# Remind me, what was wrong with friction lever gears.



## GuyBoden (28 Apr 2016)

Yesterday, I spent the day on a road bike with friction lever gears, and they worked perfectly. These are the gears I used for years and years in the 1980's with few problems, I enjoy the new(ish) style gear lever on the brakes, but please remind me, what was the problem with friction lever gears.


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## Ajax Bay (28 Apr 2016)

Had to take your hand off the bars; right handers would therefore not have fingers on the (in UK) front brake lever; could put finger on tyre or worse, in the wheel; not as many gears so ratios further apart (except in a close ratio block).

Back in the 70s I bought my first racing (ie with drops) bike and it was special (ie not like other people's): it had bar end (friction) shifters. You could just about change with your little finger and still be in reach of the brake levers from the drops. Its Brooks is on my audax bike now, and very comfortable too.

I have not listed the plusses (since you asked for the problems), which were/are several, which I enjoy when out on my old bike in the dry. Perhaps you could list the advantages.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Apr 2016)

Simply that you had to take your hands of the bars/brakes to change gear which could be a slight loss of control. Also when racing it was a very obvious sign that you might be about to change pace. Other than that ... nothing.
DT/friction shifters never went away. bar end shifters are a common solution for Touring/Audax types due to their simplicity, ease of repair and set-up. On my custom Rourke I had made last year I specified DT shifters for cost, simplicity, low weight, adaptability and ease of use (can also shift a the whole block in one hit).
Love 'em.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

Nothing. Nothing at all.

I use friction shifters on an 8 speed cassette no problem, and in many ways prefer them to brifters.

It's possible they may be a bit fiddly on 10 speed blocks (sorry ... cassettes)


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> Perhaps you could list the advantages.


Nicer feel (completely subjective)
Simplicity of maintenance/repair (less to go wrong, no need for hair-tearing indexing setup)
Obvious and easy way to "trim" the front mech, and easier (IMO) to catch the chain and replace it without stopping if it comes off.
Able to go directly to the gear you want without clicking through intermediates (good when suddenly slowing to a stop and needing to get into low gear for restart).
Less ugly brake levers (completely subjective)
Lighter by a gnat's whisker

It takes me about 2 miles to reprogram my hands and arms when swapping between bikes with different kinds of shifters.


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## Ajax Bay (28 Apr 2016)

Think you have left out the attractive issue of 'control': with friction the rider has more control (examples above) and can enthuse in his/her skill and 'feel' as in 'yes, that's just the place for x sprocket, now a little overshift and then back to the 'right' place'. And if you're not sure where you are in the block/cassette, only need to glance down to vertical, with peripheral vision still there in the direction of travel


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## PhilDawson8270 (28 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Able to go directly to the gear you want without clicking through intermediates (good when suddenly slowing to a stop and needing to get into low gear for restart).



Most shimano shifters can go through 3 gears in one motion.


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## Crackle (28 Apr 2016)

You had to get your gear before the hill, as the chances of getting it whilst on the hill diminished rapidly, especially if it was steep and you were needing to honk up. Indexed is brilliant. A momentary ease of pressure, no hands off bars and it'll still change mid-gasp. Very forgiving.


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## boydj (28 Apr 2016)

Indexed d/t or bar-end shifters had no real advantage over friction shifters and were probably more bother than they were worth. Combining the shifting with the brake levers brought a new level of control and ease of use and this could not be done with friction shifting.


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## palinurus (28 Apr 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> please remind me, what was the problem with friction lever gears.



I don't think there's anything wrong with them. My previous commute bike had a downtube lever (1x8) in friction mode. I reckon it was lower maintenance than fixed, probably cheaper too.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

boydj said:


> Indexed d/t or bar-end shifters had no real advantage over friction shifters and were probably more bother than they were worth. Combining the shifting with the brake levers brought a new level of control and ease of use and this could not be done with friction shifting.


I've never used indexed dt shifters, and you're right, they seem a bit pointless to me.

