# Vintage bike vs modern bike



## LemonJuice (3 Jun 2020)

I have a few questions for anyone on here who rides a vintage bike (say up until the late 1990s) and a modern-day bike.

1) What is the biggest difference you find between them when riding?

2) Do you find downtube shifters difficult to use?

3) When you are riding your older bike, are you able to keep up with other people who are using more modern bikes?

My modern-day bike is getting sorted next week, but I am looking on eBay for an old school bike from the 1980s or 1990s. I really like the old school look on bikes.


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## johnnyb47 (3 Jun 2020)

Hi, I have an old 80s Peugeot road bike and a modern Specialized road bike. The biggest difference i can say between them are the gears. With a modern bike it's so much easier to quickly change gear in any situation. A big hill appears just after a sharp bend for instance, and you can change gear whilst still hanging onto the bars through the corner. With friction shifters you have to take your hands off the bars and forward plan a little
I do find the old bike much more comfortable though. The steel frame really absorbs the road buzz compared to the more modern alloy bike. I would use the old bike any day over the new for touring. Its more comfortable and less complex and easier to fix if things go wrong. 
Friction down tube shifters are real easy to use. The more gears you have though on the back wheel the more accurate you have to be with the levers. A 5 or 6 speed block though is really easy to trim levers to. You change gear and if hear the chain chattering on the block you just move the lever a smidge more.
Cycling with people with more modern lighter bikes is easy enough. Even though you're old bike maybe heaver, once you have got the momentum up it's easy enough to ride with others of a lightweight bike..It's just when you come to steep hills you start to notice the difference or when you hit a technical bit. You could find yourself reaching for gears whilst the modern day bikes gears have changed.
Saying that though, this only happens if your both feeling a little competitive on the day.
I enjoy riding both bikes for different reasons. The old bike always gets lots of attention from nostalgic fans and seems to have an endearing "runs like clock work" "feel to it.
The modern bike is great for really stretching your legs and lighting up the road and attacking the steep climbs. 
All the very best and hope you enjoy your bikes 👍👍


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

1. They're steel so they're a bit heavier and they twang over bumps.

2. No

3. Sometimes I leave them behind. On the flat, with the same quality tyres, there is no difference.


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## biggs682 (3 Jun 2020)

1. You don't change gear as much
2. Easier and more reliable than sti's
3. I ride solo and who care's as i ride at my pace . 

Older bike's are more enjoyable to ride and look after and say more about the rider than a new bike


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## sleuthey (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> I have a few questions for anyone on here who rides a vintage bike (say up until the late 1990s) and a modern-day bike.
> 
> 1) What is the biggest difference you find between them when riding?
> 
> ...



1. Less rattling when going over bumps

2. WTF are downtime shifters! All the 90s bikes iv had were gripshift or thumbshift. Even better my current one below has no shifters at all.

3. I don’t think bike age is significant for that question, more to do with bike spec surely. So no.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jun 2020)

sleuthey said:


> WTF are downtime shifters! All the 90s bikes iv had were gripshift or thumbshift.


Autocorrect for downtube shifters. Friction (or less frequently indexed) shifters on the down tube. Pretty much universal on derailleur bikes until the advent of brifters and other indexed shifters.


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## Oldfentiger (3 Jun 2020)

I have a number of bikes, the majority of which are pre 1987.
I have an all carbon Merida, a very nice bicycle which cost more than 10 of my old bikes collectively.
No-one has ever admired the Merida or engaged me in conversation about it, whereas the older bikes always seem to attract attention.
I mostly ride alone so any performance difference is irrelevant. The old bikes make me smile more.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jun 2020)

My old Dawes handles differently to my more modern (but still steel) Spa. Just feels different. A bit "sloppy" maybe. May be due to being heavier.

DT shifters take me a short while to recalibrate my brain/arms but once done they are no problem.

I rarely ride with other people, but when I do people (myself included) are considerate enough not to ride away from others so not a problem on either bike.

That said I almost never ride the Dawes. It just takes up space. The Spa is a better bike, set up just how I want it. One bike is enough for me.


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## DCLane (3 Jun 2020)

+1 to @Oldfentiger's comment. My 'nice' bike cost more than my car - but the NeilPryde's sat anonymous with similar ones.

Go out on an old bike and there are questions, memories of "I had one of those", etc. As long as you're fit enough you will keep up - remember that the new brifters are heavier than downtube shifters and brake levers so a group ride is fine unless it's a pace line because shifting is a bit slower.


