# Corona Virus: How Are We Doing?



## Smokin Joe (12 Mar 2020)

So have any CCers been effected so far? (Badly phrased first question, "Yes" means you've definitely got it).

You can change your vote if necessary.


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## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2020)

If I get it I get it. I work in a shop, a busy one... every surface i touch could be contaminated. We have plenty of hand sanitiser, but unless i use it after everything i touch, it's just a placebo really.


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2020)

Sitting opposite a colleague whose husband is in quarantine


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## Cycleops (12 Mar 2020)

There have been very few reported cases in Africa so far, don't know what that indicates. So if anyone wants to get away from it here might be a good place to escape.
Mixed blessing for me as I want to come over to the UK around Easter. Airline seats are dirt cheap right now but what chances do I have of catching it if I come?


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## nickyboy (12 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> If I get it I get it. I work in a shop, a busy one... every surface i touch could be contaminated. We have plenty of hand sanitiser, but unless i use it after everything i touch, it's just a placebo really.


There is plenty you can practically do to reduce your risk, it's never a case of "if I get it I get it"
Wear gloves at all times, this reduces the likelihood of you touching your face with your hands
Maintain minimum distances from customers and colleagues
At the moment you take off your gloves, wash/sanitize your hands. Difficult to remove gloves without passing any virus onto your hands


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## Smokin Joe (12 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> There is plenty you can practically do to reduce your risk, it's never a case of "if I get it I get it"
> Wear gloves at all times, this reduces the likelihood of you touching your face with your hands
> Maintain minimum distances from customers and colleagues
> At the moment you take off your gloves, wash/sanitize your hands. Difficult to remove gloves without passing any virus onto your hands


Umless you wash the gloves every time you wear them I don't see the point.


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## marinyork (12 Mar 2020)

My father has been on a respiratory ward. The hospital decided he hasn't got flu, coronavirus or anything like that. He is hopefully going home today (been in since last week). The very quiet and tranquil conditions another member posted about in another hospital is not something I recognise. It's pretty busy.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

You need an option for "I or someone close had the symptoms but NHS 111 said didn't need testing"

Wife has had the symptoms but due to no link to China, Italy etc. advice was just to get better and carry on as normal. May or may not have been exposed to Covid-19. I do not know.


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## numbnuts (12 Mar 2020)

God do we need this as it like "bring out your dead" thread


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## Rusty Nails (12 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> My father has been on a respiratory ward. The hospital decided he hasn't got flu, coronavirus or anything like that. He is hopefully going home today (been in since last week). The very quiet and tranquil conditions another member posted about in another hospital is not something I recognise. It's pretty busy.


And it will get much busier.

My son has been sent home from work because of a case in one part of the very large building. The office has sent home anyone with health issues such as lung/chest/cardiac problems or weakened immune systems. Luckily (or unluckily) for him he can do much of his work online so it stops the boredom setting in.


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## Yellow Saddle (12 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Sitting opposite a colleague whose husband is in quarantine



This is a long shot, but...could I have that red mountain bike of yours should the unmentionable happen?

Hurry up, sit closer. I need it for next weekend. I see a gap in the weather.


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## nickyboy (12 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Umless you wash the gloves every time you wear them I don't see the point.


Virus has a much shorter "life" on fabrics than hard surfaces so when you come to put them on the next day any virus should be inert. In any case, the benefit to the individual is that you don't touch your face with your hand. Wearing gloves discourages this whether the glove is clean or not.
Alternative is to wear disposable gloves. They are 5p per pair


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## CanucksTraveller (12 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You need an option for "I or someone close had the symptoms but NHS 111 said didn't need testing"
> 
> Wife has had the symptoms but due to no link to China, Italy etc. advice was just to get better and carry on as normal. May or may not have been exposed to Covid-19. I do not know.



Exactly my situation, my wife is really ill with flu symptoms and respiratory distress but as she's not been in China etc there's apparently no need for a test. 
My daughter is also still expected in school since she's reasonably well. (A cough and some cold symptoms but not serious).


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## Joey Shabadoo (12 Mar 2020)

I was turned away from a factory today - "Essential visitors only". Can see me working from home soon


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## Milkfloat (12 Mar 2020)

Cycleops said:


> There have been very few reported cases in Africa so far, don't know what that indicates.



Probably that there is not much testing going on.


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## stephec (12 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You need an option for "I or someone close had the symptoms but NHS 111 said didn't need testing"
> 
> Wife has had the symptoms but due to no link to China, Italy etc. advice was just to get better and carry on as normal. May or may not have been exposed to Covid-19. I do not know.


That'll be me. 

On 19th and 20th Feb I was working with some Italians who were all stopped and sent home as they were from an infected region, on the 28th I start with flu and dial 111. After explaining this I was told I wouldn't be tested unless one of the Italians was a confirmed case, and I wasn't advised to self isolate. 

My own doctor said she can't authorise a test so treat it as normal flu, finally today after two weeks I've managed to walk around for more than a minute without feeling light headed. 

And the worst thing, I've not had any beer or an espresso for almost a fortnight. 😕


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## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> There is plenty you can practically do to reduce your risk, it's never a case of "if I get it I get it"
> Wear gloves at all times, this reduces the likelihood of you touching your face with your hands
> *Maintain minimum distances from customers and colleagues*
> At the moment you take off your gloves, wash/sanitize your hands. Difficult to remove gloves without passing any virus onto your hands


it's always a case of if I get it I get it. Reduced risk is not an eliminated risk.

what would that minimum distance be then? I've heard it's a meter... which is impossible in my workplace.


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## Fab Foodie (12 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I was turned away from a factory today - "Essential visitors only". Can see me working from home soon


That's pretty-much my lot for now. Even Ireland is shutting-down, so hopefully won't need to go to head-office there either!
May have to work from Motorhome....


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2020)

Yellow Saddle said:


> This is a long shot, but...could I have that red mountain bike of yours should the unmentionable happen?
> 
> Hurry up, sit closer. I need it for next weekend. I see a gap in the weather.



I don't have a red MTB. I have a red fixie going spare


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## stephec (12 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's pretty-much my lot for now. Even Ireland is shutting-down, so hopefully won't need to go to head-office there either!
> May have to work from Motorhome....


How soon will it be before the deluge of 999 calls because McDonald's are out of nuggets?


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## raleighnut (12 Mar 2020)

Maz saw a Chinese bloke in Sainsburys in town yesterday........................Wearing a facemask


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## nickyboy (12 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> it's always a case of if I get it I get it. Reduced risk is not an eliminated risk.
> 
> what would that minimum distance be then? I've heard it's a meter... which is impossible in my workplace.


I don't know. But Aldi in Glossop have a minimum distance between staff policy now


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## Fab Foodie (12 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> How soon will it be before the deluge of 999 calls because McDonald's are out of nuggets?


Never!!! The Nugget will always get through....


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## steverob (12 Mar 2020)

Quite a few of the worldwide offices of the company I work for have been shut down and employees are working from home, but not in the London office yet. We are however being asked to take our laptops home and do one day next week just to test whether it would be possible for us to do our job from home or not (both in terms of testing the IT side of things and actually checking what parts of our jobs are feasible to do when not in an office environment).

Considering this place has always been notoriously strict on things like working from home and flexible working, this is a major departure for them. I think then management's major fear is that after all this blows over, assuming it goes okay, that staff will quite like the idea of working from home and push much more for it and they'll no longer be able to get the cat back in the bag!


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## slowmotion (12 Mar 2020)

Judging by the pronouncements of the ever-pessimistic amateur epidemiologists on the other Corona virus thread, shouldn't there be another option in your poll.....

*…..dead ?*


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## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I don't know. But Aldi in Glossop have a *minimum distance between staff* policy now


What about their customers?

How can we possibly maintain a minimum distance working in an environment like this?


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## gavroche (12 Mar 2020)

People never cease to amaze me with their stupidity by panic buying. There is no need whatsoever to panic buy as there is no shortage of food or food deliveries but by behaving the way those idiots do, they are creating a shortage with all its consequences and also forcing other people to follow their selfish attitude. Do we really live in a world of " look after number one first" ? It certainly looks like it. The human race disgusts me really.


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## winjim (12 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> People never cease to amaze me with their stupidity by panic buying. There is no need whatsoever to panic buy as there is no shortage of food or food deliveries but by behaving the way those idiots do, they are creating a shortage with all its consequences and also forcing other people to follow their selfish attitude. Do we really live in a world of " look after number one first" ? It certainly looks like it. The human race disgusts me really.


You know you need to stock up before the supply chains go down, right? And before you're unable to leave the house.

Anyway, we have a breadmaker and a shoot-ton of flour, so we're ok...


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## Smokin Joe (12 Mar 2020)

numbnuts said:


> God do we need this as it like "bring out your dead" thread


Taking part (Or even looking at the thread) is not compulsory.


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## numbnuts (12 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Taking part (Or even looking at the thread) is not compulsory.


I'm glad of that, but being 69 this year I'm just wondering when you will start the obituary column as it will happen sooner than later.


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## Smokin Joe (12 Mar 2020)

numbnuts said:


> I'm glad of that, but being 69 this year I'm just wondering when you will start the obituary column as it will happen sooner than later.


How will we know who to put in it? Few of us ever meet, in months to come someone may start to speculate on why so and so hasn't posted for a while, but people come and go all the time.


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## sleuthey (12 Mar 2020)

So far 35/35 posters inc myself have voted don't have it. If this thread is as reliable as the CC General Election poll then it means we all have the virus.


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## Joey Shabadoo (12 Mar 2020)

Bloke at my work has it. In his late 40s, gym bunny, super fit. Been told to self-isolate.

My retort of "How would we notice" didn't go down well.


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## winjim (12 Mar 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> Probably that there is not much testing going on.


They're doing alright in Senegal apparently

https://qz.com/africa/1816621/coronavirus-rapid-test-kits-to-be-made-in-senegal-with-uk-help/

Overall they've only testing facilities in Senegal, South Africa, Ghana, Madagascar, Nigeria and Sierra Leone though.


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## Chris S (12 Mar 2020)

I wouldn't want to infect a vulnerable person so I've started to take my temperature every morning. It should be about 37C, mine's barely been above 36C.


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## Beebo (12 Mar 2020)

Our daughter has a dry cough so she’ll be off school tomorrow.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> How soon will it be before the deluge of 999 calls because McDonald's are out of nuggets?



Anyone want to touch the McDonalads touch screen to order ? I never did even before this pandemic.


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## Smokin Joe (12 Mar 2020)

sleuthey said:


> So far 35/35 posters inc myself have voted don't have it. If this thread is as reliable as the CC General Election poll then it means we all have the virus.


"So far" are the operative words. That is likely to change and it will be telling to see by how much and over what time period.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

Cycleops said:


> There have been very few reported cases in Africa so far, don't know what that indicates. So if anyone wants to get away from it here might be a good place to escape.



I suspect same as eastern europe. Not being tested or not being reported. Given it’s infection rate it only needs to land with one person and soon enough it’ll begin to build.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Exactly my situation, my wife is really ill with flu symptoms and respiratory distress but as she's not been in China etc there's apparently no need for a test.
> My daughter is also still expected in school since she's reasonably well. (A cough and some cold symptoms but not serious).



This is the problem and why I think we are seeing it jumping so rapidly. Now during the height of my wife’s fever my nose ran for a couple of days. I suspect I would be classed as asymptomatic and a potential super spreader. It was impossible to be self isolated from her as I needed to look after her. So I had plenty of exposure to what she had. But because they won’t test her they certainly won’t test me as I don’t even have symptoms. This will be the case for many thousands upon thousands.


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## HMS_Dave (12 Mar 2020)

Nope don't know of anybody yet or any in self isolation, but here in the entire of the Midlands there are approximately 50 confirmed cases but there could be hundreds more in self isolation of course but no-one near me as far as im aware...


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## Nigeyy (12 Mar 2020)

Person in my town (Masschusetts, USA) is confirmed as having it. I know of one person personally who is self isolating but not been tested. They must have been lucky to even get testing as it's a real cluster fudge over here with testing.

A mathematics question: how can 49 votes out of 51 be 100%?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

Chris S said:


> I wouldn't want to infect a vulnerable person so I've started to take my temperature every morning. It should be about 37C, mine's barely been above 36C.



You should not be using the fridge thermometer whilst it’s still in there.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Mar 2020)

I know case uno in this county was a parent at a school 1.5 miles away. The school is not closed. Some of the kids round here almost certainly go to it. It’s almost certainly being transmitted in this local community.


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2020)

Nigeyy said:


> Person in my town (Masschusetts, USA) is confirmed as having it. I know of one person personally who is self isolating but not been tested. They must have been lucky to even get testing as it's a real cluster fudge over here with testing.
> 
> A mathematics question: how can 49 votes out of 51 be 100%?



Your President's maths. Good luck.


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## Nigeyy (12 Mar 2020)

Hmmm. Wish I could laugh at that. I really do. 



fossyant said:


> Your President's maths. Good luck.


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2020)

Working at home tomorrow (University). The Finance Director wants all the 'sort of senior staff' to work from home - only found out as I was leaving as I'm an early start/finish. No issues. Get this, my access is faster at home next to the cooker than in the office plugged in..... I need a plan to work from home more often (I'm expected in every day despite no academics being in on a Friday anyway).


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2020)

My son is out 'paint balling' of sorts with work mates. Their Jobs are running key servers for IT systems. Their data centre is on lock down - i.e. nobody in or out, even employees (hotel on site for those in there). Erm, he isn't back yet from getting sweatty shooting his work mates, I'll chuck him in the shower ASAP. He's not one bit bothered despite elderly relatives, and he's ignored the fact he is in a high risk group - T1 Diabetic - if he get's ill we will have to look after him 24/7.


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## winjim (13 Mar 2020)

Nigeyy said:


> A mathematics question: how can 49 votes out of 51 be 100%?


Multiple voting options. It's possible to both not have it _and_ know someone who has.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

I'm philosophically not that bothered about my survival,more my 23 year old daughter's and my ex wife...and my dog!

Three videos for you. Any of you old enough like me,to remember the first one?


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## Joey Shabadoo (13 Mar 2020)

What a cheery soul you are Private Accy.


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## Dayvo (13 Mar 2020)

I'm in India due to fly home (to Norway) in 13 days. Flights to and from India are severely affected and the planes may be indefinitely grounded. 

As and when I get home I will have to go into, at least, a two-week quaratine at home. 

But I'm fit and healthy, the sun is shining and there is $hit loads of toilet paper (unused!) in all the shops. 

😉😎☀️


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## marinyork (13 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> And it will get much busier.
> 
> My son has been sent home from work because of a case in one part of the very large building. The office has sent home anyone with health issues such as lung/chest/cardiac problems or weakened immune systems. Luckily (or unluckily) for him he can do much of his work online so it stops the boredom setting in.



My father did get out late yesterday.

Under no illusions. The reason why he was admitted was originally the symptoms were similar to coronavirus. This morning he got told to go and see a doctor or a nurse, but he's not allowed in the building, due to a er cough. Telephone advice.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

How do we check our body temperature if we don't have thermometers? I'm thinking that most of those new type ones where you point it at the head have been bought up by the selfish stockpilers. Can we go to a health centre to be tested by a 'treatment room' nurse?


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## AuroraSaab (13 Mar 2020)

They are still available on Amazon for delivery at the end of March. We still have a couple from when the kids were little, and I bought my son one to take back to uni a couple of weeks ago. They are well worth keeping in the drawer, not just for situations like this. I'm a bit of an overbuyer anyway (borderline doomsday prepper..), so having 40 rolls of Costco bog paper, thermometers, and 15 tins of beans on the go, is pretty much de rigueur in our house. One of the reasons we have never bought a big freezer is because I wouldn't be able to stop myself ramming it full of stuff we would never get round to eating.


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## CanucksTraveller (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> How do we check our body temperature if we don't have thermometers? I'm thinking that most of those new type ones where you point it at the head have been bought up by the selfish stockpilers. Can we go to a health centre to be tested by a 'treatment room' nurse?



No. If you have fever and a persistent cough you should be self isolating and not going anywhere near a health centre. 
If you've got a fever and a persistent cough, you'll know. You don't need a thermometer. If you're sat there comfortably, wondering whether your body temperature is raised, it isn't.


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## Joey Shabadoo (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> How do we check our body temperature if we don't have thermometers? I'm thinking that most of those new type ones where you point it at the head have been bought up by the selfish stockpilers. Can we go to a health centre to be tested by a 'treatment room' nurse?




Take a 25mm cube of frozen distilled water with a mass of 15g. Tilt your head back until you can't see the internet and balance the cube on your forehead. During fusion, temperature of the ice and thus temperature difference remains constant, 37 ºC - 0 ºC. So heat rate is constant, if you assume a constant heat transfer coefficient h. Therefore, total energy transferred is equal to 0.0015 kg times enthalpy of fusion (J/kg) of water equal to h (W/m2.K) times superficial area A of the ice mass times temperature difference (37 ºC = 37 K) times time t. From this, you get time t. For the mass of 0.0015 kg you get the volume V with density of ice at 0 ºC (slightly less than 1,000 kg/m3). The question is then what it is the area A, which in our case is 375mm squared. I have taken a typical value of heat transfer to ambient by natural convection and thermal radiation h = 10 W/m2K which means the ice cube should melt completely in 76 minutes and 33 seconds assuming you stay perfectly still and facing away from the internet. If it melts quicker than this, your temperature is elevated.

Get back to us and let us know how you get on.


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## cookiemonster (13 Mar 2020)

I think the Italians will be OK.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11161...aly-coronavirus-lockdown-premium-content/amp/


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## steve292 (13 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Take a 25mm cube of frozen distilled water with a mass of 15g. Tilt your head back until you can't see the internet and balance the cube on your forehead. During fusion, temperature of the ice and thus temperature difference remains constant, 37 ºC - 0 ºC. So heat rate is constant, if you assume a constant heat transfer coefficient h. Therefore, total energy transferred is equal to 0.0015 kg times enthalpy of fusion (J/kg) of water equal to h (W/m2.K) times superficial area A of the ice mass times temperature difference (37 ºC = 37 K) times time t. From this, you get time t. For the mass of 0.0015 kg you get the volume V with density of ice at 0 ºC (slightly less than 1,000 kg/m3). The question is then what it is the area A, which in our case is 375mm squared. I have taken a typical value of heat transfer to ambient by natural convection and thermal radiation h = 10 W/m2K which means the ice cube should melt completely in 76 minutes and 33 seconds assuming you stay perfectly still and facing away from the internet. If it melts quicker than this, your temperature is elevated.
> 
> Get back to us and let us know how you get on.


I'm stealing that as well


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Take a 25mm cube of frozen distilled water with a mass of 15g. Tilt your head back until you can't see the internet and balance the cube on your forehead. During fusion, temperature of the ice and thus temperature difference remains constant, 37 ºC - 0 ºC. So heat rate is constant, if you assume a constant heat transfer coefficient h. Therefore, total energy transferred is equal to 0.0015 kg times enthalpy of fusion (J/kg) of water equal to h (W/m2.K) times superficial area A of the ice mass times temperature difference (37 ºC = 37 K) times time t. From this, you get time t. For the mass of 0.0015 kg you get the volume V with density of ice at 0 ºC (slightly less than 1,000 kg/m3). The question is then what it is the area A, which in our case is 375mm squared. I have taken a typical value of heat transfer to ambient by natural convection and thermal radiation h = 10 W/m2K which means the ice cube should melt completely in 76 minutes and 33 seconds assuming you stay perfectly still and facing away from the internet. If it melts quicker than this, your temperature is elevated.
> 
> Get back to us and let us know how you get on.


Just got back from the health centre. I have a temp'of 150F and been sent home to self isolate!!!😥


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## Joey Shabadoo (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from the health centre. I have a temp'of 150F and been sent home to self isolate!!!😥



In that case, season generously with salt & pepper and add a sprig of rosemary.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from the health centre. I have a temp'of 150F and been sent home to self isolate!!!😥



150°F?
Are you sure the nurse didn't say self-immolate?!


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## steve292 (13 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> 150°F?
> Are you sure the nurse didn't say self-immolate?!


you mean 105 surely? Unless you are a beef brisket.


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## Rocky (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from the health centre. I have a temp'of 150F and been sent home to self isolate!!!😥


I hope you are OK, Accy. Please take care and stay safe.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Mar 2020)

steve292 said:


> you mean 105 surely? Unless you are a beef brisket.




He definitely wrote 150.

All joking aside @Accy cyclist , look after yourself and get well soon.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from the health centre. I have a temp'of 150F and been sent home to self isolate!!!😥



150F , just exactly where did they stick the thermometer?


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Mar 2020)

Can I just remind everyone that if you have a fever and / or cough you should not be going to any health centre. The worst scenario is that health centres or hospitals need to shut down due to any outbreak. Hospitals and health centres already have sick people, do not potentially take the virus there. Ring 111 if you deteriorate but otherwise drink plenty, rest, and self isolate.


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## Inertia (13 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> 150F , just exactly where did they stick the thermometer?


Joeys oven I think


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## Smokin Joe (13 Mar 2020)

150F is normal for Accy, nothing to worry about.

My local health centre will have it's doors locked from Monday, appointments only. Those picking up prescriptions have been asked to nominate a local chemists to get them from instead.


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## vickster (13 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Can I just remind everyone that if you have a fever and / or cough you should not be going to any health centre. The worst scenario is that health centres or hospitals need to shut down due to any outbreak. Hospitals and health centres already have sick people, do not potentially take the virus there. Ring 111 if you deteriorate but otherwise drink plenty, rest, and self isolate.


Paracetamol/ibuprofen for fever and aches (assuming able to tolerate obvs)...plus lots of sweets


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## fossyant (13 Mar 2020)

Morrisons has loo roll, panic over


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## tom73 (13 Mar 2020)

150F you'd be dead.


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## derrick (13 Mar 2020)

tom73 said:


> 150F you'd be dead.


He has not replied.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

They're talking about building up a herd immunity. I've always fancied being a cow,so yes that sounds good!🐂


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## Andy in Germany (13 Mar 2020)

All the local schools and kindergartens will close from next week until after the end of Easter holidays.

Youngest and Middle son had been sent home anyway because there was a case at their school. We were sent a letter from the school saying that the entire family must go to a test centre for testing: there are two in our county. When we tried to arrange this, we were told we could only go by car, because they take the swabs from outside of the car to limit staff exposure to possibly infected patients.
What they do to limit staff exposure to exhaust gases wasn't made clear.
As we don't have a car we were told to call the Bereitschaftsdienst" which is a 24h emergency doctor service and they'd come to us. Except that although we live in the county of Esslingen are right on the border between Esslingen and Stuttgart, and apparently our village comes under the Stuttgart area for non-emergencies. The Esslingen dispatch team were most apologetic and suggested we call after seven PM when apparently this wouldn't matter.
It took three hours to get this far because we kept getting stuck in an aoutomatic system tha would forward us to Esslingen because we have an essslingen postcode. We also hads interesting discussions with the The Federal Emergency central office, Esslingen health service, Stuttgart health service, Reutlingen dispach centre, Stuttgart dispach centre and Esslingen dispatch centre (3 times in that case) our doctor and the children's doctor. All were as helpful as possible, but unfortunately "as helpful as possible" meant sending us to the test centre or another department.
We called again at five past seven, and were forwarded to the same person in Esslingen. He was still apologetic and said he'd talk to the emergency doctor and ask them to make an exception.
Ten minutes later he called back: the Emergency doctor would fit us in, but that meant he'd have to turn up when he did, which could be any time in the night. We thanked him and went to bed.
The doorbell rang at two minutes past midnight. Doctor came upstairs in disposable overalls and respiration mask, and asked who needed testing. He was rather bemused when we said "everyone". He asked who had symptoms. We replied no-one did, but the school had instructed us that because Youngest Son was sitting next to the person who had tested positive, everyone in the family must self-isolate for two weeks, and we all had to be tested.
"In that case, that school will be getting a stern letter tomorrow" was the doctors response.
He disappeared for five minutes to make a phone call, then reappeared minus mask and a lot more friendly, as he'd realised we weren't playing silly devils or about to fall over.
Apparently we've been getting incorrect information; only the boys need to stay at home, we don't need to isolate, mainly because automaticall isolating entire families would rapidly cause panic and make every company in the region gum up. It also means we can still do the shopping.

And they only test people _who actually have symptoms_. Not everyone in the class or family.

We didn't need to go to the test centre, or call the doctor to fit us in between the emergency cases in the middle of the night, and we could have avoided three hours of phone calls yesterday morning.

Germany is very good at systems, but not so good when a system goes "boink". It took one person to send out an incorrect email yesterday to mess things up locally.

I dread to think how swamped the test centres were yesterday...


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

derrick said:


> He has not replied.


I'm now in self isolation. Nothing new, as i live on my own,so it's normal for me!


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## vickster (13 Mar 2020)

tom73 said:


> 150F you'd be dead.


Not as dead as if 150C


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Any of you remember the last time we had such a virus? I'm talking 'bout the 'Cyrus virus' of course! 

Check out that mullet!!!


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## Stephenite (13 Mar 2020)

I was sent home from work the other day for having cold/flu-like symptoms. So that's a week and five days sick leave from the point I first began to feel crook. I have symptoms which potentially fit but I dont fulfill the criteria to warrant testing - whatever they may be. Personally, it's both good and bad as the schools are out for the foreseeable (the good bit)- on the other hand I'm going through a round of interviews for a management role (the bad bit).

Online schooling starts Monday! I must admit I'm impressed with the Norwegians setting this up so quickly. I just hope the internet holds up.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Mar 2020)

Peak Internet traffic is up 10% across world and is up 30% in Italy. The Internet backbone will do just fine, plenty of spare capacity.


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## Grant Fondo (13 Mar 2020)

Sorry to repeat myself from another thread, but so far clear of Corona Virus, but had Swine Flu for about a weeeeeek!


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## Poacher (13 Mar 2020)

Grant Fondo said:


> Sorry to repeat myself from another thread, but so far clear of Corona Virus, but had Swine Flu for about a weeeeeek!


If you come out in a rasher, be sure to rub some oinkment on it.


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## screenman (13 Mar 2020)

My best mate is stuck on an island in the Maldives after somebody brought the virus there.


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## Salty seadog (13 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Never!!! The Nugget will always get through....



Steve Davis through to the Embassy world final?


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## vickster (13 Mar 2020)

screenman said:


> My best mate is stuck on an island in the Maldives after somebody brought the virus there.


You make that sound like a bad thing? Presumably it's hot and sunny there


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## welsh dragon (13 Mar 2020)

In the unlikely event that one of us (Mr WD) gets it, I will of course do my wifely duty and ensure that he has a hot water bottle and a sleeping bag to keep him warm while he is sequestered in his shed.


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## Joey Shabadoo (13 Mar 2020)

I'm very conscious my wife is at risk to this. She has emphysema and damaged lungs from previous bouts of pneumonia. I'm cancelling plans to do training sessions in factories next week (in small rooms with up to 100 people  ) . As a travelling sales bod I'm going to have to limit the "travelling" bit.


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## screenman (13 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> You make that sound like a bad thing? Presumably it's hot and sunny there



It is and they are having a great time, they are starting to move people off today.


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## winjim (13 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I'm very conscious my wife is at risk to this. She has emphysema and damaged lungs from previous bouts of pneumonia. I'm cancelling plans to do training sessions in factories next week (in small rooms with up to 100 people  ) . As a travelling sales bod I'm going to have to limit the "travelling" bit.


Yikes, I hope things go ok for her. Workwise we've had a workshop postponed that was due to be held in April and as a family we've decided to 'socially distance' ourselves as much as possible. Probably going to take the 4yo out of school and just have no unneccessary contact with anyone. I'll still have to go to work unless and until PHE decide to shut us down but apart from we're going to avoid busy places and keep ourselves to ourselves.

To be honest, self isolation is pretty much just every day life for the autistic.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Now sleeping in the spare bedroom as I have cold symptoms. No fever or cough yet but not risking it as my wife has asthma.


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## Julia9054 (13 Mar 2020)

I was feeling a bit asthmatic this morning - fairly standard as I had a very mild cold at the weekend.
I took my temperature like the ridiculous social media fuelled hypochondriac that I am! Completely normal obviously as I am not ill.
Gave myself a bit of a talking to and cycled to work as normal.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Self isolation is ok. Yes,we're 'sociable creatures',but I suppose interaction via the internet,text messages etc is a decent substitute for not having human contact.


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## Stephenite (13 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Self isolation is ok. Yes,we're 'sociable creatures',but I suppose interaction via the internet,text messages etc is a decent substitute for not having human contact.


It's becoming like that, yes.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Mar 2020)

Stephenite said:


> It's becoming like that, yes.


I should've said physical human contact,but you know what i mean.


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## CanucksTraveller (14 Mar 2020)

Wifey has had chest pain, cough, and fever for 3 days, I'm just waiting to see how this tight chest of mine now develops. I'm stocked up on food for about a week, but I have an 8 year old to think about too. "Challenging times ahead" seems apt.


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## steve292 (14 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm now in self isolation. Nothing new, as i live on my own,so it's normal for me!


All joking aside, good luck, drink loads and use paracetamol seems to be the advice if you develop symptoms


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## Accy cyclist (14 Mar 2020)

I've just received a text message from a fellow gym/leisure centre member. The sauna and steam rooms were open last night. Are the managers thick,or just putting profit before the health of their members?!


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## winjim (14 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've just received a text message from a fellow gym/leisure centre member. The sauna and steam rooms were open last night. Are the managers thick,or just putting profit before the health of their members?!


We're lacking clear guidance and leadership, and there's as yet no system of compensation for lost business if they have to close. I mean public health policy appears to be decided by the Premier League at this point.


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## Accy cyclist (14 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> there's as yet no system of compensation for lost business if they have to close.


The leisure centre is/was? council run,but it's recently been tendered out to a 'charitable not exactly profit making,but break even financially organisation',so i've been told. Yes,keep the gym and swimming pool open for now,but 15 people at a time discharging body particles in 35C heat and humidity!!!


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## raleighnut (14 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Peak Internet traffic is up 10% across world and is *up 30% in Italy*. The Internet backbone will do just fine, plenty of spare capacity.


That'd be the pornhub offer kicking in.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I'm very conscious my wife is at risk to this. She has emphysema and damaged lungs from previous bouts of pneumonia. I'm cancelling plans to do training sessions in factories next week (in small rooms with up to 100 people  ) . As a travelling sales bod I'm going to have to limit the "travelling" bit.


I’m effectively grounded. None of my customers are allowing visitors unless an emergency/business critical. There’s no official announcement but I reckon HQ in Ireland is a no-go too, so can’t go and play in the lab. Time to sort the home office, catch-up on much needed rest and ride my bike....


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## Pale Rider (14 Mar 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I took my temperature like the ridiculous social media fuelled hypochondriac that I am



Seems to me taking your temperature is very wise.

It's all but impossible to distinguish a regular cough/cold/sniffles from the virus, but if that is coupled with a rise in temperature it gives you reasonable cause for concern that you do have the virus.

Percentages are still massively in favour of you and most others who may catch it.

The chances of catching it may be moving to quite or very likely, but of those people only a tiny handful will suffer significant health problems or death.

Even more so if you are not elderly - under 60 for this purpose - and have no underlying serious health problems.


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## Julia9054 (14 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> and have no underlying serious health problems


I have quite severe asthma that is very well controlled by drugs to the extent that it places no restrictions on my life (apart from the side effect of an alarmingly fast resting heart rate!)
Am otherwise fit and healthy. Not sure how much additional risk this puts me at if/when I catch coronavirus. 
I had flu once a few years ago (despite my annual jab). That felt like I was dying!


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## Pale Rider (14 Mar 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I had flu once a few years ago (despite my annual jab). That felt like I was dying!



Another interesting point - real flu is very unpleasant.

I've said a few time over the years 'I have flu', but in reality have probably never had it.

Regrettably, what I do now have is what would be characterised for corona purposes as a 'serious underlying health issue'.

I'm also alarmingly close to the age cut off point for 'elderly'.

Time to make that will I've never got around to.


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## marinyork (14 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Seems to me taking your temperature is very wise.
> 
> It's all but impossible to distinguish a regular cough/cold/sniffles from the virus, but if that is coupled with a rise in temperature it gives you reasonable cause for concern that you do have the virus.



Potentially very wise. A lot of stuff the last few days coming out that the most infectious period may be the first few days of non-symptoms. Wonder if the temperature goes up a bit a day or two before it becomes a lot more obvious?

Swine flu, which just about everyone under 25 caught in 2009-10 was horrid. The interesting thing about swine flu at the time is they were using tamiflu that they thought worked, but also it later transpired that all the endless flu jabs in the western world may have given substantial protection to those over 60 so what might have been a fairly nasty epidemic like this wasn't anywhere near so bad. Not the case this time.


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## C R (14 Mar 2020)

@fossyant regarding your T1 diabetic son, this may give you some comfort

https://www.jdrf.org/coronavirus/

TL;DR summary, for an otherwise healthy and well controlled T1, coronavirus should not pose any more risk than any other infection. Usual sick days rules apply in case of catching it.


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## marinyork (14 Mar 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I have quite severe asthma that is very well controlled by drugs to the extent that it places no restrictions on my life (apart from the side effect of an alarmingly fast resting heart rate!)
> Am otherwise fit and healthy. Not sure how much additional risk this puts me at if/when I catch coronavirus.
> I had flu once a few years ago (despite my annual jab). That felt like I was dying!



How controlled it is does matter a lot, as was hinted on another thread there is a tiny (but worryingly large enough) minority of patients whose asthma is very badly controlled and likely underdiagnosed and they don't really know or don't care. A much larger group it's not controlled as well as it could be. Aside from that it depends which drugs, a lot of steroids weaken the immune system, these can be used in varying doses for allergies or for other things like Crohn's or even MS patients who take them.


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## winjim (14 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Swine flu, which just about everyone under 25 caught in 2009-10 was horrid. The interesting thing about swine flu at the time is they were using tamiflu that they thought worked, but also it later transpired that all the endless flu jabs in the western world may have given substantial protection to those over 60 so what might have been a fairly nasty epidemic like this wasn't anywhere near so bad. Not the case this time.


From what I understand it's because there was an outbreak of a similar strain of virus some time in the first part of the last century, so people exposed at that time had acquired immunity.


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## MontyVeda (14 Mar 2020)

Due to my poor lifestyle choices, I've had a persistent cough for about 8 months now... I don't half get some rancid looks from customers when i break into a cough at work  I'm toying with hanging a sign around my neck stating "Don't Panic. This is my normal cough"


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## marinyork (14 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> From what I understand it's because there was an outbreak of a similar strain of virus some time in the first part of the last century, so people exposed at that time had acquired immunity.



That's what people said at the time, flu pandemics are relatively common, more recently been the stuff I said, which is interesting, but not read up on it much. It's interesting whichever way it is.


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## Pale Rider (14 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Due to my poor lifestyle choices, I've had a persistent cough for about 8 months now... I don't half get some rancid looks from customers when i break into a cough at work  I'm toying with hanging a sign around my neck stating "Don't Panic. This is my normal cough"



I was in a waiting area a couple of weeks ago.

A woman was about to take a seat in my row, but I coughed just as she approached.

No doubt in my mind that caused her to divert to a different row.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Mar 2020)

An elderly wheelchair-bound regular in the Restaurant where one of my daughters work has died of Coronvirus. :-/


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## oldwheels (14 Mar 2020)

My projected cycling trip next week has been knocked on the head as my mainland accommodation is in lockdown because one of the kids has what is probably a cold. I was told to stay away. This was in conjunction with a hearing test at Oban hospital which has not yet been cancelled but since my emergency accommodation is now closed off I think I will cancel the appointment. In any case travelling on a ferry may not be a good idea as I am in a high risk group. Cal Mac may eventually give me back £10.70 of my ferry fare.


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## Stephenite (14 Mar 2020)

I think you'd be better off, as you say, staying at home. I'm not sure where you are. Are there any reported cases there?


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## Dave7 (14 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Self isolation is ok. Yes,we're 'sociable creatures',but I suppose interaction via the internet,text messages etc is a decent substitute for not having human contact.


Just make sure you clean your hands before you type. I am allergic to Lancashire.


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## Dave7 (14 Mar 2020)

Like a lot of people me and MrsD got the lurgy just before Christmas and it just would not go away. We are still 'chesty' and aged 73 it does concern me. To use the phrase.....I would like to go quickly with a young blond but for some reason doubt that will happen . I really don't want this virus but..... .
Might have said this before (dosing up on 60 proof alcohol affects the memory) but I got real flue 1982ish. I was delirious and bed ridden for 3 weeks. At first the Doc' diagnosed it as Meningitis. I was off work for over 2 months.
And don't forget I was a very fit 35 year old back then. If it gets you bad then it really gets you.


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## MontyVeda (14 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Due to my poor lifestyle choices, I've had a persistent cough for about 8 months now... I don't half get some rancid looks from customers when i break into a cough at work  I'm toying with hanging a sign around my neck stating "Don't Panic. This is my normal cough"


@raleighnut ...you might want to change that 🤗 smilie to a thumbs up... safe distance and all that


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## lazybloke (14 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Take a 25mm cube of frozen distilled water with a mass of 15g. Tilt your head back until you can't see the internet and balance the cube on your forehead. During fusion, temperature of the ice and thus temperature difference remains constant, 37 ºC - 0 ºC. So heat rate is constant, if you assume a constant heat transfer coefficient h. Therefore, total energy transferred is equal to 0.0015 kg times enthalpy of fusion (J/kg) of water equal to h (W/m2.K) times superficial area A of the ice mass times temperature difference (37 ºC = 37 K) times time t. From this, you get time t. For the mass of 0.0015 kg you get the volume V with density of ice at 0 ºC (slightly less than 1,000 kg/m3). The question is then what it is the area A, which in our case is 375mm squared. I have taken a typical value of heat transfer to ambient by natural convection and thermal radiation h = 10 W/m2K which means the ice cube should melt completely in 76 minutes and 33 seconds assuming you stay perfectly still and facing away from the internet. If it melts quicker than this, your temperature is elevated.
> 
> Get back to us and let us know how you get on.


You've just destroyed my life-long love of physics


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## oldwheels (14 Mar 2020)

Stephenite said:


> I think you'd be better off, as you say, staying at home. I'm not sure where you are. Are there any reported cases there?


None so far. Nearest heard of is about 100 miles away.


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## byegad (14 Mar 2020)

My elder son has been sent home on Friday, as has the rest of his firm. They're working from home until further notice. Nobody in his office knowingly has the disease, but the Norwegian owners closed head office last week and have now rolled it over to the UK side.
Meanwhile, we* are making ourselves as aloof** as we can from human contact for the duration.


*68 and 70 yrs old, both with different health issues that could prove tricky. My wife is additionally lately home from hospital following a brain abscess operation and is just recovering from antibiotic induced anaemia!

** We constantly hear about being alert, because the country needs lerts.
But we feel we're Stutes and Wares so decided to become Loofs.


Good luck everyone, keep safe and try to keep ahead of events, because we also need heads.


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## oldfatfool (14 Mar 2020)

If only they had called it chinese bat flu instead of covid-19 there would have been none of this worldwide panic.


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## winjim (14 Mar 2020)

Oh goody. My line manager, who I share an office with, is self isolating...


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## Smokin Joe (14 Mar 2020)

I got a bus pass a few years ago and have been using it as being semi retired I have plenty of time to travel into town. It is now back to the car till at least the worst has passed.


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## oldfatfool (14 Mar 2020)

I am getting really worried about this now, some muppet on another forum as posted a sky news report saying that 32 million will get the virus and 8m will need hospitalization, this is of course sky reporting what would NEED to occur for our population to aquire herd immunization in response to the gvmnt. Shame herd immunization doesnt work for stupidity, by now we should have an average iq of 150


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## C R (14 Mar 2020)

lazybloke said:


> You've just destroyed my life-long love of physics


Funny, it reinforced mine!


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## Toshiba Boy (14 Mar 2020)

From next week myself and half of our office team working from home for the foreseeable. Other half in the office, purely practical business continuity reasons. Be strange though, first time I will have worked from home for anything more than the odd day here and there in 38 years.


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## Cycleops (14 Mar 2020)

Don't worry folks these Hindus in India claim they have the answer:
gulfnews.com/world/asia/india/special-offer-hindu-group-offers-cow-urine-in-a-bid-to-ward-off-coronavirus-1.1584180650468
One word of warning, don't drink too much as you might get dung over.


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## HMS_Dave (14 Mar 2020)

Ive changed the vote to knowing someone diagnosed with it. He hasn't officially been diagnosed but he is told to stay away from doctors and to stay at home in isolation as his symptoms tally up with Covid-19. I spoke to him on the phone last night and his hacking dry cough sounded truly awful. He also has a fever and other milder symptoms. I very much doubt he is part of the nationwide figure of confirmed cases as they only include actual tested cases of people who end up in hospital. Way to artificially lower the figures eh?


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## GM (14 Mar 2020)

I'm a bit concerned. Our 2 sprogs are in Barcelona at the moment and due to fly home next Tuesday, they are panicking that they won't get locked in


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## Rocky (14 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I'm a bit concerned. Our 2 sprogs are in Barcelona at the moment and due to fly home next Tuesday, they are panicking that they won't get locked in


I hope they get back OK, GM


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## tyred (14 Mar 2020)

A lot of restrictions have been applied here with schools closed, sporting events, concerts, theatres, church services etc cancelled or very restricted. My place of work has been experimenting with people working at home but as I don't have a proper internet connection and just use my mobile data, I am one one of the very few going to the office as usual (only 3 out of my team of 29). One of the very few others who doesn't have home internet is my immediate superior so I can't even doss about! It is good though, the less people coming into the office, the less chance of the infection spreading if anyone should be unfortunate enough to catch it. If the office ends up being forced to close, I have no idea what that will mean for my income or job.

I normally attend dance classes and social events quite a bit but as of last week have decided to stop doing that for the time being (most things are cancelled anyway). I also tend to go to a lot of other things around town like gigs, open mic nights, writers groups... I have decided not to do that even if the events are still running. I'm going to sit it out. I am fortunate enough to be relatively young, fit and strong, I should survive the infection but don't want to catch it and potentially spread it to others which is why I have decided to try and avoid social nights, etc.

I went home to my parents today and picked up a load of books and CDs that I had in storage there to pass the time in the evenings. It was a strange feeling driving back tonight as there was barely another car on the road and the town was deserted - very odd for a Saturday night. Clearly people are mostly taking the government advice to avoid public meetings.

My Dad has a rare form of cystic fibrosis and has always had a bad chest and very prone to infections, I have an uncle who was recently diagnosed with COPD, a friend who is suffering from cancer and receiving chemo at the moment, my hospital consultant friend is worried about her patients who are waiting for kidney transplants...for so many people this has the potential to be very serious and probably fatal


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## Slick (14 Mar 2020)

tyred said:


> A lot of restrictions have been applied here with schools closed, sporting events, concerts, theatres, church services etc cancelled or very restricted. My place of work has been experimenting with people working at home but as I don't have a proper internet connection and just use my mobile data, I am one one of the very few going to the office as usual (only 3 out of my team of 29). One of the very few others who doesn't have home internet is my immediate superior so I can't even doss about! It is good though, the less people coming into the office, the less chance of the infection spreading if anyone should be unfortunate enough to catch it. If the office ends up being forced to close, I have no idea what that will mean for my income or job.
> 
> I normally attend dance classes and social events quite a bit but as of last week have decided to stop doing that for the time being (most things are cancelled anyway). I also tend to go to a lot of other things around town like gigs, open mic nights, writers groups... I have decided not to do that even if the events are still running. I'm going to sit it out. I am fortunate enough to be relatively young, fit and strong, I should survive the infection but don't want to catch it and potentially spread it to others which is why I have decided to try and avoid social nights, etc.
> 
> ...


It will be interesting to see who has got their tactics right with our schools still open and the government coming under fire for that decision. I kinda get where they are coming from but also know from experience, if you wait for someone to get it, everyone will get it before they close the place. The proverbial no win situation.


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## tyred (14 Mar 2020)

Slick said:


> It will be interesting to see who has got their tactics right with our schools still open and the government coming under fire for that decision. I kinda get where they are coming from but also know from experience, if you wait for someone to get it, everyone will get it before they close the place. The proverbial no win situation.



If the infection is spread from personal contact, it would seem logical to me to restrict social gatherings, etc and I fully support what our government is doing (and I would have went further if I'm honest. We are told that the army are prepared and ready to be deployed but to do what hasn't been specified) but I am just a layman, I'd imagine all governments have a team of experts advising them on what to do in this situation and obviously experts will have different opinions. I'm sure governments are also wary of the economic damage that will result from shutting a country down.


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## Slick (14 Mar 2020)

tyred said:


> If the infection is spread from personal contact, it would seem logical to me to restrict social gatherings, etc and I fully support what our government is doing (and I would have went further if I'm honest. We are told that the army are prepared and ready to be deployed but to do what hasn't been specified) but I am just a layman, I'd imagine all governments have a team of experts advising them on what to do in this situation and obviously experts will have different opinions. I'm sure governments are also wary of the economic damage that will result from shutting a country down.


If our government is to be believed, you have shut down a bit early. I've listened to both sides of the argument but like you am just a layman so just waiting to see who is right and who is wron g


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## tyred (14 Mar 2020)

Oh and I actually watched news on TV at my parents house and was shocked to see an appeal for people not to dial 999 and ask for medical advice and discuss coughs and sore throats and to leave it for genuine medical emergencies. Are people really that stupid?


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## DCLane (15 Mar 2020)

tyred said:


> Oh and I actually watched news on TV at my parents house and was shocked to see an appeal for people not to dial 999 and ask for medical advice and discuss coughs and sore throats and to leave it for genuine medical emergencies. Are people really that stupid?



No. They're that stupid AND self-centred.


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## Accy cyclist (15 Mar 2020)

Someone taking self protection while shopping yesterday a little too far i'd say.


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## slowmotion (15 Mar 2020)

After an afternoon in the woods with a compass and crumbling map, I finally managed to locate and dig up the crate of IZAL Medicated that I buried before The Miners' Strike.


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## raleighnut (15 Mar 2020)

The locusts seem to have descended on our local Co-op, nae bog roll on the shelves.


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## PaulSB (15 Mar 2020)

A friend's sister has Covid-19.
Her sister, brother and parents are self-isolating. My friend is doing the food drops.

I'm retired and feel this makes avoiding infection easier. We have stopped being in crowded situations. For example I've suspended the card playing group I run. When I go to a cycle cafe I wash hands, wipe down the table surface, cutlery etc.

I wake very early and our local Tesco is open 24 hours. Yesterday we decided I would shop at perhaps 5-6.00am.

Yesterday I had to visit four different shops and on leaving each, and before getting back in the car, I hand sanitised. When we run out of gel I'm going to put a soap dispenser full of soapy water in the car boot along with a towel.

I'm far from blase about this but don't feel any need to buy more of anything. Sensible behaviour changes do make sense though.


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2020)

Morrisons was busy when I was in yesterday lunchtime, but it would usually be busy at that time.

Forgot to check the toilet roll, but no other signs of panic buying - plenty of stuff on the shelves I visited.

There might, possibly, have been a few more heavily laden trolleys than usual.

Called into the local bike shop on the way back.

They have had their first virus inspired customer.

A guy who had been using a gym since January as part of a get fit campaign said the virus had made him think doing that was no longer a good idea, so he wanted a bike instead.

The owner of the shop was pleased because the guy spent a nice few quid on a hybrid which had been hanging around in stock for a while.

A handful of other customers came and went while I was in, which is about normal for later on a Saturday afternoon.


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## Dave7 (15 Mar 2020)

In the 70s we had the coal shortage.
We actually caught one of our neighbours stealing coal from our shed......greedy barsteward.
I think an extra padlock on the bog roll might be called for


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> In the 70s we had the coal shortage.
> We actually caught one of our neighbours stealing coal from our shed......greedy barsteward.
> I think an extra padlock on the bog roll might be called for



Panic buying is stupid, ignorant, and selfish.

I am genuinely curious as to why those that choose to do it pick toilet roll.

I suppose they also get other stuff, but if I was panic buying, toilet roll would not be on my list given that I would be confident of still having access to soap and running water.

Perhaps it's also a method of gaining access to cheap tissue for nose blowing purposes.

Or more likely I'm wasting my time trying to apply rational thinking to an irrational act.


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## Kryton521 (15 Mar 2020)

Yesterday evening I really felt awful. Having spent most of the day in bedd sleeping, absolutely shattered for seeming no reason at all. High temperature, sore throat etc. Shoved a load of ginger down, with 7 up since I don't have any lemons, [shops have run out?] same again this morning with the ginger, throat still a little rough but otherwise I feel fine???
Going for a bike ride later, alone, so self isolated.


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2020)

Kryton521 said:


> Yesterday evening I really felt awful. Having spent most of the day in bedd sleeping, absolutely shattered for seeming no reason at all. High temperature, sore throat etc. Shoved a load of ginger down, with 7 up since I don't have any lemons, [shops have run out?] same again this morning with the ginger, throat still a little rough but otherwise I feel fine???
> Going for a bike ride later, alone, so self isolated.



I'm not qualified to give medical advice, but while your symptoms are worrying, I understand a high temperature should exist for several days if the person has the virus.

Sensible thing to do is to keep checking it.

Not sure what you should do if it's still high in a few days time, maybe dial the helpline.


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## cookiemonster (15 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> No. They're that stupid AND self-centred.



KFC, chicken. people in tears. Remember, people are that thick.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Not sure what you should do if it's still high in a few days time, maybe dial the helpline



Advice is now not to phone help line unless you cannot cope with symptoms at home and believe you need hospitalization, as I understand it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Someone taking self protection while shopping yesterday a little too far i'd say.
> 
> View attachment 508458
> 
> View attachment 508459


Are they going to handle and cook it dressed like that as well? Remember the packs will have been touched by hundreds of shoppers.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (15 Mar 2020)

tyred said:


> Are people really that stupid?


More stupid than you can imagine unfortunately.


----------



## Mugshot (15 Mar 2020)

View: https://twitter.com/cjjohnsonjr/status/1238868541689880576?s=20


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (15 Mar 2020)

Just had the email from work ordering us off the road and to work from home for now.


----------



## DCLane (15 Mar 2020)

Rode a TT today in Yorkshire. Things looked no different to normal there. Maybe because they're fairly sensible and healthy people taking part? 

Rode (badly), had tea & cake, chatted. Son no. 2 won £20 as 1st Junior/Juvenile male.


----------



## MontyVeda (15 Mar 2020)

raleighnut said:


> The locusts seem to have descended on our local Co-op, nae bog roll on the shelves.


Maybe 6.02am is a tad early... I'm not getting the bog roll restocked until at least quarter past.


----------



## Slick (15 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just had the email from work ordering us off the road and to work from home for now.


I reckon we will have another week before we get the shout.


----------



## oldwheels (16 Mar 2020)

There is a suspected case reported on Mull about 10 miles from me and the person is self isolating. A local taxi has announced on Facebook that he is off the road and self isolating. I chatted to him last Thursday so I am probably doomed.
The reactions of potential tourists is interesting when they ask about coming in the next week or two from areas where there are numerous suspected or confirmed cases. Some people are telling them to stay at home and their reaction is very stroppy.” I will certainly never ever come near your island again and spend the fortunes I always bring with me “seems to be a common reaction to a perfectly civil suggestion.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> There is a suspected case reported on Mull about 10 miles from me and the person is self isolating. A local taxi has announced on Facebook that he is off the road and self isolating. I chatted to him last Thursday so I am probably doomed.
> The reactions of potential tourists is interesting when they ask about coming in the next week or two from areas where there are numerous suspected or confirmed cases. Some people are telling them to stay at home and their reaction is very stroppy.” I will certainly never ever come near your island again and spend the fortunes I always bring with me “seems to be a common reaction to a perfectly civil suggestion.



Some idiots about.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

A colleague has had her tiny bottle of hand sanitiser stolen - really ?

Office very empty as those staff without laptops are testing connectivity on their own devices this morning - so there is just 5 of us in out of over 20.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> There is a suspected case reported on Mull about 10 miles from me and the person is self isolating. A local taxi has announced on Facebook that he is off the road and self isolating. I chatted to him last Thursday so I am probably doomed.
> The reactions of potential tourists is interesting when they ask about coming in the next week or two from areas where there are numerous suspected or confirmed cases. Some people are telling them to stay at home and their reaction is very stroppy.” I will certainly never ever come near your island again and spend the fortunes I always bring with me “seems to be a common reaction to a perfectly civil suggestion.



Makes me want to come and spendlots of money there. Unfortunately I don't currently have any money, and we're surrounded by confirmed cases so I probably shouldn't come, but still...


----------



## Levo-Lon (16 Mar 2020)

Work has upped the ante..
No visitors, bar a single family member, and only after staff interaction to check all's ok, how they will know ?
No access to anyone other than staff and health care workers.


----------



## Pale Rider (16 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> There is a suspected case reported on Mull about 10 miles from me and the person is self isolating. A local taxi has announced on Facebook that he is off the road and self isolating. I chatted to him last Thursday so I am probably doomed.
> The reactions of potential tourists is interesting when they ask about coming in the next week or two from areas where there are numerous suspected or confirmed cases. Some people are telling them to stay at home and their reaction is very stroppy.” I will certainly never ever come near your island again and spend the fortunes I always bring with me “seems to be a common reaction to a perfectly civil suggestion.



Being a tourist brings with it some social responsibility to the local population, and I do always try to drop a few pounds wherever I go.

But I am not a big spender for the rest of the year, and don't turn into one on holiday.

And I certainly don't think I am doing the locals a favour by visiting their area.

Visiting somewhere is just a cost/benefit transaction like any other in which I try to minimise the former and maximise the latter.


----------



## Mugshot (16 Mar 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Work has upped the ante..
> No visitors, bar a single family member, and only after staff interaction to check all's ok, how they will know ?
> No access to anyone other than staff and health care workers.


The home my wife works in stopped any visitors last week, it's staff and visiting health professionals only now.
I'm a little confused by yours, you say only one visitor but then say no access, are the visitors only allowed in communal areas or something?


----------



## oldwheels (16 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Being a tourist brings with it some social responsibility to the local population, and I do always try to drop a few pounds wherever I go.
> 
> But I am not a big spender for the rest of the year, and don't turn into one on holiday.
> 
> ...


Tourists in general have no social responsibility. Their attitude too often is “ I am a tourist and I will do what I want regardless of your wishes”. We used to have visitors rather than tourists who had your attitude of responsibility. There are still some but swamped by the masses.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Work has upped the ante..
> No visitors, bar a single family member, and only after staff interaction to check all's ok, how they will know ?
> No access to anyone other than staff and health care workers.



MIL's nursing home is no visitors at all.


----------



## cookiemonster (16 Mar 2020)

😂😂😂


----------



## Levo-Lon (16 Mar 2020)

I was outside earlier sweeping the Catkins up, car park gets a bit messy.

Manager turns up ,coat on ect ,he seems to feel the cold.

He remarks are you not cold in your Tshirt?
No I've got a temperature of 38.9..

Paddington state....


----------



## Fab Foodie (16 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> There is a suspected case reported on Mull about 10 miles from me and the person is self isolating. A local taxi has announced on Facebook that he is off the road and self isolating. I chatted to him last Thursday so I am probably doomed.
> The reactions of potential tourists is interesting when they ask about coming in the next week or two from areas where there are numerous suspected or confirmed cases. Some people are telling them to stay at home and their reaction is very stroppy.” I will certainly never ever come near your island again and spend the fortunes I always bring with me “seems to be a common reaction to a perfectly civil suggestion.


Just talking with @Hill Wimp about what will transpire over the next weeks as effectively am grounded. It could be a good opportunity to take some weeks unpaid leave and take the Motorhome away of which the preferred destinations would be Cornwall or Scotland (West Coast/Friends in Outer Hebs). We wouldn't need much local contact except replenishing stops food and beer*, were we go, pubs/restaurants are in short supply (but usually we try to frequent them) but prefer to be alone in the big open spaces. I take your point however about not wanting to be a vector of infection, but contact will be limited.

*In fact we could bring a fortnight's worth of food and beer to be completely isolated without issue, but like many prefer to support the local business where possible....


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

cookiemonster said:


> View attachment 508634
> 
> 😂😂😂



You can tell a lot about countries by what they panic buy.

Dutch: Cannabis cakes
US: Guns
UK: Bog roll


----------



## The Crofted Crest (16 Mar 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> You can tell a lot about countries by what they panic buy.
> 
> Dutch: Cannabis cakes
> US: Guns
> UK: Bog roll



The Dutch government's announcement that all bars, restaurants, gyms, saunas and coffee shops would be shut down also specifically referred to "sex clubs".

At least you can still buy commemorative earrings.


----------



## Pale Rider (16 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Just talking with @Hill Wimp about what will transpire over the next weeks as effectively am grounded. It could be a good opportunity to take some weeks unpaid leave and take the Motorhome away of which the preferred destinations would be Cornwall or Scotland (West Coast/Friends in Outer Hebs). We wouldn't need much local contact except replenishing stops food and beer*, were we go, pubs/restaurants are in short supply (but usually we try to frequent them) but prefer to be alone in the big open spaces. I take your point however about not wanting to be a vector of infection, but contact will be limited.
> 
> *In fact we could bring a fortnight's worth of food and beer to be completely isolated without issue, but like many prefer to support the local business where possible....



Being a responsible tourist is not rocket science, all it takes is a little consideration for the locals.

Which is what you are doing.

I'm also all in favour of spending some money locally, but I agree this might be a time for a little more self sufficiency to limit your contact with the locals.

There will be more visits post-virus when you can loosen the purse strings if you feel the need.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2020)

Thought it might be an idea to get a chest freezer for bread - ha! Try buying one


----------



## oldwheels (16 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Just talking with @Hill Wimp about what will transpire over the next weeks as effectively am grounded. It could be a good opportunity to take some weeks unpaid leave and take the Motorhome away of which the preferred destinations would be Cornwall or Scotland (West Coast/Friends in Outer Hebs). We wouldn't need much local contact except replenishing stops food and beer*, were we go, pubs/restaurants are in short supply (but usually we try to frequent them) but prefer to be alone in the big open spaces. I take your point however about not wanting to be a vector of infection, but contact will be limited.
> 
> *In fact we could bring a fortnight's worth of food and beer to be completely isolated without issue, but like many prefer to support the local business where possible....


One point made on Facebook to someone who considered travelling in a camper van to a small island was that if you got the virus how would you cope for a lengthy period of quarantine if one of you became ill and tested positive. I am aware that you are the type of couple who probably could cope. 
We lived admittedly on a site near Aberdeen for nearly 3 months in a Transit Leisuredrive due to a family illness so it can be done. Prescriptions for medication were posted to a local pharmacy as even fax copies were not acceptable. This was February/March into April.
Good luck anyway.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (16 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Being a responsible tourist is not rocket science



If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.


View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

Apart from the majority of the office trying working at home on personal 'hardware' this morning, everything else has been quiet. Hardly any emails, or phone calls. Feels more like folk have 'downed tools'. Very strange.


----------



## Pale Rider (16 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19




I'm sure we've all seen worse than that mob.

But as a patriot, the behaviour of some British tourists abroad is a recurring source of embarrassment to me.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (16 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I'm sure we've all seen worse than that mob.
> 
> But as a patriot, the behaviour of some British tourists abroad is a recurring source of embarrassment to me.



Sure, they didn’t get out of hand or appear to be physically threatening but the sheer entitlement and disrespect is depressing. Can’t say I’d have any great expectation of them following health guidelines to wash their hands regularly once they’re back here either. Twats.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2020)

I've mentioned it before but my parents have a retirement apartment in Benidorm so I'm out there quite a bit. The behaviour of many Brits is excruciatingly embarrassing. Last year, there was an old guy in a mobility scooter sat at a busy junction with a loudhailer and a pile of leaflets advertising a cafe. "Come and eat at X, great food, none of that Spanish muck". My wife had to stop me going over and smacking him, especially as loads of Brits were stopping to get their photo taken with him. 

Seeing the webcams of Spanish cities just now is heartbreaking.


----------



## Milzy (16 Mar 2020)

Anybody actually know a person who's got it?


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Anybody actually know a person who's got it?



One of my work colleagues has it.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Anybody actually know a person who's got it?



Folk at work 'self isolating' but no-one's been tested.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (16 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Anybody actually know a person who's got it?



One of my bosses has it.


----------



## Mugshot (16 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19



That's bloody disgusting, why can't people film in landscape?!!?


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

Very odd today. Couple of meetings cancelled, and only 10 emails - whilst at home I had over 90 on Friday.

One of the other managers have said to me not to mention anything as she has a few staff with health conditions and some that were getting anxious. My updating them about the Tech company on the same road all working remotely by the end of the week, probably didn't help.


----------



## GM (16 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19





Where's the unlike button!


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

The Crofted Crest said:


> The Dutch government's announcement that all bars, restaurants, gyms, saunas and coffee shops would be shut down also specifically referred to "sex clubs".
> 
> At least you can still buy commemorative earrings.
> 
> View attachment 508638



Oooo. classy.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19




Probably thought the authorities can't have meant _British _people, only foreigners. After all, foreign laws don't apply to us, do they?

As an aside, after seeing what happened in Catalonia, I would not try and annoy Spanish police...


----------



## Pale Rider (16 Mar 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Probably thought the authorities can't have meant _British _people, only foreigners. After all, foreign laws don't apply to us, do they?
> 
> As an aside, after seeing what happened in Catalonia, I would not try and annoy Spanish police...



I thought that.

Their behaviour was probably more out of stupidity than bravery.

Another example of 'beer in, brains out'.


----------



## Dave7 (16 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I've mentioned it before but my parents have a retirement apartment in Benidorm so I'm out there quite a bit. The behaviour of many Brits is excruciatingly embarrassing. Last year, there was an old guy in a mobility scooter sat at a busy junction with a loudhailer and a pile of leaflets advertising a cafe. "Come and eat at X, great food, none of that Spanish muck". My wife had to stop me going over and smacking him, especially as loads of Brits were stopping to get their photo taken with him.
> 
> Seeing the webcams of Spanish cities just now is heartbreaking.


Never seen the point in going to eg Spain and ONLY eating full english breakfast. Yes, we have different tastes but at least try and enjoy the flavours of different foods. 
As for insulting local foods I am with you....he needed a good slap.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Never seen the point in going to eg Spain and ONLY eating full english breakfast. Yes, we have different tastes but at least try and enjoy the flavours of different foods.
> As for insulting local foods I am with you....he needed a good slap.


A favourite of mine is rotos huevos y jamon*, tried to get a couple from Dudley to give it a go last year "No, no, you're alright. Foreign spicy food doesn't agree with us"


* basically ham, egg and chips.


----------



## Fab Foodie (16 Mar 2020)

We've cleared all non R&D people out of our head-office/Tech Centre building, with dedicated entry and exit points for each team, no access to other departments or blocks/floors. Each R&D team split so that half are in and half are at home at any particular time. Orders are drying-up as our customer's production plants slow-down or switch to producing increased retail products....
Quite what am going to be doing over the next few weeks is anybody's guess. I may ask for some unpaid leave....


----------



## cookiemonster (16 Mar 2020)

Been off work since Jan 23rd. Not due to go back until April 20th and then it’ll be in stages. I don’t think I’ll be teaching any classes until mid-May at the earliest, 4 months.


----------



## BoldonLad (16 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> From what I understand it's because there was an outbreak of a similar strain of virus some time in the first part of the last century, so *people exposed at that time had acquired immunity.*



Is that another way of saying "herd immunity"?, which, various "experts" are telling us doesn't work/exist?


----------



## BoldonLad (16 Mar 2020)

tyred said:


> Oh and I actually watched news on TV at my parents house and was shocked to see an appeal for people not to dial 999 and ask for medical advice and discuss coughs and sore throats and to leave it for genuine medical emergencies.* Are people really that stupid*?



Yes


----------



## vickster (16 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Thought it might be an idea to get a chest freezer for bread - ha! Try buying one


Yep, my brother works for John Lewis - strong trade in these, laptops and computer monitors apparently and unsurprisingly


----------



## winjim (16 Mar 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Is that another way of saying "herd immunity"?, which, various "experts" are telling us doesn't work/exist?


No. Herd immunity requires a certain percentage of the 'herd' to be immune, to avoid the virus spreading to those who aren't. The people we're discussing who acquired individual immunity to this particular strain of flu are simply the lucky ones who survived.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Anybody actually know a person who's got it?



My son's classmate tested positive, no symptoms though.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

I have _very mild_ Asthma, it's unnoticeable until I get a cold and then I have to use an inhaler to help my system keep my lungs free of goop.

I start a new job in a different region on April the 15th. This means travelling there a few times by train, as I don't have an alternative (cycling will take the best part of a week before someone suggests it)

I'll be working with people who have Psychological disabilities and often with learning difficulties, two groups that often have poor hygiene practices.

My employer has no plans to close down because of Covid-19, so I'm assuming that I just go and take my Asthma spray. Because of the Asthma and work I'm generally considered a high enough risk that I get flu shots every year despite being much younger than most people who get those automatically.

I've just written to the doc. asking for advice. I obviously want to start my new job on time, but I don't want to expose myself to unnecessary risk, I just need to know what level of risk that is consoidered to be in my case...


----------



## Archie_tect (16 Mar 2020)

Just been to Texcos for a weekly shop- the place is a mess.... completely empty shelves and boxes everywhere. Empty aisles where the loo roll, pasta, soup, bread, milk, dried milk etc.. should be and no sign of them making any attempt to re-stock them. It's as if they've given up and decided to not bother.
It wasn't that people were attempting to bulk buy, the staff just weren't doing anything except shrug their shoulders and look pathetic.

Went to Sainsburys in frustration, completely different experience with nothing sold out and everyone just getting on with life.

I've always hated the Tesco superstore- especially as an employee told me they had put prices up significantly to cash in when new stock came in/


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

One of the things I'm not so happy about in Germany is that home schooling is technically illegal. I've had lots of lectures from German teachers telling me how such a thing is "unthinkable" and "Ridiculous" and how it's not possible for us to educate children at home.

Now the kids are away from school for at least a fortnight we have just got an email saying they need to go and pick up assignments tomorrow, which are prepared for them and also have associated YouTube videos. Of course it is assumed that we'll help them with all this...

That sounds suspiciously like homeschooling to me...


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (16 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Some idiots about.





glasgowcyclist said:


> Twats





Pale Rider said:


> stupidity



There's a theme here


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2020)

On another forum there's someone who works in a GP practice. Today was chaos apparently, queues out the door of young, fit people who were demanding a flu jab or that "Corana test thing". There was nothing wrong with the vast majority. Some of them wanted tested because "Ma pal was in Rome 3 weeks ago and I share an office with him, so gies the test eh?" There were signs all over the place about only coming in if it was urgent and non-Covid 19 related. They're going to have to close the practice and switch to phone consultations because of the crass ignorance and selfishness of the public in general.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (16 Mar 2020)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> There's a theme here





Joey Shabadoo said:


> crass ignorance


 Yep


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

MIL has blood test's at her GP practice - possibly the second worst place she should be at present, then she want's to shop for Complan at the Pharmacy, the worst place she could possibly go. The Nursing Home staff are taking her. Won't be told.

Mrs F made the mistake of calling her during lunch, winds her up. The home shouldn't be taking her ! MIL said send me money so I can get the taxi and go shopping. One SIL said she feels like she's in prison - she's only been in lockdown 4 days..... and she only goes out once every few weeks.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

On our Boris' super guidance this evening:-

My Uni has stoped all face to face teaching immediately. Anyone in a risk category should work from home, then others may work at home - that looks to be line manager's responsibility. I'll probably work in the office until my wife get's sent home as it will be safer (less likely to catch a bug) if we both travel in the car - if I'm off she'll be on train and tram. My son will be home working by the end of the week, but he is in an 'at risk category' so will play this carefully we don't place him 'at risk'.

Will see what the Uni post tomorrow - just read the update a couple of minutes ago. I think some of the youngsters won't be in tomorrow.


----------



## marinyork (16 Mar 2020)

To my surprise my uni has updated advice for all staff to work at home if possible. Good call.


----------



## PK99 (16 Mar 2020)

D1 is in hospital in Vancouver with a nasty post op infection in her knee following surgery.

Mum would have been on first plane.... but Canada is Closed.


----------



## fossyant (16 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Just been to Texcos for a weekly shop- the place is a mess.... completely empty shelves and boxes everywhere. Empty aisles where the loo roll, pasta, soup, bread, milk, dried milk etc.. should be and no sign of them making any attempt to re-stock them. It's as if they've given up and decided to not bother.
> It wasn't that people were attempting to bulk buy, the staff just weren't doing anything except shrug their shoulders and look pathetic.
> 
> Went to Sainsburys in frustration, completely different experience with nothing sold out and everyone just getting on with life.
> ...



We went to Lidl at the weekend on the way to the caravan, and guess what, it had stock !


----------



## Milzy (16 Mar 2020)

You might laugh at this. Our work place have implemented split breaks. Shop floor and office staff not to mix. We also don't have to line up to clock out anymore. The thing is everyone can still be within 6 metres of each other by been at work. 🤯
Doing their bit to save lives.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Mar 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> My son's classmate tested positive, no symptoms though.



Update: He's now had a negative result as have pretty much all the other class members.


----------



## C R (16 Mar 2020)

Oldest daughter has a friend whose family have been told to self isolate, as mum, dad and one brother have symptoms after father came back from Bahrain. They haven't been tested, so not confirm as covid.

It's a close shave for us, as our discussion was supposed to go to a sleepover at theirs last Friday, but she couldn't.


----------



## Mugshot (16 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If only these "already very drunk British tourists " in Benidorm understood that simple fact. Unbelievable disregard for others and the law.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016?s=19



Sorry for the RT link.


View: https://twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/1239584711346769920?s=20


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Mar 2020)

Been in bed all day with a temperature and sweating absolute buckets. No cough tho, and it seems to be declining already so probably just A virus rather than THE virus. However I think this means I should isolate for 7 days. Office has everyone on home working so if I'm up for it I can go back to working tomorrow.


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Been in bed all day with a temperature and sweating absolute buckets. No cough tho, and it seems to be declining already so probably just A virus rather than THE virus. However I think this means I should isolate for 7 days. Office has everyone on home working so if I'm up for it I can go back to working tomorrow.


If you're lucky it will be a mild dose of the virus which will probably immunise you from anything worse. Fingers crossed your recovery continues.

Funny how Brexit seems no more than a minor inconvenience now, doesn't it? This is a real crisis.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Funny how Brexit seems no more than a minor inconvenience now, doesn't it? This is a real crisis.


Well they're not completely unrelated: supply of food, supply of medicines and staff for the NHS is all quite EU dependent so decisions made in Brexit negotiations could affect our ability to deal with the virus in the longer term.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (16 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Sorry for the RT link.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/1239584711346769920?s=20




Thick as shít in the neck of a bottle. And no doubt proud of it.


----------



## Archie_tect (16 Mar 2020)

I see the benefit of staggering the level of infection in terms of the NHS coping, but everyone will be exposed to the virus eventually- people can't isolate themselves for ever. Fit and healthy people will cope- it's not a war whatever your national Government may suggest; 98+% of the population will be fine and we can protect the infirm and vulnerable by isolating them.


----------



## Mugshot (17 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Funny how Brexit seems no more than a minor inconvenience now, doesn't it? This is a real crisis.


Brexit is certainly on the back burner for now, or at least it should be, although it appears the government are still determined to plough ahead with it. Is Corona a bigger crisis, certainly, but that doesn't mean that Brexit isn't/won't be a crisis itself, it's rather the same argument that flu kills people too so why worry about Corona.
Up to a week or so ago I've seen the same people that have been telling everyone that Brexit predictions were scare mongering saying precisely the same about Corona, they've largely shut up now.


----------



## Dave7 (17 Mar 2020)

Repeating what myself and several others said on the Old farts Retired section. At least 4 but probably more, on that section alone, got what we all called the lurgy back in November/December. We all had very similar symptoms and were bed ridden for days/weeks (totally different parts of the uk). Myself and MrsD got it mid December through to late Feb (still getting the affects).
Indipendantly we all think we could have had C Virus. It may have been recognised first in China but could well have been in other countries before that.
Being selfish I hope thats correct and we have survived it.


----------



## Mugshot (17 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Repeating what myself and several others said on the Old farts Retired section. At least 4 but probably more, on that section alone, got what we all called the lurgy back in November/December. We all had very similar symptoms and were bed ridden for days/weeks (totally different parts of the uk). Myself and MrsD got it mid December through to late Feb (still getting the affects).
> Indipendantly we all think we could have had C Virus. It may have been recognised first in China but could well have been in other countries before that.
> Being selfish I hope thats correct and we have survived it.


It's an interesting one. There was an awful lot of that kind of thing around pre/post Christmas, I include myself in that number that was suffering from an uncontrollable dry cough. As far as I'm aware though there was not a spike in the death rate that would have been expected if the infection had been Corona, so, it seems unlikely that it was.


----------



## perplexed (17 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Brexit is certainly on the back burner for now, or at least it should be, although it appears the government are still determined to plough ahead with it. Is Corona a bigger crisis, certainly, but that doesn't mean that Brexit isn't/won't be a crisis itself, it's rather the same argument that flu kills people too so why worry about Corona.
> Up to a week or so ago I've seen the same people that have been telling everyone that Brexit predictions were scare mongering saying precisely the same about Corona, they've largely shut up now.



With this in mind, I saw recently that the odds of Johnson lasting a full term have been reduced by the bookies - if I see the link I'll post it. Shortages are impacting people in reality rather than in some hypothetical way, so there may well be a considerable shift of attitude towards the antagonistic end of the spectrum regarding Johnson, away from the 'lovable buffoon' persona.


----------



## steve292 (17 Mar 2020)

perplexed said:


> With this in mind, I saw recently that the odds of Johnson lasting a full term have been reduced by the bookies - if I see the link I'll post it. Shortages are impacting people in reality rather than in some hypothetical way, so there may well be a considerable shift of attitude towards the antagonistic end of the spectrum regarding Johnson, away from the 'lovable buffoon' persona.


Silver linings and all that.


----------



## Mugshot (17 Mar 2020)

perplexed said:


> With this in mind, I saw recently that the odds of Johnson lasting a full term have been reduced by the bookies - if I see the link I'll post it. Shortages are impacting people in reality rather than in some hypothetical way, so there may well be a considerable shift of attitude towards the antagonistic end of the spectrum regarding Johnson, away from the 'lovable buffoon' persona.


Brexit was built on the story of British exceptionalism, a story of stiff upper lips and surviving/winning the war and Johnson his government and his useful idiots have been attempting to do the same now. Brexit is insignificant when compared to Corona, but there are indications of what we are likely to experience and clear evidence that we are better off working together rather than attempting to kid ourselves that we're better because we used to be "Great".

Then:


View: https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1238536020825645061?s=20













Now:

_Change course or a quarter of a million people will die in a "catastrophic epidemic" of coronavirus - warnings do not come much starker than that. 
This realisation has happened only in the past few days.
However, it is long after other scientists and the World Health Organization had warned of the risks of not going all-out to stop the virus._

(BBC link)


----------



## GM (17 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I'm a bit concerned. Our 2 sprogs are in Barcelona at the moment and due to fly home next Tuesday, they are panicking that they won't get locked in




I'm relieved that they managed to get on a flight yesterday evening and arrived home early this morning. We're going to be in self isolation now for a couple of weeks. In the end they were glad to get back, they said the place was like a ghost town are quite eerie.


----------



## steveindenmark (17 Mar 2020)

A few days ago the press were slating the Danish Government for being one of the first to close its borders. A few days later half the world has closed its borders. Every day we have politicians from each party, getting behind the government, all standing side by side, in unison. Questions from the press are met head on and nothing is side stepped. This is the plan and everyone in the country is on board with the plan.

To date two 80+ patients with other illnesses have died due to virus.

I was shocked to see that the British government seemed to have done nothing about this crisis when Denmark were taking rapid steps to contain it. I have just read that there have been 55 deaths in UK due to the virus.

That is truly shocking. Its negligent on the part of the government. Sadly I think it will get much worse over there.


----------



## Electric_Andy (17 Mar 2020)

We've just been told that today we will be sent home to work from home (I don't know how long for). My son still went to school this morning. My ex and her partner are self-isolating becasue her partner has a cough (but no other symptoms). Trouble is, he has a disease that means he's vulnerable, so I now have to have my son full time for at least 12 weeks. It should be fine, I just hope I can do all my work properly connected to external wifi at home rather than the hospital intranet. And I hope my son will not miss his mum too much


----------



## Rocky (17 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I'm relieved that they managed to get on a flight yesterday evening and arrived home early this morning. We're going to be in self isolation now for a couple of weeks. In the end they were glad to get back, they said the place was like a ghost town are quite eerie.


I’m glad they are back, safely. My older son has been in Fiji for the last 2.5 years. I think he’ll wait it out before coming back. He’s got plenty of work and is quite isolated so hopefully should be ok.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (17 Mar 2020)

Whoever thought up working from home didn't have a cat.

One of ours is very talkative and joins in every phone call.


----------



## GM (17 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I’m glad they are back, safely. My older son has been in Fiji for the last 2.5 years. I think he’ll wait it out before coming back. He’s got plenty of work and is quite isolated so hopefully should be ok.



Thanks Brucie. I'm glad your son will be ok. Has that put your trip to Fiji on hold for a while?


----------



## Rocky (17 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> Thanks Brucie. I'm glad your son will be ok. Has that put your trip to Fiji on hold for a while?


Yes, hopefully we’ll go at Christmas. We were flying via NZ. Under the current rules we’d need to self isolate for 2 weeks in NZ on the way over and 2 weeks on the way back, which was longer than our planned trip!! I’d have been happy to extend the visit but the Prof has work to do.


----------



## marinyork (17 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I'm relieved that they managed to get on a flight yesterday evening and arrived home early this morning. We're going to be in self isolation now for a couple of weeks. In the end they were glad to get back, they said the place was like a ghost town are quite eerie.



I know much less about Spain, just similar things to what's going on in Italy. That's good, as in Italy during the 3 lockdowns (and leaks before) info was hard to come by and must have been very stressful. I was worried about a huge number of people being stuck/delayed in Italy.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Whoever thought up working from home didn't have a cat.
> 
> One of ours is very talkative and joins in every phone call.



Try 5. This was Little Miss Kyoto wondering what I was doing (6 month old kitten) - note the conservatory window and a 'bit' of wood - that's the ladders to the cat run - they were in and out all day as it was too cold to leave open.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

All a bit weird in work. Anyone with a slight 'risk' has upped and off'ed home (young fit colleagues with asthma etc). Nothing said about those of us with a 'real' at risk person at home yet.


----------



## Andy in Germany (17 Mar 2020)

Just got a response to my query regarding this situation from the doc, which is remarkably fast bearing in mind the workload he must have right now.

Apparently I'm slightly more at risk than most people because I have Asthma, but it isn't impossible to deal with medically.
As long as I'm not showing any symptoms it's a case of "Keep Calm and Carry on" and be _very careful_ to wash my hands at work, so I'll do that.

Appointment to view a possible apartment tomorrow.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

Hmm, there is a bit of 'them and us' mentality at work. Just chatting with one of our cleaners, she's an older lady, and has been on steroids for her asthma for over 30 years, guess who is busy cleaning the place and the young staff have buggered off !


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (17 Mar 2020)

Our office has had a few staff call in saying they have symptoms and are self-isolating.

It's the exact same people who always seem to take time off at the slightest excuse.


----------



## Mo1959 (17 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Our office has had a few staff call in saying they have symptoms and are self-isolating.
> 
> It's the exact same people who always seem to take time off at the slightest excuse.


I was walking with a woman earlier who was off for 7 days as her office said she has a cough, which she has. She is adamant it’s only a cold, and I would agree. You could hear the stuffiness and croaky throat. I had no qualms walking beside her.


----------



## C R (17 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Hmm, there is a bit of 'them and us' mentality at work. Just chatting with one of our cleaners, she's an older lady, and has been on steroids for her asthma for over 30 years, guess who is busy cleaning the place and the young staff have buggered off !


On the other hand, there are fewer people around who might pass covid-19 to her.


----------



## Bazzer (17 Mar 2020)

Child 2 has been told to self isolate. But as she came home from college because she was feeling ill and was then told by a pharmacist linked to the 111 number that she had to self isolate, this had affected Mrs B and myself.
I have my work computer at home, but work stuff is done over a secure VPN. And last night, someone thought it a good idea that a planned change to existing software for the VPN should go ahead, even though home workers were going to increase hugely because of the PM's announcement. The install has, almost inevitably, failed, but the last time I checked, I was number 144 in the queue for help.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Child 2 has been told to self isolate. But as she came home from college because she was feeling ill and was then told by a pharmacist linked to the 111 number that she had to self isolate, this had affected Mrs B and myself.
> I have my work computer at home, but work stuff is done over a secure VPN. And last night, someone thought it a good idea that a planned change to existing software for the VPN should go ahead, even though home workers were going to increase hugely because of the PM's announcement. The install has, almost inevitably, failed, but the last time I checked, I was number 144 in the queue for help.



Oh dear, what a plonker.


----------



## C R (17 Mar 2020)

Our community has asked all staff to work from home until further notice.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

We're still open, Uni of Manchester, next door (physically) has shut.


----------



## C R (17 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> We're still open, Uni of Manchester, next door (physically) has shut.


Our neighbours daughter was back last night, as Nottingham University is shut too.


----------



## PapaZita (17 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Been in bed all day with a temperature and sweating absolute buckets.



i hope you’re continuing to recover. I find myself in a similar position - a couple of days in bed with a fever, and now a slightly irritated throat, but not really what I’d call a cough. Now I’m wondering whether that was it. If so, I think I can count myself lucky. The current advice seems to be that we isolate ourselves for 2 weeks, which will be a bit of a challenge.


----------



## gavroche (17 Mar 2020)

Last November, my wife was very ill with a very painful sore throat, constant shivering and always feeling very cold. It lasted for about 5 days of being very poorly and then took another two weeks to make a full recovery. Coronavirus wasn't diagnosed then but I do wonder if it was already around before Christmas and if she is immuned to it now?


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Our neighbours daughter was back last night, as Nottingham University is shut too.


DD2 in the same boat (Ph.D student at Notts uni), to add insult to injury, she’s just lost her part-time job as the restaurant she works at has closed. :-/. It’s a big blow as both work and Uni is the basis for much of her friendship groups.


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Mar 2020)

S1 has had his gigs cancelled, his Theatre work cancelled and his pub work seriously curtailed...


----------



## C R (17 Mar 2020)

I am guessing that the economic impact is going to be far worse than it would have been in the case of a conventional war, as every day life is going to put on hold to a much larger extent than it would have been during a war.


----------



## fossyant (17 Mar 2020)

Very mixed messages at work. Some teams sent home (and they are student facing) but others (like ourselves who can work remotely) are in. Wife and son are effectively working at home, but the lady that my wife is covering for, is coming home from her 6 month round the world trip - only been gone 6 weeks, so that might be Mrs F's job gone once quaranteen completed. 

I'm going in tomorrow as the building is empty, and I'm off work Thursday, so recon we will all be out by the end of the week.

My son has tested works VPN on his gaming PC, and once logged into work, he's locked out of his PC effectively, so he can't game/message friends. Phew.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Mar 2020)

All and i mean all the tins of peas have been bought by the greedy in my local supermarket! Mushy,processed,garden you name it,they've gone! Not even one fecking tin left!! Loads of baked beans,but no fecking peas ffs!!


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## nickyboy (17 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> Last November, my wife was very ill with a very painful sore throat, constant shivering and always feeling very cold. It lasted for about 5 days of being very poorly and then took another two weeks to make a full recovery. Coronavirus wasn't diagnosed then but I do wonder if it was already around before Christmas and if she is immuned to it now?


It wasn't CV-19. It wasn't present in UK at that time. I got a stinking viral infection in December with similar symptoms to your wife. She still needs to take the normal measures to make sure she doesn't contract CV-19


----------



## raleighnut (17 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> All and i mean all the tins of peas have been bought by the greedy in my local supermarket! Mushy,processed,garden you name it,they've gone! Not even one fecking tin left!! Loads of baked beans,but no fecking peas ffs!!


How can you eat a Fray Bentos pie without Peas.


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## Joey Shabadoo (17 Mar 2020)

raleighnut said:


> How can you eat a Fray Bentos pie without Peas.



Smelt the tin until molten (the tin will boil off at around 230 C but you need to get your kiln up to about 1370 C for the steel. Once molten, slowly pour the liquid steel into a large pail of water from a height of about 1.5m. The molten steel will form balls as it hits the water - adjust your flowrate to get your balls the right size. Fish the steel balls out from the bottom of the pail, paint them green and voila - peas with as much taste and nutritional value as the pie itself.


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## Accy cyclist (18 Mar 2020)

raleighnut said:


> How can you eat a Fray Bentos pie without Peas.


I can live without garden peas,not so much without processed and definitely not without mushy ones!!


----------



## cyberknight (18 Mar 2020)

Sending us all home on full pay till the end of next week


----------



## aferris2 (18 Mar 2020)

Not much change for us travelling around Australia. We're in WA at the moment and not intending to go near any large cities in the near future. We haven't tried the supermarkets for a few days so hope there wil still be stuff on the shelves. Not due to return to the UK until the end of August so hopefully things will have settled down by then.


----------



## PK99 (18 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> So have any CCers been effected so far? (Badly phrased first question, "Yes" means you've definitely got it).
> 
> You can change your vote if necessary.



Mrs PK had dry cough last night.

Now feels achy with temp of 37.8C

Ho hum.


----------



## steve292 (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Smelt the tin until molten (the tin will boil off at around 230 C but you need to get your kiln up to about 1370 C for the steel. Once molten, slowly pour the liquid steel into a large pail of water from a height of about 1.5m. The molten steel will form balls as it hits the water - adjust your flowrate to get your balls the right size. Fish the steel balls out from the bottom of the pail, paint them green and voila - peas with as much taste and nutritional value as the pie itself.


You are a bottomless source of material to me..


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## Spiderweb (18 Mar 2020)

The Germans have been putting their beach towels on hospital beds


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## Joey Shabadoo (18 Mar 2020)

steve292 said:


> You are a bottomless source of material to me..


Would you like to know how to calculate the speed of light using a microwave oven?


----------



## C R (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Would you like to know how to calculate the speed of light using a microwave oven?


Yes please, something fun to do with the children when schools close.


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## Joey Shabadoo (18 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Yes please, something fun to do with the children when schools close.



ok


The speed of light is, as everyone knows, 186,000 miles per second or 299,792km per second. That's pretty fast. However, that's the speed when light travels in a vacuum; in air, it slows down to 299,552km per second which doesn't sound quite as fast. A London bus travelling at the speed of light could travel from London to New York and back twenty five times in one second. But, how could you prove that? And how could you prove that in your kitchen? For this experiment you will need:


A microwave oven
A plate
Some cheese
A cheese grater
A ruler
Please ask an adult to help, as microwave ovens can be dangerous.

Grate enough cheese to cover the plate to a depth of about 5mm. Take the glass turntable and any roller mechanism out of the microwave and put the plate of cheese in. Turn the heat to full power for 20 seconds. When you take the plate out, you will see two lines of melted cheese.

The reason for this is the oven has a microwave emitter in the side which sends out energy as a wave - the same sort of wave as a radio wave or a light wave. This wave is perfectly even and regular. Imagine a line on a graph that curves up to a peak then down to a trough. Where the wave is at its highest and lowest points, it is reinforced by the waves that are bouncing around inside the oven so that two hot spots are created a half-wavelength apart.

Most microwaves have a stationary emitter and the food is revolved on a turntable to rotate it evenly through the hotspots. This is why it is impossible to microwave an ant. If you put an ant into a microwave and watch through the window when you switch it on, you will see the ant scurrying around on the turntable. Whenever the table rotates through a hot spot, the ant simply runs away from the heat to a cooler area. Some microwave ovens have a rotating emitter. The plate in these ovens stands still and the hot spots move. If your microwave doesn't have a turntable, it won't be possible to do this experiment unless you can train some ants to carry the plate on their backs and run at a constant speed in front of the hotspots.

Where the cheese has melted is where the wave was at its highest and lowest spots. Wavelength is the distance between two peaks so by measuring the distance between these two lines of melted cheese we can find half the wavelength.

It may be difficult to find the exact centre of the lines in the melted cheese, but try to be as exact as you can. In the CycleChat kitchen, the distance was found to be 60mm. Multiplying this by 2 gives us the wavelength: in this case, 120mm.

We now know how long the wave was, but we need to know how many waves there are per second. On the back of the oven will be a label that tells you the frequency the oven operates at. On the CycleChat microwave it was 2450MHz, or 2450 million waves per second.

So, 2,450,000,000 cycles per second
120mm = 0.00012km
In 1 second, the wave travels 2,450,000,000 x 0.00012km = 294,000km

This tells us that the speed of light is 294,000km per second: quite close to the actual figure of 299,552km per second, within 2% anyway. When you consider how difficult it was to measure the lines of melted cheese, this is pretty much spot on.

Congratulations. You have just calculated the speed of light in your kitchen1.

Now wash your hands


from https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A32873493 where I wrote it a few years ago


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## steve292 (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Would you like to know how to calculate the speed of light using a microwave oven?


slow day in work?


----------



## C R (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> ok
> 
> 
> The speed of light is, as everyone knows, 186,000 miles per second or 299,792km per second. That's pretty fast. However, that's the speed when light travels in a vacuum; in air, it slows down to 299,552km per second which doesn't sound quite as fast. A London bus travelling at the speed of light could travel from London to New York and back twenty five times in one second. But, how could you prove that? And how could you prove that in your kitchen? For this experiment you will need:
> ...


Brilliant, I can fill a whole day with that and explaining standing waves, thank you.


----------



## newfhouse (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> ok
> 
> 
> The speed of light is, as everyone knows, 186,000 miles per second or 299,792km per second. That's pretty fast. However, that's the speed when light travels in a vacuum; in air, it slows down to 299,552km per second which doesn't sound quite as fast. A London bus travelling at the speed of light could travel from London to New York and back twenty five times in one second. But, how could you prove that? And how could you prove that in your kitchen? For this experiment you will need:
> ...


Genius. Somehow I’m going to use this as the basis of a board question the next time we interview for someone with RF skills.


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> This is why it is impossible to microwave an ant. If you put an ant into a microwave and watch through the window when you switch it on, you will see the ant scurrying around on the turntable. Whenever the table rotates through a hot spot, the ant simply runs away from the heat to a cooler area.



I can see plenty of children skipping the cheese/speed of light part and desperately trying to microwave ants instead.


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## C R (18 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I can see plenty of children skipping the cheese/speed of light part and desperately trying to microwave ants instead.


BTW, did you actually try the ant bit or is it just an assumption of what would happen?


----------



## glasgowcyclist (18 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> BTW, did you actually try the ant bit or is it just an assumption of what would happen?



I think you meant to direct that to @Joey Shabadoo, it’s his experiment.


----------



## DCLane (18 Mar 2020)

Edited for you:



glasgowcyclist said:


> I can see plenty of CC members skipping the cheese/speed of light part and desperately trying to microwave ants instead.


----------



## C R (18 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I think you meant to direct that to @Joey Shabadoo, it’s his experiment.


Yep, sorry, edited now.


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## Joey Shabadoo (18 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> BTW, did you actually try the ant bit or is it just an assumption of what would happen?



I saw it explained in a lecture by Prof Heinz Wolff and took him at his word.


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## DCLane (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I saw it explained in a lecture by Prof Heinz Wolff and took him at his word.



Come here ants ...  *



* Note this is day 2 of my probable 12+ week quarantine. I'm concerned already


----------



## Mo1959 (18 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I can see plenty of children skipping the cheese/speed of light part and desperately trying to microwave ants instead.


Can we put Dec in too?


----------



## pawl (18 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Can we put Dec in too?



You said you can’t cook,I will check the Weight Watchers recipe book and see if there is recipe.


----------



## pawl (18 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Mrs PK had dry cough last night.
> 
> Now feels achy with temp of 37.8C
> 
> Ho hum.



Take care both of you


----------



## All uphill (18 Mar 2020)

No cure for the virus yet, but here is my cure for virus anxiety. Five miles on this and I can feel the grin on my face!


----------



## C R (18 Mar 2020)

Just had an email from Park Run to say that the runs are suspended until at least end of April.


----------



## Spiderweb (18 Mar 2020)

BREAKING NEWS
Russian football player Ivor Cheztikov has just tested positive for the Corona virus 

My jokes are not intended to offend, we have very difficult times ahead I know but sometimes it’s good to lighten the mood a bit


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## Joey Shabadoo (18 Mar 2020)

My sister sent her husband out shopping yesterday with an extensive list. Like me, she loves pasta so wanted the ingredients she needed.

He came back with parmesan, peppercorns, pesto, fresh basil, cream, sieved tomatos, passata, garlic, chilli flakes, olive oil and .... 6 tins of Tesco own brand spaghetti hoops


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## Dave7 (18 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I can live without garden peas,not so much without processed and definitely not without mushy ones!!


I fully agree. Processed just dont give you the same quality of fart as mushy do they?
We enjoy fish butties with mushy peas. I think we have 2 cans left.


----------



## Dave7 (18 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> BTW, did you actually try the ant bit or is it just an assumption of what would happen?


I just tried that.
Well tbh I couldn't find an ant so used next doors cat.
Its not true


----------



## winjim (18 Mar 2020)

Looks like schools are off from next week but fark knows what we're going to do with the kids. I spoke to my boss and she's expecting me to turn up for work, something about hospital labs being quite important at the moment...


----------



## Mo1959 (18 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Looks like schools are off from next week but fark knows what we're going to do with the kids. I spoke to my boss and she's expecting me to turn up for work, something about hospital labs being quite important at the moment...


Maybe your kids will be part of the section Boris has just mentioned? Parents essential to NHS and other critical services can still attend.


----------



## Mugshot (18 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Looks like schools are off from next week but fark knows what we're going to do with the kids. I spoke to my boss and she's expecting me to turn up for work, something about hospital labs being quite important at the moment...


Can't you video conference?


View: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/840263739425341440?s=20


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## winjim (18 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Maybe your kids will be part of the section Boris has just mentioned? Parents essential to NHS and other critical services can still attend.


That's good news, I think we count.


Mugshot said:


> Can't you video conference?
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/840263739425341440?s=20


I like the bit where he shoves her in the face.


----------



## Smokin Joe (18 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Looks like schools are off from next week but fark knows what we're going to do with the kids. I spoke to my boss and she's expecting me to turn up for work, something about hospital labs being quite important at the moment...


My mate's wife is the head teacher at a junior school. Keeping it open was no longer an option because so many staff were self isolating or showing symptoms that were possibly just a mild cold but couldn't take chances. She had to go in at 6am today to open up because the caretaker went sick. One of our paperboys was telling us that his school was also down on staff, same reason as above plus three on long term isolation because they are pregnant.


----------



## gbb (18 Mar 2020)

Tough but right decision made just now, we are self isolating.
I've had a cough and head cold and occasional sneezing for maybe a month now so coughing is making people nervous I should think. Temps are normalish.
My sons just informed us his wife suddenly developed a sharp dry cough and temperature...not terrible but nevertheless...
Shes been sent home immediately.
As soon as my wife, who works in a SEN school told her employers....sent home immediately as we have close and regular contact with them and the grandkids.
My company (food production) has given specific advice and is supportive so rang my boss, book me off for 2 weeks holiday I suggested. His reply... No, take 2 weeks off, I will talk to HR, you are salaried, let them sort it.

I'm not a sicknote, even when I had TB, pneumonia and pleurisy, I only actually had one day off sick then a few days off when I got hives because I was so run down (I did have a week off when I started the TB treatment as well) I generally only call In sick for 1 or 2 days a year.
So calling in now when realistically, someone close has a sore threat, not coronavirus, goes against everything I always did...but morally, it's the right thing to do.

My manager Informed me at the same time...a former colleague at our sister site has just done the same. No questions asked, it's the right thing to do.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (18 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Just had an email from Park Run to say that the runs are suspended until at least end of April.



People are posting on FB “hey I’m going for a run in the park at hh:mm come and join me”. Seems they can’t do it without the comfort blanket of others.


----------



## screenman (18 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Maybe your kids will be part of the section Boris has just mentioned? Parents essential to NHS and other critical services can still attend.



The essential list is pretty long, some teachers are not happy. Now is a teacher with kids essential as they are not in the list I think.


----------



## stephec (18 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> People are posting on FB “hey I’m going for a run in the park at hh:mm come and join me”. Seems they can’t do it without the comfort blanket of others.


I'm in the core gtoup of volunteers at our local parkrun, official statement tells people not to organise runs at the parkrun locations which we've repeated on our Facebook page, but you can only advise, if people want to show their lack of brain cells you can't really stop them.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> I'm in the core gtoup of volunteers at our local parkrun, official statement tells people not to organise runs at the parkrun locations which we've repeated on our Facebook page, but you can only advise, if people want to show their lack of brain cells you can't really stop them.



You can stop them posting in the page as did our local park run FB group. Then they lose the ability to contact other park run people unless already friends on Facebook.


----------



## Fab Foodie (18 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I saw it explained in a lecture by Prof Heinz Wolff and took him at his word.


You can watch it again on ketchup tv...


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## Joey Shabadoo (18 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> You van watch it again on ketchup tv...



groan


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> You van watch it again on ketchup tv...



Channel 57


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## stephec (18 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You can stop them posting in the page as did our local park run FB group. Then they lose the ability to contact other park run people unless already friends on Facebook.


We've already had to delete some comments from people who aren't in agreement with the policy.


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## C R (18 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> We've already had to delete some comments from people who aren't in agreement with the policy.


What's wrong with some people?


----------



## Slioch (18 Mar 2020)

I work for one of the Universities in York. All academic activities were cancelled from today onwards until after Easter.
Support staff (like me) are to work from home from next Monday onwards. Unfortunately my Dept is regarded as being "critical", so we are going to be provided with laptops so that we really will have to work from home. Bugger!


----------



## Accy cyclist (19 Mar 2020)

I'm very pissed off! I shop daily for not even a basket full of items,yet the things i tend to buy aren't there. I buy a banana a day..no bananas. A tin of peas every now and then..no peas. I must be in the minority who used hand gel way way before all this panic buying. Now i'm down to my last bottle of hand sanitiser. I had about 9 or 10 here and there in my flat,in coat pockets etc. I see people in supermarkets with piled up trolleys who have enough blubber on them to survive weeks of the in their minds potential starvation!


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## Fab Foodie (19 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Channel 57


Is it a variety show?


----------



## stephec (19 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> What's wrong with some people?


Apparently it's all a government conspiracy.


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> Apparently it's all a government conspiracy.


We seem to import all the stupid trends from the US very easily.


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

It looks like the first day of dedicated vulnerable shopping time didn't work great at Sainsbury's
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...our-for-vulnerable-people-chaotic-and-crowded
Tesco sent an email last night announcing a similar initiative, but the article above is not encouraging.
As a type 1 diabetic I am more vulnerable than some, so have been pondering about using those slots. However, I am middle aged and healthy looking, so I am sure to be looked upon as taking advantage, and possibly attract unkind comments. Anyone else here in the same situation?


----------



## raleighnut (19 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> It looks like the first day of dedicated vulnerable shopping time didn't work great at Sainsbury's
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...our-for-vulnerable-people-chaotic-and-crowded
> Tesco sent an email last night announcing a similar initiative, but the article above is not encouraging.
> As a type 1 diabetic I am more vulnerable than some, so have been pondering about using those slots. However, I am middle aged and healthy looking, so I am sure to be looked upon as taking advantage, and possibly attract unkind comments. Anyone else here in the same situation?


Yep, but only type 11 at least I'm on Crutches though.


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Yep, but only type 11 at least I'm on Crutches though.


Maybe I can find a walking stick somewhere, to better look the part.


----------



## Mugshot (19 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> It looks like the first day of dedicated vulnerable shopping time didn't work great at Sainsbury's
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...our-for-vulnerable-people-chaotic-and-crowded
> Tesco sent an email last night announcing a similar initiative, but the article above is not encouraging.
> As a type 1 diabetic I am more vulnerable than some, so have been pondering about using those slots. However, I am middle aged and healthy looking, so I am sure to be looked upon as taking advantage, and possibly attract unkind comments. Anyone else here in the same situation?


Kinda, but from a different angle. My wife can't walk very far so is in a wheelchair when we go shopping, this could in theory allow us to rock up for the vulnerable hour, but to be honest, if we did we'd just be taking advantage of what could be someone else's slot, so we're not going to. It's so difficult to police when hidden conditions are involved.


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Kinda, but from a different angle. My wife can't walk very far so is in a wheelchair when we go shopping, this could in theory allow us to rock up for the vulnerable hour, but to be honest, if we did we'd just be taking advantage of what could be someone else's slot, so we're not going to. It's so difficult to police when hidden conditions are involved.


The advantage for me would be if the supermarket was quieter, so that I reduce potential sources of contagion. Seeing as it looks like if anything it was busier, it appears to be counterproductive.


----------



## Mugshot (19 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> The advantage for me would be if the supermarket was quieter, so that I reduce potential sources of contagion. Seeing as it looks like if anything it was busier, it appears to be counterproductive.


It's crossed my mind how people suffering from autism are coping. My daughter is autistic, she would not be able to cope with the supermarkets at the moment, fortunately there is no reason for her to come shopping with us.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (19 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Kinda, but from a different angle. My wife can't walk very far so is in a wheelchair when we go shopping, this could in theory allow us to rock up for the vulnerable hour, but to be honest, if we did we'd just be taking advantage of what could be someone else's slot, so we're not going to. It's so difficult to police when hidden conditions are involved.



We're the same, just continuing with the usual deliveries. There's a few shortages but nothing major.


----------



## MichaelW2 (19 Mar 2020)

With a potential lockdown in Old London Town, people are starting to talk about exceptions for essential workers. Who is an essential worker? Not just doctors, nurses hospital staff, police, ambulance and fire services. Also drivers, shop assistants, warehouse staff, bin men. If you can describe your job in words of less than three syllables, and not use the words Resource, Network, Communication, Chief, then you probably have an essential job.


----------



## pjd57 (19 Mar 2020)

My wife had symptoms over the weekend.
So taking the advice on NHS site we shut ourselves in.
My symptoms followed a day after.
Nothing drastic. Sore throat , temperature fluctuations , slight headache.

Normally if I felt like this I would take paracetamol and get out on my bike for a few hours along the canal and come back feeling better. Staying in just now , but might have a solo trip in a few days.

4 days done. 10 left.


----------



## postman (19 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Maybe I can find a walking stick somewhere, to better look the part.




My wife knows a lot of the staff t our local supermarket,and their early offer,was also plagued with problems,healthy fit wanting to get in with the aged and disabled.We both have diabetes pre and stage 1,i have two hearing aids and only one eye.We were wondering if we could use the early bird offer.


----------



## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

postman said:


> My wife knows a lot of the staff t our local supermarket,and their early offer,was also plagued with problems,healthy fit wanting to get in with the aged and disabled.We both have diabetes pre and stage 1,i have two hearing aids and only one eye.We were wondering if we could use the early bird offer.


It's meaningless. The supermarkets have thought about what the absolute minimum is that they can do, and done just slightly less than that. It's bullshit lip service.

Reminds me of the autism hour...


----------



## marinyork (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> It's meaningless. The supermarkets have thought about what the absolute minimum is that they can do, and done just slightly less than that. It's bullshit lip service.
> 
> Reminds me of the autism hour...



Any better suggestions?


----------



## Bazzer (19 Mar 2020)

We were told to where possible work from home from Tuesday, (but I was anyway because of child 2). I understand from someone who had to attend work today to get around an IT problem, that we are now banned from attending work from tomorrow.


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## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Any better suggestions?


Do nothing, or do something. Don't do nothing and say that you're doing something.


----------



## Rocky (19 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> I still don't know anybody who's got this virus which was made in a Chinese laboratory.


FAKE NEWS


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Do nothing, or do something. Don't do nothing and say that you're doing something.


I think this is getting beyond the point of what supermarkets can handle on their own. Even setting limits on purchases, there's nothing stopping someone from going back in for more.

Some kind of token that limits how much each household can get per week might help, can't think what I would call it, though, .


----------



## marinyork (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Do nothing, or do something. Don't do nothing and say that you're doing something.



They did do something, just you haven't thought through that pensioners or vulnerble people with cars aren't any less determined or less badly behaved than anyone else.

Staffing levels are very low in supermarkets. It means restocking is difficult. Secondly the delivery regs screw things up. Sunday and local delivery licences will need loosening temporarily, in some cases a lot.

It does get worse. Nothing compared to everyone in italy wearing ffp3 masks and queueing for ages to get into a supermarket or online systems crashing.


----------



## Dayvo (19 Mar 2020)

Looks like I'll be having an unexpected extension to my winter migration! 😳 
It will extend well into the spring, if not the summer and (fortunately) it has only broken out in a few areas to date. 

So, back to the beach. 😎


----------



## fossyant (19 Mar 2020)

On a lighter note, I have a whatsapp group with some colleagues/ex colleagues, so it's got busy again as we are working at home and posting pictures. Me and another colleague have issues with the cat's plonking themselves on our laptops. Another new group has been set up for some of the managers from one of my Faculties - this again has descended into pics of home working ! One posted a a very 'swish' pic of their new flat, one a pic from Hebden Bridge, and another said, I'll have to tidy up first !


----------



## Ming the Merciless (19 Mar 2020)

Wife coughing last night but that stopped before morning. No temperature. But each time a cough is more than one or two you begin to think is it starting, is it incubating and multiplying even now?


----------



## fossyant (19 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Wife coughing last night but that stopped before morning. No temperature. But each time a cough is more than one or two you begin to think is it starting?



My wife has had a persistent cough since the winter bug - her's arrived late January, mine was December. Batteries arrived yesterday for the digital in ear temperature gizmo - we found it in a cupboard. Had it since the kids were little, about 19 years.


----------



## Milzy (19 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Wife coughing last night but that stopped before morning. No temperature. But each time a cough is more than one or two you begin to think is it starting is it incubating and multiplying even now?


We have loads of clowns coming into work unwell. People won't get full sick pay so they will spread it all over. That's why maybe the full lock down method could be wiser.


----------



## Mugshot (19 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> It has been done to settle a trade war between China and the West.


@Milzy you're such a cheeky scamp.


----------



## Rocky (19 Mar 2020)

*Quote removed*
More lies


----------



## Milzy (19 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> More lies


I hope so.


----------



## C R (19 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> We have loads of clowns coming into work unwell. People won't get full sick pay so they will spread it all over. That's why maybe the full lock down method could be wiser.


My wife's company are refusing to allow any working from home. On Tuesday one of her colleagues came in with a cough saying his wife had the same. The site manager said, oh it'll be fine, and the colleague stayed for a couple of hours in the office until the same manager came and sent him home. That colleague is now showing all symptoms, and told to self isolate by 111. 

The company is still refusing to allow home working.


----------



## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

Hang on, there's too many Coronathreads, I meant to post in this one. Anyway, poorly baby so it's isolation for us.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/what-are-your-lock-down-plans.258517/post-5918562


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## GM (19 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> It's crossed my mind how people suffering from autism are coping. My daughter is autistic, she would not be able to cope with the supermarkets at the moment, fortunately there is no reason for her to come shopping with us.




I was thinking that. I wonder if Morrison's still do their Autism hour, I don't think I could get up that early though!


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## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I was thinking that. I wonder if Morrison's still do their Autism hour, I don't think I could get up that early though!


At the stroke of 10.30 the klaxon sounds and the shopping centre once again becomes an overstimulating hellscape.


----------



## GM (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> At the stroke of 10.30 the klaxon sounds and the shopping centre once again becomes an overstimulating hellscape.




Reckon I might just be able to make it before 10.30 though.


----------



## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> Reckon I might just be able to make it before 10.30 though.


Saturday morning, wake up, get showered, dressed, breakfast, brush teeth, get to shopping centre, _do all your shopping and be away_ and on the way home by 10.30? And that be your only opportunity in the whole week?

As I said before, it's bullshit lip service. Dim the lights and switch the music off in that first hour of Saturday morning when no bastard wants to do their shopping anyway and you can claim that you're all autism friendly by making seriously minimal farking effort to change anything about your shop that might make it less of an overwhelming and hyperstimulating experience for the other 53 1/2 shopping hours in the week.

But... do you even get an hour? According to the website, this shopping centre doesn't even open til 10. 


So you want a load of confused and potentially very anxious autistics standing around from 9.30 on a Saturday morning who are then expected to _do all their shopping and be out of there and on the way home_ within half an hour? You're forcing an autistic person to make a choice about what clothes to buy in a state of anxiety and under considerable time pressure? They will more than likely leave with nothing, or the wrong thing, and hate the entire experience.

Just make the shops less farking awful in the first place.


----------



## Mugshot (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Saturday morning, wake up, get showered, dressed, breakfast, brush teeth, get to shopping centre, _do all your shopping and be away_ and on the way home by 10.30? And that be your only opportunity in the whole week?
> 
> As I said before, it's bullshit lip service. Dim the lights and switch the music off in that first hour of Saturday morning when no bastard wants to do their shopping anyway and you can claim that you're all autism friendly by making seriously minimal farking effort to change anything about your shop that might make it less of an overwhelming and hyperstimulating experience for the other 53 1/2 shopping hours in the week.
> 
> ...


The Social Model of Disability.


----------



## Bhitucyclist (19 Mar 2020)

Love the poll idea !


----------



## Bhitucyclist (19 Mar 2020)

How to create this voting button ... i want to do the same


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## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

Bhitucyclist said:


> How to create this voting button ... i want to do the same


Post new thread 》scroll down》post a poll.


----------



## Bhitucyclist (19 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Post new thread 》scroll down》post a poll.


Thanks ... i managed to do it ! 😊 great feature


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## winjim (19 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> The Social Model of Disability.


To be fair, the shopping centre in question does have the most accessible bathroom I've ever been in. Two toilets and a changing station means the whole family can go for a poo all together.


----------



## Pale Rider (19 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> I was thinking that. I wonder if Morrison's still do their Autism hour, I don't think I could get up that early though!



Nope, it wasn't very popular because they kept on changing it.


----------



## Slioch (19 Mar 2020)

I think I posted earlier on this thread (hard to keep track - there's so many of them) that a friend has a wedding and evening "do" tomorrow (Friday), to which we've been invited.

We've received confirmation that the "do" is still going ahead, and do you know what, we're going.

Had a bit of a discussion tonight about it with Mrs S, and our main reasons for going are a) to support our friend for whom it is the happiest day in their life etc, and b) because we're both in our 50's and in good health, so we're not in the high risk group.

Irresponsible? Maybe.

Will we live to regret it? Maybe.

Do we feel we're doing the right thing? Yes.

It's a tough call.


----------



## GM (19 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Nope, it wasn't very popular because they kept on changing it.




That's a shame, it does mean I can still have a lie in though!


----------



## Pale Rider (19 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> That's a shame, it does mean I can still have a lie in though!



Sorry, it was an attempt at humour, so if you need to find out best to check with Morrison's directly.

I expect it might be one with local discretion.

If you speak to a manager who happens to be helpful they might come up with an alternative solution.


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)

Have been trying to work out when/where MrsPK picked up the bug.

She says it could have been anywhere, but I beg to differ!

Last Friday evening she went to a WI meeting and as treasurer took cash from all there, brought it home counted and bagged it on Saturday.

Tuesday evening/ weds morning she went down with Covid-19 symptoms.

ALL behaviours involving person to person direct or indirect contact MUST change.


----------



## Accy cyclist (20 Mar 2020)

postman said:


> and only one eye.


I didn't know that Postie. Probably because you haven't mentioned it before on CC,but you know what i mean. Can i ask,have you had the eye removed or is the eye still there but it's 'blind'?


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> It's meaningless. The supermarkets have thought about what the absolute minimum is that they can do, and done just slightly less than that. It's bullshit lip service.
> 
> Reminds me of the autism hour...



I disagree, it was a good idea relying for its effectiveness on the goodwill, honest, integrity, public spirt and simple good will of the Great British Public.

Well, collectively we have failed that test with flying colours.

But given some of the posts on here about ignoring Virus advice, I can't say I am surprised.


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)

I blew my top at the supermarket on Monday. 9am car park already rammed.

Smallish supermarket, smallish car park. As I was driving slowly round, the car in front of me pulled onto the green tarmac walkway area and parked blocking pedestrian access to steps up to road level and making it difficult for pedestrians and drivers to access the far end of the car park.

I managed to manoeuvre around him and parked. As I walked past, I saw in his windscreen a notice "DELIVERING URGENT MEDICAL SUPPLIES. BACK IN 5 MINUTES"

I saw the guy walking to the shop from his car, once in the shop he bought a lottery ticket and started shopping.

I informed him in no uncertain terms that his behaviour was not acceptable, told him to return to, and move, his car. A member of staff observed the altercation and, when i explained, escorted the twunk to his car to move it.

Rant over.


----------



## Accy cyclist (20 Mar 2020)

Being a bit 'OCD' about germs and bacteria long before all this C19 stuff,my 'OCD' has surprisingly calmed down,not got worse, now that everybody else is wiping this and that down with anti-bac stuff. I've been thinking that maybe the body taking in more germs will help you avoid C19. I read this online......

_'Hope this isn’t too convoluted.

Your cells have receptor/s that a virus binds to, provided that the virus has a complementary receptor. Think of a jigsaw puzzle, if you have the complementary receptor, the virus will bind to the cell. The virus uses the cell to reproduce. If two different viruses try to replicate in the same cell at the same time, replication is slowed down'._

Maybe we should be eating our meals off bog seats and licking lamp posts that dogs have pissed on to avoid catching C19?


----------



## Nigeyy (20 Mar 2020)

Well I think my sister and her husband have it. They had all the classic symptoms for a couple of days but are now feeling better. They are self isolating. I didn't change my poll response as it's not confirmed.

I'm in self isolation as well with the wife and kids. My son has cystic fibrosis and has had heart problems. I just don't know how I'm going to keep him from this. One day at a time though.


----------



## Julia9054 (20 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Being a bit 'OCD' about germs and bacteria long before all this C19 stuff,my 'OCD' has surprisingly calmed down,not got worse, now that everybody else is wiping this and that down with anti-bac stuff. I've been thinking that maybe the body taking in more germs will help you avoid C19. I read this online......
> 
> _'Hope this isn’t too convoluted.
> 
> ...


Except that different viruses target different types of cells in the body. Viruses that cause diarrhoea etc will not attach to cells in the respiratory system


----------



## winjim (20 Mar 2020)

OK, stop farking about. I have family members with the virus. They are in the ICU and one particularly is lucky to be alive after her O2 sat dropped precipitously.

TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY.

Anybody carrying on their lives, going out as normal needs to take a good long look at themselves and grow up. What you are doing is stupid, selfish and dangerous. I think my relatives are probably lucky because they got ill before the disease peaked and the ICUs got overwhelmed, which IS GOING TO HAPPEN. This is not business as usual, not stiff upper lip, not blitz spirit or any other little Englander soundbite BS. We all need to make major lifestyle changes and MAKE THEM NOW. Slow this thing down, flatten the curve* and give the health service a sliver of a chance to be able to cope with this thing.

TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY


*yes I'm aware that this is a soundbite


Correction: one is in ICU, one is at home.


----------



## gbb (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> We have loads of clowns coming into work unwell. People won't get full sick pay so they will spread it all over. That's why maybe the full lock down method could be wiser.


It's an Impossible scenario unless your employer is right behind the need to be sensible.
My outfit currently has 300 to 500 agency workers every day at peaks, the place is packed with people, bad enough as it is. But then 99% of those people are immigrant (43 nationalities at the last count) and will probably come in to work come hell or high water. 
We are told, if you suspect someone is unwell, report it...but with that amount of people, it's an impossible scenario again.
Then its food production and flowers packing(30% of the business right now is food) so the food workers would probably be classed as key workers...its a busy environment so transmission of any virus isnt hard anyway.
Rock and a hard place springs to mind.


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

Been in bed since early evening with high fever and sweats, lots of sweats. Slightly achey, no sore throat or cough. Paracetamol worked well. Not too bad this morning.
I’m not sure it’s CV19, other bugs are still available, but we’re carrying-on as if it is. I may be spending more time in my shed....


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

Dayvo said:


> Looks like I'll be having an unexpected extension to my winter migration! 😳
> It will extend well into the spring, if not the summer and (fortunately) it has only broken out in a few areas to date.
> 
> So, back to the beach. 😎


I used to like you....


----------



## newfhouse (20 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I may be spending more time in my shed....


With your full size Donald poster?


----------



## Rocky (20 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Been in bed since early evening with high fever and sweats, lots of sweats. Slightly achey, no sore throat or cough. Paracetamol worked well. Not too bad this morning.
> I’m not sure it’s CV19, other bugs are still available, but we’re carrying-on as if it is. I may be spending more time in my shed....


I’ve had exactly the same symptoms - feeling slightly better today apart from brain freeze. GWS Fabbers


----------



## perplexed (20 Mar 2020)

newfhouse said:


> With your full size Donald poster?



We need a 'puking' like button.


----------



## gbb (20 Mar 2020)

Bhitucyclist said:


> Love the poll idea !


If I can I'm going to take a screenshot every day or so. See how it differs from the start as the virus progresses.


----------



## postman (20 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I didn't know that Postie. Probably because you haven't mentioned it before on CC,but you know what i mean. Can i ask,have you had the eye removed or is the eye still there but it's 'blind'?




I was born with a squint,or as it was known in the 1950 a lazy eye.I had the old wire framed Nhs specs i hated them,but now on e bay i would get a fortune for them.Thanks to John Lennon.So to try and pull it back inline they put sticky tape over the good eye.Shame was the vision i have looks like a Picasso painting .So an eye op to straighten it,years later another cos the muscle weakens and now it's going back outside again ' i can cry over my left shoulder' but there is no more muscle left so it might go completely in years to come,so i wear dark lenses like sun glasses.Never had proper sight in it.


----------



## fossyant (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Hang on, there's too many Coronathreads, I meant to post in this one. Anyway, poorly baby so it's isolation for us.
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/what-are-your-lock-down-plans.258517/post-5918562



My brother's little lad has a high temp too - most likely teething though, but being careful.


----------



## postman (20 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Been in bed since early evening with high fever and sweats, lots of sweats. Slightly achey, no sore throat or cough. Paracetamol worked well. Not too bad this morning.
> I’m not sure it’s CV19, other bugs are still available, but we’re carrying-on as if it is. I may be spending more time in my shed....




sort of manly hugs from here.Non contagious ,hope it's not the virus that shall not be mentioned.


----------



## benb (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> OK, stop farking about. I have family members with the virus. They are in the ICU and one particularly is lucky to be alive after her O2 sat dropped precipitously.
> 
> TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY.
> 
> ...



This, absolutely.

Whilst it is the case that the majority of people will only get fairly mild symptoms, the really important thing right now is to slow it down.
If we don't, the hospitals will be absolutely overwhelmed when the cases outstrip their ICU capacity. We've seen this in Italy, where people are dying simply because the hospitals are over capacity.

So stop being dangerous selfish self-gratification artists. 
Stay at home if you possibly can. Wash your hands. A lot.
We desperately need to disrupt the infection pathways to buy the NHS enough time.


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

benb said:


> This, absolutely.
> 
> Whilst it is the case that the majority of people will only get fairly mild symptoms, the really important thing right now is to slow it down.
> If we don't, the hospitals will be absolutely overwhelmed when the cases outstrip their ICU capacity. We've seen this in Italy, where people are dying simply because the hospitals are over capacity.
> ...


Just had a delivery, driver was standing well away and I congratulated him on social distancing, "Oh, I'm not bothered about it mate, just some people are getting funny"
Had another delivery, "Thing is I had a cough before Christmas, load of people did so I think I've already had it", rep that was stood there "Yeah, I had that too and thought the same", me, trying not to facepalm cos we're not allowed to.


----------



## benb (20 Mar 2020)

Absolute cretins.
"Well, it'll probably be mild for me, so I don't need to worry or change my behaviour"

The blitz spirit is all well and good when the enemy are terrorists or similar. By all means, in that situation, go to the pub to demonstrate you will not be cowed.

But if you do it now, the enemy could follow you home and kill your nan.


----------



## Pale Rider (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Just had a delivery, driver was standing well away and I congratulated him on social distancing, "Oh, I'm not bothered about it mate, just some people are getting funny"
> Had another delivery, "Thing is I had a cough before Christmas, load of people did so I think I've already had it", rep that was stood there "Yeah, I had that too and thought the same", me, trying not to facepalm cos we're not allowed to.



Just out of interest, what does your shop sell, Muggers?


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Just out of interest, what does your shop sell, Muggers?


Kitchens, bathrooms, tiles. I suspect I'm not on the key worker list.


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Patch are the local food bank charity.


----------



## Pale Rider (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Kitchens, bathrooms, tiles. I suspect I'm not on the key worker list.



Probably not, although as observed lots of workers are.

The last similar list I recall is one for a fuel crisis in the early 2000s.

I also recall thinking at the time that with a bit of interpretation you could say nearly every job type was on it.


----------



## winjim (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Kitchens, bathrooms, tiles. I suspect I'm not on the key worker list.


Dunno, hard surfaces are easy to disinfect so maybe we all need to tile our living areas. Could be boom time.


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

postman said:


> sort of manly hugs from here.Non contagious ,hope it's not the virus that shall not be mentioned.


I hope it is, I’d hate to think I could still get it!


----------



## Rocky (20 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I hope it is, I’d hate to think I could still get it!


The Prof says she’s not coming anywhere near me.......so what’s new?


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> The Prof says she’s not coming anywhere near me.......so what’s new?


You having to stay in the East wing or at the summer residence?


----------



## Rocky (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> You having to stay in the East wing or at the summer residence?


The shed in the garden


----------



## perplexed (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Dunno, hard surfaces are easy to disinfect so maybe we all need to tile our living areas. Could be boom time.



Bit of a tangent, but we're a fan of hard flooring. I stripped all the wooden floors in our house and kept the bare wood. The bathroom is tiled. The only carpet we have is on the stairs and landing, bar a rug where the settee is.

It's great for cleaning...


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Dunno, hard surfaces are easy to disinfect so maybe we all need to tile our living areas. Could be boom time.





perplexed said:


> Bit of a tangent, but we're a fan of hard flooring. I stripped all the wooden floors in our house and kept the bare wood. The bathroom is tiled. The only carpet we have is on the stairs and landing, bar a rug where the settee is.
> 
> It's great for cleaning...


Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.


Can you get non-slip tiles for wet rooms? Non-slip enough for someone to safely use sticks or a walking frame on?


----------



## Smokin Joe (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.


Have you any tiles that absorb the impact of a Pyrex dish without shattering it? Only I keep getting shouted at.


----------



## perplexed (20 Mar 2020)

As I'm sure many are aware, hard (tiled) floors are so much more prevalent across mainland Europe than in the UK. I think they're generally a good idea (I appreciate there's an argument that the UK is a bit colder, but tiles are still common in areas of Europe which have lots of snow) because they're so hard wearing and easy to clean. 

Daft though it may seem, when Mrs P and I are looking out for self-catering cottages in France/wherever, it's one of the things we look for. Ditto 'transit' hotels. God knows what's lurking in carpets, even the ones which are well cleaned. It's a selling point for us.


----------



## icowden (20 Mar 2020)

Just to cheer people up...


View: https://youtu.be/COlCe0hJXN0


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (20 Mar 2020)

icowden said:


> Just to cheer people up...
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/COlCe0hJXN0




View: https://youtu.be/orIy18qIaCU


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Can you get non-slip tiles for wet rooms? Non-slip enough for someone to safely use sticks or a walking frame on?


Anti-slip yes.
Tiles can be put through a variety of tests to find out how slippy they are and they are then given a rating to indicate their anti-slip properties. DIN and PTV, the higher the rating the less slippy they are. The problem really is that the less slippy a tile the more gritty it tends to be, and so the more difficult to clean it is. I've sold tiles that were akin to a really coarse sandpaper, super anti-slip, impossible to clean.
So people doing disabled access bathrooms will often go with something like Alturo, which is the rubbery sort of stuff that forms a skirting too, reasonable anti-slip and easy to clean too. I don't personally like it, I think it looks horrible, I also believe that just because you're finding life a little difficult for some reason you don't need to be reminded of the fact every time you set foot in your bathroom. It has its place in care homes and hospitals etc.
The fact is that any option carries a risk of slipping, aside really from carpet, but thankfully the days of carpet on bathroom floors has gone, well, almost, so you invariably have to take additional precautions anyway. It's a bit of a balancing act between what you like the look of, what level of roughness you're prepared to put up with and the level of anti-slip you want.


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Have you any tiles that absorb the impact of a Pyrex dish without shattering it? Only I keep getting shouted at.


Yes. 
Though my terms and conditions forbid me from making specific guarantees.


----------



## Salty seadog (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.



Super. I'll take 3 ta.


----------



## GM (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I've sold tiles that were akin to a really coarse sandpaper, super anti-slip, impossible to clean.




Ideal for my corns!


----------



## Salty seadog (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.





Salty seadog said:


> Actually that was a little hasty, make it 4.
> Super. I'll take 3 ta.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Anti-slip yes.
> Tiles can be put through a variety of tests to find out how slippy they are and they are then given a rating to indicate their anti-slip properties. DIN and PTV, the higher the rating the less slippy they are. The problem really is that the less slippy a tile the more gritty it tends to be, and so the more difficult to clean it is. I've sold tiles that were akin to a really coarse sandpaper, super anti-slip, impossible to clean.
> So people doing disabled access bathrooms will often go with something like *Alturo*, which is the rubbery sort of stuff that forms a skirting too, reasonable anti-slip and easy to clean too. I don't personally like it, I think it looks horrible, I also believe that just because you're finding life a little difficult for some reason you don't need to be reminded of the fact every time you set foot in your bathroom. It has its place in care homes and hospitals etc.
> The fact is that any option carries a risk of slipping, aside really from carpet, but thankfully the days of carpet on bathroom floors has gone, well, almost, so you invariably have to take additional precautions anyway. It's a bit of a balancing act between what you like the look of, what level of roughness you're prepared to put up with and the level of anti-slip you want.


Yeah, we have something that looks like that. Horrible stuff only effectively cleaned by getting on your hands and knees with a scrubbing brush. An hour later it looks dirty again 

I stay in a lot of hotels and see some great wet rooms, but not a lot I'd feel were safe for my wife.


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Yeah, we have something that looks like that. Horrible stuff only effectively cleaned by getting on your hands and knees with a scrubbing brush. An hour later it looks dirty again
> 
> I stay in a lot of hotels and see some great wet rooms, but not a lot I'd feel were safe for my wife.


Mosaic can be good too because you've got a lot of surface area, the downside is you've also got a lot of grout.


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Everybody should tile all surfaces Corona or not, and they should all buy their tiles from me, you know it makes sense.


Just mention on fb that tiles are in short supply....


----------



## Milzy (20 Mar 2020)

People are putting up material joking about the C-19 but when I had a conspiracy theory I was flamed with the post removed. 
It's disgusting and disrespectful to all the families involved. Different rules for different people.


----------



## Rocky (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> People are putting up material joking about the C-19 but when I had a conspiracy theory I was flamed with the post removed.
> It's disgusting and disrespectful to all the families involved. Different rules for different people.


If you can’t see the difference between humour and spreading lies.......well


----------



## Milzy (20 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> If you can’t see the difference between humour and spreading lies.......well


It is not spreading lies it's discussion material. Humour out of the misery of others, well if that's ok you're a sick individual.


----------



## Rocky (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> It is not spreading lies it's discussion material. Humour out of the misery of others, well if that's ok you're a sick individual.


Spreading lies causes huge damage. Humour doesn’t need to be focused on the misery of others. Get a grip


----------



## Milzy (20 Mar 2020)

There's some awful corvid humour out there on social media. Plus many are going to be in financial ruin. I fail to see the funny side of all this.


----------



## winjim (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> There's some awful corvid humour out there on social media. Plus many are going to be in financial ruin. I fail to see the funny side of all this.


There's no need to crow about it.


----------



## icowden (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> There's some awful corvid humour out there on social media. Plus many are going to be in financial ruin. I fail to see the funny side of all this.



That's because you are not grasping that when life puts you in a difficult situation humour is very important as a coping mechanism. Hence the term "gallows humour". Most people like to keep their spirits up rather than sitting gibbering incoherently in a corner.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> People are putting up material joking about the C-19 but when I had a conspiracy theory I was flamed with the post removed.
> It's disgusting and disrespectful to all the families involved. Different rules for different people.



Are you getting insufficient attention at home or something?


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> It is not spreading lies it's discussion material. Humour out of the misery of others, well if that's ok you're a sick individual.


When you think it is happening, call it out.


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> There's some awful corvid humour out there on social media. Plus many are going to be in financial ruin. I fail to see the funny side of all this.


Is there any here we can debate?


----------



## Fab Foodie (20 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> There's no need to crow about it.


...or appear quite so choughed....


----------



## fossyant (20 Mar 2020)

Just been to the local supermarket to get flowers for MIL (she's in a Nursing Home). My word, the place was gutted. Picked up a couple of tins of cat food (won't go far with 5). On the funny side, the loo roll aisle was full of mother's day flowers !


----------



## vickster (20 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Is there any here we can debate?



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2exWrsGOc

Laughing crows?


----------



## postman (20 Mar 2020)

I Drago is self isolating what is his butler doing.Don't tell me he has laid him off.


----------



## perplexed (20 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Just been to the local supermarket to get flowers for MIL (she's in a Nursing Home). My word, the place was gutted. Picked up a couple of tins of cat food (won't go far with 5). On the funny side, the loo roll aisle was full of mother's day flowers !



I've popped into Morrison's this afternoon, and one upside of the acres of empty shelves in certain aisles was that the cleaners were really going for it, because they could actually get to them.


----------



## Milzy (20 Mar 2020)

Anybody got any strange chest sensations yet?


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (20 Mar 2020)

Shocking scenes in Tesco Stirling today. 3 grown men fighting an old lady for the last four-pack of toilet roll. Of course, I rushed over to help and between us we managed to get it off the old bat.


----------



## Lilliburlero (20 Mar 2020)

I work for a company that makes anti bacterial soap and we were all given 10 litres for our own personal use today. My daughter and I decided that the village care home would benefit from it more than us, so we dropped 5 litres off this evening on our dog walk. Big virtue signalling post I know, sorry about that 😇


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> There's some awful corvid humour out there on social media. Plus many are going to be in financial ruin. I fail to see the funny side of all this.



It’s called black humour and is a coping mechanism under extreme circumstances. You’ll find it very much with medical staff who see death and suffering day in day out. As well as mountaineers and climbers who see their friends and climbing partners die. There will be other groups.


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s called black humour and is a coping mechanism under extreme circumstances. You’ll find it very much with medical staff who see death and suffering day in day out. As well as mountaineers and climbers who see their friends and climbing partners die. There will be other groups.



A very good mate of mine lost his leg in a motorbike accident some time ago - very lucky to survive the crash.
When we met up some months later for a curry, I told him he could only have one pint, I did not want him completely legless.
He loved it.

It is a way of talking about tough stuff without being maudlin.


----------



## AuroraSaab (20 Mar 2020)

I think the humour thing depends on what's said and the context. You obviously knew your friend would find it funny, but you might not have said it to a stranger. I have seen some very funny posts and photos making fun of the situation, but also some insensitive stuff on Facebook etc that really wasn't funny. Also, joking about stuff in person with people you know, is very different to posting 'gallows humour' to the world.


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)




----------



## tyred (20 Mar 2020)

About three times per day at work, one of the cleaners chases me away from my desk for a few minutes while she disinfects it for me before beckoning me over again to get back to work and going on to someone else.


----------



## PK99 (20 Mar 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> I think the humour thing depends on what's said and the context. You obviously knew your friend would find it funny, but you might not have said it to a stranger. I have seen some very funny posts and photos making fun of the situation, but also some insensitive stuff on Facebook etc that really wasn't funny. Also, joking about stuff in person with people you know, is very different to posting 'gallows humour' to the world.



Agree with all that - the public/broadcast version needs to be more gentle.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Mar 2020)

In terms of how we are doing we are mentally ok. My wife and I are not huge social butterflies and I’m an introvert so the isolating / distancing is not such a wrench. My elderly mother however has cancelled her social diary and is a bit lost, especially with the leisure centre now being shut. I’m being somewhat more communicative with her and she’s finding out more about the mundanities of my life which is not something I normally see as worth sharing with her. But makes her feel less isolated at this time.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Mar 2020)

Oh and whilst out cycling solo today unexpectedly I saw a friend from our CTC group doing the same whilst passing on other side of road. So it was nice to greet each other as we passed in opposite directions.


----------



## AuroraSaab (20 Mar 2020)

Saw these today:


----------



## Mugshot (20 Mar 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> Saw these today:
> View attachment 509414
> 
> 
> View attachment 509415


Here's a couple I enjoyed


View: https://twitter.com/YukilapinBN/status/1240763807431090177?s=20



View: https://twitter.com/CuriouslyEmily/status/1240916251448410112?s=20


----------



## Rezillo (20 Mar 2020)

Tonight's feel-good tv from the BBC

7.30pm Survivors (1975). A community of survivors struggle to stay alive in the wake of a global pandemic known as the Death that wiped out 99.98% of humanity.

Yay! Bring it on.

8.30pm Threads (1984). The effects of a nuclear holocaust on the working class city of Sheffield, England and the eventual long-term effects of nuclear war on civilization.

Wimps.

10pm Contagion. Healthcare professionals, government officials and everyday people find themselves in the midst of a pandemic as the CDC works to find a cure.

They cured it, losers.

11.30pm Mrs Browns Boys (boxset). A chance to see all your favourite episodes. 

Click...Bang!.....thump of something heavy falling on the floor.


----------



## Accy cyclist (20 Mar 2020)

I went down my local pub for what could be the last time. I walked in then straight back out again. No locals in,just late teens to mid 30's pissed up,probably coked up chavs! One was spewing up outside saying he was 'going to f..k..g kill someone',so i thought it wise to leave asap. Another self-gratification artist had a big horrible looking 'devil dog' which wasn't on a lead. I predict lots of civil unrest soon!


----------



## slowmotion (20 Mar 2020)

I discovered eight kitchen rolls in the back of the van this afternoon. They were a bit battered....must have been in there for over a year. Anyway, I've cut each sheet in half and have decided to make them individually available to the general public. What do you reckon the starting bid should be?


----------



## Milzy (21 Mar 2020)

They're perishing all alone. People are saying they're going to die anyway eventually. Would it be immoral to not shut the economy down and carry on? Crime and suicides will sky rocket because of this. We will see more child poverty and homeless people on our streets. We will have stress and suffering for years.


----------



## Rocky (21 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> They're perishing all alone. People are saying they're going to die anyway eventually. Would it be immoral to not shut the economy down and carry on? Crime and suicides will sky rocket because of this. We will see more child poverty and homeless people on our streets. We will have stress and suffering for years.


The modelling from Imperial College suggests that doing nothing and carrying on as before would lead to 500,000 deaths. The prediction is that with the previous social distancing measures 250,000 would die. These have now been ramped up - hopefully more lives will be saved.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

No approach is ideal - things are not going to be the same again, but it’s a case of following the least bad option.


----------



## snorri (21 Mar 2020)

The stresses of parenthood mount with school closures..........................

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1241019519457472512


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Up for the first time in 2 days....






...self medicating after breakfast....






Still not 100% yet....


----------



## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521
> 
> ...


Outside lav and a hose, must be grim!


----------



## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521
> 
> ...


GWS


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Outside lav and a hose, must be grim!


Ha! But no toilet roll in sight :-)


----------



## Salty seadog (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521
> 
> ...



Hang on, don't I know you from Start Wars? 






GWS buddy.


----------



## snorri (21 Mar 2020)

We have plenty of Covid19 threads already, but perhaps a Twitter/ Covid19 humour thread could be justified.

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1241302400260083712


----------



## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ha! But no toilet roll in sight :-)


Lovely garden though.


----------



## Rocky (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521
> 
> ...


Glad to see you up and about again. Dr Gravel is available for consultations and advice. Just say the word and I’ll send him down.


----------



## Rocky (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Lovely garden though.
> 
> View attachment 509527


Ha ha ha!! Absolutely perfect


----------



## Rocky (21 Mar 2020)

Salty seadog said:


> Hang on, don't I know you from Start Wars?
> 
> View attachment 509525
> 
> GWS buddy.


And that’s when Fabbers is looking well.


----------



## Salty seadog (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Lovely garden though.
> 
> View attachment 509527



Very swift.


----------



## Archie_tect (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ha! But no toilet roll in sight :-)


That's what the hose is for...


----------



## C R (21 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> That's what the hose is for...


And the grass


----------



## Rocky (21 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> That's what the hose is for...


Or in Fabbers case


----------



## rich p (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Still not 100% yet....


Have you ever been?


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (21 Mar 2020)

rich p said:


> Have you ever been?


...to me?


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> And the grass


Fake!


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

rich p said:


> Have you ever been?


Well certainly not since the unfortunate cross country running incident with the barbed-wire fence


----------



## Salty seadog (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Well certainly not since the unfortunate cross country running incident with the barbed-wire fence



🧐


----------



## GM (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521




Ladies and Gentlemen in the blue corner it's Fighting Fabbers


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen in the blue corner it's Fighting Fabbers


Flab Foodie!


----------



## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Ha ha ha!! Absolutely perfect


Thank you


----------



## Salty seadog (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Flab Foodie!



The change one letter thread is that way...
<---->


----------



## StuAff (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Up for the first time in 2 days....
> 
> View attachment 509521
> 
> ...


Glad to see that. Fab news indeed.


----------



## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

View: https://twitter.com/shane_reaction_/status/1241288954856513537?s=20


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Thank you
> 
> View attachment 509535


I’m not sure I get the Farage/Morgan references though....


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Lovely garden though.
> 
> View attachment 509527


Very good, but not McNuggets!


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> ...to me?


No, but have been to Paradise


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’m not sure I get the Farage/Morgan references though....


Oh, is it ‘cos they’re McD loving Trump’s buddies?


----------



## Milzy (21 Mar 2020)

They should have made sure that all the vulnerable and elderly were locked down over a month ago.
We could have saved more life's, had goods in the supermarkets, people would still have their jobs. Now we're all going to suffer in varying different degrees. All the poor people in financial ruin thanks to the wrong government decisions. We got Brexit wrong and we have also got this wrong. We used to be Great Britain, now we're just broken Britain. I feel sorry for the future generations.


----------



## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’m not sure I get the Farage/Morgan references though....


They're for me.


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> They're for me.


Now I’m even more confused!


----------



## Archie_tect (21 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> ...to me?


...to you.


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Mar 2020)

I’ve just taken a turn for the worst...John Lewis is shutting down....


----------



## roubaixtuesday (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’ve just taken a turn for the worst...John Lewis is shutting down....



Don't worry, Waitrose here still had fresh quail's eggs this morning. 

(Mind you, there were none of the normal hens ones at all)


----------



## Archie_tect (21 Mar 2020)

Aldi back to normal supplies in Westerhope and everyone's being sensible... including Rhubarb and Custard Hot Cross Buns.


----------



## winjim (21 Mar 2020)

Just been for a trip to the OOH GP with the baby, which was a bit weird. They do most of the consultation over the phone and only tell you to come in if they're sure you need to be seen. When you turn up there's a mobile number on the door to call so they know you're there, then they call you back when it's OK to come in. They've cordoned off a little corridor with chairs which funnels you to the consulting room, where you wash your hands and put on a mask, then the Dr comes in wearing mask, visor and gown. Now I've got a prescription to pick up so there'll be a similar rigmarole at the pharmacy...

Ever tried to get a protective mask on a one year old?


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’ve just taken a turn for the worst...John Lewis is shutting down....



Is it true that some John Lewis staff are being transferred to Waitrose to help out?


----------



## vickster (21 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Is it true that some John Lewis staff are being transferred to Waitrose to help out?


Yes, from the email I received earlier (and my brother who works in JL HO said the same earlier in the week)

Our shop Partners will be joining their colleagues at Waitrose, as we play our part to help feed the nation during this time. Our Waitrose shops have introduced special opening hours and have announced a £1million Community support fund which will be used to help the most isolated and vulnerable members of our communities.


----------



## MontyVeda (21 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Aldi back to normal supplies in Westerhope and everyone's being sensible... including Rhubarb and Custard Hot Cross Buns.



Got a 10 hour shift in Aldi tomorrow. This last week's been quite challenging to say the least, and Sundays aren't sensible in normal times; the shop is 'normally' rammed from 10am 'til 4pm... I'll just have to wait and see what tomorrow brings, and next week too. Part of me hopes things aren't back to normal as we've taken on a stack of new staff; all very recently laid off from their usual jobs and probably feeling relieved that they've got an income again. It'd be a shame if their temporary jobs only last a week or two... especially if their usual jobs aren't coming back anytime soon.


----------



## snorri (21 Mar 2020)

Meanwhile the Daily Fail is doing its best to spread Covid 19 by encouraging their readers to jump in their cars and drive to the remotest parts of the UK mainland and islands which are apparently ideal spots to self isolate. They're showing a complete disregard for the safety of the local populace in these places and also the 'don't travel unneccessarily' messages from government.
I will not post the Daily Fail link, don't want to encourage them.


----------



## Milzy (21 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> Meanwhile the Daily Fail is doing its best to spread Covid 19 by encouraging their readers to jump in their cars and drive to the remotest parts of the UK mainland and islands which are apparently ideal spots to self isolate. They're showing a complete disregard for the safety of the local populace in these places and also the 'don't travel unneccessarily' messages from government.
> I will not post the Daily Fail link, don't want to encourage them.


Heard about people wanting to drive up to the highlands. Selfish knobbers they are.


----------



## snorri (21 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Heard about people wanting to drive up to the highlands. Selfish knobbers they are.


I've just heard that one north highland caravan site opened on schedule yesterday, no mention of any Covid 19 on the site website.
Looking at the Caravan Club website again no significant mention of Covid-19
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/
Strongly worded but polite message sent to CC HQ.


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## Milzy (21 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> I've just heard that one north highland caravan site opened on schedule yesterday, no mention of any Covid 19 on the site website.
> Looking at the Caravan Club website again no significant mention of Covid-19
> https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/
> Strongly worded but polite message sent to CC HQ.


Also people are offering £100 less for accommodation for example log cabin in the woods with hot tub and the owners are saying yes to fill spaces last minute. Everyone is out for what they can get.


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## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Now I’m even more confused!


None of it really meant anything Fabbers, I was just bored in work and thought I'd have a little play with your photo.


----------



## perplexed (21 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> None of it really meant anything Fabbers, I was just bored in work and thought I'd have a little play with your photo.



Haven't you got 20,000 mosaic tiles to sort by colour and size?!


----------



## PK99 (21 Mar 2020)

I'n not letting Domestic Quarantine interfere with cooking:







Starter for my Isolated Wife this evening.

_oeuf en meurette_ with crispy parma ham and a glass of fine Mersault - From Rick Steins Secret France


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## Mugshot (21 Mar 2020)

perplexed said:


> Haven't you got 20,000 mosaic tiles to sort by colour and size?!


Too busy shitposting for that!


----------



## GM (21 Mar 2020)




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## Pale Rider (21 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> I've just heard that one north highland caravan site opened on schedule yesterday, no mention of any Covid 19 on the site website.
> Looking at the Caravan Club website again no significant mention of Covid-19
> https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/
> Strongly worded but polite message sent to CC HQ.



Well done for doing something other than ranting on here.

I have a static on a non Caravan Club site.

The owners have said they are not taking tourers due to the virus, but are open as normal to those of us who have statics.

I'm wrestling with my conscience over whether I should be visiting or not.


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## Archie_tect (21 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Well done for doing something other than ranting on here.
> 
> I have a static on a non Caravan Club site.
> 
> ...


If you can get there without stopping or interacting with anyone on the way there or back , then that's as good as staying indoors.


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## snorri (21 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> If you can get there without stopping or interacting with anyone on the way there or back , then that's as good as staying indoors.


You may say that, but it is in conflict with government advice, holiday travel cannot be considered to be essential travel.
https://www.gov.scot/news/travel-warning/


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## Joey Shabadoo (21 Mar 2020)

Heard from family in Panama today. They've had a night time curfew since Wednesday and there's rumours it'll go 24 hrs next week so they've been emptying all the stock out of their store and factory over the last couple of days. The last curfew was during the American invasion and they got looted (they make jewellery). My niece is stuck at their beach house where troops have set up a roadblock and aren't letting anyone in or out (there are several government ministers with houses in the area).


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> If you can get there without stopping or interacting with anyone on the way there or back , then that's as good as staying indoors.



I agree that, assuming the journeys whent strictly as planned, they wouldn't add to the risk of me transmitting the virus or contracting it.

But as @snorri points out, the journeys would conflict with government advice.

The stay itself would also be low risk, stopping on your own in a static caravan is a solitary activity - that's part of the attraction.

But if I stayed for any longer than a few hours I would be interacting with the locals by administrative visits to the site office, or by buying food supplies, either from the on site shop or another nearby.


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## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

Tomorrow's papers full of discussion around these issues.


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## slowmotion (22 Mar 2020)

There are plentiful supplies of beer ( and the rest) at my local W14 grog shop.
I've been idly wondering if I'll get a self-quarantine letter from the NHS early next week.


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I've been idly wondering if I'll get a self-quarantine letter from the NHS early next week.



I suspect I will get one of the letters.

If it's as outlined in this story, it will order me to stop in and have no physical contact with anyone for 12 weeks.

That will be a hard ask, because it will include things such as getting someone else to do the food shopping, or ordering all of it online.

No cycling and no gossipy visits to the bike shop will properly clip my wings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51991887


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Further to my rant regarding shopping and autism hour, can anybody spot the very, very obvious problems with this patronising rubbish?


View: https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1241258219986735104?s=19


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## slowmotion (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I suspect I will get one of the letters.
> 
> If it's as outlined in this story, it will order me to stop in and have no physical contact with anyone for 12 weeks.
> 
> ...


The way things seem to be shaping up, I don't think we would be significantly more restricted than the general herd.


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## Shut Up Legs (22 Mar 2020)

I have a fallback plan for if I have to isolate/quarantine myself: I just moved into this house just over a week ago, and there are so, so many boxes! 
Then because I changed my email I have to notify a huge number of people of the new email address, and more people of the new postal address. I think my new accommodation is going to keep me busy for a while...


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I agree that, assuming the journeys whent strictly as planned, they wouldn't add to the risk of me transmitting the virus or contracting it.
> 
> But as @snorri points out, the journeys would conflict with government advice.
> 
> ...


I don't know where your caravan is, and it sounds a nice idea at first thought but there's talk of influxes of second-homers overwhelming the shops and healthcare services of rural communities, so I reckon it's best to stay put. Any travel brings the risk of spreading the virus.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> None of it really meant anything Fabbers, I was just bored in work and thought I'd have a little play with your photo.


Oh, I’m not offended one little bit, was more worried that I couldn't see the joke - that would be worrying, a further sign of impending senility :-)


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Just been for a trip to the OOH GP with the baby, which was a bit weird. They do most of the consultation over the phone and only tell you to come in if they're sure you need to be seen. When you turn up there's a mobile number on the door to call so they know you're there, then they call you back when it's OK to come in. They've cordoned off a little corridor with chairs which funnels you to the consulting room, where you wash your hands and put on a mask, then the Dr comes in wearing mask, visor and gown. Now I've got a prescription to pick up so there'll be a similar rigmarole at the pharmacy...
> 
> Ever tried to get a protective mask on a one year old?


So there was not a similar rigmarole at the pharmacy, just walked straight in. But, I would just like to offer this brief synopsis of our appointment, to be absolutely clear where we're at.

*A one year old infant presented at the out of hours GP surgery with symptoms consistent with COVID-19 infection. *After taking a history amd conducting an examination, patient was prescribed amoxicillin for a possible chest infection and parent advised to contact GP in the case of symptoms not stabilising within 3-4 days. *Testing for COVID-19 was not offered.*


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> I've just heard that one north highland caravan site opened on schedule yesterday, no mention of any Covid 19 on the site website.
> Looking at the Caravan Club website again no significant mention of Covid-19
> https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/
> Strongly worded but polite message sent to CC HQ.


I confess that when it became clear a couple of weeks ago that I couldn’t travel to customers as they shut their doors, we harboured thoughts of packing the van and heading to Scotland. This was before all the homeworking/forced closures elsewhere began.
Our May trip is cancelled and we’re hoping to get refunds from Calmac.

Regarding Caravan sites et al. Selfishly I’m hoping Caravan sites* will remain open as long as Hotels are open. Like @Pale Rider our Moho is fully contained with food, water, sanitation and power as long as somebody opens the gate to the site we can park-up and without any need to go outside for several days (actually apart from walking the dog). We don’t need the communal facilities. Thus we are wondering whether we might get-away to local sites. We consume no more food/drink than we would normally and as we take it with us it’s from our home local shops. There should not be any additional contact of a significance and it will be good for the soul. If either of us are unwell we’ll never be further than an hour from home and the same hospital system.

*Caravan Club and Moho Club sites are very well regulated, low density sites, often adult only, many are a maximum of 5 units. They’re mostly frequented by miserable old farts like us sitting in the sun ignoring everybody else.
Very different to large Private sites.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> You may say that, but it is in conflict with government advice, holiday travel cannot be considered to be essential travel.
> https://www.gov.scot/news/travel-warning/


The government is going to have to officially shut down all the UK holiday/tourism B&B, Hotels, beaches etc, the whole industry.

There are reports of massed gatherings all over the place, yet we can’t sit alone with our van in a field 30 miles away


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> The government is going to have to officially shut down all the UK holiday/tourism B&B, Hotels, beaches etc, the whole industry.
> 
> There are reports of massed gatherings all over the place, yet we can’t sit alone with our van in a field 30 miles away



I agree a few days in our respective tin boxes is close to full compliance.

It's the journey 'in' in your case, and 'to' in mine which is a breach.

That is hard to get around because neither of us can claim we have to go.


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## Milzy (22 Mar 2020)

So many people are saying just self isolate now. People won't get paid. I'll be going into work unless the government do a proper lock down like Spain France Italy etc. Then I run the risk of infection. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I agree a few days in our respective tin boxes is close to full compliance.
> 
> It's the journey 'in' in your case, and 'to' in mine which is a breach.
> 
> That is hard to get around because neither of us can claim we have to go.


In my case, drive to empty storage compound, get in van. Drive max 1 hour, park at site.
For you, house -car-caravan. No human interactions required. Faaaaar less than going to the local corner shop.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2020)

Conversation in bakery yesterday.

Got any hot pies?
No (nothing else offered) 
Got any sausage rolls?
Yes (nothing else offered)
Are they hot?
They won’t be now, you are late (???)
I will have that treacle tart then and is that an apple turnover? 
No (nothing else offered)
What is it then?
etc.

If they were trying to self isolate their bakery business they were doing a good job.


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## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2020)

More people discussing the merits of getting in their mobile homes - 


View: https://twitter.com/joolsmc/status/1241420753049968641


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2020)

In other news I’ve sent my mother some pictures of flowers in our garden and wished her happy Mother’s Day .


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## Gunk (22 Mar 2020)

Unless you live in a commune I really can’t see the benefits of living in a remote caravan was weeks on end, four of us in a mobile home 😮 it would finish me off!


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> In my case, drive to empty storage compound, get in van. Drive max 1 hour, park at site.
> For you, house -car-caravan. No human interactions required. *Faaaaar less than going to the local corner shop.*


I'm understanding the general self-isolating in a caravan/camper arguments, but I'm not sure what point you're making here sorry.


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> In my case, drive to empty storage compound, get in van. Drive max 1 hour, park at site.
> For you, house -car-caravan. No human interactions required. Faaaaar less than going to the local corner shop.



This is us, drive 1 hour to static caravan, take food from home, don't see anyone, but at least we can sit on a desserted beach. The only folk we see is the dog walkers.


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> This is us, drive 1 hour to static caravan, take food from home, don't see anyone, but at least we can sit on a desserted beach. The only folk we see is the dog walkers.



Same here, but as I've probably posted more than enough now, I'm struggling to justify doing it under the virus advice/restrictions.


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## snorri (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> The government is going to have to officially shut down all the UK holiday/tourism B&B, Hotels, beaches etc, the whole industry.
> There are reports of massed gatherings all over the place, yet we can’t sit alone with our van in a field 30 miles away


The Scottish government shouldn't have to officially shut down anything, the whole tourism industry in the Highlands is already almost totally shut down, it is simply impractical to attempt to close beaches here. I'm unaware of any massed gatherings anywhere in the Highlands.
Why should we wait for the setting up of legislation to effect behaviour change? Can we not just accept present advice which is not over demanding anyway?


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Same here, but as I've probably posted more than enough now, I'm struggling to justify doing it under the virus advice/restrictions.



It's why were shutting the van today.


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> It's why were shutting the van today.



Ah, I did wonder.

Well done, you are certainly doing your bit.

Frustrating to see others not doing the same in lots of ways, not just with caravans.


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## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> The Scottish government shouldn't have to officially shut down anything, the whole tourism industry in the Highlands is already almost totally shut down, it is simply impractical to attempt to close beaches here. I'm unaware of any massed gatherings anywhere in the Highlands.
> Why should we wait for the setting up of legislation to effect behaviour change? Can we not just accept present advice which is not over demanding anyway?



Of course they need shut it down. You don't expect locals to stick to it do you?

What will happen in Scotland will be precisely what happened in Italy where locals will be rightly saying don't come to our area. They will then say don't come to are our area as it spreads the virus. This is partially wrong. The virus is already in the area. Any local that goes out will be spreading it. Some locals will turn their back the other way and then say right well as it's such a nice area I'm going to be travelling 5 miles to x, 10 miles to y and 20 miles to z. Spread, spread, spread.

This is exactly what happened in Italy and it will happen in the Scottish highlands, Cornwall, the peak district, Snowdonia, all sorts of other rural areas. The rural cases the last week are starting to ramp up.


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Ah, I did wonder.
> 
> Well done, you are certainly doing your bit.
> 
> Frustrating to see others not doing the same in lots of ways, not just with caravans.



My folks are shutting down, as are most others. Plenty of boots open this morning and cars being loaded.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I'm understanding the general self-isolating in a caravan/camper arguments, but I'm not sure what point you're making here sorry.


That I’d come into less Human contact going away in the van locally than walking to the local shop. It’s a moot point cos am not going anywhere now!


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

I think I'll start my morning bike commute to the home office tomorrow. Still in shock TBH, but I can get out and away from anyone without touching gates..didn't think of that until I read it.


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## Brandane (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> The Scottish government shouldn't have to officially shut down anything, the whole tourism industry in the Highlands is already almost totally shut down, it is simply impractical to attempt to close beaches here. I'm unaware of any massed gatherings anywhere in the Highlands.
> Why should we wait for the setting up of legislation to effect behaviour change? Can we not just accept present advice which is not over demanding anyway?


It would seem that people in our area are incapable of taking heed of advice being given. Time to get the big stick out and close car parks, close roads etc. to stop the selfish 'stards traveling. Link....Local paper report from yesterday.


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> That I’d come into less Human contact going away in the van locally than walking to the local shop. It’s a moot point cos am not going anywhere now!


Isn't it the case that you'd be walking to the local shop _and_ going away in the van though?


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> The Scottish government shouldn't have to officially shut down anything, the whole tourism industry in the Highlands is already almost totally shut down, it is simply impractical to attempt to close beaches here. I'm unaware of any massed gatherings anywhere in the Highlands.
> Why should we wait for the setting up of legislation to effect behaviour change? Can we not just accept present advice which is not over demanding anyway?


Well Glen Coe was a ‘massed gathering’ of sorts.
Apart from Mohos, (and this may not be a scottish issue), but Skegness, Whistable, Llanberris pass and am certain many other places were flooded with people yesterday with no hint of separation. There are parties going on and some pubs still open. In Whitstable people (from London primarily) were taking carry-outs and sitting outside on closed pub tables, In contrast to the likes of me, @fossyant @Pale Rider in splendid isolation.
Unfortunately to stop the errant behaviour across the board stricter enforcement will be required.
Not the end of the world, but it’s easy to demonise one group bs another. Let’s stop all tourism and travel like elsewhere. Easy to understand, no ambiguity, fair for all.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Isn't it the case that you'd be walking to the local shop _and_ going away in the van though?


No! That’s the point. I have everything at home that’s needed. No shops, van is fuelled. Fill with water at home and go. No other contact required. Much like fossy and pale rider.


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> No! That’s the point. I have everything at home that’s needed. No shops, van is fuelled. Fill with water at home and go. No other contact required. Much like fossy and pale rider.


Ah right, got it  
Unfortunately, as you have said, as was evidenced yesterday and will be again today I'm sure, there's far too many that wont. I think people are treating it like a holiday at the moment.


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## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Not the end of the world, but it’s easy to demonise one group bs another. Let’s stop all tourism and travel like elsewhere. Easy to understand, no ambiguity, fair for all.



What's your view on language used? "unnecessary travel" which was what boris has said is problematic. Non-essential is a phrase government documents tend to prefer. 

One of the bits the government advise on social distancing still refers to is the 'daily commute'. That needs to go quickly.


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## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Ah right, got it
> Unfortunately, as you have said, as was evidenced yesterday and will be again today I'm sure, there's far too many that wont. I think people are treating it like a holiday at the moment.



I think Pale Rider's right, the government will put up with mucking about this weekend and change on Monday. It's a shame those letters to 1.5 million people weren't sent out on Thursday to land on doors Fri/Sat/Mon and getting some people saying to other members of families hey, I've got this letter do you think you guys should be going out as normal?


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Ah right, got it
> Unfortunately, as you have said, as was evidenced yesterday and will be again today I'm sure, there's far too many that wont. I think people are treating it like a holiday at the moment.


Indeed they do. It’s kinda understandable....


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Mar 2020)

My mum is 87. I've stressed to her that she needs to stay at home and not go out.

I keep in touch by phone but have to take her provisions. We've set up an arrangement where I buy the stuff she needs, store it separately for a day or two then take it round and leave it for her.

She really misses the contact as I used to play scrabble once a week and visit most days... she's increasingly saying that she'd rather I called and stayed and is adamant that as she's 87 and had a good life she would rather have my company rather than spend her 'final days', as she puts it, in isolation.

Difficult isn't it? I could pick up the virus and be infectious to her for a week before showing any signs... but it would potentially be too late.


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Indeed they do. It’s kinda understandable....


Kinda, but my thoughts on some of the reasons are for other threads.


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## snorri (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Of course they need shut it down. You don't expect locals to stick to it do you?


As I said it is already shut down, the advice from the Scottish Government has been clear and concise from the start people have accepted that without the need for legislation. The locals are not the problem.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> What's your view on language used? "unnecessary travel" which was what boris has said is problematic. Non-essential is a phrase government documents tend to prefer.
> 
> One of the bits the government advise on social distancing still refers to is the 'daily commute'. That needs to go quickly.


Trouble is ‘non-essential’ or ‘unnecessary travel’ are widely open to interpretation.
It’s not necessarily travel per se that is the issue, it’s the destination and contacts.
I can spend the wekend in the Moho, close to home and have no social contact. I can drive to the seafront to walk the dog after lunch among crowds, I can drive to the beach to watch the sun rise and there is nobody. Two are vey low/no risk, the other potentially high risk. It’s all travel and different to getting the tube or a bus for example to shop.

Better a full lockdown and movement restrictions as per other EU countries.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> As I said it is already shut down, the advice from the Scottish Government has been clear and concise from the start people have accepted that without the need for legislation. The locals are not the problem.


No, and for the situation in Scotland and other temote areas etc. I agree.


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Better a full lockdown and movement restrictions as per other EU countries.


Absolutely and it'll come I'm sure of it. 
Our local MP has been putting out messages for people not to come down here, not to use their holiday homes etc. You may be off work, but you're not on farking holiday, he didn't say the last bit, perhaps he should have.


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Keep your spirits up everyone


View: https://twitter.com/MarieAnnUK/status/1241620852392824839?s=20


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Absolutely and it'll come I'm sure of it.
> Our local MP has been putting out messages for people not to come down here, not to use their holiday homes etc. You may be off work, but you're not on farking holiday, he didn't say the last bit, perhaps he should have.


I think clarity and simple unambiguous orders are what are now required. The public bought the ‘get Brexit done’ schitt...

Anyhow, as my breathing is now getting a bit laboured, my throat is becoming sore, and my fever prevaila I may have to travel to a hopital. In other news, the Whip was schitting blood this morning and has been rushed to the vet...essential travel eh :-/


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Keep your spirits up everyone
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/MarieAnnUK/status/1241620852392824839?s=20



Feckin’ brilliant!!


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## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Anyhow, as my breathing is now getting a bit laboured, my throat is becoming sore, and my fever prevaila I may have to travel to a hopital. In other news, the Whip was schitting blood this morning and has been rushed to the vet...essential travel eh :-/


Oooof, take care!


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## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I think clarity and simple unambiguous orders are what are now required. The public bought the ‘get Brexit done’ schitt...
> 
> Anyhow, as my breathing is now getting a bit laboured, my throat is becoming sore, and my fever prevaila I may have to travel to a hopital. In other news, the Whip was schitting blood this morning and has been rushed to the vet...essential travel eh :-/


Hugs, Fabbers.....all the best to you, Wimpers and Basil.


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## Archie_tect (22 Mar 2020)

Lots of fluids [and cake obviously].


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## gavroche (22 Mar 2020)

I have just spoken to my brother in France on messenger and when I mentioned I was about to go for a ride after the call, he strongly advised me not to do it as the virus can be transmitted in the air as well, without anyone being there. That is why all cycling, running activities are now forbidden in France too. Even going in your own garden is not recommended either. In his case, him and his wife are just staying inside their house and only go out for essential provisions like milk and bread, but only one of them is allowed to do so. 
So, should we stop cycling all together for the time being? I am inclined to follow their lead.


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## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2020)

Everywhere I look, I see stupid people.

The kids playpark outside my front window - up to a dozen kids at a time playing whilst their mothers sit together chatting.
The alcoholic across the road had a party last night until the wee sma' hours - loads of folk coming and going, dancing around outside.
My next door neighbour, a frail old woman with a chest condition has had an open house policy all the time we've lived here and it hasn't changed. There's been dozens of people coming and going all week. Right now they're all sitting outside together celebrating Mother's Day. Her extended family from Northern Ireland were over to visit through the week.


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## Mo1959 (22 Mar 2020)

A guy I used to work with in the prison service who I thought was reasonably intelligent has just posted this comment on his Facebook page! What hope is there 😢


Of course it is a load of shoot 166,000 deaths since January no one notices from regular flu a few thousand from this bullshit the western world shuts down .... is it me or is it a test from China to see how we cope


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## snorri (22 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> So, should we stop cycling all together for the time being? I am inclined to follow their lead.


The views of your brother conflict with the views of the medical authorities in the UK, are his views shared by the medics in France?


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## gavroche (22 Mar 2020)

Apparently, President Macron has told Boris to use stricter measures or France will close its borders with the UK by Friday.


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## gavroche (22 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> The views of your brother conflict with the views of the medical authorities in the UK, are his views shared by the medics in France?


Yes, it is a recommendation from a French doctor who was in China when it all started, so he has first hand experience of it.


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

School's closed, working from home, HOLIDAY!

'Disaster waiting to happen': visitors flock to Skegness

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...egness?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard


Murderers.


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## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> I have just spoken to my brother in France on messenger and when I mentioned I was about to go for a ride after the call, he strongly advised me not to do it as the virus can be transmitted in the air as well, without anyone being there. That is why all cycling, running activities are now forbidden in France too. Even going in your own garden is not recommended either. In his case, him and his wife are just staying inside their house and only go out for essential provisions like milk and bread, but only one of them is allowed to do so.
> So, should we stop cycling all together for the time being? I am inclined to follow their lead.


As has been said, if you are riding on your own and keep away from others by at least 2m, you are fine. The virus won’t hang about in the air, as it’s transferred by droplets but also can persist on surfaces. Chris Whitty was on 5 live last week saying it is ok to go outside and exercise, just don’t congregate with other people.


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## PK99 (22 Mar 2020)

For the 32 years wehave lived here, we have had milk delivered. Now 3 days a week, always in glass bottles. Some time ago, the local guy became part of a large on-line group delivering a wide range of food and household items

More expensive than the supermarket - but we not only liked the convenience but saw it a social service for the significant number of elderly folk locally. We have only ever ordered milk, but our little order helped keep the business viable.

We are currently in domestic quarantine. 

I've just been online and ordered, for delivery tomorrow, some fresh items AND toilet rolls.

They are not accepting new customers!


----------



## PK99 (22 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Everywhere I look, I see stupid people.
> 
> The kids playpark outside my front window - up to a dozen kids at a time playing whilst their mothers sit together chatting.
> The alcoholic across the road had a party last night until the wee sma' hours - loads of folk coming and going, dancing around outside.
> My next door neighbour, a frail old woman with a chest condition has had an open house policy all the time we've lived here and it hasn't changed. There's been dozens of people coming and going all week. Right now they're all sitting outside together celebrating Mother's Day. Her extended family from Northern Ireland were over to visit through the week.



I begin to see the benefits of the Chinese facial recognition cameras, tracking and social/legal sanction against such twunts.


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

From Ian Blackford MP

Thank you to everyone who has contacted me over the coming days regarding Covid-19 and in particular regarding tourists coming to The Highlands. I can only apologise that the volume of messages are going to make it difficult for me and my staff to respond to the volume of correspondence in the short term. We had for example many hundreds of emails yesterday and I do want to thank all who have got in touch with me and to thank my staff for managing the volume of correspondence. 

Now to the substance, requests to the public not to come to the Highlands are not working and we need to move to take firmer action. The emergency powers legislation comes in front of Westminster tomorrow. I will be calling on the UK and Scottish Government to take a number of steps. Shut down all accommodation providers including hotels, guest houses, bed and breakfast accommodation, holiday rental properties and the right for tourist camper vans to come to the Highlands and Islands except for those on essential working engagements that need accommodation. All camping and caravan parks to be shut to tourists, all ski resorts that are currently attracting significant numbers and any tourist destinations to be closed. The Jacobite train from Fort William to Mallaig as one example must be closed.

I need to call out examples of completely unacceptable behaviour. A spokesperson for Sykes who arrange holiday rental accommodation, wrote to me yesterday the following:

“Given concerns surrounding the current outbreak, it is understandable that people would want to arrange private accommodation in more remote locations to distance themselves from larger towns and cities. 

“As latest Government guidance does not prohibit travel in the UK, we are continuing to provide a service for customers and property owners.”

This I have to say is the height of irresponsibility. This company are actively encouraging people to come to the Highlands risking the potential spread of Covid-19 that would threaten our communities and put pressure on the health services in remote and rural areas. We are not like a city where you can travel to the next hospital if one is already under pressure. If you live in the north of Skye you will be 135 miles to your nearest general hospital. Skyes are not alone. For example Cottages dot com are forcing home owners to accept bookings.

As there is a lack of an ability to accept responsibility we need to take action to force providers to shut down. 

My message to tourists is in the Highlands we are renown for the welcome we provide. Once we have defeated this virus we will of course welcome you. For those visiting the Highlands just now, please leave. Please go home. For anyone thinking of coming to the Highlands just don’t.


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## All uphill (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I suspect I will get one of the letters.
> 
> If it's as outlined in this story, it will order me to stop in and have no physical contact with anyone for 12 weeks.
> 
> ...


CC will be more important than ever for many of us.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

All Caravan and Motorhome Club sites closed until June 30th.


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## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2020)

View: https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1241135502914437121


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

We've just packed up. Wife not happy but 19 year old son being an ar$e and took 90 minutes in the bloody shower, so we went out for an hours walk, packed up, locked up and are on way home. It's my fault again. Most folk have packed up... ffs.


----------



## C R (22 Mar 2020)

It is abundantly clear that asking people to do what is needed is not working. The scenes yesterday in coastal towns and other tourist destination are an embarrassment, and swift measures are needed to get people to follow the social distancing requests.

An example in our street. There's a family with two sons, either side of 20 living at home. Yesterday afternoon there were several cars around, and they seemed to be having some sort of party. This should be an obvious no no in the current situation, specially as the mother is a nurse. Unless there are clear guidelines and enforcement, social distancing will fail. I fear it probably already has.


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## gavroche (22 Mar 2020)

Same here. Yesterday, Conwy, LLanberis and Anglesey were packed with tourists. What is wrong with people? Locals have even put signs on their cars that say " Go home " . Of course, tourists are very welcome in normal circumstances, but, obviously, now is not the time.
So, we really need the government to step up and order a lock down to stop those idiots.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Mar 2020)

Do any of you know if i'll receive a 'stay at home for 12 weeks' letter? i've heard some cancer and former cancer patients will be told to stay inside. Will i be ok seeing as i had my cancer 12 and a half years ago. This is a serious question as i don't think i could not leave my flat for 12 long weeks!!


----------



## aferris2 (22 Mar 2020)

We have been in Australia for just over 6 months now. We still have just over 5 months before we have a home to come back to in the UK. Western Australia (where we are now) has effectively closed its borders with the neighbouring states (14 days self isolation is required at a named address to get through) so we aren't moving out of WA any time soon. Authorities state non essential travel should stop immediately. We could probably get away with touring around WA for a while (even though we shouldn't) but it seems likely that further restrictions will be made sooner rather than later, so the decision has been made to stop now.
Not sure what we are going to do. We have to sell the campervan. Probably look at renting somewhere here if we can. For the moment Australia seems a better place to be than England right now. Things do change though so we may be changing our plans again if it gets worse here.
Tomorrow we start house hunting.


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## MontyVeda (22 Mar 2020)

Well apart from the first hour and a half... that's the quietest Sunday I've ever seen in Aldi. Got sent home 3 hours early 

After the best part of a fortnight, I expect many people have done enough shopping and are now holed up indoors. We might even have some toilet roll left by closing time!


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## pawl (22 Mar 2020)

rich p said:


> Have you ever been?





snorri said:


> The Scottish government shouldn't have to officially shut down anything, the whole tourism industry in the Highlands is already almost totally shut down, it is simply impractical to attempt to close beaches here. I'm unaware of any massed gatherings anywhere in the Highlands.
> Why should we wait for the setting up of legislation to effect behaviour change? Can we not just accept present advice which is not over demanding anyway?




The problem is not every person in this country is as sensible as you. Shut down or not there will still visit.


----------



## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Well apart from the first hour and a half... that's the quietest Sunday I've ever seen in Aldi. Got sent home 3 hours early
> 
> After the best part of a fortnight, I expect many people have done enough shopping and are now holed up indoors. We might even have some toilet roll left by closing time!



Everyone's in the parks apparently. National Parks. Country parks. Parks. Things that look like parks. Bits of grass. That's what is being reported.


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## Mo1959 (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Everyone's in the parks apparently. National Parks. Country parks. Parks. Things that look like parks. Bits of grass. That's what is being reported.


I’m sitting here longing for a walk on a beautiful day. Makes me sick hearing of so many flaunting the guidelines.


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## snorri (22 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> This is a serious question as i don't think i could not leave my flat for 12 long weeks!!


Hang in there Accy, I feel certain you'll find yourself new indoor activities to help spend the time, should that become neccessary.


----------



## pawl (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Of course they need shut it down. You don't expect locals to stick to it do you?
> 
> What will happen in Scotland will be precisely what happened in Italy where locals will be rightly saying don't come to our area. They will then say don't come to are our area as it spreads the virus. This is partially wrong. The virus is already in the area. Any local that goes out will be spreading it. Some locals will turn their back the other way and then say right well as it's such a nice area I'm going to be travelling 5 miles to x, 10 miles to y and 20 miles to z. Spread, spread, spread.
> 
> This is exactly what happened in Italy and it will happen in the Scottish highlands, Cornwall, the peak district, Snowdonia, all sorts of other rural areas. The rural cases the last week are starting to ramp up.



Not a great fan of Nicola Sturgeon.Just watching her report on Sky news Giving good advice Hope people living south of the Scottish border listens to her sound advice.


----------



## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Well apart from the first hour and a half... that's the quietest Sunday I've ever seen in Aldi. Got sent home 3 hours early
> 
> After the best part of a fortnight, I expect many people have done enough shopping and are now holed up indoors. We might even have some toilet roll left by closing time!


Just got back from Aldi and Morrisons. Never seen either store so quiet on a Sunday, in fact it's probably not far off the quietest I've seen them ever. Morrisons was pretty well stocked, considering where they were, really quite impressive. Aldis was amazing, aside from a few bits, pasta for example, they were prety much packed to the rafters, never seen so much fruit and veg in there, just hope people buy it now and it doesn't go off. 
I mentioned it to the checkout op and I'll say the same to you, thank you, you've all worked your bollocks off to pull this round!


----------



## pawl (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Ah right, got it
> Unfortunately, as you have said, as was evidenced yesterday and will be again today I'm sure, there's far too many that wont. I think people are treating it like a holiday at the moment.



Hope they survive and there friends and family survive to enjoy future holidays.Prats


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## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Not a great fan of Nicola Sturgeon.Just watching her report on Sky news Giving good advice Hope people living south of the Scottish border listens to her sound advice.



I'm hearing that the peak district is rammed. Snowdonia. Everywhere.

I know perfectly well that some locals in the peak district will be out and about as normal. There will be the snorris of the world more locally too and in the highlands. It's not a personal point about Scottish people in the highlands, I stand by the comments because at 10am this morning when I wrote them I had not been informed of what was going on on snowden, peak district and all sorts of other places. I think saying to tourists is fine, but you also have to have a very firm line with locals. 

The bit I worry about is the interhouse hold mixing and within family mixing.


----------



## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Just got back from Aldi and Morrisons. Never seen either store so quiet on a Sunday, in fact it's probably not far off the quietest I've seen them ever. Morrisons was pretty well stocked, considering where they were, really quite impressive. Aldis was amazing, aside from a few bits, pasta for example, they were prety much packed to the rafters, never seen so much fruit and veg in there, just hope people buy it now and it doesn't go off.
> I mentioned it to the checkout op and I'll say the same to you, thank you, you've all worked your bollocks off to pull this round!



As someone that used to work in a supermarket that's absolutely terrifying hearing how quiet it is. It usually means that everyone's out in the backgarden having bbqs and parties and in parks. Everything today suggests that's the case .


----------



## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> As someone that used to work in a supermarket that's absolutely terrifying hearing how quiet it is. It usually means that everyone's out in the backgarden having bbqs and parties and in parks. Everything today suggests that's the case .


Should have mentioned, I have never, and I mean never, seen as many people on bikes round here as I did today.


----------



## tom73 (22 Mar 2020)

You may well be right


----------



## marinyork (22 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> I’m sitting here longing for a walk on a beautiful day. Makes me sick hearing of so many flaunting the guidelines.



Can you go for a walk on your own later? 5pm, 6pm, 7pm? I was going to go out for a walk alone, but I've cancelled it and going later.


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## Mo1959 (22 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Can you go for a walk on your own later? 5pm, 6pm, 7pm? I was going to go out for a walk alone, but I've cancelled it and going later.


Probably, as I think it should be quieter then. I was shocked at my local trail on Friday. Several large groups, including some elderly all in close proximity and strung across the path. You couldn’t avoid passing them within inches.


----------



## Unkraut (22 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I mentioned it to the checkout op and I'll say the same to you, thank you, you've all worked your bollocks off to pull this round!


Similar thought has occurred to me regarding the supermarket staff carrying on as usual. Next time I am in, probably tomorrow, I think I shall echo your sentiments, I sure they would appreciate some gratitude. Providing of course I can find the relevant German vocabulary.


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
Oh well....


----------



## postman (22 Mar 2020)

We were in Edinburgh last summer,due to some toxic material being found in or near a greenhouse,the whole park was closed.Think it's about time parks were closed.Sorry to say some people are not taking this seriously enough.


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2020)

All the best @Fab Foodie


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Shitballs. Hang in there, we'll be thinking of you. Advice from my uncle who has it: 1000mg paracetamol every 4hrs, don't try and tough it out. Monitor O2sat with mobile phone if you can, seek help if it suddenly drops. He's coming out the other side after a week or so with it.


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Shitballs. Hang in there, we'll be thinking of you. Advice from my uncle who has it: 1000mg paracetamol every 4hrs, don't try and tough it out. Monitor O2sat with mobile phone if you can, seek help if it suddenly drops. He's coming out the other side after a week or so with it.


Good news!


----------



## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Sounds very sensible advice 

Hope you get better soon Fabbers......we are thinking of you.


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Wife just showed me a picture of Matlock Bath taken today. It looks like a normal spring weekend, full of bikers and families out in the sunshine.

These people are suicidal, homicidal maniacs.

Shame on these people, shame on our government and shame on anyone who voted for them. You knew. You knew.


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Sounds very sensible advice
> 
> Hope you get better soon Fabbers......we are thinking of you.


Ta! How are you?


----------



## Salty seadog (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....



Dang. Hard news. Thinking of you and wimps.


----------



## C R (22 Mar 2020)

@Fab Foodie, hoping for the best in here, take care of yourself.


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Good news!


It is, and I don't want to worry you, just make sure you take it seriously but his wife was admitted to ICU by virtue of the fact that he was monitoring her O2sat more frequently than the respiratory doctors advised and he has a friend who is a consultant. So if you do feel yourself worsening, please get help, get someone to make a fuss on your behalf, do take it seriously.

All the best.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

@Hill Wimp is not taking any chances....


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## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ta! How are you?


Seem to have shaken it off, thanks - I think it was probably a cold. Slight fever and sore throat - no breathing problems - but all seems to have gone. Part of me is relieved but if I'm going to get it, I'd like to have it now. Good job Dr Gravel is staying with us


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## screenman (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....



Sorry to hear that Fabbie.


----------



## SteveF (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Best wishes mate...


----------



## StuAff (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


 Hoping for the best Kev.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Hang in there mate


----------



## pawl (22 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Wife just showed me a picture of Matlock Bath taken today. It looks like a normal spring weekend, full of bikers and families out in the sunshine.
> 
> These people are suicidal, homicidal maniacs.
> 
> ...



Yes bring in total lockdown to prevent the dick heads that don’t understand basic instructions and go about endangering them self’ and worse others.once it’ takes place the dick heads can start moaning about the draconian measures


----------



## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Yes bring in total lockdown to prevent the dick heads that don’t understand basic instructions and go about endangering them self’ and worse others.once it’ takes place the dick heads can start moaning about the draconian measures


Yep. They'll be complaining when we have to bring in martial law.


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## Mo1959 (22 Mar 2020)

Can’t say I was very i pressed with Boris. He seems so contradictory. One minute saying getting out in the fresh air, but with social distancing is good, next he’s saying stay at home. No committal on any tougher measures either really.


----------



## Salty seadog (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> @Hill Wimp is not taking any chances....
> 
> View attachment 509761



That's where I left my hat......


----------



## Mugshot (22 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Providing of course I can find the relevant German vocabulary.


Talking of which, what does this say, I can't work it out?


----------



## DaveReading (22 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> the virus can be transmitted in the air as well, without anyone being there



I'd be very interested to see the science, if any, behind that assertion.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Mar 2020)

The roads are packed with cars. The main road a few metres away from me seems busier than its a vehicle every 5 seconds usual. People are not staying in as requested by the government! I went to put some stuff in my bin outside. A woman i know came up to me talking about the virus. I asked her to keep her distance,but whoosh! it went straight over her head and she was almost in my face! It is just not sinking in that anyone can catch it and anyone of any age can die from it!!


----------



## vickster (22 Mar 2020)

DaveReading said:


> I'd be very interested to see the science, if any, behind that assertion.


That was just addressed by the deputy CMO, essentially it's not just floating around where there are no infected people


----------



## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

Talking of measuring oxygen saturation, I’ve just invested in this app for my phone. I have a blood saturation of 99% and a heart rate of 348......if this is true, this might be my last post.....


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## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Talking of measuring oxygen saturation, I’ve just invested in this app for my phone. I have a blood saturation of 99% and a heart rate of 348......if this is true, this might be my last post.....
> View attachment 509803


I would say take these apps with a pinch of salt but that's not going to help your heart rate.


----------



## Rocky (22 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> I would say take these apps with a pinch of salt but that's not going to help your heart rate.


But isn't salt bad for my BP? 



Agreed - my resting pulse is usually 45-50 and I doubt my O2 saturation is 99%. It's usually 97%.


----------



## slowmotion (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


All the very best Fabbers.


----------



## Smokin Joe (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Best of luck mate. I fear you won't be the last of us with a post like that...


----------



## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

Look on the bright side, Fabbers.

After you've got over this in a couple of weeks, you will be like a virus super hero, able to barge around safely shielded by your immunity.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2020)

Was out cycling with my wife for just over an hour today. Her gym has closed and so it’s some way of her keeping some fitness. She’s not a keen cyclist.

About 2 miles out of town a couple (other side if road) asked if we had a pump.She had a puncture. I did but refused on social distancing grounds. I suggested either they both walk back to town or he cycles home and gets their car. They got a bit uppity at this suggestion.

FFS social isolation and distancing. Who goes out on a bike for exercise and doesn’t have a basic toolkit plus pump and ability to fix punctures if heading out into the countryside? It’s doubly important right now. Total self reliance for yourself and your family, when exercising, one way or another.


----------



## bruce1530 (22 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Not a great fan of Nicola Sturgeon.Just watching her report on Sky news Giving good advice Hope people living south of the Scottish border listens to her sound advice.


I have a friend who lives on a Scottish island. For a week, they have been firmly saying to tourists “don’t come”, and if you’re here, consider leaving. That’s the residents saying that, and also the local tourist office!

Tourism is pretty much the only industry in these places.

And it’s not a “we don’t want no steenking incomers bringing no steenking viruses". It’s much more pragmatic. These islands do not have any more than the minimum medical facilities. No A&E, no intensive care. In many cases, no hospital beds at all. A significant illness can mean a helicopter to the mainland, or an overnight wait for the ferry. It’s about the additional load placed on these medical services by a flux of tourists.

I see Calmac and Scot Govt have now banned all but essential traffic on ferries. So local residents and essential business/supplies only.


I worry about the people who flout this advice. On Friday, there was guidance that all pubs and restaurants should close immediately. Most establishments followed this advice. But one of our less salubrious locals thought “If I have to close, all this beer will go to waste”, and stayed open Friday and Saturday with a “Pound a pint until it’s all gone” party. And it was busier than it has ever been. Don’t know who’s dafter - the landlord or the pond life who crowded in.


----------



## winjim (22 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Look on the bright side, Fabbers.
> 
> After you've got over this in a couple of weeks, you will be like a virus super hero, able to barge around safely shielded by your immunity.


We don't know that for certain. I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## HMS_Dave (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....


Sorry to hear that. Best of luck pal.


----------



## GM (22 Mar 2020)

@Fab Foodie all the best fabbers, and how's Basil?


----------



## perplexed (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Trouble is ‘non-essential’ or ‘unnecessary travel’ are widely open to interpretation.
> It’s not necessarily travel per se that is the issue, it’s the destination and contacts.
> I can spend the wekend in the Moho, close to home and have no social contact. I can drive to the seafront to walk the dog after lunch among crowds, I can drive to the beach to watch the sun rise and there is nobody. Two are vey low/no risk, the other potentially high risk. It’s all travel and different to getting the tube or a bus for example to shop.
> 
> Better a full lockdown and movement restrictions as per other EU countries.



Yep. I've just posted on t' other thread that we've binned off a long-planned weeks self catering to the West Country. Although we'd've been pretty solitary (and I'm naturally quite good at being on me tod and wouldn't have gone to crowded places anyway) it is the appropriate thing to do as far as I can see. The agents are allowing cancellations with options to re-book at a later date, so we'll do that instead.


----------



## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> @Fab Foodie all the best fabbers, and how's Basil?


Basil’s OK thanks :-)


----------



## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Doc at 111 says CV19. If breathing gets harder, coughing blood or chest pains call 999
> Oh well....



Hang on in there as best you can.


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Mar 2020)

Keep in touch whenever you can FF... all the best.


----------



## snorri (22 Mar 2020)

Health warning, Nicola gets tough.
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sturgeon-humour-can-help-get-across-coronavirus-message?top


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## Pale Rider (22 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> We don't know that for certain. I wouldn't count on it.



Yes, no harm in saying that at a time we are being, quite properly, advised to be very careful about posting medical advice and its sources.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Mar 2020)

I'm thinking about buying an exercise bike,or even a cross trainer in case we're told that outdoor exercise such as cycling is to be banned. With my local gym being closed for what could be many months i suppose what i'll save on membership might as well go to buying something that'll help me keep fit and healthy. Any recommendations for a decent one,costing maybe £250 to £300 would be appreciated!


----------



## DCLane (22 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm thinking about buying an exercise bike,or even a cross trainer in case we're told that outdoor exercise such as cycling is to be banned. With my local gym being closed for what could be many months i suppose what i'll save on membership might as well go to buying something that'll help me keep fit and healthy. Any recommendations for a decent one,costing maybe £250 to £300 would be appreciated!


Just get a turbo trainer Accy - attach your bike to it and fold away when not in use. A budget one's fine and lots of people have upgraded to smart turbo's so there's lots for sale cheaply on Gumtree / eBay / Facebook / Shpock / etc.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> Just get a turbo trainer Accy - attach your bike to it and fold away when not in use. A budget one's fine and lots of people have upgraded to smart turbo's so there's lots for sale cheaply on Gumtree / eBay / Facebook / Shpock / etc.


I bought one a few years ago,but sold it as it was ok,but a bit noisy.


----------



## cyberknight (23 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> Just get a turbo trainer Accy - attach your bike to it and fold away when not in use. A budget one's fine and lots of people have upgraded to smart turbo's so there's lots for sale cheaply on Gumtree / eBay / Facebook / Shpock / etc.


I use a basic turbo cost me £40 second hand off flea bay, i watch you tube training videos that have structured intervals , if the music they use is not your choice you can always mute it and play something else.
plenty to choose from 
If you do get a turbo i would get a turbo tyre as i found normal tyres wear quick and leave rubber bits everywhere

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzRs6IWzRso


----------



## cyberknight (23 Mar 2020)

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bi...sential-turbo-trainer-tyre-700x23-119333.html


----------



## Electric_Andy (23 Mar 2020)

I have my son at home and trying to work from home whilst giving a 7-year old some schooling. He is going to his mum's on Thursday so we both have to self isolate until then, especially becasue his mum's partner is very high risk. 

What's more worrying is that I am a key worker (nhs but not front line). I may be called upon to be redeployed in the hospital which I don't mind doing but I have no child care. If my son goes to school for care (therefore mixing with others) it will mean he can't go and see his mum. I'm not getting much work through, so trying to do all I can from home to justify my job really. Also I don't want to send my son to a strange school from 08:30 - 17:30 every day. I'm just worried for him more than anything


----------



## fossyant (23 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I bought one a few years ago,but sold it as it was ok,but a bit noisy.



The newer turbo's are much quieter. The older ones with a fan were noisy.


----------



## vickster (23 Mar 2020)

If it's noisy, just turn the TV or music up


----------



## fossyant (23 Mar 2020)

Virtual commute this am. Toast and coffee on the ride. Not easy eating toast when going up hill.


----------



## gbb (23 Mar 2020)

gbb said:


> Tough but right decision made just now, we are self isolating.
> I've had a cough and head cold and occasional sneezing for maybe a month now so coughing is making people nervous I should think. Temps are normalish.
> My sons just informed us his wife suddenly developed a sharp dry cough and temperature...not terrible but nevertheless...
> Shes been sent home immediately.
> ...


So, my cold and cough has cleared, none of the other family members have had problems, their throats and cough have cleared too.
Rang work to ask if the 7 day rule applies, maybe come back Weds after 1 week off. 
No take 14 days was the answer.
What about pay I asked, I know theres some confusion at work with the suddenness of it all...no, as far as they know, I'm salaried, full pay.
I suggested, ok, if you want, I will go halves, book a week holiday, you pay the other week, i dont see the need for the company to pick up the whole bill.
Looks like they are taking g it seriously, not putting their operational needs first. Respect to them for that.


----------



## Slioch (23 Mar 2020)

Are you planning world domination from your garden shed? Got any missile launchers tucked away in there behind the chicken wire?


----------



## Rezillo (23 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Virtual commute this am. Toast and coffee on the ride. Not easy eating toast when going up hill.
> View attachment 509920



Aaaargghh! You have my mug! It's like seeing an old friend. I broke mine and since then have only seen them at silly prices used. I do still have its partner On The Railways, albeit a bit chipped.


----------



## snorri (23 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Virtual commute this am. Toast and coffee on the ride. Not easy eating toast when going up hill.



I can see you experienced severe congestion on your morning commute.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

No paracetamol now! I ran out yesterday. I went to 4 different shops,but unfortunately the selfish runts have bought all the stocks up! They are like locusts! Absolute horrible,selfish gits!


----------



## fossyant (23 Mar 2020)

Rezillo said:


> Aaaargghh! You have my mug! It's like seeing an old friend. I broke mine and since then have only seen them at silly prices used. I do still have its partner On The Railways, albeit a bit chipped.



My mug has a chip in it. I also have a 'Raleigh Chopper mug', and a 'Five things I like about my bike'....'riding bikes, reading about bikes, talking about bikes, internet forums about bikes, and bacon'.


----------



## fossyant (23 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> I can see you experienced severe congestion on your morning commute.



There were over 1,600 cyclists on Innsbruck and another 1,600 or so over in Watopia. Oh plus a few runners.


----------



## Rezillo (23 Mar 2020)

Today's "I never knew that" moment, well, for me anyway.


View: https://twitter.com/melibeus1/status/1241314210946125824


and some explanation:

http://www.hellenicaworld.com/Greece/Technology/en/UnderWater.html


----------



## Unkraut (23 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Talking of which, what does this say, I can't work it out?
> 
> View attachment 509783


It says the Germans do have a sense of humour after all!


----------



## C R (23 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> It says the Germans do have a sense of humour after all!


And not afraid to deploy it to good use, can you imagine the amount of twisted knickers in the UK if a sign like that was displayed in public?


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## Unkraut (23 Mar 2020)

I think the Germans are definitely less prudish for want of a better term than the British.


----------



## vickster (23 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I think the Germans are definitely less prudish for want of a better term than the British.


I'm sure...I seem to remember on Eurotrash - all the Germans had a dungeon in their basements


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (23 Mar 2020)

Working from home setup. Two hand cleansers (alcohol and soap free). Every time someone mentions washing hands I feel compelled to join in 

Mickey Mouse ears are for the video conferencing calls, about 4 or 5 a day.


----------



## snorri (23 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> I've just heard that one north highland caravan site opened on schedule yesterday, no mention of any Covid 19 on the site website.
> Looking at the Caravan Club website again no significant mention of Covid-19
> https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/
> Strongly worded but polite message sent to CC HQ.


I've had a reply from the Caravan club, they thanked me for writing and tell me they closed their sites yesterday(Sunday) and are in the process of closing down their "Certified Locations". I see they have given greater prominence to Covid-19 on their website as well .


----------



## winjim (23 Mar 2020)

My LBS is still open but they've put infection control measures in place and to prevent unfair stockpiling they've restricted sales to a maximum of three bikes per customer.


----------



## GM (23 Mar 2020)

Why is it that every time I hear the word Covid 19, I expect the next word to be West Ham 0


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (23 Mar 2020)

The wife and I thought it would be wise to discuss arrangements for if the worst happens. I now know her thoughts on burial and the service she wants. My only stipulation is I want six Falkirk FC players to be cord bearers so they can let me down one last time.


----------



## postman (23 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> The wife and I thought it would be wise to discuss arrangements for if the worst happens. I now know her thoughts on burial and the service she wants. My only stipulation is I want six Falkirk FC players to be cord bearers so they can let me down one last time.




Has the supporters shop got any Falkirk Goalkeeper gloves left.I want a pair.Then i won't catch anything.


----------



## postman (23 Mar 2020)

Apart from shopping,i am staying away from people.Solo litter picking and my word the garden is getting a right going over.It has never been this far forward at this time of year.But plans for a patio and raised beds has been put on hold,don't want anyone coming near us.


----------



## Smokin Joe (23 Mar 2020)

GM said:


> Why is it that every time I hear the word Covid 19, I expect the next word to be West Ham 0


Ooooh, nasty!


----------



## Mugshot (23 Mar 2020)

Words fail me, apparently this was over a pack of super noodles 


View: https://twitter.com/ChrisTheLewis/status/1241677377358438400?s=20


----------



## Dayvo (23 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ha! But no toilet roll in sight :-)



No toilet paper!

Well, you know where to find it! 😳👩🏿‍🦲


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NSsXU4TCTVY


----------



## Proto (23 Mar 2020)

Just had a delivery of dog food (12kg Canagan dry and a dozen tins). Sadly, can’t get anyone to deliver human food. 🙁


----------



## Deafie (23 Mar 2020)

Proto said:


> Just had a delivery of dog food (12kg Canagan dry and a dozen tins). Sadly, can’t get anyone to deliver human food. 🙁


I hope you have plenty of hot sauce


----------



## Dave7 (23 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> No paracetamol now! I ran out yesterday. I went to 4 different shops,but unfortunately the selfish runts have bought all the stocks up! They are like locusts! Absolute horrible,selfish gits!


Seriously???
Aldi had supplies on Friday (dont know about today) and a mate told me his local chemist had supplies.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (23 Mar 2020)

This 2m gap from other people, they did mean 2 miles didn't they?


----------



## Smokin Joe (23 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Words fail me, apparently this was over a pack of super noodles
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ChrisTheLewis/status/1241677377358438400?s=20



That looks staged to me.


----------



## Mugshot (23 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> That looks staged to me.


----------



## Archie_tect (23 Mar 2020)

Sitting at my computer I've been keeping an eye on the neighbour's two teenage sons painting their fence. It's about 50m long and they carefully set up their paint cans on a sheet on the grass at one end by the gate, then proceeded to leave the cans in place as they started painting - they must have walked miles to dip their brushes in the paint each time leaving a progressively browner stripe down the grass as the day's gone by. I could've suggested a couple of improvements to their plan but I don't like to intrude... they are doing their best, bless 'em.


----------



## Beebo (23 Mar 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> That looks staged to me.


The shelves full of fresh produce is a dead give away. 😀


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Seriously???
> Aldi had supplies on Friday (dont know about today) and a mate told me his local chemist had supplies.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...aracetamol-supermarkets-chemists-run-out.html


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

Just got back from a bike ride. I was out during the rush hour and would say the traffic was like on a bank holiday,not a work day.

If we're ordered to keep inside and to only go out if necessary,who's going to police it?


----------



## screenman (23 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from a bike ride. I was out during the rush hour and would say the traffic was like on a bank holiday,not a work day.
> 
> If we're ordered to keep inside and to only go out if necessary,who's going to police it?



We should not need policing, respect for other humans should be enough.


----------



## Landsurfer (23 Mar 2020)

Cycling at Night .... it's the new "Black" ...................


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

screenman said:


> We should not need policing, respect for other humans should be enough.


I think the order will be ignored by quite a lot. Not me i hasten to add. Just like speed limits are ignored.


----------



## PK99 (23 Mar 2020)

Just had a 4 way Video WattsApp chat with friends 3 doors up - complete with cuppas!


----------



## winjim (23 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just got back from a bike ride. I was out during the rush hour and would say the traffic was like on a bank holiday,not a work day.
> 
> If we're ordered to keep inside and to only go out if necessary,who's going to police it?


If everyone behaves themselves, the police. If people carry on being dicks, the army.


----------



## gbb (23 Mar 2020)

Did anyone else see this coming ? (the food issue in particular)

I cannot say I did but...
As it seemed to start kicking off in Italy (early Feb ?), it occured to me...its going to come at some stage which prompted me to look at the food cupboards and start stocking up a bit, so late Feb, very early March I started buying long life milk, extra canned foods, a bit in the freezer, dog food, etc etc. Also stocked up on Paracetamol and Ibrufen, I use them very regularly for my OA.

My cupboards were well stocked waaaay ahead of the panic , theres been no problem for us, despite my wife scoffing a bit at first.
Did the same for my 90 yo mum and our son, partner and grandkids (who live on a tight budget)

Panic buying ?...no. Thinking a few weeks ahead...definately.


----------



## nickyboy (23 Mar 2020)

gbb said:


> Did anyone else see this coming ? (the food issue in particular)
> 
> I cannot say I did but...
> As it seemed to start kicking off in Italy (early Feb ?), it occured to me...its going to come at some stage which prompted me to look at the food cupboards and start stocking up a bit, so late Feb, very early March I started buying long life milk, extra canned foods, a bit in the freezer, dog food, etc etc. Also stocked up on Paracetamol and Ibrufen, I use them very regularly for my OA.
> ...


Yup, bought food, sanitizer, gloves, masks etc weeks ago. I do a lot of business in Far East and my friends there all recommended to do this in early February. I'm not being smug. If you look back at my posts in the main thread I've been saying it's serious since late January


----------



## sleuthey (23 Mar 2020)

Well I was following the govt advice but it’s ok, Iceland say I should go to the shops so off I go:


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Seriously???
> Aldi had supplies on Friday (dont know about today) and a mate told me his local chemist had supplies.


I eventually found some in one store. Not their own brand though. A well known,but twice as much brand,costing summat like 4 quid!!! I wandered around thinking about it and do I really need them etc,then I saw some chocolate and orange Mini Magnums on offer at half price. I decided to buy the Magnums rather than the painkillers,as they'll give me more pleasure and what's a bit of pain every now and then I thought!


----------



## postman (23 Mar 2020)

Even before Boris came on telly at 8-30.I had spoken with my three oldest mates.Jack retired Postie ,i am not coming to see you Jack,i agree Bob the kids have told me to keep indoors,health reasons.George just up the street again his son told him at 85 just last week he is vulnerable so no visiting twice a week for seven years ,since his wife died and finally my oldest cycling buddy,his three kids have warned him off of the three he is the frailest.Tomorrow the turbo tyre goes back on and cycling on the lawn plus some weights going to be as fit as a butcher's dog by the time we are let out.Keep safe one and all.


----------



## pawl (23 Mar 2020)

postman said:


> Even before Boris came on telly at 8-30.I had spoken with my three oldest mates.Jack retired Postie ,i am not coming to see you Jack,i agree Bob the kids have told me to keep indoors,health reasons.George just up the street again his son told him at 85 just last week he is vulnerable so no visiting twice a week for seven years ,since his wife died and finally my oldest cycling buddy,his three kids have warned him off of the three he is the frailest.Tomorrow the turbo tyre goes back on and cycling on the lawn plus some weight
> 
> going to be as fit as a butcher's dog by the time we are let out.Keep safe one and all.




Fasten the lawnmower to the back of your bike as you ride round the lawn

Jobs a good un.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Mar 2020)

I had to break the news to my mutt tonight that his favourite tinned food and chews aren't in supply. He seemed saddened,but also seemed to realise we're all in this together!🐶


----------



## Unkraut (23 Mar 2020)

My better half and younger daughter went to New Zealand just before this really got going - no cases in NZ and very few in Germany with little sign of what was to come. Now of course there are all sorts of restrictions and border closures, and countries refusing to allow aircraft to land even for further transit in some cases.

Needless to say a cause for concern, but the latest couple of message confirm that the German foreign office is organising flights to get citizens back from countries where normal transport has been stopped. She's registered for this, the app is dodgy and system clearly overloaded and hopes this has 'taken'. Singapore Airlines she went with has a 7 day wait for answers to e-mails! It will be a real relief to get them back home when that can finally be achieved, although when comparing the two countries at present it is safer to be in NZ which only had 39 cases last time I looked.


----------



## classic33 (23 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> It looks like the first day of dedicated vulnerable shopping time didn't work great at Sainsbury's
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...our-for-vulnerable-people-chaotic-and-crowded
> Tesco sent an email last night announcing a similar initiative, but the article above is not encouraging.
> As a type 1 diabetic I am more vulnerable than some, so have been pondering about using those slots. However, I am middle aged and healthy looking, so I am sure to be looked upon as taking advantage, and possibly attract unkind comments. Anyone else here in the same situation?


I've heart issues, cancer and epilepsy. Only the last is visible, at times. When it's visible it gets me more room than anything else ever would.

All three put me in the at risk group, but there's been nothing said with regards what I'm supposed to do with regards dealing with it because of one of let alone all three conditions. Follow the advice given to everyone else doesn't really help. Last painkiller was given in A&E, eight years ago. Last course of painkillers was 24 years ago, as an inpatient.


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## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

classic33 said:


> I've heart issues, cancer and epilepsy. Only the last is visible, at times. When it's visible it gets me more room than anything else ever would.
> 
> All three put me in the at risk group, but there's been nothing said with regards what I'm supposed to do with regards dealing with it because of one of let alone all three conditions. Follow the advice given to everyone else doesn't really help. Last painkiller was given in A&E, eight years ago. Last course of painkillers was 24 years ago, as an inpatient.


Contact your doctors surgery for advice?


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## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

I live next to one of three main roads leading into the town. I'd say the traffic's about 90% down. It's even quieter than on a Sunday or a bank holiday.


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## C R (24 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I live next to one of three main roads leading into the town. I'd say the traffic's about 90% down. It's even quieter than on a Sunday or a bank holiday.


I can hear the M5 traffic from my back garden, it doesn't sound any quieter than usual,


----------



## perplexed (24 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> I can hear the M5 traffic from my back garden, it doesn't sound any quieter than usual,



My road is a pretty quiet suburban one, but I'm about half a mile as the crow flies from one of the main arterial routes into Sheffield. I opened the bedroom window and noticed that there was a fairly steady 'hum' of traffic.

The photos on Twitter this morning of packed tube trains are not encouraging. This is the issue with the advice surrounding the word 'essential' because it's so woolly. Companies seem to be 'self-identifying' as essential, and there's quite a bit of pi$$ taking going on.


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## C R (24 Mar 2020)

perplexed said:


> My road is a pretty quiet suburban one, but I'm about half a mile as the crow flies from one of the main arterial routes into Sheffield. I opened the bedroom window and noticed that there was a fairly steady 'hum' of traffic.
> 
> The photos on Twitter this morning of packed tube trains are not encouraging. This is the issue with the advice surrounding the word 'essential' because it's so woolly. Companies seem to be 'self-identifying' as essential, and there's quite a bit of pi$$ taking going on it seems.


Yep, my wife's company is one of those. She's finally managed to extract two days of working from home, but it was like pulling hen's teeth.


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## perplexed (24 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Yep, my wife's company is one of those. She's finally managed to extract two days of working from home, but it was like pulling hen's teeth.



I understand. I mentioned on one of the threads last night, that my wife's firm insists on vigorously testing their emergency provision system every few weeks, which involves her ringing in at strange times. 

Last night, absolute deathly, radio silence from them. 

She cannot work from home, so she's had to go in this morning. We're hoping for a bit more clarity, because on the face of it, whilst some of the government advice is clear, it is also full of holes.


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

Out on my bike yesterday i called round to see the bloke who runs the cycling club i was a member of and hopefully i'll be rejoining after this is over. He told me that his lifelong friend and drinking buddy had sadly died the other day. I knew the deceased from my local pub,from when i used to do cycle laps around my local park and he was a 'brisk walker' doing the same laps and because he drove people to and from hospital as a patients transport driver about 10/15 years ago. Harry(the bloke who runs the cycling club) said 'I don't think we'll be allowed to go to his funeral as he died from coronavirus'. I thought that maybe that was just speculation,but obviously i didn't contradict Harry. As i flicked through the local paper online,about 20 minutes ago i saw this...
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....t-coronavirus-death-royal-blackburn-hospital/
I was shocked to read that the bloke who died has actually become the areas first C19 victim! As the paper states,he had underlying health problems. He fell down his stairs about 18 months ago,breaking his arm if i remember rightly. The last time i saw him about 5 weeks ago, he was in the toilet of one of the pubs in town using an inhaler. It was awkward for me as he was clearly in distress,so i just said something like 'I hope you're ok and left thinking that he did not look well at all'!


----------



## PK99 (24 Mar 2020)

Living in the 'burbs on the edge of London there is always a hum or low buzz of City in the background.

Not today!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Mar 2020)

No dog walkers going past in the square today. No kids playing out there. I’m hopeful they are taking it seriously round here.


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## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

The horrible family below me have just gone out shopping. So they're breaking the orders already,as there's more than 2 of them and they're not from the same household! I've also seen 2 'piss heads' from the sheltered accommodation going out for their cider. These nobbers won't be exercising as they don't know the meaning of the word! I've also noticed the MOT place across the road is open. Is there a number we can call to report those who think the order to stay in doesn't apply to them?!


----------



## DCLane (24 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> The horrible family below me have just gone out shopping. So they're breaking the orders already,as there's more than 2 of them and they're not from the same household! I've also seen 2 'piss heads' from the sheltered accommodation going out for their cider. These nobbers won't be exercising as they don't know the meaning of the word! I've also noticed the MOT place across the road is open. Is there a number we can call to report those who think the order to stay in doesn't apply to them?!



A garage can stay open so that's fine.

Leave the others to the police / local authorities.


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## icowden (24 Mar 2020)

Realistically the Police are going to use their powers in areas where people are congregating. They haven't got a magic surveillance system that is going to tell them if people are breaking the rules. It relies on most people being sensible.


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## PK99 (24 Mar 2020)

icowden said:


> Realistically the Police are going to use their powers in areas where people are congregating. *They haven't got a magic surveillance system that is going to tell them if people are breaking the rules*. It relies on most people being sensible.



Unlike China - hence their ability to close down immediately and effectively


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Mar 2020)

Ok, getting used like all to the reduced movement. I’m not one for sitting still. Going to put turbo on patio later. May also set about getting computer out in garden as well.


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> I can hear the M5 traffic from my back garden, it doesn't sound any quieter than usual,


Sadly the traffic has got heavier. It seems that many chose to stay off work,as the rush hour was very quiet,but the 'non essential' journeys by car lot aren't complying!


----------



## fossyant (24 Mar 2020)

Plenty of dog walkers out ! We will do our brisk walk along the canal/TPT later !


----------



## aferris2 (24 Mar 2020)

Update from Australia (WA): current advice from FCO is to return to the UK now. Trouble is most of the stopovers are closed even to transit passengers, and flights are running at about $A20,000 each! Airlines seem very keen to take your money then the flights get cancelled and refunds don't happen (or at least not very quickly). Current advice here is not to travel at all. State borders have been closed and regional restrictions are likely to be introduced fairly soon. We only have about 170 confirmed cases in WA at the moment so it's much better than the UK right now. We're currently in an almost deserted caravan park on the south coast so quite happy here for the moment. Easy social distancing which everyone seems to be observing.


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## Dave7 (24 Mar 2020)

@vickster just to let you know. I spoke to the travel agent (Hays) about our refund. Apparently 4 weeks before we are due to fly ie April 10th Jet2 will automatically start the refund process via Hays. We dont actually need to make a claim.
Pity about the £83 I paid for insurance but a minor problem compared to what many are facing.


----------



## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

My flights to and from Canada have not yet been cancelled but I fully expect them to be or more severe restrictions to be in place!


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

Got my papers through, letter to carry with me confirming my status as a key worker, to produce if challenged.

We're living in a police state now, guys.


----------



## PK99 (24 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> My flights to and from Canada have not yet been cancelled but I fully expect them to be or more severe restrictions to be in place!



When are you scheduled to go?

We have booking for early July but fully expect them to be cancelled.


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## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> When are you scheduled to go?
> 
> We have booking for early July but fully expect them to be cancelled.


6 May. I can cancel as it’s Avios flights but if they cancel I won’t have to pay the fees. Complicated but I also had a one way ticket to Florida on 29 April, that flight has been cancelled (then I was going to Canada) but I can't speak to BA until 72 hours before the 29 April - I'm sure I'll be able to refund all 3 flights on that call


----------



## fossyant (24 Mar 2020)

Brisk walk at lunch. Council still out re-surfacing pavements. 

Still seeing too many old folk out.


----------



## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Brisk walk at lunch. Council still out re-surfacing pavements.
> 
> Still seeing too many old folk out.


Surely, if observing social distancing rules, healthy old folk should be allowed to go for a walk or to the shops (especially if there's no one around to shop for them). My parents are pretty much self isolating but my brother and I live close enough to deliver shopping and they have a good size garden. Not all older folks are in such a position


----------



## cosmicbike (24 Mar 2020)

I have no idea if I have it. Been self isolating since the 18th as my daughter was coughing. For her it seems to have been a bad cold. As of Sunday I have something, figured cold to start with, yesterday the cough started, today woke up with people sat on my chest feeling. So I've opted for 'Quaranteened'.
Still doing daily walk, still staying well away from anyone else.
Strangely I'll now be allowed out to mix with others before I could have done if I had not gotten unwell.


----------



## Dave7 (24 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> 6 May. I can cancel as it’s Avios flights but if they cancel I won’t have to pay the fees. Complicated but I also had a one way ticket to Florida on 29 April, that flight has been cancelled (then I was going to Canada) but I can't speak to BA until 72 hours before the 29 April - I'm sure I'll be able to refund all 3 flights on that call


Yes.....its a fine line. My Bro cancelled with only a deposit paid. He tried to claim a refund but no chance. If he had just waited.


----------



## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Yes.....its a fine line. My Bro cancelled with only a deposit paid. He tried to claim a refund but no chance. If he had just waited.


I only need to cancel 24 hours before so no rush (although I’d quite like my £800 odd back)


----------



## Dave7 (24 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Surely, if observing social distancing rules, healthy old folk should be allowed to go for a walk or to the shops (especially if there's no one around to shop for them). My parents are pretty much self isolating but my brother and I live close enough to deliver shopping and they have a good size garden. Not all older folks are in such a position


We are classed as older (both in our 70s) but blessed with good(ish) health so can look after ourselves. We will be going shopping as long as we are allowed.
Hope your parents have good health.


----------



## Dave7 (24 Mar 2020)

cosmicbike said:


> I have no idea if I have it. Been self isolating since the 18th as my daughter was coughing. For her it seems to have been a bad cold. As of Sunday I have something, figured cold to start with, yesterday the cough started, today woke up with people sat on my chest feeling. So I've opted for 'Quaranteened'.
> Still doing daily walk, still staying well away from anyone else.
> Strangely I'll now be allowed out to mix with others before I could have done if I had not gotten unwell.


Surely not.
If you are not well and think there is a chance you have it then (if I am correct) you MUST self isolate.


----------



## Dave7 (24 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I only need to cancel 24 hours before so no rush (although I’d quite like my £800 odd back)


Yes. 2 grand for us. We had already decided that we are prepared to lose it rather that go.....but as you say it will be nice to get it back


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Surely not.
> If you are not well and think there is a chance you have it then (if I am correct) you MUST self isolate.


I think the point @cosmicbike is making is that if you are actually ill then self-isolation is 7days, compared to 14days if you only live with someone who's ill.


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

Two more of my relatives down with it plus two more probables.

STAY AT HOME.


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

OK, I've just had some really scary news which I'm not going to share, but I just ask PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STAY AT HOME. DON'T MAKE EXCUSES, DON'T TRY AND FIND LOOPHOLES, PLEASE JUST STAY AT HOME.


----------



## cyberknight (24 Mar 2020)

Bit of a dry throat but no other symptoms , more likely to be all the shouting at my teenage lad whos only response is life isn't fair/ ignore/be a little ba****d atm .i dont like shouting but he at the goes out of his way to be annoying constantly phase.


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

Large numbers of people are dying or falling very ill from this virus,yet some f..kwit decides to tell us how her pampered brat threw a strop because her 'favourite takeaways' are to close.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-4-cant-consoled-after-21745382


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## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> We are classed as older (both in our 70s) but blessed with good(ish) health so can look after ourselves. We will be going shopping as long as we are allowed.
> Hope your parents have good health.


Not very, but they aren't on the shielding list


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Large numbers of people are dying or falling very ill from this virus,yet some f..kwit decides to tell us how her pampered brat threw a strop because her 'favourite takeaways' are to close.
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-4-cant-consoled-after-21745382


That's obviously clickbait BS but there is a very real issue regarding kids with, for example, autistic food preferences.


----------



## pawl (24 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Brisk walk at lunch. Council still out re-surfacing pavements.
> 
> Still seeing too many old folk out.



Ageist Not all old folk are not thick like the dick head honey pot visitors at the weekend.If the comment is meant to be humorous then currently it is in bad taste.


----------



## winjim (24 Mar 2020)

cyberknight said:


> Bit of a dry throat but no other symptoms , more likely to be all the shouting at my teenage lad whos only response is life isn't fair/ ignore/be a little ba****d atm .i dont like shouting but he at the goes out of his way to be annoying constantly phase.


Hope it's nothing.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Mar 2020)

Seems like I won't be getting home for a fair while yet as all Indian states have been locked down. 

There was a natioal one-day stay-at-home on Sunday (07:00-21:00), which was apparently a 100% success (in what I have no idea) but with little or no warning it was extended until tomorrow. However, this afternoon it was announced that everyone HAS TO stay indoors until at least March 31st. 

I, and my friends, plus the vast majority of holidaymakers here in Goa, are getting by 'reasonably' well. Take-away meals from a nearby restaurant, plus plenty of fruit and bottled water. 

The local Goans (Catholics) have looked after us well, although local Hindu men and youths, fuelled by fesr, panic and alcohol, 'could' turn against us if the virus (which so far has not arrived in the state) gets a hold. 

Oh well, my tan is good and I'm losing a load of weight. 😉


----------



## Milzy (24 Mar 2020)

Work have now agreed to me been locked down for 80% pay as we're not very busy. 4 of us in total are off for a possible two months. 
However it's alarming that the rest are still working 5 days for only 20% more. It's non essential work. 
Maybe in a few weeks the rest will be forced to go on the Boris 80% scheme.


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

I've heard the government is asking for 250 thousand volunteers to help the NHS and Social Services during this crisis. Have any of you thought about volunteering? I'm toying with the idea,but all i can find on the internet are reports about it,but no info' on who to contact.


----------



## classic33 (24 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've heard the government is asking for 250 thousand volunteers to help the NHS and Social Services during this crisis. Have any of you thought about volunteering? I'm toying with the idea,but all i can find on the internet are reports about it,but no info' on who to contact.


See, 
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/nhs-volunteering.258766/


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

I walked past the 'launderette' i use today. They are now closed till further notice. Fearing this would happen,i did my washing last week. I would've thought such places would've been exempt from shop closure rules as washing your clothes is essential,not non essential. Do any of you know if they can still stay open and maybe the owner has closed through personal choice,or are they're on the government's 'you must close' list?


----------



## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I walked past the 'launderette' i use today. They are now closed till further notice. Fearing this would happen,i did my washing last week. I would've thought such places would've been exempt from shop closure rules as washing your clothes is essential,not non essential. Do any of you know if they can still stay open and maybe the owner has closed through personal choice,or are they're on the government's 'you must close' list?


They don’t have to close but they may have decided to, their prerogative. Or perhaps they have staff in self isolation.
You could hand wash your clothes or go elsewhere?


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> You could hand wash your clothes or go elsewhere?


I have a mini twin tub for small items. It's ok,but heavy woollens,duvet covers etc won't fit in. Anyway,at least i know now they don't have to close,so hopefully some will still be open.


----------



## Pale Rider (24 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> @vickster just to let you know. I spoke to the travel agent (Hays) about our refund. Apparently 4 weeks before we are due to fly ie April 10th Jet2 will automatically start the refund process via Hays. We dont actually need to make a claim.
> Pity about the £83 I paid for insurance but a minor problem compared to what many are facing.



@Dave7

You might like to know Hays is laying off most of their staff.

It's not that they've gone bust, more they are going into suspended animation.

Not sure it will have much impact on your claim, but Hays might take a bit longer to do what they say they are going to do through lack of bodies.

I think you can be confident they will do their best for you.

John and Irene Hays, who still own and run it, have a good reputation around here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51975813


----------



## Nigeyy (25 Mar 2020)

Well, I've been learning how to use a sewing machine. Obviously nowhere near medical grade, but hopefully of some use. I had no elastic so inner tubes cut as strips have new purpose.....


----------



## cyberknight (25 Mar 2020)

cyberknight said:


> Bit of a dry throat but no other symptoms , more likely to be all the shouting at my teenage lad whos only response is life isn't fair/ ignore/be a little ba****d atm .i dont like shouting but he at the goes out of his way to be annoying constantly phase.


pheglm now i dont believe thats a symptom ? dont feel ill just the normal cough up build up overnight , no head ache and not coughing and no temperature.


----------



## Beebo (25 Mar 2020)

Nigeyy said:


> Well, I've been learning how to use a sewing machine. Obviously nowhere near medical grade, but hopefully of some use. I had no elastic so inner tubes cut as strips have new purpose.....
> View attachment 510311


Looks like some kind of bondage gear 🤣


----------



## Dave7 (25 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> @Dave7
> 
> You might like to know Hays is laying off most of their staff.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
TBH I expected that. As its money that we had already budgeted for and spent then we dont mind waiting. So long as they keep us informed eg if they said its going to take another month then thats fine......so long as they dont mess us around.


----------



## C R (25 Mar 2020)

By the way, how are you, @Fab Foodie?


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> By the way, how are you, @Fab Foodie?


Coming out the other side, thanks for asking. If that’s CV19 I have been one of the lucky ones. Will be back at the home office tomorrow 

I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....






I may need to isolate a bit longer....


----------



## Julia9054 (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....


This week’s new skill to be learned is how to dye my own eyelashes.
Feeling thankful that I let my highlights grow out a couple of years ago 
My friend has had to resort to getting her 10 year old to do her roots.


----------



## Rocky (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Coming out the other side, thanks for asking. If that’s CV19 I have been one of the lucky ones. Will be back at the home office tomorrow
> 
> I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....
> 
> ...


Looking good Fabbers. I’m pleased you are on the mend.


----------



## winjim (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Coming out the other side, thanks for asking. If that’s CV19 I have been one of the lucky ones. Will be back at the home office tomorrow
> 
> I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....
> 
> ...


Good to see you up and about.

For a bit more info and a rough estimation of what it can be like, I now have six relatives who have contracted it. This includes one ICU admission (F, 50s), one who should probably have been hospitalised with O2sat <95%, but paramedics wouldn't take him (M, 60s), two with pretty awful symptoms but home care (M,F 60s-70s) and two with relatively mild symptoms resembling flu (M,F 40s). In fact my sister says that she maybe just had something else, but without testing we can't be sure.

So from this cohort, the older ones have had it worst, but the ICU admission was of a relatively young woman. Interpret as you will.

STAY AT HOME


----------



## PK99 (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Coming out the other side, thanks for asking. If that’s CV19 I have been one of the lucky ones. Will be back at the home office tomorrow
> 
> I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....
> 
> ...



Good news for you, long may it continue.

I contacted my long term Prof/Consultant the other day. They were reassuring about likely hood of mild disease.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> This week’s new skill to be learned is how to dye my own eyelashes.
> Feeling thankful that I let my highlights grow out a couple of years ago
> My friend has had to resort to getting her 10 year old to do her roots.



The benefits of being a bloke. No hair colour (mainly grey), and just clippers to do my hair.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

Third cycle commute of the week. Monday was virtual, Tuesdat was in the after 'work' but was too busy, and this morning was at 7am. Much better. 

Still issues with people that are hooked on their phones - you're walking in a lovely area, take in the sounds and the view when it's so quiet. An don't get me started on the dog walker in a video call walking down the middle of a road with a dog on an extending lead.


----------



## Julia9054 (25 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> The benefits of being a bloke. No hair colour (mainly grey), and just clippers to do my hair.


Yeah - double standards. 
Men who dye their grey hair - criticised for being vain
Women who don't dye their grey hair - criticised for letting themselves go!


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Good news for you, long may it continue.
> 
> I contacted my long term Prof/Consultant the other day. They were reassuring about likely hood of mild disease.


That’s good, fingers crossed eh?


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> This week’s new skill to be learned is how to dye my own eyelashes.
> Feeling thankful that I let my highlights grow out a couple of years ago
> My friend has had to resort to getting her 10 year old to do her roots.


Nobody thought of such consequences.....


