# Chainsuck, and how to counter it, suggestions please



## GrumpyGregry (28 Oct 2012)

Sram X0 rear mech X9 front, truative triple up front, 10 speeds on the back, wippermann chain with less than 50 hours on it, no chain device of any kind, very muddy and wet today.

put pressure on the transmission, graunch and it locks, bottom run of chain is picking up coming past the chainstay and wrapping up and over the chain ring. Back pedal a tadge, go again fine for a bit then graunch. Happened about 12 times over three hours.

haven't had it happen before on this bike, hardtail, some way removed from a BSO though it is from Halfords.

Causes and solutions please.


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## the_mikey (28 Oct 2012)

Ensure the chain is clean and lubricated, and the front chainrings are not worn, otherwise try a different brand of chain.


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## Cubist (28 Oct 2012)

Which ring up front? My granny ring was worn a lot more than I expected, and picked up the chain like a good'un. Check also for stiff links in the chain, new or not, especially if you've been out in gritty mud. What lube on the chain?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> Which ring up front? My granny ring was worn a lot more than I expected, and picked up the chain like a good'un. Check also for stiff links in the chain, new or not, especially if you've been out in gritty mud. What lube on the chain?


was doing it on granny and middle, will check for stiff links but in the sandstone/clay/water paste we were riding on grit comes and goes. lube is green oil.


the_mikey said:


> Ensure the chain is clean and lubricated, and the front chainrings are not worn, otherwise try a different brand of chain.


well it was when I started, but after 30 minutes, not so much.


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## mrandmrspoves (29 Oct 2012)

Also check the chain is routed through the rear derailleur correctly.......I consider myself quite competent mechanically - but still managed to route a new chain incorrectly through an XT derailleur.....and it's not obviously wrong.


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## VamP (29 Oct 2012)

I would use dry lube in those kind of conditions, wet lube has a way of gluing grit to the chain. Not saying that's the cause of your chainssuck though...


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Oct 2012)

What brand of rings are flavour of the month replacement wise? Is the received wisdom stil that hardened steel is the way to go in middle and granny on the grounds of better wear resistance even if a few grammes heavier?


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> I would use dry lube in those kind of conditions, wet lube has a way of gluing grit to the chain. Not saying that's the cause of your chainssuck though...


 
I must confess that dry lube and me don't get on.


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## Boris Bajic (29 Oct 2012)

My current (and for the past few years) MTB is a Pace hardtail. A thing of joy, but it sucks the chain like the very Devil.

I know no cure. 

I put one of those velcro-attached gaitors round the chainstay on the drive side, which keeps the clanging down and stiops the chain slowly destroying the frame...

I think the _'keep it clean and lubed'_ advice is good, but the very point of MTBs is that they don't stay very clean for more than twenty metres.

There are gear combos it happens less in - and I find I ride quite a lot in those....

Sorry, no help... But you're not the only one and it is something you learn to live with.


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Oct 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Sorry, no help... But you're not the only one and it is something you learn to live with.


 
Ain't gonna happen. Fixed the symptoms back in the day on my old Rockhopper with an anti chainsuck device before a chainset swap cured it completely.

One of the comedy gems of advice on the web is if your mtb chainsucks in certain trail conditions avoid riding it in those conditions. Which equates to advising you should avoid riding your mtb in the UK.


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## Cubist (29 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> What brand of rings are flavour of the month replacement wise? Is the received wisdom stil that hardened steel is the way to go in middle and granny on the grounds of better wear resistance even if a few grammes heavier?


I would. I have a steel granny and a deore 36t on my SLX. Alloy is all very good, but the millstone grit we ride on round here is extremely unforgiving. I know it ain't granite but that's exactly why I use dry wax lube. 

For the sake of a fiver try a bit of dry wax. If you really don't like it then you can sell it to me(!) but that green stuff is Satan's jizm IMHO


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> I would. I have a steel granny and a deore 36t on my SLX. Alloy is all very good, but the millstone grit we ride on round here is extremely unforgiving. I know it ain't granite but that's exactly why I use dry wax lube.
> 
> For the sake of a fiver try a bit of *dry wax*. If you really don't like it then you can sell it to me(!) but that green stuff is Satan's jizm IMHO


Whose?


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## Cubist (29 Oct 2012)

I like Finish line. There was some in Bikehut the other day, but I can't remember who made it. May even have been Muc-Off. Bikehut do their own.


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## VamP (30 Oct 2012)

Finish line here also.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> I like Finish line.





VamP said:


> Finish line here also.


 

Word. I'm told in another place that appaz my wippermann chain fetish ain't helping either. It's the crinkly side plates wot dun it guv.

Quick look at the rings in daylight this morning made me wince.