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## I like Skol (3 Jun 2020)

I had a lovely old 1991 Raleigh steel roadbike for a while.
I think the main difference between that and modern bikes were the handlebar shape and the downtube shifters.
It certainly wasn't noticeably slower than my other bikes and as I grew up with downtube shifters it wasn't a big shock going back to them and you can make as quick or quicker gear changes once used to them (changing down through multiple gears in one movement when encountering a sudden climb). I can see that downtube shifters might be a huge obstacle to someone who has only experienced brifters before.


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

For the uninitiated, we should point out that downtube shifters have been indexed since the late 1980s. Some people think they're all friction-shift.


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## nagden (3 Jun 2020)

I have a 1969 Motobecane tourer. It is my profile picture. I love it. It is comfortable and uncomplicated. I have other bikes but this is my favorite.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2020)

I grew up riding road bikes in the 1980s and 1990s. The difference between a typical road bike from that era and a typical road bike from now, is massive ( generally speaking).Whether the engines are capable of exploiting the differences is where there is a debate to be had:


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jun 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> 1. They're steel so they're a bit heavier and they twang over bumps.
> 
> 2. No
> 
> 3. Sometimes I leave them behind. On the flat, with the same quality tyres, there is no difference.


In a nutshell!


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## Cycleops (3 Jun 2020)

Not a lot, no and yes. Their main advantage is you can also use them as a towel rail as @sleuthey cleverly illustrates 

Go ahead with your old Skool bike purchase @LemonJuice , after its sorted it’ll be a thing of joy for a long time.


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## derrick (3 Jun 2020)

I went out on a old bike. The only question i got asked was why have you not got a new bike.🤣 I have got two carbon bikes and niether of them rattle or make any other noise. Both smooth as silk.


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## Blue Hills (3 Jun 2020)

As several have written, index shifting has been around a hell of a long time, into what is now (to my slight surprise) classed as vintage.
My two favourite most ridden bikes are from about 97 - and when I get round to it will be building up another 97 bike - all classed as vintage.
I find the idea that the average rider will be slower on an older bike a bit odd.
I do have more recent bikes (last new bike bought about 3 years ago) but those are pretty old-school in design as well.
New bikes?
Most of them I don't like - I like steel and simple smallish round tubes.
Many new bike frames put me in mind of hotwheels cars from my distant childhood, or the more adventurous matchboxes - wacky for the sake of it.
Was in an upmarket bike shop in Skipton a while ago - there was a carbon MTB in there - the frame profile looked like several girders bonded together. One of the ugliest things I'd ever seen. Wandered over the road and one of the market stall holders had an old steel US made Dale racer - he used it to get around - a thing of beauty it was compared to the carbon girder collection - and no doubt simpler to run/maintain.

My main concession to modernity? I do like a sloping top tube - all mine (getting on for ten) but one are - but sloping top tubes were around last century as well.


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## Cycleops (3 Jun 2020)

derrick said:


> I have got two carbon bikes and niether of them rattle or make any other noise. Both smooth as silk.


Just like my nineties steel framed Schwinn


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## Drago (3 Jun 2020)

Comparing my 1983 Claud Butler 521 to my 2014 Felt triple butted alu job (I could compare my 2019 Boardman Road Team carbon, but I'm a bit ambivalent about it and much prefer the other two).

The Felt is undoubtedly quicker, or at least goes quicker for the same energy output. It's lively feeling, responsive, sharp handling, not too bad comfort wise.

The Claud is slower, but is no slouch. It feels a little more languid, not so sharp for cornering but is surefooted and stable so it can be pushed with confidence right up to its limit, and is supremely comfortable. 

The biggest difference to me is ergonomic. The brifters on the Felt are very convenient and it does take me a mile or two of readjustment on the Claud, and the Claud's original bars are narrower than the 44cm jobs on the Felt, so the steering feels a lot more different than it actually is.

I like them both and if I had to choose one it would be difficult indeed.


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## raleighnut (3 Jun 2020)

I've only ever ridden a carbon jobbie with 'brifters' once didn't get on with them at all but tried some on my TT bike (10 speed Campagnolo) and didn't like those either so went to 'bar end' shifters and tried 'aerobars' didn't like those either.

As for downtube shifters 3 of my bikes have them, 2 friction only and 1 indexed,



rogerzilla said:


> For the uninitiated, we should point out that downtube shifters have been indexed since the late 1980s. Some people think they're all friction-shift.


 Also the indexing can be 'switched off' by rotating a little ring by half a turn if things get a bit clattery on a ride.

