# Little Ring v Big Ring



## Shadow (22 Apr 2013)

Last year in the commentary during one of the Tours, Harmon and Kelly were saying use the Little Ring for Training and the Big Ring for Racing. Or was it the other way round? I can't remember!
I'm not going racing any time soon but now spring appears to have arrived I would like to do some 'proper' training. Which way round is it and what is the thinking/logic behind it?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Apr 2013)

Ignore that twat. If you have the CV fitness to use the big ring then theres no reason bar the steepest hills to not do so.


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## Hacienda71 (22 Apr 2013)

If you are going to do a short TT there is a school of thought you should either not ride the day before or go for a very gentle ride using the small ring. Don't go out for a long blast turning a big gear.
That said you need to practice riding at close to TT speeds when training so your body is used to that type of exertion. Just have a break for a couple of days before.


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## Pedrosanchezo (22 Apr 2013)

In it's most basic form you should be riding the cadence which allows the highest efficiency. The average rider might pedal around 85-90 rpm. some will be faster and some will be slower. Every rider is different. The main thing is that you try many variations and find out which works for you. Then with this information you can do specific training such as low cadence power efforts and high cadence spinning. Both are equally important in training for speed and power. Mix it up and don't stick to one type of riding.

For a quick example my most efficient cadence is between 80-85rpm. I can comfortably spin up to 120rpm then after that it becomes much less efficient. I can take my cadence as low as 40-50rpm on a climb and still be efficient as this suits my riding style. Others ride high cadence up hills but i find less rpm and more power is my most efficient technique. Usually between 50-70rpm depending on gradient. 

Try out a few different ideas and see what you like best. See how your body responds during the effort and afterwards. Even the next day, how do you recover. Eventually you will know exactly what works for you. Bottom line is no one can tell you how to ride your bike.

Either way, good luck with the training. ASAP. Summers nearly here.


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## edindave (22 Apr 2013)

I used to spend most of the time in the small ring, aiming for high-ish cadence (well for me, 90rpm).
But lately I've been spending more time in the big ring, at a lower cadence, just catching the pedal strokes. Sometimes this feels like a more efficient use of energy, rather than my legs going like a blender. 
Just a personal observation by the way, I don't race.


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## number3 (22 Apr 2013)

I was advised on a recent try-a-tri course to aim for roughly 90 RPM. The advice was given by people that have taken part in ironman comps and seemed to know what they were talking about.


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## Garz (23 Apr 2013)

It also depends on the conditions, I found that when I'm heading into a gale a lower gear spinning and using the drops for better aero is more efficient saving tons of energy. I'm by no means a spinner with an average of 82rpm on most rides but it was an example of where spinning pays off.


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## Rob3rt (23 Apr 2013)

That advice (that the OP refers to) completely baffles me. If you race then your training should become increasingly race like as the event gets closer. If you train completely different to how you race, you will get good at your training but suck at racing!


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## Ningishzidda (23 Apr 2013)

Pedrosanchezo has it.
Work on efficiency.
Use the gear combination ( with acceptable chainline ) which results in the lowest heartrate for the situation.
Don't try to copy someone else.

Hacienda71. 
My warm-up for a TT is a nice gentle hour at no more than 3/4 power efforts until the whole depth of my muscle is capilliary dialated.
In training sessions however, I attempt to be more powerful than the previuos session.


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## tyred (23 Apr 2013)

All the way down through the years, the advice was to spin the low gears for training. Charles Holland, the first British rider to ride in the TDF trained for the event on a 58" fixed wheel.

Isn't Eddie Merckx on record as saying something along the lines that if you can't spin the low gears, you certainly won't spin the big ones.


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Apr 2013)

A lot depends on what it is you are training for... targeting a club 10 mile TT would require different training to, say, riding 100 miles every day for a fortnight.

So what is your goal?


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## fossyant (23 Apr 2013)

Big ring everywhere, unless it's a big hill, and none of this compact or tripple chainset namby pamby stuff. 53 x 39 grrrr


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## 400bhp (23 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> Big ring everywhere, unless it's a big hill, and none of this compact or tripple chainset namby pamby stuff. 53 x 39 grrrr


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## 400bhp (23 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Pedrosanchezo has it.
> Work on efficiency.
> Use the gear combination ( with acceptable chainline ) which results in the lowest heartrate for the situation.
> Don't try to copy someone else.
> ...


 
what does that mean in English?

