# Tour de France 2012 (with SPOILERS)



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jun 2012)

Okay, since no-one else has done it yet, this is the thread for discussion of the TdF with unwarranted speculation, commentary, results and other spoilers... so if you don't want to know the results, look away now!

Let's start with some predictions...

Winner: Bradley Wiggins
Green jersey: Peter Sagan


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## Hont (22 Jun 2012)

I think you've chosen the favourites for both there. Sneaky.

My Top 3 prediction:

1. Wiggins
2. Evans
3. Someone obviously dodgy, probably from Radioshack or Spanish.

Too much to hope for an all clean podium.

Polka Dot: Ryder Hesjedal (that's left field no?)
White Jersey: Pierre Roland (does he still qualify?)


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## ColinJ (22 Jun 2012)

I predict that there will be a huge surge of interest in cycling in the UK if/when Wiggins really looks like he is going to win and the mainstream media start reporting it on the front pages/prime time news.


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## smutchin (22 Jun 2012)

Got to be between Wiggins and Evans for the top two spots on the podium, then I'll say Van Den Broeck for third.

Sagan looks the safest bet for green.

Sanchez for KOM.

Tejay for the white jersey.

d.


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## smutchin (22 Jun 2012)

Hont said:


> 3. Someone obviously dodgy, probably from Radioshack or Spanish.


 
Kloden or Valverde then. Or maybe a Russian, ie Menchov?

d.


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## rich p (22 Jun 2012)

Difficult to see past Wiggins and Evans for the top 2 places. Maybe Nibali for 3rd but he's not a great TTer.
Gawd knows for the rest.
Sagan or Goss for green. I'll go for Goss.
Moncoutie for KOM with no confidence.


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## raindog (22 Jun 2012)

OK I'll go with 
1 Evans
2 Brad
3 Hesjedal

Cav will pick up two wins and get green (Sagan will disappoint) and an Euskaltel rider will get the mountain jersey.
Pierre Rolland will win another stage.
Nico Roche will get a top ten finish. No, no wait, that's going too far.


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## rowdin (22 Jun 2012)

Froome will be in white, he's the one who will be taking wiggo up the big hills after all.


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## Steve H (22 Jun 2012)

I'm a big fan of Cav, but I'm not sure he's going to take Green this year. The team have primarily been picked to support Wiggins for Yellow, and Cav's recent GC win and his weight loss suggest he is focused on the Olympics Gold as his primary goal. Hope he still gets a couple of stage wins, but not sure he'll be in Green at the end.

I'm also hoping that Mark Renshaw will be able to get a Stage win or two. He's not quite had the edge in races this year, but I reckon he will be trying to peak for the Tour.

I hope that neither Wiggins or Evans get caught in an early crash and lose a lot of time or it could prevent the battle we all want to see this year.


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## Boris Bajic (22 Jun 2012)

I've studied this race over a number of years. 

The gentleman in the yellow t-shirt will win the race.

The gentleman in the spotty t-shirt will be quite small and wiry.

The gentleman in the white t-shirt will not start shaving until next year.

Arsenal will not win the team competition as they will not enter. Also, they have not won much lately.


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## ColinJ (22 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> I've studied this race over a number of years.
> 
> The gentleman in the yellow t-shirt will win the race.
> 
> ...


It's funny that, isn't it! I can't quite figure out how it happens, year after year after year. I reckon the results might be fixed ...


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## Nearly there (22 Jun 2012)

Not many having confidence in Mr Cavendish the sprints are going to be interesting this year I think 3 wins will get the green this year but for who mm


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## threebikesmcginty (22 Jun 2012)

A Wig win would be wiz. Shame Geraint isn't taking part this year.


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## lukesdad (22 Jun 2012)

The french to win more stages than anyone else. I'll be happy with that.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (22 Jun 2012)

Brad for the win, really rooting for the guy, I will be a proud cyclist if he wins the race, crikey I even bought a magazine for this years TDF !


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## smutchin (22 Jun 2012)

rowdin said:


> Froome will be in white, he's the one who will be taking wiggo up the big hills after all.



Does he qualify? He's 27 now, isn't he?

d.


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## Noodley (22 Jun 2012)

Froome and Rolland are too old for white jersey. 

EBH is in, as is Tejay van Whatisname, Steven Kruijswijk, Peter Sagan, Rein Taarame and potentially Thibaut Pinot and Antony Roux - there will be others but that's the ones I could be bothered with!


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## raindog (22 Jun 2012)

looks like JB has been told to fall on his sword 
http://johanbruyneel.com/news_articles/tour_statement_2012.html


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## Paul_L (23 Jun 2012)

raindog said:


> looks like JB has been told to fall on his sword
> http://johanbruyneel.com/news_articles/tour_statement_2012.html


 
The net is closing!

Could this have been conditional on allowing RSNT to even line up in Liege? Whilst i'm glad the truth may soon come out, i hope it doesn't overshadow what looks to be an historic TdF.


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## yello (23 Jun 2012)

Steve H said:


> he is focused on the Olympics Gold as his primary goal.


 
I'd agree ("he" being Cavendish). For me, the clue was in Brailsford statement earlier in the year about Wiggins and Cavendish needing to prioritise. I don't even think it was a quid quo pro for Cavendish (i.e. he agreed to focus on the Olympics so Sky could focus on supporting Wiggins), I think he genuinely wants the road gold in Britain more than he wants a green jersey this year. So, my guesses (I'll not call them picks because I know nothing!)

yellow - Evans (he's just too strong, gutsy and knows what he has to do and when)
green - Sagan is the obvious fave for obvious reasons
spots - a Spaniard or Columbian!
white - hopefully someone that doesn't shave because that would indicate testosterone 

Cavendish will take a stage or two but go home early. Didi will be there. Voekler will give it a go, repeatedly (knee permitting).


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## Strathlubnaig (23 Jun 2012)

rowdin said:


> Froome will be in white, he's the one who will be taking wiggo up the big hills after all.


I think Wiggins just goes up the big hills regardless, he only weighs about 120 pounds now !


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## Strathlubnaig (23 Jun 2012)

Wiggins for yellow
Greipel for green ( he tips Sagan )
D Martin for polkas
Sagan for white


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## rich p (23 Jun 2012)

Oh, Kruijsvick (sp) for white.

edited just to show how wrong I was....Kruijswijk


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## raindog (23 Jun 2012)

Paul_L said:


> The net is closing!
> 
> Could this have been conditional on allowing RSNT to even line up in Liege?


Pretty likely I should think, and this seems like a veiled way of saying he was asked to leave........
"This is why I’ve decided - _after consulting with the Team’s main sponsors and in agreement with the Senior Management of Leopard_ - not to attend the race.


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## david k (23 Jun 2012)

what does (with spoilers) mean?


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## Noodley (23 Jun 2012)

david k said:


> what does (with spoilers) mean?


 
it means there will be information in the thread relating to what is happening in the race, a warning not to read it if you do not want to know the result or what is happening.


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## david k (23 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> it means there will be information in the thread relating to what is happening in the race, a warning not to read it if you do not want to know the result or what is happening.


 
oh i see, like looking away for the football results


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## ColinJ (23 Jun 2012)

david k said:


> what does (with spoilers) mean?


It means that people who want to watch race coverage without knowing the results beforehand should be aware that the thread will be discussing those. I am one of them and will only be visiting the thread after watching each stage. (Noodley got in first while I was on the phone!)


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## Browser (23 Jun 2012)

Can I just check, is Wiggo English? Normally when this sort of thing goes on we get the Andy Murray effect i.e if he wins it's a great day for Britain, if he loses he suddenly becomes the Scotsman who came so close 

As for the TDF? GO WIGGOOO!!!


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## ColinJ (23 Jun 2012)

Well, his dad was an Aussie so that should give the press something to work with ...


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## Noodley (23 Jun 2012)

Born in Belgium, so he's Belgian. You lot have stolen him.


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## raindog (23 Jun 2012)

And he was born in Belgium (I think)

EDIT
oops - crossed posts with Noodley


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## Noodley (23 Jun 2012)

And Chris Froome is Kenyan, but you stole him as well.


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## Dayvo (23 Jun 2012)

You can have Tony Bliar back any time.


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## threebikesmcginty (23 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> And Chris Froome is Kenyan, but you stole him as well.


 
Kenyan shmenyan, we'd nick the skin off a baby seals back, a cyclist is nothing!


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## Nihal (23 Jun 2012)

I'm confused,how are all these people related and .......................................no,not to Tour de France


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## rich p (23 Jun 2012)

Nihal said:


> I'm confused,how are all these people related and .......................................no,not to Tour de France


 They all share their blood.


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## lukesdad (23 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> I'd agree ("he" being Cavendish). For me, the clue was in Brailsford statement earlier in the year about Wiggins and Cavendish needing to prioritise. I don't even think it was a quid quo pro for Cavendish (i.e. he agreed to focus on the Olympics so Sky could focus on supporting Wiggins), I think he genuinely wants the road gold in Britain more than he wants a green jersey this year. So, my guesses (I'll not call them picks because I know nothing!)
> 
> yellow - Evans (he's just too strong, gutsy and knows what he has to do and when)
> green - Sagan is the obvious fave for obvious reasons
> ...


 
I concur


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## gaz (23 Jun 2012)

Spoilers already... damn it!


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## lukesdad (23 Jun 2012)

gaz said:


> Spoilers already... damn it!


 
Yeah why do we need a spoilers thread now ?


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## Stig-OT-Dump (23 Jun 2012)

david k said:


> what does (with spoilers) mean?


It means you have a special type of fairing on your bicycle.
Now that biological passports have relegated doping to the annals of history, and UCI rules limit minimum bike weight, and Spartacus got caught with the electric assist, the latest form of cheating is to fit a spoiler to one's bike just like the F1 crowd. Halfords are bring out a range of clip-on spoilers for sportive riders. Fot audax riders they have a range of clip on tea mug holders.
Cheers
Stig


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## Boris Bajic (23 Jun 2012)

Stig-OT-Dump said:


> It means you have a special type of fairing on your bicycle.
> Now that biological passports have relegated doping to the annals of history, and UCI rules limit minimum bike weight, and Spartacus got caught with the electric assist, the latest form of cheating is to fit a spoiler to one's bike just like the F1 crowd. Halfords are bring out a range of clip-on spoilers for sportive riders. Fot audax riders they have a range of clip on tea mug holders.
> Cheers
> Stig


 
I realise this might be a little rich coming from me, but I fear you may be completely barking and in need of psychological help to have typed the above.

I ought to add that I type this having just consumed two cocktails made by my wife after a hard day cutting back lilac in the garden.

The cocktail is called a Maiden's Prayer and it seems pretty lethal. It is making me giggle when I see nothing funny.

All the keys on my keyboard are melding into one big nonsense.

My son beat me on a hillclimb on road bikes today. Beat me? He pummeled me. Started behind me and mashed me before the summit.

Nonetheless, you are mad to post as you did above.

I must retire through an inability to think straight. Get help. Thank you. Good night.


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## david k (23 Jun 2012)

Stig-OT-Dump said:


> It means you have a special type of fairing on your bicycle.
> Now that biological passports have relegated doping to the annals of history, and UCI rules limit minimum bike weight, and Spartacus got caught with the electric assist, the latest form of cheating is to fit a spoiler to one's bike just like the F1 crowd. Halfords are bring out a range of clip-on spoilers for sportive riders. Fot audax riders they have a range of clip on tea mug holders.
> Cheers
> Stig


 
typical, those with better spoilers will do better than others, i wouldnt be surprised if lance armstrong was using one in his 7 TdF wins, I hope they investigate this


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## david k (23 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> I realise this might be a little rich coming from me, but I fear you may be completely barking and in need of psychological help to have typed the above.
> 
> I ought to add that I type this having just consumed two cocktails made by my wife after a hard day cutting back lilac in the garden.
> 
> ...


 i read the reply from stig earlier and it made no sense, several beers later and its coming very clear


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## ColinJ (23 Jun 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Yeah why do we need a spoilers thread now ?


Because if we don't launch a pre-emptive strike now, then somebody else will start a thread without the _SPOILERS_ warning and then we will end up having the age-old argument again once the race actually starts! 

_Hopefully_, anybody wanting to discuss the race will now use _this_ thread rather than starting new ones with spoiler titles like _"Fantastic win by Wiggo in Tour TT!"  _(We live in hope ...)


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## claver58 (23 Jun 2012)

And my prediction for the biggest disappointment is a Schleck.........or even f Schleck!


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## bubbles3 (23 Jun 2012)

You are joking about the spoilers for the bike?? aren't you??


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## Alun (23 Jun 2012)

Paul_L said:


> The net is closing!


I think that I've heard that statement before, It was about 2 or 3 years ago!


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## yello (24 Jun 2012)

Could people please not spoil the spoiler thread.


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## smutchin (24 Jun 2012)

bubbles3 said:


> You are joking about the spoilers for the bike?? aren't you??



A "spoiler", as the name suggests, is a device to disrupt airflow. On a car, they "spoil" the airflow over the car's body to prevent it acting like a wing. They wouldn't be much use on a bike. You don't create lift on a bike just by riding it fast.

NB spoilers and wings are not to be confused - some cars (eg F1 cars) have wings, not spoilers.

This is a pretty simplified explanation, but it's plenty OT enough without going into more detail...

d.


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## Mapster5 (24 Jun 2012)

What's an aero foil then is it a wing or a spoiler?


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## smutchin (24 Jun 2012)

Wing


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## User169 (24 Jun 2012)

Anyone going to be at the Grand Depart? Thinking of heading over for the w/ end.


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## montage (25 Jun 2012)

1. Wiggo
2. Valverde
3. Evans (I think if wiggins is in the lead coming into the final time trial, evans will blow him self up making some big attacks and lose some big time)
4. Sammy S
5. Rolland

Dan Martin for polka dots
Taarame for the white jersey
Boonen for green (he is riding right?....If not then Cav. Sagan won't get enough points in the big sprint stages)


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

smutchin said:


> A "spoiler", as the name suggests, is a device to disrupt airflow. On a car, they "spoil" the airflow over the car's body to prevent it acting like a wing. They wouldn't be much use on a bike. Y*ou don't create lift on a bike just by riding it fast.*


 
Awaits some know-it-all smart arse to come along and question that.


Where is GrasB?


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

Would a Wiggins win be one of the best sporting achievements ever by a Britain?


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

montage said:


> 1. Wiggo
> 
> *4. Sammy S*


 
Is he definitely riding?


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2012)

Yup.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...nd-Samuel-Sanchez-for-the-Tour-de-France.aspx

(Not yet official afaik, but seems to be coming from a number of sources.)


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

I like Sanchez-dunno why.

Pity he can't TT


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> Awaits some know-it-all smart arse to come along and question that.


 
I was actually waiting for someone to come along and say a spoiler is someone who explains a joke, thereby rendering it no longer funny.

d.


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## Nearly there (25 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> Would a Wiggins win be one of the best sporting achievements ever by a Britain?


Id say so


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## Edge705 (25 Jun 2012)

Too early to call GC and its a shame GT is not riding this year he would have been in with a great chance of yellow given his prologue form this year so I'll settle for SAGAN in the prologue his swiss win was no fluke he is a man in form and the TDF tends to reward in form riders.


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## yello (25 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> I like Sanchez-dunno why. Pity he can't TT


 
I like him too but he's no slug in a TT (though admittedly not the first name you think of) He has won TT stages before now.


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## Mapster5 (25 Jun 2012)

If wiggins does win what are the chances he'll get over looked for sports personality of the year?


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## ColinJ (25 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> I like Sanchez-dunno why.
> 
> Pity he can't TT


_Er ...?_  (Okay, it was a hilly TT, but still ...!)


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2012)

I have real difficulty differentiating Luis Leon Sanchez and Samuel Sanchez. I know they look nothing like each other, and have quite different riding styles, but they do share a surname and both ride for teams with predominantly orange kit.

I like them both. I've gone for Sammy to win the polka dots again this year, but I have a feeling Luis Leon might finish above him in GC.

d.


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2012)

Mapster5 said:


> If wiggins does win what are the chances he'll get over looked for sports personality of the year?


 
Depends on what happens at the Olympics, doesn't it? If Chris Hoy gets another gold, that might knock any other cyclists out of contention. He seems to be quite popular with the British public, most of whom still haven't even heard of Brad Wiggins. Though you'd hope that would change if he does win - most people have at least heard of the TdF.

d.


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## lukesdad (25 Jun 2012)

I like Luis Leon too, pity he can t get in a team with Fab and Jens.....what a team of nutters that would be, the suicide squad


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## Boris Bajic (25 Jun 2012)

Mapster5 said:


> If wiggins does win what are the chances he'll get over looked for sports personality of the year?


 
Maybe he will... If, if , if....

Does it mean anything though?

Pro-cycling was already on a roll before Cavendish won it. Was there a discernible rate of increase in the then rate of increase in the popularity of cycling, so to speak?

Not really...

Zara Phillips won SPotY for riding a horse around her friends' country estates a few years ago (harsh but not a lightyear from the truth), but did three-day eventing suddenly become the next televised sport sensatioion?

Lovely if Wiggins won the TdF. I'd be happy, happy, happy. But I feel that cycling has had its 'go' at getting the SPotY thing.

It's an Olympic year, so maybe Ennis, Farah.... Button or Hamilton if either of them get the F1 crown.

As an (massively) outside bet Crutchlow, Smith or Redding if any of them really get onto their PTW game.


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## lukesdad (25 Jun 2012)

If Murray won Wimbledon ?


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## yello (25 Jun 2012)

lukesdad said:


> If Murray won Wimbledon ?


 
good one ld


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## lukesdad (25 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> good one ld


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

smutchin said:


> I have real difficulty differentiating Luis Leon Sanchez and Samuel Sanchez. I know they look nothing like each other, and have quite different riding styles, but they do share a surname and both ride for teams with predominantly orange kit.
> 
> I like them both. I've gone for Sammy to win the polka dots again this year, but I have a feeling Luis Leon might finish above him in GC.
> 
> d.


 
Well, they're those bloody foreigner types. All look the same don't they.


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

lukesdad said:


> If Murray won Wimbledon ?


 
Quoted for future ridicule.


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## 400bhp (25 Jun 2012)

ColinJ said:


> _Er ...?_  (Okay, it was a hilly TT, but still ...!)


 
Exactly.

Sanchez to win the Olympic RR.


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## Silver Fox (25 Jun 2012)

Chaps, this could be useful, the ITV 4 TdeF schedule.
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/tour-de-france-2012-itv4-live-schedule/


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## ColinJ (25 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> Exactly.


Okay, how about Sanchez beating Evans and Menchov in the stage 20 TT of the 2007 Vuelta then? 

He says himself that he isn't a TT specialist but he is clearly pretty handy.


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## Noodley (25 Jun 2012)

Has winning the TdF now become less important than winning SPOTY? Who gives a flying f*ck about SPOTY?


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## beastie (25 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Has winning the TdF now become less important than winning SPOTY? Who gives a flying f*ck about SPOTY?


 
This^^^^^^^


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## ColinJ (25 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Has winning the TdF now become less important than winning SPOTY? Who gives a flying f*ck about SPOTY?


I've never like popularity contests either. Sport is about winning, not about being popular!


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## dragon72 (26 Jun 2012)

Enough about SPOTY.
Can we please get back to the kisses of death?


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## yello (26 Jun 2012)

Cycling News has a piece on the top 5 green jersey contenders....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/2012-tour-de-france-top-five-points-classification-contenders

Cavendish, Goss, Rojas, Greipel, Sagan

It notes that Boonen and Hushvold will not be riding this tour... and I didn't know that! Shows you how much attention I pay! Now, having admitted that I know nothing, I have to say that I feel the winner could easily come from outside those 5 names.

Cavendish - sure, would never bet against him
Sagan - on current form, unquestionably
Rojas - yes, I would agree, if he stays focused
Goss - maybe, I'm sure he wants it and has a point to prove
Greipel - in the mix for a couple of sprint wins definitely, but green?

I reckon there's a case to be made for others - time for me to look at the team sheets and educate myself.


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2012)

I was wondering about Rojas while picking my fantasy TdF team yesterday. He's been a bit quiet so far this year, hasn't he? I also wondered about Feillu, but I'm not convinced he's really good enough. Anyone fancy Kittel's chances?

I have a feeling the green jersey will be closely fought with several contenders in it right until the end. I think Sagan will get it though.

d.


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## yello (26 Jun 2012)

The more I read about Goss the more I think he could well be in the mix. Perhaps this year is too soon for him and GreenEdge though?


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## Nuncio (26 Jun 2012)

smutchin said:


> I also wondered about Feillu, but I'm not convinced he's really good enough.
> d.


And he hasn't been selected. (I'm assuming he's still with Vacansoleil)


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2012)

Yes, that would make it a bit more difficult for him to win anything.

d.


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## Tomba (26 Jun 2012)

400bhp said:


> I like Sanchez-dunno why.
> 
> Pity he can't TT


I agree, Sanchez for yellow


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2012)

Starting line-ups all confirmed:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tour-de-france-start-list-2


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## raindog (26 Jun 2012)

I see Voeckler made it then - hope the knee holds out.
No Gadret for AG, but he did the Giro of course - maybe he'll be at the Vuelta.

I've got a funny feeling Nibali is going to hit form and surprise everyone.


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## yello (27 Jun 2012)

A report on Cycling News suggesting what some of us here thought; Cavendish is not aiming for green. His priorities are elsewhere this year.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-not-eyeing-tour-de-france-green-jersey

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out though. If he wins a couple of sprints, places in a few more than maybe he'll find himself thinking about it.


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## raindog (27 Jun 2012)

Hoogerland still not received compensation for being hit by that car last year. Unbelievable.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hoogerland-to-sue-over-tour-de-france-2011-crash


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## smutchin (27 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> A report on Cycling News suggesting what some of us here thought; Cavendish is not aiming for green. His priorities are elsewhere this year.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-not-eyeing-tour-de-france-green-jersey
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how it pans out though. If he wins a couple of sprints, places in a few more than maybe he'll find himself thinking about it.


 
I think there's a certain amount of smokescreening going on with regard to Cav's ambitions. The green jersey isn't his priority, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't be trying to win it if he can, just that he won't go into the red to do so...

Some of quotes in this CW piece suggest a man who's quietly confident of his chances:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/533610/tour-won-t-knock-cavendish-down.html

I love the attitude that comes across in his quotes - he could take three weeks off to do some hard training but would rather be out there racing. Yet again, he shows that he's really doing the rainbow stripes proud.

One thing we can be pretty sure of is that he'll be going for the stage win on the Champs-Elysee, assuming he hasn't pulled out by then. And I don't think him pulling out is as likely as some people seem to think.

d.


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## biking_fox (27 Jun 2012)

> I was wondering about Rojas while picking my fantasy TdF team yesterday.


 
Which fantasy leagues are people using? Is their a CC mini-league? I always enjoy those, even if I'm not very good. I don't tend to have a lto of time for all the transfers stuff, so a pure league like the Velogames works better for me.


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## smutchin (27 Jun 2012)

I'm in the Velogames one. I don't know of any CC league, so... <wanders off for a moment> ...I've set one up.

The code is: 27125410


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## Buddfox (27 Jun 2012)

smutchin said:


> I think there's a certain amount of smokescreening going on with regard to Cav's ambitions. The green jersey isn't his priority, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't be trying to win it if he can, just that he won't go into the red to do so...
> 
> Some of quotes in this CW piece suggest a man who's quietly confident of his chances:
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/533610/tour-won-t-knock-cavendish-down.html
> ...


 
I agree - there's definitely a certain amount of mind games going on here. I don't expect his rivals to fall for it, but I'm unpersuaded by the overarching tone of the various interviews he's giving.


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## Dave Davenport (27 Jun 2012)

Well I'm all set; Poster with stage details on wall in line of sight from where I eat my breakfast, watched 2011 highlights dvd last night as a taster, made sure I can 'work from home' every afternoon for the next three weeks, stocked up on vin rouge & blanc (25% of 6+ in Sainbury's) and might even watch Belleville Rendezvous (again) tonight just to get into a French vibe.


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## yello (28 Jun 2012)

Europcar being investigated

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-agency-opens-investigation-into-europcar

A non-story methinks. Someone somewhere got hold of what they thought was (or could be) a story.



> "We open preliminary investigations a lot, and often, they do not lead to anything," Pérard said.


 
Probably nought more than a bit of liniment or wintergreen for Voelkler's knees!


----------



## Noodley (28 Jun 2012)

Okay, I suppose I had better put forward some predictions:
Yellow - Wiggins
Green - Sagan
Polka - Rolland
White - Taaramae
Frenchman that the nation takes to it's heart (they should do a jersey for that) - Pinot, just because he is my FdeJ "youngster to watch" this year...

I am looking forward to it being a well contested event across all the jerseys!


----------



## accountantpete (28 Jun 2012)

Just introducing the teams now on Eurosport.

Classic - Bradley asked a very long question in French and replies " Yes". He then mutters something about the compere not speaking English and they are off.


----------



## dragon72 (28 Jun 2012)

I know some of the press corps are halfwits and it must be tedious having to deal with them, but sometimes I think that Wiggins comes across as a bit of an arrogant and disrespectful git in press conferences and interviews.


----------



## Noodley (28 Jun 2012)

dragon72 said:


> I know some of the press corps are halfwits and it must be tedious having to deal with them, but sometimes I think that Wiggins comes across as a bit of an arrogant and disrespectful git in press conferences and interviews.


 
I know some of the riders are halfwits and it must be tedious having to deal with them, but sometimes the French media/Tour organisation come across as a bit arrogant and disrespectful gits


----------



## martint235 (28 Jun 2012)

accountantpete said:


> Just introducing the teams now on Eurosport.
> 
> Classic - Bradley asked a very long question in French and replies " Yes". He then mutters something about the compere not speaking English and they are off.


He hardly muttered it! "There's no point talking to you, you don't speak any English do you?". He did say it with a smile though, he wasn't getting stroppy about it.


----------



## subaqua (28 Jun 2012)

Dayvo said:


> You can have Tony Bliar back any time.


 
there are so many additions to that but i fear they may be too cruel for some to bear.
anyway back to Le Tour.

wiggo or evans for yellow- too close to call it it for moi.
Cav will get a few sprint wins but will leave before the pyrenees.


----------



## Dave Davenport (28 Jun 2012)

Just been looking at the team presentation on the official site, mrs d particuarly liked the BMC line up, no idea why.


----------



## yello (29 Jun 2012)

Wiggin's French is very good so I guess his remark was intended to bedevil, amuse, or somesuch.

There was a short interview with him on a French sports program the night before last (all in French) and he comes across as calm, intelligent and somewhat playful. He remarked that he doesn't actually like the cameras and interviews etc but is getting better at handling such situations. Notably, his 'British sense of humour' is always remarked upon and so I think that he's generally liked for this as a kind of quirkiness.

Contrast that to Cadel Evans who comes across as a little tense and somewhat serious. He puts a great deal of effort into trying to speak French but doesn't have Wiggin's casualness. I've seen Cadel be asked to speak English in an interview with French tv and my guess is that he's actually easier to understand like that, the translators can do their job then! He tends to get tongue tied in French and it can come out a bit garbled. Credit too him though, he gives it a go!


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2012)

The crazy WV Bocht 7 always make me smile:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-VlmSXjrMY


And this one, look out for the "standing up too early" at 1:15 or thereabouts... 

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMjl2hFiM0o&feature=endscreen&NR=1


Anyway, I'm off to buy my picnic chair to wave about my head during the tour...


----------



## Noodley (29 Jun 2012)

Or if there are no picnic chairs to hand, you can still have fun:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBc0SfF8JHM&feature=relmfu


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2012)

Anyone who's still wondering whether or not Cav will be staying the distance or leaving early should read today's Sport magazine - it has an A-Z of the Tour, with M for Mark Cavendish and a mini interview with Cav which includes the following exchange:



> *Would you ever pull out of the Tour to make sure you're ready for the Olympics?*
> "No, only if I get eliminated by a time cut or... no, I'll finish the Tour de France. I pulled out in my first year as a pro after a week, but I wasn't ready for the Tour. Then in 2008, I stopped for the Olympics and since then I've finished it every time."
> 
> *Do you regret stopping for the Olympics?*
> "Yeah, I never made a secret of that. I'll never do it again."


----------



## raindog (29 Jun 2012)

Excitement's mounting here - were getting bits and bobs in all the news programmes now.
Bloody love this time of year.


----------



## smutchin (29 Jun 2012)

> Many fan ask: Who Sagan favourite for Tour? Sagan: 'Silly question: Sagan not meet them until after prologue...but generally prefer blonde.'


 
https://twitter.com/#!/TweeterSagan


----------



## raindog (29 Jun 2012)




----------



## dragon72 (29 Jun 2012)

My prediction is that Nicolas Roche's tweets will contain some abysmal speling mistaks


----------



## ColinJ (29 Jun 2012)

Ha ha - I just noticed that Wiggle have signed up Didi the Devil - link.


----------



## david k (29 Jun 2012)

will the tdf be on itv replay? i know its on itv 4


----------



## Monsieur Remings (29 Jun 2012)

Wiggins, Evans and Nibali top three, but not sure which order; okay, Wiggins for yellow.

I think Sagan will pick up a stage win but Cavendish will get Green and 3 stage wins. Sanchez for KOM.

Cancellara to win the prologue tomorrow in just over 8 and a half minutes.

Looking forward to this year and will be on the Mur de Peguere for Stage 14 (Limoux to Foix) with some very tired Etape legs.


----------



## beastie (29 Jun 2012)

Come on Bradley.


----------



## biking_fox (30 Jun 2012)

Anyone know when the first rider rolls down the ramp?
In fact a list of all the stage start times would be lovely, my brief googling failed to find any
Thanks


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2012)

biking_fox said:


> Anyone know when the first rider rolls down the ramp?
> In fact a list of all the stage start times would be lovely, my brief googling failed to find any
> Thanks


You need the official site
http://www.letour.fr/indexTDF_fr.html
maps, profiles and schedules for every stage - you can mess about in there to your heart's content.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Jun 2012)

biking_fox said:


> Anyone know when the first rider rolls down the ramp?
> In fact a list of all the stage start times would be lovely, my brief googling failed to find any
> Thanks


The time schedules are here: http://www.letour.fr/2012/TDF/COURSE/us/0/etape_par_etape.html (starts between 13:00 to 16:17 GMT) It doesn't give the starting order though.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Not-so-interesting fact for the day:
39 riders on the start list joined their team for 2012.

Another-not-so-interesting fact:
Andrij Grivko is not listed in the Official Programme as being part of the Astana squad - the only rider on the start list not to be listed.

Join us tomorrow for more useless information...


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Join us tomorrow for more useless information...


 
I look forward to it. I like such stuff.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> I look forward to it. I like such stuff.


 I'd best go search for useless information then...


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

I'm starting to get a tad excited now. I've done all my chores for the day, I can relax in front of the tele with a clear conscience now.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

I have done none of my chores for the day. 

I wonder how many I can do in the next hour before ITV4 coverage starts? Getting off of here would help...  

Right, off to tidy the storeroom.


----------



## lukesdad (30 Jun 2012)

chucking it down here beers lined up


----------



## Sittingduck (30 Jun 2012)

Tesco run done at the crack of dawn, on the Dawes, laden with panniers
Laundry done
Rear wheel trued on the CUBE (don't ask)
Chain cleaned on the CUBE
Fifa 12 progress made, although I lost a cpl of games and have been knocked off top spot
Road.cc fantasy team tweaked

Bring it on!!


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

10 mins to go. Bring it on!


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Oh well the rest of the storeroom and anything else I was supposed to do can wait...


----------



## accountantpete (30 Jun 2012)

Nice and sunny - Steve Cummings currently 2nd. Early stages though.

David Millar just off


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Andrij Grivko is not listed in the Official Programme as being part of the Astana squad ...


 
But he is in 1st place at the moment...


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Can I claim first complaint of the Tour?

I am already annoyed by ITV coverage and starting off every shot of Imlach and Boardman with a side shot of the left handlebar of a bike...


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2012)

Millar just been interviewed here - hard, physical course, but not technical.


----------



## Sittingduck (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> But he is in 1st place at the moment...


 
Not any more


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Nice of Burghardt to thank everyone for turning up for his birthday


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Steve Cummings reported as saying there are a few problem potholes on the course.


----------



## accountantpete (30 Jun 2012)

Cav just away.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Sky are makign a right horlicks of the numbers - Boasson-Hagen was wearing Froome's number (105), Cav is wearing Boasson-Hagen's number (102). Wonder how long it'll take for ITV commentary team to notice?


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Ha! They just noticed!!


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> But he is in 1st place at the moment...


 
Just for a while there, the man that isn't there was winning. Cool.

They've just shown more of the interview with Wiggins that I referred to before. He really does come across well; relaxed and funny. He'll not sing 'God Save the Queen' if he wins, but he'll break dance with Francois Hollande!


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2012)

LOL - we've just had Bradley's Story. A recorded interview in French - well almost all. Bloody brilliant. Talking about getting pissed between races in France in his early years because he was lonely. Fantastic - love the bloke now. 
Shame he likes Oasis though.


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Did I understand Wiggins correctly raindog? He said - I paraphrase of course - he turned to road racing because he had to earn a living to support the family, there being no money in Olympic track golds?


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Another first day moan from me about the ITV coverage:

"Tour de (bloody) Francis" Halfords adverts! a


----------



## Andy84 (30 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> Did I understand Wiggins correctly raindog? He said - I paraphrase of course - he turned to road racing because he had to earn a living to support the family, there being no money in Olympic track golds?



I think I remember reading something like that in his autobiography.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Sherwen is in such denial about doping! Claiming that the French riders are now on the "up" again after years in the doldrums...<stewie griffin voice> why would that be Paul? Maybe something to do with the French making efforts in the fight against doping and getting beaten by dope cheats? Maybe? eh? Just maybe? <stewie griffin voice>


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Cheers Andy. I haven't read the book but I thought that was what he said.


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> Did I understand Wiggins correctly raindog? He said - I paraphrase of course - he turned to road racing because he had to earn a living to support the family, there being no money in Olympic track golds?


Absolutely - he also said he'd rather have a drink in a bar with some ordinary workers than be asked questions by journalists. 
A man after my own heart - love the bloke.


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

raindog said:


> he also said he'd rather have a drink in a bar with some ordinary workers than be asked questions by journalists.


 
Also said he had lots of friends in music too.... not Robbie Williams though 

Fair to say that he was having a laugh pretty much the whole interview. Praps that's how he handles it now. He's certainly changed!


----------



## Crackle (30 Jun 2012)

Someone strangle Sherwen and Liggett. To think I used to like them.

Sherwen: "Well I can tell you as an ex-professional, that this man is really trying"
Thanks Paul and as a couch potato of many years, I can confirm you're spot on!


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

My money's still on Cancellara for today.


----------



## stewie griffin (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Sherwen is in such denial about doping! Claiming that the French riders are now on the "up" again after years in the doldrums...<stewie griffin voice> why would that be Paul? Maybe something to do with the French making efforts in the fight against doping and getting beaten by dope cheats? Maybe? eh? Just maybe? <stewie griffin voice>


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Forget to mention, there was a bit of a confused interview with Cavendish after he'd finished. I think the interviewer confused him by asking about the race number and I'm not sure Cavendish even knew it was wrong. Anways, he said he didn't feel good but that was normal for a prologue. Asked about his form, there was a confused non-response.... I don't think Cavendish was there, understandably knackered is my guess.


----------



## subaqua (30 Jun 2012)

have been watching on eurosport HD so havent had to listen to ligget and sherwen


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Not to be Tony Martin's day is it?


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> Not to be Tony Martin's day is it?


Must be so frustrating to have trained for so long and then losing a chance of victory with a mechanical


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Just watching the riders 'warm up' on turbo trainers before the off.... jeez, I'd be knackered before I got to the start line! Evans was dripping with sweat.


----------



## Sittingduck (30 Jun 2012)

RE: Tony Martin - Grrr, he would have won it (and he's in my fantasy team)...


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

Come on Brad!


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

So what's Brad going to do? Go hell for leather you reckon?


----------



## HLaB (30 Jun 2012)

Typical when i was asked who would win today I said Tony Martins as Wiggins would be pacing himself for the GC.


----------



## Sittingduck (30 Jun 2012)

Get in!


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Good ride by Wiggins


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

There's my answer... not afraid of taking yellow so early. Hope his team mates agree!


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

Wow Brad. 6 seconds down over first half of the course. Makes more than that back in second half. Confident of his strategy


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

So, Spartacus, what you going to do?


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

I am waving my Union flag like a good'un


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

Cancellara's going to take this isn't he?


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

yello said:


> Cancellara's going to take this isn't he?


yep


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

He's certainly looking good at the minute. As is Evans.


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

whoosh.... comfortably


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

Cancellara is amazing!


----------



## Sittingduck (30 Jun 2012)

Great time for ITV4 to cut out


----------



## Smokin Joe (30 Jun 2012)

Good result for Wiggo.

He may be disappointed at not getting yellow, but having to defend it plus get Cav up for the sprints would stretch Sky too much in the first week.


----------



## Steve H (30 Jun 2012)

Wiggins will be pleased with that. Good time and doesn't have to start with the pressure of the yellow jersey tomorrow


----------



## yello (30 Jun 2012)

As much as I'd like to have seen Wiggins win, I'm actually quietly relieved. He's got some valuable time already on other GC riders but doesn't have to defend yellow from day one. I think Sky will call that a result.


----------



## YahudaMoon (30 Jun 2012)

Wiggins to finish the tour in yello and Cav in green ?

Radio Five Live' preditions, not mine.


----------



## montage (30 Jun 2012)

Wiggins seems to have done negative splits for almost all of his time trials since he went out too hard in the Vuelta - seems to be working!


----------



## raindog (30 Jun 2012)

Perfect start for Brad, and great to see Fab back in front.


----------



## Noodley (30 Jun 2012)

Mind you, the last time Cancellara was in yellow he acted like a twonk and had the peloton sit up because the roads were a little bit slidy. I hope he doesnae do that again!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (30 Jun 2012)

Perfect result for Wiggins, in that he beat all his main rivals comfortably but at the same time, Sky don't have to feel obliged to defend the yellow jersey, and the team looked powerful all round.


----------



## tigger (30 Jun 2012)

Yeah a great result for Wiggins. Agree with the OPs that yellow this early is a burden Sky are better off without. I wonder if Wiggins could have beaten Cancellara if he'd ridden the first half harder? It matters not really. 2nd on the board and not having to control the race in the next few tricky stages, plus Cav's recent slightly indifferent sprint results (for him) means his rival's teams will be keen to chase down the breakaways too. A perfect scenario for Sky to start the tour I think.

2nd, 3rd, 5th and 9th for my fantasy team today when I've mainly focused on the rest of the week, so happy all round!

Gilbert looked good, my money's on him taking the stage they made for him tomorrow.

Roll on the next few weeks! Love the Tour! I'm off to tackle my two cat 3's and a cat 5 training ride with extra vigour in the rain!


----------



## lukesdad (30 Jun 2012)

In that sort of form I fancy Cancellara for tomorrow as well.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (30 Jun 2012)

I rec Brad could have had that if he shaved off the mutton chops, they must be slowing him down.


----------



## andrew_s (30 Jun 2012)

Noodley said:


> Sky are makign a right horlicks of the numbers - Boasson-Hagen was wearing Froome's number (105), Cav is wearing Boasson-Hagen's number (102). Wonder how long it'll take for ITV commentary team to notice?


Apparently the wrong numbers had the correct names on them.
It will be down to indecision on the part of ASO whether EBH's name should be filed under B, making him number 102 as on the start list, or under H, making him number 105 and bumping Cav, Eisel and Froome down by one.

I wonder whether the numbers will be correct tomorrow?


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2012)

Been out all day so watching the highlights now. Sherwen just said Evans's cadence was 100rpm. Looked like significantly more than that to me. What does the panel reckon?

Cancellara was different class. No one really expected a different result today, did they? Shame for Tony Martin though - looked like he was on track for a fast time.

Good ride by Tejay too. He looks like he could be a threat in GC. 

d.


----------



## OilyMechanic (30 Jun 2012)

Close one involving Sagan!


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lxuIKHmKM


----------



## PpPete (30 Jun 2012)

bloody good recovery though!


----------



## OilyMechanic (30 Jun 2012)

Even better from this angle


----------



## lukesdad (30 Jun 2012)

smutchin said:


> Been out all day so watching the highlights now. Sherwen just said Evans's cadence was 100rpm. Looked like significantly more than that to me. What does the panel reckon?
> 
> Cancellara was different class. No one really expected a different result today, did they? Shame for Tony Martin though - looked like he was on track for a fast time.
> 
> ...


The only thing you can really tell from a 6km prologue is who isn t going to be a threat and there were plenty of them.


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2012)

lukesdad said:


> The only thing you can really tell from a 6km prologue is who isn t going to be a threat and there were plenty of them.



I suppose that strictly speaking, the only thing you can tell from the prologue is who is good at that particular discipline. And we already knew the answer to that before Cancellara had even left the starting ramp. 

But yes, fair point.

d.


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Sherwen just said Evans's cadence was 100rpm. Looked like significantly more than that to me.


 
I noticed it was high but wouldn't have wanted to put a number on it. Higher than the average rider, let's put it like that! It's not something I've noticed from him before but I wouldn't want to go saying he's changed his technique. In fact I hope not because, for me, the sight of Evans wrestling with his bike is on of cycling's defining sights! God forbid he ever discovers souplesse!


----------



## Noodley (1 Jul 2012)

I thought Evans looked a completely different rider - and nothing to do with his cadence. He seemed more focused, more confident than I have seen him in previous years when he has always seemed to be a little nervous. And, having looked at his team this year, I reckon he's going to be more of a challenge to Wiggins than I thought before yesterday.


----------



## Noodley (1 Jul 2012)

Anyway, I am off to marshall at a XC event today so I shall have to put forward my not-very-interesting fact early on.

So today's not-very-interesting fact is that there are 11 different wheel brands represented at the Tour across the teams. The most popular is Shimano, with 6 teams using their wheels; with Mavic the next most popular with 3 teams. Reynolds, Corima, Campagnolo and Zipp are used by 2 teams; with wheels from American Classic, Fulcrum, Bontrager and FFWD having a solitary team rep.

I bet you dinnae get such not-so-interesting facts from Sherwen and Liggett!


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I thought |Evans looked a completely different rider .


 
Are you sure it was Evans you were looking at? I mean, he does look an awful lot like Virgil Tracey....


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

There's a 12% kick at the end of today's stage, so I reckon it'll be Sagan or EBH who gets it. Or Gilbert, if he's finally hitting form?


----------



## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

I think today's going to be pretty interesting. Will be watching how Cav performs today. This wouldn't normally be a stage for him with such an uphill finish, but want to see how the weight loss is really affecting his performance.

Having said that - my money is on Gilbert today. I know he hasn't had great form so far this year, but I think today's stage was made for him.

Who's everyone else predicting today?


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Will be watching how Cav performs today. This wouldn't normally be a stage for him with such an uphill finish, but want to see how the weight loss is really affecting his performance.


The other day Cav said it would suit EBH more than himself, so he'll probably sit this one out, but then, you never know.....


----------



## Nearly there (1 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> I think today's going to be pretty interesting. Will be watching how Cav performs today. This wouldn't normally be a stage for him with such an uphill finish, but want to see how the weight loss is really affecting his performance.
> 
> Having said that - my money is on Gilbert today. I know he hasn't had great form so far this year, but I think today's stage was made for him.
> 
> Who's everyone else predicting today?


I think EBH will get this today


----------



## Nearly there (1 Jul 2012)




----------



## Nearly there (1 Jul 2012)

Sky in yellow helmets as the leading team


----------



## Flying_Monkey (1 Jul 2012)

Today will be Gilbert vs. Sagan vs. EBH... and Sagan will win. Cards on the table...


----------



## rowdin (1 Jul 2012)

Evans might have a go too.


----------



## fozy tornip (1 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Are you sure it was Evans you were looking at? I mean, he does look an awful lot like Virgil Tracey....


Pah! I see your Virgil Tracey and raise you Teb, from Galaxy Quest:






here seen on the right taking oathes of allegiance form his skin-suited domestiques


----------



## montage (1 Jul 2012)

Albassini - just because I don't think anybody has mentioned him yet


----------



## User169 (1 Jul 2012)

Looked in the mirror this morning - this year, it could be my year..


----------



## tigger (1 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Today will be Gilbert vs. Sagan vs. EBH... and Sagan will win. Cards on the table...


 
Already put mine on the table ^^^. My money's on Fast Phil. All 3 are in my fantasy team this week so I'll be delighted with that podium.


----------



## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Sky in yellow helmets as the leading team



Think they look a bit weird. Not sure I like them.


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

Except for Montage, we've all given the three favourites to win. Not very original are we?


----------



## montage (1 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Except for Montage, we've all given the three favourites to win. Not very original are we?


Also, given his form, I'd put Chavanel out there as a big contender for today.


Ha! Monfort taking a quick break to say hi to his family!


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Who's everyone else predicting today?



Completely unimaginative but:
1.Sagan
2.Evans
3.Gilbert

EBH, Cav and Wiggo to finish in the top ten. (Wiggo will chase when Evans attacks.)

d.


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

Cav sprinting for intermediate points there - I thought he said he wasn't interested in green? The cheeky monkey.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Goss, Cav, Greipel, Renshaw at the intermediate sprint. True to form of this year so far. Interesting to see them all going for the scraps - including Mark "not chasing green" Cavendish, who made intelligent use of Renshaw's wheel. 

The Lotto boys seemed to go too early - less than ideal for Greipel. 

d.


----------



## dragon72 (1 Jul 2012)

It's a shame Hushovd isn't riding this year.


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> - including Mark "not chasing green" Cavendish, who made intelligent use of Renshaw's wheel.
> .


Yates was just asked about this through the team car window, and replied "well, you never know"


----------



## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

Excitement is building now. Everyone jostling for position.


----------



## Sittingduck (1 Jul 2012)

Waymarker almost got nuked there!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (1 Jul 2012)

Twat with a camera alert, shoot him!


----------



## Sittingduck (1 Jul 2012)

Nicely done, dodging that bottle


----------



## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

Cancellara is awesome again. Didn't quite get the stage win, but fantastic time gain and balls of steel


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

That win was too easy to predict.

Hesjedal was 9th - mark my words he's going to have a good Tour.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Cancellara, Sagan and EBH all very impressive today. Evans too. 

Thought Cav might be able to stick with the lead group up the final climb but the pace was ridiculously fast, completely shredded the peloton. 

Brilliantly cheeky winner's salute by Sagan. 

d.


----------



## YahudaMoon (1 Jul 2012)

Whats with the 'birdie song' finish ?

Not a good look >>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Nearly there (1 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Think they look a bit weird. Not sure I like them.


Me neither prefer team colours + clashed with movistar


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2012)

That was a brutal finish. I thought some were going to get off and walk 

EBH gave it a real good go I thought, just not enough left in the tank. Sagan looked comfortable.


----------



## Sittingduck (1 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That was a brutal finish. I thought some were going to get off and walk
> 
> EBH gave it a real good go I thought, just not enough left in the tank. Sagan looked comfortable.


 
Looked pretty steep didn't it!

I would be angry if I was Canca', with Sagan sitting on my wheel and refusing to help out. I suppose that's just how it is. Felt sorry for Canca' though. He deserved the win!


----------



## tigger (1 Jul 2012)

Well Sagan made that look easy. Shame for Cancellara, did all the work and didn't even get any time. Noted Hesjedal at 9th too.


----------



## Noodley (1 Jul 2012)

All part of the sport, sitting on someone's wheel. Too bad if you lose out.


----------



## raindog (1 Jul 2012)

Help out? Cancellara was flat out, Sagan did well to hang on to his wheel, but he was always going to win the sprint. Every man for himself over a short distance like that. If Cancellara had backed off and let the chasing group catch up, Sagan would still have won and Fab would have known that, so his only chance for the win was to put the pedal down and hope for the best. That's just bike racing.


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2012)

When you consider the gap there was between the 3 of them and the peloton at one point then you realise there was gamesmanship going on at the front as they approached the finish line. I thought for a moment they'd overdone it and Evans et al were going to catch them but Cancellara is too seasoned a pro to make a mistake like that. I guess he knew Sagan would be too strong for him but he had to give it a go. 

That's the first time I've seen Sagan and he does look strong. I'll be interested to see how he goes in a bunch sprint.


----------



## ColinJ (1 Jul 2012)

Sagan has been winning loads of races over the past year and is very impressive.

I was getting really nervous in that last half hour or so! There was so much movement in the bunch, dodgy street furniture, stupid spectators, bottles in the road etc. I really don't want to see riders crashing and being taken off in ambulances again this year.

I do feel a bit sorry for Cancellara. It's not the first time that I've watched him tow a better sprinter to the finish line, but what can he do? If he doesn't manage to jump away hard enough to get a gap that they can't close then they just sit on him and beat him in the finish.


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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> If Cancellara had backed off and let the chasing group catch up, Sagan would still have won and Fab would have known that, so his only chance for the win was to put the pedal down and hope for the best. That's just bike racing.


 
Yes, you could almost see that thought process going through his mind when for a split second it looked like he was sitting up to force Sagan to come through, but quickly realised just how close behind the bunch was.

He did well to hold off EBH, but then EBH had spent himself catching the two leaders - and it was a great effort that he put in to manage that.

d.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I do feel a bit sorry for Cancellara. It's not the first time that I've watched him tow a better sprinter to the finish line, but what can he do? If he doesn't manage to jump away hard enough to get a gap that they can't close then they just sit on him and beat him in the finish.


 
To be fair, Sagan did extremely well to hold on to Cancellara when he attacked - it was a very intelligent, mature move by a young, supposedly inexperienced rider. Didn't see anyone else react as quickly as Sagan - Gilbert was caught napping.

d.


----------



## ColinJ (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> To be fair, Sagan did extremely well to hold on to Cancellara when he attacked - it was a very intelligent, mature move by a young, supposedly inexperienced rider. Didn't see anyone else react as quickly as Sagan - Gilbert was caught napping.
> 
> d.


_Exactly_ - he did what he had to do. Cancellara almost got away but Sagan had the strength to get on his wheel and stay there. EBH did very well to get back up there, but he burned himself out doing it.


----------



## yello (1 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I thought for a moment they'd overdone it and Evans et al were going to catch them


 
Just seen it again and it was Gilbert not Evans... I just saw the BMC shirt closing and thought it was Evans since he had been riding strongly.

Btw, Merckx has gone for Nibali and Chavanel for Menchov.


----------



## Ajay (1 Jul 2012)

Just going back to yesterday's prologue (sorry), anyone know why Evans carried a bidon round the 6km course? With the obsession to streamline everything for the TT it seemed a little odd. Can only think it's because his sponsor wants to flog their aero bottles.


----------



## Basil.B (1 Jul 2012)

Watching TDF on ITV4, the picture quality is horrendous.
Like watching an old worn out video tape!


----------



## Sittingduck (1 Jul 2012)

Basil.B said:


> Watching TDF on ITV4, the picture quality is horrendous.
> Like watching an old worn out video tape!


 
I thought it was my TV / dodgy freeview box!


----------



## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

Ajay said:


> Just going back to yesterday's prologue (sorry), anyone know why Evans carried a bidon round the 6km course? With the obsession to streamline everything for the TT it seemed a little odd. Can only think it's because his sponsor wants to flog their aero bottles.



He keeps his battery in there for his electric motor ;-)


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## Noodley (1 Jul 2012)

There is some evidence that having a bottle on the bike helps to make it go faster over short courses.


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## Steve H (1 Jul 2012)

Heart over head - I'm backing Cav for tomorrow's flat stage.

Just a shame I have to go to work and can't watch it live tomorrow.


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## yello (1 Jul 2012)

ajay, are you sure it was a water bottle? I saw a white box like thing at the bottom of the seat tube/above the bottom bracket that I assumed to be a power meter or somesuch.


----------



## ColinJ (1 Jul 2012)

Ajay said:


> Just going back to yesterday's prologue (sorry) ...


Don't mention the prologue! I fired up Eurosport Player only to see a replay of Cancellara crossing the finish line. I was an hour late, a CET/BST mix up!


Sittingduck said:


> I thought it was my TV / dodgy freeview box!


Since Hebden Bridge got Freeview last September, it has been very obvious to me that ITV use a horribly low bitrate to squeeze more channels in. BBC1 isn't too bad, BBC2 and Channel 4 seem slightly lower quality, BBC3/4 slightly lower still.


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## Herzog (1 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> ajay, are you sure it was a water bottle? I saw a white box like thing at the bottom of the seat tube/above the bottom bracket that I assumed to be a power meter or somesuch.


 
I thought it was a 1.5L clear plastic watee bottle (e.g., Evian, not a bidon).


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## ColinJ (1 Jul 2012)

Herzog said:


> I thought it was a 1.5L clear plastic watee bottle (e.g., Evian, not a bidon).


You are discussing two different bottles!

The one in the road was definitely a big Evian (whatever) bottle.

Ajay was asking why Evans had a bottle on his bike for a very short prologue ride!


----------



## Ajay (1 Jul 2012)




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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Maybe it was the one he forgot to take on the Dauphiné TT. 

d.


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## ColinJ (1 Jul 2012)

Ajay said:


>


Well spotted!

It would surprise me if they hadn't thought about it. Maybe they have tested it in a wind tunnel and found out that it _somehow_ aids airflow?


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## Doseone (1 Jul 2012)

That was a mother of a steep hill at the end. Evans looked like he was itching to do something towards the finish and Brad looked stuffed afterwards. I think they had a hard day at work!

Sorry to go back to yesterday, but I'm late to this thread thought Brad did really well, Martin would possibly have pipped it if he hadn't had a mechanical and Menchov, Hesjedal and Nibali all put down markers and this ain't just going to be the Brad and Cuddles show. Well done to FC though and for his efforts today.

Interesting that Cav had a pop at the intermediate - he's maybe a bit keener on green than he's been letting on.


----------



## Speicher (1 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Well spotted!
> 
> It would surprise me if they hadn't thought about it. Maybe they have tested it in a wind tunnel and found out that it _somehow_ aids airflow?


 
This is an intelligent guess here: If Cadel Evans has long "practice" runs ie 50kms or 80kms,(on his time trial bike) he would carry a full bottle of water. So when he does the shorter time trails, he still has the water bottle, otherwise the bike would handle slightly differently. This slight difference on the corners could add up to one second or so.


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## tigger (1 Jul 2012)

Speicher said:


> This is an intelligent guess here: If Cadel Evans has long "practice" runs ie 50kms or 80kms,(on his time trial bike) he would carry a full bottle of water. So when he does the shorter time trails, he still has the water bottle, otherwise the bike would handle slightly differently. This slight difference on the corners could add up to one second or so.


 
Modest! 

What about when the bottle is emptied on a long TT? It would handle differently at the end of the TT and have little or no effect on balance


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## Speicher (1 Jul 2012)

On a longer tt the cumulative seconds are diminutive compared to those on a shorter tt.


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## 400bhp (1 Jul 2012)

tigger said:


> Modest!
> 
> What about when the bottle is emptied on a long TT? It would handle differently at the end of the TT and have little or no effect on balance


 
[Arguably] less of an issue on a longer TT when your average speed is lower and bottles can be replaced.

Seems like a good educated guess by Speicher.


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## Speicher (1 Jul 2012)

400bhp said:


> [Arguably] less of an issue on a longer TT when your average speed is lower and bottles can be replaced.
> 
> Seems like a good educated guess by Speicher.


Thank you 400bhp. Yes, he would replace the bottles on a longer tt. Yesterday's tt was a short tt. I think there are some much longer ones later in the Tour.


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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Speicher said:


> Yes, he would replace the bottles on a longer tt.



How? No contact with the team car is allowed. (AIUI you're allowed contact with the team car for feeding on very long TTs, but the TdF TTs aren't long enough for that.)

When Evans lost a bottle early in the Dauphiné TT, he wasn't able to replace it, and he clearly suffered as a result. 

d.


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## beastie (1 Jul 2012)

Speicher said:


> This is an intelligent guess here: If Cadel Evans has long "practice" runs ie 50kms or 80kms,(on his time trial bike) he would carry a full bottle of water. So when he does the shorter time trails, he still has the water bottle, otherwise the bike would handle slightly differently. This slight difference on the corners could add up to one second or so.


 
Hmmnnn.... that sounds like rubbish to me. It has to be aero related, at that speed nearly all the energy produced is pushing air. Or the sponsor thing.


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## beastie (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> How? No contact with the team car is allowed.
> 
> d.


There is a feed zone midway on the longer TT


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## Speicher (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> How? No contact with the team car is allowed.
> 
> When Evans lost a bottle early in the Dauphiné TT, he wasn't able to replace it, and he clearly suffered as a result.
> 
> d.


 oops, I meant when he is practicing a longer time trial.


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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> There is a feed zone midway on the longer TT



OK, I didn't know that. 

So how come he didn't replace his bottle on the Dauphiné TT - no feed zone, even though it was the same length as the longer TdF TT?

d.


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## beastie (1 Jul 2012)

I was a touch concerned with Wiggins losing position before the final climb, but he made up a lot of ground to finish well up there. After looking at the course in detail again, it may well be more interesting than many have predicted. There are plenty opportunities to make smallish gains before the first ITT where I think Evans will be very aggresive, and then some monster stages in the hills. He will like the stages where they finish on a descent as well. If Nibali and Evans get together over the top Wiggins will be under big pressure.


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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

Btw, I've just checked the official website and there are indeed feed zones on both the longer TTs. 

Slightly surprised by that - I'd have thought they'd lose too much time messing with musettes. But what do I know... 

d.


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## beastie (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> OK, I didn't know that.
> 
> So how come he didn't replace his bottle on the Dauphiné TT - no feed zone, even though it was the same length as the longer TdF TT?
> 
> d.


 
There was a feed zone IIRC but either the bottle came out after that or he missed picking up a new one.


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## beastie (1 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Btw, I've just checked the official website and there are indeed feed zones on both the longer TTs.
> 
> Slightly surprised by that - I'd have thought they'd lose too much time messing with musettes. But what do I know...
> 
> d.


 
Mainly for a fresh bidon, but I think most would not bother.


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## smutchin (1 Jul 2012)

It must be quite an art grabbing a new bottle at TTing speed. 

d.


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## raindog (2 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Slightly surprised by that - I'd have thought they'd lose too much time messing with musettes. But what do I know...


I think it just means at a certain point the cars are allowed alongside to hand them something.


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## raindog (2 Jul 2012)

Poor Froome punctured with about 10 ks to go when the speed was really high. Porte dropped back to help, but they lost more than a minute on GC.


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

Say what you like about Evans' bidon, personally I prefer his patent leather shoes.


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## Noodley (2 Jul 2012)

Could I just point out that I gave the answer to the bidon question - there is some evidence to suggest that having a bottle makes it faster over shorter courses (due to aero factors). I have no idea how it all works, but I remember reading a few articles about it. And if anyone ask for "a source", too bad cos I ain't gonna supply one - do your own google search!


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## Noodley (2 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting facts are to do with the White Jersey, the newest of the current jerseys, having started in 1975.
Italian riders have won the most - 6
France, Spain and Holland - 5 (although you have to go back to 1992 to find the last Dutch winner!)
Germany - 4
Luxembourg - 3
US, Columbia and Russia - 2
Australia, Mexico and Ukraine - 1
3 riders have won the yellow and white jerseys in the same year:
Fignon 1983
Ullrich 1997
Contador 2007
And 2 riders have won the white jersey 3 times:
Ullrich 1996-1998 (1st, 2nd and 2nd in the Tour)
Andy Schleck 2008-2010 (12th, 2nd and 2nd in the Tour)
The lowest placed overall winner of the White Jersey was 24th in 1989 when it was won by Philippot.


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

Careful Noodley, that's dangerously close to interesting....

...or perhaps I'm just becoming a bit of a train spotter??

I didn't realise Ulrich had taken it 3 times though.


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## zimzum42 (2 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Could I just point out that I gave the answer to the bidon question - there is some evidence to suggest that having a bottle makes it faster over shorter courses (due to aero factors). I have no idea how it all works, but I remember reading a few articles about it. And if anyone ask for "a source", too bad cos I ain't gonna supply one - do your own google search!


Isn't it about adding weight to increase momentum or something?


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## Noodley (2 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Careful Noodley, that's dangerously close to interesting....
> 
> ...or perhaps I'm just becoming a bit of a train spotter??
> 
> I didn't realise Ulrich had taken it 3 times though.


 
It's amazing the crap you can find out from the Official Guide if you take time to look at it...and have the pressure of having to supply you with not-very-interesting facts on a daily basis.  But I shall endeavour to have a not-very-interesting fact or facts on everyday of this year's Tour.


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## dragon72 (2 Jul 2012)

For a number of reasons I can't really follow live streaming video of the action during the work week, so I'm following the data updates in the live section of www.letour.fr and I have to say that ASO have done a great job with the site this year. Chapeau.


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## raindog (2 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> But I shall endeavour to have a not-very-interesting fact or facts on everyday of this year's Tour.


Keep it up N - I'm already full of useless facts, but I love collecting new ones.


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## MickL (2 Jul 2012)

Dam the last 10k was great racing from all the teams


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

Superb victory!What a guy. Does he need a lead out? Hell no. Not when you've got Griepel's wheel!


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## Hacienda71 (2 Jul 2012)

Cav


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## Cheddar George (2 Jul 2012)

Wooohooo .....


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## Twizit (2 Jul 2012)

Superb by Cav. No train needed - just use someone else's.... How p*****d off did Griepel look at the end 

God bless Sky Go on the iphone - live Eurosport is great when you're at work.....


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2012)

Unbelievable. What a sprint.

The speed of the peloton on the run-in was freakin' scary.

d.


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## montage (2 Jul 2012)

and that is why he is the world champ


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

I'm hugely impressed, really I am. I think Cavendish is changing his game. I like that, a lot.


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## raindog (2 Jul 2012)

ROFLMAO that's got to be one of his best wins ever. Who needs a train when you've got Greipel's back wheel. Nice one Mark.


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## Kiwiavenger (2 Jul 2012)

will definatly need to watch the highlights tonight! the wife will be banished to the kitchen for the evening!


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

He was so relaxed and happy in the interview. A changed guy from previous years. Something's agreeing with him; relationship, baby, Sky - who knows but it's evident he's matured. Not even a hint of a problem with Sky going for yellow and he being left to his own devices (taking comparatively to HTC there).

Good lord, I'm almost proud of him


----------



## broomwagon (2 Jul 2012)

"Three out and the speed is touching 45 mph for the last kilometer" Amazing!


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

Here in France, the tele does - as a part of the round up of the days action - a program about the history of the tour. It's just been on and it showed footage (from 1961) of riders raiding a café for water, beer, wine... anything to drink. I've read about it before but it really is one helluva sight to behold! Bikes dumped at the side of the road, riders rushing into the café, jersey pockets being stuffed with glass bottles, away again!!

Oh, and the jerseys! I'd love one just like any one of them! Doesn't matter which team!


----------



## Hacienda71 (2 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Here in France, the tele does - as a part of the round up of the days action - a program about the history of the tour. It's just been on and it showed footage (from 1961) of riders raiding a café for water, beer, wine... anything to drink. I've read about it before but it really is one helluva sight to behold! Bikes dumped at the side of the road, riders rushing into the café, jersey pockets being stuffed with glass bottles, away again!!
> 
> Oh, and the jerseys! I'd love one just like any one of them! Doesn't matter which team!


 
Cancellara was seen shoving a bottle of San Pelegrino down the back of his jersey at one point. Not quite the same but a bit odd.


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## zizou (2 Jul 2012)

Great victory today ranks alongside one of his best.

In the absence of a train like highroad the final few KM are really chaotic at the moment just waiting on an accident to happen. Anyone see the idiot (from Argos Shimano i think) drop his bidon on the corner with the bouncing through the peloton...could have caused a major pile up!



yello said:


> Here in France, the tele does - as a part of the round up of the days action - a program about the history of the tour. It's just been on and it showed footage (from 1961) of riders raiding a café for water, beer, wine... anything to drink. I've read about it before but it really is one helluva sight to behold! Bikes dumped at the side of the road, riders rushing into the café, jersey pockets being stuffed with glass bottles, away again!!
> 
> Oh, and the jerseys! I'd love one just like any one of them! Doesn't matter which team!


 

Some footage about 5 minutes into this 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3EHJjHP6yc


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## frayBentos59 (2 Jul 2012)

using his old 'friend' and beating him on the line must have made that victory even more satisfying. Still absolutley astounded by a terrrific victory


----------



## lukesdad (2 Jul 2012)

Anybody know what happened to Kittel ? Seemed a long way out to run out of gas, and it wasn't exactly flat out all day was it.


----------



## brockers (2 Jul 2012)

^^ A stomach bug, apparently


----------



## yello (2 Jul 2012)

David Millar was suffering too, also stomach. He mentioned at the prologue that he'd been ill.


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## Orange (2 Jul 2012)

Reading this during ITV4's adverts and now I know what I've got to look forward to! Go Cav!

BTW, anyone else unable to stop constantly humming the theme tune during their commute home? Somehow it seems more unavoidable in the wet, like today.


----------



## martint235 (2 Jul 2012)

Wow! That is all. Just wow!


----------



## sheddy (2 Jul 2012)

anyone else with poor quality ITV4 freeview pictures ? The motorbike shots are awful. Why ?


----------



## just jim (2 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> Wow! That is all. Just wow!


Couldn't have put that better myself! Didn't realise Sky had rolled out teleportation yet...


----------



## frayBentos59 (2 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Anybody know what happened to Kittel ? Seemed a long way out to run out of gas, and it wasn't exactly flat out all day was it.


 he's tweeted...

golden rule for me today: Never trust a fart. I'm happy that I finished the race but last night has taken its toll so no sprint today.

Lovely.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2012)

Orange said:


> Reading this during ITV4's adverts and now I know what I've got to look forward to! Go Cav!
> 
> BTW, anyone else unable to stop constantly humming the theme tune during their commute home? Somehow it seems more unavoidable in the wet, like today.


 
Not humming it yet but that final fluffed accordion note has been bothering me for 2 years now! I think the player just got bored playing the same notes again and again and failed an attempt at a grace note.

Incredible timing from Cavendish this afternoon. If he has lost top-end speed he looked like he was really aware of what he was capable of.


----------



## Paul_L (2 Jul 2012)

Top win. Watched the highlights without knowing the result. Cav's showing real guile and maturity now he's only got limited team support. Bernie and EBH down one side, but he picked his own lead out with Greipel.

Super stuff. Still reckon Sagan for green though. There appear to be a few more undulating sprint stages this year.


----------



## ColinJ (2 Jul 2012)

sheddy said:


> anyone else with poor quality ITV4 freeview pictures ? The motorbike shots are awful. Why ?


We discussed this a few pages back. Basically, there is a certain amount of bandwidth available to broadcasters and they can use that to broadcast a few channels with higher picture quality or many more channels with lower quality. ITV have gone for quantity rather than quality!

The bitrate they use for ITV4 on Freeview is much lower than that used by BBC1 (for example) and the effect is obvious when the picture being displayed is changing rapidly - there is a digital bottleneck which prevents the picture data getting through fast enough and the picture breaks up into pixellated blocks which are horrid to look at.

Oh, and yes - a great win by Cavendish!


----------



## Steve H (2 Jul 2012)

Been at work all day, so a bit behind everyone with my viewing. I recorded the live show and have just watched in full, but fast forwarding the adverts. That has got to be the most exciting last 10kms of any race I've seen. GC teams fighting to keep their teams out of trouble, sprint teams fighting to get their lead out trains in place. Lots of jostling, lots of overtaking. Fantastic!

A totally different situation to the last few years where a 9 man HTC train dominated the sprint stages and all other trains had to really fight hard to get a look in. I think all the flat stages are going to be great to watch this year and I think we will see a lot of different winners.

Awesome to see Cav win this one. Brilliant tactics and awareness from him to spot the right wheels to follow with very little support. To be fair he did have a bit of luck, and I'm not sure he'll take 5 stage wins like previous years, but I really hope he continues this kind of combat because it makes great watching!


----------



## Keith Oates (2 Jul 2012)

A good win by Cav, it shows that he can still get a powerful finish even with the loss of weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Smokin Joe (2 Jul 2012)

I don't know why people express surprise when Cav wins without a lead-out train, he's done it many times before. It obviously helps to have one, but the man is not just a very fast sprinter, he's also a very clever and tactically aware rider.


----------



## Crackle (2 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> I don't know why people express surprise when Cav wins without a lead-out train, he's done it many times before. It obviously helps to have one, but the man is not just a very fast sprinter, he's also a very clever and tactically aware rider.


yep, as Boardman said, he didn't have a lead out train at HTC so he could win, he had it because he did win.


----------



## PpPete (2 Jul 2012)

Amused me the ES commentator (Harmon?) didn't see that one coming...
Sure it wasn't a certainty at 500m to go, but there was a yellow helmet bobbing about behind the leaders and I was already saying "you cheeky beggar" as he hopped off the remains of the Greenedge train (been there, done that in Copenhagen) and jumped onto Greipel's wheel.
Seems he used Freire's wheel even before that to haul himself up from 1k to go.

TBH I didnt think he didnt look quite as dominant at the end as he might have done last season, but who cares, half a wheel is still a win, and if the reported weight loss is in pursuit of the Olympic gold then so be it.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> I don't know why people express surprise when Cav wins without a lead-out train, he's done it many times before.


 
That comes across a bit sniffy, if you don't mind me saying - he's won more frequently _with_ a train, no? The HTC train was an impressive sight and a feature of past TdFs so, come on, cut the casual viewer some slack eh? Not everyone has a knowledge of all Cavendish's wins. Even commentators post race ask him about it.



> the man is not just a very fast sprinter, he's also a very clever and tactically aware rider.


 
And becoming more so. I'm genuinely thrilled by his development. I'm hoping he'll emulate Boonen and win classics (or should I say more classics, just in case).


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

Any FPs for today's stage?
There are alot of small lumps near the end, so I think I'll go with Gilbert. He's got to win again sometime or other. Surely. Hasn't he?


----------



## Steve H (3 Jul 2012)

Think I'm going to predict Sagan for another stage win today.


