# Has audax in the UK changed?



## yello (11 Apr 2011)

I did a 300 audax yesterday and was in the minority on steel. Carbon fibre was the name of the game. (I've mentioned this before).

What was also notable was the lack of 'stuff' being carried; travelling minimalist. Seat pack for spare tube, energy bars in shirt pockets. This ride started at 4am and a couple of riders didn't even have lights! Such riders just stayed tucked in the group until daybreak.

I looked decidedly old school; steel framed, dynohub, bar bag containing food and camera - and space for sticking unwanted legwarmers etc etc. Large saddle bag (Otleib) containing couple of tubes, spare cables, chain tool, tyre boot, etc. 

I stayed with a group for around 50km at the start and found the pace just a little too hot for my liking. It seemed more like a sportive. Close riding, watching the wheel ahead. Not really my thing... so I eventually opted to ride my own pace, immediately feeling more relaxed and being able to enjoy the surrounds (I'd rather admire the Loire than a Michelin Krylion!!).

I continued my ride as I wanted, seeing nobody else and finished in just under 15 hours. (I reckon on around 5 hours per 100km for longer rides - including stops - so that's about normal for me.) On my arrival, around two thirds of the cars had gone; people finished and long since gone. 

I was never the fastest in the UK, nor the slowest, but I did feel like I was a part of it. I never felt anachronistic. I don't know if it's just different here in France but I suddenly felt I wasn't part of the audax scene any more... as if it had changed on me. In honesty, it did demoralise me a little. I know you ride your own ride and there are no prizes but I couldn't help alienated a little.

It seemed light and minimal was how you set out, and you went for the best possible time. Is that what's it's like in the UK now? Is it heading that way?


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## asterix (11 Apr 2011)

Last year I did the 100 hour Raid Pyrenean on my steel Roberts with mudguards and a saddlebag (Carradice Pendle). 

Next month I am doing a hilly sportive in the UK. I'll be riding steel (maybe a tourer) with mudguards and a saddlebag (Carradice Nelson). I'm just going to take it steady and finish it, no idea what the others will ride and if I am last, well someone has to be!


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## Fiona N (11 Apr 2011)

Hi Yello
I think you need to come back to Blighty 

My Audax bike is carbon () but built to fit full mudguards and a rack too. As I've only done 200's at the moment, I'm using a biggish saddle pack but the Carradice saddle bag will go on for the first 300km in a couple of weeks. I still use a mapholder and not GPS and have taken lights for the 200's just in case. And I'd say that was fairly typical of the folk I've seen on the rides this year - plenty of steel steeds too - but then in the North (of England) there are still plenty of traditional makers and sellers of custom frames. Perhaps there are now enough sportives to keep the wannabees happy leaving the Audaxes to the older (or more traditional) brigade


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## zigzag (11 Apr 2011)

hi yello, i wouldn't worry about steel or old school thing, this doesn't matter too much. i think it should feel good to be unique and not the part of the herd. it could be the weather that inspired most to go fast - it felt like a perfect summer day yesterday!

with regards to carrying stuff on audaxes - i personally leave my workshop, wardrobe and fridge at home where they belong. just some basic stuff required on a warm and dry day's ride.

the "bulge" time for 300 is 15-18hrs and i'm surprised you were/felt left behind.


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## Dan B (11 Apr 2011)

yello said:


> I continued my ride as I wanted, seeing nobody else and finished in just under 15 hours. (I reckon on around 5 hours per 100km for longer rides - including stops - so that's about normal for me.) On my arrival, around two thirds of the cars had gone; people finished and long since gone.



Wouldn't a traditional audaxer ride to the start (or at least from the nearest train station) instead of driving there? Perhaps there were a lot more people still out on the course on less bling bicycles?


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## yello (11 Apr 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I think you need to come back to Blighty



I do miss the UK audax scene, truth told. I've been musing the differences recently and I do think, though it is subjective clearly, that the UK scene is more embracing and friendlier (or was anyway). It's certainly more active than in my part of the word, that certainly is true to say. It was a 90 minute drive for me yesterday and that was my closest option.

