# London commuting.



## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

Count 'em...


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## KneesUp (5 May 2016)

It already doesn't look wide enough to cope with demand.


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

KneesUp said:


> It already doesn't look wide enough to cope with demand.




Indeed. Already at some junctions it's reached critical mass.
I lost count at 50 cyclists on that vid, and that's just in 35 second's of video.


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## moo (5 May 2016)

If that was real footage there'd be a huge pile-up every morning


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

I think it's a slightly different commute to what @User9609 has every morning.


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## DCLane (5 May 2016)

And I if I see up to 5 on my route into Leeds it's a busy day.


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

DCLane said:


> And I if I see up to 5 on my route into Leeds it's a busy day.




Although living and working in London, I can say the same. My commute on a SE to north route is not a busy one at all, untill I get to very near my work of when I start to see a lot more going from east to west heading into London. Though it has gotten busier as the years have gone by. 10 years ago I was lucky to see one other cycle commuter morning or evening. Now, 5 is a good number.


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

[QUOTE 4265545, member: 9609"]Very different indeed, when I see other cyclist we wave, smile and sometimes even stop to have a chat - not even the slightest hint of such pleasantries in your vid, how very rude of all of them.[/QUOTE]

Not my vid.
And for my liking, far too busy for me. It would take me an age to get to work with the sheer amount of cyclists.


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## fimm (5 May 2016)

Are those the lanes over Vauxhall Bridge (is that the right one?) that no one is using?


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

fimm said:


> Are those the lanes over Vauxhall Bridge (is that the right one?) that no one is using?




That video is of Blackfriars Bridge. But Vauxhall Bridge is just as busy.


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## Markymark (5 May 2016)

Those cars were still flowing despite roadspace being taken away. Now imagine if even 1/3 of those cyclists were in cars (the rest on public transport) how much worse the congestion would be.


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## shouldbeinbed (5 May 2016)

20 odd seconds in, is that Michael O'Leary on a grassy knoll


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

User said:


> You do sometimes have to go at the pace of the pack. The people who struggle with that, overtaking, pushing in etc are a bit of a problem.




Yup. A well known fact and plenty of vids on the web showing that.


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## Milkfloat (5 May 2016)

I wonder how long it will be before the road is so freed up that people will switch back to cars?


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## si_c (5 May 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I wonder how long it will be before the road is so freed up that people will switch back to cars?



Looks like they should have made it wider, cycling / pedestrian only bridge perhaps?


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## si_c (5 May 2016)

User said:


> We could always swap the divisions over so that the cycle lane becomes the car bit and vice versa.



 I'm pretty sure that would cause members of the LTDA to explode.


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## mjr (5 May 2016)

moo said:


> If that was real footage there'd be a huge pile-up every morning


Meh, we've some way to go yet! People on bikes are very good at using junctions efficiently, unlike motorists. We need every junction looking like this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-L-B1aH8AE


Do the junctions have countdown timers that accelerate if more cyclists arrive, like in the Netherlands?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GkCJArNfNY


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## theclaud (5 May 2016)

User said:


> I have a new weapon to stop me being that person.


Has it involved getting over yourself at all?


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## mjr (5 May 2016)

User said:


> Don't be silly.


Sorry - I think riding there this week has made me giddy


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## theclaud (5 May 2016)

User said:


> No, not really.


Some will find that disappointing.


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## theclaud (5 May 2016)

User said:


> I will do my best to try to give at least a cursory attempt at looking as though I might give a toss.


If only there were some instrument by which this might be measured.


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## Lonestar (5 May 2016)

Blimey,that is Blackfriars Bridge? I really have lost touch with that bridge with all my discoveries of new routes.The CS 2 is starting to become a nightmare now.


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## mustang1 (5 May 2016)

Next newbie to whinge that no one wants back at them, show this video.


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## cyberknight (5 May 2016)

Im lucky if i see 5 all the way to work.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Although living and working in London, I can say the same. My commute on a SE to north route is not a busy one at all, untill I get to very near my work of when I start to see a lot more going from east to west heading into London. Though it has gotten busier as the years have gone by. 10 years ago I was lucky to see one other cycle commuter morning or evening. Now, 5 is a good number.


Mind you, the road next to where you work between Deptford and Greenwich now takes a good number of cyclists. It still surprises me how many there are.


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Mind you, the road next to where you work between Deptford and Greenwich now takes a good number of cyclists. It still surprises me how many there are.




Hence my east to west comment.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Hence my east to west comment.


Not contradicting you, I was more noting my astonishment after having lived and ridden in the area for 40+ years.


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## ianrauk (5 May 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Not contradicting you, I was more noting my astonishment after having lived and ridden in the area for 40+ years.




okey doke


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## Absinthe Minded (5 May 2016)

User said:


> We could always swap the divisions over so that the cycle lane becomes the car bit and vice versa.


What a fabulous idea!


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## Specialeyes (6 May 2016)

I rode from Beckton to Oval and back on business yesterday evening, around 6.00pm and from Blackwall onwards it was heaving with cyclists - I loved it! Compared to the same 3-4 faces I see along the A127 each way it was a real pleasant change to encounter what felt, from my outside-London perspective, like a critical mass. Mind you, it was a beautiful evening. How many will still be there, with lights, in November, I wonder...


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## subaqua (6 May 2016)

Specialeyes said:


> I rode from Beckton to Oval and back on business yesterday evening, around 6.00pm and from Blackwall onwards it was heaving with cyclists - I loved it! Compared to the same 3-4 faces I see along the A127 each way it was a real pleasant change to encounter what felt, from my outside-London perspective, like a critical mass. Mind you, it was a beautiful evening. How many will still be there, with lights, in November, I wonder...


How is it on a wet n cold February evening when it's dark. Bet there only the hardcore like me n you. Which means a massive way to go for good modal share.


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## tatr (6 May 2016)

subaqua said:


> How is it on a wet n cold February evening when it's dark. Bet there only the hardcore like me n you. Which means a massive way to go for good modal share.



The Vauxhall cycle lane opened while it was still cold, and got fairly busy immediately - not like now, but I have a photo of 10+ cyclists queuing in the dark at the lights by Vauxhall station.

Most of the new infrastructure is well placed for short Station->Office commutes so it wouldn't surprise me if it gets reasonably well used all year.


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## subaqua (6 May 2016)

tatr said:


> The Vauxhall cycle lane opened while it was still cold, and got fairly busy immediately - not like now, but I have a photo of 10+ cyclists queuing in the dark at the lights by Vauxhall station.
> 
> Most of the new infrastructure is well placed for short Station->Office commutes so it wouldn't surprise me if it gets reasonably well used all year.


Good . Would be a shame for it not to be used properly . Here's to CS2 getting an upgrade to the upgrade......


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## ianrauk (7 May 2016)

The newly opened Cycle Super Highway from Tower Hill to Parliament Square


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## subaqua (7 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> The newly opened Cycle Super Highway from Tower Hill to Parliament Square




needs to be wider in places. that's going to be very busy in summer.

wonder if it will get cleaned or left like the bin that is CS2


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## ianrauk (7 May 2016)

subaqua said:


> needs to be wider in places. that's going to be very busy in summer.
> 
> wonder if it will get cleaned or left like the bin that is CS2




Indeed and indeed.
Lot's of cyclist/pedestrian conflicts in the offing too.


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## Twizit (8 May 2016)

Utterly viscous speed bumps along the embankment stretch too.


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## glenn forger (8 May 2016)

"We've changed the face of the city"

http://road.cc/content/news/188966-audio-weve-changed-face-city


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## Twizit (9 May 2016)

User said:


> Speed bumps? In a cycle Superhighway?


Yep - four of them in a stretch about 200 metres long - the platform type about 2-3m across. Two of them aren't too bad and they've put in a decently angled ramp on either side. The other two however feel near vertical and give you a right old bump up if you head over them at anything faster than a crawl.


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## mjr (9 May 2016)

Twizit said:


> The other two however feel near vertical and give you a right old bump up if you head over them at anything faster than a crawl.


Would you fault-report those for being non-sinusoidal, please? www.fixMyStreet.com perhaps.


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## Markymark (9 May 2016)

User said:


> It is useless, as far as I am concerned. There is no provision for me to make a right turn off it on my way to work, and none to make a left turn on the way home. One way I would have to go past, then use a pedestrian crossing and go back down the road. The other I would have to wait at the lights, turn right, do a u turn, and wait for the lights again.


Hang on, you work in London and don;t have an iPhone? I think I best report this to the London visa agency.


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## Twizit (9 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Would you fault-report those for being non-sinusoidal, please? www.fixMyStreet.com perhaps.


With pleasure


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## Trickedem (10 May 2016)

I used the new East West Superhighway CS3 today. Previously when I arrived at Tower Hill coming from Canary Wharf you were just spat out into heavy traffic and it was very difficult and dangerous to get to the other side if the City. 
Despite the need for some improved road marking the junction now works and with very little delay I was on the new CS3 path. It was a massive improvement and saved me a lot of time. The biggest issue is pedestrians, stepping out without looking.


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## mjr (10 May 2016)

Trickedem said:


> The biggest issue is pedestrians, stepping out without looking.


Ring the bell, call hello and try not to ride too close (I know that's easier said than done, what with how busy it seems already).


User13710 said:


> It seems there's another useless cycle superhighway in Leeds, with the same problem with leaving/joining it along the way. It looks really awful!
> http://road.cc/content/news/189110-leeds-bradford-cycle-superhighway-just-75cm-wide-places


Oh the Leeds-Bradford one is a whole other scale of crap. It mainly seems to be one of the bad old cycle tracks which so many of us have worked to discourage, just made longer. Leeds and Bradford don't seem willing to take the same sort of firm line that London has - it seems they won't restrict side road turnings to make crossings safer, they won't align those crossings properly and most importantly, they won't reallocate enough carriageway width.


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## jefmcg (10 May 2016)

User said:


> It is useless, as far as I am concerned. There is no provision for me to make a right turn off it on my way to work, and none to make a left turn on the way home. One way I would have to go past, then use a pedestrian crossing and go back down the road. The other I would have to wait at the lights, turn right, do a u turn, and wait for the lights again.


Can I suggest it's not for you, then? I have had commutes that needed to pass through the city (West London to Canary Wharf or Brick Lane) and there was no good option for getting through the city. I'm glad they have built a route for those commuters. The last km of a commute will always be slower, unless you are very lucky to have a fast route to the door of your office. The slow down through London nearly made cycling to CW impractical, except that other transport options were unreliable, so I stuck with it.


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## mjr (10 May 2016)

User said:


> It is useless, as far as I am concerned. There is no provision for me to make a right turn off it on my way to work, and none to make a left turn on the way home.


Are motorways also always useless to you if there's not junctions exactly at your starting point and destination?


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## Trickedem (10 May 2016)

And a big well done (Not) to Greenwich and Tower Hamlets council for spending money on illuminated no cycling signs in the Woolwich Foot Tunnel. Hardly any pedestrians use this and there is a lot of shared use pavements that have less room. It would have been better to change the bylaws to allow cycling.


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## ianrauk (10 May 2016)

Trickedem said:


> And a big well done (Not) to Greenwich and Tower Hamlets council for spending money on illuminated no cycling signs in the Woolwich Foot Tunnel. Hardly any pedestrians use this and there is a lot of shared use pavements that have less room. It would have been better to change the bylaws to allow cycling.




When ever I have been through there I don't think I have ever seen another ped.


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## ianrauk (10 May 2016)

Gaz has made a video of the new cycle super highway


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## Glow worm (10 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Gaz has made a video of the new cycle super highway




Looks great. Seems a much more efficient use of roadspace in terms of numbers- i.e. Thousands of cyclists instead of loads of queuing single occupancy and polluting cars.

I have to go to London on Friday and will be taking the bike - might have to have a bit of a go on that!


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## tatr (10 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> When ever I have been through there I don't think I have ever seen another ped.



Sounds like it is broken then - per Wikipedia the signs are supposed to use computer vision to permit cycling when quiet which seems fair enough.

