# More money than sense...



## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

...is often a term used by those folks who can't get their head around how much others would spend on a bicycle. I'm generally of the opinion of that if you have it spend it, but then I find this.

*Le Flaneur Sportif d'Hermes bicycle





*
And I struggle to understand why anyone would spend $13,200 on this bike.


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## Deafie (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> ...is often a term used by those folks who can't get their head around how much others would spend on a bicycle. I'm generally of the opinion of that if you have it spend it, but then I find this.
> 
> *Le Flaneur Sportif d'Hermes bicycle
> 
> ...


I dropped $4k on a Thorn 11 years ago and still hate myself for it......except when I ride it.


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## biggs682 (8 Feb 2018)

I like the colour and style from the picture but that's where it stop's


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

If it’s worth the money to those that can afford it, why not? What’s the point in earning money and paying taxes if you can’t spend it? Sticking it in an offshore savings account helps nobody. Spending it puts it back into the economy.


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## PaulSB (8 Feb 2018)

Well I wouldn’t buy it as I don’t like the look of it - bikes have to be beautiful as well as a great spec. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder. 

HOWEVER if I truly could afford it, lottery win etc. my first luxury would be a bespoke bike built specifically for me regardless of cost. I’d simply drop in to my LBS and start the project there. It won’t happen.


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## Fonze (8 Feb 2018)

I have friends that smoke like a trooper and drink like a fish .. I do neither .. I'd be interested in what they've spent over a period of say three years ..
Cars houses motorbikes bikes holidays, it's only a case of spend what you,can afford ..
£15000 on a bike say is only relative to your expendable cash, not necessarily a perverse figure of money to spend ..


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

Would you spend a couple of hour’s earnings on a bike you really like? If you’re into bikes many would.


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## Fonze (8 Feb 2018)

Quite right I would ..
I'm not into cars or motorbikes, in my life had few nice cars but have a real passion for bikes now and have no problem spending what I can on a lovely bike ..


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## hoopdriver (8 Feb 2018)

I can well understand someone spending serious money on a bicycle. But spending that kind of money on a bicycle designed by a fashion house? That seems odd. That is more bicycle-as-fashion-accessory than passion-for-cycling. As a cyclist _that _is something I cannot understand. The spending of serious money on a dream bike - sure!


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## bpsmith (8 Feb 2018)

It doesn’t do it for me, but it might for someone else.

Just because it’s come from a fashion house doesn’t mean it’s any better or worse than from a big brand traditional cycling company.

If someone likes the idea of it being a fashion accessory then what’s the big deal? What categorises them as not being cyclists?

Let’s be fair, a lot of the discussions on here are about how a bike looks. If it didn’t matter, all of the bikes would be one colour and have the same shaped standard tubing.


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## Drago (8 Feb 2018)

Nice pedals.


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## hoopdriver (8 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> It doesn’t do it for me, but it might for someone else.
> 
> Just because it’s come from a fashion house doesn’t mean it’s any better or worse than from a big brand traditional cycling company.
> 
> ...


True. It may be a brilliant frame made by a top of the line maker. But the fashion house won’t be lending its name to the bike for free. You will be paying a hefty premium for having the Hermes name on the frame, no matter how good a frame it might actually be. That’s what I don’t really get - paying the premium simply to have the name of a fashion house on your bike. I don’t object to anyone doing that. It’s their money. I just don’t understand it.

And I certainly don’t mean to suggest they aren’t “cyclists”whatever that means. Just that this premium on fashion suggests a different relationship to bicycles and cycling than that which is usually expressed by people spending big on their dream bikes.


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## MichaelW2 (8 Feb 2018)

Parlee custom carbon frames go for about $7000. The build may be $3k with rohloff and fancy wheels. Can you really spend over $10k even if you wanted?


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## bpsmith (8 Feb 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> True. It may be a brilliant frame made by a top of the line maker. But the fashion house won’t be lending its name to the bike for free. You will be paying a hefty premium for having the Hermes name on the frame, no matter how good a frame it might actually be. That’s what I don’t really get - paying the premium simply to have the name of a fashion house on your bike. I don’t object to anyone doing that. It’s their money. I just don’t understand it.


I do get your point on not understanding it.

I think it boils down to what we all like the look of and also what we value based on the heritage of the brand. There’s an element of individuality to add into the mix and also a consideration as to what said person earns too.

Some people could argue that slapping Bianchi on a frame does exactly the same thing. I pick Bianchi as that is a brand that I like, rather than trying to offend anyone else.


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## screenman (8 Feb 2018)

I would like a little less sense, it seems in cycling terms only those with only a little sense have loads of dosh to splash around.


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## hoopdriver (8 Feb 2018)

There is a premium of some form attached to any marque. The premium here seems very, very high indeed and - unlike Bianchi, to use your example - not founded on any legacy or history or involvement with cycling whatever.


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## Drago (8 Feb 2018)

Of course, here in the UK the name Hermes is synonymous with a company that'll lose your parcel, and an unpleasant STD. People are thus less likely to pay for the name over here.


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## FishFright (8 Feb 2018)

More money than sense ? Don't be mean spirited, it's not your money or decision.


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## bpsmith (8 Feb 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> There is a premium of some form attached to any marque. The premium here seems very, very high indeed and - unlike Bianchi, to use your example - not founded on any legacy or history or involvement with cycling whatever.


That’s precisely why I used them in my example. Chalk and cheese in the traditional cycling world.

Also chalk and cheese in the fashion world, with some people having never heard of Bianchi.

Anyway, I don’t particularly like the look of that bike either, but I do understand why someone else might.


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## hoopdriver (8 Feb 2018)

Indeed the Hermes bike is more likely to appeal to those who have never heard of Bianchi or indeed any cycling marque.


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## Drago (8 Feb 2018)

The same people who moan about buyers of expensive bikes having more money than sense will themselves quite happily spend £300 or more a month on car finance to impress people they don't like.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

Oh my good god it turns out some people are willing to pay a premium fir style over substance. I really must past this revelation to my various friends in the fashion industry, motoring, cosmetics, food, electronics, restaurants, hotels so they can make use of this surprise discovery a cycle manufacturer has made.