Re brifters: I'd agree with the "ease of use bit" I'd imagine there's a significantly bigger learning curve on them than brifters, but not the "level of control". Witness the bodges that they had to make to the left hand shifter to get "trimming" to work.


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## winjim (28 Apr 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Most shimano shifters can go through 3 gears in one motion.


Is that all? 3-up 5-down on Campagnolo Ultrashift, and on my older 9sp Mirage I can dump it all the way down the cassette in one go if I want.


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## shouldbeinbed (28 Apr 2016)

I liked friction shifters. The no name free BSO I've just got for sons GF to keep at ours effectively has a friction twistgrip for the front triple, it works.

I know gripshift isn't popular with all but it is a hands always on the bars compromise that could have friction shifting on current bikes.


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## Yellow Saddle (28 Apr 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> Yesterday, I spent the day on a road bike with friction lever gears, and they worked perfectly. These are the gears I used for years and years in the 1980's with few problems, I enjoy the new(ish) style gear lever on the brakes, but please remind me, what was the problem with friction lever gears.


Not everything made yesterday is better. I'll assume you bemoan the move to index downtube shifters rather than that to brifters. Friction shifters went out the back door because indexing has two distinct advantages.
1) In traffic or other noisy places like tight pelotons you can't listen and hear if your chain is perfectly in gear. When things are quiet you make the small adjustments by ear. When noisy, you have to look down and that is dangerous, especially in the type of environment where you have to look down. I'll rather be in a peloton behind an indexed rider than a retro-grouch friction rider. Also, a slightly misaligned gear is dangerous when you have to get up and pedal hard. An indexed shifter does all that for you without fuss. Lots of people tell you they have, like a trombone player or violinist, developed perfect feel for where the lever should be and thus never make mistakes even in noisy environments. I've also heard that saying bless-you after a sneeze keeps the lions away.
2) The small mechanical improvement of indexing comes at no extra cost, no weight, isn't contrived, cant be seen, isn't bulky, is simple to maintain, rarely fails and makes a satisfying click like the safety catch going off on a 9mm parabellum.
Brifters are a natural progression from that and electronic switches on levers even better. Let's move on. Valve radios are quaint but I can't wait for 20 minutes for the thing to warm up. Inside toilets are also more comfortable than a drafty wooden longdrop in the garden.


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## PhilDawson8270 (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> Is that all? 3-up 5-down on Campagnolo Ultrashift, and on my older 9sp Mirage I can dump it all the way down the cassette in one go if I want.



No idea what Ultegra can do, my money only goes as far as 105


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## Fab Foodie (28 Apr 2016)

boydj said:


> Indexed d/t or bar-end shifters had no real advantage over friction shifters and were probably more bother than they were worth. Combining the shifting with the brake levers brought a new level of control and ease of use and this could not be done with friction shifting.


My RH shifter DT Dura Ace is indexed and LH shifter is friction. The indexing works a treat.


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## screenman (28 Apr 2016)

We never used to think there was anything wrong with black and white TV.


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## Yellow Saddle (28 Apr 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> No idea what Ultegra can do, my money only goes as far as 105


You will have to go all the to Di2 before Shimano gives you a continuous dump down the cassette.


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## Yellow Saddle (28 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> We never used to think there was anything wrong with black and white TV.


Or kid chamois or highwheeler bikes or tubulars or cotter pins.


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## PhilDawson8270 (28 Apr 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> You will have to go all the to Di2 before Shimano gives you a continuous dump down the cassette.


And that's why I don't know about it


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## mustang1 (28 Apr 2016)

They didn't index.


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## Globalti (28 Apr 2016)

I'd go on from what Yellow Saddle posts above and suggest that SIS is one of the improvements in bike technology that brought so many people into road cycling along with compact chainrings and wide-ratio cassettes, compact and comfortable carbon frames, padded handlebars, comfortable (from day one) saddles, decent brakes and bigger tyres. 

I mountain biked from 1988 to 2009 and it wasn't until I found a 2006 carbon Roubaix abandoned in the river that I realised how comfortable and easy road bikes had become.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

mustang1 said:


> They didn't index.


