# handlebars on fixed and track bikes



## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

why are they always pointing quite severely downwards, more so than on normal road bikes? is it a fashion thing or some ergonomic advantage?


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

Fashion, mostly.

You'll have one before long, won't you? I can see you getting drawn into it...


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

well, maybe
i might bid on this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260269925770&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
i've asked him for a photo of the under-BB shell but it doesn't strike me as nicked


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

I can tell you're over the even horizon now. It's just a matter of how long it takes you to fall into the black hole of fixie ownership.

We've differed on this point before, but personally, I think the sleek, minimalist lines of a fixe should be unsullied by fat ally tubes and threadless stems that look like scaffold joints.

But if I were thinking of a second fixie, I'd be bidding on that frame anyway.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

I don't understand, and therefore don't trust, threaded headsets.  but i suppose if a nice frameset appeared with threaded forks (and threaded steerer - the frame itself has to be threaded aswell as the forks presumably?) then i may bite the bullet... only when i had a £50 bargain basement bin shitter MTBSO, my first bike, it had a threaded headset which kept coming loose, resulting in loss of steering. which wasn't good. And i still don't know why. And i dont' like bike problems that i don't know what's causing it.
the one thing that makes it look bling for me is nice wheels. i.e., radial spokes, deep section rims (if possible without being too expensive) and, importantly, washing-basket hubs. but where do you get fixie parts? like wheels, and cranks? all the ones on wiggle etc. are for non fixies. Do you ahve to just join some club and "know the right bloke" who can get you one on the black market?


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## domtyler (8 Aug 2008)

Hub Jub is a good place to start.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

hmm.. they haven't got any washing basket hubs or pics of completed wheels but they have got black hubs which are quite nice...


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## domtyler (8 Aug 2008)

"washing basket hubs"???


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

a bit like this bike
http://www.kgsbikes.com/images/IMGVIEWER2/IMG_4595.JPG

(that's a very nice bike actually)


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## Christopher (8 Aug 2008)

I guess he means high-flange hubs with coutouts, Dom. I have them, they are very pretty.

Anyway Planet-X do a lot of track stuff:
http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Track.html

A lot of people use high-end components on their fixed: Phil Wood, Chris King, Goldtech, Royce etc. All very fine but very pricy. You can do just as well with standard components like Shimano BBs, Cane Creek headets and single rings made to fit normal spiders. Spa Cycles do single chainrings in every standard BCD (110 through 144mm). SJS Cycles do more still and in funny sizes like 151mm.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

does this frame look any good to you? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330257762314#description


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

Frustruck said:


> I guess he means *high-flange hubs with coutouts, *Dom. I have them, they are very pretty.
> 
> Anyway Planet-X do a lot of track stuff:
> http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Track.html
> ...



yeah.


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

A nice frame, that. The down tube gear lever bosses would irritate me if I didn't remove them though - and that would mean a new paint job.

The only components specific to a fixie are the rear hub, sprocket and lockring. Everything else can be regular bike parts.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

yeah me too. i'd want to powder coat it black anyway... wouldn't cover those bits though... seat post clamp looks a bit rusty aswell


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

Ah, now you're being fussy - the seat post clamp isn't part of the frame. You might dig into your savings for a new one.

If you're going to have it powder coated, you can take the opportunity to make any other alterations to the frame you fancy - like adding or removing bottle cage bosses, mudguard eyes and so on. If it was me, I'd remove the gear lever bosses and leave it at that. If you're handy with a brazing torch, removing them would take about five minutes. Five more minutes with a file and you're done.

I've done a few modifications of this sort to frames now, including a frame whose dropouts I removed and replaced with track ends. And I have a nice man up the road who does excellent powder coating. And I know exactly how threaded headsets work and how to set them up properly.

Buy this frame and I'll "fix" it for you, powder-coat it and re-fit the headset and bottom bracket. I'll build the whole bike on it if you want.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

my concern is that if you lop off the DT braze ons then it'll be left with a hole.
will it not?
I'd want to keep the bottle cage bosses.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

it definitely looks like the seat post clamp is part of the frame! look at the 6th photo down (where he's got his calor gas and bbq in the background) - it's just a bolt that goes through two lugs that are part of the seat tube!