There was another guy on steel yesterday; a Gilles Berthoud bike with a bottom bracket dynamo and rear rack. A 'véritable randonneuse', and a genuine delight to behold. He was merrily spinning away with the quick boys though I did later see him sat outside a café, whether he done his dash or not though, I don't know.

Btw, did you know that I believe we share the same surname. Same spelling too. Or perhaps I'm mistaken... I remember reading something somewhere ages ago and it's stuck since, though I could well have confused it with something along the way. Wouldn't be the first time.


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## yello (11 Apr 2011)

zigzag said:


> i wouldn't worry about steel or old school thing, this doesn't matter too much.



I do know that objectively. Equally I know the time doesn't matter (so long as your in before the cut offs). But knowing it and feeling it are different beasts - this was the first time I've ever really felt like a thing of the past. It never happened to me in the UK (there was safety in numbers!) but then I don't know if the UK scene is changing too - hence my question. 



Dan B said:


> Wouldn't a traditional audaxer ride to the start (or at least from the nearest train station) instead of driving there?



Sadly, in my part of France, there's usually some distance to travel to get to the start thus making the car the most practical option - short of getting a train, sometimes via Paris, the night before and staying in a hotel.

In fairness, there were a lot of local club riders that turned up on their bikes, no car. Perhaps therein is a part of situation that I'm not fully appreciating? That is, perhaps these events are also used by club riders for training rides? Not 'traditional audaxers' at all, as it were! It'll be interesting to see who turns up for the 400 and 600s!

Thinking about it, after I dropped from the quick group nobody came past me (that I saw anyway). I don't know exactly how many people took part so maybe there were more behind me than ahead. Maybe I just had the feeling of 'last person on the course'! I'm perhaps foolishly gauging number of riders from the number of cars in the car park.


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## dodgy (11 Apr 2011)

How many times on forums, when someone has complained about Sportives (pricing, routes, or whatever) and someone always pops up and says "Audax is better, cheaper, friendlier".

I think the Sportive crowd have been listening, at least in France. The secret is out


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## Fab Foodie (11 Apr 2011)

I think change is inevitable, especially as kit gets better (lighter/compact/flexible etc.) there's less need to lay siege to the route when you can move over-it like a Stormtrooper.

I'm a bit old-school and tend (especially in winter) to be never underknowingly equipped, however, most of my riding compatriots get away with minimal kit (and weight) and never seem to fare any the worst for it.
Possibly the thinking is that they'd rather do a 300 in 15 rather than 18 hours by the lightweight approach.
It's also like ly that the majority of newcomers to Audax will have also been Sportive riders and so 200s and 300s will be well within their grasp without resaort to any more specialised kit. 400s and 600s however would really require a more laden and specialist (see: Auld Skool) and bearded approach


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## Philip Whiteman (11 Apr 2011)

I too rode an 300 at the weekend, The Elenith. As I sat in one of the cafes, I hardly noticed any 'beards and sandles'. In fact, I wondered whether the 'cool to be uncool factor' is affecting audaxes. What struck was the increase in faster and younger audaxers, some were dressed in deliberately retro-kit and apparently very fashion conscious. However, like Yello's observation, steel frames were few and far between and carbon or ti bikes more obvious. There was also more riders that looked pre-middle age. 

It may or may not be the PBP affect but in all of the events I have participated in this year, there has been an obvious increase in numbers. My own Snowdrop and Sunrise Express sold out six weeks ahead of the event, the Cheltenham Flyer was busy, Barry's Bristol Ball Bash had hundreds and The Elenith, more popular than usual. 

Talking to my riders at the Snowdrop and Sunrise Express, many of them were new to audaxing. In some instances they were defectors from sportives and in others, completely new to cycling. Yes the 'old reliables' did enter but there was also whole new contingent. 

We may be seeing a rebirth. I'm optimistic for the future of audaxing.


