# Would a modern lighter bike make me cycle faster



## johnnyb47 (11 Aug 2018)

Hi and hope your all well.
Currently my daily ride is an early steel framed Peugeot road bike weighing in at around 13 kg,s. It's now covered many thousands of miles of trouble free cycling with its simple design of friction gears and rock solid frame ,but curiosity is now starting to get the better of me of how much better would a new bike be. About three years back I decided to dip my toe back into cycling again and simply just got out there riding solo around the country side with the soul intent to lose weight and live a better overall lifestyle. As time's gone by though ,cycling has evolved into doing bigger challenges and becoming more sociable with other cyclists. I can quite happily ride all day long on my Peugeot without feeling to fatigued at around 16/17 mph avg, which ain't to shabby:-)
Just the over day I did a charity ride of around 60 miles with around 170 other cyclists. At the start of the ride I was doing the usual admiring look around of all the nice bikes on display and soon came to the conclusion that my bike was hopelessly out classed by modern standards. Carbon framed bikes, and the absence of down tube shifters made my old steel bike look very retro indeed. At the time I thought these other cyclists where going to eat me for breakfast within a few miles of setting off.
To my surprise though this wasn't the case. For the first 20 miles i kept up quite comfortably somewhere at the front, and when the hills started to get more aggressive many of the group started to get dropped. Bearing in mind even though it was a charity ride, it still turned into a good natured race between us. Eventually I slowly got dropped climbing over the steep hills of Wales by these guys on there super lightweight bikes and modern gears. I did manage to get back around 15/20th down on the leaders a bait completely knackered lol. 
So it begs the question would a more modern lighter bike make that much of a difference?. Would a 13kg bike be that much slower than an modern 11 kg Carrera Vanquish disc braked road bike currently tempted with at the moment. As for the charity ride I thoroughly enjoyed it and made many new friends along the way. Its a great way to raise money for the needy whilst enjoying something by getting out there with others who also embrace pedal power :-)


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## RoubaixCube (11 Aug 2018)

I'd say definitely yes. You will definitely notice it when climbing hills at least. 2kg is quite a substantial amount.

I think you're better of spending your money on a triban though


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## Smokin Joe (11 Aug 2018)

Yes.

By how much, who knows? But strap a 2kg bag of sugar onto your current bike and you will notice the weight, particularly when climbing.


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## Grant Fondo (11 Aug 2018)

Plenty of cheap road bikes under 10kg...don't like Carreras myself...whats the budget?


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## Brandane (11 Aug 2018)

From my own experience, having treated myself to a carbon framed Merida Ride 4000 early this year.... A lighter bike (8.3 kg according to Merida) is really only an advantage going up hills. Coming down them, obviously the heavier the better (my fastest ever speed on a bike was on a fully laden tourer going down a long hill somewhere on The Way of the Roses). We do have a lot of hilly routes in my local area, so I considered it a worthwhile purchase. My average speed on the Merida tends to vary between 15/17 mph; whereas on my steel framed Genesis Croix de Fer it's about 13/15 mph... So not a great deal of difference but having said that I am too lazy to really push myself on any bike! I prefer to enjoy the ride and appreciate cycling for what it is.
The advantages of the Merida and it's carbon frame are not just about speed though. It gives a nicer ride, which is harder to explain. Maybe it's the different geometry, frame material, wheels, groupset, etc. which all combine to give a better handling and nicer bike to ride. But I still won't part with the Genesis; I love riding it too (and the 3 others!).


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## Salty seadog (11 Aug 2018)

You'll notice it uphill. Other than that It's all about the engine.

That's you tubs. ...


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## ianrauk (11 Aug 2018)

Everyone needs more then one bike anyway


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## NorthernDave (11 Aug 2018)

Don't forget though, that while you were admiring all those modern bikes, I'll bet a fair number of other riders were thinking "I wish I had a bike like that splendid Peugeot".


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## Cycleops (11 Aug 2018)

Sure it'll make you faster and more attractive to women. I'm not gonna give you any reason not to.


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## johnnyb47 (11 Aug 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Plenty of cheap road bikes under 10kg...don't like Carreras myself...whats the budget?





Grant Fondo said:


> Plenty of cheap road bikes under 10kg...don't like Carreras myself...whats the budget?


Hi Buddy. I,m budgeting around £300/£400 to be honest.


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## Grant Fondo (11 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Hi Buddy. I,m budgeting around £300/£400 to be honest.


