# Getting rid of stubborn weight



## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

Apologies for another weight thread but I wanted my own.

As per the title, I am at the top end of my BMI and moderately active and I generally sit at about 75kg. In the past I've put on weight and lost most of it now and kept it that way for a number of years. So all in all, reason to be happy and basically I am.

But, I would like to lose some more and try to reduce my body fat percentage as well, which is again at the top end of normal for my age (50).

So every time I've tried in the past, I get to about 73 before it sticks at that. I've done this through calorie deficit, say trying to save 5000Kcal a week after calculating what I should be eating based on weight, activity and age. Such calculations work up until a certain point and then they simply don't seem to.

So rather than trying the same old thing again and perhaps repeating the same mistakes in intake or understanding, I'm looking for some help (don't point me at faddy diet stuff or fasting I'm something of a sceptic). I think I need to change what I eat a bit more, increase fish and vegetable and drop meat, that kind of thing and maybe change the exercise I do which is basically biking or running, perhaps swimming might help as it uses different muscles. I don't know, I'm a bit vague on this stuff past a certain point.

In the past I've calculated a sedentary calorie need of 1900 and simply kept a log of exercise I do on top of that and ate accordingly to aim for a calorie saving of 5000ish a week. Roughly, because calculating calories is an arse!

I'd like to go below 70Kg in a sustainable way but the way I bounce back to 75 makes me think it's going to be hard.


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## Booyaa (27 Sep 2013)

When you exercise, do you exercise hard? Or just go for a wee pootle around?


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

Booyaa said:


> When you exercise, do you exercise hard? Or just go for a wee pootle around?


 
ermm, rarely flat out, say at about 70-85% of my mhr (ramp tested not calculated) but yes, I don't tend to add a lot of variability to my workouts, often, my mindset is just to keep going and part of this is to have a few aims, which I didn't say but intend.


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

2677429 said:


> Have you tried lots of vigorous sex?


 It's a kind offer Adrian but you're not my type.


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## Born2die (27 Sep 2013)

BMI is no indicator if you are well built or are a regular cyclist with big legs that will throw out your bmi. I'm 5'8" 14 stone bmi says I'm very obese but my body fat is 15% so I'm most certainly not obese


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

Born2die said:


> BMI is no indicator if you are well built or are a regular cyclist with big legs that will throw out your bmi. I'm 5'8" 14 stone bmi says I'm very obese but my body fat is 15% so I'm most certainly not obese


 I'm lightly built underneath the blubber but you're right.


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## Booyaa (27 Sep 2013)

It sounds like you are eating quite well, you just need to add in different exercise, whether that is more/different exercise, like swimming as you mentioned, or what you are doing but at a different level. also if you are cycling long distances you are less likely to drop weight, putting more effort in, sprint etc. you will be more likely to see a difference in your weight. Perhaps even increase your cadance on a similar length ride so you are putting more effort in.


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## PK99 (27 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Apologies for another weight thread but I wanted my own.
> 
> As per the title, I am at the top end of my BMI and moderately active and I generally sit at about 75kg. In the past I've put on weight and lost most of it now and kept it that way for a number of years. So all in all, reason to be happy and basically I am.
> 
> ...



Whatever weight you are, if you are a stable weight with a stable eating pattern and go on a calorie deficit diet for a period and lose weight, then return to your previous diet you WILL put on weight and return to your previous stable weight.

Over the years I have tried all sorts of ways to take off weight: 
Meal replacement plans
Rosemary Conley Low Fat diet
Low GI Diet
etc

All were a hassle and a pain to do:
Low fat = low flavour.
Meal replacement = £££
Low GI = too much meal planning needed

All worked, and took off the weight, but at the end of the diet it went straight back on.

The one and only "diet" that I have found hassle free, low cost and full of great food is the 5:2 Fasting diet.
2 days a week think about restricting intake, 5 days a week eat normally with lower starchy carb intake ie less pasta/potato/rice more veg in variety


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## uclown2002 (27 Sep 2013)

Eat less and move more!


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## Herbie (27 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Apologies for another weight thread but I wanted my own.
> 
> As per the title, I am at the top end of my BMI and moderately active and I generally sit at about 75kg. In the past I've put on weight and lost most of it now and kept it that way for a number of years. So all in all, reason to be happy and basically I am.
> 
> ...


 


Blimey!! i'm 50 and I wish I could boast about being 75kgs.....be careful not to waste away


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## the_mikey (27 Sep 2013)

Swimming helps lose weight, but I do have to swim 2x a week or more.


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

PK99 said:


> Whatever weight you are, if you are a stable weight with a stable eating pattern and go on a calorie deficit diet for a period and lose weight, then return to your previous diet you WILL put on weight and return to your previous stable weight.
> 
> Over the years I have tried all sorts of ways to take off weight:
> Meal replacement plans
> ...