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## bof (11 Apr 2011)

I think PBP is attracting some younger riders to Audaxes this year. Most of them seem very pleasant and agreeably surprised by the welcome from longer term audaxers. It can only be a good thing for the discipline.


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## Ian H (11 Apr 2011)

A lot, if not most, audax randonnees in France are only run in Paris-Brest years, and they're run (mainly) for their own members. So I suspect it might be more to do with that particular club's ethos than a major shift in randonneur style. In any case, 15hrs is quite respectable, so why worry. There'll be plenty riding at your pace during the main event.


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## yello (11 Apr 2011)

Ian H said:


> A lot, if not most, audax randonnees in France are only run in Paris-Brest years, and they're run (mainly) for their own members. So I suspect it might be more to do with that particular club's ethos than a major shift in randonneur style.



Ah, that would explain many things! Certainly the organising club was well represented and, gauging by the (lack of) response to my post on the French randonneur's forum, auld skool audaxers were not in attendance. Audax here is not at all the beast I thought it would be. For instance, my own club is doing a puka 200 audax (road captain etc) next month, its first ever... but only for the club, no outsiders. I can't see the sense in that personally but maybe it's an insurance thing. 



> In any case, 15hrs is quite respectable, so why worry. There'll be plenty riding at your pace during the main event.



Objectively, I know this. I'm not worried, not really. I was just aware of this kind of demoralising alienated feeling I was getting from the experience. I suspect it's mainly because of what I touched on above... it being different here. For example, imagine finishing your 300 (or 200, 400, whatever) to an empty car park. Nobody to welcome you, sign you in, have a natter and a cup of tea and scone with. Nothing. Just the now nearly empty car park. Then you phone the misses and she says 'oh, I thought you'd be finished sooner' (she was basing her timings on me doing 50km in under 2 hours!)... it makes you wonder why you bothered!


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## Tynan (11 Apr 2011)

I've only done two, steel with all the commuter guards and pannier, I was very proud of my chain box route sheet holder strapped on with some spliced togther garden ties

yes, there were a lot of sporty types on racers but they cleared off pretty quick and left the plodders and trundlers alone


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## asterix (12 Apr 2011)

Yello, if you don't mind my saying so your avatar is looking a bit worn out and faded. Maybe a new and brighter one would raise your spirits?

(My avatar is of a Pyrenean mountain dog that looked cheerful even though it was windy, raining and cold and the sheep looked like worn out dish-mops).


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## PpPete (12 Apr 2011)

Last couple of Audaxes I've done: Spring UpperTea 100 and the Dorset Coast 200, there were a LOT of steel bikes. More than I can remember seeing last year. Many of them newish looking examples from the independent frame builders.


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## Aperitif (12 Apr 2011)

asterix said:


> Yello, if you don't mind my saying so your avatar is looking a bit worn out and faded. Maybe a new and brighter one would raise your spirits?
> 
> (My avatar is of a Pyrenean mountain dog that looked cheerful even though it was windy, raining and cold and the sheep looked like worn out dish-mops).



Ha ha! If you're not demoralised by the Audax scene, Andrew, your crappy avatar will offer you no solace! 

Only joking - this is a nice thread and interesting read. Well done - I like the bit about wanting 'to see the Loire over Krylion'


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## Banjo (12 Apr 2011)

Demoralized? you should be pleased that audaxing is growing and younger people are taking part. 

I have only done 3 audaxes all recently seemed about 50/50 traditional looking audax bikes to more modern road bikes on the ones I did.Except the very hilly Rhonnda Traverse where modern bikes were much more popular.

I think with the growing popularity of cycling recently a lot of people (like me) went out and bought bikes without too much idea of what they intended doing with them. I just intended commuting and a bit of solitary fitness riding.My lightweight aluminium Road racer is perfectly adequate for me for now so I wouldnt want/cant afford to buy another bike just for audaxing.

As people take up Sportive riding/ touring/ audaxing I guess there second bike purchase will be more specific to the type of riding they have drifted into.