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## MichaelW2 (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Oh my good god it turns out some people are willing to pay a premium fir style over substance. I really must past this revelation to my various friends in the fashion industry, motoring, cosmetics, food, electronics, restaurants, hotels so they can make use of this surprise discovery a cycle manufacturer has made.



The actual bike quite good, a Time frame, Shimano Alfine 11, sensible city accessories. The only daft thing is the price.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

MichaelW2 said:


> The actual bike quite good, a Time frame, Shimano Alfine 11, sensible city accessories. The only daft thing is the price.


The price is pitched at people who think £10K is not a lot of money. They exist and there's a market for them. Quite a big market actually as there's quite a lot of them.


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## hoopdriver (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Oh my good god it turns out some people are willing to pay a premium fir style over substance. I really must past this revelation to my various friends in the fashion industry, motoring, cosmetics, food, electronics, restaurants, hotels so they can make use of this surprise discovery a cycle manufacturer has made.


It is neither a surprise discovery, nor a bicycle manufacturer that as made it. 

People pay premiums for marques, fashion, style etc - given

What is unusual here - to my way of thinking - is the hefty premium being collected by a fashion house for a bicycle, when most people who were going to spend big money for a dream bike would probably have other touchstones than Hermes.


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## Cycleops (8 Feb 2018)

Style over substance? It hasn’t even got much of that and if you look in your local bike shop you’d find something very similar for a fraction of the price. All it’s got going for it is the name. When the owner tires of it and puts it Gumtree Mr Biggs might only give you a few hundred quid for it.


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## Milkfloat (8 Feb 2018)

Cycleops said:


> Style over substance? It hasn’t even got much of that and if you look in your local bike shop you’d find something very similar for a fraction of the price. All it’s got going for it is the name. When the owner tires of it and puts it Gumtree Mr Biggs might only give you a few hundred quid for it.



You are looking at it as a cyclist, not as a fan of Hermes who may find this amazing styling. Given the limited numbers produced, you may find actually the bike appreciates in value.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

Cycleops said:


> Style over substance? It hasn’t even got much of that and if you look in your local bike shop you’d find something very similar for a fraction of the price. All it’s got going for it is the name. When the owner tires of it and puts it Gumtree Mr Biggs might only give you a few hundred quid for it.


Not quite sure how many different ways I can say this but for some people they will be happy to pay an insignificant(to them) amount for a bike they like.

They won't care if they can get another cheaper if this is the one they want. They also will not care about the depreciation on selling it on eBay.


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## Globalti (8 Feb 2018)

The name of the bike is Flaneur, which means a dandy who hangs around a French city. Go figure.


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## Cycleops (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Not quite sure how many different ways I can say this but for some people they will be happy to pay an insignificant(to them) amount for a bike they like.
> 
> They won't care if they can get another cheaper if this is the one they want. They also will not care about the depreciation on selling it on eBay.


But why would they want this one? Visually it’s no different to hundreds of others, like I said it’s only the name. The filthy rich aren’t stupid and in my experience they even more likely to be tight with their money. They also know an overpriced item when they see it the same as you and me and if they truly wanted a commuter, because that’s what it is, they would look at the market and compare. Maybe they would still buy it but I doubt it. 
Hermes have done it as a marketing exercise to gain a bit of publicity.


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## MartyBenji (8 Feb 2018)

There's not even any mudguards


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## screenman (8 Feb 2018)

If anyone thinks this bike would be bought to ride then I imagine they may not be getting the point.


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## Cycleops (8 Feb 2018)

screenman said:


> If anyone thinks this bike would be bought to ride then I imagine they may not be getting the point.


True, I can imagine it being given as a gift at a corporate event to well healed perhaps horsy customers.


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## screenman (8 Feb 2018)

Cycleops said:


> True, I can imagine it being given as a gift at a corporate event to well healed perhaps horsy customers.



Or hung on a wall.


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## gavroche (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Would you spend a couple of hour’s earnings on a bike you really like? If you’re into bikes many would.


Couple of hours earnings? How much an hour do you get?


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## mustang1 (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> If it’s worth the money to those that can afford it, why not? What’s the point in earning money and paying taxes if you can’t spend it? Sticking it in an offshore savings account helps nobody. Spending it puts it back into the economy.


But I'm not sure what is special about this bike? It comes with that funny thing next to the chainrings. There has to be some thing, anything, that this bike has that another doesn't .Perhaps it has no-questions-asked theft insurance included in the price, or they will deliver the bike to your door and give you a bike fitting arrive in your house, or, well, just something.

But I don't see anything on the bike, or comes with the bike.

If there are two absolutely identical bikes, same material, same frame, same components, everything identical, but one has Aston Martin written on it and someone wants to pay £5k (or whatever) more for it, then at least that is something.

Bit on that orange bike, I don't see what features it has to justify the 13k tag. Other than that, I agree with what you say (if you have money then spend it on what you like etc).

Edit: aha, I take that back! Reading further down the thread, I see it has a fashion house brand name (I've not actually heard of Hermes but it does sound like a disease). There we go.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

gavroche said:


> Couple of hours earnings? How much an hour do you get?


A lot less than that. But there's plenty that do....and that's who the bike is marketed at.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

mustang1 said:


> But I'm not sure what is special about this bike? It comes with that funny thing next to the chainrings. There has to be some thing, anything, that this bike has that another doesn't .Perhaps it has no-questions-asked theft insurance included in the price, or they will deliver the bike to your door and give you a bike fitting arrive in your house, or, well, just something.
> 
> But I don't see anything on the bike, or comes with the bike.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just pretty. Go see how much a designer t-shirt costs against something in M&S. Probably same quality, same material, same factory even. Then compare the prices. Then tell me nobody buys designer clothes.


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## mustang1 (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Maybe it's just pretty. Go see how much a designer t-shirt costs against something in M&S. Probably same quality, same material, same factory even. Then compare the prices. Then tell me nobody buys designer clothes.



What if the two t-shirts are identical? But one has a brand name on it?


