# My pre-weight loss blood test...any ideas?



## TheBoyBilly (23 Feb 2010)

I have decided I really, really must get into some sort of shape. I am extremely overweight and so I went to see my Doctor for a check-up. (This was also partly brought on by my brother's recent diagnosis with type 2 diabetes, so I thought it best for me to be tested too).
The Doc said my heart rate was up from the last reading twelve months ago but not by too much and still okay but in the upper realms. Exercise and diet were the key, obviously. For what it's worth I used to smoke but gave up in 2004. I take a 20mg tablet of Atorvestatin for my cholesterol each day, by the way.
So to today, a week after my blood test. I rang for an appointment but there were none to be had. I explained that I needed to find out if anything was amiss or should be followed up. The woman on the desk got my results and said that both types of cholesterol were fine and in fact everything was normal (she mentioned other stuff but it went over my head to be honest) and with no trace of diabetes found.
So, with everything seeming to be okay and me being fit enough(it would seem) to start of gently exercising, do you think I need to contact the Doctor to go through my results more fully, or do you think that if anything were amiss I'd soon be contacted?
All I'm looking for here is a bit of advice to take this niggling little concern away.

Thanks, Bill


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## gaz (24 Feb 2010)

The internet is generally not the best place for advice on whether you should just go for it or not, we don't know you or your family's medical history, and nor are we trained medical professionals. i would be on the safe side and just go and see the doctor and talk to him about your plans to lose weight.

Best of luck with shedding the pounds.


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## TheBoyBilly (24 Feb 2010)

Thanks Gaz, point taken. I hadn't looked at it that way in all honesty. It's just that I don't really want to bother my GP when if there was something to worry about I would assume he would contact me. I shall just have to get an appointment.

Thank you too for your good wishes,

Bill


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

TheBoyBilly said:


> I have decided I really, really must get into some sort of shape. I am extremely overweight and so I went to see my Doctor for a check-up. (This was also partly brought on by my brother's recent diagnosis with type 2 diabetes, so I thought it best for me to be tested too).
> The Doc said my heart rate was up from the last reading twelve months ago but not by too much and still okay but in the upper realms. Exercise and diet were the key, obviously. For what it's worth I used to smoke but gave up in 2004. I take a 20mg tablet of Atorvestatin for my cholesterol each day, by the way.
> So to today, a week after my blood test. *I rang for an appointment but there were none to be had.* I explained that I needed to find out if anything was amiss or should be followed up. The woman on the desk got my results and said that both types of cholesterol were fine and in fact everything was normal (she mentioned other stuff but it went over my head to be honest) and with no trace of diabetes found.
> So, with everything seeming to be okay and me being fit enough(it would seem) to start of gently exercising, do you think I need to contact the Doctor to go through my results more fully, or do you think that if anything were amiss I'd soon be contacted?
> ...




A bit surprised you couldn't make an appointment when you want one. The opposite with me; but the same result - no appointment, however I did get the GP to phone me and discuss the results.

Phone the surgery and try and get the GP to phone you back. You're probably OK to crack on but you need reassurance to give you the confidence to do so.


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## ASC1951 (24 Feb 2010)

TheBoyBilly said:


> It's just that I don't really want to bother my GP when if there was something to worry about I would assume he would contact me.


That's why we pay GPs £120,000 a year, so that we can bother them without feeling guilty. Don't assume he will contact you - they are so busy that the system works on you bringing problems to them, not the other way round.

Here is my experience, gained from smoking until 30 years ago and occasionally being at least 45lb overweight:-
- giving up smoking is by far the most important thing to do and you've already done that;
- regular exercise will make the world feel a much better place, but if you are overweight as opposed to unfit diet is the key to losing it. Better food and less of it.
- you don't need to go balls out with the exercise until you are a lot closer to your proper weight. You just need to do it at a level that makes you sweat and unable to talk evenly; and do that for at least half an hour most days.
- it will take a long time, it really will. Months. Possibly a couple of years. Ignore all methods that tell you you can lose excess weight a lot faster than it got there, because the body has physical and mental 'starvation mode mechanisms' to make you put it straight back on.


