# Bullying a female cyclist



## johnnyb47 (27 Feb 2019)

Hi all and hope you're well.
With the amazing weather of late there's been loads of cycling going on with me. I've also seen many other cyclists too taking advantage of the balmy weather. Last night though ,one of my usual quiet 20 miles around the lanes took an unexpected turn for the worst.
It started off uneventful and in the far distance along a dark secluded lane i spotted a flashing light of another cyclist. Before i knew it i was virtually behind the cyclist and noticed that it was stationary with a car stopped in front of it I could hear raised voices and realised there was some sort of altercation going on. When i got close up, it turned out there was around 3 guys from the car and they where giving the young lady cyclist some real nasty abuse. Baring in mind, we were in the middle of nowhere and it was pitch black i decided to stop and intervene. After giving these guys a few harsh looks and preparing to tell them to do one they just got in the car and sped off leaving this poor young lady shaking like a leaf with fear. She was really scared witless of what had happened. Apparently these bully's close past her about two miles back and when she protested about it, they stopped and antagonised her for 2 miles along the road. With no houses or rat runs in sight to escape she had no choice but to just simply keep on cycling hoping they would lose interest and go on there way. She told me she genuinely feared something was going to horribly happen to her. I stayed with her for 20 minutes and reassured her she was now safe and waited until her partner came and picked her up.
Sadly with it all happening so quickly for me, i didn't think to the cars registration and as she was so stressed out over the situation she didn't get it either.
I gave her my details just incase she needed a witness if she was to report it to the police.
After she went one her way home i set off on my way and thought about it all for the whole 15 miles of my ride. It really annoyed me to think of how could a group of blokes woild think its funny or clever to intimidate a young girl in the middle of nowhere. In my opinion there just Spineless bullying cowards who run away at the first sight of me.Sometimes i often wish a had a camera attached to my bike as it would of captured the reg of some of these clowns and any aggressive behaviour..
Anyway apart from my rant on the dregs of sociality i hope you're all well and enjoying this fantastic weather with your cycling


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## Drago (27 Feb 2019)

They're nothing short of bullying scum. Good on you, Sir.


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## johnnyb47 (27 Feb 2019)

Cheers Drago Its was just by pure coincidence i was in the right place at the right time. I dread to think what could of happened to her if i didn't turn up when i did. Maybe nothing but who knows with today's society


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## Mrs M (27 Feb 2019)

Well done!
Totally agree, spineless bullies 
Poor lady must have been petrified and absolutely relieved when you turned up


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## johnnyb47 (27 Feb 2019)

Thinking on whilst texting this i,m a firm believer that cyclists should always be there for each other out on our sometimes dangerous and crazy roads. We're an easy target from the less considerate driver's out there who think they can bully vulnerable cyclists.Whether its just a simple offer of a spare inner tube ect, to stepping in to stop outright bullying of a lone female cyclist,, its surely one of the qualities us cyclists will always have


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## I like Skol (27 Feb 2019)

Mrs M said:


> Well done!
> Totally agree, spineless bullies
> Poor lady must have been petrified and absolutely relieved when you turned up


And even worse, she will likely be too scared to go out cycling alone anymore (understandably).

Utter scumbags, flogging is too good for them!


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## johnnyb47 (27 Feb 2019)

*Mrs MVeteran*
Well done!
Totally agree, spineless bullies 
Poor lady must have been petrified and absolutely relieved when you turned up..

She was really scared bless her.
She also looked like she was an experienced cyclist too, so for something like this to upset her must of been serious. What goes round comes round and these idiots will upset the wrong person one day.


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## johnnyb47 (27 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> And even worse, she will likely be too scared to go out cycling alone anymore (understandably).
> 
> Utter scumbags, flogging is too good for them!


Thats the sad thing about it. She may well be reluctant to go out cycling now in the dark after this.


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## mudsticks (27 Feb 2019)

johnnyb47 said:


> Thats the sad thing about it. She may well be reluctant to go out cycling now in the dark after this.



Awful, scary stuff, good on you for intervening, but then I'd like to hope any of us would. 

