# Sub-Standard Cycle Lanes - Letter to Bolton Council



## MrHappyCyclist (28 Aug 2011)

The most frequent comment I see on my YouTube channel is along the lines of "what a crap cycle lane/ death strip" or something like that, so I've just sent this email to the Highways Dept at Bolton Council.



> Hello,
> 
> As a cyclist living in Bolton and working in Salford, I typically cover more than 100 miles each week cycling to work and back.
> 
> ...


I'll post here again if anything ever happens about it.


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## 400bhp (2 Sep 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> The most frequent comment I see on my YouTube channel is along the lines of "what a crap cycle lane/ death strip" or something like that, so I've just sent this email to the Highways Dept at Bolton Council.
> 
> 
> I'll post here again if anything ever happens about it.



That's a well structured letter, by far the best example I have seen here.  Only problem is you don't state you commute oby bicycle.

Why not write to the local MP, or is that the next step?


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## Angelfishsolo (2 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> That's a well structured letter, by far the best example I have seen here.  Only problem is you don't state you commute oby bicycle.
> 
> Why not write to the local MP, or is that the next step?





> As a cyclist living in Bolton and working in Salford, I typically cover more than 100 miles each week _*cycling to work and back*_.



Er, he does.


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## MrHappyCyclist (2 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> Why not write to the local MP, or is that the next step?



Councillors and the Mayor next, then the MP.

To be honest, I don't think the MP will be much help. I've written to him several times. He just forwards them to the DfT, gets a fob-off reply, and then forwards that to me. In this case, the DfT will just say that it's the Local Authority's responsibility.


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## MrHappyCyclist (3 Sep 2011)

I got a very prompt, if unsatisfactory, reply from the Highways Department, which follows:



> Thank you for your e-mail regarding cycle lanes in the borough.
> It is current Bolton Council policy that if on-carriageway cycle lanes are provided they should be a minimum of 1.5m wide or 2.0m wide for busy roads or where the speed limit is 40mph. Short lengths of lane 1.2m wide can be used to maintain continuity of cycle lanes for example on the approach to the advanced cycle box at a traffic signal junction stop line. This policy is in accordance with most good practise guidance including the Department for Transport's Local Transport Note 2/08, 'Cycle Infrastructure Design'. Where these widths cannot be achieved, cycle lanes are not installed.
> 
> The cycle lanes and traffic calming features on Manchester Road between Bolton and Farnworth and A666 Bolton Rd / Manchester Rd between Farnworth and Kearsley were installed around 1999 - 2000, before the latest guidelines were produced. However the majority of the cycle lanes along these lengths of road are at least 1.5m wide and would meet the current guidelines. Where the lanes are substandard they are reviewed when maintenance work, such as resurfacing, is carried out or other schemes are implemented and either rectified or removed if necessary. I can give you no indication of a timetable for such works because as you may be aware the funding available for such schemes has been either greatly reduced or suspended completely.
> ...


I have put together a video for the chap at the Highways Department to view, but I thought I might seek comments before sending it.
[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_qWIFB7cPw[/media]

I should mention that a lot of these videos are old ones, and I often just don't use the cycle lanes now in many of the cases, although there are still some that I do.


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## Ian 74 (3 Sep 2011)

It looks like a bit of a nightmare. Parked cars in the cycle lanes, people cutting you up, cars at junctions with their front ends in the on flowing cycle lane. Buses driving too close parked cars right next to your lane, as you say any moment a car door could open close lining you off your bike. Commuting seems like urban war.

I am originally from Bolton and I take my hat off to you and hope that you get some kind of satisfactory response, the video eloquently highlights your concerns. Is that St.Peters Way starring in some of the vid? Cycle lanes are more of a bother than they are worth. If I have a choice I don't use them, in Carlisle as most of them are on the pavement or would involve me stopping at every junction to make sure that I don't get cut up and knocked off my bike. 

The sprawling urban conurbation is not a friend of the commuting cyclist. I await the councils reply with interest.


