# Your local trails



## VamP (27 Nov 2012)

Anyone been out there lately?


Jeez the mud the mud. 6.7 miles last night in just over 90 minutes. It was pretty epic.

How are your trails holding up?


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## Cubist (27 Nov 2012)

Dreadful. One favourite bit has turned from singletrack to streambed.


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## VamP (27 Nov 2012)

That's luxury that is....










This was on Sunday in North London. I don't have any pics from last night, but it was a lot muddier than that!


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## al-fresco (27 Nov 2012)

I went to Llandegla last week to escape from the worst of the mud in the local farm tracks and moorland. 'degla is holding up pretty well - a fair bit of standing water in places but not much actual mud and plenty of grip. You'll need either a spare pair of trousers or something to protect your car seat on the way home though...


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## lulubel (27 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> Dreadful. One favourite bit has turned from singletrack to streambed.


 
Looks fun, even if it is a bit wet.


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## Cubist (27 Nov 2012)

lulubel said:


> Looks fun, even if it is a bit wet.


 
It did prove that you don't need to worry about grip on wet millstone grit. The Nics held up very well.


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## Crackle (27 Nov 2012)

Local is all Bridleways and even the best of them is so full of standing water and mud, it'd be a wallow. The worst are hardly rideable in dry weather, I'd probably end up up to my knees now. A few dry days needed.


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Nov 2012)

There are no local trails any more, just linear bogs, overuse in the summer has wrecked 'em all.


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## VamP (27 Nov 2012)

Indeed.

Not going out tonight. Both pairs of shoes still wet, and I got cycling apparel drying all over the house.


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## lulubel (27 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> It did prove that you don't need to worry about grip on wet millstone grit. The Nics held up very well.


 
Which version of the Nics do you use? My OH's bike came with some on it, and I don't like the feel of them as much as my MKs, so I suspect she has the cheap version and they need upgrading.


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## Cubist (27 Nov 2012)

I use their Snakeskin Evos, 2.4 on the bouncer, and 2.25 on the Cotic. They work out at about less than 30 E each delivered from Bike-discount.de I run them tubeless on Stans rims at low pressures. You can see how rocky Calderdale trails tend to be.... that one's about average for Norland, and so tubeless lets me run low pressures without snakebite.


lulubel said:


> Which version of the Nics do you use? My OH's bike came with some on it, and I don't like the feel of them as much as my MKs, so I suspect she has the cheap version and they need upgrading.


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## lulubel (27 Nov 2012)

Cubist said:


> I use their Snakeskin Evos, 2.4 on the bouncer, and 2.25 on the Cotic. They work out at about less than 30 E each delivered from Bike-discount.de I run them tubeless on Stans rims at low pressures. You can see how rocky Calderdale trails tend to be.... that one's about average for Norland, and so tubeless lets me run low pressures without snakebite.


 
Thanks. I'll take a look.

She's got the current ones quite a bit firmer than I've got my MKs because my gut tells me they'll snakebite quite easily, and she said she was a bit nervous about braking on her first ride today, after she lost grip a couple of times when she braked. I don't have that problem with my MKs - they can handle quite firm braking even on fairly loose stuff - but I'm not sure yet if it's the tyres/pressures or she still needs to learn to be subtle with the brakes. They don't feel very grippy, though, quite plasticy rather than sticky rubber.


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## Cubist (27 Nov 2012)

I have a feeling OEMs aren't as grippy. They do two different compounds as well in Evo carcase, PaceStar and TrailStar. Trailstar are grippier.
You may also be able to find some Triple Nano compound which have a hard wearing edge middle, but softer shoulders.


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## Motozulu (27 Nov 2012)

Cannock had loads of standing water 3 days ago - but was holding up well due to the recent drainage work that they've carried out.


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## 02GF74 (27 Nov 2012)

nope - it is truly awful out at the moment.
2 weekedns ago when it was not too bad, took a route next to a recently plough field and the muc just stuck to my tyres, ended up looking like balloon tyres .... and ended up scratching my fork and rear triangle!!! GGGRrrrr .... well it is an MTB after all.,


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## VamP (28 Nov 2012)

Briefly considered it today, but went on a road ride instead...