"The system has also been installed in the Greenwich foot tunnel and aims to make urban shared spaces safer and more pleasant to use for all. The system displays two messages - "No cycling allowed" (in red text) during busy periods, and "Please consider pedestrians" (in green text) during quiet periods."


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## Cuchilo (10 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Gaz has made a video of the new cycle super highway



Looks great ! I might go for a ride on Sunday to take a peek .


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## Trickedem (10 May 2016)

tatr said:


> Sounds like it is broken then - per Wikipedia the signs are supposed to use computer vision to permit cycling when quiet which seems fair enough.
> 
> "The system has also been installed in the Greenwich foot tunnel and aims to make urban shared spaces safer and more pleasant to use for all. The system displays two messages - "No cycling allowed" (in red text) during busy periods, and "Please consider pedestrians" (in green text) during quiet periods."


Thanks for explaining that. I apologise to the council's concerned. Only saw 1 pedestrian today at about 8am, so it isn't working though


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## tatr (11 May 2016)

Could be worth a complaint? With times & pedestrian #s observed.

Councils don't proactively fix things! Too much broken stuff and not enough resources. They only get around to repairs when it is less work than dealing with the comments.

Sounds bad but I suppose it does prioritise things people care about.


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## markharry66 (11 May 2016)

Trickedem said:


> And a big well done (Not) to Greenwich and Tower Hamlets council for spending money on illuminated no cycling signs in the Woolwich Foot Tunnel. Hardly any pedestrians use this and there is a lot of shared use pavements that have less room. It would have been better to change the bylaws to allow cycling.


I used that tunnel for three years day in day out. Cycling through it is not safe. In evenings and early mornings it used to get busy. Might have possibly changed as i know they shut north woolwiich station down.


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## ianrauk (11 May 2016)

markharry66 said:


> I used that tunnel for three years day in day out. Cycling through it is not safe. In evenings and early mornings it used to get busy. Might have possibly changed as i know they shut north woolwiich station down.




It was closed for a few years for refurbishment. I don't think they've actually made people aware that it is open again.


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## Trickedem (11 May 2016)

markharry66 said:


> I used that tunnel for three years day in day out. Cycling through it is not safe. In evenings and early mornings it used to get busy. Might have possibly changed as i know they shut north woolwiich station down.


It is perfectly safe for cycling through as it so seldom used by pedestrians. I think as you say, that the closure of North Woolwich and the introduction of the DLR to Woolwich has removed the need.
I think the restrictions were introduced several years ago when the Docks were busy, but they're not relevant now.
The Greenwich Tunnel is a different proposition and is normally busy with pedestrians. Particularly tourist traffic and people commuting to Canary Wharf


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## Lonestar (11 May 2016)

Trickedem said:


> I used the new East West Superhighway CS3 today. Previously when I arrived at Tower Hill coming from Canary Wharf you were just spat out into heavy traffic and it was very difficult and dangerous to get to the other side if the City.
> Despite the need for some improved road marking the junction now works and with very little delay I was on the new CS3 path. It was a massive improvement and saved me a lot of time. The biggest issue is pedestrians, stepping out without looking.



Lot of tourists there so not really a problem for me although your statement could be apply to any CS.I don't like the CS 3 from Limehouse to Tower Gateway much,spend ages waiting at 7? sets of lights and sometimes they don't change anyway.May come into the CS 3 later meaning I will use more of the Commercial Road.


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## srw (12 May 2016)

User said:


> It is useless, as far as I am concerned. There is no provision for me to make a right turn off it on my way to work, and none to make a left turn on the way home. One way I would have to go past, then use a pedestrian crossing and go back down the road. The other I would have to wait at the lights, turn right, do a u turn, and wait for the lights again.


Or hop off and walk...


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## srw (12 May 2016)

Can I just say that I was wrong about CS3? I thought it would be horrible. In fact it's mostly very well thought out, and a pleasure to ride. The exception is the bit around parliament square coming from Buck House, where there's a pointless bit of shoving you to the right. 

The "speed bumps" are level pedestrian access to bus stops, and so actually quite radical in reminding cyclists that they're not at the bottom of the pyramid.

Oh, and the signposting isn't finished.


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## srw (12 May 2016)

srw said:


> Can I just say that I was wrong about CS3? I thought it would be horrible. In fact it's mostly very well thought out, and a pleasure to ride. The exception is the bit around parliament square coming from Buck House, where there's a pointless bit of shoving you to the right.
> 
> The "speed bumps" are level pedestrian access to bus stops, and so actually quite radical in reminding cyclists that they're not at the bottom of the pyramid.
> 
> Oh, and the signposting isn't finished.


I have three main foci in London. Marylebone and Waterloo stations and Gracechurch Street. 

I rode this evening from the City to Westminster Bridge (for Waterloo) without stopping at a red light. That is a record. It's because the only red lights are pedestrian crossings.


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## jefmcg (12 May 2016)

srw said:


> I rode this evening from the City to Westminster Bridge (for Waterloo) without stopping at a red light. That is a record. It's because the only red lights are pedestrian crossings.


no no no NO! You have to stop at red lights!!

(yeah, i get it. Sorry  )


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Lot of tourists there so not really a problem for me although your statement could be apply to any CS.I don't like the CS 3 from Limehouse to Tower Gateway much,spend ages waiting at 7? sets of lights and sometimes they don't change anyway.May come into the CS 3 later meaning I will use more of the Commercial Road.


Off topic but Commercial Road might be a bit snarled up due to roadworks. I think the TfL travel information email said it was down to one lane each way. Mind, I only remembered that because the lane closures start at Batty St (Rd?) and I thought that's a daft name for a street.


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2016)

User said:


> Imagine if Riley King had lived there, he would have had to be Batty Boy King.


And I think we'd get a good idea about someone described as living up Batty Street.


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## srw (13 May 2016)

User said:


> In the category "cyclist I know who is least likely to jump a red light" the award goes to............


Actually I _very nearly did._ But then I'd had a few beers.


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## Lonestar (13 May 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Off topic but Commercial Road might be a bit snarled up due to roadworks. I think the TfL travel information email said it was down to one lane each way. Mind, I only remembered that because the lane closures start at Batty St (Rd?) and I thought that's a daft name for a street.



It's not as many as seven and I'm getting used to the CS 3....One of the lights has a push button which I never noticed before.Probably explains why I waited there so long.They aren't all like that though....The CS 3 is too narrow for two way.IMHO.I'm trying to keep off the Commercial Road.Found White Horse Road which connects with the back of the church.


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## J1888 (16 May 2016)

I don't like the Farringdon Blackfriars Bridge one


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## tatr (17 May 2016)

J1888 said:


> I don't like the Farringdon Blackfriars Bridge one



The NS highway is a bit pointless North of Blackfriars Bridge but only because it was cut short early - if it took you all the way to Kings Cross as planned it would be great.

That extension might still be on the cards if the new mayor doesn't kill it - the consultation closed recently. Details on route at http://www.cyclescape.org/issues/2045-north-south-cycle-superhighway-extension-to-kings-cross

Going South from the bridge is really nice! That bit of road used to be quite unpleasant to cycle on but now it is very fast.


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## booze and cake (17 May 2016)

tatr said:


> The NS highway is a bit pointless North of Blackfriars Bridge but only because it was cut short early - if it took you all the way to Kings Cross as planned it would be great.
> 
> That extension might still be on the cards if the new mayor doesn't kill it - the consultation closed recently. Details on route at http://www.cyclescape.org/issues/2045-north-south-cycle-superhighway-extension-to-kings-cross
> 
> Going South from the bridge is really nice! That bit of road used to be quite unpleasant to cycle on but now it is very fast.



Agreed, coming southbound past the Smithfield Mkt turn that road was so cratered it was like riding through a rock garden before, now its nice and smooth but we have new hazards to contend with....the day before yesterday I was coming south on that section approaching the fleet st/ludgate hill crossroads, when I had to pull over because a Nissan Micra was driving up the segregated lane towards me. I frantically waved at him and yelled out 'this is a cycle lane' or words to that effect but fruitier. The signage does need improving if they are going to stop this sort of thing.


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## tatr (17 May 2016)

Here are the plans for the EW extension to Acton https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/cycling/east-west-phase-2/

Looks good as far as Wood Lane, but then it devolves into a bit of a shared use mess to Acton.


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## jonny jeez (18 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> The newly opened Cycle Super Highway from Tower Hill to Parliament Square



I shall try that tomorrow, it'll give me an excuse to ride over tower bridge.


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## jonny jeez (18 May 2016)

User said:


> It is useless, as far as I am concerned. There is no provision for me to make a right turn off it on my way to work, and none to make a left turn on the way home. One way I would have to go past, then use a pedestrian crossing and go back down the road. The other I would have to wait at the lights, turn right, do a u turn, and wait for the lights again.


there seem to be entrance and exit ramps at every junction or road, where are you trying to turn and how did you do so before the highway thing was there.

I'm interested not disputing.


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## jonny jeez (18 May 2016)

Twizit said:


> Yep - four of them in a stretch about 200 metres long - the platform type about 2-3m across. Two of them aren't too bad and they've put in a decently angled ramp on either side. The other two however feel near vertical and give you a right old bump up if you head over them at anything faster than a crawl.


are they speed humps or raised sections for pedestrians to cross?


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## jonny jeez (18 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Gaz has made a video of the new cycle super highway



was that a ped or a rider lying in the road at embankment?


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## ianrauk (18 May 2016)

New video from @gaz

Is the Stockwell cycle lane big enough to deal with the volume of cyclists?


Already it looks like some cyclists are preferring to use the roads rather then the lane.


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## subaqua (18 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> New video from @gaz
> 
> Is the Stockwell cycle lane big enough to deal with the volume of cyclists?
> 
> ...




thats happening at whitechapel too. with all the usual taxi driver abuse about " one lane not enough for you lot"


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## ianrauk (18 May 2016)

subaqua said:


> thats happening at whitechapel too. with all the usual taxi driver abuse about " one lane not enough for you lot"




This is what I feared.


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## mjr (18 May 2016)

subaqua said:


> thats happening at whitechapel too. with all the usual taxi driver abuse about " one lane not enough for you lot"


Meh. Some motorists tell you to get in the lane/on the track even when there isn't one. Just shout back "are motorways not enough for you' type stuff.


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## subaqua (18 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Meh. Some motorists tell you to get in the lane/on the track even when there isn't one. Just shout back "are motorways not enough for you' type stuff.


Yeah really helpful .thats going to stop the tweets driving into the side of me. Are you in the LCC ? 

Although to be fair an uber did drive into the side of me in a non separated area. Not that segregation stops taxis or cars .


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## mstrmind5 (18 May 2016)

Are the plans for the Woolwich-London Bridge highway still going ahead?


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## cyberknight (19 May 2016)

I had a hazard this morning i would put money on you london commuters dont have to deal with , i was nearly knocked off by a small flock of sheep that had escaped through a hedge and were grazing on the edge of the road and even though i slowed right down and went to the far side of the road the stupid beggars decided to run right in front of me !


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## Markymark (19 May 2016)

cyberknight said:


> I had a hazard this morning i would put money on you london commuters dont have to deal with , i was nearly knocked off by a small flock of sheep that had escaped through a hedge and were grazing on the edge of the road and even though i slowed right down and went to the far side of the road the stupid beggars decided to run right in front of me !


No but we do have to deal with cyclists from south London which is not dissimilar.


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## jonny jeez (19 May 2016)

User said:


> Where I turn right, there is no ramp at all. What I did before was use the right turn box, the one that is still there.


Ah. Well if it helps (I know it won't) it took me three minutes to ride from tower bridge to canon street today...super fast and green lights all the way (where the cars were held on red).

Its such an odd system that is pure genius in parts and utter stupidity in others. The elephant and castle fiasco being the latter.

Also, there was no intuitive and obvious way to join the highway from the south side of tower bridge, you seem to have to cross a few crossings and jump a kerb.

