# Camelbak



## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

Which is the largest camelbak (or generic equivalent) that you can buy?

Something suitable for someone who can't pack light to use wild camping.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Aug 2009)

RedBike said:


> Which is the largest camelbak (or generic equivalent) that you can buy?
> 
> Something suitable for someone who can't pack light to use wild camping.



I can only speak of camelbak's rather than the competition having looked at dozens of the things last month. Do you mean biggest in terms of luggage capacity rather than bladder? If so you probably want one to consider of the non-cycling ones like a vantage 40 or an Alpine Explorer. The big bladdered cycling ones, like the H.O.S.S. (3L water + 23L) and the H.A.W.G. (3L + 18L) maybe don't have enough capacity for your intended use.

I have to say my HOSS is amazing, I can wear it all day on road or off and not notice it is there and the DVIS back panel doesn't seem to induce clammy back.


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

I mean luggage capacity, sorry. 

There appears to be some great suggestions there, thank you GrumyGreg. 
It looks like I need either the Vantage/Alpline Explorer and water bottles (not a problem) or a Camelbak Hoss. - I think even the Hoss might be a bit too small! 

Up to now, the lagest I had seen was this..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Hydrapak-...s_RL?hash=item45ed10b77b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Aug 2009)

darned good price for the el wotsit though! wisdh camelbaks carried big discounts.

You could just get a decent day sack /small rucksack and stick a platypus or other bladder in it. Fwiw I find the 'smaller than ideal route' forces me to leave stuff behind and pack light. Even so last Saturday I carried three multitools 100km which is totally over the top and a little dull.


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## addictfreak (4 Aug 2009)

I use one of these it has a 3 litre bladder and room to pack a few things for that longer trip. Used mine for a three day coast to coast and got everything i needed in it.
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id37434.html

I also have a smaller one which is basically just the bladder, for day rides


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## numbnuts (4 Aug 2009)

my blowfish takes a 3L bladder and as the name states it expands to a large bag
blowfish


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## Jonathan M (4 Aug 2009)

Buy whatever rucsac you want and then use a Camelback Unbottle which can hold up to 3 litres.


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

Jonathan M said:


> Buy whatever rucsac you want and then use a Camelback Unbottle which can hold up to 3 litres.



I've found out the hard way that its not quite that simple. 

Most larger 'treking' rucksacks are too long. Your helmet catches on the top going downhill and the bottom overhangs the back of the saddle.


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

addictfreak said:


> I use one of these it has a 3 litre bladder and room to pack a few things for that longer trip. Used mine for a three day coast to coast and got everything i needed in it.
> http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id37434.html
> 
> I also have a smaller one which is basically just the bladder, for day rides



I will also be using mine for 3/4 day rides. I need to get a tent, sleeping bag, map, stove and clothes in there! -


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## addictfreak (4 Aug 2009)

Its not big enough for that!

I was only carrying clothing/food etc. Used B&B on a night time


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

addictfreak said:


> Its not big enough for that!
> 
> I was only carrying clothing/food etc. Used B&B on a night time



The way I seem to pack I don't think ANY of them are big enough. 

I can foresee a seatpost mounted pannier rack taking the big stuff like the sleeping bag. I'd rather I didn't use panniers though. They don't half get in the way while MTBing.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Aug 2009)

can you lash stuff to your top tube? 20 years ago I used to carry my tent that way and sleeping mat went in a bottle cage below the downtube (where it got covered in crap until I discovered polythene)


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## gaz (4 Aug 2009)

my cammelbak HOSS has 3L water capacity and 23L luggage capacity, most of that is little nooks and crannies for small things, but i can carry all my wet gear, work clothes, 3l of water, locks and equipment such as pump and spare inner tubes easily on my way to work. has a fantastic strapping system so i barely feel the weight on my back as i cycle, and a great aero panel to stop my back from being sweaty when i stop.

But it costs over £100.


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> can you lash stuff to your top tube? 20 years ago I used to carry my tent that way and sleeping mat went in a bottle cage below the downtube (where it got covered in crap until I discovered polythene)



I don't have too much trouble finding a place in my bag for the camping mat, even the tent isn't too bad. It's the sleeping bag thats the trouble. 

I have three choices... 
A massive bag that I can fit everything inside. (heavy on my back)
Strap the sleeping bag to my handlebars (out of the way but it disrupts the handling of the bike). 
Buy a pannier rack that mounts to the seat post and fasten the sleeping bag to that. (extra weight and in the way a bit on steep sections).


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

gaz said:


> my cammelbak HOSS has 3L water capacity and 23L luggage capacity, most of that is little nooks and crannies for small things, but i can carry all my wet gear, work clothes, 3l of water, locks and equipment such as pump and spare inner tubes easily on my way to work. has a fantastic strapping system so i barely feel the weight on my back as i cycle, and a great aero panel to stop my back from being sweaty when i stop.
> 
> But it costs over £100.




At the moment the Camelbak Hoss is my prefered solution; but it's just a bit too much money. 

I think i'm going to keep my eyes open for a cheap second-hand camelbak on ebay (rather unlikely).