 
To some extent I've been there over the years, I've made adjustments and changed habits and that's why I'm where I am. I feel like I'm ready to make more but lack the knowledge to do it. I'm not sure fasting makes sense and I'm not willing to try it.


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

Booyaa said:


> It sounds like you are eating quite well, you just need to add in different exercise, whether that is more/different exercise, like swimming as you mentioned, or what you are doing but at a different level. also if you are cycling long distances you are less likely to drop weight, putting more effort in, sprint etc. you will be more likely to see a difference in your weight. Perhaps even increase your cadance on a similar length ride so you are putting more effort in.


 
I think the effort changes make sense, moving my body outside the groove it's used to, which has been necessary to be consistent.


Herbie said:


> Blimey!! i'm 50 and I wish I could boast about being 75kgs.....be careful not to waste away


 We may be different builds. I was 62kg at 20 (slight build), 68 at 30 and 75 now, so I'm carrying a lot for me. 68 would be good again.


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## Saluki (27 Sep 2013)

How about trying for a deficit of 3500 a week rather than 5000. That way you should shift a steady 1 - 1.5lbs a week, especially if you are cycling.

As the_mikey said, swimming is excellent. I pop to the gym now and again to mix up my exercise.


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## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

I would recommend Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald to you. Good solid science based nutritional overview, with lost of useful tips and strategies. Great for getting rid of those last few excess pounds.


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## lukesdad (27 Sep 2013)

Eat less of those Lamb shanks you wharthog !


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## Simmer (27 Sep 2013)

Fasting in 5:2 is not really fasting ... especially if you are exercising. Monday and Thursdays I calorie count to 700. (more than the 500 everyone says because of cycling/excercise). So that's a big bowl of porridge, cup a soup at lunch time with tea being a large jacket spud with cottage cheese and a massive portion of salad and dressing

the rest of week i drink wine at the weekends, maybe a beer or 2.. and try to keep within 2200 calories each day.. which to be honest if eating healthy is difficult. Most weeks I don't bother counting unless we are having something ready made out the freezer (very very rare)

Result so far.. 5:2 started end of April. 31 lbs lost... don't feel like I am dieting. Problem comes when I stop cycling when the snow/ice arrives. Will need to adjust meals accordingly. 

Is it a fad diet ? well I have not stuck to any other "established diet" longer than 4 weeks and my eating habits have changed for the better.


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> I would recommend Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald to you. Good solid science based nutritional overview, with lost of useful tips and strategies. Great for getting rid of those last few excess pounds.


 
Is it accessible Vamp. My problem is after a certain point I glaze over. I'll certainly look it up though.



lukesdad said:


> Eat less of those Lamb shanks you wharthog !


 
Well don't drag me up un-cyclable Welsh mtns you lying bugger, not too bad you said, I have witnesses.


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## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Is it accessible Vamp. My problem is after a certain point I glaze over. I'll certainly look it up though.



Very readable.


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## PK99 (27 Sep 2013)

uclown2002 said:


> Eat less and move more!



That used to be my mantra too.

But I changed it: Eat less. Move more. _Think more._


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## Herbie (27 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> I think the effort changes make sense, moving my body outside the groove it's used to, which has been necessary to be consistent.
> 
> We may be different builds. I was 62kg at 20 (slight build), 68 at 30 and 75 now, so I'm carrying a lot for me. 68 would be good again.


 
Good points well put.....good luck with your losing the timber


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

Saluki said:


> How about trying for a deficit of 3500 a week rather than 5000. That way you should shift a steady 1 - 1.5lbs a week, especially if you are cycling.


 
All that worked up until this certain point and then it stopped working. I made a few attempts, as logically it made no sense but no success, hence me asking on here for ideas.


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## PK99 (27 Sep 2013)

Simmer said:


> Fasting in 5:2 is not really fasting ... especially if you are exercising. Monday and Thursdays I calorie count to 700. (more than the 500 everyone says because of cycling/excercise). So that's a big bowl of porridge, cup a soup at lunch time with tea being a large jacket spud with cottage cheese and a massive portion of salad and dressing



The actual recommendation is "25% of normal intake"
500/600 is a basic rule of thumb that is easy for most folks to work to, but for a very active person 25% is a better guide.
My base metabolic rate (sitting in a chair all day simply existing) is 1900 Calories
Lifestyle takes that up to around 2800.
So I target 600 knowing that if I get it a little wrong I'm still within the range.

People (including the op) seem to get hung up about the term "fasting", Don't think of it that way. The OP spoke of working to a calorie deficit over the week. That is all the 5:2 diet does - gives a calorie deficit over the week but concentrated in 2 days. With the important caveat, that anyone who is serious about losing weight transfers some of the principles to other days too and does not over indulge.