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

can you get like metal filler, that you can use like polyfilla but that powder coating will cover?


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

Most DT lever bosses are simply brazed onto the outside of the frame tube. Soften the brass with your oxy-acetylene torch, pull the boss off and file away any remaining brass and you're done.

I've come across some on cheap frames which are spot-welded. These need to be ground off and then all traces of the weld carefully filed away.

This is a 531 frame, though, and too thin and delicate to be welded, so it won't have spot welds.

Some bosses fit into holes in the frame tube, but the holes are smaller than the external part of the boss. Same procedure; soften the brass and pull out the boss. Fill the remaining hole with brass. 

(Liquid brass is quite clingy, and forms nice curves and miniscuses, so that's not as hard as it sounds. This is pretty much how lugged-and-brazed frames are built: the molten brass creeps into the tiny gap between the frame and the lug, filling it completely and alloying with the hot steel to make a very strong joing. Fillet-brazed frames require a slightly different technique, where the brass provides some strength by forming a fillet around the joint as well as filling the microscopic space between them - but again, the clinginess of the brass makes it form quite nice fillets without too much trouble, given a bit of skill on the part of the brazier. Any unevenness is filed away when it's cool. Anyway, where was I?...)

Oh, yes, then carefully file away any excess until it's flush. Brass is softer than steel, so that's not hard to do. 

The scars of any of the above operations are more than adequately covered by re-finishing.

I'm confused about your confusion about the seat post clamp. The lugs on the seat tube may be rusty, but you're planning to re-finish it anyway, so no problem there - any rust will be removed. And there's plenty of rust elsewhere. It may be steel, but it takes a lot more rust than that to cause any structural weakness. (It's very rare indeed for a steel frame to fail from rust: cracks are much more common, and even they can often be fixed).

The other part of the clamp is, as you say, a bolt. Which is rusty. So buy a new stainless steel one.

This sort of work is everyday bread and butter stuff to any frame-building workshop. They might charge you £5 or £10 to remove bosses on top of the cost for re-finishing.


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

bonj said:


> can you get like metal filler, that you can use like polyfilla but that powder coating will cover?



Yes, it's called brass! See above long-winded answer.


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## Christopher (8 Aug 2008)

[A-Team]Ah luve it when a plan kums togetha![/A-Team]


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

ok cheers
is 126mm a standard hub width? i've only seen 120 and 135
(i thought 135 was a MTB size anyway and standard road bikes were 130?)


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

also, which of the following is correct?
* it's easy to take the headset off
* it's easy to put the headset back on again
* you need a special tool to do the above
* the quill stem has no direct connection to the headset, only to the steerer by virtue of friction caused by expansion
* the only purpose of the headset is to hold the forks to the headtube of the frame


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

126 mm was standard in the days of 5 and 6-speed screw-on freewheels. It could easily be sprung to take a 130mm hub, or cold-set.

In any case, fixed hubs usually come with a selection of spacers and washers that can be added or removed to suit the frame spacing, so fitting a fixed hub in it would be no problem.

Removing and re-fitting a headset is not difficult.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

would it be possible to fill the back brake hole up? (with brass?)
and the spacers could be used to tweak the chain line presumably by having them on the right or left?


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## RedBike (8 Aug 2008)

Am I the only person who's completely shocked by this thread?

It wasn't so long ago that Bonj didn't see the point of fixed wheel bikes and wouldn't be seen dead on one!


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

no, i only didn't see the point in _single speed_ bikes. Which i still don't. My feelings towards fixed has been at most confused.


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

bonj said:


> would it be possible to fill the back brake hole up? (with brass?)
> and the spacers could be used to tweak the chain line presumably by having them on the right or left?



Yes, it'd be possible, but pointlessly extreme. It's not a hole you're ever going to notice - not like the DT lever bosses. Besides, one day you might want to fit mudguards.  You might want to remove the rear derailleur cable stop on the right hand chainstay though. And if you're determined not to have a back brake, you'd probably want to lose the cable guides on the top of the top tube.