----------



## PK99 (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> That’s good, fingers crossed eh?



everything crossed!


----------



## Mugshot (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Nobody thought of such consequences.....


Ah, the War of the Worlds remake, not critically acclaimed.


----------



## gbb (25 Mar 2020)

We will have to buy some earplugs at this rate.....
I suspect a prerequisite for renting the house next door must be some, if not all of the following...
Smoke dope.
Shout endlessly at your kids.
Argue and occasionally fight with your wife/ partner.
Keep your garden like a tip.
Their kids occasionally throw their uneaten food over another neighbours fence.

The current tenants (newish) are remarkably similar to the last ones, not as bad in many ways but the typical kind of people that make you think...why oh why did you have kids ?
On the plus side, he was trying to home school them yesterday...with torrent of raised voices everytime they got it wrong.kw

I remarked in a post the other day...our house is modest in a modest area but is ours outright, we live a modest life...but this is sometimes the price you pay 

It's going to be a long spring and summer for some less natural parents.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

I said a cheery hello to next door on my ride this morning - they are keen 'utility' cyclists, and had popped out for a ride down to the farm with their little lad as I was coming home at 8.30am Doubt they'd recognise me in my gear though. They are currently working from home, the Mrs must just have been sent home as they have just set up in their conservatory, but the husband has been looking after the little lad. He must be getting bored, as he's washed his conservatory down (first time ever).


----------



## cosmicbike (25 Mar 2020)

I'm down to a cough now, nobody sat on my chest this morning. Still reckoning on a bad cold. Working from home at present, back on duty Wednesday next week as essential worker, sooo looking forward to getting out there.
I'm taking the positives at the moment. The airline industry is decimated, and as I work at an airport it's having a massive impact. I'm still employed, but as of 1st April taking a 15% pay cut to stay that way. I'll take the pain, there's many more in far worse positions now.


----------



## Unkraut (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> I’ve used this period of continued isolation to let @Hill Wimp play with the hair clippers....


Can you upload the _after_ picture once done?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

Apparently some Scottish twins have disregarded the advice regarding minimising time exercising out side the house. They have proclaimed that they have walked 500 miles and will walk 500 more.


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Can you upload the _after_ picture once done?


Cheeky 🤣


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)




----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Apparently some Scottish twins have disregarded the advice regarding minimising time exercising out side the house. They have proclaimed that they have walked 500 miles and will walk 500 more.


It’s going to be a long lockdown....


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> It’s going to be a long lockdown....


----------



## marinyork (25 Mar 2020)

Off licences are now essential retail under new rules


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

marinyork said:


> Off licences are now essential retail under new rules


Hoorah for common sense!


----------



## Unkraut (25 Mar 2020)

My wife and younger daughter who are currently 'trapped' in New Zealand have managed to register for the government programme to fly them home. They don't know when this will be, coming weekend at the earliest. I can't imagine NZ has high priority at present as it is not a high risk area.

She said full lockdown is about to be implemented, and not being able to get around much more a bit of a pain, but what with uno, DVD's .... . At least she is staying with her sister which helps.

As an aside, when out on the trusty steed I've noticed the lack of contrails above not experienced since the Icelandic ash. You don't take any notice of them until they are not there anymore!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

Prince Charles is self-isolating at Balmoral with Covid 19
Prince Andrew is self-isolating at Buckingham Palace with Jacqui 14


----------



## snorri (25 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Prince Charles is self-isolating at Balmoral with Covid 19


Yes, defying government pleas not to think of isolating in the Highlands and to head out if already here.
One law for ........


----------



## Salty seadog (25 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Looking good Fabbers. I’m pleased you are on the mend.



Good stuff indeed but I do wonder if we are seeing the same photo....


----------



## roubaixtuesday (25 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> I now have six relatives who have contracted it.





'kinell!

Let us know your lottery numbers so we can avoid them!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

Another young one died

https://apple.news/AZ4Cthw4iSdysePd3UZWZeQ


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> It’s going to be a long lockdown....



We are going to run out of 'coats'.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> As an aside, when out on the trusty steed I've noticed the lack of contrails above not experienced since the Icelandic ash. You don't take any notice of them until they are not there anymore!



We aren't far off the flight path, very few aircraft to be seen.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

The gap between the PM and his assistants is getting bigger - they just fit on widescreen now !


----------



## winjim (25 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> 'kinell!
> 
> Let us know your lottery numbers so we can avoid them!


Well it's three pairs really. Three relatives plus their respective spouses.


----------



## fossyant (25 Mar 2020)

Cooked - just had an hour's meeting in the conservatory. Solar gain was high, and I can't open the 'door' because we have 'house cats'. Need to move into the garden next time. MrsF is currently on the decking at the back of our garage on a Skype/Teams call.

Most of my meetings, folk have had the camera off, but this afternoon we all had them on - worked well. Bit weird seeing each other's houses. One was recovering from 'illness' and he was wandering round his bedroom trying to get comfy.


----------



## Julia9054 (25 Mar 2020)

View: https://youtu.be/_pYq507WPSU

Cobalt Brass looking on the bright side. 5 young musicians who have completely lost their incomes


----------



## winjim (25 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Well it's three pairs really. Three relatives plus their respective spouses.


Just heard that someone on my street has it...

Edit: found out because they posted on the neighbourhood forum that they were upset because people were congregating in the street, basically having a party outside their house.

Murderers.


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> We are going to run out of 'coats'.


Still plenty Taxis about....


----------



## Salty seadog (25 Mar 2020)

My cousin has tested positive today. She is a 40Yo pregnant nurse. Mediocre symptoms so that sounds like good news.


----------



## winjim (25 Mar 2020)

Salty seadog said:


> My cousin has tested positive today. She is a 40Yo pregnant nurse. Mediocre symptoms so that sounds like good news.


All the best to her.


----------



## winjim (25 Mar 2020)

Somebody in Sheffield taking advantage of the quiet roads today. You know what I'm thinking...


----------



## Smokin Joe (25 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Somebody in Sheffield taking advantage of the quiet roads today. You know what I'm thinking...
> 
> View attachment 510459


It looks like the building won.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

So far so good. Appreciating sitting in garden in the sun and reading books. Not used to this minimal exercise lark and only once a day.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> Yes, defying government pleas not to think of isolating in the Highlands and to head out if already here.
> One law for ........



Reported as saying he has mild symptoms which means he shouldn’t have even presented or been tested.


----------



## nickyboy (25 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Somebody in Sheffield taking advantage of the quiet roads today. You know what I'm thinking...
> 
> View attachment 510459


That regardless of how stupid the driver was, that looks like a really bad crash and I hope the driver survived?


----------



## alicat (25 Mar 2020)

And listening to the reports, Prince Charles travelled to Balmoral when he was experiencing symptoms.


----------



## Pale Rider (25 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> That regardless of how stupid the driver was, that looks like a really bad crash and I hope the driver survived?



Might be one of those that looks worse than it was because the fire brigade hacked the car about to release the driver.


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

My two daughters in Vancouver are shocked by my descriptions of failure to follow social distancing rules that friends have experienced (eg joggers brushing shoulders with them walking on Wimbledon common) and the uk press are reporting.. they are not experiencing or seeing reports of anything similsr5


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (26 Mar 2020)

4 neighbours met up in the street yesterday for a 15 minute blether. At the end, the one with learning difficulties shook all their hands before going home. He's out and about constantly, going back and forwards to the shop


----------



## winjim (26 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> That regardless of how stupid the driver was, that looks like a really bad crash and I hope the driver survived?


He's in a 'serious but stable condition' according to reports. I hope he makes a full recovery, but also that he reflects on his actions and the potential consequences of them, particularly at this time of stress on the emergency services. And also the driver of the car that he was allegedly racing against.

It would have been a stupid thing to do at the best of times, but to take advantage of a situation like this?


----------



## Levo-Lon (26 Mar 2020)

Little things to consider when staying home.

Your bin men /women touch thousands of bins each day and then touch yours.
Delivery staff are the same,they handle many boxes as do the people in all the sorting depots.
The covid-19 virus can survive for upto 24 hrs on these.

Some are saying take your shoes off outside...

Hand washing might catch on


----------



## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> And listening to the reports, Prince Charles travelled to Balmoral when he was experiencing symptoms.


In a private helicopter


----------



## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> And listening to the reports, Prince Charles travelled to Balmoral when he was experiencing symptoms.



Source?

*if* true, that's appalling, choosing to risk spreading around the country with no obvious strong justification.


----------



## Speicher (26 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Still plenty Taxis about....



Or go off in a huff, or a minute and a huff!


----------



## Unkraut (26 Mar 2020)

Glad tidings of great joy!! Wife and daughter have been offered a flight Saturday morning. Will take 33 hours to get here, will almost certainly go to Frankfurt where I can pick them up it's not that far to go. If further away the railway will bring them back for nothing.

All I've got to do now is try to work out an arrival time taking the time zones into account, not forgetting the clocks are changing.


----------



## Rezillo (26 Mar 2020)

Trying to look positive:

1. Everything we use at home is being eked out much further. There is a slap to the face of seeing the profligacy in the recent past.

2. Making food last has involved smaller portions; Mrs R and I are both losing weight.

3. If you like old B&W films, this is a boom time. I'm not sure that watching In Which We Serve and The Cruel Sea has any relevance to avoiding a virus but they are great films.

4. The sky is as blue as blue and the stars at night look stunning.

5. There is a very touching community spirit in our area.

6. By and large, people are behaving astonishingly sensibly. I know there are well-publicised horror stories and we have one or two locally that haven't made the nationals but in the media's eye's, bad behaviour is a story to run and accounts of good behaviour don't get a look-in. I thought things would be far worse than they are.

7. Our infrastructure is still working (fingers crossed).

8. The situation is spawning some of the blackest and poignant humour I can recall. Today's Trump cartoon in the Times, showing his brain self-isolating, made me first laugh and then almost cry. A small masterpiece.

I'm not making light of the situation; just that small things close to home help fight depression when everything outside it is so grim for so many.


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Little things to consider when staying home.
> 
> Your bin men /women touch thousands of bins each day and then touch yours.
> Delivery staff are the same,they handle many boxes as do the people in all the sorting depots.
> ...



Treat takeaway packaged as contaminated (handled in the restaurant and in transit)

Remove outer and dispose.

Wash hands

Decant food from container

dispose of container

wash hands

eat


----------



## Mo1959 (26 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Treat takeaway packaged as contaminated (handled in the restaurant and in transit)
> 
> Remove outer and dispose.
> 
> ...


Most of what I have just bought in the supermarket will also have been well handled. Afraid I just can't bring myself to be totally paranoid about it. I kept my distancing in the shop, was in and out as quickly as possible and washed my hands thoroughly when I got home.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

This virus mlarkey must be serious when it impacts on my morning cup of tea.

After making the drink in my favourite mug, I poured in a drop of milk only to find the milk had gone off.

Doubly irritating because I ruined the tea and wasted a tea bag - the milk had turned, but only just.

It's the fault of the virus because my last carton of milk was a larger size than I normally buy because of shortages.

Could be worse, I could have found out when I dunked my digestive - now that would have been a tragedy.


----------



## alicat (26 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Source?
> 
> *if* true, that's appalling, choosing to risk spreading around the country with no obvious strong justification.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52049039

"Questions have also been raised about why the Prince was allowed to travel to Scotland after he had started to show mild symptoms." 

Note no 'alleged' in the report.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52049039
> 
> "Questions have also been raised about why the Prince was allowed to travel to Scotland after he had started to show mild symptoms."
> 
> Note no 'alleged' in the report.



Shocking. These people really do think the rules just don't apply to them.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

The milk going off is enough to ruin anyone's day, but I do have better news.

You won't want to know - but I'm pleased I can tell you - I have successfully eased the well known side effect of taking morphine as a pain killer.

I'm feeling much more, er, relaxed, following the taking of yet more tablets and a visit to the bathroom.

It was a proper potty buster, requiring several flushes and applications of my toilet brush to persuade it to enter the sewage system.

That glorious feeling of relief is almost worth going through the symptoms for.

Almost, but not quite.


----------



## fossyant (26 Mar 2020)

That's too much info @Pale Rider


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> That's too much info @Pale Rider



Quite an achievement, though.

As well as the post being a pile of crap, it's also about a pile of crap.


----------



## fossyant (26 Mar 2020)

💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩


----------



## Rocky (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> The milk going off is enough to ruin anyone's day, but I do have better news.
> 
> You won't want to know - but I'm pleased I can tell you - I have successfully eased the well known side effect of taking morphine as a pain killer.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how to respond, Paley. Do I give you a . Should we socially distance ? Or perhaps celebrate ? Or should we acknowledge our excitement ? Or even our ?

I'm glad the medication is working tho'.......chronic pain is no laugh.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I'm not sure how to respond, Paley. Do I give you a . Should we socially distance ? Or perhaps celebrate ? Or should we acknowledge our excitement ? Or even our ?
> 
> I'm glad the medication is working tho'.......chronic pain is no laugh.



A 'like' for the kind wishes, and also for the wit of seeing the post as a serial smiley use opportunity.

I suppose we all have differing pain tolerance levels, but what I was prescribed the morphine for was literally making my eyes water.

The Prof won't be surprised to learn the doctor was suitably reluctant to prescribe it, particularly because I live on my own.

As well as what I knew about, the morphine can also cause breathing difficulties which could become serious if they happen when there's no one about.

Good job by the pharmacist, too.

He supplied the bottle with a universal bung and a small pipette syringe, enabling me to draw the correct dose and inject the morphine into my mouth, just like a pro.


----------



## Archie_tect (26 Mar 2020)

Good to hear you've got decent pain relief PR,

A nightly dose of senna will ease future movements... as long as you maintain home isolation...

I recommend a wooden peg- the plastic sprung ones hurt your nose.


----------



## fossyant (26 Mar 2020)

If @Pale Rider posts more rubbish than usual, he can blame the Morphine - it's good stuff.


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Quite an achievement, though.
> 
> As well as the post being a pile of crap, it's also about a pile of crap.


We all knew you were full of schitt....


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I'm not sure how to respond, Paley. Do I give you a . Should we socially distance ? Or perhaps celebrate ? Or should we acknowledge our excitement ? Or even our ?
> 
> I'm glad the medication is working tho'.......chronic pain is no laugh.


....the thought of a constipated and crossed-eyed @Pale Rider on the other hand...


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> If @Pale Rider posts more rubbish than usual, he can blame the Morphine - it's good stuff.



Funny you should say that, I was warned it might make me drowsy, but I wouldn't describe what happened to me as drowsiness.

It was more like a short lapse into stupefaction, a dream like state.

Any audaxers on here may recognise the feeling, because I've heard of a few describe lapsing into a daze and seeing things in the road that aren't there while riding the bike overnight.

I'm guessing what I felt was also a glimpse of what motivates the druggie customers at court.

A few posts on here took a while to write because I conked out half way through.



Fab Foodie said:


> We all knew you were full of schitt....



A cheap shot, or should I say schott?


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> A cheap shot, or should I say schott?


Somebody had tto....


----------



## alicat (26 Mar 2020)

Where's @Turdus philomelos when we need him? Oh wait, that's something to do with blackbirds, isn't it?


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Somebody had tto....



To drift my thread drift back towards the topic, can we take it you are now definitely over what you might have had?


----------



## Rocky (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> To drift my thread drift back towards the topic, can we take it you are now definitely over what you might have had?


I suspect @Hill Wimp needs a huge amount of thanks for the tlc that has been administered. I’m nominating her for a sainthood.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I suspect @Hill Wimp needs a huge amount of thanks for the tlc that has been administered. I’m nominating her for a sainthood.



Yes, I reckon Fabbers could play the patient to Oscar winning standards.


----------



## gbb (26 Mar 2020)

I see Drago has been shopping 

View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156837315666806&id=535001805


----------



## DCLane (26 Mar 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Good to hear you've got decent pain relief PR,
> 
> A nightly dose of senna will ease future movements... as long as you maintain home isolation...
> 
> I recommend a wooden peg- the plastic sprung ones hurt your nose.



Where does the peg go?


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

gbb said:


> I see Drago has been shopping
> 
> View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156837315666806&id=535001805




Looks like he bought that facebook page and is hiding it from everyone.


----------



## gbb (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Looks like he bought that facebook page and is hiding it from everyone.


I did struggle, then got it to work...bah.


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> To drift my thread drift back towards the topic, can we take it you are now definitely over what you might have had?


Thanks. About 90% there now, fever almost gone, chest almost clear, energy levels rising. 😊


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Thanks. About 90% there now, fever almost gone, chest almost clear, energy levels rising. 😊



That is genuine good news.

I don't get too worked up about hardly anything, but if it was the virus it could have killed you.

Hopefully we can get a similar good progress update from @PK99.


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> That is genuine good news.
> 
> I don't get too worked up about hardly anything, but if it was the virus it could have killed you.
> 
> Hopefully we can get a similar good progress update from @PK99.



@Pale Rider @Fab Foodie 

Yes I'm pleased to say i am pretty much back to normal, no cough, no fever currently - but it did rise yesterday evening to 37.3C 

I still feel "a little bit off centre" if you know what I mean, but I've had a bug that is to be expected

I hope MrsPK and I have had Covid-19, we have certainly had the same bug and will want the antibody test as soon as a reliable version is available.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> @Pale Rider @Fab Foodie
> 
> Yes I'm pleased to say i am pretty much back to normal, no cough, no fever currently - but it did rise yesterday evening to 37.3C
> 
> ...



Excellent.

I don't want to put any pressure on you to publish medical information so feel free not to reply, but I'm sure members would like to know what your treatment was.

In other words, did you take anything, or was it more a case of just letting time take its course?


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

Driving to your daily exercise point is still causing controversy.

A Derbyshire Police superintendent on 5Live this afternoon was clear such a journey was not essential.

His force has been using drones to capture people in the Peak District.

Further, he said enforcement by means of fines is going to start immediately.

I'm still not certain driving to a place of exercise is a strict no-no, but the official attitude against it seems to be hardening faster than a smoker's arteries.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (26 Mar 2020)

Only just come online today. It’s done me a world of good staying offline till the evening. Think I’ll do more of that for my sanity. Currently in state of zen calm.


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Excellent.
> 
> I don't want to put any pressure on you to publish medical information so feel free not to reply, but I'm sure members would like to know what your treatment was.
> 
> In other words, did you take anything, or was it more a case of just letting time take its course?



@Pale Rider
No problem.

*NOTE: We have no test confirmation that what we had was Covid-19*

With both MrsPK and myself, symptoms were pretty mild.

Medium grade flu in her case, temp 37.8C, headache, dry cough, muscular back pain, fatigue - she spent a couple of days in bed, but she was stuck upstairs in isolation anyway, so bed with TV was as good a place as any. Took paracetamol regularly over 2/3 days.

Mine was a little milder, symptoms similar temp 37.8C, headache, dry cough, muscular back pain, fatigue. I did not retire to bed and continued as "carer" for 2/3 days while she was upstairs isolating. But catering stepped down several notches to basics such a beans on cheese on toast for tea. Instead of  Oeuf en mourette followed by Sole meunière with home made Gnocchi and Samphire in a garlic and caper sauce.
My routine meds include Hydroxychloroquine 2x200mgxdaily and azithromycin 1x250mgx3days per week. I took paracetamol one day & night only.

For neither of us was the cough dominating- more an annoying deep, dry tickle. No sputum for MrsPK, limited amount early morning for me.

I won't deny, that it was very, very scary when symptoms started for each of us - stepping out into the unknown. But reports of the progress of the disease in the population, even over the past few days has been very reassuring.

Feel free to ask any supplementaries.


----------



## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> @Pale Rider
> No problem.
> 
> *NOTE: We have no test confirmation that what we had was Covid-19*
> ...



So was professional intervention in your treatment no more than a few calls to the hotline?

If so, I'm encouraged because it means our numerical capacity to deal with patients is greater than I (wrongly) thought it was.

What I don't know, or I suspect what no one else knows, is how many patients will require hospital treatment.


----------



## snorri (26 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Shocking. These people really do think the rules just don't apply to them.


People were told to stay at home, but not which of their homes to stay at.
The ruling has obviously proved difficult for some.


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> So was professional intervention in your treatment no more than a few calls to the hotline?
> 
> If so, I'm encouraged because it means our numerical capacity to deal with patients is greater than I (wrongly) thought it was.
> 
> What I don't know, or I suspect what no one else knows, is how many patients will require hospital treatment.



1 time through the 111 web form

1 call to the 111 hot line , got through to someone *instantly*

1 e-mail to my long standing Chest Consultant, who was very reassuring about general likelihood of mild disease.

Only a small % will need hospital treatment, but a small percentage of a very big number is a big number - hence the need to spread the peak


----------



## Unkraut (26 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Feel free to ask any supplementaries.


What programmes did Mrs PK see on the TV? (I could immediately think of some suggestions, but I shall refrain!)


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> What programmes did Mrs PK see on the TV? (I could immediately think of some suggestions, but I shall refrain!)



dunno she was up stairs i was downstairs - while she was watching I did consider casting some thing smutty via my phone to her TV


----------



## winjim (26 Mar 2020)

Did anybody get out for the round of applause just now? I've been feeling pretty disillusioned and angry so it was nice to hear. Fireworks here in Sheffield and everything.


----------



## perplexed (26 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Did anybody get out for the round of applause just now? I've been feeling pretty disillusioned and angry so it was nice to hear. Fireworks here in Sheffield and everything.



Yes, I heard a decent ripple of applause with some cheering and fireworks too.


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> @Pale Rider
> No problem.
> 
> *NOTE: We have no test confirmation that what we had was Covid-19*
> ...


Interesting...I had very bad lower back pain too, which I put down to too much sitting/lying around, rather than the virus....however it’s gone with the fever. Maybe it’s a ‘thing’?
The nasty taste in my mouth is waning too.

Glad you’re both on the mend....


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Did anybody get out for the round of applause just now? I've been feeling pretty disillusioned and angry so it was nice to hear. Fireworks here in Sheffield and everything.


Yep!


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (26 Mar 2020)

I've been watching webcams of places I know - Madrid, Zaragoza etc. I've been shocked at the standard of driving on New York's 42nd Street but I've become completely fascinated at the view from a webcam in Altea.





Bottom RH corner there's 3 cars, but there's usually 4. The black and silver cars haven't moved in a week but the white car and a blue car that isn't there just now keep swapping places and I've no idea how they manage it because the space is so tight. Every morning and evening I've found myself checking and it's become an obsessive compulsive thing. I imagine all kinds of lives for the people involved. I've decided Maria (white car) is a hairdresser but she has to check on her aged parents daily. Carlos (silver Audi) has a jetski business which has been shut down for the duration. He knows he hasn't left enough room for the cars behind but he doesn't care (although he does check his bumper every morning for scuff marks). Juan works part time at the fish counter of the local Mercadona and his blue car was a gift from his parents so he's really careful when he's parking ....

What?


----------



## PK99 (26 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Interesting...I had very bad lower back pain too, which I put down to too much sitting/lying around, rather than the virus....however it’s gone with the fever. Maybe it’s a ‘thing’?
> The nasty taste in my mouth is waning too.
> 
> Glad you’re both on the mend....



Glad for you to.


----------



## stowie (26 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I've been watching webcams of places I know - Madrid, Zaragoza etc. I've been shocked at the standard of driving on New York's 42nd Street but I've become completely fascinated at the view from a webcam in Altea.
> View attachment 510700
> 
> Bottom RH corner there's 3 cars, but there's usually 4. The black and silver cars haven't moved in a week but the white car and a blue car that isn't there just now keep swapping places and I've no idea how they manage it because the space is so tight. Every morning and evening I've found myself checking and it's become an obsessive compulsive thing. I imagine all kinds of lives for the people involved. I've decided Maria (white car) is a hairdresser but she has to check on her aged parents daily. Carlos (silver Audi) has a jetski business which has been shut down for the duration. He knows he hasn't left enough room for the cars behind but he doesn't care (although he does check his bumper every morning for scuff marks). Juan works part time at the fish counter of the local Mercadona and his blue car was a gift from his parents so he's really careful when he's parking ....
> ...



I just looked at this live webcam. Saw a bloke walking his dog along the promenade. Exciting times.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (26 Mar 2020)

stowie said:


> I just looked at this live webcam. Saw a bloke walking his dog along the promenade. Exciting times.



That’s Angel and his dog Bonita


----------



## Mo1959 (26 Mar 2020)

perplexed said:


> Yes, I heard a decent ripple of applause with some cheering and fireworks too.


Some youngsters from the local pipe band played here too on one of the streets. 
View: https://www.facebook.com/graham.martin.7524/videos/2952996031436347/


----------



## pclay (27 Mar 2020)

I woke up on the morning of 16th March with a dry throat and a mild cough. I cough about once an hour. My breathing was also a bit raspy for about 7 days after the 16th.p

The raspiness has mostly gone, but still have a slight cough (that 12 days now). I’m really hoping it’s just a cough. I haven’t left my house for the last 7 days. It’s only me and the missus. She also has a mild cough. We both have no other symptoms.

I try to avoid the news now, as it just makes m worry more. I wish to say a big thank you to all key workers, NHS, police, shops, delivery drivers etc.


----------



## slowmotion (27 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Did anybody get out for the round of applause just now? I've been feeling pretty disillusioned and angry so it was nice to hear. Fireworks here in Sheffield and everything.


The whole street came out and clapped.


----------



## PK99 (27 Mar 2020)

This might be useful for anyone feeling stressed - ie most of us.

Print it an stick it up in the kitchen


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

slowmotion said:


> The whole street came out and clapped.


It was quite moving. I was only putting the bins out.


----------



## winjim (27 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Did anybody get out for the round of applause just now? I've been feeling pretty disillusioned and angry so it was nice to hear. Fireworks here in Sheffield and everything.


OK, the anger and disillusionment is back. It was a touching gesture from the general public but these two make me want to vomit in rage. Ten years of austerity and underinvestment in the NHS, and then weeks of inaction when we knew the virus was coming. Lack of preparation, no proper PPE for NHS workers, putting them at risk, no distancing or public health measures until it was far too late, no testing, nothing. And then this. It's rank hypocrisy.


View: https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243271386845581325?s=19

The applause was to show appreciation for NHS workers putting their lives on the line. The government had the power to make sure they didn't have to. They don't get to join in.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I've been watching webcams of places I know - Madrid, Zaragoza etc. I've been shocked at the standard of driving on New York's 42nd Street but I've become completely fascinated at the view from a webcam in Altea.
> View attachment 510700
> 
> Bottom RH corner there's 3 cars, but there's usually 4. The black and silver cars haven't moved in a week but the white car and a blue car that isn't there just now keep swapping places and I've no idea how they manage it because the space is so tight. Every morning and evening I've found myself checking and it's become an obsessive compulsive thing. I imagine all kinds of lives for the people involved. I've decided Maria (white car) is a hairdresser but she has to check on her aged parents daily. Carlos (silver Audi) has a jetski business which has been shut down for the duration. He knows he hasn't left enough room for the cars behind but he doesn't care (although he does check his bumper every morning for scuff marks). Juan works part time at the fish counter of the local Mercadona and his blue car was a gift from his parents so he's really careful when he's parking ....
> ...









Juan didn't come home last night. He phoned his girlfriend Gabriella to say he had been kept back at the supermarket to help with an urgent overnight fish delivery, but she's not so sure.


----------



## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2020)

I certainly enjoyed giving Nursey next-door the clap last night....


----------



## pawl (27 Mar 2020)

Just been thinking about all the small businesses home owners in the areas that were recently flooded and are still suffering the aftermath. Now they will be suffering a second hit due to the virus.

I know it’s only words my thoughts are with you and you manage to come through these difficult times.


----------



## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> This might be useful for anyone feeling stressed - ie most of us.
> 
> Print it an stick it up in the kitchen
> 
> ...


I'm going to post this everywhere, and am too lazy to credit you, sorry!


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

It's an established fact that every new DIY task needs a new tool. Mine arrived today.






If it ever stops raining, that shed's getting spray painted


----------



## PK99 (27 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> I'm going to post this everywhere, and am too lazy to credit you, sorry!



Good do that.

It encapsulates the strand of CBT thinking I experienced at the Priory in treatment a few years ago focussing on controlling anxiety .

We ALL need that just now.


----------



## fossyant (27 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It's an established fact that every new DIY task needs a new tool. Mine arrived today.
> View attachment 510787
> 
> 
> ...



Have fun, watch the over spray, you don't want a dodgy tan line.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

fossyant said:


> Have fun, watch the over spray, you don't want a dodgy tan line.



I've never used one. It's tradition that every DIY job I do ends up with me spilling blood, I wonder how I'll manage it this time?


----------



## Rocky (27 Mar 2020)

I'm getting fed up with being stuck inside. I'm now resorting to talking to spiders. I've just met an interesting fellow, apparently he's a web designer.


----------



## fossyant (27 Mar 2020)

It's going to be a long few months !


----------



## Dave7 (27 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Most of what I have just bought in the supermarket will also have been well handled. Afraid I just can't bring myself to be totally paranoid about it. I kept my distancing in the shop, was in and out as quickly as possible and washed my hands thoroughly when I got home.


I wore rubber gloves. As soon as I got in the car i rubbed sanitizer all over them. Took them off and left them in the car well. Washed my hands when i got home.
Not a perfect solution but what is.


----------



## Fab Foodie (27 Mar 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I'm getting fed up with being stuck inside. I'm now resorting to talking to spiders. I've just met an interesting fellow, apparently he's a web designer.


Are Yellow Cards suspended during times of national crisis?


----------



## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

Ahem:


Fab Foodie said:


> I certainly enjoyed giving Nursey next-door the clap last night....


----------



## Drago (27 Mar 2020)

It's not a lot different from normal retirement, except the pub is closed and the roads are deserted.


----------



## Pale Rider (27 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> It's not a lot different from normal retirement, except the pub is closed and the roads are deserted.



It's even less not a lot different from being properly poorly.

For a few months I haven't felt like doing a lot more than mooching around the house, only going out for food shopping and hospital visits.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> It's not a lot different from normal retirement, except the pub is closed and the roads are deserted.


It's like someone stopped the clocks at 8.30am on a Sunday


----------



## Mr Celine (27 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It's an established fact that every new DIY task needs a new tool. Mine arrived today.
> View attachment 510787
> 
> 
> ...


You'll need a mask. If B+Q's shut try the hospital.


----------



## Rezillo (27 Mar 2020)

I have four books in today's Amazon Daily Deals. One of them is Lord of the Flies and another is The Viral Storm: The Dawn of a New Pandemic Age.

Thanks a bunch, Amazon!


----------



## Dave7 (27 Mar 2020)

There are two (maybe three) sides to all situations.
We are over 70. Our daughter has 6 in the house. She is phoning us saying "please dont go out......anything you need then phone me". I am saying "6 of you, all young. 2 of us old farts. You just look after yourselves, we will cope".
A young woman we know of, young children, divorced. Ex is self isolating. Her local supermarket has a 'no children' policy.
She is understandably going frantic as she doesn't know how she will get food for her kids.
Many people facing situations they could never imagine.


----------



## fossyant (27 Mar 2020)

I've seen two 'self isolating' deliveries from volunteers on our road just today. One is a chap who works for Briotish Cycling - he came to the door with a mask and gloves as someone was dropping off a few bits. Then someone passing a small bag over the garden hedge to someone (both cars not seen on our road before).


----------



## Unkraut (27 Mar 2020)

Wife and daughter successfully made it Auckland NZ airport. I've just noticed from the flight info that the gate has closed. They should be back here at 22.00 tomorrow, travelling via Tokyo. Good ol' Japanese letting flights through!

Will be a relief when they arrive - there was a threat of a total shutdown of all flights, and I'm not sure how long they might have had to wait as in a couple of months? Now seems the NZ govt simply wants to make sure passengers arriving are kept safe and will then resume flights.

Now then, where's the hoover ...


----------



## ade towell (27 Mar 2020)

Doing fine thanks


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (27 Mar 2020)

A letter from Panama



> CORONAVIRUS....A rainy day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## snorri (27 Mar 2020)

Covid-19 observation today, customers at the chemist shop had to stand out on the pavement and be called in to the shop on a 'one out one in' system. Customers arriving by car drove on to the pavement while waiting the call .


----------



## steve292 (27 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I've never used one. It's tradition that every DIY job I do ends up with me spilling blood, I wonder how I'll manage it this time?


Easy. I nearly took my eye out with bounceback from the work surface. Wear googles, not glasses would be my advice


----------



## sleuthey (28 Mar 2020)

As of this morning:


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (28 Mar 2020)

Juan still hasn't come home and his phone is ringing out when Gabriella calls him. She's called the supermarket, his parents and his friends but no one has seen him. Carlos, in between phoning customers and asking them not to expect refunds for cancelled jetski hires, has been very supportive, taking her dog Pepe for walks, fixing the hot water heater when it broke and mostly just being there for her. You know, a good friend. Maria watches on, knowingly.


----------



## Dave7 (28 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> Covid-19 observation today, customers at the chemist shop had to stand out on the pavement and be called in to the shop on a 'one out one in' system. Customers arriving by car drove on to the pavement while waiting the call .


Happened to me on Thursday. Had an off last Saturday and the wound doesn't want to heal so I went for some better dressings and a 2nd opinion. One out....one in. Everyone was very polite.
The pharmacist assured me there is no problem, just a bad scrape in an awkward place.


----------



## cyberknight (28 Mar 2020)

still full of cold like symptoms that seem to be lingering a lot longer than usual


----------



## cyberknight (28 Mar 2020)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7dVJkyyYMQ


----------



## matticus (28 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> A letter from Panama


Oh wow. We really are living in interesting times!
Send Panama our thanks and best wishes.


----------



## Milzy (28 Mar 2020)

I have massive fatigue today. Can hardly move. No other symptoms though.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

Both healthy no symptoms. Getting our once a day exercise in which helps greatly. Mix of people you pass at distance. Some seem really grateful for the small interaction of a wave and hello. If living alone might be their only interaction that day. Then others who seem in a right grump and don’t acknowledge your greeting.


----------



## MontyVeda (28 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> ...
> A young woman we know of, young children, divorced. Ex is self isolating. Her local supermarket has a 'no children' policy.
> She is understandably going frantic as she doesn't know how she will get food for her kids.
> Many people facing situations they could never imagine.


Surely a friend or neighbour could help with shopping duties


----------



## Dave7 (28 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Surely a friend or neighbour could help with shopping duties


Possibly. I only know of her situation through my daughter. My daughter has 6 to look after (plus us as she insists) so can't really help.
We in turn are looking after a 94 year old.
I am sure she will get help......I was merely highlighting the variety of situations people find themselves in.


----------



## matticus (28 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Both healthy no symptoms. Getting our once a day exercise in which helps greatly. Mix of people you pass at distance. Some seem really grateful for the small interaction of a wave and hello. If living alone might be their only interaction that day. Then others who seem in a right grump and don’t acknowledge your greeting.


Same here- it's weird isn't it??

Are some folks feeling guilty about being out, so need to show they're not enjoying it?
I can't believe ALL the grumpys are actually that grumpy. I hope ...


----------



## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2020)

Finally got out for a bike ride, bloody windy! Outbound along the promenade 11mph with no pedalling, return 6mph and working hard!


----------



## aferris2 (28 Mar 2020)

We are now settled (for the time being) in a campsite on the south coast of Western Australia. Not allowed into the local supermarket until we have been here 14 days, so have to email our shopping list then pick everything up later in the day. It works very well though.
Everybody is now locked down so no moving between states. From Tuesday each region (county) is going to be locked in, further restricting movement.
Getting out for exercise seems ok so far. We have a nice 5km loop running past the camp plus several very quiet side roads. Don't know if we will be able to still use these after Tuesday. Still living the outside life though. Everyone practicing social distancing, no exceptions. Could be worse.


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Mar 2020)

I'm thinking of buying one of these. Do you think they'll be as good,if not better than those flimsy surgical masks we're seeing? Also..will/could the plod stop me and order me to take it off?

*NBC RUBBER Gas mask GP-5 russian black soviet military new, size 0,1,2,3,4*
*£3.19+*


----------



## cyberknight (28 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> I have massive fatigue today. Can hardly move. No other symptoms though.


thats how i felt too, just really tired spent most of thursday alseep


----------



## snorri (28 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Happened to me on Thursday. Had an off last Saturday and the wound doesn't want to heal so I went for some better dressings and a 2nd opinion. One out....one in. Everyone was very polite.


Yes, the door entry system worked well, no problem, it was just the feeling among some car drivers that driving on the pavement was ok during the Covid crisis.
Good to hear your injury was not too serious.


----------



## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm thinking of buying one of these. Do you think they'll be as good,if not better than those flimsy surgical masks we're seeing? Also..will/could the plod stop me and order me to take it off?
> 
> *NBC RUBBER Gas mask GP-5 russian black soviet military new, size 0,1,2,3,4*
> *£3.19+*
> ...


Bargain!


----------



## Slioch (28 Mar 2020)

Finally got toilet rolls today, after 3 weeks of serious rationing. They were stacking the shelves in the local Sainsbury's when I got there at about 4pm, so grabbed a 16 pack. Happy days, and bizarrely feeling a lot less anxious now. Celebrating now with a glass of wine.

I'm looking forward to pushing the boat out tomorrow morning


----------



## Hacienda71 (28 Mar 2020)

Pretty sure I have it as does my wife. Classic symptoms, now three days in. Kids have had slight symptoms but not to the same extent as us. Doesn't come as a complete surprise as wife works in a front line job.


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bargain!


That's what I though,till I saw the P&P!
Ready to dispatch in
1–2 business days
From
United Kingdom

Cost to deliver
*£19.72*


----------



## Fab Foodie (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> Pretty sure I have it as does my wife. Classic symptoms, now three days in. Kids have had slight symptoms but not to the same extent as us. Doesn't come as a complete surprise as wife works in a front line job.


Good luck....hope it’s mild.


----------



## cyberknight (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> Pretty sure I have it as does my wife. Classic symptoms, now three days in. Kids have had slight symptoms but not to the same extent as us. Doesn't come as a complete surprise as wife works in a front line job.


mrs ck is a check out operator , im hoping if i have caught it this is as bad as i get


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## Hacienda71 (28 Mar 2020)

cyberknight said:


> mrs ck is a check out operator , im hoping if i have caught it this is as bad as i get


Same here. I can handle what I have currently. 
Worried about my parents generation. Heard from a friend who has a GP neighbour that they will probably only be able to offer palliative care to the over 60's due to the spread of the virus.


----------



## cyberknight (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> Same here. I can handle what I have currently.
> Worried about my parents generation. Heard from a friend who has a GP neighbour that they will probably only be able to offer palliative care to the over 60's due to the spread of the virus.


FIL and my mum are not even coming out to visitors we have to leave stuff outside and step back


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## Mo1959 (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> Same here. I can handle what I have currently.
> Worried about my parents generation. Heard from a friend who has a GP neighbour that they will probably only be able to offer palliative care to the over 60's due to the spread of the virus.


I heard one of the Italian doctors saying something similar, although I’m not sure if it was people with existing conditions. I’m nearly 61 and would like to think I am probably fitter than many a fair bit younger. Would be nice to have an attempt to save me if possible!


----------



## tyred (28 Mar 2020)

I'm not supposed to stray more than 2KM from home now 

This past few days (to my entire surprise) I had got used to working at home and instead of the usual 2 mi walk to the office I had been going for a 15 mile cycle every morning before starting work and then another ride in the evening. Now I won't be allowed 

I went for a walk today - staying pretty much within my boundaries and was constantly meeting people on the pavements. If I had went cycling, a few minutes out of town and I could have put together a 50 - 100 mile rode where I would have met nobody except the occasional tractor or stray ewe and would have been at less risk of getting an infection or passing on an infection than I was by following government guidelines!


----------



## stephec (28 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm thinking of buying one of these. Do you think they'll be as good,if not better than those flimsy surgical masks we're seeing? Also..will/could the plod stop me and order me to take it off?
> 
> *NBC RUBBER Gas mask GP-5 russian black soviet military new, size 0,1,2,3,4*
> *£3.19+*
> ...


I know a few people who own that kind of gear already.


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> I know a few people who own that kind of gear already.


Summat like this?


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> Same here. I can handle what I have currently.
> Worried about my parents generation. Heard from a friend who has a GP neighbour that *they will probably only be able to offer palliative care to the over 60's due to the spread of the virus.*


Is that genuine or just a rumour? Even in Italy and Spain they're not giving up on the under 80's.


----------



## newfhouse (28 Mar 2020)

I have low level possible symptoms just starting - a slightly tight chest, hoarse voice, and an odd spaced out feeling. My wife had a couple of coughing fits this evening so we’ve decided to be safe and fully isolate from today. I haven’t been to work since Monday when I went in to collect what I need to carry on working at home. Mrs newfhouse last worked on Wednesday and had already agreed a furlough arrangement. She has a chronic medical condition that leaves her with a weakened immune system, although apparently not sufficient for her to be on the shielding list.

Fortunately I bought a week’s supply of fresh food yesterday (before we became symptomatic) and we’ve enough store cupboard and freezer supplies to last for ages. The dogs will miss the chance to properly stretch their legs on the common but they’ll be happy enough turning the garden into a speedway track.

I expect us to be OK but I‘m a bit anxious about what will happen if my mother needs urgent help as she lives alone and has no other family. I’ve deliberately avoided seeing her face to face in recent weeks but there’s just that niggling worry about her having a fall or similar.

I suppose if we are to have it, and if one or both of us needs medical aid, now is the best time before the hospitals are completely overwhelmed.


----------



## Hacienda71 (28 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Is that genuine or just a rumour? Even in Italy and Spain they're not giving up on the under 80's.


It was a comment from a GP seconded from their practice to work in a hospital. They had been told they would be assisting with palliative care. It can only at this stage be a guess, but they will prioritise younger patients with breathing difficulties if available ventilators are limited. They aren't going to broadcast it as policy, but it makes rather grim sense if the NHS is overwhelmed as per Italy. That is not to say they won't try to treat older patients but resources are clearly going to massively strained and it looks as though ventilators can be key to saving lives.


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Mar 2020)

Hacienda71 said:


> It was a comment from a GP seconded from their practice to work in a hospital. They had been told they would be assisting with palliative care. It can only at this stage be a guess, but they will prioritise younger patients with breathing difficulties if available ventilators are limited. They aren't going to broadcast it as policy, but it makes rather grim sense if the NHS is overwhelmed as per Italy. That is not to say they won't try to treat older patients but resources are clearly going to massively strained and it looks as though ventilators can be key to saving lives.


I'm 59,so i think if it gets that bad i might be down the list of those who they'll try to save. Not near the bottom,but certainly not near the top.


----------



## winjim (28 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Is that genuine or just a rumour? Even in Italy and Spain they're not giving up on the under 80's.


Each trust will have its own set of criteria for admission into critical care. These will change as the availability of beds changes. Basically the more likely you are to survive, the more likely you are to be allocated a space in critical care. Age, in and of itself, is not necessarily a factor.


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## alicat (28 Mar 2020)

Good luck @Hacienda71 and @newfhouse. Hoping it turns out to be mild whatever it is.


----------



## Fab Foodie (29 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Would be nice to have an attempt to save me if possible!


....at the very least they could flip a coin....


----------



## Fab Foodie (29 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> I know a few people who own that kind of gear already.


We may have met before then....


----------



## Fab Foodie (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm 59,so i think if it gets that bad i might be down the list of those who they'll try to save. Not near the bottom,but certainly not near the top.


They’ll probably just leave you in the car park with a blanket....


----------



## cyberknight (29 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> They’ll probably just leave you in the car park with a blanket....


nah get the neighbour to care for you .)
EDIT jokingly referring to how well @Accy cyclist gets on with his .


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (29 Mar 2020)

No change in Altea


----------



## winjim (29 Mar 2020)

Suddenly everyone's a gardener. Compost has gone the way of bog roll. I wanted to get my herb garden sorted and start off some tomatoes. I might have enough for now in our little compost bin.


----------



## stephec (29 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> We may have met before then....


I thought I recognised that fa... ah errr I mean!


----------



## MarkF (29 Mar 2020)

Never thought I'd see the day I looked forward to painting the fence..........in the cold.

Meanwhile, eldest son has lost his job and is moving back home, daughter has lost her job too, maybe my mum (83) will spend her last days in solitary confinement, I do hope not.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Mar 2020)

Could a person be fined for going to their local laundry? I haven't seen laundry use on the government's 'essential journeys' etc list. Personal hygiene is essential,but i don't know if we're allowed to make a journey to a laundry,even though some laundries are still open,with strict guidelines on customers keeping safe distances,not coughing in the shop etc. Also...I heard that bicycle shops are allowed to stay open,though my LBS closed last week. You'd think he'd have stayed open,with his main income coming from repairing teenagers mountain bikes.


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Could a person be fined for going to their local laundry? I haven't seen laundry use on the government's 'essential journeys' etc list. Personal hygiene is essential,but i don't know if we're allowed to make a journey to a laundry,even though some laundries are still open,with strict guidelines on customers keeping safe distances,not coughing in the shop etc. Also...I heard that bicycle shops are allowed to stay open,though my LBS closed last week. You'd think he'd have stayed open,with his main income coming from repairing teenagers mountain bikes.


Launderettes are on the allowed to open list so no. Under 'All retail with notable exceptions'

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...her-businesses-and-premises-to-close-guidance

My LBS is available only for emergencies, presumably for key workers. The mechanic is available for telephone consults. They're allowed to stay open, but they don't have to.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> so no


No,as in you won't get fined? Maybe they're allowed to open,but we aren't allowed to make a journey to them.


----------



## PK99 (29 Mar 2020)

Now here's a puzzling one:

I started with symptoms a week ago got progressively better from about weds onwards.

Yesterday felt fine and temp was normal all day.

Got up this morning, intending to cook a nice black dahl - and i cannot smell or taste any of the spices.


----------



## Skibird (29 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Now here's a puzzling one:
> 
> I started with symptoms a week ago got progressively better from about weds onwards.
> 
> ...


 Sense of taste and smell going is one of the symptoms.


----------



## PK99 (29 Mar 2020)

Skibird said:


> Sense of taste and smell going is one of the symptoms.



yep!


----------



## winjim (29 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Now here's a puzzling one:
> 
> I started with symptoms a week ago got progressively better from about weds onwards.
> 
> ...


Biphasic immune response, innit. Check out the graphs for the recent antibody test and you'll see an early rise in IgM, giving you initial symptoms, which drops and gives way to a rise in IgG, giving you a second wave of symptoms. Remember your symptoms aren't caused by the virus as such, but your body's response to it.

From my relatives' experience, days 6-9ish are the worst. Hang on in there.

I am a clinical chemist and trainee clinical biochemist, not an immunologist.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (29 Mar 2020)

Shed spray painted


----------



## Fab Foodie (29 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> No change in Altea
> View attachment 511129


We’re waiting for the next instalment!


----------



## newfhouse (29 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> Biphasic immune response, innit. Check out the graphs for the recent antibody test and you'll see an early rise in IgM, giving you initial symptoms, which drops and gives way to a rise in IgG, giving you a second wave of symptoms. Remember your symptoms aren't caused by the virus as such, but your body's response to it.
> 
> From my relatives' experience, days 6-9ish are the worst. Hang on in there.
> 
> I am a clinical chemist and trainee clinical biochemist, not an immunologist.


Useful, thanks.


----------



## Rusty Nails (29 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 511168
> 
> 
> View attachment 511169
> ...


That looks good enough to self-isolate in


----------



## Dave7 (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm thinking of buying one of these. Do you think they'll be as good,if not better than those flimsy surgical masks we're seeing? Also..will/could the plod stop me and order me to take it off?
> 
> *NBC RUBBER Gas mask GP-5 russian black soviet military new, size 0,1,2,3,4*
> *£3.19+*
> ...


You look ok there accy. Can we see one with the mask on ?


----------



## Dave7 (29 Mar 2020)

Skibird said:


> Sense of taste and smell going is one of the symptoms.


Does that mean I wont be able to taste my wifes cooking?
Not all bad then


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

stephec said:


> I know a few people who own that kind of gear already.



Thought your club was suspended for now?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Wear gloves at all times, this reduces the likelihood of you touching your face with your hands



Surely you just touch your face with contaminated gloves? Same outcome.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Could a person be fined for going to their local laundry? I haven't seen laundry use on the government's 'essential journeys' etc list. Personal hygiene is essential,but i don't know if we're allowed to make a journey to a laundry,even though some laundries are still open,with strict guidelines on customers keeping safe distances,not coughing in the shop etc. Also...I heard that bicycle shops are allowed to stay open,though my LBS closed last week. You'd think he'd have stayed open,with his main income coming from repairing teenagers mountain bikes.



If you don’t go to the laundry it may be effective at establishing a 4m exclusion zone around you.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

No symptoms and feeling ok. No change in resting heart rate or heart rate variability, still within usual norms. Did outdoor exercise with wife whilst it was snowing.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (29 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> That looks good enough to self-isolate in


Yes, the wife's been saying something similar.

Mind you, she was saying that long before Covid 19


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 511168
> 
> 
> View attachment 511169
> ...



Good to see the gun port top left.


----------



## Mugshot (29 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 511168
> 
> 
> View attachment 511169
> ...


I like your ballet barre, any pics of you using it?


----------



## Mugshot (29 Mar 2020)

No matter how you're doing, I hope you're doing better than multi billionaire David Geffen


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> No matter how you're doing, I hope you're doing better than multi billionaire David Geffen
> 
> View attachment 511218



What an arse, hope his toilet gets blocked soon.

What clear is that the advice around self isolation in households is based on property the rich live in.


----------



## Mugshot (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> What an arse, hope his toilet gets blocked soon.
> 
> What clear is that the advice around self isolation in households is based on property the rich live in.


My wife and I were talking about it yesterday, although an awfully long way from being rich we do have a reasonable size garden to potter around in, we're far better off than some.


----------



## Unkraut (29 Mar 2020)

Epilogue (and then I'll shut up!): Family back safe and sound from New Zealand. Not much social distancing at the airport by some. 

They got on the last plane out, and only the Germans have managed to organise a flight out. Some 400 out of 12000 though, and restrictions on movement within the country and a temporary ban on flights means they will have to stay for no-one knows how long.

The pilot got emotional about the privilege of being able to bring them home, and said their flight was only made possible by intervention by the German FO with the NZ govt at a high level. They also brought back two Swiss girls who had been involved in a serious car crash. They were crammed into the plane like peas in a sardine tin.

On arrival my two showed their British passports, and customs rolled their eyes thinking two Brits had wangled their way on. My daughter soon put them right in perfect German, showed their ID's (Ausweis) and customs became human again!

They did have one nasty shock though. After taking off from Tokyo, the announcement said 'This is your captain speaking, welcome aboard flight 345. Today I am working from home ...'.


----------



## snorri (29 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> . Today I am working from home ...'.


Good to hear that your family is re united, but sorry to tell you that joke has been going the rounds for what seems like months now in the UK.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> They did have one nasty shock though. After taking off from Tokyo, the announcement said 'This is your captain speaking, welcome aboard flight 345. Today I am working from home ...'.



Drone remote flying. It’ll come to commercial from military.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> You look ok there accy. Can we see one with the mask on ?


I've sent off for one.👍 They're much better than the paper surgical masks,because the gas mask protects the eyes as well as the mouth and with the rubber covering your face you can't touch your face with what could be contaminated fingers. I just hope it gets here before the virus ends because if it doesn't it'll be wasted money. Then again i might just walk round with it on after the crisis, as a kind of fashion accessory.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> My wife and I were talking about it yesterday, although an awfully long way from being rich we do have a reasonable size garden to potter around in, we're far better off than some.



Yes we are lucky to have a back garden that catches the sun from about 9am at the moment. Too cold for sitting out today. But a calm place to relax once exercise and other necessities completed. Even just 30 mins in sun before returning indoors makes a difference.

Edit - strike that it’ll be from 8am as of today.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Mar 2020)

I went for a walk round Accy town centre this aft',for my allocated exercise session. I filmed all the closed shops with their 'We are closed due to C19' signs on the doors and in the windows. I walked round filming for half an hour and saw just two other people. I'll keep the vid' and look back at it in years to come.


----------



## Rocky (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've sent off for one.👍 They're much better than the paper surgical masks,because the gas mask protects the eyes as well as the mouth and with the rubber covering your face you can't touch your face with what could be contaminated fingers. I just hope it gets here before the virus ends because if it doesn't it'll be wasted money. Then again i might just walk round with it on after the crisis, as a kind of fashion accessory.


Make sure you only wear it once and then replace the filter. If used multiple times, the filter stops working, gets damp and lets the virus in.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went for a walk round Accy town centre this aft',for my allocated exercise session. I filmed all the closed shops with their 'We are closed due to C19' signs on the doors and in the windows. I walked round filming for half an hour and saw just two other people. I'll keep the vid' and look back at it in years to come.



Lucky you have your very own town to social distance from others.


----------



## numbnuts (29 Mar 2020)




----------



## Unkraut (29 Mar 2020)

snorri said:


> ... that joke has been going the rounds for what seems like months now in the UK


Well I'm like British Rail of fond memory - I get there eventually!


----------



## stephec (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Thought your club was suspended for now?


We're restricted to using whips that are over two metres long


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've sent off for one.👍 They're much better than the paper surgical masks,because the gas mask protects the eyes as well as the mouth and with the rubber covering your face you can't touch your face with what could be contaminated fingers. I just hope it gets here before the virus ends because if it doesn't it'll be wasted money. Then again i might just walk round with it on after the crisis, as a kind of fashion accessory.



It will also work well as a social distancing device. Get some bag pipes as well and guaranteed.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

I wonder how people having affairs are getting on?


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I wonder how people having affairs are getting on?


Shouldn't that be 'are getting *off*?'


----------



## rich p (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I wonder how people having affairs are getting on?


She's moved in. Seemed a sensible compromise...


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

rich p said:


> She's moved in. Seemed a sensible compromise...



You don’t mind her having an affair with your wife in your house whilst you self isolate for 12 weeks?


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (29 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> We’re waiting for the next instalment!


You know something? I can't.

I've visited Altea so many times. Got off the bus by the marina to the right and meandered along the front under those trees cut into cubes. The last time I was there with my sister, she couldn't remember which was her favourite tree and she posed beneath each one and compared it with her photo from the last trip until she found it - "This is it! This is my favourite tree". It was one of my sister's most loved spots and I took a pebble from the beach there to lay by her gravestone after she passed a few months ago. 

The main street is unremarkable except the overhanging balconies on each side have cages with songbirds in and you can stop and let the birdsong surround you - a hundred conversations to and fro. But the webcam has no sound and I wonder if those birds have been silenced too.

Now I look every day at the webcam, something's missing and Altea's going through the same thing we all are. Each day I'm horrified at the stories coming out of Spain, either through the media or friends still there and this one image of a missing car has come to symbolise that for me just now.

It's silly and I'm being maudlin I know. The car is probably parked just out of sight or it was only visiting. I overthink things sometimes. I miss Altea and I miss my sister.


----------



## Stephenite (29 Mar 2020)

Today we had a birthday party for the soon-to-be 5 year-old. There weren't very many guests . But great pluck was shown by the little one. And there were a few more presents than normal.

There was a surprise visitor! None but Captain Svartbart on his annual quest for the long lost treasure. (Who coincidentally arrives when pappa is taking his annual afternoon nap!) There was a twist in the tale this time around as, slightly, big brother volunteered to play two roles.

... anyway, I'm sure she enjoyed herself.

The kids have been inside for three weeks now. The 9 year-old is doing ok, but the younger one needs social interaction. I hope it doesn't last for more than a few weeks/months.


----------



## winjim (30 Mar 2020)

As most of our freezer containers are in use, I've been using my cycling water bottles to store chicken stock. Now I can't get the smell out and I think next ride I go on, my fancy energy drinks are going to taste of chicken.


----------



## PK99 (30 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> As most of our freezer containers are in use, I've been using my cycling water bottles to store chicken stock. Now I can't get the smell out and I think next ride I go on, my fancy energy drinks are going to taste of chicken.



Wash out with bicarb.


----------



## Fab Foodie (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Wash out with bicarb.


Or bleach if Bicarb not available....


----------



## PK99 (30 Mar 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Or bleach if Bicarb not available....



Surely bleach will leave its own smell and taste. Bicarb is a great natural depongifier.


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Epilogue (and then I'll shut up!): Family back safe and sound from New Zealand. Not much social distancing at the airport by some.
> 
> They got on the last plane out, and only the Germans have managed to organise a flight out. Some 400 out of 12000 though, and restrictions on movement within the country and a temporary ban on flights means they will have to stay for no-one knows how long.
> 
> ...


Brilliant, just brilliant. We need those bits of humour.


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went for a walk round Accy town centre this aft',for my allocated exercise session. I filmed all the closed shops with their 'We are closed due to C19' signs on the doors and in the windows. I walked round filming for half an hour and saw just two other people. I'll keep the vid' and look back at it in years to come.


Have you per chance got kids, nephews ? It would be good to pass that down through generations.


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I wonder how people having affairs are getting on?


I cant actually keep to the 2 metre rule. Is 700mm acceptable ?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Exercise and immune function.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif.../+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

winjim said:


> As most of our freezer containers are in use, I've been using my cycling water bottles to store chicken stock. Now I can't get the smell out and I think next ride I go on, my fancy energy drinks are going to taste of chicken.


Guaranteed method.
Pee in the bottle and leave for 24 hours.
DO NOT EMPTY IT but just top up with fresh water.
I absolutely promise you, you will not taste the soup.


----------



## Accy cyclist (30 Mar 2020)

I can't say i'm happy with the 'report your neighbour for breaking the lockdown hotline'. There are one or two snoops around here who'd gladly drop someone in it for a bit of self satisfaction,maybe even gratification. One old bloke stands at his door puffing away on a ciggie,taking it all in,many times a day. I've always suspected he 'grassed' on me for using the sheltered accommodation's laundry for a while after i'd left the place. There he was one dark night,loitering around in the shadows,when he must've seen me with my bag of laundry,being let into the place by a resident in there. The next day i got a personal visit from the home's warden telling me to keep out blah blah.Does it mean those who get 'grassed up' will get a 5am door kicked in visit,or will the plod send round a 'community support officer' later in the day to have a friendly word with the accused? I went out twice yesterday,but apart from saying hello how are you to the check out operator in Aldi,i didn't speak to a soul all day. Last night i saw and heard a gang of youths walking up the road. I'd say there was about 7 or 8 of them. Now if the police were to stop them and ask 'why are you out and in more than a group of two' i'd be happy with that,but going off anonymous informants information,it's all a bit police state wouldn't you say?


----------



## Accy cyclist (30 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Have you per chance got kids, nephews ? It would be good to pass that down through generations.


I do,but i suppose with nearly everyone having a phone now they'll have made their own video memories. I'll just keep the video for my self,not forgetting that these digital vids are ok,but they get lost over time,unlike the ones i made 20 years ago which are on 8mm cassettes.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I cant actually keep to the 2 metre rule. Is 700mm acceptable ?




Yes with you both wearing full body condoms


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yes with you both wearing full body condoms


I find it difficult enough nowadays, please dont make it harder more difficult.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (30 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I cant actually keep to the 2 metre rule. Is 700mm acceptable ?


That's just boasting


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

My heart rate variability and heart rate resting values this morning indicate my body seems to be on its even keel. No symptoms either. Waiting for showers to stop so can put turbo on patio and get some additional exercise. I save my outdoor away from home exercise session for when wife is home, so we can do it together. Alternating walking and cycling day to day


----------



## Inertia (30 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Have you per chance got kids, nephews ? It would be good to pass that down through generations.


I admire your optimism that this is going to be an unusual event.


----------



## Dave7 (30 Mar 2020)

Inertia said:


> I admire your optimism that this is going to be an unusual event.


What makes you think it isn't ?
You may well be proved right but what makes you say that?


----------



## Accy cyclist (30 Mar 2020)

BBC reports keep saying 'a quarter of the world's population is now under lock down. Three billion people are under some kind of movement restrictions'. Three billion times four is 12 billion. I thought the world's population was around 7.8 billion?


----------



## stowie (30 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> BBC reports keep saying 'a quarter of the world's population is now under lock down. Three billion people are under some kind of movement restrictions'. Three billion times four is 12 billion. I thought the world's population was around 7.8 billion?



Maybe they are counting lock-down and movement restrictions as two different things? Either that or somewhere a lot of babies are being born...


----------



## Accy cyclist (30 Mar 2020)

So Prince Charles is out of self isolation. Are we seriously expected to believe that him and Camilla spent the last week alone in their umpteen rooms country mansion? It's total bullshit to make out he can look after himself. He's never done that in his life,so he wouldn't be capable of starting to do so now!


----------



## Pale Rider (31 Mar 2020)

Last time I went to Asda there was a queue to get in, so I decided to investigate ordering online.

Having entered a search term to get me going, this is what popped up:


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## Pale Rider (31 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Last time I went to Asda there was a queue to get in, so I decided to investigate ordering online.
> 
> Having entered a search term to get me going, this is what popped up:
> 
> View attachment 511581



Asda are only offering slots for the next two weeks, all of which are sold out for delivery to my patch.

I could check in a couple of days, when the availability of two more days will be shown.

Very likely they will be sold out as well, and who knows how long it will be before a slot is available?

It's a reasonable assumption I wouldn't want a food shop delivery more than two weeks away, so however you cut it online shopping with Asda is a non starter for the foreseeable future.


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## Accy cyclist (31 Mar 2020)

If those who survive the virus develop anti-bodies which attack the virus itself,why can't the scientists/medics copy those anti-bodies and use them for an anti C19 vaccine?


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## Deafie (31 Mar 2020)

I have great faith in the scientific community's efforts to save us

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-52094804


----------



## slowmotion (31 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Guaranteed method.
> Pee in the bottle and leave for 24 hours.
> DO NOT EMPTY IT but just top up with fresh water.
> I absolutely promise you, you will not taste the soup.


You forgot to mention the final rinse with this essential product.


----------



## winjim (31 Mar 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> If those who survive the virus develop anti-bodies which attack the virus itself,why can't the scientists/medics copy those anti-bodies and use them for an anti C19 vaccine?


It looks like they are trialling antibody therapy as a treatment, but it wouldn't work as a vaccine. A vaccine is a bit of deactivated virus that simulates the body to produce its own antibodies.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gigagen-jumps-into-covid-19-arena-polyclonal-antibodies


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## Joey Shabadoo (31 Mar 2020)

Just been furloughed, but on incredibly good terms by my employer. They're making up the difference to full pay - at least in the short term.


----------



## Inertia (31 Mar 2020)

Dave7 said:


> What makes you think it isn't ?
> You may well be proved right but what makes you say that?


Because the way we live means it's not, will it happen again, but when, IMO. Hopefully, we can learn lessons and put plans in place to lessen the impact in future but people are quick to forget. Maybe this will be a wakeup call, but if it is, shorter lockdowns might be a more common response to a threat. IANAE


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## Joey Shabadoo (31 Mar 2020)

and the wife just got her shielding letter.


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## Accy cyclist (31 Mar 2020)

Last week director of public prosecutions Max Hill warned the public that using Covid-19 as a threat against emergency workers would be treated as a crime that could lead to up to two years behind bars.

So supermarket staff are classed as key workers after all! I'm glad about that,with my ex missus being one! I noticed last night in the local Aldi that they now have 'anti coughing,gobbing up' screens to protect the check out staff. I'm now wondering how the law interprets deliberate coughing on key workers? For example i tend to cough quite a lot due to medical reasons. If say a copper or an ambulance worker was near to me and i just coughed without thinking. Would that be classed as assault?

*Deliberately coughing at other key workers such as supermarket staff could be prosecuted as a common assault, which could mean up to six months in prison.*

The crackdown follows numerous incidents of thugs targeting police and NHS workers with the sickening tactic. 

Yesterday, a paramedic who was helping an unwell patient was coughed at by another man who was self-isolating inside a house in Stroud, Gloucestershire. 

'The man, a 43-year-old, was arrested, charged and remanded for assaulting an emergency worker by way of coughing and threatening GBH by infecting with Covid-19,'............


----------



## Fab Foodie (31 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Surely bleach will leave its own smell and taste. Bicarb is a great natural depongifier.


Oh, I agree. But bleach is readily rinsed away too. Milton fluid for baby botyles etcis only mild bleach.


----------



## Milzy (31 Mar 2020)

Furlough is great for now but when we go back the business still won't have many orders. Then maybe redundencies after all?
I'm sick of fools on Facebook saying it's a man-made virus too.


----------



## Fab Foodie (31 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> and the wife just got her shielding letter.


Is that because your restraining order wasn’t working....


----------



## fossyant (31 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> Furlough is great for now but when we go back the business still won't have many orders. Then maybe redundencies after all?
> I'm sick of fools on Facebook saying it's a man-made virus too.



Don't read facebook, it's full of weirdos.


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## Milzy (31 Mar 2020)

I'm wondering if there's humans who are immune. Not because they've had it before but just are naturally immune. How could you even find those people?


----------



## fossyant (31 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> I'm wondering if there's humans who are immune. Not because they've had it before but just are naturally immune. How could you even find those people?



That might be through testing for anti-bodies - there will be folk that are immune.


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## roubaixtuesday (31 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> I'm wondering if there's humans who are immune.



"Immune" normally means that you already have antibodies to the virus - that your immune system is already primed. 

Nobody is "immune" in that sense by definition as the virus is novel to humans. 

If, on the other hand, by "immune" you mean "not significantly affected by", then yes. All under 15s for starters.


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## alicat (31 Mar 2020)

I think you're okay, @Accy cyclist, because you wouldn't be doing it 'deliberately'.


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## Mr Celine (31 Mar 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> and the wife just got her shielding letter.


Who from? The GP practice or somewhere else?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> "Immune" normally means that you already have antibodies to the virus - that your immune system is already primed.
> 
> Nobody is "immune" in that sense by definition as the virus is novel to humans.
> 
> If, on the other hand, by "immune" you mean "not significantly affected by", then yes. All under 15s for starters.



Nope youngsters are not immune, a 13 year old died this week in London

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...london-after-testing-positive-for-coronavirus


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## roubaixtuesday (31 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Nope youngsters are not immune, a 13 year old died this week in London
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...london-after-testing-positive-for-coronavirus



My apologies, my information was clearly wrong. I'm sorry.


----------



## stephec (31 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Asda are only offering slots for the next two weeks, all of which are sold out for delivery to my patch.
> 
> I could check in a couple of days, when the availability of two more days will be shown.
> 
> ...


I have been checking near me for an Asda delivery as well. 

About half eleven last night I had the bright idea that slots might be released at midnight for two weeks time. Sure enough, at 00:03 I ended up in a queue until 00:30 when I finally got an option to search, all deliveries were already booked up but a shop near me had collection available on the 14th April. 

We'll just have to see what I get when I turn up now.


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## stowie (31 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Asda are only offering slots for the next two weeks, all of which are sold out for delivery to my patch.
> 
> I could check in a couple of days, when the availability of two more days will be shown.
> 
> ...



As a family we tend to shop regularly at local shops and then get the "big stuff" once a month or so online.

One thing I didn't think about (but is obvious in retrospect) is the massive increase in people shopping online. I don't think the lack of delivery slots is going to get better any time soon - the supermarkets simply cannot cater for such a sudden increase in online delivery demand.

We got a Sainsburys slot a week or so ago. It was all _very _exciting. We did our normal monthly online shop - around £120 - and waited for delivery. They turned up with a couple of bags and some freezer goods, pretty much everything except cleaning products was unavailable.

I really would like some prioritisation for people having to completely isolate, but cannot see how that could be managed, unfortunately.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2020)

No symptoms in this household. Daily exercise felt fine. Maintaining social distancing.


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## Accy cyclist (31 Mar 2020)

'Mr Nosey' was outside his door when i came back in the car from a food shop. I said hello to him. He didn't say hello back,but he did say 'that's the second time i've seen you out today. We're only supposed to go out once'! I corrected him telling him we're allowed exercise and to buy food,but he wasn't for listening. I think he'll be informing on me when this 'hotline number' is set up.


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## Joey Shabadoo (31 Mar 2020)

Mr Celine said:


> Who from? The GP practice or somewhere else?



NHS Scotland, but it was followed up by a call from the GP in the afternoon


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## slowmotion (1 Apr 2020)

I've been washing my hands so often that I may soon need an industrial supply of moisturiser. Have clever people panic-bought and cleared the shelves yet?


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I've been washing my hands so often that I may soon need an industrial supply of moisturiser. Have clever people panic-bought and cleared the shelves yet?



If you lived in US of A you could get one of these:


View: https://www.amazon.com/BIOTONE-Advanced-Therapy-Lotion-Gallon/dp/B00OYFORME








Sorry, I know that this post is not much help to you but I am bored as everyone is behaving impeccably today and there's not much modding to do.


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## Unkraut (1 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I know that this post is not much help to you but I am bored as everyone is behaving impeccably today and there's not much modding to do


Moderators, like traffic wardens, are nice people.


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Moderators, like traffic wardens, are nice people.


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## Joey Shabadoo (1 Apr 2020)

Just got an email from work saying the company has updated the insurance to cover company cars being used by staff volunteering for the NHS and our Fuel Cards can be used to cover all fuel used.


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## vickster (1 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I've been washing my hands so often that I may soon need an industrial supply of moisturiser. Have clever people panic-bought and cleared the shelves yet?


They hadn't when panic buying was at its peak - I got some good Neutrogena stuff, 50% free too...should last ages, only need a tiny bit!


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## Joey Shabadoo (1 Apr 2020)

Tried out the new toilet brush today. Think I'll stick to toilet paper though.


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## Poacher (1 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Tried out the new toilet brush today. Think I'll stick to toilet paper though.


But will it stick to you?


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## alicat (1 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> 'Mr Nosey' was outside his door when i came back in the car from a food shop. I said hello to him. He didn't say hello back,but he did say 'that's the second time i've seen you out today. We're only supposed to go out once'! I corrected him telling him we're allowed exercise and to buy food,but he wasn't for listening. I think he'll be informing on me when this 'hotline number' is set up.



And they'll soon put him right if he does call the hotline. If you can, just smile like he's your best mate and say something innocuous like 'that's not quite what I read/heard' and go on your way. Adopt a 'water off a duck's back' attitude. Easier said than done, I know!


----------



## SpokeyDokey (1 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just got an email from work saying the company has updated the insurance to cover company cars being used by staff volunteering for the NHS and our Fuel Cards can be used to cover all fuel used.



Nice touch.


----------



## winjim (1 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> "Immune" normally means that you already have antibodies to the virus - that your immune system is already primed.
> 
> Nobody is "immune" in that sense by definition as the virus is novel to humans.
> 
> If, on the other hand, by "immune" you mean "not significantly affected by", then yes. All under 15s for starters.


All? Prove it.


slowmotion said:


> I've been washing my hands so often that I may soon need an industrial supply of moisturiser. Have clever people panic-bought and cleared the shelves yet?


We've got a big bottle of ZeroBase and one of EpaDerm left over from when the baby had a bit of eczema, so we're sorted.


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## roubaixtuesday (1 Apr 2020)

@winjim 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/post-5935710


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## Accy cyclist (1 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> And they'll soon put him right if he does call the hotline. If you can, just smile like he's your best mate and say something innocuous like 'that's not quite what I read/heard' and go on your way. Adopt a 'water off a duck's back' attitude. Easier said than done, I know!


He actually is a mate. He's usually ok,but he does tend to panic in times of crisis and go all authoritarian! When we had the long hot summer of 2018,he hinted at reporting me for using fresh tap water and not washing up water on my palm trees( he said that 'come October there won't be any water left and people will be fighting in the streets for a bucketful of the stuff'...then a few days later it pissed down for a month) and he also said he wasn't happy that my mutt was in the sun,while me and other residents were outside having a little party/barbecue. I kept picking mutt up and putting him under an umbrella for shade,but he kept wandering back out into the sun.It wasn't like i'd locked him in a 50C heat car with the windows shut,but 'Mr Nosey' just had to voice his authoritarian opinion! I don't want to fall out with him though,as him and his wife take parcels in for me,so from now on i'll just smile and act dumb/numb when he says something that annoys me.


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## winjim (1 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> @winjim
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/post-5935710


Sorry, I didn't mean to post that. It was a remnant left in the text box from yesterday. I mean the point stands but I didn't mean to be quite so snarky.


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## alicat (1 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> He actually is a mate. He's usually ok,but he does tend to panic in times of crisis and go all authoritarian! When we had the long hot summer of 2018,he hinted at reporting me for using fresh tap water and not washing up water on my palm trees and he also said he wasn't happy that my mutt was in the sun,while me and other residents were outside having a little party/barbecue. I kept picking mutt up and putting him under an umbrella for shade,but he kept wandering back out into the sun.It wasn't like i'd locked him in a 50C heat car with the windows shut,but 'Mr Nosey' just had to voice his authoritarian opinion! I don't want to fall out with him though,as him and his wife take parcels in for me,so from now on i'll just smile and act dumb/numb when he says something that annoys me.



Good lad! I have to keep reminding myself that everybody is doing the best that they can in these crazy times.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Apr 2020)

All good this morning no symptoms and resting HR and HRV where they should be. They usually change a few days ahead of symptoms of anything turning up.


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## Mo1959 (1 Apr 2020)

@Pat "5mph" Is this the story of your friend’s nephew being reported now? So sad.  
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52115265


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## Milzy (1 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Nope youngsters are not immune, a 13 year old died this week in London
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...london-after-testing-positive-for-coronavirus


Maybe his autoimmune response was attacking his own healthy cells? Look at the thousands of elderly who have recovered on the bright side.


----------



## postman (1 Apr 2020)

Right starting tomorrow i will not be reading papers on the computer.I am sick of reading about the vile disturbed morons that walk this earth.Some of the things in this morning's papers.Tyres slashed cars vans set on fire Nhs staff, Police being spat at.The greed the selfishness appalls me.I don't need to read about it.


----------



## Andy_R (1 Apr 2020)

postman said:


> Right starting tomorrow i will not be reading papers on the computer.I am sick of reading about the vile disturbed morons that walk this earth.Some of the things in this morning's papers.Tyres slashed cars vans set on fire Nhs staff, Police being spat at.The greed the selfishness appalls me.I don't need to read about it.


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## All uphill (1 Apr 2020)

postman said:


> Right starting tomorrow i will not be reading papers on the computer.I am sick of reading about the vile disturbed morons that walk this earth.Some of the things in this morning's papers.Tyres slashed cars vans set on fire Nhs staff, Police being spat at.The greed the selfishness appalls me.I don't need to read about it.


Good decision @postman 

Also, remember when you hear about a few nasty people they are just that, a few out of 60,000,000. There's an awful lot of good people out there who don't make the news.


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## AuroraSaab (1 Apr 2020)

First time out this week since a short bike ride on Saturday. Very quiet, just a few couples walking and a couple of cyclists. The small Tesco and the Coop looked to be reasonably stocked and shoppers were standing well apart at the till.

What I don't get is all the photos of folk coming out of B and M and The Range with rugs, mirrors, and other unnecessary stuff. Surely these stores should be cordening off aisles and just selling food, medicines, and possibly hardwear/tools? It wouldn't be too hard to stop the till even recognising non food items.


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## fossyant (1 Apr 2020)

I use B&M for large 30l cat litter


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> I use B&M for large 30l cat litter



Still no toilet paper in your shops then?


----------



## fossyant (1 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Still no toilet paper in your shops then?



Aye.


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## stowie (1 Apr 2020)

postman said:


> Right starting tomorrow i will not be reading papers on the computer.I am sick of reading about the vile disturbed morons that walk this earth.Some of the things in this morning's papers.Tyres slashed cars vans set on fire Nhs staff, Police being spat at.The greed the selfishness appalls me.I don't need to read about it.



What papers were you reading? I have a couple I read daily and they haven't had too many stories about this sort of activity.

I am sure some of this is happening. It is inevitable because as you say some people are morons. This isn't a reflection on our society or our age - during the blitz looting and crime was rife, my great aunt recounted horrible stories of being bullied and shunned by children and even adults in the location were she was evacuated to during WWII as a child. There is a dark side to human nature.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

No matter how it is going for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/terminal-cancer-lockdown-death


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## winjim (2 Apr 2020)

Piece about my LBS in the local news. I think Henry was on the radio yesterday as well, talking about the NHS deal. Free service, helmet, jacket and lights for NHS workers. As he mentions in the article, his wife is an infectious diseases nurse so rest assured, they are taking infection control measures very seriously.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/business/...ining-open-and-keeping-community-move-2525471


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## stephec (2 Apr 2020)

I've just found out that a little old lady five doors away from me has died. 

An ambulance was called for her last week but she was told it was normal flu and sent home. 

Another one had to be called yesterday and she was kept in hospital but died this morning, first one so far that's been anywhere near to me.


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## Accy cyclist (2 Apr 2020)

The nosey neighbour was watching as i came back from my daily exercise. Yes,i know some might say that i'm watching him,as i wouldn't know he was watching me if i wasn't watching him,watching me etc etc, but i just happened to glance at his blinds(yes,to see if he was looking admittedly) almost shut kitchen window and noticed his silhouette,with hands on hips. No doubt he'll have been watching and waiting for me. I think in his previous life he'll have been an informant for the KGB or the Gestapo!


----------



## Nigeyy (2 Apr 2020)

RIP my Uncle John, apparently due to the Corona virus. I haven't seen him in years as he lived on the south coast, but I do have some really nice memories of him. He gave me a beautiful cut stone crystal bookend set for my 16th birthday which I still have now.

I remember him asking me if it was OK, as it wasn't something a 16 year old lad would usually get on his birthday. I told him right then and I still think now it was a brilliant gift.


----------



## tom73 (2 Apr 2020)

winjim said:


> Piece about my LBS in the local news. I think Henry was on the radio yesterday as well, talking about the NHS deal. Free service, helmet, jacket and lights for NHS workers. As he mentions in the article, his wife is an infectious diseases nurse so rest assured, they are taking infection control measures very seriously.
> 
> https://www.thestar.co.uk/business/...ining-open-and-keeping-community-move-2525471



Yep he was on the breakfast show. Well what’s left of it at the moment.
Sounded like a top bloke.


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## winjim (2 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> Yep he was on the breakfast show. Well what’s left of it at the moment.
> Sounded like a top bloke.


He is. Both him and Mike, the co-owner. Soundest blokes you'll ever meet.


----------



## Stephenite (2 Apr 2020)

One of my brothers, and his wife and kids, back in blighty have it. Not tested but the doc says it can't be anything else. Brother and the kids are on the mend but sis in law (40) is poorly, though not hospitalized.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Still ok, no family members have it to my knowledge.


----------



## Accy cyclist (3 Apr 2020)

I've just heard a caller on the local radio phone in moan about people abusing the allowed exercise and food and medicine shopping trips out their homes. He said. quote...'I'm out walking trying to get some exercise,while people are flying past me running,or on their bikes,abusing the law'.Oh the irony!


----------



## Accy cyclist (3 Apr 2020)

Is it possible to have a test to find out how strong your immune system is? If we knew if it was either good,average,or poor it would help,regarding going outside,avoiding folk,wiping down surfaces etc.My thoughts are that even if there is one,it wouldn't be made widely available,as the government wouldn't want to encourage complacency from anyone tested to find they have a very good immune system and then go on to ignore advice about not passing the virus on to those with a high chance of dying from it. Have i answered my own question?


----------



## Rocky (3 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Is it possible to have a test to find out how strong your immune system is? If we knew if it was either good,average,or poor it would help,regarding going outside,avoiding folk,wiping down surfaces etc.My thoughts are that even if there is one,it wouldn't be made widely available,as the government wouldn't want to encourage complacency from anyone tested to find they have a very good immune system and then go on to ignore advice about not passing the virus on to those with a high chance of dying from it. Have i answered my own question?


I have a theory, and it’s only a theory, that those with weak immune systems are better off. The virus is new and so we won’t have immunity to it however strong our system is. What causes the problems, in the second week of infection, is the interstitial pneumonia and if you had a weak immune system you might not mount such a severe reaction, which is what has killed many people.

My theory is unproven and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone weakens their immune system to test it out......


----------



## Rocky (3 Apr 2020)

Could we as a nation stop calling it Clap For Carers?

On top of all the Covid risks they are facing I don’t think they deserve another infection.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I have a theory, and it’s only a theory, that those with weak immune systems are better off. The virus is new and so we won’t have immunity to it however strong our system is. What causes the problems, in the second week of infection, is the interstitial pneumonia and if you had a weak immune system you might not mount such a severe reaction, which is what has killed many people.
> 
> My theory is unproven and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone weakens their immune system to test it out......



Severity of infections and mortality seems to be related to low levels of CD3, CD4, and CD8 lymphocytes. The opposite of your theory.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.08.20031229v2

This would make sense as these decline in an aging sedentary population.


----------



## Rocky (3 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Severity of infections and mortality seems to be related to low levels of CD3, CD4, and CD8 lymphocytes. The opposite of your theory.
> 
> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.08.20031229v2
> 
> This would make sense as these decline in an aging sedentary population.


Although one of the complications with the pneumonia in the second week comes from the cytokine storm which happens to some patients. Having a depressed immune system might help.....although with this, the patient, as you point out might be sicker anyhow. I’m sure in the fullness of time we’ll learn the answer.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Although one of the complications with the pneumonia in the second week comes from the cytokine storm which happens to some patients. Having a depressed immune system might help.....although with this, the patient, as you point out might be sicker anyhow. I’m sure in the fullness of time we’ll learn the answer.



Depressed immune system allows the virus to replicate unchecked to start with. I would not put the storm down as having a strong immune system. I’d put it down to a defective or ineffective one. Such as defective lymphocytes. But time will tell.

The answers will come after the pandemic is over. But decline in immune system function would explain the age difference mortality.

We are both speculating however, and perhaps leave it till researchers in immunology have the answers.

The advice is that if you are immune compromised to self isolate.


----------



## fossyant (3 Apr 2020)

Did my first pharmacy run for my neighbour. High risk as she is a transplant patient with COPD on top ! Her meds were running out following a change in dose, and the CV19 volunteer had already been to the pharmacy without luck that morning, so I went back, initially got the she's got a delivery tomorrow, double checked, no she needs the drugs for this evening - you said you had some - got 8 tablets after a lengthy wait.

The pharmacy situation is a nightmare, I spent an hour and a half queuing. There were 3 folk in front of me at one and 5 at another - all 'outside queues'.

I've told her to let her other neighbour I'll pop out if they need anything as she's just had cancer. Both seem OK with on-line shopping and family, but I've offered. 

Bob the nob's family are driving those two neighbours to distraction (their houses are next door - I'm 200 yards away) and they've been spotted going out all the time - rules don't apply to us type of family.


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## Jimidh (3 Apr 2020)

I’m at home on my first proper day off in 3 weeks. Community pharmacy has been overwhelmed by the situation mostly by people, understandably but needlessly ordering medication that they don’t need.
Medicine supply chain still intact but was creaking at the seams last two weeks.
Chill out day for me - cut the grass. Ride my bike and a couple of beers on a Zoom chat with my usual pub buddies.
Then back to work again tomorrow.


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

Jimidh said:


> I’m at home on my first proper day off in 3 weeks. Community pharmacy has been overwhelmed by the situation mostly by people, understandably but needlessly ordering medication that they don’t need.
> Medicine supply chain still intact but was creaking at the seams last two weeks.
> Chill out day for me - cut the grass. Ride my bike and a couple of beers on a Zoom chat with my usual pub buddies.
> Then back to work again tomorrow.


How do you order medication you don’t need if it comes on prescription? Is that down to GPs signing scripts that they shouldn’t?


----------



## Jimidh (3 Apr 2020)

I’m at home on my first proper day off in 3 weeks. Community pharmacy has been overwhelmed by the situation mostly by people, understandably but needlessly ordering medication that they don’t need.
Medicine supply chain still intact but was creaking at the seams last two weeks.
Chill out day for me - cut the grass. Ride my bike and a couple of beers on a Zoom chat with my usual pub buddies.
Then back to work again tomorrow.


Julia9054 said:


> How do you order medication you don’t need if it comes on prescription? Is that down to GPs signing scripts that they shouldn’t?


yes that’s the case - think they have been overwhelmed too so the they don’t have time to go through them all and weed out all the early ones. Think it’s happening now as things have calmed down.


----------



## fossyant (3 Apr 2020)

Possibly panic ordering. Most folk on prescription don't really have much in reserve - i.e. a day or two, and if a delivery is late, or they order late, might be a bit scuppered (like my neighbour - change in dose, more tablets used before next prescription comes through). Must be worrying for those on essential prescriptions.


----------



## tom73 (3 Apr 2020)

What's not helped is that a number of drugs have "magically" gone into short supply with no word on when stock will improve. 
Pushing up the price or leaving no option but to re issue scripts for the more expensive version.


----------



## Dave7 (3 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Could we as a nation stop calling it Clap For Carers?
> 
> On top of all the Covid risks they are facing I don’t think they deserve another infection.


MrsD picked up on that the first time we heard them say it. Surely 'lets clap our hands' isn't too difficult to say


----------



## Jimidh (3 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> What's not helped is that a number of drugs have "magically" gone into short supply with no word on when stock will improve.
> Pushing up the price or leaving no option but to re issue scripts for the more expensive version.


Prices have certainly gone through the roof which will be another huge cost to the NHS. It’s amazing how much ‘short supply’ stock is available but at a price.


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> What's not helped is that a number of drugs have "magically" gone into short supply with no word on when stock will improve.
> Pushing up the price or leaving no option but to re issue scripts for the more expensive version.


Just been up to Boots to collect my inhaler. Out of stock - a manufacturing problem. Pharmacist was really rude. “Its down to people with mild asthma suddenly ordering their preventer inhalers who don’t normally take them”
I pointed out that I have been on combination inhaler therapy for years because I really need it.
”Yeah well, they all say that” was her response.
Now trying to contact my GP. I have 3 day’s worth left.


----------



## Mo1959 (3 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Just been up to Boots to collect my inhaler. Out of stock - a manufacturing problem. Pharmacist was really rude. “Its down to people with mild asthma suddenly ordering their preventer inhalers who don’t normally take them”
> I pointed out that I have been on combination inhaler therapy for years because I really need it.
> ”Yeah well, they all say that” was her response.
> Now trying to contact my GP. I have 3 day’s worth left.


Obviously not something you should have to do or maybe even want to, but if you are stuck?

https://www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/asthma


----------



## tom73 (3 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Just been up to Boots to collect my inhaler. Out of stock - a manufacturing problem. Pharmacist was really rude. “Its down to people with mild asthma suddenly ordering their preventer inhalers who don’t normally take them”
> I pointed out that I have been on combination inhaler therapy for years because I really need it.
> ”Yeah well, they all say that” was her response.
> Now trying to contact my GP. I have 3 day’s worth left.



Not a surprise many have never been to charm school. Then they wonder why more are going to online options.


----------



## Poacher (3 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> MrsD picked up on that the first time we heard them say it. Surely 'lets clap our hands' isn't too difficult to say


Better yet: 'Applaud the carers'?
Mrs Poacher proved to be a dab hand on the cow bell, usually reserved for cycle races, and I rooted out the disused Airzound for the start and end of the applause.


----------



## tom73 (3 Apr 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Obviously not something you should have to do or maybe even want to, but if you are stuck?
> 
> https://www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/asthma



Equally you can by one from any pharmacy if you really want one.


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Obviously not something you should have to do or maybe even want to, but if you are stuck?
> 
> https://www.theindependentpharmacy.co.uk/asthma


Thanks but they don't do combination inhalers


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> Equally you can by one from any pharmacy if you really want one.


Really? Any type of inhaler?
It's not a question of want but of need.


----------



## Accy cyclist (3 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> You look ok there accy. Can we see one with the mask on ?


I've just received an email from the seller. The mask should be here either tomorrow or on Monday. I'm wondering where to wear it on its first outing? Maybe a queue in a bank would go down well!


----------



## tom73 (3 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Really? Any type of inhaler?
> It's not a question of want but of need.



I'm not sure which one's but if they are on the right Schedule that covers pharmacy only sale which don't require a script then yes. 
 Normal Ventolin is on the list. Quite a few things can be sold if the pharmacist is happy to sell you it. 
Though you have to pay the full price. 
On a side note they will also do POM meds if the script is from a vet if they are happy to do it. But again you have to pay full drug price.


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> I'm not sure which one's but if they are on the right Schedule that covers pharmacy only sale which don't require a script then yes.


How would I find that out?


----------



## Dave7 (3 Apr 2020)

Poacher said:


> Better yet: 'Applaud the carers'?
> Mrs Poacher proved to be a dab hand on the cow bell, usually reserved for cycle races, and I rooted out the disused Airzound for the start and end of the applause.


Must admit I cocked up.
Bear in mind we live in a fairly big house and spend most of our time in the conservatory at the back.
So......at 2100 we went to the front to show our support  Oops.
We have 3 neighbours who are NHS workers. A midwife and 2 hospital Doctors so we did want to show support.


----------



## Dave7 (3 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've just received an email from the seller. The mask should be here either tomorrow or on Monday. I'm wondering where to wear it on its first outing? Maybe a queue in a bank would go down well!


Maybe stand outside your neighbours window ??


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (3 Apr 2020)

Things to do in the lockdown:

Drink a whisky drink
Drink a vodka drink
Drink a lager drink
Drink a cider drink
Sing songs that remind you of the good times
Sing songs that remind you of the better times


----------



## PK99 (3 Apr 2020)

Just had a Messenger Video chat with dear friend.

65, retired Senior Government Lawyer.
Savvy and Self sufficient as they come.
Diabetic
Coeliac 
Pancreatitis
Autoimmune issues galore

On the 12-week-do-not-leave-the-house list.

She got her letter a few days ago.

Yesterday she was phoned by a lovely guy from the local council to check (among other things):


Did she have enough food? (yes, plenty)
Did she have access to food Deliveries (Ocado due tomorrow)
Did she have access to a Delivering Pharmacy (Yes, longstanding, never visits the shop)
Did she have any other needs? (No, great, helpful neighbours)
Essentially a Triage call with support avaiable to anyone in need.

Here at least (Merton SW London) the system is working.


----------



## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2020)

I've been prescribed something different for my asthma by my GP. Would prefer not to tit about with medication that works well but it seems I have no choice.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

Still good. Out on bike today and set a few uphill Strava segment personal bests. Lung and heart function still optimal. Keeping nice and clear of others.


----------



## PK99 (3 Apr 2020)

Viking said:


> I also had a call from the council because I received the letter. I’ve registered with the NHS website but that doesn’t seem to have made access to the supermarket home delivery slots any easier
> 
> I have no wish to depart in the near future but being realistic it is a possibility and I have documented / updated the details of all of the financial websites, bank accounts, passwords, phone pass code, email addresses and passwords etc. for my family to access, just in case
> 
> ...



My friend indicated that her conversation touched on priority access to delivery slots, suggesting it is in the pipeline.

As I type, she has whatsapped that she has just received an email from Ocado allowing her to book a number of future deliveries as long as they are 7 days apart. She has one due tomorrow and has booked two more for coming weeks.

System working .

Good luck to you. I was very anxious given my longstanding chest issues, but for me the infection was very mild.

<<HUGS>>


----------



## tom73 (3 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> How would I find that out?


Simple way is to ask going though the list is a bit heavy going.


----------



## Levo-Lon (4 Apr 2020)

Daughter in law has gone back to work this week.
Emergency vet work only at medivet.

She's convinced she had covid-19 ,had most symptoms, and said her chest was awful.
Never had anything like it.
But can't be sure as not been tested for antibodies.

Son and kids seem ok so far, but they did isolate properly ,aswel as you can in a home anyway.


----------



## Mugshot (4 Apr 2020)

I bloody well knew it!!


View: https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1246145580402966528?s=20


----------



## Mo1959 (4 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I bloody well knew it!!
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1246145580402966528?s=20



God, these things still freak me out. Don't know why I find them so scary.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (4 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I bloody well knew it!!
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1246145580402966528?s=20




Damn, I was about to post that!

It's brilliant and I want one but at the same time, the seven year old kid in me got the shivers from that.


----------



## MrGrumpy (4 Apr 2020)

A couple of work colleagues are convinced they had this virus back in Feb. It spread to their immediate partners as well over time, all the symptoms that's been described , really knocked them for 6. However luckily at the time both were on leave from work leading upto the symptoms and it looks like it never spread through the dept. For now !! 
Me being a key worker as well, I'm still commuting to and from work and as such I'm also doing all the shopping. Social distancing at home as well since I'm the one exposed currently. Found it hard to start with but used to it now, at least they sit with me in the same room now  

Should also say I know of only one person at our work who has tested + for this virus and consequently was in an induced coma out of it as well . he is coming out the other side only now but that's been nearly 3 weeks.


----------



## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> MrsD picked up on that the first time we heard them say it. Surely 'lets clap our hands' isn't too difficult to say


...but I like giving nursey next door the clap...and she is very appreciative ;-)


----------



## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Just had a Messenger Video chat with dear friend.
> 
> 65, retired Senior Government Lawyer.
> Savvy and Self sufficient as they come.
> ...


In MERTON!!!!!

Must see if MIL has had the same....


----------



## Inertia (4 Apr 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> A couple of work colleagues are convinced they had this virus back in Feb. It spread to their immediate partners as well over time, all the symptoms that's been described , really knocked them for 6. However luckily at the time both were on leave from work


Do you think they are correct In their belief? It doesn’t seem likely.


----------



## marinyork (4 Apr 2020)

Inertia said:


> Do you think they are correct In their belief? It doesn’t seem likely.



What doesn't seem likely?


----------



## MrGrumpy (4 Apr 2020)

Inertia said:


> Do you think they are correct In their belief? It doesn’t seem likely.


Without a test no ! Could it have been seasonal flu , possibly ?? What’s the chances though with all that’s going on around !


----------



## Inertia (4 Apr 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Without a test no ! Could it have been seasonal flu , possibly ?? What’s the chances though with all that’s going on around !


True, sounds like they were lucky, I guess I forgot how long it’s been here.


----------



## sleuthey (4 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> ...but I like giving nursey next door the clap...and she is very appreciative ;-)


 Havnt we got enough issues with the Corona Virus without you spreading your STIs?


----------



## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2020)

sleuthey said:


> Havnt we got enough issues with the Corona Virus without you spreading your STIs?


Just trying to enlarge the circle of my friends....


----------



## marinyork (4 Apr 2020)

Nothing important, but amazon among others have suddenly flipped their delivery policy from deliveries for non-essential items from 28th April onwards towards tomorrow.

Apparently a lot of people have been browsing/trying to order non-essential items which probably do help a bit if you're not leaving the house very much the next couple of months.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2020)

Managed walk earlier sunny but cold wind. No symptoms for either of us.


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

Because there are still many idiots who don't take this virus seriously, I think it is time for Boris to declare Martial law and a curfew from 6pm to 8pm. Get the Army on patrol, armed of course , and tanks blocking main road access to towns and tourist places. I would like to see a camper van trying to get past. 
Why don't people realise that the only way to beat Coronavirus is to isolate everyone? It is worth the hardship for a while if we want to get back to normality very soon.


----------



## DaveReading (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> It is worth the hardship for a while if we want to get back to normality very soon.



So which is it - "very soon" or "for a while" ?


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> So which is it - "very soon" or "for a while" ?


No one can answer that, but the sooner we keep people inside, the earlier it will be.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Because there are still many idiots who don't take this virus seriously, I think it is time for Boris to declare Martial law and* a curfew from 6pm to 8pm*. Get the Army on patrol, armed of course , and tanks blocking main road access to towns and tourist places. I would like to see a camper van trying to get past.
> Why don't people realise that the only way to beat Coronavirus is to isolate everyone? It is worth the hardship for a while if we want to get back to normality very soon.



I wholly disagree with there being a need for martial law but even if there were, what good would a 2hr curfew be?


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I wholly disagree with there being a need for martial law but even if there were, what good would a 2hr curfew be?


I meant 6pm till 8am. It is time to take the bull by the horns and stop all those inconsiderate people.


----------



## alicat (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> I meant 6pm till 8am. It is time to take the bull by the horns and stop all those inconsiderate people.



I think that will just concentrate all the activity in fewer hours so spread the germs better. I personally am feeling safer by going shopping and getting my exercise in the early evening.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Bike ride today and wore shorts first time this year. No symptoms or physical activity clues that something is up.


----------



## fossyant (5 Apr 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> God, these things still freak me out. Don't know why I find them so scary.



Hah, I literally legged it when I was a kid at the Doctor Who exhibition in Blackpool. Screamed the place down when they came out 'Exterminate'.


----------



## Accy cyclist (5 Apr 2020)

I don't like the sound of this! Sorry to those who detest the DM,but i can't be bothered to explain it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sunbathers-flouting-coronavirus-lockdown.html
The health secretary says that unless the few who won't stay in start to stay in, then all forms of outdoor exercise will be banned! That'll probably finish me off then! I've just been out on a 3 hour walk with my dog up and down the hills around here,but not straying further than about 1.2 miles. I only spoke to a few other walkers,saying hello at a distance. I can't live under some total lockdown,especially with the tell tale gits around here. They don't know what exercise is,so it won't affect them! No one's been sunbathing round here anyway,because it's been windy and dull. So because some pillocks in Brighton have been having 'barbies on the beach',i've got to suffer 289 miles away in Accrington?!
This woman's got it right!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...leader-Angela-Rayner-blasts-Matt-Hancock.html
Yeah,nice big houses in acres of land are great for self isolation,but how about having to live in a high rise block of flats with only a tiny balcony ffs!!

I can see these measures turning neighbour against neighbour soon! Sad feckers with feck all else to do apart from observe,then report!


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> I meant 6pm till 8am. It is time to take the bull by the horns and stop all those inconsiderate people.



Counterproductive. I go out after 6pm because there are very few people around. See some of the elderly out at this time as well for the same reason. Most people sunbathing in parks will be out in the day. What makes you think this is a good idea?


----------



## Accy cyclist (5 Apr 2020)

*I* heard some woman on a radio show last night moaning that 'runners and cyclists,because they're taking deep breaths are breathing out the virus(if they unknowingly have it)far more than people who are just walking about'.She questioned whether 'they' should be allowed to carry on running and cycling while we have this virus! F..k it,i say! I will not be stopped from keeping myself healthy! I will sneak out after dark if i have to! I also notice that take-aways' are allowed to open. Why is this so! They aren't offering a vital service! You can easily buy food elsewhere! The government is pandering to the live to eat,not eat to live brigade,while threatening the likes of me!

Rant over!!!


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

Spain, Italy , Turkey are doing it. The time for talking is over and it is time for action and then carry on talking. The curfew in Turkey is 8am till 8pm, I think that's about right. 6pm might be a bit too early.


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Spain, Italy , Turkey are doing it. The time for talking is over and it is time for action and then carry on talking. The curfew in Turkey is 8am till 8pm, I think that's about right. 6pm might be a bit too early.


8am to 8pm? That’ll be good for people who cannot work at home...
You may want to fact check your posts


----------



## Julia9054 (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> 8am to 8pm? That’ll be good for people who cannot work at home...
> You may want to fact check your posts


Or type slower!


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Spain, Italy , Turkey are doing it. The time for talking is over and it is time for action and then carry on talking. The curfew in Turkey is 8am till 8pm, I think that's about right. 6pm might be a bit too early.



Why d you think stopping people going out after 8pm would help?


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2020)

I have to say, things have taken a severe turn for the worst. Acting on the advice of people on another board, I bought a bottle of this -











It's horrible


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> 8am to 8pm? That’ll be good for people who cannot work at home...
> You may want to fact check your posts


S**t, done it again, sorry, 8pm to 8am.


----------



## stephec (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> I meant 6pm till 8am. It is time to take the bull by the horns and stop all those inconsiderate people.


Would you still allow people to going shopping during the curfew?


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

I


stephec said:


> Would you still allow people to going shopping during the curfew?


indeed, personally I’m trying to go late to avoid crowds and queues!
if you limit when people can go shopping, you might end up with more crowded shops and people hoarding and panic buying again so they don't have to go so often!


----------



## stephec (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> I
> 
> indeed, personally I’m trying to go late to avoid crowds and queues!
> if you limit when people can go shopping, you might end up with more crowded shops and people hoarding and panic buying again so they don't have to go so often!


Or not getting to the shop because of the hours that they're working. 

Tomorrow I'm out at 06:00 to drive up to Irving for work, I should be away for 16:00 hopefully and will drive home as I refuse to stop in a hotel at the moment. 

That's me knackered for the curfew then.


----------



## gavroche (5 Apr 2020)

You are all making excuses instead of trying to solve a problem, which is far more serious than going to the shops after 6pm. Like I said before, debating what is good or bad for some is irrelevant, it just wastes time which helps the virus progress. Acting now is for the benefit of all and that's the end of my opinion on the subject.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

The crowds are gathering during the day not night time. An overnight curfew makes no sense in terms of reducing crowding.


----------



## Rusty Nails (5 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> You are all making excuses instead of trying to solve a problem, which is far more serious than going to the shops after 6pm. Like I said before, debating what is good or bad for some is irrelevant, it just wastes time which helps the virus progress. Acting now is for the benefit of all and that's the end of my opinion on the subject.



I will stick within the guidelines. I have inexpert opinions about it, but am no more able to argue from an informed position about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the guidelines and rules than you are. At the end of the day there are a range of options from total freedom to 24 hour lockdown for everyone no exceptions and getting the right one is a fine balancing act.

You are, of course, free to operate as far within the guidelines as you see fit.


----------



## Accy cyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Just listening to the phone in on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_lancashire
There was the presenter the other week saying 'It's just another flu' blah blah. Now he's chastising callers who say the same stuff he was saying the other week!


----------



## PaulB (6 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I have to say, things have taken a severe turn for the worst. Acting on the advice of people on another board, I bought a bottle of this -
> 
> View attachment 512826
> 
> ...


The Germans seem to be doing substantially better than any other comparable country where this crisis is concerned. One secret 'ingredient' being discussed is the humble sausage as Germans have stripped their supermarket shelves clean of this in preparation for the wurst. 


What?


----------



## Unkraut (6 Apr 2020)

PaulB said:


> One secret 'ingredient' being discussed is the humble sausage as Germans have stripped their supermarket shelves clean of this in preparation for the wurst.


People have been sent to the Russian front for less ...


----------



## Archie_tect (6 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> People have been sent to the Russian front for less ...


...but never on a Monday.


----------



## MarkF (6 Apr 2020)

I've been in close contact with confirmed cases for over 2 weeks now, wearing rubbish PPE & am amazed I haven't got it yet. Or maybe I have had it & am so manly I didn't know. In preparation, I've done a lot of excercise, improved my already good diet, am rattling with vitamin pills and haven't touched a drop of alcohol for 16 days, my immune system is going to be as good as it can be.

Am going ga-ga for a Westons.🍻


----------



## steve292 (6 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> I've been in close contact with confirmed cases for over 2 weeks now, wearing rubbish PPE & am amazed I haven't got it yet. Or maybe I have had it & am so manly I didn't know. In preparation, I've done a lot of excercise, improved my already good diet, am rattling with vitamin pills and haven't touched a drop of alcohol for 16 days, my immune system is going to be as good as it can be.
> 
> Am going ga-ga for a Westons.🍻


Look after yourself mate.


----------



## Littgull (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I don't like the sound of this! Sorry to those who detest the DM,but i can't be bothered to explain it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sunbathers-flouting-coronavirus-lockdown.html
> The health secretary says that unless the few who won't stay in start to stay in, then all forms of outdoor exercise will be banned! That'll probably finish me off then! I've just been out on a 3 hour walk with my dog up and down the hills around here,but not straying further than about 1.2 miles. I only spoke to a few other walkers,saying hello at a distance. I can't live under some total lockdown,especially with the tell tale gits around here. They don't know what exercise is,so it won't affect them! No one's been sunbathing round here anyway,because it's been windy and dull. So because some pillocks in Brighton have been having 'barbies on the beach',i've got to suffer 289 miles away in Accrington?!
> This woman's got it right!
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...leader-Angela-Rayner-blasts-Matt-Hancock.html
> ...



This virus isn't being spread by people in the south wandering about or sunbathing in large parks - irresponsible though that is. What about all the call centres and warehouses still open for business? What about all the construction sites still open and those using public transport to get there? The curve of deaths will fall, just as it is in other countries. Unfortunately it will take longer to get there because Boris was busy telling everyone to get herd immunity before it took a group of "boffins" to get it into his head that this was insane.


----------



## Littgull (6 Apr 2020)

As for the curtain twitchers and moralisers who seem to have found a new pastime now that the Football's been cancelled, yes it is antisocial and inconsiderate to be breaking rules that exist for public safety. Some people haven't been following it, but the data shows that British people have by and large been complying with lockdown measures in ways that compare to other European countries. You can check out Google's mobility location data, which the government is now using, for yourself here: www.google.com/covid19/mobility/ It even has a breakdown by county for the UK.

This moral panic over social distancing violators is a smokescreen to scapegoat the public for the government's failure. A packed Cheltenham festival when most of Europe had gone into lockdown. A prime minister (who last night was admitted to hospital) boasting well into March that he would continue to shake everyone's hand. U-turns and mixed signals. A testing regime weeks behind those of other countries. Health workers and carers *still* without PPE. Staffing levels that barely cope when the NHS is at normal capacity. Ventilators still not procured. Businesses still telling their workers they must come in or go unpaid. But oh no, I saw next door go out for TWO walks this morning - will somebody please call the police?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

Wife has taken my car to work to give it a run and charge battery as it hasn’t moved for three weeks. Means I don’t need to go for a drive just to keep battery topped up. Hopefully NHS volunteering means I’ll get to move car enough to top up battery frequently enough.

Still both well, no symptoms, and nothing showing up when exercising.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (6 Apr 2020)

Found a use for that rotten wine


----------



## SpokeyDokey (6 Apr 2020)

I have to confess that I am more than a bit fuming, and equally, I am very baffled at some of the logic applied to the £10k grant for businesses operating in premises that qualify the small business rates relief.

Having spoken to someone who operates a small business (one man band) out of a tiny office telling me he will be receiving a £10k grant I am gobsmacked.

He earns around £130k pa.

His business flow has not been, and nor will it be, affected by CV.

How can this be right?


----------



## Accy cyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Just been to do some laundry stuff up at the local laundry. Me and the woman who works in there everynight and who i've got to know quite well says the Illuminati/New World Order are responsible for C19. I'm always open to listen to others opinions about stuff. After listening to her for half an hour i think she has a point!


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just been to do some laundry stuff up at the local laundry. Me and the woman who works in there everynight and who i've got to know quite well says New Order are responsible for C19. I'm always open to listen to others opinions about stuff. After listening to her for half an hour i think she has a point!
> View attachment 513082


I've always liked New Order.....


----------



## Fab Foodie (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just listening to the phone in on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_lancashire
> There was the presenter the other week saying 'It's just another flu' blah blah. Now he's chastising callers who say the same stuff he was saying the other week!


Never ever listen to phone-ins, they’re just magnets for farkwits....


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Never ever listen to phone-ins, they’re just magnets for farkwits....


I spend my time listening to them these days.........oh hold on


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I spend my time listening to them these days.........oh hold on



They put you on hold?


----------



## HMS_Dave (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just been to do some laundry stuff up at the local laundry. Me and the woman who works in there everynight and who i've got to know quite well says the Illuminati/New World Order are responsible for C19. I'm always open to listen to others opinions about stuff. After listening to her for half an hour i think she has a point!
> View attachment 513082


I don't buy it. I've heard all the conspiracy theories and i don't buy any of them. People like to create a big nasty baddie in times of turmoil. But the inconvenient truth is that it was all just a matter of time before we saw something like this...


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> They put you on hold?


The only person who will hold me, these days.....


----------



## HMS_Dave (6 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> The only person who will hold me, these days.....


Id hold you. Id even give you a


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

HMS_Dave said:


> Id hold you. Id even give you a


Thank you


----------



## Rusty Nails (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just been to do some laundry stuff up at the local laundry. Me and the woman who works in there everynight and who i've got to know quite well says the Illuminati/New World Order are responsible for C19. I'm always open to listen to others opinions about stuff. After listening to her for half an hour i think she has a point!
> View attachment 513082


That's nothing, there's a girl works down the chip shop thinks I'm Elvis.


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> That's nothing, there's a girl works down the chip shop thinks I'm Elvis.


....another one of my favourite songs. I really miss Kirsty McColl.


----------



## Accy cyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Never ever listen to phone-ins, they’re just magnets for farkwits....


I think some of this bloke's callers are actors. One example why i think so. One bloke who calls in calls himself Glenn. He's been on over the last year or so saying his PIP(personal independent payment, to those who don't know what it is). Now i had lots of hassle with my PIP,so after he said he worked as a trolley pusher at Accrington Tesco i thought i'd call there and ask to see him so i could offer some advice. When i went i asked a trolley pusher if he was Glenn and if he wasn't when would he be working next. His reply was 'there isn't a Glenn who works here'. Yes,he could be a genuine caller who made it up about working there,but listening to him,he sounds like he's putting it on. One night he phoned in saying he was going to Blackpool for a holiday. He then asked where it was and how to get there. He says he's in his early 40's and has lived in Accrington all his life,yet he doesn't know where Blackpool is(Accy to Blackpool 36 miles)!!


----------



## Accy cyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> ....another one of my favourite songs. I really miss Kirsty McColl.


I don't think she's dead. She'll be with Elvis,Princess Diana and Lord Lucan on an island far far away!


----------



## Salty seadog (6 Apr 2020)

HMS_Dave said:


> Id hold you. Id even give you a





Brompton Bruce said:


> Thank you


----------



## Rocky (6 Apr 2020)

Salty seadog said:


>


Don't tell the Prof.


----------



## Accy cyclist (6 Apr 2020)

On my drive home from the laundry and the shop tonight i thought i'd break the rules and make a non essential journey. I drove on a country lane,just to pass a bit of time and run my car up etc. I had to swerve abruptly because some scumbag had bailed what looked like settee seats/cushions onto the road! Then further along i saw more crap in the road and also 3 piles of builders rubble etc. I've heard the tips are closed,so this scummy action will obviously be on the rise! Why haven't they kept the official recycling centres/tips open? They must've known fly tipping would increase if/when they closed the places!!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...p-rubbish-near-Lancashire-beauty-spot-UK.html


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## HMS_Dave (6 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> On my drive home from the laundry and the shop tonight i thought i'd break the rules and make a non essential journey. I drove on a country lane,just to pass a bit of time and run my car up etc. I had to swerve abruptly because some scumbag had bailed what looked like settee seats/cushions onto the road! Then further along i saw more crap in the road and also 3 piles of builders rubble etc. I've heard the tips are closed,so this scummy action will obviously be on the rise! Why haven't they kept the official recycling centres/tips open? They must've known fly tipping would increase if/when they closed the places!!
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...p-rubbish-near-Lancashire-beauty-spot-UK.html


Although it could be considered non essential, a tip would be easy to organise for social distancing id have thought. But saying that, people dump crap even when the tips are open. A few are just lost causes....


----------



## Yellow Fang (6 Apr 2020)

My favourite YouTuber was ill for a week. She said she does not know if it was Coronavirus, but she had the symptoms. J.K. Rowling said she had symptoms for 14 days. One wonders how many people really have had it. Here in Reading there has currently been 111 reported cases out of a population of about 180,000, but it seems like there is a lot more of it about than that.


----------



## lane (7 Apr 2020)

I have just been reading an article in the telegraph from 29th March. Don't know how reliable it is obviously. But based on various data including deaths, they say that in parts of London the number infected might be 1 in 6 and in Birmingham 1 in 23. I had seen a report previously that the medical officer thought it was between 3 and 5% of the population was infected so roughly between 1 in 30 and 1 in 20.

The Government are talking about trying to keep deaths below 20,000 and if the fatality rate is 1% that would be 2 million people infected which is 1 in 30. The fatality rate might well be lower (hopefully) so I reckon 1 in 20 to 1 in 30 people infected looks reasonable although there are a lot of unknowns obviously.

Since they have only been testing people who end up in hospital and the vast majority don't the number infected will inevitably be much higher than the reported numbers.

Edit - until we get the antibody tests we won't know the actual answer


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Because there are still many idiots who don't take this virus seriously, I think it is time for Boris to declare Martial law and a curfew from 6pm to 8pm. Get the Army on patrol, armed of course , and tanks blocking main road access to towns and tourist places. I would like to see a camper van trying to get past.
> Why don't people realise that the only way to beat Coronavirus is to isolate everyone? It is worth the hardship for a while if we want to get back to normality very soon.


bonkers.
Have you done the sums?
How many tanks do you think we have got?
(not counting Bovington tank museum)


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Spain, Italy , Turkey are doing it. The time for talking is over and it is time for action and then carry on talking. The curfew in Turkey is 8am till 8pm, I think that's about right. 6pm might be a bit too early.


you are championing Erdogan's Turkey as a model?
Are you sure you are OK?


----------



## gavroche (7 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> you are championing Erdogan's Turkey as a model?
> Are you sure you are OK?


Sorry? I wasn't being political, I was just approving of their decision for the curfew and that is all.


----------



## Accy cyclist (7 Apr 2020)

Why is the taxpayer expected to bail out 4 times billionaire Branson?!
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-04-02/richard-branson-bailout
This 'we'll' pay 80% of your employees wages is widely open to abuse! Not just by mega wealthy football clubs expecting us to pay their tea lady's wages while their chairmen and footballers continue to suck up hundreds of thousands a week,but now many other very wealthy organisations are taking the piss!


----------



## gavroche (7 Apr 2020)

Viking said:


> So, my growing hatred for the turbo trainer apart (maybe not that bad, I’m doing and hour a day, five days a week), things could be a lot worse


You are doing better than me then. I do 45 minutes every other day, with the help of my laptop to keep me company.


----------



## GM (7 Apr 2020)

Viking said:


> As an update to my earlier comments about getting priority access to deliveries from the supermarkets, Tesco have identified me and given me priority, Waitrose is like a black hole; emails etc. go in, nothing comes out and Sainsbury’s won’t even let the emails go in. Despite their good words, the latter two have been hopeless. The local farm shop that we use have been great although they obviously can’t do everything. A near to local food wholeseller that supplies restaurants etc are doing home deliveries now; very useful for some things although they only do cheese in 4Kg lots and even I can’t see me getting though that very quickly. The pubs are doing take away meals which is great for many people but I’ll avoid as a precaution at least in the short term. And last, but not least, a local wine company is doing home deliveries
> 
> So, my growing hatred for the turbo trainer apart (maybe not that bad, I’m doing and hour a day, five days a week), things could be a lot worse




Same here, got priority access from Asda and Sainsbury's. Still waiting for Waitrose to respond. Got a delivery this Friday and again the following Friday.
Got a nice meat delivery two days after ordering from Godfrey's of Highgate, well impressed.


----------



## Rocky (7 Apr 2020)

GM said:


> Same here, got priority access from Asda and Sainsbury's. Still waiting for Waitrose to respond. Got a delivery this Friday and again the following Friday.
> Got a nice meat delivery two days after ordering from Godfrey's of Highgate, well impressed.


Well we are stuffed....the Prof has just had a text from the government saying (because she is on a cancer registry - as a result of her breast cancer 5 years ago) she can't go out for 12 weeks. She was then directed to the Govt website for Shielding to find that she doesn't qualify as a vulnerable person. So she can't go out and she can't get her shopping delivered........a sort of Covid Catch 22 situation.


----------



## GM (7 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Well we are stuffed....the Prof has just had a text from the government saying (because she is on a cancer registry - as a result of her breast cancer 5 years ago) she can't go out for 12 weeks. She was then directed to the Govt website for Shielding to find that she doesn't qualify as a vulnerable person. So she can't go out and she can't get her shopping delivered........a sort of Covid Catch 22 situation.



Ironically my SIL (Trish) is in the same position, she was told yesterday to stay in. It's a crazy situation I don't know what they expect you to do.

Give my regards to the Prof and Gravel, hope you all stay safe!


----------



## Rocky (7 Apr 2020)

GM said:


> Ironically my SIL (Trish) is in the same position, she was told yesterday to stay in. It's a crazy situation I don't know what they expect you to do.
> 
> Give my regards to the Prof and Gravel, hope you all stay safe!


Thanks GM - likewise I hope you and yours stay safe


----------



## marinyork (7 Apr 2020)

There are stories of people who can't get on the register in the media.

I've got two acquaintances who can't get on the register and one applied to the GP who declined it and they are raging everywhere with anger at the world. I think to be fair to the GP they probably don't qualify for what they said they do (which people can probably guess the condition we're talking about).


----------



## Rocky (7 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> There are stories of people who can't get on the register in the media.
> 
> I've got two acquaintances who can't get on the register and one applied to the GP who declined it and they are raging everywhere with anger at the world. I think to be fair to the GP they probably don't qualify for what they said they do (which people can probably guess the condition we're talking about).


Thankfully the Prof is fit and healthy - she is also a medic. In this case, she's going to use common sense.........and of course she's got me to do the shopping. 

Apart from the obvious anomalies, I think the NHS is doing a great job in identifying vulnerable people and getting them support. We are in unprecedented times.


----------



## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Well we are stuffed....the Prof has just had a text from the government saying (because she is on a cancer registry - as a result of her breast cancer 5 years ago) she can't go out for 12 weeks. She was then directed to the Govt website for Shielding to find that she doesn't qualify as a vulnerable person. So she can't go out and she can't get her shopping delivered........a sort of Covid Catch 22 situation.


When Jenny Harries first started talking about this, she recognised that there are some people who might be on the register who are no longer considered extremely vulnerable, while there may be others whose condition has deteriorated and aren't on the register. Recommendation was to discuss with own Drs


----------



## marinyork (7 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Apart from the obvious anomalies, I think the NHS is doing a great job in identifying vulnerable people and getting them support. We are in unprecedented times.



I think so too.

On the employment side I've seen very mixed reports on PPE and deals struck and difficult cases. That would be my worry.

I'm doing everything for my parents, although one acquaintance has drafted in deliveries instead.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (7 Apr 2020)

Getting more and more frustrated with the differences in approach between Scotland and the UK. Scotland seems to lag behind the UK in measures; the "vulnerable persons" list has been distributed to supermarkets by Public Health England but nothing has been done in Scotland. Contacting supermarkets direct in Scotland just gets you referred to the Gov.UK site. Initially, even GPs in Scotland didn't seem to know what was going on with the vulnerable. Sturgeon appears to be trying to gazump the UK press conferences and it's causing confusion when she makes stuff up on the hoof (construction sites and factories for instance).

This is a crisis, confusing messaging doesn't help with umpteen singers trying to sing different songs at the same time. There should be one leader in Westminster until this is over.


----------



## Accy cyclist (8 Apr 2020)

I'm getting sick and tired of nosey parkers telling me i shouldn't be going out blah blah. Fine if they want to stop in and 'obey orders',but i need to go out for my sanity! Yes,by staying in i'm lessening the chances of catching the virus and not passing it to others if i have it but don't know, but what about my mental health situation? No one gives a shoot about me. I have to look after number one,because no one else seems to be bothered about me unless they see me going out,or hear about me going out. I knocked on a neighbours door at the start of the lock down,offering to get them stuff from the shops. How did they thank me? Well,one of them said he'd report me to 'the authorities' if he saw me out more than once a day! I wonder if these types have a portrait on their walls of some fictitious military dictator and every time they look at it they say "I love you glorious leader"! I sarcastically ask because we seem to be becoming a nation of informants and 'tut' tut'ing finger pointers. I hate to think how it'll be if/when this C19 stuff ends. I actually think some folk would like, even enjoy being run by a dictatorship! They're too thick to organise their own lives.so they'd welcome state intervention,telling them what time to get up,what time to go to bed,who they can talk to,who they can't etc etc. I heard someone on the radio the other night,saying many would welcome a police state. On hearing it i thought 'is he having a laugh'?,but these last few days have made me think he might be right!


----------



## Milzy (8 Apr 2020)

I know people with young kids who are separated but still the kids keep seeing daddy. Also brother in law lives with his brother but sees his mum with a bad heart and his girlfriend from another house with asthma. So he can pass it to two at high risks as well as himself who always seems to have bronchitis. Yet he will watch the news and say look at all them kids in the park! Wreckless some folk.


----------



## Julia9054 (8 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> I know people with young kids who are separated but still the kids keep seeing daddy.


This is allowed according to the government rules


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## Milzy (8 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> This is allowed according to the government rules


This is great. It's different rules for different people. Hypocritical government.


----------



## roley poley (8 Apr 2020)

I sit at home with my 85 year old dad who is copd as his sole carer on his 12 week isolation, royal mail who I work for have said my options are take special unpaid leave ,come in to work or use all my paid holidays in a lump. Well... my paid holiday leave wont last the 12 weeks ,I dont feel safe to work on the streets or sort mail with my crew (who are nice people) so I recon its take my paid holls then top the rest up with special unpaid leave, family first and protect all people. Everyone chill out there in this crazy world


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## vickster (8 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> This is great. It's different rules for different people. Hypocritical government.


How so? Shouldn't a child with separated parents be allowed to see both? This disease is enough of a disruptive shoot without stopping young children from seeing both parents. Clearly both families should be observing the social distancing, self isolating, shielding rules as appropriate.

Adults should not be mixing across households unless there is no alternative to provide support to vulnerable relatives


----------



## C R (8 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> How so? Shouldn't a child with separated parents be allowed to see both? This disease is enough of a disruptive shoot without stopping young children from seeing both parents. Clearly both families should be observing the social distancing, self isolating, shielding rules as appropriate.
> 
> Adults should not be mixing across households unless there is no alternative to provide support to vulnerable relatives


It would be safer for everyone if they didn't. The child acts as a point of contact between two households that otherwise would be isolated from each other. Precisely what the social distancing is meant to avoid.


----------



## Rusty Nails (8 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> This is great. It's different rules for different people. Hypocritical government.



There have always been different interpretations of rules/guidance for different people, and so there should be. This is perfectly sensible and takes into account the different circumstances and needs of people.


----------



## vickster (8 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> It would be safer for everyone if they didn't. The child acts as a point of contact between two households that otherwise would be isolated from each other. Precisely what the social distancing is meant to avoid.


Maybe you'd like to discuss with @Electric_Andy who shares care of his young son with his ex partner? He posted his worries before this was clarified


----------



## C R (8 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Maybe you'd like to discuss with @Electric_Andy who shares care of his young son with his ex partner? He posted his worries before this was clarified


Indeed is not easy, but there's also the difficulty of not ending with so many exceptions that the measures end up being ineffective.


----------



## vickster (8 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> Indeed is not easy, but there's also the difficulty of not ending with so many exceptions that the measures end up being ineffective.


It’s a specific exception announced very soon after the lockdown


----------



## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2020)

All well here although my blood is starting to boil re the £10000 small business grant which seems particularly prone to sending quite a chunk of money to people who don't need it when other people who do need help are receiving either a pittance or no help at all for some time.

https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/small-business-grant-funding

Previously posted:

Professional on £130k pa, one man band, operating out of a tiny office (200 sq.ft) with a business that will not suffer from any downturn to receive £10k.

And then:

Very rich guy to receive £10k as his second home is registered as a letting business.

Another extremely rich guy has a small industrial estate, operated out of a tiny office on the estate, to receive £10k.

This really does not feel right to me.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2020)

Started using this app. You can use it even if you have no symptoms just to say you are well. Links to app stores on the website main page. The data page has an interesting view of infection rates at a more detailed level than the high level government data.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

Still fine, no change in resting HR or HRV, exercise feels same as usual.


----------



## MontyVeda (8 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Surely you just touch your face with contaminated gloves? Same outcome.


i think what he's saying is, he doesn't tend to touch his face when wearing gloves. I'm always rubbing my eyes because they itch a lot, but never when I'm wearing my work gloves. 

[edit... just noticed that's from over a week ago]


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Why d you think stopping people going out after 8pm would help?



I would have thought very few people would go out after 8pm.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just listening to the phone in on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_lancashire
> There was the presenter the other week saying 'It's just another flu' blah blah. Now he's chastising callers who say the same stuff he was saying the other week!



We are all learning.


----------



## HMS_Dave (8 Apr 2020)

It's worth mentioning that when the virus started ramping up in Europe the message from the health professionals was to 'delay' the spread, noting that spread was inevitable. During the delay phase, a number of makeshift hospitals have popped up and has increased what the NHS for example can now cope with. If what the Mayor of London can be believed (i know subjective), the NHS in London has around 25% capacity left not including NHS Nightingale London. So, at least right now, the Delay seems to have been largely successful... A major 1 up on listening to the experts and not the media scaremongering headlines...


----------



## Accy cyclist (8 Apr 2020)

Does anyone want to hear my latest conspiracy theory?

Well,not really mine,more a neighbour's With bits chucked in by me.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> All well here although my blood is starting to boil re the £10000 small business grant which seems particularly prone to sending quite a chunk of money to people who don't need it when other people who do need help are receiving either a pittance or no help at all for some time.
> 
> https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/small-business-grant-funding
> 
> ...




I think for those few highlighted there will be thousands that need help.


----------



## slowmotion (8 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does anyone want to hear my latest conspiracy theory?
> 
> Well,not really mine,more a neighbour's With bits chucked in by me.


Could you speak up? I'm being rendered increasingly deaf by death rays fired from the planet Zog.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does anyone want to hear my latest conspiracy theory?
> 
> Well,not really mine,more a neighbour's With bits chucked in by me.


I
No. Not unless it is about Becks.


----------



## Accy cyclist (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I
> No. Not unless it is about Becks.


Actually he's in on it!


----------



## PK99 (8 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Apart from the obvious anomalies,* I think the NHS is doing a great job in identifying vulnerable people and getting them support*. We are in unprecedented times.




I think so too - from the direct experience of a 12 week lock-down friend - she feels well supported. So much so she wants to help neighbours - i have told her not to be silly!

There will obviously be gaps in the new system and equally obviously the press will chose to focus on the gaps.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I think for those few highlighted there will be thousands that need help.



That's just a few that I know and I've not spoken to all the people I do know.

I know it's a broad brush stroke policy but it's a hell of a lot of cash going to be given to those _not _in need.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> That's just a few that I know and I've not spoken to all the people I do know.
> 
> I know it's a broad brush stroke policy but it's a hell of a lot of cash going to be given to those _not _in need.
> [/QUOr
> ...


----------



## lane (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I would have thought very few people would go out after 8pm.



I go out after 8pm and there are others. Buy and large the elderly and vulnerable who don't want to take chances often walking Thier dog. Forcing people to all go out at the same time quite obviously makes things worse.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I go out after 8pm and there are others. Buy and large the elderly and vulnerable who don't want to take chances often walking Thier dog. Forcing people to all go out at the same time quite obviously makes things worse.



Maybe if your surname start A to F go out 5am until say 7am G to K 7am until 9am and so on.


----------



## winjim (8 Apr 2020)

Somebody on my street is using their period in isolation to learn to play the horn. Three weeks in and their repertoire seems to be awful versions of Happy Birthday, the Can Can and the Laurel and Hardy theme tune. They don't stick at any of them for long enough to actually improve. I need to lend them my book of etudes.


----------



## Stephenite (8 Apr 2020)

Stephenite said:


> One of my brothers, and his wife and kids, back in blighty have it. Not tested but the doc says it can't be anything else. Brother and the kids are on the mend but sis in law (40) is poorly, though not hospitalized.


Everyone now doing well.


----------



## vickster (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe if your surname start A to F go out 5am until say 7am G to K 7am until 9am and so on.


Good God I hope not


----------



## Unkraut (8 Apr 2020)

winjim said:


> Somebody on my street is using their period in isolation to learn to play the horn.


Old but good - stick _flanders and swann mozart horn concerto_ in YT for some light relief.


----------



## Accy cyclist (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe if your surname start A to F go out 5am until say 7am G to K 7am until 9am and so on.


Are you still working? Meaning coming into contact with many on a daily basis?


----------



## lane (8 Apr 2020)

Seems simple to me. Either stop people going out at all or not but stopping people going out at certain times of the day seemed really pointless.


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Why d you think stopping people going out after 8pm would help?



It would make existing breaches during that time easier to enforce.

At present, 'I'm going to a convenience shop' will pretty much get you out of bother, provided you are reasonably local.

Under a curfew, the streets should be all but empty during the period.


----------



## lane (9 Apr 2020)

I suppose that's a fair point. The convenience shops round here are closing early anyway. I can't quite see why someone wouldn't just be able to say they were doing Thier exercise anyway. I think the police are more on the lookout for groups who are hanging around. I still think it's counterproductive and don't think it will happen either.


----------



## Pale Rider (9 Apr 2020)

'Going for exercise' is the other one that should work.

I agree a curfew wouldn't achieve a great deal, provided reasonably full compliance continues with existing measures.

Some signs that slipped from week one to week two.

A means of reinforcing the point may be required if the restrictions continue for many more weeks.


----------



## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Are you still working? Meaning coming into contact with many on a daily basis?



I stopped on the 18th of March and unlike you who goes shopping everyday have only been twice for essentials. So that is it since the 18th we have only twice been in contact with others.


----------



## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I suppose that's a fair point. The convenience shops round here are closing early anyway. I can't quite see why someone wouldn't just be able to say they were doing Thier exercise anyway. I think the police are more on the lookout for groups who are hanging around. I still think it's counterproductive and don't think it will happen either.




Police around here are mostly at spots where people drive to to go for a walk with dogs.
There being turned around, doesn't seem to be too many and it seems calm and orderly.
Tho obviously I'm only seeing what I see during my work commute.


Mostly older people from what I've witnessed traveling too and from work on my bike.

I guess they either think it's just a dog walk or they simply don't think..


----------



## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I stopped on the 18th of March and unlike you who goes shopping everyday have only been twice for essentials. So that is it since the 18th we have only twice been in contact with others.


You're such a hero.Tell me,what would you say to folk who have to catch busses to work? If their employers insist they turn up,regardless of the government's 'we'll pay 80% of your employees wages if they stay at home'.


----------



## Electric_Andy (9 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> It would be safer for everyone if they didn't. The child acts as a point of contact between two households that otherwise would be isolated from each other. Precisely what the social distancing is meant to avoid.


Keeping a routine with kids, especially those with co-parents is essential imo. We take necessary precautions. My son doesn't go anywhere (apart from 30min walk for exercise with no contact with people or surfaces). If anyone in either household has so much as a sore toenail then we don't transfer our son between parents until 7 days isolation has occurred. My ex has a partner with Addison's Disease so he's very immuno suppressed. Everyone is careful. But to suggest keeping a child from either one of their parents for months on end is absurd. If you're being that strict, then people should be banned from shopping and we should all have rations dropped at our door.


----------



## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> You're such a hero.Tell me,what would you say to folk who have to catch busses to work? If their employers insist they turn up,regardless of the government's 'we'll pay 80% of your employees wages if they stay at home'.



I salute and thank with all my heart the very brave essential workers out there, those that are making none essentials go to work are wrong, very wrong, can you give me some links to this please. I am not a hero, I am purely doing what is asked if me, now if the idiots out there all did the same.


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## marinyork (9 Apr 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> But to suggest keeping a child from either one of their parents for months on end is absurd. If you're being that strict, then people should be banned from shopping and we should all have rations dropped at our door.



It'd help if you didn't allege things others haven't said. C R didn't say months. If people keep on adding bits on then everyone in society is going to be falling out with everyone else and you will be so jumpy you will be falling out with everyone in your life and have a miserable time.

The original lockdown was for three weeks. One of the things that will have been taken into account is the mixed messages from having a 3 week break and then relaxing and reapplying. Or taking it away later. From the behaviour point of view it's probably why the government probably clarified that the exeption was permanent.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Accy is calling me a hero for staying indoors and trying not to help spread this virus, I think that I am certainly not.


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## Mo1959 (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I stopped on the 18th of March and unlike you who goes shopping everyday have only been twice for essentials. So that is it since the 18th we have only twice been in contact with others.


I wish I could avoid the shops more too but don't even have a freezer at the moment. I can squeeze a couple of loaves and a bag of frozen veg in the ice compartment in the fridge but I'm finding I need to shop a couple of times per week.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> I wish I could avoid the shops more too but don't even have a freezer at the moment. I can squeeze a couple of loaves and a bag of frozen veg in the ice compartment in the fridge but I'm finding I need to shop a couple of times per week.



Some are out everyday though.


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> It'd help if you didn't allege things others haven't said. C R didn't say months. If people keep on adding bits on then everyone in society is going to be falling out with everyone else and you will be so jumpy you will be falling out with everyone in your life and have a miserable time.
> 
> The original lockdown was for three weeks. One of the things that will have been taken into account is the mixed messages from having a 3 week break and then relaxing and reapplying. Or taking it away later. From the behaviour point of view it's probably why the government probably clarified that the exeption was permanent.





More accurately, the original lockdown was indefinite, with a review after three weeks.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Some are out everyday though.


Some might not even have a fridge,never mind a freezer! I'm not one of those by the way(although my freezer is about the size of 2 shoe boxes),but I do have fair reasons for nearly every day shopping.


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## marinyork (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> More accurately, the original lockdown was indefinite, with a review after three weeks.



Well strictly speaking various other aspects of the legislation will be debated every six months. So not even that is correct. Generally expire no later than march 2022.

You know what my point was. It applies to you as well. If people keep on adding bits on everyone will fall out. Same with you, same with electric andy. You're doing it right now taking a quote out of context to get a few likes and stoke emotions of people.


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## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> More accurately, the original lockdown was indefinite, with a review after three weeks.



Exactly, and we may get another 3 weeks added today.
Easter behaviour will dictate what happens next week.
Fingers crossed the idiots get the message. 

Sadly I think we're going to see more stringent measures


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## marinyork (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> More accurately, the original lockdown was indefinite, with a review after three weeks.



Don't quote one line. Quote the rest of the paragraph which contains the information you are wanting.
*Mod Note:*
now corrected.


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## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Some might not even have a fridge,never mind a freezer! I'm not one of those by the way(although my freezer is about the size of 2 shoe boxes),but I do have fair reasons for nearly every day shopping.




Accy if your shopping local daily and paying attention to hand washing and being careful about distancing then that's ok.

This is about being considerate to others.
So if your particular situation is as such Just be aware of the need to follow the guide as far as possible in your daily life.


I'm sure you as much as any of us wouldn't want to be responsible for passing this awful disease around


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## marinyork (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Exactly, and we may get another 3 weeks added today.
> Easter behaviour will dictate what happens next week.
> Fingers crossed the idiots get the message.
> 
> Sadly I think we're going to see more stringent measures



Read the rest of the paragraph.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Exactly, and we may get another 3 weeks added today.
> Easter behaviour will dictate what happens next week.
> Fingers crossed the idiots get the message.
> 
> Sadly I think we're going to see more stringent measures


When the lockdown was brought in 3 weeks ago,I never imagined it'd be lifted after the first review. I think it'll go on for months,even if those playing cricket,having picnics,having house parties etc were to stop their antics today.


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## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Don't quote one line. Quote the rest of the paragraph which contains the information you are wanting.



Sometimes keeping it simple is the best policy


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## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> When the lockdown was brought in 3 weeks ago,I never imagined it'd be lifted after the first review. I think it'll go on for months,even if those playing cricket,having picnics,having house parties etc were to stop their antics today.




It may go on for a few months,personally I think end of June.

Unfortunately certain parts of the population could make it more unbearable for the well behaved.
Stir crazy residents in my care home are already flipping.
Bad tempers and door slamming


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Accy if your shopping local daily and paying attention to hand washing and being careful about distancing then that's ok.
> 
> This is about being considerate to others.
> So if your particular situation is as such Just be aware of the need to follow the guide as far as possible in your daily life.


Yes,I am shopping locally. The two places I use are about a 10 minute walk from my flat. I've always carried and used hand sanitizer,long before it became a sought after item. I also try and keep my distance from other shoppers,though I can't say the same for many who don't keep their distance from me. Yes,some will say in that case it might not be your fault if you were to unknowingly pass the virus onto others,but even though you have done your bit you are still a problem.


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## marinyork (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Sometimes keeping it simple is the best policy



Yeah if you want everyone in society to fall out. By the sounds of it that is what DaveReading and Electric Andy actually want. Everyone can be arses and get cleverer and cleverer until everyone falls out. We have ones on here that are pretty obtuse and provocative in normal times, let alone coronavirus times.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Accy if your shopping local daily and paying attention to hand washing and being careful about distancing then that's ok.
> 
> This is about being considerate to others.
> So if your particular situation is as such Just be aware of the need to follow the guide as far as possible in your daily life.
> ...



I disagree, so do the experts, fewer movements mean fewer chances.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

On about hand gel/sanitizer. They've been putting electric cables down,outside an old dilapidated building near here,this week. A bloke who lives directly opposite the place told me that he's spoken to the boss of those laying the cables,who told him it's going to be used for making 1 million bottles of hand gel a week. I don't know how they've been given permission to use the building as it's been empty for many years and as far as I know no work has been done to it. It seems 'health and safety' go out the window in times of need!!


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## Levo-Lon (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I disagree, so do the experts, fewer movements mean fewer chances.



True, but everyone has their own situation.

You I would imagine have a decent chest freezer and live rural and I would think a good well stocked dry store food wise.

The poorer in society have to live day to day.
I also agree with you ,we shop once a week but we have had to get a loaf mid week and milk ect, you cant buy a weeks worth "for us 4, 2 pint cartons, wife wont the lift a 4." Weak wrist

But we can thank the panic buyers for this.


----------



## Electric_Andy (9 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Yeah if you want everyone in society to fall out. By the sounds of it that is what DaveReading and Electric Andy actually want. Everyone can be arses and get cleverer and cleverer until everyone falls out. We have ones on here that are pretty obtuse and provocative in normal times, let alone coronavirus times.


Please don't dramatise it, I do not want anyone to fall out, I have better things to do than stir up unrest online! All i was doing was giving my opinion on what someone else had said regarding movement of kids between co-parent households. 


C R said:


> It would be safer for everyone if they didn't. The child acts as a point of contact between two households that otherwise would be isolated from each other. Precisely what the social distancing is meant to avoid.



All I'm saying is that kids moving between parents is one of the child's emotional needs that needs to be met (in most cases). But if you want to think you're in charge of these threads then you're free to remove mine if you want, I won't mind


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> True, but everyone has their own situation.
> 
> You I would imagine have a decent chest freezer and live rural and I would think a good well stocked dry store food wise.
> 
> ...



I am glad you agree that the fewer times people venture out the less chance of this killer spreading. Even the very poor can lessen the need to go out, some people with mental problems maybe not so.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I would have thought very few people would go out after 8pm.


I work in Aldi and a few weeks back, we started closing the store at 8pm instead of 10pm. However from next week, we're going back to 10pm closing. Apparently other supermarkets are doing the same thing, to spread to opening hours and aid social distancing. 

Just thought I'd mention it


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## PK99 (9 Apr 2020)

Had an appropriately distanced chat with a motorcycle policeman yesterday.

He said that generally, they are having few problems with stupid behaviour and are preferring friendly chats rather than £30 fines - there is as much paperwork (he said 1hr) back at the station for a £30 Covid fine as for a full blown arrest.


----------



## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> I work in Aldi and a few weeks back, we started closing the store at 8pm instead of 10pm. However from next week, we're going back to 10pm closing. Apparently other supermarkets are doing the same thing, to spread to opening hours and aid social distancing.
> 
> Just thought I'd mention it


why have Aldi stores hidden all the baskets this last week or so? I've been using my plastic shopping bag to put items in,then emptying it at the checkout. It's been a bit like those old Jeremy Beadle shows where actors did something unusual in view of the unsuspecting public. I drop stuff in my big 'bag for life' and watch the reaction of the nearby (6 feet away of course!) shopper. Some must think i'm 'on the rob'.


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## Milzy (9 Apr 2020)

Inside sources say we have 3 more weeks of this then people's works will be phoning them all back in.


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## icowden (9 Apr 2020)

Remember the aim of this is *not *to prevent people getting Covid-19. That isn't achievable.
The aim is to stop everyone getting it at the same time. Many of the people who will die from Covid-19 are people who could also have died from something else. The government also has to balance keeping a reduced infection rate / death rate from Covid-19 against possible increases in domestic violence, child abuse, and deaths from inactivity, suicide, poverty etc.

Small bendings of the rules aren't too problematic to the model. It's when they turn into much larger bendings of the rules (so mass gatherings for example) that the spread increases much faster and therefore the peak starts to overwhelm the emergency services.

There is a pretty good write up from MD in this fortnight's Private Eye. MD does also point out that there are positives. For example many people have now found that lots of things don't actually need a visit to A&E...


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## icowden (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> why have Aldi stores hidden all the baskets this last week or so? I've been using my plastic shopping bag to put items in,then emptying it at the checkout. It's been a bit like those old Jeremy Beadle shows where actors did something unusual in view of the unsuspecting public. I drop stuff in my big 'bag for life' and watch the reaction of the nearby (6 feet away of course!) shopper. Some must think i'm 'on the rob'.


Simple - all those basket handles would be a primary way to spread infection.


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Exactly, and we may get another 3 weeks added today.
> Easter behaviour will dictate what happens next week.
> Fingers crossed the idiots get the message.
> 
> Sadly I think we're going to see more stringent measures



No decision likely today, according to the media, but I think we can be confident that the review next week will not result in any significant easing of the restrictions - possibly the opposite, depending on how the Great British Public behaves over the weekend.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> Simple - all those basket handles would be a primary way to spread infection.


Yeah but surely trolley handles do too and then there's the putting (contaminated) pound coins into trollies as well.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> why have Aldi stores hidden all the baskets this last week or so? I've been using my plastic shopping bag to put items in,then emptying it at the checkout. It's been a bit like those old Jeremy Beadle shows where actors did something unusual in view of the unsuspecting public. I drop stuff in my big 'bag for life' and watch the reaction of the nearby (6 feet away of course!) shopper. Some must think i'm 'on the rob'.


We've not hidden the baskets in our store (yet)... but i suspect it's an attempt to stop the spread. We have antibacterial wipes and hand sanitiser next to the stack of baskets so customers can clean the handle and their hands before they shop.

Plenty of customers do what you do (use their own bag instead of a basket). As a member of floor staff, I'll mention it (you) to the checkouts to double check your bag for life . But I wouldn't worry about it, it's not uncommon to use your bag instead of basket, and as things are, it's probably more sensible


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## Joey Shabadoo (9 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> There is a pretty good write up from MD in this fortnight's Private Eye. MD does also point out that there are positives.



Indeed, I've spent time chatting with my wife this past week. She seems nice.


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## winjim (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> We've not hidden the baskets in our store (yet)... but i suspect it's an attempt to stop the spread. We have antibacterial wipes and hand sanitiser next to the stack of baskets so customers can clean the handle and their hands before they shop.
> 
> Plenty of customers do what you do (use their own bag instead of a basket). As a member of floor staff, I'll mention it (you) to the checkouts to double check your bag for life . But I wouldn't worry about it, it's not uncommon to use your bag instead of basket, and as things are, it's probably more sensible


I've always done it like that and nobody's ever challenged me or given me so much as a funny look.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> I work in Aldi and a few weeks back, we started closing the store at 8pm instead of 10pm. However from next week, we're going back to 10pm closing. Apparently other supermarkets are doing the same thing, to spread to opening hours and aid social distancing.
> 
> Just thought I'd mention it



From the front line, what are your thoughts on people shopping daily and those that just meander around? I can uderstand the longer hours but I am sure you will still get peak times. My point on peopel not going out after 8pm was from personal observations of my local area, which seems to shut down in the evening.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yeah but surely trolley handles do too and then there's the putting (contaminated) pound coins into trollies as well.


Yesterday morning at work, all the trolleys and the entire car park was pressure washed with bleach before opening. I was thinking that whilst every trolley is now clinically clean, they're only clean until the first contaminated hand touches them. As with the baskets, we're trying to wipe the trolley handles or get the customers to do it.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> From the front line, what are your thoughts on people shopping daily and those that just meander around? I can understand the longer hours but I am sure you will still get peak times. ...


Yes, mornings are a peak time and whilst we're limiting the numbers in the store at any one time, the shoppers do tend to all bulk together on aisle three or four... much like traffic does naturally. There's only so much we can do. The shoppers have to sort themselves out really. Some just don't get it. We also have the problem of not being able to open up all the tills as we can't have till staff sitting back to back, which means a long queue on aisle four (2m apart, of course), which means i can't do any work on that aisle until the queue's gone down. It's a balancing act which is working or not in variable degrees.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

I take a sprayer full of Hibiscrub with me and spray/soak the handle prior to touching, I was suprised at Tesco as they were sanitising trolley handles after they had been pushed around by the shoppers for a good while.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Yes, mornings are a peak time and whilst we're limiting the numbers in the store at anyone time, the shoppers do tend to all bulk together on aisle three or four... much like traffic does naturally. There's only so much we can do. The shoppers have to sort themselves out really. Some just don't get it. We also have the problem of not being able to open up all the tills as we can't have till staff sitting back to back, which means a long queue on aisle four (2m apart, of course), which means i can't do any work on that aisle until the queue's gone down. It's a balancing act which is working or not in variable degrees.



Out of interest, what time would you consider best for us to shop?


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> I'll mention it (you) to the checkouts to double check your bag for life .


I always make a point of tipping the bag up after emptying it,to show the check out staff i haven't nicked anything,by leaving an item or two in the bag.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I take a sprayer full of Hibiscrub with me and spray/soak the handle prior to touching, I was suprised at Tesco as they were *sanitising trolley handles after they had been pushed around by the shoppers* for a good while.


We're trying to do that too... but with stock needing to be worked, shoppers needing to be served and not having the luxury of a full team in the store... it's not always possible to clean every handle after every use. But as said, wipes are available for customers to clean their own.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Out of interest, what time would you consider best for us to shop?


I only work in the morning (6am - noon) and there's a queue outside all morning. It might get quieter in the mid/late afternoon, but I'm not there so i really don't know. However my local Iceland and Tesco are very quiet mid-late afternoon when i pop in to grab a few bits.


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## vickster (9 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Inside sources say we have 3 more weeks of this then people's works will be phoning them all back in.


Not sure where your 3 weeks comes from given the financial measures for furlough and support for self employed last 3 months 
We're all still working from home - as is everyone else I know pretty much (other than my SiL who works in a West End theatre and is now doing picking for online orders at Sainsbury's)


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Tesco had 4 people on handle wiping, it just seemed to be in the wrong place.

Please be assured I am extremely grateful to the front line people like yourself MontyVeda, I cannot even start to imagine the stress you are under and if there is anything as shoppers you think we could do better please let us all know.


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## Poacher (9 Apr 2020)

Maybe use of trolleys is being preferred as a means of maintaining distance between shoppers?


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## winjim (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I am glad you agree that the fewer times people venture out the less chance of this killer spreading. Even the very poor can lessen the need to go out, some people with mental problems maybe not so.


For information, that's now covered in the guidance. 







Useful to know as I do use a nice walk or bike ride in the countryside to decompress as a coping mechanism for my autism, but we're lucky enough to live in a suburb on the edge of the city so really I only need to walk to the end of my road. Others may not be so fortunate so it's nice to see them taken into consideration.


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## Joey Shabadoo (9 Apr 2020)

I've been to the supermarket twice in the last three weeks and found it quite stressful. At home I can control things and keep my wife shielded - I've moved a bed into the living room, we have separate bathrooms and *everything* coming into the house is disinfected by spraying or wiping down. At the supermarket I put nitrile gloves on when I go in (disposing of them in the bin by the door when I come out) and pull my cycling buff over my mouth and nose but it's other people who are the hazard. People who have no idea about keeping their distance, people who stop to chat with friends in the aisles and block them. I got snippy with one woman and her son at the cakes section because she was picking them all up, checking the date, then putting them back. I may have called her a farking muppet but it didn't stop her.

Back home it's a case of wiping down the shopping then sticking my clothes in the wash and showering.

How anyone can just nip out to the shops every day bewilders me.

OK, I might be going over the top but I'm not going to kill my wife by being careless.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

To be honest Joey you are doing no different from myself, I also had to tell someone to back away whilst in the supermarket queue to get into the building.


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## winjim (9 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I've been to the supermarket twice in the last three weeks and found it quite stressful. At home I can control things and keep my wife shielded - I've moved a bed into the living room, we have separate bathrooms and *everything* coming into the house is disinfected by spraying or wiping down. At the supermarket I put nitrile gloves on when I go in (disposing of them in the bin by the door when I come out) and pull my cycling buff over my mouth and nose but it's other people who are the hazard. People who have no idea about keeping their distance, people who stop to chat with friends in the aisles and block them. I got snippy with one woman and her son at the cakes section because she was picking them all up, checking the date, then putting them back. I may have called her a farking muppet but it didn't stop her.
> 
> Back home it's a case of wiping down the shopping then sticking my clothes in the wash and showering.
> 
> ...


I've got sympathy with this but we're trying to strike a balance. We get the bulk of our shopping delivered, I did consider wiping it all down or taking it out of the packets but we've got two young kids so I don't want to make the situation any weirder for them than it already is. The four year old knows about the virus obviously but we don't want to make her anxious and paranoid. She seems to be just getting to grips with the change of circumstances.

All this might change of course when we go back to work next week and the kids go to the childminder.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Tesco had 4 people on handle wiping, it just seemed to be in the wrong place.
> 
> Please be assured I am extremely grateful to the front line people like yourself MontyVeda, I cannot even start to imagine the stress you are under and *if there is anything as shoppers you think we could do better please let us all know.*


Probably what you're already doing. Most people on here seem to get it.

If wipes and sanitiser is available then use it on your hands and the handles before _and_ after you shop. This reduces the chance of bringing anything in to the store and also taking anything home with you. I give my debit card a good wipe whilst I'm sanitising my hands after paying.

Use contactless payments when possible... cash is filthy at the best of times.

I've noticed that my local Iceland and Home Bargains don't provide any hand sanitiser. It's probably worth dropping a big hint by informing their till staff that other stores are providing hand sanitiser for their customers to use. This might get fed back to management and they might hopefully follow suit.


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## Stephenite (9 Apr 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Probably what you're already doing. Most people on here seem to get it.
> 
> If wipes and sanitiser is available then use it on your hands and the handles before _and_ after you shop. This reduces the chance of bringing anything in to the store and also taking anything home with you. I give my debit card a good wipe whilst I'm sanitising my hands after paying.
> 
> ...


You must go through a lot of hand sanitiser!

I work at IKEA in Norway.. We are open and have lots of customers. Not as many as normal but we can have about a hundred people in the queue spread over several tills. We have measures in place to keep people separated and reduce the risk of contamination. We wash down surfaces regularly in the checkout. If there is the time after each customer. We don't have hand sanitizer available to the customers though, at least, not in the checkout. We would go through litres of it. When customers ask for it they're encouraged to wash their hands with soap and water in the toilets.


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## MontyVeda (9 Apr 2020)

Stephenite said:


> You must go through a lot of hand sanitiser!
> 
> ...


we've been hoarding it


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

Maybe the Cobra Comittee's motto should be..You're A Disease And I'm The Cure.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Just read this, heart breaking

Coronavirus: Sue Martin describes the trauma of husband being in an ICU 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52229056


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## AuroraSaab (9 Apr 2020)

Heard the ice cream van again this afternoon. Doubt he's enforcing the 2m rule when the kids are queuing.


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## Julia9054 (9 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> Heard the ice cream van again this afternoon. Doubt he's enforcing the 2m rule when the kids are queuing.


Wow! I am amazed he’s still allowed to operate!
Tbh - all I’ve wanted since lockdown is an ice cream!


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## Joey Shabadoo (9 Apr 2020)

This might be useful -


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## tom73 (9 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Wow! I am amazed he’s still allowed to operate!
> Tbh - all I’ve wanted since lockdown is an ice cream!



They are not LA have suspended licences to operate. 
If you see one report it to the LA.


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## Julia9054 (9 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> They are not LA have suspended licences to operate.
> If you see one report it to the LA.


I wasn't actually thinking of having one! 
It's just that now that I can't it's all I can think about


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## perplexed (9 Apr 2020)

Corona virus legislation utilised to shut a pub and a 'vape' shop in Sheffield.

Be interesting to see what happens to the licensee. 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-52219623


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## newfhouse (9 Apr 2020)

Day fourteen of isolation tomorrow. If that was it - who knows? - I think we got off very lightly. Symptoms for both of us never got beyond a slight temperature elevation, a little breathlessness and sore throats.
Anyway, all being well I’ll have a real bike ride on Saturday 

I shall probably visit work on Monday, when there’s unlikely to be anyone there, to do a few things that can’t be done from home.


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## Fab Foodie (9 Apr 2020)

Coronavirus: Significant minority find lockdown 'extremely difficult', poll suggests https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52228169


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## PK99 (9 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yeah but surely trolley handles do too and then there's the putting (contaminated) pound coins into trollies as well.



My Waitrose has a lady wiping handles of trolleys between each use and done away with the 1£ trolley deposit


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## Rusty Nails (9 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> My Waitrose has a lady wiping handles of trolleys between each use and done away with the 1£ trolley deposit



So has the local Sainsburys. But they have a gentleman wiping the handles.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

I'd like this wiping down trolleys,baskets,using hand gel etc to continue after this virus is over(if that ever happens). People are slowly becoming aware of to put it bluntly,how dirty they are and how they pass germs on to other people. Maybe some good will come from this tragic situation!


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## iandg (9 Apr 2020)

Clear still. One of my boys had all the symptoms but didn't get to the state that needed hospital treatment so he wasn't tested and we can only assume he had it and recovered (no option in poll) - he's back at work now in Cameron Toll Sainsburys, Edinburgh


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## Accy cyclist (9 Apr 2020)

I'll give a  to this! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ims-coronavirus-great-leveller-rich-poor.html
For those who won't click the link to DM articles,it's about a news reader who says that the virus is not,as now often stated,a great leveller of rich and poor. She said quote..

_'Hello, good evening.
'The language around Covid-19 has sometimes felt trite and misleading. You do not survive the illness through fortitude and strength of character, whatever the Prime Minister's colleagues will tell us.
'And the disease is not a great leveller, the consequences of which everyone, rich or poor, suffers the same. This is a myth which needs debunking.
'Those on the frontline right now - bus drivers and shelf-stackers, nurses, care home workers, hospital staff and shopkeepers - are disproportionately the lower paid members of our workforce.
'They are more likely to catch the disease because they are more exposed. Those who live in tower blocks and small flats will find the lockdown tougher. Those in manual jobs will be unable to work from home.
'This is a health issue with huge ramifications for social welfare and it's a welfare issue with huge ramifications for public health.
'Tonight as France goes into recession and the World Trade Organization warns the pandemic could provoke the deepest economic downturn of our lifetimes, we ask what kind of social settlement might need to be put in place to stop the inequality becoming even more stark.'_


----------



## PK99 (9 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Day fourteen of isolation tomorrow. If that was it - who knows? - I think we got off very lightly. Symptoms for both of us never got beyond a slight temperature elevation, a little breathlessness and sore throats.



The direct advice from my long term chest consultant (i emailed her a few weeks ago when going down with the bug) was that the probability was of a mild illness, even given my past history.

We have both had "classic" COVID-19 symptoms at the very mild end of the range and are already fully recovered. (A naughty 10 mile walk yesterday!)

I know a number of people, locally and through cycling, who also appear to have had the COVID-19. One is serious (pneumonia on a ventilator) all others have been mild/moderate managed at home. One who at one time looked to be serious had ignored early symptoms and continued a heavy cycling load

Once again, we need to remember the issue is population-level control to protect the NHS from overload - a small serious % of a huge number of infections is still a very large number - that was the message at the start and it is the message now.

It is a great relief to have got off lightly, and I feel great sadness and sympathy for those who do not and for their families, but the data clearly show that most infections are mild.


----------



## newfhouse (9 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Once again, we need to remember the issue is population-level control to protect the NHS from overload - a small serious % of a huge number of infections is still a very large number - that was the message at the start and it is the message now.
> 
> It is a great relief to have got off lightly, and I feel great sadness and sympathy for those who do not and for their families, but the data clearly show that most infections are mild.


100% agreement. I wasn’t downplaying the extent or effect of the pandemic overall, merely noting our apparent inclusion in the fortunate majority. We will continue to comply with the spirit and letter of the current restrictions, for all the reasons you cite.


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## Accy cyclist (10 Apr 2020)

Just heard on the radio that MP's are to receive £10,000 each for their 'hardship' (having to buy laptops to communicate etc) during the lock down! Surely they had fecking laptops before the virus,so why do they need new ones?!


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## PK99 (10 Apr 2020)

View: https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08


Source: NHS Emergency medicine consultant


----------



## Fab Foodie (10 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'll give a  to this! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ims-coronavirus-great-leveller-rich-poor.html
> For those who won't click the link to DM articles,it's about a news reader who says that the virus is not,as now often stated,a great leveller of rich and poor. She said quote..
> 
> _'Hello, good evening.
> ...


She’s not alone....

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-zoom-cleaners-offices?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


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## SpokeyDokey (10 Apr 2020)

Still all good here and Lovely Wife is looking forward to her first NHS Responder mission.


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## DaveReading (10 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> A naughty 10 mile walk yesterday!



I'm not quite sure why that's "naughty", given that there are no regulations forbidding walking. 

Unless it was 10 miles walking up and down the aisles at your local supermarket.


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## pawl (10 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Just read this, heart breaking
> 
> Coronavirus: Sue Martin describes the trauma of husband being in an ICU
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52229056




The prat’s that get caught by the police for flouting the rules should be locked in a room to watch reports and similar ones until they are screaming to be released.and are to quote chapter and verse the correct regulations


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## Joey Shabadoo (10 Apr 2020)

Just a note for anybody about to go shopping, this isn't the best idea -


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## tom73 (10 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just heard on the radio that MP's are to receive £10,000 each for their 'hardship' (having to buy laptops to communicate etc) during the lock down! Surely they had fecking laptops before the virus,so why do they need new ones?!



It's worse then that they've also told they no longer have to send in any proof for anything. The limit of the MP's credit cards has been put up too. Quite few already had the cards taken of them due being investigated for miss use before all this.


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## Accy cyclist (10 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> It's worse then that they've also told they no longer have to send in any proof for anything. The limit of the MP's credit cards has been put up too. Quite few already had the cards taken of them due being investigated for miss use before all this.


Yeah but don't forget.... we're all in this together!


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## newfhouse (10 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> this isn't the best idea -


Not enough beer?


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## fossyant (10 Apr 2020)

I think CV-19 is in MIL's nursing home. They've had a few deaths (as you'd expect in a care home) but it's more than usual, and had three rooms next to each other that residents are poorly. Limited info coming out, and only because my SIL is working there. It's not been on MIL's 'nursing care' floor though - probably stricter controlls.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> I'm not quite sure why that's "naughty", given that there are no regulations forbidding walking.
> 
> Unless it was 10 miles walking up and down the aisles at your local supermarket.



In the non essential aisle🤫


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## C R (10 Apr 2020)

The daughter of a friend of a friend of my wife, 26, just qualified as a doctor, died yesterday from coronavirus. 

Every time you leave the house, think, do I really really need to be out, and spare a thought for the people who have no choice but to put their lives on the line day after day.


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## tom73 (10 Apr 2020)

But still if you ask any of them they say we are only doing our job. 
I keep telling Mrs 73 no your not it's now more than that.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Still all good here and Lovely Wife is looking forward to her first NHS Responder mission.



Done 13 hours on duty so far, but no alerts come through yet.


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## Mrs M (10 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> The daughter of a friend of a friend of my wife, 26, just qualified as a doctor, died yesterday from coronavirus.
> 
> Every time you leave the house, think, do I really really need to be out, and spare a thought for the people who have no choice but to put their lives on the line day after day.


So sad to hear this.
Awful times.
A colleague lost a child this week.
Living nightmare.


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## vickster (10 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Done 13 hours on duty so far, but no alerts come through yet.


ditto, but 20 hours here


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Inside sources say we have 3 more weeks of this then people's works will be phoning them all back in.



That will not be the case for my colleagues. We’re working non-stop to equip ~500 government staff with the IT kit to allow them to work from home and are only about 1/3rd through after two weeks. It’s a major undertaking in terms of equipment, logistics, security considerations and ongoing support.

It is certainly not the sort of response that would be considered for a period that would be measured in weeks. This will be for several months.

Who are these ‘inside sources’?


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## Milzy (10 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That will not be the case for my colleagues. We’re working non-stop to equip ~500 government staff with the IT kit to allow them to work from home and are only about 1/3rd through after two weeks. It’s a major undertaking in terms of equipment, logistics, security considerations and ongoing support.
> 
> It is certainly not the sort of response that would be considered for a period that would be measured in weeks. This will be for several months.
> 
> Who are these ‘inside sources’?


Someone high up in the South Yorkshire NHS. If next week is a true peak then you'd think actually mid May would be a reasonably safe time to unlock.


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## Slick (10 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Someone high up in the South Yorkshire NHS. If next week is a true peak then you'd think actually mid May would be a reasonably safe time to unlock.


The company I work for have set a target date for the 25th of May but it's more to aid with planning as any knowledge or information.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (10 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Someone high up in the South Yorkshire NHS



Ok, that’s still pretty vague. And when you said inside sources I took that to be people actually involved in the decision-making process of lifting the restrictions.


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## Milzy (10 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Ok, that’s still pretty vague. And when you said inside sources I took that to be people actually involved in the decision-making process of lifting the restrictions.


Don't know the advisors of Bojo sorry. Next week is going to be hell. They have people who were working happily from home deployed into hospitals with or without adequate PPE


----------



## marinyork (11 Apr 2020)

Out in the garden. Despite having not left the house since Wednesday this is really nice.

Only blot on it is a neighbour has developed a cough the last 24 hours... . I can hear it it's so quiet. This is the neighbour that has three household mixing most days.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Apr 2020)

All good here, nice weather for sitting in garden helps.


----------



## fossyant (11 Apr 2020)

In the garden listening to the live Hacienda Tunes being streamed 

https://unitedwestream.co.uk/

Mrs F sat outside, having just cut out 10 sets of 'scrubs' and she's now sewing them up for a local group that's co-ordinating them.


----------



## PK99 (11 Apr 2020)

I'm still doing ok health wise, but a cycling club colleague died of Covid-19 earlier today.


----------



## pawl (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> I'm still doing ok health wise, but a cycling club colleague died of Covid-19 earlier today.



Sorry to hear that.


----------



## Slick (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> I'm still doing ok health wise, but a cycling club colleague died of Covid-19 earlier today.


Really sorry to hear that.


----------



## cyberknight (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> I'm still doing ok health wise, but a cycling club colleague died of Covid-19 earlier today.


----------



## MontyVeda (12 Apr 2020)

Found out yesterday that one of my close friends has been holed up in quarantine with corvid19... works locally for the NHS and was tested positive 2 or 3 weeks ago. Wasn't hospitalised but was apparently very ill for a couple of weeks, and his wife got it (mildly) plus his kids had symptoms but only for a couple of days. He's due back at work on Tuesday.


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## Fab Foodie (12 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> I'm still doing ok health wise, but a cycling club colleague died of Covid-19 earlier today.


Dreadful news :-(. About your clubmate that is.. .glad you’re doing OK!


----------



## gbb (12 Apr 2020)

Thoughts go out to anyone directly or indirectly effected by the virus...
Ok here, still working, havnt heard of anyone I know being affected. Walked the dog this morning and bearing in mind it's a large sprawling estate, it feels more like village life 40 years ago, quite quiet and relaxed. Perhaps the one good thing will be people are relaxed as the pace of life has slowed down.


----------



## Dave7 (12 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> I'm not quite sure why that's "naughty", given that there are no regulations forbidding walking.
> .


Not if he can walk 10 miles in one hour


----------



## AuroraSaab (12 Apr 2020)

Well much to my surprise I find I have something in common with Boris Johnson. We both love the Tintin books. Glad he's recovered and looking forward to the memes.


----------



## marinyork (12 Apr 2020)

Ambulance sent for my father. He's gone somewhere in an ambulance. He's not been out of the house for the last three weeks apart from escaping to the shops a couple of times, which I tried to stop. I've also had no contact with anyone apart from shopping for four weeks - not used public transport in seven weeks. Minimal-ish contact those three weeks before the four weeks.

It's the breathlessness, high temperature and cough that he, the paramedics and 111 are worried about. He was in hospital for this 6 weeks ago (I can't remember with the weeks at the moment if you know what I mean) and then discharged after lengthy observations and tests where they decided he hasn't got covid-19 and observe anyway. He wanted to go to the pod testing centre today, although things are so bad now I'm not sure that's even running, I think it's within the hospital itself (maybe that's where he's gone).

I don't think he's got coronavirus, that is what worries me going anywhere near hospital right now for anything but kidney failure, heart failure and so on seems utter madness. He's been coughing more occasionally for most of the last 5 weeks (as opposed to next door's cough, which again as it's been very quiet today I do wonder about and can hear it from the other side of the wall especially with windows open).

The ambulance crew wore surgical masks. I worry for them.

Ah well. You do your best.


----------



## Rocky (12 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Ambulance sent for my father. He's gone somewhere in an ambulance. He's not been out of the house for the last three weeks apart from escaping to the shops a couple of times, which I tried to stop. I've also had no contact with anyone apart from shopping for four weeks - not used public transport in seven weeks. Minimal-ish contact those three weeks before the four weeks.
> 
> It's the breathlessness, high temperature and cough that he, the paramedics and 111 are worried about. He was in hospital for this 6 weeks ago (I can't remember with the weeks at the moment if you know what I mean) and then discharged after lengthy observations and tests where they decided he hasn't got covid-19 and observe anyway. He wanted to go to the pod testing centre today, although things are so bad now I'm not sure that's even running, I think it's within the hospital itself (maybe that's where he's gone).
> 
> ...


I’m so sorry to hear this. I do hope he is ok. Here’s sending strength to you and your family.


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## marinyork (12 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I’m so sorry to hear this. I do hope he is ok. Here’s sending strength to you and your family.



Thanks. I hope your son is doing well.


----------



## Rocky (12 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Thanks. I hope your son is doing well.


Thanks - he’s now day 5 and has fever, cough and tiredness. No red flag signs yet. And we are hoping he stays like that.......day 7 is the crucial one, apparently.


----------



## theclaud (12 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Ambulance sent for my father. He's gone somewhere in an ambulance. He's not been out of the house for the last three weeks apart from escaping to the shops a couple of times, which I tried to stop. I've also had no contact with anyone apart from shopping for four weeks - not used public transport in seven weeks. Minimal-ish contact those three weeks before the four weeks.
> 
> It's the breathlessness, high temperature and cough that he, the paramedics and 111 are worried about. He was in hospital for this 6 weeks ago (I can't remember with the weeks at the moment if you know what I mean) and then discharged after lengthy observations and tests where they decided he hasn't got covid-19 and observe anyway. He wanted to go to the pod testing centre today, although things are so bad now I'm not sure that's even running, I think it's within the hospital itself (maybe that's where he's gone).
> 
> ...


Crikey Marin. You must be worried. Wishing your dad all the best for a full recovery.


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## Accy cyclist (12 Apr 2020)

This horrible fecker's at it again! https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....harwood-scrapyard-boss-tommy-smith-sentenced/
Well,not exactly him as he's in prison,but his lackeys no doubt get their orders from him while he's 'inside' to carry on the vile anti social,danger to public health, plastic coated copper wire incinerating! For the last week or so i've kept getting a smell of plastic/chemicals in the air. I've mentioned it to about 7 other people and they've all said they can smell it too.
Why am i posting this on here you may ask. Well,it's because for the first day i got a bit paranoid thinking i might have a C19 symptom,as my throat just didn't feel right. Now i know why! It's the local version of Al Capone up to his evil ways again..polluting the atmosphere! I stopped and asked a PCSO the other day who told me 'yes,he's at it again,but not as bad' By not as bad he said they aren't burning 24/7 like before. He also said the police now have to start at the bottom again in giving him warnings,then having to wait for their response,then more formal warnings and more waits for a response and so on and so on! This f..ker is public enemy number one to many around here! You'd think with C!9 going on and folk very concerned for their health, someone would just torch the bastards operation asap!!


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## Fab Foodie (13 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Ambulance sent for my father. He's gone somewhere in an ambulance. He's not been out of the house for the last three weeks apart from escaping to the shops a couple of times, which I tried to stop. I've also had no contact with anyone apart from shopping for four weeks - not used public transport in seven weeks. Minimal-ish contact those three weeks before the four weeks.
> 
> It's the breathlessness, high temperature and cough that he, the paramedics and 111 are worried about. He was in hospital for this 6 weeks ago (I can't remember with the weeks at the moment if you know what I mean) and then discharged after lengthy observations and tests where they decided he hasn't got covid-19 and observe anyway. He wanted to go to the pod testing centre today, although things are so bad now I'm not sure that's even running, I think it's within the hospital itself (maybe that's where he's gone).
> 
> ...


Fingers crossed. Not easy when you can’t be there and have to deal with this stuff remotely :-/


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## alicat (13 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> Ah well. You do your best.



And that's all you can do. Sending love and hugs as you sit in these times of uncertainty, @marinyork.


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## MrGrumpy (13 Apr 2020)

Slightly of topic I suppose a large car dealership is planning to reopen doors in 3 weeks. All have been shut round here in fact not many car/garages open. Seem to have a plan around the balance of using online and social distancing. I suppose if they don't open soon it will be curtains possibly for some ?


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## marinyork (13 Apr 2020)

theclaud said:


> Crikey Marin. You must be worried. Wishing your dad all the best for a full recovery.



Thanks. Been kept in on a ward. Tests and observations. The medical staff again do not believe my Dad has coronavirus for broadly similar reasons I don't, as well as for medical notes from six weeks ago and tests in both time periods (some done last night and results in at dinnertime) as well as some of their colleagues elsewhere in the hospital knowing a thing or two about what coronavirus looks like in patients with similar underlying health conditions.


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## gbb (13 Apr 2020)

Today, I am mostly seething.
I shouldn't say it because some of you might be really struggling financially if you've been furloughed but right now, I'd jump at the chance.
Busy day at work and while the company have made big efforts to get staff to socially distance....some, many, possibly most , just don't get it. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, a language thing, whatever...but they're just not getting it.
I'm working on a machine, tbf my stress levels are up a bit, it's been a hard day but as I work on it, there are 4 people all within 3ft of me, offering opinions, watching, yakking away so I asked..
'C'mon guys, give me some room, we're supposed to be socially distancing '
Someone sniggered and said something in another language, one coughed, perhaps genuinely but no-one moved back.
Instantly stopped work and went off to get their supervisor..
'Can we get them something to do, they're too close, I've asked them to move away'
And so it happened but half an hour later, two of them are back so as supervisor appeared again I said...
'I'm going home...now...if I don't get some space'
And so they got shooed off again.
They're not bad folks but they just don't get the seriousness of it.
Tomorrow, I'm going to ruffle some feathers, I'm that peed off. H&S in all probability.


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## Stephenite (13 Apr 2020)

gbb said:


> Today, I am mostly seething.
> I shouldn't say it because some of you might be really struggling financially if you've been furloughed but right now, I'd jump at the chance.
> Busy day at work and while the company have made big efforts to get staff to socially distance....some, many, possibly most , just don't get it. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, a language thing, whatever...but they're just not getting it.
> I'm working on a machine, tbf my stress levels are up a bit, it's been a hard day but as I work on it, there are 4 people all within 3ft of me, offering opinions, watching, yakking away so I asked..
> ...


It seems the message hasn't gotten through. Where I work we've people from all over. There are signs up in several languages outlining the guidelines, and the leaders and shift leaders are on message and pass this on this info, and reminders when necessary. I hope it gets sorted out.


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## alicat (13 Apr 2020)

Walk out, @gbb. That will show you mean business and I bet they treat you with more respect after that.


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## Accy cyclist (14 Apr 2020)

Two piss me off incidents to report. Our voluntary gardening and general tidying up,at the park up the road has been suspended. Two of the volunteers were verbally abused by a motorist the other day. According to them,a bloke wound his car window down and said they were wasting water (I didn't know we had a water shortage,says sarcastically) and not social distancing,threatening to report them if he saw them doing it again. I'd have told him to feck right off,but they're both in their late 60's and don't want the hassle. I asked for the keys to the shed that holds the gardening tools and water pipe,but they said it was best not to carry on as they feared he might phone for the police. I know the police would not bother as they aren't/weren't doing anything illegal,but they didn't see it that way.
Then yesterday as i was walking across my local cricket club's field i was followed by a pompous looking bloke who caught me up as i sat down on a bench. He said i shouldn't be on the field as i could be leaving the virus behind if i had it. That's the first i've heard of this being a possibility. I asked him why then was he allowed to walk across the field. 'Because i'm the chief executive of the club' he replied. 'Now if you don't mind,i'd like you to turn around and walk back to the entrance you came through' he said in a snooty fashion. I called him a J Arthur Ranker and carried on walking to the exit on the other side of the field. Honestly! Some idiots are just so up themselves during this crisis!


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## alicat (14 Apr 2020)

Gulp! @Accy cyclist. I read that as you sitting down while trespassing. Sitting down isn't exercise of itself - if it is, I need a medal. And everyone can leave the virus on surfaces such as when you put a hand on an armrest.

So in that bloke's shoes I might have been a lot less polite....


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## Milzy (14 Apr 2020)

Friends uncle died of C19 last night. That's a couple in my local area now.


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## Accy cyclist (14 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> Gulp! @Accy cyclist. I read that as you sitting down while trespassing. Sitting down isn't exercise of itself - if it is, I need a medal. And everyone can leave the virus on surfaces such as when you put a hand on an armrest.
> 
> So in that bloke's shoes I might have been a lot less polite....


I sat down for a few seconds and i wasn't trespassing,as the club usually allows folk to walk on the field. He was just trying to be the 'i'm so official'. As i came back from my walk/exercise about 2 hours later i saw two blokes doing some sort of yoga on the field.


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## iandg (14 Apr 2020)

Struggling mentally. Asked for (and prescribed) an increase to my daily dose of anti-depressant


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## marinyork (14 Apr 2020)

My Dad's home. He did have the coronavirus test (which surprised me) and this came back negative late last night - this sounded like a case of weekend syndrome where a lot of tests were done in batches over the bank holiday (see below). 

He saw a consultant this morning and then told could be discharged. Was told it might be a few hours, perhaps from habit, then as an aside the consultant looked around and said yeah it might be a lot quicker than that! He got discharged 45 mins later and sent off to patient transport where people were kept well apart, being driven 1 person at a time. The patient transport had a lot more PPE than the ambulance the other day and was disinfecting most of the vehicle. 

Mostly worried as I was the other day that he will have picked the virus up in hospital. Same ward . Find out in a few days and hopefully not going back. The ward was 50% full apparently. Every patient without exception is being tested on there this time and a member of staff said they believe they are doing more testing than nearly anywhere else in the UK and many, many staff have been tested and were done so a while ago. A rota for testing is in existence for staff on that ward (frequency unknown but it sounds like it's every 3-4 days) which is organised by the ward manager and infection control. Apparently even ages ago when the drive pod was installed a sizeable number of staff were using it. The two people in his bay had already tested negative and being kept in for other things.


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## marinyork (14 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Struggling mentally. Asked for (and prescribed) an increase to my daily dose of anti-depressant



So sorry to hear this.

Nationally every area of the country is supposed to be setting up a 24 hour telephone line for people having mental health problems with the virus. This is seens as being some weeks away depending on where you live. No, it's not the NHS workers one, it's everyone. 

I know this sucks, but you may be able to get a bit of support from this or something someone else is running.


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## marinyork (14 Apr 2020)

Additionally if anyone is having a talking therapy, video is coming on stream in the next few weeks for some (in theory). This has been infuriatingly slow because it appears from a lack of planning and immediately a lack of knowledge still about technology and how that interacts with safeguarding and confidentiality.


----------



## DCLane (14 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I sat down for a few seconds and i wasn't trespassing,as the club usually allows folk to walk on the field. He was just trying to be the 'i'm so official'. As i came back from my walk/exercise about 2 hours later i saw two blokes doing some sort of yoga on the field.



This clamp-down has given the naturally officious a free license to abuse others, or apparently so. They have no official role, purpose or activity but like to think so.

Telling them to "get stuffed" in your own way's probably the best route. Arguing simply lowers you to their level.


----------



## marinyork (14 Apr 2020)

More tales from A&E/wards, which I didn't have as my dad had half an hour of charge on a phone - enough to get three short calls and the significance of yesterday becoming clear. My Dad said if you didn't have a charged phone, that was it, you might never hear from your family again.

In A&E my Dad was questioned about his movements for the last five weeks whilst he wore a mask. Full PPE. My mother's movements were asked about. My movements and particulars were asked about. Have any of the rest of us or anyone you can possibly think of had any colds/persistent cough? Apparently the answers to questions were relief. He was given a chest X-ray which came back very early which I didn't know specifically about and other tests were encouraging. 

On one of the two wards almost the same thing was gone through again with advice for the 12 weekers club. Some of the 12 weekers club are um, not sticking to social shielding apparently (sounds like my chuffing neighbour across the road actually). The 12 weekers are also being given advice on shielding and that you can't rely on immunity in the go between, they have to be very careful. The advice is if your carer/supposedly healthy relative/helper goes down and is unavailable or incapacitated then get in touch immediately with the army of helpers. Don't start randomly going out meeting other households and doing small shops. On one ward my father was kept isolated in a room on his own until more results came back (they were basically initially checking for absolute certain he wasn't somewhere around day 6-10 of the disease). On the other ward it was 50% full and social distancing gaps with beds in an zig-zag formation. 

My dad was told by the consultant there is 'substantial' evidence he's never had the virus due to his particular circumstances in his case and to not listen to anyone who says 'you've probably had it', that this is simply wrong. He was also told he 'likely' has 'no immunity whatsoever' and a reasoning of precisely why this was the case and what it would likely mean if he got the coronavirus and why the staff didn't want that to happen. He was also told that whilst they couldn't stop people getting the virus what he was doing was the right thing in contrast to some cases in the other special wing of the hospital.


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## Gazjacko (14 Apr 2020)

Due to an underlying respiratory condition I am ‘shielding ‘ I’ve ridden my bike south on the turbo and north on the turbo ( not enough room for E or W) , and frankly I’m getting a bit bored.
My concern is that I’ll only be let out once a vaccine is found so 12 weeks goes to 12 months!


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## Joey Shabadoo (14 Apr 2020)

Unbelievably, my neighbours are having a party. About a dozen of them in the back garden playing with a PA and a karaoke.


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## dodgy (14 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Unbelievably, my neighbours are having a party. About a dozen of them in the back garden playing with a PA and a karaoke.



Do you have a hose? Also, phone 101.


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## Mugshot (15 Apr 2020)

With the chance of a decent haircut looking pretty remote in the near future I've been considering a few style options, I thought perhaps a few of you would like some inspiration too, so here's some ideas I've been looking at;


----------



## Rusty Nails (15 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> With the chance of a decent haircut looking pretty remote in the near future I've been considering a few style options, I thought perhaps a few of you would like some inspiration too, so here's some ideas I've been looking at;
> 
> View attachment 515316



I had a couple of almost those styles 50 years ago. 3rd row down far right was mine from around 1966 to 1972. I wish I could aspire to something like that now.


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## Mugshot (15 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I had a couple of almost those styles 50 years ago. 3rd row down far right was mine from around 1966 to 1972. I wish I could aspire to something like that now.


I'm quite drawn to no. 2 or 4.


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## perplexed (15 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> With the chance of a decent haircut looking pretty remote in the near future I've been considering a few style options, I thought perhaps a few of you would like some inspiration too, so here's some ideas I've been looking at;
> 
> View attachment 515316



Cripes, I wasn't far off bottom row, first on the left, about 1981. 

Chance'd be a fine thing now.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Apr 2020)

Good here. Did a walk today to maintain bone health


----------



## Julia9054 (15 Apr 2020)

Jonathan Ross‘s school photo?


----------



## stephec (15 Apr 2020)

gbb said:


> Today, I am mostly seething.
> I shouldn't say it because some of you might be really struggling financially if you've been furloughed but right now, I'd jump at the chance.
> Busy day at work and while the company have made big efforts to get staff to socially distance....some, many, possibly most , just don't get it. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, a language thing, whatever...but they're just not getting it.
> I'm working on a machine, tbf my stress levels are up a bit, it's been a hard day but as I work on it, there are 4 people all within 3ft of me, offering opinions, watching, yakking away so I asked..
> ...


That's my experience as well, I'm a service engineer mainly in food and pharma factories, although the pharma places are not too keen to let us in at the moment. 

In food some are working that flat out that we aren't able to stop production for planned maintenance, and the ones who do let us in all have signs up, but as you say they're not always paid attention to. 

A few times last week I had to put my tools down and walk away after requests were ignored, so this week I booked holidays as I've got plenty left still.


----------



## Levo-Lon (16 Apr 2020)

So KFC are opening 11 branches for delivery only.
CEO says all staff are social distancing...really, must be a huge kitchen then..

We cant in our large ish care home kitchen and I doubt it's even possible unless it's 2 workers only

I'd like to see CCTV of these KFC staff complying....then the CEO can talk us through it


----------



## stephec (16 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> So KFC are opening 11 branches for delivery only.
> CEO says all staff are social distancing...really, must be a huge kitchen then..
> 
> We cant in our large ish care home kitchen and I doubt it's even possible unless it's 2 workers only
> ...


Would anyone trust takeaway food at the moment? 

I know buying stuff from the supermarket still has risks, but you're more in control of the final product as opposed to having ready made food dropped on your doorstep. 

And I write this as someone who loves a weekly KFC.


----------



## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> Would anyone trust takeaway food at the moment?
> 
> I know buying stuff from the supermarket still has risks, but you're more in control of the final product as opposed to having ready made food dropped on your doorstep.
> 
> And I write this as someone who loves a weekly KFC.


I had a curry a few weeks ago, delivery, no issue, the food was hot. Did need reheating as is often the case!


----------



## DCLane (16 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> Would anyone trust takeaway food at the moment?
> 
> I know buying stuff from the supermarket still has risks, but you're more in control of the final product as opposed to having ready made food dropped on your doorstep.
> 
> And I write this as someone who loves a weekly KFC.



You'd be OK if you followed this sort of routine * :

Remove inner containers from outer container/bag and dispose of outer containers/bags
Wash hands
Decant hot food from inner container onto plate/bowl/dish, without touching the plate/bowl/dish, and dispose of inner containers
Wash hands
Re-heat if necessary
Eat food
* Note that this is hypothetical: As an 'athlete' I don't eat takeaways


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## MrGrumpy (16 Apr 2020)

Well potential for two colleagues to be going off due to this COVID virus. One has we think already had it however........ his Mrs works in a care home , 3 of her staff have now come up + , she’s being tested tomorrow.... no symptoms showing yet. So could be 14 days self isolating. Second colleague has phoned in sick , has a temp ...... that’s not looking good neither ? 7 days at least self isolating could be more if not getting better . We have changed rotas at work and did as much as we can to enable social distancing...:.. Starting to think it makes not a jot of difference. You just can’t control everything


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## stephec (16 Apr 2020)

Not to cast aspersions on takeaway staff but it's more the knowing of what/who has been in contact with your food. 

I go in food factories most days for work so I can see the process involved in packaging food, it makes it a lot easier when it comes to picking stuff off the shelf. 

We had a guy who worked with us who'd regularly come in say, 'I'm not eating so and so ever again,' after visiting certain places. 😂


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## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

The restaurant I ordered from has a 5/5 food safety rating and specified bringing in further specific CV19 measures. I’m fine and that was 3 weeks ago!
that said I wasn’t concerned, far more likely to pick it up from someone while buying food in a supermarket!


----------



## Levo-Lon (16 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> The restaurant I ordered from has a 5/5 food safety rating and specified bringing in further specific CV19 measures. I’m fine and that was 3 weeks ago!




Our kitchen is 5star, I wouldn't have awarded it that..
On the plus it's nearly all cook from frozen with only salad and fruit being prepared. 

The kitchen staff are basically care workers and a hairdresser 

We used to have a cook fresh daily cook and independent catering staff but at 12k a month we had to make cuts, cuts unfortunately mean cuts in everything. 

So don't always assume a top rating is a guarantee of hygiene and food quality.

That said the food here is rather good and costs the residents £2.65 a day for 3 course meal.

I've eaten many and enjoy them.
Residents moan about everything but this is just normal old folk


----------



## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Our kitchen is 5star, I wouldn't have awarded it that..
> On the plus it's nearly all cook from frozen with only salad and fruit being prepared.
> 
> The kitchen staff are basically care workers and a hairdresser
> ...


that's a food safety rating, not a quality rating. It was pretty good (albeit not quite heat hot enough but that's always the case coming from a few miles away) , not much else open and delivering. After the lockdown, I'll give the restaurant itself a go 

I'd usually just get a Waitrose ready meal, but there's not much in the way of non meat options, and even more limited right now (while the restaurant does every option with prawns or veg, plus lots more veg dishes )


----------



## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

Still good today. Resting Heart Rate was 45 this morning, so in it's normal range. Blood pressure also showing up 109/74, so all good.


----------



## Milzy (16 Apr 2020)

Riding around I've found lots of factories still open. One close by making children's play ground equipment. Must be essential for the little kiddie winks.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (16 Apr 2020)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Many of the restaurants here (Holland) are doing takeaways. There's one round the corner that is doing a four course meal this Sunday for the price of a starter. Snackbars are open as well. It's only McDonald's and Burger King that seem to be closed.



Are those amazing little hot food takeaways still going out there? Feefo or something similar? Insert a coin, lift the lid, grab the food item and off you go.

Would be great over here in the current circumstances.


----------



## The Crofted Crest (16 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Are those amazing little hot food takeaways still going out there? Feefo or something similar? Insert a coin, lift the lid, grab the food item and off you go.
> 
> Would be great over here in the current circumstances.



Febo.






The challenge is to do a diagonal. Start at the bottom left or right and work your way up to the top right or left, eating everything you come across on the way. The also have contactless machines.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (16 Apr 2020)

The Crofted Crest said:


> Febo.
> View attachment 515498
> 
> 
> The challenge is to do a diagonal. Start at the bottom left or right and work your way up to the top right or left, eating everything you come across on the way. The also have contactless machines.



Ah Febo! Thanks very much. What a brilliant concept - very handy for late night addled, but hungry, tourists!


----------



## numbnuts (16 Apr 2020)

I've been bored today


----------



## Levo-Lon (16 Apr 2020)

numbnuts said:


> I've been bored today




I've been as busy as fook, oh to be board for a while


----------



## Julia9054 (16 Apr 2020)

numbnuts said:


> I've been bored today


I'm bored too. Missing school and missing the kids


----------



## cyberknight (16 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I'm bored too. Missing school and missing the kids


Lend you some mine have got cabin fever crazies


----------



## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> Would anyone trust takeaway food at the moment?
> 
> I know buying stuff from the supermarket still has risks, but you're more in control of the final product as opposed to having ready made food dropped on your doorstep.
> 
> And I write this as someone who loves a weekly KFC.



Yep been having fish and chips once a week. I neutralise any virus with a layer of mushy peas.


----------



## stephec (16 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yep been having fish and chips once a week. I neutralise any virus with a layer of mushy peas.


At last a sensible answer. 😂

Coincidentally, on my stroll earlier I noticed our local chippy is still open with barriers to queue along outside, although it was never that good in the first place so I'm not tempted.


----------



## C R (16 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yep been having fish and chips once a week. I neutralise any virus with a layer of mushy peas.


Lucky you, our chippy has been closed for about a month now.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> Lucky you, our chippy has been closed for about a month now.



Our normal one is closed but another is open. You ring your order ahead then head down to wait outside. Verdict is that chips and mushy peas better than our usual but fish not as good. Generous portions. Yep lucky this one has stayed open. Family run so at least they can staff it well enough.


----------



## C R (16 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Our normal one is closed but another is open. You ring your order ahead then head down to wait outside. Verdict is that chips and mushy peas better than our usual but fish not as good. Generous portions. Yep lucky this one has stayed open. Family run so at least they can staff it well enough.


Ours is family run too, same with the Chinese next door to it. Don't quite understand why neither of them open for phone orders.


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> Ours is family run too, same with the Chinese next door to it. Don't quite understand why neither of them open for phone orders.


I should think Chinese take aways are getting a hard time of it now.


----------



## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I should think Chinese take aways are getting a hard time of it now.


Bat chow mein taken off the specials menu


----------



## Accy cyclist (16 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I should think Chinese take aways are getting a hard time of it now.


The one about 60 yards from my flat is up for sale. They're probably jumping the gun and trying to sell it before the lockdown is lifted,expecting a big drop in customers. I've only been in once. I called in one night to buy fish and peas. The owner asked me to pay up front,which i found a bit offensive. Then when i got home and saw the fish it looked like one of those pack of 4 battered ones they sell frozen in supermarkets for about 3 quid. It was probably about the size of 5 fish fingers and cost(the peas were 50p for about a spoonful) £3.50!!


----------



## Stephenite (16 Apr 2020)

I don't have a chippy (nearby).


----------



## Stephenite (16 Apr 2020)

Home schooling today after the Easter break. Boy 1 has forgotten absolutely everything he has ever learned. 4 times 6? Dunno. Hmm, 6 plus 6? Er... 13?


----------



## Unkraut (17 Apr 2020)

Stephenite said:


> I don't have a chippy (nearby).


My nearest chippy is about 460 miles away.


----------



## Gunk (17 Apr 2020)

We’re all just starting to get on each other’s nerves, the divorce rate will go up when the lock down finishes.


----------



## perplexed (17 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> My nearest chippy is about 460 miles away.



What do you fancy? I've got a strong throwing arm.


----------



## Low Gear Guy (17 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> My nearest chippy is about 460 miles away.


Does that include the frites stalls of Belgium?


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Apr 2020)

I had a severe craving for a takeaway burger and chips yesterday so resorted to Just Eats.

Not used them before, but it all worked as it should.

I placed an order for 6pm delivery - opening time for the burger place.

Just Eats are doing social distance delivery by dropping the food on the front door step.

There was a knock on my door at 6pm prompt, although the delivery man handed me the bag rather than leaving it.

The food was still hot and up to expectations.

All I would say is it's an expensive way to eat a takeaway - £10.95 plus two quid for delivery.


----------



## pawl (17 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Does that include the frites stalls of Belgium?


 

Report of national disaster in Belgium


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Some great news! I've just heard that you aren't allowed to buy paint or paint brushes as it's not classed as essential shopping. I've had some emulsion in a tin for a year,waiting for me to find the enthusiasm to touch up my kitchen and bathroom, but also, i haven't a decent emulsion brush. Now i'm not allowed to buy one,so no painting for me!!!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> My nearest chippy is about 460 miles away.



Essential journey?


----------



## icowden (17 Apr 2020)

You can buy what you want on Amazon Accy


----------



## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Wife has headache and sore throat and low on energy. Hopefully not early signs of anything to worry about.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> You can buy what you want on Amazon Accy


I know,but i don't buy stuff from Amazon.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Some great news! I've just heard that you aren't allowed to buy paint or paint brushes as it's not classed as essential shopping. I've had some emulsion in a tin for a year,waiting for me to find the enthusiasm to touch up my kitchen and bathroom, but also, i haven't a decent emulsion brush. Now i'm not allowed to buy one,so no painting for me!!!



You know you can make a paint brush from twigs and the fur off a cat?


----------



## vickster (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You know you can make a paint brush from twigs and the fur off a cat?


Attach the dog to a broom handle? 

Or just use eBay?


----------



## Julia9054 (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Some great news! I've just heard that you aren't allowed to buy paint or paint brushes as it's not classed as essential shopping. I've had some emulsion in a tin for a year,waiting for me to find the enthusiasm to touch up my kitchen and bathroom, but also, i haven't a decent emulsion brush. Now i'm not allowed to buy one,so no painting for me!!!


Sell it for an extortionate price. Now you can’t buy it, everyone will want it!


----------



## pawl (17 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Sell it for an extortionate price. Now you can’t buy it, everyone will want it!



Good job dave r has finished his mega decorating operation.


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Some great news! I've just heard that you aren't allowed to buy paint or paint brushes as it's not classed as essential shopping. I've had some emulsion in a tin for a year,waiting for me to find the enthusiasm to touch up my kitchen and bathroom, but also, i haven't a decent emulsion brush. Now i'm not allowed to buy one,so no painting for me!!!


Screwfix were selling them, they were also in Homebargains.


----------



## Low Gear Guy (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You know you can make a paint brush from twigs and the fur off a cat?


Have you tried shearing a cat?


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Screwfix were selling them, they were also in Homebargains.


I'm just gonna have to report this! What's that number for informing on those breaking the lockdown rules?


----------



## Julia9054 (17 Apr 2020)

In other news, today I have washed the windows. Looking forward to saving money on the leccy by not having the lights on all the time.


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm just gonna have to report this! What's that number for informing on those breaking the lockdown rules?


Breaking what rules? If you go in to Homebargains for food, what is wrong with picking up a paintbrush or anything else they sell, same for Screwfix, as ALL building suppliers/hardware stores have been told they can open, some are making decisions themselves about what they deem to be essential items, but if they are selling anything, what difference does selling something else make (if they are open, they are open).


----------



## pawl (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You know you can make a paint brush from twigs and the fur off a cat?
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Call the RSPCA and the Forestry Commision.Out break of bald cats and twig less trees


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Breaking what rules? If you go in to Homebargains for food, what is wrong with picking up a paintbrush or anything else they sell, same for Screwfix, as ALL building suppliers/hardware stores have been told they can open, some are making decisions themselves about what they deem to be essential items, but if they are selling anything, what difference does selling something else make (if they are open, they are open).


Interpret the rules as to how you'd like them to be. Yes,that's the spirit(!)


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## Julia9054 (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You know you can make a paint brush from twigs and the fur off a cat?


We could make paintbrushes from the offcuts from all these lockdown haircuts people are having


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Interpret the rules as to how you'd like them to be. Yes,that's the spirit(!)


It's not interpreting the rules how I like, if a store has been allowed to open, such as ALL building suppliers/hardware stores have, they are OPEN.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> It's not interpreting the rules how I like, if a store has been allowed to open, such as ALL building suppliers/hardware stores have, they are OPEN.


So you go to the store just to buy essential food,then just happen to see a paint brush and think "Hey look, there are some paint brushes over there! That reminds me, i need to paint my walls,i think i'll buy one"!


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> Would anyone trust takeaway food at the moment?
> 
> I know buying stuff from the supermarket still has risks, but you're more in control of the final product as opposed to having ready made food dropped on your doorstep.
> 
> And I write this as someone who loves a weekly KFC.


FYI -just ordering a take-out....


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> I've been as busy as fook, oh to be board for a while


You and me both!


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> So you go to the store just to buy essential food,then just happen to see a paint brush and think "Hey look, there are some paint brushes over there! That reminds me, i need to paint my walls,i think i'll buy one"!


 What? All I did was tell you which shops were selling paintbrushes, and that ALL Building Suppliers/Hardware stores are allowed to open, what part of that didn't you understand? Homebargains also selling them is neither here nor there FFS!


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> What? All I did was tell you which shops were selling paintbrushes, and that ALL Building Suppliers/Hardware stores are allowed to open, what part of that didn't you understand? Homebargains also selling them is neither here nor there FFS!



I've just clicked on the B&Q site and a message popped up to say I was in a queue and will have to wait 10 minutes to get fully on the site.

Strange times.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> What? All I did was tell you which shops were selling paintbrushes, and that ALL Building Suppliers/Hardware stores are allowed to open, what part of that didn't you understand? Homebargains also selling them is neither here nor there FFS!


Look! I need an excuse to avoid doing extremely boring d.i.y! I'm not gonna buy a paint brush no matter how much you insist i'm allowed to buy one!


----------



## Julia9054 (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> So you go to the store just to buy essential food,then just happen to see a paint brush and think "Hey look, there are some paint brushes over there! That reminds me, i need to paint my walls,i think i'll buy one"!


Erm, yes?
If you are there anyway and the shop is selling them, why would that be a problem.


----------



## Salty seadog (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Our normal one is closed but another is open. You ring your order ahead then head down to wait outside. Verdict is that chips and mushy peas better than our usual but fish not as good. Generous portions. Yep lucky this one has stayed open. Family run so at least they can staff it well enough.



The way to get the best fish is to order haddock. They cook it fresh to order. Also its important that your chip supper is served in a box, none of that paper bollocks that steams it to death.

The measure of a chippy is the quality of its chips.
My favourite is Papas on the quay in Sandwich. Awesome and always busy.

Crispy battery and crispy edged chips.


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I've just clicked on the B&Q site and a message popped up to say I was in a queue and will have to wait 10 minutes to get fully on the site.
> 
> Strange times.


That's not too bad now, they were up to an hour


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Erm, yes?
> If you are there anyway and the shop is selling them, why would that be a problem.


Because you have intentionally gone out to buy a paint brush. You haven't gone out to buy food and just happened to see a paint brush. You can only make essential journeys. That does not include pretending to go out to buy food,when it's really a paint brush you've gone out for.


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> That's not too bad now, they were up to an hour



I have to go out at seven o'clock sharp so have surrendered my place.

It's not clear whether my local store is offering a collect from store service.

Might have another go later.


----------



## screenman (17 Apr 2020)

Salty seadog said:


> The way to get the best fish is to order haddock. They cook it fresh to order. Also its important that your chip supper is served in a box, none of that paper bollocks that steams it to death.
> 
> The measure of a chippy is the quality of its chips.
> My favourite is Papas on the quay in Sandwich. Awesome and always busy.
> ...



The main one served here and sitting on the warmer is Haddock, the reverse of down south, or so we found.


----------



## Salty seadog (17 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I've just clicked on the B&Q site and a message popped up to say I was in a queue and will have to wait 10 minutes to get fully on the site.
> 
> Strange times.



Two minutes per customer acceptance. Social distancing.


----------



## Julia9054 (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Because you have intentionally gone out to buy a paint brush. You haven't gone out to buy food and just happened to see a paint brush. You can only make essential journeys. That does not include pretending to go out to buy food,when it's really a paint brush you've gone out for.


You can think of no situation where a person needs both food and a paintbrush?


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I have to go out at seven o'clock sharp so have surrendered my place.
> 
> It's not clear whether my local store is offering a collect from store service.
> 
> Might have another go later.


Hubby did an order last night and the queue was 17mins, which he said was accurate.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> You can think of no situation where a person needs both food and a paintbrush?


They might need a brush,but technically they shouldn't be buying one.


----------



## Skibird (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Because you have intentionally gone out to buy a paint brush. You haven't gone out to buy food and just happened to see a paint brush. You can only make essential journeys. That does not include pretending to go out to buy food,when it's really a paint brush you've gone out for.


 If you can buy a paintbrush from a hardware store because they are ALLOWED TO OPEN, it makes NO DIFFERENCE where you actually buy it, if it's from a store ALLOWED TO OPEN!!!!


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> If you can buy a paintbrush from a hardware store because they are ALLOWED TO OPEN, it makes NO DIFFERENCE where you actually buy it, if it's from a store ALLOWED TO OPEN!!!!


Then the rules will have to be made clearer.


----------



## stephec (17 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I've just clicked on the B&Q site and a message popped up to say I was in a queue and will have to wait 10 minutes to get fully on the site.
> 
> Strange times.


You did well there, twenty minutes for me last night.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (17 Apr 2020)

Guys, give it a flipping rest about the paint brushes! Go and put a funny film on the DVD player or something. Jeez, don't you lot do anything but find new ways to argue with one another.

In other news, someone close to me has been sent home from work (NHS) with symptoms. Test results pending, so looks like I can add something to the poll in this thread.


----------



## stephec (17 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> FYI -just ordering a take-out....


McNuggets?


----------



## stephec (17 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> I've just found out that a little old lady five doors away from me has died.
> 
> An ambulance was called for her last week but she was told it was normal flu and sent home.
> 
> Another one had to be called yesterday and she was kept in hospital but died this morning, first one so far that's been anywhere near to me.


The funeral was today, at 13:00 everyone from our end of the road came to their gate to pay their respects as the hearse left, quite nice to see in a strange kind of way.


----------



## Rocky (17 Apr 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> In other news, someone close to me has been sent home from work (NHS) with symptoms. Test results pending, so looks like I can add something to the poll in this thread.


I hope they are OK, Phil, and get better soon. I also hope you stay safe and well 

Please thank them for all they are doing - our NHS staff are precious.


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Apr 2020)

stephec said:


> McNuggets?


Chicken Jalfrezi. Uk McNuggets are too low salt for me....


----------



## Fab Foodie (17 Apr 2020)

@Brompton Bruce yer mrs was just on the tellybox....


----------



## Rocky (17 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> @Brompton Bruce yer mrs was just on the tellybox....


Flippin attention seeker


----------



## PK99 (17 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I've just clicked on the B&Q site and a message popped up to say I was in a queue and will have to wait 10 minutes to get fully on the site.
> 
> Strange times.



You were lucky. I tried the other day and was told the virtual queue contained 387,251 and would be over an hour.


----------



## gavroche (17 Apr 2020)

Does anyone wonder when Boris is going to come out of hibernation and faces up to his responsabilities?


----------



## PK99 (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Then the rules will have to be made clearer.



Or you need to better understand the rules.


----------



## vickster (17 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Does anyone wonder when Boris is going to come out of hibernation and faces up to his responsabilities?


When he feels up to it and his doctor clears him to I should think 
He‘s hardly hibernating


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Or you need to better understand the rules.


_The NPCC document outlined some DIY tasks are “likely” to be reasonable.
The document says “buying tools and supplies to repair a fence panel damaged in recent bad weather” is likely to be reasons.
*The NPCC has said “buying paint and brushes, simply to redecorate a kitchen” is “not likely to be reasonable”.*
Essentially in terms of home improvements, the new guidance is that “the regulations specify maintenance and upkeep. This does not extend to renovation and improvements.”_


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (17 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I hope they are OK, Phil, and get better soon. I also hope you stay safe and well
> 
> Please thank them for all they are doing - our NHS staff are precious.


Thanks. She is one of those keeping the essential IT systems up and running which shows you don't have to be at the cutting edge to be at risk.


----------



## vickster (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> _The NPCC document outlined some DIY tasks are “likely” to be reasonable.
> The document says “buying tools and supplies to repair a fence panel damaged in recent bad weather” is likely to be reasons.
> *The NPCC has said “buying paint and brushes, simply to redecorate a kitchen” is “not likely to be reasonable”.*
> Essentially in terms of home improvements, the new guidance is that “the regulations specify maintenance and upkeep. This does not extend to renovation and improvements.”_


The same document that says it is reasonable to be buying food for several days...ie not going every day?


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> _The NPCC document outlined some DIY tasks are “likely” to be reasonable.
> The document says “buying tools and supplies to repair a fence panel damaged in recent bad weather” is likely to be reasons.
> *The NPCC has said “buying paint and brushes, simply to redecorate a kitchen” is “not likely to be reasonable”.*
> Essentially in terms of home improvements, the new guidance is that “the regulations specify maintenance and upkeep. This does not extend to renovation and improvements.”_


FFS Accy, buy the paint brush and eat it.


----------



## slowmotion (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> _The NPCC document outlined some DIY tasks are “likely” to be reasonable.
> The document says “buying tools and supplies to repair a fence panel damaged in recent bad weather” is likely to be reasons.
> *The NPCC has said “buying paint and brushes, simply to redecorate a kitchen” is “not likely to be reasonable”.*
> Essentially in terms of home improvements, the new guidance is that “the regulations specify maintenance and upkeep. This does not extend to renovation and improvements.”_


What if doing something useful and constructive is essential to your mental and spiritual well-being?? I can't believe HMG is so sadistic as to expect us to endure TV during all our waking hours.


----------



## Rusty Nails (17 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> What if doing something useful and constructive is essential to your mental and spiritual well-being?? I can't believe HMG is so sadistic as to expect us to endure TV during all our waking hours.



Exactly. There is a great danger that by being so prescriptive and restrictive they are making the perfect be the enemy of the good.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Salty seadog said:


> The way to get the best fish is to order haddock. They cook it fresh to order. Also its important that your chip supper is served in a box, none of that paper bollocks that steams it to death.
> 
> The measure of a chippy is the quality of its chips.
> My favourite is Papas on the quay in Sandwich. Awesome and always busy.
> ...



We normally have Haddock but in lockdown they are sold out by the time we eat.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> What if doing something useful and constructive is essential to your mental and spiritual well-being?? I can't believe HMG is so sadistic as to expect us to endure TV during all our waking hours.


I agree there. I was only having a little laugh about the paint brush thing(even though i meant it about hating d.i.y and finding an excuse not to do it),but some decided to take the 'you're not allowed to buy a paint brush' to heart. If painting your bathroom and kitchen etc makes one feel better then so be it,but it's not for me!


----------



## slowmotion (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I agree there. I was only having a little laugh about the paint brush thing,but some decided to take the 'you're not allowed to buy a paint brush' to heart.


It's a difficult one. My need to make stuff to stop me going bonkers is really no more worthy or essential than somebody who feels he has to drive 200 miles to do donuts in his 4x4 in a national park.

Edit: I've just discovered that "w#nkpanzer" gets sanitised to "4x4". Well I never!


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

I suppose those old enough could compare this lockdown to WW2,when if i'm right they had a 'blackout' nearly every night. Then us old enough to remember could say it's quite similar to the 1974 miner's strike when most places were shut for hours on end due to the power cuts,affecting peoples social life,movement etc.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> It's a difficult one. My need to make stuff to stop me going bonkers is really no more worthy or essential than somebody who feels he has to drive 200 miles to do donuts in his 4x4 in a national park.
> 
> Edit: I've just discovered that "w#nkpanzer" gets sanitised to "4x4". Well I never!


I just go for a 3 mile drive every night up around the local reservoir and woods. I'm not coming into contact with anyone,it's just a case of running my car to keep it 'healthy' and that's about it. The other night i saw a dead badger by the roadside. It played on my mind quite badly. The following night it was still there. I've just done the same run. I felt better to see it'd been removed.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

Have any of you tried this?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I just go for a 3 mile drive every night up around the local reservoir and woods. I'm not coming into contact with anyone,it's just a case of running my car to keep it 'healthy' and that's about it. The other night i saw a dead badger by the roadside. It played on my mind quite badly. The following night it was still there. I've just done the same run. I felt better to see it'd been removed.



Dead badgers tend not to move around very much.


----------



## slowmotion (17 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Have any of you tried this?
> View attachment 515852


I may be odd, but I'm not totally insane! Mexican lager is utter filth. The cargo bay of my van (currently serving as my cellar), is loaded with an unspecified number of cases of San Miguel. It's a great comfort.


----------



## Accy cyclist (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Dead badgers tend not to move around very much.


No,but those trusted with the job of removing them do.


----------



## Salty seadog (17 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Dead badgers tend not to move around very much.



They move around in the back of a farmers pick up to be dumped by the roadside. 🧐


----------



## steve292 (18 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I may be odd, but I'm not totally insane! Mexican lager is utter filth. The cargo bay of my van (currently serving as my cellar), is loaded with an unspecified number of cases of San Miguel. It's a great comfort.


That's just as bad. tastes like I imagine horsepiss to taste. No wonder they put lime in the neck.


----------



## slowmotion (18 Apr 2020)

steve292 said:


> That's just as bad. tastes like I imagine horsepiss to taste. No wonder they put lime in the neck.


I can assure you that Mexicans have absolutely nothing to do with my particuIar yellow beverage! I reserve limes for Gin &Tonic. Anyway, I can't fit a lime in the ring pull slot of San Miguel.


----------



## Accy cyclist (18 Apr 2020)

Nice to see Ken Dodd's song Happiness re-recorded by fellow er hum! 'comedians', as a tribute to the NHS. Call me cycnical,but i'm wondering how much his tax evasion,not only on his earnings,but also on his 'last laugh on the Inland Revenue',death bed inheritance tax evasion,by getting married to his partner just before he died. Starved such as the NHS of vital income?


----------



## Landsurfer (18 Apr 2020)

It's come to this ......... Just where is the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, ..... remember him ?


----------



## screenman (18 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Have any of you tried this?
> View attachment 515852



About 8 bottles this week, so yes I have.


----------



## screenman (18 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> No,but those trusted with the job of removing them do.



Did you report it?


----------



## Accy cyclist (18 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> About 8 bottles this week, so yes I have.


Was it ok?


----------



## Accy cyclist (18 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Did you report it?


I emailed the council's environmental health dept,the day after i saw it.


----------



## Fab Foodie (18 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Have any of you tried this?
> View attachment 515852


It’s beer Jim, but not as we know it....


----------



## Unkraut (18 Apr 2020)

My beloved had an infection, was admitted (somewhat unexpectedly) by the relevant clinic for intravenous anti-biotics to zap it, now home after two days. She was tested for corona and found negative, which was a relief but not unexpected. The hospital was like Fort Knox and only patients could get beyond reception.

She also needs the anti-malaria drug touted by Trump, and on getting her latest prescription yesterday I was relieved to find that the apothecary (pharmacy!) told me that when obtaining this the manufacturers want evidence that this is for a legitimate patient needing it, they will not allow anyone to stockpile it, presumably to attempt to see if it works on corona patients. I'm glad they've got the savvy to safeguard the supply.


----------



## Levo-Lon (18 Apr 2020)

I had to shout at a persistent rule breaker visitor yesterday.

Lady is an old neighbor of one resident.
She does a bit of shopping for him which is nice.

Trouble is she keeps going to his apartment door, ground floor and not main entrance.
Hands over shopping and money exchange ect..ffs
She was told by the manager to follow the guidelines ,main entrance, call care staff ,do not interact with the residents...


So Friday she's at the main entrance, resident has met her!! Another resident is sat there.
Foot apart all chatting.

So she got the full grumpy English
I was very firm and told her off properly.
She was visibly shocked ,but as I said " you behaviour is threatening the lives of everyone here" it's also the law.

My manager is a Indian gentlemen and a very polite calm man.

His office is by the entrance in full ear shot..
He said to me ,maybe that firmer warning will get through 
I replied with don't hold your breath...


----------



## Mrs M (18 Apr 2020)

Small team left on one floor of our office.
We’ve all really gelled since this happened.
Support each other throughout the day, get the chocolate in, have a wee laugh and a sing song on occasion, maybe a wee dance  There’s some movers here, lol 
Most importantly we’re getting a lot work done and helping people.
We’ve all stepped up and got on with it.
Think the dynamics will change when this is over and the others return.


----------



## screenman (18 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Was it ok?



Fine.


----------



## silva (18 Apr 2020)

Without the government crap I wouldn't even have noticed there was a flu.
In previous years neither, btw.


----------



## Pale Rider (18 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> It's come to this ......... Just where is the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, ..... remember him ?
> 
> View attachment 515910



The guy has been in intensive care which itself can take weeks to get over, let alone recovery from the virus, the timing of which is still being researched.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52301633


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (18 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> The guy has been in intensive care which itself can take weeks to get over, let alone recovery from the virus, the timing of which is still being researched.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52301633


No-oooooo. Cyclechat needs it's pantomime villain back.


----------



## Landsurfer (18 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> I had to shout at a persistent rule breaker visitor yesterday.
> 
> Lady is an old neighbor of one resident.
> She does a bit of shopping for him which is nice.
> ...



I take it you reported her to the Stasi hot line like a good citizen .......


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (18 Apr 2020)

Just received some good news. The test result has come back and it's negative. L is back to work on her next scheduled shift.

Worry over........ for the moment.


----------



## Stephenite (18 Apr 2020)

The flat earthers society fear social distancing could push people over the edge!


----------



## Rocky (18 Apr 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Just received some good news. The test result has come back and it's negative. L is back to work on her next scheduled shift.
> 
> Worry over........ for the moment.


That is good news. I hope she stays safe and healthy. It takes courage to go back. Please thank her for us.


----------



## pawl (18 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I suppose those old enough could compare this lockdown to WW2,when if i'm right they had a 'blackout' nearly every night. Then us old enough to remember could say it's quite similar to the 1974 miner's strike when most places were shut for hours on end due to the power cuts,affecting peoples social life,movement etc.




I think it is not easy to compare the lockdown with WWW2. Yes moaning mine would go off when an air raid was imminent We all had blackout curtrains at the windows.Power cuts were quite frequent due to the service’s under pressure. 

I was four when the war ended and rationing was to remain in force after hostilities ceased.

I can’t say I was as four year old or at five or six being aware of the shortages Things that children take for granted sweets ice cream any thing that required rationed ingredients were none existent I suppose it was what I had I never missed

My dad had an allotment so fresh veg was never in short supply.Any thing that could be pickled preserved or bottled was.Runner beans we’re salted and stored in KilnaJars

Shops generally were open as were cinemas parks and pubs My parents were able to take me to the park or other open spaces 

I’m not suggesting it was an easy time and I am remembering as four year old.

The enemy was a very visible one and it was known who the enemy was it was visible this one is not.

My feeing is that the current restrictions are more restrictive than back then.


----------



## Julia9054 (18 Apr 2020)

View: https://www.facebook.com/100000434702738/posts/3327561443934980/

My eldest on trumpet. These guys were in the middle of a UK tour when lockdown all happened. He’s now working as a carer instead.


----------



## alicat (18 Apr 2020)

^^^ I liked that @Julia9054.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (18 Apr 2020)

Staying sane whilst I can still get out for exercise


----------



## Accy cyclist (19 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I think it is not easy to compare the lockdown with WWW2. Yes moaning mine would go off when an air raid was imminent We all had blackout curtrains at the windows.Power cuts were quite frequent due to the service’s under pressure.
> 
> I was four when the war ended and rationing was to remain in force after hostilities ceased.
> 
> ...


My dad was 13 when the war ended,so i suppose he'd have better recollections than you.He used to talk about 'the war' and his national service (kings Own regiment based at Fullwood Barracks,Preston) in the early 1950's. His memories of WW2 while living in Blackburn Lancs seemed to focus around spivs selling tobacco,his mum chasing him around the street with a strap(I think it was a belt without a buckle) and prostitutes selling their wares. He also mentioned Blackburn's Royal Ordnance Factory being bombed,or nearly bombed. I can't remember which. I'd say they had less restrictions back then as the enemy wasn't actually in our country(In Britain's case,not meaning Europe's). This time the 'enemy' is here,among us.


----------



## Dave7 (19 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> The guy has been in intensive care which itself can take weeks to get over, let alone recovery from the virus, the timing of which is still being researched.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52301633


I had proper flu in the 80s when I was in my prime. It wiped me out totally and took 3 months to get over. Everyone will react differently to this one and, as you suggest, we should not judge individuals as we have no idea what they are going through.


----------



## MarkF (19 Apr 2020)

9:40 Just about to get the bike from the garage, if I time this right then the queue outside Aldi should be the longest I've annoyed so far.


----------



## vickster (19 Apr 2020)

Why will you annoy people? Everyone is bought into the NHS staff getting specific times to shop, it’s not like it’s not been publicised


----------



## Levo-Lon (19 Apr 2020)

Our organisation has 10% of its workforce self isolating. 700 care staff not at work!!
We have covid-19 in several care homes, 90 deaths and rising and one member of staff has also died.

Not sure how we'll cope if we get it in our place.

One thing I do know is my wife will be not wanting me anywhere near work..
I will have to decide if the time comes as to whether I go in...or not..

I have flu Jabs Evey year and I have an auto immune condition...but no letter.
A younger member of staff has had the letter and is off for 12weeks...same condition as me..

Good init


----------



## vickster (19 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> Our organisation has 10% of its workforce self isolating. 700 care staff not at work!!
> We have covid-19 in several care homes, 90 deaths and rising and one member of staff has also died.
> 
> Not sure how we'll cope if we get it in our place.
> ...


Have you discussed with your GP or specialist. Some people will inevitably drop through the cracks.
Are you and your colleague receiving the same medication...eg a biologic which is immunosuppressive?

this gives the groups who have been classified as extremely vulnerable 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...vid-19#who-is-clinically-extremely-vulnerable


----------



## Levo-Lon (19 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Have you discussed with your GP or specialist. Some people will inevitably drop through the cracks.
> Are you and your colleague receiving the same medication...eg a biologic which is immunosuppressive?
> 
> this gives the groups who have been classified as extremely vulnerable
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...vid-19#who-is-clinically-extremely-vulnerable




She has UC as do I.
She is overweight, and seems to have every illness going, so best she stays at home, she's our senior carer..


----------



## vickster (19 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> She has UC as do I.
> She is overweight, and seems to have every illness going, so best she stays at home, she's our senior carer..


So maybe she’s shielded due to another condition? UC in itself doesn’t put you on the list, biologic medication, high dose steroid usage etc may do so.

Why is her being the senior career funny??


----------



## Fab Foodie (19 Apr 2020)

Nursey next- door was moved from Theatre to work in ITU has now gone sick with CV19 symptoms :-(


----------



## Accy cyclist (20 Apr 2020)

Two questions.

Is this vaccine when it arrives, there to prevent or cure the virus? Meaning will they vaccinate the whole population to prevent it spreading,or vaccinate those who have the virus to kill the virus?
I've been soaking up the sun these last few weeks. I've always been a sun worshipper. We're often being told due to the virus,that the sun's vitamin D giving rays help boost our respiratory and immune systems,which obviously helps if we get the virus. My question is,does the vitamin stay in our systems for quite a while after soaking up the sun? I've taken a vitamin D supplement twice a day for 3 years,so i suppose i get enough,but will i be 'super boosted' with the vitamin,after my weeks of sunbathing?


----------



## alicat (20 Apr 2020)

The vaccine is there to prevent people catching Covid-19 not cure those who have it.


----------



## Landsurfer (20 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> The vaccine is there to prevent people catching Covid-19 not cure those who have it.



What if the Oxford Report is correct ... and the majority of us have already had it ...... we all know people who have self isolated and recovered from the symptoms .... all of my family have had the symptoms and recovered since the first of February .. many of our friends have as well ... why is God ... better known as Professor Neil Ferguson ... allowed to change his mind about the severity of the crisis on a daily basis .... with a track record of wildly inaccurate previous models (We should all be dead of CJD according to him) . 
Well just lets sit back and see what happens eh !


----------



## Mugshot (20 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> What if the Oxford Report is correct ... and the majority of us have already had it ...... we all know people who have self isolated and recovered from the symptoms .... all of my family have had the symptoms and recovered since the first of February .. many of our friends have as well ... why is God ... better known as Professor Neil Ferguson ... allowed to change his mind about the severity of the crisis on a daily basis .... with a track record of wildly inaccurate previous models (We should all be dead of CJD according to him) .
> Well just lets sit back and see what happens eh !


Shortness of breath is a symptom, you feeling ok?


----------



## DaveReading (20 Apr 2020)

Courtesy of good old Wikipedia:

"A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired *immunity *to a particular infectious disease"


----------



## Unkraut (20 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> What if the Oxford Report is correct ... and the majority of us have already had it ..


That is unlikely in the extreme. The figure of how many in the general population have had the virus and recovered without significant symptoms is unknown, and can only be established by testing significant representative samples of the population to see if they have developed anti-bodies. I don't think any country has yet managed to do this, although it is in the offing.

The notion the virus has been around in the West for some months and many who thought they had seasonal snuffles have already had it seems to be a favourite with the _Daily Wail_ constituency who are chafing at the bit that their liberty has been restricted by the government, and can't see beyond this to the necessity of protecting the vulnerable. There is a known percentage who require hospitalisation and intensive care, and these numbers are missing prior to February/March this year. Unless you think the "experts" who actually have to deal with this have got it wrong!


----------



## fossyant (20 Apr 2020)

Son is being an arse at the moment. Getting sick of his late night gaming, and just get abuse. Thinks he has a right to stay up to what ever time he wants as he pays a huge £100 a month rent. (I pay for his phone and AA membership). He's 19. Still kicking him out of bed to log into work. He's fine during the day, but evening and morning a right grumpy git (typical teen).

He thinks this is OK as we aren't working this week (leave for me and furlough for MrsF). Kicked off last night as I shut the internet off. Both teens being exceptionally lazy at present.

Off for a ride later after the pharmacy queue for my neighbour's prescription.


