# Deliberate collision



## Cubist (17 Mar 2009)

Last Saturday Cubette and I cycled along a quietish route, mainly involving sustrans routes. Ever since her accident in December she has been a bit nervous about going out on the road, so i decided to try and boost her confidence a bit. We had to ride a few on-road miles between paths, and I tokk the opportunity to teach her about all-round observation, and signalling.

At one junction we had to cycle from a mini-roundabout up a short stretch to a right turn. The road up to the right turn is lovely and wide, and I showed her how to check behind, signal right and if clear move to the centre line ready to turn right when safe. She was a few yards behind me and as we approached the right turn I saw that there was a car approaching us from behind, and one coming down the hill towards the junction. We paused to let him pass (a track stand of perhaps one second) and turned. The junction has a bollarded island/refuge creating a pinchpoint, so I took a primary line as I turned into the junction, and as I could hear a car engine very close behind I looked back and saw Cubette had been forced right over to the kerb, as a little sporty hatchback had tuned right at the same time as her. He was now sharing the pinchpoint with me. 

Infuriated by the fact he had bullied my eleven year old daughter into coming to a complete halt, I looked him in the eye and called him a "Tosser". This was when the fun really began. 

Looking straight at me he turned his wheel and his car connected with my shoulder, elbow, his wing mirror hit my right hand and handlebar and his front wing connected with my front wheel. I was forced into the kerb, desperately trying to unclip my feet from the pedals. As the car was now pinning my right foot, I just about managed to get my left down onto the kerb, but I was mighty close to falling off altogether. . His window came down and he told me to "Get a hold of yourself you fat b*stard" before bravely laughing and driving off. 

I was left uninjured, but very shaken and so furious I was within a gnat's cock of throwing my bike at his car as he drove off. Sense prevailed however!

I managed to get his number, and have made a statement to the police. Will keep you updated on progress. 

Cubette was in floods of tears afterwards, so I am really looking forawrd to him being prosecuted.


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## Davywalnuts (17 Mar 2009)

Oh my god! My blood boils, what a complete cock!

Am sorry to hear this has happened and with your daughter in tow that is disgusting behavour! 

Am glad you are both uninjuried, physically anyhow!

But I really hope the police chuck the book at the ***T!


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## ufkacbln (17 Mar 2009)

..... and there is a thread asking why people use cameras?


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## Cubist (17 Mar 2009)

User3143 said:


> Hope that self-gratification artist gets whats coming to him.
> 
> But I have to say this as well though, why oh why was you not cycling behind instead of in front?
> 
> I went out with my Dad for a couple of rides when I was a kid and he always stayed behind and could see what I was doing. If I done anything wrong he would tell me to pull over and then tell what I was doing wrong and how to correct it.


Lee, we take it in turns to lead and follow. We had been talking, ironically, about taking the right line, and I wanted to show her the right line for a complicated junction. She had been leading for most of the route!


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## mr Mag00 (17 Mar 2009)




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## Cubist (17 Mar 2009)

User3143 said:


> Fair enough


No, you make a good point!


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## very-near (17 Mar 2009)

What a complete cock. If I had his number, I know what I'd be inclined to do, as it is very easy to track someone down by a numberplate nowadays. It makes my blood boil just reading this. Bad luck for having to share the road with a total idiot


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## D-Rider (17 Mar 2009)

I'm furious just reading that - you must have been incandescent! I really hope he gets what he deserves...


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## Cubist (17 Mar 2009)

> I always ride behind the boy when we are out. Slightly out to the right, and I can protect him by forcing the cars wider.
> 
> That's in no way a criticism of your behaviour though. My boy is 7, 11 is an age where I'd be hoping to give more responsibility to a child.
> 
> *I do hope that the police take this seriously*.




They should do. I'm their boss! Not, you'll understand that that has anything to do with how the case progresses, as to try and influence the outcome would lack integrity. I also have to tread very carefully, as the primal urge to hit him until he stops wriggling still festers under the surface.


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## Davywalnuts (17 Mar 2009)

Ill hit him then instead, for a slap on the wrists, if you can influence that one?


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## Crackle (17 Mar 2009)

Well I hope he's prosecuted. 

I also hope Cubette is not put off, that's the 2nd incident with you now 

Anyway, what about this allegation of fatness, can he substantiate it?


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## TwickenhamCyclist (17 Mar 2009)

That sounds horrific – glad you’re both OK. Hope the little tosser gets all that’s coming to him. 
When you find out who he is, I think you should post his details up here – in the name of public interest that is – I mean, we all need to know who to be careful of while cycling on the road…


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## HLaB (17 Mar 2009)

God that's horrible; lets hope the plod can throw the book at him.


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## fossyant (17 Mar 2009)

I think the cops will take a dim view - forcing a child nearly off the road and using a car as a weapon.