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## nickyboy (8 Feb 2018)

The price you pay for any premium branded good bears little relation to the cost of manufacture. You're paying for a lot more than the nuts and bolts. Everyone knows Hermes and what they stand for, that costs a lot and it gets recouped in the pricing

Good luck to them. If someone buys it and enjoys it that's fair enough for me


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## Cycleops (8 Feb 2018)

Let’s just remind ourselves of the typical Hermes customer wearing one of their products:


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

mustang1 said:


> What if the two t-shirts are identical? But one has a brand name on it?


Which is the scenario with many designer clothes. They are often identical save for a logo. People pay more for it.


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## gavroche (8 Feb 2018)

People's ego is their downfall and manufacturers / advertisers know how to use that to their advantage.


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## MiK1138 (8 Feb 2018)

I guess if you want it can afford it then why not. I was talking to a relation I haven't seen in a while and he told me he just bought himself a Ferrari F40, he didnt need it but he wanted it. so fair do's


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## MichaelW2 (8 Feb 2018)

mustang1 said:


> But I'm not sure what is special about this bike? It comes with that funny thing next to the chainrings. There has to be some thing, anything, that this bike has that another doesn't .Perhaps it has no-questions-asked theft insurance included in the price, or they will deliver the bike to your door and give you a bike fitting arrive in your house, or, well, just something.
> 
> But I don't see anything on the bike, or comes with the bike.


The frame is by Time, who knit their own carbon, it has sliding vertical rear dropouts which is a rare feature, as well as front mudguard eyelets on a high end carbon frame. The short wheelbase seat-tube cutout may do something...or not. The rear disk brake is is the wrong position for a utility bike that wears mudguards and panniers but I don't imagine I will see this one locked up at Aldi's on a rainy day. Ultra-prestige utility bikes are a logical disconnect even if they are very nice ones.


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## Tim Hall (8 Feb 2018)

All that aside, the chain guard is ugly. Really ugly. Burn it.


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## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> I can well understand someone spending serious money on a bicycle. But spending that kind of money on a bicycle designed by a fashion house? That seems odd. That is more bicycle-as-fashion-accessory than passion-for-cycling. As a cyclist _that _is something I cannot understand. The spending of serious money on a dream bike - sure!


I think that's my main gripe, it's a bike from a fashion house. I have no problem dropping over 10k on a new bike (other than having an available 10k), if it was a dream bike from a bike company.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> I think that's my main gripe, it's a bike from a fashion house. I have no problem dropping over 10k on a new bike (other than having an available 10k), if it was a dream bike from a bike company.


As crazy as it sounds, if you sell bikes to 4 million people, some, just some, might be choosing on style over function. And their style might be based on abstract likes rather than practical or current trends. Crazy I know. It might even catch on elsewhere.


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## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't like the bike? Don't like the price? Here's a suggestion: Move on, look at a bike that you _do _like and _can _afford.
> 
> Just a thought


Afford is not the problem. It's the complete lack of technical value, zero craft and minimal componetry that bugs me. The price is at least double its worth because of the name on the frame. 

Generally the folks I know who spend huge amounts of money on things, cars, TVs, watches (sorry time pieces), genuinely believe they are getting the best of the best. And enjoy showing off why their hand built custom exotic materialed, bejeweled technical master piece is worth ten times my comparable POS. And all strength to em for that. But this, nothing. Other than the name. I guess I don't understand pure bling.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Which is the scenario with many designer clothes. They are often identical save for a logo. People pay more for it.


Yes, they do - we've come full circle back to the post's title, 'More Money Than Sense'


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Yes, they do - we've come full circle back to the post's title, 'More Money Than Sense'


You've never bought anything that is supposedly better based on little other than the brand or how it looks? You buy all clothes at the lowest price seen at a market? You only buy the cheapest own brand product at supermarkets?


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## BoldonLad (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> Afford is not the problem. It's the complete lack of technical value, zero craft and minimal componetry that bugs me. *The price is at least double its worth* because of the name on the frame.
> 
> Generally the folks I know who spend huge amounts of money on things, cars, TVs, watches (sorry time pieces), genuinely believe they are getting the best of the best. And enjoy showing off why their hand built custom exotic materialed, bejeweled technical master piece is worth ten times my comparable POS. And all strength to em for that. But this, nothing. Other than the name. I guess I don't understand pure bling.



ANY product or service (and that includes houses), is worth what people will pay, no more, no less.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> You've never bought anything that is supposedly better based on little other than the brand or how it looks? You buy all clothes at the lowest price seen at a market? You only buy the cheapest own brand product at supermarkets?


How it looks has little to do with the brand. There is no reason good design must cost more, but I may pay more for better design. I buy very little based on brand. I do not buy clothing with logos. Why pay more to advertise on behalf of the brand? I try to buy the best quality within my budget, at the lowest price. For example when I buy long life skimmed milk I buy the 'budget' product - skimmed milk is skimmed milk is skimmed milk. Why pay double for the same product?


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> How it looks has little to do with the brand. There is no reason good design must cost more, but I may pay more for better design. I buy very little based on brand. I do not buy clothing with logos. Why pay more to advertise on behalf of the brand? I try to buy the best quality within my budget, at the lowest price. For example when I buy long life skimmed milk I buy the 'budget' product - skimmed milk is skimmed milk is skimmed milk. Why pay double for the same product?


So do you buy unbranded clothes at say M&S as opposed to the market which would be a 1/4 of the price? Do you think the M&S product is 4 times better? Will it last 4 times longer?


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## youngoldbloke (8 Feb 2018)

I haven't bought anything from M&S for many years as while their quality has dropped the price has increased. Other budget clothing from ASDA, Tesco and the like has become highly competitive. I have not bought clothing from markets, but would if the product appeared to be of reasonable quality. Too often 'branded' products are of no better quality or design than unbranded - of course you could argue that M&S, George at ASDA etc have become or are being promoted as brands in their own right. I have NO brand loyalty.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Feb 2018)

I would actually pay more for the 'same' tee shirt without the logo.


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## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

BoldonLad said:


> ANY product or service (and that includes houses), is worth what people will pay, no more, no less.


Agreed, but the only intrinsic value in this bike that would make it worth buying is its exclusivity. Which, yes, is often sufficient justification to buy anything. And maybe why I bought a Park Tool pizza cutter years back.

