# New wheels question



## cabbieman (10 May 2017)

Hi. I'm thinking of upgrading my wheels which have disc brakes on. My question is, are all wheels compatible with disc brakes? As you can tell, I'm a newbie and not sure what or which goes where. Is there a dummies guide to wheels?


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## cyberknight (10 May 2017)

You need to buy disc compatible wheels ,it really depends on what bike and wheels you have as there is a few standards regarding axle width , wheel clamping ( quick release, thru axle etc )


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## cabbieman (10 May 2017)

Thanks. I had a quick look and I thought I was entering a minefield. I need to do a lot more homework methinks


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## tincaman (10 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> Hi. I'm thinking of upgrading my wheels which have disc brakes on. My question is, are all wheels compatible with disc brakes? As you can tell, I'm a newbie and not sure what or which goes where. Is there a dummies guide to wheels?


Tell us what bike you have, and some pics of the wheels, some closeups of the hubs?


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## I like Skol (10 May 2017)

To be frank, at your level of understanding and without knowing what you are trying to achieve through the 'upgrade' I would suggest that as long as your current wheels are working you should stick with them. It is doubtful you will notice much, if any, difference in feel. I certainly don't, but I judge my wheels by reliability and longevity. On the other hand if you have money to waste and want some bling then go for it.....


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## cyberknight (10 May 2017)

I like Skol said:


> To be frank, at your level of understanding and without knowing what you are trying to achieve through the 'upgrade' I would suggest that as long as your current wheels are working you should stick with them. It is doubtful you will notice much, if any, difference in feel. I certainly don't, but I judge my wheels by reliability and longevity. On the other hand if you have money to waste and want some bling then go for it.....


Indeed unless your wheels are made of cheese or weigh a ton each i doubt you will notice much difference, atm i am riding a drop bar hacked mtb with slicks to work, must weigh getting on for 18 kg+ with panniers and compared to my old road bike commuter over my 10 mile commute i am about 2 mins slower max , its only hills i find the extra weight slows me down .
Of course nice wheels are good if you can afford them go for it


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## cabbieman (10 May 2017)

I like Skol said:


> To be frank, at your level of understanding and without knowing what you are trying to achieve through the 'upgrade' I would suggest that as long as your current wheels are working you should stick with them. It is doubtful you will notice much, if any, difference in feel. I certainly don't, but I judge my wheels by reliability and longevity. On the other hand if you have money to waste and want some bling then go for it.....



I was led to believe if I'm going to upgrade anything on a bike then the wheels were one of the best places to start. My cycle buddy always leaves me on a coast or downhill as his wheels just seem to spin better. I am running on 28s opposed to his 25s. Would this make much of a difference.
My wheeler is a Vera Corsa DPD22,double wall, 28/32 formula disc hubs. I'm not at home at the moment so can't take any pictures


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## cyberknight (10 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> I was led to believe if I'm going to upgrade anything on a bike then the wheels were one of the best places to start. My cycle buddy always leaves me on a coast or downhill as his wheels just seem to spin better. I am running on 28s opposed to his 25s. Would this make much of a difference.
> My wheeler is a Vera Corsa DPD22,double wall, 28/32 formula disc hubs. I'm not at home at the moment so can't take any pictures


To many variables , rider weight , wear /smoothness of hubs , type of tyre etc etc


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## S-Express (10 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> My cycle buddy always leaves me on a coast or downhill as his wheels just seem to spin better.



He's probably heavier. 



I like Skol said:


> To be frank, at your level of understanding and without knowing what you are trying to achieve through the 'upgrade' I would suggest that as long as your current wheels are working you should stick with them.



^^ this.


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## Racing roadkill (10 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> I was led to believe if I'm going to upgrade anything on a bike then the wheels were one of the best places to start


Yet another often repeated / regurgitated pile of manure unfortunately.


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## vickster (10 May 2017)

What's your bike? What's his bike etc?

