# Brompton Rival?



## Cycleops (21 Jul 2019)

There's a new lightweight folder about, carbon frame with belt drive either single speed or Alfine 11. Looks tasty but quite a price.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ke-high-performance-carbon-watch-out-brompton


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## alicat (21 Jul 2019)

Nah, the attraction of a Brompton for me is the quick and small fold. That wins over speed every time.


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## smutchin (21 Jul 2019)

It's not just a bit more expensive than the Brompton, it's double the price. That's going to be quite a big sticking point for most buyers who want a folder for the practicality. In the niche market for performance bikes that also fold, its main rival will more likely be the Airnimal Chameleon.

See also: the Hummingbird


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## srw (21 Jul 2019)

It's yet another Dahon knock off. The much vaunted magnet is also a feature of that brand.


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## palinurus (21 Jul 2019)

Folds in the middle like a Dahon. Nice and light but without the combination of a compact fold this doesn't seem such a benefit. For a light-ish, nippy folder I'd go Airnimal (again- I had one for a short while)


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## StuAff (21 Jul 2019)

Kind of like the Hummingbird, it seems a bit 'carbon frame for the sake of it'. Not that much lighter than the lightest Tern models (Cyclist weighed their test bike at 8.5 kg…and that was the single speed version not the Alfine), a few seeming niggles on the quality front (creaking etc). If you want a fast folding bike, Airnimal still lead. If you want a simple and compact(ish) fold, at the expense of a little performance, Tern still lead.


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## tds101 (21 Jul 2019)

There's no such thing as a Brompton Rival,...this is just another overpriced, carbon framed folder.


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## TheDoctor (21 Jul 2019)

Sooner have a Brompton, both Ribbles, the Dynatech SS speeder and a few hundred £££ left over!
Carbon is'nt good for hard points, which are what you need in a folding bike.
It also doesn't do well in long skinny beam sections, and that bike was nothing but long beam sections.


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## Cycleops (22 Jul 2019)

I think it's just too expensive and specialist. If you go for the alfine hub version it's getting on for 3k. For a lot less money I'd rather have a Birdy.


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## Drago (22 Jul 2019)

What usefulness does the extra £1000 bring?

I'd have a Tern anyway - I like the way they ride, not that I have a need for a folder.


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## Kell (22 Jul 2019)

I like the look of it.

But as you say, getting on for three times the price of a Brompton once you've added gearing.

And no mudguards - though you can order some for £200.

And no chain stays. Does that mean there'll be a rider weight limit? I can't see that being very strong, but obviously necessary because of the belt drive. Though I have seen bikes with hinged pieces that swing out the way to allow you to refit a belt.

Do like the idea of a belt drive and disc brakes though.


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## Kell (22 Jul 2019)

StuAff said:


> Not that much lighter than the lightest Tern models (Cyclist weighed their test bike at 8.5 kg…and that was the single speed version not the Alfine)



It looks like on their site, the 7.48kg quoted weight version is the Atto Monaco which will also lighten your wallet considerably to the tune of £6,000 and is only available single speed.






https://www.austincycles.cc/products/the-atto-monaco


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## StuAff (22 Jul 2019)

Kell said:


> It looks like on their site, the 7.48kg quoted weight version is the Atto Monaco which will also lighten your wallet considerably to the tune of £6,000 and is only available single speed.
> 
> View attachment 476552
> 
> ...


I saw that. Barking price tag.


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2019)

Cycleops said:


> I think it's just too expensive and specialist. If you go for the alfine hub version it's getting on for 3k. For a lot less money I'd rather have a Birdy.



I've not ridden a Birdy but I've always liked the look of them. There used to be a chap who got the same train as me who had a Bike Friday and they look rather spiffing too, but I've never ridden one of those either.

I have ridden an Airnimal Joey and very much liked it - it rides like a proper bike. But I don't really consider it a true folder - you could get away with taking it on the train for a mixed commute, but it's far from convenient compared to the standard commuter choices (most of the ones I see on the train these days are Brompton or Btwin). 

I've ridden the Hummingbird and loved it. I would get one, if I could afford it. In fact, if money were no object, I'd get the Hummingbird e-bike, which is truly awesome (even with the motor it's lighter than a Superlight Brompton, which is why it accelerates like a rocket).

M'colleague has ridden both the Atto and the Hummingbird - I shall have to ask him how they compare. 

The Atto looks like its folded state isn't as compact as the Hummingbird (which is taller and longer than the Brompton when folded, but also much narrower). The Hummingbird has a Brompton-style folding rear triangle, but unlike the Brompton it pivots around the bottom bracket so doesn't need a chain tensioner.