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## Parrot of Doom (8 Sep 2011)

Ah Bolton council. The one that replaced much of the Bolton arm of the Manchester Bolton & Bury Canal with a dual carriageway. Who demolished a nearly 200-year-old stone aqueduct with explosives, because it might have been dangerous (it wasn't). The one that allows public rights of way to fall into disrepair, and who refuses to fix them (two river crossings near Nob End, just southeast of Moses Gate County Park, both blocked for years, both rather cheap to fix). The one that has excellent potential public footpaths (the old Burnden Viaduct), but chooses to do nothing with them. Not to mention the general state of the roads - anyone who's gone through Farnworth can be considered lucky to still be alive. Smithills Dean Road is horrifc and entirely unsafe to cycle on, let alone take your vehicle's suspension along.

But so long as the town centre has some nice pavements, everything is ok.


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## ohnovino (8 Sep 2011)

That's a brilliant video. I think you've done an excellent job of highlighting the problems in a very calm, considered and eloquent manner.


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## growingvegetables (8 Sep 2011)

> That's a brilliant video. I think you've done an excellent job of highlighting the problems in a very calm, considered and eloquent manner.



+1

I was thinking of doing something similar for one of my commuting routes (aye - but that's all changed; long story, don't ask). Like you, lots of bits of footage accumulated. Adding a couple of things though. It's fairly obvious council roads engineers (and First Bus drivers) don't understand the concept of measurement, lack the ability to read specifications, and quite probably think the bike line is perfectly adequate for the 1-2 inch width of a bike tyre! [Cynical? Me? Naaaaaaaaah!]

Some quiet Sunday afternoon (as if!), 


for the door-zone cycle lanes, I was going to borrow my son and his 3-door car; and set up a short sequence showing how much of his door intrudes into the cycle lane; and film it.
I was thinking about wrapping something really bright orange/yellow round my handle-bars, standing the bike upside down in some of the narrowest cycle lanes, and taking a short film/couple of still photos - to make the lack of space and clearance stand out graphically? Me? I'd also cheat and borrow my other son's mountain bike - his handle bars are a good 2-3 inches wider than my 24 inches 
Just ideas to make the problems stand out graphically? Feel free to borrow, beg, steal, or otherwise purloin


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Sep 2011)

I sent this response to the Highways Dept. last Thursday.



> Thank you for your speedy response to my message; that is appreciated.
> 
> I have to say, however, that I was rather disappointed with your response. It contains a number of statements that I believe are untrue (e.g. "the majority of the cycle lanes along these lengths of road are at least 1.5m wide and would meet the current guidelines"). It also contains statements that suggest that you do not see safety of road users in practice as the concern of your department (e.g. "... some vehicles do encroach onto the cycle lane. Although it is quite legal for a vehicle to enter an advisory cycle lane if it is safe to do so, we have added green road marking paint ...).
> 
> ...




I may have come on a bit strong here, but I do think their earlier response was just not acceptable.


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## Alun (12 Sep 2011)

Good luck with that Mr HC, have you seen this website?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/


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## snorri (12 Sep 2011)

Simply implementing parking/waiting restrictions is not the answer as on the majority of lengths of road where this occurs many of the vehicles belong to residents of adjacent houses and do not have any alternative parking provision.




This is the bit that annoys me, convenience apparently takes priority over safety.


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## Richard Mann (13 Sep 2011)

Alun said:


> Good luck with that Mr HC, have you seen this website?
> 
> http://homepage.ntlw...y-of-the-month/



This one is really silly. If you follow the location link, and have a look at it in Google, it's quite clear it's a central turn lane for a side road that's out of shot. A side road that forms a quiet link to the centre of the village.


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Sep 2011)

Richard Mann said:


> This one is really silly. If you follow the location link, and have a look at it in Google, it's quite clear it's a central turn lane for a side road that's out of shot. A side road that forms a quiet link to the centre of the village.


Yes, a bit misleading that. It damages the credibility of the site when there is even one misleading example like that; a shame.


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## Red Light (13 Sep 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Yes, a bit misleading that. It damages the credibility of the site when there is even one misleading example like that; a shame.



But it invites the interpretation it got by virtue of the white lines going up either side of the central island. If they had stopped short and curved the left one round it would make it obvious what it is but as it is it looks like someone's dumped an island on the cycle right turn for the t-junction.