Cheaper and lighter than Carrera?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/fuji-sportif-2-5-road-bike-2018/rp-prod166347


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## johnnyb47 (11 Aug 2018)

Just having a look around the classifieds on the internet I've spotted a rather nice looking Giant defy 5 selling for £100. The choice out there is mind boggling to say the least :-)


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## Cycleops (11 Aug 2018)

Plenty of bargains to be had second hand. How about this;
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/...oad-commuter-touring-bike-upgraded/1309319132

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/specialized-allez-road-bike-2014-model-56-cm/1308773229


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## HLaB (11 Aug 2018)

It doesn't get the best of reviews on BRadar for a similar price I'd check out BTwin from Decathlon.

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/carrera-vanquish-disc-review-51885/

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/btwin-triban-520-review-51887/

Edit: I've got the 500 it was £350 and fits your budget. I'll never use the tripple but IMO it'd invaluable for Wales :-)


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## vickster (11 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Just having a look around the classifieds on the internet I've spotted a rather nice looking Giant defy 5 selling for £100. The choice out there is mind boggling to say the least :-)


I'd be asking to see the receipt for that one!


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## tom73 (11 Aug 2018)

I have a carbon bike in fact it's my 1st road bike having just got bitten by the cycling bug. I wanted a light weight bike having had heavy lumps in the past. I also wanted a bike I was happy to ride and boy do like this one. Like others have said you will notice it on the hills. Your current one sound's the business bet it turns a few heads.  You clearly like and enjoy it. Sound's like it put's a smile on your face too. If getting a carbon bike will put even a bigger smile on your face and you have the funds go for it and enjoy. Sounds like you'd get use from having two bikes for sure.


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## tom73 (11 Aug 2018)

Cycleops said:


> Sure it'll make you faster and more attractive to women. I'm not gonna give you any reason not to.


 
 Dont tell everyone Mrs73 maybe about


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## johnnyb47 (11 Aug 2018)

Thank you all for your positive and interesting posts. The advice here is always an invaluable source of information to me :-)


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## simonali (11 Aug 2018)

I remember when I was more of a full time cyclist, but not so well off and did the London to Brighton a few times. There were plenty of people who had bikes much nicer than mine, but when we got to any uphill bits I was having to climb twice as far, due to zig-zagging around all these rich twats pushing their 5 grand Cannondales up the hill!


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## Grant Fondo (11 Aug 2018)

tom73 said:


> I have a carbon bike in fact it's my 1st road bike having just got bitten by the cycling bug. I wanted a light weight bike having had heavy lumps in the past. I also wanted a bike I was happy to ride and boy do like this one. Like others have said you will notice it on the hills. Your current one sound's the business bet it turns a few heads.  You clearly like and enjoy it. Sound's like it put's a smile on your face too. If getting a carbon bike will put even a bigger smile on your face and you have the funds go for it and enjoy. Sounds like you'd get use from having two bikes for sure.


Ribble do one under 9kg for £650
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-evo-pro-tiagra-clearance-bike/


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## tom73 (11 Aug 2018)

Very true they have and free saddle bag bundle too with every bike till Sunday. Not my bike but I have seen on up close they are a good bike. As for the free bundle I have one plus a few extra bits not too bad for quality all round the bag is well made too much bigger than you think


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## vickster (11 Aug 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Ribble do one under 9kg for £650
> https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-evo-pro-tiagra-clearance-bike/


As long as you’re under 5’5...


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## Grant Fondo (11 Aug 2018)

vickster said:


> As long as you’re under 5’5...


Yeah i didn't clock that


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## biggs682 (11 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Hi Buddy. I,m budgeting around £300/£400 to be honest.



How about this Ribble alloy road bike 56cm REDUCED £300


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## vickster (11 Aug 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Yeah i didn't clock that


And are there really people riding XS or S bikes who need a 44cm bar?!


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## vickster (11 Aug 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Ribble do one under 9kg for £650
> https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-evo-pro-tiagra-clearance-bike/


Could be one for @User46386 based on her new bike thread


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## TonySJ (11 Aug 2018)

I have a btwin triban 520 , the older black and red one, as a winter bike and it's really good value for what you pay new. Mine was second hand having only done 15 miles for £230. The guy I bought it off still has a identical bike in XL size for sale but he's in Chesterfield Derbyshire so probably too far to travel.
My summer carbon bike is lighter but if I were you I'd buy a triban, check gumtree out as there's plenty of cheaper bikes on there, or a lightly used one and check folks in here for their advice. 
Just enjoy the New feel of a different bike as I'm sure you will like it.


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## Levo-Lon (11 Aug 2018)

HLaB said:


> It doesn't get the best of reviews on BRadar for a similar price I'd check out BTwin from Decathlon.
> 
> https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/carrera-vanquish-disc-review-51885/
> 
> ...




lot of bike for a monkey


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## Shortandcrisp (11 Aug 2018)

Don’t think a saving of 2-3kg bike weight is gonna make you climb any faster. The bike is a very small part of the overall package.
What makes a slight difference in my opinion is the frame material. Carbon is usually stiffer than other materials and allows for faster acceleration and therefore faster hill climbing.