Weight wise well 2 of them are quality steel tubing one 531c and the other 653 Reynolds tubing so they're pretty light but even the 3 with standard 'hi tensile' Raleigh tubing aren't that bad but they do seem to have loads of crap bolted to em (racks mudguards etc) and my most 'comfy' is the Ridgeback in Tange CrMo tubing but that's a hybrid so doesn't really count in this.


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## matticus (3 Jun 2020)

I don't have much to add to the pros-n-cons list already well-explained here. But I would say:

There are plenty of modern bikes that are slower than the better "vintage" bikes.

(It should stand to reason, really; there are vintage Ferraris that can easily out-perform brand-new Kia Ceeds! )


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## wafter (3 Jun 2020)

From my experiences of my first road bike (an ancient, tatty steel offering whose only ID was the Reynolds sticker on the frame; and something I now wish I'd kept) by far the single biggest issue was the hassle of using downtube shifters - slow, awkward and particularly difficult during climbs.

Despite owning a modern CFRP road bike (which on the face of it does the job extremely well) I have little love for them as I don't believe they'll last anywhere near as well as steel bikes and the failure modes of the material make me uneasy.

From an idealogical perspective at least I think my perfect bike would be an old / old-style steel frame with a modern hydro disc groupset... which is pretty much what I have in my CdF although it's hardly a lightweight racing machine. I have toyed with the idea of replacing my Boardman with a Genesis Equilibrium Disc, however I don't like the use of composite forks, couldn't afford it and would feel a bit bad binning the Boardman as so far it's really served me very well.


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## Hugh Manatee (3 Jun 2020)

@I like Skol mentioned bar shape. It does seem quite pronounced. I must say, I would like to try the modern dinky little drops but I don't want to lose the elegance of the quill stem.

I have just rebuilt the front end of my Graham Weigh 531 after an accident with a car. Had the bike been carbon, it undoubtably would have been a write off. It has downtube shifters in friction mode and what I refer to as my compact gear set up. 50/38 and 12-25. I am finding myself changing gear less often and rediscovering the older way of riding. There is a hill coming up. Put the bike in the gear you think you can get up the whole hill on and go for it... It is interesting/fun seeing if you guessed right.

Like some others, I only ride solo but for the huge majority of people, on the road; a decent bike is a decent bike. As long as bits aren't falling off and it has a good frame and wheels, a vintage bike will do all you want in style.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jun 2020)

Here is my newest bike. Custom made from 853 7 or 8 years ago. Modern steel, 9speed, DT shifters.
I have a couple Holdsworths, a mid 80s and a late 50s. @rogerzilla has it spot-on, the modern version is slightly lighter and notably stiffer.

DT shifters are simple, reliable and as said, lighter than Brifter types.  Threadless 1&1/8 Headsets and non-quill stems are simple and more readily adjustable.
Modern cartridge bearing BB, wheel bearings etc are simple to change/adjust.

But otherwise there ain’t much difference ridewise except a little weight and a lot of stiffness.

Look at ‘Light Blue’ in Cambridge, they do modern retro roadbikes, one complete with traditional he-man 53/39 gearing.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jun 2020)

Hugh Manatee said:


> @I like Skol mentioned bar shape. It does seem quite pronounced. I must say, I would like to try the modern dinky little drops but I don't want to lose the elegance of the quill stem.
> 
> I have just rebuilt the front end of my Graham Weigh 531 after an accident with a car. Had the bike been carbon, it undoubtably would have been a write off. It has downtube shifters in friction mode and what I refer to as my compact gear set up. 50/38 and 12-25. I am finding myself changing gear less often and rediscovering the older way of riding. There is a hill coming up. Put the bike in the gear you think you can get up the whole hill on and go for it... It is interesting/fun seeing if you guessed right.
> 
> Like some others, I only ride solo but for the huge majority of people, on the road; a decent bike is a decent bike. As long as bits aren't falling off and it has a good frame and wheels, a vintage bike will do all you want in style.


Bar shape is certainly a moving-feast, notably that they are wider and shallower than of old.
Re: DT shifters, I agree that you end-up shifting gears less and find a more (poncey alert) fluid riding style. Also once used to them regarding hills etc. you can traverse a whole block in one move and use the same hand to shift fronts as well. DT shifters also trim better at the front. As I don’t race I have no need for anything else.


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## Blue Hills (3 Jun 2020)

raleighnut said:


> my most 'comfy' is the Ridgeback in Tange CrMo tubing but that's a hybrid so doesn't really count in this.