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## mr_cellophane (17 Mar 2009)

Cubist said:


> Looking straight at me he turned his wheel and his car connected with my *shoulder*, elbow, his wing mirror hit my right hand and handlebar and his front wing connected with my front wheel.



How tall a car was this ? 

Couldn't you have turn your front wheel out a bit so that he would have got a nice scratch along the side ?


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## betty swollocks (17 Mar 2009)

Truly shocking!!
A hug to her from us all I'm sure.


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## Cranky (17 Mar 2009)

I hope Cubette manages to get over it. A few strokes of bad luck in a row can seriously affect a young person's confidence on a bike. My daughter's had her fair share and is a reluctant cyclist these days, unfortunately (could just be teenage, of course).


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## J4CKO (17 Mar 2009)

I'm sorry but for me, the Police wouldn't have been involved, I am not a keyboard warrior but I would track him down and I would make sure I made my point regarding his aggressive driving, I suspect his "Bravery" may run out when not behind the wheel. I think when someone performs such an act that they need to be aware of the consequences, I am never normally aggressive but that would make me so, I would bear the grudge until I got satisfaction, I have done before, I am no Hard Case but managed to put a mugger in hospital sans a few teeth so matey boy here would have just booked himself some cosmetic dentistry, maybe not tomorrow, next week or next month but at some point.


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## downfader (17 Mar 2009)

Nasty peice of work. What a coward too, hiding in a steel box and doing that. Anyway, you should have told him you're only fat because everytime you shag his mum and his missus they give you a biscuit. 

Seriously though hope the little ones ok. I would seriously want to f up anyone who scared my lil cousins and kudos to you for holding your cool. For what he did he deserves to meet Rodney.


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## Rhythm Thief (17 Mar 2009)

F**k me. What a self-gratification artist. Be sure and let us know how this one goes, I'm glad you and Cubette are ok.


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## downfader (17 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> What a complete cock. If I had his number, I know what I'd be inclined to do, as it is very easy to track someone down by a numberplate nowadays. It makes my blood boil just reading this. Bad luck for having to share the road with a total idiot



Is this true?


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## Goffins (17 Mar 2009)

downfader said:


> Is this true?



There are legit services that allow you to see where a vehicle is registered, HPI clear, all that guff.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2009)

Well done on getting his number. What can I say?!?

I suppose that the silver lining in this cloud is that you yourself are a police officer. As you say, it would be wrong for you to influence any investigiation, however, I would have thought that at the very least it would increase the vigor of any investigation that takes place. So in a sense, he chose the wrong person to mess with.

How is your daughter now after this? I really hope that she was not badly affected by this. Will she have to give evidence.


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## Archie (17 Mar 2009)

I'm usually pretty zen where I'm concerned, but if my kid was involved I'd probably lose it. 

Without a cam or witness it doesn't look good for the Police being able to make a case, but you want to push for an interview at least. That should bring them up short. And you never know, they may say the wrong thing!


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## Black Sheep (17 Mar 2009)

best reason for an ice axe i've come accross


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## Mr Creosote (17 Mar 2009)

Christ that makes my blood boil! Police or not I would have dragged the little f*cker from the car for that and given him a good shoeing.

Hope you get a successful prosecution.


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## MacB (17 Mar 2009)

Truly terrible, glad you were unharmed, shocking the damage this could do to your daughters confidence. I just don't get people like that, you behaved correctly, an excessive display of agression woudn't have helped your daughter.

I too mix following and leading when cycling with my boys, I know it feels safer to follow but you do have to demonstrate at times.


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## MajorMantra (17 Mar 2009)

Wow, what a git. Good luck following this up. It'd be so satisfying to see the scrote prosecuted.

Matthew


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## Cubist (17 Mar 2009)

Crackle said:


> Well I hope he's prosecuted.
> 
> I also hope Cubette is not put off, that's the 2nd incident with you now
> 
> Anyway, what about this *allegation of fatness*, can he substantiate it?



Not so much an allegation as a truism. Don't forget he called me a fat bastard. I'm overweight, and he's about to discover just what a bastard I can be!

To everybody else, particularly about the "keeping your cool" bit, even I was so shocked at what he had done, that I was speechless. All the time he was pinning me with the car I was concentrating on unclipping my feet, and realised after he had driven off that I hadn't even sworn at him. I think that has led to the most horrendous frustration for me. In my job I have to very wary about the use of force. I'm actually glad he "got away" as a "toe to toe" would have ended very badly for me professionally, and caused even more trauma for Cubette.