Maybe he's just quicker, them's the breaks

Slightly realign his brakes so they rub and slow him down 




(joke)

You could try lighter, narrower, slicker tyres ... if you're using Marathon Plus that would explain everything...sluggish things (unless he gets slowed by lots of punctures and you don't wait for him  )


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## Milkfloat (10 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> I was led to believe if I'm going to upgrade anything on a bike then the wheels were one of the best places to start. My cycle buddy always leaves me on a coast or downhill as his wheels just seem to spin better. I am running on 28s opposed to his 25s. Would this make much of a difference.
> My wheeler is a Vera Corsa DPD22,double wall, 28/32 formula disc hubs. I'm not at home at the moment so can't take any pictures



What tyres do you have? That is where my first 'upgrade' would be focused.


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## Jody (10 May 2017)

Wouldn't light weight wheels make more of a difference climbing and getting up to speed rather than descending


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## tincaman (10 May 2017)

Do your tyres first, I assume you have 28mm Vittoria Zaffiro?


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## vickster (10 May 2017)

@cabbieman see what this chap thinks of his new tyres 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/h...-or-buy-a-new-carbon-bike.209742/post-4796522


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## tincaman (10 May 2017)

If your bike is the Fuji Sportif 1.1, the the rear hub spacing is 135mm which is pretty standard


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## cabbieman (11 May 2017)

Yes tincaman. This is my bike.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/fuji-sportif-1-1-d-road-bike-2015/rp-prod149504

What bought this on was my friend and I are about the same weight but different bikes and his bike just freewheels smoother than mine. I think i will just change the tyres to begin with. That seems the logical thing to do. 
I don't want to get to obsessed with components. I realise it's more important to just ride. I'm 57. I don't need to race, just need to ride and enjoy


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## vickster (11 May 2017)

Have you checked the wheels are true and hubs are smooth?


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## cabbieman (11 May 2017)

vickster said:


> Have you checked the wheels are true and hubs are smooth?



No. Still a newbie and learning as I go along.


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## vickster (11 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> No. Still a newbie and learning as I go along.


Did you buy online or from a shop? If the latter, take it back and get them to check, easy for them to do


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## cabbieman (11 May 2017)

Bought online but enjoying the opportunity to learn as I go along.


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## Dec66 (12 May 2017)

I agree with everyone else. Change the tyres before you consider the wheels.

@vickster had a pair of 28c Vittoria Rubino Pro's up for sale for a very reasonable price, but sadly for you I got there first 

They're an excellent mid-range tyre, though, with pretty low rolling resistance and robust p*nct*r* proofing, so excellent for everyday use. Go seek them out.


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## cabbieman (12 May 2017)

Dec66 said:


> I agree with everyone else. Change the tyres before you consider the wheels.
> 
> @vickster had a pair of 28c Vittoria Rubino Pro's up for sale for a very reasonable price, but sadly for you I got there first
> 
> They're an excellent mid-range tyre, though, with pretty low rolling resistance and robust p*nct*r* proofing, so excellent for everyday use. Go seek them out.



Haha. Thankyou very much. 
Right. Forget wheels, tyre homework here we come.


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## cabbieman (12 May 2017)

Just a quickie. I'm running 28s at the moment. Is it best to stick with 28s or can I go down to 25s? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to do that.


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## vickster (12 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> Just a quickie. I'm running 28s at the moment. Is it best to stick with 28s or can I go down to 25s? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to do that.


Depending on tyre pressures, 25s should roll better, but the ride could be harder (all assuming the rims will take 25s). Try a premium 25mm tyre like a Continental GP4000 and see how they feel. Keep the 28s for the winter

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-grand-prix-4000s-ii-folding-road-tyre/


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## Dec66 (12 May 2017)

Good site this:

www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

I found out why my B'Twin went so sluggish after I put the Shimano R501's on, it was because I'd bought Vredstien Fortezzas to go on them. Silly me.


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## Cycleops (12 May 2017)

Perhaps just have a closer look at the wheels first. Take them off and spin them holding the axles. They should spin quietly and smoothly, if not take them to your LBS and see what they recommend. Are the discs true? Also spin the wheels on the bike to feel if the pads are binding, if they are adjust them, it's very simple and there some videos on YouTube to help.
Your rims wil take 25c tyres but will make very little difference, the pressures will however. If you can rule out everything else then by all means try a different tyre.