I've got norfolk en idea what constitutes a sensible warm up before cycling, what I do know is that my body seems to take an age before it feels right to get the blood flowing and legs working properly. I'm conditioned to do long efforts I think, although I'm looking to do short TT's (10 miles). Thoughts?


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## Sittingduck (23 Apr 2013)

It's very personalised. I would try out as many combinations and techniques as possible and move forward from there. Pedro's post pretty much covers it, IMHO.


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## VamP (23 Apr 2013)

The stuff TV commentators say, eh....


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## Peter Armstrong (23 Apr 2013)

Had a quick read of the comments, Iron men will have a high cadence for efficient riding as they have some distance to cover, however shorter sprint distances you may well be going more for speed over efficiency.


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## Hacienda71 (23 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> what does that mean in English?
> 
> I've got norfolk en idea what constitutes a sensible warm up before cycling, what I do know is that my body seems to take an age before it feels right to get the blood flowing and legs working properly. I'm conditioned to do long efforts I think, although I'm looking to do short TT's (10 miles). Thoughts?


 
It means you ride at a lower level of effort until all the blood vessels in your legs are dilated enough to allow your muscles to work at maximum efficiency, i.e. supplied with plenty of red oxygenated blood cells. I think. 

Or put very simply don't hammer it until you have fully warmed up cos you won't go as fast.


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## Rob3rt (23 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> what does that mean in English?
> 
> I've got norfolk en idea what constitutes a sensible warm up before cycling, what I do know is that my body seems to take an age before it feels right to get the blood flowing and legs working properly. I'm conditioned to do long efforts I think, although I'm looking to do short TT's (10 miles). Thoughts?


 
Ride for 15 mins at lower aerobic intensity, then ride for 5 minutes at threshold. Then ride easy again for 5 minutes. Then commence your suffering! See how that works out for you.

With regards to pre-race resting, if you race regularly (i.e. every weekend) then you simply can not go into each race rested (if you intend to improve over time), you just wouldn't be able to get a solid block of training in as you would spend too much time resting. Also racing short time trials does not generate a high training load (even if you finish on your knees, dry heaving and seeing double), so by resting for the event, you miss out on training load in the build up, then by racing, you only generate a small load, that is two days of your training week compromised. I structure my training week so the hardest two days are Tuesday and Wednesday, Thursday is quite easy and Friday I do a pre-race tune up which tends to involve about 45 mins riding at an aerobic intensity with mixed efforts either at or just above race intensity thrown in. This won't detriment your race performance if you are fit (if it detriments your performance, you weren't race fit, train some more)!

The actual warm up itself should include some hard efforts, for a TT, I ride for 15 minutes in aerobic zone, building to tempo, then ride hard for 3x2 minutes with a 2-5 minute rest in between, then continue at tempo, then reduce back down to aerobic zone and ride at this zone until a couple of minutes before I am due to start. This provides a thorough warm up that will increase performance, and it also serves to generate some training load!


As for the quote in the OP, it is a load of old crap! Train like you race and race like your train, i.e. specificity is a key component in an effective training plan!


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## 400bhp (23 Apr 2013)

Thanks and I agree rob, not worth resting for short TT's IF you normally do a lot of miles.


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## GrasB (23 Apr 2013)

A hill climbing/<25km TT warm up:
* 5 min at just bellow active recovery threshold
* 5-10 min a bit above active recovery threshold
* 10 min at a casual cruise
* 5 min pace ramp up to about 95% race effort
* 5 min casual cruise including a 60-90s effort ramp down
* 60-90s ramp up to about 105% race effort, hold for about 2 min.
* Ramp down to 80% over 60s or so.

You should now be sweating a little bit with controlled breathing, your heard beating quickly but not pounding & nothing feeling like it's about to jump out of your chest. Your legs feel really lose & full of power.

Now this is where I diverge from what most people do.
* 5 min at just under LT
* 5 seconds at 90% flat out sprint effort (this means about 50% of all out sprinting power)
* 2 min at LT (marginally higher effort than pre-power interval)
* 5 seconds at 90% flat out sprint effort 
* 5 min at just under FTP effort level.
* a 60s-90s ramp down to active recovery pace & hold for a few min

At this point get off the bike remove all but your race clothing (if it's cold I'll throw on some tracky bottoms until I'm just about to walk up to the start) & start your in-race nutrition schedule. At this point check the bike over & do all those final prep checks.. water in bottles, gells in pockets, etc… also get to the start line.

So for a <40 min hill climb or TT I'll do about 1h of warm up.