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## very-near (18 Mar 2009)

Cubist said:


> Not so much an allegation as a truism. Don't forget he called me a fat bastard. I'm overweight, and he's about to discover just what a bastard I can be!
> 
> To everybody else, particularly about the "keeping your cool" bit, even I was so shocked at what he had done, that I was speechless. All the time he was pinning me with the car I was concentrating on unclipping my feet, and realised after he had driven off that I hadn't even sworn at him. I think that has led to the most horrendous frustration for me. In my job I have to very wary about the use of force. I'm actually glad he "got away" as a "toe to toe" would have ended very badly for me professionally, and caused even more trauma for Cubette.



eciloP ?


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## Brains (18 Mar 2009)

Unfortunately my experience with the Police is that unless someone has ended up in hospital they are not interested

I was hit by a car before Xmas and knocked off

He did a hit and run
There were several witnesses, I have all the names and numbers
The driver was driving in a cycle lane inside a bus lane
He was doing hire an reward uninsured
He was partially blind and it is highly unlikely he had a valid driving license
He was caught by a number of other drivers boxing him in
He was probably drunk

The Police have a full 5 page statement.
What did the police do ? 
Not turn up despite half a dozen calls ( I had his keys, so he was not going anywhere)

2 weeks later wrote me a letter saying if he offended again they would consider the other earlier 5 offenses

Frankly I suspect if I had shot him on the side of the road I would have done everyone a favor. I wonder if the Police would have bothered to turn up to that ?

Therefore, whilst I hate to say it, get his address. It's quite impressive what a bottle of oven cleaner can do to a car's bodywork. Or if you feel really vindictive have a roofer remove and neatly stack all the tiles on his roof. From experience the cost to you is a couple of hundred quid, no theft of damage is involved, the cost to him to put the tiles back is many thousands


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## Rhythm Thief (18 Mar 2009)

We've had two lorries bricked from a footbridge near here recently. One of them was mine, which wasn't damaged, but the other had its windscreen smashed, right in front of the driver. The police were slow to take an interest, and indeed seemed baffled as to why they'd been notified at all. 
I wonder how quick they'd turn up if one of us drivers managed to catch one of the little shoots?


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## Cubist (18 Mar 2009)

The above two examples of piss poor police interest are, I hope, becoming a thing of the past. Trust me that things are getting better here, but I can't speak for all the forces across the country.


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## Cubist (18 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> eciloP ?



evoba ees


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## Black Sheep (18 Mar 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> We've had two lorries bricked from a footbridge near here recently. One of them was mine, which wasn't damaged, but the other had its windscreen smashed, right in front of the driver. The police were slow to take an interest, and indeed seemed baffled as to why they'd been notified at all.
> I wonder how quick they'd turn up if one of us drivers managed to catch one of the little shoots?



tell them you've got a pop gun

they turn up quickly as they think they've heard you say shot gun. 

can't help thinking it'd be amusing if the OP ended up conducting the police interview with the little scrote


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## summerdays (18 Mar 2009)

It's Cubette I'm most worried about ... (not meaning you don't count - it shouldn't happen to anyone), but just when you take her out to boost her confidence this happens. I hope you get a result from the justice system to prove to her that it was wrong and that he didn't get away with it. I guess the next couple of times you are going to have to be behind her when doing a right turn and hopefully the next motorists will show her more consideration and help rebuild her confidence.


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## summerdays (18 Mar 2009)

Pushing tin said:


> can't help thinking it'd be amusing if the OP ended up conducting the police interview with the little scrote



He wouldn't be allowed to (I assume)... plus, speaking not as a police officer, I wouldn't be able to detach myself from my emotions at the time. 

Will he be told that it was a policeman that he tried to intimerdate? (sorry can't remember how to spell that).


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## Cubist (18 Mar 2009)

summerdays said:


> He wouldn't be allowed to (I assume)... plus, speaking not as a police officer, I wouldn't be able to detach myself from my emotions at the time.
> 
> Will he be told that it was a policeman that he tried to intimerdate? (sorry can't remember how to spell that).



No, I won't be allowed to interview him. 

He'll find out who I am soon enough!


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## peanut (18 Mar 2009)

just wanted to register my support but haven't time to read 5 pages of posts sorry. 
The problem with shouting at drivers is there is always the possibility that the driver will use the car as weapon to get back at you. You were very lucky. The guy should lose his license for sure but will probably just get a warning.


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## summerdays (18 Mar 2009)

Hopefully he will think before he tries it again that it could be an off duty policeman.... and perhaps tell a few of his friends too...


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## John the Monkey (18 Mar 2009)

Horrible.

I hope you're both ok, and that this becomes a distant memory fairly soon - good luck with exacting some sort of legal retribution on the driver too.



peanut said:


> The problem with shouting at drivers is there is always the possibility that the driver will use the car as weapon to get back at you



Yep, although it would be a better man than I who held his tongue after someone chanced the life of one of my kids to gain a couple of seconds on their journey.


