# Varia rear light worth it?



## Porknz (13 Nov 2021)

Trying to pick out a few items for holiday gifts and thinking about getting the varia rear light to go with the edge 530 I have. Is it worth it?

Thanks!


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## Mike_P (13 Nov 2021)

Having one I would say yes, makes touring rides where you are taking in the surroundings safer due to the alerts of an approaching vehicle and the visual display of how many vehicles are approaching is very useful.


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## Porknz (13 Nov 2021)

Any chance you can give me an idea of what I see on the 530 paired with the varia when a car approaches from the rear?


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## Porknz (14 Nov 2021)

Nevermind! Found a video with the little car icon moving up the side.


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## mikeIow (14 Nov 2021)

I got one after having it recommended & watching a few online reviews: what a game changer!

Used throughout my LEJoG earlier this year (& on around 4,000km rides in total so far).
It let me know about cars often before I’d hear them. 

If I felt it was unsafe to be overtaken (approaching corner or brow of hill, etc), I would wobble out a bit into the road (well before they were ‘on me’) without turning head. That would invariably slow them down.
I felt I enabled me to manage the traffic without having to turn head (which itself leads to a wobble).
Sure, take a glance anyway as you might have… after a while I realised it was so unerringly accurate, I sometimes didn’t turn my head at all. Crazy cyclist, eh 🤪

A top safety device 👍
Mine is paired with my Wahoo Roam (a brilliant nav device, great battery life!) & links up rapidly every time…of course I would expect the same for your Garmin! Not sure how well it works with a Hammerhead.

Note: if all your cycling is in busy city traffic, perhaps less useful: the beeping would be non-stop: mine is all leisure pedalling 😎


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## Mike_P (14 Nov 2021)

Mine has fooled when stopped and about to set off when the alert sounded so waited for a passing vehicle when it was an approaching pedestrian. One day I got a radar low battery message come up on my Wahoo with still some distance to go; an hour later another and it was still working when I got home.


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## mikeIow (14 Nov 2021)

Porknz said:


> Nevermind! Found a video with the little car icon moving up the side.


Like this on my Roam? (how it looks with two cars almost behind me)





like


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## kenmiles (16 Nov 2021)

Got one a couple of weeks ago and love it.


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## Big T (25 Nov 2021)

Had mine for over a year and it’s been well worth it. If cycling in a group, several people can pair to the Varia and they all get the warning of cars approaching from behind. When riding with my wife, she has the Varia as she normally rides at the back, but we both get the traffic warnings. A bonus for me is that I know if she has been dropped because I get a “Radar disconnected ” warning if she falls more that 30m behind me. The radar picks up cars from 150m distance and the warning shows distance behind, speed of approach, and number of cars approaching.


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## Ridgeway (25 Nov 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Mine has fooled when stopped and about to set off when the alert sounded so waited for a passing vehicle when it was an approaching pedestrian. One day I got a radar low battery message come up on my Wahoo with still some distance to go; an hour later another and it was still working when I got home.



The low battery alert on a Wahoo is effectively because Wahoo and Garmin don't talk perfectly to each other. What's happening is that once the Varia battery gets to 75% it sends a notification to the Wahoo which understands it is "low" and hence it gives out the only message it can. On a Garmin head unit you can actually see the % battery level of the Varia, but not on Wahoo.

In the end a Varia will last 6-8hrs in regular mode.


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## Mike_P (25 Nov 2021)

Ridgeway said:


> The low battery alert on a Wahoo is effectively because Wahoo and Garmin don't talk perfectly to each other. What's happening is that once the Varia battery gets to 75%


Seems to be lower than that given the level of the battery around a hour and s half later.


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## Ridgeway (25 Nov 2021)

It sends out a message at 75, 50 and 25%, all messages result in "low radar battery".


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## Mike_P (27 Nov 2021)

Issue resolved, Garmin 530 purchased while Amazon are giving them away cheap. Bought really for its rerouting function for when I invariably miss a turning


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## HLaB (3 Dec 2021)

Porknz said:


> Trying to pick out a few items for holiday gifts and thinking about getting the varia rear light to go with the edge 530 I have. Is it worth it?
> 
> Thanks!


I would have been one of those cynics, why do you have to spend £100+ for something that'll do the same for free (a quick shoulder check). However, having actually got one I'd say its definitely worth it. You can concentrate on the road/hazard ahead and you are not surprised by something from behind that glance might have missed (speeding traffic/ something pulling out of a side road etc). You can gauge how cars are approaching, fast or slow and how many. Its supposed to react to car so as to catch the eye of the driver too. Also when there's nothing there and it lets you know you can relax and enjoy your ride more. 

Touchwood I've never had it miss anything, it has recorded a few false positives as it goes on speed differential (other riders in your pack going the same speed don't set it off), if you are stopped though a pedestrian can set it off or an advantage an attacking rider can set it off.


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## Porknz (4 Dec 2021)

Okay, found my new helmet and my new glasses for christmas presents, but am going to get the varia headlight and rear light before outdoor season starts up in the spring again then. Thanks guys!


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## New Horizon (10 Dec 2021)

Had mine 6 months or so - one of the best pieces of kit I've ever bought. As well as everything said above, another big bonus is to be able to know how many cars are closing in (max of 8 I think) - ok, you can hear a car coming up behind, but you don't know if and how many more are behind it. You can catch it out if a vehicle (or cyclist) is sitting behind you at the same speed you're moving - I have a short, very winding, section of road near me, cars can't pass, they have to follow behind me - quite often they drop off the screen as they drive at my speed, but soon reappear as their speed picks up.


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## Scaleyback (11 Dec 2021)

I am 75 in a couple of weeks. I ride regularly on the roads and am very conscious of my safety as I get older. Entirely natural I believe. I have owned a Varia for nigh on 3 years and I now consider this 'essential kit' I wouldn't be without it. I ride on rural roads mainly with relatively light traffic and the Varia is perfect for these conditions. I'm not sure how useful the Varia would be in busy traffic, in towns etc ? I imagine it would be 'chirping' away almost constantly. Also be aware the Varia is 'triggered' by speed differentials therefore if the traffic following you is traveling at the same speed as the cyclist, (quite possible in heavy traffic) it will disappear off the Varia.


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## alex_cycles (11 Dec 2021)

Had one for two years. Wouldn't be without it now. Very expensive, but very helpful. There are a few places I regularly ride that give a consistent false positive and as others have said, if a car approaches you then matches your speed it will 'disappear' from view until it speeds up again to pass you. But they're excellent for waking you up in the countryside when you haven't seen a car for 20 minutes and one comes up behind.


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## HLaB (11 Dec 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> Had one for two years. Wouldn't be without it now. Very expensive, but very helpful. There are a few places I regularly ride that give a consistent false positive and as others have said, if a car approaches you then matches your speed it will 'disappear' from view until it speeds up again to pass you. But they're excellent for waking you up in the countryside when you haven't seen a car for 20 minutes and one comes up behind.


When a driver does that (matches your speed and appears to disappear), I think it doesn't show the green light until they actually pass.


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## Ridgeway (11 Dec 2021)

HLaB said:


> When a driver does that (matches your speed and appears to disappear), I think it doesn't show the green light until they actually pass.



That seems to be correct from my experience.

As i often ride in places where i don't live and therefore don't know the roads, traffic and even the local car-bike culture then i find having the Varia very reassuring


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## Mike_P (11 Dec 2021)

Two improvements that could be done is for the light to have options other than a fixed red and the displayed info to have an option of having the actual number of approaching vehicles shown


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## alex_cycles (11 Dec 2021)

HLaB said:


> When a driver does that (matches your speed and appears to disappear), I think it doesn't show the green light until they actually pass.



I'm pretty sure that sometimes it beeps again when they speed up to pass you. Perhaps it's a function of how long they've been there "cloaked" or how fast they're accelerating? Not sure really.



Mike_P said:


> Two improvements that could be done is for the light to have options other than a fixed red and the displayed info to have an option of having the actual number of approaching vehicles shown



Mine has at least four light modes OFF, ON, Daytime flash and Nighttime flash. Unless the light is OFF it flashes with increasing frequency as a car approaches you. As far as the number is concerned it's up to 8 dots which gives you a visual impression of how far back each car is. I think that's more useful than just a number, but maybe it would be nice to have the choice.


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## Mike_P (11 Dec 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> mine has at least four light modes OFF, ON, Daytime flash and Nighttime flash.


 um... So it should (and IIRC did) need to investigate


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## HLaB (11 Dec 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> I'm pretty sure that sometimes it beeps again when they speed up to pass you. Perhaps it's a function of how long they've been there "cloaked" or how fast they're accelerating? Not sure really.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine has at least four light modes OFF, ON, Daytime flash and Nighttime flash. Unless the light is OFF it flashes with increasing frequency as a car approaches you. As far as the number is concerned it's up to 8 dots which gives you a visual impression of how far back each car is. I think that's more useful than just a number, but maybe it would be nice to have the choice.


Yip, it does beep again when they accelerate (two beeps IIRC and the closer they are the faster the acceleration maybe). But it doesn't go green until they've passed. If you have been monitoring it and an orange dot disappears it's either another cyclist or a driver that has matched your speed.

I prefer to use the swipe down menu on the edge so you know its flashing, solid or peleton mode. I particularly want to switch to the latter when riding in a group but by push button it's hard for me to tell what mode it is in


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## HLaB (11 Dec 2021)

Mike_P said:


> um... So it should (and IIRC did) need to investigate


Do you have the German model? To comply with German law, it doesn't flash.


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## alex_cycles (11 Dec 2021)

HLaB said:


> Yip, it does beep again when they accelerate (two beeps IIRC and the closer they are the faster the acceleration maybe). But it doesn't go green until they've passed. If you have been monitoring it and an orange dot disappears it's either another cyclist or a driver that has matched your speed.



or turned off. A few times I've looked round and realised there's nothing there any more, when thinking there was still something behind.



HLaB said:


> I prefer to use the swipe down menu on the edge so you know its flashing, solid or peleton mode. I particularly want to switch to the latter when riding in a group but by push button it's hard for me to tell what mode it is in



My head unit's not a touchscreen model (don't like them, prefer buttons). My Varia is the slightly older version (bought Dec 2019) just before they introduced peloton mode. I believe you can also change modes with the Varia's power button, but that might not be very helpful while riding.


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## HLaB (11 Dec 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> or turned off. A few times I've looked round and realised there's nothing there any more, when thinking there was still something behind.
> 
> 
> 
> My head unit's not a touchscreen model (don't like them, prefer buttons). My Varia is the slightly older version (bought Dec 2019) just before they introduced peloton mode. I believe you can also change modes with the Varia's power button, but that might not be very helpful while riding.


My head unit displays red lines through the wifi symbol when its powered off. A bit annoying when you've forgot to switch it back on at the cafe and it flashes red 

Yip, when I say push button, I mean the power button; as you say it's not ideal mid ride


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## Mike_P (12 Dec 2021)

HLaB said:


> Do you have the German model? To comply with German law, it doesn't flash.


