# Decisions, decisions...... 1994 Gt Zaskar LE update/upgrade options.



## I like Skol (4 Dec 2011)

I bought my GT Zaskar back in 1994 as a custom build from Leisure Lakes in Bury and have done very little to improve on the original spec since. Built around an XT groupset, components have only been replaced when worn or broken and, while this has slightly watered down the XT flavour, the basic essence has remained. THE biggest change was fitting a suspension fork about 5 years ago which transformed the ride and handling. I realised the build had been flawed from the start with a very low rise rigid fork originally fitted to the suspension geometry frame (the shop specced the fork!!!) which had given twitchy/sharp handling particularly when down hilling.

For the last few years I have been itching to update the bike because I still love the ride and handling even after all this time but have held back as I really want to end up with a disc braked bike if I spend any significant cash. For a long time that was the debate, soldier on with the existing bike or replace with a modern disc braked MTB.

Well, recently I came across this, shown more clearly installed in a frame in this USA ebay listing and a plan has begun to fall into place. I have ordered, but can return, some new 8 speed shifters as the originals are worn beyond repair and I know my rear wheel rim is starting to bulge on the rim wall due to brake wear so now is a good time.

There are 4 options I can see;

1, The cheapskate! Fit the 2012 8 speed Alivio shifters I have ordered and rebuild the back wheel (I can do this myself) with 1 of the 2 matching used but useable mavic SUP rims I have in the shed. Total cost under £40

2, Go for the disc brakes only. Rear disc adaptor bracket, 2011 XT disc brake set (160mm rotors and front fork already has bosses for disc mount) XT M756 6-bolt hubs/DT DB spokes/Mavic XM719 rims and Alivio 8spd shifters. Keep existing, otherwise functional, drivetrain. Cost £430

3, New 9spd drivetrain. SLX 22/32/44 chainset and new XT shifters with brakes as option 2. A mega range 11-34 cassette that will almost certainly see me discard the granny ring (which suits me fine!). Existing front mech should be fine for this but will suck it and see. Rear mech is 9 spd SLX so good-to-go. Cost aprox £625

4, The whole Hog! 10 SPEED! SLX chainset, shifters and cassette. New XT mechs Fr & Rr with brakes as option 2. Possibly go for 180mm rotor on front? Cost with 180mm rotor upgrade nearly £750

I have some concerns/questions.

The big concern is the rear disc brake adaptor. This involves drilling 2 (M6/6mm?) holes in the drop-out bracket of a heat treated aluminium frame and then imposing braking forces on the weakened drop-out that were never allowed for in the original frame design. Should I run away screaming? EDIT: I have had a closer look at the frame and it appears the bracket will use an existing tapped hole intended for mounting pannier racks so only needs one additional hole drilling. Much less worrying.

Will a 10 speed cassette work on the XT M756 rear hub that is listed as 9 speed? Everything I have read suggests that cassette width for 8, 9 and 10 speed is the same so I assume this isn't an issue?

So there it is. Do I soldier on and repair what needs repairing? Update to modern brakes and leave the functional drivetrain alone or get with the 21st century and do a drivetrain upgrade as well. If I do the drivetrain which is best, 9 or 10 speed, and why? I love the bike, its handling, ride and performance, so a new bike just isn't an option.


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## potsy (4 Dec 2011)

I like Skol said:


> so a new bike just isn't an option.


 
New bike


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## I like Skol (4 Dec 2011)

potsy said:


> New bike


OK.... another new bike isn't an option


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## zizou (4 Dec 2011)

£750 is an awful lot to spend on bike that age...if it is a question of liking the geometry then i think you could get a new Zaskar for similar (i'm not sure how much they have changed the geometry in the intervening years though) It wont be XT but you could upgrade to that over time (anyway midrange components of today will be better than top of the range in the 90s)

If you have your heart set on keeping the bike (i am the same with my first hardtail a Marin from about 1999, still love it) though i'd check out the German websites like Rose Bikes, they often have really good deals on shimano. I'd also be tempted to go with SLX over XT, it is cheaper, works just as well and will likely last longer - with the penalty of being a bit heavier.