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> That is unlikely in the extreme. The figure of how many in the general population have had the virus and recovered without significant symptoms is unknown, and can only be established by testing significant representative samples of the population to see if they have developed anti-bodies. I don't think any country has yet managed to do this, although it is in the offing.
> 
> The notion the virus has been around in the West for some months and many who thought they had seasonal snuffles have already had it seems to be a favourite with the _Daily Wail_ constituency who are chafing at the bit that their liberty has been restricted by the government, and can't see beyond this to the necessity of protecting the vulnerable. There is a known percentage who require hospitalisation and intensive care, and these numbers are missing prior to February/March this year. Unless you think the "experts" who actually have to deal with this have got it wrong!



Unlikely in the extreme is understating it in my opinion. I can't understand how all these people had it in January with mild symptoms but on the other end of the curve we didn't have tens of thousands dead as we do now. I doubt much more than 5% of people will had it when this lockdown is over which is a scary thought.


----------



## Landsurfer (20 Apr 2020)

Try reading the Oxford Report ... there is a high level 6 page pressie available ..... "Experts" vs "Experts" .... was my point .... badly made obviously...


----------



## alicat (20 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> What if the Oxford Report is correct ... and the majority of us have already had it ...... we all know people who have self isolated and recovered from the symptoms .... all of my family have had the symptoms and recovered since the first of February .. many of our friends have as well ... why is God ... better known as Professor Neil Ferguson ... allowed to change his mind about the severity of the crisis on a daily basis .... with a track record of wildly inaccurate previous models (We should all be dead of CJD according to him) .
> Well just lets sit back and see what happens eh !



Please don't use my quote to support your argument. I was merely giving some factual information as to what a vaccination is.


----------



## Milzy (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Unlikely in the extreme is understating it in my opinion. I can't understand how all these people had it in January with mild symptoms but on the other end of the curve we didn't have tens of thousands dead as we do now. I doubt much more than 5% of people will had it when this lockdown is over which is a scary thought.


Thinking the same myself. I'm not going to go all conspiracy theory and all that bollocks but it's weird how this virus effects people in different ways. If it wasn't for the lock down there would certainly be many more deaths. The rednecks in the USA are saying they should just let it spread and kill who it wants to kill. Now that's more scary.


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> Thinking the same myself. I'm not going to go all conspiracy theory and all that bollocks but it's weird how this virus effects people in different ways. If it wasn't for the lock down there would certainly be many more deaths. The rednecks in the USA are saying they should just let it spread and kill who it wants to kill. Now that's more scary.



Yes but they have the inalienable right to get the virus!!


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Try reading the Oxford Report ... there is a high level 6 page pressie available ..... "Experts" vs "Experts" .... was my point .... badly made obviously...



OK fair enough I have not actually read it, only reports of it which made no sense to me. I will read the 6 pages when I have time.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (20 Apr 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> What if the Oxford Report is correct ... and the majority of us have already had it ...



1. No "Oxford Report" ever claimed this. I suggest if you're going to make such a claim you link to the source. 

2. If the report you refer to is this: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042291v1.full.pdf
then 

(1) Note the explicit repudiation of the study as a direct prediction: _a way of determining this fraction by measuring the proportion of the population already exposed to SARS-CoV-2._

(2) please explain how population death rates now already above 0.1% in both Lombardy and NYC are compatible with your claims. 

The rest of your post is an excellent example of Brandolini's Law. As such I won't expend further energy on it. 

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/28/bullshit-asymmetry-principle/


----------



## roubaixtuesday (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> OK fair enough I have not actually read it, only reports of it which made no sense to me. I will read the 6 pages when I have time.



The report is an exercise in epidemiological modeling. 

It explores what rates of infection are *possible* with data available *at that point*.

It does *not* predict that herd immunity had already been achieved, merely that it was *possible* given the data. 

It states that testing is necessary to provide data to refine the model parameters. 

Subsequent to the publication, death rates in NYC and Lombardy are sufficient already to absolutely rule out the upper end of infection rates @Landsurfer is entirely erroneously claiming the paper predicts.


----------



## marinyork (20 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Subsequent to the publication, death rates in NYC and Lombardy are sufficient already to absolutely rule out the upper end of infection rates @Landsurfer is entirely erroneously claiming the paper predicts.



It's data in Veneto when compared with Lombardia that actually suggests that the scenarios with the highest percentages are very likely not ones that are reality.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (20 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> The rednecks in the USA are saying they should just let it spread and kill who it wants to kill. Now that's more scary.



To be fair, that's been American policy since 1775.


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> Son is being an arse at the moment. Getting sick of his late night gaming, and just get abuse. Thinks he has a right to stay up to what ever time he wants as he pays a huge £100 a month rent. (I pay for his phone and AA membership). He's 19. Still kicking him out of bed to log into work. He's fine during the day, but evening and morning a right grumpy git (typical teen).
> 
> He thinks this is OK as we aren't working this week (leave for me and furlough for MrsF). Kicked off last night as I shut the internet off. Both teens being exceptionally lazy at present.
> 
> Off for a ride later after the pharmacy queue for my neighbour's prescription.



It's probably hard on him as well at the moment. Being stuck in the house with your parents can't be much fun at 19. According to the news 16-24 age group are hardest hit by the lock down. Good luck. Hard when you are all stuck in the same house and can't get away from each other.


----------



## Rezillo (20 Apr 2020)

Oxford "study"

expert reaction to unpublished paper modelling what percentage of the UK population may have been exposed to COVID-19

Says it all, really. The paper is a draft non-peer reviewed study and has not been well received.

https://pubpeer.com/publications/868F9FDD735B1EF62FE3B05616148F


----------



## Milzy (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> It's probably hard on him as well at the moment. Being stuck in the house with your parents can't be much fun at 19. According to the news 16-24 age group are hardest hit by the lock down. Good luck. Hard when you are all stuck in the same house and can't get away from each other.


His late night gaming will be good for his mental health. It's a fun outlet to stave off depression. I used to go out drinking until 2am at 19 then be in work before 8 so it's a bit lazy not getting out of bed mind.


----------



## Unkraut (20 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> The rednecks in the USA are saying they should just let it spread and kill who it wants to kill.


Including rednecks!


----------



## Julia9054 (20 Apr 2020)

View: https://youtu.be/TEdkN3ncXYU

RNCM tenor horns filmed on phones and stitched together by my youngest!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> View: https://youtu.be/TEdkN3ncXYU
> 
> RNCM tenor horns filmed on phones and stitched together by my youngest!




That's fantastic. I used to play the Euphonium at school, and was part of a brass band, and occassionally played the tenor horn and trombone as well.


----------



## fossyant (20 Apr 2020)

We've had an order from MIL in the nursing home. She randomly wants quavers, complan and bird seed taking round. Really not so sure its a great idea taking stuff in at present. We would have to drop at reception but its a risk.


----------



## Unkraut (21 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I used to play the Euphonium at school, and was part of a brass band, ...


People who play euphonium in a brass band are, without exception, absolute top notch. 

Anyway, that aside I have just watched the late news and seen footage of Americans going out on the streets demonstrating for the lockdown to end so they can return to their normal life. Trump is encouraging them to do this, notwithstanding it is his administration that wanted the lockdown imposed. 

The report made clear that the majority of Americans were still behind the containment measures, but it leaves your head reeling at the sheer ignorance of those demonstrating. The country has more cases than any other in the world and is still short of vital equipment and is therefore in no position to cope with an upsurge in infections. Unless of course the whole virus thing is just a conspiracy ...


----------



## winjim (21 Apr 2020)

Oh goody, after a full week back at work I'm off home to quarantine again. At least I'll get tested this time, for what it's worth.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2020)

Wife’s boss is self isolating since yesterday. His wife is a NHS nurse and they have a one bed flat. So that’ll be hard. Since people are most infectious before symptoms appear will have to see if wife develops anything then me. My resting HR raised above its typical levels past couple of days but hopefully just normal stresses and it’ll return to normal tomorrow. Feel ok at the moment.

Car alarm not deactivating with key. Need to see if battery in key fob or car battery is severely discharged. If I can get it started may have to give it a run up motorway and back.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (21 Apr 2020)

Making slow progress


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (21 Apr 2020)

Mrs S has been busy too - 






Yes, those lights do come on and the books have individual pages.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (21 Apr 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Including rednecks!




I don't know if this guy's a redneck but in mid-March this idiot, who said his (Ohio) state's lockdown was bullshit, tweeted' "If you are paranoid about getting sick just don't go out. It shouldn't keep those of us from living our lives."






He contracted Covid-19 and died a couple of days ago.


----------



## Rezillo (21 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Making slow progress
> 
> View attachment 516815



Well, it will be slow if your cat is involved in any way. It did well doing the edges.


----------



## Milzy (21 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Mrs S has been busy too -
> View attachment 516834
> 
> 
> ...


Wow I'd love to buy one of those. Could be a great money spinner. My daughter is really into things like that.


----------



## Unkraut (21 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I don't know if this guy's a redneck but in mid-March this idiot, who said his (Ohio) state's lockdown was bullshit, tweeted' "If you are paranoid about getting sick just don't go out. It shouldn't keep those of us from living our lives."
> 
> He contracted Covid-19 and died a couple of days ago.


_There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death._

Always best to trust experts unless you have reasonable grounds to suspect their actual level of expertise isn't what it's cracked up to be.


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Apr 2020)

Our state has announced that face masks will be mandatory in public spaces from -I think- next week. Elder son's employer has got a stock in.


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I don't know if this guy's a redneck but in mid-March this idiot, who said his (Ohio) state's lockdown was bullshit, tweeted' "If you are paranoid about getting sick just don't go out. It shouldn't keep those of us from living our lives."
> 
> View attachment 516838
> 
> ...


Natural selection in action....no sympathy.


----------



## C R (21 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Natural selection in action....no sympathy.


I wouldn't mind if they could guarantee that they would only infect other like minded morons.


----------



## Fab Foodie (21 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> I wouldn't mind if they could guarantee that they would only infect other like minded morons.


In Ohio there’s a pretty high chance....


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Apr 2020)

The government tell us that the virus could peak next week. Does anyone know when it'll be peaking in Peking?


----------



## Levo-Lon (22 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> So maybe she’s shielded due to another condition? UC in itself doesn’t put you on the list, biologic medication, high dose steroid usage etc may do so.
> 
> Why is her being the senior career funny??
> 
> ...


----------



## Levo-Lon (22 Apr 2020)

We may have our first case...


----------



## gavroche (22 Apr 2020)

Macron said on French tv that they might re open primary, secondary schools and colleges on May 11th as well as some businesses. What is he thinking about ? In my opinion, this is far too early and it will trigger a second round of the pandemic. If Boris makes the same decision oh, hang on, I forgot Boris is not running the country at the moment, too hot for him to handle. So , as I was saying, if this government decides to re open schools sometime next month, I, for one, will not be going until next September at the earliest. I value my life more than a few £ in the bank.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (22 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> Macron said on French tv that they might re open primary, secondary schools and colleges on May 11th as well as some businesses. What is he thinking about ? In my opinion, this is far too early and it will trigger a second round of the pandemic. If Boris makes the same decision oh, hang on, I forgot Boris is not running the country at the moment, too hot for him to handle. So , as I was saying, if this government decides to re open schools sometime next month, I, for one, will not be going until next September at the earliest. I value my life more than a few £ in the bank.









Oh well done. A post about France but you still managed to get a dig in about a man convalescing from a life-threatening disease. Good for you.


----------



## gavroche (22 Apr 2020)

My view is my own and I stick by it, yours is yours and I respect that as well.


----------



## C R (22 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Oh well done. A post about France but you still managed to get a dig in about a man convalescing from a life-threatening disease. Good for you.



It has become abundantly clear that the government dropped the ball massively starting in January, when Johnson was very much in control. Why should we not be able to criticise the government and in particular the prime minister?

Under the same logic, Chamberlain would never have been replaced in 1940.


----------



## icowden (22 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I can't understand how all these people had it in January with mild symptoms but on the other end of the curve we didn't have tens of thousands dead as we do now. I doubt much more than 5% of people will had it when this lockdown is over which is a scary thought.



The best way to understand is by comparing to flu. Generally around 17,000 people in the UK die from flu or complications due to flu each year. Loads more get the flu, some very mildly. However, we can and do protect the people most vulnerable to flu through the use of a flu vaccine. It doesn't work 100% but it does provide additional protection for many people

Covid-19 is a very similar type of viral infection. However we have no vaccination (yet) to protect the most vulnerable, and no specific treatment to try and help those infected. Worse, those who are infected tend to develop a lung infection requiring additional oxygen or full ventillation. This doesn't happen with Flu. SO we need much more specialist equipment, many more ICU beds and a higher level of staffing to treat Covid. There isn't a vaccination to help those most vulnerable avoid the disease, and there is still quite a lot unknown around what it does and how best to treat people, hence we see some people who seem to be fit and healthy being killed by it.

Social distancing etc isn't an attempt to stop anyone getting Covid-19. It is an attempt to slow the spread of infection so that those who are infected and require intensive treatment can receive it.


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## lane (22 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> The best way to understand is by comparing to flu. Generally around 17,000 people in the UK die from flu or complications due to flu each year. Loads more get the flu, some very mildly. However, we can and do protect the people most vulnerable to flu through the use of a flu vaccine. It doesn't work 100% but it does provide additional protection for many people
> 
> Covid-19 is a very similar type of viral infection. However we have no vaccination (yet) to protect the most vulnerable, and no specific treatment to try and help those infected. Worse, those who are infected tend to develop a lung infection requiring additional oxygen or full ventillation. This doesn't happen with Flu. SO we need much more specialist equipment, many more ICU beds and a higher level of staffing to treat Covid. There isn't a vaccination to help those most vulnerable avoid the disease, and there is still quite a lot unknown around what it does and how best to treat people, hence we see some people who seem to be fit and healthy being killed by it.
> 
> Social distancing etc isn't an attempt to stop anyone getting Covid-19. It is an attempt to slow the spread of infection so that those who are infected and require intensive treatment can receive it.



Thanks for that which all makes sense but had no relationship whatsoever to what you quoted


----------



## icowden (22 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Thanks for that which all makes sense but had no relationship whatsoever to what you quoted



Maybe I should have been more explicit.
Covid is most likely to kill those who have underlying conditions.
It is possible for many people to have had Covid already without this neccessarily affecting the death rate.
We also don't know whether there are multiple strains of the same virus.
The people who are being hospitalised and who make up the stats are those whom it has made most ill.
There is no data or testing to give any indication of how prevalent it is in the general population.


----------



## C R (22 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> Maybe I should have been more explicit.
> Covid is most likely to kill those who have underlying conditions.
> It is possible for many people to have had Covid already without this neccessarily affecting the death rate.
> We also don't know whether there are multiple strains of the same virus.
> ...


The point being made is that if a large part of the population had already had covid-19 then we would have already seen the deaths at that point. It is not possible for a large part of the population to have been exposed without the vulnerable fraction also being exposed.

Antibody testing in the US and the Netherlands indicates that only between 1 and 3% of the population are likely to have been exposed.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (22 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> It has become abundantly clear that the government dropped the ball massively starting in January, when Johnson was very much in control. Why should we not be able to criticise the government and in particular the prime minister?
> 
> Under the same logic, Chamberlain would never have been replaced in 1940.



But that's not what the post is saying.

Basically it's:
"France is planning this and I think it's a bad thing"
"Gratuitous dig at Johnson"
"If UK does what France does I will be upset"


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## roubaixtuesday (22 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> We also don't know whether there are multiple strains of the same virus.



You may be interested in how much we do know about the genetic makeup of the virus and how it is changing. For example:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/sequencingcovid


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## lane (22 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> The point being made is that if a large part of the population had already had covid-19 then we would have already seen the deaths at that point. It is not possible for a large part of the population to have been exposed without the vulnerable fraction also being exposed.
> 
> Antibody testing in the US and the Netherlands indicates that only between 1 and 3% of the population are likely to have been exposed.



Yes all I have seen is ranges between 2 and 14% with questions being raised about methodology at the higher end or it being testing in significant hot-spots. Even if it is higher with more asymptomatic cases than we now seem to expect, it has all happened in the past few week not in December or January. I can't see more than 5% of people in the UK have been exposed which seems to tie in with what experts are suggesting.


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## gavroche (22 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> "If UK does what France does I will be upset"


I never said I will be upset, but just that I will not agree with it either and not follow their recommendation . As for Boris, well, his past speaks for itself.


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## roubaixtuesday (22 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> you still managed to get a dig in about a man convalescing from a life-threatening disease. Good for you.



Oh well done. You just managed to use an irrelevant reference to Johnson's illness as an excuse to avoid criticism of him. Good for you.


View attachment 516989


[Edit: dagnabbit I can't be arsed to work out how to copy paste @Joey Shabadoo 's gif properly, and now my poor attempt at parody is absolutely transparently idiotic. Serves me right.]


----------



## Levo-Lon (22 Apr 2020)

I spent some time this morning creating a painted line for visitors .

Took a while to cut out and used yellow aerosol.. to paint the words and line.

I was pleased with it.

Receptionist said oh that's good you could be "Banksy"
No more like Wanksy


----------



## SpokeyDokey (22 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Oh well done. You just managed to use an irrelevant reference to Johnson's illness as an excuse to avoid criticism of him. Good for you.
> 
> 
> View attachment 516989
> ...



Don't worry, your kudos is maintained through the use of the excellent word 'dagnabbit' - possibly a forum first although @classic33 will probably prove me wrong.


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## Bazzer (22 Apr 2020)

We had been in self isolation (because of child 2), for 2 weeks from around 4 weeks ago, although she was never tested. We had a rough couple of days, when it was touch and go whether we took her to hospital, (and after a heated argument cancelled an ambulance).
We thought child 2 was over it, but it seems the after effects persist for weeks.
GP now believes she had the virus and she needs antibiotics for breathing difficulties and recommended to wear a face mask for her own lung protection when taking her exercise. She has had blue lips a couple of times, but fortunately I have a supply of pure oxygen. (Albeit limited).
Apparently through hygiene, health or just plain good luck, Mrs B and I didn't suffer any ill effects.


----------



## classic33 (22 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Don't worry, your kudos is maintained through the use of the excellent word 'dagnabbit' - possibly a forum first although @classic33 will probably prove me wrong.


He just likes the word, that's all.

And there's nothing to see here.


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## lane (22 Apr 2020)

Bazzer said:


> We had been in self isolation (because of child 2), for 2 weeks from around 4 weeks ago, although she was never tested. We had a rough couple of days, when it was touch and go whether we took her to hospital, (and after a heated argument cancelled an ambulance).
> We thought child 2 was over it, but it seems the after effects persist for weeks.
> GP now believes she had the virus and she needs antibiotics for breathing difficulties and recommended to wear a face mask for her own lung protection when taking her exercise. She has had blue lips a couple of times, but fortunately I have a supply of pure oxygen. (Albeit limited).
> Apparently through hygiene, health or just plain good luck, Mrs B and I didn't suffer any ill effects.



Glad things are looking up. Sounds horendous. Hope he / she continues to recover.


----------



## PaulB (22 Apr 2020)

I was very disappointed on my bike ride today. My intended route was to go through a village near me (which shall remain nameless) but it has gone right over the top in terms of keeping 'undesirables' out. Farms on the roads leading to the place had hand-written warnings frightening off any person headed in that direction. The main car park servicing the village and big hill is closed off and barricaded but the adjacent turn to the village itself is firmly blocked with signs telling you there is no go under any circumstances - unless your house is along that road. The worrying thing is, this is the same sort of mentality that brought this village the thing it's known for - witchcraft and the madness that had them denouncing any helpless old woman in the vicinity. The locals were also going unnecessarily over the top in applying daft rules during the foot-and-mouth crisis and maintaining restrictions long after they were lifted. What harm could a solo bike rider cause going through the village on the road out the other side? What I saw in the 2001 F&M thing was that once this village had gone full lockdown, the adjacent villages brought the same restrictions in there not long after. There's no benefit from having 'strangers' in the vicinity because all the pubs and other businesses are closed so the mentality runs, let's keep the buggers out.


----------



## fossyant (22 Apr 2020)

PaulB said:


> I was very disappointed on my bike ride today. My intended route was to go through a village near me (which shall remain nameless) but it has gone right over the top in terms of keeping 'undesirables' out. Farms on the roads leading to the place had hand-written warnings frightening off any person headed in that direction. The main car park servicing the village and big hill is closed off and barricaded but the adjacent turn to the village itself is firmly blocked with signs telling you there is no go under any circumstances - unless your house is along that road. The worrying thing is, this is the same sort of mentality that brought this village the thing it's known for - witchcraft and the madness that had them denouncing any helpless old woman in the vicinity. The locals were also going unnecessarily over the top in applying daft rules during the foot-and-mouth crisis and maintaining restrictions long after they were lifted. What harm could a solo bike rider cause going through the village on the road out the other side? What I saw in the 2001 F&M thing was that once this village had gone full lockdown, the adjacent villages brought the same restrictions in there not long after. There's no benefit from having 'strangers' in the vicinity because all the pubs and other businesses are closed so the mentality runs, let's keep the buggers out.



Pendle then......


----------



## fossyant (22 Apr 2020)

If we are riding a bike, we haven't a virus. FFS I couldn't ride mine if ill - I'm not out for a pootle, I'm out training - if I was ill, I wouldn't ride.


----------



## vickster (23 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> If we are riding a bike, we haven't a virus. FFS I couldn't ride mine if ill - I'm not out for a pootle, I'm out training - if I was ill, I wouldn't ride.


I think one of the main reasons for social distancing is to stop those who are carriers but asymptomatic from spreading it. Could be any of us


----------



## buzzy-beans (23 Apr 2020)

It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.


----------



## Illaveago (23 Apr 2020)

That Brandon Lewis was talking b ******s! When asked why we are not choosing PPE from British manufacturers said that it's not the right type ! 
When heath workers told to re use or make PPE last longer surely not quite the right stuff is better than nothing !


----------



## Julia9054 (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Exercise is allowed. One person calls it training, another person calls it exercise. Same thing.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.



Does it also make your blood boil seeing runners out risking broken ankles?

Do people undertaking the much higher risk activities of DIY also raise your sanguinary temperature?

Or is there something peculiarly heat inducing about two wheeled exercise? If so, why?


----------



## vickster (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.


Dearie me.
The only person I know who has injured themselves during lockdown was a colleague who fell down the stairs at home and broke her leg badly in 2 places.
I do hope you live in a bungalow


----------



## vickster (23 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Does it also make your blood boil seeing runners out risking broken ankles?
> 
> Do people undertaking the much higher risk activities of DIY also raise your sanguinary temperature?
> 
> Or is there something peculiarly heat inducing about two wheeled exercise? If so, why?


It’s a bit odd on a cycling forum.
I think the rant may be better received over on Pistonheads by the anti-cyclist speed merchants 

Also does he realise that not everyone has a turbo trainer, a garden or space indoors?

Oh and what about the key workers who cycle to work?


----------



## winjim (23 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> In Ohio there’s a pretty high chance....


Ohio silver lining.


----------



## winjim (23 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> We may have our first case...


Yikes. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Andy in Germany (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.



I'm at slightly higher risk than average because I have (mild) Asthma, but I'll be a key worker from next month so I'll be working with people all day. The medical advice is to exercise as much as I can.

Fortunately we have no limits on time or distance travelled. This is because Germany's healthcare system hasn't been run down for a decade. Perhaps instead of getting angry at cyclists for maybe, potentially overloading the emergency services in a very rare, unlikely and extreme situation, ask why the emergency services have been reduced to a point they can't handle this situation.

Also, I have no back garden, and my bike is my main transport for work, shopping, and exercise. If we're going to get upset about cyclists in the current situation, we should get equally angry with people making unnecessary trips by car (or plane) in the current climate emergency.


----------



## buzzy-beans (23 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Exercise is allowed. One person calls it training, another person calls it exercise. Same thing.



I totally agree that exercise is allowed, but we have read on here in numerous posts about people who are doing rides of 20, 30, 40, 50 or more miles a day, now they are taking the proverbial.
I have also read on here about numerous people who are taking this issue as seriously as we are, but hey ho, in all walks of life there are always going to be those idiots that don't think the restrictions apply to them!!


----------



## Julia9054 (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I totally agree that exercise is allowed, but we have read on here in numerous posts about people who are doing rides of 20, 30, 40, 50 or more miles a day, now they are taking the proverbial.
> I have also read on here about numerous people who are taking this issue as seriously as we are, but hey ho, in all walks of life there are always going to be those idiots that don't think the restrictions apply to them!!


Who decides what distance is allowed? You?


----------



## Poacher (23 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I don't know if this guy's a redneck but in mid-March this idiot, who said his (Ohio) state's lockdown was bullshit, tweeted' "If you are paranoid about getting sick just don't go out. It shouldn't keep those of us from living our lives."
> 
> View attachment 516838
> 
> ...


"Give me liberty or give me death!"

There you go, sunshine, no need to choose between them, why not have both?


----------



## newfhouse (23 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> This is because the UK's healthcare system hasn't been run down for a decade.


You may wish to edit this...


----------



## Andy in Germany (23 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> You may wish to edit this...



Thanks, duly done.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I totally agree that exercise is allowed, but we have read on here in numerous posts about people who are doing rides of 20, 30, 40, 50 or more miles a day, now they are taking the proverbial.
> I have also read on here about numerous people who are taking this issue as seriously as we are, but hey ho, in all walks of life there are always going to be those idiots that don't think the restrictions apply to them!!



Here's the official guidance. 

It is judged reasonable not only to drive to a place of exercise, but also a "long walk" including a stop for lunch is allowed.

How you feel a 20 mile cycle from home is "taking the proverbial" is therefore mysterious to me.

Indeed, a 50 mile non-stop cycle from home is very obviously more reasonable than a short drive, plus a long walk, plus a lunch stop, all of which is reasonable.


----------



## Andy in Germany (23 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Here's the official guidance.
> 
> It is judged reasonable not only to drive to a place of exercise, but also a "long walk" including a stop for lunch is allowed.
> 
> ...



I thought Germany was big on rules and regulations...


----------



## alicat (23 Apr 2020)

Where did you get that guidance from, @roubaixtuesday? Shame the woman arrested for meditating by a lake in Richmond-on-Thames didn't read it.


----------



## derrick (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.


Better not drive the car to the shops in case i have an accident, better not do the gardening in case i have an accident, maybe not use the kettle in case i burn myself, Cant use the turbo in case i trap my bits some where, Maybe we should all stay in bed and do nothing.


----------



## fossyant (23 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Exercise is allowed. One person calls it training, another person calls it exercise. Same thing.



I don't go out for a pootle and spend hours pottering about. I go out for around an hour, and make that hour pay, and usually early or late and absolutely no risks being taken. No car, no gnar, not far.

Unlike the 6 young lads pottering along the canal on MTB's earlier this week.


----------



## Julia9054 (23 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> I don't go out for a pootle and spend hours pottering about. I go out for around an hour, and make that hour pay, and usually early or late and absolutely no risks being taken. No car, no gnar, not far.
> 
> Unlike the 6 young lads pottering along the canal on MTB's earlier this week.


My distinction between the two would be that exercise is maintaining or improving someone’s fitness level (cardio, strength or flexibility or a combination of the three) Depending on starting level of fitness, for some this could include going out on the bike for a pootle. 
Training includes the above but also involves working on improving some aspect of technique.
How long someone does either for is not defined under any government rules. I am certainly not going to fall into the “what I do is reasonable, everyone else is taking the p!ss“ trap.


----------



## MrGrumpy (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I totally agree that exercise is allowed, but we have read on here in numerous posts about people who are doing rides of 20, 30, 40, 50 or more miles a day, now they are taking the proverbial.
> I have also read on here about numerous people who are taking this issue as seriously as we are, but hey ho, in all walks of life there are always going to be those idiots that don't think the restrictions apply to them!!



16 mile each way by bicycle on my commute, granted I`m not doing that every day like I used to ?? My bug bear is that my normal commute route is now busier than ever  with people doing their 1hr of exercise. Anyway that is another issue we just have to get used to !


----------



## roubaixtuesday (23 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> Where did you get that guidance from, @roubaixtuesday? Shame the woman arrested for meditating by a lake in Richmond-on-Thames didn't read it.



It's the College of Policing. Was widely publicised a few days ago.


----------



## Mr Celine (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.


Cycling isn't dangerous.
HTH.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (23 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> Where did you get that guidance from, @roubaixtuesday? Shame the woman arrested for meditating by a lake in Richmond-on-Thames didn't read it.



link

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf


----------



## cyberknight (23 Apr 2020)

Neice left her job last year to go on a trip around asia for 3-4 months, ohh to be young and single  
She went back to my sisters to look for a local job and has been offererd a job back in her old lab with better pay and accomodation in student digs testing covid 19 samples


----------



## winjim (23 Apr 2020)

winjim said:


> Oh goody, after a full week back at work I'm off home to quarantine again. At least I'll get tested this time, for what it's worth.


Righto, I'm off to get a swab stuck up my nose. Wish me luck.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (23 Apr 2020)

Grrrr!

More SBRR £10k grant relief rollocks:

Daughter of multi-millionaire (he bankrolls it) runs a very small 'vanity project' art gallery that apparently makes not a dime - gets £10k Gov' grant.

Tennent of a small business that is closing down (retiring) along with terminating the small property lease in 2 weeks time - gets £10k Gov' grant.

That's five I know of who are an embarrassment to themselves and then there's this lot too:

https://www.ft.com/content/53a1d365-0eb5-4622-bff3-1e893672260b

NB: I'm ok with the grant for the real businesses in need but this is a disgracefully badly thought out scheme imo.


----------



## gaijintendo (23 Apr 2020)

My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.

Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.

In three days he was suffering pretty much the onset of a fairly bad bout of the flu. He had managed to cough less, but had sore throats, bad tummy trouble. His sense of taste was fading fast away.

By the 7th day he was pretty much floored. All google searching and emails stopped then. At night he was sweating blankets sodden. He had lost his appetite and couldn't swallow or drink enough calories. That lasted three nights.

We got excited because he hadn't had a super sweaty night. He even claimed he thought he could taste the coffee a bit better. At this point my mother improved, but dad worsened.

He had taken to controlling his breathing to suppress what he thought would be exhausting coughs. I suspect this was him having trouble breathing, but he believed he was managing his recovery. But all evidence suggests he was struggling more than he was letting on, reading his flamboyant writing, now a scrawl.

However he started to have cognitive difficulties due to a dropping spO2 level. He went to the Out of Hours on the 12th day.

We thought he was saved. He perked up immediately. But the virus was doing its thing, destroying his lungs initially.

Oxygen mask -> CPAP Machine -> Ventilator.

Following that was two weeks of decline, some improvement, some more decline.

Kidneys failed first, and dialysis was unreliable due to clotting and fluid issues. Then heart had problems due to fluids and electrolyte problems.

They got over most of that, but the damage didn't really come under control and he was lost to us on the 30th day, despite the best possible care.

He was flying about the place two weeks prior to getting sick, and he probably caught it trying to get the loo rolls everyone thought they were missing out on. A man who was utterly full of mischief, and fun - chasing his grandchildren on long walks over Christmas.

And what an education on grief.

I couldn't comfort my mum in person during her recovery. By the time I was able to visit, he was two days from death. If she had held his hand during his final moments which is a privilege she was offered having contracted it at the same time , she'd have had to see out two more weeks of quarantine without hugs and support she so much required. They sent the sad evidence on the NHS system, after 4 days of pictures of him looking great on a ventilator, but sadly he wasn't making the recovery we so desperately needed.

And as for the funeral - understated for such a loved and flamboyant man. His eldest son unable to attend from overseas. Me managing the affairs as best I can.

I think this is the longest I have been without crying.

I never understood grief before. I have felt loss, I have understood other's pain when I have seen it in a very superficial way, I now see. I didn't know pain like this in my blessed life so far.

Please stay safe. This virus doesn't really care. I think it shaved at least ten good years and however many bad off that man's life.

Thank you to the NHS team in Lanarkshire for doing an incredible job, at this unreal time. God bless them all.


----------



## Bazzer (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...


So sorry for your loss. The loss is bad enough, without having also to cope with the restrictions imposed by the virus.


----------



## winjim (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear that.


----------



## Rocky (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...


I’m really sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts are with you and your family.


----------



## Andy in Germany (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...



Not much to say except that I'm sorry for your loss and thinking of you.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry to hear this. My condolences to you and your family for your loss.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (23 Apr 2020)

derrick said:


> Better not drive the car to the shops in case i have an accident, better not do the gardening in case i have an accident, maybe not use the kettle in case i burn myself, Cant use the turbo in case i trap my bits some where, Maybe we should all stay in bed and do nothing.



Makes my blood boil, people falling out of bed...


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (23 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...



That's terrible but thank you for sharing. I wish more people could read this and learn the reality.


----------



## gaijintendo (23 Apr 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> That's terrible but thank you for sharing. I wish more people could read this and learn the reality.


That was my motivation for posting it, I really don't want people taking risks - especially if you've been given a bracelet or condition card. I know you feel great but this virus is allowing your immune system to attack you, and you are only as good as your weakest organ.

I really appreciate the kind messages, but ultimately, if anyone is taking this lightly, and should maybe have another think - I'd be happy to talk to them. DM me if I can call someone you care about.


----------



## Rusty Nails (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I totally agree that exercise is allowed, but we have read on here in numerous posts about people who are doing rides of 20, 30, 40, 50 or more miles a day, now they are taking the proverbial.
> I have also read on here about numerous people who are taking this issue as seriously as we are, but hey ho, in all walks of life there are always going to be those idiots that don't think the restrictions apply to them!!



I go for a 20 mile ride every other day (taking no risks). I am a 73 year old asthmatic trying to build up my fitness after a layoff. I am classed as one of the vulnerable category but I want to make sure that my overall health, strength and lungs are as good as they can be so that if I am unlucky enough to catch this virus I will stand just a little bit more chance of getting through it.

I am aware of the restrictions and I adhere to the rules on exercise, social distancing and shopping for essentials, set by the government on the advice of medical experts (who know a little bit more about it than you do).

More accidents requiring hospital treatment occur in and around the home, especially in kitchens, descending stairs or doing diy, than cycling so perhaps the only way to avoid the risk of accidents is to stay in bed and do nothing all day.

I hope you are wearing sunscreen in your garden on the trainer as I hear sunburn can be nasty and cause hospitalisation.


----------



## woodbutcher (23 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> It makes my blood boil when I here cyclists saying they are out training................. now come on for heavens sake, be responsible and observe the full meaning of the laws of our land!
> You might think you are safe, you might think you aren't endangering anyone, but what happens if you have an accident, what happens if you unfortunately ride into a pothole and go base over apex into the road smashing yourself up good and proper in the process. Then because of your selfish exercising at least 1 or more police cars would have to come out to you along with at least one paramedic and then an ambulance and all because you, you selfish 'B' were only doing a bit of exercise on your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Boring as it is, we are doing all of our exercise on our turbo trainers in our own back garden, endangering absolutely no one.


I couldn't agree more , well said sir !


----------



## gbb (24 Apr 2020)

Taking a longer term view now we have been in lockdown around a month, i notice a few things....

I'm ok, i'm working, i have contact with people, chit chat, stimulation, whatever you like to call day to day interaction with people.

My wife, classed as vulnerable is off on full pay and has been for a month. She is trying to do everything right and has only been out the house maybe 3 times...and i can see its effecting her.
She is bored, unstimulated, struggling for motivation.

I went to mums last night, similar circumstances to my wife, but mums age is the key factor....and while shes physically ok, i sense more and more she is struggling in conversation, losing her thread a bit. She is 90 and that may well be a huge factor....but 1 month sat indoors with just a daily phone call or two and the absolute minimum visits may be taking its toll as well.


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I go for a 20 mile ride every other day (taking no risks). I am a 73 year old asthmatic trying to build up my fitness after a layoff. I am classed as one of the vulnerable category but I want to make sure that my overall health, strength and lungs are as good as they can be so that if I am unlucky enough to catch this virus I will stand just a little bit more chance of getting through it.
> 
> I am aware of the restrictions and I adhere to the rules on exercise, social distancing and shopping for essentials, set by the government on the advice of medical experts (who know a little bit more about it than you do).
> 
> ...


Rusty.
Everyone can find reasons why their exercise is acceptable.
You say you adhere to to the rules but then say you do 20 mile rides..... way over the one hour rule (unless you are very good).
Lots of nice people on here doing 50+ miles. I honestly have no problem with that as I cannot judge.......we did a 2 hour walk yesterday. I am honestly not having a dig, its just my thoughts


----------



## Julia9054 (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> way over the one hour rule


What one hour rule. There isn't one


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Rusty.
> Everyone can find reasons why their exercise is acceptable.
> You say you adhere to to the rules but then say you do 20 mile rides..... *way over the one hour rule* (unless you are very good).
> Lots of nice people on here doing 50+ miles. I honestly have no problem with that as I cannot judge.......we did a 2 hour walk yesterday. I am honestly not having a dig, its just my thoughts


And yet you walked for 2?


----------



## Rusty Nails (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Rusty.
> Everyone can find reasons why their exercise is acceptable.
> You say you adhere to to the rules but then say you do 20 mile rides..... way over the *one hour rule* (unless you are very good).
> Lots of nice people on here doing 50+ miles. I honestly have no problem with that as I cannot judge.......we did a 2 hour walk yesterday. I am honestly not having a dig, its just my thoughts



There is no one hour rule. This has been shown many, many times but still people refer to it.  I will adhere to it when it becomes a rule, or even shorter times if they become a rule.

Why is a two hour walk more acceptable than a 90 minute bike ride?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (24 Apr 2020)

OK, so once again I'll pay the police guidance on what is reasonable. 







"Long" walks are fine, including a lunch stop. Driving to your long walk is also reasonable.

A 20 mile ride from could not possibly be seen as outside this guidance.

There is no guidance on the length of exercise, only that exercise should be the primary purpose of leaving your lockdown.


----------



## pawl (24 Apr 2020)

gaijintendo said:


> My father died a week ago from the virus. I thought I would give a rough description of his last week weeks.
> 
> Around the 1st day he was feeling a little run-down, with a percussive double-cough which he couldn't suppress.
> 
> ...





So sorry to hear of your loss. Please accept my condolences.


----------



## Rusty Nails (24 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> OK, so once again I'll pay the police guidance on what is reasonable.
> 
> View attachment 517489
> 
> ...



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you for repeating the advice and the *F* *A* *C* *T* *S.*

I suspect that these will still conveniently be forgotten by many, because they prefer their own uninformed views on what is reasonable.


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> What one hour rule. There isn't one


Really ??
I honestly thought there was.
When was that lifted?


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Really ??
> I honestly thought there was.
> When was that lifted?


Never existed, apparently rumour from a comment made by Michael Gove


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> There is no one hour rule. This has been shown many, many times but still people refer to it.  I will adhere to it when it becomes a rule, or even shorter times if they become a rule.
> 
> Why is a two hour walk more acceptable than a 90 minute bike ride?


If that is correct, and I do not doubt you, I will keep my gob shut.
Have I imagined that ?


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Never existed, apparently rumour from a comment made by Michael Gove


Seriously ?
So, are you saying there is no limit ?
We thought we were being naughty with a 2 hour walk.


----------



## derrick (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Rusty.
> Everyone can find reasons why their exercise is acceptable.
> You say you adhere to to the rules but then say you do 20 mile rides..... way over the one hour rule (unless you are very good).
> Lots of nice people on here doing 50+ miles. I honestly have no problem with that as I cannot judge.......we did a 2 hour walk yesterday. I am honestly not having a dig, its just my thoughts


Can you show me this 1 hour rule please.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Seriously ?
> So, are you saying there is no limit ?
> We thought we were being naughty with a 2 hour walk.


The rules say to minimise time outside, ultimately if you are seeing few people it’s really what you think is acceptable to minimise. Just don’t trip up and break your leg or hip


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

derrick said:


> Can you show me this 1 hour rule please.


No 
Others have already put me straight on that.
I really thought there was.
So, where did I get that from..... I must check that out.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others


----------



## Dave7 (24 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> The rules say to minimise time outside, ultimately if you are seeing few people it’s really what you think is acceptable to minimise. Just don’t trip up and break your leg or hip


You should have told me that weeks ago before I came off the bike


----------



## winjim (24 Apr 2020)

I'm autistic, I can go wherever I want, as often as I like, if it stops me flipping out.


----------



## tom73 (24 Apr 2020)

The one hour idea came from the press running away with a comment Gove made when Marr asked him what he considered to be reasonable time for exercise.

Now is not a time to pick holes the law is not black and white it's been done that way to allow some room for common sense.
We have a choice say sod it the law says it's ok or to think what's fair for me and everyone else. What's taking the pee and what's being sensible and going what's right.
Only we can can make the call but up to a point. If we all push it a bit more then it won't take much to see things getting a whole lot worse than now. We are no way near fixing the situation all we've done is slow things down.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Seriously ?
> So, are you saying there is no limit ?
> We thought we were being naughty with a 2 hour walk.



As far as I understood, that was a guideline, not a rule. In France I think they were enforcing 2h as a rule but not the UK.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (24 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> The one hour idea came from the press running away with a comment Gove made when Marr asked him what he considered to be reasonable time for exercise.
> 
> Now is not a time to pick holes the law is not black and white it's been done that way to away to some room for common sense.
> We have a choice say sod it the law says it's ok or to think what's fair for me and everyone else. What's taking the pee and what's being sensible and going what's right.
> Only we can can make the call but up to a point. If we all push it a bit more then it won't take much to see things getting a whole lot worse than now. We are no way near fixing the situation all weave done is slow things down.



And, at risk of being boring, the govt (via the CPS) has provided guidance on how to judge what is reasonable.

A short drive, followed by a long walk including a lunch break is reasonable, as long as social distancing is observed. 

I suggest this is therefore a good benchmark to judge cycling activities. 2-3 hours solo ride non stop from your home, for instance, is very obviously within this. 

The guidance, once again:


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (24 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> As far as I understood, that was a guideline, not a rule. In France I think they were enforcing 2h as a rule but not the UK.


I'm not sure you could even call it a guideline. Just an opinion of his in an interview that has never been mentioned in the official guidelines. Previously to that he said that you should just do your normal exercise - I bet it came as a shock to him that there are people who consider two hundred kilometre audax rides as normal.


----------



## Rusty Nails (24 Apr 2020)

Dave7 said:


> No
> Others have already put me straight on that.
> I really thought there was.
> So, where did I get that from..... I must check that out.



Michael Gove gave an interview in which he was asked about limits for different forms of exercise. He made some off-the-cuff remarks about what he thought was reasonable. They were vague, depending on your level of fitness, and were never taken any further.


----------



## tom73 (24 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> And, at risk of being boring, the govt (via the CPS) has provided guidance on how to judge what is reasonable.
> 
> A short drive, followed by a long walk including a lunch break is reasonable, as long as social distancing is observed.
> 
> ...


I know what the CPS guidelines are equally I know what being fair and responsible is. You have a choice the law say's I can so I will or I can play my part in protecting everyone and not push it. I've posted on another thread why i've taken the choice I have re being out on the bike. Guess when your wife is on the frontline dealing with this mess it makes you see things differently.


----------



## buzzy-beans (24 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I suggest this is therefore a good benchmark to judge cycling activities. 2-3 hours solo ride non stop from your home, for instance, is very obviously within this.



I know a very large number of responsible people who hold the view that this attitude is TOTALLY unreasonable, and I am one of them!!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (24 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> I know what the CPS guidelines are equally I know what being fair and responsible is. You have a choice the law say's I can so I will or I can play my part in protecting everyone and not push it. I've posted on another thread why i've taken the choice I have re being out on the bike. Guess when your wife is on the frontline dealing with this mess it makes you see things differently.



How on earth is following the guidance not being fair and responsible?

I genuinely don't understand your point.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (24 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> this attitude is TOTALLY unreasonable,



Why? How can following the advice on what is reasonable possibly be unreasonable?

Honestly, you've completely lost me here. Help please!


----------



## marinyork (24 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I know a very large number of responsible people who hold the view that this attitude is TOTALLY unreasonable, and I am one of them!!



It's human nature to have a wide range of reactions to something like this.

The models rely on a percentage of people sticking to the guidelines and of those that don't still reducing contact.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I know a very large number of responsible people who hold the view that this attitude is TOTALLY unreasonable, and I am one of them!!



I sort of see the point, but it raises the question of why Germany has a lower rate of infection than the UK, and a much lower rate of death from the virus, even though we don't have this limit.

If you feel it is unreasonable for you, that's fine. but if you are trying to persuade others to agree I think it needs a bit more science or reasoning.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Apr 2020)

Good today, resting heart rate and blood pressure in the normal ranges.


----------



## tom73 (24 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> How on earth is following the guidance not being fair and responsible?
> 
> I genuinely don't understand your point.


I can go out on the bike for say 2/3 hours , then take the dog out , then go to the shop , then to the next one as the 1st one did not sell the right brand , then the next and so on then come home , later take a drive out to pet shop , then call in at the allotment (if i had one), then take my wife to her night shift then drive home.
All within the law and guidelines. But I don't because it's not being responsible and grown up about it.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (24 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> I can go out on the bike for say 2/3 hours , then take the dog out , then go to the shop , then to the next one as the 1st one did not sell the right brand , then the next and so on then come home , later take a drive out to pet shop , then call in at the allotment (if i had one), then take my wife to her night shift then drive home.
> All within the law and guidelines. But I don't because it's not being responsible and grown up about it.



But that wasn't what you responded to.

How is cycling alone for 2-3 hours not responsible?

It's clearly within the guidance. 

I don't understand your response at all.


----------



## Smokin Joe (24 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I sort of see the point, but it raises the question of why Germany has a lower rate of infection than the UK, and a much lower rate of death from the virus, even though we don't have this limit.
> 
> If you feel it is unreasonable for you, that's fine. but if you are trying to persuade others to agree I think it needs a bit more science or reasoning.


Germany is 47% larger in area than the UK but the number of inhabitants is only about 18% higher, so a lower population density must be a contributer to those figures.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Germany is 47% larger in area than the UK but the number of inhabitants is only about 18% higher, so a lower population density must be a contributer to those figures.



Except that our cities have a much higher population density than many in the UK. I was quite startled when helping Middle Son with a project on York, to find that whereas York has a population density of 506 people per Km² our local town of Esslingen, which is quite similar in appearance, has a distinctly snug 2015 people per Km², and this is by no means the most built up area in Germany. Compared to the UK, people tend to live in low-rise apartments of 2-3 floors here, even villages have this arrangement which is why, if you look at a German village they are often fairly compact compared to the UK equivalent.

Either way it wouldn't account for the large and growing difference between the UK and Germany. Corona related deaths in the UK are now over three times those in Germany, even though the total number of cases in the UK is still lower.


----------



## newfhouse (24 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> if you are trying to persuade others to agree I think it needs a bit more science or reasoning.


Oh, behave!

For the record, I choose to limit my rides to about an hour because if I have an unrepairable failure I can probably still manage a long walk home without needing any interaction. It’s not the law, it’s not within the NPCC guidance, but it feels within the sprit and intention of the regs.

Carry on.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Oh, behave!
> 
> For the record, I choose to limit my rides to about an hour because if I have an unrepairable failure I can probably still manage a long walk home without needing any interaction. It’s not the law, it’s not within the NPCC guidance, but it feels within the sprit and intention of the regs.
> 
> Carry on.



Who, me?

I suppose that is a factor: I'm relatively confident that I can fix things on a ride, and I rarely have a mechanical on my bikes; I even measure the time between punctures in years, so I guess I don't expect to have a problem. That said I ride in loops so it isn't too far to walk back should the need arise.

On the other hand, I really need to keep my riding up to keep my immunity against Corona as high as possible for when I start work next month.


----------



## DaveReading (24 Apr 2020)

buzzy-beans said:


> I know a very large number of responsible people who hold the view that this attitude is TOTALLY unreasonable, and I am one of them!!



Would you care to explain why ?

Either being out on a bike is irresponsible, putting yourself and/or others at risk of catching the virus, in which case you shouldn't be cycling at all.

Or it isn't.


----------



## Fab Foodie (24 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Never existed, apparently rumour from a comment made by Michael Gove


....like most of what comes out of his mouth....
If Gove’s lips are moving, he’s lying....


----------



## Julia9054 (24 Apr 2020)

These days I am a not particularly fast cyclist who enjoys long rides and cafe stops.
Obviously the cafe stops are now not a thing so I do rides from my home of a length I would usually do before stopping to stuff my cake hole. Which in my case is about 35 miles.
I am aware that I am incredibly lucky that I live in a small North Yorkshire market town and within 1 mile of my front door I am in open countryside. Social distancing is much easier for me than for many others.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> ....like most of what comes out of his mouth....
> If Gove’s lips are moving, he’s lying....


I have no opinion about him to be honest


----------



## Fab Foodie (24 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Good today, resting heart rate and blood pressure in the normal ranges.


Phew!


----------



## Accy cyclist (24 Apr 2020)

Does the USA have its own version of April Fools Day,as in today? I'm hearing that President Trump suggests that injecting oneself with disinfectant such as Domestos will kill coronavirus in the body.


----------



## silva (24 Apr 2020)

If it wasn't for the government forced freedom restrictions I wouldn't have noticed there was a flu season more than in other years.


----------



## Rocky (24 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does the USA have its own version of April Fools Day,as in today? I'm hearing that President Trump suggests that injecting oneself with disinfectant such as Domestos will kill coronavirus in the body.


Well it may kill the virus.....but that’s not all it will kill.


----------



## silva (24 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does the USA have its own version of April Fools Day,as in today? I'm hearing that President Trump suggests that injecting oneself with disinfectant such as Domestos will kill coronavirus in the body.


I think sentences were split in selected words to then judge separately.
UV light, disinfect, ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298127/


----------



## winjim (24 Apr 2020)

winjim said:


> Righto, I'm off to get a swab stuck up my nose. Wish me luck.


It wasn't the thing. Heaven knows what the 1yo's got, but it isn't the thing.

Diagnostic sensitivity of the assay notwithstanding...


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Apr 2020)

Been for walk in local park. Trying to alternate cycling and walking to maintain bone health. Park much emptier in places, pre lockdown levels. Wonder if outdoor exercise fatigue has arrived for those not used to it. Or they have got bored or found there are more places to exercise other than the park.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Apr 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Phew!



I know, it was touch and go for a while earlier this week.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (24 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Either way it wouldn't account for the large and growing difference between the UK and Germany. Corona related deaths in the UK are now over three times those in Germany, even though the total number of cases in the UK is still lower.



It comes down to how many are getting tested and who is getting tested. In Germany, testing is more widespread, so virus carriers who are not seriously ill are being identified in large numbers. Because they aren't that ill, proportionally less of them die.
In the UK, generally only those who have had a bad enough dose of virus to put them in hospital are being tested and identified, and more die because they are in a worse state. 
The true infection rate in the UK probably runs to several millions, but most have never been positively identified as having the virus.
I wouldn't be too smug about the relatively low number of deaths in Germany if I were you. Deaths can lag infections for several reasons, and when things start to catch up. Germany's rate could soar like it has in many other places.


----------



## Mugshot (24 Apr 2020)

Gawd bless 'em.


View: https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1253400727357132802?s=20


----------



## Rusty Nails (24 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> There is no one hour rule. This has been shown many, many times but still people refer to it.  I will adhere to it when it becomes a rule, or even shorter times if they become a rule.
> 
> Why is a two hour walk more acceptable than a 90 minute bike ride?


I knew I shouldn't have spoken so soon. We have just had fresh guidelines from the First Minister of the Welsh Assembly. Here is a copy of the bits referring to cycling:

*"What do the new rules on exercise say?*
_That it should be taken "as close as possible to the home".

You should not drive away from home to exercise, with no journeys "of any significant distance"._

*How often can you exercise?*
_Once a day. The time limit is not spelled out, but the rules say four or five hours is out of the question. You must not meet up with friends and must stay two metres apart from other people_.

*How far are you allowed to cycle?*
_A "reasonable walking distance from home". This is not spelled out exactly, but the rules say an accident a long way from home could put more pressure on the NHS.

*Can you cycle to work?*
Only if going to work is justified.

*What other rules must cyclists follow?*
They must cycle alone, or with people from their home. They must stick to routes they know and take care of walkers, runners or other cyclists.

They must stay two metres apart and stop to let people go by.*"*_

Here is the BBC Wales news item:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52416541


I am obviously going to have to plan my routes a bit more carefully. Luckily I live on the edge of the city and can be in the countryside in five minutes so can do a few loops.

I am a bit perturbed that they only see fit to tell cyclists to take care of walkers and runners, and tell us to stop to let people go by. Certainly putting us in our place.

So a lot tougher than England and there are still a lot of areas that are unclear, but that's Mark Drakeford for you


----------



## silva (24 Apr 2020)

There is an objective measurement at hand: the surplus deaths relative to the "normal" death rate (based on population size and life expectancy). In past years with flu seasons, that surplus deaths correlated in time very closely with reported flu figures.
And this comparison can be made immediately, since deaths are reported immediately.
In the past weeks I looked up alot figures related to influenza types flu data from countries / world and frankly, it's hard to call this corona type exceptional.
The only clear differences now are that death tolls get reported every day as headline news, and that governments started to place the same ugly freedom restrictions some of their predecessors did in history.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Gawd bless 'em.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1253400727357132802?s=20




Has anyone asked why they went running to Scotland taking the infection with them after his mum said you should stay at home?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (24 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Gawd bless 'em.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1253400727357132802?s=20




This does annoy me, they seem it think it’s about them. Hey aren’t we great for clapping? Just clap if you want to, but don’t go posting about it online.


----------



## Unkraut (24 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> This does annoy me, they seem it think it’s about them. Hey aren’t we great for clapping? Just clap if you want to, but don’t go posting about it online.


One has servants to do the clapping ....


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (24 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> So a lot tougher than England and there are still a lot of areas that are unclear, but that's Mark Drakeford for you



Drakeford is an idiot. One of those typical politicians who has got an over-inflated idea of his own importance and ability. Do what I do with the sort of shite that such politicians come out with. Just ignore it completely.


----------



## PaulB (25 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> Pendle then......


So encouraged by my running club members - one of whom lives in the village - I blanked the no-go signs yesterday and went through anyway. No objections raised BUT there's a sign saying 'NHS workers live here, do not approach'! Now my wife works on the front line of the front line, if anyone suggested we put something like that up near our house, she'd laugh in their faces. I did go slower than usual down the long straight hill into the village despite there being no cars at all, just in case a local had 'accidentally' dropped some tacks or tied a rope across the road or something! https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4829918153


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## silva (25 Apr 2020)

Without governments rules people wouldn't be hampered to avoid infection.
For ex I do everything by bike so have to transport everything with it too, and thus I'm not the saturday for the entire week or 1st week of the month for the entire month shopper. I never need/take a shopping cart. Now they force me to take one, and on top of that, they ration the carts, so like just a half dozen carts get touched by everybody.
That's what governments "measures" bring: precisely what they are claimed to avoid.

Last time I checked nobody wanted the flu. Anybody here that wants (to spread) the flu?
I don't need a government / force, really 
Yet, I have since a month a harder time to avoid infection, due to their... measures.
Already at the very beginning of the story, mid march. Friday, after work, I intended to buy bread for the weekend and monday. First supermarket: no bread. It was just at the entry door so I was quick enough to back up to get out. Next supermarket: surprise, same story. But I started to notice something else: on a friday usually more people in the supermarkets, but then it was like overcrowded. About "as worse" as a sunny saturday afternoon. But I didn't take the time to think about, jumped on my bike to a nearby city. In the first supermarket there, I first started to realize something was going on. It wasn't just crowded, it was insane, alike they had thrown money on the ground and everybody wanting to grab it. Also, the amount garbage outside and inside the supermarket.. there are always some empty boxes there, but it was far beyond.
I again had to wrestle (yea haha) through the crowd, to again find no bread, and wrestle back out.

Then, the next supermarket, closer to the cities center. It was surrealistic. Already on the parking lot, piles of boxes, couldn't even find a place to stall my bike, had to roll a container against the wall. Inside the supermarket it was a ravage. Broken window at the entry, again empty boxes, but now totally torn apart. Products content (sugar, coffee, liquids) scattered around. When passing the counters, I finally became aware what was going on, personell of the supermarket talked to eachother, one saying that upon opening that morning, an whole crowd people was awaiting to flood the supermarket, wrecking everything on its path.
The reason: the evening before, the government had announced forced closure of shops. The biggest idiot in the world knows then that people gonna hampster, and that was what happened. Legalized force, so called to prevent people concentrations, causing the precisely that.

I already wasn't a government fan before, but now they've done completely for me.

Afterwards, I decided to look up flu data, in order to give it all a context, a base to form an opinion. If I look at history, all flu death peaks correlate with government measures, most if not all not even directly relevant. For ex, the most severe pandemic in human recorded history was the flu of 1918-1919. 50-100 million people died, a multiply of the worldwar I fighting deaths. But notably: the biggest contaminations and death tolls were on government organized people concentrations: soldiers recruitment camps, ship transports and other warfare related. So one could easily blame governments that massive death toll. And to take into account: the world population was back then just a fraction of nowadays.


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

Beautiful Daughter has just been sent two cotton face masks with pretty flowers, courtesy of some friends in the next village, so she's set up for next week at least.


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

I'm hoping someone will make a face mask with a Welsh flag: if nothing else it'll be a conversation starter for my clients.


----------



## marinyork (25 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm hoping someone will make a face mask with a Welsh flag: if nothing else it'll be a conversation starter for my clients.



I'm sure. There are companies out there that are marketing (surgical mask not ffp1/2/3s) funky designs or design your own. I've had quite a few emails (don't know why lol).


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

marinyork said:


> I'm sure. There are companies out there that are marketing (surgical mask not ffp1/2/3s) funky designs or design your own. I've had quite a few emails (don't know why lol).



The protected workshop I'm going to work at may well start making them: they already have a sewing section which makes sails for toy boats: as these are predominantly sold to tourists I suspect they'll be changing their products a bit this year.


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

Beautiful Wife reports the Father-in-Law's surgery in Japan has had its first corona positive patient. They reported this straight away and the health department immediately isolated and tested the receptionist, nurse and doctor who dealt with them: patients are already isolated on the premises so they had no contact with the infected person.


----------



## silva (25 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> The protected workshop I'm going to work at may well start making them: they already have a sewing section which makes sails for toy boats: as these are predominantly sold to tourists I suspect they'll be changing their products a bit this year.


Nearly all epidemics go as fast as they come. Look at the spanish flu on the year timeline. Look at the NZ trooptransport https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294590/ on the week timeline.





So I guess it will be a typical government story: first shortage then excess (vice versa also possible).
Maybe they can sew 2 together, to sell as bikini's for summer 2020 haha.


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> It comes down to how many are getting tested and who is getting tested. In Germany, testing is more widespread, so virus carriers who are not seriously ill are being identified in large numbers. Because they aren't that ill, proportionally less of them die.
> In the UK, generally only those who have had a bad enough dose of virus to put them in hospital are being tested and identified, and more die because they are in a worse state.



You say that as if it's a good thing: it could also mean that Germany is being more successful in combating the virus because they are following WHO guidelines.



SkipdiverJohn said:


> The true infection rate in the UK probably runs to several millions, but most have never been positively identified as having the virus.



It could also mean that the UK is under reporting the number of deaths _and _cases, because people not tested or dying in a hospital aren't being recoorded as dying from Corona. This doesn't fill me with confidence.



SkipdiverJohn said:


> I wouldn't be too smug about the relatively low number of deaths in Germany if I were you. Deaths can lag infections for several reasons, and when things start to catch up. Germany's rate could soar like it has in many other places.



I've had a look and I don't see that in other countries: there something of a lag as you describe but I don't see it "soaring" in comparison to the numbers of cases. Even with China and Iran, both cases and deaths spike relatively early and then decline slowly, but I may have missed somewhere.


----------



## Andy in Germany (25 Apr 2020)

silva said:


> Nearly all epidemics go as fast as they come. Look at the spanish flu on the year timeline. Look at the NZ trooptransport https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294590/ on the week timeline.



I'm not sure an isolated instance with a tiny sample on one troop ship a century ago can be used to predict how a very different virus will react in various countries today.

There isn't a shortage locally as far as I know, but the state government has warned that masks may be mandatory in public spaces like supermarkets and transport for about two years, so there's a market for reusable masks opening up and tiny companies are starting to make them: I just got one from a clothing alterations shop.



silva said:


> Maybe they can sew 2 together, to sell as bikini's for summer 2020 haha.



This is actually the exact reverse of how some face mask manufacturers began: they were making lingerie and realised they could use the "form" in another situation.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (25 Apr 2020)

*Mod note:*

For the benefit of members just joining this conversation, can I remind you that we are not doing conspiracy theories, or misinformation on CycleChat.

If you want to make claims about covid19 please back them up with a reputable source. I'm really not sure what an article about the spread of a different illness (covid19 is not an influenza as far as I understand) in the confined space of a troop ship is meant to prove.

*Edit:* Actually I see that to those in the field of study, the rate of infection, deaths and recovery would be important information for that illness. Otherwise, it shows that once everyone on board had either died, recovered or shown a natural immunity, the outbreak ended......... well, no shoot Sherlock.


----------



## Smokin Joe (25 Apr 2020)

An interesting take on the situation, particularly with regard to care home deaths -

https://thecritic.co.uk/its-hurting-but-its-just-not-working/


----------



## SpokeyDokey (25 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> These days I am a not particularly fast cyclist who enjoys long rides and cafe stops.
> Obviously the cafe stops are now not a thing so I do rides from my home of a length I would usually do before stopping *to stuff my cake hole.* Which in my case is about 35 miles.
> I am aware that I am incredibly lucky that I live in a small North Yorkshire market town and within 1 mile of my front door I am in open countryside. Social distancing is much easier for me than for many others.



I used to get a clout off of my mum for using that turn of phrase. 

We are in the same position as you although the countryside starts at the perimeter of our garden. Yesterday I cycled 23 miles, had a 5 mile walk with Lovely Wife and went up the hill behind the house in the evening to watch the stunning sunset over the mountains.

Total humans spotted during all 3 activities were 4 cyclists and 3 walkers - all at way over the 2m minimum separation distance.


----------



## Accy cyclist (25 Apr 2020)

Choose 10 family or friends says the government. I could just about find 2 or 3. How can I make the numbers up?


----------



## SpokeyDokey (25 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Gawd bless 'em.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1253400727357132802?s=20




How does Charles manage to look more like a Spitting Image puppet than a real Spitting Image puppet?


----------



## SpokeyDokey (25 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I knew I shouldn't have spoken so soon. We have just had fresh guidelines from the First Minister of the Welsh Assembly. Here is a copy of the bits referring to cycling:
> 
> *"What do the new rules on exercise say?*
> _That it should be taken "as close as possible to the home".
> ...



You can't beat a united front that's for sure.


----------



## Rocky (25 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Choose 10 family or friends says the government. I could just about find 2 or 3. How can I make the numbers up?


How about every single Accrington Stanley supporter? That should take you to 8.


----------



## Dave7 (25 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> How about every single Accrington Stanley supporter? That should take you to 8.


Thats pushing things a bit


----------



## Levo-Lon (25 Apr 2020)

Apparently there are hardly any cases in Peterborough hospital.
ICU is almost empty.

Information from a nurse I know who works in the department.

Good news I think


----------



## tyred (25 Apr 2020)

My Mum's oldest brother lives in a care home in Aberdeen. It has been confirmed today that he has Covid-19


----------



## silva (25 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm not sure an isolated instance with a tiny sample on one troop ship a century ago can be used to predict how a very different virus will react in various countries today.


I gave two example cases just to illustrate, the worldwide figures and the troop ship figures. They matched, for the same reason. Also other flu years show such steep figure peaks followed by equally steep drops. Flus went as fast as they came.



Andy in Germany said:


> There isn't a shortage locally as far as I know, but the state government has warned that masks may be mandatory in public spaces like supermarkets and transport for about two years, so there's a market for reusable masks opening up and tiny companies are starting to make them: I just got one from a clothing alterations shop.
> 
> This is actually the exact reverse of how some face mask manufacturers began: they were making lingerie and realised they could use the "form" in another situation.


Shortages and excesses cannot exist in a free market since price mechanism corrects it on the fly at a resolution of 1 trade. It's only when force comes into play, licenses have to be obtained, and other interference typical by State.
Remember, it wasn't the virus that forced a whole population part out of production, it was the government. Just like back in 1918-19, the most severe flu recorded so far, it were governments forcing whole population parts to concentrate (for war), effectively easing virus spread and subsequently whole population parts out of production/service. The virus was then just an intermediate through which the governments force acted.
And why did face mask manufacturers begin? Simply: government orders. It's always tempting to receive customers by force. That's the very reason and definition of what is named "lobbying". Added to that, clothes shops were/are among the forced-closed. They lost all but online orders. Of course they took with both hands the opportunity to sell clothes modified for other purpose. 
Masks are quite ineffective too. It's a trade off between breathing ability and filtering. In my opinion the entire mask story is more about propaganda "we all work together to fight..." than usefulness.


----------



## tom73 (25 Apr 2020)

You studied the whole area of face coverings for general public have you ? 
If not why not take the trouble to look at the work of some who have. 
https://www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/
The more you look at the anti view points the more you see they are equally lacking any real sound argument. 
The filtering argument is the same for catching a sneeze in a tissue. No-one really has a problem with that idea. 
Stopping 95% of any droplets is better than none.


----------



## Andy in Germany (26 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> You studied the whole area of face coverings for general public have you ?
> If not why not take the trouble to look at the work of some who have.
> https://www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/
> The more you look at the anti view points the more you see they are equally lacking any real sound argument.
> ...



Indeed, I'm guessing there's a reason why masks have been used in places like surgery and other sterile places for quite a long time now...


----------



## tom73 (26 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Indeed, I'm guessing there's a reason why masks have been used in places like surgery and other sterile places for quite a long time now...


The main thing to remember in the whole general mass mask wearing is. We are not talking about clinical grade masks but some type of face covering. Clinical masks belong in the hands of the ones who need them. 
Most mask wearing only really mostly protect people from the wearer. Higher grade ones however protect both.


----------



## Andy in Germany (26 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> The main thing to remember in the whole general mass mask wearing is. We are not talking about clinical grade masks but some type of face covering. Clinical masks belong in the hands of the ones who need them.
> Most mask wearing only really mostly protect people from the wearer. Higher grade ones however protect both.



I've noticed that cotton reusable masks are becoming the norm for most people, which is typically German: people who can sew are making them for friends so there's all kinds of designs appearing.

Thankfully there's no shortage of masks here, so it doesn't matter who wears what...


----------



## Levo-Lon (26 Apr 2020)

My care organisation is nearly upto 300 deaths, some homes have lost a quarter of their residents in a very short period.

Can't imagine what this is doing for staff morale.


----------



## marinyork (26 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've noticed that cotton reusable masks are becoming the norm for most people, which is typically German: people who can sew are making them for friends so there's all kinds of designs appearing.
> 
> Thankfully there's no shortage of masks here, so it doesn't matter who wears what...



When people say masks in the UK much of the time it means FFP1, FFP2, FFP3 and similarly in America it means N95.

I'm not sure there is so much a shortage of other masks in the UK. My father was given a mask by the hospital for the journey back by patient transport and looks almost exactly like some shots on tv in UK/Spain.


----------



## Smokin Joe (26 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> My care organisation is nearly upto 300 deaths, some homes have lost a quarter of their residents in a very short period.
> 
> Can't imagine what this is doing for staff morale.


I linked to an article in a magazine called "The Critic" (New publication) a couple of pages ago and they published a graph on care home deaths which is worth a look -


----------



## tom73 (26 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> My care organisation is nearly upto 300 deaths, some homes have lost a quarter of their residents in a very short period.
> 
> Can't imagine what this is doing for staff morale.



Specialist homes that typically have small numbers of residents are really suffering.
One home with 18 residents has lost 1/2 of them already. 
Sadly once the virus get's in it's extremely hard to stop it. Homes are not set up for social distancing and some such as ones with dementia.
Have routine that's often inc wondering round trying to get them to stay put and not touch stuff is difficult if not impossible. 
Some homes have gone into total lock down none in or out. Look's to be really only option but then not without risks and hard to maintain.
Management really need to have staff good will for it work sadly many lost it years ago.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Apr 2020)

I went to a local dentist intending to ask about some treatment. They were closed. I thought dentists were allowed to stay open? Unless it's personal choice and the dentist in question fears catching the virus.


----------



## tom73 (29 Apr 2020)

No all treatment stopped on the 20th march they are only open for stuff like prescriptions. 
NHS England are setting up Urgent Dental Care hubs (UDCs) for all emergency treatment for both covid or none covid patients
If you phone your dentist they will most likely have a recored message tell you more. 
Or if it's an emergency or joy with your dentist then phone 111


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> No all treatment stopped on the 20th march they are only open for stuff like prescriptions.
> NHS England are setting up Urgent Dental Care hubs (UDCs) for all emergency treatment for both covid or none covid patients
> If you phone your dentist they will most likely have a recored message tell you more.
> Or if it's an emergency or joy with your dentist then phone 111


Yes,they had a note explaining similar on the door. It's not an emergency,so it'll wait. I was just going to ask about teeth capping and how much it'd cost. Just unfortunate that when i eventually got round to doing something about my slightly wonky(ish) teeth i chose a time when they can't help me.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I linked to an article in a magazine called "The Critic" (New publication) a couple of pages ago and they published a graph on care home deaths which is worth a look -
> 
> View attachment 518048



The data I'm sure is genuine, maybe worth noting that "The Critic" appears to be yet another opportunity for rich right wing businessmen to get their otherwise little heard views across. 

Funded by this fella:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hosking

Employs Toby Young.


----------



## pawl (29 Apr 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> How about every single Accrington Stanley supporter? That should take you to 8.




Don’t forget the one man and his dog


----------



## Smokin Joe (29 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went to a local dentist intending to ask about some treatment. They were closed. I thought dentists were allowed to stay open? Unless it's personal choice and the dentist in question fears catching the virus.


There was an item on Welsh news about that last night. Dentists are in the most vulnerable category when it comes to exposure from a virus due to the saliva spraying from the patients mouth when they are drilling or cleaning. The surgery would also need a deep clean are every patient. Emergency care is available in some places, but only for people in pain and it is extractions only, no repairs.


----------



## Smokin Joe (29 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> *The data I'm sure is genuine,* maybe worth noting that "The Critic" appears to be yet another opportunity for rich right wing businessmen to get their otherwise little heard views across.
> 
> Funded by this fella:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hosking
> ...


Same data repeated on either the BBC or the Guardian, I forget which. Because the political views of those reporting something may not appeal to you does not automatically make it wrong.

Mind you, there is so much conflicting information about all aspects of Covid 19 I'll agree that everything should be taken with a degree of sceptisism.


----------



## vickster (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> There was an item on Welsh news about that last night. Dentists are in the most vulnerable category when it comes to exposure from a virus due to the saliva spraying from the patients mouth when they are drilling or cleaning. The surgery would also need a deep clean are every patient. Emergency care is available in some places, but only for people in pain and it is extractions only, no repairs.


Dentists have just been allowed to reopen in Switzerland along with hairdressers albeit strict measures

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-business-idUKKCN2291R5


----------



## roubaixtuesday (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Same data repeated on either the BBC or the Guardian, I forget which. Because the political views of those reporting something may not appeal to you does not automatically make it wrong.
> 
> Mind you, there is so much conflicting information about all aspects of Covid 19 I'll agree that everything should be taken with a degree of sceptisism.



Fully agree. Just an aside on media ownership really.


----------



## winjim (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> There was an item on Welsh news about that last night. Dentists are in the most vulnerable category when it comes to exposure from a virus due to the saliva spraying from the patients mouth when they are drilling or cleaning. The surgery would also need a deep clean are every patient. Emergency care is available in some places, but only for people in pain and it is extractions only, no repairs.


Barring emergencies I can't for the life of me imagine why anybody would want to go to the dentist under current circumstances. We had a family appointment back in mid March, before lockdown, but I cancelled it, there was no way I was going to let somebody poke around in mine and my family's mouths, or even just sit in a waiting room. No chance.


----------



## Accy cyclist (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> There was an item on Welsh news about that last night. Dentists are in the most vulnerable category when it comes to exposure from a virus due to the saliva spraying from the patients mouth when they are drilling or cleaning. The surgery would also need a deep clean are every patient. Emergency care is available in some places, but only for people in pain and it is extractions only, no repairs.


Ah well,like I said it's not urgent. Imagine if someone were to lose their front teeth by eating something hard causing the crown to break off. Or losing their false teeth down the toilet or summat! Not an emergency,but not a nice situation to be in!


----------



## fossyant (29 Apr 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> My care organisation is nearly upto 300 deaths, some homes have lost a quarter of their residents in a very short period.
> 
> Can't imagine what this is doing for staff morale.



Crikey


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went to a local dentist intending to ask about some treatment. They were closed. I thought dentists were allowed to stay open? Unless it's personal choice and the dentist in question fears catching the virus.



Emergency treatment only


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> Don’t forget the one man and his dog



Busy mowing a meadow


----------



## Rezillo (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Same data repeated on either the BBC or the Guardian, I forget which. Because the political views of those reporting something may not appeal to you does not automatically make it wrong.



There is quite a lot wrong, though, with that article. For example, he is assuming that care home deaths where Covid-19 is not mentioned as a cause or as a factor, are dying of other causes and then, somewhat bizarrely, he is blaming those "non-Covid-19" deaths on the lockdown. 

This ignores the fact that care home deaths have been occuring for weeks without anywhere near full Covid-19 testing. As a result, it can't be assumed that all care home deaths recorded solely as, say, cardiac failure or pneumonia are all not due to Covid-19, especially when those causes of death are precisely how the virus kills.

Having completely misrepresented the ONS death bar chart, he then says "How can it be clearer?". Idiot.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Dentists have just been allowed to reopen in Switzerland along with hairdressers albeit strict measures
> 
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-business-idUKKCN2291R5



So you can get your hair and teeth done at the same time🤔


----------



## Smokin Joe (29 Apr 2020)

Rezillo said:


> There is quite a lot wrong, though, with that article. For example, he is assuming that care home deaths where Covid-19 is not mentioned as a cause or as a factor, are dying of other causes and then, somewhat bizarrely, he is blaming those "non-Covid-19" deaths on the lockdown.
> 
> This ignores the fact that care home deaths have been occuring for weeks without anywhere near full Covid-19 testing. As a result, it can't be assumed that all care home deaths recorded solely as, say, cardiac failure or pneumonia are all not due to Covid-19, especially when those causes of death are precisely how the virus kills.
> 
> Having completely misrepresented the ONS death bar chart, he then says "How can it be clearer?". Idiot.


I get what you say, nothing can really be proven as to the cause of the spike in deaths. But one reason put forward is that people are avoiding reporting other symptoms that they normally would due to a fear of going into hospital and being exposed to the virus. Elderly people are more likely to be anxious over this because of their increased vulnerability.

It will be a long time yet before the dust settles and we have any idea of the true scale of fatalities caused by Covid 19.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

We are good today. Did some low intensity cycling today


----------



## Rezillo (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I get what you say, nothing can really be proven as to the cause of the spike in deaths. But one reason put forward is that people are avoiding reporting other symptoms that they normally would due to a fear of going into hospital and being exposed to the virus. Elderly people are more likely to be anxious over this because of their increased vulnerability.
> 
> It will be a long time yet before the dust settles and we have any idea of the true scale of fatalities caused by Covid 19.



Fear of Covid-19-affected hospitals, giving rise to deaths at home from non-Covid-19 causes, is undoubtably behind some of the deaths but how many is not known. I'm not sure it ever will be now those who died with non-Covid-19 certified conditions have been cremated or buried. Probably a paper review to compare, say, typical time of year cardiac cause numbers with actual.

For care homes, the decision for ambulance callout is not the patient's, it's the care home manager, who will have a strict checklist to follow. No matter what the resident wants to do, the ambulance comes regardless. My frail mother-in-law was forever having minor incidents that resulted in callouts because they fulfilled the home's checklist. We would go there, usually in the small hours of the morning, to find her recovered but we would still have to wait for the paramedics to arrive, who were patient and thorough. If there was any doubt, they would insist on hospital admission. I suppose technically she could have refused to go but it was never an issue. Eventually, her scare wasn't a scare but the real thing.


----------



## Andy in Germany (29 Apr 2020)

Rezillo said:


> Fear of Covid-19-affected hospitals, giving rise to deaths at home from non-Covid-19 causes, is undoubtably behind some of the deaths but how many is not known. I'm not sure it ever will be now those who died with non-Covid-19 certified conditions have been cremated or buried. Probably a paper review to compare, say, typical time of year cardiac cause numbers with actual.



This would also be a universal fear anywhere in the world, so it doesn't account for the much higher death toll in the UK.


----------



## pawl (30 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Busy mowing a meadow





He can come and do mine when he is free.


----------



## Julia9054 (30 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> He can come and do mine when he is free.


Al has been stress/boredom mowing ours constantly. We now have a brown dust bowl!


----------



## Rezillo (30 Apr 2020)

Rezillo said:


> There is quite a lot wrong, though, with that article. For example, he is assuming that care home deaths where Covid-19 is not mentioned as a cause or as a factor, are dying of other causes and then, somewhat bizarrely, he is blaming those "non-Covid-19" deaths on the lockdown.
> 
> This ignores the fact that care home deaths have been occuring for weeks without anywhere near full Covid-19 testing. As a result, it can't be assumed that all care home deaths recorded solely as, say, cardiac failure or pneumonia are all not due to Covid-19, especially when those causes of death are precisely how the virus kills.
> 
> Having completely misrepresented the ONS death bar chart, he then says "How can it be clearer?". Idiot.





Smokin Joe said:


> I get what you say, nothing can really be proven as to the cause of the spike in deaths. But one reason put forward is that people are avoiding reporting other symptoms that they normally would due to a fear of going into hospital and being exposed to the virus. Elderly people are more likely to be anxious over this because of their increased vulnerability.
> 
> It will be a long time yet before the dust settles and we have any idea of the true scale of fatalities caused by Covid 19.



Unfortunately, the same fundamental error, of failure to appreciate that Covid-19 deaths outside hospitals were for weeks not being tested and certified with Covid-19 as cause or contributor, is shown in a Telegraph column today. Like the Critic article, it also blames the lockdown for "non-Covid-19" excess deaths without any realisation that the non-Covid figures are substantially affected by such a simple artefact as lack of testing.

This is unintentionally ironically titled "A mass breakdown over the limits of science." You couldn't make it up.


----------



## C R (30 Apr 2020)

A friend from primary school died of Covid yesterday. 48 years old, though with a heart condition.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (1 May 2020)

Started my next lockdown challenge -


----------



## Ming the Merciless (1 May 2020)

Good today. Did an easy ride taking in some bridleways. Rain meant I didn’t see anyone at all.


----------



## Accy cyclist (1 May 2020)

A question to those who watch 'soap operas'. Are they still on tv and if so are they up to date with the virus? Meaning are they practising social distancing, or are they showing months old episodes? If they are then the Rovers Return,The Queen Vic' and The Woolpack will still be open i take it.


----------



## tyred (1 May 2020)

My exercise restriction has been increased from 2km to 5km


----------



## GM (1 May 2020)

Thought this was quite witty...


----------



## Julia9054 (1 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> A question to those who watch 'soap operas'. Are they still on tv and if so are they up to date with the virus? Meaning are they practising social distancing, or are they showing months old episodes? If they are then the Rovers Return,The Queen Vic' and The Woolpack will still be open i take it.


Eastenders stopped filming some time ago. They have gone from broadcasting 4 episodes a week to 2 episodes to make the completed filmed episodes last as long as possible. Before the broadcast of each episode, the programme announcer says something like “filmed before the current restrictions . . . “
I guess soaps will just go off air when they run out of material


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Eastenders stopped filming some time ago. They have gone from broadcasting 4 episodes a week to 2 episodes to make the completed filmed episodes last as long as possible. Before the broadcast of each episode, the programme announcer says something like “filmed before the current restrictions . . . “
> I guess soaps will just go off air when they run out of material



Every cloud, et c...


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

I've got to travel about 200k across Germany today. Apparently we have a maximum of 2 people in a car, and we aren't allowed to just go riding for a jolly, so I'll make sure my contract is easily reachable in case we get stopped and asked where we are going...


----------



## Mike_P (2 May 2020)

Been given a letter by work to show if I have to travel.


----------



## Slick (2 May 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Been given a letter by work to show if I have to travel.


So have I. Its like having a note from your mum.


----------



## Rezillo (2 May 2020)

Slick said:


> So have I. Its like having a note from your mum.



Inexpertly forged, then


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (2 May 2020)

Good to see it's not just our lot


View: https://twitter.com/LauraRound/status/1256255620853923840


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 May 2020)

Good here. Did a walk along a river today. Skylarks a plenty and crops coming on well.


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've got to travel about 200k across Germany today. Apparently we have a maximum of 2 people in a car, and we aren't allowed to just go riding for a jolly, so I'll make sure my contract is easily reachable in case we get stopped and asked where we are going...



Nobody was interested...


----------



## Slick (2 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Nobody was interested...


It's the same here, no real interest in policing non essential travel. Roads felt like they were back to near usual levels today.


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

Slick said:


> It's the same here, no real interest in policing non essential travel. Roads felt like they were back to near usual levels today.



We can travel longer distances, just not for a happy holiday somewhere...


----------



## Unkraut (2 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Nobody was interested...


It vould haff been different if you had gone by train ...


----------



## Unkraut (2 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> We can travel longer distances, just not for a happy holiday somewhere...


My neighbours have today travelled to the east (Halle) to see their granddaughter who was born a month ago. Slightly grey area, but I think they are going to have to sleep in a church hall as all the hotels are still closed.


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

Unkraut said:


> It vould haff been different if you had gone by train ...
> 
> View attachment 519489



Hmm. I'm going by train next week...

I clearly need to get a hat.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Nobody was interested...



Please present your papers to the Cyclechat Corona moral police 👮‍♀️


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

Unkraut said:


> My neighbours have today travelled to the east (Halle) to see their granddaughter who was born a month ago. *Slightly grey area...*



I'm not sure the citizens of Halle would like to hear it described that way, but I see the point...


----------



## newfhouse (2 May 2020)

Slick said:


> Roads felt like they were back to near usual levels today.


I went to work today as there are a few things I can only do in the office, so I thought it better to shift my working week and go in when nobody else was there. I passed through Norbury and Streatham and the road traffic and crowded pavements were like any normal Saturday. I reckon >50% of businesses were open, including a couple of second hand car dealers.


----------



## Andy in Germany (2 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Please present your papers to the Cyclechat Corona moral police 👮‍♀️



From Friday the 15th I'm a keyworker in an organisation looking after psychologically disabled people. The organisation is short of staff, and this was organised before Lockdown, and indeed delayed by one month already.

I'm sure that won't satisfy everyone, but then, I'm 1000km away...


----------



## Slick (2 May 2020)

newfhouse said:


> I went to work today as there are a few things I can only do in the office, so I thought it better to shift my working week and go in when nobody else was there. I passed through Norbury and Streatham and the road traffic and crowded pavements were like any normal Saturday. I reckon >50% of businesses were open, including a couple of second hand car dealers.


I do the same twice a week and noticed a definite rise in traffic on the motorway as I cross a flyover as I cycle to work. It's not leisure traffic at that time of morning so I could only assume more work places were finding new ways of working allowing more people back to work. I can't say I noticed more businesses open today, but traffic on the roads were definitely much busier with lots of people out and about which did make me wonder where they were all going. Can't blame them really as we stopped to admire a view and we met a very nice lady who told us she lives alone and is really struggling with the lack of human contact. We kept our distance especially when she said she is shielding but we did manage to have a bit of a chinwag with her before going on our merry way. I think the lockdown is creaking at the seems, which is when I think we need to be most careful.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (2 May 2020)

I've got shed companies and the like going back on Monday. Some of the big production facilities are going back on the 18th. Most of the local traffic round here has been the boy racers - who never stopped to be fair. How they can fly around the town constantly with 4 or 5 of them in their Corsas at a time I don't know. The junkies didn't change their habits either, still meeting their dealer in the usual place and wandering round in groups off their faces.


----------



## slowmotion (2 May 2020)

Forty five minutes ago, I discovered that Hyde Park Corner is a whole lot less stimulating without heavy traffic. I had to have a stiff drink when I got home as some kind of compensation.


----------



## Unkraut (3 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> From Friday the 15th I'm a keyworker in an organisation ...


I gratulate you on your new job.


----------



## Dave7 (3 May 2020)

slowmotion said:


> Forty five minutes ago, I discovered that Hyde Park Corner is a whole lot less stimulating without heavy traffic. I had to have a stiff drink when I got home as some kind of compensation.


Reading that upset me so much that I am also having a stiff drink to support you


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (3 May 2020)

Some people -


View: https://youtu.be/Q5tSPbThaTg


----------



## Smokin Joe (3 May 2020)

Just after Christmas Mrs SJ came out in an itchy rash all over her back. The doctor couldn't pin it down and told her it looked like some sort of virus, giving her some cream to rub in. It took over a month to get rid of it. I've since read somewhere that a rash can be a mild form of Covid 19, and a week or so after she got it I had a slight but nagging head cold that took three weeks to clear. I wonder if we were both infected with only mild symptoms?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> From Friday the 15th I'm a keyworker in an organisation



A typist?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Just after Christmas Mrs SJ came out in an itchy rash all over her back. The doctor couldn't pin it down and told her it looked like some sort of virus, giving her some cream to rub in. It took over a month to get rid of it. I've since read somewhere that a rash can be a mild form of Covid 19, and a week or so after she got it I had a slight but nagging head cold that took three weeks to clear. I wonder if we were both infected with only mild symptoms?



Yes that has come out of a Spanish report.

Like many of us you are wondering if you’ve had it in mild form. Many are in this position but lack of testing means we don’t currently know.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 May 2020)

Strange runny nose this morning. Had it a few times since early March. Cleared up by mid morning. Weird one but otherwise feel fine.


----------



## Rusty Nails (3 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> A typist?


 No. A caretaker.


----------



## vickster (3 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Just after Christmas Mrs SJ came out in an itchy rash all over her back. The doctor couldn't pin it down and told her it looked like some sort of virus, giving her some cream to rub in. It took over a month to get rid of it. I've since read somewhere that a rash can be a mild form of Covid 19, and a week or so after she got it I had a slight but nagging head cold that took three weeks to clear. I wonder if we were both infected with only mild symptoms?


Had she been eating bats in China to have caught it last year?


----------



## newfhouse (4 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Just after Christmas Mrs SJ came out in an itchy rash all over her back. The doctor couldn't pin it down and told her it looked like some sort of virus, giving her some cream to rub in. It took over a month to get rid of it. I've since read somewhere that a rash can be a mild form of Covid 19, and a week or so after she got it I had a slight but nagging head cold that took three weeks to clear. I wonder if we were both infected with only mild symptoms?


I have heard lots of people reporting similar, but I wonder if that was a different illness. If COVID-19 was circulating widely in January, why was there no spike in acute cases and excess deaths? We are all being so vigilant that run-of-the-mill winter colds or even hay fever become candidates. I’m not a medical doctor, just asking in the hope someone may have answers.


----------



## Andy in Germany (4 May 2020)

Schools are reopening here, if slowly. Middle Son is in the penultimate year before exams so he's going to lessons again from today. Younger Son is still at home, which is unfortunate because he really needs the routine at the moment.


----------



## marinyork (4 May 2020)

newfhouse said:


> I have heard lots of people reporting similar, but I wonder if that was a different illness. If COVID-19 was circulating widely in January, why was there no spike in acute cases and excess deaths? We are all being so vigilant that run-of-the-mill winter colds or even hay fever become candidates. I’m not a medical doctor, just asking in the hope someone may have answers.



The only pointers in that direction seem to be a genetic study in Iceland that pointed out that bits of the population acquired it originally from people from the UK and Germany. There's the nursing home aspect, was it circulating in low numbers in nursing homes in Jan/Feb just like say Washington State?

We now know the first death in the UK wasn't the first death and there had been a week earlier and a few more.

We may find out in 3-4 month's time when some people are likely to have taken a kit or a full serology test.

My father has colds, infections and vague covid-19 type and does so throughout the winter. He's had 3x the last ten weeks and none are the virus (including the current infection). He's never had the virus though and I know so because he's had 2 serology tests and 3 nose jobbies.


----------



## fossyant (4 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Yes that has come out of a Spanish report.
> 
> Like many of us you are wondering if you’ve had it in mild form. Many are in this position but lack of testing means we don’t currently know.



Roche may have an antibody test very soon. I came down bad in mid December - bad enough for the Doc to send me for lung xrays as I was struggling to breath and stats were around 92-94 for a few days.

Now we have an office in Wuhan, so chances are some staff could have brought something back, but I won't know until I can buy a test. We had quite a few staff off around that time, but it could also have been seasonal bugs. I'd had 'flu' in October, and this was different.


----------



## marinyork (4 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> Roche may have an antibody test very soon. I came down bad in mid December - bad enough for the Doc to send me for lung xrays as I was struggling to breath and stats were around 92-94 for a few days.
> 
> Now we have an office in Wuhan, so chances are some staff could have brought something back, but I won't know until I can buy a test. We had quite a few staff off around that time, but it could also have been seasonal bugs. I'd had 'flu' in October, and this was different.



It definitely exists already. Roche already has a reliable antibody test. It needs to run in a lab though. I think the media calling it a test kit is highly unhelpful though. There may well be a few tens to hundreds of thousands of these given to people in the UK in the next 3-4 months depending on what the UK can get hold of, but it'll be dished out by the government most likely. Be interesting if other companies can get hold of them and flog them though, where do you buy in the lab capacity to send it back to if you're selling them?


----------



## glasgowcyclist (4 May 2020)

vickster said:


> Had she been eating bats in China to have caught it last year?



There is a claim from a French doctor that samples from a patient who presented with respiratory symptoms in December 2019 tested positive for Covid19, so it may have been around (in the West) far earlier than previously believed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52524001

_"... an intensive care chief in the Paris region has told local media that the virus was present in France on 27 December - a month before the first cases were confirmed._​​_Yves Cohen told broadcaster BFMTV that his team had revisited negative tests for flu and other coronaviruses on 24 patients who had been in hospital with respiratory symptoms in December and January._​​_"Of the 24 patients, we had one positive result for Covid-19 on 27 December when he was in hospital with us," he said, adding that the test had been repeated several times to confirm the result._​​_Dr Cohen said he had reported the case to the regional health authorities and called for other negative tests from the same period to be re-examined."_​


----------



## snorri (4 May 2020)

Bored with the monotony of lockdown?
Why not take a trip through a trainwash?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbS0NHIKvJE


----------



## Andy in Germany (5 May 2020)

Masks are now mandatory in shops, public transport, banks and government offices etc here. I handed over my ID card twice yesterday, once to register my address, and once when asking about my account.
Obviously my ID has my photo on it, but they never asked me to remove my mask for a second or two to check that what was underneath was the same. I wonder how long that will last?
As an aside, it means we are all now walking into banks with our faces covered, which feels very weird.


----------



## newfhouse (5 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> As an aside, it means we are all now walking into banks with our faces covered, which feels very weird.


It’s amusing to see some of the people who claimed that Muslim women with covered faces were a security risk are now vocally in favour of compulsory masks.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Masks are now mandatory in shops,



They’re also mandatory in shops in Michigan where, sadly, a security guard was shot dead for refusing entry to a woman who wasn’t wearing one. It wasn’t even a heat of the moment thing, the family left then returned to murder the guard, shooting him in the back of the head. There are some pretty farked up people in this world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52540266


----------



## winjim (5 May 2020)

marinyork said:


> It definitely exists already. Roche already has a reliable antibody test. It needs to run in a lab though. I think the media calling it a test kit is highly unhelpful though. There may well be a few tens to hundreds of thousands of these given to people in the UK in the next 3-4 months depending on what the UK can get hold of, but it'll be dished out by the government most likely. Be interesting if other companies can get hold of them and flog them though, where do you buy in the lab capacity to send it back to if you're selling them?


You send it to any accredited clinical laboratory with a suitable Roche immunoanalyser and which is willing to verify the assay, which could include NHS laboratories. Non essential work has been scaled right back so labs are actually pretty quiet just now.

But all the major manufacturers will be working on their own Ab tests. I know at least one other company claims to have one ready to go. As for 'reliable', I don't know about that, have Roche published any data on diagnostic sensitivity and specificity?

Edit: I just looked it up and they're claiming 100% sensitivity and >99.8% specificity.


----------



## cookiemonster (5 May 2020)

Schools re-opening slowly from the end of this month. with Primary 1-3 (who I teach) back on 15/06.

Gyms re-opening from Friday!


----------



## IaninSheffield (5 May 2020)

Source: https://xkcd.com/2302/







Wonder what a UK-centric version might look like? 🤔


----------



## marinyork (5 May 2020)

winjim said:


> Edit: I just looked it up and they're claiming 100% sensitivity and >99.8% specificity.



Minimum to be accepted by the MHRA is 98% for both. Given the arguments that are looming about health and safety at work and the government weren't exactly forthcoming on telling the truth on the best available actual test kit as opposed to a lab kit, to me they're clearly waiting to use it for health workers returning to work and wait to beat down the prevalence score (see below). These are nice things to do, but we're still in the dark about the percentage of the population that's had it and it doesn't help the huge number of care and health workers that have died or suffered very bad symptoms. 

The FDA approved it. If you believe that as studies in New York City have said that 25% of the city population have had covid-19, that's a very different tool for passports/assessing risk for say Germany which the Bonn study reckoned 2% of the German population had had it.


----------



## PaulB (6 May 2020)




----------



## Andy in Germany (7 May 2020)

The french-German border is currently largely closed at the moment. Yesterday I was cycling through Breisach, which is right on the German side of the Rhine, and saw these, up high on the old fortress where they can be read from France:






(L) FRiendship and (R) "Togehter we are strong" in German and French.


----------



## Mike_P (8 May 2020)

An illustration of peoples attitudes came on Wednesday with an email from work noting that on the two days a week the office has been open only 20 staff had been in on the first few weeks but on Tuesday and the previous Thursday it was 56. Also noticed the local commercial radio station, yes still have one although as its now been acquired by Bauer it's days are probably numbered, had for the start of the lockdown had its three main presenters on every day, one broadcasting from home for a while as his wife had symptoms, but in the last week other voices have started to reappear.


----------



## NorthernDave (8 May 2020)

Got a text from the NHS yesterday advising I'm at high risk "due to my medical condition" and need to self isolate until the end of June unless a medical professional tells me otherwise.
This came as quite a surprise as I don't have any of the conditions on the shielding list. So I rang my GP surgery and they were as perplexed as I am - the extremely helpful receptionist even asked a doctor to review my notes and confirmed there was no reason to self isolate.
They advised to ring the Covid-19 shielding advice line, which I found out is an automated service and you can't actually speak to anyone. 
However, me ringing them appears to have registered me for food parcels... apparently I'll get a phone call about it in a few days, so will ask them to cancel it as I don't need it.

I am awaiting an appointment for a scan, and from multiple posts on social media last night it seems that everyone on that clinics lists got the same text yesterday - so is looking like an admin error.


----------



## vickster (8 May 2020)

My father is under haematology (for something or other), albeit not for a blood malignancy that would require shielding. 
The department wrote to all patients under the service to ensure that those who do need to shield weren’t missed. A 5 minute call confirmed no need to shield - he does have a bunch of co-morbidities and is 78, which puts him on the vulnerable list not extremely vulnerable


----------



## Salty seadog (8 May 2020)

snorri said:


> Bored with the monotony of lockdown?
> Why not take a trip through a trainwash?
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbS0NHIKvJE




Is that like a car wash?
I've been through one of those.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (9 May 2020)

How the Spanish handle lockdown -


View: https://www.facebook.com/jaume.camprubi.90/videos/667512134025863/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTM2MDgzNzg3NToxMjE5NjAzNTExNzA4NTIw/


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## Dave7 (10 May 2020)

@Andy in Germany .
Maybe a daft question but do you get vibes from the general public about VE day ? I imagine even they (in 1945) must have been pleased to hear that it was all over.


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## Slick (10 May 2020)

Dave7 said:


> @Andy in Germany .
> Maybe a daft question but do you get vibes from the general public about VE day ? I imagine even they (in 1945) must have been pleased to hear that it was all over.


I know the question was aimed at Andy but there was a section on the news yesterday that explained that they celebrate as well as they were freed from tyranny at the same time. Apparently they are still mindful about having any displays of military prowess and still holds them back taking a more active role in some conflicts where un forces have been deployed.


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## Accy cyclist (11 May 2020)

So we have to wait until July till the pubs,cafes and restaurants possibly open. I can live with that,seeing as i hoped they'd open in a month,but heard it'd not be until September. Come July and the government says pubs etc can't open i hope they rebel and open up again. I know 'Bojo' is a real ale fan and likes his food,so he's not being spiteful in keeping these places shut,but the summer months are the most profitable to these places. When autumn arrives,many will have gone under by then!


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## Julia9054 (11 May 2020)

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86323
Interesting article looking at the emerging evidence re asthma and increased risk or not of worse outcomes with Coronavirus


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## dodgy (11 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Come July and the government says pubs etc can't open i hope they rebel and open up again



Can you explain your thinking here? You're saying that if scientific advisers advise the PM that it's not safe to open, you hope pubs ignore that and open anyway? Why?
Here at 'dodgy' towers we'll remain in lockdown until we think it's safe so will always go one step further than the minimum standard. But we're privileged, still in work and getting paid.


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## fossyant (11 May 2020)

The boss sent an email out this AM first thing saying still work from home - we are carrying on as before, with only essential staff in work (i.e. IT, buildings maintenance). Plan is late August onwards before people start to work back in the buildings, then social distancing, so I can see us at least being 50% WFH for some time and only having partially full offices.


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## Joey Shabadoo (11 May 2020)

My company is doing fine but I'm quite concerned about the future for travelling sales bods like me.


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## DCLane (11 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> The boss sent an email out this AM first thing saying still work from home - we are carrying on as before, with only essential staff in work (i.e. IT, buildings maintenance). Plan is late August onwards before people start to work back in the buildings, then social distancing, so I can see us at least being 50% WFH for some time and only having partially full offices.



My university's sent out a similar e-mail, where they're not looking to open until July at the earliest. I'm envisaging small seminars face-to-face and online/recorded lectures so students aren't together in large groups.

SWMBO's at work in the hospital though, and is going through PPE several times a day as she moves between wards.


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## Dave7 (11 May 2020)

Accy.....how can you say that when we have no clue which way this virus will go. If, god forbid, it takes a 2nd bite in June/July would you still want pubs etc to rebel ??
If BoJo gave the OK for pubs to open next week you will not see me anywhere near one.
Of course I feel sorry for pubs/restaurants etc (my son runs one) but you won't see me near one for some time yet.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> The boss sent an email out this AM first thing saying still work from home - we are carrying on as before, with only essential staff in work (i.e. IT, buildings maintenance). Plan is late August onwards before people start to work back in the buildings, then social distancing, so I can see us at least being 50% WFH for some time and only having partially full offices.



Any particular reason why late August?

Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?


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## fossyant (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Any particular reason why late August?
> 
> Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?



Same as DCLane's response (Uni) - we are nearly all working from home. They say the buildings are going to take 6 weeks to ensure they are safe - i.e. stuff like legionaries in the Aircon or water systems. Next is the issue with social distancing. Modern offices, and most desks have around 4 people within 2 metres, so there is that to consider. We are thinking that students will be remotely taught in the first Team, at least.

PS The Uni is picking up the full PAY, there is no furlough, but what happens with other businesses where they can't safely return staff. It's a mess.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> Same as DCLane's response (Uni) - we are nearly all working from home. They say the buildings are going to take 6 weeks to ensure they are safe - i.e. stuff like legionaries in the Aircon or water systems. Next is the issue with social distancing. Modern offices, and most desks have around 4 people within 2 metres, so there is that to consider. We are thinking that students will be remotely taught in the first Team, at least.
> 
> PS The Uni is picking up the full PAY, there is no furlough, *but what happens with other businesses where they can't safely return staff.* It's a mess.



Glad the Uni is picking up 100% for you.

Highlighted bit: I guess the fine detail will emerge in due course - yesterday's announcement was only a broad brush stroke paving the way to a controlled return to normality; or at least the best that can be achieved effective pre-vaccine etc.


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## marinyork (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Any particular reason why late August?
> 
> Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?



It may be mixed away from academia and higher management.

I know someone who works for a university on a casual contract, their work is not essential in the slightest (I've given them health and safety and whistleblowing advice) and been forced to work through most of this redeployed and details have become more apparent the last couple of weeks. Changes have been made to stagger rotas so the office is a third full, but little else. In their exact personal circumstances and work conditions (in their late 20s, live on their own) I would be just about happy to go to work as a concept, provided they'd been a bit more generous with the staff and said 4 x longer shifts instead of 5 shorter shifts (they've overhauled the rota anyway) which has been done in other sectors that aren't essential with the 'dogsbody' jobs and the issue of travel was addressed. It's the travel that's the biggest risk. The employers are just doing it because they are expendable and can get away with it. If any other groups are similarly brought back it'll change the risk upwards by quite a lot.

In the next couple of months I think this sort of issue will crop up all over the place, including in unis where a lot of staff are casual or on not so good contracts.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

marinyork said:


> It may be mixed away from academia and higher management.
> 
> I know someone who works for a university on a casual contract, their work is not essential in the slightest (I've given them health and safety and whistleblowing advice) and been forced to work through most of this redeployed and details have become more apparent the last couple of weeks. Changes have been made to stagger rotas so the office is a third full, but little else. In their exact personal circumstances and work conditions (in their late 20s, live on their own) I would be just about happy to go to work as a concept, provided they'd been a bit more generous with the staff and said 4 x longer shifts instead of 5 shorter shifts (they've overhauled the rota anyway) which has been done in other sectors that aren't essential with the 'dogsbody' jobs and the issue of travel was addressed. It's the travel that's the biggest risk. The employers are just doing it because they are expendable and can get away with it. If any other groups are similarly brought back it'll change the risk upwards by quite a lot.
> 
> In the next couple of months I think this sort of issue will crop up all over the place, including in unis where a lot of staff are casual or on not so good contracts.



Any solutions will be patchy as people slowly return to work and will depend on the quality of the employer. I'm wondering if legislation will be put in place vis-a-vis minimum standards etc.

I know of three people who have their own business with furloughed staff who have reorganised the workspace, have PPE in place (albeit it not much at present) and they have done it in conjunction with their staff (or representatives thereof).

Maybe overwhelming public pressure will ensure that employers act responsibly.

The public transport issue is a conundrum for sure.


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## fossyant (11 May 2020)

Many of our staff use public transport, so they won't be able to get in (and travel some distance) - there is very little parking available being city centre based, and I only have parking due to my back injury. We've actively encouraged public transport, cycling and walking, so it's going to be near on impossible, or even safe, for those staff to use public transport come end of summer. Sitting on a crowded train for over an hour in the current situation.


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## marinyork (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Any solutions will be patchy as people slowly return to work and will depend on the quality of the employer. I'm wondering if legislation will be put in place vis-a-vis minimum standards etc.
> 
> I know of three people who have their own business with furloughed staff who have reorganised the workspace, have PPE in place (albeit it not much at present) and they have done it in conjunction with their staff (or representatives thereof).
> 
> ...



I don't think legislation will be put in place, unless it's the 1m stuff speculated a week or so ago and perhaps not really discussed elsewhere 'screens' which has caught on big time. H&S is done by consent and disinterest but normally doesn't function very well. H&S in most companies is dealt with by Homer Simpson. Risk assessments are normally hidden. When they are done it's usually 'because we say so' and there's no references to any robust outside studies. These things are very big cultural changes to suddenly enact. Most workplaces are heavily non-unionised and do not have anyone interested in H&S certainly initially they'll be a lot of variations between those that do and don't.

Legislation absolutely needs putting in place with a sunset clause. There needs to be primary legislation to stop people discriminating on virus status and antibody status as per speculations of SPI-B. 

I know of other people who have their own businesses and making plans to go back (not yet - late summer). Their plans as fleshed out with various random conversations with people from society and are a lot more robust, particularly given the resources of those organisations. 

I've got some contingency plans for volunteering (which bizarrely enough was regarded as essential which I later found out in detailed government advice). Unfortunately no access whatsoever to any PPE of any sort so that one's difficult.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

marinyork said:


> I don't think legislation will be put in place, unless it's the 1m stuff speculated a week or so ago and perhaps not really discussed elsewhere 'screens' which has caught on big time. H&S is done by consent and disinterest but normally doesn't function very well. H&S in most companies is dealt with by Homer Simpson. Risk assessments are normally hidden. When they are done it's usually 'because we say so' and there's no references to any robust outside studies. These things are very big cultural changes to suddenly enact. Most workplaces are heavily non-unionised and do not have anyone interested in H&S certainly initially they'll be a lot of variations between those that do and don't.
> 
> Legislation absolutely needs putting in place with a sunset clause. There needs to be primary legislation to stop people discriminating on virus status and antibody status as per speculations of SPI-B.
> 
> ...



That's good to hear.

I'm sure a lot of public bodies and businesses will be getting into gear as there will be huge pressure on them to get things right from their employees and the general public.

No doubt some will slip through the net and whilst it's very difficult to legislate against all eventualities I hope some punitive measures will be put in place for errant Directors and other business owners.


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## screenman (11 May 2020)

My Sage cover has gone up today from £18 a month to £40, is that going to be the way ahead.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

screenman said:


> My Sage cover has gone up today from £18 a month to £40, is that going to be the way ahead.



Are you able to ask them why it has gone up so much?


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## marinyork (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> That's good to hear.
> 
> I'm sure a lot of public bodies and businesses will be getting into gear as there will be huge pressure on them to get things right from their employees and the general public.
> 
> No doubt some will slip through the net and whilst it's very difficult to legislate against all eventualities I hope some punitive measures will be put in place for errant Directors and other business owners.



I forgot to say that one of the concerns I have generally is the focus on health and safety may be on rooms people work in. As a lot of people work in offices on cyclechat this one probably doesn't make much sense, but there tends to be a lot of stuff in H&S away at the fringes on this issue. The risk will normally be largest in whatever room is worked in normally, but doesn't mean elsewhere there isn't a sizeable risk. Transport as fossyant says needs including properly. PPE I would worry about a one size fits all for some companies where clearly that isn't appropriate and workers aren't daft even if they are worried. It's going to be a complex issue over about a year or so as for example some of the evidence we have on BAME risk, on obesity, on men, on shielders, on over 70s and going the over way on mild asthma may become more solid government guidance or alternatively be adopted by employers.

A lot of small employers are resourceful, I think that can be made to work. The issue is scalability for most. One of the people I know implementing stuff when they go back has a very high margin business and 1-1 so that's totally different from most of the stuff you see on the tv where, yeah, how on earth does that work? A lot of places seem to be quoting a third or quarter of capacity, so what happens there with prices and government support. I doubt someone can charge 4x the price for a meal at a restaurant, but it might be possible to have a substantial mark up from what it is now.

I think bodies will get PPE in, I think you're right there, it's some of these centralised systems that have gone wrong.


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## screenman (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Are you able to ask them why it has gone up so much?



Yes, they have changed it slightly.


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## SpokeyDokey (11 May 2020)

screenman said:


> Yes, they have changed it slightly.



But did they give a reason as to why it has doubled (more than!).


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## screenman (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> But did they give a reason as to why it has doubled (more than!).



That was the reason.


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## vickster (11 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> Many of our staff use public transport, so they won't be able to get in (and travel some distance) - there is very little parking available being city centre based, and I only have parking due to my back injury. We've actively encouraged public transport, cycling and walking, so it's going to be near on impossible, or even safe, for those staff to use public transport come end of summer. Sitting on a crowded train for over an hour in the current situation.


Can they not continue to wah, that’s the plan for my London based employer for the time being 
Or have these staff been furloughed?
We really don’t know what end of summer (3 months from now) will look like


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## lazybloke (11 May 2020)

Be interesting to see how rush hour traffic levels vary in the coming weeks, especially if/when some primary school classes resume in June. 
But what happens in September? School lessons (for all) can't go back to normal if we're still social-distancing. Commuting will be a nightmare if you're stuck on trains & buses, because you'll either have to queue for hours for one with a space, or the recommendations will be flouted and you'll be crushed in with everyone else. The latter seems more likely to me; I don't see how this country can avoid further peaks.

And of course, the intention was only ever to flatten the curve not to avoid it. 
So in that case, how many of the worst case scenario half-a-million deaths will happen anyway?


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## Accy cyclist (11 May 2020)

dodgy said:


> Can you explain your thinking here? You're saying that if scientific advisers advise the PM that it's not safe to open, *you hope pubs ignore that and open anyway? Why?*
> Here at 'dodgy' towers we'll remain in lockdown until we think it's safe so will always go one step further than the minimum standard. *But we're privileged, still in work and getting paid.*



Economic reasons mainly. The quicker they open the more of them survive...including my two local pubs. If you're still in work and getting paid you'll have a different outlook on things. There's also the lack of interaction for those living alone like me. To many,pubs and cafes are a person's only chance of human interaction that day. It's not all about 'getting pissed up' .Some (me included) go in our local nearly every night,maybe having just the one drink. Just sat at home every night is depressing!


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## Andy in Germany (11 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Any particular reason why late August?
> 
> Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?



I think that's the point isn't it? Now the UKgov can cut back on the Furlough financing, but can still dodge the blame if/when the possible second increase comes along. 

Tories gonna Tory, after all, they are supposed to be the party of liberalism and small government: they're only doing what it says on the tin.


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## Andy in Germany (11 May 2020)

Dave7 said:


> @Andy in Germany .
> Maybe a daft question but do you get vibes from the general public about VE day ? I imagine even they (in 1945) must have been pleased to hear that it was all over.



Fair question. As you'd expect it's not a major celebration, it's more seen as a "liberation" which frankly it was in many ways. Where my family live near Stuttgart there were white flags on all the lampposts and a few low key events. I think that was just because it was the 75th anniversary so it is a bit "special". The only uniforms I've ever seen on a remembrance day was the local fire department in dress uniform. I've never seen a military parade, come to think of it...
The focus is generally on "Yes it happened, and what Germany did was utterly, utterly wrong and we can never make that better again. Now let's get on with making sure we make a better country and that that sort of thing never happens again..."


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## Unkraut (11 May 2020)

Although some figures will need to be checked, teletext today revealed that there were no new cases of infection in Baden-Württemberg on Sunday. For most of the rest of the country the figures are generally very low, and I hope it stays that way notwithstanding the somewhat rapid dismantling of the lockdown.


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## marinyork (11 May 2020)

The papers tomorrow are getting totally carried away about restrictions and this might cause a lot of problems down the line.


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## lazybloke (12 May 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Although some figures will need to be checked, *teletext* today revealed that there were no new cases of infection in Baden-Württemberg on Sunday. For most of the rest of the country the figures are generally very low, and I hope it stays that way notwithstanding the somewhat rapid dismantling of the lockdown.


Teletext! The UK misses Ceefax!


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## Unkraut (12 May 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Teletext! The UK misses Ceefax!


Quaint isn't it! But useful, especially for a local news round up and the weather.


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## Accy cyclist (12 May 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Accy.....how can you say that when we have no clue which way this virus will go. If, god forbid, it takes a 2nd bite in June/July would you still want pubs etc to rebel ??
> If BoJo gave the OK for pubs to open next week you will not see me anywhere near one.
> Of course I feel sorry for pubs/restaurants etc (my son runs one) but you won't see me near one for some time yet.


But he wouldn't give the go ahead for pubs to open next week. I was thinking more like 6,7 maybe 8 weeks away in mid July. Read this,it says half our pubs could be lost if they don't open up this summer. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....d-help-great-british-insitution-lost-forever/
so lets see,if that happens we'll have stay at home society that orders take-aways online,pays for them by card as cash is now deemed unhygienic and then sits on it's fat arse to watch 'Netflix' and such crap! How many people lately have asked 'don't you have Netflix'? and when i say no,i don't watch tv apart from for the odd thing,they look at me like i'm disadvantaged or summat. Talking to a bloke i know yesterday,i said to him that Wetherspoons are going to ignore any 'keep pubs shut' orders that extend beyond July. He had a rant saying all pubs should be closed forever as far as he's concerned! He used to go out nearly every night,but gave it up years ago. He's now a tv/take-away zombie who prefers to save his money spent in pubs on about 4 holidays a year to the Algarve,which is fair enough. I Ieft him with a parting shot. 'I hope many airlines go under and 'foreign holidays' become so expensive and involve so much hassle getting there and back that they die out, like you want to see happen to pubs'! I don't really think like that,but he had this 'I don't use something now so i don't give a toss if it disappears'attitude. I don't use libraries,restaurants,take-aways,slot machine arcades etc etc,but i wouldn't like to see them go under just because i don't use them. His parting shot at me was 'Ah well whatever'. I'm going home now to order some food online then settle down to a night of telly'!!


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## alicat (12 May 2020)

Just found out that a very good family friend as i was growing up, who encouraged my love of cycling and who died late last week, did die of Covid-19. It was a blessing in some ways because he was in a nursing home and had no quality of life. However, the cause of his dying right now is he was not adequately shielded and for that I am angry with the government.


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## Joey Shabadoo (12 May 2020)

My father’s friend from school contracted the virus. He committed suicide last night because he didn’t want the awful death this virus brings.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 May 2020)

Slight sore throat hopefully nothing more serious than that.


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## steve292 (13 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> My father’s friend from school contracted the virus. He committed suicide last night because he didn’t want the awful death this virus brings.


That's awful.


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## derrick (13 May 2020)

alicat said:


> Just found out that a very good family friend as i was growing up, who encouraged my love of cycling and who died late last week, did die of Covid-19. It was a blessing in some ways because he was in a nursing home and had no quality of life. However, the cause of his dying right now is he was not adequately shielded and for that I am angry with the government.


Was it a privately run or goverment run nursing home?


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## pawl (13 May 2020)

Good news.Estate agent’s are now open I can go and view houses.I can’t have family members to sit in the garden at social distancing.One rule for one .One rule for others 

Mrs P and myself have stuck to the rules Feeling rebellious now Think I will get in the car and visit a local tourist spot.

Confused old wrinkly cyclist.😇😇😇


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## alicat (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> Was it a privately run or goverment run nursing home?



Private. If the right PPE had been in place, there is no way that Ted could have caught it.


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## derrick (13 May 2020)

alicat said:


> Private. If the right PPE had been in place, there is no way that Ted could have caught it.


But why are you blaming goverment? Surely that's down to the owners of the nursing home.


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## alicat (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> But why are you blaming goverment? Surely that's down to the owners of the nursing home.



I'll leave that question for someone with less skin in the game to answer right now.


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## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> But why are you blaming goverment? Surely that's down to the owners of the nursing home.


I'm no expert at this but I would have thought it is much more difficult for private care homes to get hold of reasonably priced PPE that meets approved standards, without being ripped off by sharks, than it is for state/local authority run homes. That is not the fault of individual care home owners, nor is it their fault that the NHS has been dumping Covid infected people back into the care homes, in many cases without warning the homes of the infection.
The whole issue of care home Covid related deaths is a stain on our so-called caring government.


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## Joey Shabadoo (13 May 2020)

The local authority care home in Glasgow that my step-son works at is still allowing visitors. Never stopped.


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## derrick (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I'm no expert at this but I would have thought it is much more difficult for private care homes to get hold of reasonably priced PPE that meets approved standards, without being ripped off by sharks, than it is for state/local authority run homes. That is not the fault of individual care home owners, nor is it their fault that the NHS has been dumping Covid infected people back into the care homes, in many cases without warning the homes of the infection.
> The whole issue of care home Covid related deaths is a stain on our so-called caring government.


But surely the private homes, should have this stuff in stock, or don't they worry about the health of the people they are caring for,


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## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> But surely the private homes, should have this stuff in stock, or don't they worry about the health of the people they are caring for,



As a commercial venture how much stock should they, or can they afford to, keep?

Do state run care homes keep massive stock levels?

Stock costs money and your expert opinion on suitable stock levels in the care industry in case of a pandemic would be useful.


----------



## matticus (13 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> But he wouldn't give the go ahead for pubs to open next week. I was thinking more like 6,7 maybe 8 weeks away in mid July. Read this,it says half our pubs could be lost if they don't open up this summer. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....d-help-great-british-insitution-lost-forever/
> so lets see,if that happens we'll have stay at home society that orders take-aways online,pays for them by card as cash is now deemed unhygienic and then sits on it's fat arse to watch 'Netflix' and such crap! How many people lately have asked 'don't you have Netflix'? and when i say no,i don't watch tv apart from for the odd thing,they look at me like i'm disadvantaged or summat. Talking to a bloke i know yesterday,i said to him that Wetherspoons are going to ignore any 'keep pubs shut' orders that extend beyond July. He had a rant saying all pubs should be closed forever as far as he's concerned! He used to go out nearly every night,but gave it up years ago. He's now a tv/take-away zombie who prefers to save his money spent in pubs on about 4 holidays a year to the Algarve,which is fair enough. I Ieft him with a parting shot. 'I hope many airlines go under and 'foreign holidays' become so expensive and involve so much hassle getting there and back that they die out, like you want to see happen to pubs'! I don't really think like that,but he had this 'I don't use something now so i don't give a toss if it disappears'attitude. I don't use libraries,restaurants,take-aways,slot machine arcades etc etc,but i wouldn't like to see them go under just because i don't use them. His parting shot at me was 'Ah well whatever'. I'm going home now to order some food online then settle down to a night of telly'!!


That is quite an interesting post. Not sure I agree with it all, but it is food for thought.


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## Smokin Joe (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> But surely the private homes, should have this stuff in stock, or don't they worry about the health of the people they are caring for,


Many care homes have no deaths at all, which suggests that those who do are doing something wrong as regards distancing and hygiene.


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## derrick (13 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Many care homes have no deaths at all, which suggests that those who do are doing something wrong as regards distancing and hygiene.


Yes i am a bit unclear about all this.


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## derrick (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> As a commercial venture how much stock should they, or can they afford to, keep?
> 
> Do state run care homes keep massive stock levels?
> 
> Stock costs money and your expert opinion on suitable stock levels in the care industry in case of a pandemic would be useful.


I would have thought basic mask and goggles would be in stock.


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## Rocky (13 May 2020)

I’m not an expert but common sense tells me three things reduce the numbers of infections in care homes. First, the availability of PPE. This is something that needs to be readily available and regularly supplied. Second, there needs to be robust testing and isolating of staff and residents to determine who is infectious and who isn’t. Third, there needed to be a timely lockdown process to prevent visitors from introducing Covid to care homes.

The government’s poor decision making and operationalising of all three means it’s complicit in the spread of Covid amongst many homes. The care home sector was already under the cosh because of local authority cuts (due to central government funding squeezes). Many homes simply had no spare funds to stock up on PPE, even if it were available. Testing until recently was non existent and even now is patchy. Results are taking 5+ days to come back. Some homes and residents have been lucky, just as some people have avoided the infection, but that isn’t anything to do with the government.


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## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> I would have thought basic mask and goggles would be in stock.



How man weeks worth of basic masks and goggles should be in stock? Were basic masks and goggles standard issue in care homes before this pandemic? I've visited loads of relatives in care homes and did some work in about ten in the 90s and cannot recall staff wearing such stuff under normal conditions. What is the average stockholding of such stuff in private and state care homes, or hospitals?

Nobody got this right, not even the NHS with their highly paid and trained supplies experts, except those who knew it all along in hindsight.


----------



## derrick (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> How man weeks worth of basic masks and goggles should be in stock? Were basic masks and goggles standard issue in care homes before this pandemic? I've visited loads of relatives in care homes and did some work in about ten in the 90s and cannot recall staff wearing such stuff under normal conditions. What is the average stockholding of such stuff in private and state care homes, or hospitals?
> 
> Nobody got this right, not even the NHS with their highly paid and trained supplies experts, except those who knew it all along in hindsight.


So its not anyones fault then?


----------



## Rocky (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> So its not anyones fault then?


....but that's about PPE. The testing debacle and the delayed lockdown is down to the Government.


----------



## Andy in Germany (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> But why are you blaming goverment? Surely that's down to the owners of the nursing home.



Partly because the UKgov advice until March was that outbreaks in care homes were "very unlikely" so why would they start issuing PPS?


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Many care homes have no deaths at all, which suggests that those who do are doing something wrong as regards distancing and hygiene.



Or have just been more unlucky, or are in a less affected area.

Care homes vary enormously in their size, facilities and quality. In some, usually the cheaper ones, the rooms are small, often with shared bathrooms, and crowded common areas, while others, which are either local authority run or expensive private ones, have large en-suite rooms and several large common areas. In the former it is almost impossible to keep to social-distancing rules without imprisoning the inmates residents in their rooms 24/7, while the latter have less problems with social-distancing.

There will also be difference between basic care homes and those that provide nursing facilities.


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> So its not anyones fault then?



Yes, that man over there.

Do things always have to be any *one's* fault.

There will be different contributions to fault from the government, to owners, to local authorities, the CQC. My own feeling is that we and the government are mainly at fault for being more concerned at running these places at minimal cost rather than funding them properly. For too many people it is a case of out of sight, out of mind for the sick and the elderly, but then get outraged when things go wrong.


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Partly because the UKgov advice until March was that outbreaks in care homes were "very unlikely" so why would they start issuing PPS?



Starmer pointed this out to Johnson today at PMQs but he just lied and denied that it had been said.


----------



## C R (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Starmer pointed this out to Johnson today at PMQs but he just lied and denied that it had been said.



That's unpossible, Johnson is well known for his adherence to the truth.


----------



## Inertia (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Starmer pointed this out to Johnson today at PMQs but he just lied and denied that it had been said.


I think a reference to that question was what Andy was quoting.

Starmer has written to the PM to ask him to correct the record.

This is what we need, dont let people get away with lying

View: https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1260539776073170944


----------



## Mugshot (13 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Many care homes have no deaths at all, which suggests that those who do are doing something wrong as regards distancing and hygiene.


Far more luck than judgement. 
The NHS has emptied itself into the community and continues to do so. Care homes are under pressure to take people in if they have beds available, they are not meant to refuse. The home my wife works in had to take someone in direct from hospital that had been tested but was waiting for a result, they were told to isolate her. It is a dementia care home and, obviously, they are not allowed to barricade people in their rooms, they tried to stop her by using a child gate, the 80+ year old woman climbed over it and proceeded to wander around the entire home. Fotunately her test came back negative.
The information I have been hearing is that most homes in Pembs have cases of Corona.


----------



## lazybloke (13 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> How man weeks worth of basic masks and goggles should be in stock? Were basic masks and goggles standard issue in care homes before this pandemic? I've visited loads of relatives in care homes and did some work in about ten in the 90s and cannot recall staff wearing such stuff under normal conditions. What is the average stockholding of such stuff in private and state care homes, or hospitals?
> 
> *Nobody got this right, not even the NHS with their highly paid and trained supplies experts, except those who knew it all along in hindsight.*


There are only a limited number of hospital beds in this country, and we have enough knowledge of transmissible diseases to be able to estimate worst-case PPE requirements for a pandemic.

And there have been regular pandemic preparedness reports, such as this NHS document from 2017 (admitedly for flu).

Your quip about hindsight is irrelevant. PPE stockpile requirements had been anticipated years in advance, but preparations were insufficient.
You can make disintenguous quips about it, but a more constructive approach is to identify why preparations were insufficient, and address any mistakes ASAP.


PS A couple of Extracts from the report:
_
[A number of stockpiles exist ] in locations around the country for deployment when needed. These will be avilable to health and social care staff.

[The stockpile] includes surgical facemasks, FFP3 respirators, gloves and aprons, plus hygiene consumables._


----------



## C R (13 May 2020)

Inertia said:


> I think a reference to that question was what Andy was quoting.
> 
> Starmer has written to the PM to ask him to correct the record.
> 
> ...



And Johnson has doubled down and won't correct the record. He will get a free ride on this because only the guardian will run with it and the story will be smothered.


----------



## derrick (13 May 2020)

Do things always have to be any *one's* fault.

There will be different contributions to fault from the government, to owners, to local authorities, the CQC. My own feeling is that we and the government are mainly at fault for being more concerned at running these places at minimal cost rather than funding them properly. For too many people it is a case of out of sight, out of mind for the sick and the elderly, but then get outraged when things go wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Getting back to my original question to @alicat , Why is she blaming the government, i ain't putting the blame on anyone.


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 May 2020)

lazybloke said:


> There are only a limited number of hospital beds in this country, and we have enough knowledge of transmissible diseases to be able to estimate worst-case PPE requirements for a pandemic.
> 
> And there have been regular pandemic preparedness reports, such as this NHS document from 2017 (admitedly for flu).
> 
> ...


I take the point you make, but was asking specific questions about what stock levels should be kept, in response to someone making a critical point on private care home stock levels.

I stand by my comments on hindsight while accepting your point about needing to understand why there were shortages. I found the point you highlighted about stockpiles around the country interesting but that seems to imply the stocks are held centrally and not held by the individual care homes, and gives no detail as to how it is to be distributed between care homes and NHS.

Of course lessons need to be learned, but based on facts


----------



## Fab Foodie (13 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> My company is doing fine but I'm quite concerned about the future for travelling sales bods like me.


....and travelling Food Technologists....


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 May 2020)

Sore throat gone away. All good here.


----------



## alicat (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> Getting back to my original question to @alicat , Why is she blaming the government, i ain't putting the blame on anyone.





alicat said:


> I'll leave that question for someone with less skin in the game to answer right now.



@derrick, I was shocked when I read your question asking why I was blaming government and even more shocked when you asked it again after I pointed out that it was too sensitive a topic. When I posted about the loss of a connection to my childhood and love of cycling, I was looking for support and empathy and understanding not questions as to the reasons for my feelings. I never mentioned blame. There's a subtle difference btween that and anger. I don't have to answer your question especially since you seem to be a dog with a bone at the moment and I have no confidence that you will accept any answer that I give you. @Rusty Nails and @Brompton Bruce were able to guess at my views and I thank them for that. 

If you want a conversation adult to adult then pm me and I will give you my phone number. Otherwise, just let it drop.


----------



## derrick (13 May 2020)

alicat said:


> @derrick, I was shocked when I read your question asking why I was blaming government and even more shocked when you asked it again after I pointed out that it was too sensitive a topic. When I posted about the loss of a connection to my childhood and love of cycling, I was looking for support and empathy and understanding not questions as to the reasons for my feelings. I never mentioned blame. There's a subtle difference btween that and anger. I don't have to answer your question especially since you seem to be a dog with a bone at the moment and I have no confidence that you will accept any answer that I give you. @Rusty Nails and @Brompton Bruce were able to guess at my views and I thank them for that.
> 
> If you want a conversation adult to adult then pm me and I will give you my phone number. Otherwise, just let it drop.


I was going to let it drop, but @Rusty Nails butted in and i answered him,


----------



## derrick (13 May 2020)

derrick said:


> I was going to let it drop, but @Rusty Nails butted in and i answered him,


Sorry did not mean to upset you.


----------



## alicat (13 May 2020)

@derrick, thank you for the second reply. I don't interpret anyone as having butted in when I had expressly invited others to give their views. Let's leave it there and get a good night's sleep.


----------



## winjim (13 May 2020)

On Thursday my grandmother died. In a care home. She had COVID-19.

fark this country.


----------



## Levo-Lon (14 May 2020)

Lady at work kitchen ,had a test today, her friend who she spoke too recently is positive.
Care worker.
So we shall know Saturday whether or not we're all going to need a test.


Our organisation has spent 3 million so far on ppe alone for covid-19
This doesn't include huge expense for food storage ,freezers and all other stuff like coshh


----------



## marinyork (15 May 2020)

Things seem back to normal to me. 

Had to go and collect a prescription. None of the pharmacy staff in any PPE, nor was anyone else. I followed the government's guidelines of face coverings inside and getting very funny looks off other patients and staff as if it was early March or late Feb!


----------



## C R (15 May 2020)

Stupid headlines in the Mirror and the Mail.

A recent study from the ONS suggests less than one per cent of the population have had covid-19, I can't see where the 19 million figure in the Mirror comes from.

The headline in the Mail about allowing teachers to be heroes really boils my pi$$, it is very easy to volunteer someone else to be a martyr.

ETA, ONS figures refer to something else, see post below*. Point still stands.


----------



## DaveReading (15 May 2020)

C R said:


> recent study from the ONS suggests less than one per cent of the population have had covid-19, I can't see where the 19 million figure in the Mirror comes from.



Reportedly one in 400, i.e. 0.25%


----------



## Low Gear Guy (15 May 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Reportedly one in 400, i.e. 0.25%


My back of the envelope calculation makes that a 20% fatality rate from those injected.
Is that credible?


----------



## marinyork (15 May 2020)

C R said:


> Stupid headlines in the Mirror and the Mail.
> 
> A recent study from the ONS suggests less than one per cent of the population have had covid-19, I can't see where the 19 million figure in the Mirror comes from.
> 
> The headline in the Mail about allowing teachers to be heroes really boils my pi$$, it is very easy to volunteer someone else to be a martyr.



I can't make heads nor tails of the 19M. It's based on some study and perhaps a maximum bound. 19M would be way higher than new york city scaled up to the whole of the UK!

Recent studies have generally come out with lower numbers. The ONS study initially had wide bounds but came out towards the lower end in the final results.


----------



## matticus (15 May 2020)

From yesterday's Guardian:
[my bold]

"A new study from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggested that one in 400 people had the virus outside hospitals and care homes *over the past two weeks*, described by Prof Jonathan Van-Tam, the deputy chief medical officer for England, as “very low” circulation in the community."

So if I've understood correctly, that is (roughly) the number who are infectious in the community. So if i snog 400 random people in the street, I have a high chance of receiving a good dose. Just 50 and I will probably be OK


----------



## C R (15 May 2020)

matticus said:


> From yesterday's Guardian:
> [my bold]
> 
> "A new study from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggested that one in 400 people had the virus outside hospitals and care homes *over the past two weeks*, described by Prof Jonathan Van-Tam, the deputy chief medical officer for England, as “very low” circulation in the community."
> ...


Yes, that's right, I misused the figure in my post above, the ONS figures are for active cases, rather than people who have had covid-19 already. Based on other studies I have seen, though, figures in various places around the world vary between 1 and 5 percent of the population having had covid-19, based on antibody testing. I don't think that kind of study has been done in the UK yet, so still not clear where the 19 million comes from.


----------



## Smokin Joe (15 May 2020)

C R said:


> Yes, that's right, I misused the figure in my post above, the ONS figures are for active cases, rather than people who have had covid-19 already. Based on other studies I have seen, though, figures vary between 1 and 5 percent of the population having had covid-19 in various places, based on antibody testing. I don't think that kind of study has been done in the UK yet, *so still not clear where the 19 million comes from.*


From the headline writer.

Lurid headlines sell newspapers, "Nothing much happening" doesn't.


----------



## C R (15 May 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> From the headline writer.
> 
> Lurid headlines sell newspapers, "Nothing much happening" doesn't.


The problem is that this particular headline feeds into the false sense of security being encouraged by the government, and will make a second big spike more likely. It is irresponsible to say the least.


----------



## Moon bunny (16 May 2020)

Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.


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## The Crofted Crest (16 May 2020)

Very sad news, Moon bunny.


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## lane (16 May 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Reportedly one in 400, i.e. 0.25%


 That was figure who currently have not ever had it. Figure who ever had it is probably between 5 and 10 percent. No way of knowing until the antibody test is ready and even then there will be questions.


----------



## lane (16 May 2020)

matticus said:


> From yesterday's Guardian:
> [my bold]
> 
> "A new study from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggested that one in 400 people had the virus outside hospitals and care homes *over the past two weeks*, described by Prof Jonathan Van-Tam, the deputy chief medical officer for England, as “very low” circulation in the community."
> ...


Even with 50 it might well be a police matter.


----------



## lane (16 May 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> My back of the envelope calculation makes that a 20% fatality rate from those injected.
> Is that credible?


No that is why the rate is probably between 5 and 10% infected. Studies in other countries have shown up to 14% but that was in hot spots and or big questions over methodology.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 May 2020)

winjim said:


> On Thursday my grandmother died. In a care home. She had COVID-19.
> 
> fark this country.





Moon bunny said:


> Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.



For what it's worth, I'm thinking of you both.


----------



## Slick (16 May 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.


That's the worst, really sorry to hear that.


----------



## alicat (16 May 2020)

I am so sorry to hear your sad news @Moon bunny especially because you couldn't see your dad before he died. 

And another hug for you @winjim and anyone who needs it.


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 May 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.


So sorry for both you and winjim.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (16 May 2020)

winjim said:


> On Thursday my grandmother died. In a care home. She had COVID-19.
> 
> fark this country.





Moon bunny said:


> Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.


I really don't know what to say other than to offer my condolences to both of you.


----------



## winjim (16 May 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> For what it's worth, I'm thinking of you both.





alicat said:


> I am so sorry to hear your sad news @Moon bunny especially because you couldn't see your dad before he died.
> 
> And another hug for you @winjim and anyone who needs it.





Smokin Joe said:


> So sorry for both you and winjim.





Rickshaw Phil said:


> I really don't know what to say other than to offer my condolences to both of you.


Thanks guys, and thanks to everybody who's expressed sympathy via the emoji interface. As I wrote in the VE day thread, she was 98 years of age and passed peacefully in her sleep. We'd said our goodbyes, albeit via Zoom, and my cousin, a paramedic, was by her side. It was as good a death as any of us could reasonably hope for.

We didn't know or suspect that she had Covid, she had none of the fever or respiratory symptoms. We knew that lockdown had affected her, she was shut in her room all day with no social interaction and seemed basically to just give up. She seemed more confused than usual and it was only later that we learned that often Covid can present in the elderly as acute confusion.

So I'm not sad for her death really. She may under ideal circumstances have had another few years left in her, but she was very old and frail so her time had come. But I'm upset and angry. Really angry. I was angry two months ago and I've expressed that anger before on this forum and been censured for it, but how am I supposed to feel now? At the very time that we found out, from the autopsy, that my grandmother had contracted Covid-19 whilst in her care home and that it was to be recorded as a cause of death, our Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, was standing in the house of commons telling brazen lies about government advice that had been given back in March relating to this exact situation. Brazen lies. How is that supposed to make me feel? And now we've got Matt Hancock telling lies about the protection of care homes. My grandmother, along with tens of thousands of other people, is dead, and the people who are supposed to be responsible for protecting her and them have let them down, and are now just lying and lying and lying about it. They were liars before and they are liars now.

fark this country.


----------



## Moon bunny (16 May 2020)

Thank you all for the kind thoughts. I cannot get angry, he had a good life on the whole, but perhaps he could have looked after his health better. Now I am sat on a local hillside with Hover and the twins, having “pop” and crisps in his memory.


----------



## fossyant (16 May 2020)

The virus was running about long before we knew.


----------



## Fab Foodie (16 May 2020)

winjim said:


> On Thursday my grandmother died. In a care home. She had COVID-19.
> 
> fark this country.


Sorry to hear that :-(


----------



## Fab Foodie (16 May 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> Father has died, we were expecting it. Just sorry I could not see him in the last few weeks.


Dreadful shame. Best wishes and hugs.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (17 May 2020)

This virus terrifies me. I lost my sister to cancer 6 months ago, both my parents are in their 70s, my father with COPD and my wife has such bad emphysema and respiratory issues that we both know she won’t survive an encounter. My remaining sister is a frontline nursing assistant at Ninewells Hospital (they lost a mother and newborn baby to Covid on Thursday night - it’s shaken her badly).


----------



## SpokeyDokey (17 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> This virus terrifies me. I lost my sister to cancer 6 months ago, both my parents are in their 70s, my father with COPD and my wife has such bad emphysema and respiratory issues that we both know she won’t survive an encounter. My remaining sister is a frontline nursing assistant at Ninewells Hospital (they lost a mother and newborn baby to Covid on Thursday night - it’s shaken her badly).



Unbelievably my B-I-L, who has emphysema, and my S-I-L, who has diabetes (both fat/unfit heavy smokers) staged an illegal party at their home with their daughters and attendant grand children a couple of weeks ago. Lovely Wife was aghast that her sister & her husband could be so stupid as they are usually rational thinkers.


----------



## Dave7 (18 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Unbelievably my B-I-L, who has emphysema, and my S-I-L, who has diabetes (both fat/unfit heavy smokers) staged an illegal party at their home with their daughters and attendant grand children a couple of weeks ago. Lovely Wife was aghast that her sister & her husband could be so stupid as they are usually rational thinkers.


Staggering isn't it.
Our neighbour had approx 20 in his garden one day last week. Not sitting apart but playing football with the kids.
I don't care if they want to catch the virus but its who else and how many they will pass it to


----------



## winjim (18 May 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Staggering isn't it.
> Our neighbour had approx 20 in his garden one day last week. Not sitting apart but playing football with the kids.
> I don't care if they want to catch the virus but its who else and how many they will pass it to


I've seen people online with the attitude that the NHS wasn't overwhelmed and we have plenty of ventilators so it's all fine. Even leaving aside what that says about their attitude to the more vulnerable members of our society, do they really want to be put on a ventilator? Do they know what that entails? I'm glad we have them and if I get put on one as a last resort I'll be grateful, but I really really hope it doesn't come to that, it looks like an awful experience.


----------



## DCLane (18 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I've seen people online with the attitude that the NHS wasn't overwhelmed and we have plenty of ventilators so it's all fine. Even leaving aside what that says about their attitude to the more vulnerable members of our society, do they really want to be put on a ventilator? Do they know what that entails? I'm glad we have them and if I get put on one as a last resort I'll be grateful, but I really really hope it doesn't come to that, it looks like an awful experience.



It's not just the getting ill but the recovery. SWMBO is part of a rehab unit where patients who are coming off ventilators and need months - not weeks, but months - of rehabilitation are coming in. They're still being tube fed but are just off the ventilator. Muscle loss, other medical complications, potentially still infectious. Her role as a Dietitian is to help get them off the tube feed when ready and onto normal food.


----------



## C R (18 May 2020)

DCLane said:


> It's not just the getting ill but the recovery. SWMBO is part of a rehab unit where patients who are coming off ventilators and need months - not weeks, but months - of rehabilitation are coming in. They're still being tube fed but are just off the ventilator. Muscle loss, other medical complications, potentially still infectious. Her role as a Dietitian is to help get them off the tube feed when ready and onto normal food.


A lot of people seem quite blasé about getting covid because they expect they would only have mild symptoms. The problem is that if it hits you hard, the long term consequences if you survive seem to be quite serious. It is a lottery I definitely don't want to play.


----------



## winjim (18 May 2020)

C R said:


> A lot of people seem quite blasé about getting covid because they expect they would only have mild symptoms. The problem is that if it hits you hard, the long term consequences if you survive seem to be quite serious. It is a lottery I definitely don't want to play.


It's the same with the attitude towards kids, thinking that they don't get it or are only mildly affected. Even leaving aside the fact that they can still spread it, which was the whole 'flattening the curve' idea, and even leaving aside the fact that some of them do develop acute respiratory symptoms, and even leaving aside the fact that we are now seeing this secondary Kawasaki like syndrome, who's to say what will happen to infected children long or even medium term? Even six months is unknown.

And that's with an awful lot of things left aside.


----------



## C R (18 May 2020)

winjim said:


> It's the same with the attitude towards kids, thinking that they don't get it or are only mildly affected. Even leaving aside the fact that they can still spread it, which was the whole 'flattening the curve' idea, and even leaving aside the fact that some of them do develop acute respiratory symptoms, and even leaving aside the fact that we are now seeing this secondary Kawasaki like syndrome, who's to say what will happen to infected children long or even medium term? Even six months is unknown.
> 
> And that's with an awful lot of things left aside.


We are going through all that now. Our local primary aren't doing particularly well at social distancing with the small number of children attending, so we dread to think how it is going to be come June 1st.

Daughter 2 is in Y6, so she would be supposed to go in. We have raised some points politely about social distance and risk of transmission, but the school just answer with the standard kids don't get it/don't pass it. I am type 1 diabetic, so we are keen to keep additional routes of contact to a minimum, and the prospect of our daughter going by to school in these conditions fills us with dread.


----------



## fossyant (18 May 2020)

Even though my two kids are no-longer schools age, there is no point sending them now. At the best of times, kids are mucky germ spreaders, and whilst most won't get symptoms of CV19 they could pass it round, bring it to your home, and even teachers. Bringing it home could also add additional risks for any elderly relatives you may be dropping food off for, or even that occasional 2m stroll in the park. Leave them off until September and we know more about the infection.


----------



## tom73 (18 May 2020)

The attitude of what look's to be a growing number people to this virus is just staggering. 
Being ventilated is no joke and the rehab after can last for some time. The about of muscle loss is bad enough which having had it is such a long road and takes so much out of you even going little things. The longer your on a vent the worse it get's. Renal failure is common which can leave you with long term ill effects or worse and you find yourself on the transplant list. 
Then that's if the covid don't get you 1st people really don't understand dying of acute respiratory failure is horrific , not quick , not pain free. 
Do they really want to literally drown and know they can't do a thing about it?


----------



## winjim (18 May 2020)

C R said:


> We are going through all that now. Our local primary aren't doing particularly well at social distancing with the small number of children attending, so we dread to think how it is going to be come June 1st.
> 
> Daughter 2 is in Y6, so she would be supposed to go in. We have raised some points politely about social distance and risk of transmission, but the school just answer with the standard kids don't get it/don't pass it. I am type 1 diabetic, so we are keen to keep additional routes of contact to a minimum, and the prospect of our daughter going by to school in these conditions fills us with dread.


I don't know what your school is like but ours have said that parents won't be sanctioned if they choose not to send their kids back. It does mean other difficulties with childcare but I think ultimately it's your choice. Our daughter's in reception year and we really don't want to send her back, but we're worried for her social development if all her friends go back and she's left behind. If the childminder who's looking after her now goes back to taking her usual kids then we may have no choice.

I guess the year 6s are going back to get them ready for transition to senior school next year?

Anyway, with all the dickheads out this weekend I expect R>>1 and infection/death rates to skyrocket over the next fortnight so they may have to change the plans for schools. If this government are willing to admit that they've got it wrong which I sincerely doubt.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (18 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I don't know what your school is like but ours have said that parents won't be sanctioned if they choose not to send their kids back. It does mean other difficulties with childcare but I think ultimately it's your choice. Our daughter's in reception year and we really don't want to send her back, but we're worried for her social development if all her friends go back and she's left behind. If the childminder who's looking after her now goes back to taking her usual kids then we may have no choice.
> 
> I guess the year 6s are going back to get them ready for transition to senior school next year?
> 
> Anyway, with all the dickheads out this weekend I expect R>>1 and infection/death rates to skyrocket over the next fortnight so they may have to change the plans for schools. If this government are willing to admit that they've got it wrong which I sincerely doubt.



I've liked your post but re the last sentence; I don't think it is a case of will the Gov' admit that they are wrong as they have been clear that all future reopening actions are conditional on the R being under 1. If the decision is reversed at the due time due to the risk being above that considered acceptable by the medical/health advisors then they will have to backtrack and modify the plan. I can't see a better way to manage these fluid situations. For sure it may engender uncertainty in some quarters but that's the nature of the beast at the moment - and life in general tbh.


----------



## tom73 (18 May 2020)

No-one will be fined government guidelines make that clear. 
School's will need a total rethink as will the whole education sector. If everyone sticks to the current timeline next years exams will be difficult to get up to speed. Believing the 1st term back in September can be as normal is madness. 
What this current situation has laid bare is just how inflexible , out of date the whole education sector is. 
It's the really vunrable ones I worry about many have just fell off the radar. Some I work with we are at the only ones who care about them. That work is not happening anymore. Safe guarding has just gone out the window for many. 
How to support them and help them though this is where the planning needs to be. Many even if they want to go school can't as they are foster care many foster cares are self isolating. They will have support at home but will need much more.


----------



## C R (18 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I don't know what your school is like but ours have said that parents won't be sanctioned if they choose not to send their kids back. It does mean other difficulties with childcare but I think ultimately it's your choice. Our daughter's in reception year and we really don't want to send her back, but we're worried for her social development if all her friends go back and she's left behind. If the childminder who's looking after her now goes back to taking her usual kids then we may have no choice.
> 
> I guess the year 6s are going back to get them ready for transition to senior school next year?
> 
> Anyway, with all the dickheads out this weekend I expect R>>1 and infection/death rates to skyrocket over the next fortnight so they may have to change the plans for schools. If this government are willing to admit that they've got it wrong which I sincerely doubt.


We are erring on the side of caution, and planning to keep her at home, at least while I am working from home full time, we have the other two at home anyway. High school have cancelled the appointment induction day, so we can't see much point in going back.

You could argue that sending year sixes back with proper social distancing measures in place could be made to work, but adding reception and year 1 to the mix is madness. The school our nephew attends in Germany have only taken back the last year class on a part time basis, he only goes into school with half his class every other day. No other year groups have been called back, even though there haven't been any new cases in their city for the last week.

I fear that the increase in R and subsequent second peak will not be seen until after schools are back.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (18 May 2020)

tom73 said:


> No-one will be fined government guidelines make that clear.
> School's will need a total rethink as will the whole education sector. If everyone sticks to the current timeline next years exams will be difficult to get up to speed. Believing the 1st term back in September can be as normal is madness.
> *What this current situation has laid bare is just how inflexible , out of date the whole education sector is.*
> It's the really vunrable ones I worry about many have just fell off the radar. Some I work with we are at the only ones who care about them. That work is not happening anymore. Safe guarding has just gone out the window for many.
> How to support them and help them though this is where the planning needs to be. Many even if they want to go school can't as they are foster care many foster cares are self isolating. They will have support at home but will need much more.



Worthy of a separate thread?


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## tom73 (18 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I've liked your post but re the last sentence; I don't think it is a case of will the Gov' admit that they are wrong as they have been clear that all future reopening actions are conditional on the R being under 1. If the decision is reversed at the due time due to the risk being above that considered acceptable by the medical/health advisors then they will have to backtrack and modify the plan. I can't see a better way to manage these fluid situations. For sure it may engender uncertainty in some quarters but that's the nature of the beast at the moment - and life in general tbh.



Hidden in the talk of 1st of June is the 25th of May the date the government get's updated from SAGE on infection rates. 
So a get out of jail has been built in from the start.


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## SpokeyDokey (18 May 2020)

tom73 said:


> Hidden in the talk of 1st of June is the 25th of May the date the government get's updated from SAGE on infection rates.
> So a get out of jail has been built in from the start.



I guess one person's get out of jail is another person's perfectly rational way to failsafe a fluid situation.


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## C R (18 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I guess one person's get out of jail is another person's perfectly rational way to failsafe a fluid situation.


The problem is that due to incubation times, there isn't enough time to see any negative effects of the lockdown relaxation before that meeting takes place.


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## SpokeyDokey (18 May 2020)

C R said:


> The problem is that due to incubation times, there isn't enough time to see any negative effects of the lockdown relaxation before that meeting takes place.



Possibly. Although the schools situation is, as far as I can surmise, a separate risk modelling exercise to the lockdown restrictions lifted last week - although I can see the former as having some bearing on the schools ongoing risk modelling.

I'm no risk modelling expert so I really can't comment much on the approach to risk management being taken. Not sure if we have any risk experts on here that could help us understand better?


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## Julia9054 (18 May 2020)

I was in school on Friday. Must have said "come on, that's not 2 metres!" at least 15 times. That is with 11 - 15 year olds.
How they think any type of protective measures can be brought in with small children is beyond me. 
We have a staff meeting at 2.30 today where we will find out what our plans are for after half term.


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## winjim (18 May 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I've liked your post


Please don't.


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## tom73 (18 May 2020)

Survived the lockdown hair cut dog clippers really do come in handy. Mrs 73 did well


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## Milzy (19 May 2020)

I was just beginning to think is all this really happening still? 
My Auntie died of covid in a care home the other night. Not seen her for years but it does bring it home. It's just a sad ending for anybody's life. 
I can't stand these people on Facebook saying ohh hindsight is a wonderful thing. Several weeks heads up but blindsight. Then saying Boris is doing a wonderful job. They must be watching a different life unfold before them.


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## Illaveago (20 May 2020)

I just don't believe it !!!!
A firm has been making protective visors and may have to pay £5,000 to have them safety approved by the government !!!!


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## C R (20 May 2020)

Illaveago said:


> I just don't believe it !!!!
> A firm has been making protective visors and may have to pay £5,000 to have them safety approved by the government !!!!


That's not as outrageous as it may soun when you put it like that.

Safety equipment needs to be tested to be sure that it does what it says it does. For any given classification there will be a set of tests that have to be shown to have passed. The government doesn't perform those tests. The manufacturer can either pay a test house to do de testing, or do it themselves under independent supervision. In either case there's a cost associated with the testing.


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## Hover Fly (21 May 2020)

Old chap next door but 2 was ambulanced away last night, this morning his wife went the same way. This is really horrible.


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## Tenacious Sloth (21 May 2020)

Illaveago said:


> I just don't believe it !!!!
> A firm has been making protective visors and may have to pay £5,000 to have them safety approved by the government !!!!


Sounds like a Daily Mail headline.


----------



## Milzy (21 May 2020)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Sounds like a Daily Mail headline.


My mate has printed all sorts for NHS nobody said anything about safety.


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## Inertia (21 May 2020)

Milzy said:


> My mate has printed all sorts for NHS nobody said anything about safety.


You mean equipment? It all need to be checked otherwise it can be worse than no equipment.


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## Milzy (21 May 2020)

Inertia said:


> You mean equipment? It all need to be checked otherwise it can be worse than no equipment.


Yes he did some visors too. He's a computer wizard and 3D printing enthusiast. His stuff is better quality than China. He watched things unfold on tommorows world in the 80's and now does inventing himself.


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## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

Come on,it's time to send them back now! These 'children' are up to no good now that boredom has set in. Anti-social behaviour is on the rise and they certainly aren't 'social distancing',as i see youths down to infant school children in large groups,either with or without parents.
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....irus-guidelines-gather-east-lancs-lake-party/
The teachers have had their nice long holiday. It's only about 6 weeks before the summer holidays begin. Then we'll have another 6 weeks of them to put up with!


----------



## winjim (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Come on,it's time to send them back now! These 'children' are up to no good now that boredom has set in. Anti-social behaviour is on the rise and they certainly aren't 'social distancing',as i see youths down to infant school children in large groups,either with or without parents.
> https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....irus-guidelines-gather-east-lancs-lake-party/
> The teachers have had their nice long holiday. It's only about 6 weeks before the summer holidays begin. Then we'll have another 6 weeks of them to put up with!


I do hope you weren't out applauding last night.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I do hope you weren't out applauding last night.


No,i don't do such things.


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## tom73 (22 May 2020)

Can't think why


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## Milzy (22 May 2020)

Where do you stand if your boss says come back to work please and you don't want to because there's full Furlough until August? 
How's it fair schools been closed but everyone is back at work? If everyone is back at work then schools should be back too. They're just crapping themselves with all the unknown & red tape. In the long run this will cause more damage.


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

tom73 said:


> Can't think why


Because i don't have a pan and large spoon and i'm not into 'look at me' stuff.

Seriously though,this 'lockdown' is now being seen as a holiday to many. The other day up my local park there was a group of i'd say 15 adults in their 30's to 40's and their children. It was a very nice day,so they decided to get the tins out. After an hour or so it was like being in Benidorm! Yes,i can understand them taking advantage of a 'free holiday' and it probably won't happen again in their working life,but all this accruing (or is it accrued?) debt is crazy!!


----------



## vickster (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Because i don't have a pan and large spoon and i'm not into 'look at me' stuff.
> 
> Seriously though,this 'lockdown' is now being seen as a holiday to many. The other day up my local park there was a group of i'd say 15 adults in their 30's to 40's and their children. It was a very nice day,so they decided to get the tins out. After an hour or so it was like being in Benidorm! Yes,i can understand them taking advantage of a 'free holiday' and it probably won't happen again in their working life,but all this accruing (or is it accrued?) debt is crazy!!


Did you report to the police?


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## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

vickster said:


> Did you report to the police?


No i didn't. I don't think it was a police matter. They weren't that bad,just noisy and stuff. Yes,i know it's illegal(i think?),but i'm not into 'telling tales'.


----------



## Milzy (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Because i don't have a pan and large spoon and i'm not into 'look at me' stuff.
> 
> Seriously though,this 'lockdown' is now being seen as a holiday to many. The other day up my local park there was a group of i'd say 15 adults in their 30's to 40's and their children. It was a very nice day,so they decided to get the tins out. After an hour or so it was like being in Benidorm! Yes,i can understand them taking advantage of a 'free holiday' and it probably won't happen again in their working life,but all this accruing (or is it accrued?) debt is crazy!!


I agree. My Auntie Joy died of covid-19 this week, she was in a care home. Yes I'm angry and frustrated but I'm still going to the beach next week. Been careful of course. Life has to go on, we can't wait 10 years for a vaccine. Outbreaks have happened in this world for thousands of years. Funny how in 2020 ethics come before the world's greed. Why now?


----------



## vickster (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> No i didn't. I don't think it was a police matter. They weren't that bad,just noisy and stuff. Yes,i know it's illegal(i think?),but i'm not into 'telling tales'.



I'd say it was precisely a police matter, and a few fines could help some of the debt


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## tom73 (22 May 2020)

Who's fault is that ? The official message and advice is all over the place with no joined up thinking. With many in government and the media still not understanding that they are no longer in control the virus is. Public health is complex it won't lead itself to sound bites, if's ,but's, we advice or we recommend.


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## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

Milzy said:


> Life has to go on, we can't wait 10 years for a vaccine.


Yes it has to! The other day a neighbour,when i said to him i can't wait for the shops and pubs to open,said " You seriously are not going to go in a pub are you"?!! Why not,i replied. "because people will die in them if they re-open"! he replied. More or less everything we do in our lives involves a risk. Ok,i'm going to talk about me now. I read the other day that those who live alone have a 50% higher chance of serious illness,due to lack of human interaction,especially with this lockdown in place. I'm certainly prepared to take a chance! I think i've more chance of ending up brown bread stuck in my flat,than i have of catching the virus in my local pub!


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## dodgy (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> No i didn't. I don't think it was a police matter. They weren't that bad,just noisy and stuff. Yes,i know it's illegal(i think?),but i'm not into 'telling tales'.



From your frequent posts on here you appear to live somewhere could politely be described as 'a bit rough''. 'Telling tales'? Are you 6?
Your area will never improve if this is the mindset of the adults who live there.


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## matticus (22 May 2020)

Bloody teachers.

When we're allowed to holiday (in the UK) in August, they'll all still be on their summer holidays, driving the prices up. Some will have pre-booked places a year ago. Bastards!


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## tom73 (22 May 2020)

Or put it another way if someone said I can give you the power to kill others slowly and in pain. You can't pick who and you will never know it may even be some one you love or care about, a mate , a friend or someone who others really need to live. 
Would you take it ?


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## Accy cyclist (22 May 2020)

dodgy said:


> 'Telling tales'? Are you 6?


I don't exactly know those who had the 'party',but i know of them and i presume they know of me. No one else was in the small park,apart from me and them. They'd probably suss it was me,if the police had a word with them. Seriously though,imagine phoning 101 and saying 'Some adults are drinking and not social distancing' blah blah. For starters,no one answers 101 calls and secondly i'd be thinking to myself 'Have you got feck all else to do?! You'll get paid back somewhere along the line for that'!!


----------



## dodgy (22 May 2020)

Yeah, perhaps you're right, no point trying.


----------



## fossyant (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Come on,it's time to send them back now! These 'children' are up to no good now that boredom has set in. Anti-social behaviour is on the rise and they certainly aren't 'social distancing',as i see youths down to infant school children in large groups,either with or without parents.
> https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....irus-guidelines-gather-east-lancs-lake-party/
> The teachers have had their nice long holiday. It's only about 6 weeks before the summer holidays begin. Then we'll have another 6 weeks of them to put up with!



Really ?

The mini virus spreaders will result in a second wave, and longer time without being able to see nana and grandad. Leave the schools shut until September. 

I've been looking at possible options from a Universities UK (UUK) Paper and it's going next to impossible for us to go back to offices safely, never mind class rooms. In a 2 x 6 bank of desks, you could get 4 people at a desk at a safe distance. In a 4 bank, just 1 person. so offices, at best will only be a 3rd full, possibly just a quarter. It's a similar situation in a classroom. 1 in, 1 out for most toilet's at work. Knock and shout 'anyone in' before entering.


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## fossyant (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I don't exactly know those who had the 'party',but i know of them and i presume they know of me. No one else was in the small park,apart from me and them. They'd probably suss it was me,if the police had a word with them. Seriously though,imagine phoning 101 and saying 'Some adults are drinking and not social distancing' blah blah. For starters,no one answers 101 calls and secondly i'd be thinking to myself 'Have you got feck all else to do?! You'll get paid back somewhere along the line for that'!!



There was a group of 6 adults getting 'piddled' stood in the corner of our local shopping precinct last night (pharmacy visit for me). TBH, they didn't look the most healthy of people, so if they want to run the risk of the virus then so be it, so long as they don't come near me.


----------



## Rusty Nails (22 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> The mini virus spreaders will result in a second wave, and longer time without being able to see nana and grandad. Leave the schools shut until September.
> I've been looking at possible options from a Universities UK (UUK) Paper and *it's going next to impossible for us to go back to offices safely, *never mind class rooms. In a 2 x 6 bank of desks, you could get 4 people at a desk at a safe distance. In a 4 bank, just 1 person. so offices, at best will only be a 3rd full, possibly just a quarter. It's a similar situation in a classroom. 1 in, 1 out for most toilet's at work. Knock and shout 'anyone in' before entering.



The big problem is defining "safely". It may well be that for a very long time there is no absolute level of "safely" and we have to decide as individuals and society what is an acceptable level of risk that we have to live with.

I worry about any government, of any hue, putting restrictions on certain groups for "their own safety". As an older person I can read the infection/mortality statistics and am prepared to take a level of additional risk to balance doing the things I enjoy with looking after my own health. I do that every day when I get on my bike for a ride or cross a busy road on foot when there are no pedestrian crossings, or occasionally climb a ladder to paint the eaves.

Don't get me wrong, I will stick to the lockdown rules, even though I may not like them, because we have to put our faith in the government acting on the advice of scientific "experts", but I am not sure that any further restrictions based on age alone are as much for the protection of that group as for the rationing of NHS resources.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (22 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I think i've more chance of ending up brown bread stuck in my flat,than i have of catching the virus in my local pub!



This is true, right now. 

The problem is that at a population level, if everyone does this, half a million people will die.


----------



## Moon bunny (22 May 2020)

Hover Fly said:


> Old chap next door but 2 was ambulanced away last night, this morning his wife went the same way. This is really horrible.


We have just had to “rescue” their cats and dog, locked in with no food or water.


----------



## DCLane (22 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> There was a group of 6 adults getting 'piddled' stood in the corner of our local shopping precinct last night (pharmacy visit for me). TBH, they didn't look the most healthy of people, so if they want to run the risk of the virus then so be it, so long as they don't come near me.



There's a lot that seem to no longer care and are mixing whatever. My view is that if they catch it it's their own fault; there's been countless warnings and information. If they want to be stupid, fine. SWMBO will treat them if they're ill.


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## tom73 (22 May 2020)

DCLane said:


> There's a lot that seem to no longer care and are mixing whatever. My view is that if they catch it it's their own fault; there's been countless warnings and information. If they want to be stupid, fine. SWMBO will treat them if they're ill.


Trouble is once infected they can't keep it just to them. The rest of us my end up with too


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## fossyant (22 May 2020)

I was out today, and there were large groups, certainly not bothering with 'guidelines' TBH, I don't want to give a virus to my parents' so I'm staying away - I'll call them, same with the rest of my family - we drop stuff off on the door step, and are a garden away if we do go round, even on my BIL's 60th a couple of weeks ago.


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## Mrs M (22 May 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> We have just had to “rescue” their cats and dog, locked in with no food or water.


Well done


----------



## alicat (22 May 2020)

^^^^^ Yes, good on you for caring and doing something about it.


----------



## All uphill (22 May 2020)

Reading the above confirms my view that I need to be more careful now that other people are relaxing. I think we are heading for a second wave, and with a population that won't be on for a second shutdown I'llneed to protect myself.

I know just how fortunate I am having a lovely partner, garden and bikes, and understand how I might be feeling if I was stuck indoors.


----------



## Dave7 (23 May 2020)

Milzy said:


> I agree. My Auntie Joy died of covid-19 this week, she was in a care home. Yes I'm angry and frustrated but I'm still going to the beach next week. Been careful of course. Life has to go on, we can't wait 10 years for a vaccine. Outbreaks have happened in this world for thousands of years. Funny how in 2020 ethics come before the world's greed. Why now?


Hope you have a strong bladder as there will be no toilets open.


----------



## Dave7 (23 May 2020)

DCLane said:


> There's a lot that seem to no longer care and are mixing whatever. My view is that if they catch it it's their own fault; there's been countless warnings and information. If they want to be stupid, fine. SWMBO will treat them if they're ill.


I am with you re "if they catch it it's their own fault" but its who else the selfish beggars pass it on to that I get angry about.


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## Dave7 (23 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> I was out today, and there were large groups, certainly not bothering with 'guidelines' TBH, I don't want to give a virus to my parents' so I'm staying away - I'll call them, same with the rest of my family - we drop stuff off on the door step, and are a garden away if we do go round, even on my BIL's 60th a couple of weeks ago.


60th ehh.
A mere nipper then


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

Milzy said:


> Where do you stand if your boss says come back to work please and you don't want to because there's full Furlough until August?
> How's it fair schools been closed but everyone is back at work? If everyone is back at work then schools should be back too. They're just crapping themselves with all the unknown & red tape. In the long run this will cause more damage.


Just been reading this...

_Britons do not want to go back into work because they fear the lockdown is being eased too quickly – and they enjoy being at home, a poll revealed last night.

The survey was a setback for Boris Johnson, illustrating the uphill task he faces to bring the nation’s moribund economy back to life quickly.

It showed that on average people have more money in their pockets than when the lockdown started – with public-sector workers gaining the most. 

Millions of voters are putting their feet up at home – and an astonishing four in ten have put on weight, particularly worrying following clear evidence of a link between obesity and coronavirus._

We knew this furlough thing would be seen as a paid for holiday,especially by the pampered public sector! Didn't the chancellor think that offering a generous 80% of wages would be easily manageable to most,meaning they've learnt to live comfortably off it and now see it as a way of life. I bet those gawp at their phone for hours,then maybe push a mop around for a while, 20's/30's year old staff at the council run gym i attend are loving it! No doubt they'll be one of the last places to open,yet it's supposed to be a local amenity paid for by us community charge payers.

Then we have the rise in obesity! We've been told for weeks now that obesity is responsible for many of the virus deaths,yet what have they been doing,contrary to this image that everybody couldn't wait for lockdown restrictions to be lifted,so they could exercise like billyo! They've been gorging themselves on take-aways!

So now it seems that they've developed a phobia about going back to work and then catching the virus.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...use-to-return-over-risk-to-health-union-warns

This is why i can't see schools opening again till after their long summer holidays!


----------



## winjim (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just been reading this...
> 
> _Britons do not want to go back into work because they fear the lockdown is being eased too quickly – and they enjoy being at home, a poll revealed last night.
> 
> ...


Daily Mail, in case anybody's wondering.


----------



## Slick (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just been reading this...
> 
> _Britons do not want to go back into work because they fear the lockdown is being eased too quickly – and they enjoy being at home, a poll revealed last night.
> 
> ...


I'm not entirely sure where the information is coming from Accy but it doesn't reflect the conversations I'm having between the 3 teams that I manage. The few staff left in the organisation who haven't been furloughed are now working very hard to ensure work is safe and we are ready to return to normal just as soon as possible.


----------



## Slick (23 May 2020)

winjim said:


> Daily Mail, in case anybody's wondering.


Ah.


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

Slick said:


> I'm not entirely sure where the information is coming from Accy but it doesn't reflect the conversations I'm having between the 3 teams that I manage. The few staff left in the organisation who haven't been furloughed are now working very hard to ensure work is safe and we are ready to return to normal just as soon as possible.


Private or public sector?


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## Slick (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Private or public sector?


It's actually a mixture of both. Whilst we are a non departmental government body, most of our activities are strictly commercial.


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## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

Slick said:


> It's actually a mixture of both. Whilst we are a non departmental government body, most of our activities are strictly commercial.


Ok.


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## Julia9054 (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> This is why i can't see schools opening again till after their long summer holidays!


I know it is unlikely to fit with your agenda, but you are aware that school staff are working, aren’t you?


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## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I know it is unlikely to fit with your agenda, but you are aware that school staff are working, aren’t you?


Only part time though,while being paid full time.


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## winjim (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Only part time though,while being paid full time.


Personal question so ignore it if you like, but what do you do? What's your contribution to society and the economy, what do you give and what do you take?


----------



## Julia9054 (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Only part time though,while being paid full time.


Not sure where you have heard this information from (Daily Mail probably) but I and all my colleagues are working our normal hours. We have a small proportion of ancillary staff (some catering, site staff) on furlough but everyone else is being paid their salary because they are working.


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## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

winjim said:


> Personal question so ignore it if you like, but what do you do? What's your contribution to society and the economy, what do you give and what do you take?


I've worked all my working life,up till a few years ago. Health problems mean i'm now on JSA,though to be fair to some public sector employees i don't get hassle at the job centre as they realise there isn't much work out there for the likes of me. Contribution to society wise,i reckon the tax on the beer i buy must pay for at least one public sector workers annual holiday!


----------



## dodgy (23 May 2020)

winjim said:


> Daily Mail, in case anybody's wondering.



Good catch, wish I'd known before I started reading it.


----------



## winjim (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've worked all my working life,up till a few years ago. Health problems mean i'm now on JSA,though to be fair to some public sector employees i don't get hassle at the job centre as they realise there isn't much work out there for the likes of me. Contribution to society wise,i reckon the tax on the beer i buy must pay for at least one public sector workers annual holiday!


Cheers, hope you don't mind me asking, I just wanted to put some of your posts in context.


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## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

The reason i copy and post DM stuff is because it's one of the few rags left that doesn't ask you to subscribe before being able to read their articles in full.

It seems that 'free online newspapers' aren't that free to read anymore. My local daily paper now asks for money for i'd say around 75% of its articles.


----------



## marinyork (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> So now it seems that they've developed a phobia about going back to work and then catching the virus.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/educati...use-to-return-over-risk-to-health-union-warns
> 
> This is why i can't see schools opening again till after their long summer holidays!



Accy, try and minimise the thoughts about other people, look after yourself, that's job enough for anyone in these times.

Some people will fear going back to work, the question on that is how do you make workers feel less apprehensive about it, what are the levels of risk in different jobs, workplaces and sectors. What causes the fears? A lack of clear communication by the government is one. Not publishing advice on schools until this week really doesn't help either. Lack of PPE in some jobs definitely causes fear. The saga that is UK testing, the testing is in a much better place for general workers than it was in Feb/March but the sagas erode confidence massively.


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

marinyork said:


> Accy, try and minimise the thoughts about other people, look after yourself, that's job enough for anyone in these times.


I do,but my mind keeps working overtime,analysing everything i see or read about! I suppose some would say it keeps your mind active,but as you'll know we never come to a conclusion,which just adds to the problem.


----------



## newfhouse (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> the pampered public sector





winjim said:


> Daily Mail, in case anybody's wondering.


Yeah, that fits. Winkers.


----------



## marinyork (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I do,but my mind keeps working overtime,analysing everything i see or read about! I suppose some would say it keeps your mind active,but as you'll know we never come to a conclusion,which just adds to the problem.



I was watching way too much news. I've pretty much cut the news out and I know you have some characters that live on your road too, but I've found since cutting that out and exercising 2-3 times a day that things are better for me. I've even been doing some things I enjoy now.

I think one of the difficult aspects is living on your own but I think you've coped really well. I think it doesn't help that on-line tv that people who live on their own isn't covered so much, so there tends to be the tendency to look outwards and wonder what other people are up to.

When schools physically re-open (and the government keeping it vague so some would have expected September and then suddenly saying 1st June is going to cause a lot of anxiety) there will be all sorts of issues to sort out and massive catching up to do. That's not particularly a task I envy. For those finishing school at 16, or 18 or moving to secondary school, that's a very difficult one.

Gyms you brought up. There are differences in gyms. I think that's one of the problems of regarding things job by job or sub-sector by sub-sector. My gym said it 'wasn't a gym', clearly frustrations there was they regard the risks in their gym as lower than some others or underestimating the risk or worried about going under if it didn't reopen till October (speculated tabloid date).


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## tom73 (23 May 2020)

Accy You do know that many of the staff that work in schools are not teachers ? 
Many are no longer working for the public sector. But been hived off to the likes of Serco 
Who many will fall into higher risk groups not just medically but for other factors which we now know are linked to higher Covid deaths. 
Such as BAME , low pay , to date the government have not published any advise for school as to how to manage the risk to support staff. Or even what the risks are which for some will be higher than teaching staff. 
No unions that represent them have yet been asked to any government meeting about the reporting of schools. 
Which given the fact fact that support staff are most of the school workforce is a massive oversight. A meeting has now been set up next week days before the increase in class numbers is due to start. 
Then we have academies which given my own experience are only in it for the money and really don't give a fig for students or staff. None of them have anything to do with the public sector and staff don't work for the LA once they take control of once owned public assets for free.


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## Accy cyclist (23 May 2020)

tom73 said:


> Many are no longer working for the public sector. But been hived off to the likes of Serco
> Who many will fall into higher risk groups not just medically but for other factors which we now know are linked to higher Covid deaths


A friend of mine was telling me yesterday that she's being 'over loaded' with online projects from the school she works at as a teaching assistant. She told me the school has a manager now, who's on 40 grand a year. I didn't know that schools had managers! When i left school in 1977 it was run by a headmaster and a board of governors,or something like that. She said if it gets any worse she'll apply for supermarket jobs,when/if some come up. She'd probably be better off financially and stress free wise,as one attraction about such work is that there are three major supermarkets within 5 minutes walk of where she lives,one being less than 30 seconds walk away. Ok,i'll hold my hand up and admit that i'm out of touch with 'working life' now. I suppose i do need to get some kind of work,more for my state of mind than for financial reasons,but it'll be very difficult when this lock down ends.


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## tom73 (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> A friend of mine was telling me yesterday that she's being 'over loaded' with online projects from the school she works at as a teaching assistant. She told me the school has a manager now, who's on 40 grand a year. I didn't know that schools had managers! When i left school in 1977 it was run by a headmaster and a board of governors,or something like that. She said if it gets any worse she'll apply for supermarket jobs,when/if some come up. She'd probably be better off financially and stress free wise,as one attraction about such work is that there are three major supermarkets within 5 minutes walk of where she lives,one being less than 30 seconds walk away. Ok,i'll hold my hand up and admit that i'm out of touch with 'working life' now. I suppose i do need to get some kind of work,more for my state of mind than for financial reasons,but it'll be very difficult when this lock down ends.



Many school are now ran by mangers even heads and deputy heads don't do much more then manage.
Academy chains are even worse they have CEO on pay to match many are millionaires inc one that heads up ours.


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## lane (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Only part time though,while being paid full time.



Just reading a letter from the local primary school. Reception starting back 4 days a week. Smaller classes so spread through the school involving most / all staff. What do the staff do on Friday? All staff will be deep cleaning the school as well as looking after the other 6 years working remotely. They want the children back at school but also want to make sure it's safe. 

My wife is paid to continue to teach students remotely. She is working a lot more hours than she is paid for.


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## Rusty Nails (23 May 2020)

My daughter is a teacher. She would like to get back to school to teach as soon as safely possible but she cannot go back unless her child-minder (who looks after three other kids) is allowed to start again.

I cannot help but feeling that the government's keenness to get younger kids back to school quickly is part tokenism and part to help companies get their staff back in, and only in part about the education of young kids.

My daughter also sat in on that Zoom TU meeting with Bousted and she said that the comments about kids snots, while inadvisable given the lack of privacy of Zoom, were said with the sort of black humour that teachers often use between themselves when talking about kids. Of course the Mail is working hard on showing it as nasty unions using kids as pawns in their ongoing battle with the government.


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## Inertia (23 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I do,but my mind keeps working overtime,analysing everything i see or read about! I suppose some would say it keeps your mind active,but as you'll know we never come to a conclusion,which just adds to the problem.


Tempting as it may be I'd advise against using the Mail as a reliable source of news, it will only make your blood pressure rise.


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## Unkraut (24 May 2020)

Inertia said:


> Tempting as it may be I'd advise against using the Mail as a reliable source of news,


I'm having great difficulty processing the disillusionment felt on reading this ...

On an encouraging note, I happened to meet an acquaintance of mine whilst dumping garden rubbish at the tip like you do, and she claimed that there are now no cases of corona in the two villages combined together that form my local area. I hope that this is true, and that it bodes well for the virus continuing to be kept in check. 

The restrictions are being lifted one after the other now, pretty quickly and hotels and guest houses are next on the list, being allowed to open from 29th May (with suitable hygiene arrangements in place).


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## StuAff (24 May 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> My daughter also sat in on that Zoom TU meeting with Bousted and she said that the comments about kids snots, while inadvisable given the lack of privacy of Zoom, were said with the sort of black humour that teachers often use between themselves when talking about kids. Of course the Mail is working hard on showing it as nasty unions using kids as pawns in their ongoing battle with the government.


The hilariously angry reactions to that seem to be from people who have never had children, or never were one, somehow. Or just hypocrites. Mrs Gove had a dig yet had previously compared her own child to Pig-Pen from Peanuts....
And just think of Joyce Grenfell's nursery monologue. 'George, don't…oh, you're sanitising your hands and social distancing in accordance with government recommendations. Carry on' wouldn't exactly have a ring to it.


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## Stephenite (24 May 2020)

I/we lost a family friend to covid-19 last night. A 70 year old man (in the UK) who I've known for 40 years. He was self-isolating from an early stage but called in to hospital for treatment of a non-respiratory illness and probably picked it up in connection to this. Well missed by family and friends.


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## winjim (25 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I'm autistic, I can go wherever I want, as often as I like, if it stops me flipping out.
> 
> View attachment 517509


I joked about it at the time, but this seems a lot more sinister this morning. I didn't think I could get more angry and upset but I can't help feel that autistic people have been used to provide some sort of exemption for people who might be able to abuse it.


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## Joey Shabadoo (26 May 2020)

Just back from the weekly walk to our local Lidl. I was the only one in the store wearing a mask - bar one guy who had his round his neck. Unless this is made mandatory, people are clearly not going to bother.


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## C R (26 May 2020)

Same experience for me, also lots of people not bothering to try keeping the distance any more. I found my last visit to the supermarket quite stressful.


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## Julia9054 (26 May 2020)

Cycled to York yesterday. A few cafes open doing takeaway. It felt like early on a Sunday morning - very pleasant. I got a smoothie and a cake and sat on the quay side. Almost a cafe stop!
Cycled back along the riverside path which was absolutely heaving. Quite stressful from an "avoiding people on my bike " point of view never mind social distancing - of which there appeared to be none. Not a mask in sight. A route to avoid in future.


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## Inertia (26 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just back from the weekly walk to our local Lidl. I was the only one in the store wearing a mask - bar one guy who had his round his neck. Unless this is made mandatory, people are clearly not going to bother.


Same Experience here, if they are helpful, and if they do want us to wear them they need to make it clear.


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## DCLane (26 May 2020)

Got stressed on Saturday - I needed to go to a particular shop in Dewsbury for something. The owner had family, friends and others in there for what seemed to be a party. Hand-shaking, crowds, the lot. Shaking hands, eating food and handling cash plus my item with the same hand.

It clearly bothered me more than I thought as I've struggled since.

Got out on my bike yesterday and two local lakes (Pugneys and Newmillerdam near Wakefield) had groups there, ice cream vans and little spacing between people.

No-one locally appears to be bothered any more. My view, albeit cynical, is if they catch it then it's their fault. The only concern is that SWMBO's working in a Covid rehab unit and at risk from these idiots.


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## Leedsbusdriver (26 May 2020)

Doing fine thanks. I must say First bus (the company i work for) have IMO been doing all they can under the circumstances. We have been given gloves and hand sanitizer and anti bacterial wipes to clean touch points in the cab. The buses have been cleaned and sanitized every time they reach the bus station,and deep cleaned every night in the depot. Every second row of seats have signs on them saying not to use them. This means that on a double decker,the capacity is now only twenty. Feeling lucky to be able to go out to work,and to enjoy the quieter roads when driving,and streets when i'm on my breaks.
So overall i can't complain. Thanks to all the key workers out there!


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## marinyork (27 May 2020)

On monday a neighbour had mates around again for the bank holiday. After there seemed to be an argument in the street with someone else on the street who has been socialising for weeks. Perhaps they'll dob each other in.

Been past a park every evening and the crowds get bigger day by day. Socially distanced slightly or 2m groups of 6-15 are now normal.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 May 2020)

Lockdown is over as far as many are concerned and the continued defence of Dominic Cumming means many are saying well if “they” do not give a fark neither do we.


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## fossyant (27 May 2020)

This weather only exasperates the situation. Ancoats in Manchester was rammed over the weekend, as a pub was selling take outs. Loads in the local news about it - resident's had to clear up the mess from the square. Non-essential shops in Cheetham Hill haven't closed - all the knock off clothing shops have still been open.

One of these idiots won't be happy when a relative catches it from their behavior.


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## lane (27 May 2020)

On my street where there previously was a high degree of compliance that now seems to have largely broken down. Possibly people perceive the risk to be lower now, which of course it is. Or they are fed up. Or it's Cummings.

Either way the Government are now considering further relaxations which in reality have already occured.


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## Inertia (27 May 2020)

lane said:


> On my street where there previously was a high degree of compliance that now seems to have largely broken down. Possibly people perceive the risk to be lower now, which of course it is. Or they are fed up. Or it's Cummings.
> 
> Either way the Government are now considering further relaxations which in reality have already occured.


Such is the toxicity of the situation, are they now making decisions to protect us or fix the Dominic Cummings situation?


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## rogerzilla (27 May 2020)

I'm fairly sure I had it more or less asymptomatically. Dry cough for about 12 hours, nothing more. SO had it really badly and was hospitalised but our symptoms started on the same day. I think I'm not susceptible to it; my sister is a nurse on a CV19 ward and is the only one of the original staff in that ward who hasn't yet caught it. Similar DNA, of course. It takes some people and not others, possibly because it's a new virus and hasn't mutated enough to work in most humans.


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## Joey Shabadoo (27 May 2020)

This good weather has got all the kids in lockdown out playing in the gardens. 

I've just been treated to my neighbour's kids (aged about 6 or 7) having this lovely conversation -



"Gie me it"

"nut"

"It's ma turn, gie me it"

"nut"

"Muuuummmm. Michael isnae sharing it"

(mother) Michael - gie him it if it shuts the wee c**t up"

"nut"

"mum say tae gie me it ye farking piece o shite"





Ahh, the joyful play of children


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## Ming the Merciless (27 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> This good weather has got all the kids in lockdown out playing in the gardens.
> 
> I've just been treated to my neighbour's kids (aged about 6 or 7) having this lovely conversation -
> 
> ...



You wait till they lose that childhood innocence


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## lane (27 May 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> I'm fairly sure I had it more or less asymptomatically. Dry cough for about 12 hours, nothing more. SO had it really badly and was hospitalised but our symptoms started on the same day. I think I'm not susceptible to it; my sister is a nurse on a CV19 ward and is the only one of the original staff in that ward who hasn't yet caught it. Similar DNA, of course. It takes some people and not others, possibly because it's a new virus and hasn't mutated enough to work in most humans.




The sibling connection does seem to follow such as other cases of both siblings dieing DNA as you say.

I don't think you comment about not working is correct. The virus does not benefit from killing the host. Over time it may mutate to be less lethal. People getting milder symptoms work well for the virus it can spread faster.


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## marinyork (27 May 2020)

I thought a bit was the weather but even with the clouds and rain it's been a trend of bigger groups every day.

This is social distancing today and every day.


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## oldwheels (27 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You wait till they lose that childhood innocence


My neighbour's two kids aged 5 and 6 have been out playing in the sunshine. The fence to the next door garden on the other side has been removed for building a new shed so they invaded next door garden also. Fortunately the next door house is quite calm about it as the kids are oblivious to any problems. We have no known cases anywhere near anyway but it is possible to be too complacent.


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## winjim (27 May 2020)

winjim said:


> I joked about it at the time, but this seems a lot more sinister this morning. I didn't think I could get more angry and upset but I can't help feel that autistic people have been used to provide some sort of exemption for people who might be able to abuse it.


This was a red herring I think.


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## tom73 (27 May 2020)

All done to pot here too. People still coming and going round each other houses. 
Next door even talking about going to the caravan  Local tesco's no-one bothering anymore with the one way now only going in early but now that get's a bit of a push as more call in on way to work. Traffic is back to normal at usual times.
Still only going to M&S in town and only for basics as it still feel's safe. But as things open up even walk to the shop or even queuing will get difficult. Many now are just walk past as if noting is wrong. When this started the LA had a recored message playing working of the risk and what to do. That change when the stay alert came in now the message is more like a welcome and thank for visiting as if your on a day out. 
I'm happy to play my the rules and will carry on actions of others now makes it harder than ever.


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## fossyant (27 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> This good weather has got all the kids in lockdown out playing in the gardens.
> 
> I've just been treated to my neighbour's kids (aged about 6 or 7) having this lovely conversation -
> 
> ...



The girls over the road just constantly scream. 5 under 10, 2 teens and two late teens. I'm far enough away to not hear it, but the poor next door neighbours are tearing their hair out as both can't go out due to major health issues. Can't even sit in their gardens due to the noise.


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## vickster (27 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> The girls over the road just constantly scream. 5 under 10, 2 teens and two late teens. I'm far enough away to not hear it, but the poor next door neighbours are tearing their hair out as both can't go out due to major health issues. Can't even sit in their gardens due to the noise.


9 children?


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## fossyant (27 May 2020)

Not too bad locally. Aldi and Morrisons well organised and everyone still doing their bit to keep their distance. 

Was talking to one of the guys in the local pharmacy and he was saying he thinks too many are getting comfy with 80% paid wages. He was behind a couple of guys buying beer in the local shop who said they were quite OK not working and drinking for 80%. God help us.


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## fossyant (27 May 2020)

vickster said:


> 9 children?



Yep. 2 older, like 19 or 20, then two twins in mid teens, then two more boys at primary and three fostered girls. They make a mint out of the fostering. No supervision of the youngsters. House is same size as ours with a side extension (we have a small 3 bed house) But he has a building in the back garden that does not have planning that some of the kids sleep in. Its a mad house. God knows where they all sleep as the two older ones will have own rooms (young man and woman).


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## Accy cyclist (28 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> They make a mint out of the fostering.





fossyant said:


> But he has a building in the back garden that does not have planning that some of the kids sleep in.


I'd report them to the council. You can turn a blind eye to this when they aren't bothering you,but it sounds like they're taking the piss and don't give a toss about their neighbours.


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## StuAff (28 May 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> This good weather has got all the kids in lockdown out playing in the gardens.
> 
> I've just been treated to my neighbour's kids (aged about 6 or 7) having this lovely conversation -
> 
> ...


Biffa Bacon script made flesh.....


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## marinyork (28 May 2020)

Test and trace seems to have triggered off a change in behaviour in contractors.

Daily/Bidaily telephone call for weeks for the specially clinically vulnerable shielding household asking whether needed any food and how the household is doing. 

This morning call a totally different tone and asking rather tersely whether anyone has any symptoms in the house. No. Person 1 literally hasn't left the house for weeks. Person 2 only goes out for medical appointments. Person 3 working from home and has only had > 2m outside contact with 2 other people in 10 weeks? Call handler not totally convinced. Of course any of us could have the virus, but if we had symptoms we'd be the first on the phone as a shielding household. You can get a test if you want, well if you have symptoms of course!

Maybe a new call handler. I suspect not.


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## Accy cyclist (28 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> Was talking to one of the guys in the local pharmacy and he was saying he thinks too many are getting comfy with 80% paid wages. He was behind a couple of guys buying beer in the local shop who said they were quite OK not working and drinking for 80%. God help us.


There's a bit of animosity creeping in now towards those who've had a 'nice long paid for holiday' from those who haven't and rightly so to an extent. Now that a lot of restrictions have been lifted many on furlough are seeing it even more as a paid for holiday! I think it would be fair if the government were to recognise those who've worked through the virus crisis with some sort of tax relief maybe.


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## Accy cyclist (28 May 2020)

A bloke who lives across from the small park i 'hang out' in has had his _e.on _van parked up now for months. I take it he's been furloughed. He sits in the park nearly every day,boozing with his mates. Surely energy companies have been working through the virus. I'm just wondering why he hasn't?


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## Beebo (28 May 2020)

My neighbour 3 doors up came home last night. He’s been in hospital since 2 days before lockdown. He was in a coma for over 2 weeks and it was touch and go that he would live. 

Everyone came out to clap. His wife hasn’t seen him for weeks. He looked very weak, lost huge amounts of weight, his voice is changed due to scarring in his throat and he’s lost full use of one arm. 

He’s only in his early 50s but does have a history of pneumonia, but other than that he’s always been healthy. He now has a battle ahead to get back to full health. 

That’s the scary part, no one knows how they will cope if they get it. And can you get it twice?


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## DCLane (28 May 2020)

Beebo said:


> My neighbour 3 doors up came home last night. He’s been in hospital since 2 days before lockdown. He was in a coma for over 2 weeks and it was touch and go that he would live.
> 
> Everyone came out to clap. His wife hasn’t seen him for weeks. He looked very weak, lost huge amounts of weight, his voice is changed due to scarring in his throat and he’s lost full use of one arm.



These are the patients SWMBO is supporting. It's likely they have had a tracheotomy and therefore need to learn to swallow again (needing a Speech Therapist), along with a PEG feed which needs to be removed with the patient starting to be re-fed (her role as a Dietitian).

She's had some bad ones come in and got a bit wobbly as a result but will be fine once they start getting better.


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## Julia9054 (28 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> A bloke who lives across from the small park i 'hang out' in has had his _e.on _van parked up now for months. I take it he's been furloughed. He sits in the park nearly every day,boozing with his mates. Surely energy companies have been working through the virus. I'm just wondering why he hasn't?


That would be up to his employer surely? If he has been furloughed it is because his employer doesn’t have enough work for him.


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## Beebo (29 May 2020)

DCLane said:


> These are the patients SWMBO is supporting. It's likely they have had a tracheotomy and therefore need to learn to swallow again (needing a Speech Therapist), along with a PEG feed which needs to be removed with the patient starting to be re-fed (her role as a Dietitian).
> 
> She's had some bad ones come in and got a bit wobbly as a result but will be fine once they start getting better.


I see the government have reopened Headley Court, an old armed forces rehabilitation hospital, just for CV19 rehab. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-52839103


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## lazybloke (29 May 2020)

Beebo said:


> I see the government have reopened Headley Court, an old armed forces rehabilitation hospital, just for CV19 rehab.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-52839103


That's only a few minutes from me.

They announced it would reopen some time ago for pandemic recovery.
Going by the numerous overdue promises of Hancock and chums, I assumed it was for Spanish Flu victims.


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## derrick (29 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Come on,it's time to send them back now! These 'children' are up to no good now that boredom has set in. Anti-social behaviour is on the rise and they certainly aren't 'social distancing',as i see youths down to infant school children in large groups,either with or without parents.
> https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....irus-guidelines-gather-east-lancs-lake-party/
> The teachers have had their nice long holiday. It's only about 6 weeks before the summer holidays begin. Then we'll have another 6 weeks of them to put up with!


Have you always been so happy. Or did you go to a special school.🤣🤣


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## fossyant (29 May 2020)

Lots of questions coming in from colleagues about WFH. Equipment etc. Now wwe are 3 months in, it's certain we won't be back for at least another 3 months. Those that left in a hurry want to collect monitors etc. Buildings shut. Nothing being said from higher up yet..


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## glasgowcyclist (29 May 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> A bloke who lives across from the small park i 'hang out' in has had his _e.on _van parked up now for months. I take it he's been furloughed. He sits in the park nearly every day,boozing with his mates. Surely energy companies have been working through the virus. I'm just wondering why he hasn't?



Ask him.


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## DCLane (29 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> Lots of questions coming in from colleagues about WFH. Equipment etc. Now wwe are 3 months in, it's certain we won't be back for at least another 3 months. Those that left in a hurry want to collect monitors etc. Buildings shut. Nothing being said from higher up yet..



My university's been told it'll be for the next 18 months. We're expecting it to be long term.


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## fossyant (29 May 2020)

DCLane said:


> My university's been told it'll be for the next 18 months. We're expecting it to be long term.



We will be open for the new term but doing block teaching and modular. Classroom sizes/labs etc are a huge issue. Some staff not willing to work shifts - i.e. early opening for students to do lab work etc.

I saw a UUK paper last week, and in a bank of 4 desks, you can get just 1 member of staff. In a 2 x 6 banks, just 4 staff. My office is two finance, 2 student services, and 14 marketing. We will get 7 in the office max.


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## Hugh Manatee (29 May 2020)

It seems that a few of you work in universities. Would you be wanting your kids to be starting this year in September? It is a huge investment they (and us as parents) are making. Can you see them getting value for money?
I have twins who should have been taking A Levels, well, about now actually! They are going to the same university although doing different courses on different campuses.
One is doing Fine Art which doesn't seem like it would be much good online.

I really don't know how to advise them.


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## Julia9054 (30 May 2020)

Hugh Manatee said:


> It seems that a few of you work in universities. Would you be wanting your kids to be starting this year in September? It is a huge investment they (and us as parents) are making. Can you see them getting value for money?
> I have twins who should have been taking A Levels, well, about now actually! They are going to the same university although doing different courses on different campuses.
> One is doing Fine Art which doesn't seem like it would be much good online.
> 
> I really don't know how to advise them.


I would advise them to defer for a year.


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## DCLane (30 May 2020)

Hugh Manatee said:


> It seems that a few of you work in universities. Would you be wanting your kids to be starting this year in September? It is a huge investment they (and us as parents) are making. Can you see them getting value for money?
> I have twins who should have been taking A Levels, well, about now actually! They are going to the same university although doing different courses on different campuses.
> One is doing Fine Art which doesn't seem like it would be much good online.
> 
> I really don't know how to advise them.



It's a difficult one. What would they be doing instead? No-one can guarantee that in a year's time the situation will be any different.

Depending on the university there will be classes, just mostly online until at least January. They would miss out on the typical first year 'fresher' activity and social bonding will be more complex.

I can see about 20-25% deferring. However, quite a number (about 5-10% of new starters) appear to be using university as an expensive gap year, and not actually engaging with the course - just taking the student loan and having a nice time without considering the consequences.

International student numbers are going to collapse, which is a concern for many universities. But that will mean we've more time for the students we have. I've run additional seminar sessions via Google Meets / MS Teams for my students and they've been OK, although some haven't engaged or sat quiet.


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## gbb (30 May 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Ask him.


My son is a BG engineer. The original plan was to furlough staff on a rotational basis to enable them to cover lesser demand. I think they're only generally covering emergencies so having thousands of staff sitting waiting for a bit of work is pointless, so rest some, cover the workload with others. Then it changed and anyone (my understanding of what he described) who has vulnerable members of family is furloughed, period.

Perhaps this is what's happening in other companies.
Apologies, quoted the wrong message, should have been Accys question re E,ON .


----------



## woodbutcher (30 May 2020)

This article came as a bit of a shock to me this morning , l hope the information is taken seriously by the powers that be :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t-uk-lockdown-sage-adviser?CMP=share_btn_link


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## marinyork (30 May 2020)

Hugh Manatee said:


> It seems that a few of you work in universities. Would you be wanting your kids to be starting this year in September? It is a huge investment they (and us as parents) are making. Can you see them getting value for money?
> I have twins who should have been taking A Levels, well, about now actually! They are going to the same university although doing different courses on different campuses.
> One is doing Fine Art which doesn't seem like it would be much good online.
> 
> I really don't know how to advise them.



I don't have kids, certainly not 18+ ones, but I am a research student at my 3rd university.

I'm going to give a completely different answer to the other two given. Yes, now's a potentially strange but great time for some to go to university in September for various lesser talked about reasons.

Depending on studiousness, subject and personality I would definitely consider going this year, with the proviso of being able to afford it and what you want. Although one may also save quite a bit of money... Many subjects have relatively low contact hours, many skip some lectures and attend on-line anyway. The start of term in September is totally crazy and this is too much for a large minority of students. It's noisy, it's chaotic and there is so much Fear of Missing Out. in September this will be the only year in history where there won't be fear of missing out compared to your fellow students - it may exist thinking towards next year! If you really love your subject and want to navigate things distraction free, it's a good time. My supervisors are spending MORE time with first year students at the moment. Large minorities of 1st and 2nd years spend a lot of their time fretting over that they can't make deep and meaningful friendships on their course/housemates for various reasons and that there's something wrong with them despite streets thronged with students and packed eateries and coffee shops on/near campuses/uni buildings. Not any more.

Additionally if wealthy enough (some are) many students jet off to travel on holidays/margins of term/exams. That is just not gonna likely be happening normally over the summer or large or all parts of 2020/21. You can't disappear now and go on a gap year travelling. So again it makes sense. In 3-4 year's time, yeah on that sort of timescale going travelling and all that jazz is more likely to be 'normal'.

Let's look at what someone might do instead of uni. A job. So with everything mixed up there will be opportunities for some who want to work this year. Let's be honest and I have a bit of perspective that many of the older posters here don't have. I graduated and had the world financial crisis to deal with. It absolutely fecking sucked. The world financial crisis is going to be a tea party compared to the economic destruction now and post-millenials, many are going to have an extremely difficult time finding work, getting on etc. It's going to be a gigantic blight on this generation and people are already talking about this stuff now. If an 18 year old has got some fantastic job offer and not sure what to do at uni that's fair enough. If your children are extremely extroverted and party animals wanting very packed and noisy environments all day long and not so fussed about the subject, then yeah probably give it a miss this year. For most others, it won't be that bad, infact there'll be some positives. Societies and sports are being geared up to do stuff in some sort of form from September.


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## Salty seadog (30 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You wait till they lose that childhood innocence



Double like for that one.


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## Rickshaw Phil (30 May 2020)

As of yesterday I joined the testing stats. I can officially say I have tested negative.

I was selected at random a little while ago to help with research. Got sent a home testing kit and did my own swab which sounded pretty easy from the instructions, but wasn't.

Interesting to be involved but I hope not to have to do it again any time soon.


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## fossyant (30 May 2020)

My Uni has put a big hold on general spending and stopped staff PhD study time. This leaves more time that staff can spend supporting students. We will do some face to face, and each course will be very different. 

The future is very uncertain, and Uni's face a huge hole in funding. Manchester Uni has announced significant job losses. 

You are better off starting a course and getting on with it. What else will they do. There are no jobs.


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## gavgav (30 May 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> As of yesterday I joined the testing stats. I can officially say I have tested negative.
> 
> I was selected at random a little while ago for a test to help with research. Got sent a home testing kit and did my own swab which sounded pretty easy from the instructions, but wasn't.
> 
> Interesting to be involved but I hope not to have to do it again any time soon.


All very important stuff, we need as many people to be tested, as possible, to get better accuracy on numbers.


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## gavgav (30 May 2020)

fossyant said:


> We will be open for the new term but doing block teaching and modular. Classroom sizes/labs etc are a huge issue. Some staff not willing to work shifts - i.e. early opening for students to do lab work etc.
> 
> I saw a UUK paper last week, and in a bank of 4 desks, you can get just 1 member of staff. In a 2 x 6 banks, just 4 staff. My office is two finance, 2 student services, and 14 marketing. We will get 7 in the office max.


Based on those stats, my office normally has 28 in it, we have pods of 4, we will get 7! I think 14 could be done, at social distance, diagonally on the pods.......I expect to be working from home for many months, yet.


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## marinyork (30 May 2020)

gavgav said:


> Based on those stats, my office normally has 28 in it, we have pods of 4, we will get 7! I think 14 could be done, at social distance, diagonally on the pods.......I expect to be working from home for many months, yet.



Many academics have separate offices at my uni. Research students can be a bit of a mosh pit. Some offices are huge. 

The admin stadf though that is problematic though. There was already a rare positive confirmed case in a huge, mostly open office building before lockdown. App and contact tracing and social distancing needed.


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## DCLane (30 May 2020)

Just over 10 years ago we were moved from 1/2 person offices for everyone into a new building, all with large communal offices. They've realised the spacing means 2-3 people instead of 10-12 so will be working from home most of the time.

I won't be delivering large lectures, but am hoping to do some face-to-face seminars albeit with groups of 5-6 rather than 20-25. It'll probably mean a better student experience for those who are there. Lectures will be live streamed from home (and recorded) and they'll have to put up with the back of my wife's office as a backdrop. There's books on disease-related malnutrition, feeding the elderly and nutritional biochemistry rather than marketing texts.


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## Julia9054 (30 May 2020)

Woke up feeling really bloody miserable this morning. 
Cycled to York this afternoon. Stopped in Rufforth and had an ice lolly in a friend’s front garden. On to York where several food stalls are open selling takeaways. Had dhosa and treated to a couple of guys on piano and singing - free concert and really, really good.
Centre of York is so much more pleasant when it is not rammed full of people.
Feel so much better now.


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## Yellow Fang (31 May 2020)

My mother says her next door neighbour, who I have met several times, died of it. She was an old lady and very frail. I am not quite sure how she contracted the virus, possibly from her care worker.


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## Joey Shabadoo (31 May 2020)

My sister's a nursing assistant in a maternity unit. A couple of days ago, a lady came in for a Caesarean but she was in a right state. She was Turkish and deaf so had a signing interpreter with her. The nurses started to prep her and she was quite clearly terrified, eyes bulging out of her head and very agitated. So the nurses all took their masks off and she calmed down. Can you imagine being surrounded by strangers at such a time, scared, in pain and not able to see the smiles of reassurance, just staring eyes over masks?

Against all the rules but a touch of humanity I thought. 

The signing interpreter was fascinated by the whole thing. Usually called in for welfare issues or court cases, he'd never seen a caesarean and was engrossed by the process.


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## tom73 (1 Jun 2020)

1st we had Mrs 73 birthday in lockdown and today it's our wedding anniversary we normal go on holiday around this time as part of it. 
Well that's off too so she now working and i'm off later for a bike ride. 
So happy anniversary lucky it's not our 20th that's next year


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## Slick (1 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> 1st we had Mrs 73 birthday in lockdown and today it's our wedding anniversary we normal go on holiday around this time as part of it.
> Well that's off too so she now working and i'm off later for a bike ride.
> So happy anniversary lucky it's not our 20th that's next year


Myself and Mrs Slick will be celebrating 32 years together and 20 years married this year. We did get away at the start of the year, but I think any celebrations will be just the 2 of us this time round.


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## fossyant (1 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> Myself and Mrs Slick will be celebrating 32 years together and 20 years married this year. We did get away at the start of the year, but I think any celebrations will be just the 2 of us this time round.



My 25th wedding anniversary in August - hoping that we can at least get back to our caravan, but not holding out much luck (Welsh Govt). I can see out caravan site not issuing any sort of a refund, where others locally are doing so. The owner is a tight aris, and loves his top of the range 'Range Rover' and Boxter


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## Slick (1 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> My 25th wedding anniversary in August - hoping that we can at least get back to our caravan, but not holding out much luck (Welsh Govt). I can see out caravan site not issuing any sort of a refund, where others locally are doing so. The owner is a tight aris, and loves his top of the range 'Range Rover' and Boxter


I think anyone thinking of not offering a refund is going to work against them in the long run I reckon. Golf clubs are another example of this, but some genuinely simply can't afford a refund and if I'm honest, I don't particularly want a refund as I want to support them, even if they did get a 25k grant which I'm sure your park guy would have accessed also. Your man probably is a tight aris but at the very least he needs to offer owners something if he is genuine.


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## fossyant (1 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> I think anyone thinking of not offering a refund is going to work against them in the long run I reckon. Golf clubs are another example of this, but some genuinely simply can't afford a refund and if I'm honest, I don't particularly want a refund as I want to support them, even if they did get a 25k grant which I'm sure your park guy would have accessed also. Your man probably is a tight aris but at the very least he needs to offer owners something if he is genuine.



We will see - it's a small park, so doesn't have'facilities' that need to be run, staff furloughed etc. If he can come to say a half refund for time shut down, then that wouldn't be bad - He'd literally had £3.5k rent up front from all the owners.

Anyway, seeing loads of those Nox cartridges everywhere. Was out yesterday on the East side of Manchester in the hills - did 34 miles or so. Anywhere there was a 'view', then I kept seeing the canisters. Obviously folk out partying.


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## tyred (3 Jun 2020)

Latest advice is to stick to just one sexual partner. 
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-people-should-stick-18353455
I'd be happy to havejust one


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## Dave7 (3 Jun 2020)

tyred said:


> Latest advice is to stick to just one sexual partner.
> https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-people-should-stick-18353455
> I'd be happy to havejust one


Is that one as a time or one full stop ?


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## Dave7 (3 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> My 25th wedding anniversary in August - hoping that we can at least get back to our caravan, but not holding out much luck (Welsh Govt). I can see out caravan site not issuing any sort of a refund, where others locally are doing so. The owner is a tight aris, and loves his top of the range 'Range Rover' and Boxter


We had a static on Anglesey. A good site. No club or pool etc but well kept. Owner was nice but ruthless. We were discussing him t'other day and agreed there is absolutely no way he would refund anyone.
@Slick Our golf club has just reopened. We have paid 12 months but they have extended the year ending to May.


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## Slick (3 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> We had a static on Anglesey. A good site. No club or pool etc but well kept. Owner was nice but ruthless. We were discussing him t'other day and agreed there is absolutely no way he would refund anyone.
> @Slick Our golf club has just reopened. We have paid 12 months but they have extended the year ending to May.


That's good and pretty fair I reckon.


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## craigwend (3 Jun 2020)

Let's blame the rain for it all going wrong... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52911985


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## Slick (3 Jun 2020)

craigwend said:


> Let's blame the rain for it all going wrong...
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52911985


To be fair, he's just issuing a warning.


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## Accy cyclist (3 Jun 2020)

I'm absolutely bored out of my f..k..g head! Not just bored,but depressed too. I even got a text from my energy supplier today,after i'd queried my monthly payments,telling me i was owed £275 by them and even that didn't make me feel any better. I just looked at it and thought "Wow. Big f..k..g deal"! It's a dull grey evening. No gym,no pub absolutely feck all to do! I'm gonna drive to the cemetery soon and visit my dead relatives and friends. That's how bad it is now ffs!!


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## Accy cyclist (3 Jun 2020)

And another thing! I'm sick of putting the radio on and hearing quizzes! Every bloody night there's one on! Not only on the radio,but folk telling me how they do them online. There's only so many quizzes you can do before you start to hate them and i actually do like them,but only once a week in a pub. Not on the radio or online ffs!!


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## craigwend (3 Jun 2020)

Asymptomatic cases 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52912538

Speaking to some nurses I know they said that the figures equate similar in NHS staff figures in a random test in a Manchester hospital a month back , and newer random tests especially on wards with coronavirus, and (local /national tests) had found between 40-50% of staff asymptomatic


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## Unkraut (9 Jun 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm gonna drive to the cemetery soon ...


It occurred to me that at least there it will be possible to keep the 6 foot distancing rule ...


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## marinyork (9 Jun 2020)

The university announced massive cuts. They also have no PPE whatsoever as it was rightly donated to the NHS. Plans being made to get some of us back over the summer.


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## Bazzer (9 Jun 2020)

Child 2's attendance at a new college is in doubt. Numbers potentially being restricted, courses having to be restructured and with college concerns over accommodation, attendance as a day student isn't practical living over 300 miles from the college.


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## Joey Shabadoo (9 Jun 2020)

Wife's been told her shielding is to continue until the end of July. She's finding it pretty upsetting and had a teary moment yesterday because she so desperately wants to see and hug her grandchildren.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> The university announced massive cuts. They also have no PPE whatsoever as it was rightly donated to the NHS. Plans being made to get some of us back over the summer.



We've not had them yet, but there is 'provision' in the accounts. I'm expecting those nearing retirement will think ' I've had enough of the madness'. Us 'back office' staff are unlikely to be back until January so I need to gear my head up for this. I've asked that I'd like to pop into the office at least once a week - finding it difficult not meeting folk in person - would be nice to see a friendly face, even if for a chin wag. Missing out 'house services' staff - the cleaners, maintenance folk etc - always good for a chat.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

Same here with PPE - donated it to a Care Home, so we've got to buy new in our Health Faculty.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

Feeling a bit 'down' generally. Been very tired. Need to pop out on the bike, or may just go for a walk. I'm just seeing so much 'stupidity' with social distancing, you do think, fark it. We've been doing the staying away from people - I saw my parents for the first time last week - I was in my front garden and they were on the pavement - just handing over a birthday card - I miss going for a beer with my dad. 

Not happy we can't go to our caravan, that's dragging on, and we'd be still isolated from anyone - it's not looking likely any time soon as the Welsh Government has dug it's heals in, and TBH, the Welsh are openly racist to the English as it is.- ohh, let's all riot.  I can't see the 'locals' wanting us back - I think we'll let some other unfortunate English try getting to their van's first when we are allowed to.

Looks like most of the bike parks are going to go bust at this rate - they can't socially distance on the 'up lift' services. Won't affect me as I prefer natural trails and trail centres, but for the Gravity demons, the downhill venues aren't going to survive.


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## kingrollo (9 Jun 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Wife's been told her shielding is to continue until the end of July. She's finding it pretty upsetting and had a teary moment yesterday because she so desperately wants to see and hug her grandchildren.


FWIW - my GP told me that to sheild or not to sheild is a personal decision - it's not law.

And to sheild is a bloody big ask imo.


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## Joey Shabadoo (9 Jun 2020)

kingrollo said:


> FWIW - my GP told me that to sheild or not to sheild is a personal decision - it's not law.
> 
> And to sheild is a bloody big ask imo.


Yes, she's just scared. 

Our neighbour has had her grandchildren and extended family around almost every day of the lockdown which is particularly galling.


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## kingrollo (9 Jun 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Yes, she's just scared.
> 
> Our neighbour has had her grandchildren and extended family around almost every day of the lockdown which is particularly galling.



I shielded properly for around 3 weeks. I just couldn't do it after that - esp in a 3 bed house with 4 adults. I do go out but don't mix with anyone outside my household and try to avoid other people.


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

kingrollo said:


> FWIW - my GP told me that to sheild or not to sheild is a personal decision - it's not law.
> 
> And to sheild is a bloody big ask imo.



Yes I believe that's correct. Someone I know answered the phone to his Doctor to check he was getting on OK with his shielding - thing was he was out on his bike at the time😀


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

Also my mum's neighbor got a letter saying she should shield just the other week - ironically the day it was announced shielders could leave the house once a day.


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## steve292 (9 Jun 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Yes, she's just scared.
> 
> Our neighbour has had her grandchildren and extended family around almost every day of the lockdown which is particularly galling.


Have your grandkids and kids been following the advice? I would weigh up the + v the - and make a decision. FWIW, and I know everyones situation is different, my FIL has been sheilding as he has his problems. We have had him round today for a coffee in the back garden so he could see the kids and have a chat, and we have been round to his back garden to do likewise. We are creating our own bubble as far as we can, it's the only way forward we can see. A lot depends on how sensible people are to do this , but for us it seems workable.


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

A short meeting in the garden keeping a distance is going to be very low risk


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

I'm tempted to ride round to my folks, and take a few beers for me and my dad to sup on his decking in the back garden. PS - It's nearly all off road, so won't matter if I fall off on the way home.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

What are folk going to do who have a condition that means this virus is likely to kill them, long term ? MIL can't see us at all (nursing home) and I've two neighbours that haven't gone further than their front door - both would die from CV19. 

No wonder people are worried.


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Wife's been told her shielding is to continue until the end of July. She's finding it pretty upsetting and had a teary moment yesterday because she so desperately wants to see and hug her grandchildren.



It's difficult to weigh up the risk's mental health need's have to come into play too.
Meet up with good social distance and out doors is low risk. Wear face covering if you can that will help too.
As long as everyone understands why it has to different and how important it is to have like that.
My outlaws have met the grandkids a few times going that. As for hugging know it's not the same but they came up a something different they do shadow hugs.


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> I'm tempted to ride round to my folks, and take a few beers for me and my dad to sup on his decking in the back garden. PS - It's nearly all off road, so won't matter if I fall off on the way home.


 Ride out and a drink maybe just what you both need. You both will have to weigh up the risks. 
Depends on high risk he is as long you both stick to the rules which I don't think will be problem the risk is low. 
He can always stay well in side for a bit of extra comfort.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> Ride out and a drink maybe just what you both need. You both will have to weigh up the risks.
> Depends on high risk he is as long you both stick to the rules which I don't think will be problem the risk is low.
> He can always stay well in side for a bit of extra comfort.



My dad's not really at risk, fairly healthy, just the wrong age.


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> My dad's not really at risk, fairly healthy, just the wrong age.


Oh well the risk is low then i'd go for it if your both happy , don't make it a daily thing and don't have one too many


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

Went to see my parents at the weekend: they're on their own and haven't had visitors for months. And yes, we were outside the house and kept our distance.

Today however we've just had a second holiday cancelled; the first was cancelled in May for early July and they had only taken the deposit. The second was a replacement at Center Parcs and a refund of the full amount could take months.

Booked a third option instead at Forest Holidays for the same week but in North Yorks - hopefully that will happen! It's about the only thing I could find for the first week in July, which is the only available week for SWMBO this summer with her working on a Covid rehab ward. She needs a break away from everything after the trauma to date, with a lot more to come.


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> What are folk going to do who have a condition that means this virus is likely to kill them, long term ? MIL can't see us at all (nursing home) and I've two neighbours that haven't gone further than their front door - both would die from CV19.
> 
> No wonder people are worried.



Yes I recon my mum and dad are in the same boat. Haven't left the house but am planning to meet them in the garden so a short visit - but they live quite far away so a long drive for a short visit. Or a 200k bike ride which is another possibility.

I am also concerned if my kids are ever going back to school or if my son can start his A levels in September.


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Went to see my parents at the weekend: they're on their own and haven't had visitors for months. And yes, we were outside the house and kept our distance.
> 
> Today however we've just had a second holiday cancelled; the first was cancelled in May for early July and they had only taken the deposit. The second was a replacement at Center Parcs and a refund of the full amount could take months.
> 
> Booked a third option instead at Forest Holidays for the same week but in North Yorks - hopefully that will happen! It's about the only thing I could find for the first week in July, which is the only available week for SWMBO this summer with her working on a Covid rehab ward. She needs a break away from everything after the trauma to date, with a lot more to come.


 If you've never been it's a nice get away plenty to do on site some great walks. Hope you booked one with a hot tube


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> If you've never been it's a nice get away plenty to do on site some great walks. Hope you booked one with a hot tube



Yes and a bar-be-cue. It's the Keldy site as that was all we could get. If it happens we'll have days out and a surprise treat booked for her .


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jun 2020)

Starting to meet the odd friend for a beer. We take our own beer and a picnic. Ride to a village green to meet up somewhere. Each enjoy our own beer and a bit of food as a suitable distance apart but still able to talk and hear each other. Then we ride our separate ways home. Having the odd family zoom session, though zoom / video conferencing isn't my favourite.


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> Yes I recon my mum and dad are in the same boat. Haven't left the house but am planning to meet them in the garden so a short visit - but they live quite far away so a long drive for a short visit. Or a 200k bike ride which is another possibility.
> 
> I am also concerned if my kids are ever going back to school or if my son can start his A levels in September.



That was last weekend; 3 hours of driving for an hour's visit. 

My son's started his A-levels early from home. His school are planning for September but we're also set up for him learning from home if needed.


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## tom73 (9 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Yes and a bar-be-cue. It's the Keldy site as that was all we could get. If it happens we'll have days out and a surprise treat booked for her .


Nice part of the world all round know it well sadly yearly holiday is off this year now. 
If it's open the cafe near the long stay car park in Helmsley do great ice cream Sundays


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## lane (9 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> That was last weekend; 3 hours of driving for an hour's visit.
> 
> My son's started his A-levels early from home. His school are planning for September but we're also set up for him learning from home if needed.



I have been getting my son to do some work at home but in the circumstances he isn't very motivated. He has a good set up for working from home no problem there - better than mine!


----------



## Dave7 (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> Feeling a bit 'down' generally. Been very tired. Need to pop out on the bike, or may just go for a walk. I'm just seeing so much 'stupidity' with social distancing, you do think, fark it. We've been doing the staying away from people - I saw my parents for the first time last week - I was in my front garden and they were on the pavement - just handing over a birthday card - I miss going for a beer with my dad.
> 
> Not happy we can't go to our caravan, that's dragging on, and we'd be still isolated from anyone - it's not looking likely any time soon as the Welsh Government has dug it's heals in, and TBH, the Welsh are openly racist to the English as it is.- ohh, let's all riot.  I can't see the 'locals' wanting us back - I think we'll let some other unfortunate English try getting to their van's first when we are allowed


I agree that certain areas are openly anti English** but my gut feeling is that they will be be glad to see you back when this is over.
Just last year the Spanish were chanting go home Brit slogans......now they are complaining that we are not visiting.
**our van was on Anglesey. Some areas were very pleasant while some were very Welsh (which is good) but openly aggresive to English.


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## Dave7 (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> I'm tempted to ride round to my folks, and take a few beers for me and my dad to sup on his decking in the back garden. PS - It's nearly all off road, so won't matter if I fall off on the way home.


We had the family round for a BBQ last week......the day before the weather changed. 1st time since it all kicked off.
We sat well over 2 metres apart. I cooked and put it on a table to help themselves. Wine n beer were on the table. No probs.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I agree that certain areas are openly anti English** but my gut feeling is that they will be be glad to see you back when this is over.
> Just last year the Spanish were chanting go home Brit slogans......now they are complaining that we are not visiting.
> **our van was on Anglesey. Some areas were very pleasant while some were very Welsh (which is good) but openly aggresive to English.



I hope they want us back, that's where we spend most of our money - good for their economy.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I agree that certain areas are openly anti English** but my gut feeling is that they will be be glad to see you back when this is over.
> Just last year the Spanish were chanting go home Brit slogans......now they are complaining that we are not visiting.
> **our van was on Anglesey. Some areas were very pleasant while some were very Welsh (which is good) but openly aggresive to English.


I find it rather amusing when English people complain about racism from other countries.


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> I have been getting my son to do some work at home but in the circumstances he isn't very motivated. He has a good set up for working from home no problem there - better than mine!



I'm guessing it depends on what they're planning to do after A-levels, if they know.

My 15yo knows he needs to study hard if he's to get the 4 A-levels he's doing alongside racing. He'll need very high grades for either of his two university preferences - both near velodromes.


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## Dave7 (9 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I find it rather amusing when English people complain about racism from other countries.


If you refer to my comment and read it again.....you will see I was not complaining. Its just a fact.
I intensley hate what the "English" have done in history but that does not alter what I have found in certain parts of wales.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I find it rather amusing when English people complain about racism from other countries.



Certainly ironic. I'm astonished that no-one at all has been even slightly aggresive towards me in the last few years.


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## Rusty Nails (9 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> I agree that certain areas are openly anti English** but my gut feeling is that they will be be glad to see you back when this is over.
> Just last year the Spanish were chanting go home Brit slogans......now they are complaining that we are not visiting.
> **our van was on Anglesey. Some areas were very pleasant while some were very Welsh (which is good) but openly aggresive to English.



Don't think that they were openly aggressive (?) just to the English. Some can be like that to non Welsh speaking Welsh. (I know from experience).

Hasn't there been hostility to English visitors in English holiday areas such as in the Lake and Peak Districts and Cornwall?

Like it or not Wales and Scotland have devolved governments that have responsibility for health and coronavirus restrictions. The rules apply within those countries and not just to those visiting them from England. A friend of mine here in Cardiff cannot visit his caravan on the Gower Peninsula, and I am not allowed to visit friends and family in my home town 20 miles away (except if I cycle there, and that rules my wife out). Things are very strange for people who live along Offa's Dyke!

Personally I would prefer to see consistency in the regulations across the three countries, and an easing up of regulations wrt to staying in non-shared owner occupied caravans where social-distancing is easy, but we don't have that and have to respect the regulations in each country.

Nothing about today's situation across the UK is ideal.


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## marinyork (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> We've not had them yet, but there is 'provision' in the accounts. I'm expecting those nearing retirement will think ' I've had enough of the madness'. Us 'back office' staff are unlikely to be back until January so I need to gear my head up for this. I've asked that I'd like to pop into the office at least once a week - finding it difficult not meeting folk in person - would be nice to see a friendly face, even if for a chin wag. Missing out 'house services' staff - the cleaners, maintenance folk etc - always good for a chat.



It's in the accounts here, but there is a plan. Nine figure projected loss of income.

Others are worried about office space. Office space is going to get requisitioned.


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## Dave7 (9 Jun 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Don't think that they were openly aggressive (?) just to the English. Some can be like that to non Welsh speaking Welsh. (I know from experience).
> 
> Hasn't there been hostility to English visitors in English holiday areas such as in the Lake and Peak Districts and Cornwall?
> 
> ...


You may well have a point in that Devon and Cornwall have a thing about Grockles etc but my experience is that, what I call really Welsh areas, can be openly hostile.
In my job I travelled a lot and they are the only areas I felt threatened eg if I went into a pub on my own. Can't recall feeling that in any other places.
Not labelling people or places, its just my experience.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> I'm tempted to ride round to my folks, and take a few beers for me and my dad to sup on his decking in the back garden. PS - It's nearly all off road, so won't matter if I fall off on the way home.



Went out after finishing work, took 2 cans of Bud with me, and stopped off at my folks after a ride on the way home !


marinyork said:


> It's in the accounts here, but there is a plan. Nine figure projected loss of income.
> 
> Others are worried about office space. Office space is going to get requisitioned.



Yikes, over £100m. Lots of Overseas then.


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## Bazzer (9 Jun 2020)

As has been referred to upthread, the medicine of self isolation, can be worse than the cure. About a month into the lockdown, my sister, who was in self isolation because of our 89 year old Mum living with her, spoke of Mum's mental health deteriorating. (She already has early stage dementia). 
My sister and I took the view that Mum's mental health took priority and that her time of going for an accompanied walk would be planned. If she happened to catch the virus, (and my sister is scrupulous in cleaning deliveries to her house), then we would live with the consequences.
Our respective spouses were told of our decision, as were the grandchildren old enough to appreciate their Grandma's condition.


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> It's in the accounts here, but there is a plan. Nine figure projected loss of income.
> 
> Others are worried about office space. Office space is going to get requisitioned.



Probably for any university given the nature of teaching and the need for more space due to small teaching groups. I've been told this evening I will be working from home until September 2021 unless teaching.


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## Rusty Nails (9 Jun 2020)

Dave7 said:


> You may well have a point in that Devon and Cornwall have a thing about Grockles etc but my experience is that, what I call really Welsh areas, can be openly hostile.
> In my job I travelled a lot and they are the only areas I felt threatened eg if I went into a pub on my own. Can't recall feeling that in any other places.
> Not labelling people or places, its just my experience.



It is a pity when that sort of thing happens, but very often it's related to the language issue. In one of my previous jobs I had to regularly visit offices all across Wales and the only places I experienced outright rudeness because I couldn't speak the language (although I understood enough to catch bits of the stuff they were saying) was in parts of North Wales, both in the offices and the pubs.


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## marinyork (10 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Probably for any university given the nature of teaching and the need for more space due to small teaching groups. I've been told this evening I will be working from home until September 2021 unless teaching.



There are variations between universities. You probably work for a forward thinking one.

I'm focussing a bit less on academics than the system, many always had deals on the side for a bit of home working. A theme on the announcement was things may get back to normal in 2021/22. I think we'll be in a very deep recession and that academic year will be challenging.