----------



## Noodley (3 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting facts are in relation to national clean sweep podiums; only 2 nations have ever had the 1-2-3 in the Tour. 
Unsurprisingly France had the clean sweep in the early years, with 1903, 1905, 1906, 1907 and 1911 - not surprising given the extra help and skullduggery involved in early tours and the limited number of non-French riders taking part.
The only other nation to manage a clean sweep of the podium is Belgium in 1920.
Since 1920, France is the only nation to have 1-2-3 on the podium, which happened in 1947. That makes this tour the 65th anniversary since a single nation occupied the top placings.


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## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

I'm gonna go out on a limb with Chavanel today. He'll be really hungry for it after missing out in stage 1 and the prologue.

Oh, and who'd bet against Spartacus making another bid to build a lead ahead of the mountains?


----------



## iLB (3 Jul 2012)

Tommy Voeckler or someone else French from a break away today,


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb with Chavanel today.


 
I would very much like this to be true, but I think Gilbert or Sagan is more likely. The two [edit: three!] Cat 4s and the Cat 3 before the finish are going to rip the peloton to pieces.

d.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I would very much like this to be true, but I think Gilbert or Sagan is more likely. The two Cat 4s and the Cat 3 before the finish are going to rip the peloton to pieces.
> 
> d.


 
Yes I have those on my FL team for today too  


Looking forward to today's stage, should be a proper ding dong.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

I wonder if Nibali might have a pop today as well...

d.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

Superb description from Cav himself on yesterday's win
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-victory-in-rainbow-jersey-is-special
and I love this....
" Every day when training or racing I look down at these rainbow bands once every few minutes and they give me a great sense of pride. I just want to do the jersey justice."


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## lukesdad (3 Jul 2012)

well since its top tipsters day 

Ill throw Valverde into the hat.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

Morkov in the escape AGAIN! Does this guy not do tired?


----------



## tigger (3 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> well since its top tipsters day
> 
> Ill throw Valverde into the hat.


 
Me too


----------



## PaulB (3 Jul 2012)

Never mind all this 'who's going to win' stuff. Let's have a mass debate on who we think is going to be the Lantern Rouge. My favoured people are the basques so I'm going for Gorka Verdugo.
http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2012/us/riders/euskaltel-euskadi/verdugo-gorka.html


----------



## just jim (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb with Chavanel today. He'll be really hungry for it after missing out in stage 1 and the prologue.
> 
> Oh, and who'd bet against Spartacus making another bid to build a lead ahead of the mountains?


Good bet, but I also hope to see some of Wiggin's special volcano training paying off.


----------



## Beebo (3 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting facts are in relation to national clean sweep podiums; only 2 nations have ever had the 1-2-3 in the Tour.
> Unsurprisingly France had the clean sweep in the early years, with 1903, 1905, 1906, 1907 and 1911 - not surprising given the extra help and skullduggery involved in early tours and the limited number of non-French riders taking part.
> The only other nation to manage a clean sweep of the podium is Belgium in 1920.
> Since 1920, France is the only nation to have 1-2-3 on the podium, which happened in 1947. That makes this tour the 65th anniversary since a single nation occupied the top placings.


 
Slow down Noodley, that's too many facts in one email, you'll need to ration your facts if you want to make it to Paris.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb with Chavanel today.


Chav's a good call for this stage.


----------



## BrumJim (3 Jul 2012)

I'll plump for Edvald Boasson Hagen then, if no one else has mentioned him.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

BrumJim said:


> I'll plump for Edvald Boasson Hagen then, if no one else has mentioned him.


 
I don't think that's going to be his job today... Mollema is another one who might go well today. Kinda wish I'd put him in my team instead of EBH now.

Big crash at 79km, but looks like all affected back with the peloton now.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Big crash at 79km, but looks like all affected back with the peloton now.


 
Was there? Must have missed it!

It's an interesting course today. A few tough short little climbs towards the end. Singularly, perhaps nothing that'd worry most of them but the cumulative effect might make it interesting. A stage for somebody like Edvald Boasson Hagen, and/or perhaps evens Evans looking for a few seconds.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Hmmmm, I thought Cavendish over reacted a little there, on the intermediate sprint. Sure, he was blocked/checked but I don't really think it warranted that reaction.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Hmmmm, I thought Cavendish over reacted a little there, on the intermediate sprint. Sure, he was blocked/checked but I don't really think it warranted that reaction.


 
What'd he do? I am following on a live text and all they said was he won the points...


Isn't it about time the peloton started the chase?


----------



## montage (3 Jul 2012)

Valverde for today for me


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Now that's a big pile up!

Edit: no major hold up though, nobody badly hurt, Siutsou (Sky) still down though. Farrar had to change bike and is now playing catch up.


----------



## montage (3 Jul 2012)

My dark horse pick for today is Devenyns


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Now that's a big pile up!


 
Sagan down and changed bike wheel?


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> What'd he do? I am following on a live text and all they said was he won the points...


Cav was accelerating hard and negociating a raised bit in the middle of the road when Van Hummel chopped over towards him, so Cav had a few words. Nothing too serious, and nowt to worry about.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Sagan down and changed bike wheel?


Don't think he went down, but he did puncture.


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Now that's a big pile up!
> 
> Edit: no major hold up though, nobody badly hurt, Siutsou (Sky) still down though. Farrar had to change bike and is now playing catch up.


 
Sivtsov out of the Tour.


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Down think he went down, but he did puncture.


 
Aye, so it seems.


----------



## Basil.B (3 Jul 2012)

Like _Ag2r La Mondiale's_ yellow cycling shoes!


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

Siutsou abandoned - bit of a blow for Brad, that.

EDIT
sorry LosingFocus - didn't notice you'd mentioned it


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

Ooooh, big incident right there. Loads down, few injured.

Rojas is now out of the Tour.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Rojas out now too, in that last pile up.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

sounds like carnage out there based on the live text


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

I'm trying to work out who is where, now the peloton is split

Looks like Cavendish is in the last group, but they're working to get back. Tall order me thinks.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

The road ahead sounds tricky. This could be an interesting run in. Getting edgy and nervous out there too.

Long shot - Grivko to stay away??


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> The road ahead sounds tricky. This could be an interesting run in. Getting edgy and nervous out there too.
> 
> Long shot - Grivko to stay away??


 

Has to be a possibility


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

You'd never guess this was Morkov's third breakaway in three days, would you...


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Not now. I reckon the show's about over.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Chavanel going for it. Too soon I reckon, he did that.. Sunday was it??

Doesn't look to be a response from Cancellera et al.

Nah, he's stuffed. 1km to go. Usual suspects in place.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Sagan is just SO strong.

Crash in the peloton, Wiggins looses time


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

Superb finish by Sagan.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Wiggins fell and hit the barrier. He's okay but has he lost time??


----------



## accountantpete (3 Jul 2012)

Wiggins hopefully will be given the same time - I rather think he craftily got "impeded" by the crash.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Sagan is just SO strong.
> 
> Crash in the peloton, Wiggins looses time


 
Shouldn't lose time for a crash in last three clicks right?


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

I dunno yet. I didn't think he'd loose time but I haven't seen his time confirmed yet.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Not looking good for Voekler. His knee playing up, he's obviously not 100%


----------



## lukesdad (3 Jul 2012)

All too easy hmm


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

Sagan makes me smile. Superb performance. What a star. Given that he seems to be able to get near enough the front on flat stages to pick up points there too, you'd have to say he's going to be extremely hard to beat for the green jersey. As long as he can make it through the mountains...

d.


----------



## frayBentos59 (3 Jul 2012)

wiggo played a little bit of a blinder there. shouldnt lose any time now.

i may well be a bit of a miserable old bugger now(at 33), but i'm not liking this silly arm waving/ walking/ chicken celebrations at the end. Impressive victory all the same


----------



## Jen Dvorak (3 Jul 2012)

Is Sagan an a__hole or is his attitude lost in translation? Reminds me of the riders who don't wave to you unless you have on a team kit and riding full carbon  Perhaps LA is his role model  Sagan is looking amazing none the less.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> All too easy hmm


 
Don't. Just don't 

There's already a long thread on CN about it!


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Sagan makes me smile. Superb performance. What a star. Given that he seems to be able to get near enough the front on flat stages to pick up points there too, you'd have to say he's going to be extremely hard to beat for the green jersey. As long as he can make it through the mountains...
> 
> d.


 
And the intermediates. Which will probably prove decisive in this Tour.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

Sagan is unbeatable at the moment on this kind of finish - a bit like Gilbert last year.

Chaotic stage though, eh?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> All too easy hmm


 
I'll wait to get suspicious until he starts doing that in the mountains too.

d.


----------



## LosingFocus (3 Jul 2012)

accountantpete said:


> Wiggins hopefully will be given the same time - I rather think he craftily got "impeded" by the crash.


 
Good call, I thought it was Wiggins who hit the barrier but he was further back.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

No, Wiggins doesn't loose time.


----------



## Nearly there (3 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> All too easy hmm


Are people getting suspicious of how good sagan is?


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> I thought it was Wiggins who hit the barrier but he was further back.


 
The commentators here said it was he but when I watched it again I didn't think it was him. Some other lanky sod in Sky kit!


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Are people getting suspicious of how good sagan is?


 
Yes is the simple answer.

Sadly it's a sign of the times. It always makes some people ask questions when it's made to look easy.


----------



## PpPete (3 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> i may well be a bit of a miserable old bugger now(at 33), but i'm not liking this silly arm waving/ walking/ chicken celebrations at the end. Impressive victory all the same


 
I'm not a fan of it either, but with that much talent, strength and tactical nous in one so young I am prepared to forgive. After all, silly finishing gestures were not exactly unknown from another sprinter who has matured rather well....


----------



## lukesdad (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Yes is the simple answer.
> 
> Sadly it's a sign of the times. It always makes some people ask questions when it's made to look easy.


 
Don't forget the chase back on after the puncture, getting, through the peleton and finishing that fresh ?
You bet I'm asking questions.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

From the CyclingNews live text summary thing, on Sagan....



> He looked as fresh as a daisy at the finish line despite a taxing final 35 kilometres that featured several short and steep climbs and technical descents.
> 
> While much of the chasing pack floundered in a last-gasp crash behind, Sagan swept imperiously around the outside of Michael Albasini, leaving his rivals for dead.


----------



## Nearly there (3 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Don't forget the chase back on after the puncture, getting, through the peleton and finishing that fresh ?
> You bet I'm asking questions.


Just watched the finish again man he looked real fresh as he crossed the line compared to EBH


----------



## lukesdad (3 Jul 2012)

The comparison with Gilbert and funnily enough Boonen this year is an interesting one.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

That finish was unbelievable. Sagan had enough time to boil an egg before Eddy crossed the line.


----------



## jdtate101 (3 Jul 2012)

I too am beginning to question Sagan's 'preparation'. On his two stage victories he's not even looked out of breath or even a mild sweat. Either he's a genetic freak or he's doped. All the other riders involved in the finishes (even EVB and Spartacus) have looked tired given the hard and very fast finishes and steep grades, but not Sagan. I smell something here. I would dearly love to believe he's THAT good, but to look that fresh at the end....hmmm.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb with Chavanel today.


 
I was really willing him on when he attacked. It was a great move but suicidal and didn't really have much chance of success. Shame.

d.


----------



## oldroadman (3 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> The commentators here said it was he but when I watched it again I didn't think it was him. *Some other lanky sod in Sky kit*!


 
Christian Knees, BWs right hand man. Rides a very similar size bike, so is cover in case of serious problems. BW was with a small group who were impeded behind the fall, and under the rules get the same time as the group they were with, if inside the last 3km. In days of old (well, not that old) it was last km. In this case it would have been the same. Things used to get a bit manic in stage races before that rule was brought in.

Is it me, or are riders more agressive with positioning and use of space now? I can recall when you were given a bit of leeway, now it seems if you leave a 30cm gap, some loony wants to get into it. The scraps to get on the front are pretty full on, plenty of heads, albows, kess, and the like, very rough with much less respect for fellow professionals than there used to be.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> Never mind all this 'who's going to win' stuff. Let's have a mass debate on who we think is going to be the Lantern Rouge. My favoured people are the basques so I'm going for Gorka Verdugo.
> http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2012/us/riders/euskaltel-euskadi/verdugo-gorka.html


 
I just had a look at the current overall standings to see who's down that end of the field. Surprised to see Brice Feillu currently bringing up the rear but presumably he'll claw back a few places in the mountains. Marcel Kittel is just ahead of him and looks like a contender. Quite a few other Argos boys down there - six in the bottom 20 places, in fact.

d.


----------



## oldroadman (3 Jul 2012)

jdtate101 said:


> I too am beginning to question Sagan's 'preparation'. On his two stage victories he's not even looked out of breath or even a mild sweat. Either he's a genetic freak or he's doped. All the other riders involved in the finishes (even EVB and Spartacus) have looked tired given the hard and very fast finishes and steep grades, but not Sagan. I smell something here. I would dearly love to believe he's THAT good, but to look that fresh at the end....hmmm.


 
Well as a stage winner he will be tested every time he wins, and any adverse results take up to 5 days so we shall see. Having watched his progress from last season, it's not a miracle jump, he has been getting steadily better, is only 22, and is still gaining strength. Who questioned Gilbert's wins last season?
It's a metter of form and progress, people have been asking the same about BW, his preparation with a modified and much harsher raining routine in the mountains has brought a big improvment, so unless anyone knows otherwise, Sagan may be in just the same spot. And remember he didn't see the front until 200 metres to go!
Saronni won a worlds back in 1982 in a very similar fashion, armchair ride to 300 metres to go, and bang! World Champ.


----------



## oldroadman (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I just had a look at the current overall standings to see who's down that end of the field. Surprised to see Brice Feillu currently bringing up the rear but presumably he'll claw back a few places in the mountains. Marcel Kittel is just ahead of him and looks like a contender. Quite a few other Argos boys down there - six in the bottom 20 places, in fact.
> 
> d.


 Kittel has "intestinal problems". code for D&V usually, or at least the D bit, which causes dehydration and weakness. He ain't been having a great time. But if he pulls through he'll be up there on the sprinters stages again.


----------



## yello (3 Jul 2012)

oldroadman said:


> BW was with a small group who were impeded behind the fall, and under the rules get the same time as the group they were with, if inside the last 3km.


 
It took a while for the commissionaire to confirm it. On't tele, they posted the times of the first 10 riders, but not further and not the updated GC. It didn't help that I heard the commentator say 'Wiggins has lost time' but I admit it could easily have preceded by 'it is possible that' or somesuch! Or perhaps he was remarking on his time as he crossed the line... dunno... ....whatever, I must admit, I was getting concerned! Guess I'm getting into the cycling!


----------



## Crackle (3 Jul 2012)

Hectic finish with riders going straight on at turns and everyone bouncing off everyone, hard to keep track. Great effort by Chavanel, he clearly knew that finish but no chance of holding them off a they came up the last hill.

I'm not yet suspicious of Sagan but my jaundiced eye has turned towards him.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

oldroadman said:


> Who questioned Gilbert's wins last season?


don't you read The Clinic?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

Another thing to remember about Sagan is that he's not just about physical strength - he seems to be very tactically astute too, especially for someone so young and inexperienced. His win in stage one was as much about his tactics as his strength.

And looking fresh after the short, sharp hills of northern France (aka Belgium) is not at all the same as looking fresh after the Very Big Hills of southern France.

d.


----------



## raindog (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I was really willing him on when he attacked. It was a great move but suicidal and didn't really have much chance of success. Shame.
> 
> d.


He won the French Champs a couple of years back on exactly the same roads and same finish, so he knew every hill and corner and the commentators suspected he'd have a good go at it today. Unfortunately the national championships can't be compared to a Tour stage with that rabid mass all after a stage win. Still, he tried.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

Broken tibia for Siutsou. Ouch.

d.


----------



## lukesdad (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Another thing to remember about Sagan is that he's not just about physical strength - he seems to be very tactically astute too, especially for someone so young and inexperienced. His win in stage one was as much about his tactics as his strength.
> 
> And looking fresh after the short, sharp hills of northern France (aka Belgium) is not at all the same as looking fresh after the Very Big Hills of southern France.
> 
> d.


 Compare the pictures of Sagan today and Cav yesterday. I think youll find Cav is rather more tactically astute than Sagan, one would assume similar exertions and drain on reserves would be required for both victories.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2012)

Maybe I'm naive or over-optimistic but I'm holding on to the idea that Sagan is clean for now.

d.


----------



## VamP (3 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Maybe I'm naive or over-optimistic but I'm holding on to the idea that Sagan is clean for now.
> 
> d.


 

Yep. Me too.

Also agree with you about the Chavanel move. Would have been beautiful if he'd brought it off though!


----------



## Noodley (4 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact is to do with the Yellow jersey.
The most riders to wear the yellow jersey in a single year is 8: 1958 and 1987
The least number of riders to wear the yellow jersey in a single year is 1: 1924,1928, 1935


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

Westra and Voeckler 8 mins back. Guess thats sorted out the Europcar quandry.


----------



## PpPete (4 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Maybe I'm naive or over-optimistic but I'm holding on to the idea that Sagan is clean for now.
> 
> d.


Likewise... but then I held on to the belief that Lance was clean for longer than most.


----------



## zizou (4 Jul 2012)

Sagan had great results as a junior in mountain biking, cyclecross and road, he had great results when he first became a pro and is now having great results in his first tour. He's not come from nowhere to deliver unexpected victories, he is just living up to the promise and expectations that alot of people have had for him over the last 2 years or so.

It is a sad situation that people suspect doping immediately not based on any evidence or even innuendo but on him looking fresh. When putting in big efforts (in whatever sport) some people look like that, some grimmace and contort their faces...it isnt a good signifier of how hard they are pushing it.



Jen Dvorak said:


> Is Sagan an a__hole or is his attitude lost in translation? Reminds me of the riders who don't wave to you unless you have on a team kit and riding full carbon  Perhaps LA is his role model  Sagan is looking amazing none the less.


 
Apparently he is a really quiet, polite and unassuming person away from the bike



lukesdad said:


> Don't forget the chase back on after the puncture, getting, through the peleton and finishing that fresh ?


 
Not sure if you saw it live or not but on the live footage it showed him getting towed most of the way back by the Katusha team car.


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2012)

zizou said:


> Apparently he is a really quiet, polite and unassuming person away from the bike
> .


He does like a laugh though.





Some of his tweets are funny. I really like him. Interesting times for bike fans with a youngster like this around.
After yesterday's stage Bernard Hinault was asked if he thought Sagan could make a GT contender, and he said he would probably make a great all-rounder if he could lose 3kilos or so of muscular mass.


----------



## Wester (4 Jul 2012)

Will Sagan be on the Podium in Paris on the final day of Le Tour ?


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2012)

no


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## Slaav (4 Jul 2012)

zizou said:


> Sagan had great results as a junior in mountain biking, cyclecross and road, he had great results when he first became a pro and is now having great results in his first tour. He's not come from nowhere to deliver unexpected victories, he is just living up to the promise and expectations that alot of people have had for him over the last 2 years or so.
> 
> It is a sad situation that people suspect doping immediately not based on any evidence or even innuendo but on him looking fresh. When putting in big efforts (in whatever sport) some people look like that, some grimmace and contort their faces...it isnt a good signifier of how hard they are pushing it.
> 
> ...


 
Would someone mind explaining in fairly simple terms when this is and isn't allowed? Is it to do with crashes etc? Many seem to just 'touch' the car and freewheel - obviously having a breather and others seem to almost grip on obviously?

Thanks


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

Slaav said:


> Would someone mind explaining in fairly simple terms when this is and isn't allowed? Is it to do with crashes etc?


 
Strictly, you shouldn't do it at all, but if you're making your way back to the peloton after a crash/mechanical, it is tolerated to some extent. Exactly how far you can push your luck largely depends on the mood of the commissaire on the day. Riders regularly get penalised for excessive drafting though.

d.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

Wester said:


> Will Sagan be on the Podium in Paris on the final day of Le Tour ?


 
He's the favourite for the green jersey at the moment, but this is his first TdF after all and it remains to be seen if he has what it takes to go the full distance...

He finished the Vuelta last year (his first Grand Tour) and came 4th in the points competition. Winning the green jersey in the Tour would be a massive step up from that.

d.


----------



## zizou (4 Jul 2012)

Slaav said:


> Would someone mind explaining in fairly simple terms when this is and isn't allowed? Is it to do with crashes etc? Many seem to just 'touch' the car and freewheel - obviously having a breather and others seem to almost grip on obviously?
> 
> Thanks


 
He was drafting behind the car not holding on. Its not really allowed but they turn a blind eye to it if the rider has had a crash or mechanical and fallen out the main group as a result of that or if the rider is at the back of the race and struggling to get to the finish within the time limit.

Riders are only allowed to hold onto the cars if their mechanic is fixing a problem with the bike or getting medical attention from the doctor. You often see them holding onto a bottle held by someone in the team car for a few seconds when they get handed a new one...technically not allowed but again ignored (within reason) as the rider is just making sure they have a good grip on the bottle so it isnt dropped 

Generally the rules and the informal way they are applied works out pretty well.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

aka "magic spanner" or "sticky bottle" as appropriate.


----------



## Boris Bajic (4 Jul 2012)

Like many others I have a dichotomy rushing through my mind when a rider suddenly finds fresh-faced and joyful speed in difficult conditions:

"Wow, fast! That's two stages! Blimey! Like Vino's recovery from his fall a few years ago... Like Il Pirata on the climbs! Oh Bugger!"

I do love the TdF, but I do have to have a wry chuckle sometimes. I hope he isn't doping, but I fear he may be.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

Hmmm, why all of a sudden do I detect the sickly sweet aroma of processed meat?

Edit: That won't mean anything to anyone who didn't see the deleted post it was in response to...


----------



## VamP (4 Jul 2012)

I dunno, I might be naive, but I don't think' he's doping.

Sprinters in general don't benefit from EPO as much as endurance specialists, and sprints by their nature are not as exhausting as endurance efforts (climbs/TTs etc.) Getting 'away' with doping these days requires systemic culture of doping and hiding it within the team. Is Liquigas such a team? Will Nibali rule the mountains?

He's a fresh faced youth of 21, overjoyed to be having the time of his life... I don't think we can go by the facial expression as demonstration of wrongdoing.

Innocent in my book.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Is Liquigas such a team?


 
They're Italian, therefore they must be, right?

Judging by Basso's performance in the Giro, if he's [still] doping, he isn't doing it right.

Nibali is vocally anti-doping. Not that this proves anything, but you can hope.

d.


----------



## PpPete (4 Jul 2012)

Got to like his "tourminator" bike though...


----------



## fimm (4 Jul 2012)

My boyfriend joined in some competition on Facebook - basically "they" took the first 198 (or however many it is) people who "liked" their page, and randomly assigned them a rider each. If "your" rider is first over the line, you win a prize.

My boyfriend got Sagan....


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2012)

Voeckler just rode up to the commentator on the rearguard motorbike and said
"Want a scoop? .......well, I haven't got one."


----------



## Nearly there (4 Jul 2012)

Has Goss ever beaten Cav?seems Cav has him mentally


----------



## fimm (4 Jul 2012)

Oh and after catching up with the whole thread, I meant to add, isn't Cadel Evans fluent in Italian?


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

Yes, I'm sure he's beaten him this year at least once... hang on a sec... <googles>

Stage 3 of the Giro - the stage where Cav was taken out by Ferrari, although Goss had it sewn up and would have won it anyway.

d.


----------



## VamP (4 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Has Goss ever beaten Cav?seems Cav has him mentally


 

Matt White on how Goss can beat Cav:

“Ideally,” he said, “we just have to finish the sprint in front of them.''

And there you have it.


----------



## zizou (4 Jul 2012)

Some pretty nice riding by Nibali to get back on the bunch...i think he might one day have a future in the pinnacle of cycle sport - silly commuter racing


----------



## Noodley (4 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> ...isn't Cadel Evans fluent in Italian?


 
I think you are confusing Italian with Whining...


----------



## Noodley (4 Jul 2012)

Ouch! Cav looked a bit dazed and confused.

Another very good ride by Sagan tho.


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2012)

Another stupid f kin crash.

Nice to see Petacchi can still do the job.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Oh and after catching up with the whole thread, I meant to add, isn't Cadel Evans fluent in Italian?


 
He lives there most of the time with his Italian wife.


----------



## Basil.B (4 Jul 2012)

Very nasty crash, Cav's helmet looked like it had split!


----------



## Browser (4 Jul 2012)

Ditto, nasty-looking crash, and only just over 2km from the line too  Echoing the sentiments of the poster on this thread who commented about how tight/aggressive the peloton seems this year, they do seem to have had more comings-together than I remember of old, or is it just me?


----------



## raindog (4 Jul 2012)

I thought Evans lived in Switzerland?


----------



## Noodley (4 Jul 2012)

Basil.B said:


> Very nasty crash, Cav's helmet looked like it had split!


 
A knob joke lies therein....


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

It would seem Tony Martin and Luis Leon are beginning to enjoy their touring holiday of France


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (4 Jul 2012)

I can see why Cav wanted to sign with Sky for this year, but am not sure if it will serve his interests for the next two.


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> I can see why Cav wanted to sign with Sky for this year, but am not sure if it will serve his interests for the next two.


 That would be dosh then would it ?


----------



## frayBentos59 (4 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> It would seem Tony Martin and Luis Leon are beginning to enjoy their touring holiday of France


Ha ha ha, brilliant


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2012)

Browser said:


> Ditto, nasty-looking crash, and only just over 2km from the line too  Echoing the sentiments of the poster on this thread who commented about how tight/aggressive the peloton seems this year, they do seem to have had more comings-together than I remember of old, or is it just me?


 
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/stage-four-analysis-the-road-to-rouen/


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (4 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> That would be dosh then would it ?


 
Whether it is dosh, or prestige or whatever else it would not go hand in hand with playing second fiddle would it?


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Whether it is dosh, or prestige or whatever else it would not go hand in hand with playing second fiddle would it?


 That would rather depend on your priorities.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> That would rather depend on your priorities.


Getting cynical in your old age LD 

Sagan doping, Cav in it for the money.....


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Getting cynical in your old age LD
> 
> Sagan doping, Cav in it for the money.....


 
Noodley's fault cynical old geet


----------



## thom (4 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Oh and after catching up with the whole thread, I meant to add, isn't Cadel Evans fluent in Italian?


His wife is Italian so I think so.


----------



## Shadow (4 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> It would seem Tony Martin and Luis Leon are beginning to enjoy their touring holiday of France


Ha ha, very funny LD.....or at least it would be if they were not in my fantasy team!!!


----------



## NotthatJasonKenny (4 Jul 2012)

Basil.B said:


> Very nasty crash, Cav's helmet looked like it had split!



Would have been nasty if not for the helmet!

(looks around quick!?!?!)


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

Shadow said:


> Ha ha, very funny LD.....or at least it would be if they were not in my fantasy team!!!


----------



## lukesdad (4 Jul 2012)

Dont worry Fab and Bert will be joining 'em soon... the peletons very own bouncers 
" Oi you yer on my bit of tarmac ! "


----------



## Steve H (5 Jul 2012)

Well - unless his crash has left him feeling worse for ware, I'm going to back Cav for today's stage. He's even better when he's annoyed and determined.

Any other predictions?


----------



## Noodley (5 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Noodley's fault cynical old geet


 
I have never cast doubt on either of those riders. It's just your welshness.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2012)

I predict a successful breakaway today. Jimmy Engoulvent ftw. 

d.


----------



## Noodley (5 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact:

see these not-very-interesting facts that I have posted the last few days? I have made them up myself, from counting through details of winners, etc...today I have turned to the back 2 pages of the official tour programme and discovered they have 2 pages of not-very-interesting facts, all laid out for anyone to see! Bugger.

Oh well, I'll have to just go and find some not-very-interesting facts that they have not covered...


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2012)

Ha! I assumed that's where you were getting them from. 

d.


----------



## Paul_L (5 Jul 2012)

I see Mrs Cav has tweeted some veiled criticism of Sky for sending her man to the Tour without the protection of a lead out.


----------



## Nearly there (5 Jul 2012)

cavs helmet
http://www.teamsky.com/gallery/0,27401,25884_7869471,00.html#photo=26


----------



## lukesdad (5 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I have never cast doubt on either of those riders. It's just your welshness.


 I wasn't being specific


----------



## lukesdad (5 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Well - unless his crash has left him feeling worse for ware, I'm going to back Cav for today's stage. He's even better when he's annoyed and determined.
> 
> Any other predictions?


 Griepel ...please I need the points !


----------



## BrumJim (5 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> cavs helmet
> http://www.teamsky.com/gallery/0,27401,25884_7869471,00.html#photo=26


 
NSFW?


----------



## Beebo (5 Jul 2012)

Sky team have lost the yellow helmets, Lotto now have them.

I wonder if Griepel will get Cav's bashed up one?


----------



## Steve H (5 Jul 2012)

Beebo said:


> Sky team have lost the yellow helmets, Lotto now have them.
> 
> I wonder if Griepel will get Cav's bashed up one?



Am I being a bit thick here? I thought the crash happened within the last 3km and therefore everyone involved gets the same time as the group they were in when the crash occurred. Why therefore have Team Sky lost time to Lotto in order to get the team leader yellow helmets?


----------



## Beebo (5 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Am I being a bit thick here? I thought the crash happened within the last 3km and therefore everyone involved gets the same time as the group they were in when the crash occurred. Why therefore have Team Sky lost time to Lotto in order to get the team leader yellow helmets?


 

Oops I was quoting from the BBC website live text, and they have just corrected themselves, so I was wrong. Sky still in yellow.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18720873


----------



## VamP (5 Jul 2012)

From the official website...

*26 days in yellow for Cancellara*
*If Fabian Cancellara keeps the yellow jersey after today’s stage, he will spend his 27th day in the lead of the Tour tomorrow (since he first won the prologue, in 2004). He will overtake Rene Vietto’s collection and become the rider with the biggest collection of Tour leader’s jersey for someone who hasn’t won the overall title. The men who have worn the yellow jersey for more than 26 days in the history of the race are:*
*Merckx (BEL), Armstrong (USA), Hinault (FRA), Indurain (ESP), Anquetil (FRA), Magne (FRA), Frantz (LUX), Leducq (FRA), Bottecchia (ITA) and Bobet (FRA).*

That's pretty rarified company for Spartacus*.*


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I predict a successful breakaway today. Jimmy Engoulvent ftw.


 
Damn, I picked the wrong Saur-Sojasun rider - it's Julien Simon in the break. I nearly said him too! Honest!

d.


----------



## Boris Bajic (5 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Am I being a bit thick here? I thought the crash happened within the last 3km and therefore everyone involved gets the same time as the group they were in when the crash occurred. Why therefore have Team Sky lost time to Lotto in order to get the team leader yellow helmets?


 
It's a team thing; Lotto's team will currently be showing a lower total time than Sky. The crash needn't come into it.

Like a TTT, the team prize can come down to who in your set-up is slowest rather than who has the most EPO, energy or similar.


----------



## LosingFocus (5 Jul 2012)

I wish I had someone holding out bags of food and water for me when I was out riding...


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> It's a team thing; Lotto's team will currently be showing a lower total time than Sky. The crash needn't come into it.


 
IIRC, the team ranking is based on your top three riders per stage. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

d.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Damn, I picked the wrong Saur-Sojasun rider - it's Julien Simon in the break. I nearly said him too! Honest!


 
...although it's academic because it doesn't look like the break is going to succeed after all. Oh well.

d.


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> IIRC, the team ranking is based on your top three riders per stage. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> d.


 
Top three riders total time.


----------



## zimzum42 (5 Jul 2012)

They just ran a red light!


----------



## zimzum42 (5 Jul 2012)

Top Finish!


----------



## Rob500 (5 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> *26 days in yellow for Cancellara*
> *If Fabian Cancellara .......... and become the rider with the biggest collection of Tour leader’s jersey for someone who hasn’t won the overall title. The men who have worn the yellow jersey for more than 26 days in the history of the race are:*


 
Hi. I was wondering about the wearer of the yellow.
Does FC get to keep those yellow jerseys or is he only "collecting" the honour of wearing it? Is it only the overall winner who keeps the yellow jersey?
Is there any prize money in it? There's money for stage wins, intermediate sprints etc - Does FC get any money for keeping hold of yellow each day?


----------



## raindog (5 Jul 2012)

Rob500 said:


> Hi. I was wondering about the wearer of the yellow.
> Does FC get to keep those yellow jerseys or is he only "collecting" the honour of wearing it?


Oddly enough he was asked what he does with them all in the post race interview about an hour ago. He keeps some, gives some away to friends and others get auctioned for charities.


----------



## Rob500 (5 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Oddly enough he was asked what he does with them all in the post race interview about an hour ago. He keeps some, gives some away to friends and others get auctioned for charities.


 Thanks raindog. Top answer.


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2012)

Sky looked much better today.


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2012)

Well done Greipel - how he avoided crashing with Farrar is quite specticular :
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...d=tour-de-france&id=48082954,33399756&yr=2012


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Well done Greipel - how he avoided crashing with Farrar is quite specticular :
> http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/nbcsports/?title=Crash almost takes out Greipel&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=48082954,33399756&yr=2012


Yes, spectacular but Sagan took his weight and that held him upright and saw Sagan out of the sprint with nowhere to go. No sympathy for Farrar here, though.


----------



## thom (5 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Yes, spectacular but Sagan took his weight and that held him upright and saw Sagan out of the sprint with nowhere to go. No sympathy for Farrar here, though.


Farrar seems a bit upset about one of the Argos guys:


----------



## derrick (5 Jul 2012)

First year of watching the tour and really getting into it, the scoring system is a bit hard to get into, but starting to understand it now, shall be following it to the end.


----------



## Doseone (5 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Farrar seems a bit upset about one of the Argos guys:




He was ready to go medieval on Tom Veelers ass Looking at the ITV4 close ups it looked like Farrar was as much to blame as anyone.


----------



## lukesdad (5 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> Sky looked much better today.


 
Really ?


----------



## doctornige (5 Jul 2012)

Oooh. Boasson Hagen looks like one to watch in the future. His stats are looking great.


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Really ?


Yep!


----------



## fozy tornip (5 Jul 2012)

Really?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> Sky looked much better today.


That's right - looks as if Cav's horrendous crash got them to change their approach.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/change-of-tactics-for-sky-on-stage-5


----------



## Kiwiavenger (6 Jul 2012)

The crash was before the 3 k to go marker but the comissiare let them finish with the same time as the peloton as the leaders where in side 3k to go.

Shame about the breakaway, would have loved to see the plucky buggers get a stage win!

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## fozy tornip (6 Jul 2012)

> That's right - looks as if Cav's horrendous crash got them to change their approach.


Why, if the Green jersey isn't a priority for himself or the team, is Cavendish in the line-up? Or Eisel? And why is Boasson Hagen flogging himself at the sharp end of stages that don't, in the larger scheme of things, matter?
BMC, in comparison, seem quietly focussed on their prime objective.


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact is that it is Mrs Noodley's birthday today, and she also retires today after over 25 years in the Police. 

She shares a birthday with Yannick Talabardon of Saur-Sojasun who, like Mrs Noodley, is not riding the Tour de France this year.


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

fozy tornip said:


> Why, if the Green jersey isn't a priority for himself or the team, is Cavendish in the line-up? Or Eisel? And why is Boasson Hagen flogging himself at the sharp end of stages that don't, in the larger scheme of things, matter?
> BMC, in comparison, seem quietly focussed on their prime objective.


Cav is Sky's sprinter, why shouldn't he be in the team? Eisel looks after Cav and Eddy joins them both at the end of a sprint stage. If it's an uphill sprint or Cav isn't there, then Eddy goes for the win. The rest of the team look after Brad.
I can't see the problem. Or perhaps I've misunderstood you.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> She shares a birthday with Yannick Talabardon of Saur-Sojasun who, like Mrs Noodley, is not riding the Tour de France this year.


 
Congratulations...... that is deeply uninteresting.

However, the fact it's your misses' birthday is not (uninteresting) Happy birthday to Mrs Noodley.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

The Sky change of approach, as I read it, was about the whole team and not just Cavendish. Whilst it did look like a train, I think they were driving the pace to keep all of the players out of trouble.



> "If you're not at the front you run the risk not only of crashing but also of losing time if you're caught behind a crash. After the crashes yesterday, we had a good talk this morning as a team and really coordinated everything. We decided to take it on from 30k out and really ride hard," Brailsford explained. "Keeping out of trouble was the objective as well as getting Mark into the front of the race for the last kilometre."


 
If it was meant to be Cavendish's train then I think it came off the tracks tbh. Arguably, and perhaps ironically, the crash disrupted it (not that is disrupted Lotto and Greipel) but he ended up with too much to do. I thought EBH went too hard too soon (perhaps thinking the breakaway guy would go the distance) and Cavendish looked spent in the final 100m. He faded, or gave up, in the last 10.

It's a stage for him today I hope. Fingers crossed it all comes together, I think he needs a boost after the last couple of days.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> He was ready to go medieval on Tom Veelers ass Looking at the ITV4 close ups it looked like Farrar was as much to blame as anyone.


 I thought it was Petacchi's fault more than anyone's. He was the one who changed his line slightly which made Farrar brake.


----------



## PpPete (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> The Sky change of approach, as I read it, was about the whole team and not just Cavendish. Whilst it did look like a train, I think they were driving the pace to keep all of the players out of trouble.
> 
> 
> *If it was meant to be Cavendish's train then I think it came off the tracks tbh*. Arguably, and perhaps ironically, the crash disrupted it (not that is disrupted Lotto and Greipel) but he ended up with too much to do. I thought EBH went too hard too soon (perhaps thinking the breakaway guy would go the distance) and Cavendish looked spent in the final 100m. He faded, or gave up, in the last 10.
> ...


 
In the sense that it got Cav and the rest of the team through those final pinch points unscathed I think the train succeeded. With Bernie still a bit sore from previous day they were never going to be able to give him an HTC style lead-out to 300 metres.


----------



## PpPete (6 Jul 2012)

fozy tornip said:


> Why, if the Green jersey isn't a priority for himself or the team, is Cavendish in the line-up? Or Eisel? And why is Boasson Hagen flogging himself at the sharp end of stages that don't, in the larger scheme of things, matter?
> BMC, in comparison, seem quietly focussed on their prime objective.


 
Stage wins matter just as much as the Green Jersey.


----------



## Paul_L (6 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Stage wins matter just as much as the Green Jersey.


 
agree with that. This year doesn't look like a Cav friendly race. Lots in inclines towards the end of sprint stages, which could scupper a green jersey bid but he's still in with a shout for 2 or 3 stage wins, which would still be a brilliant achievement.

He his however, chasing intermediate sprint points, which is slightly conflicting. Unless that's just to keep himself there or there abouts, in the event of a problem with Sagan, Goss etc.


----------



## lukesdad (6 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact is that it is Mrs Noodley's birthday today, and she also retires today after over 25 years in the Police.
> 
> She shares a birthday with Yannick Talabardon of Saur-Sojasun who, like Mrs Noodley, is not riding the Tour de France this year.


Hope she has a lovely day noods, and you be extra special to her, YER HEAR !!!


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> In the sense that it got Cav and the rest of the team through those final pinch points unscathed I think the train succeeded.


 
I agree entirely but it wasn't what I said!  I said I thought it failed *IF* it was intended to be solely a train for Cavendish (a soul train  ) but I don't suspect for a moment that that was it's intention. I never expected for a moment for a Sky train to deliver Cavendish to the 300m mark.

Imo, yesterday's finish wasn't really one for Cavendish and I reckon Griepel will have the upper hand in a long straight drag every time. Whilst Cavendish may be faster over a short distance, Griepel can hold the power for longer. Incidentally, I also reckon it wasn't a finish that suited Sagan either, even if he had been there. The more I see of Sagan, the more I build a picture of his relative strengths,

Goss is quietly notching up the points. Rich's shout might well come good yet.


----------



## lukesdad (6 Jul 2012)

For me Lotto are the team of the tour so far, it will be interesting to see their tactics when it comes to the mountains. Wonder if they ll be spent.


----------



## PaulB (6 Jul 2012)

Time to bring back time bonuses? http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-it’s-deja-vu-all-over-again/


----------



## lukesdad (6 Jul 2012)

I agree with that article, and to add the mountain stages would also become a little more competetive for the GC riders especially when the time gaps are small. I think Prudmomes arguement against them is a bit silly really He wants the winner to be the rider who has ridden the shortest time, but in truth in the past few years its been who can ride the best time trial.


----------



## PaulB (6 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> I think Prudmomes arguement against them is a bit silly really He wants the winner to be the rider who has ridden the shortest time, but in truth in the past few years its been who can ride the best time trial.


 
And one other factor that needs to be considered is the number of crashes which could result in a potential winner being robbed of the chance due to unforseen circumstances. I also read a report recently that suggested the number of crashes is in one way encouraging as it was indicative of the reduction in drugs making the riders tireder and therefore making more mistakes.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2012)

Have there been more crashes than previous years? We seem to be averaging one or two a day at the mo which seems less than previous years or is that just my memory deceiving me?


----------



## PaulB (6 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> Have there been more crashes than previous years? We seem to be averaging one or two a day at the mo which seems less than previous years or is that just my memory deceiving me?


We are virtually promised that there WILL be more the longer the tour goes on.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> in the past few years its been who can ride the best time trial.


 
Seems that way doesn't it? Win the time in a time trial and then defend it. Race of truth? Maybe...

We talk of stages favouring certain riders, even of entire tours better suiting others. I like this aspect of cycling, of GTs, adds to the equation. Some say this year's TdF is praps Wiggins' best change of winning and you can see the reasoning, there's little doubt that the format advantages him.

I personally like that the organisers change things around exactly because it changes the bias.


----------



## Keith Oates (6 Jul 2012)

I'm not a fan of Rudehomme but I think that dropping the points for a win etc. was the correct decision. It's not only the TT results that count but also the riders performance on the climbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

doctornige said:


> Oooh. Boasson Hagen looks like one to watch in the future. His stats are looking great.


 
Yeah, I read something in the paper the other day about the discovery of the Boasson-Hagen. Did the Tour of Switzerland extremely fast, apparently. Bizarrely, it was in the science section rather than the sports pages.

d.


----------



## Shadow (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I personally like that the organisers change things around exactly because it changes the bias.


 
I agree; this is one of the reasons I thought the Giro was a fantastic race this year.


----------



## Twizit (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, I read something in the paper the other day about the discovery of the Boasson-Hagen. Did the Tour of Switzerland extremely fast, apparently. Bizarrely, it was in the science section rather than the sports pages.
> 
> d.


 
PMSL


----------



## LosingFocus (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, I read something in the paper the other day about the discovery of the Boasson-Hagen. Did the Tour of Switzerland extremely fast, apparently. Bizarrely, it was in the science section rather than the sports pages.
> 
> d.


 Cannot. Like. This. Enough.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, I read something in the paper the other day about the discovery of the Boasson-Hagen.


 
Now now.... we can't all have FMs powers of prediction


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Gosh, is someone going to chase Zabriskie down?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

A bit strange to see Zabriskie up front in light of the names leaked a few days ago.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Guess I'm on someone's ignore list then!


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

sorry yello me old mate - posted without reading.

A bit of useless information to add to Noodley's list....
The average wait at the side of the road to watch a stage is 6h 45min


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> A bit of useless information to add to Noodley's list....
> The average wait at the side of the road to watch a stage is 6h 45min


 
Oh, you should have pm'ed him that for tomorrow! That's a cracking bit of useless info! We're spoilt now!


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> A bit strange to see Zabriskie up front in light of the names leaked a few days ago.


 
And hey, who's that guy in a stetson riding up behind him doing a mouth-zipping gesture?

d.


----------



## Doseone (6 Jul 2012)

Should I bunk off work for next Thursday's mountain stage, or save it up for the following Thursday's stage in the Pyrenees?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> Should I bunk off work for next Thursday's mountain stage, or save it up for the following Thursday's stage in the Pyrenees?


Oh bugger, that's a naughty one. Can't you wangle both?


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> Should I bunk off work for next Thursday's mountain stage, or save it up for the following Thursday's stage in the Pyrenees?


 

Deffo both.


----------



## Doseone (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Oh bugger, that's a naughty one. Can't you wangle both?


 
Not sure, maybe but I want to make sure my diary is clear in plenty of time. Can't guarantee I will be able to watch both live.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> Not sure, maybe but I want to make sure my diary is clear in plenty of time. Can't guarantee I will be able to watch both live.


 Android tablet plus Eurosport player is your friend! I'll be surreptitiously watching at work.


----------



## Doseone (6 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> Android tablet plus Eurosport player is your friend! I'll be surreptitiously watching at work.


Thanks. Do you have to pay for Eurosport player? That's a good idea for the days when I am stuck in the office.

Also, it's not quite the same as lying on the sofa at home in my y-fronts with a bottle of Tizer and a large packet of salt and vinegar chipsticks.


----------



## dragon72 (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> Thanks. Do you have to pay for Eurosport player? That's a good idea for the days when I am stuck in the office.
> 
> Also, it's not quite the same as lying on the sofa at home in my y-fronts with a bottle of Tizer and a large packet of salt and vinegar chipsticks.


Don't bother with paying for what you can get for free here:
http://www.procyclinglive.com/livestream/#


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2012)

Other than procyclinglive there's also cyclingfans.com if you can cope with foreign languages.

Otherwise Eurosport player is £5 a month.

As for the rest, that was way too much detail!


----------



## rb58 (6 Jul 2012)

It's streamed live on ITV4 too, via ITV Player.


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2012)

ITV player doesn't seem to work with Android ICS though.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Do we expect Sky to take to the front again? We're nearing the 30km to go mark.

Did anyone see what that last pile up was all about? The whole peloton came to a halt.


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> As for the rest, that was way too much detail!


 

Absolutely. I am still struggling to get the image of a bottle of Tizer out of my head. I feel soiled.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

Apparently, Allan Peiper has said Tyler Farrar won't be contesting the sprint finish today.

Just as well he mentioned it or no one would have noticed.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

Greipel won't be contesting it either, following his earlier crash. Shame.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Apparently, Allan Peiper has said Tyler Farrar won't be contesting the sprint finish today. Just as well he mentioned it or no one would have noticed.


 
harsh.... but fair


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Greipel won't be contesting it either, following his earlier crash. Shame.


So if Cav takes it now, it'll be because Greipel's not there.


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Greipel won't be contesting it either, following his earlier crash. Shame.


 
And Freire has just been dropped.

That's my FL sprint contigent severely decimated 30 clicks out


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Yet another big pile-up. Trying to see who's involved as it could be significant.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

What a mess. Schleck Snr doesn't even have a bike!


----------



## Speicher (6 Jul 2012)

Schleck
Hesjedal - badly torn shorts, but back on his bike


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Hesjedal.... that's tough, he'll loose time.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

Nor will Cav or Sagan be contesting the sprint after the peloton was split by that huge crash...


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

Goss in green tonight?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Goss in green tonight?


Sagan's up front - he could even take it in front of Goss.......


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> harsh.... but fair


 
I feel a bit mean saying it - I do feel sorry for Tyler, he's had some rotten luck - but he really hasn't been anywhere near winning a stage yet.

Danielson has just pulled out. Going from bad to worse for Garmin.

No news on Millar, but I saw him sitting in the road clutching his shoulder and seemingly not in a hurry to get back on his bike...

d.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Sagan's up front - he could even take it in front of Goss.......


 
Ah... commentators were saying earlier that he wasn't in the lead group but they've just mentioned him, so maybe he caught up.

d.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Has it been really tense racing these last few days or am I just getting (more) hooked?


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

I don't always trust the commentators! Unless I can SEE the rider then I don't feel at ease!


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

> @nyvelocity: And judging by the number of Garmins down, they should check the video for a yellow banded wrist rocket shooting a water bottle at the field


----------



## VamP (6 Jul 2012)

Hesjedel looking at 7 minute time loss


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2012)

Looks like Greipel has changed his mind about not contesting the sprint. Chapeau.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

have Green Edge stuffed this up?


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

superb win for Sagan.... is that a 'gorilla' celebration


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Sagan's up front - he could even take it in front of Goss.......


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

what on earth has Frank Schleck got in his mouth??


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

there's going to be a few sore bodies this evening


----------



## jdtate101 (6 Jul 2012)

All I can say is......OUCH!!!! Fair bit of skin left on the road today.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Voeckler NOT a happy chap. I don't want to attempt a translation but suffice to say that final crash has angered him... not the crash itself but the amount of time it took to get sorted out, He appeared to blaming the race radio for something.


----------



## dragon72 (6 Jul 2012)

People joke about Farrar not being able to win, I say the same about Matt Goss. He got a stage in the Giro this year IIRC, but he always seems to feature in the background of bunch sprint victory photos, with his hands still on the bars looking down miserably.


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)




----------



## ColinJ (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Looks like Greipel has changed his mind about not contesting the sprint. Chapeau.


Apparently, the team management changed his mind for him and ordered him to get up there and go for it!


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> Thanks. Do you have to pay for Eurosport player? That's a good idea for the days when I am stuck in the office.
> 
> Also, it's not quite the same as lying on the sofa at home in my y-fronts with a bottle of Tizer and a large packet of salt and vinegar chipsticks.


 
Ah jeezus. I'm shaking my head but that image is lodged now and won't come out.


----------



## ColinJ (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> superb win for Sagan.... is that a 'gorilla' celebration


The Hulk.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

Okay, I got another stab at listening to Voekler. Still none-the-wiser really but it seems the problem seems to be that they weren't told something via the radio. Some form of obstacle? Dunno. Schleck and Cancellera seemed to be less bothered by it.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Apparently, the team management changed his mind for him and ordered him to get up there and go for it!


 
He did remarkably I think. You could see the sprint was not comfortable for him.

I want to watch Goss again, I just don't know what happened for him.


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Okay, I got another stab at listening to Voekler. Still none-the-wiser really but it seems the problem seems to be that they weren't told something via the radio. Some form of obstacle? Dunno. Schleck and Cancellera seemed to be less bothered by it.


I heard it's something to do with orders to move up being given and making alot of the riders nervous, but as you say, we'll find out later.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

That makes sense to me, and squares with what I could make out. Something they were told rather than weren't. Schleck was dismissive really, saying they're pros and should be able to read the road ahead.

Maybe Voeckler's just packing a bit of strop because he's carrying injuries.


----------



## doctornige (6 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, I read something in the paper the other day about the discovery of the Boasson-Hagen. Did the Tour of Switzerland extremely fast, apparently. Bizarrely, it was in the science section rather than the sports pages.
> 
> d.


heh. Let's hope it's not engineered haematopoietic peptide science!


----------



## thom (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> He did remarkably I think. You could see the sprint was not comfortable for him.
> 
> I want to watch Goss again, I just don't know what happened for him.


Goss misread the distance to go signs and jumped about 200m early when someone's chain snapped.

And Sagan's reaction as he came across the line looked involuntary to me - by beating Greipel on the flat he's at his limit and he know's he's just won the biggest drag race of his life. Lifting off the handle bars for air, that reaction is the effect of adrenaline going through suddenly relaxed upper body muscles, not a guy apeing a Gorilla...


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> not a guy apeing a Gorilla...


 
how about doing an impression of The Incredible Hulk?


----------



## fozy tornip (6 Jul 2012)

> Stage wins matter just as much as the Green Jersey.





raindog said:


> Cav is Sky's sprinter, why shouldn't he be in the team? Eisel looks after Cav and Eddy joins them both at the end of a sprint stage. If it's an uphill sprint or Cav isn't there, then Eddy goes for the win. The rest of the team look after Brad.
> I can't see the problem. Or perhaps I've misunderstood you.


Perhaps there is no problem, and the next fortnight may show my mild anxieties to be baseless. It's just that I don't recall USPS dividing their energies between scrapping for stage wins in the first week and putting Armstrong in yellow, and I don't see BMC doing the same this year. Is BMC fielding a recognised sprinter?
I just hope that by the end of the race Sky haven't fallen between two stools


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Congratulations...... that is deeply uninteresting.


 
Expect some equally uninteresting facts over the next few days.


----------



## toby123 (6 Jul 2012)

Seriously sick of all these crashes. It's a much a lottery as a sporting contest. It's just the same thing as last year. I love cycling but right now I hate it a bit as well. Anyone else feel the same?


----------



## raindog (6 Jul 2012)

me, no


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2012)

This tour has been a disaster for Cavendish so Wiggins best come up tops; I know he's had bad luck, of three stages he could have won he's involved in a high speed crash the day before yesterday, yesterday he loses out due to the injury, I think, and today another crash. But, in my opinion, SKY have not looked after his best interests and if I was Cav, I'd be longing for the likes of HTC or a lead out like Lotto Belisol.​​I really wish Cav hadn't joined Sky to be honest and like I, and so many others thought, you can't concentrate on two jerseys at the same time and he has been let down IMO. I like Wiggins as a rider but SKY...I don't care much for them and that's putting it mildly.​


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jul 2012)

toby123 said:


> Seriously sick of all these crashes. It's a much a lottery as a sporting contest. It's just the same thing as last year. I love cycling but right now I hate it a bit as well. Anyone else feel the same?


I'm with you there.


----------



## Noodley (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> me, no


me neither. It is part of cycle racing, it's always been there, it's not new.


----------



## Boris Bajic (6 Jul 2012)

toby123 said:


> Seriously sick of all these crashes. *It's a much a lottery as a sporting contest*. It's just the same thing as last year. I love cycling but right now I hate it a bit as well. Anyone else feel the same?


 
I've been slightly surprised by the number and location of the crashes this year, but this is by no means new and certainly doesn't turn it into a lottery.

I recall a DM interview last year (or earlier) when he was saying that the speed of the Peloton is now crazy and relentlessly so. He was predicting great chaos and ouchy pain, which this may be a part of. 

However, I do not recall a year without big pile-ups. Right back in my childhood I recall riders saying they liked to be near the front to avoid trouble. I dare say it's been that way since God (or similar) invented the Peloton.

A lottery? No.

If you buy a ticket and are not very bright and say you're only doing it because it supports _charridee,_ that's a lottery.

If there are gentlemen on bicycles whizzing through the French countryside like an angry swarm of EPO bees, that's a sporting event.

There's a subtle distinction.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (6 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Y
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FIFY


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (6 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> This tour has been a disaster for Cavendish so Wiggins best come up tops; I know he's had bad luck, of three stages he could have won he's involved in a high speed crash the day before yesterday, yesterday he loses out due to the injury, I think, and today another crash. But, in my opinion, SKY have not looked after his best interests and if I was Cav, I'd be longing for the likes of HTC or a lead out like Lotto Belisol.​​I really wish Cav hadn't joined Sky to be honest and like I, and so many others thought, *you can't concentrate on two jerseys at the same time* and he has been let down IMO. I like Wiggins as a rider but SKY...I don't care much for them and that's putting it mildly.​


 
I agree with everything you said, except as far as I can see Sky is not concentrating on 2 jerseys. They are concentrating on just one. Did you see how the Sky train vanished into the thin air at 2.9km to the finish yesterday, leaving Cav with nobody but Edvald at that point and Edvald finding himself leading Cav and every other team at 1.5km to the finish.

I think Cav has no problem with it (he said as much after the stunning win at stage 2), and given the route this year putting all the chips on Wiggo is the logical step for the team to take especially given taking yellow was Sky's stated objective all along since it was formed. Now everybody except Millar on the Olympics team are from Sky, being part of the team might help Cav take gold, so there is probably some method in the madness this season.

However since Wiggo's contract was a 4 year one starting in December 2009, and iirc Cav's has another two year to run, it is next year that is likely to be super frustrating. But things can change, I suppose.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> *I agree with everything you said, except as far as I can see Sky is not concentrating on 2 jerseys.* They are concentrating on just one. Did you see how the Sky train vanished into the thin air at 2.9km to the finish yesterday, leaving Cav with nobody but Edvald at that point and Edvald finding himself leading Cav and every other team at 1.5km to the finish.
> 
> I think Cav has no problem with it (he said as much after the stunning win at stage 2), and given the route this year putting all the chips on Wiggo is the logical step for the team to take especially given taking yellow was Sky's stated objective all along since it was formed. Now everybody except Millar on the Olympics team are from Sky, being part of the team might help Cav take gold, so there is probably some method in the madness this season.
> 
> However since Wiggo's contract was a 4 year one starting in December 2009, and iirc Cav's has another two year to run, it is next year that is likely to be super frustrating. But things can change, I suppose.


 
Yes, that's my point Record; going back some time ago now when all the speculation first emerged after HTC disbanded about where Cav was going and whether Sky would be a good move for him or not, there seemed to be the general impression at the time that they would try for both, otherwise why would Cav be there? I accept that yellow was always paramount but there were a lot of us, quite rightfully, who were sceptical about it being a good move for the Manxman.

Now we're at the Tour, like you say, they're not concentrating on two jerseys at all and whereas Wiggins has probably never had a better chance of winning, I find it very frustrating that Cav seems to have virtually no support at all when other teams, and other individual riders in the shape of Sagan, have so much damage to do. I think Cav might well change his tune, if not already, regarding not minding but I might be wrong..?

Insofar as the Olympics I don't understand how not practising a lead out train will help Cav either?

I just don't think Sky have thought it through at all, placing too much emphasis on protecting Wiggins at the front of the bunch (the guy is a strong enough rider with enough about him to not need the whole team working for him at the same time all the time) at the expense of giving Cavendish anything at all in the shape of a lead out.

I agree about next year too, if people think that Sky just want Wiggins to win this year. If Wiggins wins this year, they'll put even more effort into him next year.


----------



## yello (6 Jul 2012)

"sick of the crashes" .... "lottery" ????

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody wants there to be pile-ups, and today's was a bad one, but it's hardly new.

I don't buy into the 'Cavendish shouldn't have gone to Sky' talk either. Cavendish will be a better cyclist for the move even though I'm sure he's feeling pissed off at the moment. He's a pro, he knew in joining Sky that it was a different set-up and there'd be changes. All of that too is cycling.

I think you've just been used to the good times of previous years and are perhaps taking it for granted, There's always new challenges, new talent that aim to beat him. Cavendish wouldn't expect nor want it to stay the same. He knows equally that he wont always have it his own way. Besides, all of this 'told you so' after they first week is a tad premature. There's a way to go yet and I reckon he'll take another stage or two before the end.


----------



## MattHB (6 Jul 2012)

It's completely insane watching this at the moment.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> "sick of the crashes" .... "lottery" ????
> 
> What on earth are you talking about? Nobody wants there to be pile-ups, and today's was a bad one, but it's hardly new.
> 
> ...


 
It's not so much a case of 'I told you so' as it is about the evidence itself so far...

Then again Stages 12, 15, 18 and the Champs are still there for the taking so let's see; either way, thus far, support for Cav has been utter shite.

If having a one man lead out is meant to be a 'challenge' as you say, then it's one that by the looks of things, ain't going to go his way as often as it should with the proper support in place. So why do it the hard way?


----------



## Andy84 (6 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> otherwise why would Cav be there?.



I can think of 1.5million reasons (reportedly)


----------



## Monsieur Remings (6 Jul 2012)

Andy84 said:


> I can think of 1.5million reasons (reportedly)


 
Of course Andy, Sky have 'looked after' Cav but that doesn't really detract from my general point that their lead out is pathetic, non-existent, disinterested etc.

I'd have thought that a winner of Paris-Nice, The Criterium Dauphine and the Tour of Romandie (all of which I followed closely) might have done just as well with a few less domestiques to his immediate front, not least to give the current world champion a fighting chance of Green.


----------



## Chuffy (6 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Of course Andy, Sky have 'looked after' Cav but that doesn't really detract from my general point that their lead out is pathetic, non-existent, disinterested etc.
> 
> I'd have thought that a winner of Paris-Nice, The Criterium Dauphine and the Tour of Romandie (all of which I followed closely) might have done just as well with a few less domestiques to his immediate front, not least to give the current world champion a fighting chance of Green.


Hmmm, and just _how_ did he win the Dauphine? Perhaps it was precisely because he had a dedicated team, most of whom are on the road in the TdF.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (6 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> It's not so much a case of 'I told you so' as it is about the evidence itself so far...
> 
> Then again Stages 12, 15, 18 and the Champs are still there for the taking so let's see; either way, thus far, support for Cav has been utter shite.
> 
> If having a one man lead out is meant to be a 'challenge' as you say, then it's one that by the looks of things, ain't going to go his way as often as it should with the proper support in place. So why do it the hard way?


 
+1. The thing is from Cav's standpoint there is only one team where he will get any practice for the Olympics, what choice does he have? If I were him watching the GB train disintegrated well before the finish at World last year, I certainly would have welcomed some practice. Unfortunate for him Orica Greenedge e.g. is certainly single-minded, and they are going to get Cadel. Mmmm the current odds are Goss at 14/1 behind Evald, Hushovd, Gilbert, Boonen, Spartacus, Sagan let alone Cav at 2/1...  Who said if you can't beat them join them?


----------



## Chuffy (6 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> +1. The thing is from Cav's standpoint there is only one team where he will get any practice for the Olympics, what choice does he have? If I were him watching the GB train disintegrated well before the finish at World last year, I certainly would have welcomed some practice. * Unfortunate for him Orica Greenedge e.g. is certainly single-minded, and they are going to get Cadel.* Mmmm the current odds are Goss at 14/1 behind Evald, Hushovd, Gilbert, Boonen, Spartacus, Sagan let alone Cav at 2/1...  Who said if you can't beat them join them?


What does this mean, in English? Get him in the shower with wet towel? Snipe him from a rooftop? What?

The Tour this year was always going to be about Wiggy and yellow. Cav knew this when he signed up, he was never going to have a train and even taking St Bernie was a concession that left Wiggy a man down. I really don't get all this outrage that Cav and the WC jersey aren't being respected. It has to be either idiots or people with really big blinkers on who think that. Oh and people who are desperate to see Wiggy and Cav going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus. Freaks.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> This tour has been a disaster for Cavendish



I suppose it shows you how far we've progressed as a cycling nation when a Brit wins a stage of the TdF and it's considered Not Good Enough. 

d.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> *What does this mean, in English? Get him in the shower with wet towel? Snipe him from a rooftop? What?*
> 
> The Tour this year was always going to be about Wiggy and yellow. Cav knew this when he signed up, he was never going to have a train and even taking St Bernie was a concession that left Wiggy a man down. I really don't get all this outrage that Cav and the WC jersey aren't being respected. *It has to be either idiots or people with really big blinkers on who think that.* Oh and people who are desperate to see Wiggy and Cav going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus. *Freaks.*


 
What exactly do you and Noodley not understand? It seems to me your strange questions can only be posed by someone who either did not know Cadel is an Aussie, or that he is going to be in the Aussie squad with 3 of the Greenedge team including Goss.

I am surprised that sporting opinions, discussion and debate in a supposedly friendly forum are degenerating into personal insult and name calling. I might well have blinkers on, but said cold wet towel is probably better placed on your head!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Ok, anyway, the Race Proper starts tomorrow... Predictions?

Rein Taaramae to win the stage. Chavanel to take yellow.

d.


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2012)

Yes, with a bit of look Chav in yellow tonight.

Oh, and expect at least one more crash.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (7 Jul 2012)

Poels might have a ruptured spleen and kidney :x


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Nasty. 

I don't like the sound of Imanol Erviti's injuries either:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/metz-massacre-rips-through-the-tours-gc-ranks_228056

d.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Of course Andy, Sky have 'looked after' Cav but that doesn't really detract from my general point that their lead out is pathetic, non-existent, disinterested etc..


 
Sky didn't intend for Cavendish to have a lead out train. I thought everybody knew this from the start. Certainly Cavendish did. 

I am genuinely surprised by this turn of thinking. Has there been false expectations that have lead to disappointment? What were you thinking when others were predicting Cavendish to win only a couple of stages? 

To today; Chavanel's a good call I reckon. Too early for Evans or Wiggins to be playing their cards (unless it looks good to do so). I was thinking about Menchov (as I have been since Chavanel tipped him) but I suspect he'll play a waiting game too.

I'm going to go long, on a breakaway to go the distance (and it won't be Voekler sadly). Nor someone from Garmin as they'll be pedalling wounded. One of the Astana lads methinks. I was going to go for Brajkovic but I don't reckon he'd not be allowed to get away, so my magic pin has landed on Robert Kiserlovski.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Jul 2012)

Cav cant have a lead out train the G man's not there ! Sooner he gets away from Brailsford the better.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Jul 2012)

There will be some pretty angry climbers out there today, my guess is Gilbert and Evans will have a little party planned for wiggo and sky.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

And Nibali. Don't forget Nibali!


----------



## MattHB (7 Jul 2012)

Quick question. I notice it's on Eurosport as well as itv4. Which is better? I find the 2 guys on itv4 extremely annoying!


----------



## ianrauk (7 Jul 2012)

MattHB said:


> Quick question. I notice it's on Eurosport as well as itv4. Which is better? I find the 2 guys on itv4 extremely annoying!


 

Eurosport... HD for one reason & showing more cycling the other. The ITV coverage is ok for those who need some explaining as to what goes on and how the tour works with all the interviews etc but Eurosport just gets on with the racing.


----------



## MattHB (7 Jul 2012)

I think I'll switch. I was watching itv4 hd, but they do my head in! Now I know more about what I'm watching I think I can graduate!


----------



## Willo (7 Jul 2012)

I really like Dave Harman's commentary and with Sean Kelly alongside it's Eurosport all the way for me. 

However, ideally I watch Eurosport but Sky+ the ITV highlights for the top and tail interviews etc. I actually like Boardman's piece at the end and Ned Boulting is okay too.


----------



## MattHB (7 Jul 2012)

Willo said:


> I really like Dave Harman's commentary and with Sean Kelly alongside it's Eurosport all the way for me.
> 
> However, ideally I watch Eurosport but Sky+ the ITV highlights for the top and tail interviews etc. I actually like Boardman's piece at the end and Ned Boulting is okay too.



That's quite a good plan.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (7 Jul 2012)

I dont have sky+/v+ so have to watch as it's on. Luckily the wife's working during the live itv Sunday show so im good to go! 

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## crisscross (7 Jul 2012)

I'd love to see BW on the top step in Paris but I'm not enjoying all these crashes after last year's mishap.

If I remember rightly Cadel only took the yellow jersey a day or too before Paris last year - do people expect that to be similar again this year for either of the favourite two?


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2012)

Hesjedal abandons


----------



## martint235 (7 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Hesjedal abandons


A shame but not entirely surprising


----------



## montage (7 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Cav cant have a lead out train the G man's not there ! Sooner he gets away from Brailsford the better.


I had a nice chat with Brailsford the other day, nice chap!


----------



## Kiwiavenger (7 Jul 2012)

Anyone see this picture tweeted by David Millar? Looks impressive

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## defy-one (7 Jul 2012)

MattHB said:


> I think I'll switch. I was watching itv4 hd, but they do my head in! Now I know more about what I'm watching I think I can graduate!



Same Same 
I have been sky+ itv4 coverage and learning. Time to switch. Gotta go see it one time. Maybe when they come through Boulougne


----------



## Rob500 (7 Jul 2012)

MattHB said:


> Quick question. I notice it's on Eurosport as well as itv4. Which is better? I find the 2 guys on itv4 extremely annoying!


I like both tbh and like Willo I watch both. I'm usually in from work in time to see the last lot of KM live but then I'll watch the EuroS highlights at 7pm and then ITV4+1 at 8pm


----------



## lukesdad (7 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> I had a nice chat with Brailsford the other day, nice chap!


Goes for you too monty by the sounds of it


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

ianrauk said:


> The ITV coverage is ok for those who need some explaining as to what goes on and how the tour works



At a very basic level, maybe. But Sean Kelly's insights into the tactics are far more informative, interesting and not forgetting... accurate!

d.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> I agree with everything you said, except as far as I can see Sky is not concentrating on 2 jerseys. They are concentrating on just one. Did you see how the Sky train vanished into the thin air at 2.9km to the finish yesterday, leaving Cav with nobody but Edvald at that point and Edvald finding himself leading Cav and every other team at 1.5km to the finish.
> 
> *I think Cav has no problem with it* (he said as much after the stunning win at stage 2), and given the route this year putting all the chips on Wiggo is the logical step for the team to take especially given taking yellow was Sky's stated objective all along since it was formed. Now everybody except Millar on the Olympics team are from Sky, being part of the team might help Cav take gold, so there is probably some method in the madness this season.
> 
> However since Wiggo's contract was a 4 year one starting in December 2009, and iirc Cav's has another two year to run, it is next year that is likely to be super frustrating. But things can change, I suppose.


 
He did say that and he said he was happy to be part of something special, which is potentially a first British winner. Being part of Sky is allowing him to prepare for an Olympic title, I'm not sure he'd get that opportunity with another team. I also think he's got aspiration for points jerseys outside the tour, witness a narrow miss in the Giro and so far Sky have adapted to all the challenges they've needed to overcome, I expect they'll do better integrating Cav in the future and they're badly missing Thomas this year. This is far from a normal year. It does concern me though that their train does look a bit clueless sometimes.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact is another birthday...Simone Stortoni of Lampre. So look out for #48 carrying a birthday cake and wearing a party hat - he might even have a few balloons tied to his bike.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> And Nibali. Don't forget Nibali!


 
I did think about him for today but I think he'll be quite content to be out of the headlines for a while yet. he's going to be there or thereabouts methinks when the gaps start widening in the GC.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> What does this mean, in English? Get him in the shower with wet towel? Snipe him from a rooftop? What?
> 
> The Tour this year was always going to be about Wiggy and yellow. Cav knew this when he signed up, he was never going to have a train and even taking St Bernie was a concession that left Wiggy a man down. I really don't get all this outrage that Cav and the WC jersey aren't being respected. I*t has to be either idiots or people with really big blinkers on who think that.* *Oh and people who are desperate to see Wiggy and Cav going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus. Freaks.*


 
Flattery will get you nowhere. That's just about the twattiest post so far.

Perhaps you could enlighten us further? Most people who'd have reason to have a head to head as you say with handbags, would be rivals, you know a sprinter up against a sprinter or a GC contender up against another GC contender. But, you're obviously unaware that Cav is a sprinter and Wiggo is a GC contender and aren't really rivals at all so precisely what you're harping on about only you and Noodley know?

'Going at it with handbags outside the Sky bus' and you accuse others of being a freak?

You complete twonk.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Hesjedal abandons


 
Huge shame. All going a bit pear shaped for Garmin at the moment (and I'm sure that's pleasing some!). I hope thems that remain have a quiet day and regroup. I wonder what the game plan will be for them now? Besides ride for pride and finish that is.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Being part of Sky is allowing him to prepare for an Olympic title, I'm not sure he'd get that opportunity with another team.