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## yello (12 Apr 2011)

Banjo said:


> Demoralized? you should be pleased that audaxing is growing and younger people are taking part.



"Should" I? I'll feel as I do if you don't mind! 

Nah, it's nothing to do with age or popularity. If more/younger riders leads to greater selection of rides then I'll be all for it. So lets not turn this into a beards v carbon debate... because I have neither!!

My vague feelings of demoralisation/alienation came, I suspect, from the difference between the scene here and in the UK. As it happens, I suspect the scene isn't growing in France (not like in the UK anyway) and I suspect the age of riders isn't changing. I reckon Ian H nailed when he mentioned the difference in approach, and it being like a club ride. I'm thinking of doing my 400 with another organiser (further to travel but not too much more) just to see if that's different.

Re my avatar, blame Robbie! Next time he pops a wheelie at the end of a mountain stage, he ought make sure it's not foggy!


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## Banjo (12 Apr 2011)

""Should" I? I'll feel as I do if you don't mind! "

Yeah sorry I worded that badly but I think you got my idea.


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## yello (12 Apr 2011)

Banjo said:


> Yeah sorry I worded that badly but I think you got my idea.



I did indeed, so no worries


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## trio25 (12 Apr 2011)

I ride a carbon bike when I ride Audaxes, it's what I got before I even heard of Audax. But I see plently of steel bikes around. Over here there seems room for everyone. I did a recent 150km on my fixie (so alu) I stayed with the fast group for the first hour or so before dropping off and riding on my own. I knew there were others behind me though I never saw them on the ride as they were at the start.

Maybe it was just that particular Audax?


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## vorsprung (12 Apr 2011)

Philip Whiteman said:


> I too rode an 300 at the weekend, The Elenith. As I sat in one of the cafes, I hardly noticed any 'beards and sandles'.


You are fast, you were at Rhayder at the same time as me. I finished in a fast time for the Elenith. Most of the beardy weirdies on their recumbents and Thorns with bizarre map holders are slow(er)



> In fact, I wondered whether the 'cool to be uncool factor' is affecting audaxes. What struck was the increase in faster and younger audaxers, some were dressed in deliberately retro-kit and apparently very fashion conscious. However, like Yello's observation, steel frames were few and far between and carbon or ti bikes more obvious. There was also more riders that looked pre-middle age.


There are more people doing road cycling over the past few years. So of them a tiny minority will be now new audax riders. I welcome the new freaks...



> It may or may not be the PBP affect but in all of the events I have participated in this year, there has been an obvious increase in numbers. My own Snowdrop and Sunrise Express sold out six weeks ahead of the event, the Cheltenham Flyer was busy, Barry's Bristol Ball Bash had hundreds and The Elenith, more popular than usual.


It is the PBP effect. New people enter stuff because they want to do the PBP. Old people crawl out of the woodwork because they want to do the PBP again



> Talking to my riders at the Snowdrop and Sunrise Express, many of them were new to audaxing. In some instances they were defectors from sportives and in others, completely new to cycling. Yes the 'old reliables' did enter but there was also whole new contingent.


You are very good at promoting your rides 



> We may be seeing a rebirth. I'm optimistic for the future of audaxing.


It's just surfin' the wave of the current cycling boom


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## Klaus (12 Apr 2011)

I have just joined AUDAX and once I have a bit more time hope to take part in some of the 100s in the south east.


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## PpPete (12 Apr 2011)

Klaus said:


> I have just joined AUDAX and once I have a bit more time hope to take part in some of the 100s in the south east.



South East....is Dave Hudson territory (a.k.a. El Supremo)	An old school AUK organiser of the very best sort, worth doing one of his rides just for the incredible roadside catering (all included in the entry fee).	Makes all new riders very welcome too. I did one of his as my first last year and would heartily recommend them.


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## Mr Bunbury (12 Apr 2011)

Well I'm sorry for being in my twenties! I'm afraid that I don't have a crusty 1960s tourer to ride because I wasn't around in the 1960s to buy one. Should I crawl back under my rock, do a few overpriced sportives and leave Audax to the beardy weirdies?