Is that one of the advantages or disadvantages?


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

Globalti said:


> I'd go on from what Yellow Saddle posts above and suggest that SIS is one of the improvements in bike technology that brought so many people into road cycling along with compact chainrings and wide-ratio cassettes, compact and comfortable carbon frames, padded handlebars, comfortable (from day one) saddles, decent brakes and bigger tyres.
> 
> I mountain biked from 1988 to 2009 and it wasn't until I found a 2006 carbon Roubaix abandoned in the river that I realised how comfortable and easy road bikes had become.


I agree. Especially about the wide ratio cassettes. 

Some years ago a pal of mine got me back into cycling, causing me to dust down my steel 10 speed. He was enthusing at length about how much bikes had changed since the Dawes and Pugs of our youth. His enthusiasm for modern bikes was what kick started my return to cycling, even if I still haven't fully bought in to all things modern.


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## tyred (28 Apr 2016)

Problem with DT shifters - the beer belly gets in the way when changing gear


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## Fab Foodie (28 Apr 2016)

mustang1 said:


> They didn't index.


In the old days maybe not, but modern ones and bar ends do.


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## Aravis (28 Apr 2016)

I think it's fair to say that changing gear using downtube levers involves a more complex sequence of actions than brifters and therefore requires more conscious thought. Nowadays I find I not infrequently use the wrong hand, particularly when I'm needing to be aware of potential hazards, and next time I go to shift find myself in a very odd place. I don't remember that happening in the old days, so perhaps the ability to change gear easily at all times can be a mixed blessing.

Earlier this year I did a 100 miler on a 36 year old Galaxy with original Weinmann centre pulls, 5-speed 14-28 block and friction levers. I found far less to dislike with the shifting than the braking, and had no trouble making the transition. But I'll take the comfort and maintenance of control that brifters give without hesitation.

A bit of the programming from the old days will always remain I think. I still reach for the downtube a few times on every ride.


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## jay clock (28 Apr 2016)

The "less to go wrong" argument is not borne out by my experience. 12+ years of road biking/touring/long distance triathlons (60,000km+) and zero problems. It is a bit like someone using a starting handle to avoid the risk of a starter motor going wrong on the car

And there is no way I want to be removing a hand to change gear as I ascend a steep hill, or even less as I bomb down!


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## User33236 (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> Is that all? 3-up 5-down on Campagnolo Ultrashift, and on my older 9sp Mirage I can dump it all the way down the cassette in one go if I want.


Di2, if programmed to do so, can go all the way up or down the cassette


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## TheJDog (28 Apr 2016)

Running out of puff up a hill and having to sit down, reach down, change, fiddle, then start again was massively painful compared to what I do now - let off the pressure a bit and click it down a gear or two (while standing). I'd never go back.


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## winjim (28 Apr 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> You will have to go all the to Di2 before Shimano gives you a continuous dump down the cassette.





User33236 said:


> Di2, if programmed to do so, can go all the way up or down the cassette



Remind me, what was wrong with mechanical shifting?


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## Ajax Bay (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> what was wrong with mechanical shifting?


More than 25 years old.


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## Yellow Saddle (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> Remind me, what was wrong with mechanical shifting?


Steady now. Don't ever think you've seen the pinnacle of anything. Mechanical shifting has its issues. The number of shifting problems related to cable tension and barrel adjusters on this forum alone testifies to that. We all know that cables become gritty and mess with gears. We all know that electric shifting will become cheaper and cheaper.
Although I don't have electric shifting yet, I can foresee that I'll have it one day. Just before I left the industry I installed a couple of Shimano and Campag electric systems for a few of my early-adopter customers and I was impressed. The lever feel was fantastic and the systems proved very robust. Admittedly anything with a battery spells trouble and I hate the fact that the house is full of chargers for this and that and whathaveyou, it isn't really an issue. The day will come when all battery systems use the same charger and every plugpoint in the house will have a built-in charge port and we'll have one cable for all devices.
The day will come when the bike will have just one battery for lights, gears and navigation devices and charging it will be no more bothersome than charging your phone.
I think an electric system is better for the average consumer than a cable system.


