# first impressions on bents



## bonj2 (10 Nov 2008)

I've actually gone to a shop and had a go on a load of different recumbents, and my initial thoughts are:
* they're not _that_ much faster than uprights
* USS ones seem a LOT easier to handle - not what i expected
* ASS ones are *very* twitchy and difficult to corner on
* they are comfortable, quite good fun, and very intriguing
* trikes are good fun round corners, but seem quite a bit slower on the flat, even though in fact are probably only a tiny bit slower.
* I'm not sure I'd want to go out and spend a four figure sum on one
* although I am intrigued to ride one again.

To expand on the speed perception: in fact they didn't even seem _as_ fast, on the flat, but I make a certain allowance for developing different muscle groups. What's more the two wheelers seem faster than the trikes, even though they're probably not that much at all. That may have been just 'cos it felt 'less safe', I don't know - but i was expecting the closeness to the ground to result in a feeling of greater speed, but it didn't appear to.
When I rode a pretty much fully recumbent under-seat steering one, i found it quite manageable round corners. But an above seat steering one (a challenge hurricane) of about the same level of recumbent-ness- woah! Tricky. I kept having to try and consciously decide what percentage to actually turn the bars and what percentage to try and bank it - I sense that's something that should come naturally and that's the learning curve, but it definitely is a big learning curve. Big, though whether steep, or not - I can't really tell yet - which is something i probably need to glean next.

I think for me, riding a trike would be the equivalent of downhill MTBing - you basically do it *just* for the descents, and everything else is work that's basically done to get you to the top of the hill. I dont' think they're good enough as all-rounders for me to get one.

So in summary, really: (a) I'm glad I have tried them out. So if nothing else my comments on them won't be able to be batted down with 'but you haven't ever ridden one' !  , and (B) although i wasn't completely disappointed in what they might have to offer what i want out of cycling, they didn't 'wow' me like I thought they might.

I think the only one that I could probably enjoy using regularly and not just use a few times and then stick in the garage or sell again, would be one similar to the challenge hurricane. I think that if i got one then once i developed the muscle groups to get it up to speed then the speed that I would be able to maintain would possibly be _slightly_ higher. I've no doubt that I would be perfectly capable of learning to ride it to an acceptable degree for a spin round the lanes. However, what I haven't decided yet is whether the time investment in the learning curve of riding it to a _good_ degree, would be worth the increased fun associated with that, such as riding fast bends, downhill etc. What's the learning curve like - does it just 'click', suddenly? Or do you just get better gradually 
I thought the fujin looked my ideal 'bent, so I'm glad i didn't go and buy one as that's _even more_ difficult than the hurricane to ride - however if i was getting a bent at all i'd be more likely to get a cheap used one as my first one and then move on when i had mastered it, if i wanted to.

I wouldn't consider myself as in the market for one, like i thought i would be, although I do think that sometime i might have a bash at riding a fully recumbent ASS one for a few miles on a proper ride to see just how difficult I think it's going to be to learn.


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## betty swollocks (10 Nov 2008)

Hurricanes are not difficult to ride, you just need a bit of practise. And even though mine is a bit heavier than my road bikes, it is considerably quicker: about 15% so I'd say.
Here's me on my Hurricane.


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## byegad (10 Nov 2008)

First impressions can be wrong. My trike average speeds for a regular route I take are much the same as the averages I was getting on my DFs a couple of years ago. It took about a year for this to be true so your impressions re muscle groups are correct.


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## squeaker (10 Nov 2008)

FWIW, I find my 'bent bike (OSS Grasshopper) about 10% faster overall than my trike (Trice 'S').
Also IME:
- Muscle groups definitely do need retraining.
- The more reclined and closer to the ground you are the more 'different' the riding experience is (which mucks up all you do instinctively on a DF bike - in my case from 50+ years experience): it look me about 500 miles before I felt comfortable just getting on an pedalling off - definitely a progression: no sudden switch moment for me. Practicing figure of eights and (steep) hill starts on quiet roads helped a lot to gain confidence.
- Some are definitely more 'lively' than others: the OSS Mistral I had was definitely a bit more twitchy at low speed than my Grasshopper, but a (lower) Baron I tried was really smooth.
As for speed, Kreuzotter is worth a play with 
Can't comment on Hurricanes, other than to say that there are several different iterations (sport, touring, superlight, etc.) which doubtless have their own quirks, but a S/H one would seem to be a good intro into the recumbent bike world.
Have fun!