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## yello (12 Apr 2011)

Oh do grow up, you're just being silly now!


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## fossyant (12 Apr 2011)

It will be that carbon bikes are dead cheap to get now. Steel bikes are usually well loved bits of kit or new big buck builds.

Don't worry about it.

I ride a couple of sportives a year on my old 'iron',  it always gets serious attention, 'oh old skool' - erm yes it's my best bike. Thanks


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## yello (12 Apr 2011)

Can I just reiterate that this thread was not meant to be an old v new / steel v carbon / beards v spots cliché. I have no problem with any of that (I use clearasil) so please people, let's not turn it that way. I can assure you that any references I have made to such things have strictly been knowing, tongue-in-check irony.

My 'issue', such that it was, is to do with the differences between a particular audax and what I was familiar with in the UK. I hope that's clear.


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## Ian H (12 Apr 2011)

yello said:


> ...For instance, my own club is doing a puka 200 audax (road captain etc) next month, its first ever... but only for the club, no outsiders. I can't see the sense in that personally but maybe it's an insurance thing.



There are two Paris-Brest-Paris's this year, the ACP randonneur version, and the UAF audax version. They may have been practising for the latter - and you have to be in a team to take part.


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## asterix (13 Apr 2011)

Mr Bunbury said:


> Well I'm sorry for being in my twenties! *I'm afraid that I don't have a crusty 1960s tourer to ride because I wasn't around in the 1960s to buy one. * Should I crawl back under my rock, do a few overpriced sportives and leave Audax to the beardy weirdies?



Have you tried ebay?


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## yello (13 Apr 2011)

Ian H said:


> There are two Paris-Brest-Paris's this year, the ACP randonneur version, and the UAF audax version. They may have been practising for the latter - and you have to be in a team to take part.



I didn't realise that you took part in teams. I foolishly thought it was just one massive audax! Though thinking about the logistics of that now, that'd be mayhem!!

In the case of my club though; no, they're not training for audax PBP - believe me! In fact, when we did the reccy a couple of weeks back, myself and our club captain where the only ones ever to have ridden 200km before. Our club is very socially orientated; more of a Sunday pootlers outing than serious randonneurs... and I like it that way, even if it does mean I'm on me tod for brevets etc. To most off them, anything more than 4 hours on a bike is complete lunacy! And I can get my head around that!!


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## Philip Whiteman (13 Apr 2011)

Mr Bunbury said:


> Well I'm sorry for being in my twenties! I'm afraid that I don't have a crusty 1960s tourer to ride because I wasn't around in the 1960s to buy one. Should I crawl back under my rock, do a few overpriced sportives and leave Audax to the beardy weirdies?




It's best just to ignore the carbon fascism and grumpy old men who want audax to stay in the 1970s. If they want to see audax die off then they are going the best way about it. I ride events almost exclusively in the South Midlands and Mid-Wales, nearly all include an ecclectic mix of riders, most of whom are welcoming irrelevant of age, colour or make of bicycle and that is the way it should be! Nearly all are well patronised and well organised and geared towards encouraging riders of all capabilities. 

The most enlightning audax I participated in this year was LVIS's Barry's Bristol Ball Bash. Lots of cyclists of all capabilities, riding on carbon, ti, steel, aluminium; participants were all ages, racers, traditional audaxers, plodders and triathletes. It was an all inclusive event of over 400 participants. The best thing about the event was its friendly, fun and inclusive atmosphere. They set a high bench mark and one that my own club's events would struggle to match. 

So keep up with audaxes - bring along your friends and ignore the old grumps. Others should stop condemning younger riders for packing in good times on long distance endurance events, not condemn them but honour their athleticism. Audaxing should be for the next and current generation and not those who want to keep it in the past. Times move on and audax needs to move with it - and I believe that it is. 







..... I own a big spoon by the way  .


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## yello (13 Apr 2011)

Philip Whiteman said:


> I own a big spoon by the way  .