I think I know which you mean but don't tell anyone what it is 

Why doesn't it count?


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

I've seen a couple of TLB bikes and they are very nice. Bit pricey considering the frames are Taiwanese* and you could have an old 531DB racing frame refurbished for less.

*this means they're probably very well-built, but you're still paying through the nose considering Taiwanese labour costs.


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## Chris S (3 Jun 2020)

If you buy a 1980's bike make sure it doesn't have chrome rims. It won't stop in the wet.


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## Specialeyes (3 Jun 2020)

If you already have a modern carbon fibre bike, then I can’t recommend trying a nice vintage road bike enough – they’re an absolute joy. In addition to all of the points above, something else worth noting is that a vintage steel bike opens up a whole different style of riding – at least for me. 

To explain, my carbon road bikes are all equipped with SPD-SL pedals. SPD-SL pedals dictate road shoes, which in turn dictate donning the Lycra and riding fast. Put the other way around, I’m unlikely to ‘go for a potter’ on a carbon fibre road bike with 60mm carbon wheels. Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like there’s an ‘obligation’ to go hard on my newest carbon fibre bikes (more fool me for succumbing to peer group / marketing pressure maybe?) but which isn't there on a steel-framed bike. They're perfectly capable of going (almost) as fast as the more modern bikes and I've completed plenty of group rides and sportives alongside modern bikes, as well as the fabulous retro events. Be prepared to get involved in a lot more conversations with fellow riders when you're on a steel bike than a homogeneous carbon fibre one!

On downtube shifters, even in friction mode you just get a feel for them. As others have mentioned upthread, the ability to drop through the entire cassette in one fell swoop is ace. You can also switch chainrings at the same time by operating both levers in one movement through the frame - very handy for unexpected climbs and descents. It's not quite as marginal gainsy as a DI2 but you'll smile more.

Can I keep pace with myself on a CF bike? On the flats, absolutely. On hilly or rolling terrain marginally slower on the brifter-equipped steel bikes and marginally slower still on the downtube shifter-equipped bikes - where I'll tend to pick a gear earlier and stick with it, whereas on a modern bike you can make that decision much later and again mid-climb. There is something immensely satisfying about absolutely blatting along on a well-maintained vintage bike.

Just my 2 'penneth.

tl;dr horses for courses


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## wafter (3 Jun 2020)

Hugh Manatee said:


> Like some others, I only ride solo but for the huge majority of people, on the road; a decent bike is a decent bike. As long as bits aren't falling off and it has a good frame and wheels, a vintage bike will do all you want in style.


Indeed - unfortunately the industry revolves around setting somewhat arbitrary standards and up-selling products to the masses based on said standards. So, everyone thinks they want a CFRP road bike as they're the next best thing; lighter, faster, stiffer (yet more complaint!) - it's what the pro's use so it has to be great.. Except that the needs of the pros and amateurs rarely align (despite how marketing teams thrive off the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mentality). 

This results in people buying stuff that's potentially not that well suited to their needs. Not to take away from the benefits of composite frames, but if you're not competing or ride alone, are these really of any value over the material's drawbacks for the average rider? 

Don't get me wrong I'm not against progress per se - I love integrated shifters, through-axles, disc brakes.. but IMO not all change in the industry is of benefit to the consumer and I reckon for a lot of people steel would still be an ideal frame material. 

Fundamentally bikes haven't changed that much in the past 50yrs and as you suggest, if it does the job it's all good


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## derrick (3 Jun 2020)

Cycleops said:


> Just like my nineties steel framed Schwinn


Thats probably the same weight as both of mine.


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## raleighnut (3 Jun 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Why doesn't it count?


Not a roadbike.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Jun 2020)

Using friction dt shifters is like playing the violin, you have to practice but if you get good you can shift really quickly, even f/r at the same time with one hand. You don't get to be this good by occasional riding, it has to be daily commuting.
I prefer integrated shifters on my tourer to maintain control on descents and rough ground but there is always a bit of lag in shifting.


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## Blue Hills (3 Jun 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Not a roadbike.


ah, didn't see it in original post - maybe it emerged in the thread - i scan things.


