# breathing!



## double0jedi (20 Apr 2015)

I'm after a little advice. When I come to a short steep hill, no matter how I attack it, be it in a low gear with lots of cycles ( cadence?) or standing on the pedals. When I get to the top I can be seriously out of breath. I don't just mean puffing a bit I mean that sometimes it feels like I can't draw breath fast enough. It can sometimes be quite painful and a bit worrying to be honest. 
Is this something that will improve with fitness ( I'm not in shape at all) or am I doing something wrong? 
Is there a breathing technique that would help?


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (21 Apr 2015)

Do you feel like you can not breath out?

I ask because what you are describing sounds like asthma to me and *I think you really need to speak with your GP and soon*.
Asthma kills something like 3-4 people every day.


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## uclown2002 (21 Apr 2015)

Lack of fitness.

Ride your back a lot more and lose some kilos if you need to.


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## vickster (21 Apr 2015)

I'd say fitness. I can get the same at the top of a hill. I'm unfit, overweight and don't have asthma. However, if concerned see a doctor

I assume you don't smoke? If so, stop


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## Citius (21 Apr 2015)

uclown2002 said:


> Lack of fitness.
> 
> Ride your back a lot more and lose some kilos if you need to.



^^^ This. Although I suspect there will now be several pages of posts advocating 'breathing techniques' over basic fitness improvements


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## Yellow Saddle (21 Apr 2015)

Citius said:


> ^^^ This. Although I suspect there will now be several pages of* posts advocating 'breathing techniques' over basic fitness improvements *



Like an aerobix instructor used to shout at us back in the day when I still "did aerobix" - Don't forget to breathe. I've taken her advice and 30 years later I'm still alive. It works.


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## Dan B (21 Apr 2015)

I often forget to breathe but it's not something to aspire to. There's a good tip for breathing in Graeme Obree's book, summarised in this blog post: https://ttrial.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/graeme-obrees-3-phase-breathing-technique/


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## J1888 (21 Apr 2015)

As above, probably worth seeing your GP first - they'll probably get you to breathe into a long cardboard tube and perhaps do other lung function test etc.

Probably just a fitness thing, but best get checked out


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## gbb (21 Apr 2015)

Are you playing catchup ?
Do you attack the hill, then respond as your body calls for more oxygen...ie too late.
Or do you prepare by increasing breathing before you start and therefor increase your blood oxygen levels in readiness for the attack.
Perhaps someone will tell me its a load of rubbish, but I prepare, get oxygenated...this applies to short hills that you can sprint up, maybe 1/2 mile in length.


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## Citius (21 Apr 2015)

gbb said:


> Are you playing catchup ?
> Do you attack the hill, then respond as your body calls for more oxygen...ie too late.
> Or do you prepare by increasing breathing before you start and therefor increase your blood oxygen levels in readiness for the attack.
> Perhaps someone will tell me its a load of rubbish, but I prepare, get oxygenated...this applies to short hills that you can sprint up, maybe 1/2 mile in length.



Are there any cardio/pulmonary consultants on the forum? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.

Also - you 'sprint' half a mile? Up a hill?


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## double0jedi (21 Apr 2015)

Thanks for all the replies. 
I have no problem breathing out, it just feels like some times I can't pull in enough breath. On my way home today I tried smaller shallow breaths and that seemed to help. I have lost weight but am still 18 stone so I think it is just a fitness thin. 
Will try to pull back a little on thrills and maybe try them a little gentler.


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## gbb (22 Apr 2015)

Citius said:


> Are there any cardio/pulmonary consultants on the forum? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
> 
> Also - you 'sprint' half a mile? Up a hill?


Well I used to...ive been off the bike due to health reasons for a couple years, but...I used to up my average speed on say 50 mile rides by really attacking hills then recover once over the top. It works. 
As said in my post, it may be rubbish (increasing breathing before attqcking)...I accept that, but equally, I know it feels like it helps. Thats all I need to know.
Sprinting is just a word that may have differing meaning to different people. Attack a hill, give it 100%......that is as good as sprinting in my book. Regain breath by easing off once over the top.
1/2 mile ?..yeah I guess that would be a bit much...but anyway, 1/4mile no problem.
If onlyi had that fitness now


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## screenman (22 Apr 2015)

Now I am not sure how tall you are, but that is a lot of weight to get up any hill, so I would say that is a major problem. Keep at it and get the diet sorted and it will get faster, not always easier.

For any 11 stone person not knowing what that feels like put 2 x 5 gallon containers of water on your back and cycle up hill.


