# Isotonic Drinks.Yay or Nay.



## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

I pretty much have had the same routine for 24 years.
1 hour before I go out,I have a bowl of oats and that gives me some slow release energy.
On the trails,when I stop off,I have some cereal bars and good old Orange barley water.
This seems to get me through my ride fine.
However,when I get in and showered,I still feel dehydrated and develop a splitting headache.
Went out today and did 24 miles of trails,so I'm sitting here taking paracetemol.Again.
Could this be(what the makers say),not replacing the right fluids and body salts ?
Or is it just marketing bullcrap ?
Thanks in advance.


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## midlife (17 Apr 2016)

Unless you are sweating profusely you can rehydrate on plenty of water alone, try putting a spoonful of sugar and some salt in your drink next time to see if it helps but more than likely not. Bitd we had "accolade" which did the same thing. 

Shaun


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

Thanks Shaun,I'll certainly give that a try.Try anything really.
I sweat quite a lot during the summer obviously,but today,even though it was windy and cold,I broke sweat.
But not overly.
My thoughts were the same about water,as long as you have enough you should be fine.
I'm just not these days.


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## Kajjal (17 Apr 2016)

I dehyrate quite quickly when mountain biking in the summer and just take water and muesli bars with me. I found sugary drinks during the ride leave me very thirsty. Before riding try drinking some water in advance and afterwards i find a chocolate milkshake helps recovery after long rides. 

Do you run out if water during rides ?


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## fossyant (17 Apr 2016)

More water.


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

Kajjal said:


> I dehyrate quite quickly when mountain biking in the summer and just take water and muesli bars with me. I found sugary drinks during the ride leave me very thirsty. Before riding try drinking some water in advance and afterwards i find a chocolate milkshake helps recovery after long rides.
> 
> Do you run out if water during rides ?



Well I do take the Orange Barley on rides,sugar free incidently.
I don't run out of drinks on rides,no.
I will try the water,sugar and salt concoction,see if that helps.


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

fossyant said:


> More water.


Simple advice,yet says so much.


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## jefmcg (17 Apr 2016)

Do you drink less coffee/tea on days you take your long rides? Your headache could be caffeine withdrawal.

This is the reason some OTC headache remedies have caffeine. Quietly fixes your headache without you realising you are addicted.

(edit: just to be clear, I am addicted to caffeine, but know it and recognise the headache)


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## steve50 (17 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> I pretty much have had the same routine for 24 years.
> 1 hour before I go out,I have a bowl of oats and that gives me some slow release energy.
> On the trails,when I stop off,I have some cereal bars and good old Orange barley water.
> This seems to get me through my ride fine.
> ...


All of the above suggestions are great and very helpful but if you consider you are drinking enough fluids whilst out riding (how much fluid do you drink over a 24 mile ride) you might have an underlying health issue that needs treating. pounding headaches could indicate a blood pressure issue (high bp) . I would seriously suggest you make an appointment to see your gp or practice nurse for a health check, if it achieves nothing else it will give you peace of mind that you are in generaly good health.


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

Aaah,I do drink a good amount of coffee in the mornings and a few when I get home.
We could be narrowing it down now.
Cheers.


jefmcg said:


> Do you drink less coffee/tea on days you take your long rides? Your headache could be caffeine withdrawal.
> 
> This is the reason some OTC headache remedies have caffeine. Quietly fixes your headache without you realising you are addicted.
> 
> (edit: just to be clear, I am addicted to caffeine, but know it and recognise the headache)


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

steve50 said:


> All of the above suggestions are great and very helpful but if you consider you are drinking enough fluids whilst out riding (how much fluid do you drink over a 24 mile ride) you might have an underlying health issue that needs treating. pounding headaches could indicate a blood pressure issue (high bp) . I would seriously suggest you make an appointment to see your gp or practice nurse for a health check, if it achieves nothing else it will give you peace of mind that you are in generaly good health.



This is all good stuff guys,and I appreciate your efforts.
I made a self diagnosis if you like,and put it down to not replacing the "right" fluids and salts.
@steve50 .I WILL do this,thanks.Not getting any younger,so even if it is nothing underlying,I have at least checked it.
It could be any one of the things suggested.


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## jefmcg (17 Apr 2016)

steve50 said:


> could indicate a blood pressure issue (high bp)


Oh, good point. Because the isotonic drinks contain salt, and you should not take (nor need) more salt if you have high blood pressure. 

Your local GP nurse should be able to test that for you. 

Headaches are serious, and should not be ignored. You shouldn't have one after a 24 mile ride. Your GP will probably tell you to ignore it. My friend who had a stroke took about a week before he was correctly diagnosed; at first he was sent home with paracetemol. But you should take it seriously. Your symptoms don't sound like a stroke, I'm just using that as an example.