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## TheBoyBilly (24 Feb 2010)

Thank you Bill, and ASC1951.
I always have a problem getting an appointment with my GP as, even when I get through at 8am or just after they always seem to be fully booked. It makes me wonder how all these other folk get in when they could hardly beat me to it in the morning, as you have to make your appt 'on the day'. I shall try the Call-back system that Bill mentioned. I am pretty clued up as to how to go about my initial training and diet. It's putting it into practice that's the bugbear, what with my shifts which are all over the place. Still, happy to report that the new-ish lady in my life is going to sort me out good and proper, and admonish me if I should come of the rails. With the nicer weather hopefuly around the corner it should make for a good time to start. And I'm not short of a decent bike either. Thanks for your advice, it was most appreciated and has eased my mind considerably,

Bill


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## srw (24 Feb 2010)

TheBoyBilly said:


> s you have to make your appt 'on the day'.



Hmmmm... I didn't think they were allowed to do that.



> Still, happy to report that the new-ish lady in my life is going to sort me out good and proper, and admonish me if I should come of the rails.



Top tip - she won't. Or if she does, you risk a falling out. Find someone you're less close to but who you're unhappy to let down. 

Even better, pay someone to train you. I faffed around for about 20 years not losing weight but knowing exactly whatI _ought_ to be doing, and it's only this last year when I've finally got a trainer that I feel I'm making real progress. Yes, it's expensive (though less than you think) but it's worth it.


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## plank (24 Feb 2010)

Reading these webpages seem to be a good way to get into shape. I don't know if I would trust doctors advice on diet and exercise.

http://stronglifts.com/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.fathead-movie.com/

and this is an interesting article on cholesterol

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/

It could all be wrong of course...


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

plank said:


> and this is an interesting article on cholesterol
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/
> 
> It could all be wrong of course...




It isn't. 

But of course you can always trust your GP because most anything you read on the internet is rubbish. 

The first post I ever made to an internet forum was August 2005 on the old Cycling Plus. I was using my own name in those days. It was about how taking statins had affected me, and the purpose was to warn others of the dangers. The response was hysterical. You would have thought I'd murdered the pope. There are some on here who were present in those days and may remember. 

Well to all those people who gave me a hard time I'd just like to say that you can't say I didn't warn you.


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## plank (24 Feb 2010)

Do you think statins are actually bad for you? I haven't looked into it very much but was coming to the conclusion that;

at best they could have some benefits but didn't actually do anything to solve the problem (which I thought was is a build up of arterial plaque caused by oxidised cholesterol on irritated areas)

at worse they were a waste of time and money

Having said that I thought cholesterol was essential for membrane maintenance and creation so seems potentially harmful to try and limit production!

But like I said I didn't look into it too much, espically I don't think I would take them when they seem to be recommended based on bad tests! 

Would be interesting to hear more.


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

plank said:


> Do you think statins are actually bad for you? I haven't looked into it very much but was coming to the conclusion that;
> 
> at best they could have some benefits but didn't actually do anything to solve the problem (which I thought was is a build up of arterial plaque caused by oxidised cholesterol on irritated areas)
> 
> ...



http://www.spacedoc.net/lipitor_side_effects.htm

Read number 9. That's me

http://www.westonaprice.org/Dangers...t-Popular-Cholesterol-Lowering-Medicines.html

Describes how it works


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## plank (24 Feb 2010)

Wow very nasty, I haven't read how it works yet, just your report.

Out of interest have you altered your diet or made any other changes/had further testing.