Don't call it the _Fasting Diet,_ call it the _2-day Calorie deficit diet_!
But somehow that does not have the same attention grabbing effect of "*Fasting*"

ALL weight loss diets work in the same way: Imposing or inducing a Calorie Deficit.
Eat nothing but protein and you feel fuller for longer and get bored by eating so eat less = calorie deficit
Cut out fats from your diet = calorie deficit
Exercise more, eat the same = calorie deficit.
Eat pre planned meal replacements = calorie deficit
Eat cabbage 5 times a day = calorie deficit
Count and restrict calories for every meal = calorie deficit.

It's not rocket science.

FWIW, my "Diet" has been "good" for may years. Red meat rarely. Fish at least one a week often twice. White meat regularly. Remove the chicken skin. Piles of fruit and veg every day. Veggie meals 1/2 days a week. Very rarely had a pudding. All quality ingredients from a mix of Waitrose, independent butchers and farmers markets. I'm a foodie and wanna be Master Chef so recipes and cooking were fantastic.
Problem was, I ate too much good food.

I now still eat the same good food 7 days a week, but some weeks on 2 days a week I eat less of it.


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## Crackle (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Very readable.


 I ordered a copy after reading a bit on Amazon. Seemed to make sense. Almost certainly more info than I need but I'll just take what I need out of it, I'm fresh out of my own knowledge and ideas.


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## Simmer (27 Sep 2013)

Mine works out very similar. I use the tracker on a 5:2 website which adjusts your tdee as your weight drops. mine currently comes back as

Based on your current age (43), height and weight your Resting Metabolic Rate* is estimated to be 1852.8. For your selected level of activity (Moderate Activity) you should be eating around 2872 calories on your feed days and up to 718 calories on your fast days in order to lose weight.

Not really fasting in any sense but it seems to work.


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## Crackle (28 Sep 2013)

PK99 said:


> People (including the op) seem to get hung up about the term "fasting", Don't think of it that way. The OP spoke of working to a calorie deficit over the week.


 
I appreciate what you are saying and that you've found something that works but I was very careful about how I wrote the OP because, I'm not looking to diet as such, I'm looking to make permanent changes, which you mention. Such changes are the only thing that ultimately works. I think diets work for losing weight and with some luck you learn how to eat better. Some diets don't teach you anything but bad habits, I think fasting verges on this (or could do, maybe not for you but...) and there's already a thread on it so I specifically didn't want to cover it here as I looked at it and decided it's not what I want or need.

Instead I think my activity levels, age and eating habits are the things that I think I need to look at. In particular I need to know how to compensate for the fact my metabolism has changed over the decades. What once worked, doesn't now, in exactly the same way as I realised a few years ago, I can't just pick up exercise after a lay off, I need to be consistent now not indulge in the boom and bust of youth which was my habit through life. I don't expect these changes to be quick, it's taken me two or three years to create new habits already which got me to a stable weight and base fitness.


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## simon.r (28 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> As per the title, I am at the top end of my BMI and moderately active and I generally sit at about 75kg. In the past I've put on weight and lost most of it now and kept it that way for a number of years. So all in all, reason to be happy and basically I am.



I'm now in a similar position - top end of BMI, age 50, would like to lose 3 or 4kg and keep it off.

Last year I was unemployed for about 6 months and during that period I got down to my preferred weight. Looking back (and this is purely my own opinion with no scientific facts to back it up) I believe the following reasons were why I lost weight and kept it off for a reasonable period:


I was cycling often. My mileage was about the same as it is now, but I was riding short/medium distances most days rather than doing longer rides on just a couple of days.
I was eating regular, healthy meals. I had time to prepare food and to eat it. The temptation now I'm back working is to skip meals or to buy a (relatively) unhealthy sandwich or similar.
I was drinking less beer. For financial reasons my beer intake was probably 1/3 to 1/2 of what it is now.
So, nothing dramatic, but a generally healthier lifestyle for a period of several months.


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## Doseone (28 Sep 2013)

A friend of ours got rid of her stubborn weight by divorcing him.


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## Dayvo (29 Sep 2013)

If you can manage two- x five-minute sessions of skipping a day EVERY day (when it's possible of course) then you will notice a big difference within 3-4 weeks.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZjMuRRXLo


Naturally, you need to eat sensibly, too, but I have no doubt that you'll manage that, Crax!


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## Littgull (29 Sep 2013)

Dayvo said:


> If you can manage two- x five-minute sessions of skipping a day EVERY day (when it's possible of course) then you will notice a big difference within 3-4 weeks.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZjMuRRXLo
> ...