Did she want to report this to the police? 
Could you be a witness? 

Are you in a sparsely populated enough area to make this worth putting on some kind of local Facebook page or whatever. 

See if they can be identified? Or at least shamed into desisting? 

Maybe not specifically mentioning it was a woman being intimidated - don't want to dissuade others from going out. 

But worth phoning police to ask for best course of action perhaps, and let them know these yobs are about. 

Who raises kids to think this kind of behaviour is even remotely OK??

Apparently there are dark corners of the Internet where 'entitled' male behaviour, like this is encouraged / justified. 

Those places need busting open, and flushing out.. Like the far right, and other extremist groups.


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## pjd57 (27 Feb 2019)

Well done @johnnyb47


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## Grant Fondo (27 Feb 2019)

Did you get any other details to pass on to the police? They will do the same thing again unless stopped. Good job though.


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## ozboz (27 Feb 2019)

That was a good call indeed Sir !


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## theclaud (28 Feb 2019)

I'm just glad there was a man on hand to verify the story, so that the menz on here know it's true.


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## Slick (28 Feb 2019)

Definitely bullying scunbags. Well done @johnnyb47


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Awful, scary stuff, good on you for intervening, but then I'd like to hope any of us would.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure there are dark corners of the internet where this type of behaviour is encouraged. To blame the disgraceful behaviour of the men in the car on some type of Maggie Thatcher bogeyman is taking it a bit far perhaps? Lumping all the people you disagree with into one big bin isn't that healthy.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I'm sure there are dark corners of the internet where this type of behaviour is encouraged. To blame the disgraceful behaviour of the men in the car on some type of Maggie Thatcher bogeyman is taking it a bit far perhaps? Lumping all the people you disagree with into one big bin isn't that healthy.



I have no idea where you getting all this business about MT bogeymen, and talk of 'people I don't agree with' . 

I was trying to comprehend how these guys thought their behaviour could be in any way acceptable. 

If they weren't brought up that way.

I'm hoping not, So then there must be other influences.

There are vile groups, and places on the Internet where disrespecting of women is routine, encouraged even. .

These places may, or may not have contributed in this incident. . 

But as a very troubling phenomenon in general they need to be stopped.


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> I have no idea where you getting all this business about MT bogeymen, and talk of 'people I don't agree with' .
> 
> I was trying to comprehend how these guys thought their behaviour could be in any way acceptable.
> 
> ...



Trying to pin their behaviour on to anybody you disagree with politically is just plain lazy though, isn't it?


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

Well done for intervening @johnnyb47, and for staying with her till she got picked up, for giving your details.
Shame she will now, probably, curtail her cycling.
Then again, maybe she won't.
As a woman cycle commuting at all hours because I work crazy shifts, I know those incidents happen.
I am glad they have been rare for me, a handful of times in 8 years of cycling everywhere, but, still, they have happened.
Don't beat yourself up about not taking the reg number, I once got verbally abused by the crew of a Scottish Gas van, still never occurred to me to report it, only much later it occurred to me the company could have tracked who was in the van.
Hindsight and so on ....
Maybe you'll meet the woman again on ride, in better circumstances.
I really do hope what happened won't put her off cycling.


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## Lavender Rose (28 Feb 2019)

johnnyb47 said:


> Thinking on whilst texting this i,m a firm believer that cyclists should always be there for each other out on our sometimes dangerous and crazy roads.



I agree, I have pretty much everytime been asked if I am OK by passing cyclists if I have stopped or taking a walk with the bike etc....regardless of gender!


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> There are vile groups, and places on the Internet where disrespecting of women is routine, encouraged even. .


Well, to be fair one does not have to go online to see such places, or such attitudes.
It is not acceptable to abuse anyone, in any circumstances, that should be a given.


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## raleighnut (28 Feb 2019)

Well done for intervening.


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## Johnno260 (28 Feb 2019)

I have had a car of 3 guys start on me before, and as someone who knows how to look after themselves it’s still very intimidating, but I made them back down.