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## MarkF (10 Jun 2020)

t


Bazzer said:


> As has been referred to upthread, the medicine of self isolation, can be worse than the cure. About a month into the lockdown, my sister, who was in self isolation because of our 89 year old Mum living with her, spoke of Mum's mental health deteriorating. (She already has early stage dementia).
> My sister and I took the view that Mum's mental health took priority and that her time of going for an accompanied walk would be planned. If she happened to catch the virus, (and my sister is scrupulous in cleaning deliveries to her house), then we would live with the consequences.
> Our respective spouses were told of our decision, as were the grandchildren old enough to appreciate their Grandma's condition.



Similarly, we had a family meeting last week, my mother and MIL and well into their 80's and were getting very down, they socialise, primarliy, with family and other local widows, also stuck at home. After a pretty brief discussion it was decided unaminously to go back to normal, so me, MrsF, BIL, SIL, MIL and all the grandchildren went to Whitby last Thursday, had a picnic on sea walls then walked to Saltwick bay, it was a lovely day out.


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## fossyant (10 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Probably for any university given the nature of teaching and the need for more space due to small teaching groups. I've been told this evening I will be working from home until September 2021 unless teaching.



Yikes. I'm missing real face to face contact with other staff, and the general 'buzz' of the place.


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## fossyant (10 Jun 2020)

We can't actually go and see MIL as the Nursing home is on lockdown, even going round the 'side' and waving at a window !


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## DCLane (10 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> Yikes. I'm missing real face to face contact with other staff, and the general 'buzz' of the place.



One thing that's helping is a weekly Microsoft Teams get-together, which we do at 10am on a Tuesday. It might be a suggestion if you work with a team of colleagues.

A couple of my subject group have declined to join, but that's their choice.


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## fossyant (10 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> One thing that's helping is a weekly Microsoft Teams get-together, which we do at 10am on a Tuesday. It might be a suggestion if you work with a team of colleagues.
> 
> A couple of my subject group have declined to join, but that's their choice.



We're trying to get together a 'skype' with the business partners and our assistants. We've got a regular informal get together with a smaller group, and another, but need to expand it to the wider team. We've also got 3 new people to the Uni on the Team. All are doing OK with it. I've suggested when we are allowed back in (i.e. buildings open) then we either meet up in the park or on the lawn outside one of the buildings - even if for a short time, before travelling home.


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## Rusty Nails (10 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> One thing that's helping is a weekly Microsoft Teams get-together, which we do at 10am on a Tuesday. It might be a suggestion if you work with a team of colleagues.
> 
> A couple of my subject group have declined to join, but that's their choice.



My son, an IT worker, has been working from home since the lockdown started. His team have a virtual tea-break via MS Teams at 3 pm every day. The only rule is nothing about work, just chat for 30 mins.


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## C R (10 Jun 2020)

My company makes software, and we have all been working from home since a week before the lock down started. We have a book club meeting weekly in teams, and a daily guess the object from a picture in teams as well. Keeps the social interaction going.


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## Rusty Nails (10 Jun 2020)

C R said:


> My company makes software, and we have all been working from home since a week before the lock down started. We have a book club meeting weekly in teams, and a daily guess the object from a picture in teams as well. Keeps the social interaction going.



That is very important for people who may have very little interaction with other people under the lockdown.

I wish I'd had shares in Zoom six months ago.


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## C R (10 Jun 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> That is very important for people who may have very little interaction with other people under the lockdown.
> 
> I wish I'd had shares in Zoom six months ago.


A few of the staff live on their own. Some are struggling with the lack of social contact, so these little things help quite a bit.


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## stowie (10 Jun 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I wish I'd had shares in Zoom six months ago.



To make you feel better, Zoom shares were around $68 beginning of Jan. Now they are over $200.


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## Rusty Nails (10 Jun 2020)

C R said:


> A few of the staff live on their own. Some are struggling with the lack of social contact, so these little things help quite a bit.



My son lives alone in a flat so life is quite tough at the moment for him.



stowie said:


> To make you feel better, Zoom shares were around $68 beginning of Jan. Now they are over $200.


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## stowie (10 Jun 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


>



P/E ratio of Zoom : over 1600
For comparison

Intel : 12
Facebook : 22
Nvidia : 67

I liked the commentary on one website which said the P/E ratio _could _indicate the company stock was overpriced!


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## Electric_Andy (10 Jun 2020)

We are now allowed to visit someone else's house from Saturday and stay over, which means me and my partner will be able to see each other properly for the first time since 24th March. This has cheered us up immensely


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## Milzy (10 Jun 2020)

Over 30 residents dead in a care home not far from me. They want more people in to get revenue. I know a care worker from there. I'm surprised it's not been on the news yet.


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## gavgav (10 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> Feeling a bit 'down' generally. Been very tired. Need to pop out on the bike, or may just go for a walk. I'm just seeing so much 'stupidity' with social distancing, you do think, fark it. We've been doing the staying away from people - I saw my parents for the first time last week - I was in my front garden and they were on the pavement - just handing over a birthday card - I miss going for a beer with my dad.
> 
> Not happy we can't go to our caravan, that's dragging on, and we'd be still isolated from anyone - it's not looking likely any time soon as the Welsh Government has dug it's heals in, and TBH, the Welsh are openly racist to the English as it is.- ohh, let's all riot.  I can't see the 'locals' wanting us back - I think we'll let some other unfortunate English try getting to their van's first when we are allowed to.
> 
> Looks like most of the bike parks are going to go bust at this rate - they can't socially distance on the 'up lift' services. Won't affect me as I prefer natural trails and trail centres, but for the Gravity demons, the downhill venues aren't going to survive.


I’m hopeful, as static caravan owners, that we may be allowed back into Wales, at some stage in July. I can’t see them allowing letting of site vans and restaurants, etc, won’t be open, but just to be able to stay somewhere other than home and to walk on the beach will be so nice. Keeping fingers crossed.


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## marinyork (11 Jun 2020)

It's nice hearing about the impact of support bubbles last night/today.

Heard from one person who is over the moon, although it seems a bit borderline whether their bubble is within the rules (spirit wise it is). Heard from two other acquaintances, one who is angry and upset and it's triggered off a lot of negative feelings about not having anyone to form a bubble with. Another is not really that happy for the same reasons using slightly more restrained language on social media.


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## Unkraut (14 Jun 2020)

Have just heard my cycling holiday with a load of Brits in Alsace in France has been cancelled. Disappointed but not surprised. It'll still be there next year. The most important thing is to keep the infection rate down, and a campsite with people from several European countries might not have been a good idea at present.

Would have been in August which doesn't leave enough time to be sure of how things will develop between now and then. Travelling both out of and back into Britain seems to be problematic. 

The worse thing is the last tour, the longest, was a chance to cross over the border into Germany. I've always wanted to do that ...


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## winjim (15 Jun 2020)

Antibody tests are go, and I've tested negative. We're all in proper surgical masks from today having previously been wearing type 1 cheapos. I don't know if this applies to working in the office as well as the lab, but considering that I'm married to the person at the next desk, I can't see that there would be much point.


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## Joey Shabadoo (16 Jun 2020)

Just booked flights to Spain for September. Dammit, I need something to look forward to and two weeks exploring on a scooter sounds good to me.


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## pawl (16 Jun 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just booked flights to Spain for September. Dammit, I need something to look forward to and two weeks exploring on a scooter sounds good to me.




It will make your leg ache 😰🦿🦿


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## pawl (16 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> It's nice hearing about the impact of support bubbles last night/today.
> 
> Heard from one person who is over the moon, although it seems a bit borderline whether their bubble is within the rules (spirit wise it is). Heard from two other acquaintances, one who is angry and upset and it's triggered off a lot of negative feelings about not having anyone to form a bubble with. Another is not really that happy for the same reasons using slightly more restrained language on social media.





Have just seen the mobs massing outside shops more of a hot air ballon than a bubble.It doesn’t surprise me that people are questioning the construction of the so called bubbles.


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## fossyant (16 Jun 2020)

Wouldn't mind getting a reliable anti-body test, as what I had late December was 'unusual' - we have an office in Wuhan, and another colleague near me has auto-immune issues, and she was right poorly over Christmas and new year.


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## matticus (19 Jun 2020)

How on earth are the Wales travel rules going to work?? It seems really contradictory. From the BBC:

"Wales' coronavirus travel restrictions could be lifted from 6 July so people can "*travel as far as they like for all purposes,*" First Minister Mark Drakeford has said.
Travel into and around Wales will be possible from that date, as long as coronavirus is still under control.
But rules that require people to stay in their local area, *within five miles as a guide,* will stay for now."

eh???


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## Mike_P (19 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> How on earth are the Wales travel rules going to work?? It seems really contradictory. From the BBC:
> 
> "Wales' coronavirus travel restrictions could be lifted from 6 July so people can "*travel as far as they like for all purposes,*" First Minister Mark Drakeford has said.
> Travel into and around Wales will be possible from that date, as long as coronavirus is still under control.
> ...


Seems clear enought to me, the 5 mile limit applies for now but possibly from July 6 no limit.


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## matticus (19 Jun 2020)

That's a bizarre bit of reporting then; I think it's totally unclear! Still, it apparently works for at least 2 forum readers 
(actually there was a Welsh MP on the radio earlier who saw it the same way as me. And she was Welsh. So that's an international view :P )


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> How on earth are the Wales travel rules going to work?? It seems really contradictory. From the BBC:
> 
> "Wales' coronavirus travel restrictions could be lifted from 6 July so people can "*travel as far as they like for all purposes,*" First Minister Mark Drakeford has said.
> Travel into and around Wales will be possible from that date, as long as coronavirus is still under control.
> ...



The latter rule you have linked to (well BBC reporting of it) clearly refers to two households meeting . Not meeting another household, no distance limit.


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## matticus (19 Jun 2020)

aha - that certainly seems to make more sense!


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## Rusty Nails (19 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> aha - that certainly seems to make more sense!



https://gov.wales/coronavirus-regulations-changes-monday-22-june

This explains the changes.


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## DCLane (19 Jun 2020)

Went into my university today for the first time in 3 months, to collect any items I'd need. It's likely we'll be based at home for the next 15-18 months, just going in for small group classes should they run from September. I could have one slot, which I've taken, apart from collecting my OH-specific chair which I can do next week.

I was the only member of staff there and it's hit me that it will be a long time before I see colleagues and others in person.


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## Slick (19 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Went into my university today for the first time in 3 months, to collect any items I'd need. It's likely we'll be based at home for the next 15-18 months, just going in for small group classes should they run from September. I could have one slot, which I've taken, apart from collecting my OH-specific chair which I can do next week.
> 
> I was the only member of staff there and it's hit me that it will be a long time before I see colleagues and others in person.


I've been going in twice a week to keep things ticking over and it's weird being in there yourself. Hopefully we won't be at home as long as you are planning but I have organised my first lesson online on Thursday which looks like the start of things to come.


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> I've been going in twice a week to keep things ticking over and it's weird being in there yourself. Hopefully we won't be at home as long as you are planning but I have organised my first lesson online on Thursday which looks like the start of things to come.


I'm currently teaching 6th form over Teams. It's awful. They have their cameras off so I can't see from their reactions whether I am going too fast or too slow, I'm sitting in my living room rabbiting on to a PowerPoint on my iPad. It is almost impossible to get any meaningful interaction with the class. I hate it. I also question it's benefit over providing recordings, professionally made videos etc.


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## tom73 (20 Jun 2020)

The OU have some some great stuff to get you use to teaching online. They are happy to help any education provider with how to do it. 
It's all about the right tools for the job. School ect have just not invested in staff or tool's for true online learning.


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

tom73 said:


> The OU have some some great stuff to get you use to teaching online. They are happy to help any education provider with how to do it.
> It's all about the right tools for the job. School ect have just not invested in staff or tool's for true online learning.


The main problem is the government not investing in the resources families have to access online learning.
I am incredibly fortunate. My school is an iPad school - all staff and students have iPads and we are used to using apps like Showbie for sharing resources with students. Students submit work online and we can mark and provide feedback on the iPad. Apart from the true live lessons element (which we are only doing with year 12) staff and students have not been scrabbling around attempting to learn a new technology in double quick time.
Contrast that with my husband’s school who have had to learn google classroom with no proper training. Lots of pupils are not engaging with the work because they are trying to access it on phones which are woefully not up to it and in many cases are sharing devices with siblings and parents. Their school have a consignment of laptops promised but not yet delivered. They are supposedly getting 10 for a school of 700 and have to decide which 10 kids qualify and which just have to manage.


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## DaveReading (20 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I'm currently teaching 6th form over Teams. It's awful. They have their cameras off so I can't see from their reactions whether I am going too fast or too slow.



Of course it's going to be awful. Why on earth do they have their cameras off ?

Do they conceal themselves when they're in the classroom ?


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## tom73 (20 Jun 2020)

Your right it's a massive problem we've not seen any of laptops at all add in that some are in the top 3% for poverty. 
it's not looking good too much of the lock down and the now the coming out of it. Is just been targeted on the real one in need most will catch up. But ones at the very bottom just have to hope they had little before all this as it was.


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Of course it's going to be awful. Why on earth do they have their cameras off ?
> 
> Do they conceal themselves when they're in the classroom ?


Safeguarding. Even if they had cameras on, i can only see 4 people at once on my screen (and one of them is me) and when I am sharing a PowerPoint, I can only see the PowerPoint


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...te-and-private-schools?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
An interesting article comparing Manchester Grammar with a nearby state secondary


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## Slick (20 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I'm currently teaching 6th form over Teams. It's awful. They have their cameras off so I can't see from their reactions whether I am going too fast or too slow, I'm sitting in my living room rabbiting on to a PowerPoint on my iPad. It is almost impossible to get any meaningful interaction with the class. I hate it. I also question it's benefit over providing recordings, professionally made videos etc.


That sounds awful, my only solace to your comments is that I'm delivering commercial training that the learner is paying for and can't get back to work until it's completed so they are desperate to get this done. That said, we will need to deal with what you describe when we return to apprenticeships but hopefully we will have overcome those issues by then. I know all the schools were given Teams, and we work quite a lot with the app for sharing and meetings but when it comes to delivering, zoom makes a difference and you can see everyone to check their reactions. Not a lot of help to you if you can't access it though.


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## tom73 (20 Jun 2020)

Teams and power point can't think of anything worse.


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## DaveReading (20 Jun 2020)

Interesting article here: https://www.teachertoolkit.co.uk/2020/03/29/zoom-safeguarding/

My own experience, as an adult learner on Zoom, is pretty positive. I've been studying Italian at the local college for the last 3 years in a smallish class (6-8 learners) and following the lockdown, lessons moved to online.

Other than not being able to pass the biscotti around, there's very little difference - if anything, we're more attentive in front of the laptop than we were in the classroom.

I appreciate, of course, that there are some considerations that apply more to school pupils than to adult learners.


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> That sounds awful, my only solace to your comments is that I'm delivering commercial training that the learner is paying for and can't get back to work until it's completed so they are desperate to get this done. That said, we will need to deal with what you describe when we return to apprenticeships but hopefully we will have overcome those issues by then. I know all the schools were given Teams, and we work quite a lot with the app for sharing and meetings but when it comes to delivering, zoom makes a difference and you can see everyone to check their reactions. Not a lot of help to you if you can't access it though.


My son is using zoom to access lectures/tutorials (university). It certainly has more useable features than Teams. I think most schools initially rejected zoom due to security concerns.
On zoom, i can get 9 people on my iPad screen at once. On his laptop, he can get the whole class and as they are adults, their cameras are on.


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## Slick (20 Jun 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Interesting article here: https://www.teachertoolkit.co.uk/2020/03/29/zoom-safeguarding/
> 
> My own experience, as an adult learner on Zoom, is pretty positive. I've been studying Italian at the local college for the last 3 years in a smallish class (6-8 learners) and following the lockdown, lessons moved to online.
> 
> ...


Huge difference between youths and adults, obviously not all but very much in general that shouldn't be underestimated.


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## lane (20 Jun 2020)

My wife has been teaching various ages, phone, teams* and email. The various problems with ICT and being fearful of falling foul of safegaurding issues, lack of support generally and specifically with ICT, she has worked vastly more hours than she is paid for. working all weekend on sorting out projected exam grades. I had to pop into work yesterday first time since lock down ...felt weird.

*not allowed to use Zoom - safegaurding


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## Mike_P (20 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Safeguarding. Even if they had cameras on, i can only see 4 people at once on my screen (and one of them is me) and when I am sharing a PowerPoint, I can only see the PowerPoint


Theres an update for Teams that allows for more people to be seen but obviously does not address the safeguarding issue. I understand anything that is said/shown is retained forever. The fact that when you share a program or a screen means you visually lose the audience confused me no end when it happened.


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Theres an update for Teams that allows for more people to be seen but obviously does not address the safeguarding issue. I understand anything that is said/shown is retained forever. The fact that when you share a program or a screen means you visually lose the audience confused me no end when it happened.


For safeguarding, there is a record function and we have to record any lesson or tutorial with students.


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jun 2020)

So, five members have had the virus. It would be nice to hear their experiences and if they have fully recovered yet.


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## Slick (20 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> So, five members have had the virus. It would be nice to hear their experiences and if they have fully recovered yet.


Everyone I know who gas ever had the sniffles anywhere between November last year and now think they have had it.


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## dodgy (20 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> So, five members have had the virus. It would be nice to hear their experiences and if they have fully recovered yet.



2.6% of respondents on this forum. That's way higher than the national average.


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## fossyant (20 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> Went into my university today for the first time in 3 months, to collect any items I'd need. It's likely we'll be based at home for the next 15-18 months, just going in for small group classes should they run from September. I could have one slot, which I've taken, apart from collecting my OH-specific chair which I can do next week.
> 
> I was the only member of staff there and it's hit me that it will be a long time before I see colleagues and others in person.



We're being allowed in to collect chairs/monitors at specific times/dates only. I'm OK at home and would rather not have another chair, plus I had a few spare monitors having bought 1 too many for my Zwift set up (bought 3 off ebay for £13 each - so had one spare). Going forward it sounds much like your Uni - only those that need to be in to teach in block units will be in, everything else will be from home if you can.


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## Smokin Joe (20 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> 2.6% of respondents on this forum. That's way higher than the national average.


2.6% of the small number of forum members who completed the poll. I doubt the true percentage is anything like that.


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## dodgy (20 Jun 2020)

Yeah true, just thought it interesting.


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## marinyork (20 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> 2.6% of respondents on this forum. That's way higher than the national average.



National average is 7%


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## dodgy (20 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> National average is 7%


I must be misunderstood . 7% of the country have been infected?


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## Julia9054 (20 Jun 2020)

Cycled into York today. It was like coronavirus never happened. Felt like a completely normal Saturday afternoon.


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## Mike_P (20 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Cycled into York today. It was like coronavirus never happened. Felt like a completely normal Saturday afternoon.


Thanks for the info, thats confirmed not using York for an ABC challenge.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Jun 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Cycled into York today. It was like coronavirus never happened. Felt like a completely normal Saturday afternoon.



Like that in many places today


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## marinyork (20 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> I must be misunderstood . 7% of the country have been infected?



7% of the UK population have been infected according to a large and staticially rigorous study by the Office of National statistics.

New infections each week a lot lower than 1% and total having it a lot lower than 1%.


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## VelvetUnderpants (20 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> So, five members have had the virus. It would be nice to hear their experiences and if they have fully recovered yet.



I am a 54 year old male and one of the members who had Covid 19 and have recovered. I caught it through an act of kindness.

A neighbour of mine who is a pensioner collapsed in our local supermarket back in April, he was taken to Sandwell Hospital where he had tests and they discovered he had an irregular heart beat, a few days later he was transfered to City Hospital where he had a pacemaker fitted, he was then sent home a few of days later. A week after returning home he rang me to say he had caught a taxi to his local Tesco Express to get some groceries, he returned to his flat and went to put the key in the door when he prompltly blacked out and fell backwards through the hedge and landed on his back with a huge thump. I suggested to him he needed to contact the hospital and in the mean time I should have the spare key to his flat incase he collapsed in the flat and could not get to the phone. He agreed to this and I collected the key from him at his front door keeping contact as minimal as possible.

The next day, 13/05, I decided to ring him in the morning. There was no answer, so I decided to go to his front door and ring his bell, once again there was no answer, I let myself in with the spare key and found him conscious but lying on his back in the living room. I promptly rang the paramedics who came very quickly and took him back to Sandwell A&E. At no point did I think to wear a mask or gloves, which I scrupulously had done up to this point.

Three days later I rang Sandwell and asked to speak to my neighbour. The sister came onto the phone and told me that he had fractured his neck in the fall and that I probably saved his life, she then went on to say that they had tested him as a matter of course for Covid 19 and that he was positive. I said he did not mention any symptoms to me and she said it appeared he was asymptomatic and that I needed to self isolate
I told my partner who informed work and had to self isolate as well. On Sunday 17th May I started to get a dry cough, on the Monday I woke up with awful aches in my hips and knees and a temperature of 37.6, this lasted for a couple of days before subsiding. On the Wednesday I lost my sense of taste and smell and started to feel mildly breathless with a sore throat, this continued until Tuesday 26th, when my breathing improved and my sore throat disappeared, I had a mild cough still.

On the Thursday 28th, I did an incredibly dumb thing, I love running and decided to go for a run. Instead of going for a quick run around the block, muggins went for a 50 minute run. I actually felt fine until the following morning when the aches came back and my temperature went up again to 37.6. Luckily everything settled after a couple of days. I regained my taste and smell after a couple of weeks and it took another week for the cough to completely go.

I am running and cycling again after a two week rest from the first attempt and now feel absolutely fine.

On reflection I made some stupid errors, I had masks and disposable gloves in my flat, I should have worn them when I entered my neighbours premises, I should not have assumed he was infection free, especially as he had not long come out of hospital. I did not pay enough respect to how virilent this virus is, going for a run 12 days after initial symptoms probably compromised my immune system and allowed the virus a foothold for another couple of days.

Luckily I am not overweight, as it appears to increase ones chances of a more severe outcome and I do not have any underlying health issues. Neverless I feel very fortunate to have come out of this unscathed, it could so easily have turned out differently.

Do not underestimate this virus it is nothing like the flu and do not assume others are infection free, you simply do not know. Wear a mask and social distance and regularly wash your hands.


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## dodgy (21 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> 7% of the UK population have been infected according to a large and staticially rigorous study by the Office of National statistics.
> 
> New infections each week a lot lower than 1% and total having it a lot lower than 1%.



I must be thick, honestly, I'm not being combative (there's enough of that on this forum of late as it is ).
But this ONS piece talks about rates more like 0.27% in May, where are you getting 7% from? If 7% was true, there would have been around 4.5 million infections across the UK.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...scovid19infectionsurveypilot/england14may2020


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## brodiej (21 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> I must be thick, honestly, I'm not being combative (there's enough of that on this forum of late as it is ).
> But this ONS piece talks about rates more like 0.27% in May, where are you getting 7% from? If 7% was true, there would have been around 4.5 million infections across the UK.
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...scovid19infectionsurveypilot/england14may2020



The 0.27% is how many had active covid at that point
The survey here
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eypilot/28may2020#antibody-tests-for-covid-19

says 6.8% had antibodies- ie have had the infection


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## dodgy (21 Jun 2020)

Aha! Thanks! Amazing, I still don't know any family, friends or workmates who have had (knowingly).
We're going to carry on as if the lockdown was still in place until Christmas probably. I do like a pint in a pub, but that can wait, I just hope there are pubs to go back to when we're ready.


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## craigwend (21 Jun 2020)

5% estimate in this article, so not that far off, and possible second wave

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53113785


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## AuroraSaab (21 Jun 2020)

Here in Manchester it seems like it's back to normal. No staff on the door at Asda now so no limit to numbers. Hand gel and wipes for trolleys available but everybody ignoring safe distancing and the one way system. Car parks at the retail parks all packed and traffic back to normal - which is a shame as I was enjoying the empty streets on my bike.

I live near a care home and the number of ambulances turning up there, and the undertaker vans, is quite sobering. It might not all be covid related but it does make you think. Other than grocery shopping, I won't be rushing out to the shops anytime soon.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jun 2020)

I've moaned about them before and i'm going to do it again! The teaching unions are at it again,telling the government,teachers,parents and pupils that it's not safe to go back,not even in September! Nice isn't it when they're well funded by the taxpayer,so why would they want to go back when they're getting 100% of their wages for doing bugger all! *IF* the schools do reopen in September we'll have had nearly 6 months of this! Are teachers keeping out of supermarkets or not going on holiday to avoid C19? No they are not,so why can't they get back to doing what they are well paid to do and that's teach. The police must be sick of it, as these brats being off is leading to increased yobbery! Not to mention the parents who're having to either find child minders for the younger children,or put up with anti-social behaviour at home off the older ones! Teachers,you've had your nice long holiday,please at least go back in September.....after another 6 weeks of taxpayer funded holidays!!


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## steve292 (23 Jun 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Nice isn't it when they're well funded by the taxpayer,so why would they want to go back when they're getting 100% of their wages for doing bugger all! *I*


Know that for certain do you?


Accy cyclist said:


> Teachers,you've had your nice long holiday,please at least go back in September.....after another 6 weeks of taxpayer funded holidays


Can you back that up? Or is that just another quote from the Mail?


Accy cyclist said:


> The police must be sick of it, as these brats being off is leading to increased yobbery!


What has that got to do with the Schools please?


Accy cyclist said:


> Not to mention the parents who're having to either find child minders for the younger children,or put up with anti-social behaviour at home off the older ones!


Schools are places to learn, not child care providers, I hope that helps.


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## dodgy (23 Jun 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've moaned about them before and i'm going to do it again! The teaching unions are at it again,telling the government,teachers,parents and pupils that it's not safe to go back,not even in September! Nice isn't it when they're well funded by the taxpayer,so why would they want to go back when they're getting 100% of their wages for doing bugger all! *IF* the schools do reopen in September we'll have had nearly 6 months of this! Are teachers keeping out of supermarkets or not going on holiday to avoid C19? No they are not,so why can't they get back to doing what they are well paid to do and that's teach. The police must be sick of it, as these brats being off is leading to increased yobbery! Not to mention the parents who're having to either find child minders for the younger children,or put up with anti-social behaviour at home off the older ones! Teachers,you've had your nice long holiday,please at least go back in September.....after another 6 weeks of taxpayer funded holidays!!



Oh mate.


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## DCLane (23 Jun 2020)

@Accy cyclist - most teachers have been doing significant, and in my case most evenings and weekends, unpaid additional time supporting learners remotely.

I'm at a university but my son's school has set up an MS Teams learning site for all of the pupils. It takes much longer to deliver classes / sessions online and then mark work online evenings/weekends.


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## fossyant (23 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> @Accy cyclist - most teachers have been doing significant, and in my case most evenings and weekends, unpaid additional time supporting learners remotely.
> 
> I'm at a university but my son's school has set up an MS Teams learning site for all of the pupils. It takes much longer to deliver classes / sessions online and then mark work online evenings/weekends.
> 
> Please don't comment with such rubbish unless you have ACTUALLY DONE THE JOB!!!!



This in spades. Accy you haven't a clue what's going on. Some schools are crap - I have a colleague whose kids go to a posh school in a posh area, and the school is doing nothing. The mainstream schools are working very hard.

If you've had your own kids, you'll know they are a germ magnet, especially from nursery age - this is where you'e got to be careful giving the virus to at risk teachers, or their family, and also other families. It will spread.

Teachers haven't had a holiday, and nor have lecturers or tutors. They are working from home in difficult conditions. It's shoot working from home for 4 months solid. Some folk are terribly worried they won't have a job unless there is a vaccine due to health conditions. It's a mess.


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## fossyant (23 Jun 2020)

Accy you are retired - this trying to go back to work and stay safe is a massive worry. I can see many of my colleagues taking early retirement with this situation. Other than staying healthy and safe, retired folk haven't many more financial worries in this situation (other than investments dropping). If you are working, trying to do your job whilst exposing others in your family to risk is a worry. I've only seen my parents twice in lockdown, and that was in the last week - once in their garden, and once at the door to drop off a father's day present. We haven't seen MIL for over 4 months as she is locked down in a nursing home. I don't go near my parents, just in case I'm carrying something.


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## Rusty Nails (25 Jun 2020)

Since the lockdown the community cycle workshop I volunteer at has stopped volunteers going in. Today they phoned me and said that, as of next week, they are allowing one volunteer a day in the workshop as that can easily be managed under the 2m distancing (Wales) rules.

I am going in on Tuesdays. Looking forward to breaking the current monotony.


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## woodbutcher (26 Jun 2020)

Ok so l live in France not England and l haven't been to the Uk for more than two years so l really have no first hand experience of the mood in the country. So l was amazed and frankly incredulous when l saw photographs of the beaches in Dorset crowded with people. My first reaction was oh yeah, photoshopped until l read the accompanying article . Can anyone explain what the hell is going on because l have a hard time trying to convince French friends that its ok if the Brits descend on the beaches here once our international borders open next month


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## DCLane (26 Jun 2020)

@woodbutcher - as with anywhere there's stupid, selfish individuals who think laws don't apply to them.


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## woodbutcher (26 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> @woodbutcher - as with anywhere there's stupid, selfish individuals who think laws don't apply to them.


True, but it seems strange that Dorset is so attractive to large numbers of them from all over the country .


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## dodgy (26 Jun 2020)

I don't know a single person who would even think of partaking in what happened yesterday. As expected, a few interviews with the beachgoers unearthed the usual knuckle draggers ("we fort we wud be da only onez ere innit"). So many bellies, shaved heads and vests.
Yuk.


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## Mugshot (26 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> So many bellies, shaved heads and vests.


Sounds like a FNRTTC!


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## matticus (26 Jun 2020)

DCLane said:


> @woodbutcher - as with anywhere there's stupid, selfish individuals who think laws don't apply to them.


The french have generally made a virtue out of "laws not applying to them".

(I should add that I haven't gone looking for coverage, so I have *NO* idea of how well the French have obeyed their restrictions. Theirs were very different - much harsher initially - and of course the gendarmes carry guns in the street as a matter of course... )


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## matticus (26 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> I don't know a single person who would even think of partaking in what happened yesterday. As expected, a few interviews with the beachgoers unearthed the usual knuckle draggers ("we fort we wud be da only onez ere innit"). So many bellies, shaved heads and vests.
> Yuk.


The frustrating thing is that it seems so easy to have avoided this; if I was the sort to love toasting on a busy Dorset beach, I would have headed down there with some caution. If I found hordes already there, I'd just come home again, or go to a quieter park or summat! 
There were many british beaches that DID have sensible numbers on them.

A couple of boys-in-blue turning folks away once it got busy would have solved it too - wouldn't it? :-/


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## woodbutcher (26 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> The french have generally made a virtue out of "laws not applying to them".
> 
> (I should add that I haven't gone looking for coverage, so I have *NO* idea of how well the French have obeyed their restrictions. Theirs were very different - much harsher initially - and of course the gendarmes carry guns in the street as a matter of course... )


Not going to harp on about this but since l live in France and obviously l can only observe what happens in my area but yes the restrictions were comprehensive and people stuck to them because they were sensible and we were given clear instructions about what we could or could not do. And yes the police carry guns and yes l was stopped when driving to take my dog for treatment at the vets. As it happened l had not filled out my reason for travel paperwork correctly but the police helped with that and off l went . Just one small example of the way things are !


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## vickster (26 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> I don't know a single person who would even think of partaking in what happened yesterday. As expected, a few interviews with the beachgoers unearthed the usual knuckle draggers ("we fort we wud be da only onez ere innit"). So many bellies, shaved heads and vests.
> Yuk.


Lord...and I thought I was a snob!


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## dodgy (26 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Lord...and I thought I was a snob!


Fair one.


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## woodbutcher (26 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Lord...and I thought I was a snob!


s.n.o.b. "surely not old boy"


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## vickster (26 Jun 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> s.n.o.b. "surely not old boy"


No, definitely not for a very good reason, well two actually ...


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## Rusty Nails (26 Jun 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> Not going to harp on about this but since l live in France and obviously l can only observe what happens in my area but yes the restrictions were comprehensive and people stuck to them because they were sensible and we were given clear instructions about what we could or could not do. And yes the police carry guns and yes l was stopped when driving to take my dog for treatment at the vets. As it happened l had not filled out my reason for travel paperwork correctly but the police helped with that and off l went . Just one small example of the way things are !



The police are very helpful with travel arrangements under lockdown in the UK as well.

Just ask Dominic Cummings.


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## winjim (27 Jun 2020)

Had my screening interview for the vaccine trial yesterday, so next week I'll be vaccinated against... something.


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## marinyork (27 Jun 2020)

winjim said:


> Had my screening interview for the vaccine trial yesterday, so next week I'll be vaccinated against... something.



Imperial, Oxford or other?


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jun 2020)

winjim said:


> Had my screening interview for the vaccine trial yesterday, so next week I'll be vaccinated against... something.



Against getting sunburnt on Bournemouth beach?


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## marinyork (27 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Against getting sunburnt on Bournemouth beach?



Biggest risk to the people of the UK at the moment.


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## winjim (27 Jun 2020)

marinyork said:


> Imperial, Oxford or other?


Oxford - ChAdOx1 nCoV19 trial


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jun 2020)

winjim said:


> Oxford - ChAdOx1 nCoV19 trial



Do you know which stage of the trial you are getting involved with?


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## winjim (27 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Do you know which stage of the trial you are getting involved with?


It's this bit. Group 4 or 6 I think.
https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/participate-sheffield

Safety and efficacy in healthy volunteers against a meningitis vaccine control. Vaccine dose next week, then weekly nasal swab for PCR and three-monthly antibody testing.


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## marinyork (27 Jun 2020)

Not that it's the most important thing in the world, but interesting to me at least.

Gyms can't open up 4th July, but my small(ish) gym has taken the decision to completely get rid of groups. So it will be personal trainers with 1s and 2s and that's it. No gym classes at all, layout downstairs changed. Although it sounds like the martial arts/classes side will remain (however that works???? especially as they generally have closer physical contact WTF???). 

I can't see how that'd end up viable for leasing out to personal trainers, I reckon it'll close. 

PT sounded like they were happy to be out of the rat race and travel, but they didn't actually say that.


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## Andy in Germany (29 Jun 2020)

Work is now largely back to normal after a bit if a scare involving clients in a residential home; one of the clients tested positive and the home went into immediate quarantine for two weeks. Now all are declared healthy and we just have to keep people 2m apart as much as is practical and in theory keep people wearing masks but that isn't always working as some of the clients don't understand why...


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## winjim (29 Jun 2020)

Henry's back in the news...


View: https://twitter.com/cycleboost/status/1277569545587359747?s=19


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## fossyant (30 Jun 2020)

Any of you Locked down again in Leicester ?


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## winjim (2 Jul 2020)

Right, I've had my vaccine, whatever it is. They took some more blood for antibody testing and genetics, and I got an unexpected extra swab up my nose, something to do with monitoring my mucus. They gave me my own little thermometer and a set of swabs for weekly PCR testing. Back in a month's time for more antibody tests and that's it for now. Unless I get ill in which case I've got a special number to ring because for some reason they think that it might be important for them to know.

Oh, and they gave me a sheet warning me not to say too much about it on social media...


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## DaveReading (2 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> Oh, and they gave me a sheet warning me not to say too much about it on social media...



That struck me as rather an unkind thing to say, until I realised that you really did mean "sheet".


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## marinyork (4 Jul 2020)

I don't know what's come over my clinically extremely vulnerable parent but they've suddenly had a clock go off in their head saying it's July and started going out of the house, planning for a model railway exhibition visit, popping into places and won't have a bit of it about waiting till August.

The other parent who is also supposed to stay in is fine, but has decided they may want to go to a restaurant and a church service, although I think these are weeks away. They seem to have been told something about church services and no singing which they don't understand.


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## fossyant (4 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> I don't know what's come over my clinically extremely vulnerable parent but they've suddenly had a clock go off in their head saying it's July and started going out of the house, planning for a model railway exhibition visit, popping into places and won't have a bit of it about waiting till August.
> 
> The other parent who is also supposed to stay in is fine, but has decided they may want to go to a restaurant and a church service, although I think these are weeks away. They seem to have been told something about church services and no singing which they don't understand.



 oh dear !


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## fossyant (4 Jul 2020)

Our MIL is in fine fettle in the Nursing Home. Keeps asking for us to drop some Brandy minitures off. Not so easy as the last time I found her some was a bit of treasure hunt, finlly finding some in a local wine merchants.


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## vickster (4 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> Our MIL is in fine fettle in the Nursing Home. Keeps asking for us to drop some Brandy minitures off. Not so easy as the last time I found her some was a bit of treasure hunt, finlly finding some in a local wine merchants.


Corner shops can be a good source of miniatures  (having bought brandy to flame the Xmas pud)


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## Julia9054 (4 Jul 2020)

My mum wants me to tell her if I think it’s ok for her to go and do her own shopping now. How the hell do I know? I’ve lost all ability to properly risk assess anything


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## marinyork (4 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> oh dear !



It's the 4th today. It wasn't even the 4th, it was pretty much 1st July.

Oh yeah they want a plumber for a minor job even though I said do you not want to leave that till August.

The restaurant one I did make some progress on as I explained it's probably not going to be the same experience, that although that one's quite interesting from physical distancing as it would be able to play around with space it's badly ventilated so in my books evens the risk back up. I have just checked and damn the thing is open today (with reduced hours), but I've not told them that yet.

One place I researched for some other people that I may attend a couple of months from now only lets people in who book who are in the same strict social bubble which means none of that. One of the favourite pubs has closed for good.

If I could only get them doing walks!


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## Unkraut (7 Jul 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> My mum wants me to tell her if I think it’s ok for her to go and do her own shopping now. How the hell do I know? I’ve lost all ability to properly risk assess anything


The received wisdom here is that shopping in bigger shops where distancing is possible entails a negligible risk. This is why the requirement to wear masks in shops here hasn't gone down well, although imo reducing a very small risk even further isn't a bad thing. There is agitation to turn the requirement into a recommendation.

Small shops getting crowded isn't so clever, but shops who limit numbers inside can get round this.

My son had a blood test a few days ago - nothing to do with corona. He went to get the results a couple of days later. The doctors don't like anyone actually visiting the surgery unless essential, so they lowered the results down in a basket from the balcony!


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## Andy in Germany (7 Jul 2020)

Unkraut said:


> My son had a blood test a few days ago - nothing to do with corona. He went to get the results a couple of days later. The doctors don't like anyone actually visiting the surgery unless essential, so they lowered the results down in a basket from the balcony!



A typically German response: slightly eccentric but logical, and of course involves some kind of engineering...


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## marinyork (8 Jul 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The received wisdom here is that shopping in bigger shops where distancing is possible entails a negligible risk. This is why the requirement to wear masks in shops here hasn't gone down well, although imo reducing a very small risk even further isn't a bad thing. There is agitation to turn the requirement into a recommendation.



The risk in terms of UK shopping is patterns. Before covid-19 some went food shopping literally every day and may have even gone to 2 different shops. This can be applicable to parts of the groups quite at risk e.g. over 70s.

That's quite different from someone who shops once a week.

Ventilation which is a hot topic is one that varies enormously in shops. It is true that not only can there be space in larger shops, but better ventilation and in some shops almost non-existent circulation in the sense of the virus. The reports yesterday on coverings reckoned face coverings in the UK at their zenith in April were only 25%, compared to much higher ones in other nearby countries.

I wouldn't personally call a large shop a negligible risk as it's still indoors, but if there's space and ventilation and time limited it'll be small. The UK government and advisors seem to put a lot of stock into this Japanese study.

The UK policy seems to be pubs, schools and jolly holidays. There's no joined up public health narrative.


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## matticus (8 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> The UK policy seems to be pubs, schools and jolly holidays. There's no joined up public health narrative.


In a country with such a thing, alcohol would be banned (or have some tricksy daily ration), refined sugars too, and we'd have compulsory exercise regimes. You know this won't happen! So why be surprised that pandemic control isn't entirely consistent?


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## winjim (8 Jul 2020)

matticus said:


> In a country with such a thing, alcohol would be banned (or have some tricksy daily ration), refined sugars too, and we'd have compulsory exercise regimes. You know this won't happen! So why be surprised that pandemic control isn't entirely consistent?


Consumption of alcohol and refined sugar are both discouraged, and gym membership and cycling are encouraged, through the tax system.


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## lane (8 Jul 2020)

Secondary school will effectively have no social distancing at all when they open. Given emerging evidence on the role played by airborne transmission this must present quite a risk. My children's school has a strict policy the no one can wear masks in school! Although must wear one on the bus to school. Not really joined up as far as i can see.


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## matticus (8 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> Consumption of alcohol and refined sugar are both discouraged, and gym membership and cycling are encouraged, through the tax system.


But as you know, alcohol is - and always will be a - a big business in the UK, and our government will support it forever more (partly due to the taxes of course). That hasn't changed under a pandemic.

The simpler truth is that a health-conscious nation would clamp down properly on booze - with the current taxes, even the poor can drink themselves to death. Do you think "discouragement" is working?


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## marinyork (8 Jul 2020)

matticus said:


> But as you know, alcohol is - and always will be a - a big business in the UK, and our government will support it forever more (partly due to the taxes of course). That hasn't changed under a pandemic.
> 
> The simpler truth is that a health-conscious nation would clamp down properly on booze - with the current taxes, even the poor can drink themselves to death. Do you think "discouragement" is working?



By contrast coronavirus is of no use to anyone.

The only people who would even vaguely regard coronavirus as useful would be the subset of individuals who are on furlough and loving it and not had any difficult household circumstances.

So there is motivation and an unquestionable need for a public health message.


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## matticus (8 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> The UK policy seems to be *pubs*, schools and jolly holidays. There's no joined up public health narrative.


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## marinyork (8 Jul 2020)

Pubs is not a public health message.


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## matticus (8 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> Pubs is not a public health message.


I agree!!!

But it never has been - that's my point. HM Gov has always supported UK Booze drinkers. It's always been bad for us - both for the individuals' health, and to society (what with violence and cost to NHS) - just as packing pubs with drunks is bad under a pandemic.


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## gavgav (8 Jul 2020)

I had the Antibody Test done through work (NHS) yesterday and it’s come back as “not detected” so I’ve avoided the bugger so far. Hoping it stays that way!


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## C R (8 Jul 2020)

gavgav said:


> I had the Antibody Test done through work (NHS) yesterday and it’s come back as “not detected” so I’ve avoided the bugger so far. Hoping it stays that way!


I'm guessing that is the case for the vast majority. There's a paper just published with research done in Spain, where even in the most affected areas antibody positives are only about 5% of the population.


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## lane (9 Jul 2020)

Yes but also some recent research that asymptomatic cases are not showing positive through there is evidence that they are likely to have some immunity. Estimates of the % of asymptomatic cases vary quite widely but it seems accepted that they are significant, so in the UK where the % of positive antibody tests was around 7% on average actual numbers infected could easily by over 10% and possibly quite a bit over.


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## VelvetUnderpants (9 Jul 2020)

This is one strange virus. I became infected with Covid back in mid May, it took about two weeks to recover from the initial infection, however since then my lungs have never felt 100% I have never completely shook of my cough, it comes and goes, if I eat spicy food or vinegar it triggers coughing. Also on two occasions I have found after exertion i.e. running, for two or three days afterwards I get severe muscle aches, and compete exhaustion, my cough deteriorates as well, then it just goes and I am back to 'normal'. I have spoken to my GP and he has said he is seeing patients who are having waves of exhaustion weeks or even months after recovery. 

It's frustrating that my recovery is a bit start stop, but at least I am here to tell the tale.


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## cyberknight (10 Jul 2020)

Club rides start again this weekend and n+1 so about more cheerful,still have boughts where I just feel meh depending on how mini CK is behaving


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## marinyork (10 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> Yes but also some recent research that asymptomatic cases are not showing positive through there is evidence that they are likely to have some immunity. Estimates of the % of asymptomatic cases vary quite widely but it seems accepted that they are significant, so in the UK where the % of positive antibody tests was around 7% on average actual numbers infected could easily by over 10% and possibly quite a bit over.



Asymptomatic cases are 71% - source ONS.

There are studies elsewhere in the world that suggest those that have had the virus may be twice those who are antibody positive.

It still isn't good news. 15% is still miles away from the 60 to 80% herd immunity needed to dampen the virus significantly.


----------



## lane (10 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> Asymptomatic cases are 71% - source ONS.
> 
> There are studies elsewhere in the world that suggest those that have had the virus may be twice those who are antibody positive.
> 
> It still isn't good news. 15% is still miles away from the 60 to 80% herd immunity needed to dampen the virus significantly.



I suppose it is good news in the sense that the death rate is possibly a lot lower than originally suggested - could be 0.3% as opposed to 1%? Hopefully heard immunity will arrive via a vaccine rather than people being infected - at least in this county. 

If 15% of people have been infected (could even be 21% if 3*7%?) I presume it will be one of the things that helps reduce the R rate alongside social distancing and track and trace?

What is your view on a second wave now - I know previously you were convinced we would get one?


----------



## C R (10 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> I suppose it is good news in the sense that the death rate is possibly a lot lower than originally suggested - could be 0.3% as opposed to 1%? Hopefully heard immunity will arrive via a vaccine rather than people being infected - at least in this county.
> 
> If 15% of people have been infected (could even be 21% if 3*7%?) I presume it will be one of the things that helps reduce the R rate alongside social distancing and track and trace?
> 
> What is your view on a second wave now - I know previously you were convinced we would get one?


On the other hand, using optimistic figures for the number of antibody positives and the number of deaths, we would need 75 ×(40000/15) = 200000 deaths to achieve 75% antibody positives, and that assuming a purely linear relationship between number of deaths and percentage of people antibody positive, which it won't be. Also, assumes that being antibody positive is the same as being immune, which is not clear to be the case.

Given the course we are taking, and seeing what is happening in the US, the second wave is inevitable.


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## marinyork (10 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> I suppose it is good news in the sense that the death rate is possibly a lot lower than originally suggested - could be 0.3% as opposed to 1%? Hopefully heard immunity will arrive via a vaccine rather than people being infected - at least in this county.
> 
> If 15% of people have been infected (could even be 21% if 3*7%?) I presume it will be one of the things that helps reduce the R rate alongside social distancing and track and trace?
> 
> What is your view on a second wave now - I know previously you were convinced we would get one?



The problem with writing stuff on this thread is there are a lot of people cooped up at home worrying and for other people.

The death rate could be as low as 0.3%, that's been suggested in some small selection of countries. Given the side effects, a lower death rate would be good, but in such a contagious virus belting around the planet that's going to be 0.3%+ of a very large number . If it's even that small. It's generally expected to be 1% though. Recent comments on the vaccine from the person coordinating the UK's approach was that January 2020 was likely to be the earliest, the oxford vaccine which one member on here has had was ahead in time of the others.

There has already arguably been a second wave in Leicester, bits of Spain, South Korea, Singapore, Melbourne, Beijing, Iran, US. It depends what you call a second wave. Scarily enough even for things like Iran people are quibbling over whether that's a second wave. Vastly bigger ones are possible.

My view on what you'd call a second wave is the figures from the ONS last week were very promising, so over the summer virus levels may generally be low with localised outbreaks and restrictions. From September onwards when people start to spend more time indoors I have not heard that much from people that know what they are talking about saying that from then on is the risk of it building, perhaps with a large peak between November and February. Scenarios presented previously was a large second wave immediately, localised outbreaks or a big wave in the winter. Evidence elsewhere couple with what virologists have said is that it's 1-2 months circulating in a place pretty much unhindered before you get gigantic explosive outbreaks without superspreading events.

It's early on, we have a lot of summer to go.

General developments that point to second waves breaking out all over the world:-

It's wildly out of control in South America and Africa
countries that know what they are doing are having large localised outbreaks in dense housing/factories
we're still stuck with nose job PCR with no major tech breakthroughs.
Bad news on the natural R being 4.0 and asymptomatic cases 71%
Tiny percentages of many populations having had the virus/antibody positive.
Risk of indoor transmission now believed to be 19x higher than outside (which hints at some of the things discussed the last week or so on here)


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## lane (10 Jul 2020)

I suppose in Leicester at least it has been identified and lock down before it has got completely out of hand. At least that is a better scenario than we had back in March. We seem to have much more idea of what is happening than we did in March although no doubt much less than would be ideal.


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## marinyork (10 Jul 2020)

P.S. try to enjoy the summer lane. 

One of my friend's view who doesn't take this seriously is that you have July and August and whilst not going out doing silly high risk things, might as well enjoy the summer as a second wave's coming in the autumn/winter. I'm not sure that's a helpful view.


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## marinyork (10 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> I suppose in Leicester at least it has been identified and lock down before it has got completely out of hand. At least that is a better scenario than we had back in March. We seem to have much more idea of what is happening than we did in March although no doubt much less than would be ideal.



Leicester numbers are coming down. The other local authorities I posted a lot of falls. This city was in the top ten and now fallen out of it with quite a sizeable decline on the week before. A lot of positives.

Identification is positive. You get these sensationalised stories like the Shetlands Islands which makes at least two of our north of the border posters quite wary and paranoid. The reality is the being picked up is scary but saves a lot of lives.


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## fossyant (10 Jul 2020)

We've had a letter from the Nursing home about seeing relatives. Won't be allowed in at all (understandable) but at present relatives will be outside, whilst the cared for person will be in a room with a glass window - communication via a phone. Appointments only. At least my wife will get to see her mum, but I suppose this is it. Not a great way to spend your life but the risks are high.

They hope, in some weeks, to move to a gazebo outside in the garden - weather permitting.


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## johnblack (10 Jul 2020)

The figures for June 29th to July 5th showed that 73% of English local authorites had a score of 5 or less / 100,000 infections. There were only 35 daily in London and 4 all week in Bournemouth. None in Bath or Cornwall, that's far more positive news and needs to be used to balance the constant drip of bad news stories that so many people are focusing on.


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## johnblack (10 Jul 2020)

Devon and Middlesborough 4, Sunderland 2, Darlington 1. 

Using the German definition, that many see as the gold standard for how many weekly positive infections per 100,000 people defines a "danger zone" is 50. Of 150 upper-tier local authorities in England, only one is over that limit, locked-down Leicester.

That's enough good news.


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## C R (10 Jul 2020)

johnblack said:


> The figures for June 29th to July 5th showed that 73% of English local authorites had a score of 5 or less / 100,000 infections. There were only 35 daily in London and 4 all week in Bournemouth. None in Bath or Cornwall, that's far more positive news and needs to be used to balance the constant drip of bad news stories that so many people are focusing on.


Does that include community testing? Until only last week the official figures only included hospital testing, results from community testing performed by the private contractors were not included, for reasons that haven't been clearly explained.


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## johnblack (10 Jul 2020)

C R said:


> Does that include community testing? Until only last week the official figures only included hospital testing, results from community testing performed by the private contractors were not included, for reasons that haven't been clearly explained.


It's from the PHE data that is released each Thursday.


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## marinyork (12 Jul 2020)

The parents have gone to a church service . Apparently it's at 60% capacity.

First time out in 4 months for my mother.


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## Stephenite (12 Jul 2020)

I'm having a test on Monday.

I reckon me and the kids picked up a bug - cold virus - in the swimming pool last sunday. Whilst the kids were very snotty from Tuesday I didn't show any symptoms til Thursday (my day off). Spoke to my team leader on Friday morning and he asked if I would phone the Corona hotline. That led to me being given a test appointment and being told to self-isolate until I get the results on Wednesday.

We are supposed to start our summer holiday on Monday by driving to the 'summer cottage'. We can handle a few days delay in the interests of the greater good, I suppose.


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## matticus (13 Jul 2020)

I've been pretty anxious about all the uncertainty throughout the pandemic; one thing that makes this worse is the outbreaks of petty gate-keepers in my life. I've mentioned the Little Hitlers that get jobs at airports to get some power over complete strangers; well COVID has empowered 1000s of these people in normal life.

It's not enough to follow the law, scientific guidance, good manners, be kind to people; no, you also have to jump through hoops everywhere you fecking go. And you don't know until you get there what hoops there will be.

Sport? Well there is usually 4 levels of hitlers who can impose some restriction - at each level, they look up the chain for a justification to stop things, then they try to think up their own rules to feel important.

Aaaaaaaaaargh! And breathe ...


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## johnblack (13 Jul 2020)

matticus said:


> I've been pretty anxious about all the uncertainty throughout the pandemic; one thing that makes this worse is the outbreaks of petty gate-keepers in my life. I've mentioned the Little Hitlers that get jobs at airports to get some power over complete strangers; well COVID has empowered 1000s of these people in normal life.
> 
> It's not enough to follow the law, scientific guidance, good manners, be kind to people; no, you also have to jump through hoops everywhere you fecking go. And you don't know until you get there what hoops there will be.
> 
> ...


Some people thrive on tiny amounts of power and this has been an absolute dreamtime for them, give them a hi-vis and they get drunk on power.

I have no social media but have been kept aware of the local curtain twitching facebook brigade, a radicalised lockdown neighbourhood watch of fanatics with clipboards and stopwatches, checking up on comings and goings in the village and commenting on facebook. They were very brave for a few weeks, ready to call the police, ring employers and gang up on anyone they felt may have done something outside of the rules. They've all gone very quiet now, I'm sure they're hoping for a huge second wave of infections so that they can go full fanatic again.


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## winjim (18 Jul 2020)

Latest swab test has come back negative as expected. There are rumours that they're looking for vaccine trial volunteers to be deliberately exposed to the virus in order to speed up the process but I don't know if that's true. I don't think I'd really fancy it. I guess they'd have to unblind people and confirm the presence of antibodies before they went ahead.

What this shows of course is that the more successful our efforts are at mitigating the spread of the virus, the larger the cohort and the longer the time required to demonstrate (or refute) vaccine efficacy.


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## marinyork (18 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> Latest swab test has come back negative as expected. There are rumours that they're looking for vaccine trial volunteers to be deliberately exposed to the virus in order to speed up the process but I don't know if that's true. I don't think I'd really fancy it. I guess they'd have to unblind people and confirm the presence of antibodies before they went ahead.
> 
> What this shows of course is that the more successful our efforts are at mitigating the spread of the virus, the larger the cohort and the longer the time required to demonstrate (or refute) vaccine efficacy.



Monday in the Lancet, a lot of people have not been wanting to comment in the media until it's published the very early phase 1 results.

In terms of infecting people there's been a lot of talk about this the last two weeks, but the vaccine you have had is also being used in Brazil where sadly there isn't a shortage of risks of being exposed to the virus. It's not clear at all using volunteers in brazil how long it'd take to get data, there's been lengthy timescales discussed on that one.


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## postman (19 Jul 2020)

Not using public transport.Walking everywhere.Just started to visit two mates.Car journey and a walk back.George up the street.Ernie from Hunmanby just turned his offer of a visit down,not using bus or setting foot near a train.And it will be a long time before i do.


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## Accy cyclist (22 Jul 2020)

I received a letter today from Imperial College London asking me to take part in a C19 test,which according to them will allow them to estimate how many people in England have already been infected,though it won't be able to tell if i have. So what's in it for me i ask?


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## Rocky (22 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I received a letter today from Imperial College London asking me to take part in a C19 test,which according to them will allow them to estimate how many people in England have already been infected,though it won't be able to tell if i have. So what's in it for me i ask?


Say yes!! It's your contribution to medical science. You'll have a good feeling knowing you've helped.


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## Julia9054 (22 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> So what's in it for me i ask?


And here we go again. See my comment on the Face Mask Friday thread.


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## marinyork (22 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I received a letter today from Imperial College London asking me to take part in a C19 test,which according to them will allow them to estimate how many people in England have already been infected,though it won't be able to tell if i have. So what's in it for me i ask?



The virus is going to be around for a long time.

Any accurate information helps everyone including you. 

I'd take a t cell, serology test or antibody test without question even if I never got the results.


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## lane (22 Jul 2020)

So would I on the other hand why can't they give you the results.


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## MntnMan62 (22 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> So would I on the other hand why can't they give you the results.



Maybe they are putting what limited resources they have on compiling the data, evaluating it and attempting to come up with some answers to questions which is the main purpose of the study. Sending each participant the results of their tests takes time and money.


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## Julia9054 (22 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> So would I on the other hand why can't they give you the results.


Antibody test results are of limited use to the individual. We do not yet know how long antibodies last and how much, if any, immunity it gives you. Altering individual behaviour on the basis of a positive antibody test would be a wrong move. It is, of course, of interest to research on a population level as it gives an indication of what proportion of the population has been exposed to the virus


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## lane (22 Jul 2020)

I'm sure it was on the news Govt will be making an antibody test available to all who want it which gives a result in 30 minutes?


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## marinyork (22 Jul 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Antibody test results are of limited use to the individual. We do not yet know how long antibodies last and how much, if any, immunity it gives you. Altering individual behaviour on the basis of a positive antibody test would be a wrong move. It is, of course, of interest to research on a population level as it gives an indication of what proportion of the population has been exposed to the virus



Schools, teachers, health conditions and risks of going back to school...

Antibody tests are of use to the individual. They instill reassurance and and confidence in the public. Given the government lost the battle over schools, this is not of limited use at all. There are downsides. SAGE has written a long time ago of the behavioural risks on antibody tests. However, given the major breakthrough on antibody test kits recently, I think come winter some of the negative behaviours will be offset by how common they are and what will happen in the winter.


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## marinyork (22 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> I'm sure it was on the news Govt will be making an antibody test available to all who want it which gives a result in 30 minutes?



It's rumoured that the naturally very slothful authorities will licence the 'pin prick' antibody test kit, after it was 98.6% accurate after a large study.

The reality of what that means to me that in the latter parts of 2020 you and me _may_ get a test, if the rumours about government intent as reported in the telegraph are true. In a remarkably similar way that kingrollo was asking about vaccines, yeah a vaccine exists, it may even pass it's stage 3 trials this year but when people like me and him are actually offered a vaccine. Long way off.


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## lane (22 Jul 2020)

What does long way off mean?

Also is there any research regarding which settings people are catching the virus?


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

Potentially a fair few years.


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## Rusty Nails (22 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> Potentially a fair few years.



What does potentially mean? 

How much is a fair few?

How long is a piece of string?

Too many complications for anyone other than those directly involved in the development of a vaccine to hazard anything other than a guess.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> What does potentially mean?
> 
> How much is a fair few?
> 
> ...



OK, not this year or next, no-one knows, but don't expect 'normality' for many years. It's means lots longer than Boris is saying.


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## lane (22 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> OK, not this year or next, no-one knows, but don't expect 'normality' for many years. It's means lots longer than Boris is saying.



What do you base that on?


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## Julia9054 (22 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> They instill reassurance and and confidence in the public


Since we don't yet know the true significance of having antibodies then we risk that confidence being misplaced


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## lane (22 Jul 2020)

I am virtually certain I have never had Covid, so certain I wouldn't even bother with a test. However if I found I have had it, I might conclude that as it was so mild I never even noticed, I probably don't need to overly worry in future, even if I was unsure that having it previously provided me with some immunity.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> What do you base that on?



My opinion that's all. We don't know.


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## classic33 (22 Jul 2020)

Would having your details incorrectly recorded affect the outcome of test results.


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## All uphill (22 Jul 2020)

I'm very lucky to be free of any work commitments, and feel the best way I can contribute to society, my family and myself is to continue to stay healthy (lots of cycling and good diet) and avoid as many of the known risks as possible, so no visits to shops, friends and minimal contact with friends.

I'm enjoying the extra time in the garden, reading more good books and listening to more music.

As an quiet person these changes feel comfortable, and are likely to be permanent.


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## classic33 (22 Jul 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> What does potentially mean?
> 
> How much is a fair few?
> 
> ...


25% of its original length



classic33 said:


> 25% of its origional length
> 
> From further down the thread.
> _"There is even a formula for the length of a piece of string:
> ...



Edited to correct formatting


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## marinyork (22 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> What does long way off mean?
> 
> Also is there any research regarding which settings people are catching the virus?



A long way off I meant add six months for the manufacture, fighting, piracy, seizing, transportation and administration. For different tranches. Add in a long queue and even longer.

This is not guessing when a vaccine will exist, this is a completely different thing to what another poster is saying. It is saying there could be months and months of waiting for people to have it even after it exists and is proven to be safe.

There are about 170 vaccines and the representative of the UK government has gone into this in more detail this week. The UK's trying to buy options on about 12 vaccines, from four different methods. Very sensible.

The oxford and other vaccines are manufacturing before phase 3 trials are complete. The estimates of how many can be produced per month for each vaccine vary, some are in the hundreds of thousands per month (a massive problem), some are in the millions or tens of millions. In the Western world there are a billion + of us. Some manufacturing will take time to scale up. Those vaccines need transporting. They need storing in fridges. They need people to administer them, which even with Matt Hancock saying he'll change the law still has problems. It needs adrenaline on hand? It needs people to hang around afterwards and be monitored and throw salt over their shoulder and jump on one leg three times. It needs a system to give them to patients e.g. in nursing homes where some patients cannot travel. Vaccines don't work as terribly well in elderly populations as anyone who has experience of flu vaccine systems knows. It's quite feasible vaccine choice will be very complicated by one vaccine for one age group and a different one for other groups. This will get complicated further by vaccines coming on stream at different times and what's available. It gets complicated further by a lot of people think a booster may be needed.

Another thread said make predictions by 1st January 2022. I think it more likely than not that Kingrollo and I won't have had our coronavirus vaccine by then even if it passes it's phase 3 trials by the end of this year. There's been a lot of talk about antivaxxers on here, I think there's the opposite problem that in 2021 that unless the three main vaccines the UK has bought large options on are the ones that work, the UK will only have access to hundreds of thousands to a few million in 2021. The idea that the UK's going to have 66 million vaccines any time soon going into each of those people's arms and a huge problem of antivaxxers saying no I think is utter fantasy and is infact very damaging and may cause us enormous societal issues down the line. I foresee enormous arguments about vaccines akin to issues I saw every year with flu vaccines but magnified.

I'm also incredibly relaxed about if there's only a few million vaccines. As long as you don't have some bat shoot crazy system of giving it to michael gove's daughter, prince andrew and the dominic cummings of the world, this is still an amazing achievement and helps protect the rest of us to a very considerable extent compared to now.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

I've moved 'office' to the conservatory this week - change of scene and as MrsF is at the caravan, I'm not in the way of her sewing. I am hugely grateful, despite having a small house, that my wife made 'spaces' so we all have some break out space. My office office is currently the shed/summer house. I have lots of colleagues who are stuck on a settee/bed/tiny kitchen. 

Only disadvantage is some spreadsheet errors as 3 of the five cats like walking over my laptop keyboard - one was on a Skype this morning - fortunately with a fellow cat owner.

The other two other WFH's in my house no longer have jobs, so just me working. Son doing Dominoes delivery in the evenings, after losing his apprenticeship.

I am missing the interaction with colleagues - as someone who has always worked in an office this is odd - that said, we are all hopeful of flexible working going forward.

I do like the flexibilty of being able to have a longer lunch to get a ride in - this weill be great in winter (yup I'll still be in the shed then).


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2020)

marinyork said:


> A long way off I meant add six months for the manufacture, fighting, piracy, seizing, transportation and administration. For different tranches. Add in a long queue and even longer.
> 
> This is not guessing when a vaccine will exist, this is a completely different thing to what another poster is saying. It is saying there could be months and months of waiting for people to have it even after it exists and is proven to be safe.
> 
> ...



Excellent response as usual. There have been massive gains, but the vaccine needs to go to those at risk first.


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## Rusty Nails (22 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> OK, not this year or next, no-one knows, but don't expect 'normality' for many years. It's means lots longer than Boris is saying.



I don't know enough to agree or disagree with your guesstimates of the vaccine timetable, but I agree with you about normality. Many people will find it difficult not being ultra cautious around crowds, shops, cinemas, foreign holidays etc for a very long time. Many companies are going to go to the wall and unemployment levels will be very high. The backlog of treatments lost during this year will affect illness levels and waiting lists for a long time. I believe universities will suffer financially by not getting the income from foreign students that they rely on.

Boris's bluster will change nothing.


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## Unkraut (23 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> My office office is currently the shed/summer house. ... I do like the flexibility of being able to have a longer lunch to get a ride in - this will be great in winter (yup I'll still be in the shed then).


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

We face a horrible future!! This virus is going to return (it's almost as if they want it to!) and be worse than the current wave. Then we have the flu and large scale recession and unemployment to look forward too. On top of that it's constantly pissing down!!😒


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

C'mon,i want an argument,let's 'ave it!!!  Would it help if i posted the DM link i read it in?
Seriously though,i'm pissed off with everything! I feel like i'm living in some eastern European,soviet controlled sh!t hole in the 1980's!!


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## fossyant (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> C'mon,i want an argument,let's 'ave it!!!  Would it help if i posted the DM link i read it in?
> Seriously though,i'm pissed off with everything! I feel like i'm living in some eastern European,soviet controlled sh!t hole in the 1980's!!



It's all a bit "Pete Tong" at the moment. Two job losses in my house, MIL basically locked down in a nursing home, still keeping distance from most of family. That's going to continue. I'm still only going out to buy food and ride my bike. Not been near any shops other than supermarkets or DIY shops! God I'd kill to go into work even for just a few hours. Missing the social interaction.

We're in for many more job losses this Autumn. 

Chin up, it's not currently raining here !


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> It's all a bit "Pete Tong" at the moment. Two job losses in my house, MIL basically locked down in a nursing home, still keeping distance from most of family. That's going to continue. I'm still only going out to buy food and ride my bike. Not been near any shops other than supermarkets or DIY shops! God I'd kill to go into work even for just a few hours. Missing the social interaction.
> 
> We're in for many more job losses this Autumn.
> 
> Chin up, it's not currently raining here !


I'm making an 'stick pins in' effigy of one of those who moaned and moaned about their fecking gardens turning straw like,when we had the dry sunny spell a long long time ago (5 weeks today when it ended). They are to blame. I hope they're happy now that their precious lawns are back to green,even though we've had a crap summer because of them!!


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## vickster (23 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> It's all a bit "Pete Tong" at the moment. Two job losses in my house, MIL basically locked down in a nursing home, still keeping distance from most of family. That's going to continue. I'm still only going out to buy food and ride my bike. Not been near any shops other than supermarkets or DIY shops! God I'd kill to go into work even for just a few hours.* Missing the social interaction.*
> 
> We're in for many more job losses this Autumn.
> 
> Chin up, it's not currently raining here !


Why don’t you arrange to meet your team or a few colleagues in a park or similar?


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## johnblack (23 Jul 2020)

Going away for a couple of days tomorrow, riding the South Downs Way from Winchester to Eastbourne with a couple of mates, meeting the wives in Eastbourne and staying a cople of nights, will be interesting to see what it's like haven't really travelled very far in the past few months. Not so much concerns about the virus, more a complete lack of patience with crowds and queues that it has created.


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## Stephenite (23 Jul 2020)

Stephenite said:


> I'm having a test on Monday.
> 
> I reckon me and the kids picked up a bug - cold virus - in the swimming pool last sunday. Whilst the kids were very snotty from Tuesday I didn't show any symptoms til Thursday (my day off). Spoke to my team leader on Friday morning and he asked if I would phone the Corona hotline. That led to me being given a test appointment and being told to self-isolate until I get the results on Wednesday.
> 
> We are supposed to start our summer holiday on Monday by driving to the 'summer cottage'. We can handle a few days delay in the interests of the greater good, I suppose.


I took the test and the result became available on the tuesday afternoon. 24 hours after taking the test. Negative.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

When are libraries reopening? in fact,when are all public sector services reopening?! No wonder they aren't keen on reopening when the staff are on full pay for doing absolutely bugger all!!


Will this lack of paid for services be reflected when my next community charge bill arrives? Meaning,i'm paying for summat i'm not getting!!


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## johnblack (23 Jul 2020)

A frien of my daughter took a test after his mum showed all the symptoms. The mums test was negative, but her son positive, he had no symptoms. A group of his friends all then took the test because they'd played cricket and got a text from the NHS, no positive test between them and all had their results in less than 24 hours, seems as though the system worked pretty well for them.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

I've had enough of this crap weather! The local sunbed salon has decided to not reopen(wimps),so i'm going to 'Little Benidorm' tonight to get topped up!!
https://www.beautynailhairsalons.co...715134172085543/Little-Benidorm-Tanning-Salon

I might even get my nails done while i'm there!


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## Julia9054 (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> When are libraries reopening? in fact,when are all public sector services reopening?! No wonder they aren't keen on reopening when the staff are on full pay for doing absolutely bugger all!!
> 
> 
> Will this lack of paid for services be reflected when my next community charge bill arrives? Meaning,i'm paying for summat i'm not getting!!


Most libraries are now staffed by volunteers - many elderly (and therefore more at risk) due to having the time.
Our library allows you to choose books online and then collect them from outside the door at a prearranged time. You can return books the same way.
I very much doubt that services are open or not open on the whim of the staff.


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## fossyant (23 Jul 2020)

vickster said:


> Why don’t you arrange to meet your team or a few colleagues in a park or similar?



I've suggested we could meet on the large lawn outside the office - fell of deaf ears.


----------



## fossyant (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've had enough of this crap weather! The local sunbed salon has decided to not reopen(wimps),so i'm going to 'Little Benidorm' tonight to get topped up!!
> https://www.beautynailhairsalons.co...715134172085543/Little-Benidorm-Tanning-Salon
> 
> I might even get my nails done while i'm there!



What have you been doing - I've got a great t-shirt tan. Very brown arms and face/neck ! It's not been that wet as the trails are still pretty dry.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> What have you been doing - I've got a great t-shirt tan. Very brown arms and face/neck ! It's not been that wet as the trails are still pretty dry.


I have a good tan from the early summer and i want to maintain it. It ain't gonna happen in piss it down Accrington,so i'm off to little Benidorm for my top up!!


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Most libraries are now staffed by volunteers - many elderly (and therefore more at risk) due to having the time.
> Our library allows you to choose books online and then collect them from outside the door at a prearranged time. You can return books the same way.
> I very much doubt that services are open or not open on the whim of the staff.


I don't even use my local library,i just want it to reopen.


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## vickster (23 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> What have you been doing - I've got a great t-shirt tan. Very brown arms and face/neck ! It's not been that wet as the trails are still pretty dry.


I’ve got a daft cyclist tan


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

I've been waiting for a supposed fracture clinic phone call since 11.15 A letter they sent said they'd call at that time. I'm also waiting for a phone call from my GP regarding the results of my hip X-ray. Her receptionist said she'd call before 12pm.
Why can't they phone at the stated times?


----------



## vickster (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've been waiting for a supposed fracture clinic phone call since 11.15 A letter they sent said they'd call at that time. I'm also waiting for a phone call from my GP regarding the results of my hip X-ray. Her receptionist said she'd call before 12pm.
> Why can't they phone at the stated times?


Probably because they are busy and other things come up / take longer to do...welcome to the real world of work


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## Rusty Nails (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I don't even use my local library,i just want it to reopen.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

vickster said:


> Probably because they are busy and other things come up / take longer to do...welcome to the real world of work


That's not good enough! This happened last year when the fracture clinic eventually phoned 3 hours later than the stated time. If they can't keep to the stated time,why not put something like "We'll phone you at 11.16 am,but it might get to 3 hours later when/if we can be bothered",in their letter. I'm expected to be ready to answer the phone,so i'm missing out on doing my chores!


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


>


I'm one of those rarities who wants services to be there for others,even if i don't use that particular service myself...even bookmakers and take-aways!  How many people have i heard say "i don't use them (pubs mostly),so i couldn't give a toss if they shut down forever"!


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

My GP has just phoned to tell me the results of my X-ray. A bit of arthritis,but more in the left unbroken hip rather than the twice broken right one. I told her that although it sounds odd,i find it easier when walking up steep hills to walk backwards. I asked her if this was ok to do. She said yes,but don't go falling over and breaking the hip again.


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## Andy in Germany (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Will this lack of paid for services be reflected when my next community charge bill arrives? Meaning,i'm paying for summat i'm not getting!!



If you think about it, that's the case for everyone, all of the time.


----------



## All uphill (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> My GP has just phoned to tell me the results of my X-ray. A bit of arthritis,but more in the left unbroken hip rather than the twice broken right one. I told her that although it sounds odd,i find it easier when walking up steep hills to walk backwards. I asked her if this was ok to do. She said yes,but don't go falling over and breaking the hip again.


Good bit of ranting @Accy cyclist !

7/10

Hope you feel better now?


----------



## glasgowcyclist (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> "We'll phone you at 11.16 am,but it might get to 3 hours later when/if we can be bothered"




That's exactly what they do Accy, keep you waiting because they can't be arsed.
Nothing to do with other priorities taking over, or people being late for appointments earlier that morning and shunting the whole schedule back.


----------



## winjim (23 Jul 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That's exactly what they do Accy, keep you waiting because they can't be arsed.
> Nothing to do with other priorities taking over, or people being late for appointments earlier that morning and shunting the whole schedule back.


But if that's the case then perhaps they shouldn't give such precise timing.


----------



## Accy cyclist (23 Jul 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That's exactly what they do Accy, keep you waiting because they can't be arsed.
> Nothing to do with other priorities taking over, or people being late for appointments earlier that morning and shunting the whole schedule back.


Over six hours late and they still haven't phoned me!


----------



## HMS_Dave (23 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've been waiting for a *supposed fracture* clinic phone call since 11.15 A letter they sent said they'd call at that time. I'm also waiting for a phone call from my GP regarding the results of my hip X-ray. Her receptionist said she'd call before 12pm.
> Why can't they phone at the stated times?



Perhaps the supposed fracture clinic was actually a family planning clinic and are confused by your demands?


----------



## lane (23 Jul 2020)

Think positively.


----------



## gbb (24 Jul 2020)

In the next hour i think, i get a Covid test at work, vans and crew have arrived and are setting up.

I like the companies line...you don't have to have a test but if you refuse, you will be expected to leave work immediately and self isolate for 14 days...i assume without pay. That should focus the minds of those that are dismissive of the whole thing.


----------



## fossyant (24 Jul 2020)

gbb said:


> In the next hour i think, i get a Covid test at work, vans and crew have arrived and are setting up.
> 
> I like the companies line...you don't have to have a test but if you refuse, you will be expected to leave work immediately and self isolate for 14 days...i assume without pay. That should focus the minds of those that are dismissive of the whole thing.



Has there been cases, or is it company policy ?


----------



## gbb (24 Jul 2020)

Cases, but i'm not going to elaborate where or how many, company rules on disclosure / social media etc.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Jul 2020)

gbb said:


> I like the companies line...you don't have to have a test but if you refuse, you will be expected to leave work immediately and self isolate for 14 days...i assume without pay. That should focus the minds of those that are dismissive of the whole thing.





gbb said:


> Cases, but i'm not going to elaborate where or how many, company rules on disclosure / social media etc.



Seem a pretty sensible company in this area at least.


----------



## Edwardoka (25 Jul 2020)

Day 2 of running a high fever. I will not be pleased if it turns out that I've stayed indoors for months only to catch the 'roni off an insouciant delivery driver who had no PPE and got closer than I was happy with. Just ordered the home testing kit.

Hopefully it's just a normal infection, no cough or loss of taste (yet).You can expect more incoherent posts from me in the coming days when the boredom and fever delirium overrides the discomfort of sitting at the PC


----------



## fossyant (25 Jul 2020)

gbb said:


> Cases, but i'm not going to elaborate where or how many, company rules on disclosure / social media etc.



Bugger - food processing isn;t it. We're going to get cases as businesses return, no way round it, and as factories have been working already, this is what happens. How you manage when a whole line goes down, or department !


----------



## MntnMan62 (25 Jul 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Day 2 of running a high fever. I will not be pleased if it turns out that I've stayed indoors for months only to catch the 'roni off an insouciant delivery driver who had no PPE and got closer than I was happy with. Just ordered the home testing kit.
> 
> Hopefully it's just a normal infection, no cough or loss of taste (yet).You can expect more incoherent posts from me in the coming days when the boredom and fever delirium overrides the discomfort of sitting at the PC



Hopefully the test comes out negative.


----------



## fossyant (25 Jul 2020)

MrsF's mum is getting fed up in the locked down Nursing Home. I do wish she wouldn't say things like 'I want to go home, and I want to die at home'. Makes MrsF and the other daughters feel guilty. 

It's not great in a nursing home, but must be aweful as it's more like a prison now.


----------



## winjim (25 Jul 2020)

I still don't have it...


----------



## winjim (25 Jul 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Day 2 of running a high fever. I will not be pleased if it turns out that I've stayed indoors for months only to catch the 'roni off an insouciant delivery driver who had no PPE and got closer than I was happy with. Just ordered the home testing kit.
> 
> Hopefully it's just a normal infection, no cough or loss of taste (yet).You can expect more incoherent posts from me in the coming days when the boredom and fever delirium overrides the discomfort of sitting at the PC





MntnMan62 said:


> Hopefully the test comes out negative.


You should get the results back in 24-48hrs. I send mine away on Thursday and get the results by text Fri pm or Sat am.


----------



## gbb (25 Jul 2020)

Negative result for mine, took about 30 hours to come .


----------



## Slick (25 Jul 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Day 2 of running a high fever. I will not be pleased if it turns out that I've stayed indoors for months only to catch the 'roni off an insouciant delivery driver who had no PPE and got closer than I was happy with. Just ordered the home testing kit.
> 
> Hopefully it's just a normal infection, no cough or loss of taste (yet).You can expect more incoherent posts from me in the coming days when the boredom and fever delirium overrides the discomfort of sitting at the PC


That's not good. Hopefully nothing but take care. 👍


----------



## classic33 (26 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> I still don't have it...


Do you want it!


----------



## Andy in Germany (26 Jul 2020)

Things seem almost back to normal here, although mouth and nose coverings are still mandatory on public transport and in shops, and people generally comply. There's a lot of signs with the message of "1.5m, Masks, wash hands" on them to keep it reinforced.


----------



## fossyant (26 Jul 2020)

@Edwardoka How you feeling today ?


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## winjim (26 Jul 2020)

classic33 said:


> Do you want it!


Maybe, I want to know if this vaccine's working.


----------



## C R (26 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> Maybe, I want to know if this vaccine's working.


If the vaccine is working, would you get it at all? How would you know that the vaccine worked?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (26 Jul 2020)

C R said:


> If the vaccine is working, would you get it at all? How would you know that the vaccine worked?



You’d still get symptoms just mild ones. Plus you’d develop T cells and / or anti bodies


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## Slick (26 Jul 2020)

Unless of course it didn't work or your in the control group.


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## winjim (26 Jul 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You’d still get symptoms just mild ones. Plus you’d develop T cells and / or anti bodies


We do know it at least provokes the correct immune response. Mild symptoms could mean anything really.


Slick said:


> Unless of course it didn't work or your in the control group.


Reports of symptoms post-vaccination are certainly consistent with my experience so I think it's likely, although by no means certain, that I am in the test group. Of course there is an easy way to find out...


----------



## Slick (26 Jul 2020)

winjim said:


> We do know it at least provokes the correct immune response. Mild symptoms could mean anything really.
> 
> Reports of symptoms post-vaccination are certainly consistent with my experience so I think it's likely, although by no means certain, that I am in the test group. Of course there is an easy way to find out...


Yeah but don't do it.

I know it's just chat on a forum but does taking part in the study change your attitude or behaviour?


----------



## winjim (26 Jul 2020)

Slick said:


> Yeah but don't do it.
> 
> I know it's just chat on a forum but does taking part in the study change your attitude or behaviour?


Nah, not as far as I'm aware. Still acting exactly the same as I was before to the best of my knowledge. I'm slightly optimistic that there's a chance that I may have been successfully vaccinated against this virus but there's a >50% change that I haven't. Certainly my family, loved ones, most of my colleagues and everybody else that I come into contact with haven't so I'm not taking any risks. Which of course makes efficacy testing kind of difficult.


----------



## Edwardoka (26 Jul 2020)

fossyant said:


> @Edwardoka How you feeling today ?


Much better, thanks, although rather drained. The fever broke around midday but I've got a bunch of random aches all over.
About to take my covid home test, for all the good it's going to do me I should just stick it up my nose


----------



## marinyork (28 Jul 2020)

99% in a supermarket today wearing coverings. The one exception had a visor. 90% of staff rather surprisingly. The social distancing is going though, to many impatient knobbers cutting and barging in where they'd wait a few seconds before.


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## Edwardoka (29 Jul 2020)

Just got my test results back: negative. Damn, now I have no excuse for not sorting my life out.


----------



## screenman (29 Jul 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've moaned about them before and i'm going to do it again! The teaching unions are at it again,telling the government,teachers,parents and pupils that it's not safe to go back,not even in September! Nice isn't it when they're well funded by the taxpayer,so why would they want to go back when they're getting 100% of their wages for doing bugger all! *IF* the schools do reopen in September we'll have had nearly 6 months of this! Are teachers keeping out of supermarkets or not going on holiday to avoid C19? No they are not,so why can't they get back to doing what they are well paid to do and that's teach. The police must be sick of it, as these brats being off is leading to increased yobbery! Not to mention the parents who're having to either find child minders for the younger children,or put up with anti-social behaviour at home off the older ones! Teachers,you've had your nice long holiday,please at least go back in September.....after another 6 weeks of taxpayer funded holidays!!



You need some serious education, my son and his wife both teachers have been into work everyday.


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## screenman (29 Jul 2020)

Makes me angry how many people knock teachers yet as we have seen cannot manage to give thier own kids a little home schooling lately, I wonder if it has changed the views of some parents, somehow I doubt it.


----------



## C R (29 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Makes me angry how many people knock teachers yet as we have seen cannot manage to give thier own kids a little home schooling lately, I wonder if it has changed the views of some parents, somehow I doubt it.


Nah, their inability to tear themselves from their screen to do half an hour of reading, mathematics or even play is obviously the teachers fault.


----------



## MntnMan62 (29 Jul 2020)

New Jersey is introducing a bill for the State's schools that would require all districts to only offer online instruction and no in class education for the coming school year. I'm all for that bill being passed. Let's face it. Adults can't even figure out how to properly social distance yet they expect kindergarteners to do it?


----------



## Andy in Germany (29 Jul 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> New Jersey is introducing a bill for the State's schools that would require all districts to only offer online instruction and no in class education for the coming school year. I'm all for that bill being passed. Let's face it. Adults can't even figure out how to properly social distance yet they expect kindergarteners to do it?



That's a tough one because it assumes all children have a reliable internet connection, and more importantly, a place to learn and competent support from home.


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## MntnMan62 (30 Jul 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's a tough one because it assumes all children have a reliable internet connection, and more importantly, a place to learn and competent support from home.



That is true. But not all kids thrive in the classroom either. And not all kid are good test takers. There's always someone who isn't happy.


----------



## Andy in Germany (30 Jul 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> That is true. But not all kids thrive in the classroom either. And not all kid are good test takers. There's always someone who isn't happy.



This is true; you won't find me championing the current education system, but there's a ,lot of concern here that some children simply disappear; they don't come online at the arranged time and don't email homework when they need to, but the teachers can't do much about it, so they fall behind.


----------



## fossyant (30 Jul 2020)

Went over to chat to next door last night (I'm feeding their cat as they are away this weekend). asked if they were having a mini break, and they said they were going back North East to where he was from to see what job prospects and housing is like now. He's still on furlough but they recon the company has less than a month to stay solvent, and his wife was WFH, but has been made redundant. Crap times indeed. He wasn't sure that the NE job situation was better then Manchester's.


----------



## DCLane (30 Jul 2020)

There will be lots like this - I've a feeling we'll see unemployment around 3 million once a lot of 'non-jobs' are cleared out, along with all the services associated with an office-based role (catering/cafe's, security, facilities, etc.) are no longer needed with staff working from home. Sports and entertainment staff are also going to have a difficult time.

It's going to be tough for a while.


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

Is it a high possibility that those in their 50's to 70's will be asked to 'lockdown' again? If it is then i'd just like to say that i for one will not be complying! Up yours totalitarian, state control, big brother self-gratification artists!!👎


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Is it a high possibility that those in their 50's to 70's will be asked to 'lockdown' again? If it is then i'd just like to say that i for one will not be complying! Up yours totalitarian, state control, big brother self-gratification artists!!👎


Is this a rule the inside of your head has just made up?


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Is this a rule the inside of your head has just made up?


https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....eld-pms-plans-avoid-second-national-lockdown/

They can just feck right off!! More will die of depression and hospital waiting times than this bloody virus!!

They're also talking of shutting pubs so that the schools can re-open. They won't be going back in September because the militant unions say so!


----------



## slowmotion (2 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> This is true; you won't find me championing the current education system, but there's a ,lot of concern here that some children simply disappear; they don't come online at the arranged time and don't email homework when they need to, but the teachers can't do much about it, so they fall behind.


I read somewhere last week that there is a massive difference between the number of state and private school pupils who were getting effective online secondary education during lockdown in the UK. 8% as opposed to 72%. BTW, I have no idea how those figures were gathered.


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I read somewhere last week that there is a massive difference between the number of state and private school pupils who were getting effective online education during lockdown in the UK. 8% as opposed to 72%. BTW, I have no idea how those figures were gathered.


Nor what is defined as effective.


----------



## slowmotion (2 Aug 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Nor what is defined as effective.


Quite.

Edit: I think this was the article but I could be wrong...….

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...-private-schools-after-coronavirus-disruption


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## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....eld-pms-plans-avoid-second-national-lockdown/
> 
> They can just feck right off!! More will die of depression and hospital waiting times than this bloody virus!!


There is a lot of "might" "is said to have" and "could" in that article. Journalists scaremongering.


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> There is a lot of "might" "is said to have" and "could" in that article. Journalists scaremongering.


I've read/heard it quite a few times,in the press and on the radio about 50's to 70's being forced into another lockdown. Even though most journalists are economical with the truth,they can't all be making it up.


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've read/heard it quite a few times,in the press and on the radio about 50's to 70's being forced into another lockdown. Even though most journalists are economical with the truth,they can't all be making it up.


Still journalists speculating. Your article says over 50s given personalised risk ratings. Are we all getting a medical then? Imagine the staffing required for that!


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Still journalists speculating. Your article says over 50s given personalised risk ratings. Are we all getting a medical then? Imagine the staffing required for that!


I've heard that they'll look (illegally) at our medical records and decide if we should or shouldn't be placed under house arrest.


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

slowmotion said:


> Quite.
> 
> Edit: I think this was the article but I could be wrong...….
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/educati...-private-schools-after-coronavirus-disruption


The "live" lesson seems to be what is held up as the gold standard for remote teaching. I teaching in a state secondary school that has been one of the better ones at providing remote provision. As I have said elsewhere on here, this is because we are an iPad school. This means that all our students (and staff) have an iPad and we are used to using the platform to distribute resources, to set work and to mark and give feedback. This gives us a huge advantage over other schools where staff and students have had a huge learning curve and many students - even in affluent areas - are in homes that are not set up to access what the school provides.
This means that because it has been easy for us to provide the basics, we have been in a good position (as private schools are) to give live lessons a good go. I have not found them to be as effective as other forms of remote learning as interactivity is limited and it becomes little more than an online lecture. Our students have voted with their feet with less than half turning up by the end


----------



## Mike_P (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've heard that they'll look (illegally) at our medical records and decide if we should or shouldn't be placed under house arrest.


Surely like the original lockdown they will ask local gp's who has whatever is an issue.


----------



## All uphill (2 Aug 2020)

Our 27 year old son had a positive covid diagnosis on Monday. He has been in good general health and has been very careful over the last three months.

The reason for this post is to say that it has been forcibly brought home to us that his is a really nasty condition, and when it strikes your child it certainly makes the idea of foregoing the pub, holidays and wearing a mask seem like very small sacrifices.

I am normally very calm and tolerant but I'm not going to find it easy to read the more ridiculous libertarian comments on here.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Aug 2020)

This over 50’s thing seems strange. Surely if someone over 50 is particularly vulnerable they’d have been isolating already. Are they going to ask any obese people regardless of age to isolate?


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> This over 50’s thing seems strange. Surely if someone over 50 is particularly vulnerable they’d have been isolating already. Are they going to ask any obese people regardless of age to isolate?


The news article @Accy cyclist quoted suggested that all over 50s would be given an individual risk rating potentially adding to the list of those that were originally shielding. What it didn't say was how the risk rating would be worked out and what you would be mandated to do with the information. So, I guess, those over 50s who were originally shielding due to being extremely clinically vulnerable would be expected to do so again for starters and then they would look at the others. So . . . potentially points for being male, BAME, obese, type 2 diabetes, high bp/cholesterol mild to moderate asthma/COPD etc. Since many over 50s are walking round with some of these conditions without knowing or having ever visited a GP, it is unworkable without giving all over 50s a medical. 
So . . . journalistic scaremongering.


----------



## The Jogger (2 Aug 2020)

The sensible thing to do would be to offer early retirement to the over 60s initially, see the uptake and use this to keep the younger less vulnerable in jobs. Then look at options for the over 50s.


----------



## Julia9054 (2 Aug 2020)

The Jogger said:


> The sensible thing to do would be to offer early retirement to the over 60s initially, see the uptake and use this to keep the younger less vulnerable in jobs. Then look at options for the over 50s.


You can offer it but if people have not saved for that to be their plan, it's not going to be possible.


----------



## The Jogger (2 Aug 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> You can offer it but if people have not saved for that to be their plan, it's not going to be possible.


In your opinion.
Financed by not having to pay out the unemployment benefits to the younger less vulnerable and paying the oap to those over 60 (the more vulnerable) that would choose to retire. After all it would also resolve the women forced into working past their initial retirement age, which was an injustice in itself.


----------



## classic33 (2 Aug 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Surely like the original lockdown they will ask local gp's who has whatever is an issue.


They asked GP's!


----------



## slowmotion (2 Aug 2020)

The Jogger said:


> After all it would also resolve the women forced into working past their initial retirement age, which was an injustice in itself.


…...or was it merely rectifying a grotesquely unjust sexist policy that discriminated against males....?


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

Just listening to a jumped up busybody on the local radio phone in saying he asked a security guard in a supermarket to challenge a couple about not wearing masks. He said the guard refused to,saying he didn't have any power to stop and ask. The caller then said "so i went and challenged them,then they told me to keep my f..k..g nose out". I think i would've said the same to this idiot! The other day in a home fittings store while talking to a friend,a woman looked at me and shook her head,most likely because i wasn't wearing a mask."That's it,shake your head" i said quite loudly.


----------



## MntnMan62 (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Just listening to a jumped up busybody on the local radio phone in saying he asked a security guard in a supermarket to challenge a couple about not wearing masks. He said the guard refused to,saying he didn't have any power to stop and ask. The caller then said "so i went and challenged them,but they told me to keep my f..k..g nose out". I think i would've said the same to this idiot! The other day in a home fittings store while talking to a friend,a woman looked at me and shook her head,most likely because i wasn't wearing a mask. "That's it,shake your head" i said quite loudly.



I refrain from calling people out unless I know for a fact that the place where I am makes it mandatory to wear a mask. I'll say something like "Excuse me but do you realize this store requires everyone to wear a mask?" If they get beligerant I'll look at them and say "You might want to collect your things and go pay for what you are buying because you won't be in this store for very long." But again, I wouldn't do that unless I know the store will do something about it. If I know they won't do anything about it, then I just keep my mouth shut. But if I see that person doing something that puts others in danger, I'll definitely open my mouth.


----------



## Accy cyclist (2 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I know for a fact that the place where I am makes it mandatory to wear a mask. I'll say something like "Excuse me *but do you realize this store requires everyone to wear a mask?"*


I'm not 100% certain,but i don't think it's compulsory to wear masks in stores. I have to when visiting the dentist quite a lot at the moment,but i think that'll be because of medical reasons. Correct me if i'm wrong! 


Ah,just seen your location. I suppose the rules are different where you live.


----------



## MntnMan62 (2 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm not 100% certain,but i don't think it's compulsory to wear masks in stores. I have to when visiting the dentist quite a lot at the moment,but i think that'll be because of medical reasons. Correct me if i'm wrong!



I'm in the US. Everywhere is different. I'm in the NY Metro area so most places around me mandate wearing a mask in their establishments. It might even be a law. It's rare that I see someone without a mask. Any mask "denyers" are definitely in the minority in my neck of the woods. There is a reservoir with a paved walking path around it that lots of people like to utilize. It's about 1.75 miles or so. The entrance to the area usually has a police officer and there are signs that say masks are required. Personally I won't go anywhere that is so crowded like that. Some people may have a mask on when they enter the area but then later on you might see some of them with the mask not covering their nose or pulled down below their face altogether. My normal bike ride takes me by the entrance to the place. I don't wear a mask while riding but I also don't come near anyone. The riskiest situation I anticipate would be if I'm coming up on a slower biker. In that case I'll slow down well behind them, look over my shoulder to be sure no cars are coming and then dart out into the traffic lane, stand up and power past them like Alberto Contador.


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## classic33 (2 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I refrain from calling people out unless I know for a fact that the place where I am makes it mandatory to wear a mask. I'll say something like "Excuse me but do you realize this store requires everyone to wear a mask?" If they get beligerant I'll look at them and say "You might want to collect your things and go pay for what you are buying because you won't be in this store for very long." But again, I wouldn't do that unless I know the store will do something about it. If I know they won't do anything about it, then I just keep my mouth shut. But if I see that person doing something that puts others in danger, I'll definitely open my mouth.


The requirement to wear one in stores/shops is there, but it's a legal requirement. This means that shop staff can't actually make you wear one, nor can store security.


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## MntnMan62 (3 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> The requirement to wear one in stores/shops is there, but it's a legal requirement. This means that shop staff can't actually make you wear one, nor can store security.



It's a legal requirement yet the requirement cannot be enforced? That seems a bit dubious. A store is a private establishment. That means they set the rules for their stores. If there is a law on the books that says people in stores must wear masks, then the store likely has the legal obligation to enforce that rule. It's up to them and they are within their rights to remove the individual that is unwilling to abide by their rules. At least that's how it's done here.


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## winjim (3 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> It's a legal requirement yet the requirement cannot be enforced? That seems a bit dubious. A store is a private establishment. That means they set the rules for their stores. If there is a law on the books that says people in stores must wear masks, then the store likely has the legal obligation to enforce that rule. It's up to them and they are within their rights to remove the individual that is unwilling to abide by their rules. At least that's how it's done here.


It's unenforceable because there are exemptions for the disabled, but shops are not permitted to discriminate on the grounds of disability so as I understand it they're not even legally allowed to ask if you have a valid exemption.

Plus I think that responsibility lies with the individual, not the shop, and even the police have said that they can't / won't enforce it so I wouldn't expect some 18yo minimum wage till jockey to have to.


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## MntnMan62 (3 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> It's unenforceable because there are exemptions for the disabled, but shops are not permitted to discriminate on the grounds of disability so as I understand it they're not even legally allowed to ask if you have a valid exemption.
> 
> Plus I think that responsibility lies with the individual, not the shop, and even the police have said that they can't / won't enforce it so I wouldn't expect some 18yo minimum wage till jockey to have to.



Well, if I had a store, which I don't, but if I did, and I cared as much as I do about keeping people safe, I would go on the assumption that everyone coming into my store is able to wear a mask. So if someone did come in not wearing a mask, I'd ask them to either wear one, provide them one or if they refuse, ask them to leave. It would be up to the person to tell me if they have a disability that would exempt them from having to wear a mask. That way I haven't asked them if they had a disability. And if they could reasonably convey the existence of the disability, I'd use my judgement as to whether to allow them to remain in the store. I'm not sure if there is even a law here about that. But most stores I know of have signs that say "No Mask, No Entry". Seems reasonable enough to me.


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## Nomadski (3 Aug 2020)

Still furloughed. The joys of working at an airport retailer. Manchester T2 is predicted to only have a few more than a dozen flights a day in August so might still be a while yet.


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## winjim (3 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> Well, if I had a store, which I don't, but if I did, and I cared as much as I do about keeping people safe, I would go on the assumption that everyone coming into my store is able to wear a mask. So if someone did come in not wearing a mask, I'd ask them to either wear one, provide them one or if they refuse, ask them to leave. It would be up to the person to tell me if they have a disability that would exempt them from having to wear a mask. That way I haven't asked them if they had a disability. And if they could reasonably convey the existence of the disability, I'd use my judgement as to whether to allow them to remain in the store. I'm not sure if there is even a law here about that. But most stores I know of have signs that say "No Mask, No Entry". Seems reasonable enough to me.


I'm obviously no expert, and I expect it would need to be tested in court, but it's my understanding that that would still be considered discriminatory. I have read however that health and safety may trump discrimination legislation so you could have grounds to refuse service to non-mask wearers in order to protect the wellbeing of your employees.


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> Well, if I had a store, which I don't, but if I did, and I cared as much as I do about keeping people safe, I would go on the assumption that everyone coming into my store is able to wear a mask. So if someone did come in not wearing a mask, I'd ask them to either wear one, provide them one or if they refuse, ask them to leave. It would be up to the person to tell me if they have a disability that would exempt them from having to wear a mask. That way I haven't asked them if they had a disability. And if they could reasonably convey the existence of the disability, I'd use my judgement as to whether to allow them to remain in the store. I'm not sure if there is even a law here about that. But most stores I know of have signs that say "No Mask, No Entry". Seems reasonable enough to me.



There are large issues around moral hazard. 

If you own the store, it misses the point as you are creaming in the benefits, if you are a regular worker you aren't but taking those risks.

There are subtleties and different situations.


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2020)

The Jogger said:


> The sensible thing to do would be to offer early retirement to the over 60s initially, see the uptake and use this to keep the younger less vulnerable in jobs. Then look at options for the over 50s.



I'll take retirement at 50, with all my benefits intact !


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2020)

Well, thanks Boris and the local idiots.... Given infections have risen quite considerably 'else where' within the North West, it's those of us who have been 'careful' who are royally hissed off. 

I can't visit my parents, and my wife, after only being allowed to see her mum twice since February, can't see her. She was able to stand in the car park, and talk to her mum over 'skype' to her mum who was behind sealed windows of the care home - can't even do that now. We had to call her to say all her visits had been cancelled - she's quite upset as she's effectively living in prison. 

Some Welsh don't appear happy allowing 'the infected' in so I can see the caravan site shutting again.


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## winjim (3 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> There are large issues around moral hazard. This is a concept you probably don't understand.
> 
> If you own the store, it misses the point as you are creaming in the benefits, if you are a regular worker you aren't but taking those risks.
> 
> There are subtleties and different situations.


Do you know whether discrimination law applies to individual employees or to the business / owner? Because a shop owner who insists on enforcing mask wearing could put their employees in a very difficult position indeed.


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## Slick (3 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Do you know whether discrimination law applies to individual employees or to the business / owner? Because a shop owner who insists on enforcing mask wearing could put their employees in a very difficult position indeed.


Discrimination laws apply to everyone but employers are within their rights to ask employees to wear any additional PPE they deem necessary to keep their employees safe.


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## winjim (3 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Discrimination laws apply to everyone but employers are within their rights to ask employees to wear any additional PPE they deem necessary to keep their employees safe.


Actually I hadn't considered the wearing of PPE by employees, I was more concerned with employers asking their staff to break discrimination law by making them enforce the wearing of masks by customers.

I don't think an employer can require staff to wear PPE if they're exempt though.


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## Joey Shabadoo (3 Aug 2020)

First day back at work today and I've been going around factories and workshops. 5 companies so far, one solitary mask on view. No social distancing, one half hearted sign by a door about washing hands using the dispenser there, which was ignored by everybody.

I'm not surprised there is such a disconnect with some people when the rules aren't just flouted, they totally cease to exist in the workplace.

I'm sitting outside an office waiting to see someone just now because there are two guys in there coughing their guts up. Sitting in the rain is safer.


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## classic33 (3 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Actually I hadn't considered the wearing of PPE by employees, I was more concerned with employers asking their staff to break discrimination law by making them enforce the wearing of masks by customers.
> 
> I don't think an employer can require staff to wear PPE if they're exempt though.


To both, as individuals and as a company.

The ADA 2012 in America, has similar restrictions to the Equalities Act 2010 has here.


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## Slick (3 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Actually I hadn't considered the wearing of PPE by employees, I was more concerned with employers asking their staff to break discrimination law by making them enforce the wearing of masks by customers.
> 
> I don't think an employer can require staff to wear PPE if they're exempt though.


Ah, sorry. It's still pretty straightforward though as far as I can tell as employers can't ask employees to break any laws which is why it's up to the police to enforce mask wearing. 

Your last point could get a bit messy as employers can place you on unpaid leave if you no longer fit to carry out your duties which would eventually lead to redundancy. There could be other measures put in place depending on the circumstances, but as I said, potentially messy.


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2020)

We've had an official response about going on holiday and having to quarantine. Those who got caught out, then that's OK you'll get paid !

Those who go to a country now, have a choice of, if they can, work from home, or book extra leave or take unpaid leave. Seems fair.


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## matticus (3 Aug 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> First day back at work today and I've been going around factories and workshops. 5 companies so far, one solitary mask on view. No social distancing, one half hearted sign by a door about washing hands using the dispenser there, which was ignored by everybody.
> 
> I'm not surprised there is such a disconnect with some people when *the rules aren't just flouted, they totally cease to exist in the workplace*.
> 
> I'm sitting outside an office waiting to see someone just now because there are two guys in there coughing their guts up. Sitting in the rain is safer.


Not the case in our workplace. Or my partner's. Small sample, admittedly.

you'd hope that SOMEONE at your place would ring the alarm bell. But maybe not


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## The Jogger (3 Aug 2020)

slowmotion said:


> …...or was it merely rectifying a grotesquely unjust sexist policy that discriminated against males....?


Not that women haven't been discriminated against throughout their working life and still being discriminated against in the workplace with wages equality. It's a small price to pay to allow them to retire a bit earlier. Maybe you're the type of person who thinks women have had it easy, giving up their careers to bring up the kids and then returning to jobs like shop work and other low paid jobs. How dare they retire a bit early! Right? Wrong!


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## slowmotion (3 Aug 2020)

The Jogger said:


> Not that women haven't been discriminated against throughout their working life and still being discriminated against in the workplace with wages equality. It's a small price to pay to allow them to retire a bit earlier. Maybe you're the type of person who thinks women have had it easy, giving up their careers to bring up the kids and then returning to jobs like shop work and other low paid jobs. How dare they retire a bit early! Right? Wrong!


Er…..actually no.
Next question?


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## Accy cyclist (3 Aug 2020)

The Jogger said:


> Not that women haven't been discriminated against throughout their working life and still being discriminated against in the workplace with wages equality. It's a small price to pay to allow them to retire a bit earlier.


Wages inequality for doing exactly the same job as men,or doing a similar job? Plus, women on avarage live longer than men,so it'd be fairer to let men retire earlier than women.


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Do you know whether discrimination law applies to individual employees or to the business / owner? Because a shop owner who insists on enforcing mask wearing could put their employees in a very difficult position indeed.



They could.

It applies to both employers and employees (and even agents where money is exchanged). If it can be linked to the course of employment the employer may be found responsible (most often). The employee is responsible for all acts of discrimination although if they were told to do it by the employer and that it was correct and reasonably believed it was the right thing to do they would not be (unfortunately this does crop up). In practice there are all sorts of scenarios like in big companies where the employer turns on the employee, even if custom and practice or orders were given to do the wrong thing to the employee. Or it's just very unpleasant. Or rumours go around, or publicity.

Although stopping coronavirus wouldn't be disputed as a legitimate aim, the bit that's important is whether it's proportionate. Retail culture and other environments are not known for their sage and well planned health and safety and welfare of employees unfortunately. Outside the business, the theatre of public opinion, the media and the courts tend to take a much dimmer view. Especially as it's probably most likely to happen in a food shop, it's not likely to be regarded as proportionate.

Having said that, I do think some service providers such as councils and mental health services have not set a good example on discrimination and have just stuck two fingers up at some quite at vulnerable groups and these things also have an effect how the rest of business/society behaves, sadly.


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Ah, sorry. It's still pretty straightforward though as far as I can tell as employers can't ask employees to break any laws which is why it's up to the police to enforce mask wearing.



It's not that straightforward in the sense of the vain hope of it not happening: it's an offence in itself related to discrimination law, although there's some interesting debate on the size of the fine on that one vs how effective it might be (£5000).


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## Slick (3 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> It's not that straightforward in the sense of the vain hope of it not happening: it's an offence in itself related to discrimination law, although there's some interesting debate on the size of the fine on that one vs how effective it might be (£5000).


Not in Scotland that I'm aware off and the last I heard, there has only been one single fine issued. 

The straightforward that I referenced was in relation to employer responsibilities and why it should only be police enforcing laws and not bus drivers and shopkeepers.


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Not in Scotland that I'm aware off and the last I heard, there has only been one single fine issued.
> 
> The straightforward that I referenced was in relation to employer responsibilities and why it should only be police enforcing laws and not bus drivers and shopkeepers.



Well it could be worse, they could be fining the workers for not enforcing laws.

It seems unsatisfactory for a large variety of reasons, the biggest one being that mask wearing has jumped from about 25% to 80-90%.

The workplaces where many are not required to either by law or company policies may need looking at towards winter.


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## lane (3 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> Well it could be worse, they could be fining the workers for not enforcing laws.
> 
> It seems unsatisfactory for a large variety of reasons, the biggest one being that mask wearing has jumped from about 25% to 80-90%.
> 
> The workplaces where many are not required to either by law or company policies may need looking at towards winter.



Do you mean workplaces that are not required to wear masks or not required to enforce the wearing of masks?


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2020)

lane said:


> Do you mean workplaces that are not required to wear masks or not required to enforce the wearing of masks?



To wear.


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## DCLane (4 Aug 2020)

Son no. 2's not happy as he can't compete in his cycling nationals this year - it's just been confirmed. He'd have to quarantine for 14 days once arriving in Ireland and it's not possible for him.

The stupid people meeting up and catching this have basically ruined every event he'd been preparing for this year.


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## Accy cyclist (4 Aug 2020)

Good lord,moobs and belly man here's having a right old rant at the 'model' for not wearing a mask.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Instagram-model-task-refusing-wear-mask.html
He rants/asks if she has a medical exemption. If he asked me that i'd say "Yes,i'm allergic to fat gobby self-gratification artists like yourself"!!


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## C R (4 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Good lord,moobs and belly man here's having a right old rant at the 'model' for not wearing a mask.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Instagram-model-task-refusing-wear-mask.html
> He rants/asks if she has a medical exemption. If he asked me that i'd say "Yes,i'm allergic to fat gobby self-gratification artists like yourself"!!


And that's why we can't have nice things.


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## winjim (4 Aug 2020)

C R said:


> And that's why we can't have nice things.


To be fair, the correct answer to anybody asking if you have a medical exemption is 'fark off'.


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## lane (4 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> Well it could be worse, they could be fining the workers for not enforcing laws.
> 
> It seems unsatisfactory for a large variety of reasons, the biggest one being that mask wearing has jumped from about 25% to 80-90%.
> 
> The workplaces where many are not required to either by law or company policies may need looking at towards winter.



Interesting to see how this plays out. Some schools currently banning masks for teachers and students, some allowing and some requiring them. Possibly not the clearest message.


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## Slick (4 Aug 2020)

lane said:


> Interesting to see how this plays out. Some schools currently banning masks for teachers and students, some allowing and some requiring them. Possibly not the clearest message.


That is interesting. We as a college are now mandating them for everyone in every setting with no exceptions. If you can't wear a mask you are not getting in.


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## C R (4 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> That is interesting. We as a college are now mandating them for everyone in every setting with no exceptions. If you can't wear a mask you are not getting in.


At our daughters high school they are mandating masks in the corridors, to be removed in the classroom, but as they change classroom five times a day that means five times putting a mask on and five times taking it off every school day. I can't this that is any less risky than not wearing one.


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## MntnMan62 (4 Aug 2020)

lane said:


> Interesting to see how this plays out. Some schools currently banning masks for teachers and students, some allowing and some requiring them. Possibly not the clearest message.



That just shows you how divided people are about how to approach this entire virus. There are those who understand what is at stake, value human life and are willing to do their small part to try and bring this thing under control. Then there are those who only think about themselves, deny the science and don't care that people are dying. It's really just as simple as that.


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## marinyork (4 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> That just shows you how divided people are about how to approach this entire virus. There are those who understand what is at stake, value human life and are willing to do their small part to try and bring this thing under control. Then there are those who only think about themselves, deny the science and don't care that people are dying. It's really just as simple as that.



If only it was that simple.


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## Slick (4 Aug 2020)

C R said:


> At our daughters high school they are mandating masks in the corridors, to be removed in the classroom, but as they change classroom five times a day that means five times putting a mask on and five times taking it off every school day. I can't this that is any less risky than not wearing one.


I think it sounds more risky. 

Why is the classroom mask free? I would have thought that is where the danger is.


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## C R (4 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> I think it sounds more risky.
> 
> Why is the classroom mask free? I would have thought that is where the danger is.


The whole thing is really messy. I would have thought that keeping the group in one classroom and have the teachers come to them would be simpler and reduce the number of contacts. What the school seem to be doing is trying at all costs to not make any changes to their routine and coming up with highly complex procedures to give the impression that they are doing something.


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## MntnMan62 (4 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> If only it was that simple.



It actually is that simple. Unfortunately those who fall into the second category also try and make it seem more complicated so they can try and rationalize the simple fact that they are selfish, deny the science, don't care about people dying and value money more than human life. It is without a doubt as simple as that.


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## Slick (4 Aug 2020)

C R said:


> The whole thing is really messy. I would have thought that keeping the group in one classroom and have the teachers come to them would be simpler and reduce the number of contacts. What the school seem to be doing is trying at all costs to not make any changes to their routine and coming up with highly complex procedures to give the impression that they are doing something.


Sounds about right. Another thing we are putting in place is class bubbles, so groups must stay together but isolate from other groups. Lunch will be delivered to classrooms and the games room has been closed. They really wanted to shut the staffroom but I managed to keep that open as long as the distancing is maintained and monitored.


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## C R (4 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Sounds about right. Another thing we are putting in place is class bubbles, so groups must stay together but isolate from other groups. Lunch will be delivered to classrooms and the games room has been closed. They really wanted to shut the staffroom but I managed to keep that open as long as the distancing is maintained and monitored.


That sounds much more sensible.


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## lane (4 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> That is interesting. We as a college are now mandating them for everyone in every setting with no exceptions. If you can't wear a mask you are not getting in.



Yes my son is going to a 6th form college in September and certainly staff will be wearing visors and I think students have to as well (although not entirely clear on that). My wife works at a college and staff are allowed to wear a mask if they want to and students must wear them in the corridors but not classrooms. However Government advice is that they are not required in school and my daughter is going to a school where the wearing of masks is banned for both students and staff. Nonsensical and inconsistent.


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## classic33 (4 Aug 2020)

Another letter, from another specialist, saying that due to the current conditions, any further treatment will have to be via my GP. That ends all hospital treatment for the foreseeable future.

I can't even get an appointment with the GP. Next hospital visit may well be an A&E department. Not by choice either.

I'm getting a bit cynical now and wondering if the current situation is being used to get rid of some on waiting lists, thereby making them shorter. A third annual review being the one cancelled today.

I can't be the only one in this situation. But what about the knock on effect of not being treated, it's simply left snowballing.


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## lane (4 Aug 2020)

C R said:


> The whole thing is really messy. I would have thought that keeping the group in one classroom and have the teachers come to them would be simpler and reduce the number of contacts. What the school seem to be doing is trying at all costs to not make any changes to their routine and coming up with highly complex procedures to give the impression that they are doing something.



I am assuming a secondary school. Problem is that students don't stay with each other all the time due to setting and taking different subjects so it's not really possible for them to stay in the same classroom. Also government guidance is that the bubble of students who do not mix with others consists of a year group which will be 200 or even 300 students depending on the size of the school.


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## Slick (4 Aug 2020)

lane said:


> Yes my son is going to a 6th form college in September and certainly staff will be wearing visors and I think students have to as well (although not entirely clear on that). My wife works at a college and staff are allowed to wear a mask if they want to and students must wear them in the corridors but not classrooms. However Government advice is that they are not required in school and my daughter is going to a school where the wearing of masks is banned for both students and staff. Nonsensical and inconsistent.


That was pretty much the chat for us as well until someone finally had a brainwave, and think I'm quite happy about it. I'm sure they will come to terms with exemptions as well, eventually.


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## matticus (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> That just shows you how divided people are about how to approach this entire virus. There are those who understand what is at stake, value human life and are willing to do their small part to try and bring this thing under control. Then there are those who only think about themselves, deny the science and don't care that people are dying. It's really just as simple as that.


People have a _spectrum _of approaches to risk, even where the science is crystal clear (e.g. how fast to drive on a motorway).
Don't think that because you do something differently to someone, you are in the good guys, and they are in the bad guys.


Safety is not binary, Risk Assessments are never black and white.


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## classic33 (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> It actually is that simple. Unfortunately those who fall into the second category also try and make it seem more complicated so they can try and rationalize the simple fact that they are selfish, deny the science, don't care about people dying and value money more than human life. It is without a doubt as simple as that.


You're the only one mentioning money.


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## Rusty Nails (5 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> Another letter, from another specialist, saying that due to the current conditions, any further treatment will have to be via my GP. That ends all hospital treatment for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I can't even get an appointment with the GP. Next hospital visit may well be an A&E department. Not by choice either.
> 
> ...



My wife has just been told that her annual post-leukaemia review will take place by phone this year. No prior blood tests to be carried out.


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## marinyork (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> It actually is that simple. Unfortunately those who fall into the second category also try and make it seem more complicated so they can try and rationalize the simple fact that they are selfish, deny the science, don't care about people dying and value money more than human life. It is without a doubt as simple as that.



I wish you luck in November for your re-election campaign.


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## lane (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> People have a _spectrum _of approaches to risk, even where the science is crystal clear (e.g. how fast to drive on a motorway).
> Don't think that because you do something differently to someone, you are in the good guys, and they are in the bad guys.
> 
> 
> Safety is not binary, Risk Assessments are never black and white.



There is a speed limit on the motorway. If you are driving at 100mph you are the bad guy even if you think it is safe.


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## lane (5 Aug 2020)

The guidance on schools seems to put a great deal of emphasis on extra cleaning; which is all well and good but only deals with one potential source of transmission. I would anticipate quite a few cases in schools, because children are generally asymptomatic and there is nothing in the way of social distancing required.


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## Accy cyclist (5 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> Another letter, from another specialist, saying that due to the current conditions, any further treatment will have to be via my GP. That ends all hospital treatment for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I can't even get an appointment with the GP. Next hospital visit may well be an A&E department. Not by choice either.
> 
> ...


I've been waiting three weeks for an appointment at the hospital to see someone regarding my now very hard to walk on right hip and leg. No doubt when the appointment eventually arrives i'll have at least a month before i can see someone. I'm wondering if i was younger, producing and paying income tax would i be higher up the waiting list.


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## classic33 (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> It actually is that simple. Unfortunately those who fall into the second category also try and make it seem more complicated so they can try and rationalize the simple fact that they are selfish, deny the science, don't care about people dying and value money more than human life. It is without a doubt as simple as that.


I was already in trouble, medically, prior to this. I've done the best over the years to minimise the impact to others, and the health system. 

Five years ago, it cost £350 for an Ambulance to attend in the street, and take me to an A&E. More if an FRU was sent out as well*. Add in treatment and the cost rises.

It's all change now, with me being left to my own devices to manage. It's not a readily visible condition, but visible to get me classed as a drunk or on drugs on first impressions. The brain has the answer to most comments, the mouth is unable to deliver those answers at times.

I've been T-boned by a car, and I can safely say that the day after being hit I didn't feel as sore as after a seizure. These happen/occur on almost a daily basis. They leave the mouth swollen, the airway "burnt", making breathing awkward and noisy. 

Which has the bigger impact, I can't say. Two! tests and both were negative.

*It's odd the things you talk about, to pass the time whilst waiting to be admitted.


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## matticus (5 Aug 2020)

lane said:


> There is a speed limit on the motorway. If you are driving at 100mph you are the bad guy even if you think it is safe.


You've completely missed the point!
EDIT: which - surprisingly - wasn't actually about motorway driving.


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## lane (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> You've completely missed the point!



OK


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## lane (5 Aug 2020)

He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:



> The risk then is that big schools, comprehensives, universities, FE [further education] colleges link lots of households together, reconnect the social network, which social distancing measures have deliberately disconnected. And that poses a real risk of amplification of transmission, of case numbers going up quite sharply.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hildrens-commissioner-covid-19-latest-updates


----------



## MntnMan62 (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> People have a _spectrum _of approaches to risk, even where the science is crystal clear (e.g. how fast to drive on a motorway).
> Don't think that because you do something differently to someone, you are in the good guys, and they are in the bad guys.
> 
> 
> Safety is not binary, Risk Assessments are never black and white.



Sorry but when the issues that are at risk and competing against one another are economic or life and death, life and death wins every time. Those who choose economic are the bad guys. Sorry. And the science I'm referring to is the many studies and the practical real life results the entire planet has seen from using masks. They work. For both the wearer and the other person. Period.


----------



## MntnMan62 (5 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> You're the only one mentioning money.



Uh, no, I'm not.


----------



## MntnMan62 (5 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> I wish you luck in November for your re-election campaign.



Not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll assume you actually mean that, to which I say thank you.


----------



## classic33 (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> Sorry but when the issues that are at risk and competing against one another are economic or life and death, life and death wins every time. *Those who choose economic *are the bad guys. Sorry. And the science I'm referring to is the many studies and the practical real life results the entire planet has seen *from using masks. They work. For both the wearer and the other person. Period.*


That's the subject of another thread, this one is about how people are/have been affected by the current situation.

And the piece in italic bold is money. Something you're not mentioning.


----------



## Mrs M (5 Aug 2020)

Aberdeen in lockdown again for next 7 days.
Breach of social distancing in the pubs, 54 new cases (so far).
I despair.


----------



## matticus (5 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> Sorry but when the issues that are at risk and competing against one another are economic or life and death, life and death wins every time. Those who choose economic are the bad guys. Sorry. And the science I'm referring to is the many studies and the practical real life results the entire planet has seen from using masks. They work. For both the wearer and the other person. Period.


Let's look at this more closely, in 3 simple points:
- You started talking about re-opening schools, and how this was dangerous. How did children get morphed into an economic issue?
- The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.
- Everyone's circumstances are different - so you can't know what their risks are. Your binary classification of the world's population is therefore absurd.

Period.


----------



## Rocky (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> - *The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.*


I am afraid you are wrong on this point. Here's an article from the University of California setting out the science. 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

With regards to risks, the major harm comes from people talking about perceived risks where, actually, there are no risks. Marteau's article in the BMJ sums this up:

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2913


----------



## Andy in Germany (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> - The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.





Brompton Bruce said:


> I am afraid you are wrong on this point.



Apart from anything else, the notion that face masks are ineffective and possibly counterproductive would be a shock to generations of doctors and could _revolutionise_ surgical procedure.


----------



## MntnMan62 (5 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> That's the subject of another thread, this one is about how people are/have been affected by the current situation.
> 
> And the piece in italic bold is money. Something you're not mentioning.



How is the requirement to wear masks about money? The science backs their use. Full stop.


----------



## Rocky (5 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Apart from anything else, the notion that face masks are ineffective and possibly counterproductive would be a shock to generations of doctors and could _revolutionise_ surgical procedure.


That's a very good point you make!!


----------



## MntnMan62 (5 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> Let's look at this more closely, in 3 simple points:
> - You started talking about re-opening schools, and how this was dangerous. How did children get morphed into an economic issue?
> - The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.
> - Everyone's circumstances are different - so you can't know what their risks are. Your binary classification of the world's population is therefore absurd.
> ...



And there are competing studies that are saying that the science behind masks is that they work, for both the wearer and those around them. What's amazing is that people look to so called "studies" yet no one is willing to see that when people social distanced and wore masks, the number of cases and deaths went down significantly. And once people decided they were done with social distancing and wearing masks, the numbers of cases and deaths has skyrocketed. How is that not the best scientific study there is?


----------



## Slick (5 Aug 2020)

Mrs M said:


> Aberdeen in lockdown again for next 7 days.
> Breach of social distancing in the pubs, 54 new cases (so far).
> I despair.


I nearly tagged you in the other thread as I was hearing murmurings of a lockdown last night and wondered if you knew more.

Take care.


----------



## Mrs M (5 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> I nearly tagged you in the other thread as I was hearing murmurings of a lockdown last night and wondered if you knew more.
> 
> Take care.


Thanks, will do 
I recently requested to work from home and this will be happening soon.
We’re 7 miles from the city so less risk, hopefully.


----------



## matticus (6 Aug 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> And there are competing studies that are saying that the science behind masks is that they work, for both the wearer and those around them. What's amazing is that people look to so called "studies" yet no one is willing to see that *when people social distanced and wore masks, the number of cases and deaths went down significantly. * And once people decided they were done with social distancing and wearing masks, the numbers of cases and deaths has skyrocketed. How is that not the best scientific study there is?


It's a very poor study of MASK wearing!

This is really simple - masks have a very small benefit (most of you have seen the studies and WHO statements, you don't need ME to show them to you again). Lockdowns (i.e. staying the feck away from other people) are far more effective.
If this person* wants to get all frothy over mask-wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.


*EDIT: What I actually wrote was a term for a group who love each-other, and engage in internet pile-ons rather than engage in reasoned debate. The mods quite rightly removed it for being a bit OTT


----------



## fossyant (6 Aug 2020)

Lots of folk still not getting it, my son being one. Posted else where I had a barney with him last night. He's been mixing with quite a few friends over the last week, despite the new rules around Gtr Manchester. The Govt need to stop messing about and saying you can't be in someone's garden, when they allow folk to meet up inside a pub or else where. Basically stay away from anyone other than those you live with or are in the support bubble (said bubble gets interpreted as folk feel). 

This isn't going away.


----------



## matticus (6 Aug 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I am afraid you are wrong on this point. Here's an article from the University of California setting out the science.
> 
> https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
> 
> ...


Bruce, do you realise that everything I wrote is backed up by something in 1 (or both) of your citations? 

Thankyou for your endorsement (although it was a bit back-handed :P )


----------



## MntnMan62 (6 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> It's a very poor study of MASK wearing!
> 
> This is really simple - masks have a very small benefit (most of you have seen the studies and WHO statements, you don't need ME to show them to you again). Lockdowns (i.e. staying the feck away from other people) are far more effective.
> If this person* wants to get all frothy over mask-wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.
> ...



https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

This is really simple - masks provide a significant benefit to both those who wear the mask and those in proximity of the mask wearer (most of you have seen the studies but here are the current recommendations and basis for those recommendations from three different highly respected medical research facilities. And contrary to this poster's comments, the WHO guidance is to wear masks.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/who-updates-guidance-on-masks-heres-what-to-know-now/

If this person wants to get all frothy over mask wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.


----------



## classic33 (6 Aug 2020)

How about taking the mask wearing debate to the main corona virus thread?
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/


----------



## matticus (6 Aug 2020)

OK, you've convinced me. As I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations, it's clear I am in the 2nd half of your binary classification system:


MntnMan62 said:


> That just shows you how divided people are about how to approach this entire virus. There are those who understand what is at stake, value human life and are willing to do their small part to try and bring this thing under control. * Then there are those who only think about themselves, deny the science and don't care that people are dying. It's really just as simple as that.*


I suggest you block me, and furthermore report me to the police and whichever deity you worship.


Wow, I feel so much better now! Life was complicated with spectrums of views and awkward "probablities" :-( Now I know that life is simple and certain! Everything is black and white - it's so clear now.


----------



## matticus (6 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> How about taking the mask wearing debate to the main corona virus thread?
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/


To be fair, this sub-topic isn't about mask wearing - it's about HOW WE FEEL about what others do! And how we feel better by criticising others. have you tried it??


----------



## MntnMan62 (6 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> OK, you've convinced me. As I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations, it's clear I am in the 2nd half of your binary classification system:
> 
> I suggest you block me, and furthermore report me to the police and whichever deity you worship.
> 
> ...



Well, isn't that just special. I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations and it's clear you don't even bother reading what I post. I suggest you block me and report me to the police or whatever right wing fanatical group you belong to. I won't be blocking you because you make it so easy to show how little you know about anything. Picking your dated and incorrect information is just too easy. And fun too. If only things were so clear to you.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (6 Aug 2020)

*Mod note:*

Reading back a few pages a few snarky remarks have appeared in this thread - please stop.

If it continues we will take the thread offline until it can be cleaned up and, as it is very topical, we are not too keen on doing that.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.


----------



## Julia9054 (7 Aug 2020)

Was going to take my parents out for lunch for my dad's 83rd birthday next week. Haven't seen them for months. They live in Preston so I guess that's out of the question now.


----------



## Milzy (7 Aug 2020)

I went for a pub meal. Scanned in. Used gel. Had an amazing meal & a few pints of Guinness. The other tables did seem too close. If I was vulnerable or scared no way I would have been in there. The eat out scheme tempted me into a risky situation. I must go to confession about this matter.


----------



## DCLane (7 Aug 2020)

Track racing resumed yesterday at Newcastle-under-Lyme. Really well organised with a screening questionnaire, temperature check, gel everywhere. Riders in separate groups with no spectators for safety, meaning my son was with his group away from mine.


----------



## winjim (8 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> You should get the results back in 24-48hrs. I send mine away on Thursday and get the results by text Fri pm or Sat am.


Hmm, bit of a delay this week, haven't had my results back yet. It would be wrong of me to feel too aggrieved though, I've got analysers to fix and delayed assays to sort out myself when I get back to work on Monday...


----------



## Salty seadog (8 Aug 2020)

So many bellies, shaved heads and vests.
Yuk.



Mugshot said:


> Sounds like a FNRTTC!



Oi, I resemble that remark.


----------



## lane (8 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> Lots of folk still not getting it, my son being one. Posted else where I had a barney with him last night. He's been mixing with quite a few friends over the last week, despite the new rules around Gtr Manchester. The Govt need to stop messing about and saying you can't be in someone's garden, when they allow folk to meet up inside a pub or else where. Basically stay away from anyone other than those you live with or are in the support bubble (said bubble gets interpreted as folk feel).
> 
> This isn't going away.



Totally agree too many mixed messages and too many competing priorities. What I see in Scotland seems much clearer.


----------



## Andy in Germany (9 Aug 2020)

While our riding today I noticed this advert; it's for a smart phone based ticket for local transport: the RVF is the local transport authority, covering all trains, buses and trams in Freiburg and a large chunk of the Black Forest.






It took a second before I realised the woman pictured is holding a mask.

On a positive and unrelated note, it's interesting that the model used is clearly not an ethnic German; the non-white population of Germany has increased dramatically over the last 20 years or so* and it is gratifying to see that the transport authority at least has recognised this and is presenting it as normal.

*_I'm half responsible for four ethnically half-Asian German citizens, before someone jumps on me..._


----------



## Rusty Nails (9 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> While our riding today I noticed this advert; it's for a smart phone based ticket for local transport: the RVF is the local transport authority, covering all trains, buses and trams in Freiburg and a large chunk of the Black Forest.
> 
> View attachment 540649
> 
> ...



Not everything about ethnic minorities in Germany is so positive.: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/reader-center/german-identity.html

Is it true that Germany does not keep statistics of its non-white population numbers? Why?
https://qz.com/1078032/can-germany-combat-inequality-when-it-has-no-data-on-race/


----------



## Andy in Germany (9 Aug 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Not everything about ethnic minorities in Germany is so positive.:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/reader-center/german-identity.html
> 
> Is it true that Germany does not keep statistics of its non-white population numbers? Why?
> https://qz.com/1078032/can-germany-combat-inequality-when-it-has-no-data-on-race/



Of course it isn't, the former DDR states especially have a problem. I deal with people who make racist statements every day, although that's probably partly because of the nature of my job. That's why I find it good that there are efforts being made to present people of different ethnicities as part of the culture.

Outside of work it is never an issue and most people don't mention it, although they do comment on my accent: apparently I have an American accent when I speak German. Our kids have never had a problem, and they are obviously not Ethnically "pure" Europeans.

I've heard before about Germany not keeping data on ethnicity: as the article says, in theory that means we are all equal before the law, but I can see the disadvantages. I just checked and my ID card gives my eye colour and height but not my skin colour or ethnicity.


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## Chris S (11 Aug 2020)

I thought this was a joke but it isn't!
*Coronavirus: 'Wear a face mask during sex to stop spread' - health experts say*
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/new...eBR2mi1v_QU41p3WmcSIUl9w_01LDDndIXCCizo_NgSM8


----------



## HMS_Dave (11 Aug 2020)

Chris S said:


> I thought this was a joke but it isn't!
> *Coronavirus: 'Wear a face mask during sex to stop spread' - health experts say*
> https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/new...eBR2mi1v_QU41p3WmcSIUl9w_01LDDndIXCCizo_NgSM8



Covid Symptoms - Check
Wash hands for 20 seconds - Check
Put on a fresh mask - Check
Contraception - Check
No face to face intercourse - Check

Desire to have sex - Gone...


----------



## marinyork (12 Aug 2020)

The BBC version of the story was in the top 10 most read pages yesterday.


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## Rickshaw Phil (13 Aug 2020)

Having enjoyed a trip to the pub last Saturday for the first time since lockdown, this really is not the headline I wanted to see in the local paper : Shrewsbury pub shuts for deep clean after customer tests positive for Covid-19

Fortunately The Boathouse operates on booked time slots and we'd left before that group arrived but it still feels a bit close for comfort.


----------



## MrGrumpy (13 Aug 2020)

I just wont bother going out for dinner or the pub. Never a big pub goer anyway but we did eat out a alot.


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## winjim (13 Aug 2020)

We took the kids to the pub on Tuesday evening, on the recommendation of a friend. It is not an experience I would wish to repeat.


----------



## marinyork (13 Aug 2020)

I checked out a venue asked by many acquaintances/friends online. The website gushes all this nonsense about being safe and changes and opening later which I bought into. It's twaddle.

They took out 3 tables in the middle, hand sanitiser, booking (de facto before), no ordering at the bar and no other changes. Supposedly bubbles only . I know every square inch of that venue from before all this. Very, very scary. I feel like reporting them to the council in a drinking in cupboards kinda way was unsafe. Sadly they would probably pass as 'covid secure'.

Going for a haircut later and I feel sorry for the barber, their precautions are the most advanced I have seen or heard of outside some areas of hospitals. I actually believe the risk there is a lot lower.


----------



## gavgav (13 Aug 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Having enjoyed a trip to the pub last Saturday for the first time since lockdown, this really is not the headline I wanted to see in the local paper : Shrewsbury pub shuts for deep clean after customer tests positive for Covid-19
> 
> Fortunately The Boathouse operates on booked time slots and we'd left before that group arrived but it still feels a bit close for comfort.


It’s about as close for comfort as we could have got! Suddenly my slowly returning confidence, for being out, has been eroded again!


----------



## gbb (13 Aug 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Having enjoyed a trip to the pub last Saturday for the first time since lockdown, this really is not the headline I wanted to see in the local paper : Shrewsbury pub shuts for deep clean after customer tests positive for Covid-19
> 
> Fortunately The Boathouse operates on booked time slots and we'd left before that group arrived but it still feels a bit close for comfort.





winjim said:


> We took the kids to the pub on Tuesday evening, on the recommendation of a friend. It is not an experience I would wish to repeat.


I mentioned in another post while everyone was in lockdown and I worked throughout, and based on my experiences a lot of people are going to feel very uncomfortable with the reality of mixing with people once things start getting back to normal, but I also have another thought..
I work in a very busy factory with a staff of circa 400 to 500 people. A great deal of them treat covid like it's a joke. We at the last count have had around 35 confirmed cases.
I touch equipment, machinery surfaces, buttons, screens endlessly that other staff have to, social distancing is not properly achievable and yet, I sanitise regularly all day, avoid close contact as much as reasonably possible and havnt caught the virus..despite what would be horrifying conditions to the uninitiated. It's a thousand times worse than what you see outside.
So I've been remarkably lucky...or the general advise, wash and sanitise hands, dont touch your face, mouth, nose etc, distance as much as you can, actually probably works

I'm probably temping fate having said that. 

We went for a Toby carvery last week and thoroughly enjoyed it, steps taken by staff seemed appropriate but...I couldn't help thinking, yeah but suppose one of the servers has covid and theyve just touched my glass, dinner plate, cutlery ?


----------



## IaninSheffield (14 Aug 2020)

https://xkcd.com/2346/​


----------



## All uphill (14 Aug 2020)

gbb said:


> I mentioned in another post while everyone was in lockdown and I worked throughout, and based on my experiences a lot of people are going to feel very uncomfortable with the reality of mixing with people once things start getting back to normal, but I also have another thought..
> I work in a very busy factory with a staff of circa 400 to 500 people. A great deal of them treat covid like it's a joke. We at the last count have had around 35 confirmed cases.
> I touch equipment, machinery surfaces, buttons, screens endlessly that other staff have to, social distancing is not properly achievable and yet, I sanitise regularly all day, avoid close contact as much as reasonably possible and havnt caught the virus..despite what would be horrifying conditions to the uninitiated. It's a thousand times worse than what you see outside.
> So I've been remarkably lucky...or the general advise, wash and sanitise hands, dont touch your face, mouth, nose etc, distance as much as you can, actually probably works
> ...


I'm glad you have managed to stay healthy @gbb , long may it stay that way! I'm guessing you have been tested negative and know you are not asymptomatic?

Our son is at the other extreme; he worked from home from March, was, frankly, a wee bit obsessive about distancing and hygiene, but caught it, and is now slowly recovering. 
He can identify two occasions in the right timeframe when individuals near him in a supermarket coughed. Seems that's all it took.


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

I received a letter the other day from my local hospital regarding my appointment to see someone about my hip/leg problem. I'm having serious mobility problems. I presume my GP mentioned this when she contacted them 4 weeks ago. The letter said words to the affect of 'now that we're back up and running as normal'. My appointment is for Monday the 4th of January 2021! Is that back up and running as normal?🤔


----------



## raleighnut (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I received a letter the other day from my local hospital regarding my appointment to see someone about my hip/leg problem. I'm having serious mobility problems. I presume my GP mentioned this when she contacted them 4 weeks ago. The letter said words to the affect of 'now that we're back up and running as normal'. My appointment is for Monday the 4th of January 2021! Is that back up and running as normal?🤔


You've got an appointment that soon.


----------



## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2020)

The police have been checking that people wear masks on public transport here, as with the UK no action is taken beyond reminding people if they then put a mask on. If they refuse though the fines are pretty stiff.

The metro was showing three ways _not _to wear a mask (With nose uncovered, under chin and hanging off one ear) and we had close to 100% mask wearing on the train yesterday.


----------



## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I received a letter the other day from my local hospital regarding my appointment to see someone about my hip/leg problem. I'm having serious mobility problems. I presume my GP mentioned this when she contacted them 4 weeks ago. The letter said words to the affect of 'now that we're back up and running as normal'. My appointment is for Monday the 4th of January 2021! Is that back up and running as normal?🤔



Reminds me of the East German response to that sort of letter: "Oh, no, that's when the Plumber is coming..."


----------



## DCLane (15 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> The police have been checking that people wear masks on public transport here, as with the UK no action is taken beyond reminding people if they then put a mask on. If they refuse though the fines are pretty stiff.
> 
> The metro was showing three ways _not _to wear a mask (With nose uncovered, under chin and hanging off one ear) and we had close to 100% mask wearing on the train yesterday.



I ended up on two trains yesterday; Castleford-Leeds about half were wearing them, Leeds-Dewsbury all were. No checks on anyone though.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (15 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> I checked out a venue asked by many acquaintances/friends online. The website gushes all this nonsense about being safe and changes and opening later which I bought into. It's twaddle.
> 
> They took out 3 tables in the middle, hand sanitiser, booking (de facto before), no ordering at the bar and no other changes. Supposedly bubbles only . I know every square inch of that venue from before all this. Very, very scary. I feel like reporting them to the council in a drinking in cupboards kinda way was unsafe. Sadly they would probably pass as 'covid secure'.



If you don't want to mix with other people, then don't socialise. No-one is forcing you to. 
'Spoons has been really busy lately on the normally quiet days because of the half price food incentive. There's been more customers than normal in at times, not less. They have put some sanitisers out (which hardly anyone uses) , track & trace forms (that hardly anyone fills in) and dividing screens up here and there, but most of us just drink with whoever we normally sit with, regardless of any stuff about bubbles and household mixing. People are being sensible when waiting to be served, not crowding at the bar, and generally sticking to their own regular social groups.
There hasn't been any explosion in virus cases and we've been doing that for over five weeks, which tends to suggest a lot of the doom-mongering was just the chattering classes with too much time on their hands to spend pontificating. The fact that the current death figures are low and staying low tells you all you need to know that most of the increase in cases is coming from increased testing, not increased infection rates, and a few dozen deaths per day from one particular cause in a 60+ million population is not even worth talking about. The hysteria and risk aversion surrounding the virus is far worse than the actual virus.


----------



## Rocky (15 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you don't want to mix with other people, then don't socialise. No-one is forcing you to.
> 'Spoons has been really busy lately on the normally quiet days because of the half price food incentive. There's been more customers than normal in at times, not less. They have put some sanitisers out (which hardly anyone uses) , track & trace forms (that hardly anyone fills in) and dividing screens up here and there, but most of us just drink with whoever we normally sit with, regardless of any stuff about bubbles and household mixing. People are being sensible when waiting to be served, not crowding at the bar, and generally sticking to their own regular social groups.
> There hasn't been any explosion in virus cases and we've been doing that for over five weeks, which tends to suggest a lot of the doom-mongering was just the chattering classes with too much time on their hands to spend pontificating. The fact that the current death figures are low and staying low tells you all you need to know that most of the increase in cases is coming from increased testing, not increased infection rates, and a few dozen deaths per day from one particular cause in a 60+ million population is not even worth talking about. The hysteria and risk aversion surrounding the virus is far worse than the actual virus.


The hysteria.......perhaps tell that to the friends and relatives of the 41358 people who have died of Covid. Tell it to my son, a junior doctor who has been working 12 hr shifts on Covid wards. He’ll tell you about spending time with people who are literally drowning as their lungs give up. He’ll tell you about holding his phone to the ear of those patients so they can hear one last message from their loved ones.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (15 Aug 2020)

Spare me the pious virtue signalling sermon. I'm well aware thousands have died from the virus and thousands more will die from the virus in the weeks and months to come.
That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society, just like car crashes, train crashes, domestic & industrial accidents, idiots getting pissed up and falling in rivers, OD'ing on drugs or any number of other causes of fatalities.
People do risky things that kill them, and people catch things that kill them, of which the coronavirus is just one more thing added to the thousands of other things that already exist. It's what happens in the real world, and has done since the beginning of mankind.


----------



## Rocky (15 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Spare me the pious virtue signalling sermon. I'm well aware thousands have died from the virus and thousands more will die from the virus in the weeks and months to come.
> That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society, just like car crashes, train crashes, domestic & industrial accidents, idiots getting pissed up and falling in rivers, OD'ing on drugs or any number of other causes of fatalities.
> People do risky things that kill them, and people catch things that kill them, of which the coronavirus is just one more thing added to the thousands of other things that already exist. It's what happens in the real world, and has done since the beginning of mankind.


Thank you for belittling the contribution made by my son and all our medics. Dismiss my post as virtue signalling. You don’t have to deal with the psychological damage that he is suffering from having seen things that no one should have to witness at his age.


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## winjim (15 Aug 2020)

It's like society never happened.


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## marinyork (15 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you don't want to mix with other people, then don't socialise. No-one is forcing you to.
> 'Spoons has been really busy lately on the normally quiet days because of the half price food incentive. There's been more customers than normal in at times, not less. They have put some sanitisers out (which hardly anyone uses) , track & trace forms (that hardly anyone fills in) and dividing screens up here and there, but most of us just drink with whoever we normally sit with, regardless of any stuff about bubbles and household mixing. People are being sensible when waiting to be served, not crowding at the bar, and generally sticking to their own regular social groups.
> There hasn't been any explosion in virus cases and we've been doing that for over five weeks, which tends to suggest a lot of the doom-mongering was just the chattering classes with too much time on their hands to spend pontificating. The fact that the current death figures are low and staying low tells you all you need to know that most of the increase in cases is coming from increased testing, not increased infection rates, and a few dozen deaths per day from one particular cause in a 60+ million population is not even worth talking about. The hysteria and risk aversion surrounding the virus is far worse than the actual virus.



The post was really about the huge variation in places.

Forcing doesn't really have much to do with it. A subtle clue was I went to check out a venue for other people. There was a reason why they didn't do it. I'm fairly relaxed about socialising outdoors, with very small groups of people, especially ones that I judge to be lower risk. Most people I know don't want/can't socialise. If you ask people to go to x they will say they can't travel. Other people don't have the time. Others are very wary of meeting anyone outside their household. Some will just plain tell you they've got used to staying indoors. Some are having a nightmare working from home and are busier or more childcare/other caring commitments. 

I have one friend who is socialising pretty much as normal, get invited to a pub on a regular basis and he's getting cheesed off and the invites are slowly dying off. That's it. Nobody else really wants/can socialise much.

Pubs reopened on 3rd July. I would give it another month or so of virus levels staying the same before I feel like you do.


----------



## All uphill (15 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Spare me the pious virtue signalling sermon. I'm well aware thousands have died from the virus and thousands more will die from the virus in the weeks and months to come.
> That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society, just like car crashes, train crashes, domestic & industrial accidents, idiots getting pissed up and falling in rivers, OD'ing on drugs or any number of other causes of fatalities.
> People do risky things that kill them, and people catch things that kill them, of which the coronavirus is just one more thing added to the thousands of other things that already exist. It's what happens in the real world, and has done since the beginning of mankind.


Now I'm going to have "The Miller of Dee" running through my head all day; you know that old song,

"I care for nobody, no not I, and nobody cares for me."


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

Why am i having to wait nearly 5 months to see someone about my hip/leg?! it's quite serious and will only get worse in those next 4/5 months. Are the 'elderly' being put to the back of the queue?


----------



## Rocky (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Why am i having to wait nearly 5 months to see someone about my hip/leg?! it's quite serious and will only get worse in those next 4/5 months. Are the 'elderly' being put to the back of the queue?


My mother who is 88 is getting a nerve block injection on her back next month. She had been waiting for about two months, which seems pretty good to me. Her GP has been great about helping get her seen by the NHS orthopods. I guess it varies by area. I hope you get it fixed soon.


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I hope you get it fixed soon.


But it isn't going to be soon! If it gets worse,which it will,i'm going to turn up at A&E and say i can't walk and see what they say.


----------



## vickster (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Why am i having to wait nearly 5 months to see someone about my hip/leg?! it's quite serious and will only get worse in those next 4/5 months. Are the 'elderly' being put to the back of the queue?


Because there are a lot of people who should have been seen over the last 4 or 5 months who are now ahead of you in the queue and your case hasn’t been judged as urgent (what has been diagnosed? Arthritis?)

Simply, the backlog has to be cleared before new referrals are seen.

You could go private if concerned (depending on your finances and principles)


----------



## Slick (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> But it isn't going to be soon! If it gets worse,which it will,i'm going to turn up at A&E and say i can't walk and see what they say.


Take a couple of pain killers like everyone else and see your gp in the morning.


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

vickster said:


> Because there are a lot of people who should have been seen over the last 4 or 5 months who are now ahead of you in the queue and your case hasn’t been judged as urgent (what has been diagnosed? Arthritis?)
> 
> Simply, the backlog has to be cleared before new referrals are seen.
> 
> You could go private if concerned (depending on your finances and principles)



No i ain't going private!! 300 quid for some berk to tell me what i already know. It isn't arthritis by the way. The GP said so after my X-ray results came back.


----------



## vickster (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> No i ain't going private!! 300 quid for some berk to tell me what i already know. It isn't arthritis by the way. The GP said so after my X-ray results came back.


Go to A&E. shouldn’t be as busy if you avoid weekend peak times.

what is it you already know?


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Take a couple of pain killers like everyone else and see your gp in the morning.


Painkillers only mask what could be a serious problem. GP in the morning...fat chance of that happening!


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2020)

vickster said:


> Go to A&E. shouldn’t be as busy if you avoid weekend peak times.
> 
> what is it you already know?


Yes,like i said earlier,that's where i'll be heading if it gets worse. I've emailed Age Concern about it. Maybe they can help.


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Spare me the pious virtue signalling sermon. I'm well aware thousands have died from the virus and thousands more will die from the virus in the weeks and months to come.
> That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society, just like car crashes, train crashes, domestic & industrial accidents


I’m sure the families of the bereaved following that train crash in Aberdeen this last week would be comforted by that comment. Do you think it’s acceptable to go to work and never return ?? It’s not the price to pay for a functioning economy far from it !!!


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## winjim (15 Aug 2020)

What do you suppose is an acceptable number of deaths?


View: https://youtu.be/rNP7OfnIqpA


----------



## C R (15 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> What do you suppose is an acceptable number of deaths?
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/rNP7OfnIqpA



I don't suppose they really care how many deaths, so long as it doesn't affect them.


----------



## winjim (15 Aug 2020)

C R said:


> I don't suppose they really care how many deaths, so long as it doesn't affect them.


Oh, it's a literal death cult.


View: https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1289908962855391234?s=19


----------



## C R (15 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Oh, it's a literal death cult.
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1289908962855391234?s=19



It is one thing to say it like that, it is very different when it actually happens to them, and particularly Vines' sort, very quick to go to the stiff upper lip routine, so long as it is someone else doing the dying.


----------



## Smokin Joe (15 Aug 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> I’m sure the families of the bereaved following that train crash in Aberdeen this last week would be comforted by that comment. Do you think it’s acceptable to go to work and never return ?? It’s not the price to pay for a functioning economy far from it !!!


If you have work and if you have travel people will have accidents while engaged in either of them. An unlucky few will die, that is something we have to accept. A world that is safe from cradle to grave for everybody will never happen.


----------



## DCLane (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Why am i having to wait nearly 5 months to see someone about my hip/leg?! it's quite serious and will only get worse in those next 4/5 months. Are the 'elderly' being put to the back of the queue?



That'll be due to the waiting list in your NHS area / hospital. Should you choose to travel, and can ask to do so, then the wait somewhere else will be much shorter.

My GP referred me to the local NHS trust for a hearing check and the wait was 6-9 months. By asking could they check elsewhere, and the receptionist asking "are you OK to travel?" - to which my response was "I'll go anywhere" - I was seen at an NHS trust 15 miles away within a fortnight.


----------



## Julia9054 (15 Aug 2020)

vickster said:


> Because there are a lot of people who should have been seen over the last 4 or 5 months who are now ahead of you in the queue and your case hasn’t been judged as urgent (what has been diagnosed? Arthritis?)
> 
> Simply, the backlog has to be cleared before new referrals are seen.
> 
> You could go private if concerned (depending on your finances and principles)


This is what I was told when I went to my GP in July for a spot on my face that wouldn’t heal up. GP decided it wasn’t suspicious and told me that a non urgent referral to dermatology would be 6 months due to the backlog.
I am fortunate to have the resources to go private. It turned out to be skin cancer (squamous cell carcinoma). Gawd knows what sort of state I’d have been in in 6 months.


----------



## Mugshot (15 Aug 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Why am i having to wait nearly 5 months to see someone about my hip/leg?! it's quite serious and will only get worse in those next 4/5 months. Are the 'elderly' being put to the back of the queue?


Cummings is quoted as saying along the lines of "If some old people die, so what?" Perhaps your name is on the list, comfort yourself with that thought.


----------



## silva (15 Aug 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> If you have work and if you have travel people will have accidents while engaged in either of them. An unlucky few will die, that is something we have to accept. A world that is safe from cradle to grave for everybody will never happen.


Very true, at an uglier end of range of choices, it's one between worse and worser.
If you want to prevent a premature death of 1% of a population but your method to do so starvates 2% to a same premature death, then you "cure" is worser than the desease it claims to cure. And this was just a single % difference.

Those "measures" taken by governments, just spread a same death toll over a longer period, but by then economy has collapsed and we'll all have died of starvation and other suffering, that look smallish on a short term of months, but essential on the longer term.
Or, a vaccine is found, 6 months, a year, 3 year, or not. Alike HIV still no vaccine, while the U.S. government announced in 1984 that they hoped to have a vaccine ready within two years. It's now 2020. But at this rate and magnitude of government terror, the economy will have collapsed anyway.

The "lock down" method they used/use, is starvating 90% of the population. Not now. If forced that long, within 6 months or a year or so. When all supply chains have collapsed.
If you don't have petrol, you can import it. 
If you don't have petrol and don't have spare parts, you can import both. At least, if you still have a truck that rides.
If you miss 100 things, spare parts, trucks, electronical components, machines, then you stop everything. The "economical web" is then ripped up.
To illustrate with a real world, our forums world example:
https://www.velosolo.co.uk/blog.html


> Due to huge demand and the lockdown affecting manufacturing we have a lack of stock in many items particularly Disc Cogs and Boost spacer kits. We have today received a batch of non-anodized Boost kits and hope to have some black kits to follow ASAP. Also back in stock today are non-anodized axle spacer kits.





> International deliveries are affected. Due to the extreme measures in place globally and changing all the time delays to international deliveries are being experienced. With closed borders, cancelled and banned flights and postal services and distribution networks under severe pressure. Please be prepared for potentially VERY significant delays to international deliveries. The delivery times quoted on our website WILL NOT apply in this current situation.


I wanted to order chainrings, but:


> Thanks, the rings are on order but to be honest with Covid-19 we really have no idea when we will get them!


They had 2 left, but shipping cost makes their price +25% so I passed up.
But my hampster attitude of recent years saved my !ss. I have stock of dozens tyres, cogs, rings, only the latter less than normally, due to a bcd change and I wanted to test things first before ordering quantities.


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> It's like society never happened.









One generation later and we're seeing the results.


----------



## Smokin Joe (16 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> View attachment 541954
> 
> 
> One generation later and we're seeing the results.


Quoted out of context, if you read her full speech.


----------



## stowie (16 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society, just like car crashes, train crashes, domestic & industrial accidents, idiots getting pissed up and falling in rivers, OD'ing on drugs or any number of other causes of fatalities.



Car and train crashes, domestic and industrial accidents, falling in rivers when drunk, and OD'ing on drugs are not highly contagious with a natural exponential rate of growth.


----------



## srw (16 Aug 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Quoted out of context, if you read her full speech.


In context, it's worse.

"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." – *in an interview in Women's Own in 1987*


----------



## Andy in Germany (17 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm well aware thousands have died from the virus and thousands more will die from the virus in the weeks and months to come.
> That's the price you pay for having a functioning economy and functioning society,



Assuming this were the case, then the per capita death rate and economic damage would be about the same in similar countries, but it very clearly isn't; some countries have managed to reduce the infection and death rates more quickly than others _and _limit the damage to their economies.


----------



## winjim (18 Aug 2020)

It looks like the ChAdOx1 vaccine may require a booster to be fully effective.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news...itial-covid-19-vaccine-trials/4012246.article

I know some people in the study have been offered one but I haven't yet. Have to wait and see if they get in touch, but I guess they may be randomising who gets it.


----------



## C R (18 Aug 2020)

I registered interest on the trial website yesterday. Let's see if they show interest in me as a guinea pig.

More info in here:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/research/coronavirus-vaccine-research/


----------



## matticus (18 Aug 2020)

stowie said:


> Car and train crashes, domestic and industrial accidents, falling in rivers when drunk, and OD'ing on drugs are not highly contagious with a natural exponential rate of growth.


Tell that to the parents of children killed by cars, or the victims of industrial accidents (which often kill non-employees - Beirut being the extreme example).


----------



## C R (18 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> Tell that to the parents of children killed by cars, or the victims of industrial accidents (which often kill non-employees - Beirut being the extreme example).


I think you missed @stowie's point. He wasn't disputing the personal costs of any of those, what he was saying is that a train derailment doesn't cause a wave of other train derailments, but someone catching covid and going around unchecked would cause a wave of cases that grows exponentially unless control measures are put in place.


----------



## matticus (18 Aug 2020)

Don't worry - I got the point. But shouting "_exponential growth!_" doesn't trump every other consideration.

We DO have control measures. We weren't all going to die even without them (c.f. Spanish Flu). It's bonkers to suggest everyone stay in 100% isolation until we have a vaccine.

(why do I think we might have been round this loop before ... )


----------



## marinyork (18 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> It looks like the ChAdOx1 vaccine may require a booster to be fully effective.
> 
> https://www.chemistryworld.com/news...itial-covid-19-vaccine-trials/4012246.article
> 
> I know some people in the study have been offered one but I haven't yet. Have to wait and see if they get in touch, but I guess they may be randomising who gets it.



Not that surprising. Or maybe not bad news.

It may be particular groups or much older partcipants that they want to find info on. There really is less info on this amazing vaccine tech and how it behaves than some of the other types. A lot of discussion by vaccine coordination and academics has been adjuvant vaccines may work best for 70+ compared to ad5 or mRNA. It's just whether that is found to be the case or not.

A booster may just be to test if it is necessary or actually needed, I don't know, maybe there are pointers in the early phase results.


----------



## fossyant (18 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> Not that surprising. Or maybe not bad news.
> 
> It may be particular groups or much older partcipants that they want to find info on. There really is less info on this amazing vaccine tech and how it behaves than some of the other types. A lot of discussion by vaccine coordination and academics has been adjuvant vaccines may work best for 70+ compared to ad5 or mRNA. It's just whether that is found to be the case or not.
> 
> A booster may just be to test if it is necessary or actually needed, I don't know, maybe there are pointers in the early phase results.



I've read a few articles that suggest a booster, or in fact, that the antibodies are much higher after the booster, which would seem fairly normal - I'd assume we may have to have these going forward.


----------



## marinyork (18 Aug 2020)

fossyant said:


> I've read a few articles that suggest a booster, or in fact, that the antibodies are much higher after the booster, which would seem fairly normal - I'd assume we may have to have these going forward.



Indeed and one of the many logisticstical problems of what happens when it 'arrives'. It will still take a lot of time.

The antibodies do seem to decline (several studies now) and general expectation of Coronaviruses that it will be 3 months to a year naturally so annual jabs may needed.

The Oxford vaccine reported good T cell reaction though, so that side of things is more positive and some may even argue more important.

I just wish they'd stop saying on the tv ready this year or variants thereof.


----------



## stowie (18 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> Don't worry - I got the point. But shouting "_exponential growth!_" doesn't trump every other consideration.



It should be obvious enough why comparing COVID to car accidents is completely meaningless.



matticus said:


> We DO have control measures. We weren't all going to die even without them (c.f. Spanish Flu)



Control measures were put in place for Spanish Flu. They weren't hugely effective or well tracked due to WWI and the understanding of the virus at the time.

Spanish Flu killed 50M people world-wide.



matticus said:


> It's bonkers to suggest everyone stay in 100% isolation until we have a vaccine.



Who is suggesting that?


----------



## matticus (18 Aug 2020)

stowie said:


> It should be obvious enough why comparing COVID to car accidents is completely meaningless.


They're both things that are hard to avoid _completely _if people live normal lives.
[*actually i disagree with deaths-from-cars being "normal", but it's the view of the man on the Clapham Omnibus ...]

It was suggested that a functioning economy would be a good thing - go back to your response and have a read: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/post-6104488
Do you think the economy is a bad thing?


----------



## winjim (18 Aug 2020)

marinyork said:


> I just wish they'd stop saying on the tv ready this year or variants thereof.


It's plausible if not likely. Arrangements are being made so that it can be administered towards the end of the year if it's ready.


----------



## MarkF (19 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> They're both things that are hard to avoid _completely _if people live normal lives.
> [*actually i disagree with deaths-from-cars being "normal", but it's the view of the man on the Clapham Omnibus ...]
> 
> It was suggested that a functioning economy would be a good thing - go back to your response and have a read: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/post-6104488
> Do you think the economy is a bad thing?



With 1 per million dying each day worldwide from it, and that person likely to be old & ill and with the countries with the strictest lockdown fairing worst, it would be very good to turn attention to the economy asap.

Paying for a pandemic of stupidy


----------



## stowie (19 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> They're both things that are hard to avoid _completely _if people live normal lives.
> [*actually i disagree with deaths-from-cars being "normal", but it's the view of the man on the Clapham Omnibus ...]
> 
> It was suggested that a functioning economy would be a good thing - go back to your response and have a read: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/post-6104488
> Do you think the economy is a bad thing?



The post to which you link has no reference to the economy. Comparing COVID to car crashes is a category mistake and any comparison is utterly pointless.

The nature of the measures that should be taken and balancing the economy against population health is a different conversation. Although I would say that those who think we could let the virus run its course and assume the economy would tick along largely unaffected in this scenario are hugely mistaken.


----------



## matticus (19 Aug 2020)

stowie said:


> The post to which you link has no reference to the economy. Comparing COVID to car crashes is a category mistake and any comparison is utterly pointless.


Allow me to refresh your memory








(I generally find that phrases like "category mistake" come from people who can see they're losing the argument. rather like:
"You can't compare the two!" and
"That's nothing like this!" )



stowie said:


> The nature of the measures that should be taken and balancing the economy against population health is a different conversation. Although I would say that those who think we could let the virus run its course and assume the economy would tick along largely unaffected in this scenario are hugely mistaken.


Well now that you've consented to discuss the economy; clearly the UK has not allowed the virus to run it's course, and the current recession is very different from the economy ticking along largely unaffected.
So let's be grown-ups and accept this is all a compromise. Shouting "_exponential growth!_" won't win arguments - partly because we haven't had exponential growth for 4 months


----------



## All uphill (19 Aug 2020)

I thought this thread was about how we, as individuals, are doing?

Wouldn't these discussions be better on the coronavirus thread?


----------



## Andy in Germany (19 Aug 2020)

Beautiful Wife sent an interview on Japanese television with her sister, a nurse in a Corona ward in Japan, talking about the extra seminars and training she is doing.

This sister oiginally wanted to be a stewardess, then changed direction a few weeks before the exams for nursing college, passed in the top 5% and never looked back. Now she's at the forefront of the battle with Corona in Tokyo.


----------



## Andy in Germany (19 Aug 2020)

MarkF said:


> with the countries with the strictest lockdown fairing worst,



Really? In every case, every time so there's a clear and unambiguous correlation?
With evidence that the two are linked?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (19 Aug 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Really? In every case, every time so there's a clear and unambiguous correlation?
> With evidence that the two are linked?



They are, of course, linked. 

Countries that have really bad outbreaks *require* a really tough lockdown to get on top of it. 

@MarkF is making an argument analogous to hypothesising that chemotherapy causes cancer.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (19 Aug 2020)

Just back from 3 days in the NE of England. Stayed in an almost deserted city centre hotel with the rooms about 30% cheaper than normal. Went out to eat on Monday and discovered you have to book for most restaurants and they were pretty much full. My favourite Cuban place said they had a table free - on Thursday  I wandered around for a bit, getting turned away time and again but I also noticed a lot of restaurants were closed. Just an observation but the larger chains did better at managing space inside and having staff disinfecting tables than the smaller restaurants. Ended up at a Five Guys 
Tuesday I tried to book a table at Akbars - a great curry house, but was told it was first come, first served. When we turned up there was a huge queue inside with everyone standing cheek by jowl with no masks and every table was filled. Didn't look like they'd attempted to space the tables out more either. Eventually found a small Italian place up a side street that had free tables.

Both nights the city was filled with young folk out enjoying themselves - pretty much as usual. Saw very few masks and virtually zero social distancing.

My colleague is addicted to McDonalds coffee (yeah, weird) but we found every single McDonalds was absolutely rammed, with queues around the building - even at 8.15am this morning!

The government incentive to eat out may be driving the busy restaurants or maybe folk are just glad to get out. I'd need to see what it's like on a Thursday. 

Oh and a quick shout out to Siesta Coffee in Newton Aycliffe who refused my money - "Jock money isn't real money and we've been caught out before" - fark you ( I didn't say it to her face as it's a coffee shop linked to a gym. The waitress looked like a body builder and I think she could have snapped me in half. I just shrugged and walked out, bravely)


----------



## stowie (19 Aug 2020)

matticus said:


> (I generally find that phrases like "category mistake" come from people who can see they're losing the argument. rather like:
> "You can't compare the two!" and
> "That's nothing like this!" )



I generally use the phrase to indicate a comparison between events which are so different as to render the comparison meaningless. I am not sure how else to put it that would be to your liking. What in the comparison between - for example- car crashes and COVID makes this a valid and useful comparison?



matticus said:


> Well now that you've consented to discuss the economy; clearly the UK has not allowed the virus to run it's course, and the current recession is very different from the economy ticking along largely unaffected.
> So let's be grown-ups and accept this is all a compromise. Shouting "_exponential growth!_" won't win arguments - partly because we haven't had exponential growth for 4 months



I am not really sure what you are disputing here. That the natural growth rate of the virus is exponential? Or that this is a key factor in the measures needed to manage the issue?


----------



## Slick (19 Aug 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just back from 3 days in the NE of England. Stayed in an almost deserted city centre hotel with the rooms about 30% cheaper than normal. Went out to eat on Monday and discovered you have to book for most restaurants and they were pretty much full. My favourite Cuban place said they had a table free - on Thursday  I wandered around for a bit, getting turned away time and again but I also noticed a lot of restaurants were closed. Just an observation but the larger chains did better at managing space inside and having staff disinfecting tables than the smaller restaurants. Ended up at a Five Guys
> Tuesday I tried to book a table at Akbars - a great curry house, but was told it was first come, first served. When we turned up there was a huge queue inside with everyone standing cheek by jowl with no masks and every table was filled. Didn't look like they'd attempted to space the tables out more either. Eventually found a small Italian place up a side street that had free tables.
> 
> Both nights the city was filled with young folk out enjoying themselves - pretty much as usual. Saw very few masks and virtually zero social distancing.
> ...


Did you not give her the tried and trusted retort that it's "legal tendur mate"?


----------



## classic33 (19 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Did you not give her the tried and trusted retort that it's "legal tendur mate"?


Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England or Scotland.


----------



## Slick (19 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England or Scotland.


I know but it's the usual reply from your average punter and I've heard it a few times.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (19 Aug 2020)

Slick said:


> Did you not give her the tried and trusted retort that it's "legal tendur mate"?


I only ever have bother in the NE of England. Some years ago I ordered a bacon roll and a coffee in a Sunderland cafe. It was £4 something so I handed over a Scottish tenner. The cafe owner looked like I'd crapped on his shoes and asked if I had any proper money. I apologised and said no but found £2-odd in change in my pocket. "That'll have to do" he said, taking the coins and stomping off. Fine by me, I got a cheap bacon roll & coffee.


----------



## Moon bunny (19 Aug 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just back from 3 days in the NE of England. Stayed in an almost deserted city centre hotel with the rooms about 30% cheaper than normal. Went out to eat on Monday and discovered you have to book for most restaurants and they were pretty much full. My favourite Cuban place said they had a table free - on Thursday  I wandered around for a bit, getting turned away time and again but I also noticed a lot of restaurants were closed. Just an observation but the larger chains did better at managing space inside and having staff disinfecting tables than the smaller restaurants. Ended up at a Five Guys
> Tuesday I tried to book a table at Akbars - a great curry house, but was told it was first come, first served. When we turned up there was a huge queue inside with everyone standing cheek by jowl with no masks and every table was filled. Didn't look like they'd attempted to space the tables out more either. Eventually found a small Italian place up a side street that had free tables.
> 
> Both nights the city was filled with young folk out enjoying themselves - pretty much as usual. Saw very few masks and virtually zero social distancing.
> ...


Try spending Ulster Bank or worse, Bank of Ireland, in England.
Anyway, I looked into a local bookshop, it was pretty well full, no distancing, people browsing and replacing the books so no quarantine, I recognised at least one customer as a teacher and a few other professionals so they should have known better.


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## Slick (19 Aug 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I only ever have bother in the NE of England. Some years ago I ordered a bacon roll and a coffee in a Sunderland cafe. It was £4 something so I handed over a Scottish tenner. The cafe owner looked like I'd crapped on his shoes and asked if I had any proper money. I apologised and said no but found £2-odd in change in my pocket. "That'll have to do" he said, taking the coins and stomping off. Fine by me, I got a cheap bacon roll & coffee.


I travel to various sites in England and came to the conclusion that I would have to wait and lift money when I arrived as I just got bored trying to spend Scottish notes in some places. Glad you got a cheap coffee and roll out it though, almost makes it worthwhile. 

Probably just a Scottish thing.


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## marinyork (20 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> It's plausible if not likely. Arrangements are being made so that it can be administered towards the end of the year if it's ready.



It's not plausible. By vaccine most mean people being actually given it in their veins to millions of people by that date. That isn't plausible. We only have four months left to do that. In the spring by contast is plausible as vaccine coordinators and commentary have said.

A licenced vaccine is plausible, but that's a completely different thing. That is important as it ofters reassurance and hope, plus some protection for tens of thousands going into the winter wave.


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## matticus (20 Aug 2020)

stowie said:


> I generally use the phrase to indicate a comparison between events which are so different as to render the comparison meaningless. I am not sure how else to put it that would be to your liking. What in the comparison between - for example- car crashes and COVID makes this a valid and useful comparison?


It wasn't *my* example, but it is self-evidently an example of a risk to human life that could be mitigated by shutting down "normal" societal activities. (But I think that was pretty clear in the post that started this ...)


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## Stephenite (20 Aug 2020)

Just had another test. Not related to the one I had 5 or so weeks ago. I've managed to pick up a cold again (very likely). Thought it must be an unusually bad attack of hay-fever at first but developed into sweats, dizzy spells and sore throat.

Phoned the doc's Wednesday morning. Telephone consultation in the afternoon. Test Thursday morning. Effective! Last time the results became available within 24 hours too.

Unfortunately, it means I'm in isolation until symptom free and not in work until a day after that.


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## Stephenite (20 Aug 2020)

Anyone in the UK wanting to travel to Europe from Saturday morning had better check the entry regs of the country you hope to visit.

If you are pining for the fjords you have a ten day quarantine to go through. Other countries may follow Norway's lead.


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England or Scotland.



And English banknotes aren’t legal tender in Scotland.


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## Stephenite (21 Aug 2020)

Stephenite said:


> Just had another test. Not related to the one I had 5 or so weeks ago. I've managed to pick up a cold again (very likely). Thought it must be an unusually bad attack of hay-fever at first but developed into sweats, dizzy spells and sore throat.
> 
> Phoned the doc's Wednesday morning. Telephone consultation in the afternoon. Test Thursday morning. Effective! Last time the results became available within 24 hours too.
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I'm in isolation until symptom free and not in work until a day after that.


Negative result. Three days off work meant I did a bit more tidying up than normal.


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## MarkF (21 Aug 2020)

I am off work, after an eye infection that I worked through with antibiotics, I then made sure my nose wire was nipped tight, I loosened it as the heat under my mask became intolerable. I then got a serious mouth infection, coincidence? After no days off work for decades? I don't think so. Dentist can't find anything wrong with my teeth/gums.

My terms were unilaterally changed, with no risk assessments and on Gov "guidance" not WHO advice. I am not the same as somebody doing a sedentary job. I confidently predict that there will a huge mask claims industry in the future.


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## winjim (24 Aug 2020)

Definite slowdown in testing turnaround time. A few weeks ago I was getting my results back in 24-48hrs but sent my latest swab in on Thursday and haven't heard back yet. Last week's was also delayed. Won't be the same everywhere of course, mine are sent to Scotland but I have friends here in Sheffield who have got results within 24hrs. Still, I wonder what's going on.


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## Flick of the Elbow (26 Aug 2020)

winjim said:


> Definite slowdown in testing turnaround time. A few weeks ago I was getting my results back in 24-48hrs but sent my latest swab in on Thursday and haven't heard back yet. Last week's was also delayed. Won't be the same everywhere of course, mine are sent to Scotland but I have friends here in Sheffield who have got results within 24hrs. Still, I wonder what's going on.


Scottish testing was swamped at the weekend by school kids with sniffles. There were reports of folk in Glasgow and Lanarkshire being told to drive to England for their tests because there were no slots available locally. Hopefully just a return to school peak.


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## oldwheels (26 Aug 2020)

classic33 said:


> Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England or Scotland.


Not sure that is true and I don't think English fivers are legal tender in Scotland either.


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## oldwheels (26 Aug 2020)

Classic 33 Just been consulting my friend Mr Google who says you are actually correct. Also debit cards cheques and contactless are not legal tender anywhere. 
Not been abroad in England or Wales for a few years now and never had my Scottish notes refused despite my best efforts.


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## oldwheels (26 Aug 2020)

Just to add to the confusion. English bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland.


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## fossyant (26 Aug 2020)

MrsF's mum is struggling mentally, having been locked down in her Nursing home. We got to see her for about 2 weeks in July (from the car park) and that got stopped due to a couple of areas in Gtr Manchester. Our area is now lowest, even under Wigan, but still can't go.

MIL worrying about nursing home costs, keeps saying she wants to be at home (can't as she can't get up), crying on the phone, requesting odd ites from her house (can't keep taking stuff as who knows if we've been in contact with someone) and we can't even give her a hug. It's putting mental pressure on her daughters - all have told her there is no way she could go back home due to her health - she knows this, but her mind is fine, just her body. She's very upset she can't see her family at all. She get's a few words with one daughter who got a job doing laundry at the home after her swimming instructor job dried up with lockdown. It's not paying now as you can only have 3 students at a time.

Anyone else got elderly relatives struggling ? It's like prison for her and I can't see her physically being able to hug her daughters for a long time.


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## DCLane (28 Aug 2020)

I've just been out to lunch with my son; he was hungry and we ended up in a cafe restaurant which was clearly for 'ladies who lunch'.

We're in a local lockdown area, one which has had inspections in shops to check due to issues, and having checked the regulatory guidelines they state: "If you are going out (to a restaurant, pub or other indoor space) you must not go with anyone from outside your household. You cannot meet or interact indoors with people outside your household while you are out." 

In the cafe there were groups of ladies of 2-4 who clearly were from different households. Lovely food, daft customers.


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## Rezillo (30 Aug 2020)

Met someone yesterday who had Covid-19 in March and was deemed to be a mild case to recover at home, even though she found it worse than any flu she had ever had and she had found her inability to get anywhere near her full breath for several days quite frightening. 

Over four months on and she still has lung impairment and gets short of breath, which she has been told might be permanent. She only got over extreme tiredness and lethargy a couple of weeks ago. This week she found that her antibody levels were such that she might alread have lost any immunity she acquired.


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## VelvetUnderpants (30 Aug 2020)

I had Covid 19 in mid May and did not "fully recover" until about two to three weeks afterwards. Three months on I am running and cycling but I am still having good and bad days with my lungs, although my capacity to take in the required amount of oxygen appears ok my lungs do not feel like they are back to normal, they feel literaly sore inside and on bad days I am coughing again. This may sound daft but I am going to stop drinking coffee and alcohol for a while as I suffer with acid reflux and I have noticed when I drink a lot of coffee or alcohol my coughing gets worse, I am wondering if the coffee/alcohol is contributing to extra acid reflux which is irritating my lungs, which have not completely healed. Its all a bit of a mystery.

I asked my doctor the other week for an antibody test, but he said no because I had the swab test , I replied I know I was tested positive but I wanted to see if I have immunity but he still would not agree to it.

Anyone who says that Covid 19 is just like a bad cold or the flu is utterly deluded, even if you are one of the majority lucky enough to make a recovery it can still cast a long shadow.

PS I have no underlying health issues and nor do I have a BMI over 28.

Please, for the sake of your own health and those of your loved ones and the wider community do not become complacent. You may regret it.


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## C R (3 Sep 2020)

Both daughters and wife have had cold symptoms for a couple of days, but this morning wife had a temperature, so called covid line and told to go to test centre. This means stay at home until results are back, so not going to school. Middle daughter very disappointed, as today was to be her first day at high school. I expect they all just have colds, but such unlucky timing.


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## fossyant (3 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> Both daughters and wife have had cold symptoms for a couple of days, but this morning wife had a temperature, so called covid line and told to go to test centre. This means stay at home until results are back, so not going to school. Middle daughter very disappointed, as today was to be her first day at high school. I expect they all just have colds, but such unlucky timing.



I think this is going to be pretty common - best to be safe though. Bad cold, flu or Covid ?

We're out of the local lockdown, lowest rates of all Gtr Manchester and below national average, but every other area near us is well up - this was the same at the start of the extra precautions. To be honest the only change this had to us is that my wife didn't visit her best friend for 6 weeks. For me though, that means I need to now get cracking with MrsF's friend's decking in her back garden - no rest for the wicked.


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## winjim (8 Sep 2020)

Testing is running like a well oiled machine. Last Thurday's swab result came back Tuesday(!). Now I have a sore throat so work jave sent me home. It doesn't meet the criteria for the vaccine trial to test me but I'll get a test through work. They're overrun and the earliest they can book us in is tomorrow morning so I guess by the time tge results are in that's goodbye to my working week. Then I do my regular trial swab on Thursday again.

A five day turnaround is nowhere near good enough if they want to keep people in work. I almost certainly don't have covid, it's just a cold but I still need to go through this palaver. FFS.


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## numbnuts (8 Sep 2020)

I've just sent off my home testing kit - fingers crossed


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## C R (8 Sep 2020)

Wife tested on Thursday, results came Saturday early morning, negative as expected, but still a huge relief.


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## AndyRM (8 Sep 2020)

I tested negative a few weeks ago, having taken a home testing kit. I have to say I'm impressed with the speed the test was sent out and the results returned, especially as it was over a weekend. 

I have heard that demand for tests is increasing, and I suspect that will continue as we get into cold/flu season.


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## fossyant (8 Sep 2020)

numbnuts said:


> I've just sent off my home testing kit - fingers crossed



showing symptoms ? - hope you are OK !


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## winjim (8 Sep 2020)

AndyRM said:


> I tested negative a few weeks ago, having taken a home testing kit. I have to say I'm impressed with the speed the test was sent out and the results returned, especially as it was over a weekend.
> 
> I have heard that demand for tests is increasing, and I suspect that will continue as we get into cold/flu season.


We have had them back within 24hrs before, it just seems there's now a backlog. Winter cold and flu seadon with kids back at school passing things around is only going to make things worse.

It's not like they've had 6 months to sort it out or anything. As it is, our little cold is likely to cost the NHS four days of my time and three days of my wife's when really it could be two days of mine and one of hers.

Plus I'm pissed off cos I've got a really cool project I want to get cracking on but I'm stuck at home with my family instead.


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## fossyant (8 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> We have had them back within 24hrs before, it just seems there's now a backlog. Winter cold and flu seadon with kids back at school passing things around is only going to make things worse.
> 
> It's not like they've had 6 months to sort it out or anything. As it is, our little cold is likely to cost the NHS four days of my time and three days of my wife's when really it could be two days of mine and one of hers.
> 
> Plus I'm pissed off cos I've got a really cool project I want to get cracking on but I'm stuck at home with my family instead.



No remote working ?

I suspect it's a major reason my Uni has said nobody to go back unless absolutely essential, or you are doing face to face - can you imagine the chaos if half a Department has to isolate for a few days - stay at home where you can. At least if you feel 'iffy' you can carry on working until your results come through. Business continues. Asymptomatic or those with minor effects can carry on. Fortunately, if people are poorly, they don't need to work. It's too risky to business continuity to send everyone back to the office.


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## vickster (8 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> No remote working ?


He works in a hospital lab I think...so presumably not as not really something you can take home easily


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## Andy in Germany (8 Sep 2020)

Minor scare on Friday when we sent someone home with symptoms. He lives in protected housing with several other clients so they would all be in quarantine (again) if it was positive.

Negative result.


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## All uphill (8 Sep 2020)

27yr old son who had mild covid (normal temperature, no coughing) confirmed in late July is now at home with us trying to recover his energy and clarity of thought.

Make no mistake covid is not just bad flu for most, or death for the vulnerable. It can seriously mess up young healthy people.


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## numbnuts (8 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> showing symptoms ? - hope you are OK !


It started with a very high temperature on Saturday and feeling very weak, the nearest test centre was 80 round trip there was no way I could have done that so asked if I could have a home kit.
On Monday evening surprise surprise my temperature went back to normal, but sent the testing kit off. Today I feel fine....until now temperature gone up to 100F and feeling lousy, I don't thing it is Covid.........hopefully.


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## winjim (8 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> He works in a hospital lab I think...so presumably not as not really something you can take home easily


WFH kind of quietly disappeared from our place as they realised that the only people who could realistically do it were management level, which isn't a good look. There are also IT issues, I think the dept has only one encrypted laptop. At the beginning of lockdown I did WFH a bit as my boss could email me bits and pieces but TBH with a 1yo and a 5yo in the house the chances of getting anything done are close to zero. And of course I don't have a mass spectrometer in my kitchen or anything so practical work is out.

Our threshold for isolation and testing seems to be lower than that for the general population which is understandable. Certainly my manager doesn't want to risk the lab by having me in work, even with very minor symptoms. You can imagine the consequences if an entire hospital chemistry lab goes down, especially considering some of the covid work we're doing ourselves.


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## srw (8 Sep 2020)

One of my colleagues lives a mile from Chessington Zoo, one of the largest and longest-established testing centres in the London area. His 5-year old was offered a test in Dundee.

Eventually they found an appointment for him in Luton - still a 3-hour round-trip with a sick child.


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## winjim (8 Sep 2020)

srw said:


> One of my colleagues lives a mile from Chessington Zoo, one of the largest and longest-established testing centres in the London area. His 5-year old was offered a test in Dundee.
> 
> Eventually they found an appointment for him in Luton - still a 3-hour round-trip with a sick child.


Blimey. I know I'm complaining but at least I don't have to travel any distance for my tests. That's ridiculous.


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## roubaixtuesday (8 Sep 2020)

Just received from school...

_Dear parent and carer,
We have been notified that a member of staff has tested positive for Covid-19...._

No close contacts with children, school remains open.


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## gbb (9 Sep 2020)

They say familiarity breeds contempt...
As the virus took hold here in the UK and most of the country went into lockdown, I worked throughout and mentioned several times in here how I thought my employers were sailing far too close to the wind. As time passed and we had a good few cases I began to realise it's not the company attitude...its the staff.
We have now increased staffing by about 100 a day for an increase in work, there now even more people in the factory, (around 500 a day I suspect) it's ever harder to socially distance if you want to....but the vast vast majority just dont seem to care.
Masks are used poorly by a significant percentage of people, they might as well just not bother, noses exposed, mouth exposed or no mask at all.
The one way system is defeated as soon as any management turns it's back.
The smoking area (hugely increased in are to try to give people room) looks like a forest of people who make little or no attempt to distance.
Three 50 odd seater buses arrive each morning, hardly anyone climbs off wearing a mask.
The canteen seating, arranged to seperate people is constantly defeated.

It beggars belief honestly. I have complained directly to management, I have used the whistle blowing service , I've complained to the agency who supplies the labour...it just makes no difference because a very significant proportion of people (IME) are stupid, belligerent or simply dont understand....or care.

All you can do is distance as much as possible, wear a mask, wash and sanitize as often as possible...and leave the fcukwits to it.


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## DCLane (9 Sep 2020)

gbb said:


> All you can do is distance as much as possible, wear a mask, wash and sanitize as often as possible...and leave the fcukwits to it.



Ditto with my world.

Son no. 2 started 6th form today; 400 pupils in his 'bubble'. Hand sanitiser outside every room but they're all using the same door handle, same fingerprint scanner, same rails and the classrooms aren't sanitised. He's extremely uncomfortable about 1800 pupils milling around the whole school from tomorrow.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Sep 2020)

A worker at my wife’s work tested positive. After that she went to the pub. She came into work. Despite all the training the shop floor did bugger all sanitising. She didn’t tell track and trace about both the people she gives a lift to work. One is a director. After he’d rung up track and trace he denied he got a test saying to isolate despite that being the guidance . He got an employee to do his hair during early stages of lockdown.

a photocopy engineer came into today. Didn’t wear a mask. DumpEd his tools on a desk. Used a pen belonging to an employee not there at the time. Didn’t ask or wonder why others were wearing masks. Did sanitise anything he’d touched. He goes from business to business .

Some people really don’t give a flying fark


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## PaulSB (10 Sep 2020)

gbb said:


> All you can do is distance as much as possible, wear a mask, wash and sanitize as often as possible...and leave the fcukwits to it.





YukonBoy said:


> Some people really don’t give a flying fark



Two great examples of why we are not going to beat this virus. It is or will become endemic. A very large section of the population are too ignorant to understand the impact of their (lack of) actions on society. No one should be very surprised by this.

By keeping oneself, family and friends safe through responsible behaviour one makes a huge contribution in the battle against Covid-19. It's not much to ask or difficult to achieve but sadly millions couldn't give a hoot.

The rest of us have to accept the new reality, protect those we know and love while watching Darwinism in action.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Two great examples of why we are not going to beat this virus. It is or will become endemic. A very large section of the population are too ignorant to understand the impact of their (lack of) actions on society. No one should be very surprised by this.
> 
> By keeping oneself, family and friends safe through responsible behaviour one makes a huge contribution in the battle against Covid-19. It's not much to ask or difficult to achieve but sadly millions couldn't give a hoot.
> 
> The rest of us have to accept the new reality, protect those we know and love while watching Darwinism in action.



All those examples demonstrate is that a large proportion of the population are simply not as hysterical and paranoid as the ones who keep freaking out and having a good rant about it every time they encounter someone else who is not wearing a mask or not crossing the road so they don't have to pass each other in close proximity.

We're not all obsessed by the virus, and plenty of us just intend to go about our daily business with as much normality as possible. I can't stop the paranoid section of society being paranoid, but by the same score the paranoid section can't force me to join them in their paranoia. That's what really gets their goat more than anything. 
I'll just be observing the normal polite behaviour of not coughing and sneezing or breathing all over other people and that's as far as it will go. I'm not going to wear a mask to keep the pro-maskers from freaking out, and I'm not going to walk in the gutter or cross the road just because someone else is approaching me in the street. If it bothers others that much, they can do the avoidance actions themselves


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

Youngster on morning TV saying it's not our fault - we've asked the for guidance, you've told us to go out. Yes, same rules for all of us, we're keeping socially distant if we go out. The statistics tell us it's the younger lot causing the rises cos you don't give a stuff. So yes, there is blame. FFS.


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

Daughter back to college - looks like they are 'all in', doesn't seem to be split teaching like the college she was supposed to be going to (decided to follow boyfriend).


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Two great examples of why we are not going to beat this virus. It is or will become endemic. A very large section of the population are too ignorant to understand the impact of their (lack of) actions on society. No one should be very surprised by this.
> 
> By keeping oneself, family and friends safe through responsible behaviour one makes a huge contribution in the battle against Covid-19. It's not much to ask or difficult to achieve but sadly millions couldn't give a hoot.
> 
> The rest of us have to accept the new reality, protect those we know and love while watching Darwinism in action.





SkipdiverJohn said:


> All those examples demonstrate is that a large proportion of the population are simply not as hysterical and paranoid as the ones who keep freaking out and having a good rant about it every time they encounter someone else who is not wearing a mask or not crossing the road so they don't have to pass each other in close proximity.
> 
> We're not all obsessed by the virus, and plenty of us just intend to go about our daily business with as much normality as possible. I can't stop the paranoid section of society being paranoid, but by the same score the paranoid section can't force me to join them in their paranoia. That's what really gets their goat more than anything.
> I'll just be observing the normal polite behaviour of not coughing and sneezing or breathing all over other people and that's as far as it will go. I'm not going to wear a mask to keep the pro-maskers from freaking out, and I'm not going to walk in the gutter or cross the road just because someone else is approaching me in the street. If it bothers others that much, they can do the avoidance actions themselves


QED


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## Oldhippy (10 Sep 2020)

Working with vulnerable adults so taking no chances at work or socially. So far so good. Bloody worrying though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> Youngster on morning TV saying it's not our fault - we've asked the for guidance, you've told us to go out. Yes, same rules for all of us, we're keeping socially distant if we go out. The statistics tell us it's the younger lot causing the rises cos you don't give a stuff. So yes, there is blame. FFS.



Those youngsters who are going out socialising and spending their money should be applauded not vilified. They are doing their bit to keep the economy afloat and prevent millions more people ending up on the dole. It's the lockdowners who are causing businesses to close, people to lose their jobs, and eroding the government tax revenue that they need to be able to run public services.
The young socialisers are not even causing any real problem either except in the minds of the lockdown zealots. Hardly any youngsters who get the virus are being hospitalised or even becoming that ill. The burden they place on the NHS is peanuts compared with the amount they are supporting the economy.


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## PaulSB (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> All those examples demonstrate is that a large proportion of the population are simply not as hysterical and paranoid as the ones who keep freaking out and having a good rant about it every time they encounter someone else who is not wearing a mask or not crossing the road so they don't have to pass each other in close proximity.
> 
> We're not all obsessed by the virus, and plenty of us just intend to go about our daily business with as much normality as possible. I can't stop the paranoid section of society being paranoid, but by the same score the paranoid section can't force me to join them in their paranoia. That's what really gets their goat more than anything.
> I'll just be observing the normal polite behaviour of not coughing and sneezing or breathing all over other people and that's as far as it will go. I'm not going to wear a mask to keep the pro-maskers from freaking out, and I'm not going to walk in the gutter or cross the road just because someone else is approaching me in the street. If it bothers others that much, they can do the avoidance actions themselves



Hmmmm........well I'm far from hysterical, obsessed or paranoid and I have gone about my normal business as far as possible since mid-February.

As for taking avoidance actions, yes I do as part of my "strategy" to protect family, friends and contribute to the attempt to control this virus. I simply take responsibility.

One of my avoidance actions is to stay well clear of those who seem to demonstrate a cavalier approach to the problem and are unwilling to make a contribution to a national effort.


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

PaulSB said:


> contribution to a national effort.


A very appropriate phrase, especially considering those who like to bring the War into certain discussions.


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Those youngsters who are going out socialising and spending their money should be applauded not vilified.



I'm going out spending my money, but I'm social distancing - it's not rocket science. Bring back the virus back home, and mum and dad then have to isolate and take time off work, and possibly pass it on to their parents. Because of not socially distancing, the infection rates are going up, so the government starts shutting businesses down - tell that to the businesses in Bolton - had folk followed rules, they would be still open - you can't run a pub or restaurant profitably as a take away. Poof, those businesses will be gone as furlough stops soon. 

Having just come out of 'restrictions' in my area, it's seriously 'hissing' me off. Just wait till your area goes on lockdown, you won't be going to the pub, they will all have gone bust.

You don't half talk some 'sheite' !


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> in the minds of the lockdown zealots.



You might be well advised to moderate your language lest you give the impression of hypocrisy whilst accusing others of rants...


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> You might be well advised to moderate your language lest you give the impression of hypocrisy whilst accusing others of rants...



I'm not the one who's been ranting on about the behaviour of others because they don't conform to what the commentator considers responsible conduct. If you want a prime example of hypocrisy, how about people having a rant about others for taking unsufficient steps to control the virus, then themselves taking a holiday trip abroad to a destination with more coronavirus in it than the UK?


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not the one who's been ranting on about the behaviour of others ...



You are, however, ranting about zealotry.

I don't know what you're on about with the rest


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

Because of folk not acting responsibly, we are getting tighter and tighter controls. This is, and will affect more jobs. My wife and son have lost their jobs, and due to the impacts can't find another. Not being responsible will increase these 'rules'.

For example, being 'forced' to wear a mask inside a business actually means I only go out shopping for food now - I'm not spending my money in other businesses. We're only wearing masks because of actions of others. So lets carry on doing how we please, infections go up, and we'll be almost back to where we were in April.


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## PaulSB (10 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> A very appropriate phrase, especially considering those who like to bring the War into certain discussions.


Yes, I suppose so it is but I had no particular thing in mind other than the need for us all to make the effort. 🙂


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## C R (10 Sep 2020)

I seem to get the impression that those most likely to invoke the blitz spirit also seem the least likely to actually put in the effort it takes to follow it.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> For example, being 'forced' to wear a mask inside a business actually means I only go out shopping for food now - I'm not spending my money in other businesses.



So what you're really saying is you don't like having to wear a mask, so won't wear one for anything other than essential food shopping. The government are causing the economic damage by mandating masks, not the general population. They didn't have to mandate masks, and doing so is unlikely to make any meaningful difference to virus infection rates anyway. It was only pandering to the noisy virtue-signalling elements in the media who demand that the government "do something" 
The only problem is the "something" makes going shopping an unpleasant experience so drives customers away from making discretionary purchases.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> I seem to get the impression that those most likely to invoke the blitz spirit also seem the least likely to actually put in the effort it takes to follow it.



Following a true blitz spirit would entail simply ignoring the virus and just getting on with everyday life as normal. But that's not what those promoting a "national effort" want at all. What they want is for everyone to buy into staying away from each other, not going to work, school or uni, and not socialising freely. There's nothing "blitz spirit" about being a miserable doom monger.


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> So what you're really saying is you don't like having to wear a mask, so won't wear one for anything other than essential food shopping. The government are causing the economic damage by mandating masks, not the general population. They didn't have to mandate masks, and doing so is unlikely to make any meaningful difference to virus infection rates anyway. It was only pandering to the noisy virtue-signalling elements in the media who demand that the government "do something"
> The only problem is the "something" makes going shopping an unpleasant experience so drives customers away from making discretionary purchases.



I do wear a mask, but because it's unpleasant, and I can't see through steaming up my glasses, I restrict what shopping I do. Blame the government, but if too many carry on doing as they please, we will only get more and more restrictions - it's up to us all to follow the guidance otherwise Boris and the boys will impose more civil restrictions - you must be able to understand why everyone is getting angry - rule of 6 now, kiss goodbye to family Christmas then.

Just because the virus is unlikely to affect some people, just think what it's doing to others. What about all the folk that are in care homes - due to infection rates, they aren't even allowed to see family - we were stopped from seeing MIL because of non-compliance in other areas, which then forced our area into tighter restrictions. My wife was in tears again yesterday. Went to see her mum, but before her was an old chap in a wheelchair, sat with his 'daughter' in the car park, with their relative inside the building. They had to 'phone her' so they could hear what she had to say, then pass the phone between each other. The visitors were sat outside in the rain and cold - one visit a week for 20 minutes. This is because folk can't follow rules.


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## vickster (10 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> I do wear a mask, but because it's unpleasant, and I can't see through steaming up my glasses, I restrict what shopping I do.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/newsbeat-53406105


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## matticus (10 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> I'm going out spending my money, but I'm social distancing - it's not rocket science. Bring back the virus back home, and mum and dad then have to isolate and take time off work, and possibly pass it on to their parents. Because of not socially distancing, the infection rates are going up, so the government starts shutting businesses down - tell that to the businesses in Bolton - had folk followed rules, they would be still open - you can't run a pub or restaurant profitably as a take away. Poof, those businesses will be gone as furlough stops soon.
> 
> Having just come out of 'restrictions' in my area, it's seriously 'hissing' me off. Just wait till your area goes on lockdown, you won't be going to the pub, they will all have gone bust.


That's a good description of the balance we need to strike. We DO need to take precautions, but we DO need to keep many aspects of "normal" life going.

(You say "_it's not rocket science_"; well .... I don't think anyone knows the correct balance between maintaining healthy social/economic activity and pandemic control. Rocket science on the other hand is very well tried, tested and understood! )


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## matticus (10 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> "I do wear a mask, but because it's unpleasant, and I can't see through steaming up my glasses, I restrict what shopping I do "
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/newsbeat-53406105


Thanks, but 6/10; techniques shown for cleaning glasses will result in lots of scratched glasses 

(and I've tried the "tuck" method - made almost no difference)


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## vickster (10 Sep 2020)

matticus said:


> Thanks, but 6/10; techniques shown for cleaning glasses will result in lots of scratched glasses


Mine are anyhow


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## All uphill (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Those youngsters who are going out socialising and spending their money should be applauded not vilified. They are doing their bit to keep the economy afloat and prevent millions more people ending up on the dole. It's the lockdowners who are causing businesses to close, people to lose their jobs, and eroding the government tax revenue that they need to be able to run public services.
> The young socialisers are not even causing any real problem either except in the minds of the lockdown zealots. Hardly any youngsters who get the virus are being hospitalised or even becoming that ill. The burden they place on the NHS is peanuts compared with the amount they are supporting the economy.


Time you started buying new bikes to support the economy, John. 😋


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Following a true blitz spirit would entail simply ignoring the virus and just getting on with everyday life as normal.



Blitz civilian deaths were estimated at 43,000.

COVID deaths are estimated around the 60,000.

COVID has already killed more, and would kill 5-10x more again without taking measures against it.

During the Blitz, massive efforts were taken to reduce loss of life, including mass evacuation.


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## DaveReading (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Hardly any youngsters who get the virus are being hospitalised or even becoming that ill.



Well that's all good, then, nothing to worry about.


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

TBH I think I've spent more locally during lockdown/quarantine/isolation/whatever than I usually do. Mainly takeaway food and groceries but it's been nice to have the time to shop locally.


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

matticus said:


> Rocket science on the other hand is very well tried, tested and understood!


Indeed, largely by German scientists during the war against the UK, ironically given our discussion of 'Blitz spirit'.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Well that's all good, then, nothing to worry about.



For the healthy population, it really isn't anything to worry about, and for the peak socialising 20/30-something age groups it won't generally be any worse than getting a cold. You wouldn't have an absurd destructive shutdown to try to limit the numbers getting a cold or regular seasonal Flu, so why is it justified for coronavirus?
There's plenty of high risk people out there who really don't want to be infected, but they know who they are so should minimise contact, and the rest of us with high risk friends and relatives can do our bit by staying away from them. 
Think of the population as two "bubbles", a low risk one and a high risk one. The two groups need to try not to mix with the other group too much, but there's no reason to avoid mixing within their own group. A high infection rate amongst the low risk population won't translate into high numbers of hospitalisations and deaths, and an ever increasing level of immunity will reduce the danger of the virus spreading to high risk people.as it's transmission route will become less and less efficient.


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## raleighnut (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> For the healthy population, it really isn't anything to worry about, and for the peak socialising 20/30-something age groups it won't generally be any worse than getting a cold. You wouldn't have an absurd destructive shutdown to try to limit the numbers getting a cold or regular seasonal Flu, so why is it justified for coronavirus?
> There's plenty of high risk people out there who really don't want to be infected, but they know who they are so should minimise contact, and the rest of us with high risk friends and relatives can do our bit by staying away from them.
> Think of the population as two "bubbles", a low risk one and a high risk one. The two groups need to try not to mix with the other group too much, but there's no reason to avoid mixing within their own group. A high infection rate amongst the low risk population won't translate into high numbers of hospitalisations and deaths, and an ever increasing level of immunity will reduce the danger of the virus spreading to high risk people.as it's transmission route will become less and less efficient.


So you're happy for older people to die then. Face masks do not protect the wearer from catching Covid 19, what they do is limit the chances of a fit carrier (who may not have any symptoms) from passing it on to the more vulnerable'


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## Rezillo (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Blitz civilian deaths were estimated at 43,000.
> 
> COVID deaths are estimated around the 60,000.
> 
> ...



Don't forget blackout blinds. Surely no-one could be so selfish as to endanger the lives of others through their own inaction by not taking such a simple precaution. Oh...wait a minute.......


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## Mugshot (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> During the Blitz, massive efforts were taken to reduce loss of life, including mass evacuation.


Yeah, but no one was asked to wear a mask were they, so... oh wait, hang on...


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

raleighnut said:


> So you're happy for older people to die then. Face masks do not protect the wearer from catching Covid 19, what they do is limit the chances of a fit carrier (who may not have any symptoms) from passing it on to the more vulnerable'


There's been a rather saddening narrative all the way through this that older people and those with underlying health conditions are somehow expendable, when really they are vulnerable and we should be doing all we can to protect them.


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## stephec (10 Sep 2020)

stephec said:


> I've just found out that a little old lady five doors away from me has died.
> 
> An ambulance was called for her last week but she was told it was normal flu and sent home.
> 
> Another one had to be called yesterday and she was kept in hospital but died this morning, first one so far that's been anywhere near to me.


Now I've heard that her son committed suicide a few days ago, he'd always lived with his mum and was apparently really struggling on his own.


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## Oldhippy (10 Sep 2020)

Genuinely don't understand the mask arguments, I lived in Asia for many years and they are everyday things on transport and if people have colds. Some of the healthiest populations anywhere and they have the courtesy to wear a mask to minimise coughs and splitters on their fellow human beings. No it won't stop people getting it necessarily but anything to slow the spread is a good thing surely? Have we really sunk to a level where as long as we personally are ok no one else matters?


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Yeah, but no one was asked to wear a mask were they, so... oh wait, hang on...



As protection against German poison gas attacks and you know it. Not as a stage prop for general use in public, which is all the wear masks on public transport and in the shops nonsense is all about. What's rather interesting is virus rates were declining before masks were mandated, and since they were mandated the numbers are rising again. I don't think the two things are entirely unconnected either. Some people think having a mask on means they don't need to do anything else like not crowding each other and having good hygiene. And what about all the germ-laden corona masks being discarded all over the place or taken off and put down on surfaces where they will transfer any virus from the wearer to the surface, then to be touched by someone else?.
Masks are at best a placebo, at worst they are actually helping to spread the virus not contain it.


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## classic33 (10 Sep 2020)

Can someone explain why I, and 1,000's like me, should be denied medical treatment. Pre-existing conditions.

The consequences of this will be around long after this current outbreak is finished. The cost should things go wrong isn't cheap. I passed the £10,000 mark in the first half of this year. Multiply this by the number in similar situations and you start to see it'll never be cheap.

If those who are, in their opinion, are fit and healthy are saying that their "right" to get drunk beats my right to simply stay alive, will they give their reasons.

"Economic activity"(getting drunk) doesn't come into it as far as I'm concerned. Maybe when treatment is refused for me, they'll not mind me blaming them and their attitude and actions for it.


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## classic33 (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> As protection against German poison gas attacks and you know it. Not as a stage prop for general use in public, which is all the wear masks on public transport and in the shops nonsense is all about. What's rather interesting is virus rates were declining before masks were mandated, and since they were mandated the numbers are rising again. I don't think the two things are entirely unconnected either. Some people think having a mask on means they don't need to do anything else like not crowding each other and having good hygiene. And what about all the germ-laden corona masks being discarded all over the place or taken off and put down on surfaces where they will transfer any virus from the wearer to the surface, then to be touched by someone else?.
> Masks are at best a placebo, at worst they are actually helping to spread the virus not contain it.


You totally miss the distinct difference between the two items.

One is to prevent a limited number of airborne particles getting into your lungs. The ones you moan about are to try and rectify simple hygiene measures not being adhered to. They are there to stop any contaminants from your lungs getting into the atmosphere.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> There's been a rather saddening narrative all the way through this that older people and those with underlying health conditions are somehow expendable, when really they are vulnerable and we should be doing all we can to protect them.



They aren't expendable but the best way for them to avoid their personal risk from the virus is them minimising their own contact with everybody else. And yes, I do think the authorities should help them do it by delivering food, medicines etc to them so they don't need to go out so much.
Trying to protect the sick by shutting down the country is going to cause carnage, and the fallout from that will be worse than the virus. That's why Sweden played it right. Despite having quite a lot of cases, they haven't pressed the self-destruct button and now they are over the worst of it. Some of the countries like Spain and France that had strict lockdowns are now suffering with *more* coronavirus now than they had before, *plus* all the economic damage. They've paid a high price to be in a worse position now than they were six months ago!


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> That's why Sweden played it right. Despite having quite a lot of cases, they haven't pressed the self-destruct button and now they are over the worst of it.



Sweden have suffered more deaths than other Nordics and similar or worse economic damage. It remains illegal to stand at a bar in Sweden and visiting relatives in care homes is forbidden. I work with Swedes all the time; the cliché of a country free from restrictions is entirely false.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Sweden have suffered more deaths than other Nordics and similar or worse economic damage. It remains illegal to stand at a bar in Sweden and visiting relatives in care homes is forbidden. I work with Swedes all the time; the cliché of a country free from restrictions is entirely false.



No-one said it was business as usual but Sweden maintained relative normality. When the virus is over for them, it really will be over. For the countries that persued a hard lockdown strategy the virus is just the beginning of their woes. The real impact will hit once the infection has largely gone then all the other knock-on effects will come to the fore. BTW, hanging around at the bar or visiting relatives isn't allowed here either. The Swedes have not had idiotic mask edicts or shut all their public facilities and non-food shops though.


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## numbnuts (10 Sep 2020)

Still haven't received my results as yet


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## Oldhippy (10 Sep 2020)

It's a horrid wait isn't it. Hope it's the right result for you.


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> When the virus is over for them, it really will be over.



There is absolutely no reason to suppose this, other than it suits your pre-judged outcome.

Seroprevalence in Sweden is comparable to other European countries; it is near equally prone to a second wave and a very long way from herd immunity, as far as current understanding allows us eg:



The main impact of the Swedish approach to date has simply been to kill more people than the nearest comparable countries.

The only reason we managed to be so much worse was by taking too much heed of the kind of views you espouse, and delaying restrictions (the Swedes, whilst less severe, were more timely).


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Sep 2020)

Those figures are hardly up to date, some of them are nearly six months old. A lot more people will have gained immunity during that period. An up to date set of figures for the USA would be interesting, US coronavirus cases are now dropping off substantially from the peak. I would suspect in hard hit areas there is now a substantial immune cohort that is hindering the virus's transmission.


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## Mugshot (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> What's rather interesting is virus rates were declining before masks were mandated, and since they were mandated the numbers are rising again.


I could have sworn there were some other measures introduced, before mandatory mask wearing, which may have reduced rates, about 3 months worth of them if memory serves.


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

Mugshot said:


> I could have sworn there were some other measures introduced, before mandatory mask wearing, which may have reduced rates, about 3 months worth of them if memory serves.



The skientific method:
1. Decide your conclusion.
2. Quote any facts which correlate to your conclusion, however weakly. Ignore any confounding information.
3. Repeat.
4. Carry on repeating.


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Testing is running like a well oiled machine. Last Thurday's swab result came back Tuesday(!). Now I have a sore throat so work jave sent me home. It doesn't meet the criteria for the vaccine trial to test me but I'll get a test through work. They're overrun and the earliest they can book us in is tomorrow morning so I guess by the time tge results are in that's goodbye to my working week. Then I do my regular trial swab on Thursday again.
> 
> A five day turnaround is nowhere near good enough if they want to keep people in work. I almost certainly don't have covid, it's just a cold but I still need to go through this palaver. FFS.


My fears were slightly ill-founded as I got my results this morning. Wife's back at work but I've got the kids so I'll be back in tomorrow. So delayed swabbing but <24hr turnaround for the actual test. Of course this morning I've done my weekly vaccine trial swab which is analysed in a different lab so we'll see how long that one takes.


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> The skientific method:
> 1. Decide your conclusion.
> 2. Quote any facts which correlate to your conclusion, however weakly. Ignore any confounding information.
> 3. Repeat.
> 4. Carry on repeating.


TBH I find it difficult to condemn that approach, nor some of the other opinions expressed in recent posts, given the attitude of our govt. We can't get upset at members of the general public getting confused and making it up as they go along when that's been what the people at the top, who are meant to be keeping us safe, have been doing.

It's all mixed messaging, poor leadership, poor comms, dodgy science and desperation, from the top down. No wonder we're in such a pickle.


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## numbnuts (10 Sep 2020)

numbnuts said:


> Still haven't received my results as yet





> Your coronavirus test result is negative. You did not have the virus when the test was done


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## roubaixtuesday (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> How do you explain the decline in the US then? Trump and his allies have been opposed to any forms of hard lockdowns and always wanted to keep the economy open. The fall in virus infections despite all the person to person interaction, and not forgetting all those BLM and Antifa idiots having their non-socially distanced riots every night, has got to be down to something.



So, no data. I'm not surprised.

In terms of the US "decline" - there have been substantial restrictions in various ways across the US. Just for instance, full eight in ten Americans say they now wear masks most or all the time in businesses https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

But the decline hasn't been particularly strong, and death rates are over 10x ours

All of this is very consistent with standard epidemiology, and entirely at odds to your ramblings.


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## classic33 (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> They aren't expendable but the best way for them to avoid their personal risk from the virus is them minimising their own contact with everybody else. And yes, I do think the authorities should help them do it by delivering food, medicines etc to them so they don't need to go out so much.
> Trying to protect the sick by shutting down the country is going to cause carnage, and the fallout from that will be worse than the virus.


Due to being born with a condition that this year got me placed in a "high risk group", hasn't stopped me from working nor being physically active. 250 miles commute to and from work(4 day weekend, split shifts). It's something that has in the past had people crossing the road to avoid catching it from me. Forget all about the two metre distancing.

You'd seldom see it, or the effects. So do not label me or people like me as " sick".

I have seen the effects of drink, self inflicted injuries in my book, in many A&E's. Even there they seem to feel that what everyone else there has to do, isn't for them.

I'm upright and mobile, there's many who aren't. Why should I deny them the help and support they may require, if I can do many things for myself?

I'll also ask, how are you expecting "medicines" to be delivered. The procedure at present is the patient orders first. They do not appear out of thin air to be then delivered.


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## raleighnut (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> How do you explain the decline in the US then? Trump and his allies have been opposed to any forms of hard lockdowns and always wanted to keep the economy open. The fall in virus infections despite all the person to person interaction, and not forgetting all those BLM and Antifa idiots having their non-socially distanced riots every night, has got to be down to something.


Son in law has been sent home from work and told to isolate after 4 American Servicemen tested positive for Covid after flying into the Airbase he works at (he's a Civilian base security supervisor after retiring from the Army following his '25yrs' in) still at least better than the American Servicemen who are all 'Confined To Barracks' for a fortnight.


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## All uphill (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> For the healthy population, it really isn't anything to worry about, and for the peak socialising 20/30-something age groups it won't generally be any worse than getting a cold. You wouldn't have an absurd destructive shutdown to try to limit the numbers getting a cold or regular seasonal Flu, so why is it justified for coronavirus?
> There's plenty of high risk people out there who really don't want to be infected, but they know who they are so should minimise contact, and the rest of us with high risk friends and relatives can do our bit by staying away from them.
> Think of the population as two "bubbles", a low risk one and a high risk one. The two groups need to try not to mix with the other group too much, but there's no reason to avoid mixing within their own group. A high infection rate amongst the low risk population won't translate into high numbers of hospitalisations and deaths, and an ever increasing level of immunity will reduce the danger of the virus spreading to high risk people.as it's transmission route will become less and less efficient.


Tell that to my 27yr old son who was previously in very good health, was coughed over in a supermarket, and now, six weeks later is barely able to function. He is a long way from being able to return to work.


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

Or the plonkers at work who came in last week for a Team meeting in our building, no social distancing and no masks. Have a guess what happened ?

Yep one has tested positive so the rest have had to self isolate and now reschedule their lectures on-line - fortunately their student's hadn't arrived last week. You can't make it up. The reaction has been 'they did what ?'. So that's a whole subject group down because of stupidity. 

This is only the start.


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## Rezillo (10 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> The skientific method:
> 1. Decide your conclusion.
> 2. Quote any facts which correlate to your conclusion, however weakly. Ignore any confounding information.
> 3. Repeat.
> 4. Carry on repeating.



Unfortunately, there are many people who think that this approach is how science works. 

It did make Erich Von Daniken a lot of money, though.


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## Julia9054 (10 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Think of the population as two "bubbles", a low risk one and a high risk one


That’s clearly not true. You can think of it more like a sliding scale. There are plenty of people (myself included) who’s risk would be described as medium. They can choose not to socialise if they want but I doubt they have the option not to go to work - I certainly don’t . Even high risk individuals who were previously shielding now have to get back to work.


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## Andy in Germany (10 Sep 2020)

Half way through the day we heard a client had had contact with someone who has since been diagnosed with C-19; I'm her team leader so I had to tell her she needed a test. Poor lady was distraught: she doesn't entirely understand C-19 but she's been in lockdown before and struggled. I still had to send her to the Doc to protect the other clients.
I informed the staff at the sheltered housing and then they gave me a scare about five hours later by calling because she hadn't turned up. Thankfully they found her after another half hour.
If the test is positive the whole sheltered housing block will be in lockdown for two weeks...


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## winjim (10 Sep 2020)

They are we and we are they.


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## MontyVeda (10 Sep 2020)

I'm baffled by Boris' recent advice... _don't have a test unless you have symptoms_... but if we can transmit the virus for a fortnight before showing symptoms, it makes a lot of sense to have the test then you'll know whether or not you need to isolate yourself from immediate family, work colleagues or your gran. Is it all about the financial cost of a test?


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Sep 2020)

Still clear of any symptoms at moment and exercise indicates no changes there.


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## newfhouse (10 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> They are we and we are they.


I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.


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## Flick of the Elbow (10 Sep 2020)

An email from the local CTC group this evening states their intention to still go ahead with clubruns in spite of the new rule of 6 and the no more than 2 households rule. Apparently a clubrun counts as ‘organised sport’ ! This is utter nonsense, a CTC clubrun is no different from a group of pals meeting up and going to a cafe together. There is no way that going to a cafe should be allowed to come under the organised sport exemption.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Sep 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> An email from the local CTC group this evening states their intention to still go ahead with clubruns in spite of the new rule of 6 and the no more than 2 households rule. Apparently a clubrun counts as ‘organised sport’ ! This is utter nonsense, a CTC clubrun is no different from a group of pals meeting up and going to a cafe together. There is no way that going to a cafe should be allowed to come under the organised sport exemption.



There isn’t a two household rule


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## fossyant (10 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> There isn’t a two household rule



There will be in Scotland


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## byegad (11 Sep 2020)

Hi Everyone. Just checking in after a while.

1. We, Lady Byegad and myself, plus extended family which includes 2 key workers, are AOK. 
2. Our, Lady Byegad and myself, decision to ignore the relaxation of lockdown and keep ourselves to ourselves has paid off, and given that local schools are reporting cases already and 3 of the 5 biggest towns in our area are on a watch/at risk list, we are feeling pretty smug that we didn't rush out to attractions, pubs or shopping centres.
3. In our little walks, and runs out in the car, no stopping where there are any people about, we've noticed people wearing masks with their noses uncovered and others unmasked and chatting face to face under 2m and in a 'crowd'.
4. We are concerned at the gibberment's rush to normality which, to us, was too fast with steps being taken one after another, without giving each step time to succeed or fail, before the next 'relaxation' was announced. It's, sadly no surprise to us that we are seeing the infection numbers go up, and yes I know about more tests = more cases. 
5. Also we are annoyed at the rhetoric used by Boris and his gang with regard to mitigation of the situation. One more 'World beating' fark-up or 'Moonshot initiative' which even his 'experts' doubt is possible, and I think I'll scream.
6. Our only concern at the moment is that the economy, which has understandably taken a huge hit, won't recover and many young people's future will be irreparably damaged. At the moment we count ourselves lucky that our working lives are over.

I wish you all good luck and please, please take care.


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## wafter (11 Sep 2020)

As much as I genuinely feared the effects of the virus initially, does anyone else feel that this is just being mercilessly hijacked as political tool of coercian, control and exploitation? Let's face it the establishment will always capitalise on any situation to chase their agenda (such as bailing out the banks in the financial crisis) and while their actions seemed largely legitimate and proportionate in the beginning, now it seems increasingly like they're clutching at straws for justification. 

Looking at the latest stats, while our daily no. of confirmed cases has ramped back up and is now at 40% of where it was at peak, the amount of deaths has decayed exponentially since the first spike and shows no sign of further growth.

Tbh now I'm far more concerned about the measures being taken as justified by the virus than the direct effect of the virus itself..


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## srw (11 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> does anyone else feel that this is just being mercilessly hijacked as political tool of coercian, control and exploitation?


No.


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## Mugshot (11 Sep 2020)

View: https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1304363138347929600?s=19


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## Flick of the Elbow (11 Sep 2020)

Pleased to see an addendum from the Lothians CTC this morning, noting that although the ride itself is exempt from the rule of 6, Scottish Cycling are saying


> restrictions must be adhered to outwith the organised activity. 6 people from 2 households. This applies to café stops before, during and after rides.


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## newfhouse (11 Sep 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...england-doubling-every-eight-days-study-shows


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## gbb (11 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> As much as I genuinely feared the effects of the virus initially, does anyone else feel that this is just being mercilessly hijacked as political tool of coercian, control and exploitation? Let's face it the establishment will always capitalise on any situation to chase their agenda (such as bailing out the banks in the financial crisis) and while their actions seemed largely legitimate and proportionate in the beginning, now it seems increasingly like they're clutching at straws for justification.
> 
> Looking at the latest stats, while our daily no. of confirmed cases has ramped back up and is now at 40% of where it was at peak, the amount of deaths has decayed exponentially since the first spike and shows no sign of further growth.
> 
> Tbh now I'm far more concerned about the measures being taken as justified by the virus than the direct effect of the virus itself..


Yes and no. 
I don't really do politics so take a very simple view on it and will no doubt be pulled to pieces but....
I don't really see any underlying tactics from the government. They have been incredibly benevolent regarding financial support, more than any Tory government in existence i should think (with the caveat it's not their money of course) , Furloughing, the Eat Out scheme, support for self employed etc etc Its never enough, it never can be but its been enough to get people through it. Of course it could be better but we're all going to be paying for this for a long time as it is. Of course they've made mistakes, big ones and used plenty of rhetoric that's fallen apart but i'd sooner they had an optimistic outlook than a gloomy one.

Yes it is being mercilessly highjacked for political ends by anyone who doesn't agree, The endless complaints from anyone negatively effected is endless and while i sympathise, no-one can fix all the issues everyone has.

While the infection cases increase, there WILL be an increase in deaths, it just takes time to filter through. The death figures will look different in a couple weeks i should think


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## roubaixtuesday (11 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...england-doubling-every-eight-days-study-shows
> 
> View attachment 546530



Meanwhile, SAGE inexplicably reckons the daily growth rate is no higher than 3%, and case might even be dropping by 1% daily(!)


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/jamesannan/status/1304398401786843142


(James Annan is a climate scientist, expert in modeling, albeit not formally an Epidemiologist)


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## DCLane (11 Sep 2020)

Currently in a hotel near Fareham for tomorrow's CTT youth national time trial. The restaurant here has done reservations, ordering and processes really well. Congrats to The Lodge @ Solent compared to many others I've been in.

Oh, and my bike club's implementing a pre-booking system for future rides, capacity of 6, after we had 24 turn up on Sunday. If you've not booked, you're not in.


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Sep 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm baffled by Boris' recent advice... _don't have a test unless you have symptoms_... but if we can transmit the virus for a fortnight before showing symptoms, it makes a lot of sense to have the test then you'll know whether or not you need to isolate yourself from immediate family, work colleagues or your gran. Is it all about the financial cost of a test?



I find this odd too. I'm totally opposed to the idea of expecting large numbers of people to pointlessly isolate themselves "just in case", when the vast majority of them won't have the virus. If we are going to limit the disruption & damage, this all needs to be done a lot more intelligently. That means making it easy for anyone to get on-demand tests whenever they want. If people could test themselves regularly they could ensure they didn't spread the virus, but everyone would still be able to go about as normal. Isolating perfectly "clean" individuals simply because no-one knows if they have the virus or not is extremely inefficient and economically costly, and is just not sustainable over a long period.


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## PaulSB (12 Sep 2020)

DCLane said:


> Currently in a hotel near Fareham for tomorrow's CTT youth national time trial. The restaurant here has done reservations, ordering and processes really well. Congrats to The Lodge @ Solent compared to many others I've been in.
> 
> Oh, and my bike club's implementing a pre-booking system for future rides, capacity of 6, after we had 24 turn up on Sunday. If you've not booked, you're not in.


Would you be able to provide some detail on the booking system. It's something my club want to introduce in an attempt to restart club rides.

Thanks


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## IaninSheffield (12 Sep 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Would you be able to provide some detail on the booking system. It's something my club want to introduce in an attempt to restart club rides.
> 
> Thanks


One option you might consider Paul is Eventbrite, a ticketing system which is free if you're not charging attendees. I've used it for arranging attendance at talks, presentations etc. - worked well for our needs.
There are open source alternatives with similar features and functions if that's important to you.


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## DCLane (12 Sep 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Would you be able to provide some detail on the booking system. It's something my club want to introduce in an attempt to restart club rides.
> 
> Thanks



They're trying one via Facebook events. A club that seems to have it working is Seacroft Wheeler - see their FB page for a good example.


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## raleighnut (12 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I find this odd too. I'm totally opposed to the idea of expecting large numbers of people to pointlessly isolate themselves "just in case", when the vast majority of them won't have the virus. If we are going to limit the disruption & damage, this all needs to be done a lot more intelligently. That means making it easy for anyone to get on-demand tests whenever they want. If people could test themselves regularly they could ensure they didn't spread the virus, but everyone would still be able to go about as normal. Isolating perfectly "clean" individuals simply because no-one knows if they have the virus or not is extremely inefficient and economically costly, and is just not sustainable over a long period.


Even if you took a test you could catch it before you got the results though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Sep 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Even if you took a test you could catch it before you got the results though.



No regime is going to capture every infection, that's simply unrealistic to set the bar at that level. Even if you could only identify 50% of those with the virus it would still make a substantial difference, but without causing anything like the amount of disruption and lost productive hours that blanket self-isolation policies create. 

Yesterday a colleague who works for a different manager told me they had two staff with virus-like symptoms, who had just reported in sick. The group comprises 24 staff + 1 manager. After much head scratching, they reckon ten other staff plus the manager had been in close contact with the two with the symptoms, so they've all been sent home. That's 13 people off work plus another member of staff taken off their normal job to provide cover for the manager. So they're down to 11 out of 24 staff doing productive work for a fortnight. The country can't afford to keep doing this sort of thing for months on end, where every time one person goes down with anything, half the people they work with get sent home. The pay cost is astronomical, and backlogs of work then build up too.
If you had a user-friendly test regime, you could get everyone sent home to have a test early next week, and if the results were same day, you could then get all the negatives back to work the day after. You might miss someone, but you'd probably catch the majority of infections. You wouldn't have a 50% absentee rate for two weeks for every sniffle.


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## winjim (12 Sep 2020)

It needs a cheap and easy rapid point of care test really, but I don't know if such a thing is feasible.


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## newfhouse (12 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> It needs a cheap and easy rapid point of care test really, but I don't know if such a thing is feasible.


On the moon, apparently.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Sep 2020)

Hi all and hope you're all well.
I've been back at work now a good few weeks and can gladly say it really busy. In fact it's so busy it's been hard work getting the energy to get out and enjoy a bike ride. 
Sadly thought Covid has made its presence felt in the work place. 
My company has done everything practically possible to make it safe but this virus is very difficult to control and it's inevitably reared it's ugly head amongst is. 
Last Friday we all had a Covid test down at a local mobile testing station and what a joke that was. We were told we will get are results within 48 hours via text.
The following Sunday instead of a text, i got a call to tell me i tested negative. Phew that was a relief, and reason for the call instead of a text was because they were experiencing technical problems with the texting process. 
Throughout the week though most of the staff had not heard anything of there results, whilst others were getting calls and being asked if there names were such and such to which they were not. To me it looked like the testing station had somehow got the names and contact numbers mixed up of the people being tested. 
Not very confidences inspiring. 
Sadly last week it was confirmed a few staff members had proven positive, which is very worrying for the rest of us.
With paranoia running wild amongst us, the slightest signs of feeling unwell sets off the alarm bells.
These last few nights I've been feeling extremely tired and been heading off to bed for 8pm. Its unusual for me as i usually like to get out of the bike in the evening and get a few miles in before bed time, but I've just haven't had the energy.
Last night i woke up around 2am with a monumental headache and sweating like a pig and not long after started vomiting.
The first thing you think of under the circumstances is have i caught Covid. 
Strangely this morning i feel ok apart from a little fuzzy headed. 
I've been enjoying a few occasional beers at the weekend since the pubs have reopened and most of them have been very proactive with there track and trace program and ensuring social distancing is maintained. But one pub in particular seems to be completely ignoring it. No details or contact information are asked for, and the place is rammed packed with youngsters sitting on top of each other. I took one look at it and walked away..
The pub in question from all accounts has operated like this since the first opened. To me, this is fine example where the virus could re emerge into a second wave again.
I had so many plans this weekend to see family and friends but after suffering from last night's illness I'm keeping well away, just to be on the safe side.
It could be just something as simple as food poisoning (as I'm not the best of cooks:=)), but none the less, you do automatically think of the worst in these current times


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## Mugshot (12 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> On the moon, apparently.