I guess I already know why folks would buy such a bike, but that doesn't make their decision (or mine to buy a Park Tools pizza cutter) any less risible.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> Agreed, but the only intrinsic value in this bike that would make it worth buying is its exclusivity. Which, yes, is often sufficient justification to buy anything. And maybe why I bought a Park Tool pizza cutter years back.
> 
> I guess I already know why folks would buy such a bike, but that doesn't make their decision (or mine to buy a Park Tools pizza cutter) any less risible.


What if they just liked the look of it?


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## nickyboy (8 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> It is a truth that we hold to be self-evident:
> Anyone who pays more for a bike than I paid for my bike, has more money than sense.
> Anyone who pays less is wasting their money on tat.
> I, and I alone, know the sweet spot of good value.



How true. There are millions of people in the world riding around on bikes that probably cost them £20 and they would look at most UK cyclists and say "more money than sense". Of course a UK cyclist would point to all sorts of wonderful aspects of their bikes to justify spending more than £20

But the same applies in reverse here. Some wealthy person (wealthy from our perspective, just like we are wealthy from most of the world's perspective) rides around on a bike we cannot see any justification for buying on a "value" basis. Just as most of the world would come to the same conclusion about the bikes we are riding around on


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## confusedcyclist (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> If it’s worth the money to those that can afford it, why not? What’s the point in earning money and paying taxes if you can’t spend it? Sticking it in an offshore savings account helps nobody. Spending it puts it back into the economy.


They actually tend to be offshore investment vehicles that minimise taxes on dividends and capital gains, rather than the kind of savings accounts that plebeians would utilise, so they are are helping others on a technicality, as investing in enterprise creates jobs and economic growth.

No need to thank me :P


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## Maenchi (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Would you spend a couple of hour’s earnings on a bike you really like? If you’re into bikes many would.


........?????????? a couple of HOURS ?


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## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> What if they just liked the look of it?


That's cool, their choice and my choice to ridicule/praise/ignore as I see fit.

My mum used to tell us that if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all. A Mark Twain quote I think and something I totally disagree with. For me, if I'm doing some stupid or buying something senseless I would like to know.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> That's cool, their choice and my choice to ridicule/praise/ignore as I see fit.
> 
> My mum used to tell us that if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all. A Mark Twain quote I think and something I totally disagree with. For me, if I'm doing some stupid or buying something senseless I would like to know.


Your op was doing something stupid, I thought you’d like to know. Just my choice to ridicule as I see fit of course.


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## jayonabike (8 Feb 2018)

Love these threads when they pop up every now and then. Someone can afford something and you can’t therefore they have more money than sense? Don’t make me laugh. If someone wants to drop 10 grand on something that gives them pleasure then why not. Whether it’s worth that amount is irrelevant.
People should accept what they have and some people have more than them and be happy with their lot.


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## FishFright (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> What if they just liked the look of it?



Liking things isn't good enough for the lower classes, they need feel the approval from other peasants that making an adequate purchase brings.


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## Markymark (8 Feb 2018)

FishFright said:


> Liking things isn't good enough for the lower classes, they need feel the approval from other peasants that making an adequate purchase brings.


I spend my money how I like. If I’m lucky I’ll not only enjoy what I like but annoy people too.


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## marzjennings (8 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Your op was doing something stupid, I thought you’d like to know. Just my choice to ridicule as I see fit of course.


Probably.

But my OP wasn't about affordability, as I said if you have it spend it. I just found this particular bicycle, if purchased as a bicycle rather than a fashion accessory, a monumental waste of cash. An emperors new bike. I wasn't saying one should spend less, but I was trying to say for that sort of money, oh the bike one could have built.


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## FishFright (8 Feb 2018)

marzjennings said:


> Probably.
> 
> But my OP wasn't about affordability, as I said if you have it spend it. I just found this particular bicycle, if purchased as a bicycle rather than a fashion accessory, a monumental waste of cash. A emperors new bike. I wasn't saying one should spend less, but I was trying to say for that sort of money, oh the bike one could have built.



Which would also be a monumental waste of cash, a emperors new bike too 99% of the population so .... what next ?


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Feb 2018)

Maenchi said:


> ........?????????? a couple of HOURS ?



Commission a top QC to do some work for you....


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## mustang1 (8 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Then they aren't identical


True that.


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## Maenchi (8 Feb 2018)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Commission a top QC to do some work for you....


ok..........................


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## NorthernDave (8 Feb 2018)

Would I buy that Hermes bike?

No, it looks bloody awful - in my opinion. I'm sure it will appeal to some but it does nothing for me, regardless of if its $130 or $13,000

But @simon.r posted some pics of this the other day, which apparently has a starting price of over £15k - and if I drop the big one on the EuroMillions one week, I think I might just get one, along with the car to attach it to.


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## Seevio (8 Feb 2018)

My mate Kevin has more money than sense and he's skint.


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## Cuchilo (8 Feb 2018)

Does the upturn at the end of the handlebars replicate the hoods on a road bike ? I see people riding this type of bike and do wonder why as riding the base bars on my TT bike is nasty on the wrists


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## tyred (8 Feb 2018)

I have neither money nor sense...


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## Tim Hall (9 Feb 2018)

Do many/any of these badged up bikes with hefty price tags actually get bought?


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## NorthernDave (9 Feb 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> Do many/any of these badged up bikes with hefty price tags actually get bought?



Not quite the same league, but in the mid 90s I was working at an Audi dealer when the Audi RS2 quattro* mountain bike was launched, costing a cool £1,000 - a very nice thing, but a lot of money for a bike back then.
We had one on display in the showroom for quite a while - I think it got worked into a deal for someone buying a new car in the end.

* - I think that was the name - if not that it was something similar.


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## bpsmith (9 Feb 2018)

You forgot the bit where they get asked to prove everything they say, via a link to a scientific study.


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## davidphilips (9 Feb 2018)

tyred said:


> I have neither money nor sense...




LOl, A lot of guys and girls dont any money, but very few have the sense to know they dont have any sense so you are better of than most?


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## davidphilips (9 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> You forgot the bit where they get asked to prove everything they say, via a link to a scientific study.



Funny that reminds me of a guy i cycle with , Any time i say something about a bike he asks me where i found it out from or can i prove it provide links etc, then if i say i seen something on the internet or utube he says do you believe every thing you see on the internet?


