# Giro d'Italia 2013, 4th-26th May - [Spoilers]



## thom (24 Apr 2013)

A preview :


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)

I was wondering who was going to set this thread up - pointless comment I know, just sticking my flag in for updates  .


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

If thom hadn't done it, I would have - just because Giro talk has started creeping into other threads. The sense of anticipation is palpable.


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## raindog (24 Apr 2013)

Just when you're wondering how to survive without a couple of northern classics every week, up pops a three week GT.
Isn't it great?


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## Crackle (24 Apr 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I was wondering who was going to set this thread up - pointless comment I know, just sticking my flag in for updates  .


You know you can just click, watch thread


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)

I do but really I wanted to show interest, as the other thread was asking for this one to kick off properly.


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

So, who do we fancy? Are there any other genuine contenders outside of Wiggo, Nibali and Hesjedal? I'd like to count Rodriguez as a hopeful, and he is in good form, but I fear he's destined to be the bridesmaid again. Scarponi and Gesink likewise. And Pozzovivo too? I'd kind of like to see Valverde do reasonably well, just because every panto needs a villain. As long as he doesn't win.


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## raindog (24 Apr 2013)

Are Talansky and Tejay VG riding?


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

http://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/Cycling-c110000020
I know it's a 3 week race and anything can happen but barring mechnicals and injuries it's really difficult to see past the first three in the betting.


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

Cross posted with Smutch but pretty much the same conclusion!


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## thom (24 Apr 2013)

Aye, I think Nibali, Wiggins, Hesjedal in that order, with a couple others in between somewhere hopefully to liven it up.


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)

Line-up confirmed at Sky: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8668798,00.html


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## Buddfox (24 Apr 2013)

Sky team:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8668798,00.html

Apologies if I missed it, but I don't think this had previously been announced. It's fair to say that's a pretty strong line up. Obv Porte is being saved for the Tour, and Puccio is wet behind the ears, so it's not their strongest possible squad. But Wiggo will have quite some support in the mountains.


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)

Snap!


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> Are Talansky and Tejay VG riding?


 
I forgot about them. Presumably Talansky will be riding for Hesjedal - but if things don't work out for Hesjedal, he and Martin are pretty good backup options.

And Tejay will probably be riding for Evans as nominal team leader, won't he? At least until the first mountain stage when Evans inevitably blows up...


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

They're not in the betting so I assume they are not expected to be riding.


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Obv Porte is being saved for the Tour, and Puccio is wet behind the ears, so it's not their strongest possible squad. But Wiggo will have quite some support in the mountains.


 
Hell yeah! Slightly surprised Lopez isn't there but maybe he's being saved for the Tour as well.


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

I'm guessing Evans will ride himself into the ground at the Giro and quote tiredness as a graceful way of becoming Teejay's wing man in the TdF


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> They're not in the betting so I assume they are not expected to be riding.


 
Valverde isn't on that list either, but I thought he was aiming for the Giro. Am I mistaken?

There are a few other names on that list - Sami Sanchez, John Gadret - who I imagine will do well without much risk of troubling the podium.

28/1 seems remarkably ungenerous odds for Basso. And only 33/1 for Pellizotti? Bizarre. Do they know something I don't?


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

I'm pretty sure that ValvPiti fancies his chances for the TdF this year.
Bookies odds are always weird but maybe they're factoring in a lunatic Italian sniper taking out all the favourites which is the only way Basso or Pelizzotti stand a chance.


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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

Apparently, Talansky is aiming to win Romandie, so that probably rules him out of the Giro. Maybe Garmin will make him their main man for the Tour. That would be cool.


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## thom (24 Apr 2013)

The official Giro pack of the race route etc. A 368 page .pdf file.

"The toughest race in the world most beautiful place: a glorious tradition and a certainty. This being the introduction, the 2013 edition of the Giro d’Italia will be one of the most fascinating in recent years. This 96th edition of the Corsa Rosa (Pink Race) has all the necessary ingredients to succeed: top class athletes who will treat us to unforgettable challenges, suggestive inspirations to the country’s history and geography, as well as a fascinating course which will take us through the places where cycling has written pages into history.

This year, as many as 3,400 kilometres will take the caravan from one end to the other of Italy; with a balanced mix of stages tailor made for sprinters, attackers and climbers; time trialists will also have their great chance. The race will eventually crown an all-round champion, whose legs are on fire cold but whose mind is as cold as ice. 

Yet, the most impressive feature of this year’s edition is its geographical reach, which reasserts the powerful meaning of this race in our cultural heritage, in the life and passion of a country. As Candido Cannavò – the “patron” of the Gazzetta – used to say, the Giro is a thin, pink thread bringing Italy together through thick and thin. The present-day situation required us to design a meaningful race course (also for our collective imagination), which could embrace and unify all of us on a sports and political level, in the highest and rarest sense of the word.

Well, the start from Campania and the long route across southern Italy (Mezzogiorno), through Calabria, Basilicata, Apulia, and then up to Abruzzo and Pescara, reaching the Ionian, Tyrrhenian and Adriatic seas has been a very meaningful choice, as well as dedicating a stage to the 50th anniversary of the disaster of the Vajont Dam. On that occasion our country came together, grieving over the 2,000 victims of Longarone and its valley, and for the first time it understood how important it is to respect the territory and its people, as well as truth and justice. Another very suggestive stage is the one from Busseto to Cherasco, celebrating the bicentenary of the birth of Giuseppe Verdi, the genius who combined music and people in a moment of redemption for our country. Cycling could not pay a more appropriate homage, now that we are called to a rebirth (a new Risorgimento) on a political, economic and civil level.

