed safe, without adjustment then i would not be able to stop my bike in an emergency.
I've taken it to several chains of the shop i bought it form. Several changes have been made but only one improved on the issue but not enough to make me feel safe using it.

For those interested, this is about the Genesis day01, the brakes are tektro lyra but the rotors are shimano.


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## Tynan (3 Apr 2011)

yes

but I suspect you'll need to take it quite a long way before they presumably agree to settle out of court


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## MrHappyCyclist (3 Apr 2011)

I should imagine that you could gain redress under the sale of goods acts. Goods must be "fit for purpose" and "of merchantable quality". I would imagine both of these might apply here. I seem to recall someone (you?) mentioning that the cause is a mismatch between the pads and the rotor so that the pads imterfere with the scalloped edge of the rotor. Not sure, but if that is the case, then they are clearly not of merchantable quality.


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## the snail (3 Apr 2011)

I think trading standards dept of your local council might be a good place for advice?


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## MacB (3 Apr 2011)

I would have thought you could get a refund if they can't sort it.

I know it's not always the answer but have you looked at the info around about setup of mechanical disc brakes and the possible pitfalls? I only have experience of the Avid BB7 but 3 of the setup factors should be universal:-

excluding any losses from the cable run due to cable outer compression - basically when you touch the brake lever the caliper should respond immediately, no slack to pick up, and it should carry on through the lever actuation - if yours isn't doing this then it's not setup right or hasn't used a good enough cable outer.

position of rotor within caliper - is it at the optimum point for brake performance? - for the BB7s in the center isn't optimum and position alters the feel of the braking

trueness of rotors - if they aren't true enough then the pads have to be backed off too far to avoid rubbing

I had read about caliper/rotor compatibility issues when I was looking into disc brakes but it all seems to relate to a few years ago, couldn't find problems around this on more recent kit.

The other possibility is if rotor or pad has become contaminated, in which case the shop should be able to swap them out. Re the proper prep I used this page for the BB7, some of the general info should apply to any mechanical disc brake, expecially around the cabling:-

http://www.twowheelblogs.com/avid-bb7-disc-brake-set-and-tuning

My LBS mechanic thought it was overkill but admitted to being impressed with the end result and thought the method was pretty simple.


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## 400bhp (3 Apr 2011)

It is possible to _claim_ a bicycle is not fit for purpose.

I've copied the relevant part of the Sales of Goods Act below:

_)For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B)For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b)appearance and finish,

(c)freedom from minor defects,

(d)safety, and

(e)durability.

(2C)The term implied by subsection (2) above does not extend to any matter making the quality of goods unsatisfactory—

(a)which is specifically drawn to the buyer’s attention before the contract is made,

(b)where the buyer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal, or

(c)in the case of a contract for sale by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample.]

_So, safety is in there.

Insofar as getting your claim held up, well that's where things become tricky.

I'm not a lawyer but from looking at this a while ago and from what I read, IIRC it is up to you to prove it isn't fit for purpose. Generally this would mean getting an "expert" to state the item is unsafe. Plus you will have had to try and give the supplier (not the manufacturer by the way, as your contract is with the supplier) the option to redress the issue.

Secondly, does the particular part (the brake caliper and/or cables/levers) make the sum of the parts unsafe?

Have you tried to speak to the supplier about the issue yet?


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## 400bhp (3 Apr 2011)

the snail said:


> I think trading standards dept of your local council might be a good place for advice?



From quite a bit of experience with Trading Standards, I have generally found them to be next to useless.

For a start they are very difficult to get hold of.


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## gaz (3 Apr 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> I seem to recall someone (you?) mentioning that the cause is a mismatch between the pads and the rotor so that the pads imterfere with the scalloped edge of the rotor. Not sure, but if that is the case, then they are clearly not of merchantable quality.


That was me, i noticed an improvement where some spacers where put in and the pads where getting better contact with the rotor. But it's still got issues.



MacB said:


> I would have thought you could get a refund if they can't sort it.
> .....


I followed what you posted and some of the info you linked to when you where setting up yours. Unfortunately none of it is applicable to my case, i have tested the cable outers, I'm constantly adjusting the pads (that is main issue) and the rotor is in perfect shape.
I've used mechanical disc brakes before and hardly had to adjust them!