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## HovR (4 Dec 2011)

I'd personally go with option 2, except only fitting a front disc, and leaving the rear as V's. V brakes on the rear will suffice, and you won't have to worry about drilling holes in the frame. And obviously it will save you some money!


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## YahudaMoon (4 Dec 2011)

I don't know nothing about the bike or components really though in my experience with a mid range bikes is just move on. Sell it or scrap it for spares. Unless that is you have some kind of classic bike or it has sentimental value.

If I ever see a bike out, that is it do'nt get stolen, my last one I broke the spider arm so a new chain set was in order

Chain set was £40. It also needed a chain, block, tyres, sps were hammered and the cables were in need of replacement and the rims needed replacing Also the bar tape was held together with insulation tape and the paint work looking shabby, flaked / scratched. Also the headset bearings needed servicing or replacing.
Total cost was coming in at about £300 + if I did the work for a £800 bike when new

I think there is a time when a bike has had its day and a new one is needed though saying that, some bikes are worth spending money on for ever


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Dec 2011)

Option n. Restore it to original spec using period parts, or turn it into an ss mtb (retaining all the bits so you can put if back again)

Then go ride a modern hardtail mtb an see how much things have moved on since '94.


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## ushills (5 Dec 2011)

Personnally, i know that frame and it was a brilliant bike. If I were you I would add a front disc to the forks (I assume they are disc ready) and stick with 8 speed as with a triple on the front I would stick with the strength of 8 speed. I have a Ribble R4 from the same period that I fitted Mazzochi Bombers to and it is still a really light hardtail MTB i.e. 9kg's.


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## RecordAceFromNew (5 Dec 2011)

8 speed is better than 9 or 10 speed for most purpose because it is more robust. Is 16/24 speed really not enough? What is the motivation for new drivetrain? You certainly don't need to go 9/10 speed to get a 11-34 cassette. If you want more bling than the Alivio then XTR-m950/951 brifters/shifters come up on ebay quite regularly, a good set will last and essentially free to own/use since it appreciates in value over time.

Avid bb7 is usually considered the best cable disc brake. I'd agree only for the front in this case. There is a weight penalty going for discs. Not only are the brakes/rotors/mounts heavier, equivalent wheels are too.


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## lukesdad (5 Dec 2011)

option 1.


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## Zoiders (5 Dec 2011)

Go backwards.

Find some new old stock bits and possibly even some canti's and return it to how it was as new with rigid forks, it's a much cheaper project to persue but the end result will look and probably ride much better than trying to fasten squillions of quids worth of new kit to it.

Retro MTB's bikes are the new Fixed.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Go backwards.
> 
> Find some new old stock bits and possibly even some canti's and return it to how it was as new with rigid forks, it's a much cheaper project to persue but the end result will look and probably ride much better than trying to fasten squillions of quids worth of new kit to it.
> 
> Retro MTB's bikes are the new Fixed.


I find it more than a little disturbing that Zoiders and I are in complete agreement. (for once)


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## I like Skol (5 Dec 2011)

Go back in time! LOL The bike was good but wrong when I first got it so I don't want to go back there. The Cannondale P-bone fork was light but soooooo incredibly stiff that it was hard to ride for long lengths of time (but I was harder!!!!) and the low height of the fork created such a steep head angle that the steering was snappy sharp. These two factors together made the ride and handling interesting, intense and full on. Fitting the Marzochi Bomber forks was the big break the frame demanded and the low travel (by todays standards) 80mm suspension fork is what the frame was designed for and really put the handling in the sweetspot of perfection. Luckily the original build included V-brakes so there is no chance of going to Canti's.

Thanks for all the comments, they have helped.

Going back to a retro build or a single speed isn't going to happen. I'm not big on nostalgia and this is an MTB which scales steep mountains then hurtles down again so tell me where a single speed drivetrain fits in to this? I am also not going to keep it as a collecters piece and get a second MTB that actually gets used for real, it's this bike and this bike only.

The reason I considered the drivetrain upgrade was because matching the 32t middle chain ring with a 34t cassette would have matched the 28t granny to 11-28 cassette I am currently running and allow me to ditch the granny ring which is seldom used anyway. I cannot imagine using a 22/34 ratio as this would be far lower (higher?) than I have ever needed or expect to need. I guess this answers the question about the drivetrain, don't fix what ain't broken.