And yes, you could use axle spacers in that way, but the usual plan is to add or remove equal amounts of spacers from both sides, so that the wheel remains central relative to the frame. 

Chain line is usually tweaked by varying bottom bracket axle length and choosing whether the chain ring is bolted on the inside or outside of the chainset spider. If you're _really_ anal about it, you can put washers between the spider and chain ring. Some posh bottom brackets are adjustable so that you can tweak the chainline that way.

Yes, I am shocked. But I'm trying to be helpful and persuasive. Is it working?


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## RedBike (8 Aug 2008)

> well, i can sort of see _some_ point, in that it'd be fun to goon round the village on one for a laugh, but can't see how it would be that good for most real-world cycling.



!


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

see what you mean about it being anal to fill the back brake hole up, yes it would a bit wouldn't it. Would want to remove the cable stops though.

Bear in mind that i'm not living in sheffield at the minute, so the feasibility of a fixed is a lot higher. By the time i'm living in sheffield again, i might have got strong enough for it not to matter!


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

now if i was getting a fixed i would want nice wheels ideally with deep section rims and washing-basket hubs! where would i get those>? Or if tha't snot possible for like, less than a grand say, then all black wheels or deep rims and black hubs or normal rims and washing basket hubs. Basically as many as possible out of: washing basket hubs, black, deep rims, radial, light, stiff, strong.


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

When you get it back to Sheffield, you might want that back brake put back on...


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## domtyler (8 Aug 2008)

Have you thought about colour schemes yet bonj?


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

bonj said:


> now if i was getting a fixed i would want nice wheels ideally with deep section rims and washing-basket hubs! where would i get those>?



Are these any good?


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## domtyler (8 Aug 2008)

http://bricklanebikes.co.uk/velocity


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> When you get it back to Sheffield, you might want that back brake put back on...


nah, i won't need a back brake. I hardly ever need a back brake on my freewheeling road bike, so i certainly wouldn't on a fixed.
the only times i've ever used the back brake:
* before i knew that there was no point
* stopping at the lights on east bank road (steep) from 40mph,which made it fishtail
* when slowing down for a junction whilst simultaneously having a drink with my right hand.


domtyler said:


> Have you thought about colour schemes yet bonj?


BLACK!



Uncle Phil said:


> Are these any good?



yeah they're NICE! $150 though? tha'ts cheap, is there a catch?
edit: 1200g, is that fairly heavy?


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

Or these?

I've got a pair similar to these, but with slightly different Weinmann rim. The hubs are very smooth indeed. They're evidently machine-built, so they needed a little work to get them tensioned nicely and to stay true, but not much. I think mine cost about £100 by the time I'd paid the shipping, VAT and import duty.

If you really want radial wheels, you can always have someone re-build them that way, but you'd need new, shorter spokes. I wouldn't recommend it.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

that is quite heavy really isn't it
compared to say these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Easton_EA90SLX_Wheel_Set/5360029622/


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

domtyler said:


> http://bricklanebikes.co.uk/velocity



isn't brick lane where they sell all bikes that have been nicked?


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

You can pay $150, or you can pay £350 and save 272g.

(But in any case, the Wiggle wheels have a cassette rear hub, not a fixed one. Yes, you could use a cassette rear wheel with a converter, but that'd give you a single speed, and anyway it's a bodge and unworthy of the likes of you).

You pays your money...

You won't notice 270 g by the time you've put on tyres, tubes and rim tapes. You'd save more weight by taking a leak before you set off - and that won't cost you £200.

You could of course buy your rims and hubs separately and have someone build the wheels just the way you want them.


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## BentMikey (8 Aug 2008)

Crikey, that's now two topics with bonj asking questions and learning! Quite impressed!


