# Anyone identify this old tandem... Edit- USWB Claud Butler



## stewie griffin (23 Feb 2019)

Picked it up today at a car boot sale, obviously old but no identifying marks. 







I know it isn't a great image so I'll upload more soon I just wondered if the slightly unusual frame might narrow it down. Thanks.


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## biggs682 (23 Feb 2019)

Looks very much like a SWB or ultra swb Claud Butler with that rear tube 
Nice find as well @stewie griffin


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## stewie griffin (23 Feb 2019)

biggs682 said:


> Looks very much like a SWB or ultra swb Claud Butler with that rear tube
> Nice find as well @stewie griffin



Thank you very much, after looking at images of SWB Claude Butler's it appears to be a 1938-46 model so  to you.

Found a very faint Claude Butler cast into the rear BB lug/shell. It's pretty much complete except for missing the derailleur for the three speed freewheel. It has a three speed (I think) hub with brake and some crazy looking cantilevers!

Fancied a tandem for years and looking forward to me and my lady giving it a go when I get some new tyres on it! The old Michelin's are still holding air despite massive perishing but look like they will explore any moment!


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## Ian H (23 Feb 2019)

Yes, an USWB Claud. Resilion cantilevers. Brampton headset. The bottom brackets will be oversized as well. The Tandem Club will be able to help with spares and repairs.


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## stewie griffin (23 Feb 2019)

Ian H said:


> Yes, an USWB Claud. Resilion cantilevers. Brampton headset. The bottom brackets will be oversized as well. The Tandem Club will be able to help with spares and repairs.



Thank you.


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## wisdom (23 Feb 2019)

It's a nice find.Keep us posted.


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## biggs682 (23 Feb 2019)

stewie griffin said:


> Thank you very much, after looking at images of SWB Claude Butler's it appears to be a 1938-46 model so  to you.
> 
> Found a very faint Claude Butler cast into the rear BB lug/shell. It's pretty much complete except for missing the derailleur for the three speed freewheel. It has a three speed (I think) hub with brake and some crazy looking cantilevers!
> 
> Fancied a tandem for years and looking forward to me and my lady giving it a go when I get some new tyres on it! The old Michelin's are still holding air despite massive perishing but look like they will explore any moment!



Got offered one of these about 5 years ago for £25 , by the time I thought about It , it was sold


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## stewie griffin (25 Feb 2019)

A few more pics for anyone interested.





















Got a couple of 32-597 Kenda tyres coming for it & will put new chains on as the chain wheels are pretty good. Haven't checked the hub gears function yet, I hope it's OK so will at least have three gears, brakes might work with some fetling, missing the bar the cable end goes into on one side rear..........

All in all Im pretty chuffed with it, it's obviously had paint sometime in it's not too distant past & looks like it hasn't seen too much use in it 70-80? years.


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## wisdom (25 Feb 2019)

Those brakes are truly amazing.As is the engineering on it.Now that's a bike that was built to last.


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## stewie griffin (28 Feb 2019)

The frame number on the bottom bracket isn't easy to read, however this one on the stem is!






8123662, after much interwebbing I'm lead to believe the first number is the year so 38 or 48, second number being month so January or maybe 12 for December? Not so much fussed about month but anyone care to shed light on the year?
The head race is a bit indexed but is going to go back together as I've seen worse! 











Worn blocks sorted with a bit of bodging..... Bottom brackets are silky smooth but coming apart for a clean & grease. I'll need to make some new brake cables which I think is going to be very challenging with the spring splitter Resilion set up.... Watch this space.

Apologies for crappy pics.


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## biggs682 (1 Mar 2019)

Thanks for the extra pics and it looks like fun times ahead
There's a good thread on Retrobike re Claud Butler frame numbers if i remember rightly might pay to have a gander 
I wonder what the R stands for on the stem ?


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## stewie griffin (1 Mar 2019)

Thanks @biggs682, I have read the Retrobike thread, that is one of the places that says the first number is the year so having also found catalogues here - http://www.nkilgariff.com/ClaudButler.htm you would think it would be easy to date to 38 or 48 but both years show the same frame in not much detail plus a SWB with different added strengthening tubes...... add to that the fact they were built to order/customisable & it gets difficult, for me anyway....

The Sturmey Archer AB hub has no date stamp & as yet I have found no others.

R is before the same BB stamped frame number are well, maybe R for Racing.....haha


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## stewie griffin (6 Mar 2019)

I found an AA mark on the back of a chainwheel which according to this http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/williamsdating.html makes it 1938, corresponding to the frame number as 1938.