Our starting point is Naples, a beloved city, engaged in a relentless struggle for legality through sports as well. When the Giro last undertook the traditional Neapolitan circuit, back in 1996, large numbers of fans were celebrating in such a lively and festive way that the final sprint along via Caracciolo, among the crowd standing on both sides, is still one of the most beautiful snapshots in the Giro’s photo album. This year we are willing to relive that successful experience in terms of image, and perhaps to do even better with the team time trial in Ischia and the spectacular ride across the Sorrento Peninsula.

Nordic and high-altitude landscapes will also enrich this year’s edition of the Giro. A challenge climbing the summits which made the history of cycling, which will eventually determine the outcome of the race. On Sunday, May 19 the Giro will cross the French border, entering the Tour’s territory, to climb the legendary, 18-km long Col du Galibier, where many of the heroes of cycling were crowned, from Coppi to Bartali, from Charly Gaul to Merckx and Pantani (had we failed to mention him, it would have been very rude). On Saturday, May 25 the bunch will have to face an equally legendary and – definitely – tougher stage in Italy: the Tre Cime di Lavaredo (three peaks of Lavaredo).

Perhaps only after the final, extreme challenge of climbing the Cadore Dolomites will we be able to realize who will wear the Maglia Rosa the following day, on the final parade in Brescia. Of course, we at the “Gazza” would always like our race to end in Milan, where it was born over a hundred years ago, perhaps right under our Editorial Office windows, but since our ultimate goal is to share the joy of finishing a race and winning, Brescia fully deserves this honor because of its sports and civil heritage. This will be its first time. The Lioness of Italy will host the final stage of a bravely-fought Giro. What more could we ask for?"


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## rich p (24 Apr 2013)

My forward planning has let me down again and I realise I will miss the last week of this. Cobblers.


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Apr 2013)

Sky´s team is uncompromisingly a team of powerful climbers. No sprinter, in fact no real specialists of any other type. And Henao and Uran, and possibly Siutsou could be team leaders in any other setup. I´d be surprised if Nibali will get anything like as good support as this.


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## dragon72 (24 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sky´s team is uncompromisingly a team of powerful climbers. No sprinter, in fact no real specialists of any other type. And Henao and Uran, and possibly Siutsou could be team leaders in any other setup. I´d be surprised if Nibali will get anything like as good support as this.


Agreed. Except for the "no real specialists" bit. For me, Wiggins is a time trial demon (who can also climb a bit).
Sky have figured out the blindingly obvious. If your aim is to win GC in the Grand Tours, who needs sprinters? What you do need is a bunch of great climbers to support a time trial demon (who can also climb a bit). GC is never decided on flat stages.


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## Buddfox (24 Apr 2013)

Seeing that team line-up made me realise that it was in the end quite a smart piece of business getting rid of Cav, since it frees up two slots for the guys which will get Wiggo (or Froome in July) up the big climbs.


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## Peteaud (24 Apr 2013)

Good promo


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmhd0jjZwWM


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## kedab (24 Apr 2013)

lovely stuff


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## tigger (24 Apr 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Good promo
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmhd0jjZwWM




Wow! As if I wasn't already looking forward to it. The hairs on the back of my neck are standing up!


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)




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## smutchin (24 Apr 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sky´s team is uncompromisingly a team of powerful climbers. No sprinter, in fact no real specialists of any other type. And Henao and Uran, and possibly Siutsou could be team leaders in any other setup. I´d be surprised if Nibali will get anything like as good support as this.


 
Nice bit of psychology to announce the team so early too - let it really get under the skin of their rivals.

Do we have any idea who Nibali will be taking with him? I'm guessing Tiralongo, Fuglsang, Kessiakoff and Agnoli will be his main mountain lieutenants. Maybe Seeldraeyers too? What about Brajkovic? Or is he being saved for the TdF? But even without Brajkovic, that's a pretty capable climbing team he's got there. Astana clearly don't have the strength in depth that Sky have though.

Edit: Aru did well at Trentino. Maybe they'll give him a run out too. Could be interesting - seems quite a prospect.


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## Radchenister (24 Apr 2013)

IMO - like any job, just a few good men can get it done well; send a committee or embark on a training exercise and you're wasting time and energy.


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## lukesdad (25 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> I'm guessing Evans will ride himself into the ground at the Giro and quote tiredness as a graceful way of becoming Teejay's wing man in the TdF


 I think we'll see Evans on the podium come July.


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## lukesdad (25 Apr 2013)

If the betting is anything to go by a pretty poor turnout as well.


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## raindog (25 Apr 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Seeing that team line-up made me realise that it was in the end quite a smart piece of business getting rid of Cav.......


I thought Cav got rid of them


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## Hont (25 Apr 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I think we'll see Evans on the podium come July.


Is he doing the Tour of Austria then?


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## The Couch (25 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... 28/1 seems remarkably ungenerous odds for Basso. And only 33/1 for Pellizotti? Bizarre. Do they know something I don't?


 
Maybe a bit stingy on Basso, although having seen him last year (having the best team, but never really showed himself as any threat to the rest), I would also "persuade" people to take a gamble on an aging Basso rather than a young rider.
If I am not mistaken, Pellizotti hasn't really showed much (in multi-day events) in the past year and a half (because of well-known reasons), so I wouldn't put much faith either in his aging bones.


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## rich p (26 Apr 2013)

I read that there are time bonuses (bonifications - Sean Kelly!) available this year even in the mountain top finishes - of which there are five, I think.
20secs, 12, and 8. If Nibali can use his power on the steep finishes, compared to Wiggins steadier style, he could go some way to nullifying Brad's TT advantage.
It's probably why Wiggins has been reportedly training hard at altitude to increase his explosivity on the hills. Either that or send Henao up ahead to try to mop up some of the points.
Certainly whetting the appetite.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Apr 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Agreed. Except for the "no real specialists" bit. For me, Wiggins is a time trial demon (who can also climb a bit).


 
Yeah, I was taking Wiggins as a given - just talking about his support team.