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## Bazzer (22 Apr 2015)

gbb said:


> Are you playing catchup ?
> Do you attack the hill, then respond as your body calls for more oxygen...ie too late.
> Or do you prepare by increasing breathing before you
> start and therefor increase your blood oxygen levels in readiness for the attack.
> Perhaps someone will tell me its a load of rubbish, but I prepare, get oxygenated...this applies to short hills that you can sprint up, maybe 1/2 mile in length.



This would have limited benefit and what there is would be very short term. Hyperventilating is not a good thing to do.


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## Sittingduck (22 Apr 2015)

Get checked by a GP but I suspect it's down to the weight. Don't underestimate how much more difficult it is to climb if you're heavy. Try to do all you can to lose some. It will feel like somebody has taken the brakes off, particularly on hills.


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## The Jogger (22 Apr 2015)

gbb said:


> Well I used to...ive been off the bike due to health reasons for a couple years, but...I used to up my average speed on say 50 mile rides by really attacking hills then recover once over the top. It works.
> As said in my post, it may be rubbish (increasing breathing before attqcking)...I accept that, but equally, I know it feels like it helps. Thats all I need to know.
> Sprinting is just a word that may have differing meaning to different people. Attack a hill, give it 100%......that is as good as sprinting in my book. Regain breath by easing off once over the top.
> 1/2 mile ?..yeah I guess that would be a bit much...but anyway, 1/4mile no problem.
> If onlyi had that fitness now




Hope you gws and are back out on your bike.


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## screenman (22 Apr 2015)

Something I have used when coming back to fitness is too see how slow I can go up a hill, not how fast. Also I use a a HRM and tried my best to keep to the Mathetone method.


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## Panter (22 Apr 2015)

gbb said:


> Are you playing catchup ?
> Do you attack the hill, then respond as your body calls for more oxygen...ie too late.
> Or do you prepare by increasing breathing before you start and therefor increase your blood oxygen levels in readiness for the attack.
> Perhaps someone will tell me its a load of rubbish, but I prepare, get oxygenated...this applies to short hills that you can sprint up, maybe 1/2 mile in length.



That's quite uncanny, I tried that very same thing on the way home last night for the very same reason (only a very short, but sharp climb) and it seemed to help.
Going by the replies above, it's not a good idea, but the theory seems good? 
Maybe just a few deep breaths before tackling the climb is the way forward?


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## nickyboy (22 Apr 2015)

As I'm not a pulmonary respiratory consultant this is purely my personal POV....

If I'm going to go up a longish hill I know that if I try my maximum my respiratory rate will be about 60 per minute. Before I get to the hill it is probably about 15 per minute. I seem to get some benefit from increasing my rate up to around 60 as soon as I hit the hill, rather than allowing nature to take its course and my rate to gradually increase from 15 to 60 due to oxygen debt going up the hill


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## nickyboy (22 Apr 2015)

Panter said:


> That's quite uncanny, I tried that very same thing on the way home last night for the very same reason (only a very short, but sharp climb) and it seemed to help.
> Going by the replies above, it's not a good idea, but the theory seems good?
> Maybe just a few deep breaths before tackling the climb is the way forward?



I guess it's a bit like taking some deep breaths before swimming underwater. You seem to be able to increase your blood oxygen somewhat for a short period of time by doing this. Obviously going too far and hyperventilating is a bad thing but I would have thought it quite a difficult thing to achieve when you're riding a bike


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## Panter (22 Apr 2015)

nickyboy said:


> I guess it's a bit like taking some deep breaths before swimming underwater. You seem to be able to increase your blood oxygen somewhat for a short period of time by doing this. Obviously going too far and hyperventilating is a bad thing but I would have thought it quite a difficult thing to achieve when you're riding a bike



It makes sense to me. Our bodies are always lagging behind by responding to demand rather than preempting the effort required. 
I'm sure, as you say, it's pretty limited but it must be a help for a very short "boost."


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## Crackle (22 Apr 2015)

Controlling my breathing running up a hill works for me. Never done it on a bike. I suspect doing it is more of an overall measured approach i.e. a mental preparation, better pacing, better technique and a smoother rhythm rather than any pulmonary/cardio benefits, whatever though, it does work. On a bike I rarely attack hills, especially when in an unfit state, I try to maintain form, speed comes with fitness.


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## gbb (22 Apr 2015)

Not sure anyone is hyperventilating....how did anyone come to that conclusion. Personally i'm talking about increasing frequency and depth of breathing, in a controlled way.
It seems 50/50. Some contributors seem to get a benefit from it doing (doubtless with no scientific backing) , some simply choose to disbelieve it .
I'll stick with increasing my breathing in preparation. It seems to work for me.