No - the user forgot how to use it version  As for how well it copes in busy traffic the row of red light stay on and that was where I was thinking a read out of how many vehicles were detected could be better as an option than a graphic represenation that simply almost constantly repeats itself.


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## alex_cycles (12 Dec 2021)

Mike_P said:


> No - the user forgot how to use it version  As for how well it copes in busy traffic the row of red light stay on and that was where I was thinking a read out of how many vehicles were detected could be better as an option than a graphic represenation that simply almost constantly repeats itself.



Are you using a Wahoo? My Garmin Edge 520 plus has no row of red LEDs. I think there is scope for confusion here because what the user sees on their bike computer depends on what sort of computer it is (or even the separate Varia head unit). What happens on mine looks a bit like this, overlaid on whatever map or data screen you currently have displayed... 

This means three cars approaching quite fast (red), 1 rather close and two more not far behind that. (image swiped from https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/05/garmin-rtl515-rvr315-cycling-radar-review.html - no idea what the VehicleCount thing is)


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## cougie uk (12 Dec 2021)

Vehicle Count: The number of vehicles that come within 98.4 feet (30 m). Garmin Varia radar systems only detect moving vehicles behind you, not parked cars or oncoming traffic


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## Mike_P (13 Dec 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> Are you using a Wahoo? My Garmin Edge 520 plus has no row of red LEDs.


Yes a Elemnt Bolt which has a row of LEDs above its screen. Can get confusing navigating as the same red LEDs get displayed if a turning has been missed. I was only using the Bolt still yesterday as I has not swapped the mount for the one for the new Edge 530 I have


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## mustang1 (13 Dec 2021)

I like it but I don't see why it's any better than a mirror for _my_ purposes. I ride in town where there are loads of cars so it's always warning me. I guess it's more useful on a tour or a ride that involves less cars about.

I love the way you can just power on the garmin and all f+r lights come on as well and it auto-adjusts the brightness and intensity etc.


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## Mike_P (13 Dec 2021)

I agree on busy roads wanting to do a right hand turn a mirror is the better option but all round generally the Varia has a lot of benefits.


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## Mike_P (24 Jan 2022)

The vehicle count add on (My Bike Radar Traffic) for the Garmin actually has a number of more useful displays than just summing up how cars have passed you. You need to go into IQ Apps in Garmin Express (with the Garmin attached to the pc), right click on the app and choose Settings (a typical clear as mud Garmin arrangment) and you can pick a number alternative to be displayed, one or more -
Display Approach Speed (Relative)
Display Vehicle Speed (Absolute)
Display Last Vehicle Speed (Absolute)
Display Lap Total


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## alex_cycles (24 Jan 2022)

Mike_P said:


> The vehicle count add on (My Bike Radar Traffice) for the Garmin actually has a number of more useful displays than just summing up how cars have passed you. You need to go into IQ Apps in Garmin Express (with the Garmin attached to the pc), right click on the app and choose Settings (a typical clear as mud Garmin arrangment) and you can pick a number alternative to be displayed, one or more -
> Display Approach Speed (Relative)
> Display Vehicle Speed (Absolute)
> Display Last Vehicle Speed (Absolute)
> Display Lap Total



Isn't it better/easier to just do it from the Garmin Connect IQ website without plugging into your computer?
(It will then download via your phone and Bluetooth - just like updates and ride data - unless you have a really old Garmin Edge)

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/c5d949c3-9acb-4e00-bb2d-c3b871e9e733

Or have I missed the point? Can it not be configured without Garmin Express (which I barely ever use)?


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## Mike_P (24 Jan 2022)

Probably - had the laptop, a cable and the Garmin to hand


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## Mark pallister (25 Jan 2022)

I’ve the older version about 3years now 
I cycle around 10,000 mls a tear and always use it 
battery still lasts about 8hrs depending on the amount of city cycling 
wouldn’t be without one now ,safety wise I reckon it’s the best thing you can spend your cash on


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## Sittingduck (25 Jan 2022)

I have very recently purchased one of these and it is excellent, I mustard mitt.
Paired faultlessly with an Element Bolt but I have disabled the top row LED's from notifying vehicles and directional turns - mine just indicate HR zones and nothing else.


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## cougie uk (25 Jan 2022)

Does anyone just use the night radar only version? I have a rear light already so this would be a cheaper option. 

https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/garmin...aJtuwizGEtAlWZCmAPRV7PZZXw9TJ4dRoCX7EQAvD_BwE

(Need to check if that site is kosher by the way)


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## Milkfloat (25 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Does anyone just use the night radar only version? I have a rear light already so this would be a cheaper option.
> 
> https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/garmin...aJtuwizGEtAlWZCmAPRV7PZZXw9TJ4dRoCX7EQAvD_BwE
> 
> (Need to check if that site is kosher by the way)


The light is actually very good and one major benefit over and above being controllable by the head unit is the fact that the flashing pattern changes as cars approach which hopefully helps alert the driver even more.


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## Sittingduck (25 Jan 2022)

I considered the no-light option before purchasing but quite glad I went for the full fat version. The light is very bright and dynamically changes, apparently but also, it means just a single device to charge instead of radar and a light. I would highly recommend this piece of kit!


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## cougie uk (25 Jan 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> The light is actually very good and one major benefit over and above being controllable by the head unit is the fact that the flashing pattern changes as cars approach which hopefully helps alert the driver even more.


I do have a see sense Icon light that does change its pattern based on what's behind me so I'm not sure if I would get the benefit of the flashing.


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## Milkfloat (25 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I do have a see sense Icon light that does change its pattern based on what's behind me so I'm not sure if I would get the benefit of the flashing.


I binned my SeeSense for the Varia - but then again the SeeSense was so bad I would have binned for for a poundland light.


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## kenmiles (25 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Does anyone just use the night radar only version? I have a rear light already so this would be a cheaper option.
> 
> https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/garmin...aJtuwizGEtAlWZCmAPRV7PZZXw9TJ4dRoCX7EQAvD_BwE
> 
> (Need to check if that site is kosher by the way)


Yes it is OK. Have bought off them but dispatch is a bit on the slow side.


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## cougie uk (25 Jan 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I binned my SeeSense for the Varia - but then again the SeeSense was so bad I would have binned for for a poundland light.


Really? Mine has been great for me. What was up with yours ?


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## Milkfloat (25 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Really? Mine has been great for me. What was up with yours ?


Mainly the battery is always flat when I want to use it, but also the app / connection is flakey and the promised Garmin Ant+ intefration never worked. On the plus side it is pretty bright.


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## HLaB (25 Jan 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> The light is actually very good and one major benefit over and above being controllable by the head unit is the fact that the flashing pattern changes as cars approach which hopefully helps alert the driver even more.


When I ride with a group its quite handy to put it into 'Peleton' mode and if I remember switch back after I've left to 'blinding' mode. One group I ride with also insist on 'solid lights and I prefer flashing so its similarly handy to switch the modes easy and know exactly what mode I'm in


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## mustang1 (26 Jan 2022)

Vario rear light: yeah it's good but I'd only get it if you're bored and fancy buying something. More sophistacated than a mirror and less gaudy-looking too but I can't see enough of a reason to really buy one. But overall, yes it's good and does it's job well.


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## HLaB (26 Jan 2022)

mustang1 said:


> Vario rear light: yeah it's good but I'd only get it if you're bored and fancy buying something. More sophistacated than a mirror and less gaudy-looking too but I can't see enough of a reason to really buy one. But overall, yes it's good and does it's job well.


No blind spots and consistency (not affected by vibrations, other's lights, greater night time visibility etc) are big things to me. I would have been a naesayer (why do I need to spend £150 on something I could get for free, a shoulder check or cheap, a mirror) but until you actually get a Varia you don't really realise how good it is and why there was dozens of reasons to buy it 👍


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## alex_cycles (26 Jan 2022)

HLaB said:


> No blind spots and consistency (not affected by vibrations, other's lights, greater night time visibility etc) are big things to me. I would have been a naesayer (why do I need to spend £150 on something I could get for free, a shoulder check or cheap, a mirror) but until you actually get a Varia you don't really realise how good it is and why there was dozens of reasons to buy it 👍



I was sceptical to begin with, but others in the club had them so could see how good they were. Then what sealed the deal was a Black Friday offer for £100 in 2019 (down from £150ish). Don't like riding on the roads without it now. I think they're very expensive at the full £170 though, but I'd probably still replace it if I lost it or it broke.


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## mustang1 (26 Jan 2022)

HLaB said:


> No blind spots and consistency (not affected by vibrations, other's lights, greater night time visibility etc) are big things to me. I would have been a naesayer (why do I need to spend £150 on something I could get for free, a shoulder check or cheap, a mirror) but until you actually get a Varia you don't really realise how good it is and why there was dozens of reasons to buy it 👍


I have a varia. Those are good reasons but with a few caveats. I _think _the varia will not pick up a car that is following you at exactly the speed you are riding because it needs to bounce it's radar waves on things that have a different speed.
But, it is _very_ good and I'm glad I got it.


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## alex_cycles (26 Jan 2022)

mustang1 said:


> I have a varia. Those are good reasons but with a few caveats. I _think _the varia will not pick up a car that is following you at exactly the speed you are riding because it needs to bounce it's radar waves on things that have a different speed.
> But, it is _very_ good and I'm glad I got it.



Yes. Correct.But it will pick up the car getting to that place in the first place. 

It's designed not to beep under those circumstances in case you are cycling with other riders. But if a car is trailing you for a long time you have to be aware. It will then beep again when the car accelerates to pass you.


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## HLaB (26 Jan 2022)

alex_cycles said:


> I was sceptical to begin with, but others in the club had them so could see how good they were. Then what sealed the deal was a Black Friday offer for £100 in 2019 (down from £150ish). Don't like riding on the roads without it now. I think they're very expensive at the full £170 though, but I'd probably still replace it if I lost it or it broke.


I forget exactly how much I paid for it but it was the same story a few had them and one of them pointed the rest of us to a Black Friday deal in 2019 and if it was broke/stolen I'd probably replace it too


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## cougie uk (27 Jan 2022)

Thanks chaps. I think I'll put it on a price watch and swoop when it's on offer.


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## Mike_P (27 Jan 2022)

I got mine via eBay, it wasn't the cheapest priced but there was a eBay % discount on and bags of additional nectar points which made it the cheapest.


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## Milkfloat (27 Jan 2022)

One top tip if you are thinking about getting one is to ride in a group with someone who has one, because the Varia uses ANT+ you can connect to multiple headunits simultaneously. I was the first in my group to get one and one by one everyone connected to mine to test it out, over the next few months every single one of my Sunday group purchased their own through my partner account.


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## kingrollo (27 Jan 2022)

The older square light can be had for approx £40 used on eBay. Good enough for me.


