# My latest acquisition - an as-yet unknown 52cm (20.5")model - Benotto.



## TheCyclingRooster (6 Sep 2014)

Hi to you all out there - yes I am probably nuts but ever since I saw the Model 3000 belonging to Malcolm Summers on the Classic Lightweight UK site I have been looking out for one that my rather short stature could cope with. 

Last night just after securing it on E'bay I sent this message out to a very knowledgeable Benotto owner/rider :-

I have just secured a 52cm Benotto that has been sadly neglected and is in need of Short Stature Male Nursing Skills (I have put myself up for the job).

Oh well - long winter months in rural West Lancashire can become quite fruitful.


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## biggs682 (7 Sep 2014)

@TheCyclingRooster you are teasing us , we need pics please

next time anybody wants an Italian Beauty please ask me first


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## TheCyclingRooster (7 Sep 2014)

Hi biggs682. Nice collection of machines but I could not ride any of them even with my 140mm Thorn Cranks ( I'm 4' 10" with a 23" inside leg).
As for the pics - I have not transferred the initial purchase ones to the annoying Picture Hosting site.

Is there a way of taking them directly from my PC?

I had a look and commented on your Facebook page and to pick up-on a comment by yourself :---

"well that was a glorious 20 mile early am ride today on the Soens , its hard work only having 6 close ratio gears but it was worth it" 
Back in the mid 60's I would ride into work every morning on my 19.5" Fixed Wheel 1937 Hetchins Track Frame on Sprints & Tubs - a run of some 8miles with a Duffle Bag on my back and then back home at night - Yes the morning run was always quite invigorating and it set me up for the day.


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## biggs682 (10 Sep 2014)

@TheCyclingRooster there are a couple of ways of doing photos , easiest way i find is to post them on face book then save the ones you want to use on to the pc and then they are the right file size to be able to post on here and any other forum you want to .

Shame you have no pics of the Hetchins as well .

Just a tip if you use the @ in front of a members id they get a message to let them know they were tagged in 

Next time on facebook give me like they are free


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## TheCyclingRooster (10 Sep 2014)

Hi biggs682. I will get my head around this later this evening - I am off to collect the Benotto and a quick visit to Atlantic Boulevard in Bury,Lancashire on the way back home.
I can show you images of the Hetchins both before and after it was nicked by some low-life and stripped totally naked and the double crown forks removed.


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## TheCyclingRooster (15 Sep 2014)

Hi to @biggs682 and those that might be following this item. Here are a few images of the bike as it was upon reaching home with it. The bike is now striped and ready for a completely new identity - it has well-worn-out the current suite of cloths.
I am intending keeping chrome forks (possible new ones) and having the frame Stove Enamelled ( NOT painted like a car).
Because the frame will be reinstated as a Retro it it is probably going to be African Violet with a Champagne seat-tube panel and head-tube with the lugs lined in Champagne.
If I rebuild this Benotto as per the original specification I will not be able to ride it - I need 140mm cranks since a total left knee replacement in November 2007.


In contrast to this Benotto - A few rather old Mono Chrome images of my old 1937 Hetchins Vibrant Triangle 2day special event track frame after it had been converted for road use.
The 'All Black' images were pre - being nicked by some Liverpudlian Low Life back in the middle 60's and the image with the Chrome Forks was after I got just the frame back minus the original forks and all of the good kit. I then rebuilt it.
Note the silly BIG FAT oilskin cape-roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## biggs682 (15 Sep 2014)

@TheCyclingRooster that is a great looking bike , must admit I would be tempted to just give it a good deep clean and use in as is condition just for the originality


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## TheCyclingRooster (15 Sep 2014)

Hi biggs682. The images do not really show the state that the bike is in - Indeed I would not be seen dead and propped up on it.
The 700c's whilst had clearly covered very little mileage at all are perished and severely cracked. Some of the spokes are badly rusted and at risk of causing wheel collapses.
There was no rear functioning brake but the lever and calliper were there. 
The front Shimano 105 shifter is bent and did not function.
The saddle is a rather old crappy and damaged Cinelli Unicanitor leather one
The bike in real terms is a recoverable basket-case. Currently - some would say that it might be better scrapped and recycled into cans for Italian Peeled Plum Tomatoes!!!!!!!!!!!!

Watch this space - it is going to C&G Finishes next week albeit I have had it to Atlantic Boulevard in Bury,Lancashire, Liverpool is easier and closer and they are Fellow Scousers. 

What did you think of the Hetchins? - albeit the images are from way-way back in 1964.