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## Cycleops (12 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> Just a quickie. I'm running 28s at the moment. Is it best to stick with 28s or can I go down to 25s? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to do that.


If you set any store by the site that @Dec66 posted and go for the GP 4000s that vickster suggested according to their test the 28c had a lower rolling resistance than the 23c at the same pressure!


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## tincaman (12 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> Just a quickie. I'm running 28s at the moment. Is it best to stick with 28s or can I go down to 25s? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to do that.


Its generally the thinking now, that unless you race, a 28mm tyre rolls better (less rolling resistance) than a 25/23. The lower pressure you run at also makes it more comfy, and you have slightly more grip. You still need to choose a good tyre though to get these benefits, as tyre compound and carcass rigidity will negate all this if you choose a nasty tyre. You can't go wrong if you can afford the GP4000s


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## Dec66 (12 May 2017)

tincaman said:


> Its generally the thinking now, that unless you race, a 28mm tyre rolls better (less rolling resistance) than a 25/23. The lower pressure you run at also makes it more comfy, and you have slightly more grip. You still need to choose a good tyre though to get these benefits, as tyre compound and carcass rigidity will negate all this if you choose a nasty tyre. You can't go wrong if you can afford the GP4000s


I have to confess, I don't understand that.

Why would a 28c tyre, of a given brand, offer less rolling resistance than a 23c version of the same tyre at the same pressure? I would have thought the narrow tyre would produce less resistance due to it having less surface area in contact with the road, and therefore less friction?

No doubt a clever person will be along in a second with all kinds of complex mathematical formulae to explain this


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## Tim Hall (12 May 2017)

Dec66 said:


> I have to confess, I don't understand that.
> 
> Why would a 28c tyre, of a given brand, offer less rolling resistance than a 23c version of the same tyre at the same pressure? I would have thought the narrow tyre would produce less resistance due to it having less surface area in contact with the road, and therefore less friction?
> 
> No doubt a clever person will be along in a second with all kinds of complex mathematical formulae to explain this


Tyres at the same pressure will have the same surface area in contact with the road. The shape of the contact patch is likely to be different (long and thin vs short and wide) but the area will be the same.


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## tincaman (12 May 2017)

This is a good one to read:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/08/08/the-missing-piece-suspension-losses/
My road bike now runs 30mm Schwalbe S-One tyres, my drop bar commute 40mm G-One's. My times on my typical routes have not changed at all, but I get a much better ride.


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## Cycleops (12 May 2017)

Those G One tyres sound interesting @tincaman Might try some. Are you running them tubeless? If so what's involved?


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## tincaman (12 May 2017)

Cycleops said:


> Those G One tyres sound interesting @tincaman Might try some. Are you running them tubeless? If so what's involved?


Yes tubeless, Have a look on Youtube on how to do it, but ideally you need tubeless rim, tubeless tape, tubeless ready tyres, valves, sealant and some way to deliver a shot of air, like CO2 or a compressor. But be warned, the cost does add up. 


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2DLr-besFo


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## Will Spin (12 May 2017)

You need either, tubeless rim or tubeless tape, but not both. I've done about 1700 miles on my 28mm hutchinsons tubeless in all weathers. It's been a big improvement on tubed as far as puncture related incidents are concerned.


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## Cycleops (12 May 2017)

I can understand how ride would be improved but puncture resistance? I thought that's down to the carcass and it's built in features. Or is it because it's more pliable. What if you do have a puncture?


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## si_c (12 May 2017)

Cycleops said:


> I can understand how ride would be improved but puncture resistance? I thought that's down to the carcass and it's built in features. Or is it because it's more pliable. What if you do have a puncture?


Latex sealant instead of the tube.


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## Milzy (12 May 2017)

I like Skol said:


> To be frank, at your level of understanding and without knowing what you are trying to achieve through the 'upgrade' I would suggest that as long as your current wheels are working you should stick with them. It is doubtful you will notice much, if any, difference in feel. I certainly don't, but I judge my wheels by reliability and longevity. On the other hand if you have money to waste and want some bling then go for it.....


But he may have a Dolmite 6 like me and the hubs stop really quick, the wheels are rubbish. Interested in this thread.