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## Solocle (12 Jun 2022)

I went and bought a Varia 715.
















Very impressive from what I've seen so far.


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## alex_cycles (12 Jun 2022)

Solocle said:


> I went and bought a Varia 715.
> 
> Very impressive from what I've seen so far.



Would love one, but £350 is an awful lot for that


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## kingrollo (12 Jun 2022)

alex_cycles said:


> Would love one, but £350 is an awful lot for that



Jesus I brought the square one - used for £40.

What extra features does this £350 have ?


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## Solocle (12 Jun 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Jesus I brought the square one - used for £40.
> 
> What extra features does this £350 have ?



Real estate, primarily. I don't have space for a dynamo light, cycliq fly 6 (old one I got for £25 off ebay), and a varia too. Even now it's tight, I'm looking at a saddlebag mounting for the dynamo.

Having it all in one package is a gamechanger for me, as it means I can use the varia, and then still have a spare camera light on really long rides. Image quality is substantially better too.

Since I've gone from no varia, it made sense for me.


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## alex_cycles (12 Jun 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Jesus I brought the square one - used for £40.
> 
> What extra features does this £350 have ?



It's a rear-facing camera, radar and light all in one. DC Rainmaker wasn't very impressed with the value proposition either. 
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/05/garmin-rct715-varia-rearview-bikelight-radar-camera-review.html


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## kingrollo (12 Jun 2022)

alex_cycles said:


> It's a rear-facing camera, radar and light all in one. DC Rainmaker wasn't very impressed with the value proposition either.
> https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/05/garmin-rct715-varia-rearview-bikelight-radar-camera-review.html



I like the idea - can't believe it's taken Garmin so long to be honest. I'd want it pretty much plug and play though.


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## Mike_P (12 Jun 2022)

They probably had it designed yonks ago but writing the overly complex and confusing standard Garmin software for it took ages. The crazy Bluetooth to the app to get a battery reading has stopped working on mine, not sure if it's the phone or the Varia but been though all steps again to get them to talk together without luck.


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## alex_cycles (12 Jun 2022)

kingrollo said:


> I like the idea - can't believe it's taken Garmin so long to be honest. I'd want it pretty much plug and play though.



I'd want a top-notch camera for the kind of money though since it's £180 more than the Varia without camera. It doesn't have image stabilisation


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## mikeIow (12 Jun 2022)

alex_cycles said:


> I'd want a top-notch camera for the kind of money though since it's £180 more than the Varia without camera. It doesn't have image stabilisation



Curious…..that is a bit of a downer. I have been massively impressed with my 515, but you would expect a reasonable camera for double the price!


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## mikeIow (11 Oct 2022)

november4 said:


> Amazon has garmin radar tail light on sale again, £119 when you click
> 
> Garmin Varia RTL515 Rearview Cycling Radar and Tail Light, UK​
> 
> View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08FTH4435?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=digidip03-21



That is a great price!


Slick said:


> I've thought about it a couple of times, but just can't convince myself it would be useful.


Unless all your cycling is in cities or busy towns, I would say this is the most amazing cycle safety device 💪

Pair with a Garmin or Wahoo (I have a Roam) & you get incredible heads up without moving your head on what is happening behind. Can’t recommend it highly enough, & the reviews I read all came to the same conclusion: lots of “I was sceptical but won’t be cycling without one”. Which I firmly agree with 😎👍

The camera model, on the other hand, gets roundly panned for being rubbish…..


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## cougie uk (11 Oct 2022)

+1 for the radar. I paid almost that much just for the radar unit the other month. Incredibly useful on the road.


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## Slick (12 Oct 2022)

mikeIow said:


> That is a great price!
> 
> 
> Unless all your cycling is in cities or busy towns, I would say this is the most amazing cycle safety device 💪
> ...



I commute in very mixed circumstances, which is why I thought about it as I don't mind cycling the first few miles in the morning but the last few miles at night are murder because of the traffic. 

I think I will give it a go then, if you recommend it.


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## Slick (12 Oct 2022)

Looks like I'll have it tomorrow.


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## mikeIow (12 Oct 2022)

Slick said:


> I commute in very mixed circumstances, which is why I thought about it as I don't mind cycling the first few miles in the morning but the last few miles at night are murder because of the traffic.
> 
> I think I will give it a go then, if you recommend it.



It will go a bit mad with traffic, but really, really useful in all other circumstances.
I paid £40 more & still feel it was value for me. 
Used for 19d LEJoG and also a 7 day ride this year (see sig x the broken limb wasn’t mine 😉), as well as countless 1 day rides, mostly countryside.

I found it always gave great warnings. 
If a car was ‘red’ (coming fast), I might ‘wobble’ a bit: the red light changes from a regular flash to a more insistent flash, & drivers always slowed.

If approaching a hazard (brow of hill, or somewhere I felt they should not overtake me), I might chose to move more into the road.
At some stage I might check behind me, but honestly, after some usage I came to trust it a LOT to help me, & when you do NOT look over your shoulder, cars tend to behave more (maybe they think you are deaf or old….half true for me!).

Just IMHO, of course: heavy traffic lessens the value as it will always trigger. I never cycle without mine on now! 2 years in….


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## Mike_P (12 Oct 2022)

Do not have a problem in traffic with mine, it initially bleeps, the display bar goes orange or red and stays so with the graphics of vehicles moving along it. You only get further bleeping if their is gap in the traffic. When it goes green it gives a good clue that it's likely to be easy to attempt that right turn coming up.


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## november4 (12 Oct 2022)

I use it just with the free ridewithgps app, which is good but when on cycle lanes running parallel to dual carriage way I toggle off the connection to the unit to inhibit the audio alarm, as the radar beam has wide spread 

On actual roads that have cars I have it on, it makes country roads so much safer, like having a rear view mirror. Still need to glance behind (side mirror) before turning right, but having warning of car barrelling up country road is so much safer


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## mjr (12 Oct 2022)

november4 said:


> On actual roads that have cars I have it on, it makes country roads so much safer, like having a rear view mirror. Still need to glance behind (side mirror) before turning right, but having warning of car barrelling up country road is so much safer


It might feel safer but I don't know of evidence it is safer. Looking behind occasionally is still a good idea for many reasons. If you need or want a mirror, get one, maybe as well.


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## Mike_P (12 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It might feel safer but I don't know of evidence it is safer. Looking behind occasionally is still a good idea for many reasons. If you need or want a mirror, get one, maybe as well.


Its safer in the context of getting a warning from some distance of an rear approaching vehicle and you can consequently judge your route ahead; which side of a pothole or rough surface to go. Also in busy traffic you know it's pointless looking back for the sake of it and instead you can keep an eye on whatever next the road surface is going to throw at you.


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## mikeIow (13 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Its safer in the context of getting a warning from some distance of an rear approaching vehicle and you can consequently judge your route ahead; which side of a pothole or rough surface to go. Also in busy traffic you know it's pointless looking back for the sake of it and instead you can keep an eye on whatever next the road surface is going to throw at you.



Absolutely this!
It will often warn me of a car approaching well before I hear it. 
As I wrote above, that gives you options on behaviour: approaching a brow of a hill or other unsafe place to be overtaken? Move out a bit, perhaps wobble to make the driver nervous.
@mjr - note the light flashing changes when cars approach: that will inevitably be more likely to catch they eye of a driver than a steady pattern. I’m not sure what kind of evidence you are expecting for this kind of device, but watch some reviews from experienced cyclists: they will confirm the value. For example: 
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LSToPKFwZMw


Mirrors are obviously a cheap option, but only give limited view, only ‘warn’ you when you peer into them, and are also tricky to fit on bars like mine, with the brilliant Ergon GP5 ends.

@Slick - let us know your thoughts after you’ve tried them: I think you got a bargain 👍


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It might feel safer but I don't know of evidence it is safer. Looking behind occasionally is still a good idea for many reasons. If you need or want a mirror, get one, maybe as well.



Definitely I think it's safer than without. Especially for those roads that you are turning right from. No need to have to look behind all of the time. You ride until the radar says there's a gap and THEN you look behind to make sure. 

Much safer than riding along and having to look behind you. 

My riding pal was hooking up to my radar and was so impressed that he bought his own within a month.


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## mikeIow (13 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Definitely I think it's safer than without. Especially for those roads that you are turning right from. No need to have to look behind all of the time. You ride until the radar says there's a gap and THEN you look behind to make sure.
> 
> Much safer than riding along and having to look behind you.
> 
> *My riding pal was hooking up to my radar and was so impressed that he bought his own within a month.*


Same: a good friend bought one the week after seeing mine in action


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

mikeIow said:


> @mjr - note the light flashing changes when cars approach: that will inevitably be more likely to catch they eye of a driver than a steady pattern. I’m not sure what kind of evidence you are expecting for this kind of device, but watch some reviews from experienced cyclists: they will confirm the value.


No, experienced cyclists will confirm their opinion, which will mostly be about feeling. I accept it will make some feel safer but I am not convinced it is safer, evidenced to some level which would allow the claim to be made in an advert. Casualty rates for similar users and non-users, perhaps. Fine if you want to say it makes you feel safer or whatever, but please don't make this thread contain wild claims not even allowed in ads.

And variable flash rate is strictly illegal at present, for good reasons around photosensitivity.


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> No, experienced cyclists will confirm their opinion, which will mostly be about feeling. I accept it will make some feel safer but I am not convinced it is safer, evidenced to some level which would allow the claim to be made in an advert. Casualty rates for similar users and non-users, perhaps. Fine if you want to say it makes you feel safer or whatever, but please don't make this thread contain wild claims not even allowed in ads.
> 
> And variable flash rate is strictly illegal at present, for good reasons around photosensitivity.



So on a fast descent I'd be checking behind me to see if there's a car there. 

With this - I don't need to. The radar always picks up cars. I can keep my eyes on the road. 

Safer.


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## Mike_P (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> variable flash rate is strictly illegal at present, for good reasons around photosensitivity.


It's not variable in the sense of being random, it's still a constant flash but at an increased frequency when a car approaches.


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

After unsupported claims were made in the "bargain" topic:



Mike_P said:


> It's not variable in the sense of being random, it's still a constant flash but at an increased frequency when a car approaches.


It's variable that's illegal, not random. The law requires constant rate.


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> So on a fast descent I'd be checking behind me to see if there's a car there.
> 
> With this - I don't need to. The radar always picks up cars. I can keep my eyes on the road.
> 
> Safer.


Looking behind will always give you more info and be safer, so you should be looking anyway if physically able. 

It doesn't only pick up cars, does it? It'll bIeep for overtaking bikes and motorbikes, even if they pass fairly wide.

It sounds a lot like it enables you to ride descents faster than possible with normal observation. I doubt that's safer in reality, even if it feels like it.