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## TheCyclingRooster (29 Sep 2014)

Hi to you all. Just a quick update. I have now got a pair of new & genuine Pantograph Benotto Chromed Forks. The frame and forks that I bought are now with C&G Finishes,Liverpool and are going to be Stove Enamelled in a Metallic Blue that will not clash with the blue on the Benotto Decals. The forks will be put aside in favour of the genuine chromed ones.
The frame is having the top cable guides removed and cable stops are being put underneath the top-tube. I intend having the nutted rear bridge changed in favour of an Allen Key bridge.
I am unsure whether to retain the down-tube changers and the original Nuovo Gran Sport dérailleur along with the Campagnolo front shifter or go for a modern set-up with a 8spd and Mirage/Veloce levers and further upgrade with a triple as opposed to the original double.


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## uphillstruggler (3 Nov 2014)

Looking forward to seeing the results of the refurb


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## TheCyclingRooster (3 Nov 2014)

uphillstruggler said:


> Looking forward to seeing the results of the refurb



Hi uphillstruggler. The Benotto is now wearing a new coat of Stove Enamel and it is a total change from the Champagne of the original choice by Benotto.
The forks that were with the bike were OK but lightly pitted. 'In for a Penny - In for a Pound' actually many many many pounds - hence the new Benotto forks from Hungary,the original forks were stripped and re-finished as per the frame and they will remain as spare.
The bike is now in the throws of being built-up and is standing on a rather nice but not expensive new wheels with Vittoria Rubino rubber on them.
I would envisage a couple of weeks and she will be rolling - with me on-board.


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## DCLane (3 Nov 2014)

@TheCyclingRooster - what are you doing for decals?

I've got a similar bike which will be looked at once the LBS have sorted out a stuck carbon seatpost.

I've a pair of NOS Benotto chrome forks for it via eBay which will be fitted shortly.


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## uphillstruggler (3 Nov 2014)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> Hi uphillstruggler. The Benotto is now wearing a new coat of Stove Enamel and it is a total change from the Champagne of the original choice by Benotto.
> The forks that were with the bike were OK but lightly pitted. 'In for a Penny - In for a Pound' actually many many many pounds - hence the new Benotto forks from Hungary,the original forks were stripped and re-finished as per the frame and they will remain as spare.
> The bike is now in the throws of being built-up and is standing on a rather nice but not expensive new wheels with Vittoria Rubino rubber on them.
> I would envisage a couple of weeks and she will be rolling - with me on-board.



in for a pound sounds about right, these things are never cheap but its worth it to have the bike that you really want rather than what you can put up with.

any up to date images?


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## TheCyclingRooster (3 Nov 2014)

DCLane said:


> @TheCyclingRooster - what are you doing for decals?
> 
> I've got a similar bike which will be looked at once the LBS have sorted out a stuck carbon seatpost.
> 
> I've a pair of NOS Benotto chrome forks for it via eBay which will be fitted shortly.




Hi DCL. The Decals were sourced by C&G Finishes,Liverpool albeit I could have got the same ones from several E'bay advertises. The only one that seems to be unavailable is the Paris - Roubaix one. The Benotto is actually a Paris - Roubaix edition. The dilemma that I was in - was not choosing a colour that classed with the Benotto Blue but also allowed the white name and outline to be perfectly visible.
The Benotto Pantograph forks that I have also came from E'bay - a seller called deansbailey in Budapest,Hungary.


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## DCLane (3 Nov 2014)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> Hi DCL. The Decals were sourced by C&G Finishes,Liverpool albeit I could have got the same ones from several E'bay advertises. The only one that seems to be unavailable is the Paris - Roubaix one. The Benotto is actually a Paris - Roubaix edition. The dilemma that I was in - was not choosing a colour that classed with the Benotto Blue but also allowed the white name and outline to be perfectly visible.
> The Benotto Pantograph forks that I have also came from E'bay - a seller called deansbailey in Budapest,Hungary.


 
I've the same issue; mine's also a Paris-Roubaix one and appears to be only 25 bikes later than yours  . Or was until the previous owner made a mess of it. This one's mine - as you can see it's been 'messed about with' a little with only the frame, shifters and brakes being original:











Thinking so far is:

- Get the stuck seatpost removed; it's upside down in the LBS with a load of WD40 in the tube!
- Respray in gold. Possibly, although I might just leave as is.
- Organise some decals
- Change the forks for the originals I've picked up.
- Replace the wheelset as I've a nice Giepiemme set / replace the front with a Mavic MA2 to match the rear.
- New saddle / seatpost as I've a NOS one.