400bhp said:


> ....
> I'm not a lawyer but from looking at this a while ago and from what I read, IIRC it is up to you to prove it isn't fit for purpose. Generally this would mean getting an "expert" to state the item is unsafe. Plus you will have had to try and give the supplier (not the manufacturer by the way, as your contract is with the supplier) the option to redress the issue.
> 
> Secondly, does the particular part (the brake caliper and/or cables/levers) make the sum of the parts unsafe?
> ...




I've looked into it and it seems that if the issue is noticed before 6 months is up then it's up to the supplier to deal with it. After 6 months and it's up to me to prove it.
I've contacted the supplier and the manufacturer about this in the past and they both fobbed me off.


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## MacB (4 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> I followed what you posted and some of the info you linked to when you where setting up yours. Unfortunately none of it is applicable to my case, i have tested the cable outers, I'm constantly adjusting the pads (that is main issue) and the rotor is in perfect shape.
> I've used mechanical disc brakes before and hardly had to adjust them!



Hmm, well unless it's contamination or a faulty part then one can only assume that the Tektro Lyra aren't very good. When I was mooching and making my, ever so lengthy and agonising decisions, I came to the conclusion that it was BB7 or nothing. If you like the bike is it worth seeing if the shop will swap out the Lyra for BB7 for a very small consideration? You could ask them to fit a new set of Lyras but you may get more peace of mind with the brand swap. I had some serious reservations when I set mine up but it turned out to be the rotors needed truing. I then went through the bedding in process which didn't seem to take long and wasn't even remotely as scary as some claims I've read, it all seemed rather straight forward and mundane.

It would be a shame to ditch a bike that's you're otherwise happy with if a simple caliper swap would sort it.


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## DrSquirrel (4 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> I don't really know where to post this, but as a lot of people read here and it's related to commuting, at least for me.
> 
> Is it possible to claim that a bicycle is not fit for purpose under the sales of goods act?
> 
> ...




If its under 6 months, let the shop prove other wise.

If not its much harder, although if there are "reports" online about this being a common fault I would go for that (and look at an independant report from a bike mech).


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## smiorgan (4 Apr 2011)

Hi there. I tend to lurk so I haven't posted for years, but I had an idea...

Your bike presumably has Virsa levers to go with your Lyra brakes. 

The CRC website says Lyra brakes are for linear pull levers

http://www.chainreac...9&ModelID=34651

But I saw an alfine-equipped bike online here with dual pivot calipers

http://bikehugger.co...e-road-bike-the

If you've been sold a bike with brakes fit for linear pull levers, but the levers are only standard pull, that could explain the bad performance instantly. It would also be easier to argue a fundamental technical fault - just point them to one of Sheldon Brown's pages on the dangers of mixing linear pull and standard pull levers and brakes.

Sorry if this has already been answered before - but thought I would speak up and just ask the dumb quesitions first. I'm paranoid about my brakes...


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## BentMikey (4 Apr 2011)

I don't think I would want to accept brakes that "worked" like that. I'd want them to fix it, upgrade the brakes, or replace the entire bike.


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## sonic (4 Apr 2011)

As someone who knows more than a little about these things (), I'd really like to know more about the problems you've been having. Could you explain exactly what your problem with the brakes has been, gaz? And Mr. smiorgan, I thought you might be interested to know that the lyra comes in two versions - a short pull and a long pull, depending on whether you want to run them with road or MTB levers. The assumption would be that the dayone is fitted with short pull calipers, though this can easily be checked by looking at the position the "arm" points at when at rest. I guess it's something gaz could check if he hasn't done already.

I have run lyras (indeed one of them with a shimano rotor) for a while now with no issues at all. not as nice as the BB7s i was running before, mind, but still perfectly fine. I could list a hundred things that might fix the problem, but i'd really like to hear what exactly the problem is.

Unfortunatly, i can't see you having much luck with the "fit for purpose" line - as long as they provide minimal braking power, they are fit for pupose - you'd be suprised at exactly how sh*t a brake can be and still be legal. And again, just cause something needs constant adjustment, doesn't really mean it isn't fit for purpose either.


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## gaz (4 Apr 2011)

Sonic, on your later points, i feel i could argue that brakes on a £1000 bike that need constant adjustment to provide me with me safe braking is not fit for purpose.

Anyway, i appreciate any help you can give me in resolving my issues.