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## NorthernDave (9 Feb 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Funny that reminds me of a guy i cycle with , Any time i say something about a bike he asks me where i found it out from or can i prove it provide links etc, then if i say i seen something on the internet or utube he says do you believe every thing you see on the internet?



I get nearly all my facts from a bloke down the pub. Much more reliable.


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## bpsmith (9 Feb 2018)

I just lick my finger and decide based on the wind direction.


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## Gravity Aided (10 Feb 2018)

That Hermes bicycle looks suspiciously like a Specialized Sirrus with a chain guard.
(Not like I can afford a Specialized Sirrus)
((Nor to hang with that snooty lot down at the new showroom))
(((Feggin superior lot. Ubermenschen)))


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## Nomadski (10 Feb 2018)

Markymark said:


> Would you spend a couple of hour’s earnings on a bike you really like? If you’re into bikes many would.



A couple of hours earnings? Are you a Premier League footballer?


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2018)

Nomadski said:


> A couple of hours earnings? Are you a Premier League footballer?


I didn’t say it was me....


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Feb 2018)

Anything that costs 5 grand or more needs to have a petrol engine in it, otherwise you are getting mugged off!

Hermes should stick to fashion and Aston Martin should stick to making nice cars.


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anything that costs 5 grand or more needs to have a petrol engine in it, otherwise you are getting mugged off!
> 
> Hermes should stick to fashion and Aston Martin should stick to making nice cars.


and you should stick to looking in skips


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## StuAff (10 Feb 2018)

Arbitrarily chosen (and not that high) price= getting mugged off? Srsly? I could quite easily have spent more than £5k on a bike. And I'd be perfectly happy with it, thank you very much.


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## davidphilips (10 Feb 2018)

Anything that costs 5 grand or more needs to have a petrol engine in it, otherwise you are getting mugged off!

Should it not be the other way? If i was to spend 5k i would think i would have a lot more pleasure with it should last a life time whereas something with a petrol engine in it costing 5k would only last a few years,cost more to maintain and be nothing more than a means of transport?


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anything that costs 5 grand or more needs to have a petrol engine in it, otherwise you are getting mugged off!
> 
> Hermes should stick to fashion and Aston Martin should stick to making nice cars.


I have spent more than £5k on many many things. Some have engines. Some don’t. They’ve all brought me pleasure and I can afford them. The fact it annoys you makes them all the better for me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Feb 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Should it not be the other way? If i was to spend 5k i would think i would have a lot more pleasure with it should last a life time whereas something with a petrol engine in it costing 5k would only last a few years,cost more to maintain and be nothing more than a means of transport?



Once you get above the most basic quality level of any item, where there are major compromises made, there is very little direct relationship between price/quality/pleasure factors. If people bought one super-quality version of some object and then kept it forever, I might agree with your reasoning. But they generally don't - and "serious" cyclists are the worst lot going for incessantly chopping and changing from one very expensive bike to another very expensive bike just because something has appeared in a different colour scheme or with one minor component change to last year's model. The marketing people who work for the manufacturers must laugh long and loud at just how easily they can persuade people to buy a brand new version of something they already have a perfectly good example of, every year or two.
On the plus side though, all this fickle consumerism does keep the secondhand market supplied with stock to choose from.
I do know one thing though; the bloke driving his £5k car is a hell of a lot warmer and drier and more comfortable whilst travelling about in the crappy weather we've been getting lately, than the bloke riding around on a £5k bicycle. My view that very expensive bike buyers are getting mugged off remains unchanged.


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Once you get above the most basic quality level of any item, where there are major compromises made, there is very little direct relationship between price/quality/pleasure factors. If people bought one super-quality version of some object and then kept it forever, I might agree with your reasoning. But they generally don't - and "serious" cyclists are the worst lot going for incessantly chopping and changing from one very expensive bike to another very expensive bike just because something has appeared in a different colour scheme or with one minor component change to last year's model. The marketing people who work for the manufacturers must laugh long and loud at just how easily they can persuade people to buy a brand new version of something they already have a perfectly good example of, every year or two.
> On the plus side though, all this fickle consumerism does keep the secondhand market supplied with stock to choose from.
> I do know one thing though; the bloke driving his £5k car is a hell of a lot warmer and drier and more comfortable whilst travelling about in the crappy weather we've been getting lately, than the bloke riding around on a £5k bicycle. My view that very expensive bike buyers are getting mugged off remains unchanged.


John , I started to get messages from other skint people so decided to edit my message .
I have an i phone 5 i can donate to you to try and bring you back into the London fold . I also hire private bins you are welcome to have a scout about in to see if there is anything you would like .


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## screenman (10 Feb 2018)

Those that think it is about money are unlikely to be able to afford to buy it, without thinking very careful about it.


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## bpsmith (10 Feb 2018)

I just don’t get the saying tbh.

1. If you can’t afford to buy one then you just can’t buy one, whether you like it or not. Sadly, such is life.

2. If you can afford to buy one and you like it, and there’s no more important spend that you really should spend on first, then go for it.

3. If you have the cash, but don’t like it, then don’t buy one.

4. If you have the cash, but prefer to share it with others, then good on you and don’t buy one.

5. If you have the cash, like it, but it floats your boat more to see the money sitting in a bank account and you continue to do this with every item you fancy, then don’t buy one.

SURELY, the ONLY time you have “more money than sense” is actually Option 5!?!

Dying with a bank full of cash, is not a good way to go.

Similarly, living your life complaining that others can afford things that you really want too but then not using that time to try and earn the money to buy something you’d love, is just bonkers!

Don’t waste your lives complaining about others. Let them enjoy what they have worked hard for and either do the same or accept that these things don’t always make you happy and enjoy what you actually do have.

Remember, there’s always a trade off. Those who work to earn lots of money, often have to give up something else to do so. There are very few who have everything put on a plate for them, despite what some people think.

There are also some people who, no matter what they do, it just never works out. This may be down to physical or mental complications, or just sheer bad timing, or somewhere in the middle. Life is tough, but strangely enough most of these people rarely complain.