But I don't think it damages the credibility - CFoM has always had a slightly tongue-in-cheek approach and it is humorous.


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## snibgo (13 Sep 2011)

That was my photo.

In hindsight, looking at the junction from the higher streetview viewpoint (http://maps.google.c...cbp=12,270,,0,0 ), I agree the intention was probably to provide a turning point for cyclists coming from Long Acre East into Fosters Lane.

On the ground, it didn't seem to be for that purpose. It seemed to be for cyclists turning into Long Acre. At the time, it didn't occur to me it might be for anything else.


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Sep 2011)

Red Light said:


> But I don't think it damages the credibility - CFoM has always had a slightly tongue-in-cheek approach and it is humorous.


Don't get me wrong - I think the site is great - but the writing with the picture actually implies that the lane is for turning right onto the main road, so I think that goes a bit far.

You're right about how they could improve it, though. They also could have put little give way markings, or at least a length of broken line at the end of the right hand solid white line.


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## smokeysmoo (13 Sep 2011)

I emailed Bolton MBC outlining the need for a cycle lane along Tonge Moor Road past Dave's Aquarium, HERE

Evening rush hour along this stretch is a nightmare with knob-heads hogging the kerb around the bend!

Anyway, I got a reply 6 months later to say they were looking at various options. There is still no cycle lane provision there over 12 months later


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## BluesDave (23 Sep 2011)

I lived in Little Lever from 2004-2007 (sometimes I wish I still did) and I didn't even notice any cycle lanes betwixt Farnworth and Bolton which just goes to show how well signposted, maintained and indicated they are doesn't it.
Admittedly my bike was off the road for half of that time.

Excellent letter by the way.

As for this quote. . "Ah Bolton council. The one that replaced much of the Bolton arm of the Manchester Bolton & Bury Canal with a dual carriageway. Who demolished a nearly 200-year-old stone aqueduct with explosives, because it might have been dangerous (it wasn't). The one that allows public rights of way to fall into disrepair, and who refuses to fix them (two river crossings near Nob End, just southeast of Moses Gate County Park, both blocked for years, both rather cheap to fix). The one that has excellent potential public footpaths (the old Burnden Viaduct), but chooses to do nothing with them. Not to mention the general state of the roads - anyone who's gone through Farnworth can be considered lucky to still be alive. Smithills Dean Road is horrifc and entirely unsafe to cycle on, let alone take your vehicle's suspension along.

But so long as the town centre has some nice pavements, everything is ok."

Could you please post some pictures of the areas you are talking about. I remember Moses Gate Park and Nob End very fondly having many lovely walks through there when the children were babies but can't place the bridges.
As for that section of canal the banks collapsed into it in 1935 in the park just past the old lock workings which still seem to be there and it was then deemed to expensive to repair so it was closed. 
There is a restoration society trying to raise the money to reopen it but as so much of this has been lost to land I fear it will cost in excess of 20 the million they are trying to raise to do the whole lot as it was. Particularly getting towards the Ringley end of the park.
As for the 200 year old Aquaduct, some pictures of that as well please. That is just scandalous!


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## MrHappyCyclist (23 Sep 2011)

DavidDecorator said:


> Could you please post some pictures of the areas you are talking about.



These links might be useful:

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/mbb/
http://www.mbbcs.org.uk/canal/index.htm
http://www.mbbcanal.demon.co.uk/


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## MrHappyCyclist (23 Sep 2011)

I have received the following reply from the Engineering Dept:



> Thanks for the video. Although we are prevented from accessing YouTube at the council I have been able to view it at home and it provides some useful information on the use of cycle lanes etc.
> 
> Rather than get into a debate on whether or not the majority of the cycle lanes on your route to and from work comply with the latest Dft guidance and indeed Bolton Council's own current policy, it is perhaps more important that we agree that there are lengths which do not. As I have stated we do review these when we are carrying out various highway schemes but as you will no doubt be aware there have been massive public sector spending cuts which have greatly reduced spending on such schemes and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...



I don't think I can get any further with this at this level. I'm not sure whether they have really got the message or not, as the previous reply indicated some lack of understanding of the problems. However, to continue arguing would probably be counter-productive now.


