# COVID and "Bike Privilege"



## wafter (30 Mar 2020)

Just discussing my my GF how bizarre and to a variable extent concerning the experience of going outside one's house currently is.

While I'm no huge fan of people generally and very much appreciate the practical benefits of there being fewer of them in terms of road safety etc, the urban landscape feels alien; it seeming almost oppressive to ride through areas that at every other time you've experienced them have shown far greater signs of life.

This makes me feel somehow conspicuous and self-conscious just for being out; despite my legit defence of exercise. Further to this was the suggestion that there are a lot of Police out and they're pretty aggressively questioning those on the streets. Most would argue legitimately, but I think many now have a much better idea of how it must feel to live in a Police state and the simple act of being observed, stopped and questioned for going about your business is uncomfortable in itself.

However, I find it interesting however that we as cyclists, along with dog-walkers appear to have been afforded new privilege within the social heirachy created by the "lockdown" restrictions. I think if you're out on foot or in the car you're open to getting a tug to see what you're up to, while riding or being carted along by a dog almost offers immunity to this since straight away the image you present conforms to an easily identifiable and legit reason to be out.

I feel like thanks to our current situation we've somehow transcended from our somewhat maigned social standing to a superior, privileged position. Simply from the perspective of personal freedom, we're the only ones who possess the ability to cover reasonable distances just because we feel like it (in the name of exercise); something those on foot can't claim, nor those whose every journey would be in the car and would need to be accompanied by an explanation as to why said journey is essential.

From this perspective it seems that the cyclist currently occupies a unique and privileged position of freedom, for which I'm very grateful - anyone else feel similar?


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## I like Skol (30 Mar 2020)

I don't feel this sense of privilege. I have a choice to drive or cycle the 10 miles to work and choose mostly to cycle. I do this with impunity and no feeling of guilt.
I haven't yet undertaken a ride purely for leisure or exercise for two reasons. First, I am getting my 'fix' of exercise from my commute and secondly I feel that to ride just for pleasure would, to some extent, be taking the pish given the current situation.
If my work situation changes and I find myself needing to ride for sanity and exercise (like I often do when holidaying abroad) I will ride but will not feel privileged by doing so and should be able to justify my ride as a necessity rather than just going out for a jolly!


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## DaveReading (30 Mar 2020)

wafter said:


> I think if you're out on foot or in the car you're likely to get a tug to see what you're up to



That's a gross misrepresentation of what's happening (or rather, isn't) in most of the country.


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## slowmotion (31 Mar 2020)

I feel a lot more fortunate that some people who have had their chosen physical activity cut off ( gym rats, footballers etc etc ), and I like being able to see more of the world during my daily exercise allowance. I'm not sure if that counts as privilege.


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## Pale Rider (31 Mar 2020)

Illness has confined me to car transport recently, but I agree with the feeling of being conspicuous.

A journey is becoming more stressful because I first have to run it through the mixture of rules, regulations, and advice to establish if I should be making it.

On my way home from one of my hospital clinic appointments earlier I had to do a mental check to reassure myself a proposed diversion to a corner shop for a pint of milk was in full compliance.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2020)

Walking is still allowed, and not just dog walking. 

I've done a fair amount of cycling at night in the early hours. The roads("A" roads) were as quiet at that time of day as they are during the day now. It can feel different, and you'll notice things you'll have missed when it was busier. Roads normally busy and there's only you on them. 

Make the most of the quiet roads, whilst you can. They'll soon be busy again.


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## Gravity Aided (31 Mar 2020)

There is nothing wrong with exercise. Trails were quite busy at the week-end, as in The States it is one of the few things you can do outside. People are encouraged to exercise, just not in any groups.


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## steveindenmark (31 Mar 2020)

How do you question people aggressively? 

Is it asking direct questions such as "Where do you live" and "Where are you going"


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

I don't feel nuffin'. I've never been one for caring what other people think, and I'm not about to start now. 

I mind my own business by doing what I'm permitted to do, and nothing more - no cheeky pushing of the boundaries from me, I know exactly the spirit in which these rules were intended as well as the letter of the law, and a time of national crisis is not the time to be extracting the urine. Screw what anyone else thinks about it - life is too short to be concerned with the thoughts of others.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Mar 2020)

There's no time limit or permitted distance in our state, just the requirement to keep a physical distance between you and others, so cycling is seen as a perfectly reasonable way to get about.



steveindenmark said:


> How do you question people aggressively?
> 
> Is it asking direct questions such as "Where do you live" and "Where are you going"



You can ask the same questions aggressively or non-aggresively: I can't comment on the current UK police methods for obvious reasons, but I've experienced immigration officials in the UK asking questions in a friendly manner and exactly the same questions in an aggressive manner.


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Mar 2020)

I've been doing quite a bit of cycling by my standards, since the weather has improved. And doing some walking. Sometimes even both on the same day. That's two forms of exercise. Very naughty! No hassle from the Old Bill, either on foot or on two wheels. Most people are only out in ones and twos not large groups, although I have noticed more groups of Yoofs hanging around in side alleys and other slightly out of the way places, where they can't easily be seen and moved on by passing coppers.. They aren't doing it openly in town centres though.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

"I'm sorry officer, you're questioning me with a view to establishing in your mind whether or not I may be committing an offence. That being the case, I would like to exercise my rights to a solicitor under PACE Code C before allowing myself to be questioned further."