My issue is with the rear brake. I set the pads up correctly and it works for a few times, but on occasions you pull the brake and you will feel the pads make contact with the rotor and I start to slow down. Then suddenly it goes past a point and it feels as if the pads just let go. As if the cable snapped but it hasn't. There is a loud clicking sound when this happens. It basically makes indicating right whilst slowing down or stopping impossible.
I felt this was originally resolved when spacers where added and the pads sat properly on the rotor.

My other issue is the constant (i'm talking 2+ times a week) need for adjustment of the pads for the brakes to operate at a satisfactory level (For me). I expect to be able to stop pretty quickly on these and i can do after i've tweaked them, it just doesn't last very long.


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## teletext45 (4 Apr 2011)

i've used this act before, its the sales of good act 1974, ammended 1994 under secion C sale of good fit for purpose.

If it was me i would speak to citizen advise bureau. In my case i approached them with a strongly written letter and the folded at the kness and offered me a refund and voucers. 

worth a go imho 

andy


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## smiorgan (5 Apr 2011)

@sonic - yeah, I'm not surprised they come in 2 versions, I have a road actuated BB7 in the shed. Just thought I'd ask in case the factory bought a batch of the wrong model.

@gaz - that sounds broken - sudden and catastrophic failure, totally different problem to the brakes being a bit weak. No idea how these brakes work, but it sounds like a snail cam or something, if you can pull it harder and harder until it suddenly slackens off with a crack. It would explain why your brakes work when the pads are set up close, but as soon as your cable stretches requiring a bit more pull then you can go past the "point of no return". Can you replicate it at home on the bike stand?

Anyway it sounds defective from your description, and therefore unsafe. I'd demand my money back or a replacement brake. Good luck man


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## Jezston (5 Apr 2011)

I'd ask to return it and settle on a properly fitted replacement brake.

What did Genesis say when you contacted them? Nothing? Sad - they were VERY talkative via email when I was interested in getting one of those myself, although sadly the conversation ended when they said "no they will only come in orange"


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## joebe (5 Apr 2011)

Gaz,

I have an identical problem on the Day one. It started on Friday (the bike's about 4 months old and done about 1500 miles). I made adjustments last night which have helped, but the problem reappreared after about 5 miles of my commute this morning. I'm going to contact the LBS, but I'm a little shocked to say the least that Genesis seem to be ignoring this fault, which is, afterall, pretty catastrophic.


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## Twenty Inch (5 Apr 2011)

Consumer Direct will provide you with a template letter.

Stop f*cking around taking the bike back - registered letter to head office, saying you want a refund as the bike is not fit to ride, give them 2 weeks to respond, follow-up registered letter, small claims court.


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## gaz (5 Apr 2011)

Jezston said:


> I'd ask to return it and settle on a properly fitted replacement brake.
> 
> What did Genesis say when you contacted them? Nothing? Sad - they were VERY talkative via email when I was interested in getting one of those myself, although sadly the conversation ended when they said "no they will only come in orange"



They where happy to talk, but dismissed any nature of an issue with the bike.




joebe said:


> Gaz,
> 
> I have an identical problem on the Day one. It started on Friday (the bike's about 4 months old and done about 1500 miles). I made adjustments last night which have helped, but the problem reappreared after about 5 miles of my commute this morning. I'm going to contact the LBS, but I'm a little shocked to say the least that Genesis seem to be ignoring this fault, which is, afterall, pretty catastrophic.



Good luck, i will post at some point how i got on with it.





Twenty Inch said:


> Consumer Direct will provide you with a template letter.
> 
> Stop f*cking around taking the bike back - registered letter to head office, saying you want a refund as the bike is not fit to ride, give them 2 weeks to respond, follow-up registered letter, small claims court.


Just what i needed to get me in gear!


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## sonic (6 Apr 2011)

well, that is some weird problem, gaz. makes me want to examine your bike so bad! I think i will have to sufice with having a wee look at my own lyras when i get back home.

and in response to the "fit for purpose" thing - unfortunatly fair doesn't come into it - just because you expect to get powerful brakes on a £1000 bike, doesn''t mean that when you don't, it isn't fit for purpose. as long as the brakes provide a certain level of power (and trust me, the threshold is very low) then they are fit for purpose. Too many people think they can use "not fit for purpose" as a carte blanche when they are dissatisfied with a product.

having said that, the problem with your rear brake sounds trés mal - I'd definatly say it's is not fit for purpose. Take a look at the brake caliper yourself and see if you can figure out what's wrong


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## MacB (6 Apr 2011)

That sort of slippage sounds like a ratchet or spring not holding and then re-engaging after the brake has been released and reapplied. I'd normally associate that with a fault due to a part wearing or something having loosened over time/not done up tight enough. I'd be surprised if it was a design fault as it's the sort of thing that even the most basic testing would bring to light.