 
That is a very good point and one I'd not considered. Suits Sky, suits Wiggins and suits Cavendish.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> they're badly missing Thomas this year.



Yep, definitely. 

Shame that he seems to prefer the track when he's such a strong road racer. Bloody Olympics. 

d.


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Huge shame. All going a bit pear shaped for Garmin at the moment (and I'm sure that's pleasing some!). I hope thems that remain have a quiet day and regroup. I wonder what the game plan will be for them now? Besides ride for pride and finish that is.


Indeed but the big picture for Garmin is his Giro win and that they now have a credible GC candidate for a few years now. I think it would have been hard to get on the podium but he would have placed well.
DZ and Millar in time trials, with a few escapes. The fact they put DZ in the break yesterday was I think already something of a plan b - they seem to have thought that Farrar having crashed the day before was going to find it harder than normal in a sprint and it would be good to show themselves some other way.


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Flattery will get you nowhere. That's just about the twattiest post so far.
> 
> Perhaps you could enlighten us further? Most people who'd have reason to have a head to head as you say with handbags, would be rivals, you know a sprinter up against a sprinter or a GC contender up against another GC contender. But, you're obviously unaware that Cav is a sprinter and Wiggo is a GC contender and* aren't really rivals at all* so precisely what you're harping on about only you and Noodley know?
> 
> ...


Dear god, rivals for the support of their _team_ FFS. Right, I'll make it simple, ok? In the months before the Tour there was a lot of speculation about how Sky would accommodate Cav and Wiggy because both need a dedicated team to achieve their ultimate goals (green and yellow). The end of that was a clear deal that the focus would be on Wiggy with Cav as a free agent doing the best he could without his usual train (although he gets Eisel as his minder). All clear and obvious. Despite this, since Cav has missed out on a stage or two, there have been people hopping up and down in outrage that Sky haven't dedicated the team to helping him. Some of that has come from the likes of Peta Todd (blinkers) and some has come from fans who think that Our Plucky Lad winning sprint stages is all that matters. If you think that Wiggy won the Dauphine on his own and that he can just casually sacrifice a few team members to help Cav then I assume you're in the latter camp. Utterly ridiculous, especially now they've lost Sitsiou.

Also, if you followed Twitter and other cycling forums you'd know that there has been plenty of chatter about supposed tension between Cav and Wiggy over who gets the support of the team and there are also plenty of people who would just love to see this turn into a full-on scrap between the two.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (7 Jul 2012)

cav tweeted support for wiggins this morning, and have yet to see any tweet from him that's the slightest bit begrudging about things.

the media would love nothing more that a fall-out, but hopefully that won't happen.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

I can't see their being a fall-out since everyone knew the score to begin with. I'm sure Cavendish is feeling battered and pretty low at the moment (for obvious and understandable reasons) and given his temperament I'm quite sure his nearest and dearest are being made very aware of that. That doesn't equate to mutiny though.


----------



## martint235 (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Dear god, rivals for the support of their _team_ FFS. Right, I'll make it simple, ok? In the months before the Tour there was a lot of speculation about how Sky would accommodate Cav and Wiggy because both need a dedicated team to achieve their ultimate goals (green and yellow). The end of that was a clear deal that the focus would be on Wiggy with Cav as a free agent doing the best he could without his usual train (although he gets Eisel as his minder). All clear and obvious. Despite this, since Cav has missed out on a stage or two, there have been people hopping up and down in outrage that Sky haven't dedicated the team to helping him. Some of that has come from the likes of Peta Todd (blinkers) and some has come from fans who think that Our Plucky Lad winning sprint stages is all that matters. If you think that Wiggy won the Dauphine on his own and that he can just casually sacrifice a few team members to help Cav then I assume you're in the latter camp. Utterly ridiculous, especially now they've lost Sitsiou.
> 
> Also, if you followed Twitter and other cycling forums you'd know that there has been plenty of chatter about supposed tension between Cav and Wiggy over who gets the support of the team and there are also plenty of people who would just love to see this turn into a full-on scrap between the two.


I think you're also forgetting that this year's Tour is a little bit different. The focus for this year's Tour maybe to get Wiggo in yellow at the end, but the focus for this year for Cav is to get Olympic Gold. I wouldn't say he doesn't care about the green jersey but you can tell where his priorities lie. Come on, he's dropped 4kg and sacrificed a bit of power for the Olympics.

In a normal year I think Sky do have the firepower just to support both men.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Dear god, rivals for the support of their _team_ FFS. Right, I'll make it simple, ok? In the months before the Tour there was a lot of speculation about how Sky would accommodate Cav and Wiggy because both need a dedicated team to achieve their ultimate goals (green and yellow). The end of that was a clear deal that the focus would be on Wiggy with Cav as a free agent doing the best he could without his usual train (although he gets Eisel as his minder). All clear and obvious. Despite this, since Cav has missed out on a stage or two, there have been people hopping up and down in outrage that Sky haven't dedicated the team to helping him. Some of that has come from the likes of Peta Todd (blinkers) and some has come from fans who think that Our Plucky Lad winning sprint stages is all that matters. If you think that Wiggy won the Dauphine on his own and that he can just casually sacrifice a few team members to help Cav then I assume you're in the latter camp. Utterly ridiculous, especially now they've lost Sitsiou.
> 
> Also, if you followed Twitter and other cycling forums you'd know that there has been plenty of chatter about supposed tension between Cav and Wiggy over who gets the support of the team and there are also plenty of people who would just love to see this turn into a full-on scrap between the two.


 
Yeah, that's right I said that Wiggins won the Dauphine on his own, and the Race to the Sun and all the others. But where did I say that? And where have I said that I'd like nothing more than Cav and Wiggins to have it out with each other? That's your little fantasy.

I'll look out for you and your Sky jersey, as in your eyes they're fantastic obviously. And when you realise that if Cav wants to make Olympic Gold and the way to do that isn't some sort of deranged 'I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' and the definite way to do that is to practise a lead out, which Sky either haven't bothered to do, or aren't good enough at, you might see that if those are his (Cav's) stated ambitions then he's being let down and Sky are going about it the wrong way.

Or will Cav get Olympic Gold with all the domestiques working for Bradley Wiggins instead? Or perhaps by dropping him too early so he has to drop back a bit to contest the sprint? Never mind eh.

As for Twitter, well if you believe that kind of nonsense then you're obviously game for a laugh. In one of my earlier posts I also said I like Wiggins as a rider, precisely the reason I followed the the three races he's won this year, so if people want both men to fall out they're not worth listening to, but they're obviously enough to get people like you all defensive and completely unwilling to accept any criticism of SKY whatsoever.


----------



## iLB (7 Jul 2012)

Wiggins drops the c bomb after yesterdays stage http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/wiggins-lets-the-insults-fly/


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> And when you realise that if Cav wants to make Olympic Gold and the way to do that isn't some sort of deranged 'I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' and the definite way to do that is to practise a lead out, which Sky either haven't bothered to do, or aren't good enough at, you might see that if those are his (Cav's) stated ambitions then he's being let down and Sky are going about it the wrong way.



This is appalling. What are Sky playing at? Has no one thought to phone Dave Brailsford and tell him all this? If he's doing it all wrong, we need to let him know urgently - we can't have clowns like Brailsford ruining our Olympic chances through their incompetence. 

d.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> This is appalling. What are Sky playing at? Has no one thought to phone Dave Brailsford and tell him all this? If he's doing it all wrong, we need to let him know urgently - we can't have clowns like Brailsford ruining our Olympic chances through their incompetence.
> 
> d.


 
I might take a banner along to the Mur de Peguere on Stage 14 come to think of it.


----------



## ColinJ (7 Jul 2012)

I was just thinking back to how Cav 'dissed' Greipel at the end of 2010 for only winning 'shoot small races'. I wonder if he'd care to reevaluate that statement in the light of how they are doing in the Tour this year...!


----------



## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Wiggins drops the c bomb after yesterdays stage http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/wiggins-lets-the-insults-fly/


 
Eurosport's take on it: "It was sad, then, to see one rider behaving much like a spoilt footballer at the finish. Having managed to avoid the crash and finish alongside his main rival for the GC, Britain's Bradley Wiggins was caught on camera having a completely unnecessary meltdown in Metz.

Coasting along in the finish zone, Wiggins's path was temporarily blocked by a French cameraman trying to run after the stage winner, Peter Sagan. Instead of moving slightly, Wiggins held his ground and then — in an act of outrageous petulance — seemed to deliberately knock the camera out of the man's grip.

In the ensuing war of words, an irate Wiggins was hear shouting: "F***ing a***wipe. You f***ing wiped me out with a camera, you stupid c***." (And to think, if he wins the Tour he'll be up against Andy Murray for the BBC's Sporting Personality Of The Year award...)"


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

choice


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

Buddfox said:


> Eurosport's take on it: "It was sad, then, to see one rider behaving much like a spoilt footballer at the finish. Having managed to avoid the crash and finish alongside his main rival for the GC, Britain's Bradley Wiggins was caught on camera having a completely unnecessary meltdown in Metz.
> 
> Coasting along in the finish zone, Wiggins's path was temporarily blocked by a French cameraman trying to run after the stage winner, Peter Sagan. Instead of moving slightly, Wiggins held his ground and then — in an act of outrageous petulance — seemed to deliberately knock the camera out of the man's grip.
> 
> In the ensuing war of words, an irate Wiggins was hear shouting: "F***ing a***wipe. You f***ing wiped me out with a camera, you stupid c***." (And to think, if he wins the Tour he'll be up against Andy Murray for the BBC's Sporting Personality Of The Year award...)"


 
I blame Dave Brailsford.


----------



## zimzum42 (7 Jul 2012)

To be fair to Brad, I don't think he 'stood his ground' as Eurosport have it. He would have had to pull a fairly decent move to avoid being hit, and I think it's understandable at the end of a day like yesterday that people are a bit pissed off with the hundreds of journalists and cameramen running around without much concern for the riders.

As for his language, well, that's pretty normal for a Londoner...

As for the Remmings/others spat, well, at least we have some handbags, even if they're not from Cav and Brad! 

FWIW, and for fear of incurring remmo's wrath, I don't get the argument that Sky are somehow deficient as regards Cav.

Winning the Olympic Road Race isn't going to be about having an HTC-style lead out, it's more like a Classics race, and what you need is a team to pull you to the end of the race and to dump you at the end near the front. From then on it's up to Cav to win...

For Sky the TdF is only about Wiggo, if Cav can win a few stages, then that's a bonus...


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

Buddfox said:


> Eurosport's take on it...


Well, their take on it is just not what happened then is it? He pushed the camera out of the way, he then made a comment including a bit of swearing. But that's not a story. So the media will make something up.


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

Anyway, live coverage about to start...I must away and give my full attention to picking up Liggett and Sherwen for talking bollocks.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

btw, that really was an uninteresting fact Noodley.... I've forgotten it already!


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> btw, that really was an uninteresting fact Noodley.... I've forgotten it already!


 Excellent, I must be getting better at this! It won't be long before you forget I am posting not-very-interesting facts every day....


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

I would also just like to state that Sagan is my new 2nd favourite rider.


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## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

Am only following on text as am in work... did Cav contest the intermediate sprint? I saw Sagan picked up 8 points - if not, does that suggest he's given up on Green and will just look for some stage wins?


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

He was half hearted then gave up.

He's now riding as a domestique, fetching bidons!


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## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

Hard to blame him for knocking it on the head, if he has. I reckon he started with an ambition to give it a shot, but he needed a lot of things to go his way for it to work. In the end, he's probably had worse luck. I know he's competitive, but not to be blamed for sitting down now, starting to focus on the Olympics, get through the mountains unscathed, and do his bit to help Wiggo. If Wiggo does get yellow, they'll give him the full lead out train on the Champs Elysee, which would be prize enough this year. [Edit: to be fair, even if Wiggo doesn't get yellow, they'll probably still do this. Would just look cooler if Wiggo was wearing yellow!]


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## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Hmmm. Wiggo has form for going missing on the Champs-Élysées when expected to do lead-out duties. And he didn't even have the excuse of being in yellow...

d.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Interesting. A mini interview with Cancellara. Asked "yellow jersey or olympic gold?", he replied "olympic gold".


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## zimzum42 (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Interesting. A mini interview with Cancellara. Asked "yellow jersey or olympic gold?", he replied "olympic gold".


Probably because he knows he'll never wear yellow in Paris...


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## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

But he really only has a shot at winning one of them, to be fair...


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## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

From the BBC website:

A total of *13 *riders have abandoned since the crash on Friday. Here's a full run-down.
*AG2R* - Hubert Dupont (Fra) - sprained ankle, vertebrae and radius
*Euskaltel* - Mikel Astarloza (Spa) - elbow; Amets Txurruka (Spa) - right collarbone fracture
*Garmin* - Tom Danielson (US) - shoulder; Robert Hunter (SA) - vertebrae; Ryder Hesjedal (Can) - hematoma hip, left knee
*Katusha* - Oscar Freire (Spa) - broken rib
*Lampre* - Davide Vigano (Ita) - broken collarbone
*Movistar* - Imanol Erviti (Spa) - right leg; Jose Ivan Gutierrez (Spa) - right knee
*Rab**o**bank* - Maarten Wynants (Bel) - broken ribs, perforated lung
*Saur-Sojasun* - Anthony Delaplace (Fra) - broken wrist
*Vacansoleil* - Wouter Poels (Ned) - broken ribs, injured spleen

Ouch...!!


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Sky picking up the pace of the peloton, I thought the presence of Sanchez in the breakaway might make things a bit interesting, then darn me if Sean Yates doesn't confirm it!


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> He was half hearted then gave up.
> 
> He's now riding as a domestique, fetching bidons!


That might shut a few people up.


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## raindog (7 Jul 2012)

Sanchez just gave a perfect straight right to the gob of a spectator.


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## raindog (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> That might shut a few people up.


Doubt it - he was already doing that at the Giro.


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Doubt it - he was already doing that at the Giro.


No Wiggy at the Giro though.

You're right though, I'm sure people will _still_ be trying to looking for a an inter-team scrap.


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Just seen several riders give Van Summeren a helping push - nice to see after he staggered across the line in shreds yesterday.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> Probably because he knows he'll never wear yellow in Paris...


 
Perhaps all the more reason to dream of it!

I posted his answer mainly because it surprised me. Also, as a (something-or-other) to Cavendish's decision. I didn't realise the appeal of an olympic medal over a TdF jersey.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

The prizes for 'most combative ride of the day' are really crap. I mean really crap. Today's is a microwave, the last few days it's been a washing machine. I can really understand the motivation behind the breakaway now.... sheesh


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> The prizes for 'most combative ride of the day' are really crap. I mean really crap. Today's is a microwave, the last few days it's been a washing machine. I can really understand the motivation behind the breakaway now.... sheesh


What happened to the good prizes, like a large cheese or a cow?


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

We should have a "Yello's rubbish combativity prize of the day" fact!


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> We should have a "Yello's rubbish combativity prize of the day" fact!


 
Happy to oblige! It's usually a washing machine so please don't get excited.

Oh, a related comment; the Japanese lad from Europcar that won it the other day, he's lived in France (Dieppe I think he said) since he was 18. He said he knew the roads really well that day. His team mates shout 'bonsai' when he attacks.... am I overdoing it now?


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

Yes


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

I hope there is a cuckoo clock as a prize one of the days...


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Chavanel says he's ruled himself out (unless he's in the break), says the finish is too difficult for him.

I reckon this is a finish on which Wiggins could loose time. Could. It's going to be interesting.

Jeez, Vandenbrook leathering it after puncturing.

Evans saying he will be looking to make up time. Game on?

Cripes, Sky chewing up the road and all before. They are motoring.


----------



## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Yellow jersey WILL change hands tonight, Cancellara gone.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

What a ride from Sky, particularly Frome. They just steam rollered up that, pace high and preventing attacks. Evans gave it a go but couldn't get away.


----------



## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

A brillaint performance by Sky, the hopes of many will have taken a serious dent after that!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Rein Taaramae to win the stage.



Ooh, nearly!

Great ride by Froome though. Well deserved reward for his efforts. 

d.


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Yay Wiggy & Froome!

pleasebecleanpleasebecleanpleasebeclean


----------



## Sittingduck (7 Jul 2012)

Great finish - what a ride from team Sky!


----------



## Smokin Joe (7 Jul 2012)

I'm tempted to stick a tenner on Froome, a good outside bet if Brad slips up.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Well, believe it or not, Wiggin's has just said he told Frome, at 1.5km to go, to save a bit for for the win.

Or maybe he's just saying that to f*ck with Evans' head!


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Assuming next years route is different (more lumps, less TTing) will Sky ride for Froome? Would seem fair and reasonable.


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## gavintc (7 Jul 2012)

Excellent news - hope he can keep the yellow.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Sanchez says he'd like to thank Samsung for the magnificent microwave. Then, in a moment of fatigue inspired madness, and no doubt confusing it with the bouquet of flowers he'd just be presented with, lobbed the microwave into the crowd and struck the young son of a local farmer. The injury required 4 stitches. It was his first Tour de France. What a memory he'll have of it.


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Sanchez says he'd like to thank Samsung for the magnificent microwave. Then, in a moment of fatigue inspired madness, and no doubt confusing it with the bouquet of flowers he'd just be presented with, lobbed the microwave into the crowd and struck the young son of a local farmer. The injury required 4 stitches. It was his first Tour de France. What a memory he'll have of it.



Perhaps there should be a trebuchet on the podium - can't throw a microwave very far with arms that skinny.


----------



## Steve H (7 Jul 2012)

Well that was a good day for Sky and British Cycling. Stage win, Yellow jersey and King of the Mountains jersey. I guess the pressure is on now and there is still a long way to go before the finish, but very enjoyable to watch.


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## Nearly there (7 Jul 2012)

Tomorrows stage features several cat 2 and a cat 1 climb I bet cav can't wait


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## PpPete (7 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I hope there is a cuckoo clock as a prize one of the days...


 
That'll be tomorrow then - they do go to Switzerland after all.


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## Kiwiavenger (7 Jul 2012)

Switched it on just to see cadel out the saddle and froome breeze past with wiggo tucked in nicely behind cadel! Great result for the team sky boys

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## Buddfox (7 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Well that was a good day for Sky and British Cycling. Stage win, Yellow jersey and King of the Mountains jersey. I guess the pressure is on now and there is still a long way to go before the finish, but very enjoyable to watch.


 
Part of me would have loved Cav to have been in Green as well - was always going to be unlikely but would have been quite something.

Great result for Sky but it's day 1 (and an easy day at that) of many. Evans will be saving his beans for the Pyrenees - he played a great tactical game last year and will do the same this. Game on!


----------



## Willo (7 Jul 2012)

Great performance by Sky. Being a worrier, I couldn't help worry that BMC were saving their powder for another day but as Wiggins said, savour this moment and then get on with the rest of the race. Great for British cycling to have such a profile at the tour.


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## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Well, believe it or not, Wiggin's has just said he told Frome, at 1.5km to go, to save a bit for for the win.
> 
> Or maybe he's just saying that to f*ck with Evans' head!


 
How the heck did you know that?

Different Sky eh? They obviously weren't comfortable on the flat and BMC were. Totally reversed on this stage and I bet I know which one Cadel would prefer to have. Nibali went to go around Wiggins at the end but didn't have it, in fact he seemed to just hit a wall for a second and then was struggling badly. Menchov continues to lurk half in and out of the shadow world, blink and you miss him.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> How the heck did you know that?


 
From the interview with him. Interestingly, when Frome was asked about it, he hadn't a clue what they were talking about! So I suspect Wiggins was engaging in a bit of PR sort of a thing.


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## Cheddar George (7 Jul 2012)

Fantastic stage ....... and on a weekend when i was able to watch it as it happened. So pleased for Froome, i thought he got a rough deal in the Vuelta.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> pleasebecleanpleasebecleanpleasebeclean


 
Just stand back.... stay away from the clinic!


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## raindog (7 Jul 2012)

Will he get fined for today's wheelie at the finish?


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## gaz (7 Jul 2012)

Wiggo nearly got taken out by a cameraman


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Just stand back.... stay away from the clinic!


Hah! But only sensible to be cautious, yes?


----------



## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Will he get fined for today's wheelie at the finish?


 I'm finding it very easy to dislike this lad stage by stage.


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## Noodley (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I'm finding it very easy to dislike this lad stage by stage.


 Don't diss my 2nd favourite rider!


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## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I'm finding it very easy to dislike this lad stage by stage.


Did you see his wheelie in last years Vuelta? It was half way up the Angliru. No handed....


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## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Don't diss my 2nd favourite rider!


i cant help it. it's far too easy!


----------



## ianrauk (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I'm finding it very easy to dislike this lad stage by stage.


 

Yet I find myself liking him more and more


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## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Did you see his wheelie in last years Vuelta? It was half way up the Angliru. No handed....


 if i you tube it my laptop will be in pieces through sheer anger. it's best for people all round I dont..


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## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Yet I find myself liking him more and more


 I really do want to like him, it's terrific to see such a young rider doing so well, ripping the field apart, it's simply because of the celebrations, the show boating....aaaaargh!!!


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> if i you tube it my laptop will be in pieces through sheer anger. it's best for people all round I dont..


Taxi to Comet for frayBentos!


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## Willo (7 Jul 2012)

Doesn;t Miller do a wheelie at the top of the last mountain in each year's tour. Never heard of a problem with that. It might not be my cup of tea, but I have no problem with his celebrations - it's his lookout if he looks daft if his performances don't live up to it.


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## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

I think it's great to see anyone who enjoys riding their bike as much as he clearly does. 

d.


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## ianrauk (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I really do want to like him, it's terrific to see such a young rider doing so well, ripping the field apart, it's simply because of the *celebrations, the show boating*....aaaaargh!!!


 

You mean like Mark Cavendish?


----------



## Norm (7 Jul 2012)

gaz said:


> Wiggo nearly got taken out by a cameraman


I think it would be difficult for anyone unbiased to watch that and consider Wiggo to be at fault in any way. He was stopped and only pushed the camera as it was rapidly closing on his face, IMO.


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## yello (7 Jul 2012)

Shades of my favourite love to hate rider, Robbie McEwan. Fined for a wheelie at the end of a mountain stage (once my profile pic too*). I'd have paid the fine myself (metaphorically speaking obviously) just to cock a snoot at the commissionaires.

I don't think Cavendish ever show boated btw. Bunny hopped a finish line perhaps, but never really took the piss. His celebrations tended to the more aggressive side rather than arrogant.

* <<<<<<<<< and once again, in honour


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## Winnershsaint (7 Jul 2012)

Sky, Wiggins and Froome's successes not universally appreciated it would seem. A lot of anti-Sky bile on here.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17412
At very best Sky are boring at its worst they are being accused of doping and actively taking the pi55 out of everybody.


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## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

ianrauk said:


> You mean like Mark Cavendish?


 
I dont recall Cav at the TdF pulling a wheelie across the finish line or doing chicken, forest gump or gorilla impression for that matter. Arms outstretched, finger pointed to the sky yes, none of the above tho.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

Winnershsaint said:


> Sky, Wiggins and Froome's successes not universally appreciated it would seem. A lot of anti-Sky bile on here.
> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17412
> At very best Sky are boring at its worst they are being accused of doping and actively taking the pi55 out of everybody.


I was reading that. Lots of hot air and ego's and not too many brains. It's like reading the cycling equivalent of the Daily Mail


----------



## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Taxi to Comet for frayBentos!


 
I wont forget this Chuffy!


----------



## Winnershsaint (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> I was reading that. Lots of hot air and ego's and not too many brains. It's like reading the cycling equivalent of the Daily Mail


Indeed, but unfortunately the Daily Heil is very much an opinion former.


----------



## raindog (7 Jul 2012)

Winnershsaint said:


> Sky, Wiggins and Froome's successes not universally appreciated it would seem. A lot of anti-Sky bile on here.
> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17412
> .


LOL
In july (in fact, most of the time) the CN forum is 80% bored American school kids on holiday. Don't go there for a sensible, unbiased opinion.


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Yet I find myself liking him more and more


I agree - he's fantastic and truely classy.


----------



## martint235 (7 Jul 2012)

No one else feel that Schleck did well to pull back time? Sure he shouldn't have dropped so far back but I thought his last 3km were pretty good


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> I was reading that. Lots of hot air and ego's and not too many brains. It's like reading the cycling equivalent of the Daily Mail


Nice analogy and very accurate. That said, there is a lot of knowledge on there and the thread on climbing speeds is fascinating.


----------



## Steve H (7 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> No one else feel that Schleck did well to pull back time? Sure he shouldn't have dropped so far back but I thought his last 3km were pretty good


 
Yes, Schleck did well to claw back his losses. However I think he's dropped too much time already to be a contender now. A couple more time trials ahead and this time gap will be too much for him.


----------



## thom (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I wont forget this Chuffy!


Was this on the Angliru ? That can only be said to be cool.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Nice analogy and very accurate. That said, there is a lot of knowledge on there and the thread on climbing speeds is fascinating.


Yep, that one, I'm paying a bit more credence too but it also requires me to read and understand more, so I need to read it a few times to understand it all.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

They're wearing me down with their drip-drip-drip innuendo...

I mean, I _know_* Sky aren't doping but I keep reading so many vaguely plausible "proofs" of why they _must_ be doping that I'm starting to get confused...

Should I just change my name to Winston Smith?

d. 

*know/trust


----------



## PpPete (7 Jul 2012)

OK - so here's a question for all you more knowledgeable folks out there ....
Given that his priority is "last man standing" in the Sky train for Wiggo, what are Chris Froome's chances of holding on to the KOM jersey ?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

It won't happen. 

That was the first big climb, plus it was double points for being the finish of the stage, so whoever won the stage was guaranteed to take the jersey. (The points have been weighted this year so it's impossible to win the jersey by bagging all the 3rd and 4th cat climbs.)

Froome may possibly win another mountaintop stage finish like that but he won't be contesting the intermediate climbs on the big Alpine/Pyrenean stages, which are where the jersey will be won. 

d.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> They're wearing me down with their drip-drip-drip innuendo...
> 
> I mean, I _know_* Sky aren't doping but I keep reading so many vaguely plausible "proofs" of why they _must_ be doping that I'm starting to get confused...
> 
> ...


Quit the outraged innuendo reading and read this http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates.html followed by some of the more lucid posts on here http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8839&page=79 and see if what Sky are doing is believable.

And when you find out, let me know because I still have to read some bits slowly and out loud. The gist is, they are but they must be at the limit. Comparisons to Lemond's days have to be read carefully, as I'm pretty sure the whole approach and understanding of training and limits, phyiology and endocrinology, has changed since then, as has the style of racing.


----------



## frayBentos59 (7 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Was this on the Angliru ? That can only be said to be cool.


 good shout  it was. (thank you google)


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> To be fair to Brad, I don't think he 'stood his ground' as Eurosport have it. He would have had to pull a fairly decent move to avoid being hit, and I think it's understandable at the end of a day like yesterday that people are a bit pissed off with the hundreds of journalists and cameramen running around without much concern for the riders.
> 
> As for his language, well, that's pretty normal for a Londoner...
> 
> ...


 
Fair comments Zimzum, slightly more detail and reasoning behind what you're saying here and though I don't agree, I can appreciate your standpoint.

On a much more positive note, Sky were incredible today from the point at which they began to turn the screw on the rest of the peloton. How steep was that gradient FFS?


----------



## Scoosh (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Quit the outraged innuendo reading and read this http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates.html followed by some of the more lucid posts on here http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8839&page=79 and see if what Sky are doing is believable.
> 
> And when you find out, let me know because I still have to read some bits slowly and out loud. The gist is, they are but they must be at the limit. Comparisons to Lemond's days have to be read carefully, as I'm pretty sure the whole approach and understanding of training and limits, phyiology and endocrinology, has changed since then, as has the style of racing.


Without having read any of the above links (yet ) , my thought is that

SKY have done their homework and recces on the stage(s) and
with their performance-based data, know how much power their riders are capable of sustaining over what period and so they get them to ride to their limits, then pull off (lead-out guys), leaving the way 'clear' for their finishers (Froome and Wiggins). It's all power-meter based, so they are good at a steady pace but can't do the accelerate - rest - accelerate people like (dirty  ) Bertie can.
Various commentators much more knowledgeable than I reckon this to be the case too (the bit about the accelerate-rest-accelerate).


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> On a much more positive note, Sky were incredible today from the point at which they began to turn the screw on the rest of the peloton. How steep was that gradient FFS?


About 20% on the final pitch.


----------



## martint235 (7 Jul 2012)

And also has no one else noticed it's sunny


----------



## Scoosh (7 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> And also has no one else noticed it's sunny


What does 'sunny' mean, please ?


----------



## 2pies (7 Jul 2012)

Proud to be British today. Cav has been flying the flag for a few years, but he seemed to be an isolated talent surrounded by foreigners, kind of a like an african or asian footballer would be at Man Utd. or Chelsea. 

Today, British cycling turned up trumps. Lead the way for the best part of the day, grabbed the stage win and the yellow jersey. Can it get much better than that for a nation with such a limited cycling pedigree?



Monsieur Remings said:


> How steep was that gradient FFS?


 
The speed at which Froome went up that last stretch was frightening. They say it was 20%. I've ridden up White Down in Surrey which has a turn that is the same, its absolutely brutal.


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

@Crackle & Scoosh

You might find this study interesting. http://news.discovery.com/adventure/tour-de-france-drugs-120629.html


----------



## Hip Priest (7 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I'm finding it very easy to dislike this lad stage by stage.


 
I think he could turn out to be the Sebastian Vettel of cycling. Prodigiously talented, but personality-wise it's wackiness masquerading as charisma.


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> @Crackle & Scoosh
> 
> You might find this study interesting. http://news.discovery.com/adventure/tour-de-france-drugs-120629.html


yep, I haven't read that one but I have read a similar article on the same subject. It's all good news so far.


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> yep, I haven't read that one but I have read a similar article on the same subject. It's all good news so far.


It is, but I'm not uncrossing my fingers yet.


----------



## iLB (7 Jul 2012)

Buddfox said:


> Eurosport's take on it: "It was sad, then, to see one rider behaving much like a spoilt footballer at the finish. Having managed to avoid the crash and finish alongside his main rival for the GC, Britain's Bradley Wiggins was caught on camera having a completely unnecessary meltdown in Metz.
> 
> Coasting along in the finish zone, Wiggins's path was temporarily blocked by a French cameraman trying to run after the stage winner, Peter Sagan. Instead of moving slightly, Wiggins held his ground and then — in an act of outrageous petulance — seemed to deliberately knock the camera out of the man's grip.
> 
> In the ensuing war of words, an irate Wiggins was hear shouting: "F***ing a***wipe. You f***ing wiped me out with a camera, you stupid c***." (And to think, if he wins the Tour he'll be up against Andy Murray for the BBC's Sporting Personality Of The Year award...)"


 
bolluucks from eurosport, he had about a second to choose between taking it in the face and intervening


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> About 20% on the final pitch.


 
Yep, sounds about right.

Very much looking forward to their efforts in the Pyrenees and hopefully today will not be the last we'll see of Chris Froome. A massive shout to Richie Porte, perhaps the unsung hero today for Sky and not for the first time this season.


----------



## Chuffy (7 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> bolluucks from eurosport, he had about a second to choose between taking it in the face and intervening


Yup, absolute cobblers. The camerabloke wasn't in his path, it was the bloody great camera that he was toting at face height that was the problem. The gormless berk wasn't paying attention and Wiggy only clocked it at the last moment, just in time to shove it away from his face. My sympathy is with a knackered rider trying to get back to his bus after a hard stage.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> That might shut a few people up.


 ?


----------



## Monsieur Remings (7 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> bolluucks from eurosport, he had about a second to choose between taking it in the face and intervening


 
I'd like to have seen what a rider like Bernard Hinault would have done in the same situation. Complete non-story but pretty good reactions from Wiggo nonetheless.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Quit the outraged innuendo reading and read this http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates.html followed by some of the more lucid posts on here http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8839&page=79 and see if what Sky are doing is believable.



Who do you believe? Who do you want to believe?

There's enough conflicting "evidence" out there that it's easy to cherry-pick the parts that best support one's preferred position. 

It's hard to avoid the innuendo though, especially after performances like we saw today. 

d.


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Who do you believe? Who do you want to believe?
> 
> There's enough conflicting "evidence" out there that it's easy to cherry-pick the parts that best support one's preferred position.
> 
> ...


It's a bit of a nightmare, but the evidence on the 'they're doping' front seems to be a mix of dodgy histories/associations and stupid assumptions (winning a stage = doping, beating riders with very shady reputations = doping, riding like USPostal = doping) etc. There are also a lot of cretins out there who just want to look smart, and if you shout 'doper' at teams/riders who do the slightest thing to raise suspicion then there is no way you can be proven wrong and you might get to claim 'I knew it all along' bragging rights if a rider gets busted. Being a Clinic cynic is a no-lose situation.

The evidence in favour of riders and teams being clean(er) tends to be much more reliable - power estimates and VAM up climbs etc which show that riders are just not reaching the peaks that they used to in the bad old days.

I know it's not easy and there's every possibility that I might be wrong, but I prefer the conclusions that science offers, rather than the cheap rubbish spouted by a bunch of smart-arsed tossers on a forum.


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

I'm still watching Sky from behind the sofa though. I *really* don't want to be proved wrong about them, but cycling doesn't exactly reward faith or naivety.


----------



## Boassen Hagen (8 Jul 2012)

Incredible day for British cycling. Froome rode the ride of his life.


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> It's hard to avoid the innuendo though, especially after performances like we saw today.


 
Indeed it is. And, in fairness, you can understand that people might cry 'witch' after witnessing what we saw from Sky yesterday. I hope/believe they're clean but if you had to point a finger at any performance yesterday...


----------



## MattHB (8 Jul 2012)

Boassen Hagen said:


> Incredible day for British cycling. Froome rode the ride of his life.



It was awesome to watch.

They seriously have to do something about those pissed up French yobheads running along ride.. I'd have done more than push them away. And as for that twunt with the flag.. Jeez


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

Probably Brits there to support 'their Brad' 

Have you ever watched the Giro?


----------



## cd365 (8 Jul 2012)

Awesome performance by Team Sky yesterday


----------



## junglegusset (8 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> ..... I know it's not easy and there's every possibility that I might be wrong, but I prefer the conclusions that science offers, rather than the cheap rubbish spouted by a bunch of smart-arsed tossers on a forum.



Your referring to Cycling News right?


----------



## raindog (8 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> How steep was that gradient FFS?


12% average 14% at the top


----------



## junglegusset (8 Jul 2012)

Brutal.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (8 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> 12% average 14% at the top


 
Yes, found that too but looked steeper than that at the top and sure I heard someone mention 20% plus but must have been a very short section.


----------



## doctornige (8 Jul 2012)

The Eurosport guys said 23%. It didn't look like 23. 14% seems right.


----------



## Smokin Joe (8 Jul 2012)

Doping allegations are what every successful rider will have to live with, at least for the foreseeable future. The history of the sport is so steeped in it there will always be those willing to point the finger at any great performance. Unfortunately the only defence is "I have never tested positive" and that line has been discredited by a certain American.


----------



## Rob500 (8 Jul 2012)

They definitley mentioned 20% + on tv. As Monsieur R says, it could have been a very short section.

Also - is that an 'old' map? They did build an extra bit of road on top when they knew the TDF was coming to town. Can't remember what side it was on, ES or ITV4, but they mentioned that in the past they had ridden up there and thought they'd reached the top. A farmer came over and said, 'Do you want to see where the the top is going to be?'


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> Yes, found that too but looked steeper than that at the top and sure I heard someone mention 20% plus but must have been a very short section.


 
Where the road switched back, where Cadel went, there is a short section of 20% or more, maybe just 200m. The route included a relatively flat bit at the top which obviously that graph doesn't show...


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

It was a circular course too apparently


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Boassen Hagen said:


> Incredible day for British cycling. Froome rode the ride of his life.


I think beating Cobo to a stage win atop that mountain in the Vuelta last year was better to be honest - remember he did come second overall in GC there.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I think beating Cobo to a stage win atop that mountain in the Vuelta last year was better to be honest - remember he did come second overall in GC there.



That Vuelta stage was one of the most exciting bike races I've ever seen. I was trying to watch it surreptitiously online at work and could hardly contain myself. I get the feeling we won't see anything to compare to that in this Tour. 

d.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Very strong group breaking off the front early - Voigt, Millar, Rui Costa, LL Sanchez, Chavanel, Gilbert, Riblon, Westra... Could be a very exciting stage...

d.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Wiggo headlines in L'Equipe:
http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/26746871607/wiggins


----------



## just jim (8 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> We discussed this a few pages back. Basically, there is a certain amount of bandwidth available to broadcasters and they can use that to broadcast a few channels with higher picture quality or many more channels with lower quality. ITV have gone for quantity rather than quality!
> 
> The bitrate they use for ITV4 on Freeview is much lower than that used by BBC1 (for example) and the effect is obvious when the picture being displayed is changing rapidly - there is a digital bottleneck which prevents the picture data getting through fast enough and the picture breaks up into pixellated blocks which are horrid to look at.
> 
> Oh, and yes - a great win by Cavendish!


I'm noticing that frazzled screen quality quite a bit (rate) so far!


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact is that the 3 fastest prologues all have a british connection. Chris Boardman has the 2 fastest times, and the 3rd fastest prologue was in London.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

And my tip for today's winner is my favourite rider, Sandy Casar.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

I'll go for Hoogerland, just cos I need him to start picking up points for my fantasy team. 

A Voigt solo break would be brilliant though... except he's just been caught by some chasers as I write that. 

d.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

I have enjoyed today's ITV4 coverage, possibly because there has been no Sherwen and Liggett commentary yet! But really good seeing the early breaks and chases and seeing it all unfold rather than joining it a few hours into the stage.

And Jeremy Roy is off the front...I'd settle for a win for him if not for Casar.

Oh bugger, here's Liggett and Sherwen...oh well.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Looks bad for Sammy Sanchez.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Sanchez out. 

d.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

I wish Liggett and Sherwen would stop going on about "crazy crashes this year"...it's the same every bloody year!


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Let me be the first to shout
"Come on Tim!"


----------



## zimzum42 (8 Jul 2012)

More great stuff from Liggo:

[French Accent]Train[/French accent] [English Accent]of[/English accent] [French Accent]Grand[/French accent] [French Accent]Vitesse[/French accent]


----------



## Nearly there (8 Jul 2012)

What are the yellow Mavic cars and bikes?


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> What are the yellow Mavic cars and bikes?


They are the official race mechanics/support, providing wheels etc. to any rider if the team car is not there - each team only gets 2 support cars I think.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> What are the yellow Mavic cars and bikes?


 
They are neutral service cars, used when the team car/mechanic is not available (e.g. stuck behind the convoy) to help with wheel and bike changes.

edit - oops, cross posted.


----------



## Nearly there (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> They are the official race mechanics/support, providing wheels etc. to any rider if the team car is not there - each team only gets 2 support cars I think.


Thought as much just the missus wanted to know


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

junglegusset said:


> Your referring to Cycling News right?


Yes, The Clinic in particular. There's also a fair bit of it on Twitter.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Thought as much just the missus wanted to know


It looks like the motos also give time split info on blackboards
edit - ah its probably not a mavic moto actually


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Doping allegations are what every successful rider will have to live with, at least for the foreseeable future. The history of the sport is so steeped in it there will always be those willing to point the finger at any great performance. Unfortunately the only defence is "I have never tested positive" and that line has been discredited by a certain American.


Yes, there is literally *nothing* that riders can do to prove they are clean, which must be incredibly frustrating. The only thing that might help is to release things like full blood profiles, power files etc to demonstrate that they are within the bounds of what is possible without doping. It's still not proof that they aren't doping to reach that point though...


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Let me be the first to shout
> "Come on Tim!"


 
Too early for Murray to take the yellow jersey?


----------



## montage (8 Jul 2012)

What happened to Sanchez??


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> What happened to Sanchez??


 
fell off fairly early on, not sure what happened but he was in a great deal of pain - looked like shoulder or collar bone. It was not a big crash either, just him and a few others.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

He was carried off on a stretcher, quite heavily strapped up, so could well be more than just a snapped collarbone.

d.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

Anyone else get the feeling that Liquigas are not only trying to set up Sagan for a win but they'll try to put time into Wiggins & Cadel on the last descent ?
It is something of a team speciality having done it in the Vuelta last year (when they fluffed the finish with Sagan getting the win but Nibali missing out on time bonuses).


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Go Pinot!!


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Anyone else get the feeling that Liquigas are not only trying to set up Sagan for a win but they'll try to put time into Wiggins & Cadel on the last descent ?


 
Sagan's off the back on the climb. They're working for Nibali all the way. Don't forget Evans is a very strong descender too. Plus there's a flat bit at the bottom that will suit Evans better.

d.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Van den Broeck is in my fantasy team too...


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Marc Madiot giving young Pinot a bit of encouragement!


----------



## gavintc (8 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Marc Madiot giving young Pinot a bit of encouragement!


LOL - certainly get some words of advice.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Allez allez!!


----------



## Sittingduck (8 Jul 2012)

Lol, he's gonna do it... isn't he?!


----------



## gavintc (8 Jul 2012)

So Cadel is putting in a burst. So Pinot looks like doing it.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

SUPERB!!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (8 Jul 2012)

gasp! ...


----------



## gavintc (8 Jul 2012)

Excellent, the Wiggo / Evans battle is going to be interesting.


----------



## raindog (8 Jul 2012)

Fabulous win for Pinot - well done lad!


----------



## raindog (8 Jul 2012)

Sky didn't crush today's stage and only Brad and Froomy were together at the end. Does that now mean they're not on drugs after all?


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Sagan's off the back on the climb. They're working for Nibali all the way. Don't forget Evans is a very strong descender too. Plus there's a flat bit at the bottom that will suit Evans better.
> 
> d.


The other thing that might have a bearing on tactics is whether the rumour about Nibali moving to BMC next year is true. People are clearly talking about ad hoc cross-team alliances forming on any given day to complement GC and stage hopes from here on. It will be interesting to see how much Nibali and Evans collaborate in the higher mountains, particularly if Wiggins puts time into both of them tomorrow.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Great stage today. Lots of action from beginning to end. Very likeable and deserving winner. Man, I love this sport. 

d.


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Does that now mean they're not on drugs after all?


 
Sky aren't obviously.... but did you see Liquigas.... and Lotto


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Okay, I suppose I had better put forward some predictions:
> Frenchman that the nation takes to it's heart (they should do a jersey for that) - Pinot


 
Rejoice at my deep knowledge of the peloton


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Sky aren't obviously.... but did you see Liquigas.... and Lotto



That Pinot too... very suspicious... When does a 22yo French kid ever win a stage in the Tour? And that Madiot character always banging on about being anti-doping - methinks he doth protest too much!

d.


----------



## frayBentos59 (8 Jul 2012)

Brilliant tweet from Cath Wiggins...

"I do think Marc Madiot could've shown a bit more enthusiasm"


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> That Pinot too... very suspicious... When does a 22yo French kid ever win a stage in the Tour? And that Madiot character always banging on about being anti-doping - methinks he doth protest too much!
> 
> d.


Radioshack have 6 guys in the top 20...
(I don't think they are doping to be clear.)


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

That was a brilliant finish. Up there with the best I've seen. Real racing,You want to watch what's going on everywhere.

It's said that Nibali and Evans can descend, and Wiggins and Frome are not so hot. Can't say I noticed a huge difference between the 4 of them today. Then the race to the line was full blooded. Vandenbrooke then Evans trying to get away and being dragged back. Great stuff. I didn't think they'd get to Pinot but it was still tense stuff. 5 star viewing.


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Radioshack have 6 guys in the top 20...
> (I don't think they are doping to be clear.)


 
Why not? Come on! Have you seen the colour of their jerseys... them, and BMC... doped to the gills.


----------



## captainhastings (8 Jul 2012)

dam it my eyes started too water for the French man much too the wife's amusement. Cant help being an emotional guy


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

captainhastings said:


> dam it my eyes started too water for the French man much too the wife's amusement. Cant help being an emotional guy


 
Same here. 
It was, as yello stated, 5 star viewing. A 5 star stage. And a 5 star winner. And a 5 star manager.


----------



## Noodley (8 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> Brilliant tweet from Cath Wiggins...
> 
> "I do think Marc Madiot could've shown a bit more enthusiasm"


 
Brilliant


----------



## Peteaud (8 Jul 2012)

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW.

What a Stage.


----------



## Peteaud (8 Jul 2012)

captainhastings said:


> dam it my eyes started too water for the French man much too the wife's amusement. Cant help being an emotional guy


English cheering on the French.

To right when its as good as this.

Good luck to guy, privalige to watch him


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Why not? Come on! Have you seen the colour of their jerseys... them, and BMC... doped to the gills.


 
Wiggins said: 'I say they're just f*****g w*****s. I cannot be doing with people like that.​'It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.​'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s**t, rather than get off their arses in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.​'And that's ultimately it. C***s.'​​Full article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...s-rant-doping-question.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


----------



## raindog (8 Jul 2012)

Agree with Brad 100%
The reaction from couch potato bike race experts all over the internet after yesterday's stage was sickening. Instead of Twitter we could easily insert TheClinic.


----------



## bennydorano (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> The other thing that might have a bearing on tactics is whether the rumour about Nibali moving to BMC next year is true. People are clearly talking about ad hoc cross-team alliances forming on any given day to complement GC and stage hopes from here on. It will be interesting to see how much Nibali and Evans collaborate in the higher mountains, particularly if Wiggins puts time into both of them tomorrow.


I thought the strongest rumours were that it was Astana he was moving to.


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Agree with Brad 100%
> The reaction from couch potato bike race experts all over the internet after yesterday's stage was sickening. Instead of Twitter we could easily insert TheClinic.


I can see why he thinks that and I sympathise. However, what he doesn't seem to acknowledge is the reason why cycling has ended up with fans taking this kind of attitude. The blame for that lies squarely with the likes of Armstrong et al and Brad, sadly, is firmly in the yellow band fan-camp.


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

Good to see Evans scrapping for every second he can claw back. It hasn't worked so far and I think he's going to lose a fair bit of time tomorrow in the TT.


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Wiggins said: 'I say they're just f*****g w*****s. I cannot be doing with people like that.​'It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.​'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s**t, rather than get off their arses in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.​'And that's ultimately it. C***s.'​​Full article:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...s-rant-doping-question.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


 
I understand and agree with his sentiment but he needs keep some distance from the internet trolls, rise above them, remain diplomatic and keep his answers straight otherwise he'll be in danger of referring to them as haterz and we all know what happens then...


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Wiggins said: 'I say they're just f*****g w*****s.




You do appreciate I was joking don't you?


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> However, what he doesn't seem to acknowledge is the reason why cycling has ended up with fans taking this kind of attitude.



The sport is a lost cause to these people. There's nothing Brad or anyone else will ever be able do to convince them he's clean. So screw them. 

I just wish they'd shut up and let the rest of us enjoy the sport. I mean, that was some cracking bike racing today, and yet it's Brad's emotional response to stupid, needling, deliberately provocative questions that make the headlines. 

d.


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

Whilst I can understand Wiggins' rant, I think it a little naive of him to not realise (if indeed he doesn't) WHY people think the way they do. It's not just twitter twats (I like that, twitter twats, yep got a ring to it) that call 'doper' either. It's seasoned commentators and ex-pros too. Wiggins surely realises that? His language may be colourful but he's not stupid. 

Believe me, I want to watch him perform to his best without the questions starting to form.


----------



## Chuffy (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> The sport is a lost cause to these people. There's nothing Brad or anyone else will ever be able do to convince them he's clean. So screw them.
> 
> I just wish they'd shut up and let the rest of us enjoy the sport. I mean, that was some cracking bike racing today, and yet it's Brad's emotional response to stupid, needling, deliberately provocative questions that make the headlines.
> 
> d.


A bit harsh there, surely? I'm no fan of the Clinic peanuts, but cycling fans have a long history of being bullshitted and lied to. That some turn to cheap cynicism is hardly a surprise. I just wish that Brad would just turn his eloquence on those who have caused this situation...


----------



## Willo (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Great stage today. Lots of action from beginning to end. Very likeable and deserving winner. Man, I love this sport.
> 
> d.


 
This year's Tour seems to be throwing up plenty of action and the stages yesterday and today were fantastic. I just hope Sky can keep on applying this pressure for the full 3 weeks as there are plenty of hard days cycling ahead. Didn't expect the action that the last 2 days have thrown up but after Sky took the race to everyone yesterday, it made for exciting stuff with Evans was looking for any opportunity to grab some seconds. Too much going on today, but fantastic to see a man stay out and a worthy winner today.


----------



## Hip Priest (8 Jul 2012)

BradleyWiggins said:


> F****** ****-******* ******** can ****** my ****** *** and ******* like it the ******** ***** and yeah we're just taking each day as it comes really Ned.


 
Go on son.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

bennydorano said:


> I thought the strongest rumours were that it was Astana he was moving to.


Dunno, it's def possible - the point was BMC thought Cadel would benefit from having another climber in the team


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> You do appreciate I was joking don't you?


Oh yes, sure, I was just lazily tacking Brad's timely take on the subject we'd got to. And I wasn't trying to cast aspersions either re RNT. I agree that based on the info out there, you could probably create a case for any ridiculous hypothesis you wanted.

What with his "F**king Enormous" headline in L'equipe today and the profanity laden rant at the camera man, Brad's surely demonstrating that he's at his limit in terms of brain function at the end of these stages. It's quite a portfolio which I personally don't take offence to but in my opinion, SKY's press team needs to get on top of the situation and help him out a bit.

Edit: I think it does sound a bit better in French though:
"_Honnêtement, ce sont des *putains de branleurs*. Je ne supporte pas les gens comme ça. Ca explique leur propre oisiveté parce qu’ils ne peuvent pas imaginer s’impliquer dans quoi que ce soit dans leurs propres vies"_, a-t-il poursuivi. "_C’est facile pour eux de s’asseoir là, derrière un pseudonyme sur Twitter, et d’écrire leur merde plutôt que de se lever le cul et aller travailler dur pour réaliser quelque chose.__ J'ai dit ce que j'avais à dire. Basta. *Bande de cons!*_"


----------



## raindog (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> What with his "F**king Enormous" headline in L'equipe today and the profanity laden rant at the camera man, Brad's surely demonstrating that he's at his limit in terms of brain function at the end of these stages. It's quite a portfolio which I personally don't take offence to but in my opinion, SKY's press team needs to get on top of the situation and help him out a bit.


I agree in a way, but I think Brad's the kind of bloke who couldn't give a toss about anything except racing his bike. Reminds me of Hinault in some ways, except instead of swearing he used to actually make physical contact with anyone who rubbed him up the wrong way.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I agree in a way, but I think Brad's the kind of bloke who couldn't give a toss about anything except racing his bike. Reminds me of Hinault in some ways, except instead of swearing he used to actually make physical contact with anyone who rubbed him up the wrong way.


Sure, it's just I think he is more eloquent and perceptive when given a bit more space. The concern for his team is that there are maybe 2 weeks of this until Paris if he stays in yellow and journalists know that they can get could copy from him with provocative questions, setting him up for a fall. I don't think he or his team want that to be the main story.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> cycling fans have a long history of being bullshitted and lied to.



Yes, I know. I'm a cycling fan too. 

d.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

Well, if he made the comments in French, that puts a whole new slant on it anyway - "con" may literally translate as the c-bomb but it doesn't have nearly the same force in French. It's no stronger than "idiot", really. 

d.


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Well, if he made the comments in French, that puts a whole new slant on it anyway - "con" may literally translate as the c-bomb but it doesn't have nearly the same force in French. It's no stronger than "idiot", really.
> 
> d.


He spoke in English but it has been translated into various European languages this afternoon, employing differing extremes of argot.


----------



## lukesdad (8 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That was a brilliant finish. Up there with the best I've seen. Real racing,You want to watch what's going on everywhere.
> 
> It's said that Nibali and Evans can descend, and Wiggins and Frome are not so hot. Can't say I noticed a huge difference between the 4 of them today. Then the race to the line was full blooded. Vandenbrooke then Evans trying to get away and being dragged back. Great stuff. I didn't think they'd get to Pinot but it was still tense stuff. 5 star viewing.


 
Nibali was just testing the water today I think, Froome nearly lost it on one corner. That descent wasn't technical or narrow enough for him to give it 100%. On a long narrow descent he could put a minute into the others and double that if its wet.
With this in mind I now regard him to be the bigger threat to Wiggo


----------



## thom (8 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Nibali was just testing the water today I think, Froome nearly lost it on one corner. That descent wasn't technical or narrow enough for him to give it 100%. On a long narrow descent he could put a minute into the others and double that if its wet.
> With this in mind I now regard him to be the bigger threat to Wiggo


The second day in the Alps will give a better opportunity although there is the La Toussuire climb at the end of it. Coming off La Croix de Fer and the Col du Mollard the roads have many, many switchbacks, (although they aren't taking the bonkers road off Mollard that has 42 consecutive hairpins).


----------



## gavintc (8 Jul 2012)

The truth is that drug cheats do not have a little badge on their chests stating that they are cheating. The evidence comes after the event, sometimes a suspicion arises through exceptional performance, but it is dreadfully difficult to sort the honest man from the doping man. I personally 'believe' that the current crop of British riders are clean - and that Sky appear to have a good, well publicised 'clean' policy. But, does that make us all 100% convinced and content that all is well? I suggest that most cycle race supporters will always retain a certain amount of doubt - a few %age. To do otherwise implies gullibility and there have been too many occasions when we have believed only to be disappointed. I was discussing this with a friend who works on the periphery of Sky and BC. He is convinced that it would be extremely difficult to dope in the open regime that is in place and that the culture developed in Sky would make doping extremely unlikely. I hope so. 

So, turning to the Wiggo rant. I propose that the only man who genuinely knows if Wiggo is clean is himself. The rest of us believe, hope, pray it is all above board. 

I also hope he can do it this year. It is certainly excellent to see a Brit wearing yellow and I think he will extend his lead tomorrow.


----------



## ColinJ (8 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Nibali was just testing the water today I think, Froome nearly lost it on one corner. That descent wasn't technical or narrow enough for him to give it 100%. On a long narrow descent he could put a minute into the others and double that if its wet.
> With this in mind I now regard him to be the bigger threat to Wiggo


I think it was a bit foolish trying to stay with him on that descent. He would have gained about 20 or 30 seconds max, and he didn't have any support with him so the chasers would easily have got him back on the flat run in. Why take the chance of a crash?


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> He spoke in English but it has been translated into various European languages this afternoon, employing differing extremes of argot.



Ah. I see. Thanks for the clarification. (I didn't see the press conference, obviously, only read the reports.)

Anyway, I agree with him in any language. 

d.


----------



## lukesdad (8 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I think it was a bit foolish trying to stay with him on that descent. He would have gained about 20 or 30 seconds max, and he didn't have any support with him so the chasers would easily have got him back on the flat run in. Why take the chance of a crash?


Gamesmanship probably.


----------



## beastie (8 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I think it was a bit foolish trying to stay with him on that descent. He would have gained about 20 or 30 seconds max, and he didn't have any support with him so the chasers would easily have got him back on the flat run in. Why take the chance of a crash?


 
It was hardly a dangerous descent, Wiggins was comfortably on Evans wheel and Nibali was just flexing his downhill muscles.
Nibali needs to TT the best he has ever done or he will need to put many minutes into Wiggins between the two TT's.


----------



## yello (8 Jul 2012)

I don't know what coverage you get in the UK, and whether it's the same that I see here in France (I'm guessing it is) but it seemed to me that Evans had fallen back at one point on the descent. Now it may have been simply how it looked as the camera cut to them but the last shot we had of the group, Evans was leading. I wonder if he did have a moment?

Frome did - he ran wide on one bend following his Nibs, nearly running into the barrier.


----------



## Smokin Joe (8 Jul 2012)

Checking the odds online you can get as high as 25/1 on Froome. Well worth a tenner.


----------



## ColinJ (8 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> It was hardly a dangerous descent, Wiggins was comfortably on Evans wheel and Nibali was just flexing his downhill muscles.


Well, er ...


yello said:


> it seemed to me that Evans had fallen back at one point on the descent. Now it may have been simply how it looked as the camera cut to them but the last shot we had of the group, Evans was leading. *I wonder if he did have a moment?*
> 
> *Frome did - he ran wide on one bend following his Nibs, nearly running into the barrier.*


That's what I was getting at!


----------



## claver58 (8 Jul 2012)

Looking forward to tomorrow - I'll hazard a guess that Wiggins will improve the 10 secs on Evans to 70 secs.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2012)

With the advantage of going last tomorrow, Wiggins will know exactly what he _needs_ to do. 

Question is whether he'll keep his powder dry for the 2nd TT, or try to get some time in the bank knowing he has a day off to recover afterwards...

He really is in the box seat, isn't he? This is surely why Sky were happy to put into play a strategy in Saturday's stage that got him into yellow so early in the race. 

d.


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> With the advantage of going last tomorrow, Wiggins will know exactly what he _needs_ to do.
> 
> Question is whether he'll keep his powder dry for the 2nd TT, or try to get some time in the bank knowing he has a day off to recover afterwards...
> 
> ...


The whole Sky strategy depends upon Brad putting as much time as possible into Cadel in the TTs and limiting losses elsewhere. He will be flat out.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> The whole Sky strategy depends upon Brad putting as much time as possible into Cadel in the TTs and limiting losses elsewhere. He will be flat out.


 
I agree, especially it is rest day afterwards.


----------



## perplexed (9 Jul 2012)

I'm not entirely sure my nerves can take another 2 weeks of this...


----------



## Steve H (9 Jul 2012)

My prediction for today:

1. Cancellara
2. Tony Martin
3. Brad

With Brad gaining 30 seconds + on Evans.

What do you predict?


----------



## Noodley (9 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> What do you predict?


 
That lots of internet forum people will make stuff up whatever the result


----------



## Noodley (9 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact is that Marc Madiot is a knight of the legion of honour - even before his great victory celebrations of yesterday!


----------



## david k (9 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> I agree, especially it is rest day afterwards.


 
i noticed the last 2 days wiggo was on evans wheel over the line, he did t need to be today he could have crossed at the same time behind somebody elses to nobodys wheel, it was surely a psychological move, evans gave his all and looked behind to see wiggo 2 days in a row, got to demoralize eh?

if he can beat him in tts and follow him everywhere every other time he should break evans and beat him, imo


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> I understand and agree with his sentiment but he needs keep some distance from the internet trolls, rise above them, remain diplomatic and keep his answers straight otherwise he'll be in danger of referring to them as haterz and we all know what happens then...


 
No, he needs to do whatever he needs to do (legally) to make himself win.

If that means part of his character is that he pishes some people off then so be it.

1st priority: win

2nd priority: win:

...


...

nth priority: make friends.


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact is that Marc Madiot is a knight of the legion of honour - even before his great victory celebrations of yesterday!


Sorry, I think that's too interesting, you've let us down !
Can I have my money back ?


----------



## Zofo (9 Jul 2012)

highlight of yesterday had to be Madiot hanging out of his car screaming encouragemnt at Pinot --priceless!!!


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> I wont forget this Chuffy!


 


What's not to love ?


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2012)

How the hell do you do that!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2012)

I got a bit carried away watching the Pinot show yesterday and forgot to check on how Cavendish got on after a day of repetitive climbs. As I can't made head nor tail of the letour site, which seems to be saying GC not available yet, does anybody know how he got on? I thought the stage might give a very rough indication as to how he might get on at the Olympics.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> The whole Sky strategy depends upon Brad putting as much time as possible into Cadel in the TTs and limiting losses elsewhere. He will be flat out.


 
Agreed, that's the likely scenario. The point is that going last gives him the luxury of other options if they become necessary. And that's why he made the effort not to allow Evans and Nibali to escape on the descent yesterday.

Though I suspect Sky have got this whole race so finely mapped out that they already know exactly what time he's going to post today...

I'm expecting Evans to be a bit closer than he was in the Dauphiné TT though. Brad will take seconds off him rather than minutes.

Zubeldia is the interesting one today - could well be up into third spot overall by the end of play. Where on earth did he come from? Could make things a bit lively in the mountain stages if Radioshack still have Zubeldia, Monfort and Gallopin all close enough to the top of GC to be considered a threat if they decide to attack...

d.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I got a bit carried away watching the Pinot show yesterday and forgot to check on how Cavendish got on after a day of repetitive climbs. As I can't made head nor tail of the letour site, which seems to be saying GC not available yet, does anybody know how he got on? I thought the stage might give a very rough indication as to how he might get on at the Olympics.


 
Everyone who finished came in well inside the cutoff. Cav was in the second to last group. Suspect it's meaningless wrt the Olympics.

d.


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Agreed, that's the likely scenario. The point is that going last gives him the luxury of other options if they become necessary. And that's why he made the effort not to allow Evans and Nibali to escape on the descent yesterday.
> 
> Though I suspect Sky have got this whole race so finely mapped out that they already know exactly what time he's going to post today...
> 
> ...


 
Unless Cadel has a mechanical, Sky think they will not be able to gain time on him on a road stage but they can lose time on him and the chances are they will at some point. The one weapon they have over Cadel is TTs. 2 of them. 2 chances to build a time buffer to cover Cadel's digs in the last few km of a mountain stage or Brad bonking, crashing or having his own mechanical. 

I agree, they will expect seconds rather than minutes but they desperately need as much as possible today. 

I think Froome will go hard too and he can get time back on Nibali and Menchov.


----------



## frayBentos59 (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> What's not to love ?




ok ok! you've ground me down...I'm impressed. very impressed


----------



## Paul_L (9 Jul 2012)

Tony Martin just gone quickest in TT out of 67 finishers so far.

Millar and Cummings 5th and 6th respectively.


----------



## Paul_L (9 Jul 2012)

Who is the Tony alongside Rob Hayles in the Eurosport studio?


----------



## zimzum42 (9 Jul 2012)

Paul_L said:


> Who is the Tony alongside Rob Hayles in the Eurosport studio?


----------



## marinyork (9 Jul 2012)

Paul_L said:


> Tony Martin just gone quickest in TT out of 67 finishers so far.
> 
> Millar and Cummings 5th and 6th respectively.


 
Would just like to clear up that it looks like according to the coverage you've just watched too of the eurosport studio, that Tony Martin had a puncture. No live pictures of it. Really bad luck if that was the case.


----------



## Paul_L (9 Jul 2012)

marinyork said:


> Would just like to clear up that it looks like according to the coverage you've just watched too of the eurosport studio, that Tony Martin had a puncture. No live pictures of it. Really bad luck if that was the case.


 
I was following the live updates on letour.fr and it's a bit out of date now. Millar and Cummings are now 9th and 11th.

I've since seen the coverage on ES where they picked up on TM's flat. They seemed to think his time is not a great one.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Casar isn't that far behind Martin at the first time check...


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to get one puncture in a TT is unfortunate, to get two looks like poor tyre choice. 

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

And Cancellara goes almost 40 seconds faster at the intermediate!


----------



## raindog (9 Jul 2012)

Goss and Renshaw surprised at the % of yesterday's stage
44x23 to climb 14% 
http://storify.com/quizeye/gearings


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Chavanel goes faster than Martin too! Cancellara's time will stand I think, though.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Chava comes in just 26" down on Cancellara. Good effort!


----------



## zimzum42 (9 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Chavanel goes faster than Martin too! Cancellara's time will stand I think, though.


still hoping Brad can beat it somehow, am dreaming that he's the new Big Mig and can do 5!!!


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> am dreaming that he's the new Big Mig


 
Don't even go there.


----------



## zimzum42 (9 Jul 2012)

OK, 5 is unlikely - maybe 3 in a row? Still puts him in with a select bunch!


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Goss and Renshaw surprised at the % of yesterday's stage
> 44x23 to climb 14%
> http://storify.com/quizeye/gearings


Not quite - they're talking about today's TT.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Actually, if Chava is only 28 seconds behind Cancellara, maybe Brad can win this. I mean, Van Garderan has just gone under his intermediate time...


----------



## raindog (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Not quite - they're talking about today's TT.


Thank God for that 
thanks thom!


----------



## marinyork (9 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Actually, if Chava is only 28 seconds behind Cancellara, maybe Brad can win this. I mean, Van Garderan has just gone under his intermediate time...


 
I was surprised that the last 10km of the TT which is the flattest, that it seems that Cancellera underperformed vs other riders. He just didn't gain much extra time at all. Meaningless or just getting a bit tired?


----------



## LosingFocus (9 Jul 2012)

So the Sky team call Bradley "Sticks" coz he has thin legs. No-one there thought "Twig-gins" would be better? Fools...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Woo, Kloden 4th... he maybe a threat later.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

come on Tejay!!

edit: only 9 seconds down on cancellara. good show!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Just outside!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Now Froome at the intermediate - can he top Van Garderan? Yes, he can!


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

OMG Chris Froome !


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Holy crap, Froomedog well inside Tejay's time at the first check!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

I've changed my mind completely - I think Wiggins will destroy Cancellara's time today. And Froome may beat it too.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I've changed my mind completely - I think Wiggins will destroy Cancellara's time today. And Froome may beat it too.


 
Yup, looking that way.

d.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

cant watch it live! just catching it on text. god i hope the highlights are good tonight!!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggins apparently 30 seconds up on Evans already. That's not an official time-check though.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

NIbali doing well in the first section, but he will lose a bit more in the rest which is flatter. One would expect Froome to be slightly less effective over the second and third sections too, maybe...


----------



## marinyork (9 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> NIbali doing well in the first section, but he will lose a bit more in the rest which is flatter. One would expect Froome to be slightly less effective over the second and third sections too, maybe...


 
51seconds does look very good - Nibs lost 3min31 in the Dauphine to Wigs. Think it was something more like two and a half mins to Froome.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Just seen on twitter: "Can anyone see? Has Froome pulled out his earpiece yet?"


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Evans is not getting this right.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggo is.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggins 5 seconds faster than Froome, over a minute faster than Evans!


----------



## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

evans 56 secs down on froome!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Could be Wiggins, Froome 1-2 tonight.


----------



## thom (9 Jul 2012)

Just for context, in the Vuelta I think Brad was comparable to Froome at the first intermediate but he did lose time, particularly towards the end.


----------



## montage (9 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Could be Wiggins, Froome 1-2 tonight.


 
Could be a Wiggins, Froome in two weeks time


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

So if Froome helps Wiggo all the way this year, will 2013 be 1986 all over again?


----------



## montage (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Just for context, in the Vuelta I think Brad was comparable to Froome at the first intermediate but he did lose time, particularly towards the end.


 
Wiggins was ahead of Froome in that one I believe, but later said he went out too hard. Since then wiggins has been covering the 2nd half of the course faster than the first in every single time trial - so things could get even better!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Just for context, in the Vuelta I think Brad was comparable to Froome at the first intermediate but he did lose time, particularly towards the end.


 
Different course here. All the hills at the start, flat at the end. Means Wiggins will speed up more in the final third compared to Froome.


----------



## montage (9 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> So if Froome helps Wiggo all the way this year, will 2013 be 1986 all over again?


 
What happened in 1986?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Le Mond, Hinault... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Tour_de_France


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Lemond vs Hinault.

They were team-mates. Lemond sacrificed his chances to help Hinault win in 1985, on the promise that Hinault would return the favour the following year. Hinault reneged on his promise, so Lemond took him on and "slayed the badger".

d.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Froome 21 seconds in the lead at the end.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

"I'm quicker than Spartacus!"
"No, I'm quicker than Spartacus!"


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## BJH (9 Jul 2012)

This is sensational go Wiggo !!!!


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## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

evans 1.03 down on froome through the second split. wiggins 16 seconds faster than froome!!

can wiggins catch evans before the end?? that would be awesome!


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Evans must be pretty glad they were going at 3min intervals rather than 2min today.


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Good ride by NIbali - didn't lose nearly as much as he could have done.


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## Mad Doug Biker (9 Jul 2012)

Evans in 5th place!


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## Mad Doug Biker (9 Jul 2012)

GO WIGGINS GO WIGGINS GO GO GO!!

1:43 AHEAD of Evans!!


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggins kills it.


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## gavintc (9 Jul 2012)

wow 35 secs better than Froome


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## accountantpete (9 Jul 2012)

1.43 off Evans - what a ride.


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## Cheddar George (9 Jul 2012)

1:43 over Evans !!!

Incisive observation Pete.


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## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

get in!!!! British 1-2!!! will definatly catch the highlights of this tonight!


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## RecordAceFromNew (9 Jul 2012)

I certainly would not put money on Evans keeping his 2nd place overall with Froome only 14 seconds behind him. What an amazing day!!


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Nearly a minute faster than Cancellara in the end. That's just silly.

d.


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## Mad Doug Biker (9 Jul 2012)

Rock and roll!

Wiggins for Yellow, Froome for Green anyone?


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## zimzum42 (9 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Hinault reneged on his promise, so Lemond took him on and "slayed the badger".


I'm going to start using that as a euphemism for masturbation


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## frayBentos59 (9 Jul 2012)

WOWZERS TROUSERS!


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> I certainly would not put money on Evans keeping his 2nd place overall with Froome only 14 seconds behind him. What an amazing day!!


 
Don't forget there's another time trial to come - Evans and Nibali are going to have to do some serious damage in the mountains if they want to prevent a Sky 1-2.

And just imagine if Froome hadn't punctured on stage 1...

d.


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## lejogger (9 Jul 2012)

Phenomenal. Still a very long way to go but that's got to be a blow for Evans. 
Awesome performance Brad and Froomey.


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## marinyork (9 Jul 2012)

That's an amazing performance by several people.

Here's what the 2012 dauphine time trial was 53.5km in June.
Wiggins
Froome + 1min33
Evans 1min43
Nibali 3mins 30

and today
Wiggins
Froome +35
Evans +1min 43
Nibali +2min07

So amazing for Wiggins to win but very good performances by Froome and Nibali.


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## ColinJ (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggo actually looked really happy on the podium for a change!


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## Twizit (9 Jul 2012)

OMG 

Can't wait for the highlights now......


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## thom (9 Jul 2012)

Is Froome down for the Olympic TT ?


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## raindog (9 Jul 2012)

Evans and Nibali will attack like maniacs during the next two weeks. Brad will have to be on his toes, especially on the descents.