You'd have to wear those helmets and suits and things on the moon too, so not a bad shout for slowing down the infection rate, plus it might sort out the anti-maskers.


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## bikingdad90 (12 Sep 2020)

Noravirus is circulating at the moment so it could be that.


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## Rusty Nails (12 Sep 2020)

I've just been down the local Spar. The young lad behind the counter, always friendly, asked me would I have a vaccine when it comes about. I said I would, partly because I am in a higher risk category, but also because it may help improve the overall infection rates eventually.

He said he wasn't sure if he would, but he had heard the the government was planning to use the Army to force the population to have the vaccine .

I just smiled (not that he could tell as I was wearing a mask) and wished him a good day. 

It's amazing how conspiracy stories spread.


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## newfhouse (12 Sep 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> he had heard the the government was planning to use the Army to force the population to have the vaccine .
> 
> It's amazing how conspiracy stories spread.


I hadn't heard that, but I'll be sure to pass it on.


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## marinyork (12 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> I hadn't heard that, but I'll be sure to pass it on.



You better be quick then, the vaccine might stop you passing the virus on.


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## newfhouse (12 Sep 2020)

marinyork said:


> You better be quick then, the vaccine might stop you passing the virus on.


I don't think there's an effective vaccine against most conspiracy theories.


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## marinyork (12 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> I don't think there's an effective vaccine against most conspiracy theories.



Common sense.


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## newfhouse (12 Sep 2020)

marinyork said:


> Common sense.


Old fashioned British common sense? How's that working out?


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## cougie uk (12 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> As much as I genuinely feared the effects of the virus initially, does anyone else feel that this is just being mercilessly hijacked as political tool of coercian, control and exploitation? Let's face it the establishment will always capitalise on any situation to chase their agenda (such as bailing out the banks in the financial crisis) and while their actions seemed largely legitimate and proportionate in the beginning, now it seems increasingly like they're clutching at straws for justification.
> 
> Looking at the latest stats, while our daily no. of confirmed cases has ramped back up and is now at 40% of where it was at peak, the amount of deaths has decayed exponentially since the first spike and shows no sign of further growth.
> 
> Tbh now I'm far more concerned about the measures being taken as justified by the virus than the direct effect of the virus itself..


Er no. It's a fkn global pandemic that's killed what 80k in the UK alone including one of my family members. 

Coercion and control ? This government couldn't control anything. Don't give them the credit.


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Sep 2020)

cougie uk said:


> Er no. It's a fkn global pandemic that's killed what 80k in the UK alone including one of my family members.



Posting hysterical and demonstrably fake figures does your argument no favours whatsoever.

The official death toll under the 28 day rule, is under 42,000.
Deaths which mentioned the coronavirus are under 57,000.
The worst case excess deaths for year measure is 65,000.

None of those numbers are remotely near 80,000, and are easily checked, so why make up fake numbers just to try to give the impression things are worse than they really are?


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## twentysix by twentyfive (12 Sep 2020)

Tired = bit of stress/anxiety with the situation?


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## gavgav (12 Sep 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> Hi all and hope you're all well.
> I've been back at work now a good few weeks and can gladly say it really busy. In fact it's so busy it's been hard work getting the energy to get out and enjoy a bike ride.
> Sadly thought Covid has made its presence felt in the work place.
> My company has done everything practically possible to make it safe but this virus is very difficult to control and it's inevitably reared it's ugly head amongst is.
> ...


Please get yourself tested again. You may have been negative when you had your first test, but now be positive?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Sep 2020)

Assuming they didn’t mix up all the names and test results.


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## bikingdad90 (12 Sep 2020)

Incubation period is on average 5 days but can take up to 10 to appear symptomatic. 

During this period your infectious but asymptomatic. If you test positive you need to isolate for 10 days from finding out but your contacts need to isolate for 14 days due to the incubation period.


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## johnnyb47 (12 Sep 2020)

Very true to the above posts. At the moment I feel perfectly fine apart from a little knackered (probably from the interrupted sleep)
Its the worry of having it and not knowing you have it that bothers me. Spreading dirty germs around to the weak and vulnerable is not a good thing in the least. Yet again it could just be something I've eaten. It's a lottery all the time, but you must always act on the side of caution..
I've got plenty of food and beer in, so I'm going to have a few quiet days in and see how it goes. If i get worse or suffer any of the specific symptoms I'll act on it straight away..
The cycling will have to take a back seat holiday for the time being though.


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## Archie_tect (12 Sep 2020)

Got a really heavy cold, but that's the difficult part- no temperature or change in taste or shortness of breath so taking the view it isn't Covid underlying it.

We live a self-isolating life anyway so no hardship to keep away from others for a week after I get rid of it!


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## silva (13 Sep 2020)

Based on aboves Archie_tect 's post #2527 - a general question I want to ask everybody here.
Taking for true the next premises:

1) the governments anti SARS-CoV2 virus spreading laws (to force upon people certain behaviours) work, thus decrease the spreading

2) that the Corona family type SARS-CoV2 virus is more dangerous than the Influenza family types and that this justifies 1)

The next question: if the obeyed laws DO work to stop the spread of SARS-CoV2 and the eventual outcome CoVid-19 desease, how on Earth would the obeyed laws NOT stop the less-spreading common cold or seasonal flu?
Or put in other words: if people DO get a cold now, or a "common" flu, wouldn't that prove a general failure of the laws to limit/stop SARS-CoV2?
Or put along an analogy: if a wall is not able to stop a motorcycle, how would it stop a truck?


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## fossyant (13 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> Based on aboves Archie_tect 's post #2527 - a general question I want to ask everybody here.
> Taking for true the next premises:
> 
> 1) the governments anti SARS-CoV2 virus spreading laws (to force upon people certain behaviours) work, thus decrease the spreading
> ...



Pardon ?


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## classic33 (13 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> Based on aboves Archie_tect 's post #2527 - a general question I want to ask everybody here.
> Taking for true the next premises:
> 
> 1) the governments anti SARS-CoV2 virus spreading laws (to force upon people certain behaviours) work, thus decrease the spreading
> ...


A "common" cold isn't a virus.

Shouldn't that question have been asked in the Coronavirus thread?
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/


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## DaveReading (13 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> Based on aboves Archie_tect 's post #2527 - a general question I want to ask everybody here.
> Taking for true the next premises:
> 
> 1) the governments anti SARS-CoV2 virus spreading laws (to force upon people certain behaviours) work, thus decrease the spreading
> ...



Why do you think they won't ?


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## vickster (13 Sep 2020)

classic33 said:


> A "common" cold isn't a virus.


Well it is caused by one....rhinovirus...however rarely fatal


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## Julia9054 (13 Sep 2020)

classic33 said:


> A "common" cold isn't a virus.


Yes it is


silva said:


> The next question: if the obeyed laws DO work to stop the spread of SARS-CoV2 and the eventual outcome CoVid-19 desease, how on Earth would the obeyed laws NOT stop the less-spreading common cold or seasonal flu?


They do (though obvs not infallible). I realise I am a data set of one but I have not had a cold since the end of January. As a teacher, that is unheard of. 
I’m not expecting my record to last


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## newfhouse (13 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Yes it is
> 
> They do (though obvs not infallible). I realise I am a data set of one but I have not had a cold since the end of January. As a teacher, that is unheard of.
> I’m not expecting my record to last


Another data point here. Not a sign of anything other than hay-fever sniffles since January, apart from possible mild COV19 in March.


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## matticus (13 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Yes it is
> 
> They do (though obvs not infallible). I realise I am a data set of one but I have not had a cold since the end of January. As a teacher, that is unheard of.
> I’m not expecting my record to last


... now that you're back in the classroom, presumably?


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## matticus (13 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Another data point here. Not a sign of anything other than hay-fever sniffles since January, apart from possible mild COV19 in March.


Perhaps the point here is that we can be optimistic about this winters flu figures?
IAMFI!


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## Julia9054 (13 Sep 2020)

matticus said:


> ... now that you're back in the classroom, presumably?


Yup


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## Rusty Nails (13 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> Based on aboves Archie_tect 's post #2527 - a general question I want to ask everybody here.
> Taking for true the next premises:
> 
> 1) the governments anti SARS-CoV2 virus spreading laws (to force upon people certain behaviours) work, thus decrease the spreading
> ...



That's a compelling argument for permanent lockdown. We'll all be healthier....won't we?


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## newfhouse (13 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> The next question: if the obeyed laws DO work to stop the spread of SARS-CoV2 and the eventual outcome CoVid-19 desease, how on Earth would the obeyed laws NOT stop the less-spreading common cold or seasonal flu?


I read a while ago that, in the UK at least, flu and similar causes of death are lower than in "normal" years. This has reduced the excess deaths figure from where it might have been. I'll try to find a link to the source.


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## matticus (13 Sep 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> That's a compelling argument for permanent lockdown. We'll all be healthier....won't we?


Make sure you leave a window open. We should be fine :-)


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## pjd57 (13 Sep 2020)

Had a nice week in Greece.
First day there , it went back on the quarantine list for Scotland.....

Still enjoyed the holiday.

Six down , eight to go !


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## Stephenite (13 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Yes it is
> 
> They do (though obvs not infallible). I realise I am a data set of one but I have not had a cold since the end of January. As a teacher, that is unheard of.
> I’m not expecting my record to last


Datapoint three reporting.
Schools/kindergartens went back after summer three weeks ago. Nasty cold with cough and fever picked up by all the family. I was tested in week one and week two. Negative. Assume that whole family have same non-Covid bug. We all go back and then youngest is sent home as there is a suspected case in her cohort/bubble at the kindergarten. Awaiting test result.

There's going to be a winter of this, it seems.


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## bikingdad90 (14 Sep 2020)

Yes, I am suspecting nursery/kindergartens/schools will play it very safe and send children home with a cough that isn’t Covid and ask them to stay away for two weeks until it is gone. Going to have an interesting impact on parents having to work from home and look after the child as winter colds and flu pick up.


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## winjim (14 Sep 2020)

As soon as school went back our family all picked up a cold, so isolation, testing and time off work and school for us.


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## fossyant (14 Sep 2020)

A


winjim said:


> As soon as school went back our family all picked up a cold, so isolation, testing and time off work and school for us.



Are schools then sending kids home with a cold. It's going to be crazy.


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## C R (14 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> A
> 
> 
> Are schools then sending kids home with a cold. It's going to be crazy.


They are only supposed to send back children with persistent cough or temperature, runny nose or sneezing are not considered reasons for sending home according to the flow chart our children schools sent.


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## marinyork (14 Sep 2020)

Track and trace at the pub yesterday used a tombola machine! A farce. No logging of time. No logging of table or indoor outdoors. If anyone gets the virus track and trace are going to have fun with that. I suspect everyone - hundreds of visitors in a long day will get told to isolate. The the pub and track and trace are both responsible.

A shame as that's the only pub I'll visit, you can be about 8 metres away from anyone else and I was apart from the one other person I went with.


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## winjim (14 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> A
> 
> 
> Are schools then sending kids home with a cold. It's going to be crazy.


I don't know, my wife and I had to be isolated and get tested because sore throat is on the list of symptoms at the NHS trust where we work. If we didn't work for the NHS we wouldn't have been tested. So do we send the kids to school or not? We and they don't have symptoms according to national and school advice, but we are being tested. It's not really clear.


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## Julia9054 (14 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> They are only supposed to send back children with persistent cough or temperature, runny nose or sneezing are not considered reasons for sending home according to the flow chart our children schools sent.


I’m a teacher not a doctor. I don’t want to make that call


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## C R (14 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I’m a teacher not a doctor. I don’t want to make that call


I agree, I'm just explaining what we got from school.


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## Electric_Andy (14 Sep 2020)

My son had a cold on Thursday, so his mum kept him off school on Friday. No cough or temperature. School were happy to have him back today. I've now got a sore throat so I've probbaly caught a cold of my son, but again no Covid symptoms. I'm still working from home anyway so I don't have to go into work. By all accounts, colds are doing the rounds again now but I guess it's inevitable with kids being home for so long and suddenly mixing with 30 kids again.


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## fossyant (15 Sep 2020)

Well the fun has started. Nursing student tested positive so thats her bubble and two staff who have to self isolate. Head of Department trying to find teaching cover. Staff can work from home, but face to face teaching is needed.


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## Bonefish Blues (15 Sep 2020)

Mingle mingle little star, what a prat Pritti you are.

Worth a re-listen to hear her on R4 Today making an utter fool of herself.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2020)

Entire year groups being sent home from local schools with positive cases in the year. 

Also entire year group of any sibling of a positive case. 

Is this the same everywhere? If so, there's no viable way to run schools, surely, given the current prevalence?


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## C R (15 Sep 2020)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Mingle mingle little star, what a prat Pritti you are.
> 
> Worth a re-listen to hear her on R4 Today making an utter fool of herself.


Well, I'm no fan of hers, but this is slightly better than her usual gormless self, the whole rule of six is a dogs dinner, and there's not much that can be said about it without sounding like an idiot.


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## Bonefish Blues (15 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> Well, I'm no fan of hers, but this is slightly better than her usual gormless self, the whole rule of six is a dogs dinner, and there's not much that can be said about it without sounding like an idiot.


But she managed to make it _even_ worse, shirley?!


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## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

I went to the local covid testing centre today. It's only a 5 minute walk away,so i can't complain about them being too far away,unlike for some. It was very hot and on arrival i was told i'd be queuing for about 90 minutes to get the test done. I thought about it,but decided not to bother after hearing some person shout out as they passed "The government want your DNA,it's as simple as that"! I was also told by the woman next to me that the test is very unpleasant,involving swabs being rammed up to the hilt up your nose. I decided not to bother and walked away.


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## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went to the local covid testing centre today. It's only a 5 minute walk away,so i can't complain about them being too far away,unlike for some. It was very hot and on arrival i was told i'd be queuing for about 90 minutes to get the test done. I thought about it,but decided not to bother after hearing some person shout out as they passed "The government want your DNA,it's as simple as that"! I was also told by the woman next to me that the test is very unpleasant,involving swabs being rammed up to the hilt up your nose. I decided not to bother and walked away.


Unpleasant? I do one every week, twice last week. It's a bit uncomfortable, makes your eyes water but it's OK. Honestly it's nothing too bad. The availability and the waiting time does need sorting out though, it's no good if it's putting people off.

If the government wanted your DNA, if you're young enough they already have it so I wouldn't worry.


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## midlife (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I went to the local covid testing centre today. It's only a 5 minute walk away,so i can't complain about them being too far away,unlike for some. It was very hot and on arrival i was told i'd be queuing for about 90 minutes to get the test done. I thought about it,but decided not to bother after hearing some person shout out as they passed "The government want your DNA,it's as simple as that"! I was also told by the woman next to me that the test is very unpleasant,involving swabs being rammed up to the hilt up your nose. I decided not to bother and walked away.



If you have COVID symptoms you should get tested. It's not too bad as people have said. For the greater good and all that.....


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> If the government wanted your DNA, if you're young enough they already have it so I wouldn't worry.


They don't have mine...as far as i know. Maybe they take DNA samples during operations that you obviously do not know about.🤔 I'm not a big conspiracy theorist,but would you blindly trust the authorities?🤔


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## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

midlife said:


> If you have COVID symptoms you should get tested. It's not too bad as people have said. For the greater good and all that.....


I don't have any symptoms though..... as far as i know. I seriously thought the test was to see if you have or have had it,not to see if you have it because you think you might have it.🤔 Surely all those in the 3 hour (according to reports) queue this morning can't all think they have or have had the virus?🤔


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## midlife (15 Sep 2020)

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron.../get-a-test-to-check-if-you-have-coronavirus/

You only present for a test if you have symptoms of COVID or you have been told to get a test.


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## Mugshot (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I don't have any symptoms though..... as far as i know. I seriously thought the test was to see if you have or have had it,not to see if you have it because you think you might have it.🤔 Surely all those in the 3 hour (according to reports) queue this morning can't all think they have or have had the virus?🤔


I'm really not a fan of this government or the shambles that they've created, but people just wandering up to testing stations 'cos they're feeling curious isn't going to help the situation we're currently in with testing.


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## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> They don't have mine...as far as i know. Maybe they take DNA samples during operations that you obviously do not know about.🤔 I'm not a big conspiracy theorist,but would you blindly trust the authorities?🤔


I trust what happens to clinical samples as I work in a clinical lab. Most get destroyed pretty quickly after analysis but there are archives of some types of sample. I'm sure the government, if it was minded to, would be able to concoct some excuse to seize them. It hasn't yet, as far as I know.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'm not a big conspiracy theorist,but...


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## newfhouse (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> I trust what happens to clinical samples as I work in a clinical lab.


You would say that, wouldn’t you? How does he know you don’t want to clone him?


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

Mugshot said:


> cos they're feeling curious is


So are you saying you have to be put forward for a test by your GP? I honestly thought they were for anyone who was willing to have one.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

@Accy cyclist Please don’t go to Covid testing centres because you were bored.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

The swab test tells you if you are likely to currently have the virus, the blood test tells you if you are likely to have had it. The swab test won't tell you if you've had it in the past.


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> @Accy cyclist Please don’t go to Covid testing centres because you were bored.


I saw quite a few people there who looked like they were going to have the test because it's 'free'. Some folk will take anything if it's on offer for nothing! I still think your DNA details will be stored.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> I saw quite a few people there who looked like they were going to have the test because it's 'free'. Some folk will take anything if it's on offer for nothing! I still think your DNA details will be stored.



They already have it if you’ve ever been to the doctor


----------



## vickster (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> So are you saying you have to be put forward for a test by your GP? I honestly thought they were for anyone who was willing to have one.


No and no and linked above


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> the blood test


Blood test! no one mentioned a blood test!  The thought of a needle being rammed into my arm on a hot day is a recipe for fainting!!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> @Accy cyclist Please don’t go to Covid testing centres because you were bored.



Also @Accy cyclist don't go because they inject you with nanobots which when activated give you an insatiable lust for Anne Widdecombe. Beware!!


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Blood test! no one mentioned a blood test!  The thought of a needle being rammed into my arm on a hot day is a recipe for fainting!!


Ha. It's a proper venous sample too, not one of these wimpy thumbprick capillary jobs.

But you certainly can't just rock up and get one, the testing centres are equipped for the swab test, not the blood test.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Also @Accy cyclist don't go because they inject you with nanobots which when activated give you an insatiable lust for Anne Widdecombe. Beware!!



Then Bill Gates will track you via 5G.


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Also @Accy cyclist don't go because they inject you with nanobots which when activated give you an insatiable lust for Anne Widdecombe. Beware!!


That wouldn't bother me. Now if they gave me summat that'd activate insatiable lust for Diane Abbott then... !!!!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2020)

Be afraid @Accy cyclist , be *very* afraid. 


View: https://youtu.be/PhfbYtbpNxY


[Completely off topic obviously. But how I miss Victoria Wood, she would brighten up any pandemic!]


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> They already have it if you’ve ever been to the doctor


Unlikely although some samples are stored. But the sample belongs to the patient and nothing should happen to it without consent. If you want it destroyed, it should be destroyed, although I don't know what the mechanism is to request this after initial consent has been given for storage.


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Unlikely although some samples are stored. But the sample belongs to the patient and nothing should happen to it without consent. If you want it destroyed, it should be destroyed, although I don't know what the mechanism is to request this after initial consent has been given for storage.


Do you think that conspiracy theorists care for sensible replies? What would the government do with dna samples of random people anyway.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Unlikely although some samples are stored. But the sample belongs to the patient and nothing should happen to it without consent. If you want it destroyed, it should be destroyed, although I don't know what the mechanism is to request this after initial consent has been given for storage.



I think the joke has passed right over your head


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> Do you think that conspiracy theorists care for sensible replies? What would the government do with dna samples of random people anyway.


I have no idea. Digital tracking seems to be the thing these days.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I think the joke has passed right over your head


I'm not sure what the joke is. I already made the point upthread that there is a massive archive of clinical samples that the government could access if it so wished.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

newfhouse said:


> You would say that, wouldn’t you? How does he know you don’t want to clone him?


Do we need another one?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> I'm not sure what the joke is. I already made the point upthread that there is a massive archive of clinical samples that the government could access if it so wished.



Suggest you start with Accy’s post.


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Do we need another one?


The government probably can do with a few more,


----------



## fossyant (15 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> The government probably can do with a few more,



There is only one @Accy cyclist and he's ours !


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Suggest you start with Accy’s post.


🤷‍♂️


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

Ok,cards on the table! The NWO are running the country...obviously,seeing as they run the whole world,so i won't be having any DNA gathering 'covid' test and i won't be having any vaccine,not even a flu one as we simply don't know what crap they'll be injecting into us!👎


----------



## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> we simply don't know what crap they'll be injecting into us!



But I've already told you. We do know! It's the Widdecombe nanobots!!

Get with the programme.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

Holy hell, all these years of doing laboratory science and I've just realised why they call it a...


...control.


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Holy hell, all these years of doing laboratory science and I've just realised why they call it a...
> 
> 
> ...control.


You've given it away now. Remain where you are, the reprogramming team are on their way.


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

Bonefish Blues said:


> But she managed to make it _even_ worse, shirley?!


I don't think anyone could make it any worse, not even a nincompoop like Patel.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Ok,cards on the table! The NWO are running the country...obviously,seeing as they run the whole world,so i won't be having any DNA gathering 'covid' test and i won't be having any vaccine,not even a flu one as we simply don't know what crap they'll be injecting into us!👎


----------



## Accy cyclist (15 Sep 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> View attachment 547355


Yes,they are the ones running the show!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes,they are the ones running the show!



The producers?


----------



## silva (15 Sep 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Why do you think they won't ?


That is aside my question.
How can people fear common flu / other spreading virii, if governments forced upon rules are intended to stop the SARS-CoV2 type virus spreading.
Or put in an analogy: if a wall is ment to stop a tank, why fear a car?


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

silva said:


> That is aside my question.
> How can people fear common flu / other spreading virii, if governments forced upon rules are intended to stop the SARS-CoV2 type virus spreading.
> Or put in an analogy: if a wall is ment to stop a tank, why fear a car?


The incidence of flu and common cold this year is way down on previous years, as expected, the measures put in place to stop covid also stop other diseases transmitted via the same mechanism.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01538-8


----------



## All uphill (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes,they are the ones running the show!


I'm glad someone is. I thought things were out of control for a while...


----------



## silva (15 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Yes it is
> 
> They do (though obvs not infallible). I realise I am a data set of one but I have not had a cold since the end of January. As a teacher, that is unheard of.
> I’m not expecting my record to last


I usually have every year two periods of unable to breathe through nose (annoyant since that's what I do), partly lost voice, about a week each. In older years usually september october, in more recent august september, for what that change is worth statistically.
In early august I had a couple days only voice, and only a bit, not worth speaking of. It was like a attempt to a begin that didn't begin.
Don't know why, but I never (entire life) had colds after october. It's like the early infections train the immune system to cope with the later.
Your case is totally different, as a teacher plenty contact, my case is alot less, I work alone, nearly no family left, only some same people I see / speak to at shops.
But this situation is since a long time, and for me it's too soon to talk about 2020 already.
At work, and as usual / every year, they offered a couple weeks ago vaccinations against flu.
So despite the rather extreme (never occurred before in history) government actions, there is still some fear out there for common flu and other virii, and that I find weird / illogical.
A typical flu season kills 250k-500k people worldwide. 
Imagine 2020 (3+ months left) or 2021 having such a flu season, despite all the corona related limits on and control over people. That would be remarkable, no?


----------



## classic33 (15 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Unpleasant? I do one every week, twice last week. It's a bit uncomfortable, makes your eyes water but it's OK. Honestly it's nothing too bad. The availability and the waiting time does need sorting out though, it's no good if it's putting people off.
> 
> If the government wanted your DNA, if you're young enough they already have it so I wouldn't worry.


Well, he'll have had blood tests over the years.


----------



## Mugshot (15 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> I don't think anyone could make it any worse, not even a nincompoop like Patel.


Like for nincompoop, and the general sentiment, but especially for nincompoop, greatly underused in my opinion.


----------



## classic33 (15 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Ok,cards on the table! The NWO are running the country...obviously,seeing as they run the whole world,so i won't be having any DNA gathering 'covid' test and i won't be having any vaccine,not even a flu one as we simply don't know what crap they'll be injecting into us!👎


Dr. Li-Meng Yan


----------



## C R (15 Sep 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Like for nincompoop, and the general sentiment, but especially for nincompoop, greatly underused in my opinion.


I like how it sounds, the mere sound of it conveys its meaning, it is almost onomatopoeic.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

classic33 said:


> Well, he'll have had blood tests over the years.


And unless they're particularly interesting or unusual, those blood samples will have had the requested tests performed and then been incinerated, probably within a matter of weeks.


----------



## winjim (15 Sep 2020)

C R said:


> I like how it sounds, the mere sound of it conveys its meaning, it is almost onomatopoeic.


It's a lovely melodic, rhythmic word in the right context. Time for a musical interlude...


View: https://youtu.be/9a_RHkruaW0


----------



## Accy cyclist (16 Sep 2020)

It looks like us single/living alone people are going to be hit hard....again!! Never mind all this 'we can't hug our grandchildren,because of the rule of 6' blah blah. People living alone need social interaction! A few of us were discussing this down the pub last night. The main reason for us going down the pub isn't to get 'pissed',it's to meet folk and talk about this and that,even if it's just tittle tattle. One of the group is a single bloke who fixes roofs for a living. He says he can go all day without talking to anyone,until he goes down the pub for a few pints.

It was bad enough in the spring and summer when the pubs were closed,but the thought of being under a 10pm curfew,or even worse no pubs and a curfew during the dark nights is frightening!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lockdown-TWO-WEEKS-unless-Rule-Six-works.html


----------



## johnblack (16 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> It looks like us single/living alone people are going to be hit hard....again!! Never mind all this 'we can't hug our grandchildren,because of the rule of 6' blah blah. People living alone need social interaction! A few of us were discussing this down the pub last night. The main reason for us going down the pub isn't to get 'pissed',it's to meet folk and talk about this and that,even if it's just tittle tattle. One of the group is a single bloke who fixes roofs for a living. He says he can go all day without talking to anyone,until he goes down the pub for a few pints.
> 
> It was bad enough in the spring and summer when the pubs were closed,but the thought of being under a 10pm curfew,or even worse no pubs and a curfew during the dark nights is frightening!
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lockdown-TWO-WEEKS-unless-Rule-Six-works.html


I've seen it mentioned on here time again, the sneering way that the mention of pubs includes "getting drunk", this is not why most people go and says far more about the perceptions of those puritans than the many people that just enjoy a pint, some company and a bit of a laugh. God knows we need it.


----------



## Accy cyclist (16 Sep 2020)

johnblack said:


> I've seen it mentioned on here time again, the sneering way that the mention of pubs includes "getting drunk", this is not why most people go and says far more about the perceptions of those puritans than the many people that just enjoy a pint, some company and a bit of a laugh. God knows we need it.


Exactly!! i was down my local last night for 2 hours. In those 2 hours i spoke more words than i'd said all day. That wasn't hard as i hadn't spoken to anyone all day,apart from the woman in the test centre queue. In those 2 hours i had 2 halves of bitter. One i bought,the other was bought for me by a bloke i give a lift home to. Just because 'the young' aren't social distancing in pubs,that doesn't mean us older ones should suffer another totally depressing lockdown of our social lives! So let me see...my 60th birthday is due in November. If the pubs are closed how the f..k can i celebrate/commemorate it! I can't even go to the local gym i'm a member of as they show no signs of re-opening! Don't phone the 'Crisis' helpline either if you feel suicidal! It gives false hope! I once phoned,thinking they'd send somebody out straight away,like you'd expect if you called the emergency services. No,i was met with umpteen stupid questions by some hippy social worker sounding type who seemed doped up! I had to keep repeating my answers to him,then eventually he said something like "Ok,let's see,i can make an appointment for a week on Tuesday". Yes,if you're feeling suicidal folks they can come and save you,but you'll have to wait 11 days like i did!!


----------



## Rusty Nails (16 Sep 2020)

johnblack said:


> I've seen it mentioned on here time again, the sneering way that the mention of pubs includes "getting drunk", this is not why most people go and says far more about the perceptions of those puritans than the many people that just enjoy a pint, some company and a bit of a laugh. God knows we need it.



My son is partially sighted, lives alone in his flat, and has worked from home for the whole of the lockdown. I pop over to see him a couple of times a week just to give him some company, which I couldn't even do in the earlier lockdown days.

He likes a beer or two, and if it wasn't for his local (a Wetherspoons) where he knows a couple of other regulars he would just drink alone at home with no company. That in itself can lead to other problems.

Yes, drinking to excess does reduce inhibitions and make social distancing less likely, but that is not the way most people drink in pubs.


----------



## matticus (16 Sep 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> My son is partially sighted, lives alone in his flat, and has worked from home for the whole of the lockdown. I pop over to see him a couple of times a week just to give him some company, which I couldn't even do in the earlier lockdown days.
> 
> He likes a beer or two, and if it wasn't for his local (a Wetherspoons) where he knows a couple of other regulars he would just drink alone at home with no company. That in itself can lead to other problems.
> 
> Yes, drinking to excess does reduce inhibitions and make social distancing less likely, but that is not the way most people drink in pubs.


The photos that papers love to publish aren't small groups of moderate drinkers, socially distanced.


----------



## fossyant (17 Sep 2020)

The halls next to the building I work in have been featured in the Manchester Evening News - student's partying in the 'gardens' - over 100 ! Security are now stepping up patrols. Staff now not overly happy due to risks of bringing the virus in. To top if off, more students in our building now reporting symptoms. Staff now worried we will run out of staff to teach !


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> The halls next to the building I work in have been featured in the Manchester Evening News - student's partying in the 'gardens' - over 100 ! Security are now stepping up patrols. Staff now not overly happy due to risks of bringing the virus in. To top if off, more students in our building now reporting symptoms. Staff now worried we will run out of staff to teach !


And these are the "Caring and responsible younger generation" who are going to make the world a better place than us old duffers have managed.

"_Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"_


----------



## marinyork (17 Sep 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> And these are the "Caring and responsible younger generation" who are going to make the world a better place than us old duffers have managed.
> 
> "_Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"_



Like a group of 43 closely-packed elderly walkers?

The more detailed figures presented last week suggested gigantic spikes in 17 to 18 and 19 to 21 year olds. It's now shifting to older groups.

It depends on your opinion. My uni has got shared study spaces with basically random people, planned. Some would say that's come about with a lot of focus on halls.


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Sep 2020)

marinyork said:


> It depends on your opinion. My uni has got shared study spaces with basically random people, planned. Some would say that's come about with a lot of focus on halls.


Your Uni has, so do Bingo halls. But it's the people who use those places and ignore the rules who are the problem, and the young are no different to any other age group in that respect.

Which was my point.


----------



## Julia9054 (19 Sep 2020)

I went to my first brass band rehearsal last night. Brass Bands England in negotiation with the DDCMS have allowed rehearsals to start up again for bands with an appropriate risk assessment. Our organisation in conjunction with the company that sponsors us who own our rehearsal premises have decided that our room fits 12 people + conductor socially distanced (instead of the usual 27). It was fantastic to be back playing although we sounded a little rusty! Mixed feelings though as we will not be performing any time soon.


----------



## Rusty Nails (19 Sep 2020)

On a personal level I am probably less worried about the risk factors to me of Covid than on the issues a new wave will cause to other NHS treatments.

My doctor, ten days ago, sent an urgent request to the hospital for me to have further tests for possible prostate cancer following some problems I've been having and a high PSA test result. I have just had a letter from the hospital telling me that they will give me a telephone consultation in three weeks time. I am not sure what I can tell the consultant that he has not been told in the letter from my GP and a glance at my medical records. Not what I was hoping for, and I just have a bad feeling that cases like mine will once again be given a lower priority.

My wife fell and broke her collar bone four weeks ago. It was x-rayed and she was given a sling, very few instructions and sent home. A follow-up x-ray five days ago showed it was healing OK and she was discharged. She was given no instruction about how long she should wear the sling and has been told that she should hear from a physio some time about rehab, but that it will again be a telephone call, not face to face instruction.

Yes, the NHS coped with the initial outbreak, and probably will in this wave, but at what long term cost in lives lost to other illnesses. They have only coped by offering a much worse service in other areas, and that looks to continue.


----------



## Moon bunny (19 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I went to my first brass band rehearsal last night. Brass Bands England in negotiation with the DDCMS have allowed rehearsals to start up again for bands with an appropriate risk assessment. Our organisation in conjunction with the company that sponsors us who own our rehearsal premises have decided that our room fits 12 people + conductor socially distanced (instead of the usual 27). It was fantastic to be back playing although we sounded a little rusty! Mixed feelings though as we will not be performing any time soon.


Shouldn’t be rusty if it’s a brass band. Perhaps a touch of verdigris.


----------



## winjim (19 Sep 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> Shouldn’t be rusty if it’s a brass band. Perhaps a touch of verdigris.



View: https://youtu.be/dqPxDYdbgoc


----------



## Julia9054 (19 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> View: https://youtu.be/dqPxDYdbgoc



Younger son plays trombone. My eldest used to shout “Mum!!! He’s not practicing, he’s just making slidey noises!“


----------



## winjim (19 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Younger son plays trombone. My eldest used to shout “Mum!!! He’s not practicing, he’s just making slidey noises!“


That reminds me, I haven't heard our neighbour in a while. Maybe they decided that trombone wasn't for them.


----------



## Julia9054 (19 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> That reminds me, I haven't heard our neighbour in a while. Maybe they decided that trombone wasn't for them.


Sadly (for them anyway) one of the consequences of the sh!tshow that is 2020. Motivation to practice goes out the window when you cannot play with others, have lessons face to face or perform


----------



## srw (19 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Motivation to practice goes out the window when you cannot play with others, have lessons face to face or perform


Curiously I've found the exact opposite. I usually just sight-read, which means my technique has got ropey. This year I've learnt new repertoire. Some of it I will perform or have recorded as a contribution to a publicly shared thing, other pieces I'll never play except for myself.


----------



## Unkraut (19 Sep 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I went to my first brass band rehearsal last night.


I'm still putting off the moment of truth. Having given up mid-March, I'm sure the valves are suffering from acute lockdown!


----------



## marinyork (20 Sep 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Your Uni has, so do Bingo halls. But it's the people who use those places and ignore the rules who are the problem, and the young are no different to any other age group in that respect.
> 
> Which was my point.



Modern study spaces in unis are not so much study spaces as socialising spaces for a sizeable minority. Basically you could get the same kind of behaviours in halls in the study spaces and a terrifying level of mixing. On paper it all looks very sensible. Some at uni are baffled because if you look at the numbers, it is mindboggling.


----------



## winjim (20 Sep 2020)

Improvement in swab test TAT this week as I got my result at seven o'clock this morning...


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Sep 2020)

Bog roll and kitchen towel flying off the shelves once again! And i bet they haven't used up the last hoarded amount yet!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (22 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Bog roll and kitchen towel flying off the shelves once again! And i bet they haven't used up the last hoarded amount yet!
> View attachment 548524



Other than noting that these [redacted] [redacted] are [redacted] and should [redacted], its probably also worth noting that posting such only increases the overall sense of panic and makes it more likely that other [redacted] [redacted] will follow suit. 

Anyway.

Up With Good Old British Common Sense!

The Blitz Spirit (TM) will get us through this!


----------



## kingrollo (22 Sep 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> And these are the "Caring and responsible younger generation" who are going to make the world a better place than us old duffers have managed.
> 
> "_Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"_



Think the youngsters are an easy target - lets not forget Partying, going out, catching the odd snog (and maybe more !) - is the default lifestyle for a lot youngsters.

We don't hear anything about the OAP with her mask round her chin - who feels the need to tell every cashier about her grankids, and her pet poodle.


----------



## vickster (22 Sep 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Think the youngsters are an easy target - lets not forget Partying, going out, catching the odd snog (and maybe more !) - is the default lifestyle for a lot youngsters.
> 
> We don't hear anything about the OAP with her mask round her chin - who feels the need to tell every cashier about her grankids, and her pet poodle.


Except aren't the infection stats showing that levels are highest amongst the under 30s? Most cashiers are standing behind screens in shops and won't be a less than a metre away in most instances


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Other than noting that these [redacted] [redacted] are [redacted] and should [redacted], its probably also worth noting that posting such only increases the overall sense of panic and makes it more likely that other [redacted] [redacted] will follow suit.
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> ...




"C'mon folks,let's get to Tesco asap,as i've just seen a picture of fellow sheep buying up all the bog roll again,so we must follow suite!! Hey Dolly.....don't forget your mask(muzzle) this time"!! 🐑


----------



## kingrollo (22 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> Except aren't the infection stats showing that levels are highest amongst the under 30s? Most cashiers are standing behind screens in shops and won't be a less than a metre away in most instances



Undoubtedly yes - but IMO the young are being hit hardest in terms of impact. They can't do what they usually enjoy doing - reports have shown they are the ones most likely to lose jobs etc.


----------



## classic33 (22 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> "C'mon folks,let's get to Tesco asap,as i've just seen a picture of fellow sheep buying up all the bog roll again,so we must follow suite!! Hey Dolly.....don't forget your mask(muzzle) this time"!! 🐑
> 
> 
> View attachment 548527


Some are, some just can't be bothered


----------



## Accy cyclist (22 Sep 2020)

Did i hear right,that pubs and restaurants will be forced to close at 10pm for 6 long months?!🤔


----------



## DCLane (22 Sep 2020)

Accy cyclist said:


> Did i hear right,that pubs and restaurants will be forced to close at 10pm for 6 long months?!🤔



No 

At 10pm each day!

I'm guessing a lot of police time is being taken up by pubs/clubs after 10pm which is likely to be deployed at stopping late-night gatherings?


----------



## Smokin Joe (22 Sep 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Think the youngsters are an easy target - lets not forget Partying, going out, catching the odd snog (and maybe more !) - is the default lifestyle for a lot youngsters.
> 
> We don't hear anything about the OAP with her mask round her chin - who feels the need to tell every cashier about her grankids, and her pet poodle.


We do hear plenty about the older generation - how we've destroyed the planet, bankrupted the country, made house prices unaffordable etc etc. But the whining younger generation are just the same, they act in their own best interests taking advantage of the situation at the time - just as ever generation before have done, and all those that follow will too.


----------



## kingrollo (22 Sep 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> We do hear plenty about the older generation - how we've destroyed the planet, bankrupted the country, made house prices unaffordable etc etc. But the whining younger generation are just the same, they act in their own best interests taking advantage of the situation at the time - just as ever generation before have done, and all those that follow will too.



Agreed. 
But bashing OAP'S seems very taboo. 
Ive got 2 sons in there 20's - I fear for them trying to make there way in a world where no one gives an inch. But I guess my parents thought the same about me Job hunting in 1980 !


----------



## kingrollo (22 Sep 2020)

DCLane said:


> No
> 
> At 10pm each day!
> 
> I'm guessing a lot of police time is being taken up by pubs/clubs after 10pm which is likely to be deployed at stopping late-night gatherings?



I genuinely think the idea is that the pubs are more or less empty - without giving a closure order.
Expecting social distancing to be adhered to in pubs was always doomed to fail IMO.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (22 Sep 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> the whining younger generation



<rant>

In my experience it's the older generation doing the whinging. 

Whereas given the unprecedented transfer of wealth to the older generation from youth over the last couple of decades, they should be damn grateful the younger generation aren't rioting, let alone whinging. 

And then there's Brexit, voted for by the retired oldies smug in their prejudice and triple lock pensions, inflicted on working youth who have to pay for the debacle. 

</rant>

[of course intergenerational conflict isn't going to solve anything, but whinging about the younger generation really does get my goat]


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## Rusty Nails (22 Sep 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Think the youngsters are an easy target - lets not forget Partying, going out, catching the odd snog (and maybe more !) - is the default lifestyle for a lot youngsters.
> 
> We don't hear anything about the OAP with her mask round her chin - who feels the need to tell every cashier about her grankids, and her pet poodle.



Just goes to show the generalised crap that is said both about the younger generations and the older generations.

The blame for everything lies with people, stupid old people, stupid middle-aged people, and stupid young people. Usually the other ones.


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## Adam4868 (23 Sep 2020)

Daughter off school with cold (hopefully ! ) Don't come back until you've got a negative test.Same for my partner who teaches.Ring up for test as no home kits available.So were off to Blackburn this afternoon for us all to get tested.Nearest we could get.
Meanwhile more worryingly is my Dad 83 is really not well with a temp,loss of appetite,lethargy..no test available here in Blackpool.Not really well enough to get him there.
I seriously can't believe after all this time,the testing procedure is so sh1t !


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## Rusty Nails (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Daughter off school with cold (hopefully ! ) Don't come back until you've got a negative test.Same for my partner who teaches.Ring up for test as no home kits available.So were off to Blackburn this afternoon for us all to get tested.Nearest we could get.
> Meanwhile more worryingly is my Dad 83 is really not well with a temp,loss of appetite,lethargy..no test available here in Blackpool.Not really well enough to get him there.
> I seriously can't believe after all this time,the testing procedure is so sh1t !



It can't be sh1t, it's being run by well-organised, efficient private companies.


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## Adam4868 (23 Sep 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> It can't be sh1t, it's being run by well-organised, efficient privatise companies.


Mmm a bit like everytime Johnson says NHS track and trace...when the reality is it's being outsourced to the likes of Serco,Deloitte.A lie in itself.


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## DCLane (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Daughter off school with cold (hopefully ! ) Don't come back until you've got a negative test.Same for my partner who teaches.Ring up for test as no home kits available.So were off to Blackburn this afternoon for us all to get tested.Nearest we could get.
> Meanwhile more worryingly is my Dad 83 is really not well with a temp,loss of appetite,lethargy..no test available here in Blackpool.Not really well enough to get him there.
> I seriously can't believe after all this time,the testing procedure is so sh1t !



I've been in Knowsley the past 3 weekends at the velodrome there. The testing centre's in the car park - I don't think they've ever been busy so there must be some space locally.


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## Julia9054 (23 Sep 2020)

Tried to book a flu jab today. Unable to get one for a month.


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## Adam4868 (23 Sep 2020)

We've got spaces in Blackburn.Ambulance just took my dad to hospital in ,low oxygen levels and got him on anti biotics of some sort.Hes just phoned me swearing at me so that's a good sign ! Looking likely he may have it though.Fingers crossed.


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## kingrollo (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> We've got spaces in Blackburn.Ambulance just took my dad to hospital in ,low oxygen levels and got him on anti biotics of some sort.Hes just phoned me swearing at me so that's a good sign ! Looking likely he may have it though.Fingers crossed.


Reminds me of my nan - no matter what she drank a bottle of mackeson stout each day - when finally she got so ill at 90 - she declined a bottle - she died about a week after that !!!!

so your dad swearing is indeed a good sign - best wishes to him......


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## Rusty Nails (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> We've got spaces in Blackburn.Ambulance just took my dad to hospital in ,low oxygen levels and got him on anti biotics of some sort.Hes just phoned me swearing at me so that's a good sign ! Looking likely he may have it though.Fingers crossed.



I always knew my father was not ill when he argued with and swore at me. I worried when he was calm.

Good luck with your dad.


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## winjim (23 Sep 2020)

Time for a booster...


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## marinyork (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> We've got spaces in Blackburn.Ambulance just took my dad to hospital in ,low oxygen levels and got him on anti biotics of some sort.Hes just phoned me swearing at me so that's a good sign ! Looking likely he may have it though.Fingers crossed.



Hope otherwise. My father has low oxygen and infections multiple times per year. Six times not the virus in his case. May be the case for your father.


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## Skibird (23 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Daughter off school with cold (hopefully ! ) Don't come back until you've got a negative test.Same for my partner who teaches.Ring up for test as no home kits available.So were off to Blackburn this afternoon for us all to get tested.Nearest we could get.
> Meanwhile more worryingly is my Dad 83 is really not well with a temp,loss of appetite,lethargy..no test available here in Blackpool.Not really well enough to get him there.
> I seriously can't believe after all this time,the testing procedure is so sh1t !


I don't know if it's true, but someone on another site, said you could book a test 'anywhere' but turn up at your local testing station. It's the actual booking of your test somewhere that needs to be done.


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## Adam4868 (23 Sep 2020)

Went to get our tests in Blackburn,which was pretty quick when we got there.So couple of days we should get our results.
As for my Dad not so good,he has covid,he's phoned me in good enough spirits.On oxygen so I'm guessing it's a case of fingers crossed.Mum has to self isolate for 10 days and obviously no visitors.Harder than I thought not being able to visit him ! I have a massive amount of guilt after speaking with him this morning ☹️


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## kingrollo (24 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Went to get our tests in Blackburn,which was pretty quick when we got there.So couple of days we should get our results.
> As for my Dad not so good,he has covid,he's phoned me in good enough spirits.On oxygen so I'm guessing it's a case of fingers crossed.Mum has to self isolate for 10 days and obviously no visitors.Harder than I thought not being able to visit him ! I have a massive amount of guilt after speaking with him this morning ☹


Fingers crossed. Don't feel guilty - you didn't create covid.


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## Accy cyclist (24 Sep 2020)

I notice the Chancellor wearing 'skinny' trousers! Those trousers are far too informal for someone in his position to wear! He should be wearing 'fitted/slim' pants if he wants to look less 'stuffy',not pants you'd go for a pizza and half a lager in!


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Sep 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> whinging about the younger generation really does get my goat]



Spot the hypocrisy here anyone? You've just had a first class rant at the older generation, then you have the nerve to complain about anyone that whinges about the youngsters. Pot, kettle, black.....


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## stowie (24 Sep 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Daughter off school with cold (hopefully ! ) Don't come back until you've got a negative test.Same for my partner who teaches.Ring up for test as no home kits available.So were off to Blackburn this afternoon for us all to get tested.Nearest we could get.
> Meanwhile more worryingly is my Dad 83 is really not well with a temp,loss of appetite,lethargy..no test available here in Blackpool.Not really well enough to get him there.
> I seriously can't believe after all this time,the testing procedure is so sh1t !



My daughter had the same - she had to get a COVID test before being re-admitted. Negative for her and the results came back quickly - next day about midday or so.

Not sure how widespread this is, but several people I know booked up the "nearest" test centre on the web site (one was Aberdeen for London) but simply went to the local test centre a mile or two away and used the QR code with no questions asked. Apparently the QR code will be accepted for any test location. Again, I wouldn't swear this will work, but it might help in the case of your Dad where distance is an issue. Hope he gets well soon.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Sep 2020)

Skibird said:


> I don't know if it's true, but someone on another site, said you could book a test 'anywhere' but turn up at your local testing station. It's the actual booking of your test somewhere that needs to be done.



It was in the paper about a week ago and Aberdeen mentioned


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## Adam4868 (24 Sep 2020)

stowie said:


> My daughter had the same - she had to get a COVID test before being re-admitted. Negative for her and the results came back quickly - next day about midday or so.
> 
> Not sure how widespread this is, but several people I know booked up the "nearest" test centre on the web site (one was Aberdeen for London) but simply went to the local test centre a mile or two away and used the QR code with no questions asked. Apparently the QR code will be accepted for any test location. Again, I wouldn't swear this will work, but it might help in the case of your Dad where distance is an issue. Hope he gets well soon.


Thanks we went yesterday Myself,partner and two kids.So waiting on results.Only a hour away so no too much of a hardship.
My dad i rang the emergency no for,ambulance came right away and he's in hospital now.He has Covid but doing ok as far as I can gather,oxygen levels were low and one of his lungs wasn't right.He seems to be ok in himself and phones me regularly so I'm being positive he'll get over it.


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## Flick of the Elbow (25 Sep 2020)

Numbers shooting up here and a big part of this are the students, over 100 positive here in Lothian and many more in Glasgow. I’m feeling thoroughly vindicated in my decision to defer my membership of my university-attached gym.
Hoping the authorities are successful in confining students to their halls so they don’t infect the wider community.


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## Low Gear Guy (25 Sep 2020)

If students are to be confined to halls of residence then there should be a general limit on movement. In my experience nobbers are available in all age categories.

Part of the problem is that the government publishes restrictions and then decides on a large number of exemptions for their favoured activities.


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## marinyork (25 Sep 2020)

It's very high density housing.

The authorities need to be more proactive. Around the world whether it be America or Australia time again they leave people to it and moan when these large outbreaks happen and the help comes a week after it's all over the news.

Members of sage and independent sage have said about diverting testing capacity to unis. By December the government are once again claiming large increases in capacity. On the other thread people were saying about students going home for christmas. During the restrictions in march to may many students at my uni breached rules and went home, often enabled by parents. It's not a realistic plan saying no, there needs to be more thought for this time round.

I've not joined a gym either. Can't see the point of ramping up the emotions and using language like 'vindicated' though.


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## DCLane (25 Sep 2020)

marinyork said:


> I've not joined a gym either. Can't see the point of ramping up the emotions and using language like 'vindicated' though.



Son no. 2's using the local council leisure centre gym, partly because he's 16 (he went to their 'teen gym' for 13-15 y.o.'s) and also because it's being kept very clean with strict monitoring.


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## Adam4868 (25 Sep 2020)

Got results back today which shows myself,partner and kids all negative.Just as daughters school has someone testing positive so all year sent home.
Dad still in the hospital here,rings me up on a regular basis with orders which is a good sign.His breathing is bad enough,but he's in good spirits.Touch wood he'll be fine and pull through it ! 
Blackpool is going back into lockdown of some sort I've just read.Infections are rising.


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## fossyant (25 Sep 2020)

Bank into 'no other household rules' like rest of GM. Bah. Good job we fixed up a friends garden the other week. Looks like the nursing home visits will be off again.


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## tyred (25 Sep 2020)

Back into local lockdown from midnight although the restrictions are nowhere near as tight as last time.


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## classic33 (25 Sep 2020)

tyred said:


> Back into local lockdown from midnight although the restrictions are nowhere near as tight as last time.


Curious as to how those restrictions, South of the Border differ to those North of it.


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## tyred (25 Sep 2020)

classic33 said:


> Curious as to how those restrictions, South of the Border differ to those North of it.


I think the government are just window dressing. We aren't supposed to leave the county but people from NI are free to come here. Pubs are still open, just with more restrictions. They reduced the numbers allowed at funerals and things. I'd like to think I'm wrong but I can't see this making a huge amount of difference. It will need at least two weeks to really see. I can't help thinking if people were actually adhering to the current guidelines numbers would not have increased at such a rate.


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## classic33 (25 Sep 2020)

tyred said:


> I think the government are just window dressing. We aren't supposed to leave the county but people from NI are free to come here. Pubs are still open, just with more restrictions. They reduced the numbers allowed at funerals and things. I'd like to think I'm wrong but I can't see this making a huge amount of difference. It will need at least two weeks to really see. I can't help thinking if people were actually adhering to the current guidelines numbers would not have increased at such a rate.


Seem to be much the same this time round then.


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## Flick of the Elbow (26 Sep 2020)

It’s clear that the decision to instruct students back to universities has been catastrophic. They can’t allow the students to return home now but locking them up in close confinement with lots of positive cases isn’t tenable either. A rock and a hard place. What a mess.


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## MrGrumpy (26 Sep 2020)

Or maybe it was part of a plan ? Do you honestly think they had no idea this was going to be the outcome? I think this was the plan all along for students in halls. Quarantine the lot of them once they got an out break. Keep them there rather than mixing with families and other households .


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## nickyboy (26 Sep 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Or maybe it was part of a plan ? Do you honestly think they had no idea this was going to be the outcome? I think this was the plan all along for students in halls. Quarantine the lot of them once they got an out break. Keep them there rather than mixing with families and other households .


Dunno about that. I suspect the thinking went along the lines of "If we don't get the Freshers into halls then, with online learning only we are going to potentially lose the accomodation income"
I suspect they will just let it rip through. The issue is how to manage the return to families in mid December


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## kynikos (26 Sep 2020)

Back into local measures here. So pretty much a return to where we were six months ago; utterly predictable and demonstrably a failure of leadership and forward planning. 

Hospital cases rising so it seems the 'you need to see a cardiologist within two weeks' recommendation from my A&E admission in February and still unfulfilled won't be happening any time soon.

To quote my (Tory) MP, caught in an unguarded moment, 'We're f****d'.


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## stowie (26 Sep 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Dunno about that. I suspect the thinking went along the lines of "If we don't get the Freshers into halls then, with online learning only we are going to potentially lose the accomodation income"
> I suspect they will just let it rip through. The issue is how to manage the return to families in mid December



With online learning only, students may start to wonder why they are paying such a lot of money for their tuition.


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## tom73 (26 Sep 2020)

stowie said:


> With online learning only, students may start to wonder why they are paying such a lot of money for their tuition.


Equally some may start to wonder why they got told to move in when much of the learning is on line away.


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## lane (26 Sep 2020)

As my son says - Netflix streaming service £5.99 a month - university streaming service £9,000 a year. I think they already do wonder.....


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## fossyant (26 Sep 2020)

It's ripped through two halls at my Uni. I'm glad we've been asked to carry on working from home, as my building is smack in the middle of all the buggy students.


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## stowie (26 Sep 2020)

lane said:


> As my son says - Netflix streaming service £5.99 a month - university streaming service £9,000 a year. I think they already do wonder.....



I wonder if the introduction of tuition fees have fundamentally changed the way students view university. Perception of a service can differ between one paid for directly and one paid for indirectly. Plus the UK universities don't seem to have been particularly swift on the adoption of online services to reach larger audiences. The US universities seem to have embraced this far more. Possibly where UK universities viewed a threat, those US universities saw an opportunity to reach (and possibly market / sell services) to a much wider audience.

I understand the big differences between online and direct teaching methods. But online qualifications are becoming more accepted in certain industries - will COVID accelerate this acceptance of online education as a serious and valid way of expanding education?


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## tom73 (26 Sep 2020)

stowie said:


> I wonder if the introduction of tuition fees have fundamentally changed the way students view university. Perception of a service can differ between one paid for directly and one paid for indirectly. Plus the UK universities don't seem to have been particularly swift on the adoption of online services to reach larger audiences. The US universities seem to have embraced this far more. Possibly where UK universities viewed a threat, those US universities saw an opportunity to reach (and possibly market / sell services) to a much wider audience.
> 
> I understand the big differences between online and direct teaching methods. But online qualifications are becoming more accepted in certain industries - will COVID accelerate this acceptance of online education as a serious and valid way of expanding education?


More to do with outdated academic snobbery around it. Distance learning is nothing new the UK leads the world and has done for just over 50 years via the Open University teaching maybe a bit different but the academic standards are not in fact they are higher in some areas. 
Never had an issue with my OU degree being questioned and god help anyone who tried. I along with the other 2M other alumni will tell anyone who did just what they can do.


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## lane (26 Sep 2020)

My son has just started his A Levels this term. He has had blended teaching for the first couple of weeks partly in class and partly on line. He said the online lessons are just as good.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Sep 2020)

Edinburgh figures are through the roof now, a seven day rate of 84 per 100,000 and still rising. But it’s impossible to know how much of this is representative of the community at large and how much is students, hopefully confined in their halls. The figures are meaningless without this distinction.


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## oldwheels (30 Sep 2020)

tom73 said:


> More to do with outdated academic snobbery around it. Distance learning is nothing new the UK leads the world and has done for just over 50 years via the Open University teaching maybe a bit different but the academic standards are not in fact they are higher in some areas.
> Never had an issue with my OU degree being questioned and god help anyone who tried. I along with the other 2M other alumni will tell anyone who did just what they can do.


One of my sons did an OU degree. It took quite a lot of perseverance when combined with work and 2 small children. He got there in the end tho'.


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## fossyant (30 Sep 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Edinburgh figures are through the roof now, a seven day rate of 84 per 100,000 and still rising. But it’s impossible to know how much of this is representative of the community at large and how much is students, hopefully confined in their halls. The figures are meaningless without this distinction.


Manchester has ripped through 234 per 100,000 - it's the students.


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## tom73 (30 Sep 2020)

oldwheels said:


> One of my sons did an OU degree. It took quite a lot of perseverance when combined with work and 2 small children. He got there in the end tho'.


Tell me about it  both me and Mrs 73 are graduates at one point I was doing it together with my teaching one. I must have been mad at the time Mrs73 waited 7 years to graduate so we could have a joint one. We are both now onto our masters. Good on him it’s hard work but bet he learned more about himself along the way for going it.


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## winjim (30 Sep 2020)

tom73 said:


> Tell me about it  both me and Mrs 73 are graduates at one point I was doing it together with my teaching one. I must have been mad at the time Mrs73 waited 7 years to graduate so we could have a joint one. We are both now onto our masters. Good on him it’s hard work but bet he learned more about himself along the way for going it.


Unfortunately the OU got walloped by the fees, same as all the universities, which meant they had to fundamentally alter the structure of their degrees. No longer can you just dip your toe in here and there, but rather you have to sign up for a full named degree before you start. It seems it's less of an option for busy housewives and the like as it used to be, and more of an alternative to higher fee charging traditional universities, which I think is a shame.

winjim Cert Math (Open), BSc(Hons) Molec Sci (Open)


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## tom73 (30 Sep 2020)

winjim said:


> Unfortunately the OU got walloped by the fees, same as all the universities, which meant they had to fundamentally alter the structure of their degrees. No longer can you just dip your toe in here and there, but rather you have to sign up for a full named degree before you start. It seems it's less of an option for busy housewives and the like as it used to be, and more of an alternative to higher fee charging traditional universities, which I think is a shame.
> 
> winjim Cert Math (Open), BSc(Hons) Molec Sci (Open)


Sadly yes it’s ironic that maggie saved it from the chop in the 70’s and years later a conservative government did all it could to kill it off. The pathways are less flexible but you can still move around a bit on the right ones They have been active in finding other ways for learning they are now pioneering in work based apprenticeships.


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## Andy in Germany (30 Sep 2020)

tom73 said:


> Sadly yes it’s ironic that maggie saved it from the chop in the 70’s and years later a conservative government did all it could to kill it off. The pathways are less flexible but you can still move around a bit on the right ones They have been active in finding other ways for learning they are now pioneering in work based apprenticeships.



There even used to be an OU Germany: one of my tutors taught business there. OU closed it several years ago because it was "too complicated" to pay the German staff and deal with local employment legislation. Ironically it earned more than OU UK because Germany students paid full fees.


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## Adam4868 (2 Oct 2020)

On a more positive note if there is one.My dad is coming out of hospital tonight.When they can get a ambulance to bring him home.10/11 days and he's over the worst of it I hope ! It was all about getting his oxygen levels stable,without a mask on.In his 80s and not in the best of health I feared that was it.Touch wood and thanks to the NHS staff,who let me take stuff to him twice a day (newspapers and food orders ! ) Looks like hes on the mend.Plenty of relaxation and orders for my mum then.


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## Adam4868 (2 Oct 2020)

Daughter went back to school at the start of last week after negative test.Lasted two days until had the message the whole of year 11 are of until the 12th October.Two positive pupils in her year.


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## cookiemonster (8 Oct 2020)

Looks like it's beginning to pick up here in Hong Kong again. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...hong-kong-covid-19-transmission-rate-climbing


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## fossyant (8 Oct 2020)

Looks like the North of England is going into further restrictions from next week. Pubs and restaurant's shutting. I'd really like to see the infection rates and where this is happening. I've not been to a pub in my area other than once for a 'lunch' sat outside. So many folk going to be out of work.


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## marinyork (8 Oct 2020)

The seven day infection rates that ran till the start of this week are bad. Sheffield is now higher than Leeds. Many areas very high. I wonder what the intra household restrictions will be.


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## tom73 (8 Oct 2020)

That's the question some sort of intra household restrictions are going to have come into play as part of any "new plan".
It's been said enough times and early on that households are high risk.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Oct 2020)

Mask usage is now accepted on all public transport: on three trains between Freiburg and Stuttgart only one middle aged lady was without a mask. She was also complaining that people wouldn't squeeze into a lift all at once so she had to wait longer.

On the metro in Stuttgart the trams security were checking that everyone was wearing a mask and gave clear instructions if people were not wearing them correctly.


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## marinyork (8 Oct 2020)

tom73 said:


> That's the question some sort of intra household restrictions are going to have come into play as part of any "new plan".
> It's been said enough times and early on that households are high risk.








This was an interesting graphic in the daily mail, not sure where it came from but guessing PHE.


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## kingrollo (8 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> View attachment 551185
> 
> This was an interesting graphic in the daily mail, not sure where it came from but guessing PHE.



Family and friend gathering ? - that covers almost everything doesn't it ?


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## marinyork (8 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Family and friend gathering ? - that covers almost everything doesn't it ?



Wouldn't know, who does that these days?

I took it to means house/garden/other gathering basically.


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## kingrollo (8 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> Wouldn't know, who does that these days?
> 
> I took it to means house/garden/other gathering basically.



Well I live with my wife ! - pre lockdown, I would cycle with friends, and go out with friends !


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## gavroche (8 Oct 2020)

I had a phone call from my Renault dealer this morning to tell me they have to re-book my car which was due for a service next Monday. Three of their mechanics, sorry techniciens, have gone down with the virus so they have to close the workshop and have it sanetised before they can re-open. My car is now booked for the end of the month.


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## DCLane (8 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Looks like the North of England is going into further restrictions from next week. Pubs and restaurant's shutting. I'd really like to see the infection rates and where this is happening. I've not been to a pub in my area other than once for a 'lunch' sat outside. So many folk going to be out of work.



The local rates can be found here: https://phe.maps.arcgis.com/apps/we...-IVwMbqnpUGUheHnlspDDuAg_WFxtz9Y3_MNV9DlzmDsk

Appears to be updated 4pm each day.


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## tom73 (8 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> View attachment 551185
> 
> This was an interesting graphic in the daily mail, not sure where it came from but guessing PHE.


Maybe it is just have to be carful of unreferenced figures pretty cramp reporting but it's the DM they look to have a pushing a let it rip agenda.


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## tom73 (8 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> The local rates can be found here: https://phe.maps.arcgis.com/apps/we...-IVwMbqnpUGUheHnlspDDuAg_WFxtz9Y3_MNV9DlzmDsk
> 
> Appears to be updated 4pm each day.


They normally say when they are updated it starts around 4pm takes about 15mins.


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## Rusty Nails (8 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> View attachment 551185
> 
> This was an interesting graphic in the daily mail, not sure where it came from but guessing PHE.



I am not sure exactly what to make of this graph. It is clear that family situations cause the highest number of infections, but then I would imagine almost everyone has some sort of family interaction. The other groups probably have a lot less people involved in them so you would expect the numbers to be lower. I would have thought a more meaningful chart would show the number of infections based as a percentage of people taking part in those activities. Also can an infected person appear in several of the various categories?


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## srw (8 Oct 2020)

I thought it was worth sharing this graph, which illustrates quite how deadly Covid-19 is.







The black line is the number of people killed in the UK by the end of August 2020 by Covid-19. The blue line is the number of people killed in the _whole_ of each year by flu and pneumonia, and the green line the number of people killed by flu and pneumonia each year up to the end of August - so only half of each winter flu/pneumonia season. My best guess is that by the end of this calendar year we'll see Covid-19 being more deadly in the UK than any flu season in the 20th century other than 1918 and possibly 1929.

It's particularly sobering when you realise that the conservative statisticians at ONS have made the Covid-19 stats look lower by only focussing on deaths _caused by_ Covid-19, not _associated with_ Covid-19. So some of this year's flu and pneumonia deaths, and other cuase deaths, will actually be Covid-19 deaths - just not recorded as such.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31august2020


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## Andy in Germany (12 Oct 2020)

Youngest Son had his _Konfirmation _service yesterday, which is an important coming of age step in this part of Germany. Normally this happens in Spring but it was delayed due to the virus. Usually the church is packed for this service, but the pastor made it clear that it was for immediate family only this time, so it was a shorter and more muted service.

The church split the group and held two services, and the families were kept separate so we could stay over 1.5m apart. Masks were mandatory for everyone who wasn't actually saying something at the front and the only singing was from the musicians.

Being German it was also very well organised: there were disinfectant stations by the doors and a team of volunteers came in as the first service ended and disinfected everything that people may have touched. Conversations inside were discouraged but people were free to gather in the courtyard provided they kept their distance.

So far it looks like I can get back to Freiburg later this week to go to work...


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## yo vanilla (13 Oct 2020)

There are seven people at my office (of about 30-35) tested positive over the weekend. I've been working from home nearly always for the last month.


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## C R (13 Oct 2020)

The dad of daughter 2 best friend tested positive, caught at work, so isolating at home, not serious by the looks of it. Rest of the family isolating too.


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## Unkraut (13 Oct 2020)

The middle one had to pop into casualty in Nottingham for a couple of stitches for a cut. Just walked in, and had to hunt for the disinfectant. Met a girl there, first year student, had apparently tried to jump out of the window of her flat. Flatmates both have covid, she was feverish and had lost her sense of smell, yet was allowed for a while into the waiting room.

With this kind of lackadaisical attitude at the medical end I'm not surprised the rate of infections is increasing. Perhaps a bit less micro-managing everyone's lives from the government and more concentration on where the real danger lies would be in order. I was very surprised at this, as was she.


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## Andy in Germany (13 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The middle one had to pop into casualty in Nottingham for a couple of stitches for a cut. Just walked in, and had to hunt for the disinfectant. Met a girl there, first year student, had apparently tried to jump out of the window of her flat. Flatmates both have covid, she was feverish and had lost her sense of smell, yet was allowed for a while into the waiting room.
> 
> With this kind of lackadaisical attitude at the medical end I'm not surprised the rate of infections is increasing. Perhaps a bit less micro-managing everyone's lives from the government and more concentration on where the real danger lies would be in order. I was very surprised at this, as was she.



Oh great, my cousin lives in Nottingham and just tested positive...


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## Unkraut (13 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Oh great, my cousin lives in Nottingham and just tested positive...


I hope he or she will be part of the majority for whom this is not too much of an ordeal.


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## Andy in Germany (14 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The middle one had to pop into casualty in Nottingham for a couple of stitches for a cut. Just walked in, and had to hunt for the disinfectant. Met a girl there, first year student, had apparently tried to jump out of the window of her flat. Flatmates both have covid, she was feverish and had lost her sense of smell, yet was allowed for a while into the waiting room.
> 
> With this kind of lackadaisical attitude at the medical end I'm not surprised the rate of infections is increasing. Perhaps a bit less micro-managing everyone's lives from the government and more concentration on where the real danger lies would be in order. I was very surprised at this, as was she.



I wonder if that's because the crisis has gone on for so long staff in hospitals are just burned out and exhausted: they've managed over six months of high pressure with little support apart from a couple of Thursdays in summer when people gave them a clap. 
I can imagine that things are beginning to slide, not because people don't care or have a poor attitude but because they don't have the energy and the cases seem to be increasing regardless of what they do.


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## Andy in Germany (14 Oct 2020)

Hmm, a new development: our town has declared face masks mandatory on the main shopping streets (as well as public transport and shops/public offices et c). 

Even though Germany as a whole has lower infection rates than many other countries the local rate is a bit higher than average.


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## marinyork (14 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Hmm, a new development: our town has declared face masks mandatory on the main shopping streets (as well as public transport and shops/public offices et c).
> 
> Even though Germany as a whole has lower infection rates than many other countries the local rate is a bit higher than average.



Incremental gains. 

In the UK one of the oxford professors overseeing the vaccine here has done an exclusive with the daily mail saying that distancing and face masks will be here to July even if it works.


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## C R (14 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> Incremental gains.
> 
> In the UK one of the oxford professors overseeing the vaccine here has done an exclusive with the daily mail saying that distancing and face masks will be here to July even if it works.


I don't think anyone that had been paying attention would have been surprised by that statement.


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## fossyant (14 Oct 2020)

MIL in tears again last night. Bed a 'bit flat' - it's a medical grade bed that's 'inflated', but as she sleeps propped up, her 'bottom' sinks into the mattress too far, hitting the base of the bed. Wife phoned home and told them to sort it there and then, which they did, as they weren't answering MIL's call button. Homes must be terribly busy as there isn't relatives popping in to 'assist', never mind staffing shortages.

We have a huge number of very depressed elderly folk who just want to die now - not permitted to see family, unlikely to see anyone at Christmas. The Government need to allow visits that are 'safe'.


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## marinyork (14 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> I don't think anyone that had been paying attention would have been surprised by that statement.



A lot on here charmed into vaccine promises by the media. It will be why these mask policies are here to stay. It's only the last month as the media are aware of timelines that the views of those working on it have been reported more prominently.


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## roubaixtuesday (14 Oct 2020)

Had to cancel a night away at friends we've not seen for a year 'cos we're in tier 2 now. 

Youngest son's whole year group home from school today while they decide with PHE how many will have to self isolate following positive case(s) yesterday. 

Badminton club was to restart next week, now Badminton England waiting govt "clarification" for tier 2 (tier one can go ahead, tier 3 not). I'm pretty sure it will not go ahead. 

Middle son bored witless after uni place deferred following A level fiasco and has signed up for Covid drug trial for something to do.

Talked to my 80yo parents about Christmas yesterday, who live a 2-3 hr drive away. Maybe turkey sandwiches somewhere between us in a park?

All first world problems, of course, but still not great. 

The current rate of infection is just too high to sustain social and economic life I think - the number of teachers, children, health care, social care staff, fire fighters etc ending up in isolation is just not sustainable. Something must give - we simply have to get case numbers going down, not up, or face an absolutely grim winter of death and disruption.


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## roubaixtuesday (14 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Hmm, a new development: our town has declared face masks mandatory on the main shopping streets (as well as public transport and shops/public offices et c).
> 
> Even though Germany as a whole has lower infection rates than many other countries the local rate is a bit higher than average.



I'm desperately hoping Germany can get this 2nd wave under control. To date, you've been a beacon of hope for how a large, developed, interconnected country can keep on top of things.

Right now, from raw figures, you look to be on the same trajectory as UK, just a month behind, as we have been behind France.

The very best of luck.


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## Andy in Germany (14 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> Incremental gains.
> 
> In the UK one of the oxford professors overseeing the vaccine here has done an exclusive with the daily mail saying that distancing and face masks will be here to July even if it works.



I suspect as face mask wearing is generally now accepted here, it is seen as the lesser of two evils when infection rates increase.


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## kingrollo (15 Oct 2020)

Is it me or do we have a series of local lockdowns - where almost everything is open and then much head scratching as the cases surge upwards.

Most of these lockdowns aren't really lockdowns at all.


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## fossyant (15 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Is it me or do we have a series of local lockdowns - where almost everything is open and then much head scratching as the cases surge upwards.
> 
> Most of these lockdowns aren't really lockdowns at all.



Yep. The restriction's haven't worked since July up North as the schools, colleges, uni and work went back. Wonder why.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Is it me or do we have a series of local lockdowns - where almost everything is open and then much head scratching as the cases surge upwards.
> 
> Most of these lockdowns aren't really lockdowns at all.



The difference between the "tiers of the clown" doesn't seem that much. The Govts own advisors don't think they will work. Tier three seems to be a way to make much more sweeping restrictions legal, rather than a restriction in itself.

More of the issue seems to be people flouting current restrictions. The only potential real benefit is that imposing them scares the bejesus out of the populace so we comply better. 

Basically the govt bottled it. Again.


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## kingrollo (15 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Yep. The restriction's haven't worked since July up North as the schools, colleges, uni and work went back. Wonder why.



I think we need stop calling very minor changes "lockdowns".


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## kingrollo (15 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> The difference between the "tiers of the clown" doesn't seem that much. The Govts own advisors don't think they will work. Tier three seems to be a way to make much more sweeping restrictions legal, rather than a restriction in itself.
> 
> More of the issue seems to be people flouting current restrictions. The only potential real benefit is that imposing them scares the bejesus out of the populace so we comply better.
> 
> Basically the govt bottled it. Again.



Regional lockdowns might work if most of the country was low or covid free.

As it is it's pretty much rampant all over the UK - so working on degrees of how rapid it's spreading is a pointless excercise. 

None of the measures will stop a tier 1 progressing to tier 2 and then 3 .

So in a couple of weeks the whole country will be tier 3 - and the tier 3 measures might not slow it.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> None of the measures will stop a tier 1 progressing to tier 2 and then 3 .
> 
> So in a couple of weeks the whole country will be tier 3 - and the tier 3 measures might not slow it.



Nail on the head.


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## lane (15 Oct 2020)

Which is probably why, we have week or so of feverish discussion about what new restrictions Boris is going to bring in, the as soon as he does the agenda moves straight onto what new restrictions Boris is going to bring in..... So we had rules of 6 and then straight after discussion about new tiers or a circuit breaker - and then as soon as the tiers are introduced we are discussing if we will have a circuit breaker. A few weeks ago I predicted a lock down on the 20th November - I think that's still looking the likely date. It may be termed a circuit breaker but once introduced we will stay more or less locked down.


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## DCLane (15 Oct 2020)

The constant dithering then a 'new' change that doesn't mean much difference has created confusion and lethargy unfortunately.

Locally we've gone from 'no visitors at all' since July to 'not inside' tier 2 yesterday. That level of change is daft and will make not a ha'penny difference.


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## kingrollo (15 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> The constant dithering then a 'new' change that doesn't mean much difference has created confusion and lethargy unfortunately.
> 
> Locally we've gone from 'no visitors at all' since July to 'not inside' tier 2 yesterday. That level of change is daft and will make not a ha'penny difference.



A lot of bluster - but only Liverpool has seen a significant change.

What is the difference between tier 1 & 2 ? .......virtually nothing.

In practice tier 1 & 2 are the same.


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## lane (15 Oct 2020)

We are going into tier 2 Saturday. My kids won't be able to meet friends in each other's houses although they obviously can meet all day indoors at school college.


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## C R (15 Oct 2020)

There's been a case at the high school our daughters go to. The school said all close contacts have been told to stay home for two weeks, everyone else to go on as normal.


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## kingrollo (15 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> We are going into tier 2 Saturday. My kids won't be able to meet friends in each other's houses although they obviously can meet all day indoors at school college.


Exactly - I dunno what tier 2 is for ?


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## lane (15 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> There's been a case at the high school our daughters go to. The school said all close contacts have been told to stay home for two weeks, everyone else to go on as normal.



Yes same here - but at schools and college my kids go (plus some others I know) to it seems to be staff that are getting more cases - presumably because the kids don't show symptoms.


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## C R (15 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Yes same here - but at schools and college my kids go (plus some others I know) to it seems to be staff that are getting more cases - presumably because the kids don't show symptoms.


We got the letter this evening, so we don't know what school is actually going to be like tomorrow after the announcement. I would expect that at least the whole bus where the positive case travel will have been asked to stay home.


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## lane (15 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> We got the letter this evening, so we don't know what school is actually going to be like tomorrow after the announcement. I would expect that at least the whole bus where the positive case travel will have been asked to stay home.



What letter?


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## C R (16 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> What letter?


A letter in an email from school explaining that they had a covid positive student and their close contacts had become told to isolate for 14 days.


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## Julia9054 (16 Oct 2020)

Like most schools, where I work had it's first pupil case at the start of the second week of term. The child developed symptoms on the Friday night, had a positive test over the weekend and the parent contacted school first thing Monday morning. The procedure is supposed to be that the school contacts PHE (or whatever they are called now) for specific advice on who counts as a contact and needs to isolate. It took us 24 hours of hanging on phone lines before the school got to speak to anyone so we had to make those decisions on our own
We identified contacts from seating plans and from talking to the child about who they had been with at break and lunch. 45 pupils were sent home. They are all back now and no one else got it but we were let down by a system not fit for purpose despite following all the government advice to the letter. We are supposed to be advised by experts. We were not


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## C R (16 Oct 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Like most schools, where I work had it's first pupil case at the start of the second week of term. The child developed symptoms on the Friday night, had a positive test over the weekend and the parent contacted school first thing Monday morning. The procedure is supposed to be that the school contacts PHE (or whatever they are called now) for specific advice on who counts as a contact and needs to isolate. It took us 24 hours of hanging on phone lines before the school got to speak to anyone so we had to make those decisions on our own
> We identified contacts from seating plans and from talking to the child about who they had been with at break and lunch. 45 pupils were sent home. They are all back now and no one else got it but we were let down by a system not fit for purpose despite following all the government advice to the letter. We are supposed to be advised by experts. We were not


We've been fortunate. We live in a relatively rural catchment, with so far low incidence, and this was the first case in the high school, so far no cases in the primary school our son goes to.


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## marinyork (16 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Is it me or do we have a series of local lockdowns - where almost everything is open and then much head scratching as the cases surge upwards.
> 
> Most of these lockdowns aren't really lockdowns at all.



For the mental health of some of the population I'm not sure why you would call them lockdowns. It's unhelpful. In some cases it's very, very unhelpful.

I agree that there isn't as much difference as is made out. It sounds better to the government than close some stuff early and mix outside and close some stuff and mix outside in fewer specific places.

Just similar thing to March with 'essential' travel. My travel is considddddddeerably more important than youers. And so it's essential.


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> A letter in an email from school explaining that they had a covid positive student and their close contacts had become told to isolate for 14 days.



Yes had quite a few of those over the past two weeks. The college my son goes to just sends one email a week now updating on the number positives (students and staff) for that week!

Nottingham where he goes to college has most cases in the country - but is not in tier 3 because we don't yet have enough feeding through to older people and filling the hospital up. You might think it would be a good idea to do something now to stop that happening but why not wait until it has then do something - this is so fxxxxxx stupid it is beyond belief.


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## marinyork (16 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Which is probably why, we have week or so of feverish discussion about what new restrictions Boris is going to bring in, the as soon as he does the agenda moves straight onto what new restrictions Boris is going to bring in..... So we had rules of 6 and then straight after discussion about new tiers or a circuit breaker - and then as soon as the tiers are introduced we are discussing if we will have a circuit breaker. A few weeks ago I predicted a lock down on the 20th November - I think that's still looking the likely date. It may be termed a circuit breaker but once introduced we will stay more or less locked down.



Rule of six was all right. It's meant that the large numbers of groups that were 10s/12s/18s/30s and some of which were meeting indoors has come down to lots of sixes and fewer groups taking the piss.

The new tiers, big social groups have already worked out that you can meet outside in pub gardens for tier 2. So this is happening without the social distancing (2 metres of 1m+). It's not happening indoors, so that's good, but extended social events with 6 households on a regular basis.


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

To be fair my son won't be able to meet anyone inside - and he sometimes does meet people he does not go to college with so will be some impact possibly. However I don't think many people bother to follow the rules now.


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## lazybloke (16 Oct 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Like most schools, where I work had it's first pupil case at the start of the second week of term. The child developed symptoms on the Friday night, had a positive test over the weekend and the parent contacted school first thing Monday morning. The procedure is supposed to be that the school contacts PHE (or whatever they are called now) for specific advice on who counts as a contact and needs to isolate. It took us 24 hours of hanging on phone lines before the school got to speak to anyone so we had to make those decisions on our own
> We identified contacts from seating plans and from talking to the child about who they had been with at break and lunch. 45 pupils were sent home. They are all back now and no one else got it but we were let down by a system not fit for purpose despite following all the government advice to the letter. We are supposed to be advised by experts. We were not


Our local school seem to have bypassed the PHE or local Health Protection Team involvement (or at least they've failed to explain it) and have sent an entire year group home in response to a single confirmed infection. Then another infection later in the week , and another year group sent home - that's a total of 500 pupils.


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## C R (16 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Our local school seem to have bypassed the PHE or local Health Protection Team involvement (or at least they've failed to explain it) and have sent an entire year group home in response to a single confirmed infection. Then another infection later in the week , and another year group sent home - that's a total of 500 pupils.


Possibly took the belt and braces approach because they had trouble getting help from public health officials, like the case of @Julia9054's school.


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Our local school seem to have bypassed the PHE or local Health Protection Team involvement (or at least they've failed to explain it) and have sent an entire year group home in response to a single confirmed infection. Then another infection later in the week , and another year group sent home - that's a total of 500 pupils.



DfE advice can be very inconstant - I know where they were told to send a whole year group home with one case but other times close contacts, and then asked why a year group was sent home before!


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## lazybloke (16 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> Possibly took the belt and braces approach because they had trouble getting help from public health officials, like the case of @Julia9054's school.


Well the 2nd wave is well and truly here, and whilst Boris & chums continue to ignore SAGE advice I'm happy to support schools implementing their own belt & braces restrictions, as long as they do it sensibly eg with small bubbles.
For example, why is Y7 a single bubble of 250 pupils, when none of the form groups mix?


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Well the 2nd wave is well and truly here, and whilst Boris & chums continue to ignore SAGE advice I'm happy to support schools implementing their own belt & braces restrictions, as long as they do it sensibly eg with small bubbles.
> For example, why is Y7 a single bubble of 250 pupils, when none of the form groups mix?



The problem is it is difficult to keep parts of a year group separate when they are split up for various things like different sets for ability - they will inevitably be with different children in different classes. Plus teachers go across year groups. My personal opinion is the bubbles in secondary schools were window dressing by the Govt with no real impact - but hey that's like lots of other things such as pubs closing at 10pm etc.


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Well the 2nd wave is well and truly here, and whilst Boris & chums continue to ignore SAGE advice I'm happy to support schools implementing their own belt & braces restrictions, as long as they do it sensibly eg with small bubbles.
> For example, why is Y7 a single bubble of 250 pupils, when none of the form groups mix?



Yes it is here - because we have more or less gone back to normal before we had vaccine - what did people think would happen? Still they got a tenner of a meal so can't really complain that much.


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## fossyant (16 Oct 2020)

Seems quite a few colleagues are feeling 'down' - on a group 'chat' catch up earlier and a number are like 'meh'. One had her son sent home as someone at school tested positive. I've shoved my tunes on this afternoon !


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## Julia9054 (16 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> For example, why is Y7 a single bubble of 250 pupils, when none of the form groups mix?


They mix at break and lunch. It is inhumane (and probably illegal) to keep each form in a room for an entire day - they need fresh air, somewhere to eat and the chance to run around. We are able to designate 5 different areas of the school for 5 different year groups to eat and take breaks. We have 10 forms per year group.


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## lane (16 Oct 2020)

Well logically in a school my daughter is at with 1,300 students plus say 150 staff based on infection rate of 1 in 160 there will be 9 infected at any time. Although the local infection rate is higher and the figures are a couple of week out of date so probably higher at any time, which is a lot more than test positive each week probably because a lot don't show symptoms. My son is in a higher risk age group and 2,000 at his college plus staff so could easily be 20 infected there at any one time - in fact with Nottingham being highest in the country could well be more.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Oct 2020)

We've lost two paperboys this week after a year 11 pupil at the local school returned a positive test and everyone else was sent home to isolate for a week.


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## Julia9054 (16 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Well logically in a school my daughter is at with 1,300 students plus say 150 staff based on infection rate of 1 in 160 there will be 9 infected at any time. Although the local infection rate is higher and the figures are a couple of week out of date so probably higher at any time, which is a lot more than test positive each week probably because a lot don't show symptoms. My son is in a higher risk age group and 2,000 at his college plus staff so could easily be 20 infected there at any one time - in fact with Nottingham being highest in the country could well be more.


Bit scary isn’t it! 
There are 2000 in my school - I’m a bit surprised we have only had one official incident. (Well, 2 - sibling of case one also tested positive)


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## Unkraut (16 Oct 2020)

The middle one has been tested in England, and eldest and her hubby have been tested here. The positive news is they were all negative. Bit of a relief, but I do wonder a little bit if it might have been nice for them to have got it over with.


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## DaveReading (16 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> but I do wonder a little bit if it might have been nice for them to have got it over with.



Always assuming that catching Covid once means that you've "got it over with".


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## All uphill (16 Oct 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Always assuming that catching Covid once means that you've "got it over with".


And that Covid means sick then recover, not long covid or curtains.

Since our son started the long covid journey I'm seeing every day I have in good health as a bonus to be enjoyed.


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## lane (17 Oct 2020)

Just receive weekly covid update from my Son's college in Nottingham - 5 positive tests this week all students no staff. They mandated masks in classrooms a few days ago and hope this is helping.


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## Bazzer (17 Oct 2020)

Not entirely sure how this will play out. Students at the college child 2 currently attends, have been told they are in lockdown from today. But she is currently at home with us for the weekend, in an area not subject to the tightest restrictions. She claims to have been told she has to return and accommodation staff will be checking up to make sure she returns.


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## RoadRider400 (17 Oct 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Not entirely sure how this will play out. Students at the college child 2 currently attends, have been told they are in lockdown from today. But she is currently at home with us for the weekend, in an area not subject to the tightest restrictions. *She claims to have been told she has to return and accommodation staff will be checking up to make sure she returns.*


Are they going to come and bundle her into a van if she refuses? What a load of nonsense.


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> I think we need stop calling very minor changes "lockdowns".



Mockdowns.


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## lane (18 Oct 2020)

What your view be on this?

We have gone into tier 2. Yesterday my son who is 17 met his friends outside for a good part of the day. I asked him what he thought about this. 

He said that one of his friend's parents had said he was still welcome in their house. They live about a mile away and are not in tier 2. I asked what he thought about that. He said on the one hand (1) I don't think the tier 2 was really for where we live (which is probably correct because our area borders both Nottingham (highest cases in the country) and Derby which is not in tier two and has quite low cases. We live right at the Derby side and right at the edge of the tier 2 area. (2) I sit next to my friend on the bus for 40 minutes twice a day and spend time with them at college as well - so I am spending a lot of time indoors with them anyway. On the other hand I was probably spending too much time indoors with other people anyway. 

Myself on the one hand I think it we don't follow the rules what is the point and on the other I doubt it would make any difference if he went to see his friend in their house. So really not sure what to say to him.


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## Bazzer (18 Oct 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Are they going to come and bundle her into a van if she refuses? What a load of nonsense.


Indeed. When college were spoken to about it, during the conversation there were step climb downs from a starting point of: she must come back today, through she must come back tomorrow, to no we can't make her come back, but we would like her to.
As it happens, my daughter decided she had to go back for other reasons, but it was a cack handed way of dealing with the issue. And, it was obvious when we dropped her off, that the college being in lock down was not being enforced, as no one accounted for her going back and a number of the students were going off site in taxis, dressed for a night on the town.


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## marinyork (18 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> What your view be on this?
> 
> We have gone into tier 2. Yesterday my son who is 17 met his friends outside for a good part of the day. I asked him what he thought about this.
> 
> ...



The figures for most of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire are bad now, sadly. You hinted at this the other day. It's not at all a case of media circulating statements of Nottingham is the worst place in the country but only because we have a load of badly behaved students or somesuch phrase. The virus is rampant throughout the whole of Nottinghamshire and quite worrying big chunks of Derbyshire. More of Derbyshire will likely be tier 2 in the coming weeks. 

Outside his risk of contacting the virus is 19x lower than indoors. If everyone was seeing people outdoors even for long periods of time but limiting it to 1-2 friends then things would be a lot better than they are now.


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## lane (18 Oct 2020)

Yeah I have seen Derby likely going into tier 2 within 10 days (although rates in Nottingham are massively higher than Derby) but weird when the area that he lives and socialises in, which is basically a school catchment area (his old one and my daughter's current one), is now split into two different tiers. Also if he is spending all day with someone anyway what difference will it really make? Thanks for the input though.

On the subject of students I am convinced that is where the problem originated even if it is no longer confined to them. It only started when they came back, was very much initially concentrated in student areas, and there have been 1,500 cases at one Uni and the other one won't disclose the number. When they came back initially there was photos of trams and stations packed out with students coming into the city for night out and that was reported to be for a solid four hours.


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## All uphill (18 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> What your view be on this?
> 
> We have gone into tier 2. Yesterday my son who is 17 met his friends outside for a good part of the day. I asked him what he thought about this.
> 
> ...


Interesting. 

It's great that you and your son are discussing this. 👍

I'd say that we should all obey the rules as we understand them, but recognise that any set of rules will create anomalies about which we can all argue endlessly. 

I'd suggest you encourage him to think for himself about the risks and what he thinks he should do to be a good citizen during a pandemic, above and beyond the roolz.


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## marinyork (18 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Yeah I have seen Derby likely going into tier 2 within 10 days (although rates in Nottingham are massively higher than Derby) but weird when the area that he lives and socialises in, which is basically a school catchment area (his old one and my daughter's current one), is now split into two different tiers. Also if he is spending all day with someone anyway what difference will it really make? Thanks for the input though.



It really depends how far away he is from the friend. This is something that varies. If someone is 30-50 cm away for many hours indoors or outdoors, it probably doesn't make much difference. If someone is mostly 1-2m away and sometimes mask and mostly outdoors that's quite a lot lower risk. Most people I see outdoors/indoors in inter household mixing are 30-70cm away from someone else. That's pretty much not bother type behaviours from a virus point of view. 

Things reopened up early June. Last time in many countries it appears around 2 months of unhindered spread of the virus led to where we were (and other countries that got the virus later fared better if they implemented changes at the same time). I think July and August were fairly normal behaviour months. Three/four months instead of two.


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## lane (18 Oct 2020)

There is no social distancing at college or on the bus but masks are compulsory - think it's the same when he socialises inside. I will tell him to stick to the rules. He will spend more time with me probably put me at more risk. You can't win!


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## raleighnut (18 Oct 2020)

I've had to change my vote, Maz's Son has tested positive, luckily last week whilst coming back from town Maz was toying with the idea of going to see him but eventually couldn't be bothered getting off the bus.


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## marinyork (18 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> There is no social distancing at college or on the bus but masks are compulsory - think it's the same when he socialises inside. I will tell him to stick to the rules. He will spend more time with me probably put me at more risk. You can't win!



There's no social distancing anywhere in society except offices and outside pubs.

As you are somewhere with a high number of cases I would try and encourage your son not to see things as a last gasp before tighter measures, but something to take advantage of where careful behaviour can likely mean people stay safe.

Risk within households varies. I've noticed the last 8 months how super close most families get to each other. So it's difficult, just got to be sensible and cross our fingers, hunker down for winter and try and look out for each other.


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## lane (18 Oct 2020)

Think we are at 290 per 100,000 whereas Nottingham is over 900. Problem is it's spreading out of Nottingham to surrounding areas.


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## Unkraut (19 Oct 2020)

All uphill said:


> And that Covid means sick then recover, not long covid or curtains.
> 
> Since our son started the long covid journey I'm seeing every day I have in good health as a bonus to be enjoyed.


I hope he makes a complete recovery. I am aware that even in younger people the virus can do damage, it's not just the very old. A Liberal MP here caught the virus at 48, thought she was likely to die and said her goodbyes, did in fact recover but weeks later still gets out of breath going up steps and can no longer sing. Whether this will remain so time will tell.

That said, I'm starting to wonder if there is too much panic being spread by government overreaction to the spread. It's not possible to stop it, shouldn't the measures be targeted at the most vulnerable? For example, from today pupils in schools will have to wear a mask all day, but this demographic is not driving the spread and is not likely to suffer from the virus if they get it. Is this really necessary? Is this going to do long-term damage to development and well-being? 

I think it right to question this, but I have not joined the anti-vaxers or loony conspiracy theorists.


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## srw (19 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> this demographic is not driving the spread


It is in the UK. 

The second wave started in young adults, including school children, and is now powering up the age brackets.


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## kingrollo (19 Oct 2020)

Welsh 17 day lockdown announced.


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## lazybloke (19 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> It is in the UK.
> 
> The second wave started in young adults, including school children, and is now powering up the age brackets.


Yes, the last stats i saw (sometime last week) showed that "Education" was the largest source of infections. I didn't see a further breakdown, but the numbers in the media point firmly at Further Education as the largest single source.

Young adults are your nightmare asymptomatic superspreaders so there's a huge risk they will take the virus home with them at Christmas, especially after a December of parties/snogfest/shagfest.
Would it be better to enforce 2 weeks of self-isolation NOW, and then close all further education accommodation. Get the students home and move all courses online?

Christmsa is going to be a huge problem. People moving all over the country, family gatherings. Expect to see a large spike in the stats in January... or should there be a nationwide lockdown?


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

Before the schools opened the Government said there was no evidence they spread the virus. This was based on research when the schools were closed to all but key workers and it was possible to maintain social distancing. Who would have thought that research would not read across to schools being fully opening with children cheek by jowl. 

I saw some research that said closing pubs would reduce R by 0.2 and closing schools by 0.5.

Round here without doubt the universities have been the issue.


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Yes, the last stats i saw (sometime last week) showed that "Education" was the largest source of infections. I didn't see a further breakdown, but the numbers in the media point firmly at Further Education as the largest single source.
> 
> Young adults are your nightmare asymptomatic superspreaders so there's a huge risk they will take the virus home with them at Christmas, especially after a December of parties/snogfest/shagfest.
> Would it be better to enforce 2 weeks of self-isolation NOW, and then close all further education accommodation. Get the students home and move all courses online?
> ...



There will be a nationwide lockdown - possibly in all but name - before Christmas.


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## Unkraut (19 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> It is in the UK.
> 
> The second wave started in young adults, including school children, and is now powering up the age brackets.


Not to get too side-tracked into this, but since the epidemic began the greatest number of infections here have been between 15 and 59 years old, weighted slightly to the higher end. The number of infections, those tested positive, doesn't tell you very much, what counts is how many become seriously ill, and the death rate of those with other conditions. I don't think anyone has actually died of covid-19 itself.

I did see the average age of those infected has come down, I believe to 39, whereas at the beginning it was considerably older.


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## SpokeyDokey (19 Oct 2020)

Another batch of Covidiots rear their dopey heads:

Friend of Lovely Wife has invited her mid 30's son and girlfriend up to their home in The Lakes for next weekend.

Son and girlfriend are residing in a Tier 3 area!

The Mother says that following a phone call when the son said he is desperate for a mum hug (!) she invited them up.

Both son and girlfriend work in the NHS (!).

Apparently all will be ok as they (son & girlfriend) "know what they are doing".  

My patience has worn very thin with people like these.


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

Another letter from my daughters school; another two members of staff that makes 7 in the past two weeks. The school has about 1,300 students compared to my Son's college which has about 2,000 all post 16. My son's college has less members of staff testing positive, they have a strict mask policy. My son's college is in Nottingham (top in the country for covid) my daughter's school is in Derby much lower rate of covid. I would question is my daughter's school are doing enough to protect their staff; well I think they clearly aren't. If I was a member of staff at the school I would be asking some serious questions.


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

Looking at a recent set of accounts they have 165 staff so that is over 4% tested positive in the past two weeks. Does that seem high?


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## lazybloke (19 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Another batch of Covidiots rear their dopey heads:
> 
> Friend of Lovely Wife has invited her mid 30's son and girlfriend up to their home in The Lakes for next weekend.
> 
> ...


There are 4 living next door to me, and I can see their drive from my kitchen when I'm washing up - so it's easy to count their guests to see how far they are stretching the rule of 6 each day. It's often into double figures.

In many ways there are community minded ;they both work in the local community, and are involved with the local schools. They helped their elderly neighbours during lockdown, and they regularly have their own aged parents over. But they also mix with countless other people, so they are a significant infection risk. They had FOUR carloads of visitors in their house at the same time on Friday afternoon/evening!
Of course, they were the first to join the thursday night clap - but even that wsa their excuse to throw a weekly party and have loads of people over & mixing.


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## Andy in Germany (19 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I hope he makes a complete recovery. I am aware that even in younger people the virus can do damage, it's not just the very old. A Liberal MP here caught the virus at 48, thought she was likely to die and said her goodbyes, did in fact recover but weeks later still gets out of breath going up steps and can no longer sing. Whether this will remain so time will tell.
> 
> That said, I'm starting to wonder if there is too much panic being spread by government overreaction to the spread. It's not possible to stop it, shouldn't the measures be targeted at the most vulnerable? For example, from today pupils in schools will have to wear a mask all day, but this demographic is not driving the spread and is not likely to suffer from the virus if they get it. Is this really necessary? Is this going to do long-term damage to development and well-being?
> 
> I think it right to question this, but I have not joined the anti-vaxers or loony conspiracy theorists.



Trouble is, they go to school, exchange viruses, possibly without symptoms, then go home, where perhaps Grandma comes over to look after them because mum and dad are back at work. I don't think it's to stop school children getting ill per se but stop them carrying the virus to more vulnerable people.


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## Andy in Germany (19 Oct 2020)

Today our local town went into "High risk": the outbreak was tracked fairly quickly to a local football match last week... And the fact that the teams decided to have a pi§§ up afterwards in the clubhouse, despite the maximum group size being 15 at the moment.

Apparently those who attended are in a great deal of trouble, partly from the law and partly from local who quickly worked out exactly what happened*...

On the other hand, it's good to note the universal brotherhood of humankind: in all nations everywhere there is a hard core of plonkers...

*_ETS: Not implying anyone broke patient confidentiality here, but in a small town the sequence of events was pretty obvious..._


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## Julia9054 (19 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Another letter from my daughters school; another two members of staff that makes 7 in the past two weeks. The school has about 1,300 students compared to my Son's college which has about 2,000 all post 16. My son's college has less members of staff testing positive, they have a strict mask policy. My son's college is in Nottingham (top in the country for covid) my daughter's school is in Derby much lower rate of covid. I would question is my daughter's school are doing enough to protect their staff; well I think they clearly aren't. If I was a member of staff at the school I would be asking some serious questions.


It depends if the members of staff caught it from each other/the pupils or if the 7 cases are unconnected and caught outside school.


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

I don't know the answer to that but with 7 in two weeks I would be surprised if there wasn't transmission within the school, but it could be a coincidence.


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## fossyant (19 Oct 2020)

A colleague has had both her kids sent home from school and they have to isolate for two weeks. No day trips over half term, stuck in the house.


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## vickster (19 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> A colleague has had both her kids sent home from school and they have to isolate for two weeks. No day trips over half term, stuck in the house.


They can catch up on all the missed learning from the spring, should keep them busy


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## fossyant (19 Oct 2020)

vickster said:


> They can catch up on all the missed learning from the spring, should keep them busy



Oh that's Evil. She's already had enough of home schooling and working.


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## vickster (19 Oct 2020)

They must be able to go outside?
if they do the learning on their own, she still gets the time off work


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## stowie (19 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Of course, they were the first to join the thursday night clap - but even that wsa their excuse to throw a weekly party and have loads of people over & mixing.



Nurses, doctors and careworkers died in the first wave administering help to those with the disease and (certainly in the case of careworkers) getting pathetic levels of support in terms of PPE. We saw pictures of nurses sitting in corridors utterly dazed after working multiple shifts. People on the front line lived away from their families in order to minimise risk of spreading the disease. 

I think the least I can do is to wear a mask when I am told to, wash my hands, try to socially distance and keep to the rule of six by not throwing parties . I mean it doesn't seem much of a sacrifice in comparison.


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## lane (19 Oct 2020)

i would do that for purely selfish reasons anyway, never mind anything else.


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## fossyant (19 Oct 2020)

vickster said:


> They must be able to go outside?
> if they do the learning on their own, she still gets the time off work



Garden... still stuck at home... shes working full time (or trying) with the schooling/arguments. Her hubby is out at work (lucky sod).


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## lazybloke (19 Oct 2020)

vickster said:


> They must be able to go outside?
> *if they do the learning on their own*, she still gets the time off work


I drafted quite a long response to this before seeing the wink


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## tom73 (19 Oct 2020)

stowie said:


> Nurses, doctors and careworkers died in the first wave administering help to those with the disease and (certainly in the case of careworkers) getting pathetic levels of support in terms of PPE. We saw pictures of nurses sitting in corridors utterly dazed after working multiple shifts. People on the front line lived away from their families in order to minimise risk of spreading the disease.
> 
> I think the least I can do is to wear a mask when I am told to, wash my hands, try to socially distance and keep to the rule of six by not throwing parties . I mean it doesn't seem much of a sacrifice in comparison.



Over 600 of them, (official numbers never got fully counted) many left are now running part empty and now set to do it all over again. You kind of get use it after a while seeing them totally worn out at times it’s part of the job. But this has been something else never seen Mrs 73 this worn out. PPE is still issue only last week Mrs 73 had to carry out a risky intervention without the right level.
Your right going the basics is not much of an ask seeing people not giving a stuff. Was sort of personal but it’s gone past that now. I just now think one day no one will here to help you.


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## The Crofted Crest (19 Oct 2020)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UrkFY0zTLg


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## srw (19 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The number of infections, those tested positive, doesn't tell you very much, what counts is how many become seriously ill, and the death rate of those with other conditions. I don't think anyone has actually died of covid-19 itself.


The people who write death certificates would disagree with your last assertion. What really counts in death terms is the total number who die of any cause over and above the (pretty predictable) number who would die anyway. So far in the UK that's about 60,000 people.

And the Evening Standard today reported on an estimate that another 60,000 people in the UK have got "long Covid" - that really nasty combination of fatigue, respiratory problems, heart disease and circulatory problems that is very unpredictable and extremely time-consuming to get over. Most of them will be working-age and were absolutely fine before they got sick.

The second wave that's now upon us could well mean that we end up with well over 100,000 people of working age in the UK with long Covid. Which would make it a problem on a par with cancer.


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I don't think anyone has actually died of covid-19 itself



Seriously???


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Oct 2020)

Youngest home from school yet again tomorrow after more positive tests at his school. Close contacts of positive will have to isolate 14 days, the rest return after a day. 

Happening every couple of weeks. 

Middle son, deferred from uni after a level fiasco, rejected today from covid drug trial for marginally high blood pressure. 

The gift keeps on giving.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Youngest home from school yet again tomorrow after more positive tests at his school. Close contacts of positive will have to isolate 14 days, the rest return after a day.
> 
> Happening every couple of weeks.
> 
> ...



You wouldn’t want him getting seriously ill from a Covid trial.

P.S. Which trial?


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You wouldn’t want him getting seriously ill from a Covid trial.
> 
> P.S. Which trial?



Somebody has to volunteer for trials, or we'll never get treatments. Risks IMV very low. 

https://researchforyou.co.uk/healthy-male-volunteers/


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Somebody has to volunteer for trials, or we'll never get treatments. Risks IMV very low.
> 
> https://researchforyou.co.uk/healthy-male-volunteers/



They do but the volunteers need to meet the health risk profile of the trial. Your son didn’t. It’d be unethical to accept him in those circumstances.


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> They do but the volunteers need to meet the health risk profile of the trial. Your son didn’t. It’d be unethical to accept him in those circumstances.



Oh, absolutely. Couldn't agree more.


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## Unkraut (20 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> [Me] I don't think anyone has actually died of covid-19 itself
> 
> Seriously???


The point I am making is this: autopsies carried out on patients who have died with covid show death only occurred in combination with other illnesses, usually life-threatening. The autopsies also show no discernable damage done to other organs apart from the respiratory system. It's still early days and this might change with new studies on more patients, but that is the position at the moment.

We will only know how many, if any, excess deaths there have been from the pandemic after the end of the year, when it will be possible to compare with previous years' averages. The expectation is that the figure will not have dramatically increased, meaning most if not all deaths with covid would have occurred during the year anyway, or can be compared with flu and other seasonal diseases. This view, I might add is not from YT pseudo-experts seeking attention but some in the mainstream of current research into the virus e.g. professor Streeck. It is not uncontroversial. It in no way plays down the seriousness of the disease, but it ought to modify the tendency to go into outright panic over it by regarding it as more lethal for the majority of the population than it is.


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## srw (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> autopsies carried out on patients who have died with covid show death only occurred in combination with other illnesses, usually life-threatening


Where is your evidence for this startling assertion?

It is very different from the usually reported claim that Covid 19 kills people who are otherwise healthy.


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## C R (20 Oct 2020)

Just got a text from the primary school our youngest attends. There's been a positive in his year group bubble, so all his year group are to stay home for 14 days.


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## Bazzer (20 Oct 2020)

All of one of my nephews year group has been sent home because of a positive test. This is the second time since term started. 
He had only been back a few days after the previous mass sending home, when because he had a sniffle, school gave my sister 15 minutes notice to collect him and would not allow him back into school without a confirmed negative test result. 
This is wrecking his education and as much as I admire the efforts of most teachers during normal times, there are some seem to be using the current difficulties to their own advantage.


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## srw (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> We will only know how many, if any, excess deaths there have been from the pandemic after the end of the year, when it will be possible to compare with previous years' averages.


That's wrong too. The number of deaths expected at any particular time of year is predictable. It would take a startlingly low death rate in the rest of the year for Covid not to have caused thousands of unexpected early deaths.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

Son told to self isolate by the app in the early hours. Went to wake him up this morning and there is a large note on his bedroom door (which I missed and went in his room anyway!)

Feels a bit unsatisfactory. He has a small group of friends he says have the app and none of them told to isolate or have symptoms. Therefore seems like it must certainly be in college - probably in class because. But college have their own system for identifying close contacts and he has not been contacted by the college. He has been told 10 days.


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## winjim (20 Oct 2020)

Without properly referenced sources and data, and despite protestations to the contrary, we're moving dangerously close to conspiracy theory territory here.


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## PK99 (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> What your view be on this?
> 
> We have gone into tier 2. Yesterday my son who is 17 met his friends outside for a good part of the day. I asked him what he thought about this.
> 
> ...



My personal approach is that if I do not follow the rules because I think they are not necessary for me, I have no right to criticize anyone else for not following the rules.


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## IaninSheffield (20 Oct 2020)

Bazzer said:


> as much as I admire the efforts of most teachers during normal times, there are some seem to be using the current difficulties to their own advantage.


Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?


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## fossyant (20 Oct 2020)

We should be following the rules as much as possible - we've been in restrictions since July, and the rates have rocketed all over. I've yet to meet anyone that's caught the virus, but we're all following the rules. There are far too many ignoring it hence the rocket in cases. My neighbour is a local practice nurse and she's been having large family gatherings most Friday nights ! My area was dragged into the GM restrictions despite being very low. All gone to pot now the schools and colleges are back - rocketing infections from schools, and parents not stopping the kids meeting outside school - still see big groups of teenagers.

All we can do is manage the rate the hospitals will fill up, hence thinking maybe the resources should go into enabling more shielding (priority deliveries etc).


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## lazybloke (20 Oct 2020)

More confirmed cases reported by our local school. Doesn't affect our kids as they're already at home in self-isolation, but the school now has more pupils in self-isolation than not; they've sent FIVE entire year-groups home! (out of a total of 7).
I feared the horrors of home-schooling again, but this time they've worked out how to run lessons over Teams - it works absolutely brilliantly.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Son told to self isolate by the app in the early hours. Went to wake him up this morning and there is a large note on his bedroom door (which I missed and went in his room anyway!)
> 
> Feels a bit unsatisfactory. He has a small group of friends he says have the app and none of them told to isolate or have symptoms. Therefore seems like it must certainly be in college - probably in class because. But college have their own system for identifying close contacts and he has not been contacted by the college. He has been told 10 days.




I have now contacted the college and they say if it is the app has detected you are in proximity to someone you can ignore it - especially if it is in college because they carry out their own tracking of close contacts in the college. Realistically it couldn't have been anywhere else so the who app thing seems to be a waste of time.


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## Unkraut (20 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> The number of deaths expected at any particular time of year is predictable.


I think the point is that over a longer period of time, the virus will not have been found to have been particularly lethal. I was very surprised the first time I heard this.

Boris Palmer, the Green (please note) Bürgermeister of Tübingen made the statement 'we are risking ruining the economy in order to save people who would have been dead in a few months anyway'. It was live radio and his has since apologised for the rather crass formulation. 

Some of the membership wanted him removed, the leader distanced himself from the statement because it was offensive, but didn't deal with the argument. The tone mattered more than the substance. The state has a constitutional duty of care to its citizens, and a mauled economy will reduce its ability to achieve this through reduced income and resources, let alone the damage unemployment does when people experience it, or the damage this is doing to primary age school children found in a study published a couple of days ago.

There may be arguments against Palmer's position, but the debate needs to be had and not suppressed.


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## Julia9054 (20 Oct 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?


Quite.
It is a major pain having pupil officially self isolating as you now have to set them work as well as do your day job.
Even if we didn‘t, we would be responsible for catching them up when they returned - yet more work. I can’t possibly see what sort of advantage I would get for having pupils in my class self isolating.


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## C R (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I think the point is that over a longer period of time, the virus will not have been found to have been particularly lethal. I was very surprised the first time I heard this.
> 
> Boris Palmer, the Green (please note) Bürgermeister of Tübingen made the statement 'we are risking ruining the economy in order to save people who would have been dead in a few months anyway'. It was live radio and his has since apologised for the rather crass formulation.
> 
> ...


The number of excess deaths is such that we are not looking at deaths that might have happened in a few months anyway. At least in the UK we are looking at close to a 50% increase, things might be different in Germany.

On top of the increased mortality we also have the increased morbidity with significant numbers of long covid cases among working age people. The long term effects on these people's lives and cost to the health service will not be insignificant.


----------



## srw (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I was very surprised the first time I heard this.


It isn't true. This was exposed, debated thoroughly and debunked way back in the summer. 

The dichotomy between saving the economy and saving lives is a false one. You save the economy by saving lives. Killing people, or making them sick, is bad for the economy.


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## lazybloke (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I have now contacted the college and they say if it is the app has detected you are in proximity to someone you can ignore it - especially if it is in college because they carry out their own tracking of close contacts in the college. Realistically it couldn't have been anywhere else so the who app thing seems to be a waste of time.


Here's an article that explores the inaccuracies of bluetooth proximity detection in the app.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Here's an article that explores the inaccuracies of bluetooth proximity detection in the app.



I think the app detected it in a classroom but per the college seating plan he hasn't been told to isolate so I think that's all we can go with. At least he won't need to isolate for 10 days and i think I will suggest he turns the scanning off on the app it just creates a lot of unnecessary hassle.


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## C R (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I think the app detected it in a classroom but per the college seating plan he hasn't been told to isolate so I think that's all we can go with. At least he won't need to isolate for 10 days and i think I will suggest he turns the scanning off on the app it just creates a lot of unnecessary hassle.


On the other hand you could say that the app is telling the college that their method is not picking up all close contacts.


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## Bazzer (20 Oct 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?





Julia9054 said:


> Quite.
> It is a major pain having pupil officially self isolating as you now have to set them work as well as do your day job.
> Even if we didn‘t, we would be responsible for catching them up when they returned - yet more work. I can’t possibly see what sort of advantage I would get for having pupils in my class self isolating.


I do not doubt getting a pupil who is officially self isolating to catch up can be a major pain, in the same way as catching up a child who before the pandemic, might have been off with a illness. I am talking about online lessons not being given to whole classes who are not in school. My sister had repeatedly spoken of this and I saw it for myself for the first time three weeks ago, with another of her sons, whose whole year group had been sent home and whom she had asked me keep an eye on for part of the day. No online lessons for my nephew in the morning and at lunchtime, his computer screen showed all his classmates present for the lesson, but no teacher. The teacher logged on 20 minutes late and after 15 minutes the lesson was stopped. I get there can be technical problems, but this wasn't the first time it had happened, nor has it been the last.
Some of child 2's on line lessons at college are also suffering. For example, lecturers not logging on on time; lecturers deciding to have a tea break part way through the tutorial. She even has one whose tutorials are frequently interrupted by the lecturer's dog barking and generally making a nuisance in the background.
Would schools and colleges seriously tolerate this if lessons/ lectures were in person?
And whilst I don't have teaching experience, it is very close to home. My wife was a teacher for over 30 years and was a SENCO for the majority of that time in three different schools. And child 1 is an assistant head and an LA specialist maths teacher, whose school had to stay open during the lockdown. Some of the comments she makes after visiting schools since September echo what my daughter and nephews are finding.


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## fossyant (20 Oct 2020)

Looks like GM goes Tier 3 at midnight. Let's hope gyms/classes can still continue as in Lancs - this will affect many people's mental health if not.

Might have to buy this cycling t-shirt for venturing into East Cheshire (very close to where I live) . Might get some of the OAP's out of the way !


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> On the other hand you could say that the app is telling the college that their method is not picking up all close contacts.
> [/QUOT
> 
> Well I have spoken to the college and they have seating plans etc. They said my son's name had not come up and they did have grey areas they had to make a decisions on but tended to err on the side of caution. I am not dealing with perfect information obviously but can only work with what I have.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Looks like GM goes Tier 3 at midnight. Let's hope gyms/classes can still continue as in Lancs - this will affect many people's mental health if not.
> 
> Might have to buy this cycling t-shirt for venturing into East Cheshire (very close to where I live) . Might get some of the OAP's out of the way !
> 
> View attachment 553583



I had read that gyms were no longer included in tier 3 restrictions.


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## SpokeyDokey (20 Oct 2020)

Re Tier 3 restrictions, surely the advisory don't travel in/out of the region should be mandatory?

Speaking today to someone I know who owns a very large static homes site it would appear that some owners who are in Tier 3 areas are determined to visit their second homes come what may!

Also, I have a friend who owns a large guest house who has received a number of enquiries from people in the Liverpool/Lancs area who are attempting to visit the area. These are coming via eg booking .com in the main and a few direct. What to do about these?

Finally, some golfing friends are travelling from here into a Tier 3 area next week to play a pre-booked game. Insane!


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## Hover Fly (20 Oct 2020)

Police are sending people from the adjoining high level (Barrow) area back home from pubs in this medium area (South Lakeland).


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

Interesting points. I will in all likelihood be travelling into a tier 3 area most week days for work. At the weekend should I avoid my usual cycle routes that travel into the area?


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## IaninSheffield (20 Oct 2020)

Bazzer said:


> I do not doubt getting a pupil who is officially self isolating to catch up can be a major pain, in the same way as catching up a child who before the pandemic, might have been off with a illness. I am talking about online lessons not being given to whole classes who are not in school. My sister had repeatedly spoken of this and I saw it for myself for the first time three weeks ago, with another of her sons, whose whole year group had been sent home and whom she had asked me keep an eye on for part of the day. No online lessons for my nephew in the morning and at lunchtime, his computer screen showed all his classmates present for the lesson, but no teacher. The teacher logged on 20 minutes late and after 15 minutes the lesson was stopped. I get there can be technical problems, but this wasn't the first time it had happened, nor has it been the last.
> Some of child 2's on line lessons at college are also suffering. For example, lecturers not logging on on time; lecturers deciding to have a tea break part way through the tutorial. She even has one whose tutorials are frequently interrupted by the lecturer's dog barking and generally making a nuisance in the background.
> Would schools and colleges seriously tolerate this if lessons/ lectures were in person?
> And whilst I don't have teaching experience, it is very close to home. My wife was a teacher for over 30 years and was a SENCO for the majority of that time in three different schools. And child 1 is an assistant head and an LA specialist maths teacher, whose school had to stay open during the lockdown. Some of the comments she makes after visiting schools since September echo what my daughter and nephews are finding.


Thanks for responding in such detail; it's clearly of concern that your younger relatives are suffering such poor experiences. Has your sister discussed her worries with anyone at the school and college?


----------



## fossyant (20 Oct 2020)

Well, despite the new GM T3 rules, the Nursing home have just informed us we can get back to visiting MIL from the car park. MrsF very relieved.


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## SpokeyDokey (20 Oct 2020)

Hover Fly said:


> Police are sending people from the adjoining high level (Barrow) area back home from pubs in this medium area (South Lakeland).



That's good to hear.


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## Bazzer (20 Oct 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Thanks for responding in such detail; it's clearly of concern that your younger relatives are suffering such poor experiences. Has your sister discussed her worries with anyone at the school and college?


My nephews, yes. The outcome? Rearrange the following words; wind, against, p1issing, the. But my sister is taking the same school to tribunal in respect of my younger nephew for another matter. What is more concerning is his brother who is 15 and at a key stage of his GCSEs.
Child 2 has been told to keep detailed records and I have suggested recordings, but she is more measured, at least in the first instance, than me. For the time being she has other matters to address, but her empathy will snap soon.


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## kingrollo (20 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> Where is your evidence for this startling assertion?
> 
> It is very different from the usually reported claim that Covid 19 kills people who are otherwise healthy.



I would be classed as having underlying health conditions. As an asthmatic with a leaky heart valve. 

I haven't taken a day off sick in over 7 years - ride my bike - my underlying health conditions don't affect my quality of life at all.

But if I croaked it through covid - I'd be one of those with underlying health conditions - who probably would have died anyway..!!!!


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

Yes - what percentage of people - especially over 50 - have something that would be described as underlying condition - asthma, slightly raised BP whatever. Bet it's a high percentage and yet we don't expect them all to die this year under normal circumstances. But the reporting is "all but one had an underlying condition" as if it then doesn't matter somehow when in reality they might live another 20 years.

Take my dad, 2 heart attacks in his early 60s, high BP etc. but he is 91 now and still pottering in the shed doing woodwork. In those nearly 30 years since his first heart attack he has lived many good years and also considerably enriched other peoples lives.


----------



## Adam4868 (20 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Re Tier 3 restrictions, surely the advisory don't travel in/out of the region should be mandatory?
> 
> Speaking today to someone I know who owns a very large static homes site it would appear that some owners who are in Tier 3 areas are determined to visit their second homes come what may!
> 
> ...



Were in tier 3 here in Blackpool yet the Pleasure Beach,Tower,Arcades still open.The goverment only "advise" against travel I think.


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## PK99 (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Yes - what percentage of people - especially over 50 - have something that would be described as underlying condition - asthma, slightly raised BP whatever. Bet it's a high percentage and yet we don't expect them all to die this year under normal circumstances. But the reporting is "all but one had an underlying condition" as if it then doesn't matter somehow when in reality they might live another 20 years.
> 
> Take my dad, 2 heart attacks in his early 60s, high BP etc. but he is 91 now and still pottering in the shed doing woodwork. In those nearly 30 years since his first heart attack he has lived many good years and also considerably enriched other peoples lives.



The underlying conditions referred to are detailed here:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/

Things like high BP are not included


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> The underlying conditions referred to are detailed here:
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/
> 
> Things like high BP are not included


I'm now in _"clinically extremely vulnerable"_ and _"
clinically vulnerable"_ according to that.


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## SpokeyDokey (20 Oct 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Were in tier 3 here in Blackpool yet the Pleasure Beach,Tower,Arcades still open.The goverment only *"advise"* against travel I think.



They do - I'd prefer a total ban on movement in and out of tier 3 for all except essential travel as per original lockdown.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> The underlying conditions referred to are detailed here:
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/
> 
> Things like high BP are not included



Are you sure they don't include it in the stats re underlying conditions as opposed to advice on shielding?


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> The underlying conditions referred to are detailed here:
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/
> 
> Things like high BP are not included


BHF list it as one 
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health


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## DaveReading (20 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> But the reporting is "all but one had an underlying condition" as if it then doesn't matter somehow



I don't see any evidence that people with underlying conditions are somehow considered expendable.


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## Unkraut (20 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> Where is your evidence for this startling assertion? [autopsies carried out on patients who have died with covid show death only occurred in combination with other illnesses, usually life-threatening]


Fair question. First heard on a covid discussion program some time ago, and the claim was made by Prof. Dr. Klaus Püschel. He was (just retired) head of forensic medicine in Hamburg. Not a medical Brexiteer.

Against the initial advice of Robert Koch Institute (fear of infection) he did autopsies on corona patients in Hamburg with the support of the health authority and clinics, and the gist of his claim was that none of them had died from covid itself, only in conjunction with other pre-existing conditions, and almost all elderly. Up to September he had done 180 autopsies. 

The point was not to play down the seriousness of the virus (you always get some who latch onto these things), but to reduce the level of fear amongst the general population, especially the younger and fitter. This is something we are going to have to live with for quite some time (he is dubious of vaccines) and we need a sober assessment of the risks. A return to a more normal way of life for the majority.

Having seen what the virus can do to you, he has gained some useful knowledge in preventative measures for patients who end up in intensive care.

For those who have lost loved ones, he sees no problem in seeing the body for a final farewell. There is unnecessary fear associated with this.

Hamburg does not of course represent the whole world, and research is continuing.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2020)

DaveReading said:


> I don't see any evidence that people with underlying conditions are somehow considered expendable.


Why should we be?
However there's a minority that feel we shouldn't be allowed out, if it restricts what they can do.

I'm of the view that every one has a part to play. With us all, as far is possible, working to the same set of restrictions.


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## roubaixtuesday (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> A return to a more normal way of life for the majority.



This again. 

Who are the minority who should not "return to a more normal way of life"?

How many of them are there?

Where will they be incarcerated whilst the pandemic rages?

Who will look after them?

Where will their food come from?

When you think it's all over, what will the virus do with this fresh, virgin population to feast upon?

Are you sure you've thought this through?

How old are you?

Who is the oldest person you know whose life is worthwhile?

Are you really, really sure you've thought this through?

Really sure?


----------



## kingrollo (20 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Fair question. First heard on a covid discussion program some time ago, and the claim was made by Prof. Dr. Klaus Püschel. He was (just retired) head of forensic medicine in Hamburg. Not a medical Brexiteer.
> 
> Against the initial advice of Robert Koch Institute (fear of infection) he did autopsies on corona patients in Hamburg with the support of the health authority and clinics, and the gist of his claim was that none of them had died from covid itself, only in conjunction with other pre-existing conditions, and almost all elderly. Up to September he had done 180 autopsies.
> 
> ...


Semantics though. You could say no one dies of AIDS - or diabetes...it just wrecks a certain organ(s) in your body.


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## PK99 (20 Oct 2020)

classic33 said:


> BHF list it as one
> https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health



They refer to uncontrolled high BP.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> They refer to uncontrolled high BP.


_"We know that a diagnosis of high blood pressure (hypertension) is linked to a higher risk of serious illness from Covid-19, and therefore you are considered at high risk."_


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## PK99 (20 Oct 2020)

classic33 said:


> _"We know that a diagnosis of high blood pressure (hypertension) is linked to a higher risk of serious illness from Covid-19, and therefore you are considered at high risk."_



And

It seems likely that your increase in risk is relatively low if 


your blood pressure is well controlled, and 
it hasn’t caused your heart muscle to become thickened, and 
you have no other health conditions or risk factors (such as smoking, obesity or being over 70


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

None of which tells us one way or the other if high BP is taken as an underlying condition when they report the stats.


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## alicat (20 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Who is the oldest person you know whose life is worthwhile?



My dad is 88. I don't want his life to be curtailed more than it already is because of coronavirus. I don't want more freedom and normality at his expense.


----------



## classic33 (20 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> And
> 
> It seems likely that your increase in risk is relatively low if
> 
> ...


IF being the important word. We do not know if lane has been. But support groups do not put that information up in order to scare you.

Myself, I've been placed in the
clinically extremely vulnerable grouping due to epilepsy. Which is missing from that list. Done by doctors, not by simply reading from a list of "qualifying conditions". That would be too easy for some.


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## lane (20 Oct 2020)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...id19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020

My reading of the above link in detail suggests that anything someone had wrong with them including hypertension is regarded as a pre existing condition for the purpose of the stats


----------



## lane (21 Oct 2020)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...id19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020

My reading of the above link in detail suggests that anything someone had wrong with them including hypertension is regarded as a pre existing condition for the purpose of the


Adam4868 said:


> Were in tier 3 here in Blackpool yet the Pleasure Beach,Tower,Arcades still open.The goverment only "advise" against travel I think.



Why are the arcades open when they have closed bingo and soft play makes no sense at all.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (21 Oct 2020)

Well, two week self isolation done after coming back from Spain. No symptoms, no issues so back at work today  Thought I might have at least got a phone call from the authorities checking up on me but no, nothing.


----------



## Unkraut (21 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Who are the minority who should not "return to a more normal way of life"?


You haven't read what I said very carefully. The virus is lethal as a rule to those who are elderly and have pre-existing conditions. It follows it is not lethal to everybody else. It does mean though that measures to contain it can be targeted to protect those who are vulnerable, but apart from these is it right to create an atmosphere of living in fear and dread? The first signs of the damage this can do to the young are starting to emerge. There is as very difficult trade off to be had here.


roubaixtuesday said:


> Where will they be incarcerated whilst the pandemic rages?


A sober assessment of the danger of the virus doesn't lead to talk of incarceration. I get it that there is anger in Britain over Johnson's disastrous handing of the virus and the chronic lack of preparation. Whilst the German govt has shown more grip and was somewhat better prepared, I don't think they should be too proud of their achievement because the infection rate was brought down to 1_ before _govt measures took effect due to hygiene and distancing being followed _out of fear _that what was happening in Italy would happen here. It's not far away.


roubaixtuesday said:


> How old are you?


Old enough to be a some risk. Cycling and diet have made me fitter than ever but in two weeks this could go, either temporarily or permanently should I get infected, and depending on how it works out. Could die of it. My better half is probably at more risk. She could be badly affected by it or even die.


roubaixtuesday said:


> Who is the oldest person you know whose life is worthwhile?


Where are you getting the idea that because the high risk are elderly and already ill that their life isn't worthwhile? Haven't even hinted at this. It's still a tragedy for their families.


roubaixtuesday said:


> Are you really, really sure you've thought this through?


Yes. I'm looking for a sober and realistic assessment of what is going on, the risks that need to be faced and not avoided, but also avoid particularly the young from being put into a state of unnecessary fear and angst. 

I have no time for pig ignorant conspiracy theorists nor media seeking circulation and clicks, but am also wary of some politicians for whom the pandemic seems to have taken on a life of its own.


----------



## fossyant (21 Oct 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Well, two week self isolation done after coming back from Spain. No symptoms, no issues so back at work today  Thought I might have at least got a phone call from the authorities checking up on me but no, nothing.



Were you OK to WFH, or did you have to take extra hols. My employer is WFH if you can, if you can't then take leave or unpaid hols.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (21 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Yes. I'm looking for a sober and realistic assessment



OK, here goes.

If your strategy, as it seems to be, is to protect the vulnerable and let everyone else get back to normal. let's examine what that would actually mean for the UK.

First of all, how many old and otherwise vulnerable are there? Let's take a conservative estimate - 10 million.

Now, how many people live with, or look after them? Again, let's be conservative, 5 million.

Next, how long will these 15 million people need to be "protected"? Difficult to say. 6 months perhaps?

OK, so we've let the virus burn through the rest of the populace. Hospitals have been full for a few months and the economy has been devastated by the absence of millions of people from their jobs. We open up. What happens next?

Well, those vulnerable people are still susceptible to infection, the virus is still circulating, albeit at a lower level, and we can expect outbreaks through that unexposed population which will still end up killing hundreds of thousands of people.

Have you thought this through?

Sober enough?


----------



## C R (21 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> OK, here goes.
> 
> If your strategy, as it seems to be, is to protect the vulnerable and let everyone else get back to normal. let's examine what that would actually mean for the UK.
> 
> ...


The vulnerable assessment is even more complex than that. I am 48, reasonably fit and healthy, but type 1 diabetic, so not at higher risk of catching covid, but at higher risk if I were to catch it. In normal circumstances I would not fall in the "would have died in a few months anyway" group. But by the Hamburg professor accounting method I would not have died of COVID if I were to catch it and die of it. Like me many others with other chronic non evident conditions.

We have three school age children, and my wife can't work from home. How do I protect myself. Find a spot in the woods to pitch a tent and use our cat to shuttle food parcels to me?


----------



## Unkraut (21 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> If your strategy, as it seems to be, is to protect the vulnerable


Precisely.


roubaixtuesday said:


> and let everyone else get back to normal.


That's not what I said. I said *more* normality. I'm not saying go back to how is was when it broke out and let it run riot. But you cannot close down whole sectors of the economy indefinitely. The 'new normal' for the foreseeable future is going to have to have restrictions on liberty, but these should be kept to the minimum necessary to avoid economic and social damage. These latter reasons are why I don't think a repeat of the total lockdown in April could be repeated. 

Let as much normal life continue as you dare (restaurants, theatres) even if this means the infection rate goes up amongst the younger end of the population _providing_ it doesn't start to threaten the healthcare system and those most vulnerable.

This balance is never going to be easy. Should grandma in the nursing home be allowed to hug her grandchildren if she is happy with the risk of infection for her personally, rather than banning all visits? Should she be allowed to make that decision to avoid being lonely and miserable? But what if she does get infected and in turn infects others including the staff?


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## roubaixtuesday (21 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> I'm not saying go back to how is was when it broke out and let it run riot



OK, so what, exactly, are you saying?

What does "more normality " actually mean? Be specific please. 



Unkraut said:


> _providing_ it doesn't start to threaten the healthcare system and those most vulnerable.



It *will* threaten the most vulnerable. That's inevitable. 

So how, exactly will this threat be controlled in your future scenario? Be specific. 

It strikes me that whilst these are lovely sentiments, there is no practical thinking behind them. 

The expert consensus on these issues was set out recently in the Jon Snow memo. It's well worth a read. 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext


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## Andy in Germany (21 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> OK, so what, exactly, are you saying?
> 
> What does "more normality " actually mean? Be specific please.



One example could be the workshop I'm working at: we have to balance the risks of C-19 affecting people in a higher risk category against the need for our clients with Psychological disabilities to have some "normality" in their lives. If we don't open as "normal" many would have a major crisis (we have to nag them to take holidays) and some would be at a very high risk of suicide. 

So we check everyone for symptoms when they come in, and we have a set of questions if someone was on holiday for more than a couple of days. If they've been in a "high risk" area we have to get clearance from the main office in Freiburg. I'm not sure what they would know that we don't but then it's their responsibility and they're insured... 
Anyone with symptoms (and we have to tell some people the important symptoms every day) is told to get a test before they come into the building. If someone tests positive in protected accommodation the whole building is put in lockdown, and we don't let clients from the same accommodation into the workshop for 2 weeks, with or without symptoms, unless they've been tested and cleared. 
We have clearly marked "social distancing" points on the floor where people queue to wait for lunch, and separate the groups so people are at least 1.5m apart when eating. People can't take their own cutlery any more: it's handed out by someone wearing gloves. 
All handles are disinfected twice a day.
And I _still_ have to nag people to wear masks and keep their distance...

I'm not sure if it's the best solution, or simply the lesser of two evils. I am glad it's not me taking responsibility for the decision.


----------



## kingrollo (21 Oct 2020)

C R said:


> The vulnerable assessment is even more complex than that. I am 48, reasonably fit and healthy, but type 1 diabetic, so not at higher risk of catching covid, but at higher risk if I were to catch it. In normal circumstances I would not fall in the "would have died in a few months anyway" group. But by the Hamburg professor accounting method I would not have died of COVID if I were to catch it and die of it. Like me many others with other* chronic non evident conditions.*
> 
> We have three school age children, and my wife can't work from home. How do I protect myself. Find a spot in the woods to pitch a tent and use our cat to shuttle food parcels to me?



Thats an excellent phrase - I wish the media and scientists etc - would pick up on that. It seems a massive flaw have a group of people lumped in with "Underlying Health conditions" - When despite those conditions we are not in any way ill and lead active lives ....where are the stats for those people ? - what is the prognosis for me and many others with UHC that are well managed ? ......nowhere ! informally we are thought of as "Would have died anyway"


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## kingrollo (21 Oct 2020)

I think if you are over 50 and have a UHC - the gov't should give you a free Suzuki 750, and a Bat out Hell CD - on the condition you undertake no training and don't wear any safety gear.


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## raleighnut (21 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> I think if you are over 50 and have a UHC - the gov't should give you a free Suzuki 750, and a Bat out Hell CD - on the condition you undertake no training and don't wear any safety gear.


Can I have one of the new 350 Jawa cafe racers instead,


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> I think if you are over 50 and have a UHC - the gov't should give you a free Suzuki 750, and a Bat out Hell CD - on the condition you undertake no training and don't wear any safety gear.



I wasn't aware you need training and safety gear to listen to a _Bat out of Hell_ CD... Doesn't surprise me, mind.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (21 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Were you OK to WFH, or did you have to take extra hols. My employer is WFH if you can, if you can't then take leave or unpaid hols.


I was ok to WFH although I still have holidays left over


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (22 Oct 2020)

Does anyone know how the signing in thing works in Scotland ? eg some of the Edinburgh libraries have started to reopen but they are insisting on you signing in as you enter. So does that mean that during the time of your visit if anyone anywhere in the building subsequently tests positive then everyone in the building at the time will need to isolate for 2 weeks ? Even though most people in the building will not have been within 2m of the positive case for even a second never mind 15 minutes.


----------



## vickster (22 Oct 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Does anyone know how the signing in thing works in Scotland ? eg some of the Edinburgh libraries have started to reopen but they are insisting on you signing in as you enter. So does that mean that during the time of your visit if anyone anywhere in the building subsequently tests positive then everyone in the building at the time will need to isolate for 2 weeks ? Even though most people in the building will not have been within 2m of the positive case for even a second never mind 15 minutes.


This tells you about the Scottish NHS app assuming that’s what they are using
https://protect.scot/how-it-works


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## Flick of the Elbow (22 Oct 2020)

vickster said:


> This tells you about the Scottish NHS app assuming that’s what they are using
> https://protect.scot/how-it-works


No this has nothing to do with the app. There's no mention of the app on the libraries website. Nor do I have the app.


----------



## vickster (22 Oct 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> No this has nothing to do with the app. There's no mention of the app on the libraries website. Nor do I have the app.


Well you’d need to download it if they are using the app. I don’t know what else they’d be using being a municipal building, pretty much everywhere around here is using it, just a QR code to scan at the entrance, gym, shops, hairdresser, hospital).
Why not just phone your local library to ask and then you’d know for sure


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (22 Oct 2020)

This is what the library’s FAQ says


> NHS Scotland may ask us for details of those individuals who were present. If you were near someone at the library who tests positive for Coronavirus, NHS Scotland will get in touch


The question is how could they know if you were near someone ?? My concern is that they will just take blanket action and tell everyone to self isolate. “If in doubt, flat out” as it were.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (22 Oct 2020)

vickster said:


> Well you’d need to download it if they are using the app. I don’t know what else they’d be using being a municipal building, pretty much everywhere around here is using it, just a QR code to scan at the entrance, gym, shops, hairdresser, hospital).
> Why not just phone your local library to ask and then you’d know for sure


I wouldn’t know who to ring. The library will just refer me to NHS Scotland. The library is simply collecting details and passing them on. They won’t know how NHS Scotland is using them.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (22 Oct 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Does anyone know how the signing in thing works in Scotland ? eg some of the Edinburgh libraries have started to reopen but they are insisting on you signing in as you enter. So does that mean that during the time of your visit if anyone anywhere in the building subsequently tests positive then everyone in the building at the time will need to isolate for 2 weeks ? Even though most people in the building will not have been within 2m of the positive case for even a second never mind 15 minutes.



Ring them and ask?


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (22 Oct 2020)

The gov.scot page simply says


> The contact tracing service would use the information provided by a business or organisation, relevant to a positive case's whereabouts during the infectious period, to inform the process of identifying close contacts where this is a risk of infection. There is no circumstance in which establishments should use the data to directly contact visitors, customers or staff, even in the event of a known outbreak within premises. Health protection teams will decide on a case-by-case basis on what follow-up action to take.


Case by case sounds good but in the current prevalence, 1000 new cases a week in Lothian, I can’t imagine it's going to be anything other than blanket.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

Surely the number of people allowed in buildings are limited so that social distancing can be adhered too ? Reduce the risk. Funnily enough there are 5 folk isolating in another company building through west. 1 is positive , his two shift mates are isolating no symptoms but two others were also contacted by track and trace and also asked to isolate. They are adamant they have been in no close contact !


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## nickyboy (22 Oct 2020)

We are currently in T2, but just across the border from Gtr Manchester which will be T3 as of tonight. We are also on a trainline directly from Gtr Manchester (about 30 minutes from the city centre)

Much talk on socials about the likelihood of groups of T3 residents coming to our town this weekend to go to the pub. Landlords already saying they will only serve known locals. Discussion on how to marshal the train station (it would be very easy to identify groups coming for a night out)

We are, after all, a local town for local people


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## vickster (22 Oct 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Surely the number of people allowed in buildings are limited so that social distancing can be adhered too ? Reduce the risk. Funnily enough there are 5 folk isolating in another company building through west. 1 is positive , his two shift mates are isolating no symptoms but two others were also contacted by track and trace and also asked to isolate. They are adamant they have been in no close contact !


Do they not share facilities such as toilets or kitchens?


----------



## vickster (22 Oct 2020)

All clear here...swab tested on Friday on entry to Jersey for a long weekend, negative (luckily or I would have had to isolate there for 2 weeks !!)
and again on Tuesday in advance of hospital admission, negative and self isolating since (other than to put the bins out  )


----------



## fossyant (22 Oct 2020)

nickyboy said:


> We are currently in T2, but just across the border from Gtr Manchester which will be T3 as of tonight. We are also on a trainline directly from Gtr Manchester (about 30 minutes from the city centre)
> 
> Much talk on socials about the likelihood of groups of T3 residents coming to our town this weekend to go to the pub. Landlords already saying they will only serve known locals. Discussion on how to marshal the train station (it would be very easy to identify groups coming for a night out)
> 
> We are, after all, a local town for local people



I could just cycle over the gated border ! Or I'll head to New Mills, or Strines or a few pubs in Mellor.  Given where I am, despite T3, probably has very similar infection rates to High Peak. Not sure the bumpkins would be happy if it was the other way round !

TBH, not been to the pub in an evening since all this started.


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## fossyant (22 Oct 2020)

And the news 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-54642999


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## classic33 (22 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> And the news
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-54642999


Fair play to them.
Now a few more like them will be needed.


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## lane (22 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Interesting points. I will in all likelihood be travelling into a tier 3 area most week days for work. At the weekend should I avoid my usual cycle routes that travel into the area?



Luckily manged to answer my own question

"People in lower risk areas can travel through high risk areas “as part of a longer journey”. 

So if I start the ride at home (tier 2) ride through neighboring Nottingham (soon to be tier 3) and end up back home in tier 2 I am all good because it is part of a longer journey.


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## lane (22 Oct 2020)

nickyboy said:


> We are currently in T2, but just across the border from Gtr Manchester which will be T3 as of tonight. We are also on a trainline directly from Gtr Manchester (about 30 minutes from the city centre)
> 
> Much talk on socials about the likelihood of groups of T3 residents coming to our town this weekend to go to the pub. Landlords already saying they will only serve known locals. Discussion on how to marshal the train station (it would be very easy to identify groups coming for a night out)
> 
> We are, after all, a local town for local people



Remember when Leicester was locked down early on (due to having an infection rate which by current standards was laughably low) and Nottingham police said they would be at the train station to stop anyone from Leicester coming for a night out. When Nottingham goes into tier 3 next week Leicester can repay the favor. What goes around and all that.


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## DaveReading (22 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Luckily manged to answer my own question
> 
> "People in lower risk areas can travel through high risk areas “as part of a longer journey”.
> 
> So if I start the ride at home (tier 2) ride through neighboring Nottingham (soon to be tier 3) and end up back home in tier 2 I am all good because it is part of a longer journey.



But you mustn't get off your bike in the Tier 3 zone.


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## DCLane (23 Oct 2020)

Son no. 1's having to self-isolate as one of the 50 people in his socially-distanced lecture's Covid-19 positive.


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## IaninSheffield (23 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> Son no. 1's having to self-isolate as one of the 50 people in his socially-distanced lecture's Covid-19 positive.


Keeping fingers crossed for him.
I'd be interested to hear what the preference would be of someone having to navigate those troubled waters. Would he be happier to attend all sessions virtually (if that's indeed possible), or to attend f2f with the risk, and now outcome, that that presents? Or some other permutation? Must be an incredibly tough choice.


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## lane (23 Oct 2020)

It's interesting that in school and college where they are not socially distanced they very rarely send a whole class of 30 home to isolate it's normally a handful.


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## DCLane (23 Oct 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Keeping fingers crossed for him.
> I'd be interested to hear what the preference would be of someone having to navigate those troubled waters. Would he be happier to attend all sessions virtually (if that's indeed possible), or to attend f2f with the risk, and now outcome, that that presents? Or some other permutation? Must be an incredibly tough choice.



It appears it's the house-mate of someone on another course that's tested positive, but they sit in a shared lecture theatre. So the whole course has been shut down plus the other course - over 100 students.

Most teaching was already online so they've moved everything online for now. However he's 3rd year with workshops to do: they will have to find ways of doing that.


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## Julia9054 (23 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> It appears it's the house-mate of someone on another course that's tested positive, but they sit in a shared lecture theatre. So the whole course has been shut down plus the other course - over 100 students.
> 
> Most teaching was already online so they've moved everything online for now. However he's 3rd year with workshops to do: they will have to find ways of doing that.


Seems a little over cautious to me


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## DCLane (23 Oct 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Seems a little over cautious to me



My response to him was it's a panicked over-reaction as they were already well spaced out. His university (Lincoln) tends to do this.

We're calling over to him on the way back from the national hillclimb in Reading: he can sit at his front door and we'll sit in the open hatchback of our Tepee about 10 feet apart.


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## Unkraut (24 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> What does "more normality " actually mean? Be specific please.


An amber warning light went on when you posted a link with a 'scientific consensus'. That said, they are saying much the same as I would (or vice versa!):
_The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems *so life can return to near-normal *without the need for generalised restrictions. _My bold.


roubaixtuesday said:


> So how, exactly will this threat be controlled in your future scenario? Be specific.


Fortunately, for all concerned, I haven't been elected to have to make these difficult decisions. I don't envy those who have.

I would question whether general lockdowns are really necessary. For example, not allowing holiday accommodation to be booked when staying in such accommodation is not a driver of infection. Severe restrictions only to be made where there is a severe infection rate and for activities where infection is likely. Looks at the moment to be small groups of people getting together indoors.

Don't enforce the wearing of masks outdoors if this isn't where you can get infected. Cycling is safe!

Keep as much open as possible. Theatres, cinemas and restaurants won't survive another general lockdown.

Allow visits to elderly relatives where a quick test has shown relatives visiting are negative.

Rigidly enforce the most effective means of suppressing the spread rather than attempting to micro-manage everyone's behaviour. Don't drive a segment of the population into rebellion. 

Build up a sense of trust and responsibility between govt and population. That latter ultimately is responsible for containing the spread rather than the government. Take a calculated risk to see how much normal life you can keep, but without using people as scientific guinea-pigs.

Without making the virus seem harmless in any way, try to reduce the level of fear in the population. Avoid panic. I said earlier on I could get it and could die from it, but I have checked the figures and since the beginning of the pandemic my age bracket means I have a 99.3% chance of surviving the virus. Doesn't eliminate the danger, but does put it in perspective. Since I have not yet reached retirement age, the danger from the virus is lower for those of working age than the elderly, so be careful not to wreck the economy by excessive measures.

Do you have to close schools down the minute one pupil or teacher is tested positive? Schools have not yet become places with super-spreaders.

This is all to some extent a reflection of the various views and approaches being taken here by the virology community, though of course not without debate. Overall this reflects the approach here and I hope it continues.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> An amber warning light went on when you posted a link with a 'scientific consensus'. That said, they are saying much the same as I would (or vice versa!):
> _The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems *so life can return to near-normal *without the need for generalised restrictions. _My bold.
> 
> Fortunately, for all concerned, I haven't been elected to have to make these difficult decisions. I don't envy those who have.
> ...



Some of your argument goes against the scientific evidence and some of it is fantasy. Overall I fear your approach is likely to do more economic damage in the long run - although it seems we are now past the point of no return for both further significant economic damage and also tens of thousand more lost lives if not quite possibly running into six figures. Certainly when we add first wave an second wave it will be well over 100,000 without a doubt. At the same time we have massive economic damage already and more to come. The argument that we need to balance lost lives against the economy is at the heart of why we have suffered massively on both fronts and will continue to do so. There is ample evidence from elsewhere that you either do badly on both front or you do well on both fronts - mostly dependent on policy choices. You cannot do well on the economy and badly on last lives - or show me an example of where this is so?

Lets deal with specifics. Schools add 0.5 to the R compared with 0.2 for pubs. I am not aware of any sector which adds more to the R although I would imaging the universities have but with changes taking place they will probably add less in future.

Testing before you go to see a relative is the idea of moonshot which is currently viewed as fantasy by most scientists.

The only way to protect the economy, which also incidentally protects lives which is great, is to get cases down to near zero and then keep them there. China, Vietnam and new Zealand have manged this. It requires draconian restrictions for a period of time and then severe restrictions in any areas as soon as infections rise. There is only one area since the lock-down was lifted that has managed to go from what was effectively a tier 3 + back to a tier 2. That is Leicester where more serve restrictions where introduced while infections were still relatively low. That is the only policy that has been shown to work in this country or anywhere in the entire world so to me that is good evidence for that approach.

We have wasted what was achieved all that was achieved with the original lock down which is a great shame.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

Just to back up what I have said on schools and the current situation and where we are heading I have just seen this on the BBC. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558


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## roubaixtuesday (24 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> An amber warning light went on when you posted a link with a 'scientific consensus'. That said, they are saying much the same as I would (or vice versa!):
> _The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems *so life can return to near-normal *without the need for generalised restrictions. _My bold.
> 
> Fortunately, for all concerned, I haven't been elected to have to make these difficult decisions. I don't envy those who have.
> ...



Seems that essentially you agree with restricting to lower the rate so track and trace will work, but don't want "excessive measures".

As current measures aren't working, but you also believe we should be less restrictive, this leads me to conclude you're simply engaging in wishful thinking.


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## byegad (24 Oct 2020)

Everyone has an opinion. The gibberment is getting possibly the best advice available, and, being scientific, that has changed as our understanding grew.
What is apparent is that other counties have done rather better than specifically England but including the other countries of the UK. 
Certainly Dominic Scummings and several others in political life, or their families, have not helped giving (some) people the excuse they were looking for to ignore 'the rules'.
It has become very obvious that some people chose to ignore rules either through ignorance or malice. 
An example.
Lady Byegad had a follow up appointment at RVI after her discharge from rehabilitation after her brain abscess operation. I took her into out-patients because she needs a wheelchair to cover any distance. She went for an MRI while I sat in the waiting room with my mask on. Two older ladies, my kind of age, came into the room. Neither had a mask on and one went to sit next to me. Advice was to keep 2m apart, and wear a mask in indoor spaces and specially hospitals, so I asked her to move saying 2 meters you know! She did so without a murmer.
One of the ladies was called, so she stood up and put on a mask from her pocket and went for her X-Ray. She was soon back, without a mask, and off they went. It was obvious at least one of them knew she should be wearing a mask, but couldn't be bothered.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

I am sure the Government are getting reasonable advice. The fact they are clearly not following it is another matter.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Oct 2020)

Masks have now become normal here in any public building, on trains, and in pedestrianised streets. I noticed my local cooperative bank (local as in "Cooperative bank for the north Breisgau region") has graphic on their ATM asking us to wear a mask, and they've added a motto to it: "Morgen wird kommen" or "Tomorrow will come".


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## Unkraut (24 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Some of your argument goes against the scientific evidence and some of it is fantasy.


Pretty well all of it is based on views expressed by suitably qualified virologists, so whilst no-one should ever think them infallible, I don't think any of it is actually fantasy.


lane said:


> Certainly when we add first wave an second wave it will be well over 100,000 [deaths] without a doubt.


Arriving at a death rate seems to me to be difficult. The death total here has just gone through the 10 000 level. I think comparing that with Britain is pointless inasmuch as this cannot possibly be comparing like with like.

The point in the second wave is how many infected will get ill enough to need hospital treatment. In the initial wave this was about 5%. I think about 2% have needed intensive care. These rates may go down, because as those infected are ever younger, the incidence of serious illness as a proportion will decrease. This doesn't mean the healthcare system could never become overloaded, but at present this is not known; only time will tell. The infection numbers in and of themselves are not decisive.


lane said:


> Testing before you go to see a relative is the idea of moonshot which is currently viewed as fantasy by most scientists.


It's been mooted here as a possibility. The quick tests could be used. It might mean having to be more specific in who gets tested, since resources are obviously limited.


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## srw (24 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> quick test





Unkraut said:


> Build up a sense of trust and responsibility between govt and population


I've pulled out two things from your optimistic, but somewhat naive, post. I could have pulled out rather more. It's very obvious that you haven't spent a great deal of time in the UK recently. 

With a couple of obvious partial exceptions, every single government since 1979 has systematically and deliberately undermined the trust of the population that government is a good way to solve problems. Despite the obvious truth that government is the only way to solve many problems. 

The result is a population that doesn't trust politicians and a government that is incompetent. You can't change 40 years of systematic messaging inside a few weeks. 

Nevertheless, even now, after 40 years of being undermined, the basic structure of the state bureaucracy in the UK is so robust that if it were properly funded and given the authority to do so it would be able to set up a rapid testing regime inside a few weeks. 

The fact that it isn't being given that chance is extraordinary. It's not only economically stupid it's also politically stupid. Johnson's legacy will be as the PM who farked up pandemic response.


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## srw (24 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The death total here has just gone through the 10 000 level. I think comparing that with Britain is pointless inasmuch as this cannot possibly be comparing like with like.


Britain and Germany are two countries with similar wealth levels, similar social and economic attitudes, similar political centres of gravity, similar education levels, similar geographical inequalities and similar populations. 

How can comparing them be not comparing like with like?


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## Andy in Germany (24 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> Britain and Germany are two countries with similar wealth levels, similar social and economic attitudes, similar political centres of gravity, similar education levels, similar geographical inequalities and similar populations.
> 
> How can comparing them be not comparing like with like?



We have a very different federal system of government, with a lot more decisions taken at a local state level rather than federally in Berlin: each state has a president and government and our upper house represents the states in federal decisions. This meant the C-19 response was much more localised and state governments can decide a lot more about how to respond and how to finance their responses.

Germany has a more comprehensive social security system and the economic system reflects social market economics rather than the free market economics favoured by recent UK governments.

Also the healthcare system is financed very differently and is much less dependent on taxation or central government: we pay for health insurance which isn't cheap, and is administered via several companies, some of which are government owned but still operate fairly independently. Hospitals are a mix of privately operated and local government owned so each can set its own priorities and they tend to be smaller and serve a smaller geographical area.

I'm not saying any of this is necessarily better or worse, but it means that we have a different approach and I think it created a greater trust in the government responses because they're seen as local rather than imposed from one central authority.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> Pretty well all of it is based on views expressed by suitably qualified virologists, so whilst no-one should ever think them infallible, I don't think any of it is actually fantasy.
> 
> Arriving at a death rate seems to me to be difficult. The death total here has just gone through the 10 000 level. I think comparing that with Britain is pointless inasmuch as this cannot possibly be comparing like with like.
> 
> ...



Initially hospital admission were lower due to younger people getting Covid. Where I live the hospital is currently filing one ward a day with new Covid patients most people 50+ because it inevitably spreads from younger to older and inevitably some of them will now die.

Can you provide an example of where economic damage has been limited by letting the virus spread more widely through less restrictions, versus the 3 examples I provided of life returning to normal by adopting more stringent measures.

The quick tests have been mooted here as well but are not reality.


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## srw (24 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> We have a very different federal system of government, with a lot more decisions taken at a local state level rather than federally in Berlin: each state has a president and government and our upper house represents the states in federal decisions. This meant the C-19 response was much more localised and state governments can decide a lot more about how to respond and how to finance their responses.
> 
> Germany has a more comprehensive social security system and the economic system reflects social market economics rather than the free market economics favoured by recent UK governments.
> 
> ...


Nevertheless, they are two very similar countries. 

Comparing them, and learning why Germany's response has been sure-footed - and the reasons you cite have a lot to do with it - and the UK's cack-handed is exactly what those of us in the UK should do. As should the French, the Spanish and the Italians!


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## Rusty Nails (24 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> Britain and Germany are two countries with similar wealth levels, similar social and economic attitudes, similar political centres of gravity, similar education levels, similar geographical inequalities and similar populations.
> 
> How can comparing them be not comparing like with like?



Seriously, I blame the war! Germany had such shock that they had to start again, rebuilding their country, including their political systems.

We, as the "winners", once the initial tranche of nationalisation had been done, just complacently slipped back into the same old political systems and old tribal enmities.

What on earth can we learn from the Germans, when we have people who were born, bred and privately schooled to govern running the country for most of the time since 1945.


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## srw (24 Oct 2020)

Exactly how deadly is Covid-19? Despite the wishful thinking of some conspiracists who data-mine Swedish stats in optimism, I think most of know the answer to that one.






Hospital admissions is a leading indicator of deaths. Even allowing for the fact that doctors have got much better at treating the disease I can't see the second wave peaking at much less than 400 to 500 deaths per day. I'd be absolutely delighted to be wrong, but given the economic and personal misery caused by death I rather suspect the effective case-control experiment we're launching into with four different approaches in the four home nations will demonstrate that Boris Johnson has picked the wrong strategy.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> Exactly how deadly is Covid-19? Despite the wishful thinking of some conspiracists who data-mine Swedish stats in optimism, I think most of know the answer to that one.
> 
> View attachment 554295
> 
> Hospital admissions is a leading indicator of deaths. Even allowing for the fact that doctors have got much better at treating the disease I can't see the second wave peaking at much less than 400 to 500 deaths per day. I'd be absolutely delighted to be wrong, but given the economic and personal misery caused by death I rather suspect the effective case-control experiment we're launching into with four different approaches in the four home nations will demonstrate that Boris Johnson has picked the wrong strategy.



Wrong thread


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## marinyork (24 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> The quick tests have been mooted here as well but are not reality.



As Tom73 said elsewhere the quick tests are there for extra capacity, basically in the UK's case going from 300,000 to 500,000 tests a day. It's also a matter of timescales, people aren't disputing it'll happen, just that it's normally a 2-4 months behind schedule that politicians say if you look back on these things. PHE and the MHRA are also far more restrictive than some countries outside of Europe in terms of how accurate they want to tests to be, what evidence will be accepted and so on. Most of us on the forum talk most of the time about timescales of a week or two ahead.

Talking about a completely different timescale, the second half of winter, yes the quick tests may well be here then. By spring and summer far, far more likely. It's not going to get life back to normal, but it'll be interesting to see what environments/sectors the UK chooses to use these tests as tools to help things along a little bit.

Here we now have tier-3 where church services and various other allowed indoor activities are going along like the clappers. 

A lot of people in my circles are talking about Christmas, somehow saying it'll be normal, perhaps just out of just pure blind hope and something to look forward to.


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## srw (24 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Wrong thread


This thread is about how we're doing in response to the Coronavirus pandemic. How I'm doing is focussing on real information


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## marinyork (24 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> This thread is about how we're doing in response to the Coronavirus pandemic. How I'm doing is focussing on real information



I think that was a rare bit of sense of humour by YukonBoy, since the same thing got posted on the other thread with an exciting fanciful link to argue about, for a few minutes anyway to keep you busy and out of trouble.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> A lot of people in my circles are talking about Christmas, somehow saying it'll be normal, perhaps just out of just pure blind hope and something to look forward to.



Blimey I didn't realise that. I thought it was just Boris - assumed most normal people had more sense.


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## marinyork (24 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Blimey I didn't realise that. I thought it was just Boris - assumed most normal people had more sense.



One conversation I had this week a friend has managed to organise something for Christmas. That's kind of nice, really glad for them, except it probably isn't going to happen like they think. Even if it does happen it doesn't do anything else for the very large numbers that live alone who are young or who will be separated from families/partners/don't have one or both of the aforementioned.

Just on cue the Sun's been writing about the rapid tests again! Mutterings of more trials, bigger trials and you guessed it Christmas was mentioned.


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## lane (24 Oct 2020)

Christmas is two months away. I can't see things won't be worse by then than they are now. Hope I am wrong but i will be astounded if I am.


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## marinyork (24 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Christmas is two months away. I can't see things won't be worse by then than they are now. Hope I am wrong but i will be astounded if I am.



Most people don't watch the news any more so they see neither the numbers, nor if they were even more interested than that various models/scientists talking about the peak in Liverpool being 4-6 weeks from now and much of the rest of the country the peak being, well around Christmas and New Year actually. A lot of people here seem to have found tier 2 to tier 3 confusing either thinking everything was banned, or a lot of other people thinking that you could still meet outside in groups of six in hospitality venues (which you can't, but tune into the news tomorrow and we'll see what really happens).


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## Adam4868 (24 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> One conversation I had this week a friend has managed to organise something for Christmas. That's kind of nice, really glad for them, except it probably isn't going to happen like they think. Even if it does happen it doesn't do anything else for the very large numbers that live alone who are young or who will be separated from families/partners/don't have one or both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Just on cue the Sun's been writing about the rapid tests again! Mutterings of more trials, bigger trials and you guessed it Christmas was mentioned.


Dare not even mention Xmas in our house.We usually go to Ireland to partners family/parents.Its looking like Xmas is cancelled this year ? Can't see it happening can anyone else.Saying that my dad is home from hospital after 11 day stay,slowly recovering from Covid.Its took it out of him and my mum.Its hard there's not much aftercare out there.Lucky they have me to help at the moment.Must be a nightmare for anyone living alone with no family support.


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## lane (25 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> Most people don't watch the news any more so they see neither the numbers, nor if they were even more interested than that various models/scientists talking about the peak in Liverpool being 4-6 weeks from now and much of the rest of the country the peak being, well around Christmas and New Year actually. A lot of people here seem to have found tier 2 to tier 3 confusing either thinking everything was banned, or a lot of other people thinking that you could still meet outside in groups of six in hospitality venues.



Agree most people find the tiers confusing and to be honest they are a bit - I was trying to find something out and gave up.


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## marinyork (25 Oct 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Must be a nightmare for anyone living alone with no family support.



I worry a great deal because the odd thing dotted around the second half of December would be odd catch ups with friends at houses or hospitality venues, which from the point of view of many will effectively be banned (yes you can meet outside in parks but how many will do that). This will be an unusually long block of time for some people. Or other things like support groups which are pretty much wiped out at the moment. Or the support worker system and services that are so stretched right now. That's looking at it 2 months ahead. In various geographic locations on this forum in 2-3 weeks things are going to be looking a lot worse than they are now and we will be looking the 5-6 weeks ahead of that with an even grimmer perspective.


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## lane (25 Oct 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Dare not even mention Xmas in our house.We usually go to Ireland to partners family/parents.Its looking like Xmas is cancelled this year ? Can't see it happening can anyone else.Saying that my dad is home from hospital after 11 day stay,slowly recovering from Covid.Its took it out of him and my mum.Its hard there's not much aftercare out there.Lucky they have me to help at the moment.Must be a nightmare for anyone living alone with no family support.



Good news he is out of hospital hope he continues to improve. Your right he is lucky he has some support.


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## Unkraut (25 Oct 2020)

srw said:


> It's very obvious that you haven't spent a great deal of time in the UK recently.
> With a couple of obvious partial exceptions, every single government since 1979 has systematically and deliberately undermined the trust of the population that government is a good way to solve problems.


Your first sentence is fair comment, I left in 1997, though still very much in touch. Nevertheless, I have been more than appalled at the way the Johnson government has handled this. The laissez-faire approach at the beginning was a catastrophic mistake.

I also agree with you that Johnson is a symptom of a malaise that goes back decades. Whether too much or too little government is a topic for another day.

On the other hand, perhaps there is a difference in mentality amongst the population, where Germans have been persuaded of the purpose of obeying the hygiene requirements and mostly do so (the effect of Italy) whereas in Britain this is seen as heavy government setting out rules. Cf. Daily Wail commenters. @Andy in Germany do you think there is anything in this?


srw said:


> Britain and Germany ... How can comparing them be not comparing like with like?


As far as the number of deaths goes 10 003 for Germany and 44 571 for the UK is a huge difference. Germany has a bigger population, on the other hand Britain has tested far more people, and has more than caught up in this regard. Have people died with covid in Germany that have not been picked up, but would have using the British metric? The difference is so great I find it difficult to believe we are comparing like with like.

Another difference when it comes to govt trust is that with a written constitution, there is a procedure to call the govt to account. The health law that allows the govt to suspend the basic freedoms guaranteed in the constitution stipulates a date must be given when measures have to be lifted. The courts can and have rejected govt measures where the govt couldn't prove they were commensurate in dealing with the spread of the virus. Banning people from staying in hotels (Beherbergungsverbot!) has just been rejected up north, as this restricts freedom of movement and hotels are not at present where the disease is spreading. Lot of dissent about this elsewhere.

Germany still has time to get it wrong - we are only at the beginning of the pandemic. Warnings here about not getting proud and complacent. Tracking and tracing here is no longer able to keep up with the numbers, and is having to prioritise. The NHS might not be doing quite so badly on this. The hotline here isn't exactly good, and the bureaucratic right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing.


Rusty Nails said:


> Seriously, I blame the war! Germany had such shock that they had to start again, rebuilding their country, including their political systems.


Don't forget after WW2 Britain had Attlee's reforming government.

One of the curses of Britain is the class system (if you don't believe me, think of Conservative government by messed up former public schoolboys!), and this started being seriously dismantled in Germany after the _First_ World War.


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## marinyork (25 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> On the other hand, perhaps there is a difference in mentality amongst the population, where Germans have been persuaded of the purpose of obeying the hygiene requirements and mostly do so (the effect of Italy) whereas in Britain this is seen as heavy government setting out rules. Cf. Daily Wail commenters. @Andy in Germany do you think there is anything in this?



There is a huge difference in the population. It's not really any coincidence that srw would write such a thing. He is in the group that the UK population has utter contempt for so he doesn't see a bit of it.

A better comparison of population attitudes for the UK would be Italy. A very sceptical population that says one thing and does another and everyone is in it for themselves. Ironically enough at the start of the pandemic italian tv was full of warnings and gloating at the stupid germans as they saw them who were not taking coronavirus seriously.


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## raleighnut (25 Oct 2020)

marinyork said:


> I worry a great deal because the odd thing dotted around the second half of December would be odd catch ups with friends at houses or hospitality venues, which from the point of view of many will effectively be banned (yes you can meet outside in parks but how many will do that). This will be an unusually long block of time for some people. Or other things like support groups which are pretty much wiped out at the moment. Or the support worker system and services that are so stretched right now. That's looking at it 2 months ahead. In various geographic locations on this forum in 2-3 weeks things are going to be looking a lot worse than they are now and we will be looking the 5-6 weeks ahead of that with an even grimmer perspective.


TBH I'm actually looking forward to Chriggy this year, most years I end up having to go to a 'family' get together where I have to pretend to be 'normal' i.e. not a cyclist. Hopefully it'll be just me and Maz this year although if her Son and his Wife/kids are covid free by then they might come round in the morning for my Xmas brekkie/brunch of Crispy Toast* with Cream Cheese and Smoked Salmon and maybe some Capers and Dill on top. 

* the secret is to leave the Toast in the Toaster until it cools before lightly buttering and adding the topping or it goes soggy.


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## Andy in Germany (25 Oct 2020)

Unkraut said:


> On the other hand, perhaps there is a difference in mentality amongst the population, where Germans have been persuaded of the purpose of obeying the hygiene requirements and mostly do so (the effect of Italy) whereas in Britain this is seen as heavy government setting out rules. Cf. Daily Wail commenters. @Andy in Germany do you think there is anything in this?



I think that's fair: the way Merkel (and to be fair our state president in Baden-Württemberg) presented the lockdown was far more empathetic and at least appears to have some scientific base, and as you said, these rules are subject to constitutional limits and have been successfully challenged by state governments, so there's a feeling the government can't just use this to control everyone.

I think that the fact lockdown decisions are much more localised as well is important.


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## fossyant (25 Oct 2020)

There are many who are still not following rules. Friends daughter has gone into Manchester last night as a group of 6 (from 6 different households) and rented an appartment to stay over. Breaks every rule. Some don't give a stuff. I'm thinking why I should stick to the rules TBH, I'm not at risk, and 'may' have had it. Grrrr.

PS I'll stick to it. Planning on staying over in a hotel in Manchester next weekend - why, we need to get out, and we'll walk round the City's Halloween Monster trail (no kids with us), then go for a 'proper meal' not just a thinly disguised 'substantial meal' (I've already decided where) then retire to the hotel room. Next day, there is an art trail that's just been launched, so we can have another walk. Also means we can arange for my son to drop us off without using public transport, and collect us the next day. Hotel prices are very cheap at the moment.


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## MrGrumpy (25 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> There are many who are still not following rules. Friends daughter has gone into Manchester last night as a group of 6 (from 6 different households) and rented an appartment to stay over. Breaks every rule. Some don't give a stuff. I'm thinking why I should stick to the rules TBH, I'm not at risk, and 'may' have had it. Grrrr.



Surprised nope , and that’s another reason why things won’t be eased anytime soon !?


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## wafter (25 Oct 2020)

Totally anecdotal and unrepresententive but during the first wave I knew one person directly who got it, since the latest wave hit I know of four more and possibly a fifth (three being connected - a mate, wife and child) . All (excluding the child) are in their late '30s and thankfully while unpleasant the symptoms don't appear to be severe / life threatening in any of the cases.

From my tiny, totally subjective viewpoint it seems a lot closer to home this time, although given the relatively low-severity of the symptoms I suspect this growth is more a function of increased testing than anything else.


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## srw (25 Oct 2020)

How am I getting on with the pandemic? I'm getting increasingly pissed off with people claiming it's nothing out of the ordinary for deaths. They might be extremely gullible, extremely stupid or have an ulterior motive.

I've taken the legend off this chart, of age-standardised mortality (deaths) over the last 10 years. See if you can work out which year is 2020. As you're doing it, remember which year in the last 10 years has been subject to very significant restrictions which have had the effect of significantly reducting infection and death.






Source: https://www.actuaries.org.uk/system...ality-monitor-Week-41-2020-v01-2020-10-20.pdf
These guys are quite literally paid, by organisations whose profit depends on it, to understand death statistically.

These guys are paid by the UK government to take an independent view of statistics. In case this chart looks familiar, yes I posted it a few weeks ago. It's impossible to disguise a time series chart, but there are two pandemic years represented on this one. You might, just, be able to spot the one that occurred before the advent of modern medicine. The other one is represented by the solid black line. It represents a year where a significant amount of death has been supressed by government action.





https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31august2020


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## DCLane (25 Oct 2020)

Called to see son in Lincoln on the way back from the national hillclimb. Now we kept our distance to protect him, given he's got to self-isolate so we left a food parcel on the wall (chocolate cake, brownies and a large bottle of apple juice from a farm shop) and had a distanced discussion.

However his house-mate, who is also supposed to be self-isolating, had his parents visit him in the house for the day. They live in Manchester


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## Unkraut (25 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Can you provide an example of where economic damage has been limited by letting the virus spread more widely through less restrictions,


I'm not sure anybody is advocating letting the virus run rampant except perhaps Dr Bhakdi so beloved of Peter Hitchens and his disciples. Hasn't gained much traction here, but has also been sidelined by much of the media. If Bhakdi is right, much of what is being advocated to contain the virus is pointless, if he is wrong he is being highly irresponsible.


lane said:


> versus the 3 examples I provided of life returning to normal by adopting more stringent measures.


The key word here is _stringent_. The measures must be specific and aim at the real drivers of the spread. If you want to argue for a general lockdown, fair enough, but the long-term economic damage inevitable with this will have a knock-on effect on health, and the prosperity needed for the well-being of a nation. A lengthy recession, mass unemployment. The job of politics is to carefully weigh all this up.

Aside from that, people only being human are already fed up with restrictions, and excessive and heavy-handed implementation could turn them into rebels who won't follow advice. There is plenty of that already. The biggest single factor in containing the spread is distancing, hygiene and masks, and both in the UK and here there is a sizable proportion of the population who don't see the need for this. If, however, you could get them on board with this, then it won't or at least might not be necessary to close pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc. that would provide some relief from a restricted way of life, and at the same time helps to preserve jobs across the economy.


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## Landsurfer (27 Oct 2020)

Just a quick catch up from the ONS.
Deaths, England and Wales, 2nd Oct - 9th Oct .. 9954.
Covid related .. 401.
Covid related, under 65, .. 34.
Population ..66,796,800


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Just a quick catch up from the ONS.
> Deaths, England and Wales, 2nd Oct - 9th Oct .. 9954.
> Covid related .. 401.
> Covid related, under 65, .. 34.
> Population ..66,796,800


*
Mod note:*

Thanks for reposting in this thread.


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Just a quick catch up from the ONS.
> Deaths, England and Wales, 2nd Oct - 9th Oct .. 9954.
> Covid related .. 401.
> Covid related, under 65, .. 34.
> Population ..66,796,800



Good to see the measure we have in place have been mitigating the deaths from COVID although expect to see these rise substantially over the next few week. Unfortunately if you look at things over the course of a year and not a week the picture is much worse.


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## midlife (27 Oct 2020)

I think the Ons have more recent figures? 

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...es-up-53-on-last-week-ons-data-shows-12115681


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Oct 2020)

Keeping up the exercise , doing a little bit of meeting up outdoors. Haven’t met anyone indoors since first lockdown. Getting outdoors every day if only for an hour walking in the woods or countryside or a park. getting outdoors is great for relaxing and switching off / mental reset.

Went for pub lunch on Sunday now we know which ones are really making an effort. Think we’ve been to pub 4 times since lockdown started.

Missing not seeing mother but need to keep her safe.


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## fossyant (27 Oct 2020)

Just in a call with my boss, and one of his daughter's has been told to isolate for 2 weeks, so that's his half term ruined. One of my other colleagues has had to do the same with her two kids. No trips out/walks etc. Stuck in the house.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> I think the Ons have more recent figures?
> 
> http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...es-up-53-on-last-week-ons-data-shows-12115681



Still well below the peak back in April i think - so maybe that's some hope that the regional interventions are starting to work.

Albeit with a 2 week (AFAIK) drag on the death stat's being recorded.


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

[


Landsurfer said:


> Just a quick catch up from the ONS.
> Deaths, England and Wales, 2nd Oct - 9th Oct .. 9954.
> Covid related .. 401.
> Covid related, under 65, .. 34.
> Population ..66,796,800



Although the BBC appear not to agree with your figures so not sure who is correct you or the BBC. 

11:09
*UK deaths involving Covid-19 up 60% in a week*





Robert Cuffe
BBC head of statistics
Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 61%) of the deaths registered in the UK in the week of 16 October. 

Although for the BBC figure to be correct there would be 1,247 deaths in the week not 9,954 - although the BBC also says 11,928 deaths which would make it 6% of deaths not 60% so I think the BBC may be wrong and out by a factor of 10?


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Still well below the peak back in April i think - so maybe that's some hope that the regional interventions are starting to work.
> 
> Albeit with a 2 week (AFAIK) drag on the death stat's being recorded.



I would anticipate deaths will increase to at least 3,000 a week over the next 4 weeks. I believe the drag on death data is around 4 weeks.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I would anticipate deaths will increase to at least 3,000 a week over the next 4 weeks. *I believe the drag on death data is around 4 weeks.*



Is that right? I'm sure I read this morning that the death certificate reporting time lag was around 2 weeks. i only look on ONS/PHE/Gov.uk dashboard so it must be on one of those.

I'll try and look later if I get time. Or else someone else will chip in.

Either way I'm hoping that the interventions will have a pronounced effect.


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## Landsurfer (27 Oct 2020)

Interventions will have no effect .. other than to push up infections ,,, destroy the economy and wipe out the education system .... based on reports from all over the UK and Europe and WHO advice. 
I see Wee Jimmy Krankies, " 2 week circuit breaker " has entered the third week ....


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Is that right? I'm sure I read this morning that the death certificate reporting time lag was around 2 weeks. i only look on ONS/PHE/Gov.uk dashboard so it must be on one of those.
> 
> I'll try and look later if I get time. Or else someone else will chip in.
> 
> Either way I'm hoping that the interventions will have a pronounced effect.



I only say 4 weeks because there was a doctor (I think) on TV and he said from symptoms two weeks before it is serious enough to go in hospital them two weeks to die. tHerefore drag will be 4 weeks people are not normally dead two weeks after they show symptoms for the first time.

EDIT - is there is a two week drag on certificates that will be 6 weeks. So if we have 40k cases a day now (probably higher) and the mortality rate is 1% then in 4 to 6 weeks we will have 400 deaths a day or 3,000 a week as they say already "baked in".


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Is that right? I'm sure I read this morning that the death certificate reporting time lag was around 2 weeks. i only look on ONS/PHE/Gov.uk dashboard so it must be on one of those.
> 
> I'll try and look later if I get time. Or else someone else will chip in.
> 
> Either way I'm hoping that the interventions will have a pronounced effect.



Even if the interventions do have an impact I don't think they will reduce deaths below 3k per week ongoing. The reason I say this is we are already generating this number of deaths right now and quite likely more right now (albeit a lag). The R is 1.4 so cases are increasing. The restrictions are very unlikely to get the R below 1 and even if they get back to 1 we will never see any improvement on where we are now. I don't think many experts think the current restrictions will get R below 1.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I only say 4 weeks because there was a doctor (I think) on TV and he said from symptoms two weeks before it is serious enough to go in hospital them two weeks to die. tHerefore drag will be 4 weeks people are not normally dead two weeks after they show symptoms for the first time.
> 
> EDIT - is there is a two week drag on certificates that will be 6 weeks. So if we have 40k cases a day now (probably higher) and the mortality rate is 1% then in 4 to 6 weeks we will have 400 deaths a day or 3,000 a week as they say already "baked in".




This was what i read re reporting lag (from the Gov.uk dashboard site):

_Number of deaths of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations. _


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> [
> 
> 
> Although the BBC appear not to agree with your figures so not sure who is correct you or the BBC.
> ...



I've copied this and it does say 6% in brackets:

Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 6%) of the deaths registered in the UK in the week of 16 October. 

Have I missed something in your post?


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## newfhouse (27 Oct 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Interventions will have no effect


Why do you say that? 

There are arguments to be had about which interventions will work best - and they are ongoing between people with far greater expertise than you or I - but not whether to intervene at all.


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## midlife (27 Oct 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Interventions will have no effect .. other than to push up infections ,,, destroy the economy and wipe out the education system .... based on reports from all over the UK and Europe and WHO advice.
> I see Wee Jimmy Krankies, " 2 week circuit breaker " has entered the third week ....



Melbourne seems to have pushed the infection rate down by interventions. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-54654646


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I've copied this and it does say 6% in brackets:
> 
> Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 6%) of the deaths registered in the UK in the week of 16 October.
> 
> Have I missed something in your post?



This is what I copied from the BBC "Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 61%)" looks like 60% to me? Where do you copy it from? If it is my eyes the a drive to that place up north may be in order to test my eyesight.


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Melbourne seems to have pushed the infection rate down by interventions.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-54654646



Yes of course and so did we when we had the lockdown the R went to between 0.5 and 0.7. Our current restrictions are (I think) much less stringent than Melbourne. I am not saying we couldn't get the R below 1 just that what we are doing now wont achieve that. I am not a scientist so mostly going on what people like Vallance and Whitey have said. Still as a lay person if the lockdown got the R down to maybe 0.7 it seems clear that what we are doing now won't get it to 0.7, I mean that has got to be completely obvious.


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I've copied this and it does say 6% in brackets:
> 
> Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 6%) of the deaths registered in the UK in the week of 16 October.
> 
> Have I missed something in your post?



The BBC have now corrected the article.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> This is what I copied from the BBC "Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 61%)" looks like 60% to me? Where do you copy it from? If it is my eyes the a drive to that place up north may be in order to test my eyesight.



Straight off of the BBC website Robert Cuffe 11.09am today in the Live Reporting stream (it's still there):

*Covid-19 was involved in 761 (or 6%) of the deaths registered in the UK in the week of 16 October.

The latest figures published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that this figure is up sharply (61%) on the week before, but still far below the peak reached in April.*

I wonder if they messed the figures up and then corrected them twixt our respective copying sessions?

If you feel you have to do a Cummings then really, I'd rather not know about it.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> The BBC have now corrected the article.



Ha - I didn't read your post until after I had posted mine.

If only everything in life was so easy to sort out.


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## raleighnut (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Yes of course and so did we when we had the lockdown the R went to between 0.5 and 0.7. Our current restrictions are (I think) much less stringent than Melbourne. I am not saying we couldn't get the R below 1 just that what we are doing now wont achieve that. I am not a scientist so mostly going on what people like Vallance and Whitey have said. Still as a lay person if the lockdown got the R down to maybe 0.7 it seems clear that what we are doing now won't get it to 0.7, I mean that has got to be completely obvious.


Sod the 'R' number, this all started with 1 person.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Sod the 'R' number, this all started with 1 person.



Can you have an R number with only 1 infected person?


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## lane (27 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I only say 4 weeks because there was a doctor (I think) on TV and he said from symptoms two weeks before it is serious enough to go in hospital them two weeks to die. tHerefore drag will be 4 weeks people are not normally dead two weeks after they show symptoms for the first time.
> 
> EDIT - is there is a two week drag on certificates that will be 6 weeks. So if we have 40k cases a day now (probably higher) and the mortality rate is 1% then in 4 to 6 weeks we will have 400 deaths a day or 3,000 a week as they say already "baked in".



I seem to be wrong we already have 367 deaths just today - unfortunately things seem to be worse than I expected.


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## Flick of the Elbow (28 Oct 2020)

Fingers crossed it looks like the restrictions imposed a couple of weeks ago are having the desired effect here in Edinburgh.






Edit - identical restrictions taking longer to take effect a few miles away in South Lanarkshire though. Curious.


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## kingrollo (28 Oct 2020)

National lockdown in France.

Seems when not if the UK follows suit.


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## lane (28 Oct 2020)

This Government's handling of the process for putting


kingrollo said:


> National lockdown in France.
> 
> Seems when not if the UK follows suit.



100,000 cases a day in France now - we are clearly not far behind so yes I agree


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## fossyant (28 Oct 2020)

'Expected French National Lockdown'.


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## lane (28 Oct 2020)

This Government's handling of the process for putting areas into lock down is abysmal. After extensive negotiations with the councils involved it was anticipated there would be an announcement in Nottingham this week and would come into effect this week. The areas had been agreed. Now the Government has delayed things because they have decided to add more areas and need to negotiate with them. This process is taking literally weeks and in the meantime we are filling up one ward a day with Covid patients and all non essential operations are cancelled. Unlike some areas the City Council seem keen to proceed to T3 ASAP. I have no idea why this level of incompetence exists - it's as if there is no rush to do anythings as if time is not a critical factor. Surely we must have learnt something by now.


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## kingrollo (28 Oct 2020)

Its set set to tip down this weekend. Im no hero - but if I don't go out on my bike - it sends me a bit barmy ! 

In the giro a stage was shortened due to rider concerns about a lowered immune system due to cycling in the rain - is there any evidence for this ..or did they just want an extra hour in bed !


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## classic33 (28 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Its set set to tip down this weekend. Im no hero - but if I don't go out on my bike - it sends me a bit barmy !
> 
> In the giro a stage was shortened due to rider concerns about a lowered immune system due to cycling in the rain - is there any evidence for this ..or did they just want an extra hour in bed !


Evidence points the other way.
They wanted the extra hour in bed*.

*That part my opinion on the question asked.


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## numbnuts (28 Oct 2020)

Just been looking at the news and they are saying it could go up to 500 deaths per day, 
to me being an old fart it makes me feel I'm just waiting to die


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## oldworld (28 Oct 2020)

Tonight Macron is addressing the nation, everyone's expecting another lockdown.
As the UK has been following Europe expect the same in England in a few weeks


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## newfhouse (28 Oct 2020)

oldworld said:


> Tonight Macron is addressing the nation, everyone's expecting another lockdown.
> As the UK has been following Europe expect the same in England in a few weeks


They will delay while they pay consultants vast fortunes to come up with a name that isn’t circuit breaker or firebreak.


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## kingrollo (28 Oct 2020)

oldworld said:


> Tonight Macron is addressing the nation, everyone's expecting another lockdown.
> As the UK has been following Europe expect the same in England in a few weeks



Politics. If European countries do lockdowns and our deaths continue to rise - Boris will not have an option (IMO)

Que many news stories and interviews with people saying how inconvenient it is and describing things they now won't be able to do.....Newsflash ! - No one likes Lockdowns - but other than dying we are short on options.


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## kingrollo (28 Oct 2020)

newfhouse said:


> They will delay while they pay consultants vast fortunes to come up with a name that isn’t circuit breaker or firebreak.



Yep Johnson will come on - Union Jack behind him "We will fight them in the petri dishes"


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## Andy in Germany (28 Oct 2020)

Germany is likely to go back into something like the previous lockdown: it'll be decided by the states as far as I know and the current plan seems to be to close everything except schools and kindergartens.

And of course Protected Workshops. I guess that's the flip side of having a crisis-proof job...


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## Flick of the Elbow (28 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> This Government's handling of the process for putting areas into lock down is abysmal. After extensive negotiations with the councils involved it was anticipated there would be an announcement in Nottingham this week and would come into effect this week. The areas had been agreed. Now the Government has delayed things because they have decided to add more areas and need to negotiate with them. This process is taking literally weeks and in the meantime we are filling up one ward a day with Covid patients and all non essential operations are cancelled. Unlike some areas the City Council seem keen to proceed to T3 ASAP. I have no idea why this level of incompetence exists - it's as if there is no rush to do anythings as if time is not a critical factor. Surely we must have learnt something by now.


Yes there is something to be said for living in a one party state 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


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## randynewmanscat (29 Oct 2020)

oldworld said:


> Tonight Macron is addressing the nation, everyone's expecting another lockdown.
> As the UK has been following Europe expect the same in England in a few weeks


I watched the first 10 minutes of C4 news on Wednesday night and it was depressing listening to a professor talking about Joe public swapping conspiracy stories on bookface and a substantial portion of them not taking the situation seriously from day 1 onwards.
Turned the TV off and walked 100M down the road to dinner with friends and Macron was on the TV news detailing the confinement due to start on Friday.
Got home at 10 and saw an email from a friend in my home town, business as usual is what he told me in response to questions about how the restrictions in Greater Manchester are affecting people. He lives in Hale and he knows the place and Altrincham as well as me, almost a lifetime spent there. Pubs are all open selling sorry excuses for "substantial meals", crisp sandwich for the main course sir, side of oven chips?
The only place closed was the Costa coffee shop. Two pubs not even arsked to provide pretend meals operating like speak easys with entry via the back door. Life goes on it seems even as the hospitals start to fill.


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## perplexed (29 Oct 2020)

newfhouse said:


> They will delay while they pay consultants vast fortunes to come up with a name that isn’t circuit breaker or firebreak.




Given Johnson's previous output, I'm guessing it'll be a 'catchy', three word slogan. Apparently, three word slogans are all you need to govern these days. You don't need any policies and plans an' stuff.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Oct 2020)

perplexed said:


> Given Johnson's previous output, I'm guessing it'll be a 'catchy', three word slogan. Apparently, three word slogans are all you need to govern these days. You don't need any policies and plans an' stuff.



Delay, decay, disease will be the new slogan.


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## winjim (29 Oct 2020)

perplexed said:


> Given Johnson's previous output, I'm guessing it'll be a 'catchy', three word slogan. Apparently, three word slogans are all you need to govern these days. You don't need any policies and plans an' stuff.


Policies, plans, provisions.


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## SteveF (29 Oct 2020)

Boffin, Coughing, Coffin


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## kingrollo (29 Oct 2020)

randynewmanscat said:


> I watched the first 10 minutes of C4 news on Wednesday night and it was depressing listening to a professor talking about Joe public swapping conspiracy stories on bookface and a substantial portion of them not taking the situation seriously from day 1 onwards.
> Turned the TV off and walked 100M down the road to dinner with friends and Macron was on the TV news detailing the confinement due to start on Friday.
> Got home at 10 and saw an email from a friend in my home town, business as usual is what he told me in response to questions about how the restrictions in Greater Manchester are affecting people. He lives in Hale and he knows the place and Altrincham as well as me, almost a lifetime spent there. Pubs are all open selling sorry excuses for "substantial meals", crisp sandwich for the main course sir, side of oven chips?
> The only place closed was the Costa coffee shop. Two pubs not even arsked to provide pretend meals operating like speak easys with entry via the back door. Life goes on it seems even as the hospitals start to fill.



Re the substantial meal - TBF if you give people a 'get out' they will take it. If you want the pubs shut - shut them.


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## fossyant (29 Oct 2020)

randynewmanscat said:


> He lives in Hale and he knows the place and Altrincham as well as me, almost a lifetime spent there. Pubs are all open selling sorry excuses for "substantial meals", crisp sandwich for the main course sir, side of oven chips?
> The only place closed was the Costa coffee shop. Two pubs not even arsked to provide pretend meals operating like speak easys with entry via the back door. Life goes on it seems even as the hospitals start to fill.



That's Hale for you.

Pubs near me are closed unless there really is a meal - those that usually serve meals are open but you can't go in unless booked for a meal.

I'm off to Manchester on Friday. We have a booked 90 minute slot for lunch in a bar, then we'll have a walk, no shopping, then booked into a restaurant for evening meal (7 hours later), then back to the hotel room. Hotel bar not open - can only go in restaurant for a meal.


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## roubaixtuesday (29 Oct 2020)

newfhouse said:


> They will delay while they pay consultants vast fortunes to come up with a name that isn’t circuit breaker or firebreak.



Delay, Dither, Die?

Pestilence, Prevarication, Putrefaction?

What jolly japes.


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## lane (29 Oct 2020)

numbnuts said:


> Just been looking at the news and they are saying it could go up to 500 deaths per day,
> to me being an old fart it makes me feel I'm just waiting to die



Logic suggests that deaths will peak quite a bit higher than this now. We now have 100,000 cases a day doubling every 10 days. It is difficult to see we won't get to at least 200,000 a day given at how slow the Government reacts. I can't see it will be any better than the last peak.


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## lane (29 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Delay, Dither, Die?
> 
> Pestilence, Prevarication, Putrefaction?
> 
> What jolly japes.



I think the new term is likely to be "National Measures" and my earlier prediction of the 20th November still stands.


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## C R (29 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Delay, Dither, Die?
> 
> Pestilence, Prevarication, Putrefaction?
> 
> What jolly japes.


The second one sounds like a great death metal band


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## kingrollo (29 Oct 2020)

I work for a large NHS hospital and today took up the offer of antibody test. Nurse I spoke to they have had lots of people test positive with the slightest of ailments, sore throats, headaches, and that the three classic symptoms , Fever, Smell, Cough are missing a lot of cases. She was convinced you can pretty easily get COVID twice

She also told me the trust is discontinuing anti body tests - as they really don't get much from it. .


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## oldfatfool (29 Oct 2020)

Oh well now self isolating for 2 weeks because a colleague I worked with for half a shift last week as now tested positive, glad I bit the bullet and bought a new turbo. Rules are getting dafter though, soon everyone will be at home whether they have the virus or not and it will be one continuous circle until they wake up and realise the virus is here to stay.


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## fossyant (29 Oct 2020)

I know quite a few folk that have had kids sent home to 'isolate'. So far none of them have become ill fortunately, but it's two weeks stuck in for nothing (OK it's not quite nothing). This will be a merry-go-round.


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## winjim (29 Oct 2020)

Fun times as my colleague who I share an office with has tested positive. Extra fun times as he is part of the vaccine trial so hopefully in the control group. Extra super fun times as he's just returned from quarantine after his housemate had the virus, so isolation times, as anyone who's been paying attention will know, are not nearly long enough. Extra super duper fun times as he is totally asymptomatic and only got tested because he's part of the vaccine trial, having tested negative several times during his isolation period.

Fun times indeed.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (29 Oct 2020)

winjim said:


> Fun times as my colleague who I share an office with has tested positive. Extra fun times as he is part of the vaccine trial so hopefully in the control group. Extra super fun times as he's just returnes from quarantine after his housemate had the virus, so isolation times, as anyone who's been paying attention will know, are not nearly long enough. Extra super duper fun times as he is totally asymptomatic and only got tested because he's part of the vaccine trial, having tested negative several times during his isolation period.
> 
> Fun times indeed.



Good news in a way -every case in a vaccine trial is a case closer to an efficacy read out.


----------



## winjim (29 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Good news in a way -every case in a vaccine trial is a case closer to an efficacy read out.


I know, we were saying earlier in the week that it was kind of a shame that nobody else in the house had caught it as it would have been useful info.

I'm hoping he'll be OK of course, his housemate only had it very mildly.


----------



## fossyant (29 Oct 2020)

winjim said:


> I know, we were saying earlier in the week that it was kind of a shame that nobody else in the house had caught it as it would have been useful info.
> 
> I'm hoping he'll be OK of course, his housemate only had it very mildly.



Thing is, he would test positive, vaccine or not, but his symptoms should be mild (assuming he has had the vaccine). It doesn't stop you catching it, but your body knows how to deal with it.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (29 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Thing is, he would test positive, vaccine or not



No, not so. 

The primary end point of the major phase III vaccine trials is testing positive by PCR.

I'll dig out a link in a mo.


----------



## fossyant (29 Oct 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> No, not so.
> 
> The primary end point of the major phase III vaccine trials is testing positive by PCR.
> 
> I'll dig out a link in a mo.



OK Ta... expands my knowledge.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (29 Oct 2020)

Here you go

From the Oxford/AZ trial. 

Primary endpoint: _Virologically confirmed (PCR positive) symptomatic COVID-19 infection_

From the official EU clinical trials register. 

https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/trial/2020-001228-32/GB

As an aside, it's interesting that the endpoint is symptomatic COVID - asymptomatic cases don't count. Whilst that makes sense from an individual benefit perspective, from a herd immunity perspective, as we know asymptomatic cases can be infectious, it doesn't.


----------



## lane (30 Oct 2020)

Government looking at introducing a Tier 4. If they hadn't let Sunak water down the original tier 3 proposals so much maybe they wouldn't have needed Tier 4. No doubt Sunak is already planning ways to water down any further tier 4 restrictions to ensure they are as ineffective as possible.


----------



## kingrollo (30 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Government looking at introducing a Tier 4. If they hadn't let Sunak water down the original tier 3 proposals so much maybe they wouldn't have needed Tier 4. No doubt Sunak is already planning ways to water down any further tier 4 restrictions to ensure they are as ineffective as possible.


Eat out to help 2 - only available in Tier 4.


----------



## SteveF (30 Oct 2020)

The gov have done the calculations, we have come full circle, the tier will be 3.14


----------



## lane (30 Oct 2020)

It has taken so long to get Nottingham into Tier 3 that they have had two opportunities for people to enjoy a "last chance" night out. Last weekend and now last night when large groups went out. I can't think this really helps.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Oct 2020)

SteveF said:


> The gov have done the calculations, we have come full circle, the tier will be 3.14



A tier 4 area will be πr^2


----------



## lane (30 Oct 2020)

Rumor has it that tier 4 will involve the imposition of restrictions that actually worked in Leicester when it was the first area to have restrictions, which would seem to make sense. That involved shutting pubs, cafes and non essential shops - rather than leaving cafes, shops and most pubs still open as in tier 3.


----------



## Blue Hills (30 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> It has taken so long to get Nottingham into Tier 3 that they have had two opportunities for people to enjoy a "last chance" night out. Last weekend and now last night when large groups went out. I can't think this really helps.


Twats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54746814
apologies if already posted.

Good mix of folk there - different races - men and women - all twats. Twatdom doesn't discriminate, it's available to all.


----------



## lane (30 Oct 2020)

Just seen Boris has given the green light to trick or treat FFS


----------



## SpokeyDokey (30 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Twats
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54746814
> apologies if already posted.
> 
> Good mix of folk there - different races - men and women - all twats. Twatdom doesn't discriminate, it's available to all.



I hope they enjoy paying for the mess as the decades roll by.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Just seen Boris has given the green light to trick or treat FFS



Yep and it’s not even a British tradition.


----------



## kingrollo (30 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Just seen Boris has given the green light to trick or treat FFS



Feckin idiot - should have been an orange light.


----------



## cyberknight (30 Oct 2020)

question regarding cycle clubs , mine meets in another area that is at tier 1 (med) ,as from midnight my area is going to tier 2 (high ) , can i attend the club ride anymore ?


----------



## lazybloke (30 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> Rumor has it that tier 4 will involve the imposition of restrictions that actually worked in Leicester when it was the first area to have restrictions, which would seem to make sense. That involved shutting pubs, cafes and non essential shops - rather than leaving cafes, shops and most pubs still open as in tier 3.



The R number is leaping up. It's far too late for a 2 week circuit breaker to have much effect, so a longer lockdown (Tier 4 or worse?) seems inevitable. It's just a question of how long before Boris acts.The time has passed, so why dither any longer. Is he going to allow Halloween? Bonfire night?
If he doesn't get it under control quickly, then the relaxation for Christmsa will be mince-pie-in-sky. I'd love to know what SAGE think of the idea.

Nope, it's a severe lockdown coming, except the young/healthy will have lost their fear of the virus, others will be bored of the rules, and others still will no longer give a **** about the rules. I think there'll have to be more strict enforcement this time, otherwise it won't be effective. Bah.

In happier news, my centenarian grandparent tested positive 2 months ago but has shaken it off without any ill effects. Amazing!


----------



## Globalti (30 Oct 2020)

Cycleops said:


> There have been very few reported cases in Africa so far, don't know what that indicates. So if anyone wants to get away from it here might be a good place to escape.
> Mixed blessing for me as I want to come over to the UK around Easter. Airline seats are dirt cheap right now but what chances do I have of catching it if I come?



As I'm sure you know that's because most Africans are under 21. Only 3 percent are over 60.

Depending on where you go, what you do and who you spend time with your chances of catching it can be tiny. 

The common cold must be having a rough time at the moment.


----------



## DCLane (30 Oct 2020)

cyberknight said:


> question regarding cycle clubs , mine meets in another area that is at tier 1 (med) ,as from midnight my area is going to tier 2 (high ) , can i attend the club ride anymore ?



You can still ride as a group of 6 and can stop outdoors as the group, but not indoors. If there's more than 6 of you ride in different groups.

My club's been doing rides and asking people to state that they're going. When the six is formed the ride is full. Other's have been doing polls / taking tickets.


----------



## cyberknight (30 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> You can still ride as a group of 6 and can stop outdoors as the group, but not indoors. If there's more than 6 of you ride in different groups.
> 
> My club's been doing rides and asking people to state that they're going. When the six is formed the ride is full. Other's have been doing polls / taking tickets.


yes thats what we have been doing but since where i live is technically in a different area i was not sure if i can still ride with them now?


----------



## lane (30 Oct 2020)

cyberknight said:


> question regarding cycle clubs , mine meets in another area that is at tier 1 (med) ,as from midnight my area is going to tier 2 (high ) , can i attend the club ride anymore ?



I don't think there is any guidance about travelling out of your area for tier 2 and you can still meet outside with 6. If there is a cafe stop and they go inside you have to stop outside or sit on your own separately inside.


----------



## lane (31 Oct 2020)

National restrictions next Wednesday according to the media as we are now worse than the worse case


----------



## raleighnut (31 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> National restrictions next Wednesday according to the media as we are now worse than the worse case


About time.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (31 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> National restrictions next Wednesday according to the media as we are now worse than the worse case


Glad to hear it, but if he’d taken more effective action weeks ago this could have been avoided.


----------



## MrGrumpy (31 Oct 2020)

My fear is we have to follow suit up here in Scotland?  Our FM is not universally loved up here. However I do support what she is trying to do. Still think some areas should have been locked down in our tier 4 starting Monday.
However hearing the stories of what’s going on in some areas we are royally f....Ed trying to keep infections down. House parties ahoy .


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (31 Oct 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> My fear is we have to follow suit up here in Scotland?  Our FM is not universally loved up here. However I do support what she is trying to do. Still think some areas should have been locked down in our tier 4 starting Monday.
> However hearing the stories of what’s going on in some areas we are royally f....Ed trying to keep infections down. House parties ahoy .


At least if Nicola decides that an area needs higher restrictions she can just do it, unlike Boris and his weeks and weeks of negotiations.


----------



## lane (31 Oct 2020)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> At least if Nicola decides that an area needs higher restrictions she can just do it, unlike Boris and his weeks and weeks of negotiations.



And even if it's a national lockdown he still seems to have to get the OK from the chancellor


----------



## Julia9054 (31 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> National restrictions next Wednesday according to the media as we are now worse than the worse case


Whatever they decide to do, I am predicting that they won’t close schools


----------



## MrGrumpy (31 Oct 2020)

We have had an email asking us to agree to blended learning.  At high school. I hope it doesn’t come into use but with the new rules on face coverings for senior pupils in HS it’s inevitable


----------



## cyberknight (31 Oct 2020)

lane said:


> I don't think there is any guidance about travelling out of your area for tier 2 and you can still meet outside with 6. If there is a cafe stop and they go inside you have to stop outside or sit on your own separately inside.


well after the announcement today i have contacted the club founder and told them untill we are back to where we have been for the last few months i dont feel cofortable leading a ride tomorrow and from thursday we will not be allowed to run club rides anyway


----------



## lane (1 Nov 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Whatever they decide to do, I am predicting that they won’t close schools



Well you are correct for the time being. But apparently research is ongoing to see if schools can stay open in their current form. This might be the next u turn.


----------



## raleighnut (1 Nov 2020)

lane said:


> Well you are correct for the time being. But apparently research is ongoing to see if schools can stay open in their current form. This might be the next u turn.


As I posted earlier maybe the 'government' don't want to pay out as much in pensions, 

new slogan

'Kill yer granny to save money'


----------



## srw (1 Nov 2020)

raleighnut said:


> As I posted earlier maybe the 'government' don't want to pay out as much in pensions,
> 
> new slogan
> 
> 'Kill yer granny to save money'


Maybe. But it's granny who most reliabily votes Conservative. It would be reckless for the Conservative party to give the impression that they are killing off their own voters, and even more reckless for them actually to do it.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (2 Nov 2020)

Step son works in a council care home. 2/3 weeks ago, one of the girls came to work after testing positive (and displaying symptoms) and worked for two days before telling anyone. 6 staff have now tested positive and are self-isolating. Staff are tested but not residents but it would be astonishing to think they haven't got it. Meanwhile, my daughter in law has tested positive so the step-son is now self-isolating too.


----------



## pclay (2 Nov 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Step son works in a council care home. 2/3 weeks ago, one of the girls came to work after testing positive (and displaying symptoms) and worked for two days before telling anyone. 6 staff have now tested positive and are self-isolating. Staff are tested but not residents but it would be astonishing to think they haven't got it. Meanwhile, my daughter in law has tested positive so the step-son is now self-isolating too.



Abolutely shocking. I would hope that this member of staff is sacked, on the basis it can be proven that she knew she was positive for 2 days.


----------



## All uphill (2 Nov 2020)

pclay said:


> Abolutely shocking. I would hope that this member of staff is sacked, on the basis it can be proven that she knew she was positive for 2 days.


She could then become an MP or special adviser.


----------



## fossyant (2 Nov 2020)

pclay said:


> Abolutely shocking. I would hope that this member of staff is sacked, on the basis it can be proven that she knew she was positive for 2 days.



It is shocking. We had an email telling us the car park visits to MIL were off this week.

They have had an outbreak of...

Diarrhea and vomiting.

MIL picked it up, despite being in a room on her own. Doesn't look good if any staff test positive as hygiene standards obviously aren't good if residents in their own rooms are getting the slops.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (2 Nov 2020)

pclay said:


> Abolutely shocking. I would hope that this member of staff is sacked, on the basis it can be proven that she knew she was positive for 2 days.


Dunno. They're so chronically short of staff it's unlikely.


----------



## rockyroller (5 Nov 2020)

last Sunday, at my part-time 2nd job at a major home improvement store, I learned that in April, one of my colleagues was killed by covid. he was my 1st day mentor 10 years ago. I had taken approx 6 mos. off so now that I'm back I'm trying to catch up w/ all the news. that was sad


----------



## C R (10 Nov 2020)

Next door neighbours, wife tested positive, and now husband and two daughters showing symptoms. It is getting too close now.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (10 Nov 2020)

C R said:


> Next door neighbours, wife tested positive, and now husband and two daughters showing symptoms. It is getting too close now.



Teammate of my son in his football team tested positive today. 

Taking to a colleague in Sweden, he's feeling unwell and waiting test results. 

I know it's just random, but makes it feel all around.


----------



## Oldhippy (10 Nov 2020)

It is!


----------



## rockyroller (11 Nov 2020)

Wifey is a teacher, she often shares stories about her colleagues. the past cpl of days she's been bombarded with cases that her friends or relatives of her friends have. one colleague is on full-remote, never goes into the bldg, due to her liver transplant. she was just tested positive. Wifey is pretty well shook up. she has asthma & is having trouble getting her favorite inhaler.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (11 Nov 2020)

Stepson may have it but he's already self isolating due to coming into contact with someone who tested positive. He's not sure how to get a test during self isolation.


----------



## DCLane (11 Nov 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Stepson may have it but he's already self isolating due to coming into contact with someone who tested positive. He's not sure how to get a test during self isolation.



Book one as normal, travel by own car or someone in the house taking them.


----------



## C R (11 Nov 2020)

DCLane said:


> Book one as normal, travel by own car or someone in the house taking them.


That's what our neighbours did.


----------



## fossyant (11 Nov 2020)

Daughter is a week into isolation after her Art Tutor tested positive last week. Touch wood absolutely no symptoms and we're all fine.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Nov 2020)

Remain at lightest since 2002 and getting out for exercise everyday. Mentally and physically fine. Did Covid test as part of imperial study and came back negative as expected.


----------



## Accy cyclist (14 Nov 2020)

Just listening online to an animal rights campaigner explaining about the terrible mass slaughter of mink in Denmark,due to an unproven theory that they carry 'the virus'.He explained how they die,which i won't repeat. He said the 17 million mink slaughtered was the tip of the iceberg, as that country kills 100 million every year.

Just so some bastards can wear fur coats!!


----------



## srw (14 Nov 2020)

Err... Yeah, we know. 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-in-mink.268556/


----------



## Ming the Merciless (14 Nov 2020)

We’ve had a week of staycation as our UK holiday cottage was cancelled due to lockdown. Not been too bad a week and got out every day exploring our local area in different ways.


----------



## rockyroller (14 Nov 2020)

7,000 Americans died from covid last week. likely a higher # will die next week & the week after & the week after & ... not good for so many reasons & I see the end coming to the industry I work for (again) school portraits


----------



## Rusty Nails (18 Nov 2020)

I was talking on the phone to an old school friend today and he told me of two former classmates who had died of Covid in the past month.


----------



## C R (18 Nov 2020)

A classmate of mine from primary school died from it in the first wave.

Our neighbours are not doing well at the moment. Their daughters recovered after a couple of days, but they themselves are quite ill, but still at home.


----------



## Rusty Nails (18 Nov 2020)

As winter comes on and the virus is still spreading there is no doubt It is affecting me mentally.

I worry about my partially sighted son who lives alone in his flat and works from home and tells us he is fine, but I know he wouldn't want to worry us if he wasn't.

I worry about my daughter in London who teaches in a sixth form college and my granddaughter that we have seen just once since her first birthday in late February.

I worry about my sister who lives alone in Merthyr and tells me she feels like crying all the time.

I worry about my nephew, who has problems with depression and tried to hang himself after being made redundant after furlough a few weeks ago.

I worry about my own health as I have been referred by my doctor for possible prostate cancer . I am optimistic that it is just old mens' problems but the delays seem interminable, possibly due to Covid pressures.

I apologise in advance if I sometimes get a bit snippy in my responses on this forum because of my mood. I have done so on occasions recently only to think better of it later and then delete the post.

I work at acting as if everything is fine, but am definitely not doing well with this virus.

And to cap it all I'm not getting out on the bike enough.


----------



## newfhouse (18 Nov 2020)

@Rusty Nails That’s a heavy weight you’re carrying. All I can offer is my best wishes for good outcomes.


----------



## rockyroller (19 Nov 2020)

get on the bike. many times I've been out, working up a hill, thinking to myself "I'm OK, I'm OK, I can do this". deep lung fulls of breath, never felt so important


----------



## lane (19 Nov 2020)

Some people from my workplace really very poorly with it even several weeks after first contracting it. One has been in hospital twice and expected to be at least 12 weeks off work in total.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (19 Nov 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> As winter comes on and the virus is still spreading there is no doubt It is affecting me mentally.
> 
> I worry about my partially sighted son who lives alone in his flat and works from home and tells us he is fine, but I know he wouldn't want to worry us if he wasn't.
> 
> ...



Best Rusty, and whilst my circumstances are somewhat different, your description very much reflects a lot of what I feel. 

I managed 30 minutes on the bike in freezing rain this morning. That cheered me up! (Really!)


----------



## Globalti (19 Nov 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> As winter comes on and the virus is still spreading there is no doubt It is affecting me mentally.
> 
> I worry about my partially sighted son who lives alone in his flat and works from home and tells us he is fine, but I know he wouldn't want to worry us if he wasn't.
> 
> ...



My God, I thought my worries were real and legitimate until I saw your list. Don't underestimate the effect of all this on your mental health, admit you might need a helping hand and go and see your GP. 

Not doing the things you used to enjoy is one symptom of depression.

Mirtazapine is helping me a little but I'm still paralysed by anxiety and slipping slowly into a worsening situation. Realistically there's nothing anyone can do, I just have to take each day as it comes.


----------



## srw (21 Nov 2020)

Very useful article by Tim Harford in this weekend's FT. 

Why Covid-19 vaccines face a new obstacle course - https://on.ft.com/2IZDbNk via @FT

Might be accessible via the link - the paywall is effective. 

If not - he's carefully thought about the practicalities of getting people vaccinated and the risks involved. There are plenty of points in the process at which things could go wrong and we'd need competent government to avoid it.


----------



## newfhouse (21 Nov 2020)

srw said:


> There are plenty of points in the process at which things could go wrong and we'd need competent government to avoid it.


Elegantly worded.


----------



## lazybloke (21 Nov 2020)

srw said:


> Very useful article by Tim Harford in this weekend's FT.
> 
> Why Covid-19 vaccines face a new obstacle course - https://on.ft.com/2IZDbNk via @FT
> 
> ...


The article raises some good points but does seem to focus on the storage requirements of the pfizer-biontech vaccine. Other vaccines will be much easier/cheaper to store and transport.


----------



## Unkraut (21 Nov 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> As winter comes on and the virus is still spreading there is no doubt It is affecting me mentally.


I doubt is anyone cannot identify with that, the more so the older you get. 

Personally, I am trying to steer a course between pretending the virus isn't that serious (covidiots, it's just flu) and living permanently in its shadow. Regarding the former, it is true that most of the population will come through this without serious problems, especially the younger. Statistically (I know ...) I have a 99,3% chance of surviving infection. That is at least encouraging. Even very old people with serious existing conditions can and do survive the virus in reasonable numbers.

On the other hand, I recently saw a piece on telly featuring a man from Elsass (Alsace) in France who was exactly my age and fit through biking, yet had only just survived infection. Oh dear. This was at the beginning in March and I wonder if he received a huge dose of the virus pre-mask wearing. Also seen a German MP, 48, who thought her end had come, came through but is breathless going up steps, cannot sing anymore, and doesn't know if this will heal or not. That has to be taken on board.

So I try to be sober about the virus but without living in constant fear. Easier said than done. From this side of the Channel I get the impression this is harder to do in Britain as the press is constantly whipping up hysteria, and coupled with the govt's attempt to micro-manage behaviour leads to an atmosphere of panic.


----------



## Julia9054 (21 Nov 2020)

My boss tested positive on Friday. Given that she does nothing but work, she undoubtedly caught it from one of the pupils. 
Fortunately for me, as all meetings etc are now on Teams and it's a big school, I haven't actually seen her in person in the last week. 
She is feeling tired and headachey with a very mild cough. The sort of symptoms you would, in normal times, just soldier on with


----------



## lane (21 Nov 2020)

Just looked into Dom's moonshot debacle and it's costing the same as it cost to send a man to the moon converting to today's money -astounding.


----------



## lane (21 Nov 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> My boss tested positive on Friday. Given that she does nothing but work, she undoubtedly caught it from one of the pupils.
> Fortunately for me, as all meetings etc are now on Teams and it's a big school, I haven't actually seen her in person in the last week.
> She is feeling tired and headachey with a very mild cough. The sort of symptoms you would, in normal times, just soldier on with



Hope it gets no worse - at least 4 people where I work are very ill


----------



## Rezillo (21 Nov 2020)

We buy our eggs from the farmgate stall/shed of this man's farm:

https://www.eadt.co.uk/business/far...d-occold-farmer-dies-of-coronavirus-1-6937045

From fit and healthy 69 year old active farmer to dead in 5 days - just shocking. 

Meanwhile, Ipswich Hospital has closed four wards to admissions because of Covid ( "an undisclosed number of new cases") yet locally we have one of the lowest rates in the country.


----------



## Specialeyes (11 Dec 2020)

My son and his GF, living with us at the moment, tested positive this past weekend. They noticed they couldn't smell anything while walking through Debenhams perfume department. 'Phoned home, I booked them a test within 30 minutes in Southend.
Muggins here noticed I couldn't taste a hot chocolate on Monday - test Monday afternoon (still 120 appointments available that day), positive result by breakfast time on Tuesday.
A colleague who was pinged by my app and was worried about symptoms booked and got a test this morning with no problem. Wife and daughter went to book a test this afternoon, coincidentally just a few seconds after Matt Hancock announced that London and Essex schoolkids should get tested, and there were 5 slots left... If 5 of us in a household all test positive, what does that do to the local R-number, I wonder? 

Really don't want to tempt fate, but so far, so good. The youngsters seem to be doing fine nearly a week in. I'm a little paranoid about my chest tightening but it isn't really - can still max out the wife's peak flow meter. But I do have the aches, listlessness and fuzzy-headedness. All the cycling this year will, with luck help keep it at bay. But it does seem to be a bit of a lottery as to how ill one gets...


----------



## rockyroller (11 Dec 2020)

Rezillo said:


> From fit and healthy 69 year old active farmer to dead in 5 days - just shocking.


wow, just wow. in that photo he could be a 40 yr old!


----------



## rockyroller (11 Dec 2020)

the ironies of covid do not cease

from the beginning, when we were told to stock up & hunker down, staying away from crowds, forcing us into stores w/ crowds to stock up

& as recently as yesterday, finding out that our adult Son who just returned from Virginia for a 10-day stay w/ his girlfriend's family. we were worried about his exposure at airports & on airplanes, etc. he told us the plane had only about 7 ppl aboard yesterday & the airports were ghost towns. then when he returned to his apartment, which he shares w/ 3 friends, he found out one of them had a high fever. so the bigger danger may have been at his own home. but even more ironic, this house mate, works for Pfizer, one of the companies that is making a vaccine. Wifey says he gets tested weekly. the fever is down, his Mom is a nurse, so we're hoping for his negative test & our Son is struggling to get one scheduled after his trip

regardless we just can't escape this dam bug


----------



## cyberknight (11 Dec 2020)

I think i posted this in another thread as i couldnt find this on but i will repost as it belongs here  
Mini ck 1 sent home from school monday as someone in his class tested positive so the whole class is in 14 day isolation if you can call it that , they expect them all to go back for 2 days of last term haha !


----------



## rockyroller (11 Dec 2020)

cyberknight said:


> I think i posted this in another thread as i couldnt find this on but i will repost as it belongs here
> Mini ck 1 sent home from school monday as someone in his class tested positive so the whole class is in 14 day isolation if you can call it that , they expect them all to go back for 2 days of last term haha !


we're seeing similar occurrences in the schools our company serves. postponing events & hoping we can get our service done while they are open. many companies in our industry (school portraits) have folded. I never know when the other shoe will drop for me. I'm one of very few hanging on, in the office


----------



## Unkraut (12 Dec 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I would suggest pointing the finger instead at the toxic economic conditions caused by all those pro-lockdown idiots who want to suspend daily life for years just because there's a virus going around.


A good friend of my sister-in-law had his prostate cancer treatment suspended in the summer due to the hospital lacking capacity - due to covid. By the time they saw him again a couple of weeks ago it had spread and become terminal. Hospice space was sought but not found because of overloading there too. To cap it all, he became infected with corona whilst in hospital, and I assume this hastened his death. His wife bought him a new musical instrument a few days ago - just couldn't take in the reality, couldn't face it, pretending it won't happen.

The _pro-lockdown idiots_ are trying to slow the spread of the virus so this kind of situation won't arise. It is becoming reality to tens of thousands of people now. The virus itself may not always be lethal, it is in any event nasty, but many are now dying or suffering due to hospitals being overloaded. I believe the hospital concerned in north Kent cannot take any new patients.

How many lives is it worth sacrificing in return for the 'normal' enjoyment of Christmas shopping, getting together in the pub or eating out in a restaurant?


----------



## raleighnut (12 Dec 2020)

Unkraut said:


> A good friend of my sister-in-law had his prostate cancer treatment suspended in the summer due to the hospital lacking capacity - due to covid. By the time they saw him again a couple of weeks ago it had spread and become terminal. Hospice space was sought but not found because of overloading there too. To cap it all, he became infected with corona whilst in hospital, and I assume this hastened his death. His wife bought him a new musical instrument a few days ago - just couldn't take in the reality, couldn't face it, pretending it won't happen.
> 
> The _pro-lockdown idiots_ are trying to slow the spread of the virus so this kind of situation won't arise. It is becoming reality to tens of thousands of people now. The virus itself may not always be lethal, it is in any event nasty, but many are now dying or suffering due to hospitals being overloaded. I believe the hospital concerned in north Kent cannot take any new patients.
> 
> How many lives is it worth sacrificing in return for the 'normal' enjoyment of Christmas shopping, getting together in the pub or eating out in a restaurant?


Quite.


----------



## vickster (15 Dec 2020)

Swabbed this morning, now isolating ahead of ankle surgery on Friday...hopefully negative!


----------



## C R (15 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> Swabbed this morning, now isolating ahead of ankle surgery on Friday...hopefully negative!


Good luck with the surgery.


----------



## Landsurfer (15 Dec 2020)

lane said:


> I seem to be wrong we already have 367 deaths just today - unfortunately things seem to be worse than I expected.


367 deaths out of 67,000,000 ..... wow, that is one deadly disease .... How many over 80 ? ... what were the total deaths for the day 17-1800 ??
JW !


----------



## lane (15 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 367 deaths out of 67,000,000 ..... wow, that is one deadly disease .... How many over 80 ? ... what were the total deaths for the day 17-1800 ??
> JW !



80,000 excess deaths. To me that is a lot I don't know if it seems a lot to you. I guess what seems a lot to one person doesn't to someone else.


----------



## srw (15 Dec 2020)

New incidence tracker launched today. https://covid.lcp.uk.com/

I am quite immoderately excited by this. At last someone is applying basic projection techniques to the data from ONS and PHE to provide an up-to-date estimate of how many people are actually being infected today. It's long overdue, even if the result is very ugly indeed from a public health perspective.







I don't believe I know any of the people involved, but it's not impossible - the consultancy is a very good, very progressive one I've worked with in the past, and I've got friends who do work for them. The technique is a basic one used for this sort of data where there's a delay in reporting. If I was being really picky I'd quite like an error bar on the estimate, but I'll let them off.


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 367 deaths out of 67,000,000 ..... wow, that is one deadly disease .... How many over 80 ? ... what were the total deaths for the day 17-1800 ??
> JW !


So if your over 80 in your book then your just collateral.


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## Landsurfer (15 Dec 2020)

lane said:


> 80,000 excess deaths. To me that is a lot I don't know if it seems a lot to you. I guess what seems a lot to one person doesn't to someone else.


WOW. thats a lot of excess deaths .... reference to that please ... ONS ?


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## Landsurfer (15 Dec 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> So if your over 80 in your book then your just collateral.


No .. in your book ... your happy for hundreds of thousands to die, lose their homes and jobs, rather than providing real world support and care for the over 80's ... you are happy for children to go without education, food and support rather than protect the most vulnerable ...
To protect the vulnerable requires the rest of society to produce income for the country ... not hide under the stairs !!!


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## lane (15 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> WOW. thats a lot of excess deaths .... reference to that please ... ONS ?



Can't be bothered just Google excess deaths UK info is widely available from the ONS.


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## lane (15 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> No .. in your book ... your happy for hundreds of thousands to die, lose their homes and jobs, rather than providing real world support and care for the over 80's ... you are happy for children to go without education, food and support rather than protect the most vulnerable ...
> To protect the vulnerable requires the rest of society to produce income for the country ... not hide under the stairs !!!



We certainly have some hard choices. Unfortunately if you don't keep strict controls the NHS will be overwhelmed quickly whatever support you give the over 80s with many tens of thousands more deaths. Best keep restrictions a few more months until vaccine is rolled out.


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## newfhouse (15 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> WOW. thats a lot of excess deaths .... reference to that please ... ONS ?


Yes, it is a lot. Too many.

England only figures are here. 63,401 to the end of November. ONS figures presented by PHE.
https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/stati...lance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html

And ONS covering England and Wales here.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndandwalesprovisional/weekending4december2020

You’re welcome, although I have a feeling you won’t bother to read it.


----------



## MrGrumpy (16 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> No .. in your book ... your happy for hundreds of thousands to die, lose their homes and jobs, rather than providing real world support and care for the over 80's ... you are happy for children to go without education, food and support rather than protect the most vulnerable ...
> To protect the vulnerable requires the rest of society to produce income for the country ... not hide under the stairs !!!


So your solution is what then ?


----------



## lane (16 Dec 2020)

srw said:


> New incidence tracker launched today. https://covid.lcp.uk.com/
> 
> I am quite immoderately excited by this. At last someone is applying basic projection techniques to the data from ONS and PHE to provide an up-to-date estimate of how many people are actually being infected today. It's long overdue, even if the result is very ugly indeed from a public health perspective.
> 
> ...



So if that is replicated throughout UK we be about 72,000 cases a day compared with an estimated 100,000 a day at height of first peak?


----------



## lazybloke (17 Dec 2020)

My better half has symptoms. Postal tests have run out, but the local drive-through site had loads of availability.
Just got back; tests done.

Spending most of the rest of the year locked indoors would be a bit sad. On a positive note, I'd have an excuse not to send any more cards.


----------



## Unkraut (17 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> To protect the vulnerable requires the rest of society to produce income for the country ... not hide under the stairs !!!


But if the rest of society decides to carry on as normal, it won't be possible to protect the vulnerable nor have much hope of treating them if they fall seriously ill. 

I don't think there is anyone who doesn't see this as a very real dilemma, balancing saving lives with saving livelihoods, but the beginning of a way out of it would be for everyone to abide by the corona rules. There seems to be a huge overlap between those moaning the loudest about the hygiene rules and simultaneously complaining about lockdowns.


----------



## Stephenite (17 Dec 2020)

The local tracing team called me on Monday to say I'd been in close contact with a colleague the previous Wednesday who has since tested positive. Close contact round here means to be less than two metres apart for a continuous 15 minutes. So it's ten days quarantine for me - backdated to the day after contact - and a test. I booked the test online for 20 minutes later. Result two days later was negative.

A couple more days chokey and I can go and out and source some mince pies - though i fear Norway is sold out.


----------



## vickster (17 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> Swabbed this morning, now isolating ahead of ankle surgery on Friday...hopefully negative!


No call, so clear for op tomorrow. Very stressful day finishing off work, handing over and tidying the house a bit. 
Going to have a pedal on the turbo for the last time in lord knows how long In front of the Masterchef final!


----------



## lane (17 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 367 deaths out of 67,000,000 ..... wow, that is one deadly disease .... How many over 80 ? ... what were the total deaths for the day 17-1800 ??
> JW !



21% of deaths in Wales now from covid so it is much more significant than you in imagine. Bear in mind that that is with all the restrictions - what would the percentage be with no controls?


----------



## fossyant (17 Dec 2020)

A little positive news for a change. MrsF was furloughed in April then lost her job in October. She's just been offered a permanent position this evening (tea time) after a second interview earlier this week. She thought she hadn't got it as they said they'd call Wednesday or Thursday, but it's the company's year end and they have been busy.


----------



## DCLane (17 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> No call, so clear for op tomorrow.



Hope it goes well.


----------



## C R (17 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> No call, so clear for op tomorrow. Very stressful day finishing off work, handing over and tidying the house a bit.
> Going to have a pedal on the turbo for the last time in lord knows how long In front of the Masterchef final!


Best of luck.


----------



## newts (17 Dec 2020)

Mrs Newts phoned in sick a couple of weeks ago with non covid related symptoms, her employer (NHS) insisted we were both tested. Had me throat & hooter probed at the local drive through within 4 hours, negative test results back next morning for both of us.