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## Auntie Helen (10 Nov 2008)

Hi Bonj, it was interesting to read your comments, many thanks!

I know that my husband found when switching from a bog-standard mountain bike with road tyres to his second-hand trice that he averaged about 2mph faster. He hadn't done a great deal of cycling before he made the switch and so I suppose none of his muscles were particularly trained, thus the recumbent didn't feel as different muscle-wise. Of course, things can be very different for different people, as we know, and I am of the opinion that what suits someone/works best for them may not be the best for someone else. Sounds like for you the investment in a recumbent might not be worthwhile, but it might be worth trying to get hold of an old one and using it a bit more just to see if the muscle training does make a difference over time.


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## dodgy (10 Nov 2008)

Nice summary there, Bonj. I had a brief 2 or 3 week flirtation with a Windcheetah Speedy in the early summer. I sold it because it wasn't as fast as I was anticipating (I too, had made allowances on muscle adaption etc). Nothing lost and I'm glad I had a go, I also sold it for a nice £250 profit 
I still think they're fine pieces of engineering, but I wouldn't buy one for their speed alone.


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## bonj2 (10 Nov 2008)

yeah.
* I don't mean I think trikes ARE slower than normal bikes, I just thought they *seemed* slower, or at least certainly no faster.

* I would probably buy a second hand 'bent of the sort of hurricane-ish style, if there was one going cheap, but I don't think I'd spend a lot on one.


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## tdr1nka (10 Nov 2008)

The leg muscle re-training is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome with 'bents.
It was only after a few weeks of riding my trike that I found my speeds increased, I had been very disappointed up until then thinking I wasn't as fit as I could be as my legs couldn't give the same kind of power as they would with my DF.


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## Andy in Sig (10 Nov 2008)

I agree with tdr1nka about the leg muscles but the knack of riding them does come very quickly indeed.

So Bonjy, the time has come for you to stop fannying around, get your credit card out and drive off on a HPV Street Machine. You know it makes sense.


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## mickle (10 Nov 2008)

Great post Bonj, I haven't done enough mileage on my Speedy yet so it still feels sluggish but twenty years ago in the days when I did have recumbent legs my old Speedy was much faster than my road bike. 

Get one with a full body shell, then you'll really shift!


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## swscotland bentrider (10 Nov 2008)

Enjoyed reading your observations Bonj. My experience (I'm now a year down the recumbent road) was that muscle adaptation takes 500 - 100 miles of riding. It took about nine months of regular use before riding one approached the DF levels of intuitiveness. Not surprising as I had 40 years on DF's. Speed has never been a major issue for me but my fuego is at least the equivalent of my audax bike. Most things I read tend, IMO, to underplay the length of the learning curve. I'll let you know how I get on with my newly acquired Trice Q once it is built


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## Andy in Sig (11 Nov 2008)

mickle said:


> *Great post Bonj*, I haven't done enough mileage on my Speedy yet so it still feels sluggish but twenty years ago in the days when I did have recumbent legs my old Speedy was much faster than my road bike.
> 
> Get one with a full body shell, then you'll really shift!



F**k Me! Talk about "Lines one seldom reads"!


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## xpc316e (11 Nov 2008)

Before you dismiss 'bents, you ought to try riding one into a sustained headwind for a while - for me they really shine in this area.


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## BentMikey (11 Nov 2008)

xpc316e said:


> Before you dismiss 'bents, you ought to try riding one into a sustained headwind for a while - for me they really shine in this area.



Oh YES!! Was beautiful on this morning's commute, wind, what wind? There's no wind down here.


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## ufkacbln (12 Nov 2008)

I am NOT a fat rider, but my CAtrike is faster than my Street MAchine, Airnimal or Hurricane!