The emergency laws give officers dispersal powers, powers to issue fixed penalty notices (not fines), and even to arrest for certain infringements, but they give the officers no powers to question you and do not usurp any section of PACE.


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## steveindenmark (31 Mar 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> There's no time limit or permitted distance in our state, just the requirement to keep a physical distance between you and others, so cycling is seen as a perfectly reasonable way to get about.
> 
> 
> 
> You can ask the same questions aggressively or non-aggresively: I can't comment on the current UK police methods for obvious reasons, but I've experienced immigration officials in the UK asking questions in a friendly manner and exactly the same questions in an aggressive manner.


Im still not getting it. You can ask a question by going round the houses or ask a direct question. 

Whichever way, you dont have to answer them. Let them arrest you 😁 Enjoy a new experience. The first thing they will tell you is that you dont have to say anything. There is no offence of not answering a police officers questions 👮😁


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

There is an offence of not giving you identity details to an officer who has reasonable grounds to require them, the proverbial name rank and number if you like - the officer decides what reasonable grounds are, not the person being questioned.

As for the rest of it in the current situation, give your name, DoB, address, and assure them that you're on your way to work/to collect essential supplies/taking your days single exercise period, and nothing more. They don't need to know where you work or where you're collecting your shopping from or what your essential supplies consist of, and they don't have the power to ask. Politely all the while, or course - no point being arrissey for the sake of it.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> There is an offence of not giving you identity details to an officer who has reasonable grounds to require them, the proverbial name rank and number if you like - the officer decides what reasonable grounds are, not the person being questioned.
> 
> As for the rest of it in the current situation, give your name, DoB, address, and assure them that you're on your way to work/to collect essential supplies/taking your days single exercise period, and nothing more. They don't need to know where you work or where you're collecting your shopping from or what your essential supplies consist of, and they don't have the power to ask. Politely all the while, or course - no point being arrissey for the sake of it.



That's interesting: I've had a couple of people try and tell me that I live in a 'police state' because I have to carry my ID card, but if it is an offence in the UK not to give personal details then it isn't that much different.
As far as I know, the police here have to tell you why they are asking for your ID, and I think you can refuse although that will of course escalate the situation. Some of my clients would be stopped regularly for "ID checks", although we pointed out that if they will insist on wearing tattoos and shaving their head then it is to be expected: we know they're good lads and wouldn't hurt a fly, but the police don't.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

To be fair, your average copper in the UK is liable to be sensible and sympathetic to any situation. As with the society from which they are recruited, there will be chumps and no point winding them up if you meet one.

If I get stopped while out and about in the current emergency I'll happily tell them who I am, and the reason for my excursion under the current guidelines in the broadest of terms, but they're not entitled to more than that and I won't be giving them more than that. Most coppers will be fine with that if you're polite about it - they know they can't start questioning people when not under caution and without their free and independent legal advice, so be cool, give them what they need to know and no more, and everyone is happy. They're just doing a job under difficult circumstances with poor strategic guidance and leadership, so it's a balance between your rights and their need to do a proper job.

"I am Bernard Aloysius Farquhar, BN 06/01/1969, of 69 Cleo Lane, Poshville, and I am on a journey to collect essential supplies/going to work as I cannot reasonably work from home/taking my daily exercise in public/travelling to assist a vulnerable person/travelling to seek medical treatment" is all you need to tell them (use your own name and DoB though, not mine).

BTW, a constable in unfiorm has the power to require a driver to stop in order to check their documents, if they believe they are committing a moving traffic offence, if they believe the driver of the occupant is 'wanted' or committing an arrestable offence - there is no power to require a driver to stop to chat about coronavirus related matters, although a couple of farces are doing just that. It my be they're asking these drivers for their documents to legitimise it, and then saying "oh, and by the way, why are you....?"

PS - sorry for taking it topically of topic there.


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## steveindenmark (31 Mar 2020)

You are right Drago. As we both know. If you go in with all guns blazing it will just make the situation far worse and you will just get nowhere. I always found talking to normal people, like normal people worked and humouring everyone else, also worked.

I do have a secret desire to be pulled by some total plonker though. It would be quite amusing turning up at your own custody suite. Couldnt you just completely kick the arxe out of it because you know the system and the law.


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## Guzzi (31 Mar 2020)

I worked for 5 years as a London Motorbike Courier then a year on a pushbike, I have been pulled over by the police more than most.
I once got 3 Producers in a DAY, I knew the questions on the form by heart and used to say them along with the copper, then I learnt.

Be polite, respectful and answer their questions....you will be on your way with fewer penalties.

Obviously don't incriminate yourself.

If you want any corroboration ask a friendly Police Officer about the "Attitude Test".


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2020)

"....there are a lot of Police out...."

What planet are you living on? Here in England, on Planet Earth, you'll be lucky if you see one Police car a week.


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## ianrauk (31 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> "....there are a lot of Police out...."
> 
> What planet are you living on? Here in England, on Planet Earth, you'll be lucky if you see one Police car a week.