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## 3narf (28 Nov 2012)

I might go out tomorrow, see if I can get out from under this black cloud, even if just for a couple of hours.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Nov 2012)

lulubel said:


> Thanks. I'll take a look.
> 
> She's got the current ones quite a bit firmer than I've got my MKs because my gut tells me they'll snakebite quite easily, and she said she was a bit nervous about braking on her first ride today, after she lost grip a couple of times when she braked. I don't have that problem with my MKs - they can handle quite firm braking even on fairly loose stuff - but I'm not sure yet if it's the tyres/pressures or she still needs to learn to be subtle with the brakes. They don't feel very grippy, though, quite plasticy rather than sticky rubber.


More likely weight placement/distribution than compound/pressure imo.

Subtlety in braking.... how does that work? Either leave 'em be or have 'em on hard.


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## lulubel (28 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> More likely weight placement/distribution than compound/pressure imo.
> 
> Subtlety in braking.... how does that work? Either leave 'em be or have 'em on hard.


 
As in not grabbing them hard enough to lock the wheels. She's ridden nothing but a road bike for the last 4 years, so she's used to gripping the levers with all her strength 

I think it was a bit damp when she went out yesterday morning, which will have made grip worse than usual. She was obviously a bit nervous about using the brakes after the front lost grip, though, and I don't want her taking stuff too fast because she's scared to brake, and then having a higher speed crash that will make her more nervous ... as well as potentially ending up in hospital.

I'm probably being overprotective, but even she admits she's a danger to herself, so I do worry about her!


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Nov 2012)

lulubel said:


> I'm probably being overprotective, but even she admits she's a danger to herself, so I do worry about her!


Such is love I'm afraid.

Locking the front wheel under braking is often a weight thing. But please tell me you've taught her, through the use of gaffer tape if need be, that it is all about fingers....

"One the front brake
two for the back.
Four is a handful
and makes your head crack"


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## Cubist (28 Nov 2012)

lulubel said:


> As in not grabbing them hard enough to lock the wheels. She's ridden nothing but a road bike for the last 4 years, so she's used to gripping the levers with all her strength
> 
> I think it was a bit damp when she went out yesterday morning, which will have made grip worse than usual. She was obviously a bit nervous about using the brakes after the front lost grip, though, and I don't want her taking stuff too fast because she's scared to brake, and then having a higher speed crash that will make her more nervous ... as well as potentially ending up in hospital.
> 
> *I'm probably being overprotective, but even she admits she's a danger to herself, so I do worry about her!*


 
This tickles me, you make yourself sound like a mother hen!!!!


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## lulubel (28 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Such is love I'm afraid.
> 
> Locking the front wheel under braking is often a weight thing. But please tell me you've taught her, through the use of gaffer tape if need be, that it is all about fingers....
> 
> ...


 
I haven't come across that rhyme before, but I will show it to her. The first thing she did when I told her to feel how good the brakes are was wrapped all her fingers round the levers, so I explained to her the different braking options and she was going to experiment. The hardest thing is trying to avoid pressuring her to ride exactly the way I do, because I know she's got to learn to ride by feel.



Cubist said:


> This tickles me, you make yourself sound like a mother hen!!!!


 
I know.

I am a few years older than her, and she hadn't experienced much of life when we first met, so I guess that's where it's come from.


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## Cubist (28 Nov 2012)

Sweet!


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## Motozulu (30 Nov 2012)

I'm liking the rhyme!

Lu sometimes you just have to let em get on with it  good advice is all you can give. I KNOW I'm a danger to myself and I've got the scars to prove it, but you do learn fast when pain is involved - she'll be fine and it sounds like she's getting much better advice than I did when I started out.

Back to the OP slightly am just off up the forest in a couple of hours for the first time in 5 days - we've had a small dry spell and a couple of hard frosts so I'm hoping the water levels have dropped a bit.


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## VamP (30 Nov 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Back to the OP slightly am just off up the forest in a couple of hours for the first time in 5 days - we've had a small dry spell and a couple of hard frosts so I'm hoping the water levels have dropped a bit.