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## Littgull (29 Sep 2013)

Skipping is a great idea and I would quite fancy incorporating it into my fitness/exercise regime purely for a little off beat variety (not particularly to assist weight loss).

The problem I have is - where can you conveniently skip in relative privacy? My garden is on a slope and is therefore not compatible. To skip in the local park would leave me feeling a bit embarrassed as would skipping outside on the pavement. Skipping indoors at home is not viable due to size of rooms, objects (e.g. lights) in the way.

Any suggestions?


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

Dayvo said:


> If you can manage two- x five-minute sessions of skipping a day EVERY day (when it's possible of course) then you will notice a big difference within 3-4 weeks.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZjMuRRXLo
> ...




A couple of years ago I decided that every time I went for a wee I would do twenty star jumps (I worked at home). Over the course of a few weeks I gradually upped the number of star jumps I did each time I needed to tinkle. My wife did NOT appreciate the mess I made.


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## Crankarm (29 Sep 2013)

Eat at start and middle of day, little at end or after 6:32pm. Keep hydrated. Watch portion sizes, exercise harder and more frequently.


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## uclown2002 (29 Sep 2013)

Crankarm said:


> Eat at start and middle of day, little at end or after 6:32pm. Keep hydrated. Watch portion sizes, exercise harder and more frequently.


What happens after 6:32 pm?


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## ColinJ (30 Sep 2013)

uclown2002 said:


> What happens after 6:32 pm?


He eats at 6:30, and bolts his food?


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## Andrew_Culture (30 Sep 2013)

uclown2002 said:


> What happens after 6:32 pm?



Something like wot 'appens in that documentary about gremlins.


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## PK99 (30 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> I appreciate what you are saying and that you've found something that works but I was very careful about how I wrote the OP because, I'm not looking to diet as such, I'm looking to make permanent changes, which you mention. Such changes are the only thing that ultimately works. I think diets work for losing weight and with some luck you learn how to eat better. Some diets don't teach you anything but bad habits, I think fasting verges on this (or could do, maybe not for you but...) and there's already a thread on it so I specifically didn't want to cover it here as I looked at it and decided it's not what I want or need.
> 
> Instead I think my activity levels, age and eating habits are the things that I think I need to look at. In particular I need to know how to compensate for the fact my metabolism has changed over the decades. What once worked, doesn't now, in exactly the same way as I realised a few years ago, I can't just pick up exercise after a lay off, I need to be consistent now not indulge in the boom and bust of youth which was my habit through life. I don't expect these changes to be quick, it's taken me two or three years to create new habits already which got me to a stable weight and base fitness.



Fairy nuff!

Going back to your original post,

You say your BMR is 1900 calories, that seems very high if you are 75 kg. I'm 95kg, 6ft 2in and my MBR is around 1900Calories
I used: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

other calculators give the same sort of result.

Similarly how are you calculating your exercise calories? Most calculators I've seen for that are rudimentary.
The Harris-benedict formula seems reasonable
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/
for me 1900*1.55 = 2945.Calories per day

If you are setting a calorie deficit at a certain weight and it works to get you to a new weight, then weight stops reducing, that implies (Ockham' Razor) that your calorie intake is correct for your new weight.

The 5:2 pattern gives me a deficit of 2*(2900-600) = 4600 Calories per week which roughly tallies with the weight loss when I manage 2 diet days a week with no excessive intake days like a night out on the beer or dinner party.

When I have tried patterns of food restrictions every day, it has not worked for long or in the longer term, I suspect because errors in approximating intake are close to the daily deficit number.
Reference back to what works for me, even if i cheat on a diet day and have a mars bar, my calorie deficit is still 2000 instead of 2300. On a 500 calorie a day restriction a few errors and a little cheating wipes out the whole deficit.

You muse about dropping meat consumption and upping fruit and veg - that is a bit like the curates egg.
Our diet has changed over this year: 
More protein esp at breakfast, it leaves us feeling fuller for longer with no need of any mid morning boost.
Less carbohydrate: less frequent toast or cereal at breakfast time, protein and salad for lunch, fewer sandwiches, almost unlimited quantities of veg at meal times with modest quantities of starchy carbs.


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## Venod (30 Sep 2013)

Nothing scientific in my weight loss, I was about 77kg( 5' 10 ) in March now I am about 73Kg ( Still 5' 10" ) all that's changed is I have done more mileage this year than ever, I also have a higher cadence than I used to have, I eat loads drink a lot of beer but the cycling combats the calorie intake, I was caught on a ride yesterday ( I was going at a brisk pace, so he surprised me) by a guy who had took up cycling 18 month's ago at 17 stone he was down to 13 and wanted to lose a bit more. So I would say put them miles in at a high cadence and it f you use Strava pick out a segment you would like to improve your time on and make a big effort this varies your riding so things don;t get stale.