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## Tharg2007 (8 Aug 2008)

i got a rather nice set of wheels from ribble cycles
miche primato large flange hubs, mavic cxp33 black rims and wheel build including spokes for about £135


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> You can pay $150, or you can pay £350 and save 272g.
> 
> (But in any case, the Wiggle wheels have a cassette rear hub, not a fixed one. Yes, you could use a cassette rear wheel with a converter, but that'd give you a single speed, and anyway it's a bodge and unworthy of the likes of you).
> 
> ...



hmmm... see your point, but it's more like a kg, not 270g
they're 1200g each, the easton ones are 1400 a PAIR
that doesn't include the cassette though does it - so i 'spose it's not too much of an issue really especially seeing as a fixed is going to be pretty light anyway as it doens't need a mech, cables, etc

nice wheels though so cheers for pointing that out.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

well my dad's got an old bike that's got a 531 frame and in a general state of disrepair, and VERY dusty, probably a bit rusty aswell, and he doesn't want it...probably hasn't been ridden for years... so i think i might do that up ...


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## Amanda P (8 Aug 2008)

I'm not sure where you got the 1200g figure from - I can't find it.


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## bonj2 (8 Aug 2008)

if you scroll down, as one of the bullet points, it says "Average weight: 1284g rear, 1243g front"


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## kyuss (9 Aug 2008)

That's pretty damned heavy. For comparison a pair of Halo Aerorage Track wheels will cost you £150 (£133 if you get them from Chain Reaction but they don't have stock at the moment) and they weigh in at 980gm for the front and 1045gm for the rear. Not exactly featherweight but that's a whole 1lb lighter and most of that weight loss will be at the rim where it matters most.

The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.


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## kyuss (9 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> You won't notice 270 g by the time you've put on tyres, tubes and rim tapes. You'd save more weight by taking a leak before you set off - and that won't cost you £200.



I'd disagree with that. If that weight was off the frame I might agree but weight off the wheels is the one place that you really really notice the difference especially if it's at the rims.

A bit of research shows those Weinmann rims to be really really heavy. They are cheap copies of the Rigida DP18 which themselves come in at 570 each which is fairly heavy. A Mavic CXP33 for instance (which is still a fairly deep rim) is almost 100gm lighter.

I couldn't find figures on Weinmann's own site for weights but the hubs used on the Weinmann build are Formula which according to Sheldon are the same as his own brand Harris Cyclery ones coming in at 275 for the front and 330 for the rear. The weights on the Formula site seem to confirm this. Average weight of 64 DT plain gauge spokes going by info from their site is about 320gm, or 160gsm per wheel. Let's be on the safe side and call it 200gm. That means those Weinmann rims are well over 700gm each.  I wouldn't like to try and spin those up to speed.


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## Amanda P (9 Aug 2008)

I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.

I hadn't seen the weight figures, but you're right - the difference is over a kilo, and in the rim, where it counts. I thought it was only a couple of hundred grams, which I don't think anyone would really notice, even in rims, unless they were to do a very careful side-by-side road test.

On the other hand, Bonj wanted: cheap, large-flange hubs, black, deep-section rims and radial spokes. I found him four out of five, which ain't bad - and he never said he wanted 'em light as well!


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## ASC1951 (9 Aug 2008)

Right then, gentlemen, my new ti track frame for the road has just arrived from the Chinese People's Bicycle Factory #27, so like Bonj I'm in the market for some wheels.

I've saved enough on the frame to afford some decent wheels, but there is no point me spending £500 on a set of carbon lovelies because I'm not worth it. I just want some stiff light wheels with non-bladed spokes. They would have to be clinchers, I think, because that is all I have ever ridden. [Last month in the Alps people did shout back "Oi! Tubby! Keep pedalling", but I reckon they couldn't possibly have seen my tyres at that distance.]

Any further recommendations?


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## Christopher (9 Aug 2008)

Someone's bought that Nigel Dean frame that Bonjers refers to in post #11. I wonder who... (not me, too small, don't need but at £75 + postage it was a good deal)


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## Christopher (9 Aug 2008)

ASC, set of Navigator Pistas? Ribble and others do them, they look pretty good and have good bearings, but have no actual experince of the wheels (I got a cheap 32hh double-fixed hub and built the rear wheel on Maciv Open Sport and use whatever front wheel from the pile that suits what I am going to do).