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## ianwoodi (23 Apr 2013)

big ring every time only small ring for hills


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## Shadow (23 Apr 2013)

Thanks for all the replies guys, some useful stuff there.

Pedro: makes sense to me, thanks.
edindave: partly the situation I've found myself in recently, hence the post.
Greg: goals? Good question. More 100 miles for 2 days rather than 10 mile TT - neither will be happening soon.
Fossy, ian & others: I wish!!!


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## Ningishzidda (24 Apr 2013)

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roa2012-Licence-Categories-2012--Road---Track-0

The best age to start training is the very first on this list. Get in a club with a coach who knows what he's talking about.

After ten years when you start racing in Junior, you should know what type of muscle you've got ( and what gear you can push ) and how to warm it up to optimum.


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## Ningishzidda (24 Apr 2013)

Everyone has their own methods, but here's mine.

1/2 hour cruising round looking like a twolley in my aero hat.
Get on the A452 and get it up to 30 mph ( or until LT ).
Cool it for 1/2 mile.
Repeat the 30 mph sprint.
Repeat the 'cool it'.
Keep repeating the sprint until I feel comfortable at over 25 mph for five minutes.
Ride round for 5 miles like a twolley again, until I reach the start of the TT.
Arrive at the start 15 minutes before the start time and sign in, saying 'I feel like a bag of s**t tonight."


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## Ningishzidda (24 Apr 2013)

BTW, before arriving at the start, stop in a quiet lane and empty your bladder, swallow a dose of Creatine capsules, swigged with down some flat full sugar coke with a High5 'Zero' caffeine tab disolved in it.


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## Richard A Thackeray (24 Apr 2013)

It's curious, but I've found (for me anyway) that if I use reasonably similar gear in inches, I find it's far easier to climb on the little ring, but easier to 'roll' on a flat road on the big-ring 

Eg; 39x15 = 69" & 52x19 =73"


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Apr 2013)

Shadow said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys, some useful stuff there.
> 
> Pedro: makes sense to me, thanks.
> edindave: partly the situation I've found myself in recently, hence the post.
> ...


 
Assuming your 100 miles for 2 days isn't to be performed at stage race pace but at something more suited to a chap of mature years....

Get yourself down the library or bookshop and blag one of the various variations on the theme of the long distance cyclists handbook. Everything you need to know is there including lots of guidance on how to 'train'.


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## GrasB (25 Apr 2013)

I think I get it what the commentator was try to say. Most of your training will be shorter higher intensity intervals compared to your race effort (eg to optimise for 1-2h constant effort rides you will be working with 15 min intervals). This means you'll turn bigger gears training than racing.


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## Shadow (25 Apr 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Assuming your 100 miles for 2 days isn't to be performed at stage race pace but at something more suited to a chap of mature years....


Ah, you recognize the type from the mirror...actually a more realistic goal would be a 'Legs of Lead Goes West' type of ride without the dying feeling with 15 km to the end.

p.s. your sig line - shouldn't 'eye' be plural or hast thou been smitten in one?!!


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Apr 2013)

Shadow said:


> Ah, you recognize the type from the mirror...actually a more realistic goal would be a 'Legs of Lead Goes West' type of ride without the dying feeling with 15 km to the end.
> 
> p.s. your sig line - shouldn't 'eye' be plural or hast thou been smitten in one?!!


Pacing, shadow, pacing. And a certain familiarity with the knowledge that those things which feel like dying aboard a bicycle are unlikely to be the real thing. Seriously though; any decent book on long distance stuff will have stacks of advice on how to do something like Legs of.... comfortably with beans in reserve.

I will remain monocular as per the Bard....

Or whether doth my mind, being crown'd with you,
Drink up the monarch's plague, this flattery?
Or whether shall I say, mine eye saith true,
And that your love taught it this alchemy,
To make of monsters and things indigest
Such cherubins as your sweet self resemble,
Creating every bad a perfect best,
As fast as objects to his beams assemble?
O! 'tis the first, 'tis flattery in my seeing,
And my great mind most kingly drinks it up:
Mine eye well knows what with his gust is 'greeing, 
And to his palate doth prepare the cup:
If it be poison'd, 'tis the lesser sin
That mine eye loves it and doth first begin.


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## Shadow (25 Apr 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Pacing, shadow, pacing. .
> 
> I will remain monocular as per the Bard....
> 
> ...


 
Yes, pacing indeed. Know what this is about, just need the experience to put it into practice...and the fitness.

I always felt I would find CC an education but not in Eng Lit.!


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