For a female on her own I can’t even begin to imagine how she felt, people like this are just spineless dregs.


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## theclaud (28 Feb 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I'm sure there are dark corners of the internet where this type of behaviour is encouraged. *To blame the disgraceful behaviour of the men in the car on some type of Maggie Thatcher bogeyman* is taking it a bit far perhaps? Lumping all the people you disagree with into one big bin isn't that healthy.


He didn't.


View: https://twitter.com/kate_manne/status/1032137854028267520?s=19


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

When I used to work I was cycling home after a late shift, about 2330hrs one night. About halfway back I was I the arriss end of nowhere and I sees an MTBer with all the gear fiddling with his bike. Being the kind chap I am I stopped to offer assistance - he turned to look at the very large goatee bearded skinhead and nearly ***t himself. It took me half a minute to calm him down and convince him that I was genuinely offering to help and not trying to rob him.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

Trust @theclaud to know about stuff like that, and I mean it in a good way.


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2019)

I'm sorry, I still don't really get it, @theclaud.


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## Andywinds (28 Feb 2019)

Well done for stopping. I've also witnessed this before and as soon as I turn up the driver usually moves on. But I've also been followed before on my own, not great.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> Being the kind chap I am I stopped to offer assistance - he turned to look at the very large goatee bearded skinhead and nearly ***t himself. It took me half a minute to calm him down and convince him that I was genuinely offering to help and not trying to rob him.


That reminds me of when, on a dark evening riding through an empty green space with a female friend.
We were just back after leading a beginners ride, so we had all kind of bike tool with us.
To the lone, male cyclist fiddling with his bike, we said "we are the Belles on Bikes, can we help?"
The guy went  ... barked back ... NOOOO!


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## Levo-Lon (28 Feb 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Trust @theclaud to know about stuff like that, and I mean it in a good way.




Yeah, she needs to get a proper job.. Instead of terrorising us Menzs with facts and fings..
Womanist


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## theclaud (28 Feb 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I'm sorry, I still don't really get it, @theclaud.


So it seems! You crudely misrepresented what he said, which was that there might be a connection between online behaviours and offline ones.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

theclaud said:


> So it seems! You crudely misrepresented what he said, which was that there might be a connection between online behaviours and offline ones.



Thankyou exactly that.

I think there was a misunderstanding @slowmotion when I say 'far right' I'm talking about fascistic sorts EDF that kind of thing, who justify violence.

Not Conservative voters.

As Pat says any type of violence, threat or intimidation is unacceptable.
We don't need to point that out surely??

I was indicating places where these sorts of behaviours are excused.
Which need addressing.

And that they all add into a general atmosphere of misogyny, or male entitlement to disrespect women in particular - as @theclaud is illustrating.

Remember - "evil prospers when good men do nothing"

If you're not part of the solution - you're part of the problem.

Our OP intervened, if course, as any of us should, good for him - traumatic for him - far worse for the woman - who will most likely now have this incident at the back of her mind every time she goes out - but I hope it won't stop her 

But stamping out this awful type of behaviour needs to start long before anyone even begins to think that this kind of behaviour is OK.

Catcalling in the street, harassment, lewd remarks, 'boys will be boys' all that b*ll*x - it degrades us all.

Understand now??


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## theclaud (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> evil prosers when hod men do nothing.


Is this something to do with bricklaying again?


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## Slow But Determined (28 Feb 2019)

Thread has gone predictable. Well done OP for helping a fellow cyclist / human being irrespective of the gender of said person.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Slow But Determined said:


> Thread has gone predictable. Well done OP for helping a fellow cyclist / human being irrespective of the gender of said person.



Except the nature of this incident, and its repurcussions is not 'irrespective of gender' is it?

To suggest otherwise is burying your head in the sand and means that we are no closer to making the world a safer place for everyone.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

theclaud said:


> Is this something to do with bricklaying again?



Definitely @theclaud 

You fancy an arm wrestle later..? 

I can carry a good few bricks at a time.