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## OskarTennisChampion (17 Apr 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Oh, good point. Because the isotonic drinks contain salt, and you should not take (nor need) more salt if you have high blood pressure.
> 
> Your local GP nurse should be able to test that for you.
> 
> Headaches are serious, and should not be ignored. You shouldn't have one after a 24 mile ride. Your GP will probably tell you to ignore it. My friend who had a stroke took about a week before he was correctly diagnosed; at first he was sent home with paracetemol. But you should take it seriously. Your symptoms don't sound like a stroke, I'm just using that as an example.



Yep,better safe than sorry.
I will make an appointment.
Again,thanks to all.


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## jefmcg (17 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Yep,better safe than sorry.
> I will make an appointment.
> Again,thanks to all.


I am SOOOO not a doctor, but you might want to go for ride just before your appointment. Maybe talk to them when you make the appointment.


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## ayceejay (17 Apr 2016)

Analysis is your friend.
If the only thing that has changed in those 24 years is your age and the headaches - the problem is age related.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2016)

Are you properly hydrated before you go out and not just with coffee? What colour is your urine when you get back? Do you properly rehydrate when you get home and not just with coffee?

How long are you cycling for and how much do you drink in that time? I'd think the cereal bars will be giving you some of the sugar and salt you are using


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## nickyboy (18 Apr 2016)

Going to the GP sounds like good advice.

One more suggestion:

If you're riding hard and you set off a bit dehydrated, you never catch up. You have to be well hydrated before you even get on the bike.Coffee is useless for this. Try drinking a pint of water when you eat your porridge.

I invariably wake up somewhat dehydrated (you can tell by the colour of your pee) so I always drink plenty of water before setting off on a hard ride

Edit: TMN to @vickster


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## Bazzer (18 Apr 2016)

As @vickster suggests, check your pee.
I thought coffee was a diuretic, so personally I will not touch it or tea after a ride, unless I am seriously cold. And even then I will take the same amount of fluid in another form. I'll do the same before a ride too, (say commuting to work and a cuppa with breakfast), 
I get banging headaches if dehydrated. Consultant who manages a couple of resident kidney stones, says 2 litres of fluid a day, (excluding tea, coffee). More if exercising.
In a similar vein to what @nickyboy said, I was told if you are thirsty, you are already showing the first signs of dehydration, so are are already playing catch up.


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## OskarTennisChampion (18 Apr 2016)

Going to cover all bases.
Cut out Coffee before rides and drink water.
An appointment with the Doc on Friday booked already.
All going well there,stick to above coffee and water drinking.
And take aplenty water with me on rides.
@ayceejay .You may well be right
My pee is quite dark,so yeah,not enough fluids.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2016)

If you drink a lot of coffee, best to start to reduce regardless, do fairly gradually to reduce withdrawal symptoms, I.e headaches


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## jefmcg (18 Apr 2016)

I wouldn't skip the coffee. Caffeine is only a diuretic if you aren't accustomed to it. It shouldn't dehydrate you if you are regular drinker. If it did, my grandparents would have died of thirst; I never saw my nanna drink anything but tea - oh, except the occasional sherry. Even if you aren't getting caffeine headaches now, skipping that coffee might give it to you.

And even though doctors say it, there is no evidence that you need 8 glasses (2 litres) of water a day. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/13/myth-eight-glasses-water-day. You should drink when you are thirsty, but as @OskarTennisChampion says he is thirsty at the end of a ride, he should be drinking more. But that can be tea, coffee or - bless - beer!


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## nickyboy (18 Apr 2016)

jefmcg said:


> I wouldn't skip the coffee. Caffeine is only a diuretic if you aren't accustomed to it. It shouldn't dehydrate you if you are regular drinker. If it did, my grandparents would have died of thirst; I never saw my nanna drink anything but tea - oh, except the occasional sherry. Even if you aren't getting caffeine headaches now, skipping that coffee might give it to you.
> 
> And even though doctors say it, there is no evidence that you need 8 glasses (2 litres) of water a day. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/13/myth-eight-glasses-water-day. You should drink when you are thirsty, but as @OskarTennisChampion says he is thirsty at the end of a ride, he should be drinking more. But that can be tea, coffee or - bless - beer!



With respect, the OP states his pee is quite dark before he sets off for a ride. That's not an optimal situation and, if you ride hard, you will, in all probability, become more dehydrated.

The advice (or otherwise) regarding how much water to drink on a normal day has very little relevance to how much you should drink if you do a hard ride. On a warm day riding hard in the Peak District I drink a litre/hour and I need every drop

Sure, drink whatever you like after your ride within reason. But before a hard ride you need to get hydrated and water is pretty good for that.