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## Cuchilo (12 May 2017)

Cycleops said:


> I can understand how ride would be improved but puncture resistance? I thought that's down to the carcass and it's built in features. Or is it because it's more pliable. What if you do have a puncture?


Put a tube in . Bonkers isn't it


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## Will Spin (12 May 2017)

si_c said:


> Latex sealant instead of the tube.


This....it's worked...so far. Haven't had to stop to fix a puncture whilst out for a ride.


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## Sea of vapours (12 May 2017)

18,000km on Hutchinson Sector 28 and no need to stop for any punctures so far. The sealant does a very good job. If it fails you're no worse off than if you had tubes and you can just put one in. (Messy, admittedly.)

You _do _need tubeless tape on most tubeless ready wheels. I believe the only case where you don't is on UST rims, where the spokes do not protrude into the well of the rim (or not into a visible well anyway) so a seal is required around the spoke. Most tubless rims are of the 'need tape' sort at the moment so far as I've been able to tell.


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## Will Spin (13 May 2017)

Sea of vapours said:


> 18,000km on Hutchinson Sector 28 and no need to stop for any punctures so far. The sealant does a very good job. If it fails you're no worse off than if you had tubes and you can just put one in. (Messy, admittedly.)
> 
> You _do _need tubeless tape on most tubeless ready wheels. I believe the only case where you don't is on UST rims, where the spokes do not protrude into the well of the rim (or not into a visible well anyway) so a seal is required around the spoke. Most tubless rims are of the 'need tape' sort at the moment so far as I've been able to tell.


Ok, I'm just going on my limited experience which is with Shimano Ultegra wheels, which don't need tape.


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## gbb (13 May 2017)

Radial Cycles, GP4000s ii , tad under £50 a pair. I got them from Radials and look for a discount code, I got mine cheaper than I could get Gators. Delivery was a bit slow though.

Now I have the GP4000S on, I can't say I feel any difference as opposed to Gators.


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## Cuchilo (13 May 2017)

If you dont mind gunk in the tubes then go for tubs , they are a much nicer ride and rather hard to puncture with the gunk in them .


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## al-fresco (13 May 2017)

Cycleops said:


> I can understand how ride would be improved but puncture resistance? I thought that's down to the carcass and it's built in features. Or is it because it's more pliable. What if you do have a puncture?



Usually don't even know that you've had a puncture. About once a year I remove the tyres to check if the sealant requires replenishing and to extract any thorns from the casing. Last October I removed 6 thorns. I do carry a spare tube just in case I encounter a puncture that won't seal but it hasn't been needed yet. If you do hear air escaping (like the time I pulled out a drawing pin out of my front tyre) just spin the wheel and the sealant quickly does its job.


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## spiderman2 (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> View attachment 352099
> 
> 
> If you dont mind gunk in the tubes then go for tubs , they are a much nicer ride and rather hard to puncture with the gunk in them .



What are TUBS ?


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## Cuchilo (13 May 2017)

spiderman2 said:


> What are TUBS ?


Tubs are latex tubes wrapped in silk and hand sewn by virgin maidens into a performance tyre that are then glued onto your wheels for the perfect ride .


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## Cycleops (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> Tubs are latex tubes wrapped in silk and hand sewn by virgin maidens into a performance tyre that are then glued onto your wheels for the perfect ride .


Might not be available in Harrow as there aren't any of those seamstresses left there.


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## spiderman2 (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> Tubs are latex tubes wrapped in silk and hand sewn by virgin maidens into a performance tyre that are then glued onto your wheels for the perfect ride .



sounds nice


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## Cuchilo (13 May 2017)

spiderman2 said:


> sounds nice


a bit more info for you ... https://cycletechreview.com/2012/reviews/schwalbe-ultremo-ht-review/


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## winjim (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> View attachment 352099
> 
> 
> If you dont mind gunk in the tubes then go for tubs , they are a much nicer ride and rather hard to puncture with the gunk in them .


Don't they make for a bit of a bumpy ride with all those pins stuck in them?


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## boydj (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> Tubs are latex tubes wrapped in silk and hand sewn by virgin maidens into a performance tyre that are then glued onto your wheels for the perfect ride .