I am not a fan of segregation and worry where it will lead but this is a pretty good stab .


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## ianrauk (26 May 2016)

From RoadCC

*1,200 cyclists PER HOUR using new cycle superhighway*

People on bikes now outnumber other vehicles on two of London's new Cycle Superhighway routes, just weeks after they opened...

Cyclists now outnumber all other vehicles on London’s new East-West and North-South Cycle Superhighway routes, just weeks after their opening, according to initial observations.

Ahead of formal counts, around 1,200 cyclists have been observed using the brand new East-West Cycle Superhighway in the morning and evening peaks, just three weeks after it opened – more than using the same roads by motor vehicle, according to Transport for London. On the North-South route cycles also outnumber other vehicles crossing Blackfriars Bridge.

The news comes a week after Sadiq Khan’s office confirmed the Western extension of the E-W route is under review where it is proposed to cross the Westway flyover, reportedly in response to concerns raised by Westfield Shopping Centre about shoppers in cars potentially suffering delays in traffic jams.

At the London Cycling Awards on Friday London’s Cycling Commissioner said the routes are already proving they were worth the at times tough battle against opponents concerned about journey times for motor traffic.

He said: “Already there are more people using the East-West Cycle Superhighway in rush hour than there are [motor] vehicles. It’s already making a case and showing objections to be unfounded.”

“Don’t underestimate for a moment just how difficult it has been,” he said, urging Sadiq Khan to keep going with the cycling programme and not to pause, saying "time is your enemy" where cycling infrastructure was concerned.

The new three mile East-West Cycle Superhighway runs from Tower Hill to Parliament Square, while the North-South route runs from St George’s Circus to Farringdon, via Blackfriars Bridge, where the two routes meet. The N-S route will also be extended, North to Kings Cross St Pancras station.

In response to complaints on Twitter some cyclists were riding on the carriageway, TfL said: “Initial observations on new Cycle Superhighway routes show good compliance from all road users: cyclists, pedestrians and vehicles.”


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## theclaud (26 May 2016)

ianrauk said:


> In response to complaints on Twitter some cyclists were riding on the carriageway, TfL said: “Initial observations on new Cycle Superhighway routes show good compliance from all road users: cyclists, pedestrians and vehicles.”


Compliance with what?


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## theclaud (26 May 2016)

Oops TMN to TMN!


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## ianrauk (26 May 2016)

Compliance.

Giving motorists the excuse to shout at cyclists if they don't use the lanes.


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## srw (26 May 2016)

To be fair to Nigel (the TfL twitter chap), he seems to be a decent sort, and also tweeted this:


*TfL TPHVerified account*‏@TfLTPH
.@golding5001 Nigel: It's not practical nor desirable to ban cyclists from the main carriageway. On established routes over 95% use tracks.

https://twitter.com/TfLTPH/status/735498492139966464

Someone with a more active twitter presence than me might like to point out that "Compliance" was a poor choice of words.


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## mjr (27 May 2016)

User said:


> Having said that, I have just seen a fire engine driven on the Superhighway up Tower Hill which, compared to being stuck in a queue seems a pretty smart move.


Indeed. I thought that is part of the reason why the tracks are the width they are and (unlike most of England) were built on a proper base that should take the weight. The maximum width of a fire appliance is 2.55 metres, excluding wing mirrors.


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## Twizit (31 May 2016)

Just picking up again on the speed bumps along the Embankment stretch... after having noted their vicious and steep nature on "fixmystreet" I received the following:

Dear Mr XXXX

Thank you for your query regarding the speed tables on Victoria Embankment as part of East-West Cycle Superhighway. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to make us aware of this matter.

These raised tables have been installed at bus stop bypasses, where they are designed to slow cyclists on the approach to designated pedestrian crossing points. In some instances, these have been installed with too steep a gradient. We are actively working to address this, and hope to rectify the issue soon. As an interim measure, we have installed signage at all raised tables to alert cyclists to their presence.

I’m very sorry for the inconvenience caused by this.

Thanks again for contacting us. If there is anything else we can help you with, please reply to this email. Alternatively, you can speak to one of our Customer Service Advisers on XXXXX, who’ll be happy to help you.

Kind regards

Customer Service Adviser
*Transport for London Customer Services

*
Amazed I even got a response, and nice to know they have been noted and are going to do something about it. Be interested to see how long it takes....


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## tatr (31 May 2016)

They are pretty interesting on fixed for sure. I have to slow down to about 10mph...

...which is possibly the whole point? If they reprofile them not sure they'll actually slow anyone down. Normal car speedbumps can be handled at 25mph+ which is a bit fast for a ped crossing really.


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## booze and cake (31 May 2016)

I did the embankment one on my full suss mountain bike last week and the ramps make great table tops/jumps, awesome fun.


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## Lonestar (31 May 2016)

booze and cake said:


> Agreed, coming southbound past the Smithfield Mkt turn that road was so cratered it was like riding through a rock garden before, now its nice and smooth but we have new hazards to contend with....the day before yesterday I was coming south on that section approaching the fleet st/ludgate hill crossroads, when I had to pull over because a Nissan Micra was driving up the segregated lane towards me. I frantically waved at him and yelled out 'this is a cycle lane' or words to that effect but fruitier. The signage does need improving if they are going to stop this sort of thing.



Looks like plod has a problem with this as it happened to me on my return commute on the east to west route going east.Two cars were in there stopped at the cyclists lights and probably for the first time ever a plod car was nearby to sort it out.My workmate told me it's happened to him so it's quite common really.I also saw a car cut onto the CS 3 to jump the lights recently.

I now avoid batty road/backchurch lane and come onto the CS 3 at Caroline Street and back via the lights and White Horse Road.

I was lucky I didn't come off on that large bump on the Embankment as I took it at speed on the fixie when I was being drafted by the cyclist in front and didn't see it till late and had to take it and not panic.I didn't take it at no 10 m.p.h.

Lots of runners in and out during the dinner time hours I notice...running everywhere and yet another hazard.


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## mjr (1 Jun 2016)

tatr said:


> They are pretty interesting on fixed for sure. I have to slow down to about 10mph...
> 
> ...which is possibly the whole point? If they reprofile them not sure they'll actually slow anyone down. Normal car speedbumps can be handled at 25mph+ which is a bit fast for a ped crossing really.


I don't know how nice your speedbumps are or how flexy your bike is, but I certainly can't take most of them at anything faster than 10mph without risking my tyres or bum!

I thought the point of the raised tables were simply to provide a level crossing for walkers. If it's to slow cyclists down then the Dutch solution seems to be to build _two_ speed bumps slightly closer together than most bicycle wheels are. They're pretty rare as the Dutch authorities seem to rely on simple paint and people not being dicks for pedestrian and minor road crossings, rather than deliberately making cycling difficult, while they rely on lights (with approach detectors) for bigger road crossings, so I could only remember the location of this inverse one but it has a similar effect.


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## tatr (1 Jun 2016)

mjray said:


> They're pretty rare as the Dutch authorities seem to rely on simple paint and people not being dicks for pedestrian and minor road crossings,



Well, that's not going to happen in London anytime soon is it :-) It is a city full of Very Important People going to Very Important Places at Very High Speed and god damn your eyes if you get in the way.

Peds, cyclists and motorists are all equally guilty.


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## markharry66 (2 Jun 2016)

mjray said:


> I don't know how nice your speedbumps are or how flexy your bike is, but I certainly can't take most of them at anything faster than 10mph without risking my tyres or bum!
> 
> I thought the point of the raised tables were simply to provide a level crossing for walkers. If it's to slow cyclists down then the Dutch solution seems to be to build _two_ speed bumps slightly closer together than most bicycle wheels are. They're pretty rare as the Dutch authorities seem to rely on simple paint and people not being dicks for pedestrian and minor road crossings, rather than deliberately making cycling difficult, while they rely on lights (with approach detectors) for bigger road crossings, so I could only remember the location of this inverse one but it has a similar effect.



Yep this the uk you have to contend with. Using a shared cycle path is beyond some peds. Even with great big bike signs in the middle of the path and a different color for the cycle lane you still get them walking in them.


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## growingvegetables (9 Jun 2016)

Interesting idea? Or dead in the water?

http://road.cc/content/news/192776-video-airbag-helmet-firm-launches-safety-app-london-cyclists

and the online map collating the beeps - http://giveabeep.org/#explore-the-map


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## subaqua (9 Jun 2016)

growingvegetables said:


> Interesting idea? Or dead in the water?
> 
> http://road.cc/content/news/192776-video-airbag-helmet-firm-launches-safety-app-london-cyclists
> 
> and the online map collating the beeps - http://giveabeep.org/#explore-the-map



That's like putting a fat bloke in charge of pies


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## jefmcg (9 Jun 2016)

growingvegetables said:


> Interesting idea? Or dead in the water?
> 
> http://road.cc/content/news/192776-video-airbag-helmet-firm-launches-safety-app-london-cyclists
> 
> and the online map collating the beeps - http://giveabeep.org/#explore-the-map


Sat through the video until it got to the bit which says "the bicycle bell has been saving your life since 1877"

I can't easily imagine a circumstance where it could save your life.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Sat through the video until it got to the bit which says "the bicycle bell has been saving your life since 1877"
> 
> I can't easily imagine a circumstance where it could save your life.


You fall down an open manhole and use it to attract someone's attention before you starve? 

Hovding have repeatedly shown no clue about either safety or cycling promotion and this is the latest example, although they seem good at clickbait self-promotion.


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## Lonestar (9 Jun 2016)

Lorry last night,Bow roundabout (Stratford direction).It stopped in the advanced.So I stick behind it (on the left in view of his left hand mirror)but absolutely no signal at all so the only time I knew he was going left was when he actually turned left.Must have seen my lights in his mirror but probably too busy fiddling with his phone.Joker.

Feel a bit vulnerable when they do that because I don't know what some joker behind me is going to do.Not the first time I've seen cars on the East West route cycle lane coupled with joggers and everybody else.I'm sure I wouldn't faff about like that as I want a quiet life.

Cyclist in front of me on East - West route rang his bell yesterday for a jogger which was a waste of time as jogger had headphones in.I'm sick and tired of that crap may just go over Southwark Bridge instead of using the Victoria Embankment to Westminster.


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## topcat1 (9 Jun 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> Also, there was no intuitive and obvious way to join the highway from the south side of tower bridge, you seem to have to cross a few crossings and jump a kerb.
> .


Crossing Tower Bridge south to north to join the highway continue straight ahead and turn left at Shorter st, there is a gap just on the turn that puts you onto the highway.


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## Lonestar (26 Jun 2016)

On yesterday's commute crossing onto Commercial Road yesterday from the B121 to get to Caroline street a car signals right then goes left then the second car overtakes to throw a left also and cuts me off.Get onto CS 3 .I've got into Shorter Street and there is a car in the enclosed cycle lane reversing which I thought was very clever.Taken the wrong turning and ignored the no entry sign.I thought it would have just been better to just proceed forward and do a right into the Tower Gateway one way system.Then with me cycling down down a sidestreet near Waterloo I see so guy with his missus? photographing his Rolls.Must say I was impressed.(not) Best bit of penis enlargement which doesn't require surgery.

Coming back where the CS 3 is usually grief on the late Saturday night commute I overtake a cyclist who is happily looking at his phone.Not impressed.Apart from that it was mainly quiet not the usual bandit country stuff..


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## Lonestar (28 Jun 2016)

Should miss the CS 3 red light jumping peloton as I'm earlier on today unlike yesterday.


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## Wolf616 (8 Jul 2016)

I don't know what technicians they have keeping the lifts in the Greenwich Foot Tunnel in order but they need replacing. Hardest bit of the commute is lugging my bike up those bastard stairs


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## ianrauk (8 Jul 2016)

Wolf616 said:


> I don't know what technicians they have keeping the lifts in the Greenwich Foot Tunnel in order but they need replacing. Hardest bit of the commute is lugging my bike up those bastard stairs


Wasn't it only a few years ago they were upgraded/replaced?