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Once you get above the most basic quality level of any item, where there are major compromises made, there is very little direct relationship between price/quality/pleasure factors. If people bought one super-quality version of some object and then kept it forever, I might agree with your reasoning. But they generally don't - and "serious" cyclists are the worst lot going for incessantly chopping and changing from one very expensive bike to another very expensive bike just because something has appeared in a different colour scheme or with one minor component change to last year's model. The marketing people who work for the manufacturers must laugh long and loud at just how easily they can persuade people to buy a brand new version of something they already have a perfectly good example of, every year or two.
> On the plus side though, all this fickle consumerism does keep the secondhand market supplied with stock to choose from.
> I do know one thing though; the bloke driving his £5k car is a hell of a lot warmer and drier and more comfortable whilst travelling about in the crappy weather we've been getting lately, than the bloke riding around on a £5k bicycle. My view that very expensive bike buyers are getting mugged off remains unchanged.


You assume people who buy >£5k bikes have one car and one bike. Bless.


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## Cuchilo (10 Feb 2018)

I can hide the IPhone in a bin if it helps .


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## davidphilips (10 Feb 2018)

Theres an old saying a fool and his money are easy parted, everyone makes mistakes but few have more money than sense at least not for long, but the big question remains would it be wise to buy a 5k bike?

My view is if you really like bikes and have somewhere safe to keep it and the funds then yes why not? A new bike costing £100 from a supermarket may do for short runs around town, A 1k bike may last and go just as well as a 5k bike but life is short and 5k may seem a fortune to some but i know guys that smoke or drink that in a year so to me the 5k bike would be a much better spend than either.

Every one to there own view, any one on a bike should it be a freebie from freecycle or a new expensive bike to me has made a good move just enjoy cycling and reap the health benefits and join the club of not endangered species but species in danger.


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## Justinslow (10 Feb 2018)

I can just see Alexis Sanchez pootling around on that......


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## Justinslow (10 Feb 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Funny that reminds me of a guy i cycle with , Any time i say something about a bike he asks me where i found it out from or can i prove it provide links etc, then if i say i seen something on the internet or utube he says do you believe every thing you see on the internet?


Errrr yes, particularly here.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> I just don’t get the saying tbh.



I understand the saying perfectly. Essentially it's about people who have decent money coming in, but don't spend it wisely or strive for any value for money in their spending. They just waste money and spend frivolously and have very little to show for it after it's been spent.
For example, I know people who spend money like water; they run expensive cars, go on expensive holidays, buy expensive clothes etc - BUT, and here's a big but, they still live in rented accommodation, have no financial investments, no private pension, and bugger all savings in the bank. Some are seriously in debt and spend a fortune on loan/CC interest repayments. Their existence is all about projecting a certain image of wealth, but it's an illusion, in reality they haven't got a pot to pee in that actually belongs to them. On the other hand, you could be forgiven for thinking I was living hand to mouth, because I don't splash cash around, whereas I do have my own paid-for house, investments, pension, and savings. I'm happy to spend on the right things but if and only if, I believe that what I'm spending on offers VFM and the thing I'm buying has some intrinsic value.


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## Justinslow (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I understand the saying perfectly. Essentially it's about people who have decent money coming in, but don't spend it wisely or strive for any value for money in their spending. They just waste money and spend frivolously and have very little to show for it after it's been spent.
> For example, I know people who spend money like water; they run expensive cars, go on expensive holidays, buy expensive clothes etc - BUT, and here's a big but, they still live in rented accommodation, have no financial investments, no private pension, and bugger all savings in the bank. Some are seriously in debt and spend a fortune on loan/CC interest repayments. Their existence is all about projecting a certain image of wealth, but it's an illusion, in reality they haven't got a pot to pee in that actually belongs to them. On the other hand, you could be forgiven for thinking I was living hand to mouth, because I don't splash cash around, whereas I do have my own paid-for house, investments, pension, and savings. I'm happy to spend on the right things but if and only if, I believe that what I'm spending on offers VFM and the thing I'm buying has some intrinsic value.


That’s what’s known as a “tightwad” 

I’m not too dissimilar to you, in fact if I do make any sort of purchase I tend to over analyse for days even weeks before buying, then after buying feel incredibly guilty about it.
If I couldn’t see “value” in what I’m buying I just can’t do it.


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## screenman (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I understand the saying perfectly. Essentially it's about people who have decent money coming in, but don't spend it wisely or strive for any value for money in their spending. They just waste money and spend frivolously and have very little to show for it after it's been spent.
> For example, I know people who spend money like water; they run expensive cars, go on expensive holidays, buy expensive clothes etc - BUT, and here's a big but, they still live in rented accommodation, have no financial investments, no private pension, and bugger all savings in the bank. Some are seriously in debt and spend a fortune on loan/CC interest repayments. Their existence is all about projecting a certain image of wealth, but it's an illusion, in reality they haven't got a pot to pee in that actually belongs to them. On the other hand, you could be forgiven for thinking I was living hand to mouth, because I don't splash cash around, whereas I do have my own paid-for house, investments, pension, and savings. I'm happy to spend on the right things but if and only if, I believe that what I'm spending on offers VFM and the thing I'm buying has some intrinsic value.



What if you earned 5x times as much as you do now?


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## youngoldbloke (11 Feb 2018)

I see little point in spending more money than you need to - even if you have lots of it - back to my point about long life milk - why waste money paying double for the same product?


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## screenman (11 Feb 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> I see little point in spending more money than you need to - even if you have lots of it - back to my point about long life milk - why waste money paying double for the same product?



What are you going to do with your millions?


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I understand the saying perfectly. Essentially it's about people who have decent money coming in, but don't spend it wisely or strive for any value for money in their spending. They just waste money and spend frivolously and have very little to show for it after it's been spent.
> For example, I know people who spend money like water; they run expensive cars, go on expensive holidays, buy expensive clothes etc - BUT, and here's a big but, they still live in rented accommodation, have no financial investments, no private pension, and bugger all savings in the bank. Some are seriously in debt and spend a fortune on loan/CC interest repayments. Their existence is all about projecting a certain image of wealth, but it's an illusion, in reality they haven't got a pot to pee in that actually belongs to them. On the other hand, you could be forgiven for thinking I was living hand to mouth, because I don't splash cash around, whereas I do have my own paid-for house, investments, pension, and savings. I'm happy to spend on the right things but if and only if, I believe that what I'm spending on offers VFM and the thing I'm buying has some intrinsic value.