And in the real world, 'Tubs' are tubular tyres mainly used by racers and the pros. The expensive ones will have latex tubes, wrapped in silk or very fine cotton, with a coating of rubber painted on and glued to the concave rim, which is a lot lighter than a clincher rim. Not ideal for the commute as puncture repairs involve unstitching the tyre, locating and fixing the puncture and re-sowing and re-glueing.


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## HLaB (13 May 2017)

boydj said:


> And in the real world, 'Tubs' are tubular tyres mainly used by racers and the pros. The expensive ones will have latex tubes, wrapped in silk or very fine cotton, with a coating of rubber painted on and glued to the concave rim, which is a lot lighter than a clincher rim. Not ideal for the commute as puncture repairs involve unstitching the tyre, locating and fixing the puncture and re-sowing and re-glueing.


Indeed, that was my main resistance to adopting them for that one event they'd be a night mare. I've put a tubeless disc on one bike (I only use it for commuting on dry days) and it hopefully would be less of a nightmare in that occurrence (a inner tube should get me going) and it arguably rolls better still.


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## spiderman2 (13 May 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> Tubs are latex tubes wrapped in silk and hand sewn by virgin maidens into a performance tyre that are then glued onto your wheels for the perfect ride .



How often do you have to pump them up?


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## Cuchilo (13 May 2017)

spiderman2 said:


> How often do you have to pump them up?


Every time i use them but i do that with most of my bikes . Not a tyre i would choose to commute on or even the type of wheel but for my pleasure bikes they are fantastic . I think the cost puts most people off rather than the " hassle "


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## Bonacentral (13 May 2017)

boydj said:


> And in the real world, 'Tubs' are tubular tyres mainly used by racers and the pros. The expensive ones will have latex tubes, wrapped in silk or very fine cotton, with a coating of rubber painted on and glued to the concave rim, which is a lot lighter than a clincher rim. Not ideal for the commute as puncture repairs involve unstitching the tyre, locating and fixing the puncture and re-sowing and re-glueing.



Thanks for that. I got royally picked on when I questioned what they were when I 1st started cycling. Gave me a good indication of what a lot of cyclists are like. It was a bit like Royston Vasey!!

Not that this belongs here but I had the debate with someone who was running them and he told me all he takes out on his rides is a bit of sealant in case he gets a flat. 

Obviously I am still completely ignorant but he seemed to know what he was on about!


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## Cuchilo (13 May 2017)

Or adding sealant as above and what tubeless people a adding to their set up . But i agree i wouldn't run nice wheels on a commuter bike .


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## johnnyb47 (14 May 2017)

I've just changed my wheels as my Mavic,s were in dire need of a rebuild. The spokes were starting to snap on rides and were working themselves loose every other ride. As I'm now doing longer ride miles I was starting to get a little worried if they failed a long way from home..As money is tight I bought a cheap set of tru build wheels so I've basically down graded. To be perfect honest I've not noticed any difference between them and the better quality Mavic,s. apart from my new wheels being more reliable. In fact I've managed to beat my personal bests on the cheap wheels several times this year. I can't really comment as to whether I'm getting " fitter" or if it's the wheels..
A professional rider for sure , would be able to tell them apart but for a wanabee like me I can't see any deliseranble difference between them. I bet they won't last as long as the Mavics though but I suppose at the end of the day you get what you pay for.


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## smutchin (14 May 2017)

cabbieman said:


> Just a quickie. I'm running 28s at the moment. Is it best to stick with 28s or can I go down to 25s? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to do that.



To add to what others have said, rider weight is also a factor - heavier riders will benefit from wider tyres. 

So, to answer your question... how heavy are you?


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## cabbieman (16 May 2017)

98 kg or 15.4 in old money. After reading all these posts, I think I'm going to go for the conti 400's. I'll save my existing tyres for the winter.


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## Tim Hall (16 May 2017)

Milzy said:


> But he may have a Dolmite 6 like me and the hubs stop really quick, the wheels are rubbish. Interested in this thread.


Not sure what you mean by "the hubs stop really quick."


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## cabbieman (16 May 2017)

Probably means they don't spin very well. Some seem to spin endlessly whilst others appear to drag


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