 

Yeah, I'm going to venture out today as well. Hopefully, things have improved...


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## jonathanw (30 Nov 2012)

http://app.strava.com/activities/30008995

Snow, ice, mud and a full moon - absolutely amazing

The jammed/chain-suck incident at 1500 ft at the top of the "spongy" segment was not so much fun esp. as we had to loosen the front derailleur to free the chain - too much crud on the drivetrain !!!


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## VamP (30 Nov 2012)

Looks immense. Not jealous or anything...


Much better out there today. Maybe in part to a few dry days, some frost firming things up, and mainly riding in daylight giving a lot more advance warning of flooded areas thus having the option of avoiding them. Lovely out today in fact, with sunshine, frost, deer.


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## Motozulu (30 Nov 2012)

Yep - Cannock much better than I thought - still some partly frozen puddles about but surprisingly dry and in good nick - enjoyed it. The Dog tomorrow morning methinks before all the weekenders get to it 

PS - brilliant piccie!


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## lulubel (30 Nov 2012)

That pic's fantastic. I don't think I'd ever have the nerve to go off-road in the dark. I have enough trouble seeing what I'm about to ride over when there's dappled sunlight on the trail!


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## jonathanw (30 Nov 2012)

we put the lights on shortly after the descent off that hill : 750-1000 lumens sure makes the off road ride-able and it adds a different perspective to the riding. The snow was only a thin covering but it was cold, and the almost full moon came out shortly after the piccy, which was taken at 4.30pm or so (It does get dark early up here). About an hour after that we were in a blizzard on top of the Fyrish Hill climb, but it was amazing looking down on the Cromarty Firth and the Moray Firth, even further in the distance, with the lights of Inverness giving perspective.


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## ian westmacott (2 Dec 2012)

You guys should get up the malvern hills, any trails above 300feet are perfect .I did 14.6 miles yesterday, it was bloody glorious. :-)


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## lukesdad (12 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Yep - Cannock much better than I thought - still some partly frozen puddles about but surprisingly dry and in good nick - enjoyed it. The Dog tomorrow morning methinks before all the weekenders get to it
> 
> PS - brilliant piccie!


 last few weeks i spent up in brum and stafford did quite a bit of riding at cannock, it was surprisingly dry. it reminded me a lot of the hampshire commons and downs.


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## Motozulu (12 Dec 2012)

It's well drained and well maintained by volunteers (bless 'em!). Last weekend was the muddiest I've known it and it was still passable. The freeze has dried up the last of it now as well.


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## Rallybiker (15 Dec 2012)

Did the Beast at Coed y Brenin last weekend in the best winter conditions ever. Really grippy and the whole of the Adams family in one hit was a superb blast!


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## Motozulu (18 Dec 2012)

Cannock was horrible yesterday - so much so I've given it a rest through guilt today - part of the Dog was closed with signs saying 'Do not ride this trail as you will seriously damage it's health'. So I stuck to the diversion but still felt guilty. Had a dry day today so will try again tomorrow.


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## Globalti (22 Dec 2012)

This year's weather has discouraged more people than ever from mountain biking; sales of mountain bikes are flatlining while sales of road bikes are increasing. Even on die-hard MTB websites like Singletrack, people are discussing road bikes. I certainly haven't been on the mountain bike for many many months.


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## al-fresco (22 Dec 2012)

Globalti said:


> This year's weather has discouraged more people than ever from mountain biking; sales of mountain bikes are flatlining while sales of road bikes are increasing. Even on die-hard MTB websites like Singletrack, people are discussing road bikes. I certainly haven't been on the mountain bike for many many months.


 
Hmmm, it's having the opposite effect on me - since the end of September the road bikes have mainly been stuck in the garage while the MTB has been getting lots of rides. That's probably down to where I live - the roads around here are so full of mud that the road bikes get just as crappy as the MTB. And since none of them have mudguards I get just as covered in mud on a road ride as I do off-road. What has changed is that I've tended to stick to routes that I know rather than looking for new ones - this weather is definitely discouraging me from exploration. On the other hand I can't remember the last time I was still riding in my baggies in December.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Dec 2012)

Around here It would utterly irresponsible to go riding on the local trails with the current conditions under tread.