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## rugby bloke (28 Feb 2019)

Joining this a bit late. Well done for helping a fellow cyclist, the people harassing her are mindless scum.

I hope she is not too traumatized by the event and is not put off solo riding. As has been said before, we should always look after each other out there on the road. There are 2 issues here, anti cyclist and misogyny and this is an illustration of what happens when you find yourself in the over lap of that particularly hateful Venn diagram.


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## steveindenmark (28 Feb 2019)

Good man. What a bunch of Aholes.


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## tom73 (28 Feb 2019)

Well done you and your right we do need to stick together and help each other out. 
Let's hope she's not put off you never know she maybe on here. What i'd say is don't let them beat you they are not worth it. 
Luckily more nice folk about than bad we just never hear about them.


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## potsy (28 Feb 2019)

Are you sure this isn't the plot of the next Jason Statham film, only missing Jason you, taking on the 3 blokes and leaving them in a pile on the floor and then bedding the girl


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

potsy said:


> Are you sure this isn't the plot of the next Jason Statham film, only missing Jason you, taking on the 3 blokes and leaving them in a pile on the floor and then bedding the girl



This is your lampooning of the situation referenced in another thread, where an awful incident, that has most likely traumatised young woman, is then, made into a jokey trope where it is

'All about the guy'

Please tell me that is the case


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## Rach1 (28 Feb 2019)

Well done Johnnyb47. That girl must have been so relieved when you intervened. I so hope she gets back out there maybe with company initially.
As a newbie female cyclist (slow, mature) I guess my pace could be annoying to some. As I become more adventurous I am no longer using my lovely pink cycling jacket on my own!! Out on some roads where there are few houses and little civilisation I now use my bright yellow jacket. I feel it makes me look more masculine and less of a target. Pink jacket with cycling club though. I think in my limited time in the sport there is a camaraderie out there.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

tom73 said:


> Well done you and your right we do need to stick together and help each other out.
> Let's hope she's not put off you never know she maybe on here. What i'd say is don't let them beat you they are not worth it.
> Luckily more nice folk about than bad we just never hear about them.



Yes if the _very few_ 'bad guys' put you off going out by yourself..

Wherever, whenever, and wearing whatever you want to.

Then 'the bad guys' have won, and they are controlling other peoples behaviour, aren't they?

And we don't want that happening do we?


Just out of interest - how many guys on here have ever based choices about the colour of their jacket around whether or not it would make subject to unwanted attention from other road users ??


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## Banjo (28 Feb 2019)

I have heard of male cyclists wearing pink jackets in the hope they may be treated with a little more consideration if drivers think they are female.

I doubt it makes much difference tbh.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Banjo said:


> I have heard of male cyclists wearing pink jackets in the hope they may be treated with a little more consideration if drivers think they are female.
> 
> I doubt it makes much difference tbh.



Well no of course it doesn't, 

Gender is usually fairly apparent from the movement in the hips.


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## nickAKA (28 Feb 2019)

Banjo said:


> I have heard of male cyclists wearing pink jackets in the hope they may be treated with a little more consideration if drivers think they are female.
> 
> I doubt it makes much difference tbh.



It probably makes a _tad_ of difference to some, but generally, knob heads are knob heads are knob heads and the colour of your jacket isn't going to change that...


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## User6179 (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Gender is usually fairly apparent from the movement in the hips



Don't you mean biological sex


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## tom73 (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Yes if the _very few_ 'bad guys' put you off going out by yourself..
> 
> Wherever, whenever, and wearing whatever you want to.
> 
> ...



“To affirm that men and women are persons and as persons should be free, and yet to do nothing tangible to make this affirmation a reality, is a farce.” 

“No one can be authentically human while he prevents others from being so.”

Paulo Freire


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Yes why not deflect attention from the main point, with a weak distraction.

@Eddy


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2019)

theclaud said:


> So it seems! You crudely misrepresented what he said, which was that there might be a connection between online behaviours and offline ones.


I see and hear the same things that you do, some of them nasty and vicious. I join up the dots in a different way and come to the conclusion that it probably isn't some kind of all-embracing evil conspiracy. That's all.