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## bonj2 (9 Aug 2008)

kyuss said:


> That's pretty damned heavy. For comparison a pair of Halo Aerorage Track wheels will cost you £150 (£133 if you get them from Chain Reaction but they don't have stock at the moment) and they weigh in at 980gm for the front and 1045gm for the rear. Not exactly featherweight but that's a whole 1lb lighter and most of that weight loss will be at the rim where it matters most.


that's what i thought.



kyuss said:


> The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.


ok nice one, cheers - i might have a look at those.
All these ideas for make/models to look up are good to hear, thanks.

I obviously need a machined front rim for a braking surface which is the only thing I'd have to watch when looking at track rims.




kyuss said:


> I'd disagree with that. If that weight was off the frame I might agree but weight off the wheels is the one place that you really really notice the difference especially if it's at the rims.
> 
> A bit of research shows those Weinmann rims to be really really heavy. They are cheap copies of the Rigida DP18 which themselves come in at 570 each which is fairly heavy. A Mavic CXP33 for instance (which is still a fairly deep rim) is almost 100gm lighter.
> 
> I couldn't find figures on Weinmann's own site for weights but the hubs used on the Weinmann build are Formula which according to Sheldon are the same as his own brand Harris Cyclery ones coming in at 275 for the front and 330 for the rear. The weights on the Formula site seem to confirm this. Average weight of 64 DT plain gauge spokes going by info from their site is about 320gm, or 160gsm per wheel. Let's be on the safe side and call it 200gm. That means those Weinmann rims are well over 700gm each.  I wouldn't like to try and spin those up to speed.





Uncle Phil said:


> I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.
> 
> I hadn't seen the weight figures, but you're right - the difference is over a kilo, and in the rim, where it counts. I thought it was only a couple of hundred grams, which I don't think anyone would really notice, even in rims, unless they were to do a very careful side-by-side road test.
> 
> On the other hand, Bonj wanted: cheap, large-flange hubs, black, deep-section rims and radial spokes. I found him four out of five, which ain't bad - and he never said he wanted 'em light as well!



to be fair to Phil I did come over a bit confusing then move the goal posts when i said I wanted them light. I posted a thread on londonfgss and they instantly told me that "light" and "deep section" is an oxymoron. 
I just thought deep section might be nice but for no other reason than they 'look bling'. So given that light weight is more important for me really, the requirement for deep sections is somewhat out the window now... 

cheers for the advice kyuss and phil.


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## ASC1951 (9 Aug 2008)

Frustruck said:


> ASC, set of Navigator Pistas? Ribble and others do them, they look pretty good and have good bearings


Sensible price, too. Unfortunately the rims are not machined according to Ribble. 

Bonj may be able to just use his muscles but I need front and back brakes on the road.


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## kyuss (9 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.



Sorry, I didn't mean to come over all knowledgable. Just I've taken a bit of an interest in fixed wheelsets recently as I've got a cheap fixie on the way which will no doubt need the wheels changed sooner rather than later so I've been googling like mad for the last week or so.

You're right as well in saying that 100gm here or there isn't too big a deal, especially if it's for street use where a slightly heavier rim is likely to be stronger anyway. Still wouldn't touch those Weinmann's though, 700gm is just too much.

I reckon handbuilt will be the way to go especially if you really want a radial spoke pattern. Deep section and decent weight isn't impossible but will be expensive. The fakengers favourite Velocity Deep V isn't too heavy but a pair of rims alone will set you back nearly £80 so getting a build in at under £150 will be difficult. I've had my eye on some H+sons rims (scroll down a bit) which are gorgeous, lighter than Deep V and with £50 on some Formula/Ambrosio/System EX/One One hubs I reckon I can get them in at under £180 if I build them myself. Still not cheap though.

Thing is, if these are wheels for an old road frame or classic track bike then I think shallow box section rims will look better anyway and be cheaper and lighter. Deep rims on classic bikes have always looked a bit odd to me.