Aim for 2015's L'Eroica Britannia.


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## TheCyclingRooster (3 Nov 2014)

uphillstruggler said:


> in for a pound sounds about right, these things are never cheap but its worth it to have the bike that you really want rather than what you can put up with.
> 
> any up to date images?




Hi again uphillstrugger. The point about re-building this Benotto is that it is for me and not to comply with 'Period Faithful' kit. That would not/could not happen anyway because I can no-longer ride 170mm cranks,I am on 140mm Thorn cranks with Stronglight rings. I am looking to build a triple (24:36:50) or (24:38:52) with a Shimano 7spd screw-on 14 - 28.
I have newly built wheels but have also had the original Mavic MA2 rims and Miche small flange hubs rebuilt with stainless spokes.
The original choice of Campagnolo Down-tube shifters but with a Campagnolo triple dérailleur and the Nuovo Grand Sport rear derailleur are going to be my drive-chain operating choices.
Currently the alloy bars are grooved for aero levers and mounted on a traditional 125mm aluminium stem but with non-aero levers and exposed cables.

This 'Re-born Benotto is really going to look the 'Dogs Danglers' when out and about in the lanes of West Lancashire.


My next re-build project is a 2003 Steve Goff frame-set that is in a fabulous Cobalt Blue Metallic. It has been started by having the braze-on clamp mount removed and a few cosmetic blemishes attended to. The frame will be going to C&G Finishes,Liverpool for some serious looking-at and probably a new Cobalt Blue jacket but in a flamboyant finish along with some Chrome forks.


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## TheCyclingRooster (3 Nov 2014)

DCLane said:


> I've the same issue; mine's also a Paris-Roubaix one and appears to be only 25 bikes later than yours  . Or was until the previous owner made a mess of it. This one's mine - as you can see it's been 'messed about with' a little with only the frame, shifters and brakes being original:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi again DCL. You say you are :- Replace the wheelset as I've a nice Giepiemme set

Do you mean the Chain-set? 
Interestingly enough,my Benotto came from Leeds (St Vincent Charity) and the bike had a Gipiemme 52-42 on it (now on E'bay) because I will never ride 170mm cranks again and when I die the bike will be going with me - into the 'After-life'.


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## uphillstruggler (3 Nov 2014)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> Hi again uphillstrugger. The point about re-building this Benotto is that it is for me and not to comply with 'Period Faithful' kit. That would not/could not happen anyway because I can no-longer ride 170mm cranks,I am on 140mm Thorn cranks with Stronglight rings. I am looking to build a triple (24:36:50) or (24:38:52) with a Shimano 7spd screw-on 14 - 28.
> I have newly built wheels but have also had the original Mavic MA2 rims and Miche small flange hubs rebuilt with stainless spokes.
> The original choice of Campagnolo Down-tube shifters but with a Campagnolo triple dérailleur and the Nuovo Grand Sport rear derailleur are going to be my drive-chain operating choices.
> Currently the alloy bars are grooved for aero levers and mounted on a traditional 125mm aluminium stem but with non-aero levers and exposed cables.
> ...



I wish you the best of luck with this project, it looked pretty darn good before the work so am looking forward to the finished bike. the next one sounds good too.

I get out and about in your neck of the woods sometimes when working that way, great lanes to ride around.


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## DCLane (3 Nov 2014)

@TheCyclingRooster - no, it's got a 9-speed carbon Pazazz crankset. Along with carbon forks / seatpost 

The replacement wheelset is Giepiemme although the original Mavic rear has a 9-speed titanium Campag Record cassette.


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## steveindenmark (3 Nov 2014)

You are going to get 2 different trains of thought here. It will be 50% to keep it original and 50% to strip it and make it like new. My advice is that it is your money and your bike, do it as you want it. If you are going to strip it. It is far simpler to take the frame to a car sprayer and let them strip it and spray it in a colour you choose. It is not expensive and saves so much time and effort.

It is only my opinion but I have been in the same situation.


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## TheCyclingRooster (3 Nov 2014)

It is only my opinion but I have been in the same situation.[/QUOTE]


steveindenmark said:


> You are going to get 2 different trains of thought here. It will be 50% to keep it original and 50% to strip it and make it like new. My advice is that it is your money and your bike, do it as you want it. If you are going to strip it. It is far simpler to take the frame to a car sprayer and let them strip it and spray it in a colour you choose. It is not expensive and saves so much time and effort.
> 
> It is only my opinion but I have been in the same situation.