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

I'm simply thoroughly confused.


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## rugby bloke (28 Feb 2019)

If you take gender out of the equation and ask the question, "Should you help a fellow cyclist who is in distress ?" then its a no brainer ...


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## User6179 (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Yes why not deflect attention from the main point, with a weak distraction.
> 
> @Eddy



Just trying to keep you on script!


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## vickster (28 Feb 2019)

rugby bloke said:


> If you take gender out of the equation and ask the question, "Should you help a fellow cyclist who is in distress ?" then its a no brainer ...


And what about the male cyclists who feel it's ok to catcall or shout abuse at female cyclists...? And yes, they do exist even if all the male riders on CC are knights in shining armour...there are scumbags on all forms of transport


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## rugby bloke (28 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> And what about the male cyclists who feel it's ok to catcall or shout abuse at female cyclists...? And yes, they do exist even if all the male riders on CC are knights in shining armour...there are scumbags on all forms of transport


Fair point - they are equally as contemptible as the idiots in the original post.


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

It's happened only once, but I was out in my lycra enjoying a ride one day when a female motorist made an unsolicited sexual remark to me.


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## User6179 (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> It's happened only once, but I was out in my lycra enjoying a ride one day when a female motorist made an unsolicited sexual remark to me.



A clear case of toxic femininity and proof all woman are sexist!


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> It's happened only once, but I was out in my lycra enjoying a ride one day when a female motorist made an unsolicited sexual remark to me.



And did you feel threatened, or annoyed?

Probably not, because you knew full well she was no threat to you. 

You possibly enjoyed the attention. 

Women in the same situation rarely feel that carefree about it. 

It's ingrained in them to be wary of men, from a young age. 

Often for very good reason. 

Women on bikes, or anywhere, cannot tell just by looking.

The difference between all the good knights of CC 

And the @rseholes, who may do them harm..

Can you se the distinction here???


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

I was too surprised to be annoyed!

I'm top of the food chain, nothing frightens me 

Being serious, which is difficult for me at the best of times, the point is the the arrishole gene isn't solely restricted to one gender either.


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## roadrash (28 Feb 2019)

rugby bloke said:


> If you take gender out of the equation and ask the question, "Should you help a fellow cyclist who is in distress ?" then its a no brainer ...



i would remove the word cyclist and substitute it for "human being"


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## rugby bloke (28 Feb 2019)

roadrash said:


> i would remove the word cyclist and substitute it for "human being"


To be honest, that's what I had in my first version. If someone needs help, you help them. In this particular situation, despite being no use in a scrap I would like to think I would still be compelled to get involved.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Just out of interest - how many guys on here have ever based choices about the colour of their jacket around whether or not it would make subject to unwanted attention from other road users ??


This is a good point.
A few years ago, a friend of mine, not a cyclist, was commenting on the (bad) weather on seeing a female cyclist riding by.
My friend said to me: "oh, from far you can't distinguish if they are a man or a woman, this is good".
The cyclist was, of course, wearing the ubiquitous bad weather hi-viz commuting gear.
The sentence made me think, but I can't abide yellow, all my gear is bright red, bright pink or black.
One thing I have noticed when I'm out and about on the bike on shared paths is that pedestrians routinely address me as "mate", sometimes even the women, say when their dog crosses unexpectedly or similar.


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## Jimidh (28 Feb 2019)

Good on you for lending a hand helping out a fellow cyclist being harrassed by a bunch of dickheads.

It’s just a pity they’ll probably get away with it and not have to face the consequences for their behaviour.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

tom73 said:


> “To affirm that men and women are persons and as persons should be free, and yet to do nothing tangible to make this affirmation a reality, is a farce.”
> 
> “No one can be authentically human while he prevents others from being so.”
> 
> Paulo Freire



I love that you keep posting these inspirational, affirmations exhorting us to be better humans, sadly not many seem to be responding in spirit. 

But please don't give up. 

Some people learn best through constant repetition. 