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## Drago (11 Aug 2018)

To answer the thread title, I doubt it'll make you faster to any noteworthy degree. However, it may make you smile a lot, which is itself a good reason to buy it if you fancy.


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## vickster (11 Aug 2018)

meta lon said:


> lot of bike for a monkey


Didn't know monkeys generally ride bikes?


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## Smokin Joe (11 Aug 2018)

Shortandcrisp said:


> Don’t think a saving of 2-3kg bike weight is gonna make you climb any faster. The bike is a very small part of the overall package.
> What makes a slight difference in my opinion is the frame material. Carbon is usually stiffer than other materials and allows for faster acceleration and therefore faster hill climbing.


Two to three kilos is going to make far more difference to your climbing than the little bit of extra stiffness you get from a carbon frame. Modern thinking seems to be moving to the opinion that stiffness in a frame is an over-rated trait anyway.


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## Shortandcrisp (11 Aug 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Two to three kilos is going to make far more difference to your climbing than the little bit of extra stiffness you get from a carbon frame. Modern thinking seems to be moving to the opinion that stiffness in a frame is an over-rated trait anyway.



You could be right although I’m not sure. Rider + steel bike = 90kg, versus rider + carbon bike = 87kg. Is that really gonna matter that much - and the heavier you are the less it will.

Agree about the carbon stiffness thing to a degree. Modern bikes have simply become too stiff for the average punter. I had a Cervelo S3 for a while. So stiff I generally felt that I didn’t have the fitness or power to make it work properly, although that doesn’t change my opinion that carbon does offer some benefits for climbing.


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## fossyant (11 Aug 2018)

2 x 9kg steel road bikes here from the early 90's. The modern stuff isn't faster. But, N+1 is the answer.


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## simonali (11 Aug 2018)

vickster said:


> Didn't know monkeys generally ride bikes?




View: https://youtu.be/CwexQZdrFmM


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## Crook Town AFC (11 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Hi and hope your all well.
> Currently my daily ride is an early steel framed Peugeot road bike weighing in at around 13 kg,s....


Just caught up with the discussion and by coincidence I'd just finished listening to a podcast where this type of topic was discussed. Might be worth a listen, it's a few years old but just as relevant.
I have nothing to do with said podcast, I came across it when I was looking for TdF podcasts other than Bespoke and the ITV TdF podcast last month.
Look on iTunes for the *VeloNews Podcast* then find *Fast* *Talk, Ep. 5: What would you do with $2,000?* Talk was of lighter bikes but also of better wheels (probably not on a classic), getting a professional bike fit and even choosing a better saddle, all to improve overall performance.

Regards

Dave


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## midliferider (11 Aug 2018)

There was a very interesting experiment carried out by a doctor and published in the British medical journal. Here is how it was reported by the BBC and other newspapers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11958903


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## midliferider (11 Aug 2018)

I have done my own experiment, doing the same route in roughly similar conditions over the weekend in 4 different bikes. It is 30 mile ride. I found that I am fastest in my carbon cube 16.7 miles per hour. Next is btwin triban 3 at 15.5 miles per hour, then two hybrids specialized sirus at about 13.5.
But I always find the triban more comfortable, perhaps it is a better fit than the cube.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

Brilliant posts and thank you all for your input. It seems there's a much degree of views on this, but on balance a lighter more modern bike seems to be the way to go to gain slight gains in extra overall average speed, especially when hills are involved. Call me old fashioned but I do like older bike styles. I can spend hours on end polishing old style aluminium brake levers etc to an inch of there life and admire the bright colours that old retro bikes were once painted in. Modern Bikes of today often come in more subdued colours and the components are less likely to be made of raw polished aluminium that gives a bike that extra quality look of days gone by. On the flip side though , modern day bikes may well look generally understated but there far more efficient and user friendly. Horses for course :-).Since taking up cycling again I've manage to lose around 2.5 stone in weight and would still like to lose another stone. I'm currently weighing in around 88 kg at 6ft tall. At the moment I'm starting to think it would be cheaper and more beneficial to lose another one of my six bellies and five chins as to spending £££s on a bike a few kg,s lighter. Maybe after losing a little more weight I should then consider a lighter bike to propel my ageing body along the roads a little faster. At the moment I've still got scope to lose weight and when I've reached my ideal weight I can look at other ways of saving weight as in a lighter more modern bike :-) :-) :-)


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## freiston (12 Aug 2018)

Here's a video exploring the difference that weight (and money) makes:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4MIEkIBZs


And here's a bit of reading on the subject:

https://www.velopress.com/bike-weight-and-the-myth-of-fast-bikes/


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## Globalti (12 Aug 2018)

My BIL is a cyclist similar to the OP, doggedly sticking to his old school steel bike with downtube shifters, leather saddle etc. etc. 