This brings me back to a straight choice between keeping V-brakes or retro fitting discs. I am really keen on discs as this totally eliminates the rim wear problem. I have never liked considering rims as consumables, it just seems such a mechanically inellegant solution when they will obviously wear so quickly with all the mud they are exposed to in this country. I think I am going to have to give this some more thought. The V-brakes have never been anything below excellent and are always up to the job but I do like the disc brakes, Hmmmmmm........ decisions!


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## YahudaMoon (5 Dec 2011)

So how much more cost / work / time effectiveness ect ...on rim replacement over disc brake replacement parts ?


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2011)

retro fitting discs on a frame not designed for them may well condemn your frame to an early grave....


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## lukesdad (6 Dec 2011)

Put discs on the M4 start of this year ( compatible for Vs or discs) they re comming off for next year back to Vees for me, after 3 sets of pads they re a pain in the a**e.


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## I like Skol (7 Dec 2011)

Well, a compromise of sorts. I have fitted the alivio lever/shifters to get me back on the road and will monitor the rim wear issue (can't see any bulge yet but can feel the brakes grabbing at a certain spot). I have realised I have a set of LX 8spd shifter pods I fitted to my wifes bike many years ago and these have had little use so can be swapped with my new alivio ones should I decide to revisit the disc conversion in the new year. In the mean time I am off out to brave the hail and wind to get a few miles on the MTB and check out the sweet gear shifts I should have now


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## I like Skol (15 Oct 2013)

OK folks. It's been a long time coming but the MTB did it's final trip today (Llandegla, which was fabulous) and is about to be stripped ready for its rebuild.

A quick weigh-in before the dismemberment begins shows a healthy 13.1kgs/28.7lbs. Weight loss isn't the aim here but it will be interesting to see if this goes up or down.

I finally opted for full Shimano XT. The only exception is an M442 chainset as I prefer square taper cranks over the Hollowtech II system which hasn't shown good bearing life on my commuter hybrid. I am going to ditch the 22T granny ring and run a 32/44 chainset with 9spd 11-34 cassette to give me a slightly lower gear over my old 28T granny-28T cassette. Added into the mix are Mavic XM719 rims, DT competition spokes, Truvativ flat bar and matching stem and a Charge Spoon saddle.

I'm going in! Hold my beer and watch this...........


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## fossyant (15 Oct 2013)

JE James have Deore LX m570 chain sets for £29.99 (square taper and will require a 110mm or 113mm BB)


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## I like Skol (15 Oct 2013)

fossyant said:


> JE James have Deore LX m570 chain sets for £29.99 (square taper and will require a 110mm or 113mm BB)


 I've already bought all the bits and got THIS but the JE James site has THIS which is confusing! Is it XT or LX? For an XT marked crank I might be persuaded to buy one for completeness. Actually, a bit more reading suggests the XT cranks are Octalink


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## I like Skol (15 Oct 2013)

A bare frame doesn't weigh much..... If I took the bottom bracket and headset cups out I reckon it would float away?


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## Boris Bajic (16 Oct 2013)

*Option 1.* You already know it is the best way. You are only asking us to test our faith.

I have a 1991 rigid Kona (8-speed cassette and canti brakes) and two newer MTBs (both hardtails, one V-brake and one hydraulic disc). I am allowed that many because I have children who steal them. They cover about 25 years of MTB evolution between them and all are excellent in their own way.

The Kona is the closest to your GT, although maybe my aluminium V-Braked Trek (Circa 2000) is also similar. Both would be daft with discs or other flashy parts.

If you take this lovely old jewel into the world of disc brakes, you will regret it. They are better, but you also lose a lot by fitting them. Stay with the V-brake set-up!

This is a tool for smashing over the ground. Spend enough to keep it pure, keep it simple and keep it strong.


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## fossyant (16 Oct 2013)

That's just a chain ring on JE James - looks LX/XT compatible


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## I like Skol (16 Oct 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> If you take this lovely old jewel into the world of disc brakes, you will regret it. They are better, but you also lose a lot by fitting them. Stay with the V-brake set-up!
> 
> This is a tool for smashing over the ground. Spend enough to keep it pure, keep it simple and keep it strong.