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## si_c (28 Apr 2016)

I use DT shifters daily on my bike with a 10 speed 12-30 block at the back, and it's fine. I do have to make sure that I get into gear when approaching hills, as it can be difficult to change gear sometimes, and on occasion I do find that I've not quite got the gear change right, so it shifts when I stand up and push hard, but overall, it's a system I'm happy with as it's totally maintenance free, and I don't have to worry about setting up the indexing properly ever.

On the other hand sometimes dropping a gear on a hill can be problematic, especially if (as I am wont to do) I am standing. So often I end up treating the bike as semi-fixed gear. I will probably end up changing the gears over to being STIs, as I think ten speed is pretty much the limit of the range I can get out of the shifters, and I have the remaining 11 speed bits from my 105 groupset to put on at some point.


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## GuyBoden (28 Apr 2016)

Maybe, nostalgia helps, but friction gear levers seemed to do the job well.


TheJDog said:


> Running out of puff up a hill and having to sit down, reach down, change, fiddle, then start again was massively painful compared to what I do now - let off the pressure a bit and click it down a gear or two (while standing). I'd never go back.



Yes, changing gear up hill seems to be the big disadvantage with friction gear levers, luckily Cheshire is mostly flat, so it's ideal for casual road bike riding with friction gear levers.


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## growingvegetables (28 Apr 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> The day will come when the bike will have just one battery for lights, gears and navigation devices and charging it will be no more bothersome than charging your phone.
> I think an electric system is better for the average consumer than a cable system.


That's the way cars have gone!











And sorry - I hate it.  Give me adjusting contact points any time, rather than track an electrical/electronic fault. But then my favourite drives of all were Series 2 & 3 Landrovers. So probably best to count my opinion out.

I like my current friction-lever riding, and will replace the brifters on one of my bikes with friction bar-end shifters. Put it down to sheer frustration at the bike being off the road because a teeny-tiny bit of finely machined plastic (?) broke, and gummed up the RH brifter. Terminally.


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## Alembicbassman (28 Apr 2016)

It's the only Dura Ace stuff I can afford


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## winjim (28 Apr 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Steady now. Don't ever think you've seen the pinnacle of anything. Mechanical shifting has its issues. The number of shifting problems related to cable tension and barrel adjusters on this forum alone testifies to that. We all know that cables become gritty and mess with gears. We all know that electric shifting will become cheaper and cheaper.
> Although I don't have electric shifting yet, I can foresee that I'll have it one day. Just before I left the industry I installed a couple of Shimano and Campag electric systems for a few of my early-adopter customers and I was impressed. The lever feel was fantastic and the systems proved very robust. Admittedly anything with a battery spells trouble and I hate the fact that the house is full of chargers for this and that and whathaveyou, it isn't really an issue. The day will come when all battery systems use the same charger and every plugpoint in the house will have a built-in charge port and we'll have one cable for all devices.
> The day will come when the bike will have just one battery for lights, gears and navigation devices and charging it will be no more bothersome than charging your phone.
> I think an electric system is better for the average consumer than a cable system.


My comment was an ironic nod to the thread title, really. That said, I do quite like the idea of the bicycle as an entirely mechanical entity. There's something quite satisfyingly pure about it. Of course that's just my preference and my attitude; there's nothing "wrong" with electronic shifting and I'm sure we'll see more and more of it as the technology progresses and becomes cheaper until your "average consumer" can afford it just as well as those who fancy themselves racers.

As for charging, has anyone yet developed an electronic gear shift system that runs off a dynamo? That would be good way to go I think.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> My comment was an ironic nod to the thread title, really. That said, I do quite like the idea of the bicycle as an entirely mechanical entity. There's something quite satisfyingly pure about it. Of course that's just my preference and my attitude; there's nothing "wrong" with electronic shifting and I'm sure we'll see more and more of it as the technology progresses and becomes cheaper until your "average consumer" can afford it just as well as those who fancy themselves racers.
> 
> *As for charging, has anyone yet developed an electronic gear shift system that runs off a dynamo? That would be good way to go I think*.