We persuaded him to come to York for the Cyclist magazine track day where he test-rode lots of exotic carbon bikes and a couple of alloy ones too. Next thing we knew, he had bought a Specialized Roubaix. "How do you like it?" I asked him. "Still getting the setup sorted but I'm easily ten percent faster on my regular rides" was his reply.


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## screenman (12 Aug 2018)

simonali said:


> I remember when I was more of a full time cyclist, but not so well off and did the London to Brighton a few times. There were plenty of people who had bikes much nicer than mine, but when we got to any uphill bits I was having to climb twice as far, due to zig-zagging around all these rich twats pushing their 5 grand Cannondales up the hill!



Nasty term to use, more successful in the earning stakes than you would have been better.


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## Milkfloat (12 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> At the moment I'm starting to think it would be cheaper and more beneficial to lose another one of my six bellies and five chins as to spending £££s on a bike a few kg,s lighter.



Why not do both? A new bike would provide even more motivation to get out riding. You are also approaching a good time of the year to find bargains.


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## IanSmithCSE (12 Aug 2018)

Good morning,

I might be the only one but I would say don’t do it. 

The main reason being that as you are already riding a lot of miles I suspect that you may be disappointed with bikes in the price range that you have indicated.

They are all entry level models so would be offering very little in way of upgrades from what you already have excepting frame wright, and possibly wheel weight.

Unfortunately the various fora are full of stories about new cheap wheels having a short working life.

Having an extra gear or two may be nice.

For years I have been riding a 531 Ribble with downtube shifters and 8sp but reasonably well spec’ed, mostly Ultegra/NOS 600 or 105, this weighed in at around 24lbs.

The whole STI shifters, and aluminium/carbon frame thing passed me by and I was quite happy but recently I was wondering what I was missing and bought a second hand but virtually unused Carbon framed thingie with 10spd Ultegra DI2 which comes in at 18lbs.

For me the speed differences are tiny and mostly seem to be related to the carbon feeling better going down hills fast and with Di2 I am more willing to change gears for a short period of time. It may also be that I tend to ride a lot in 50x17 on the carbon and 52*19 on the steel, my current level of fitness would benefit from an 18 sprocket cassette.

I ride 4-6 days a week mostly doing 2 days on the steel and 1 on the carbon, then back to the steel and I really struggle to feel the difference in speed, I need a speedometer or a clock to tell me.

I prefer the ride of the steel and have only kept the carbon as I am hoping that one day I will "get the point".

Bye

Ian

I ride mostly around the Worcestershire area which includes the Malvern Hills. http://www.malvernhills.org.uk/home/


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## Phaeton (12 Aug 2018)

Coming from somebody who has no clue on this but remember back in the 80's I upgraded a Raleigh Milk Race from friction type gears to some form of Shimano (I think) indexed type gears, this made a big difference to my riding, if you're happy with the bike & it suits your purpose maybe just a gear upgrade is the way forward. Although you may get a whole 2nd hand bike for the same cost as new components.


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## tommaguzzi (12 Aug 2018)

is the OP overweight at all. if so its fairly easy and much much cheaper to lose 2kg in a month of cal controlled diet and exerscise.


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## vickster (12 Aug 2018)

tommaguzzi said:


> is the OP overweight at all. if so its fairly easy and much much cheaper to lose 2kg in a month of cal controlled diet and exerscise.


He discusses his weight in Post #42


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## Katherine (12 Aug 2018)

That's why I got a new bike :
So I could keep up with groups.
I now ride it all the time because it is more fun.


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## simonali (12 Aug 2018)

screenman said:


> Nasty term to use, more successful in the earning stakes than you would have been better.



Get over yerself. They were definitely twats because they'd been out and bought brand new bikes and team kit to match, but then not done any practice whatsoever for a 50 odd mile ride with some good climbs on it. Their bikes looked unused, like they'd only been purchased the day before.


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## Katherine (12 Aug 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> Why not do both? A new bike would provide even more motivation to get out riding. You are also approaching a good time of the year to find bargains.


Definitely!


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## Alan O (12 Aug 2018)

simonali said:


> Get over yerself. They were definitely twats because they'd been out and bought brand new bikes and team kit to match, but then not done any practice whatsoever for a 50 odd mile ride with some good climbs on it. Their bikes looked unused, like they'd only been purchased the day before.