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## Sea of vapours (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It doesn't only pick up cars, does it? It'll bIeep for overtaking bikes and motorbikes, even if they pass fairly wide.


it will. I infer that you're suggesting that that's a bad thing? If so, why? I'm often decidedly more concerned about the roadcraft of people on two wheels compared to those on four or more so that's very much a plus to me. (The fact that it'll pick up pedestrians when the bike's stationary is less useful, though not problematic as such.)


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## alex_cycles (13 Oct 2022)

Sea of vapours said:


> it will. I infer that you're suggesting that that's a bad thing? If so, why?


Because he hasn't got one


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## AlanW (13 Oct 2022)

For those that like lots of data, download the "My Bike Radar" app from the Garmin IQ store then add it to one of your data screens on your Garmin. However, the main problem now is that you are now more likely to run into the back of a parked car because you will be looking at the Garmin all the time analysing all the data of any passing cars!

*Quote:*
_See how many vehicles passed you in a ride. Plus upload your .FIT file after the ride to see exactly where each car passed you. The latest version doesn't require internet access. I am hoping to add an automatic sync feature at some point in the future, but for now you must manually upload your ride to mybiketraffic.com if you want to see the locations and speed data for where cars passed you. *NOTE* you must not only install this app, but ALSO add it as a data field in order for ride data to be recorded during your ride._


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> Looking behind will always give you more info and be safer, so you should be looking anyway if physically able.
> 
> It doesn't only pick up cars, does it? It'll bIeep for overtaking bikes and motorbikes, even if they pass fairly wide.
> 
> It sounds a lot like it enables you to ride descents faster than possible with normal observation. I doubt that's safer in reality, even if it feels like it.



There's no effect on speed. Bit weird to think looking behind you at 40mph+ is safer than ahead tbh ...


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## Milkfloat (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It's variable that's illegal, not random. The law requires constant rate.


That is not my understanding - I thought it it flashed then it had to be between 1 and 4 times a second. I don't think I have ever ready that this cannot vary.


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## Mike_P (13 Oct 2022)

AlanW said:


> For those that like lots of data, download the "My Bike Radar" app from the Garmin IQ store then add it to one of your data screens on your Garmin. However, the main problem now is that you are now more likely to run into the back of a parked car because you will be looking at the Garmin all the time analysing all the data of any passing car


Pointless app IMO - now if it gave a count of how many vehicles were behind that would be useful. Re what is detected it's anything that is moving faster than you so that can include other cyclists


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> That is not my understanding - I thought it it flashed then it had to be between 1 and 4 times a second. I don't think I have ever ready that this cannot vary.


It's not mentioned as often, but it is there: "the light shown by the lamp when flashing shall be displayed not less than 60 nor more than 240 equal times per minute and the intervals between each display of light shall be constant" (RVLR 1989 amended)


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> There's no effect on speed. Bit weird to think looking behind you at 40mph+ is safer than ahead tbh ...


Looking behind sometimes is safer than not. If visibility and your bike handling doesn't allow you to do that comfortably, you're probably going faster than you can really cope with.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It's not mentioned as often, but it is there: "the light shown by the lamp when flashing shall be displayed not less than 60 nor more than 240 equal times per minute and the intervals between each display of light shall be constant" (RVLR 1989 amended)


Is that wording still present in the amendments made in 2005?


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> Looking behind sometimes is safer than not. If visibility and your bike handling doesn't allow you to do that comfortably, you're probably going faster than you can really cope with.



'not looking where you are going is safer than looking where you are going'.

Sure. I'll not be taking your advice.


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## mjr (13 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> 'not looking where you are going is safer than looking where you are going'.
> 
> Sure. I'll not be taking your advice.


Don't take my advice. Looking behind you regularly is Bikeability Level 2. If you can't achieve that, well...!


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## alex_cycles (13 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Is that wording still present in the amendments made in 2005?



or 2017 . The other thing is, even if it's there, do these regulations apply during the day? I choose not to ride in the dark.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2022)

alex_cycles said:


> or 2017 . The other thing is, even if it's there, do these regulations apply during the day? I choose not to ride in the dark.


I was thinking more about when it became legal to have flashing lights on bikes.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> ....And variable flash rate is strictly illegal at present, for good reasons around photosensitivity.


If your skin is sensitive to light, a flashing light isn't that bad. In the scheme of things.


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## mikeIow (13 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> If your skin is sensitive to light, a flashing light isn't that bad. In the scheme of things.



I once had iritis....which is very painful, when the eye is 'photo sensitive' to light. & a torn retina, with subsequent emergency laser surgery: also not great!
BUT....I've not been hit in some decent rides whilst my bike wore the Garmin 

@mjr - I'll drop from this discussion, with big apologies to mods for having to faff with the bargain thread. Maybe one day someone will let you borrow their radar light & your concerns/opinion might change 

I didn't mean to derail: really wanted to just say what a truly great device the 515 is, what a superb price that was, and to share my opinion: for the avoidance of doubt, backed up with precisely zero consumer evidence (because there are no such tests for that sort of cycle device, to my knowledge!), but backed by a few thousand miles (including the tours in my sig), and MANY other reviews which agreed. 
Felt slightly odd the way the discussion turned to illegal flashing, & of course any person is entitled to think the device isn't for them. Suffice to say that Garmin are not total charlatans & I doubt they would sell you an illegal light


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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> It might feel safer but I don't know of evidence it is safer. Looking behind occasionally is still a good idea for many reasons. If you need or want a mirror, get one, maybe as well.



can't help but be doubtful about this thing to be honest.
(and I do a fair amount of night riding on country lanes)
I always look around if about to make any manoeuvre.
And it's not going to stop some nit just mowing me down on a dark country lane because they are a dangerous driver/drunken maniac surely?
What am I supposed to do? Dive in a ditch every time it bleeps?
maybe I'm missing something?


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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Its safer in the context of getting a warning from some distance of an rear approaching vehicle and you can consequently judge your route ahead; which side of a pothole or rough surface to go. Also in busy traffic you know it's pointless looking back for the sake of it and instead you can keep an eye on whatever next the road surface is going to throw at you.



but in busy traffic it's going to be alerting you all the time surely?
(which was why I assume someone on this or an associated thread said it might be useful for non urban riding)


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## Sea of vapours (13 Oct 2022)

It's about increasing situational awareness. It's not a replacement for listening, looking around or using a mirror; it's an *addition* to those things. Of those things, it's the one I'd give up first, but that doesn't mean it's not adding information quite a lot of the time, especially in areas with relatively little traffic where you might not naturally be checking behind you every few seconds. 

And looking around you isn't going to stop someone driving into you either. All these things, however, (looking, listening, radar) will give you more information and perhaps you'll know that, on this particular occasion, 'dive in a ditch' is the best course of action ! More probably, 'move out a bit to force driver to overtake wider' is the right course of action, but it's really all about having more information to act appropriately on.


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## alex_cycles (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> but in busy traffic it's going to be alerting you all the time surely?



Yes if you ride in busy traffic you can use the on-off switch to good effect 

You SHOULD look around still before making any manoeuvre. The point of this device is situational awareness. 
I know something's coming. I know if it's coming fast or slow. I know if there's more than one thing coming (up to 8). I know roughly how far away it is. Knowing all that, I can choose to look round and see if it's a bus, another rider or a Tesla. 

I often will choose to look round when a vehicle approaches as it is thought to be effective in making the driver see you as a human being and not an object - therefore likely to give a bit more space. (Dunno if that's true or not though).


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> can't help but be doubtful about this thing to be honest.
> (and I do a fair amount of night riding on country lanes)
> I always look around if about to make any manoeuvre.
> And it's not going to stop some nit just mowing me down on a dark country lane because they are a dangerous driver/drunken maniac surely?
> ...



I thought the same as you originally. 

Obviously you'll still want to check behind you when you manoeuvres - but what you don't have to do is look behind when you don't. 

So is there a car there - no cos the radar hasn't beeped. 
On a busy road you don't need to keep checking behind before your turn- use the radar and when it tells you it's clear - then you check. 

Probably one of your riding pals has one. You can piggyback any bike computer onto it and take advantage of his sensor. Try it for a ride and see how you feel.


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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> On a busy road you don't need to keep checking behind before your turn- use the radar and when it tells you it's clear - then you check.



sorry - 
You have kinda confirmed to me that it's not a lot of use/potentially dangerous if folk start to rely on it even for an initial check (one step away from disaster)
My bike riding roadcraft is essentially what I learned when learning to drive a car* - look, signal if seems OK, look again before making the manoeuvre.

Even with car mirrors I always looked over my shoulder/to my side before moving out.

(I no longer drive by the way)

* I see this as a mix of self preservation, assertion (I have the same rights as a car) and roadcraft politeness.


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## Sea of vapours (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> not a lot of use/potentially dangerous if folk start to rely on it even for an initial check


Hmmm.... the idea is not 'an initial check'; it's constant situational awareness. There is zero need to 'rely on it'. It's just there providing extra information.


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## kingrollo (13 Oct 2022)

It comes in a great box......safer


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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

Sea of vapours said:


> Hmmm.... the idea is not 'an initial check'; it's constant situational awareness. There is zero need to 'rely on it'. It's just there providing extra information.



mm - sounds like too much info/input to me.
And in any case I would never rely even remotely on any tech to tell me what's around me.
even relying on tech to any degree for such a thing is iffy in my view.
I do hope folk aren't riding with headphones with this.


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> sorry -
> You have kinda confirmed to me that it's not a lot of use/potentially dangerous if folk start to rely on it even for an initial check (one step away from disaster)
> My bike riding roadcraft is essentially what I learned when learning to drive a car* - look, signal if seems OK, look again before making the manoeuvre.
> 
> ...



Just try it as I say.


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## Mike_P (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> but in busy traffic it's going to be alerting you all the time surely?
> (which was why I assume someone on this or an associated thread said it might be useful for non urban riding)


IME you get the audible alert initially and a constant red or orange display with a procession of moving vehicle symbols. The next audible alert is to say it's clear (in its opinion) and the display has gone green. If the display is orange and a faster vehicle approaches an extra audible alert is issued as the display goes red.


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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> IME you get the audible alert initially and a constant red or orange display with a procession of moving vehicle symbols. The next audible alert is to say it's clear (in its opinion) the display has gone green



I may be interested if it can display the eyes of the driver behind.
Plus extra info - like what's playing on their in-car sound system/how they are feeling - alert/angry? chilled? too chilled?


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## Mike_P (13 Oct 2022)




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## Petrichorwheels (13 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


>



well if I get that pic on the screen about the driver behind I'm very definitely diving in the ditch.
Do let me know if they introduce this in the next system upgrade.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> well if I get that pic on the screen about the driver behind I'm very definitely diving in the ditch.
> Do let me know if they introduce this in the next system upgrade.


Half the time looking back "to make eye contact", you're relying on your ears to provide some of the information you want. There's times when you can't see the drivers face because they're not looking in your direction.


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## Mike_P (14 Oct 2022)

Seems to be the thread is split between those who have one and think it is useful and those who do not and do not see the point of them Fundamentally there does not seem to be a group saying they have one and find it pointless.