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## the snail (26 Sep 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> I don't think I can get any further with this at this level. I'm not sure whether they have really got the message or not, as the previous reply indicated some lack of understanding of the problems. However, to continue arguing would probably be counter-productive now.



You're probably right, but you made your point well. I think I should follow your example and write to the council about the useless/dangerous 'facilities' we have, after all there's nothing gained by cussing and grumbling to yourself


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## davefb (26 Sep 2011)

DavidDecorator said:


> Could you please post some pictures of the areas you are talking about. I remember Moses Gate Park and Nob End very fondly having many lovely walks through there when the children were babies but can't place the bridges.
> As for that section of canal the banks collapsed into it in 1935 in the park just past the old lock workings which still seem to be there and it was then deemed to expensive to repair so it was closed.
> There is a restoration society trying to raise the money to reopen it but as so much of this has been lost to land I fear it will cost in excess of 20 the million they are trying to raise to do the whole lot as it was. Particularly getting towards the Ringley end of the park.
> As for the 200 year old Aquaduct, some pictures of that as well please. That is just scandalous!




I do think it's a valid point that frankly there was a reason the canals were destroyed, thats because they were empty of water and nobody used them. It wasn't till years later that people started to clear all the debris for recreational purposes.


Having said that, there really could be a 'sorting out' of the canalside route which still exists and is kinda there almost all the way to manchester... But at the moment, its such a mix of terrain that it's just good for a 'wander'.. Maybe it's because its split between different councils ?

Oh and , good letters mrhappycyclist


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## MrHappyCyclist (24 Oct 2011)

Perhaps it's some kind of wind-up?

So soon after writing this (see earlier posts):



Bolton Council Highways Dept. said:


> The cycle lanes and traffic calming features on Manchester Road between Bolton and Farnworth and A666 Bolton Rd / Manchester Rd between Farnworth and Kearsley were installed around 1999 - 2000, before the latest guidelines were produced. However the majority of the cycle lanes along these lengths of road are at least 1.5m wide and would meet the current guidelines. Where the lanes are substandard they are reviewed when maintenance work, such as resurfacing, is carried out or other schemes are implemented and either rectified or removed if necessary.


the council have just repainted this cycle lane on Manchester Road between Bolton and Farnworth:





Unbelievable


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## 400bhp (24 Oct 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> I emailed Bolton MBC outlining the need for a cycle lane along Tonge Moor Road past Dave's Aquarium, HERE
> 
> Evening rush hour along this stretch is a nightmare with knob-heads hogging the kerb around the bend!
> 
> Anyway, I got a reply 6 months later to say they were looking at various options. There is still no cycle lane provision there over 12 months later



I'll often come down that way when going over the top of Rivvy/Turton on saturday. It's a crap road.

BTW you are from around Lymm aren't you? I noticed your bike is a CAAD X. I remember speaking to someone about a year ago at the Green Dragon early on a saturday morning who had just purchased a CAAD X. Was it you?


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## dellzeqq (25 Oct 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Perhaps it's some kind of wind-up?
> 
> So soon after writing this (see earlier posts):
> 
> ...


very disappointing. I know that we don't see eye to eye on cycle lanes, but this is clearly the worst of all possible worlds.


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## MrHappyCyclist (26 Oct 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> very disappointing. I know that we don't see eye to eye on cycle lanes, but this is clearly the worst of all possible worlds.



Au contraire, I think we agree quite a lot on cycle lanes. I think practically all cycle lanes in the urban setting are damaging and should be removed.

It's just that if they insist on putting the damn things in, then they should at least meet the guidelines.

Where we may possibly differ is that I do think that there are some places outside of towns where segregation is appropriate, such as high speed major trunk roads and bypasses.