So on my pay day shopping list is

New 9 speed chain (any recommendations lovely peeps?)
Deore 32T middle ring in steel
Inner 22T ring in steel.
Some Finish Line Dry chain lube.

Do I go ghetto and make a chainstay protector out of an old inner tube or buy one?


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## Cubist (30 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Word. I'm told in another place that appaz my wippermann chain fetish ain't helping either. It's the crinkly side plates wot dun it guv.
> 
> Quick look at the rings in daylight this morning made me wince.
> 
> ...


 
I like SRAM, PC971 comes with a reusable power link and are, just, well, my chain of choice. RRP getting on for £30 but eBay is your friend. PC971 is a sort of SLX equivalent, 951=Deore, 991=XT as a rough guide. 

This is a bargain
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sram-PC-9...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item23245f699c


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2012)

managed to get Truativ steel middle and inner for the same sorts of prices as those from Shimano, thus keeping the Boardman a Shimano-free zone.

PC971 it is then. I've yet to be convinced higher end chains offer any cost effective advantage three seasons of the year.


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## Cubist (30 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> managed to get Truativ steel middle and inner for the same sorts of prices as those from Shimano, thus keeping the Boardman a Shimano-free zone.
> 
> PC971 it is then. I've yet to be convinced higher end chains offer any cost effective advantage three seasons of the year.


No weight advantage from chains, they nearly all weigh the same, and the only real difference in the various SRAM ones is the colour of the plates and links, from matt grey and grey, to sparkly nickel effect.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> No weight advantage from chains, they nearly all weigh the same, and the only real difference in the various SRAM ones is the colour of the plates and links, from matt grey and grey, to sparkly nickel effect.


I want a gold coloured one. Failing that, black.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Nov 2012)

CRC were £3 more for the PC971 and had a PG990 11 - 32 on a tarty gold carrier for £40 so I've decided to bite the bullet and renew the whole transmission.

Now I need to stop thinking about going 2 x 9 on the HT.


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## Cubist (1 Nov 2012)

Forty quid? That's seriously cheap. 

2x9? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Nov 2012)

What ratio's are you running?

On the one hand, for the next few months the chain won't touch the big ring. On the other why not just leave it there? I'm not afraid of it hitting me in an off, it rarely hits anything, and the chain's only very rarely unshipped.

Here they are in all their cheap glory http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=40173


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## Cubist (1 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> What ratio's are you running?
> 
> On the one hand, for the next few months the chain won't touch the big ring. On the other why not just leave it there? I'm not afraid of it hitting me in an off, it rarely hits anything, and the chain's only very rarely unshipped.
> 
> Here they are in all their cheap glory http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=40173


36/22 and an 11-32 at the back.

Next time anything wears out I'm going to put a 24 on the front and an 11-34, just to see what it does.

I was persuaded by the argument that points out that I'm missing out on about 1.5 top gears: 44/11, = 122", 44/13= 103.2", 44/15= 89.5", whereas 36/11=99.8" 36/13=84.5".
And I don't need to worry about bent or broken teeth or a bitten leg. 

I'm tempted to get one of those in case they sell out and put the price up!


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> 36/22 and an 11-32 at the back.
> 
> Next time anything wears out I'm going to put a 24 on the front and an 11-34, just to see what it does.
> 
> I'm tempted to get one of those in case they sell out and put the price up.


toying with the very same idea(s)


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## Cubist (1 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> toying with the very same idea(s)


See my edit for gear calculations


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> See my edit for gear calculations


useful ta. can't remember the last time I needed to use 44/11. Probs when I last used HT to commute and found the snow had thawed on the way home.

Did you adopt a 2xn front shifter? I'll leave my X0 3x9 gripshift left hand as is. Thumb can't cope with SRAM trigger on that hand. My rebellious streak enjoys the asymmetry my OCD hates.


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## Cubist (1 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> useful ta. can't remember the last time I needed to use 44/11. Probs when I last used HT to commute and found the snow had thawed on the way home.
> 
> Did you adopt a 2xn front shifter? I'll leave my X0 3x9 gripshift left hand as is. Thumb can't cope with SRAM trigger on that hand. My rebellious streak enjoys the asymmetry my OCD hates.


No, left the shifter as it was. The double front mech is a must for a tart like me though, the cage diameter follows the edge of the bashguard so well.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Nov 2012)

took the transmission off y'day, and then thought, what the heck, what's the worse that can happen?

chain reaction visited. plastic flexed. 2 x 9 it shall be,


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## Cubist (4 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> took the transmission off y'day, and then thought, what the heck, what's the worse that can happen?
> 
> chain reaction visited. plastic flexed. 2 x 9 it shall be,


 
Good man! What have you got as a bashguard?