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## mickle (6 Mar 2019)

In about 1985 had a 1952 CB Shortbase with a three speed cyclo Disraeli. It ranks very high on the 'List of Bikes I wish I'd Never Sold'


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## biggs682 (8 Mar 2019)

mickle said:


> In about 1985 had a 1952 CB Shortbase with a three speed cyclo Disraeli. It ranks very high on the 'List of Bikes I wish I'd Never Sold'



Those wish i hadn't sold bikes can be painful ones


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## stewie griffin (9 Mar 2019)

(Edit- I've taken the whole "driver" off the hub complete with the sprockets to get the spoke in so problem below alleviated.
I'd still like to know how the sprockets are held on thought...........)

I need to get the sprockets off to replace a missing spoke in the rear wheel, is it a threaded securing ring? Can someone guide me as to where to buy a tool to fit?


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## stewie griffin (22 Mar 2019)

Some random pics......






AA = 1938


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## biggs682 (27 Mar 2019)

I hope you are enjoying the experience of restoring an aged Tandem
Looks like you are having fun


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## nonowt (27 Mar 2019)

stewie griffin said:


> I need to get the sprockets off to replace a missing spoke in the rear wheel, is it a threaded securing ring? Can someone guide me as to where to buy a tool to fit?


SJS have a good selection of freewheel removers. It doesn't look like the Suntour 2 prong remover would fit but maybe the Regina will? You could take some measurements and ask. Otherwise a decent LBS should have a collection and could be willing to let you borrow one if you take the wheel along.


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## stewie griffin (28 Mar 2019)

biggs682 said:


> I hope you are enjoying the experience of restoring an aged Tandem
> Looks like you are having fun



Yes I am enjoying it, it's just a tidy up as it sadly probably won't see much use.....



nonowt said:


> SJS have a good selection of freewheel removers. It doesn't look like the Suntour 2 prong remover would fit but maybe the Regina will? You could take some measurements and ask. Otherwise a decent LBS should have a collection and could be willing to let you borrow one if you take the wheel along.



Thank you very much @nonowt for trying to help, I now realise my question was misleading & I'm surprised no one put me right.... with it being a Sturmey Archer three speed hub it isn't really a freewheel or a cassette, I still don't know how the sprockets come off but I took off the complete "driver" or "carrier"(don't know he correct term) that the sprockets are mounted on, the Sturmey hubs freeewheel is internal & the driver came off allowing me to get spokes in.


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## stewie griffin (5 Apr 2019)

Surely not bad for an 81 year old frame?


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## stewie griffin (18 Apr 2019)

It's all back together now & ready for a test ride. (Please ignore the crappy rack but something was needed & a friend had this kicking around & it worked, a normal rack is going to be difficult because of the ultra short chain stays).






Anything bright that was no longer bright got a coat of Smoothrite, anything still bright was left alone. Six spokes in the rear wheel, a couple of tyres, a couple of chains, couple of cotter pins, brake blocks & over 200 BBs, first time I've had to use four different sizes on one bike!






The front brake works adequately but the rear was in need of a part & new cables, couple that with the splitter set up I haven't re-fitted it just relying on the hub brake that also is just adequate. Stupidly before taking it to bits I didn't check for three distinct gears, it being a Sturmey AW "Always Works", so I only found out now it's back together it only had second & third, no matter how the toggle chain is pulled first is no longer there...........
So, before I even got it all back together I had an idea, in the back of the shed I have the remains of an early electric assist bike that died, the wheels of said bike are 36 spoke 26" with a four speed Nexus & roller brakes.......






While not perfect the four speeds & decent roller brakes seem like a good idea, I think with a bit of fetling I can make them work without altering anything permanently, the rear width seems about right so that may become phase two if the Missis approves of it after a few gentle rides..... We will see.






The modern 26" ETRTO of 559 mm as opposed to the original 26" X 1 1/4 of 597mm means a 38mm difference in diameter so 19mm lower (with the same height tyres).
Does anyone foresee a problem with this idea?


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## stewie griffin (21 Apr 2019)

Maiden voyage today of only three miles or so went without incident & got the thumbs up from the stoker, in fact she claims to have "really enjoyed it"!


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## stewie griffin (17 Jul 2019)

So to wrap this up here is a photo of it finished, I fitted the 26" wheels with a bit of fetling, it did end up needing the rear triangle spread a few mm's, that was a bit nerve wracking! It's all reversible.
Now a Shimano 4 speed hub with roller brakes, OK they aren't tandem wheels but it's only being used for coffee runs & we're not very heavy between us.

At least it's now being enjoyed. 






And before...


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## biggs682 (20 Jul 2019)

That looks just the job and well done you for saving ti @stewie griffin


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