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## Wolf616 (11 Jul 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Wasn't it only a few years ago they were upgraded/replaced?



I've no idea, I've only been commuting in London for ~1 year. Either way, they break down far too often (and get repaired far too slowly). At least install a bicycle stair lift for those of us who are weaklings, please!


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## ianrauk (11 Jul 2016)

Wolf616 said:


> I've no idea, I've only been commuting in London for ~1 year. Either way, they break down far too often (and get repaired far too slowly). At least install a bicycle stair lift for those of us who are weaklings, please!




They used to be manned lifts. The people that manned them were a fairly friendly, jolly sort. Happy to chat. But the lifts were very old.


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## ianrauk (11 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Not always. I have seen one of them tell a cyclist that he couldn't use the lift because he had ridden through the tunnel, and that he would see him upstairs once he had carried his bike up.




That's why I said 'fairly'


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## Wolf616 (12 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Not always. I have seen one of them tell a cyclist that he couldn't use the lift because he had ridden through the tunnel, and that he would see him upstairs once he had carried his bike up.



That makes me like the lift wo/man even more, to be honest


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## Lonestar (12 Jul 2016)

Tower gateway traffic lights don't seem to work at silly 'o'clock at the end of Shorter street in the westerly direction.Had to walk across yet again after waiting ages for them to change.Only saw two cyclists on the inward commute of approx ten miles.Missed the 50 other ninja cyclists I guess.Went the longer way via Westminster which I avoid during the day as it's either too busy or there are too many joggers everywhere....

Squeezing inside to get tot he cycle lane on Southwark Bridge clot of a coach driver decides to open his right hand plug door into the traffic (by pressing a button on his dash) cutting down my space and forcing me to stop suddenly and I wasn't too amused.Would guess he didn't think of looking in his mirror.Managed to get onto the cycle lane after that.After Bow low level stuck behind lorry which hasn't moved after lights have changed (mobile phone distraction?) but decide against going on the inside.Doubted he was going left but couldn't be sure.As it was he then signaled and did a left turn (reckon he saw me in his mirror).Good stuff but he should have already have been gone before I got there instead of faffing about.


Also additional.

The road layout at Tower Gateway/Shorter Street seems to be a very poor layout of which the motorised vehicles cannot get used to.Also numerous U turns from traffic coming from the Tower Bridge direction.Cars going into Shorter Street bus lane or the cycle lane herein.

@Shaun could you let this thread rise as I think it could be quite a useful thread.Cheers.


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## Lonestar (13 Jul 2016)

Tower Gateway Shorter Street...The lights stick at red between 1am and 5am and change rarely...On the return three cars came into Shorter Street as I came from the westerly direction so watch out folks.Mistakes are common there.

Red light jumper from the east jumped the lights quite smugly at Cannon Street Road junction he was on the CS 3...not seeing the black bimmer wanting to throw a right there but Mr Bimmer driver was a good'un and patient so no problem.(On the return)

(Look up Bimmer if you are not sure what it is)


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## Lonestar (18 Jul 2016)

Nice to see this thread die.Nice one.


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## ianrauk (18 Jul 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Nice to see this thread die.Nice one.




I only really started it to highlight the new supposed Cycle Super highways.

Most London commuters post in the Commuting thread.


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## DrLex (23 Jul 2016)

Or in the long-running SCR thread on BR (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=40012)


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## Lonestar (24 Jul 2016)

DrLex said:


> Or in the long-running SCR thread on BR (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=40012)



Interesting.I've thought about a fixie with disk brakes.Also car in bike lane at Shorter Street yet again plus van coming from Cannon Bridge direction in cycle lane going at a rate of knots (to my astonishment) before it met a not amused cyclist coming the other way.I was standing at the cycle lights on the pavement waiting to cross onto Southwark Bridge @ 0815 on the inward commute.It eventually got back on the road but surely the driver should have realised much earlier.Not that there was a jam or anything.


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## markharry66 (26 Jul 2016)

Lifts to both Tunnels were replaced back in 2010 so they are exactly 6 years old. I have been using the foot tunnel at woolwich for about 20 odd years.
Prior to the change of lifts they would break down on a regular basis. Since the change and improvement they now breakdown on a regular basis thats progress for you. Only difference now is they do not have to employ someone to man the lifts.
I hear they are looking at a new system in the foot tunnels to warn cyclists to get off their bike. Perhaps investment should have been used on the lifts instead....


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## Brains (26 Jul 2016)

markharry66 said:


> I hear they are looking at a new system in the foot tunnels to warn cyclists to get off their bike. Perhaps investment should have been used on the lifts instead....



Or perhaps finish off the tunnels as originally designed, which was to have a gentle slope at either end, and therefore no need for lifts at all.

With the Greenwich one, this would still be fairly easily possible, as both north and south the original run outs still exist.
With the Woolwich one you would need a 90 degree bend on either end to bring the slope out parallel with the river.

You could then tun them really into cycle tunnels, like they have under the Tyne at Newcastle


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## markharry66 (27 Jul 2016)

Chances of that happening 0.


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Jul 2016)

markharry66 said:


> I hear they are looking at a new system in the foot tunnels to warn cyclists to get off their bike. Perhaps investment should have been used on the lifts instead....


I heard from a couple of cycletrainer.uk ride leaders that the powers that be were considering allowing considerate cycling during off peak periods for a trial period. I did notice a couple of weeks ago that the electronic signs which usually read out ''No cycling'' had wording similar to ''Be considerate to pedestrians.'' Though perhaps that was a pre-trial period trial....


User said:


> Where would they come out?


There's free surface space provided the ramp doesn't continue straight on. A little trickier at the Greenwich end I'd imagine because it might threaten a few underground car parking spaces.


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## markharry66 (27 Jul 2016)

I think to be honest given the length of the tunnels and the time taken to walk it cant see it ever being removed.
To be honest really not to much hassle to walk the length of the tunnel.
Peds should come first in a shared space.


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Jul 2016)

On an unrelated London theme: I just cycled from Deptford to Waterloo and hit only 1 red light. (On that oddity Quietway 1* and a green bike.) 

*Which is pretty smooth and surprisingly direct. Unfortunately, it's likely to be the only decent Quietway built. Too many uncooperative London councils....


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## ianrauk (27 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> On an unrelated London theme: I just cycled from Deptford to Waterloo and hit only 1 red light. (On that oddity Quietway 1* and a green bike.)
> 
> *Which is pretty smooth and surprisingly direct. Unfortunately, it's likely to be the only decent Quietway built. Too many uncooperative London councils....




Isn't it a bit 'higgledy piggledy'?


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Jul 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Isn't it a bit 'higgledy piggledy'?


Not as indirect as you might expect. And relatively few junction stops. When you next go up in the direction of Westminster (it stops at the southern end of Westminster Bridge) give it a try.


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## ianrauk (27 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Not as indirect as you might expect. And relatively few junction stops. When you next go up in the direction of Westminster (it stops at the southern end of Westminster Bridge) give it a try.




May do, even though it's not really designed for the likes of me. It is well signed too which I was surprised about.


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## mjr (27 Jul 2016)

markharry66 said:


> I think to be honest given the length of the tunnels and the time taken to walk it cant see it ever being removed.
> To be honest really not to much hassle to walk the length of the tunnel.
> Peds should come first in a shared space.


They should close the Rotherhithe tunnel to motorists. It wasn't designed for them, it's dangerous for them (see the number of warning/restriction signs on the approaches!) and the Blackwall tunnel and Tower Bridge aren't too far away if one's motorised. I can dream...


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## Brains (27 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Where would they come out?


On the south side next to the Gypsy Moth pub, (next to Greenwich Maritime DLR station) and on the north side, opposite the Island Gardens DLR station

It would have been a fairly simple cut and cover build when they were putting in the DLR tunnel about 7 years ago, it would have cost a bit more, but in the long term saved money and of course massively increased usage of both the stations and the foot tunnel, which may have been the reason for not doing it at the time, as by now they would be under pressure for another foot/cycle tunnel


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## Brains (27 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> They should close the Rotherhithe tunnel to motorists. It wasn't designed for them, it's dangerous for them (see the number of warning/restriction signs on the approaches!) and the Blackwall tunnel and Tower Bridge aren't too far away if one's motorised. I can dream...



Tower Bridge was designed for horse and carts, which is why it has a very gentle rise and fall (good for bikes!)
The Old (now northbound) Blackwall tunnel was designed for trams with pedestrians on a walkway on the side
Neither were designed for, nor are suitable for, motorised vehicles.

It would be far more logical to change Tower Bridge to be pedestrians, cycles, motorbikes and possibly buses and/or taxis
Then to make the old Blackwall tunnel a loop of the DLR between Stratford and Charlton - the rail already exists (ideally with bikes permitted on the trains through the tunnel) 

Then to employ a team of tunnel builders for a 20-30 year period and start by building a tunnel to replace Tower Bridge (300m downstream), and then build 7-10 further double tunnels every couple of miles all the way to Dartford 
Who pays for all of this ? the Tunnel Toll does. 
The Dartford Tunnels and the Dartford Bridge are both tolled, and both paid back within 25 years of opening and now run at a considerable profit


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## Lonestar (27 Jul 2016)

Agree about Tower Bridge...Rarely use it....Had a spell of using it in the rush hour but found better alternatives.Only use it on my very early 3am/4am commutes.Sometimes.


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## Kominic (1 Aug 2016)

London commuters, generally speaking, do the rest of the cycling community a dis-service. 

Just this morning at Liverpool Street, red light, stationary lorry in main lane and idiots just cycle through at full speed, nearly hitting a crossing pedestrian. I've seen this (amongst multiple other infractions) enough to determine this is normal in London. It's not where I live.


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## subaqua (1 Aug 2016)

Kominic said:


> London commuters, generally speaking, do the rest of the cycling community a dis-service.
> 
> Just this morning at Liverpool Street, red light, stationary lorry in main lane and idiots just cycle through at full speed, nearly hitting a crossing pedestrian. I've seen this (amongst multiple other infractions) enough to determine this is normal in London. It's not where I live.



nope it just seems normal when a few do it. 

there is the odd nobber granted, but it is most certainly not "normal" .


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2016)

Brains said:


> You could then tun them really into cycle tunnels, like they have under the Tyne at Newcastle



Our northern correspondent writes:

Refurbishment of the Tyne cycle and pedestrian tunnel has been beset with problems, contractor going bust, more asbestos to remove than first thought.

Looks like the latest reopening date is spring 2018, although no-one's holding their breath up here.

The closure is no more than an occasional nuisance for me as a leisure cyclist, although it's bound to have wiped out a lot of commute and utility journeys.

The alternatives are the ferry at South Shields which has a bike number limit, or the Gateshead Millennium (blinking eye) bridge, which is a good few miles inland.

http://www.tynepedestrianandcyclisttunnels.co.uk/


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## Brains (2 Aug 2016)

I wonder why they closed both of them at the same time ?
Surely it would have made sense to refurbish one and keep the other open for bi-directional traffic

A 6+ year closure is not good ......


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## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

Brains said:


> I wonder why they closed both of them at the same time ?
> Surely it would have made sense to refurbish one and keep the other open for bi-directional traffic
> 
> A 6+ year closure is not good ......


Yeah, but it's only walkers and cyclists. No councillor is going to lose an election because they upset walkers and cyclists. It's not like it inconveniences any motorists. That would only happen if they closed one of the motoring tunnel bores to maintain a walking and cycling connect, so they don't.


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2016)

Brains said:


> I wonder why they closed both of them at the same time ?
> Surely it would have made sense to refurbish one and keep the other open for bi-directional traffic
> 
> A 6+ year closure is not good ......



I've only been through it once a few years ago, but I think it may only be single bore.


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## mjr (2 Aug 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> I've only been through it once a few years ago, but I think it may only be single bore.


Looks like two:
*Tyne Pedestrian Tunnel*


© Peter McDermott, cc-by-sa.