My next choice is to buy this and a cheap seatpost mounted rack for some of the bulky but light items. (sleeping bag, fleese coat etc) 
http://www.planetfear.com/item/Brand_lowe-alpine-rush-25_0_0_23573_1.html


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## ColinJ (4 Aug 2009)

I have a 2L Camelbak bladder you could have if that would be any use to you RB? 

I use the Camelbak bag when out riding but have decided that I prefer drinking from bottles so the bladder doesn't get any use. Yours for a piece of chocolate cake if you want it - I'll have the cake when we finally end up on a ride together!


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2009)

Thanks for the offer ColinJ, I have a few bladders (cheap ones from Decathlon). It's just finding space for everything / trying to keep the weight down. 

I don't mind using bottles. I'm still a roadie at heart I think. I like being able to see just how much water i've got left and have two bottles on the go at once. 

In one bottle I put energy drink and the other just plain water. The waters vital forr cooking / making cups of tea along the way and the energy drink keeps me going.


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## Bigtwin (4 Aug 2009)

Trust me, I've already made the mistake for you, touring the south coast for a week when I was a poor student.

If you put that lot in a rucksack you will pummel your arsehoop to a merry hell and back.

Do yourself a favour and get a rack to put the heavy stuff on.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Trust me, I've already made the mistake for you, touring the south coast for a week when I was a poor student.
> 
> If you put that lot in a rucksack you will pummel your arsehoop to a merry hell and back.
> 
> Do yourself a favour and get a rack to put the heavy stuff on.



Hehe, I did a short trip two weeks ago with just a rucksack
http://redbikes.blogspot.com/2009/07/pennine-way-double-trouble.html

My bag was so heavy it got nick-named burden. The lack of a waist/chest strap (can't think of the name for them) and worn out shoulder straps meant the bag was soon cutting into me. Two weeks on and the bruises/ friction burns still haven't healled. 

I've tried the pannier (and even the trailer) route as well and i've decided the best route for off-roading as my frame isn't really suitable for panniers is to pack as light as possible, use a good quality rucksack (ie this post), and take a bit of weight off my back by using a frame/seat post bag(s) for a few heavier but small items like the camping stove / tent.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

Right, the bags been ordered. 
I've gone for this..
http://www.planetfear.com/item/Brand_lowe-alpine-rush-25_0_0_23573_1.html

Half the weight of the camelbak, but with the same cargo size. Hopefully it's small enough not to get in the way of my helmet/saddle yet large enough to take most of my stuff. The only real downside is it isn't specifically designed for a bladder. Although I can't see bottles on the bike being a major problem (and not having a bladder will keep the bag a lot lighter!). 

Now I need a BIG frame bag, bar bag and seatpost bag?
Any suggestions? - There's no way i'm going to fit everything in that bag!


The camelbak Hoss looked ideal; bit of a shame about the price!


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Aug 2009)

RedBike said:


> Right, the bags been ordered.
> I've gone for this..
> http://www.planetfear.com/item/Brand_lowe-alpine-rush-25_0_0_23573_1.html
> 
> ...



I'd beg to differ.... I'd argue the bladder is not in the best place for cycling; vulnerable to off's and a little far back from your body mass so will act like a pendulum but it can be done as they show. I think that is a platypus or similar.

bottles:- I always lose them on fast bumpy technical descents and they literally get covered in shite off road.

could you hang the sleepingbag/bedroll from the bars btw?

The HOSS is a pricey bit of kit, but I'd say it is ok vfm wise, very well thought out, good detailing, well made etc., etc.


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## Bigtwin (5 Aug 2009)

Carry the water on the frame. 2 x 1.5 litre bottles is about 7lbs off your back. Just get/make a pair of velcro straps to secure them in the cage. Carrying water on your back's a mugs game!

Why are you not using a rear rack - full suspension?

If it's not that, but lack of mounts, I did a Borders to London tour with a MTB rack fixed on with hoseclips (used old tube to protect the frame). Worked perfectly entirely without a problem for the whole journey. Cheap too!


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

My MTB frame has no mounting points what so ever for a pannier rack and the un-usual rear seat stay(s) and the disc brake make mounting a rack really difficult. I have managed to mount a rack using a combination of p-clips, zip ties and toured like that; but I decided that I prefered not to have all the weight on the bike. 

I found carrying the bike an absolute nightmare with a heavy pannier rack. I also found that loading the MTB up with the weight up high caused some rather major handeling problems over rough terrain. 

So far my prefered solution has been the rucksack. Even though I found carrying a large load very uncomfortable after a while / few days. 

My plan at the moment is to try the rucksack approach again but this time with a better fitting rucksack and fastening some of the larger (but reasonably light) items like the sleeping bag, fleese coat to the bike. 

Which leaves me with a camping mat, stove, tent and clothes in my rucksack. Which hopefully that 25L bag should be just about big enough for.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

> I'd beg to differ.... I'd argue the bladder is not in the best place for cycling; vulnerable to off's and a little far back from your body mass so will act like a pendulum but it can be done as they show. I think that is a platypus or similar.
> 
> bottles:- I always lose them on fast bumpy technical descents and they literally get covered in shite off road.