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## Eat MY Dust (18 Mar 2009)

Cubist, can't you "plant" several kilos of heroine (or similar) in his car? That'd teach 'im!!


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## tyred (18 Mar 2009)

Sorry to hear about this. Incidents like that make my blood boil. He was a big tough guy sitting in his car, I bet outside of it, if you approached him, he'd be shitting himself.


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## Bollo (18 Mar 2009)

Cubist said:


> The above two examples of piss poor police interest are, I hope, becoming a thing of the past. Trust me that things are getting better here, but I can't speak for all the forces across the country.



Muchos sympathos and I hope the pointless f**ker gets what's coming to him.

I've been lucky enough to have avoided any incidents with Bolletta on the tandem, but then I've got much closer control of the situation. She'd be in bits if something like that happened to us while we were out.

I've said some unkind things on here about the police's attitude to this type of thing so I really hope there are signs of improvement.

Good luck with it all.


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## Panter (18 Mar 2009)

Really saddened to read this.

To start with, I felt livid and could only feel your frustration at not being able to get him at the time.

On reflection now, I guess it's the best outcome so far. He got away before you had chance to endanger your career and further upset your Daughter, and you have his details to ensure that justice is done.

Do please keep us updated, I hope your Daughter is Ok and learns to enjoy her cycling.

I very much hope that if the same ever happens to me that i don't get a chance to get hold of the driver..........


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## Lazy-Commuter (18 Mar 2009)

This made me furious. I can't believe that somebody would do something like that. !

Hopefully, he'll be reminded that a driving licence is a privilege not a right, and hopefully it'll be a privilege he'll be denied for a while. We really don't need people like that out and about on the roads.

I really hope Cubette gets over it .. poor kid, she's not having the best time of late is she?


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## Amanda P (18 Mar 2009)

Never mind losing his license, this guy needs locking up for a bit.

We're waffling on about banning him from driving. If he had threatened Cubist with a gun or even a knife, we'd be talking about rather more than taking away his "right" to use guns or knives.


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## swee'pea99 (18 Mar 2009)

Awful story. What's almost worse tho' is the clear evidence that the likelihood is that nothing will be done about it. 

There needs to be a fundamental change of culture in the police force and among 'the authorities' generally. The powers that be need to let it be known that there will be - to use the expression - zero tolerance of this kind of behaviour. We need a few widely publicised and savagely punitive prosecutions. "If he does it again we'll consider doing something and taking the five previous incidents into consideration" just isn't good enough. These scum need to receive the message, loud and clear, that this kind of thing is to be given real priority. Otherwise it will simply continue.


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## very-near (18 Mar 2009)

Cubist said:


> evoba ees



At least you are in a position where your complaint will be acted upon with some sort of vigour, and you can follow it up yourself.

I had to go to court a year ago as a witness for the prosecution against a chav who threatened to stab one of my horses, put my windows in etc and then racially abuse my zim born neighbour, and I still don't know to this day what sentence was passed on the guy even though he was found guilty.


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## very-near (18 Mar 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']Awful story. What's almost worse tho' is the clear evidence that the likelihood is that nothing will be done about it. 

There needs to be a fundamental change of culture in the police force and among 'the authorities' generally. The powers that be need to let it be known that there will be - to use the expression - zero tolerance of this kind of behaviour. We need a few widely publicised and savagely punitive prosecutions. "If he does it again we'll consider doing something and taking the five previous incidents into consideration" just isn't good enough. These scum need to receive the message, loud and clear, that this kind of thing is to be given real priority. Otherwise it will simply continue.[/quote]

The likelihood is IMO that Cubist will get justice. Both him and his kid are witnesses.


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## wesa (18 Mar 2009)

I normally lurk and don't post much but this incident has enraged me. I know how I would feel if someone endangered my daughters. I have had a few near misses (probably less than my fair share), I can take that; but I expect a lot more tolerance towards younger cyclists. To then continue and deliberately hit someone with his car just beggars belief. Perhaps one day an HGV driver will demonstrate the same mentality towards this idiot; I can live in hope.


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## bryce (18 Mar 2009)

Tosser is an apt description. Hope his car was damaged. What car was he driving out of interest?


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## swee'pea99 (18 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> The likelihood is IMO that Cubist will get justice. Both him and his kid are witnesses.


Yes - and his being a policeman certainly won't hurt. But see message 34:

"I was hit by a car before Xmas and knocked off

He did a hit and run
There were several witnesses, I have all the names and numbers
The driver was driving in a cycle lane inside a bus lane
He was doing hire an reward uninsured
He was partially blind and it is highly unlikely he had a valid driving license
He was caught by a number of other drivers boxing him in
He was probably drunk

The Police have a full 5 page statement.
What did the police do ? 
Not turn up despite half a dozen calls ( I had his keys, so he was not going anywhere)

2 weeks later wrote me a letter saying if he offended again they would consider the other earlier 5 offenses"

And these kinds of stories appear here all the time. It's like the police will use any excuse to get out of doing anything, when they should be straining at the bit to get at these people and punish them, severely.


