# How far into the dropouts?



## Boris Bajic (10 Jan 2013)

I've recently started to run an 18-tooth freewheel on the flip-flop side of my 20-tooth fixed.

For various reasons(all bad) I shortened the chain when putting it onto the 18-tooth side and now that it's fixed again, the rear axle is only just going back far enough into the jaws of the (forward-facing) dropouts for me to get a decent pinch on the wheelnuts.

I've pootled about on it and it seems OK.

I'm looking for assurances here (and will of course sue if I am misled) that I'll be able to descend at 30+mph with the axle very near the open end of the dropouts without risking the sudden and unexpected loss of my wheel - and my dignity and perhaps some skin.

With dropouts, is it a matter of "If it's staying in place, it's far enough in"?

Or... as with many other components (quill stems etc) is there a sort of invisible 'foolishness marker' beyond which it would not be wise to go?

I can't get the wheel any further back (the chain plays a nice High G as it is). It all looks OK, but I've never put the wheel so far forward and so far along the dropouts.

Any general wisdoms available?


----------



## Rob3rt (10 Jan 2013)

I would say that if the whole track nut is in contact with the dropout you "should" be fine. BUT, personally speaking I would want a little bit of safety margin on it and would like at least 5mm extra, probably a bit more to alleviate any nerves, a cm or more would be good.


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (10 Jan 2013)

Got any nut tugs?


----------



## Theseus (10 Jan 2013)

I had a similar problem when I was running a 18/20 fixed/fixed hub but as I has rear facing track ends I found that the chain completely bound up if I tried to go from 18 to 20 without adding a link or was only half in if I went from 20 to 18 without removing a link. Not only that the brake blocks (yes I use rear brakes on a fixed) needed to be adjusted.

The answer: have 2 chains for the bike, leaving one hanging up in the shed when not in use. After all, it was not as if I changed the gearing while on the road, it was always done in anticipation of the planned ride the night before.


----------



## Pennine-Paul (10 Jan 2013)

Get yourself a halfink ...................Problem cured


----------



## hoski (10 Jan 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> Got any nut tugs?


 
Is it just me, or is the combination of 'tug' and 'nuts' highly amusing?

When I use my 16T sprocket rather than the 14T, my axle is quite near the entry to the dropouts. It sounds like yours is a little further, but if the majority of the nut is in contact with the frame I doubt there would be any problems.

Is it a new chain? If so, it will obviously stretch a little as well


----------



## Boris Bajic (10 Jan 2013)

hoski said:


> Is it just me, or is the combination of 'tug' and 'nuts' highly amusing?
> 
> When I use my 16T sprocket rather than the 14T, my axle is quite near the entry to the dropouts. It sounds like yours is a little further, but if the majority of the nut is in contact with the frame I doubt there would be any problems.
> 
> *Is it a new chain?* If so, it will obviously stretch a little as well


 
Not a new chain... Quite the reverse. It's near the 'change' limit on my funny measurer that looks like a tuning fork gone wrong.

I am massively tight, so I wait until the gauge say I have to change...

In fact, I wait for it to write to me by recorded delivery insisting that I replace the bloody thing or face a summons.


----------



## Old Plodder (11 Jan 2013)

You should just be able to see the end of the dropout ahead of the nut for safety, also, make sure you are using a serrated washer.


----------



## Boris Bajic (11 Jan 2013)

fatmac said:


> You should just be able to see the end of the dropout ahead of the nut for safety, also, make sure you are using a serrated washer.


 
Oops!

Dropout extends beyond axle, but not entirely beyond nut...

Serrated washer check! (Integral with the nut, but it is serrated).

Took it out for a 30-mile freezathon today (sunny and dry, but like the Arctic) and it stood up OK.

I stopped every 8 or so miles to check the rear wheel (for safety, not exhaustion) and it was still there every time.

I do like that bicycle, but I think I ought to swallow hard and cough up for a chain.

I was descending at 30+mph and that's not when you really want to be thinking about how secure your rear wheel is.

Winter foodfest has caught up with me. I pushed like mad and didn't get cadence over 145 even on a mad hill. Usually I'm easily in the high 160s.


----------



## montage (15 Jan 2013)

Any reason you can't just buy a few extra links?


----------



## HovR (15 Jan 2013)

I ran a chain single speed like this for a while. The end of the nut was just about hanging off the edge of the dropout, however even if I was able to move it back this section of the nut would have been over the cutout for the dropout rather than adding any extra security. 

The first time I went out on it I'd only tightened the rear wheel up by hand and it slipped. Commence epic long skid as the wheel hits the chain stay, and a short walk to the nearest person I knew with a spanner to tighten it back up. 

After that I tightened it back up with a torque wrench to ensure I was reaching 40nm, and I had no issues after that. I'd suggest that as long as you're making sure you're tightening up the wheel nuts enough it should be fine.


----------



## biggs682 (16 Jan 2013)

montage said:


> Any reason you can't just buy a few extra links?


 got to best option surely


----------



## Boris Bajic (16 Jan 2013)

montage said:


> Any reason you can't just buy a few extra links?


 
I boshed a couple of links out of it to allow the smaller sprocket on the freewheel side, then went back to the (larger) fixed sprocket.

I am really treading water until I replace the chain.

Yes, a couple of links would be the obvious solution.

Sadly, I last did the obvious or clever thing in about 1987.

I've done 150-ish miles on it since this thread started and am still alive, so I've passed it for compliance with the relevant regulations.

Thanks for the replies.


----------