Mavic's foray into electronic shifting in the early nineties used a battery in the shifter only. The rear mech had a capacitator powered by the top jockey wheel which took care of the shifting. The front mech was mechanical. Unfortunately Mavic's R&D budget was probably around what Shimano spend on paper clips so they never got it to work reliably, though Chris Boardman was a fan and used it on some of his bikes.


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2016)

I run 8 speed down tube SIS shifters on my two old bikes. They work and shift super efficiently. I've done a few sportives and heard other folks gears clattering at a hill. More likely down to user set up, but it's not allowed, wasn't in my day.. Get yer gears sorted....


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've never used indexed dt shifters, and you're right, they seem a bit pointless to me.
> .



They work fantastically. Been using SIS downtube shifters since 1986.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> They work fantastically. Been using SIS downtube shifters since 1986.


I'll take your word for it. As I said I've never actually tried them so I don't really have any right to an opinion on them. Not that I normally let that stop me.


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## User33236 (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> As for charging, has anyone yet developed an electronic gear shift system that runs off a dynamo? That would be good way to go I think.


Don't really see the need.

I did 169km (105 miles) a couple of weeks ago and the battery only dropped 10%. At that rate it's 1000 miles or so between charges which isn't that onerous.


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## midlife (28 Apr 2016)

You can drill / slice / cut out etc a downtube shifter ............... try doing that to a "brifter" 






Shaun


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'll take your word for it. As I said I've never actually tried them so I don't really have any right to an opinion on them. Not that I normally let that stop me.



They are good. Been using Shimano 600 and Dura Ace ones since 86. The Dura Ace 7400's are fabulous. Just click and changed.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Apr 2016)

Most people who switched from friction to indexed commented on how much better they were, something I found too. However, no-one can change gear for you so whatever floats your boat, they all work.


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## contadino (28 Apr 2016)

I've never had a road bike with indexed gears so can't compare. However I can change gear swiftly and without looking down, I know which gear I'm in without looking down, and I don't really have issues making changes whilst climbing.

Some changes need trimming if there's rub somewhere. You should be able to feel it rather than hear it.

However when I change front and back at the same time with one hand and land in the sweet spot, that's a lovely feeling. Rare though it is.

I'm sure I'll end up getting a bike with brifters at some point, but for now I love non-indexed DT shifters.

I imagine brifters give competitive cyclists an edge, but that's not me.


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## Bollo (28 Apr 2016)

I heart my Di2 to the point where my wrists hurt when I use brifters. I am a flower. 

(The sprint shifters are like heated seats in cars. You don't think you're bothered until you have them, but then you'll never do without.)


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## Yellow Saddle (28 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> My comment was an ironic nod to the thread title, really. That said, I do quite like the idea of the bicycle as an entirely mechanical entity. There's something quite satisfyingly pure about it. Of course that's just my preference and my attitude; there's nothing "wrong" with electronic shifting and I'm sure we'll see more and more of it as the technology progresses and becomes cheaper until your "average consumer" can afford it just as well as those who fancy themselves racers.
> .



I know, I know....I'm just trying to be "with it" for once in my life. I've always wanted to be a "early adopter" and now, at least on paper, I can be one. Now where did I put that battery charger adapter plug thingy?


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## Bollo (28 Apr 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I know, I know....I'm just trying to be "with it" for once in my life. I've always wanted to be a "early adopter" and now, at least on paper, I can be one. Now where did I put that battery charger adapter plug thingy?


"Shift anxiety" is all part of the experience.


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 Apr 2016)

I've never raced and somehow think I never will but I've got a newish tourer with bar-end shifters and, though it arrived perfectly indexed, when the cables stretched a little, I thought I'd try using them as friction shifters for a couple of miles. About 3,700 miles later, I still haven't got round to retuning it. A clean shift is my good shift, a clunky slippy chain is my bad shift, and, no, changing gear standing is difficult enough indexed or not. If the flappy paddles on my SRAM bike gave me the option to use it like a friction shifter on the lighter bike, I'd choose it. 