Agreed. Not many police about in these here parts of SE London.

And am loving getting out on my bike on the quite streets. Certainly don't feel conscious about it. Thoroughly enjoying it in fact.

And with dragos advice above I have even less worries about going out.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2020)

Sumption said that most of the police forces had acted reasonably but that Derbyshire officers had overstepped their powers: “The police have no power to enforce ministers’ preferences but only legal regulations, which don’t go anything like as far as the government’s guidance.”

I might remind everyone that the police enforce the rule of law not ministers preferences or utterances. Well worth reading this linked article.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ment-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption

The once a day exercise , oft quoted, is a ministers preference not what the new laws say.

As for round here I haven’t seen a single officer on foot and just the odd police car heading down the main roads in town to somewhere. Certainly no more than usual. No cars out in the lanes or villages as usual.


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## johnnyb47 (31 Mar 2020)

Ive been getting out on the bike once a day since the lock down. I been riding around 1 to 1/1/5 hours each time and away from built up areas as much as i can. 
It's been a life line to be able to get out and break what would otherwise be a lonely day. There's been a strong police presence on the roads and some have given me the "eye ball" but none have stopped me. 
It does feel uncomfortable sometimes, as you feel, should i be doing this when the place resembles a ghost town. I've had a few incidents of abuse from passing motorist though. Blasting horns as they overtake as well as the odd comment thrown my way such as "get back home you ***** %%***" 
As long as we cycle sensibility and follow the rules of staying solo i don't think anything will change for us cyclists. 
Just be sensible and enjoy the quiet roads while we can and ignore the abusive drivers who are probably not fully aware of our rights to cycle in these challenging times. 
I've also got my Go Pro camera fitted to my road bike at the moment just in case I do get some untoward aggro of anybody. It may help in recording such incidents. 
Overall though it's not to bad out there and it's more to the fact I'm over thinking it all in these strange times will live in at the moment 
All the very best 👍


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## vickster (31 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> "....there are a lot of Police out...."
> 
> What planet are you living on? Here in England, on Planet Earth, you'll be lucky if you see one Police car a week.


I saw at least 3 police vehicles within an hour of cycling last night


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## Guzzi (31 Mar 2020)

Guzzi said:


> I worked for 5 years as a London Motorbike Courier then a year on a pushbike, I have been pulled over by the police more than most.
> I once got 3 Producers in a DAY, I knew the questions on the form by heart and used to say them along with the copper, then I learnt.
> 
> Be polite, respectful and answer their questions....you will be on your way with fewer penalties.
> ...




I also should have said if you want further corroboration ask an unfriendly Police Officer to demonstrate Restraint Techniques, ASP Batons, Leg Restraints, Rigid Cuffs, Captor Spray, Tazers, a Heckler&Koch G36 and 6 of his mates from a TSG sitting on your head.

They will win in the end, sometimes Grasshopper it is better to bend like the willow.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> I've had a few incidents of abuse from passing motorist though. Blasting horns as they overtake as well as the odd comment thrown my way such as "get back home you ***** %%***"
> 
> Just be sensible and enjoy the quiet roads while we can and ignore the abusive drivers who are probably not fully aware of our rights to cycle in these challenging times.



I am sure if the police stopped both you and the drivers, the latter would have some explaining to do about their ”essential” journey. They are just abusive drivers, looking for someone to abuse. Got sod all to do with being ignorant about the covid-19 laws.


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## Moodyman (31 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> There is an offence of not giving you identity details to an officer who has reasonable grounds to require them, the proverbial name rank and number if you like - the officer decides what reasonable grounds are, not the person being questioned.
> 
> As for the rest of it in the current situation, give your name, DoB, address, and assure them that you're on your way to work/to collect essential supplies/taking your days single exercise period, and nothing more. They don't need to know where you work or where you're collecting your shopping from or what your essential supplies consist of, and they don't have the power to ask. *Politely all the while, or course - no point being arrissey for the sake of it*.



Never understood why folk act arsy with the police. I've been pulled up several times for minor issues - apologised for my mistake and was allowed to go on with a tut tut.

Being nice goes along way when dealing with people who have more power than you.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Mar 2020)

Local guidelines are that we can go out on foot or bicycle as much as we want as long as we stay more than two metres away from other citizens. Here we are yesterday doing our best:


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## straas (31 Mar 2020)

If you want lifeless, try travelling through rural france. You can pass through whole towns without seeing a person - this is pre coronavirus btw.


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## wafter (31 Mar 2020)

Thanks guys 

To be clear given the nature of some of the responses, my post was simply an observation about how I feel based on my experiences operating within the current constraints; no matter how legitimate (or not) we might consider them to be. It was neither an attack upon, nor endorsement of the actions of the Police or government.. just a comment on how it feels to operate within the framework they've created and appear to be actively enforcing.

For what it's worth I've seen a lot of police on the streets since this all began; maybe they're just more conspicuous in the absence of the usual traffic; but they certainly seem to be more active and this would be in keeping with the experiences of others I've spoken to in other parts of the country, as well as various stories being covered in the local and national press. 