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## zimzum42 (9 Jul 2012)

Froome looked like he was 'slaying the badger' during that interview...


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## raindog (9 Jul 2012)

Brad smiling and very relaxed in the post race interview.


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## Willo (9 Jul 2012)

Usually avoid stage results until the highights if I can't watch it live but couldn't resist following bbc's txt commentary today. TTs are my least favourite element of stage racing to watch but looking forward to watching this one. Long way to go which makes me nervous but an awesome showing by Sky so far.


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## frayBentos59 (9 Jul 2012)

What the hell kind of shirt was Tony Gibb wearing on Eurosport?????


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## RecordAceFromNew (9 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Is Froome down for the Olympic TT ?


Yes. 1st August, 44km, finishing at Hampton Court.


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## thom (9 Jul 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Yes. 1st August, 44km, finishing at Hampton Court.


Thanks - of course an isolated TT on the flat is different but looks like GB have a couple of guys to trouble the field.


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## Crackle (9 Jul 2012)

marinyork said:


> That's an amazing performance by several people.
> 
> Here's what the 2012 dauphine time trial was 53.5km in June.
> Wiggins
> ...


 
Menchov, Nibali and Schleck all did good tt's. I don't think Froome is the only one Evans needs to worry about.


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## marinyork (9 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Menchov, Nibali and Schleck all did good tt's. I don't think Froome is the only one Evans needs to worry about.


 
You can make the Menchov comparison between the dauphine and today's stage (don't think Kloden rode the dauphiné), but Menchov isn't bad at time trialling so I wouldn't personally flag it up that much. I just figured he had a bad day in June. (3mins 12 down on Wiggins vs 2mins 8 today). I was expecting Nibali to lose more vs Wiggins and more vs Evans, so it makes the race more exciting. Menchov isn't that far behind. Have to see how he does in this lot of mountains. Schleck I'm not so sure of because he managed to lose 4 seconds on the others yesterday (how?). If that sort of thing got repeated I can see him being dropped very easily.

By a similar argument Van den Broek had a good 'un today and do did Taaramae (despite losing the white jersey).


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## Steve H (9 Jul 2012)

I don't think they'll do it, but I think an interesting tactic for future stages would be to put Froome in the break-away. He could cruise along not doing much work because Wiggins would be in the peloton. Would also mean Sky wouldn't have to do all the peloton's chasing work because if the break wasn't caught Froome would get yellow!


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## martint235 (9 Jul 2012)

All day I stayed away from this thread so I could watch the highlights and then f***ing BBC London gave the result in their "and coming up at 6.30" thing


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## gaz (9 Jul 2012)

Did I hear right on the highlight show.
Tony Martin caught next rider. Had a flat in the first 5km and couldn't even hold the time trial position? All with a fractured wrist?? BEAST!


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## Kiwiavenger (9 Jul 2012)

gaz said:


> Did I hear right on the highlight show.
> Tony Martin caught next rider. Had a flat in the first 5km and couldn't even hold the time trial position? All with a fractured wrist?? BEAST!



I heard that too! Fair play

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## smutchin (9 Jul 2012)

Monfort is another who did better than might have been expected. Overall, Radioshack are looking a very strong team... apart from their team leader. 

d.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Jul 2012)

Wiggins created a new record today. He is the first British yellow jersey to actually increase his lead in the tour.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2012)

As l'Equipe says, ''If Sky played football they'd be leading 2-0 just before half time with 75% of the possession.''


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## lukesdad (9 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> I don't think they'll do it, but I think an interesting tactic for future stages would be to put Froome in the break-away. He could cruise along not doing much work because Wiggins would be in the peloton. Would also mean Sky wouldn't have to do all the peloton's chasing work because if the break wasn't caught Froome would get yellow!


 
That wouldn t be their choice the other teams just would not let it happen.


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## Willo (9 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> All day I stayed away from this thread so I could watch the highlights and then f***ing BBC London gave the result in their "and coming up at 6.30" thing


 
Happened to me last week. Avoided the stage result all day only for the south east news to suddenly announce that Cavendish had won making the link to local lad Sean Yates' role at Sky. It has been getting more and more difficult avoiding the results with the popularity increasing over recent years and this year is just going to get worse with Wiggings and Sky leading the way (not that I'm complaining of course!)


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## thom (9 Jul 2012)

gaz said:


> Did I hear right on the highlight show.
> Tony Martin caught next rider. Had a flat in the first 5km and couldn't even hold the time trial position? All with a fractured wrist?? BEAST!


Here he is after the stage :
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...board=tour-de-france&id=1726461859001&yr=2012


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## Chuffy (9 Jul 2012)

Willo said:


> Happened to me last week. Avoided the stage result all day only for the south east news to suddenly announce that Cavendish had won making the link to local lad Sean Yates' role at Sky. It has been getting more and more difficult avoiding the results with the popularity increasing over recent years and this year is just going to get worse with Wiggings and Sky leading the way (not that I'm complaining of course!)


Curse you mainstream TV! How dare you catch up on our favourite nice sport!


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## Chuffy (9 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> I don't think they'll do it, but I think an interesting tactic for future stages would be to put Froome in the break-away. He could cruise along not doing much work because Wiggins would be in the peloton. Would also mean Sky wouldn't have to do all the peloton's chasing work because if the break wasn't caught Froome would get yellow!


Hmmmm. I can't see other riders in the break being happy to drag Froome - the likes of Liquigas and BMC would be 100% guaranteed to chase them down. I don't think Wiggy would be chuffed at Froome getting yellow either - it would mean an awkward handover or Brad having to genuinely beat Froome in a TT for the missing seconds.


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## Chrisc (9 Jul 2012)

gaz said:


> Did I hear right on the highlight show.
> Tony Martin caught next rider. Had a flat in the first 5km and couldn't even hold the time trial position? All with a fractured wrist?? BEAST!



These guys aren't Wendyballers are they. :-)


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## Paul_L (10 Jul 2012)

Do Sky have a bit of a dilemma with Froome now being a realistic podium chance, or even a Sky and British 1-2?

With Froome seemingly being Brad's last man in the mountains after EBH, Barry and Porte have done their shifts, will there be a temptation to look to protect him a bit more, and thus allowing BMC or Liquigas to take advantage of Sky not being in full control?

I don't know if i'm looking for problems that don't exist, and whilst it would be awesome for Froome to end up on the podium, the main objective of Brad ending up in yellow shouldn't be lost.

That said, i'm sure Davey B has it all in hand!


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## Noodley (10 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact: due to it being a rest day there will be lots of specualtion about stuff that is made up by people looking for things to speculate about.


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## beastie (10 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact: due to it being a rest day there will be lots of specualtion about stuff that is made up by people looking for things to speculate about.



That is not a fact, but merely speculation.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2012)

Paul_L said:


> Do Sky have a bit of a dilemma with Froome now being a realistic podium chance, or even a Sky and British 1-2?


 
No. They are riding for Wiggins, and unless he gets injured or cracks so badly that he has no hope of winning, that is what they will do. If Froome stays in the Top 3 just by being the best lieutenant he can be, then so much the better.


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## LosingFocus (10 Jul 2012)

Martin abandons the Tour.

"I cannot imagine sitting in the back of the peloton suffering every day a little bit more as I did during this week"


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)




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## PpPete (10 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Martin abandons the Tour.
> 
> "I cannot imagine sitting in the back of the peloton suffering every day a little bit more as I did during this week"


 
Dan?
Tony?


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2012)

Tony. He's been riding with a fractured wrist.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> No. They are riding for Wiggins, and unless he gets injured or cracks so badly that he has no hope of winning, that is what they will do. If Froome stays in the Top 3 just by being the best lieutenant he can be, then so much the better.


It might not work out like that. Wiggins is a strong climber but one paced, Froome is more of a natural and better able to go with the attacks. Should Evans, Nibali or Schlek get away Froome would be in the perfect position of being able to go with them in defence of his team leader and not having to do any work. I'd like to see Wiggins win the race, but my money is on Froome. It ain't over yet.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/roche-predicts-fireworks-mountains-tour-de-france-2012/




> Roche added: "I do understand - it is frustrating to be in a situation like Bradley's, but we should be able to hold back and be courteous in the situation.
> "We have a certain role to play as a role model for kids."


 
I wonder... Does being a courteous doper set a better example than having a dirty mouth but clean legs?

d.


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## Dr Smut (10 Jul 2012)

What are Radioshack going to do with Zubeldia and Montfort ? Both can climb...


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> It might not work out like that. Wiggins is a strong climber but one paced, Froome is more of a natural and better able to go with the attacks. Should Evans, Nibali or Schlek get away Froome would be in the perfect position of being able to go with them in defence of his team leader and not having to do any work. I'd like to see Wiggins win the race, but my money is on Froome. It ain't over yet.


 
That could happen. But I don't think in an era where we are seeing fewer 'unbelievable' climbing performances, that a well-organized team like Sky will allow many attacks to get away, and certainly not those containing serious contenders. They will try where they can, on the steadier climbs, to ride as they did in the Dauphiné, and where they can't, on the steeper slopes, it will be a Wiggins-Froome tag team as in the Vuelta.

In any case, Wiggins is a very similar rider to Ryder Hesjedal, who prevailed against much better natural climbers on more difficult climbs in the Giro, but Wiggins is a better all-round rider than Hesjedal IMHO. And he's much improved in form since the Vuelta last year, and he has a stronger team (even one down). Evans isn't really that much better a climber and he's also limited when it comes to sudden attacks. Schleck is no threat at all this year. I think Nibali and Van den Broeck will be the biggest GC threats in the mountains, but Nibali lacks Wiggins' staying power, and VbD is too far down, and with another TT on the penultimate day, so long as Wiggins marks his rivals, even if he loses a few seconds here and there (or even a few minutes in the case of VdB), if he rides sensibly, he will come into that knowing that it will ensure his win.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> ... still cant help being nervous he's in yellow so early though.


 
Oh, there's so much that could go wrong, undoubtedly. But that's why we watch...


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## Crackle (10 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> It might not work out like that. Wiggins is a strong climber but one paced, Froome is more of a natural and better able to go with the attacks. Should Evans, Nibali or Schlek get away Froome would be in the perfect position of being able to go with them in defence of his team leader and not having to do any work. I'd like to see Wiggins win the race, but my money is on Froome. It ain't over yet.


 
I think Froome is there to pace him back to any attacks. What blew Wiggins in the 2009 tour were the constant accelerations, he can't respond to them. Froome will bring him back and help him in any chase. Wiggins would have to blow badly for them to release Froome and even then I can't see it, they didn't do it at the Vuelta.


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## thom (10 Jul 2012)

Not looking good for Cofidis and Di Gregorio - arrested on the rest day re. doping enquiry ?
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2012-07-10-lejsl.htm


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## Slaav (10 Jul 2012)

Not that I know anything about TdF as only really got into it last two years but I cannot help but think Evans picked up the jersey with a day or two to go last year? Wasn't Voekler (Sp?) in yellow for most of the race?


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## thom (10 Jul 2012)

Slaav said:


> Not that I know anything about TdF as only really got into it last two years but I cannot help but think Evans picked up the jersey with a day or two to go last year? Wasn't Voekler (Sp?) in yellow for most of the race?


Yes but that wan't because he didn't want it earlier !


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Evans isn't really that much better a climber...


 
True. I would have thought the threat from Evans will come more on the descents, for example, on stage 16 where there's a long downhill to the finish after the final climb.

Liquigas working as a team could be more of a threat on the mountaintop finishes, perhaps, although they didn't ever manage to shake off Hesjedal in the Giro...

d.


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## Crackle (10 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Not looking good for Cofidis and Di Gregorio - arrested on the rest day re. doping enquiry ?
> http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2012-07-10-lejsl.htm


 
I loved one of the responses on twitter from adonais

"Kudos to the French police for finding him because nobody watching the race has seen him"


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)

Apparently, the arrest of Di Gregorio relates to a dossier that's been open on him since last year, when he was at Astana. The French press feel it's very important to mention this, for some reason.

However, even if Cofidis weren't directly involved, if he was carrying on doping after he joined them, it doesn't reflect well on their internal control system. You'd think Cofidis of all teams would have learned that lesson.

d.


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## raindog (10 Jul 2012)

LOL 
When he won that stage in Paris-Nice last year I posted in CC something like "We've waited in vain three years for Di Gregorio to win something, he's just been taken under Vino's wing at Astana and suddenly wins a stage of an important race. hmmmmmm......"


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## montage (10 Jul 2012)

It'll be hard to claw more than a handful of seconds back each descent... If you think of how far you can travel over 10 seconds doing 60kph, the gap is pretty big, but the time difference is pretty negligible unless he can pull it off every single stage. Evans and Nibali can claw back a bit of time like this, but ultimately, they will have to win the tour going uphill.


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## Shadow (10 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> It'll be hard to claw more than a handful of seconds back each descent... If you think of how far you can travel over 10 seconds doing 60kph, the gap is pretty big, but the time difference is pretty negligible unless he can pull it off every single stage. Evans and Nibali can claw back a bit of time like this, but ultimately, they will have to win the tour going uphill.


 
Yes, indeed, but seeing CE and VN storm off down the mountain puts pressure on Sky, even if only mentally. Such pressure could lead to an error of judgement and then...who knows. Both Froome and Tressiakoff both nearly came a cropper on sunday on the same stretch of road. Froome and Wiggins will need to keep calm and relaxed on the long descents.


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)

To be fair, montage has a good point. I was thinking in particular of Voeckler's win in 2010 on the same descent, but forgetting that he was already some way clear of the chasers at the top of the climb. Ballan, who was only a handful of seconds behind Voeckler at the summit, finished 1:20 behind him.

That was the same stage where Schleck lost his chain on the climb and Contador attacked, but even Schleck (a notoriously bad descender) only lost 39 seconds to Sammy Sanchez (one of the best descenders in the business).

d.


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## marinyork (10 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> To be fair, montage has a good point. I was thinking in particular of Voeckler's win in 2010 on the same descent, but forgetting that he was already some way clear of the chasers at the top of the climb. Ballan, who was only a handful of seconds behind Voeckler at the summit, finished 1:20 behind him.
> 
> That was the same stage where Schleck lost his chain on the climb and Contador attacked, but even Schleck (a notoriously bad descender) only lost 39 seconds to Sammy Sanchez (one of the best descenders in the business).
> 
> d.


 
Tomorrow's stage is a not quite carbon copy of one of the stages in the Dauphiné. I reckon it should be good for Nibali to attack downhill. On the other hand in June the major contenders all finished with the same time although the ending is fractionally different - this one is slightly uphill.

Apart from that there is the other on stage 16 as you said. I know it's not the final climb but the descent of the Aspin is very technical isn't it?

I wasn't surprised nothing came of yesterday's downhill. The profile of the stage looked downhill but quite elongated end and you sometimes see people catching up just before the finish in those situations even if someone does escape.


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## alecstilleyedye (10 Jul 2012)

the tour is sky's to lose now. wiggins and froome will take time in the final tt, so it's up to the others to take time off the pair of them in the mountains. only cuddles could risk attacking and taking froome with him, but given their performances in the time trial, it would be risky to say the least.

i'd be tempted to let froome attack on the final climb, force the others to go with him. let the attack come to nothing after a few hundred meters and then get wiggins to go. doesn't matter who finishes on wiggins' wheels, or even a few seconds ahead…


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## Smokin Joe (10 Jul 2012)

It isn't just about climbing or TTing ability, but good days and bad days. If you were Froome and you were on fire and you could see your team-mate just about hanging on, what would you do? It's the biggest race on the planet and ultimately no one in GB or indeed in Sky will give a monkeys about which of the two takes the top step in Paris. The only thing nobody wants is to see them become openly hostile and let someone else in.


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## RecordAceFromNew (10 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> If you were Froome and you were on fire and *you could see your team-mate just about hanging on, what would you do?* It's the biggest race on the planet and ultimately no one in GB or indeed in Sky will give a monkeys about which of the two takes the top step in Paris. The only thing nobody wants is to see them become openly hostile and let someone else in.


 
Interesting strategic choice for the team isn't it? On one hand you have Wiggins' couple of minutes of advantage over the opposition to defend, on the other you have the option of allowing Froome not only to take over and keeping the jersey in house, and (at a much lower priority) also securing another position on the podium. I wonder if the team's decisiion might be for Wiggo to do the calculation and decide (e.g. whether he thinks he will lose more than the couple of minutes he has even if Froome burn himself out to tow him along), after all he will be right up there knowing the competition and his own condition better than anybody in the team car.

For sure they will do everything they can to keep the jersey in the team.


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## Noodley (10 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> That is not a fact, but merely speculation.


 
Nope, deffo a fact. As can be seen from the above posts


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## PpPete (10 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Not looking good for Cofidis and Di Gregorio - arrested on the rest day re. doping enquiry ?
> http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2012-07-10-lejsl.htm


 
That whole website looks well researched and put together over a long period of time. Certainly opened my eyes to a lot of the history - but I can read and speak French quite adequately.
Anyone know if there is an English equivalent at that level of detail and thorough cross-referencing?
Would be "required reading" for any remaining LA fanboys....


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## Steve H (10 Jul 2012)

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pleased it's a rest day today. I'm exhausted from all this watching!


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## Dave Davenport (10 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pleased it's a rest day today. I'm exhausted from all this watching!


Yep, I might not have any fingernails left in a couple of weeks.


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## thom (10 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Anyone know if there is an English equivalent at that level of detail and thorough cross-referencing?


These guys might have some interesting stuff - not sure if it's exactly what you are looking for though
http://www.sportsscientists.com/


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## Willo (10 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pleased it's a rest day today. I'm exhausted from all this watching!


 
Yep, a combo of a relatively exciting / dramatic first week coupled with a strong British interest in GC is making it tense stuff for me.

Re the general gist of the thread, I can't see Sky going through the entire Tour without a bad day or 2 - it's just a case of limiting any losses when that happens. As a very nervy descender myself, I find the descents tough to watch. I know it's part of cycling, but I much prefer the mountain top finishes. I hope Sky measure carefully any risks they take on those stages or else look to attack on the up to offset Evans and co. making time back up on the descent.

Whatever, it's a good dilemma for Sky to be in. I couldn't help but worry that they got Yellow too early but given how things have gone difficult to know how they could have remained poised to hold off until the final TT. And with a strong team, you'd hope that there will be someone each day able to mark the rivals and/or pull Wiggins along at the front. Wished I'd had an e/w flutter on Froome now!


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## Isla Valassi (10 Jul 2012)

Paul_L said:


> Do Sky have a bit of a dilemma with Froome now being a realistic podium chance, or even a Sky and British 1-2?
> 
> With Froome seemingly being Brad's last man in the mountains after EBH, Barry and Porte have done their shifts, will there be a temptation to look to protect him a bit more, and thus allowing BMC or Liquigas to take advantage of Sky not being in full control?
> 
> ...


 
How predictable! Suddenly Froome is British........just like Zola Budd was 'British' I suppose?!. Froome is only as 'British' as the rest of the foreigners on Team Sky. The only slight difference I suppose is that he holds a British race licence.


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## beastie (10 Jul 2012)

Sky should look at the threats of attacks in the mountains as an opportunity also. If Evans, Nibali or even VDB attack from a long way out and Sky bring it back even as late as the final climb, Froome should be well suited to counter.


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## 400bhp (10 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> Sky should look at the threats of attacks in the mountains as an opportunity also. If Evans, Nibali or even *VDB* attack from a long way out and Sky bring it back even as late as the final climb, Froome should be well suited to counter.


 
Inevitable he is going to go for a long way out isn't it? Just a matter of when.

Can't wait for the racing to start again tomorrow.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2012)

Isla Valassi said:


> How predictable! Suddenly Froome is British........just like Zola Budd was 'British' I suppose?!. Froome is only as 'British' as the rest of the foreigners on Team Sky. The only slight difference I suppose is that he holds a British race licence.


 
Because his father was British. In other words he's just as 'British' as Wiggins. He is allowed to decide which country he rides for... just like my son would be. You got a problem with that?


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## Chuffy (10 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Because his father was British. In other words he's just as 'British' as Wiggins. He is allowed to decide which country he rides for... just like my son would be. *You got a problem with that?*


Don't *ever* spill Flying Monkey's pint.


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## zimzum42 (10 Jul 2012)

I'm looking forward to FM's part in the new ITV series, Ross Kemp on Academics


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## smutchin (10 Jul 2012)

Isla Valassi said:


> How predictable! Suddenly Froome is British........just like Zola Budd was 'British' I suppose?!.



Don't be soft. Froome has always been British, even when he was rubbish and riding for Barloworld. 

Edit for corroboration:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-readies-for-seasons-second-half-and-new-team
(I know the piece describes him as Kenyan but it also mentions that he's had a British racing licence since 2008 and came 4th in the British national championship in 2009. That's plenty British enough for me. Since 2008. When he was rubbish.)

d.


----------



## Chuffy (11 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> I'm looking forward to FM's part in the new ITV series, Ross Kemp on Academics


Is that the one where he calls Noam Chomsky a waaaaankaaah?


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 Jul 2012)

Sean Kelly: Wiggins mentally fragile

I am not sure fragile is the word I would use, seems more like short fused. Not an unreasonable or unfriendly warning though, given the two recent post race encounters with the press and prior history, and anything could happen on the long road to Paris.


----------



## brockers (11 Jul 2012)

I'd agree with you there RecordAce. I think Kelly's wrong there. Wiggo can be a bit short fused, but he doesn't come across to me as having a fragile personality. Mark Cavendish (remember him?) on the other hand....


----------



## dragon72 (11 Jul 2012)

I was born in England, but my mum's from Botswana and my dad's from Scotland. I was raised in the USA, Hong Kong and Norway. Now I call Mexico home. Who should I compete for? and who should be pissed off that I'm not competing for them? Who gives a toss? 
I like Cancellara and Froome and Sagan. No matter where they're from.


----------



## Noodley (11 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact: One winner of the overall combativity award did not complete the Tour - Cyrille Guimard in 1972, when he was also given the green points jersey by Eddy Merckx after he was forced to retire 2 days before the end of the Tour when leading the greeen jersey competition. Guimard later went on to be DS for Hinault, Fignon and van Impe when they won the Tour.

As a doping-related aside, in the 1972 Tour, Guimard's medical "treatment" was provided by Bernard Sainz, aka Dr Mabuse. It is reported that prior to his withdrawal from the 1972 Guimard was lifted to and from his bike due to the level of pain in his knees.


----------



## Noodley (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Because his father was British. In other words he's just as 'British' as Wiggins. He is allowed to decide which country he rides for... just like my son would be. You got a problem with that?


 
Darth Vader, is that you?


----------



## Isla Valassi (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Don't be soft. Froome has always been British, even when he was rubbish and riding for Barloworld.
> 
> Edit for corroboration:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-readies-for-seasons-second-half-and-new-team
> ...


Bet he would be all a splutter if you asked him if he considers himself British


----------



## Isla Valassi (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Because his father was British. In other words he's just as 'British' as Wiggins. He is allowed to decide which country he rides for... just like my son would be. You got a problem with that?


Just pointing out an 'interesting' observation..........................keep your hair on


----------



## just jim (11 Jul 2012)

Maybe it's Froome's turn next time? BBC link. The thought occurred to me after he dished it out on stage 7.


----------



## crisscross (11 Jul 2012)

Hyperthetical question ( from drunken rest day bar talk) -

There's a small break away 5km from end with all the leaders in it and the team cars are way back.

Wiggins breaks his chain - does Froome jump off his bike and hand it to the GC leader or ride off into the sunset?

Is it even allowed to swap bikes?


----------



## Dave Davenport (11 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> Hyperthetical question ( from drunken rest day bar talk) -
> 
> There's a small break away 5km from end with all the leaders in it and the team cars are way back.
> 
> ...


 
Yes & yes.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Isla Valassi said:


> Bet he would be all a splutter if you asked him if he considers himself British



Well, he's quoted in that piece as saying he's British...

Tbh, as others have said, I really don't think it's important. This is cycling, not football - we cheer on riders we like regardless of their nationality/tribal allegiance. 

My personal favourite is Sylvain Chavanel, Noodley *hearts* Sandy Casar and Flying Monkey has a thing for young Colombians...

d.


----------



## PpPete (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Well, he's quoted in that piece as saying he's British...
> 
> Tbh, as others have said, I really don't think it's important. This is cycling, not football - we cheer on riders we like regardless of their nationality/tribal allegiance.
> 
> ...




OTH ... there are certain teams we love to hate. Cofidis anyone?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> OTH ... there are certain teams we love to hate. Cofidis anyone?



Well, Astana are very easy to dislike, being a cabal of comedy East European Bond villains and all that. (And yet I still find myself rooting for Vino in spite of everything...)

And GreenEdge. They're Australian - need I say more?

d.


----------



## lukesdad (11 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact: One winner of the overall combativity award did not complete the Tour - Cyrille Guimard in 1972, when he was also given the green points jersey by Eddy Merckx after he was forced to retire 2 days before the end of the Tour when leading the greeen jersey competition. Guimard later went on to be DS for Hinault, Fignon and van Impe when they won the Tour.
> 
> As a doping-related aside, in the 1972 Tour, Guimard's medical "treatment" was provided by Bernard Sainz, aka Dr Mabuse. It is reported that prior to his withdrawal from the 1972 Guimard was lifted to and from his bike due to the level of pain in his knees.


 
..and I had a sleepless night waiting for that !


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

I was born in England to English parents. We emigrated to New Zealand when I was 5. I returned to the UK when I was 21. So my nationality is a confusing issue for me. I say I'm an NZer because I that's the country with which I mainly identify (though I admit it's never clear cut). However, I'm classed as British by my cycling club mates (and I've given up protesting!) because I was born in England. My passport says I'm British and I enjoy the privileges of that, though I don't feel a strong personal affiliation.

So, from my standpoint, I'd say Froome is whatever he says he is and it's for nobody else to decide (outside of a legal context that is). Context dependant innit? It bothers me not either way. I don't tend to be influenced by a sense of patriotism.

Raining here today so I'm may be sat in front of the tv again this afternoon.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Anyway, predictions for today?

Got to be a suicidal assault on the Grand Colombier by Liquigas. Koren, Nerz, Szmyd and Basso to give Sky a lesson in the true meaning of riding high tempo on a climb...

Here's a supplementary to Noodley's daily fact: local hero of the day is Maxim Bouet, whose mum's ashes are scattered on the summit of the Grand Colombier. His dad rides up there once a week in tribute to her. Expect him to be in any breakaway. 

d.


----------



## raindog (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> His dad rides up there once a week in tribute to her. Expect him to be in any breakaway.


his dad?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Yes, on the basis that Sky have shown the benefits of in-depth reconnaissance, Maxime Bouet Sr is one of the favourites for today's stage. 

d.


----------



## perplexed (11 Jul 2012)

Just wondering, what happens if Nibali doesn't have much joy in the next couple of days, what would Liquigas do?

If he makes no impression on Wiggins, Froome and Evans, would Liquigas then think more about concentrating on keeping Sagan in green, thus maybe easing the pressure on the GC?


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> Just wondering, what happens if Nibali doesn't have much joy in the next couple of days, what would Liquigas do?
> 
> If he makes no impression on Wiggins, Froome and Evans, would Liquigas then think more about concentrating on keeping Sagan in green, thus maybe easing the pressure on the GC?


Yes but no but. 
How much has Liquigas as a team done for Sagan ? They would have worked to keep Nibali out of trouble and Sagan beneifts from that but in terms of lead outs, Sagan hasn't really had that much specific help.
Which parallels the Cavendish situation - Cav would have benefited from a train and dedicated protection but I think Sagan would still be leading the points comp at this stage.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

Sagan in the first attack of the day. Is this for sprint points or to be up the road to help Nibali with some tasty descending late in the day ?
Still early doors.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Which parallels the Cavendish situation - Cav would have benefited from a train and dedicated protection but I think Sagan would still be leading the points comp at this stage.


 
Funny, isn't it, that before the race all the talk was of whether Sky could do the green-yellow double, but in the event, Liquigas look better equipped for that particular challenge.

d.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

Big break with 2 mins advantage:
Burghardt and Cummings (BMC), Popovych and Voigt (RNT), Arashiro (EUC), Martinez (EUS), Sagan (LIQ), Scarponi (LAM), Millar and Zabriskie (GRS), Peraud (ALM), Jeandesboz (SAU), Horrach (KAT), Casar, Hutarovich and Ladagnous,(FDJ), Sanchez (RAB), Kroon and Morkov (STB), Fofonov and Grivko (AST), Devenyns (OPQ), Gerrans and Goss (OGE)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

Isla Valassi said:


> Just pointing out an 'interesting' observation..........................keep your hair on


 
I probably should have added a smiley to show that I wasn't 100% serious...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Flying Monkey has a thing for young Colombians...


 
Careful now...


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

I love to listen to Sean Yates speaking French... he's sounds more Lundun than when he speaks English! 

I wonder what Voekler's plans are? His knees are surely not up to going it alone so I guess he's just 'up the road' for Rolland later??


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Looking at the pics of the Grand Colombier... what an absolutely stunning chunk of scenery!


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

So Sagan is indeed still in front of the peloton, awaiting Nibali I suspect...


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

Is there a Gurner of The Day' award? 'cause Voekler would win it today! Top effort to be first over the top... can he go the distance?


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

So has Nibali got enough now ? He now risks getting caught and dropped by the end of the day


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

That was either a test by Nibali or a complete waste of time and energy...

Van den Broeck on the other hand, is doing things more carefully, I think.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That was either a test by Nibali or a complete waste of time and energy...
> 
> Van den Broeck on the other hand, is doing things more carefully, I think.


I think that was more than a test - had Sagan been able to make it to the top of the last climb with Nibali they could have made it work. It's just Sky had serious fire power, even having lost Mick Rogers before he had been able to contribute.
Great riding by Richie Porte now.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I think that was more than a test - had Sagan been able to make it to the top of the last climb with Nibali they could have made it work.


 
That was certainly a possibility, but he was never going to do it on his own. I guess he was hoping Evans or Van den Broeck or other contenders might go with him. But there doesn't seem to be an organized cross-team anti-Wiggins movement yet...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

Come on Tommy!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 Jul 2012)

Not bad for a man with a dicky knee huh


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

Great ride by Scarponi too. If he can do that a few times he will be right back in contention.


----------



## Cheddar George (11 Jul 2012)

Great win for Tommy Voeckler, one of my favorites, i loved the way he rode in yellow last year.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

Well done Thomas Voeckler



Flying_Monkey said:


> But there doesn't seem to be an organized cross-team anti-Wiggins movement yet...


Yeah - you wonder the extent to which Wiggins is so far ahead that some in the GC are already more worried about losing time on each other.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (11 Jul 2012)

Blimey, what a slog!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

VdB rode cannily today. If he can take 30 seconds back here and there he will also have a good chance in the GC by the end.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Excellent ride by Van den Broeck. Canny is the right word for it. Knew I picked him in my fantasy team for a reason...

d.


----------



## beastie (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Great ride by Scarponi too. If he can do that a few times he will be right back in contention.



I doubt Scarponi will allowed in the breaks now.


----------



## lukesdad (11 Jul 2012)

Superb from Jens too viva la 3 Vs


----------



## beastie (11 Jul 2012)

VDB looked the strongest, and maybe also the canniest of the GC men today. Wiggins seemed pretty comfortable though. Tomorrow is better suited for an attack on Sky. If Wiggins has a similar sized lead after the final climb he should hold the yellow all the way to Paris. 

I expect Evans to give it his best tomorrow.


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

I'm baffled... and forgive what might seem a stupid question.... has the climbers competition changed this year? Is there no overall? Just stunned to see Voekler given the polka dots.

He rode out of his skin today, dicky knees and all. Chapeau sir


----------



## beastie (11 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'm baffled... and forgive what might seem a stupid question.... has the climbers competition changed this year? Is there no overall? Just stunned to see Voekler given the polka dots.
> 
> He rode out of his skin today, dicky knees and all. Chapeau sir



TV leads because he picked up more points on one climb (HC) than anyone had accrued through the rest of the race so far.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> I expect Evans to give it his best tomorrow.


Tomorrow is the stage I've been most looking forward to - spectacular climbs and real attacking possibilities.
But I think the only way Cadel will get significant time back on Wiggins will be due to a crash, mechanical or illness now.


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

Cheers beastie.

I just googled it and found that there had been changes but there's still an overall. As you say, TV just collected enough points today to top the table. I don't think he had KOM points before today.

Double points for the summit finish tomorrow.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

There are still some big stages in the Pyrenees too... Stage 17 is a mountaintop finish and Stage 16 is just a beast. It won't be all over tomorrow by any means.


----------



## yello (11 Jul 2012)

Double points for stage 17 finish too btw.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'm baffled... and forgive what might seem a stupid question.... has the climbers competition changed this year? Is there no overall? Just stunned to see Voekler given the polka dots.


 
As I understand it, they changed the scoring because people were winning by sweeping up all the 3rd and 4th cat climbs, so they've weighted it to favour the genuine climbers in much the same way they tweaked the points comp last year to favour the sprinters.

d.


----------



## beastie (11 Jul 2012)

No, but if Wiggins still has 1m 30s lead before stage 16 he can afford to lose 2 mins plus and still win the ITT. I am unconvinced that Evans will be stronger uphill to be honest. Isn't it interesting - not a boring parcours at all.

Edit Above was response to FM last post.


----------



## frayBentos59 (11 Jul 2012)

apologies if this has been mentioned already (accessing site on phone) but did Boardman on ITV actually say 'just having a dick in' to quickly correct himself with dig in????


----------



## User169 (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> As I understand it, they changed the scoring because people were winning by sweeping up all the 3rd and 4th cat climbs, so they've weighted it to favour the genuine climbers in much the same way they tweaked the points comp last year to favour the sprinters.
> 
> d.


 
No more wins a la tricky dicky then. Sounds like a good plan!


----------



## doctornige (11 Jul 2012)

I too a looking fwd to the Albertville stage, but a, travelling all day! Bah!


----------



## srw (11 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> No, but if Wiggins still has 1m 30s lead before stage 16 he can afford to lose 2 mins plus and still win the ITT. I am unconvinced that Evans will be stronger uphill to be honest.


Has Wiggins actually had to do any work yet (other than in the ITT)? I've not watched the highlights of every stage, but when I have watched he's always been in someone else's wheel - either one of his team-mates, or Evans's. On the other hand all of his main competitors have spent large chunks of time at the front on their own.

I'm no expert, but what's really impressed me has been the willingness and ability of Sky to work as a unit - to sacrifice ego to the greater good.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

srw said:


> Has Wiggins actually had to do any work yet (other than in the ITT)? I've not watched the highlights of every stage, but when I have watched he's always been in someone else's wheel - either one of his team-mates, or Evans's. On the other hand all of his main competitors have spent large chunks of time at the front on their own.


 
It's true and I am sure he learned from Evans in this respect... Wiggins is doing so well at least partly by knowing his own limitations and how to compensate for them as much as his strengths.


----------



## Smokin Joe (11 Jul 2012)

Indurain and Armstrong rode the same way. Strong teams to set a fast pace and discourage attacks and hold onto the time you've gained in the TTs. In theory you finish with the same time as your rivals everyday and occasionally pinch a bit more when they pay for the efforts they had to make.

It actually makes for a boring tour, but it's very effective and you can't criticise riders for playing to their strengths.


----------



## Baggy (11 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact: One winner of the overall combativity award did not complete the Tour....


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

He hasn't had to do anything so far but let's not mistake that for not being able to do anything if he needs to - remember the way he chased down the Evans escape at the Dauphiné? I'm sure Evans hasn't forgotten and I wonder how much it's preying on his mind...

d.


----------



## Auntie Helen (11 Jul 2012)

frayBentos59 said:


> apologies if this has been mentioned already (accessing site on phone) but did Boardman on ITV actually say 'just having a dick in' to quickly correct himself with dig in????


I heard him say 'dick head' and then he corrected it, so even worse!


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

Nibali's getting a bit upset here about Brad. Not sure I have much sympathy with him if it is true that he publicly said he didn't rate Wiggins as a rider before the tour.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> It actually makes for a boring tour, but it's very effective and you can't criticise riders for playing to their strengths.



Yes, plus the team is working so well at the moment, there's a danger they could end up just carrying him all the way to Paris. That would be boring indeed. I'd really like to see him tested properly and show that he can respond to it. It would be a bit of an anticlimax if we finally got a first British Tour winner without witnessing any real racing from him.

Winning a road stage would really be the icing on the cake - and would kill off the comparisons to Indurain. He's shown that he can contest a small group sprint at Romandie, so let's hope he gets the chance to do the same at the Tour. 

d.


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Nibali's getting a bit upset here about Brad. Not sure I have much sympathy with him if it is true that he publicly said he didn't rate Wiggins as a rider before the tour.


Nope, no sympathy at all.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Nibali's getting a bit upset here about Brad. Not sure I have much sympathy with him if it is true that he publicly said he didn't rate Wiggins as a rider before the tour.



I have _some_ sympathy for Nibali. I get the impression he'd be happier about losing to Wiggins if he thought Wiggins had been made to work for it. He'd rather lose to Froome, clearly.

d.


----------



## Noodley (11 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


>


 
Another successful not-very-interesting fact.


----------



## Baggy (11 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Another successful not-very-interesting fact.


Indeed, how will you keep this up?


----------



## Noodley (11 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


> Indeed, how will you keep this up?


 
I have been in training. The rest day did me good tho.


----------



## thom (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I have _some_ sympathy for Nibali. I get the impression he'd be happier about losing to Wiggins if he thought Wiggins had been made to work for it. He'd rather lose to Froome, clearly.
> 
> d.


I sort of agree if you mean he'd be happier if he thought Wiggins had more talent and "panache".
Wiggoisticly, you'd be a "w****r" to think he and his team had not sacrificed and worked "f*****g" hard for his form and to get where they are now.... 

This type of behaviour shows the team has full confidence in their leader :


----------



## Chuffy (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Nibali's getting a bit upset here about Brad. Not sure I have much sympathy with him if it is true that he publicly said he didn't rate Wiggins as a rider before the tour.


Probably the most successful attack he'll make all Tour.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Probably the most successful attack he'll make all Tour.


 
Ha ha. I'm afraid Nibali is being a hypocrite and a sore loser. He basically wrote Wiggins off before the Tour, so Wiggins is well within his rights to turn it back on him just a little. And at least he's not saying anything in public, unlike Nibali...


----------



## montage (11 Jul 2012)

Nibali has a real chip on his shoulder about Wiggo, and it's turning him from one of my favoured riders into me thinking the he's a bit of a prick. Fair play for his aggressive riding style so far though


----------



## Beebo (11 Jul 2012)

was that the slowest sprint finish ever? good to see all 4 men totally spent.

even i could have won that last 1km sprint, if i has a 193km head start.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I have *some sympathy* for Nibali. I get the impression he'd be happier about losing to Wiggins if he thought Wiggins had been made to work for it. He'd rather lose to Froome, clearly.
> 
> d.


 
Some sympathy? I would think someone might rightly say if that big mouthed Italian had got off his arse and did some real work and made something out of his life... like not losing 9" in the Prologue and 2' 7" in the TT then he would be effing close to if not actually wearing the yellow jersey himself now wouldn't he?


----------



## Twizit (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Ha ha. I'm afraid Nibali is being a hypocrite and a sore loser. He basically wrote Wiggins off before the Tour, so Wiggins is well within his rights to turn it back on him just a little. And at least he's not saying anything in public, unlike Nibali...



"like"

I mean, clearly Nibali showed Wiggo's lots of respect before the tour started with his mouthing off....


----------



## Chuffy (11 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Ha ha. I'm afraid Nibali is being a hypocrite and a sore loser. He basically wrote Wiggins off before the Tour, so Wiggins is well within his rights to turn it back on him just a little. And at least he's not saying anything in public, unlike Nibali...


Well, yes. I saw the look and thought Wiggy was just checking on who was around. If he actually gave Nibbles a little wave, that's just hilarious. 
Did you see the interview afterwards? I thought the tone of Wiggy's comment about Nibbly attacking on the descent came with a hint of rolled eyes and 'he's sooooooo predictable, bless him'.


----------



## PpPete (11 Jul 2012)

Please Mum! He looked at me funny!
Grow up Vincenzo!


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I sort of agree if you mean he'd be happier if he thought Wiggins had more talent and "panache".



I think Wiggo has plenty of talent and panache, but he needs an opportunity to show off that side of his racing. That's something we all want to see, I'm sure, and I think that's all Nibali wants too. 

Of course, it's up to Nibali to force his hand...

d.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I think Wiggo has plenty of talent and panache, but he needs an opportunity to show off that side of his racing. That's something we all want to see, I'm sure, and I think that's all Nibali wants too.
> 
> Of course, it's up to Nibali to force his hand...
> 
> d.


Nibali apparently said he hadn't made a big effort today but was saving it for tomorrow.
Here's part of Wiggo's attempt at psyching him out


----------



## Noodley (12 Jul 2012)

thom said:


>


 
Cav's gonna have to get rid of that belly if he's gonna have a chance at the 'lympics.


----------



## Beebo (12 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Cav's gonna have to get rid of that belly if he's gonna have a chance at the 'lympics.


 
Is that your not very interesting fact of the day?


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2012)

Can I request an interesting fact. How many times have riders been knocked off by loose dogs and spectators?


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

Just started - we get the whole stage on the box today.
Expect Nibs to go bonkers on the descents.


----------



## User482 (12 Jul 2012)

The Guardian reckons that Voeckler is the least popular rider in the peloton - what's that all about?


----------



## LosingFocus (12 Jul 2012)

No-one mentioned Fab Cancellara abandoning yet?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/cancellara-withdraws-tour-de-france-103141279.html


----------



## subaqua (12 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> No-one mentioned Fab Cancellara abandoning yet?
> 
> http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/cancellara-withdraws-tour-de-france-103141279.html


 have spent 5 mins looking for info after a tweet from ITVcycling


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

31 breakaway - this is going to be tough for Sky


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

or perhaps not - lead group now down to seven, and the gap is being reduced. Voeckler is not doing well


----------



## yello (12 Jul 2012)

User482 said:


> The Guardian reckons that Voeckler is the least popular rider in the peloton - what's that all about?


 
I've read things like that before. I think there was a display of why he might get up peoples noses yesterday - he gestures to other riders to 'do their bit' when it's something he wants. I think he's an extremely focused and confident bloke, tough as they come, and I think he expects others to take his instruction. I reckon it gets up peoples noses sometimes. I think it's an 'on bike' persona because he can come across in interviews, to me anyway, as a funny and aware bloke.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> or perhaps not - lead group now down to seven, and the gap is being reduced.


 
Group of 14 now up the road, including Scarponi. Also Koren and Basso - slightly telegraphing Nibali's intentions...

This could be good.

d.


----------



## Nuncio (12 Jul 2012)

User482 said:


> The Guardian reckons that Voeckler is the least popular rider in the peloton - what's that all about?


He has the nickname of 'Hollywood', even in his own team. Make of that what you will.
Ned Boulting said that he snarled agreement to an interview yesterday after the stage, shouted at a soigneur for a bidon, and as soon as the red light was on transformed into cheeky smiley housewife's choice, Little Tommy V.
He does liven things up though, doesn't he, with or without a nagging knee injury?


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

a couple of BMC riders going forward now including Burghardt, who was strong yesterday


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

I think if Cadel or Nibbles go away atop the Madeleine Sky might be quite happy to let them because they can get caught going up Glandon, which is 17 km or so, pretty steady until that top.
More likely an attack in the last 2 km of Glandon, after Croix de Fer or descending Mollard, laying it on the line to the finish.


----------



## User482 (12 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I've read things like that before. I think there was a display of why he might get up peoples noses yesterday - he gestures to other riders to 'do their bit' when it's something he wants. I think he's an extremely focused and confident bloke, tough as they come, and I think he expects others to take his instruction. I reckon it gets up peoples noses sometimes. I think it's an 'on bike' persona because he can come across in interviews, to me anyway, as a funny and aware bloke.


 
Ah! There's some quite entertaining speculation in the Guardian blog too.


----------



## montage (12 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I've read things like that before. I think there was a display of why he might get up peoples noses yesterday - he gestures to other riders to 'do their bit' when it's something he wants. I think he's an extremely focused and confident bloke, tough as they come, and I think he expects others to take his instruction. I reckon it gets up peoples noses sometimes. I think it's an 'on bike' persona because he can come across in interviews, to me anyway, as a funny and aware bloke.


 
When he flipped out on the Alpe de Huez (I think I was) and started smashing water bottles last year, I found him becoming easy to dislike despite the heroic efforts


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

Wiggo's got yellow paint on his bike - almost calculated to get up the noses of Cuddles and Nibbles


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

User482 said:


> Ah! There's some quite entertaining speculation in the Guardian blog too.


I thought it odd the way we was lionised for his efforts at the tour last year of course, having held yellow for many days that was obtained the day Hoogerland and Flecha were sent off piste. I think that stage was where Vinokourov came off badly and the race was shut down by the peloton. 
I can imagine that would be quite irritating but asking riders to come through is reasonable enough.


----------



## LosingFocus (12 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> Wiggo's got yellow paint on his bike - almost calculated to get up the noses of Cuddles and Nibbles


 
Think of the weight of that paint though...


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Think of the weight of that paint though...


Yellow reflects better than black, so reduced accumulation of light photons during the stage gives him a comparative advantage. It's all about marginal gains...


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Ah but the heat will warm the black frame, thus increasing flex, thus reducing fatigue......
> 
> my moneys on BMC


I guess you want white paint for stiffness and black paint for comfort then. 
The Zebra, if you like.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Did the Astana guy have squeeky brakes there ?


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Think it was those crazy frenchies with their comedy musical instruments.


oh yes, there they go again


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2012)

Sagan and Oss chasing to join Koren and Basso...


----------



## User482 (12 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Ah but the heat will warm the black frame, thus increasing flex, thus reducing fatigue......
> 
> my moneys on BMC


 
It's worse than that. The black paint absorbs more heat, warming the surrounding air, which means it is less oxygen dense and thus the rider will have to breather harder.

On the other hand, black bikes are more aerodynamic.


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

Leakygas are going for it. Basso and one other in the group of 20 or so two minutes ahead, and now Sagan and one other pushing off the front of the yellow jersey group, despite Sagan's chances of picking up big points at the sprint being next to zero. Nibbles to make a move at the bottom of the Croix de Fer?


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Think of the weight of that paint though...


you may be on to something there - apparently there are two Pinarello frames, and one of them is 140g (sheesh!) heavier than the other. I reckon it's the paint.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> Leakygas are going for it. Basso and one other in the group of 20 or so two minutes ahead, and now Sagan and one other pushing off the front of the yellow jersey group, despite Sagan's chances of picking up big points at the sprint being next to zero. Nibbles to make a move at the bottom of the Croix de Fer?


We'll see but I think Sky have too many resources still. They can just let him go, wear him out and catch him riding tempo - Glandon isn't hard until near the top.

BTW, it seems di Gregorio's malfeasance apparently involved intravenous glucose injection. And ozone - maybe he wanted to ride for Sky.


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Sagan and Oss chasing to join Koren and Basso...


They were trying to get Sagan up front to take the intermediate sprint, they've now realised it was mission impossible and have backed off.


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

whoops! Nibbles has a mechanical. Sagan and Oss have slowed down and are now back with the yellow jersey group


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

Brad's on 38x28 today


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

No guts, no glory. Here we go !


----------



## dellzeqq (12 Jul 2012)

Evans has made his move! TeJay is waiting for him up the road!


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

Jalabert hinting, more or less openly, that Knees is on the juice.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Cadel's move looks ill advised - not sure he has made enough time


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

If Mick Rogers keeps the pressure up, I think Cadel can be dropped by the top of Glandon.


----------



## LosingFocus (12 Jul 2012)

Longest advert break ever ITV4?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (12 Jul 2012)

Someone probably posted this last year, but I have only just come across this and think its great!

Enjoy:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxmelXswLW4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## accountantpete (12 Jul 2012)

Has Cadel cracked?


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Wow ! Cadel dropped and Nibali being pegged back !


----------



## accountantpete (12 Jul 2012)

Wiggins cracks

Froome ordered to slow down!!!


----------



## Nearly there (12 Jul 2012)

Froomes an animal


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Wow, Cadel 1 min down !


----------



## accountantpete (12 Jul 2012)

Froome is still being ordered to slow down


----------



## aJohnson (12 Jul 2012)

Great effort by Rolland.


----------



## accountantpete (12 Jul 2012)

Froome sprints it out for 2nd/3rd - amazing.

Cadel loses 86secs to Wiggo


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

accountantpete said:


> Froome sprints it out for 2nd/3rd - amazing.
> 
> Cadel loses 86secs to Wiggo


And Froome pinches a couple of seconds from Nibali too


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

Amazing Pinot - he could be the future champion France has been waiting for.

Fabulous image of Brad and Nibs with a hand on each other's shoulder.
What a monumental stage.


----------



## cd365 (12 Jul 2012)

User482 said:


> Ah! There's some quite entertaining speculation in the Guardian blog too.


 
You got a link?


----------



## BigGee (12 Jul 2012)

Wiggins and Froome really do look the pick of the field, are we really looking at a Brit one two, who would ever have thought it. I can remember years ago when I was just glad to have a rider in the race!

It won't be this year but they have really got to let Froome have a ride himself in a big tour soon, he does look as if he is actually the stronger one!


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2012)

Wiggins riding for Froome in the Vuelta ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Jul 2012)

That was a phenomenal ride by Wiggins and Froome, and Rolland and Pinot too. And I get the feeling that Froome could have caught Rolland if he wasn't on lieutenant duties (and indeed, reminded that he was) . Evans was as vulnerable as many suspected he might be. Really, it's only Nibali who still has a serious prospect now apart from the two Sky riders (although VdB is still the outside chance), and he just does not seem to be able to shake either British rider. I think they will all have a lot more mutual respect after today's stage too. You surely don't go through something like that together without it...


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2012)

Good move for Wiggins to bury the hatchet with Nibali too....
Slightly reminiscent of Thor & Cav chatting and clearly making up near the top of the Ventoux after their little spat a couple of years ago.


----------



## Dave Davenport (12 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wiggins riding for Froome in the Vuelta ?


 
Or at least Froome leader of a strong Sky team.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> Or at least Froome leader of a strong Sky team.



Absolutely. I don't think Wiggins will be riding the Vuelta, but a Froome, Uran, Henao combination would be fearsome indeed.


----------



## PaulB (12 Jul 2012)

Wasn't the scenery STUNNING there? What a truly beautiful place and it has the same type of weather we're currently having in England, obviously!


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wiggins riding for Froome in the Vuelta ?


I think unlikely given the Olympics. 
If Wiggins does win this then I think next year they again build the team around him to defend the title, however you could see Froome then being supported for the Vuelta afterwards. 
The way I saw it, when Froome and Wiggins caught Nibali's group, Wiggins seemed to signal something to Froome. I think he might have been let go if Wiggins had been able to hold Nibali's wheel but since he couldn't, Froome was called back. At the end, Froome was trying to pinch a handful of seconds to buffer himself to Nibali rather than pinch KOM points.


----------



## raindog (12 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And I get the feeling that Froome could have caught Rolland if he wasn't on lieutenant duties (and indeed, reminded that he was)


Not so sure about that. He cracked twice (bonked?) when leading Brad's group. How he found the strength to get back on and then sprint at the end I don't know. 

Pinot beat him at the line though. He's the youngest rider in the Tour, and almost didn't make the FDJ selection.


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Absolutely. I don't think Wiggins will be riding the Vuelta, but a Froome, Uran, Henao combination would be fearsome indeed.


Contador will be back for that won't he ? It will be very hard for Froome to back up this performance at the Olympics and make an impression on a fresh AC in Spain.
I guess Richie Porte can end up at the Vuelta since he isn't an Aussie Olympic pick.


----------



## BigGee (12 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wiggins riding for Froome in the Vuelta ?


 
Better to let him have a crack at the Giro while he is fresh, then he could go full blast for the tour the year after. Difficult to see Wiggo still being the better rider by then


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Contador will be back for that won't he ? It will be very hard for Froome to back up this performance at the Olympics and make an impression on a fresh AC in Spain.
> I guess Richie Porte can end up at the Vuelta since he isn't an Aussie Olympic pick.


 
Also true. We'll just have to see. Porte, Uran and Henao could also all be contenders in their own right...


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Also true. We'll just have to see. Porte, Uran and Henao could also all be contenders in their own right...


I wonder how quickly Sivtsov will heal too.


----------



## PpPete (12 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Contador will be back for that won't he ? It will be very hard for Froome to back up this performance at the Olympics and make an impression on a fresh AC in Spain.
> I guess Richie Porte can end up at the Vuelta since he isn't an Aussie Olympic pick.


 
AC fresh maybe - but no racing in his legs, so may not be so dominant ?
How long after the 'lympics is the Vuelta ?


----------



## thom (12 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> How long after the 'lympics is the Vuelta ?


August the 18'th


----------



## BJH (12 Jul 2012)

Loved Nibali doing the look today and loved Froome and Wiggins showing him what to do with it !


----------



## Peteaud (12 Jul 2012)

Just keeps getting better.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 Jul 2012)

Blimey Eurosport starting at 9:30 tomorrow morning. Definitely no work done then.


----------



## Chuffy (13 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> Or at least Froome leader of a strong Sky team.


Sky definitely owe Froome a leader's spot on a GT. I wonder if they'll do it for next years Tour, assuming it's got more mountains and less TT than this year?


----------



## swansonj (13 Jul 2012)

I ask this as a genuine question of people who have more experience of interpreting pro racing than me. A lot of the comments talk about Wiggins having cracked, or been dropped, or not being able to respond. But it seems to me he has a different style of climbing, where he doesn't accelerate in spurts but just turns his pace up a notch. Suppose Froome had been allowed to go rather than waiting for Wiggins. Is it actually the given that many people are assuming that he'd have taken serious time out of Wiggins - or could Wiggins just have carried on grinding up, a bit faster still, and caught him after a while when he tired? And do we know how close to his limit Wiggins was working? It seems to me nothing happened on yesterday's stage that required him to give his absolute maximum, and with the knowledge of the stages still to come, would it make sense for him to have been keeping something in reserve?


----------



## dellzeqq (13 Jul 2012)

swansonj said:


> I ask this as a genuine question of people who have more experience of interpreting pro racing than me. A lot of the comments talk about Wiggins having cracked, or been dropped, or not being able to respond. But it seems to me he has a different style of climbing, where he doesn't accelerate in spurts but just turns his pace up a notch. Suppose Froome had been allowed to go rather than waiting for Wiggins. Is it actually the given that many people are assuming that he'd have taken serious time out of Wiggins - or could Wiggins just have carried on grinding up, a bit faster still, and caught him after a while when he tired? And do we know how close to his limit Wiggins was working? It seems to me nothing happened on yesterday's stage that required him to give his absolute maximum, and with the knowledge of the stages still to come, would it make sense for him to have been keeping something in reserve?


I think you may have something there. Froome had already cracked once. On his own he might have got in to a ding-dong with Nibbles and might then have found himself being overhauled by Wiggins - or not.

The main point is that the effect of Froome's breakaway might have been to reduce Wiggins' lead without offering Froome any significant advantage in relation to Nibali

Froome may yet prove to be Kloden Mk.2. Always second. It's one thing to have the ability to break on a moderate climb, but it's another entirely to plot your way through three weeks with the intention of winning. Kloden, who was a remarkable bike rider, never looked like a winner.


----------



## PpPete (13 Jul 2012)

Impressed with Cadel.... must have been so disheartening to get dropped, but he kept on plugging away giving it everything he had left in the tank, I guess in the hope that one of top three has a problem later on.


----------



## Beebo (13 Jul 2012)

[QUOTE 1931508, member: 45"]My 7 year old has been watching the tour with me this year. Guess who he's named "bum-cheek chin"?[/quote]


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2012)

swansonj said:


> I ask this as a genuine question of people who have more experience of interpreting pro racing than me. A lot of the comments talk about Wiggins having cracked, or been dropped, or not being able to respond. But it seems to me he has a different style of climbing, where he doesn't accelerate in spurts but just turns his pace up a notch. Suppose Froome had been allowed to go rather than waiting for Wiggins. Is it actually the given that many people are assuming that he'd have taken serious time out of Wiggins - or could Wiggins just have carried on grinding up, a bit faster still, and caught him after a while when he tired? And do we know how close to his limit Wiggins was working? It seems to me nothing happened on yesterday's stage that required him to give his absolute maximum, and with the knowledge of the stages still to come, would it make sense for him to have been keeping something in reserve?


 
Maybe: Wiggins looked at the limit though. His face is rarely a grimace and when it is I suspect he's at the limit and it was set in a grimace a few times yesterday. Who knows though. We'll see.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

Who knows what would have happened if Froome had been allowed to go? He might well have caught Rolland and won the stage. 

But the team were never going to allow anything to happen that could have risked Nibali taking potentially vital seconds off Wiggo with more big mountain stages to come. It looked like a hot-headed moment and the DS soon reminded him of team orders. 

Another argument in favour of banning radios?

d.


----------



## dellzeqq (13 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Impressed with Cadel.... must have been so disheartening to get dropped, but he kept on plugging away giving it everything he had left in the tank, I guess in the hope that one of top three has a problem later on.


absolutely. And impressed with van Garderen's commitment to the team when he clearly has his own ambitions


----------



## PpPete (13 Jul 2012)

Quite a contrast with FS who just about sat up and drifted along until TJ and Cadel came past and he had a wheel to follow.


----------



## beastie (13 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> absolutely. And impressed with van Garderen's commitment to the team when he clearly has his own ambitions



Think TVG will be a GC leader next year. He looks a class act.


----------



## dellzeqq (13 Jul 2012)

the other question is this. Let's assume that Froome could have won the Vuelta if Brailsford had arranged things differently. He had a choice then - stay with Sky or ply his trade elsewhere -and a lot of teams would have signed him up. He stayed with Sky, which is a perfectly honourable thing. If he doesn't get the deal he's looking for, he can move next year, and, who knows, win a GT with his new team.

Wiggins' 'selective hearing' brings Hinault to mind. It takes a certain kind of ruthlessness to be the top rider in a talented team, and maybe Wiggins ruthlessness offers Froome a lesson. Perhaps a call to Greg Lemond might be in order.


----------



## iLB (13 Jul 2012)

Jonathan Vaughters on Twitter - *Jonathan Vaughters* ‏@*Vaughters*
Froome had every opportunity to go be leader of many a team after Vuelta. He turned it down. It was his choice to to stay with Brad at Sky.

Basically is saying he wanted Froome at Garmin and other teams wanted the same,


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

I don't think Barry Wiggins has explosive power. Barnaby Wiggins is more of a high cadence engine, churning out a steady power output. I think this makes Bobo Wiggins susceptible to attack over a short space and he either needs someone like Froome to chase any attack or/and needs a few hundred metres to up the output and close the gap.

Wiggins said re the Froome break yesterday that he (Wiggo) had just done a 2km stint on the front of the group and was allowing the lactate to go. Whether he could have responded (without going into the red) we'll never know I guess.



> "At that moment I was just concentrating on my effort and keeping in contact because I'd been riding [at the front] for a two and a half [or] two kilometres before that so we came down on that dip and I just had to clear the lactate," Wiggins said at the finish.


 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-relieved-after-la-toussuire-mountain-finish


----------



## martint235 (13 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Another argument in favour of banning radios?
> 
> d.


 I think even without radios the message would have been sent through. It's a shame we could have had a Froome v TVG showdown as both appeared stronger than their respective leaders.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Maybe: Wiggins looked at the limit though. His face is rarely a grimace and when it is I suspect he's at the limit and it was set in a grimace a few times yesterday. Who knows though. We'll see.


 
One thing that became apparent yesterday was how much they miss Siutsou. EBH and Rogers both had to do almighty turns on the front, Porte buried himself on the final climb, Froome almost cracked at one point and even Brad had to stick his nose in the wind for a spell, which I'm sure wasn't part of the gameplan.

Today will be a relatively easy stage for them, so they'll get the chance to recover a bit, but they've got two monster stages on successive days in the Pyrenees next week to look forward to.

I'm not writing Cadel off just yet.

d.


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

I think the comparison to Indurain might be more apt, he sacrificed himself for Delgado in 90 (and assumed leadership in 91 when Lemond faltered).
He was 27 at the time. I dunno if there is a hint of a supposed agreement between Froome and Wiggins to mirror the Hinault-Lemond one.
It makes a whole lot of sense for Froome to stay at Sky. Wiggins is 32. If he wins this TdF, he probably won't win another due to harder parcours or harder competition (Schlecks and Contador). Froome is a key part of the Sky future. He has learned a lot but I think is still learning and has the very best support at Sky and benefits from Brad too. I don't think he could find a better opportunity at another team right now.


----------



## montage (13 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I wonder how quickly Sivtsov will heal too.


 

Is it Siutsou or Sivtsov??

I see both regularly


----------



## LosingFocus (13 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> Is it Siutsou or Sivtsov??
> 
> I see both regularly


 
*Сіўцоў  *


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> Is it Siutsou or Sivtsov??
> 
> I see both regularly


Yes, it's one of them. We should refer to him also as Sivtsou and Siutsov too to cover all possibilities.


----------



## Pottsy (13 Jul 2012)

But not Shi Tzu as that's a small Chinese dog.


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

Pottsy said:


> But not Shi Tzu as that's a small Chinese dog.


I thought it was a Zoo with no animals...

Oh, it seems Froome is at the back of the peloton at the moment, trying to hang on going over the first climb.


----------



## accountantpete (13 Jul 2012)

Long stage today - Sky keeping a really brisk tempo at front of Peloton. Could be a monster day.


----------



## LosingFocus (13 Jul 2012)

Nasty bit of road rash right there...


----------



## perplexed (13 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Yes, it's one of them. We should refer to him also as Sivtsou and Siutsov too to cover all possibilities.


 
Or, like people who are involved with that footbally type thing, call him Siutsy...


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

Just call him Kosta.


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

Moncoutié crashed and taken to hospital. Hope he's OK - one of the good guys imo.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Moncoutié crashed and taken to hospital. Hope he's OK - one of the good guys imo.


 
Yeah, I wish him the best, it looked horrible.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

No broken bones, apparently, but still not nice. 

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2012)

Wiggins is attacking... so much for steady!


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

Was that to show who's boss after yesterday?


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

Sagan is so good going downhill


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

Is a "Natural Break" a pee stop ? (ITV commentary)


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

yep


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2012)

Well, now they've got Sagan back, it's all turned into a bit of a relaxing day out for everyone...


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, now they've got Sagan back, it's all turned into a bit of a relaxing day out for everyone...


Eisel and Cav might catch up the peloton !


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Eisel and Cav might catch up the peloton !


 
They already have, apparently...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 Jul 2012)

So who's going to win from the break today? We have Gautier, Millar, Peraud, Martinez, Kiserlovski. My bet is that, if they are still together after the final climb, Millar will try to escape about 3-5k from the finish, get caught and then Gautier will take the third stage for Europcar... but I have a feeling Martinez and Kiserlovski will both attack on that climb.


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> They already have, apparently...


Just after I posted - the pelopton/gruppetto gap was coming down for a while. Funny the way Eisel went straight to the front and upped the pace of the peloton.


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

My money's on Millar.

They've just mentioned tomorrow's stage and the climb up the Mont St Clair. Jalabert said anyone who's never ridden up it and thinks it's going to be easy, is in for a big shock.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> So who's going to win from the break today? We have Gautier, Millar, Peraud, Martinez, Kiserlovski. My bet is that, if they are still together after the final climb, Millar will try to escape about 3-5k from the finish, get caught and then Gautier will take the third stage for Europcar... but I have a feeling Martinez and Kiserlovski will both attack on that climb.


 
If Millar does win, that would be four British* stage winners in a single Tour. Four! Who ever imagined that would even be possible?

d.


*Yes, I know. Leave it, OK?


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> They've just mentioned tomorrow's stage and the climb up the Mont St Clair. Jalabert said *anyone who's never ridden up it* and thinks it's going to be easy, is in for a big shock.


 
That'll be everyone apart from Sky, then. #marginalgains

d.


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

What'cha reckon? Sky doing mates rates for Millar?

I'd love to see him win, and I agree he'll probably attack early, but I can't see him taking the stage.

I think Wiggos break was nought more than a show of strength. Had the commentators bemused anyway. Maybe he just fancied stretching his legs! Dunno. I didn't see what happened, the cameras cut back to the fate accompli.


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Martinez can climb so he might get it, but I hope it's Millar


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

Millar was just too canny! And too strong.


----------



## accountantpete (13 Jul 2012)

Millar!!!!!


----------



## YahudaMoon (13 Jul 2012)

Yes. Millar !

Fantastic .


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

told ya


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Great win!


----------



## Pottsy (13 Jul 2012)

Yay! I'm very chuffed for him.


----------



## ohnovino (13 Jul 2012)

Ah bless him, he must have felt like he was missing out as his countrymen kept winning. Chapeau!


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

Reckon Goss is going to be in trouble there...

...wouldn't be surprised if he gets DQed for that sprint, cut right across Sagan


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2012)

Superb finish by Millar.

By the way, can anyone lipread Slovakian? Not that it's really necessary - I think I got the gist of what he was saying.

d.


----------



## YahudaMoon (13 Jul 2012)

Whats with Millars arm ? Track lines, EPO ?


----------



## thom (13 Jul 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> Whats with Millars arm ? Track lines, EPO ?


When he crashed a few stages ago, bikes piled into him - the marks come from a chainring...


----------



## YahudaMoon (13 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> When he crashed a few stages ago, bikes piled into him - the marks come from a chainring...


 
Looks like I missed some of the best British cycling. I remember seeing Brad about 7 years ago at Manchester track. Never had him down as a long distance French tour contender, and now he's in yellow

I've got £2 on him at the bookies to win it !


----------



## PpPete (13 Jul 2012)

Olympic RR team composed almost entirely of TdF stage winners !
How much better does it get?


----------



## YahudaMoon (13 Jul 2012)

Brads looking more like one of them lions every day. I wish he'd shave them mutton chops off


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

Goss declassified. Thought he would be.


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

Wiggins says he was burnt by someone with a flare on the finish straight. You could see the mark o,n his leg but it got his arm too. He's obviously ok but it still sounds potentially nasty


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

Both Millar and Brad have mentioned that it's 45 years to the day that Simpson died.


----------



## ohnovino (13 Jul 2012)

Right then, Steve Cummings, no pressure but you're sort of letting the country down now


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

yebbut, Millar is Scottish (or is it Maltese?), Froome is Kenyan, Wiggins is Belgian (or is it Australian) and Cavendish is from the Isle of Man.


----------



## dellzeqq (13 Jul 2012)

oh, yes, Wiggins' accent is pure Belgian...............


----------



## yello (13 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> oh, yes, Wiggins' accent is pure Belgian...............


 
Ostender?


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Millars from Hong Kong i think.


He was born in Malta, lived his childhood in Scotland, then England and then moved to Hong Kong to live with his father. He's not "from" anywhere really.


----------



## Ajay (13 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> oh, yes, Wiggins' accent is pure Belgian...............


.....and I've seen him at a cafe stop putting mayonnaise on his waffles


----------



## dellzeqq (13 Jul 2012)

just wait till he starts solving country house murders







note, if you will, the sideburns........


----------



## Keith Oates (13 Jul 2012)

I'm happy for Millar, he's missed out on a few wins in the past so he will be well pleased with todays result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

I apologise for not having a not-very-intereresting fact of the day yesterday, look upon it as my day sitting in the peloton.

But for today, I thought I would concentrate on the makes of bikes being ridden at the Tour:
Specialized - Astana, Omega Pharma
BMC - BMC (no surprises)
Look - Credit Agricole
Colnago - Europcar
Orbea - Euskatel-Euskadi
Lapierre - FDJ
Planet X - Saxo Bank
Cervelo - Garmin Sharp
Canyon - Katusha
Wilier - Lampre
Cannondale - Liquigas
Ridley - Lotto
Pinarello - Movistar, Sky
Scott - Greenedge
Giant - Rabobank
Trek - RadioShak
Time - Saur Sojasun
Bianchi - Vacansoleil


----------



## steve broughton (13 Jul 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> Brads looking more like one of them lions every day. I wish he'd shave them mutton chops off


 
Nope top blokes on 2 wheels have to have mutton chops


----------



## BJH (13 Jul 2012)

Which team did Wolverine ride for?


----------



## BJH (13 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> yebbut, Millar is Scottish (or is it Maltese?), Froome is Kenyan, Wiggins is Belgian (or is it Australian) and Cavendish is from the Isle of Man.



Yes we are having them all seeing as how they are winners. 

I hear that Bertie Contacor was named after Prince Albert because his Dad once worked as a cook in Benidorm and served some British tourists With steak and if it hadn't been for the unfortunate growth hormone it contained from the cattle growth programme we would have had him too!


----------



## Russell Allen (13 Jul 2012)

David Millar winning today made me choke up a bit, I was watching the ITV coverage at my desk listening on headphones in our "quiet" office, when he crossed the line I jumped up punched the air and shouted "yeeeeeeeeeesssss"................ I got some rather startled looks. Millar has long been one my favorite "British" riders, he may have his flaws but I have always found him a fascinating charismatic and intelligent character. I think this is richly deserved, no greater advert for the anti doping message.

Russell


----------



## Peteaud (13 Jul 2012)

Wiggins was born in Ghent


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Millar's post-race interview with "Yellow Jumper" Ned was good.


----------



## Baggy (13 Jul 2012)

Yay Millar! At last! 
His riding style is sooo fluid, lovely stuff to watch.


Noodley said:


> Millar's post-race interview with "Yellow Jumper" Ned was good.


Much as I'm enjoying Wiggy being in the pullover jaune it was nice to have a Millar interview at last. You just like him 'cos he's majestically tall, and Scottish.


Noodley said:


> But for today, I thought I would concentrate on the makes of bikes being ridden at the Tour:


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (13 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I apologise for not having a not-very-intereresting fact of the day yesterday, look upon it as my day sitting in the peloton.
> 
> But for today, I thought I would concentrate on the makes of bikes being ridden at the Tour:
> Specialized - Astana, Omega Pharma
> ...



Cough COUGH!! ........Kuota, being ridden by a certain French team in blue brown and white who had a rider come second today.... 

Need a reminder?: http://www.cyclisme.ag2rlamondiale.fr/english/shop/race-bikes.asp


----------



## tigger (13 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Planet X - Saxo Bank


 
Really???