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## Pale Rider (3 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Looks like two:
> *Tyne Pedestrian Tunnel*
> 
> 
> © Peter McDermott, cc-by-sa.



I believe the main refurb work is installing a funicular railway-style lift.

With the entrance ripped to bits it wouldn't be possible to keep a bore open.

There was some work in progress pics online at one time, but I think they stopped when the project hit the buffers.


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## Lonestar (3 Aug 2016)

Kominic said:


> London commuters, generally speaking, do the rest of the cycling community a dis-service.
> 
> Just this morning at Liverpool Street, red light, stationary lorry in main lane and idiots just cycle through at full speed, nearly hitting a crossing pedestrian. I've seen this (amongst multiple other infractions) enough to determine this is normal in London. It's not where I live.



Sadly I know what you mean.


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## Lonestar (6 Aug 2016)

Shorter Street last night and yet again cars turning into the cycle lane.Once one goes they all follow,like sheep.


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## ianrauk (25 Aug 2016)

Dozy car driver in the new Hyde Park Cycle Lane


Sorry, can't seem to embed the video, so *HERE's *the link


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## Markymark (25 Aug 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Dozy car driver in the new Hyde Park Cycle Lane
> 
> 
> Sorry, can't seem to embed the video, so *HERE's *the link


Filmed by a cabbie on his phone whilst driving.


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## mjr (25 Aug 2016)

ianrauk said:


> Sorry, can't seem to embed the video, so *HERE's *the link


Don't worry. I can't seem to play the video. It shows up as zero seconds long and the website moans about me using an ad blocker which I'm not. I think they're being Artificially Intelligent.


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## ianrauk (22 Nov 2016)

How Sadiq Khan aims to be London's most cycle friendly mayor

Guardian piece *HERE*

And another piece from Andrew Gilligan from the same paper *HERE*


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## Markymark (23 Nov 2016)

For anyone who might benefit, there's a consultation on a proposed change to a cycle superhighway in London

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/west-smithfield/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/


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## mjr (23 Nov 2016)

Markymark said:


> For anyone who might benefit, there's a consultation on a proposed change to a cycle superhighway in London
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/west-smithfield/consultation/subpage.2015-09-03.3976631085/


Are the proposals linked from it? = am I being dim?

Any advice or gotchas to highlight?


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## Markymark (23 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> Are the proposals linked from it? = am I being dim?
> 
> Any advice or gotchas to highlight?


You are not being dim as the website is not very clear.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/west-smithfield/


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## mjr (23 Nov 2016)

Markymark said:


> You are not being dim as the website is not very clear.
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/west-smithfield/


Thanks. So if I've understood that table near the bottom correctly, these proposals would make driving (I guess that's what they mean by "traffic") and buses faster and cycling slower? Walking much faster, which is good, but it seems odd for it to be unbalanced in favour of motorists, doesn't it?


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## Markymark (23 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Isn't that the underlying purpose of all these segregated facilities, to keep cyclists out of the way of proper traffic?


This. I have a wonderful commute now using quiet roads. It's slower and further. I don't care.


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## mjr (23 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Isn't that the underlying purpose of all these segregated facilities, to keep cyclists out of the way of proper traffic?


Not necessarily, but it does seem like this bit of CS6 is going that way.  I can see myself continuing to use Hatton Garden and Shoe Lane instead of CS6 if that new section is as stop-start as it looks.

Cycle tracks can also be a good way to unravel routes where you don't really have a choice of adjacent roads and thereby keep the farking motorists out of the way of people cycling (as in most of the tracked part of CS3 IMO - but not where it crosses under CS6), plus open routes to cycling where motorists can't fit.


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## ianrauk (1 Dec 2016)

From the Standard

*Cyclists make up 70% of Blackfriars Bridge traffic*

CYCLISTS account for up to 70 per cent of all traffic on Blackfriars Bridge following the introduction of a cycle superhighway, Transport for London has revealed.

The change of use was almost as dramatic on Victoria Embankment, part of the flagship East-West superhighway, with cyclists forming 52 per cent of Like us on Facebook Follow us on Twitter traffic at the busiest times. A total of 4,695 cyclists used the North-South superhighway on Blackfriars Bridge in the three-hour morning peak — one rider almost every two seconds — while 3,608 used the Embankment route.

The figures emerge in a report detailing “significant increases” in cycling since the two routes were introduced by then mayor Boris Johnson shortly before he left office in May. TfL said the number of cyclists on the two routes was about 55 per cent higher than preconstruction, peaking at 70 per cent on the bridge at the busiest times.

Andrew Gilligan, the former cycling czar who championed the implementation of the superhighways, hailed the “truly extraordinary numbers”.

He said: “Rush-hour cycling use on the North- South superhighway is equivalent to the people carried by 64 full double-decker buses.”

The report also reveals for the first time why the completion of the EastWest route around Buckingham Palace is a year behind schedule — because TfL has been attempting to save money after a massive overspend.

The largely segregated route between Paddington and Tower Hill is now estimated to cost £58.7 million — £18.4 million above the initial £40.3 million estimate — because construction was started before designs were completed in a desperate bid to finish the project during Mr Johnson’s mayoralty.

TfL said motorists going east along the Embankment and Lower and Upper Thames Street in the evening peak were suffering additional delays of “10-15 minutes” due to the removal of a lane to allow the superhighway to be built.

Earlier this week, the Standard revealed that completion of the western section of the East-West superhighway a t Hyde Park had s parked complaints from residents in Lancaster Gate and Knightsbridge due to temporary roadworks and road closures. Cycling campaigners dismissed this as “short-term pain for long-term gain”.


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## Markymark (1 Dec 2016)

I've been at lights with 30-40 cyclists. If they were all in cars it would take 5 light changes to all get through. We all make it in 1 plus 3 or 4 cars. It's the way forward in central London.

There is no need for private cars. It should be bikes, buses, blue badge holders, a handful of green taxis and liveried commercial vehicles only.


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## ianrauk (1 Dec 2016)

For those that would like to see how many cyclists there are in London.
Check out this vid. Jump to the 11th minute



It's actually worth watching the whole video as it does give you a good idea as to what cycling in London is like.


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## Aperitif (1 Dec 2016)

It's ok. Not sure about cycle lanes...(not done enough tours - eek!) Watch the vid without any sound and it gives a different 'view' of what the ride is about. Good geographical voyage though.


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## Lonestar (2 Dec 2016)

User said:


> Isn't that the underlying purpose of all these segregated facilities, to keep cyclists out of the way of proper traffic?



It's not working.I tend to find I'm avoiding the CS's as much as I can.


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## ianrauk (5 Dec 2016)

More from the Guardian

*Sadiq Khan to spend £770m on London cycling initiatives*

Mayor’s proposed investment gets near levels seen in cycle-friendly nations such as Netherlands and Denmark

Among the plans are two new cycle superhighways, where riders would be largely separated from motor traffic. 

London’s mayor, Sadiq Khan, has promised to spend £770m on cycling initiatives over the course of his term, saying he wants to make riding a bike the “safe and obvious” transport choice for all Londoners.

Following criticism that Khan has not been as bold as his predecessor, Boris Johnson, in committing to new bike routes, and amid increasing worries about air quality in London, Khan’s office has set out what is described as a hugely ambitious programme to boost cyclist numbers.

The proposed spending of about £17 per person per year gets near the levels seen in cycle-friendly nations such as the Netherlands and Denmark.
Among the plans are proposals for two new cycle superhighways, routes on which riders are largely separated from motor traffic by kerbs and dedicated traffic lights, the first of which were built under Johnson and have proved hugely popular.

Cycle superhighway 4 would go from Tower Bridge to Greenwich in south-east London, and cycle superhighway 9 is planned to run from Olympia to Hounslow in west London, the City Hall announcement said.
The spending, which represents 5.5% of the budget for Transport for London (TfL), also covers the delivery of a series of extensions or new cycle superhighways already planned under Johnson.
It will also involve more so-called mini-Holland schemes in suburbs, which involve reducing through-traffic on quiet residential streets, and more than a dozen quietway routes along back streets.
Khan said he was delivering on his manifesto promise to be “the most pro-cycling mayor London has ever had”. He said: “With record amounts of money now committed for cycling in London, we will continue to work over the coming months developing further detailed plans for making cycling a safe and obvious choice for Londoners of all ages and backgrounds.”

London is seen as something of a national testbed for schemes to tempt more people out of cars and on to bikes. While overall levels of cycling for transport across the UK have stayed largely static over recent years, in London they have accelerated rapidly, especially on the new protected bike lanes.

TfL statistics released last week showed that cycle traffic on the first two major cycle superhighways, one running north to south past Blackfriars bridge, the other east-to-west along the Embankment, had risen by 55% in six months. At peak times, bikes now form the majority of all vehicles on both routes, the figures showed.

Khan has faced criticism that he has been slow to push through new bike routes, amid vehement if largely unfounded criticism from some driving groups, notably London’s taxi trade, that cycle lanes increase traffic congestion.

However, his new funding announcement has won support from cycling groups, including the London Cycling Campaign, Ashok Sinha, chief executive of the organisation, said the new investment “shows the mayor is serious about meeting his promises to triple the extent of London’s protected cycle lanes, fix the most dangerous junctions and enable boroughs to implement major walking and cycling schemes”.

He said: “It will help make London a better, greener, healthier and less congested city.”


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## Lonestar (5 Dec 2016)

Markymark said:


> This. I have a wonderful commute now using quiet roads. It's slower and further. I don't care.



Now since the CS 2 has been in operation II have been using an alternative route.


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## Simontm (5 Dec 2016)

ianrauk said:


> More from the Guardian
> 
> *Sadiq Khan to spend £770m on London cycling initiatives*
> 
> ...


Hmmm. Does it need it? From Chiswick Roundabout to Hammersmith, it's mainly cycle and bus lane. A couple of useless bike lanes especially after Goldhawk turn off but the bus lanes are good to use so extend them. Actually, why not resurface that stretch so I don't have to pogo to the one-way? 
The other way? Can be a bit annoying through Brentford but it's fairly relaxed - again with cycle lanes and bus lanes- from the walls of Sion House to Hounslow. 
Gonna be fun cycling through those roadworks!


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## ianrauk (6 Jan 2017)

From @gaz
Lots of reports from people that these cycle lanes aren't used. Its 5C. Around half past 8 on a thursday morning. Video is 15mins but played at 4x speed.

Count 'em


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## subaqua (6 Jan 2017)

ianrauk said:


> From @gaz
> Lots of reports from people that these cycle lanes aren't used. Its 5C. Around half past 8 on a thursday morning. Video is 15mins but played at 4x speed.
> 
> Count 'em



Ahhh the flagship CS. It's lovely . Apart from the massive speed tables ( oh the irony ) , and the cars driving in the lane.  Pity the other CS are funking rubbish.


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## tatr (7 Jan 2017)

It's going to be interesting to see how busy it gets in the summer. Last summer it wasn't fully open during the best weather. This year it will go past all the key tourist attractions, and it's been written about in Lonley Planet etc.

Even without a full summer of use, it's clearly more popular than planned.

Work on the Thames Super Sewer is due to start on Jan 23. The original plan was to close the superhighway for 3 years.

However that's changed and the route will now be diverted maintaining full segregation.



https://tfl.gov.uk/status-updates/major-works-and-events/road-changes-at-victoria-embankment

Not quite as convenient as before, but much better than the 2 mile diversion that cars are going to have to deal with.


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## Dec66 (12 Jan 2017)

I know it's been there for a while now, but could somebody introduce me to the person who designed the segregation at the Elephant and Castle roundabout, particularly the bit on the bend round to Newington Causeway which seems specifically designed to deliver cyclists into the path of buses cutting across the road to their stops?

I'd like to know what the thought process was behind that piece of engineering.


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## mjr (12 Jan 2017)

Dec66 said:


> I know it's been there for a while now, but could somebody introduce me to the person who designed the segregation at the Elephant and Castle roundabout, particularly the bit on the bend round to Newington Causeway which seems specifically designed to deliver cyclists into the path of buses cutting across the road to their stops?