I very much appreciate the continued ability to get out on the bike and of course am complying with the rules we've been issued; although I think it's very important for everyone to consider thier own common sense / boundaries and not just blindly do what they're told. FWIW I was minimising travel and contact before the "lockdown" was implemented, and take greater measures than prescribed when out exercising - keeping more distance from others and avoiding areas where there are likely to be a lot of people. 

End of the day our shared goal is to prevent the spread of the virus, not follow government directives to the letter (nor seeking to "bend" or exploit them in spite of any increased risks this may bring if we think we can get away with it). 

I think our continued right to cycle is legitimate since we all need exercise for our continued physical and mental wellbeing, and I think providing we're all sensible while out the risk of transmission is tiny; it just interests me how this now seems to afford us more priviledges than most other sections of society; which is the opposite to the usual experience of the cyclist IME.

Stay safe out there everyone 👍


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## johnnyb47 (31 Mar 2020)

A lot of people forget that the police are also human beings as well. 
They also have worries about their loved ones and there own personal safety at the moment. Trying to do a good job in these hard times must be really testing at the moment


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> A lot of people forget that the police are also human beings as well.
> They also have worries about their loved ones and there own personal safety at the moment. Trying to do a good job in these hard times must be really testing at the moment



Human - have you met @Drago?


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## figbat (31 Mar 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Never understood why folk act arsy with the police. I've been pulled up several times for minor issues - apologised for my mistake and was allowed to go on with a tut tut.
> 
> Being nice goes along way when dealing with people who have more power than you.


Completely agree with being polite and complicit, but my take is that in the same way that the police expect me to abide by the law, so do I expect them to. Their powers are limited, sometimes more than they believe. They can ask questions - of course - but there may be no obligation to answer. A lawful declination to answer, even politely, may sometimes be taken as insurrection.


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## Globalti (31 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I saw at least 3 police vehicles within an hour of cycling last night



Are you sure that wasn't the same car going round in circles?


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## Arjimlad (31 Mar 2020)

Well, I was out on a 10 mile before-work loop yesterday & suffered a close pass from a young woman in a Honda Civic. I thought about it then uploaded footage & action of some sort is being taken, in the usual way. I did explain that I was riding for exercise. 

We're wondering if we get out for our normal exercise of a 6 mile fast walk or 10-20 mile bike ride, can we also then accompany our daughter out on a shorter/less strenuous excursion ? 

If not, then one of us has to give up our real exercise for a more moderate/;ess physically beneficial excursion. I'm tending to think that there's nothing in the regulations to say that we can't go out more than once a day for these purposes. 

It's obviously not a big issue what with all the other things people have to worry about and we are very fortunate to live in a spacious house with a garden & easy access to some quiet-ish countryside around.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> Are you sure that wasn't the same car going round in circles?


No as wasn’t all cars


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## vickster (31 Mar 2020)

Arjimlad said:


> Well, I was out on a 10 mile before-work loop yesterday & suffered a close pass from a young woman in a Honda Civic. I thought about it then uploaded footage & action of some sort is being taken, in the usual way. I did explain that I was riding for exercise.
> 
> We're wondering if we get out for our normal exercise of a 6 mile fast walk or 10-20 mile bike ride, can we also then accompany our daughter out on a shorter/less strenuous excursion ?
> 
> ...


Each of you should only be going out once a day for exercise. Take it in turns with your daughter. The rules seem pretty clear to me

All of us are having to deal with disruption to daily life while this awful pandemic continues.


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## matticus (31 Mar 2020)

We're not as priviledged as Goats, it seems!




Rezillo said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52103967





Rezillo said:


> My favorite tweet so far:
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/katebevan/status/1244924539701735425


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Each of you should only be going out once a day for exercise. Take it in turns with your daughter. The rules seem pretty clear to me
> All of us are having to deal with disruption to daily life while this awful pandemic continues.


The advice is clear, however I think there is a modicum of sensible behaviour to be adhered to, I will admit to being guilty of 2 excursions outside the other day, I went for a ride for about an hour twenty, then when I came back a short time later I took my sons (lives with us) dog for a walk as he was at work. We live in a large village, but I never got close to anybody on either trips, I think I only saw 3 people & stayed well clear when I took the dog. However if I lived in densely populated area I may not have done this, I honestly think you're more likely to catch something whilst shopping.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2020)

Bully for you


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Bully for you


Received in the spirit it was sent


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Mar 2020)

Arjimlad said:


> We're wondering if we get out for our normal exercise of a 6 mile fast walk or 10-20 mile bike ride, can we also then accompany our daughter out on a shorter/less strenuous excursion ?



Technically, you'd be breaking the rules, but are you seriously going to take any notice of this stuff? If you don't draw attention to yourself, no-one is going to care how many times you go out

I watched a pensioner break the law yesterday. First I spotted him riding round a park on an ancient 26" MTB. I went off to do a few miles in a loop then when I came back he was in the park doing press-ups with his bike propped up against a tree. Then, to compound the felony, he positioned himself under some wooden railings and did a set of chin-ups from a semi-horizontal position. Considering the bloke must have been pushing 70, I was well impressed. Arrest that man - for too much excercising!