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## TheBoyBilly (24 Feb 2010)

My Doc wanted to see if the Atorvastatin I was taking was doing any damage to my liver or kidneys. I will have to discuss this with him. A quick perusal of Bill's links is really quite scary. I had heard something on the radio about statins but nothing very conclusive seemed to come out of the discussion. I was thinking along the lines of how one day a certain food is bad for you and the next the elixir of life. It's a minefield.

Bill


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

plank said:


> Wow very nasty, I haven't read how it works yet, just your report.
> 
> Out of interest have you altered your diet or made any other changes/had further testing.



Was taking ateronon but it's very expensive and eat 30 grams of tomato paste a day now instead. Hardly eat any bread or pasta (small particles of LDL) and replaced with oat cakes (Nairns- large particle LDL). Otherwise eat fairly normally with regular helpings of avocado pear and nuts and red peppers with salads. Not worried about eating eggs or red meat. Steak is a favourite of mine.

Also supplement 2000mg or 3000 mg cod liver oil a day and 200 mg CoQ10 a day


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

TheBoyBilly said:


> My Doc wanted to see if the Atorvastatin I was taking was doing any damage to my liver or kidneys. I will have to discuss this with him. A quick perusal of Bill's links is really quite scary. I had heard something on the radio about statins but nothing very conclusive seemed to come out of the discussion. I was thinking along the lines of how one day a certain food is bad for you and the next the elixir of life. It's a minefield.
> 
> Bill



I was doing VO2max interval training at the time trying to build top end speed. Instead I was doing myself enormous muscle damage, including my heart.


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## plank (24 Feb 2010)

To sum up my views quickly (again could be wrong)

BAD, processed carbs eg wheat flour (so bread and pasta), sugar ESP extracted FRUCOSE. Trans Fats. Food substitutes, eg margarine. Strange cooking oils.

OK(but not worth making a fuss about)most fruit, oats, rice, starchy veg, eg potato

GOOD, vegetables, esp green leafy(eg kale), fats (including SATURATED fats), low sugar fruits eg berrys. Salts, PsudoGrains(cookable seeds), eg quinoa, buckwheat. Protein rich food, espically whole eggs. Extra virgin and regular Olive oil (not light). 

Be careful with using strange oils for cooking, some of them are probably better than olive oil, like coconut oil. but some are probably REALLY bad. I just stick with olive oil and butter...



Exercise, weights are better than long cardio sessions (although I do a lot of both!)

Edit: don't know if you are interested in new supplements but I'm a fan of a heaped tablespoon of glutamine and water on an empty stomach(and empty for 30 mins after) (so first thing in the morning for me). It helps me a lot with recovery, or at least I think so!


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## Bill Gates (24 Feb 2010)

plank said:


> To sum up my views quickly (again could be wrong)
> 
> BAD, processed carbs eg wheat flour (so bread and pasta), sugar ESP extracted FRUCOSE. Trans Fats. Food substitutes, eg margarine. Strange cooking oils.
> 
> ...




Red coloured vegetables are good to eat as they are antioxidant. My home made energy drink is 3/4 cranberry juice 1/4 water with lemon barley and 3 large spoons of honey.


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## HobbesChoice (2 Mar 2010)

What did you decide on Bill? Did you speak to the Dr about your results or did you decide to carry on anyway?


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## Fab Foodie (2 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> Do you think statins are actually bad for you? I haven't looked into it very much but was coming to the conclusion that;
> 
> at best they could have some benefits but didn't actually do anything to solve the problem (which I thought was is a build up of arterial plaque caused by oxidised cholesterol on irritated areas)
> 
> ...



Having suffered from 1 clogged artery that almost killed-me, I'm taking my statins as per the best available advice until something better come along...
I'm aware there are side effects, but being dead in your 40s is pretty unpleasant too.
Some of us are natural cholesterol overproducers and there's not so much that can be done.


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## plank (2 Mar 2010)

Just wondering if you read any of the links further up?

edit, I'm not having a go by the way. Just wondering


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## Bill Gates (2 Mar 2010)

HobbesChoice said:


> What did you decide on Bill? Did you speak to the Dr about your results or did you decide to carry on anyway?