Mind, I grew up on bikes before indexing was even a glint in its chainring's eye.


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## tyred (29 Apr 2016)

Throw the lot in the bin and ride fixed!


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## jay clock (29 Apr 2016)

si_c said:


> it's a system I'm happy with as it's totally maintenance free, .


so are all my indexed systems over 60k km. Set them up and leave them.


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## Brightski (29 Apr 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> Yesterday, I spent the day on a road bike with friction lever gears, and they worked perfectly. These are the gears I used for years and years in the 1980's with few problems, I enjoy the new(ish) style gear lever on the brakes, but please remind me, what was the problem with friction lever gears.


I still use friction on my tri bar shifters on my TT bike, I can stick any wheels in it with out having to fart around with gears.. 
I use shimano on TT bike but can use campag as well


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## Toshiba Boy (29 Apr 2016)

Have "several" bikes, but the road bike I commute to work on, come rain or shine, is my "old faithful" 1980's Peugeot with friction down tube levers. Being an old git, I love them, never had any issues, but at same time have no problems with all my other bikes which are somewhat more "up to date".


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## mustang1 (29 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Is that one of the advantages or disadvantages?


Depends who's reading.


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## mustang1 (29 Apr 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> In the old days maybe not, but modern ones and bar ends do.


I didn't know that. Eg the bar end ones. I thought they could either be friction type or indeed type but not both?


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## Fab Foodie (29 Apr 2016)

mustang1 said:


> I didn't know that. Eg the bar end ones. I thought they could either be friction type or indeed type but not both?


I understand that the LH is always friction and the RH can be set as either for both the DA 9 and 10 speed.
My RH one is indexed and allied to a DA mech is peachy smooth.

I like the simplicity.


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## Gravity Aided (29 Apr 2016)

I like indexed better,especially on longer rides. But a convenience more than a necessity.


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Apr 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> I understand that the LH is always friction and the RH can be set as either for both the DA 9 and 10 speed.
> My RH one is indexed and allied to a DA mech is peachy smooth.
> 
> I like the simplicity.


That's the Shimano (Deore XT) arrangement that I have on a bike I've never bothered to reindex after cables stretched a wee bit.


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## raleighnut (30 Apr 2016)

mustang1 said:


> I didn't know that. Eg the bar end ones. I thought they could either be friction type or indeed type but not both?


With my Bar ends the Shimano (Dura-ace 8 or 9spd) indexing can be switched on or off at the lever but the Campagnolo (Super Record 10spd) are indexed only.
I still find myself waving a hand around the downtube looking for the lever every once in a while though (3 of my other bikes have DT shifters)


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## alecstilleyedye (30 Apr 2016)

unscrupulous cyclists in the peloton can't ruin your sprint by flipping your downtube levers into lower gears (or a mash); apparently it used to go on a lot in the pro peloton…


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## Dogtrousers (30 Apr 2016)

alecstilleyedye said:


> unscrupulous cyclists in the peloton can't ruin your sprint by flipping your downtube levers into lower gears (or a mash); apparently it used to go on a lot in the pro peloton…


Tee hee

I wonder if we'll get a high tech version with riders hacking into each other's wireless changers. 

Or indeed into each other's power meters.


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## Alembicbassman (30 Apr 2016)

I got rid of my bar-end shifters after the right shifter on my touring bike tried to remove my right knee-cap when my front wheel slipped on a small rock on a trail in Clumber Park.


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## screenman (30 Apr 2016)

alecstilleyedye said:


> unscrupulous cyclists in the peloton can't ruin your sprint by flipping your downtube levers into lower gears (or a mash); apparently it used to go on a lot in the pro peloton…



Not only the pro peloton


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## Smokin Joe (1 May 2016)

alecstilleyedye said:


> unscrupulous cyclists in the peloton can't ruin your sprint by flipping your downtube levers into lower gears (or a mash); apparently it used to go on a lot in the pro peloton…


Or the jokers who used to reach out and change you to the big ring on a steep climb when you were using bar ends.