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## smutchin (26 Apr 2013)

Wiggins is a proper all-rounder. To say he "can climb a bit" is doing him an injustice. He may not be able to attack explosively on a climb like Froome or Contador etc but there's more than one way to skin a hors-cat.


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## rich p (26 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wiggins is a proper all-rounder. To say he "can climb a bit" is doing him an injustice. He may not be able to attack explosively on a climb like Froome or Contador etc but there's more than one way to skin a *hors-cat*.


 Very good!


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## Crackle (26 Apr 2013)

rich p said:


> I read that there are time bonuses (bonifications - Sean Kelly!) available this year even in the mountain top finishes - of which there are five, I think.
> 20secs, 12, and 8. If Nibali can use his power on the steep finishes, compared to Wiggins steadier style, he could go some way to nullifying Brad's TT advantage.
> It's probably why Wiggins has been reportedly training hard at altitude to increase his explosivity on the hills. Either that or send Henao up ahead to try to mop up some of the points.
> Certainly whetting the appetite.


 
Wasn't there last year? I don't think it was as much as 20secs and I don't think it was all finishes or maybe I'm thinking of the Vuelta.


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## rich p (26 Apr 2013)

Crackle said:


> Wasn't there last year? I don't think it was as much as 20secs and I don't think it was all finishes or maybe I'm thinking of the Vuelta.


You may well be right but 20 seconds seems a lot.


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## Radchenister (26 Apr 2013)

The lie of the land - I've added some big red numbers to the map to make it easier to work out which stage is which, this map can then be more easily read in conjunction with elevation chart below it (made from 3 images off the official Giro site):


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## Radchenister (26 Apr 2013)

Edit: labelling now corrected.


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## Hont (26 Apr 2013)

Quiet morning was it?


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## Radchenister (26 Apr 2013)

That's ok Hont, you're welcome (only takes a sec' in Photoshop) - probably wasted as much time as it took you to think up that post  .


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## thom (29 Apr 2013)

Tim Kerrison is interviewed about preparing Wiggins for the Giro in the Guardian today.


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## smutchin (29 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> Tim Kerrison is interviewed about *preparing* Wiggins for the Giro in the Guardian today.


Slightly unfortunate choice of words there.


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## Hont (29 Apr 2013)

Nah, lets reclaim it for it's non-euphemistic use.


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## thom (29 Apr 2013)

Ffs Brad, do your talking on the bike, like Chris does, not like this.


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## Radchenister (29 Apr 2013)

thom said:


> Ffs Brad, do your talking on the bike, like Chris does, not like this.


 
Something similar just about to be aired on BBC news - might be the same, soon to find out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_news24/watchlive

Edit: just a few seconds of the one above!


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## smutchin (29 Apr 2013)

Typical stupid BBC rubbish, total non-story. The headline isn't supported by any of the direct quotes.


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## Buddfox (29 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Typical stupid BBC rubbish, total non-story. The headline isn't supported by any of the direct quotes.


 
Agreed - he's handled it quite well, it's exactly what you would expect him to say. He's not going to be a standard domestique in the Tour, and even Froome knows that.


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## smutchin (29 Apr 2013)

User said:


> I've had a feeling for a while that if Wiggins rides the tour, he might try and do a Roche 87 (giro)


Hmmm... I remember Wiggo's valiant (but utimately futile) solo breakaway in the 2007 Tour, shortly before Cofidis were chucked out. Would love to see him attempting something similar again - though maybe not at Froome's expense.


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## Chris Norton (29 Apr 2013)

Team Sky seem to have scored a tactical winner in giving themselves massive "plan b's" in the grand tours. I was thinking Henao was a shoe in for the Giro in support of Wiggins in January. In the Tour if Froome don't get it then Wiggo will step in although I do think that Alberto is the one to really watch. The tour squad looks slightly stronger with Richie Porte who was a revelation for me last year and seems to be in good nick this. I do however think he will be off this year looking for team leadership himself unless sky decide on a grand tour triple leadership where 3 men get to go after one each in a year.

Is this on ITV so I can record it during the day. So looking forward to this one.


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## kedab (29 Apr 2013)

'giro-tour double'. that's got to be on the froomedog's mind as they go in. he seems to be a cool, calculating fella but that kind of talk from bradders has got to irritate him. my hope is that they both go in on tip-top form and one of them, doesn't matter which one, decides to ditch the team rules, ignore their power meters and radios and just properly go nuts for it and see what happens


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## Peteaud (29 Apr 2013)

Sky are a master of mind games, its started already.

Love it.


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## Strathlubnaig (29 Apr 2013)

Interesting that BBC story. So last weeks Froome says as far as he is aware he is the TdF leader, they ride for him. This week Wiggins is shooting for a Giro-TdF double. There may be mind games, but it aint Sky who's doing it.


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## kedab (29 Apr 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Interesting that BBC story. So last weeks Froome says as far as he is aware he is the TdF leader, they ride for him. This week Wiggins is shooting for a Giro-TdF double. There may be mind games, but it aint Sky who's doing it.


 
that's what i meant - it's verrrrrry interesting that they're coming from two very different angles...perhaps it _is_ part of the team strategy, to get everyone thinking that they've got issues within the team and that they're going to struggle because of it but....i don't think so.


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## tug benson (29 Apr 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Interesting that BBC story. So last weeks Froome says as far as he is aware he is the TdF leader, they ride for him. This week Wiggins is shooting for a Giro-TdF double. There may be mind games, but it aint Sky who's doing it.


 

Not just froome saying that he`ll be leader at the tour

Team Sky coach Tim Kerrison backed up Froome's position, adding that Wiggins's focus will fall on May's Giro d'Italia.
"We go into the race with the rider who we believe has the best chance of delivering as the designated leader," Kerrison said.
"For the moment, we are preparing Bradley to lead the Giro and we are preparing Chris Froome to be the leader at the Tour de France.
"As we get closer to the event, we will have a look again at the form of all our riders and make sure we have the strongest team to win the yellow jersey again."