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## threefingerjoe (13 Nov 2008)

I agree with those headwind comments! You'll feel guilty, though, about not being able to take your turn pulling your buddies on their DFs. You can draft them, but it does them no good to try to draft you. 
You'll also notice a difference when you ride about 70 miles, and you get off and NOTHING HURTS! Hands don't go numb, neck doesn't hurt...nothing! You'll feel sorry for your buddies when you see them dangle a hand by their side, shaking it, trying to get the circulation going. You'll sympathise with them, because it will remind you of how it used to feel.


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## BentMikey (13 Nov 2008)

Cunobelin said:


> I am NOT a fat rider, but my CAtrike is faster than my Street MAchine, Airnimal or Hurricane!



Really? Is that purely because of the fairing? I have a hunch that would no longer be the case on a very hilly ride when compared with a light weight two-wheeled bent.

Impressed you tried 'bents, bonj. Quite a bit of what you wrote seems familiar to me from when I started.


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## Andy in Sig (13 Nov 2008)

Would I be right in thinking that if you switched from a mid-height bent like a Street Machine to a bent trike (obviously much lower) that the resultant muscle adaptation would be minimal?


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## Auntie Helen (13 Nov 2008)

Andy in Sig said:


> Would I be right in thinking that if you switched from a mid-height bent like a Street Machine to a bent trike (obviously much lower) that the resultant muscle adaptation would be minimal?


Are you thinking of coming over to the dark (3-wheeled) side?


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## Andy in Sig (13 Nov 2008)

I've been toying with it for a while. Apart from not having the cash at the moment the only thing which is holding me back is the worry that it might be so much fun that I might not want to ride my Street Machine any more, much like I don't want to ride my normal bike now.


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## Auntie Helen (13 Nov 2008)

I would have thought it's different fun, though, and that in many cases a 2-wheeler is more fun than a 3. I imagine a 2-wheeler is easier to live with if you're trying to get it on and off trains and through narrow gaps etc. I would have thought if you got a trike you'd still have a lot of use for your Street Machine on occasions when the trike is less suitable. On the other hand, in winter on slippery roads with wet leaves and rain the trike is such fun as it's so safe


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## ufkacbln (13 Nov 2008)

Andy in Sig said:


> I've been toying with it for a while. Apart from not having the cash at the moment the only thing which is holding me back is the worry that it might be so much fun that I might not want to ride my Street Machine any more, much like I don't want to ride my normal bike now.



I have three recumbents and the rides are different, but unique - 

Street Machine, solid, load carrying and tours as it will travel by train and fit into hotel rooms, pub cellars and the likes.

Hurricane, fast , nippier, more exciting to ride, but does not cary luggage as well

Catrike - best of the lot, fast, nimble, stable and exciting - but does not go on trains and is more difficult to securely park overnight when away.

You simply have the benefit of choice when you feel like it....


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## squeaker (14 Nov 2008)

Andy in Sig said:


> Would I be right in thinking that if you switched from a mid-height bent like a Street Machine to a bent trike (obviously much lower) that the resultant muscle adaptation would be minimal?


IME it's the seat angle and relative BB to seat base heights that your muscles worry about. 
Your brain just has to get used to being able to see under 4x4's....


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## Arch (14 Nov 2008)

Interesting stuff - speed isn't the big deal for me, so I've never thought about whether I'm faster - I know I am downhill though, because I feel so much safer on three wheels just letting it go.... For me the real boon is comfort, the stability of the trike and (ever so slightly) enjoying people's reaction. I wish I could store the trike at home and use it everyday, but not having a shed or garage at the flat, I can't. Poor thing is a bit neglected.

I guess you'd (I mean anyone, not just bonj) never get a full impression in a day or so. Imagine the first few days when you learned to ride a 'normal' bike, it was strange and there was a steep learning curve...


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## fards (17 Nov 2008)

Well I know I've never done 43mph on the flat on any of my road bikes, like I can do on the wyre, so I'd say theres a huge speed difference..

the hurri isn't about speed, it's not really designed for that sproty yes, fast no. Much in the same what a dutch city bike isn't going to be as fast as an carbon TT machine, it's a bit daft saying that recumbents aren't as fast as you thought, when you haven't tried something quick.
Maybe bonj you could do with trying some faster machines.. 