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## Crackle (30 Sep 2013)

Dayvo said:


> If you can manage two- x five-minute sessions of skipping a day EVERY day (when it's possible of course) then you will notice a big difference within 3-4 weeks.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZjMuRRXLo
> ...



Thanks Dayvo, I spent a long time studying that video for technique!


PK99 said:


> Fairy nuff!
> 
> Going back to your original post,
> 
> ...



You are correct about the calorie intake. I just checked my spreadsheet and 1900 was my starter, reducing to about 1700 but your calculator has it at about 1600. That could well be more accurate and I might plug it in to the spreadsheet later and see if it works better with what I achieved last time. I do recall there was a certain amount of experimentation over a few weeks to get a feel for the correct bmr and deficit.

Typically my diet consists of yoghurt and oat granola with banana for breakfast, soup for lunch or humus or salad and then tea which varies a lot and is the biggest problem as I cook to the lowest common denominator of likes for the family. If I stick to that and do some more preparation at tea then that fits my calorie deficit plans.


Afnug said:


> Nothing scientific in my weight loss, I was about 77kg( 5' 10 ) in March now I am about 73Kg ( Still 5' 10" ) all that's changed is I have done more mileage this year than ever, I also have a higher cadence than I used to have, I eat loads drink a lot of beer but the cycling combats the calorie intake, I was caught on a ride yesterday ( I was going at a brisk pace, so he surprised me) by a guy who had took up cycling 18 month's ago at 17 stone he was down to 13 and wanted to lose a bit more. So I would say put them miles in at a high cadence and it f you use Strava pick out a segment you would like to improve your time on and make a big effort this varies your riding so things don;t get stale.



I typically don't ride a long way. Anything from 15 to 40 miles is normal and often around 25, I rarely feel I have the time to do more and variety is the key to me to keep going, running and mtn biking as well and as I said further up, keeping going has been the achievement of the last few years, I need to try and move on from that. I don't know if I can do it but typing it on here is a bit of a spur and another purpose of the thread. If I tell people I have to commit to it.

Anyway my finger is hovering over committing to the Anglesey half marathon next March and I think the only way I'm going to stay motivated is to sign up to a few things I fancy but that's a separate topic.


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## michaelcycle (30 Sep 2013)

If you want to take the guesswork out of this have your RMR/BMR professionally tested. It is by no means perfect but it is much better than the usual predictive equations for BMR / TDEE which has a significant margin for error (in my case I really do have a slow metabolism and by BMR was 400 calories less than the predicted values!)

Depending on who you do the test with they should also give you an indication of your RQ (respiratory quotient) which indicates what fuel substrate you rely upon more heavily (fat or sugar) and how to tip that in your favour depending on the types of food you eat.

Whilst metabolism does decline with age the principal reason for creeping weight gain is simply people become more sedentary and tend to eat more (especially on an unconscious level).


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## Venod (30 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Thanks Dayvo, I spent a long time studying that video for technique!
> 
> 
> You are correct about the calorie intake. I just checked my spreadsheet and 1900 was my starter, reducing to about 1700 but your calculator has it at about 1600. That could well be more accurate and I might plug it in to the spreadsheet later and see if it works better with what I achieved last time. I do recall there was a certain amount of experimentation over a few weeks to get a feel for the correct bmr and deficit.
> ...



I also run and MTB (Orienteering mainly) I find that entering an event does give you the motivation required, so committing to the Anglesey half could be a good move.


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## Crackle (30 Sep 2013)

michaelcycle said:


> If you want to take the guesswork out of this have your RMR/BMR professionally tested. It is by no means perfect but it is much better than the usual predictive equations for BMR / TDEE which has a significant margin for error (in my case I really do have a slow metabolism and by BMR was 400 calories less than the predicted values!)
> 
> Depending on who you do the test with they should also give you an indication of your RQ (respiratory quotient) which indicates what fuel substrate you rely upon more heavily (fat or sugar) and how to tip that in your favour depending on the types of food you eat.
> 
> Whilst metabolism does decline with age the principal reason for creeping weight gain is simply people become more sedentary and tend to eat more (especially on an unconscious level).


Who and where does that kind of testing. I never knew that could be tested?


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## michaelcycle (30 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Who and where does that kind of testing. I never knew that could be tested?



Many universities who have sports science facilities will do RMR / metabolic testing as well some private companies who specialise in training.


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## Rob3rt (30 Sep 2013)

I wouldn't bother paying for such testing and the studies that get you free "treatment" usually involve taking something, or doing something none representative of your sport, so the results are not that relevant to you, only to the researcher!