Having to constantly adjust the clearances is weird, if you were riding in rough conditions with heavy brake use, ie muddy cyclocross, then I can see it. But one of my reasons for going with mechanical discs was for the 'fit and forget' aspect. With road use I'd expect to maybe give a tweak once a month and that would be with quite heavy mileage.


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## gaz (6 Apr 2011)

MacB said:


> That sort of slippage sounds like a ratchet or spring not holding and then re-engaging after the brake has been released and reapplied. I'd normally associate that with a fault due to a part wearing or something having loosened over time/not done up tight enough. I'd be surprised if it was a design fault as it's the sort of thing that even the most basic testing would bring to light.
> 
> Having to constantly adjust the clearances is weird, if you were riding in rough conditions with heavy brake use, ie muddy cyclocross, then I can see it. But one of my reasons for going with mechanical discs was for the 'fit and forget' aspect. With road use I'd expect to maybe give a tweak once a month and that would be with quite heavy mileage.


I've taken it into several bike shops and explained / showed the mechanics the issue and nothing was picked up.

I've only used it for commuting on the road, 150miles a week. I wouldn't expect the brakes to need adjusting every 30miles.


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## MacB (6 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> I've taken it into several bike shops and explained / showed the mechanics the issue and nothing was picked up.
> 
> I've only used it for commuting on the road, 150miles a week. *I wouldn't expect the brakes to need adjusting every 30miles*.



Hmm, maybe the two problems are part and parcel of the same thing, something is gradually creeping out of alignment/losing grip and every so often it slips totally on the back brake? Every 30 miles is ridiculous for adjustments and I think you're right to push hard for a resolution to this. Though still early days I've had to make two adjustments, one after bedding the brakes in and truing the rotors and the second after about 1k miles.

Nope, I'd be far from happy in your situation Gaz.


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## BentMikey (6 Apr 2011)

I'd have thought you'd get at least 1-2k miles between needing to adjust them. I'm pretty sure I got something like 3,000 miles out of my Hope mono minis on the front of my previous recumbent before needing to adjust.


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## joebe (6 Apr 2011)

The problem on mine has only just started happening, after about 1500 miles, so they should be well and truely bedded in. Up until then I had hassel free operations. 

And as expected it was much worse this morning compared to last night.

Out of interest, how long should the pads last? I wondered if it might be due to the pads starting to wearout and an indication of them needing replacing, further exacerbated by the use of Shimano rotors which are thinner? 

I wrote to Genesis last night and copied in my local shop, so we'll see.


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## gaz (6 Apr 2011)

I've done 2k on mine and had the issue after only 200 miles.


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## classic33 (6 Apr 2011)

Can I ask why we have brakes fitted(other than the legal requirement). Speaking for myself, they are there to be used to slow down or stop the pedal cycle. If for any reason they fail to do that then I'd have no hesitation in saying that they(the brakes) are not fit for purpose.

I'd take the entire bike back to the shop where it was bought, explain the problem. Also explaining why the entire bike was brought back, so they could see for themselves the problem, as opposed to just the brakes.

Say that I'm leaving the bike with them to sort the issue out. Legally you have to give them the chance to try & sort the problem. If they were then either unable or unwilling to sort the problem, the bike would be taken elsewhere. All parts that required replacing would be replaced, with the cost being passed back to the shop that sold me the bike in the first place. You have a legal right to do this. I've done it. They may try to fob you off, you've had it X months & not done this, until now. 

In your favour is the fact that you have been back a number of times, with the same problem. Against you is the fact that you continued to use the bike with the less than desirable braking feature. The overall value of the bike should not be used as a measurment with regards the quality of the components. However brakes that fail to slow you down are a contradiction in terms.

Make your intentions clear. They can sort the problem out, or you will be getting the problem sorted out passing *ALL* costs incurred in correcting the problem back to them.


