# What to do in a thunderstorm?!!



## XmisterIS (28 Jun 2011)

I have ridden in thunder and lightning before, but today, the clouds were low enough that the lightning was striking the ground!


I rode home on my shopping bike at a speed that Lance Armstrong would be proud of ...


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## nich (28 Jun 2011)

XmisterIS said:


> I have ridden in thunder and lightning before, but today, the clouds were low enough that the lightning was striking the ground!
> 
> 
> I rode home on my shopping bike at a speed that Lance Armstrong would be proud of ...




i'll let you know later when I find out


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## coffeejo (28 Jun 2011)

Sounds like a hair-raising experience.


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## Keith Oates (28 Jun 2011)

I'm not sure what you should do but sheltering under a tree is an option to avoid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BrumJim (28 Jun 2011)

Cycling fast through a thunderstorm results in you having more chance of being struck by lightning:

If you move a metal object through a magnetic field, then if creates a potential, and therefore current flows. It is the principal that all generators work on.

An electrical charge causes a magnetic field around it - see electromagnets.

So, with the air ready for an electrical storm and all charged up, there is a magnetic field all around us. Passing a large metal item (say a bike frame) through this will cause it to get charged. The quicker the movement, the larger the charge. One end of the bike will be more negative, and one more positive. This will increase the potential from the charged clouds at one end, and a bigger potential across the same distance will mean that a discharge is more likely. Hence if lightning strikes, it will hit the bike, rather than the lesser charged surroundings.

Only two ways round this. One is to cycle slowly. The other is to get a carbon bike that will not generate a potential when moving through a magnetic field. Cycling slowly is clearly not an option, as you are getting cold and wet.

And that is the excuse that I am giving my wife this evening. Hopefully she won't see the holes in the physics.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Jun 2011)

ride like you stole it, and pray to whatever gods you believe in that what they told you about the insulating properties of rubber (tyres) is true.

once got caught up on Plynlimon in a storm. No trees up there so I was the tallest thing for miles around. terrified. After a couple of CGI special effect like strikes I threw the bike on the floor, ran a good distance away from it and hit the deck and lay face down with hands over my head/ears whilst the hail and then the rain lashed down on me.


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## chillyuk (28 Jun 2011)

BrumJims explanation is most impressive.
Isn't education wonderful!


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## WychwoodTrev (28 Jun 2011)

XmisterIS said:


> I have ridden in thunder and lightning before, but today, the clouds were low enough that the lightning was striking the ground!
> 
> 
> I rode home on my shopping bike at a speed that Lance Armstrong would be proud of ...


Where are I am roofing in Richmond at the mo well had to stop work due to lightening


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Hi,

I have never actually had to use these techniques, but I've done quite a lot of research on this as I'm often in areas where lightning could be a danger. This is what I've heard:


Lightning always looks for the fastest way to reach the ground, so make sure you're not the tallest thing around, or you're not near the tallest thing around. For example, if you're in a very flat, featureless area or on the top of a hill you may yourself become a target; if you are looking for shelter underneath an isolated tree, you are in danger (lightening striking the tree). However, you can seek shelter in a forest, just try to keep a safe distance from the taller trees.
You mustn't be lying down if you notice that lightening is coming towards your position. Instead, squat down onto the tips of your feet with your heels touching each other (not the most comfortable of positions!) - and don't touch the floor with your hands. Lightening can actually travel along the floor. This position will ensure that any electricitly will not pass through your heart (which would be the case if you were lying down). Some people suggest standing on roll mats etc to provide extra insulation, but I don't know if, considering the amount of electricity we're talking about here, this would really be effective.
Caves do not provide safe shelter for the same reason: the electricity can still pass through the ground.
If you're in a group, separate out. That way, if one person is hit, the others should be safe-(ish)
Keep away from lakes and the sea.
If you can get into a car, get into it! If lightening strikes, so long as the car isn't convertible and all the windows are up, it'll become a Faraday cage and protect you.
Some people say that you should keep away from metal - which means your bike!
Don't forget to protect your ears! Bust eardrums are a real possibility. I don't know how much protection they provide, but I always take good quality ear plugs when I'm out touring.
Flash flooding is probably a bigger risk than the lightning, so be alert as to where they may happen
Hope that helps!