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## Mo1959 (14 Oct 2022)

I have good hearing and have never yet had a vehicle come up behind me that I wasn't aware of. I am far more concerned that the driver has actually seen me and is not gawping at their phone and the radar wouldn't be much help there.


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## mikeIow (14 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


>



Don’t feed the troll 🤣
Some people form their views of devices based on the need to argue, when they have never used it.
No point trying to explain: they will always bring up some whataboutery to deflect the opposing, fact-based reasoned view.

As per @Mike_P above, “there does not seem to be a group saying they have one and find it pointless.”

It is a daft price, so it it entirely normal that most people don’t have one. That £50 reduction was spectacular: although price runner shows it available for £129. What you don’t have, you don’t miss, but, as I said originally, all reviews I read were by people saying they wouldn’t ride without it now.

To my mind, it is (almost) the cycling equivalent of adaptive cruise control - where it keeps the car a distance from one’s in front, even if they lower their speed. Great safety device, I wouldn’t do without it on a daily driver, but had I never had one, I would have remained perfectly happy with normal cruise control. Others who don’t have it will feel it is an unnecessary luxury, & raise concerns over it failing.


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## cougie uk (14 Oct 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> I have good hearing and have never yet had a vehicle come up behind me that I wasn't aware of. I am far more concerned that the driver has actually seen me and is not gawping at their phone and the radar wouldn't be much help there.



Really? I once had a bus sneak up on me. First I knew about it was a huge shadow looming over me (we were on a hill). 

As I say - see if a friend has one and you can link to their radar from your computer.


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## kingrollo (14 Oct 2022)

The cycle chat forum in general decries all these safety innovations.

And tbf there is a lot of guff out there. 

But I like Varia and miss it on the occasions I don't have it.


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## mjr (14 Oct 2022)

I have tried one on someone else's bike. I think I know two people with them and they have not spread further, which is a shame in some ways because it is amusing when they forget to switch it off on group rides.

Is it a surprise reviews are positive? Not many are going to blow £130+ on it if not already convinced. Same as how you see few bad reviews of even some pretty awful expensive front lights. Emperor's new clothes.


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## Milkfloat (14 Oct 2022)

I have ridden tens of thousands of miles over two versions of the Varia. I would not ride without it and it has never given me a false negative. I get a few false positives which are not too annoying. If my current one broke, I would replace straight away. Of the dozen or so people I ride with regularly only 2 people have not bought one after connecting to mine for a few rides. People are genuinely buying them because they find them useful after testing them. They are not buying them on a whim and then refusing to admit that they are rubbish.


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## Slick (14 Oct 2022)

mikeIow said:


> Absolutely this!
> It will often warn me of a car approaching well before I hear it.
> As I wrote above, that gives you options on behaviour: approaching a brow of a hill or other unsafe place to be overtaken? Move out a bit, perhaps wobble to make the driver nervous.
> @mjr - note the light flashing changes when cars approach: that will inevitably be more likely to catch they eye of a driver than a steady pattern. I’m not sure what kind of evidence you are expecting for this kind of device, but watch some reviews from experienced cyclists: they will confirm the value. For example:
> ...



Its still in the box, but I will certainly let you know.


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## Petrichorwheels (14 Oct 2022)

mikeIow said:


> Don’t feed the troll 🤣
> Some people form their views of devices based on the need to argue, when they have never used it.
> No point trying to explain: they will always bring up some whataboutery to deflect the opposing, fact-based reasoned view.
> 
> ...



not trolling at all - my honest view - you know honest views that exist like in the offline non-techie arena - don't feel i need it - agree with @Mo1959 - the dangers lie elsewhere beyond the current range of tech - am not tech averse - I have 3 garmin etrexes (2 are spares) and was an extremely early adopter of mobile data before most folks realised it was even possible - just feel no need for this - enjoy your cycling.
(but do feel free to alert me when any upgrade will alert a rider to black ice or a pothole on a middle of the night dark country lane)


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## mikeIow (15 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> I may be interested if it can display the eyes of the driver behind.
> Plus extra info - like what's playing on their in-car sound system/how they are feeling - alert/angry? chilled? too chilled?



Not trolling?
Re-read your response here: reads like a load of whataboutery nonsense to me 🤷‍♂️

Never ceases to amuse me when people have ‘honest views’ of kit they have never used. 🤣

Come back when you’ve tried it - as others have suggested - then explain all the reasons you would chose not to use one.

Or feel free to ignore the thread: nobody is forcing anyone to try this 🍻

It is not a replacement for eyes & ears & good cycling habits, but it is a flippin’ great addition….as everyone who uses it has said. Sure, it costs a chunk of money - which was why that short-lived deal was extra great. Good kit sometimes does 😉


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## Petrichorwheels (15 Oct 2022)

hell's teeth. (to a post at 00;55 in the depths of the night)
Am not in the habit of re-reading my own posts - seems the height of vanity to me.
but I took up your kind invitation.
It seems I dared to post as my intro:
>>can't help but be doubtful about this thing to be honest.
shock horror

not trolling - honest thoughts/musings.
Various views exist on all sorts of things in this merry world - and discussions should not be zero-sum games.

I do know that ONE of the signs of the argumentative on the web is scattering of piccies, often yellow.
as I said I am not anti tech at all - I very often wander around with five separate bits of comms/positioning tech* - six if you count my dumbphone - you may think this bonkers - but I definitely wouldn't get defensive/aggressive if you did.
I also very often ride around with tech in my panniers on day rides - ditto I am not going to go ballistic if you have a different opinion/practice/habit.

As to the nice folk (not being sarky) who suggested I try one, don't think I can - if I understand correctly you need a compatible Garmin and am pretty sure that mine isn't. And anyways that in itself would put me off. Personally I stress.
* none of that tells me who/what is behind me I confess.

enjoy your cycling - may your rear remain untouched.
seems the OP went for one - all the best to them.


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## AlanW (16 Oct 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> I have good hearing and have never yet had a vehicle come up behind me that I wasn't aware of.



Really, you must be the only cyclist ever that has said that?? That aside, trust me, with more electric vehicles on the road, you need all the help you can get as to what is coming up behind you.

I've had my Varia rear light a couple of years now, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that they rely on it a 100%, that would be stupid and very dangerous. But it is very useful addition to your own inbuilt sensors just to give you some advance warning way before your hearing would ever pick it up.


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## Ridgeway (16 Oct 2022)

Had mine for about 3yrs. In that time have on occasion gone for a ride and forgotten:

- gloves
- food
- phone
- helmet (don’t ask how)
- front light
- and spare stuff

For some reason I’ve never forgotten my Varia though 😉


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## cougie uk (16 Oct 2022)

Ridgeway said:


> Had mine for about 3yrs. In that time have on occasion gone for a ride and forgotten:
> 
> - gloves
> - food
> ...



Quite impressive. 
I remember a mate of mine setting off with no lens in his Oakley frames one day.


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## Ridgeway (17 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Quite impressive.
> I remember a mate of mine setting off with no lens in his Oakley frames one day.



The most embarrassing one was the helmet. Put my cycling cap and rode off to a club ride and upon arriving got some strange looks. Of course I was convinced it was on my head as I could feel the cap🤣. 

But as others have said wouldn’t leave home without the Varia though unless I’m on my MTB


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## mjr (17 Oct 2022)

AlanW said:


> Really, you must be the only cyclist ever that has said that?? That aside, trust me, with more electric vehicles on the road, you need all the help you can get as to what is coming up behind you.


Electric vehicles are still hella noisy with their added weight pushing their big tyres down. I usually hear the general road noise of cars before a modern little petrol engine anyway, even with my damaged hearing, but I don't ride with headphones in, or with noise-making straps in front of my ears, unlike many "serious" riders.


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## Tenkaykev (17 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Quite impressive.
> I remember a mate of mine setting off with no lens in his Oakley frames one day.



I got halfway up the drive heading off for a run before I realised I was still wearing Crocs.


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## Ridgeway (17 Oct 2022)

Tenkaykev said:


> I got halfway up the drive heading off for a run before I realised I was still wearing Crocs.



Now that is the best I’ve heard, good cushioning for the knees though 😁


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## Alex321 (17 Oct 2022)

mikeIow said:


> Felt slightly odd the way the discussion turned to illegal flashing, & of course any person is entitled to think the device isn't for them. Suffice to say that Garmin are not total charlatans & I doubt they would sell you an illegal light



I think lights which can automatically change the rate of flash are probably legal in some jurisdictions. Just not in the UK.

And if you can turn off that function, the light will be perfectly legal.

My rear light (cateye) has several different flashing options, some of which would be illegal to use on the road. But that doesn't make the light itself illegal so long as I don't use those options.


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## Alex321 (17 Oct 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> sorry -
> You have kinda confirmed to me that it's not a lot of use/potentially dangerous if folk start to rely on it even for an initial check (one step away from disaster)



I don't think you understood what he was saying.

So long as it is signalling something coming, you don't even bother looking because you know it won't be safe to turn. Once the signal shows celar THEN you check over your shoulder to see if it really is clear before making the move.


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## andrew_s (17 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I think lights which can automatically change the rate of flash are probably legal in some jurisdictions. Just not in the UK.
> 
> My rear light (cateye) has several different flashing options, some of which would be illegal to use on the road. But that doesn't make the light itself illegal so long as I don't use those options.


There are two types of legality.
The only lights that it's actually illegal to use at all are blue lights, red front lights, and white rear lights.

There are lots of other lights that aren't sufficient to be legal on their own, but are perfectly OK to use in addition to another light that is legal on its own. 
I use the Varia, with its variable flashing rate, in addition to a dynamo light, and am perfectly legal.


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

andrew_s said:


> There are two types of legality.
> The only lights that it's actually illegal to use at all are blue lights, red front lights, and white rear lights.
> 
> There are lots of other lights that aren't sufficient to be legal on their own, but are perfectly OK to use in addition to another light that is legal on its own.
> I use the Varia, with its variable flashing rate, in addition to a dynamo light, and am perfectly legal.



And just why do you believe the law, as quoted previously here, doesn't apply?

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) are quite clear:
Schedule 10, part I, para 12(b)
"(b) In the case of a rear position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light which is fitted to—
(i)a pedal cycle; or
(ii)a trailer drawn by, or a sidecar attached to, a pedal cycle
the light shown by the lamp when flashing shall be displayed not less than 60 nor more than 240* equal times per minute and the intervals between each display of light shall be constant*".

Then in part II of that schedule (relating to optional lamps):
"Any number may be fitted and the only requirements prescribed by these Regulations in respect of any which are fitted are those specified in paragraphs 7 and 12(b) of Part I."

So optional (additional) lights still have to comply with para 12(b).

The only legal way to have it flashing at a variable rate is if it is attached to *you*, rather than to the bike.