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## fossyant (17 Dec 2020)

Good luck tomorrow @vickster


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## MichaelW2 (17 Dec 2020)

I'm coming from a fine Tier 2 city, picking up my wife who is flying into Stansted airport. She has the compulsory self isolation, and I believe, a test at the airport.
Question is, what precautions should I, the driver take when transporting self isolators to shared household.
I cant find any specific advice on any official source.


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## classic33 (17 Dec 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> I'm coming from a fine Tier 2 city, picking up my wife who is flying into Stansted airport. She has the compulsory self isolation, and I believe, a test at the airport.
> Question is, what precautions should I, the driver take when transporting self isolators to shared household.
> I cant find any specific advice on any official source.


Any help?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-safer-travel-guidance-for-passengers


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## aferris2 (17 Dec 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> I'm coming from a fine Tier 2 city, picking up my wife who is flying into Stansted airport. She has the compulsory self isolation, and I believe, a test at the airport.
> Question is, what precautions should I, the driver take when transporting self isolators to shared household.
> I cant find any specific advice on any official source.


I don't think it's changed from when we returned to the UK in September. The only statement was to wear a mask if using public transport. Our daughter picked us up from Heathrow and she insisted that we wore masks and sit in the back with all windows open.


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## srw (19 Dec 2020)

I'm looking back on my two days in Tier 3 with nostalgia. 

Tier 3 had essentially no impact on me. Tier 4 is different - we've had to cancel plans to visit family, and I thank my lucky stars I got my Christmas shopping done yesterday.


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## lazybloke (19 Dec 2020)

Got our negative test results this afternoon and maybe half an hour of freedom before Boris gave his press conference!
Also heard my niece tested positive yesterday, so that side of the family can't even go out for exercise now.

Back into London for work on Monday; that's gonna be different.


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## Unkraut (24 Dec 2020)

The infection rate has dropped from over 33 000 to a bit over 24 000 for the last couple of days. I hope this is a sign that the measures are starting to have an effect, although two or three days isn't very long.


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## C R (24 Dec 2020)

Unkraut said:


> The infection rate has dropped from over 33 000 to a bit over 24 000 for the last couple of days. I hope this is a sign that the measures are starting to have an effect, although two or three days isn't very long.


Meantime in the UK we are going the other way.


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## Joey Shabadoo (25 Dec 2020)

A Covid christmas spent outdoors around an open fire with the grandkids (first time we've seen them in 10 months).

Know something? Best Christmas yet.


----------



## Rusty Nails (25 Dec 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 565171
> 
> A Covid christmas spent outdoors around an open fire with the grandkids (first time we've seen them in 10 months).
> 
> Know something? Best Christmas yet.



We've had two one hour Zoom sessions with my daughter and 20 month old granddaughter in London today. 

In the second one we didn't see my granddaughter much as she had taken up residence in the box that one of her presents came in and didn't want to come out.


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## Globalti (26 Dec 2020)

The new variant is out with cases reported in several places in Europe this morning. That means it's out in society. The even more deadly South African variant will follow and both will replace the original virus. The virus is now two significant steps towards vaccine escape, which is inevitable.

It's been good, we've had fun.


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## Oldhippy (26 Dec 2020)

Viruses change constantly, that is how they survive. I have seen no real evidence the variants are any more fatal. Media and social media go for sensational first fact second.


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## Landsurfer (26 Dec 2020)

570 deaths of/ with/maybe covid19 yesterday .. out of 55,000,000 ... over 1100 deaths from other causes ... Why are we not getting "Other Causes" vaccines ... After all, Boris and Handsoncock are working towards making death an offence aren't they ? Tier 28 i expect .....
If i was cynical of course !


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## srw (26 Dec 2020)

570 deaths from one cause, which is highly infectious and dangerous even if you don't die. 1100 deaths from all other causes combined. It's pretty clear which is the more urgent problem.


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## Julia9054 (26 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 570 deaths of/ with/maybe covid19 yesterday .. out of 55,000,000 ... over 1100 deaths from other causes ... Why are we not getting "Other Causes" vaccines ... After all, Boris and Handsoncock are working towards making death an offence aren't they ? Tier 28 i expect .....
> If i was cynical of course !


2 of the biggest killers are cancer and heart disease. Cancer research say cancer deaths account for 450 per day. BHF say heart disease deaths are around 460 per day. We currently have one infectious disease accounting for more deaths than either of those big killers. And to you this still isn’t concerning?


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## winjim (26 Dec 2020)

We do have other vaccines. What are we after, some kind of vaccine of the gaps?


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## marinyork (26 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 570 deaths of/ with/maybe covid19 yesterday .. out of 55,000,000 ... over 1100 deaths from other causes ... Why are we not getting "Other Causes" vaccines ... After all, Boris and Handsoncock are working towards making death an offence aren't they ? Tier 28 i expect .....
> If i was cynical of course !



We live in neighbouring local areas where the virus is kept steady in tier 3. By the standards of Dec 2020, there ain't that much virus around here (there is, it's a matter of comparison for we are not in Essex, East London or Kent).

Tier 4 is to control the new B117 strain. It's been reported of course everywhere in the UK because we don't play this silly pretend game that Macron does about the virus not being present in France, which sadly the French population may end up paying for, that's politicians for you. As soon as the B117 strain gets hold in the other two thirds of England, the deaths could be 1000, 1500 a day and drop slowly for months to March/April/May.

The way out is another national set of restrictions aka tier 4, to get the vaccination program going with huge momentum in Jan/Feb, vaccinate a sizeable proportion of the population, ease restrictions slightly and keep social distancing/masks/ventilation and hope by the summer that we have better treatments like antibody injections to stop the cytokine storm and people ending up in hospital.

Then by the time the third wave comes, life can be more like tier 2 again.


----------



## classic33 (26 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> 570 deaths of/ with/maybe covid19 yesterday .. out of 55,000,000 ... over 1100 deaths from other causes ... Why are we not getting "Other Causes" vaccines ... After all, Boris and Handsoncock are working towards making death an offence aren't they ? Tier 28 i expect .....
> If i was cynical of course !


Can we vaccinate against getting struck by a moving vehicle?


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## Andy in Germany (26 Dec 2020)

These help:


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## marinyork (26 Dec 2020)

We don't really have many blue skies .


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## fossyant (26 Dec 2020)

classic33 said:


> Can we vaccinate against getting struck by a moving vehicle?



Ride MTB. But we'd need two vaccines for moving rocks and trees !  Oh and maybe a little something for mud.


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## Bazzer (26 Dec 2020)

Yesterday, spent 2 1/2 hours in minus 1, opening presents with our eldest daughter, SIL and granddaughter, in their garden, in an effort to protect my wife and child 2, child 1's family and my sister's family for whom I am their support. Arrived back home chilled, to find 5 cars parked on a next door neighbour's drive and outside their house, which stayed there most of the day.
This, in a region of a handful of square miles which, by all published figures, is and has consistently been, by some distance, the highest in the area and comfortably exceeded the infection rate of the adjoining T3, despite at the time being considered as an area in T2. 😡😡😡


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## C R (26 Dec 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Yesterday, spent 2 1/2 hours in minus 1, opening presents with our eldest daughter, SIL and granddaughter, in their garden, in an effort to protect my wife and child 2, child 1's family and my sister's family for whom I am their support. Arrived back home chilled, to find 5 cars parked on a next door neighbour's drive and outside their house, which stayed there most of the day.
> This, in a region of a handful of square miles which, by all published figures, is and has consistently been, by some distance, the highest in the area and comfortably exceeded the infection rate of the adjoining T3, despite at the time being considered as an area in T2. 😡😡😡


And then people are surprised that things keep getting worse.


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## DCLane (26 Dec 2020)

@Bazzer - which explains why this is still going on. Stupid people, being selfish and killing others.


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## Bazzer (26 Dec 2020)

C R said:


> And then people are surprised that things keep getting worse.





DCLane said:


> @Bazzer - which explains why this is still going on. Stupid people, being selfish and killing others.


I know. It infuriates me. Mrs B winces when I say I just wish Darwin would apply to these people, without the fallout to others in the community.
What I find utterly baffling is he is of an age which is more, but not the most, vulnerable; his wife is obese; and one of the cars belonged his disabled daughter. Go figure!


----------



## Saluki (26 Dec 2020)

I am now in Tier 4. We were Tier 2 but, as of a minute past midnight today we were 4.
I walked my dogs in the city centre today and saw about a dozen people in total. I have never seen Westlegate empty before. It was quite spooky really.

When the news broke that we were to be in Tier 4, Wednesday I think, I kind of wanted to eat my feelings, but pulled myself together and settled for a bit of a weep.
Lockdown 1 was ok, lockdown 2 was hard. This time, as tier 4 is pretty much lockdown for us singletons, it just depressed me.
I have masked, avoided people like the plague, been sensible yet here we are again.
How long we will be on T4, I know not, pretty sure we’ll all get through, but the loneliness is getting me down.


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## marinyork (27 Dec 2020)

Tier 3 during Christmas and looming Tier 4 does have the feel of never seeing anyone outside your household ever again.


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## Andy in Germany (27 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> Tier 3 during Christmas and looming Tier 4 does have the feel of never seeing anyone outside your household ever again.



I'm fortunate: I'm not really feeling the lockdown, partly because it's not quite as severe here, but also because my employer provides an essential service so we've never really stopped or had furlough or similar.

Being an introvert helps, of course; in fact it is the first time I can remember that introversion is socially acceptable.


----------



## marinyork (27 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm fortunate: I'm not really feeling the lockdown, partly because it's not quite as severe here, but also because my employer provides an essential service so we've never really stopped or had furlough or similar.
> 
> Being an introvert helps, of course; in fact it is the first time I can remember that introversion is socially acceptable.



National restrictions 2 aka lockdown 2 pretty much killed off many things here including voluntary sector stuff. How 'essential services' are treated here is very different. How some other essential services choose to behave is also different. It's kind of funny to think I did four short bursts of volunteering last Christmas and it wasn't like people were doing that well last year.

Many are hibernating and suffering. 

One of my friends said the singleton line to me, but I said it wasn't that it's that everything has been killed off and people are doing their own thing, or paralysed unable to leave the house, or feel up to any interactions with others.


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## Andy in Germany (28 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> National restrictions 2 aka lockdown 2 pretty much killed off many things here including voluntary sector stuff. How 'essential services' are treated here is very different. How some other essential services choose to behave is also different. It's kind of funny to think I did four short bursts of volunteering last Christmas and it wasn't like people were doing that well last year.
> 
> Many are hibernating and suffering.
> 
> One of my friends said the singleton line to me, but I said it wasn't that it's that everything has been killed off and people are doing their own thing, or paralysed unable to leave the house, or feel up to any interactions with others.



That is the advantage here: psychological help is considered an essential service, so it doesn't rely on volunteers.

What's the "singleton line"?


----------



## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> That is the advantage here: psychological help is considered an essential service, so it doesn't rely on volunteers.
> 
> What's the "singleton line"?



Someone I know who does a broadly similar role to yourself here, which btw that 'service' is not universal around the UK, they had their first day back not WFH, just ... before Christmas!

The singleton line is that, the great pandemic of 2020 ended things and so I'm single and has been the case for many other people. I think there's an assumption this year that it's a problem for people, which if it was any other year than 2020 would be interesting.


----------



## Milzy (28 Dec 2020)

My bro in law been going into Tier 2 with his g/f to use restaurants. Now his g/f & her mum got C19. The idiot is living with 2 brothers & one is self employed so no way is he isolating. I doubt the others will follow the rules. Covidiots everywhere. That’s why it will drag on into 2022.


----------



## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Being an introvert helps, of course; in fact it is the first time I can remember that introversion is socially acceptable.



I like the quiet aspects of it, it's just seeing two people from uni properly face to face since March and at times a whole week going by for even non-face comms such as phone or texts from friends, even before the extended Christmas shutdown of 2020. This is not quite enough stimulation/contact. That's a national restrictions 2 thing, it wasn't like that before then, which is why I said national lockdown two had changed/killed a lot of things off or had that feel, although it does seem a long time ago now when it was October. 

Some public spaces are rammed, certain parks are very, very crowded every day.


----------



## Andy in Germany (28 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> I like the quiet aspects of it, it's just seeing two people from uni properly face to face since March and at times a whole week going by for even non-face comms such as phone or texts from friends, even before the extended Christmas shutdown of 2020. This is not quite enough stimulation/contact. That's a national restrictions 2 thing, it wasn't like that before then, which is why I said national lockdown two had changed/killed a lot of things off or had that feel, although it does seem a long time ago now when it was October.
> 
> Some public spaces are rammed, certain parks are very, very crowded every day.



I can see that: I guess that because I have lots of interaction at work, I'm very happy to vanish for the evenings and weekends. If I worked from home or had been in furlough it may have been different.


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## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I can see that: I guess that because I have lots of interaction at work, I'm very happy to vanish for the evenings and weekends. If I worked from home or had been in furlough it may have been different.



Sometimes the interactions thing in the UK makes me chuckle, I realised weeks later that what a lot of people call interactions, are for me big interactions and what I count, doesn't even register on the radar for other people sometimes.

I did try and make as much of the summer and early autumn as I could.

No venues are open, rightly, which makes some stay in understandably, but that's the really big problem in the UK with the voluntary sector, as all/most venues are closed you can't do any volunteering. There's actually a glut of volunteers at the moment, far too many wanting to volunteer and barely anything open.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2020)

Was out for a ride yesterday and some one I hadn’t seen for months caught me up. So we had a good natter for the next 30 mins before our paths diverged. It was nice to have a conversation as the vast majority of my rides have been solo since the pandemic hit.

You can tell many are craving fresh conversations and company from what happens in chance encounters, whether you know the person or not.


----------



## Andy in Germany (28 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> Sometimes the interactions thing in the UK makes me chuckle, I realised weeks later that what a lot of people call interactions, are for me big interactions and what I count, doesn't even register on the radar for other people sometimes.



Yup, same here...


----------



## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> What's the "singleton line"?



I forgot to say there have been a few bits of coverage on this. 

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/articl...c-is-causing-spikes-in-break-ups-and-divorces one of the more recent and more broad looks with less personal stories on there.


----------



## Milzy (28 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> I forgot to say there have been a few bits of coverage on this.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/worklife/articl...c-is-causing-spikes-in-break-ups-and-divorces one of the more recent and more broad looks with less personal stories on there.


You can’t blame a virus for more divorces. You have to work at a marriage no matter what. The number one stress on marriage is kids & number 2 money problems. If anything you’d think COVID would bring couples closer together.


----------



## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Milzy said:


> You can’t blame a virus for more divorces. You have to work at a marriage no matter what. The number one stress on marriage is kids & number 2 money problems. If anything you’d think COVID would bring couples closer together.



Covid has caused a lot of people a lot of money problems.

I'm not sure couples are necessarily brought closer by separation, or conversely living in small pokey houses in each other's pockets.


----------



## Milzy (28 Dec 2020)

marinyork said:


> Covid has caused a lot of people a lot of money problems.
> 
> I'm not sure couples are necessarily brought closer by separation, or conversely living in small pokey houses in each other's pockets.


They can go out running or cycling. If they divorce because of this virus then they were never meant to be.


----------



## marinyork (28 Dec 2020)

Milzy said:


> They can go out running or cycling. If they divorce because of this virus then they were never meant to be.



The article is written after. They can exercise relatively freely now. In the first lockdowns depending on what country you lived in you couldn't necessarily do it as freely, or in England it was perceived to mean one short piece of exercise once a day by many.


----------



## DaveReading (28 Dec 2020)

Milzy said:


> You can’t blame a virus for more divorces.



If you have an alternative explanation for the marked year-on-year increase in relationship breakups, please tell.


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

From the Daily Telegraph this morning ;

"Almost three times as many under 60s died in road crashes last year as those without health conditions killed by coronavirus, NHS data shows.

Just 388 people under the age of 60 with no underlying health conditions have died of coronavirus in England, NHS data has revealed.

The figures show that only 0.8 per cent of all deaths from coronavirus between April 2 and December 23 came from this group of the population.

In the same time 45,770 people had died with underlying health conditions, while 1,979 were viewed as healthy.

Of these, only 388 were between 40 and 59, 44 were between the ages of 20 and 39, and only six were younger than 19.

In comparison, during the whole of 2019, 955 under-60s died on England’s roads."

Lockdown didn't work, closing schools didn't work, masks haven't worked, Welsh fire break didn't work, Lockdown 2 hasn't worked, destruction of the hospitality industry hasn't worked .... so which one will the government try again i wonder .... I'm sure they can snatch disaster from the jaws of success with the vaccine programme ....


----------



## lazybloke (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> From the Daily Telegraph this morning ;
> 
> "Almost three times as many under 60s died in road crashes last year as those without health conditions killed by coronavirus, NHS data shows.
> 
> ...


I'm really not sure what point you are making - what do you think is the best way to manage Coronavirus?

If you think lockdowns, masks, school closures and other measures don't work, have you stopped to consider what would happen to all those numbers if we let the virus run free? 

Infection rates have already been on the increase through December; the rate of increase is steep; hospitals are on the cusp of being overwhelmed - and that's before we know the impact of festive partying and mixing. You're quoting numbers for a narrow set of deaths; imagine how many more deaths would result from the NHS collapsing.

Surely another strict lockdown is inevitable in January. 

Vaccines are the next weapons in the armoury, but they'll take time and might win a battle rather than the war.


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

lazybloke said:


> I'm really not sure what point you are making - what do you think is the best way to manage Coronavirus?
> 
> If you think lockdowns, masks, school closures and other measures don't work, have you stopped to consider what would happen to all those numbers if we let the virus run free?
> 
> ...


I haven't got a clue how to manage c-19 .... but i do know that all we have done so far doesn't work ... so can someone come up with something different please, because it cant make things worse than they are now .... at this rate of infection we won't need a vaccine .. we'll all have had it ...


----------



## Bazzer (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I haven't got a clue how to manage c-19 .... but i do know that all we have done so far doesn't work ... so can someone come up with something different please, because it cant make things worse than they are now .... at this rate of infection we won't need a vaccine .. we'll all have had it ...


Whilst the infection may be more transmissible than scientists first believed, a good starting point might have been people following the rules, or as an absolute minimum being sensible.
It feels like almost everyday either I see, or read of people clearly not giving a shoot about their fellow inhabitants of this planet. Today it was Brits in Australia. Yesterday it was Brits hastily leaving Switzerland. Just before Christmas it was the exodus from the South East.


----------



## PK99 (29 Dec 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Whilst the infection may be more transmissible than scientists first believed, a good starting point might have been people following the rules, or as an absolute minimum being sensible.
> It feels like almost everyday either I see, or read of people clearly not giving a shoot about their fellow inhabitants of this planet. Today it was Brits in Australia. Yesterday it was Brits hastily leaving Switzerland. Just before Christmas it was the exodus from the South East.



I agree.

I've seen far too many people ignoring, or consciously bending, the rules from very early in the year.


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## newfhouse (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I haven't got a clue how to manage c-19 .... but i do know that all we have done so far doesn't work


Why do you think the number of daily deaths reduced during May and June? Are you sure the measures taken had no effect?


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Why do you think the number of daily deaths reduced during May and June? Are you sure the measures taken had no effect?
> 
> View attachment 565990


And we are where we are now ... T5 next ? All these figures we keep being bombarded with ..... how many people in England have had C-19 .. ?
And after 9 months of people not following the rules what is going to make them start now ... ?
One minute the MSM are screaming "We're all going to die" and the next quietly pointing out that most of aren't ... that healthy under 60's are at more risk of death by RTA than of C-19 ... No wonder people ignore rules that don't effect them or their peer / social network ...
We have no members of our social / work / peer group older than us ... i'm the oldest at 62 .... but the way things are being reported in the MSM we will all have had this new faster infecting, but no more dangerous variant, before we get vaccinated. 
Julie and i had the virus, all the symptoms, in April, isolated .. got better.


----------



## PK99 (29 Dec 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Why do you think the number of daily deaths reduced during May and June? Are you sure the measures taken had no effect?
> 
> View attachment 565990




For comparison, Germany Vs UK


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## vickster (29 Dec 2020)

What’s the MSM?

You may have recovered without any sequelae but 10s of 000s of people haven’t
It’s the younger people who might not suffer badly but they certainly transmit it to those more at risk of doing so.
And presumably people continue to die in RTAs so Covid deaths are additional to other causes not instead of.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Sorry ... Main Stream Media ..
The point i'm trying to make, badly, is that figures dropped and have risen again ... so what ever we did has not reduced the effect ...
I'll call it quits now and get back to fettling and knocking the dirty dog poo brigade ...


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## fossyant (29 Dec 2020)

So it's fine for all those folk that have died of Cv19 ? Too much "won't affect me, so stuff the old or vulnerable". I have a relative that says 'life is for living' and doesn't follow the rules. She might think differently if her mum or nan died because they were too busy mixing.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

fossyant said:


> So it's fine for all those folk that have died of Cv19 ? Too much "won't affect me, so stuff the old or vulnerable". I have a relative that says 'life is for living' and doesn't follow the rules. She might think differently if her mum or nan died because they were too busy mixing.


I never said that, don't make things up!
Debate, discuss and accept that your view is not the only valid one ... its called free speech.


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## lazybloke (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> at this rate of infection we won't need a vaccine .. we'll all have had it ...


If the virus fatality rate is approx 1%, then we're only about one tenth of the way through the potential number of direct Covid deaths. Or to put it another way, 90% still to go. So vaccines remain vital.


And here's another graph (hospital admissions in England), which shows more effectively the value of the November lockdown, but also the weakness of the tiers in December. That December trend is alarming, especially considering it'll be least late-January before we have a clear idea of the result of festive relaxations.







edited for stupidity


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## vickster (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Sorry ... Main Stream Media ..
> The point i'm trying to make, badly, is that figures dropped and have risen again ... so what ever we did has not reduced the effect ...
> I'll call it quits now and get back to fettling and knocking the dirty dog poo brigade ...


It’s seemingly not possible to eliminate the virus unless you lockdown completely for months or you are a small country in the middle of the pacific 000s of miles from anywhere. As shown in the graph, lockdown 1 did reduce the number of cases. But the virus was still circulating in the community so as soon as things opened up again it began to rise and the return of some semblance of normality including reopening school, workplaces and hospitality allowed it to spread again unfettered


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> It’s seemingly not possible to eliminate the virus unless you lockdown completely for months or you are a small country in the middle of the pacific 000s of miles from anywhere. As shown in the graph, lockdown 1 did reduce the number of cases. But the virus was still circulating in the community so as soon as things opened up again it began to rise and the return of some semblance of normality including reopening school, workplaces and hospitality allowed it to spread again unfettered


So another lockdown ... like lock down 2 in December, was never going to work ?, and another lockdown in Jan will be pointless as well ? Your thoughts appreciated...


----------



## vickster (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> So another lockdown ... like lock down 2 in December, was never going to work ?, and another lockdown in Jan will be pointless as well ? Your thoughts appreciated...


It probably needs to be the same as March to July unfortunately, with the vaccine rolled out ASAP


----------



## lane (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> From the Daily Telegraph this morning ;
> 
> "Almost three times as many under 60s died in road crashes last year as those without health conditions killed by coronavirus, NHS data shows.
> 
> ...



Surprised you haven't been put in charge you have all the answers. I know I am wasting mt breath, but has it occurred to you that all these people who hasn't died is due to the controls and lockdowns etc. We are nearly 90,000 excess deaths and counting though.


----------



## Andy in Germany (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> From the Daily Telegraph this morning ;
> 
> "Almost three times as many under 60s died in road crashes last year as those without health conditions killed by coronavirus, NHS data shows.



To me that suggests less that we are overestimating the impact of C-19, more that we are severely underestimating the danger of a car based transport system. It looks like a corona style lockdown on driving would be a good idea.


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> It probably needs to be the same as March to July unfortunately, with the vaccine rolled out ASAP


Thanks vickster, I have said before that i expect this pathetic government to snatch disaster from the jaws of success with regard to the vaccine ... we'll see ...


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

lane said:


> Surprised you haven't been put in charge you have all the answers. I know I am wasting mt breath, but has it occurred to you that all these people who hasn't died is due to the controls and lockdowns etc. We are nearly 90,000 excess deaths and counting though.


I have no answers, i'm baffled, just as baffled as Handsoncock and Buffoon, but i'm not pretending to lead the country..


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## vickster (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> as Handsoncock


Did you make that up all by yourself


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

vickster said:


> Did you make that up all by yourself


Of course not ... i'm not that bright ...


----------



## steve292 (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> So another lockdown ... like lock down 2 in December, was never going to work ?, and another lockdown in Jan will be pointless as well ? Your thoughts appreciated...


In the spirit of debate.

I would think that another set of severe restrictions would be in order. It is obvious from the graphs that from a health point of view that the march to may restrictions were successful in reducing transmissions.
I think that the point that a lot of people are trying to get over is the present low % rate of deaths is due to having enough critical care facilities and staff available. If the health system is overwhelmed that death rate will jump that much is obvious to me.
Edit.. having just seen the 53000 new cases today I would speculate it wont take long at this rate before we are right up shoot creek.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

steve292 said:


> In the spirit of debate.
> 
> I would think that another set of severe restrictions would be in order. It is obvious from the graphs that from a health point of view that the march to may restrictions were successful in reducing transmissions.
> I think that the point that a lot of people are trying to get over is the present low % rate of deaths is due to having enough critical care facilities and staff available. If the health system is overwhelmed that death rate will jump that much is obvious to me.
> Edit.. having just seen the 53000 new cases today I would speculate it wont take long at this rate before we are right up shoot creek.


Can I ask if you are on an income based on pension(s) or an active generator of your prime income through full time employment ... 
There is a feeling amongst my colleagues and myself that many of those who advocate shutting down the economy are insulated from it's failure, ... retirement, pension etc.
If thats not the case then I think that you are unusual in your stance that "another set of severe restrictions would be in order." 
Many of my friends are self employed in industries that have been badly affected by lockdowns, 1 is facing repossession of his home, despite government assurance, ... but thats just my bubble / network ..


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## Rocky (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Can I ask if you are on an income based on pension(s) or an active generator of your prime income through full time employment ...
> There is a feeling amongst my colleagues and myself that many of those who advocate shutting down the economy are insulated from it's failure, ... retirement, pension etc.
> If thats not the case then I think that you are unusual in your stance that "another set of severe restrictions would be in order."
> Many of my friends are self employed in industries that have been badly affected by lockdowns, 1 is facing repossession of his home, despite government assurance, ... but thats just my bubble / network ..


I think Sweden showed the fallacy of thinking it was possible to keep the economy open and ignore the spread of Covid. They’ve had 9 times the deaths (per 100,000) of their neighbours and their economy still suffered. Their king has just apologised for this policy.

Losing your business is awful but, as Sweden has demonstrated, the alternative is far worse and in the end it doesn’t protect jobs.


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

Sorry to butt in but read the paragraph above. I think that we will have to completely rethink economic structure, work practices and get used to the idea of a new normal. Diseases don't generally pay any attention to inconvenient problems caused to us. A new 'normal' is likely.


----------



## lane (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Can I ask if you are on an income based on pension(s) or an active generator of your prime income through full time employment ...
> There is a feeling amongst my colleagues and myself that many of those who advocate shutting down the economy are insulated from it's failure, ... retirement, pension etc.
> If thats not the case then I think that you are unusual in your stance that "another set of severe restrictions would be in order."
> Many of my friends are self employed in industries that have been badly affected by lockdowns, 1 is facing repossession of his home, despite government assurance, ... but thats just my bubble / network ..



China has stricter lockdowns now the economy is back to normal.


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## Andy in Germany (29 Dec 2020)

Rocky said:


> I think Sweden showed the fallacy of thinking it was possible to keep the economy open and ignore the spread of Covid. They’ve had 9 times the deaths (per 100,000) of their neighbours and their economy still suffered. Their king has just apologised for this policy.
> 
> Losing your business is awful but, as Sweden has demonstrated, the alternative is far worse and in the end it doesn’t protect jobs.



There seems to be a strong correlation of people who vehemently say Lockdown is bad because "business" and people who support Brexit. It's very odd.


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## lane (29 Dec 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> There seems to be a strong correlation of people who vehemently say Lockdown is bad because "business" and people who support Brexit. It's very odd.


In my experience absolutely true.


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## PK99 (29 Dec 2020)

lane said:


> China has stricter lockdowns now the economy is back to normal.



China welded shut gates to residential compounds, monitored movement by drones and banned people leaving home other than to buy food.


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

Business be damned. Economics sadly always seem to be more important than life! Why not work on a fairer system of wealth where everyone benefits and not just the privileged.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> Sorry to butt in but read the paragraph above. I think that we will have to completely rethink economic structure, work practices and get used to the idea of a new normal. Diseases don't generally pay any attention to inconvenient problems caused to us. A new 'normal' is likely.


But there have been virus's before ... more deadly than this one .. and the economy has recovered and we returned to "normal" not that we ever left "normal" in the past ... 
Are we sure we need to change the world economic structure for this ... or is this the right time and the virus is pointing the way ... robotic production, Universal Income etc ....


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> Business be damned. Economics sadly always seem to be more important than life! Why not work on a fairer system of wealth where everyone benefits and not just the privileged.


Rubbish ... those of us that work for a living, support our families, are not economical privileged and we are the majority...


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

Now is a once in a lifetime chance to change things for the better humanity and climate. Sadly we will just pox it up like always and return to ruining the only planet we have and keeping the privileged in their place.


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

I work hard for a living and always have.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> Now is a once in a lifetime chance to change things for the better humanity and climate. Sadly we will just pox it up like always and return to ruining the only planet we have and keeping the privileged in their place.


Sadly, in my heart i agree with you ... but socialism and its various formats always end up in the same fascist / totalitarian place ...


----------



## lane (29 Dec 2020)

PK99 said:


> China welded shut gates to residential compounds, monitored movement by drones and banned people leaving home other than to buy food.



Correct. It appears to have been a very effective policy.


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

I have had the good fortune to travel the world and seen the best and worst of humanity. Without exception the rich did best the poor died. The one chance in modern times to even the field for all will fail. With a virus at least it doesn't give a crap how much you have and will kill regardless.


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## PK99 (29 Dec 2020)

lane said:


> Correct. It appears to have been a very effective policy.



A policy you would recommend for the UK?


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> I have had the good fortune to travel the world and seen the best and worst of humanity. Without exception the rich did best the poor died. The one chance in modern times to even the field for all will fail. With a virus at least it doesn't give a crap how much you have and will kill regardless.


Sorry Oldhippy, the core of this discussion is that this virus does not kill regardless .... it's pretty specific ....


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## Oldhippy (29 Dec 2020)

Apologies.


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Can I ask if you are on an income based on pension(s) or an active generator of your prime income through full time employment ...
> There is a feeling amongst my colleagues and myself that many of those who advocate shutting down the economy are insulated from it's failure, ... retirement, pension etc.
> If thats not the case then I think that you are unusual in your stance that "another set of severe restrictions would be in order."
> Many of my friends are self employed in industries that have been badly affected by lockdowns, 1 is facing repossession of his home, despite government assurance, ... but thats just my bubble / network ..


I'd support another lockdown, if only because I'm being selfish and thinking of myself.

The longer it takes to get this under control, the longer three conditions(medical) go untreated.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

classic33 said:


> I'd support another lockdown, if only because I'm being selfish and thinking of myself.
> 
> The longer it takes to get this under control, the longer three conditions(medical) go untreated.


My wife is waiting for a spinal nerve block operation, due last April, and a hip replacement so we are singing off the same hymn sheet ...


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

Money is no good if it means you're the richest man in the graveyard.

Edited to remove quoted post.


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

And this virus, like many others, doesn't know how to discriminate on the basis of health or wealth.

It serves to remind us just how little we can actually do. Death awaits us all, even those cryogenically frozen(t'ain't cheap), but like a few more on here I'd like to be around a bit longer yet.

"Normal" keeps on popping up in these threads. Define "normal", anyone!


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

Since we are all incredibly rich ... our first world problems are all up for discussion .... Classic33 and Oldhippy, you more than most on here understand our wealth ... health system.. NHS / NCS, Dental care, pensions, Education .... food available everywhere we turn ... we all know our "hell" of C-19 is so much better than so much of the worlds experience ... any way back to the dog poo fairies .... take care, don't stay safe .....


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Since we are all incredibly rich ... our first world problems are all up for discussion .... Classic33 and Oldhippy, you more than most on here understand our wealth ... health system.. NHS / NCS, Dental care, pensions, Education .... food available everywhere we turn ... we all know our "hell" of C-19 is so much better than so much of the worlds experience ... any way back to the dog poo fairies .... take care, don't stay safe .....


It's not just a first world issue/problem though. It's worldwide, doesn't discriminate, and knows no man-made boundaries.


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## Landsurfer (29 Dec 2020)

classic33 said:


> It's not just a first world issue/problem though. It's worldwide, doesn't discriminate, and knows no man-made boundaries.


Please, it does discriminate ... thats the problem .... it's very discriminatory ...... I'm 62 , healthy and not remotely frightened for my own personal health ... If I was 72, with the underlying health issues i could expect at that age, i would be worried, very worried ... and would be keeping well away from people like me ...


----------



## snorri (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> And after 9 months of people not following the rules what is going to make them start now ... ?


Heavier punishments for rule breakers, and the same for infringements causing or likely to cause RTCs.


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## Rickshaw Phil (29 Dec 2020)

*Mod note:*

Once again the thread seems to be straying into debate that ought to be in the other thread. I'm also not happy to see it getting personal.

Back on topic and keep it civil from here please.

Thank you.


----------



## Andy in Germany (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Please, it does discriminate ... thats the problem .... it's very discriminatory ...... I'm 62 , healthy and not remotely frightened for my own personal health ... If I was 72, with the underlying health issues i could expect at that age, i would be worried, very worried ... and would be keeping well away from people like me ...



There are two problems there, one is that it doesn't just affect older people. I have asthma, which puts me on the "at risk" list, and I'm the main earner for my family, and I work in an essential service on psychological care so I can't stop work.

The other is that the logical conclusion of the policy you appear to describe is to remove the freedom of anyone at risk to an absurd (and in Germany unconstitutional) degree, for an indefinite period. The resulting psychological issues caused to vulnerable members of society, in terms of illness and excess deaths, could be almost as serious as the Corona virus itself, and would cost a comparable amount to fix.


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Please, it does discriminate ... thats the problem .... it's very discriminatory ...... I'm 62 , healthy and not remotely frightened for my own personal health ... If I was 72, with the underlying health issues i could expect at that age, i would be worried, very worried ... and would be keeping well away from people like me ...


I've underlying health issues, but the people I know who have tested positive for this virus have no known underlying issues. Nearly all have been younger, and the one who died from it was younger than me.

Looking at this from the point of someone with lifelong health issues, makes it hard to work out which will kill me. Should I be more worried more that the virus may get me, than the long-term health issues. I can't even answer my own question.


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> *Mod note:*
> 
> Once again the thread seems to be straying into debate that ought to be in the other thread. I'm also not happy to see it getting personal.
> 
> ...


I apologise if my posts have come across as personal.

I know I'll not be allowed any vaccine/jab due to underlying conditions. This means having to look at this a different way. None will just disappear, I've to manage the current situation as best as I can. The virus and everything else. There's no separating one from the others, they all have an impact on one another.

It's the indirect impact of the virus that has had the biggest impact on me.

Below this added in edit
I've treated this current situation as another "minor inconvenience". The same way I have with many because of epilepsy. Both have limited some of the things that can be done, at times that's been doing nothing. I'm not going to have someone telling me what they feel either limits me from doing. It's not a case of me ignoring it either. Both require some give on my side.

I'll say there's many more with long term health conditions, that are thinking/acting in a similar manner.
Simple, everyday things that others do without a second thought are a big "No" for me.


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## midlife (29 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Please, it does discriminate ... thats the problem .... it's very discriminatory ...... I'm 62 , healthy and not remotely frightened for my own personal health ... If I was 72, with the underlying health issues i could expect at that age, i would be worried, very worried ... and would be keeping well away from people like me ...



I'm 61 and the opposite to you as I have seen what it can do so am pretty worried and concerned to say the least if I get it!!


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## Bazzer (30 Dec 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Please, it does discriminate ... thats the problem .... it's very discriminatory ...... I'm 62 , healthy and not remotely frightened for my own personal health ... If I was 72, with the underlying health issues i could expect at that age, i would be worried, very worried ... and would be keeping well away from people like me ...


This is possibly part of the problem. People not being concerned for their own health but this impacts in numerous ways upon others, who for whatever reason/s are.


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## The Crofted Crest (30 Dec 2020)

@Rocky, a grateful nation says thanks to the Rockette!


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## All uphill (30 Dec 2020)

Thanks @classic33 for an individual perspective that reminds us that we divide humanity into a few enormous categories at the risk of over simplifying and coming to dangerous conclusions.

In July our 27 year old son was healthy, energetic and pursuing a rewarding career in one of the big cities. Now he is back living with Mum and dad, struggling daily with long covid.

I find people assuming they will be ok rather annoying.


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## Bazzer (31 Dec 2020)

Oh how I so wish Covid was more discriminatory!
The next door neighbour who had 5 cars of visitors on Christmas Day had 2 more today, on the day we moved into Tier 4. The look of shock on his face and his vocal stumblings as he saw me and my youngest daughter as he then asked his guests to go down the far side of the house into his garden, rather than through the front door, suggests he was not expecting me my youngest daughter to be working on her car in the snow. Aside from being in Tier 4, of course his guests were entertained in his garden (not).
It's no effing wonder this virus is causing chaos.😡


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## midlife (31 Dec 2020)

Not sure you are allowed visitors in the garden under tier 4?


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2020)

midlife said:


> Not sure you are allowed visitors in the garden under tier 4?



Nor in tier 3.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2020)

Virus and free and doing the one thing to most protect ourselves. Socially distancing at all times and no visitors even when allowed.


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## classic33 (31 Dec 2020)

Another test today, quicker results, negative again(Luck or doing things right?).

One hesitation on this latest test, it's only 50% as accurate (At best) as the previous ones, which are 90% accurate. 
Are they rushing tests through?


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## lane (31 Dec 2020)

Definitely not. Nor in the garage like our neighbors do. They even installed a log burner in the garage which pollutes our garden.


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## DCLane (31 Dec 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Oh how I so wish Covid was more discriminatory!
> The next door neighbour who had 5 cars of visitors on Christmas Day had 2 more today, on the day we moved into Tier 4. The look of shock on his face and his vocal stumblings as he saw me and my youngest daughter as he then asked his guests to go down the far side of the house into his garden, rather than through the front door, suggests he was not expecting me my youngest daughter to be working on her car in the snow. Aside from being in Tier 4, of course his guests were entertained in his garden (not).
> It's no effing wonder this virus is causing chaos.😡



I'd be reporting them. The idiots have killed enough people I know. Personally I'd want a more severe punishment; 4 weeks in jail minimum rather than a paltry fine.


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## classic33 (31 Dec 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Oh how I so wish Covid was more discriminatory!
> The next door neighbour who had 5 cars of visitors on Christmas Day had 2 more today, on the day we moved into Tier 4. The look of shock on his face and his vocal stumblings as he saw me and my youngest daughter as he then asked his guests to go down the far side of the house into his garden, rather than through the front door, suggests he was not expecting me my youngest daughter to be working on her car in the snow. Aside from being in Tier 4, of course his guests were entertained in his garden (not).
> It's no effing wonder this virus is causing chaos.😡


I've a neighbour tested positive for the fourth time. He's spent the last two weeks fixing cars up and selling them on. A third one arrived this morning.

Currently not allowed to work until he provides a negative, so he's taken to supplementing his pay selling cars he's fixed up.


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## midlife (31 Dec 2020)

classic33 said:


> Another test today, quicker results, negative again(Luck or doing things right?).
> 
> One hesitation on this latest test, it's only 50% as accurate (At best) as the previous ones, which are 90% accurate.
> Are they rushing tests through?



Depends on the test, a good swab for a PCR test is quite accurate (all that sensitivity / specificity stuff) but the 30 minute lateral flow tests are less so.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (1 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Another test today, quicker results, negative again(Luck or doing things right?).
> 
> One hesitation on this latest test, it's only 50% as accurate (At best) as the previous ones, which are 90% accurate.
> Are they rushing tests through?



Is this mass testing or something else prompted you to have a test?


----------



## Bazzer (1 Jan 2021)

Bazzer said:


> Oh how I so wish Covid was more discriminatory!
> The next door neighbour who had 5 cars of visitors on Christmas Day had 2 more today, on the day we moved into Tier 4. The look of shock on his face and his vocal stumblings as he saw me and my youngest daughter as he then asked his guests to go down the far side of the house into his garden, rather than through the front door, suggests he was not expecting me my youngest daughter to be working on her car in the snow. Aside from being in Tier 4, of course his guests were entertained in his garden (not).
> It's no effing wonder this virus is causing chaos.😡


A correction to my post. 
I understood my area entered Tier 4 at midnight on Wednesday night and not midnight on Thursday. Indeed, my 'phone app was telling me yesterday I was in Tier 4. However it seems it was midnight last night and not 24 hours earlier.
Nevertheless, the behaviour was unacceptable for a Tier 3 and in a local area which has by some distance the highest in the borough.


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## classic33 (1 Jan 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Is this mass testing or something else prompted you to have a test?


St. Georges Hall, Bradford. Testing station set up inside, with people outside asking if you would you be willing to be tested. Different test*, so I said yes.

Odd in that there's a second testing station on the far side of the Town Hall. And the first I've seen set up inside a building.

*Same procedure I know.


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## midlife (1 Jan 2021)

Bazzer said:


> A correction to my post.
> I understood my area entered Tier 4 at midnight on Wednesday night and not midnight on Thursday. Indeed, my 'phone app was telling me yesterday I was in Tier 4. However it seems it was midnight last night and not 24 hours earlier.
> Nevertheless, the behaviour was unacceptable for a Tier 3 and in a local area which has by some distance the highest in the borough.



I thought the tiers changed midnight Wednesday so new year's eve was included in the new tiers?


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## Bazzer (1 Jan 2021)

QUOTE="midlife, post: 6253170, member: 36570"]
I thought the tiers changed midnight Wednesday so new year's eve was included in the new tiers?
[/QUOTE]
Ahh, that would make sense then with what the app told me and what I understood the position to be. Thank you.
I'd seen on the local authority web site this morning a banner headline that we were now in Tier 4, which wasn't there yesterday, so thought I had misinterpreted the original information.


----------



## Yellow Fang (1 Jan 2021)

I saw an article in The Telegraph that said in order to get herd immunity the UK has to vaccinate 70% of the country. At a million a week that would take to November, what with new improved strain. Does that mean we have to stay locked down until November, because I don't want to. If the government just inoculates the most at risk 10%, can't they just let the rest of us go?


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## lazybloke (1 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I saw an article in The Telegraph that said in order to get herd immunity the UK has to vaccinate 70% of the country. At a million a week that would take to November, what with new improved strain. Does that mean we have to stay locked down until November, because I don't want to. If the government just inoculates the most at risk 10%, can't they just let the rest of us go?


If you look at hospital admission data by age groupings, it looks like the over-85s outnumber the total of ALL other age groupings combined. 
So those over-85s are definitely among the low-hanging fruit in the vaccination battle.

Unfortuantely that's 12 million people, so even at 1 million per week it's still the best part of 3 months to vaccinate them. But that suggests things should be looking better by Easter time, approx. How the 2nd dose argument will affect this is anyones guess!

However, the infection rates are driven by the activities of younger age groupings, so I imagine we'll see infection rates remaining high for many months, only dropping with the better weather, and then returning with autumnal weather later in the year.

Air travel will surely remain heavily supressed, and I should think a vaccination certificate will be needed.
More variants will emerge. Maybe this is a battle we'll have to fight again every couple of years.


----------



## C R (1 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I saw an article in The Telegraph that said in order to get herd immunity the UK has to vaccinate 70% of the country. At a million a week that would take to November, what with new improved strain. Does that mean we have to stay locked down until November, because I don't want to. If the government just inoculates the most at risk 10%, can't they just let the rest of us go?


Not really. With a large susceptible population you will still get large outbreaks. Bear in mind that herd immunity to any infectious disease has only ever been achieved through systematic vaccination.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I saw an article in The Telegraph that said in order to get herd immunity the UK has to vaccinate 70% of the country. At a million a week that would take to November, what with new improved strain. Does that mean we have to stay locked down until November, because I don't want to. If the government just inoculates the most at risk 10%, can't they just let the rest of us go?



Which is fine unless you're just on the "safe" side of the "at risk" line: I'm young enough to be considered a lower risk, so my vaccination will be a bit slower, but my job and underlying Asthma mean I'm at a higher risk than may otherwise be supposed.


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## vickster (1 Jan 2021)

lazybloke said:


> If you look at hospital admission data by age groupings, it looks like the over-85s outnumber the total of ALL other age groupings combined.
> So those over-85s are definitely among the low-hanging fruit in the vaccination battle.
> 
> Unfortuantely that's 12 million people, so even at 1 million per week it's still the best part of 3 months to vaccinate them. But that suggests things should be looking better by Easter time, approx. How the 2nd dose argument will affect this is anyones guess!
> ...


12m people over 85 from a population of 67m...are you sure?!  1 in 6 of the population?

statista suggests 1.2 million might be more like it!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/


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## srw (1 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> 12m people over 85 from a population of 67m...are you sure?!  1 in 6 of the population?


It's 12m over-65s. All of whom are intrinsically at high risk of hospital admission and death if they catch Covid.


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## vickster (1 Jan 2021)

srw said:


> It's 12m over-65s. All of whom are intrinsically at high risk of hospital admission and death if they catch Covid.


That seems more likely. The post I quoted says over 85s though hence my confusion!


----------



## lazybloke (1 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> That seems more likely. The post I quoted says over 85s though hence my confusion!


Whoops - must remember to engage brain before quoting stats. 
Still that's better news for those who are eagerly awaiting relaxation of _current_ restrictions.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jan 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Whoops - must remember to engage brain before quoting stats.
> Still that's better news for those who are eagerly awaiting relaxation of _current_ restrictions.



It is if you assume that only over 65's are at risk, as I said above.


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## Unkraut (1 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I saw an article in The Telegraph ...


I think it would be more honest, if not altogether welcome, for politicians and the medical expertise they ought to be listening to to say that the restrictions we are all fed up with will to some extent still be necessary for the rest of this year and possibly into the next. I can't see how it will be possible to vaccinate entire populations by summer, and it remains to be seen whether the vaccines being used prevent illness or prevent infection in the first place, i.e. mean you cannot pass on the virus if you come into contact with it.

Strict lockdowns are only necessary to get the infection rate down to a level where hospitals are not overwhelmed and tracking of the non-vaccinated population is possible. The more people refuse to obey the rules, the longer lockdowns will be necessary.


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## Yellow Fang (1 Jan 2021)

Unkraut said:


> I think it would be more honest, if not altogether welcome, for politicians and the medical expertise they ought to be listening to to say that the restrictions we are all fed up with will to some extent still be necessary for the rest of this year and possibly into the next. I can't see how it will be possible to vaccinate entire populations by summer, and it remains to be seen whether the vaccines being used prevent illness or prevent infection in the first place, i.e. mean you cannot pass on the virus if you come into contact with it.
> 
> Strict lockdowns are only necessary to get the infection rate down to a level where hospitals are not overwhelmed and tracking of the non-vaccinated population is possible. The more people refuse to obey the rules, the longer lockdowns will be necessary.



What, the whole of 2021 and part of 2022? 
I don't fancy staring at the four walls until then. As soon as the most vulnerable are inoculated, I want to be set free.


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## C R (1 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> What, the whole of 2021 and part of 2022?
> I don't fancy staring at the four walls until then. As soon as the most vulnerable are inoculated, I want to be set free.


We all want that, it doesn't mean that it is feasible.


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## Bazzer (2 Jan 2021)

Heard in the last 48 hours of two deaths: a friend of the compliant next door neighbour and a friend of my son in law's parents. The latter was a taxi driver in his mid 40s. 
Also Mrs B's church minister and her husband have now tested positive.
Mrs B and daughter 2 off to hospital tomorrow for more Covid tests and assuming negative, then they will be self isolating in anticipation of urgent surgery needed by daughter 2.


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## winjim (4 Jan 2021)

DCLane said:


> I'd be reporting them. The idiots have killed enough people I know. Personally I'd want a more severe punishment; 4 weeks in jail minimum rather than a paltry fine.


You can't lock people in a confined space for breaching rules that say you can't have people in a confined space. Jail is the last place we should be putting people.


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## winjim (4 Jan 2021)

Just dropped the 5yo off at the valley of death. I give it a week, a fortnight tops.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

winjim said:


> You can't lock people in a confined space for breaching rules that say you can't have people in a confined space. Jail is the last place we should be putting people.



Solitary confinement would seem a logical approach...


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## DCLane (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Solitary confinement would seem a logical approach...



That was my thought - how about using all the vacant hotel rooms?


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

DCLane said:


> That was my thought - how about using all the vacant hotel rooms?



I'm not sure what the hotel industry would say about that: who pays for the disinfection afterwards?


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## DCLane (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm not sure what the hotel industry would say about that: who pays for the disinfection afterwards?



Rooms have to be sanitised anyway as part of guidelines. And if they've got a block 4-week booking rather than nothing? We've tens of thousands of hotel rooms around the country just sat being unused. Local ones are being used to house asylum seekers near me since the hotel hasn't been able to take bookings.


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## Bazzer (4 Jan 2021)

Two more deaths. This time the grandparents of a work colleague.


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## classic33 (4 Jan 2021)

DCLane said:


> That was my thought - how about using all the vacant hotel rooms?


Hotel near the Town Hall was/is earmarked as overflow bed capacity for the local hospital, should the need arise.


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## Yellow Fang (4 Jan 2021)

Haven't got Covid, I don't think, but I have got a cold. How did I catch that? I have been in solitary for the past ten days.


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## roubaixtuesday (4 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Haven't got Covid, I don't think, but I have got a cold. How did I catch that? I have been in solitary for the past ten days.



Get a test


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Get a test



Doctors here seem to only test if you have a symptom and a fever, although that's based on my clients experiences not mine, and they tend to be "frequent flyers" in local health providers.


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## vickster (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Doctors here seem to only test if you have a symptom and a fever, although that's based on my clients experiences not mine, and they tend to be "frequent flyers" in local health providers.


Criteria for testing in UK...
https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test


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## lane (4 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Haven't got Covid, I don't think, but I have got a cold. How did I catch that? I have been in solitary for the past ten days.



Same here which is bit worrying. I haven't been in solitary but have had very little mixing with other people other than family. One thing I do think though - my cold symptoms came on Friday / Saturday. However I noticed may be a week before that my HR was surprisingly high when cycling although I felt OK but a bit sluggish which I put down to the cold weather. One thing that Covid has taught us is that symptoms can appear up to 14 days after infection and I imagine a cold will be the same as many are quite close related to Covid. I might have caught it before I broke up from work on the 17th.

Still if with all my precautions I can catch a cold I guess I can easily still catch covid.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> Criteria for testing in UK...
> https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test



That looks broadly similar. Because our health insurance is state mandated but organised largely through state owned companies, there's a possibility to pay for a test if you don't fit the criteria.


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## vickster (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> That looks broadly similar. Because our health insurance is state mandated but organised largely through state owned companies, there's a possibility to pay for a test if you don't fit the criteria.


You can get private tests here too as the link.
For example through the Patient Access App if registered


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## Yellow Fang (4 Jan 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Get a test


I would have to pay as I don't have the symptoms.


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## Slick (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I'm not sure what the hotel industry would say about that: who pays for the disinfection afterwards?


We use hotels to accommodate our apprentices and apparently if you are offering accommodation in the UK today, you must be prepared to allow every guest to isolate in their room for the full duration and ensure they are looked after at no additional cost to the normal room tariff. The hotel would need to prepare the room after for the next guest at their cost. 👍


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## classic33 (4 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> Criteria for testing in UK...
> https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test


I got stopped in the street on Thursday and asked if I'd like to have a test, no questions other than those required for the test itself.


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## vickster (4 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> I got stopped in the street on Thursday and asked if I'd like to have a test, no questions other than those required for the test itself.


Presumably a study of some sort and you can’t wander around hoping to get asked to have a test (certainly not now)!
If suspect have Covid from the key symptoms (not a stuffy nose), isolate and get tested


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## roubaixtuesday (4 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I would have to pay as I don't have the symptoms.



Just modify your symptoms slightly


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## classic33 (4 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> Presumably a study of some sort and you can’t wander around hoping to get asked to have a test (certainly not now)!
> If suspect have Covid from the key symptoms (not a stuffy nose), isolate and get tested


Two NHS run testing stations, centre of Bradford. I didn't wander around looking for a test, I was stopped going past, and asked if I like a test.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

It's not C-19 related but there is a specific category in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems for people who continually complain of or display symptoms for which there is no medical reason. 

It is a genuine Psychological issue, but I have a couple of people where I work who I'm fairly sure are making stuff up to get a doctor's note.


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## lane (4 Jan 2021)

It is of course open to anyone to get a test by lieing about Symptoms when you book the test online - no one at the test centre is actually going to check your symptoms - but if you don't have any what is the point


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## craigwend (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> It's not C-19 related but there is a specific category in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems for people who continually complain of or display symptoms for which there is no medical reason.
> 
> It is a genuine Psychological issue, but I have a couple of people where I work who I'm fairly sure are making stuff up to get a doctor's note.


It's also recognised generally as a medical condition which parallels Long Covid, also just because we haven't discovered / diagnosed a condition does not mean a condition does not exist...


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jan 2021)

craigwend said:


> It's also recognised generally as a medical condition which parallels Long Covid, also just because we haven't discovered / diagnosed a condition does not mean a condition does not exist...
> View attachment 567290



That's a specific C-19 related issue. I was speaking about a general Psychological condition that isn't C-19 related, where people can present symptoms of pain or digestive issues to name two, but there's no clinical basis for them. I have clients for whom this is an issue, this, but I also have a couple who claim a "headache" or similar and are classified the same way.


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## craigwend (4 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's a specific C-19 related issue. I was speaking about a general Psychological condition that isn't C-19 related, where people can present symptoms of pain or digestive issues to name two, but there's no clinical basis for them. I have clients for whom this is an issue, this, but I also have a couple who claim a "headache" or similar and are classified the same way.


It's a complex situation as some things we would class in the UK. As Medically Unexplained Symptoms (MUS) are often treated by specialist psychological therapy teams. However about 22 years ago after finishing my degree I was volunteering for MIND and the local ME (CFS) support group came and did a talk, how at that time seen as a psychological problem not considered a 'real illness' & the struggles / maltreatment many had encountered over many years. On a personal note my niece for many years had a MUS and at differing times been diagnosed / treatment for Lupid to Bipolar Disorder, before luckily' whilst having a relapse of symptoms the consultant on the ward recognised it ashttps://www.nhs.uk/conditions/neuromyelitis-optica/ - as he'd come across this before by shear luck. So in short I tend to be open minded (& not suggesting you're not)


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## Andy in Germany (5 Jan 2021)

craigwend said:


> It's a complex situation as some things we would class in the UK. As Medically Unexplained Symptoms (MUS) are often treated by specialist psychological therapy teams. However about 22 years ago after finishing my degree I was volunteering for MIND and the local ME (CFS) support group came and did a talk, how at that time seen as a psychological problem not considered a 'real illness' & the struggles / maltreatment many had encountered over many years. On a personal note my niece for many years had a MUS and at differing times been diagnosed / treatment for Lupid to Bipolar Disorder, before luckily' whilst having a relapse of symptoms the consultant on the ward recognised it ashttps://www.nhs.uk/conditions/neuromyelitis-optica/ - as he'd come across this before by shear luck. So in short I tend to be open minded (& not suggesting you're not)



I'm with you on this: fortunately we know our clients fairly well after a while. There are many who present symptoms for no obvious reason, usually psychosomatic and stress, depression or trauma related. We also have people who try and book a days holiday with less than 24h notice and when we don't let them do so, send a doctors note in the next day...


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## rich p (5 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> It is of course open to anyone to get a test by lieing about Symptoms when you book the test online - no one at the test centre is actually going to check your symptoms - but if you don't have any what is the point


Because the symptoms they require to qualify for a test are too narrow or out of date. My daughter and son in law both tested positive with other symptoms - back ache, tender skin and joints and a runny nose,. 
Both my partner and I developed similar symptoms after seeing them at Christmas but were not eligible for a test apparently. I fibbed slightly to get the test and we both got positive notification yesterday. It makes you wonder how many spreaders are at loose because they don't go for a test due to the narrow criteria


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## winjim (5 Jan 2021)

rich p said:


> Because the symptoms they require to qualify for a test are too narrow or out of date. My daughter and son in law both tested positive with other symptoms - back ache, tender skin and joints and a runny nose,.
> Both my partner and I developed similar symptoms after seeing them at Christmas but were not eligible for a test apparently. I fibbed slightly to get the test and we both got positive notification yesterday. It makes you wonder how many spreaders are at loose because they don't go for a test due to the narrow criteria


According to Tim Spector our testing criteria are woefully out of date and we should be testing anyone with symptoms like you describe. Basically anything flu-like or viral as I understand it.


----------



## Rocky (5 Jan 2021)

rich p said:


> Because the symptoms they require to qualify for a test are too narrow or out of date. My daughter and son in law both tested positive with other symptoms - back ache, tender skin and joints and a runny nose,.
> Both my partner and I developed similar symptoms after seeing them at Christmas but were not eligible for a test apparently. I fibbed slightly to get the test and we both got positive notification yesterday. It makes you wonder how many spreaders are at loose because they don't go for a test due to the narrow criteria


Hope you all recover soon, Rich - it’s a flipping miserable disease.


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## rich p (5 Jan 2021)

Rocky said:


> Hope you all recover soon, Rich - it’s a flipping miserable disease.


Cheers Rocky. I'm doing okay thanks but I wouldn't wish it on someone not as fit as fark....


----------



## winjim (5 Jan 2021)

winjim said:


> Just dropped the 5yo off at the valley of death. I give it a week, a fortnight tops.


A week. Didn't even manage twelve hours.


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## Bazzer (5 Jan 2021)

More deaths from Covid. 
Spouse of retired colleague and my boss's next door neighbour. The latter admitted to hospital Christmas Day, died two days later.


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## vickster (5 Jan 2021)

My uncle who'd been in a coma for a month passed away on Sunday (in Switzerland, not UK)


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## Yellow Fang (5 Jan 2021)

I did go for a test. Although I am not coughing much, I am a bit, and my job involves making site visits by train. I don't have a headache and I haven't lost my sense of smell. Apart from that, my symptoms were like Cluster 1 from this site.

Most the other people in the queue seemed to have pretty mild symptoms. The guy behind me was coughing, but no one else was. The woman in front of me looked middle aged, but most the others looked young.


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## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> if you don't have any what is the point


that is exactly the point. to find the positives, before they spread to others. when one doesn't have symptoms, is when one is most contagious


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## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> My uncle who'd been in a coma for a month passed away on Sunday (in Switzerland, not UK)


oh Dear, so sorry for your loss & for your family's. here's wishing you all strength right now & nothing but the best memories


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## lane (5 Jan 2021)

rockyroller said:


> that is exactly the point. to find the positives, before they spread to others. when one doesn't have symptoms, is when one is most contagious



OK so what criteria should [people use when deciding to get tested - that have no symptoms and feel fine?


----------



## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

winjim said:


> Just dropped the 5yo off at the valley of death. I give it a week, a fortnight tops.


what are you talking about? did you just lose a 5 yr old child?


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## vickster (5 Jan 2021)

rockyroller said:


> what are you talking about? did you just lose a 5 yr old child?


He meant school


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## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

vickster said:


> He meant school


oh whew! ok thanks. yeah our schools are closed then open then closed then open then closed etc etc etc


----------



## BoldonLad (5 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I would have to pay as I don't have the symptoms.



Fib (keep your fingers crossed whilst fibbing, and, it will be fine)


----------



## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> OK so what criteria should [people use when deciding to get tested - that have no symptoms and feel fine?


I believe the thinking is, everyone should be tested


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## lane (5 Jan 2021)

rockyroller said:


> I believe the thinking is, everyone should be tested



How often should everyone be tested?


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## winjim (5 Jan 2021)

rockyroller said:


> oh whew! ok thanks. yeah our schools are closed then open then closed then open then closed etc etc etc


Yeah, it was a reference to being forced to put my children in a dangerous and rather foolhardy situation essentially against my wishes.

They are both very much alive and hopefully virus free.


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## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> How often should everyone be tested?


I think that depends on one's activity, for example, doctors & nurses, every week I think


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## lane (5 Jan 2021)

rockyroller said:


> I think that depends on one's activity, for example, doctors & nurses, every week I think



Ok makes sense. We don't have capacity to test the whole population frequently though.


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## lane (5 Jan 2021)

winjim said:


> Yeah, it was a reference to being forced to put my children in a dangerous and rather foolhardy situation essentially against my wishes.
> 
> They are both very much alive and hopefully virus free.



Nonetheless it was very important that they experienced that single day of education it will make all the difference later in life, I'm sure you will agree.


----------



## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> Fib (keep your fingers crossed whilst fibbing, and, it will be fine)


the questions here are pretty easy, like out of breath? I'm a 62 yr old man, climbing 3 flights of stairs after quitting the gym for a year, sure I get out of breath, so technically I'm not lying


----------



## rockyroller (5 Jan 2021)

one problem w testing tho, as I understand it, if the infection moved out of your nose into your lungs, you can test negative with a nasal swab, but still be sick &/or contagious


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## winjim (5 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> Nonetheless it was very important that they experienced that single day of education it will make all the difference later in life, I'm sure you will agree.


The economy of 2046 would really suffer.


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## classic33 (5 Jan 2021)

Why is there such a difference in being able to get a test?

Four tests so far*, no symptoms/routine hospital visits, and I'm asked if I want to be tested. Others can't even get one test.

*Offered another two on Saturday, but declined them.


----------



## Andy in Germany (5 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Why is there such a difference in being able to get a test?
> 
> Four tests so far*, no symptoms/hospital visits, and I'm asked if I want to be tested. Others can't even get one test.
> 
> *Offered another two on Saturday, but declined them.



Hmm, what are they seeing, I wonder?


----------



## classic33 (5 Jan 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Hmm, what are they seeing, I wonder?


I wasn't the only one stopped, and they have no knowledge of my medical history.


----------



## BoldonLad (5 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Why is there such a difference in being able to get a test?
> 
> Four tests so far*, no symptoms/routine hospital visits, and I'm asked if I want to be tested. Others can't even get one test.
> 
> *Offered another two on Saturday, but declined them.



Perhaps, it depends on the area?

I am in South Tyneside, no sign of random testings, as far as I am aware, but, on a recent cycle ride through North Tyneside (same tier level at the time, ie tier 3 then), I encountered several signs for "walk-in" testing centres.


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## lane (5 Jan 2021)

Some places are doing random testing - Liverpool was a while ago. I would have thought it would be London and The South East if anywhere now.


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## SpokeyDokey (6 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> Some places are doing random testing - Liverpool was a while ago. I would have thought it would be London and The South East if anywhere now.



The daily new cases figure re new variant was on the wane in yesterday's briefing charts for both London and the SE.

Seems to me that T4 was working ok there.


----------



## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Encouraging


----------



## newfhouse (6 Jan 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> The daily new cases figure re new variant was on the wane in yesterday's briefing charts for both London and the SE.
> 
> Seems to me that T4 was working ok there.


How fast and how far does it need to drop for the measures to be considered as working OK and then suitable for relaxation? You may be right but I’d prefer that we keep the pressure on until there’s a long term dip in the figures and significant vaccine deployment.

I recognise that is easy for me to say as I have a secure job that can be partly done remotely, a home office in which to work, and no school age kids. I have great sympathy with those in different circumstances.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (6 Jan 2021)

newfhouse said:


> How fast and how far does it need to drop for the measures to be considered as working OK and then suitable for relaxation? You may be right but I’d prefer that we keep the pressure on until there’s a long term dip in the figures and significant vaccine deployment.
> 
> I recognise that is easy for me to say as I have a secure job that can be partly done remotely, a home office in which to work, and no school age kids. I have great sympathy with those in different circumstances.



I can't really answer your question tbh.

I think the moot point is that the graphs displayed either give you hope or reason for dismay.

With all the other graphs displayed on the same slide heading north it was heartening to see the two areas first affected by new variant heading south. 

That, and the very rapid achievement of +1 million 'jabs', gave me some hope that we are making some progress towards happier times.

It must be a hard call to make when trends are heading down but precautionary measure are being ramped up as per these two areas. The same happened in Liverpool when some parts were flattening in terms of infection rates following T3 implementation but were then shifted into T4 along with their somewhat behind the curve neighbours.

If the trend continues downwards in London and the SE maybe that's where we can look to see where the likely endpoint of full lockdown will be as they could well be the first to be released for want of a better term?


----------



## newfhouse (6 Jan 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I can't really answer your question tbh.


Sorry SD, I quoted you but wasn’t demanding that you provide better answers than I can.

As a general feeling I’d prefer that we don’t make the same mistakes again and unlock too quickly. Not yet from my immediate circle fortunately, but I’m hearing of deaths and hospitalisations at only a couple of degrees of separation here in London this time round. My wife knows a paramedic quite well and is hearing grim tales of ambulances queuing outside hospitals in a way that hasn’t been seen previously.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (6 Jan 2021)

newfhouse said:


> *Sorry SD, I quoted you but wasn’t demanding that you provide better answers than I can.
> 
> As a general feeling I’d prefer that we don’t make the same mistakes again and unlock too quickly. *Not yet from my immediate circle fortunately, but I’m hearing of deaths and hospitalisations at only a couple of degrees of separation here in London this time round. My wife knows a paramedic quite well and is hearing grim tales of ambulances queuing outside hospitals in a way that hasn’t been seen previously.



I wish it was possible to qualify likes!

Bolded is the liked part and the rest is obviously sad.

On the upside we personally now know of 7 people in their 80's that have had their initial jabs - the top line figure is good but it becomes more impactful to an extent when it is happening to people you know.

Maybe we need a Covid Good News thread to provide some sense of hope!


----------



## vickster (6 Jan 2021)

It's about 1k /100k cases here according to the BBC case checker 
...I'd personally like it back down to 100/100k as it was for a long time before relaxing (and actual compliance with the regs that remain afterwards)!!

(but again it doesn't really affect me, especially as the moment as I can't easily go out anyhow and I can wfh ...pretty much only going out for quick visits home to see the cat and hospital on Friday!  )


----------



## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Parents getting their vacination today - well hope my mum does as she has allergies and they weren't sure to start with


----------



## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Deaths back over 1,000 today and they say it will get worse before it gets better. Very Grim!


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## Yellow Fang (6 Jan 2021)

I wish they'd hurry up with my test result. I'm pretty sure I haven't got it though. I was coughing during the night and I was thinking here it comes. This is day 3, by day 7 I should know if I am going to live or not. Today I have just straightforward cold symptoms. Normally I take some lemsips and struggle into work, but I can't go coughing and spluttering anywhere now. I really don't know how I could have caught it.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (6 Jan 2021)

Lovely Wife has just volunteered to be a Steward Volunteer at vaccine sites.


----------



## lane (6 Jan 2021)

lane said:


> Parents getting their vacination today - well hope my mum does as she has allergies and they weren't sure to start with



Dad got his and is booked in for second dose in exactly 12 weeks! All OK no problems so far.

Mum who is allergic to peanuts refused (although this seems to go against criteria reported in the media) although they said she can have the Oxford one but they don't have any stocks currently.


----------



## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> I wish they'd hurry up with my test result. I'm pretty sure I haven't got it though. I was coughing during the night and I was thinking here it comes. This is day 3, by day 7 I should know if I am going to live or not. Today I have just straightforward cold symptoms. Normally I take some lemsips and struggle into work, but I can't go coughing and spluttering anywhere now. I really don't know how I could have caught it.



I really am the same. Started off with a sore throat which had gone this morning but now am a bit wheezy and started coughing - definitely think its a cold as that is a typical progression with having asthma, and the cough is not what I would call continuous and I have no other symptoms. Still if the cough becomes more frequent guess I would have to get a test. Like you I am so careful surprised and a bit worried I caught it.


----------



## lazybloke (6 Jan 2021)

A good mate at work and his wife have both come down with Covid. He's been delirious from fever for days, and the fatigue sounds absolutely brutal. He's in his late 40s, and I assume he'll be okay but only time will tell.


We're both keyworkers who have to travel during lockdown, so it's a little sobering to realise he may have contracted this through his work.


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## Landsurfer (6 Jan 2021)

In many ways, as a family, we are quite lucky.
We had the virus go through the family in April, the girls where ill with all the symptoms, but just for a day each, on consecutive days !
I was ill for about 4 days, then recovered over a couple of days. 
I have an incredibly robust immune system.
Connor, 16, showed no symptoms, and Julie is on a considerable package of meds so were not sure what happened with her ... she was rough for 6 days.
Mine was a confirmed case by testing and we did the isolation thing.
So are we immune, we do all the mask and distance stuff but pretty much get on with our life ... our youngest, 3, gets all the bugs from nursery as usual so it would be difficult to tell with him.
We don't know anyone else that has tested positive and work has remained clear ...
The girls are at primary school and we just cruise on .....
Lets see how the government manage to snatch disaster from the jaws of success .... but i genuinely hope the vaccine programme works ...
I'm a key worker and travel extensively on a daily basis and sometimes overnight stops are required but my interaction with others is minimal.


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## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Although you don't know you are immune or how long immuity lasts at least according to the scientists.


----------



## Landsurfer (6 Jan 2021)

The Scientists .... ? ... Witless ? Ferguson ? .... mmmm
I watched that movie they did with the pirates ... brilliant...


----------



## DCLane (6 Jan 2021)

SWMBO's been on the front-line of this since March with research into new ways of feeding patients with Covid-19, Covid recovery patients and since last September live Covid patients. Basically if you're on a ventilator she will sort out your tube feed to help keep you alive.

Her wards are full and she's now got further problems: they're running out of staff to care for the patients because her colleagues are catching it.


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## lane (6 Jan 2021)

Landsurfer said:


> The Scientists .... ? ... Witless ? Ferguson ? .... mmmm
> I watched that movie they did with the pirates ... brilliant...



Previously when I replied to one of your posts I said we had 80,000 excess deaths and now it seems certain we will be looking at 100,000 +.


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## Yellow Fang (7 Jan 2021)

Positive! Have to self isolate until next Wednesday. Luckily I have stocked up on dry noodles.


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## Oldhippy (7 Jan 2021)

Bugger. Take care.


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## SpokeyDokey (7 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Positive! Have to self isolate until next Wednesday. Luckily I have stocked up on dry noodles.



Sorry to hear that. 10 days of dry noodles doesn't sound like much fun either.


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## vickster (7 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Positive! Have to self isolate until next Wednesday. Luckily I have stocked up on dry noodles.


Get a delivery of fresh food?
Get well soon


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## Drago (7 Jan 2021)

Well, Mrs D was deputy head of year in a very large school (2200 brats  children).

Besause of her MS, a rather unpleasant autoimmune disease, the principal moved her out of that job and made her his personal assistant for the same salary. She gets her own office, is physically isolated, and actually works better hours because she always finishes bang on time.

In addition to the PA role she has now been put in charge of the covid task force at the school, and has 7 personnel reporting to her. This has brought her a jump of 3 pay scales and an 8 grand pay rise, so while she never engineered it that the the virus situation has worked quite nicely for her.

It makes little difference day to day for me petsonally. Mini D is still eligible to go to school as Mrs D is classed as a key worker, and I am too (category 2 responder- voluntary front line staff) as an on call SAR Search Manager, so day to day it's made precipus little difference to my daily routine.


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## Bazzer (8 Jan 2021)

Yesterday Mrs B spoke with a friend of hers who had been of those denying Covid was causing the deaths claimed for it. Now with two less family members in Northern Ireland, her view has changed.


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## Oldhippy (8 Jan 2021)

Funny how reality can jolt people's perceptions.


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## Unkraut (8 Jan 2021)

My sister lives in a block of retirement flats in north Kent that for a while had the highest infection rate in the country. Phoned a couple of days ago to say they have finally had their first resident test positive and taken to hospital. I hope it hasn't already had a chance to spread, many there are old and vulnerable.


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## Yellow Fang (8 Jan 2021)

More or less over it now. Just have to wait until next Thursday before I can go out. One thing that concerns me is that usually when I have a cold and it gets on my lungs it takes me about three weeks before I finally stop coughing. I wasn't coughing much, but I was a bit. It wasn't quite a dry cough neither.


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## Bazzer (8 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> More or less over it now. Just have to wait until next Thursday before I can go out. One thing that concerns me is that usually when I have a cold and it gets on my lungs it takes me about three weeks before I finally stop coughing. I wasn't coughing much, but I was a bit. It wasn't quite a dry cough neither.


Hopefully it stays away from your lungs. Child 2 was believed to have been infected about a week before the national lockdown last March. She quickly became breathless when on her bike with me, after we thought the infection had passed and it took several weeks before her lungs are thought to have recovered properly.


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## Yellow Fang (8 Jan 2021)

Bazzer said:


> Hopefully it stays away from your lungs. Child 2 was believed to have been infected about a week before the national lockdown last March. She quickly became breathless when on her bike with me, after we thought the infection had passed and it took several weeks before her lungs are thought to have recovered properly.


Was she considered infectious?


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## Bazzer (8 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Was she considered infectious?


This was, as I recall, before testing was commonplace. IIRC, you were only tested if you were hospitalised. 
If you had symptoms you were considered infectious and supposed to self isolate for 14 days. So she was sent home from college as soon as she showed signs of being unwell. Our house went into isolation and we had food delivered by friends and family. 
At the time cases were growing rapidly and hospitals seemed to be the most infectious places, so considering that as a last resort, we did what we could to manage her symptoms at home. Fortunately, I have at home a supply of O2, so we managed her symptoms, (which were way beyond a cold or flu), with that and drugs we had in the house.


----------



## Andy in Germany (9 Jan 2021)

The trains were lightly loaded today between Stuttgart and Freiburg; the police wandered through at one point checking on masks: these are mandatory on trains a and in stations. 

Everyone I saw followed this except one charmer who didn't just wander down a platform without a mask but took the opportunity to gob on the floor as well. Unfortunately this was a minor station and there were no police present...


----------



## fossyant (13 Jan 2021)

Catch up at work this morning and asked how the 'team' I share an office with were. We're in an office of around 20, two finance, three student support and 15 Marketing.

Many of the younger staff live in flats and had just started to stagger when they were coming back into the office to maintain social distancing (we can get 6 in the office of 20 desks). All had commented how their mental health had improved, but their manager said she could see over Teams how 'fed up' everyone was with the latest restrictions - back to working from the settee for many.

Going to be a long haul for everyone.


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## accountantpete (13 Jan 2021)

Some good news - lets hope it is the start



https://order-order.com/2021/01/13/covid-admissions-start-to-fall-in-london-and-south-east/


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## Unkraut (13 Jan 2021)

accountantpete said:


> Some good news - lets hope it is the start
> 
> 
> 
> https://order-order.com/2021/01/13/covid-admissions-start-to-fall-in-london-and-south-east/


It is good news, but absolutely no reason for any complacency. 

I was bothered by the sentence _This is the reason many Tory MPs will be demanding No. 10 doesn’t launch a new swathe of anti-freedom lockdown measures…_ at the end of the piece. Is this a warning or approval? The lockdown measures are not designed to be 'anti-freedom' (although that is the effect) but to slow down the spread thereby averting a disaster in hospitals. The reason for the rapid spread surely is due at least in part to too many claiming a 'freedom' not to obey the rules designed to stop it.


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## SpokeyDokey (13 Jan 2021)

accountantpete said:


> Some good news - lets hope it is the start
> 
> 
> 
> https://order-order.com/2021/01/13/covid-admissions-start-to-fall-in-london-and-south-east/



That was looking likely on the slides present by Boris & Co prior to Lockdown v3.

Both London and the SE were plateauing whilst all other regions were rising sharply.

Good news indeed and let's hope it continues - I think it will FWIW.


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## Yellow Fang (13 Jan 2021)

Allowed out tomorrow. I've been told it doesn't matter if I still have a cough provided I've no temperature. Symptoms sometimes linger. I am looking forward to, er, going to the supermarket.


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## Yellow Fang (13 Jan 2021)

I had a zoom meeting with my erstwhile running club friends. One said a neighbour had died and another was seriously ill. Another said her lodger was proper poorly with it. He was a taxi driver who refused to stop work until he had to, so that doesn't sound so great. Another friend said five of his family had had it, including his 86-year-old mother, who is currently sick at his home. She has Covid pleurisy. Don't know if Covid pleurisy is any worse than the standard kind, but pleurisy is notorious for carrying old people off. It all sounds a fair bit worse than the first time around.


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## Beebo (14 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> More or less over it now. Just have to wait until next Thursday before I can go out. One thing that concerns me is that usually when I have a cold and it gets on my lungs it takes me about three weeks before I finally stop coughing. I wasn't coughing much, but I was a bit. It wasn't quite a dry cough neither.


Be careful as I thought I was over it after 8 days, but my lungs started playing up on day 9 as my oxygen levels tanked. It took me another 10 days to shift it. 
My cough wasn’t dry, it was quite chesty.


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## Yellow Fang (14 Jan 2021)

Beebo said:


> Be careful as I thought I was over it after 8 days, but my lungs started playing up on day 9 as my oxygen levels tanked. It took me another 10 days to shift it.
> My cough wasn’t dry, it was quite chesty.



Mine's chesty too. Still, they did tell me I could stop self-isolating unless I had a temperature. My calf is sore; I think it's the lack of exercise. I think I lost weight.


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## vickster (14 Jan 2021)

Yellow Fang said:


> Mine's chesty too. Still, they did tell me I could stop self-isolating unless I had a temperature. My calf is sore; I think it's the lack of exercise. I think I lost weight.


Sore how? Covid can do weird things to blood consistency, any concerns it could be a clot, seek medical help


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## HarryTheDog (15 Jan 2021)

Well up to now no member of my family lwere affected now that has changed. My Missus's mother has been in a care home for 6 years with Alzheimer's and we got a call Wednesday before last that she was about to expire with a chest infection ( not Covid) they relaxed the rules on visiting so my missus and her siblings were allowed to visit. She did not expire at that time so she went 4 times and was tested all 4 times, all negative.
There is Covid in the home though. The lady in the room next to her mum has it.
So this Sunday she starts to feel ill, got a test and had a positive result on Tuesday, i got tested and had a -ve result on Wednesday.
The only place my missus could have contracted it was the care home or when we had done a food shop.

Wednesday we got a call from the care home, come quick she is really about to expire now. Off course my missus could not go. Her mum passed away in the evening, the eldest daughter was with her and she went peacefully.
I rang my 2 kids (adults) last night to tell them the news, so my son also drops the bombshell, that his girlfriends Dad now has it, now they live with her parents so they are isolating as well. ( they have tested -ve) .

The big worry is that one we both have it but also the only other person we have been in contact with is my partners eldest who has bad anxiety problems, asthma, sleep apnoea and is morbidly obese. If he gets it then he is in big trouble. He has no symptoms at all , lives by himself and has no contact with anyone apart from his mum.


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## Ajax Bay (17 Jan 2021)

Unkraut said:


> They have discovered that some of those injected have subsequently become infected.


In the early days after the first dose, the immunity/resistance will not be present so it would be surprising (statistically) if people did NOT become infected, say in the first 10 days. But after that the trials suggest both increasing immunity and less severe symptoms if infected (and recall the 90% effective corollary: 10% ineffective).
https://youtube.be/fn3KWM1kuAw


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## Unkraut (17 Jan 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> In the early days after the first dose, the immunity/resistance will not be present so it would be surprising (statistically) if people did NOT become infected,


It would be wrong to read too much into one care home.

I moved my post to the Covid vaccine thread as it seemed more relevant to that one, your post crossed in the post as it were!


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## Drago (17 Jan 2021)

FIL having to isolate after having been in close contact with someone who's tested positive. Unfortunately, hes MIL's carer, which means BIL is having to do it while FIL isolates. Im sure theyll be fine, but its going to be a trying time for them.


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## Yellow Fang (23 Jan 2021)

My employers have told me I have to take unpaid leave for the days I had to self-isolate. I asked them if I could take sick leave for the days I was too ill to work.


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## HarryTheDog (27 Jan 2021)

Well following on from my last post my missus came through Covid fairly unscathed , even though she is also grieving for her mums death. I again tested -ve after we came out of isolation.( I must be the Teflon Kid)
Then yesterday her morbidly obesse son tested +ve . The only person he had come into contact was his mum over 2 weeks ago before she tested +ve. My missus was initially distraught thinking he was about to get very ill and die . Then we worked out from his symptoms ( mainly just loss of smell) that he must be at the end of it from when he probably caught it. 
The really weird thing he is feeling better than ever as this is the first week since he has had a fitbit ( 6 months) that he has actually recorded being asleep for a few hours every night.( he suffers from sleep apnea) He also looks better.
However he has the automatic isolation order from the NHS and will miss his Nan's funeral on Friday.

A little footnote, my son and partner are fine and so is his girlfriends dad. This COVID seems so much more virulent now, when my missus rang the funeral director he was just returning from isolation and when I told the window company they could now come and fit our new front door they couldn't as they were in isolation as some of their fitters had Covid and had closed the company for the moment.


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## johnblack (27 Jan 2021)

Did an anti body test yesterday, came back negative, I've never felt like I'd had it, but it would've been nice to have been asymptomatic at some point and have some antibodies in the system.


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## MrGrumpy (27 Jan 2021)

As a family we have had no positive tests so far, however my wife has had the Pfizer vaccine, 1st dose. So hopefully she will be ok now till the rest of us catch up in due course.
Funny thing she was quite ill a year past December there, high temp. Absolutely floored . Took a week or so to recover. Myself, last summer whilst on holiday in our caravan, got a severe dose of the monty zoomers , out of nowhere. Temperature went on for about a week. Doctor reckoned it was gastrointeristist . No sure how that works as we we were all washing hands etc. I just put it down to food poisoning


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## vickster (27 Jan 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> As a family we have had no positive tests so far, however my wife has had the Pfizer vaccine, 1st dose. So hopefully she will be ok now till the rest of us catch up in due course.
> Funny thing she was quite ill a year past December there, high temp. Absolutely floored . Took a week or so to recover. Myself, last summer whilst on holiday in our caravan, got a severe dose of the monty zoomers , out of nowhere. Temperature went on for about a week. Doctor reckoned it was gastrointeristist . No sure how that works as we we were all washing hands etc. I just put it down to food poisoning


Bacterial, viral or parasitic infection from food (or water) causes gastroenteritis (it's a symptom not a disease per se)

*Gastroenteritis:* Inflammation of the stomach and the intestines. Gastroenteritis can cause nausea, vomiting, and diarrhoea. Gastroenteritis has numerous causes, including infections (viruses, bacteria, and parasites), food poisoning, and stress.

The most common *cause* of *gastroenteritis* is a viral or bacterial infection, and less commonly parasitic infection. The most common *causes* of viral *gastroenteritis* are norovirus and rotavirus. Escherichia coli (E. coli), Salmonella and Campylobacter are the most common *causes* of bacterial *gastroenteritis*.


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## MrGrumpy (27 Jan 2021)

Yep , it probably was something like that although I’ve had gastroenteritis before years ago in a dodgy Benidorm hotel. It was very unpleasant!!! This recent episode was different.


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## vickster (27 Jan 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yep , it probably was something like that although I’ve had gastroenteritis before years ago in a dodgy Benidorm hotel. It was very unpleasant!!! This recent episode was different.


Like any condition, gastroenteritis symptoms can range from mild to severe and even fatal


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## Rusty Nails (28 Jan 2021)

I and my wife have just had our appointment for a vaccination Friday, 5th at a local sports centre. We have just had a supermarket delivery so will be taking no chances for the next week to cock things up when we are so near.

On a less pleasant note I have heard today that an old grammar school friend of mine died with Covid this week aged 73. He was the most athletic boy and best at sport in the school, but he has not been in the best of health for some years. That's three out of around 35 due to this pandemic.


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## Joey Shabadoo (28 Jan 2021)

A colleague was telling me her cousin died last week. Mid 30s, lung condition of some kind. Absolutely fine on the Sunday, hale and hearty. Dead by Friday.


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## Yellow Fang (28 Jan 2021)

Seems to be going up and down the rail network. I was talking to the sim manager from Plymouth today. She said one of the instructors, who I know, had been on a ventilator. He is under 50, a bit overweight but not obese. I told another employee I sometimes share an office with that I'd had Covid. She said her sister and mother had had it. She said her mother tested positive for it ten days before she got ill. NHS track and trace only ask you for contacts two days before you show symptoms.


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## Andy in Germany (7 Feb 2021)

My parents have been in quarantine since the beginning of the first wave and have their first vaccination tomorrow.

Currently not sure when I'll get mine despite being in an "at risk" group and in a job where I have a higher exposure risk. Stereotypical German organisational genius seems to have gone on holiday when we need it most.


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## shep (7 Feb 2021)

The Boy has it, as does his Girlfriend and her Gran. (she lives there) 

They're both Prison Officers so isolating at hers (the Grans) pretty mild symptoms but the Gran is a bit roapy.


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## Milzy (7 Feb 2021)

Club mates dad just died from it. The only ones who I know from real life to succumb to the disease were old & frail. Known many to shrug it off in a week with no post virus fatigue syndrome. I actually believe I’m immune.


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## shep (7 Feb 2021)

Milzy said:


> Club mates dad just died from it. The only ones who I know from real life to succumb to the disease were old & frail. Known many to shrug it off in a week with no post virus fatigue syndrome. I actually believe I’m immune.


Same here, probably know half a dozen personally that had it and all seem ok.

Hopefully the vaccine will help.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (10 Feb 2021)

Wife gets her vaccination tomorrow so today a whole new outfit arrived, worth dressing up for. (in 11 months she's only left the house for Dr & Hospital appointments)


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## lane (10 Feb 2021)

shep said:


> Same here, probably know half a dozen personally that had it and all seem ok.
> 
> Hopefully the vaccine will help.



Just heard about an 11 year old with special needs - daughter of someone we know - in intensive care.


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

Spoke to a friend yesterday. His mum died of Covid between Christmas and New Year. Hospital acquired infection. She was 88 and in all probability was not expected to live many months due to other conditions.


----------



## MrGrumpy (12 Feb 2021)

Youngest Son had a mini break down through the week. Its all becoming a bit too much. Thinks my wife and I might croak it due to the virus... School work has drifted really as well and not helpful when we both work and not from home as not possible.  He`s perked up a bit guidance teacher reassured him etc and he will be checked on weekly for a walk etc. Normally quite a busy lad and care free but even 14yr olds get to breaking point. Ever hopeful he can get back to school after easter as not in touch at all with any of his peers.


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Youngest Son had a mini break down through the week. Its all becoming a bit too much. Thinks my wife and I might croak it due to the virus... School work has drifted really as well and not helpful when we both work and not from home as not possible.  He`s perked up a bit guidance teacher reassured him etc and he will be checked on weekly for a walk etc. Normally quite a busy lad and care free but even 14yr olds get to breaking point. Ever hopeful he can get back to school after easter as not in touch at all with any of his peers.



Mine have not had a mini break down but I do worry about the impact on their mental health and development. Missed two thirds or a year's schooling now.


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## vickster (12 Feb 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Youngest Son had a mini break down through the week. Its all becoming a bit too much. Thinks my wife and I might croak it due to the virus... School work has drifted really as well and not helpful when we both work and not from home as not possible.  He`s perked up a bit guidance teacher reassured him etc and he will be checked on weekly for a walk etc. Normally quite a busy lad and care free but even 14yr olds get to breaking point. Ever hopeful he can get back to school after easter as not in touch at all with any of his peers.


Can he not go to school if you are both unable to work from home? Maybe worth talking to the school?


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## steve292 (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> Mine have not had a mini break down but I do worry about the impact on their mental health and development. Missed two thirds or a year's schooling now.


I am the same. I worry about the lack of social interaction for my 2 more than the academic side of things to be honest.


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## AuroraSaab (12 Feb 2021)

The toll it is taking on youngsters and young people is heartbreaking. I know we are in a better situation than most but it's really been terrible for some kids. I just tell mine that all their friends are in the same boat, we'll get through it, and the best days are yet to come.


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## johnblack (12 Feb 2021)

AuroraSaab said:


> The toll it is taking on youngsters and young people is heartbreaking. I know we are in a better situation than most but it's really been terrible for some kids. I just tell mine that all their friends are in the same boat, we'll get through it, and the best days are yet to come.



They've got a lot of pent up energy to use, this summer could be a great time for the kids if the regulations allow. I think that there could be a large amount of rebellion if they see that they're still not allowed to do things even if all the older generations have been vaccinated.


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

johnblack said:


> They've got a lot of pent up energy to use, this summer could be a great time for the kids if the regulations allow. I think that there could be a large amount of rebellion if they see that they're still not allowed to do things even if all the older generations have been vaccinated.



Yes I just posted similar on the "back to normal thread". I find some of the messages coming out about restrictions until the autumn quire alarming and I think if so will stretch willingness to comply from many to breaking point - and in saying that I am not judging if the restrictions are needed or not because there may be good reasons.


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## AuroraSaab (12 Feb 2021)

Hopefully the meeting up in gardens, or groups in a park, will be the first relaxation. I know some kids will abuse it and start planning raves in the woods, but it would make a huge difference to most youngsters if they could have mates round for the afternoon.

Anyway, Morph's had his jab, so that's good to know. Bit concerned about Wallace though. Anybody heard anything?


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## johnblack (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> Yes I just posted similar on the "back to normal thread". I find some of the messages coming out about restrictions until the autumn quire alarming and I think if so will stretch willingness to comply from many to breaking point - and in saying that I am not judging if the restrictions are needed or not because there may be good reasons.


As soon as the hospitals clear and with the vaccination programme continuing at speed, it will be hard to hold back the tide and not just the kids !


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

One scientist quoted today as saying masks will be required for ever.


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## Rusty Nails (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> One scientist quoted today as saying masks will be required for ever.



In what context was required used?

Helpful, nice to have, legally required, indoors/outdoors?


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> One scientist quoted today as saying masks will be required for ever.



It would be nice to see the actual quote...


----------



## DaveReading (12 Feb 2021)

Van-Tam said as much at the beginning of December.


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> It would be nice to see the actual quote...



Read in on the BBC this morning - can't find it mow but here are two links

Professor John Edmunds

Some restrictions will last "probably forever"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/hea...hristmas-sage-scientist-predicts-b919359.html

And here masks probably for ever

View: https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1359877498121641986


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## MrGrumpy (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> Read in on the BBC this morning - can't find it mow but here are two links
> 
> Professor John Edmunds
> 
> ...



Just need to see mask use in the far east before all this !


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> Read in on the BBC this morning - can't find it mow but here are two links
> 
> Professor John Edmunds
> 
> ...




Thanks. All very unclear from that what he meant, I thought.


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## MrGrumpy (12 Feb 2021)

vickster said:


> Can he not go to school if you are both unable to work from home? Maybe worth talking to the school?


Asked for info, was looked into and we don`t qualify . We have made other arrangements.


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## Rusty Nails (12 Feb 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Thanks. All very unclear from that what he meant, I thought.



Pepper your forecasts with mays, probables, coulds and you’re covered one way or the other.


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## lane (12 Feb 2021)

It's actually interesting that part of the reason for the majority potentially not being able to returnto normal is the percentage of people unvaccinated and potentially creating pressure on the NHS. I think for those who have been vaccinated this will be an increasingly difficult sell.


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## AuroraSaab (12 Feb 2021)

I'm not finding the mask thing onerous at all. Nor the gel and hand-washing. Wiping down the groceries with disinfectant was tedious but I've stopped doing that. I have no objection to all that continuing. 

I often walk to the shop with my elderly neighbour to get groceries though. She has asthma and when she comes out of the shop she's gasping and needs her inhaler, which I've never seen her use in previous years. It will be very tough on her if the mask thing goes on all year. 

I think the high and immediate level of compliance with masks, distancing etc is one reason the likes of Taiwan have fared so well. They'd been through it with Sars.


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Thanks. All very unclear from that what he meant, I thought.



John Edmunds very knowledgeable as he is just tends to point out blindingly obvious things the media or other members of SAGE don't necessarily want to say clearly. He's worried about the E484K mutation that has appeared independently in two locations in the UK and twice in other bits of the world taking over eventually this year. John Edmunds is worried about if primary and secondary schools are open is R above 1. He's worried about those for whom vaccination doesn't prevent hospitalisation and also the roughly 53 million outside the priority groups. He's specifically said before about not being able to vaccinate children yet except a few that can have it off licence. He is actually fairly optimistic about what'll transpire, it's just his timelines are longer than open everything up in March/April/May that some want.

He said the rule of six may last a year and masks on public transport and venues such as supermarkets.


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2021)

AuroraSaab said:


> I'm not finding the mask thing onerous at all. Nor the gel and hand-washing. Wiping down the groceries with disinfectant was tedious but I've stopped doing that. I have no objection to all that continuing.
> 
> I often walk to the shop with my elderly neighbour to get groceries though. She has asthma and when she comes out of the shop she's gasping and needs her inhaler, which I've never seen her use in previous years. It will be very tough on her if the mask thing goes on all year.



Many settings over the summer/autumn will be settings where the law may not cover/cover any more face coverings. Communication, tone and norms matter a great deal then.

For example scenarios considered are what do you do if you offer something indoors in groups and it's allowed then and you can be pretty sure no one present has been vaccinated? What about if everyone refuses to use face coverings or impractical or everyone present is exempt and does not wear face coverings? I had to do a risk assessment and it's very challenging balancing up the different factors and protecting some of the more forgotten groups. Some others were quite shocked that without face coverings and social distancing things have to become smaller, which just goes to show you a year in not everyone is with the program still. And things ceasing, or continuing to be done on-line would be a grave mistake with consequences and to a lesser extent it'd be sad that people miss out as some won't wear a face covering.


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## lane (13 Feb 2021)

In circumstances where face coverings are not mandatory, or in my experience where in some parts of the building they are and some they aren't, the different expectations of individuals is marked. Together with many clearly having little idea of how the virus might spread, can certainly make it very difficult and stressful for some.


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## marinyork (14 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> It's actually interesting that part of the reason for the majority potentially not being able to returnto normal is the percentage of people unvaccinated and potentially creating pressure on the NHS. I think for those who have been vaccinated this will be an increasingly difficult sell.



In the second wave because hospitalisations went up to a peak of about 40,000 from a media point of view, not a medical one, this is potentially very hard to convince the public. We may be in a position in early March where hospitalisations are below 10,000 and this is seen as a fantastic result and so not worth reporting a short time after that happens. In a similar vein last summer the lowest hospitalisations went was roughly around 1,000. With restrictions and vaccines we should really aim to be going lower than this.

An unpleasant scenario is if things rip and people over 50 realise to their horror that hospitals are filling up in smaller numbers with those of their children and children's friends or having to care for their children with long covid. The risk spread of hospitalisation is very different to that of death. Someone in their 30s is only merely half as likely to be hospitalised as someone aged 50-64 (US CDC), whereas the death comparison is 7.5x more likely to to die for a 50-64 year old. Would society see this as acceptable if it happened?

In the colour charts by age groups in many locations whenever there is a big surge you can see in the case rates that people in their late 60s and early 70s are able to shield to some reasonable extent vs other groups. For obvious reasons. This offers the issue that you want people to be able to do normal things but you've just vaccinated a group that are fairly good at shielding so when things open up you don't necessarily get big wins in drops in transmission vs now. In other age groups there are big wins though. I think group 6 debates are about to kick off, this is going to be much more problematic of who's in it and too many variations vs other groups.


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## lane (14 Feb 2021)

marinyork said:


> In the second wave because hospitalisations went up to a peak of about 40,000 from a media point of view, not a medical one, this is potentially very hard to convince the public. We may be in a position in early March where hospitalisations are below 10,000 and this is seen as a fantastic result and so not worth reporting a short time after that happens. In a similar vein last summer the lowest hospitalisations went was roughly around 1,000. With restrictions and vaccines we should really aim to be going lower than this.
> 
> An unpleasant scenario is if things rip and people over 50 realise to their horror that hospitals are filling up in smaller numbers with those of their children and children's friends or having to care for their children with long covid. The risk spread of hospitalisation is very different to that of death. Someone in their 30s is only merely half as likely to be hospitalised as someone aged 50-64 (US CDC), whereas the death comparison is 7.5x more likely to to die for a 50-64 year old. Would society see this as acceptable if it happened?
> 
> In the colour charts by age groups in many locations whenever there is a big surge you can see in the case rates that people in their late 60s and early 70s are able to shield to some reasonable extent vs other groups. For obvious reasons. This offers the issue that you want people to be able to do normal things but you've just vaccinated a group that are fairly good at shielding so when things open up you don't necessarily get big wins in drops in transmission vs now. In other age groups there are big wins though. I think group 6 debates are about to kick off, this is going to be much more problematic of who's in it and too many variations vs other groups.



That all makes sense but I am unsure of the direct relevance to my quote. My point was, once everyone has been offered the vacination, the biggest risk to hospitalisations will be those refusing the vaccination and having restrictions continuing to protect them will be a hard sell. However it's probably now a bit irrelevant as we appear to be heading for a rapid opening up so we will see how that goes.


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## marinyork (14 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> That all makes sense but I am unsure of the direct relevance to my quote. My point was, once everyone has been offered the vacination, the biggest risk to hospitalisations will be those refusing the vaccination and having restrictions continuing to protect them will be a hard sell. However it's probably now a bit irrelevant as we appear to be heading for a rapid opening up so we will see how that goes.



It'll be a long, long time till everyone is offered the vaccine vs timescales of opening up. Which is what you are saying too.

I and many others may not be getting jabs till August. It may be earlier. The media are getting ahead of themselves a bit and forgetting about the 2nd jab slowdown which is coming.

Those who refuse vaccination could be in hospital but also many in the small group of people who vaccines don't stop hospitalisation. A small percentage out of a big group is still a sizeable number. John Edmunds combined both groups.

It's unclear to me when a likely date for secondary school pupils would come about also.

Restrictions won't continue for those unvaccinated by choice, I agree. Nor is it clear that many in that group would want restrictions to carry on anyway!


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## Ajax Bay (14 Feb 2021)

marinyork said:


> It's unclear to me when a likely date for secondary school pupils would come about also.


My calculations (see in other threads and I've included 50% of being given as second doses from about 14 Mar (84 days after 20 Dec)) suggest *all over 18s* will have been vaccinated (or offered an appointment in next 7 days) *by end August*. So, provided the recently announced 6-16 trial is a success, the start of the September term (?5Sep) might be an excellent time to vaccinate successive year groups of pupils. There are about 5M aged 11-18 in UK. At current vaccination rates (NB in September half the rate would go on second doses from the June 'first-doses'), that'd take about 3 weeks. You'd think that single sites with 'captive' adolescents would mean this could be done rather efficiently and achieve high take-up. Would need to take care to allow proper informed consent.
Overall UK population estimate is 67M and of those ~4M are <4 and 10M are school age.


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## marinyork (14 Feb 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> My calculations (see in other threads and I've included 50% of being given as second doses from about 14 Mar (84 days after 20 Dec)) suggest *all over 18s* will have been vaccinated (or offered an appointment in next 7 days) *by end August*. So, provided the recently announced 6-16 trial is a success, the start of the September term (?5Sep) might be an excellent time to vaccinate successive year groups of pupils. There are about 5M aged 11-18 in UK. At current vaccination rates (NB half the rate would go on second doses from June), that'd take about 3 weeks. You'd think that single sites with 'captive' adolescents would mean this could be done rather efficiently and achieve high take-up. Would need to take care to allow proper informed consent.
> Overall UK population estimate is 67M and of those ~4M are <4 and 10M are school age.



I know all that.

It's very unclear it will be given emergency licensing for the start of September. Even September there are issues having to get through sizeable parts of the population not vaccinated yet and which parts of life should take priority over others. Even if it were the rest has to go to plan till then as well. 

Doing group 1-4 is great, but it's only the start. It sorts out most of the deaths, some of the problem of hospitalisations but does not so much for risks when things 'open up'. There's a huge way to go and vaccines are but one part of the picture.

The 15-19 or 14-17 age range (differs on datasets) are ones that are more problematic than I think scientists and politicians let on, for fear of a political quagmire of things spiralling out of context. It's not a blame game and school/college/uni is very important. It's a difficult situation getting those ages through to september where we might be able to vaccinate just in time for a 3rd wave.


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## fossyant (14 Feb 2021)

The younger lot are suffering. My son is on AD's and we struggle to get him out of bed - we're trying to stop the 'all night on the computer' for our own health. He agrees, then forgets... It's crap for their age group as they don't have the life experience to deal with this - why get up, I can't do anything, why bother ?

He's complaining of back pain... I'm like, too much time in bed, too much time in a chair at your computer (roken spine here). He won't even fiddle with his car as it's too cold. What do you do - hearing similar issues from other parent's of 'young adults'. 

It's crap, but the virus spreads fast in those asymptomatic.


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## lane (14 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> The younger lot are suffering. My son is on AD's and we struggle to get him out of bed - we're trying to stop the 'all night on the computer' for our own health. He agrees, then forgets... It's crap for their age group as they don't have the life experience to deal with this - why get up, I can't do anything, why bother ?
> 
> He's complaining of back pain... I'm like, too much time in bed, too much time in a chair at your computer (roken spine here). He won't even fiddle with his car as it's too cold. What do you do - hearing similar issues from other parent's of 'young adults'.
> 
> It's crap, but the virus spreads fast in those asymptomatic.



My daughter went down hill noticeably during the first lockdown. She is 15. Not so bad this time so far but starting to see worrying signs. Hope she is able to get back to school in 3 weeks.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Feb 2021)

marinyork said:


> Restrictions won't continue for those unvaccinated by choice, I agree. Nor is it clear that many in that group would want restrictions to carry on anyway!



Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit. 
As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!


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## Julia9054 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit.
> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!


Otherwise known as the ostrich position


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## classic33 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit.
> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!


And put us right back where we started?

Presumably you'll have no need of any medical help in your future. Nor care about others.


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## Rocky (14 Feb 2021)

Julia9054 said:


> Otherwise known as the ostrich position


The selfish ostrich position


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## PK99 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit.
> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!



What complete and utter f***wittery.


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## lane (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit.
> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!



Do you think people who are not vaccinated, but develop Covid should be treated in hospital if they become very unwell?


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> Do you think people who are not vaccinated, but develop Covid should be treated in hospital if they become very unwell?



If they're legal residents, and pay their taxes, then yes they should be treated as they've paid into the system. After all, smokers still get treated when they get ill and they know full well that smoking is bad for them.


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## PK99 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If they're legal residents, and pay their taxes, then yes they should be treated as they've paid into the system. After all, smokers still get treated when they get ill and they know full well that smoking is bad for them.



Smokers are banned from pubs.

Non vaccinated should be banned from pubs?


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## classic33 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If they're legal residents, and pay their taxes, then yes they should be treated as they've paid into the system. After all, smokers still get treated when they get ill and they know full well that smoking is bad for them.


Where's the "jab" that will stop you smoking though!

You refuse treatment, you have to sign a form normally. It's a simple statement that help was offered, but declined.

I've signed enough of these in A&E's and the back of ambulance's over the years.


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## Julia9054 (14 Feb 2021)

PK99 said:


> Smokers are banned from pubs.
> 
> Non vaccinated should be banned from pubs?


Smoking is banned from pubs not smokers


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## lane (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If they're legal residents, and pay their taxes, then yes they should be treated as they've paid into the system. After all, smokers still get treated when they get ill and they know full well that smoking is bad for them.



The reason I asked, is because what you fail to understand, or possibly don't want to accept, is that if insufficient people are vaccinated, not just vulnerable but also other age groups, it still may not be possible to open up the economy (which is what you want) without overwhelming the NHS. Therefore restrictions may continue, which you don't want. If you were happy for those not vaccinated to be refused hospital treatment then fair enough, but as you are not, your whole approach is fatally flawed I am afraid.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Feb 2021)

In a months time, we'll be in a situation where it won't matter how many virus infections we get, it won't directly translate into hospitalisations. The winter flu season will also be over by then, so respiratory hospitalisations will fall off further because of that.


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## lane (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> In a months time, we'll be in a situation where it won't matter how many virus infections we get, it won't directly translate into hospitalisations. The winter flu season will also be over by then, so respiratory hospitalisations will fall off further because of that.



40% of those hospitalised for covid are under 55. So I think you are wrong in your assumption.


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## marinyork (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> In a months time, we'll be in a situation where it won't matter how many virus infections we get, it won't directly translate into hospitalisations. The winter flu season will also be over by then, so respiratory hospitalisations will fall off further because of that.



Perception may be something along those lines.

I believe the figures that influence behaviour and perceptions are primarily deaths, the headline hospitalisations the new benchmark is 40,000, so you're probably right about how large sections of the population will see it.

I do think there's potentially a swine flu attitude that'll prevail.


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## stowie (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Anyone who isn't interested in having the vaccine clearly isn't that concerned about the virus, so why worry about groups of people who in any case don't want any nanny state restrictions on them going about their business as they see fit.
> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!



I - along with many millions of adults - have not yet been offered the vaccine. I assume that we will be simply collateral damage or something.

Before you go on about it only affecting the elderly.. I got COVID over Christmas. I got it mildly. It laid me up in bed for 2 weeks and another 2 weeks to recover to the point I didn't have to sleep at times during the day. My next door neighbour got it a little worse. He was in bed for over 3 weeks and couldn't work for another 3 weeks with about another month to start to feel fully recovered. Two work friends were hospitalised over Christmas with COVID - the same thing, pneumonia and clots in the lungs. One other colleague had been off his work since beginning of December and has just resigned because he cannot realistically see a time in the short term when he will be able to go back to work. All of us are in our 40's.


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## classic33 (14 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> In a months time, we'll be in a situation where it won't matter how many virus infections we get, it won't directly translate into hospitalisations. The winter flu season will also be over by then, so respiratory hospitalisations will fall off further because of that.


You mean like we were at the same time last year?


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## PK99 (15 Feb 2021)

Julia9054 said:


> Smoking is banned from pubs not smokers



Smoking is banned because it crates a hazard for staff and other people in the pub.

The parallel is that people who refuse to be vaccinated for no good reason also present a hazard to others.


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## MrGrumpy (15 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> As far as I'm concerned the whole lockdown thing should be scrapped immediately, no stay at home, back to work, back to school, socialising as normal, pubs open, all the other shops open. Just get it sorted!



So what do we do about a continuing overwhelmed NHS service ? That’s the trade off ? You want it sorted but don’t want to play your part as in your words the virus does not bother you ? It clearly does !?


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## Unkraut (17 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The winter flu season will also be over by then, so respiratory hospitalisations will fall off further because of that.


I recently saw the figure that, unlike the usual thousands of flu cases in the winter season, the number for Germany so far is 169. 

The beneficial affect of measures to contain corona has been a significant reduction in the load on hospitals as other causes of illness and accidents have reduced.

This only goes to show how much more dangerous corona can be with the threat of hospitals being overwhelmed despite the offset against other illnesses.


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## All uphill (17 Feb 2021)

I previously reported that our fit and healthy 27 year old son had covid in July 2020. The initial infection was mild - loss of taste/smell and fatigue; the after effects have been devastating, huge fatigue, brain fog, muscle pains. He has been unable to work, of course.

Now, seven months later, he is just about able to start doing some part time work.

Independent Sage estimates that there are 60 000 people in this kind of position.

I am not very sympathetic to people who won't take simple measures to reduce this impact!


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## fossyant (17 Feb 2021)

All uphill said:


> I previously reported that our fit and healthy 27 year old son had covid in July 2020. The initial infection was mild - loss of taste/smell and fatigue; the after effects have been devastating, huge fatigue, brain fog, muscle pains. He has been unable to work, of course.
> 
> Now, seven months later, he is just about able to start doing some part time work.
> 
> ...



Hope he's well on the way to recovery. I've read numerous accounts, including from another cycling forum - there is a thread with long covid.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Feb 2021)

All uphill said:


> Independent Sage estimates that there are 60 000 people in this kind of position.



Put that in context though; what have the total UK infections been so far? I mean the real, actual numbers, not the official ones which are massively under-reported because the majority of people with the virus will not have had a test.
Even if the real vs official infection rate was only a modest 4:1 over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases with lingering after-effects is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


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## classic33 (18 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Put that in context though; what have the total UK infections been so far? I mean the real, actual numbers, not the official ones which are massively under-reported because the majority of people with the virus will not have had a test.
> Even if the real vs official infection rate was only a modest 4:1 over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases with lingering after-effects is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


And yet you maintain that people like myself, with underlying health conditions, shouldn't be allowed out. Just so "your sort" who are healthy and with no chance of catching it can get on with your lives of "economic activity".

What about people like myself, don't we count?


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## IaninSheffield (18 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Put that in context though; what have the total UK infections been so far? I mean the real, actual numbers, not the official ones which are massively under-reported because the majority of people with the virus will not have had a test.
> Even if the real vs official infection rate was only a modest 4:1 over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases with lingering after-effects is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


Does this tally with the ONS data which, as a random testing protocol, should provide a more accurate picture, shouldn't it?


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## Ajax Bay (18 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


Skippy - let me comment on two points: numbers of people in UK that have or have been infected with C19 (graph below from ONS COVID-19 Infection Survey (pilot) data), and your 60k cases with lingering after-effects means 'one in every 250 infections'.
*Infections*





The blue lines show intervention change (lockdown on 23 Mar; relaxation on 11 May) and red line shows data cut date (07 Feb). The black line is the P value and the light blue shading shows the 95% credible interval.
https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/nowcasting-and-forecasting-12th-february-2021/
If even a portion of the younger people infected in the last few months retain sufficent anti-bodies, that will bring forward the date when herd immunity starts kicking in (hopefully).
60,000 cases is still 60,000 cases across the 'long COVID' spectrum on top of all 'normal' morbidity which will therefore generate additional therapeutic demand. Whether it will be useful to differentiate between 'everything else' and long-COVID is not clear. Since this is 'new' research may help but not sure the cause of a morbidity should be a factor in treatment resource priorities.


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## All uphill (18 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Put that in context though; what have the total UK infections been so far? I mean the real, actual numbers, not the official ones which are massively under-reported because the majority of people with the virus will not have had a test.
> Even if the real vs official infection rate was only a modest 4:1 over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases with lingering after-effects is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


It's only 60,000 people


SkipdiverJohn said:


> Put that in context though; what have the total UK infections been so far? I mean the real, actual numbers, not the official ones which are massively under-reported because the majority of people with the virus will not have had a test.
> Even if the real vs official infection rate was only a modest 4:1 over the course of the whole outbreak, then that would make 16 million actual cases. The stuff that gets reported on via government stats and in the media is only the tip of the iceberg, and will mainly be the worse cases involving severe infections. 60,000 cases with lingering after-effects is a substantial number if an accurate estimate, but it may only represent one in every 250 infections.


Not worth bothering about then.

I'll tell my son.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2021)

60,000 - it's a hell of a lot of folk incapacitated that were otherwise fit. Of course CV is nothing to worry about.  

Oh and don't mention the other 100k deaths - 100k too many.

The sooner we accept vaccinations, the sooner lockdown ends and the relief on mental health issues can start. Managers at my workplace are getting increasingly concerned for staff wellbeing, but there is bugger all anyone can do about it.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> And yet you maintain that people like myself, with underlying health conditions, shouldn't be allowed out. Just so "your sort" who are healthy and with no chance of catching it can get on with your lives of "economic activity".
> 
> What about people like myself, don't we count?



I'm one of the 'your sorts' but I'm sticking to the rules and getting the vaccine as soon as possible. Why, far too many people are getting very ill, get long term health issues, or even dead. I may have had the virus in December 19, don't know. I only go out for food, or to ride my bike, or a short walk with MrsF - all local, no driving for a 'walk'. Not seen any friends (other than cycling mates occasionally) for over a year.

Not bothered about catching it myself, but I want to protect anyone who has health conditions. Quite a few relatives are in the 'at risk' category - I'd rather not see my relatives in bits because say, my 60 y/o BIL has died from it, or my niece (BIL's daughter), who has bad asthma is dead.

Too many selfish people about TBH. It's the fit and healthy that will continue spreading the disease.


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## classic33 (18 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> I'm one of the 'your sorts' but I'm sticking to the rules and getting the vaccine as soon as possible. Why, far too many people are getting very ill, get long term health issues, or even dead. I may have had the virus in December 19, don't know. I only go out for food, or to ride my bike, or a short walk with MrsF - all local, no driving for a 'walk'. Not seen any friends (other than cycling mates occasionally) for over a year.
> 
> Not bothered about catching it myself, but I want to protect anyone who has health conditions. Quite a few relatives are in the 'at risk' category - I'd rather not see my relatives in bits because say, my 60 y/o BIL has died from it, or my niece (BIL's daughter), who has bad asthma is dead.
> 
> Too many selfish people about TBH. It's the fit and healthy that will continue spreading the disease.


That means you're not one of "your sort" though. As your concern is for others more than your own "economic activity"*.


*Down the pub.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> That means you're not one of "your sort" though. As your concern is for others more than your own "economic activity"*.
> 
> 
> *Down the pub.



I know but I'm in the same 'sort of' category as some, and I recon quite a bit younger ! 

* Down the Pub - oh how I wish.


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## Andy in Germany (18 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> And yet you maintain that people like myself, with underlying health conditions, shouldn't be allowed out. Just so "your sort" who are healthy and with no chance of catching it can get on with your lives of "economic activity".
> 
> What about people like myself, don't we count?



People with certain health conditions should have their freedom curtailed so "healthy people" aren't held back...

I seem to remember a similar idea gained popularity here a few decades ago: it ended badly.


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## Andy in Germany (18 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> the sooner lockdown ends and the relief on mental health issues can start.



Yeah, that. I fully understand and support lockdowns and other measures, but I'm beginning to wonder how much long term psychological trouble we will have to deal with.


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## classic33 (18 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Yeah, that. I fully understand and support lockdowns and other measures, but I'm beginning to wonder how much long term psychological trouble we're causing ourselves.


I think we'll see more problems with the type of person that likes to be seen and heard, than those who are happy in their own company. In some ways the latter have already adjusted to the situation.

The belief that in order to get on in life, you must be seen and heard, above everyone else, is in for a shakeup.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> I think we'll see more problems with the type of person that likes to be seen and heard, than those who are happy in their own company. In some ways the latter have already adjusted to the situation.
> 
> The belief that in order to get on in life, you must be seen and heard, above everyone else, is in for a shakeup.



True. Very true.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2021)

MrsF's friend texted in a panic yesterday - her teen daughter has tested positive. Further update, she's tested positive too - worried sick ! Hopefully she'll be OK. Teen daughter works in a nursery, but is still going out visiting friends and her boyfriend. So there are a load of folk who will now have to isolate.


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## winjim (18 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> MrsF's friend texted in a panic yesterday - her teen daughter has tested positive. Further update, she's tested positive too - worried sick ! Hopefully she'll be OK. Teen daughter works in a nursery, but *is still going out visiting friends and her boyfriend*. So there are a load of folk who will now have to isolate.


SMH


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## marinyork (18 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Yeah, that. I fully understand and support lockdowns and other measures, but I'm beginning to wonder how much long term psychological trouble we will have to deal with.



It's going to be a very difficult time for some considerable time.

The mental health side that might get a very slight easing of the pressure is care home visits will return (with I'm sure sadly a million and one different policies by care homes) and group 6 will mean that some with severe psychological conditions will get vaccinated meaning aspects of services become a bit easier to run. That doesn't do anything at all for many others where there situations causing a decline may not change for another 3-4 months.

The UK media are a bit funny on this, a recent academic study said depression and anxiety had trebled in the first 'lockdown' and another study saying a very large minority of the population weren't doing well and this was presented as good news, that we'd have expected it to be higher etc!

My favourite tv show in the UK this morning was still stumbling to get around the very basic nuances of swimming vs pubs and socialising and other things that are good for mental health, despite it being in a ring in show and having talked to real people for nearly a year about it! So I don't hold out much hope. Don't really hold out much hope for wider society especially as backbench MPs just go on about pubs constantly.


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## PK99 (18 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> MrsF's friend texted in a panic yesterday - her teen daughter has tested positive. Further update, she's tested positive too - worried sick ! Hopefully she'll be OK. Teen daughter works in a nursery, but is still going out visiting friends and her boyfriend. So there are a load of folk who will now have to isolate.



Utterly unacceptable behavior.


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## johnblack (18 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> I think we'll see more problems with the type of person that likes to be seen and heard, than those who are happy in their own company. In some ways the latter have already adjusted to the situation.
> 
> The belief that in order to get on in life, you must be seen and heard, above everyone else, is in for a shakeup.


Some people don't want to be on their own and it is not healthy for them. People that do not go out and enjoy the solitary existence haven't had to adjust that much, but wanting to go out, enjoy other peoples company and be social is not about desire to be seen and heard, or wanting to get on, it's an absolute built in part of human nature for most people. To be expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life is not something that anyone should want or expect and we need to strive to return to normal as soon as it is possible.


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## classic33 (18 Feb 2021)

johnblack said:


> Some people don't want to be on their own and it is not healthy for them. People that do not go out and enjoy the solitary existence haven't had to adjust that much, but wanting to go out, enjoy other peoples company and be social is not about desire to be seen and heard, or wanting to get on, it's an absolute built in part of human nature for most people. To be expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life is not something that anyone should want or expect and we need to strive to return to normal as soon as it is possible.


Like it or not, we're all going to have to adjust to a new "normal". My opinion on that is that those who are "happy in their own company" will find this change easier.

It's not about a solitary existence. Some people work better when on their own/left to their own devices to get the work done. Those that find the need to constantly remind others of what they have done, and seek recognition for having done the same work, will find adapting to the new way harder.


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## marinyork (18 Feb 2021)

johnblack said:


> Some people don't want to be on their own and it is not healthy for them. People that do not go out and enjoy the solitary existence haven't had to adjust that much, but wanting to go out, enjoy other peoples company and be social is not about desire to be seen and heard, or wanting to get on, it's an absolute built in part of human nature for most people. To be expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life is not something that anyone should want or expect and we need to strive to return to normal as soon as it is possible.



Most of us have the same needs with lots of variations, there are not many very well adapted or suited to long periods of isolation with uncertainty and constant policy changes on top as well as financial pressures, loss and other things.

Out there on the internet and circles there does seem to be a bit of a false debate between introverts and extroverts for the pandemic in my view. Introverts prefer more downtime and less stimulation, not none! So many people have said yes I'd like to keep a bit of contact with the office etc perhaps seeing people a bit once a week. I think some of the people that have face to face jobs find it hard understanding what is going on. I heard from someone I used to work with who works once a week and was really shocked to learn that I've only seen two people face to face in the last 11 months at uni. She was absolutely stunned and thought I was being a bit moany or exaggerating and she just goes in to work once a week and nothing ever changed apart from eventually wearing face masks. 

Some of my extrovert friends with day jobs to go to, decent family lives are getting fed up of lockdown 3 and not just because of the lack of contact even though the drawbridge is up at the chateaux, but activities and things they want to do that don't necessarily involve loads of people and socialising.


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## Andy in Germany (19 Feb 2021)

johnblack said:


> To be expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life is not something that anyone should want or expect



Let us hope the extroverts of this world remember this lesson, if and when we return to "normal"...


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## PK99 (19 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Let us hope the extroverts of this world remember this lesson, if and when we return to "normal"...



There is talk of a 'Post War' attitude as we emerge from the pandemic.

Starmer looks for a Post WW2 cohesion. Lend me your money, I'll spend it wisely.

But is that likely, or is Post WW1/Spanish Flu hedonism of the Roaring 20s more likely?

Post lockdown hedonism among the young is virtually certain.

But what about those who have had money to spend and have not been able to spend it. Will they choose to spend or lend?

I know many people in this group and there is a real pent-up desire to catch up on a lost year. Restaurant. Socialising. Holidays are the agenda.


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## johnblack (19 Feb 2021)

PK99 said:


> There is talk of a 'Post War' attitude as we emerge from the pandemic.
> 
> Starmer looks for a Post WW2 cohesion. Lend me your money, I'll spend it wisely.
> 
> ...


I'm going full bore as soon as I can, hopefully I'll be able to keep up with my kids!

The economy needs full on hedonism.


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## Andy in Germany (19 Feb 2021)

PK99 said:


> There is talk of a 'Post War' attitude as we emerge from the pandemic.
> 
> Starmer looks for a Post WW2 cohesion. Lend me your money, I'll spend it wisely.
> 
> ...



I was thinking more in terms of @johnblack's assertion that people shouldn't be "expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life" and expressing hope that extroverts will learn from the experience and stop expecting introverts to adjust and conform to an extrovert's standard of behaviour and lifestyle.


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## SpokeyDokey (19 Feb 2021)

Already hearing mumblings amongst the 'Older Golfing We're Vaccinated So ***k You' crowd that the Courses need opening asap. 

Tossers.


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## classic33 (19 Feb 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Already hearing mumblings amongst the 'Older Golfing We're Vaccinated So ***k You' crowd that the Courses need opening asap.
> 
> Tossers.


That last part is putting it mildly.

Having half of a course of treatment doesn't mean you'll never catch it. Or even vaccinated against it.


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> That last part is putting it mildly.
> 
> Having half of a course of treatment doesn't mean you'll never catch it. Or even vaccinated against it.



There are a number of folk ignoring it - I see lots of 'older' groups of walkers out...


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## johnblack (19 Feb 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I was thinking more in terms of @johnblack's assertion that people shouldn't be "expected to adjust and conform to an alien way of life" and expressing hope that extroverts will learn from the experience and stop expecting introverts to adjust and conform to an extrovert's standard of behaviour and lifestyle.


No I don't want introverts and the solitary to change anything, for many of those, lockdown will have had a far lower impact and so I expect they will carry on and I'm sure there are some that actually wish for lockdown of some sort to carry on indefinitely, I have seen some people thriving on this, actually loving extra rules and loss of freedom. Those that choose that way of life should be respected and should carry on. 

What I want is for the vast majority who do want social contact, pubs, gigs, cafes, restaurants, working in the office, going on holiday, going on their bikes with all their mates, to be able to do so as soon as possible, without disapproving comments and shakes of the head.


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## Ajax Bay (19 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> There are a number of folk ignoring it - I see lots of 'older' groups of walkers out...


I'm all for folk of all ages getting out and walking or riding. But it'd be sensible (and stay within the law) for them to walk or ride with just one other, or alone. Doing the same walk/ride/route in pairs is entirely doable. For a bit longer. After that the "disapproving comments and shakes of the head" will have no foundation and can be ignored.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/page-1133#post-6318272


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## PK99 (19 Feb 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Already hearing mumblings amongst the 'Older Golfing We're Vaccinated So ***k You' crowd that the Courses need opening asap.
> 
> Tossers.



In that context, this report that outdoor spreading is far less of an issue than thought is relevant to your point. I find the results surprising but they appear clear.

Important that decisions are driven by science, not prejudice,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...der-myth-can-inform-uks-future-covid-response


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## classic33 (19 Feb 2021)

johnblack said:


> No I don't want introverts and the solitary to change anything, for many of those, lockdown will have had a far lower impact and so I expect they will carry on and I'm sure there are some that actually wish for lockdown of some sort to carry on indefinitely, I have seen some people thriving on this, actually loving extra rules and loss of freedom. Those that choose that way of life should be respected and should carry on.
> 
> What I want is for the vast majority who do want social contact, pubs, gigs, cafes, restaurants, working in the office, going on holiday, going on their bikes with all their mates, to be able to do so as soon as possible, without disapproving comments and shakes of the head.


At present, in the UK, we're lucky. No actual limit on how far we can travel, no curfews. Even those who enjoy their own company are expected to abide by those, where they are in place.

Ireland had a 2km(now 5km) radius of your home address for all activities*, including exercise. 

Just because a person may enjoy being on their own, being the quiet one in a group, doesn't mean they welcome extra restrictions or are enjoying the current restrictions. My opinion was that they will be better able to cope than those who thrive on others telling them how well they're doing, when we get to the new normal. Forget what you were able to do this time last year, that's gone.

*Excluding work, shopping & medical.


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## johnblack (19 Feb 2021)

classic33 said:


> At present, in the UK, we're lucky. No actual limit on how far we can travel, no curfews. Even those who enjoy their own company are expected to abide by those, where they are in place.
> 
> Ireland had a 2km(now 5km) radius of your home address for all activities*, including exercise.
> 
> ...


And that's not what I said, but, there are some who have actually enjoyed this last year, like rules, regulations and restrictions. They also love pointing out other people who are not keeping to the standards they expect even if not breaching the rules.

I can't wait for that to be a thing of the past. I will absolutely not forget the freedoms that I previously had, why would anyone? Just accepting that we will not be able to do those things again? Not a chance.


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2021)

I was quite surprised to see golf courses closed. You can easily social distance playing with 'one other' if needed. Any 'golfers' that can offer an insight, or are you all naughty rule breakers that can't be trusted ! 

All my BIL has been able to do is walk round the course with his missus. He'd be in trouble if he took a 'hitty stick' with him.


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## Julia9054 (19 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> I was quite surprised to see golf courses closed. You can easily social distance playing with 'one other' if needed. Any 'golfers' that can offer an insight, or are you all naughty rule breakers that can't be trusted !
> 
> All my BIL has been able to do is walk round the course with his missus. He'd be in trouble if he took a 'hitty stick' with him.


Isn't the issue the other facilities though. Changing rooms etc (not really sure how golf works!)


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## vickster (19 Feb 2021)

Julia9054 said:


> Isn't the issue the other facilities though. Changing rooms etc (not really sure how golf works!)


No need for changing rooms...change shoes before getting back in car
Just the 19th hole may stay closed.
Personally I have no issues with socially distanced golf

I can’t wait for the gym and pool to reopen so I can rehab properly and get back on my bike ASAP.
I have no concerns about using shared changing rooms. Certainly at the times I go, there’s no difficulty social distancing, and everyone was good about sanitising in the gym and changing room.
The pool is already full of something akin to diluted bleach


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## PK99 (19 Feb 2021)

fossyant said:


> *I was quite surprised to see golf courses closed*. You can easily social distance playing with 'one other' if needed. Any 'golfers' that can offer an insight, or are you all naughty rule breakers that can't be trusted !
> 
> All my BIL has been able to do is walk round the course with his missus. He'd be in trouble if he took a 'hitty stick' with him.



I suspect it was partly political PR - Toffs in Trews allowed on the golf course...


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## Ajax Bay (19 Feb 2021)

Golf clubs endeavoured to make playing golf a minimal risk activity. The R&A 'Golf in the UK under COVID-19 restrictions'
were drawn up in April. [For the avoidance of doubt: no, I do not play.] Less risky than tennis imo.


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## SpokeyDokey (19 Feb 2021)

The people I know play in a 4 ball (which they can't officially do - but they play 2 x 2 balls but compete as a 4 ball if that makes sense) - they all meet at the same house and travel there and back in the same car together. They don't see this as a problem going forward.

Probably the game is relatively safe but some activity around it may not be.


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## vickster (19 Feb 2021)

That’s not down to the golf club however if they choose to ignore restrictions nothing to do with the activity. They’re just muppets


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## Ajax Bay (19 Feb 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> the game is relatively safe but some activity around it may not be.


This ^^^.


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## marinyork (20 Feb 2021)

Julia9054 said:


> Isn't the issue the other facilities though. Changing rooms etc (not really sure how golf works!)



Swimming pools around here stayed closed for ages and then reopened. When they reopened there was 'pool ready' and a series of bizarre one way systems in and out of the pool, changing rooms on the way out but encouraged just to do the reverse procedure.

The booking on systems and people gaming it booking up in advance and then pulling out meant that pools were a third emptier than they were supposed to be even under social distancing. It sounded fairly low risk to me.

Gyms on the other hand, I go past a number regularly and from what I saw outside and from what people said they didn't sound that safe to me and a fairly moderate risk of catching something if someone present has the virus. Many others felt otherwise.


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## Pale Rider (20 Feb 2021)

Word reaches me of another well off bloke who is ignoring the restrictions.

My brother has a mate who is considerably richer than most of us, he has a large detached house in a posh part of Birmingham, and an almost equally large holiday home in Bude in Cornwall.

Not to mention more large cars - with personalised plates - that my brother has managed to count.

This guy has been tootling up and down to Bude as if nothing has happened, and also paying regular visits to his daughter and her family in Lincoln.

He's well known in Bude, and brother did wonder if any of the locals down there might dob him in.

However, he is also generous, spending lots of money locally on staff and gardeners, and in shops and restaurants.

Brother is 'very disappointed' with his friend's conduct, but is reluctant to pull him up on it because it would almost inevitably be the end of long friendship.

I suppose this sorry tale does illustrate most Covid rule breakers are probably decent citizens in other respects.


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## Andy in Germany (20 Feb 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Word reaches me of...
> ...a posh part of Birmingham,



I am sceptical.


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## classic33 (26 Feb 2021)

A year ago, 366 days, since the first notification that routine appointments were being stopped.

Still no word on when, or if, they'll resume.


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## Joey Shabadoo (26 Feb 2021)

I'm on furlough for an English based company. Got an email out of the blue saying us salesmen are back on the road on Monday. 
Not sure about that. My wife is shielding as CEV and Scotland is still in lockdown until the end of March.



My shitebag manager sent the email out at 10 to 5 then switched his phone off. p***k.


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## marinyork (26 Feb 2021)

My parents got a letter today saying the church was reopening on 8th March, but to my surprise they don't want to go back till 29th when the shielding letter runs out and rang up and told them that.

Ah well.


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## marinyork (28 Feb 2021)

I've come across another person who had their jab in January and hasn't left the house and no plans to leave the house the next 2 or 3 months.

I know there are loads of groups of 6 or 10 roaming parks now and it's good to be cautious but the vaccination program was never meant to leave us in this situation.


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## Ajax Bay (28 Feb 2021)

I know it's against the rulz, but park roaming gangs of vaccinated asymptomatic old biddies (or chaps or theyever) in the open air, 2m apart, are most unlikely to be a super-spreading cluster. Trouble is all the youf (and indeed the unvaccinated generally) not unreasonably see this as a bad example and an element are likely to use that to justify their own 'need' to flex the rules beyond the yield point. Finessing this dichotomy of necessary behaviour versus lockdown fatigue, and the dilemma of the vaccinated/unvaccinated divide will not be straightforward. In the same way as the answer to 'what is local?' when riding for exercise is 'use common sense' there needs to be a modicum of that. Trouble is what's sauce for the old goose is sauce for the unvaccinated young gander.
Having had a jab earlier this month, I shall not be roaming the park in a gang. I shall be riding in today's sunshine, though sucking my son's wheel, this afternoon.
Edit afternote: wheel ahead fine, till he started getting a 'bit tired' after a couple of hours, poor (strong nearly 18) flower.


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## vickster (28 Feb 2021)

The local rec was full of yoofs yesterday playing basketball, football, using the skate park and what not in the sunshine. Has been the same throughout lockdown when the weather was decent. Their parents are probably glad to have them out the house!


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## marinyork (28 Feb 2021)

There's little transmission outside, but this is something that's changed suddenly. 2 metres apart, not so much, in very crowded parks. It's the odd family or group of people that will then continue and pop inside buildings and then they'll be some transmission. Everything was groups of 1, 2 or 3 until some days ago and it's jumped to larger numbers like it did in May/June last year. For those not going outside they are probably less aware of this fortunately. 

Yesterday it wasn't so much vaccinated people in the parks. 

The local is simple enough, no outside the city boundaries for me, but that one will change soon enough on 29th March.


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## lane (28 Feb 2021)

The main groups I see are young people outside in smallish groups of up to 4 and to be honest I do understand that. Plus in a week they will be crammed into classrooms 30+ so can't really expect them not to mix outside.


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## vickster (28 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> The main groups I see are you people outside in smallish groups of up to 4 and to be honest I do understand that. Plus in a week they will be crammed into classrooms 30+ so can't really expect them not to mix outside.


There were probably 20-30 around the skate bit yesterday, albeit in little clusters


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## marinyork (28 Feb 2021)

vickster said:


> There were probably 20-30 around the skate bit yesterday, albeit in little clusters



Yesterday, 1500 to 2000 in a local park.


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## vickster (28 Feb 2021)

marinyork said:


> Yesterday, 1500 to 2000 in a local park.


There were other people too, not that many but it’s not that big.
I hobbled through swiftly


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## lane (28 Feb 2021)

marinyork said:


> Yesterday, 1500 to 2000 in a local park.



I probably instinctively stay away from places that are too crowded so don't see these examples. Still risk outside is low compared with return to school shortly which is when we will start to see cases increasing.


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## marinyork (28 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> I probably instinctively stay away from places that are too crowded so don't see these examples. Still risk outside is low compared with return to school shortly which is when we will start to see cases increasing.



Sudden change this week.

The primary schools should already have been sent back and stagger the others.

I do like the 2 lateral flow tests to family members just announced. Quite a few people I might interact with in the next six months have children of school age. Going from 0 or the odd test for most people there to regular testing which is a gigantic difference.

There is a risk from schools, but it is important.


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## lane (28 Feb 2021)

Schools have a significant impact on cases but it is also important for young people who have missed virtually two of the past three terms.


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## lane (28 Feb 2021)

I have got to take my daughter into school for a covid test tomorrow, so she can start back on the 8th. Anticipating a negative test; she has hardly been out of her bedroom for two months!


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## lazybloke (1 Mar 2021)

lane said:


> I have got to take my daughter into school for a covid test tomorrow, so she can start back on the 8th. Anticipating a negative test; she has hardly been out of her bedroom for two months!


That sounds like excellent organisation.

The local school here won't _start _testing until Monday 8th, so one of my children can't go in until Wednesday, and the other one on Thursday. 
Oh, but they're abandoning online lessons after Fri 5th. Not very impressive.


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## C R (1 Mar 2021)

lazybloke said:


> That sounds like excellent organisation.
> 
> The local school here won't _start _testing until Monday 8th, so one of my children can't go in until Wednesday, and the other one on Thursday.
> Oh, but they're abandoning online lessons after Fri 5th. Not very impressive.


Our two daughters are in Y7 and Y9, Y7 have their induction test in the 10th, back on the 11 if negative. Y9 have their induction on the 15th and back on the 16th if negative. 

I have holiday left which I need to take, so we are ok to ferry them, but the disruption to many parents is going to be significant.


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## DCLane (1 Mar 2021)

Son no. 2's got an in-school test on the 11th and can stay if it's negative. He'll ride to school so transport isn't an issue.

Son no. 1's got an in-university test w/c 8th March but his face-to-face classes don't start for a couple of weeks afterwards as he'll be in an exam period.


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## vickster (1 Mar 2021)

C R said:


> Our two daughters are in Y7 and Y9, Y7 have their induction test in the 10th, back on the 11 if negative. Y9 have their induction on the 15th and back on the 16th if negative.
> 
> I have holiday left which I need to take, so we are ok to ferry them, but the disruption to many parents is going to be significant.


Surely less disruptive than having to home school and work full time as plenty of my friends and colleagues are trying to do!


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## lane (1 Mar 2021)

lazybloke said:


> That sounds like excellent organisation.
> 
> The local school here won't _start _testing until Monday 8th, so one of my children can't go in until Wednesday, and the other one on Thursday.
> Oh, but they're abandoning online lessons after Fri 5th. Not very impressive.



Yes it is, don't know of any other schools where they are all back on the 8th. View is they have lost enough school time already which I can't argue with.


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## C R (1 Mar 2021)

vickster said:


> Surely less disruptive than having to home school and work full time as plenty of my friends and colleagues are trying to do!


Not really. For people like us who work from home and have flexible employers it is easy to work around this sort of thing, but in the grand scheme of things we are a fortunate few. For many people this way of doing things will disrupt planning that they had in place and which they can not easily change. If nothing else, the impression that was given was that schools were back on the 8th, but in reality they are not.


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## fossyant (1 Mar 2021)

Most of my colleagues are desperate for the kids to back as they can't work efficiently - one looking after kids/home schooling, then swapping round. They can't do a full day's work. Fortunately, my employer is flexible. Certainly those with younger kids are struggling.


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## johnblack (1 Mar 2021)

fossyant said:


> Most of my colleagues are desperate for the kids to back as they can't work efficiently - one looking after kids/home schooling, then swapping round. They can't do a full day's work. Fortunately, my employer is flexible. Certainly those with younger kids are struggling.


I just want mine to go back because it's better for them than being stuck at home, they need to see their friends and have some actual interaction.


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## Ajax Bay (1 Mar 2021)

Here is an edited version of our (secondary) school plan (mainly for those without the pleasure of offspring at home):

. . plans for all year groups to be back in school by Thursday.
*staggered return*, starting from Monday, will enable all students to be tested before they return to face-to-face lessons. All students will have three COVID-19 lateral flow tests upon their return to school; during the first two weeks back there will be two tests in addition to the initial test , and these will all take place during the normal school day. Students will then need to test themselves at home twice a week.
Along with the other protective measures we are taking, these tests will help staff and students to remain in school safely. Up to one third of people who have COVID-19 experience no symptoms. By testing, we will help to stop the virus spread and help to keep our school open as safely as possible. Although testing is voluntary, we would encourage everyone to participate to help break transmission links and protect every member of our school community.
*Consent *Lateral Flow Testing is not mandatory but optional and we have already asked for consent to conduct a test if your child is under 16 years old (over 16 can provide their own consent) in previous communications. The test may not be mandatory, but it will better protect the school community and your family and wider community. This is the time when our core values of serving others can be put into practice.
*Testing schedule *Students will be tested in their tutor groups: Years 12 and 13 on Monday, etc (see schedule). Students will have to be dropped at school . . . and will await their test results before moving to lessons (if the test is negative). [Best] if students create an account with the NHS https://access.login.nhs.uk/enter-email .
In school, the key change (from December) will be that students will *need to wear a face covering at all times *whilst inside (under a roof). We recommend that they bring spare coverings to school and change them at least once per day. Rules on who is exempt from wearing a face covering have changed and the list is:

people who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability
where putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress


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## lane (1 Mar 2021)

Daughter just back from testing. She said that out of her form of 30 plus she only saw about 10. Bit worrying if parents aren't bothering - but neither the tests nor masks are compulsory.


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## C R (1 Mar 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Here is an edited version of our (secondary) school plan (mainly for those without the pleasure of offspring at home):
> 
> . . plans for all year groups to be back in school by Thursday.
> *staggered return*, starting from Monday, will enable all students to be tested before they return to face-to-face lessons. All students will have three COVID-19 lateral flow tests upon their return to school; during the first two weeks back there will be two tests in addition to the initial test , and these will all take place during the normal school day. Students will then need to test themselves at home twice a week.
> ...


That's somewhat better than ours. We have to go at a given time during the day, wait for their induction to finish and take them back home. No school transport or provision for the children to wait at school.


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## AndreaJ (5 Mar 2021)

Daughter has had her test this morning ready to go back to Sixth Form on Monday. All Year 13 tested negative. They’re all happy to be going back and get on with their A Levels.


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## Julia9054 (5 Mar 2021)

C R said:


> If nothing else, the impression that was given was that schools were back on the 8th, but in reality they are not.


Try to think of the logistics of testing up to 2000 people. The government initially said all back on the 8th without thinking about how schools were going to manage to do that (no surprise there, when do this government ever actually consult). Only recently were schools told that they were allowed to begin the testing on the Friday before (today). We had already sent our schedule out to parents, decided to change it and re send the altered one. I can understand some schools reasoning that parents would find changing it more disruptive and sticking with the original start Monday schedule. Like most schools, we are having children in at a certain time in form groups, sending them away and then that year group starting the following day (dependent on testing negative). Whilst this is disruptive for parents who don’t live close enough for their children to walk/cycle by themselves, I can’t think of another way to do it. One smallish secondary school I know of have decided to start a year group on a particular day, hold them in the hall, test them and release them to lessons in batches. Less disruptive for parents but the consequences of someone testing positive is that everyone sitting within a certain distance of them in the hall will have to self isolate for two weeks.
I completely take my hat off to the teams in schools that have had to get this up and running. (In my school, the business manager, catering staff, technicians, site staff and admin staff). In a large school, it is a logistical nightmare.


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## DCLane (5 Mar 2021)

Son no. 2's in for testing next week - they've scheduled the years across the week, with pupils arriving outside in batches of 30. They'll then be taken individually for a test, have to wait for 15 minutes and - if negative - can go to class. That seems sensible.

What seems less sensible is if they're had a positive test in the past 90 days they can just go to lessons. So, the stupid ones will arrive having tested positive the day before and go into class still contagious


----------



## lane (5 Mar 2021)

Julia9054 said:


> Try to think of the logistics of testing up to 2000 people. The government initially said all back on the 8th without thinking about how schools were going to manage to do that (no surprise there, when do this government ever actually consult). Only recently were schools told that they were allowed to begin the testing on the Friday before (today). We had already sent our schedule out to parents, decided to change it and re send the altered one. I can understand some schools reasoning that parents would find changing it more disruptive and sticking with the original start Monday schedule. Like most schools, we are having children in at a certain time in form groups, sending them away and then that year group starting the following day (dependent on testing negative). Whilst this is disruptive for parents who don’t live close enough for their children to walk/cycle by themselves, I can’t think of another way to do it. One smallish secondary school I know of have decided to start a year group on a particular day, hold them in the hall, test them and release them to lessons in batches. Less disruptive for parents but the consequences of someone testing positive is that everyone sitting within a certain distance of them in the hall will have to self isolate for two weeks.
> I completely take my hat off to the teams in schools that have had to get this up and running. (In my school, the business manager, catering staff, technicians, site staff and admin staff). In a large school, it is a logistical nightmare.



My daughter's school tested everyone this week and all 1,300 at the school will be at their desks on Monday morning. So it can be done.


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## alicat (5 Mar 2021)

The doctor thinks that I may have 'Covid toes'. I hadn't heard of it but my left foot did look similar to the pics of red and swollen feet a few months ago. It's most likely to be 'just' Reynauds, which I probably already have but it does sound more exotic to have long Covid.


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## rockyroller (5 Mar 2021)

alicat said:


> The doctor thinks that I may have 'Covid toes'. I hadn't heard of it but my left foot did look similar to the pics of red and swollen feet a few months ago. It's most likely to be 'just' Reynauds, which I probably already have but it does sound more exotic to have long Covid.


I had 1 covid toe for a cpl days. it was blackish & didn't bend as well as it's neighbors. I showed it to anyone who would look & I took a photo (on my home computer) I took baby aspirin for a cpl days. it cleared up, but I have no idea how or why. it still doesn't bend as well as it's neighbors. maybe it never did. never really noticed until it turned blackish. good luck!


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## alicat (5 Mar 2021)

rockyroller said:


> I had 1 covid toe for a cpl days. it was blackish & didn't bend as well as it's neighbors. I showed it to anyone who would look & I took a photo (on my home computer) I took baby aspirin for a cpl days. it cleared up, but I have no idea how or why. it still doesn't bend as well as it's neighbors. maybe it never did. never really noticed until it turned blackish. good luck!


Eek! That sounds more scary than mine. I'm glad that it's mostly cleared up @rockyroller


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## Joey Shabadoo (14 Mar 2021)

Just heard this morning that my brother-in-law's got it. Mid 40s overweight taxi driver.


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## Yellow Fang (15 Mar 2021)

I have come back from donating plasma, so they can use my antibodies to save others. I don't want a medal. Doing good is its own reward. They told me not to drink alcohol for 12 hours, but I am going to ignore that.


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## Andy in Germany (15 Mar 2021)

I got my "Corona Vaccination Priority Certificate" today.

Apparently, because I'm not working in a medical or care institution, I'm group "§ 3 CoronaImpfV" not _"Highest" _Priority for an vaccination (that's the "§ 2 CoronaImpfV" apparently, but I am "High" priority because my workplace comes under the snappily named category of "§ 3 Abs. 1 Nr. 4 1. Alt CoronaImpfV".

Because this is Germany it took them two sheets of tightly spaced A4 Paper to say that, bless them.

Now I can try and make an appointment with the vaccination centre for our county. Apparently this is in an Aldi two villages north of here; should I worry?


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## Joey Shabadoo (15 Mar 2021)

Well I checked and got this -

Based on your profile, you are in priority Group 9, and there are between 818,287 and 963,321 people in front of you in the queue for a first dose of COVID vaccine across Scotland.
📅 Given a vaccination rate of 168,176 a week and an uptake of 74%, you should expect to receive your first dose of vaccine between 21/05/2021 and 02/06/2021.

You should then get your second dose by between 13/08/2021 and 25/08/2021.


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## Joey Shabadoo (16 Mar 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Well I checked and got this -
> 
> Based on your profile, you are in priority Group 9, and there are between 818,287 and 963,321 people in front of you in the queue for a first dose of COVID vaccine across Scotland.
> 📅 Given a vaccination rate of 168,176 a week and an uptake of 74%, you should expect to receive your first dose of vaccine between 21/05/2021 and 02/06/2021.
> ...


Which turns out to be completely wrong! 

Just got my appointment for the 21st, 5 days away!!


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## Unkraut (16 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Because this is Germany it took them two sheets of tightly spaced A4 Paper to say that, bless them.




We had to check to see if my daughter and son-in-law could visit at the weekend. 4 links later, and several pages of officialise German you need a doctorate to understand we eventually found they can't. One too many people.


Andy in Germany said:


> Apparently this is in an Aldi two villages north of here; should I worry?


Check the sell-by date of the vaccine ...


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## Ajax Bay (17 Mar 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Based on your profile, you are in priority Group 9, and there are between 818,287 and 963,321 people in front of you in the queue for a first dose of COVID vaccine across Scotland. 📅 Given a vaccination rate of 168,176 a week and an uptake of 74%, you should expect to receive your first dose of vaccine between 21/05/2021 and 02/06/2021.


I read that and thought' 'complete and utter rubbish'. Pleased to see your subsequent post 👍.
With a UK rate of 4M a week (pop=67M) the Scottish (pop=5.5M) share of the increased supply is 8% = 320k per week.
In Scotland there are 393k 55-59s and 401k 50-54s (some will already have been jabbed as they're in JCVI Gps 2, 4 or 6). The uptake is well over 90% (why is the site using such out of date data?).
PS The privileged David Davies speaks more truth than the site you found.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2021)

While in Stuttgart on the Weekend, noticed Beautiful Daughter had a runny nose. Now Beautiful Wife has sent as WhatsApp saying Beautiful Daughter has a slight temperature.

Told work, and they say I have to self isolate and take a free "quick test" administered by the local chemist.

First test is tomorrow morning so I get the day off...


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2021)

A slight temperature and a runny nose do not seem to meet the symptom criteria which the UK's NHS offer. Just saying. Is there a similar list in Germany?
Must be frustrating to miss work on such an exaggerated over precaution.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/15-most-common-covid-symptoms-110122620.html


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## C R (22 Mar 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> A slight temperature and a runny nose do not seem to meet the symptom criteria which the UK's NHS offer. Just saying. Is there a similar list in Germany?
> Must be frustrating to miss work on such an exaggerated over precaution.
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/15-most-common-covid-symptoms-110122620.html


Our daughter had an orthodontist appointment moved because of those symptoms a couple of months ago. At least some settings in the UK seem to be as (over) cautious.


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## PK99 (22 Mar 2021)

C R said:


> Our daughter had an *orthodontist appointment *moved because of those symptoms a couple of months ago. At least some settings in the UK seem to be as (over) cautious.



For (very literally) face-to-face interactions like dentist etc, I would not call that over-cautious.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> A slight temperature and a runny nose do not seem to meet the symptom criteria which the UK's NHS offer. Just saying. Is there a similar list in Germany?
> Must be frustrating to miss work on such an exaggerated over precaution.
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/15-most-common-covid-symptoms-110122620.html



I work with vulnerable adults in a workshop so they are being very careful to avoid an outbreak: if they have to close for two weeks a couple of the clients would collapse psychologically.

The fact the workshop would also lose money on the contracts it is fulfilling would, I'm sure, not come into the managements consideration.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2021)

PK99 said:


> For (very literally) face-to-face interactions like dentist etc, I would not call that over-cautious.


Agree but this is a parent 'isolating' because child has runny nose and a slight temperature. I called that an 'over precaution'.
But Andy has explained his special work circumstance so I entirely recognise the approach his place of work takes.


----------



## C R (22 Mar 2021)

PK99 said:


> For (very literally) face-to-face interactions like dentist etc, I would not call that over-cautious.


Neither would I, just pointing out that different circumstances mean different criteria.


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Mar 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Just heard this morning that my brother-in-law's got it. Mid 40s overweight taxi driver.


@Joey Shabadoo , how's your B-in-L doing? Hope he's OK.
Just heard from my cousin that her mum's carer has died after 5 days in ICU - he was 36 and fit as a fiddle.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> @Joey Shabadoo , how's your B-in-L doing? Hope he's OK.
> Just heard from my cousin that her mum's carer has died after 5 days in ICU - he was 36 and fit as a fiddle.


"rough as fark" is the latest medical analysis. Started with pains in the legs which moved to the chest. Think he's laid up trying to sweat it out.


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## Archie_tect (22 Mar 2021)

Can't wait for our children [33 and 30] to have theirs + hopefully the rate of uptake of the vaccine will improve with people who have refused it up to now.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2021)

Had the vaccine last night - Astra Veneca - no bother at all, hardly felt it. Arm ached a bit later and a bit of a headache but nothing to notice really.

Now my head is pounding, I feel like I'm burning up (but no temperature) and every joint is aching terribly. Apparently these are expected side effects though.


----------



## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> While in Stuttgart on the Weekend, noticed Beautiful Daughter had a runny nose. Now Beautiful Wife has sent as WhatsApp saying Beautiful Daughter has a slight temperature.
> 
> Told work, and they say I have to self isolate and take a free "quick test" administered by the local chemist.
> 
> First test is tomorrow morning so I get the day off...



Beautiful Daughter apparently has no fever any more and just a runny nose: it's probably a cold as there's one going around, along with a tummy bug. I'll still have to do the test tomorrow though.

I've had a call from work asking about her test and/or results, which is unusually cautious of them.


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## LarryDuff (22 Mar 2021)

I was Pfizzered at lunchtime.
No side effects yet.


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## Joey Shabadoo (22 Mar 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Had the vaccine last night - Astra Veneca - no bother at all, hardly felt it. Arm ached a bit later and a bit of a headache but nothing to notice really.
> 
> Now my head is pounding, I feel like I'm burning up (but no temperature) and every joint is aching terribly. Apparently these are expected side effects though.


Better now - it doesn't last


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## Andy in Germany (23 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Beautiful Daughter apparently has no fever any more and just a runny nose: it's probably a cold as there's one going around, along with a tummy bug. I'll still have to do the test tomorrow though.
> 
> I've had a call from work asking about her test and/or results, which is unusually cautious of them.



The story continues...

I now have the symptoms of an early cold, so the Corona test centre can't test me, and I was told to go to the doctor. He was less then pleased as he's not really set up for this, so I've been told to go back in about an hour...

I'll probably ask to be signed off for a few days anyway because it will be simpler for work and for me: If I go to work snuffling then clients are gauranteed to catch it no matter how careful I am, and then they will need testing... and on it will go...


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## Andy in Germany (23 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> The story continues...
> 
> I now have the symptoms of an early cold, so the Corona test centre can't test me, and I was told to go to the doctor. He was less then pleased as he's not really set up for this, so I've been told to go back in about an hour...
> 
> I'll probably ask to be signed off for a few days anyway because it will be simpler for work and for me: If I go to work snuffling then clients are gauranteed to catch it no matter how careful I am, and then they will need testing... and on it will go...



Test complete (ouch)

Result comes in tomorrow, but I'm signed off from Yesterday to the end of the week: it's just simpler for everyone that way.


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## Andy in Germany (25 Mar 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Test complete (ouch)
> 
> Result comes in tomorrow, but I'm signed off from Yesterday to the end of the week: it's just simpler for everyone that way.



To my complete lack of surprise the test was negative.


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## Mike_P (28 Mar 2021)

LarryDuff said:


> I was Pfizzered at lunchtime.
> No side effects yet.


Apparently it's the second dose of the Pfizer one that is more likely to cause side effects. Envious of the residents of Saint-Quentin-en-Yveslines, south west of Paris who are getting their vaccination in the centre of the national velodrome typically whilst cyclists are training.


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## Andy in Germany (31 Mar 2021)

My word but everything is kicking off on the vaccination front.

We're getting a visit from the mobile vaccination service next week: we are a priority because our clients are people with disabilities, and therefore at a higher risk. The health department will set up a vaccination centre in the workshop and all the clients from different workshops and protected housing will come to get their vaccinations on the same day. 

The only problem from my point of view is that the second vaccination is scheduled for after my contract has ended; if I'm no longer working with people with disabilities I'm not such high priority and in fact I was told by someone from the HR department that I was "no longer eligible" and couldn't be vaccinated on Friday.

One phone call later it was clear the health department disagreed most strongly; I was told I could jolly well be vaccinated and it was no business of my employer. 

Then today we were told that all the pre vaccination paperwork "had to be" filled in online with each client, so we made a start on that, pulling people into the office, filling in the forms, printing them off and then giving the choice of taking the forms home or leaving them in a ring file the safe. This takes longer than you may expect with some people because they get confused or frightened so we have to explain why we are doing this and what choices they have et c.

We also have to reorganise the workshop so that there's a treatment room and observation room so anyone who has been vaccinated can be checked for side effects.

We also have some who will try and get attention and one in particular was predicting that she'd pass out and need an ambulance. She's never had a problem before but she was letting everyone know that it could happen. She loudly demanded to know what would happen if she 'passed out'.

The response from her team leader was "Make sure you do it in a corner so no-one trips over you by mistake".

She has a sense of humour and got the message...


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## Andy in Germany (5 Apr 2021)

I thought this may cheer people up. 

The Miniature Wonderland is a very large permanent model railway exhibition in Hamburg, and they are obviously affected by the lockdown, however they're responding well by using the time for maintenance and also completing some really surprising challenges. This is the latest: the longest piece of music played by a train.



It's also worth watching until the end to see the "Making of" sequences.


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## IaninSheffield (5 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I thought this may cheer people up.
> 
> The Miniature Wonderland is a very large permanent model railway exhibition in Hamburg, and they are obviously affected by the lockdown, however they're responding well by using the time for maintenance and also completing some really surprising challenges. This is the latest: the longest piece of music played by a train.
> 
> ...



Brilliant!


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## Ajax Bay (5 Apr 2021)

So much better than the 'show' I saw in Hamburg late one night many years ago. Thank you very much for sharing.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Apr 2021)

In other news, I had the first vaccination today.

There had been a bit of a question as to whether I could have the second dose here because my contract ends a week before they come back. My colleague in the social services department who technically outranks all of my regular team was disgusted by this, and resolved the problem neatly by saying loudly in this morning's team meeting "Andy in Germany, you are aware that you can come back for your second vaccination, aren't you?"

We had some chaos: some clients didn't have a medicines list with them and we had to run about getting hold of them; some tried to get attention by telling everyone about the potential side effects, and of course the organisation (which had carefully made sure the day was before a weekend to avoid people having time off) demanded that everyone clock out before their vaccination, and clock in afterwards even though they were in the building for the entire 20 minutes this took. We "forgot" that instruction so unfortunately, we will have to send the personal department a manual correction sheet for all 50 odd clients and staff, and see if they bother to book them in one by one...

The docs and their team were fantastic and very patient with the clients and organisation, although they said that all other organisations like this had organised the first vaccinations ages ago and were now on the second course.

The Vaccine was the BioNtech/Comirnaty version, so far just a slightly stiff shoulder...


----------



## PK99 (14 Apr 2021)

D2 is in Vancouver.

Partner has just had a positive test result.

D2 is feeling grotty.

EDIT
Now tested positive too.

Role reversal from a year ago when MrsPK & I were both down with the bug.


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## Rickshaw Phil (19 Apr 2021)

Had my first dose of vaccine on Saturday. I'm the last adult in my immediate circle of family and friends to get it. Took ages to actually get seen - I think everybody eligible in the area had tried to book the same early time slot.

Effects weren't too bad and didn't stop me from mowing lawns and helping to refelt a shed on Sunday.


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## lazybloke (24 Apr 2021)

The relief at getting a haircut this morning, 4 months late.


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2021)

lazybloke said:


> The relief at getting a haircut this morning, 4 months late.


Had mine chopped third day of opening up by the local east european folk. A massive relief, even if I have felt somewhat cold on top since. Am still aclimatising.


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2021)

anyone taken advantage of the free asymptomatic self-test things?
Keep meaning to pop down to the local Boots which I think has them.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Apr 2021)

lazybloke said:


> The relief at getting a haircut this morning, 4 months late.





Blue Hills said:


> Had mine chopped third day of opening up by the local east european folk. A massive relief, even if I have felt somewhat cold on top since. Am still aclimatising.



What's the matter with you lot? I must have had at least 20 haircuts over the past year.
The lockdown has made no difference, just as it hasn't made much difference to most other things I do, having a beer inside my local 'spoons excepted.


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## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> anyone taken advantage of the free asymptomatic self-test things?
> Keep meaning to pop down to the local Boots which I think has them.



Nope, what's the point, got my first jab, feel fit as a fiddle and not going near anyone. MrsF has to take two a week if she want's to see her mum in person (car home), and daughter one a week in college.


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## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> What's the matter with you lot? I must have had at least 20 haircuts over the past year.
> The lockdown has made no difference, just as it hasn't made much difference to most other things I do, having a beer inside my local 'spoons excepted.



Unless you cut your own (like I do) then you couldn't get a cut legally at a barbers/hair dresser recently. The shaver on 12/18mm does me fine.


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> What's the matter with you lot? I must have had at least 20 haircuts over the past year.
> The lockdown has made no difference, just as it hasn't made much difference to most other things I do, having a beer inside my local 'spoons excepted.


who's been cutting it?
(hasn't been an issue for a year of course - just last few months)


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## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> What's the matter with you lot? I must have had at least 20 haircuts over the past year.
> The lockdown has made no difference, just as it hasn't made much difference to most other things I do, having a beer inside my local 'spoons excepted.



Dude, how fast does you hair grow?


----------



## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> Nope, what's the point, got my first jab, feel fit as a fiddle and not going near anyone. MrsF has to take two a week if she want's to see her mum in person (car home), and daughter one a week in college.


i need to in preparation for seeing my mum sometime soon - not in a care home. If anyone has a good link on the recommended way to test/how to use the results/how often to repeat etc I would be interested.


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> i need to in preparation for seeing my mum sometime soon - not in a care home. If anyone has a good link on the recommended way to test/how to use the results/how often to repeat etc I would be interested.



Can you just not get them from the pharmacy/docs. My BIL was just picking up a prescription, and got a test kit shoved in his face - he's been going no-where !


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## Blue Hills (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> Can you just not get them from the pharmacy/docs. My BIL was just picking up a prescription, and got a test kit shoved in his face - he's been going no-where !


yes - see above - can wander down the road to get some from my local boots - will google/search NHS site for advice.


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## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> yes - see above - can wander down the road to get some from my local boots - will google/search NHS site for advice.



You get a mahoosive box and instructions in it. Just seen the one MrsF has.


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## C R (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> i need to in preparation for seeing my mum sometime soon - not in a care home. If anyone has a good link on the recommended way to test/how to use the results/how often to repeat etc I would be interested.


My wife and I have been self testing at the same time as the children. Picked the tests up from the local test centre.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> Unless you cut your own (like I do) then you couldn't get a cut legally at a barbers/hair dresser recently. The shaver on 12/18mm does me fine.



I thought most blokes cut their own, or get their OH to cut it for them. Most blokes that I know do. It's quicker to cut it at home than the time it takes to travel to the barbers!
Currently on my spring #2 intermediate cut. When it gets warmer it's #1 time for a few months, then back to #2 for the autumn. #3 is strictly for the depths of winter.  This hair care stuff for blokes is really easy, I don't know why it's such a big drama for some.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

In the midst of the sudden availability of kits just about everywhere my soon to be former employer once again showed their inability to keep up with events, or even be vaguely human.

They now have to make tests available to all staff and clients: they have interpreted this as telling everyone who wants a test they will be available in one location, next Wednesday, between 6 and eight in the evening; book in advance...


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I thought most blokes cut their own, or get their OH to cut it for them.



I do my own as I can't be bothered waiting. My son's booked in for next Tuesday and looks like a mushroom he's got that much hair -won't let us touch it.

Dunno, those of us that are 'active' just cut it off short.


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I thought most blokes cut their own, or get their OH to cut it for them. Most blokes that I know do. It's quicker to cut it at home than the time it takes to travel to the barbers!
> Currently on my spring #2 intermediate cut. When it gets warmer it's #1 time for a few months, then back to #2 for the autumn. #3 is strictly for the depths of winter.  This hair care stuff for blokes is really easy, I don't know why it's such a big drama for some.



It's a big thing all this male grooming lark - totally lost on me too !


----------



## classic33 (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> i need to in preparation for seeing my mum sometime soon - not in a care home. If anyone has a good link on the recommended way to test/how to use the results/how often to repeat etc I would be interested.


Lloyd's Pharmacy in Sainsburys have them. I start using them tomorrow. Been told twice a week, but there's seven tests in the box, making me think its one a day.

Full instructions inside the box, which I've not opened yet.


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## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

Someone is making a mint out of the boxes... huge !


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## classic33 (24 Apr 2021)

lazybloke said:


> The relief at getting a haircut this morning, 4 months late.


First haircut in 390 days, when they reopened, the other week.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

classic33 said:


> First haircut in 390 days, when they reopened, the other week.



To be fair it isn't as obvious with your hair because you can hide it under the cowl.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Apr 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Who's been cutting it?



Me. Takes me ten minutes. Job done. Haven't been to the barbers for years and years.



Andy in Germany said:


> Dude, how fast does you hair grow?



Same speed as anybody else's I'd imagine. I usually cut it every 2/3 weeks, basically once it's got longer than the next set of clipper attachments up. 



fossyant said:


> I do my own as I can't be bothered waiting. My son's booked in for next Tuesday and looks like a mushroom he's got that much hair -won't let us touch it.
> Dunno, those of us that are 'active' just cut it off short.



Short works for me. Wash & go straight out the door. No endless messing around with combs and brushes.



fossyant said:


> It's a big thing all this male grooming lark - totally lost on me too !



I call it male poncification...


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Same speed as anybody else's I'd imagine. I usually cut it every 2/3 weeks, basically once it's got longer than the next set of clipper attachments up.



Makes sense. I cut my hair (by which I mean Beautiful Wife cuts it) pretty short but I then leave it for ages...


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## classic33 (24 Apr 2021)

_"On average, hair tends to grow between 0.5 and 1.7 centimeters per month. This is equivalent to around 0.2 to 0.7 inches."_

This estimate comes from The Trichological Society.


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

classic33 said:


> _"On average, hair tends to grow between 0.5 and 1.7 centimeters per month. This is equivalent to around 0.2 to 0.7 inches."_
> 
> This estimate comes from The Trichological Society.



Mine is in the 1.7cm category....


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## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I call it male poncification...



You can't say that anymore. 

My dad swore by engine oil keeping his hair good (his job - he came back smelling of it every day) - he's 75 with a full head of grey hair - no thinning.


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> Mine is in the 1.7cm category....



And it's a pain.... even cutting it myself. I've seen what I'd look like through my son, and I can't deal with that much hair.


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

I've just been asked to translate instructions into english for the tests now being given out in local kindergartens: they have people translating into a dozen languages or more this weekend...


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've just been asked to translate instructions into english for the tests now being given out in local kindergartens: they have people translating into a dozen languages or more this weekend...



I hope you are getting paid.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I thought most blokes cut their own, or get their OH to cut it for them. Most blokes that I know do. It's quicker to cut it at home than the time it takes to travel to the barbers!
> Currently on my spring #2 intermediate cut. When it gets warmer it's #1 time for a few months, then back to #2 for the autumn. #3 is strictly for the depths of winter.  This hair care stuff for blokes is really easy, I don't know why it's such a big drama for some.


Some men (who still have hair) like to look good, not just like thugs


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> I hope you are getting paid.



I get a "volunteers stipend", which is pocket money. That's okay: I got a lot out of this country over the years if you include the training and support we were given when I couldn't earn anything; I can give a bit back.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

classic33 said:


> Lloyd's Pharmacy in Sainsburys have them. I start using them tomorrow. Been told twice a week, but there's seven tests in the box, making me think its one a day.
> 
> Full instructions inside the box, which I've not opened yet.


They don’t have to all be used at once...


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

I'm yet to get a 'test' but it sounds more uncomfortable than the jab TBH.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> I'm yet to get a 'test' but it sounds more uncomfortable than the jab TBH.


Takes about 30 seconds, barely worth a mention and and no side effects


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

vickster said:


> Some men (who still have hair) like to look good, not just like thugs



I still won't look good.... I don't do mine too short as the boss complains - I once did a summer cut, didn't go down too well. 12mm on the sides and a bit longer on top get's approval.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

fossyant said:


> I still won't look good.... I don't do mine too short as the boss complains - I once did a summer cut, didn't go down too well. 12mm on the sides and a bit longer on top get's approval.


I said some men, not you


----------



## fossyant (24 Apr 2021)

vickster said:


> I said some men, not you



Hehe heh - the lads look great with good hair, as do the girls. All depends upon your lifestyle too - some are going mental without a hair cut, eye brow beading and stuff. It matters to some folk, and the lockdown has really affected many people not being able to get a 'feel good' treatment. I've seen lots of behaviour impacts to all sorts of ages...

Lots of friends missing all that TBH. It's nice for someone to cut your hair, I used to enjoy it !


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

I was getting desperate for a haircut, too long and too thick, especially as I can’t shower at the moment and have to wash over bath!


----------



## C R (24 Apr 2021)

vickster said:


> I was getting desperate for a haircut, too long and too thick, especially as I can’t shower at the moment and have to wash over bath!


How's the recovery going?


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

C R said:


> How's the recovery going?


Slowly but I am back in my own home


----------



## Andy in Germany (24 Apr 2021)

Translation finished. The diagrams had notes in English which makes me think the company has an English version from which they made a German translation, which was then sent to local governments here.

It also occurs that this is probably happening in the thousands of small towns around the country, which seems to be a lot of work. A decentralised country is a wonderful thing but I suspect there will be some calls to have a more centralised response to things like this in future.


----------



## chriswoody (24 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Translation finished. The diagrams had notes in English which makes me think the company has an English version from which they made a German translation, which was then sent to local governments here.
> 
> It also occurs that this is probably happening in the thousands of small towns around the country, which seems to be a lot of work. A decentralised country is a wonderful thing but I suspect there will be some calls to have a more centralised response to things like this in future.



The kits that are being distributed in the schools here have instructions in perfect English, from the design of the box they come in, they actually appear to be destined for English speaking countries, German is a bit further down the instruction sheets.


----------



## DaveReading (24 Apr 2021)

vickster said:


> They don’t have to all be used at once...



In fact there is no prescribed frequency of use. 

The instructions that come with the kit simply say "How often you should test may vary depending on your circumstances and current national or local guidelines".

About twice a week seems to be the consensus.


----------



## vickster (24 Apr 2021)

DaveReading said:


> In fact there is no prescribed frequency of use.
> 
> The instructions that come with the kit simply say "How often you should test may vary depending on your circumstances and current national or local guidelines".
> 
> About twice a week seems to be the consensus.


That was the point too


----------



## Andy in Germany (7 May 2021)

Germany is taking patients from Belgium where the hospitals are struggling:



Meanwhile, we're currently at about 30% of the population in Germany getting their first vaccination, and 8% getting their second. It finally seems to be affecting the numbers of new cases.

Our county has been having well under 100 cases per 100 000 for over seven days so we could reduce the lockdown a bit more, but sensible people have pointed out that if we allow more shops to open people from the adjacent counties, which have much higher rates, will come in and bring C-19 with them, so they are waiting for a bit.

We have the second largest theme park in Europe just to the north and it looks like it will stay closed for the summer.


----------



## Unkraut (7 May 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Germany is taking patients from Belgium where the hospitals are struggling:


This seems to me to be quite generous considering the German healthcare system itself is struggling to cope with the numbers. 


Andy in Germany said:


> We have the second largest theme park in Europe just to the north and it looks like it will stay closed for the summer.


For viewers at home only, let's hope that due to lack of use and maintenance the attractions don't suffer from rust ...


----------



## roubaixtuesday (7 May 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> We have the second largest theme park in Europe just to the north and it looks like it will stay closed for the summer.



UK theme parks are open.


----------



## Ajax Bay (7 May 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Meanwhile, we're currently at about 30% of the population in Germany getting their first vaccination, and 8% getting their second. It finally seems to be affecting the numbers of new cases.
> Our county has been having well under 100 cases per 100 000 for over seven days so we could reduce the lockdown a bit more, but sensible people have pointed out that if we allow more shops to open people from the adjacent counties, which have much higher rates, will come in and bring C-19 with them, so they are waiting for a bit.


Pretty sure the modelling suggests that at the low percentages you quote, vaccinations will have had little impact on the daily case rate. That Germany has got its rate to 1000 per million a day is down to the level of NPI (restrictions etc) which the various Lander are imposing, not vaccinations. The UK is being Germanically (positive compliment!) cautious in its phased lockdown and its daily case rate is 300 per million. With caveats, the prognosis for UK is promising but modelling (for SPI-M and on to SAGE) still suggests a third wave of a moderate nature (mostly cases rather than hospitalisations). Its peak will be suppressed with some NPIs maintained and the vaccination programme rolling on (expected at 70% first dose and 50% second dose by 21 June). I reckon this modelling can be read straight across to Germany and what would happen if they tried to ease restrictions with cases still at a substantial rate.
Perhaps you could solve the problems of people (who are more likely to be infected) resident in other countries by prohibiting their entry at you borders. Does the EU allow its members to impose such restrictions?


----------



## classic33 (7 May 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Pretty sure the modelling suggests that at the low percentages you quote, vaccinations will have had little impact on the daily case rate. That Germany has got its rate to 1000 per million a day is down to the level of NPI (restrictions etc) which the various Lander are imposing, not vaccinations. The UK is being Germanically (positive compliment!) cautious in its phased lockdown and its daily case rate is 300 per million. With caveats, the prognosis for UK is promising but modelling (for SPI-M and on to SAGE) still suggests a third wave of a moderate nature (mostly cases rather than hospitalisations). Its peak will be suppressed with some NPIs maintained and the vaccination programme rolling on (expected at 70% first dose and 50% second dose by 21 June). I reckon this modelling can be read straight across to Germany and what would happen if they tried to ease restrictions with cases still at a substantial rate.
> Perhaps you could solve the problems of people (who are more likely to be infected) resident in other countries by prohibiting their entry at you borders. Does the EU allow its members to impose such restrictions?


Ireland has been restricting access for nearly a year, to essential visits and commercial for the last year*. These restrictions seem set to remain in place this summer.

*Even then you've to provide a negative test result(commercial drivers) and essential visits/returning home 14 days quarantine upon entry.


----------



## Andy in Germany (8 May 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Perhaps you could solve the problems of people (who are more likely to be infected) resident in other countries by prohibiting their entry at you borders. Does the EU allow its members to impose such restrictions?



Yes, members can close their borders, or at least have checks but land borders have always been porous. Now it's very common within the EU for people to live in one country and work in another, which makes it more difficult to shut down borders entirely. Where I live the border is the Rhine so it's a bit easier, but further north it's simply the gap between two fields or even along the middle of a road.

A while back the police in Breisach were checking people coming in to make sure they had a good reason to enter the country but I'm not sure what the current situation is.


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jun 2021)

Advert by the local theme park for casual staff. Apparently they will be opening soon because numbers are dropping in the region. the fact that many visitors will be from outside the region (it isn't called "Europa Park for nothing) doesn't seem to be a factor.

Meanwhile vaccinations are about 40% for one vaccination and 20% for the second, but they're moving much faster now.


----------



## Drago (7 Jun 2021)

Joblust? Sounds like an opening in the porn industry!


----------



## Stephenite (7 Jun 2021)

Just got the jab and sitting in observation. A 20 minute wait - whilst the nanobots pair with my nanobits 😜. The Moderna version.


----------



## fossyant (7 Jun 2021)

No waiting with the AZ, I'd gone in, got jabbed and was on the bike (after unlocking it etc) in 15 minutes. They are warning about blood clots now though, which takes a bit longer.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (7 Jun 2021)

fossyant said:


> No waiting with the AZ, I'd gone in, got jabbed and was on the bike (after unlocking it etc) in 15 minutes. They are warning about blood clots now though, which takes a bit longer.



Been warning about it for weeks now - we were given a doc' to read whilst queuing and a quick precis by the jabber pre-jab.


----------



## Andy in Germany (7 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> Joblust? Sounds like an opening in the porn industry!



I should have known better...

I guess I've been here so long that I don't generally see things like that any more...


----------



## Andy in Germany (8 Jun 2021)

More cars from other European countries driving past today. We are near the French border, but I'm still not convinced of the wisdom of letting things ease off that quickly. 

That said, I'm fortunate that I don't have a financial stake either way.


----------



## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2021)

I've had my second jab, rubbish from anti-vaxxers about injecting you with mind-controlling nanoprobes. I'm fit as a fiddle & can now pick up Ken Bruce in Dolby 5.1


----------



## fossyant (9 Jun 2021)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I've had my second jab, rubbish from anti-vaxxers about injecting you with mind-controlling nanoprobes. I'm fit as a fiddle & can now pick up Ken Bruce in Dolby 5.1



Who ? You are supposed to get 5G, not Dolby 5.1. You got a dodgy batch from China


----------



## Andy in Germany (15 Jun 2021)

On Sunday I cycled to within sight of France and along the border for a bit. I didn't cross as you need a negative Covid test at the moment. 

Being this close to the border can throw up anomalies as my cell phone is often closer to a French tower than a German one. I'm used to getting a "Welcome to France" message from my phone but this time I got one from the German government reminding me that if I've been to France I have to observe quarantine regulations...


----------



## Ajax Bay (15 Jun 2021)

You wait till the Delta variant takes over. If countries think they've been just about handling it up to now, their effective R number will jump 50%. The UK's history of colonialism in India has meant strong ties and family connections exist and so Delta VoC importation was fast, helped by lots of probably unnecessary travel to and from India and border/quarantine protocol failure in late March and April. We know the extent and progress of the Delta Vui/VoC because of UK's world leading genomic analysis capacity and expertise. Continental Europe and the USA will slowly import this variant: be prepared.


----------



## dodgy (16 Jun 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Continental Europe and the USA will slowly import this variant: be prepared.



Of course, there's never any question of that. This is why containment is close to futile, only takes 1 case through then eventually it's out of control. But, in a setting of increasing vaccination rates, USA and parts of Europe will be battling Delta at an advantage, we had to defend against it when vaccination levels and awareness were much lower.

Just trying to add an optimistic pov.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (16 Jun 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> You wait till the Delta variant takes over. If countries think they've been just about handling it up to now, their effective R number will jump 50%. The UK's history of colonialism in India has meant strong ties and family connections exist and so Delta VoC importation was fast, helped by lots of probably unnecessary travel to and from India and border/quarantine protocol failure in late March and April. We know the extent and progress of the Delta Vui/VoC because of UK's world leading genomic analysis capacity and expertise. Continental Europe and the USA will slowly import this variant: be prepared.
> View attachment 594092



I think (and hope) that you're unduly pessimistic on the impact on continental Europe.

Here's the same data you've presented but on log scale:





Continental Europe is now at s similar position to where we were early April with very low and rapidly falling caseloads.

It's taken ten weeks to get to where we are now.

Europe, however, is only about six weeks behind on vaccination, and vaccinating faster than we are.

Nothing is certain, but it looks likely they'll vaccinate ahead of a big delta impact.

[Edit: the Us could be in a worse position]


----------



## Drago (17 Jun 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> The UK's history of colonialism in India has meant strong ties and family connections exist and so Delta VoC importation was fast..


Not only that, but clinical trials show that habitual pith helmet weaters are 70% more likely to die of a stiff upper lip than seek medical help.


----------



## Andy in Germany (17 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> Not only that, but clinical trials show that habitual pith helmet weaters are 70% more likely to die of a stiff upper lip than seek medical help.



I believe the same trials show that instructions on "how to duck when wearing a pith helmet" improved matters: Education saves lives...


----------



## vickster (8 Jul 2021)

Self isolating for 7 days having been pinged by test & trace this morning. Fine but getting test later 
I don’t know anyone who’s tested positive but I did take a flight on Friday and Monday so perhaps the culprit (I tested negative on arrival in Jersey on Friday).
Annoying timing as I had plans for my birthday on Monday


----------



## vickster (10 Jul 2021)

PCR test negative, meant to isolate until Weds though


----------



## Andy in Germany (10 Jul 2021)

Just checked. Our home state has finally passed the 50% mark for first vaccinations, and 40% for both vaccinations. Within the county we have a 45% full vaccination rate and they're increasing capacity. Germany seems to have got itself together a bit more now, although I imagine there will be some searching questions being asked about what the Hölle happened at the start of the programme...
We still have some restrictions but they are limited: lockdowns are phased in and out by state and county depending on the case numbers. Right now we have 3.6 per 100 000 and zero deaths.


----------



## Stephenite (15 Aug 2021)

I had dose number two on wednesday. Rather uneventful. Just a sore arm for a couple of days.


----------



## Ajax Bay (15 Aug 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I think (and hope) that you're unduly pessimistic on the impact on continental Europe.
> Here's the same data you've presented but on log scale:
> View attachment 594124
> 
> ...


Thought I'd come back to this (your post: 16 Jun). Here's the current log graph. Due pessimism?
How come Germany is doing so much better: discipline, testing or reporting regime?


----------



## Ajax Bay (15 Aug 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Thought I'd come back to this. Here's the current log graph. Due pessimism?
> How come Germany is doing so much better: discipline, testing or reporting regime?


Here's a clue to the testing. The UK is conducting 10.98 tests per 1000, daily (down about 25% from the peak in early July, 10 days before the cases peaked btw) and Germany is conducting 1.00 test per 1000. Mmmm?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (15 Aug 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Thought I'd come back to this. Here's the current log graph. Due pessimism?
> How come Germany is doing so much better: discipline, testing or reporting regime?
> View attachment 604433



Well, I'd say I called that exactly right! This is of course largely luck, it is impossible to predict with any certainty as it depends on behaviours as well as the vicissitudes of exponentials.

Europe has avoided the worst of it, and parts of the the US has it very bad. 

I don't know enough about Germany to comment really, but my understanding is they still have restrictions in place, and a very effective T&T system. The latter may be in trouble if that consistent exponential rise continues though. 

The UK is potentially heading for trouble as we enter a new school term without vaccinating children as almost all of the rest of Europe is.

There is, I think still potential for further waves everywhere in Europe, including the UK. I'm not sure if there is a strategy or will to plan ahead and respond quickly, or hold out to the last minute and suffer the consequences, as we have before. 

What say you?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (15 Aug 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Here's a clue to the testing:
> View attachment 604436



Here's a different clue to the testing:


----------



## Ajax Bay (15 Aug 2021)

Have amended my post with the testing comparison data: Germany tests at 9% of the UK rate: a very effective T&T?
Will use other thread.


----------



## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Here's a clue to the testing. The UK is conducting 10.98 tests per 1000, daily (down about 25% from the peak in early July, 10 days before the cases peaked btw) and *Germany is conducting 1.00 test per 1000*. Mmmm?





Ajax Bay said:


> Have amended my post with the testing comparison data: Germany tests at 9% of the UK rate: a very effective T&T?
> Will use other thread.



Context, as always is everything. In this case it's possibly because a lot of tests are self administered now so they aren't coming under the official statistics: for example, Beautiful Daughter gets two "quick tests" a week from Kindergarten which Beautiful Wife administers and has to present to the Kindergarten staff, but that won't be recorded unless it's positive, in which case she has to do a full test, which will be recorded. Also evidence of tests or vaccine certificates are required for some cafes and events.

Multiply that up for every Kindergarten and school or event in Germany and you'll see that far more people than 1:1000 are being tested , and probably far more than 10:1000; that's just showing the "second line" of tests for people actually showing symptoms or positive tests.

In the meantime, we still have masks in shops and on trains et c, and compliance is pretty high.


----------



## Ajax Bay (15 Aug 2021)

Yes, the UK test data include LFTs reported.
So this is a 'lack of reporting' then, combined with the stereotypical Teutonic discipline.
Why don't Germans report positive and negative LFTs and so "come under the official statistics"?


----------



## Andy in Germany (16 Aug 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Yes, the UK test data include LFTs reported.
> So this is a 'lack of reporting' then, combined with the stereotypical Teutonic discipline.
> Why don't Germans report positive and negative LFTs and so "come under the official statistics"?



If this is the case I suspect because it isn't considered necessary: The Kindergarten or the School holding a graduation needs to know you have a negative, but no-one else does.


----------



## Johnno260 (5 Nov 2021)

Well the children and myself tested positive.

Wife is double vax + booster and is holding out.






Edit: The wife’s booster was Pfizer and her first 2 doses were AZ in case the information is helpful to anyone.
She is also doing a daily lateral flow test, so far so good, fingers crossed.


----------



## Drago (14 Nov 2021)

Had my booster today. My first two were the Piffizzer, but the booster was Modernart. I suspect that I now glow in the dark like the Ready Brek kids did in the 70's.


----------



## Johnno260 (15 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Had my booster today. My first two were the Piffizzer, but the booster was Modernart. I suspect that I now glow in the dark like the Ready Brek kids did in the 70's.



Now I want some ready brek haha


----------



## SpokeyDokey (15 Nov 2021)

Had Pfizer (or whatever it's now called) booster today.

Well organised centre in Kendal as per last two times - a credit to all involved.


----------



## Jenkins (15 Nov 2021)

Pfizer booster for me as well this morning. Also had it for the initial vaccinations with no effects, so hoping for the same lack of reaction this time.


----------



## youngoldbloke (15 Nov 2021)

Pfizer booster, no adverse reactions at all. First two AZ, felt pretty knocked out for a couple of days.


----------



## gbb (15 Nov 2021)

Despite coming into close contact with my Grandaughter (5) last Sunday (8 days ago) who consequently tested positive that night, along with her mum...we (wife n myself) have remained negative.
LFT tested every workday since, no symptoms, temps, anything. Ironic because she loves rough and tumble , carries, cuddles etc.
We have done a couple drive by drop offs of essentials and some treats , theyve all generally been ok (4 out of 5 of them have now tested positive)
The first two of them infected have shown negative LFTs after 6 or 7 days, it must be waning in them.
None of them, mum n dad particually, are vaccinated at all, something i disagree with but respect their choice.

I did warn my colleagues, give a little extra space, just in case.
All good though....so far.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (16 Nov 2021)

Day after Pfizer booster and no adverse reaction at all. Same as the two AZ shots. Lucky me!


----------



## Drago (16 Nov 2021)

More or less over the side effects of the booster. Not as bad as the first time. Still, far rather that than the covid lurgie.


----------



## gavroche (16 Nov 2021)

Having my third jab at 9.39 tomorrow morning. Mrs G had hers two weeks ago with no side effect. We also both had the flu jab last week.


----------



## All uphill (16 Nov 2021)

Booster yesterday; low energy and mild headache today. My son says I am having a one day taster of long covid


----------



## VelvetUnderpants (17 Nov 2021)

I had my booster yesterday (Pfizer), I didn't have a great night's sleep and feel run down and a bit achy this morning, so I am taking it easy and catch up on a bit of reading.

I had the same symptoms after my second Pfizer jab, but it only lasted 24 hours, so hopefully I will back on my feet tomorrow all being well. It's nothing compared to having had the virus in May of last year.


----------



## lazybloke (17 Nov 2021)

My youngest is in the 12-15 age group and was offered her covid jab at school last month. The vaccination service balked at the consent form due to a complicated medical history, and our GP agreed to refer the matter to a consultant; the instruction was NOT to vaccinate without further approval.

A worrying time, because she is also at increased risk of "complications" from Covid; we were caught between a rock and a hard place!
Finally went ahead with the jab yesterday after getting approval on Monday afternoon. 

Totaly lousy timing for my son to come home from school yesterday with news that his pal had just tested positive....
All LF tests are negative so far!


----------



## Johnno260 (18 Nov 2021)

Still suffering from random temperature spikes, no sense or smell and a little lethargic still.

Missing not going out on the bike.

Only plus is I'm saving on fuel, may order some more Lego to keep me amused I seem to have got addicted to this now! haha


----------



## lazybloke (18 Nov 2021)

Just had to change my vote - my lateral flow test this morning was positive. Damn.
Am double jabbed, but probably have low immunity because my booster is due on Monday; I'll have to postpone that.

Didn't have any of the traditional symptoms, just a headache and runny nose/sneezing.
Those last two symptoms kept me away overnight, so am tired and a bit tender this morning.

The rest of the family all tested negative but the children were delighted to be told to stay at home by the school. My better half took them for PCR tests at the local drive-through, and if negative I think the kids can go back to school on Monday. Hope so, the eldest is just about to have his mocks, so it's a terrible time for disruption of his education.

No rush for my PCR test, so mine's coming by post.


Right, what's good on daytime TV?


----------



## classic33 (18 Nov 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Just had to change my vote - my lateral flow test this morning was positive. Damn.
> Am double jabbed, but probably have low immunity because my booster is due on Monday; I'll have to postpone that.
> 
> Didn't have any of the traditional symptoms, just a headache and runny nose/sneezing.
> ...


Sorry to hear that.

There's always loose women if you find yourself with nowt to watch.


----------



## lazybloke (18 Nov 2021)

classic33 said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> There's always loose women if you find yourself with nowt to watch.


Do you want me to feel worse?

"Black mirror" on Netflix is more my thing


----------



## Johnno260 (18 Nov 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Do you want me to feel worse?
> 
> "Black mirror" on Netflix is more my thing



I’m hearing the lost in space series is meant to be decent, but I haven’t checked it out yet.


----------



## All uphill (18 Nov 2021)

Our son, late 20's, hadn't had a day sick since primary school in July 2020 when he got the virus. He had a mild case followed by severe long covid. He starts work again part-time next week. 16 months unable to work and with no certainty about recovery.

Antivaxxers don't know the risks they are taking. At least conventional Russian roulette leaves you dead or alive, not somewhere in between.


----------



## VelvetUnderpants (18 Nov 2021)

I had my Covid booster jab on Tuesday. Just out of interest I just looked on my NHS app to see if it shows on my record and it doesn't. Should it and if not who should I contact to find out why not.

When I had it done, the nurse has trouble with her computer accessing the internet to register my details, so a male member of staff asked for my details again and registered my details on his mobile phone. He said it would show on my records within 24 hours.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (18 Nov 2021)

VelvetUnderpants said:


> I had my Covid booster jab on Tuesday. Just out of interest I just looked on my NHS app to see if it shows on my record and it doesn't. Should it and if not who should I contact to find out why not.
> 
> When I had it done, the nurse has trouble with her computer accessing the internet to register my details, so a male member of staff asked for my details again and registered my details on his mobile phone. He said it would show on my records within 24 hours.



The doctor who administered mine this Monday gone said that there is no facility to display it at the moment as the system was not designed with a booster in mind.

How accurate this is I do not know.

Keep your card!


----------



## mistyoptic (18 Nov 2021)

VelvetUnderpants said:


> I had my Covid booster jab on Tuesday. Just out of interest I just looked on my NHS app to see if it shows on my record and it doesn't. Should it and if not who should I contact to find out why not.
> 
> When I had it done, the nurse has trouble with her computer accessing the internet to register my details, so a male member of staff asked for my details again and registered my details on his mobile phone. He said it would show on my records within 24 hours.


It was reported this week that the COVID pass was not designed for a booster record and I guess the same is true of the nhs app


----------



## ColinJ (18 Nov 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Keep your card!


I had forgotten that I got cards for both vaccinations. I found them in my wallet t'other day, hidden behind my railcard.


----------



## mistyoptic (18 Nov 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Keep your card!


CARD! You were lucky. We just got a scrap of paper with the date and batch number scrawled on it


----------



## mistyoptic (18 Nov 2021)

mistyoptic said:


> CARD! You were lucky. We just got a scrap of paper with the date and batch number scrawled on it


Oh and, for the record, I had my booster last Saturday and I still feel carp - headache etc. Tested in case but negative


----------



## Jenkins (19 Nov 2021)

VelvetUnderpants said:


> I had my Covid booster jab on Tuesday. Just out of interest I just looked on my NHS app to see if it shows on my record and it doesn't. Should it and if not who should I contact to find out why not.
> 
> When I had it done, the nurse has trouble with her computer accessing the internet to register my details, so a male member of staff asked for my details again and registered my details on his mobile phone. He said it would show on my records within 24 hours.


I had the booster on Monday morning and it was showing on the NHS app on Wednesday evening under "Your health - check your Covid-19 vaccination record" but not under the "Get your NHS COVID pass" option.


----------



## VelvetUnderpants (19 Nov 2021)

Jenkins said:


> I had the booster on Monday morning and it was showing on the NHS app on Wednesday evening under "Your health - check your Covid-19 vaccination record" but not under the "Get your NHS COVID pass" option.



I just checked my NHS app as you advised. My latest vaccination is showing in the "Your Health" section.

Thanks


----------



## vickster (19 Nov 2021)

Booster vaccines to be added to NHS Covid Pass for travel https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59345184


----------



## SpokeyDokey (19 Nov 2021)

Jenkins said:


> I had the booster on Monday morning and it was showing on the NHS app on Wednesday evening under "Your health - check your Covid-19 vaccination record" but not under the "Get your NHS COVID pass" option.



From today apparently. 

Just checked and mine is there. 

Although I noticed that my Pass expires at the end of 2021.

Is this a default?


----------



## Jenkins (19 Nov 2021)

SpokeyDokey said:


> From today apparently.
> 
> Just checked and mine is there.
> 
> ...


I think that the Covid Pass 2d barcode runs for a month from the date of issue. And as has already been noted, I've just checked and the booster is shown in the Covid Pass section.


----------



## oldwheels (19 Nov 2021)

Just checked my phone and in Scotland there appears to be no expiry date but there are 2 sections and one gives the actual vaccination dates but only for the first 2 and not the 3rd. The second booster is not legally required even tho’ it is recommended.
I have also just done a home test which came up negative as one on my grandsons has tested positive. So far he only has a sore throat and nobody else in the family is positive.


----------



## DCLane (19 Nov 2021)

Having had my booster jab (Pfizer Biontech) on Tuesday I felt pretty awful on Wednesday/Thursday, struggling through the online lecture I was giving on Thursday afternoon.

Today I've perked up enough to do a bit more around the house.

It didn't seem as bad as the AstraZeneca one, which knocked me flat for 1-2 weeks afterwards.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (19 Nov 2021)

Jenkins said:


> I think that the Covid Pass 2d barcode runs for a month from the date of issue. And as has already been noted, I've just checked and the booster is shown in the Covid Pass section.


My wife says it updates every time the App is opened. 

I'll have to schedule a test.


----------



## gbb (21 Nov 2021)

gbb said:


> Despite coming into close contact with my Grandaughter (5) last Sunday (8 days ago) who consequently tested positive that night, along with her mum...we (wife n myself) have remained negative.
> LFT tested every workday since, no symptoms, temps, anything. Ironic because she loves rough and tumble , carries, cuddles etc.
> We have done a couple drive by drop offs of essentials and some treats , theyve all generally been ok (4 out of 5 of them have now tested positive)
> The first two of them infected have shown negative LFTs after 6 or 7 days, it must be waning in them.
> ...


Well, a further 6 days later, it ripped through my sons family, himself, partner, 2 children the youngest (1 YO) stayed free.
Gd (5) got no symptoms whatsoever.
Gs (7) was a bit under the weather but not too bad,
Son got it last, just getting his taste back a little, felt like carp, hardly eaten anything for 4 days.
His partner, loss of taste, felt carp, its maybe caused an IBD flare this week with her being under the weather.
They're both anti vax...although by his own admission, he is considerably more aware now how it makes you feel. But they're still nit moving on having the vax.


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Nov 2021)

Booked my booster appointment, in a few weeks - the 6-monthiversary of my 2nd jab


----------



## lazybloke (28 Nov 2021)

My son was supposed to start his mocks tomorrow, but just tested positive (lateral flow).
All four of us now.


----------



## Ajax Bay (7 Dec 2021)

Pfizer booster last Sunday (AZ for 1&2) and flu in the other arm. Very slightly tender (no pain) overnight but since then: nothing. Hope it's working.


----------



## fossyant (7 Dec 2021)

Boosted yesterday, NHS App record updated today. So far OK with it, very mild soreness in my arm, but that's it. The ruddy cold I've got can bugger off, but that's now't to do with the jab.


----------



## Johnno260 (7 Dec 2021)

My isolation ended on the 13th November, but I continued to work from home for additional 2 weeks as I was having random temperature spikes, I was also having heart palpitations, both these symptoms have stopped now, still virtually no sense of smell or taste, the only things I can taste is aniseed, and liquorice very weakly.


----------



## Drago (7 Dec 2021)

An anti vax friend of mine was due to see the Cadillac 3 on Thursday, but has just discovered the venue requires proof of vaccination. If nothing else its given me something to laugh about


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> An anti vax friend of mine was due to see the Cadillac 3 on Thursday, but has just discovered the venue requires proof of vaccination. If nothing else its given me something to laugh about


Ridiculous made up story.

Imagine the idea of @Drago having a friend.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (11 Dec 2021)

Had my booster this morning. A sore arm has come on quicker than with the AZ doses and I feel fatigued now. Hopefully that feeling will clear overnight as I have things to do tomorrow.


----------



## MontyVeda (19 Dec 2021)

Woke up with a fever in the early hours of yesterday morning; shivering, cold sweats, every bone aching like crazy, hot flushes.

In retrospect i think it's something I've ingested as my symptoms eased after a vomiting session mid morning, although even today I'm still running a temp and don't feel right.

Decided to book a C19 test just to be on the safe side, since fever and temp are two of the symptoms... but they only gone and closed down the walk-in centre in town, leaving a drive through on the outskirts, so the nearest is walk-in is in Morecambe, an 8 mile round trip.

Now bearing in mind the advice if showing symptoms is to not use public transport, but to walk or cycle instead... why are they sending people to a destination that's so far away? It's fortunate i cycle, although still feeling very fatigued from yesterday's fever, and it's bollock freezing... isn't ideal. Surely if they want to keep on top of this pandemic, they'd be making it easier to get tested, not harder


----------



## vickster (19 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Woke up with a fever in the early hours of yesterday morning; shivering, cold sweats, every bone aching like crazy, hot flushes.
> 
> In retrospect i think it's something I've ingested as my symptoms eased after a vomiting session mid morning, although even today I'm still running a temp and don't feel right.
> 
> ...


Do a lateral flow asap and get a PCR through post, isolating in the meantime of course


----------



## Johnno260 (19 Dec 2021)

vickster said:


> Do a lateral flow asap and get a PCR through post, isolating in the meantime of course



@MontyVeda What Vickster said it’s the best advise.

If you have a LFT do that, if you don’t order a PCR mate, don’t go out today it’s bitter, I’m in the south east so probably warmer here than elsewhere.


----------



## lazybloke (19 Dec 2021)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Had my booster this morning. A sore arm has come on quicker than with the AZ doses and I feel fatigued now. Hopefully that feeling will clear overnight as I have things to do tomorrow.


A Royal Marines Commando administered my Pfizer booster yesterday.

Was waiting from the sharp scratch when a 20-ish year old in the next booth collapsed backwards in a dead faint, and staff rushed to put screens around him. I've experienced the same in the past (quite a few years ago) so was a little apprehensive - but my jab went without a hitch. 


No overnight feverishness this time, but my arm does feel quite tender/bruised this morning - it wasn't enough to stop me sleeping on my arm, but I'm surprised because my AZ jabs didn't cause any tenderness.


----------



## ColinJ (19 Dec 2021)

lazybloke said:


> Was waiting from the sharp scratch when a 20-ish year old in the next booth collapsed backwards in a dead faint, and staff rushed to put screens around him. I've experienced the same in the past (quite a few years ago) so was a little apprehensive - but my jab went without a hitch.


That happened to a boy in front of me in the school jab queue about 50 years ago. It freaked me out so I didn't hold still while mine was being done, and so that hurt way more than it should have done. It has taken me many years to calm down about having them done...


----------



## MontyVeda (19 Dec 2021)

vickster said:


> Do a lateral flow asap and get a PCR through post, isolating in the meantime of course


Did a lateral flow this morning which was negative, but not allowed back into work until I've had two negative tests. I did order a PCR through the post but by the time it's arrived and been sent back, I'd have lost a week of work, hence doing the 8 mile round trip to Morecambe to get one ASAP.


----------



## Slick (19 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Did a lateral flow this morning which was negative, but not allowed back into work until I've had two negative tests. I did order a PCR through the post but by the time it's arrived and been sent back, I'd have lost a week of work, hence doing the 8 mile round trip to Morecambe to get one ASAP.


I thought there was already protection in place so nobody who were required to self isolate didn't lose any cash?


----------



## Ajax Bay (19 Dec 2021)

Zoe reports top five symptoms (omicron and delta) are: 

runny nose
headache
fatigue (either mild or severe)
sneezing
sore throat
Not as per gov.uk site. Difficult to tell whether 'just a cold' or worse. LFT has to be first reaction, but (somewhere) reported that first 24 hours of symptoms, LFT will not pick up, but accurate after 24 hours.


----------



## MontyVeda (19 Dec 2021)

Slick said:


> I thought there was already protection in place so nobody who were required to self isolate didn't lose any cash?


Yeah but (as i understand it) it's SSP... doesn't come close to going to work, money wise


----------



## vickster (19 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Yeah but (as i understand it) it's SSP... doesn't come close to going to work, money wise


Up to £500 available if low income
https://www.gov.uk/test-and-trace-support-payment


----------



## derrick (19 Dec 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Zoe reports top five symptoms (omicron and delta) are:
> 
> runny nose
> headache
> ...


Cold, just had the same, lasted nearly three weeks.


----------



## fossyant (19 Dec 2021)

The colleague that decided to forgo our meal last week with a right stinker of a cold, has eventually tested positive. Phew.


----------



## MontyVeda (20 Dec 2021)

How long have people waited for their test result to come though?

My boss says they've all been about 24 hours.

The advice is to wait 24 to 72 hours.

I did call 119 this afternoon who a: can't chase up results before the 72 hours is up, and b: did confirm that my test has been 'registered'. Does that mean it's been done or that they've only received it?


----------



## lazybloke (20 Dec 2021)

Generally within 48 hours days, from the day of the test (drive through) or the day you posted it.


----------



## vickster (20 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> How long have people waited for their test result to come though?
> 
> My boss says they've all been about 24 hours.
> 
> ...


Within 24-48 hours


----------



## C R (20 Dec 2021)

We've had some take close to 48 hours, but most of the time it takes less than 24.


----------



## Johnno260 (20 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> How long have people waited for their test result to come though?
> 
> My boss says they've all been about 24 hours.
> 
> ...



Mine I got within 24hrs, but cases are up so maybe testing is under pressure and running slower currently.


----------



## MontyVeda (20 Dec 2021)

just got it... negative


----------



## Stephenite (22 Dec 2021)

I can smell bread!

For the first time in five days I can smell something. It’s faint but it is there. I can’t smell the ‘smelly’ cheese I’m putting on it though. No taste at all yet but there’s progress


----------



## Johnno260 (22 Dec 2021)

Daughter has a sudden temperature and cough 5pm fine by 6pm not a happy bunny, so much for having Christmas with the extended family.

Need to book her a test, but the results will no doubt be delayed, and as she tested positive in November the chances are we get a false positive which means isolate anyway, we were advised getting another PCR within 90 days of a positive can throw out false positives. 

Now I need to see if the butchers can do something with the Turkey


----------



## classic33 (22 Dec 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> Daughter has a sudden temperature and cough 5pm fine by 6pm not a happy bunny, so much for having Christmas with the extended family.
> 
> Need to book her a test, but the results will no doubt be delayed, and as she tested positive in November the chances are we get a false positive which means isolate anyway, we were advised getting another PCR within 90 days of a positive can throw out false positives.
> 
> Now I need to see if the butchers can do something with the Turkey


Can you do a lateral flow test, or are you not willing to take a chance.

This isn't having a go at you. A "what killed the cat question", as to why you're willing to forgo the the day itself.

Best o'luck with any test by the way.


----------



## Johnno260 (22 Dec 2021)

classic33 said:


> Can you do a lateral flow test, or are you not willing to take a chance.
> 
> This isn't having a go at you. A "what killed the cat question", as to why you're willing to forgo the the day itself.
> 
> Best o'luck with any test by the way.



Last PCR took 2hrs to get done, but if she needs it she needs it, we have LFT at home, may do one of those and if it’s positive do the PCR.

It’s my wife I feel bad for, she is a nurse and worked last Christmas, this is her year off.

It is what it is, just have to deal with the hand you’re dealt.


----------



## classic33 (22 Dec 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> Last PCR took 2hrs to get done, but if she needs it she needs it, we have LFT at home, may do one of those and if it’s positive do the PCR.
> 
> It’s my wife I feel bad for, she is a nurse and worked last Christmas, this is her year off.
> 
> It is what it is, just have to deal with the hand you’re dealt.


And the chance to be with family may just have been removed from you all.

Fingers crossed


----------



## Badger_Boom (23 Dec 2021)

We felt ill last Tuesday, got tested on Wednesday afternoon, and got our positive (bah!) results late Thursday evening which threw the first week of our Christmas plans into disarray. Thanks to the new seven day isolation rules we should be free tomorrow rather than Christmas day provided we LFT test negative again in the morning.


----------



## Slick (23 Dec 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> Last PCR took 2hrs to get done, but if she needs it she needs it, we have LFT at home, may do one of those and if it’s positive do the PCR.
> 
> It’s my wife I feel bad for, she is a nurse and worked last Christmas, this is her year off.
> 
> It is what it is, just have to deal with the hand you’re dealt.


I would go with an LFT for now as a PCR will almost certainly return a positive although I think they reduced that from 90 days to 60.
Good Luck


----------



## Illaveago (23 Dec 2021)

My wife has just said that my daughter has stopped eating meat ! I was surprised but my wife said that she doesn't like the taste anymore . Our other daughter said that it can be one of the side effects of having had the virus . I have heard that some people lose their sense of taste or smell but not change of taste .


----------



## Johnno260 (23 Dec 2021)

Illaveago said:


> My wife has just said that my daughter has stopped eating meat ! I was surprised but my wife said that she doesn't like the taste anymore . Our other daughter said that it can be one of the side effects of having had the virus . I have heard that some people lose their sense of taste or smell but not change of taste .



for me my taste and smell is still muted, mulled wine almost made me throw up it tastes horrible now.


----------



## Kingfisher101 (23 Dec 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> for me my taste and smell is still muted, mulled wine almost made me throw up it tastes horrible now.


Sounds pretty normal, mulled wine is horrible anyway and all colds can cause problems with smell and taste etc,


----------



## Johnno260 (23 Dec 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> Sounds pretty normal, mulled wine is horrible anyway and all colds can cause problems with smell and taste etc,



I used to like it but don't since, and Bombay mix I detest now! 

Wife work (she is a nurse) insisted upon a PCR, little one did it with little to no resistance this time, time will tell, but I don't doubt we won't get it before Christmas day.

Butcher sorted the Turkey so we could split it between the house holds, assuming we can't mix he got a tip as they're kinda busy this time of year and it was short notice.

Looks like a Christmas Zoom dinner haha


----------



## gbb (23 Dec 2021)

Several folk at work, wife and myself have been struggling a bit, slightly lethargic, headache, just not on song...but as confirmed by LFTs this morning and on several other occasions...negative for Covid.
We forget, sometimes there's just a bug doing the rounds. Feel much more with it today.

And then i look around work, you'd never know there was a pandemic, staff, some senior but many many agency staff walking round, no masks, poorly fitted masks, not observing the one way system, no social distancing, herding off and on packed coaches, arriving in packed cars.....its little wonder infection rates are rocketing if our workplace staff are typical.  How on earth it isnt ripping through the place i don't know...or maybe it is ?


----------



## Stephenite (23 Dec 2021)

gbb said:


> How on earth it isnt ripping through the place i don't know...or maybe it is ?



It’s the vaccine doing its job, I would have thought.

There were three in the house with COVID for a week before I caught it. I think if I’d been more disciplined with regards to distancing and the like I could have gotten away with it. But how does a father distance from his six year old daughter?


----------



## classic33 (13 Jan 2022)

Question for those still self testing, and taking any medication on a daily basis.

How do you decide when to test? 
Do you work it around the medication or work the medication around the testing?


----------



## Julia9054 (13 Jan 2022)

classic33 said:


> Question for those still self testing, and taking any medication on a daily basis.
> 
> How do you decide when to test?
> Do you work it around the medication or work the medication around the testing?


Since none of my meds go up my nose, I actually hadn't considered they might interfere with the test.


----------



## PaulSB (13 Jan 2022)

classic33 said:


> Question for those still self testing, and taking any medication on a daily basis.
> 
> How do you decide when to test?
> Do you work it around the medication or work the medication around the testing?


Interesting thought and one which hadn't occurred to me. I take meds at 08.00, 20.00 and 22.00.

This may sound a little silly but I test after I've I've washed or showered and then dressed. I'm scrupulous about cleaning the test area, hands, make I'm ready with a timer etc. Sounds a bit anal but I want to know I've done my best to get the right result.

I was positive December 20th to 31st, my son has been home and positive for seven days now. My wife remains negative. Weird.


----------



## Bazzer (13 Jan 2022)

As with Julia, never given it a consideration for oral medication. But the meds I take are at bed time.


----------



## Julia9054 (13 Jan 2022)

PaulSB said:


> a bit anal


You may be doing it wrong


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jan 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Since none of my meds go up my nose, I actually hadn't considered they might interfere with the test.


Same here. Morning and evening tablets. Tests done on random days at random times, depending whether I've been out/am planning to go out.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Jan 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I'm scrupulous about cleaning the test area, hands, make I'm ready with a timer etc. Sounds a bit anal but I want to know I've done my best to get the right result.


I was the same for the tests that I did. Which reminds me - I'll do another one later.

I had the opposite with my regular INR blood test. That involves a small fingerprick blood sample being taken and put on a test slide. The staff at the health centre ask everybody to sanitise their hands when they enter the building but I was told by the staff taking the sample not to do it because the gel might mess up the blood sample.


----------



## youngoldbloke (13 Jan 2022)

I use a nasal spray every morning for chronic rhinitis, so if i need a test I do it before the spray, and other daily medication, and before eating or drinking anything.


----------



## gbb (15 Jan 2022)

Far more infections with omicron round here, seems people are getting it everywhere.
Grandson (21) has it at the moment, several volleagues talk of themselves, friends and family catching it, low impact generally and passes quite quickly.
We were literally driving into a street this morning to pick up two other grandkids for the rest of the weekend, discussing whether to take them to a play faciliyy, i thought too dodgy considering how prevelent it is in schools...and as we were nearing the house, kids mum rang and said ' I'd turn around, grandson (8) has tested positive. Kids are gutted, 5yo grandaughter cried her eyes out ...i wanna go to grandads .
Thank heavens mum n dad were sensible and tested before we got there.

LFT fir me this morning, negative despite a headache which did make me a but nervous tbh.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (15 Jan 2022)

Mod Note:
Some off topic posts (better on the main Corona Virus thread) have been deleted.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (15 Jan 2022)

So far so good. A colleague at my wife’s work has tested positive. So we’re doing the LFTs and watching out if anything doesn't feel normal. I find regular exercise helpful as it also gives a sign if things aren’t quite right.


----------



## classic33 (15 Jan 2022)

Still negative, despite having been a close contact of someone who tested positive.
No symptoms either.


----------



## Ajax Bay (16 Jan 2022)

Vaccine must be giving you a bit of protection, maybe. Edit to add: I realise you had had just the one dose, with adverse consequences as you'd feared. But maybe just that one dose has helped.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jan 2022)

This is very vague, verging on the useless: Friend of mine tested positive not long after xmas. His wife remained negative. Fortunately for them they live in a big house so could keep away from each other. He has now tested negative. I don't have all the details but I think he was unwell but not seriously ill. So another anecdotal report of a triple jabbed person not being hit too hard by what may (probably?) have been Omicron.

My wife and I have managed to remain unscathed throughout.

In other news, my local chemist has LFTs.


----------



## classic33 (16 Jan 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Vaccine must be giving you a bit of protection, maybe.


The one shot/jab?
It's the first vaccination I've ever had. 
I did watch as others came back into the class with sore/dead arms when they gave them at school.


----------



## Julia9054 (16 Jan 2022)

I think alot of it is down to luck. Gawd knows how I haven't had it given that I must have been exposed lots of times in school. Lots of my colleagues have had it. I don't know any who are not vaccinated and boosted.


----------



## gbb (16 Jan 2022)

Did a welfare run this motning, took some food, nappies etc to our DILs, grandson (8) tested positive yesterday, today grandaughter (5) tested positive too. Both feel a little poorly, grandaughter Imogen said she wanted steak slice, duly brought by us, cooked by mum and eaten . When i feel unwell, slightly spicy food seems to hit the spot, perhaps she finds the same.


----------



## gbb (16 Jan 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I think alot of it is down to luck. Gawd knows how I haven't had it given that I must have been exposed lots of times in school. Lots of my colleagues have had it. I don't know any who are not vaccinated and boosted.


I often wonder the same, large factory, hundreds of workers, many who dont seem to give a ....yet i havnt had it (yet)
In my wifes year at at school, circa 60 children, over 50% infected or self isolating plus a good few teachers /support staff.
Self discipline perhaps ? I use sanitiser regularly, if i use a vending machine i sanitise, stuff like that. Mask wear whenever i can..

Is it a good thing ?...is it better to get infected and build (hopefully) some resistance ? But then my mum (91) deserves protecting.

Its a conundrum, the whole thing.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (16 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> This is very vague, verging on the useless: Friend of mine tested positive not long after xmas. His wife remained negative. Fortunately for them they live in a big house so could keep away from each other. He has now tested negative. I don't have all the details but I think he was unwell but not seriously ill. So another anecdotal report of a triple jabbed person not being hit too hard by what may (probably?) have been Omicron.
> 
> My wife and I have managed to remain unscathed throughout.
> 
> In other news, my local chemist has LFTs.



But can you get pregnancy kits?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (16 Jan 2022)

gbb said:


> Is it a good thing ?...is it better to get infected and build (hopefully) some resistance ? But then my mum (91) deserves protecting.
> 
> Its a conundrum, the whole thing.



The problem with “get infected” to develop immunity you don’t know how you personally will handle it. You might be one who ends up seriously ill. 

We all have different immune responses. You’ll see this where one partner gets pretty ill with a respiratory disease. Their partner, who even shares a bed with them, so gets as exposed as is possible. Doesn’t even show a snifter of being ill.


----------



## gbb (16 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The problem with “get infected” to develop immunity you don’t know how you personally will handle it. You might be one who ends up seriously ill.
> 
> We all have different immune responses. You’ll see this where one partner gets pretty ill with a respiratory disease. Their partner, who even shares a bed with them, so gets as exposed as is possible. Doesn’t even show a snifter of being ill.


Quite right of course, another conundrum in itself.


----------



## Bazzer (16 Jan 2022)

Mum seems to have escaped largely unscathed. After testing positive, she had a cough and gets tired, (but she is 91). She's been negative for about a week now and the cough has gone.
By contrast my sister is having a rough time, despite being fully jabbed and boosted. She tested positive a couple of days before Christmas. Still struggling to speak at much above a whisper and totally drained. Based upon her progress since the start of the year, there are doubts as to whether she will be up to travelling in 10 days to an Aunt's funeral.


----------



## Julia9054 (16 Jan 2022)

The problem is that as humans we are programmed to look for patterns. Whilst there are obviously patterns in who dies/gets seriously ill and who gets infected at a population level, our brains are trying to find the patterns from our own little lives and the people we know.


----------



## gbb (20 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The problem with “get infected” to develop immunity you don’t know how you personally will handle it. You might be one who ends up seriously ill.
> 
> We all have different immune responses. You’ll see this where one partner gets pretty ill with a respiratory disease. Their partner, who even shares a bed with them, so gets as exposed as is possible. Doesn’t even show a snifter of being ill.


A sobering thought (and deep down, I knew its a possibility anyway) was the news report of an unvaccinated Czech folk singer (57) who died two days after falling il...after she deliberately exposed herself to family members with the virus.


----------



## Johnno260 (20 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The problem with “get infected” to develop immunity you don’t know how you personally will handle it. You might be one who ends up seriously ill.
> 
> We all have different immune responses. You’ll see this where one partner gets pretty ill with a respiratory disease. Their partner, who even shares a bed with them, so gets as exposed as is possible. Doesn’t even show a snifter of being ill.



There have been some studies from John Hopkins and ZOE saying the protection from infection is very hit and miss, some people actually gain very little if any protection what so ever, the ZOE study said the same as well. 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-difference


----------



## Ajax Bay (20 Jan 2022)

Johnno260 said:


> the ZOE study said the same


Thought I'd just paste in what I think is the relevant text in that (NB Oct 2021, pre-Omicron so %ages now not as good):
"We know that it’s possible to be reinfected with COVID-19 after either vaccination or natural infection. Our data shows that two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine give 71% protection against infection, while two doses of the Pfizer vaccine provide 87% protection. 
"By contrast, an unvaccinated person with a previous COVID infection has only 65% protection against catching it again, clearly shown that if considered separately - vaccines offer greater protection against COVID-19 than natural antibodies
"However, we also found that being double vaccinated on top of having previously had COVID-19 actually provided an extra protection boost. "


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## Johnno260 (20 Jan 2022)

I mean


Ajax Bay said:


> Thought I'd just paste in what I think is the relevant text in that (NB Oct 2021, pre-Omicron so %ages now not as good):
> "We know that it’s possible to be reinfected with COVID-19 after either vaccination or natural infection. Our data shows that two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine give 71% protection against infection, while two doses of the Pfizer vaccine provide 87% protection.
> "By contrast, an unvaccinated person with a previous COVID infection has only 65% protection against catching it again, clearly shown that if considered separately - vaccines offer greater protection against COVID-19 than natural antibodies
> "However, we also found that being double vaccinated on top of having previously had COVID-19 actually provided an extra protection boost. "



it reinforces the message to get vaccinated in my eyes, you have more protection and also an extra boost if you happen to get infected with vaccination.

I saw it hadn't been updated for a little while, hopefully the data will be updated in the near future.


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## C R (20 Jan 2022)

Also something that is often forgotten when talking about building herd immunity. In all cases where there's herd immunity, measles, mumps, polio ..., herd immunity was achieved through mass vaccination. There's no single disease for which herd immunity was achieved by natural means, that is, allowing mass infection with covid will not lead to herd immunity against covid.


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## Venod (22 Jan 2022)

We, Mrs Venod and I both started with a cold yesterday, mine slightly worse, this morning I felt a bit rough so did a test, result positive, so the wife did one, also positive, we have avoided it for 2 years, we are both triple jabbed, looks like more turbo time for me.


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## ColinJ (22 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> I felt a bit rough so did a test, result positive, so the wife did one, also positive, we have avoided it for 2 years, we are both triple jabbed


GWS, both of you. (You _should_ be ok anyway, but it doesn't hurt to wish you well!) 


Venod said:


> looks like more turbo time for me


I'd be inclined to take it easy and let the body get over the infection for a week or so. I've rushed back into exercise a few times while/after being ill and the outcome was not pleasant!


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## cougie uk (22 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> We, Mrs Venod and I both started with a cold yesterday, mine slightly worse, this morning I felt a bit rough so did a test, result positive, so the wife did one, also positive, we have avoided it for 2 years, we are both triple jabbed, looks like more turbo time for me.


Echo the take it easy comment. You've got a virus. Not exercising while you have it won't hurt you. Exercising with a virus can.


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## Johnno260 (22 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> We, Mrs Venod and I both started with a cold yesterday, mine slightly worse, this morning I felt a bit rough so did a test, result positive, so the wife did one, also positive, we have avoided it for 2 years, we are both triple jabbed, looks like more turbo time for me.



Take it easy and rest up don’t over do anything.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2022)

Covid is currently ripping through all 3 floors in MIL's nursing home. SIL works there (not a care worker) and they have had 6 deaths this week - unusually high as it's normally about 1 a week at most. Not all covid, but if you've got someone with serious health issues, any bug is likely to cause them difficulty.


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## Venod (22 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> Covid is currently ripping through all 3 floors in MIL's nursing home.


It's going through the MIL's home also, she has the virus, it's her second infection with it, she is 98.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> It's going through the MIL's home also, she has the virus, it's her second infection with it, she is 98.


MIL is 'only 87' but she's lived 17 years with a pig's valve in her heart, and 15 years since a major stoke (paralysed down one side). She is a right battle axe though... she's yet to catch it, but she struggles breathing as it is with heart failure (fluid on lungs). The down side, is the home is locked down again. No visits.


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## gbb (24 Jan 2022)

Pinged again by the NHS covid app. It will be work, every time it states a workday.
All good though, negative LFT yesterday. 
Thats the third or fourth time I've been pinged.


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2022)

gbb said:


> Pinged again by the NHS covid app. It will be work, every time it states a workday.
> All good though, negative LFT yesterday.
> Thats the third or fourth time I've been pinged.



Given how far bluetooth signals travel, I've never downloaded it - you'll get pinged even without particularly close contact.


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## Milzy (24 Jan 2022)

I’ve all the symptoms of Omicron but my LFT didn’t show up on Saturday. Could it be a false negative or just a seasonal URI?


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> I’ve all the symptoms of Omicron but my LFT didn’t show up on Saturday. Could it be a false negative or just a seasonal URI?



Just test, most likely a cold. We've all had various bugs since December, and all been negative.


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## vickster (24 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> I’ve all the symptoms of Omicron but my LFT didn’t show up on Saturday. Could it be a false negative or just a seasonal URI?


Didn’t you have it already a couple of weeks ago? Did you do the antibody test?


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> We, Mrs Venod and I both started with a cold yesterday, mine slightly worse, this morning I felt a bit rough so did a test, result positive, so the wife did one, also positive, we have avoided it for 2 years, we are both triple jabbed, looks like more turbo time for me.



Stay off the turbo. You can get inflammation around the heart with C19. Best to lay off intense exercise whilst ill.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> MIL is 'only 87' but she's lived 17 years with a pig's valve in her heart, and 15 years since a major stoke (paralysed down one side). She is a right battle axe though... she's yet to catch it, but she struggles breathing as it is with heart failure (fluid on lungs). The down side, is the home is locked down again. No visits.



I would not associate someone’s personality with how they will deal with C19. You don’t fight illness with personality, it’s down to how your immune system responds.


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I would not associate someone’s personality with how they will deal with C19. You don’t fight illness with personality, it’s down to how your immune system responds.



 She and her immune system seems to be a battle axe then !


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## Slick (24 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> I’ve all the symptoms of Omicron but my LFT didn’t show up on Saturday. Could it be a false negative or just a seasonal URI?


I think most people would tell you that you have a cold but I would prefer to err on the side of caution as if I was your manager I would be telling you to go from the symptoms and treat it as Covid. False negatives do happen from time to time.


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## Venod (24 Jan 2022)

Slick said:


> I think most people would tell you that you have a cold


The wife and I both have cold symptoms, we were surprised when we came up positive, the wife had a severe cold about a month ago, she tested negative during that one, I have more severe cold symptoms than the wife this time round.


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## Milzy (24 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Didn’t you have it already a couple of weeks ago? Did you do the antibody test?


No my other half had it. I assumed I’d catch it soon afterwards but it didn’t happen. Feel awful now with a dry cough. No energy. Headache.


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## cougie uk (24 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> No my other half had it. I assumed I’d catch it soon afterwards but it didn’t happen. Feel awful now with a dry cough. No energy. Headache.


Have you just left it with one LFT the other day ? Maybe test again ?
The viral load changes with time and if it's low enough it won't be detected by the LFT.


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## vickster (24 Jan 2022)

Weren’t you isolating as you had a positive test?