Yebbut, I think it's great when rich people buy bikes they hardly ever ride - a regular supply of hardly-ridden bikes helps keep the second-hand mark going strong and provides nice bargains for those of us further down the pay scale. Whenever I see an obvious newbie struggling on a flash expensive bike, who's clearly never ridden as far as Tesco before, I think "Some lucky bugger's going to get a nice eBay bargain there before long"


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## screenman (12 Aug 2018)

simonali said:


> Get over yerself. They were definitely twats because they'd been out and bought brand new bikes and team kit to match, but then not done any practice whatsoever for a 50 odd mile ride with some good climbs on it. Their bikes looked unused, like they'd only been purchased the day before.



I think you have a problem not me, when does it matter what people buy as long as they can afford it.


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## screenman (12 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> Yebbut, I think it's great when rich people buy bikes they hardly ever ride - a regular supply of hardly-ridden bikes helps keep the second-hand mark going strong and provides nice bargains for those of us further down the pay scale. Whenever I see an obvious newbie struggling on a flash expensive bike, who's clearly never ridden as far as Tesco before, I think "Some lucky bugger's going to get a nice eBay bargain there before long"



A mate of mine spent £4,000 on his first road bike and struggled to keep up with his mates for the first couple of months, the next year he was under 20 minutes for a 10, figure that one out. 

What is rich?


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## Phaeton (12 Aug 2018)

screenman said:


> I think you have a problem not me, when does it matter what people buy as long as they can afford it.


Sounds like GES (green eyed syndrome) to me


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## screenman (12 Aug 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Sounds like GES (green eyed syndrome) to me



So much of it shows its head on this forum, such a shame.


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## Drago (12 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Would a 13kg bike be that much slower than an modern 11 kg Carrera Vanquish disc braked road bike currently tempted with at the moment.



Be cautious about comparing quoted weights. Several reasons:

There is no universal standard for a bikes weight. Some quote ready to ride, some without pedals, and some without tyres and tubes or seat, or a cheeky combination thereof. Us buyers have no way of knowing who is using what measure.

Even where a manufacturer quotes a genuine "ready to ride" weight, there is no universal sizing standard between manufacturers. One manufacturers size "M" may differ markedly from anothers, where you might find yourself on an "L" instead, making even valid quoted weights of little use.

Then there's where the bikes mass is distributed. An extra kilo spread between the wheels will have a more noticeable effect than exactly the same weight added to the frame instead. A slightly heavier bike, but with lighter wheels, may give you a better performing machine than a lighter one with leaden wheels

Much talk of bike weights is ridiculous, verging on the useless. Go to a shop. Feel the bike, pick it up, ride it. This is the only means by which you can guarantee you are genuinely getting a lighter bike. How a bike feels, behaves and rides can never be determined from a brochure, even an honest manufacturers brochure.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

Great post by @Drago :-)


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## Drago (12 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Great post by @Drago :-)



Well, one does one's best


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## simongt (12 Aug 2018)

All this weight issue can be easily compromised by carrying the 'extras' which is of course, a very personal thing; tools, fluids, food, wind/waterproof, just-in-case things etc.,etc..
I'm guilty of the just-in-case thingys, but that's me, as I'm not particularily weight concious when I go out for a ride. I'm out to enjoy the day with as few worries as possible. And if that means taking extra kit which may well get me out of a muddle, so be it - ! 
And then of course, there are the minimalists with just a cellphone, who have the 'Hi honey, I've broken down/have a puncture, can you come and fetch me - ?' cop out - !


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## Kajjal (12 Aug 2018)

Weight does help but a well setup and maintained bike that makes you want to ride is the key. Things like having the right gearing for you, and in my case being 100kg having hydraulic disc brakes help a lot as well.

I do mountain biking in the warmer months and on one loop I do off road my new full suspension bike is 10 mins faster than my hardtail bike. The hard tail is a good bike and lighter but the full suspension bike handles the rough stuff better so is faster and less tiring to ride.


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## midliferider (12 Aug 2018)

I contributed to this thread and read it with interest.
I am amazed to see that you all seem to approach buying a new bike with such rational thought process. Really? Does that actually happen in real life?
Cycling for me is a hobby, I achieve great pleasure in cycling.
Only thing that prevents me from buying another new "advanced" bike is I can't afford.
If I were to win the lottery today, first thing I would do is to go and buy the most expensive bike that I can afford. Because it gives me great pleasure riding it. If it takes climbing easier or go bit faster, that is a bonus.
I just want another new bike.