Keep us updated.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> Good man! What have you got as a bashguard?
> 
> Keep us updated.


Ordered a Hope bash and a Stinger.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2012)

So according to Sheldon in stock form 22/32/44 with 11 - 32 cassette, with my mud tyres on, the HT Pro has a gear range of 18"- 103" Changing to 2 x 9 22/32 makes that 18" - 75" which only shaves off the the top three gears. I've used these for only a few minutes in the life of the bike!

Going 26/36 gives a range of 21" - 84" and 24/36 will give me 19" - 84"


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> *36/22* and an 11-32 at the back!


shift quality ok? ok with triple mech? ok with double mech?


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## Cubist (5 Nov 2012)

I bit the bullet and found a new /other double front mech on ebay which is designed to shift 36/22 . I can't see why a triple wouldn't shift perfectly happily, as long as you used the granny to middle indexing on the shifter and set the limit screw to stop overshifting. However, if this is for the nerve don't you have direct mount front? In which case you need to get a mech to suit. You can't adjust the height by more than 5mm or so. Depending on whether you get XT or new SLX may also dictate the acceptable front chainring.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> I bit the bullet and found a new /other double front mech on ebay which is designed to shift 36/22 . I can't see why a triple wouldn't shift perfectly happily, as long as you used the granny to middle indexing on the shifter and set the limit screw to stop overshifting. However, if this is for the nerve don't you have direct mount front? In which case you need to get a mech to suit. You can't adjust the height by more than 5mm or so. Depending on whether you get XT or new SLX may also dictate the acceptable front chainring.


Nerve stays as is. Boardman becoming the winter bike.... so yer, plan is to use 1 and 2 positions on X0 gripshift and screw the mech down so it can't get into big ring space, except for trimming.

I've got my eye on a couple of X0 2xN front mech's on fleabay. I guess in theory the rear mech could go medium cage too? But that is quite spendy.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Nov 2012)

The saga continues here


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## airbrake (14 Nov 2012)

I've noticed a few things causing / contributing to chain suck.

Burred teeth on the chainrings - load on the teeth causes the material to spread out sideways which hooks the chain (you can remove these burrs with good needle files or small sharpening stones). 

A sticky derailleur - gummed up or damaged rear mechs can't maintain good chain tension which helps to prevent the chain riding up the 'ring. Likewise, a derailleur with weak spring(s) doesn't help. If you've accidentally got the chain a little on the long side when fitting a new one, your chain tension is reduced also.

Gritty, dirty chain (stay clear of wet lubes unless you are on the road - and even then use sparingly).


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## 02GF74 (15 Nov 2012)

airbrake said:


> I've noticed a few things causing / contributing to chain suck.
> 
> A sticky derailleur - gummed up or damaged rear mechs can't maintain good chain tension which helps to prevent the chain riding up the 'ring. Likewise, a derailleur with weak spring(s) doesn't help. If you've accidentally got the chain a little on the long side when fitting a new one, your chain tension is reduced also.


 
interesting .... as someone who had bad case of chainsuck on Friday, this is making me wonder bout my set up. I change from 2x10 11-36 to 2x9 11-34 and fitted medium case mech at same time - I am wondering of the mech is not putting enough tension on the chain (I did not shorten the chain)


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Nov 2012)

02GF74 said:


> interesting .... as someone who had bad case of chainsuck on Friday, this is making me wonder bout my set up. * I change from 2x10 11-36 to 2x9 11-34* and fitted medium case mech at same time - I am wondering of the mech is not putting enough tension on the chain (I did not shorten the chain)


Regressive. You'll die for sure.


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## 02GF74 (15 Nov 2012)

maybe but I'll die richer - 10 spd stuff is more expensive than 9 sp. I was happy with 8 speed cassettes, more than enough gears for me.


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## 3narf (15 Nov 2012)

It's funny, you don't hear much about chainsuck these days. I assumed it was a '90s thing that went away.

I've never experienced it, personally. Are some bikes just more prone to it than others? Has anybody ever studied it scientifically to determine its cause? Does it tend to manifest itself with new components or worn?


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## Drago (16 Nov 2012)

Check the chain is the correct length - too long and the mech won't keep sufficient tension on the lower run of chain.

SRAM have just released some very expensive front rings that eliminate this problem. Word us theyre awesome, but as they're intended for use the new 11 speed set up also cery expensive. Cheaper X0 and X9 versions are supposed to be on their way.


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## lukesdad (17 Nov 2012)

my solution to the problem and many others 36 front ring guides made from older larger rings modelled on Lukes bike behind, Greg you use a fixed on the road time you saw the light off road


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Nov 2012)

just putting the finishing touches to a 2x9 conversion this morning.


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