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## Glow worm (28 Jun 2011)

Big storm here earlier - it knocked out the power for an hour or so. I went for a quick walk down my street and there was a fella on top of a neighbour's roof, putting up a new TV arial !


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2011)

It's actually very nice up in Manchester - sunny, slight breeze. No storms forecast.


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have never actually had to use these techniques, but I've done quite a lot of research on this as I'm often in areas where lightning could be a danger. This is what I've heard:
> 
> ...




Generally right with the addition of clasp your hands over the top of your head with your elbows resting on your knees. You are trying to make sure that if you are hit, the lightning takes a path in your body away from your brain and heart and the idea of this is it goes straight down your arms into your legs and the ground rather than through your head and torso. Another option is to kneel on the ground with your bum in the air and your head down but not touching the ground.

The reason for keeping your feet together and not touching the ground with your hands is that if the lightning hits the ground in your vicinity it can create quite large voltage differences along the ground as the current in the strike spreads out. That could lead to you getting quite a large shock because your hands and feet, or even two feet are at different voltages. A former work colleague had the whole of two football teams taken out (knocked out, not killed) that way by a lightning strike near the pitch they were playing on.

Finally, as a correction, the safety in a car is not the Faraday Cage effect. That is concerned with electrostatics whereas lightning is a pulsed effect. In a car its what is known as the skin effect. Short pulse currents travel in the surface layers of a metal, not the bulk which means they flow through the outside layers of the metal bodywork, not the inside layers. A good idea not to touch any of the bodywork and check they are actually metal body panels - many these days are composite and won't help. Its explained a bit more here


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## Beebo (28 Jun 2011)

I hope this passes over London before I cycle home.

I guess in any large city you can hope that the lightning will hit the taller buildings and ignore the little cyclist. Is that about right?


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## sheddy (28 Jun 2011)

Went looking for dead cows onternet. The common theme seemed to be that they were either standing under a tree or next to a fence at the time


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## BrumJim (28 Jun 2011)

Beebo said:


> I hope this passes over London before I cycle home.
> 
> I guess in any large city you can hope that the lightning will hit the taller buildings and ignore the little cyclist. Is that about right?




Works in most cities, but in London, when lightning strikes, the big tall buildings that are owned or occupied by banks don't get hit, and it is the small man that suffers instead.


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## gaz (28 Jun 2011)

Don't slow-motion videos show that lighting doesn't hit the ground. A separate 'stream' of lighting comes up from the ground and then meets the other


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## Bodhbh (28 Jun 2011)

GregCollins said:


> once got caught up on Plynlimon in a storm. No trees up there so I was the tallest thing for miles around. terrified. After a couple of CGI special effect like strikes I threw the bike on the floor, ran a good distance away from it and hit the deck and lay face down with hands over my head/ears whilst the hail and then the rain lashed down on me.



Similar thing happened to me. Touring in Germany, I got caught up in one cycling along a ridge some 500m up. I dunno what the real risks are, but it did not seem a great idea to be tranversing this on a lump of metal in a storm, so ran off to find a hollow, dumped the frigging metal lump a good 20m away, then pitched the tent and cowered in there 40mins.


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## kedab (28 Jun 2011)

i have managed to avoid the thunderstorms by not going to work  

before the storms made it to east anglia i did manage to clean my bike so it's all shiny and stuff and now it's not allowed out - it needed the clean as well, i was very bad and didn't dry, clean or lube the poor blighter after my last excursion in the moist weather  
hope every one makes it home without incident - take care CC'ers


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2011)

still here !


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## Andrew_P (28 Jun 2011)

Glad I have a carbon


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Red Light said:


> Another option is to kneel on the ground with your bum in the air and your head down but not touching the ground.




Hmm, could I find an illustration of that in the Kama Sutra?! 