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## eldudino (18 Mar 2009)

Glad it wasn't more serious but it could have been. I can't believe people behave like this and expect to get away with it. I'm afraid I believe that a draconian approach to these people is the only way they will learn.


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## nilling (18 Mar 2009)

I hope Cubette is ok and you can get her confidence back after such a shocking experience 

My daughter, who is also 11 years old, prefers to follow me rather than ride out in front. But on busy roads I tend to ride 'shotgun' at the back.


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## PBancroft (18 Mar 2009)

Lazy-Commuter said:


> Hopefully, he'll be reminded that a driving licence is a privilege not a right, and hopefully it'll be a privilege he'll be denied for a while. We really don't need people like that out and about on the roads.



Unfortunately driving is treated as a right, and not a privilege. This is something that makes me really angry - people can drive dangerously, endanger the lives of others and at worst they'll temporarily lose their licence. More likely than not they'll just get a few points (if anything).

Even those who end up in prison for behaving dangerously on the road and potentially even killing someone are able to get back in the car.

Punishments for road offences are pathetic. I do hope that something is done in this case but whatever it is there really isn't anything to stop behaving like an ass again.


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## thomas (18 Mar 2009)

Cubist said:


> And these kinds of stories appear here all the time. It's like the police will use any excuse to get out of doing anything, when they should be straining at the bit to get at these people and punish them, severely.



I got fed up with the PCSO for the campus' limp wristed attitude to what was a serious complaint, that when he acted in the same, pathetic manner again I made a fuss over something which wasn't a massive deal (compared to somethings I've experienced and worst things that others have had to put up with).

Gave a full statement for it, wasted a good few hours on that. This was in December - I've still not had a follow up.

I'm leaving it now as I'm not that bothered about wasting any more of my time, but if something serious did happen to me (like I got run over, etc)....then I would really use their inability against them to take a much more serious incident/accident seriously.


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## Arch (18 Mar 2009)

Eat MY Dust said:


> Cubist, can't you "plant" several kilos of *heroine* (or similar) in his car? That'd teach 'im!!



Which one? Lara Croft? Fay Wray? 

Just to echo everyone else, I hope the guy gets seriously hammered. Or at the very least, severely frightened. But preferably both.


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## downfader (18 Mar 2009)

I have to be honest and say that sometimes on the web when I read of people's complaints about the police it seems unjustified. Sometimes the stories are just so lavish that I wonder if they were made up. Silly thing to think, but I'm naturally sceptical, and I know others have thought the same about me.


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## swee'pea99 (18 Mar 2009)

downfader said:


> I have to be honest and say that sometimes on the web when I read of people's complaints about the police it seems unjustified. Sometimes the stories are just so lavish that I wonder if they were made up.


When you say 'unjustified'...?

Are you suggesting that the stroy in Msg 34 is a fabrication?


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## downfader (18 Mar 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']When you say 'unjustified'...?

Are you suggesting that the stroy in Msg 34 is a fabrication?[/quote]

Sorry not that gent, this goes back a while..infact I dont even remember it being on a cycle forum, but a more general one. 

Sometimes its almost as if they expect the police to act on a severe lack of evidence, eg no witnesses, it was dark and they didnt get the plates.. Theres not much you can do but suddenly the police are to blame for not being psychic..

...then theres the naysayers: "They wont prosecute or do anything!" Well perhaps if more people reported serious abuse a bigger picture would build up and society in general would understand the seriousness of it all.

Just my opinion obviously.


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## thomas (18 Mar 2009)

downfader said:


> Sometimes its almost as if they expect the police to act on a severe lack of evidence, eg no witnesses, it was dark and they didnt get the plates.. Theres not much you can do but suddenly the police are to blame for not being psychic..




Back home, I must have been about 15 years old at the time. Walking with a friend when 2 lads come up saying their mate said we called his sister a "twit". Said no, turned to leave (didn't want any trouble). As I was turning, I got thumped. Didn't even see it coming, but just walked off quickly to avoid anything else happening. 2 ladies saw it all, stopped and phoned the police for me.

Police took a statement, had my friend as a witness and these 2 ladies as well (I don't know if they actual took statements of any of them, but they could have done).

They did find the person and interview him. He just accused me of mouthing off his sister. The officer who came around to tell me their outcome basically said, he seemed like a nice enough lad to us and did it because of that. He was reprimanded (or something). That was that.