Hi Steve (in Denmark). As I have previously pointed out, I could not re-build a faithful to original example if I wanted to - because of my replacement left knee and the limitations of the bend at the top of the pedal stroke - made worse by my rather short stature. The decision to re-build it 'for me' rather than for 'The School of The Faithful' was simply cut and dried.
As far as re-finishing the frame goes,it has been correctly Stove Enamelled and not spray painted or God Forgive - Powder Coated.
The decision to take it to C&G Finishes was quite simply because I have knowledge of their work since the early 60's when they were in Back Faulkner Street,Liverpool and I have most highly recommended them to many others over the years albeit the original owners have long since severed their links with the business.
Their current premises are easy to get to and especially from the South of The City and the motorway networks of the M6/M62/M56.


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

A huuuuuuggge hello to you all. Well the Benotto is all but needing a few tweaks to finish it albeit I have not been out on it yet.
Spinning the rear wheel and operating the friction shifters with the bike suspended has flagged up a few issues that were partly expected but will be/are being addressed.
I have realised that a 26 tooth rear sprocket is very definitely the largest that will work with the short cage Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport rear dérailleur.
It is also looking like a 26 tooth inner of 3 rings is the smallest that will function without chain slap. I just might stick with the current 24T until my new 7spd 13-25 screw-on arrives.
Since taking the early images, I have added a Chrome Effect vinyl chain-stay protector.
I sourced a Campagnolo metal self adhesive one - it has Campagnolo on in blue. It is quite something - but at £18.99 + £7.00 postage !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





















To get the full effect of the change to this once sadly neglected steed - refer back to my post of 15th September.


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## Cycleops (16 Nov 2014)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> because I will never ride 170mm cranks again and when I die the bike will be going with me - into the 'After-life'.


That'll be interesting to see.


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

Cycleops said:


> That'll be interesting to see.



Hi Cycleops. I guess by you rather short reply that - you are already there!!!!!!!!!! . Could it be that you were really referring to the 170mm crank comment?
I can assure you that unless they do a total double leg transplant or many years of painful lengthening by orthopaedic procedure - I am stuck with 140mm cranks.


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## Cycleops (16 Nov 2014)

No, I was referring to the bike accompanying you into the afterlife!


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

Cycleops said:


> No, I was referring to the bike accompanying you into the afterlife!



Hi again Cycleops. I think it would be by special dispensation. I am destined to be cremated, so the frame and everything that is on it would be incinerated in the oven and anything that didn't the first time would almost certainly get fried in the lower quarters.


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## YahudaMoon (16 Nov 2014)

Hi

Ive not read all up thread, though you say its for L'Eroica Britannia?

The Italian L'Eroica are strict on genuine period parts, In not sure about the English one

Will you be able to enter with them modern wheels, tyres,saddle and brakes ect?

Nice job by the way


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

YahudaMoon said:


> Hi
> 
> Ive not read all up thread, though you say its for L'Eroica Britannia?
> 
> ...



Hi YahudaMoon. I don't recall ever saying that the Benotto was going up for anything but indeed I did state that it was going to be a sympathetic retro-build project.
It could not possibly be a faithful rebuild project simply because I cannot ride 170mm,172.5mm or even 175mm cranks that would have been period kit.
Since my total left knee replacement in November 2007 I have found that I can only ride a maximum of 140mm cranks (Tandem - Stoker) - courtesy of SJS Cycles and their Thorn brand. I am using Stronglight rings on a triple set-up. All of my bikes,some built and sold-on,some retained have all be built the same way.
I also use Marcel Berthet Lyotard Platform Pedals on them all. That way I can go from one bike to an other using the same set-up.


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## steveindenmark (16 Nov 2014)

I think it looks great. What an excellent job.


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## DCLane (16 Nov 2014)

Looking at it I don't want to paint my Benotto blue to match the forks I have ... I don't want to paint my Benotto blue ... (repeat to save myself work).

It's an excellent job.


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## YahudaMoon (16 Nov 2014)

Oh, its DCLane whos aiming for L'eroica ^^^^^^ up thread

Its good though that your able to ride a bike after your op


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## Mrs M (16 Nov 2014)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> A huuuuuuggge hello to you all. Well the Benotto is all but needing a few tweaks to finish it albeit I have not been out on it yet.
> Spinning the rear wheel and operating the friction shifters with the bike suspended has flagged up a few issues that were partly expected but will be/are being addressed.
> I have realised that a 26 tooth rear sprocket is very definitely the largest that will work with the short cage Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport rear dérailleur.
> It is also looking like a 26 tooth inner of 3 rings is the smallest that will function without chain slap. I just might stick with the current 24T until my new 7spd 13-25 screw-on arrives.
> ...