 Too late for that I'm afraid! All the bits are sat on my bench waiting to go on. The front wheel has just been tensioned and I will see if I have time to do the rear later today. XT disc brakes are the tool of choice.

The poll was started in Dec 2011


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## fossyant (16 Oct 2013)

Pics of progress ?


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## I like Skol (17 Oct 2013)

I'll try and get some as I go along. Frame sat next to my desk at work as I type and wheels completed with tyres, discs and cassette hung in my 'room' at home. I toyed with the idea of doing a fully pictorialised build thread but as I don't often read anyone elses I figured who would be bothered about mine?


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## M1ke (17 Oct 2013)

potsy said:


> New bike



+1 

Bikes have come a long way since 1994. What you think is a good ride now might seem like a horror story if you were to try a new bike.


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## I like Skol (17 Oct 2013)




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## Cubist (18 Oct 2013)

I like Skol said:


> I'll try and get some as I go along. Frame sat next to my desk at work as I type and wheels completed with tyres, discs and cassette hung in my 'room' at home. I toyed with the idea of doing a fully pictorialised build thread but as I don't often read anyone elses I figured who would be bothered about mine?


 I would.


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## Mo1959 (18 Oct 2013)

I like Skol said:


> I'll try and get some as I go along. Frame sat next to my desk at work as I type and wheels completed with tyres, discs and cassette hung in my 'room' at home. I toyed with the idea of doing a fully pictorialised build thread but as I don't often read anyone elses I figured who would be bothered about mine?


I am also keen to see how it turns out and would love to see pics.


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## I like Skol (18 Oct 2013)

Oh hell yeah. There will be pictures of the finished beast. I just won't be doing a 'I fitted this, then I inserted that and tightened it up with the special bit' type story. Besides, it's a bit late for taking a 'before' picture


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## fossyant (18 Oct 2013)

M1ke said:


> +1
> 
> Bikes have come a long way since 1994. What you think is a good ride now might seem like a horror story if you were to try a new bike.



What ever. Still love my 90's road bikes (2 of) and my "pre suspension" MTB. New bikes don't have the same 'class'. 

It's the rider that counts, and giving skolly a full bouncer would be madness, he'd be riding down building walls, rather than steep staircases as he does !


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2013)

Looks like a good compromise. GTs are a fine bike, and the new ones are nowhere as good as the ones made in the States. Keep that frame rolling.


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## I like Skol (30 Oct 2013)

OK, I have been busy for the last couple of weeks with builders, plasterers and decorating but got a chance to do some bike stuff today. I admit I may have got a bit carried away. An intended quick rub over of the tatty frame with wire wool, just to get rid of the grime and worst of the marks turned into a full-on @fossyant cleaning session involving wire wool for starters, a few hours with rags and Brasso for main course, followed by a desert of Magnolia and Cherry Mr Sheen.
The frame was transformed from this-





to this-












I think you will have to agree, well worth the sweat?

Tomorrow I hope to start hanging new bits on this lovely polished beauty.


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## potsy (31 Oct 2013)

That looks great, will almost be a shame to get it dirty


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## Mo1959 (31 Oct 2013)

@I like Skol Amazing. I've just purchased an old Claud Butler Cape Wrath for the princely sum of £72 from ebay with a silver frame so what you have done gives me hope that it will clean up well too.


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## I like Skol (31 Oct 2013)

potsy said:


> That looks great, will almost be a shame to get it dirty


 I know, but I'm sure I'll get over it. I have planned regular cleaning sessions for the bike this time...... The first one is booked in for 2020 



Mo1959 said:


> @I like Skol Amazing. I've just purchased an old Claud Butler Cape Wrath for the princely sum of £72 from ebay with a silver frame so what you have done gives me hope that it will clean up well too.


 Be warned, it is pretty hard physically and takes time! Fortunately the Brasso didn't appear to damage the decals much. I simply rubbed up to the edge of them and the black, aluminium laden, gunk wiped off while still damp without staining the plastic. I tested this on an inconspicuous spot first. Good luck with yours, it is very satisfying to sit back and admire the finished product.


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## fossyant (31 Oct 2013)

That looks great Skolly. Fab job done there.  Top Marks !!