LFTs can be negative once have symptoms, get a PCR asap


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## Milzy (24 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Weren’t you isolating as you had a positive test?
> 
> LFTs can be negative once have symptoms, get a PCR asap


I never actually had a positive test. I assumed I would. We had lads at work positive with little symptoms so thought that’s what would inevitably happen.


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## vickster (24 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> I never actually had a positive test. I assumed I would. We had lads at work positive with little symptoms so thought that’s what would inevitably happen.


So you stayed off work regardless?


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## Milzy (24 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> So you stayed off work regardless?


No I went to work.


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## cougie uk (25 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> No I went to work.


You had Corona symptoms but you went to work anyway ?


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## gbb (25 Jan 2022)

More cases at work and its beginning to effect the companies ability to supply. The supply industry to the supermarkets tend to run very lean indeed so 'casualties' quickly have a big impact (we still supply but its getting harder for teams to work effectively and efficiently)
As a result, we (core teams, maintenance, management and supervision and some key departments) are required to LFT daily. Im happy to comply, i was doing it quite regularly anyway.
Ironically, we're not seeing problems some factories had when covid 19 first broke out, mass infections, shutdowns etc. Despite my frequent displeasure at peoples behaviour at work, measures put in place seem to be working.


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## Bazzer (25 Jan 2022)

Despite the Government announcement of restrictions being lifted, certainly at work restrictions are still in place.
Banks of workstations still have "safe space" desks in between useable desks and we were told existing arrangements, i.e. entry to the workplace by booking only, will remain. - At least for the time being.
Also continuing is the (unchecked) requirement to have an LFT before entering the building.


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## Milzy (25 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> You had Corona symptoms but you went to work anyway ?


No I was kind of bragging I was in for a free week off. Then a few weeks later I actually got symptoms but passed LFT’s. My manager said still don’t come in so I didn’t. Been watching Ozark & after life. I reckon I got the old school normal flu which seems to have vanished. I’m so Indie, same symptoms but pass the test. How about that?


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## vickster (25 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> No I was kind of bragging I was in for a free week off. Then a few weeks later I actually got symptoms but passed LFT’s. My manager said still don’t come in so I didn’t. Been watching Ozark & after life. I reckon I got the old school normal flu which seems to have vanished. I’m so Indie, same symptoms but pass the test. How about that?


Why have you not had a PCR though given you have symptoms? Negative LFT can certainly be followed by positive PCR once symptomatic


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## Milzy (26 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Why have you not had a PCR though given you have symptoms? Negative LFT can certainly be followed by positive PCR once symptomatic


Because you don’t have to now.


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## vickster (26 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> Because you don’t have to now.


No, you are still meant to if symptomatic 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/get-tested-for-coronavirus/

and isn’t your wife an HCP so better to know surely?


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## Andy in Germany (26 Jan 2022)

It's been getting a bit confusing here: the various authorities are trying to balance individual freedom with what the scientists recommend, so the restrictions are based on ICU or hospital patient numbers. 
Until yesterday we had "2G" rules, which meant customers had to be vaccinated or recovering from C-19. non-vaccinated people couldn't come into the shop.
Yesterday a state court said small businesses can allow non-vaccinated people who have been tested within 24h, so from today we're doing that. Cafes and large events are still on "2G" so people need to be vaccinated.
Customers are supposed to have an FFP-2 mask but staff could wear a medical mask because we have to wear a mask for longer, and we'd have to take a 20 minute break every hour and a half with an FFP-2 mask.
Meanwhile staff could always be un-vaccinated as long as they were tested daily; we're allowed to run the tests and I'm often on test duty which in one shop takes a chunk out of my day.
Currently the infection numbers are climbing but the death rate is dropping, and apparently there's another meeting today so there may be more changes soon...


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## Milzy (26 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> No, you are still meant to if symptomatic
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/get-tested-for-coronavirus/
> 
> and isn’t your wife an HCP so better to know surely?


The LFT came positive after a few tries. Same as my wife they kept showing negative then eventually positive. My throat is raw.


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## vickster (26 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> The LFT came positive after a few tries. Same as my wife they kept showing negative then eventually positive. My throat is raw.


You can still get a PCR. If that’s positive, you can offer to do antibody testing


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## midlife (26 Jan 2022)

Positive LFT does not need a PCR to confirm at the moment, with so much covid about the false positive rate is small. I think its in the government info on their website.


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## Milzy (26 Jan 2022)

Now there’s this stealth version of Omicron. People are laughing & taking the pee but even I can see a variant happening that won’t show up on the tests but with the symptoms.


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## fossyant (26 Jan 2022)

MIL (Nursing Home) back on another 2 week lockdown - the other one hadn't been quite lifted - more cases. It's her birthday today. MrsF and one of her sisters managed a window visit to her room, thank god it's on the ground floor. She was 'needing' more bird feeders and supplies.

She's been crapping it as one of her carers started a bit poorly a week or so ago, and has 'apparently' ended up on a ventilator even being triple jabbed - true or not, MIL is worried she'd be a gonner if it got her !


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## Rusty Nails (26 Jan 2022)

Milzy said:


> Now there’s this stealth version of Omicron. People are laughing & taking the pee but even I can see a variant happening that won’t show up on the tests but with the symptoms.


Is this some new variant you have heard of or just a rather strange response to the comments on here about negative tests?

Edit: Just read online about "stealth" omicron.


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## classic33 (26 Jan 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Is this some new variant you have heard of or just a rather strange response to the comments on here about negative tests?


First identified last month, called BA.2.
Said to be harder to track using the present PCR test.


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## LarryDuff (30 Jan 2022)

Just tested +ve this evening. Bummer!


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## Slick (30 Jan 2022)

LarryDuff said:


> Just tested +ve this evening. Bummer!


Indeed. Hopefully it will pass quickly.


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## LarryDuff (30 Jan 2022)

Slick said:


> Indeed. Hopefully it will pass quickly.


Thanks


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2022)

LarryDuff said:


> Just tested +ve this evening. Bummer!



May the symptoms be mild and recovery full


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## Venod (31 Jan 2022)

LarryDuff said:


> Just tested +ve this evening. Bummer!



Here's wishing you a quick recovery, last day of isolation here, still feel I have a touch of a cold, tested after day five and onwards, no negative tests at all so no early exit from isolation.


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## LarryDuff (31 Jan 2022)

Venod said:


> Here's wishing you a quick recovery, last day of isolation here, still feel I have a touch of a cold, tested after day five and onwards, no negative tests at all so no early exit from isolation.


Went out yesterday for a wee 20 miler and felt absolutely fine. Mid afternoon I started to feel teally shivery and just couldn't get warm


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## Dogtrousers (31 Jan 2022)

LarryDuff said:


> Went out yesterday for a wee 20 miler and felt absolutely fine. Mid afternoon I started to feel teally shivery and just couldn't get warm


My mystery illness that I had very early in the pandemic before widespread testing, which may or may not have been Covid featured spells like that.
Hope you feel better soon.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Feb 2022)

As of today we have moved from "3G" rules ("Genesen, Geimpft, Getestet", or "Recovering, Vaccinated or Tested") on the basis that although Omnicron is spreading, hospital admissions and deaths are much lower. 

This means we no longer have to ask all our customers for their vaccination or test certificates and ID card when they come into the shop. which was frankly getting a little stale.


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## Johnno260 (9 Feb 2022)

I just had to return my holter monitor and give bloods, they are concerned as I have had palpitations and other issues since my Covid infection since November.

I had to be tested for Pro-BNP levels (that sounds wrong on many levels) I have been concerned as we keep hearing how behind the NHS is but this was all rushed through very quickly.


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## fossyant (9 Feb 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> As of today we have moved from "3G" rules ("Genesen, Geimpft, Getestet", or "Recovering, Vaccinated or Tested") on the basis that although Omnicron is spreading, hospital admissions and deaths are much lower.
> 
> This means we no longer have to ask all our customers for their vaccination or test certificates and ID card when they come into the shop. which was frankly getting a little stale.



Blimey, that's strict !


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## fossyant (9 Feb 2022)

Four more infections on MIL's Nursing Home Floor. We're assuming extended lockdown again - four weeks already with no visits. This is just going to run and run for those in care. Despite 'rules' being 'relaxed' the care home rules are different, rightly so as even 'mild' covid can be a killer for very vulnerable people. It's just going to keep happening as 'residents' come in from hospitals.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Blimey, that's strict !



It was stricter at one point: only recovering and vaccinated people could come in. In restaurants it's still at that level. 

The payoff is that we don't then have to have a general Lockdown.


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## fossyant (9 Feb 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> It was stricter at one point: only recovering and vaccinated people could come in. In restaurants it's still at that level.
> 
> The payoff is that we don't then have to have a general Lockdown.



Are your anti-vax/anti vax passport lot still as vocal as ours ? We had a massive protest in Manchester at weekend. Most of us are like, there are no restrictions, you don't need a vax passport - you are all a little late now !


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## MontyVeda (9 Feb 2022)

Yesterday I got a blocked/runny nose... took at test and it was negative, so i went to work as normal...

only to discover that three of the people I'd worked with yesterday are all now isolating 

Took another test today which to me still looks negative, however a few seconds after I put the drops on the test strip, the entire window went red and quickly faded to white, leaving a very clear negative result behind. The same happened yesterday and I thought nothing of it until i learned some of my co-workers are positive.

Here's a snap of it looking pinkish:







There's nothing in the instructions about the whole window briefly going red, and I can't find anything online either.
After 30 mints I've got a clear white background and a clear red line alongside 'C' ...which to me says I don't have Covid and do have a blocked/runny nose... which is a tad annoying.


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## newfhouse (9 Feb 2022)

Mine always look like that at first. I assume it’s normal as I’ve done dozens now.


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## vickster (9 Feb 2022)

That’s why you have to wait 15-30 mins for it to ‘cook’

Maybe the runny bunged up nose is just a good old cold (or even an allergy)


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## Johnno260 (9 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> Yesterday I got a blocked/runny nose... took at test and it was negative, so i went to work as normal...
> 
> only to discover that three of the people I'd worked with yesterday are all now isolating
> 
> ...



wait for the time specified in that kit then look that's all that matters.

looking after many hours and seeing a line or other issues isn't valid either as the test has become contaminated with what ever is around it.


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## MontyVeda (9 Feb 2022)

vickster said:


> That’s why you have to wait 15-30 mins for it to ‘cook’
> 
> Maybe the runny bunged up nose is just a good old cold (or even an allergy)


I presume it is just a cold. (or even an allergy*)
*I was absolutely fine until i tried a nasal inhaler from Poundland, then an hour or two later I'm completely bunged up!

However, considering the tests i did before xmas didn't go red first, and i have positive co-workers... there's no harm in asking.


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## Johnno260 (9 Feb 2022)

It's cold season but if you're concerned just do daily LFT, you could also book a PCR but you may want to wait and see what the LFT throw up.


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## fossyant (9 Feb 2022)

Our tests go a slight pink colour as the fluid moves up. You'll test positive quickly though - the lines show up immediately from what I've heard. Carry on as normal unless it's positive.


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## MontyVeda (9 Feb 2022)

Johnno260 said:


> It's cold season but* if you're concerned just do daily LFT*, you could also book a PCR but you may want to *wait and see what the LFT throw up*.


That's great advice, thanks 
[/sarcasm]


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## Johnno260 (9 Feb 2022)

It's still easy to get LFT my wife booked some online the other day and they turned up a day later.

If you're able to use some, we swear by Vicks first defence nasal sprays, last few times I have had an inkling of a cold I used that and it stopped it in it's tracks.


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## postman (9 Feb 2022)

Our daughter caught it.One day afyer going out with us for a celebration meal.I gave her many hugs and kisses but did not catch it.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> Yesterday I got a blocked/runny nose... took at test and it was negative, so i went to work as normal...
> 
> only to discover that three of the people I'd worked with yesterday are all now isolating
> 
> ...



Our tests look different but they sometimes go red then fade as well. I've done dozens for clients and it's quite common, but they're still considered negative unless there are two lines.


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## Andy in Germany (9 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Are your anti-vax/anti vax passport lot still as vocal as ours ? We had a massive protest in Manchester at weekend. Most of us are like, there are no restrictions, you don't need a vax passport - you are all a little late now !



Still about certainly, and occasionally someone would get stroppy with us, as if we were making the rules. I had a small number happily show us the passport on their smart phone, but then get very upset when we asked for an ID, which makes me think the passport was for someone else.


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## vickster (9 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> I presume it is just a cold. (or even an allergy*)
> *I was absolutely fine until i tried a nasal inhaler from Poundland, then an hour or two later I'm completely bunged up!
> 
> However, considering the tests i did before xmas didn't go red first, and i have positive co-workers... there's no harm in asking.


Nasal only or nose and throat. Apparently the former are a bit less reliable at picking up omicron so do a throat one too. If symptoms but negative LFT, you can get a PCR done 

(And avoid cheap sprays from Poundland. Olbas sticks good if blocked up)


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## Milkfloat (9 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Our tests go a slight pink colour as the fluid moves up. You'll test positive quickly though - the lines show up immediately from what I've heard. Carry on as normal unless it's positive.


I tested positive yesterday, positive line turned red the moment the fluid got to it. The line is still red now. I had symptoms on Sunday night and Monday but tested negative, luckily I work from home.


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## lazybloke (9 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Our tests go a slight pink colour as the fluid moves up. You'll test positive quickly though - the lines show up immediately from what I've heard. Carry on as normal unless it's positive.


Sorry to disagree. Two tests in our household last November initially looked negative, but after 15-20 minutes went faintly positive.


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## classic33 (9 Feb 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Sorry to disagree. Two tests in our household last November initially looked negative, but after 15-20 minutes went faintly positive.


Isn't that why they insist/state you must wait the full 30 minutes, before saying it's a negative test.


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## albal (9 Feb 2022)

Tested positive this morning. Dilemma is my father's funeral is February 16th. I believe I am allowed to attend whilst isolating (provided I am still positive). The service after the crematorium is another matter.


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## MontyVeda (9 Feb 2022)

Johnno260 said:


> Sorry to disagree. Two tests in our household last November initially looked negative, but after 15-20 minutes went faintly positive.


I think we all know how to do a test and how long to wait


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## classic33 (9 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> I think we all know how to do a test and how long to wait


Think your link is on the blink!


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## Dogtrousers (9 Feb 2022)

Been feeling a bit ropey, so took a test. Negative. Hardly surprising as being "a bit ropey" isn't a recognised Covid symptom.


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## Time Waster (10 Feb 2022)

Don't have to show any symptoms with covid. I was symptoms free but the only one in the household without symptoms and positive test result. I took a test, negative but my partner tried to persuade me of an invisibleline. Next day test two because I was going back to work after 2 days off looking after son and partner. I got a faint test line. By 20 minutes very, very faint indeed. 30 minutes a bit stronger line, then it kept getting darker.

Point being I'm on my 6th day off positive tests and no symptoms other than those I had before which were due to allergies. I stopped taking antihistamines so have allergy systems for a few months since stopping.

It's all going to be irrelevant soon. Will there be any point testing once they take away the requirement to isolate after a positive test? Unless you are honest and isolate despite not needing to. Will employers be supportive of people isolating when not legally required?


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Feb 2022)

Time Waster said:


> It's all going to be irrelevant soon. Will there be any point testing once they take away the requirement to isolate after a positive test? Unless you are honest and isolate despite not needing to. Will employers be supportive of people isolating when not legally required?



It will depend on your employer once something is no longer a legal requirement. At some point LFTs for C19 will no longer be available. Taking sick leave when sick is still a thing though.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Feb 2022)

On that note I’ve ordered another pack of LFT.


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## fossyant (10 Feb 2022)

Time Waster said:


> It's all going to be irrelevant soon. Will there be any point testing once they take away the requirement to isolate after a positive test? Unless you are honest and isolate despite not needing to. Will employers be supportive of people isolating when not legally required?



This is going to be a big question. At the moment, my employer has said WFH if you are feeling unwell - covid or not, as covid can present as cold symptoms before you test positive. Come 1st March, who knows, but I suspect they will say the same, just to keep sickness levels as low as possible - but that said, folk will be coming in being asymptomatic as the need for testing basically goes 1st March. You won't be testing just for the sake of it !


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## lazybloke (11 Feb 2022)

classic33 said:


> Isn't that why they insist/state you must wait the full 30 minutes, before saying it's a negative test.


Kinda my point - someone thought a positive result would be near instant. It isn't always.



MontyVeda said:


> I think we all know how to do a test and how long to wait


FFS. See above


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## gbb (18 Feb 2022)

Despite being a food production facility, our employers have just dropped compulsory face mask wearing and daily LF testing for key staff yesterday
Its something ive complained long and hard about, how the vast majority of our workers dont or wont comply...or at least are hapharzard in the mask wearing.
But, its entirely voluntary now and tbh, i think its time to get on . Its lovely in a way, no facial or breathing restrictions, its actually quite liberating.
Contradictory ?...i believe in following rules as much as reasonably possible, it used to irk me how many just couldnt be bothered and a company that fails to enforce, so you end up mask wearing in a sea of non wearers. But now its dropped, ive joined the throng 

Our daily number of reported covid cases tends to be anywhere between 6 and 12, startlingly low considering the numbers and proximity of people here.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2022)

I believe LFT's are no longer free ? We've all collected a couple of packs from reception at work before this. We've got maybe 4-5 packs at the moment, but MrsF still has to do two LFT's before visiting her mum in a Nursing home, so these will be saved for that use. I'm expecting my employer to drop the advice about LFT's now it's being charged for, unless they continue to provide them for free.

I'm no longer mask wearing, but continuing using the hand sanitiser, especially on entering the supermarket ! - splosh a load in my hand, and wipe down the trolly/basket - generally a good idea anyway as folk are dirty oiks !


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Feb 2022)

LFTs are still free.


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## vickster (18 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> I believe LFT's are no longer free ? We've all collected a couple of packs from reception at work before this. We've got maybe 4-5 packs at the moment, but MrsF still has to do two LFT's before visiting her mum in a Nursing home, so these will be saved for that use. I'm expecting my employer to drop the advice about LFT's now it's being charged for, unless they continue to provide them for free.
> 
> I'm no longer mask wearing, but continuing using the hand sanitiser, especially on entering the supermarket ! - splosh a load in my hand, and wipe down the trolly/basket - generally a good idea anyway as folk are dirty oiks !


Still free and available online (I got some this week)


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> LFTs are still free.


This has sparked it

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-supply-free-covid-tests-universities-england


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> This has sparked it
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-supply-free-covid-tests-universities-england



Mass distribution to universities. You can still get LFTs for free for personal use.


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## PK99 (18 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> *I'm no longer mask wearin*g, but continuing *using the hand sanitiser, especially on entering the supermarket* ! - splosh a load in my hand, and wipe down the trolly/basket - generally a good idea anyway as folk are dirty oiks !



Surely a bit Rump over Apex?

Fomite transmission was shown to be very low-risk over a year ago - Airborne transmission remains significant.


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## shep (18 Feb 2022)

I have to admit I don't even give it a second thought, had all the jabs, worked throughout and haven't needed to test once. 

Wore a mask when the rules/law required it but even then rarely went into shops unless absolutely necessary.


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## Slick (18 Feb 2022)

gbb said:


> Despite being a food production facility, our employers have just dropped compulsory face mask wearing and daily LF testing for key staff yesterday
> Its something ive complained long and hard about, how the vast majority of our workers dont or wont comply...or at least are hapharzard in the mask wearing.
> But, its entirely voluntary now and tbh, i think its time to get on . Its lovely in a way, no facial or breathing restrictions, its actually quite liberating.
> Contradictory ?...i believe in following rules as much as reasonably possible, it used to irk me how many just couldnt be bothered and a company that fails to enforce, so you end up mask wearing in a sea of non wearers. But now its dropped, ive joined the throng
> ...


I'm pretty much in the same boat, and enforced the rules at work fairly rigidly but the time has definitely come to move on.


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## MrGrumpy (8 Mar 2022)

The time has come to move on lol . Folk of with covid right left and centre . It’s worse now than it’s been in the pandemic from my view point , only a matter of time before we all get it or have natural immunity . Only good thing so far seems to be people aren’t quite so unwell. Just a cold type thing .


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## SpokeyDokey (8 Mar 2022)

This has almost slid off my radar screen with the war and inflation news monopolising the media. 

Same for a few other people I have spoken to.


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## MrGrumpy (8 Mar 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> This has almost slid off my radar screen with the war and inflation news monopolising the media.
> 
> Same for a few other people I have spoken to.


Not off my radar for someone who tries to plan staffing and workload concurrently :-/


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## C R (8 Mar 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> This has almost slid off my radar screen with the war and inflation news monopolising the media.
> 
> Same for a few other people I have spoken to.


It is still very much around us. We had plans for last weekend which had to be cancelled because our friend's son tested positive, and yesterday our son's school told us one of his friends had tested positive, so we'll be testing our son for the next few days to be on the safe side.


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## Flick of the Elbow (8 Mar 2022)

Still very worrying times. Rates across Scotland are at their highest since Jan, ONS reports 1 in 19 last week, showing no sign of slowing. And presumably this will only get worse in 2 weeks time when the mask law is lifted.


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## Ajax Bay (8 Mar 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> presumably this will only get worse in 2 weeks time when the mask law is lifted.


Or will it? Has causation (or even correlation) been demonstrated between mask wearing (as opposed to social mixing restrictions) and a drop in infections (as estimated by ONS)? Has Scotland's infection rate been kept down by maintaining its masking regime? Let's come back to this next month and see what 'happens'.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/c...fection-survey-headline-results-4-march-2022/


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## MrGrumpy (8 Mar 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Or will it? Has causation (or even correlation) been demonstrated between mask wearing (as opposed to social mixing restrictions) and a drop in infections (as estimated by ONS)? Has Scotland's infection rate been kept down by maintaining its masking regime? Let's come back to this next month and see what 'happens'.
> https://www.gov.scot/publications/c...fection-survey-headline-results-4-march-2022/
> View attachment 634319



It has crossed my mind the current rise in rates up here is more to do with restrictions remaining. It’s already run ride down south , we are just catching up.


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## Flick of the Elbow (8 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> It has crossed my mind the current rise in rates up here is more to do with restrictions remaining. It’s already run ride down south , we are just catching up.


These graphs from yesterday show all the English regions showing a slight uptick in the last week, it may be that they are about to follow the same rise that we’re already getting.


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## Slick (9 Mar 2022)

I still think its time to move on, it hasn't disappeared by a long chalk but its definitely a different animal than it was pre vaccine. I plan staffing levels at work, and yes it has been a nightmare for the longest time, but I'm really looking forward to the 21st when Scotland finally ditch the masks as the current part time mask wearing is frankly ludicrous. We have had 8 cases at work this week and previously that would have shut us down as we would have been required to notify the local health protection team. All we had to do this week was get those directly affected away and identify the vaccine status of the remainder to see who goes and who stays. Not ideal but still an improvement on previous requirements.


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## cougie uk (10 Mar 2022)

Never known so many people to have it round here in the North West. Luckily nobody seriously ill but heavy cold stylee. Still not had it yet and not keen on getting it.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Mar 2022)

I've just had my most socially active week for ages. Years even. Went to some exhibitions at the weekend, went walking-boot shopping, attended a pub evening, visited friends, went in to the office. All in London. I'm one of the (sizeable) minority still masking up on public transport and indoor public areas (although I didn't at the pub, which was probably the highest risk).

OK so far, knock on wood, cross fingers.


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## Andy in Germany (10 Mar 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Never known so many people to have it round here in the North West. Luckily nobody seriously ill but heavy cold stylee. Still not had it yet and not keen on getting it.



This worries me a little too; people assume it's "like a cold" well, if I have a cold it can turn serious so keep away.

Thankfully we are still wearing masks and testing regularly.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Mar 2022)




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## shep (10 Mar 2022)

I have to admit Covid doesn't really feature at all in my life now.

All restrictions are gone and I rarely even think about it.


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## Johnno260 (14 Mar 2022)

I see things are leveling off:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
Hopefully we see a more downward trend soon.


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## fossyant (14 Mar 2022)

shep said:


> I have to admit Covid doesn't really feature at all in my life now.
> 
> All restrictions are gone and I rarely even think about it.



Not really thinking about it here much - I'm in the office twice a week, been to the pub, out for meals etc. 

Although...

We've been to two Christenings the last two weekends and I've been a bit careful - i.e. keeping distance from the snotty kids, as a 'cold' is the last thing I want at the moment - on a roll with cycling and walking the last two months, despite the weather' and I'm not being off the bike for a week or so with a 'bug'. 

Have a cuddle of the baby - erm nope, it's been passed round 80 people already and you and baby were really poorly last week. No ta. Niece is at 'baby clubs' every day (no joke) - no wonder they have picked up stuff. I've been there and caught the germs, not doing it now.


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## shep (14 Mar 2022)

fossyant said:


> Not really thinking about it here much - I'm in the office twice a week, been to the pub, out for meals etc.
> 
> Although...
> 
> ...


My Daughter works with 2-4 Yr olds and always has a sniffle or cough so theres no getting away from it in our house.


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## Colin Grigson (21 Mar 2022)

My wife, two children and I were diagnosed positive on Friday via PCR test. So far heavy cold symptoms seem to be the predominant reaction from all of us - already the children are recovering quicker than my wife and I - the quarantine (5 days minimum) is inconvenient but a necessary evil I suppose


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## CanucksTraveller (22 Mar 2022)

It ripped through my daughter's school last week with 35 positive cases in one year group, my daughter tested positive last Thursday, and then lo and behold, I tested positive on Saturday as I prepared for a work trip to Rome. It's the first time I've had it. 

I've got different symptoms to my daughter, she mainly had an awful cough for about 5 days, and she was very lethargic for her first two days. I've had no cough at all really. My symptoms have mainly been joint and back pain, sneezing, headaches and a high temperature, which seem to align with Omicron.


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## C R (22 Mar 2022)

Youngest tested positive Monday last week. Seventh or eighth in his class. Still testing positive, but the line is getting fainter.

He had a temperature for the first couple of days, and cold symptoms, but nothing major. 

The rest of us seem to have got away with it.


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## Alex321 (22 Mar 2022)

Bunch of people from our office down with it after an "event" in the office last Wednesday. I'd have been at that if I hadn't smashed my wrist the previous Friday, and may well have been one of those catching it.


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## 13 rider (22 Mar 2022)

Having worked all the way through the pandemic including working in people's houses ,I was amazed to have never caught it . However it caught up with me yesterday what I thought was the start of a cold is Covid so off work . Feel ok but my legs and knees ache


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## vickster (22 Mar 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Bunch of people from our office down with it after an "event" in the office last Wednesday. I'd have been at that if I hadn't smashed my wrist the previous Friday, and may well have been one of those catching it.


I'd rather have Covid than a smashed wrist!


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## C R (22 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> I'd rather have Covid than a smashed wrist!


I suppose it depends on risk factors. A smashed wrist is a "known entity". Covid on the other hand can throw a curve ball here and there.


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## vickster (22 Mar 2022)

C R said:


> I suppose it depends on risk factors. A smashed wrist is a "known entity". Covid on the other hand can throw a curve ball here and there.


Having had Covid and a lot of joint injuries and issues (recovery is not always predictable and a bad injury or break could well lead to issues down the line), I'd far rather have Covid, but yes it can be an unknown (albeit less so if fully vaxed and not clinically vulnerable)


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## MrGrumpy (22 Mar 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Bunch of people from our office down with it after an "event" in the office last Wednesday. I'd have been at that if I hadn't smashed my wrist the previous Friday, and may well have been one of those catching it.


Funny there was an event in my office a week past Thursday. I sat well at the back whilst the brown nosers did their thing ! Result many off with Covid !


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## Alex321 (22 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> I'd rather have Covid than a smashed wrist!


On balance, I think I would too, being triple vaxed, it probably wouldn't have been too serious for me, even at age 63.


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## Julia9054 (22 Mar 2022)

I know we don’t have “rules” any more, but if you are still testing positive on lft at or after 10 days, can you be released back into the wild or should you still self isolate? This is assuming you are not still ill


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2022)

Yes but the % protection from serious illness provided by that Pfizer booster in December is waning. Almost worth 'getting on with it' as ('immunity') protection post-infection has now been shown as much stronger, but the powers that be can't formally/ethically adopt that policy.
Not a straightforward 'choice', even if it is a practical choice.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Mar 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I know we don’t have “rules” any more, but if you are still testing positive on lft at or after 10 days, can you be released back into the wild or should you still self isolate? This is assuming you are not still ill


Back into the wild ! Had one person last week who was still positive day 10. Had to come back or it was sick !


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## Julia9054 (22 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Back into the wild ! Had one person last week who was still positive day 10. Had to come back or it was sick !


I have a bored husband with a stubbornly persistent positive lft drifting around the house like a grumpy black cloud. It is day 10 today. Both him - and indeed me - would like him to go back to work!


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## PK99 (22 Mar 2022)

13 rider said:


> . Feel ok but my legs and knees ache



That's not Covid - it's age!


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## byegad (22 Mar 2022)

Lady Byegad and I are back in Purdah as the local infection rate climbs steeply. Neither of us can really risk catching it, me with Asthma, L.B. with a more complex lung issue. To be honest we are doing well, having been up onto Blakey Ridge for a picnic today and did a bit of birding last week.

However, we really miss seeing our three grandchildren, it's now over two years since a fase to face meeting with them.


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## Slick (22 Mar 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I have a bored husband with a stubbornly persistent positive lft drifting around the house like a grumpy black cloud. It is day 10 today. Both him - and indeed me - would like him to go back to work!


Probably just a Scottish thing but up here it depends on symptoms and vaccination status. You can't go out with a high temperature for example but you can if its just a cough.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Mar 2022)

Slick said:


> Probably just a Scottish thing but up here it depends on symptoms and vaccination status. You can't go out with a high temperature for example but you can if its just a cough.



Still the same here: if you have a positive test you need two negative tests before you can go out again, and masks are still mandatory.


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## Julia9054 (22 Mar 2022)

His work didn’t have a policy on whether staff could go back if they were still testing positive after 10 days but after a day of various bosses consulting each other, they just rung him to say he can go back in tomorrow (day 11). He has a bit of a cough if he talks too much and still can’t taste or smell anything but otherwise feels ok.


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## lazybloke (23 Mar 2022)

I've had a sore throat and a killer headache for the last 20 hours, the kind where running your fingers through your hair makes you wince.
Paracetamol and ibuprofen aren't touching it.

Feels like covid again but my LF was negative.
Have cancelled work trips and will retest in the morning.


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## Cathryn (27 Mar 2022)

I tested positive on Friday! I feel very lucky as so far I just feel like I’ve had a cold. Congested, snotty, mild cough. Today I realized I had lost my sense of smell entirely! 

I’m so bored though!


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## midlife (27 Mar 2022)

Here's wishing you a good recovery . Tested negative Friday morning and guess I will test negative tomorrow morning before work. I was the only clinician scheduled to work last Friday in our place due to positive staff. Let's see what tomorrow brings......


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## Cathryn (27 Mar 2022)

midlife said:


> Here's wishing you a good recovery . Tested negative Friday morning and guess I will test negative tomorrow morning before work. I was the only clinician scheduled to work last Friday in our place due to positive staff. Let's see what tomorrow brings......


Good luck.


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## slowmotion (27 Mar 2022)

Our daughter came back from a conference in Berlin on Thursday night, stayed the night at home, and went back to her flat the next day. She then phoned us to say that she had just tested positive for The Plague. She's a bit pissed off, not feeling too bad, mainly bored sideways, but thankfully OK so far.


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## Ajax Bay (28 Mar 2022)

Presumably once people run out of LFTs, they'll no longer be able to share "I/my daughter tested positive" unless they pay for tests or need to go to hospital and and are automatically tested, or where (air) travel to specific countries require a 'paid for' test.
I appreciate that the most vulnerable (eg like my over 80 mother) will still receive tests they can use, on demand.
I don't plan to test before visiting her. If I have sniffles, headaches or other symptoms of illness, I'll not visit. This is the same regime I have followed for a decade. Do responsible people really get up and close with vulnerable friends/relatives when they are a bit ill (symptoms)?
https://theconversation.com/caught-...-do-when-self-isolation-isnt-mandatory-179441


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## alicat (28 Mar 2022)

Just tried to order a box of LFTs before they start charging and got a blunt 
'Sorry, there are no more home delivery slots for these tests right now'.​


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2022)

alicat said:


> Just tried to order a box of LFTs before they start charging and got a blunt
> 'Sorry, there are no more home delivery slots for these tests right now'.​



Been like that past 3 days. Either it’s a deliberate policy to stop offering them a week early or masses of us are trying to order a pack whilst you still can.

As I’m seeing Covid now catch friends who avoided it so far, it’s still very much circulating.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2022)

We've just cancelled a planned trip. We were going to visit some friends and go to their village quiz night. But a lot of villagers have it, so we (and our friends) have decided quiz night in the village hall is a no no.


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## MrGrumpy (28 Mar 2022)

Eldest tested + on Friday , fairly mild so far. Headache , aches and pains , blocked nose. Sore throat developed yesterday. Doing our best to isolate him in the house . However who knows !


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Doing our best to isolate him in the house . However who knows !



He is on his playstation or x-box in his bedroom?


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## PK99 (28 Mar 2022)

Unbidden and unrequested, I have just received from the NHS two boxes of Lateral Flow test kits - I'm on the Extremely Vulnerable list.

My experience of the HNS through the pandemic, and continuing, has been seamless and faultless.


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## Andy in Germany (28 Mar 2022)

We still have mandatory masks in trains here, and today I saw a passenger verbally abuse the conductor when told to put one on, by calling him a "N*zi" and threatening to lay a complaint against him before he was made to leave the train.

I left my name and phone number with the conductor in case the passenger made any damfool complaints.


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## MrGrumpy (28 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> He is on his playstation or x-box in his bedroom?


He’s 24 so neither ! Isolating is doing his nut in ! Job interview this week as well


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## DCLane (29 Mar 2022)

My colleagues are dropping like flies; we've had at least two off a week in the past few weeks. Another's gone down today. I've been covering classes where I can in order to maintain delivery but if numbers increase we won't be able to.

Now there's no more free tests students aren't testing as much as they did: they were really good at doing so. It means they, and us, are getting Covid.


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## Dogtrousers (29 Mar 2022)

I was feeling awful yesterday, but not quite Corona symptoms. Having been on holiday last week - and been exposed to flights and airports - I decided to do a test. Negative. Went to bed early yesterday and had a mega sleep and feel OK now.


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## Cathryn (29 Mar 2022)

The negative test I assumed I would get on day 5 (today) was…not negative! 

Grrrrr


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## Colin Grigson (29 Mar 2022)

Having my whole family here suffering with CoviD last week, my elderly mother (82) now has it too … not from us I add (we live 3000km away). She seems to be coping well so far (a couple of days in) but my older brother (58) who lives with her has been hit hard it seems, he’s laying in bed feeling very sorry for himself and with completely different symptoms to my mum - very strange this latest round of CoviD


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## C R (29 Mar 2022)

Cathryn said:


> The negative test I assumed I would get on day 5 (today) was…not negative!
> 
> Grrrrr


Our son's lfd test was positive until 9 days after his first positive.


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## fossyant (29 Mar 2022)

DCLane said:


> My colleagues are dropping like flies; we've had at least two off a week in the past few weeks. Another's gone down today. I've been covering classes where I can in order to maintain delivery but if numbers increase we won't be able to.
> 
> Now there's no more free tests students aren't testing as much as they did: they were really good at doing so. It means they, and us, are getting Covid.



Same here. Spoke to a Department Head earlier. One Prof off with flu, then covid. Teaching cover needed (yes this Prof teaches too, which is rare).


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2022)

Cathryn said:


> The negative test I assumed I would get on day 5 (today) was…not negative!
> 
> Grrrrr



Why would it go negative on day 5?


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## Julia9054 (29 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Why would it go negative on day 5?


Because the government dangled the carrot of negative on day five and on day 6 and you can be released back into the wild. It gets hopes up.
Al was still testing positive on day 11.


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## CanucksTraveller (29 Mar 2022)

Cathryn said:


> The negative test I assumed I would get on day 5 (today) was…not negative!
> 
> Grrrrr





C R said:


> Our son's lfd test was positive until 9 days after his first positive.


Yep, I was assuming I'd be clear around day 6 or 7, but I'm now on day 10 and I've only just had my first negative LFT result since falling ill last weekend but one. 

AND I still have cold like symptoms, sneezing and a runny nose, headaches, regular dizziness. It's not being as quick to shift as I expected it would be.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Because the government dangled the carrot of negative on day five and on day 6 and you can be released back into the wild. It gets hopes up.
> Al was still testing positive on day 11.



You missed out the “if negative on…”. The time it takes to clear isn’t a fixed duration. Depends how good your immune system is etc.


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## Cathryn (29 Mar 2022)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Yep, I was assuming I'd be clear around day 6 or 7, but I'm now on day 10 and I've only just had my first negative LFT result since falling ill last weekend but one.
> 
> AND I still have cold like symptoms, sneezing and a runny nose, headaches, regular dizziness. It's not being as quick to shift as I expected it would be.



Grrrrr... I'm sorry. This is rubbish.


----------



## kingrollo (29 Mar 2022)

Due to go on holiday tommorow.

Prepping a bike to sell - sprays, touch of paint - my nose felt irritated - give a good blow - clear mucus - just allergy - but then noticed a bit of headache.

Did a test just to be sure - it wasn't covid. Wallop positive - great big thick red line - couldnt believe it - 2 more tests - fainter lines but still positive. 

Holiday cancelled.

Now have streaming cold - slight chills - but not feeling that bad (pre covid would still ride bike in this condition).

I'm guessing I'm 3 days in - also guessing the next 3 will be the worst ????

Any tips about coping ???


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

I'm trying to work out a way of getting a Covid Pass for foreign travel without having to buy a smart phone.
It's making me ill.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> I'm trying to work out a way of getting a Covid Pass for foreign travel without having to buy a smart phone.
> It's making me ill.


Are they still valid?

If they are, have you tried phoning 119 and getting one from them.


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Are they still valid?
> 
> If they are, have you tried phoning 119 and getting one from them.


Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.


Someone at the local library, yesterday, was getting the paperwork for a trip to Thailand printed off. 
Return was covered by a lateral flow test, before boarding the plane coming back and another when arrives back.
Twenty-two sheets in total.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

CanucksTraveller said:


> AND I still have cold like symptoms, sneezing and a runny nose, headaches, regular dizziness. It's not being as quick to shift as I expected it would be.


Aargh - that's how I have been feeling... LF test for me when I get up!


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Someone at the local library, yesterday, was getting the paperwork for a trip to Thailand printed off.
> Return was covered by a lateral flow test, before boarding the plane coming back and another when arrives back.
> Twenty-two sheets in total.


Lugging twenty two sheets of bumf around the world seems a small price to pay to avoid having a piece of annoying technology jammed in your ear 24/7 for the rest of your life.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Lugging twenty two sheets of bumf around the world seems a small price to pay to avoid having a piece of annoying technology jammed in your ear 24/7 for the rest of your life.


I was aghast when my mum bought me my first ('dumb') mobile phone, but eventually I got used to the idea and eventually bought a smartphone. I'm the boss though... I typically only send about 1 text every 2 days and make two or three calls a week. I use less than 0.1 GB of mobile data in a typical month. That is just checking weather forecasts, train delays, things like that.

_Heavy _use of a smartphone though - yes, I know what you mean!


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## PK99 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Lugging twenty two sheets of bumf around the world seems a small price to pay to avoid having a piece of annoying technology jammed in your ear 24/7 for the rest of your life.



I've got a small portable computer in my pocket, that I use for e-mail, browsing, WhatsApp, etc and carrying things like Covid passes, tickets, aide memoirs, shopping lists, reservations, and entry into other countries bumf.

I understand that some people use the same sort of device for voice communication. Why?


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Lugging twenty two sheets of bumf around the world seems a small price to pay to avoid having a piece of annoying technology jammed in your ear 24/7 for the rest of your life.


When was the last time the battery went flat on your paper copy as well?


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

PK99 said:


> I've got a small portable computer in my pocket, that I use for e-mail, browsing, WhatsApp, etc and carrying things like Covid passes, tickets, aide memoirs, shopping lists, reservations, and entry into other countries bumf.
> 
> I understand that some people use the same sort of device for voice communication. Why?


You don't seem to understand the creeping power of complete enslavement. Just look at people out and about in public, glued and oblivious. It's actually quite weird


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## PK99 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> You don't seem to understand the creeping power of complete enslavement. Just look at people out and about in public, glued and oblivious. It's actually quite weird



Oh, I do.

Ring tones silenced.
Notifications silenced
etc

It is my tool, I am not its slave.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> When was the last time the battery went flat on your paper copy as well?


That stops me using e-tickets! I still print out tickets at the machine at the station.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Someone at the local library, yesterday, was getting the paperwork for a trip to Thailand printed off.
> Return was covered by a lateral flow test, before boarding the plane coming back and another when arrives back.
> Twenty-two sheets in total.


Are they reading old guidance or something? 
Return to the UK currently requires no tests, no passenger locator form, literally nothing.


----------



## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

ColinJ said:


> That stops me using e-tickets! I still print out tickets at the machine at the station.


I read an article yesterday about having a Covid travel passport on your phone, and what happens if your phone somehow throws a wobbly at the departure gate. All the airlines interviewed said they were sympathetic except........you guessed........RyanAir.

"No refunds, no free re-booking".


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## kingrollo (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.



I don't believe that is correct. On the NHS app (not the covid app) - you get the choice between a domestic covid pass - and a travel covid pass. The travel covid pass is valid for longer.


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## midlife (30 Mar 2022)

Can you print one out from your NHS app?


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## DaveReading (30 Mar 2022)

There's a lot of nonsense posted on the net about NHS Covid passes.

AFAIK, there is no country in the world that demands a digital version (although it can smooth things when travelling to the USA on some airlines).

There's no requirement to have the smartphone app, either - anyone can access the NHS website with a simple browser and then download, print and/or store their pass on paper.

IME, both the domestic and travel passes have a month's validity.


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## Alex321 (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.


Why do you think having one would "enslave" you?

You can get one for less than the cost of a PCR test for countries that still require that, and there would be no need to use it for anything else.


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## kingrollo (30 Mar 2022)

midlife said:


> Can you print one out from your NHS app?


Well you download then print it - or get a PDF copy emailed.


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## kingrollo (30 Mar 2022)

DaveReading said:


> There's a lot of nonsense posted on the net about NHS Covid passes.
> 
> AFAIK, there is no country in the world that demands a digital version (although it can smooth things when travelling to the USA on some airlines).
> 
> ...


Just checked mine - it doesn't have an expiry date - and if it's to prove you have had required jabs why would it expire.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.



So print another pass whilst abroad. Problem solved.


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## kingrollo (30 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> So print another pass whilst abroad. Problem solved.


But you only need them for arrival in other countries. Not for flight back to UK.


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## vickster (30 Mar 2022)

kingrollo said:


> But you only need them for arrival in other countries. Not for flight back to UK.


Maybe he’s touring through /entering multiple countries over a period of more than a month?


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## Ajax Bay (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks @classic33. I believe the printed versions are only valid for four weeks. It seems you are totally stuffed if you are abroad for longer. I really don't want to be enslaved by a smart phone.


I fear, old slow chap, that the days of travel abroad (to England even) are numbered for those who want to travel without both a phone and unreasonable friction. But the plus side is that you have the confidence developed in the university of life to carry a minute computer and the discipline to use it for what YOU want, which may well not include daily communication (as @PK99 has said and see also @Alex321 's comment). Any enslavement is self-imposed and addiction is avoided with a little effort. The world changes and you, albeit reluctantly, will need to adapt. If my aged mother can finally operate an iPad (after years of resistance) then you can manage to do the same on a cheap but capable phone and a <£6 a month tariff.
I guess an option is to travel with a capable younger person and abrogate responsibility - in preparation for the instigation of the power of attorney that will ease your (and my) final administration.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2022)

I went abroad last week. I had to install the NHS app in order to be able to get the vaccination passport thingy, which was a bit annoying - I can't see why they can't do it from the .gov.uk website. But I printed it off and carried that with me. And no one wanted to look at it.

That said the phone was used to do online check-in on the way back, but printed boarding cards etc were obtained at the desk when checking in bags.

I've never used my phone for boarding cards or tickets or any of that malarky. I murder the planet by using printed copy.

And as usual, the automated passport gate wouldn't let me through, even with a brand-new passport. Technology, eh.


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## Landsurfer (30 Mar 2022)

My wifes just back from her 3rd trip to the Canaries since September last year ..although she had all relevant paperwork she was never asked for any of it in the UK (DSA) or on arrival or departure from the Canaries ... The latest trip with TUI she did not have to wear a mask on the plane in either direction ... Considering how aircraft pressurisation systems work masks have always been pointless ....
But the thing about the paperwork is you dare not have it with you ...


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## DaveReading (30 Mar 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I went abroad last week. I had to install the NHS app in order to be able to get the vaccination passport thingy, which was a bit annoying - I can't see why they can't do it from the .gov.uk website.


No app required - see my previous post. Just a browser.

https://covid-status.service.nhsx.nhs.uk/


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## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> My wifes just back from her 3rd trip to the Canaries since September last year ..although she had all relevant paperwork she was never asked for any of it in the UK (DSA) or on arrival or departure from the Canaries ... The latest trip with TUI she did not have to wear a mask on the plane in either direction ... Considering how aircraft pressurisation systems work masks have always been pointless ....
> But the thing about the paperwork is you dare not have it with you ...


We flew with Finnair last week and were required to wear masks throughout the flight. Which was no big deal. 
But as you say, aircraft are probably not a bad place to be - sitting in a tube with two ginormous fresh air compressor machines outside.
We stayed masked in the airports too.
No one wanted to see my vaccine passport that I had lovingly printed out.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Aargh - that's how I have been feeling... LF test for me when I get up!









_*Lurgy!!!*_ 

Hopefully, the vaccinations will do their job so it doesn't get any worse than it is now, which just feels like a nasty cold.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2022)

ColinJ said:


> View attachment 637744
> 
> 
> _*Lurgy!!!*_
> ...


Hope you're feeling better soon.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Hope you're feeling better soon.


Thanks.

I'm trying to get hold of my pal from Hebden Bridge. There is a very good chance that I caught this from her because she is the only person I have seen face to face in the past 2 weeks apart from shoppers that I walked past in Lidl and Aldi.

She was feeling strangely fatigued last week so perhaps that's what it was.

My sister and niece in Devon caught it last week. That is the second time in 6 months for my niece, but she works in a supermarket and so meets many people every day.


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## Cathryn (30 Mar 2022)

I’m day 6 and still testing positive. Feeling absolutely fine now though. Maybe a slight headache but mild enough to ignore! I’ve been lucky!


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## Electric_Andy (30 Mar 2022)

My ex wife had covid last week, just mild cold symptoms. I had to have our son all week. She tested negative 7 days after. It seems everyone I talk to has had it recently


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm trying to get hold of my pal from Hebden Bridge. There is a very good chance that I caught this from her because she is the only person I have seen face to face in the past 2 weeks



What have we told you about snogging outside the cafe?


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> What have we told you about snogging outside the cafe?


That would be about 20 years ago! 

I did give her a hug when we met up though which is when I reckon the lurgy jumped ship...


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## MrGrumpy (30 Mar 2022)

We were just about to book a cruise ( we like them ) . Wife says best test ourselves before we book . Well…….. that’s ended well .  I’m ok she’s not but we do have covid in the house. Son has tested negative today . Same again tomorrow for him and he’s out of jail ! I’ve got booked leave next week . If I’m ill over that I’ll not be best chuffed !


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## Slick (30 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> We were just about to book a cruise ( we like them ) . Wife says best test ourselves before we book . Well…….. that’s ended well .  I’m ok she’s not but we do have covid in the house. Son has tested negative today . Same again tomorrow for him and he’s out of jail ! I’ve got booked leave next week . If I’m ill over that I’ll not be best chuffed !


You can claim your leave back if you fall ill during it. Your absence just changes to an illness.


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## Slick (30 Mar 2022)

Another 3 weeks of mask wearing up here now. 

I do follow all the rules and have to enforce them at work, but its getting beyond the pale now.


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## Phaeton (30 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> We were just about to book a cruise ( we like them ) . Wife says best test ourselves before we book . Well…….. that’s ended well .  I’m ok she’s not but we do have covid in the house. Son has tested negative today . Same again tomorrow for him and he’s out of jail ! I’ve got booked leave next week . If I’m ill over that I’ll not be best chuffed !


We you going on the cruise in the next couple of days? I don't see the relevance of booking & doing the test, you can't inflect anybody via the website?


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2022)

Phaeton said:


> We you going on the cruise in the next couple of days? I don't see the relevance of booking & doing the test, you can't inflect anybody via the website?



Internet Virus 🦠 spread that way…


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

DaveReading said:


> No app required - see my previous post. Just a browser.
> 
> https://covid-status.service.nhsx.nhs.uk/


If you go online to the NHS website and get a digital Covid Pass, I believe you can download a pdf file of it. Do you know if a printed copy of that pdf file is good for proof of vaccination status abroad?


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## slowmotion (30 Mar 2022)

ColinJ said:


> View attachment 637744
> 
> 
> _*Lurgy!!!*_
> ...


Oh dear. Bad luck. There's a lot of it about at the moment.


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## alicat (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> If you go online to the NHS website and get a digital Covid Pass, I believe you can download a pdf file of it. Do you know if a printed copy of that pdf file is good for proof of vaccination status abroad?



Yes, well it worked okay for me when I went to France and Germany.


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## DaveReading (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> If you go online to the NHS website and get a digital Covid Pass, I believe you can download a pdf file of it. Do you know if a printed copy of that pdf file is good for proof of vaccination status abroad?


AFAIK any country that specifies that you have to be vaccinated (i.e. single/double/booster jabbed as appropriate) will accept a printed NHS Covid pass that's within its validity date as evidence.

It was certainly the case for both my recent trip to the USA and my upcoming one to Italy.


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## ColinJ (30 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Oh dear. Bad luck. There's a lot of it about at the moment.


There certainly _IS_. My sister somehow escaped catching it at the end of last year when her daughter (who lives with her) caught it. My niece had only just started to get her senses of taste and smell back when she came come down with Covid again, and this time her mum _DID _catch it. _AFAIK_, my nephew (who also lives with them) has managed to avoid catching it both times.

If I didn't have that positive test result I would swear that this was just a common cold. I have had all of these symptoms with colds in the past. Tonight's veggie curry still smelled and tasted great!


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## MrGrumpy (31 Mar 2022)

Phaeton said:


> We you going on the cruise in the next couple of days? I don't see the relevance of booking & doing the test, you can't inflect anybody via the website?


We were about to book for Tuesday but the wife said let’s just do an LFT first before we book . She’s tested positive…….. that was yesterday . She’s going for a PCR today . I’ve cancelled my leave . No holiday for now booo


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## MrGrumpy (31 Mar 2022)

Slick said:


> Another 3 weeks of mask wearing up here now.
> 
> I do follow all the rules and have to enforce them at work, but its getting beyond the pale now.


Indeed , I’m not sure another 3 weeks makes much difference now. So why bother nobody is even bothering now. It’s not being enforced , young and old are in the idagaf category now .


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Indeed , I’m not sure another 3 weeks makes much difference now. So why bother nobody is even bothering now. It’s not being enforced , young and old are in the idagaf category now .



Are you insured for the cancelled holiday. All this puts me off even thinking about booking anything.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2022)

Well no LFT home delivery slots available yet again. In effect they ended free tests a week early.


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## Landsurfer (31 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Well no LFT home delivery slots available yet again. In effect they ended free tests a week early.


Good .... enough money has gone down the tubes with this ... If you want to keep testing why not test for diabetes, colon cancer .... something that will save your life .... Does any one remember the winter illness with all the symptoms described on here called ... The Cold .... seems to have disappeared ....


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Good .... enough money has gone down the tubes with this ... If you want to keep testing why not test for diabetes, colon cancer .... something that will save your life .... Does any remember the winter illness with all the symptoms described on here called ... The Cold .... seems to have disappeared ....


Is there not still a legal requirement to stay away from work if you test positive?


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## Landsurfer (31 Mar 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Is there not still a legal requirement to stay away from work if you test positive?


No!


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## Alex321 (31 Mar 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Is there not still a legal requirement to stay away from work if you test positive?


No.
Self-isolation legal requirements have also now gone, although it is still recommended.


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No!


Sorry!


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## cyberknight (31 Mar 2022)

mini ck 1 and FIL positive as FIL has one lung due to TB keeping a close watch , work physio centre shut as the staff are all pretty much positive .


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## Landsurfer (31 Mar 2022)

£3.93 a week for LFT’s from Boots .... You want to test, you pay for it. (Based on twice weekly testing, other chemists are available)


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> £3.93 a week for LFT’s from Boots .... You want to test, you pay for it. (Based on twice weekly testing, other chemists are available)



My wife will probably have to pay, otherwise she won't be allowed to visit her mum in a care home. This is wrong.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2022)

fossyant said:


> My wife will probably have to pay, otherwise she won't be allowed to visit her mum in a care home. This is wrong.


She could ask the care home to provide?
My employer is still going to provide LFTs for people going to the office


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## Landsurfer (31 Mar 2022)

fossyant said:


> My wife will probably have to pay, otherwise she won't be allowed to visit her mum in a care home. This is wrong.


We will have to pay to visit Julies mum .... but it’s pennies compared to some of the costs involved on care ....
Nobody in our office or workshop is interested in testing so we won’t be doing anything ....


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> She could ask the care home to provide?
> My employer is still going to provide LFTs for people going to the office



Given MIL pays over £50k pa, they probably won't provide any...


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Good .... enough money has gone down the tubes with this ... If you want to keep testing why not test for diabetes, colon cancer .... something that will save your life .... Does any one remember the winter illness with all the symptoms described on here called ... The Cold .... seems to have disappeared ....


Can we get back to routine blood tests, I've not had any since October 2019.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Can we get back to routine blood tests, I've not had any since October 2019.


Have you requested from the hospital/GP? Certainly my father is having his routine appointments and tests on NHS


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## MrGrumpy (31 Mar 2022)

fossyant said:


> Are you insured for the cancelled holiday. All this puts me off even thinking about booking anything.



That’s the point we were just about to book and pay and thought let’s just do a test just to be sure we are fine right now ! Glad we did now !

Apologies if Confused some of you !


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2022)

Colleague in the office has just tested positive. We were in with them on Tuesday. Fortunately I'm about 8m from them, but another colleague who sit's opposite is bricking it as they are supposed to be off to Lanzarrote next week.


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## PK99 (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> Have you requested from the hospital/GP? Certainly my father is having his routine appointments and tests on NHS



Me too.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> Have you requested from the hospital/GP? Certainly my father is having his routine appointments and tests on NHS


They were done as part of the treatment, ordered/requested by the specialists. They, appointments and tests, stopped when this started.

Not having a go at hospital staff as they've had more on their plates these last two years.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> They were done as part of the treatment, ordered/requested by the specialists. They, appointments and tests, stopped when this started.
> 
> Not having a go at hospital staff as they've had more on their plates these last two years.


Have you tried contacting your Consultant’s secretary to get booked in? You may have just somehow slipped off the radar if there’s been no contact (presuming the tests are still important to have as part of ongoing treatment?)


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> Have you tried contacting your Consultant’s secretary to get booked in? You may have just somehow slipped off the radar if there’s been no contact (presuming the tests are still important to have as part of ongoing treatment?)


One department was closed early on, for another I'm awaiting a new specialist as the one I was seeing died, due to covid.
Seeing both for related reasons.

It's more the way that some have trivialised the last two years that's annoyed me.


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2022)

I know were slightly OT & run the risk of being told to go to NACA (is that the correct acronym) but my daughter was waiting to be called in to see a specialist, after a very long wait she thought she'd enquire only to be told as she'd missed an appointment she wouldn't be seen.

She had no knowledge of this appointment & was never advised of it although they have her home number, her mobile number, her email & her home address.


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## Dogtrousers (31 Mar 2022)

It is OT @Phaeton but I'd just note your daughter is not alone. A friend of mine was being treated for kidney cancer (he's in remission now) and had a similar thing happen which was all very distressing for him and his family. It turned out that the root cause in his case it turned out they had somehow created a doppelganger of him in the records.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> £3.93 a week for LFT’s from Boots .... You want to test, you pay for it. (Based on twice weekly testing, other chemists are available)



More than whining motorists were prepared to pay extra each week for fuel and so fuel duty got reduced..,


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## Alex321 (31 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> More than whining motorists were prepared to pay extra each week for fuel and so fuel dOn average, it will have been about the same.


I think on average motorists will have been paying about the same extra as that.

Petrol & diesel have gone up by over 20p/litre in the last few weeks.

At average mpg levels, that is about 200 miles to be £4 increase. I think average mileage is around 10K/year, which is 192 miles/week.


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## cyberknight (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> She could ask the care home to provide?
> My employer is still going to provide LFTs for people going to the office


over 75s apparantly can still get them free ?


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## shep (31 Mar 2022)

classic33 said:


> Can we get back to routine blood tests, I've not had any since October 2019.


Why, I have regular blood tests due to an ongoing gut problem. 
I have the forms either sent to me or given at the time of my treatment then just use either the walk in centre or the Hospital.


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## DaveReading (31 Mar 2022)

cyberknight said:


> over 75s apparantly can still get them free ?


No, only people in high-risk categories.


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## vickster (31 Mar 2022)

cyberknight said:


> over 75s apparantly can still get them free ?


I’m not sure that was confirmed in the end as above. But I think @fossyant MiL has lots of health issues so she may be in the ECV group and he could get on her behalf


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2022)

vickster said:


> I’m not sure that was confirmed in the end as above. But I think @fossyant MiL has lots of health issues so she may be in the ECV group and he could get on her behalf



MIL get's tested and free, but visiting her in the home we'll need to pay I think.

Anyway, checked in on some colleagues in office opposite, 4 are off with Covid at the moment in one team - not all caught at the same time/via each other. That's out of 7, and one other off with another illness.


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## Phaeton (31 Mar 2022)

Are they not for sale on Fleecebay, I would have thought there is a section of society who stockpiled them with little or no intention of using them & got them only because they were free.


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## Jenkins (31 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Well no LFT home delivery slots available yet again. In effect they ended free tests a week early.


I was able to order a pack late on Tuesday and it was delivered this morning.

Edited to add - this will be a spare pack which I'll take into the office so anyone who needs a test or two can help themselves


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Mar 2022)

Jenkins said:


> I was able to order a pack late on Tuesday and it was delivered this morning.
> 
> Edited to add - this will be a spare pack which I'll take into the office so anyone who needs a test or two can help themselves



How late? I’ve tried all week, and wonder if I tried late tonight I might be lucky


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## Jenkins (31 Mar 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How late? I’ve tried all week, and wonder if I tried late tonight I might be lucky


Sometime around 21:30 as the confirmation email was timed at 21:41


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## BoldonLad (31 Mar 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Are they not for sale on Fleecebay, I would have thought there is a section of society who stockpiled them with little or no intention of using them & got them only because they were free.



How cynical... but... worth a check


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## kingrollo (1 Apr 2022)

Day 4 of being covid positive. Runny nose driving me bonkers.

But pre covid would probably still be going to work


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## fossyant (1 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Day 4 of being covid positive. Runny nose driving me bonkers.
> 
> But pre covid would probably still be going to work



Stop posting on here and trying to spread your bugs.. 👅 Dropping like flies at my workplace.


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## kingrollo (1 Apr 2022)

For those who have had a mild bout of Covid how soon did you get back on your bike ? - I have heard of people who got back on after 7 days suffer a relapse of symptoms or even a new cough that they didn't have in the 7 days of COVID.


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## vickster (1 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> For those who have had a mild bout of Covid how soon did you get back on your bike ? - I have heard of people who got back on after 7 days suffer a relapse of symptoms or even a new cough that they didn't have in the 7 days of COVID.


Less than 2 weeks until outdoors, but then I had to isolate for 10 when I had it (used turbo inside). No relapse of symptoms, loss of sense of smell which lingered a bit didn’t affect pedalling 
Everyone is different though, do what’s right for you 🤷‍♀️


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## kingrollo (1 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> Less than 2 weeks until outdoors, but then I had to isolate for 10 when I had it (used turbo inside). No relapse of symptoms, loss of sense of smell which lingered a bit didn’t affect pedalling
> Everyone is different though, do what’s right for you 🤷‍♀️



Cheers.

did you notice any difference on how you felt on the bike - harder, more tired aftrwards ?


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## vickster (1 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Cheers.
> 
> did you notice any difference on how you felt on the bike - harder, more tired aftrwards ?


I’m a recreational cyclist, riding 10-20 miles a day, so not really no. It was a pretty mild illness, I’ve had far worse heavy colds.
It was also 6 months ago and going into winter when it always starts to feel harder anyhow


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## Johnno260 (1 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> For those who have had a mild bout of Covid how soon did you get back on your bike ? - I have heard of people who got back on after 7 days suffer a relapse of symptoms or even a new cough that they didn't have in the 7 days of COVID.



It took my a while to get back on the bike but with me it triggered other issues that needed to be investigated.

I had high temps that lingered fast the 10 or 13 day isolation period, and my other issues only stopped a month and a half ago.


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## kingrollo (3 Apr 2022)

Day 5 - pretty much feel ok. Some chest pain which feels muscular.

Still tested positive today - to be expected I suppose as I tested positive prior to any real symptoms. My symptoms didn't really kick in until Thurs when most people would have tested.


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## LarryDuff (3 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Cheers.
> 
> did you notice any difference on how you felt on the bike - harder, more tired aftrwards ?


I had it first week of February, didn't go out on bike until the last weekend of same month. Every ride since I have felt more tired than before, seems that whenever the road starts going upwards I run out of lungs and legs.


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## kingrollo (3 Apr 2022)

LarryDuff said:


> I had it first week of February, didn't go out on bike until the last weekend of same month. Every ride since I have felt more tired than before, seems that whenever the road starts going upwards I run out of lungs and legs.



That's what I'm dreading.... especially with a new bike on order !!!!

Thanks for the info though.


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## Landsurfer (3 Apr 2022)

No harm to you but ....
I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
Then made a full recovery ...
Because I’m self employed .....
Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........


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## Julia9054 (3 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........


You’ll have figures to prove that statement of course?
Thought not. Just prejudice then.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........





Julia9054 said:


> You’ll have figures to prove that statement of course? Thought not. Just prejudice then.


Not sure this is a useful discussion, but I went looking for 'figures' - data here (but none to support the poster's "amazement").
Prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/3march2022
"(UK) prevalence of self-reported long COVID was greatest in people aged 35 to 49 years, females, people living in more deprived areas, those working in teaching and education, social care or health care (likely reflecting increased exposure to COVID-19 infection in these sectors)"


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## DaveReading (3 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........


Probably about 86.3% of them, given that that's the proportion of the workforce that isn't self-employed.

So not really much scope for being amazed ...


----------



## kingrollo (4 Apr 2022)

Tested negative on day 6. Feel fully recovered - but will take it easy for the next week.

(Public Sector worker !)


----------



## fossyant (4 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........



Funny that, got a mate whose been suffering about 16 months with it and is still on Qxygen. He's managing to work, but hooked up for 16 hours a day - fortunately desk based. He's not been able to do much since catching it.


----------



## fossyant (4 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Tested negative on day 6. Feel fully recovered - but will take it easy for the next week.
> 
> (Public Sector worker !)



At least you'll be allowed back to work.


----------



## kingrollo (4 Apr 2022)

fossyant said:


> At least you'll be allowed back to work.


I wasn't off. WFH. !!!!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> That's what I'm dreading.... especially with a new bike on order !!!!
> 
> Thanks for the info though.



Blame the bike, is it a Corona Cycle?


----------



## fossyant (4 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> I wasn't off. WFH. !!!!



Or back in the office - we've had loads go 'off' but they are all WFH.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (4 Apr 2022)

Well I'm 4 weeks on from testing positive, I started back to work on day 12 when I got my second negative test but if anything I've gone a little downhill since then. I'm generally about 90% okay but my sinuses are infected and are causing pain, plus it takes me 30 minutes every morning to cough, sneeze and hack all the rubbish out which has collected in my nose and throat every night. There's a constant mild tiredness and a slightly heavy feeling on the upper respiratory tract. Not nice, I thought I'd be fit as a fiddle after a week or so.


----------



## fossyant (4 Apr 2022)

MIL now has Covid. 

Not good given she is extremely clinically vulnerable. She was rushed into hospital two weeks ago with suspected pneumonia and put on antibiotics, but she's not done the course as she was getting 'constipated' so SIL said stop taking them. (Constipated or potentially snuffing it with pneumonia - not really a choice. 

FFS - SIL is really stupid sometimes - you must finish anti-biotics. So, lung issues not cleared up and was raspy yesterday when same SIL visited, MIL tested positive this morning. Same SIL also has a clinically vulnerable husband whose ticker is knackered - she'll be pooping herself now !

Ballcocks. Fingers crossed MIL won't get too ill, but she's already got an infection, on top of having knackered heart, fluid on lungs and now add Covid on top.

As usual, this all happens just as we're about to have two weeks off work - every flaming time ! - At least we're only 90 minutes away in the caravan, if things do get worse.

I really do wish SIL wound't interfere with medicines - she has previous with FIL on his pain meds in end of life care. Oh you don't need that morphine - yes he flipping does he's dying.


----------



## Andy in Germany (4 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........



Someone _really, really, really,_ committed to their business wouldn't have caught Corona virus in the first place... tut, tut...


----------



## Andy in Germany (5 Apr 2022)

Masks are no longer mandatory in most public places (at least in Baden-Würtemberg). They are still "recommended" though and we're requesting that customers wear them as we have some vulnerable staff members.


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## KnittyNorah (5 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........



It's also amazing how some people apparently prefer to remain tied to oxygen tanks or dialysis machines instead of running free over the hillsides when I'm sure they could make a different decision for themselves. And as for those people who make the choice to have appendages or even entire limbs amputated when they've been damaged by sepsis, clots, etc, well, isn't it something everyone wants to do? 

What is even more amazing - bizarre even - is that someone believes they made a full recovery (from anything) _because they are self-employed ..._
It is as if self-_employment_ creates some magical, Harry Potter-esque, self-_healing _balm or lotion, as dispensed at St Mungo's Hospital and the Sanitorium at Hogwart's ...


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## BoldonLad (5 Apr 2022)

It would appear, that, so far, the approximately 300 people who have voted are far from typical of the population of the UK. Only 10% say they have had the virus, but, current infection rates are 1 in 18, ie 18%, we are told. Some poor souls must have a double dose.

Edit. Oops, think I have just failed my GCSE Maths cannot work out %ges! (5.5%)


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## classic33 (5 Apr 2022)

BoldonLad said:


> It would appear, that, so far, the approximately 300 people who have voted are far from typical of the population of the UK. Only 10% say they have had the virus, but, current infection rates are 1 in 18, ie 18%, we are told. Some poor souls must have a double dose.


Figure has remained unchanged for nearly a year now.


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## Ajax Bay (5 Apr 2022)

Good to see some lateral thinking to provide the benefits to musicians who perforce have to sit close in an orchestra.
This was shared a few days ago (though clearly for wind and brass instruments only, and some limitations noted) by the COVID-19 Actuaries Group:


----------



## Julia9054 (5 Apr 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Good to see some lateral thinking to provide the benefits to musicians who perforce have to sit close in an orchestra.
> This was shared a few days ago (though clearly for wind and brass instruments only, and some limitations noted) by the COVID-19 Actuaries Group:
> View attachment 638695


Bell (end!) covers have been a thing in some brass bands for about a year now


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## ColinJ (5 Apr 2022)




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## Landsurfer (5 Apr 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Good to see some lateral thinking to provide the benefits to musicians who perforce have to sit close in an orchestra.
> This was shared a few days ago (though clearly for wind and brass instruments only, and some limitations noted) by the COVID-19 Actuaries Group:
> View attachment 638695


Mask Muppets ......... It’s a lifestyle thing .....


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## Andy in Germany (5 Apr 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> It's also amazing how some people apparently prefer to remain tied to oxygen tanks or dialysis machines instead of running free over the hillsides when I'm sure they could make a different decision for themselves. And as for those people who make the choice to have appendages or even entire limbs amputated when they've been damaged by sepsis, clots, etc, well, isn't it something everyone wants to do?
> 
> What is even more amazing - bizarre even - is that someone believes they made a full recovery (from anything) _because they are self-employed ..._
> It is as if self-_employment_ creates some magical, Harry Potter-esque, self-_healing _balm or lotion, as dispensed at St Mungo's Hospital and the Sanitorium at Hogwart's ...



We have the answer to pretty much everything now... make them all self-employed, all health issues will vanish.


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## PaulSB (6 Apr 2022)

BoldonLad said:


> It would appear, that, so far, the approximately 300 people who have voted are far from typical of the population of the UK. Only 10% say they have had the virus, but, current infection rates are 1 in 18, ie 18%, we are told. Some poor souls must have a double dose.
> 
> Edit. Oops, think I have just failed my GCSE Maths cannot work out %ges! (5.5%)


Just changed mine to yes as circumstances have changed!


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## PaulSB (6 Apr 2022)

How are we doing? Our local experience is folk are either simply positive or very ill, many in my retired age group are very ill and these are fit active individuals. My son shares a house with three clinically vulnerable individuals. A carer has brought Covid to the house. One client tested positive and has returned to the family home. My lad is currently negative, if he tests positive he will have to come home as isolation will mean at least five, possibly ten, days in his bedroom.

Fingers are crossed!


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## Landsurfer (6 Apr 2022)

From Allison Pearson’s column in todays Telegraph  ;

"Nine new official symptoms of Covid-19 have just been added to the NHS website. Symptoms may or may not include the following:

Sneezing in the past 10 months
Possession of a cat
Feeling like a week off (public sector only)
A runny nose
Memory loss, especially if employed by the DVLA, when you find it hard to remember the nature and place of your employment. (Perhaps because you haven’t been into the office since March 2020?)
Netflix
Fog. Not brain fog. Just fog. Any fog.
Irritability following the ending of free Covid tests in England, thus making 3. less likely.
Dry throat, splitting headache, intermittent vomiting, throbbing behind the eyes (not linked in any way to working your way through the cocktail menu in the Goat and Grapes)."


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## kingrollo (7 Apr 2022)

Day 9.

Mostly recovered tested negative on day 6 and 7.

Most worrying was a trip to building society on day 7 came over all dizzy thought I was going to pass out. Soon passed.

Very minor chest pains - which feel muscular tbh. And want to clear my throat and nose mainly early morning.

Anxiety about when to get back on bike. Not helped by rebuild of bike with loads new goodies set to be
delivered tomorrow !!!!!!


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## kingrollo (7 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> From Allison Pearson’s column in todays Telegraph  ;
> 
> "Nine new official symptoms of Covid-19 have just been added to the NHS website. Symptoms may or may not include the following:
> 
> ...


YMMV.

To me if someone says there are ill - I'm inclined to believe them.


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## vickster (7 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Day 9.
> 
> Mostly recovered tested negative on day 6 and 7.
> 
> ...


Ride on a calm weather day, and just plan to see how it goes, have a bail out or shorter loop planned


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## All uphill (7 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........


In response to your sample group of one, here's my sample of one.

Our son previously in excellent health had mild covid followed by long covid - had to sell his home, give up his private sector job and is still unwell 20 months later. 

If it happened to someone close to you then casual prejudice might not seem so enjoyable.


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## kingrollo (7 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> Ride on a calm weather day, and just plan to see how it goes, have a bail out or shorter loop planned



Yeah - might just be around the estate. 

If covid knocks any more speed out of me - I will be going backwards !!!!


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## Jody (7 Apr 2022)

I've got it again. Assume from the kids party held at a local play centre last weekend.

Another week in solitary.


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## Landsurfer (8 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> I've got it again. Assume from the kids party held at a local play centre last weekend.
> 
> Another week in solitary.


Sorry to hear that. How do you know you’ve got it ?


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## Julia9054 (8 Apr 2022)

Loads of staff at work have it at the moment. Out of our department of 21 people, there are only 5 of us that haven't had it yet.
Schools have large stashes of left over lfts and have been told by the DofE that they are not allowed to give them out to kids or to staff.


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## PaulSB (8 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Sorry to hear that. How do you know you’ve got it ?


Possibly he took an LFT?


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## PaulSB (8 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Loads of staff at work have it at the moment. Out of our department of 21 people, there are only 5 of us that haven't had it yet.
> Schools have large stashes of left over lfts and have been told by the DofE that they are not allowed to give them out to kids or to staff.


Although I'm retired it's a similar situation in our family, social circle and the village school.

Socially we know perhaps 20 people with positive test results; they fall into two groups, very ill or virtually asymptomatic. In the same household it can be one partner ill and the other simply positive. We have good friends who have been part of a government testing programme for two years, they are also two of the most cautious people we know. Both recently mentioned they have "very high" antibody levels. Daughter unknowingly brought Covid to the house last Saturday.

My son is in Supported Living in the Community. He shares a house with three other young men. Two carers tested positive last Saturday, two clients ill by Monday. My son is currently negative. Isolation for people with SLD is hugely problematic.

At the village school it's not a question of is there Covid but how many children and staff are off school.

Looking back, and largely for my son, I see I've done 23 LFTs and 5 PCRs. Hadn't tested since January but I've had to do 4 LFTs in the last 11 days. My wife has similar numbers.


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## Jody (8 Apr 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Sorry to hear that. How do you know you’ve got it ?



LFT when I started feeling funny.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2022)

kingrollo said:


> Day 9.
> 
> Mostly recovered tested negative on day 6 and 7.
> 
> ...



Don‘t rush too quickly back into the exercise you did pre Covid. Even if you are testing negative doesn’t mean your body has repaired any internal damage. Ease back into it, and back off if necessary. Just accept fitness will have taken a hit and you need to be cautious to avoid a set back.


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## PaulSB (8 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Don‘t rush too quickly back into the exercise you did pre Covid. Even if you are testing negative doesn’t mean your body has repaired any internal damage. Ease back into it, and back off if necessary. Just accept fitness will have taken a hit and you need to be cautious to avoid a set back.


I would echo this. I had Covid over Christmas, very mild and basically a sore throat and under the weather. I'd also had a bad chest infection in early December. I went to hard in January and that had a poor effect on me both physically and mentally as I was very disappointed with my efforts. It's taken me till this week to regain my positive mental approach to cycling and to find my mojo again. I simply over did, please don't do the same.


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## kingrollo (8 Apr 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I would echo this. I had Covid over Christmas, very mild and basically a sore throat and under the weather. I'd also had a bad chest infection in early December. I went to hard in January and that had a poor effect on me both physically and mentally as I was very disappointed with my efforts. It's taken me till this week to regain my positive mental approach to cycling and to find my mojo again. I simply over did, please don't do the same.



Will try.

Without wishing to sound macho - I do find I'm better when doing stuff. For example if I have a cold - it clears up quicker if I struggle the early morning discomfort and go to work - rather than stay in bed.

At the minute my chest and arms feel exactly like I've overdone it on the bench press big time at the gym.

30 minutes walk with the dog - no problems at all.

I'm usually a light sleeper - but sleeping really well at the moment - but not struggling to get out of bed like some people.

It's only 10 days so no need to panic yet.


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## Richard A Thackeray (9 Apr 2022)

We've still got 100+ cases in the Trust, & are still treating anyone arriving with respiratory problems as positive... _Until proven Negative _
(to err on the side of caution)

This appeared as a (2 years ago) FB memory, I think I had a look out, but went back in
The X5s seen at about 20 seconds are some of the local ARV units
Well done Salim, for filming it


View: https://www.facebook.com/TheMidYorkshireHospitalsNHSTrust/videos/1683000055172719


*EDIT @ 19:25*
This was an arranged 'Clap For The NHS' affair, I believe that the Police had got in touch & offered to let every available Officer/car be there, for a few minutes
Likewise, it was few minutes relief for the A&E Doctors/Nurses, who had been in the forefront of it all

Within a few minutes every vehicle was gone, barring maybe a couple of Police 'response' units who were changing over with collegues who were on escort duties

We're still busy, with a split A&E department (red & green sides)
A couple of nights last week saw the night-shift starting with 100+ patients booked in
7 hour waits to see a Doctor
24 hours for a bed, on a Ward


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2022)

Richard - I think you might want to edit the above (ad a context comment as text) to make clear what's being filmed. The immediate impression is of lots of NHS clinical, support, ambulance and other standing around filming one another and the scene of waiting ambulances overmatching the hospital's capacity to receive. Only later, and by looking at a comment in explanation (and then flicking back to see people clapping), do we discover it's 'clap for the NHS' hour and that 8pm is a shift change (hence all the people whom a 'civilian' might think might be more effectively employed 'working' to clear the ambulance jam.
I hope that there's more normality (stretch) to the hospital's work now .
PS I assume that by "_proven negative_" you mean not a positive result on a PCR?


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## kingrollo (10 Apr 2022)

Well 11 days after testing positive. I ventured out for an hour on my bike today. I took it really easy watching my heart rate.

Even not caring about my speed and a relaxing ride - my average HR was 5bpm higher than riding this route previously.

No other after effects - hopefully my HR settles over the next few weeks.


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## Julia9054 (18 Apr 2022)

Buggering covid finally got me. 2 years of kids sneezing and coughing all over me and Al getting it 5 weeks ago had me convinced I might be immune. Nope.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2022)

Get well soon. Do you get an extended Easter break


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## Rusty Nails (18 Apr 2022)

Had a rough week last week starting with a not too hard ride that knackered me on Monday. Failed on another ride attempt Thursday so tested........came out positive, still positive today .

A rough four days since then but really nothing more than a normal bout of man flu. I suspect there will be lingering tiredness but I'm off to Italy in three weeks for a bit of R & R so fingers crossed.


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## Julia9054 (18 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> Get well soon. Do you get an extended Easter break



Still got a week of holiday to go - I’m sure I’ll be fine by next Monday like the good little worker drone I am!


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## Julia9054 (20 Apr 2022)

Day 3, slightly wheezy, mostly bored and cutting my healthy eating regime some slack!





Sour dough loaf + hot crossless buns!
Wondering whether it's a good or bad idea to lift some weights.


----------



## Jody (20 Apr 2022)




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## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Had a rough week last week starting with a not too hard ride that knackered me on Monday. Failed on another ride attempt Thursday so tested........came out positive, still positive today .
> 
> A rough four days since then but really nothing more than a normal bout of man flu. I suspect there will be lingering tiredness but I'm off to Italy in three weeks for a bit of R & R so fingers crossed.



Never having had the flu, what’s it like?


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## Rusty Nails (20 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Never having had the flu, what’s it like?



Neither have I.

Man flu is a cold.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Neither have I.
> 
> Man flu is a cold.



Ah so nowt you’d notice other than a runny nose


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## Rusty Nails (20 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Ah so nowt you’d notice other than a runny nose



A lot more than that. A heavy cold with sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, aching limbs, headache, but still not flu, just man flu. It is not pleasant but only lasts for days. I feel fine now but still testing positive so keeping away from people.


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## DCLane (20 Apr 2022)

@Ming the Merciless & @Rusty Nails I've had proper flu twice. Both times were nasty and I spent at least a week in bed, with several weeks of recovery. Swine Flu near killed me as I'm classed as 'vulnerable' and that one saw me in hospital.


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## Rusty Nails (20 Apr 2022)

DCLane said:


> @Ming the Merciless & @Rusty Nails I've had proper flu twice. Both times were nasty and I spent at least a week in bed, with several weeks of recovery. Swine Flu near killed me as I'm classed as 'vulnerable' and that one saw me in hospital.



That is why I used the term "man flu", which makes fun of the many people who say they have had the flu when they have just had a heavy cold.

Real flu is a different, nastier kettle of fish altogether.


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## mistyoptic (20 Apr 2022)

Just at the tail end of the big C. To be fair, I’ve had worse colds. Only the red lines defined it.

Still tested positive this morning but
1 day feeling like I’d been kicked, 3 days desperately tired, back to bed tired. 1 day blocked up needing decongestant.

I'm sure that having three jabs has helped me to weather this much better than the early sufferers


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## ColinJ (20 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Never having had the flu, what’s it like?


Let's face it, the fact that it kills lots of people every winter should be a pretty good clue! 

As far as flu goes, Nietzsche definitely got it wrong... _“That which does not kill us makes us stronger” - _Pah! More like _“That flu which does not kill us makes us pray for death” _or _“That flu which does not kill us makes us cry for our mummies to save us”_! 



Globalti said:


> If you had influenza you definitely wouldn't be on your laptop typing stuff.
> 
> You've probably just got a cold.





ColinJ said:


> I never believed that kind of message until I finally caught real 'flu. My legs started buckling under me so I had to crawl to the bathroom for the regular bouts of vomiting and the squits. I had to pull the phone to me by its cord to phone in sick.
> 
> I would definitely have passed the 'unable to take advantage of free bag of banknotes on doorstep' test!



It forever stopped me calling colds '_flu_'!


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## roubaixtuesday (20 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Never having had the flu, what’s it like?



Two things about flu.

1. If you would rather live than die, you don't have flu. 

2. If you're not sure you have flu, you don't have flu.


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## Bazzer (20 Apr 2022)

Mrs B and I tested +ve. She last Friday, me after a bike ride on Sunday morning. Which has pi**ed both of us off, as indoor in public spaces or travelling, we have continued to wear masks. It has also wrecked in part my youngest daughter's 21st birthday and is likely to wreck, wholly or in part, a celebration meal we have booked for Saturday.
Mrs B had very painful leg muscles, but is very tired. Me, it's gone for my throat and right kidney. Not had a throat like this for many years, when it was touch and go if, as an adult, I would have a tonsillectomy. If it was not for the test, I would have suspected a kidney stone about to go walkabout in my kidney. Even watering the vegetables makes me knackered.
Mrs B is noticably better this evening, but is still tired and is hoping for a -ve test tomorrow.🤞
Edit: Temperature also all over the .place. At one time on Tuesday I could feel I was going colder. Within 10 mins I was shaking so much with cold that I couldn't hold the warm drink I had made to warm myself up. Ended up fully clothed wrapped in a winter duvet


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## mistyoptic (20 Apr 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Two things about flu.
> 
> 1. If you would rather live than die, you don't have flu.
> 
> 2. If you're not sure you have flu, you don't have flu.


Not forgetting, if you see someone drop a £20 in your garden and you can/want to go and pick it up, you don’t have flu


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## Andy in Germany (20 Apr 2022)

DCLane said:


> @Ming the Merciless & @Rusty Nails I've had proper flu twice. Both times were nasty and I spent at least a week in bed, with several weeks of recovery. Swine Flu near killed me as I'm classed as 'vulnerable' and that one saw me in hospital.



I hear you: a cold can hit me hard, as I'm also in a "vulnerable" group, and Flu is very, very unpleasant.


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## roubaixtuesday (20 Apr 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> Not forgetting, if you see someone drop a £20 in your garden and you can/want to go and pick it up, you don’t have flu



If someone moored an oligarch's yacht in the garden pond with the keys left in, I wouldn't have got up to nick it.


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## ColinJ (20 Apr 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> Not forgetting, if you see someone drop a £20 in your garden and you can/want to go and pick it up, you don’t have flu



Or as I put it in a quote in post #3,957 above - "_I would definitely have passed the 'unable to take advantage of free bag of banknotes on doorstep' test!_"


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## shep (21 Apr 2022)

When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?

As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?

I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).


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## Bazzer (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> .....
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> .... ..


Precisely because the virus affects people differently. It's called responsibility to society.
But you knew that anyway. You just don't acknowledge it.


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## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?
> 
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> 
> I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).



Yeah. Stuff everyone else.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> Yeah. Stuff everyone else.



If you want?

Not got an opinion on what I asked then?


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## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Bazzer said:


> Precisely because the virus affects people differently. It's called responsibility to society.
> But you knew that anyway. You just don't acknowledge it.



You haven't got an opinion on what I've asked either then?


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## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

Basically, you've never had the virus so don't see it as a problem. If you're not that ill, crack on. We've got to live our lives so who cares about the next person.

Is that about right?


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## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> Basically, you've never had the virus so don't see it as a problem. If you're not that ill, crack on. We've got to live our lives so who cares about the next person.
> 
> Is that about right?



Is it, where did I write that then?

I've asked a straight forward question and instead of giving us your opinion on testing and what the future is regarding Covid you seem to be psycho analysing me?

Try re-reading my post and telling us what your opinion is on the question asked, obviously if you haven't got one then that's fine.


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## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

I'm not getting into a argument and I'm not psycho analysing anyone. That's the basic premise of what you wrote.


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## vickster (21 Apr 2022)

If I get a cold, I avoid passing it on to other people too


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## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> I'm not getting into a argument and I'm not psycho analysing anyone. That's the basic premise of what you wrote.



But, what do YOU think?

Will YOU be still testing in a year from now at the first sign of a cold and if so for how long, 1 year, 5 years, forever?


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> If I get a cold, I avoid passing it on to other people too



I would too, when do you think you would stop testing yourself if feeling unwell?


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## vickster (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> But, what do YOU think?
> 
> Will YOU be still testing in a year from now at the first sign of a cold and if so for how long, 1 year, 5 years, forever?



I’ll continue to test if my company requests it before I go to the office. Or if I have symptoms - especially if I’m due to see elderly parents, vulnerable friends or have a medical appointment for example


----------



## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> But, what do YOU think?
> 
> Will YOU be still testing in a year from now at the first sign of a cold and if so for how long, 1 year, 5 years, forever?



No. What do YOU think?

If I get the tell tale signs of Rona, I'll be testing for the sake of others and isolating if I need to. For however long it takes.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (21 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> No. What do YOU think?
> 
> If I get the tell tale signs of Rona, I'll be testing for the sake of others and isolating if I need to. For however long it takes.



Rona? 

When did that happen? 🙂


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> No. What do YOU think?
> 
> If I get the tell tale signs of Rona, I'll be testing for the sake of others and isolating if I need to. For however long it takes.



What's your problem?

I haven't ever had the need to test so haven't taken one, if I thought I had Covid I would do a test but if well enough to work I would (we worked all through anyway) these are the guidelines now I believe?

Now, what is 'however long it takes ' in real terms to you?


----------



## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Rona?
> 
> When did that happen? 🙂



It's a new variant.


----------



## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> What's your problem?
> 
> I haven't ever had the need to test so haven't taken one, if I thought I had Covid I would do a test but if well enough to work I would (we worked all through anyway) these are the guidelines now I believe?
> 
> Now, what is 'however long it takes ' in real terms to you?



You have my position. I don't need to clarify any further.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> I’ll continue to test if my company requests it before I go to the office. Or if I have symptoms - especially if I’m due to see elderly parents, vulnerable friends or have a medical appointment for example



What happens when companies revert to Ssp only rather than full pay, or you hit a 'trigger ' for having too many instances of sick?


----------



## vickster (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> What happens when companies revert to Ssp only rather than full pay, or you hit a 'trigger ' for having too many instances of sick?



My company doesn’t expect people to work when they are sick, however I would work from home if well enough to work but have a positive test. That’s the current policy  I’m pretty much home based anyhow. I had Covid in October, 3 days off sick (although I did monitor email, joined a couple of key calls, I spent 10 days in isolation as required at that time)

I can’t speak for others/other employers


----------



## Julia9054 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?
> 
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> 
> I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).



I very much dislike the new "do what you like" rules.
I have covid at the moment. I may be testing negative by Monday when school returns but if not and I go to work, I'm risking infecting others. If i stay off, I'm dumping on my colleagues. Either way, it's me who gets to feel guilty.


----------



## Bazzer (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> You haven't got an opinion on what I've asked either then?


I thought I had expressed it in my reply? But if you want it expressed less subtly, IMO the person who sees the double redline on a testing stick and carries on as normal is a selfish tw@t.
But then, as you have never done a test, it suggests to me that either you are in a position where you don't meet vulnerable people, or you don't take societal responsibility seriously.


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Apr 2022)

A few Christmases ago I had something that I think was flu. It was_ nothing _at all like a cold, not snotty, not sore throat. Definitely not a bad cold. It was pretty horrible (weakness, weariness, joint pain, muscle, pain temperature all over the place, profuse sweating) and I was laid up for a few days but it was nowhere near as bad as some people up thread are making out. I could definitely have got downstairs for a bag of banknotes. It would have taken a long time but it would have been doable. But in practice I would have just got my wife to go and get it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> . I may be testing negative by Monday when school returns but if not and I go to work, I'm risking infecting others. If i stay off, I'm dumping on my colleagues.



Being off when you are sick is not dumping on your colleagues. It’s this kind of thinking that sees sick colleagues come in and fark everybody else off by passing on whatever they are infected with. It’s not noble or clever to go into work when sick.


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?
> 
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> 
> I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).


I've had more than covid/C-19 ruining my plans for more than 50 years.* This is just another "blip" for me. It's odd in a way, you say that the testing is a bit over the top. To me tests were and are just a case of returning a number within a certain range, not a thin red line. Maybe this is where we really differ. Tests are already a way of life for me, to you they're something new, best avoided.

I've had neither flu nor covid, just like yourself. And if I had a cold, I got on with living. Always aware of the fact that people don't like being coughed or sneezed upon. Something many seem to be forgetting at present.

Maybe if the last two years has shown us anything, its that there's some who couldn't cope with being told they can't do something they took for granted. There's also a minority that don't appear to have any concerns about anyone but themselves. Once again, that's coming to the fore. Coughing, sneezing, spitting where and when they want.





*I realised, long ago, that I'm not alone in this, and that there are others in much worse positions than me.


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> What's your problem?
> 
> I haven't ever had the need to test so haven't taken one, if I thought I had Covid I would do a test but if well enough to work I would (we worked all through anyway) these are the guidelines now I believe?
> 
> Now, what is 'however long it takes ' in real terms to you?


You've never been in the position of testing to try and protect others, from something you may have had at the time?


----------



## cougie uk (21 Apr 2022)

Still avoiding it. Pal had it a month ago and now 2 weeks of being clear - she's gone from being a fit and active person - thought nothing of 10 mile walks - to not having the energy to walk the dog. So even if she recovers soon - it would be a month off exercise. I'll stick with the mask inside busy places thanks.


----------



## ClichéGuevara (21 Apr 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Still avoiding it. Pal had it a month ago and now 2 weeks of being clear - she's gone from being a fit and active person - thought nothing of 10 mile walks - to not having the energy to walk the dog. So even if she recovers soon - it would be a month off exercise. *I'll stick with the mask inside busy places thanks.*



Which type of mask do you wear? I ask because most (at best) protect others from you, but very few protect you from others.


----------



## Julia9054 (21 Apr 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Being off when you are sick is not dumping on your colleagues. It’s this kind of thinking that sees sick colleagues come in and fark everybody else off by passing on whatever they are infected with. It’s not noble or clever to go into work when sick.



I'm not really sick though - currently on day 4 and if it doesn't get any worse than this, I will have escaped very lightly.


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?
> 
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to *knock you off your feet* then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> 
> I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).



Define “knock you off your feet”.

I’ve had symptoms of a very heavy cold, described in my earlier posts, but I managed to stay on my feet. Luckily very few illnesses have ever actually “knocked me off my feet”. Not ready yet to ride my bike and still testing positive today, so will not be going out in company because I do not want to risk passing it on to others, some who might get hit by it worse than I was. Minor inconvenience to me but probably better than passing it on.


----------



## Jody (21 Apr 2022)

My symptoms have been so few with Covid that if it wasn't for the breathing issues towards the end of infection I'd probably opt for CV over cold.

However, both times as its gone round one person in my office has ended up in hospital. Both with no underlying issues. One guy is the same age as me at 43.

Everyone other than myself said it was a horrible and wouldn't wish it on their enemy. 

I'm the only one who is relatively Asymptomatic. 

This last infection has left me breathless and its still hanging around on my chest.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

classic33 said:


> You've never been in the position of testing to try and protect others, from something you may have had at the time?



No.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Define “knock you off your feet”.



I've never been that ill but I assume others have given their explanation of 'real flu' so probably better to ask them?


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> No.


You've been lucky these last two years then.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Bazzer said:


> But then, as you have never done a test, it suggests to me that either you are in a position where you don't meet vulnerable people, or you don't take societal responsibility seriously.



Or not been ill therefore not needing to test?


You test for something to do then or required to for work?


----------



## BoldonLad (21 Apr 2022)

One of my pensioner drinking pals (and his wife) tested positive about three weeks ago. They were not "ill" as such, just slightly unwell, cold-like was his description. They are sticklers for "the rules" so, have been testing regularly, isolating, etc. Now, all symptoms have gone, but, they are still testing positive and being "pinged" daily by some NHS App. I am interested to see how long before they give up, stop testing, and, re-join the world.


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Or not been ill therfore not needing to test?
> 
> 
> You test for something to do then or required to for work?


Not all tests are required for work reasons. 
Speaking on a personal level.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I'm not really sick though - currently on day 4 and if it doesn't get any worse than this, I will have escaped very lightly.



Did you test positive? - Yes, in which case you are sick even if you think you have no symptoms, and likely contagious.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Or not been ill therfore not needing to test?
> 
> 
> You test for something to do then or required to for work?



When we went back to Morris practice in an indoor hall, we all agreed we would do a test before coming to practice each week (and obviously not come if it came out positive).

There are other reasons than work for doing them.


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> I've never been that ill but I assume others have given their explanation of 'real flu' so probably better to ask them?



I asked you because you used the phrase. If you used it for effect without actually knowing what you meant by it I'm not surprised. I didn't really expect you to answer.

Covid has a mild effect for some but not for others, thanks primarily due to the success of the vaccines,but it can still be unpleasant and is highly transmissible. I prefer not to increase the risk of passing it on to others.

A cold can have very mild effects but can also be quite debilitating. I do not test at the first sign of a sniff or sneeze, and this recent positive test was my first test for many months since I went to visit my aunt in a care home. No great hardship and not exactly an attack on my independence or freedom.

I cannot see into the future and have as little scientific knowledge of this virus and epidemiology as you, so will not hazard a blind guess as to how long I will be prepared to test when necessary. YMMV


----------



## ColinJ (21 Apr 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I could definitely have got downstairs for a bag of banknotes. It would have taken a long time but it would have been doable. But in practice I would have just got my wife to go and get it.


I wouldn't have known that the banknotes were there anyway! I wasn't capable of going downstairs to check to see if anybody had left a bag of notes. I couldn't walk across the room to look out of the window. If somebody had rung me to try to tell me about the banknotes I wouldn't even have answered the phone. And I don't have a partner for bag of banknotes checking and retrieval!

I had a bad cold once. When I was actually getting over the cold, I went out on my bike too soon and ended up unconscious at the roadside. That was '_just_' from overexertion with the tail end of a cold. My recent dose of Covid felt a little less nasty than that cold. The flu was 10 times _worse _than that cold...


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> When, I wonder, will we stop letting Covid 'ruin our plans'?
> 
> As already stated if you had it bad enough to knock you off your feet then clearly you'll be stopping in, if however the symptoms are simply cold like would we all be having a week off work and not going out just because some stick has a red line on it?
> 
> I've been fortunate to have had neither Flu or Covid, I assume anyway, so just find it all a bit over the top myself. (the testing).




I think the time to stop the testing and quarantine regime is when we know the strains still going around aren't dangerous to people in more vulnerable groups.

I appreciate that this is slightly illogical because on that basis we need to make serious policy changes to reduce car use, as cars are a leading cause of death, but still...


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

BoldonLad said:


> One of my pensioner drinking pals (and his wife) tested positive about three weeks ago. They were not "ill" as such, just slightly unwell, cold-like was his description. They are sticklers for "the rules" so, have been testing regularly, isolating, etc. Now, all symptoms have gone, but, they are still testing positive and being "pinged" daily by some NHS App. I am interested to see how long before they give up, stop testing, and, re-join the world.



Are people still capable of passing the virus on to others if they test positive but are symptom-less?

If so then I think you're friends are to be congratulated on their social conscience.

They have not left the world, just sacrificing some activities, like drinking in the pub, for a while.

Do you think they should do the easy thing and "give up"? Do you have a view on how long they should wait before "giving up"?


----------



## Alex321 (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Are people still capable of passing the virus on to others if they test positive but are symptom-less?
> 
> If so then I think you're friends are to be congratulated on their social conscience.
> 
> ...



Well the last rules before t hey scrapped them said you could stop self isolating after 10 days even if still testing positive.


----------



## Bazzer (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Or not been ill therfore not needing to test?
> 
> 
> You test for something to do then or required to for work?


As said upthread, testing isn't just for illness. In fact in my case, only 1 test has been done because I was feeling under the weather. The one positive test I have had was done because my wife had tested +ve two days earlier. So I was doing daily tests. - Because I didn't want to be mixing with other people and potentially passing on the infection, even if I was feeling OK. You know; social responsibility.
Other examples, illustrative not exhaustive:
Up to very recently, work asked for an LFT to be done before going in, to prevent infection spreading. In fact since this has been dropped, there are now almost daily emails about someone who had been in, has tested positive, extra cleaning, blah blah. 
Tests are being done every time I, my wife, or my daughters, visit my Mum. - Vulnerable person.
Tests are done before I meet up with a friend in his mid 70s and I know his daughters do the same. My wife does the same with a friend of hers around the same age. And we also know they test before seeing us. - Social responsibility.


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Well the last rules before t hey scrapped them said you could stop self isolating after 10 days even if still testing positive.



Could, not should, or even must.

Are those rules or guidelines?

People will have different views about what works for them.....and how they regard rules.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Bazzer said:


> As said upthread, testing isn't just for illness. In fact in my case, only 1 test has been done because I was feeling under the weather. The one positive test I have had was done because my wife had tested +ve two days earlier. So I was doing daily tests. - Because I didn't want to be mixing with other people and potentially passing on the infection, even if I was feeling OK. You know; social responsibility.
> Other examples, illustrative not exhaustive:
> Up to very recently, work asked for an LFT to be done before going in, to prevent infection spreading. In fact since this has been dropped, there are now almost daily emails about someone who had been in, has tested positive, extra cleaning, blah blah.
> Tests are being done every time I, my wife, or my daughters, visit my Mum. - Vulnerable person.
> Tests are done before I meet up with a friend in his mid 70s and I know his daughters do the same. My wife does the same with a friend of hers around the same age. And we also know they test before seeing us. - Social responsibility.



Well done, now back to my original query. 

How long do people see themselves doing this for and what might make them change their approach?

If work no longer required testing, if pay was affected (only SSP for example) or when free test kits run out and what does 'as long as needed ' mean to people?

This is a genuine post as I know very few people who test on a regular basis and that includes over 70's who I go to football with as well as mid 50's work mates. 

Can people see themselves doing this for years to come and if so, how many?


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I think the time to stop the testing and quarantine regime is when we know the strains still going around aren't dangerous to people in more vulnerable groups.
> 
> I appreciate that this is slightly illogical because on that basis we need to make serious policy changes to reduce car use, as cars are a lading cause of death, but still...



Isn't 'flu' dangerous to certain groups?


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> I asked you because you used the phrase. If you used it for effect without actually knowing what you meant by it I'm not surprised. I didn't really expect you to answer.



So you can't work out what the phrase means?

You think a physical thing is going to fly through the air and actually lift me off the ground, or maybe it might mean that someone who is ill (as alluded to in this very thread) has to stay in bed due the severity of said illness?


----------



## C R (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Isn't 'flu' dangerous to certain groups?



But nowhere near as transmissible.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> I cannot see into the future and have as little scientific knowledge of this virus and epidemiology as you, so will not hazard a blind guess as to how long I will be prepared to test when necessary. YMMV



You test yourself now when you see fit without any scientific knowledge so what, if anything, would change your approach then?

Don't know what YMMV means.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (21 Apr 2022)

Recently I've been aware of several cases among my pals and those of Mrs 26. All have not been at all nastily ill and have recovered OK. Still clear in 26 Towers. We now await the next wave of even more transmissible variant.


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## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> You test yourself now when you see fit without any scientific knowledge so what, if anything, would change your approach then?
> 
> Don't know what YMMV means.



Don't need scientific knowledge to take a test.

For the time being I will continue to take tests if there is a reasonable chance I have the virus, or if I am asked to to visit care homes or health facilities. I don't know when I will stop but it will possibly be when when Covid strains stop being highly transmissible and potentially dangerous, and/or when the scientists say that tests no longer are necessary. I do not test regularly.

YMMV is an acronym used on cycling and other forums: "_Your mileage may vary is used to say that people may experience a particular thing in different ways."_


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> So you can't work out what the phrase means?
> 
> You think a physical thing is going to fly through the air and actually lift me off the ground, or maybe it might mean that someone who is ill (as alluded to in this very thread) has to stay in bed due the severity of said illness?



Of course I can work out what it means, but as it came from you I felt it better to be sure. Requests for specific answers usually require specific questions. One can be very ill, or too ill to work, without actually having to stay in bed. Personally, lying in bed when ill generally makes me feel even worse.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Don't need scientific knowledge to take a test.



Are you really this obtuse?


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> For the time being I will continue to take tests if there is a reasonable chance I have the virus, or if I am asked to to visit care homes or health facilities. I don't know when I will stop but it will possibly be when when Covid strains stop being highly transmissible and potentially dangerous, and/or when the scientists say that tests no longer are necessary. I do not test regularly.



There you go, not difficult is it. 

Thank you.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Of course I can work out what it means, but as it came from you I felt it better to be sure.



Why me specifically?


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Are you really this obtuse?





shep said:


> *You test yourself now when you see fit without any scientific knowledge* so what, if anything, would change your approach then?
> 
> Don't know what YMMV means.



Just having a laugh at your imprecision in wording your question.


----------



## Rusty Nails (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Why me specifically?



See the post before this.


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Well done, now back to my original query.
> 
> *How long do people see themselves doing this for and what might make them change their approach?*
> 
> ...


End of this year, at the earliest.

When it's over I can let the normal routine hinder what I might want to do/have planned.


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Isn't 'flu' dangerous to certain groups?


Aye, but as you've already said, you've never had flu. And from that I'm assuming you're not that bothered about flu either.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

classic33 said:


> Aye, but as you've already said, you've never had flu. And from that I'm assuming you're not that bothered about flu either.



I'm not no but no one regularly tests to see if they have that do they?


----------



## classic33 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> I'm not no but no one regularly tests to see if they have that do they?


No tests, but plenty get the flu jab every year. And have done so for years, no questions asked as to why.

From what I've read on here, this thread, it seems as though you'd know if you had flu, without taking a test. Never had it, so I'll take those who have said they have at their word.


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## vickster (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> I'm not no but no one regularly tests to see if they have that do they?



You can however be Covid-19 positive, asymptomatic and still highly infectious with coronavirus (as much so as symptomatic). 
Transmission of asymptomatic flu is much lower than symptomatic disease


----------



## figbat (21 Apr 2022)

Having stayed clear of it until now, despite our kids having had it, today I felt flu-like symptoms, took a test and it turned out positive. I guess it was inevitable although my wife has yet to test positive. I’m doing OK-ish - seriously fatigued, aching joints, slight headache but no cough to speak of and smell/taste unaffected. Not much fun, but could be worse.


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Isn't 'flu' dangerous to certain groups?




Indeed, but people who have 'flu generally know and aren't inclined to go out, so the equivalence you're trying suggest isn't really there.

I'm in a vulnerable group and I'm doing all I can to avoid infection. I don't think it's unfair to ask people to check if they're carrying a potentially dangerous virus, especially when they show symptoms. 

As an aside, the anti corona measures have probably been party responsible for my not catching a cold in two years, with all the compications I tend to have, which has been very pleasant.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Apr 2022)

shep said:


> Isn't 'flu' dangerous to certain groups?



Absolutely. In the last 5 years before Covid appeared, flu killed between 20,000 and 25,000 each year in the UK.


----------



## lazybloke (21 Apr 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Two things about flu.
> 
> 1. If you would rather live than die, you don't have flu.
> 
> 2. If you're not sure you have flu, you don't have flu.





mistyoptic said:


> Not forgetting, if you see someone drop a £20 in your garden and you can/want to go and pick it up, you don’t have flu


Not enough people understand how severe and debilitating flu can be. I'm with you so far.

But it's very wrong to suggest that flu can't be a mild disease.

If you tell people their mild symptoms can't possibly be flu, they might behave in a manner more likely to spread it.
Better if they understand the risk* of them having an infectious and potentially fatal respiratory disease?

The statements above are as wrong as saying "If you're not on a ventilator, you don't have covid".

*Edited to clarify the risk is to others; eg infecting clinically vulnerable friends/family/etc.


----------



## PK99 (21 Apr 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Absolutely. In the last 5 years before Covid appeared, flu killed between 20,000 and 25,000 each year in the UK.



BMJ article disputes that figure
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514

_Are there more deaths from flu than from covid?_​_*Data from the Office for National Statistics show that in England and Wales the number of deaths from influenza was 1598 in 2018 and 1223 in 2019.**1* This is way below the annual deaths from covid-19, which at the current rate of around 800 deaths a week in England and Wales equates to more than 40 000 a year.2

Disagreements have emerged on social media because some commentators have quoted much higher figures for annual deaths from flu.3 *The reason for the discrepancy, as highlighted by the health systems researcher Dan Goyal,4 is that flu and pneumonia deaths are often reported together, including by the ONS itself. When pneumonia deaths are included with flu, the number would be 29 516 in 2018 and 26 398 in 2019.* This is obviously closer to covid death numbers, though still less, according to current trends._


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Indeed, but people who have 'flu generally know and aren't inclined to go out, so the equivalence you're trying suggest isn't really there.



I don’t think we can draw that conclusion as flu isn’t something tested for. It may be like corona in terms there’s a wide range of reactions to it from deathly hallows to asymptomatic.


----------



## shep (21 Apr 2022)

Rusty Nails said:


> Just having a laugh at your imprecision in wording your question.



Do you somehow see yourself as superior on this forum?

If you do then take it from me, you're failing badly.

You know full well what I was asking and your bullsh*t just makes you look like a petty pedant.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Apr 2022)

PK99 said:


> BMJ article disputes that figure
> https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514
> 
> _Are there more deaths from flu than from covid?_​_*Data from the Office for National Statistics show that in England and Wales the number of deaths from influenza was 1598 in 2018 and 1223 in 2019.**1* This is way below the annual deaths from covid-19, which at the current rate of around 800 deaths a week in England and Wales equates to more than 40 000 a year.2
> ...



Not sure where those figures come from.
This https://assets.publishing.service.g...tory_viruses_in_the_UK_2018_to_2019-FINAL.pdf
Suggests much higher figures (though a lot more variable than I thought)
Page 51:


----------



## Julia9054 (22 Apr 2022)

Day 5. Bored with this crap now.


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## figbat (22 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Day 5. Bored with this crap now.
> View attachment 641242



I’m only part way through day 2 and bored of it! Was hoping it was just a 24 hour thing and would be back it it today but no.


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## Julia9054 (22 Apr 2022)

figbat said:


> I’m only part way through day 2 and bored of it! Was hoping it was just a 24 hour thing and would be back it it today but no.



Yeah - I'm not really ill as such, just knackered. I've had worse colds but it's dragging on longer than a cold.


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## figbat (22 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Yeah - I'm not really ill as such, just knackered. I've had worse colds but it's dragging on longer than a cold.



Exactly the same here - a tiny sniffle and occasional cough but mostly just real fatigue; sometimes I can’t even be bothered to sit up and reach for a drink.


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## ColinJ (22 Apr 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Yeah - I'm not really ill as such, just knackered. I've had worse colds but it's dragging on longer than a cold.



Haven't you ever had bad colds that lasted 10 days or so? I have. Anyway... GWS with this!

It is 3.5 weeks since I tested positive for Covid. At the time I wondered where I had caught it because the only person I had seen the week before didn't have it. Apart from her, it would be just walking past a few people in a relatively quiet supermarket (I avoid busy times). It struck me yesterday though that my positive Covid test came 4 days after I had a blood test at my local health centre. I reckon that is the most likely source.

I am back on my bike but don't have much oomph. Some of that is due to lack of fitness, but I feel a few lingering effects from Covid. I still look a bit ill when I look in the mirror. Maybe that is because I haven't been out much in the past month and need to get some fresh air, and sun on my skin.


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## Julia9054 (22 Apr 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Haven't you ever had bad colds that lasted 10 days or so? I have. Anyway... GWS with this!
> 
> It is 3.5 weeks since I tested positive for Covid. At the time I wondered where I had caught it because the only person I had seen the week before didn't have it. Apart from her, it would be just walking past a few people in a relatively quiet supermarket (I avoid busy times). It struck me yesterday though that my positive Covid test came 4 days after I had a blood test at my local health centre. I reckon that is the most likely source.
> 
> I am back on my bike but don't have much oomph. Some of that is due to lack of fitness, but I feel a few lingering effects from Covid. I still look a bit ill when I look in the mirror. Maybe that is because I haven't been out much in the past month and need to get some fresh air, and sun on my skin.



I rarely get colds where the feeling crap bit lasts more than a couple of days luckily.
The only indoors place I had been in the 5 days before my positive test was a couple of hours in a not very crowded pub. 
Unlucky really, given that school kids have been coughing on me for two years and I also didn't catch it from Al when he had it. 
Glad to hear you are feeling better and back on your bike.


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## Ajax Bay (25 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> Or if I have symptoms - especially if I’m due to see elderly parents, vulnerable friends


Not picking on you @vickster but these two quotes caught my eye.
If you have symptoms and test negative do you then, thus reassured, go ahead with that sort of visit? What if it's flu? Pre-March 2020 would your behaviour (go/no go threshold) be any different?


vickster said:


> Transmission of asymptomatic flu is much lower than symptomatic disease


Source? Are the transmission vectors very different between COVID-19 and 'flu'?


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## vickster (25 Apr 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Not picking on you @vickster but these two quotes caught my eye.
> If you have symptoms and test negative do you then, thus reassured, go ahead with that sort of visit? What if it's flu? Pre-March 2020 would your behaviour (go/no go threshold) be any different?
> 
> Source? Are the transmission vectors very different between COVID-19 and 'flu'?



If I had cold symptoms bad enough to test, no I would not see elderly parents.
… There was an ncbi paper that Google threw up that indicated that asymptomatic flu is less infectious than symptomatic. Was not a comparison to Covid. 
But Covid is transmissible when asymptomatic


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## KnittyNorah (26 Apr 2022)

vickster said:


> But Covid is transmissible when asymptomatic



It's the _known_ and _recognised_ transmissibility of C-19 when a- or pre-symptomatic which causes me to continue to be wary in many of my behaviours. 
I'm pretty healthy for my age - current (healing) shingles not withstanding! - and I want to stay that way, TYVM. But at almost 75, living the rest of my life with long covid is not something I intend to do if I can take reasonable steps to avoid it - which I have done and continue to do, and I prefer not to be responsible for 'supplying' it unknowingly to anyone else either.


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## DCLane (26 Apr 2022)

I'm back at Lanzarote airport a week after the Spanish reduced their COVID restrictions and there is a stark change in behaviour.

Shops/restaurants I was in last Thursday/Friday, along with the airport, have gone from strict face-covering wearers but "no obrigado" to almost none. That type of shift, particularly from the hygiene-enthusiastic Spanish, has surprised me. But maybe not; it could be that as a tourist island they're reflecting British travellers. The Germans tend to be few wearing face-coverings here, wearing white dust-mask type ones.

I still am, mainly because son no. 2 has international races coming up and he needs me to take him.


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2022)

Like around 5-10% of people I see (wild guess) in London I still wear a mask in crowded indoor circumstances (trains, tubes, art galleries ...). Not because I'm necessarily convinced of their efficacy but because I'm not convinced otherwise*

Anyway ... you would have thought that the withdrawal of the regs would have seen the instant death of the "chin mask". Not a bit of it. I often see people with their chins securely masked, protecting them against the dreaded Chin Variant.

* Helmet debate anyone?


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## Ajax Bay (26 Apr 2022)

Take care @DCLane Daughter caught it there after her race in mid March. Thankfully recovered and dancing the big dance in Utah in 11 days, at the front end.


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## DCLane (26 Apr 2022)

@Ajax Bay - thanks and caution noted. Face coverings on in crowded areas throughout the journey and hopefully we'll be OK.


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## PK99 (27 Apr 2022)

I'm up in Settle this week and see far more masks than home in London


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)

Only a matter of time , no idea where I’ve picked it up from but it’s landed.

Picked up from Shops I’m guessing .


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2022)

been waiting 3 weeks now to see my dentist for toothache, not had a check up since 2019 .Phoned 111 and all they gave me was numbers of local dentists .
someone i work with actually got taken off his dentists list and had to wait more than a month for an extraction


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)

Yep I’ve not been to my dentist since before pandemic. Got a feeling I might have been removed . Wife’s dentist contacted her mine not a word ! Both NHS


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yep I’ve not been to my dentist since before pandemic. Got a feeling I might have been removed . Wife’s dentist contacted her mine not a word ! Both NHS



spent most of the morning trying to get through, finally got into the queue for about half and hour to be told no one to speak too


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## vickster (6 Jun 2022)

cyberknight said:


> spent most of the morning trying to get through, finally got into the queue for about half and hour to be told no one to speak too



Do you have an urgent dental care centre / dental A&E anywhere locally? Apparently you can access these by calling 111 to be triaged

You can search for NHS services in Derbyshire here
https://www.derbyandderbyshireccg.nhs.uk/your-health-services/find-your-nearest-nhs-service/


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> Do you have an urgent dental care centre / dental A&E anywhere locally? Apparently you can access these by calling 111 to be triaged
> 
> You can search for NHS services in Derbyshire here
> https://www.derbyandderbyshireccg.nhs.uk/your-health-services/find-your-nearest-nhs-service/



thats what i did , they just gave me a list to phone , managed to get in next week with mine on a call back just need to get the time off work !


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## wiggydiggy (6 Jun 2022)

I had stopped testing regularly, but a change in circumstances means if I want to visit certain relatives now I'll be testing again as a courtesy to them and for my own piece of mind (I'd never forgive myself if I unknowingly passed on Corona).

Work we had some news at last about hybrid/working practices and they have sensibly allowed local decisions makers (my own boss and their immediate management) the final say. We're really not a one size fit all organisation and whilst I don't mind arranging now a regular day(s) in I'm please I think I can continue mostly WFH*, I know not all employers have been that understanding.

*Decision has not been made yet what I am doing, I hope I'm not jinxing it by making assumptions!


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## C R (6 Jun 2022)

cyberknight said:


> thats what i did , they just gave me a list to phone , managed to get in next week with mine on a call back just need to get the time off work !



When I lived in Manchester the dental hospital used to have a walk in clinic, don't they do that any more?


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## Slick (6 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Only a matter of time , no idea where I’ve picked it up from but it’s landed.
> 
> Picked up from Shops I’m guessing .


I was going to ask why 3 tests, but then I wondered, why test at all. Unless of course you are around the vulnerable.


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## vickster (6 Jun 2022)

Slick said:


> I was going to ask why 3 tests, but then I wondered, why test at all. Unless of course you are around the vulnerable.



Symptoms?


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)

Slick said:


> I was going to ask why 3 tests, but then I wondered, why test at all. Unless of course you are around the vulnerable.



I’ve felt rubbish and knew something was up. So wanted to make sure it maybe wasn’t Covid ?! If not going into work would have been an easier decision. However I’ve also been in contact with my 84yr old mother and 73yr old MIL .


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## Electric_Andy (6 Jun 2022)

We've got to be in the office at least 3 days a week now. No masks or testing required. My Gran is in a home and I think they've stopped the requirement for testing before visiting now (or at least they did for the Jubilee party they had at the weekend). Luckily I have some kits left over, because we're meeting someone vulnerable next week for dinner, and we've been asked to test as a safety/courtesy before we arrive.
Since the new year, 4 or 5 people in my extended family have had C19, luckily the worst was not hospitalised but felt really bad for a week. others have just had mild cold symptoms.

Most surprising was my Uncle who had a heart bipass a few years ago and nearly died...and is now suffering with Arthritis which has also spread to his organs...he had C19 (was only jabbed once due to medication) and did not have to be hospitalized. Lucky really


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## DCLane (6 Jun 2022)

SWMBO went to Northern Ireland over the weekend, partly to visit her mother-in-law in a care home. However, some of the residents and staff have Covid in the care home so the visit couldn't happen.


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## Ajax Bay (6 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> I’ve felt rubbish and knew something was up. So wanted to make sure it maybe wasn’t Covid ?! If not going into work would have been an easier decision. However I’ve also been in contact with my 84yr old mother and 73yr old MIL .


It's tricky, isn't it. I have a nonogenarian mother to visit/stay overnight with regularly and a 'senior' lady who is secretive about her age whom I occasionally visit (children are far away) - I discovered at the weekend she is over 100!
But I'm not going to test to see if I have some infectious disease or another. If I'm unwell I won't visit (and they'll understand): I've adopted this approach since well before 2020. Work is more difficult. MTFU has been generally been my mantra unless too rotten, but I, and I suggest very many, will moderate and reduce the threshold of 'too sick to go into the office', especially if the mechanisms are in place to wfh without much reduction of efficiency. I think this point is worth employers and managers considering carefully: take a 'whole work population' approach. They (I) need to discourage MTFUers from bringing any lurgy in and spreading it.
I have a small stock of LFTs but struggling to envisage when I'd use one.


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## PK99 (6 Jun 2022)

Booked in for Jab#5 on Friday


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> It's tricky, isn't it. I have a nonogenarian mother to visit/stay overnight with regularly and a 'senior' lady who is secretive about her age whom I occasionally visit (children are far away) - I discovered at the weekend she is over 100!
> But I'm not going to test to see if I have some infectious disease or another. If I'm unwell I won't visit (and they'll understand): I've adopted this approach since well before 2020. Work is more difficult. MTFU has been generally been my mantra unless too rotten, but I, and I suggest very many, will moderate and reduce the threshold of 'too sick to go into the office', especially if the mechanisms are in place to wfh without much reduction of efficiency. I think this point is worth employers and managers considering carefully: take a 'whole work population' approach. They (I) need to discourage MTFUers from bringing any lurgy in and spreading it.
> I have a small stock of LFTs but struggling to envisage when I'd use one.



If I’d had decent sleep last two nights I’d have been in at work ! But I felt totally dead on my feet this morning. However perking up a bit now .


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## Slick (6 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> Symptoms?



Maybe different North or South of the border, but its my understanding that if you have symptoms or don't feel well, you stay in the house without the need for testing. If you feel OK, you carry on as normal.


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## vickster (6 Jun 2022)

Slick said:


> Maybe different North or South of the border, but its my understanding that if you have symptoms or don't feel well, you stay in the house without the need for testing. If you feel OK, you carry on as normal.



No I meant maybe he decided to test as he had symptoms


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## cyberknight (6 Jun 2022)

C R said:


> When I lived in Manchester the dental hospital used to have a walk in clinic, don't they do that any more?



The walk in clinic you have to call 111 to access for an appointment assuming it's open , around here the GP are still doing phone consultation


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## Slick (6 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> No I meant maybe he decided to test as he had symptoms



Which was why I asked the question as there is no reason to test anymore if you have symptoms let alone 3 times. He answered why he did it, which is fair enough. We still need to protect the vulnerable.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)

Slick said:


> Which was why I asked the question as there is no reason to test anymore if you have symptoms let alone 3 times. He answered why he did it, which is fair enough. We still need to protect the vulnerable.



Dunno what the big deal is ? I tested as I had access to tests ? I was feeling rubbish and had already decided I was not going to work. The positive test however means I made the right decision.


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## Slick (6 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Dunno what the big deal is ? I tested as I had access to tests ? I was feeling rubbish and had already decided I was not going to work. The positive test however means I made the right decision.



I honestly wasn't making a big deal of anything. I asked, you answered and I answered others who questioned me.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jun 2022)




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## Ajax Bay (6 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> I tested as I had access to tests ? I was feeling rubbish and had already decided I was not going to work.


I too am not making a big deal about it, and you've read my take (above).
Taking an LFT or even 3 LFTs is a personal choice, if one has access to such tests. I suppose I'm asking how you felt the data (either positive or negative) affected your subsequent action, and whether you would expect others to do the same (ie to test), in the face of feeling unwell. Does a positive test help you justify to yourself or to your employer staying away from work? Would your or their attitude change if the result was negative?


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## MrGrumpy (15 Jun 2022)

Well a week and bit on and if I’m honest I feel worse than last week . Been left with a chesty cough. Sinus infection. It’s just f…in brilliant . Hopefully these are temporary, like my taste and it all clears up. However currently I feel quite wiped out and I’d say my symptoms last week were mild !


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## newts (15 Jun 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Well a week and bit on and if I’m honest I feel worse than last week . Been left with a chesty cough. Sinus infection. It’s just f…in brilliant . Hopefully these are temporary, like my taste and it all clears up. However currently I feel quite wiped out and I’d say my symptoms last week were mild!


It's a very good idea to keep a close eye on secondary infections, just after covid to make sure they don't escalate.


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## lazybloke (15 Jun 2022)

My daughter got a day off school on Monday, after being up all night with nausea - a reaction to her 1st booster the day before.
She's only 13 but gets the same entitlement as the over 75s due to her medical history; which means she can have a 2nd booster in September, and who knows, maybe a 3rd booster in December. Lucky pin cushion.

My son has his 2nd primary jab in Feb or March, and just become eligible for his booster - he'll have that once his finishes his GCSE exams (next week).


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## Alex321 (15 Jun 2022)

Just changed my vote 

Tested positive this morning.

Very mild symptoms so far (triple jabbed), just a light cough, and a bit achy all over. If it weren't for the fact that several of my Morris Dancing colleagues tested positive on Monday (and I was with them Saturday), I might not even have bothered testing.

A few choice words were uttered when I saw that second line coming up.


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## Slick (15 Jun 2022)

I started feeling a bit under the weather on Sunday so tested but came up negative. Didn't think too much of it as there seems to be a few different bugs doing the rounds. A few more typical symptoms arrived Tuesday, so tested again, but again it was negative. Mrs Slick said she was now feeling the start of a sore throat and wanted a test and immediately tested positive so I retested and also finally tested positive at the 3rd time of asking. Both absolutely fine and looking forward to some box sets.


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## midlife (20 Jun 2022)

It finally got me! Felt a little bit under the weather this weekend but lateral flow negative. Went from feeling under the weather to not very well this lunchtime..... lateral flow positive straight away 

Been sent home from work and isolating in eldest sons old bedroom.


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## MrGrumpy (20 Jun 2022)

I’m hoping I’m slowly improving with the after effects . Yesterday I crashed out on my bed afte the dog walk . Slept 4.5hrs  . Was back in bed back of 9 and slept most of the night ! The tiredness I hope goes soon . Cough has gotten better but sinus sheet is still as bad ! Yellow snot is bogging .


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## Slick (20 Jun 2022)

Obviously we are all different, but the guidance in Scotland remains at keep out the road for 5 days from first symptoms when dealing with fully vaccinated people, although you may need to leave it a bit longer before mixing with vulnerable individuals. 

Probably about right in my case, as I felt just a bit under the weather for a couple of days before making a full recovery quite quickly. Haven't tackled a decent run on the bike yet, but don't think it will be an issue as I never felt any breathlessness or a number of other symptoms like loss of taste or smell. Hopefully that just means that the vaccine is working a treat.


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## Alex321 (20 Jun 2022)

Still testing very faintly positive today, but I have been out on the bike a couple of times (solo, not stopping other than junctions, so not really breaching isolation).

Here in Wales all legal restrictions have been lifted, but guidance is still to self isolate for 5 days from first symptoms (or positive test if earlier), and then until you have two successive days with clear test, or 10 days max. From the end of the month even that is changing to just "Stay home if you feel unwell".

Two short rides, of about 9.5 miles. Yesterday was hard work even though I was taking it easy, and was very slow (14.3mph). Today, different route but was much more comfortable, able to push on a bit, and finished with an average of 17.6mph. I could have done more but my wife asked me to make it a short one.

So physically, I think I'm pretty well over it, and the worst days were just like a bad cold, presumably thanks to the vaccines. And I fully epect tomorrow and Wednesday to be my two successive days with clear tests. I would expect that if I tested again this evening it would probably be clear, the one at lunchtime was VERY faint.


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## midlife (21 Jun 2022)

midlife said:


> It finally got me! Felt a little bit under the weather this weekend but lateral flow negative. Went from feeling under the weather to not very well this lunchtime..... lateral flow positive straight away
> 
> Been sent home from work and isolating in eldest sons old bedroom.



And now the rest of the household have tested positive


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jun 2022)

Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?



Within the past 2 days alone I've received news of two work colleagues (one in the UK, one in the US) and a friend testing positive.


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## Alex321 (21 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?



Yeah, I'd included that in my vote from a few months after the start of the pandemic. Since when there have been probably a few dozen people I've known personally who have had it. 

Only finally included option 1 as well last week though.


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## classic33 (21 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?


I know plenty who tested positive, since this thread was started. The option to vote twice isn't there.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> I know plenty who tested positive, since this thread was started. The option to vote twice isn't there.



The option to change your vote is


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jun 2022)

I hadn't even noticed there was a poll


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## classic33 (21 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The option to change your vote is


And throughout, including up to last night, I've been clear, which is the best answer to the question.


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## Milzy (21 Jun 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Within the past 2 days alone I've received news of two work colleagues (one in the UK, one in the US) and a friend testing positive.



So? Are they going to die? No. Nobody cares about Covid anymore, we’ve moved on and won’t be fooled by their damaging lock downs ever again.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> So? Are they going to die? No. Nobody cares about Covid anymore, we’ve moved on and won’t be fooled by their damaging lock downs ever again.


If you don't care, why are you wasting your time reading this thread?


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## C R (21 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> So? Are they going to die? No. Nobody cares about Covid anymore, we’ve moved on and won’t be fooled by their damaging lock downs ever again.



How do you know that they won't die or suffer from long covid? Our neighbour's wife developed a heart rate arrhythmia after having covid during the first wave. She's gone from being perfectly healthy, running 5 to 10k every week to having to pace herself taking their dog for a walk and spending the night in A&E every couple of months.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> And throughout, including up to last night, I've been clear, which is the best answer to the question.



It’s one answer of many as the options in the poll aren’t mutually exclusive


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## Alex321 (21 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> So? Are they going to die? No. Nobody cares about Covid anymore, we’ve moved on and won’t be fooled by their damaging lock downs ever again.



If you keep on posting about it long enough, you might get careless and post something true. But not this time.


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## PaulSB (21 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?



I suggest it's just the function of a random poll on the web. I don't feel this poll shows anything other than a snapshot of a voter's position at the time. Although I'm reading it nothing made me consider changing my vote. Myself I can vote for all options in the poll.

As for people testing positive? Probably 100+ some extremely ill, others, like myself, just positive.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jun 2022)

The thread's over 2 years old. People don't normally change their votes on polls, so the results will be a bit of a mess, biased towards how things were 2 years ago.


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## Andy in Germany (21 Jun 2022)

Hey, look, there's a poll at the top...


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## classic33 (21 Jun 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Hey, look, there's a poll at the top...


Can't get anything past you, can we.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> So? Are they going to die? No. Nobody cares about Covid anymore, we’ve moved on and won’t be fooled by their damaging lock downs ever again.



I don't know what all the fuss is about either. Someone I work with caught it again last week, and had a few days off sick as he was feeling rather rough.
I feel fine but who knows, I might have got a dose of it too. Currently, they reckon about 1 in every 45 people has the virus at any one time. So when I was drinking in the pub at the weekend and it was very busy, there were statistically at least two, if not three people in there with the virus.

Obsessing about positive and negative tests is pointless. If you feel ill enough to stop your daily routine, then take it easy at home for a few days. If you don't feel that bad, then just carry on as normal. Some people with nothing more than a sniffle are turning it into an art form of how to take off the maximum amount of sick time at work without getting the sack. Everyone who does turn up for work then gets lumbered with the absentee's workload!


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## classic33 (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about either. Someone I work with caught it again last week, and had a few days off sick as he was feeling rather rough.
> I feel fine but who knows, I might have got a dose of it too. Currently, they reckon about 1 in every 45 people has the virus at any one time. So when I was drinking in the pub at the weekend and it was very busy, there were statistically at least two, if not three people in there with the virus.
> 
> Obsessing about positive and negative tests is pointless. If you feel ill enough to stop your daily routine, then take it easy at home for a few days. If you don't feel that bad, then just carry on as normal. Some people with nothing more than a sniffle are turning it into an art form of how to take off the maximum amount of sick time at work without getting the sack. Everyone who does turn up for work then gets lumbered with the absentee's workload!


Some of us have little choice on the checking side. Why do you persist in knocking those whose access to treatment* depends on a negative result?

It's still a notifiable disease, so how would you feel if they closed any pub that has people in that tested positive.

The "I'm alright jack" attitude is great if you only want to drink. Remember your previous posts on pubs being shut, when you said they should be open. Maybe take up home brewing and then you'd not have to worry about the pubs shutting.



*Test positive and you won't be seen, and then face the possibility of going to the back of the list, at best, removed at worst. And these appointments have restarted in only the last three months.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> It's still a notifiable disease, so how would you feel if they closed any pub that has people in that tested positive.



It’s only GPs that are required to notify. Since no one is going anywhere near their GP, and the vast majority are not testing, it’s only going to be notified if someone ends up in hospital. Contact tracing was a joke at the best of times, and will never be traced back to a pub.


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## lazybloke (22 Jun 2022)

My boss avoided covid for a v long time, but tested positive just over a week ago, then recovered...
.. but today was suddenly admitted to hospital with Atrial Fibrilliation.
Sounds like a tough fortnight. I wonder if the AF has any link with the Covid.


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## midlife (22 Jun 2022)

Eldest currently in Lancaster Royal tested positive, not sure he is exercising his art form to get the maximum time off work….


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## Julia9054 (22 Jun 2022)

With the customary caution about using “people I know” as a sample size, it does rather seem to be taking off again. Not at school though, pretty much covid free there (I think just about all the staff and kids have had it at least once).


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## Milzy (22 Jun 2022)

It’s all one big joke. My mother in law is 74 & has that fluid on the heart condition. Her doctor said don’t get vaccinated under any circumstances & she’s not even caught Covid once. 
It seems the media are always reporting young fit people suddenly dropping dead. What’s all that about?


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## MrGrumpy (22 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s all one big joke. My mother in law is 74 & has that fluid on the heart condition. Her doctor said don’t get vaccinated under any circumstances & she’s not even caught Covid once.
> It seems the media are always reporting young fit people suddenly dropping dead. What’s all that about?



Right ok !! It’s all one big joke ………


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## Ajax Bay (22 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> It seems the media are always reporting young fit people suddenly dropping dead. What’s all that about?


That's because young fit people sadly dying is very very unusual. Of all deaths reported in the last reporting period, about 2.5% had COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate. The median age for that cohort was 82 (about the same as for all deaths).
One cannot reasonably find these data 'a joke'.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Jun 2022)

I've always said it's up to those with a good reason to avoid catching the virus to minimise their exposure to the rest of us. No-one expects everyone else to shut themselves away and take incessant tests just in case they might be carrying any number of other viruses that always circulate around.
We dont have flu lockdowns or common cold lockdowns or measles lockdowns. Everyone who works or studies or socialises is constantly exposed to all sorts of germs, and we frequently get infected with something or other. It doesn't influence the way we live our lives, we just get on with it and if you catch something then you catch something. Why should the Coronavirus be treated differently to any other infectious illness? It's just another germ.


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## C R (22 Jun 2022)

lazybloke said:


> My boss avoided covid for a v long time, but tested positive just over a week ago, then recovered...
> .. but today was suddenly admitted to hospital with Atrial Fibrilliation.
> Sounds like a tough fortnight. I wonder if the AF has any link with the Covid.



That's what happened to our neighbour, seems to be one of the manifestations of long covid.


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## Milzy (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've always said it's up to those with a good reason to avoid catching the virus to minimise their exposure to the rest of us. No-one expects everyone else to shut themselves away and take incessant tests just in case they might be carrying any number of other viruses that always circulate around.
> We dont have flu lockdowns or common cold lockdowns or measles lockdowns. Everyone who works or studies or socialises is constantly exposed to all sorts of germs, and we frequently get infected with something or other. It doesn't influence the way we live our lives, we just get on with it and if you catch something then you catch something. Why should the Coronavirus be treated differently to any other infectious illness? It's just another germ.



Exactly. It came out of a lab maybe by accident or on purpose. Not from a bat in a wet market. 
Many are receiving compensation claims for damage done by the vaccines. People on here have been mind washed & double downed on all the B.S they’ve been fed.


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## classic33 (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've always said it's up to those with a good reason to avoid catching the virus to minimise their exposure to the rest of us. No-one expects everyone else to shut themselves away and take incessant tests just in case they might be carrying any number of other viruses that always circulate around.
> We dont have flu lockdowns or common cold lockdowns or measles lockdowns. Everyone who works or studies or socialises is constantly exposed to all sorts of germs, and we frequently get infected with something or other. It doesn't influence the way we live our lives, we just get on with it and if you catch something then you catch something. Why should the Coronavirus be treated differently to any other infectious illness? It's just another germ.


You are aware that should you test positive, public transport is out of bounds to you. And in parts of the country taxis and private hire vehicles.

Flu, you'd not be able to go into work from what I've heard and read. Never had it, so I've to base my defense against it on what I hear and read.

You'd have no problems with barstaff sneezing into your drink, food or over you as they served you. After all it is your responsibility to protect yourself from what others have/may have. Using your rules above. And should you come down with anything, there's no-one to blame but yourself.


As for a measles lockdown, I came across one 21 years ago. An entire street taped off, no one allowed out, only medical personal allowed in. As a street they did pretty well managing not being allowed out fairly well on their own. Relatives/family doing the shopping and dropping it at the tape.

These last 830 days have been a minor irritation for me, nowt else. Hospital appointments stopped, staff required elsewhere. Some staff being patients, some never making it back to staff status, never making it home even.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've always said it's up to those with a good reason to avoid catching the virus to minimise their exposure to the rest of us



A bit difficult for those of us who are vulnerable and essential workers, of course. I'm not sure how employers would react to that idea, or indeed how the general public would feel about headlines like:

"Hospitals at reduced capacity because vulnerable staff can't work, but this means pubs can stay open."

It sounds a bit like the arguments that cyclists shouldn't ride on roads so drivers don't have to worry about running them over.


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## classic33 (22 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> It’s only GPs that are required to notify. Since no one is going anywhere near their GP, and the vast majority are not testing, it’s only going to be notified if someone ends up in hospital. Contact tracing was a joke at the best of times, and will never be traced back to a pub.


Never said traced back to a pub.

There were people who'd tested positive still going to the pub. With a couldn't care less about anyone else attitude.


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## lazybloke (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> We dont have flu lockdowns or common cold lockdowns or measles lockdowns. Everyone who works or studies or socialises is constantly exposed to all sorts of germs, and we frequently get infected with something or other. It doesn't influence the way we live our lives, we just get on with it and if you catch something then you catch something. Why should the Coronavirus be treated differently to any other infectious illness? It's just another germ.


Covid is treated differently because no-one had immunity and it spread v rapidly. For most it's a mild disease, but it puts enough people in hospital that combined with the rapid spread, it would have overloaded the NHS and caused its collapse had it not been for lockdown and other restrictions. As it was, there's a backlog of several years for ops. 

that was the situation in 2020 and to some extent in 2021.
Today, enough people have gained some level of immunity to covid through past infection or through vaccination , that even if there's a spike in infections, there's less demand for NHS services, because it's not as severe any longer. Thus no need for lockdown currently.

In future, this may change, but booster vaccinations will probably keep things under control unless there's a nasty variant that pops up.

Measles -widespread vaccination means fewer deaths. Look back to last century, and there were millions of (global) deaths a year (similar to covid).
Flu- similar.


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## Alex321 (22 Jun 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've always said it's up to those with a good reason to avoid catching the virus to minimise their exposure to the rest of us. No-one expects everyone else to shut themselves away and take incessant tests just in case they might be carrying any number of other viruses that always circulate around.
> We dont have flu lockdowns or common cold lockdowns or measles lockdowns. Everyone who works or studies or socialises is constantly exposed to all sorts of germs, and we frequently get infected with something or other. It doesn't influence the way we live our lives, we just get on with it and if you catch something then you catch something. Why should the Coronavirus be treated differently to any other infectious illness? It's just another germ.



Because the rate of hospitalisations and deaths is far higher for Covid than for most other common illnesses.


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## Alex321 (22 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> Exactly. It came out of a lab maybe by accident or on purpose. Not from a bat in a wet market.


And your evidence for that? Oh, you have just included all the evidence there is in your post.

Not that I'm saying it didn't. There is no more evidence the other way as far as I can see. But neither you nor I have sufficient evidence to have any surety as to how it originated.




Milzy said:


> Many are receiving compensation claims for damage done by the vaccines. People on here have been mind washed & double downed on all the B.S they’ve been fed.



You are the main person spouting B.S. on here


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## Milzy (22 Jun 2022)

Alex321 said:


> And your evidence for that? Oh, you have just included all the evidence there is in your post.
> 
> Not that I'm saying it didn't. There is no more evidence the other way as far as I can see. But neither you nor I have sufficient evidence to have any surety as to how it originated.
> 
> ...



Jesus, how old are you? 
We will see.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> Never said traced back to a pub.
> 
> There were people who'd tested positive still going to the pub. With a couldn't care less about anyone else attitude.



“It's still a notifiable disease, so how would you feel if they closed any pub that has people in that tested positive.”

How will they close the pub, if it’s never traced back to it?


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Jun 2022)

Well, having avoided it since the beginning, I have tested positive today.
I think a colleague that I had a non socially distanced chat with on Saturday, infected me, but who knows.
I rode to work as usual this morning, but because I was feeling the chills on a warm day, I did a test before reporting for duty.
I work in a hospital, tests are freely available.
The 2 lines came up within a minute!
Truly, when I was working in hospitality, before the pandemic, I went to work feeling much, much worse than this.
I'm isolating for 5 days, because I wouldn't like to pass the virus on to someone vulnerable.
Thing is, I'm fine, but another person could end up in hospital.
Also, I am getting paid for being off work, but if I pass it to someone that gets really not well, and isn't paid from work for taking time off, this would be socially irresponsible, imo.


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## wiggydiggy (22 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Surprised that only a small percentage know someone who has tested positive. Even for those of us who’ve never caught it, we must surely know someone who has?





Ming the Merciless said:


> It’s only GPs that are required to notify. Since no one is going anywhere near their GP, and the vast majority are not testing, it’s only going to be notified if someone ends up in hospital. Contact tracing was a joke at the best of times, and will never be traced back to a pub.


I've voted now, didn't realise I could change it if I needed.

Met my first two time COVID victim recently, no long term effects thankfully but they do work in a hospital so possibly higher risk of catching it.

I'd agree as well testing has gone out the window for many, I'm still testing before visiting some people as their vulnerable and that will never change.

I've personally never tested positive, but I am quite anti social and WFH so probably low risk.


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## classic33 (22 Jun 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> “It's still a notifiable disease, so how would you feel if they closed any pub that has people in that tested positive.”
> 
> How will they close the pub, if it’s never traced back to it?


I've never come across a self service pub. They nearly all have bar staff, who are just as open to catching it as anyone else. Or are pub staff immune to it, thereby allowing them to continue serving those who want to drink and to hell with everyone else.


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## wiggydiggy (22 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> I've never come across a self service pub. They nearly all have bar staff, who are just as open to catching it as anyone else. Or are pub staff immune to it, thereby allowing them to continue serving those who want to drink and to hell with everyone else.



Years ago (10+) I did visit a place that had a pump at your table your could use to get beer. IIRC you pre-payed at the bar and your chosen beer was then available for the amount you bought.

I think it's never caught on as UK licensing is strict (supposedly!) on continuing to serve a drunk person alcohol.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> Many are receiving compensation claims for damage done by the [COVID-19] vaccines.


Could you share any reports that tell us that? I was unaware of this.


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## C R (22 Jun 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Could you share any reports that tell us that? I was unaware of this.



I saw a report of a claim yesterday, but just one claim.


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## wiggydiggy (23 Jun 2022)

C R said:


> I saw a report of a claim yesterday, but just one claim.



This one? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-61885899.amp 

She is complaining (rightly) about the amount received which I do agree is innadequate, she maintains she is not anti vaccination.

To lose someone 6 days after becoming ill when they were together 20+ years is heartbreaking.


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## C R (23 Jun 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> This one? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-61885899.amp
> 
> She is complaining (rightly) about the amount received which I do agree is innadequate, she maintains she is not anti vaccination.
> 
> To lose someone 6 days after becoming ill when they were together 20+ years is heartbreaking.



That's the one, but it is just one, not the several implied further up thread.


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## Alex321 (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> Jesus, how old are you?


Almost certainly a lot older than you.



Milzy said:


> We will see.



We have seen. You appear to have had your eyes shut for the last 2.5 years.


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Almost certainly a lot older than you.
> 
> 
> 
> We have seen. You appear to have had your eyes shut for the last 2.5 years.



It’s you that’s got your head well buried in the sand.


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## Slick (23 Jun 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Well, having avoided it since the beginning, I have tested positive today.
> I think a colleague that I had a non socially distanced chat with on Saturday, infected me, but who knows.
> I rode to work as usual this morning, but because I was feeling the chills on a warm day, I did a test before reporting for duty.
> I work in a hospital, tests are freely available.
> ...


Sorry to hear that Pat, but I did the same as you for the same reason as you. Good decision I reckon. 

Take care. 👍


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## vickster (23 Jun 2022)

C R said:


> That's the one, but it is just one, not the several implied further up thread.



He actually used the word ‘many’ without any quantification or evidence


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## C R (23 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> He actually used the word ‘many’ without any quantification or evidence



In their defence, I did some digging, and there are about 100 claims to the vaccine injury fund in the UK for verified side effects of the COVID vaccines. Timely BBC piece here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61898694

Note how the affected people interviewed are at pains to distance themselves from anti vaccine interpretations.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jun 2022)

classic33 said:


> I've never come across a self service pub. They nearly all have bar staff, who are just as open to catching it as anyone else. Or are pub staff immune to it, thereby allowing them to continue serving those who want to drink and to hell with everyone else.



Yea but the point is, who is notifying the health authorities to close a pub down? Sure bar staff may catch it, but equally they may do that in other contexts.


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> He actually used the word ‘many’ without any quantification or evidence



You’re one of the better forum members & I can show you evidence but it’s pointless. I feel you’ll always be skeptical & will never allow yourself to become fully awake.


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## vickster (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re one of the better forum members & I can show you evidence but it’s pointless. I feel you’ll always be skeptical & will never allow yourself to become fully awake.



How many people do you personally know who have died of/with Covid? It's not a mild disease for everyone, even if you just felt a bit rough for a few days and have had no lasting effects (as was also the case for myself having been vaccinated).

If you want to make claims, fill your boots, but if you want them to be taken seriously, you need to provide credible evidence (not BS from quacks making money from claims on YouTube as an example). 

12BN doses of SARS Cov-2 vaccine have been given globally...how many of those have resulted in a claim for damages as a result globally - is it truly 'many' or actually a tiny tiny minority? How does that proportion compare to the data on side effects reported from the clinical trials and post-launch surveillance/RWE? No one ever said there are none

And I'm not flattered by your flattery I'm afraid


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> How many people do you personally know who have died of/with Covid? It's not a mild disease for everyone, even if you just felt a bit rough for a few days and have had no lasting effects (as was also the case for myself having been vaccinated).
> 
> If you want to make claims, fill your boots, but if you want them to be taken seriously, you need to provide credible evidence (not BS from quacks making money from claims on YouTube as an example).
> 
> ...



You raise a very good question. I’ll try & dig something up. 😘


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## Wobblers (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re one of the better forum members & I can show you evidence but it’s pointless. I feel you’ll always be skeptical & will never allow yourself to become fully awake.



Sigh.

There have been tens of millions of people vaccinated in the UK alone. Roughly speaking, there is of the order of a one in a million chance of having a severe side effect (blood clot or myocarditis). Given the size of the vaccinated population, adverse outcomes are inevitable, regrettably. This _does not_ mean that there is some sort of conspiracy - it's all there in the published medical literature should you wish to look it up (MedCram and Dr John Campbell both also covered it very well on YouTube if you want something rather more accessible).

Note that the chances of suffering a severe blood clot from Covid are about 1000 times higher than the vaccine. It's also associated with cardiac damage / myocarditis (and I see that there's a comment above about someone coming down with atrial fibrillation shortly after a Covid infection). In short, Covid is far more likely to cause serious complications than the vaccine - and that applies even to those who are young and healthy.


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2022)

Wobblers said:


> Sigh.
> 
> There have been tens of millions of people vaccinated in the UK alone. Roughly speaking, there is of the order of a one in a million chance of having a severe side effect (blood clot or myocarditis). Given the size of the vaccinated population, adverse outcomes are inevitable, regrettably. This _does not_ mean that there is some sort of conspiracy - it's all there in the published medical literature should you wish to look it up (MedCram and Dr John Campbell both also covered it very well on YouTube if you want something rather more accessible).
> 
> Note that the chances of suffering a severe blood clot from Covid are about 1000 times higher than the vaccine. It's also associated with cardiac damage / myocarditis (and I see that there's a comment above about someone coming down with atrial fibrillation shortly after a Covid infection). In short, Covid is far more likely to cause serious complications than the vaccine - and that applies even to those who are young and healthy.



I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.


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## vickster (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.



Most yes but by no means all
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...icles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths


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## Slick (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.


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## Wobblers (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.



That's not quite the case. There still is a benefit to getting vaccinated even if you are young and healthy - you're still significantly more likely to die or suffer serious consequences from Covid than from any of the vaccines. (Again, you'll find proper risk analyses of this in the medical literature.) The benefit certainly isn't as large as it is for older people, but it's still there. One thing that hasn't been factored into this risk/benefit calculation is Long Covid - which is still a significant risk to the young (over 1%). Vaccination reduces the risk of getting Long Covid -and applies to everyone. This is a very significant benefit in its own right, and I'd argue that even if you're young and healthy, it's still very worthwhile getting vaccinated.


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## Andy in Germany (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.



You could say that about a lot of illnesses, it doesn't mean they aren't dangerous to other people, nor does it mean you can't carry the illness to other people.



Milzy said:


> My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now



You mean it is spreading to motor vehicles? now that is a serious mutation.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jun 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> You mean it is spreading to motor vehicles?



It’s mutated in to Carvid Porsche variant


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## classic33 (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now.* I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. *It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.


I've had one, and don't want any more, and a reaction after. I've also had painkillers and had a reaction. The last one, I felt the needle, and got as far as asking what were they using. The effect was immediate, stopped the heart. They tried shocking me to get it going again, it started a seizure. When the seizure stopped, they'd to go back to manual means to get the heart going.

Therefore, on the basis of what happened, as outlined above, I'm saying don't take any more painkillers. It's happened twice in A&E*, once in a dentists chair**, and whilst in hospital. On your next trip to the dentist, no painkillers, before or after. 

After all, using the logic supplied by yourself, it's happened to me it may happen to you.


*Handy place to be when it happens.
**I was carried out to the ambulance, the dentist was "walking wounded".


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.


Back in February 2020, before the Coronavirus was declared a pandemic, in London a 19 year old, fit and healthy, chef died of heart failure.
He had the Corona.
The GP practice told him to stay home, he would be fine.
After 3 days he got worse, he was dead on the paramedics arrival.
This is not hearsay, the boy was the nephew of my colleague, his family had to wait almost a year to find out the cause of death.
Months later, when the papers published the pictures of the first victims with that controversial picture (remember), the boy's photo was there, my colleague was in tears.
I appreciate that this example could be an exception in the average deaths caused by the virus, we will never know if it could have been avoided.
One young man I know, late 20's when he got the virus in 2020, he was fit, a runner, no underlining conditions, doesn't smoke.
He was not vaccinated because at the time because the vaccines were not rolled out for his age group.
He was very ill (albeit for a short time), long corona stayed with him for over a year.
And there's me, almost 60, not lean , I smoke, the only exercise I do is to cycle commute.
Yet, I tested positive yesterday (at work, cycled there and back), spent all day weeding the garden today, don't feel ill at all.
We just don't know how each one of us is going to be affected until we get it.


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## Milzy (24 Jun 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Back in February 2020, before the Coronavirus was declared a pandemic, in London a 19 year old, fit and healthy, chef died of heart failure.
> He had the Corona.
> The GP practice told him to stay home, he would be fine.
> After 3 days he got worse, he was dead on the paramedics arrival.
> ...



There’s more people dying of other things though. Another example of media BS here.


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## Milzy (24 Jun 2022)

vickster said:


> Most yes but by no means all
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...icles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths



Not accurate though.


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## Alex321 (24 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> Not accurate though.



More likely an underestimate than over, but no such figures are ever 100% accurate.


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## Ajax Bay (24 Jun 2022)

A good summary on the current situation in UK - the first 10 minutes of today's Indie Sage 24 June: 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pC_bOu4fA

Bottom line: ONS estimates of infection 1 in 40 in England, 1 in 21 in Scotland.
About half are now the Omicron BA4 and BA5 strains, and increasing, taking over from BA2. Hospitalisations increasing, from a low level: about half are with rather than because of COVID-19. No significant increase in MV bed occupancy, and no increase (yet) in 'COVID-19 mention' death rates (smoothed for Jubilee PH effects).


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## DCLane (28 Jun 2022)

After 2 years of being careful I was feeling exhausted yesterday evening and woke up shivering a while ago. Tested positive and hopefully no-one I've been near will catch it from me.

Looks like I caught it either at the CiCLE Junior race or on Wednesday's ferry to Ireland as they were the only times I was near-ish to others.

Currently feeling  and


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## Ajax Bay (28 Jun 2022)

My nonogenarian mother has caught it (for the first time). Her symptoms (first appearing Saturday) seem light at present: sister with her has tested -ve (having had it twice this year). I am, of course, crossing all my fingers for her (took her to her second booster in December). I was due to go and stay with her for a few days on Saturday (giving my sister time to get away) but looks like that'll slide a few days, providing she doesn't get worse.


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## cougie uk (28 Jun 2022)

Milzy said:


> I like this analysis. If you’re young and fit there’s no need to have the vaccine IMO. My cycling buddy Mr.Burrows works in a car home so he’s had 4 now. I’ve had 2 & I don’t want anymore. It’s a fact that most deaths were obese older people & people with pre existing health issues.



Yes tell this to my pal who lost his fit and healthy wife to covid. No health issue before that. 
I haven't had Covid yet but am happy to get the jabs as and when they're advised.


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## DCLane (1 Jul 2022)

Son no. 2 has tested positive this morning, although only has mild symptoms. This doesn't surprise me as we were together for his Irish races last week and only kept separate once my positive test happened on Tuesday.

It means he can't do a big UCI race in Belgium next week and misses any meet-up to celebrate his 18th on Monday 😢

I'm struggling and had a trip to hospital for intervention Weds/Thurs as I'm asthmatic and was finding breathing difficult. Still feeling absolutely exhausted with a high temperature.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> Son no. 2 has tested positive this morning, although only has mild symptoms. This doesn't surprise me as we were together for his Irish races last week and only kept separate once my positive test happened on Tuesday.
> 
> It means he can't do a big UCI race in Belgium next week and misses any meet-up to celebrate his 18th on Monday 😢
> 
> I'm struggling and had a trip to hospital for intervention Weds/Thurs as I'm asthmatic and was finding breathing difficult. Still feeling absolutely exhausted with a high temperature.



As a fellow Asthmatic I understand the feeling. I hope the symptoms improve soon.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> I'm struggling and had a trip to hospital for intervention Weds/Thurs as I'm asthmatic and was finding breathing difficult. Still feeling absolutely exhausted with a high temperature.



Hope interventions are effective and you make a steady recovery.


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## byegad (1 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> Son no. 2 has tested positive this morning, although only has mild symptoms. This doesn't surprise me as we were together for his Irish races last week and only kept separate once my positive test happened on Tuesday.
> 
> It means he can't do a big UCI race in Belgium next week and misses any meet-up to celebrate his 18th on Monday 😢
> 
> I'm struggling and had a trip to hospital for intervention Weds/Thurs as I'm asthmatic and was finding breathing difficult. Still feeling absolutely exhausted with a high temperature.



Yes, I do hope they get you sorted, as an Asthmatic myself I know the feeling of having to fight for the next breath. It's truly terrifying, and unforgettable. 

My wife has a different lung problem, so we are still being ultra-cautious.


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## fossyant (1 Jul 2022)

Blimey @DCLane hope you are on the road to recovery. BIL so far has avoided it, as his wife currently has it. He's got a dodgy ticker, so is keeping away from her.


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## Ajax Bay (1 Jul 2022)

Best of luck, David.
Indie SAGE is meeting as I type and the update is the first few minutes here:

View: https://youtu.be/a3ymXVpE8Lc


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## DCLane (1 Jul 2022)

@Ajax Bay - SWMBO said similar yesterday from her Covid medical colleagues. It appears to be a highly infections pair of variants (the BA 4/5 ones) and there's less tracking. What the symptoms have done is confirm to me I had Covid back in February 2020 before it was properly understood, having caught it off son no. 1 as I visited him when he was unwell with a food parcel.

I've been doing daily tests and Day 4's looking worse than days 1-3


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## Landsurfer (1 Jul 2022)

It amazes me how Covid Fanatics never seem to get ill with colds, flu, food poisoning etc etc .... every illness is always Covid ...
I’ve got heart disease, high blood pressure and a tendency to Transient Global Amnesia.
Feel so left out by never getting covid ... may it’s because i never, never test for it .... Bowel cancer and diabetes yes ... but covid ...never.


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## C R (1 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> It amazes me how Covid Fanatics never seem to get ill with colds, flu, food poisoning etc etc .... every illness is always Covid ...
> I’ve got heart disease, high blood pressure and a tendency to Transient Global Amnesia.
> Feel so left out by never getting covid ... may it’s because i never, never test for it .... Bowel cancer and diabetes yes ... but covid ...never.


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## fossyant (1 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> It amazes me how Covid Fanatics never seem to get ill with colds, flu, food poisoning etc etc .... every illness is always Covid ...
> I’ve got heart disease, high blood pressure and a tendency to Transient Global Amnesia.
> Feel so left out by never getting covid ... may it’s because i never, never test for it .... Bowel cancer and diabetes yes ... but covid ...never.



Erm didn't Covid hospitalise you last year ? Is your amnesia playing up.


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## DCLane (1 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> It amazes me how Covid Fanatics never seem to get ill with colds, flu, food poisoning etc etc .... every illness is always Covid ... but covid ...never.


If you want it come visit for cake and coffee. We've an 18th birthday cake going uneaten.

I wouldn't advise the consequences though.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> No harm to you but ....
> I had Covid ... I was really Ill ... Hospitalised ... so ill for 3 weeks ... lost over a stone in weight .....
> Then made a full recovery ...
> Because I’m self employed .....
> Amazing how many people that have long term effects of Covid have Corporate or Public sector employment ........



Indeed he was hospitalised by Covid @fossyant , amnesia is playing up.


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## fossyant (1 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Indeed he was hospitalised by Covid @fossyant , amnesia is playing up.



Sounds terminal !


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## Ajax Bay (1 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer would surely remember if they'd caught COVID fossyant (variant).


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Landsurfer would surely remember if they'd caught COVID fossyant (variant).



Ongoing brain fog 🌫


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Jul 2022)

@DCLane I'm sorry to read you're poorly with the virus.
I stayed asymptomatic the whole of the time (7 days) that I tested positive.
Meantime, plenty of patients and staff of the hospital I work in, got it.
You are right when you say this variant is more contagious than the previous ones: I am sure I caught it from a colleague, I had a long, not socially distanced chat with her when she was feeling poorly, later turned out it was the corona.
I feel that it's our social responsibility to keep testing and isolating, for people like you that can get affected badly


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## Landsurfer (2 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> Erm didn't Covid hospitalise you last year ? Is your amnesia playing up.



Yes ... but amazingly ... I got better .... !!!


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## fossyant (2 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Yes ... but amazingly ... I got better .... !!!



You said above you didn't get it.


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## Rusty Nails (2 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> You said above you didn't get it.



Who hasn't been a little bit economical with the actualite when they want to make a point?


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## wiggydiggy (2 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> If you want it come visit for cake and coffee. We've an 18th birthday cake going uneaten.
> 
> I wouldn't advise the consequences though.



As a none doctor.... Someone did tell me to freeze my face masks as that would kill the virus.

Maybe freeze his cake and later eat the malformed mess that becomes of freezing a cake?🍰


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## Landsurfer (2 Jul 2022)

Swim in your pool of covid .... have parties in your petri dish of covid filth .. soon, I hope, your mental health issues will be addressed by the evil government that carried out the biggest physiological attack on it’s own population in history ... but i doubt it ....
The cost of energy, wheat, fuel, rents .... not covid, is the common reality ....
Look around you every day .. in supermarkets, work places, businesses ... at Cadwell Park today, where the only masks to be seen where being used to protect the carburettor intakes on a Vincent sidecar outfit ... with much mirth ..
I will strive to support your right to protect yourself from a common cold ....
But not for much longer ...............
Stop testing for Covid ... test for bowel cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure ....


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## classic33 (2 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> Swim in your pool of covid .... have parties in your petri dish of covid filth .. soon, I hope, your mental health issues will be addressed by the evil government that carried out the biggest physiological attack on it’s own population in history ... but i doubt it ....
> The cost of energy, wheat, fuel, rents .... not covid, is the common reality ....
> Look around you every day .. in supermarkets, work places, businesses ... at Cadwell Park today, where the only masks to be seen where being used to protect the carburettor intakes on a Vincent sidecar outfit ... with much mirth ..
> I will strive to support your right to protect yourself from a common cold ....
> ...


How do you suggest doing those tests at home, or even in a public place(where everything being done can be seen by anyone there).

Can the three things you say test for, be passed onto another person?


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## Rusty Nails (3 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> How do you suggest doing those tests at home, or even in a public place(where everything being done can be seen by anyone there).
> 
> Can the three things you say test for, be passed onto another person?



He's just a bit upset at being found out in his previous "mistakes", so going full Tonto.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> I will strive to support your right to protect yourself from a common cold ....



One that hospitalised you, made you very ill for 3 weeks, and lose a stone in weight.


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## Landsurfer (3 Jul 2022)

An Apology.
I have very different views on the subject of Covid from many of my fellow posters on this forum.
My opinions, right or wrong, are based on my lived experience, formed attitude and approach to living.
My life is not your life.
I will refrain from further comment on the subject of Covid.
Cyclechat.net is one of my favourite forums, I intend to carry on enjoying it.
David W.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> An Apology.
> I have very different views on the subject of Covid from many of my fellow posters on this forum.
> My opinions, right or wrong, are based on my lived experience, formed attitude and approach to living.
> My life is not your life.
> ...



Why, when it hospitalised you, made you very ill for 3 weeks, and lose a stone in weight; do you consider it just a common cold. Do you end up very ill and hospitalised, every time you get a common cold?


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## fossyant (3 Jul 2022)

It's made some folk very ill, my mate is stillstruggling breathing - caught it 18 months ago and was on oxygen for at least a year. Another mate was a denier, fairly fit, wound up in intensive care (he still wasn't going for vax - scared I think). Another work mate caught it recently and has been off ill since.

Me, I 'may' or may not have caught it in December 2019 (colleagues came back from Woohan) - not had a 'cold' like it. I've not officially caught though, despite lot's of 'contacts' (touch wood).

If you wound up in hospital, you are genetically disposed to being ill from it. So, despite me being either having super anti-bodies, or a super immune system, I don't go round calling it a cold. I'm just getting on with life, back in work, close contact with staff and students etc. 

MIL wasn't ill with it, but it triggered other complications and pneumonia that she couldn't shake and died recently. She didn't die of covid, but her weak CV system didn't respond so well.

Never call it a cold, especially if you have any health issues - heart or lung issues, take it seriously.


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## DCLane (3 Jul 2022)

All three of my house now have it; me on day 6 and slowly getting better, son no. 2 on day 3 and fine, SWMBO tested positive this morning.

She works on a Covid rehab ward alongside patients who've had strokes / have neurology issues so tests every day just in case but it's the first time she's caught it. Lots of her colleagues have caught it in the past week so it's either from us, despite trying to keep her separate, or from one/more of her colleagues.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> My opinions, right or wrong, are based on my lived  _completely made up_ experience, formed attitude and approach to living.


FTFY


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## Mike_P (3 Jul 2022)

I have had some symptoms since mid week but not a cough or running nose so whilst the test said negative I'm wondering if it was a false negative or how well the test works if the vaccines are largely cutting out its effects.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

@DCLane: out of interest, advice for Asthmatics here is to use our inhaler once every day to boost our immunity. Is that advised in the UK?


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## PaulSB (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> @DCLane: out of interest, advice for Asthmatics here is to use our inhaler once every day to boost our immunity. Is that advised in the UK?



Although she's stopped now my wife did this for a long time during Covid.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Although she's stopped now my wife did this for a long time during Covid.



I've been told to keep using the inhaler daily; I asked if it could cause long term complications but the doctor told me they're unlikely and in any case less troublesome then C-19 could be.


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## gbb (3 Jul 2022)

Son in law currently positive.
Daughter in law just tested neg after contracting covid, come into reasonably close contact with both prior to their infection.
Still neither of us, wife and myself, have had covid yet . How many people have still not had it i wonder ?


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## C R (3 Jul 2022)

gbb said:


> Son in law currently positive.
> Daughter in law just tested neg after contracting covid, come into reasonably close contact with both prior to their infection.
> Still neither of us, wife and myself, have had covid yet . How many people have still not had it i wonder ?



In our house only the youngest has had it, he was the only one unvaccinated at the time, as he was still too young. Probably a large dose of luck and some help from the vaccine that the rest of us haven't yet caught it.


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## DCLane (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> @DCLane: out of interest, advice for Asthmatics here is to use our inhaler once every day to boost our immunity. Is that advised in the UK?



I'm a twice-a-day steroid inhaler plus reliever as required. It may be the inhalers are different in Germany?


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## Flick of the Elbow (3 Jul 2022)

My wife and I had the covid three weeks ago, we had the symptoms of a heavy cold for a week. Two weeks later the immediate symptoms have gone but we are both left feeling tired and ‘woozy’, a bit like a hangover, a sore/tickly throat, a bit of a headache, balance a bit unsteady, muscle weakness. We are gradually getting better but only very slowly.
We both tested on the first day of symptoms and both returned negative LFT’s. They only went positive when we tested again after another few days of symptoms, by which time who knows how many contacts we had passed it on to.


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## classic33 (3 Jul 2022)

gbb said:


> Son in law currently positive.
> Daughter in law just tested neg after contracting covid, come into reasonably close contact with both prior to their infection.
> Still neither of us, wife and myself, have had covid yet . How many people have still not had it i wonder ?


Still clear, only recently reduced daily testing to weekly.


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## Julia9054 (3 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> I'm a twice-a-day steroid inhaler plus reliever as required. It may be the inhalers are different in Germany?



I am too. I was pleasantly surprised that my bout of covid in April didn’t give me any breathing/coughing symptoms at all.


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## Electric_Andy (3 Jul 2022)

3 people at work have had it last week, so we've been told to work from home this week. An elderly cousin of my dad's has just got it for the 4th time


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## Rickshaw Phil (3 Jul 2022)

Having avoided it in the immediate family since the start (unless that bad illness we all had in Jan 2020 could have been it??? ), my brother tested positive on Tuesday. I knew I was at risk as we'd spent a few evenings together with drinks and a movie just beforehand and my positive test came this morning. Zarking fardwarks!

Meanwhile, Cousin L tested positive on Thursday - her third time in the last nine months. To say she is cheesed off would be an understatement.


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jul 2022)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> my positive test came this morning


Hopefully you'll sail through it: I just had it, no symptoms apart form feeling a wee bit chilly on a hot day on the first positive test.
That was my first time (I'm sure because I have tested regularly since 2020).
Annoying more than anything else, it overlapped with annual leave, I tested positive for 7 days


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## Slick (3 Jul 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Hopefully you'll sail through it: I just had it, no symptoms apart form feeling a wee bit chilly on a hot day on the first positive test.
> That was my first time (I'm sure because I have tested regularly since 2020).
> Annoying more than anything else, it overlapped with annual leave, I tested positive for 7 days



Turn your annual leave into a sickness Pat and get your time back. Happens all the time.


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jul 2022)

Slick said:


> Turn your annual leave into a sickness Pat and get your time back. Happens all the time.


Oh, I didn't know that.
Anyway, I'm getting made redundant on the 15th of July, running out of days as I still have 6 days annual leave to take 
Currently I work for the public sector, but if you get Corona while employed in the private sector, sickness pay has stopped now, you are meant to go to work if feeling up to it.
If not it's just statuary sick pay afaik.


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## midlife (3 Jul 2022)

> You can't actually be on annual leave while sick, odd situation but you have to be at work to take annual leave. Your employer should automatically switch for you and reinstate your leave entitlement


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## Slick (3 Jul 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Oh, I didn't know that.
> Anyway, I'm getting made redundant on the 15th of July, running out of days as I still have 6 days annual leave to take
> Currently I work for the public sector, but if you get Corona while employed in the private sector, sickness pay has stopped now, you are meant to go to work if feeling up to it.
> If not it's just statuary sick pay


Yes you absolutely can and should do it even if you are to be made redundant. I'm kind of public sector with a private sector element, and the advice we are getting is pretty much as you say, no longer a reason on its own for non attendance and its to be treated like any other illness, so if you are feeling OK, you should come to work, which I think is a huge error. Its a long complicated story, but after fighting hard for 2 years to keep my workplace covid free, I was never going to be the one to walk into the office and put others at risk. I still think we need to make our own decisions.


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## Slick (3 Jul 2022)

You can't actually be on annual leave while sick, odd situation but you have to be at work to take annual leave. Your employer should automatically switch for you and reinstate your leave entitlement


Nice.


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## DCLane (3 Jul 2022)

Slick said:


> You can't actually be on annual leave while sick, odd situation but you have to be at work to take annual leave. Your employer should automatically switch for you and reinstate your leave entitlement
> 
> 
> Nice.



I've got this as there's a chance I could be still ill next Wednesday, when I'm supposed to be taking six days' leave. The probability is I'll still take the leave and am aiming to do some work from home Mon/Tues - I've an exam board to chair Tuesday but cover is in place if I can't do it.


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## Alex321 (4 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> It amazes me how Covid Fanatics never seem to get ill with colds, flu, food poisoning etc etc .... every illness is always Covid ...
> I’ve got heart disease, high blood pressure and a tendency to Transient Global Amnesia.
> Feel so left out by never getting covid ... may it’s because i never, never test for it .... Bowel cancer and diabetes yes ... but covid ...never.



It is very probably because you never test for it.

And I have absolutely no idea why you believe that "covid fanatics" (whatever rubbish you mean by that) never get any other illness. Though most of us have had fewer illnesses than usual during the pandemic. Keeping social distance does tend to reduce the transmission of most infectious diseases, not just Covid.


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## Alex321 (4 Jul 2022)

midlife said:


> You can't actually be on annual leave while sick, odd situation but you have to be at work to take annual leave. Your employer should automatically switch for you and reinstate your leave entitlement


Which employer is that with? (It certainly isn't a generic rule).


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## Slick (4 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Which employer is that with? (It certainly isn't a generic rule).



https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/sick-pay-and-holiday-pay

Have a look at how Acas see it.


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## ClichéGuevara (4 Jul 2022)

I wonder how many people have caught one of the seasonal bugs that lockdown has reduced immunity to, as they didn't build up the normal defense through exposure, and call it covid because they test positive for some other reason.

I did ask the experts in the field that question, and they said that they have absolutely no way of knowing, but it is very feasible.


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## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I wonder how many people have caught one of the seasonal bugs that lockdown has reduced immunity to, as they didn't build up the normal defense through exposure, and call it covid because they test positive for some other reason.
> 
> I did ask the experts in the field that question, and they said that they have absolutely no way of knowing, but it is very feasible.



"Positive for some other reason" That would be a false positive, then. What's the false +ve rate for LFTs? (Genuine Q, I don't know)

Edit. I had a quick read around and the false positive rate is very low indeed. So this is nothing to be concerned about.


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## Alex321 (4 Jul 2022)

Slick said:


> https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/sick-pay-and-holiday-pay
> 
> Have a look at how Acas see it.



The same way I do, from that page.

While the employer can't force you to use annual leave while off sick, you can do so.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> I've got this as there's a chance I could be still ill next Wednesday, when I'm supposed to be taking six days' leave. The probability is I'll still take the leave and am aiming to do some work from home Mon/Tues - I've an exam board to chair Tuesday but cover is in place if I can't do it.



You really shouldn’t be working if ill. It’s not good for your health and not a wise move to make.


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## cougie uk (4 Jul 2022)

Landsurfer said:


> An Apology.
> I have very different views on the subject of Covid from many of my fellow posters on this forum.
> My opinions, right or wrong, are based on my lived experience, formed attitude and approach to living.
> My life is not your life.
> ...



Absolute muppet. Three weeks in hospital - those poor nurses putting up with you but denies having had it and carrying on with the behavior that probably got him sick in the first place. 

Does Covid also rot the brain ?


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## DCLane (4 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You really shouldn’t be working if ill. It’s not good for your health and not a wise move to make.



Today's work will be: e-mail back three pre-done reports. And decide whether to not chair an exam board tomorrow or not. That will be all  *

* technically I'd finished my year's annualised hours schedule mid-March due to having to do a pile of overtime, so I'm picking up bits and pieces until September.

Day 7: progress. The test's starting to show a slightly fainter line, rather than the walloping great one it's shown for a week. Temperature's almost gone but I'm still coughing like an 80-a-day smoker despite the medication they've put me on. Breathing's still not great though.

Son no. 2 is fine at day 4, it's like a cold for him.

SWMBO is almost fine at day 2, you'd not know she was ill yesterday.


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## cougie uk (4 Jul 2022)

BIL and SIL have had it for a week now. Mate of mine has been to a tournament abroad and about half the people there have caught it and it's probably developing in the rest of them. It's very contagious at the moment - new strain perhaps ?

I've still not got it and don't want to either!


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## cougie uk (4 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You really shouldn’t be working if ill. It’s not good for your health and not a wise move to make.



Definitely this. 
I hated that add for Beachams super max flu powder's or whatever it was that made out you could have them and get back to work with the flu. 

I've only had flu the once and I was wiped out for a fortnight. Absolutely zero chance of working.

Rest up and your recovery will be quicker.


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## vickster (4 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> BIL and SIL have had it for a week now. Mate of mine has been to a tournament abroad and about half the people there have caught it and it's probably developing in the rest of them. It's very contagious at the moment - new strain perhaps ?
> 
> I've still not got it and don't want to either!



Yes, new Omicron strains.
Friend of mine has it for the first time


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## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2022)

I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that I _did_ have Corona just before the first lockdown.

I was wiped out for several days with wild temperature swings - from fever to shivering and sweating absolute buckets. Exhausted and sleeping most of the time. Lasted about 3 or 4 days. The reason I didn't think it was Corona at the time was that there were absolutely no respiratory symptoms. Breathing was fine but I did have some strange problems with taste. It wasn't that I lost my sense of taste but certain things were completely unappetising and I thought they must be mouldy or off. I was fine after about a week.

The other complicating factor was that it all started on a Sunday/Monday, and on the Saturday I had crashed quite badly, so with initial symptoms we were concerned about possible concussion.

But now knowing how variable symptoms can be, and bearing in mind that I was riding the tube/bus right up til the Friday makes me think it may well have been Corona. Not that it makes any difference to anything now, two years on.


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## Alex321 (4 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You really shouldn’t be working if ill. It’s not good for your health and not a wise move to make.



I'd rather work than not, unless so ill I need to be in bed. I work in IT (current job title "data engineer"

Sitting at my desk isn't all that taxing, and if I wasn't working I'd be more likely to try and do physical work around the house.


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## geocycle (4 Jul 2022)

Got a streaming cold, tested negative but suspicious none the less. I plodded round my Sunday ride at 18.5 kph so I need to blame something for the lethargy!


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## Slick (4 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> The same way I do, from that page.
> 
> While the employer can't force you to use annual leave while off sick, you can do so.



Also,


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## Rezillo (6 Jul 2022)

In the past week, I've tested positive as has Mrs R, plus niece and fiance, two of our best friends, another couple we know and my sister. Apart from our niece and her fiance, all have fairly debilitating flu-type symptoms and are in their 60s, fully jabbed. My symptoms are just starting to improve after a week where I've largely been confined to bed.

This seems a remarkable strike rate given that we haven't met up with most of them for some weeks. In a flu season, I might know one or two people who have had flu but not everyone I've spoken to! I'm assuming I've got one of the new highly infectious variants. Hopefully, most people's symptoms will be limited but given the older age group, it is a little worrying for those who may be more susceptible. The gunk I've coughed up is something else but seems to have died down.


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## DCLane (6 Jul 2022)

SWMBO's Covid ward colleagues are saying the two new variants (BA.4/5) are highly contagious. Given lots of them are all off work having tested positive after 2+ years of OK I'm inclined to agree.

I'm on day 9 and testing positive still, recovering slowly. Son no. 2 tested negative today on day 6, SWMBO is on day 4 and OK.


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## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> SWMBO's Covid ward colleagues are saying the two new variants (BA.4/5) are highly contagious. Given lots of them are all off work having tested positive after 2+ years of OK I'm inclined to agree.
> 
> I'm on day 9 and testing positive still, recovering slowly. Son no. 2 tested negative today on day 6, SWMBO is on day 4 and OK.



Wasn't the long term projection that the variants will be increasingly contagious but less lethal?


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## DCLane (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Wasn't the long term projection that the variants will be increasingly contagious but less lethal?



Think so, but an eminently qualified and not befuddled member can confirm/deny this.


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## Rezillo (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Wasn't the long term projection that the variants will be increasingly contagious but less lethal?



That is my understanding. However, if you have people with flu-like symptoms in high numbers in an older age group, there will be a percentage requiring hospital admission. 

It's the usual covid problem of a small percentage of large numbers still being a large number. In other words, this could be a burden on the NHS even if the variants are less lethal and those admitted to hospital safely released after treatment.

The symptoms I've had have been no worse than 'normal' flu but certainly nothing like a cold. My niece and nephew in their late twenties just had a few cold-like snuffles and only tested because I had tested positive and we had met up.


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## Flick of the Elbow (6 Jul 2022)

Today is the first day that I’m feeling almost normal after three and a half weeks of symptoms. I’m not 100% yet, but at last the feeling of dizziness and legs like jelly has worn off.
(I’m late 50’s, triple vaccinated, and had managed to avoid it up until now).


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## Rezillo (6 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Today is the first day that I’m feeling almost normal after three and a half weeks of symptoms. I’m not 100% yet, but at last the feeling of dizziness and legs like jelly has worn off.
> (I’m late 50’s, triple vaccinated, and had managed to avoid it up until now).


Oh, that is bad luck.

Amazon delivery just now and our dialog at the door went:

"Don't get too close - I've got"

"Covid?"

"Yes"

"as has everyone else, it seems"


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## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

not had covid, never had symptons of covid and never tested for covid 

BUT 

i never broke any rules, i stayed isolated with my partner ( who has fibromyalgia and a heart defect ) for nearly all the two years of various lockdowns, i permenantley work from home, i have my food shopping delivered and if i do go into stores/chemists then i still wear a face mask, to ensure my partners illness doesnt suffer or that she doesnt get it from myself......not seen my parents physically in two years and my inlaws who live 2 doors away, we only talk over the fence


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## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> not had covid, never had symptons of covid and never tested for covid
> 
> BUT
> 
> i never broke any rules, i stayed isolated with my partner ( who has fibromyalgia and a heart defect ) for nearly all the two years of various lockdowns, i permenantley work from home, i have my food shopping delivered and if i do go into stores/chemists then i still wear a face mask, to ensure my partners illness doesnt suffer or that she doesnt get it from myself......not seen my parents physically in two years and my inlaws who live 2 doors away, we only talk over the fence



How do you know you haven't had it if you've never tested for it?


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

Rezillo said:


> Oh, that is bad luck.
> 
> Amazon delivery just now and our dialog at the door went:
> 
> ...



You can get Covid quicker on Prime I hear.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> How do you know you haven't had it if you've never tested for it?



What if you measure resting HR and HRV every single day. Let’s say you exercise every day or every other day and that includes heart rate and power data on the bike. Let’s include exercise that pushes you up to 90% or more of your max heart rate. You have a good understanding of your RPE and how that ties to your heart rate response and power output.

I would posit that you can’t have Covid-19 without it showing up in any of your daily data especially if you have a long and well established baseline.


----------



## lazybloke (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Wasn't the long term projection that the variants *will be increasingly contagious *but less lethal?


Yes to the bold bit because new variants can only establish by being more contagious than existing strains. Simple maths.

Not sure about the last bit. Alpha & Delta were both more virulent (lethal) than the Wuhan strain, so it's quite possible a future variant could be even worse.


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> What if you measure resting HR and HRV every single day. Let’s say you exercise every day or every other day and that includes heart rate and power data on the bike. Let’s include exercise that pushes you up to 90% or more of your max heart rate. You have a good understanding of your RPE and how that ties to your heart rate response and power output.
> 
> I would posit that you can’t have Covid-19 without it showing up in any of your daily data especially if you have a long and well established baseline.



Let's be realistic.


----------



## Alex321 (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> How do you know you haven't had it if you've never tested for it?



Well if he's never had symptoms, and has stayed permanently isolated, not much chance he's had it.
Most of us have only ever tested if showing symptoms.

Personally, I did have a several month phase of testing weekly because I was meeting others for Morris practice and we agreed we would all test before each practice. Ironically, when I finally caught COVID three weeks ago, it appears to have been from a Morris event, and more half the side went down with it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> Let's be realistic.



The reality, it’s possible to know you’ve not had it, without testing.


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The reality, it’s possible to know you’ve not had it, without testing.



Wrong.

How would you know it's Covid-19, and not a cold/flu or any other ailment?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> Wrong.
> 
> How would you know it's Covid-19, and not a cold/flu or any other ailment?



Because you have absolutely zero symptoms or indication that anything is off, despite the long history of data from before and leading all the way through the pandemic. You haven’t been ill once , during the whole period.

Thats how you know it’s not a cold or flu because you’ve had nothing even close to those symptoms either, not a hint of it. You haven’t been ill once.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Most of us have only ever tested if showing symptoms.


Not really so, at least not in my case. I test before visiting my sister, who is vulnerable, just in case.


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Yes to the bold bit because new variants can only establish by being more contagious than existing strains. Simple maths.
> 
> Not sure about the last bit. Alpha & Delta were both more virulent (lethal) than the Wuhan strain, so it's quite possible a future variant could be even worse.



Ah, well, so much for my attempt at optimism.

My understanding was that it's evolution: the more dangerous variants will die off because if the person with it doesn't pass it on then that variant will in turn die out, whereas variants that can transfer to a new host quickly, and also give themselves more time by being less dangerous to the host will survive longer., but then I'm the opposite of an expert and probably clutching at straws.


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> What if you measure resting HR and HRV every single day. Let’s say you exercise every day or every other day and that includes heart rate and power data on the bike. Let’s include exercise that pushes you up to 90% or more of your max heart rate. You have a good understanding of your RPE and how that ties to your heart rate response and power output.
> 
> I would posit that you can’t have Covid-19 without it showing up in any of your daily data especially if you have a long and well established baseline.





Ming the Merciless said:


> Because you have absolutely zero symptoms or indication that anything is off, despite the long history of data from before and leading all the way through the pandemic. You haven’t been ill once , during the whole period.
> 
> Thats how you know it’s not a cold or flu because you’ve had nothing even close to those symptoms either, not a hint of it. You haven’t been ill once.



As I'm sure you're aware, this is incredibly unlikely and improbable. You appear to have a penchant for bickering and hypothesising, go outside, it's a nice day.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> As I'm sure you're aware, this is incredibly unlikely and improbable. You appear to have a penchant for bickering and hypothesising, go outside, it's a nice day.



No it’s not, it describes my situation. It’s entirely probable because it’s true, and this from n=1. There will be plenty of other examples out there. There’s nothing hypothetical about it. We haven’t all been falling ill these past 2.5 years.

edit - well it’s all true but I’ve also been testing reasonably regularly since kits became available. All tests negative.


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## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> How do you know you haven't had it if you've never tested for it?



probably cause i have never had any symptoms listed within the government recommendations to be tested for…..


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## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> probably cause i have never had any symptoms listed within the government recommendations to be tested for…..



What if you were asymptomatic, like up to ~40% of people who've caught it?


----------



## Mo1959 (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> No it’s not, it describes my situation. It’s entirely probable because it’s true, and this from n=1. There will be plenty of other examples out there. There’s nothing hypothetical about it. We haven’t all been falling ill these past 2.5 years.
> 
> edit - well it’s all true but I’ve also been testing reasonably regularly since kits became available. All tests negative.



No Covid or flu vaccines and not as much as a sniffle for the last 3 years either so doubt very much I’ve had it unless I’ve been symptomless.


----------



## vickster (6 Jul 2022)

Global data suggest that 40%+ of cases of confirmed Covid-19 infection are asymptomatic


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> What if you were asymptomatic, like up to ~40% of people who've caught it?



You only test if you have symptoms…..and as i dont visit anyone, i work from home, i get my shopping delivered, then as per WELSH government guidelines, i have no need to take a test.

i hope that clears up, the same question you asked for a second time.


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> You only test if you have symptoms…..and as i dont visit anyone, i work from home, i get my shopping delivered, then as per WELSH government guidelines, i have no need to take a test.
> 
> i hope that clears up, the same question you asked for a second time.



Only asked you once, will get you a calculator for Christmas


----------



## cougie uk (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Wasn't the long term projection that the variants will be increasingly contagious but less lethal?



I don't think there's any way to tell how the variants will go.


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> You only test if you have symptoms…..and as i dont visit anyone, i work from home, i get my shopping delivered, then as per WELSH government guidelines, i have no need to take a test.
> 
> i hope that clears up, the same question you asked for a second time.



That's interesting. We had to test everyone at least every 2-3 days regardless of symptoms, when numbers were very high we had to test unvaccinated people every day. I'm not sure about the science with that last one to be honest; no-one ever explained why an unvaccinated person could be more likely to be an asymptomatic carrier, but there we go.


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> Only asked you once, will get you a calculator for Christmas



Post 4229 asks how would i know and post 4236……both ask about how would i know and what if i was asymptomatic. So twice


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I don't think there's any way to tell how the variants will go.



I think you should know you've now completely destroyed my monthly attempt at optimism.


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's interesting. We had to test everyone at least every 2-3 days regardless of symptoms, when numbers were very high we had to test unvaccinated people every day. I'm not sure about the science with that last one to be honest; no-one ever explained why an unvaccinated person could be more likely to be an asymptomatic carrier, but there we go.



Define we??? If your talking about your place of work, then i left my place of work on march 16th 2020 and have yet to this day returned. So they had no need to test me……i was working from home and still do.

i also work very closely with the welsh government and am very clear of what rules we had to adhere to.


----------



## cougie uk (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> What if you measure resting HR and HRV every single day. Let’s say you exercise every day or every other day and that includes heart rate and power data on the bike. Let’s include exercise that pushes you up to 90% or more of your max heart rate. You have a good understanding of your RPE and how that ties to your heart rate response and power output.
> 
> I would posit that you can’t have Covid-19 without it showing up in any of your daily data especially if you have a long and well established baseline.



Yes but who does this ?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Yes but who does this ?



me, and regards daily HRV about 4.5 million according to the app. Many millions collect this data as a matter of course.

Latest numbers are that 19 million confirmed cases of Covid 19 in UK. Leaving 51 million unconfirmed. You can’t say 100% of the 51 million must have been asymptomatic the past 2.5 years.


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Define we??? If your talking about your place of work, then i left my place of work on march 16th 2020 and have yet to this day returned. So they had no need to test me……i was working from home and still do.
> 
> i also work very closely with the welsh government and am very clear of what rules we had to adhere to.



Fair comment; I meant "We" as in "my place of work" and possibly by extension the state of Baden-Württemberg as our C-19 regulations were defined by the states not the federal government. 

I was expressing interest in the different regulations in similar countries, not intending to cast doubt on how you have responded to C-19.


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Fair comment; I meant "We" as in "my place of work" and possibly by extension the state of Baden-Württemberg as our C-19 regulations were defined by the states not the federal government.
> 
> I was expressing interest in the different regulations in similar countries, not intending to cast doubt on how you have responded to C-19.



Yeh, there was lots of differences in testing rules with the devolved governments in the UK too and even now there are differences…….


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Yeh, there was lots of differences in testing rules with the devolved governments in the UK too and even now there are differences…….



The state parliaments and courts have to ratify laws and I got a strong feeling they were really grappling with the balance of freedom and stopping the pandemic; some state courts even said the laws were unconstitutional in their states...


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Post 4229 asks how would i know and post 4236……both ask about how would i know and what if i was asymptomatic. So twice



4236 asks simply what if you were asymptomatic


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> 4236 asks simply what if you were asymptomatic



So two questions……both had question marks after them, i answered both


----------



## Tom... (6 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> So two questions……both had question marks after them, i answered both



Yes, but not the same question, as you implied


----------



## jowwy (6 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> Yes, but not the same question, as you implied



Both questions were broadly around testing for covid…………but anyway lets move on, plenty of other people have answered the same question as i have


----------



## Pat "5mph" (6 Jul 2022)

vickster said:


> Global data suggest that 40%+ of cases of confirmed Covid-19 infection are asymptomatic


I was very surprised to test positive, not even a temperature!
To think that pre corona times I used to drag myself to work sneezing and coughing, as was expected


----------



## DaveReading (6 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not really so, at least not in my case. I test before visiting my sister, who is vulnerable, just in case.


"Not in my case" doesn't really negate a "most of us do" assertion.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2022)

DaveReading said:


> "Not in my case" doesn't really negate a "most of us do" assertion.



If 40% of those who test positive are asymptomatic, then at least 40% of those testing must be testing without symptoms. Thus the test figures must be around 50/50 for those who test with symptoms, and those who test without.

What we don’t know, is of those who have no symptoms and are testing, how many come up negative?


----------



## classic33 (6 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If 40% of those who test positive are asymptomatic, then at least 40% of those testing must be testing without symptoms. Thus the test figures must be around 50/50 for those who test with symptoms, and those who test without.
> 
> What we don’t know, is of those who have no symptoms and are testing, how many come up negative?


No symptoms and still coming up negative. Lateral Flow and PCR's.


----------



## Alex321 (6 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not really so, at least not in my case. I test before visiting my sister, who is vulnerable, just in case.



What did you not understand about the phrase "most of us"?


----------



## Alex321 (7 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> As I'm sure you're aware, this is incredibly unlikely and improbable. You appear to have a penchant for bickering and hypothesising, go outside, it's a nice day.



Why on earth would he be "aware" of something that isn't remotely true.

There are many of us, probably millions, who kept religiously to lockdown social distancing recommendations, and didn't have ANY illnesses for over a year.

Neither my wife nor I had so much as a sniffle from April 2020 through until early 2022 - when we both caught colds from our grandsons when my daughter came to stay - thought that might be COVID, but both tested negative that time (and so did my daughter and her sons).

What he was taking abut was only improbable among people who either mixed with others (whether by choice or because their work required it), or have kids who had to go to school and mix with others.


----------



## lazybloke (7 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Ah, well, so much for my attempt at optimism.
> 
> My understanding was that it's evolution: the more dangerous variants will die off because if the person with it doesn't pass it on then that variant will in turn die out, whereas variants that can transfer to a new host quickly, and also give themselves more time by being less dangerous to the host will survive longer., but then I'm the opposite of an expert and probably clutching at straws.


It's not all bad, we do have vaccines. 

Just don't think about MERS.


----------



## Julia9054 (7 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If 40% of those who test positive are asymptomatic, then at least 40% of those testing must be testing without symptoms


Not necessarily. This figure - if accurate - is more likely to come from ONS random sampling. 
When you reported an lft or pcr taken for other reasons, you weren't asked whether you had symptoms


----------



## Tom... (7 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Why on earth would he be "aware" of something that isn't remotely true.
> 
> There are many of us, probably millions, who kept religiously to lockdown social distancing recommendations, and didn't have ANY illnesses for over a year.
> 
> ...



I wasn't saying not catching it was improbable @Alex321 ? Think you've got the wrong end of the stick.

I was stating his suggestion that jowwy had been measuring an array of body metrics on a daily basis to determine whether or not he's had, or has, Covid-19 was improbable. 

Like yourself, I haven't been I'll since early 2020, nor tested positive.


----------



## jowwy (7 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> I wasn't saying not catching it was improbable @Alex321 ? Think you've got the wrong end of the stick.
> 
> I was stating his suggestion that jowwy had been measuring an array of body metrics on a daily basis to determine whether or not he's had, or has, Covid-19 was improbable.
> 
> Like yourself, I haven't been I'll since early 2020, nor tested positive.



jowwy has not measured any array of body metrics...other than looking in the mirror and seeing the extra pounds pile on lol


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## iandg (7 Jul 2022)

It's finally got me. Positive test today. Headache, cough, dry throat and snotty. Feels no worse than a mild head cold atm.


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## Alex321 (7 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> I wasn't saying not catching it was improbable @Alex321 ? Think you've got the wrong end of the stick.
> 
> I was stating his suggestion that jowwy had been measuring an array of body metrics on a daily basis to determine whether or not he's had, or has, Covid-19 was improbable.


When you respond to the whole post, it isn't obvious it is only the first paragraph you are responding to. If you want to make that more obvious, put the cursor after the point you want to respond to and hit return, it will split the quote at that point.

Yes, I agree not many have been measuring those things regularly, though I suspect it may still be more than you might think. And I don't think Ming was actually suggesting Jowwy had been doing so.




Tom... said:


> Like yourself, I haven't been I'll since early 2020, nor tested positive.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (7 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Yes, I agree not many have been measuring those things regularly, though I suspect it may still be more than you might think. And I don't think Ming was actually suggesting Jowwy had been doing so.



Correct, it’s something I’ve been doing. I have no idea what Jowwy has or has not been measuring on a daily basis.

Whilst something may appear asymptomatic for a sedentary person who doesn’t measure any physiological parameters multiple times a week and doesn’t exercise at any significant intensity. If you do measure physiological parameters multiple times a week, or even daily, and regularly exercise at intensity and capture your physiological metrics during that exercise. Thus have a long history and known baselines for your physiology. Does it really seem beyond belief that if you had Covid that it also wouldn’t turn up in the physiological data? You can also argue that if it has absolutely zero impact on you physiologically, then can have you really have got Covid 19, a disease?


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> What did you not understand about the phrase "most of us"?



Chill out, no need to be so touchy. Just reporting personal experience.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (7 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> There are many of us, probably millions, who kept religiously to lockdown social distancing recommendations, and didn't have ANY illnesses for over a year.



Exactly. We haven’t all been in enclosed indoor spaces in close proximity to others for extended periods of time since the pandemic started. Haven’t all had sniffles or sore throats or coughs or headaches or any other ailments in that time.


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## jowwy (7 Jul 2022)

FFS - Can i say this for one last time

IT'S JOWWY, not jowly, jowry, joey...or anything to that ilk its 

JOWWY


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## iandg (7 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> FFS - Can i say this for one last time
> 
> IT'S JOWWY, not jowly, jowry, joey...or anything to that ilk its
> 
> JOWWY



I feel your pain - I got so p***ed off with work colleagues spelling my name "Iain" when I worked in Stornoway


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## CXRAndy (7 Jul 2022)

I tested positive yesterday. I've been unlucky in that, I was poorly a few weeks ago, felt like Covid, but could have been a cold. I recovered for maybe 5 days ,then yesterday rapidly felt poorly. I have the typical fever, headaches, chesty lungs. sinuses. I cant smell or taste anything. I've been for a walk on our land today, felt much better being able to cool down


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jul 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Not necessarily. This figure - if accurate - is more likely to come from ONS random sampling.
> When you reported an lft or pcr taken for other reasons, you weren't asked whether you had symptoms



Just reported a LFT test and it does seem odd that amongst the reasons you are allowed to give, one isn’t “because I have symptoms”. The only one close is “because I have symptoms and am eligible for treatments”

Though the Zoe survey would capture this data because they ask for both test data and symptoms at same time.


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## Alex321 (7 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Just reported a LFT test and it does seem odd that amongst the reasons you are allowed to give, one isn’t “because I have symptoms”. The only one close is “because I have symptoms and am eligible for treatments”
> 
> Though the Zoe survey would capture this data because they ask for both test data and symptoms at same time.



I think from 1st July, just having symptoms stopped being a valid reason for testing in England, and you can no longer officially get free LFT tests just because you have symptoms.

They seem to have suspended that change in Wales, and you can still get free tests if you have symptoms here.


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## Rezillo (7 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Just reported a LFT test and it does seem odd that amongst the reasons you are allowed to give, one isn’t “because I have symptoms”. The only one close is “because I have symptoms and am eligible for treatments”
> 
> Though the Zoe survey would capture this data because they ask for both test data and symptoms at same time.


Yes, I found that odd as well. It doesn't seem to be encouraging reporting but I put mine through anyway. No problem for us - we have stacks of kits.

Mrs R started out with the mildest of cold symptoms but this did not last long. She spent last night with a wildly fluctuating fever and being sick on several occasions. I was so exhausted by the past few days, and finally had no continuous headache, that I unhelpfully slept through it all.

I notified two people we had been in contact with. They were symptomless but tested anyway and are both positive. One of them now has symptoms.

I seem to have said goodbye to my sense of smell and taste. Oh well, fully jabbed, two years of minimising exposure to others and I get beaten by what is very likely to be a highly infectious variant with little chance of escaping it. I haven't been keeping pace with info on the two new variants but I was reading that it is possible to get re-infected by them. Is this right?


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Jul 2022)

I've been using a Garmin smart watch for the last 6 months. It's got so canny features to report on the bodies recovery and stress, using HR and HR variability.

I'm pretty fit currently (excluding COVID) with a resting HR of 36bpm

Currently my resting HR with dealing with COVID is 55bpm. Today if I was fully fit and resting my Body Battery score from Garmin would be mostly blue with an increasing score.

This is what illness does -orange indicates body stress.

I'm sat on a couch doing naff all


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (7 Jul 2022)

Rezillo said:


> ..........................................
> 
> I seem to have said goodbye to my sense of smell and taste. Oh well, fully jabbed, two years of minimising exposure to others and I get beaten by what is very likely to be a highly infectious variant with little chance of escaping it. *I haven't been keeping pace with info on the two new variants but I was reading that it is possible to get re-infected by them. Is this right?*


I'm afraid it is. As I mentioned in a post a few pages back one of my cousins has just had it for the third time in nine months which she was really annoyed about. From what I understand she has been less ill and recovered quicker this time round though.

From reading some of the comments I seem to be getting away with not too bad a dose. Feeling a bit more human today and the sense of smell and taste is starting to return. That bit has been quite unpleasant as in place of being able to smell anything I had a kind of background sensation as though I'd been hanging round stale tobacco smoke.

Good news is that my brother is feeling better and has tested negative. Bad news is that my father tested positive this morning, which I'm quite worried about as he is susceptable to bronchial issues. My mother and sister have symptoms but tested negative.... but then, so did I on my first test after getting symptoms.


----------



## gbb (7 Jul 2022)

DIL and SIL both have it, DIL for the 4th time i think but they have young school age children, i suspect that exposes you to more risk, SIL has it for the 2nd time.
My wife and myself, neither of us has knowingly had it, both triple jabbed but that's no guarantee of not getting it of course.
Its been rampant all around us yet we stay free of it ? I work among hundreds of people every day, my wife works in a school where many staff and children have gone down with it. TBH, we both wonder...how come we havn't had it ?

We went to our DILs the other day, she had JUST cleared of covid, she asked if we wanted to come in still ?... No problem, we're almost of the view, we're either going to get it or not, shrug shoulders, get on with life.


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## PK99 (7 Jul 2022)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> I Bad news is that my father tested positive this morning, which *I'm quite worried about as he is susceptable to bronchial issues. *



Back in March 2020, my chest consultant who has looked after my various and intractable lung infection issues for a number of years, advised me that "... even for (you)" the risk following infection is low. And it was.
A few days of being under the weather.

More recently (a month or 3 ago) a friend with Type 1 diabetes, plus a multitude of other chronic and occasionally acute conditions, AND is GROSSLY obese following years of heavy steroid prescriptions, and who shielded religiously through early phases, tested positive. 
She was fine. The equivalent of a bad cold.

Be rightly concerned. Don't panic.


----------



## cougie uk (7 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I've been using a Garmin smart watch for the last 6 months. It's got so canny features to report on the bodies recovery and stress, using HR and HR variability.
> 
> I'm pretty fit currently (excluding COVID) with a resting HR of 36bpm
> 
> ...



Blimey - that is some jump in HR ! What is your Stress score for today - that must be through the roof too.
Get better soon !


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Jul 2022)

I've started to feel a tiny bit better, had a nap this afternoon.


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## Rickshaw Phil (7 Jul 2022)

PK99 said:


> Back in March 2020, my chest consultant who has looked after my various and intractable lung infection issues for a number of years, advised me that "... even for (you)" the risk following infection is low. And it was.
> A few days of being under the weather.
> 
> More recently (a month or 3 ago) a friend with Type 1 diabetes, plus a multitude of other chronic and occasionally acute conditions, AND is GROSSLY obese following years of heavy steroid prescriptions, and who shielded religiously through early phases, tested positive.
> ...



That's quite reassuring. I'll keep cool and take things as they come.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (7 Jul 2022)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Bad news is that my father tested positive this morning, which I'm quite worried about as he is susceptable to bronchial issues.


Don't panic @Rickshaw Phil 
I am prone to really bad tonsils infections, that quickly morph into bronchitis, usually with a high temperature to boot.
Yet, for some unknown reason, I was completely fine when I was positive, no symptoms at all.


----------



## Electric_Andy (7 Jul 2022)

Started coughing on Monday night, worked from home Tuesday but had to sign off sick at 11. I tested positive for covid. It's the worst I've ever felt, probably worse than when I had tonsillitis. My throat feels like razor blades and annoyingly is worse just as I get into bed. This is day 3…hoping it gets better tomorrow


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## fossyant (7 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I've been using a Garmin smart watch for the last 6 months. It's got so canny features to report on the bodies recovery and stress, using HR and HR variability.
> 
> I'm pretty fit currently (excluding COVID) with a resting HR of 36bpm
> 
> ...



This is all from a little LED on your wrist. I've got one too, these fancy watches... don't ever get that bothered by them as the reading's aren't that accurate.

I use mine for waking me up (I'm usually awake) and the occasional alert whilst riding. They are, pretty 'iffy' on some health stats.... I have a Samsung - I'll trust my Garmin chest strap and Garmin bike unit before a wrist strap.


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## CXRAndy (8 Jul 2022)

Today, I feel much better, fever has gone. The congestion in my sinuses and chest is being kept clear by Sudafed and Albos oil. Weekend should see me right for light cycling. Which is easy having an ebike available


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## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2022)

On the back of a restful day and decent night's sleep, my Garmin confirms what I feel like 




Resting HR within 1 or 2 BPM of normal for me. Must of been lucky with this variant, just a few days of feeling like a bad cold


----------



## Mo1959 (9 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> On the back of a restful day and decent night's sleep, my Garmin confirms what I feel like
> View attachment 652040
> 
> Resting HR within 1 or 2 BPM of normal for me. Must of been lucky with this variant, just a few days of feeling like a bad cold



That seems to be what this variant is now. Let's hope it continues and maybe even gets milder and we can forget about it altogether as it's still disrupting businesses with staff going off sick.


----------



## cougie uk (9 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> This is all from a little LED on your wrist. I've got one too, these fancy watches... don't ever get that bothered by them as the reading's aren't that accurate.
> 
> I use mine for waking me up (I'm usually awake) and the occasional alert whilst riding. They are, pretty 'iffy' on some health stats.... I have a Samsung - I'll trust my Garmin chest strap and Garmin bike unit before a wrist strap.



I just read a review of the latest Fenix watch in the comic. 
Reviewer compared her HR readings to that with the chest strap. max HR was 1 best different. Average was the same. 
I think they've improved a lot. 

I now don't use the strap for running and the HR seems very similar just from the watch.


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## Mo1959 (9 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I just read a review of the latest Fenix watch in the comic.
> Reviewer compared her HR readings to that with the chest strap. max HR was 1 best different. Average was the same.
> I think they've improved a lot.
> 
> I now don't use the strap for running and the HR seems very similar just from the watch.



Latest models definitely seem improved. I treated myself to a Garmin Epix a few months ago and am really pleased with it.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> This is all from a little LED on your wrist. I've got one too, these fancy watches... don't ever get that bothered by them as the reading's aren't that accurate.



Fairly good when resting which is what Andy’s readings are from. Not so much when exercising due to movement on wrist.


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## PK99 (9 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> On the back of a restful day and decent night's sleep, my Garmin confirms what I feel like
> View attachment 652040
> 
> Resting HR within 1 or 2 BPM of normal for me. Must of been lucky with this variant,* just a few days of feeling like a bad cold*



Different people & different variants. With the Original, back in March 2020 all I had was a mild cough & slight temperature for 2/3 days while mrs pk was in bed with covid that was medium flu like (confirmation it was covid was total loss of smell for 7 days , 7 days following infection


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## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2022)

I was much worse with my 2020 COVID, 6 weeks of fatigue post


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## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Fairly good when resting which is what Andy’s readings are from. Not so much when exercising due to movement on wrist.



That's what I found, poor HR reading from exercise. I use a heart strap when racing on Zwift. The Garmin Fenix seems decent enough for body metrics when not moving, sleep, sat down etc


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## cougie uk (9 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> That's what I found, poor HR reading from exercise. I use a heart strap when racing on Zwift. The Garmin Fenix seems decent enough for body metrics when not moving, sleep, sat down etc



I've the Fenix 6 and my HR graphs look as good running as when I had the 3 with the HR strap.


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## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've the Fenix 6 and my HR graphs look as good running as when I had the 3 with the HR strap.



I had an allergic reaction to the synthetic strap on my F6. I bought a leather strap, problems cured. But watch is no longer tight against skin


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## fossyant (9 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Fairly good when resting which is what Andy’s readings are from. Not so much when exercising due to movement on wrist.



This. OK resting but not climbing up a hill sweatting to bits,


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## CXRAndy (9 Jul 2022)

Being a lovely evening, wife took me on a cyclists pub crawl. Twenty odd miles and five pubs. Felt fine re breathing.


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## C R (9 Jul 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Yes to the bold bit because new variants can only establish by being more contagious than existing strains. Simple maths.
> 
> Not sure about the last bit. Alpha & Delta were both more virulent (lethal) than the Wuhan strain, so it's quite possible a future variant could be even worse.



My understanding is that there's a limit to lethality in that if a variant were too lethal it limits the number of hosts it can reach, as it kills the host too quickly. So there's an upper limit to lethality, but there's no evolutionary pressure for lower lethality, so long as it can still propagate, which is not good news for the hosts, i.e., us.


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## ColinJ (10 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> My understanding is that there's a limit to lethality in that if a variant were too lethal it limits the number of hosts it can reach, as it kills the host too quickly. So there's an upper limit to lethality, but there's no evolutionary pressure for lower lethality, so long as it can still propagate, which is not good news for the hosts, i.e., us.



If a virus is lethal and quick-acting, that is true because everyone could see what was happening and run away, or take precautions - for example, ebola. If someone in a supermarket suddenly collapsed in front of you coughing and spluttering out blood and you knew that people in the area had been infected by ebola, you'd be crazy to get too close.

If a virus were lethal and _slow_-acting, then there would be a _BIG_ problem because it could spread very widely _BEFORE _it started killing the hosts.


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## lazybloke (10 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> My understanding is that there's a limit to lethality in that if a variant were too lethal it limits the number of hosts it can reach, as it kills the host too quickly. So there's an upper limit to lethality, but there's no evolutionary pressure for lower lethality, so long as it can still propagate, which is not good news for the hosts, i.e., us.





ColinJ said:


> If a virus is lethal and quick-acting, that is true because everyone could see what was happening and run away, or take precautions - for example, ebola. If someone in a supermarket suddenly collapsed in front of you coughing and spluttering out blood and you knew that people in the area had been infected by ebola, you'd be crazy to get too close.
> 
> If a virus were lethal and _slow_-acting, then there would be a _BIG_ problem because it could spread very widely _BEFORE _it started killing the hosts.



Agreed Colin, and Ebola is an interesting example because it can incubate for WEEKS. Thankfully it is only transmissible once symptoms develop, otherwise it would be an even _more _terrifying/horrifying disease. 

A more deadly strain of Covid could also be trouble; as coronaviruses already have that capability to spread whilst the carrier is asymptomatic.


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## Rezillo (14 Jul 2022)

Day 13 - finally a negative test. Still got an intermittent cough but feel much, much better. Sense of taste and smell hugely reduced but signs of it coming back. I've lost 3kg!

Mrs R still positive.

[edit 16 July] Mrs R now negative on her day 13.


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## Electric_Andy (14 Jul 2022)

Electric_Andy said:


> Started coughing on Monday night, worked from home Tuesday but had to sign off sick at 11. I tested positive for covid. It's the worst I've ever felt, probably worse than when I had tonsillitis. My throat feels like razor blades and annoyingly is worse just as I get into bed. This is day 3…hoping it gets better tomorrow



Well I went back to work yesterday, so it took 7 days for my throat to ease, and 8 days until I was testing negative. Apparently sore throat is the most common symptom now, but I do hope not everyone has a throat like I did, it was agony


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## Bazzer (15 Jul 2022)

Daughter 2 has it again. This is the fourth time and the third time since she has been vaccinated. Bouts 2 & 3 were not too bad, but this time she is as rough as when she caught it a week or so before lockdown, when it was touch and go about an ambulance.


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## fossyant (20 Jul 2022)

Quite a few at work still going down with it. 

A mate has just spent 3 months in hospital due to a foot infection, get's released, and goes home with covid. 

A friend of our's has just lost her sister to covid - 80 year old with health complications, but wasn't able to fight it - in hospital just over a month with it..


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## postman (20 Jul 2022)

got the variant week last sunday,a really bad cold i would describe it.Shakes shivers sweats,sore throat,runny nose bad sleep off food stomach ache,now today feeling much much better .Coughing up crap off chest,having a test tomorrow along with Mrs P who also caught it.


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## lazybloke (20 Jul 2022)

It didn't get much fanfare in the media, but in the last few days an autumn covid booster has been announced. Includes anyone in the original groups 1-9.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Jul 2022)

So far so good. Whilst everyone is getting reinfected, I’m yet to see it first time round yet. No doubt it’ll happen at some point.


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## DCLane (20 Jul 2022)

Day 23: still slowly getting better. Not so much coughing and my chest is less tight, with the extra dose of steroids helpful. Still feeling worn out though.

It's horrible this virus.


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## Ajax Bay (20 Jul 2022)

Family wedding (niece) last Thursday (first significantly risky gathering attended since March 2020).
Unwell Sunday evening and to bed no supper. Poor night with headache (I don't get headaches) and a Monday morning test took about 10 seconds to give a solid T line. The odd paracetamol quaffed.
Continued poor appetite but a better Monday night and last night was fine. Appetite still low.
On the plus side it's a full 14 days before I'm heading for Loughton to help set up the London-Edinburgh-London registration and start, so I'll be well clear of being infectious by then, and with luck high level of albeit temporary immunity which should stand me in good stead given there are 1900 entries.


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## Adam4868 (20 Jul 2022)

I had it when it first came around,well just before pretty sure I caught it in Bergamo at a bike race.Ive worked right through the pandemic and so has my partner and two kids we thought we dodged it...until a week ago ! Lasted roughly a week,was rough a couple of days but pretty mild compared to the first time.


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## Ajax Bay (20 Jul 2022)

lazybloke said:


> It didn't get much fanfare in the media, but in the last few days an autumn covid booster has been announced. Includes anyone in the original groups 1-9.


Yes, and I understand that they're trying to coordinate a COVID-19 booster with the annual flu jab. This is a late change of policy on eligibility for flu jabs to include 50-64s which is causing logistic and supply 'challenges'.
Covid-19-booster-and-flu-jab-this-autumn
"those eligible for a further dose will be:

all adults aged 50 years and over
those aged 5 to 49 years in a clinical risk group, including pregnant women
those aged 5 to 49 years who are household contacts of people with immuno-suppression
those aged 16 to 49 years who are carers
residents in a care home for older adults and staff working in care homes for older adults
front line health and social care workers"
Think it's worth realising that these boosters are not to reduce the spread (because of the current variant's immune evasion) but to reduce the adverse effects of the virus on more or less vulnerable individuals.


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## KnittyNorah (20 Jul 2022)

I'm part of a clinical trial of boosters comparing the 'original' Moderna spikevax with a tweaked 'omicron variant' spikevax, so need to phone my clinical trial people and ask for their advice, given that I'll be fairly early in line for my autumn vaccinations due to my age. Maybe the clinical trial'll offer us second doses of what we had before? 
I have to confess though, as I was saying to the research nurse when I went for my most recent blood draw a week ago, that I'm disappointed I don't have built-in free 5G now ... the nurse said her mum was disappointed that she still needed to use a magnet to pick up the pins after she'd finished sewing a set of curtains, after all she'd read about becoming magnetised from it.


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## classic33 (20 Jul 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Yes, and I understand that they're trying to coordinate a COVID-19 booster with the annual flu jab. This is a late change of policy on eligibility for flu jabs to include 50-64s which is causing logistic and supply 'challenges'.
> *Covid-19-booster-and-flu-jab-this-autumn*
> "those eligible for a further dose will be:
> 
> ...


Page Not Found


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## DaveReading (20 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> Page Not Found


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-50s-to-be-offered-covid-19-booster-and-flu-jab-this-autumn


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## Ajax Bay (20 Jul 2022)

Have amended the link. Thank you for spotting 'fail' @classic33


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## AndyRM (21 Jul 2022)

Tested negative after about a week of it, but I'm still absolutely wiped out, runny nose, itchy eyes... I put that down to hay fever as the council cut the grass outside my flat, of which there is a lot, but no amount of anti-histamines shift the symptoms so I'm assuming it's COVID related.


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## cougie uk (21 Jul 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Family wedding (niece) last Thursday (first significantly risky gathering attended since March 2020).
> Unwell Sunday evening and to bed no supper. Poor night with headache (I don't get headaches) and a Monday morning test took about 10 seconds to give a solid T line. The odd paracetamol quaffed.
> Continued poor appetite but a better Monday night and last night was fine. Appetite still low.
> On the plus side it's a full 14 days before I'm heading for Loughton to help set up the London-Edinburgh-London registration and start, so I'll be well clear of being infectious by then, and with luck high level of albeit temporary immunity which should stand me in good stead given there are 1900 entries.



I'd be wearing a mask dealing with all those people. Who knows what variants they will have from all over the place.


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## Electric_Andy (21 Jul 2022)

My parents went to a fundraising BBQ on Saturday, 200 people there. They both tested positive on Tuesday even though it was outside, but I guess they saw lots of people they knew and were talking at close range. They are both 70 and never had it before, but up until now just have bad cold symptoms so fingers crossed it won't get any worse.


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## C R (21 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I'd be wearing a mask dealing with all those people. Who knows what variants they will have from all over the place.



Though the mask mostly protects other people from the wearer, rather than the other way around.


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## KnittyNorah (21 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> Though the mask mostly protects other people from the wearer, rather than the other way around.



Depends which sort of mask you wear ...


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## C R (21 Jul 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Depends which sort of mask you wear ...



I was thinking more that the mask doesn't protect from touching contaminated surfaces and then touching one's face.


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## Ajax Bay (21 Jul 2022)

Contaminated surfaces is so 2020. Aerosols (warning: simplification and definition danger)


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## KnittyNorah (21 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> I was thinking more that the mask doesn't protect from touching contaminated surfaces and then touching one's face.



Fomites REALLY aren't an issue of any significance.


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> I was thinking more that the mask doesn't protect from touching contaminated surfaces and then touching one's face.


Without going into the debate of what a mask protects from re Corona, it will only protect on first use, if you take it out of a sealed pack with washed hands.
Most folks keep their masks in their pockets between uses, I've seen plenty hanging from chins, loads on wrists while eating.
Even us working in the hospital, we take ours from a box.
The box is accessed by many, will they all have clean hands?


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## classic33 (21 Jul 2022)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Without going into the debate of what a mask protects from re Corona, it will only protect on first use, if you take it out of a sealed pack with washed hands.
> Most folks keep their masks in their pockets between uses, I've seen plenty hanging from chins, loads on wrists while eating.
> Even us working in the hospital, we take ours from a box.
> The box is accessed by many, will they all have clean hands?


Bit awkward keeping a half face mask in a pocket, let alone a full face one.


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> Bit awkward keeping a half face mask in a pocket, let alone a full face one.


How so?
How do you carry yours?
I guess not in a handbag


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## classic33 (21 Jul 2022)

Pat "5mph" said:


> How so?
> How do you carry yours?
> I guess not in a handbag


They came supplied storage/carrying bags.


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## C R (21 Jul 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Fomites REALLY aren't an issue of any significance.



Are aerosols the only significant form of transmission? Genuine question.


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## fossyant (21 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> Are aerosols the only significant form of transmission? Genuine question.



It seems to be with the current variants.

I work in a Uni, not caught it, touching surfaces.


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## Ajax Bay (21 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> aerosols the only significant form of transmission


Hopefully a knowledgeable person will come along, but
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsfs.2021.0072
There was early extreme reluctance to accept aerosol transmission as being important (droplets "2m" and fomites preferred) because stopping it (think hospital context) was/would have been massively difficult. Add to that 'aerosol' means different things (size of the particles in microns) to different sets of scientific/medical people (as opposed to 'normal' people) and different sets of protection measures.
Much easier to set up a protocol of mega-cleaning (aka 'doing something') rather than high level respirator protection.


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## MrGrumpy (21 Jul 2022)

I caught the current variant back beginning of June was very careful for 2 and a bit years . No idea where I got it or whom from. All I know was I had ditched face mask and was not not using hand gel anywhere near how I was back when this all kicked off . 

Now as for the covid , first week I was not great. Not on deaths door , mild flu I’d say . Second week though was not good. Sinus infection, extremely tired. Work was not fun, came home went to bed every night . So yes it didn’t kill me , however it was enough to effect me and debilitate me. 

So take that into our NHS and other services the public rely on . It’s easy to see how It could cause major problems for what is mild illness . 

Kinda grinds my gears all the anti vax , it’s all a hoax made up ball aches. Folk just don’t want to see the bigger picture .


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## KnittyNorah (22 Jul 2022)

C R said:


> Are aerosols the only significant form of transmission? Genuine question.



Who knows if they are the ONLY significant one - I certainly don't although I'm sure someone does. But they are certainly the main one. Fomites, in and of themselves, appear to play a very minor part in the business. 
That, of course, is at present and with current variants. 
Things could change at any time.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Jul 2022)

I assert that aerosol transmission is the only significant current mechanism. If there is another significant one, please name it (and maybe a link to support that). (I'd define 'significant' as responsible for more than 10% of transmissions.)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35261731/
"respiratory viruses have three modes of transmission: contact (direct and through fomites), large droplets and aerosols."
The deduction to inform people's risk judgements/taking is that open space is good, ventilation is good (sufficient ventilation is, therefore, a key countermeasure, which can be also supplemented by air filtration when appropriate [86].), decent masks (FFP2 at least) are a mitigation to consider in enclosed close contact spaces, and no doubt others can add a few more.
I have stopped cleaning the supermarket trolley handles before using but still use the offered hand gel on entry and departure. One never knows what holiday maker from wherever might have been the previous user.


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## Landsurfer (22 Jul 2022)

MUST NOT RESPOND !!..... MUST NOT POST !!
I promised i wouldn’t ...... must keep quiet !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Slick (23 Jul 2022)

That's good.


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## Slick (23 Jul 2022)

AndyRM said:


> Tested negative after about a week of it, but I'm still absolutely wiped out, runny nose, itchy eyes... I put that down to hay fever as the council cut the grass outside my flat, of which there is a lot, but no amount of anti-histamines shift the symptoms so I'm assuming it's COVID related.


I realise I'm late to the party, but I tested negative twice over 4 days despite feeling a bit off, before finally testing positive at the 3rd attempt.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Jul 2022)

Slick said:


> I realise I'm late to the party, but I tested negative twice over 4 days despite feeling a bit off, before finally testing positive at the 3rd attempt.


There used to be a poster in the hospital saying that LFT have an accuracy of 7 over 10.
It was meant to be an endorsement of their efficiency, but, really, missing 3 positives over 10 is quite a lot, imo.


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## Slick (24 Jul 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> There used to be a poster in the hospital saying that LFT have an accuracy of 7 over 10.
> It was meant to be an endorsement of their efficiency, but, really, missing 3 positives over 10 is quite a lot, imo.



It is quite a lot, and I know during the height of the pandemic we did have a couple of false positives that I was aware of.

That said, it is my belief that only 1 group of 6 actually contracted the disease in the college and we managed to keep going when nearly every other similar organisation went to a 100% remote delivery model, and it was these LFT's that enabled us to do that. 

Obviously it was a tough time for everyone, and the 7 from 10 thing was reduced further when we stopped witnessing the actual test, and went to the government advice of trusting students to do the test at home, log results online and show your negative result to gain entry to the building. You can imagine the shenanigans of some, but with quite a bit of effort, it was still enough to keep us safe.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Jul 2022)

Slick said:


> It is quite a lot, and I know during the height of the pandemic we did have a couple of false positives that I was aware of.
> 
> That said, it is my belief that only 1 group of 6 actually contracted the disease in the college and we managed to keep going when nearly every other similar organisation went to a 100% remote delivery model, and it was these LFT's that enabled us to do that.
> 
> Obviously it was a tough time for everyone, and the 7 from 10 thing was reduced further when we stopped witnessing the actual test, and went to the government advice of trusting students to do the test at home, log results online and show your negative result to gain entry to the building. You can imagine the shenanigans of some, but with quite a bit of effort, it was still enough to keep us safe.



We always had to supply kits and run the tests until it was decided the latest variant were not "dangerous" enough to warrant testing. In the latter stages things got a bit strange because we had to test unvaccinated people daily, even though vaccinated people could carry C-19. This frankly looked like the authorities trying to make life inconvenient for unvaccinated people in the hope they'd get vaccinated, but we have plenty of other things to worry about and it covered us legally if there was an outbreak.


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## Slick (24 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> We always had to supply kits and run the tests until it was decided the latest variant were not "dangerous" enough to warrant testing. In the latter stages things got a bit strange because we had to test unvaccinated people daily, even though vaccinated people could carry C-19. This frankly looked like the authorities trying to make life inconvenient for unvaccinated people in the hope they'd get vaccinated, but we have plenty of other things to worry about and it covered us legally if there was an outbreak.



I think the only real reason we stopped running the tests was staff fatigue, as we became reliant on the same people to do it, despite having a full class waiting for them, whilst others simply refused to lift a finger to support these people. It was a government website that was used to report the results and government guidance to let students test themselves, but I was always dubious about exactly who was doing what. It turned out, the individuals who didn't want to test, turned up without doing so, and were tested by us before letting them in anyway. My concerns were unfounded as I gave them too much credit as they couldn't even be bothered to cheat the system. Teenagers, eh. 

Also, we did have a 2 tier system depending upon your vaccination status, although the difference for us was, we sent unvaccinated close contacts home, and kept fully vaccinated individuals but tested them every day. As you say, all very strange and I wonder what we will make of it all when we look back in a couple of years from now.