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## Ruary (30 Sep 2013)

I'd personally recommend some form of resistance training, not talking about olympic lifting but it's amazing the transformation a couple sensible gym sessions a week can make, compount exercises (squats, dip, lunges etc) that activate multiple muscle groups and really work the stability/core muscles are great and I've found them benificial for cycling as well, it's amazing how much power increase you can get through a little bit of training.

If not then it's good old intervals, I like to do mine on a rowing maching just for a change from hill reps on the bike.


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## phil_hg_uk (30 Sep 2013)

Dayvo said:


> If you can manage two- x five-minute sessions of skipping a day EVERY day (when it's possible of course) then you will notice a big difference within 3-4 weeks.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZjMuRRXLo
> ...




I started skipping a few weeks ago, when I got a skipping rope at first it took me ages to get the length right and the next day it felt like someone had broken both my legs


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## Dayvo (30 Sep 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> I started skipping a few weeks ago, when I got a skipping rope at first it took me ages to get the length right and the next day it felt like someone had broken both my legs



If you anyone needs to find the correct length of a skipping rope, take the rope and stand in the middle: the handles should come up to your armpits. Adjust the length accordingly.


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## Crackle (1 Oct 2013)

OK, I've come up with a rough plan based on advice received, the book @VamP recommended and what I've done in the past. As soon as I've fleshed it out I'll post it on here for comment but it basically means some small adjustments to what I eat and when I eat it, changing the intensity of some of my exercise as well as trying to increase it and do something different and setting some targets.

I'll give it a few months to see if it works, target 1 being to reduce my percentage bodyfat and ergo my weight, target 2, to maintain that. I think this will be my last serious attempt, if it doesn't work, I'll stick to maintaining where I am now.

That book told me I'm not going to be a racing snake, maybe a racing slow worm but hey, they can move fast when they try. At least the one I tried to get a picture of did.


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## Crackle (1 Oct 2013)

So here's the plan, some aspects I haven't quite decided on yet, comments welcome on that but it's mostly there.

Food
Firstly, I am not going to calorie count: I thought long and hard about this, it's worked for me in the past but it's an arse and I think for this phase, unnecessary. Monitoring my body fat and weight will be enough to tell me if I'm successful or need to change things to slow the loss down or speed it up.

I am going to eat more vegetables, more fish, more nuts and seeds and more fruit, as well as lean meat, chicken, lean mince.
I am not going to eat, anything fried, anything processed, anything prepared. No drinking, no grazing my way through the fridge.

This actually won't be so difficult as I managed to get gastritis over the summer, diagnosed with a gastroscopy. I don't recommend either but it has actually spared me on to do this as I can't fekkin eat or drink much anyhow!

Typical meal plan:-
Breakfast - granola (oats and nuts), yoghurt, kiwi/cherries and banana + a coffee
Lunch - soup or salad and fish or chicken
Dinner - sweet potato (oven baked)/rice/whole wheat spaghetti, fish, broccoli or a tuna stir fry or similar
Snacks - nuts/seeds/raisins
Drinks - water/peppermint tea/green tea

No supplements aside form the flaxseed oil and cherry extract I already take.

None of that is onerous or difficult. That said I won't deny myself the occasional treat.

Exercise
I want to incorporate some core strength stuff every day. Nothing dramatic and it will compliment the stretching I've been doing anyhow.
I plan to exercise 4 times a week (I don't commute otherwise this would be easier). One of those sessions will be intervals and it will be mixed between bike and running. Initially 3 running, 1 bike for a few weeks as I pick up the running again, then I will temporarily swop to two of each and once the weather goes proper murky, it'll be running with a mtn bike session as cross training. I need to think about and refine what constitutes easy, tempo and above lactate as I've never really tried to apply this to myself in a structured way, help possibly needed here. On top of this, I will swim once a week. I plan to do some adult swimming lessons at some point.

Aims
Cycling I haven't decided on but almost certainly I want to do a half marathon in March next year. This is twice the distance I've run before and a proper challenge to me and I plan a 12 week training period for it. On top of that doing a triathlon has been lurking in my thoughts for some time but I will see how the swimming goes first, I'm really not a good swimmer.

That's it, long post, put down for my deliberation as much as anything else. If that don't shift some weight, I give up and will return to the beer once my bleedin stomach is better!

Finally, I did some double checking on performance and weight with regard running from the period when I began to be consistent if not profligate.
so when I started at my highest weight I was typically running 9:50 to 9:20 a mile. Longer runs were over 10 and I could never do much better. Then I dropped 9kg and I began to run under 9 until it was down to 8:30 and then below 8. Longer runs were under 9 as well (long being relative here). Well over a minute a mile difference, so I'm conscious of the difference some weight loss can have.