The key here is "hard ride". I've occasionally done very social, flat rides and have drunk very little on it. But hard riding on a warm day.....different matter entirely


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## jefmcg (18 Apr 2016)

@nickyboy, what part of "he should be drinking more" did you not understand? We seem to be violently agreeing with each other.


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## Luddite Joe (18 Apr 2016)

I used to often get a mild headache after a 2-3 hour ride and it would last all day.
I tried drinking loads thinking it was dehydration. 
I tried different foods, pre- and post - ride. 
I tried different positions on the bike, thinking maybe I was straining my neck or shoulders.
Nothing seemed to alleviate the headaches. 
Then I read somewhere that eating bananas can help, so I tried that and bingo! No more headaches. 
I take a banana with me on every ride now and don't suffer headaches any more.
Even on 100 mile rides one banana does the trick and I'll usually only drink about 2 litres of fluids.
Might be worth a try.


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## Crackle (18 Apr 2016)

Interesting thread. I've noticed an increasing frequency to succumb to bugs after long rides. I'm not particularly sure what the cause of this is yet, after all it could be anything. One thing I have decided to change is my coffee start. I tried increasing the amount of water I drank on a ride but I ended up knowing the location of quite a few farm gates and hedges. I put this down to the mild diuretic effect of coffee. Instead I'll dispense with the coffee first thing and load with water, have the coffee later. At least I know where the farm gates are if the water goes straight through!


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## jefmcg (18 Apr 2016)

Luddite Joe said:


> Then I read somewhere that eating bananas can help, so I tried that and bingo! No more headaches.


Hmm, that probably potassium. That's also in isotonic drinks.

@OskarTennisChampion the NHS offers an over-40 health check. I hadn't been offered one, so contacted my gp and asked for it. Lots of basic things, including blood pressure, diabetes and some standard blood tests. Might be worth seeing if you can get one of them.


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## ayceejay (18 Apr 2016)

What jef says. It is certainly dangerous to assume that the cause is dehydration. Note that one basic check in Jef's list is diabetes and a fluctuation in blood sugar could give you a headache and a sugary drink is not going to help at all.


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## OskarTennisChampion (18 Apr 2016)

Lots of interesting angles here guys,and all very feasible and helpful.
I will get the doc's appointment out of the way,and get back to you all.
Thanks again.


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## albion (23 Apr 2016)

The coffee thing is a myth. Even doctors fall for it!

Coffee boosts performance.


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## Travs (24 Apr 2016)

Agreed - caffeine definitely has a positive impact both pyschologically and physically in my experience.

As for @Crackle - succumbing to bugs is common where your energy levels have been hit and your natural defences are down. I've seen a few stories of people upping their Vit C levels to counter; I usually take a dissolvable one in a pint of water post ride; or you can try a Cit-c focussed juice thing etc.


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## Crackle (24 Apr 2016)

Travs said:


> Agreed - caffeine definitely has a positive impact both pyschologically and physically in my experience.
> 
> As for @Crackle - succumbing to bugs is common where your energy levels have been hit and your natural defences are down. I've seen a few stories of people upping their Vit C levels to counter; I usually take a dissolvable one in a pint of water post ride; or you can try a Cit-c focussed juice thing etc.


That's what I'm currently doing. Vit C. See if it works.


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## Crackle (24 Apr 2016)

User13710 said:


> You might be barking up the wrong tree there, @Crackle. Did you know you can now get "performance coffee"? http://www.truestartcoffee.com/ No, neither did I, until Wiggle sent me a sample of it in with an order.
> 
> This "performance coffee" was developed when a husband-and-wife team of triathletes noticed that "their pre-training coffee was having a random effect on their performance". Apparently it's the only coffee in the world "designed specifically for sports performance". Apparently the developers have "an incredible vision for a global TeamTrueStart, connected by the power of team spirit, authenticity and determination" ... and all sorts of other stuff that made me go and check the date, to make sure it wasn't April 1st. One of the "consumer reviews" says, "This stuff is great, it tastes just like coffee."


What will they think of next eh! performance peppermint tea maybe......


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## Jody (24 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Aaah,I do drink a good amount of coffee in the mornings and a few when I get home.
> We could be narrowing it down now.
> Cheers.



I suffered quite a few years with bad headaches which sometimes lasted days. Tried cutting tea and caffeine products which helped but didn't get rid of them. In the end I found it was a combination of hydration, weight and caffeine regulation. Stopped having multiple cups of tea through the day at work in favour of water, don't drink tea in the evening and dropped a couple of stone in weight. My scales at home have gone from calculating 51% water content to 58%. It's months since I last had a headache. I don't know if it's one or all three reasons but it's worked.