Another good rule of thumb is the 30-30 rule. It goes something like this: 
If the time between the moment you see the flash and the moment you hear the thunder is less than 30 seconds, find shelter. 
If the lightning, after coming towards you, then starts to go away, don't assume you'll be safe - it can come back again. So, once the flash and the thunder are separated by more than 30 seconds, wait where you are for 30 minutes before leaving your shelter.



Red Light said:


> A good idea not to touch any of the bodywork and check they are actually metal body panels - many these days are composite and won't help.



Very good point.


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Here's the definitive guide as to what to do in storms! Enjoy!

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH-1-MGBv_s&feature=related[/media]


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## suecsi (28 Jun 2011)

Still cracking on over South West London (Kingston) at the moment. Just checked my purse and I do have enough money for a taxi to the station if I want to be a wimp (the joys of a Brompton with a cover).


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## rb58 (28 Jun 2011)

And keep your umbrella down whilst cycling.....


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## deckertim (28 Jun 2011)

I was struck by lightening once. It is not a good idea to stand watching a storm with your hands on top of a strand of barbed wire, which was on top of a six foot fence. I got flung in the air and landed on my back on the lawn. My family not realising what had happened had all ran into the house to escape the rain leaving me behind.


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## buddha (28 Jun 2011)

I just managed to beat the downpour by 30 seconds.
Expecting it to rain around 4pm (according to the reports) so planned an 80 mile ride. But looking at the sky, I cut it to 60 and somehow found the energy to 'sprint' home, as the lightning flashed and thunder rumbled.
Gods of Rain and Thunder - I laugh in your face!


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

sheddy said:


> Went looking for dead cows onternet. The common theme seemed to be that they were either standing under a tree or next to a fence at the time



My dad once saw a lightning strike on a field of cows being herded by a farmer. The cows keeled over dead all around the farmer, but he was unhurt.


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## rb58 (28 Jun 2011)

^^
Me too. I headed for Redhill to visit a colleague, got a text from him saying the the storm had already arrived there, so I turned tail and dashed home. Walked through the door literally as the rains started. Must be my lucky day - think I'll buy a lottery ticket! Got 25 miles in, so not a complete waste though!


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## blockend (28 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> Don't slow-motion videos show that lighting doesn't hit the ground. A separate 'stream' of lighting comes up from the ground and then meets the other




That's true. Leaders from ionised channels of air meet stepped leaders from the cloud. The brightest part of the stroke is the return. A number of ground objects can give off a leader and there's video evidence of near misses from people standing close to objects that give off a leader which aren't met by the downstroke, most lightning strikes are multiple strokes.


Usually lightning is negatively charged but a small percentage is positive and that's the stuff that can bring down aircraft. I once watched a massive anvil thunder cloud in Derbyshire from a distant hill. A huge horizontal lightning stroke travelled tens of miles to the west beyond the storm belt and earthed bellow clear blue sky, the fabled bolt from the blue.
I'm not at all convinced about the highest object theory. The house I grew up in was struck (it put the chimney through my bedroom ceiling) and that was surrounded by tall mill chimneys and higher houses on a ridge. Another house I lived had an electrical junction box in the garden hit and we were surrounded by hills and tall trees. I take thunderstorms pretty seriously if I'm on a bike.


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## Mad at urage (28 Jun 2011)

BrumJim said:


> Cycling fast through a thunderstorm results in you having more chance of being struck by lightning:
> 
> If you move a metal object through a magnetic field, then if creates a potential, and therefore current flows. It is the principal that all generators work on.
> 
> ...






LOCO said:


> Glad I have a carbon


Not convinced: 
http://www.engr.utk....N%20FIBERS.html

"* APPLICATIONS* The two main applications of carbon fibers are in specialized technology, which includes aerospace and nuclear engineering, and in general engineering and transportation, which includes engineering components such as bearings, gears, cams, fan blades and automobile bodies. Recently, some new applications of carbon fibers have been found. Such as rehabilitation of a bridge [6] in building and construction industry. Others include: decoration in automotive, marine, general aviation interiors, general entertainment and musical instruments and after-market transportation products [7][sup]. [/sup]*Conductivity in electronics technology provides additional new application. T*_able 2 illustrates some of the characteristics and applications of carbon fibers[8][sup] [/sup]. _