----------



## Chuffy (13 Jul 2012)

tigger said:


> Really???


Official Tour guide says the lanky Scots git is having a senior moment.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (13 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Official Tour guide says the lanky Scots git is having a senior moment.



Noodley or David Millar?


----------



## Speicher (13 Jul 2012)

Someone told David Harman and his team the details about the type of loco seen on the coverage in Eurospot today. Was that you who told them, MDB?


----------



## PpPete (13 Jul 2012)

Lanky ?
Ye'll be his friend for life !


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


> You are sooo fluid, lovely stuff to watch...You are so majestically tall, and Scottish.


 
Why thank you baggy my dear.


----------



## just jim (13 Jul 2012)

Someone waved a smoke flare at Wiggins today, resulting in 3rd degree sideburns.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (13 Jul 2012)

Best day of the Tour so far, chuffed to bits for @millarmind and the BBC now has him officially British. Nice to see cyclingnews keep him as a Scot. It's all looking good for the olympic thingy.


----------



## Baggy (13 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Why thank you baggy my dear.


 You're welcome. Please may I have your autograph?


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


> You're welcome. Please may I have your autograph?


 
I am in the Southern half of the country at the end of this month, please feel free to jon the queue of adoring females wishing to have their bossoms signed. 

I shall, obviously, prioritise your bossoms...


----------



## Chuffy (13 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I am in the Southern half of the country at the end of this month, please feel free to jon the queue of adoring females wishing to have their bossoms signed.
> 
> I shall, obviously, prioritise your bossoms...


Please sign my bosoms too.


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Please sign my bosoms too.


 
I shall bring my largest pen.


----------



## Chuffy (13 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I shall bring my largest pen.


Paint roller.


----------



## Chuffy (13 Jul 2012)

I declare this thread officially jacked. Bring on tomorrows stage!


----------



## Noodley (13 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> I declare this thread officially jacked. Bring on the Planet X bike!


 
Now you are just being silly...


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

Interesting insight into the Froome Wiggins tension here. Froome's girlfriend claims he executed a rope a dope move going up to La Toussuire. I'm surprised by the resentment of Wiggo (well of Cath Wiggins' comments, who subsequently killed her twitter account...) so perhaps there is a bit more Hinault-Lemond than Indurain-Delgado to the situation.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2012)

Soap Opera Tour.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Soap Opera Tour.


Indeed - Sean Yates has first dibs on the shifty cockny part :
http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/sean-yates-on-wiggins-and-froome-23n6nic3RtRin


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2012)

Whatever the soap operas behind the racing...I am loving the Tour, loving the Brit victories, loving Wiggins...and amazed that on Bastillle day the stage route is dull.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Whatever the soap operas behind the racing...I am loving the Tour, loving the Brit victories, loving Wiggins...and amazed that on Bastillle day the stage route is dull.


There's a cheeky 20% section at Mt St Clair, 20km from the end to liven things up - Chavanel, Gilbert or Sagan ?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

Jeremy Roy


----------



## johnr (14 Jul 2012)

I think Sky will want to help Cav get rid of a bit of that excess weight by dragging him up the hill and kicking his b@m all the way to the line


----------



## PaulSB (14 Jul 2012)

Sorry if this has been asked already but I haven't been able to follow the thread. 

What's the position if Wiggins/Froome go into the final day or two 1st and 2nd and become unassailable at some point, even in the last few kilometres. 

Does Froome let Wiggins win or would Sky simply let their men battle it out?


----------



## Steve H (14 Jul 2012)

Back to a flat day and hopefully a bunch sprint, unless of course the wind along the coast splits the peloton.

Cav's been the water-boy for a few stages now, so I'm thinking he'll be absolutely itching to kick those legs today. Sky will want Wiggo up front to avoid being caught behind in a peloton split, so I think Cav will get dragged to within 1km of the line. He then just has to figure out who to follow to the line.

My money is on a Cav, Griepel one-two today.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Back to a flat day and hopefully a bunch sprint,


It might not be with Mont St Clair near the end - watch out for it. I very much doubt Cav or Greipel will get over it with the leaders. I'm hoping the first guys over the top will be able to form a group and get all the way to the Cap.

And please watch out for the helicopter shots of them going through Séte with it's canals and boats.

Still not decided where I'll be yet, but I'll be wearing a flourescent badger suit with Y fronts over the top.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Sean Yates doesn't sound convinced does he? I hear what he's saying, and respect the 'play your crards' line (he's right of course) but I don't hear ringing endorsement for Wiggins. I get the impression he feels Froome is the 'better' rider (whatever his definition of that might be).


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

I've never seen a fluorescent badger. Not sure whether that'll make raindog easy to spot or not.


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-intersteing fact: There have been 31 French winners of a stage on Bastille Day since the first tour in 1903...and there have been 2 British winners on Bastille Day: Cav in 2009 and Barry Hoban in 1967. There have also been 16 rest days on Bastille Day.


----------



## Peteaud (14 Jul 2012)

Froome v wiggins for the TDF.

Now if you printed that a few years ago you would be locked up in the nuthouse.

2 Brits could be 1st and 2nd in the TDF


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-intersteing fact:


 
I thought it was going to be that Bradley Wiggins was born in Ghent.


----------



## dellzeqq (14 Jul 2012)

I'm looking forward to this - Susie and I went north from Agde through Sete and Palavas-les-Flots last year, and it was one of the few parts of the French portion of our ride that was enjoyable. We didn't go to Cap d'Agde, which is not the kind of town that you google at work........


----------



## lejogger (14 Jul 2012)

PaulSB said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already but I haven't been able to follow the thread.
> 
> What's the position if Wiggins/Froome go into the final day or two 1st and 2nd and become unassailable at some point, even in the last few kilometres.
> 
> Does Froome let Wiggins win or would Sky simply let their men battle it out?


It's not really that simple. The last day of competitive GC racing is an individual time trial, so no matter how things are lying at that point, both Wiggins and Froome should be going all out. 
We know that although close, Wiggins has the slight edge in the TT, but it could be very interesting if for example Froome was sitting in yellow by 20 seconds over Brad, going out last and getting the time checks, to see what orders came over the race radio in the final km. 
Do we think it's a possibility that should this be the case and Brad was virtual yellow, Froome might be asked to ease up and slot into second?

Personally I'd like to see both men fight it out over the TT and the best man wins... However it's a moot point at the minute until we know the standings on the start ramp


----------



## lejogger (14 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Sean Yates doesn't sound convinced does he? I hear what he's saying, and respect the 'play your crards' line (he's right of course) but I don't hear ringing endorsement for Wiggins. I get the impression he feels Froome is the 'better' rider (whatever his definition of that might be).


I get the impression that Sean Yates should leave the media stuff to Dave, or maybe the team bike washer.


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2012)

lejogger said:


> It's not really that simple. The last day of competitive GC racing is an individual time trial, so no matter how things are lying at that point, both Wiggins and Froome should be going all out.
> We know that although close, Wiggins has the slight edge in the TT, but it could be very interesting if for example Froome was sitting in yellow by 20 seconds over Brad, going out last and getting the time checks, to see what orders came over the race radio in the final km.
> _*Do we think it's a possibility that should this be the case and Brad was virtual yellow, Froome might be asked to ease up and slot into second?*_
> 
> Personally I'd like to see both men fight it out over the TT and the best man wins... However it's a moot point at the minute until we know the standings on the start ramp


Not a prayer.

The team would not issue that sort of order and if they did Froome's reply would make the Terry/Ferdinand spat seem very small beer.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

lejogger said:


> I get the impression that Sean Yates should leave the media stuff to Dave, or maybe the team bike washer.


Sean isn't very articulate at the best of times, but he's the DS and has to speak with the press. End of.

He does a quick interview every day in French through the car window sometime during the stage - he manages pretty well.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2012)

Nice wee article by the other Millar here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/ro...-doping-speculation-and-froomes-climbing-legs


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Not a prayer.
> 
> The team would not issue that sort of order and if they did Froome's reply would make the Terry/Ferdinand spat seem very small beer.


 
Yes, I think if it comes down to that situation then sky would be happy with any one of them winning overall, the goal seemed to be get a rider in yellow into Paris, not in particularly only wiggins.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Nice wee article by the other Millar here
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/ro...-doping-speculation-and-froomes-climbing-legs


cheers - always interested in seeing what Robert's got to say


----------



## User169 (14 Jul 2012)

Belgian TV's just been having a giggle at the Sky "WAG-war"


----------



## Steve H (14 Jul 2012)

I'm struggling to see the Wiggins vs Froome thing as a real issue. I think they are both great riders and fantastic to have on the Sky team together. Wiggins is clearly in the lead and there is still a large element of risk ahead as they have many stages to get through before the race is over.

In the choice of:
1) have the whole Sky team protect the Sky lead by riding for Wiggins who is strong, has a good lead, and is one of the very best time triallers
Or
2) let Froome go off free because he has a chance of doing better in one or two stages, but at the risk of Wiggins losing some time on these stages

Personally I think it's a no-brainer decision at this stage. The whole team ride for Brad. In the final time trial where Froome has the opportunity to ride his heart out with no risk to Wiggins, again it is a no-brainer - he should, and he will be allowed to ride full pelt.

What Froome will be creating for himself, is a lot of respect. This will pay him dividends in the near future. There are going to be many races in the near to medium future where his team will ride for him.


----------



## lejogger (14 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Not a prayer.
> 
> The team would not issue that sort of order and if they did Froome's reply would make the Terry/Ferdinand spat seem very small beer.


I do completely agree with you, but Froome has consistently stated that his job is to get Wiggo to Paris in yellow and he is supporting that, not chasing yellow himself.


----------



## Rob500 (14 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I'll be wearing a flourescent badger suit with Y fronts over the top.


 
You could at least make an effort RD. Put something on that you don't normally wear.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Not a prayer.
> 
> The team would not issue that sort of order and if they did Froome's reply would make the Terry/Ferdinand spat seem very small beer.



Totally agree with this. Both men will be riding to win on the final time trial, no team orders. 

And in that situation, Wiggo will win every time. 

d.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Jeremy Roy



Bouet, Dumoulin, Engoulvent, Ladagnous and Pineau in the break but not the Frenchman I plumped for... Pah!

I fancied FdJ for today, so I'll switch my allegiance to Ladagnous, though Dumoulin or Pineau probably favourite if the break stays away...

d.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Totally agree with this. Both men will be riding to win on the final time trial, no team orders.
> 
> And in that situation, Wiggo will win every time.
> 
> d.


Apart from last year's Vuelta...
Or if he falls off his bike or punctures or Froome's girlfriend assaults Wiggo with a yellow flare...


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Apart from last year's Vuelta...



I was thinking of the overall reckoning Froome won't beat Wiggo by enough to overhaul him in GC - but very good point, that had slipped my mind. 



> Or if he falls off his bike or punctures or Froome's girlfriend assaults Wiggo with a yellow flare...





d.


----------



## lejogger (14 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Bouet, Dumoulin, Engoulvent, Ladagnous and Pineau in the break but not the Frenchman I plumped for... Pah!
> 
> I fancied FdJ for today, so I'll switch my allegiance to Ladagnous, though Dumoulin or Pineau probably favourite if the break stays away...
> 
> d.


Roy has been quiet after his heroics last year... probably my favourite rider of TDF 2011 but barely a sniff at anything this time around.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> I'm struggling to see the Wiggins vs Froome thing as a real issue.


 
It's not. It's only the media who want it to be more 'exciting', and a few fans who don't get how teams work these days - Sean Yates was entirely right about this, and he might not always be the most smoothly articulate guy, but he was telling it exactly how it is. Froome will undoubtedly be the leader in a GT before long, but not this one. The only circumstance under which this would happen in the Tour this year is if Wiggins crashes out or cracks so badly that he has no realistic chance of winning. End of conversation.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

lejogger said:


> Roy has been quiet after his heroics last year... probably my favourite rider of TDF 2011 but barely a sniff at anything this time around.



Yeah, that's partly why I thought he might fancy it today. Oh well. He'll be back next year. 

Looks like the break is going to get caught anyway. So, Sagan it is, then...

d.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Hmmmm. French bloke (Kern) drafts behind the referee's car after a mechanical and all is good. Sagan drafts behind his team car after a mechanical and the _same referee_ gives the Liquigas driver an almighty bollocking. No favouritism there, oh no....


----------



## Steve H (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Hmmmm. French bloke (Kern) drafts behind the referee's car after a mechanical and all is good. Sagan drafts behind his team car after a mechanical and the _same referee_ gives the Liquigas driver an almighty bollocking. No favouritism there, oh no....


Sagan was drafting his team car that was overtaking lots of other cars.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> Sagan was drafting his team car that was overtaking lots of other cars.


Just a driving sanction then? Fair enough.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Hope everyone's watching. I know every village and every bump in the road here.
Watch out - Séte coming up..........


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Bloody hell, how steep is this climb?


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Bloody hell, how steep is this climb?


I tried to tell everyone but did you listen? Did you listen?


----------



## Steve H (14 Jul 2012)

Could someone ask them to wait up a bit. Cav got dropped on that climb and he needs a chance to catch up. ;-)


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

cripes, that was some climb


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> There's a cheeky 20% section at Mt St Clair, 20km from the end to liven things up - Chavanel, Gilbert or Sagan ?


Looks like Sky are trying to slow it up now but my money's on Sagan if Cav doesn't get back on.
I think the average was about 10.6 %.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Vino's going to win in the nudist colony
Come on Vino!!


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Urgh. Not Vino. Come on Lotto!


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

So we have Sagan, Griepel, EBH?


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Is Wiggins staying out of the way or riding as part of a train???


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Wiggy for a seated sprint?!


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

How wide is Greipel's mouth? I bet he can eat a pizza without folding it.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Top stuff! Good win for Griepel but what a guy Wiggins! Leading out EBH!


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Urgh. Not Vino. Come on Lotto!


since this
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peace-declared-after-greipel-sends-threatening-sms-to-boeckmans
I say bollocks to Lotto


----------



## Nearly there (14 Jul 2012)

Anyone one else think cav will call it a day soon and go prepare for t'lympics?


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> since this
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peace-declared-after-greipel-sends-threatening-sms-to-boeckmans
> I say bollocks to Lotto


Hadn't seen that, but anyway. Anyone but Vino!


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

No! He'll stay for Paris, where hopefully we'll see Wiggo do what he did for EBH today. 

d.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> No! He'll stay for Paris, where hopefully we'll see Wiggo do what he did for EBH today.
> 
> d.


Yup. The Tour is going to be the best prep for the Olympics and he'll want a win on the Champs. Besides, assuming Wiggy wins, wouldn't you want to cross the line with the first ever British winner?


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Seeing the yellow jersey lead out the sprint was something else wasn't it?


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Seeing the yellow jersey lead out the sprint was something else wasn't it?


I actually wondered if he was having a dig himself, looked like Eddy B was hanging off the back of Wiggy's wheel there.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Cav has been voted (by a jury including Hinault) the best ever sprinter of the TdF and will be interviewed post race on Fr television, so don't miss it.
(Well, that is, if you think Cav is cool  )


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Wiggins was really impressive up that climb. Evans went and had got some distance but Wiggins closed it down on his own and looked pretty darned comfortable afterwards. Rogers and Froome came back later. He hasn't got Evans' ability to accelerate but he's more than a match otherwise. I'm probably more impressed with him these last few days than I have been before. He's a clever rider I reckon.


----------



## dragon72 (14 Jul 2012)

With Box Hill in mind, I'm getting worried about Cav's seeming inability to get over lumps. With the way he's been climbing of late, it seems incredible now that he actually won MSR a few years back.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

In fairness, that was some lump today! I'm sure Cavendish and TeamGB know what needs to be done.


----------



## ianrauk (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> How wide is Greipel's mouth? I bet he can eat a pizza without folding it.


 

Bit post box looking aint he?


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

dragon72 said:


> With Box Hill in mind, I'm getting worried about Cav's seeming inability to get over lumps.


That wasn't "a lump" - in a couple of places it's 20%. Box Hill is flat by comparison - Cav will be fine.


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2012)

dragon72 said:


> With Box Hill in mind, I'm getting worried about Cav's seeming inability to get over lumps. With the way he's been climbing of late, it seems incredible now that he actually won MSR a few years back.


Cav has accepted his role as a domestique this year and is putting a good shift in during the early part of the stages. The Olympics will be different, he'll be the protected rider.


----------



## Ajay (14 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Hope everyone's watching. I know every village and every bump in the road here.
> Watch out - Séte coming up..........


Me too, we've a house in Fabregues, sadly not down there today though. Great to see Mt St Clair causing some pain, nice to know its not just me that's grovelled on it!


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Bit post box looking aint he?


Back when I was a postie I'd have very grateful if more post-boxes were that wide.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Ajay said:


> Me too, we've a house in Fabregues, sadly not down there today though. Great to see Mt St Clair causing some pain, nice to know its not just me that's grovelled on it!


whaaaa? Next time you're down, PM me and we'll have a ride together, OK?


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

Absolutely brilliant interviews with Cavendish and Wiggins. Cavendish because he was presented with the trophy that raindog mentioned upstream. Cavendish almost in tears again! He's such a shy bloke I reckon, easily embarrassed and easily moved. And Wiggins comes across as really a likeable, down to earth bloke.... and himself. He's relaxed and no rent-a-quote. Both are passionate about cycling and it shows. They make quite an impression on French viewers, I'm sure.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)




----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Absolutely brilliant interviews with Cavendish and Wiggins. Cavendish because he was presented with the trophy that raindog mentioned upstream. Cavendish almost in tears again! He's such a shy bloke I reckon, easily embarrassed and easily moved. And Wiggins comes across as really a likeable, down to earth bloke.... and himself. He's relaxed and no rent-a-quote. Both are passionate about cycling and it shows. They make quite an impression on French viewers, I'm sure.


glad you said that yello. As the days of this Tour go by, Brad get's bigger and bigger for me. Even Jalabert was almost grovelling in front of them, which was very satisfying.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Besides, assuming Wiggy wins, wouldn't you want to cross the line with the first ever British winner?



Yup, and in the rainbow stripes too. 

d.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yup, and in the rainbow stripes too.
> 
> d.


And there's a few bottles he's going to fetch yet.


----------



## yello (14 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> As the days of this Tour go by, Brad get's bigger and bigger for me.


 
Me too. He's really growing into the role too. I loved his comment about accepting what goes with his dream job. It really is difficult to not like him.



> Even Jalabert was almost grovelling in front of them, which was very satisfying.


 
Yes, I remember your comments about Jaja and now listen out for what he says and watch the body language etc. It was almost sticking in his throat to compliment Wiggins particularly.

He's the manager of the French team for the Olympics isn't he? Praps he feels he's on a hiding to nothing!


----------



## dragon72 (14 Jul 2012)

I may have missed something here, but have they given up on the yellow helmets lark for the leading team?


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

dragon72 said:


> I may have missed something here, but have they given up on the yellow helmets lark for the leading team?


Radioschleck are the leading team and they didn't bring any yellow helmets with them. They've got yellow race numbers instead. Given that teams can easily lay hands on yellow kit, up to and including whole bikes, when they get the MJ I don't know why ASO aren't ordering Shack to get on the phone to their kit sponsor...


----------



## Hip Priest (14 Jul 2012)

The yellow helmet thing isn't mandatory, as I understand it.

RS probably saw Sky looking like idiots in theirs and thought better of it!


----------



## Hip Priest (14 Jul 2012)

I'm well impressed with Cavendish. He is often described as arrogant, but an arrogant man would spit his dummy out if asked to collect drinks bottles in the rainbow jersey. He is doing a job for the team, and no doubt Wiggins will return the favour in a few weeks.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (14 Jul 2012)

Hip Priest said:


> I'm well impressed with Cavendish. He is often described as arrogant, but an arrogant man would spit his dummy out if asked to collect drinks bottles in the rainbow jersey. He is doing a job for the team, and no doubt Wiggins will return the favour in a few weeks.


or sooner, if the race has been won. wiggins will lead team sky onto the champs elysee and then help cav to a win in the sprint. i get the impression that winning that stage for a third year running would be cavendish's dream scenario…


----------



## Hip Priest (14 Jul 2012)

alecstilleyedye said:


> or sooner, if the race has been won. wiggins will lead team sky onto the champs elysee and then help cav to a win in the sprint. i get the impression that winning that stage for a third year running would be cavendish's dream scenario…


 
True!

Wiggins in yellow, and Cav taking the stage in the rainbow bands. It'd be truly awesome for British cycling.


----------



## raindog (14 Jul 2012)

Hip Priest said:


> I'm well impressed with Cavendish. He is often described as arrogant, but an arrogant man would spit his dummy out if asked to collect drinks bottles in the rainbow jersey.


I don't think anyone "asks" him to do it. He just does it.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

alecstilleyedye said:


> or sooner, if the race has been won. wiggins will lead team sky onto the champs elysee and then help cav to a win in the sprint. i get the impression that winning that stage for a third year running would be cavendish's dream scenario…


Ahem, fourth year running


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


> You're welcome. Please may I have your autograph?



Why? He can't even acknowledge his 'facts' as are a bit out as it were.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2012)

Speicher said:


> Someone told David Harman and his team the details about the type of loco seen on the coverage in Eurospot today. Was that you who told them, MDB?




Sorry it wasn't me, I must have missed that bit. What was it?


----------



## Baggy (14 Jul 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Why? He can't even acknowledge his 'facts' as are a bit out as it were.


But his facts are interesting, non?


Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-intersteing fact: There have been 31 French winners of a stage on Bastille Day since the first tour in 1903...and there have been 2 British winners on Bastille Day: Cav in 2009 and Barry Hoban in 1967. There have also been 16 rest days on Bastille Day.


Ah. Non.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2012)

Baggy said:


> But his facts are interesting, non?
> 
> Ah. Non.



Oh you two get a room!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (14 Jul 2012)

What did the itv commentators mean by 'contractually obligated Bastille break for the sponsors' today?


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2012)

French riders, French teams, French race, French national holiday...


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What did the itv commentators mean by 'contractually obligated Bastille break for the sponsors' today?


Because Bastille Day is a hugely significant national holiday in France, therefore the French riders, on French teams, will be trying to get in a break. Being in break = lots of tv coverage. Winning on Bastille Day = national hero.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Imagine an American (Tyler Farrar last year I think) winning on 4th of July.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Apparently Luis-Leon Sanchez was annoyed that Wiggy chased him down and led out EBH. Idiot.


----------



## Alun (14 Jul 2012)

Hip Priest said:


> The yellow helmet thing isn't mandatory, as I understand it.
> 
> RS probably saw Sky looking like idiots in theirs and thought better of it!


I think it's because they are short staffed, one of their directeurs sportif hasn't turned up at the tour.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

So very dry....


----------



## Crankarm (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Imagine an American (Tyler Farrar last year I think) winning on 4th of July.


 
Lucky the race isn't held in April .


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2012)

Uncle Mort said:


> I'd be very fat if I lived in Sète!


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

So tomorrow ought to look pretty spectacular and this Mur de Peguere will likely liven things up. Given it is 40kn from the end it probably won't end up giving a GC changing opportunity but it might give another chance to compare Froome & Wiggins relative climbing ability. Could be another chance for Voeckler or similar breakaway protagonist.


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> So tomorrow ought to look pretty spectacular and this Mur de Peguere will likely liven things up. Given it is 40kn from the end it probably won't end up giving a GC changing opportunity but it might give another chance to compare Froome & Wiggins relative climbing ability. Could be another chance for Voeckler or similar breakaway protagonist.


Doesn't Peguere have some *really* nasty pitches? Could be an Evans attack, not that it's worth his while... Froome will just tag along, don't get over excited.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (14 Jul 2012)

Thanks all!


----------



## Noodley (14 Jul 2012)

KC and the Sunshine Band are on TOTP2 on BBC2 right now.


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Doesn't Peguere have some *really* nasty pitches? Could be an Evans attack, not that it's worth his while... Froome will just tag along, don't get over excited.


Yes I think it does - it's the first time the tour will go there but Cadel was downplaying the chances of something like that succeeding :
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/road/video/2256429274/Cadel-Evans-Interview


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> KC and the Sunshine Band are on TOTP2 on BBC2 right now.


Scary backing singers!


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Yes I think it does - it's the first time the tour will go there but Cadel was downplaying the chances of something like that succeeding :
> http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/road/video/2256429274/Cadel-Evans-Interview


Y'know - I can't see him going 'woo hoo, I'm totally going to kill Wiggy on this one!'


----------



## thom (14 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Y'know - I can't see him going 'woo hoo, I'm totally going to kill Wiggy on this one!'


Well yes indeed. But what he says is probably true.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> KC and the Sunshine Band are on TOTP2 on BBC2 right now.



That's the way I like it.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2012)

Uh huh uh huh...


----------



## Chuffy (14 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Well yes indeed. But what he says is probably true.


Probably, after all he is quite long way back. Nibbles maybe?


----------



## johnr (15 Jul 2012)

So, as history looms, is it worth popping over to Paris to act like a lunatic on the Champs Elysee?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Imagine an American (Tyler Farrar last year I think) winning on 4th of July.



I was talking to an American guy I know vaguely, and he was saying that the tour just wasn't exciting enough because Tyler wasn't in the running.

I politely pointed out that a Brit had never won the thing and I haven't heard anything from him since! 



johnr said:


> So, as history looms, is it worth popping over to Paris to act like a lunatic on the Champs Elysee?



Possibly. Just remember to wear a Cyclechat jersey though so that we will all know who you are if you get on the telly though, thanks!

Actually, now you come to mention it.....


----------



## fozy tornip (15 Jul 2012)

If Wiggins wins this there ought to be a civic reception. I'd come down to London for it: an Appreciative Mass, for a change.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Apparently Luis-Leon Sanchez was annoyed that Wiggy chased him down and led out EBH. Idiot.


 
That's just daft.

It is one of the sights of the tour so far for me, Wiggins coming round that bend like a bullet train with EBH on his wheel. It made Vino and LLS look as though they were out on a Sunday pootle. Bet Wiggins thought he was back on the track!


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

re Evans' chances, he's going to have to be daring I feel. I personally feel it's over for him; he doesn't appear to have a team around him and neither does he seem to be the rider he was last year. Sky's greater threat, I feel, comes from Nibali.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That's just daft.
> 
> It is one of the sights of the tour so far for me, Wiggins coming round that bend like a bullet train with EBH on his wheel. It made Vino and LLS look as though they were out on a Sunday pootle. Bet Wiggins thought he was back on the track!


Yes, a great moment. I was surprised by LLS's reaction but put it down to the kind of anger that's born of despair.


----------



## MattHB (15 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Yes, a great moment. I was surprised by LLS's reaction but put it down to the kind of anger that's born of despair.



It was awesome


----------



## crisscross (15 Jul 2012)

Is Froome trying to get under Wiggo's skin witht the article in L'Equipe this morning?


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> Is Froome trying to get under Wiggo's skin witht the article in L'Equipe this morning?


 
I'll have to have a read but my guess is it that it's the journalist exercising a little selective, out of context, quoting in search of a story.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

So, are well sitting comfortably for today's 'Adventures of Barnaby Wiggins'? Will he have to do battle with his nemesis, the evil Dr Nibali? Will the whining, snivelling, cowardly Cadel stop at nothing and pull one of his underhand stunts in order to get 'his precious' yellow jersey?


----------



## PaulB (15 Jul 2012)

And now, a serious question; would you get jiggy with a podium girl/girls? Come on now, let's be having your opinions. Imagine you have won the stage or are in one of the major jerseys and presented with a trophy from a couple of podium girls. Now you know they are interested in cyclists and you know a laaaady likes a winner so with a bit of chat and Cary Grant-ish charm, she could be yours, oh yes, yours. BUT you will suffer a bit on the morrow so, do you go for a podium girl? It's been done before by certain 'notorious' riders and I'd be fairly certain it's being done still but now YOU have to decide. Does chivalry win out over animal lust? Does your duty to your team win out over the charms of that luvvvvverly podium girl?


----------



## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2012)

I'd go for it, but she would have to get on top to save my legs. It's for the team anyway, I'm sure you must get rid of some lactic acid.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'll have to have a read but my guess is it that it's the journalist exercising a little selective, out of context, quoting in search of a story.


 
Nah, I think it's probably a fair reflection of how Froome is feeling. He says he feels that he could win but he respects his role and it's his job. Imo , that's fair enough and, in honesty, you'd expect him to feel that way!

He says he'll stay with the contenders if Wiggins is dropped (to defend the jersey for Sky) but otherwise he knows his job. Equally (and I say) he could blow up in the Pyrénees himself. And Sky want Froome to ride for Wiggins and not fek it up for them both!

I don't think it's intended to nark Wiggins, just a genuine statement of how he feels at the moment.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (15 Jul 2012)

if british riders are wanting away from sky to further their ambitions, that's probably the biggest sign that the british team of riders project has been entirely successful…


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Jul 2012)

I don't think Wiggins will be surprised by Froome's comments. And I think if the course is more mountainous next year, I think you will see Sky riding for Froome, and Wiggins taking on other challenges. Either that or Froome will be riding for another team.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Well that wasn't a sight we're used to was it? Cavendish at the front of the peloton on a climb! Bit more than a lump that one too, so chapeau Cavendish. I think he might find the next one a little bit more tough though.... we'll see.


----------



## Steve H (15 Jul 2012)

Sagan just hanging in there on this last climb. If he can catch them on the descent he's going to bag another stage win


----------



## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Could be a Sandy Casar win...<crosses fingers>


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Cavendish did a fair old stint at he front at the start of the Mur de Péguère too. He's dropped back now but you have to say he really is playing his part in the team. I think we can expect Wiggins to ride himself into the ground for Cavendish at the Olympics.


----------



## aJohnson (15 Jul 2012)

Sagan managing to hang on, I think he'll win if he stays with this group.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

I wouldn't rule Gilbert out of this one. He's not been firing so far this year but he's put in one helluvan effort so far today so he might be up for it.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Sagan's not hanging around is he? Some descender!


----------



## steve broughton (15 Jul 2012)

Chaos! whats going on? Evans not a happy bunny.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (15 Jul 2012)

His first team mate also had a flat! Sorted it out just as the mavic car showed up lol. He may overcook this,descent

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## RhythMick (15 Jul 2012)

I tuned in late and the tv coverage said something about a big accident and 30 odd riders out with broken limbs. BBC says nothing about it. I must have misheard.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Peleton waiting for Evans.... except Pierre Rolland (who will no doubt have some choice comments coming his way this evening). Wiggins takes the opportunity to change bikes!


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Evans punctured again! It is NOT his day


----------



## Sittingduck (15 Jul 2012)

WTF is going on with all these flats.


----------



## RhythMick (15 Jul 2012)

Some moron thrown something onto the road ?


----------



## accountantpete (15 Jul 2012)

Another one of Evans' group punctured - must be tacks


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Astana rider Kiserlovski abandons, on his way to hospital with a broken collar bone. He crashed out at the start of the descent.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Doubt it's tacks. Could just be damp tyres plus that pretty crappy road up the Mur de P. We'll see.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Cavendish did a fair old stint at he front at the start of the Mur de Péguère too. He's dropped back now but you have to say he really is playing his part in the team. I think we can expect Wiggins to ride himself into the ground for Cavendish at the Olympics.



I'm expecting Sky to do Cav the courtesy of a full lead-out in Paris too. 

d.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Looks like the peloton aren't waiting now.... Evans has plenty of team mates with him to bring him back but, tbh, I'm not really sure what's happening.


----------



## RhythMick (15 Jul 2012)

Tacks reported on the road.


----------



## RhythMick (15 Jul 2012)

Would like to find the idiot who threw tacks and make him run barefoot across them. Then flog him. Then feed him to the wolves. Then blow up the wolves.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

RhythMick said:


> Tacks reported on the road.


 
I've not heard anything of that yet.

LL Sanchez takes a very very eventful stage!


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Evans rejoins the peloton before the finish. Peloton slowed up once Rolland was back in.

Yep, French commentators have just mentioned the tacks in the road (had to look the word 'punaise' up in the dictionary!)


----------



## Steve H (15 Jul 2012)

What other sport has such 'good sportsmanship'? Evans has a mechanical and all his rivals wait for him.


----------



## HLaB (15 Jul 2012)

RhythMick said:


> Tacks reported on the road.


28 of them, too few for a Church Elder


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2012)

Very pleased for Luis Leon. Classy rider. 

d.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

The tacks were scattered at the summit resulting in around 30 punctures. Coppers are asking the spectators at the point but organisers are doubtful of finding the culprit.

I wonder if it was a tack puncture that caused Kiserlovski to crash.

Edit; I meant to say that it was a fine victory for Sanchez. Timed his break to perfection (i.e. when Sagan was eating!) and TTed it to the line.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (15 Jul 2012)

Tacks on the road, something very wrong wth someone who does that.

Good win for Sanchez, bed with no tea for Rolland.


----------



## thom (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Edit; I meant to say that it was a fine victory for Sanchez. Timed his break to perfection (i.e. when Sagan was eating!) and TTed it to the line.


Sagan is one classy rider innit ?! He certainly doesn't need a lead out.
It's funny how one off day for Sky in the mountains could still leave Liquigas with both the yellow and green jerseys.


----------



## just jim (15 Jul 2012)

I love these flat stages.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Pierre Rolland says he didn't get, or didn't hear, anything on the race radio about the peloton waiting for Evans. No harm done in the end so I guess he gets the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact: You can pick up a packet of 20mm carpet tacks from Homebase for £5.99. But they do not tell you how many are in the pack.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Pierre Rolland appears genuinely upset at the suggestion that he took advantage. And I mean genuinely upset; trembling and emotional. I'm going to totally exonerate him! His radio played up or something.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (15 Jul 2012)

Ok, we'll let him off then.


----------



## aJohnson (15 Jul 2012)

Frank Schleck criticises 'boring' Tour de France


----------



## raindog (15 Jul 2012)

He could make it a bit more interesting by attacking.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> Frank Schleck criticises 'boring' Tour de France


 
He should try 'Procycling Manager' instead then.

Edit: after reading the article, I think what he's trying to say is best summed up by this...



> Sometimes you have a good profile for you, sometimes it's bad. Sometimes if it's bad for you, it's good for someone else. It always equals out," Fränk said. "This year it's bad for me. I can live with that."


 
So a selective quote then for the sake of an attention grabbing headline. And it worked.


----------



## raindog (15 Jul 2012)

Lot's of praise for Brad just now for having slowed the pace to let BMC get back on.
Classy Brad, they said.


----------



## aJohnson (15 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Lot's of praise for Brad just now for having slowed the pace to let BMC get back on.
> Classy Brad, they said.


 
If he wouldn't have slowed down, I wonder if Nibali would have tried something when Brad had to change bikes.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Classy Brad, they said.


 
First and most important point; I agree.

Second; I'm really starting to get my head around the tour and the attitude to it. The tour is bigger than any one rider or team. Respect the tour, it's traditions, its heritage and you will in turn get respect. Place yourself above, beyond or outside of it and you will in turn be disrespected. It's quite simple.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact: You can pick up a packet of 20mm carpet tacks from Homebase for £5.99. But they do not tell you how many are in the pack.


According to Gary Imlach - "They've found 28 tacks. There are thirty in a pack, so there are still two out there". 
I Gary Imlach.


----------



## Steve H (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> First and most important point; I agree.
> 
> Second; I'm really starting to get my head around the tour and the attitude to it. The tour is bigger than any one rider or team. Respect the tour, it's traditions, its heritage and you will in turn get respect. Place yourself above, beyond or outside of it and you will in turn be disrespected. It's quite simple.



And now I remember the scorn I felt for Contador two years ago when he attacked Andy Schlek when is mechanical occurred on a mountain.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Second; I'm really starting to get my head around the tour and the attitude to it. The tour is bigger than any one rider or team. Respect the tour, it's traditions, its heritage and you will in turn get respect. Place yourself above, beyond or outside of it and you will in turn be disrespected. It's quite simple.


Isn't this one of the reasons why certain riders were less than popular among sections of the tifosi? Merckx and Armstrong spring to mind.


----------



## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2012)

Can anyone else not watch the live coverage?

I am a bag of nerves in case Wiggins cracks, I have to turn the TV off and have the occasional glance at the online updates. It's only the highlights I can sit back and enjoy


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> And now I remember the scorn I felt for Contador two years ago when he attacked Andy Schlek when is mechanical occurred on a mountain.


At the risk of repeating an old argument (but hey, the Tour loves a bit of nostalgia!) that was very different. Schleck muffed a gear change and Contador was chasing two other riders with GC ambitions who definitely weren't going to wait (no-one ever criticises them, why not?). A better comparison would be the stage that Cancellara neutralised when loads of riders had crashes because of oil on the road.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

As there were apparently 32 punctures, I reckon the culprit must have taken advantage of a 'buy one, get one free' offer. Find the local DYI store that's doing the offer, cross reference that with the till receipts and local driving agency data base and, bingo, you have your man. I should have been a CSI.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Jul 2012)

I lost a bit of respect for Rolland today. Gained even more for LL and Sagan.


----------



## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> A better comparison would be the stage that Cancellara neutralised when loads of riders had crashes because of oil on the road.


 
Not really, that was a gamesmanship as it was his team who benefitted most.


----------



## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I lost a bit of respect for Rolland today.


 
We've all forgiven him, he did not know. Let him back into your heart...


----------



## threebikesmcginty (15 Jul 2012)

It could be that although the pack said 'contents 30 tacks' the person filling the bags just put a couple extra in, which was kind.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Not really, that was a gamesmanship as it was his team who benefitted most.


No, I'm not playing your silly games old man.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (15 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Can anyone else not watch the live coverage?
> 
> I am a bag of nerves in case Wiggins cracks, I have to turn the TV off and have the occasional glance at the online updates. It's only the highlights I can sit back and enjoy



I'm enjoying the live coverage, Wiggins looks good, nice to see him leading out yesterday and taking control today for the benefit of Cadel, really coming across as a sportsman. It could all go wrong for any number of reasons but for now it's all good stuff.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> I'm enjoying the live coverage, Wiggins looks good, nice to see him leading out yesterday and taking control today for the benefit of Cadel, really coming across as a sportsman. It could all go wrong for any number of reasons but for now it's all good stuff.


Will probably get nervous once (if) he gets through the last two Pyrennean stages ok. Rain on the TT course, a little nudge on the Champs....


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> I am a bag of nerves in case Wiggins cracks


 
I'm less fearful than I used to be. As each day passes, I'm more confident in Wiggins ability to know what needs to be done and to do it. He said yesterday that when Evans attacked on that short brutal climb (Mt St Clair??) that he wasn't concerned as there was 40km of flat to reel him in again if necessary. For me that typifies someone in relaxed control. I don't think he (and Sky generally) are leaving things to chance, it's all calculated.


----------



## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Wiggins impresses me more and more every day.


----------



## redcard (15 Jul 2012)

Team Sky were quick to congratulate themselves for their 'great sportsmanship' on their Facebook feed.

Pillocks.


----------



## yello (15 Jul 2012)

redcard said:


> Team Sky were quick to congratulate themselves for their 'great sportsmanship' on their Facebook feed. Pillocks.


 
Cut them some slack. It speaks more of corporate use of facebook than anything else. 'Buy our superb new washing powder' sort of thing.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

redcard said:


> Team Sky were quick to congratulate themselves for their 'great sportsmanship' on their Facebook feed.
> 
> Pillocks.


Did you see BMC saluting the Sky car as they rode back to the peloton? Wiggy's sportsmanship was appreciated by his peers. Turning it into a reason to Sky-bash? Sheesh...


----------



## redcard (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Did you see BMC saluting the Sky car as they rode back to the peloton? Wiggy's sportsmanship was appreciated by his peers. Turning it into a reason to Sky-bash? Sheesh...



Missing the point. Of course it was appreciated, but it shows a lack of dignity when you need to draw attention to it yourself. Anyway, it's hardly great sportsmanship, it's expected behaviour.

Team Sky, more cheerleaders than the NFL!


----------



## thom (15 Jul 2012)

Re tacks, do you think someone just misunderstood what handing out points in the mountain classification means ?


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

redcard said:


> Missing the point. Of course it was appreciated, but it shows a lack of dignity when you need to draw attention to it yourself. Anyway, it's hardly great sportsmanship, it's expected behaviour.
> 
> *Team Sky, more cheerleaders than the NFL!*


a) Why not mention it? The attack was the dominating feature of todays stage.
b) To the bold:- a chap could be forgiven for thinking you have an agenda here...


----------



## lukesdad (15 Jul 2012)

Clever tactics by sky. Froome in his interview, saying if Wiggo crax he ll ride with the contenders and crack them, Sky saying to the contenders don t bother attacking we ve got it covered.


----------



## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> We've all forgiven him, he did not know. Let him back into your heart...


Just watching the highlights again - Rolland attacks at the precise point when the race seems to have lost focus and discussions are being had. Watch Wiggy chatting to someone as Rolland attacks, think it _might_ be Nibali. Also, watch the reaction from the Sky riders as Rolland goes - he must have known that the racing had stopped for a reason and they are _not_ impressed.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Clever tactics by sky. Froome in his interview, saying if Wiggo crax he ll ride with the contenders and crack them, Sky saying to the contenders don t bother attacking we ve got it covered.


WIggo Crax is no relation to me.


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## redcard (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> a) Why not mention it? The attack was the dominating feature of todays stage.
> b) To the bold:- a chap could be forgiven for thinking you have an agenda here...



a) The attack was the dominating feature, not the fact that the whole pelotón held back when the race was over anyway.
b) My agenda was to call out their ridiculous Facebook feed.


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> WIggo Crax is no relation to me.


These modern shorts are sooo thin.


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## lukesdad (15 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> WIggo Crax is no relation to me.


I thought the resemblance was uncanny, mind i dont think wiggo can destroy a lamb shank to your exacting standards


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## thom (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Just watching the highlights again - Rolland attacks at the precise point when the race seems to have lost focus and discussions are being had. Watch Wiggy chatting to someone as Rolland attacks, think it _might_ be Nibali. Also, watch the reaction from the Sky riders as Rolland goes - he must have known that the racing had stopped for a reason and they are _not_ impressed.


 
Its a wierd one. Last year Voeckler (also Europcar...) was lionised for his tour efforts but if I remember correctly, he gained the yellow jersey and crucial time on a day to St. Flour when the racing was toned down after Hoogerland and Flecha's accident (did Vino also go off that day). He certainly seemed quite opportunistic at the time. Maybe Rolland you can say is quite young and just did something he now regrets - certainly Brad is getting a lot of respect now but he wasn't when he turned the air blue a few days ago.

I think there's also a comparison at some point to Lance Armstrong very deliberately caning it with his team and gaingin a decisive advantage when either Zulle or Ulrich had a mechanical (at the bottom of a climb in the first tour he won ... ? Dunno exactly).

I guess it's one thing when a mechanical happens that your team or the rider is responsible for, like Schleck's chain slip. When an outside party like a spectator intervenes in the racing, it's just a lottery that makes a mockery of the event if you seek to benefit from it.


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## Kiwiavenger (15 Jul 2012)

How many tacks just in one tyre on the support car! 

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Its a wierd one. Last year Voeckler (also Europcar...) was lionised for his tour efforts but if I remember correctly, he gained the yellow jersey and crucial time on a day to St. Flour when the racing was toned down after Hoogerland and Flecha's accident (did Vino also go off that day). He certainly seemed quite opportunistic at the time. Maybe Rolland you can say is quite young and just did something he now regrets - certainly Brad is getting a lot of respect now but he wasn't when he turned the air blue a few days ago.
> 
> I think there's also a comparison at some point to Lance Armstrong very deliberately caning it with his team and gaingin a decisive advantage when either Zulle or Ulrich had a mechanical (at the bottom of a climb in the first tour he won ... ? Dunno exactly).
> 
> I guess it's one thing when a mechanical happens that your team or the rider is responsible for, like Schleck's chain slip. When an outside party like a spectator intervenes in the racing, it's just a lottery that makes a mockery of the event if you seek to benefit from it.


It's all so subjective, isn't it? Codes of behaviour, rather than hard and fast rules. I rather like that, it matters more when riders chose to behave that way, rather than being obliged by rules.

What happened to Hoogerland (and Flecha) was an individual act of misfortune - I don't think you'd stop for that, especially in a break. The tacks were an attack on the whole peloton and the peloton (led by the MJ, because that's the MJ's responsibility in that kind of situation) reacted.

Armstrong caning it?I think you mean La Grande Motte in 2009 and it was his own teammate he was attacking...


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-very-interesting fact: You can pick up a packet of 20mm carpet tacks from Homebase for £5.99. But they do not tell you how many are in the pack.


 
J'accuse!


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## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2012)

redcard said:


> a) The attack was the dominating feature, not the fact that the whole pelotón held back when the race was over anyway.


The racing was over? Do you think Wiggins or Nibali gave a stuff about the stage? They are looking to the overall and had they not sat up they could have put Evans out of contention completely.

Do keep up.


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## yello (15 Jul 2012)

redcard said:


> Team Sky, more cheerleaders than the NFL!


 
And the problem with that is what exactly?



redcard said:


> My agenda was to call out their ridiculous Facebook feed.


 
But you're not calling out anything. It's not as if Sky are doing anything out of the ordinary there. If Wiggins posted the same thing, or tweeted it, I might agree with you.

Cycling is a business. Sky have sponsors. They draw attention to themselves in the name of advertising. But you know that.


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## thom (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Armstrong caning it?I think you mean La Grande Motte in 2009 and it was his own teammate he was attacking...


Well yes there's that example of internecine warfare but that was crosswinds and HTC rather than Lance.
I think it was actually 1999, stage 2 when a crash on the Passage du Gois caught out the majority of the peloton and gave Lance 6 mins over Zulle.
Its a different type of incident but it was consciously exploited by the USPS team.
And my point about Voeckler was he seemed to use the crash as an opportunity to attack the breakaway.


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## yello (15 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Its a different type of incident but it was consciously exploited by the USPS team.


 
I refer you to my early remark - respect the tradition and gain respect. The tour is no place for the '2nd place is 1st looser' attitude!


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## thom (15 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I refer you to my early remark - respect the tradition and gain respect. The tour is no place for the '2nd place is 1st looser' attitude!


Particularly if the guy who came first gets dqed for drug abuse...


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Well yes there's that example of internecine warfare but that was crosswinds and HTC rather than Lance.
> I think it was actually 1999, stage 2 when a crash on the Passage du Gois caught out the majority of the peloton and gave Lance 6 mins over Zulle.
> Its a different type of incident but it was consciously exploited by the USPS team.
> And my point about Voeckler was he seemed to use the crash as an opportunity to attack the breakaway.


I didn't know that about 1999. I'd heard that there was a crash and Zulle got dropped on the Passage, but I'd never heard about USPS driving the peloton to put time into him. Given all the anti-Lance stuff I've read over the years it's surprising that an actual example of poor form rarely gets mentioned.

I thought Voeckler only attached the break as they approached the finish? I'm sure he was doing his Hollywood routine almost to the line.


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## PaulB (15 Jul 2012)

I'd love to see a video of the miscreant who chucked the tacks locked in a room with Bernard Hinault. Can you imagine the brutality dished out by the Badger with the cloak of righteous indignation on his side?


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## thom (15 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> I didn't know that about 1999. I'd heard that there was a crash and Zulle got dropped on the Passage, but I'd never heard about USPS driving the peloton to put time into him. Given all the anti-Lance stuff I've read over the years it's surprising that an actual example of poor form rarely gets mentioned.
> 
> I thought Voeckler only attached the break as they approached the finish? I'm sure he was doing his Hollywood routine almost to the line.


See this post for a reference to it - 2nd two last paragraphs.
"Armstrong and his team had been in front of the crash. His main rival that year, Alex Zulle, was stuck behind. Armstrong’s group accelerated immediately and gained about six minutes on the stalled pack. Zulle ended up finishing second by more than seven minutes."
I only heard about it so when I mentioned earlier I was off about the details. It's hard to find on google a reference to it because you want to do a search for "Armstrong attacks" but you can imagine what turns up...
Edit : I think this incident was why the race was neutralised when they rode the passage last year.
Jens Voigt twitter quote just now:"buuh that action, trying to gain time when other suffer from punctures and crashes = lack of class ! Enough said to that."


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## Peteaud (15 Jul 2012)

Jens Voigt twitter quote just now:"buuh that action, trying to gain time when other suffer from punctures and crashes = lack of class ! Enough said to that. 








spot on


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## Andrew_Culture (15 Jul 2012)

What's happened to ITV4's budget over the last few days? Four days ago they had a full mobile studio, then some of the wall panels disappeared, then last night they had to use Belgian TV's setup and today they just have a fold up table in a layby!


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## Peteaud (15 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What's happened to ITV4's budget over the last few days? Four days ago they had a full mobile studio, then some of the wall panels disappeared, then last night they had to use Belgian TV's setup and today they just have a fold up table in a layby!


 
They spanked the budget on the 1st week.


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What's happened to ITV4's budget over the last few days? Four days ago they had a full mobile studio, then some of the wall panels disappeared, then last night they had to use Belgian TV's setup and today they just have a fold up table in a layby!


Might depend on how much space there is at the finish. Given that they only have Imlach, Boardman and a roving Boulting they don't need all that much space.


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## Peteaud (15 Jul 2012)

Why does Boardman always look so miserable?


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## User169 (15 Jul 2012)

Like Wiggo's comment: " find the culprits and send them to a football match".


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## BJH (15 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> Why does Boardman always look so miserable?




He has never struck me as someone who ever enjoys himself probably the classic driven type which is why he achieved what he did??


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## BJH (15 Jul 2012)

User said:


> OK, I'm going to play devil advocate and a different take on the Evans punture and Wiggins .....
> on itv4 Wiggins was asked what the problem was going up the climb, he replied he was having a bike problem and wanted to change bikes, now maybe, just maybe when he heard of Evans punture he took the opportunity to slow the peloton under the guise of helping Evans but really to change bike, stopping any attack from Nibali etc
> 
> edit... forgot to add a smilie...




That would be being unfair to him, he said he had struggled with his bike all day so if that was the case he was still where he needed to be so we can safely think he would have ended Cadels Tour if he had continued so I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt on this


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> Why does Boardman always look so miserable?


 
I don't think he does. He and Boulting are actually an excellent comedy act. I watch the highlights just for that if I've seen the race live. He's got good comic timing too.


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## Doseone (15 Jul 2012)

User said:


> OK, I'm going to play devil advocate and a different take on the Evans punture and Wiggins .....
> on itv4 Wiggins was asked what the problem was going up the climb, he replied he was having a bike problem and wanted to change bikes, now maybe, just maybe when he heard of Evans punture he took the opportunity to slow the peloton under the guise of helping Evans but really to change bike, stopping any attack from Nibali etc
> 
> edit... forgot to add a smilie...


 
I thought he slowed the peleton after he changed bikes. But then my feeble brain can't remember what I had for breakfast so maybe I got that wrong. Anyway, I know you're only playing devils advocate, but I like to think he slowed the peleton for the right reasons, not for any personal gain.


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## Noodley (15 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> They spanked the budget on the 1st week.


 
Or maybe Liggett blew it all paying for himself to be spanked in every town in the first week?


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## Doseone (15 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> I don't think he does. He and Boulting are actually an excellent comedy act. I watch the highlights just for that if I've seen the race live. He's got good comic timing too.


 
They are really funny in the podcast. They can cut loose a little more.


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## BJH (15 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> Frank Schleck criticises 'boring' Tour de France



Him and his brother are amongst the worst culprits for causing boring racing, neither had he bottle to go for it against Bertie. Worse still he has never answered exactly what he was doing consorting with drug doctors, maybe he was just "drug curious"


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## aJohnson (15 Jul 2012)

User said:


> OK, I'm going to play devil advocate and a different take on the Evans punture and Wiggins .....
> on itv4 Wiggins was asked what the problem was going up the climb, he replied he was having a bike problem and wanted to change bikes, now maybe, just maybe when he heard of Evans punture he took the opportunity to slow the peloton under the guise of helping Evans but really to change bike, stopping any attack from Nibali etc
> 
> edit... forgot to add a smilie...


 
Seems like he wanted to slow the group down initially then they started to chase when Rolland attacked. He didn't have to change bikes until some time after didn't he?


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## Willo (15 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> Frank Schleck criticises 'boring' Tour de France


 
Pot, kettle, black.

Love watching Andy Schleck when he does attack on a mountain, but jaysus, this Tour has at least seen some opportunism by one of the GC contenders to attack, however doomed to failure, on the majority of Stages. Now I know he may have some bias given how the Schlecks left him, but Riis described Frank Schleck as very cautious in his book, with Frank always holding out for 'tomorrow' to do something. Last year it was descending the Schlecks didn't like, this year it's the TT..................

p.s. glad to see the yellow jersey group doing the right thing by Evans today. Okay, maybe there is no need to shout about it from twitter, facebook etc. but at the end of the day the press officers etc. are going to highlight any good press and why shouldn't they. At the end of the day, Sky kept Wiggins' lead intact while also gaining some respect from the peleton, something that could be crucial should Wiggins or Froome encounter similar misfortune during the remainder of this Tour.


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

User said:


> OK, I'm going to play devil advocate and a different take on the Evans punture and Wiggins .....
> on itv4 Wiggins was asked what the problem was going up the climb, he replied he was having a bike problem and wanted to change bikes, now maybe, just maybe when he heard of Evans punture he took the opportunity to slow the peloton under the guise of helping Evans but really to change bike, stopping any attack from Nibali etc
> 
> edit... forgot to add a smilie...


Ooooooh, _controversial! and utter bollocks. _
Wiggy was looking awkward and humpy on the way up to the summit, even P&P spotted it. It looked like a very well controlled bike change, consistent with being pre-arranged, as would have to have been with the team cars so far back. I'm pretty sure it was before the race got neutralised too.


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## crisscross (15 Jul 2012)

... now if only Team Sky could neutralise the peleton on Stages 16 and 17 - I, for one, would sleep a bit easier!


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2012)

User said:


> this is from
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...eman-after-race-is-attacked-by-saboteurs.html
> 
> "Nibali immediately nodded his assent, a generous gesture as the Italian had been looking to attack down the descent, one of the few opportunities remaining in this tour for him to make good the 2mins 23 deficit which separates him and Team Sky leader.
> Then Wiggins himself suffered a mechanical failure and had to change bikes and was quickly paced back to the bunch which slowed to a crawl before the organisers officially neutralised racing, allowing Evans and others to comfortably regain contact before the end. Those ahead in the break were allowed to race on with Luis Leon Sanchez claiming the win"


New info, ta. I _thought_ it was Nibbles he was talking to - doesn't look like any persuasion was required, but sensible for Wiggy to get assent from the other GC contender. Couple of points:- I don't think they'd have pegged LLS back anyway and there was no real need for them to do so. Even if Nibbles had tried a jump on the descent I doubt it would have given him much time back, certainly not enough for it to be worth Sky cooking up a crafty attack-killing wheeze.


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2012)

If they did neutralize it, it was after two teams had already chased down Rollands for a good few k, though when they caught him it did look like he'd already given up and slowed.


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## threebikesmcginty (15 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> Why does Boardman always look so miserable?



He's from Liverpool.


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## Norm (15 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> Why does Boardman always look so miserable?


Halfords.


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## User169 (15 Jul 2012)

Rolland misheard instructions. He thought the DS said "attack", when he said "a tack".


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## Peteaud (15 Jul 2012)

Norm said:


> Halfords.


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## thom (15 Jul 2012)

To me Rolland's explanation here is plausible - it is actually possible he was so far from a team car that he had no DS communication at the time and he had not really understood what was going on - he wasn't the most important rider to discuss neutralising the stage with after all.


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> He's from Liverpool.


You daft bugger, he's from Hoylake, that's not Liverpool, it's not even the one eyed city of Birkenhead. Geographically, he's nearly a wooly back.


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Pierre Rolland says he didn't get, or didn't hear, anything on the race radio about the peloton waiting for Evans. No harm done in the end so I guess he gets the benefit of the doubt.


yeah. right. They discussed it, he set off, nobody chased, and it took twenty minutes for his team to haul him back. Either Europcar didn't want to tell him or he wasn't listening.


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## yello (16 Jul 2012)

I'd agree it did seem to take Rolland a great deal of time to twig that something was up. Nobody responded to his attack, how hurtful must that have been!  Maybe he's not the brightest of blokes, he's certainly comes across as very simply motivated.

Re the tacks, there are reports around saying they were "upholstery tacks". The misses is an upholsterer.


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## Simba (16 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Wiggins impresses me more and more every day.


 
Same, just goes to show what he could have done last year if he didn't have the nasty crash.


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## Steve H (16 Jul 2012)

Simba said:


> Same, just goes to show what he could have done last year if he didn't have the nasty crash.


 
We'll just never know!


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

the Rolland thing rumbles on in the pages of L'Equipe, but for a real taste of the fury excited by the our fave breakaway artiste, visit the comments section...

You speak to me? I spit my venom on the French? which apart Rolland I endured until now but that is something unworthy of its level (unfortunately it is badly influenced by his team ... Just look at the two dir.sportifs that contradict). ...........Pinot just behind the classification has not attacked yet he saw Rolland from your own ... he was right behind but has much more class.

worse still

Your spelling stings my eyes 

elsewhere, we read this mystifying contribution from Jerome Coppel

 "Day in galley galley! To tell you, I farted before Mark Cavendish at the first bump ... Fortunately, the whole team is organized around me and the guys have put in well route.Nous did not panic. Then I tried to recover.


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## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

Are they babelfish translations or something?
I've never seen anyone trying to comment on l'Equipe in English before.

I rarely use their site as it's such a mess to navigate, and there's so much junk on every page my 'puter sometimes freezes up. Not nice.
Plus, it's a general sports newspaper, so you don't just have cyclists commenting, you get trolls from other sports who don't know WTF they're talking about.
If you want to read about bike racing in French, try this place
http://www.velochrono.fr/actu/


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> the Rolland thing rumbles on in the pages of L'Equipe, but for a real taste of the fury excited by the our fave breakaway artiste, visit the comments section...
> 
> You speak to me? I spit my venom on the French? which apart Rolland I endured until now but that is something unworthy of its level (unfortunately it is badly influenced by his team ... Just look at the two dir.sportifs that contradict). ...........Pinot just behind the classification has not attacked yet he saw Rolland from your own ... he was right behind but has much more class.
> 
> ...


I saw that ''ton orthographe me pique les yeux'' one earlier. I thought it was justified.

I haven't found the ''galley galley'' one but I guess it's ''galère'' in the original. ''A day in hell''
''I farted'' would have been ''j'ai peté'' - ''I blew up at the first bump''


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I saw that ''ton orthographe me pique les yeux'' one earlier. I thought it was justified.
> 
> I haven't found the ''galley galley'' one but I guess it's ''galère'' in the original. ''A day in hell''
> ''I farted'' would have been ''j'ai peté'' - ''I blew up at the first bump''


that's very helpful. 'Sorry, darling, I blew up at the first bump' is going to come in handy.............

Here's Cadel's take on it - 
After a hard start, an easier transition to a dramatic final - a little bit more drama than we are used to today...three punctures in the last 38km, mostly of them downhill, all caused by tacks. I do not know how or why the tacks were on the road; I'm guessing someone who was watching on Tv can piece together the facts to draw a conclusion. For me, first a rear puncture in the last kilometre of the climb. 'Stevo' came but had a puncture already, Amaël gave me his wheel which went flat. Giorgio, Michi, Amaël and the 'Quinzi' came together like only my 'BMC Guardian Angels' can, only for me to puncture in the front (that could have been dangerous), then we could finally go fast and get back.

I don't have a tv on my bike - as many of the press do not seem to understand - so I do not know what went on in the yellow jersey group, reports tell me 'Wiggo' was the sporting one....some others not so sporting...On a day like that you learn a lot about your colleagues.


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> yeah. right. They discussed it, he set off, nobody chased, and it took twenty minutes for his team to haul him back. Either Europcar didn't want to tell him or he wasn't listening.


But it's possible he wasn't aware of exactly what happened and was not privy to the discussions in the lead group because he was not actually one of the top GC contenders. One of the Europcars was stuck behind the carnage and the other was up the road with Gautier. Mobile phone reception is bad enough in hilly parts like that - it's not hard to imagine that he was out of radio contact to his DS.
Just pointing out a plausible explanation and that like a lot with cycling, we'll probably never know the truth ;-)


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> that's very helpful. 'Sorry, darling, I blew up at the first bump' is going to come in handy.............
> 
> Here's Cadel's take on it -
> After a hard start, an easier transition to a dramatic final - a little bit more drama than we are used to today...three punctures in the last 38km, mostly of them downhill, all caused by tacks. I do not know how or why the tacks were on the road; I'm guessing someone who was watching on Tv can piece together the facts to draw a conclusion. For me, first a rear puncture in the last kilometre of the climb. 'Stevo' came but had a puncture already, Amaël gave me his wheel which went flat. Giorgio, Michi, Amaël and the 'Quinzi' came together like only my 'BMC Guardian Angels' can, only for me to puncture in the front (that could have been dangerous), then we could finally go fast and get back.
> ...


He also points the finger at Spanish fans, with whom he has had previous bad experiences.


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> But it's possible he wasn't aware of exactly what happened and was not privy to the discussions in the lead group because he was not actually one of the top GC contenders. One of the Europcars was stuck behind the carnage and the other was up the road with Gautier. Mobile phone reception is bad enough in hilly parts like that - it's not hard to imagine that he was out of radio contact to his DS.
> Just pointing out a plausible explanation and that like a lot with cycling, we'll probably never know the truth ;-)


he was on Wiggins' right hand side as the discussion went on, and at the point when they all slackened off.......away he went!


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> He also points the finger at Spanish fans, with whom he has had previous bad experiences.


wow! That's full-on from Cuddles! And pretty much guarantees he won't be racing in Spain for a while to come.......


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Everyone's having a dig at Rolland but I believe his claim that he had no communication from the team car for the simple reason that if he had, they presumably would have told him that he had absolutely nothing to gain from his move and that he should be saving his energy for the mountains.

To my mind, the far more unsporting move of the day was Tejay failing to wait for Evans when he punctured at the top of the climb. He claims he didn't hear Evans calling for him, but the way he looked back over his shoulder suggests otherwise. He's gone right down in my estimation. (And it shows that whatever tensions there may be between Froome and Wiggins, they're nothing compared to the tensions in the BMC camp.)

d.


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> he was on Wiggins' right hand side as the discussion went on, and at the point when they all slackened off.......away he went!


This I haven't seen - from what I saw, Sky were at the front and Wiggo was talking to a team mate in between when Rolland attacked.


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> To my mind, the far more unsporting move of the day was Tejay failing to wait for Evans when he punctured at the top of the climb. He claims he didn't hear Evans calling for him, but the way he looked back over his shoulder suggests otherwise. He's gone right down in my estimation. (And it shows that whatever tensions there may be between Froome and Wiggins, they're nothing compared to the tensions in the BMC camp.)
> 
> d.


He says here he did hear him and knew there was a puncture but that he thought there was another team mate there to help.


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## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> He says here he did hear him and knew there was a puncture but that he thought there was another team mate there to help.


 
Ah, thanks for that. Interesting though... I'm sure I heard him saying he didn't hear Evans. Maybe I'm misremembering it.

Either way, if you hear your team leader calling you by name for assistance, you don't make assumptions about other team-mates being able to help, you stop.

d.


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## yello (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> And it shows that whatever tensions there may be between Froome and Wiggins, they're nothing compared to the tensions in the BMC camp.


 
I think you may have a point there. I remember thinking a few days back when Cadel got dropped on La Toussuire and Tejay had to pace him that it must have rankled a little. Tejay being in white and presumably wanting to hang onto it. He lost nearly a minute and a half to Pinot that day, that wont have pleased him.


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Either way, if you hear your team leader calling you by name for assistance, you don't make assumptions about other team-mates being able to help, you stop.
> d.


Yes - Tejay is probably not used to surpressing the urge to squander his position for the sake of a leader in whom he is questioning his confidence.


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## dellzeqq (16 Jul 2012)

Tejay seemed a little vague in his first interview, but he 'fleshed out' the account in his second.

My thought is - mass confusion and a bit of panic at the top of the hill, he thinks that another team mate is on the way, he knows he's 'done his bit' for Evans, and he got carried away. The problem is that Cadel is not one of life's forgivers. Then again, Tejay will probably move at the end of the year.


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## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Rolland seems to have attracted most ire, but IMO it's Tejay who should be getting the pasting. Deserting your leader is not the done thing - he may have a new contract elsewhere as team leader sewn up for next year but he's unlikely to be getting many favours until then from BMC. And if he does not have a new contract then I reckon he's not gonna get favours anytime soon, if ever.


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## martint235 (16 Jul 2012)

I think if Cuddles has a problem with Tejay, he'll probably deal with it. In this instance I'd tend to support Tejay. He's got the white jersey; he believes there's a team mate nearby (there was, it just so happened he had a puncture too!) and when Evans called Tejay was in front. It's a narrow enough road by the looks of it to negotiate without have a rider try to turn around and leg it back with a wheel, presumably dumping his bike by the side of the road.


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## thom (16 Jul 2012)

Blooming heck, apparently someone poured thick oil on the descent of the first 4'th cat climb today. Time to clear it up yet.


----------



## swansonj (16 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> I think if Cuddles has a problem with Tejay, he'll probably deal with it. In this instance I'd tend to support Tejay. He's got the white jersey; he believes there's a team mate nearby (there was, it just so happened he had a puncture too!) and when Evans called Tejay was in front. It's a narrow enough road by the looks of it to negotiate without have a rider try to turn around and leg it back with a wheel, presumably dumping his bike by the side of the road.


I'm sure I remember from a previous year that there was a rule about not going backwards - if a teammate behind you needed help, they had to get themselves up to you, you could wait for them but not go back to them. Is that still the case, and if so, does it allow running backwards with a wheel?


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting fact: Pau is the 3rd most used town for starts or finishes in the tour, behind Paris and Bordeaux. Today will be the 63rd time the tour has visited Pau (which is famous for it's chateau, that Paul Sherwen will no doubt tell us all about later on).


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Chavanel abandons the race.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today will be the 63rd time the tour has visited Pau (which is famous for it's chateau, that Paul Sherwen will no doubt tell us all about later on).


It must be hard to find complementary yet uninteresting material - do you consult each other ?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> It must be hard to find complementary yet uninteresting material - do you consult each other ?



Is Noodly actually Yawn Kelly?


----------



## marinyork (16 Jul 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Is Noodly actually Yawn Kelly?


 
In the chatroom Noodley commentated on previous tour de frances. He's actually very good.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Another slow day... but surely the sprinters' teams will pick it up eventually because this one is not marked down for a breakaway win.


----------



## beastie (16 Jul 2012)

Predictions for today's stage???? Anyone?????
Can Cav stick with the bunch? Will the breakaway last?

I'll pick TV tommy after he has had a few day's off (relatively speaking)


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

marinyork said:


> In the chatroom Noodley commentated on previous tour de frances. He's actually very good.


 
I was aiming for a job on cyclingnews live feed, but it didnae work out given that only you and I were in the chatroom at the time


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Sagan for me today. Or Cav if Sky get him over the bumps successfully.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (16 Jul 2012)

How do you even know when this is on tv, I miss it all the time


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

2pm ITV4


----------



## Peter Armstrong (16 Jul 2012)

What about non office hours!


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

So was that cunning tactics from Saxo ? It seemed the breakaway were deliberately resisting Sorensen's attempts to bridge, so did they force the break to change their minds when Saxo went onto the front of the peloton itself in an attempt to peg the time gap ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Sky are just starting to up the pace the peloton now, and the gap is coming down a little... but Shaun Kelly on Eurosport is saying that he thinks the breakaway might succeed as everyone is too tired today. I don't believe it.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Greipel for me today. It's his birthday!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

The gap has come down by a more than a minute in less than 5km. No chance this break going all the way.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> What about non office hours!


 
They race during office hours! 
But one hour highlights are 7pm every night on ITV4


----------



## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Greipel for me today. It's his birthday!


Jalabert just said it would be a good opportunity for Cav to wish him happy birthday as they cross the line.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Lotto now taking up the pace. But really,_ nothing_ is happening.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

It all looks very lovely and french tho.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

What does Ligget mean, Chavanel was not ill ?! He was badly sick in the night and the team doctor told him not to continue !


----------



## montage (16 Jul 2012)

Cav must be doing his nut with this lack of interest to catch the break


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Yep, both Lotto and Sky suddenly seem to have entirely given up the pursuit. I don't get it. They were reeling them in comparatively easily before.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (16 Jul 2012)

Awwww, liked the Donkey!


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yep, both Lotto and Sky suddenly seem to have entirely given up the pursuit. I don't get it. They were reeling them in comparatively easily before.


They slowed initially not to drop Cav on the climb and then on the descent to take care avoiding an oil spill, which was speculated to be another sabotage attempt. But it looks a lost cause now.


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 Jul 2012)

Suppose Sky are just conserving energy, you can't imagine this break working if HTC were still around.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Bored now. Not interested in who wins today.


----------



## cd365 (16 Jul 2012)

It does seem like a very boring day.


----------



## dragon72 (16 Jul 2012)

I stopped caring when nobody could be bothered to make Sagan sweat for sprint points at the intermediate.
They've got the day off to rest tomorrow, so I'm not content with the "peloton's a bit knackered" excuse.


----------



## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

This is getting like the comments on the Grauniad bike pages. The first week everybody was complaining because the sprinter's teams never let a break go all the way, today we've got a break going all the way and it's boring.


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2012)

Who's in the break, Voeckler, Sorensen .......?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> This is getting like the comments on the Grauniad bike pages. The first week everybody was complaining because the sprinter's teams never let a break go all the way, today we've got a break going all the way and it's boring.


 
I don't mind either way, but I'd like the break to have to work for it a bit more than this. There's no tension.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Who's in the break, Voeckler, Sorensen .......?


 
Dumoulin, Fedrigo, Devenys, Vande Velde....come on Fedrigo!!


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Dumoulin, Fedrigo, Devenys, Vande Velde....come on Fedrigo!!


Typical. None in my fantasy team. Presumably you've got Fredrigo then.


----------



## crisscross (16 Jul 2012)

Really chuffed I took the afternoon off to watch this paint drying exercise.