Drago said:


> I was too surprised to be annoyed!
> 
> I'm top of the food chain, nothing frightens me
> 
> Being serious, which is difficult for me at the best of times, the point is the the arrishole gene isn't solely restricted to one gender either.



No its not, 
But when was the last time you heard of a solo cyclist, being harassed to the point of abject terror by a carful if women??

I don't really believe that most blokes are too stupid to see these invidious inequalities. 

I think it's more that if they acknowledge them, they'll have to change their own behaviours. 
And more importantly (perhaps) start calling out other guys for poor attitude.

I was asking my younger son about all this earlier today. 

He told me that one of the worst things that can happen to an insecure young guy, is to lose face in front of his mates. 

Even if that compels him to join in d*ck*sh behaviour.

Interestingly he has more female friends than male. 

I wonder if its anything to do with his general attitude towards them, as people??


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> But when was the last time you heard of a solo cyclist, being harassed to the point of abject terror by a carful if women??



Never. But so what? I don't behave like that, have nothing to answer or apologise for.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> Never. But so what? I don't behave like that, have nothing to answer or apologise for.



Of course you don't. 

That is so long as you are also doing your bit to see that no other guys ever behave like this - and that includes calling out behaviour or talk that might imply disrespecting women is OK. 

Role modelling good behaviour. 

Even if it feels uncomfortable, to do that. 

Cos I've heard tell that the Real Neanderthals don't even listen to women, or their concerns ?? 

So I guess the good guys (including those at the top of 'the food chain') need to keep stepping up, yes?


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## Drago (28 Feb 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Of course you don't.



So why single me out?

I received serious, career ending injuries while saving a female from a serious kicking, so I think I put my money where my mouth is to my own significant detriment. And I'd do it again.


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## mudsticks (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> So why single me out?
> 
> I received serious, career ending injuries while saving a female from a serious kicking, so I think I put my money where my mouth is to my own significant detriment. And I'd do it again.



I wasn't singling you out, I was pointing out that it's everyone's job to help create a fairer and less violent society. 

So just saying "I wouldn't do it"

But then not saying anything about anyone else's talk or behaviour, isn't enough.

I'm really sorry you got beaten up, and horribly hurt, by people who thought violence was acceptable. 

You'll know at first hand the horrors of it all. 

No one should have to live in fear of violence, or change their clothing choices, or curtail their activities because of it. 

Sadly many of us do. 

Particularly if we are not 'top of the food chain'


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> Never. But so what? I don't behave like that, have nothing to answer or apologise for.


Of course you don't have to apologize for the behaviour of others, but one hopes that if you witness such acts you'd call those out, expressing firm disapproval, stopping those others in their tracks.
Which, I am sure, you would do.
But: what about the manly "wink wink", "nudge nudge", "pow, what a piece of ..." among pals?
Macho culture is, imo, the first step that leads to the next, abusive, aggressive steps.
Don't get me wrong, us women casually lust after chaps too, of course we do.
The difference is we do not progress to abuse random chaps on bikes.
One may say "oh, well, of course not, a woman would end up the worse" - well not really, cars and other weapons could be employed, lots of women have physical strength.
Women don't routinely go about abusing men because it is ingrained in us that it's unacceptable for a woman to behave in an alpha male way because the alpha is by definition, well, male.
The tribal culture of the alpha male is what needs to be challenged, because it leads to bullying, harassment, social exclusion of women and of non conforming males.


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## tom73 (28 Feb 2019)

@mudsticks i’m lucky we had a very left field reading list for my teaching degree. Saying that the whole course was very diffent to most some may even say radical. Boy it was fun though.


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## Slick (28 Feb 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> This is a good point.
> A few years ago, a friend of mine, not a cyclist, was commenting on the (bad) weather on seeing a female cyclist riding by.
> My friend said to me: "oh, from far you can't distinguish if they are a man or a woman, this is good".
> The cyclist was, of course, wearing the ubiquitous bad weather hi-viz commuting gear.
> ...


Whilst I'm sure some would argue it's sexist, I've always hated people who address females as mate. I'm not entirely sure why.


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