Table 3: Characteristics and Applications of Carbon Fibers​1. Physical strength, specific toughness, light weight

Aerospace, road and marine transport, sporting goods

2. High dimensional stability, low coefficient of thermal expansion, and low abrasion

Missiles, aircraft brakes, aerospace antenna and support structure, large telescopes, optical benches, waveguides for stable high-frequency (GHz) precision measurement frames

3. Good vibration damping, strength, and toughness

Audio equipment, loudspeakers for Hi-fi equipment, pickup arms, robot arms

*4. **Electrical conductivity*

*Automobile hoods, novel tooling, casings and bases for electronic equipments, EMI and RF shielding, brushes*

5. Biological inertness and x-ray permeability

Medical applications in prostheses, surgery and x-ray equipment, implants, tendon/ligament repair

6. Fatigue resistance, self-lubrication, high damping

Textile machinery, genera engineering

7. Chemical inertness, high corrosion resistance

Chemical industry; nuclear field; valves, seals, and pump components in process plants

8. *Electromagnetic properties*

*Large generator retaining rings, radiological equipment*
​"
(OK so they got their table numbering wrong  )


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## blockend (28 Jun 2011)

To add to my theory that lightning doesn't always strike the tallest object, here's a picture of the shuttle rocket getting a miss while the launch pad takes a hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sts8storm.jpg


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> My dad once saw a lightning strike on a field of cows being herded by a farmer. The cows keeled over dead all around the farmer, but he was unhurt.



That's because cows have legs that are far apart while the farmers are close together.


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

Red Light said:


> That's because cows have legs that are far apart while the farmers are close together.


Yep. The current flows up one end/side of a cow and out the other, via the heart, which is stopped by the shock. The farmer not only has his/her feet close together (so less potential difference between them to drive current through him/her) but is also probably wearing rubber wellies. They wouldn't help much if the farmer got a strike on the head, but in terms of current bypassing the ground and taking an easier route through said farmer, they certainly would.


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

blockend said:


> I'm not at all convinced about the highest object theory. The house I grew up in was struck (it put the chimney through my bedroom ceiling) and that was surrounded by tall mill chimneys and higher houses on a ridge. Another house I lived had an electrical junction box in the garden hit and we were surrounded by hills and tall trees.






Lightning doesn't always hit the tallest object. Lightning can hit anywere, but the probability it hits an object increases the higher it is in relation to other surrounding objects. That's the theory anyway. Personally, I'd prefer not to put it to the test! If I see big anvils in the sky and I'm up a mountain or in the middle of a field, I try to get the hell out of there!


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Here's a brave man:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSV1ocCEOdY[/media]


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## sunnyjim (28 Jun 2011)

Mad@urage said:


> Not convinced:
> 
> Not sure Brumjim's explanation was intended to convince anyone but his wife.... But.. just collect all that electricty generated in the frame by cycling through the earths magnetic field, then use it to power a motor to drive the bike to make it go faster and generate more power and...
> 
> ...


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

_"A bolt of lightning is a current that can generate up to 300,000 Amps."_

Er, no ... it *is* a current of up to 300,000 Amps!

That looked fun though.

In the 1970s, I was shown round some of the electrical engineering labs at the then Lanchester Polytechnic (now Coventry University). They had some pretty scary equipment in the bowels of the building! 

In one of the labs, I watched an experiment being done on the kind of porcelain insulator stack used to hang high voltage cables from pylons. The experiment consisted of applying several hundred thousand volts across the stack and then spraying it with salty water until _'something'_ happened.

I wasn't quite prepared for what the _'something'_ was! (I was a naive 18 year old at the time ... )

I watched the kV meter reading creeping up and could hear disturbing hums, crackles and hisses being emitted from the insulators, Then they started to emit an eerie glow. The whole gubbins was housed in a big wire mesh cage and I knew that we were safe but I wasn't quite prepared for the emotional impact of standing 10 feet away from what was effectively a mini lightning bolt suddenly flashing over!