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## Alan57 (22 Dec 2012)

al-fresco said:


> Hmmm, it's having the opposite effect on me - since the end of September the road bikes have mainly been stuck in the garage while the MTB has been getting lots of rides. That's probably down to where I live - the roads around here are so full of mud that the road bikes get just as crappy as the MTB. And since none of them have mudguards I get just as covered in mud on a road ride as I do off-road. What has changed is that I've tended to stick to routes that I know rather than looking for new ones - this weather is definitely discouraging me from exploration. On the other hand I can't remember the last time I was still riding in my baggies in December.


 
+1 on that , my road bike is hibernating at present and the MTB is used every day rain or shine. Same reasons ,the roads where I live are full of crud and crap which washes down into the valley from the moors.


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## Motozulu (22 Dec 2012)

Don't have a road bike and never will - don't take offence but I find road biking just boring, would rather do an hour on a treadmill - not to mention dangerous with some of the idiot drivers out there.
I cycle only to off road - can't imagine I'll ever change either. Just my opinion loike. 

If the red runs are too bad I'll make do with the blue 15 miler - not very exciting but a couple of laps will keep my hard won fitness going during the slopfest.


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## lulubel (22 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Don't have a road bike and never will - don't take offence but I find road biking just boring, would rather do an hour on a treadmill - not to mention dangerous with some of the idiot drivers out there.
> I cycle only to off road - can't imagine I'll ever change either. Just my opinion loike.


 
On a road bike, you can go very fast. Or you can cruise along effortlessly and just look at the view. A road bike can take you places that a MTB can't (unless you put it in the car) because it covers the distance so quickly. Road bikes feel light, even if your road bike is only a kilo lighter than your MTB. They make climbs feel shorter. And the thrill of swooping down a long hill and feeling the cornering forces as you take the bend at the bottom just right is hard to beat (for me).

But there's a lot that MTBs can do that road bikes can't, which is why I love both. Variety works best for me.

(I do ride the MTB on the road when the weather's vile, though. There's no point in getting both bikes filthy.)


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## Motozulu (23 Dec 2012)

I'm a coward is the plain truth. I'd rather take my chances on a wet rocky downhill than ride on our roads - the standard of driver awareness for bikers is truly shocking. I appreciate the speed thing on the roads but it aint for me.


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> I'm a coward is the plain truth. I'd rather take my chances on a wet rocky downhill than ride on our roads - the standard of driver awareness for bikers is truly shocking. I appreciate the speed thing on the roads but it aint for me.


still hurt myself more and more often off-road than I do on tarmac, and I commute 3-4 days a week on a bike.


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## Drago (23 Dec 2012)

A lot of my local cycle-rights-of-way are a soggy ubrideable quagmire, thanks to horse riders who thing its ok to grind the surface to a pulp and deny the other legal users use of the route. If I churned it up like that in a 4x4 they'd be screaming blue murder, yet you can do as much criminal damages as you like of you're on a horse and no one cares.


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## Cubist (23 Dec 2012)

Not riding much round here either. The whole place is just so sodden it's taken most of the pleasure out of riding. I may even have to ride the road bike for a bit of exercise.


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## lulubel (23 Dec 2012)

I'm kind of glad to see you all posting this.

When we got our first (cheap) MTBs, we'd just had a month of almost continuous rain. We tried to go for a ride on them, but gave up and came home, thinking "this is no fun" because the mud was almost up to the wheel axles in a lot of places. I thought we were just being wimps!


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## Alan57 (23 Dec 2012)

Went out today for 20 miles on my MTB ,mainly on the roads as the moors were totally sodden and the road/track up from the village was like a river . Lots of standing water on the main road , saw a couple of roadies out but , to be honest , I wouldn`t chance it as the water hides pot holes, debris, dead sheep  and god know`s what . Love my road bike , but at present it`s "horses for courses" and the roads around here just ain`t worth the chancing of it.