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## srw (3 May 2016)

User13710 said:


> Only because I'm sure you're all wondering whether this stuff works, I tried the free sample of this performance-enhancing coffee-like substance ... which is, in fact, coffee. It was a bit bitter, I didn't like it much, and the caffeine made slogging into a freezing cold headwind this morning not noticeably easier. I don't think I'll bother to buy any.


Flipping expensive coffee. It's £6.99 for 80g. For that price I'd expect single estate whole beans, not instant granules - a 500g tin of naffcaff is only £10 or so.

And the "guaranteed caffeine" bit is a fudge too - it's 95mg +/- 20mg. That's probably a 90% confidence interval, so all they're claiming as that 9 out of 10 packets are within 20% of the caffeine level they state. Which isn't exactly a wildly reliable stat.

If anyone falls for this nonsense I've got a helmet I can sell them - guaranteed safe - and a packet of dehydrated water.


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## Jody (3 May 2016)

srw said:


> .......... and a packet of dehydrated water.



Could save some weight on long rides.


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## tyred (5 May 2016)

Jody said:


> Could save some weight on long rides.



I tried making my own dehydrated water but all that happened was that the gas ring burned a hole in the saucepan.


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## bozmandb9 (5 May 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> I pretty much have had the same routine for 24 years.
> 1 hour before I go out,I have a bowl of oats and that gives me some slow release energy.
> On the trails,when I stop off,I have some cereal bars and good old Orange barley water.
> This seems to get me through my ride fine.
> ...



If you don't have electrolytes in your water, you need around 1.7 times as much water. Personally, I used to ride with just water, now I used electrolytes, I find it better. I have made other changes alongside this, so can't 100% say it's the electrolytes, but I was at the Sports Nutrition Live seminar a couple of weeks back, and that's where I heard the 1.7 figure, from one of the top people in UK sports nutrition.

Regarding the headaches, how hard are you going at those 24 miles? I've encountered migraine like headaches at the end of really tough athletics trainings. Never thought to put it down to dehydration or the like, but that was in the days before I used electrolytes. Also I sweat a lot! I'd say if you feel dehydrated, it could be that too much caffeine is making you dehydrated.

Like others say, see your GP, to eliminate blood pressure or anything more serious, then consider cutting down caffeine, and looking more at proper hydration (with or without electrolytes). If you don't want to buy into the BS, it's perfectly easy to make your own natural electrolyte mix.


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## ColinJ (5 May 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Regarding the headaches, how hard are you going at those 24 miles?


I think that might be the key ...

24 miles on the road should not cause too many problems, even 24 hilly miles.

24 miles of trails could be a different matter. If they are flat and well-surfaced trails then they wouldn't be much harder than the road, but if they are 'gnarly' trails like some of the very challenging bridleways round here then you could be talking > 3 times the difficulty of a road ride of that length.

I did a local 50 mile offroad ride and it was harder than all of the 130+ mile mega-hilly road rides that I have completed.


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## bozmandb9 (5 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> I think that might be the key ...
> 
> 24 miles on the road should not cause too many problems, even 24 hilly miles.
> 
> ...



Too right. I did a much shorter off road, and whilst I didn't get a headache, I did find it a pain in the a**e! Ended up finishing it on roads (I think I discovered that the riverside is far too boggy in March!


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## 2IT (5 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> That's what I'm currently doing. Vit C. See if it works.



Have been using a couple of lemon slices in my bottle of water. Surprisingly it is nutritionally like Gatorade without the false sugars. And also helps rinse the kidneys better taking out uric acid. No unhealthy calories. 

I'm all for drinking tonics or a beer after a long ride and coffee in the morning.


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## Crackle (5 May 2016)

2IT said:


> Have been using a couple of lemon slices in my bottle of water. Surprisingly it is nutritionally like Gatorade without the false sugars. And also helps rinse the kidneys better taking out uric acid. No unhealthy calories.
> 
> I'm all for drinking tonics or a beer after a long ride and coffee in the morning.


Might be an idea to try and the beer is already on my list. The vitamin C and Zinc seem to be working for me, maybe my immune system just needed a boost or maybe it was just the crappy weather this year.


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## e-rider (5 May 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> I pretty much have had the same routine for 24 years.
> 1 hour before I go out,I have a bowl of oats and that gives me some slow release energy.
> On the trails,when I stop off,I have some cereal bars and good old Orange barley water.
> This seems to get me through my ride fine.
> ...


well why don't you buy some isotonic drink product and see if it makes a difference - a £5 investment isn't much compared to how much money many people spend on cycling.


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## Dogtrousers (5 May 2016)

Years ago, when I was a runner, I remember a discussion on a running board about isotonic jelly babies. The theory was that if you drank just the right amount of water with each jelly baby you had an isotonic drink. The discussion went on for quite a while and I think the conclusion was "a couple of mouthfuls of water, and chew the jelly baby well". But I could be wrong.


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