I leapt about 3 feet in the air and gibbered like a very gibbery thing while the lab technicians almost wet themselves with laughter. Apparently, everyone reacts the same way the first time they witness it! 

It certainly gave me more respect for lightning and I do my best to steer clear of it!


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Wow! That sounds mental! That place would be a great venue for any school trip! I bet they don't do it anymore, though: health and safety regulations and all that stuff.


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Jun 2011)

I just know I'm gong to look stupid now, but isn't the reason the farmer was okay in the cowfield, the same as why you're safe in a car and presumably why you'd be safe on a bike?	Rubber insulators like wellies and tyres?


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Well, it's true I forgot to add that in my spare time I'm a super-hero!
The thing is, if you're in a place where you know you're vulnerable and you can't find adequate shelter, then you adopt this position. It's a last resort, of course. As I said, I've never actually had to do this, I guess I've been lucky so far. 
This reminds me of another clue - apparently if you start hearing a humming noise then it's a bad. I think in that situation, then you really would need to be a superhero to avoid getting hit!


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## Tynan (28 Jun 2011)

how many people killed by lightening every year out of however many million people and thousand thunder storms?

more like to slide in the wet road and wreck while worrying about lightning

anyone ever see that spooky documentary where they were filming with a camera that could image electrical charge

a charge rises from the ground to meet the bolt coming down, with the charge from the ground rising a good thirty plus feet


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## Lien Sdrawde (28 Jun 2011)

I believe (with a fairly dubious amount of certainty) that your heart will only stop if it is in a certain phase of its beating pattern - AV to SV node and all that kind of thing.

I believe also that people who are struck often have a metallic taste sensation before it happens - so if you remember what it was like the first time you tried to bite the roof of one of your 'hot wheels' cars.... you know its either (a) time to pen a very very quick will, or (b) hit the deck sharpish.

On a side note for the younger generation, and girlies, if you missed out on 'hot wheels' and the desire to chew one, you could experiment experiencing this sensation by chewing a zinc tablet (available from any supermarket / chemist) - however, be warned that if you try this you will hate me till the moment you die, or, if you cant taste anything metallic you can be certain you are a severe alcoholic. Dont say I didnt warn you about chewing the zinc tablet - I would rather have taken my chances with the lightening.


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I just know I'm gong to look stupid now, but isn't the reason the farmer was okay in the cowfield, the same as why you're safe in a car and presumably why you'd be safe on a bike?	Rubber insulators like wellies and tyres?



That's part of the answer but the principle one is the current flows away from the point of the lightning strike through the ground. The ground is a resistance and as you will remember from Ohm's Law at school, current flowing through a resistor generates a voltage. The greater the distance betwen two points the bigger the resistance between them and the bigger the voltage. Now on a cow the legs are far apart at the four corners and there is a heart between the front and the back legs. The lightining strike creates a big voltage between those legs causing current to flow up the back legs, through the heart and down the front legs (or vice versa) This stops the cows heart. The farmer on the other hand has two legs close together with usually just one of his brains in between them. So the voltage is much smaller and the current doesn't flow through his heart in going up one leg and down the other. But a former work colleague was playing in a football match when the pitch was struck and both teams ended up unconscious on the ground so there is an element of luck (plus footballers seem to be much more dependent on the brain between their legs)


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I just know I'm gong to look stupid now, but isn't the reason the farmer was okay in the cowfield, the same as why you're safe in a car and presumably why you'd be safe on a bike?	Rubber insulators like wellies and tyres?


So you reckon that something that is powerful enough to ionise up to 30 km of air to blast a current through it is going to have 'second thoughts' when it comes against a few mm of rubber?  

I've already posted elsewhere about a lad who was truck by lightning near to where my sister lives in Coventry. Hang on - report. 



BBC news said:


> One of his shoes had completely disintegrated.



Being inside metal cars is safe because they act like Faraday cages, just like the chain mail suit worn by Richard Hammond in that video clip, and like the metal cage in the electrical lab I described above.