As a Wiggo fan I should be chuffed, but honestly, this is rubbish.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Nope, but he's FDJ - I must be in the minority of racing fans and follow the fortunes of a team and not just individual riders.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> ...but honestly, this is rubbish.


 
I am enjoying it.


----------



## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> Really chuffed I took the afternoon off to watch this paint drying exercise.
> 
> As a Wiggo fan I should be chuffed, but honestly, this is rubbish.


hmmmm.....taking an afternoon off to watch a flat stage? I hope you're taking wednesday off too


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Don't want to sound like I'm just copying what the telly commentators are saying, but this stage is looking like it has Dumoulin's name all over it.

Although Fedrigo looks like he's keeping his powder dry for a lone break in the final few km...

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I am enjoying it.


 
Yeah, but you would, being the master of uninteresting facts!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Argh! Live feed lost just as it looked like something interesting was about to happen! FFS!

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Finally, some action. Federigo or Vandevelde?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Easy for Federigo in the end.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

YES!


----------



## crisscross (16 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> hmmmm.....taking an afternoon off to watch a flat stage? I hope you're taking wednesday off too


 
This was the only day of the week I could get a couple of hours off - even worse is the fact that my day off is tomorrow - rest day.


----------



## Noodley (16 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Easy for Federigo in the end.


 
Fedrigo. Are you coming over all Sherwen and making names up?


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

Would have been happy to see either of those two win. Well played, Fedrigo.

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Fedrigo. Are you coming over all Sherwen and making names up?


 
 I was clearly thinking of his Spanish cousin...


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

I believe Sherwen calls him FederigofromthecontinentofEuropewhichisnearthecontinentofAfrica


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Odd. Greipel took the bunch sprint - and on his birthday. Given that Lotto don't have much else to ride for, and Greipel was clearly feeling okay, why didn't they drive the peloton earlier to catch the break? Then Greipel might have had another stage win, on his birthday...


----------



## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Given that Lotto don't have much else to ride for, and Greipel was clearly feeling okay, why didn't they drive the peloton earlier to catch the break? .


Apparently, Lotto didn't want to chase the break down on their own, and Greenedge were sulking and refused to help. That's according to the guy on the second motorbike who chats with the DSs.


----------



## raindog (16 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> This was the only day of the week I could get a couple of hours off - even worse is the fact that my day off is tomorrow - rest day.


ah right. Bummer.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Apparently, Lotto didn't want to chase the break down on their own, and Greenedge were sulking and refused to help. That's according to the guy on the second motorbike who chats with the DSs.


 
Well, I guess they got what they deserved then...


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sky are just starting to up the pace the peloton now, and the gap is coming down a little... but _*Shaun*_ Kelly on Eurosport is saying that he thinks the breakaway might succeed as everyone is too tired today. I don't believe it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 Jul 2012)

I sure hope there are some decent efforts to put some time into Wiggins after tomorrow, otherwise just go directly to Paris on Thursday and hand out the prizes.


----------



## subaqua (16 Jul 2012)

well the 1st few mi nutes of ITV 4s coverage was agreat excuse to watch some crashes and watch Hinault punching people again( which never fails to please me- the punching that is)


----------



## Andrew_Culture (16 Jul 2012)

subaqua said:


> well the 1st few mi nutes of ITV 4s coverage was agreat excuse to watch some crashes and watch Hinault punching people again( which never fails to please me- the punching that is)



It was both traumatic and entertaining!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2012)

So (excuse my tactical naivety) did the presence of Cav up with the Sky train dissuade challenges? I'm imagining a scenario where Sky up the tempo to stay abreast of the catch with Cav as joker for the finish.


----------



## just jim (16 Jul 2012)

Jens Voigt : "If they want an indestructable dead-hard worker, then I'm in. You know? That's me."
Nice interview.


----------



## just jim (16 Jul 2012)

"I could hear millions of little cells crying in agony Jens stop I can't do it anymore!".


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


>


 
Oh, give over, and stop being so supercilious, it's just a product of quick typing.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (16 Jul 2012)

Has anyone found the competition page on the itv website? There's actually a prize i want to win now! I guessed they'd hide it but this is mad!


----------



## Twizit (16 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Has anyone found the competition page on the itv website? There's actually a prize i want to win now! I guessed they'd hide it but this is mad!



Yep found it, but I'm not saying where


----------



## Twizit (16 Jul 2012)

...click through to the Tour page on itv.com and it's bottom right....


----------



## BJH (16 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> He's from Liverpool.



Now now, no need for that.

And in actual fact he's from the Wirral not Liverpool


----------



## BJH (16 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> As there were apparently 32 punctures, I reckon the culprit must have taken advantage of a 'buy one, get one free' offer. Find the local DYI store that's doing the offer, cross reference that with the till receipts and local driving agency data base and, bingo, you have your man. I should have been a CSI.



I follow this one and can see where you're going with it - was it Lance or Ferrari????


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

Both Ms Froome and Ms Cavendish on Twitter again whining about how their man is being stitched up by nasty Sky and that horrid man with the sideburns. Y'know if Baggy was at the sharp end of the biggest sporting event of the year, I wouldn't be on Twitter stirring shoot up in public. Not smart, not clever, benefits no-one....


----------



## Speicher (16 Jul 2012)

BJH said:


> Now now, no need for that.
> 
> And in actual fancy he's from the Wirral not Liverpool


I do not fancy him actually.


----------



## iLB (16 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Both Ms Froome and Ms Cavendish on Twitter again whining about how their man is being stitched up by nasty Sky and that horrid man with the sideburns. Y'know if Baggy was at the sharp end of the biggest sporting event of the year, I wouldn't be on Twitter stirring s*** up in public. Not smart, not clever, benefits no-one....


 
I would say it is bordering on embarrassing for Froome and Cavendish, who at least publicly seem to have happily accepted their roles as part of team Wiggins. If that's not the case then they should say for themselves, and if they genuinely are happy why are their partners moaning?


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Oh, give over, and stop being so supercilious, it's just a product of quick typing.


Would have been quicker to have spelt it right. Fewer letters, you see


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Both Ms Froome and Ms Cavendish on Twitter again whining about how their man is being stitched up by nasty Sky and that horrid man with the sideburns. Y'know if Baggy was at the sharp end of the biggest sporting event of the year, I wouldn't be on Twitter stirring s*** up in public. Not smart, not clever, benefits no-one....


I think Tweeter Sagan speaks more sense:
"In Team Sky Mr Froome have nickname 'Froome-dog'. This why Mr Twiglet take him everywhere on leash."


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I think Tweeter Sagan speaks more sense:
> "In Team Sky Mr Froome have nickname 'Froome-dog'. This why Mr Twiglet take him everywhere on leash."


Hah! Well, both Cav and Froome knew the deal when they signed up. Even if they are chafing a little, that's just tough and they both know that they'll get payback (Cav gets Wiggy & co riding their nuts off in the Olympics and Froome gets a captain's role in a future GT). I don't get the impression that either are particularly unhappy but the press (and sections of the internet) have been _desperate_ to stoke both scraps since well before the Tour started. I don't know what Peta and Michelle think they'll achieve, I really don't.


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Jul 2012)

That's WAGS for you.


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> That's WAGS for you.


Let's not go down that route. Saw at least one commentator on Twitter opting for the 'pack it in love, you don't know what you're on about' line, which isn't so great even if what they're doing is stupid.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Hah! Well, both Cav and Froome knew the deal when they signed up. Even if they are chafing a little, that's just tough and they both know that they'll get payback (Cav gets Wiggy & co riding their nuts off in the Olympics and Froome gets a captain's role in a future GT). I don't get the impression that either are particularly unhappy but the press (and sections of the internet) have been _desperate_ to stoke both scraps since well before the Tour started. I don't know what Peta and Michelle think they'll achieve, I really don't.


Well I'm a bit curious as to whether Sky/TeamGB think that with a lighter Cav they might also have a chance of defending the World Champion's jersey later in the year. Success at the Olympics may embolden a strategy.


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Well I'm a bit curious as to whether Sky/TeamGB think that with a lighter Cav they might also have a chance of defending the World Champion's jersey later in the year. Success at the Olympics may embolden a strategy.


What's the 2013 Worlds course like then?


----------



## Andrew_Culture (16 Jul 2012)

Twizit said:


> ...click through to the Tour page on itv.com and it's bottom right....



Ta! Found it http://www.itv.com/tourdefrancecompetition/default.html


----------



## iLB (16 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> What's the 2013 Worlds course like then?


2012 ?


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> 2012 ?


I like to plan in advance.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> 2012 ?


Yep indeed. 
Here's the course. Lumpy classics country but prima facie the gradients don't look too selective. Likely they're averages but I just don't believe team GB won't try to defend the jersey seriously.


----------



## Chuffy (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Yep indeed.
> Here's the course. Lumpy classics country but prima facie the gradients don't look too selective. Likely they're averages but I just don't believe team GB won't try to defend the jersey seriously.


Maybe. Shame Thomas isn't on the road this year.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Yep indeed.
> Here's the course. Lumpy classics country but prima facie the gradients don't look too selective. Likely they're averages but I just don't believe team GB won't try to defend the jersey seriously.



Don't they do the Cauberg something like 10 times on the finishing circuit? That's going to be rather more selective than Box Hill, I would have thought. 

d.


----------



## thom (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Don't they do the Cauberg something like 10 times on the finishing circuit? That's going to be rather more selective than Box Hill, I would have thought.
> 
> d.


That would make more sense - it's not specifically marked on the route map but must be why the loop goes through Valkenburg.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2012)

IIRC there's a long flat tour through the provinces then a short and rather lumpy finishing circuit that they do ten times, including the Cauberg and at least one other significant climb. Can't really see Cav being in the mix at the end of that. 

d.


----------



## montage (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> IIRC there's a long flat tour through the provinces then a short and rather lumpy finishing circuit that they do ten times, including the Cauberg and at least one other significant climb. Can't really see Cav being in the mix at the end of that.
> 
> d.


 
Froome on the other hand!


----------



## beastie (16 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> IIRC there's a long flat tour through the provinces then a short and rather lumpy finishing circuit that they do ten times, including the Cauberg and at least one other significant climb. Can't really see Cav being in the mix at the end of that.
> 
> d.


Sagan ?
EBH ?
Gilbert ?
Boonen maybe?


----------



## GaryA (17 Jul 2012)

Id assumed for years that wiggy was a born-and-bred no-nonsense (that press conference!) gritty northerner....with a name like Wiggins and living in lancashire...imagine my surprise to discover he's a londoner-belgian who can speak fluent french.


----------



## Simba (17 Jul 2012)

Reading Cav's body language and tweets, I don't think he is very happy at Team Sky, when he signed last year I knew it was a mistake for him. He needs to join a sprinters team and not a GC one.


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2012)

may I say what a pleasure it is to see them going the manly way up Tourmalet for a change


----------



## Noodley (17 Jul 2012)

sheesh! Can we get this sorted once and for all..Cav is not in a GC Team. Sky ride the race as they see it. If they see it as a sprinters race then they race it as such...they have the depth to change as conditions suit. Stop getting caught up in meedya shite and listening to nobbers on forums! There is a full race calendar beyond the Tour de France!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Stop getting caught up in meedya shite and listening to nobbers on forums!


 
We'd grind to a halt!


----------



## ColinJ (17 Jul 2012)

GaryA said:


> Id assumed for years that wiggy was a born-and-bred no-nonsense (that press conference!) gritty northerner....with a name like Wiggins and living in lancashire...imagine my surprise to discover he's a londoner-belgian who can speak fluent french.


And his father was Australian!


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Jul 2012)

GaryA said:


> Id assumed for years that wiggy was a born-and-bred no-nonsense (that press conference!) gritty northerner....with a name like Wiggins and living in lancashire...imagine my surprise to discover he's a londoner-belgian who can speak fluent french.


Go back to one of Britain's most successful riders of the sixties and seventies, Michael Wright, who although born in Bishops Stortford didn't speak a word of English as his family moved to Belgium when he was a toddler.


----------



## GaryA (17 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> I'd like to wager that todays stage will be more interesting than yesterdays.....


 Haha rest day


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2012)

Brad talking about gentleman Cav
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-Cavendish-over-Tour-de-France-sacrifice.aspx


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> Sagan ?
> EBH ?
> Gilbert ?
> Boonen maybe?


 
The course seems to have been designed by the Belgians to suit a certain Belgian rider... though you'd have to say that on current form, he won't be favourite.

d.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2012)

Jensie talking sensie...
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cult-cycling-hero-jens-voigt-talks-to-ned-boulting/


----------



## crisscross (17 Jul 2012)

GaryA said:


> Id assumed for years that wiggy was a born-and-bred no-nonsense (that press conference!) gritty northerner....with a name like Wiggins and living in lancashire...imagine my surprise to discover he's a londoner-belgian who can speak fluent french.


 
He's from Eccleston in Lancashire and we're keeping him as one of our own!

Forget the Belgian/ Australian/ Cockney arguments - he's now officially a Northerner - and a pie eater to boot. His first question after finishing Saturday's stage was about how Wigan RLFC were doing.

We've not much to be proud of around here so having the most successful GB* TdeF rider ever is something we'll grab with both hands!

* possibly


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> His first question after finishing Saturday's stage was about how Wigan RLFC were doing.


Apart from his black socks, that's about the only thing that worries me about him - that he seems to prefer league over union.


----------



## dellzeqq (17 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Jensie talking sensie...
> http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cult-cycling-hero-jens-voigt-talks-to-ned-boulting/


charming, articulate, thoughtful, pleasant, fantastic cyclist and good looking with it.

WE HATE HIM!!!!!


----------



## GaryA (17 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> He's from Eccleston in Lancashire and we're keeping him as one of our own!
> 
> Forget the Belgian/ Australian/ Cockney arguments - he's now officially a Northerner - and a pie eater to boot. His first question after finishing Saturday's stage was about how Wigan RLFC were doing.
> 
> ...


 The Carl Fogarty or James Whitham of the cycling world...?


----------



## User169 (17 Jul 2012)

just jim said:


> "I could hear millions of little cells crying in agony Jens stop I can't do it anymore!".


 

SHUT UP, CELLS!


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> I'd like to wager that todays stage will be more interesting than yesterdays.....


The action yesterday was Sagan signing poitrines...


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Possibly the best thing I will do today, is put that word into a Google Image search...


 
https://twitter.com/flammecast/status/224864940413034496/photo/1/large
(sorry if this lowers the tone...)
Edit : http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...shboard=tour-de-france&id=oUWakT8eu7I&yr=2012


----------



## lukesdad (17 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> sheesh! Can we get this sorted once and for all..Cav is not in a GC Team. Sky ride the race as they see it. If they see it as a sprinters race then they race it as such...they have the depth to change as conditions suit. Stop getting caught up in meedya shite and listening to nobbers on forums! There is a full race calendar beyond the Tour de France!


 Of course assuming all members are compliant


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2012)

TdF rest day, why does is it such a long time?...


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Jensie talking sensie...
> http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cult-cycling-hero-jens-voigt-talks-to-ned-boulting/


 
He really is a top bloke.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> TdF rest day, why does is it such a long time?...


He's definitely a climber


----------



## lukesdad (17 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> He really is a top bloke.


You re right he is.....mind he did talk a lot of bollox about team radios a while back ( bit of a senior moment maybe )


----------



## lukesdad (17 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> He's definitely a climber


 Shouldn't you be painting or framing or... instead of loitering in here


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Shouldn't you be painting or framing or... instead of loitering in here


Hey, I'm not married to you!


----------



## Noodley (17 Jul 2012)

Today's not-very-interesting-fact-of-the-rest-day is that, if you are missing the race coverage, simply pick up a phone book and try to pronounce 2 pages of names in as strange a manner as you possibly can; then follow it up by picking up a local tourist brochure whilst running your finger under every word and reading aloud like a 5 year old doing homework....ta da! It's like having Liggett and Sherwen.


----------



## Simba (17 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Apart from his black socks, that's about the only thing that worries me about him - that he seems to prefer league over union.


 
League is far superior to yawnion.


----------



## raindog (17 Jul 2012)

ah, right.


----------



## lukesdad (17 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> Hey, I'm not married to you!


 You'd be much more suited to noods, he likes an " old woman "


----------



## Chuffy (17 Jul 2012)

Simba said:


> League is far superior to yawnion.


Is there a difference? It's all beefy blokes having a cuddle in the mud at the end of the day.


----------



## iLB (17 Jul 2012)

Oh Jim...


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2012)

Just heard Wiggo on the radio talking about Froome. He says undoubtedly Froome can win the tour, will win the tour in the future and that he will help him do so. He sounds very sincere and straightforward. Quality.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2012)

Is that the same interview where Wiggins said he knew he wasn't going to be a multiple TdF winner?


----------



## thom (17 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Is that the same interview where Wiggins said he knew he wasn't going to be a multiple TdF winner?


I only heard a snippet, not the whole shabang so dunno.
Edit : link to related article


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Jul 2012)

GaryA said:


> The Carl Fogarty or James Whitham of the cycling world...?


Not Whitham, please.

Nerves once got the better of him on a GP start line and he had to ride the race after suffering a major league follow through. He suffered a similar feat another time after high-siding. You can get away with that sort of thing in one piece leathers but...


----------



## perplexed (17 Jul 2012)

I've just had a look at the profile of tomorrows stage.

I nearly brought my tea back up.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> I've just had a look at the profile of tomorrows stage.
> 
> I nearly brought my tea back up.


 
Good, isn't it? If anyone's going to crack, this is the day... and anyone could crack very badly.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (17 Jul 2012)

They can take it easy on Thursday though as it's only 140-odd km!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2012)

BTW, for any discussion of Fank Schleck's positive test, I've started a separate thread to keep this one strictly on the race itself.


----------



## Noodley (17 Jul 2012)

His positive test IS part of the race tho...


----------



## ColinJ (17 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> His positive test IS part of the race tho...


_WAS?  _


----------



## BJH (17 Jul 2012)

Good riddance to the scrote, ban him for life


----------



## BJH (17 Jul 2012)

Speicher said:


> I do not fancy him actually.




Blewdy Ipeed keeysboard flor yoo, Payne to twype on


----------



## Simba (18 Jul 2012)

BJH said:


> Good riddance to the scrote, ban him for life


 
Ah Touché, can't stand the Schlecks, always whining about one thing or another.


----------



## Noodley (18 Jul 2012)

Today's not-vert-interesting fact: This website has some very good "art" of the Tour stages
http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/


----------



## Beebo (18 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Today's not-vert-interesting fact: This website has some very good "art" of the Tour stages
> http://brucedoscher.com/cyclingposters/


 It doesnt look a bit like Wiggo, apart from the token sideburns. Not even the correct style helmet.


----------



## PaulB (18 Jul 2012)

Illuminating article in today's Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-race-leader-closes-on-historic-triumph.html


----------



## BrumJim (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Apart from his black socks, that's about the only thing that worries me about him - that he seems to prefer league over union.


 
Well he would do, giving that there is no Union being played at the moment. (In the Nothern Hemisphere, smart a**es)


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

A break of 38 riders has formed


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> Illuminating article in today's Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-race-leader-closes-on-historic-triumph.html


 
Call me an old cynic by all means, but I can't help feeling the Torygraph has swallowed the Sky publicity machine's output without any kind of questioning. Yes I hope that Sky stays united as a team, and continues to work for Brad and a Cav stage win in Paris, just as I hope there are no more drug related "suspensions"..... but I fear it may not be the case.


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> A break of 38 riders has formed


including Steve Cummings.... .chances of a 5th (different) Brit stage win ???


----------



## accountantpete (18 Jul 2012)

Sky look very relaxed so presumably no threat - (I'm viewing via German Eurosport and can't understand a word).


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> including Steve Cummings.... .chances of a 5th (different) Brit stage win ???


I assume he's up there to give Evans a boost later on.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

In the 38 are 2 from BMC : Cummings & Hincapie but none from Liquigas. Does this mean Cadel will have a go early and Nibali on the descent ? 
Also Dan Martin, Voeckler, Casar, Vino, Taaramae, Kessiakof (KOM), Voigt & Popovich (RNT) and then some more.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2012)

with Martinez, Costa and Sorensen in the breakaway, might teams like Europcar and AG2R might get a little nervous about the GC standings?


----------



## accountantpete (18 Jul 2012)

Christopher Horner has gone over the edge on a bend - looks shaken but ok.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> with Martinez, Costa and Sorensen in the breakaway, might teams like Europcar and AG2R might get a little nervous about the GC standings?


I think this stage is so big that the chances are all but a couple of these guys will be overhauled by the end - closest guy in GC is 18 mins down.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> In the 38 are 2 from BMC : Cummings & Hincapie but none from Liquigas. Does this mean Cadel will have a go early and Nibali on the descent ?
> Also Dan Martin, Voeckler, Casar, Vino, Taaramae, Kessiakof (KOM), Voigt & Popovich (RNT) and then some more.


I can't think that this is a big 'GC podium' day. I suppose Evans and Nibali will have a pop toward the end, but neither have the team to make a big attempt two days in succession - and BMC are, in any case, more comfortable on the flat than on the hills.

If Cuddles or Nibbles are intent on a big move it will surely be tomorrow. I suspect that Evans is pretty much intent on saving what he's got, and might even fancy his chances of overhauling Nibali in the TT.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Two BMC riders in the break (Cummings and Hincapie) suggests Evans will attack on the Tourmalet, surely?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Two BMC riders in the break (Cummings and Hincapie) suggests Evans will attack on the Tourmalet, surely?


 
That's what I was thinking.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Call me an old cynic by all means, but I can't help feeling the Torygraph has swallowed the Sky publicity machine's output without any kind of questioning.


 
I get the impression Brendan Gallagher doesn't follow the sport too closely. In his piece in the Sunday edition, he said that Brad used to be Cav's leadout man at HTC.

d.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> I can't think that this is a big 'GC podium' day. I suppose Evans and Nibali will have a pop toward the end, but neither have the team to make a big attempt two days in succession - and BMC are, in any case, more comfortable on the flat than on the hills.
> 
> If Cuddles or Nibbles are intent on a big move it will surely be tomorrow. I suspect that Evans is pretty much intent on saving what he's got, and might even fancy his chances of overhauling Nibali in the TT.


 
I dunno - Hincapie and Cummings aren't going off for fun. Today is the hardest day so any sign of weakness can be exploited to biggest advantage. If Evans wants to tin the TdF he has to force something today because whatever time gaps you can open on the uphill at the end tomorrow, they won't be the 4 or 5 mins he needs on Wiggo. 
I suspect the reality is Nibali is quite happy with 3rd and will want to find a way to open time on Cadel because as you say he will expect to lose time to him in the TT. It will be tricky given Sky will aggressively defend Froome's position against Nibali. More likely a move tomorrow for Nibali.
I hope Cadel will be feeling that 4'th is a pointless position for a tour winner so have a go.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Evans is a fighter and will always try his best. Whether he's got enough in the tank to pull something off is another matter.


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

Tommy V sprinting for the mountain points !


----------



## Nearly there (18 Jul 2012)

Good to see Cav at the front with the rest of sky


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Sherwen has predicted Wiggins to win today's stage. Interesting. Would love to see it happen.

d.


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

Unlikely ... he needs to save a bit in case Nibbles attacks like a mad bastard on the descent from the Port de Bales tomorrow ?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

I was hoping for a bit of an attack early on, the sooner Nibali and / or Evans started making Sky work the better off they would be. No one has really made Wiggins have to work for this win yet. I get the impression they are settling for a possible 3rd spot. Bit duff really.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

If the big contenders are all together near the finish, he might fancy a dig, just to show he can. He did it at Romandie, although that was a flat sprint.

Edit: just checked - last 2.5km are completely flat, so if they're all together by then, he may well fancy it. It would enhance his credibility in the yellow jersey to win a road stage as well as a TT.


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Unlikely ... he needs to save a bit in case Nibbles attacks like a mad bastard on the descent from the Port de Bales tomorrow ?


I make you right. There's no room in that team for sentiment.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Good to see Cav at the front with the rest of sky


I think Cav's sketching out his future as a GC contender in GTs.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (18 Jul 2012)

Camera bike got a bit caught out on the descent

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I think Cav's sketching out his future as a GC contender in GTs.


 
so used to following Bernie around he hasnt spotted they are at the front of the peloton ?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2012)

Off topic, but the Pyrenees are looking absolutely stunning today.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Off topic, but the Pyrenees are looking absolutely stunning today.


Agree, and I'd say that's absolutely _on _topic.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Yup, stunning. Makes me want to get out on my bike and find a Very Big Hill to ride up.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Camera bike got a bit caught out on the descent
> 
> Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


Cavendish has been dropped oot the back.

edit...sorry, replied to wrong post there....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I'm wondering whether Nibali will attack on the last climb and try to solo it down to the finish ahead of the peloton to gain a 30 seconds or a minute... this kind of stage suits him. The thing is that even being a great descender you never get that much on a descent.


----------



## Asa Post (18 Jul 2012)

So pleased to see Laurens ten Dam at the front. He usually wastes his energy on behalf of a team leader who isn't good enough to profit from it, but now Rabobank are reduced in numbers he has a free role today.

Anyway, he's on Strava so he must be one of the good guys


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Scarponi and Peraud have cracked already half way up the Tourmalet. Surprised at Scarponi.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

The stage win is going to be interesting today, as far as the GC race, it's pretty much all over, any possible catch up opportunity has more or less gone with the discarded bidons. A bit surprising really, maybe sky got the cheque book out during the rest day.....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Wait for it. We aren't even half way in terms of the peaks today...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Sky shredding the peloton down to 30-35 and Sagans still with em.


 
I thought he was off the back already... but you're right, there he is!


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Sky shredding the peloton down to 30-35 and Sagans still with em.


 
Is he? You may be right, but the official website has him off the back.

d.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> . Surprised at Scarponi.


 Perhaps Frank was his supplier.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

If Phil'n'Paul say it, it must be true!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I just saw him in the peloton a few minutes back on the Eurosport footage which I am streaming at work... the cyclingnews commentry did say he was off the back earlier.


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

Voeckler briefly in virtual polka dot.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I can confirm that I have just seen Peter Sagan (57, in Green) in the Wiggins group.


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

Kessiakoff back in polka dot by 3 points - if my rythmetic holds...


Edit: Ditch that, got confoozed. Kessiakoff still leading by 15 points


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I think that's right. Although he's going to lose it to Voeckler at this rate. But can Voekler really hang on until the end? I am not so sure. I think he'll crack on one of the next two climbs.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Maybe 2 climbs still to go, but they are less long and less steep. A decent effort by 2 or 3 riders on the Tourmalet would maybe have allowed them to go over the summit ahead and with a good clear unrestricted descent to put some time in and forced sky to up the pace and maybe make things interesting. I think any contenders have now rolled over.
The tour is now about the polka dot and nothing else, barring catastrophes.
Hope I am wrong, but.....


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

I guess it depends on which of the two cracks first. I think Tommy will.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Sky aren't going to do anything unless another GC contender makes a move. Hincapie is getting bandaged on the move after coming off. If Cadel is going to make a move, he hasn't got many more opportunities and Big George is looking a bit bashed up now...​


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sky aren't going to do anything unless another GC contender makes a move. Hincapie is getting bandaged on the move after coming off. If Cadel is going to make a move, he hasn't got many more opportunities and Big George is looking a bit bashed up now...​


Exactly, why do sky need to make an effort when a lack of any decent assaults does the job for them, all they need to do is pedal.
I'm away out on my bike now.....


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Tommy V and Chris Anke S are joint winners of the gurning competition


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I guess it depends on which of the two cracks first. I think Tommy will.


 

Nope! Kessiakoff blows first!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Kessiakoff was gone a while back. It's all Feillu and Voeckler now.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Meanwhile back in the peloton, the only thing that's happening is gradual attrition...


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Does Voeckler have any of:
a) race radio ?
b) heart rate monitor ?
c) power meter ?
d) speed/distance computer ?


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Kessiakoff was gone a while back. It's all Feillu and Voeckler now.


 
The perils of following an online transcripts...

It seemed until recently that Kessiakoff was in a position to launch an counterattack - and now that is no longer the case. Which means he will lose points on the last two climbs to Voeckler.

Feillu is not in the polka dot hunt, is he?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Feillu is not in the polka dot hunt, is he?


 
No, not at all. He's up there for the stage win, I guess. I wonder if Voeckler will let him have it. He isn't usually the kind of guy to do that though...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

This is absurd. Sky have still got Knees, Rogers, EBH, Porte and Froome with Wiggins. They haven't had to shed a single climbing domestique yet. There has just been no challenge so far today.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

here we go LIQ


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

10 points for the last 2 summits apparently which would mean TV taking over the jersey assuming Kessiakoff takes none.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Sagan is_ finally_ dropping off the back.


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> 10 points for the last 2 summits apparently which would mean TV taking over the jersey assuming Kessiakoff takes none.


 According to official website Kessiakoff at 103, Voeckler at 87.

Is that 10 points each summit?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Couple of Liquigas boys upping the pace but not with any conviction.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Liquigas are really stepping up the pace now. EBH has done his stint and dropped off. Maybe it'll all kick off on the final climb...

d.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> According to official website Kessiakoff at 103, Voeckler at 87.
> 
> Is that 10 points each summit?


 yes


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Love watching Voeckler descend...


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

the aspin up that way is too easy to launch an attack - it'll be for nibali on the descent and then the peyresourde


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Evans has gone!


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Evans cracking?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Evans has cracked!


----------



## aJohnson (18 Jul 2012)

Wow, Evans starting to drop off.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

The thing is that it's Basso setting the pace now, and he's just going to do exactly the same kind of job as Sky's domestiques, which suits Wiggins more than anyone.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Where's Tejay?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

We saw the same thing from Liquigas in the Giro where their tactics basically played to Hesjedal's strengths.


----------



## VamP (18 Jul 2012)

OK here'a question for the forum:

At the Giro Szmyd did an awesome job for Liquigas in the mountains, pulling Basso (and Hesjedal) up one hill after another. Why is he almost invisible at the this Tour?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Where's Tejay?


 
I'll look out for him, but I haven't seen him so far.


----------



## aJohnson (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> OK here'a question for the forum:
> 
> At the Giro Szmyd did an awesome job for Liquigas in the mountains, pulling Basso (and Hesjedal) up one hill after another. Why is he almost invisible at the this Tour?


 
Possibly because he was at his peak at the Giro? And he's just not at that level for the TdF.


----------



## LosingFocus (18 Jul 2012)

Evans feeling it today


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> OK here'a question for the forum:
> 
> At the Giro Szmyd did an awesome job for Liquigas in the mountains, pulling Basso (and Hesjedal) up one hill after another. Why is he almost invisible at the this Tour?


 The TdF has a better quality field than this years giro


----------



## RhythMick (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This is absurd. Sky have still got Knees, Rogers, EBH, Porte and Froome with Wiggins. They haven't had to shed a single climbing domestique yet. There has just been no challenge so far today.



Has everyone just given up ?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The thing is that it's Basso setting the pace now, and he's just going to do exactly the same kind of job as Sky's domestiques, which suits Wiggins more than anyone.


Sort of but actually Sky had no interest in pushing hard - sure it suits Wiggo but this move is now securing 3rd place against potential TT losses to Cadel


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'll look out for him, but I haven't seen him so far.


 
Tejay _might_ be sitting back in 7th or 8th wheel in the peloton, but it's hard to see from the overhead shots. He's definitely in this group though.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Maybe Nibali is planning an attack on the descent?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Is that 10 points each summit?


 
25pts for HC summits, 10pts for 1st cat, IIRC.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali is after 3rd place in Paris.

Sh* t - I just dozed off in front of the telly - bloody 'ot down here.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (18 Jul 2012)

Really hoped that Liquigas might have tried earlier to have opened up some gap and cannot see them gaining enough on the Peyresourde.

Sky are just too strong.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

To be honest, I'm happy to sacrifice an exciting tour for a first time British winner. This year only, mind you.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Vino and Sorensen slowly coming back to Voeckler and Feillu... Really don't want Vino to win this. Oh, Jens too! A Voight win would be awesome, but I can't seem him staying with them on the last climb.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

I like Vino


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I like Vino


 I like Italian wine but not Vinokourov!


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I like Vino


 
Yes, despite everything, I do enjoy watching him. Rooting for Brice Feillu today though.

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yes, despite everything, I do enjoy watching him. Rooting for Brice Feillu today though.


 
I like the way he rides, but I can't help thinking that he's one of the most cynical riders out there. Also rooting for Feillu.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Evans now has three teammates dragging him back on.


----------



## PaulB (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Call me an old cynic by all means, but I can't help feeling the Torygraph has swallowed the Sky publicity machine's output without any kind of questioning. Yes I hope that Sky stays united as a team, and continues to work for Brad and a Cav stage win in Paris, just as I hope there are no more drug related "suspensions"..... but I fear it may not be the case.


You old cynic.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

How much time does Evans put into Nibali in a TT?


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Van Den Broeke was 1 min 29 behind Evans before the stage. Can Lotto make big inroads ?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

Presumably Tejay wasn't in the peloton or he'd have been called back to help Cadel by now, surely?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Presumably Tejay wasn't in the peloton or he'd have been called back to help Cadel by now, surely?


 
No, he is. He's obviously been told, or decided, to defend the white jersey.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Evans is back on anyway. Just in time for the next climb!


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

If 3 can't pull Evans up the hill then 4 won't either, so it makes sense to keep the white jersey


----------



## dellzeqq (18 Jul 2012)

the TdF site is saying that BMC are now chasing the white jersey, and not the yellow

(edit) Cadel now back with the yellow jersey group. He's a tough item!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Evans back now, but he used team mates. Surely he'll get dropped on the final climb though.


----------



## MichaelM (18 Jul 2012)

T.V. makes a move.


----------



## MichaelM (18 Jul 2012)

Can he stay away from C.A.S. and Vino?


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

those km summit signs can be very dispiriting


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Court of Arbitration for Sport has caught Feillu


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Bye bye Cadel.


----------



## aJohnson (18 Jul 2012)

And Evans goes off the back once again...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Yup, he's off again. Leipheimer, Monfort and many others again too.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Sky can end up with the yellow helmets by Paris. RNT are dropping like flies, TT still to come and what happens to Mr Schlecks placings ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Voeckler out on his own. Can anyone come up to him now?


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Sky can end up with the yellow helmets by Paris. RNT are dropping like flies, TT still to come and what happens to Mr Schlecks placings ?


 I assume they stand as he left of his own accord and wasn't thrown out


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Voeckler out on his own. Can anyone come up to him now?


Seriously, he has no team radio and no computer with him - he's completely reliant on info from those motos as to the time gaps.
What a ride this is turning into ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Liquigas, Lotto and Sky almost looking like they are working together on the front of the peloton... Evans now over a minute down, almost a minute and a half, and it's still going out.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

You have to love Tommy


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Rolland losing touch!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> I assume they stand as he left of his own accord and wasn't thrown out


4 days for the b sample to be tested but even then it is true it may take a while to sort out.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali accelerates!


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Mr Nibbles has a bite


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Nibs goes


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Froome and Wiggins go together to follow.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Everyone else is dropped. Everyone.


----------



## aJohnson (18 Jul 2012)

He'll be caught quickly


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali isn't getting away.


----------



## LosingFocus (18 Jul 2012)

Finally Nibbles has gone, Froome and Wiigo go after him.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

dragging him back


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali stepping on it, but he isn't going anywhere.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Wiggo is a real spinner


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Froome goes past to make a point.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

J vdB couldn't stick with the pace


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Keeping Nibali boxed in between them.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Voeckler is on the descent already, and doing his usual fearless job.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (18 Jul 2012)

8 minutes to the top. Nibali may get left behind if Froome keeps going!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I guess Nibali is going to have to try to attack on the descent, but he isn't going to get much that way.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

I am really admiring Sorensen's ride here too.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

CAS has done really well but TV is uncatchable unless he crashes


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Evans is almost 4 minutes behind Froome/Nibali/Wiggins now.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali tries again.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Wiggins pulling him back.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Nice one Wiggo


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Fair play to Nibali for at least having a go


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

That was a race leader's response.


----------



## Nearly there (18 Jul 2012)

Nibali must be impressed with wiggo n froome


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Tejay, VdB, Zubeldia almost a minute behind.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (18 Jul 2012)

Watch that Wiggins go...great stuff!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Thank god for Tommy V, making things interesting today


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Nibali must be impressed with wiggo n froome


 
Impressed? He'll be farking fuming!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Thank god for Tommy V, making things interesting today


 
Oh, come on, the battle between the GC contenders on that last climb was great to watch in itself. Without artifical aid, we are never going to see insane attacks from the leaders again, I'm afraid. We're watching people on their limit balancing survival against the chance of winning something.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Nibs will consolidate 3rd


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Evans 5 minutes back now. He is clearly knackered.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Fantastic old-school win for Voeckler. Stop looking behind, there's no-one there, Tommy!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Attaboy Tommy.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Oh, come on, the battle between the GC contenders on that last climb was great to watch in itself. Without artifical aid, we are never going to see insane attacks from the leaders again, I'm afraid. We're watching people on their limit balancing survival against the chance of winning something.


Maybe aye, but still be nice to see an all or nothing attack.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

OT, why does Tommy V think the peloton dislike him?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> OT, why does Tommy V think the peloton dislike him?


 
It's not just that he thinks it, there is a feeling from some that he is a prima donna, demanding too much of breakaway companions etc.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Gutsy stuff today.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's not just that he thinks it, there is a feeling from some that he is a prima donna, demanding too much of breakaway companions etc.


 Ah, okay thanks.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Vino's pulled a cleat


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Feillu crawls over in 5th. Sorry for him, but it's still a fine comeback.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Amazing to see the Top 3 on GC locked together coming in to the finish!


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Vino's pulled a cleat


 I told you he was a cleating b*stard


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Amazing to see the Top 3 on GC locked together coming in to the finish!


and as you said, great to see Brad himself chase Nibs down on the summit


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Cadel loses 4 1/2 minutes to wiggo


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

Tomorrow then... last chance for the climbers. And given that maybe we'll see VdB, or one of the others just below the podium places, have a proper go.


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Pierre Rolland tomorrow ?
Edit: actually unlikely to be let in a breakaway at 10 mins down on GC


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

Van Garderen now in front of Evans on GC


----------



## Nearly there (18 Jul 2012)

What happens to all the yellow Jerseys wiggins signs?and ive just seen voeckler do it to the mountain jerseys


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

get handed out to VIPs I think


----------



## iLB (18 Jul 2012)

Col de Peyresourde (9.5 km, 6.9 %, 657 m). Nibali, Wiggins, Froome: 24 min 28 sec, 23.30 Kph, VAM 1612 m/h, 5.99 W/kg


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Col de Peyresourde (9.5 km, 6.9 %, 657 m). Nibali, Wiggins, Froome: 24 min 28 sec, 23.30 Kph, VAM 1612 m/h, 5.99 W/kg


Got the figures for Voeckler?


----------



## iLB (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Got the figures for Voeckler?


 
Here they are, Col de Peyresourde (9.5 km, 6.9 %, 657 m). Voeckler: 26 min 11 sec, 21.77 Kph, VAM 1506 m/h, 5.59 W/kg

From here https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

cheers iLB


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Col de Peyresourde (9.5 km, 6.9 %, 657 m). Nibali, Wiggins, Froome: 24 min 28 sec, 23.30 Kph, VAM 1612 m/h, 5.99 W/kg


 
Same W/kg figure for all three?

Even though (acording to the internet)...
Nibali = 64kg
Wiggins = 69kg
Froome = 72kg

Plus the fact that Wiggins was sheltering behind Froome for most of the climb...

d.


----------



## andrew_s (18 Jul 2012)

Yes, same W/kg for same time on same climb. Weight cancels out.
Actual watts per rider will vary depending on winds, drafting, but the W/kg figures ignore these.

Energy used = Mass x height x g
Average watts = Energy / time
Watts per kg = Average Watts / Mass = gh/t (g=9.81, h in metres, t in seconds)


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2012)

andrew_s said:


> Weight cancels out...
> 
> Energy used = Mass x height x g
> Average watts = Energy / time
> Watts per kg = Average Watts / Mass = gh/t (g=9.81, h in metres, t in seconds)


 
OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

d.


----------



## PpPete (18 Jul 2012)

Assuming that Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are all pretty close to their limit, 5.99 W/kg would suggest that either they are clean, or whatever "preparation" any of them are using is not giving them much advantage?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Assuming that Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are all pretty close to their limit, 5.99 W/kg would suggest that either they are clean, or whatever "preparation" any of them are using is not giving them much advantage?


 
Yup.


----------



## raindog (18 Jul 2012)

And they mentioned the other day that, so far, this Tour has a similar average speed as ones in the mid 80s - even though there's been bad news this last couple of days, it looks as if we're getting there.


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Assuming that Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are all pretty close to their limit, 5.99 W/kg would suggest that either they are clean, or whatever "preparation" any of them are using is not giving them much advantage?


 
I think them being on or very near their limit is a pretty safe assumption. If Nibali had anything left he'd have gone, and if Wiggins / Froome did they'd have carried on past him after his last dig.


----------



## iLB (18 Jul 2012)

Bit of a blunt tool for comparison but here are some other VAM's for the great climbers on different climbs http://i.imgur.com/s5pYc.png


----------



## Smokin Joe (18 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> And they mentioned the other day that, so far, this Tour has a similar average speed as ones in the mid 80s - even though there's been bad news this last couple of days, it looks as if we're getting there.


And when you consider the bikes they are using now are considerably lighter and with three more sprockets than the eighties bikes it does indeed point to the fact that large scale doping is no longer prevalent.


----------



## swansonj (18 Jul 2012)

andrew_s said:


> Yes, same W/kg for same time on same climb. Weight cancels out.
> Actual watts per rider will vary depending on winds, drafting, but the W/kg figures ignore these.
> 
> Energy used = Mass x height x g
> ...


But, at 23 kph, aren't they expending 10% or more of their power against wind rather than gravity? Presumably the W/kg calculation makes an assumption about the drag coefficient - does it assume the same for all of them, or a cyclist-specific figure? I don't know how much the drag coefficient varies between cyclists who are all wearing similar clothes and adopting similar postures. Apologies if this has all been debated somewhere already.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (18 Jul 2012)

swansonj said:


> But, at 23 kph, aren't they expending 10% or more of their power against wind rather than gravity? Presumably the W/kg calculation makes an assumption about the drag coefficient - does it assume the same for all of them, or a cyclist-specific figure? I don't know how much the drag coefficient varies between cyclists who are all wearing similar clothes and adopting similar postures. Apologies if this has all been debated somewhere already.



If your going with drag then wiggo would be putting out more relative power due to the burns

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Bit of a blunt tool for comparison but here are some other VAM's for the great climbers on different climbs http://i.imgur.com/s5pYc.png


 
"Mr 60%", Bjarne Riis, being up in second there is the biggest joke of all.


----------



## Chuffy (18 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Bit of a blunt tool for comparison but here are some other VAM's for the great climbers on different climbs http://i.imgur.com/s5pYc.png


Wow. Not an inspiring group of chaps is it?


----------



## Slaav (18 Jul 2012)

Did I not see Froome shake his head and gesture for Wiggo to go after Nibbles on his last attack near the top?

The attack before they just calmly put their heads down and Froome went after him with Wiggo tucked in behind. This time though, either Froome was not quite up to it or felt that Wiggo should do some work himself  ??


----------



## thom (18 Jul 2012)

Slaav said:


> Did I not see Froome shake his head and gesture for Wiggo to go after Nibbles on his last attack near the top?


Yep


----------



## buddha (18 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> If your going with drag then wiggo would be putting out more relative power due to the burns


No, 'the burns' are either the result of months of wind-tunnel testing to break-up the "boundary layer" drag around his bonce, or they are specifically grown to catch tail winds for an extra boost - as he's so skinny. Or both.


----------



## gb155 (19 Jul 2012)

Slaav said:


> Did I not see Froome shake his head and gesture for Wiggo to go after Nibbles on his last attack near the top?
> 
> The attack before they just calmly put their heads down and Froome went after him with Wiggo tucked in behind. This time though, either Froome was not quite up to it or felt that Wiggo should do some work himself  ??


Yeah that's what I saw too 

Froome dog was either done or wanted wiggo to get his freak on


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> And when you consider the bikes they are using now are considerably lighter and with three more sprockets than the eighties bikes it does indeed point to the fact that large scale doping is no longer prevalent.


 You may find this rather interesting http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/7661/why-arent-tour-de-france-riders-going-any-faster


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> And they mentioned the other day that, so far, this Tour has a similar average speed as ones in the mid 80s - even though there's been bad news this last couple of days, it looks as if we're getting there.


 Or it could be down to a complete lack of interest from the sprinters teams


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

iLB said:


> Bit of a blunt tool for comparison but here are some other VAM's for the great climbers on different climbs http://i.imgur.com/s5pYc.png


 What ! No Virenque ? I am dissapointed


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

2007 is an interesting year, 2 times in iLB s chart Soler and the Peleton. Remember the drug crazed Rasmussen and Vino charging up the mountains, yet the slowest average speed for many years prior and since, even Sastre won in a faster time the following year. Hmm


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

So, why is this years average speed slower ?

I' ll make it easy for you.

A. The peleton are clean as whistle.
B. A semingly lack of interest from the sprinters teams.
C. Lack of credible challenger/challenge to the Sky Duo.
D. A combination of 2 of the above.

Answers on a postcard.


----------



## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2012)

buddha said:


> No, 'the burns' are either the result of months of wind-tunnel testing to break-up the "boundary layer" drag around his bonce, or they are specifically grown to catch tail winds for an extra boost - as he's so skinny. Or both.


wrong again! BC's HQ in Manchester has a wind tunnel specifically to hone 'interference' patterns , and the 'burns are specifically designed to create vortices that batter the rider behind, leaving him confused and exhausted. That's why you'll not see a Sky rider behind Wiggins.


----------



## captainhastings (19 Jul 2012)

Apart from the stage wins it is all rather quiet. Every one seems too have rolled over or just can't compete with sky


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

...... or shall we delve into the tactics of the breakaways tactis in relation to the peleton this year ?


----------



## gavroche (19 Jul 2012)

bring back Andy Shleck and Contador I say. Wiggins is having an easy win this year.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

lukesdad said:


> A. The peleton are clean as whistle.
> Answers on a postcard.


 
I would have answered A but I do not know what a peleton is; I know what a peloton is tho. 

Do I win?


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

Seriously, you guys either:

A. know nothing about Grand Tours
B. have been watching a different Tour to me
C. know nothing about Pro Racing
D. All of the above


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

gavroche said:


> Wiggins is having an easy win this year.


an easy win? 
could _you _do it?


----------



## Simba (19 Jul 2012)

gavroche said:


> bring back Andy Shleck and Contador I say. Wiggins is having an easy win this year.


 
So you want Wiggo to compete against a dope user and an uber whinger?


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I would have answered A but I do not know what a peleton is; I know what a peloton is tho.
> 
> Do I win?


 Feck I was up early this morning frigging pendent


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

Simba said:


> So you want Wiggo to compete against a dope user and an uber whinger?


 
It would actually be two dopers, who whinge.


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Seriously, you guys either:
> 
> A. know nothing about Grand Tours
> B. have been watching a different Tour to me
> ...


 Your bullet proof vest is beginning to look more like one of yer string ones, ready for some more holes ?


----------



## martint235 (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> It would actually be two dopers, who whinge.


 When's Andy Scleck been done for doping?


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I would have answered A but I do not know what a peleton is; I know what a peloton is tho.
> 
> Do I win?


 A peleton is when a Brazilian footballer gets his first 100 goals, Noodles.


----------



## lukesdad (19 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> A peleton is when a Brazilian footballer gets his first 100 goals, Noodles.


 How does this spellchecker work again ?


----------



## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> When's Andy Scleck been done for doping?


 
He hasn't, though people assume he has because of the previous and current Frank situations.


----------



## Chuffy (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I would have answered A but I do not know what a peleton is; I know what a peloton is tho.
> 
> Do I win?


 Stop pedalling your piffling pedantry, you silly man!

Look - A is blatantly wrong (Schleck! That Cofidis bloke!). Plus, even the guys who are loudly trumpeting that climbing speeds are well down (Science of Sport, Vaughters etc) would stop well short of claiming that there is zero doping going on. Vastly reduced? Yes. Way down on the bad old days? Yes. Hugely encouraging progress since the early 00s? Absolutely. None at all? No.


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> A peleton is when a Brazilian footballer gets his first 100 goals, Noodles.


showing yer age again there, fella !


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Changing the subject slightly...

To what extent does the panel think the ability of the Liquigas team to compete has been affected by the fact that two of their key climbers also rode the Giro? I hardly recall seeing Sylvester Szmyd at all in this Tour, and Basso (who has had a stinker of a season all round, tbh) has faded very quickly every time the gradient has gone up. Of course, you don't have to think very hard to come up with plausible reasons why Basso might not be the force he once was.

I said at the time that I thought Nibali would have been a better bet for them at the Giro. A stronger, fitter Liquigas team might have made life much harder for Sky at the Tour, but Nibali's relative weakness in TTing was always going to affect his chances in the Tour. Kristijan Koren looks a really good prospect, and Sagan seems to be developing into an all-rounder in the Hinault/Kelly mould, but they don't have the strength in depth of Sky.

d.


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Stop pedalling your piffling pedantry, you silly man!
> 
> Look - A is blatantly wrong (Schleck! That Cofidis bloke!). Plus, even the guys who are loudly trumpeting that climbing speeds are well down (Science of Sport, Vaughters etc) would stop well short of claiming that there is zero doping going on. Vastly reduced? Yes. Way down on the bad old days? Yes. Hugely encouraging progress since the early 00s? Absolutely. None at all? No.


 
That Cofidis bloke - Di Gregorio, was arrested in relation to an old investigation wasnt he? Now to do with this year's performance. And Schleck says he was poisoned....

I think all we can really say with is that the climbing speeds this year and the calculated wattage/kg are not inconsistent with the leaders being clean.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Stop pedalling your piffling pedantry, you silly man!


 
I think you'll find it's _pendantry_.


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Changing the subject slightly...
> 
> To what extent does the panel think the ability of the Liquigas team to compete has been affected by the fact that two of their key climbers also rode the Giro? I hardly recall seeing Sylvester Szmyd at all in this Tour, and Basso (who has had a stinker of a season all round, tbh) has faded very quickly every time the gradient has gone up. Of course, you don't have to think very hard to come up with plausible reasons why Basso might not be the force he once was.
> 
> ...


 
I guess they had to put some of their strongest players in for their "home" tour...and it's thrilling to see Sagan coming through as a new all-rounder when things have been dominated by specialists for a while now. But overall I think Liquigas just havnt had the same focus as Sky and BC.
Project Rainbow Jersey for Copenhagen was years in the making and it seems like Project Yellow Jersey has been likewise, just everything sacrificed for that. Very difficult to imagine a hypothetical Italian World Champion acting as water carrier for his team?

Shame that that degree of focus and dedication has made the race less interesting to watch as a spectator sport though..


----------



## gavroche (19 Jul 2012)

Simba said:


> So you want Wiggo to compete against a dope user and an uber whinger?


 Who seriously tested him this year in the TDF? no one so far.


----------



## gavroche (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> an easy win?
> could _you _do it?


 Could he play petanque as good as me?


----------



## Chuffy (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> That Cofidis bloke - Di Gregorio, was arrested in relation to an old investigation wasnt he? Now to do with this year's performance. And Schleck says he was poisoned....
> 
> *I think all we can really say with is that the climbing speeds this year and the calculated wattage/kg are not inconsistent with the leaders being clean.*


Which is wot I sed.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> I guess they had to put some of their strongest players in for their "home" tour...


 
True, but it was a bit blinkered of them to regard Basso as their strongest player. Internal politics getting in the way of cycling.




> Project Rainbow Jersey for Copenhagen was years in the making and it seems like Project Yellow Jersey has been likewise, just everything sacrificed for that.


 
Will Fotheringham tweeted a link to a 2010 Guardian article the other day. As he said, the killer quote is the last one...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/18/team-sky-tour-de-france?CMP=twt_gu



> Shame that that degree of focus and dedication has made the race less interesting to watch as a spectator sport though..


 
I think there's been plenty of excitement myself, just not as much of it in the form of GC contenders slugging it out against each other in the mountains as there has been in the past.

d.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> showing yer age again there, fella !


 Feeling it too, Pete! My age, that is.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

You're not gonna get clean GC contenders slugging it out, time after time, km after km, day after day. What you will get tho is a fairer sport, a more interesting sport, a more tactical sport and healthier riders. And more riders being able to have their day.

You choose. Anyone who wants the former had be as well hold the syringe and push the products into the riders' veins.


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2012)

Right, Kessiakoff vs. Voeckler, round two.

Can Tommy sustain his sparkling form from yesterday, or has he won a battle only to lose the war?


----------



## martint235 (19 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> He hasn't, though people assume he has because of the previous and current Frank situations.


 That's what I thought. I know we're all scarred from recent years where we've respected riders and then increasingly found out that they are not using natural ability alone but I'd like to think as we move into what appears to be a cleaner environment for the sport, innocent until proven guilty will apply. And certainly guilty just be association shouldn't be the norm.


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

sh tty weather today


----------



## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

It's nice to see Sagan seem human and beginning to fall off the back.


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Will Fotheringham tweeted a link to a 2010 Guardian article the other day. As he said, the killer quote is the last one...
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/18/team-sky-tour-de-france?CMP=twt_gu
> .


Wow ! - got that right didn't he !



smutchin said:


> I think there's been plenty of excitement myself, just not as much of it in the form of GC contenders slugging it out against each other in the mountains as there has been in the past.
> d.


Don't get me wrong...I've been gripped by it. but for some it has lacked the raw excitement of the Contador/LA intrigue or Contador/Schleck and chaingate


----------



## threebikesmcginty (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I do not know what a peleton is


 
It's what you call that Brazilian footballer in a Ferrari.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

martint235 said:


> And certainly guilty just be association shouldn't be the norm.


 
You need to do a bit more reading up on the Schlecks.


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2012)

Zubeldia dropped!


Cue BMC attack to put some time into him?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (19 Jul 2012)

'king runner nearly took a couple of riders out there, what a maroon.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (19 Jul 2012)

Bit foggy...


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

This crap weather could make it very interesting if a risk taker were to take risks....


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

10 metres visibility in places according to the guy on the first motorbike


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Don't get me wrong...I've been gripped by it. but for some it has lacked the raw excitement of the Contador/LA intrigue or Contador/Schleck and chaingate


 
As per Noodley's comment, there's a reason why we're not seeing that kind of racing from the GC contenders.

Having said that, the Voeckler vs Kessiakoff polka dot subplot is fine compensation. And assuming that Tejay is now officially off the leash, I would expect to see him have a dig on the final climb today, just to consolidate his position in the white jersey and maybe climb one or two places in GC - Zubeldia already looks in trouble and Van Den Broeck doesn't have enough of a time cushion to allow him to escape, especially as Tejay is a good time-trialler. Another possibility is Tejay, VDB and Nibali working together to attack Sky. Froome is going to have to do a lot of work on Wiggo's behalf again today. We saw him almost crack on the final climb yesterday, so his podium place might even be vulnerable.

d.


----------



## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

Is that Nibali up front?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> This crap weather could make it very interesting if a risk taker were to take risks....


 
Nibali, for example? Almost on cue...


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

Yep, Nibali at the front group - he seems to have taken a wee risk on the descent in the crappy weather.

I'd like to see Casar taking this stage.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

So, Wiggo doesn't have the monopoly on sporting gestures. Chapeau, Mr Nibbles.


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

LOL - Nibs not wanted in that break - poor lad


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I'd like to see Casar taking this stage.


 
I'm beginning to worry about you and Sandy....


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

It's a bromance


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> I'm beginning to worry about you and Sandy....


 They both wear the same jersey too.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

Tommy again


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

he's a crafty bugger


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Liquigas are not letting the break go out today. Is Nibali is going to have one last go when it gets to the big one today... or are they just making absolutely sure he stays in a podium place?


----------



## fimm (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> So, Wiggo doesn't have the monopoly on sporting gestures. Chapeau, Mr Nibbles.


 I don't quite understand - did Nibali drop out of the breakaway so the polka-dot people could race without the GC guys getting in the way?


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

He dropped out so Sky didn't close the break down. That way they have a chance to get a stage win if they're able.


----------



## Dave Davenport (19 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> I don't quite understand - did Nibali drop out of the breakaway so the polka-dot people could race without the GC guys getting in the way?


 
More like a strategic decision, too much flat'ish coming up, allowing Sky to close the break down.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Might have been different if it had been on the final climb of the day, but at 100km out, he was on a hiding to nothing anyway if the breakaway riders weren't prepared to work with him.

d.


----------



## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

Voeckler once again.


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Kessiakoff doing his best, but Voeckler is stronger. He's also a canny little sod.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Kessiakoff's face after that last little sprint was a priceless sort of 'what the fark can I do?' look.


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Nibali is going to fight to the death today, and he could well upset the apple cart.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Sky have just had Porte and Cavendish go down. Porte is a serious loss to the climbing effort if he can't get back on, and he was still waiting for a new bike last time we saw him... Cav has already got back on the back of the bunch though.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Just goes to show - race not over yet... This could be an exciting afternoon.


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Just goes to show - race not over yet... This could be an exciting afternoon.


 
well yeah... it's now or never for Nibali.


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Just goes to show - race not over yet... This could be an exciting afternoon.


Yes. LIQ certainly showing an expression of intent. Although Froome said after the stage yesterday that Nibali wasn't going anywhere with his attacks,,I think he and Wiggo were stretched. And he has a handy time gap to 4'th to be able to afford to risk a bit more.


----------



## yello (19 Jul 2012)

I think we can assume that Voekler's knee is well and truly better.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> well yeah... it's now or never for Nibali.


 
Yup, slightly desperate and probably won't work, but at least he's going to go down fighting.

d.


----------



## VamP (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yup, slightly desperate and probably won't work, but at least he's going to go down fighting.
> 
> d.


 
In the immortal words of Randal P. McMurphy ''At least I tried, goddammit! At least I did that!''


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

I have not checked for a while, but IIRC Voeckler was not included in the French Olympic team other than as a Reserve. But Chavanel was. So with Chavanel looking to be crocked, will Voeckler be a dark horse late replacement for a bid for Gold for the French?


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## Crackle (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I think we can assume that Voekler's knee is well and truly better.


 Just the facial contortions to fix now.


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I have not checked for a while, but IIRC Voeckler was not included in the French Olympic team other than as a Reserve. But Chavanel was. So with Chavanel looking to be crocked, will Voeckler be a dark horse late replacement for a bid for Gold for the French?


Is there an update on Chavanel then ? I thought his ailment could be temporary. One reason he'll be in the team is cause hes the French TT champion (he was good in the prologue and TT) - not Voeckler's strength.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Some people were saying Chavanel's 'illness' was faked or exaggerated... I'm not sure the Olympic course suits Voeckler though.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Nice to see an attack from Valverde, could go all the way now. Nothing much else happening. Liquigas again barking more than biting...


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm not sure the Olympic course suits Voeckler though.


 
I'm not sure riding as part of a team suits Voeckler either.


----------



## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

Has Voeckler won the polka dot jersey now? Assuming he doesn't crash.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I'm not sure riding as part of a team suits Voeckler either.


 
True. He is a bit like the Nicole Cooke of men's cycling...


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## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

that descent was mental 

Costa nearly blew it just then


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Costa nearly blew it just then


 
Yeah, that was pretty damn close... lucky it wasn't on some barrierless edge section...


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Cracking effort by Dominik Nerz today. Expect Sky to snap him up when Liquigas fold at the end of this season...

d.


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## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

Why isn't Kloden helping Zulbedia?


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Vandendert goes...

I am really not sure that Valverde is safe yet.


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> Why isn't Kloden helping Zulbedia?


the DS says they're going for the team prize


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Cadel's cracked again.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Cadel's cracked again.


 
Not his year at all.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

VbB goes up after Vandendert...


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

It's all kicking off.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

It's back together again, but a really select group now.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Pinot goes but they all follow...


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## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2012)

ha! somebody painted tacks on the road!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Valverde only has 1.20 now - they could still get him.


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## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> the DS says they're going for the team prize


 
Isn't team done by the top 3 or so rider times? Or is top 3 timings of each stage?


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

Wiggo looked to be looking after Froome there ! Just a little.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Froome and Wiggins taking the lead on the descent... but Valverde will get this after all.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Mind you, Valverde does look absolutely knackered.


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

Nibs dropped


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Nibali and Pinot both falling off the back!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Froome in danger of dropping Wiggins again. But they get together and really go!


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## RecordAceFromNew (19 Jul 2012)

Froome's chance to take the stage!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Froome is urging Wiggins on, even though he could clearly go and catch Valverde.


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## aJohnson (19 Jul 2012)

I don't think there's any doubt that Froome could have won this TdF.


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## RecordAceFromNew (19 Jul 2012)

Froome looks like he has loads in the tank.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Pinot back with them. Great ride.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Valverde just has enough time, just.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Nibali loses a few seconds to VdB, but not enough to matter.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> I don't think there's any doubt that Froome could have won this TdF.


 
He'll have his opportunities. He's ridden a superb race, and kept his discipline.


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

And with that, all Wiggo and Froome have to do now is not fall off !


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## Nearly there (19 Jul 2012)

Is that the yellow in the bag then


----------



## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> I don't think there's any doubt that Froome could have won this TdF.


I think there's every doubt


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

That was a good stage. Riders coming in all over the place now...


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## Nearly there (19 Jul 2012)

I reckon froome could of took the stage if he hadn't had to slow down for wiggins


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> I think there's every doubt


Yes I'm in agreement with that. Froome has shown weaknesses occasionally and Brad's leadership skills are I think much underestimated.
But he's been key to the team and his day will come.


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## Slaav (19 Jul 2012)

The way it looked to me was that Wiggo was telling him to go (which he did) and then the radio may have calmed him down?

Better to guarantee the Yellow and Wiggo than potentially have him fall of thehill with 3K to go - not that he would have I am sure. Gaining time over Nibbles is surely better than trying to snatch the stage win...

It would have been amazing to see Wiggo start driving and the two of them clearly decide to go after the win for Froome or die in the process? But that would be risky?


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## threebikesmcginty (19 Jul 2012)

Great racing today, and some thought it was a dull tour!!!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> I reckon froome could of took the stage if he hadn't had to slow down for wiggins


 
Yeah, but his job was to make sure that Wiggins got to the line and secured the Yellow. That's what he did, superbly. If he had gone off on his own, Wiggins could have cracked and Nibali come back at him (if he hadn't cracked a bit himself). And once you've had a bad day like that, nothing is certain not even the stages which normally suit you.


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## montage (19 Jul 2012)

I'm wondering why Froome didn't go for the stage there - he could have closed that gap, and Bradley's lead was in no way in jeopardy with the TT still to come. Interested in the post race interview now!


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## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Froome is employed by Sky to do a particular job. He does it very well, but he's not team leader... yet.

Watching that, the only argument I could come up with in favour of letting him attack was to prevent Val.piti getting the stage win.

d.


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## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Can't wait to see Pinot, van Garderen and the other youngsters next year.


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## dellzeqq (19 Jul 2012)

there was a good reason for letting Froome go - he would have opened up the gap to Nibali, and given himself a bigger cushion in the TT


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

An excellent stage. Really enjoyed that.

Whatever happens, I sincerely hope for Wiggin's sake that this tour doesn't become known as the tour that Froome should have won. That'd be disrespectful. Wiggins is a talented and intelligent rider.

Also, I wonder if Froome was perhaps playing a little to the audience there?


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## LosingFocus (19 Jul 2012)

Can they extend this by another week? Enjoying it too much!


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## LosingFocus (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> An excellent stage. Really enjoyed that.
> 
> Whatever happens, I sincerely hope for Wiggin's sake that this tour doesn't become known as the tour that Froome should have won. That'd be disrespectful. Wiggins is a talented and intelligent rider.
> 
> Also, I wonder if Froome was perhaps playing a little to the audience there?


 
Be forgotten about when Froome wins next year...


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

Did anyone see the blood on Chris Anker Sorenson's handle bars? That must have been some tumble he took.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Also, I wonder if Froome was perhaps playing a little to the audience there?


 
I think he genuinely thought that they could both catch Valverde. They were probably being told he was slowing and looking tired. And they weren't far off.


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## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Be forgotten about when Froome wins next year...


 
Nah, Geraint Thomas is going to win it next year.


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

I actually feel sorry for Cadel Evans, and disappointed. It's been a tour to forget for him.


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## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Jalabert is saying that Froome's antics are just taking the piss. He should either accelerate and cream Brad, or pace him properly instead of dropping him on every hairpin and then looking back and waiting. Frankly it got on me bloody nerves today.


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## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I actually feel sorry for Cadel Evans, and disappointed. It's been a tour to forget for him.


 
I was gutted when I saw him dropping off the back again today. If I hadn't been watching surreptitiously at work, I would have stood up and started yelling encouragement at my screen. Clearly he hasn't been quite at peak form but his team have also let him down a bit.

d.


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## Dave Davenport (19 Jul 2012)

Froome is a fantastic talent but no one knows how he'd have handled the pressure of being team leader or 11 days in yellow. If, as expected there's much less TT kms and lots of climbing next year we could well find out then.


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

Two theories:

1) It was embarassing to let Froome go / Sky wanted to be conservative for the team / Wiggo wanted to be paced
2) Wiggo and Froome were talking over the Peyresourde, Wiggo gave him permission to go and Froome got earpiece orders to stay with Brad

Incompatible theories - I had thought 2) but Boardman seems to think 1).
Hmm, it will be interesting to see what they say in the interviews...


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Jalabert is saying that Froome's antics are just taking the piss. He should either accelerate and cream Brad, or pace him properly instead of dropping him on every hairpin and then looking back and waiting. Frankly it got on me bloody nerves today.


 
Frankly, Jalabert is being as stupid as all the the amateur commentators who don't get team discipline. Plus he doesn't seem to like Wiggins anyway.


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## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Did anyone see the blood on Chris Anker Sorenson's handle bars? That must have been some tumble he took.


 
ITV4 reported that he got his hand cut when it was dragged into his front spokes when the newspaper he was sticking down his jersey got caught up in the front wheel...ouch


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## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

It'll be interesting to see what happens next year if Wiggins wants to go for it again.
In the interview Wiggo said he knew it was in the bag on the last climb and concentration wandered. Unusual to see him so excitedly confident that he will win. I hope to God he stays upright.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

montage said:


> Interested in the post race interview now!


 
Brailsford has just said that it's all about team work, that's what this team is all about. And could the internet nobbers stop speculating and making things up.

edit - the first sentence is true.


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## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

And Wiggins view: He could see everyone was in bits, as did Froome, and they took it up at 3km to go....Brad "lost it a bit and became emotional" and "forgot about all that performance crap" - Froome was egging him on for more and more. Wiggins realised he didn't have to.

No mention from Brad about Froome asking to be let go, or him telling Froome to go. When asked by Ned Boulting if Froome could have won he replied "yeh", but then said he was otherwise caught up with his emotions.

Brad - "I have been surrounded by 7 incredible guys"


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Two theories:
> 
> 1) It was embarassing to let Froome go / Sky wanted to be conservative for the team / Wiggo wanted to be paced
> 2) Wiggo and Froome were talking over the Peyresourde, Wiggo gave him permission to go and Froome got earpiece orders to stay with Brad
> ...


Wow, hadn't considered :
3) Emotional breakdown !


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

"Chris'll have his day for sure, 100%, and I'll be there to support him."


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Frankly, Jalabert is being as stupid as all the the amateur commentators who don't get team discipline. Plus he doesn't seem to like Wiggins anyway.


He's coming round to respecting him now. He's just this minute interviewed him, and Brad was great. For me, Wiggins grows in stature day by day.
Jalabert was simply complaining about the _way _Froome was pacing Brad, not the fact that he was doing it. Too theatrical, and in the end it might diminish Brad's win. I agree in a way.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

If people read that really excellent report on how Team Sky works from the inside that was posted earlier, you'll see that the emotional management of Wiggins is almost a full-time job. He is really prone to mood swings and emotional twists and turns. And Froome's cajouling and shouting seems to have been exactly what he needed at the time... I enjoyed watching it too. It added something, sure, a little dramatic, but why not?


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

So there you have it. 

Not only is Brad and great cyclist, he's a great bloke.


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> In the interview Wiggo said he knew it was in the bag on the last climb and concentration wandered.


 
He said pretty much thing the same in French!

He paid Froome many compliments, acknowledged his role in the team, etc. Even said Froome's stronger in the mountains ("I'm just a chrono-man that can climb a bit. Not a real climber") He said he's a talent for the future but he hasn't had to handle the pressure of being a team leader, the press, the interviews, a TdF favourite, etc. Fair comments I thought. I was impressed by his diplomacy in fairness.


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## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

Froomedog was being a bit Froomepuppyish.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

One thing from Valverde's win today is that Movistar might just have covered their TdF costs. They were rock bottom of the prize list with about 3000 Euro, but I guess they will be able to pay for the petrol for the team cars, and the hotel rooms, now!


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Jalabert was simply complaining about the _way _Froome was pacing Brad, not the fact that he was doing it. Too theatrical, and in the end it might diminish Brad's win. I agree in a way.


 
So do I. I can certainly see the view point.


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

Superb interview with Froome (in French too!)

'All the team has made sacrifices. Cavendish sacrifices every day. The plan was to defend the yellow jersey'

That is some team spirit.'


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> He said pretty much thing the same in French!
> 
> He paid Froome many compliments, acknowledged his role in the team, etc. Even said Froome's stronger in the mountains ("I'm just a chrono-man that can climb a bit. Not a real climber") He said he's a talent for the future but he hasn't had to handle the pressure of being a team leader, the press, the interviews, a TdF favourite, etc. Fair comments I thought. I was impressed by his diplomacy in fairness.


 
Very true, and that's the bit that many seem to not realise when they claim Froome could have "easily" won the tour. He may have the ability but possibly not the maturity and nous that Wiggins has.


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## Scoosh (19 Jul 2012)

So what we need for 'the icing on the cake' is for Cav to win the Champs Elysée sprint - led out by the full team, with Wiggins giving it laldy like he did at the World Champs. 

That will be something !


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jul 2012)

"Yebbut, surely they must hate each other and even though we are about to get the first British winner of the TdF ever, some other guy is probably better, I mean Wiggins can't even climb moutains, and what has he ever won before anyway...?"

"Cycling fan, are you?"

"Not really, I only ever watch the Tour..."