My cholesterol levels are better than normal. If they weren't then that would be a different story. My question is why does the medical profession want me to take statins to reduce my levels of cholesterol if they are OK?

I went back to the last blood test I had done (March 2008) and the figures included triglycerides. The figures were total cholesterol 6.6, tri 1.2, HDL 2.05 LDL 4.0, Ratio HDL/total 3.22.

Anything above 2mmol/L is considered a high level of triglycerides, yet mine were 1.2 (nearly half) and they were still pushing statins at me.

Ratio HDL/Total should be less than 5. Mine was 3.22.


This time around total 6.6, HDL 2.06, LDL 4.54, HDL/Total 3.2.

Not much changed from 2 years ago. They contacted me a year ago but I declined. To be honest I probably won't have any more blood tests done as they cause too much hassle, unless they identified mix of small and large particles of LDL. Large particles don't cause plaque build up but small particles do. The rest is academic. My diet is designed to produce large particles LDL (little or no bread, replace with oats)


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## Bill Gates (2 Mar 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> Having suffered from 1 clogged artery that almost killed-me, I'm taking my statins as per the best available advice until something better come along...
> I'm aware there are side effects, but being dead in your 40s is pretty unpleasant too.
> *Some of us are natural cholesterol overproducers and there's not so much that can be done.*



Got any figures pre statins and post statins?


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## Fab Foodie (2 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> Just wondering if you read any of the links further up?
> 
> edit, I'm not having a go by the way. Just wondering



Yeah, I'm aware. I know some suffer and some don't. Me and my cycle buddy are both on Statins and neither of us have a great issue with how we are feeling on them. Of course there may be some hidden issues, we don't know.

On my current regime I don't have too many issues, though we're experimenting (me and the Doc) with higher Simvastatin dosage and the first go at that didn't feel good. However there are a lot of external factors and when we're a bit calmed-down workwise I'll have another go.

Statins are not perfect, but at my current dosage they're OK. Higher might be an issue. Somehow though I need to shave a few points to get my Cholesterol levels down below 5.

I also take cod liver oil, though just a 1000mg/day and have oat breakfast and oat snack bars.

I'm also wary of reading stuff on the web too.

Doing nothing is not an option.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> Got any figures pre statins and post statins?



have been in double figures once, now just about 5.5 on a good day. Have scraped below 5 when excercising a lot and really watching my diet. Also quit smoking. OK many factors have an effect. I can't say exectly hopw much the Statin contributes. ma

Simvastatin at Night and Ezetimibe in the morning, though we're questioning the value of the Ezetimibe because it's not diet related in the way that Cholesterol ingestion is the cause.


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## plank (2 Mar 2010)

what is "watching my diet"? I always read that to mean eating low fat and lots of wholegrain.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> what is "watching my diet"?



...eating all the stuff that's supposed to aid cholesterol lowering, lots of fibre, fruit, veg, whole grains, oats, cooked tomatoes, nuts oily fish, red wine.... lots of red wine yadda yadda... it was costing a fortune in toilet paper. Ended-up going to the docs thinking I had a bowel disorder.


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## plank (2 Mar 2010)

the reason I was asking is because from what I have read up while trying to get more of a grip on what diet is doing to me in terms of training for sports most peoples idea of a healthy diet is backwards.

eg. 
choosing low fat products which contains excessive sugar or sweeteners (and who knows what else?)
basing a diet on a large amount of processed and refined carbs (every meal!)
avoiding saturated fat and foods containing cholesterol (eg eggs)
eating massive amounts of fruit (fructose is no different to glucose, infact it may be worse)

I would guess your bowel problem was caused from excess sugar and gluten as I have the same problem and it seems very common.

In some of the above articles it mentions that cholesterol is not the root of the problem so taking drugs to lower cholesterol is not addressing the full issue. 