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## MrHappyCyclist (19 Feb 2012)

Well, it took a while to get round to it, but I finally did write to my councillors:


> _Hello,_​_I am writing to you as my representatives on Bolton Council, regarding the environment that exists within the Bolton area for people using bicycles as a means of transport, which is really rather poor. I feel that Greater Manchester in general is one of the worst places in the country to use a bicycle, and Bolton is at least as bad as any area within Greater Manchester._​_In August last year, I wrote to the local Highways Department regarding concerns that I have about many of the cycle lanes that are installed and maintained in the Bolton area. Far from helping cyclists, I believe many of these bring increased danger due to their inadequate design. Unfortunately, whilst the respondent was very polite and clearly tried to be helpful, I do not think the response itself was satisfactory. You may find copies of the correspondence on this, as well as a video that I made to illustrate some of my points, in this discussion on the CycleChat forum:_​_http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/sub-standard-cycle-lanes-letter-to-bolton-council.84813/_​_Of course, many of the problems we face are directly caused by the attitudes of drivers and often by their ignorance of recommended cycling and driving practices and how to share the road properly. However, these are often exacerbated by poor highway design, which often (incorrectly) assumes that roads are solely provided for motor traffic and anything else must fit around that._​_I am prompted to write at this time because of the Safe Cycling/Cities Fit For Cycling campaign that is currently being led by The Times newspaper, of which you may be aware. In connection with that, several Town and City Councils have pledged to make significant efforts to improve the situation. For example, Edinburgh has pledged to allocate 5% of its highways budget in future to cycling related work._​_I would be keen to hear what Bolton Council’s position is in relation to this campaign, and look forward to hearing about that. You may also be aware that there is to be a debate in the Commons about these issues on 23rd February 2012. However, it is clearly a matter that needs to be addressed collaboratively at both the National and Local levels, so I think it would be very good if there were to be a statement from Bolton prior to that debate._​_Best wishes,_​


Actually, it was the #cyclesafe campaign that prompted me.
I'll post the reply when (if) I get it.


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## smokeysmoo (19 Feb 2012)

Good luck with that MHC. I emailed BMC a while ago suggesting they install a cycle lane in one spot before an accident prompts them to do so, I got a reply SIX months later saying they had no plans for any further cycle lanes.
Then I emailed them a few weeks ago suggesting a single 'Merge in Turn' sign where two traffic lanes merge, this causes some drivers to allow themselves to get pushed right upto the kerb, and subsequently creates a danger for cyclists. I got an instant reply saying they had no money. Perhaps if they weren't paying all the claims for damage to cars from poorly maintained roads they might have some funds to direct towards pro-active safety measures!


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## 400bhp (20 Feb 2012)

Has anyone seen the cycle lane on the A675 between Belmont and Bolton? WTF When this first appeared (6 months ago?) I thought it hadn't been finished as it's loose gravel. 6 months later and no change so I believe they are going to leave it like that.


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## growingvegetables (20 Feb 2012)

Is it like a cycle route the council had built near me - contractor laid the asphalt, and topped with a layer of chips at least an inch thick?

Contractor was supposed to come back after the chips had been bedded in by users (bikes? Honestly!) and remove the excess. Contractor "forgot" this was part of the contract.


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## dellzeqq (20 Feb 2012)

400bhp said:


> Has anyone seen the cycle lane on the A675 between Belmont and Bolton? WTF When this first appeared (6 months ago?) I thought it hadn't been finished as it's loose gravel. 6 months later and no change so I believe they are going to leave it like that.


have you called the council? I (and, I'm sure, many others) rang up and complained about some speed humps in Battersea Park, and they clawed the money back from the Contractor.


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## 400bhp (20 Feb 2012)

No, this thread just reminded me about it. Perhaps mrHappy can bung me a contact email?


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## MrHappyCyclist (20 Feb 2012)

400bhp said:


> No, this thread just reminded me about it. Perhaps mrHappy can bung me a contact email?


I'll send it tomorrow. (Don't have my laptop with me now.)


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## Banjo (27 Feb 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> have you called the council? I (and, I'm sure, many others) rang up and complained about some speed humps in Battersea Park, and they clawed the money back from the Contractor.


 
I suspect this is what may have happened in my recent success at getting a cycle lane improved. If the council has contracted an outside company to install something to a certain standard they can quite rightly hold back payment until its put right.

I think the lesson is the minute you see something wrong being installed get straight on to the Highways department.While its still not paid for the council has the upperhand. Getting them(the contractors)back later once the job is signed off and paid for would be a whole different ball game.


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## sheddy (9 Mar 2012)

Can anyone give me any links as to how cycle lanes should end and at what distance before a large roundabout ?
Our Council are proposing to bring them right up to the roundabout, which would put you in the gutter and bring you into conflict with vehicles when you want to turn right.