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## bonj2 (9 Aug 2008)

kyuss said:


> ...
> 
> The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.



kyuss - do you think the front one of those planet x track wheels will be ok for a braking surface?


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## Joe24 (9 Aug 2008)

Bonj, get that old frame, put some Velocity Deep V rims on with some high flange hubs, really narrow handlebars that are narrower then your hips, run it brakeless and just use that to get about on. Who will nick that? Bang up the paint on it aswell, make it look real cool
I personally have front and rear brakes on my fixed, there are some big hills around here and if i take it into Derbyshire even bigger. Only use the front at the moment though.


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## Amanda P (9 Aug 2008)

kyuss said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to come over all knowledgable.



No need to apologise for being knowledgeable - especially if you're willing to pass it on to us. As you evidently are.


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## bonj2 (9 Aug 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Bonj, get that old frame, put some Velocity Deep V rims on with some high flange hubs, really narrow handlebars that are narrower then your hips, run it brakeless and just use that to get about on. Who will nick that? Bang up the paint on it aswell, make it look real cool
> I personally have front and rear brakes on my fixed, there are some big hills around here and if i take it into Derbyshire even bigger. Only use the front at the moment though.



nah, not narrow handlebars. I've got wide ones on my normal road bike and i like them wide, better breathing. I'm not trying to get through micro small gaps!
I might like some like the ones on this bike though:http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/jessicadyer.jpg

i'm going to take my time on it 'cos it'll end up better that way, and half the fun is in building it!

trust me it'll look cool 

re back brake, i only ever use the front on my normal road bike, so i certainly don't see how i'm going to need a back brake on a fixed. I'm half tempted to take the back brake off my road bike - the only time i'm going to need it is if i have to do an emergency stop downhill - but then it's going to be a case of damage limitation rather than damage elimination./..


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## kyuss (9 Aug 2008)

bonj said:


> kyuss - do you think the front one of those planet x track wheels will be ok for a braking surface?



Yep. Both front and rear have a machined breaking surface. As far as I can tell they are the exact same rims that they use on their Model B and Model C road wheelsets.


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## bonj2 (9 Aug 2008)

oh right cool cheers, they're probably ideal wheels then


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## Chuffy (10 Aug 2008)

Frustruck said:


> Someone's bought that Nigel Dean frame that Bonjers refers to in post #11. I wonder who... (not me, too small, don't need but at £75 + postage it was a good deal)


Fork was on backwards anyway...


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## Chuffy (10 Aug 2008)

Remind me to come back to this thread when it moves onto gearing and sprocket choice.


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

Chuffy said:


> Remind me to come back to this thread when it moves onto gearing and sprocket choice.



that won't be an issue.


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## Amanda P (10 Aug 2008)

Go on then? Why not?


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

why will it


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## Amanda P (10 Aug 2008)

Well, just because your fixie only has one gear, that doesn't mean you don't have to choose what gear ratio it _is_.

In fact, it's much more important than on a multi-geared bike, because you can't just change up or down a gear or two as the terrain changes. Your single gear has to be a compromise that allows you to ride all the terrain you're likely to encounter, up hills and down.

If you lived in a totally flat place and were super-fit, you could have quite a high hear (90-odd inches) and be spinning along in it at 30 mph all the time.

In Sheffield, and being merely human, you'll need a rather lower gear - you'll want to be able to climb some hills with it. (60", perhaps?) You certainly don't want to be seen walking your fixie up a hill!

And worse, you have to bear in mind that you can't stop pedalling coming _down_ hills either. So if you choose, say, a 50" gear to get you up the hills, you'll be "spinning out" coming down them - that's to say you'll be riding slowly down with the brake(s) on so that your legs can keep up with the pedals.

So choice of gear is really quite critical, and probably the single point on which you should seek the most advice, preferably from those who know the terrain you'll be riding on this bike and are experienced riding it on a fixed gear.


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## ASC1951 (10 Aug 2008)

Well, it's not quite as hilly in Leeds as Sheffield, so I ride a a 46 x 17 which gives me a 74" gear; or sometimes a 46x18 (70"). I can round the Dales on that, but not the steeper stuff.