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## Daninplymouth (31 Jul 2022)

To follow on from my post me and the wife have avoided it all the way through until 3 weeks ago. Ours wasn’t too bad, I mean I done tough 40mile ride then noticed a sore throat just before getting home then later that day I was super tired then got a high temperature then was switching between hot and shivering. Bit strange wrapping up in a blanket shivering in the peak of the heatwave 😂 my appetite was fine as normal and generally was just a bit tired over the first few days, if anything my sense of smell and breathing improved 🤦🏼‍♂️ The wife then got it the day after me she had bit more of a cough and lost her taste strangely about 5days in id have thought that would happen straight away. Iv been negative now for 2 weeks but returning to the bike I find I’m struggling and my heart rises much faster and for less effort than pre covid hopefully this settle downs in the next week or so


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## Ajax Bay (31 Jul 2022)

After a mid July 'first catch' I have been symptom free since day 2 except:
I am a bit worried that beer (proper British beer) doesn't taste quite as good as I remember (Old Peculiar, Speckled Hen, Otter bitter (from the pub barrel) and local microbrewery fare).
I have decided to adopt a structured rehab programme which will involve a fair bit of trialling, testing and experimentation.
I shall be taking advantage of LEL to see if there is regional variation to this, with the minimum of faffing, of course.


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## Daninplymouth (31 Jul 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> After a mid July 'first catch' I have been symptom free since day 2 except:
> I am a bit worried that beer (proper British beer) doesn't taste quite as good as I remember (Old Peculiar, Speckled Hen, Otter bitter (from the pub barrel) and local microbrewery fare).
> I have decided to adopt a structured rehab programme which will involve a fair bit of trialling, testing and experimentation.
> I shall be taking advantage of LEL to see if there is regional variation to this, with the minimum of faffing, of course.



I noticed that with beer and cider after 2 weeks I had a can of each and had to pour them away even though eating Iv been fine. Keep going I’m sure it’ll come back with plenty of practice


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## Dogtrousers (31 Jul 2022)

When I had my mystery (probably Corona) illness at the very start of things before tests were widely available, I was recovering and had a meal with some of my sister's home made pickle - which is a favourite of mine. Except it tasted awful, and I was _convinced_ it had gone off. When fully recovered I tried the same jar again and it was fine.


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## Slick (31 Jul 2022)

Daninplymouth said:


> I noticed that with beer and cider after 2 weeks I had a can of each and had to pour them away even though eating Iv been fine. Keep going I’m sure it’ll come back with plenty of practice



Ah, that's interesting. I kept my taste and smell through covid but my wife didn't. In what I thought was purely coincidental, the kegs in my perfect draft were tasteless. So much so, I've given up on them. I might give them one more go, just in case.


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## postman (1 Aug 2022)

Two weeks now since recovering. But still got a cough and when I cycle I have tight chest. Mrs P is left with a very deep rough cough. She coughs so loud its annoying .


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## DCLane (8 Sep 2022)

Two month post-Covid update:

Still struggling at times. This morning the Doc's doubled the strength of the inhalers I'm on as I should have got a lot better by now .

It's affecting daily life as I can only do about half the work-day before needing a rest/sleep. Given I start teaching in 10 days' time this could get complicated 

Taste and smell have partly returned, but not fully; i.e. I still have to remember to have a bath


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## PK99 (8 Sep 2022)

Guy who did my gym rehab work following ACL a few years ago age 33, fit as the proverbial. Issues with childhood asthma.

Has had covid 3 times. 2nd time was in ambulance with oxygen sats heading sub 90.

Lost all taste and smell for 6 months and still finds some food smells/tastes disgusting


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## Andy in Germany (8 Sep 2022)

PK99 said:


> Guy who did my gym rehab work following ACL a few years ago age 33, fit as the proverbial. Issues with childhood asthma.
> 
> Has had covid 3 times. 2nd time was in ambulance with oxygen sats heading sub 90.
> 
> Lost all taste and smell for 6 months and still finds some food smells/tastes disgusting



I think Asthma/Covid is more of a problem than people realise. I'm borderline asthmatic; the Doc has told me not to get too paranoid but wear an FFP2 mask in enclosed public spaces and use my Asthma spray daily. Covid is still around and should be treated with respect.


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## gbb (10 Sep 2022)

Wife woke up this morning feeling absolutely crud. Took a Covid test, negative, we agreed its probably a virus, flu maybe.
Boring day, wife been in bed most of it, hasn't eaten, just bleughhh. Ive mooched around, got bored, walked the dog twice. 
Wife re tested this afternoon....positive, her first time .
I will be testing later. I've still never had it, well, that may change soon.


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## DCBassman (10 Sep 2022)

gbb said:


> Wife woke up this morning feeling absolutely crud. Took a Covid test, negative, we agreed its probably a virus, flu maybe.
> Boring day, wife been in bed most of it, hasn't eaten, just bleughhh. Ive mooched around, got bored, walked the dog twice.
> Wife re tested this afternoon....positive, her first time .
> I will be testing later. I've still never had it, well, that may change soon.


We've just been in this exact situation. All ok now status-wise, but both still not 100%. Mrs DCB immunosuppressed, so has had IV antibodies as well.


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## MrGrumpy (10 Sep 2022)

Yep it kinda of sneaks up on you these day !


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## gbb (11 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yep it kinda of sneaks up on you these day !



I does. Up till now neither of us has (knowingly) had it. She only mentioned it at work recently, colleagues were surprised some people still haven't contracted it.
I'm still confounded that despite our numbers at work (high hundreds on shift every day) anyone or everyone there hasn't had it.

She is up this morning which is a slight improvement. More chesty cough, even her fingertips ache she said...but nothing alarming thankfully.


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## Bazzer (13 Sep 2022)

Bookings now being taken for those who are eligible for the Autumn booster. 
Here


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## vickster (13 Sep 2022)

Bazzer said:


> Bookings now being taken for those who are eligible for the Autumn booster.
> Here



Age wise, only 65+ at present, we 50-64s will need to wait a bit longer 

a seasonal booster (autumn booster) for people aged 65 years old and over, frontline health and social care workers, those at higher risk or who are pregnant, and people who have or live with someone who has a weakened immune system


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## midlife (13 Sep 2022)

Heard nothing about our hospital running booster and flu jab clinics this year. Not sure we have the staff to cover them?


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## Alex321 (13 Sep 2022)

Bazzer said:


> Bookings now being taken for those who are eligible for the Autumn booster.
> Here



Only for England.

In Wales, we need to wait for a letter or text inviting us - but the rollout of the Autumn booster has started.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Sep 2022)

I've had my invitation (and booked it) but friends,who are a bit older than me but in a different London authority have heard nothing. Looks like another postcode lottery.


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## vickster (13 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've had my invitation (and booked it) but friends,who are a bit older than me but in a different London authority have heard nothing. Looks like another postcode lottery.


They can book online, not all GPs will set it up


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## PK99 (13 Sep 2022)

Jab #6 Booked!


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## Ajax Bay (13 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've had my invitation (and booked it) but friends,who are a bit older than me but in a different London authority have heard nothing. Looks like another postcode lottery.


With the key difference that as the programme rolls out, the community as a whole is the winner, helped by as high a percentage as possible of those eligible getting jabbed (and for flu) - each of them are 'winners', unlike in a 'lottery' where a tiny percentage are 'winners'.
There is only so much capacity, so delivery (as offered) is deliberately staggered by place and cohort (age etc). It may be possible to get C-19 and flu at the same time, but they want to get on with the C-19 programme and flu is normally started later in the autumn.


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## fossyant (13 Sep 2022)

PK99 said:


> Jab #6 Booked!



SIX, think I've had the three, or is it four ? Was three for most of us, wasn't it.


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## Alex321 (13 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Only for England.
> 
> In Wales, we need to wait for a letter or text inviting us - but the rollout of the Autumn booster has started.



And my wife's invitation/appointment arrived at lunchtime today  For 1st of October.

She gets it earlier than I do, being 9 years older.


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## PK99 (13 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> *SIX*, think I've had the three, or is it four ?



Leukemia and daily chemo = classed as highly vulnerable


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## KnittyNorah (13 Sep 2022)

I won't have mine before 3rd October as that is the date I'm booked for another blood draw for the clinical trial I'm on (bivalent booster vs bog-standard booster. in spring). They want to get a blood draw prior to my autumn booster. So if I hear from my gp before them I shall merely make an appointment for after the 3rd.


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## Ajax Bay (14 Sep 2022)

Thanks to @Bazzer 's link my ride to the pub tomorrow (evening) will now be half an hour early to allow for a visit to our local 'wide area' centre for quick stabbing, which happens to be within 300m of my normal route to the Wednesday RV.


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## lazybloke (14 Sep 2022)

PK99 said:


> Leukemia and daily chemo = classed as highly vulnerable


If that puts you in the weakened immune system group, then your entire household (aged 5 or older) can book their jabs too.

Hoping my immediate family can do that , but it depends on how the NHS are categorising my daughter's health concerns this week.


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## PK99 (14 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> If that puts you in the weakened immune system group, then your entire household (aged 5 or older) can book their jabs too.
> 
> Hoping my immediate family can do that , but it depends on how the NHS are categorising my daughter's health concerns this week.



My wife has also booked for 5 minutes after me. Not #6 for her.


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## Bazzer (14 Sep 2022)

Jabbed. Not as slick an operation as previous Covid vaccinations, but hopefully it was just a combination of bad timing and very early days.
They were also offering the flu jab at the same time.


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## Ajax Bay (14 Sep 2022)

I am told fairly authoritatively (at least is NHS England-wide policy aiui) that if you are eligible 'now' and walk-in somewhere (ie without booking but with ID and local) they will (should, if capacity) make an assessment of whether you will come back 'ever' again when deciding whether to let you into the queue and vaccinate you there and then. Everyone's trying to make this work (get the % as high as possible).


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## Ajax Bay (14 Sep 2022)

As booked, vaccine on the way to the Wednesday pub ride: rode 15km there; 20 km to the pub; 3 pints and 30km back. People were 'walking in' sans appointment with complete success. Moderna this time.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2022)

From the QE2 thread:


vickster said:


> There’s relatively little Covid now, lower than in March 2020 apparently


Globally lower than March 2020, but nationally only lowest since October 2021. WHO advises not to slacken off with the end in sight, but to make a final lunge like a runner finishing a marathon.


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## Ajax Bay (15 Sep 2022)

From an e-mail this morning: "You can find a walk-in vaccination site near you at https://www.nhs.uk/vaccine-walk-in. You don’t need to book an appointment."
Implicitly aged 50 or over: go for it (or book with @Bazzer 's link ^^^ )


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## Andy in Germany (15 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> From the QE2 thread:
> 
> Globally lower than March 2020, but nationally only lowest since October 2021. WHO advises not to slacken off with the end in sight, but to make a final lunge like a runner finishing a marathon.



Let's hope people heed this advice. 

I've been told to use the FFP2 mask again.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been told to use the FFP2 mask again.



Who by?

And to what purpose?


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## Andy in Germany (15 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Who by?
> 
> And to what purpose?



By the Doc.
An FFP2 mask offers me more protection than a medical mask, and I can't always keep a distance from people at work, many of whom are a bit of a magnet for illnesses. I also use my inhaler once a day just to boost my immunity.
I'm not especially high risk but a even a normal cold can very quickly become pneumonia so I'm being cautious.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> By the Doc.
> An FFP2 mask offers me more protection than a medical mask, and I can't always keep a distance from people at work, many of whom are a bit of a magnet for illnesses. I also use my inhaler once a day just to boost my immunity.
> I'm not especially high risk but a even a normal cold can very quickly become quite serious so I'm being cautious.



Thanks, didn't realise it was personal rather than for everyone from your post.

I'm very sure your doc knows better what's best than me or anyone else here!


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## PaulSB (15 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> From an e-mail this morning: "You can find a walk-in vaccination site near you at https://www.nhs.uk/vaccine-walk-in. You don’t need to book an appointment."
> Implicitly aged 50 or over: go for it (or book with @Bazzer 's link ^^^ )



Friend of mine was a volunteer helper at one of the larger local vaccination centres. He was on car park duty. Both appointments and walk-in were advertised. The centre was so busy on Tuesday my pal was given the unenviable task of stopping people entering the car park and turning away those without an appointment.

My next jab is Friday.


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## mjr (15 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I am told fairly authoritatively (at least is NHS England-wide policy aiui) that if you are eligible 'now' and walk-in somewhere (ie without booking but with ID and local) they will (should, if capacity) make an assessment of whether you will come back 'ever' again when deciding whether to let you into the queue and vaccinate you there and then. Everyone's trying to make this work (get the % as high as possible).


I fell for that one last year and was turned away, even with an appointment, so I'd check what your local vaccinators are saying because NHS England policy is not enforced rigorously or swiftly.


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## Andy in Germany (15 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Thanks, didn't realise it was personal rather than for everyone from your post.
> 
> I'm very sure your doc knows better what's best than me or anyone else here!



Yes, it's just me. It doesn't help that some people I work with don't have great hygiene, and smoke like chimneys so they're virus magnets.


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## KnittyNorah (15 Sep 2022)

Like @Andy in Germany , I will be wearing an FFP2 or 3 mask again (to protect _myself _from all the covidiots) soon, when I am on public transport, in crowded indoor spaces and so on. Soon enough - and sooner than that, given the rising cost of heating - windows and doors will be being kept tightly closed, ventilation will be limited and virus will thus be encountered in higher concentrations indoors.


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## Gillstay (15 Sep 2022)

Just lost my first day's work as the people have covid and cancelled. Not expecting that this early. Most surprised.


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## shep (15 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> covidiots



🤣


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## Andy in Germany (15 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Like @Andy in Germany , I will be wearing an FFP2 or 3 mask again (to protect _myself _from all the covidiots) soon, when I am on public transport, in crowded indoor spaces and so on. Soon enough - and sooner than that, given the rising cost of heating - windows and doors will be being kept tightly closed, ventilation will be limited and virus will thus be encountered in higher concentrations indoors.



I think most people will look at the numbers and decide it's a low risk even if they catch it, forgetting that it seems to cause wildly different symptoms. I'm aware I have a slightly higher risk, so I'm taking appropriate precautions as advised.

I hadn't considered the closed windows issue.

Also, I've been here for several years and only just noticed that you are KnittyNorah, not KittyNorah. So much for my powers of observation.


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## KnittyNorah (15 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I think most people will look ma the numbers and decide it's a low risk even if they catch it, forgetting that it seems to cause wildly different symptoms. I'm aware I have a slightly higher risk, so I'm taking appropriate precautions as advised.
> 
> I hadn't considered the closed windows issue.
> 
> Also, I've been here for several years and only just noticed that you are KnittyNorah, not KittyNorah. So much for my powers of observation.



I'm in my 70s, so that puts me at higher risk even without any other factors. I've not had it, as far as I know, yet - the clinical trial I'm on tell me that I do not appear to have any induced-by-infection antibodies, only induced-by-vaccination ones - and I prefer _not_ to get it if at all possible. 
I can't control the behaviour of total strangers in public places and on public transport, or the air quality in those places but I can, at least to some extent, control the air that enters my lungs in those places by wearing a well-fitted FFP 2 or 3 mask at all times. 
My biggest concern is not the actual C-19 acute infection, but the insidious damage that emerges later and can remain for an unknown period of time.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Sep 2022)

Unless you take very stringent measures indeed to protect yourself - lockdown plus more besides, as I understand it it's quite unlikely that attempts to avoid infection will be successful. 

Covid is very transmissible, much more so than flu, and waves are now driven by new, immune escaping variants. So most people will catch each new, significantly different variant, regardless as to relatively minor measures like mask wearing. That will reduce your likelihood of getting infected on a given occasion, but as you remain vulnerable to the new variant until you've been infected by it, it actually doesn't make difference to your cumulative likelihood of getting it. 

Just my understanding, I'm not an epidemiologist.


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Sep 2022)

Site to book your next vaccination in Scotland is:
vacs.nhs.scot
I have booked myself in for Sunday.
I'm not in the current age slot yet, but I work for the nhs
One of my colleagues, we are in the same, non-clinical role, had hers last Saturday.
She said that contrary to her previous vacs, she had slight side effects.
I shall cycle to the vac centre and back, as per previous


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## Bazzer (15 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I am told fairly authoritatively (at least is NHS England-wide policy aiui) that if you are eligible 'now' and walk-in somewhere (ie without booking but with ID and local) they will (should, if capacity) make an assessment of whether you will come back 'ever' again when deciding whether to let you into the queue and vaccinate you there and then. Everyone's trying to make this work (get the % as high as possible).


Thank you for this. 👍
Mrs B doesn't qualify for the appointment tranche and I was unaware of the walk-ins. At least locally, the walk-ins appear to be being dealt with by pharmacies outside the booking system, so our intention is to get Mrs B jabbed tomorrow.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Sep 2022)

Invited and booked in for October with GP practice , I’m in the over 50s under 60s group. Invited for covid and flu jabs at same time. Same way last year’s boosters were done.


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## Slick (16 Sep 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Site to book your next vaccination in Scotland is:
> vacs.nhs.scot
> I have booked myself in for Sunday.
> I'm not in the current age slot yet, but I work for the nhs
> ...


Thanks for that Pat, I didn't realise you could do that and now both Mrs Slick and I are booked in for this afternoon.


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## mjr (16 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> but as you remain vulnerable to the new variant until you've been infected by it, it actually doesn't make difference to your cumulative likelihood of getting it.
> 
> Just my understanding, I'm not an epidemiologist.


Clearly. I'm not one either but share some of the training. Protecting yourself does make a difference. It might not be sufficient difference or even a significant one, but it does make a difference. Any variant may die out before you catch it. Few will catch them all.

There's also no way to be sure of the size of the difference until what most of us would consider too late, so if you don't find the protection measure too difficult and it's not snake oil, why not use it?


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## roubaixtuesday (16 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> Clearly. I'm not one either but share some of the training. Protecting yourself does make a difference. It might not be sufficient difference or even a significant one, but it does make a difference. Any variant may die out before you catch it. Few will catch them all.
> 
> There's also no way to be sure of the size of the difference until what most of us would consider too late, so if you don't find the protection measure too difficult and it's not snake oil, why not use it?



Yeah, masks are like bike helmets. 

They'll make a difference, but probably a very small difference. So use one if you want by all means, but be realistic and don't expect it to be a game changer for your risk profile. And just like helmets, there's no reason to suggest others should wear one.


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## Milzy (16 Sep 2022)

There’s plenty of studies to show the mask mandates causes more harm than good. Please don’t ask for links, take my word for it or do your own research. I’m not just talking about the virus traveling through the gaps in the rubbish material either. Psychological damage has been done to young children who weren’t able to read facial expressions. Even adults need to communicate in non verbal ways too. 
Not long back there was a women walking in the country side in the pouring rain with nobody around for miles wearing a crappy blue surgical mask. I just thought WTF? Also seen a few people with them around their chins. WTF again. 🙄


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## Ajax Bay (16 Sep 2022)

For information, the Moderna dose I got on Wednesday (AZ x 2, and then a Biontech booster last Christmas) was a 'bivalent' spikevax TM designed to reduce the chance of serious illness caused by Omicron as well as previous variants.
"Take my word for it!"
@Milzy - this is the 'how are we doing? thread. How are you doing?


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## KnittyNorah (16 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Yeah, masks are like bike helmets.
> 
> They'll make a difference, but probably a very small difference. So use one if you want by all means, but be realistic and don't expect it to be a game changer for your risk profile. And just like helmets, there's no reason to suggest others should wear one.



The difference between helmets and masks, though, is that a correctly worn helmet may offer some protection in some circumstances to the wearer, but _does not_ and _cannot_ offer protection to persons other than the wearer, whereas a correctly worn mask may offer some protection in some circumstances to the wearer (depending on its 'grade', how it is handled and how well it fits/seals) _and also _offers a degree of protection to others in the environs of the wearer, if only by reducing the absolute number of virus particles being exhaled into the airspace if the wearer is infectious but asymptomatic.


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## shep (16 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> And just like helmets, there's no reason to suggest others should wear one.



I can't believe I've just read this!

It wasn't long ago if anyone dared admitting to not wearing a mask cries of 'selfish ', 'covidiots' , 'snowflake ' and all manner of insults were cast, what's happened to change things?


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## roubaixtuesday (16 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Please don’t ask for links, take my word for it



Lol. It's nonsense that research shows mask mandates cause more harm than good, and nobody should take your word for it.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (16 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> The difference between helmets and masks, though, is that a correctly worn helmet may offer some protection in some circumstances to the wearer, but _does not_ and _cannot_ offer protection to persons other than the wearer, whereas a correctly worn mask may offer some protection in some circumstances to the wearer (depending on its 'grade', how it is handled and how well it fits/seals) _and also _offers a degree of protection to others in the environs of the wearer, if only by reducing the absolute number of virus particles being exhaled into the airspace if the wearer is infectious but asymptomatic.



Yes, absolutely. But unless most people are wearing them this effect to benefit others is vanishingly small. And we don't have society wide mask mandates, so the practical benefit to others is almost non existent, except in strictly controlled circumstances eg if visiting a vulnerable person in their home.


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## Milzy (16 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> For information, the Moderna dose I got on Wednesday (AZ x 2, and then a Biontech booster last Christmas) was a 'bivalent' spikevax TM designed to reduce the chance of serious illness caused by Omicron as well as previous variants.
> "Take my word for it!"



Report back in January


roubaixtuesday said:


> Yes, absolutely. But unless most people are wearing them this effect to benefit others is vanishingly small. And we don't have society wide mask mandates, so the practical benefit to others is almost non existent, except in strictly controlled circumstances eg if visiting a vulnerable person in their home.



Exactly this. 😚😷


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## mjr (16 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Yeah, masks are like bike helmets. [...]


Not really, no. There's too much wrong with those claims for this topic (masks are a far better bet, but still not a certainty), but feel free to raise it in the helmet thread if you'd like an explanation.



Milzy said:


> There’s plenty of studies to show the mask mandates causes more harm than good.


Look, just because someone mentioned the H word, there's no need to start confusing advice with compulsion, and wishful thinking with cold hard data!



Milzy said:


> Also seen a few people with them around their chins. WTF again. 🙄


When outdoors breathing hard, it can be better to not have the mask over one's nose/mouth to avoid steaming up glasses (hindering vision, possibly leading to injury risks), while also not having enough time for doffing it and putting it into a storage bag and then doing the reverse. While it's not perfect, the strap tension required for holding the mask tight to one's nose is usually sufficient to hold it loosely but securely under the chin for a short while. It's better than having the mask fluttering from one ear, or being dropped on the floor, but people doing it should probably clean their necks more, to avoid the mask transferring stuff between there and nose.



Ajax Bay said:


> @Milzy - this is the 'how are we doing? thread. How are you doing?


From the way that question is being avoided, I fear "badly" may be the answer. Be kind.


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## roubaixtuesday (16 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> I can't believe I've just read this!
> 
> It wasn't long ago if anyone dared admitting to not wearing a mask cries of 'selfish ', 'covidiots' , 'snowflake ' and all manner of insults were cast, *what's happened to change things?*



Vaccination.


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## KnittyNorah (16 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Yes, absolutely. But unless most people are wearing them this effect to benefit others is vanishingly small. And we don't have society wide mask mandates, so the practical benefit to others is almost non existent, except in strictly controlled circumstances eg if visiting a vulnerable person in their home.



That is perfectly true. At this point I am really not interested in offering a bunch of uncaring strangers any notional protection from me, should I be asymptomatically infected. Of course if visiting the highly vulnerable, the situation is entirely different.

However, correctly wearing a correctly-fitted FFP3 mask while I am in ill-ventilated spaces crowded with this bunch of unknown strangers does, I believe, offer *me* a useful degree of protection against an _airborne_ virus - just a wearing a lead-rubber apron offered me a useful degree of protection against certain types of ionising radiation when I was a medical physicist.

Nothing that is practical offers 100% protection from either ionising radiation or an airborne virus, but for every risk there are simple mitigating actions which enable one to decrease risk, and I believe that wearing a correctly-fitted high-grade mask or respirator when in a situation which is both crowded and poorly ventilated, is just such a simple mitigating action.

If the C-19 virus changes its modus operandi of presentation and route of infection, then I will just have work out how best to protect myself given its new behaviour, won't I? At present it is no inconvenience at all for me to wear an FFP3 mask when I am on crowded and ill-ventilated public transport - and it may just offer me that extra degree of protection I need to avoid infection.


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## Milzy (16 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> Not really, no. There's too much wrong with those claims for this topic (masks are a far better bet, but still not a certainty), but feel free to raise it in the helmet thread if you'd like an explanation.
> 
> 
> Look, just because someone mentioned the H word, there's no need to start confusing advice with compulsion, and wishful thinking with cold hard data!
> ...



I’m always kind. Doing ok, just going out to test the top model Specialized turbo saddle. Cycling is my religion.


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## Ajax Bay (16 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Report back in January





KnittyNorah said:


> correctly wearing a correctly-fitted FFP3 mask while I am in ill-ventilated spaces crowded with this bunch of unknown strangers does, I believe, offer *me* a useful degree of protection against an _airborne_ virus . . .


@Milzy are you suggesting I let you know 'how I am doing' in January? First risky activity this year (family wedding, mostly outdoor setting) resulted in a poor night's sleep and a positive test on infection day +4, staying at home (wfh) and still +ve a week later. Might I catch 'it' again: sure (contract will involve a lot of public transport/flying). But the booster I had 2 days ago should continue to mitigate the risk of serious illness.
And, like Norah, I shall be wearing an FFP2 mask for trains, undergrounds and flights, seated alongside randoms.
I agree with her - worth mitigating the risk of illness, and to a small extent unknowingly passing it to others. Outside or in shops etc: no; risk (hazard x likelihood) is already low enough.


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## Milzy (16 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> @Milzy are you suggesting I let you know 'how I am doing' in January? First risky activity this year (family wedding, mostly outdoor setting) resulted in a poor night's sleep and a positive test on infection day +4, staying at home (wfh) and still +ve a week later. Might I catch 'it' again: sure (contract will involve a lot of public transport/flying). But the booster I had 2 days ago should continue to mitigate the risk of serious illness.
> And, like Norah, I shall be wearing an FFP2 mask for trains, undergrounds and flights, seated alongside randoms.
> I agree with her - worth mitigating the risk of illness, and to a small extent unknowingly passing it to others. Outside or in shops etc: no; risk (hazard x likelihood) is already low enough.



I understand taking precautions as such will help with your anxiety. However in the beginning we were told the vaccines would stop the spread which was false. We were told they’d save lives but many with the vaccines still died anyway. Unvaccinated were called plague bearers when many of those people were more careful around others than the vaccinated who acted all invincible. Many unvaccinated I know have never known to have showed any symptoms. The big pharmaceutical companies have taken billions from the world’s governments for a product that is nowhere near as good as they said it was. People are resigning all over & heads will role for what’s happened other the last few years. Follow the science? Follow the money more like. How queer that sudden adult death syndrome is on the increase now. 🧐🤔


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## Ajax Bay (16 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> I understand taking precautions as such will help with your anxiety. However in the beginning we were told the vaccines would stop the spread which was false. We were told they’d save lives but many with the vaccines still died anyway. Unvaccinated were called plague bearers when many of those people were more careful around others than the vaccinated who acted all invincible. Many unvaccinated I know have never known to have showed any symptoms. The big pharmaceutical companies have taken billions from the world’s governments for a product that is nowhere near as good as they said it was. People are resigning all over & heads will role for what’s happened other the last few years. Follow the science? Follow the money more like. How queer that sudden adult death syndrome is on the increase now. 🧐🤔


. . .anxiety - _nope; someone else perhaps._
we were told the vaccines would stop the spread - _no; you must have misunderstood. Reduce not stop, but most impotantly reduce the numbers seriously ill or worse._
We were told they’d save lives but many with the vaccines still died anyway - _Millions__ of lives were saved (or prolonged, anyway) - "take my word for it or do your own research" . Of course unvaccinated people still died: that's what people do. About 635k per year in UK and more than 100 million annually across the world (estimate - 7+ billion world population, mean age at death <70). _
Unvaccinated were called plague bearers - _not by any sensible person: but I guess I don't know with whom you frequent._
Many unvaccinated I know have never known to have showed any symptoms. _Your deduction is . . what exactly?_
a product [vaccine] that is nowhere near as good as they said it was. _Actually, the protection offered from the first tranche of vaccines (Dec 2020 - Sep 2021) was very close to the trial data._ nnnThe swift devlopment and production at scale of effective vaccines was a testament to the scientists involved and the pharmaceutical companies.
People are resigning all over - _who had you in mind? The Prime Minister of Sweden?_
& heads will role - 
sudden adult death syndrome is on the increase now. _Do tell us more about this? Provided it doesn't make you anxious._


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## shep (17 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Vaccination.



Really?

You people who were afraid to walk down the street without a hasmat suit on not that long ago are happy to share the same airspace with someone who has had a jab or two now?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (17 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> You people



If you wish to know my views please ask rather than assume. 

As to the rest, of course the risk of exposure to covid is now massively less due to the protective effect of vaccination.


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## PaulSB (17 Sep 2022)

How am I doing with Covid? Well fine really. I've had the first two and the initial booster and yesterday had the autumn booster and flu jab. Yesterday felt a bit weird and for perhaps 30 minutes I felt like I had stepped back into lockdown, wondering why no one was taking any precautions.

I've only read the last three pages of the thread but must say I find some opinions expressed regarding vaccines, masks and precautions which some choose to take quite ridiculous smacking of the nonsense spouted by anti-vaxers. Perhaps best to just leave those of us who choose to be careful alone, it's our choice and doesn't impact your life at all.

I'm flying to the States in a month. Probably the riskiest Covid thing I've done. My wife and I will wear FFP2 masks, clean down surfaces etc. just as we did when Covid was at its peak. Does this eliminate risk? Of course not. Does it make us feel a little more comfortable that we've done all we can to avoid infection? Yes, most definitely. Has it harmed or impacted others? No.

I know of people in my wider social circle who have tested positive and then got on a plane. There are selfish, self-entitled idiots in this world and I might be unlucky enough to sit next to one of these awful individuals.

Helmets and vaccines? Well I've crashed twice sufficiently hard to smash two helmets. They work. I've had the vaccines and tested positive with only a 48 hour sore throat. Clearly the vaccines work as well.


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## Mo1959 (17 Sep 2022)

No vaccinations for me and no covid.


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## Milzy (17 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> . . .anxiety - _nope; someone else perhaps._
> we were told the vaccines would stop the spread - _no; you must have misunderstood. Reduce not stop, but most impotantly reduce the numbers seriously ill or worse._
> We were told they’d save lives but many with the vaccines still died anyway - _Millions__ of lives were saved (or prolonged, anyway) - "take my word for it or do your own research" . Of course unvaccinated people still died: that's what people do. About 635k per year in UK and more than 100 million annually across the world (estimate - 7+ billion world population, mean age at death <70). _
> Unvaccinated were called plague bearers - _not by any sensible person: but I guess I don't know with whom you frequent._
> ...



You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. It’s not even a true vaccine & was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? Why did they get immunity from been sued? I’ll bet they’ll change their company name soon as it’s so tarnished. Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. There’s a reason why it’s called Convid & the clot shot.


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## fossyant (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. It’s not even a true vaccine & was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? Why did they get immunity from been sued? I’ll bet they’ll change their company name soon as it’s so tarnished. Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. There’s a reason why it’s called Convid & the clot shot.



There are adverse reactions from any vaccination. TB, polio ect are more or less unknown viruses now - there is a reason. I know enough people who have been very ill from the virus, possibly contributed to MIL dying as she had severe CV issues, and caught covid a few months before - pneumonia put her in hosptial soon after.

Adverse reactions are an indicator af adverse reactions to a virus too. It's your DNA and general health that puts yu at risk, the DNA bit you don't know.

3 vax here and no covid, and I'm working in a high transmisablity enviromnent, as well as going out and mixing these days. Not had so much as a sniffle in 3 years. No side effects at all from the vax.


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## C R (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. It’s not even a true vaccine & was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? Why did they get immunity from been sued? I’ll bet they’ll change their company name soon as it’s so tarnished. Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. There’s a reason why it’s called Convid & the clot shot.


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## midlife (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. It’s not even a true vaccine & was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? Why did they get immunity from been sued? I’ll bet they’ll change their company name soon as it’s so tarnished. Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. There’s a reason why it’s called Convid & the clot shot.



Might have been a while since I read Ivan Roitt textbook on immunology and passed the exam but could have sworn Cominarty is a vaccine.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Sep 2022)

C R said:


>



Indeed


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## Dogtrousers (17 Sep 2022)

Just by the way ... I was in Italy earlier this week. Mandatory FFP2 wearing on public transport. Pretty close to 100% observance as far as I could see.


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## Ajax Bay (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. It’s not even a true vaccine & was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? Why did they get immunity from been sued? I’ll bet they’ll change their company name soon as it’s so tarnished. Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. There’s a reason why it’s called Convid & the clot shot.


_I appreciate I can be accused of feeding the troll, but here goes._
You’re just parroting the lying government narrative. _Nope - I made it all up_.
It’s not even a true vaccine - _please define "true vaccine" so we can understand what you are saying it isn't._
[It] was only allowed to use under emergency reasons. _In 2020 there was a world pandemic: seemed like an emergency to me._ '_Emergency' authorisation is the normal route for allowing vaccines to be rolled out when the perceived benefits merit it. The AZ vaccine was given temporary Authorisation under Regulation 174 by the UK MHRA. The various vaccines have saved millions of lives (20M a year according to the Med News link I shared ^^) It takes years to achieve full marketing authorisation - in due course I expect a number of the best vaccines will achieve that in normal course._
Why did Pfizer try to cover up information for 75 years? _No idea if they did or not - the relevance is what, please?_
Why did they get immunity from been sued? _No idea "do your own research" and let us know (on another cycling related thread please). The approach to "immunity from been [sic] sued" for vaccine development and deployment varies from country to country. Perhaps they discovered a 100% effective vaccine which conferred 'immunity' against litigation._
Wait until winter when thousands more will die or become maimed. _I have already shared the average number of people who die annually, all causes. In UK there is always a spike in the winter months (and this may be exaggerated by flu this time round - so please take a flu jab if offered). There is no evidence, emerging or theoretical, that the ongoing vaccination against COVID-19 variants (or indeed flu) is the cause of increased deaths. "Maimed" - give us a break from hyperbole. The KSI road incident estimates for GB are here: Reported-road-casualties-in-GB _
The risks outweigh the benefits for most normal people. _The risk of vaccination doesn't vary much with age. The benefits are well proven for those above an uncertain age. Below that the risk/benefit analysis is less clear._
Funny how they’ve banned the younger children from mandatory Covid vaccination in the U.K now. _Vaccination against COVID-19 has never been mandatory in UK, for any age group. For some worker groups it has sensibly been mandatory (not sure if it is still the case), but that excludes "younger children". Inform yourself of the MHRA advice please read and the JCVI) on vaccination of the younger age groups
I doubt vaccination was ever worth it for healthy under 5s. This JCVI statement will inform and even pique your clear interest in this topic._
_JCVI-update-on-advice-for-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people_
_Finally and (edit) added since you seem to be 'at risk' @Milzy __Young-people-may-be-more-likely-to-believe-in-conspiracy-theories-that-deny-covid-fact_


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## mjr (17 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just by the way ... I was in Italy earlier this week. Mandatory FFP2 wearing on public transport. Pretty close to 100% observance as far as I could see.


I was in Italy last week. Same mask rule, but well known to end at the end of the month. Compliance in Rome less than 30% I think, higher further north.


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## cougie uk (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> There’s plenty of studies to show the mask mandates causes more harm than good. Please don’t ask for links, take my word for it or do your own research. I’m not just talking about the virus traveling through the gaps in the rubbish material either. Psychological damage has been done to young children who weren’t able to read facial expressions. Even adults need to communicate in non verbal ways too.
> Not long back there was a women walking in the country side in the pouring rain with nobody around for miles wearing a crappy blue surgical mask. I just thought WTF? Also seen a few people with them around their chins. WTF again. 🙄



That's absolute rubbish. 

And just because some people don't wear them properly doesn't invalidate their use. 

We do need research done into the harm of wearing the tinfoil hats though.


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## roubaixtuesday (17 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> We do need research done into the harm of wearing the tinfoil hats though.



And action taken against the site being used to spread conspiracy theories and disinformation.


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## Julia9054 (17 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> I was in Italy last week. Same mask rule, but well known to end at the end of the month. Compliance in Rome less than 30% I think, higher further north.



Very little mask wearing in the touristy bits of the Dolomites in August. Full compliance on trains and buses in Germany and a telling off for me by a train guard as I boarded with mine still around my wrist (I forgot!)


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## midlife (17 Sep 2022)

Just as aside, at work we have stopped using FFP3 respirators for aerosol generating procedures in asymptomatic untested patients. We can wear them if we want but no longer mandated. social distancing has stopped in waiting rooms and staff rooms as well. Routine staff twice weekly LFT stopped and only test if symptoms. 

Masks still encouraged to be worn by all in hospital buildings, still wearing aprons, masks and visors to treat. 2 people off poorly with Covid at the moment so still not gone away. There are some other rule changes to do with in patients, wards where there are outbreaks, and day stay but don’t affect many people. 

Picked up prescription last week and mask wearing directed at the doctors. 

Strictly we are still working to a Covid SOP so not 100% pre Covid activity despite being told to work at 110%.


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## mjr (17 Sep 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> Very little mask wearing in the touristy bits of the Dolomites in August. Full compliance on trains and buses in Germany and a telling off for me by a train guard as I boarded with mine still around my wrist (I forgot!)


Yeah, they're crazy, those Romans!


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## Dogtrousers (17 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> I was in Italy last week. Same mask rule, but well known to end at the end of the month. Compliance in Rome less than 30% I think, higher further north.



I was in the North of Italy, so makes sense.


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## Milzy (17 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> And action taken against the site being used to spread conspiracy theories and disinformation.



There’s nothing wrong with this site. It’s well moderated & people have the freedom of speech. This forum doesn’t have unfair censorship like Twitter thankfully.


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## Mo1959 (17 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> There’s nothing wrong with this site. It’s well moderated & people have the freedom of speech. This forum doesn’t have unfair censorship like Twitter thankfully.



Some people just can’t seem to accept that we don’t all hold the same high opinions of the vaccines though and tar anyone that isn’t happy with them as raising conspiracy theories. 

I decided from day one I didn’t want any and I’m happy with my decision.


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## roubaixtuesday (17 Sep 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Some people just can’t seem to accept that we don’t all hold the same high opinions of the vaccines though and tar anyone that isn’t happy with them as raising conspiracy theories.



There are several conspiracy theories raised above.



Mo1959 said:


> I decided from day one I didn’t want any and I’m happy with my decision.



So? Lots of people take irrational risks.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Sep 2022)

*Mod Note:*
May I please remind posters that *without a reputable link* to information or statements, it's just made up stories, aka conspiracy theories.
Please refrain, cheers: "do your own research" just doesn't cut it.
This is the "Corona how are we doing thread", let's keep it on topic, please.


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## Milzy (17 Sep 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> *Mod Note:*
> May I please remind posters that *without a reputable link* to information or statements, it's just made up stories, aka conspiracy theories.
> Please refrain, cheers: "do your own research" just doesn't cut it.
> This is the "Corona how are we doing thread", let's keep it on topic, please.


Yes quite fair enough. I think we are all doing mostly ok now. I predict in the winter we may catch it again with mild symptoms. I don’t think any expert truly knows the future, only time will tell.


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## Ajax Bay (18 Sep 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Some people just can’t seem to accept that we don’t all hold the same high opinions of the vaccines though and tar anyone that isn’t happy with them as raising conspiracy theories.
> I decided from day one I didn’t want any and I’m happy with my decision.


Mo - I encourage you, even though its 600+ days since day one, to get vaccinated. When (not if) you catch it, if vaccinated you will have a much lower chance of being seriously ill. The reduction in chance will be much less if you're under 50 and of good health - in those circumstances a decision not to get vaccinated (now that the effect of vaccination on transmissibility of illness is much less with όμικρον variants) the argument for getting vaccinated for the common good is far weaker. I entirely respect your choice, just as I hope you will recognise and appreciate my concern for you.
Regarding high opinions of the vaccines, or lack of it, I prefer to be guided by the science. If you review my response to @Milzy 's outburst, I tried to base that on the best facts available and refute some assertions, the ones I understood. Some of the stuff raised smelt like 'conspiracy', quacked like 'conspiracy' - the best response is not 'tarring': that's cruel to birds. Better a nice clean shot, or several if there is more than one bird.
Keep taking the Vitamin D - I am, and hope you and yours stay well.


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## Andy in Germany (18 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Yes quite fair enough. I think we are all doing mostly ok now. I predict in the winter we may catch it again with mild symptoms. I don’t think any expert truly knows the future, only time will tell.



Bear in mind for some of us, a cold can mean Pneumonia, so we have to take anything of this nature very seriously indeed.


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Mo - I encourage you, even though its 600+ days since day one, to get vaccinated. When (not if) you catch it, if vaccinated you will have a much lower chance of being seriously ill. The reduction in chance will be much less if you're under 50 and of good health - in those circumstances a decision not to get vaccinated (now that the effect of vaccination on transmissibility of illness is much less with όμικρον variants) the argument for getting vaccinated for the common good is far weaker. I entirely respect your choice, just as I hope you will recognise and appreciate my concern for you.
> Regarding high opinions of the vaccines, or lack of it, I prefer to be guided by the science. If you review my response to @Milzy 's outburst, I tried to base that on the best facts available and refute some assertions, the ones I understood. Some of the stuff raised smelt like 'conspiracy', quacked like 'conspiracy' - the best response is not 'tarring': that's cruel to birds. Better a nice clean shot, or several if there is more than one bird.
> Keep taking the Vitamin D - I am, and hope you and yours stay well.



Science is questioning science. Conspiracy was invented by the U.S government to deflect wrong doings & secrets they don’t want the public to know/believe. Data is out there to prove those shots aren’t as safe as they first made out. I had Myocarditis on my second Pfizer & felt exhausted my eyes were like pins in my head. Looked pale. After that I’ve said I’ll never have a booster ever again. I’ve been lucky some people have had even worse reactions. My mother in law has a bad heart & her doctor instructed her not to have a Covid vaccine.
Twitter banned someone for misinformation about Covid & he sued them in court only to have his account re-instated. Mo is smart enough to decide what’s best for her.


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## Mo1959 (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Science is questioning science. Conspiracy was invented by the U.S government to deflect wrong doings & secrets they don’t want the public to know/believe. Data is out there to prove those shots aren’t as safe as they first made out. I had Myocarditis on my second Pfizer & felt exhausted my eyes were like pins in my head. Looked pale. After that I’ve said I’ll never have a booster ever again. I’ve been lucky some people have had even worse reactions. My mother in law has a bad heart & her doctor instructed her not to have a Covid vaccine.
> Twitter banned someone for misinformation about Covid & he sued them in court only to have his account re-instated. Mo is smart enough to decide what’s best for him.



Her 

I personally only know one person who died from Covid and he was our local bin lorry driver. Sedentary job, drinker and morbidly obese. However, I know two people who had strokes and one who took unexplained seizures after the vaccinations even although absolutely no history of same so I'm happy with my choice. I don't take the flu vaccine either.


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Her
> 
> I personally only know one person who died from Covid and he was our local bin lorry driver. Sedentary job, drinker and morbidly obese. However, I know two people who had strokes and one who took unexplained seizures after the vaccinations even although absolutely no history of same so I'm happy with my choice. I don't take the flu vaccine either.



I don’t take flu vaccine either my asthma has gone through keeping fit. A good friend of mine 45 years old & quite healthy had a bleed on the brain he had a terrible seizure & his 8 year old phoned an ambulance. They had to put a clip in his brain & now he suffers headaches, confusion, lethargy & irritability. This happened not long after a third booster jab. Maybe it was going to happen anyway but maybe not?


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## fossyant (19 Sep 2022)

Yes, some people will react badly to a vaccine, but those same people would possibly react badly to the actual virus. I know enough healthy eople that were hit really badly by the virus, far more than had any side effects from the jabs, so it's your personal experience that is an influence on your decisions, which you are entitled to.

I'm still seeing colleagues go off with covid, some are fine, some quite poorly. I have significant to contact with many people during the day, so I'll most likely get the flu jab and the covid one - mainly so I'm not ill. Flu hit me hard in 2019 and ruined a fair few weeks cycling


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## midlife (19 Sep 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Her
> 
> I personally only know one person who died from Covid and he was our local bin lorry driver. Sedentary job, drinker and morbidly obese. However, I know two people who had strokes and one who took unexplained seizures after the vaccinations even although absolutely no history of same so I'm happy with my choice. I don't take the flu vaccine either.



My experience is completely the opposite. Several colleagues died from covid including our young and fit electrician. 

Our organisation has 4000 employees most of which have been vaccinated / boosted. Aside from sore arms and feeling unwell I heard of nobody having anything else untoward. 

You are autonomous and can make your own choices and that's life and that's fine with me. 

My choice is that benefit outweigh risk and despite anti vaxxers calling me a sheeple I don't believe that Pfizer is not a vaccine and I don't believe that there is a government conspiracy regarding vaccine efficacy .

Social media still moderate vaccine content AFAIK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62877597


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

It’s pointless both side’s arguing the toss now. In 5 or 10 years there’s going to be some seriously huge amounts of data good & bad. Then we will have a clear picture & look back on all this.


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## Ajax Bay (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s pointless both side’s arguing the toss now. In 5 or 10 years there’s going to be some seriously huge amounts of data good & bad. Then we will have a clear picture & look back on all this.


For many people's sake (reduction in their chance of serious illness by taking advantage of vaccination) the toss need to be an informed 'toss'. So any misinformation needs to be countered. If I have offered misinformation in my comments above, I apologise.
Think there's already "seriously huge amounts of data" already collected and shared: the 'picture' is sufficiently clear now (no need to wait till "then"). Obviously in 5 years there will be more data.


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## C R (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s pointless both side’s arguing the toss now. In 5 or 10 years there’s going to be some seriously huge amounts of data good & bad. Then we will have a clear picture & look back on all this.





Ajax Bay said:


> For many people's sake (reduction in their chance of serious illness by taking advantage of vaccination) the toss need to be an informed 'toss'. So any misinformation needs to be countered. If I have offered misinformation in my comments above, I apologise.
> Think there's already "seriously huge amounts of data" already collected and shared: the 'picture' is sufficiently clear now (no need to wait till "then"). Obviously in 5 years there will be more data.


Paraphrasing Brian Clough, we'll wait five years and we'll decide that the vaccines were fine.


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## KnittyNorah (19 Sep 2022)

Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?

More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine. 

I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively _and practically_ replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...


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## MrGrumpy (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Yes quite fair enough. I think we are all doing mostly ok now. I predict in the winter we may catch it again with mild symptoms. I don’t think any expert truly knows the future, only time will tell.



So now just mild ? Wonder why that is


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## classic33 (19 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?
> 
> More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.
> 
> I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively _and practically_ replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...


Whilst not an anti-vaxxers view, there's only the tetanus jab from that list I've been given. Even there I'm looking at over 30 years ago. Like the rest in the list, it's been deemed unsafe to be given to me.* HPV aside on age grounds 

The "safer" of the two covid 19 vaccines, available locally at the time, resulted in a trip to A&E.

*I think there's something odd about me, thousands of people get given them every year with little or no side effects. And it's important to remember that there's side effects with every medication used.


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> So now just mild ? Wonder why that is



Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.


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## KnittyNorah (19 Sep 2022)

classic33 said:


> Whilst not an anti-vaxxers view, there's only the tetanus jab from that list I've been given. Even there I'm looking at over 30 years ago. Like the rest in the list, it's been deemed unsafe to be given to me.* HPV aside on age grounds
> 
> The "safer" of the two covid 19 vaccines, available locally at the time, resulted in a trip to A&E.
> 
> *I think there's something odd about me, thousands of people get given them every year with little or no side effects. And it's important to remember that there's side effects with every medication used.



I think it is fair to say that you are 'the exception that proves the rule'! It's not just thousands, though - it's multiple millions upon millions get given them. 
FWIW, I have never had any useful immune response to the rubella vaccination (several formulations of them) and in the early 1980s, had to change my career path as a consequence.


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## MrGrumpy (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.



What reason have the mutations become weaker ?


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?
> 
> More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.
> 
> I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively _and practically_ replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...



All the other vaccines are fine. They were tested properly for longer without corruption on approval. Covid vaccines were rushed out & approved for emergency use only. They may work but were massively over rated. What’s the percentage of effectiveness in reality? And does it differ with different people?


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## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> What reason have the mutations become weaker ?



It’s trying to stay alive, if the virus kills someone, it kills the host, it dies with the host. So it totally defeats the purpose.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s trying to stay alive, if the virus kills someone, it kills the host, it dies with the host. So it totally defeats the purpose.



I think you're giving viruses a bit too much credit for having a "purpose" and "trying".


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## november4 (19 Sep 2022)

I happily had the vaccine and booster, then had mild covid.

Now that I've had it and the virus has naturally denatured, I'll not have another covid booster, unless a bad variant pops up.

I've had the annual flu vac for over 20 years, couple of times the regular flu has escaped the vaccine, and I had man flu (as everyone knows, that's much more serious) 🙃


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## Andy in Germany (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.



This makes sense; it was what was said originally and it does seem to be happening. On the other hand "Long Covid" is a reality and a rather nasty, unknown quantity as yet.

And, again, it affects different people differently and is more dangerous to people with preexisting conditions: My Asthma seems to have reduced as my fitness levels increased but after my experiences with colds I'm treating C-19 with respect.

The doctor here, who is keeping an eye on the Asthma, hasn't recommended me to have a 4th booster. As he puts it "These aren't smarties: we need to respect that too." Instead he says to keep using my inhaler daily and wear an FFP2 mask in public enclosed spaces. I can live with that, although I think I need a black mask because white masks look disgusting quickly with my oily fingers...


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## C R (19 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> This makes sense; it was what was said originally and it does seem to be happening. On the other hand "Long Covid" is a reality and a rather nasty, unknown quantity as yet.
> 
> And, again, it affects different people differently and is more dangerous to people with preexisting conditions: My Asthma seems to have reduced as my fitness levels increased but after my experiences with colds I'm treating C-19 with respect.
> 
> The doctor here, who is keeping an eye on the Asthma, hasn't recommended me to have a 4th booster. As he puts it "These aren't smarties: we need to respect that too." Instead he says to keep using my inhaler daily and wear an FFP2 mask in public enclosed spaces. I can live with that, although I think I need a black mask because white masks look disgusting quickly with my oily fingers...



Only, there's no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal, we've just been "lucky" that the vaccines worked.


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## Andy in Germany (19 Sep 2022)

C R said:


> Only, there's no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal, we've just been "lucky" that the vaccines worked.



My understanding (absolutely not "expert opinion") is that this is a common development of viruses simply because they have a fast lifecycle and more lethal strains kill their host before they can be passed on and the less lethal strains don't.

As said above though, this doesn't stop "long Covid" and other nasty non-lethal effects, or danger from pre-existing conditions.


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s pointless both side’s arguing the toss now. In 5 or 10 years there’s going to be some seriously huge amounts of data good & bad. Then we will have a clear picture & look back on all this.



The data is here now. Billions of shots have been given. The data on these vaccines probably outweighs that for any other medical treatment already. The risk of covid for the unvaccinated is far higher than the risks of vaccination. 

The science and facts are very clear; those "arguing the toss" have nothing to do with that.


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Obviously in 5 years there will be more data.



It's vanishingly unlikely that data will emerge which changes the view on safety vs efficacy; there are almost no vaccines ever with significantly delayed adverse reactions.


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## Julia9054 (19 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> My understanding (absolutely not "expert opinion") is that this is a common development of viruses simply because they have a fast lifecycle and more lethal strains kill their host before they can be passed on and the less lethal strains don't.
> 
> As said above though, this doesn't stop "long Covid" and other nasty non-lethal effects, or danger from pre-existing conditions.



Covid has never been lethal enough to be under any evolutionary pressure to become less lethal. It's purely chance that the current variants are.
It is, however, under evolutionary pressure to become more transmissible - which the later variants undoubtedly are.


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## Ajax Bay (19 Sep 2022)

C R said:


> Only, there's no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal, we've just been "lucky" that the vaccines worked.


I suggest that rather more effort that 'luck' has been involved in producing (at scale) vaccines effective at reducing in serious illness (in extremis death) (aka 'worked'). But, aiui, the various vaccines have not had any effect on the CFR of the sequential dominant variants. That was nature (aka luck) - always bearing in mind that the dominant variant depended on its transmissibility for that dominance. The CFR could have increased.
Natural immunity is playing an increasing part in reducing susceptibility to symptomatic infection and the gravity of any illness.


----------



## C R (19 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I suggest that rather more effort that 'luck' has been involved in producing (at scale) vaccines effective at reducing in serious illness (in extremis death) (aka 'worked'). But, aiui, the various vaccines have not had any effect on the CFR of the sequential dominant variants. That was nature (aka luck) - always bearing in mind that the dominant variant depended on its transmissibility for that dominance. The CFR could have increased.



Indeed, that's why I used quotes.


----------



## mjr (19 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> My understanding (absolutely not "expert opinion") is that this is a common development of viruses simply because they have a fast lifecycle and more lethal strains kill their host before they can be passed on and the less lethal strains don't.


It is my understanding that this is mostly wishful thinking: of course, any mutation that kills before the contagious phase will lose, but there is no strong evolutionary pressure against becoming very lethal after the contagious phase.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (19 Sep 2022)

As In understand it, it's not clear if fundamental lethality has actually changed as most of the observed reduction is down to immunity from infection and vaccination, and it's very hard to deconvolute. 

Likewise on transmissiblity; before widespread immunity, covid evolution was driven to increase transmissibility. Now most people have some level of immunity, it's mostly driven by immune escape. So comparing current transmissiblity with early variants is very difficult.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> My understanding (absolutely not "expert opinion") is that this is a common development of viruses simply because they have a fast lifecycle and more lethal strains kill their host before they can be passed on and the less lethal strains don't.
> 
> As said above though, this doesn't stop "long Covid" and other nasty non-lethal effects, or danger from pre-existing conditions.



No it's not a 'common development'. We were just very, VERY lucky it went that way. Rapid evolution is a common characteristic of _some_ viruses; it could just as easily have evolved in another direction entirely. 

If it were a common development of all viruses, smallpox would not have killed so many over the 3 millennia of its estimated history. Nor has measles ever mutated to a milder disease - it killed almost 3 million people - mostly children - in 1980 alone


----------



## Gillstay (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> It’s trying to stay alive, if the virus kills someone, it kills the host, it dies with the host. So it totally defeats the purpose.



So Covid is the weaker strain of what then ?


----------



## Milzy (19 Sep 2022)

Gillstay said:


> So Covid is the weaker strain of what then ?



What are you talking about there’s many variants of Covid-19. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Mu and Omicron. The weaker ones may be weaker but become far more easily transmitted. 
Delta killed many & vaccines did their best with that eventually. The later variants are able to dodge the older vaccines which is why some people say the boosters were pointless.


----------



## Gillstay (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> What are you talking about there’s many variants of Covid-19. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Mu and Omicron. The weaker ones may be weaker but become far more easily transmitted.
> Delta killed many & vaccines did their best with that eventually. The later variants are able to dodge the older vaccines which is why some people say the boosters were pointless.



The original alpha variant.


----------



## DCBassman (19 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?
> 
> More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.
> 
> I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively _and practically_ replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...


Some antis seem to want 100% safety...


Milzy said:


> They were tested properly for longer


Ballcocks. Most vaccines take ten years to test because most of that time is spent getting the funding and volunteer cohorts together. This time, there was an abundance of volunteers, and the entire world threw cash at it. 
It DOES NOT take decades to test these things if you have the correct resources up front.


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## roubaixtuesday (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> The later variants are able to dodge the older vaccines



More disinformation


----------



## DCBassman (19 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> More disinformation


Correct.


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## KnittyNorah (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> All the other vaccines are fine. They were tested properly for longer without corruption on approval. Covid vaccines were rushed out & approved for emergency use only. They may work but were massively over rated. What’s the percentage of effectiveness in reality? And does it differ with different people?


*All the other vaccines are fine. They were tested properly for longer without corruption on approval*

WHAT???!!!! The development of the polio vaccine in the 1950s alone is _replete_ with 'incidents' and 'reports' of experimentation on the vulnerable without consent, of errors, mistakes, short cuts and omissions. As well as gross manufacturing errors with tragic results.

I don't think you can have read much about the development and testing of vaccines in history - and I don't mean century-old and more history - or you wouldn't be making that claim above. I am not going to refer to the work of the 17th and 18thC variolators and vaccinators as that was, culturally, a very different time with different ethics overall, but merely referring to the 20thC - even the 2nd half of the 20thC - there were/are multiple major 'incidents' with vaccine development and production.

The ethical overview, control and supervision of current vaccine development is BY FAR SUPERIOR to that of a very great deal - possibly even most - of vaccine work in the past 100 years.

Overall, though, despite the individual tragedies of these other supposedly 'properly tested' vaccines, there is no denying that the _overall_ burden of morbidity and mortality from these illnesses, upon the population and the community, is lower now, due in due large part to these vaccines, than it used to be before the vaccines. And much the same conclusion about the lower burden of morbidity and mortality due to the use of the C-19 will, I am certain, be the inevitable conclusion in the future.


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## DCBassman (19 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Overall, though, despite the individual tragedies of these other supposedly 'properly tested' vaccines, there is no denying that the _overall_ burden of morbidity and mortality from these illnesses, upon the population and the community, is lower now, due in due large part to these vaccines,


Or, to put it another way, @Milzy , if vaccines were generally a bad idea, there's a pretty good chance that a goodly slice of us wouldn't be here arguing about it...


----------



## Andy in Germany (19 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> It is my understanding that this is mostly wishful thinking:





roubaixtuesday said:


> As In understand it, it's not clear if fundamental lethality has actually changed as most of the observed reduction is down to immunity from infection and vaccination, and it's very hard to deconvolute.





KnittyNorah said:


> No it's not a 'common development'. We were just very, VERY lucky it went that way.



I hope you lot realise you've collectively destroyed my monthly attempt at optimism.

Ah, well, back to normal...


----------



## roubaixtuesday (19 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I hope you lot realise you've collectively destroyed my monthly attempt at optimism.
> 
> Ah, well, back to normal...



The vaccines are highly effective against serious disease for all variants, and a booster prevents waning over time. 

There's your optimism!


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 Sep 2022)

DCBassman said:


> Or, to put it another way, @Milzy , if vaccines were generally a bad idea, there's a pretty good chance that a goodly slice of us wouldn't be here arguing about it...



It's fairly clear that @Milzy doesn't think all vaccines are a bad idea - just Covid vaccines.
_All the other vaccines are fine _he specifically stated when asked.
No mention of the polio problem - in 1955, soon after mass polio vaccination began in the US, reports arose of patients who contracted paralytic polio about a week after being vaccinated, with the paralysis generally limited to the limb the vaccine was injected into. Investigations showed that 100,000 vaccines from Cutter and Wyeth contained live virus and had caused 40,000 cases of polio, killing 10.
_All other vaccines are fine ..._
I could continue, with further 'tales of the unexpected - vaccine selection' from all around the body - and the world.


----------



## Ajax Bay (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> @Gillstay said "So Covid is the weaker strain of what then ?" What are you talking about there’s many variants of Covid-19. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Mu and Omicron. The weaker ones may be weaker but become far more easily transmitted.
> Delta killed many & vaccines did their best with that eventually. The later variants are able to dodge the older vaccines which is why some people say the boosters were pointless.





Gillstay said:


> The original alpha variant.


@Gillstay Alpha was not the original 'wild' strain (Chine late 2019): Alpha (B1.1.7) was only designated a VOC in Sep 2020.
@Milzy Delta (B.1.617.2 ) was designated a VOC in May 2021. By then most of the most vulnerable in UK (over 75) had been doubly vaccinated, thank goodness. "Delta killed many" but way less per month than either the original or Alpha. I suggest this 'delta' (swidt) is because of the UK's superb vaccination effort (all aspects) from Dec 2020 to Jul 2021 and ongoing.

England deaths (I deprecate this metric but it is a fairly accurate one, given the error from 'with not of' and the within 28 days protocol) from:
Original = 40k (Mar - Oct 2020, 7 months))
Alpha variant = 73k (Oct 2020 - Jun 2021, 8 months)
Delta = 21k (Jun 2021 - Jan 2022, 7 months)
Since then/ Omicron = 32k (8 months)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation&areaName=England


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## Alex321 (19 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> I can't believe I've just read this!
> 
> It wasn't long ago if anyone dared admitting to not wearing a mask cries of 'selfish ', 'covidiots' , 'snowflake ' and all manner of insults were cast, what's happened to change things?



Nothing. It hasn't changed, just some people never realised that was the case.


----------



## Alex321 (19 Sep 2022)

Milzy said:


> I understand taking precautions as such will help with your anxiety. However in the beginning we were told the vaccines would stop the spread which was false.


Not by anybody who knew anything about the subject we weren't.

We were told that the vaccines would *reduce* the spread - which from all the evidence I have seen appears to have been true.




Milzy said:


> We were told they’d save lives but many with the vaccines still died anyway.



Orders of magnitude fewer than were dying without them.



Milzy said:


> Unvaccinated were called plague bearers when many of those people were more careful around others than the vaccinated who acted all invincible.


There are always people going to be throwing silly insults around.



Milzy said:


> Many unvaccinated I know have never known to have showed any symptoms.


That seriously surprises me.

I know hardly anybody, vaccinated or not, who has not shown symptoms at any time.

All the vaccinated people I know have had mild cases - no worse than a severe cold. Some of the unvaccinated have ended up in hospital, though nobody I knew personally has died from it.




Milzy said:


> The big pharmaceutical companies have taken billions from the world’s governments for a product that is nowhere near as good as they said it was.



False.

Not as good as some proponents who knew little would have had us believe. But as good as the pharmaceutical companies claimed.


----------



## Ajax Bay (19 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> We were told that . . . .


Alex, with respect, do you not think my fairly swift response - here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/page-294#post-6813897
addressed Milzy's concerns?


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## Alex321 (20 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Alex, with respect, do you not think my fairly swift response - here:
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/page-294#post-6813897
> addressed Milzy's concerns?



Probably, but I hadn't read ahead when I posted.

I also hadn't noticed I was responding to a post from Friday. 

That is one thing I find annoying about this site, the way it keeps dropping threads from your watched list, so you don't notice a couple of days of posts.


----------



## shep (20 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Nothing. It hasn't changed, just some people never realised that was the case.



Clearly something has changed for people to suggest not needing a mask now, it wasn't long ago the very same people were slating those not wearing them.


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## Alex321 (20 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> Clearly something has changed for people to suggest not needing a mask now, it wasn't long ago the very same people were slating those not wearing them.



True, but not what you were responding to, and so not what my response was about.

It was the "no reason to suggest others should wear one" that you were responding to, and I was talking about.

There is certainly much less reason to suggest they are still necessary as we move beyond the pandemic stage, but "no reason to suggest others should wear one" is as untrue now as it ever was. They still provide more protection for others than they do for the mask wearer.


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## shep (20 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> True, but not what you were responding to, and so not what my response was about.
> 
> It was the "no reason to suggest others should wear one" that you were responding to, and I was talking about.
> 
> There is certainly much less reason to suggest they are still necessary as we move beyond the pandemic stage, but "no reason to suggest others should wear one" is as untrue now as it ever was. They still provide more protection for others than they do for the mask wearer.



@roubaixtuesday seems to think there's no need?



roubaixtuesday said:


> Yeah, masks are like bike helmets.
> 
> They'll make a difference, but probably a very small difference. So use one if you want by all means, but be realistic and don't expect it to be a game changer for your risk profile. And just like helmets, there's no reason to suggest others should wear one.


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## Alex321 (20 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> @roubaixtuesday seems to think there's no need?



I know, it was your response to that post that started this exchange.

As I said, nothing in that respect has changed, but some people never did get that the main purpose of masks was protection of others.


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## fossyant (20 Sep 2022)

Just checked up on a colleague I've not seen for a few months. Still off ill with Covid after effects. Vaccinated, early 40's, regular cyclist, but suffers from bad asthma. It's knocked him for six. Fingers crossed he's back next month. He's been very cautious throughout the last two years.


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## roubaixtuesday (20 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I know, it was your response to that post that started this exchange.
> 
> As I said, nothing in that respect has changed, but some people never did get that the main purpose of masks was protection of others.



I expanded on that a little later in the thread. 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/corona-virus-how-are-we-doing.258353/page-294#post-6813527


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## DCLane (21 Sep 2022)

@fossyant - it seems to be those with moderate/severe asthma who are struggling afterwards. I'm nowhere near back to normal two months after Covid and have been told 3-6 months to recover after being hospitalised. Somehow I'm teaching four days a week from Monday.


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## shep (21 Sep 2022)

DCLane said:


> Somehow I'm teaching four days a week from Monday.



Why go back then, I'm guessing you'll be entitled to sick leave?


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## fossyant (21 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> Why go back then, I'm guessing you'll be entitled to sick leave?



I would imagine DC is still working full time, but teaching is back on campus, which adds risk and also additional commute - bike still OK ?

My colleague is off sick - so still unwell enough to work from home.


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## shep (21 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> I would imagine DC is still working full time, but teaching is back on campus, which adds risk and also additional commute - bike still OK ?
> 
> My colleague is off sick - so still unwell enough to work from home.



Surely if he feels too unwell to teach he should go off sick then?

Or go to work and not post "somehow ".


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## Jody (21 Sep 2022)

We've had the first case show up in the office again. Same colleague was hospitalised the first time round so hope it's not that bad again.


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## DCLane (21 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> Why go back then, I'm guessing you'll be entitled to sick leave?


I'm not signed off, but have a timetable which allows me balance - it's the advantage of a professional contract. The maximum I'm doing is 4 hours a day in class, mostly 1-2. Whilst the doctor's got me on increased inhalers they're not talking about signing me off at the moment.


fossyant said:


> I would imagine DC is still working full time, but teaching is back on campus, which adds risk and also additional commute - bike still OK ?
> 
> My colleague is off sick - so still unwell enough to work from home.


Bikes are all ready and in addition I've been in a couple of times already, but still mostly working from home.

I've 225-275 international postgraduates to teach from Monday. Covid's likely to be the new 'freshers flu', but at least I've had it recently. 

My teaching style is far too interactive to be apart from students which adds risk. However, taking a different approach; i.e. sat at the front with a face covering on / teaching purely online, isn't "me". I _can_ do it but the method is much more stressful than interacting and engaging with students and gets much worse results. Last year they were really good, except when a good number of them caught Chickenpox , and I'm hoping this year will be similar.


----------



## newts (21 Sep 2022)

I'm 16 months on from my first bout of covid, my asthma has all over the place (previously very mild & well controlled) fatigue is still a major factor in day to day life. I'd got back to cycling about 30 flat miles (crashing out for 2 hours on the settee Post ride), a second dose of covid has set me back along way. Pre covid I was fitter than I'd been for 30 years.


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## byegad (21 Sep 2022)

newts said:


> I'm 16 months on from my first bout of covid, my asthma has all over the place (previously very mild & well controlled) fatigue is still a major factor in day to day life. I'd got back to cycling about 30 flat miles (crashing out for 2 hours on the settee Post ride), a second dose of covid has set me back along way. Pre covid I was fitter than I'd been for 30 years.



Sorry to hear that, of course if you talk to the loonies it's either in your imagination or a conspiracy that the whole world has joined in.

A friend of mine who contracted Covid while in hospital told me he'd never felt so ill. So for me it certainly is a real disease worthy of preventive care and respect to avoid getting it. I too have asthma, my wife has another lung condition and has had pneumonia 4 times following contracting the common cold, so we are still taking precautions.


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## newts (21 Sep 2022)

byegad said:


> Sorry to hear that, of course if you talk to the loonies it's either in your imagination or a conspiracy that the whole world has joined in.


Indeed!
I feel lucky to be where I am, many people have suffered far more on their road to recovery, many others have paid the ultimate price. Learning to manage anxiety & fatigue with positivity is key, although not straightforward at times. It's very easy to over do it on the good days, then pay the price for few days after
We should be very thankful that the very high transmission/infection rates seen this year were not prevalent in 2020 when the virus was killing many everyday & we had no vaccines.


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## gbb (22 Sep 2022)

newts said:


> Indeed!
> 
> We should be very thankful that the very high transmission/infection rates seen this year were not prevalent in 2020 when the virus was killing many everyday & we had no vaccines.



Question is, are the transmission rates higher now than then ?
Is it that while transmission rates are undoubtedly high (and maybe higher than the beginning) ...but people have now got a good degree of defence now, either via vaccination or exposure.
Flip side of that, while transmission rates were high in the beginning, we had no or little natural defence...thus it killed far more people.

*[Mod Edit: hearsay statement has been deleted. Please supply a reputable link before reposting. Cheers!]*
. She caught it for the first time this month, ive never had it despite working in a very heavy populated, dare i say high risk environment. i'm often amazed i havnt had it yet.


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## roubaixtuesday (22 Sep 2022)

gbb said:


> i'm often amazed i havnt had it yet.



Infection stimulates antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well as spike antibodies. So you can test whether people have been infected, whether they've been vaccinated or not.

I can't locate the study, but from memory, in the UK, 75% of people who think they've never been infected actually have been.


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## newts (22 Sep 2022)

I don't think there is accurate data available for infection rates for most of 2020 as we were'nt testing enough. 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases
Theres a sliding scale that takes you back to April 2022

Here's some earlier screenshots of the spread from June 2021onwards


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## gbb (22 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Infection stimulates antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well as spike antibodies. So you can test whether people have been infected, whether they've been vaccinated or not.
> 
> I can't locate the study, but from memory, in the UK, 75% of people who think they've never been infected actually have been.



Thats the proviso when you say you havnt had it...you ( i ) actually mean, knowingly had it


----------



## KnittyNorah (22 Sep 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Infection stimulates antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well as spike antibodies. So you can test whether people have been infected, whether they've been vaccinated or not.
> 
> I can't locate the study, but from memory, in the UK, 75% of people who think they've never been infected actually have been.



I'm one of the 25% who haven't, according to the team managing my blood tests for the trial I'm on. I recently heard from another project that wants to suck my blood, due to my apparent resistance. I've told them they can have the blood but they'll have to organise it/pay for it all. Not travelling round the country at my own expense.


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## lazybloke (23 Sep 2022)

Damn. Tested positive.

Something has been 'off' all week, which has affected my productivity at work and caused a few issues with my manager.
My LF was negative on Wednesday but positive this morning. 

But physical symptoms have been fairly mild ; sore throat, bunged up, "snoring like a drain", headache; these seemed to peak yesterday so hopefully the worst is behind me.


----------



## fossyant (23 Sep 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> I'm one of the 25% who haven't, according to the team managing my blood tests for the trial I'm on. I recently heard from another project that wants to suck my blood, due to my apparent resistance. I've told them they can have the blood but they'll have to organise it/pay for it all. Not travelling round the country at my own expense.



You've watched the Zombie movies, where the Umbrella Corp will be chasing you to drain your blood ?


----------



## fossyant (23 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Damn. Tested positive.
> 
> Something has been 'off' all week, which has affected my productivity at work and caused a few issues with my manager.
> My LF was negative on Wednesday but positive this morning.
> ...



Unlucky.

We've still got a few tests left - son was feeling off a few weeks back and tested - just a bug and not rona.


----------



## Dogtrousers (23 Sep 2022)

I dreamt last night that my breathing was making a terrible noise, and that this was a symptom of covid.

This is what happens when your snoring penetrates your dreams.


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## Slick (23 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Damn. Tested positive.
> 
> Something has been 'off' all week, which has affected my productivity at work and caused a few issues with my manager.
> My LF was negative on Wednesday but positive this morning.
> ...



That's a pity, but glad it looks like you are through the worst already.

I know the stats regarding the percentage of false results using LFT's, but given we were testing around 130 people twice a week which kept us safe enough to stay open, I do wonder if the vaccines have had an affect on these tests, as I tested negative 3 times over a period of 4 days whilst feeling the symptoms before finally testing positive at the fourth attempt. Probably just my take on it, but more and more seem to be testing positive later in the cycle.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (23 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I dreamt last night that my breathing was making a terrible noise, and that this was a symptom of covid.
> 
> This is what happens when your snoring penetrates your dreams.



Dreaming you have Covid. 😴


----------



## Dogtrousers (23 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Dreaming you have Covid. 😴



Not confirmed. I never got as far as taking a test.


----------



## Chislenko (23 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not confirmed. I never got as far as taking a test.



Went for my booster on Wednesday, felt awful since, spent all day yesterday in bed.


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## Ajax Bay (23 Sep 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Went for my booster on Wednesday, felt awful since, spent all day yesterday in bed.


Nocebo


----------



## mjr (23 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> That's a pity, but glad it looks like you are through the worst already.


That's far from certain. Someone I know tested negative until four days after symptoms started and the worst was after that. Stopped testing positive after another four days, though, unlike my 9!


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## Bazzer (23 Sep 2022)

Next door neighbours have succumbed to the virus. They had been for a week in Lanzarote and a couple of days after their return felt crap. Since tested +ve. 
Both a bit cross about it as to date they had managed to avoid catching it Both fully vaccinated, so symptoms manageable.


----------



## mjr (23 Sep 2022)

Bazzer said:


> Next door neighbours have succumbed to the virus. They had been for a week in Lanzarote and a couple of days after their return felt crap. Since tested +ve.
> Both a bit cross about it as to date they had managed to avoid catching it Both fully vaccinated, so symptoms manageable.


More victims of (air)port waiting areas? They still don't seem to have the right balance between security and ventilation, so seem high risk places for this.


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## DCBassman (23 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> That's far from certain. Someone I know tested negative until four days after symptoms started and the worst was after that. Stopped testing positive after another four days, though, unlike my 9!


Just like us. Felt really bad, was -ve. Days later, +ve. Fulled vaxed, me 3 Mrs DCB 4, plus IV antibodies.


----------



## KnittyNorah (23 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Nocebo



I agree - but it seems unkind and even unwise to simply dismiss it as such out of hand, as a small minority of people _will _have real side-effects. 
In addition, we've now accepted (albeit often reluctantly!) that placebo effect is real - and we need to do the same with nocebo in order to improve our handling and understanding of it.


----------



## shep (23 Sep 2022)

What happens now regarding work with Covid?

Obviously if too ill to work whatever sick pay scheme someone has will kick in but am I correct in thinking that if you're ok to work you can go in?


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## Dogtrousers (23 Sep 2022)

My wife had her latest jab today (Moderna). She's fine so far. Mine is next week


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## Julia9054 (23 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> What happens now regarding work with Covid?
> 
> Obviously if too ill to work whatever sick pay scheme someone has will kick in but am I correct in thinking that if you're ok to work you can go in?



I think this is the case unless your workplace says something more specific. 
I don't like it. I would prefer a clear rule. I would feel guilty for being at home when not too unwell and dumping on my colleagues and also guilty if I go in and infect them.


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## mjr (23 Sep 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I think this is the case unless your workplace says something more specific.
> I don't like it. I would prefer a clear rule. I would feel guilty for being at home when not too unwell and dumping on my colleagues and also guilty if I go in and infect them.


If you're going to feel guilty either way, far better not to infect them IMO. This really is still no fun to catch.

I think most responsible employers still tell workers to stay away if testing positive because they're likely to be infectious and even so-called "mild" omicron is still capable of making others too sick to work (so disrupting production and costing them more money). It's not even a good idea to work from home while you've got it, as omicron seems often to include significant brain fog and the decision-making can be surprisingly awful.

Legally, bad bosses can now insist workers keep working even if testing positive, but if you work for such people, you've probably got bigger problems!


----------



## Fab Foodie (23 Sep 2022)

Yesterday morning....







Feeling pretty crap, but not the worst flu I have had by a long way.
We have two 70 y/o rellies over from the USA at the moment so doing some serious isolating before they go (hopefully) back next week.
shoot timing all-round.

It's not like I have been anywhere busy, just the local Tesco!


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## Fab Foodie (23 Sep 2022)

*Mod Edit:*
Linky with no explanation whatsoever deleted 
@Fab Foodie you can do better


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## lazybloke (23 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> What happens now regarding work with Covid?
> 
> Obviously if too ill to work whatever sick pay scheme someone has will kick in but am I correct in thinking that if you're ok to work you can go in?



Self certify if you need, up to whatever the legal limit is now. Think it was increased in 2020.

I cancelled my a/l today, and rebooked it as covid sickness absence; spent most of the day in bed but will aim to work from home on Monday.


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## Ajax Bay (23 Sep 2022)

Hospital admissions (England) - virtually all the rise is over 65s. About half and half 'with' / 'because of'.
About 90% BA5, 8% BA4 and a little BA2. No new variants (yet).
Everyone wave. Maybe better now than in 3 months (edit to make clear: waves seem to have a low-low period of 4 months, so we can but hope that it'll be back down by Christmas).




ONS also suggests infections on increase wef 9 Sep - varies across the UK (Scotland and NI down, Wales up, England slightly up)
Main rise is in 'back-to-measles camp' 7-12 year olds. The other age groups fairly neutral.


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## Bazzer (23 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> More victims of (air)port waiting areas? They still don't seem to have the right balance between security and ventilation, so seem high risk places for this.


I don't know. 
From what they have said, they have both been generally careful. - One of their adult daughters has health problems. But when my wife returned from Crete 10 days ago, there was no mask wearing on the plane except for my wife and her friend. So personally I wouldn't be surprised if the more confined space of the aircraft was the opportunity for transmission.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Self certify if you need, up to whatever the legal limit is now. Think it was increased in 2020.
> 
> I cancelled my a/l today, and rebooked it as covid sickness absence; spent most of the day in bed but will aim to work from home on Monday.



Ha! Exactly the same as me then...must be something in the air....


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## Slick (23 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> That's far from certain. Someone I know tested negative until four days after symptoms started and the worst was after that. Stopped testing positive after another four days, though, unlike my 9!


Pretty much mirrors my own experience, but I was reacting to information shared. 


shep said:


> What happens now regarding work with Covid?
> 
> Obviously if too ill to work whatever sick pay scheme someone has will kick in but am I correct in thinking that if you're ok to work you can go in?


My work, which is a non departmental government body expects you in unless you are unfit. Covid is to be treated like any other illness.


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## Alex321 (23 Sep 2022)

Julia9054 said:


> I think this is the case unless your workplace says something more specific.
> I don't like it. I would prefer a clear rule. I would feel guilty for being at home when not too unwell and dumping on my colleagues and also guilty if I go in and infect them.



In our company, we now almost all have hybrid working as the norm, so the expectation is that if you are ill (with anything), but well enough to work, you will just work from home until no longer ill.


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## lazybloke (23 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> Pretty much mirrors my own experience, but I was reacting to information shared.
> 
> My work, which is a non departmental government body expects you in unless you are unfit. *Covid is to be treated like any other illness.*


It's only guidance to self-isolate now, daily deaths are a fraction of what they were, but I think covid is still a notifiable disease, and employers have a duty of care to their workforce so should be promoting self-isolation. All seems a bit muddled.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Sep 2022)

PK99 said:


> Jab #6 Booked!



Two doses of AZ and two doses of the Virus itself will suffice for me. If I get a fifth dose it will be the Virus again, not another vaccine.


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## Chislenko (24 Sep 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Two doses of AZ and two doses of the Virus itself will suffice for me. If I get a fifth dose it will be the Virus again, not another vaccine.



Is that the way it works John. I had a booster called Spikevax on Wednesday and have felt like crap ever since. As that was my fourth are you saying they actually give you the virus in a way to build up your immunity to it?


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## vickster (24 Sep 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Is that the way it works John. I had a booster called Spikevax on Wednesday and have felt like crap ever since. As that was my fourth are you saying they actually give you the virus in a way to build up your immunity to it?



Info about how vaccines work 
https://uk.wedovaccines.com/about-vaccines#how

Spikevax = Moderna vaccine


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## Ajax Bay (24 Sep 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I had a booster called Spikevax on Wednesday and have felt like crap ever since.


The Moderna 'Spikevax' is a bivalent vaccine (which I think the NHS are generally using for all 'autumn boosters'. It's (literally) designed to provide protection from serious illness from both the original and the Omicron variants.


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## MontyVeda (24 Sep 2022)

For a lot of people the big question is _Can I afford to not go to work_? I know I can't and if I did test positive, I'd be going in if physically able to.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> For a lot of people the big question is _Can I afford to not go to work_? I know I can't and if I did test positive, I'd be going in if physically able to.



Not "wow" at you, for the record: I didn't realise that the UK didn't have support for people when they test positive.


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## Pat "5mph" (24 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Not "wow" at you, for the record: I didn't realise that the UK didn't have support for people when they test positive.


A while back the government (Boris was PM) said that if you test positive but are well enough to work, you must go to work.
Your employer is not obliged to pay sick leave anymore because of Coronavirus.
Lots of employers don't pay sick leave, but there was extra government support for testing positive during the pandemic.
I currently work for the NHS: we get paid while off sick, we aren't allowed to work while testing positive, but a coronavirus related absence will now count towards our sickness record, just like any other illness.
When I was working in the hospitality industry it was not uncommon to come to work half dead (lol), no shift worked, no pay.


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## MontyVeda (24 Sep 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Not "wow" at you, for the record: I didn't realise that the UK didn't have support for people when they test positive.



Statutory Sick Pay (currently around £100 a week) doesn't even cover most peoples' rent/mortgage... and for the first three days of illness, you get sweet FA, and if the first day of illness is a Friday, day two is counted from the Monday. Of course an employer can be more generous if they choose to, but many will only pay out the bare legal minimum, which can still leave people in real financial hardship.


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## Alex321 (24 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> Statutory Sick Pay (currently around £100 a week) doesn't even cover most peoples' rent/mortgage... and for the first three days of illness, you get sweet FA, and if the first day of illness is a Friday, day two is counted from the Monday. Of course an employer can be more generous if they choose to, but many will only pay out the bare legal minimum, which can still leave people in real financial hardship.



And it tends to be those in low paid jobs to start with whose employers only pay out the statutory minimum. Which makes for even more hardship.

I've always worked in IT, with well paid "professional" class jobs, and I've never had less then 3 months at full pay, followed by a period at half pay.

But there was a period when one of my daughters was working a job only a little above minimum wage, and her employer only paid SSP.


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## Slick (24 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> It's only guidance to self-isolate now, daily deaths are a fraction of what they were, but I think covid is still a notifiable disease, and employers have a duty of care to their workforce so should be promoting self-isolation. All seems a bit muddled.


My work is quite clear, do not test, they don't want to know. If you are fit, come to work, if you aren't, stay at home.


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## MontyVeda (25 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> My work is quite clear, do not test, they don't want to know. If you are fit, come to work, if you aren't, *stay at home*.



but will they pay you, or fleece you?


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> My work is quite clear, do not test, they don't want to know. If you are fit, come to work, if you aren't, stay at home.



Another shoot employer


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## MontyVeda (25 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Another shoot employer



...working within the constrains of employment law.

And whenever the employees try to improve things, the News loves highlighting the disruption being caused by striking workers.


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## Slick (25 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> but will they pay you, or fleece you?


Full pay for sickness.


Ming the Merciless said:


> Another shoot employer


Not really, we have moved on and Covid is a different animal now we have the vaccine. I was one of 2 people that worked right through, but everyone else got close to 8 months of furlough on full pay, and when we did return, any Covid related illness didn't go against your sickness record until earlier this year when everyone had the opportunity for 3 jags. Pretty fair to my mind.


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## Slick (25 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> ...working within the constrains of employment law.
> 
> And whenever the employees try to improve things, the News loves highlighting the disruption being caused by striking workers.



Don't even go there with striking workers, we haven't the stomach for it.


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## classic33 (25 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> Full pay for sickness.
> 
> Not really, we have moved on and Covid is a different animal now we have the vaccine. I was one of 2 people that worked right through, but everyone else got close to 8 months of furlough on full pay, and when we did return, any Covid related illness didn't go against your sickness record until earlier this year when everyone had the opportunity* for 3 jags.* Pretty fair to my mind.


Three!
Even a certain Welshman, brought to live in Yorkshire, only had two.


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## Slick (25 Sep 2022)

classic33 said:


> Three!
> Even a certain Welshman, brought to live in Yorkshire, only had two.



I've actually had 4 now, but its too boring a story to regail on here.


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## SpokeyDokey (26 Sep 2022)

66 here - 3rd jab booked for 14 October.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Another shoot employer



In what respect?

The "do not test" is government advice now, and I don't think anywhere in the UK now has free tests available, so you would have to pay for them if you were going to.

And "If you are fit, come to work, if not stay home" seems perfectly reasonable and normal.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> 66 here - 3rd jab booked for 14 October.



My 4th is booked for 27th October - my wife has hers on the 1st. I am 63, my wife is 72. Both in South Wales.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> And "If you are fit, come to work, if not stay home" seems perfectly reasonable and normal.



That’s not what the employer said in my interpretation but clearly you have a different interpretation. We will just have to agree that we have different interpretations of how shoot or not the employer is being.


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## mjr (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> The "do not test" is government advice now,


Only for under 18s, or have you seen otherwise?


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> Only for under 18s, or have you seen otherwise?



https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/get-tested-for-coronavirus/


> What you can do if you’re not eligible for a free COVID-19 test​You’re no longer advised to get tested. Find out:
> 
> 
> what to do if you have COVID-19 symptoms or have tested positive for COVID-19
> ...


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> That’s not what the employer said in my interpretation but clearly you have a different interpretation. We will just have to agree that we have different interpretations of how shoot or not the employer is being.



I wasn't interpreting anything. That was a direct quote from the post you had responded to.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I wasn't interpreting anything. That was a direct quote from the post you had responded to.



You were interpreting whether the employer was being shoot or had you forgotten that bit? 🙄


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You were interpreting whether the employer was being shoot or had you forgotten that bit? 🙄



No, I was asking why you thought the employer was shoot. And pointing out that I thought the quoted statement was perfectly reaonsable.


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## Slick (26 Sep 2022)

I'm sure I've said in the past, but might be worth repeating that I work for a government body, and as such follow government guidelines to the letter.


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## Ajax Bay (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> @Slick said "My work is quite clear, do not test, they don't want to know. If you are fit, come to work, if you aren't, stay at home."
> "If you are fit, come to work, if not stay home" seems perfectly reasonable and normal.





Ming the Merciless said:


> That’s not what the employer said in my interpretation but clearly you have a different interpretation. We will just have to agree that we have different interpretations of how shoot or not the employer is being.



Minging one - In what way is "If you are fit, come to work, if not stay home" "shoot"? How about articulating, briefly what a good employer's policy should be? Help us understand your perspective which leads you to describe such an employer's policy as 'shoot'.
They cannot require employees to test (unless a health or social care setting); tests are no longer freely available. Do you think people should test for flu?
Or is this just an 'interpretation' problem you have?


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> No, I was asking why you thought the employer was shoot. And pointing out that I thought the quoted statement was perfectly reaonsable.



Look if you can’t see it, given the same information, then nothing I say is going to change your mind. I think the employer should take their employees health more seriously, you don’t. That’s the sum of it.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Minging one - In what way is "If you are fit, come to work, if not stay home" "shoot"? How about articulating, briefly what a good employer's policy should be? Help us understand your perspective which leads you to describe such an employer's policy as 'shoot'.
> They cannot require employees to test (unless a health or social care setting); tests are no longer freely available. Do you think people should test for flu?
> Or is this just an 'interpretation' problem you have?



If an employee has tested positive then they are not fit to come into work are they? Yet the employer doesn’t want to know about that and says come in anyway. That’s shoot behaviour in my book.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If an employee has tested positive then they are not fit to come into work are they? Yet the employer doesn’t want to know about that and says come in anyway. That’s shoot behaviour in my book.



Well that is more or less government guidance now
Try to stay at home and avoid contact with other people​If you have symptoms of a respiratory infection, such as COVID-19, and you have a high temperature or do not feel well enough to go to work or carry out normal activities, try to stay at home and avoid contact with other people, until you no longer have a high temperature (if you had one) or until you no longer feel unwell.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Look if you can’t see it, given the same information, then nothing I say is going to change your mind. I think the employer should take their employees health more seriously, you don’t. That’s the sum of it.



Not really. 

You missed out entirely referencing the part which you have now explained to Ajax Bay which is what you thought made the employer shoot.

Not many will be testing, but I agree that if you have tested positive, then you shouldn't be going not an office - but then I'd also agree with you that in that circumstance you are not "fit to work", so it would fall under the part I quoted.

The only bit I would have doubts about is the "Don't want to know".


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> You missed out entirely referencing the part which you have now explained to Ajax Bay which is what you thought made the employer shoot.



Alex you clearly can’t see the difference, for whatever reason, even your post above misses the nuance. Have a think on it, rather than just be contrarian for the sake of it.


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## Chislenko (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Have a think on it, rather than just be contrarian for the sake of it.



Seems to be an unfortunate by product of internet forums in general nowadays 😟


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## Ajax Bay (26 Sep 2022)

Slick said:


> My work, which is a non departmental government body expects you in unless you are unfit. Covid is to be treated like any other illness. [They reiterate] My work is quite clear, do not test, they don't want to know. If you are fit, come to work, if you aren't, stay at home.





Ming the Merciless said:


> If an employee has tested positive then they are not fit to come into work are they? Yet the employer doesn’t want to know about that and says come in anyway. That’s shoot behaviour in my book.


Employee: 'I'm feeling unwell'
Employer: 'Are you too unwell to work (at place of work)? If so please don't come into work: we care about your health but will not be intrusive about what illness you are suffering from, that is medical-in-confidence between you and your healthcare provider.'
If no, come to work.'
Have a think on it! Got many employees, have you, @Ming the Merciless ?


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## mjr (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/get-tested-for-coronavirus/


That says you're not advised to test. It does not advise "do not test", like you claimed.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Employee: 'I'm feeling unwell'
> Employer: 'Are you too unwell to work (at place of work)? If so please don't come into work: we care about your health but will not be intrusive about what illness you are suffering from, that is medical-in-confidence between you and your healthcare provider.'
> If no, come to work.'
> Have a think on it! Got many employees, have you, @Ming the Merciless ?



That’s not what I stated.

Try,

Employee “I’ve tested positive for C19 but feel fine”
Employer “Don‘t want to know about positive result, if you feel fine come on in“

Subtle nuanced difference you are also missing. You clearly think the above is fine as does Alex , I happen to think not.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Sep 2022)

Other examples got Chicken Pox but feel fine, got Measles but feel fine. In both cases come on into work and crack on Is the employers attitude.


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## Bazzer (26 Sep 2022)

Certainly in the case of my employer, measles and chicken pox, are notifiable. Also with Covid, certainly people on our team, our two joint bosses want you to work from home to protect others who may be, or have close connections to someone, who is vulnerable.- Although I appreciate this is not an option for some occupations.


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## Pat "5mph" (26 Sep 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> 66 here - 3rd jab booked for 14 October.


Did you skip one?
I am almost 60, just had jab number 4 - a wee bit earlier, skipped the queue


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## Chislenko (26 Sep 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Did you skip one?
> I am almost 60, just had jab number 4 - a wee bit earlier, skipped the queue



Yes, just had number 4 myself.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Alex you clearly can’t see the difference, for whatever reason, even your post above misses the nuance. Have a think on it, rather than just be contrarian for the sake of it.



Perhaps you could try actually making yourself clear, rather than talking in riddles.

I am not being contrarian, I honestly have no real idea what you are getting at here.

You appear to be reading something between the lines, but I have no idea what. Even in actual face to face conversation, I have always been poor at picking up nuances and inferences, in a text medium such as a forum, I'm probably even worse.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> That says you're not advised to test. It does not advise "do not test", like you claimed.



True - but combined with the fact you cannot get free tests, the effect is that you are not normally expected to test any more.

It is not actually saying DO NOT test, but it is saying that if you want to, then you will have to pay for it yourself (and you cannot send results to the NHS if you do).


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## KnittyNorah (26 Sep 2022)

I'll be booking my 5th Jab any time after 3rd October. I'm 75 but with no other vulnerabilities.

I had jabs in February and April last year, then no.3 in October last year. In March this year I enrolled on a clinical trial for the bivalent vaccine; I was supposed to have it in March but I developed shingles so had to wait until 2 weeks after the rash came out. So I had my trial vaccine - vaccine number 4 - in April. It was either bog-standard Spikevax, or the new bivalent one; I don't know which. I've been having blood tests at ever-lengthening intervals since then and they want a blood test before the autumn booster, so I get my blood drawn on 3rd October and book my booster for some time after that. I'll probably go and get my flu vax tomorrow.


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## Alex321 (26 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> That’s not what I stated.
> 
> Try,
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for falsely deciding what I think.


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## Slick (26 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Not really.
> 
> You missed out entirely referencing the part which you have now explained to Ajax Bay which is what you thought made the employer shoot.
> 
> ...



To be fair, the don't want to know bit was more my spin on it than them.


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## Slick (26 Sep 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Did you skip one?
> I am almost 60, just had jab number 4 - a wee bit earlier, skipped the queue



Me too. 

I followed your instructions and booked on-line. They knew I was too young but said it wasn't my fault that the system accepted the booking so gave me that jag anyway.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Sep 2022)

IndieSAGE (today)
A new wave is underway - obvious in hospital admission data (vast majority over 65s NB high % vaccinated thank goodness) backed up by lagging ONS data on estimated infection rates UK-wide. Booster uptake good - 30+% O/75s and 20+% O/65s.





Of those in hospital who have tested +ve, about 2/3rds are in NOT because of COVID-19. Also over a 1/3 of those in hospital are thought to have caught it IN hospital.

Most secondary school children have suffered at least one infection: the benefit is antibodies; the downside is the risk of 'Long Covid'. Currently about 100k in UK (all U18s) of which 13k are affected 'a lot'. There are 14M U18s in UK (iirc).


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

I genuinely think most people couldn't care less anymore, I never did to be fair, lets face it when was the last time anything was on the news for example?

It seems we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask, I recently went to the Hospital and no staff wore masks and very few patients.


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> I genuinely think most people couldn't care less anymore, I never did to be fair, lets face it when was the last time anything was on the news for example?
> 
> It seems we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask, I recently went to the Hospital and no staff wore masks and very few patients.



It's on the news at the moment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63088223

I recently visited my father in CCU and wore a mask, as were all of the staff even if they weren't with patients.


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## C R (30 Sep 2022)

Got my booster today, spikevax. Fourth dose so far, as I am type 1 diabetic. Fairly easy to get an appointment for me, but struggling to find a place for our 11 year old son's second dose which is less than an hour round-trip.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Sep 2022)

Got my latest jab at lunchtime today. Pfizer. 

If it wasn't for the fact that I felt the needle I'd question whether I'd had it. On all previous ones I've got a sore arm.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Sep 2022)

Thank you for adding value @shep
If you never cared, you can't now care less, iyswim.
Is that the royal 'we', as in "we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask"?
The ONS stats suggest that about 20% [Edit: 'say they'] are still wearing masks in 'close' situations. Remember they are wearing their masks 'for others': as masks of the simple design have limited effect on reducing the wearer's susceptibility. It doesn't matter if they don't realise this: those near them benefit (statistically, the more so as infection rates increase over the next month(s).
With regard to your hospital experience, the lack of mitigation measures against transmission in hospital was cited as one of the reasons for the nosocomial infection rate.


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Got my latest jab at lunchtime today. Pfizer.
> 
> If it wasn't for the fact that I felt the needle I'd question whether I'd had it. On all previous ones I've got a sore arm.



Give it time


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Thank you for adding value @shep
> If you never cared, you can't now care less, iyswim.
> Is that the royal 'we', as in "we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask"?
> The ONS stats suggest that about 20% are still wearing masks in 'close' situations. Remember they are wearing their masks 'for others': as masks of the simple design have limited effect on reducing the wearer's susceptibility. It doesn't matter if they don't realise this: those near them benefit (statistically, the more so as infection rates increase over the next month(s).
> With regard to your hospital experience, the lack of mitigation measures against transmission in hospital was cited as one of the reasons for the nosocomial infection rate.



Never one to argue with official stats but I can only speak as I find, when down the local no-one wears a mask, when travelling on the bus to town for the footy maybe 2 or 3, when in the pubs before the game there's none and at the ground (which admittedly only holds 30k) you may see a few but I can categorically state wherever I go nowhere near 20% of people are wearing masks. 

I went to the 02 arena earlier in the year on the train and again throughout the weekend which included many tube journeys and the concert itself very few people wore them, I really would like to know where the 1 in 5 stat comes from.


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

I would agree on the 1/5, on packed London commuter trains/tubes only a handful will be wearing a mask based on my experience yesterday of going to the office. I do not myself wear a mask either (although I happily did when it was mandated).
I was at the GP today, a couple in the waiting room were, but neither myself nor the GP did. Seeing a knee surgeon privately recently, he was wearing one and asked if he would prefer me to. He said no, and that as a surgeon of many years he is so used to wearing one, he even forgets he has it on!


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> It's on the news at the moment.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63088223
> 
> I recently visited my father in CCU and wore a mask, as were all of the staff even if they weren't with patients.



I'm sure in all cases where vulnerable people are masks will be worn, I would myself, but are you telling me you genuinely see 1in5 people wearing masks where you go?

If you are then it's not for me to tell you any different, just get any sporting events up from last week and you'll see where I'm coming from.


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## C R (30 Sep 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Got my latest jab at lunchtime today. Pfizer.
> 
> If it wasn't for the fact that I felt the needle I'd question whether I'd had it. On all previous ones I've got a sore arm.



Same here, shot in the morning, arm still fine, fingers crossed.


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> I would agree on the 1/5, on packed London commuter trains/tubes only a handful will be wearing a mask based on my experience yesterday of going to the office. I do not myself wear a mask either (although I happily did when it was mandated).
> I was at the GP today, a couple in the waiting room were, but neither myself nor the GP did. Seeing a knee surgeon privately recently, he was wearing one and asked if he would prefer me to. He said no, and that as a surgeon of many years he is so used to wearing one, he even forgets he has it on!



Coincidently that's why I was at hospital for a follow up on a partial knee replacement I had in July, no masks anywhere but obviously not high risk.


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> I'm sure in all cases where fulnerable people are masks will be worn, I would myself, but are you telling me you genuinely see 1in5 people wearing masks where you go?
> 
> If you are then it's not for me to tell you any different, just get any sporting events up from last week and you'll see where I'm coming from.



No as I've posted, but you said no staff were wearing


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## Ajax Bay (30 Sep 2022)

See my edit in Post #4577 ^ ^
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...es/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/lifestyle
and here's the text:
" . . . the proportion of people who had used a face covering when outside their home [was] 25% in September. Of those . . . over half (52%) reported using it always or often,. . . Around one in five (20%) adults who had travelled on public transport [recently] said they wore a face covering for part or all of their last journey."
Anecdatum: In the whole pub on Wednesday ('ride to the pub') only one person was wearing a mask: he was behind the bar.


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## SpokeyDokey (30 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> I genuinely think most people couldn't care less anymore, I never did to be fair, lets face it when was the last time anything was on the news for example?
> 
> It seems we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask, I recently went to the Hospital and no staff wore masks and very few patients.



It’s fell off of my radar too.

Recent visits to hospital have been varied. In corridors no masks. In wards, supposed to wear masks, started off wearing them but soon stopped as others hadn't bothered - I didn't particularly want to wear one.

In non-invasive (ie not open surgery) 'theatres' masks were on except not for me as I was having GA.


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> See my edit in Post #4577 ^ ^
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...es/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/lifestyle
> and here's the text:
> " . . . the proportion of people who had used a face covering when outside their home [was] 25% in September. Of those . . . over half (52%) reported using it always or often,. . . Around one in five (20%) adults who had travelled on public transport [recently] said they wore a face covering for part or all of their last journey.".


not sure where they found those people? Has the data been cut on a sub sample of the vulnerable or something.
As said I used a mask in CCU in September, but I don't routinely unless required


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> No as I've posted, but you said no staff were wearing



They weren't where I went?


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## vickster (30 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> They weren't where I went?



Maybe not in an outpatients department, still required on (some) wards. 
I do anticipate staff will be wearing masks on the ward when I have my next knee op end October at private hospital


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## shep (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> Maybe not in an outpatients department, still required on (some) wards.
> I do anticipate staff will be wearing masks on the ward when I have my next knee op end October at private hospital



I'm sure they will.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> Has the data been cut on a sub sample of the vulnerable or something


Your confusing the ONS with the OBR and its sub-sample of fiscal probity, perhaps.
No - this is a reputable nation-wide study, fortnightly gathering data and reporting findings, which has been going for over two years. In the spring, the figure was 65%: now down to 25%. But bear in mind this is what people are saying, which may be at variance with their actions.


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## Mike_P (30 Sep 2022)

Got my third jab in a couple of weeks. Did a double take at the local bus the other day as the driver was wearing a mask which was always pretty rare at the heights of Covid as they had a protection screen fitted; not any longer it looked.


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## Asa Post (30 Sep 2022)

I got the Spikevax booster on Tuesday. Felt exhausted by teatime and fell asleep in the chair. Groggy all day Wednesday. Much better yesterday. Felt fine today - so I did a 30 mile ride and found that my legs thought that it was still too soon for such silliness. At least I had enough sense to ride on the turbo, so wasn't panicking about not getting home.

This was the fourth jab, and the first time I've had a bad reaction.


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## Pat "5mph" (30 Sep 2022)

shep said:


> t seems we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask, I recently went to the Hospital and no staff wore masks and very few patients.


I work in a hospital: mask wearing is mandatory in clinical settings, not in other places.
If I'm in a ward or clinic, I have to wear a mask, but if I'm a public area, or lone working, I don't need to.
NHS Scotland.


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## Andy in Germany (30 Sep 2022)

Pretty much 100% masks on the train. Conductor told one non-wearer that it's not his problem, but the police check and there are 150€ fines for non-compliance.

Also visited my previous employer, a theatre and arts centre and masks are mandatory there.


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## Leedsbusdriver (30 Sep 2022)

Had my Spikevax booster two weeks ago. No side affects, apart from the obligatory sore arm for 24hrs.


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## DRM (30 Sep 2022)

Asa Post said:


> I got the Spikevax booster on Tuesday. Felt exhausted by teatime and fell asleep in the chair. Groggy all day Wednesday. Much better yesterday. Felt fine today - so I did a 30 mile ride and found that my legs thought that it was still too soon for such silliness. At least I had enough sense to ride on the turbo, so wasn't panicking about not getting home.
> 
> This was the fourth jab, and the first time I've had a bad reaction.



Had my 4th jab on Wednesday it knocked the stuffing out of me, and been a bit dense too making silly mistakes as well as the sore arm and lethargy


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## mjr (30 Sep 2022)

vickster said:


> It's on the news at the moment.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63088223
> 
> I recently visited my father in CCU and wore a mask, as were all of the staff even if they weren't with patients.


Also on breakfast news this morning, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-63058789


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## PaulSB (1 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> I genuinely think most people couldn't care less anymore, I never did to be fair, lets face it when was the last time anything was on the news for example?
> 
> It seems we all go around as normal and never think of wearing a mask, I recently went to the Hospital and no staff wore masks and very few patients.



Everywhere medical I visit has required masks since lockdown finished. This includes GP blood clinic, practice nurse appointment, reception area, dentist, optician, local pharmacy and annual hospital visit.

I'm not sure there's any point to this now except perhaps hospitals. I'm happy to oblige anywhere which would like me to use a mask.

One of my cycling buddies has completely avoided Covid until last week. No positives etc. He had to visit his 92 year old mother in hospital 2 days out of 3. He's now very unwell and positive as his wife who has also avoided infection until this week.


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## Ajax Bay (1 Oct 2022)

PaulSB said:


> One of my cycling buddies has completely avoided Covid until last week. No positives etc. He had to visit his 92 year old mother in hospital 2 days out of 3. He's now very unwell and positive as his wife who has also avoided infection until this week.


I hope it doesn't get worse for either of them. Perhaps they can reflect, grasping for the positives, that their vaccinations and boosters are likely to have reduced the severity of this illness.
There is no doubt that the hospital environment is risky and I expect mitigations will be enhanced this month across the NHS, which will include (effectively) mandatory masking. But when considering that, they have to recognise the adverse effect on communications that masks have.
Chair of the public health medicine committee BMA [noted, 30 Sep] that the Government's recent call for the public to wear masks in crowded places was "especially important in healthcare settings where infection rates and risk of contracting the virus are high".
At least your friend was able to visit his mother in hospital, which would have been difficult or impossible 2 years ago.
For those who are anxious or vulnerable I'd recommend wearing FFP3 mask when they have to come into close contact with strangers.


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## shep (1 Oct 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Pretty much 100% masks on the train. Conductor told one non-wearer that it's not his problem, but the police check and there are 150€ fines for non-compliance.
> 
> Als visited my previous employer, a theatre and arts centre and masks are mandatory there.



This is jn Germany though isn't it so not really relevant.


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## shep (1 Oct 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> I work in a hospital: mask wearing is mandatory in clinical settings, not in other places.
> If I'm in a ward or clinic, I have to wear a mask, but if I'm a public area, or lone working, I don't need to.
> NHS Scotland.



Well done?


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## Andy in Germany (1 Oct 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> I work in a hospital: mask wearing is mandatory in clinical settings, not in other places.
> If I'm in a ward or clinic, I have to wear a mask, but if I'm a public area, or lone working, I don't need to.
> NHS Scotland.



Our doc won't let you in the surgery without you wearing an FFP2 mask.

Oddly at work the social workers need to wear masks when dealing with a client, but the rest of us don't


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Oct 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Is that the way it works John. I had a booster called Spikevax on Wednesday and have felt like crap ever since. As that was my fourth are you saying they actually give you the virus in a way to build up your immunity to it?



I'm simply saying since I've had the original two AZ doses, plus I've caught something nasty with Coronavirus symptoms twice/thrice as well, that's enough immunity for me. In fact over the last week I've caught something which might just be any random virus doing the rounds, or it might have been another lot of Corona. I'm feeling a lot better than I was three days ago, so whatever it was is academic. I just don't see any point in having repeated vaccines when there is clearly a lot of infection-induced immunity there.


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## newts (1 Oct 2022)

^
^
That's nice as long, as you're OK, f#"k the rest of us who have long covid & are coming to terms with the long term life changes. Vaccines are for society to move forward, not selfish individuals.


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## Alex321 (2 Oct 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm simply saying since I've had the original two AZ doses, plus I've caught something nasty with Coronavirus symptoms twice/thrice as well, that's enough immunity for me. In fact over the last week I've caught something which might just be any random virus doing the rounds, or it might have been another lot of Corona. I'm feeling a lot better than I was three days ago, so whatever it was is academic. I just don't see any point in having repeated vaccines when there is clearly a lot of infection-induced immunity there.



For the same reason vulnerable people have repeated flu vaccines.

And at the moment it is pretty much the same groups who are getting Covid boosters and getting flu vaccines.


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## Dogtrousers (2 Oct 2022)

vickster said:


> Give it time



You were right. Sore arm and felt very off colour yesterday.


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## C R (2 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> You were right. Sore arm and felt very off colour yesterday.



I seem to have got lucky. Slight sore arm in Friday evening and that was it.


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## presta (2 Oct 2022)

Time for a trip to the vaccine bus. Back in an hour or two.


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## presta (2 Oct 2022)

presta said:


> Time for a trip to the vaccine bus. Back in an hour or two.



All change again, Moderna Spikevax this time. Side effects were mild for my first two, and none at all for the last, so hopefully this will be the same.


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## DRM (2 Oct 2022)

presta said:


> All change again, Moderna Spikevax this time. Side effects were mild for my first two, and none at all for the last, so hopefully this will be the same.



Brace yourself, that’s what I had, sore arm, tired and lethargic, and complete brain f*rt, really just making stupid mistakes, also definitely felt weird directly afterwards, the fella that did it said don’t drive for 15 minutes.


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## Chislenko (2 Oct 2022)

DRM said:


> Brace yourself, that’s what I had, sore arm, tired and lethargic, and complete brain f*rt, really just making stupid mistakes, also definitely felt weird directly afterwards, the fella that did it said don’t drive for 15 minutes.



Yes, it is the one I had, knocked me out for two days, but we are all different, may not affect some people.


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## DRM (2 Oct 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Yes, it is the one I had, knocked me out for two days, but we are all different, may not affect some people.



That’s true, but even those on here who have had it seem to have experienced some after effects, only a small sample I know, but Mrs DRM also felt the same too


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## Alex321 (2 Oct 2022)

DRM said:


> Brace yourself, that’s what I had, sore arm, tired and lethargic, and complete brain f*rt, really just making stupid mistakes, also definitely felt weird directly afterwards, the fella that did it said don’t drive for 15 minutes.



They say that after all of them - just in case you experience immediate side-effects.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Oct 2022)

DRM said:


> Brace yourself, that’s what I had, sore arm, tired and lethargic, and complete brain f*rt, really just making stupid mistakes, also definitely felt weird directly afterwards, the fella that did it said don’t drive for 15 minutes.



That's what I had too (Moderna Spikevax). Cycled there (45 mins); was 'told' not to cycle for 15 minutes (though the doc doing the vax said that cycling would pump the blood and you'd more likely faint if sitting down). I gave it at least 5, and did not expect to 'feel weird', and didn't. Then another 70 minutes (an hour in company) to the pub; three pints and 90 mins back home (by midnight). Sorted. Got a walk-in flu jab in the town centre earlier this week (took about 10 minutes from seeing the sign).
Should I worry that with no side effects the jabs are not 'working'? 111km yesterday on sunny Isle of Purbeck.


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## PaulSB (3 Oct 2022)

I'm don't have any science to back this up but my observation is people who have avoided infection are now succumbing to Covid. The latest being two friends who both have compromised immune systems so one can imagine how careful they have been since day one.

For me this points to one thing. Society has relaxed, Covid is simply out there meaning sooner or later everyone catches it. All the measures put in place largely worked and now they're removed the beast will continue to spread.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Oct 2022)

PaulSB said:


> For me this points to one thing. Society has relaxed, Covid is simply out there meaning sooner or later everyone catches it. All the measures put in place largely worked and now they're removed the beast will continue to spread.


Yes, but.
People are catching it. Both people who don't think they've previously been infected (rightly or wrongly) and people for whom this is a repeat infect.
What measures or changes do you think we (society) should take this month, or next?
This virus, in various variants of increasingly transmissible form, has been 'out there' for 31 months. The more people (as in proportion and actual) that at any time infected, the more chance there is that those close to them, as knowns or strangers, will catch it. Vaccines have reduced the chance of, once infected, developing serious illness. The chance of this was very low under 50 and increasingly low younger than that, in those without co-morbidities or other vulnerabilities.
The danger to society (as opposed to each individual) is a health service overwhelmed by this one illness and the knock-on effects of the disproportionate burden caused: hence the 'excess deaths' not due to C-19, which, together with Long Covid, will be with us for years, as the NHS will never catch up, and there is no society/political appetite for limitless NHS funding.
The various measures adopted reduced transmission, but the increased transmissibility of eg Omicron means that even with the extraordinary restrictions this and other nations imposed on personal freedoms etc in (eg) 2020, the rate of transmission is higher now (with minimal NPIs) than in (say) May 2020 (citation required). 
So this will remain an endemic illness and noone is likely to avoid it. And society can 'go forward' in a rejuvenated, relatively relaxed way, where individuals can assess, with a good basis of knowledge, their own risk, and take mitigating measures accordingly.
Better ventilation in schools would be good as children are significant vector.


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## KnittyNorah (3 Oct 2022)

Well, I went for my final blood draw of the clinical trial prior to getting my autumn booster. Whatever I had in spring - and it was either the original Moderna Spikevax or the new Omicron-tweaked one - I had no side-effects that I remember, maybe a sore, slightly stiff upper arm and a bit of tiredness. Anyway, at the trials centre (which is an annexe to a large GP surgery) I'd been through the health check and blood draw and said right, now to sort out my autumn booster. The research nurse asked 'would you like it now? We've just got a message from the pharmacist that she's got a few doses left over from this morning's session, and they need to be used within the next hour?' 
So I got it there and then. 
Slightly sore, stiff arm now. This was, of course, the tweaked Spikevax. 
Apparently I still have high levels of T-cell immunity from my original A-Z vaccines, but no recent 'natural' antibodies from an infection - those present are all artificially (ie vaccine) mediated, so it doesn't look like I've even had an asymptomatic/subclinical infection. 
YET.


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## SpokeyDokey (3 Oct 2022)

Neither of us here have had Covid.

Not been taking any significant precautions for some time now.

Both have had 3 jabs to date and booster due next week.

Me 65, she 59.

We put it down to country living and hence avoidance of mass transit systems.

^^^^ possibly cobblers but the best reason for non infection that we are currently able to hypothesise.


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## PK99 (3 Oct 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I'm don't have any science to back this up but my observation is people who have avoided infection are now succumbing to Covid. The latest being two friends who both have *compromised immune systems* so one can imagine how careful they have been since day one.
> 
> For me this points to one thing. Society has relaxed, Covid is simply out there meaning sooner or later everyone catches it. All the measures put in place largely worked and now they're removed* the beast will continue to spread.*



But the evolved beast is very different from the original beast plus the vaccine mitigates against serious disease.

PLUS :Not everyone with a compromised immune system has been as careful as your friends appear to have been.

I'm on daily Chemo meds, was supplied with Vitamin D without asking, was sent special "to be couriered" PCR kits, and have had 6 jabs plus covid in the very first wave.

We have been very relaxed all through - locking away in complete isolation (as a very good friend did) we viewed as a living hell. we followed the rules to the letter but did not hide away.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Oct 2022)

PK99 said:


> was supplied with Vitamin D without asking


Likely the Vit D tabs are 400IU: pretty anodyne. Well worth a bottle of 400 (@?£15) of 4000IU, especially now the sun is lower at midday.


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## mistyoptic (3 Oct 2022)

Cousin and her hubby are over from New Zealand, hoping to come to us next week. 

Just had her on the phone from Edinburgh to say that hubby has tested positive this evening. They’ve been bumped off their organised tour and will have to hotel quarantine until he’s over it (assuming she doesn’t succumb).

We might get to see them, or they may end up going straight home 🙁

Mrs Optic and I also went down with it after a trip to Edinburgh, last year. Must be something in the water…


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## DCBassman (3 Oct 2022)

In late 2019, not long before all this malarkey got going, my wife was at a computer course here in Tavistock. The tutor's daughter ( if I remember correctly) had just returned from...China. Almost everyone on the course got a 'bug', me also, and it was pretty much identical to what became described as SARS-Cov-2. Other Tavi residents were also ill with some new bug, although I cannot generally see the connection, unlike the tutor's daughter.
These things travel faster that we know.


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## PaulSB (4 Oct 2022)

PK99 said:


> But the evolved beast is very different from the original beast plus the vaccine mitigates against serious disease.
> 
> PLUS :Not everyone with a compromised immune system has been as careful as your friends appear to have been.
> 
> ...



The couple I'm thinking of one has rheumatoid arthritis, the other a rare incurable cancer and is part of a drugs trial which has proved successful. This involves three monthly hospital visits for blood tests prior to each batch of the drug being issued. Currently very unwell and positive he can't travel to or visit the clinic for this week's bloods. This is extremely difficult.

As we live in a small rural village isolation and lockdown for ourselves wasn't difficult. Other than staying a sensible distance from others outside and not going to town no real changes in life were needed. The friends above live five doors away - we could easily talk in the garden from a distance. A very, very fortunate situation.


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## PaulSB (4 Oct 2022)

DCBassman said:


> In late 2019, not long before all this malarkey got going, my wife was at a computer course here in Tavistock. The tutor's daughter ( if I remember correctly) had just returned from...China. Almost everyone on the course got a 'bug', me also, and it was pretty much identical to what became described as SARS-Cov-2. Other Tavi residents were also ill with some new bug, although I cannot generally see the connection, unlike the tutor's daughter.
> These things travel faster that we know.



My wife had a similar situation. Late December 2019 she became extremely ill with all the symptoms and didn't recover fully till May 2022. In 42 years I had never seen her so unwell. This is a woman with 39 years in the NHS, whose response to anyone she feels has misleading opinions is "show me the research." She remains 100% convinced she had Covid before anyone knew what it was. Her GP agrees.

When we discussed why I wasn't infected Mrs P said "You realise you isolated yourself?" It was only at this point I understood I had done so. We were due to travel to Vietnam in late January 2020 and I wanted to avoid illness. I slept in the spare room for three weeks, Mrs P had a horrendous cough, I cooked all our meals, sat the opposite side of the room etc. Just instinctive really to protect my holiday.


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## PaulSB (4 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Yes, but.
> People are catching it. Both people who don't think they've previously been infected (rightly or wrongly) and people for whom this is a repeat infect.
> *What measures or changes do you think we (society) should take this month, or next?*
> This virus, in various variants of increasingly transmissible form, has been 'out there' for 31 months. The more people (as in proportion and actual) that at any time infected, the more chance there is that those close to them, as knowns or strangers, will catch it. Vaccines have reduced the chance of, once infected, developing serious illness. The chance of this was very low under 50 and increasingly low younger than that, in those without co-morbidities or other vulnerabilities.
> ...



None. I agree with all you say. My observation was nothing other than society has relaxed, I believe the measures we took largely worked and now we live with Covid in society. The large majority of people I know who are currently positive are first-timers. I do know others who've had more than one infection. My son and his partner have tested positive four times. The first infection they were unwell, flu like, but the following three very mild. Both regularly use planes and trains for work. 

We choose to take a few extra precautions. For example my son enjoys Supported Living in the Community, shares a house with three others one of whom is positive and so we didn't allow our son to visit on Saturday as he would normally. He was pretty cross! 🤣

In the same fashion we fly to the States next Tuesday. From yesterday we are in what I describe as semi-isolation. No crowded indoor events, outdoor cafe stop, no supermarket shop and a week's meals in the fridge/freezer etc. FFP masks for travel, distance ourselves in the airport, wipe down surfaces etc.


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## wiggydiggy (4 Oct 2022)

Not technically me (by a long stretch!) but I read the Danish Monarch Queen Margrethe II has tested positive for COVID19 after attending Queen Elizabeth II's Funeral, bit crap for anyone that attends a funeral and then finds themselves ill.


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## Dogtrousers (4 Oct 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Just instinctive really to protect my holiday.



(David Attenborough) We probably shouldn't approach any closer. Normally a docile animal, the @PaulSB will instinctively go to any lengths if it perceives a threat to its holiday.


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## Slick (4 Oct 2022)

To be fair, an old boy at work has been planning a cruise for him and his Mrs for the past 2 years now. They must be the only holidays that still require a PCR test and he tested positive.

What a nightmare, especially if you have zero symptoms.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2022)

New wave? No new variant (all the other waves (after initial) had a new variant of greater transmissibility as a key driver).
1?) Schools back, but infections started increasing too early for schools to be the primary driver.
2?) People returning from overseas holidays. A recent ONS analysis found travelling abroad was a strong risk factor for testing positive.
3) Probably the main driver behind this current wave is waning immunity.
For most highly transmissible endemic infections the incidence of infection is largely driven by the rate at which immunity is lost in the population. Protection against infection or reinfection following vaccination wanes. Fortunately protection against severe disease is more durable. Hopefully the fourth dose will provide somewhat longer-lasting partial protection against infection for the over 50s.
(49% of over 75s and 35% of 65-74s @6 Oct; goes to under 65s on 16 Oct, walk-in or by appt't)
Most new infections are now reinfections. Almost 90% of England’s population had already had at least one infection by August 2022.
Together with flu, the NHS will have another hard winter season.
ETA: Patients in English hospital beds have doubled in 19 days (low of 4567 to 9000+). IndieSAGE session later today.


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## PK99 (7 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> New wave? No new variant (all the other waves (after initial) had a new variant of greater transmissibility as a key driver).
> 1?) Schools back, but infections started increasing too early for schools to be the primary driver.
> 2?) People returning from overseas holidays. A recent ONS analysis found travelling abroad was a strong risk factor for testing positive.
> 3) Probably the main driver behind this current wave is waning immunity.
> ...



I'm still unclear on the data from various sources.

Are the cases currently reported from hospitals:

*A: People arriving at the hospital because of covid*

or

*B: People arriving at the hospital for other things and testing positive*

or, even

*C: People arriving at the hospital free of infection and having a hospital-acquired infection*


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2022)

PK99 said:


> I'm still unclear on the data from various sources.
> Are the cases currently reported from hospitals:
> *A: People arriving at the hospital because of covid*
> or
> ...


All of the above, on the reporting day. About 30%, 30%, 40%, approximately.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXwWF4KoG4


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## Mike_P (7 Oct 2022)

Aldi and Lidl sell vit D tabs a lot cheaper than chemists / Holland & Barratt. Last time I looked Aldi had the 400 ones and Lidl the 1000 ones.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2022)

I've been consuming these daily. The K2 addresses the remote risk of too much Vit D.
But for proper effect you need the 4000IU. The 'normal' 400IU doesn't scratch the surface.
https://www.weightworld.uk/vitamin-d3-4000iu.html


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## byegad (7 Oct 2022)

DCBassman said:


> In late 2019, not long before all this malarkey got going, my wife was at a computer course here in Tavistock. The tutor's daughter ( if I remember correctly) had just returned from...China. Almost everyone on the course got a 'bug', me also, and it was pretty much identical to what became described as SARS-Cov-2. Other Tavi residents were also ill with some new bug, although I cannot generally see the connection, unlike the tutor's daughter.
> These things travel faster that we know.



About that same time both my adult sons went down with a mystery cold/chest type infection. Both took quite a bit of time off work although neither of their doctors* had any idea of what it was and neither of them normally miss work.
Fortunately, given our vulnerability, they routinely don't visit us if they are unwell, so we were fine.

*They work many hundred of miles apart and hadn't been together prior to falling ill.


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## mjr (8 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I've been consuming these daily. The K2 addresses the remote risk of too much Vit D.
> But for proper effect you need the 4000IU. The 'normal' 400IU doesn't scratch the surface.
> https://www.weightworld.uk/vitamin-d3-4000iu.html


And you think "proper effect" is...? Dayglo urine? Oh sorry, that's usually excess vitamin B2.


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## PaulSB (8 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I've been consuming these daily. The K2 addresses the remote risk of too much Vit D.
> *But for proper effect you need the 4000IU. The 'normal' 400IU doesn't scratch the surface*.
> https://www.weightworld.uk/vitamin-d3-4000iu.html



Do you have published data for this? The NHS suggest 400IU is the correct dosage for children over 4 and adults. Perhaps 15 years ago an infant feeding specialist I know working in the Asian community, where pregnant women are especially vulnerable to deficiency, recommended the supplement. I've used vitamin D daily ever since.

Without researching every possible source I have seen 400IU on sale at £3.95/96 and 4000IU at £14.95/96. Its not unusual to see 3000IU for sale at three times the price of 400IU. You are suggesting people should spend possibly four times what appears necessary.

NHS.uk


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## Mo1959 (8 Oct 2022)

mjr said:


> And you think "proper effect" is...? Dayglo urine? Oh sorry, that's usually excess vitamin B2.



I know! I’m taking that as I think it helps my headaches.


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## cougie uk (8 Oct 2022)

Just had my latest covid jab - apart from a sore arm I feel just fine. 
Still not had covid and don't want it thank you.


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## KnittyNorah (8 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Just had my latest covid jab - apart from a sore arm I feel just fine.
> Still not had covid and don't want it thank you.



I'm the same. Slightly sore arm for a couple of days (well, I notice it at night mainly as I sleep on my side) and still not had C-19 ... _yet._


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## Tim Bennet. (8 Oct 2022)

I've had my 4th booster jab and haven't had a sore arm or reaction to any of them. 

I'd like to think it's 'cos I'm dead hard, but probably just lucky.


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## cougie uk (8 Oct 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> I'm the same. Slightly sore arm for a couple of days (well, I notice it at night mainly as I sleep on my side) and still not had C-19 ... _yet._



Arm seems ok now. A 10k run and some gardening seems to have sorted it.


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## KnittyNorah (9 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Arm seems ok now. A 10k run and some gardening seems to have sorted it.



Mine was probably still slightly bruised from the flu jab I had a few days earlier so the soreness lasted maybe 72 hours (but only really 'feelable' at night when lying on my side). No lethargy or other side effects.


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## fossyant (10 Oct 2022)

MrsF still sore from the flu jab - think the Nurse just lobbed it in.

My colleague is still off sick, looking like another month at least speaking to his line manager - concerning as he's only 40, does cycle a lot, but has asthma.

Another colleague just gone off with it and is properly poorly, and she'd just had her booster. I think genetics and health conditions play a big part with this virus.

No signs of being called up here - my folks are "done" though !


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## KnittyNorah (10 Oct 2022)

fossyant said:


> MrsF still sore from the flu jab - think the Nurse just lobbed it in.
> 
> My colleague is still off sick, looking like another month at least speaking to his line manager - concerning as he's only 40, does cycle a lot, but has asthma.
> 
> ...



If she tensed up - even subconsciously - before or while it was going in, it's more likely to be sore. So it's best not to watch it being done on yourself, as it's very difficult to avoid a slight unwitting tension as the needle approaches the skin. 

I'm certain you're right about genetics; we already know about increased risks with some health conditions, and with increasing age. Those with those health conditions, or who are very old, but who happen to have the 'right' genetics for C-19, are the 'exceptions' which prove the rule and allow the very elderly asthmatic to recover well from C-19, or even not to catch it in the first place.
I'm sure there is ongoing research into this, but like most genetic linkages, it will be probably be _extremely_ complex.


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## gavgav (10 Oct 2022)

Had my 4th jab (booster) yesterday and this is the first one I’ve had a mild reaction to. Muzzy headache and achey legs, plus the obligatory sore arm, but it’s a small amount to deal with in comparison to what the alternative could be without the jab and if I get Covid. Have avoided it so far, somehow, as virtually everyone I know, socially and at work, has had it.


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## shep (10 Oct 2022)

gavgav said:


> Had my 4th jab (booster) yesterday and this is the first one I’ve had a mild reaction to. Muzzy headache and achey legs, plus the obligatory sore arm, but it’s a small amount to deal with in comparison to what the alternative could be without the jab and if I get Covid. Have avoided it so far, somehow, as virtually everyone I know, socially and at work, has had it.



I've had my 4th as I've an immune suppression condition but suffered no reaction to it, as all the others, don't think I've had Covid but never really had a need to test?


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## Ajax Bay (12 Oct 2022)

Vaccines delivered up the nose offer convenience and patient preference; and are already used extensively for protection against flu, especially in children. Recent Phase 1 trial report is out for the AZ vaccine intranasally: sub-optimal responses.
[‘Tolerability and immunogenicity of an intranasally-administered adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine: an open-label partially-randomised ascending dose Phase I trial’ published in _eBioMedicine_ on 11 Oct 2022.]


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## Bazzer (12 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Vaccines delivered up the nose offer convenience and patient preference; and are already used extensively for protection against flu, especially in children. Recent Phase 1 trial report is out for the AZ vaccine intranasally: sub-optimal responses.
> [‘Tolerability and immunogenicity of an intranasally-administered adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine: an open-label partially-randomised ascending dose Phase I trial’ published in _eBioMedicine_ on 11 Oct 2022.]


I wish they had given me my flu vaccine nasally yesterday. Between that and a pneumonia jab I was unexpectedly offered at the same time and accepted, my right shoulder is really tender and for the last 24 hours I have felt like I have been at the wrong end of a beating.
(Although I appreciate were I to be unvaccinated and catch one of the diseases I am likely to feel much worse).


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## Ajax Bay (13 Oct 2022)

Didn't they offer you one in each arm?


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## Ajax Bay (13 Oct 2022)

This graph shows the incidence in UK 15 Aug to 10 Oct (apologies for trimming off the x-axis):





Note the suggestion that England and Wales have peaked.


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## Bazzer (13 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Didn't they offer you one in each arm?


The nurse did. But having had no side effects or soreness at all both with last year's flu jab, and the Covid booster jabs, I thought I'd be fine. 🙄 Whether it was the pneumonia jab, or my arm just making a point about being jabbed twice, who knows?


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## cougie uk (13 Oct 2022)

I caught up with this today. 
Presenter wanted a test to see if he had actually had Covid as he thought he'd avoided it totally. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001cx3j?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Interestingly the doctor didn't know anyone who had avoided Covid after this summer.


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## Julia9054 (14 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I caught up with this today.
> Presenter wanted a test to see if he had actually had Covid as he thought he'd avoided it totally.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001cx3j?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
> ...



My younger son still hasn’t had it (as far as he knows)
He works in a school so was doing the twice a week testing when that was still a thing. 
My eldest caught it for the first time 3 weeks ago.


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## Mike_P (14 Oct 2022)

Not sure I had it either; did have a bout of gastro with associated taste lost with a negative test result although as I always start sneezing doing the nose bit of the test maybe I did not do that right.


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## C R (14 Oct 2022)

Our two youngest have had it, but oldest daughter and both Mrs C R and myself seem to have got away with it so far. Tests have always been negative when we had suspicious symptoms, so if we've had it it's been asymptomatic.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Oct 2022)

I finally succumbed. Mrs Tenkaykev had caught it in March while we were in Edinburgh. I managed to avoid catching it. She started feeling rough again last Saturday, but following three negative tests put it down to a heavy cold. I started with a sore throat and a bit of a headache on Monday evening, tested Tuesday morning and was positive. My wife did a further test and hers too showed positive. I entered my test results online and was contacted within a few hours by a Doctor from the local hospital who asked a few questions and arranged for a course of the new antiviral Paxlovid. This arrived by taxi within a couple of hours and I was able to start treatment. My first night was rough, retired to bed with pyjamas, heavy woolly hiking socks, dressing gown and hot water bottle and still felt cold. Been slowly on the mend since, two days of medication to go.


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## Mo1959 (14 Oct 2022)

Unless I have been asymptomatic I don't think I've had it either. Mind you, I am quite antisocial so haven't done a huge amount of mixing other than the usual shopping, hairdresser, dentist and a few meals out.


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2022)

My antibodies (done as part of the clinical trial that I'm on) indicate that I've _probably_ not had C-19, although there can never be any absolute certainty. 
I have definitely been exposed - sharing space and air with confirmed cases - for lengthy periods, twice. And who knows how many other times briefly to random people who without my knowledge were infectious.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Oct 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> My antibodies (done as part of the clinical trial that I'm on) indicate that I've _probably_ not had C-19, although there can never be any absolute certainty.
> I have definitely been exposed - sharing space and air with confirmed cases - for lengthy periods, twice. And who knows how many other times briefly to random people who without my knowledge were infectious.



It’s weird, Mrs Tenkaykev and I were sharing the same bed when she first succumbed while visiting relatives in Edinburgh. I have had 5 jabs and was pretty much convinced that I must be naturally immune. I’m definitely on the mend, fingers crossed that I don’t experience any post viral fatigue.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2022)

Wife booked in for just Covid at local pharmacy in a weeks time. Pharmacy only 200m away. I’m a day later at my GP for both Covid and flu, I’ve got a longer walk.


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## shep (14 Oct 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> My antibodies (done as part of the clinical trial that I'm on) indicate that I've _probably_ not had C-19, although there can never be any absolute certainty.
> I have definitely been exposed - sharing space and air with confirmed cases - for lengthy periods, twice. And who knows how many other times briefly to random people who without my knowledge were infectious.



Not really surprising given the mask you wear.


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Not really surprising given the mask you wear.


And what mask is it, that you know I am currently wearing?


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## shep (14 Oct 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> And what mask is it, that you know I am currently wearing?



No idea on the exact model but from some of your previous posts they appear to be very efficient at preventing infections, which is the point of you wearing one is it not?


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Interestingly the doctor didn't know anyone who had avoided Covid after this summer.



Likely as doctors generally only see people when they are sick. not when they are well. Plus people don’t ring their GP to say “I haven’t had Covid, what should I do?”


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## KnittyNorah (14 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> No idea on the exact model but from some of your previous posts they appear to be very efficient at preventing infections, which is the point of you wearing one is it not?


Yes, but mask wearing wasn't a 'thing' when my friend got C-19 in Feb/Mar 2020 (confirmed by antibody testing in May of that year, as part of a clinical study).

The second time I was definitely exposed was also maskless - I went on a history society outing with another pal in spring this year - she was driving and I was in the front passenger seat, one and a half hours there and the same back. She had no reason to think she might be infected .and neither did I (both retired and hadn't been anywhere for several days previously) so we were maskless on the journeys, and on walking round the outdoor venue with the society. After she'd got back home at the end of the day and had her tea, she said she didn't feel 'quite right' so did a C-19 test and was strongly +ve. No-one else in the group seemed to have caught it from her, either, but their contact would only have been in the open air, or for a brief time at a cafe where we all sat on a semi-open verandah (heaps of ventilation).

I actually question whether I have some sort of natural/genetic immunity/resistance but there is no way of (safely) knowing for sure yet, although I've approved the clinical trial I'm on to use my blood samples for further investigation on these lines. Given my age, I plan to start masking more often soon - winter drawing in and all that ... this past summer, I've only been masking on public transport and when I go to the clinical trials centre. I dislike crowds and about the busiest places I go to are U3A meetings, but I'll be masking in the supermarket and elsewhere soon. I will certainly be masking during February - every February I get really bad hayfever for a couple of weeks (a specific tree pollen allergy) but I didn't get it last year or this year - I was masked. Bliss!


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## gbb (14 Oct 2022)

As far as I know, still never had it.
May have of course but .....


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## DCLane (14 Oct 2022)

Autumn booster booking opened this morning, and I'm booked in tomorrow morning when they start. Hopefully there won't be too many side effects as I've a long drive plus important family meeting afterwards.


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## Ripple (14 Oct 2022)

Finally caught covid. Felt really awful on Wednesday but thought it's my usual sinusitis (blocked nose, face ache etc). Night was terrible - high temperature, headaches, muscle pain. Didn't get much sleep. So Thursday morning done the test and voila - positive. Today few hours ago realized that sense of taste has gone.
That's me being jabbed 3 times in total. 
There's a chance that I've caught it previously (working all the time and mixing with various people) but IF I had it it was asymptomatic.


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## cougie uk (14 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Likely as doctors generally only see people when they are sick. not when they are well. Plus people don’t ring their GP to say “I haven’t had Covid, what should I do?”



Doctors are people too. They have family and friends and colleagues. That's what she was talking about.


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## Ajax Bay (14 Oct 2022)

DCLane said:


> Autumn booster booking opened this morning, . . .


I think all over 50s can get a 'walk-in' now, or an appointment for those who need structure to their lives.


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## Alex321 (15 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I think all over 50s can get a 'walk-in' now, or an appointment for those who need structure to their lives.



They sent me (age 63) an appointment for the 27th of this month. My wife (72) had hers on the 1st.

Also got flu jab at the GP practice tomorrow morning.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Doctors are people too. They have family and friends and colleagues. That's what she was talking about.



But given the percentages who’ve had c-19, it would be very unusual to only have acquaintances who have had C-19. It’s not representative of the wider population.


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## DCLane (15 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I think all over 50s can get a 'walk-in' now, or an appointment for those who need structure to their lives.



I checked for SWMBO and they were doing pre-booked only at this site.


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## Alex321 (15 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But given the percentages who’ve had c-19, it would be very unusual to only have acquaintances who have had C-19. It’s not representative of the wider population.



I think it is representative actually. I don't know anybody who is reasonably sure they haven't had it. And very few who are not sure they have.


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## cougie uk (15 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But given the percentages who’ve had c-19, it would be very unusual to only have acquaintances who have had C-19. It’s not representative of the wider population.



That's the point. All of her friends and acquaintances have had it. Not my experience at all but I guess my life and circles are quite different.


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## cougie uk (15 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I think it is representative actually. I don't know anybody who is reasonably sure they haven't had it. And very few who are not sure they have.



My wife and I haven't. Both mothers too.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I think it is representative actually. I don't know anybody who is reasonably sure they haven't had it. And very few who are not sure they have.



My wife and I haven’t had it, plus many others I know haven’t either.


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## oldwheels (15 Oct 2022)

I have no idea how I managed to catch it as I always masked anywhere indoors with an FFP3 mask. Felt a bit rough on 3rd October after visiting a pal two days beforehand and tested positive. Strangely he also reported problems at the same time but the time scale was wrong for cross infection.
Today I still test positive but the sore throat has eased off.
Running out of test kits so no idea what I will do if it does not clear up before that.
Causing me problems with ferry bookings ie do I book or not for 2 weeks time? Final decision on Monday.


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## Tenkaykev (15 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> I have no idea how I managed to catch it as I always masked anywhere indoors with an FFP3 mask. Felt a bit rough on 3rd October after visiting a pal two days beforehand and tested positive. Strangely he also reported problems at the same time but the time scale was wrong for cross infection.
> Today I still test positive but the sore throat has eased off.
> Running out of test kits so no idea what I will do if it does not clear up before that.
> Causing me problems with ferry bookings ie do I book or not for 2 weeks time? Final decision on Monday.



I order my kits via the Gov UK web site. I ordered a box last Saturday and the Postie delivered them on Sunday! ( we don’t have a Sunday delivery service ) I keep a full box as a buffer, and order when I’ve used the last of the current box.


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## Andy in Germany (15 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Not really surprising given the mask you wear.



Medical masks are not there to protect the wearer but those around them. FFP2 masks offer some protection to the wearer which is why I wear one in indoor public spaces. 

Currently masks are mandatory on public transport in our state, but not elsewhere. This may change soon as numbers are increasing.


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## SpokeyDokey (15 Oct 2022)

We had our jabs yesterday me 66 and she 59.

Both feeling fine today.

Both never had Covid thus far.

***

As a slight aside... 

I had a renogram at the Nuclear Medicine Dept of local-ish NHS hospital on Thursday this week; no one was wearing a mask - the three staff dealing with me, one other who wasn't dealing with me and the receptionist.

***

I have to confess that Covid is just some slight background noise in our lives here at the moment - very rarely gets a mention within our family/friendship group.


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## Bazzer (15 Oct 2022)

As my wife and I overheard this morning, at least one resident in my Mum's care home has the virus. We happened to arrive when staff were trying persuade one of the residents to stay in her room because of having COVID. - It took three of them to get her into her room.
No restrictions on visiting though yet.


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## oldwheels (15 Oct 2022)

Tenkaykev said:


> I order my kits via the Gov UK web site. I ordered a box last Saturday and the Postie delivered them on Sunday! ( we don’t have a Sunday delivery service ) I keep a full box as a buffer, and order when I’ve used the last of the current box.



I think it depends on whether you are regarded as vulnerable or not whether you can still get test kits.
So far as I can make out I am not eligible for free testing and the pharmacy no longer supplies them.
I will have to talk to the surgery on Monday and can try to get some clarification as I am due a blood test but no idea whether this will still go ahead if I am still positive. It would appear that I am supposed to isolate for 5 days after a positive test even if subsequently negative.
The whole thing is getting very confusing regarding testing.


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## Slick (15 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> I have no idea how I managed to catch it as I always masked anywhere indoors with an FFP3 mask. Felt a bit rough on 3rd October after visiting a pal two days beforehand and tested positive. Strangely he also reported problems at the same time but the time scale was wrong for cross infection.
> Today I still test positive but the sore throat has eased off.
> Running out of test kits so no idea what I will do if it does not clear up before that.
> Causing me problems with ferry bookings ie do I book or not for 2 weeks time? Final decision on Monday.


Don't wait, it could be weeks before you produce a negative test, so make your booking now.


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## Slick (15 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> I think it depends on whether you are regarded as vulnerable or not whether you can still get test kits.
> So far as I can make out I am not eligible for free testing and the pharmacy no longer supplies them.
> I will have to talk to the surgery on Monday and can try to get some clarification as I am due a blood test but no idea whether this will still go ahead if I am still positive. It would appear that I am supposed to isolate for 5 days after a positive test even if subsequently negative.
> The whole thing is getting very confusing regarding testing.



There is no requirement for testing or self isolation. If you feel bad, stay at home, if you feel fine, go about your business as normal.


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## oldwheels (15 Oct 2022)

Slick said:


> There is no requirement for testing or self isolation. If you feel bad, stay at home, if you feel fine, go about your business as normal.



That does indeed seem to be the way things are going.
My problem however is that I have 2 appointments in Oban which would require me to stay overnight for at least 3 nights assuming I can get ferry bookings.
My son will be at home but due to return to Taiwan which could cause serious problems if he gets infected as Taiwan is pretty strict regarding possible covid introduction.
Cannot win.
Just to add to the complications Calmac will not accept bookings as the winter timetable starting on 24th of this month is still not published. You could not make it up.


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## Slick (15 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> That does indeed seem to be the way things are going.
> My problem however is that I have 2 appointments in Oban which would require me to stay overnight for at least 3 nights assuming I can get ferry bookings.
> My son will be at home but due to return to Taiwan which could cause serious problems if he gets infected as Taiwan is pretty strict regarding possible covid introduction.
> Cannot win.
> Just to add to the complications Calmac will not accept bookings as the winter timetable starting on 24th of this month is still not published. You could not make it up.



Ah, your son will definitely need to be careful then dealing with calmac has always been a pain in the erse.


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## slowmotion (15 Oct 2022)

My BIL phoned from Canada today to tell us that he had caught his third infection, probably on a plane back from Italy. Here in London, I wear a mask in hospitals, on planes if they ask me, but that's about it. If some deadly variant appears, that will all change. I'll follow any reputable medical advice. I have nothing but contempt for the conspiracy nutjobs.


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## oldwheels (16 Oct 2022)

Slick said:


> Ah, your son will definitely need to be careful then dealing with calmac has always been a pain in the erse.



I was dealing with David MacBrayne Ltd and MacBrayne Haulage in 1972 and it was far better in those days than now. We had lots of logistical problems but we got along mostly ok. Nowadays everything is geared to tourists and nothing else matters. The haulage side was sold off and the rump has become Calmac.


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## ChrisKz (16 Oct 2022)

Not caught it at all . Not had any injections , 63 and still breathing


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## fossyant (16 Oct 2022)

MrsF has finally caught it. Feeling a bit rough, temperature and coughing. She's still pottering about the house. I've been at the caravan, only just home, so I'll down the vitamins as I've got a riding weekend next week and can't be catching it.


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## Mo1959 (16 Oct 2022)

ChrisKz said:


> Not caught it at all . Not had any injections , 63 and still breathing



Same here.


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## cougie uk (16 Oct 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Same here.



Why no vaccinations?


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## fossyant (16 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Why no vaccinations?



Choice.  I know too many people that have been badly affected by the virus (long covid) and I no doubt it didn't help MIL with her heart/lung problems when she caught it a couple of months before dying of respiratory failure.

But it's the individual's choice. Not 'officially' had it myself either and awaiting jab 4.


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## MrGrumpy (18 Oct 2022)

Meant to be flying out if Ariceffe airport tonight and my Mum who is with us , has tested positive for Covid !! Awaiting a doctor to check her out and see if we can fly or not ? She’s a a bit out of sorts, temp and very tired . Great end to the holiday !


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## beatlejuice (18 Oct 2022)

Finally it caught up with me. Thanks to sharing a van with someone last week I tested positive on Friday. The agency I work sent me to a firm who wanted me in on Monday despite +ve test result. Put them off until tomorrow. (Oh I am still testing +ve!) I cycle 6 miles on an ebike at 4:00am to get there. On stupidity level of 1 to 10 where would you put this proposed venture?

ps I am over 60 and overweight!

pps not sure if I’ve posted this in the right forum, might move it.


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## vickster (18 Oct 2022)

High on the going to work full stop especially if you’ll be working with anyone, potentially low on the commute (half hour?) depending on how you feel, what’s the forecast temperature at 4am


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## fossyant (18 Oct 2022)

It's rubbish that you are expected in - do they want more folk off work ?

MrsF is improving - more of a sore throat and a cough. Ice Lollies to the rescue - feels odd buying a shipping container load in Autumn.


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## Jameshow (18 Oct 2022)

Feeling rough from the booster so hopefully my immunity is good!!


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## beatlejuice (18 Oct 2022)

vickster said:


> High on the going to work full stop especially if you’ll be working with anyone, potentially low on the commute (half hour?) depending on how you feel, what’s the forecast temperature at 4am



I am doing collections in a 16T truck. I should be either outside or in my cab alone all day. The ’joy’ of agency work is no sick pay. I’ve lost at least £160 this week. I caught from another agency guy that probably shouldn’t have at work either.
Your guess of 30mins trip is about spot on. The temperature is going to be 14°C with a 10% chance of rain and 25mph easterly wind. The latter could be the main issue.


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## MrGrumpy (18 Oct 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Meant to be flying out if Ariceffe airport tonight and my Mum who is with us , has tested positive for Covid !! Awaiting a doctor to check her out and see if we can fly or not ? She’s a a bit out of sorts, temp and very tired . Great end to the holiday !



Well it’s a no fly . She’s not feeling brilliant but been like that for a few days . So staying on with MIL for an extra couple of days . Flight’s rearranged for Thu now. Fingers crossed she gets home. No restrictions on travel with covid but doctor because of her age was not keen at all .


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## beatlejuice (19 Oct 2022)

beatlejuice said:


> I am doing collections in a 16T truck. I should be either outside or in my cab alone all day. The ’joy’ of agency work is no sick pay. I’ve lost at least £160 this week. I caught from another agency guy that probably shouldn’t have at work either.
> Your guess of 30mins trip is about spot on. The temperature is going to be 14°C with a 10% chance of rain and 25mph easterly wind. The latter could be the main issue.



I was honoured with the use of the car, so drove in. Dam good job I did. I had a 13 hr day. But still have to cycle tomorrow. Still testing +ve but less so. They really shouldn’t have scrapped the COVID sick pay scheme. Otherwise people like me in the gig economy will continue to go to with with the infection. No good.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

beatlejuice said:


> I was honoured with the use of the car, so drove in. Dam good job I did. I had a 13 hr day. But still have to cycle tomorrow. Still testing +ve but less so. They really shouldn’t have scrapped the COVID sick pay scheme. Otherwise people like me in the gig economy will continue to go to with with the infection. No good.



Why get paid for being off with Covid but not a bad cold or tonsilitis for example?

It's now deemed acceptable to go to work with Covid if you feel well enough, as you would with any other ailment if you don't get sick pay.


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## Mike_P (20 Oct 2022)

Yet another dose of Pfizer today in the slightly weird surroundings of the Pig shed at the showground. As such no requirement to wait the 15 minutes.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Why get paid for being off with Covid but not a bad cold or tonsilitis for example?
> 
> It's now deemed acceptable to go to work with Covid if you feel well enough, as you would with any other ailment if you don't get sick pay.


Covid is a notifiable disease, a bad cold or tonsilitis isn't.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Covid is a notifiable disease, a bad cold or tonsilitis isn't.



What does 'notifiable ' mean in the big scheme of things?


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## cougie uk (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> What does 'notifiable ' mean in the big scheme of things?



It means that GPs have to report all cases to Public Health England. I guess it's similar in the other areas ?


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> What does 'notifiable ' mean in the big scheme of things?


There's a proper procedure in place for reporting the disease. This being a legal requirement, not just for a survey/study.
A cold doesn't fall within the same legal requirements.


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## C R (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> What does 'notifiable ' mean in the big scheme of things?



This:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

C R said:


> This:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report



Far too much information, sorry.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> It means that GPs have to report all cases to Public Health England. I guess it's similar in the other areas ?



So because it's 'notifiable ' you should get sick pay?


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> So because it's 'notifiable ' you should get sick pay?


Because it's notifiable, there's restrictions on what you, as a person, can legally do. The use of public transport is ruled for instance.
Getting on a bus or train with a cold, and sneezing continuously might just be seen as impolite/bad manners. As for tonsillitis, can you pass it on to another person?


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## Dogtrousers (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Covid is a notifiable disease, a bad cold or tonsilitis isn't.



Back in the 90s I had serious food poisoning (Salmonella Typhimurium) that had me laid up in bed (or in the bathroom) for a week or more. When I got my samples back the doctor informed me gravely that it was a _notifiable disease_. From memory I think I had to fill in some forms and tell my employer - and if I had worked in the food industry then things would have been even more complicated.

It seems that as well as dropping societal precautions against Covd (which may or may not be a bad thing, or a good thing) we have also dropped our data gathering. Which - if I'm not wrong - would seem to be daft.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Because it's notifiable, there's restrictions on what you, as a person, can legally do. The use of public transport is ruled for instance.
> Getting on a bus or train with a cold, and sneezing continuously might just be seen as impolite/bad manners. As for tonsillitis, can you pass it on to another person?



Is it, if I had Covid I legally couldn't get on a bus or go to work?

Having not tested for Covid other than for a pre op some time ago I wouldn't know if I've had it.


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## DaveReading (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Is it, if I had Covid I legally couldn't get on a bus or go to work?


You've already been given a link that spells out the implications of it being a notifiable disease.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

DaveReading said:


> You've already been given a link that spells out the implications of it being a notifiable disease.



Too much to read through, can I legally go to work or jump on a bus with Covid. Yes or No?


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## Ajax Bay (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> Because it's notifiable, there's restrictions on what you, as a person, can legally do. The use of public transport is ruled for instance.
> Getting on a bus or train with a cold, and sneezing continuously might just be seen as impolite/bad manners. As for tonsillitis, can you pass it on to another person?


Can you offer a link to the regulations which specify these restrictions, please? I went to look, but failed.
However (during looking), from a Supreme Court judgment have extracted this describing the early period:
_The emergence of COVID-19 and initial Government response_
12 Jan: WHO announced a novel coronavirus (cases in China); virus named “SARS-CoV-2”, and disease named “COVID-19”.
31 Jan: England’s first two COVID-19 positives.
10 Feb: Government Regulations for the detention and screening of persons suspected infected with SARS-CoV-2.
3 Mar: Government’s action plan with four phases of response: “contain”, “delay”, “research” and “mitigate”.
4 Mar: Government guidance on “social distancing” and asked people to think about how they could minimise contact with others.
5 Mar: COVID-19 was made a “notifiable disease in UK.
11 Mar: WHO declared COVID-19 to be a pandemic.
12 Mar: Move from Government “contain” phase to “delay” phase.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Can you offer a link to the regulations which specify these restrictions, please? I went to look, but failed.
> However (during looking), from a Supreme Court judgment have extracted this describing the early period:
> _The emergence of COVID-19 and initial Government response_
> 12 Jan: WHO announced a novel coronavirus (cases in China); virus named “SARS-CoV-2”, and disease named “COVID-19”.
> ...


When it became a notifiable disease, covid fell under Section 33 of The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17161321/


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> When it became a notifiable disease, covid fell under Section 33 of The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.
> 
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17161321/



Is it illegal for me to go to work with Covid then or not, can't be arsed wading through that lot.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Is it illegal for me to go to work with Covid then or not, can't be arsed wading through that lot.


You'll have to read it, because you're now asking a different question.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> You'll have to read it, because you're now asking a different question.



No I've not, I asked 2 questions initially and no one could give me a straight answer and now I've asked just the one.

You posted the link so you read it and give me the answer.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> You'll have to read it, because you're now asking a different question.





shep said:


> Is it, if I had Covid I legally couldn't get on a bus or go to work?


Here we are, same question but alongside another one. 

An answer to either would suffice?


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## fossyant (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Is it illegal for me to go to work with Covid then or not, can't be arsed wading through that lot.



YES, do what you like, skydive, surf, public transport.


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## Mike_P (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Too much to read through, can I legally go to work or jump on a bus with Covid. Yes or No?



Whether it's legal or not it's certainly not something that should be done as you will be exposing all other passengers and the driver to it. It's hardly surprising bus services across the country are being cancelled daily due to the lack of available drivers with no doubt many off work with covid.


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## Dogtrousers (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> Is it illegal for me to go to work with Covid then or not, can't be arsed wading through that lot.



If you can't be arsed then I guess you're not too bothered about finding answers to your questions.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> If you can't be arsed then I guess you're not too bothered about finding answers to your questions.



You obviously don't know either.

I don't believe it's illegal to go to work with Covid, if it was the Government instructed us to break the law. 

As useless as they may seem I doubt they would do that.


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## Mo1959 (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> You obviously don't know either.



I thought there are officially no legal restrictions now. It’s all just advisory is it not?


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Whether it's legal or not it's certainly not something that should be done as you will be exposing all other passengers and the driver to it. It's hardly surprising bus services across the country are being cancelled daily due to the lack of available drivers with no doubt many off work with covid.



Being legal or not is the debate here, nothing else. 

Apparently people call for debate on here and seek alternative opinions backed up with evidence?

I don't think it's illegal to go to work having tested positive for Covid, the Government seems to agree?


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> You'll have to read it, because you're now asking a different question.



So, is it illegal to go to work with Covid or not?


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## Dogtrousers (20 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> You obviously don't know either.


Nope. I don't. But if I wanted to find out I wouldn't be afraid of a bit of reading.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

fossyant said:


> YES, do what you like, skydive, surf, public transport.



And there we have it, free to legally go to work on the bus.


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## shep (20 Oct 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Nope. I don't. But if I wanted to find out I wouldn't be afraid of a bit of reading.



I didn't need to though did I ?


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## Ajax Bay (20 Oct 2022)

@classic33 I asked if you could share a link to the legal restrictions to the actions of a person with a notifiable disease.
You shared a link to this (quoting the abstract): "Section 33 of The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 makes it an offence for a person in England and Wales who is suffering from a notifiable disease, e.g. cholera, to use any bus, tram or train; or use a taxi without notifying the driver or owner of the vehicle . . .
"A literature review using PubMed did not reveal any evidence that buses, trains, trams or taxis provide a significant vehicle for transmission of notifiable diseases. Is it therefore about time that a non-evidence-based and little-used law is removed from the British statute books?"
So the restriction is that a person who knows or thinks they are so infected is required by law to tell the bus (or train (how would that work?)) driver they were or may be a carrier.
Don't get me wrong: if I think (testing or not) I've got a transmissible disease which might cause serious illness (last time for me was COVID-19 in July), I will not use public transport and will minimise any contact with others. I'm trying to tease out the legal implications for an individual who thinks or is so infected with SARS-CoV-19 virus with COVID-19 (still) being a notifiable disease.


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## classic33 (20 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> @classic33 I asked if you could share a link to the legal restrictions to the actions of a person with a notifiable disease.
> You shared a link to this (quoting the abstract): "Section 33 of The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 makes it an offence for a person in England and Wales who is suffering from a notifiable disease, e.g. cholera, to use any bus, tram or train; or use a taxi without notifying the driver or owner of the vehicle . . .
> "A literature review using PubMed did not reveal any evidence that buses, trains, trams or taxis provide a significant vehicle for transmission of notifiable diseases. Is it therefore about time that a non-evidence-based and little-used law is removed from the British statute books?"
> So the restriction is that a person who knows or thinks they are so infected is required by law to tell the bus (or train (how would that work?)) driver they were or may be a carrier.
> Don't get me wrong: if I think (testing or not) I've got a transmissible disease which might cause serious illness (last time for me was COVID-19 in July), I will not use public transport and will minimise any contact with others. I'm trying to tease out the legal implications for an individual who thinks or is so infected with SARS-CoV-19 virus with COVID-19 (still) being a notifiable disease.


They, the infected person, can be turned off the service. With no recourse to recover any monies lost as a result of their actions.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Oct 2022)

Had Pfizer bivakent abd flu jabs today. No arm pain and no side effects. In and out in a jiffy at GP.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Oct 2022)

Any problems with your thums?
ETA: The Moderna bivalent was approved by MHRA for adult booster doses on 15 Aug and they followed that with approval for the Pfizer version on 3 Sep. Around the country the Moderna Spikevax has been more available (pre-ordering and earlier approval) but the Pfizer is now rolling out (and @Ming is a beneficiary). They both have the same 'mode': a 50/50 mix of targetting the original virus 2020 strain and Omicron (seriousness of illness). Any effect on transmissibility is ~~~~
The Pfizer bivalent is the recommended booster vaccine for U/18s (the Moderna bivalent is not licensed for U/18s).


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Oct 2022)

shep said:


> You obviously don't know either.
> 
> I don't believe it's illegal to go to work with Covid, if it was the Government instructed us to break the law.
> 
> As useless as they may seem I doubt they would do that.



You’d be breaking the law using public transport, max fine £200


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## DaveReading (23 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You’d be breaking the law using public transport, max fine £200


Where in the world is there a law that says that ?


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## Alex321 (23 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You’d be breaking the law using public transport, max fine £200



I don't think so.

There WAS a time when, if you had a notifiable disease, it was an offence to travel on a public conveyance without notifying the driver (who could choose not to carry you). Public Health (control of disease) Act 1984.

That law is no longer in force. Repealed by the Health and Social Care Act 2008.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> There WAS a time when, if you had a notifiable disease, it was an offence to travel on a public conveyance without notifying the driver (who could choose not to carry you). Public Health (control of disease) Act 1984.
> 
> That law is no longer in force. Repealed by the Health and Social Care Act 2008.



Well if that is true then it’s bloody hard to tell from the government’s legislation website which still lists the law as in force.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Oct 2022)

DaveReading said:


> Where in the world is there a law that says that ?



On the government legislation website


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## Ajax Bay (23 Oct 2022)

Come on, @Ming the Merciless , give us a decent link (which you inferentially have accessed), with a section of an act and the key text.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Oct 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Come on, @Ming the Merciless , give us a decent link (which you inferentially have accessed), with a section of an act and the key text.



I found it via the link posted by Classic 33. I don’t have it hand as that was last night.


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## DaveReading (23 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Well if that is true then it’s bloody hard to tell from the government’s legislation website which still lists the law as in force.


The Act is still in force, but it no longer contains the provisions that you describe.


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## cougie uk (23 Oct 2022)

Goddamn. After all this time we've got it. Both had 4 jabs and feel crappy. Fingers crossed it goes quickly.


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## Slick (23 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Goddamn. After all this time we've got it. Both had 4 jabs and feel crappy. Fingers crossed it goes quickly.



Hopefully your both feeling as bad as your going to and you recover quickly.

4 jabs has got to mean something.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Oct 2022)

DaveReading said:


> The Act is still in force, but it no longer contains the provisions that you describe.



My point is that the provisions are still listed on the government legislation website. Make of that what you will.


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## SpokeyDokey (23 Oct 2022)

Apart from the vulnerable; is covid really a big deal for anyone that is up to date with their jabs?

It's very much way in the background of our life tbh.


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## tom73 (23 Oct 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Apart from the vulnerable; is covid really a big deal for anyone that is up to date with their jabs?
> 
> It's very much way in the background of our life tbh.



In short yes it can be the likelihood of death is much lower but you can still get pretty sick from its effects. Which may or may not require medical intervention. With or without a vaccination long covid can not be ruled out the effects of which are still not fully understood.


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## Slick (23 Oct 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Apart from the vulnerable; is covid really a big deal for anyone that is up to date with their jabs?
> 
> It's very much way in the background of our life tbh.



As it is in mine, despite following every rule for longer than most.


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## SpokeyDokey (23 Oct 2022)

tom73 said:


> In short yes it can be the likelihood of death is much lower but you can still get pretty sick from its effects. Which may or may not require medical intervention. With or without a vaccination long covid can not be ruled out the effects of which are still not fully understood.



I hear ya. 👍

But... I am of an age (66) where every year I stand a risk of catching and dying of flu or being diagnosed with some later-life end-game disease and tbh if I didn't shunt that into the background my life would be bereft of a certain amount of happiness.

I am fully up to date with covid and flu vaccinations, I stay as fit as I can and eat as well as I can - and that's all I'm going to do.

NB: in 2016 I was misdiagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease which lead to deep depression - once I got clear of that difficult time I vowed to just crack on and not fret about what may or may not befall me on the health front.

The above probably explains my stance on the Covid front.

And, as my GP said 6 years ago; "live long enough and you are almost certain to be clobbered by something horrible".

So... why worry?


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## tom73 (23 Oct 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I hear ya. 👍
> 
> But... I am of an age (66) where every year I stand a risk of catching and dying of flu or being diagnosed with some later-life end-game disease and tbh if I didn't shunt that into the background my life would be bereft of a certain amount of happiness.
> 
> ...




You just asked a straight question so i gave a straight answer 
Given your history no-one can blame you for weighting up the risks and doing what you feel is right for you.


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## cougie uk (23 Oct 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Apart from the vulnerable; is covid really a big deal for anyone that is up to date with their jabs?
> 
> It's very much way in the background of our life tbh.



Well it's not stopping us doing anything but as a fairly fit 54 year old I've not enjoyed my bout with covid. Thank god for the jabs.


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## Alex321 (23 Oct 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My point is that the provisions are still listed on the government legislation website. Make of that what you will.



Only if you look at the Act with the left hand button set to "Original(as enacted)".

If you click the "Latest Available", those provisions have been removed.

As enacted
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22/part/II/crossheading/public-conveyances/enacted

Latest Available
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22/part/II/crossheading/public-conveyances


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## Ajax Bay (23 Oct 2022)

tom73 said:


> In short yes it can be the likelihood of death is much lower but you can still get pretty sick from its effects. Which may or may not require medical intervention. With or without a vaccination long covid can not be ruled out the effects of which are still not fully understood.



Tom - welcome back. You disappeared 19 months ago, just as the January 2021 wave was decreasingly exponentially (partly due to the Government imposed New Year lockdown). Delighted you made it through that, the amazingly sucessful vaccination campaign, the sensible, phased approach to relaxing the restrictions April to July 2021, and the general NPIs since then. Hope you've got out on your bike for 1000s of miles.


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## DaveReading (23 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Only if you look at the Act with the left hand button set to "Original(as enacted)".
> 
> If you click the "Latest Available", those provisions have been removed.
> 
> ...


Exactly.

It's a bit like saying the text of the Magna Carta is on the Internet, so it all still applies.


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## DCLane (23 Oct 2022)

@DaveReading - for reference I went to view both Magna Carta and the Order of the Forests in Lincoln, which is the only place copies of both are on display together.

I left decidedly unimpressed with the two founding documents of British democracy.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2022)

Jabbed with Pfizer Bivalent and flu on Sat afternoon. Resting HR 6 beats higher than baseline and HRV normal on Sun morning. Slight chill and fatigue on Sunday. Resting HR and HRV normal this morning, and chill and fatigue gone.


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## Ajax Bay (29 Oct 2022)

Indie SAGE yesterday
From ONS data, assessed infection rate (14 days ago) about 3 in 100 across UK, and set to fall. Hospital admissions are lower than a couple of weeks ago but still nearly 1000 a day (NB about 62% with (incidental) and 38% because of) (primarily)).
Vaccine autumn booster uptake: over 75s = 76%, 65-74 = 63%, 50-64 = 45% (latter have only been eligible since 16 Oct) Concern that the 'willing' have mostly had it and further take-up will slow.
Variants: About a third now BQ.1 but most still BA.5 (all Omicron). Implications: unclear.
Flu:






Note:
1) Dash-dot-dash (with peak) is winter 18-19 (late peak in Feb), 
2) dots is 19-20 (before COVID-19 had any traction with peak on NYD),
3) dash-dot-dash is extraordinarily low (x-axis) is 20-21 during COVID-19 peak (Delta variant), and
4) dashes is 21-22 during COVID-19 peak (Omicron variant). Trangles are this autumn, so 'trajectory' well above recent previous years (could assume loss of immunity from two seasons of low exposure).


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## RoadRider400 (29 Oct 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Apart from the vulnerable; is covid really a big deal for anyone that is up to date with their jabs?
> 
> It's very much way in the background of our life tbh.



Personally it has been out of my mind for a good while. I decided that I was done after two jabs. Tend to go to the gym a couple of times a week at peak times so I expect I have been exposed to one variant or another since I last got poked in the arm.

Oh, I also caught it before the jabs were around. I presume the hardcore alpha version and other than no sense of smell and a cough that lasted an eternity I was fine.


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## Bazzer (29 Oct 2022)

Mum's care home is back in lockdown, so only 1 visitor at a time. And preferably with an LFT; although not compulsory! Although compulsory for staff.
Some visitors are apparent demanding the home provide them with LFTs otherwise they won't test. WTF! Societal responsibility?
Daughter 2 has a part time job in a care home run by a different company. Similar situation there.


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## Slick (29 Oct 2022)

Bazzer said:


> Mum's care home is back in lockdown, so only 1 visitor at a time. And preferably with an LFT; although not compulsory! Although compulsory for staff.
> Some* visitors are apparent demanding the home provide them with LFTs otherwise they won't test. WTF! *Societal responsibility?
> Daughter 2 has a part time job in a care home run by a different company. Similar situation there.


Hopefully that's not true, but anyone demanding anything should hang their head in shame.


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## Alex321 (29 Oct 2022)

Slick said:


> Hopefully that's not true, but anyone demanding anything should hang their head in shame.



Well they aren't avaiable for free any more (except for some special circumstances), and not all pharmacies stock them. It isn't easy for everybody to get hold of LFT packs now.


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## Stephenite (29 Oct 2022)

We've had a new round of Covid here at home.

First, I came down with what I was calling a bad cold, or the 'flu, last week. Which led to a couple of days off work and a day in bed. I didn't take a test - it just didn't occur to me. Then, at the start of the week, the SO and the kids became ill. The SO/gf made an over-the-phone appointment with her GP, and took a LFT prior to the call which showed a, very definite, second red line. The boy took a test which resulted in a faint line, and the girl showed negative. As did I. We've all had similar symptoms with the kids less so. It hasn't been as bad this time around and no loss of smell and taste, thank goodness.

What has been odd though is going in to work with (probably) Covid. I phoned in on the way there when the rest of the family first tested positive and I still had symptoms. I know the company policy is to treat the illness just as you would any other 'airway infection' but i wanted someone else to check for any new update i may have missed. So, this week I've been apologising for not being able to fist bump, shake your hand, snog you, etc. because I very likely have Corona. Today, I was working in a department with a young chap who i know is 'at risk'. When i explained to him the situation he became visibly worried and was quickly off to a neighbouring department. A little later i went for a chat (part work-related, part FPL-related) with a couple of chaps in another area and found out there was girl nearby who was also 'at risk'.

I am now worried for these people, and I don't think my company has thought through the implications of allowing known Corona-carriers to work/wander around in close proximity of, sharing the same pc/tools, etc. with, colleagues, especially those who may be at risk. I'll send an email to, and call, the relevant decision makers on Monday with my concerns, and see if we can ought to come up with some guidelines for the coming few months.

Anyway, me and the family are all on the mend.


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## Slick (29 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Well they aren't avaiable for free any more (except for some special circumstances), and not all pharmacies stock them. It isn't easy for everybody to get hold of LFT packs now.



Poor excuse in my humble opinion.

If any setting like a care home requests you test to help them keep everyone safe, then for the love of God, test.


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## Alex321 (30 Oct 2022)

Slick said:


> Poor excuse in my humble opinion.
> 
> If any setting like a care home requests you test to help them keep everyone safe, then for the love of God, test.



And these people are saying they will - provided they are supplied with the test to do it. Nobody is refusing to test AFAIK. Some are saying they need to be given a test to be able to.


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## Bazzer (30 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> And these people are saying they will - provided they are supplied with the test to do it. Nobody is refusing to test AFAIK. Some are saying they need to be given a test to be able to.


The feedback I have had is that some visitors will only do LFTs if they are free to them. If they have to pay for them they will not do them. To the best of my knowledge, availability is not the issue.
Daughter 2 is provided with LFTs by the home where she works P/T. But the home buys these in bulk and they are for staff use only as they are expected to test before attending the home. If +ve, you don't go to work. I assume a similar situation re the supply of LFTs to staff occurs at the home where my Mum lives. 
One of my Mum's main carers told my sister staff cannot work if +ve, yet they are helpless to stop someone who may be +ve.
Potentially the care of every resident is put at risk by this selfish behaviour.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Oct 2022)

Stephenite said:


> We've had a new round of Covid here at home.
> I am now worried for these people, and I don't think my company has thought through the implications of allowing known Corona-carriers to work/wander around in close proximity of, sharing the same pc/tools, etc. with, colleagues, especially those who may be at risk. I'll send an email to, and call, the relevant decision makers on Monday with my concerns, and see if we can ought to come up with some guidelines for the coming few months.
> Anyway, me and the family are all on the mend.


Glad all are getting better (or have got better). Ready for the early snow and, in due course, getting up to Holmenkollen skiløype.
"A new round of Covid" - up from 20 confirmed cases per million then?
Addressing the 'confirmed' issue: for UK the graph below shows a case incidence of 1 in 10,000 whereas the ONS assessment is infections running at 1 in 30. See also 'no general testing'.


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## oldwheels (30 Oct 2022)

Has anyone experienced muscle discomfort during and after a covid bout?

I developed a feeling in my thigh muscles that I had overdone physical exercise which has faded a bit over the last couple of weeks. This started the day before I tested positive. Having been digging potatoes I initially blamed that but I dig potatoes often with no after effects.
I had a similar feeling once in the past which was diagnosed as polymyalgia rheumatica and took a long time to clear up.

Perhaps this should be in the health and fitness section?


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## Ajax Bay (30 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> Has anyone experienced muscle discomfort during and after a covid bout? Perhaps this should be in the health and fitness section?


That's where you've posted it! (And no, not me.)


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## cougie uk (30 Oct 2022)

oldwheels said:


> Has anyone experienced muscle discomfort during and after a covid bout?
> 
> I developed a feeling in my thigh muscles that I had overdone physical exercise which has faded a bit over the last couple of weeks. This started the day before I tested positive. Having been digging potatoes I initially blamed that but I dig potatoes often with no after effects.
> I had a similar feeling once in the past which was diagnosed as polymyalgia rheumatica and took a long time to clear up.
> ...



Definitely. Achey legs have been a big thing with me this last week.


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## JtB (30 Oct 2022)

I had my flu vaccine on Wednesday and by Friday morning I was feeling quite under the weather. Since I had my Covid booster booked for the Friday afternoon I decided to carry out a LF test which proved Negative. I then went ahead with my Covid booster on Friday afternoon but my symptoms have since deteriorated from “quite under the weather” to “really grotty”. Anyway I did another LF test this morning which proved Positive. What I’m not sure about now is whether receiving the booster while already infected with Covid reduces the final protection provided by the booster.


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## tom73 (30 Oct 2022)

JtB said:


> I had my flu vaccine on Wednesday and by Friday morning I was feeling quite under the weather. Since I had my Covid booster booked for the Friday afternoon I decided to carry out a LF test which proved Negative. I then went ahead with my Covid booster on Friday afternoon but my symptoms have since deteriorated from “quite under the weather” to “really grotty”. Anyway I did another LF test this morning which proved Positive. What I’m not sure about now is whether receiving the booster while already infected with Covid reduces the final protection provided by the booster.



No still end up with same level of protection. What level however is dependant on immune response which is different from person to person.


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## lazybloke (1 Nov 2022)

Had my flu jab and bivalent pfizer covid booster in the same arm on Sunday afternoon.
The nurse warned the flu jab might "burn" - I didn't feel it at all.


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## fossyant (2 Nov 2022)

Got another victim in the household ! Wife had it a couple of weeks ago, none of us got it. Son went clubbing at weekend (first time in a long time) and seems to have picked it up - was off work today with a high temperature and cough, and has tested positive this evening.


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## vickster (3 Nov 2022)

Just been Spikevaxxed


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## Bazzer (3 Nov 2022)

My manager has caught it for the second time. First time was a couple of days before Christmas 2020. Late 50s and fully vaccinated, he felt unwell last week and tested +ve. He will be working from home until clear and isolating from his wife who is vulnerable.


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## fossyant (6 Nov 2022)

Daughter now positive and I'm feeling ropey but negative. Probably caught it from my son as he's not been isolating from us. Will test again tomorrow as due in work Tues to Thurs.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Nov 2022)

Finally caught it, first time to my knowledge. Unlikely to avoid it forever unless a hermit. Wife had symptoms first and a few days later I had some symptoms.

Timeline for me
Sore throat then blocked nose on Wed
Slight chill / temp as I went to bed Wed night
Didn’t sleep well Wed night
Nose running like crazy through Thu
Had a doze on Thu afternoon
Slight chill / temp gone by Thu evening
Now nose a mix of running and blocked and sore throat but both easing.

No loss of sense of taste or smell and no overwhelming fatigue. Thu afternoon nap was as much lack of good sleep overnight.

Boosted 20 days ago. It’s very much followed cold like symptoms but tested anyway to see.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Nov 2022)

My wife has a terrible cold at the moment. All classic cold symptoms rather than anything else, but we may use one of our dwindling supply of LFTs...
Edit. Last LFT used. Negative.


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## Ajax Bay (11 Nov 2022)

Incidence falling (ONS data) all across the UK, despite the Ming + 1 ping.




Hospital admission rate more than halved (from peak in early October).
Of those testing +ve, about 48% are in hospital 'with' rather than because of COVID-19.
(As the prevalence falls in the general population less, proportionately, will come in 'with' it.)
Flu seems slightly up but this varies across the metric used (see report):
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...d-19-surveillance-reports-2022-to-2023-season


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Nov 2022)

A colleague (Nhs hospital, facilities department), had to go home today: her and another collegue, they work very close, took a test just because there are a few cases of Coronavirus in the next ward.
To her astonishment, she tested positive, while the other colleague was negative.
No symptoms, just like it was for me when I tested positive.
Must be the 4 jabs


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## DaveReading (11 Nov 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Incidence falling (ONS data) all across the UK, despite the Ming + 1 ping.
> View attachment 667631
> 
> Hospital admission rate more than halved (from peak in early October).
> ...


Anecdotal evidence always trumps statistics.


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Nov 2022)

Another member of my team had to go home today after testing positive, I had to do a double shift ... meh!
One of our hospital wards has about 8 patients testing positive.
Nobody is severely ill with the virus, just symptoms similar to a cold.
None of the patients testing positive have been admitted because (or with) the virus, and, strangely, all staff members from my team testing positive had not been in contact with those patients.
The staff member that regularly goes in that ward is negative - hopefully stays like that or I'll need to do treble shifts


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## The Jogger (12 Nov 2022)

Last Saturday we buried my brother in law, he passed away from covid, he hadn't been vaccinated. He was 77 but active prior to falling ill.


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## Gillstay (13 Nov 2022)

Partner went for jab and talking to the staff found out the centre in Hereford had expected 700 but only 100 people turned up.
Doesn't bode well for the future I think.


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## fossyant (13 Nov 2022)

Meant to add I tested positive last Tuesday morning. Worked from home all week. It's been like a really heavy cold, thats settled on my chest. Rough in the morning until I cough up all the gunk. Lost taste and smell after a few days but returning now. Daughter has a really bad cough, and son can't get anywhere a doctor's appointment, verbal or in person as he needs a sick note for work. Doctor's surgery are impossible. Son was told don't go in until negative, but of course needs a sick note as been over a week.

Looks like I'll be working from home all week again, as my chest is hammered. Got a bit wheezy carrying stuff out of MIL's loft earlier. Not even thinking of trying to ride.


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## fossyant (13 Nov 2022)

I still wouldn't be advising catching covid unless you are relatively fit with a good CV system. It's hit us fairly hard. Even bad colds are enough to affect the old and frail.


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## tom73 (13 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> Meant to add I tested positive last Tuesday morning. Worked from home all week. It's been like a really heavy cold, thats settled on my chest. Rough in the morning until I cough up all the gunk. Lost taste and smell after a few days but returning now. Daughter has a really bad cough, and son can't get anywhere a doctor's appointment, verbal or in person as he needs a sick note for work. Doctor's surgery are impossible. Son was told don't go in until negative, but of course needs a sick note as been over a week.
> 
> Looks like I'll be working from home all week again, as my chest is hammered. Got a bit wheezy carrying stuff out of MIL's loft earlier. Not even thinking of trying to ride.



Assume he can’t get any appointment with anyone. Sick notes can now be issued by nurses. Take it he’s tried them too ? 

Sounds like your being put though the mill nothing worse than having it sitting on chest. Breathing go’s make every thing feel even worse. Rest up when you can and take it steady.


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## november4 (13 Nov 2022)

Had the double flu & booster last weekend and had a bit of a tired few days. A lot of it going around again here so hoping it will boost immunity up, been 9 months since had covid, and we all got off with mainly just fatigue then.


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## gavgav (23 Nov 2022)

I’ve succumbed to it for the first time, testing positive today 😫 Hoping it will be mild and not stick around too long


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## fossyant (23 Nov 2022)

gavgav said:


> I’ve succumbed to it for the first time, testing positive today 😫 Hoping it will be mild and not stick around too long



Take it easy - mine was OK for the first 7 days, then floored me ! Very wheezy and still not fit to cycle


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## Grant Fondo (23 Nov 2022)

Previous (Modena) jab ... zero effect.
Yesterdays Pfizer ... rough night, groggy this morning but headaches going.


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## gavgav (23 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> Take it easy - mine was OK for the first 7 days, then floored me ! Very wheezy and still not fit to cycle



Hope you feel better soon 🤞


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## gavgav (26 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> Take it easy - mine was OK for the first 7 days, then floored me ! Very wheezy and still not fit to cycle



Did you get awful fatigue and tiredness? Day 5 for me and whilst the cough, fever and cold type symptoms are improving, the extreme fatigue and tiredness have now hit, coming and going in waves.


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2022)

gavgav said:


> Did you get awful fatigue and tiredness? Day 5 for me and whilst the cough, fever and cold type symptoms are improving, the extreme fatigue and tiredness have now hit, coming and going in waves.



No, just a bad chest. Still bad with it, spent the morning coughing and nearly throwing up with it.


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## gavgav (27 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> No, just a bad chest. Still bad with it, spent the morning cughing and nearly throwing up with it.



It seems to affect everyone so differently. Hoping you will improve soon


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## Bazzer (27 Nov 2022)

gavgav said:


> It seems to affect everyone so differently. Hoping you will improve soon


My sister's second visitation of the virus, (fully vaccinated), has left her with a really bad sore throat.


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## Ajax Bay (27 Nov 2022)

Bazzer said:


> My sister's second visitation of the virus, (fully vaccinated), has left her with a really bad sore throat.


As a matter of interest @Bazzer (for their sister) (and others with recent illness which they've identified as from SARS-CoV-2 virus), how do you/they know? Are you/they using LFTs and if so are you buying these? If you have 'flu' symptoms, are you testing for flu, and if so how?
Comparison of the characteristics, morbidity, and mortality of COVID-19 and seasonal influenza
COVID-19 from original variant was found (Mar-Apr 2020) to be about 3 times more likely than influenza to result in death of those ill enough to be hospitalised. (My precis/edit)
*Findings: *89 530 patients hospitalised (France). . . median age 68 and 71 [so similar] for COVID-19 and influenza. Patients with COVID-19 were more frequently obese or overweight, and more frequently had diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia than patients with influenza, whereas those with influenza more frequently had heart failure, chronic respiratory disease, cirrhosis, and deficiency anaemia. Patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 more frequently developed acute respiratory failure, pulmonary embolism, septic shock, or haemorrhagic stroke than patients with influenza, but less frequently developed myocardial infarction or atrial fibrillation. In-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza 16·9% 5·8%: a relative risk of death of 2·9 [age-standardised similar]
*Interpretation: *Patients with COVID-19 and seasonal influenza requiring hospitalisation differs considerably: SARS-CoV-2 is likely to have a higher potential for respiratory pathogenicity, leading to more respiratory complications and to higher mortality.

Omicron, combined with high levels of 'immunity' (from vaccines or prior infection), is less likely to lead to serious illness, aiui.
Also for IFR comparison (from NZ): https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3883/rr


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## gavgav (27 Nov 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> As a matter of interest @Bazzer (for their sister) (and others with recent illness which they've identified as from SARS-CoV-2 virus), how do you/they know? Are you/they using LFTs and if so are you buying these? If you have 'flu' symptoms, are you testing for flu, and if so how?
> Comparison of the characteristics, morbidity, and mortality of COVID-19 and seasonal influenza
> COVID-19 from original variant was found (Mar-Apr 2020) to be about 3 times more likely than influenza to result in death of those ill enough to be hospitalised. (My precis/edit)
> *Findings: *89 530 patients hospitalised (France). . . median age 68 and 71 [so similar] for COVID-19 and influenza. Patients with COVID-19 were more frequently obese or overweight, and more frequently had diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia than patients with influenza, whereas those with influenza more frequently had heart failure, chronic respiratory disease, cirrhosis, and deficiency anaemia. Patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 more frequently developed acute respiratory failure, pulmonary embolism, septic shock, or haemorrhagic stroke than patients with influenza, but less frequently developed myocardial infarction or atrial fibrillation. In-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza 16·9% 5·8%: a relative risk of death of 2·9 [age-standardised similar]
> ...



I have LFT’s through work, so tested that way.


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## Bazzer (28 Nov 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> As a matter of interest @Bazzer (for their sister) (and others with recent illness which they've identified as from SARS-CoV-2 virus), how do you/they know? Are you/they using LFTs and if so are you buying these? If you have 'flu' symptoms, are you testing for flu, and if so how?


We both have a stock of bought LFTs, as does one of my daughters. Another daughter tests regularly for her casual work in a care home.
Our Mum/Grandma is in a care home and we take exposing her and other residents to infections seriously. So any if any of us feel unwell, not only do we not visit, but if Covid is suspected, we test.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> As a matter of interest @Bazzer (for their sister) (and others with recent illness which they've identified as from SARS-CoV-2 virus), how do you/they know? Are you/they using LFTs and if so are you buying these?



I had some of the free packs of LFT still left. Now down to about 10 LFTs. Only tested as had symptoms and was curious. Expected it to show as negative to be honest, as you wouldn’t tell difference between my Covid symptoms and what I’d get from a cold. I can’t comment on flu symptoms as never had the flu.


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## Ajax Bay (28 Nov 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I had some of the free packs of LFT still left. Now down to about 10 LFTs. Only tested as had symptoms and was curious. Expected it to show as negative to be honest, as you wouldn’t tell difference between my Covid symptoms and what I’d get from a cold. I can’t comment on flu symptoms as never had the flu.


I'm in the same boat: a few LFTs left.
"I . . . as never had the flu." How do you know? Maybe that cold was flu?


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> I'm in the same boat: a few LFTs left.
> "I . . . as never had the flu." How do you know? Maybe that cold was flu?



I’ve never had flu symptoms, if I’ve had flu it’s only presented as a cold symptoms


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## cougie uk (28 Nov 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I’ve never had flu symptoms, if I’ve had flu it’s only presented as a cold symptoms



You've not had flu then. It's much much worse than a cold. 

I thought I had had flu before until I got flu.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2022)

cougie uk said:


> You've not had flu then. It's much much worse than a cold.
> 
> I thought I had had flu before until I got flu.



Well it’s my view I haven’t had flu, but @Ajax Bay reckons you can have flu present as cold symptoms.


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## Alex321 (28 Nov 2022)

cougie uk said:


> You've not had flu then. It's much much worse than a cold.
> 
> I thought I had had flu before until I got flu.



I suspect it varies from person to person, just as COVID did. For many people, the symptoms of COVID were very much worse than a cold, for others (including me), it wasn't even a particularly severe cold.

I don't *think* I've ever had flu, but it is possible I have. I did have one "cold" when I was in university that was bad enough for me to take to my bed for two days. That is the only time in my life I have had one bad enough to do more than make me go to bed a few hours earlier than usual in the evening. But as I say, COVID for me had the symptoms of a fairly minor cold, for about 2 days (though I continued testing positive for 10 days).


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## gavgav (30 Nov 2022)

Negative LFT today, on day 8. Still fatigued and slightly breathless/tight chest at times. Managed a 10 minute walk today and so that’s a start.


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## PaulSB (18 Dec 2022)

Positive LFT this morning with runny nose, sore throat and hacking cough. It must be a community acquired as I haven't done anything or been anywhere other than general shopping and a supermarket visit.


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

Felt dreadful Sunday and tested positive. By Tuesday morning I was symptom free and today have nothing more than what feels like the tail end of a minor cold.

With a family Christmas coming up we've been checking current guidance. I was quite surprised by this. My wife is a highly experienced health professional so I'm confident in her research.

One is considered infectious for three days prior to testing positive. If one is symptom free five days after testing positive one can resume "normal" life without the need to take a second test or wait for a negative. If meeting with a vulnerable person mask wearing is advised.

This will mean I should be clear Friday morning. Frustrated as we've two consecutive days of great cycling weather.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Dec 2022)

Retest again to ensure you are now negative


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## Mo1959 (21 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Felt dreadful Sunday and tested positive. By Tuesday morning I was symptom free and today have nothing more than what feels like the tail end of a minor cold.
> 
> With a family Christmas coming up we've been checking current guidance. I was quite surprised by this. My wife is a highly experienced health professional so I'm confident in her research.
> 
> ...



Where are you reading that as this is all I can see?


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Retest again to ensure you are now negative



No point. I would test positive, that's why we are surprised by the guidance. I believe the point is after five days symptom free one is not considered a risk.


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## vickster (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Where are you reading that as this is all I can see?
> View attachment 671844



Full info here https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...reatment/when-to-self-isolate-and-what-to-do/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/people-with-symptoms-of-a-respiratory-infection-including-covid-19


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> No point. I would test positive, that's why we are surprised by the guidance. I believe the point is after five days symptom free one is not considered a risk.



There is a point, if you still test positive you are likely still infectious. This isn’t about just following government guidance, which has been somewhat off at times, but doing the right thing. The average time people are testing positive is 9 to 10 days.


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Where are you reading that as this is all I can see?
> View attachment 671844



Mrs P has been reading this Mo, not me. I'm being guided by her 40+ years experience as a health care professional. I can guarantee she doesn't play around with this stuff. 

I get the same as you when I Google. I'll find out for you later.


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## Mo1959 (21 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Mrs P has been reading this Mo, not me. I'm being guided by her 40+ years experience as a health care professional. I can guarantee she doesn't play around with this stuff.
> 
> I get the same as you when I Google. I'll find out for you later.



It's ok. Vickster gave the link.


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

vickster said:


> Full info here https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...reatment/when-to-self-isolate-and-what-to-do/
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/people-with-symptoms-of-a-respiratory-infection-including-covid-19



Thanks. @Mo1959 vickster beat me to it.


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## Mo1959 (21 Dec 2022)

Personally I'm of the opinion it's time to move on and treat it like any other winter cold/flu now that it is a much milder variant. Just use a bit of common sense and stay away from anyone older/compromised.


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## tom73 (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Personally I'm of the opinion it's time to move on and treat it like any other winter cold/flu now that it is a much milder variant. Just use a bit of common sense and stay away from anyone older/compromised.



Does that go for health, care/nursing home and community care settings ? 
What milder variant? 
Problem is we tried common sense and it did not work. This is public health and the state have completely walk away from it and expect others to deal with the mess. Or ignore the problem and hope it go's away. 
You don't get long flu just within the health service last year long covid cost 1M lost working hours. 
Factor that up on the whole economy covid is still costing us a mint.


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Personally I'm of the opinion it's time to move on and treat it like any other winter cold/flu now that it is a much milder variant. Just use a bit of common sense and stay away from anyone older/compromised.



I'd agree with you Mo, though I feel it's worthwhile being extra cautious during the five days after testing positive, meaning I won't go near anyone during that period. When I was positive last Christmas my symptoms were a 24 hour sniffle and I had randomly tested before a planned visit to a vulnerable person. This time horrid symptoms for 36 hours and since then I've felt fine. I've had many a cold or cough run on much longer than this.


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## Ajax Bay (21 Dec 2022)

Paul - my anecdata
(Almost certainly) caught 'it' at the first large gathering I attended (in July) on a Thursday. Felt rough Sunday evening; bit better Mon am; tested (LFT) +ve Mon am; symptom free Tue am; following Monday wanting to celebrate mother's birthday (in 90s, she'd 'had it' lightly a couple of months earlier) with her and my siblings (one immune-compromised) I tested again (so this is 8 days after first symptoms and 12 days after catching): still +ve. Didn't go, not because I thought I'd be infectious but because of sister desperate not to take risk (she caught it elsewhere a few weeks later) and more or less said: don't come. They had a great time; and I missed out on celebrating my mother's birthday with her/them. My mother lost out; so did I.


tom73 said:


> Does that go for health, care/nursing home and community care settings ?
> What milder variant?


May not be milder but in a population with a very good measure of protection if not immunity against serious illness, the effects of infection are magnitudes less.
Do you think people should behave in a different manner if they have flu rather than COVID-19 in "health, care/nursing home and community care settings"? Do you advocate we produce and distribute flu tests? I'd not go into one of those settings if I had flu.
Are you sure that 'long flu' is not a thing? I'm sure if someone suggests that all manner of ailments could be associated with it, rightly or wrongly.
Tom: "we tried common sense and it did not work"
What do you recommend instead? Are there particular NPI measures you'd want to have instated now? Hospital and care home wide wearing of quality masks (indoors) could be a candidate. I'd like to see ventilation for public/semi-public (eg schools) group spaces vastly improved.


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## fossyant (21 Dec 2022)

I'm still not 100% - caught it from my son in early November. First week, nothing more than a head cold. Then it hit my chest, very wheezy for 3-5 days then negatve and back in work. Remained wheezy with an occasional hacking cough. It's still there but much reduced, but could easily be one of the many lingering colds people seem to be getting at the moment. I'm holding off exercise till after Christmas - will have been 2 months off the bike !

My SIL works at the care home MIL used to be in (she's no longer with us) and Covid is rampant again in the home with lots of controls in to try and stop the spread - it's ripping through and they have had numerous deaths. It's one of those things like respiratory infections/flu etc that is here to stay and will take people with other serious health issues.


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## Mo1959 (21 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Are you sure that 'long flu' is not a thing?



Maybe not described as long flu, but post viral fatigue can be quite common after flu. 

Not trying to downplay Covid, but there’s far more pressing medical issues now and will be in the future because it has delayed so much so I feel it’s time to start concentrating on these.


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## Ajax Bay (21 Dec 2022)

ONS data: 
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths

Week ending 9 Dec, 11,694 deaths were registered in England and Wales; 1.8% of those deaths (221) of these deaths had COVID-19 recorded as the underlying cause.
3% increase in all deaths compared with previous week: COVID-19 accounted for about the same %.
Rate (all causes) above the five-year average in private homes (19.9%), hospitals (2.3%) and other settings (7.5%), but below the five-year average in care homes (-1.6% below, 39 fewer deaths)
Rest of UK: 1647 deaths: 6.5% above the five-year average (for this week of the year).


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## SpokeyDokey (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Maybe not described as long flu, but post viral fatigue can be quite common after flu.
> 
> Not trying to downplay Covid, but there’s far more pressing medical issues now and will be in the future because it has delayed so much so I feel it’s time to start concentrating on these.



I'm with you - time to move on but trust the authorities will keep a watchful eye.

Neither Mrs SD or I have had Covid and we have mingled normally ever since the last restrictions were lifted ie when we didn't have to wear masks any more - ages ago.

We have a fairly wide circle of family and friends and, again, it is ages since we heard of one of them having Covid.

Tbh we have pretty much forgotten about Covid in our house and it rarely comes up in conversation with those we know.


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## vickster (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Maybe not described as long flu, but post viral fatigue can be quite common after flu.
> 
> Not trying to downplay Covid, but there’s far more pressing medical issues now and will be in the future because it has delayed so much so I feel it’s time to start concentrating on these.



What specifically?
Problem is if medical staff have Covid, they don’t work due to the risk of exposing often elderly, sick, vulnerable patients.
If their patients waiting on less urgent appts have Covid, they won’t be seen due to the risk of exposing staff and other patients and so appointments get cancelled if a remote appointment isn’t possible or appropriate


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## PaulSB (21 Dec 2022)

@Ajax Bay - thank you for that. Pretty much where we are.

@Mo1959 @vickster - I'm in full agreement with you both which simply demonstrates how very difficult this all is.

@SpokeyDokey - we've done the same as you but in our closest immediate circle four tested positive inside 48 hours this week. We live perhaps 200 metres apart. My two regular riding buddies have just finished isolation after having Covid. Just what do we do? I've no idea.

From the very beginning we have adhered to Government/NHS guidance, whatever one's opinion on this. Having returned from Vietnam/Cambodia before things got bad here I was following my own routine of cleaning table, cutlery, hand gel, handwashing etc. in cafes, to the amusement of some riding buddies.

The NHS Covid app, after reporting symptoms and test result, advises to avoid contact with people until the 22nd and 23rd respectively. Mrs P, highly experienced health professional of 41 years, has done the research etc.

It's the first Christmas, ever, sons, partners, grandchildren would be together. We've given the kids the exact situation without comment and will leave them to make their own decisions.

I'm not sure we, or any family, could take another approach though I accept there is a view one should avoid all contact till testing negative.........but life has to go on and I may well have contracted this from someone who made no effort to protect others?


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## Ajax Bay (21 Dec 2022)

Indie Sage of Friday offered this advice:


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## tom73 (21 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Paul - my anecdata
> (Almost certainly) caught 'it' at the first large gathering I attended (in July) on a Thursday. Felt rough Sunday evening; bit better Mon am; tested (LFT) +ve Mon am; symptom free Tue am; following Monday wanting to celebrate mother's birthday (in 90s, she'd 'had it' lightly a couple of months earlier) with her and my siblings (one immune-compromised) I tested again (so this is 8 days after first symptoms and 12 days after catching): still +ve. Didn't go, not because I thought I'd be infectious but because of sister desperate not to take risk (she caught it elsewhere a few weeks later) and more or less said: don't come. They had a great time; and I missed out on celebrating my mother's birthday with her/them. My mother lost out; so did I.
> 
> May not be milder but in a population with a very good measure of protection if not immunity against serious illness, the effects of infection are magnitudes less.
> ...



I'm fully aware that flu can be of post viral. I was just trying to keep my post simple and not complicate it by having to explain long covid is no way the same as general post viral infections. Covid can effect any part of the body only last week someone with long covid due to extreme lung damage had a double lung transplant. One of Mrs 73 repertory clinics is full of lung issues due to covid. We know two friends who have it they've been off work and mostly in bed for well over a year. It's the extremes of long covid that set aport form others and the cost to health service and wider society. 

As for Flu we have tried and tested flu surveillance program so know what it's up to and can spot and plan for issues and effects. 
Something we never had for covid barrier nursing is standard practice for flu in health settings. 
We can open up and keep covid down to minimum levels as pre other infectious desires with effective mitigation. If we'd spent a 10th of what was wasted on unsafe PPE and failed track and trace. On improving and fitting effective ventilation of all health and public buildings we'd be well out of it. 

What ever measures or advice we now wish to do or go with it's meaningless without effective and fully funded public health teams and awareness campaign. Covid turned public health into a political battle field to suit failed govermant policy. Which Public health is not likely to ever recover from. 

Pepole are free to do what they like but make no bones about it this things is not over it's effects maybe less for most but for every admission or primary care patient with covid or its effects. That's capacity that was free a few a years ago. One health worker off with it is one less to care for others. The current state of things it wont take much to push our health service over the edge. We just all need to think and look out for each other. Sadly we don't live in world like that.


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## tom73 (21 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> I'm still not 100% - caught it from my son in early November. First week, nothing more than a head cold. Then it hit my chest, very wheezy for 3-5 days then negatve and back in work. Remained wheezy with an occasional hacking cough. It's still there but much reduced, but could easily be one of the many lingering colds people seem to be getting at the moment. I'm holding off exercise till after Christmas - will have been 2 months off the bike !
> 
> My SIL works at the care home MIL used to be in (she's no longer with us) and Covid is rampant again in the home with lots of controls in to try and stop the spread - it's ripping through and they have had numerous deaths. It's one of those things like respiratory infections/flu etc that is here to stay and will take people with other serious health issues.



Sadly the government don't think that last week they quietly removed the requirement for mask wearing in care homes. One Health minister said just in time for Christmas so residents can see smiling facers. Never mind it maybe be the last one they see.


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## cougie uk (21 Dec 2022)

tom73 said:


> Sadly the government don't think that last week they quietly removed the requirement for mask wearing in care homes. One Health minister said just in time for Christmas so residents can see smiling facers. Never mind it maybe be the last one they see.



Government just thinking they'll save on pensions? I'd not put it past them. 

I had Covid at the start of November and I'm well over it now but I do get really tired after exercise now. No issue whilst exercising but I really do drop off to a very heavy sleep after a decent workout. 
That's new for me.


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## Slick (21 Dec 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Where are you reading that as this is all I can see?
> View attachment 671844


As ever Mo, we have specific guidance that may differ slightly from the UK equivalent.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesse...ing/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-covid-19


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## Scaleyback (24 Dec 2022)

Yep, avoided it until yesterday. That's totally wrecked the Xmas plans. 
We have that much food in to feed planned guests, Oh well the least I can do
is eat it so it doesn't waste. 🥩🥮🍰🥃
I'm feeling ok, heavy cold symptoms.


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## DRHysted (24 Dec 2022)

If it’s any consolation I finally tested positive for COVID Thursday night. Rather annoyingly my company’s COVID policy is five days off, which is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, bank holiday Monday, and bank holiday Tuesday. So I should be returning to work on Wednesday!!


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## MichaelW2 (24 Dec 2022)

I got covid during my vaccation last year. Grrr.


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## newts (24 Dec 2022)

We too have a fridge full of food to share between 2 of us. I tested positive (3rd time for me) yesterday, we were expecting 11 family members for Christmas dinner.


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## Regular.Cyclist (24 Dec 2022)

I’ve been incredibly lucky and never caught COVID despite my wife catching it twice.


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## Tim Bennet. (24 Dec 2022)

My luck ran out yesterday. Mrs Bennet has brought covid home from her office party.

Nothing says Merry Christmas like a positive lateral flow test. On the up side is we won't have to go shopping again until Easter. It'll take that long for two people to eat all this food.


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## Cycleops (24 Dec 2022)

I've had it three times, despite having the jabs. Not nice. Drink plenty of water and vitamin C. 
My boyhood friend in the UK refused the vaccine, caught it and unfortunately died.


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## Scaleyback (25 Dec 2022)

Is this the best Christmas ever ? . . . 
Just me, my lovely wife,, a box of Mr Kipling mince pies
and a bitch called Covid. 😮


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## jowwy (25 Dec 2022)

Scaleyback said:


> Is this the best Christmas ever ? . . .
> Just me, my lovely wife,, a box of Mr Kipling mince pies
> and a bitch called Covid. 😮



Sounds like heaven to me….except for the covid of course.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Dec 2022)

Wham wrote about it years ago with Last Christmas 

Last Christmas, I gave you my Covid
But the very next day, you gave it away
This year, to save me from tears
I'll give it to someone special


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## CXRAndy (25 Dec 2022)

I treat it like a cold now. Tell people I have it, upto them if they want to come around or un inivite me.


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## cougie uk (25 Dec 2022)

Cycleops said:


> I've had it three times, despite having the jabs. Not nice. Drink plenty of water and vitamin C.
> My boyhood friend in the UK refused the vaccine, caught it and unfortunately died.



Tragic.


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## Cathryn (25 Dec 2022)

My husband tested positive for the first time this morning! Poor bloke!


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## cyberknight (26 Dec 2022)

did a test this morning as i have felt rough for a couple of weeks, im clear but the last couple of days i havent taken any meds and felt like death warmed up so its back on the sudafed again


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2022)

Cathryn said:


> My husband tested positive for the first time this morning! Poor bloke!



Did you gift wrap it for him to open under the tree?


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## Zanelad (26 Dec 2022)

I tested positive today as well. Tickly throat yesterday which has gone to be replaced by a sporadic cough. I'd dodged it for nigh on three years, even when Mrs Z contracted it in hospital and was ischarged still testing positive. Bugger.


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## Ratchet Cat (27 Dec 2022)

I tested positive 2 days ago. Felt rough on Christmas Eve. My husband tested positive for it just before Christmas.
I've had the shivers, achy joints, coughing and sneezing a lot. Plenty of food in and off work for a bit.
I've had all my jabs. It could have been a lot worse.
I'm just taking stuff for the symptoms.

Get well soon everyone 🙂


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

3rd day off the bike /turbo and im getting grumpy now , eating too much junk as comfort food which doesnt help my mood either 
Still full of the green snot and sleeping a lot .


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## vickster (27 Dec 2022)

Respiratory viruses will do that unfortunately, just need to wait it out (or see a doctor if it turns into a bacterial infection)


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

vickster said:


> Respiratory viruses will do that unfortunately, just need to wait it out (or see a doctor if it turns into a bacterial infection)



having to be restrained from riding , even the turbo is banned so i missed the post x mas club ride today


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## vickster (27 Dec 2022)

Why can’t you just gently spin on the turbo?


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

vickster said:


> Why can’t you just gently spin on the turbo?



Mrs CK on guard ............


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## Hebe (27 Dec 2022)

Get well soon everyone. We all had a second dose of covid in early/mid Dec, recovery has been slower this time and not helped by the snow/ice/cold.


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## Scaleyback (28 Dec 2022)

6th day testing positive (may be more ? ) I'm doing ok but I'm pi**ed off being 'shut off' Is there such a thing as an average number of positive days ?


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## fossyant (28 Dec 2022)

Scaleyback said:


> 6th day testing positive (may be more ? ) I'm doing ok but I'm pi**ed off being 'shut off' Is there such a thing as an average number of positive days ?



You don't have to stop in. Yes, don't go to work etc, but you can go out, no rules against that, although it's wise not to. You can test positive for a long time. I was negative after two weeks, but had been popping out, with minimal contact in the second week (despite feeling worse).


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2022)

Scaleyback said:


> 6th day testing positive (may be more ? ) I'm doing ok but I'm pi**ed off being 'shut off' Is there such a thing as an average number of positive days ?



Average (not sure which of the three) is 9 or 10 days.


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## PaulSB (28 Dec 2022)

Scaleyback said:


> 6th day testing positive (may be more ? ) I'm doing ok but I'm pi**ed off being 'shut off' Is there such a thing as an average number of positive days ?



If you are symptom free on the fifth day after the original test you're free to stop isolating. So a Sunday positive would mean symptom free on the following Friday and you can rejoin society. There is no need for a negative test.


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## cyberknight (28 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> You don't have to stop in. Yes, don't go to work etc, but you can go out, no rules against that, although it's wise not to. You can test positive for a long time. I was negative after two weeks, but had been popping out, with minimal contact in the second week (despite feeling worse).



our place gives you 5 days then expects you in masked up positive or not assuming you are capable


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## Scaleyback (28 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> You don't have to stop in. Yes, don't go to work etc, but you can go out, no rules against that, although it's wise not to. You can test positive for a long time. I was negative after two weeks, but had been popping out, with minimal contact in the second week (despite feeling worse).



Yes,I have been out walking, twice a day since day1 of infection. Usually with my wife, who has thus far avoided catching it (previously had it in july) I am careful to keep my distance from everyone.
I am retired so relative isolation is not difficult.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> If you are symptom free on the fifth day after the original test you're free to stop isolating. So a Sunday positive would mean symptom free on the following Friday and you can rejoin society. There is no need for a negative test.



Somewhat selfish attitude if you are still testing positive and likely infectious


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## PaulSB (28 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Somewhat selfish attitude if you are still testing positive and likely infectious



No, it's a question of commonsense, obviously one doesn't indulge in close physical contact. Those with Covid-19 are infectious 3-4 days *before* showing symptoms and testing positive and infectious for up to ten days. If *symptom free *on the fifth day after testing, that is six days from taking the test, and nine or ten days from the start of being infectious, the viral load is considered below that which is a threat.

With some care there is no reason why one should not go out.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/people-with-symptoms-of-a-respiratory-infection-including-covid-19


https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...reatment/when-to-self-isolate-and-what-to-do/


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> No, it's a question of commonsense, obviously one doesn't indulge in close physical contact. Those with Covid-19 are infectious 3-4 days *before* showing symptoms and testing positive and infectious for up to ten days. If *symptom free *on the fifth day after testing, that is six days from taking the test, and nine or ten days from the start of being infectious, the viral load is considered below that which is a threat.
> 
> With some care there is no reason why one should not go out.
> 
> ...



The NHS response to a positive test is to say you are likely infectious. Why ignore that!


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## PaulSB (28 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The NHS response to a positive test is to say you are likely infectious. Why ignore that!



Where did I say to ignore the result of a test?


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Where did I say to ignore the result of a test?



Here



PaulSB said:


> If you are symptom free on the fifth day after the original test you're free to stop isolating.


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## Scaleyback (28 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Here



Don't fall out guys. I have no intention of going near anyone until I am clearly negative.


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## fossyant (28 Dec 2022)

Wouldn't worry about it, there are planes full of covid positive people now flying, especially from China.


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## newts (28 Dec 2022)

Tested negative today (day 5), seem to be recovering quicker than previous bouts. 🍻


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> Wouldn't worry about it, there are planes full of covid positive people now flying, especially from China.



It’s alright we’ve gone on strike at airports and train stations to stop the spread


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## PaulSB (28 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Here



Where have I suggested one should ignore the result of a test? Please point to where I stated this? You can't.

I have shown the current "guidance," for want of a better word, nothing more or less. Would you care to provide some support to your suggestion I have not? You can't.


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## Salad Dodger (29 Dec 2022)

Mrs Salad had her first ever faint positive COVID test yesterday. She's got a head cold, and a sore throat, but is otherwise fine.
I suppose I shall see in a few days whether she has passed it on to me...


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## Scaleyback (29 Dec 2022)

Yah ! negative on day 7 . . . Let's party. 🤹‍♀️ 🎭


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## Ajax Bay (29 Dec 2022)

Excess mortality (ie number more than the 2015-2019 average)





Maybe if we'd followed the Swedish model (restrained NPIs, schools kept open) there would have been less excess deaths, but I suspect there are so many different factors in play (NB higher percentage of Sweden's population (10M) live in towns/cities than UK). Germany's looking to climb past UK's total (but pop. is 25% larger).


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## Andy in Germany (29 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Excess mortality (ie number more than the 2015-2019 average)
> View attachment 672634
> 
> Maybe if we'd followed the Swedish model (restrained NPIs, schools kept open) there would have been less excess deaths, but I suspect there are so many different factors in play (NB higher percentage of Sweden's population (10M) live in towns/cities than UK). Germany's looking to climb past UK's total (but pop. is 25% larger).



Also our gov't is reluctant to bring back masks and other restrictions. I understand it but with the C-19, cold and Flu going up I think they need to move a bit...


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## Ajax Bay (29 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> our gov't is reluctant to bring back masks and other restrictions.


Would you care to offer a reference for the efficacy of various "other restrictions"?
What would be your 'favourite', Andy?


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## Andy in Germany (29 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Would you care to offer a reference for the efficacy of various "other restrictions"?
> What would be your 'favourite', Andy?



For example, non essential events where people would be in close proximity. I see the point though; to be truly effective a lockdown needs to be complete, which at the moment wouldn't be possible.


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## Ajax Bay (29 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> For example, non essential events where people would be in close proximity. I see the point though; to be truly effective a lockdown needs to be complete, which at the moment wouldn't be possible.


Good luck writing and enforcing that law, were it enacted.
Didn't China just try to do this? Did that end well?


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## Andy in Germany (30 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Good luck writing and enforcing that law, were it enacted.
> Didn't China just try to do this? Did that end well?



Indeed, that's the dilemma. 
Then you add the federal structure of our government so the states would have to agree to new restrictions even after the federal government has agreed to it. This is for very good historical reasons and intended to make sure no-one can introduce legislation that takes people's freedom away. 
At the moment the death rate seems to be slowing. I can't find the statistics on Long Covid though.
Currently the main restriction is that we have to wear masks on public transport, which I'm glad about. This has been in force for at least a year now and there's no sign of it going away. I tend to wear a mask in shops although it's not mandated. I'm in an 'at risk' group so if I can avoid catching C-19 or indeed a cold or flu, then I want to.


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## PeteXXX (30 Dec 2022)

Northampton & Kettering hospitals have suspended visiting and masks are compulsory.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Dec 2022)

I think masking by default (or wearing an 'exempt' lanyard) in a hospital/surgery/care home setting (latter of the staff, not inmates) is entirely reasonable and sensible, and is within the gift of those institutions/buildings management to impose/enforce.
Improved ventilation/air exchange on public transport and indoor close stranger settings is an improvement opportunity I fear we will not grasp.
Not in favour of broad brush visiting restrictions in illness/care settings. One of the pandemic's tragedies is the general prevention of close(st) relatives not being able to visit/'say goodbye'.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> At the moment the death rate [in Germany with COVID-19 as cause/part cause] seems to be slowing. I can't find the statistics on Long Covid though.


On 'per million' death rates - see graph.
In UK - see text below graph.
Getting quality stats on 'long COVID' (any nation) will be an unsolvable challenge (imho).
A starter is the WHO definition of 'it' (see below graph).




England and Wales - Week 49 (9 Dec), 11,694 deaths; 6.2% above average (687 excess deaths) of which 326 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, 2.8% of all deaths.
Post COVID-19 Condition, commonly known as 'long COVID'
" defined as the continuation or development of new symptoms [within the] 3 months after the initial SARS-CoV-2 infection, with these symptoms lasting for at least 2 months with no other explanation. 
" common symptoms of long COVID can include fatigue, shortness of breath and cognitive dysfunction, [but] over 200 different symptoms have been reported that can have an impact on everyday functioning."


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## Ajax Bay (30 Dec 2022)

Flights into Rome from Beijing direct on Boxing Day.
On arrival the Italian airport staff tested all on board. First flight 38% +ve. Second flight 51% +ve.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2022)

Ajax Bay said:


> Flights into Rome from Beijing direct on Boxing Day.
> On arrival the Italian airport staff tested all on board. First flight 38% +ve. Second flight 51% +ve.



Source?


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## midlife (30 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Source?



Was all over the news a couple of days ago.. The link name is a bit odd! 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-pa...hong-kong-as-restrictions-are-lifted-12775498

UK now asking for negative test before getting on a plane in china


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## Salad Dodger (30 Dec 2022)

Update on Mrs Salad:
Her COVID test today was a very positive positive (if you see what I mean) but she is feeling rather better than the last few days. A bit of a head cold today, but without the sore throat. Currently, she is sitting on the sofa, happily watching Disney films......


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## Psamathe (1 Jan 2023)

With the levels of virus being suggested in China, new variants must be a concern. Very difficult to know what is really going on as some of the official reports I've read from China are somewhat difficult to believe.

Without reliable information about variants from Chinese authorities I can't see how pre-boarding flight testing is going to achieve much; we already have plenty of virus circulating in UK and stopping infected people boarding means we wont get a chance to identify variants (which will get to us in the end whatever we do).

That said, I'm not a professional epidemiologist to and happy to follow their best advice.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/31/sunaks-u-turn-on-china-covid-tests-is-a-political-move-say-scientists said:


> The health secretary Steve Barclay was briefed by the chief medical officer Chris Whitty on Thursday and was told there was no clear evidence of significant benefits from testing travellers from China.


Ian


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## Ajax Bay (1 Jan 2023)

Psamathe said:


> some of the official reports I've read from China are somewhat difficult to believe.


You have mastered that 'massive understatement' thingy.
In April China required the test protocol below.
Passengers who have no infection history and vaccinated 3 times PCR tests and 1 rapid antigen testing (RAT) before boarding, all the results are required to be negative.
PCR 7 days before boarding and start quarantining
PCR 48 hours before boarding
PCR 24 hours before boarding
Rapid antigen test within 12 hours before boarding - report presented at check-in
China government followed the science but chose an entirely predictably impractical strategic goal (of zero COVID).
Tragically whereas the various national tactics across the world 'flattened the wave' to an extent, the older disproportionately unvaccinated Chinese will suffer catastrophic IFR and health care services.


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## Psamathe (1 Jan 2023)

Ajax Bay said:


> ...
> Tragically whereas the various national tactics across the world 'flattened the wave' to an extent, the older disproportionately unvaccinated Chinese will suffer catastrophic IFR and health care services.
> ...


Plus, even those who are vaccinated are vaccinated with a less effective vaccine than used throughout many other parts of the world.

Ian


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## gbb (Yesterday at 06:33)

My wife has had Covid for maybe 4 or 5 days lots and lots of coughing, poor sleep, lethargy etc etc

This is her second bout and it's worse than the first.





I developed a head cold 3 days ago, she keeps insisting it might be covid.

No, it feels every inch like a common cold, bad enough but had worse.

Took a test this morning for the sake of my colleagues as much as anything else...negative.

Still not had covid yet....


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## fossyant (Yesterday at 08:29)

gbb said:


> My wife has had Covid for maybe 4 or 5 days lots and lots of coughing, poor sleep, lethargy etc etc
> 
> This is her second bout and it's worse than the first.
> 
> ...



That's how my Covid started, just a heavy cold for most of it, then a few days of breathlessness, then a few weeks to get back to normal - probably had an infection after it as MrsF went on anti-biotics for her chest and was better quicker than I was


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## Alex321 (Yesterday at 09:51)

gbb said:


> I developed a head cold 3 days ago, she keeps insisting it might be covid.
> 
> No, it feels every inch like a common cold, bad enough but had worse.


That is what it felt like for me when I caught it in June, and for my wife when she caught it (in hospital) before Christmas.

Both of us fully vaccinated.


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## tom73 (Yesterday at 10:21)

That's one of the many problems covid brings, it presents in such wide range of ways. That it's easy to class it as something else only later showing it's true colours.


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## shep (Yesterday at 14:27)

tom73 said:


> That's one of the many problems covid brings, it presents in such wide range of ways. That it's easy to class it as something else only later showing it's true colours.



This is where the question of testing lies in my opinion, if for example I've got what I perceive to be a run of the mill cold I just carry on about my daily life as it's no big deal.

If however I was the type of person that gets the test kit out at every sign of a sniffle and it is in fact Covid what really changes?

I believe the rules, laws, guidance or whatever say I can still go to work or shopping etc so what's the point?


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## vickster (Yesterday at 14:40)

shep said:


> This is where the question of testing lies in my opinion, if for example I've got what I perceive to be a run of the mill cold I just carry on about my daily life as it's no big deal.
> 
> If however I was the type of person that gets the test kit out at every sign of a sniffle and it is in fact Covid what really changes?
> 
> I believe the rules, laws, guidance or whatever say I can still go to work or shopping etc so what's the point?



It provides information so you can make a decision. If I were to test positive based on having symptoms, I would not visit my elderly parents (or indeed anyone else), I wouldn't go to the office and would wfh (if too unwell to work as I was with Covid in Oct 21, I would take time off sick, now I'd be paid, when freelancing not), I wouldn't go out unless I really needed to. Same as if I were to have a heavy cold, flu, a dose of noro or whatever else contagious.

I've got knee surgery on Monday, I need to do an LFT on Saturday and at the crack of dawn on Monday before going to the hospital - if I test positive, my surgery will be postponed. Positive test would still have an impact on my actions and activities


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## Dogtrousers (Yesterday at 15:10)

vickster said:


> I've got knee surgery on Monday,



Off topic: Best wishes, hope it goes well


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## Phaeton (Yesterday at 16:51)

vickster said:


> I've got knee surgery on Monday, I need to do an LFT on Saturday and at the crack of dawn on Monday before going to the hospital - if I test positive, my surgery will be postponed. Positive test would still have an impact on my actions and activities


Hope all goes well for you.

We seem to have a strange variant, probably nothing to do with Covid itself, but it's a flu/cold that can quickly develop into Bronchitis lots of coughing, phlegm, etc. but it seems to affect those who have had Covid worse than those who haven't from our very very small unscientific group of friends.


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## shep (Yesterday at 18:25)

vickster said:


> It provides information so you can make a decision. If I were to test positive based on having symptoms, I would not visit my elderly parents (or indeed anyone else), I wouldn't go to the office and would wfh (if too unwell to work as I was with Covid in Oct 21, I would take time off sick, now I'd be paid, when freelancing not), I wouldn't go out unless I really needed to. Same as if I were to have a heavy cold, flu, a dose of noro or whatever else contagious.
> 
> I've got knee surgery on Monday, I need to do an LFT on Saturday and at the crack of dawn on Monday before going to the hospital - if I test positive, my surgery will be postponed. Positive test would still have an impact on my actions and activities



I understand some of this but how long will it be before it is no different to a cold, people have already said they've felt worse with a simple cold, did you do all those things before Covid came along if feeling a bit under the weather?

I had knee surgery in July which I needed a test before going in and that's the only test I've ever done as I've no reason to.

We don't work from home in my job so that's not an option and as far as I'm aware as long as you feel well enough you go in, if not you take sick in the normal way.


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## vickster (Yesterday at 18:28)

shep said:


> I understand some of this but how long will it be before it is no different to a cold, people have already said they've felt worse with a simple cold, did you do all those things before Covid came along if feeling a bit under the weather?
> 
> I had knee surgery in July which I needed a test before going in and that's the only test I've ever done as I've no reason to.
> 
> We don't work from home in my job so that's not an option and as far as I'm aware as long as you feel well enough you go in, if not you take sick in the normal way.



Not all employers / jobs are the same. While Covid, flu etc could cause serious harm to my parents and others, I would stay away if I’m ill. I wouldn‘t choose to expose family, friends, colleagues to an illness, including a cold


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## Pat "5mph" (Yesterday at 19:51)

vickster said:


> Not all employers / jobs are the same. While Covid, flu etc could cause serious harm to my parents and others, I would stay away if I’m ill. I wouldn‘t choose to expose family, friends, colleagues to an illness, including a cold


I totally agree with that.
Nevertheless, in the past, when I was in jobs that do not pay for time off sick, I did go to work coughing and sneezing, even with a slight temperature.
Management expected nothing less from their staff.


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## Ajax Bay (Yesterday at 20:26)

When does 'got a bit of a cold' become 'ill'?
I entirely understand the wish to mitigate the risk of passing stuff on, but - and this is emphatically NOT a pot at chatters - if everyone didn't go into work if they 'had a bit of a cold' then the already poor productivity of this country will take a knock.
And services like health care, social care, public transport would struggle to provide the level of service the general public 'wants' as they would be down 15+% of their workforce all winter, as people stayed away with a bit of a cold that might be infectious (most colds are).
We have to find a modus vivendi which has the broad if not support then acquiescence of the general public.


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## gbb (Yesterday at 20:37)

Alex321 said:


> That is what it felt like for me when I caught it in June, and for my wife when she caught it (in hospital) before Christmas.
> 
> Both of us fully vaccinated.



Tbf, my wife felt poorly for several days prior to testing positive, she had two negatives first so its important not to just take one test and assume all is well.
I've tested again tonight, negative. Raspy throught, headache, again, what you'd normally think were typical cold symptoms. Will continue testing for a few more days.

Wife felt really poorly this afternoon, concerning so. A bit brighter now but she did say, she'd never felt so unwell as earlier today.


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## gbb (Yesterday at 20:43)

Ajax Bay said:


> When does 'got a bit of a cold' become 'ill'?
> I entirely understand the wish to mitigate the risk of passing stuff on, but - and this is emphatically NOT a pot at chatters - if everyone didn't go into work if they 'had a bit of a cold' then the already poor productivity of this country will take a knock.
> And services like health care, social care, public transport would struggle to provide the level of service the general public 'wants' as they would be down 15+% of their workforce all winter, as people stayed away with a bit of a cold that might be infectious (most colds are).
> We have to find a modus vivendi which has the broad if not support then acquiescence of the general public.



I've gone to work with howlers of a cold, i just isolate, distance myself from colleagues as much as possible and warn them. We all caught it off someone, someone's going to inevitably catch it off us. Its just part of life as far as I'm concerned. Look after yourself as much as possible, particually with diet to mitigate its effects, its about all you can do.

But then, I have quite a strong " constitution' can carry illness and still function. Lots of people can't, won't or don't. Some are just plain looking for an excuse to stay off work


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## gbb (Yesterday at 20:53)

shep said:


> This is where the question of testing lies in my opinion, if for example I've got what I perceive to be a run of the mill cold I just carry on about my daily life as it's no big deal.
> 
> If however I was the type of person that gets the test kit out at every sign of a sniffle and it is in fact Covid what really changes?
> 
> I believe the rules, laws, guidance or whatever say I can still go to work or shopping etc so what's the point?



I
Certainly my employer states you can go to work with covid but must take precautions while there, mask wearing, distancing yourself etc etc. Of course, they accept if its making you feel too unwell, you stay at home, as they should.
Testing ? In many cases now it seems pointless, the world is carrying on now despite covid BUT, most of us have someone, usually in the family, that is vulnerable. If I caught covid and it wasn't too bad, I'd just think of it almost like a cold ( easy to say, I've not had covid yet, I may think differently if I actually did catch it ). I have a cold ATM but I'm testing out of respect to family and colleagues, they deserve to know if they're being potentially exposed.


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