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## cougie uk (18 Oct 2022)

*Ive several lights that don't have a regular flash then. A smart light that increases flashing if it detects traffic and another one that's meant to beat like a heartbeat. 

nobody gets stopped for having lights like this. 

I'd much rather be visible than have a crappy weak light that complies with the regulations that nobody looks at. 

dunno why I'm in bold. *


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Who here had flashing lights on their bike before 2005?
I know I did, and no-one in a position to stop me from using them did so. The flashing rate is there in the 1989 RVLR, and the wording is exactly the same as it is in the current regulations. How can that be correct, if flashing lights, fitted to pedal cycles, only became legal in 2005.

The same regulations cover motor vehicles and the indicators fitted. There's indicators in use on some vehicles that don't flash, the light pattern moving from the inside to the outside. Not actually flashing.
Where are the rotating amber beacons that utility vehicles are supposed to have fitted? It's now strobe lights, which under currently regulations are illegal. As for blue flashing lights being the preserve of emergency vehicles, you're just as likely to see them fitted to vehicles doing roadworks. One national company has fitted its whole fleet of site vehicles with flashing blue lights. No-one has had a word in the drivers ear and told him/her it's illegal. No-one in a position to do anything about it at least.

If it's the flash rate that annoys you, complain/moan to those who can do something about it. Don't use it as a diversionary tactic to say that the whole idea is wrong. Don't like the idea of extra help, don't use it.


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## cougie uk (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Who here had flashing lights on their bike before 2005?
> I know I did, and no-one in a position to stop me from using them did so. The flashing rate is there in the 1989 RVLR, and the wording is exactly the same as it is in the current regulations. How can that be correct, if flashing lights, fitted to pedal cycles, only became legal in 2005.
> 
> The same regulations cover motor vehicles and the indicators fitted. There's indicators in use on some vehicles that don't flash, the light pattern moving from the inside to the outside. Not actually flashing.
> ...



Isn't it the flashing rate though? Irregular intervals. Not that it matters though cos nobody's getting done for it.


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## Adam4868 (18 Oct 2022)

I allways have a flashing rear light on my bike.Maybe its the law but I can't help thinking it's not the crime of the century.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Isn't it the flashing rate though? Irregular intervals. Not that it matters though cos nobody's getting done for it.


Which part?


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## AlanW (18 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> I allways have a flashing rear light on my bike.Maybe its the law but I can't help thinking it's not the crime of the century.



100% agree, I'm sure Police resources are stretched enough without plod stood by the side of the road counting how many times a rear cycle light flashes. 

Plus, and of course I might be wrong, but Im also fairly sure that a cyclist with no lights would attract more attention from plod than someone with a light that was flashing to many times?


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## Adam4868 (18 Oct 2022)

AlanW said:


> 100% agree, I'm sure Police resources are stretched enough without plod stood by the side of the road counting how many times a rear cycle light flashes.
> 
> Plus, and of course I might be wrong, but Im also fairly sure that a cyclist with no lights would attract more attention from plod than someone with a light that was flashing to many times?


The police are that stretched I doubt they give either the slightest regard.Plenty of kids doing 40 plus mph with no lights round here.A flashing light would be a blessing !


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Who here had flashing lights on their bike before 2005?
> I know I did, and no-one in a position to stop me from using them did so. The flashing rate is there in the 1989 RVLR, and the wording is exactly the same as it is in the current regulations. How can that be correct, if flashing lights, fitted to pedal cycles, only became legal in 2005.



Because that part of the 1989 regulations was amended by the 2005 regulations.

This is the original regulations
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/10/made

And his is the amended regulations
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/10



classic33 said:


> The same regulations cover motor vehicles and the indicators fitted. There's indicators in use on some vehicles that don't flash, the light pattern moving from the inside to the outside. Not actually flashing.



Not sure just how "flashing" is defined for that purpose. Without further checking which I don't have time for right now, I'm not quite sure whether those are legal or not.



classic33 said:


> Where are the rotating amber beacons that utility vehicles are supposed to have fitted? It's now strobe lights, which under currently regulations are illegal. As for blue flashing lights being the preserve of emergency vehicles, you're just as likely to see them fitted to vehicles doing roadworks. One national company has fitted its whole fleet of site vehicles with flashing blue lights. No-one has had a word in the drivers ear and told him/her it's illegal. No-one in a position to do anything about it at least.


That last one I find very surprising indeed.



classic33 said:


> If it's the flash rate that annoys you, complain/moan to those who can do something about it. Don't use it as a diversionary tactic to say that the whole idea is wrong. Don't like the idea of extra help, don't use it.



It doesn't annoy me at all, I was just pointing out that technically it is illegal. I would hope there is an option to turn off that feature.


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## Mike_P (18 Oct 2022)

It does have a fixed light option; not quite sure what happens when something approaches.


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## Joffey (18 Oct 2022)

One of the best things I've bought for my bike is the Varia. The radar is excellent and the light is nice and bright. I don't ride without it.


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## Tenkaykev (18 Oct 2022)

I had an email from Garmin with various " Birthday Sale " offers. The varia Radar light is reduced to £129.99


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2022)

I missed this thread bubbling away here. I've ridden with one of these for a few years now. A lot of miles. My view is precisely that of @Sea of vapours 


Sea of vapours said:


> It's about increasing situational awareness. It's not a replacement for listening, looking around or using a mirror; it's an *addition* to those things. Of those things, it's the one I'd give up first, but that doesn't mean it's not adding information quite a lot of the time, especially in areas with relatively little traffic where you might not naturally be checking behind you every few seconds.



I'd tend more towards saying it's _useful_ rather than _safer_. It may be safer, I can't say. It's definitely useful. I use a mirror too. 

(I feel a bit nostalgic for the days when mentioning mirrors on bikes would bring @Drago out swinging)

Interesting snippet about the variable flash rate regulation from @mjr Interesting to know but I don't intend to worry about it.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Question for those that use this or similar rear lights.

Is it your primary rear light or your secondary rear light?


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## cougie uk (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Question for those that use this or similar rear lights.
> 
> Is it your primary rear light or your secondary rear light?



I only have the radar unit and use a light I already had.


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## mjr (18 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> The police are that stretched I doubt they give either the slightest regard.Plenty of kids doing 40 plus mph with no lights round here.A flashing light would be a blessing !



Yes, there aren't enough traffic police to enforce the regs.

But I still don't use variable flash rate lights because they're annoying and I strongly suspect ineffective. 

You are handing another thing to bike bashers that they can moan about whenever spending a pittance on cycling is proposed. 

And I bet variable flash would get used as an argument to reduce a compensation payout, with more legitimacy than some arguments used.


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## Sea of vapours (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Is it your primary rear light or your secondary rear light?


I don't often cycle in actual darkness and the Varia in flashing mode lasts 16 hours, so most of the time it's my primary / only light and I'm in daylight.

If I anticipate that I may actually be riding in the dark then it would still be primary, but I'd switch it to non-flashing at dusk (6 hours battery life from fully charged) and would have an additional light with another six/eighteen hours of life which I'd also have on if the Varia was due to die.
_EDIT: If a Varia does die / fall off then a 'Radar disconnected' notice appears on the head unit - quite a useful feature in the dark, though I still have a second light active. _


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## cougie uk (18 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> And I bet variable flash would get used as an argument to reduce a compensation payout, with more legitimacy than some arguments used.



If this had happened you'd have thought it would have been reported. I've never heard of it - have you or are you just making things up ?


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## Mike_P (18 Oct 2022)

I have always taken the reference to variable to being a light that is totally random in its flashing; the Varia is not, it increases its rate as a vehicle approaches. Garmin are wise to individual countries rules and German ones only have a steady light as flashing lights are not permitted.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Question for those that use this or similar rear lights.
> 
> Is it your primary rear light or your secondary rear light?



Hard to say. It's one of two, (or sometimes more) but I don't rank them. It sits beside a Cateye Omni. Sometimes I add other lights too. In the dark/low light the Cateye goes on to permanent (non flash).


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> I have always taken the reference to variable to being a light that is totally random in its flashing; the Varia is not, it increases its rate as a vehicle approaches. Garmin are wise to individual countries rules and German ones only have a steady light as flashing lights are not permitted.



The actual law makes it quite clear. That is not allowed.

But I very much doubt whether it will ever be enforced, even if the police are actually aware of that part of the law, they will have much better thing to do than stop a cyclist for that.

And if they want to stop cyclists for breaching the lighting regulations, almost all of us who ride with clipless pedals after dark are doing so without the legally required pedal reflectors. The majority of clipless pedals don't even have anywhere reflectors could be attached.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> *The actual law makes it quite clear. That is not allowed.*
> 
> But I very much doubt whether it will ever be enforced, even if the police are actually aware of that part of the law, they will have much better thing to do than stop a cyclist for that.
> 
> And if they want to stop cyclists for breaching the lighting regulations, almost all of us who ride with clipless pedals after dark are doing so without the legally required pedal reflectors. The majority of clipless pedals don't even have anywhere reflectors could be attached.


It doesn't actually. Current regulations apply to primary lights, not secondary lights.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Not the best of pictures, taken from a moving vehicle. But blue flashing lights on what is clearly not an emergency vehicle. And fully road legal.


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## Adam4868 (18 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> Yes, there aren't enough traffic police to enforce the regs.
> 
> But I still don't use variable flash rate lights because they're annoying and I strongly suspect ineffective.
> 
> ...


I take your point....but flashing lights to bash cyclists ? There's plenty of other ammunition and can't say I've ever heard or read it said.
Or for that matter used to reduce a compensation payout.Maybe there is somewhere but it's not top of the agenda for the usual Mail clickbait against cyclists.


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## Adam4868 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Not the best of pictures, taken from a moving vehicle. But blue flashing lights on what is clearly not an emergency vehicle. And fully road legal.
> View attachment 665081


Notice loads of vehicles with flashing lights,I actually noticed a mobility scooter hire van today with lights flashing.I also know a tyre fitter who has flashing lights on his vehicle.


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## Slick (18 Oct 2022)

Well, first commute ride this morning since I bought this new light. Ot wasn't really planned, but I woke around 4.30 am and pretty much knew I wasn't getting back to sleep. I really should have been better organised, but I gathered everything together and almost nothing was charged, so fired up the extension thingy and it sooned look like something from the space station, there was that many flashing lights. 

Anyway, I paired the light with the head unit no problem, but my only option after that was to continue without saving. Obviously I have done something stupid, so I'll need to wait another day or so before getting a chance to try it out as it looks like the wind and rain is moving back in here.


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## Hacienda71 (18 Oct 2022)

All the talk of legality of flashing lights etc. I suspect very few bikes are legal on the road at night. There are virtually no clipless pedal systems with four orange reflectors on and very few people have red rear reflectors on their bikes. There will be a self righteous minority who say I do, but the vast majority don't and the police don't care as long as you are lit and visible. They can't say they don't enforce the law but they simply don't. I also haven't heard of lots of cases where defence lawyers are utilising this non compliance as a viable defence for hitting a lit cyclist.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> It doesn't actually. Current regulations apply to primary lights, not secondary lights.