----------



## raindog (19 Jul 2012)

Scoosh said:


> So what we need for 'the icing on the cake' is for Cav to win the Champs Elysée sprint - led out by the full team, with Wiggins giving it laldy like he did at the World Champs.
> 
> That will be something !


I reckon that could actually happen. If it does, you'll all have to excuse me while I jump about and shout a little bit.


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## yello (19 Jul 2012)

Scoosh said:


> So what we need for 'the icing on the cake' is for Cav to win the Champs Elysée sprint - led out by the full team, with Wiggins giving it laldy like he did at the World Champs.
> 
> That will be something !


 
Then don't forget to set your video recorder (or whatever it is you have these days!) because that is exactly what Sky are aiming to do! Wiggins said it a few days ago in an interview. That confident they don't even care who knows about it. A kind of show case finale. I'm sure Lotto will have similar plans for Griepel.


----------



## Smokin Joe (19 Jul 2012)

Scoosh said:


> So what we need for 'the icing on the cake' is for Cav to win the Champs Elysée sprint - led out by the full team, with Wiggins giving it laldy like he did at the World Champs.
> 
> That will be something !


Let's not tempt fate. Just one touch of wheels...


----------



## thom (19 Jul 2012)

I don't want to see Wiggo very involved in a lead out. Recipe for disaster. It would be class if he helped chase a breakaway but I reckon Bernie, Mick and Edvald in a designated lead out for Cav ought to be good value and lets leave it at that.
I mean Sagan doesn't need a lead out and he has the green jersey innit !


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2012)

That was a bit of a cycling how-to clinic by Wiggins and Froome today, good effort. Enjoyed seeing Voekler cement his hold on the KOM jersey too.


----------



## gavroche (19 Jul 2012)

I take back what I said earlier about Wiggins. Today, he and Froom proved that they are head and shoulders above the rest. Congratulations.


----------



## Red Light (19 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> In the interview Wiggo said he knew it was in the bag on the last climb and concentration wandered


 
His face on the BBC website news report says it all


----------



## PaulB (19 Jul 2012)

Don't know if this was raised earlier in the thread but has anyone been impressed by how unimpressed Britain is about what Wiggins is on the verge of doing? Look at the furore surrounding Murray getting to a Wimbledon final a couple of weeks ago and the publicity surrounding it. Compare that with the grudging 40 seconds Wiggins gets on the main news channels' sports reports. The open Golf gets more coverage and the mediocre goings on and speculation surrounding transfers at football clubs during the close season seems to be deemed more 'newsworthy' than the fact Britain is about to have the first Tour de France winner in its history. There's been virtual wall-to-wall coverage on the Olympics and I would guarantee that Wiggins' or Cavendish's gold medals at the Olympics will get ten times more publicity and coverage than the far more significant ride up the Champs Elysee. It's really annoying me.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> It's really annoying me.


 
Why?


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

It's a minority sport which very few of the general public care about or understand. Let's face it, there's a sizeable majority on CycleChat who feel that way too.
Personally it doesn't bother me or spoil my enjoyment.


----------



## just jim (19 Jul 2012)

The TDF has featured on the Today programme several days running, surely a sign of something. Or other. Weather - cloudy with rain.


----------



## MattHB (19 Jul 2012)

Great stage today. Managed to watch most of it at work on the iPad  thought froomey might have had the stage


----------



## marinyork (19 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> Don't know if this was raised earlier in the thread but has anyone been impressed by how unimpressed Britain is about what Wiggins is on the verge of doing? Look at the furore surrounding Murray getting to a Wimbledon final a couple of weeks ago and the publicity surrounding it. Compare that with the grudging 40 seconds Wiggins gets on the main news channels' sports reports. The open Golf gets more coverage and the mediocre goings on and speculation surrounding transfers at football clubs during the close season seems to be deemed more 'newsworthy' than the fact Britain is about to have the first Tour de France winner in its history. There's been virtual wall-to-wall coverage on the Olympics and I would guarantee that Wiggins' or Cavendish's gold medals at the Olympics will get ten times more publicity and coverage than the far more significant ride up the Champs Elysee. It's really annoying me.


 
The BBC has always been biased towards sports it shows (usually these days defined by the A-list). This isn't all bad for cycling, come the olympics we might have Cav/Hoy/various other people given a large amount of tv time.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

I almost forgot. Today's not-very-interesting fact of the day is that I am going to grow a pair of sideburns, and I encourage you all to do likewise.


----------



## just jim (19 Jul 2012)

Wiggins cracked today on the mountains.


----------



## MattHB (19 Jul 2012)

just jim said:


> Wiggins cracked today on the mountains.



 I'm not surprised tho!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2012)

just jim said:


> The TDF has featured on the Today programme several days running, surely a sign of something. Or other. Weather - cloudy with rain.



Quite. I've actually been impressed at how much media coverage the Tour has been getting - infinitely more than it usually gets. 

And friends and colleagues, even my wife, who never show the slightest interest in the sport are aware that something pretty damn big is happening. 

Most of the mainstream media are still demonstrating how little they understand the sport but I can live with that. 

Also, I think we can expect Wiggo, Froome and Brailsford to figure in the next New Year honours. 

d.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2012)

Excellent documentary about Wiggins on ITV4 now.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (19 Jul 2012)

What was the Hendrix track they played at the end of the itv4 highlights today?


----------



## Monsieur Remings (19 Jul 2012)

Superb effort all round by the Sky boys. Was lucky enough to catch them twice, once at the foot of the Col De Peguere (Stage 14 Limoux to Foix) where who was it on the front of the peloton as they passed through Massat? Cavendish! Also caught the main peloton coming through the small town of Maubourget on Stage 15. And my overrall impression, even though the tour is not over, is that Froome is an amazing rider. To take the stage he did, all those weeks ago, after such a furious domestique duty takes some beating for me.

Oh, and I came into Bagneres Du Luchon a mere 5 hours behind my French hero Tommy on this year's Acte 2 of the Etape du Tour, on Bastille Day!

Allez! Allez! Allez! It's been emotional.


----------



## Smokin Joe (19 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> Don't know if this was raised earlier in the thread but has anyone been impressed by how unimpressed Britain is about what Wiggins is on the verge of doing? Look at the furore surrounding Murray getting to a Wimbledon final a couple of weeks ago and the publicity surrounding it. Compare that with the grudging 40 seconds Wiggins gets on the main news channels' sports reports. The open Golf gets more coverage and the mediocre goings on and speculation surrounding transfers at football clubs during the close season seems to be deemed more 'newsworthy' than the fact Britain is about to have the first Tour de France winner in its history. There's been virtual wall-to-wall coverage on the Olympics and I would guarantee that Wiggins' or Cavendish's gold medals at the Olympics will get ten times more publicity and coverage than the far more significant ride up the Champs Elysee. It's really annoying me.


It's because cycling success isn't seen as anything remarkable after GB's dominance in the Olympic track events. Few people in the general public or the media understand that Chris Hoy's gold medals for sprinting are regarded as no more than a minor little curiosity in the world of cycling, or that the road and particularly the Tour de France are light years ahead of it in terms of prestige.


----------



## pally83 (19 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What was the Hendrix track they played at the end of the itv4 highlights today?



Spanish Castle Magic iirc

Back on topic, it was nice to see Wiggo finally agree with most of the commenters regarding a win.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2012)

pally83 said:


> Spanish Castle Magic iirc
> 
> Back on topic, it was nice to see Wiggo finally agree with most of the commenters regarding a win.


 He'd have been a hostage to fortune if he'd claimed victory before the last mountain stages.


----------



## Peteaud (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I almost forgot. Today's not-very-interesting fact of the day is that I am going to grow a pair of sideburns, and I encourage you all to do likewise.


 
We need photographic evidence.


----------



## Scoosh (19 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I almost forgot. Today's not-very-interesting fact of the day is that I am going to grow a pair of sideburns, and I encourage you all to do likewise.


Will they make me go faster/ climb better ? 

If so - wait till you see the size of sideburns I will need !


----------



## kevin_cambs_uk (19 Jul 2012)

Keep going Bradley, I am proud or be a cyclist


----------



## Andrew_Culture (19 Jul 2012)

pally83 said:


> Spanish Castle Magic iirc
> 
> Back on topic, it was nice to see Wiggo finally agree with most of the commenters regarding a win.



Thanks! That staccato crunch is the heaviest riff I've ever heard Hendrix play!


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

Bugger growing sideburns .... I'm going into business making false ones that clip on your helmet straps.


----------



## crisscross (19 Jul 2012)

I think Brad has been a disappointment since the prologue.

He really should have pulled his finger out and found those 8 seconds that would have given him the yellow jersey from first day to last! 

As much as I enjoyed the cobbled together documentary tonight I couldn't help thinking it was a tad premature, and nowhere in terms of quality compared to last night's incredible Vicky P tear filled revelations.


----------



## Peteaud (19 Jul 2012)

If Wiggins / Sky win, and i mean if then i think it will do the sport the world of good.

A clean TEAM, British riders, unthinkable.


----------



## Norm (19 Jul 2012)

crisscross said:


> As much as I enjoyed the cobbled together documentary tonight I couldn't help thinking it was a tad premature, and nowhere in terms of quality compared to last night's incredible Vicky P tear filled revelations.


I agree with that, the difference was particularly stark for me as I'd just finished watching a recording of the Vicky P programme when the Brad Show started.


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## MattHB (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Bugger growing sideburns .... I'm going into business making false ones that clip on your helmet straps.



We need CC bifters


----------



## PpPete (19 Jul 2012)

I know Sagan only has to finish to keep the Green Jersey, with Greipel & Goss too far away to challenge but anyone looked a bit further down the points table lately? Cavendish in 4th ....
But there are few people who are close enough to Cav now to take even that away from him. Or maybe not ?


1. SAGAN P. LIQ 356 pts
2. GREIPEL A. LTB 254 pts
3. GOSS M. OGE 203 pts
4. CAVENDISH M.SKY 130 pts
5. BOASSON HAGEN E. SKY 127 pts
6. WIGGINS B. SKY 124 pts
7. FROOME C. SKY 108 pts


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## ColinJ (19 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> I know Sagan only has to finish to keep the Green Jersey, with Greipel & Goss too far away to challenge but anyone looked a bit further down the points table lately? Cavendish in 4th ....
> But there are few people who are close enough to Cav now to take even that away from him. Or maybe not ?


I think as far as Cav is concerned there are two significant positions in competition - *won* and *didn't*!


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## Willo (19 Jul 2012)

I'm a worrier, so am not tempting fate by assuming it is all over. However, this is topping a real golden era for British cycling. Seeing a British 1-2 lead the Tour at the end of the mountains is something that was simply unimaginable until, well, now. Had trouble reconciling my conscience when I subscribed to the media empire that Sky is part of, but there's no denying that their sponsorship and the excellent team that has funded have combined to revolutionise British road cycling. Thought it was great to see the road painting dominated by Wiggo and co. today and spent most of time watching the highlights wishing I was there.

These are very special times and if it makes me, at 43, want to don my Sky top and haul myself up the North Downs, imagine what it is doing for a future generation of cyclists. Brilliant.

p.s. honourable mention to Tommy who also makes me want to don my Europcar top and pull funny faces as I huff and puff up to Wye Crown!


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## Slaav (19 Jul 2012)

4 of us were in an office this afternoon watching teh end of the stage.

All 4 thought they should have gone for the win. We all then agreed (when the proper cyclist explained) that why risk tomorrow or the GC for an ego win today?

After all, we have never ever got the GC before - stage wins are common place these days?


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## thom (19 Jul 2012)

Bradley in the post stage press conference : http://soundcloud.com/cycling-central/tour-de-france-stage-17
At the end he makes a fine few points of the persistent negative questioning of him.
Has any cyclist ever won Paris-Nice, Dauphine, Romandie and TdF in the same season ?
He came third in the Volto ao Algarve too. I don't recall him entering anything else.


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Has any cyclist ever won Paris-Nice, Dauphine, Romandie and TdF in the same season ?


No cyclist has not won the Tour after winning all the former events.


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## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> No cyclist has not won the Tour after winning all the former events.


So this makes him the best cyclist ever. ;-)
(assuming he doesn't fall off his bike between now and the Avenue of the Elysian fields).


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## Chuffy (20 Jul 2012)

Part of me wants to wander into the Clinic and moon the shoot out of half the residents.


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## stampedingviking (20 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Part of me wants to wander into the Clinic and moon the s*** out of half the residents.


Likely to get a 'holiday' for celebrating a Sky win!


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## Monsieur Remings (20 Jul 2012)

So, when will Froome's time come? I know that Wiggins was a gentleman when interviewed about his super-domestique stating that he would be there to support him winning the TDF at some point in the future, but will that be next year? Will Froome be tempted to jump ship if Team Sky don't pledge their support for him next season? Is this a premature assessment?

FWIW, I don't think it is..?


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## johnr (20 Jul 2012)

Dave Brailsford, the Sky cyclists and support staff have done an incredible job. When he announced his intentions to put a Brit on the top of step of the podium at the TdF in five years, I think even hardened cycling fans thought Lord Brailsford (pending) was perhaps a little too optimistic.

In a country that isn't run by old Etonians and sundry other blazered aparatchiks, he would be given free rein as head of sports development charged with making the structural changes which would replicate the achievements across the board. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him headhunted in the next few years by a nation less enamoured of patricians to do precisely that.

But for now, I'm treasuring the moment and looking optimistically forward to being further absorbed and delighted by more and perhaps greater achievements.


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## johnr (20 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> So, when will Froome's time come? I know that Wiggins was a gentleman when interviewed about his super-domestique stating that he would be there to support him winning the TDF at some point in the future, but will that be next year? Will Froome be tempted to jump ship if Team Sky don't pledge their support for him next season? Is this a premature assessment?
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it is..?


 I've been impressed by the independence given to the team to speak frankly to the media. They've all consistently repeated that they are following a team plan. The media, however, seem to be unable to report intelligently on anything. Their analysis of the honest appraisals they are given by the athletes is about as deep and relevant as that of the ins and outs of a c-list celebrity's love life.

I presume the Sky team will analyse the next Tour route and make their decisions accordingly. That may or may not be good news for Froome. But on the other hand, whilst he would certainly have won a few mountain stages, is there another team which would guarantee to keep him in yellow to Paris in the face of determined opposition from, say, Sky?


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## Monsieur Remings (20 Jul 2012)

johnr said:


> I've been impressed by the independence given to the team to speak frankly to the media. They've all consistently repeated that they are following a team plan. The media, however, seem to be unable to report intelligently on anything. Their analysis of the honest appraisals they are given by the athletes is about as deep and relevant as that of the ins and outs of a c-list celebrity's love life.
> 
> *I presume the Sky team will analyse the next Tour route and make their decisions accordingly. That may or may not be good news for Froome. But on the other hand, whilst he would certainly have won a few mountain stages, is there another team which would guarantee to keep him in yellow to Paris in the face of determined opposition from, say, Sky?*


 
I think you've hit the nail on the head there mate, this is the question that is worth considering. 

But, I think Froome has shown the sort of quality that defies the average logic of a good rider riding for another, more experienced, better rider. In the Vuelta last year, and this year in the TDF he has proven IMO, that he is a stronger rider than Wiggins and whilst Wiggins' TT was 35 seconds better than his team rival this small gap would have easily been made up by Froome in the mountains, where he has proven time and again that not only is he the central engine of Team Sky and that he is capable of pulling off stage victories when most domestiques in his position would have dropped off way before the finish, but that he has the power and talent to do even better. I appreciate that any team cannot have two main GC contenders however, but after this year where I believe Brad has it in the bag, a reappraissal may be required.

This year the glory belongs to Wiggins and his team that have done their job superbly. Next year, I sincerely hope that Froome is given the protection he so afforded Wiggins; a protection that without, I'm not so sure Wiggins would have been wearing yellow without.


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

johnr said:


> I've been impressed by the independence given to the team to speak frankly to the media. They've all consistently repeated that they are following a team plan.



The Stepford Cyclists?

I'm happy with the way they address the media at the moment because the team line seems to be from the heart (Cav has always sounded entirely sincere when thanking his team) but I hope they don't become so "professional" that we start getting footballer style platitudes and cliches. 

That said, I'm reasonably confident we won't because pro cyclists seem to be just that not more intelligent than your average footballer. (Biased? Moi?)

d.


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## PaulB (20 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's because cycling success isn't seen as anything remarkable after GB's dominance in the Olympic track events. Few people in the general public or the media understand that Chris Hoy's gold medals for sprinting are regarded as no more than a minor little curiosity in the world of cycling, or that the road and particularly the Tour de France are light years ahead of it in terms of prestige.


But that's bollocks. I don't mean your post, I mean it's bollocks if that's the case. My gripe is that Wiggins isn't getting a tiny fraction of the attention or credit he deserves. He is by us, of course but we're cycling aficionados. We may not be tennis, Formula 1, Cricket or Olympics aficionados but the main media outlets won't skimp on showing those sports. 

Apparently, the Times and Telegraph have gone a long way to rectifying that today but the BBC news! Nothing at all is mentioned about this HUGELY significant thing that's going on and is about to get bigger, during the hour-long programme but there's loads about the Olympics and loads about people we've never heard of or the British football team. The sports thread began with that scab presenter going on about the Olympic park, then came the Open, then came cricket and finally, less than one minute about Wiggins and his truly historic on-going achievement. Even on our local news (north-west) Lancashire-based Bradley Wiggins is the very last item on! 

It's nowhere near good enough and I'm surprised at the lack of outrage shown in this situation.


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

johnr said:


> That may or may not be good news for Froome. But on the other hand, whilst he would certainly have won a few mountain stages, is there another team which would guarantee to keep him in yellow to Paris in the face of determined opposition from, say, Sky?



Look at who else Sky have in their squad to answer that question - Uran, Thomas and Henao in particular. If Froome jumps ship, they'll crush him. 

d.


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## PpPete (20 Jul 2012)

Question about today's stage.... last year we might have thought "too lumpy for Cav", but it's not that different from the 'lympic RR so what are the chances of Sky giving this one a serious go?
Question for tomorrow...will Froome be so revved up that he can overtake Nibali on the road ?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

By the way, is it just me or is anyone else feeling emotionally volatile at the moment? I'm like an 8yo kid two days before Christmas. I just saw today's Equipe front page and nearly broke down in tears...


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Man, I'm going to find it very difficult to keep it together today if I see any more of this kind of thing...


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## gavroche (20 Jul 2012)

If it is not football,rugby,golf,darts,F1,tennis or cricket, the BBC is not interested. Thanks to ITV4 and its excellent commentary, for giving cycling a front page exposure in GB. There is a growing interest in cycling in this country now and it is about time too! Records speak for themselves about the TDF. Here is a list of all the countries who won the TDF since 1903.
France 36 times
Belgium 18
Spain 12
USA 10
Italy 9
Luxumbourg 6
Holland 2
Swiss 2
Australia 1
Denmark 2
Germany 2
Ireland 1

As you can see, GB has a long way to go to catch up but they are going the right way now.


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## bof (20 Jul 2012)

I don't watch BBC News on TV much so can't comment about that, but I think his ride has got more coverage and gained more attention than you think.
For instance an article about Herne Hill "where WIggo started racing" on the Today Programme this morning.
Last weekend I was at the Ealing Comedy Festival and when I put my bright yellow cycling jacket on to go over to the beer tent in the rain, the group of people sitting behind us yelled as one "Bradley Wiggins" - though hair that needs a proper cut and the yellow jacket are about all I have in common with him.


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## PaulB (20 Jul 2012)

gavroche said:


> If it is not football,rugby,golf,darts,F1,tennis or cricket, the BBC is not interested.


 
I've just sent a complaint to the BBC regarding their disrespectful lack of coverage of this truly historic event currently unfolding.


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## PaulB (20 Jul 2012)

bof said:


> I don't watch BBC News on TV much so can't comment about that, but I think his ride has got more coverage and gained more attention than you think.


 
No it hasn't. It most definitely hasn't. The programme about Bradley Wiggins last night was hidden away on ITV4. It wasn't on the BBC or the main ITV channel as this achievement is considered unworthy of our time.


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

You're listening to/watching the wrong bits of the BBC - they won't shut up about it on R5!

d.


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## pally83 (20 Jul 2012)

The sports fellas on Radio 2 have been getting quite animated about for a while - particularly Matt in the evening.


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## Beebo (20 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> I've just sent a complaint to the BBC regarding their disrespectful lack of coverage of this truly historic event currently unfolding.


 

The BBC have live text updates every day on their website from the stage of the race to the finish, they have live commentry on 5 live digital for the last hour of each stage and last night Radio 5 devoted an entire 30 min section to Bradley Wiggins.

I dont think they are doing too bad, bear in mind they dont have the TV rights, ITV and Eurosport do.


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## PaulB (20 Jul 2012)

Beebo said:


> The BBC have live text updates every day on their website from the stage of the race to the finish, they have live commentry on 5 live digital for the last hour of each stage and last night Radio 5 devoted an entire 30 min section to Bradley Wiggins.
> 
> I dont think they are doing too bad, bear in mind they dont have the TV rights, ITV and Eurosport do.


I don't 'do' text updates or look at their website. My complaint was specifically to their breakfast and local news programmes. I do think they are doing very badly indeed.


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## Auntie Helen (20 Jul 2012)

The Today programme on R4 has mentioned it daily - it's where my Mum gets her cycling knowledge from.


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## perplexed (20 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> I don't 'do' text updates or look at their website. My complaint was specifically to their breakfast and local news programmes. I do think they are doing very badly indeed.


 
Yes, it's not been that great on the general BBC news.

Which is exactly where it should be covered, as it's an opportunity to reach far more people who are otherwise unaware of what the hecks going across the Channel. And maybe going some way to show that cycling isn't all about "red light jumping, non road tax paying (I know) lycra clad louts etc etc..."


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## aJohnson (20 Jul 2012)

Hopefully there'll be more coverage if/when Bradley wins.


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## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Sat & Sun stages to be broadcast live on ITV1
My take on it more so is mild resentment of the increased media coverage of an event solely due to there being British coverage. The content tends to be shallow and unperceptive. My true impression was that in fact there is quite a lot of coverage this year - I want better, not more coverage. You can get very interesting reports if you make an effort yourself.
When Cav started winning hatfulls of stages or MSR, there ought to have been better coverage.
I fear that now cycling is doing well, we'll see something of the Wimbledon tennis fan phenomenon where the world and his dog take a look to see whether its worth waving a flag for 5 mins.


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## perplexed (20 Jul 2012)

Hopefully there will be a "fly on the wall" type documentary if there is a British win.

Even more hopefully, it won't be on BBC 3 at 11.45 pm on a Tuesday night.


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## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2012)

Monsieur Remings said:


> So, when will Froome's time come? I know that Wiggins was a gentleman when interviewed about his super-domestique stating that he would be there to support him winning the TDF at some point in the future, but will that be next year? Will Froome be tempted to jump ship if Team Sky don't pledge their support for him next season? Is this a premature assessment?
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it is..?


 
I have no idea what Froome will do next, but he has been impressive in a _nearly-there_ kind of way for quite a while.

I am uncomfortable with this_ 'next champion'_ talk or mention of someone _'deserving a win'_. I know that's not what people are saying, but some of the media tip-toe in that direction with Froome and get quite close to saying it. I am reminded of Colin Welland getting a little jingoistic after Chariots of fire won an Oscar...

(I should say at this stage that after a podium and a bad fall in the last two years, i was one of the many who didn't see BW as a TdF winner.)

Froome clearly has the needful, but many riders have served a long apprenticeship. The likes of Contador and Schlek bursting to the top at a young age are not really the norm. 

Although Lemond showed class at a young age, he did his time supporting a couple of top _Johnny Frenchman_ types. 

Indurain was extraordinary, but he did his support jobs (and did them rather well) before he got into his Schumacher years.

I will not be at all surprised if Froome has a win ahead of him, but I do not see him as someone who is being held back by the role he has with Sky. He is part of a long and proud line of racers who earn their ticket.

I like it that way.

Which other sport still considers you young at 25?


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

It's unfortunate that this years tour coincides with the London Olympics. The BBC has the latter and are doing everything they can to whip up interest so everything else is pushed backwards.


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Which other sport still considers you young at 25?


Bowling.


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## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> My take on it more so is mild resentment of the increased media coverage of an event solely due to there being British coverage.


 
I'm not too bothered by this - it's just how the mainstream media work. For non-cycling fans, the sport begins and ends with the Tour de France. It's certainly how I got into pro cycling - I've been watching the Tour since the mid 80s when C4 started covering it, but I've only spread my interest wider in more recent years since I've had regular access to Eurosport. We're a long way off getting mainstream coverage of things like Milan-San Remo. We should count ourselves pretty lucky that there was any coverage at all of Cav winning the World Championships last year. And chapeau to ITV for bringing us coverage of last year's Vuelta and the Revolution series. If they're now putting TdF coverage on ITV1, that's a seismic shift in public appreciation of the sport - for a commercial station to give its main channel over to a minority sport is quite exceptional.

As for the quality of the coverage.... meh. What do you expect? The papers can't even offer decent coverage of mainstream sports (most football writing in the mainstream press is pretty awful), so I wouldn't expect any great insight into minority sports.

If I want in-depth, perceptive writing on pro cycling, I'll read Lionel Birnie in Cyclesport. CW is good for news coverage. The discussion on twitter is interesting too, if you sort the wheat from the chaff - Inner Ring and Irish Peloton are well worth following.

d.


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## Chuffy (20 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Bowling.


Never trust a crown green bowler under 30.


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Never trust a crown green bowler under 30.


Does such a thing exist?


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

For Christ's sake Brad, don't tempt fate...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> For Christ's sake Brad, don't tempt fate...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins


Yes, all this talk about Froome as the next TdF contender makes it seem like it's already done and dusted. Let's hope BW's dreamy moment near the top of Peyregudes will serve as a timely reminder not to count his poussins...


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## thom (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> If I want in-depth, perceptive writing on pro cycling, I'll read Lionel Birnie in Cyclesport. CW is good for news coverage. The discussion on twitter is interesting too, if you sort the wheat from the chaff - Inner Ring and Irish Peloton are well worth following.
> 
> d.


Twitter is great - half the peloton are on there too.
3 things I've enjoyed:
1) the Heidi Swift blog about cycling the TdF one day ahead of the race. Truely awesome : http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Swift/content/22/1679/REVE-Stage-13-Friday-the-13th
2) The offerings on the Bicycling site, like Daily Tour Talk with James Startt and Frankie Andreu and also the Chris Horner diaries. He's had quite an epic race himself. But they don't ask the nasty questions
3) The daily round table Cycling Central podcasts.

There is so much good reportage out there if you're really interested.


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2012)

I am saddened that my not-very-interesting facts of the day do not get onto anybody's list of "must read" TdF pieces


----------



## Paulus (20 Jul 2012)

As I am well carried away now, who thinks Cav could round the tour off with a win in Paris, led out by Wiggins and Eissel?? I can dream


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

gavroche said:


> If it is not football,rugby,golf,darts,F1,tennis or cricket, the BBC is not interested. Thanks to ITV4 and its excellent commentary, for giving cycling a front page exposure in GB. There is a growing interest in cycling in this country now and it is about time too! Records speak for themselves about the TDF. Here is a list of all the countries who won the TDF since 1903.
> France 36 times
> Belgium 18
> Spain 12
> ...


GB may be only 2 behind the USA in the near future


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Bernard Hinault interview (in French) : http://tourdefrance.blog.lemonde.fr...-arretons-de-surproteger-les-jeunes-coureurs/
*Une réaction sur l'affaire Fränk Schleck ?*
Non, pas de réaction. J'en ai plein le cul, c'est tout.

Which I think translates to "No reaction. I've had an arseful of it, that's all."
 (just in case, he's not saying he's had an arseful of drugs btw....).


----------



## PpPete (20 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Bernard Hinault interview (in French) : http://tourdefrance.blog.lemonde.fr...-arretons-de-surproteger-les-jeunes-coureurs/
> *Une réaction sur l'affaire Fränk Schleck ?*
> Non, pas de réaction. J'en ai plein le cul, c'est tout.
> 
> ...


 
Doesnt like radios either, does he!


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## Nearly there (20 Jul 2012)

I think I more nervous of todays stage than yesterdays


----------



## ColinJ (20 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Bernard Hinault interview (in French) : http://tourdefrance.blog.lemonde.fr...-arretons-de-surproteger-les-jeunes-coureurs/
> *Une réaction sur l'affaire Fränk Schleck ?*
> Non, pas de réaction. J'en ai plein le cul, c'est tout.
> 
> ...


Google translation


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## asterix (20 Jul 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Which other sport still considers you young at 25?


 
Golf (I use a loose definition of sport to include it, very loose) I don't mind people playing golf so long as they don't ruin good land with golf courses or televise people playing it.


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## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

Froome needs to be on a different team in 2013, for his own sake.

Sky need Froome to be on a different team in 2013, for the sake of their team's cohesion.

I hope that it comes to pass (and amicably). The prospect of the Tour that could result is mouth-watering.

In the meantime... I predict that Wiggins will take 90 seconds out of Froome on the final, flat time trial.


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## raindog (20 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Bernard Hinault interview (in French) : http://tourdefrance.blog.lemonde.fr...-arretons-de-surproteger-les-jeunes-coureurs/


thanks for that - I know some people don't like him, but that's absolutely brilliant. Easily the best thing I've read on this year's race.


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## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Google translation


"No, no reaction. I'm pissed, that's all."

Typical French, drunk on the job...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Google translation


Was it just me who clicked into the translation first and had no idea what all that stuff about atria was?


----------



## Chuffy (20 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> Froome needs to be on a different team in 2013, for his own sake.
> 
> Sky need Froome to be on a different team in 2013, for the sake of their team's cohesion.
> 
> ...


Alternatively - Sky deliver on what they must surely have promised and give Froome leadership on a GT, up to and including the Tour. That's the deal Froome signed post-Vuelta and Wiggy has explicitly said that he'll ride for Froome. Why are people so desperate to make a drama out of the obvious?


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## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

Evald for stage win today?


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## Noodley (20 Jul 2012)

It's chat show cycling. It has happened to other sports and become the mainstream way, so it's only to be expected that as cycling becomes more attractive to people that they adopt the same approach as to sports they are more familiar with.


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## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> ...Wiggy has explicitly said that he'll ride for Froome...


When he doesn't think that he can win the Tour himself. The Vuelta is a good race, but in a rider's palmares it counts for little beside the Tour. Wiggins, with his awareness of the history of the race (not to mention how he must feel about 2011), will not want to be a one-time winner.

Besides which, given the different emphases of their talents, I'm not sure how much help Wiggins can be to Froome. Nor am I convinced that Froome is indispensable to Wiggins.


----------



## Chuffy (20 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> When he doesn't think that he can win the Tour himself. The Vuelta is a good race, but in a rider's palmares it counts for little beside the Tour. Wiggins, with his awareness of the history of the race (not to mention how he must feel about 2011), will not want to be a one-time winner.


Perhaps not, but it's going to come down to the course. Assuming 2013 is lumpier than this year and has less TTing I think he'll be realistic and accept that Froome would be the better bet. Besides, it's going to be a team decision and Brailsford has shown that he can be ruthless when required, just ask Chris Hoy.


----------



## Rob3rt (20 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> Froome needs to be on a different team in 2013, for his own sake.
> 
> Sky need Froome to be on a different team in 2013, for the sake of their team's cohesion.
> 
> ...


 
Leave it to Sky and the riders to decide what they need, they seem to have a good handle on it! All this speculation and bullshitting about Froome and Wiggo is worse than peoples copy and paste commentary throughout each stage!


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> ........ is worse than peoples copy and paste commentary throughout each stage!


Well, that's the end of this thread for me.
See you after the race guys, when it's just the usual posters in the racing section.


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## Crackle (20 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Perhaps not, but it's going to come down to the course. Assuming 2013 is lumpier than this year and has less TTing I think he'll be realistic and accept that Froome would be the better bet. Besides, it's going to be a team decision and Brailsford has shown that he can be ruthless when required, just ask Chris Hoy.


 
Yeah, we have to wait to see what next years course is but logic doesn't follow sometimes. Froome is younger than Wiggo, how many more realistic tour wins has Wiggo got in him. I don't know the answer, plus you've got to throw Cavendish in the mix, he's not going to do another tour like this.

Froome for the GC next year, maybe, Wiggo supporting him and Cavendish, maybe, could be a goer and Thomas back in as well. Nice to speculate.


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## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

what are we allowed to talk about?

 - maybe this guy's absence and recovery prospects?


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## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

I like that Wiggo, Froome and Cav ride bikes, because half the pundits on this thread are proving that the only thing they ride is this:


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## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2012)

All this talk of 'How many more tours does Wiggo have in him?'

Am I the only one who thought last year, two years ago and for many years before that that he didn't have one in him?

I think he's done remarkably well and has shown me and many others to have been hasty in the judgements we came to over many years.

He has a marvellous team around him and he deserves this success.

But really, how many people thought of him even as a single TdF winner at the start last year or in 2010?

Now we're asking how many he can win....


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## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> I like that Wiggo, Froome and Cav ride bikes, because half the pundits on this thread are proving that the only thing they ride is this:


 
Quite right.... But mine is in team colours, so my opinion is valid.


----------



## PpPete (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Evald for stage win today?


Wouldn't bet against it ....


----------



## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Wouldn't bet against it ....


I would. Please send me your money


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> All this talk of 'How many more tours does Wiggo have in him?'
> 
> Am I the only one who thought last year, two years ago and for many years before that that he didn't have one in him?
> 
> ...


You must learn to stop projecting what you think on to other people, that way you won't be surprised when they say something you haven't thought about.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> I like that Wiggo, Froome and Cav ride bikes, because half the pundits on this thread are proving that the only thing they ride is this:


 

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVDYYH1MLxo


----------



## srw (20 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> local news programmes.


 You're quite right. The Northwest regional news really ought to take more notice of the success of a Belgian-born Londoner who's racing in France.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

Just saw an interview with Brailsford on ES - he really is a calm, impressive character. Respect.

p.s. Am I allowed to say that?


----------



## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

All this armchair punditry is just so retarded.

'Cav won't put up with this again' - it's like thinking Balotelli would leave Man City because he is pissed off he didn't score the winning goal in the Premier League and isn't happy at being part of the winning team.

Similar for Froome.

Sky is a cycling TEAM and they race a season, not just the TdF. The TdF may be a big focus, but Sky are not USPS or Discovery, they do the whole season properly.

Cav may not be in green and may not have won loads of stages, but he's spent the year riding with what is essentially the olympic team. This year is all about that gold medal for him. As he said himself, he didn't win the rainbow jersey, he and his team won it...


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Quite right.... But mine is in team colours, so my opinion is valid.


 
Mine is on wheels, which surely makes my opinion more valid still


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> Cav may not be in green and may not have won loads of stages, but he's spent the year riding with what is essentially the olympic team. This year is all about that gold medal for him. As he said himself, he didn't win the rainbow jersey, he and his team won it...


 
Let's not forget that he came very close to winning the points comp in the Giro, and he did win the overall classification in the ZLM Tour. He's not had a bad season, and if he wins on Sunday and/or at the Olympics, that will become a very good season.

d.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

oh for a transcript of that conversation between Gilbert and the dog owner


----------



## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> I hope Cav gets it today.


He probably won't get it until after Sunday's stage.

...and Sagan looks far more capable of winning the Olympic road race.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (20 Jul 2012)

Paulus said:


> As I am well carried away now, who thinks Cav could round the tour off with a win in Paris, led out by Wiggins and Eissel?? *I can dream*


 
While not counting chicken, I have also been thinking about that. I wonder if there is going to be a super duper Sky train running in full gas from inside 3km, since by which time their #1 and #2 will essentially be in the bag, with a Yellow leading out the World Champ to the line, what a sight it is going to be! While Greipel and Goss will undoubtedly do all they can to stop Cav's 4th win in a row!

Or will Sky keep the powder dry and avoid the hurly burly for the Olympic? Mmmm somehow I don't think so.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> ...and Sagan looks far more capable of winning the Olympic road race.


 
Really? FAR more capable? Really?? Why would you say that?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> All this armchair punditry is just so retarded.
> 
> 'Cav won't put up with this again' - it's like thinking Balotelli would leave Man City because he is pissed off he didn't score the winning goal in the Premier League and isn't happy at being part of the winning team.
> 
> ...


 
what's the difference here then. Is this expert punditry is it. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.


----------



## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> You must learn to stop projecting what you think on to other people, that way you won't be surprised when they say something you haven't thought about.


 
This post contains so many instructions, prohibitions and imperatives that I'm not sure what it is I'm meant not to be thinking (or not meant to be thinking), what I ought to be doing and how I get there from last week.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> what's the difference here then. Is this expert punditry is it. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.


 

As has been explained, it depends on the calibre of your armchair. What have you got?


----------



## BrumJim (20 Jul 2012)

BBC feed giving me nothing, TdF web site only giving me average speed, and CC Forum degenerating into insults.

So, not much going on in Stage 18 at the moment?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> As has been explained, it depends on the calibre of your armchair. What have you got?


----------



## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> what's the difference here then. Is this expert punditry is it. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.


By no means do I claim expert status, but I don't think it takes an expert to recognize that cycling is a team sport and, Lance aside, there's more to a season than just the TdF


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

Don't pay any attention to Zimmers - I once had to explain the niceties of cricket to him.


----------



## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> Really? FAR more capable? Really?? Why would you say that?


TdF stage 13 seems like a pointer to me.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> By no means do I claim expert status, but I don't think it takes an expert to recognize that cycling is a team sport and, Lance aside, there's more to a season than just the TdF


Absolutely but it's fun to speculate and sometimes informative to read the replies.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

BrumJim said:


> BBC feed giving me nothing, TdF web site only giving me average speed, and CC Forum degenerating into insults.
> 
> So, not much going on in Stage 18 at the moment?


 
No, but stick around, we'll happily insult you as well


----------



## BrumJim (20 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Its flat, theres about 100Km to go and there's been a dog.


Flat? They've just come down a 100m descent. That's a serious hill in my book.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

BrumJim said:


> So, not much going on in Stage 18 at the moment?


 
16-man break a few minutes up the road. EBH is in there, along with Albasini, Vanendert and Adam Hansen, so none of Sky, Lotto or Greenedge are interested in chasing. Millar is also in the break. So is Jeremy Roy, just to keep Noodley happy. OPQS don't have a man in the break and are the only team in the peloton showing any interest.

d.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> TdF stage 13 seems like a pointer to me.


 
I don't think so. Box Hill x 9 40 miles from the finish is nothing like Mont Saint Claire 15 miles from the finish. I think Sagan may do well at the olympics, but I think Cav is more likely to do well.

And there's others who might win instead.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> 16-man break a few minutes up the road. EBH is in there, along with Albasini, Vanendert and Adam Hansen, so none of Sky, Lotto or Greenedge are interested in chasing. Millar is also in the break. So is Jeremy Roy, just to keep Noodley happy. OPQS don't have a man in the break and are the only team in the peloton showing any interest.
> 
> d.


 Not sure why Euskaltel were pushing it along


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

They don't have anyone in the break either.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

spectacular Dordogne scenery at least!


----------



## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> I don't think so. Box Hill x 9 40 miles from the finish is nothing like Mont Saint Claire 15 miles from the finish. I think Sagan may do well at the olympics, but I think Cav is more likely to do well.


Maybe. We'll see...


VamP said:


> And there's others who might win instead.


Oh, quite so. And yet you will only get 4-1 (at best) on Sagan. Even a donkey like Tyler Farrar only gets you 25-1. Bloody bookies - it's outrageous!


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> spectacular Dordogne scenery at least!


 
Yes, they've just been through Rocamadour, which I recognised from when I was on holiday there a few years ago. Gorgeous area.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> They don't have anyone in the break either.


 Yebbut, do they have a sprinter worthy of the name?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> Yebbut, do they have a sprinter worthy of the name?


 
Good point. Maybe they just had the sponsor on the phone instructing them to put in a token effort to get some TV exposure.

Liquigas seem to have taken an interest now - obviously fancy Sagan's chances again today.

d.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yes, they've just been through Rocamadour, which I recognised from when I was on holiday there a few years ago. Gorgeous area.


 It's a lovely place and area. There's a steep town at the confluence of the Dordogne and the |Veziers - Limeuix or some such.


----------



## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> Don't pay any attention to Zimmers - I once had to explain the niceties of cricket to him.


Only because we were talking pre war cricket, and you have first hand experience ;-)


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> Only because we were talking pre war cricket, and you have first hand experience ;-)


 Ha! That Hedley Verity could outbowl Alex Loudon any day though!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

1.26 to the boonch. Surely be caught


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

EBH animating the break


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> 1.26 to the boonch. Surely be caught


 
dunno, there's a lot of quality in that escape group


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Is the cut'n'paste commentary to which Rob3rt was referring?  Really, if some people get grumpy about people discussing the progress of the TdF on a thread about, err... the progress of the TdF, I don't know what they are here for...


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Is the *cut'n'paste* commentary to which Rob3rt was referring?  Really, if some people get grumpy about people discussing the progress of the TdF on a thread about, err... the progress of the TdF, I don't know what they are here for...


 Is that an anagram?


----------



## zimzum42 (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> Ha! That Hedley Verity could outbowl Alex Loudon any day though!


Loudon was too cool for England!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

So is the break going to stay away? Who's getting the win?

If it does stay away, I wouldn't bet against Albasini on a stage like this. But there are plenty in the break who are capable - lots of puncheurs - and I think we'll see attack after attack in the last 10km.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

I said no^^^ but VamP said yes


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

30km, 1min gap. Going to be tight.

Interesting to see Nick Nuyens in the break. I didn't realise he was even in the Tour this year until today. Expect he'll go for a long one.

I had a look at the final climb on Google Streetview the other day. It's not going to have any impact on the peloton.

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Interesting to see Nick Nuyens in the break. I didn't realise he was even in the Tour this year until today. Expect he'll go for a long one.


 
He's on the long road back from illness and injury. I like him a lot and I'd like to see him take a stage, but I can't see it with the other riders who are in the break.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> I said no^^^ but VamP said yes


 
and my armchair has wheels


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

41 secs gonna get caught for sure


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Yeah, looks like they can't organise themselves enough to stay away...


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

Sagan, Greipel or Cav?


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

more cut an pasting from the official website:

_Narrow handlebars for two of the escapees_
_Of the 14 in the lead of stage 18, there are two who are using handlebars that are signifcantly narrower than has been common for road racers in recent years. Adam Hansen (LTB) enjoys experimenting with equipment and he's been riding with 34cm wide bars for a couple of years now. (The standard is more like 40 or 42cm.)_
_You can see the difference in style that these narrow bars put him in._
_David Millar's are also narrow but perhaps not as extreme as what Hansen's are._

What's the theory there - more of a TT style tuck?


----------



## beastie (20 Jul 2012)

Get over it ffs. Complain !? Just enjoy it.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

Hmmmm, Greipel for me


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> Get over it ffs. Complain !? Just enjoy it.


 Pardon?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

David Millar clearly fancies it. Go on, Dave!


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

online has the gap up to 46 - what's live telly showing anyone?


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

37


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

I still think they'll stay away


----------



## Keith Oates (20 Jul 2012)

I wonder if Cav is hoping for a chance in a sprint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Well Nuyens has gone (along with Roy and Hansen). Can't see this working from 20km out.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

ad break is way too long on ES


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

sticking at 39 or so


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

It's all broken up and the peloton is catching them fast. The commentators just said 19 seconds to the last riders in the break.


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

385 all out


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

There is a visible Sky sprint train forming for the first time in ages.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

sky on the front now


----------



## YahudaMoon (20 Jul 2012)

Can't see Popavitch No 17' rear brake ? Must be on the bike somewhere


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

29 secs


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Of course, I would love Arashiro to win this. He's always putting himself out there. But it's almost certainly going to be a bunch sprint now.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

I thought Cav would keep his powder dry for Sunday but it looks like Sky are aiming to set it up for him after all. <frisson of excitement>


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

break still going


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I thought Cav would keep his powder dry for Sunday but it looks like Sky are aiming to set it up for him after all. <frisson of excitement>


Win or lose, I think it helps to get back into the swing of things now.
Come on Cav !


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Hmm, Paolini and Vinokourov now up there. But they aren't getting away.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

You've got to admire Vino's chutzpah.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

There's a lot of random attacks coming out of the peloton, but these will only help the bunch bring back the break.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Aargh, not getting any time gaps now, must be all within about 10 seconds from each group to the next.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

is Cav still there?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> is Cav still there?


 
I think so.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

just behind wiggo I think


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

5.5km to go - 11 second lead for the break - can't see it staying there....


----------



## johnr (20 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I am saddened that my not-very-interesting facts of the day do not get onto anybody's list of "must read" TdF pieces


 Of course they're 'must reads' Noodle. cycle chat refuse to delete them despite the on-line petition, the 24 hour picket and two mass demonstrations


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

More coming off the front of the peloton. But I think this will come back together.


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Please, nobody fall in this rain


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Staying at around 10 seconds though.


----------



## YahudaMoon (20 Jul 2012)

Bunch finish. Swallowed up just before the line


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

Hang on, a wheel has just come off my armchair, lemme see...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Peloton seems to have slowed. Or maybe not! Yes, this is going to come together around 1.5km.


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

COnfirmed Cav is up there in the front of the Peleton...


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

3km to go still 10 seconds bunch lead....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Twizit said:


> 3km to go still 10 seconds bunch lead....


 
You're a bit late...


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

Eurosport on sky go player on phone - is there a delay?!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Wiggins pulling now on the lead-out.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Twizit said:


> Eurosport on sky go player on phone - is there a delay?!!


 
Must be.


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

This is quite exciting now


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Last km now. All the sprinters are there.


----------



## YahudaMoon (20 Jul 2012)

Told ya


----------



## threebikesmcginty (20 Jul 2012)

oo oo oo


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Cav amazing!


----------



## aJohnson (20 Jul 2012)

Wow Cavendish, just wow.


----------



## YahudaMoon (20 Jul 2012)

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

HOLY CRAP! WOW!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Utterly farking phenomenal.


----------



## Beebo (20 Jul 2012)

wow awesome, Cav is the man -


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Nice one !


----------



## accountantpete (20 Jul 2012)

WOW


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

senfarkingsational


----------



## threebikesmcginty (20 Jul 2012)

Cav!!!!!!!!


----------



## Nearly there (20 Jul 2012)

Get in


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

None of the other sprinters even seemed to notice that Cav had started the sprint.


----------



## rvw (20 Jul 2012)

Wow!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

How did he do that?


----------



## threebikesmcginty (20 Jul 2012)

Aahhh Brad and Cav


----------



## Keith Oates (20 Jul 2012)

That was a great finish for Cav. Roll on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

Blimey!!! Damn Sky Go crashed just as Roche took off the front - but somehow replayed itself so just seen Cav go off - some finish - he's still got it


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Aahhh Brad and Cav


 sweet!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

They've given the time gap as 0, but really it wasn't. He had a least a couple of seconds there in reality, surely?


----------



## BJH (20 Jul 2012)

That's the best finish to a stage I can remember for a while . Wiggins lead out and what a sprint by Cav!!! Brilliant


----------



## cd365 (20 Jul 2012)

Truly awesome, I hope he repeats it on Sunday, will turn into a great tour for Cav then, 3 stage wins.


----------



## Dave Davenport (20 Jul 2012)

Get in there!


----------



## gb155 (20 Jul 2012)

All arise Sir Mark that was freaking awesome


----------



## YahudaMoon (20 Jul 2012)

We just need a Englishman to win something now


----------



## raindog (20 Jul 2012)

It's quite obvious that Cav should never have signed for Sky 

(this post wasn't a cut and paste)


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> How did he do that?


 
Well, all that weight loss means he has none of the power he had last year, and the team have been really useless at looking after the world champion, so... no idea.

He really should leave Sky, shouldn't he.

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

This is a really boring TdF, isn't it?


----------



## aJohnson (20 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> They've given the time gap as 0, but really it wasn't. He had a least a couple of seconds there in reality, surely?


 
Looking at the replay, it doesn't seem like it's more than one second between him crossing the line and Goss crossing it.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (20 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This is a really boring TdF, isn't it?


 
I haven't seen one as dull since last year.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Well, all that weight loss means he has none of the power he had last year


 
Got to say, I was slightly worried a few weeks back, but I also recognised that there was a carefully worked out plan directed at the Olympics. I just wasn't certain it would come togther in time for Cav to get many wins in the Tour. But, as I said then, I think it would be better for Cav in the long term if he tries to keep at this lighter weight if he can - if he wants to be more versatile and be able to take on the like of Sagan for points jersies. But he has already said that this is all temporary and he may just be happier not having to keep the weight off and sticking to winning individual sprints.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

I don't know why any of them bother


----------



## Nearly there (20 Jul 2012)

What a short arse the french president is Cav towered him


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

aJohnson said:


> Looking at the replay, it doesn't seem like it's more than one second between him crossing the line and Goss crossing it.


 
You're right of course, it was just the impression Cav created with that monster finish.


----------



## ohnovino (20 Jul 2012)

At what point does a "sprint" become a "breakaway"?


----------



## Nearly there (20 Jul 2012)

How long do riders spend warming up n down?


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> It's quite obvious that Cav should never have signed for Sky
> 
> (this post wasn't a cut and paste)


 
and in any case should definintely leave Sky before next season

He's also wasting his time going to the Olympics

(this may or may not be cut and paste)

((now where did that wheel go?))


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> and in any case should definintely leave Sky before next season
> 
> He's also wasting his time going to the Olympics
> 
> ...


 EBH gave Cav an armchair ride to the finish


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2012)

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

this is deffo cut an paste

_*Mark Cavendish** on the help he got from his Team Sky team-mates to win stage 18 of the Tour de France**:* "We spoke on the bus before the start and Shane Sutton said it was going to be an easy day for us. I stuck my hand up straight away and said 'please, just give me a chance'. Wiggo committed straight away, Chris Froome committed straight away and they did a superb job for me today._
_*And on his amazing explosive finish:* "Edvald Boasson Hagen just led me into the last corner and we had a gap. I just knew I was going to go for it. I have done nothing all Tour so I knew I had the energy in the bank. I went with five or six hundred metres to go and I knew no-one was getting past._


----------



## Noodley (20 Jul 2012)

Haha, Ned Boulting asked Cav if he thought he was the fastest man in the world as Brad had said he thought so. Cav replied sheepishly: "errr yeh, is that arrogant?"


----------



## Twizit (20 Jul 2012)

Ooooooh now I really don't like this - email just in from Ribble "additional 10% off in celebration of Wiggins win in the TdF".

No no no no no no no. Stop temping fate. He still hasn't won it yet. Making me scared now.

Roll on Sunday post [hopeful] Wiggo win, then I can relax and celebrate.....


----------



## ColinJ (20 Jul 2012)

I was somewhat impressed!


----------



## Kirstie (20 Jul 2012)

When you watch the endless replays look for the reaction of Luis Leon sanchez as Cav blasts past him. His body language says it all: 'oh FFS what's the point?'


----------



## beastie (20 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> Pardon?


 
Ha I typed that on my moblie last night in response to someone complaining to the BBC about lack of coverage. FOr some reason it didn't post it until this afternoon. Bought 8 hours later. While I am here -today was like watching Cav hunt down the line at MSR-which can only bode well for the Olympics!!


----------



## Simba (20 Jul 2012)

That was amazing by the manx missile, at 10 lengths back I didn't think he could do it, them bam he took it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (20 Jul 2012)

I am no sky fan, but that was a pretty impressive turn of speed indeed.


----------



## rodgy-dodge (20 Jul 2012)

Simba said:


> That was amazing by the manx missile, at 10 lengths back I didn't think he could do it, them bam he took it.


 I'm shaking with the excitement   wasn't it fantastic.


----------



## perplexed (20 Jul 2012)

I don't know about Cancellara and batteries, but I'm wondering how the hell Sky manage to hide the afterburners on Cavs bike...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I am no sky fan, but that was a pretty impressive turn of speed indeed.


 
I don't think anyone's reaction today had anything to do with with they were a 'Sky fan' or not... that was just a World Champion's finish.


----------



## PpPete (20 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> I don't know about Cancellara and batteries, but I'm wondering how the hell Sky manage to hide the afterburners on Cavs bike...


Luis Leon clearly wondering the same..


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Kirstie said:


> When you watch the endless replays look for the reaction of Luis Leon sanchez as Cav blasts past him. His body language says it all: 'oh FFS what's the point?'


 
That's the second time Sky have pissed on his bonfire this Tour, and lest we forget, Brad lifted the yellow jersey off his shoulders at the Tour of Romandie. He must be starting to think it's personal.

d.


----------



## Kirstie (20 Jul 2012)

Aw. Poor fella.
I'd like to see the headlines in the local press in Brive...
<bad french accent>
Ze local authoritees are assessing ze streucteural damage from un sonic boom 'eard at 15.40heures yesterday'
</bad french accent>


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

more at http://www.steephill.tv/2012/tour-de-france/photos/stage-18/


----------



## gavroche (20 Jul 2012)

Bernard Hinault is against riders being in radio contact with their managers. I can understand why as the managers actually control the team and control the race. Individual riders cannot make their own decision on what to do during the race. They have to wait for their manager to tell them when to attack etc.... Hinault thinks it spoils the race and i think he is right. In his days, no manager would have dared tell him what to do. That goes for all the greats of the past: Lemon, Merkcx, Thevenet, Fignon, Anquetil, Indurain, Coppi. Let the riders do their own race and the team leader run his team without radios.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

I think they should all ride fixed gear and do all their own repairs. It's the only way to return the sport to its pure roots.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2012)

Musical interlude

WARNING: it's so bad it borders on genius!


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Well, I admire the sentiment, certainly. Would love to know what Brad makes of it!

d.


----------



## crisscross (20 Jul 2012)

May I sit down again and stop cheering and applauding now please?

That was incredible.

If only they'd got the earlier sprints a bit more organised - I know, I know - GC and all that - but to be fair Sky only started rolling well as a train after Brad's TT, they buggered up a few of the early stages riding all over the place in the pack. IMO.


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I think they should all ride fixed gear and do all their own repairs. It's the only way to return the sport to its pure roots.


 
and carry a bag of amphetamine just in case things get tough


----------



## alecstilleyedye (20 Jul 2012)

would love to see wiggo ride a nice vintage bike in the tt, knowing that he's got 2m on anyone, and going last…


----------



## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

'Bout time Cav did something. He's been a bit of a w@nker this year


----------



## VamP (20 Jul 2012)

gavroche said:


> Bernard Hinault is against riders being in radio contact with their managers. I can understand why as the managers actually control the team and control the race. Individual riders cannot make their own decision on what to do during the race. They have to wait for their manager to tell them when to attack etc.... Hinault thinks it spoils the race and i think he is right. In his days, no manager would have dared tell him what to do. That goes for all the greats of the past: Lemon, Merkcx, Thevenet, Fignon, Anquetil, Indurain, Coppi. Let the riders do their own race and the team leader run his team without radios.


 
with all due respect Le Blaireau is frequently outspoken and at odds with the mainstream opinion. I don't think any of those other names you list were half as keen to pick fights (with other riders, director sportif's or picketers ) and ultimately, even he changed his ways (and achieved his greatest form) after he joined La vie Claire and came under the tutelage of Paul Kochli.


----------



## Peteaud (20 Jul 2012)

The mrs now has the hump because ive told her i am going nowhere on sun as i am watching the TDF.


----------



## Chromatic (20 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> The mrs now has the hump because ive told her i am going nowhere on sun as i am watching the TDF.


She'll get over it.
Try and get her involved in the excitement of it all, or won't she appreciate the fact that this is history in the making for British cycling?


----------



## NickM (20 Jul 2012)

VamP said:


> ...Le Blaireau is frequently outspoken and at odds with the mainstream opinion...


And that makes him wrong?


----------



## Kiwiavenger (20 Jul 2012)

Just watched the highlights and Jesus how fast was he going? You dont see from the front the gap he had but then the helicopter shot does make it look like he has after burners! 

Now to sport wiggo burns for the weekend!

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Norm (20 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Just watched the highlights and Jesus how fast was he going? You dont see from the front the gap he had but then the helicopter shot does make it look like he has after burners!


Abso-bleeding-lutely astonishing, wasn't it. Even my son was impressed.


----------



## Globalti (20 Jul 2012)

Mind-boggling, the man must have been waiting soooo long for that moment. I loved Roche's comment.

A sports physiologist was saying on R4 this afternoon that in this year's Tour the riders are producing around 10% fewer watts per kg than in the last 10 to 15 years, which returns their performance to merely excellent after fifteen years of simply unbelievable, thereby concluding that this could be the cleanest tour for many years.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Cleanest Tour since last year, certainly. (Evans is generally believed to be a "clean" rider, isn't he?)

d.


----------



## Peteaud (20 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Just watched the highlights and Jesus how fast was he going? You dont see from the front the gap he had but then the helicopter shot does make it look like he has after burners!
> 2


 

Astounding


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2012)

Does anyone know what's the record for fewest different stage winners in a single Tour? Must be close this year - I make it 12 so far over 18 stages plus the prologue, and the last two stages are likely to be repeat winners. 

d.


----------



## ianrauk (20 Jul 2012)

Amazing finish by Cav.
Certainly caught the others napping.


----------



## thom (20 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Does anyone know what's the record for fewest different stage winners in a single Tour? Must be close this year - I make it 12 so far over 18 stages plus the prologue, and the last two stages are likely to be repeat winners.
> 
> d.


in 1999 there were 12 too...
And in 81 there were 12 but for 23 individual stages


----------



## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> The mrs now has the hump because ive told her i am going nowhere on sun as i am watching the TDF.


 
My dearest spouse (who thinks bicycle races and football are silly, but puts up with them) heard two people in the gym today wondering aloud why some riders are skinny and thin-legged and others are great brutes with huge thighs.

She was quite pleased that she was able to explain that some were clmbers and some were sprinters. Apparently she impressed the people in the gym, but confessed to me that she was just making it up on the basis of things she'sd overheard from me and others and had no idea what she was saying.


----------



## MattHB (20 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Just watched the highlights and Jesus how fast was he going? You dont see from the front the gap he had but then the helicopter shot does make it look like he has after burners!



Just awesome.. How on earth he had that much left was amaizing.. The others weren't exactly slouching!


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## Kiwiavenger (20 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> The mrs now has the hump because ive told her i am going nowhere on sun as i am watching the TDF.



The wife is working this weekend! Me and little man get some quality tdf time!

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Well, that's the end of this thread for me.
> See you after the race guys, when it's just the usual posters in the racing section.


Now it's worth asking how come people such as myself only really post in race during Le Tour or when a big story like the LA dope affair is running?

Well, in my case - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - I do follow the pro scene and have done for well over 40 years, but not having Eurosport the TdF and World Championships are the only races I get to see each year, everything else I rely on internet reports or wait till Pro Cycling comes out. It's not easy to join in discussions on who did what in any particular race if your info is only second hand from what you've read. So before you criticize those of us who don't appear in race very much remember we're not all just three week wonders, but we're riding blind as it were.


----------



## Chuffy (20 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Now it's worth asking how come people such as myself only really post in race during Le Tour or when a big story like the LA dope affair is running?
> 
> Well, in my case - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - I do follow the pro scene and have done for well over 40 years, but not having Eurosport the TdF and World Championships are the only races I get to see each year, everything else I rely on internet reports or wait till Pro Cycling comes out. It's not easy to join in discussions on who did what in any particular race if your info is only second hand from what you've read. So before you criticize those of us who don't appear in race very much remember we're not all just three week wonders, but we're riding blind as it were.


Not as long time a fan as you (well, I am a lot younger) but yes, same problem here.


----------



## gbs (20 Jul 2012)

Me too, until I subscribed to Eurosport on line - about £4pcm. Accessibility is far from perfect and it is not correct to say that they respond to all enquires within 48 hrs BUT better than waiting for the UK press comment if any. You might be interested in L'Equipe web site.


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jul 2012)

gbs said:


> Me too, until I subscribed to Eurosport on line - about £4pcm. Accessibility is far from perfect and it is not correct to say that they respond to all enquires within 48 hrs BUT better than waiting for the UK press comment if any. You might be interested in L'Equipe web site.


My internet is fairly slow and I never have much luck with live feeds, lousy picture and constant interruptions.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 Jul 2012)

I don't even have a TV and I watch most of the top race when I have time. How? I just use http://cyclingfans.com and follow its links to Internet feeds from Eurosport and much more...


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## thom (20 Jul 2012)

Will Fotheringham turns out another gem of an article here.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (21 Jul 2012)

An interesting assessment of Sky by Basso, including his view on the size of their riders' balls!


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## just jim (21 Jul 2012)

And why not throw a load of speculation into the ring with this article on Froome


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## thom (21 Jul 2012)

Team Sky breakfast table:





(From Christian Knees, not myself, yep, I'm not there in person but I thought it's amusing...)


----------



## PaulB (21 Jul 2012)

And now the plaudits are coming! And a question that warms the cockles of my heart comes from Chris Hoy who reckons, if Wiggo does win, it will make this the greatest ever sporting achievement from a Brit. So, I ask, amongst the true greats, Chris Hoy, Daley Thompson, Roger Bannister, Sebastian Coe, Nick Faldo (hey, it's not me throwing a gawfer in), Denise Lewis, Steve Ovett and numerous other notable achievers, would Wiggo winning the Tour de France be the owner of the title of Greatest Sporting Achievement from a Brit?

Sorry if this is a tad premature (ooh, a bit of deja vu there!)


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

Loving the breakfast table 

Today's not-very-interesting fact of the day: the polka dot jersey was introduced in 1975.


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## steve broughton (21 Jul 2012)

Amazing isn't it main stream media mostly ignores cycling for years now its in every news bulletin and ITV4 are doing a cycling show, monday it starts, price of cycling gear is projected to increase along with sales, 20 years ago cyclists were viewed as a bit wierd lol


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## thom (21 Jul 2012)

steve broughton said:


> Amazing isn't it main stream media mostly ignores cycling for years now its in every news bulletin and ITV4 are doing a cycling show, monday it starts, price of cycling gear is projected to increase along with sales, 20 years ago cyclists were viewed as a bit wierd lol


I did see an anecdotal report that bike sales were actually depressed these past few weeks.


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## just jim (21 Jul 2012)

The BBC have done a fancy TDF chart and everything!


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## VamP (21 Jul 2012)

NickM said:


> And that makes him wrong?


 
It doesn't make him right or wrong. What it makes him is someone who courts controversy. I have the utmost respect for him, he's like a childhood hero of mine. I think (I am not entirely sure though) that the point I wanted to make is that Hinault advocating banning radios is in no way indicative of it actually happening.


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## User169 (21 Jul 2012)

"Time trials are about maintaining a constant pace, like a continuous hum. But they are also about pain, an agonising heat you feel in your stomach, a burning that affects your breathing. You get into a rhythm, and when the pain comes, you tunnel into it, exploring it to the bitter end.

"What with the discomfort and the heat some riders cross the finish line and throw their helmet down. I don't even think about it: it's all part of the same ache. From top to bottom, front to back, I gather it into a smooth ball of pain that spins around in my mind until the time trial is over – pain in my muscles, a burning in the sole of my feet, an aching in my wrists, a stabbing in my neck from holding my head in one position. There isn't a second to relax and stretch, or move my hands. I have to go on in the same position. If I want to spit, I do it by twisting my mouth sideways – tuh! – to avoid moving my head. I fix my eyes on an arbitrary landmark – a tree, a point on a curve – and I say, Until I get there, I'm not going to change position. And before I get there, I fix another point …"

Colombian rider Victor Hugo Peña's description of a time trial in Matt Rendell's book A Significant Other.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I did see an anecdotal report that bike sales were actually depressed these past few weeks.


Lousy weather always depresses bike sales. Ask any shop owner.


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## PpPete (21 Jul 2012)

Am I missing something?
Which one's the muppet ?


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## thom (21 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Am I missing something?
> Which one's the muppet ?


Cav. Hadn't you heard he lost weight ?


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

Grilled sardines for lunch washed down with a local Picpoul, excitement's mounting, it's a big weekend and I'm ready to go. 







(this post wasn't a cut and paste)
sent from my clapped out and ever slower PC


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Sanchez TT finish - 1h06'03" - that'll give the others a reasonable benchmark to ride on?


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Sanchez TT finish - 1h06'03" - that'll give the others a reasonable benchmark to ride on?


 
I think so. I don't think we'll see that bettered for a while.


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## smutchin (21 Jul 2012)

Poor Luis Leon - he's going to get trumped by Sky again, isn't he?


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Voeckler and Basso off


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## Andrew_Culture (21 Jul 2012)

What gearing do they use for the time trials? The front crank looks huge!


Sent from my FondleSlab using Tapatalk HD


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think so. I don't think we'll see that bettered for a while.


Given the fact riders are now datalogged and in radio contact, it makes the TT for the rider less of a 'gamble'. they just get into their stride and the team car tells them to 'speed up/slow down' as required.


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## Dave Davenport (21 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What gearing do they use for the time trials? The front crank looks huge!
> 
> 
> Sent from my FondleSlab using Tapatalk HD


 
I'd have thought about a 56 for this course.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

If I were Sky I'd send those chainrings back, they're completely out of shape.

Should have bought Campag.


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## Andrew_Culture (21 Jul 2012)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'd have thought about a 56 for this course.



Ta!


Sent from my FondleSlab using Tapatalk HD


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> If I were Sky I'd send those chainrings back, they're completely out of shape.
> 
> Should have bought Campag.


Yes, Wiggo's big ring looks like one of an old hybrid I had that stripped it's teeth


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Cadel's away


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## Fnaar (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Yes, Wiggo's big ring looks like one of an old hybrid I had that stripped it's teeth


Oh Lordy! 

-----------------------------------
Sent mobile phone stylee


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

Brad will be off in a few minutes. 
I thought I'd never live to see a weekend like this - I can hardly believe it's happening.


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Froome's outta there...........3 minutes to go


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Wiggins in the traps - Cinq, quatre, trois, deux, un....


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Bloody hell - Froome knocked 20+ seconds off the best time through the 1st check!!


Only for Wiggo to knock about 12 more off that!!!


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Going to be Wiggins, Froome, Van Gardaren, way ahead of the rest. Although Van G is perhaps going out a bit too fast. We shall see.


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

VG has caught Cadel.....3 mins in 30K? Seems like he may have gone too quick?


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

Van Garderen just pissed straight past Evans. Talk about symbolic.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

I feel sorry for Evans, no form and probably no moral.Being caught by a young whippersnapper from your own team must really rub your nose in it.


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## Norm (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> VG has caught Cadel.....3 mins in 30K? Seems like he may have gone too quick?


Possibly, but still quite a feat to catch your team leader like that. Even my son is watching this, rather than playing Battlefield.


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Froome is slowing. Only 4 seconds faster than LLS at the 2nd split. Has he gone out too fast?


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Wiggins is not slowing at all. 53 seconds up on Froome, almost a minute up on LLS.


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## Norm (21 Jul 2012)

Norm said:


> Possibly, but still quite a feat to catch your team leader like that. Even my son is watching this, rather than playing Battlefield.


Holy Smoke! The Xbox just got turned off so he can watch Teejay, Froome & Wiggins finish on tv rather than just listening whilst I watch it on the iPad.

I quite like Teejay's team using the speaker rather than radios.


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Van G rather collapsed in the last section. Evans almost came back to him.


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Wiggins 1.15 over Froome at the last intermediate. Froome 20 on LLS, so he's picked it up slightly again.


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

That was immense!!!


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## Nearly there (21 Jul 2012)

Fantastic wiggo


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Checking BBC news now, to see if he gets deserved coverage


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

Brilliant. I loved how Eurosport had an insert with LLS's reaction to the last two... it was pretty much the same look he had when Cav overtook him yesterday. Poor guy.


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## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Sport news page seems dominated by golf?

............

A British rider (bar total catastrophe) has just got one hand on the TDF title, and Auntie beeb is more interested in people who dress like paddington f*ckin' bear?


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

50 kph
bloody well done Brad


----------



## Andy84 (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Sport news page seems dominated by golf?
> 
> ............
> 
> A British rider (bar total catastrophe) has just got one hand on the TDF title, and Auntie beeb is more interested in people who dress like paddington f*ckin' bear?


 
2nd story on the main sports page

they do need a bit of time to type it up!


----------



## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Andy84 said:


> 2nd story on the main sports page
> 
> *they do need a bit of time to type it up*!


 
I challenge that (the beeb's lack of preparation, not your post). This has been 3 weeks in the making, and the TT being his speciality, one would expect better preparation from a national news agency to be in immediate position to report on a record-breaking British sporting hero.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

1944598 said:


> So tomorrow, yellow jersey processing round with champagne or playing his part driving the sky train for the sprint?



Both, I hope. Last stage is always 'a game of two halves' - the run into Paris where everyone has a laugh, and then the circuit race where it all gets serious.


----------



## beastie (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I challenge that (the beeb's lack of preparation, not your post). This has been 3 weeks in the making, and the TT being his speciality, one would expect better preparation from a national news agency to be in immediate position to report on a record-breaking British sporting hero.


 
It's on as "breaking news" which it is. I don't rate the BBC for it's news coverage of any kind but it's lack of appreciation for something you value highly is hardly worth wingeing about. Just enjoy Brad's win!!


----------



## Dave Davenport (21 Jul 2012)

Thank god for that, I can relax at last.

And yes, I think Sky will be really fired up for Cav tomorrow.


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## Andy84 (21 Jul 2012)

1944598 said:


> So tomorrow, yellow jersey processing round with champagne or playing his part driving the sky train for the sprint?


 
Team Sky on Twitter

*Team Sky*‏@*TeamSky*
That's five stage wins for @*TeamSky* at the Tour de France. We will be going all out tomorrow to try and make it six! #*TDF12* #*ChampsElysees*


----------



## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Bet if it was that coiffeured idiot and his bunch of adulterous thugs kicking a bag of wind around (and losing) there'd be wall to wall coverage


----------



## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

Spare a thought for Chris Froome (whose time should yet come).

At any time since 1903 his second place would have made him the most famous British cyclist in history, this year he's just the co-star.


----------



## yello (21 Jul 2012)

I'm fair pissed off! How f*cking bregrudging are Jalabert and Voekler! Wiggins has no panache it seems.

I reckon Wiggins heard it too because he was not as keen to talk as he normally was. He said something about the French/English relationship that I didn't quite catch.... I hope.