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## PK99 (31 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> "I'm sorry officer, you're questioning me with a view to establishing in your mind whether or not I may be committing an offence. That being the case, I would like to exercise my rights to a solicitor under PACE Code C before allowing myself to be questioned further."
> 
> The emergency laws give officers dispersal powers, powers to issue fixed penalty notices (not fines), and even to arrest for certain infringements, but they give the officers no powers to question you and do not usurp any section of PACE.



You encapsulate very well why mass testing, contact tracing and restriction of movement can work in tightly controlled Far Eastern societies like China, South Korea and Taiwan but are futile here.


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## Drago (31 Mar 2020)

I'm doing it by the book. i'm not making my own interpretation of what is right or wrong, or taking an extra ride because I think it's harmless - you or I in CC'land probably can make a safe judgement, but there are no shortage of people in the population who cannot. If we pinch a bit here and there, not only do we give the chumps of the country something to point to to justify their own idiocy, we also increase the risk of coming into contact with said chumps.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> How do you question people aggressively?
> 
> Is it asking direct questions such as "Where do you live" and "Where are you going"


Tone of voice used and body language. Also how you stopped the person can make a difference to how any questions are perceived, regardless of the wording used.


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## matticus (31 Mar 2020)

wafter said:


> I feel like thanks to our current situation we've somehow transcended from our somewhat maigned social standing to a superior, priviledged position.


This is a really interesting observation! (especially as you're in the next town from me now)

I for one am glad to also be enjoying it.

(Just a shame that the thread has diverted to repeating all the same points made in the last 48h on the other 3 main COVID threads. But that's forums for you!)


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## I like Skol (31 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> This is a really interesting observation! (especially as you're in the next town from me now)
> 
> I for one am glad to also be enjoying it.
> 
> (Just a shame that the thread has diverted to repeating all the same points made in the last 48h on the other 3 main COVID threads. But that's forums for you!)


Thread diversion maybe, but mostly valid points. As cyclists we, or people on cycles, do not have any elevated rights or privileges above or beyond those of the non-cycling population, whether perceived or inferred. Our journeys must be justified and necessary in just the same way as any other person who is out and about, regardless of means of transport!


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## matticus (31 Mar 2020)

I like Skol said:


> As cyclists we, or people on cycles, do not have any elevated rights or privileges above or beyond those of the non-cycling population, whether perceived or inferred.



But:
(web) dictionary definition: privilege a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

Bikes are available to (just about) all. So no-one has any special rights!


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## figbat (31 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I'm doing it by the book. i'm not making my own interpretation of what is right or wrong


The problem is, which “book” are you doing it by? The legislation makes no mention of number or duration of exercise events. Government advice states once a day, but this is neither law nor “rules”. Social consensus seems to be adopting the government advice and sometimes adding in things like a one hour “rule”. So it seems that personal interpretation is being applied in many cases - interpreting advice as rules, interpreting once a day as one hour a day and so on.

I’m averaging <1 per day due to work and other commitments. I haven’t yet done more than one exercise in a single day. However if I do a ride (I’m typically going 1-ish hour) in the morning and then my wife and kids decide to go for a walk in the evening (context: very rural, nobody about) I wouldn’t hesitate to go with them if I felt the need.


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## PaulSB (31 Mar 2020)

Surely people are making this a touch too complicated. The government have advised we should take one form of exercise each day.

It's clear everyone is expected to act responsibly. For walkers, for example, of which I am one, this means not pulling on boots, rucksack etc. and heading off across the moors. For cyclists, especially those who, like me, ride longer distances this means cutting back. I feel 30/35 miles, two hours or so is a reasonable response. People who generally ride for 1-2 hours can carry on as normal.

There are no rules, regulations etc. as far as I can understand, just a firm request people act sensibly and responsibly.

As for being approached by the police? Surely it's common decency to respond politely in the same manner as we expect to speak to and be spoken to by others.

It's very easy to wind up a situation with the police by responding in other ways. Is it worth it? Not to my mind.

There are no privileges or superior position or such nonsense as originally inferred. We ride bikes. That's all.


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## icowden (31 Mar 2020)

Ti be fair, I think the OP was just suggesting that because you are on a bike, unless you are being an idiot and trying to get into Richmond Park, the general assumption is that you are out for exercise. Similarly if you have a dog on a lead, no one is going to challenge why you are out.

Even pedeestrians are out in running outfits now!

That said, it's good to be sensible but also get fresh air / exercise the children etc. Risk of infection outdoors is much lower than the risk indoors or in high volume locations such as shops.


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## Soltydog (31 Mar 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> First I spotted him riding round a park on an ancient 26" MTB.