I use a velcro strap(s) that came with an old set of lights to fasten the bottles in. 

I tend to just drink out of a small bottle mounted on the rucksacks straps, which normally stays reasonably clean. I then keep topping this small bottle up from the larger very mucky bottles velcro-ed to the frame.

When you remove the lid of the bottle thats got covered in crap (literally) the rim of the bottle, which has been under the top, is clean. So you can cleanly pour the water out of this bottle and avoid drinking cow muck flavoured water.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> Carrying water on your back's a mugs game!


step away from the darkside...

...hell of a lot of mugs out on the trails where I ride then as the only people I see with bottles in cages are on cross bikes/rough stuff tourers or lost roadies out playing at MTB'ing


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## Bigtwin (5 Aug 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> step away from the darkside...
> 
> ...hell of a lot of mugs out on the trails where I ride then as the only people I see with bottles in cages are on cross bikes/rough stuff tourers or lost roadies out playing at MTB'ing



I think you are missing the point rather completely here. But if you want to carry that extra 7lbs plus in a bag on your back with all the other stuff for no reason day in day out, be my guest.

As they say, any idiot can be uncomfortable.


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## 02GF74 (5 Aug 2009)

RedBike said:


> Which leaves me with a camping mat, stove, tent and clothes in my rucksack. Which hopefully that 25L bag should be just about big enough for.



All these items are available in many forms but for lightness and smaller size, you are gonna have to unchain the wallet, there is no other way.

How light and how compact will be compromise on how much you want to spend.

Camping mat - for compactness you would be looking at self-inflating mattresses - there are quite a few brands of these so £ 30 should see you good there.

Bag - you cannot beat down bags for warmth to weight/size ratio - downside is they are no good if wet. You do not state how many season bag you are looking for so the prices can vary from £ 30 for thin summer one to £ 200 for UK winter. I have one at each end and both will compact to size of loaf of bread or smaller. The winter one is Marmot and was £££.

Stove - I believe the petrol ones are lighter than gas ones but are more £££.

Tents - if you are looking at one man tent, Argos ProAction one man tent kicks ass. I have one and it is light and effective.

here, half price at £ 25

*If that is current (link found via google), don't waste a minute but get oof your fat butt and buy it.*


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## PpPete (5 Aug 2009)

02GF74 said:


> How light and how compact will be compromise on how much you want to spend.
> ....
> 
> Tents - if you are looking at one man tent, Argos ProAction one man tent kicks ass. I have one and it is light and effective.
> ...



I've just got one of those too. GREAT VALUE. But just to emphasise the first statement....

How about one of these? about one-third the weight of the Argos one and "only" ten times the price.


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## 02GF74 (5 Aug 2009)

just weighed mine - 1980 g - all in, it is older model, probably 4 yr old.

the weight could be reduced by not using the stow bags.

and using Ti pegs.


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## Jonathan M (5 Aug 2009)

Dump the tent, buy a bivvy bag.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

I have most of the camping equpment sorted now. It's just the 'bags' to put it all in that i'm short off. 

My sleeping bag is rather on the large size but reasonably light. 
http://www.family-camping-supplies.co.uk/item.php?cat=68&i=130
I'm going to have to spend a lot to get anything warmer and smaller. 


I have a reaonably light Gelert Solo tent
http://www.outdoormegastore.co.uk/acatalog/Gelert_Solo_Backpacking_Tent.html
Again, I would have to spend a lot more to get anything lighter. 

A blacks ultralight 3/4 length mat.
The lightest sub £100 self inflating mat I could find. 

A Ravi bivvy bag that i'm more likely to use to add a season or two to my sleeping bag than on it's own - Maybe if it's ever summer / i'm not on my own on a wet moor/ creapy forest I will use it without the tent!


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

Just short of the bags. 

A few more items of warm clothing and a light-weight stove.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Aug 2009)

Bigtwin said:


> I think you are missing the point rather completely here. But if you want to carry that extra 7lbs plus in a bag on your back with all the other stuff for no reason day in day out, be my guest.
> 
> As they say, any idiot can be uncomfortable.



Complete and utter tripe.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

> Complete and utter tripe.


I completely agree with you about using a camelbak for MTBing in general. 

However loosing 3kg (the weight of a full bladder) is very appealling. I've no intentions of drinking out of bottle covered in cow muck. 
I will probably be using either a small bladder or bottle mounted in the rucksack and topping it up regularly from sealed bottles firmly fastened to the frame.


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## RedBike (5 Aug 2009)

i originally asked for a camelbak thinking I could get one big enough to take everything. 

It wasn't until I started totalling up weight / storage space and looking at the costs involved that I realised it wasn't that practical to carry everything i've got in a camelbak. 

If the Hawg / Hoss wiere about half price then I would jump at them. I would put the water on my back and find something else to put on the frame and lighten the bag that way.


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## Jonathan M (6 Aug 2009)

Sleeping bag wise Tesco do a down bag for sub £30, quite light, comes with a compression bag, gets some good feeback from the pennie watchers on LFTO website.


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## lukesdad (13 Aug 2009)

I use a vango backpac love it.


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