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## Peteaud (29 Apr 2013)

Froome says one thing, Brad says another, sky have it all planned out and then some imho.

The other teams have to plan to have 2 or more plans.....

Or

Or its in team fighting and squalbling, which to be fair i doubt.


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## Crackle (29 Apr 2013)

I thought this was settled some time ago, as shown by the two different preparations they've both done. This seems unseemly to me, strikes me as Wiggo changing his mind and using his weight to get his way. I'd like to see how he does in the Giro first.


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## thom (29 Apr 2013)

To be fair to Brad (having suggested he might be better off saying nothing), his interview on C4 news was more diplomatic. He didn't sound like a egocentric diva, rather a professional bike racer who was doing the rounds of promoting his Giro attempt. He talked about how the Giro would be a tougher task than the Tour last year and that he needed to take on a different challenge to motivate himself after last year. Regarding the tour, he does say he'd like to be able to go for it but he's pretty clear that he'll accept whatever the decision on what is best for the team.

Edit - but I agree with @Crackle - this is unseemly and even if it is the press trying to create a story, SKY would be better off without this conjecture,


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## Strathlubnaig (29 Apr 2013)

L'Equipe is also reporting the same, so not just the BBC interpretation.


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## tigger (29 Apr 2013)

This does seem exaggerated by the press. If you listen to Brad's interviews he is more reasoned. That said, I can't help but think he is short of his target form for the Giro (too much booze and pop star fame post Olympics) and perhaps he feels he may ride into better shape by July. So he wants a second option if the numbers read well? He did look surprisingly out of shape at Oman and quite chubby in the start of season team photos.


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## tigger (29 Apr 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> L'Equipe is also reporting the same, so not just the BBC interpretation.



They probably read the BBC one!


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## Strathlubnaig (29 Apr 2013)

tigger said:


> They probably read the BBC one!


somehow I do not think the premier French sports newspaper will rely on the BBC and it's very much part time interest in things cycling for it's stories.


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## Chris Norton (29 Apr 2013)

There was me thinking wiggo looked pretty good in the trentino until the mechanical. Until the racing starts we don't know.


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## tigger (29 Apr 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> There was me thinking wiggo looked pretty good in the trentino until the mechanical. Until the racing starts we don't know.



I think he looked good too. Indeed! It's all if buts and maybes!


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## kedab (29 Apr 2013)

tigger said:


> I think he looked good too. Indeed! It's all if buts and maybes!


and all adds to the mystery and intrigue


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## Slaav (29 Apr 2013)

My take on this is that there are tensions in the team between Brad and Froome.

To me, it seems obvious. But that is (to be fair) based on the TdF and the Olympics stuff.... and their various interviews. It appears to me that they are both piling pressure on the SKY management to get the nod.

I also think that DB is OK with this 

Imagine a brilliant team where if these two balls up, you have to sell out and go for one of the others - Porte for example 

Bottom line is that competition simply raises standards. If I were to liken it to rugby and the Lions' No 10, then surely having two massive characters competing for the top birth is a good thing? If they both buy in to the team ethic then the TEAM will win - regardless of who starts; if someone loses form and has bought in to the team ethic, then they will 100% support the team for the win etc etc

Of course - the issue is TEAM is bigger than the individual??? and there was a doubt about that in the TdF 2012


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## smutchin (29 Apr 2013)

Look, Brad Wiggins is one of the very best bike racers in the world at the moment. Of course he thinks he can win everything and that he should be given that opportunity. 

Chris Froome is also one of the best bike riders in the world at the moment, and knows he could have won the Tour last year, and the Vuelta in 2011, if a few things had been different.

You don't get to be that successful if you don't have the drive and ambition to win everything. Of course there are going to be tensions when you have two such talents on the same team. 

But you also don't get to be that successful if you let your ego override your professionalism. And both Wiggins and Froome are intelligent enough to know that.

If Wiggo wants to go against team orders and try to win the Tour, he'll probably end up like Tommy Voeckler - loved by the housewives for his "panache" but ultimately not as successful as he could have been.


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## Radchenister (30 Apr 2013)

I would have thought the 'team orders' would still be fluid regarding the TdeF - any strategist worth their salt shouldn't write off the possibilities yet; all likely subject to how future events pan out here (Gd'I) and in the run up to it (TdeF) - might be we're forward projecting more than they are  ?

Although my inkling is that Sir Wiggo might be bigging it up a bit before the Giro, psyching out the opposition prize fighter style.


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## Keith Oates (30 Apr 2013)

We will see next week once the Giro is underway and then actions will speak louder than words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Apr 2013)

Wiggins just on BBC morning news (pre recording) stating that Team Sky will not be choosing the front man for the TDF yet and that the best attack will be a two pronged attack. 
Froome said on Romandie that he is 100% the leader. FIREWORKS!!


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## smutchin (30 Apr 2013)

IotCB referred to the 1987 Giro earlier. Looks to me as if the 1986 Tour might be the more apposite reference point.

Also, we need to be wary of talking about the Tour as if it's going to be a two horse race between Wiggo and Froome (again). I suspect Contador might have something to say about that. And maybe Valverde too. And possibly even Talansky and Tejay...

Anyway, back to the Giro...


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## jdtate101 (30 Apr 2013)

Hmm, I suspect this is Wiggo bigging himself up as he's not got the form or the wins under his belt this year. Compare it to last yr when he practically won everything he started, this year is looking really barren. He may be talking a good fight, but I suspect his lack of form will be dramatically exposed in the mountains. If that is the case then he really couldn't argue against Froome leading the TdF. Froome's prep has been spot on this year and he's proved he capable of taking the fight to his rivals when it gets tough.

On purely a visual aspect I'd like to see Froome lead the TdF Sky team as I think it would make for a more lively and interesting race, whilst last yrs TdF was good, it certainly wasn't as 'dramatic' as it could have been (many reasons for this, too many to go into on this post).