I know some rich people who spend lots of cash as well as owning houses, have investments and pensions. There’s quite a lot like that. Probably who the bike is marketed at.


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## bpsmith (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I understand the saying perfectly. Essentially it's about people who have decent money coming in, but don't spend it wisely or strive for any value for money in their spending. They just waste money and spend frivolously and have very little to show for it after it's been spent.
> For example, I know people who spend money like water; they run expensive cars, go on expensive holidays, buy expensive clothes etc - BUT, and here's a big but, they still live in rented accommodation, have no financial investments, no private pension, and bugger all savings in the bank. Some are seriously in debt and spend a fortune on loan/CC interest repayments. Their existence is all about projecting a certain image of wealth, but it's an illusion, in reality they haven't got a pot to pee in that actually belongs to them. On the other hand, you could be forgiven for thinking I was living hand to mouth, because I don't splash cash around, whereas I do have my own paid-for house, investments, pension, and savings. I'm happy to spend on the right things but if and only if, I believe that what I'm spending on offers VFM and the thing I'm buying has some intrinsic value.


So, based on your explanation, they actually don’t have more money than sense.

With respect to the way that you’re careful with your cash, there’s admiration in that whilst at the same time some people might think you actually have more money than sense by not enjoying it.

My point is, there is a happy medium surely, where you don’t spend beyond your means but that you also enjoy your earnings.

I know that you will reply stating that you do enjoy what you have, but we are discussing how others perceive you to be, when it comes to the title of this thread. Don’t judge others as you wouldn’t be expected to be judged yourself.


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## BoldonLad (11 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> ........., when it comes to the title of this thread. Don’t judge others as you wouldn’t be expected to be judged yourself.



Quite! Each to their own, who cares what anyone else thinks?


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## screenman (11 Feb 2018)

What is a lot of money?


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## JhnBssll (11 Feb 2018)

I had quite a lengthy discussion recently with a group of friends about our financial situations - it very rarely happens that people open up about money so it was quite refreshing. It was also very interesting to see that between the 8 of us there were very few similarities in how we earned, spent and saved our money.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a very personal decision and there really is no right or wrong way to do it as long as you maintain a roof over your head and running water..! Our household has a decent income but we've still got some debts - does that stop me buying new things? Within reason, no. Would some others disapprove of our spending habits? Yes, and a few of our friends are quick to take the mick  Do I care? Absolutely not  I work very hard for my salary, as does my wife. If I want to buy a remote control monster truck on a whim I will jolly well do so 













vanessa's lunchbox



__ JhnBssll
__ 11 Feb 2018
__ 3


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## bpsmith (11 Feb 2018)

I always wanted one of those as a kid @JhnBssll, but my parents just simply didn’t have the cash. I did have a cheaper alternative which I loved nonetheless. Did I rubbish anyone who had the real thing? No. Would I still like the real thing? Definitely!

Enjoy what makes you happy!


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## Gravity Aided (11 Feb 2018)

JhnBssll said:


> I had quite a lengthy discussion recently with a group of friends about our financial situations - it very rarely happens that people open up about money so it was quite refreshing. It was also very interesting to see that between the 8 of us there were very few similarities in how we earned, spent and saved our money.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a very personal decision and there really is no right or wrong way to do it as long as you maintain a roof over your head and running water..! Our household has a decent income but we've still got some debts - does that stop me buying new things? Within reason, no. Would some others disapprove of our spending habits? Yes, and a few of our friends are quick to take the mick  Do I care? Absolutely not  I work very hard for my salary, as does my wife. If I want to buy a remote control monster truck on a whim I will jolly well do so
> 
> ...


Speaking of skips and such, before they had bins in our area, I found a remote control car, very nice, and the remote control once on trash day. I still have it, until it can get made into guidance for something more my style.





Susan Constant.
I have a book of plans, and the history of her replication.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2018)

Justinslow said:


> That’s what’s known as a “tightwad” .



No, there's an important difference between frugality based on VFM criteria and being downright miserly, just for the sake of not spending anything. I don't see any point in depriving myself of say, a nice meal and a few beers just so I can swell my bank balance by a relatively trivial sum. All you achieve by doing that is have a miserable standard of living when you don't actually need to. What I never do though, is spend frivolously, or pay what I consider an excessive or even rip-off price for something. If I'm happy I'm getting a deal, new or used, I'll spend the cash. If I think it's a fantasy price that bears no relation to an item's true worth, I sit on my hands and let someone else get ripped off.

Screenman, I daresay if I earned 5 times what I do, I would have a somewhat more casual attitude to discretionary spending - but only to an extent. If you have an inherently frugal nature, originally driven by necessity, suddenly having much more disposable income is not going to radically change one's conception of what is good value, and if I'm not getting perceived good value, the cash stays in my pocket. The absurd Hermes road bike would not find a customer in me, no matter how much I could afford. Most ordinary mortals rightfully regard those people who spend silly amounts just for a brand name, as complete idiots and sad fashion victims. I would sooner get ribbed for pulling something out of a skip than get ridiculed for spending thousands on something just for the designer name.


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## Gravity Aided (11 Feb 2018)

I mostly like to support my hobby my self, through sales and service and work at the co-op. I have some pretty nice machines for a hobbyist living in the Midwest United States, but all have been bought with money or trade the bicycles have brought in.
This does 2 things:
1-pays for the bicycles, and 
2-keeps me in a network where I am the first to learn of anything coming up in terms of trades and such.