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## shingwell (22 Jul 2019)

A subtlety of the B fold that is often missed when comparing with other folders is that the oily bits are all hidden inside the folded package, away from your and other peoples clothes when you are carrying it. Even those bikes that make the B seem cheap don't seem to manage that (but I notice the Atto above seems to have a belt, so not so bad.) The B also folds so that the potentially dirty road wheels are not in contact with the floor. Just seems polite if you are taking it into someone else's property that is carpeted, like a hotel or office.


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## Smudge (22 Jul 2019)

The fold and the folded size isn't any different to almost all 20" folders. I also prefer the handlebar post to be inside the fold, not outside like this Atto.
I like its light weight tho, but its stupidly expensive.


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## berlinonaut (22 Jul 2019)

Cycleops said:


> There's a new lightweight folder about, carbon frame with belt drive either single speed or Alfine 11. Looks tasty but quite a price.
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ke-high-performance-carbon-watch-out-brompton
> 
> View attachment 476341


To me this looks suspiciuously like a clone of the Java Air folder that has been around for already for a couple of years. The quality of the Air seems to be somewhat debatable, but at least it is cheap. The clones often are vastly expensive. Already four years ago one clone was for sale in the UK under the name Lios (http://www.liosfoldingbike.com/ - domain is dead) that was advertized for ~4000€. At the same time the original Java Air goes for 1200$ or less: https://sg.carousell.com/p/java-air-20s-full-carbon-folding-bike-with-free-goodies-51071872/ A variant is for sale on ebay.uk as well https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-Folding-Bike-Road-Bicycle-Shimano-10-Speed-Disc-Brake-only-10-18kg-full-bike-/281938194262 and if you search a little bit I am sure you'll find plenty of variants and versions under different names. So I'd assume the price for the ATTO version(s) is mainly phantasy, marketing and wishful thinking...


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## StuAff (22 Jul 2019)

berlinonaut said:


> To me this looks suspiciuously like a clone of the Java Air folder that has been around for already for a couple of years. The quality of the Air seems to be somewhat debatable, but at least it is cheap. The clones often are vastly expensive. Already four years ago one clone was for sale in the UK under the name Lios (http://www.liosfoldingbike.com/ - domain is dead) that was advertized for ~4000€. At the same time the original Java Air goes for 1200$ or less: https://sg.carousell.com/p/java-air-20s-full-carbon-folding-bike-with-free-goodies-51071872/ A variant is for sale on ebay.uk as well https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-Folding-Bike-Road-Bicycle-Shimano-10-Speed-Disc-Brake-only-10-18kg-full-bike-/281938194262 and if you search a little bit I am sure you'll find plenty of variants and versions under different names. So I'd assume the price for the ATTO version(s) is mainly phantasy, marketing and wishful thinking...


The Atto is apparently a continuation of the Lios model- one of the two business partners decided to give up, the other is now doing this one under his own name.


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## kais01 (29 Jul 2019)

weight is 9.3 kg of my 2sp ti brompton commuter, with ti bolt set, ti m stem, 60 mm alloy riser, spd detachable pedals. original ti post is replaced with an aftermarket extended version.

it nevertheless has some slightly heavy add-ons, and weight includes a 69t chainwheel and corresponding longer chain, also included are pedals, rear light, mudguards, extra long mudguard flap, as well as carrier block and a rear mirror. so for a more serious weight-weenie more could easily be shaved off 

taken together means no astronomical cost to have your brompton reach weight close to the ones cited here. moreover two gears add considerable versatility and speed compared to single-speed.

bikes folded so that chain is exposed on outside of package is to me a definite and absolute no-go. exposed belt drive is ok.


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## swytchbike (7 Sep 2019)

Here is another potential new rival

Flit bike, but retailing for £2,500


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## u_i (7 Sep 2019)

Single speed for £2,500?! It is supposed to be for commuting but fenders not possible?


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## Kell (9 Sep 2019)

Maybe it's fine if you live in a very flat, very hot country. Where there is no rain and there are no hills.


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## steveindenmark (9 Sep 2019)

That is never a rival for a Brompton.


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## tds101 (14 Sep 2019)

swytchbike said:


> Here is another potential new rival
> 
> Flit bike, but retailing for £2,500


This is an electric bike, and it's a completely different category. You only posted this to sell your product,...an overpriced, rebranded chinese single speed with a cheap motor, nothing more.


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