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## classic33 (6 Apr 2011)

See
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/template-letters/SGA1979/


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## gaz (6 Apr 2011)

classic33 said:


> Can I ask why we have brakes fitted(other than the legal requirement). Speaking for myself, they are there to be used to slow down or stop the pedal cycle. If for any reason they fail to do that then I'd have no hesitation in saying that they(the brakes) are not fit for purpose.
> 
> I'd take the entire bike back to the shop where it was bought, explain the problem. Also explaining why the entire bike was brought back, so they could see for themselves the problem, as opposed to just the brakes.
> 
> ...


I have been to several shops (it's a chain i bought it from) several times and when even showing the mechanic the issue, it has not been solved!
I've had the bike just under 6 months. And it's been in the shop no less than 7 times!


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## snailracer (6 Apr 2011)

You might try a test ride on another bike of the same model - that should tell you if there is something amiss with your own bike, or if that model has BSO-grade brakes.


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## classic33 (6 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> I have been to several shops (it's a chain i bought it from) several times and when even showing the mechanic the issue, it has not been solved!
> I've had the bike just under 6 months. And it's been in the shop no less than 7 times!



Just using an argument that may be used against you. As said, take the bike back to the shop where you bought it. Your contract lies with them, even if they have passed you onto other shops within the same chain. 

Make it clear exactly what you want doing. Making certain that they fully understand what you want. Leave the bike with them for them to repair the problem, even if this means fitting new brakes to the bike. That it will be done at cost to them, not you. Agree a reasonable time frame for completion. No way round this bit I'm afraid.

If they disagree or are unable to fix the problem, then state clearly that you will be getting the problem fixed elsewhere with all the costs incurred being passed back to them.

Make your complaint to the store manager, making a note of his/her name telling them that you will be following up what you are doing, with a letter to their head office.


I'm glad I never had your problem. 30 miles before having to adjust the brakes. I'd have been doing it twice a day at one stage.


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## Jezston (7 Apr 2011)

SEVEN TIMES?!?

Demand a replacement or full refund.

Damn, and to think I was considering getting a Day One or Croix De Fer. Who was the retailer? Evans? I've generally found their mechanics to be pretty useless - got my last bike from them and it hadn't been assembled properly and was squeaking. They couldn't work out the problem. Turns the rear wheel just wasn't on right. Seriously.


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## gaz (7 Apr 2011)

It was Evans, but from my experience their mechanics are ace. They very rarely are out of the workshop so you are gerrally speaking to a sales guy that rides a bike.
It's like asking someone at pc world about computers.


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## classic33 (7 Apr 2011)

Try getting the the shop to phone
08870 142 0112

and ask for
Mr. Mike Rice Managing Director
or
Mr. Andrew Terrington Operations Director 

Get their view on things.


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## gaz (14 Apr 2011)

An update. Evans have refunded me the full amount.
They will be sending the bike to Madison so they can inspect it. Genesis weren't interested even when Evans contacted them.


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## DrSquirrel (14 Apr 2011)

New bike time!


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## adds21 (14 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> An update. Evans have refunded me the full amount.
> They will be sending the bike to Madison so they can inspect it. Genesis weren't interested even when Evans contacted them.



Good on Evans.

Just out of interest (mainly because I've been considering Genesis for my next N+1), what do Madison have to do with it?


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## MrHappyCyclist (14 Apr 2011)

Good result. Shame about Genesis's attitude, though.


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## gaz (14 Apr 2011)

adds21 said:


> Good on Evans.
> 
> Just out of interest (mainly because I've been considering Genesis for my next N+1), what do Madison have to do with it?


No idea, that is just what I was told. Perhaps that information is not correct.


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## joebe (14 Apr 2011)

I've taken mine back to the LBS and they adjusted the brakes and so far, after 50 miles, so good but we'll see. The shop also tried to contact Madison (Madison owns several brands such as Ridgeback, Saracen , Genesis and Aztec) to get their opinion, but I've not heard anything back. 

Genesis didn't even reply to my email of over a week ago, so I'll write again today just for the hell of it.


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## adds21 (14 Apr 2011)

joebe said:


> (Madison owns several brands such as Ridgeback, Saracen , Genesis and Aztec)



Ah! I see!


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## MacB (14 Apr 2011)

gaz said:


> An update. Evans have refunded me the full amount.
> They will be sending the bike to Madison so they can inspect it. Genesis weren't interested even when Evans contacted them.