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## Smokin Joe (12 Aug 2018)

Drago said:


> Be cautious about comparing quoted weights. Several reasons:
> 
> There is no universal standard for a bikes weight. Some quote ready to ride, some without pedals, and some without tyres and tubes or seat, or a cheeky combination thereof. Us buyers have no way of knowing who is using what measure.
> 
> Even where a manufacturer quotes a genuine "ready to ride" weight, there is no universal sizing standard between manufacturers. One manufacturers size "M" may differ markedly from anothers, where you might find yourself on an "L" instead, making even valid quoted weights of little use.


I don't know if they still do, but Ribble used to quote the weight as "Raw weight", ie unpainted. Primer, two top coats and a lacquer add a surprising amount to the weight of the frame and I always thought Ribble were a bit cheeky in doing that, particularly as many buyers wouldn't understand what the term means.


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## Drago (12 Aug 2018)

midliferider said:


> I am amazed to see that you all seem to approach buying a new bike with such rational thought process. Really? Does that actually happen in real life?



No, not everyone does. Less well informed or casual buyers rush out to their nearest bike shop and buy a bike with little or no thought. 

Well meaning but less sensible cyclists spend ages gleaning info from spec sheets and websites, which in reality tells you little more than how shiny and blingy a bike is and how good a bullpoiser the manufacturer is, although that approach in general terms can be oft used to make a shortlist.

For my own part, I'm not skint, but I'm not wealthy either. I have only the space to store so many bikes, and the funds to buy so much. It's important to me that once I've decided on a new bike that I get the best performance for my money. Spec sheets and illusory weight figures aren't a great deal of use when determining which bike suits a rider best, so I get out and burn some shoe leather and look at, feel, handle, and then ride a few. This approach got me my Felt road bike - far from the raciest, lightest, or most bling laden bike you will ever find, but the combination of fit, weight, comfort, stiffness, performance and features hit a very sexy sweet spot for me. Excluding pure luck, there's no way you'll ever get a bike with that personal to you X factor, unless you get out there and find it.


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## Pumpkin the robot (12 Aug 2018)

simonali said:


> Get over yerself. They were definitely twats because they'd been out and bought brand new bikes and team kit to match, but then not done any practice whatsoever for a 50 odd mile ride with some good climbs on it. Their bikes looked unused, like they'd only been purchased the day before.



So because a person has a nice bike and matching kit, does not ride it much they are a twat? 
That says so much about you.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

Hi again. 
Well once again I thankyou all for the input and valuable advice that's been given. On balance from what's been said, my limited budget would not really get me that New bike that would make that much difference compared to my rather old school bike so I think it's going to have to be a good second hand bike for me. I've been scouring all the classifieds today and low and behold I've spotted a good potential bike just down the road from me. It's a Specialized Allez elite (2011 model) . The seller states it's basically brand new and has covered less than 50 miles. From the pictures I've received it certainly looks a thing of beauty. As you good members here are far more knowledgeable about such things I would be very interested to know what you think of it. It's a 56 frame so I'm hoping it would be the right size for me ( I'm just under 6ft)
The guy is asking £300 for it and with a little luck and a bit of bartering he may sell a little less. It does come with extras such a a cycle helmet , computer and what look like a factory supplied specialized saddle bag to keep spare tubes etc. Sadly I've already got these items on my existing bike but I could always sell them on to recoup the outlay of the initial purchase ( I wouldn't get much in know but every little helps).
Anyway all the very best and thank you.


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## biggs682 (12 Aug 2018)

@johnnyb47 size wiae should be good but try for yourself first 
i was thinking about your question whilst out on my ride this morning on my 6 speed steel road bike based around a 1950's Dunelt i think the biggest difference between an older steel bike and a more modern one is the amount of gear changes i make as when on my older steel bikes i find that i just try a bit harder to get away without changing gear but when i go out on an sti equipped bike i find myself changing gears more often .


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

I tend to do that too @biggs682. When riding with other cyclists with there modern steeds I've noticed there always in the right gear on a twisty climbs whilst I'm still fumbling around with the down tube shifters. I often find I tend to grind my way up a hill whilst there are spinning. Another thing I find uncomfortable on my old bike are the hoods when cycling for a long time. There are relatively small to rest my hands on compared to modern brake hoods and often suffer from pressure pain and worn bleeding skin between my thumb and indexed finger. The brake cable that comes out from the top of the hood causes this. I'm starting get quite excited at the prospect of a new bike tomorrow :-) :-)


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## FishFright (12 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> I tend to do that too @biggs682. When riding with other cyclists with there modern steeds I've noticed there always in the right gear on a twisty climbs whilst I'm still fumbling around with the down tube shifters. I often find I tend to grind my way up a hill whilst there are spinning. Another thing I find uncomfortable on my old bike are the hoods when cycling for a long time. There are relatively small to rest my hands on compared to modern brake hoods and often suffer from pressure pain and worn bleeding skin between my thumb and indexed finger. The brake cable that comes out from the top of the hood causes this. I'm starting get quite excited at the prospect of a new bike tomorrow :-) :-)



New bike day is my fave day !