If you're serious and not just wanting to abuse them, https://twitter.com/bricycle probably knows who it was and possibly the reasoning.


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## Dec66 (12 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> If you're serious and not just wanting to abuse them, https://twitter.com/bricycle probably knows who it was and possibly the reasoning.


Ta. I don't do Twitter, though.

I wouldn't abuse them, just ask what the idea was. I'm not keen on the new layout full stop (I use the bus lane rather than the cycle track going past the Metropolitan Tabernacle, for instance, because of the number of pedestrians on the cycle track), but that bit onto Newington Causeway is, quite frankly, unsafe (IMO).


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## mjr (12 Jan 2017)

Dec66 said:


> Ta. I don't do Twitter, though.


OK, let's see if I can understand it to try to summarise questions into 140 characters if there's stuff we can't find. It's been some time since I've cycled around E&C as I tend to turn off St George's Road before I get there, so I'm working from satellite photos - do you mean where the kerbed track ends as you head north into Newington Causeway and there are bus stops before it becomes a full-on bus(+bike+...) mandatory (solid-line) lane?

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/ro...er_uploads/responses-to-issues-raised_v01.pdf says "Although a bus stop by-pass will be provided southbound on Newington Causeway, space restrictions mean it is not possible to provide this provision northbound." There might be more detail at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/elephant-and-castle/ but it seems to me like the cycle track north had to end somewhere and that was considered the least awful at the time.


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## psmiffy (12 Jan 2017)

@ianrauk - how long has that been no left turn for the traffic?


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## Dec66 (12 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> OK, let's see if I can understand it to try to summarise questions into 140 characters if there's stuff we can't find. It's been some time since I've cycled around E&C as I tend to turn off St George's Road before I get there, so I'm working from satellite photos - do you mean where the kerbed track ends as you head north into Newington Causeway and there are bus stops before it becomes a full-on bus(+bike+...) mandatory (solid-line) lane?
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/ro...er_uploads/responses-to-issues-raised_v01.pdf says "Although a bus stop by-pass will be provided southbound on Newington Causeway, space restrictions mean it is not possible to provide this provision northbound." There might be more detail at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/elephant-and-castle/ but it seems to me like the cycle track north had to end somewhere and that was considered the least awful at the time.


That's the place.

They could have moved the bus stops to the north of Southwark Bridge Road, which would have meant they didn't have to cut straight across the cycle track to get to the stops.


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## ianrauk (12 Jan 2017)

psmiffy said:


> View attachment 157665
> 
> 
> @ianrauk - how long has that been no left turn for the traffic?




I'm not sure as I don't do that route. But I think ever since the superhighway opened.
Let's ask @gaz


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## mjr (12 Jan 2017)

psmiffy said:


> View attachment 157665
> 
> 
> @ianrauk - how long has that been no left turn for the traffic?


I'm not @ianrauk but I think it's since the CS works. Part of the reason was to add more pedestrian space to the north end of Westminster Bridge, though, so it wasn't only the CS motivating that change. I am surprised that there seems to be no signage telling southbound traffic to use Northumberland Avenue and Whitehall to get onto the bridge, but maybe they want to split the load with loops of Parliament Square. The answer may be somewhere in https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/cycling/eastwest/?cid=cycle-east-west



Dec66 said:


> They could have moved the bus stops to the north of Southwark Bridge Road, which would have meant they didn't have to cut straight across the cycle track to get to the stops.


Sorry to keep asking stuff, but is that building site north of Southwark Bridge Road still there? I'll probably ask if there's any plan to move the stops northwards once/if it's gone. There might be, as those stops seem unusually close to the previous stop by the Tabernacle and I can't see the width restriction at that precise location.


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## Dec66 (12 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> Sorry to keep asking stuff, but is that building site north of Southwark Bridge Road still there?


Yes, but hopefully not for too much longer.


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## Brains (16 Jan 2017)

CS4 - The Tower Bridge/Greenwich route, was promised by Boris to be open by 2015

Can Khan carry the can ?


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## Wolf616 (18 Jan 2017)

Does anyone use their bicycle to commute from south (specifically West Norwood) to central North (specifically Angel)? I'm moving jobs soon and this will be my new slightly shorter, albeit through bastard Central London, commute and I was wondering how much I should be gearing myself up for a terrible route


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## mjr (18 Jan 2017)

Wolf616 said:


> Does anyone use their bicycle to commute from south (specifically West Norwood) to central North (specifically Angel)?


Someone who knows more may be here but I've done Brixton station area to/from King's Cross in the past which isn't too bad for adults. Brixton Road has London bus lanes which are what they are, then it joins CS7 which is one of the old paint+pray ones slowly being upgraded with cycle track sections, then change onto CS6 near Elephant and Castle and that's all modern roadside cycle track albeit with lots of traffic lights and currently runs out on Faringdon Road I think. There's a cycle-only right turn near the Royal Mail place at Mount Pleasant (map says Margery Street) which is a bit of a bad old narrow cycle track but it lets you contraflow into the streets southwest of Angel. I think the section south of E&C is worse but I prefer cycle tracks to bus lanes and I know that's not a universal opinion on here.


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## Lonestar (18 Jan 2017)

subaqua said:


> Ahhh the flagship CS. It's lovely . Apart from the massive speed tables ( oh the irony ) , and the cars driving in the lane. Pity the other CS are funking rubbish.



Marvellous,these CS's really do brighten up my commute.

Forgot about the cars in the lane which are a minor irritation.Then there's loony joggers skateboarders and roller skaters...moped riders...have I missed anything.Cop car blue flashing?

Haven't seen a fire engine or a tuk-tuk yet.That's another few to tick off and perhaps a Boeing 737 attempting to land.

TBH though the roller skaters have got it wrong.At this time of year you need ice skates.


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## ianrauk (19 May 2017)

Pretty busy that Cycle Super Highway


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## Heigue'r (30 May 2017)

Was on cs3 this morning along embankment..felt like I was in the tour de france...what a buzz


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## Lonestar (15 Jun 2017)

Heigue'r said:


> Was on cs3 this morning along embankment..felt like I was in the tour de france...what a buzz



Unfortunately it's full of idiots so I avoid as much as possible.

The best bit is after Limehouse Eastwards.


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## Heigue'r (15 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Unfortunately it's full of idiots so I avoid as much as possible.
> 
> The best bit is after Limehouse Eastwards.




It was bliss when the weather was bad...agree with above allright....Still nice to see so many out and about,its quite motivational to keep at it


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## spen666 (15 Jun 2017)

Heigue'r said:


> Was on cs3 this morning along embankment..felt like I was in the tour de france...what a buzz



You were all taking performance enhancing drugs?


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## Lonestar (15 Jun 2017)

Heigue'r said:


> It was bliss when the weather was bad...agree with above allright....Still nice to see so many out and about,its quite motivational to keep at it




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTLGpWh-RI0


Actually this looks worse than the CS 3 Tower Gateway to Limehouse section.


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## atalanta (25 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> which is one of the old paint+pray ones


Spot-on. I've had my heart in my throat on CS8 more than once.


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## Dec66 (26 Jun 2017)

First commute back after my Franco-Belgian soujourn.

Yes, I remembered to ride on the left.

And yes, British drivers really are far less considerate of cyclists than their continental counterparts. Not having a go, it's just the way it is.


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## User16625 (28 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTLGpWh-RI0
> 
> 
> Actually this looks worse than the CS 3 Tower Gateway to Limehouse section.




Not sure if that cyclist nows how a zebra crossing is supposed to work. Basically you stop to let people cross. Plenty of numpty peds aswell tho.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2017)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Not sure if that cyclist nows how a zebra crossing is supposed to work. Basically you stop to let people cross. Plenty of numpty peds aswell tho.


Not sure if you noticed but that's the USA rather than a civilised country, so they ain't zebra crossings. That's how they mark crosswalks and it's actually an offence to cross against a "DONT WALK" light that they insult as "jaywalking". 

Althought the rider does seem to be a bit of a dick with the horn sometimes.


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## ianrauk (21 Jul 2017)

For Greenwich & Woolwich Foot Tunnel users

*Thames foot tunnels to allow cyclists*

TWO tunnels under the Thames are set to have cyclists riding through them for the first time in nearly 80 years.

Bylaws governing Greenwich and Woolwich foot tunnels, which are 498m and 370m long, are due to be updated after being enacted in 1938. They are used by 1.5 million people a year and cyclists must dismount. If they fail to do so they could face a fine of only £1 because it was set so long ago.

Now Greenwich council has voted to erect signs allowing cycling when “considered safe to all users”. Monitoring equipment is being tested to work out how to make it safer for shared use.


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## damj (21 Jul 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Count 'em...




Absolute nightmare!


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## Tynan (21 Jul 2017)

blimey, I commute into central London and this reminds me that i ride a route in summer/daylight to avoid routes like that


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## Tynan (21 Jul 2017)

Not my route for years but my impression is that more and more people are riding after a few mild winters and the new infrastructure, I avoid my most obvious routes due the number of riders, and many of them bad riders too, as soonas you get cycle congestion you get idiots trying to pass and overtake and undertake.

I ride a route with hills and a few nasty sections to avoid that

So in short a qualified no not really I suspect

i used to ride through London from Tottenham to Wimbledon in the mid eighties and hardly anyone rode in London rush hour back then


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## robjh (21 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Not my route for years but my impression is that more and more people are riding after a few mild winters and the new infrastructure, I avoid my most obvious routes due the number of riders, and many of them bad riders too, as soonas you get cycle congestion you get idiots trying to pass and overtake and undertake.
> 
> I ride a route with hills and a few nasty sections to avoid that
> 
> ...


I too used to commute into London in the mid-80s, from Tooting to the City and West End, and until Kennington or Stockwell I was on my own. On a busy morning you might get half a dozen of us going over the bridges together, and that felt like a crowd. I love seeing the numbers riding in London these days, give or take a bit of localised bunching. Some things have improved with time.


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## mjr (22 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> That was more than a year ago though. Have things settled down at all?


Not ever so. Some kneejerker put a load of barriers on Blackfriars Bridge that create congestion bottlenecks at the ends. Apparently they're "temporary" but I suspect that might be like the "temporary" tin shed at King's Cross that was there 40 years


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## MichaelO (24 Jul 2017)

User said:


> Southwark bridge has likewise.


Aren't they on all/most bridges following the London Bridge attack?


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## velovoice (27 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> That's how they mark crosswalks and it's actually an offence to cross against a "DONT WALK" light that they insult as "jaywalking".


Small point of order as I know how precise and accurate you like to be...
Crossing against a "DON'T WALK" light is, in the US (as that's your context), called "crossing against the light" or similar.
"Jaywalking" is crossing the street where there is no designated crossing, for example mid-block. It's this normal everyday behaviour that the motoring lobby managed to criminalise with the advent of the motor car. Marked crossings came into existence as part of that process to criminalise jaywalking.


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## mjr (27 Jul 2017)

velovoice said:


> "Jaywalking" is crossing the street where there is no designated crossing, for example mid-block. It's this normal everyday behaviour that the motoring lobby managed to criminalise with the advent of the motor car. Marked crossings came into existence as part of that process to criminalise jaywalking.


For crossing freely to be an offence, it needs to be within a certain distance of a marked crossing, doesn't it?


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## velovoice (27 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> For crossing freely to be an offence, it needs to be within a certain distance of a marked crossing, doesn't it?


In the US, you have to be within the lines of the crossing to not be committing the offence. (There may be variances in different states.)


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## velovoice (27 Jul 2017)

velovoice said:


> In the US, you have to be within the lines of the crossing to not be committing the offence. (There may be variances in different states.)


In the small town I grew up, crossings were few and far between. Technically, every time we crossed the road virtually anywhere in town, we were jaywalking. But law enforcement didn't give a damn. And we all knew the Justice of the Peace personally. 

ETA: Look up the history of jaywalking. It's an offence created so that motorists would have something to throw back, if they hit a pedestrian. Total con.