Ok, job done, so what are you going for now?


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## Jezston (14 Apr 2011)

Well that's definitely me off ever getting or even recommending a Genesis bike. Was a big fan of the Day One and Croix De Fer until now.

ARE YOU READING THIS GENESIS?


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## adds21 (14 Apr 2011)

Jezston said:


> Well that's definitely me off ever getting or even recommending a Genesis bike. Was a big fan of the Day One and Croix De Fer until now.



Ditto


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## Bicycle (14 Apr 2011)

I've shopped at Evans only once... and had issues with them only once.

I found (on their Website) that they had a road bike with a tiny frame for my child some years ago (43cm).

1. I checked by phone whether it had 700c wheels. They assured me it did. I asked about putting Candy pedals on it. That wouldn't be a problem - something could be worked out with the manager of the store where I collected it.

Since it was a Trek, I had to collect it... It was sitting when I got there on 650s despite assurances to the contrary... I shrugged that off. 700cs had been a preference, but I was OK with the 650s. Then the_ 'no problem'_ Crank Bros pedals were a problem.... so I shrugged that off too.... 

3. Then... The first ride with keen child.... Everything is going "Grrr... Zrrrr.... Galugg-a-lugg-a-lug-a...." Nothing had been adjusted..... Nothing. There had been no PDI. Evans were very surprised to hear how unhappy I was.

The only good bit about dealing with Evans was the cheque I got against the bill for my LBS to carry out the PDI and a £10 Evans token.

I forgot to pay the cheque in and never used the token, but it was sweet gesture.

I won't shop there again.


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## Norm (14 Apr 2011)

Jezston said:


> Well that's definitely me off ever getting or even recommending a Genesis bike. Was a big fan of the Day One and Croix De Fer until now.
> 
> ARE YOU READING THIS GENESIS?


Wow. How many times have I confessed to lusting after both of those machines?

IMO, I don't expect any company to churn out 100% perfect products, but the way they act and react when a lemon is found is critical.

I was kinda discounting gaz's bike as the bad luck lemon which any manufacturer can produce. But the way that Genesis appear to have dealt with it is not the action of a company that I could ever contemplate for myself, let alone recommend to others.


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## BentMikey (14 Apr 2011)

Evans did good though, by gaz's account. They've been fine when I had to return a product too, and given me good service other times. I'll shop there again.


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## Jezston (14 Apr 2011)

Norm said:


> Wow. How many times have I confessed to lusting after both of those machines?
> 
> IMO, I don't expect any company to churn out 100% perfect products, but the way they act and react when a lemon is found is critical.
> 
> I was kinda discounting gaz's bike as the bad luck lemon which any manufacturer can produce. But the way that Genesis appear to have dealt with it is not the action of a company that I could ever contemplate for myself, let alone recommend to others.



Quite. I have two main criteria when judging a company and it's products:

1. How much their stuff goes wrong.
2. What they do about it when it does.

For a lot of companies, such as retailers, they can't do much about 1, so what they do in the case of 2 is absolutely crucial.


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## gaz (14 Apr 2011)

BentMikey said:


> Evans did good though, by gaz's account. They've been fine when I had to return a product too, and given me good service other times. I'll shop there again.



Oh yes, this is the second time i've had to deal with evans customer services (first time was minor) and on both occasions they have been fantastic.
It's obviously a shame that it came to this, I gave Evans the chance to fix it several times, and i'm just presuming that it is something so random and obscure that it couldn't be fixed. Not an issue with them.
I spoke to the manager of my local store when i returned it today, and he said he wouldn't have sold me that bike in the first place. It's a shame that he wasn't there when i bought it!
I will continue to shop there, it's a shop i choose over the likes of Geoffrey butler (which is a stones throw away from my house) and De Ver, arguable two of the best LBS' in south london.



MacB said:


> Ok, job done, so what are you going for now?


I went for the genesis because i wanted a bike which wasn't going to need a lot of attention. It's put me right off getting anything similar. So i'm probably going to look at getting a SS/FG bike which can take full guards and potentially a rack.


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## Meegwell (15 Oct 2011)

gaz said:


> Sonic, on your later points, i feel i could argue that brakes on a £1000 bike that need constant adjustment to provide me with me safe braking is not fit for purpose.
> 
> Anyway, i appreciate any help you can give me in resolving my issues.
> 
> ...