Anyway I've got the sky+ all set to go....bring on the italian!!!!!!


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## Slaav (30 Apr 2013)

Having just watched the snippets of Brad on BBC Breakfast, I can see where som eo fthe headlines are coming from.

As always though, what he actually said is nowhere near as controversial!

He said something along the lines of : 'a two pronged attack would be ideal - much the same as last year where we came 1st and 2nd and the racing will sort it out'.

I took it to mean that they should go in with potentially 1st and 2nd place riders racing through the tour and see who is best placed to take control/leadership depending on form etc.

Froome 100% thinks he is in charge - that is clear and obvious! Bradders is not quite prepared to give up on it just yet as stated by someone immediately above. I don't think he is being unreasonable - if he wins the Giro (with its hills) and feels in the best form of his life, why on Earth would he not want to go for the win???? My guess is that professionalism will win through though and DB will be the master puppeteer 

Maybe it is a bit like having two World Champions in the same F1 team - make sure the Championship (Constructor's) is won and then see how the season pans out before you start looking at team orders?


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## raindog (30 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> He may be talking a good fight, but I suspect his lack of form will be dramatically exposed in the mountains.


Lack of form? Apparently he's fitter and stronger, and climbing better than ever.


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## Radchenister (30 Apr 2013)

All the fun of the fair ... gonna be a slow few days, thread will be huge with speculation by then  .


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## smutchin (30 Apr 2013)

Slaav said:


> Having just watched the snippets of Brad on BBC Breakfast, I can see where som eo fthe headlines are coming from.


It's coming from journalists desperate to whip up a story.



> Bradders is not quite prepared to give up on it just yet as stated by someone immediately above. I don't think he is being unreasonable - if he wins the Giro (with its hills) and feels in the best form of his life, why on Earth would he not want to go for the win????


Exactly. To understand where he's coming from, you have to think like a professional sportsman. Not just any professional sportsman, but a world-class sportsman at the very top of his game. The current TdF champion no less. If he didn't want to win everything available to him, that would be something to worry about. You don't hear Alex Ferguson saying, Oh, we've won enough league titles now, it's time to let someone else have a go.


----------



## smutchin (30 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Hmm, I suspect this is Wiggo bigging himself up as he's not got the form or the wins under his belt this year.


No form, you say?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP0wDTwbYP8


----------



## smutchin (30 Apr 2013)

The team line-ups, as they are announced...
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/538141/giro-d-italia-2013-start-list-tracker.html


----------



## beastie (30 Apr 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Hmm, I suspect this is Wiggo bigging himself up as he's not got the form or the wins under his belt this year. Compare it to last yr when he practically won everything he started, this year is looking really barren. He may be talking a good fight, but I suspect his lack of form will be dramatically exposed in the mountains. If that is the case then he really couldn't argue against Froome leading the TdF. Froome's prep has been spot on this year and he's proved he capable of taking the fight to his rivals when it gets tough.
> 
> On purely a visual aspect I'd like to see Froome lead the TdF Sky team as I think it would make for a more lively and interesting race, whilst last yrs TdF was good, it certainly wasn't as 'dramatic' as it could have been (many reasons for this, too many to go into on this post).
> 
> Anyway I've got the sky+ all set to go....bring on the italian!!!!!!


Wiggins form ain't that bad, he has also ridden stage races without and individual TT. It's concievable he will put 1 1/2mins into the GC competition on the flat TT, and maybe 30 secs on the uphill. The question is will he lose 2 mins on the mountain stages, including time bonuses? That is also possible, perhaps likely. 
Nibali looks a stronger climber than last year and RH looked in strong form at LBL. I think it could be a close 3 horse race. 
Prediction 

Nibali
Wiggins
Heysjdal


----------



## smutchin (30 Apr 2013)

Looking forward to Colombia-Coldeportes making their Grand Tour debut, so I'll be giving them my support as plucky underdogs. I expect their lack of experience at this level will work against them but who knows...


----------



## kedab (30 Apr 2013)

smutchin said:


> Looking forward to Colombia-Coldeportes making their Grand Tour debut, so I'll be giving them my support as plucky underdogs. I expect their lack of experience at this level will work against them but who knows...


but could well make for a bit of daring-do and some simple balls out riding...a bit of panache - we all love it


----------



## Strathlubnaig (30 Apr 2013)

With Froome not riding the Giro then maybe the whole Sky-Wiggins-Froome thing needs a separate thread.
I am just looking forward to the girlfriends kicking off on Twitter about it.


----------



## raindog (30 Apr 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I am just looking forward to the girlfriends kicking off on Twitter about it.


I'm not


----------



## Strathlubnaig (30 Apr 2013)

raindog said:


> I'm not


tongue was firmly in cheek. But it is bound to happen.


----------



## Buddfox (30 Apr 2013)

OPQS have named Cav as their team leader with a clear plan to go for every sprint finish they can. They'll need to have upped their game but at least their strategy is clear!


----------



## Twizit (1 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I am just looking forward to the girlfriends kicking off on Twitter about it.


 
Already started from Froome's missus according to the paper this morning...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

Twizit said:


> Already started from Froome's missus according to the paper this morning...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...ver-Bradley-Wiggins-Tour-de-France-claim.html


----------



## raindog (1 May 2013)

groan


----------



## raindog (1 May 2013)

25 years since Hampsten's Giro win and the epic stage on the Gavia
http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/giro08/?id=/riders/2008/interviews/giro_hampsten08


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5wPEymv-oQ


----------



## Strathlubnaig (1 May 2013)

raindog said:


> groan


I think the interesting bit is that the lassie states that it is not some sky pr stunt as some on here thought.