I got left with a feeling that the police actually believed the person who punched me for calling his sister something which really annoyed me. Also, the comment that he seemed like a nice person really annoyed me - of course he will be, you're the police! Hopefully he'll be polite to you to try and get off.

The outcome didn't so much annoy me, as them sort of blaming me for something which was in no way my fault.


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## hackbike 666 (18 Mar 2009)

downfader said:


> I have to be honest and say that sometimes on the web when I read of people's complaints about the police it seems unjustified. Sometimes the stories are just so lavish that I wonder if they were made up. Silly thing to think, but I'm naturally* sceptical*, and I know others have thought the same about me.




Bang to rights,constable.


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## upsidedown (18 Mar 2009)

It's getting worse out there.

Expect the police to do sod all, when i had my road rage incident a couple of months ago i reported it with exact times, number plate etc, had a call back the same evening to say they would be round. 5 days later still waiting, by then the details, and the anger had faded. To be fair they did ring me late every night to tell me they couldn't make it.

These idiots know they are virtually immune from prosecution so get bolder every time they get away with it.


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## Brains (19 Mar 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']When you say 'unjustified'...?

Are you suggesting that the stroy in Msg 34 is a fabrication?[/quote]

For the full story of message 34, 
(Synopsis - Hit and run, plenty of witnesses, very obviously illegally driven vehicle. Little reaction from Police) 
See this the thread on this very site from just before Xmas.

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=24553&highlight=deptford


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## FazTheWookie (19 Mar 2009)

How about a look at http://www.ratethatdriver.co.uk/?


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## MajorMantra (19 Mar 2009)

FazTheWookie said:


> How about a look at http://www.ratethatdriver.co.uk/?



Nice as it would be to pillory all the bad drivers we meet, that really smacks of vigilantism. No accountability, no burden of proof, etc. etc.

Matthew


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

Thought you'd all like an update. The driver and passenger have both now been interviewed under caution. The driver admitted careless driving by swerving into me and the passenger gave an identical account. A file will be submitted to CPS to decide what to prosecute him for at court. Great thing for me here is that with him admitting it and the passenger corroborating events, there will be no need for Cubette to give evidence.

I also learnt that the driver has a warning marker attached to the car for anti-social behaviour. Although it can't be used on this occasion (on second occasion found committing by an officer in uniform the car can be seized and crushed) the boys and girls will be looking out for him. Seems a bit harsh...............


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## summerdays (2 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the update... look forward to hearing a final one later in the process too. And I'm glad Cubette doesn't have to give evidence.


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## John the Monkey (2 Apr 2009)

What do you reckon the chances are with the CPS?

Also, how's an intentional swerve into someone not protected by lots of metal "careless" as opposed to "dangerous"?


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## Crackle (2 Apr 2009)

Glad you updated us and that sounds like a result. It also sounds pretty inevitable that his car will get crushed at some point. Pity he won't be in it.


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## summerdays (2 Apr 2009)

Does he know that he could loose the car with further bad behaviour - and if he behaved badly in a different car would he still be in trouble (ie does that warning go with the car or his name?)


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

John the Monkey said:


> What do you reckon the chances are with the CPS?
> 
> Also, how's an intentional swerve into someone not protected by lots of metal "careless" as opposed to "dangerous"?



That's what he is admitting to. I suspect he is trying to minimise the consequences by hedging towards "I admit to clipping him, but didn't actually mean to." My statement contains what evidence I could muster that it was deliberate. It's down to CPS what they charge him with, and then the magistrates as to what punishment he will receive. Given that he did not attempt to deny the offence, CPS will take him to court, but, frustratingly, they often choose the line of least resistance.


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## dodgy (2 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the update, but if he'd punched you in the shoulder instead of using a tonne of metal, it would be viewed altogether more seriously. Funny world.


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

summerdays said:


> Does he know that he could loose the car with further bad behaviour - and if he behaved badly in a different car would he still be in trouble (ie does that warning go with the car or his name?)



Yes, it would have been made perfectly clear at the time he was given the first warning. The system does not yet cater for tagging the person rather than the vehicle, so the tag stays on the car.


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## magnatom (2 Apr 2009)

This is both good and bad news. Good news for you and your daughter, obviously, and hopefully it shows your daughter that bad behaviour will be punished, i.e. so she gains back some faith.

However, as John the Monkey has already stated, how can this possibly be construed as careless and not dangerous! The car was used as a weapon, . Something has to change in prosecuting dangerous and aggressive driving before we will have any chance of addressing it.


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

dodgy said:


> Thanks for the update, but if he'd punched you in the shoulder instead of using a tonne of metal, it would be viewed altogether more seriously. Funny world.



Actually he has no previous convictions. Had he punched me he would have received a caution, so in a way this works better. He will get mucho points on his licence, and probably a reasonably hefty fine.