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## Andrew1971 (3 Jun 2020)

My main road bike is a mid 90's dawes. Upgraded from 14 to 16speed and brifters and new wheels about 5 year's
ago. reynolds 531 competition frame and forks. Best road bike i have ever had.
Andrew


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## Gravity Aided (3 Jun 2020)

I've used both modern and old bikes for touring and such in the past. Aluminum modern Dawes for winter, a good bike, but not impressive. 1986 Schwinn Passage touring bike made of Columbus tubing, a fine bicycle that is impressive. Probably cost a lot more new. Sometimes the history of the bicycle, and the place it held in the line of products make for a good estimate of an old bicycles suitability. I have a Falcon San Remo that still keeps up quite well, made in 1972, but 531 steel and Campagnolo drivetrain. A different Falcon from lower in the line probably would not be as good a machine.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Jun 2020)

Gravity Aided said:


> I have a Falcon San Remo that still keeps up quite well, made in 1972, but 531 steel and Campagnolo drivetrain. A different Falcon from lower in the line probably would not be as good a machine.



My 1979 Falcon Majorca 5 speed was a basic sports bike but rode very nicely. Unfortunately it didn't have the gears or brakes or threaded holes for touring which proved to be limiting.


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## mustang1 (3 Jun 2020)

I haven't ridden a dt-shifter bike for a long time but I had a friction dt-shifter bike as a kid. I love them these days for nostalgic reasons and one day I'd like to own one again. I have newer steel and carbon bikes and the steel ride waaaaay-smooth. It doesnt iron out the bumps like a Cadillac but it sure is less buzzy than a carbon bike (which I find is less buzzy than an Al bike (generally speaking).


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## Drago (3 Jun 2020)

The biggest difference is that when riding my Claud I'm transported back in time 40 years, and people suddenly want to come and talk to me about the bike.


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

The fastest bike I have is a 1951 Holdsworth Tornado with a Sturmey-Archer AM hub. The wheels are anachronistic - Deep V rims and Vredestein Fortezza racing tyres on period hubs. It's not a hillclimb champion, with only a 52" low gear, but on a flat road it absolutely flies.

It may be the position, the tyres, some marginal aero effect from the rims or the lack of any draggy seals in the hubs. It left a load of pretty good fellow riders on carbon bikes behind one night, and earned me the soubriquet "Rocket"! Also averaged over 18mph over 20 miles one Saturday morning, and that included going through the centre of Swindon with traffic light stops.


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## LemonJuice (3 Jun 2020)

So, do people actually bother wearing lyrics, using road shoes and clipless pedals with a vintage bike? Or, is a vintage bike more of a bike to just use to go to work and back?


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## vickster (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> So, do people actually bother wearing lyrics, using road shoes and clipless pedals with a vintage bike? Or, is a vintage bike more of a bike to just use to go to work and back?


Wear whatever you want on whatever bike you want...dgaf about what anyone else thinks, there's no right and wrong in the broad church of cycling. Do what suits and works for you

Weren't you planning on spending 2k on a bike though, that'd one hell of a vintage machine??


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## I like Skol (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> So, do people actually bother wearing lyrics, using road shoes and clipless pedals with a vintage bike? Or, is a vintage bike more of a bike to just use to go to work and back?


As has been said, do what YOU want.

I had clipless SPD pedals on my 1991 531 frame Raleigh, but I also ride my £3k carbon road bike in baggy shorts and MTB shoes... Rebel


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## avecReynolds531 (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> I have a few questions for anyone on here who rides a vintage bike (say up until the late 1990s) and a modern-day bike.
> 
> 1) What is the biggest difference you find between them when riding?
> 
> ...


1. The vintage bike encourages you to take a slow place and enjoy the views. It's nostalgic too, for those of us of a certain age. 
The roadbike is a different universe in speed, handling, acceleration, braking and gear changes.
Here, the vintage bike is largely ignored by local cyclists, whereas my road bike gets attention.

2. No, friction shifting takes practice & accuracy - as some comedian once said to me: "It's in there somewhere." 
I find it also takes more time and I prefer not to take my hands off the bars for gear changes. 

3. Rarely, the gear changes - the 5 speed freewheel has large gaps between gears - and the weight of the wheels (anchors), mean that the modern bikes are usually a dot on the horizon, particularly on the climbs.

For me, a good lugged 531 frame is timeless & beautiful. As is an Italian road bike, with a horizontal top tube, and modern Campagnolo components. Having both helps to appreciate their differences. 

Everyone's different & we all love the bike.


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## Blue Hills (3 Jun 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> The fastest bike I have is a 1951 Holdsworth Tornado with a Sturmey-Archer AM hub. The wheels are anachronistic - Deep V rims and Vredestein Fortezza racing tyres on period hubs. It's not a hillclimb champion, with only a 52" low gear, but on a flat road it absolutely flies.
> 
> It may be the position, the tyres, some marginal aero effect from the rims or the lack of any draggy seals in the hubs. It left a load of pretty good fellow riders on carbon bikes behind one night, and earned me the soubriquet "Rocket"! Also averaged over 18mph over 20 miles one Saturday morning, and that included going through the centre of Swindon with traffic light stops.