Lovely job, well done


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> I think it looks great. What an excellent job.



Hi Steve. Thank you. It is the result of a few years of searching for a Benotto after I saw the one that Malcolm Summers has on the Classic Lightweights site albeit his is a Benotto 3000. Being a short-arse 4'10" small Benotto frames are a bit of a rarity and especially one that was not built in Mexico.


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## DCLane (16 Nov 2014)

YahudaMoon said:


> Oh, its DCLane whos aiming for L'eroica ^^^^^^ up thread


 
Mine's OK for the UK version - they only want pre '87 and downtube shifters. 

Getting onto the Italian one will be harder as mine's far from original. I might as well use my tatty but original '86 Raleigh Team for that and bring down the tone 

@TheCyclingRooster - my decals are sorted except for the Paris-Roubaix one. You didn't order two by mistake did you?


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## Easytigers (16 Nov 2014)

Wow! The bike looks superb now that it's finished. Amazing job.


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

YahudaMoon said:


> Oh, its DCLane whos aiming for L'eroica ^^^^^^ up thread
> 
> Its good though that your able to ride a bike after your op



Hi YahadaMoon. At first I tried with the 170mm cranks but my rather short stature/short inside leg measurement (23") made it rather painful just before the top of the pedal stroke.
I then looked at it from a mathematical perspective and got to work on the drawing board and scaled it all out and very quickly realised that a reduction of 30mm crank length would solve the issue.
The reduction by 30mm is equivalent to a 2T increase in chain-ring size but with the help of www.jbarrm.com I have been able to optimise my gearing.


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## TheCyclingRooster (16 Nov 2014)

DCLane said:


> Mine's OK for the UK version - they only want pre '87 and downtube shifters.
> 
> Getting onto the Italian one will be harder as mine's far from original. I might as well use my tatty but original '86 Raleigh Team for that and bring down the tone
> 
> @TheCyclingRooster - my decals are sorted except for the Paris-Roubaix one. You didn't order two by mistake did you?



Hi DCL. The Paris-Roubaix decal is not generally available and seemingly would cost an arm & a leg to have copied.
I looked at all of the sites that advertise them and none of them show the decal.
I particularly like the way Gerry at C&G Finishes has used the small badge like decal as a head badge instead of the word Benotto reading from top to bottom - as was on the frame when I first got it.


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## TheCyclingRooster (20 Nov 2014)

Hi again to you all that are following this thread.
Well - The Benotto has been out on a 6mile fine tuning run and whilst it is a totally different experience to my other previous modern dropped bar bikes and especially my current little Italian - the Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Alu Carbon (shortly to be on Flat-bars with Campagnolo Veloce Shifters (courtesy of Chain Reaction Cycles) the bike rides light and frisky BUT the triple 52:38:24 needs changing to a 52:40:28 . The 7spd 13:15:17:19:21:23:25 screw-on is managed well by the Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport rear dérailleur,there was a 6spd screw-on fitted when I first got the rather sadly neglected Little Italian.
My initial observations were : - 1) Aha - so that was what campy friction shifters were about - some 47yrs ago and that is probably why I changed to bar-end changers.
2) Was I really that wobbly before going onto 9spd Xenon indexed lever shifting with my first Bianchi Gold Race 600 ?
3) Will I resist the temptation to find some decent 7spd + a triple Campagnolo kit?

Having survived the 6mile out & back through the lanes of Scarisbrick with no issues other than lower the saddle a tad and swivel the bars back a touch - I am now eager to get the Steve Goff frame back from C&G Finishes,Liverpool and built it up and into an up-to-date 10spd + triple on Campagnolo.
Steel frames really are in a class of their own.


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## TheCyclingRooster (22 Nov 2014)

Hi to you all again. Well what a disappointment after realising that there was something amiss with the bars and stem that I had sourced and fitted to the Benotto. 
I got the stem ( Cinelli pattern) off of a chap on E'bay and the bars thrown in - grooved but did not use the grooves.
After totally stripping the bar-tape etc. - it turned out that the stem was twisted slightly in an clockwise (from the bike riding position) very disconcerting.
I have since carried out a refit with a pair of 42cm Deda Speciale 26 ( courtesy of High on Bikes) and an unbranded 115mm Silver Aluminium stem on a Quill converter.
The now finished job is really quite appealing and actually does not look out of place at-all.


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