Perhaps raindog can offer his perspective as maybe I've gone off the deep end.


----------



## beastie (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Bet if it was that coiffeured idiot and his bunch of adulterous thugs kicking a bag of wind around (and losing) there'd be wall to wall coverage


 
Football is more popular than cycling - pretty much worldwide. it's a numbers game innit.


----------



## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Bet if it was that coiffeured idiot and his bunch of adulterous thugs kicking a bag of wind around (and losing) there'd be wall to wall coverage


Let's not bitch, you can't expect any sport to go from minority interest to a major player overnight. Plenty of other sports have provided British world champions while barely featuring on the radar.


----------



## ohnovino (21 Jul 2012)

Brad to cycle through the Olympic stadium and light the cauldron in the opening ceremony?


----------



## yello (21 Jul 2012)

A program on previous English wearers of the yellow jersey now. Could be good.


----------



## ComedyPilot (21 Jul 2012)

Bradley Wiggins has worn the yellow jersey on more days than all other British riders combined.


----------



## Dave Davenport (21 Jul 2012)

If he'd lost and cried a bit he'd have got about the first twenty minutes of the BBC news.


----------



## gb155 (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'm fair pissed off! How f*cking bregrudging are Jalabert and Voekler! Wiggins has no panache it seems.
> 
> I reckon Wiggins heard it too because he was not as keen to talk as he normally was. He said something about the French/English relationship that I didn't quite catch.... I hope.
> 
> Perhaps raindog can offer his perspective as maybe I've gone off the deep end.


What did I miss?


----------



## asterix (21 Jul 2012)

It's like 1966, only much better!


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2012)

Fantastic achievement by Wiggins, and a brilliant performance by all involved at Team Sky. Hats off to every one of them
.
And we've still got Cav's 4th consecutive last stage win (hopefully) to look forward to.


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

asterix said:


> It's like 1966, only much better!


 
Not hard, considering 1966 was a right lot of shite.


----------



## asterix (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Not hard, considering 1966 was a right lot of shite.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2012)

What a fantastic performance by Wiggins, really blew the field away, showed his track/TT pedigree well. Froome's efforts were also considerable. Great way to stamp thier authority on the overall win.
However, I am surprised no one is now questioning Wiggins and Froome wrt to being 'suspicous' as many of you questioned Sagan when he was 'fresh as a daisy' and showboating at the finish lines. Double standards it seems.


----------



## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Strathlubnaig said:


> However, I am surprised no one is now questioning Wiggins and Froome wrt to being 'suspicous' as many of you questioned Sagan when he was 'fresh as a daisy' and showboating at the finish lines. Double standards it seems.


 
I can point you in the direction of questions if that's what you really want. Plenty are asking them. Personally, for now, I'm just going to rejoice!


----------



## bof (21 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Sport news page seems dominated by golf?
> 
> ............
> 
> A British rider (bar total catastrophe) has just got one hand on the TDF title, and Auntie beeb is more interested in people who dress like paddington f*ckin' bear?


Pedant alert on
It's Rupert f*ckin bear - check the trousers
Pedant alert off


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Not hard, considering 1966 was a right lot of shite.


 
Yeah, we alI understand your grief and humiliation with Scotland not going beyond the qualification stages!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I can point you in the direction of questions if that's what you really want. Plenty are asking them. Personally, for now, I'm just going to rejoice!


I was having a dig at the slightly more xenophobic CC posters really.... stir stir....


----------



## Boris Bajic (21 Jul 2012)

1944598 said:


> So tomorrow, yellow jersey processing round with champagne or playing his part driving the sky train for the sprint?


 
I think the latter. Whether symbolically or otherwise, but I think he'll be there.


----------



## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

Dayvo said:


> Yeah, we alI understand your grief and humiliation with Scotland not going beyond the qualification stages!


 
1967 at Wembley was much better.


----------



## Speicher (21 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> Team Sky breakfast table:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Are they all having Cubs for breakfast?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2012)

bof said:


> Pedant alert on
> It's Rupert f*ckin bear - check the trousers
> Pedant alert off



Although in the current British "summer" conditions, a duffel coat and wellies might not be such a bad idea. 

d.


----------



## ColinJ (21 Jul 2012)

gb155 said:


> What did I miss?


The fact that he is watching it in France? 

It sounds like they are whining about the Indurain-esque style of BW's hoped-for victory i.e. trash the opposition in the timetrials and defend your position in the mountains, unlike your hero LA who killed 'em in both, though quite possibly with _'a little help from his friends'? (_I'm not talking about his team-mates!)


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## SoloCyclist (21 Jul 2012)

Personally I hate it when the media jump on a winning bandwagon like Wiggins, Cavendish, Hoy. They talk nonsence then quickly go off back to Football, Golf, Rugby....

I know it shouldn't but it annoys me listening to them pass off some cheesy cliches read from a autocue, drop in some drug references then move on in 30secs.

How can he be sportsman of the year if it's a team sport? Do you think Wiggins is on drugs because he has come from nowhere? These are just a couple questions I get asked fairly regular.


----------



## gavroche (21 Jul 2012)

Thinking ahead to next year's tour, do you think Froom should get his own team? I think he should as he is s better climber than Wiggins and should provide good competition specially with Andy Schleck and Contador back.


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## SoloCyclist (21 Jul 2012)

What are his options? How does transferring to another team work? Is he tied to SKY? Does the new team buy him out? Will SKY want the competition? Can they sit on his contract and not use him if he is a reluctant participant?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the matter.


----------



## gavroche (21 Jul 2012)

You have very good, valid points but we all know that in the sporting world, contracts are very volatile.


----------



## yello (21 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> The fact that he is watching it in France?


 
Yes, sorry, I am.

Prudhomme has just described Wiggins as 'cold, typically British'... so I'm obviously missing something in the translation. Lots of talk about Sky's plans and objectives as if they're not allowed to plan to win and ought be making it up as they go along. Jalabert (whom I'm starting to like less and less) said Wiggins had not a lot of panache. Voekler effectively called both Wiggins and Sky boring - so he's not getting a Christmas card from me either!

No panache? Boring? I wonder how many yellow jersey holders they've seen leading out a sprint?

Edit: Oh, and mention of Sky's budget being x times greater than the average French team. It all comes across very critically imho and it's needling me a little in honesty.

Fortunately, Stephen Roche was able to describe Sky's approach in a positive way; said it was scientific, they monitored power outputs, heart rates - attention to detail that gave rewards.


----------



## yello (21 Jul 2012)

SoloCyclist said:


> What are his options? How does transferring to another team work? Is he tied to SKY? Does the new team buy him out? Will SKY want the competition? Can they sit on his contract and not use him if he is a reluctant participant?


 
His contract with Sky can be bought out - just as Sky bought out Wiggin's contract with Garmin. They could of course refuse to sell but there's practically not a lot of point in keeping a rider who wants out. Depends what Froome wants to do, he'll have the offers that's for sure.


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## Peteaud (21 Jul 2012)

How the hell this TDF is boring i will never know.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Jul 2012)

I reckon Froome knows where he is best off. A British team who realise the value of his potential and are prepared to nurture and support him as a future winner. Going to a continental team might seem a better bet in the short term, but they are just as likely to chew him up and spit him out should he not deliver straight away.

I'd be surprised to see him go.


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## SoloCyclist (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> His contract with Sky can be bought out - just as Sky bought out Wiggin's contract with Garmin. They could of course refuse to sell but there's practically not a lot of point in keeping a rider who wants out. Depends what Froome wants to do, he'll have the offers that's for sure.


 
My questions all come from a genuine lack of knowledge on the subject. It's something I am very interested to know more about. I love the sport but this is a part of the sport I have never given much thought to.

IF Froome is the main contender apart from the others mentioned who I believe will be coming back from bans and injuries and he has no chance of being team leader as Wiggins must be allowed to defend (right?) then surely he will want away. If SKY don't let him go then that would be seen as running scared and noone wants a hollow victory (right?).

So someone comes up with the money Froome leaves Wiggins loses a great ally and the teams become closer matched. Wins all round for the spectator, Le Tour, TV, cycling, sponsers? or does Froome leaving weaken SKY/Wiggins and let some infiltrater in?


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

SoloCyclist said:


> So someone comes up with the money Froome leaves Wiggins loses a great ally and the teams become closer matched. Wins all round for the spectator, Le Tour, TV, cycling, sponsers? or does Froome leaving weaken SKY/Wiggins and let some infiltrater in?


 
If Froome leaves then Sky just get someone else in to do the job he did. He goes to a team and has to find a team who can do for him what Sky helped Wiggins with . And from where I am sitting there isn't one.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd be surprised to see him go.


 
I wouldn't want to say. Particularly if his tweeting girlfriend/wife (whatever) has a say in things!

That he's going to get some attractive offers is beyond question. He can just about name his price I'd expect. If he stays, Sky will have a bit of a balancing act to perform I reckon - but a great deal of that will depend on what their riders want to achieve personally and whether than can be accommodated. It's not just about Froome and Wiggins, there's Cavendish, EBH, Richie Porte....

If Froome is looking to lead Sky at the next TdF, how might that fit in with Cavendish's plans? Is EBH happy to perform the same role again?


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Prudhomme has just described Wiggins as 'cold, typically British'... so I'm obviously missing something in the translation.


Prudhomme is a Wiggo fan - he's had nothing but praise in all the interviews I've seen where Brad has been mentioned. 
The thing with Roche was edited for the news and none cycling public - he was talking in general terms about watts and heart rate monitors that all teams use, and used long before team Sky existed, and which he didn't have in his day, but it was edited in such a way that it seemed to apply to Sky only. They mentioned the massive budget but failed to say that Sky are only third - I think BMC have the biggest? But the general public will now have the impression that the plucky French lads are competing on unequal terms.
But there's no problem with Prudhomme, he thinks Brad is great. He talked about him for quite a long time this morning.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> And from where I am sitting there isn't one.


 
Leaky Gas praps?


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> If Froome leaves then Sky...


I hope he does - I can't stand the bloke since his theatrical riding in front of Brad last thursday. I saw him in interview for the first time after that stage, and he gave me the creeps. In fact, he reminded me of Virenque who I absolutely detested.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Leaky Gas praps?


 
They didnae do much of a job for Nibali this year, and he'll still have hopes of building his own team.
There was talk during today's stage that Astana were interested.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> In fact, he reminded me of Virenque who I absolutely detested.


 
_That's_ who he reminds me of!!! I knew there was someone but couldnae remember who...


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Thanks for your take on it raindog. Do you detect any kind of begrudgement? As I've said before, my French isn't good enough to correctly interpret nuance - I hear the words but I'm not always sure how they're meant.



raindog said:


> Prudhomme is a Wiggo fan.


 
He had a grin on his face, it was said in an endearing way I suspect - it's just the description of "cold' doesn't sound good to me... but that's why I said 'lost in translation.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

I cannae work out why Jalabert is trying to rubbish Wiggins and Sky, or why French TV are taking the "poor us" route, as it's been a great Tour for French riders and they have some class young riders who they should be congratulating rather than slagging off others.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> There was talk during today's stage that Astana were interested.


 
They were saying that on French tele too. My only remark.... 'run away'!!!


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## rich p (21 Jul 2012)

James Richardson on the Eurosport pre-amble prog showed French newspapers which seemed to suggest how popular Wiggo was in France. Perhaps the commentators are out of step with public opinion but that's supposition.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I cannae work out why Jalabert is trying to rubbish Wiggins and Sky, or why French TV are taking the "poor us" route, as it's been a great Tour for French riders and they have some class young riders who they should be congratulating rather than slagging off others.


 
Oh, they're singing the praises of the French lads and they're not slagging Sky as such, it's just that some are hardly giving praise willingly. It comes across to me as begrudging, or hollow.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

Froome also looks like Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory...


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Oh, they're singing the praises of the French lads and they're not slagging Sky as such, it's just that some are hardly giving praise willingly. It comes across to me as begrudging, or hollow.


 
Ah right. It is the meedya I suppose, no "angle" and there's no story.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> James Richardson on the Eurosport pre-amble prog showed French newspapers which seemed to suggest how popular Wiggo was in France. Perhaps the commentators are out of step with public opinion but that's supposition.


 
I ought tone down my remarks! There is loads of respect and praise for Wiggins from all and sundry. I think he has 'won hearts' as it were. I'm just miffed by Jalabert and Voekler.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

Bradley grows and grows in my estimation as every day passes; another great interview on ITV4 highlights show, very humble and hugely aware of the magnitude of what he has done and that he has acheived it due to the support and sacrifices of many people in his life.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'm just miffed by Jalabert and Voekler.


 
Probably just them then by the sounds of it, Voeckler must be eyeing a job as a pundit as he nears the end of his career.


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## raindog (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> I'm just miffed by Jalabert and Voekler.


I shouldn't worry about those two, after all they're both a bit weird. 

Did you see Gerard Holz with the glue-on Wiggo sideburns? He suddenly shot up in my estimation.


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## yello (21 Jul 2012)

Yep, 

I love the whacky caricatures of Englishness too - because of their corny wrongness!


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## Peteaud (21 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Bradley grows and grows in my estimation as every day passes; another great interview on ITV4 highlights show, very humble and hugely aware of the magnitude of what he has done and that he has acheived it due to the support and sacrifices of many people in his life.


 
Mine too.


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## PpPete (21 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Thanks for your take on it raindog. Do you detect any kind of begrudgement? As I've said before, my French isn't good enough to correctly interpret nuance - I hear the words but I'm not always sure how they're meant.
> 
> 
> 
> He had a grin on his face, it was said in an endearing way I suspect - it's just the description of "cold' doesn't sound good to me... but that's why I said 'lost in translation.


 
Have you got any links to the original ? 
My French is still just about good enough to pick up nuances


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## Crackle (21 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I hope he does - I can't stand the bloke since his theatrical riding in front of Brad last thursday. I saw him in interview for the first time after that stage, and he gave me the creeps. In fact, he reminded me of Virenque who I absolutely detested.


yep, I'm finding it difficult to warm to him. You get the distinct impression he's not really saying what he's thinking.


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## just jim (21 Jul 2012)

Here's an audio file of Wiggins's's final press conference, which is very good - he's unplugged from the Matrix. Great bit about him getting on a turbo trainer after watching...ah well I won't spoil it.


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## Noodley (21 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> yep, I'm finding it difficult to warm to him. You get the distinct impression he's not really saying what he's thinking.


 
Yep, you can just about look at his eyes and see "this is not really what I believe" written in them...


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

I'm not sure we can say much about Froome's personality based on interviews given in what is probably a state of complete physical and mental exhaustion.


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## marinyork (21 Jul 2012)

Interesting what other people think. I think Froome interviews amazingly well.


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## Peteaud (21 Jul 2012)

marinyork said:


> Interesting what other people think. I think Froome interviews amazingly well.


he comes across well imho


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## captainhastings (21 Jul 2012)

Froome all ways seemed too make a big thing of looking over his shoulder as if too say look every one I am waiting for wiggins most others just had a discrete look when they needed too


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Jul 2012)

captainhastings said:


> Froome all ways seemed too make a big thing of looking over his shoulder as if too say look every one I am waiting for wiggins most others just had a discrete look when they needed too


 
We've already done this, haven't we? Wiggins said at the time that his mental discipline had gone. If you've read interviews with Sky or seen descriptions of their set-up, you'll know that managing Wiggins' moods is a major and ongoing job. Froome knows Wiggins well enough to know that this is his weakness. The fact that he knows what to do and how to respond to get Wiggins back on track is probably one of the reasons he is his right-hand man. Whatever he was doing he was doing for Wiggins not for us, and not for the media. Of course the media always think that anything they see is being done for them...


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## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2012)

Difficult one for sky and the Froome situation, if he genuinely wanted away elsewhere then of course the contract could be bought out and sky could hardly complain really, but then he would be a defininte threat to a repeat win for sky next year (the 100th too !) and in addition he would also have a great deal of 'insider' knowledge on sky's methods and theories etc which he could possibly use to advantage of the new team, whoever they may be.
If he was really unhappy being the second guy as it were then best he be let go as no point in having unhappy members in your team. On the other hand he could be given the lead role in the Vuelta or next years Giro, he may be happy with that.


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## Peteaud (21 Jul 2012)

Sky are the best team at the moment, he is best staying put.

(my opinion anyway)


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## Chuffy (21 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> We've already done this, haven't we? Wiggins said at the time that his mental discipline had gone. If you've read interviews with Sky or seen descriptions of their set-up, you'll know that managing Wiggins' moods is a major and ongoing job. Froome knows Wiggins well enough to know that this is his weakness. The fact that he knows what to do and how to respond to get Wiggins back on track is probably one of the reasons he is his right-hand man. Whatever he was doing he was doing for Wiggins not for us, and not for the media. Of course the media always think that anything they see is being done for them...


You only need to look at the dopey (dwarf, not drugs) grin on Wiggy's face in the pictures of the end of that stage - he was in a different world.


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## beastie (21 Jul 2012)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Difficult one for sky and the Froome situation, if he genuinely wanted away elsewhere then of course the contract could be bought out and sky could hardly complain really, but then he would be a defininte threat to a repeat win for sky next year (the 100th too !) and in addition he would also have a great deal of 'insider' knowledge on sky's methods and theories etc which he could possibly use to advantage of the new team, whoever they may be.
> If he was really unhappy being the second guy as it were then best he be let go as no point in having unhappy members in your team. On the other hand he could be given the lead role in the Vuelta or next years Giro, he may be happy with that.


 
Froome chose his role at Sky and at the same time turned down the chance to lead a team when he resigned with Sky last year. He knew what he was getting him self into.


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## Peteaud (21 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> You only need to look at the dopey (dwarf, not drugs) grin on Wiggy's face in the pictures of the end of that stage - he was in a different world.


 
He was in a different league as well


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## beastie (21 Jul 2012)

Robert Millar from the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/21/robert-millar-tour-de-france


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> If Froome leaves then Sky just get someone else in to do the job he did.


 
They already have several very strong contenders for his job - not least Rigoberto Uran and Geraint Thomas. Froome needs Sky more than Sky need Froome.

Historically, plenty of super domestiques have thought they could do better elsewhere, but how many of them have gone on to win Grand Tours with a different team?

d.


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## redcard (22 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> He knew what he was getting him self into.



This seems to be the de facto response at the moment.

He's a person, he has emotions n opinions n stuff.


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## Monsieur Remings (22 Jul 2012)

Crackle said:


> what's the difference here then. Is this expert punditry is it. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.


 
Just another opinion from someone who thinks he knows best, like you correctly imply Crackle.

FWIW I've taken on-board a lot of what others have said about Cavendish and Froome and I'm not the same opinion as I was a few short weeks ago now. Perhaps also, I, we're talking about separate things? Maybe we're talking as spectators but at other times 'have-a-go Brailsford's'?

If, for example, Cav's goal is Olympic Gold then time will tell whether he will feel supported at the 2013 TDF. I'd suggest that if his ultimate goal as a cyclist, and perhaps it's not, is to win the most stages ever as a rider then I still think he'd be better off with a train/team dedicated to him, but as others have said that isn't his objective _this_ year and it certainly wasn't Team Sky's. However, perhaps as a spectator I subjectively wanted to see that even though my mind told me that earlier in the season, he did get good support in the Giro and with a combination of bad luck and other factors he didn't pull it off. No place like the Tour de France though eh, and the disappointment of his lonely role which I perceived to be that of a team sprinter/scavenger of stages as opposed a far more important figure in the rainbow jersey. I accept then that this was what Sky had in order for him but it does remain to be seen what will happen after Olympic Gold..?

Equally, as a spectator I'd have loved to have seen Chris Froome, standing as I was in Cycle City Pau on the big screen that day on Thursday July 12th's 11th stage in the Alps, take out Pierre Rolland because he gave such a fantastic ride and deserved it. He would have too if he hadn't have been held back and whilst team orders for the greater good is no new thing to cycling, I'm not so sure that Wiggins would have lost the kind of time that would have been precarious but who knows? As others have suggested, I'm not Dave Brailsford. Either way it would have been great to see given that one of Froome's other great acts this tour was to protect Wiggins all the way up La Planche Des Belles Filles and still have the power left to finish the job. Remarkable.

Roll on 2013 and well done Gentleman Wiggins and all of Team Sky who have, undoubtedly, worked tremendously well and dominated from start to finish.

Again, as a spectator, the prospect of the two best riders in the tour riding against each other sounds great but perhaps others would prefer to see Team Sky, remain as they were this year? Time will tell and I think I know what I'd prefer, aside my liking for old sideburns. I'd imagine some of us might argue, given the dominance of the riders of the 'Death Star', that it may even be for the good of cycling?


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## PaulB (22 Jul 2012)

You know what would be madness? To ask Usain Bolt to run the Three Peaks. What would be even madder is if he won the Three Peaks but what we have here with Bradley Wiggins is the equivalent of that. From winning Olympic Gold Medals on the track in short events and then going on to win the Tour de France is unheard of, never happened before but is happening right now, today and is the most awe-inspiring thing that has ever happened in my life. I'm struggling to find words to convey how impressed I am and have bought in some champagne to toast the most incredible sporting achievement in history.


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## threebikesmcginty (22 Jul 2012)

Exciting day today, who'd have thought it! Might even sip a firkin or two in celebration.


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## MattHB (22 Jul 2012)

I'll have to wait until later and try to avoid any Internet. SWMBO will want the F1 on


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## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> You know what would be madness? To ask Usain Bolt to run the Three Peaks. What would be even madder is if he won the Three Peaks but what we have here with Bradley Wiggins is the equivalent of that. From winning Olympic Gold Medals on the track in short events and then going on to win the Tour de France is unheard of, never happened before but is happening right now, today and is the most awe-inspiring thing that has ever happened in my life. I'm struggling to find words to convey how impressed I am and have bought in some champagne to toast the most incredible sporting achievement in history.


 I think I heard that Fausto Coppi did something similar but it is still a remarkable transformation.


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## Peteaud (22 Jul 2012)

The suns out, blue sky and i should be either at the beach or out on the bike in the sun.

No.

Going to sit in front of the TV to see the TDF.

If i turn into a fat lazy slob its wiggins fault.


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## PaulB (22 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> I think I heard that Fausto Coppi did something similar but it is still a remarkable transformation.


I'm going off what was said in the commentary of yesterday's remarkable race. Wiggins is the only man to have won Olympic track medals and to have won the TdF. I stand to be corrected but it certainly wasn't Coppi. He may have ridden on the track but is best known for things like hour records.


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## yello (22 Jul 2012)

PpPete said:


> Have you got any links to the original ?
> My French is still just about good enough to pick up nuances


 
Yes, have a look here http://www.francetv.fr/sport/l-apres-tour-du-21072012-11607

From around 13:25 for Voekler and Jalabert's "pas beaucoup de panache" and 17:55 for Wiggin's subdued interview. On the latter, I've since seen Bradley interviewed in English and he was just as subdued in them too (emotional he said) so I think I misread the French interview. I was pissed off by Jalabert and wrongly transposed that onto Wiggin's interview. I now think his remark about the English/French relationship is perhaps more to do with him being aware (and a little embarrassed perhaps?) that he's wasn't more forthcoming.


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## yello (22 Jul 2012)

MattHB said:


> SWMBO will want the F1 on


 
That is just disgraceful. Really it is, and I'm being serious. Has SWMBO put her foot down (no pun intended) or have you just assumed her response?

Today is historic in British cycling. It has to be watched for that alone. On top of that, you could well get to see a 'tour de force' Sky performance, setting up Cavendish for the win.... it simply has to be watched. End of discussion.


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## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> From around 13:25 for Voekler and Jalabert's "pas beaucoup de panache"


Ta yello, I've watched it now. You're right, Jalabert is a bit dismissive of Brad's win and tries to provoke Voeckler into agreeing with him, but in fact - and I'm pleasantly surprised by this - Voeckler more or less praises Brad's win. He also says that people shouldn't be surprised by the win, because as a rider in the peloton with Brad, he's seen his other victories this season and wasn't surprised that Brad could win the Tour.
Can't see much wrong with Brad's interview except he's obviously knackered and doesn't understand one of the questions. The bit about thanking the French fans was nice, surely?


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Yes, have a look here http://www.francetv.fr/sport/l-apres-tour-du-21072012-11607
> 
> From around 13:25 for Voekler and Jalabert's "pas beaucoup de panache" and 17:55 for Wiggin's subdued interview. On the latter, I've since seen Bradley interviewed in English and he was just as subdued in them too (emotional he said) so I think I misread the French interview. I was pissed off by Jalabert and wrongly transposed that onto Wiggin's interview. I now think his remark about the English/French relationship is perhaps more to do with him being aware (and a little embarrassed perhaps?) that he's wasn't more forthcoming.


Unfortunately that link doesn't work in the UK.


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## Kiwiavenger (22 Jul 2012)

Peteaud said:


> The suns out, blue sky and i should be either at the beach or out on the bike in the sun.
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



Me too! Good job mini kiwi likes bikes too! Lol

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


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## yello (22 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Unfortunately that link doesn't work in the UK.


 
Ah, sorry, didn't know that. I have the same problem with the BBC's iPlayer thingy.


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## yello (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Voeckler more or less praises Brad's win.


 
It's the "more or less" bit I picked up on! I recognise that he was put on the spot and he tried to be diplomatic. Certainly, he puts the wins into a context in an even handed sort of a way, for sure, but then he seems (for me anyway) to dismiss that context as not exciting (I paraphrase), or not as he'd do it. It just comes across as sniffy to me, and not genuine praise.



> Can't see much wrong with Brad's interview except he's obviously knackered and doesn't understand one of the questions. The bit about thanking the French fans was nice, surely?


 
Indeed it was nice. It was his quieter than normal manner than threw me in truth. I thought something was up. And I initially couldn't really work out what motivated his final remark re the French and English, it seemed clumsy. I'll watch it again.

Edit: having just watched it again, the remark still seems clumsy but I think he just feels a little awkward about what he's saying - thanking the supporters maybe felt a bit humbling for him, a bit 'movie star', and he's not like that. Maybe the 'French not being like the English' bit is more as an explanation for his feeling awkward???


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## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> And I initially couldn't really work out what motivated his final remark re the French and English, it seemed clumsy. I'll watch it again.


He suddenly remembers there's something else, asks for the mike again and says "And I'd just like to thank the support I've had from French fans - I know it's not always easy with the traditional rivalry that exists between the French and the English" or words to that effect. I think that's really nice, but he does look emotionally worn out, doesn't he?


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## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Final day and final not-very-interesting fact: the youngest winner of the Tour was 19, and the oldest was 36


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## MattHB (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That is just disgraceful. Really it is, and I'm being serious. Has SWMBO put her foot down (no pun intended) or have you just assumed her response?
> 
> Today is historic in British cycling. It has to be watched for that alone. On top of that, you could well get to see a 'tour de force' Sky performance, setting up Cavendish for the win.... it simply has to be watched. End of discussion.



It's ok  I will watch it on Eurosport player at the same time. I'll watch the end half on tv proper so it's not a biggie really


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## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Final day and final not-very-interesting fact: the youngest winner of the Tour was 19, and the oldest was 36


Can we know who they were?
Jesus, 19 - that's ridiculous.


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## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Can we know who they were?
> Jesus, 19 - that's ridiculous.


 
It would be too interesting if I named them


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## yello (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I know it's not always easy with the traditional rivalry that exists between the French and the English" or words to that effect.


 
That's the bit that threw me, In truth, I don't really understand exactly what he was saying (so, yes, "words to that effect"!) and, more to the point, didn't really know *why* he was saying it! When I originally heard it, I'd just been pissed off by Jalabert, so that wrongly coloured by interpretation. I see I was wrong now.

As you say, Wiggin's was emotionally shot and not his normal self.


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## threebikesmcginty (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Can we know who they were?
> Jesus, 19 - that's ridiculous.



What, Jesus won it? Christ on a bike!


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## perplexed (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Can we know who they were?
> Jesus, 19 - that's ridiculous.


 
Henri Cornet won in 1904 aged 19 yrs, 11 months and 20 days...

Firmin Lambot won in 1922 aged 36 yrs, 4 months and 9 days...


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## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> Henri Cornet won in 1904 aged 19 yrs, 11 months and 20 days...
> 
> Firmin Lambot won in 1922 aged 36 yrs, 4 months and 9 days...


 
See, far too interesting.

And as a bonus extra not-very-interesting fact for Paris: Lambot was not only the oldest winner of the Tour, he was also the frist to win the Tour without having won a stage.


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## andrew_s (22 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Anyone know roughly what the ETA is of them hitting Champs *É*lys*é*es? (sp)
> 
> Doing the sunshine / telly slob trade off thing


About 15:00 UK time, finish 16:10


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## NickM (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> [Froome] gave me the creeps.


Me too. Robert Millar describes him as going in for "amateur dramatics".

In fact, I understand that Lord of the Rings is to remade soon, with Wiggins as Frodo, Froome as Gollum, Brailsford as Gandalf, and Michael Rogers as Sam Gamgee...


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

Christ, the race hasn't even finished yet and the backlash has already started.

The armchair psychoanalysis is much more creepy than Froome's manner and about as well-informed as the armchair DSing. 

d.


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## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

Anyway, Cav...

I've been getting carried away with enjoying Wiggo's overall victory, but it just struck me that if Cav wins today's stage, what an utterly astonishing achievement that would be. Three wins in a row was unprecedented, four would be emphatic confirmation that he deserves the accolade of best ever sprinter in the Tour de France that he was awarded last week. 

And with Sky promising to give him the full leadout treatment, is anyone prepared to bet against him?

Part of me wants to see Greipel and Goss make a race of it and run him close, but part of me wants to see him win by a crushingly huge margin like he did two years ago, or even better, like he did in 2009. Either way, it's almost as close to a foregone conclusion as Brad winning yesterday's TT. 

Phenomenal. 

d.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, Cav...
> 
> I've been getting carried away with enjoying Wiggo's overall victory, but it just struck me that if Cav wins today's stage, what an utterly astonishing achievement that would be. Three wins in a row was unprecedented, four would be emphatic confirmation that he deserves the accolade of best ever sprinter in the Tour de France that he was awarded last week.
> 
> ...



Get LL Sanchez up infront just to tie in with him constantly getting owned right near the finish? 

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> The armchair psychoanalysis is much more creepy than Froome's manner and about as well-informed as the armchair DSing.


 
Isn't that what forums are about?


----------



## PaulB (22 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> Anyone know roughly what the ETA is of them hitting Champs Elysses? (sp)
> 
> Doing the sunshine / telly slob trade off thing


 
There's going to be terrorist activity? You should alert the authorities about this toot sweet. ETA is going to hit the TdF! Let panic commence!


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Isn't that what forums are about?



Yes, I suppose so. Maybe I've been spoilt by the generally higher standard of discussion here compared to some other corners of the web - it's given me unreasonably high expectations. 

d.


----------



## Peteaud (22 Jul 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdi4ME1eBpQ


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Yes, I suppose so. Maybe I've been spoilt by the generally higher standard of discussion here compared to some other corners of the web - it's given me unreasonably high expectations.
> 
> d.


 It'll be down to the hardcore this time next week again!


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Maybe I've been spoilt by the generally higher standard of discussion here compared to some other corners of the web - it's given me unreasonably high expectations.


 
A little unfair, no? People have different interests and different levels of understanding. Personally, I like to share opinions and impressions and read those of others. I like different perspective even if it's not an opinion I'll necessarily share. Each to their own eh?

On that subject, I'm going to switch the tele off and do some gardening for an hour. I'm not finding the tour to be compelling viewing at the moment and would prefer to be outside.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> A little unfair, no?



Maybe. 

I'm hardly an expert myself so I'm not criticising anyone's level of knowledge or insight, I just think we can do without personal comments about Froome's character. Sorry if I'm coming across as having a sense of humour failure. 

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

Eurosport has been outdoing itself today - they have just had Abdoujaparov on. I mean, okay, he couldn't say much in English, but he seemed like a very relaxed guy for someone who was probably the scariest-looking sprinter ever.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Yebbut, ITV4 had Peta Todd...so there.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

My day would be complete if they had Lucho Herrera on next...


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Anyone else got goosebumps......?


----------



## Steve H (22 Jul 2012)

This my third year of viewing the Tour de France and have loved every one of them. I know the last day is steeped in tradition, but I can't get my head round this 'non racing' in the run up to the racing in Paris. No other sport is like it. Amazing to see the best riders in the world just cruising along on a nice Sunday ride.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Anyone else got goosebumps......?


Oh yes indeed!


----------



## johnr (22 Jul 2012)

So what's the odds of Brad chasing Cavendish down the Champs, and then announcing in the final press conference, 'Me and Froome have always been best mates; It's that chancer Cavendish who could never follow team orders'? 

To quote the greatest living Englishman, 'Viva la France.'


----------



## johnr (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Anyone else got goosebumps......?


 We're going with chilled champagne


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> The armchair psychoanalysis is much more creepy than Froome's manner and about as well-informed as the armchair DSing.
> 
> d.


thanks alot smutch 
( )


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

Paris looks pretty


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

36km to go before Wiggo can safely fall off


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> 36km to go before Wiggo can safely fall off


Shhhhhhh


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

anyone gonna bet on the guy from the Halfords advert taking the win?


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Is everyone ready? This is bloody historic stuff, this is.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

1945687 said:


> Olympic time trial?


 He'll have a couple of weeks to get up again


----------



## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2012)

Steve H said:


> This my third year of viewing the Tour de France and have loved every one of them. I know the last day is steeped in tradition, but I can't get my head round this 'non racing' in the run up to the racing in Paris. No other sport is like it. Amazing to see the best riders in the world just cruising along on a nice Sunday ride.


Contrary to popular belief there is no rule, written or otherwise, about not racing on the last day. The reason the stage turns into a promenade is because it is short and flat and a break would have little chance of succeeding because every team has someone to contest the finish and they would jump on anything that moved before Paris. It is always a matter of minutes between first and second, almost impossible to bridge on such a stage, but believe me if it ever comes down to a couple of seconds you'll see Holy War break out on the final day.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Is everyone ready? This is bloody historic stuff, this is.


 
I'm eating a packet of crinkle cut salt'n'vinegar crisps.


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> I'm eating a packet of crinkle cut salt'n'vinegar crisps.


fair enough, but what are you drinking eh?


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

I've got a pack of spicy McCoy's


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> I just think we can do without personal comments about Froome's character. Sorry if I'm coming across as having a sense of humour failure.


 
No, it's me that ought apologise. I would have agreed with you if I'd realised that you were referring to negative comments about someone. I wouldn't condone that either. I thought you were referring to amateur discussion generally. My apologies, I misread your meaning.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> fair enough, but what are drinking eh?


 
A pint of water. A really special day - crisps and water. Woohoo!


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

oh yeah, the full monty


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> fair enough, but what are you drinking eh?


 
glass of water. The misses has decided to make a victoria sponge rather than watch the remaining 25km. Fair enough. I'm not going to complain


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Anyone else got goosebumps......?


every year


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

Hmmm, interesting... I think. Commentators have just said the riders are passing behind the Arc de Triomphe for the first time in x years. I thought they always did? I must have misheard.... again


----------



## captainhastings (22 Jul 2012)

gripping stuff now


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Come on Cav


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

Lotto doing the same thing as HTC last year and with the same rider (Bak). Means they don't have to work at all, and Liquigas and Sky have to do all the chasing.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Liggett and Sherwen doing their annual "this break could stay away" routine, the only routine to rate alongside Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First" routine...


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Seriously, is there anything better than this?


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Yates has told Sky to close the gap on this lap.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Sutton has just been interviewed and said Wiggins will be leading out Cav into final km, and then Eddydog will take him in for his sprint.


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Why would the team manager be driving the car? Surely employ a driver and have the manager free to assess data and give orders


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Liquigas and Sky pushing it now.


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Seriously, is there anything better than this?


 
Seriously, yes.... but besides that, it doesn't get much better than this


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

Didn't realise Jens Voigt was 41 - impressive work today.


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

COME ON!!!!!!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Nail that gap, NAIL IT!!!!!


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Jens is a legend!


----------



## Chris.IOW (22 Jul 2012)

Can't watch, come on Sky, Liquigas or anyone....close the gap!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

18" @ 7k


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Why would the team manager be driving the car? Surely employ a driver and have the manager free to assess data and give orders


 
I wondered the same thing yesterday in the time trial when I was watching the BMC team car behind Van Garderen.


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Dinnae worry, they'll catch them....


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Cav winning will be icing on the cake but its still Wiggins' day


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

16" @ 6k


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

15"


----------



## Chris.IOW (22 Jul 2012)

It's coming down....10 secs!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Saxobank at the front????

Let Sky and Liqugas panic and use their energy, then win it....?

Clever


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

6 seconds


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

I hope the lights dinnae turn to red....


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Counting from landmarks I make it 7 seconds


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

2 miles to go


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Told ya.


----------



## User169 (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Sutton has just been interviewed and said Wiggins will be leading out Cav into final km, and then Eddydog will take him in for his sprint.



British GC winner leads out British world champ! How bleedin' cool is that.


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Cav looks relaxed


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Start jumping up and down....


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

All TOGETHER!!!!!!!


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Scream at yer tellies!!!!!!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

I'm Jumping!!!!!


----------



## Chris.IOW (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Start jumping up and down....


 
Best put the laptop down then!!


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2012)

Christ, this is exciting!


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Here we go.....!!!!!!


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

get in


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

Cav can be Boomdog from now on.


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

'kin 'ell


----------



## Chris.IOW (22 Jul 2012)

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. That was textbook, Wiggo and EBH you legends.

Well done to everyone involved with Team Sky, the Perfect day.


----------



## aJohnson (22 Jul 2012)

He was on the front at the final corner and he still managed to keep the lead and win, that's amazing.


----------



## ianrauk (22 Jul 2012)

was always going to be.
Well done Cav and well done Wiggo.


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

Magic finish.


----------



## Ajay (22 Jul 2012)

shoot!!!! as Alan Partridge would say, TOTAL SPORT


----------



## Orange (22 Jul 2012)

Fantastic! Crushing charge by Cav. Brilliant to see Wiggo leading the whole field at the 1km to go marker.


----------



## Fnaar (22 Jul 2012)

Superb finish!!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

I've just aged........


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

Blimey I was a tad worried there! I thought he'd gone too soon!

Brilliant Cavendish, top top performance! The overhead showed it to be comfortable in the end.


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Goss greipel sagan bow down and kiss cavs ring and he aint wearing no jewellery


----------



## ohnovino (22 Jul 2012)

More Tour stage wins than any other sprinter in history!


----------



## gaz (22 Jul 2012)

Take a bow team sky..


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Strugging to type for tears, and can't speak cos of a lump in my throat......


----------



## StuAff (22 Jul 2012)

What a finish! Top job by all at Sky, delighted Cav le domestique got his reward.

Same again next week?


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

Yes - best thing is, only a few days to wait for more excitement!


----------



## threebikesmcginty (22 Jul 2012)

Perfect!


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

my hearts still pounding


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

I might drive down (from darkest Yorkshire) for the Olympic road race, park up somewhere and ride my bike to a quiet part of the course.....


----------



## MattHB (22 Jul 2012)

Absolutely breath taking  top top tour by sky, congrats to wiggins, Cav and the rest of the team


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I might drive down (from darkest Yorkshire) for the Olympic road race, park up somewhere and ride my bike to *a quiet part of the course*.....


...like that's gonna happen now!


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Blimey I was a tad worried there! I thought he'd gone too soon!


me too - and then, suddenly, there he is holding his kid still astride his bike


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

I was seriously worried that he'd gone way too early but then no-one was anywhere near him (in sprint terms) by the end. Goss came at him and faded, Sagan left it too late, and I don't even know where Greipel was. That wasn't the best tactical sprint I have seen Cav do, nor the most spectacular but in terms of sustained speed that may have been the most impressive.


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Surely this has to be the best performance by a team (sky)in the Tdf ever?


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Nearly there said:


> Goss greipel sagan bow down and kiss cavs ring


obviously you mean his chain ring?


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> obviously you mean his chain ring?


Naturally


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

Greipel was surprisingly uncompetitive in the last couple of sprints.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

Who did Hondo bring down?

EDIT: Seemingly it was Sebastien Hinalt.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

Wiggins on the Podium now, it doesn't seem to have sunk in yet and I am sitting he with very little emotion


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Is wiggins cringing at that rabble


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

holy christ - the anthem!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

OMFG......................play the anthem music..........don't go down the american road of having it sung by an ever-dwindling prominence of 'celebrity'


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

That Dress!


----------



## MattHB (22 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> holy christ - the anthem!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's some scary sh1t ms. Garrett


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2012)

Draw the raffle numbers


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Just going to draw the raffle...............


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

WOOP WOOP!!


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Sorensen is the most combative rider of the Tour - I'd just like everyone to know that Thierry Adam thought it should be Voeckler. Tosser.


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

Which reminds me - haven't entered the ITV TdF competition this week yet...


----------



## Nearly there (22 Jul 2012)

Right im off out to play tour de france


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

Greipel was actually beaten by his lead-out man, Henderson. Wonder what happened there?


----------



## GlasgowGaryH (22 Jul 2012)

Who won the raffle?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

And, now that it has finished on Eurosport, we can flick over to ITV4 and watch it all again. Why are they running it a bit later?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2012)

Fokker said:


> Who won the raffle?



Me, but the ticket was left in my pocket and was then accidentally put in the wash


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Greipel was actually beaten by his lead-out man, Henderson. Wonder what happened there?


he's knackered


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

Froome said in his interview that he might not have to change teams to win the TDF - make of that what you will!


----------



## just jim (22 Jul 2012)

The reason Wiggins was given that bowl? Lesley Garrett.


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Sorensen is the most combative rider of the Tour - I'd just like everyone to know that Thierry Adam thought it should be Voeckler. Tosser.


 
That's just plain weird. I thought it was announced yesterday and they spoke about it????

Edit: Ah, sorry, with you now. He thought it *should be* Voeckler, I read it as he thought it *was* Voeckler. Adam is a little too pro-French riders for my liking sometimes - 'sod who's in the top 5, there's a Frenchman 8th' sort of thing!

My enjoyment of it all is being slightly spoilt (not by that awful anthem! but) by Louise Ekland. She's an English presenter here in France (of FA Cup football amongst other things) and I find her highly irritating! She gets wheeled out for anything English really but what she has to do with the TdF or even cycling is a little beyond me.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2012)

If Cav wins on the Champs-Élysées again next year, does he get to keep it?

d.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2012)

rich p said:


> Froome said in his interview that he might not have to change teams to win the TDF - make of that what you will!


 
Well, Brad already said that depending on the route, Froome might be the team leader for the Tour next year.


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> My enjoyment of it all is being slightly spoilt (not by that awful anthem! but) by Louise Eckland.


don't please, that was cringe making


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That's just plain weird. I thought it was announced yesterday and they spoke about it????
> 
> My enjoyment of it all is being slightly spoilt (not by that awful anthem! but) by Louise Eckland. She's a English presenter here in France (of FA Cup football amongst other things) and I find here highly irritating! She gets wheeled out for anything English really but what she has to do with the TdF or even cycling is a little beyond me.


 Maurice Green is roving reporter for Eurosport here. He knows feck all about cycling - acutely embarrassing.


----------



## subaqua (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I might drive down (from darkest Yorkshire) for the Olympic road race, *park up somewhere* and ride my bike to a quiet part of the course.....


 
I suggest Stamford or Grantham and then cycle the rest 

wifey said to me yesterday- do you want to go and watch the road race then !!!!!


----------



## tiswas-steve (22 Jul 2012)

Was it a meat raffle or a round of drinks Prize ?


----------



## Peteaud (22 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> If Cav wins on the Champs-Élysées again next year, does he get to keep it?
> 
> d.


It gets renamed

champ de cav


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

Brad's just refused a beer because he's got the Olympic Games next week!


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

I'm watching it again on ITV+1, I wonder who'll win this time...


----------



## TVC (22 Jul 2012)

Best winners speech ever... safe trip home and don't get too drunk.... What a star!


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

Woops, bad question from the interviewer. 'Was the win for your father, he was a cyclist too?'

Firmly firmly firmly kicked into touch. 'Nothing to do with him. He was my father, that's all''


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> Best winners speech ever... safe trip home and don't get too drunk.... What a star!


 
Yes - makes a change and kind of sticks a pin in the balloon of pretention. Good on him.


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> Best winners speech ever... safe trip home and don't get too drunk.... What a star!


He's still being interviewed here


----------



## johnr (22 Jul 2012)

I knew the TdF was dodgy, but when the boke drawing the raffle wins the first prize, serious questions need to be asked!


----------



## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2012)

After that bloody anthem I think they'll change the rules to ensure a Brit never wins it again.


----------



## YahudaMoon (22 Jul 2012)

Bookies wouldnt take my £5 money on Cav winning todays stage


----------



## crisscross (22 Jul 2012)

Just had my neighbour , the vicar, come round and ask if I was alright!

He heard the screaming as Cav hit that final corner and thought I had done myself an injury with the shouting.

Chapeau Cav, chapeau Team Sky and roll us yer cap Bradley you wonderful Lancastrain! ( via Ghent, Kilburn, London etc)


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2012)

F*ck it, I'm going to have a beer. A toast to Wiggins and Sky. They've kept it tight and on course for 3 weeks. They've known what they've had to do and they've done it. You simply can't knock that. And they've given me some brilliant memories. Cheers guys, this one's for you


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

I missed this first time round, but on reviewing it on ITV+1 Sherwen stated that Cav was "holding up 4 hands" to indicate the number of wins in a row...


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> Bookies wouldnt take my £5 money on Cav winning todays stage


You mean after he'd won?


----------



## Peteaud (22 Jul 2012)

Next years holiday may have to be in France


----------



## raindog (22 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Woops, bad question from the interviewer. 'Was the win for your father, he was a cyclist too?'
> 
> Firmly firmly firmly kicked into touch. 'Nothing to do with him. He was my father, that's all''


haha - absolutely - don't mention dad


----------



## Noodley (22 Jul 2012)

That national anthem was fecking shocking. I missed it first time round, wish I had done likewise second time round as well.


----------



## Keith Oates (22 Jul 2012)

What a great day for Wiggins, Cav and all the riders of the Sky Team for a job well done. The rest of the Sky set up with Dave Brailsford at the head can also be proud of their efforts in aiding the team for the whole year and not just this TdF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chromatic (22 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> That national anthem was fecking shocking. I missed it first time round, wish I had done likewise second time round as well.


 +1
Why didn't they just play the tune?


----------



## Banjo (22 Jul 2012)

Anyone else find the Halfords Adds on itv during the tour coverage seriously irritating? No doubt they will sell a few Halfords Specials on the back of this amazing victory. Bit like the surge in running shoe sales after the London Marathon.


----------



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2012)

Banjo said:


> Anyone else find the Halfords Adds on itv during the tour coverage seriously irritating? No doubt they will sell a few Halfords Specials on the back of this amazing victory. Bit like the surge in running shoe sales after the London Marathon.


 
I find the sheer number of ads -especially in the highlights programme - annoying, but I guess that's the price you pay for the coverage. Seemed to me there were a lot more cycling-related adverts this year, which is something I suppose.


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/227081999691706369/photo/1

Picture paints a thousand words.

Ride your arse off for 2,500+ miles to win then she sings *that*.....


----------



## Steve H (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/227081999691706369/photo/1
> 
> Picture paints a thousand words.
> 
> Ride your arse off for 2,500+ miles to win then she sings *that*.....



Sums it up perfectly


----------



## TVC (22 Jul 2012)

Ref the Anthem, I'm pleased to announce that if the French win gold during the Olympics, we've lined up a due to do their special song:


----------



## threebikesmcginty (22 Jul 2012)

The sporting of mutton chops should now be law, even for girls.


----------



## Kiwiavenger (22 Jul 2012)

I scared the bejesus out of mini kiwi cheering cav et all at the end! Lucky the missus was in work or she'd have had kittens! Now to watch the highlights 

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GlasgowGaryH (22 Jul 2012)

threebikesmcginty said:


> The sporting of mutton chops should now be law, even for girls.


Time for us to grow some mutton chops in praise of Wiggo. Maybe a new thread with pics


----------



## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2012)

Fokker said:


> Time for us to grow some mutton chops in praise of Wiggo. *Maybe a new thread with pics*


Get on with it - it could go viral


----------



## Paulus (22 Jul 2012)

Paulus said:


> As I am well carried away now, who thinks Cav could round the tour off with a win in Paris, led out by Wiggins and Eissel?? I can dream


 

My dream was almost correct, What a great result all round. Roll on next saturday, Wahay!!!!!!


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Jul 2012)

Chromatic said:


> +1
> Why didn't they just play the tune?


I've waited years for our anthem to be played at the end of the Tdf. I was looking forward to hearing it then up pops Leslie bloody Garrett with her high pitched, no tune rubbish!..and that dress! what an embarrassment. BW looked as if to say "what the hell is she doing here"!


----------



## Peter88 (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> I might drive down (from darkest Yorkshire) for the Olympic road race, park up somewhere and ride my bike to a quiet part of the course.....


Am camping in Richmond for the Olympics and plan to see the race go through Richmond Park twice then watch the finish in a local pub


----------



## GlasgowGaryH (22 Jul 2012)

ComedyPilot said:


> Get on with it - it could go viral


Its in the photo gallery forum I think


----------



## Chuffy (22 Jul 2012)

"We're just about to draw the raffle" - best winners speech ever!


----------



## Smokin Joe (22 Jul 2012)

Who'd have thought we'd ever see this?

http://www.lequipe.fr/


----------



## Chuffy (22 Jul 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've waited years for our anthem to be played at the end of the Tdf. I was looking forward to hearing it then up pops Leslie bloody Garrett with her high pitched, no tune rubbish!..and that dress! what an embarrassment. BW looked as if to say "what the hell is she doing here"!


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## Peteaud (22 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


>


 
I would love to ask him what he thought of her.


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## Rob500 (22 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


>


 
Wish I'd had a bowl like that. I'd have stuck on my head and beat the sides with soup ladles till she'd finished.


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## 400bhp (22 Jul 2012)

They could have sung Bob the Builder for all I care.

The important thing is him at the top of the podium - all other pomp & ceremony is surperflous.

Saviour the moment - 100+ years in the making.


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## toby123 (22 Jul 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922103

Great article.


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## Bollo (22 Jul 2012)

Today was just lovely.


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## Willo (22 Jul 2012)

Great day for British cycling, made all the better for me personally when, after I switched on the TV during the early parts of the coverage, my children asking to get their bikes out. Today, of all days, my daughter finally mastered cycling on her own (as great as it was watching them on the Champs Elysees today, seeing her beaming when she finally sussed it was magical) and then taking my 8 year old for a 5 mile ride with him repeatedly passing me out pretending he was Cavendish. 

All sports seem to have adopted this malarky of getting someone in to sing the national anthem - was much better when they just played the music and let the crowd do the rest.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (22 Jul 2012)

so proud to be a cyclist today, well done Sky, Wiggo, Cav and the rest,
so proud, brought a teat to my eye when Cav won


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## kevin_cambs_uk (22 Jul 2012)

The Velvet Curtain said:


> Ref the Anthem, I'm pleased to announce that if the French win gold during the Olympics, we've lined up a due to do their special song:


 

LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quality mate


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## PaulB (22 Jul 2012)

I was full of total admiration for this unparalleled performance by a British athlete but now, I am full of French Champagne in joyful celebration.


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## Bollo (22 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Who'd have thought we'd ever see this?
> 
> http://www.lequipe.fr/


It did make me chuckle.

Based on my p1ss poor French, the articles seem positive but many of the reader comments are a little tangy. You'd think the next Sky Ride will be filled with 4-year-olds 'prepared' on HGH and Tixylix cracking out 14 minute 10ks on Like-a-bikes.


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## Twizit (22 Jul 2012)

Willo said:


> Today, of all days, my daughter finally mastered cycling on her own (as great as it was watching them on the Champs Elysees today, seeing her beaming when she finally sussed it was magical) and then taking my 8 year old for a 5 mile ride with him repeatedly passing me out pretending he was Cavendish. .



Ditto. Youngest son got it sorted this morning then couldn't get him off his bike. Clearly I'm hoping this happening on the day Wiggo won is a good omen....


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## Speicher (22 Jul 2012)

kevin_cambs_uk said:


> so proud to be a cyclist today, well done Sky, Wiggo, Cav and the rest,
> so proud, brought a teat to my eye when Cav won


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## Scoosh (22 Jul 2012)

Scoosh said:


> So what we need for 'the icing on the cake' is for Cav to win the Champs Elysée sprint - led out by the full team, with Wiggins giving it laldy like he did at the World Champs.
> 
> That will be something !


That was the cake, with icing, cream, a cherry on top ... and sprinkles ! 

Perfect ! 

Now:
- Olympic Road Race Gold for Cav
- Olympic TT - Wiggins and Froome in Gold and Silver (in either order)

... then it's all downhill for the rest of the year !


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## Norm (22 Jul 2012)

kevin_cambs_uk said:


> so proud to be a cyclist today, well done Sky, Wiggo, Cav and the rest,
> so proud, brought a *teat* to my eye when Cav won





Speicher said:


>


   
I bet he'll, ahem, feel a bit of a tit when he realises what he wrote.

Small Norm I has really got into the TdF over the last few days, asking questions about tactics, how the timings work, why so many finish on the same time, what the different sections are about, what the various jersey colours mean. It's helped that the last 3 days have produced Cav's steam-train finish, Wiggins' dominance on the time trial and reeling in the break-away today but he actually wanted not only to watch the race live earlier but then wanted to watch it again on the highlights show.


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## PaulB (22 Jul 2012)

I know the weather's been better for the last few days but there's been no doubt in my mind that there are many more cyclists around than is usual. I had a mechanical today that forced me to finish my ride on the L-L canal and there were lots of mothers and fathers beaming at their kids as they got the hang of cycling. A truly wonderful sight. Mr. Wiggins, you are are steely-eyed missile man!


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## Andy_R (22 Jul 2012)

Small boy has really got the bug too....asked for his next Islabike to be a Luath. Spent all of 10 minutes a few weeks ago explaining jerseys etc to him; clicked. He actually said today "Wiggins is leading Cav out isn't he." Spent over 20 minutes today explaining jerseys etc to Mrs R and she still don't get it.......


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

I can now get the bike back out again in the knowledge that I won't miss anything!


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

beanzontoast said:


> I find the sheer number of ads -especially in the highlights programme - annoying, but I guess that's the price you pay for the coverage. Seemed to me there were a lot more cycling-related adverts this year, which is something I suppose.



That's why I liked to watch Eurosport. Yes, the adverts like the one for the Sidi Shoes was a bit dodgy, but at least they usually kept them to a minimum, and, we were treated to this wonderful little advert, which will no doubt be mimicked by kids young and old up and down the country now:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BwnuBVUBsQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player





Kiwiavenger said:


> I scared the bejesus out of mini kiwi cheering cav et all at the end! Lucky the missus was in work or she'd have had kittens! Now to watch the highlights
> 
> Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2



Up until it happened, I'd have said that I'd be there celebrating and cheering them on, but, when it happened, I just sat there and watched it without any emotion. Maybe it was because it was seen as being a sure thing, I don't know, but I just watched very matter of factly instead.

For the record however, I will be naming the last unnamed Goldfish we have Wiggo now, so it isn't all bad in the MDB household! 

Hopefully Wiggo will go and live in a pond soon, although he is quite a nice fish just to sit and watch.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


>


Yes that's that look!  ... a great pic by the way.


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes that's that look!  ... a great pic by the way.



Was watching it live and you could actually see the moment when he started to cringe.


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## perplexed (23 Jul 2012)

As Brad mounted the top step, and Lesley bloody Garrett turned up, I just though "oh no, please no, anything but that..."

The National Athem is a total embarrasment at the best of times, it's utterly excrutiating and cringe-worthy in it's backside kissing.

I could have tolerated it if they'd just played the tune, but jesus, the words... This isn't 1800 anymore for pity's sake.

Anybody in authority who thought that that was a good image to present to the world should be given a £50 Asda special with the forks on back to front, and made to ride up the Tourmalet 10 times, backwards, with half inflated knobbly tyres and bricks in their pockets. With no supper.


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## YahudaMoon (23 Jul 2012)

Just tuned in for Radio 5 Live and got shivers down my spine


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> Just tuned in for Radio 5 Live and got shivers down my spine



Stephen Roche is on in few mins to tell us how Wiggo will be feeling this morning (as if we can't already guess).


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

He's on now along with some other talking heads.

Edit: Well, that was a much about nothing.....


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## BrumJim (23 Jul 2012)

My first child will be born in December. Trying to persuade my wife that BrumBradley would be a good name. She's not convinced.


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

BrumJim said:


> My first child will be born in December. Trying to persuade the wife that BrumBradley would be a good name. She's not convinced.



As I said somewhere previously, I have just named one of my Goldfish Wiggo. That's a Goldfish though!


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## srw (23 Jul 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> how Wiggo will be feeling this morning (as if we can't already guess).


Presumably looking forward to the next job - Saturday's Olympic road race.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> As Brad mounted the top step, and Lesley bloody Garrett turned up, I just though "oh no, please no, anything but that..."
> 
> The National Athem is a total embarrasment at the best of times, it's utterly excrutiating and cringe-worthy in it's backside kissing.
> 
> ...


 

Leslie Garretts performance, and dress were like something out of The Good Old Days(1970's old time music hall show.. for you younger ones). It was cringingly embarrassing, and as you say the music alone would have done the job. I remember whenever Armstrong won, they played the yank anthem but no bum kissing words, so nobody felt embarrassed.
The silly publicity seeking moo was crafty though! She'll forever be part of BW's history making achievement, meaning that in years to come when we look back at this years tour, and the presentation of the title, her stupid voice, and stupid facial expressions will be there for all to see..FOREVER!!!!


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2012)

I thought that David Beckham might have jumped on the bandwagon, and been there yesterday. Maybe BW will eventually be summoned to "Beckingham palace" for an audience with the "Sporting Royal Family"!

I can picture his words..." You are amazing, totally amazing! In fact we were all amazed by your amazing win". ..and that'll be it!


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## asterix (23 Jul 2012)

perplexed said:


> As Brad mounted the top step, and Lesley bloody Garrett turned up, I just though "oh no, please no, anything but that..."
> 
> The National Athem is a total embarrasment at the best of times, it's utterly excrutiating and cringe-worthy in it's backside kissing.
> 
> ...


 
Yep. On Bastille day round here they play national anthems. The Marseillaise, wakes everyone up, Flower of Scotland, great stuff. Then it's God Save the Queen, aaarrggghh! What a downer.. I reckon we'll win a lot more medals at the Olympics if they change the anthem. And definitely the 'singer'.


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## srw (23 Jul 2012)

1946835 said:


> I thought he was committed to the time trial. Is it still open to negotiation?


 The TT is the following Wednesday. Most performers focus on the next performance, not the next but one.


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## smutchin (23 Jul 2012)

asterix said:


> Yep. On Bastille day round here they play national anthems. The Marseillaise, wakes everyone up, Flower of Scotland, great stuff. Then it's God Save the Queen, aaarrggghh! What a downer.. I reckon we'll win a lot more medals at the Olympics if they change the anthem. And definitely the 'singer'.


 
Can you imagine this scene if they'd had to sing God Save The Queen instead?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM


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## fimm (23 Jul 2012)

Is it possible to watch any of the highlights anywhere? I forgot to put ITV4 on till near the end of the highlights programme yesterday (my feeble excuse is that I'd been away for the weekend...)


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## ColinJ (23 Jul 2012)

I think it is time that someone started a campaign for a new national anthem! Perhaps it could be called CAMRANT?


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## rich p (23 Jul 2012)

1946927 said:


> Ah, I thought it was one or other with no propect of both.


Froome, Wiggins for the ITT with Stannard, Cav and Millar joining them for the road race.


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

1946720 said:


> A gold fish with sideburns? Where did you get that, somewhere near Dungeness B?



I was just thinking that I need to take a picture of him and then photoshop some in!


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## srw (23 Jul 2012)

IIRC, the TT riders _have_ to be part of the team for the RR.

Am I successfully giving the illusion of knowing a lot about pro bike racing?


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Can you imagine this scene if they'd had to sing God Save The Queen instead?
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM




I'm sure I wasn't the only one who got the complete irony of it all. I mean, they said in the commentary that where they were was where they used to bring the Aristocracy to be Guillotined, and yet, we had Lesley Garrat there singing 

'God Save The Queen'


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

Psst, here, you couldn't get an old Guillotine out and finish off Lesley at the same time could you?


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## Scoosh (23 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Is it possible to watch any of the highlights anywhere? I forgot to put ITV4 on till near the end of the highlights programme yesterday (my feeble excuse is that I'd been away for the weekend...)


Try ITV Player - if it's not worn out by now !


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Is it possible to watch any of the highlights anywhere? I forgot to put ITV4 on till near the end of the highlights programme yesterday (my feeble excuse is that I'd been away for the weekend...)


ITV4 are showing the Paris stage highlights in 6 minutes!!! (13:00)


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Jul 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I'm sure I wasn't the only one who got the complete irony of it all. I mean, they said in the commentary that where they were was where they used to bring the Aristocracy to be Guillotined, and yet, we had Lesley Garrat there singing
> 
> 'God Save The Queen'


 
Oh, I don't know - I thought it was the most spine-chilling execution of the national anthem I've ever heard.


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## fimm (23 Jul 2012)

Thank you.


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Thank you.



You are welcome, but, what for?


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## Watt-O (23 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Oh, I don't know - I thought it was the most spine-chilling execution of the national anthem I've ever heard.


I found Garret's rendition of our rather naff national anthem buttock clenchingly embarassing - Christ was that Ginger Spice's old dress? Poor old Brad did well to keep his dignity. Still, it didn't detract from the super individual and team performances.


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## Mr Celine (23 Jul 2012)

In his various press conferences Wiggo never even hinted at claiming victory until he was over the last mountain, but did he ever actually say "it's not over till the fat lady sings"?

If he did say that, then it's his own bloody fault.


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## fimm (23 Jul 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> You are welcome, but, what for?


Answering my question about watching on catch-up that I asked about 3 posts back.


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## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2012)

fimm said:


> Answering my question about watching on catch-up that I asked about 3 posts back.



Oh. Thought it was something important there!  
Anyway, it was Scoosh what told you, but I seem to have hijacked it instead.


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## tigger (23 Jul 2012)

Well all I can say is... I was there!!!  Saw the TT and The Paris finish. Absolutely bloody brilliant weekend. Too tired to share my experiences (so many) but it truly was amazing. So proud of all of Team Sky's achievements. Absolutely deserving winner and an all conquering team behind him. Brits ruled... we were everywhere!


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## PaulB (23 Jul 2012)

How many can you get? http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/tourdefrance


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## Chuffy (23 Jul 2012)

PaulB said:


> How many can you get? http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/tourdefrance


I got 60.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (23 Jul 2012)

Norm said:


> I bet he'll, ahem, feel a bit of a tit when he realises what he wrote.
> 
> Small Norm I has really got into the TdF over the last few days, asking questions about tactics, how the timings work, why so many finish on the same time, what the different sections are about, what the various jersey colours mean. It's helped that the last 3 days have produced Cav's steam-train finish, Wiggins' dominance on the time trial and reeling in the break-away today but he actually wanted not only to watch the race live earlier but then wanted to watch it again on the highlights show.


 
LMAO!
spell check disaster !
no wonder I had so many likes!


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## johnr (23 Jul 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Oh, I don't know - I thought it was the most spine-chilling execution of the national anthem I've ever heard.


 ... and puts the lie to all that talk of Sky's meticulous planning. If the TdF organisers insist on choosing the words they could at least have Weller doing the backing.. I'm sure Pete Townshend would step in if he's not available.

If Wiggins is in the same position next year, he'll be claiming asylum in the Belgian Embassy after the 9th lap..

And didn't the US ambassador look cool handing over the white jersey.


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## carolonabike (24 Jul 2012)

I would like to thank all of you who posted on this thread. I don't post very often but I have read every post on this thread and have really enjoyed all the discussions and comments. It's been a lively and informative thread and I'll miss it.
And that photo of Brad looking at Lesley Garrett has made a grisly day at work just that little bit better.


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## pally83 (24 Jul 2012)

carolonabike said:


> I would like to thank all of you who posted on this thread. I don't post very often but I have read every post on this thread and have really enjoyed all the discussions and comments. It's been a lively and informative thread and I'll miss it.
> And that photo of Brad looking at Lesley Garrett has made a grisly day at work just that little bit better.



I'd like to second that. It has been informative and hugely entertaining. Apart from the boring facts, obviously.


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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> I got 60.


 
63. 

I didn't get 1966 or 1967.


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> 63.
> 
> I didn't get 1966 or 1967.


 
I got 61. well, I actually got 62, but the software wouldn't accept Van Impe in any form. Didn't get 50, 56, 60 or 67.


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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I got 61. well, I actually got 62, but the software wouldn't accept Van Impe in any form. Didn't get 50, 56, 60 or 67.


 
Aye, I typed in van Impe a few times, then missed out the "van". There were a few spelling errors on the way as well, getting my vowels in the wrong order etc.


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## Doseone (24 Jul 2012)




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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

Eh?


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## User169 (24 Jul 2012)

Doseone said:


> View attachment 11139


 
 I did wonder when one of those would appear!


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## Chuffy (24 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Eh?


That makes two of us.


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## Chuffy (24 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I got 61. well, I actually got 62, but the software wouldn't accept Van Impe in any form. Didn't get 50, 56, 60 or 67.


I wouldn't have got Pingeon (1967) or Lucien Van Impe (1976) with a half hour time limit and a copy of All The Tour Winners Ever beside me.

I think they made them up.


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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> I wouldn't have got...or Lucien Van Impe (1976) .


 
You would have done if you had read the Eddy Merckx biography that have have been reading...


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## Chuffy (24 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> You would have done if you had read the Eddy Merckx biography that have have been reading...


So you cheated then?


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## smutchin (24 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> You would have done if you had read the Eddy Merckx biography that have have been reading...


 
Is that the Daniel Friebe one? I've got a copy of that to start as soon as I've finished the Reg Harris biography...

I got 50-something. Some I just couldn't remember, others I really didn't know - 50, 51, 56, 60. To my shame, I couldn't remember Oscar Pereiro or Carlos Sastre. I think that's me off the pub quiz team.

d.


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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> So you cheated then?


 
If reading the book last week is cheating, then I suppose so


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## Noodley (24 Jul 2012)

smutchin said:


> Is that the Daniel Friebe one?


 
William Fotheringham version.


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## PaulB (25 Jul 2012)

It's the spelling that drives me mad. If you were on University challenge and the answer to a question was Eddy Merckx and you said 'Eddie Merx', you'd be correct but the spelling Nazis on Sporcle demand you get the not only the spelling right, but it has to be AMERICAN spelling! And Van Impe isn't accepted but Lucien Van Impe is!


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## VamP (25 Jul 2012)

User3094 said:


> I only got 30 - but it took me 1/2 the time to spell Merckx and I couldnt for the life of me remember how to spell Anqutil (sp - obviously).


 
Oh well done for admitting to such a low score! I got 39 but was going to keep schtum until I saw your post...


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## Flying_Monkey (25 Jul 2012)

I wouldn't have got anywhere near 60 if they'd asked for the specific years etc. It's a lot easier when it fills in the correct years for you when you just know a name. Essentially, if you can remember the names of a load of great post-war cyclists, you can pretty much blitz the thing until you get most of them.


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## Noodley (25 Jul 2012)

Yep, much to be said for just typing in any old names you know and hoping for the best!


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## Smokin Joe (25 Jul 2012)

Noodley said:


> Yep, much to be said for just typing in any old names you know and hoping for the best!


That's cheating


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## Noodley (25 Jul 2012)

Nope, that's knowing how the game works and using that knowledge to your advantage.


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## gavroche (25 Jul 2012)

I got 52


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## bof (25 Jul 2012)

Joop Zoetemelk - couldnt get him spelt right for love or money and I speak and read Dutch.

Tried the country population quiz (basically list the top 8 by population for each continent) on the same site and if you got a country just below the top 8 (I'll give you Netherlands) it ended the quiz. Stupidly addictive and I wasted a lot of time getting it mainly right,except for Oceania - after the top 3 it's name the Pacific Islands you only see in country dropdown lists.

I eventually decided after failing on the bottom rank country in Africa more than once to get a life.


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## dellzeqq (25 Jul 2012)

goshdarn it - only 51. I got Koblet with a second to go - perhaps the 24 inch picture of him on my living room wall might have reminded me earlier!

Didn't get Sastre, couldn't spell Bartali


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## zimzum42 (25 Jul 2012)

46 - But I wasn't born during the war like most of you guys!


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## beastie (26 Jul 2012)

52 i got most  all since the 70's but I am very young. It took me about a minute to come up with Pereiro and about another minute to spell Merckx.


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## perplexed (26 Jul 2012)

zimzum42 said:


> 46 - But I wasn't born during the war like most of you guys!


 
Yeah, the Boer war was quite a while ago wasn't it?


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## PpPete (26 Jul 2012)

Came across this (somewhat belatedly) today.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-tommy-guns-of-the-tour-de-france

Just loved this passage....


> It got me thinking of the ultimate nightmare situation: there you are in the break barely having survived the selection process that entails, and your companions de jour are Tommy V, Jens Voigt, LL Sanchez and Peter Sagan.
> All day Tommy would be talking to you, an evolving mix of encouragement, heckling, shouting and moaning, Jens would be riding like only he can, probably spurred on by a never ending version of Sandstorm by Darude being played down to him through his own channel on the team radio. Luis León Sánchez would be figuring out when he was going to catch you eating or drinking and if none of that cracks you before the finish then Sagan would monster the sprint. Therapy would be needed.
> And another thing, you know those cheesy expressions, stuff like pain is temporary - glory is forever, walk the line, the kind of stuff you find on cereal packets and over marketed special editions, well I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Voeckler had none of that banality on his top tube for inspiration. He's more likely to look down at a version of Gordon Ramsey's omelette recipe as his thoughts for the day.


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## Milzy (4 Jul 2022)

Yeah there’s some great insights by Pippa York. 
I frown upon so called cyclists who don’t know who Robert M was. 


View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7xtidTJSt6yGQNMYrD8tKw?si=vzgGXR9wSHaLjG97EJaSVQ&utm_source=whatsapp


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## DRM (4 Jul 2022)

Blimey, that’s from 10 years ago!


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