# Which Ortlieb panniers?



## oxford_guy (5 Mar 2009)

I've decided to get myself a set of proper waterproof panniers for my upcoming cycle camping tour of Islay and Jura (and for trips further afield in the future) and Ortlieb seems the obvious choice, but which ones to go for? There are at least 4 possible combination, as there are two different styles (the roll-over "Roller" and lid and buckle "Packer") and two different material types (the older, thicker PVC "Classic" and the newer, lighter "Plus"):

1) Back Roller Classic (1900g)

2) Bike Packer Classic (2080g)

3) Back Roller Plus (1680g)

4) Bike Packer Plus (2070g)

I *think* the "Classic" material is probably slightly more waterproof than the "Plus" material, but I think I prefer the look of the "Plus" better and its lighter (especially for the Back Roller), which is definitely a major plus.

I'm having more trouble choosing between the Roller and Packer styles - am assuming the former is a little more watertight, there's less to break/go wrong and is possibly less tempting to thieving paws. It also weighs less. However, access looks easier with the Packer (not always a bonus) and the extra pockets could be useful. 

Please help me to decide! Assume cost is only a minor consideration. Thanks!


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## summerdays (5 Mar 2009)

I went for Roller as you could leave it open and pack more stuff in coming back from the shops. I do miss having outside pockets - but previous pannier did and I caught a pen on a gate post and riped the net pocket. Has anyone ever added on one of those pockets on the back? But you might use the pannier completely differently.

On my mini tour last year I did find it a bit of a pain un rolling it and re-rolling it, so ended up just attaching some things onto the rack. The waterproofing was thoroughly tested and passed.This year bought a bar bag to get around that problem.


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## numbnuts (5 Mar 2009)

Islay and Jura what a lovely place to go camping, I’ve just done a google on it and I’m jealous


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## oxford_guy (5 Mar 2009)

summerdays said:


> I went for Roller as you could leave it open and pack more stuff in coming back from the shops. I do miss having outside pockets - but previous pannier did and I caught a pen on a gate post and riped the net pocket. Has anyone ever added on one of those pockets on the back? But you might use the pannier completely differently.
> 
> On my mini tour last year I did find it a bit of a pain un rolling it and re-rolling it, so ended up just attaching some things onto the rack. The waterproofing was thoroughly tested and passed.This year bought a bar bag to get around that problem.



Will definitely be getting the Medium size (7l?) Ortlieb bar bag and map case, in either "Plus" or "Classic" fabric, depending on the choice for the panniers...


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## andym (5 Mar 2009)

I don't think there is any difference in waterproofness between the Classic and Plus. According to my 2007 catalogue both will float and neither is submersible, and the waterproof coatings are applied to the inside - so any difference in surface texture is merely that. Ortlieb warranty both as waterproof and as far as I'm concerned something is either waterproof or it isn't.

I went for the plus as I like the understated look of the black material. I seem to recall reading somewhere they are also more eco-friendly because no PVC is used but I have no basis for judging whether that is actually true, or whether there is any benefit.


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## Bodhbh (5 Mar 2009)

I had the packer at the front and roller at the back, and preffered the rollers so I've swapped the packers. I think it's personal preference, but I find the rollers less faff to close and roll down smaller if not full. The outside pockets on the packer were handy for quickly stuffing in maps etc if it was dry, but I guess that's what a barbag is for. They loose little value on eBay, so not the end of the world if if you bought one of each type and sold off the ones you liked least.


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## Cathryn (5 Mar 2009)

Get the yellow ones


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## hubbike (5 Mar 2009)

My gf and I have toured on Islay and Jura and had a great time. There is free camping by the pub in Craighouse opposite the Jura distillery (fantastic smell) or just camp on the white sandy beaches somewhere further along the road. Jura is also great for hill walking if you fancied a bit of that too.


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## willem (5 Mar 2009)

We have scores of the (red) classic rollers, and they are very convenient indeed. In fact, I know of quite a few people who have traded their packers for rollers. If you like the external pockets, you can buy them separately, and fit them later. If you want to save some money, Ortlieb now do a special simpler version of the classic rollers.
Traditionally the classic series was less eco friendly. However, in recent rollers the material seems to have changed a bit (it is stiffer).
Willem


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## oxford_guy (5 Mar 2009)

Cathryn said:


> Get the yellow ones



I was thinking of going for the black ones, to match the understated look of my bike, which is a new dark green Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer...The yellow might work too, though


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## Andy in Sig (6 Mar 2009)

I've got the roller plus and so far they have been totally waterproof. I think you only need the classic if you think you will go somewhere where you are likely to be pursued through thorn bushes by cannibals.