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## ianrauk (8 Nov 2017)

Greenwich Foot Tunnel ‘to be full up with cyclists’ by 2025, TfL says

Linky *HERE*


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## MossCommuter (8 Nov 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Greenwich Foot Tunnel ‘to be full up with cyclists’ by 2025, TfL says
> 
> Linky *HERE*


Linky no worky


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## ianrauk (8 Nov 2017)

MossCommuter said:


> Linky no worky




Works for me, anyone else?


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## Tim Hall (8 Nov 2017)

User said:


> Works for me


And me. Interesting reading.


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## MossCommuter (8 Nov 2017)

OK; all very odd.

I'll take a look later, on a different device.

As you were


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## mjr (8 Nov 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Greenwich Foot Tunnel ‘to be full up with cyclists’ by 2025, TfL says
> 
> Linky *HERE*


WTF do they mean "even though riding a bicycle is technically banned"? Surely part of the reason why the tunnel is going to hit its theoretical maximum is because riding is banned, as a pushed cycle takes up more room for more time?

What do locals make of the options? It's not a route I'd use much from my most frequent arrivals point at Kings Cross.


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## Mile195 (8 Nov 2017)

Perhaps once the Silvertown tunnel gets built, they could restore 1 bore of the blackwall tunnel back to non-motorised use instead and provide another cycling route across the river there as an alternative...
...Although apparently they've been talking about a crossing there since 1976, so I probably won't put any money on it happening soon...


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## ianrauk (8 Nov 2017)

Mile195 said:


> Perhaps once the Silvertown tunnel gets built, they could restore 1 bore of the blackwall tunnel back to non-motorised use instead and provide another cycling route across the river there as an alternative...
> ...Although apparently they've been talking about a crossing there since 1976, so I probably won't put any money on it happening soon...




There's all sorts of crossings being mooted, bridges, tunnels, a ferry. I just wish they would get on with it. Not only Ped/Cycle crossing but another road crossing too to relieve some motor traffic off the A200.


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## smutchin (8 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> WTF do they mean "even though riding a bicycle is technically banned"? Surely part of the reason why the tunnel is going to hit its theoretical maximum is because riding is banned, as a pushed cycle takes up more room for more time?



The main reason for the theoretical maximum is the lifts - there's only one lift at each end of the tunnel and they have finite capacity. Even though they've been revamped recently, the lifts are still quite slow.

And that's when they're working! (I have had to carry my bike up the stairs on occasion.)



> What do locals make of the options? It's not a route I'd use much from my most frequent arrivals point at Kings Cross.



Several times lately I've had cause to ride between the West End and Charlton and the foot tunnel is on my preferred route (down through Covent Garden to the river, then along the Lower Thames St cycle path (CS3?) to Tower Hill, along Cable Street to Limehouse and then onto the riverside path down to the tunnel). The congestion in the tunnel doesn't affect me since I'm always using it outside peak times. Hard to say how the new crossing options would work without seeing how they're integrated into the surrounding infrastructure.


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## derrick (8 Nov 2017)

KneesUp said:


> It already doesn't look wide enough to cope with demand.


Just like our Motorways.


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## mjr (8 Nov 2017)

smutchin said:


> The main reason for the theoretical maximum is the lifts - there's only one lift at each end of the tunnel and they have finite capacity. Even though they've been revamped recently, the lifts are still quite slow.


Good point - I was reading it too literally. If that's the case, why don't they tunnel out ramps instead? If what I've read is correct, the tunnel is 15m down, which I think means a 5% ramp would need about 300m, putting the southern portal somewhere like Nelson Road or Romney Road and the northern portal in Millwall Park, assuming they try to avoid tunnelling under buildings or through the rail lines. Probably expensive, but more than a bridge?


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## psmiffy (8 Nov 2017)

I thought there was already a ferry? - for the number of cyclists it just needs a better ferry?


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## mjr (8 Nov 2017)

psmiffy said:


> I thought there was already a ferry? - for the number of cyclists it just needs a better ferry?


Are you thinking of Woolwich not Greenwich? The nearest ferry to Greenwich is the Docklands hotel one that costs something around £5 IIRC - the DLR is closer and cheaper, although cycles are only allowed off-peak.


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## Tin Pot (8 Nov 2017)

The Greenwich Ferry. Love it!


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## Lonestar (20 Nov 2017)

Heigue'r said:


> Was on cs3 this morning along embankment..felt like I was in the tour de france...what a buzz



I wont use it in the rush-hour and neither the CS 3 from Limehouse to Tower Gateway.Have to use Tower Gateway to Southwark Bridge section,though.
I use it from Southwark Bridge to Limhouse on return although I don't want to.After that the route sort of settles down a bit.


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## Heigue'r (20 Nov 2017)

Lonestar said:


> I wont use it in the rush-hour and neither the CS 3 from Limehouse to Tower Gateway.Have to use Tower Gateway to Southwark Bridge section,though.
> I use it from Southwark Bridge to Limhouse on return although I don't want to.After that the route sort of settles down a bit.



I enjoy it alot more now that it has quitened down....The above post was probably from when I started using the route and was quite surprised at the amount of people using it.And the excitement of it all also.Im on it around 7am so I would guess the start if rush hour


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## spen666 (20 Nov 2017)

Mile195 said:


> Perhaps once the Silvertown tunnel gets built, they could *restore *1 bore of the blackwall tunnel back to non-motorised use instead and provide another cycling route across the river there as an alternative...
> ...Although apparently they've been talking about a crossing there since 1976, so I probably won't put any money on it happening soon...



When was it ever solely for non motorised use?


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## mjr (20 Nov 2017)

spen666 said:


> When was it ever solely for non motorised use?


The original Blackwall tunnel (the current northbound, complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) opened in 1897. It seems quite plausible that the early motorised deathtraps weren't allowed into it, but the Thames Tunnel (Blackwall) Act 1887 doesn't seem to be online to check.


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## Markymark (20 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) .


Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.


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## spen666 (20 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> The original Blackwall tunnel (the current northbound, complete with bends to stop horses seeing daylight and bolting) opened in 1897. It seems quite plausible that the early motorised deathtraps weren't allowed into it, but the Thames Tunnel (Blackwall) Act 1887 doesn't seem to be online to check.




Think you are incorrect. The evidence would seem to suggest there was no such restriction.


for example
Taken from the British History website at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vols43-4/pp640-645


> ....Most of the vehicles using the tunnel during the first weeks were dock and railway vans...


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## mjr (20 Nov 2017)

Markymark said:


> Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.


I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.



spen666 said:


> Think you are incorrect. The evidence would seem to suggest there was no such restriction.
> 
> 
> for example
> Taken from the British History website at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vols43-4/pp640-645


But were those vans motorised? A "van" used to be merely a enclosed wagon:






Benz's first truck was only 1895 or thereabouts, so it would be surprising if they were that common in London just two years later. However, given the mention of railways, road-going steam traction engines might have been used.

Anyway, what was "incorrect" in saying it's plausible and the original act isn't online?


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## spen666 (20 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.
> 
> 
> But were those vans motorised? A "van" used to be merely a enclosed wagon:
> ...




So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong


Oh and all the 1887 legislation is online if you look for it and no it doesn't mention any ban on motor vehicles in the Blackwall Tunnel.

I would post it, but it would be a breach of copyright from the source I obtained the details from




The Blackwall Tunnel is shape it is owing to docks/ sewage pipes etc in vicinity


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## Markymark (20 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> I may have confused it with Rotherhithe - one of them definitely has bends that make little sense as worming.


It's a very common misconception which I was put right on recently.


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## mjr (20 Nov 2017)

spen666 said:


> So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong


Huh? 



spen666 said:


> Oh and all the 1887 legislation is online if you look for it and no it doesn't mention any ban on motor vehicles in the Blackwall Tunnel.
> 
> I would post it, but it would be a breach of copyright from the source I obtained the details from


And you won't link it because ...?


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## spen666 (20 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> And you won't link it because ...?


Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over


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## NickNick (20 Nov 2017)

spen666 said:


> Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over



Doesn't that imply then that its not freely accessible online and is instead on a subscription based/paywalled site?


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## mjr (20 Nov 2017)

spen666 said:


> So to suggest they were banned in legislation years before the Benz truck came out is wrong


Trucks weren't the first motor vehicle anyway. But I still didn't suggest that. I just said it was plausible.



spen666 said:


> Erm because it would be a breach of copyright and be a breach of employment and lead to me being dismissed- forget it you are not worth losing my job over


Linking ain't a breach of copyright.


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## spen666 (21 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Trucks weren't the first motor vehicle anyway. But I still didn't suggest that. I just said it was plausible.
> 
> 
> Linking ain't a breach of copyright.




Erm actually it may be - but as its on a pay site, a link would be no use to you as you could not access it in any event





NickNick said:


> Doesn't that imply then that its not freely accessible online and is instead on a subscription based/paywalled site?


Yes


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## toffee (21 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Good point - I was reading it too literally. If that's the case, why don't they tunnel out ramps instead? If what I've read is correct, the tunnel is 15m down, which I think means a 5% ramp would need about 300m, putting the southern portal somewhere like Nelson Road or Romney Road and the northern portal in Millwall Park, assuming they try to avoid tunnelling under buildings or through the rail lines. Probably expensive, but more than a bridge?



Went through a tunnel in Rotterdam this year, took the bikes down the escalator. Bit hairy as it was fully loaded.
Not us by the way but the same tunnel - The *Maastunnel


View: https://youtu.be/NX7B92O0bbc


*


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## subaqua (22 Nov 2017)

Markymark said:


> Urban myth apparently. It was more to do with worming to find the easiest rock to cut through.




theres not much rock in london strata. clay mostly which is quite easy to bore through. but that part of the river is alluvial which is rather soft . 

( I am not a geology expert but currently sat in our Head office next to the tunnelling division ( well Civils) )


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## Mile195 (22 Nov 2017)

spen666 said:


> When was it ever solely for non motorised use?


ooops. I appear to have opened a small can of worms.
I didn't intend to imply there was ever any restriction on motor vehicles. And indeed there probably never was - I think it was open to all before the 1960's (I saw a documentary a while ago which showed the specially built bus they had for taking bikes through the tunnel just after it was changed to motorised use only). But what I meant was, to restore use of the blackwall tunnel to non-motorised traffic as well as whatever else.
Anyway, it's a moot point because it'll never happen.
The cable car can be used by cycles which is close enough to the blackwall tunnel to ensure there is never a case for opening the blackwall tunnel to bikes. Although at £9 a go (or £1.70 if you can commit to using 10 trips over the year) I think I would find it a little frivolous to commute using it every day if I needed to go that way.


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## ianrauk (22 Nov 2017)

Mile195 said:


> The cable car can be used by cycles which is close enough to the blackwall tunnel to ensure there is never a case for opening the blackwall tunnel to bikes. Although at £9 a go (or £1.70 if you can commit to using 10 trips over the year) I think I would find it a little frivolous to commute using it every day if I needed to go that way.



Cash fare is £4.50 or £3.50 if you use your Oyster/Contactless


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## tatr (22 Nov 2017)

I tend to avoid the cable car because I don't like the black looks you get when walking past the tourist ticket queue directly to the oyster gate, even though that's what you are supposed to do according to the staff.


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## ianrauk (22 Nov 2017)

tatr said:


> I tend to avoid the cable car because I don't like the black looks you get when walking past the tourist ticket queue directly to the oyster gate, even though that's what you are supposed to do according to the staff.




Doesn't bother me in the slightest. And the staff are very helpful and cyclist friendly.


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## mjr (23 Nov 2017)

from http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/of...-use-in-london-set-to-overtake-car-use/022268

Blimey. Stuff's working. At a guess 2003 congestion charge, 2010 cycle hire docks, 2008-2012ish first wave CS, and we wait to see if we can spot 2016ish second wave CS (EW and NS).


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## NickNick (23 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> View attachment 384402
> 
> from http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/of...-use-in-london-set-to-overtake-car-use/022268
> 
> Blimey. Stuff's working.