I'll let you know how I'm doing in a month or so and if I've managed to stick to the plan or needed to make changes, or life got in the way!


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## michaelcycle (2 Oct 2013)

Sounds like a solid plan: focus on food high in nutrient density but low calorie density which will provide sufficient volume, conscious eating to prevent unnecessary over eating, and a decent amount of exercise.

Obviously portion size can be an issue (particularly with calorie dense things like nuts) but I am sure you can tweak as time goes on depending on results. I don't think you need to be overly militant with the "no processed, fried or prepared" line but if you have no problem omitting these things then all the better.

Good luck!


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## Crackle (2 Oct 2013)

michaelcycle said:


> Sounds like a solid plan: focus on food high in nutrient density but low calorie density which will provide sufficient volume, conscious eating to prevent unnecessary over eating, and a decent amount of exercise.
> 
> Obviously portion size can be an issue (particularly with calorie dense things like nuts) but I am sure you can tweak as time goes on depending on results. I don't think you need to be overly militant with the "no processed, fried or prepared" line but if you have no problem omitting these things then all the better.
> 
> Good luck!


I don't intend to be over militant, that's self defeating in the long term. I'll try to be quite strict through this month though to get things moving.


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## rich p (3 Oct 2013)

I was going to suggest getting rid of useless, unemployed, vestigial organs but your plan seems more thought out.


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## Crackle (3 Oct 2013)

rich p said:


> I was going to suggest getting rid of useless, unemployed, vestigial organs but your plan seems more thought out.


Crackle's brain is missing kind of thing.

Thought is one thing, commitment is another but hey, might as well have a crack whilst can only gaze longingly at fried breakfasts and beer.


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## rich p (3 Oct 2013)

Good luck fatso


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## Crackle (30 Oct 2013)

I'm updating this now rather than at the end of the week as planned, mainly because my end of month target is in jeopardy because, as is it's wont recently, my body has broken down temporarily, so my planned fastest 5k park run attempt may not be on as I can't run. I might still make it, depends if I can manage a run tomorrow and don't exacerbate the problem. I won't bore you with the details but it's not a training injury. If I do make it, I'll update separately.

So, what have I managed, that's the important bit right? Well, it worked. I've dropped my body fat percentage by 4.5% which represents a 17% change. The book predicted 25%, So I'm on target to meet that. Weightwise, I'm at 72.4Kg, under the magic 73. That represents a 3% change in weight as I started at 74.5 having lost half a kg from the summer due to the gastritis. So for a 3% change in bodyweight I've achieved a 17% change in bodyfat.

I'd have done better but my gastritis has faded to nearly normal and I had a craving for some fried food and a few glasses of wine, so the last week or two has not been too disciplined but I think I've found the formula. Another kg of weight loss will see me hit the 25% target the book set. That won't be as easy as it sounds but it's possible.

I mostly stuck to my plan. I didn't do the core I'd planned, I strayed occasionally on the food front and I ended up dropping most of my cycling, as in recent years, I prefer to run in this weather. This is fine but as I need to build distance the last few weeks have not really burnt so many calories, that will hopefully improve next month.

Fitness wise, making 25% of my workouts more intensive is definitely working. I can probably tweak that some more now and build in a bit more structure but my average hr and more importantly the perceived effort, especially uphill, is going down. I had been guilty of going through the motions for a few years now so this has refreshed my enthusiasm. I'm still very much an average athlete but I'm a better average athlete than I have been 

So I'll crack on, finish this months 5k target and move on to next months fastest 10k target and see where I get to.


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## VamP (30 Oct 2013)




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## Sittingduck (30 Oct 2013)

Well done, so far.


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## bozmandb9 (30 Oct 2013)

Sounds like an excellent plan, and a great result so far! Keep up the great work!


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## sazzaa (30 Oct 2013)

uclown2002 said:


> Eat less and move more!



This is such an unhealthy saying. If you're exercising more you invariably need to eat more, food is fuel.


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## Crackle (30 Oct 2013)

sazzaa said:


> This is such an unhealthy saying. If you're exercising more you invariably need to eat more, food is fuel.



I should say at that point that if I was hungry I ate. Approaching a meal hungry is fine but leaving one still hungry or being hungry not long after doesn't work. I ate more before any longer outings. So when I say longer I mean going on the bike for a few hours as opposed to running 30mins and when I say more, I mean adding some extra fruit to my breakfast not eating a slap up fry up.


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## uclown2002 (30 Oct 2013)

sazzaa said:


> This is such an unhealthy saying. If you're exercising more you invariably need to eat more, food is fuel.



Eat less; move more is unhealthy? Will I go into Starvation Mode? That sounds bad.