We're happy to let you play with some at BHPC races when you fancy. 

Not all recumbents are built the same


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## BentMikey (17 Nov 2008)

So Fards, rate us a couple of fast production machines then?


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## bonj2 (17 Nov 2008)

fards said:


> Well I know I've never done 43mph on the flat on any of my road bikes, like I can do on the wyre, so I'd say theres a huge speed difference..
> 
> the hurri isn't about speed, it's not really designed for that sproty yes, fast no. Much in the same what a dutch city bike isn't going to be as fast as an carbon TT machine, it's a bit daft saying that recumbents aren't as fast as you thought, when you haven't tried something quick.
> *Maybe bonj you could do with trying some faster machines..
> ...



yeah, I did think that aswell. But correct me if i'm wrong, but my perception is that they're _even harder_ to ride than a hurricane...
and I'm not really sure i'd want to go the full fairing route either - too heavy on the uphills, only really any good for the track imho.


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## byegad (17 Nov 2008)

If I can chip in, a hurricane is easy to ride, once you've got the balance sorted. You can say that about any bike. 

The old, Big wheel, Ordinary riders said it about the safety bicycle when it came out. 

Don't confuse learning to ride a bike with being able to ride a bike. It took me about 400 miles to get confidence on my Azub and that was with an undiagnosed and worsening Vertigo problem. Most riders are happy in less mileage than I took.


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## andharwheel (19 Nov 2008)

Some good points. My Hurricane can be fast on the flat, but not as fast as my Cannondale road bike with tri bars. You shouldnt expect it to be. I can average 23mph during a time trial, but have never managed that average on my Hurri. Thats why my next bent is going to a carbon lowracer with/ without tailbox. Horses for courses.


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## Arch (19 Nov 2008)

andharwheel said:


> Some good points. My Hurricane can be fast on the flat, but not as fast as my Cannondale road bike with tri bars. You shouldnt expect it to be. I can average 23mph during a time trial, but have never managed that average on my Hurri. Thats why my next bent is going to a carbon lowracer with/ without tailbox. Horses for courses.



Sorry, for a moment I skim read that last line as "with a horse box".....


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## byegad (19 Nov 2008)

Neigh! Lass!


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## ufkacbln (19 Nov 2008)

Horses are frightened of recumbents...... so any opinion by a horse is invalid!


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## Auntie Helen (19 Nov 2008)

I was considering today the response I get from dogs as I cycle past. Now I'm a real dog lover, we have a Weimaraner ourselves, and so it does amuse me as I'm cycling along past dogwalkers to watch the dogs' faces. They seem to peer at you the whole time, often with a clear "what on earth is that????" expression on their faces. I usually say "hello doggie" as I waft past. I don't think that people on regular bikes are particularly interesting to dogs but they certainly seem to find me fascinating on my trike.


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## Arch (21 Nov 2008)

In France this summer we excited lots of dogs, who would throw themselves at the chainlink of their gardens in a frenzy. I expected several of them to come right through, as hexagonal sausages.

Mind you, the day I glanced up a farm drive as I passed, and saw two dogs heading down at top speed and then registered the lack of a gate... Fastest speed ever attained on the level! (in the end, the owner shouted to them before they reached the end of the drive and they turned and trotted back).

I did see some video of a group out on trikes in France, and a dog (a soppy great retriever) came running up and jumped onto the lap of one of them, and sat there, wagging it's tail...


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## byegad (21 Nov 2008)

I come from the other end of the spectrum from Auntie Helen. I carry a Dog Dazer and use it often. There seems to be three basic reactions from dogs. 
1. They ignore you. So I ignore them.
2. They want to eat you. These get the full benfit of my Dog Dazer and my boot if they get close enough.
3. They want to play. See my response in No. 2. above.
I also detest the mess they leave behind especially when it gets on my tyres. 
I know there are a lot of owners who are resposible and take every care of their dog and its mess. Unfortunately there are many who do not!