This calls for a photo.


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

Your wish, etc


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## matticus (3 Jun 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Your wish, etc


Is that the most common place to put an SA shifter on a drop-bar bike?


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## rogerzilla (3 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> Is that the most common place to put an SA shifter on a drop-bar bike?


It's one of the common options - the other is just under the brake lever - although it's actually a flat-bar trigger,modified to fit the thicker bar with a long kinked bolt. The real drop-bar levers, not made for decades, have the lettering the right way up for under-bar mounting.


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## LemonJuice (3 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Wear whatever you want on whatever bike you want...dgaf about what anyone else thinks, there's no right and wrong in the broad church of cycling. Do what suits and works for you
> 
> Weren't you planning on spending 2k on a bike though, that'd one hell of a vintage machine??



I want to pay about £250 at the most for a vintage road bike.

Yes, in a few months I want to spend 2k on a carbon road bike.


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## LemonJuice (3 Jun 2020)

I like Skol said:


> As has been said, do what YOU want.
> 
> I had clipless SPD pedals on my 1991 531 frame Raleigh, but I also ride my £3k carbon road bike in baggy shorts and MTB shoes... Rebel



Did you ever get any funny looks?

I’m just wondering If people will think it’s weird to use modern technology on an older bike.


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## vickster (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> I want to pay about £250 at the most for a vintage road bike.
> 
> Yes, in a few months I want to spend 2k on a carbon road bike.


What about the Boardman?


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## vickster (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Did you ever get any funny looks?
> 
> I’m just wondering If people will think it’s weird to use modern technology on an older bike.


What people? The vast majority have no clue about anything to do with cycling


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## Drago (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> So, do people actually bother wearing lyrics, using road shoes and clipless pedals with a vintage bike?


Usually, yes.


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## matticus (3 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> What people? The vast majority have no clue about anything to do with cycling


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## roley poley (3 Jun 2020)

I normally ride flat bars but whenever I ride the dropped bar bike which I have had for 6 month somewhere in the muscle memory or grooved paths of my brain I still occasionally reach for the down tube shifters I loved 20 years ago on another bike long gone, all the other times I am fine with my bar end shifter.Bloomin vintage autopilot


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## I like Skol (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Did you ever get any funny looks?
> 
> I’m just wondering If people will think it’s weird to use modern technology on an older bike.


No, not that I have noticed, but people that may think I'm at all odd are invariably disappearing into the distance behind me as I show them a clean pair of heels . Besides, why would I care what they think?


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## Blue Hills (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Did you ever get any funny looks?
> 
> I’m just wondering If people will think it’s weird to use modern technology on an older bike.


I'm using 9 speed on a bike I bought as (the remnants of) a 7 speed.
That's the sort of mad devil may care loon I am.
Relax.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> So, do people actually bother wearing lyrics, using road shoes and clipless pedals with a vintage bike? Or, is a vintage bike more of a bike to just use to go to work and back?


I do, why not?


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Did you ever get any funny looks?
> 
> I’m just wondering If people will think it’s weird to use modern technology on an older bike.


The only time I've ever got funny looks for putting modern stuff on an older bike was when I punctured on a group ride with my Dawes and had to remove and replace the (modern 130mm hub) rear wheel. This required me swearing and wrestling with for several minutes it as I forced the dropouts to give me an extra 10mm or however much it is while my impatient companions stood by in the rain. Giving me funny looks.

Seriously, I don't think anyone ever gives anyone else "funny looks" about bikes. Sensitive folk may imagine it, but I doubt it happens.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jun 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Your wish, etc


I think I have the same frame judging by the geometry and the lugs!