Oh you know when I said my Varia was just one of two lights, and neither was primary? Well what I really meant was that the Cateye is primary and the Varia secondary. Most definitely, oh yes.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2022)

Hacienda71 said:


> All the talk of legality of flashing lights etc. I suspect very few bikes are legal on the road at night. There are virtually no clipless pedal systems with four orange reflectors on and very few people have red rear reflectors on their bikes. There will be a self righteous minority who say I do,


Harrumph! _I do_ . One of my bikes has SPDs with reflectors and a reflector on the mudguard.

Unfortunately that bike is my turbo bike and never goes outside, and the mudguards are in a junk pile in the garage.


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## Hacienda71 (18 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Harrumph! _I do_ . One of my bikes has SPDs with reflectors and a reflector on the mudguard.
> 
> Unfortunately that bike is my turbo bike and never goes outside, and the mudguards are in a junk pile in the garage.



Yeh but is your rear light compliant with a regular flash. 🤣


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> It doesn't actually. Current regulations apply to primary lights, not secondary lights.



They apply to both.



> Requirements relating to optional rear position lamps​Commencement Information
> I14Sch. 10 Pt. II in force at 1.11.1989, see *reg. 1(1)*
> Any number may be fitted and [F9the only requirements prescribed by these Regulations in respect of any which are fitted are those specified in paragraphs 7 and 12(b) of Part I].



Paragraph 12(b) is the one which states that flashing lights must be a steady flash, as quoted already a couple of times in this thread.


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Not the best of pictures, taken from a moving vehicle. But blue flashing lights on what is clearly not an emergency vehicle. And fully road legal.
> View attachment 665081



No, it is not "fully road legal". Thos lights can obviously be seen from the rear.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/part/II

"(2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp [F3or retro reflective material] which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except–"

And the list of exceptions does not include blue lights other than on a police vehicle.


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> Notice loads of vehicles with flashing lights,I actually noticed a mobility scooter hire van today with lights flashing.I also know a tyre fitter who has flashing lights on his vehicle.



Amber flashing lights are allowed on quite a large range of vehicles.
"amber light from a warning beacon fitted to–
(i)a road clearance vehicle;
(ii)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse;
(iii)a breakdown vehicle;
(iv)a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle;
(v)a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m;
(vi)a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use;
(vii)a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use;
(viii)a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act;
[F5(ix)a vehicle used for escort purposes;]
(x)a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels;
(xi)a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying;
(xii)a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty;"

The mobile tyre fitter will class as a breakdown vehicle for that purpose. Not sure about the mobility scooter vehicle.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> No, it is not "fully road legal". Thos lights can obviously be seen from the rear.
> 
> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/part/II
> 
> ...


Must tell the fire and ambulance service then.


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Amber flashing lights are allowed on quite a large range of vehicles.
> "amber light from a warning beacon fitted to–
> (i)a road clearance vehicle;
> (ii)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse;
> ...


Rotating amber beacon, not an amber flashing/strobing light.


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Must tell the fire and ambulance service then.



Yes, I should have said emergency vehicles, rather than police. Although the dome lights are red & white for Fire service, and Green & white for ambulances. But all of them have other lights which are blue. They are still only allowed to be used when the vehicle is being used for emergency purposes.


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## Alex321 (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Rotating amber beacon, not an amber flashing/strobing light.



Not necessarily. It is defined as "flashing or rotating"


“Warning beacon”A lamp that is capable of emitting a flashing or rotating beam of light throughout 360° in the horizontal plan"


----------



## HLaB (18 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Question for those that use this or similar rear lights.
> 
> Is it your primary rear light or your secondary rear light?



In the summer its my primary and only light but as it gets darker I back it up with another rear light. I don't think I would class either as the primary or secondary light though.


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## Milzy (18 Oct 2022)

I love mine sooooooooooo much.


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## Adam4868 (18 Oct 2022)

Ok after listening to all the evidence....pros and cons I'd have one.
If they weren't so damn expensive !


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## Sea of vapours (18 Oct 2022)

RTL515 currently at £130. Not that that isn't pretty expensive still, but it's a good bit less than the normal £170.


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## cougie uk (19 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> Ok after listening to all the evidence....pros and cons I'd have one.
> If they weren't so damn expensive !



The radar sensor itself is a bit cheaper. Then just use your own light


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## Adam4868 (19 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> The radar sensor itself is a bit cheaper. Then just use your own light


Thanks....I didn't know they were seperate thingys ?


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## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> Thanks....I didn't know they were seperate thingys ?



They don't have to be. There are 3 models. Radar only, radar with light, radar with light and camera.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> Thanks....I didn't know they were seperate thingys ?



The RVR315 is just a radar unit with no light. I don't have one but I think it's basically just the Varia without a light. 

The main advantage of this is that no one can jump out of a hedge and stop you and say "Excuse me, but I couldn't help noticing that the frequency of flashing of your rear light appears to be variable, not constant, which is in contravention of RVRL part II 13.(2). What do you have to say to that then, eh? eh?" I can tell you it's always happening to me and it gets a bit annoying.

Oh, and it's cheaper.


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## cougie uk (19 Oct 2022)

I think the one with the light has a slightly bigger battery for longer rides if that's important.


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## Adam4868 (19 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> They don't have to be. There are 3 models. Radar only, radar with light, radar with light and camera.


I had a restless night thinking of parting with 129.99....now you tell me this !


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## Dogtrousers (19 Oct 2022)

Actually, one feature that I'd like - but which the Varia light doesn't have, would be to run it in radar-only mode during the day to save battery. I don't know why they didn't include it.


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## Sea of vapours (19 Oct 2022)

Hmmm..... at the moment, the sole advantage of the RVR315 (radar only unit) would seem to be that identified by @Dogtrousers (freedom from the fear of the flasher patrols accosting you for inconsistent or overly rapid flashing) since, on Wiggle at least, they are both £130. Not only that, but the radar only unit has a 7 hour battery life, which compares unfavourably with the 16 hours of the radar+light unit (RTL515). Sooooo..... you can pay the same and not get a light and have half the battery life ..... The radar only unit looks unappealing then ! Presumably it weighs a little less. (EDIT: 51g versus 71g)

I concur on the idea of having a radar only mode, though 16 hours with a flashing, very bright light, is not at all bad. It's a strange omission, nonetheless.


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## Adam4868 (19 Oct 2022)

I don't do 16 hour rides and I ride with no fear of flashing....so I'd go with the all in one unit.Especially as there's no saving money wise.


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## classic33 (19 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> I don't do 16 hour rides and* I ride with no fear of flashing*....so I'd go with the all in one unit.Especially as there's no saving money wise.


Could they do you for that?


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## Dogtrousers (19 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Could they do you for that?



Only if he does it variably.


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## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

Adam4868 said:


> I had a restless night thinking of parting with 129.99....now you tell me this !



My personal view is that the radar with light is the best option. The camera version seems to get universally panned.


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## Alex321 (19 Oct 2022)

Sea of vapours said:


> Hmmm..... at the moment, the sole advantage of the RVR315 (radar only unit) would seem to be that identified by @Dogtrousers (freedom from the fear of the flasher patrols accosting you for inconsistent or overly rapid flashing) since, on Wiggle at least, they are both £130. Not only that, but the radar only unit has a 7 hour battery life, which compares unfavourably with the 16 hours of the radar+light unit (RTL515). Sooooo..... you can pay the same and not get a light and have half the battery life ..... The radar only unit looks unappealing then ! Presumably it weighs a little less. (EDIT: 51g versus 71g)
> 
> I concur on the idea of having a radar only mode, though 16 hours with a flashing, very bright light, is not at all bad. It's a strange omission, nonetheless.


The radar only unit is £10-£15 cheaper in most places. Wiggle is unusual in having both at the same price. But most places have the radar & light more expensive than Wiggle do.

But TBH, that still isn't enough of a difference in my mind. I am very tempted.


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## Mike_P (19 Oct 2022)

Note their are two versions of it with a light the 510 and the 515. The former claims greater visibility.


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## Alex321 (19 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Note their are two versions of it with a light the 510 and the 515. The former claims greater visibility.



I thought the 510 was the previous version?


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## Mike_P (19 Oct 2022)

Review including comparing the base unit with the light version https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/garmin-varia-review


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## Mike_P (19 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I thought the 510 was the previous version?



Maybe. Its more expensive and listed by Garmin
https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/search/?query=Varia


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## Mike_P (19 Oct 2022)

Occurred to me the Varia helps to comply with cycling down the middle of the lane but giving way to traffic by moving to the side of the lane, not that many local roads are fit for cycling down the middle of the lane giving the amount of grot there.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Occurred to me the Varia helps to comply with cycling down the middle of the lane but giving way to traffic by moving to the side of the lane, not that many local roads are fit for cycling down the middle of the lane giving the amount of grot there.



I'd say ... kind of ... yeah. I mean that's what I normally do anyway - sort of - whether or not I have the Varia on. I ride quite centrally but not to the extent that I block what would otherwise be a safe overtake, and if I'm aware that I have one or more cars stuck behind me on a twisty road then I pull over if there's somewhere convenient. The Varia adds a bit to my overall awareness (from mirror, listening and looking back) and helps with that but it's by no means essential.


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## Mike_P (20 Oct 2022)

Quick read of the manual 
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/web...86BF157E9/EN-US/Varia_RTL515_516_OM_EN-US.pdf

The 515s lit modes are:-
- solid high intensity light will flash when a vehicle approaches, 
- solid moderate intensity light will softly flash when a vehicle approaches ("peleton mode")
- high intensity slow flash will flash quickly when a vehicle approaches ("night mode")
- maximum intensity occasional flash will flash quickly when a vehicle approaches ("day mode")

So anyone concerned with the variable flashing issus should use either of the first two.

There is a further mode of standby with neither the light or radar working , just battery drain compared to being off.
Bit odd that there is no radar working no light option.

The 516 for the German market has the solid mode only with no flashing.


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## si_c (21 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> The 515s lit modes are:-
> - solid high intensity light will flash when a vehicle approaches,
> - solid moderate intensity light will softly flash when a vehicle approaches ("peleton mode")
> - high intensity slow flash will flash quickly when a vehicle approaches ("night mode")
> ...


I mostly use Day Flash mode, it's really noticeable during the day, and during the night makes you very very visible.



Mike_P said:


> There is a further mode of standby with neither the light or radar working , just battery drain compared to being off.


Sort of, the drain is still very low in standby so not really worth worrying about, but the advantage is that when you turn your head unit on, the light will come on immediately as well and if you have an ANT+ front light the same. It's actually a really nice feature and one you appreciate quite a bit after a while, if your head unit is on, your lights are on.



Mike_P said:


> Bit odd that there is no radar working no light option.