Must admit I live getting off the train in Marylebone knowing I've got a week of commuting and cycling around London, those extra numbers of cyclists co.pared to Birmingham make the whole thing much more enjoyable.


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## Lonestar (9 Dec 2017)

Just came back from commute on the CS 3 and the cops were there on the junction of Leman St/Dock street and CS 3/Cable Street...A car had hit the bridge parapet and the car looked totalled.Even the passenger doors were gone.How bloody hard did he hit it?

It looks like it's been scrapped on the spot.

Wasn't there on the commute in.These Weekend commutes are getting madder and madder.


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## MossCommuter (9 Dec 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Just came back from commute on the CS 3 and the cops were there on the junction of Leman St/Dock street and CS 3/Cable Street...A car had hit the bridge parapet and the car looked totalled.Even the passenger doors were gone.How bloody hard did he hit it?
> 
> It looks like it's been scrapped on the spot.
> 
> Wasn't there on the commute in.These Saturday commutes are getting madder and madder.


Maybe the emergency services caused most damage extracting the occupants


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## Lonestar (9 Dec 2017)

MossCommuter said:


> Maybe the emergency services caused most damage extracting the occupants



Good point.Thanks.

I did think it was a bit strange but I have been up since 2am (and been down to Bournemouth)


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Dec 2017)

mjr said:


> View attachment 384402
> 
> Blimey. Stuff's working. .



No, it isn't working at all. The total number of vehicles has actually declined, yet the traffic congestion and journey times are WORSE now than before the congestion charge came in! How can worsening congestion and making it more difficult for people to go about their business possibly be regarded as a success? The Mayor and TfL are a complete bunch of muppets.


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## mjr (9 Dec 2017)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No, it isn't working at all. The total number of vehicles has actually declined, yet the traffic congestion and journey times are WORSE now than before the congestion charge came in! How can worsening congestion and making it more difficult for people to go about their business possibly be regarded as a success? The Mayor and TfL are a complete bunch of muppets.


I don't know what numbers you're using... oh, wait, you're not using any  We used to call that proof by, err, shall we say vigorous handwaving.

The numbers of people (not vehicles) has remained similar since the congestion charge encouraged about 20k through motorists to fark off. It's just that the mix has changed for the better. That's a success.


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## tatr (10 Dec 2017)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> No, it isn't working at all. The total number of vehicles has actually declined, yet the traffic congestion and journey times are WORSE now than before the congestion charge came in! How can worsening congestion and making it more difficult for people to go about their business possibly be regarded as a success?



The only way to reduce the number of cars is by making journey times longer so people choose another form of transport.

Reducing the number and speed of cars makes it easier to go about your business as a pedestrian or cyclist.

So that sounds like it's been a success.


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## mjr (19 Jan 2018)

Londonist inside a cycle hire depot:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByYNhtokbbs


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## mjr (19 Jan 2018)

Londonist being shown the new hire cycles:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UABLRqAZRw4


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## jahlive905 (14 Mar 2018)

Anyone else bummed out that the window where Tooley street was only for cyclists is over? It used to be so fun and quick whizzing along there. Now it's bumper to bumper with lots of HGVs and peds to contend with. And a ridiculous number of traffic lights too. Boo.


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## ianrauk (14 Mar 2018)

jahlive905 said:


> Anyone else bummed out that the window where Tooley street was only for cyclists is over? It used to be so fun and quick whizzing along there. Now it's bumper to bumper with lots of HGVs and peds to contend with. And a ridiculous number of traffic lights too. Boo.




Window? Do you mean the bus lane entrance to Tooley Street or the segregated bike path??


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## jahlive905 (14 Mar 2018)

A window as in a time frame. See this page.

*"Tuesday 3 May 2016 until 2018 – road users*
Tooley Street is closed to eastbound traffic from Borough High Street to Bermondsey Street."

That was bliss. But I've just checked and it's only temporary: 

"Tooley Street will temporarily reopen to two-way traffic from 18:00 on Saturday 24 February until mid-March 2018." 

So during mid-March to May the cars should be gone again


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## ianrauk (14 Mar 2018)

jahlive905 said:


> A window as in a time frame. See this page.
> 
> *"Tuesday 3 May 2016 until 2018 – road users*
> Tooley Street is closed to eastbound traffic from Borough High Street to Bermondsey Street."
> ...




Ah right, so you mean it's now reverted back to normal 2 way traffic.


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## smutchin (14 Mar 2018)

Mixed feelings on that one. I didn't much like the segregated bike lane because it seemed slightly too narrow and you'd always get some twerp (usually a courier) trying to overtake you even if there wasn't room. Not to mention the hazard of pavement lemmings - always a problem when there's nowhere to escape to due to being fenced in.

On the other hand, it was nicer than fighting for space and air alongside the buses etc.


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## jahlive905 (15 Mar 2018)

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg


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## BalkanExpress (17 Mar 2018)

Do the CSs get gritted. I ask because I’ve here in Brussels they have some new mintractors that clear and then salt the main cycle paths. It’s snowing at the moment so I expect they will be out later.

Then do need a bit of fine tuning, the salt seems to come out in batches that makes cornering occasionally interesting


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## StuAff (17 Mar 2018)

BalkanExpress said:


> Do the CSs get gritted. I ask because I’ve here in Brussels they have some new mintractors that clear and then salt the main cycle paths. It’s snowing at the moment so I expect they will be out later.
> 
> Then do need a bit of fine tuning, the salt seems to come out in batches that makes cornering occasionally interesting


Nope, at least not the separate/off-road sections. The Christmas FNRttC had to be aborted because of black ice. We were on Cable Street (CS3) when a few of us nearly came a cropper, on the path not the road, and we were warning other cyclists who came along when one chap didn't take heed, and went down hard. Stragglers of That Not London tiptoed round to St Pancras to keep warmer for a few hours. When I made my way back down to Guildford for a train home (set off 4.47, I wasn't going to wait for the first train from Waterloo) I kept to the road & went for A-roads rather than lanes.


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## Pete Owens (18 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> View attachment 384402
> 
> from http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/of...-use-in-london-set-to-overtake-car-use/022268
> 
> Blimey. Stuff's working. At a guess 2003 congestion charge, 2010 cycle hire docks, 2008-2012ish first wave CS, and we wait to see if we can spot 2016ish second wave CS (EW and NS).


I think what you are seeing there is the effect of Ken Livingstone. The only individual policy that can definitely be seen on the graph is the congestion charge producing a significant dip in private car use. But there followed a whole raft of pro-people transport policies (or anti-car in the right wing press), and Ken was one of the few politicians to have the courage to go with them. When Boris came in he was full "end-the-war-on-motorists" rhetoric - and his first actions were abandoning the extension of the congestion charge, reducing the pedestrian crossing time at lights and letting other vehicles into bus lanes. It takes time for the change of policy to start impacting on the streets and some of Ken's programs (such as the "Boris" bikes) were retained, but by 2012 you can see the graphs levelling off.


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## ianrauk (21 Mar 2018)

Hopefully a new pedestrian/cycle bridge across the Thames is on it's way

*London river crossings: TfL planning construction timeline for Rotherhithe-Canary Wharf pedestrian and cycling bridge*
by Rebecca Smith

21 March 2018 


_





The aim is for a crossing to provide an alternative for the Jubilee Line (Source: TfL)
Plans for a new river crossing in east London were given a boost today with the backing of Londoners, so Transport for London (TfL) will now draw up more detailed designs and a construction timeline.

The results of a consultation on the Rotherhithe to Canary Wharf bridge that will provide a pedestrian and cycling route across the Thames were published this morning, with 93 per cent of the 6,093 responses in favour of the new crossing.

TfL’s provisional preferred option of a navigable bridge was supported by 85 per cent of responses to the consultation, and the northern alignment between Nelson Dock and Westferry Circus got the strongest support.





(Source: TfL)


The development would link existing and planned cycle routes on both sides of the river, and is aimed at fuelling sustainable growth in east London, Canada Water and the Isle of Dogs by providing a useful alternative to the Jubilee Line. 

At present, pedestrians and cyclists don't have many spots where they can cross the river east of Tower Bridge easily and safely - restricting access to key destinations such as Canary Wharf and Canada Water.

TfL said the Greenwich Foot Tunnel is already operating at capacity at peak times and the Rotherhithe Tunnel is regularly avoided by pedestrians and cyclists due to the dominance of traffic and narrow footways.

Deputy mayor for transport, Val Shawcross, said:

I’m delighted that thousands of people took part in the consultation, and have given us such overwhelming support for a new walking and cycling crossing between Rotherhithe and Canary Wharf.

With its growing population, a new river crossing is much needed in this part of East London, providing vital new connections for residents, businesses and commuters around Canary Wharf. Our plans should enable thousands more people to make walking and cycling a part of their everyday lives, improving life for everyone.

Gareth Powell, managing director of surface transport at TfL, said: “We are now working with Atkins, our design and engineering consultants, and local stakeholders to develop an accessible and achievable crossing that links to new and proposed walking and cycling routes on both sides of the river.”
_


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## Dec66 (22 Mar 2018)

ianrauk said:


> Hopefully a new pedestrian/cycle bridge across the Thames is on it's way
> 
> *London river crossings: TfL planning construction timeline for Rotherhithe-Canary Wharf pedestrian and cycling bridge*
> by Rebecca Smith
> ...


Smashing. It might even stop people cycling through the Greenwich Foot Tunnel.

*runs away*


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## mjr (22 Mar 2018)

Dec66 said:


> Smashing. It might even stop people cycling through the Greenwich Foot Tunnel.
> 
> *runs away*


I suspect it depends where on the north side they're going. TfL could probably test the effect by setting a cyclist fare of zero on the ferry (is it about £4 at the moment?) although that's still not going to be as attractive as a bridge.


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## smutchin (22 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> I suspect it depends where on the north side they're going. TfL could probably test the effect by setting a cyclist fare of zero on the ferry (is it about £4 at the moment?) although that's still not going to be as attractive as a bridge.



Which ferry? If you mean Woolwich, that's already free to cyclists.


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> Which ferry? If you mean Woolwich, that's already free to cyclists.


It'll be the City Clipper. City bound, it stops at Greenwich (south bank), then Docklands pier (north bank).


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## mjr (22 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> Which ferry? If you mean Woolwich, that's already free to cyclists.


No, the one on the line of the proposed bridge. RB4 on https://www.thamesclippers.com/route-time-table

I know about Woolwich and have used it. It seems a bit strange to me that the Sustrans "cycle" route still uses the Greenwich foot tunnels instead of the Woolwich ferry - I guess a millennium lottery project wanted to go past the millennium dome, but why not reroute now?


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## smutchin (22 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> No, the one on the line of the proposed bridge. RB4 on https://www.thamesclippers.com/route-time-table
> 
> I know about Woolwich and have used it. It seems a bit strange to me that the Sustrans "cycle" route still uses the Greenwich foot tunnels instead of the Woolwich ferry - I guess a millennium lottery project wanted to go past the millennium dome, but why not reroute now?



Well, if I'm riding from Central London to Charlton, as I do occasionally, the Greenwich foot tunnel is on my route. The Woolwich ferry adds an extra couple of miles. This proposed new crossing would be no use to me for that journey so I would continue to use the foot tunnel.


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## mjr (22 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> Well, if I'm riding from Central London to Charlton, as I do occasionally, the Greenwich foot tunnel is on my route. The Woolwich ferry adds an extra couple of miles. This proposed new crossing would be no use to me for that journey so I would continue to use the foot tunnel.


Sure, as probably would others heading to Charlton, plus parts of Greenwich and maybe Eltham and so on, unless they're really keen to keep cycling legally - but there's a lot of journeys to south and west of there which would be better served by the new bridge (especially people working at Canary Wharf).

As for the Sustrans long-distance route, it's coming along the Thames from Kent and heading for Limehouse, so the Woolwich ferry seems a pretty obvious choice.


----------