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## Motozulu (23 Dec 2012)

> still hurt myself more and more often off-road than I do on tarmac, and I commute 3-4 days a week on a bike.


 
Which is all true - until the day you lose an argument with a 38 tonne East European artic with a very tired Polish driver.

I'll take my chances with a static beech, ta very much. Hurting is better than feeling nothing!


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## lulubel (23 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Which is all true - until the day you lose an argument with a 38 tonne East European artic with a very tired Polish driver.
> 
> I'll take my chances with a static beech, ta very much. Hurting is better than feeling nothing!


 
You know you're contradicting your sig line with these kind of posts, don't you?

(Just winding you up, by the way. I've got no argument with what type of bikes, or where, you prefer to ride.)


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## adamangler (23 Dec 2012)

love winter mtb. its a proper mud bath, but i dont mind going out and getting blathered, went thru a road bridge today with water over the cranks feet up in the air, pulling myself through via a railing.Get out, get cold soaked and have fun.


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## User19783 (23 Dec 2012)

Hi motozulu,
Can you keeps us posted on the conditions , as I am going to cannock soon, new year day is looking good.


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## lukesdad (24 Dec 2012)

Sounds like everybody is having the rain we have all year, a lot of the track ive built at home is all weather for this reason.


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## Motozulu (24 Dec 2012)

Yes User19783 - will do. Was going to go today but seriously it's just bucketing down and I know part of the Dog at least is shut down - I'm going to try tomorrow morning (yes I know it's Crimbo day but Mrs Zulu is working so we're having Christmas when she gets home). I have held off because I don't want to damage the trails by riding in this weather but the blue routes are mostly hardpack fire road so I can ride them guilt free. Will report back on conditions tomorrow.


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## Motozulu (24 Dec 2012)

No probs Lulu - I know you for one have come off worst in an argument with a car! The only bit of my ride that I don't enjoy is the 3 miles I have to do on the road to get to the Chase, lorries going past me with about 6 inches to spare


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## Motozulu (24 Dec 2012)

Luke - you've built a track at home!  tell us more - any piccies?


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## Peteaud (24 Dec 2012)

The only thing putting me off the MTB at the moment is the dire Elixir brakes (that are going to be binned and some nice Deore to be fitted) when time and money allow.


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## Motozulu (24 Dec 2012)

I hear this time and time again - glad my new bike has the Formula RX's! what is so bad about the avids Pete? and how can such a big company keep getting it so wrong? don't they have a testing department? also if they are so bad why are so many makes of bike equipping them?


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## lulubel (24 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> what is so bad about the avids Pete?


 
I'd be interested to know this to. The comments I've seen other people make are along the lines of, "They work fine - until they don't."

My OH has Avids on her bike, and she isn't finding them very easy, but I think it's because she's finding it hard to get used to the light touch you need with disc brakes, compared to the death grip she needs to stop her road bike. I think, riding a MTB with Vs before I got my Cube gave me a chance to get used to more powerful brakes gradually rather than being thrown straight in at the deep end. Having said that, I'm the one who's had the rear wheel off the ground (unintentionally) - or at least she hasn't admitted to it!


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## lukesdad (27 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Luke - you've built a track at home!  tell us more - any piccies?


 there are a few on the forum I think, it gets added to every year built in my 5 acres of woodland on the side of a steep valley. 300ft top to bottom. When the weather perks up i ll take some more piccies.


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## Cubist (27 Dec 2012)

Motozulu said:


> I hear this time and time again - glad my new bike has the Formula RX's! what is so bad about the avids Pete? and how can such a big company keep getting it so wrong? don't they have a testing department? also if they are so bad why are so many makes of bike equipping them?


Avids work really well. They stop the bike well, they are light and powerful.... BUT

They are a complete pig to align/set up properly. The Elixir Rs on my Boardman needed adjusting every ride to stop them from singing/rubbing. 
They are a pig to bleed, and they need bleeding regularly.
Many people can't be bothered to adjust/set them up/bleed them, so unless you are prepared to invest time energy and effort in them there is zero joy of ownership.
So many bikes fit them as standard equipment because they are light and powerful. They are also absolutely dirt cheap. Avid's sole market is OEM, simply because the cognoscenti won't buy them aftermarket. 
Those in the know buy a bike with Avids on them and put them straight on Ebay. If you have any spannering ability whatsoever you can get a set of Shimanos (M435 Deore at CRC for £15 an end last week) or M596 Deore from Germany for £60 or some SLX from Germany for £110, or XT for £130. That's for the set, front and rear. All you have to do is swap the hoses over. 