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## Meegwell (15 Oct 2011)

I have a Genesis Day01 with around 1200 miles on it and I've experienced the "clicking" failure on my rear Tektro Lyra brake. It's a real shocker when you effectively lose all rear braking power. Anyway, I've found that it happens or is much more likely when I tighten the cable beyond a critical point. It seems when the rotating piece that the cable pulls (sorry I don't know the proper name) passes a certain point in the counter clockwise direction that the failure happens. If you clamp the cable far enough through the anchor bolt you can make it happen all the time. So, I guess you could say I've solved my problem by ensuring sufficient slack in the cable but this is a slightly pyrrhic victory as the reason I'm mucking with the cable is in an effort to get more braking power when I pull the lever to the handle bar. As I have some pad-rotor clearance when the brake lever is not pulled to play with it seems like an intuitive adjustment. Apparently not.


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## gaz (16 Oct 2011)

Meegwell said:


> I have a Genesis Day01 with around 1200 miles on it and I've experienced the "clicking" failure on my rear Tektro Lyra brake. It's a real shocker when you effectively lose all rear braking power. Anyway, I've found that it happens or is much more likely when I tighten the cable beyond a critical point. It seems when the rotating piece that the cable pulls (sorry I don't know the proper name) passes a certain point in the counter clockwise direction that the failure happens. If you clamp the cable far enough through the anchor bolt you can make it happen all the time. So, I guess you could say I've solved my problem by ensuring sufficient slack in the cable but this is a slightly pyrrhic victory as the reason I'm mucking with the cable is in an effort to get more braking power when I pull the lever to the handle bar. As I have some pad-rotor clearance when the brake lever is not pulled to play with it seems like an intuitive adjustment. Apparently not.



I've found out that this is caused because the shimano rotor is thinner than the tektro rotor that should go with the system. A fix is to remove the shimano rotor and put on a tektro lyra rotor. The best fix is to replace the whole braking system with some avid bb7's (obviously not the brake leavers)


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## Crankarm (16 Oct 2011)

A few years back I bought some MT500 over shoes from Evans. After 3 weeks the stitching was coming apart. So not being in London or near one of their stores I called them and then sent them back. I was told I would be refunded if when Endura inspected them they were found them to be faulty which is contrary to my rights under the SoGA. Within the first 6 months goods are supposed to be of sufficient quality and certainly with in the first 28 days I would be entitled to an immediate refund plus return postage costs. Seven weeks later and weeks of frozen feet I might hasten to add I was sent a replacement pair just ready for spring. No refund of my return postage costs which were £3.43 and packaging, padded bag £1.99. I contacted Evans about the non re-imbursement of my return costs as the original over shoes had been faulty and not of sufficient quality which I made clear in the letter I enclosed when I returned them. They refused which also infringed my statutory rights then I was told they would be re-imbursed me but no re-imbursement ever materialised.

I wouldn't buy ANYTHING ever from Evans ever again. Crooks.


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## jefmcg (17 Oct 2011)

I know this is an old thread but ....

If you buy faulty goods on a credit card, and you are not refunded properly and promptly, take it up with your card provider. They can claw back the money from the merchant.


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## b5mith (11 Jun 2014)

I just want to let people know that my 2013 Kona Jake was also sold with Tektro Lyra brakes, and I have this exact same problem. After some wear, the brake completely gives way. Note that I have both the Lyra calipers & discs, so it's not a problem with mismatched components.

So they seem to have been selling this product at least into 2012 and beyond. Somewhere sits a nervous Tektro executive, hoping their decision to avoid recall will not lead to lawsuits. These brakes are extremely dangerous, no amount of adjustment will change that. If you value your safety, don't ride your bike until you have installed a better braking system. I have my BB7s on order.

Ben


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## Leodis (19 Jun 2014)

I had a similar issue with BB7's on a Kaffenback 2, PX took it back.


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## roadrider (23 Jun 2014)

Well anyway I had a shortlist of 2 bikes I was interested in, a croix de fer or a tricross and I settled on the tricross.(tricross sport disk) So I rang dealer to check if my size was available as it wasn't listed on website. I got talking to a nice fella who told me that he didn't have one and specialized didn't have one in the whole world,all sold out but he also said that even if he had one he wouldn't sell it to me as they were a bad bike because of rubbish spongy brakes. He said that they still hadn't managed to get disc brakes to work properly with dropped handlebars and hopefully next year there would be something better. So is this the case? dropped handlebars and disc brakes aren't a good match? I'll have to start my bike search again if this is true.