Obviously you had a very real problem and so do many other people but I believe that a change of diet would prevent or improve a lot of these cases. There are a few more links further up this post that might be interesting to read for someone in your situation.

Like you said this is all information I have found on the internet so may not be true.

Anway I'm not going to talk about it anymore! good luck


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## Fab Foodie (2 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> the reason I was asking is because from what I have read up while trying to get more of a grip on what diet is doing to me in terms of training for sports most peoples idea of a healthy diet is backwards.
> 
> eg.
> choosing low fat products which contains excessive sugar or sweeteners (and who knows what else?)
> ...



No I think the bowel issues were due to to a change to too much fibre!
Fortunately I have quite a reasonable knowledge of food and its components and a working appreciation of Biochemistry too.

The problem with all these things is that they are very complex and highly multi-factorial, so there is no 'one-fits-all' solution. There are however a lot of things individuals can do to reduce the effects of Cholesterol and Statins have been clinically demonstrated to have a major effect on a wide range of sufferers. It's also a relatively cheap treatment and requires no other lifestyle changes to demonstrate a positive effect. 
There are downsides, some will be affected more than others. Everybody is at liberty to make their own decision if they are not prepared to follow the Doctor's advice (and I accept that the medical profession does not know everything).


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## ASC1951 (3 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> Be careful with using strange oils for cooking, some of them are probably better than olive oil, like coconut oil. but some are probably REALLY bad. I just stick with olive oil and butter...


Olive oil isn't the best for cooking - it smokes and cracks too easily. I use olive oil in salads but cook with cold pressed rapeseed oil, which has a light neutral taste as well as being one of the healthier oils.

I don't eat butter at all, but only because I don't have an off switch for it; same with cheese.


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## ColinJ (3 Mar 2010)

ASC1951 said:


> Olive oil isn't the best for cooking - it smokes and cracks too easily. I use olive oil in salads but cook with cold pressed rapeseed oil, which has a light neutral taste as well as being one of the healthier oils.


I'll have to give the rapeseed oil a go - I noticed that olive oil wasn't ideal for cooking.



ASC1951 said:


> I don't eat butter at all, but only because I don't have an off switch for it; same with cheese.


I won't have butter, cheese, bread, cake, biscuits or chocolate in the house because I'm the same as you - if I have easy access to any of those things, I wolf them down. 

I use cottage cheese where I would otherwise use butter or cheese - in a baked potato for example.

I'd be quite happy to eat a cheese salad sandwich and/or a piece of cake at a cafe stop on a long bike ride or walk.


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## TheBoyBilly (4 Mar 2010)

I am in the middle of a house move (running back and forth between West Sussex and Kent) and all that goes with it so don't have much time to get to my Doctor at the moment what with having to go to work as well (a poor excuse I know) but, as I have a fortnights supply of statins left before my repeat perscription renewal, (and the fact that nothing worrying came up in my blood test) I will leave contacting my GP until I need more tablets, and before I have to change GP practice. Bill has made me think hard about whether there are any benefits in carrying on with Atorvastatin. 
Thank you all for your advice over this. All you have said has eased my mind to the point that I have started an easy exercise regime so far involving riding across London to my work and back from St Pancras International which involves 2 x 30 minute stretches, plus a 15 minute climb from Westenhanger station up to Lympne at the end of the day....it's all downhill first thing in the day so I can't count that! Plus extra walking of the dogs over the airfield every day must help too. The car is looking very forlorn these days.
Thanks again,

Bill


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## Bill Gates (4 Mar 2010)

Double post[FONT=&quot]
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## Bill Gates (4 Mar 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> ...eating all the stuff that's supposed to aid cholesterol lowering, lots of fibre, fruit, veg, whole grains, oats, cooked tomatoes, nuts oily fish, red wine.... lots of red wine yadda yadda... it was costing a fortune in toilet paper. Ended-up going to the docs thinking I had a bowel disorder.




http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/h...article1462757/?service=mobile&page=2#article

Interesting findings but you should read the whole thing, here are a few of the main conclusions.