You are 100% not safe riding your bike in a thunderstorm unless you are wearing a chain-mail suit at the time or are riding inside a big metal box! Even then, you'd probably crash when your tyres were vapourised ...


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## Bman (28 Jun 2011)

Hang on. 

Isnt the lightning (electricity) just looking for the easiest way to ground (negative)? 
Why would it travel up one leg and down the other? 
Surely the route it has to travel up one leg and down the other is longer and has more resistance than the route it would take through the ground, between the feet?


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Tynan said:


> how many people killed by lightening every year out of however many million people and thousand thunder storms?



Of course, you're right that the chances of being hit by lightning are very small - but that shouldn't lead to complacency. We've already seen in this thread one guy who's actually been hit by lightning (not directly, but through a fence). We've also heard from people who have seen cows and football players being hit. The thing is, although the chances of being _directly_ hit are small, the chances of being injured or even killed _indirectly_ are high enough that you should take it very seriously. 



Red Light said:


> That's part of the answer but the principle one is the current flows away from the point of the lightning strike through the ground. The ground is a resistance and as you will remember from Ohm's Law at school, current flowing through a resistor generates a voltage. The greater the distance betwen two points the bigger the resistance between them and the bigger the voltage. Now on a cow the legs are far apart at the four corners and there is a heart between the front and the back legs. The lightining strike creates a big voltage between those legs causing current to flow up the back legs, through the heart and down the front legs (or vice versa) This stops the cows heart. The farmer on the other hand has two legs close together with usually just one of his brains in between them. So the voltage is much smaller and the current doesn't flow through his heart in going up one leg and down the other. But a former work colleague was playing in a football match when the pitch was struck and both teams ended up unconscious on the ground so there is an element of luck (plus footballers seem to be much more dependent on the brain between their legs)



This is great! I don't think I've ever heard anyone illustrating the principles of electricity with grazing cows before! A fine show!


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## dellzeqq (28 Jun 2011)

Bongman said:


> Hang on.
> 
> Isnt the lightning (electricity) just looking for the easiest way to ground (negative)?
> Why would it travel up one leg and down the other?
> Surely the route it has to travel up one leg and down the other is longer and has more resistance than the route it would take through the ground, between the feet?


balls of steel?

I've found this thread both entertaining and informative - thanks, one and all!


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

Tynan said:


> how many people killed by lightening every year out of however many million people and thousand thunder storms?



About ten times as many as are killed by cyclists on pavements and people seem to make a lot of fuss about that


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

Bongman said:


> Hang on.
> 
> Isnt the lightning (electricity) just looking for the easiest way to ground (negative)?
> Why would it travel up one leg and down the other?
> Surely the route it has to travel up one leg and down the other is longer and has more resistance than the route it would take through the ground, between the feet?



Ah but in reality those legs are just bags full of salty water which is a good conductor.

But in reality the current will flow through both routes with the split being in inverse proportion to the resistance of each.


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

> Being inside metal cars is safe because they act like Faraday cages



No they don't.


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Red Light said:


> Ah but in reality those legs are just bags full of salty water which is a good conductor.



As indeed are we!! Just imagine a bolt of lightning meeting any of us! Just think how tempting it would be to pass through our lovely watery, salty bodies. Yum!


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## Simba (28 Jun 2011)

You are on rubber tyres so you will be fine as the lightning wont ground.


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Simba said:


> You are on rubber tyres so you will be fine as the lightning wont ground.



That's just not true. The lightning has already travelled thousands of metres in the air, a few milimetres of rubber won't save you.


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## Holdsworth (28 Jun 2011)

Also rubber tyres make no difference to the path or severity of damage caused by lightning. The insulating effects are made null and void by the sheer power of the strike and as said before lightning will take the easiest path to the ground. This may be straight through through the tyre or jumping the short distance from the bodywork/frame to the ground. It has already travelled a mile or more to the ground, a few extra inches of air is nothing.


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> So you reckon that something that is powerful enough to ionise up to 30 km of air to blast a current through it is going to have 'second thoughts' when it comes against a few mm of rubber?