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## byegad (21 Nov 2008)

Almost anywhere near houses. Our back lane and front street, my Sustrans route where it is within 50yds of housing or a carpark, the owners seem unable to walk further thank goodness, Middlesbrough town centre, Darlington town centre.... I could go on. 

As to using my foot against a dog getting too close. I realise dog lovers won't like it but if your dog looks like it's going to get a piece of me I'll try for a piece of it!
I'm with Richard Ballantine on this one.


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## dodgy (22 Nov 2008)

Brave man


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## Riding in Circles (22 Nov 2008)

I cycle an offroad route from time to time, part of NCR 1, dog walker usually have their dogs off the lead on it, most of the time it isn't an issue but occasionally a dog will try to attack, I find that a swift pull of the opposite side brake with a weight shift so the rear wheel lifts and swings round smacking the dog, deals with the problem, they never go near you again.


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## Arch (25 Nov 2008)

I've never felt dog mesh was a problem, I steer round it. And I don't think I've often felt I was about to be attacked by a dog. My worry is mainly that a loose dog (or one on a long lead), will turn across my path suddenly and we'll collide. I don't think we can expect many dogs to have any sort of 'road sense' especially on a shared path, where there's no kerb for them to recognise - hence I always slow down when passing a dog.

A while back TheDoc and I were riding back along the York-Selby path and a little fuzzy type trotted in front of us and along the path. We both slowed and moved to one side to overtake. It looked back at us, and moved over, the same way. So we moved the other way, and it did the same! It was getting quite funny, every time we moved, it did too, just enough to dissuade us from passing. Its owners were up ahead and when they realised, they apologised and grabbed hold of it, and we just laughed about it. It was just like that dance you do when trying to avoid bumping into someone coming down a corridor...


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## Amanda P (25 Nov 2008)

In Ireland recently, Mrs Uncle Phil and I passed a house with dogs running around outside it. (It seems to be the law in Ireland that all rural houses must have at least one loose dog suicidally roaming around in the road in front of it). Just as we passed, a bus came past going the other way. One of the dogs made a crouching run across the road (presumably to bark at the bus), failed to notice Mrs Uncle Phil approaching and got its neck run over by her front wheel.

Fortunately it was a robust dog and Mrs Uncle Phil is on the small side. And carries all her luggage on the back of the bike.

Our own dog rides a recumbent of his own...


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## Amanda P (25 Nov 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


>



_"Now, if I could just reach the pedals..."_


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## byegad (25 Nov 2008)

Riding round dog mess is easier on two wheels than three. As an enforced triker I find the mess in some areas means I don't enjoy the ride, just trying to slalom round the mess and keep an eye on the traffic is a full time job. 

I have been determinedly attacked by a dog at least six times over the years. Each time fate meant I got away with it. One dog was so determined to get me it didn't see the car that bowled it over, sadly it seemed OK after it got up but thankfully lost any desire to get me. Three attacks I simply out ran, once by doing a 180 and fleeing down hill. twice the dog got close enough for me to touch. One I kicked it so hard it ran off and the other I kept at bay by dismounting and keeping the bike betwen me and it as I retreated. That one was deadly serious and kept it up for some ten minutes before backing off as we got far enough from the farm yard it had come from.

Nowadays I react before they get quite as close and the Dog Dazer does seem to help but if the dog keeps coming I'm ready for it.


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## threefingerjoe (26 Nov 2008)

A friend of mine ran over a dog with his touring bike, on Sunday. It was a boxer. He crashed. Fortunately, he didn't hurt himself or the bike too badly. That was the third dog incident we had on that ride. The other 2 times they outran the dogs. I was riding my recumbent, and riding on point for most of the ride. I guess I was flushing out the dogs, then my mates had to deal with them. 

Many years ago, I broadsided a Labrador Retriever. That hurt. I did a header. Flattened the side of my helmet and put my lights out for a few seconds. I was able to twist the bike back into good enough shape to ride home, but I was quite sore for a long time.


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## byegad (26 Nov 2008)

Dog owning has one of those irregular verbs.
My dog is obedient
Your dog is payfull
His dog is a danger to the community.


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