----------



## Radchenister (1 May 2013)

raindog said:


> groan


 
Yep, ludicrous ... so 2 months ahead of the TdeF last year's winner is being written off as a has been and this year's (admittedly better suited) favoured rider is being portrayed as acting like a primadonna; come on, there's a long way to go yet and surely the smart guys at Sky can suss how to get them both out there in good positions?

Perhaps the WAGS should just butt out of muddying the waters in the social media (?) - over sensationalised nonsense, now being blown out of proportion like some sort of playground argument over who owns the football.

Back to the Giro (hopefully) ...


----------



## StuAff (1 May 2013)

It's not terribly complicated. If Brad wins the Giro, or does well, he'll want to try and do the double. If he does badly in the Giro, he'll want to do well in the Tour to compensate. And either way, he's the defending champion. He is not going to France to make up the numbers, he (quite rightly) wants to do himself and the tour justice. Anyone expecting him to just roll over and play super-domestique to his number two is plain silly. He is, to his credit, being honest about this. He's certainly not following Bernie's example from 85/86....
If Froome (and his lady friend) were being truly fair and honest, apart from keeping their counsel, they'd accept that (i) He'd rather win on merit, not just on account of Brad being told to slow down- and no-one else is going to do them any favours anyway, doh! and (ii) It's better for Sky as a whole, Brad, Froome (everyone apart from their chief rivals) that they have a Plan A and another Plan A. If one of them has a season-wrecking injury, they're ready.


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> If Froome (and his lady friend) were being truly fair and honest, apart from keeping their counsel, they'd accept that (i) He'd rather win on merit, not just on account of Brad being told to slow down- and no-one else is going to do them any favours anyway, doh!


Froome might have won both the Vuelta and Tour already on merit had he been afforded the protection Brad had...
Froome has earned his chance to lead at the Tour. Brad decided to focus on the Giro as his own choice. Froome is the future - if SKY don't do the right thing by him, I'm sure there are a few teams willing to do so and to reap the rewards further down the line.


----------



## Radchenister (1 May 2013)

Yep and I might have won it as well if I'd have been born 15 years younger and not lived a life of debauchery  !


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Yep and I might have won it as well if I'd have been born15 years younger and not lived a life of debauchery  !


----------



## thom (1 May 2013)

Reports are that Rujano may be left out of the Giro by Vaconsoleil due to forthcoming implication in the Padua trial of Michele Lamborghini


----------



## Buddfox (1 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> (i) He'd rather win on merit, not just on account of Brad being told to slow down


 
Noting, of course, that's it's arguable that Brad only won the Tour last year for precisely this reason...


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

IMO Wiggins and Froome are not friends. They haven't raced together or trained together this year. The setup has very much been revolved around 2 separate groups consisting of 2 leaders and the only time these two will race together will be the Tour (remains to be seen).
It can't be a publicity stunt as it completely takes the focus off the race and pinpoints personal relationships within the team. Both Froome and Wiggins would hate that. Why shine a spotlight on it? Contador and Nibali would just put their heads down and use their spare time to focus on the race. 
Froome must also know his fiance is tweeting and could easily ask her not to do that - concluding that he agrees with her viewpoint. 

Best i can see is that the only person that is sure Froome is leading the Tour is Froome. Not even Sky have come out to back him. They have had enough time to do so, so maybe they are waiting to see how Brad does at the Giro?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Noting, of course, that's it's arguable that Brad only won the Tour last year for precisely this reason...


Hmmm, Froome came in 3 minutes 21 seconds behind Wiggins.


----------



## raindog (1 May 2013)

Why doesn't Brailsford just read the riot act? He's in charge FFS. He could start by telling Froome to get his GF to stfu about bike racing on twitter. Then he could tell Brad to avoid answering questions on the Tour leadership untill closer to the bloody race. Seems simple to me.
It's getting on me nerves, it is.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

^^^^ That's the only thing that made me think publicity stunt. Brailsford don't suffer no fools!!


----------



## Buddfox (1 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Hmmm, Froome came in 3 minutes 21 seconds behind Wiggins.


 
Though we all know it's not as simple as that... anyway, I am a bit surprised Froome's fiancee felt the need to go public. It's not like anyone involved will give two hoots what she thinks.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (1 May 2013)

@Buddfox - i think people will assume that it's from the horses mouth. It is quite possible that Froome talks to his fiance about these things. Why though she feels the need to stick her oar in is beyond me.


----------



## rich p (1 May 2013)

It might be worth starting another thread on Froome v Wiggins instead of clogging up the Giro one with all this tittle tattle.


----------



## johnr (1 May 2013)

Radio 5 has an analysis of the Giro on now - 2100 1 May


----------



## smutchin (1 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It might be worth starting another thread on Froome v Wiggins instead of clogging up the Giro one with all this tittle tattle.



http://www.cyclechat.net/index.php?threads/Froome-v-Wiggins.129449/


----------



## tigger (1 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It might be worth starting another thread on Froome v Wiggins instead of clogging up the Giro one with all this tittle tattle.



Yes and don't forget Noodley's Tour spoilers thread. It's nearly dropped off the first page!


----------



## kedab (2 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Yep, ludicrous ... so 2 months ahead of the TdeF last year's winner is being written off as a has been and this year's (admittedly better suited) favoured rider is being portrayed as acting like a primadonna; come on, there's a long way to go yet and surely the smart guys at Sky can suss how to get them both out there in good positions?
> 
> Perhaps the WAGS should just butt out of muddying the waters in the social media (?) - over sensationalised nonsense, now being blown out of proportion like some sort of playground argument over who owns the football.
> 
> Back to the Giro (hopefully) ...


it's my ball!


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2013)

This is what happens when we don't have any actual cycling to talk about. Can't wait for Saturday...


----------



## thom (2 May 2013)

Here are some people speculating in Australia for you instead ;-)


----------



## Spartak (2 May 2013)

Considering signing up to Eurosport player for the month ..... bargain price of £4.95


----------



## PpPete (2 May 2013)

Basso out.
Shame, not.