I'm basing my opinion on lightning being like burglars and if one target looks harder than a near neighbour, the near neighbour cops it. So I'm guessing the rubber could be enough if there's an easier path nearby?


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

Seems to me that the older I get, the more I respect storms. I guess it all started for me when I was a mountain leader. In those days, I was responsible for the safety of others in my group. I learned to quit being naive about the danger storms present and face up to the fact that you really have to be alert to them. There's an article about it in travelling two. These guys need no introduction to the cycling tourist crowd. But even the author of this article admits that they find storms amongst the scariest things on their travels. As they say, you shouldn't be hung up about storms too much, you do need to put things in perspective. But a healthy amount of respect for the power of storms and knowing what to do if you can't find shelter could save your bacon one day.


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## blockend (28 Jun 2011)

Why it's not a good idea to stand under a tree in a thunderstorm:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6PJdAee7qY&feature=related


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

Red Light said:


> No they don't.


I stand corrected. Actually - I sit at my PC corrected!


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I stand corrected. Actually - I sit at my PC corrected!




Surgical boots can be such a God send.


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## Davidc (28 Jun 2011)

If you're on a bike make sure you're wearing a helmet and you'll be fine - the helmet's made of polystyrene and that's an insulator!

(Ducks, takes cover, and runs).


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## Jimmy Doug (28 Jun 2011)

They're also good make-shift contraceptives!


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## sunnyjim (28 Jun 2011)

Red Light said:


> No they don't.





Oh yes they do.


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## Zoiders (28 Jun 2011)

Lighting is highly non-linear and most of the protection advice is conjecture.

Short of not being under a storm cloud there is little to be done.

They have taken footage of lightning strikes and the area about to be hit begins to glow, little streamers of plasma begin to be given off from objects at ground level, which ever streamer climbs the highest completes the circuit and allows the lightning to strike ground, this seems to a fairly random process and not as dependent on height or conductivity as people imagine.


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2011)

Zoiders said:


> They have taken footage of lightning strikes and the area about to be hit begins to glow, little streamers of plasma begin to be given off from objects at ground level, which ever streamer climbs the highest completes the circuit and allows the lightning to strike ground, this seems to a fairly random process and not as dependent on height or conductivity as people imagine.


I was talking to Fiona N on Sunday and she told me that she got caught out in a thunderstorm on a ride once and her bike started sizzling and buzzing ... _yikes!_


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I was talking to Fiona N on Sunday and she told me that she got caught out in a thunderstorm on a ride once and her bike started sizzling and buzzing ... _yikes!_



I could find myself with a severely slapped face for my answer if a lady had said similar to me.


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## Red Light (28 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I was talking to Fiona N on Sunday and she told me that she got caught out in a thunderstorm on a ride once and her bike started sizzling and buzzing ... _yikes!_



Yes, that is a strong warning sign along with the hair on your head standing up. In mountaineering you are advised to dump anything metallic and take shelter well away from it because of the propensity of conducting objects to attract strikes.


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## Glow worm (29 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I was talking to Fiona N on Sunday and she told me that she got caught out in a thunderstorm on a ride once and her bike started sizzling and buzzing ... _yikes!_



I've had similar from cycling under pylons - or rather the wires between them- weird. 

Interesting thread this- I got 7% in my last ever physics exam, and wouldn't know an amp from a volt from a kilowatt, but have probably learned more reading this thread than 2 years of physics torture at school! The cow thing is something I never knew- giraffes must be well and truly f****d in a storm!


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## asterix (29 Jun 2011)

My barn wot I am converting is on top of the highest ground for far and wide. It is the highest building too. We get quite a few storms and it is possible to watch them approach from miles away.

When there is a thunderstorm I just tell myself that as it hasn't been struck for c. 3 centuries I may be ok. When I was living in a caravan next to it there was a storm and the lightning strike was very close. Huge blue flashes came from beneath the seat opposite to me where the Zig unit was and it tripped all the switches. The thunder clap was simultaneous, a tremendous crack that shook the caravan like a drum beat.

A later storm fried my laptop's power supply that I had foolishly failed to disconnect. 