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No, there's an important difference between frugality based on VFM criteria and being downright miserly, just for the sake of not spending anything. I don't see any point in depriving myself of say, a nice meal and a few beers just so I can swell my bank balance by a relatively trivial sum. All you achieve by doing that is have a miserable standard of living when you don't actually need to. What I never do though, is spend frivolously, or pay what I consider an excessive or even rip-off price for something. If I'm happy I'm getting a deal, new or used, I'll spend the cash. If I think it's a fantasy price that bears no relation to an item's true worth, I sit on my hands and let someone else get ripped off.
> 
> Screenman, I daresay if I earned 5 times what I do, I would have a somewhat more casual attitude to discretionary spending - but only to an extent. If you have an inherently frugal nature, originally driven by necessity, suddenly having much more disposable income is not going to radically change one's conception of what is good value, and if I'm not getting perceived good value, the cash stays in my pocket. The absurd Hermes road bike would not find a customer in me, no matter how much I could afford. Most ordinary mortals rightfully regard those people who spend silly amounts just for a brand name, as complete idiots and sad fashion victims. I would sooner get ribbed for pulling something out of a skip than get ridiculed for spending thousands on something just for the designer name.


Why do you assume it’s beung bought for the name? Maybe soomeone thinks it’s well made, looks nice and couldn’t care less about the price tag? People buy things fir different reasons. There must be several million people with bikes in the U.K. plenty will buy on aesthetics and fir those who dint bother worrying about price tags, this will rock some people’s boat. 

I’m glad it annoys you though.


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## youngoldbloke (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No, there's an important difference between frugality based on VFM criteria and being downright miserly, just for the sake of not spending anything. I don't see any point in depriving myself of say, a nice meal and a few beers just so I can swell my bank balance by a relatively trivial sum. All you achieve by doing that is have a miserable standard of living when you don't actually need to. What I never do though, is spend frivolously, or pay what I consider an excessive or even rip-off price for something. If I'm happy I'm getting a deal, new or used, I'll spend the cash. If I think it's a fantasy price that bears no relation to an item's true worth, I sit on my hands and let someone else get ripped off.
> 
> Screenman, I daresay if I earned 5 times what I do, I would have a somewhat more casual attitude to discretionary spending - but only to an extent. If you have an inherently frugal nature, originally driven by necessity, suddenly having much more disposable income is not going to radically change one's conception of what is good value, and if I'm not getting perceived good value, the cash stays in my pocket. The absurd Hermes road bike would not find a customer in me, no matter how much I could afford. Most ordinary mortals rightfully regard those people who spend silly amounts just for a brand name, as complete idiots and sad fashion victims. I would sooner get ribbed for pulling something out of a skip than get ridiculed for spending thousands on something just for the designer name.


Spot on!


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## Cuchilo (11 Feb 2018)

I find it interesting that for someone who calls himself frugal he finds spending money on cars , alcohol and eating out good value for money .


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> I find it interesting that for someone who calls himself frugal he finds spending money on cars , alcohol and eating out good value for money .



All those things above are far better value in terms of what enjoyment you get for your money than buying expensive high end road bikes! I see no meaningful benefit to owning a bike that cost £10k rather than owning one that cost £1k or less. You're paying £9k extra to save maybe a pound or two in weight, and that's about it! I'd sooner put the £9k I'd have left over to better use on other things that would give me an overall higher standard of living, such as having a nice warm car to drive around in - whilst the cyclist who doesn't drive cars is getting blown all over the road by gusts of wind and his face pelted with hailstones, like during the crap weather earlier this afternoon!


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## JhnBssll (11 Feb 2018)

And that's absolutely fine  We're all different 

For example I used to love spending money on beer but I've now been teetotal for 18 months for health reasons. I don't smoke either so have plenty of spare money to splash on bicycles


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## Cuchilo (11 Feb 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> All those things above are far better value in terms of what enjoyment you get for your money than buying expensive high end road bikes! I see no meaningful benefit to owning a bike that cost £10k rather than owning one that cost £1k or less. You're paying £9k extra to save maybe a pound or two in weight, and that's about it! I'd sooner put the £9k I'd have left over to better use on other things that would give me an overall higher standard of living, such as having a nice warm car to drive around in - whilst the cyclist who doesn't drive cars is getting blown all over the road by gusts of wind and his face pelted with hailstones, like during the crap weather earlier this afternoon!


I think that's where we differ and you dont want to understand that . Setting the bar at your own standards and everyone else is getting ripped off if they dont agree with you .
I find eating out and having a few beers a waste of money as i'm a pretty good cook and beer is beer  So i would need to go to a place where the chef is pretty bloody good for me to enjoy the food . With that is a ("rip off cost " as you would call it ) I would rather do that or cook myself .
I was out today on my TT bike training for the summer races . Yes it was cold and hailing but i loved it as i have clothes that keep me warm . I also had a bit of banter with about 5 or 6 other people out in it all having great fun .
Would i have gone out today for a drive . NO ! 
This afternoon i rode to the fish mongers about 5 miles away . The weather was still crap as you know but i would rather ride through the nature reserve than sit in traffic .


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## screenman (11 Feb 2018)

Nature reserve? where is that. OT I know sorry.


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## Cuchilo (11 Feb 2018)

screenman said:


> Nature reserve? where is that. OT I know sorry.


The "friends of the river crane " Have massive funding now and pushing it further .


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## bpsmith (12 Feb 2018)

I love the fact that you are so concerned with “VFM” that you missed the fact that you’ve paid 2 or 3 times the price for those beers, when you could have saved considerably by drinking alone at home @SkipdiverJohn.

In fact, you could even have brewed some with contents sourced from your neighbours bin and saved more.


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> I love the fact that you are so concerned with “VFM” that you missed the fact that you’ve paid 2 or 3 times the price for those beers, when you could have saved considerably by drinking alone at home @SkipdiverJohn.
> 
> In fact, you could even have brewed some with contents sourced from your neighbours bin and saved more.



Drinking at home is not very sociable though, is it? I limit that to the odd bottle with my food, I'd never demolish a whole six-pack in one go whilst watching the footy on TV, that's not my thing. And if you like decent proper beer, rather than chemical fizz, it's not always that much cheaper to drink it indoors than down the pub.

As for making home-brew from old potato peelings, I'll leave that to those who are detained at Her Majesty's pleasure and don't have any other choice!


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## youngoldbloke (12 Feb 2018)

Anyway if you think that bike's a waste of money what about their handbags?


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Feb 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Anyway if you think that bike's a waste of money what about their handbags?



As a bloke, I consider ALL handbags to be a waste of money! That's why we have pockets.


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## roadrash (12 Feb 2018)

wow , some people really can not understand another persons view, you have to see things my way or your wrong


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