Blimey, how old was his MTB for you to be calling it ancient? I thought most of your bikes were pre 26" wheel era


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## cyberknight (31 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Surely people are making this a touch too complicated. The government have advised we should take one form of exercise each day.
> 
> It's clear everyone is expected to act responsibly. For walkers, for example, of which I am one, this means not pulling on boots, rucksack etc. and heading off across the moors. For cyclists, especially those who, like me, ride longer distances this means cutting back. I feel 30/35 miles, two hours or so is a reasonable response. People who generally ride for 1-2 hours can carry on as normal.
> 
> ...


im the same , couple of hours and 35 + is a nice sweet spot , akin to a ride to a cake stop for me but no cake so no ride back hahah !
Today was my 1st ride in over a week after a bout of lurgy so a steady 26 miles felt like hell as my calveswere in instant ache mode as soon as i left the house and very sniffly still


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## wafter (31 Mar 2020)

icowden said:


> Ti be fair, I think the OP was just suggesting that because you are on a bike, unless you are being an idiot and trying to get into Richmond Park, the general assumption is that you are out for exercise. Similarly if you have a dog on a lead, no one is going to challenge why you are out.
> 
> Even pedeestrians are out in running outfits now!
> 
> That said, it's good to be sensible but also get fresh air / exercise the children etc. Risk of infection outdoors is much lower than the risk indoors or in high volume locations such as shops.


Absolutely this. Since some seem to have an issue with the use of the word privilege, how about I summarise my viewpoint differently; as cyclists operating within the current restrictions imposed upon the country, for once we appear to have been given the least-sh*tty end of the stick relative to everyone else


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## Mrs M (31 Mar 2020)

I went for a wee 60 minute toddle last night after a very stressful day at work. 
Mostly stuck to the quiet roads as there were lots of folks out on the shared paths, jogging, dog walking,etc.
Was aware throughout my ride of a helicopter circling above.
Felt a bit “spied on” 
Then pretended I was in the TDF on a MTB 
Contemplating a wee commute to work some day soon. 
No facilities but should be ok with the 2 metre apart rule and some baby wipes


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## Randomnerd (31 Mar 2020)

20 mile utility ride to fetch groceries. Loads of feds about, mostly eating Krispy Kremes in vans. 😉 And plenty of chumps on bikes flouting physical distancing laws. Nobody kowtowed to me because I was on a bike. Usual dog walkers on the track with those extender leads and earbuds in. Very few cars around. I’m hating all of it, but sticking to the letter of the law. Hope everyone is keeping safe.


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## BurningLegs (31 Mar 2020)

32nd on the road and went for my suck bucket on the finish line but thankfully didn’t need!


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## vickster (31 Mar 2020)

BurningLegs said:


> 32nd on the road and went for my suck bucket on the finish line but thankfully didn’t need!


??


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## BurningLegs (31 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> ??


Sorry wrong thread. Was supposed to be in a Zwift thread.
Racing has clearly impaired my (already limited) mental ability!


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## matticus (31 Mar 2020)

wafter said:


> Absolutely this. Since some seem to have an issue with the use of the word *privilege*, how about I summarise my viewpoint differently;


I'm very happy with it now that you've spulled it rite!


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## DaveReading (31 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> I'm very happy with it now that you've spulled it rite!



There was I thinking the thread was about a precariously-situated toilet.


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Mar 2020)

Soltydog said:


> Blimey, how old was his MTB for you to be calling it ancient? I thought most of your bikes were pre 26" wheel era



It was a lugged steel Raleigh of some sort, but the decals had pretty much disappeared, so I can't be certain exactly what. I suspect it was probably a Maverick, which could date back to the mid 1980's. Not many MTB's were built with lugged frames, unless they were made of Reynolds tubing, and there were no stickers indicating that.
Mine are no earlier than 1989, so in comparison it would be a very early example of a British MTB.


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## anothersam (1 Apr 2020)

classic33 said:


> I've done a fair amount of cycling at night in the early hours…. Roads normally busy and there's only you on them.



Yep, just me and the milkman.






_All is calm, all is bright_

Been riding exclusively during the day for now. Seeing lots of new faces, and kids on bikes, which is normally quite rare.


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## GuyBoden (1 Apr 2020)

One positive thing about the virus is that cycling on quiet roads is excellent, so take full advantage while you can, it won't last, traffic will be back in a few short months. Enjoy it while you can............


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## classic33 (1 Apr 2020)

GuyBoden said:


> One positive thing about the virus is that cycling on quiet roads is excellent, so take full advantage while you can, it won't last, traffic will be back in a few short months. Enjoy it while you can............


We, cyclists, are traffic though.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Thread diversion maybe, but mostly valid points. As cyclists we, or people on cycles, do not have any elevated rights or privileges above or beyond those of the non-cycling population, whether perceived or inferred. Our journeys must be justified and necessary in just the same way as any other person who is out and about, regardless of means of transport!



Unfortunately there seems to be a significant segment of the population who see people who are different to them as "privileged" somehow, so seeing people on bikes even making essential journeys will bring out the worst in them.

Thankfully there is still no limit on time or distance outside here so far...


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## Maverick Goose (1 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Unfortunately there seems to be a significant segment of the population who see people who are different to them as "privileged" somehow, so seeing people on bikes even making essential journeys will bring out the worst in them.
> 
> Thankfully there is still no limit on time or distance outside here so far...


Yes-and a lot of those same people have the attitude that just because they're driving a massive great German made tank that they can drive with zero consideration for the safety of others! However here in Cumbria, there are definitely fewer drivers but more cyclists around at the moment, which is great!


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## matticus (1 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thankfully there is still no limit on time or distance outside here so far...