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## oxford_guy (6 Mar 2009)

I'm now having heretical second thoughts about the Ortliebs (at least for the panniers, not the bar bag), after reading this review of them:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/categ...front-and-back/product/back-roller-plus-19090

and this corresponding review of the Vaude Aqua Plus panniers:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/panniers/product/aqua-back-plus-panniers-33924

The main differences between the latter and the Ortliebs are that with the Vaude Aquas, the roll-down top clips to the sides, which does seem more sensible than the Ortlieb arrangement, and the "Plus" version of the Vaude Aqua includes a waterproof outside pocket. 

The price is a little more than the Ortliebs, but not massively:
http://www.ubergear.co.uk/Vaude-Aqua-Back-Plus.html

The Vaude Aqua also has a "hard back in strong plastic, which fully covers the back of the pannier and also includes the edges of the bag. This protects the entire bag, including its edges increasing the bags overall abrasion and impact resistance even further"

They're slightly bigger than than the Ortliebs too - 48+3 Litres vs. 40 litres.

The only real downside is the weight - 2400g for the Vaude Aqua Plus, 2100g for the Vaude Aqua (without outer pocket) vs. between 1680g and 2070g for a pair of Ortliebs... I guess its a matter of deciding if the convenience factor of the side clipping system and the outer pocket is worth the weight trade-off...


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## andym (6 Mar 2009)

The trouble with all of these 'which is best' discussions is that usually there's no clear-cut answer.

It's a pannier. Check. Is it waterproof? Check. Does it have a sturdy fixing? Check. Is it sturdy and robust? Check.

There's not much more to say. Beyond that any differences really come down to personal preference. Personally I can't work out what the problem is that 'dilemma' has with the closure system for the Ortlieb panniers. Seems simple and reliable to me, or what the advantages of the Vaude are. 

I have a set of Vaude Discovery Pro Panniers with the full plastic backs. I'm not convinced they offer any significant advantage over the Ortlieb and any advantage needs to be set against the weight penalty.

Ditto an external pocket. Yes maybe you'll find it a godsend, or maybe you won't.

I'm sure that both will give you years of use. 

I'm sure you will have been on the receiving end of enough opinions by now to realise that different people have different opinions about what is best (eg I'm surprised that the 'I've used Carradice for 25 years' man hasn't popped up on this thread as well). 

All I can recommend is that, if you can, you go to a shop or shops and actually compare the Vaude and Ortlieb panniers and make up your own mind about which one _you_ prefer. If you can't do that then toss a coin, - at the end of the day a good quality pair of panniers will keep its value, and you can always eBay them without taking too much of a loss.


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## yello (6 Mar 2009)

andym said:


> The trouble with all of these 'which is best' discussions is that usually there's no clear-cut answer.



Absolutely. There are usually a number of products that will do the job to your requirements, beyond that is preference and not 'best'.

I use Ortleib classics. If I were to buy again, I'd stay with Ortleib but probably get the roll top ones (for the packing reasons mentioned earlier). But Vaude are a good solid product too, they'll work. Don't fret over 'best', just pick one!



> All I can recommend is that, if you can, you go to a shop or shops and actually compare the Vaude and Ortlieb panniers and make up your own mind about which one _you_ prefer.



Yep, can't disagree there.


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## Cathryn (6 Mar 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> I was thinking of going for the black ones, to match the understated look of my bike, which is a new dark green Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer...The yellow might work too, though



See, my bike's blue so she looks like a swedish flag!!! Black is more manly though.


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## xilios (7 Mar 2009)

Here is another poll from crazyguyonabike.com http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/poll/?o=3Tzut&poll_id=37


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## oxford_guy (27 Mar 2009)

BTW in the end I went for the Vaude Aqua rear panniers (in black), without the pocket, I also picked up a Vauda Aqua bar bag. Am very happy with them so far...


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