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## biggs682 (12 Aug 2018)

@johnnyb47 give me an old steelie any day of the week over a more modern bike they just dont ride the same way


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

I've heard and read that so many times buddy on different web sites. I just hope I won't be disappointed in my new purchase a few months down the line. It does make me a little apprehensive shelling out for something I may not like in the long term.


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## HLaB (12 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> I've heard and read that so many times buddy on different web sites. I just hope I won't be disappointed in my new purchase a few months down the line. It does make me a little apprehensive shelling out for something I may not like in the long term.


Unlikely that you'll feel that way but you can always re-sell


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## swee'pea99 (12 Aug 2018)

You may be interested in this, which I stumbled across t'other day, tho' it is comparing an old steel frame with a 'superbike' - some way outside your budget. Even then, tho' significant, the difference doesn't seem to be as great as you might think.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Aug 2018)

Thank you @swee'pee99 
I shall have a good read up on this now.:-)
Edit. ahhh I've seen this before on YouTube. It was quite a good comparison :-)


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## IanSmithCSE (13 Aug 2018)

Good morning,



johnnyb47 said:


> I've heard and read that so many times buddy on different web sites. I just hope I won't be disappointed in my new purchase a few months down the line. It does make me a little apprehensive shelling out for something I may not like in the long term.



I know someone with the basic allez and they really like it.

The only shock you may have is that according to an internet search the 2011 elite comes with a 50/34 compact chain set.

I've always had 52/42 so had to get used to the much lower gears available when using the small ring, it was initially confusing but I have got it sussed now.

Bye

Ian


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## johnnyb47 (13 Aug 2018)

Cheers Ian.


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## si_c (13 Aug 2018)

Like you @johnnyb47 my first road bike was a steel framed Peugeot. I think you've made the right choice looking at second hand bikes in your budget range for the simple reason that I don't think a budget road bike would ride as well as the one you already have - easier shifting aside - as steel bikes just seem to float along the road.

That being said on my newer bike I am a bit quicker than I was on my old bike - but then I'm fitter and lighter now than I was then so it's not a good comparison. Also worth thinking about as @Drago said is that quoted weights are pretty much meaningless until you've got a set of scales at hand. My bike's listed weight is 10kg, but with saddle bag, bottle cages, pedals and computer + mounts it's actually closer to 12.5kg - so not much difference when compared to your current bike. For comparison my steel road bike weighed 11.5kg with the same setup.

You have a lot of scope for reducing the weight of your current bike over a period of time through judicious choice of replacement components and a bit of thought. I'd suggest reading this - although it's a bit pornographic and not for those with dicky tickers - 9.7kg steel road bike with mudguards, front rack and dynamo lighting setup.


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## SkipdiverJohn (13 Aug 2018)

biggs682 said:


> i think the biggest difference between an older steel bike and a more modern one is the amount of gear changes i make as when on my older steel bikes i find that i just try a bit harder to get away without changing gear but when i go out on an sti equipped bike i find myself changing gears more often .



That's sooo true, modern indexed gears are pretty much idiot-proof in that it's difficult to make a bad gearchange so long as the thing is set up right - so there is no need, and no excuse, for ever being in the wrong gear. I haven't owned a bike with friction shifters since I was a youngster, and bar-mounted indexed shifters really spoil you, compared with faffing around tweaking a friction lever just a little bit more back or forward to get silent running, whilst trying not to take your eyes off the road. Indexed gearing combined with a good classic-looking steel frame is the pinnacle in bike design, IMHO.
As for all the other so-called "improvements" in modern bike design - like ugly-looking aero frames, sealed bearings, wheels with hardly any spokes, threadless headsets, fugly oversized combined brake hoods/shifters etc, the industry can keep them all. I'm not buying into any of it!


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## SkipdiverJohn (13 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm shocked and disappointed that you should be dissing the noble downtube friction shifter. The One True Way to change gear.



Don't get me wrong, they look way more handsome than trigger shifters, and I love their simplicity - but being honest I don't think they are very user-friendly when riding a bike on roads with busy traffic where you need to keep your wits about you. It is a mark of rider skill to be able to make smooth flawless changes with friction shifters whilst still looking where they are going. The ultimate changer to me would be a downtube or top tube shifter that looks like a friction one but is actually indexed - the best of both worlds.


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## si_c (13 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> They do exist, and someone will be along soon to tell us about them. But I've never used them.