Ooh, that's interesting! I'm pleased for you. A quick google brought this up (so please let us know if it's wrong):

_Restrictions in place until April 20_

Unlike other European countries, Germany has so far stopped short of ordering its over 80 million population to remain at home — instead opting for strict social distancing measures which were issued on March 22.

Public gatherings of more than two people are banned, except for families and those who live together. Restaurants have been told to close unless they offer food delivery and pick-up. Hair salons and tattoo parlors have joined the list of non-essential shops that have been told to shut. Exercising alone outside is still allowed, albeit with at least a 1.5-meter distance between others.

The states of Bavaria and Saarland have, however, have put their residents on lockdown, telling them to stay at home. Schools across the country have been told to shut until the end of the Easter holiday, which ends between April 13 – April 24.

The head of Angela Merkel's Chancellery told a national newspaper on March 28 that the lockdown would extend until April 20 at least.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Ooh, that's interesting! I'm pleased for you. A quick google brought this up (so please let us know if it's wrong):
> 
> _Restrictions in place until April 20_
> 
> ...



Roughly what we're experiencing, although it's decided at a state level, and last I heard we could meet in groups up to five. Saarland is a tiny state and is working more closely with France and Luxembourg than the other German states because it shares a border with them but is fairly remote from other German population centres, so it makes sense that they are a bit different. Bavaria always does things its own way. 

People are taking this seriously for the most part: loads of people are going outside but they keep at least 2m distance.

Also we're testing anyone who as much as coughs, so we're tracking the virus carefully.


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## Maverick Goose (1 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Ooh, that's interesting! I'm pleased for you. A quick google brought this up (so please let us know if it's wrong):
> 
> _Restrictions in place until April 20_
> 
> ...


Tattoo parlours non-essential? Hey think of all those poor hipsters! How will they cope? Like, OMG,


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## carpenter (1 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> Ti be fair, I think the OP was just suggesting that because you are on a bike, unless you are being an idiot and trying to get into Richmond Park, the general assumption is that you are out for exercise. *Similarly if you have a dog on a lead, no one is going to challenge why you are out.*
> ........



my bold:

Agree 100% - even before Covid, I have felt more comfortable/justified in being out walking my dog than I would have done without her.

Strange really, but I can walk over local fields with my dog and no one really takes that much notice - bloke on his own in the same places would possibly raise suspicions?


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## Johnno260 (14 Apr 2020)

With the 2m distancing, do others move away from the curb if there are people on the pavement? I have been doing this and have gotten some serious grief from drivers for doing it, I’m talking about thin pavement with no verge.

Worst case was earlier I indicated I was moving out, the guy had a ridiculous amount of room to see what I was doing, but he had to hit the horn, shout etc then he immediately turned right making his reaction even more stupid.

Just wanted to see what others had been doing.


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## wafter (14 Apr 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> With the 2m distancing, do others move away from the curb if there are people on the pavement? I have been doing this and have gotten some serious grief from drivers for doing it, I’m talking about thin pavement with no verge.
> 
> Worst case was earlier I indicated I was moving out, the guy had a ridiculous amount of room to see what I was doing, but he had to hit the horn, shout etc then he immediately turned right making his reaction even more stupid.
> 
> Just wanted to see what others had been doing.


I move right over to the centre of the road and have found that (so far) drivers have been very accommodating of this; potentially because they have a lot more room to go around me thanks to the lack of other traffic. 

Not sure about the indicating - once I've checked that there's a good distance between me and anything behind I just float over then back again; I'm already 1/3rd into the road anyway so they're going to have to cross the centreline of the road to get past me anyway. If the cars are close I tend to just hold my breath as I go past the peds..


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## C R (14 Apr 2020)

wafter said:


> I move right over to the centre of the road and have found that (so far) drivers have been very accommodating of this; potentially because they have a lot more room to go around me thanks to the lack of other traffic.
> 
> Not sure about the indicating - once I've checked that there's a good distance between me and anything behind I just float over then back again; I'm already 1/3rd into the road anyway so they're going to have to cross the centreline of the road to get past me anyway. If the cars are close I tend to just hold my breath as I go past the peds..


Same here, and most other cyclists I have seen do the same. Not had any grief from cars either.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Apr 2020)

Yep I moved right out to centre line

Like this


View: https://youtu.be/dcKAYWgfRbg


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## Milzy (14 Apr 2020)

wafter said:


> Just discussing my my GF how bizarre and to a variable extent concerning the experience of going outside one's house currently is.
> 
> While I'm no huge fan of people generally and very much appreciate the practical benefits of there being fewer of them in terms of road safety etc, the urban landscape feels alien; it seeming almost oppressive to ride through areas that at every other time you've experienced them have shown far greater signs of life.
> 
> ...


Yes agreed, I've been thinking about this for a while. Anybody with a working body could experience the same benefits. Most are just drinking and moaning though. A motorcycle friend did 10 miles on MTB and said I don't know what you lot get out of it. I suppose it's not for everyone.


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## Johnno260 (14 Apr 2020)

wafter said:


> I move right over to the centre of the road and have found that (so far) drivers have been very accommodating of this; potentially because they have a lot more room to go around me thanks to the lack of other traffic.
> 
> Not sure about the indicating - once I've checked that there's a good distance between me and anything behind I just float over then back again; I'm already 1/3rd into the road anyway so they're going to have to cross the centreline of the road to get past me anyway. If the cars are close I tend to just hold my breath as I go past the peds..