----------



## benb (2 May 2013)

I don't have Sky. Is there any way I can watch highlights at least either on Freeview or though broadband?


----------



## Radchenister (2 May 2013)

Yes - usually a live link available somewhere and catch ups available on YouTube - pm me nearer the time if you're struggling and usually people post the YouTube summary on here when it's available.


----------



## dragon72 (2 May 2013)

Perineal cyst. That's got to smart if you're a cyclist.


----------



## Radchenister (2 May 2013)

DB comments, podcast link at end:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28850_8685124,00.html


----------



## johnr (2 May 2013)

Live commentary on Radio 5 Extra every day at 3pm it seems.


----------



## smutchin (2 May 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Perineal cyst. That's got to smart if you're a cyclist.



Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


From what I've read, he actually _is_ a nice guy unlike _some_ convicted dopers. LA's doping offences were bad enough, but being a really nasty piece of work on top of that certainly made me cross him off my Christmas card list.


----------



## ColinJ (2 May 2013)

Spartak said:


> Considering signing up to Eurosport player for the month ..... bargain price of £4.95


A warning - up until a couple of weeks ago, the Eurosport Player app for phones and tablets worked really well but they killed it with a recent upgrade with a bug in it that they haven't fixed yet!

The version of the Player that runs in their website still works but the picture quality isn't as lovely as the app's was. I hope they fix it soon.


----------



## Spartak (2 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> A warning - up until a couple of weeks ago, the Eurosport Player app for phones and tablets worked really well but they killed it with a recent upgrade with a bug in it that they haven't fixed yet!
> 
> The version of the Player that runs in their website still works but the picture quality isn't as lovely as the app's was. I hope they fix it soon.


 
Will use it on my Netbook only, unless anyone knows of any other websites / TV showing it ?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 May 2013)

Right, so who's going to buy themselves a pair of Giro pink tyres?


----------



## smutchin (3 May 2013)

Not tempted by the tyres but I was overtaken on this morning's commute by a chap on a nice Bianchi, wearing a pink jersey (Rapha, natch) and I couldn't help thinking how good it looked.

I see also that Sky have pinkified their website to get into the Giro spirit.


----------



## Radchenister (3 May 2013)

Tempted but I'm already getting funny looks with the carnival bar tape on the old cart horse  :


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Tempted but I'm already getting funny looks:


Handlebarmy!


----------



## Radchenister (3 May 2013)

Temporary measure, I will admit to a glass or two of Chianti and having some Matt Monro on when I hit the 'buy with one click' button  (  )  !


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zg8PWdVWM 

Not too long left and I apologise to all for the silly thread departure  .


----------



## Radchenister (3 May 2013)

Back to the plot:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwMdlx2QX4


----------



## Shadow (3 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Right, so who's going to buy themselves a pair of Giro pink tyres?


 
Oooh lovely! As I already have a pink bottle cage, I think this would be an attractive option. 

But it might make me (& the bike?) more of a prat than am already!!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (3 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Tempted but I'm already getting funny looks with the carnival bar tape on the old cart horse  :


Really have the desire for a Twister ice lolly after seeing this................
​


----------



## Hont (3 May 2013)




----------



## Biscuit (3 May 2013)

I'm all Euro sported up now. Between that, ITV4 and Radio 5 extra, It's gonna be a great Summer!!


----------



## fossyant (3 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Right, so who's going to buy themselves a pair of Giro pink tyres?


 
That reminds me of the Pro Race Giro Limited edition tyres I once had. Green red and white. They looked ace on my Ribble in the same colours !

Giro Colours now though !!


----------



## ColinJ (3 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> A warning - up until a couple of weeks ago, the Eurosport Player app for phones and tablets worked really well but they killed it with a recent upgrade with a bug in it that they haven't fixed yet!
> 
> The version of the Player that runs in their website still works but the picture quality isn't as lovely as the app's was. I hope they fix it soon.


My tablet automatically downloaded an update for the Player app yesterday. The 'bonus' channels showing snooker and tennis are working, but British Eurosport 1/2 are not!

It is very frustrating because the technology worked before and is working now on channels that I am not interested in.

It must surely be a fairly straightforward problem (what did we change, where did we go wrong?) so why is it taking weeks to sort out, and why is the Eurosport Player support so bloody awful! (So many people are complaining about lack of support that I haven't bothered to try and contact them.)

The Player still works on my laptop so I will be able to get my daily Giro fix, just not in 720p quality.


----------



## RWright (3 May 2013)

I just ordered Directv's (satellite service here in US) sports pack extra so I can watch the Giro, now I just have to set my alarm to make sure I get out of bed on time in the morning. I will cancel this service after 30 days then I have to upgrade my entire package next month to watch the TDF. I probably haven't watched TV much more than 2 or three hours this entire year. After the TDF my Directv contract time runs out and I will get rid of everything and just go back to good old over the air !


----------



## Supersuperleeds (4 May 2013)

If you google firstrowsports, you may find a stream


----------



## RedRider (4 May 2013)

yep, also a decent stream here boys. It's link 3 from http://www.procyclinglive.com/livestream/#


----------



## Rezillo (4 May 2013)

Wish I was back here today - would be bike race and pizzas, a perfect holiday. Just pizza in 2011 (waterfront near start point).





Amalfi coast stage 3 should be stunning.


----------



## Noodley (4 May 2013)

RedRider said:


> yep, also a decent stream here boys.


 
cheers


----------



## phil_hg_uk (4 May 2013)

Watching eurosport free feed here -> http://88.80.15.211/b00ha/20130503/vv5183b730d99a0167291773-572970.html

and lots of other links are here -> http://www.steephill.tv/giro-d-italia/#live


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 May 2013)

Wurf looks very very smooth, doesn't he?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (4 May 2013)

Some of these riders need stabilizers.