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## double_dd (22 Apr 2015)

Breathing before a hill does help - just like freedivers take in multiple breathes before diving. I also breath deep through my nose and forcefully out through my mouth. purposefully emptying everything in there to ensure I can get as much oxygen in on the next breath.

Seems to work for me even if its just in my head!


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## doughnut (22 Apr 2015)

I had something similar when I first went looking for a local 'steep' hill (Strava has it as a cat 4) to try. About halfway up I found that my body was trying to breathe too fast - it seemed like halfway through each exhalation my chest wanted to inhale. I got quite panicky and stopped halfway up for a good 5 minute rest to calm down. After I got home I realised that I'd psyched myself out before I even started riding that day. I'd set myself too many goals that were too hard.

Next time I tried for the hill, my only goal was to collapse in a panic at a higher point than I reached during my first attempt - took it desperately slow and made it all the way to the top with only a mild sweat on. 

For a few months since then, my strategy has been to go into bottom gear on any hill and plod up to the top. Now, I'm comfortable with pretty much any climb within several miles of my house. I know I can get to the top of all of them, so if I am feeling good on a particular day then I try to do them in a higher gear/faster pace, knowing that I can drop down to a gear that I know will get me to the top if I have to. Where I had previously psyched myself out, I am now psyched in.

So my tip is dont underestimate the effect of having the right mindset when you approach the hill - keep calm, take it easy and know that you can get to the top without problems.


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## Rob3rt (22 Apr 2015)

double0jedi said:


> I'm after a little advice. When I come to a short steep hill, no matter how I attack it, be it in a low gear with lots of cycles ( cadence?) or standing on the pedals. When I get to the top I can be seriously out of breath. I don't just mean puffing a bit I mean that sometimes it feels like I can't draw breath fast enough. It can sometimes be quite painful and a bit worrying to be honest.
> *Is this something that will improve with fitness* ( I'm not in shape at all) or am I doing something wrong?
> Is there a breathing technique that would help?



That depends really. If you are having to operate at close to your maximum sustainable power for the duration of the climb just to make it up, then yes this will improve with fitness since your maximum sustainable power for the duration will increase, so for the same power output, you will suffer far less.

If however you are trying to get to the top of the hill as fast as you can and therefore pushing extremely hard, then regardless of how fit you are, if you push yourself to the limit you will be ragged at the top. Why do you think there are dedicated marshals known as catchers at the top of hill climb competitions? They catch you as you cross the line before you fall over!


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## gbb (23 Apr 2015)

Rob3rts post above mentions something quite important, getting up the hill as fast as you can...
While I used to hammer up hills (short steep ones or slighlty longer inclines)..knowing your fitness and limits is very important. Yes I could hammer up hills, ones I knew the length of, ones I knew I could get up...but try too hard on a hill you couldnt get up anyway...you're going to crash physically.


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## busman (23 Apr 2015)

I find when climbing hills its best to go at a pace you are happy with. With steep inclines, as long as my pedals keep turning I know I'll get to the top. And usually the views from the top are worth it.


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## Turdus philomelos (23 Apr 2015)

Learned this in Biology that when your body craves oxygen ie when climbing hill, you breathing becomes quicker and shallower as you know, however doing this your lungs dont expell all the Carbon dioxide so this builds up. You need to take control of your breathing and have severel deep expels of the lungs even though your panting away. It makes a huge difference, I know.


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## DWiggy (24 Apr 2015)

I concentrate on exhaling, big out breathes usually do the trick even when going down the other side.


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## suzeworld (12 May 2015)

Turdus philomelos said:


> Learned this in Biology that when your body craves oxygen ie when climbing hill, you breathing becomes quicker and shallower as you know, however doing this your lungs dont expell all the Carbon dioxide so this builds up. You need to take control of your breathing and have severel deep expels of the lungs even though your panting away. It makes a huge difference, I know.



Yup -- my mate and I are not "that keen" on hills and one day we were slogging up some serious steepitude in Scotland, and we were both breathing really noisily ... when one of us could breath enough to talk we amused ourselves by noticing it sounded like we were in a porno-film ... I now pride myself of porno-breathing as a sign that I am expelling the CO2 - just trying not to care if there happen to be other ppl around to hear it!


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## iamRayRay (12 May 2015)

Porno film breathing... for some reason I can't get this out of my head...

Next time I'm struggling up a hill with no lower gears... YOU'VE TAINTED MY MIND!!!


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## Joshua Plumtree (12 May 2015)

Try cycling out of Hebden Bridge in the Peak District. Heavy breathing, deep moaning, the occasional simpering sigh of despair and a section of cobblestones to send a few tremors through your equipment.


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