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## magnatom (2 Apr 2009)

Cubist said:


> That's what he is admitting to. I suspect he is trying to minimise the consequences by hedging towards "I admit to clipping him, but didn't actually mean to." My statement contains what evidence I could muster that it was deliberate. It's down to CPS what they charge him with, and then the magistrates as to what punishment he will receive. Given that he did not attempt to deny the offence, CPS will take him to court, but, frustratingly, they often choose the line of least resistance.




Ah, ok, we'll wait and see what the CPS decides. I seriously doubt that they will go for dangerous though...


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

magnatom said:


> This is both good and bad news. Good news for you and your daughter, obviously, and hopefully it shows your daughter that bad behaviour will be punished, i.e. so she gains back some faith.
> 
> However, as John the Monkey has already stated, how can this possibly be construed as careless and not dangerous! The car was used as a weapon, . Something has to change in prosecuting dangerous and aggressive driving before we will have any chance of addressing it.



Just because he admits it was careless, doesn't mean he won't be prosecuted for dangerous driving. As I said, it's down to CPS what he gets charged with, not what he wants.


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## Lazy-Commuter (2 Apr 2009)

Cubist said:


> Thought you'd all like an update. The driver and passenger have both now been interviewed under caution. The driver admitted careless driving by swerving into me and the passenger gave an identical account. A file will be submitted to CPS to decide what to prosecute him for at court. Great thing for me here is that with him admitting it and the passenger corroborating events, there will be no need for Cubette to give evidence.
> 
> I also learnt that the driver has a warning marker attached to the car for anti-social behaviour. Although it can't be used on this occasion *(on second occasion found committing by an officer in uniform the car can be seized and crushed)* the boys and girls will be looking out for him. Seems a bit harsh...............


.. now *that *would be heartbreaking, would it not? 

Glad to hear Cubette doesn't need to get involved and good to hear you've got a result .. of sorts. Shame he's not getting done with a more serious offence, but I guess the CPS go with what's got the best chance of sticking?


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## magnatom (2 Apr 2009)

Cubist said:


> Just because he admits it was careless, doesn't mean he won't be prosecuted for dangerous driving. As I said, it's down to CPS what he gets charged with, not what he wants.




Thanks for the clarification Cubist.

I'll bet you'll just be glad when all of this is over.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (2 Apr 2009)

magnatom said:


> Thanks for the clarification Cubist.
> 
> I'll bet you'll just be glad when all of this that bl**dy chav is run over by an HGV.


Duly corrected, Mags.


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## grhm (2 Apr 2009)

On a slight tangent - how is Cubette and her confidence doing? It's good that she is not likely to have to give evidence - but is she still riding? I'd hate one accident and then this muppet to stop a cyclist being a cyclist.

You must be having a "fun" time trying to encourage and reassure her without pressurising her.


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

grhm said:


> On a slight tangent - how is Cubette and her confidence doing? It's good that she is not likely to have to give evidence - but is she still riding? I'd hate one accident and then this muppet to stop a cyclist being a cyclist.
> 
> You must be having a "fun" time trying to encourage and reassure her without pressurising her.


We had a 10 mile ride along some canal towpaths the day before yesterday, and we'll be doing a few more easy style rides now the weather is better. I can tell it's going to be a long haul getting her back up to her old self.


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## grhm (2 Apr 2009)

Glad to hear she's still willing to ride - that's the main thing. Her confidence will return eventually.

I am of the belief that driver's like this muppet are in the minority. I'd also like cyclists who are too scared of the road to become a minority. If we can instill safe, confident cycling in the next generation they might not forget it all when they start driving.

I'd like to believe that as long as new drivers don't forget their cycling youth (and preferably not give it up), the roads will slowly get more and more tollerant - although I think I might be wandering off into cloud cuckoo land here


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## Cubist (2 Apr 2009)

Just had a chat with Cubette. She's able to put December's accident down to ice and inexperience, but she is concerned that stupid drivers are all too common. I've tried to explain that there are really very few deliberate acts like the one here, and that generally, as long as you keep your wits about you, you can avoid such mishaps. I have no doubt that it will take a very long time before she fully regains her old self in terms of cycling, but as I said, we have a few months of decent weather in front of us and some quieter routes to work on.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (2 Apr 2009)

Good for you Cubist – and I’m glad the little &*$% will possibly have some grief – but it seems that the prosecution may go ahead because the driver and passenger both “owned up” to the incident. 

My problem is that getting the police to take any notice (let alone interview a driver under caution) of the type of incident you had the misfortune to encounter, is neigh impossible round this neck of the woods.


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## Twenty Inch (3 Apr 2009)

I'm glad this idiot has had a talking to and is now wondering whether he's going to lose his licence, but I infer that the police only took an interest because Cubist is a senior police officer, or on the police authority, or has some other direct influence over his local police.