I have been in a building struck by lighting. It had a lightning conductor but even so many of the plug sockets were blown out of the walls.


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## skudupnorth (29 Jun 2011)

We had the joy of watching our salesmen run like mad to put the cabriolet roof's up on two brand new Porsche's when the rain came today in Bolton ...oh what joy !!!


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## Jimmy Doug (29 Jun 2011)

asterix said:


> My barn wot I am converting is on top of the highest ground for far and wide. It is the highest building too. We get quite a few storms and it is possible to watch them approach from miles away.





My wife's uncle lived in a converted barn such as yours - near the top of a mountain in the Lozère. His tales of how lightning regular falls nearby are enough to scare the shite out of anyone. Good luck with it!
Has anyone ever experienced ball lightning? It's very rare, so probably not. My wife's grandmother has. It was in the south of France - in Provence somewhere. Ball lightning came down the chimney and moved slowly across the room - and then crashed into the wall. No damage - apart from her nerves!


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## Glow worm (29 Jun 2011)

asterix said:


> When there is a thunderstorm I just tell myself that as it hasn't been struck for c. 3 centuries I may be ok.



In Norfolk they would always plant house leek ( a kind of succulent plant a bit like a hardy cactus) on the roof pantiles as it is said it will stop your house from getting struck by lightning. I planted some on my parent's house there 15 or so years ago, and so far it's worked a treat! (It keeps witches away too apparently - although I'm less sure about that one as it didn't stop an ex -girlfriend coming round once).


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## ColinJ (29 Jun 2011)

Glow worm said:


> The cow thing is something I never knew- giraffes must be well and truly f****d in a storm!


Unfortunately, so are lots of African schoolchildren ...


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## Jimmy Doug (29 Jun 2011)

Awful. But interesting to note that such incidents seem to be on the increase since the felling of trees. When forests are replaced by shrup, buildings and people are more likely to be hit.


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## Lien Sdrawde (30 Jun 2011)

video here showing you dont necessarily need to be right by the strike to be affected by it  

Never heard of ball lightening before (and I love strange weather things) so thanks for that. Found a video on youtube if your interested - ball lightening


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## Jimmy Doug (30 Jun 2011)

Doesn't look like ball lightning to me. That looks like a conventional flash. When I think of ball lightning, this is what I think of:







I used to think ball lightning belonged to the realms of science fiction - but it's a reality, albeit very rare. It was my wife's grandmother's vivid account that convinced me of its existence. Now, thanks to the Internet, you can find videos of it. Here's one:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XKpY8MTyQ8[/media]


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## Jimmy Doug (30 Jun 2011)

Oh, I see. You posted the same video twice.


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## blockend (30 Jun 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Has anyone ever experienced ball lightning? It's very rare, so probably not. My wife's grandmother has. It was in the south of France - in Provence somewhere. Ball lightning came down the chimney and moved slowly across the room - and then crashed into the wall. No damage - apart from her nerves!



My mother did as a child. She said it rolled across a field and killed a horse then set fire to a barn. I looked at some weather records and the date tallied with a freak storm that lasted most of a week.
I was talking to a fellow cyclist about this and he said ball lightning had been seen by his parents outside their home. A friend who lives in France was fishing in the heart of a storm and he told me the strikes were so close that small plasma balls were falling from the surrounding trees. I think these are what are known as 'bead lightning'. 

I suspect there are a number of phenomena described as ball lightning. One is falls of fiery solid matter, sometimes described as 'thunderbolts', the main type is the hovering, glowing plasma type object that passes up or down chimneys, through windows and walls and often ends with an explosive crack, sometimes lethal, often not.

Upper atmosphere lightning is strange stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper-atmospheric_lightning


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## Zoiders (2 Jul 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Doesn't look like ball lightning to me. That looks like a conventional flash. When I think of ball lightning, this is what I think of:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is Brisbane near a military training area? as that looks like a mortar illumination round/flare on a parachute.

If the wind takes one they will stay aloft until they burn out, plus it's the wrong side of the light spectrum for lightning which is more LED light (white/blue) than incandescent bulb (yellow/red).


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