Not sure you have read all of this thread but the title is "Getting Rid of Stubborn Weight"

Don't see how you can do that without *eating less and/or moving more.*


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## Spinney (30 Oct 2013)

sazzaa said:


> This is such an unhealthy saying. If you're exercising more you invariably need to eat more, food is fuel.


Your statement is correct if you wish to maintain your current weight.
It is not correct if the aim is to lose weight.


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## Crackle (30 Oct 2013)

Tah Spinney

At this point before anyone gets into a generic argument on losing weight, I should refer you back to my op and the whole thrust of this thread, which was not just about weight loss.


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## Licramite (30 Oct 2013)

I know this is a long shot, but have you considered testoterone replacement therapy - its a bit like HRT for women , as your 50 ish terstoterone levels drop off and by replacement it says it will prevent the body storing fat as it does in old age.
I know it has an increased chance of prostrate cancer , beyond that I don't know of any other side effects.(bad ones anyway)

I'm not recommending it, I just thougt you might want to look into it. - I think your doing fine grit and determination and acceptance thats theres no quick fix , blood sweat and gears.-


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## Crackle (30 Oct 2013)

Licramite said:


> I know this is a long shot, but have you considered testoterone replacement therapy - its a bit like HRT for women , as your 50 ish terstoterone levels drop off and by replacement it says it will prevent the body storing fat as it does in old age.
> I know it has an increased chance of prostrate cancer , beyond that I don't know of any other side effects.(bad ones anyway)
> 
> I'm not recommending it, I just thougt you might want to look into it. - I think your doing fine grit and determination and acceptance thats theres no quick fix , blood sweat and gears.-



The whole male menopause is pretty controversial from what I've read.. I think I'd have to be having some fairly major problems and symptoms before I went down that route because like you say, it has implications.


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## sazzaa (31 Oct 2013)

Spinney said:


> Your statement is correct if you wish to maintain your current weight.
> It is not correct if the aim is to lose weight.



Nonsense. If I exercise more and eat less I'm lacking in energy in no time and still don't lose weight. When I exercise daily and eat more fruit, veg and lean meats than I usually would the weight starts dropping. Move more, eat more of the correct foods, and don't mess with your metabolism.


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## Spinney (31 Oct 2013)

sazzaa said:


> Nonsense. If I exercise more and eat less I'm lacking in energy in no time and still don't lose weight. When I exercise daily and eat more fruit, veg and lean meats than I usually would the weight starts dropping. Move more, eat more of the correct foods, and don't mess with your metabolism.


OK, have it your way. All those other people who have lost weight by exercising more and eating less must have different metabolisms to yours.


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## sazzaa (31 Oct 2013)

Spinney said:


> OK, have it your way. All those other people who have lost weight by exercising more and eating less must have different metabolisms to yours.



Oh folk might be losing weight, but it's a damn unhealthy way of doing it.


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## Crackle (27 Nov 2013)

Ok, final update I think.

Body fat percentage has apparently stayed the same but that may be because of my minimalist measuring technique. Weight has dropped another kg to 71.5 but I've done little in the last few weeks and my will to continue has now ended. Therefore I'll see if I can maintain this.

I can feel the difference. Running is definitely easier and I've been running pb's on most of my routes, especially the ones with hills in.

I may try again in the New Year, I may need to after xmas! I am though reasonably happy with this and I'm using notches on my belt which have not been used for over 10 years (yes I have had my belt that long). being 3.5kg over the weight when I was at my fittest and 20 years on is not bad.


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## Shut Up Legs (28 Nov 2013)

I had a pleasant surprise recently. About a month ago, I stepped up my preparations for the Audax Alpine Classic (250km option). The method was simple enough:

Push myself a bit harder on my 2 daily commutes, i.e. a bit more out of the comfort zone.
I used to have 2 morning coffees at work, the first with a takeaway yoghurt/muesli combo, and the second with a muffin. I've ditched the muffin.
My lunches weren't always the most healthy, sometimes consisting of takeaway hot meals served by nearby cafes. I switched that for a simple pie + meat/salad or vegetarian roll.
My weight then dropped from 86 to 83kg, and stayed down!  Believe me when I say it will make a difference during the above-mentioned ride.


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## poynedexter (29 Nov 2013)

i have also changed my eating habits recently. im now cutting right down on sugar/ carbs/ starch/ grains, while upping my intake of fats and proteins. im eating loads of veg/ salads/ dairy/ nuts and less fruit.

eggs, full fat dairy, butter, fish, bacon, cheese etc are frowned upon (not fish lol) by the medical profession for the last 40 years because of heart disease (why?) but i'm feeling great and loosing weight on them. i'm nowhere near as hungry as i used to be so may be eating less calories as a result, and my food tastes great.

i've come to believe that the lack of sugar is the key.

ps my cycling is improving too.


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