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## growingvegetables (9 Mar 2012)

this? - not very helpful; parts 9.8.2 and 9.8.4


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## sheddy (9 Mar 2012)

Thanks, I've seen that doc and it is a bit poor.
BTW can anyone tell me the road name or provide a streetview link to that York roundabout with the cycle lanes that often gets discusssed


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## Richard Mann (9 Mar 2012)

sheddy said:


> Thanks, I've seen that doc and it is a bit poor.
> BTW can anyone tell me the road name or provide a streetview link to that York roundabout with the cycle lanes that often gets discusssed


 
Don't think its all that good myself, but here you are: http://g.co/maps/4u9cv

Best advice is a roundabout 25-40m inscribed diameter (ideally 28m), perpendicular narrow approaches. The Swiss say terminate the cycle lane before the roundabout, but if there are queues then you're best off continuing the cycle lane very narrowly to the roundabout.


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## Amanda P (9 Mar 2012)

Richard's link is the right one - the 'magic roundabout'. Opinion is deeply divided on whether it's any good; I don't think so. One good feature is nothing to do with the gutter bike lanes: some of the car lanes are physically divided so that if you're going left, you must take the left lane. Once in the left lane, you must turn left. this means that signals aren't really necessary, and your'e not guessing which way a car's going to go.

Most York cyclists ignore the bike lanes there. The lanes may remind drivers that there might be cyclists about though (not that they should need reminding).


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## dand_uk (9 Mar 2012)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Perhaps it's some kind of wind-up?
> 
> So soon after writing this (see earlier posts):
> 
> ...


Things like this make my blood boil! Look how wide the road is!!!!!


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## MrHappyCyclist (24 May 2012)

Some progress perhaps. (Blog article here.)

They have continued to repaint the cycle lanes in both directions along most of Manchester Rd, exactly as they were before, so I wrote this open letter a couple of weeks ago to the chap at the Highway Authority, with a copy to my councillor:


> Dear Bolton Highway Authority,
> SUB-STANDARD CYCLE LANES IN BOLTON​In August 2011, I wrote to Bolton Streetcare, pointing out a number of issues regarding the poor standard of cycle lanes in Bolton, particular on my commuter route from Astley Bridge to Salford. My message was forwarded by the Streetcare team to yourselves in the Highway Department on 30th August 2011. A copy of the message I sent, along with your reply, is included in this blog post.
> In that message, I pointed out that “most cycle lanes in the borough do not meet the minimum acceptable width of 2.0m (or 1.5m on roads that are not busy and have a 30mph speed limit), which is specified in section 7.4.2 of [the] DfT guidelines“, and mentioned particularly Manchester road in this respect.
> In your reply, which you sent to me on 2nd September 2011, you gave two main reasons for this failure to meet the guidelines:
> ...


 
The pictures can be seen in the open letter in my blog site.

Yesterday, I got this reply:


> _Thank you for your e-mail regarding the above._​_The road markings concerned were renewed by our maintenance contractor and obviously some cycle lanes have been put back as they were rather than to the latest guidelines. We will review the route and rectify the road markings as necessary._​_Yours sincerely,_​


 
I won't hold my breath, but at least it looks promising.

(Now, what about those door zone cycle lanes further on ... hm.)


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## davefb (28 May 2012)

not even funny is it...
mind you, it'd be great evidence if anyone got hurt..


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## MrHappyCyclist (1 Jun 2012)

When I got the last, promising, reply, I asked what the likely timescale would be. I only just saw the answer as I sent my email from the wrong account, but it looks good:


> The works should be carried out w/c 11th or 18th June hopefully if the weather is ok.


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## MrHappyCyclist (2 Jun 2012)

Just found out from the Greater Manchester Cycle Challenge pages that the engineer I've been communicating with rides a bicycle himself. Here's hoping.


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## YahudaMoon (2 Jun 2012)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Just found out from the Greater Manchester Cycle Challenge pages that the engineer I've been communicating with rides a bicycle himself. Here's hoping.


 
Most if not all cycling lanes / facilities are put in place with cyclist


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