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## Gravity Aided (31 Oct 2013)

Excellent. Results well worth the trouble.


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## fossyant (31 Oct 2013)

Skolly's got me started. The decals on my Diamond Back are getting a little tired - started lifting some years ago. Just ordered some replacement decals. Just test removed one set on the non-drive side chainstay - hair dryer and just pealed off. Surface under is sound. New ones ordered !


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## potsy (31 Oct 2013)

I like Skol said:


> I know, but I'm sure I'll get over it. I have planned regular cleaning sessions for the bike this time...... The first one is booked in for 2020
> .


That's good, was starting to get worried about you for a minute


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## I like Skol (31 Oct 2013)

Lots done today but ran out of time due to Halloween commitments. Bike is rolling but needs chain and brakes. Will post some pics in the morning, absolutely loving the brown saddle............

Did get distracted in the afternoon building up a bike for my 10yr old 
It's a Frankenstein with disc brakes and 2 x 8 gears on a home made 11-32 cassette and home made 'compact' 22-38 chainset. Waiting for the XT centrelock discs to arrive.


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## fossyant (1 Nov 2013)

Nothing wrong with pulling cassettes to bits. I've got loads and loads of sprockets spare.


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## I like Skol (1 Nov 2013)

Will try and get it finished today but lots of chores calling and I'm back in work tonight.


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## dan_bo (1 Nov 2013)

That looks really really smart. Really.


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## Mo1959 (1 Nov 2013)

@I like Skol Quick question if you don't mind........I think from the poor picture of the bike I am getting that there may be slight surface rust/pitting on the fork stanchions. What would be the best way to clean it off? If I am happy with the bike I could upgrade them later but just looking to get it going initially.


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## I like Skol (1 Nov 2013)

Right, I have to typwe really quick coz I should have been on my way to work 5 minutes ago!

Done and ridden up and down the road.... BRILL. a couple of small tweaks still required but basically right out of the box.






And this is the main reason for it all.......





Got to go, bye!

PS, expect no mercy!


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## dan_bo (1 Nov 2013)

My mate's got a Zaskar frame waiting for me. Was looking at that disc conversion as well- looking on with intrest. It's red ano so it'll need rubbing back to alloy.


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## lukesdad (1 Nov 2013)

Very nice, glad you didn't take my vote into account !


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## I like Skol (2 Nov 2013)

Mo1959 said:


> @I like Skol Quick question if you don't mind........I think from the poor picture of the bike I am getting that there may be slight surface rust/pitting on the fork stanchions. What would be the best way to clean it off? If I am happy with the bike I could upgrade them later but just looking to get it going initially.


If the stanchions are chromed then wire wool or very fine wet & dry (1200 or 1600?) used wet should polish out the worst well enough to keep them going for a while.


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## Cubist (2 Nov 2013)

Wow.


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## fossyant (4 Nov 2013)

Looking good. That rear converter looks the part !


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## Crackle (4 Nov 2013)

fossyant said:


> Looking good. That rear converter looks the part !


It does doesn't it. I'd read good and bad things about them. Very much depends on the bike but that looks fine.


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## I like Skol (4 Nov 2013)

fossyant said:


> Looking good. That rear converter looks the part !


 


Crackle said:


> It does doesn't it. I'd read good and bad things about them. Very much depends on the bike but that looks fine.


 I am still not convinced that it is a great step for the frame to have a 6mm hole drilled through the dropout at the intersection of the rear triangle tubes but I am prepared to risk it and having seen the metal left after the surgery I am a bit more confident it will survive (besides,I am only a gentle rider ). It is a nicely made part and gives the bike a new lease of life. There is some amount of personal choice on where to drill the holes to get the best alignment and I probably deliberated for at least an hour before switching on the drill


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## ColinJ (20 Jan 2020)

Excellent job! 

The reason I was looking at this old thread is that I was searching for info on Zaskars. My cousin has just been in touch about coming down for this year's Tour de Yorkshire. He is buying a 29er and asked if I would like to '_adopt_' his current Zaskar! My old MTB has been out of action for a while and I was about to sort that out but since I will be getting the Zaskar, I think I will make my old bike a 1x11. There wouldn't really be any point in me owning 2 similar triple-chainset hardtails.


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