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## johnnyb47 (3 Jun 2020)

Funny enough, I've just been for a ride out on my old Peugeot today and was thinking about this thread on the way round. As said before the old pig iron frame of the pug is lovely and smooth. It vibrates along the road like my modern bike, but it does it in another way that I can't explain.. It almost feels kind of mutted if that makes any sense.. It's also quieter too. The big tubing and deep section wheels with 700c x 28 tyre's on the Specialized give off a hollow sounding roar but the pug with it's skinny frame and tyre's let out a very quiet hiss along the road.. It definitely feels more sluggish but once the momentum is up its just as quick.. It was very pleasant relaxing ride tonight in between the showers. 
One thing that escaped my attention is that the rear cassette needs replacing. The chain keeps on skipping on the 4th cog down. Looking at it, it looks rather worn. The chain is new and is not properly meshing in on the worn cog anymore 👍


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## Gravity Aided (3 Jun 2020)

Mid 1890's Trek Elance 400, with Shimano 600 group set. 531 Reynolds CS, silver brazed frame,cast lugs. Try and find something that finely made nowadays that doesn't cost a king's ransom. A fine ride, tracks wonderfully and rides smoothly. Will take up to a 700x35. Actually, I just came in from a ride on this bicycle now. Stormy weather about. I choose this one when I may have to outrun some weather.


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## Gunk (3 Jun 2020)

That looks very modern for 1890


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## Gravity Aided (3 Jun 2020)

1980's for sure. I blame the mysterious typing disease for that one...


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## All uphill (3 Jun 2020)

I've just built a bike up from a 1956 steel frame. The ride quality is miles ahead of my road bike, which is less than a year old. Both are on 700x28 tyres.

The newer bike (Orro) is quicker and I enjoy it, but the oldie makes me smile. Shame I've sold it really.


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## Gunk (3 Jun 2020)

I restore older stuff but ride modern stuff, I like the smoothness and precision of a modern 11 speed groupset, but I love working on the older stuff.


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## LemonJuice (3 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> What about the Boardman?



I’m getting it fixed next week and I’m going to keep it.


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## confusedcyclist (4 Jun 2020)

I intentionally installed 9 speed dura-ace bar end shifters on my 2018 DIY build steel frame and get on just fine with them. The straggler is a bit of a retro style bike anyway. It suits the frame material. Not a great leap of difference between bar-ends and downtube shifters. It took about 5-30 minutes of riding to get used to reaching down for the shifter, coming from modern STIs. After that, I don't think about them any more. The planning ahead bit is only true whilst you are not used to them, then it becomes completley subconscious. Some morons have argued they are unsafe, but they clearly haven't mastered their balancing yet, as I've never had reason to feel in danger as a result of using them.


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## SkipdiverJohn (5 Jun 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> vibrates along the road like my modern bike, but it does it in another way that I can't explain.. It almost feels kind of muted if that makes any sense.. It's also quieter too. The big tubing and deep section wheels with 700c x 28 tyre's on the Specialized give off a hollow sounding roar



Modern carbon fibre bikes have similar acoustic properties to a hollow guitar body, but sadly lack the ability of a guitar to produce any sort of pleasing sound. This characteristic is inherently engineered into all big-tubed frames that have a large air volume, both CF and aluminium. Watch a couple of Hambini's bike engineering YouTube videos and pay attention to how much sound the CF frames in particular produce when just being handled to show them to the camera!


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## Drago (5 Jun 2020)

You can get carbon fibre backed acoustic guitars.


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## SkipdiverJohn (5 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> You can get carbon fibre backed acoustic guitars.



For weight weeny players.....


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## Dogtrousers (5 Jun 2020)

My experience of the sounds of other bikes as they overtake me is that it's deep section wheels, and esp super duper TT bikes with disk wheels that make a rumbling noise. I don't think the frame material is that significant.

That's from my highly scientific peer reviewed survey. That I just made up.


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## rogerzilla (5 Jun 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> For weight weeny players.....


For people with unlimited money! Ovation have some very wacky, and very expensive, models with CF bowls and multiple soundholes.


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## philtalksbx (5 Jun 2020)

Maybe it's the tinkerer in me but I just love the quiet hum of a well tuned bike (that I tuned!). 

The mid-90s 531 7 speed downshift Claud does it so well and is easy to keep there. The carbon Orbea does it occasionally (and is faster) although the modern 10 speed Campag can be a bit fussy sometimes.


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## LemonJuice (5 Jun 2020)

Am I right in thinking that riding a vintage bike will mean you will feel more of the bumps in the road?

I’ve read contradictory statements. I’ve read that a steel bike will be more rigid on the roads and I’ve read that a steel bike will make you feel every bump in the road and be more uncomfortable compared to newer bikes.


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## vickster (5 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Am I right in thinking that riding a vintage bike will mean you will feel more of the bumps in the road?
> 
> I’ve read contradictory statements. I’ve read that a steel bike will be more rigid on the roads and I’ve read that a steel bike will make you feel every bump in the road and be more uncomfortable compared to newer bikes.