Brake Wars on Singletrackworld.com rage between the polarised camps of Hope VS Shimano. I'll let you nip over there and read them , but basically the oldSkoolers love the ownership and faffage of Hopes, which are repairable when they go wrong/soft/leak, or Shimano which cost half as much but you can't get spares to rebuild them. They either work superbly, or you throw the caliper away and buy a new one for next to knack-all.


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## Hacienda71 (28 Dec 2012)

I just went round the Marin Trail today and it was fine. some muddy puddles but nothing to stop you in your tracks. Interesting to see that there had been some recent maintenance to it and the introduction of a series of drop offs since the last time I rode it about 18 months ago.


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## Motozulu (28 Dec 2012)

> there are a few on the forum I think, it gets added to every year built in my 5 acres of woodland on the side of a steep valley. 300ft top to bottom. When the weather perks up i ll take some more piccies.


 
Luke that sounds brilliant - time for a Cyclechat party round yours then?  and Cubist - thanks for the answer to the Avids and I understand more clearly now. As a non fan of faffage I'd be in the Shimano camp methinks.


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## HovR (28 Dec 2012)

Going to the forest today, planning on doing the Verderers and Freeminers trail with a few from the club. It's supposed to be a bit damp, but they're not called all-weather trails for nothing, so I guess we'll just see what happens!


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## Cubist (28 Dec 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> I just went round the Marin Trail today and it was fine. some muddy puddles but nothing to stop you in your tracks. Interesting to see that there had been some recent maintenance to it and the introduction of a series of drop offs since the last time I rode it about 18 months ago.


Cubester and I rode the Marin in September. We'd heard a lot about the final descent, how terrible it had become, but how well it rode now that it had been rebuilt. I can honestly say it's the most fun piece of MTB trail I've ever ridden. Those steps and turns make all that saw-tooth profile worthwhile.


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## cubby (28 Dec 2012)

We have been out a few times on the MTB's lately and its all about finding the right routes ..... Some of the more well known ones are ruined, but there are still plenty of good riding to be had ...
Saddleworth - 23rd December, Dale near the end of a 20 mile ride and still cleanish


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## cubby (28 Dec 2012)

Also yesterdays ride at Huddersfield was a mud free ride .... 23 miles of hard packed trails, some standing water about but great fun ...


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## lukesdad (28 Dec 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> I just went round the Marin Trail today and it was fine. some muddy puddles but nothing to stop you in your tracks. Interesting to see that there had been some recent maintenance to it and the introduction of a series of drop offs since the last time I rode it about 18 months ago.


Blimey H 00.02 this morning and you ve already done a ride that's some going


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## HovR (28 Dec 2012)

HovR said:


> Going to the forest today, planning on doing the Verderers and Freeminers trail with a few from the club. It's supposed to be a bit damp, but they're not called all-weather trails for nothing, so I guess we'll just see what happens!


 
Had a great day out on the trails, we ended up doing Verderers (which is mostly fine apart from one or two sections soft sections) twice as it's such a good route. Some standing water on the hardpack but still a great day out. Freeminers is pretty much the same, some mud in places but not much.


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## lukesdad (28 Dec 2012)

Nice piccies cubby.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Dec 2012)

so frickkin' wet down here I can't even get to the shed to get the mtb out!


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## Licramite (29 Dec 2012)

cubby said:


> We have been out a few times on the MTB's lately and its all about finding the right routes ..... Some of the more well known ones are ruined, but there are still plenty of good riding to be had ...
> Saddleworth - 23rd December, Dale near the end of a 20 mile ride and still cleanish


 
look on your face say's it all. - sod the mud and wet. - lovin it.


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