Indeed you do. And when I expressly stated that I had no wish for this to derail into an argument about something nobody has said, I'm baffled as to WHY you reached for that spoon.


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## asterix (13 Apr 2011)

Well, I am doing a sportive in May. 

As previously stated I'll be riding a steel bike with 'guards and a saddle bag. I haven't decided about the beard yet - I think there's still time.

I may use the 2009 steel bike or the '87 vintage. The newer bike has more reliable gears (t'other needs new chainset) but is not quite as comfortable as the older.

When it comes to mounts, I hardly know my trek from my cervelo  

With a bit of luck I may get in amongst the medallists but my main concern is riding in bunches of people who might be a bit over competitive - I tend to be a lone rider - but as it is very hilly I guess the bunches won't last!

Hope it's nice and sunny..


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## GrasB (13 Apr 2011)

I did a few 100km audaxs last year, all on my road bike... sure it happens to be a bit carbon blingish but that's because the road bike is the most appropriate bike for this kind of event - the frame is compliant & it has 'guards, both the boardman & fixie don't make the grade for various reasons. My impression on the 100km audaxs was that the more race orientated riders were just there for a longish fastish ride. Those going for the 200km audaxs looked to be more of the fast touring type of rider, far more steel & titanium seen on the 200km starting line too.


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## Mr Bunbury (13 Apr 2011)

yello said:


> Indeed you do. And when I expressly stated that I had no wish for this to derail into an argument about something nobody has said, I'm baffled as to WHY you reached for that spoon.


You say that you feel "demoralised" because a ride had some younger riders riding modern bikes, who didn't want to carry more stuff than necessary and who weren't afraid to ride in an efficient formation like any good club run. That describes me to a tee, so how do you think it looks from here? I just want to get out and enjoy riding my bike, I can do without being told that my presence demoralises people because I'm not carrying superfluous kit or sporting a beard.


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## yello (13 Apr 2011)

Mr Bunbury said:


> You say that you feel "demoralised" because a ride had some younger riders riding modern bikes



I didn't say I was demoralised "because" of that. I mentioned that they were there, which they were, and they travelled light and fast, which they did. It's a fact but not the cause of my feelings. If you read further you'll have seen that I suggested the cause of my feeling down was probably due to the nature of the organisation; partly having an expectation built from my experiences of UK audax that wasn't met. And particularly at finishing to a near empty car park with no organiser there to check you in, nor other riders to have a chat with. It made me feel a bit empty. Can you see that?

My intention was not to make you nor any other newcomer to audax feel unwelcome. I'm sorry if that's the way it came across but, believe me, I have no problem at all with this type of rider (young or old). On the contrary, it made me think about my own approach and wonder if lighter/faster might be more, or at least as, rewarding. I can certainly see that for some (people like yourself presumably) it is exactly that.


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## Fiona N (13 Apr 2011)

I'm happy to say that my sister, an ironman triathlete who's taken a shine to the idea of qualifying for PBP, had a very happy experience on her first Audax - a 200km down the marshes way in Kent. 

She turned up on an oldish Al Cannondale road bike (as opposed to the bling-y Specialized carbon TT bike - she's not daft ) and was welcomed into the fold, finding a sociable companion to ride with (she was recovering from tonsilitis so not wanting a 200km group blast) who showed her the ropes at the controls and helped with the instructions sheet. 

She's now off to buy a Polaris map holder and mudguards  - a real convert  so someone's doing something right


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## YahudaMoon (14 Apr 2011)

[sub]Hi yello. not like that yet though it has changed. Theres a mix really though its still mainly old school style. Theres a little carbon bling going on and its all good. Im full on old scool with rack n pannier and Im not that old 40 ? maybe Iam ? Thats the way I like it. Id only do carbon bling on a hot hot day 200km any longer or colder the full on audax bike comes out.

Times are changing in France then ! wow !

Don't let it put ya down. Some old timers I ve met over the years have inspired me into more audax and there like my hereos[/sub]


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