Probably due to the skinny tyres on the vintage vs fatter tyres on a modern adventure/gravel/road bike. Not just down to frame material


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## Dogtrousers (5 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Am I right in thinking that riding a vintage bike will mean you will feel more of the bumps in the road?
> 
> I’ve read contradictory statements. I’ve read that a steel bike will be more rigid on the roads and I’ve read that a steel bike will make you feel every bump in the road and be more uncomfortable compared to newer bikes.


That probably has more to do with tyres and frame design than frame material.

I would have thought. I don't know.

Note that not all steel bikes are "vintage". I ride a nice shiny new (ish) modern one.


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jun 2020)

LemonJuice said:


> Am I right in thinking that riding a vintage bike will mean you will feel more of the bumps in the road?
> 
> I’ve read contradictory statements. I’ve read that a steel bike will be more rigid on the roads and I’ve read that a steel bike will make you feel every bump in the road and be more uncomfortable compared to newer bikes.


There are lots of factors and it depends what you're comparing with what....
Frame tubes, geometry, tyre size. OK, sweeping generalisation alert!!

In general people will say that older 'quality steel' frames like say 531 are more flexy and tend to absorb bumps better than modern stiffer bikes. My 531 framed road bikes are more forgiving than my 853 Rourke - I am considering to fit a 531 fork to this frame to make it a bit smoother on our modern shitty roads
Quality steel tends to be more forgiving than aluminium which while light and stiff can be a bit vibey.
Carbon fibre can be made to have all kinds of properties....
But, within my stable I have a mid 80s 531 MTB tubing MTB bike which when on fat off-road tyres will still shake your fillings-out and a 90s Colombus Nivachrome steel Omega road-bike which was like riding a hammer drill....


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## SkipdiverJohn (5 Jun 2020)

Ride comfort and frame material is a far from straightforward subject, and is far more nuanced than a simple calculation of frame stiffness against rider weight. 
I strongly suspect that much of the perceived good or bad ride qualities actually derive from the resonant signature of each structural element of a frame and the vibration transmission behaviour of the frame as a complete entity.. It could well just be a happy accident that the vibration transmission in highly respected materials such as 531 just happens to be benign, when the original design brief was primarily to save weight for sporting purposes.


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## roley poley (5 Jun 2020)

when I read old stories of cycle travel they often have to get the bike frame fixed at a blacksmiths or welded by some local they could do that with steel as you can now ...you will be bug***ed with an aluminium one today .so I suppose the big difference is repairability


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## Hover Fly (5 Jun 2020)

Having ridden steel bikes in 531, 753 and both OS and standard (skinny) 631 and 853, I wouldn’t worry about the number, but oversize definitely is an improvement for their heavyweight at least.


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## fossyant (5 Jun 2020)

My two 1990's bikes certainly aren't slow or heavy. Weigh 9kg for a steel bike. Has indexed down tube shifters. They are slightly more comfy than my alloy framed bike. The best bike was hand built for me and is Dura Ace equipped and it a delight to ride.


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## Venod (5 Jun 2020)

I acknowledge that some frames are stiffer than others and different geometry and construction makes for different riding characteristics, but after years of riding all manner of frames with different materials and geometry, I have found the biggest improvement to comfort is bigger tyres with lower PSI, tubeless improves the ride even more.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jun 2020)

Venod said:


> after years of riding all manner of frames with different materials and geometry, I have found the biggest improvement to comfort is bigger tyres with lower PSI, tubeless improves the ride even more.



Whilst I would generally agree that wider tyres run at lower pressures make for a more comfortable ride, this does not explain why my Raleigh Royal 531 frame is still more comfortable on 1 1/8" wide tyres than my steel framed hybrids running 35/38mm tyres at only two thirds of the pressure. The Royal is smoother than even my Raleigh Gemini on 35mm tyres, which has 531 main tubes, although the fork is hi-tensile. 
I really must build up my 1987-ish Ian May full 531ST tourer frame and see how that rides compared to the Royal. I'd expect it to ride well, but I'll be surprised if it is any more comfortable as the ST spec tubes are slightly thicker walled than regular 531.


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## Gunk (6 Jun 2020)

I’ve just sold a 531 framed Royal and the buyer quickly took it around the block and couldn’t believe how smooth and comfortable it was. Compared with a modern alloy or even carbon bike they just seem to soak up the bumps. If it had been slightly smaller I would have hung on to it, it was that good to ride.







I’m tempted to reframe my Aluminium road bike with a Genesis Equilibrium 725 steel frame if I can find a decent used one which is my size, I think I’d then have the best of both worlds.


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