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## briantrumpet (1 May 2016)

Having been brought up on DT shifters (first proper bike was a Falcon in the 70s, and I ran on old 2nd-hand bikes after that), my first nice bike with integrated shifters and indexed gears (CAAD9 in 2010) was a revelation. I'd only go back for nostalgic reasons - and given I'm not a great one for nostalgia, I'll stick with the current set-up. If anything reinvigorated my pleasure in riding road bikes, it was the ease of changing gears quickly and accurately without taking my hands off the bars.


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## midlife (1 May 2016)

Alembicbassman said:


> I got rid of my bar-end shifters after the right shifter on my touring bike tried to remove my right knee-cap when my front wheel slipped on a small rock on a trail in Clumber Park.



If you think bar end shifters are dangerous they pale into insignificance against these.............







Shaun


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## subaqua (1 May 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Not everything made yesterday is better. I'll assume you bemoan the move to index downtube shifters rather than that to brifters. Friction shifters went out the back door because indexing has two distinct advantages.
> 1) In traffic or other noisy places like tight pelotons you can't listen and hear if your chain is perfectly in gear. When things are quiet you make the small adjustments by ear. When noisy, you have to look down and that is dangerous, especially in the type of environment where you have to look down. I'll rather be in a peloton behind an indexed rider than a retro-grouch friction rider. Also, a slightly misaligned gear is dangerous when you have to get up and pedal hard. An indexed shifter does all that for you without fuss. Lots of people tell you they have, like a trombone player or violinist, developed perfect feel for where the lever should be and thus never make mistakes even in noisy environments. I've also heard that saying bless-you after a sneeze keeps the lions away.
> 2) The small mechanical improvement of indexing comes at no extra cost, no weight, isn't contrived, cant be seen, isn't bulky, is simple to maintain, rarely fails and makes a satisfying click like the safety catch going off on a 9mm parabellum.
> Brifters are a natural progression from that and electronic switches on levers even better. Let's move on. Valve radios are quaint but I can't wait for 20 minutes for the thing to warm up. Inside toilets are also more comfortable than a drafty wooden longdrop in the garden.


Valve amps give a much better sound though . Sometimes you need to sacrifice speed for quality


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## clockworksimon (1 May 2016)

I still use Shimano Deore thumb shifters which mount above the bar on my old MTB. I bought and fitted these after the original rapidfire shifters had worn and got less reliable. The top shifters have index or friction option for the rear mech. I use them mostly in friction mode. Whilst originally for 7 speed, they work well on 8 speed. They seem to be lasting forever and no great reason to change. Even in non competitive (?) XC riding having your 'mates' flip your shifter at the start of a hill then sprint off has happened more than once! I also had down tube friction shifters on my old road bike until not very long ago. They were fine although I prefer modern indexed brake/gear levers. The old bikes down tube shifters have since been removed and not replaced as it's now single speed!


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## Alembicbassman (4 May 2016)

midlife said:


> If you think bar end shifters are dangerous they pale into insignificance against these.............
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably not as bad as this one though


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## Smokin Joe (4 May 2016)

Alembicbassman said:


> Probably not as bad as this one though


I'm glad I never owned one of those. I'd feel "Dirty", know what I mean?


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## fossyant (4 May 2016)

Alembicbassman said:


> Probably not as bad as this one though



I did love my chopper, but they were bloody dangerous. That said I managed OK in snow on it on my paper round. No studded tyres like now.


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## fossyant (4 May 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'm glad I never owned one of those. I'd feel "Dirty", know what I mean?



Never had one - OMG !!!!


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## Smokin Joe (4 May 2016)

fossyant said:


> Never had one - OMG !!!!


It's like admitting you owned a tank top or came in your pants at a Bay City Rollers concert.


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## GuyBoden (5 May 2016)

midlife said:


> If you think bar end shifters are dangerous they pale into insignificance against these.............
> 
> 
> 
> ...







I like them............................ I'll have to get some...........................


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