If I was younger and fitter I would go for a higher cadence and a lower gear, say something around 65".


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## Joe24 (10 Aug 2008)

Gearing is hard. Need to work out the GI, which i let someone else do. Which i think, you divide the chain-ring tooth number by the sproket, then times by 27 or something. I have 65GI. Thats good for me, and i like hills. I was out on it today on the club ride, faster then most on the hills and into headwinds i found i was able to keep my speed higher. 2 hills, one long with a headwind i felt like chucking up by the time i got to the top but carried on. The last one i do was slowish but it will get easier. If your going to do hills, go for mid 60GI was the advice i was given.
Only problem though, was when there was a tailwind and the group was doing 27mph i was spinning like mad. Ended up turning off with another guy, he was really struggling on his geared, and i just wanted to stop spinning so fast. 
The Mavric CXP33 or whatever, the rim suggested is whati have on the back of my fixed. Pretty deep really, nice looking aswell. Dont do your bike in all one colour though Bonj, or it will look bad IMO.


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## Amanda P (10 Aug 2008)

Gear inches: number of teeth on chainring divided by number of teeth on sprocket. Then multiply the answer by 27 (if you're using a 27" or 700 wheel).

Somewhere between 65 and 70 inches seems to be right for most folk.

My fixie's only ever used on the flat, but carries a load sometimes, and I'm not fast anyway, so I have 69" (46 by 18).


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> Well, just because your fixie only has one gear, that doesn't mean you don't have to choose what gear ratio it _is_.
> 
> In fact, it's much more important than on a multi-geared bike, because you can't just change up or down a gear or two as the terrain changes. Your single gear has to be a compromise that allows you to ride all the terrain you're likely to encounter, up hills and down.
> 
> ...



Well, i do live in a fairly flat place at the minute (not sheffield) so I'm thinking of starting off with something around 42x17, maybe even 42x15 (or equivalent) and seeing how that goes...
on my normal road bike, that's the same as middle ring and 4th/5th sprocket (respectively).
Judging by the fact that when i'm batting along on the flat at what is probably about 22mph i'm normally in 3rd sprocket (19), then 42x17/42x15 is probably going to be plenty fast enough and maybe give me a bit of room to get up the odd shallow hill.
When i'm living in sheffield again i'm probably going to have some experience of riding it, but it's not going to be the commuter when i'm back in sheffield so it'll probably be mainly used for just fun rides off out into the peaks, and i know sheffield quite well so will probably be able to work out a route that doesn't include any hills i won't be able to get up, either that or i'll put a bigger sprocket on then.

I'm presuming sprockets don't cost that much, so it shouldn't be much of an issue to change it if i decide i want a bigger or smaller one. And i'm presuming they just bolt straight onto the hub?


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

and how do you convert between "inches" (which i don't understand) and ratios (which I do understand) like 42x17?


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Gearing is hard. Need to work out the GI, which i let someone else do. Which i think, you divide the chain-ring tooth number by the sproket, then times by 27 or something. I have 65GI. Thats good for me, and i like hills. I was out on it today on the club ride, faster then most on the hills and into headwinds i found i was able to keep my speed higher. 2 hills, one long with a headwind i felt like chucking up by the time i got to the top but carried on. The last one i do was slowish but it will get easier. If your going to do hills, go for mid 60GI was the advice i was given.
> Only problem though, was when there was a tailwind and the group was doing 27mph i was spinning like mad. Ended up turning off with another guy, he was really struggling on his geared, and i just wanted to stop spinning so fast.
> The Mavric CXP33 or whatever, the rim suggested is whati have on the back of my fixed. Pretty deep really, nice looking aswell. Dont do your bike in all one colour though Bonj, or it will look bad IMO.



ah right, i see. I might get about 70" then i think 'cos it's fairly flat round here, then get another sprocket that gives me about low-60s when i'm back in shef.