If you have a Garmin Edge or other device which supports light networks, you can set the Varia to individual mode, then turn the light part off. This will leave the radar running. It's how I do it on my Edge 820 or 1030+ but honestly I think it's easier to leave in day flash mode, the light gets 16 hours of battery life in that mode there or thereabouts so you wouldn't save much battery so you may as well leave it on.


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## mjr (21 Oct 2022)

si_c said:


> I mostly use Day Flash mode, it's really noticeable during the day, and during the night makes you very very visible.



Very visible to other road users you just dazzled with a "maximum intensity occasional flash"? 🤔


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## cougie uk (21 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> Very visible to other road users you just dazzled with a "maximum intensity occasional flash"? 🤔



It's a bike light. It's not a lighthouses.


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## Mike_P (21 Oct 2022)

In plain terms with mine sat along side me
1. Solid red light and which apparently changes to a flashing light when a vehicle appproaches
2. A very very slightly dimmer solid red light and which apparently changes to a flashing light when a vehicle appproaches
3. A solid red light which flashes with greater intensity and which apparently changes to a quicker flash when a vehicle approaches (does the solid red remain?)
4. A flashing light which changes to a quicker flash when a vehicle approaches (seen it do whilst I was sat on bench)
5. Standby of which the benefits have been set out by @si_c but my 530 simply gets into a twist setting up a light network it has found then saying it cannot find the light network Have told it not to look for a light network. Can confirm mistakenly leaving the Varia in standby for a week will pretty will run the battery down


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## mjr (21 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> It's a bike light. It's not a lighthouses.



I know. Councillors don't complain to me about being dazzled by lighthouses. 

Tell you what, you go out in the dark, set off one of those Max intensity flashes in your face, then tell me how soon afterwards you can see the bike again. If that Garmin is even pound shop light brightness, it'll be 5 seconds, in which time a 50mph car covers about 110m.


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## classic33 (21 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> I know. Councillors don't complain to me about being dazzled by lighthouses.
> 
> Tell you what, you go out in the dark, set off one of those Max intensity flashes in your face, then tell me how soon afterwards you can see the bike again. If that Garmin is even pound shop light brightness, it'll be 5 seconds, in which time a 50mph car covers about 110m.


But, to use that well used & abused saying, they'll have been travelling too fast to to be able to stop within what they can see to be clear. There's very few cyclists doing 50mph on roads under their own power.


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## mjr (21 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> But, to use that well used & abused saying, they'll have been travelling too fast to to be able to stop within what they can see to be clear. There's very few cyclists doing 50mph on roads under their own power.



They could probably see 110m before someone illegally dazzled them.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Oct 2022)

Um ... there's a big difference between setting off a flash in your face and seeing one from 100m. Inverse square law and all that.


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## classic33 (21 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> They could probably see 110m before someone illegally dazzled them.


There's a light that can dazzle a driver at that distance, small enough to fit on a bicycle run on internal batteries! And can be bought for £150.

Where can I get one?


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## Mike_P (21 Oct 2022)

I've had my Varia on Day mode in the evening on my ebike which has built in lights that are a solid light only and not had any motorists clearly annoyed. Not sure what the illuminance difference is between the different modes but any difference is only slight compared to other lights which can be dazzling, bright or dullish on different modes.


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## mjr (21 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Um ... there's a big difference between setting off a flash in your face and seeing one from 100m. Inverse square law and all that.



I was suggesting the motorist would travel about 100m while dazzled, not that it triggers at 100m range. My concern is that the distance between motorist and cyclist could be much less than 100m when the flash fires. If you've got a Varia, what approaching distance (s) do the Max intensity flashes fire at, in that mode?


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## cougie uk (21 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> I know. Councillors don't complain to me about being dazzled by lighthouses.
> 
> Tell you what, you go out in the dark, set off one of those Max intensity flashes in your face, then tell me how soon afterwards you can see the bike again. If that Garmin is even pound shop light brightness, it'll be 5 seconds, in which time a 50mph car covers about 110m.



Dude. Have you heard of car headlights. You will have a FIT I tell you.


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## mjr (21 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Dude. Have you heard of car headlights. You will have a FIT I tell you.



They have to be dipped when there's oncoming traffic. The Varia don't dip, does it?


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## classic33 (21 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> They have to be dipped when there's oncoming traffic. The Varia don't dip, does it?


The Varia would be on the rear, facing the rear, red and not white.

Currently no requirement to dip your vehicles rear lights, that I'm aware of.


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## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> The Varia would be on the rear, facing the rear, red and not white.
> 
> Currently no requirement to dip your vehicles rear lights, that I'm aware of.



Very true, but there IS a requirement (far too often ignored) to not use rear fog lights except in conditions of severely reduced visibility. Thay can be seriously dazzling when used incorrectly.

But having said that, the Varia isn't nearly as bright as even regular car tail lights. Its' maximum brightness (Day flash mode) is still only 65 lumens. I believe most regular car tail lights are between 100 and 600 lumens, with some going as high as 1000. Brake lights and fog lights start at around 1200 and go up to as much as 2000.


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## HLaB (21 Oct 2022)

Whilst if anything ever happened to my Varia I replace it straight away there's starting to be some competition which may drive prices down. Bryton, Magene and Magicshine have entered the market

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/07/bryton-guardia-r300-magene-l508-cycling-radar-units.html

https://bikebiz.com/magene-releases-l508-radar-tail-light-for-more-riding-safety/

https://www.cyclistshub.com/magene-l508-review/


View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0B9RWTXF2?ref_=as_li_ss_tl&language=en_US&linkCode=gs2&linkId=65a584dc45d0496b1742a47b2baabf4a&tag=cyclistshub-21


https://thesweetcyclists.com/magicshine-seemee-508-bike-radar-smart-taillight-review/


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## Mike_P (22 Oct 2022)

Good review of the camera equipped version
https://the5krunner.com/2022/05/20/garmin-varia-rct715-review/


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## cougie uk (22 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> They have to be dipped when there's oncoming traffic. The Varia don't dip, does it?



If you've never been dazzled by a car driving with full beams on I would be amazed. Even worse on a bike - cars somehow don't see you.


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## HLaB (22 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Actually, one feature that I'd like - but which the Varia light doesn't have, would be to run it in radar-only mode during the day to save battery. I don't know why they didn't include it.



Ive never used it but there seems to be the option on the Head Unit control page.


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## Mike_P (22 Oct 2022)

My 530 came up with a message of low radar battery today. Flip, knew there was something I had to do. I switched the Varia off for a while until I came to join a busy A road. The 530 never refound the Varia.


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## HLaB (22 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> My 530 came up with a message of low radar battery today. Flip, knew there was something I had to do. I switched the Varia off for a while until I came to join a busy A road. The 530 never refound the Varia.



There's certain Garmin rules about reconnecting which are pain sometimes. If you are outside the auto-reconnection window you have to go into the edge and tell it to reconnect. I've had to do that with a power meter battery that died. I cycled to the shop to get a new one. At first it wouldn't reconnect until I realised you had to do it manually.


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## mjr (23 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> If you've never been dazzled by a car driving with full beams on I would be amazed. Even worse on a bike - cars somehow don't see you.


They generally see me and dip, else they do after I wave my hand across my light, making it appear to flash to them. Maybe you need better lights? 

It is of course possible to use car headlights badly, but it is possible to use them legally. Some bike lights have no practical way to use them legally, though, without dazzling. But we're probably drifting off the Varia, which it seems has some legal modes.


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## Mike_P (23 Oct 2022)

Occurred to me that as the Varia changes modes when it detects an approaching vehicle, which IME when using it on my ebike which also has a mirror is still some distance away, the change of mode would not be immediately in the face of the approaching motorist which would be the issue with a rear light that constantly changed its flashing frequency.


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## Mike_P (10 Nov 2022)

Penny under £120 at Argos https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8876597


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## geocycle (7 Jan 2023)

Dogtrousers said:


> Actually, one feature that I'd like - but which the Varia light doesn't have, would be to run it in radar-only mode during the day to save battery. I don't know why they didn't include it.


I’ve just got the RTL515, the light version and absolutely love it. Really easy to use and pair with phone and Wahoo elemnt bolt. Seemed to work flawlessly in detecting vehicles, even clusters of them. It is good to know that behind the wagon are two or three other cars. I had mine on day flash mode with more than half battery left after 50 odd miles. Perfect for this time of year but not keen on flashing folk all summer, so I agree a way of turning light off but leaving radar running would be ideal. It seems the more recent Garmins can do this but not the Wahoo or app. Interested in anyone knows a work around. Mounts fine on saddlebag.


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## Milzy (7 Jan 2023)

I love mine more and more. It makes me feel safer.


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## kenmiles (Sunday at 13:07)

On the Garmin 1040 and 1030+ computer you can turn the light off in the Light Network widget and the radar still functions.
Don't know if you can on a Wahoo though.


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## Mike_P (Sunday at 13:17)

Not aware of a turning off function on the Wahoo. My Garmin 530 should have the ability but it constantly comes up with Light Network not found immediately after finding the Light Network. Consequently I have my Varia on flash all year.


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## geocycle (Sunday at 13:59)

kenmiles said:


> On the Garmin 1040 and 1030+ computer you can turn the light off in the Light Network widget and the radar still functions.
> Don't know if you can on a Wahoo though.


Thanks. I have read around and it doesn’t seem to be possible with Wahoo and even the lower end Garmins. Not sure whether Wahoo are able to do it or if it’s a licensing thing. It’s the same with the phone app. I did look at the RT315 radar only version but the battery is only 7h which is counterintuitive given you get 16 h and a light with the RTL515.


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## Dogtrousers (Sunday at 14:39)

To be honest the battery capacity of the newer one (RTL515) than my older one (RTL510) that I no longer feel the need to switch the light off. The older one didn't have sufficient battery to last a full all day ride. The newer one does.


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## cougie uk (Sunday at 15:46)

Absolutely awful conditions today on the bike. Lots of huge puddles to avoid and having the radar on really helps you to choose your path through the flooding without continually having to check behind.


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## geocycle (Sunday at 16:12)

cougie uk said:


> Absolutely awful conditions today on the bike. Lots of huge puddles to avoid and having the radar on really helps you to choose your path through the flooding without continually having to check behind.


Yes, that’s the sort of situation where it is useful. It really helps knowing what’s behind when you are trying to pick a way through puddles Or potholes. It will never replace looking over a shoulder and listening but it is a valuable addition.


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## mikeIow (Monday at 21:43)

Dogtrousers said:


> To be honest the battery capacity of the newer one (RTL515) than my older one (RTL510) that I no longer feel the need to switch the light off. The older one didn't have sufficient battery to last a full all day ride. The newer one does.



I’d agree with that: I find it can easily do 6+ hours, & rarely will I pedal for longer!
Plus, the low-energy flash changes when a vehicle approaches, so I figure it will help make me more visible (& hence safer…it was bought as a safety device under the safety budget 🤪🤣) 👍


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