If this is the case, it stinks. The London police weren't interested in pursuing the taxi driver who assaulted me, even though it was caught on CCTV, nor were they interested in prosecuting the girl who drove her car at me, and then spat in my face, despite the witness statements. It inspires no confidence at all in our police to hear that they will only take potentially lethal attacks on cyclists seriously when the victim is one of their own.

Hope Cubette gets over her fear too.


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## summerdays (3 Apr 2009)

Its still better than the police doing absolutely nothing. I agree that they don't appear to do much with cyclists complaints though in general.


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## Cubist (3 Apr 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> I'm glad this idiot has had a talking to and is now wondering whether he's going to lose his licence, but I infer that the police only took an interest because Cubist is a senior police officer, or on the police authority, or has some other direct influence over his local police.
> 
> If this is the case, it stinks. The London police weren't interested in pursuing the taxi driver who assaulted me, even though it was caught on CCTV, nor were they interested in prosecuting the girl who drove her car at me, and then spat in my face, despite the witness statements. It inspires no confidence at all in our police to hear that they will only take potentially lethal attacks on cyclists seriously when the victim is one of their own.
> 
> Hope Cubette gets over her fear too.



I think your inference is inevitable, given that an awful lot of people are let down by their police force. There are many "the police did nothing despite all the evidence stories" , most of which make me cringe with professional embarassment. However, you must remember that the quality of service differs greatly across the country. I spend a lot of my time at work ensuring people on my patch get a good quality, proportionate service. I spend a lot of time recovering poor service, or perceived poor service. So as someone who has devoted his working life to try and get the balance right I can only sympathise. 

I wonder at your example of the woman who drove at you and spat in your face. If witnesses gave statements, then it appears that an investigation was carried out. The eventual decision not to prosecute her would not have been made by the people who carried out that investigation. 

Like I said, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I have not received a service over and above anything that a member of the public on my patch would have expected, or indeed deserved.

It stinks, as you put it, that you did not receive the service you expected, or an explanation as to why no prosecutions were brought. It does NOT however stink that in this case a proper investigation was carried out.


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## jemah (6 Apr 2009)

what an idiot. so sorry you and cubette had to deal with such a w****r about 5 years ago i had a moped. i was trying to turn right across 2 lanes of traffic. these 2 guys in a bmw stopped to let me across the first lane, but i had to stop in front of them before crossing the second. they then proceeded to inch forwards until they were just pushing me. i had to choose between taking a chance trying toget across or letting the moped crush my leg. anyway, i got out of it alright, but they were laughing and waving. bastards.


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## Liddington (8 Apr 2009)

I think the police are often unfairly accused of 'lack of action' when a 'cut and dried' case doesn't get to court. As an ex-plod I know that PCs can put a shedload of work into gathering evidence, statements etc to build up a case file, only for it to be rejected when it gets considered by the CPS - very frustrating for the police! I think the CPS must have a quota of cases that they are allowed to pursue due to considerations of budgets and court time, whatever, and cases like a lot of motoring offences which are perhaps seen as not such a high priority, don't make the cut. The problem is that I don't think these things are properly communicated to the victims of the offence who are left feeling short changed. In the case where a person uses a vehicle to hit a cyclist such as with cubist, my view is that it should not be treated as a motoring offence (careless driving for that is b*ll*cks) but the offender should be charged with attempted ABH/GBH which should ensure that it receives a higher rating at the CPS when deciding which cases to proceed to prosecute.


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## Crankarm (8 Apr 2009)

I would have paid good money to have seen his face if you had been able to take out your warrant card when he pinned his car against you....

So sorry to read of your story. I too have predictable police inaction stories, but they are not important here. This is the first case where I have heard of a motorist being brought to book for his aggressive driving and so quickly. I make no judgement only welcome it. One thing you could do once it is over and hopefully he is prosecuted and convicted, is to tell the story of this incident in your internal police magazine with the slant being that the more police officers who take up cycling the better not only for improving the cycling public’s perception of road traffic enforcement, but for surprising these types of drivers. Given the amount of abuse and intimidation cyclists seem to experience most drivers seem to think there is little or no prospect of them being caught so the more officers who cycle the better as they will be well placed to tackle this type of behaviour IMHO.

I hope your daughter quickly regains confidence and forgets about it and enjoys her cycling. If anything it is most important for her and other children’s safety that this idiot is prosecuted. If on conviction he isn't disqualified he might just drive uninsured as no insurer would continue cover on the same terms after an incident as before I would have thought and certainly not without wanting more cash to cover the increased risk he presents. Originally he was insured wasn’t he?
Crush his car. Even better put him on a bike and you drive at him like he did at you and your daughter, see what colour his underpants become. 

I hope you get the result we all want.


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