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> Gear inches: number of teeth on chainring divided by number of teeth on sprocket. Then multiply the answer by 27 (if you're using a 27" or 700 wheel).
> 
> Somewhere between 65 and 70 inches seems to be right for most folk.
> 
> My fixie's only ever used on the flat, but carries a load sometimes, and I'm not fast anyway, so I have 69" (46 by 18).



i think i'll probably go for that exact combo to start off with for round lincolnshire


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## Joe24 (10 Aug 2008)

Go for fixed/fixed, have one sprocket on one side thats in the 70's, and a bigger sprocket on the other, works better if you have longer drop-outs. You will have to take it to a bike shop that has loads of sprokets in, and mess around to see how big you can get on the other side. 
With the gear i was in, i was going along on the flat doing about 27mph spinning, could of maybe gone up to 28/29mph if i really concentrated and span.
I think in London they run around 74GI i think.


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## Origamist (11 Aug 2008)

bonj said:


> and how do you convert between "inches" (which i don't understand) and ratios (which I do understand) like 42x17?




You can use this to work out your GI ratios:

http://software.bareknucklebrigade.com/rabbit.applet.html


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## Andy Pandy (11 Aug 2008)

Sorry to come to these discussions a bit late, but I have just upgraded my on-one track wheels to miche hubs on open pro's, as I knackered my back wheel. The miche hub is a step up from the on-one hub, IMHO. I steered away from deep v rims as they all seemed to be heavy and weak (unless you spend big bucks, and here my LBS warned me that they can be a little fragile). When commuting fixed your wheels take a lot more abuse than when on a freewheel, therefore you need a rim that will stand up to it. I don't think many of the fashion rims will do that. 

Oh, and 42x17 is a girly gear, 48x17 at least!


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## Greenbank (12 Aug 2008)

70"-75" for London commuting. Once you're used to it there will be no hills in London you can't get up with that gear.

Below that (63"-69") for hillier terrain (Bath, Bristol, Sheffield, etc).
Above that (75"+) for flatter terrain or if you prefer pushing big gears slowly.

Other than that it's all down to personal preference.

Gear Inches can be calculated using Sheldon's site:-

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Select the right tyre size/width for a more accurate Gear Inch calculation:- 46x17 on 700c x 25mm tyres = 71.4"

I use that same gear on long rides (200km+ Audaxing) through various lumpy places with not much problem.


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## Joe24 (12 Aug 2008)

Anyone know the website for calculating your cadence? I think you put in your chain ring size and sprocket size and speed and it worked it out. 
I lost the address when the bookmarks were deleted


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## Greenbank (12 Aug 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Anyone know the website for calculating your cadence? I think you put in your chain ring size and sprocket size and speed and it worked it out.
> I lost the address when the bookmarks were deleted



Sheldon's gear calculator will do that.

Put in chain ring size, sprocket size, tyre width/size and then select mph (or kph) at 100 rpm. Scale accordingly.

So 46x17 on 700c x 25mm tyres doing 100rpm is 34.2kph.

So 57.8kph (my top speed on that gear) would be 100*57.8/34.2 = 169rpm

180rpm would be 180*34.2/100 = 61.56kph.


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## kyuss (12 Aug 2008)

This one looks easier to use.

http://software.bareknucklebrigade.c...it.applet.html


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## Joe24 (12 Aug 2008)

kyuss said:


> This one looks easier to use.
> 
> http://software.bareknucklebrigade.c...it.applet.html



Cheers, thats a good site, shows where the skid patches would be aswell
I looked at the Sheldon one, but i wanted to know how fast i would need to go to be getting really high RPM's.


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## zimzum42 (17 Aug 2008)

It's good that you're thinking of coming over to the right side, but please don't get a Langster!

Get something decent!!!!!!


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## Joe24 (17 Aug 2008)

zimzum42 said:


> It's good that you're thinking of coming over to the right side, but please don't get a Langster!
> 
> Get something decent!!!!!!


+1


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## Tharg2007 (17 Aug 2008)

zimzum42 said:


> It's good that you're thinking of coming over to the right side, but please don't get a Langster!
> 
> Get something decent!!!!!!



+2
common as muck too


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