They can be pretty too.


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## freiston (14 Aug 2018)

Campagnolo were making indexed downtube shifters 30 years ago (Syncro etc.). My bar-end shifters are friction on the front changer (no need for indexing and easy to trim) and indexed rear shifter and imho, have an aesthetic appeal on a par with downtube shifters


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## IanSmithCSE (14 Aug 2018)

Good morning



Dogtrousers said:


> They do exist, and someone will be along soon to tell us about them. But I've never used them.


That would be me.

About five or six years ago I upgraded from 7spd to 8spd mostly because I was having trouble getting a 7spd cassette with the desired sprocket sizes at a decent price, the only shop I found wanted £40!

Given that the equivalent 8spd was about £20 upgrading was a sort of no brainer, my shifter's at that time were the last non indexed Shimano 600 ones and they were looking sad and needed a bit of attention as they were slipping. 

Ribble were offering 8sp indexed downtube Tiagra shifters although I didn't really want to go that far down the Shimano range they were the only option as the 10spd Durace ones didn't have a friction mode and I don't regret getting them at all, 

indexing is worthwhile even on the downtube where you still have to move your hands of the handlebars, you can make a quick gear change and not have to go back again for a tweak. 

I had no problem with quick changes on 5spd but on 8spd the margins for error seems to be smaller, although I did see a video where someone tried riding with friction leavers and 11spd, he struggled!

I think that having indexed down tube shifters along with the cost were the two main reasons for never trying STI until very recently.

Bye

Ian


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## IanSmithCSE (16 Aug 2018)

Good morning,

For various reasons I was looking for comments on Shimano Claris and found this video review 

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/gears-drivetrain/shimano-claris-groupset

about 1:20 in we see a chainring change! 

I suspect that downtube shifters are better than this implementation of STI. 

Bye

Ian


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## mgs315 (16 Aug 2018)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good morning,
> 
> For various reasons I was looking for comments on Shimano Claris and found this video review
> 
> ...



I think the chain slap there’s is exaggerated a bit on the change to the small ring as the rider is already in the smallest gear on the cassette. Changing up doesn’t look too bad to me.

As for whether a fancier bike makes you faster.. I’d argue there’s a psychological component to it. When I’m on my Triban 500 (which I use/abuse as my commuter/don’t mind if stolen bike) I don’t really care much for how hard I ride unless I’m in a dedicated training session and it’s all I can use at the time. That even reflects in my usual clothing (B’twin and cheap DHB usually as I think wearing higher end gear on a lower end bike looks odd).

However when on the TCR I make a concerted effort to push as hard as I can as the bike itself is better than my performance level and I feel I owe it the decency to ride it hard. Clothing usually ends up being Castelli or similar. I guess it’s because I’m a massive tart.


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## Gravity Aided (17 Aug 2018)

I rather like the indexed version of the Shimano 600 (tricolor) downtube shifter, and they go on about their business like it's still 1985.


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## BrumJim (21 Aug 2018)

johnnyb47 said:


> Hi again.
> Well once again I thankyou all for the input and valuable advice that's been given. On balance from what's been said, my limited budget would not really get me that New bike that would make that much difference compared to my rather old school bike so I think it's going to have to be a good second hand bike for me. I've been scouring all the classifieds today and low and behold I've spotted a good potential bike just down the road from me. It's a Specialized Allez elite (2011 model) . The seller states it's basically brand new and has covered less than 50 miles. From the pictures I've received it certainly looks a thing of beauty. As you good members here are far more knowledgeable about such things I would be very interested to know what you think of it. It's a 56 frame so I'm hoping it would be the right size for me ( I'm just under 6ft)
> The guy is asking £300 for it and with a little luck and a bit of bartering he may sell a little less. It does come with extras such a a cycle helmet , computer and what look like a factory supplied specialized saddle bag to keep spare tubes etc. Sadly I've already got these items on my existing bike but I could always sell them on to recoup the outlay of the initial purchase ( I wouldn't get much in know but every little helps).
> Anyway all the very best and thank you.


You won't be the first person to upgrade from a classic Peugeot to a 2011 Specialized Allez, but I did it in 2011. And it was a Carbolite Peugeot, so "Classic" rather than Classic.
The biggest problem upgrading to the Specialized will be finding an excuse when someone passes you up a hill when riding a Classic Peugeot!

Frame has a lifetime guarantee, so you can have confidence in upgrading to a better groupset as and when necessary, and you won't feel guilty about upgrading your wheels either. In a couple of year's time you will become proud Dad to a little boy, and change jobs 5 years later. Unless either of those things was not related to the bike purchase, in which case something completely different will happen.


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