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## ianrauk (23 Jun 2014)

roadrider said:


> Well anyway I had a shortlist of 2 bikes I was interested in, a croix de fer or a tricross and I settled on the tricross.(tricross sport disk) So I rang dealer to check if my size was available as it wasn't listed on website. I got talking to a nice fella who told me that he didn't have one and specialized didn't have one in the whole world,all sold out but he also said that even if he had one he wouldn't sell it to me as they were a bad bike because of rubbish spongy brakes. *He said that they still hadn't managed to get disc brakes to work properly with dropped handlebars and hopefully next year there would be something better.* *So is this the case? dropped handlebars and disc brakes aren't a good match?* I'll have to start my bike search again if this is true.



No it's not the case. He is talking complete bollocks.


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## roadrider (23 Jun 2014)

Good to know. Everybody's been complaining about problems with certain bikes/brakes and as gaz is in the market for a new bike along with some others i'm sure, it might be good to hear of anyone who is really happy with their dropped handlebar bike/brake combo.


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## Supersuperleeds (23 Jun 2014)

roadrider said:


> Well anyway I had a shortlist of 2 bikes I was interested in, a croix de fer or a tricross and I settled on the tricross.(tricross sport disk) So I rang dealer to check if my size was available as it wasn't listed on website. I got talking to a nice fella who told me that he didn't have one and specialized didn't have one in the whole world,all sold out but he also said that even if he had one he wouldn't sell it to me as they were a bad bike because of rubbish spongy brakes. He said that they still hadn't managed to get disc brakes to work properly with dropped handlebars and hopefully next year there would be something better. So is this the case? dropped handlebars and disc brakes aren't a good match? I'll have to start my bike search again if this is true.



I've got the Tricross disc and in my opinion the bloke is speaking out of his rear end


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## boydj (23 Jun 2014)

I've built a Croix de Fer this year with TRP HyRd discs - excellent brakes.


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## BSRU (24 Jun 2014)

roadrider said:


> Well anyway I had a shortlist of 2 bikes I was interested in, a croix de fer or a tricross and I settled on the tricross.(tricross sport disk) So I rang dealer to check if my size was available as it wasn't listed on website. I got talking to a nice fella who told me that he didn't have one and specialized didn't have one in the whole world,all sold out but he also said that even if he had one he wouldn't sell it to me as they were a bad bike because of rubbish spongy brakes. He said that they still hadn't managed to get disc brakes to work properly with dropped handlebars and hopefully next year there would be something better. So is this the case? dropped handlebars and disc brakes aren't a good match? I'll have to start my bike search again if this is true.


As stated already, complete bull crap.
My Croix de Fer has BB7's and they are excellent in all weathers.


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## gaz (24 Jun 2014)

I use Hayes CX5's and Avid BB7's with 105 drop leavers and they are both fine.


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## Fust (6 Nov 2014)

Many thanks for this thread. Eight weeks ago both my Tektro Lyra’s failed on a steep 30 mph descent. Pulled front and it went ‘clunk’ and loose. Pulled back harder and it went ‘clunk’ and loose. Had to purposefully crash as accelerating every moment. Trip to hospital for head injuries, acute neck sprain, lacerations and chipped bones. 48 hours later I was still wondering what had happened. Did I just imagine it? Then I read this thread and felt a sickening feeling as if I’d met my murderer. However, a print out of this, and a few others from the internet and the shop has replaced everything, paid for satnav etc to be repaired and got a new bike (with Avid BB7s this time). And it saved me wondering what the hell went on.

I think the reason is now clear. You need to adjust the pads and NOT the cable length. The instructions I had said ‘pull cable until slack taken up’. The newer instructions the shop had were ‘do not have more than 20mm length of cable after the retaining screw on the brake cable’. You would want it around 3 o’clock position. If you pull the slack so the retainer is higher (i.e 12 o’clcok) it can fail. You pull the brake, the cable shortens and then it drops past a dead point under the line of the brake cable. Tektro obviously know this and hence the change of instructions. They’ve just never done a recall to fix it.

So, again, thanks for the thread and I hope, like me, no one else buys a Tektro brake system again. Someone is going to get killed by these.


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