When I say indicate I just put my hand out a little for 1s, if no traffic like you said I just float over, I have had many peds say thanks.

I have had 2 instances of drivers getting angry, the first was a boy racer who actually got out their car to have a shouting match, todays one was probably just a total ignoramus.

I haven't just darted across and messed up a cars overtake, I have a Garmin Radar so I know when a cars behind me, and I still shoulder check.



C R said:


> Same here, and most other cyclists I have seen do the same. Not had any grief from cars either.





T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yep I moved right out to centre line
> 
> Like this
> 
> ...




Thanks both as well, I will continue with what I'm doing, I think it's just a few cases of being unlucky with a few idiots.


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## Milzy (14 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> To be fair, your average copper in the UK is liable to be sensible and sympathetic to any situation. As with the society from which they are recruited, there will be chumps and no point winding them up if you meet one.
> 
> If I get stopped while out and about in the current emergency I'll happily tell them who I am, and the reason for my excursion under the current guidelines in the broadest of terms, but they're not entitled to more than that and I won't be giving them more than that. Most coppers will be fine with that if you're polite about it - they know they can't start questioning people when not under caution and without their free and independent legal advice, so be cool, give them what they need to know and no more, and everyone is happy. They're just doing a job under difficult circumstances with poor strategic guidance and leadership, so it's a balance between your rights and their need to do a proper job.
> 
> ...





SkipdiverJohn said:


> Technically, you'd be breaking the rules, but are you seriously going to take any notice of this stuff? If you don't draw attention to yourself, no-one is going to care how many times you go out
> 
> I watched a pensioner break the law yesterday. First I spotted him riding round a park on an ancient 26" MTB. I went off to do a few miles in a loop then when I came back he was in the park doing press-ups with his bike propped up against a tree. Then, to compound the felony, he positioned himself under some wooden railings and did a set of chin-ups from a semi-horizontal position. Considering the bloke must have been pushing 70, I was well impressed. Arrest that man - for too much excercising!


Possible ex Royal marine there.


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## PK99 (14 Apr 2020)

Johnno260 said:


> With the 2m distancing, do others move away from the curb if there are people on the pavement? I have been doing this and have gotten some serious grief from drivers for doing it, I’m talking about thin pavement with no verge.
> 
> Worst case was earlier I indicated I was moving out, the guy had a ridiculous amount of room to see what I was doing, but he had to hit the horn, shout etc then he immediately turned right making his reaction even more stupid.
> 
> Just wanted to see what others had been doing.



If you don't give me 2m on the pavement , you might find you ride in to my horizontal walking stick


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Possible ex Royal marine there.



The thought did occur to me that he might have served in one of the uniformed services or been an ex-boxer etc. He didn't move around slowly like a typical old person, if you know what I mean. Quite quick and purposeful on his feet, like someone a fair bit younger in age who is active in their day to day life.


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## Johnno260 (15 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> If you don't give me 2m on the pavement , you might find you ride in to my horizontal walking stick


If I give you 2m and the car behind me is giving me grief for it, please feel free to launch your walking stick at the car please!


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## matticus (15 Apr 2020)

Some very vocal cars in your areas folks!


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## Andy in Germany (15 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yep I moved right out to centre line
> 
> Like this
> 
> ...




I spent most of thet video trying to work out which side of the road you should be on...


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## I like Skol (15 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yep I moved right out to centre line
> 
> Like this
> 
> ...



Just watched that vid and it is hardly a fair representation of the situation. All well and good if you live in a quiet rural area as depicted, but try weaving about all over the road like that in an urban environ and you are likely to be needing NHS assistance quite soon!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Just watched that vid and it is hardly a fair representation of the situation. All well and good if you live in a quiet rural area as depicted, but try weaving about all over the road like that in an urban environ and you are likely to be needing NHS assistance quite soon!


Weaving, hmmmmm


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I spent most of thet video trying to work out which side of the road you should be on...


Did you spot the pedestrian walking with traffic, not against 😛


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## sheddy (15 Apr 2020)

I’d like to be able to combine food shopping with going for a long local walk.

Ideally (to avoid meat/dairy spoiling in hot car) we would drive - park - 5 mile walk - drive - shop.

I just worry about being stopped walking back to car with no shopping in the boot.


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## Ashimoto (17 Apr 2020)

Im out every day. Im doing it as part off a weight loss programme. Ive seen loads of police and Ive yet to see one stop anybody . Ive seen loads of fellow cyclists ride past the police with no problems whatsoever. Maybe its just the police in my area but I dont feel any different when I go out now. I just get on the bike and ride.


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Apr 2020)

Went out early this morning on hack Pioneer and rode about 7 miles, then did some food & beer shopping on foot, so about 2 1/2 miles walking. Rain stopped play this afternoon, but it had cleared by the evening, so out again for 8 more miles just before it got dark. Haven't seen any police at all..


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## Kevfm (18 Apr 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52312560

Driving to walk is OK, just don't take the pi55.


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## DaveReading (18 Apr 2020)

Source document from the NPCC:


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