_[FONT=&quot]There is no difference in the risks of heart disease or stroke between people with the highest and lowest intakes of saturated fat.

__[FONT=&quot]It turns out that the reduction in LDL cholesterol that’s known to occur by curbing saturated fat appears to be specific to large, fluffy LDL particles.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The studies that have shown a beneficial effect on heart disease risk by lowering saturated fat are ones that have replaced saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat. The main sources of polyunsaturated fat include cooking oils (e.g. sunflower, safflower, soybean, corn, grape seed, hemp, flaxseed and walnut oil) and oily fish. 

[/FONT]_[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]_Replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate – especially refined – in conjunction with obesity can create a metabolic environment that favours heart disease by boosting blood triglycerides (fat), lowering HDL cholesterol and increasing small, dense LDL particles.

_[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]_Evidence suggests that limiting carbohydrate intake can reduce elevated blood triglycerides and dense LDL cholesterol, and increase HDL cholesterol.

_[/FONT] _[FONT=&quot]Some studies, but not all, have linked a high-glycemic diet from refined carbohydrates with a greater risk of heart disease. 

[/FONT]_ _The thinking on diet and heart disease is moving away from focusing on saturated fat. Limiting refined carbohydrates (e.g. sugar and white flour products), losing excess weight and emphasizing polyunsaturated fats from vegetables oils and fish appear to do more to lower your risk of heart disease than simply giving up cheese._

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


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## Fab Foodie (4 Mar 2010)

Thanks Bill.

I'll take a read when my brain-cell is functioning instead of a 14 hour day at work...
From your praecy it shows that understanding of cholesterol management is not simple or as 'obvious' as often thought. Insulin and Carbohydrate management seems to play a much bigger part in metabolism than thought a few years ago, and I'm sure that, that that thinking will evolve as more research is carried out.
For my own part I do use poly (or mono where feasible) unsaturated fats rather than deprivation and am also moving to a much lower carb diet. Interestingly I attended a seminar a few years ago on Metabolic sysndrome-X. One lecture showed some interesting correlations charting the rapid rise in obesity (particularly in Children) with the sudden trend of the low fat diet in the early '80s... and what were we told to replace fat with... _lots of carbs!_ I recall not thinking it a good idea at the time and being ridiculed, c'est la vie.
So even by modern thinking I'm doing I think most things right, having unsaturated fats, fish-oils, plenty fresh fruit and veg, fibres, oats etc. Reducing my refined carbs, eating lower GI products for my carb input, eating plenty natural antioxidants, not smoking, moderate alcohol and as much excercise as I can get around too... oh, and taking my meds.


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## Dunbar (31 Jul 2010)

Statins cause my ankles to swell; add this to the swelling I get from a recent knee-op, and it's bad news. My GP said to try them, and if I noticed ill-effects, stop taking them. She also cleared me to ride a bike, with the proviso that if it made things worse in the knee area then I should stop! 
Sounds like good advice to me! 

Regards
John


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## TheBoyBilly (3 Aug 2010)

I am off the Atorvastatin tablets as I went to see my GP and asked, as I am much more active now, if I needed to carry on taking them. She said to give it a go without statins and to have a blood test in October and take it from there. Fingers crossed, all this exercise is doing me good in that direction as well as getting my weight down.

Bill


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## e-rider (17 Aug 2010)

I thought that most overweight people suffered from 'fatty liver' which shows up in blood tests. Generally not a 'killer' but something to monitor closely if you have it, and a good reason to lose weight before it's too late. 25% of Americans have fatty liver!


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## Dunbar (22 Aug 2010)

That must be me then! 
Although latest tests say no problems in that area. I really must 'get on me bike!'
J


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