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Wurf looks very very smooth, doesn't he?


 
I expect he uses Veet.


----------



## RWright (4 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> If you google firstrowsports, you may find a stream


 
I wanted to watch it without fighting 300 pop ups per hour.


----------



## Spartak (4 May 2013)

RWright said:


> I wanted to watch it without fighting 300 pop ups per hour.


 
I've taken the plunge & spent £4-95 to subscribe to Europsport Player for the month 
Nice to get a consistent feed, without buffering or pop ups !!!


----------



## Peteaud (4 May 2013)

Spartak said:


> I've taken the plunge & spent £4-95 to subscribe to Europsport Player for the month
> Nice to get a consistent feed, without buffering or pop ups !!!


 
I have Eurosport player, for the minimal outlay it is well worth it.


----------



## rich p (4 May 2013)

I wonder if they have a combativity award in the Giro


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

If Cav wins today, that opens up the possibility of two Brits wearing the pink jersey within the same edition of the Giro. Has that ever happened before? (I know both Cav and Wiggo have worn it before, but not in the same Giro, right?)


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

Cannondale doing a good job for Viviani but Cav in perfect position...


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

Perfecto!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 May 2013)

Phew, he left that late!


----------



## Radchenister (4 May 2013)

Worked hard for that one.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (4 May 2013)

yay!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (4 May 2013)

What a missile, best seen from the aerial view!


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

Viviani not chuffed.


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

Good finish by Bouhanni too.


----------



## raindog (4 May 2013)

Tremendous win for Cav - not many can finish like that. On his own at the end again.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (4 May 2013)

Naughty, Cav said fark!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (4 May 2013)

RWright said:


> I wanted to watch it without fighting 300 pop ups per hour.


 
Use firefox and adblockplus, get no pop ups whatsoever then.


----------



## themosquitoking (4 May 2013)

That was brilliant, well done Cav. Swear as much as you like matey.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Use firefox and adblockplus, get no pop ups whatsoever then.


There's also an APB version on Chrome as well.


----------



## Biscuit (4 May 2013)

Excellent! Loving the interview with Cav afterward. LOL.


----------



## Radchenister (4 May 2013)

ABP even  !



deptfordmarmoset said:


> There's also an APB version on Chrome as well.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 May 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Naughty, Cav said f***!


It's funny, I was listening but didn't notice him swearing, it was only the ''Is this live?" and the ''Apologies" bit that drew my attention to it.


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

Caption: "Sorry, mum!"


----------



## Peteaud (4 May 2013)

wow


----------



## neilb1906 (4 May 2013)

Bet Geenedge are miffed....


----------



## RWright (4 May 2013)

I only paid $12.99 for the sports package for the month, I get about 30 sports channels. I already got my money's worth watching the end of the Hull v Cardiff game match and first stage of the Giro.  not to mention this anchor girl on BEIN sports named Terri Leigh.


----------



## rich p (4 May 2013)

Fabulous sprint considering Steegman's difficulty. It must be dispiriting for Matt goss to have a perfect lead-out and not even get on the podium.
Goss and Renshaw might as well sign for OPQS and get some vicarious glory next year


----------



## Radchenister (4 May 2013)




----------



## Pedrosanchezo (4 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Viviani not chuffed.


Viviani most certainly has no toys left in his pram..................


----------



## compo (4 May 2013)

I was watching it then nodded off about 15 minutes from the end and woke up 15 minutes ago! Just watched the last couple of K's on YouTube. Very exciting.

I don't know what it is but I prefer to watch the Giro than the TdF. Wether the Italian TV producers create a more interesting coverage I don't know, I can't think of another reason.


----------



## Noodley (4 May 2013)

well done Cav, and great to see Bouhanni placed in 3rd


----------



## Get In The Van (4 May 2013)

For a second I thought Cav was going to get boxed in as his positioning was awful, but fair play to him, took the long way round and still won, I thought Bouhanni was going to lose his bike from under him as well, some crazy angles on the run into the finish.
Good start to the Giro, roll on tomorrow


----------



## threebikesmcginty (4 May 2013)

compo said:


> I was watching it then nodded off about 15 minutes from the end and woke up 15 minutes ago! Just watched the last couple of K's on YouTube. Very exciting.
> 
> I don't know what it is but I prefer to watch the Giro than the TdF. Wether the Italian TV producers create a more interesting coverage I don't know, I can't think of another reason.



Do you sleep better through the Giro?


----------



## rich p (4 May 2013)

Anyway, bollix to the racing, what did you think of the podium girls?


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (4 May 2013)

Liked Cav's interview when he got frustrated with his ear piece and went 'feck it' before throwing over his shoulder before asking the Eurosport reporter if this was live, and the following apology when informed it was  pure Cav moment


----------



## rich p (4 May 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Liked Cav's interview when he got frustrated with his ear piece and went 'feck it' before throwing over his shoulder before asking the Eurosport reporter if this was live, and the following apology when informed it was  pure Cav moment


I think that's what everyone was referring to on the previous page


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (4 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I think that's what everyone was referring to on the previous page


 
Obviously I'm a slow at typing as well as cycling  im sure all those posts were not there when I started.


----------



## Nearly there (4 May 2013)

Matt Goss must have nightmare's about Cavs back wheel


----------



## smutchin (4 May 2013)

I think it was @nyvelocity who quipped on twitter about having a bet on Goss coming fifth.


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 May 2013)

Half man, half missile. Very impressive!


----------



## Keith Oates (4 May 2013)

I'm happy for Cav to get the pink jersey and let's hope there will be some more before the race finishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chris Norton (4 May 2013)

Team TT tomorrow. Although short I will be surprised if Cav keeps the pink tomorrow night.
Waiting until 10.30 for the highlights.


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

what a finish that was! as has been said, there were some insane runs for that line and cav' did superbly to time it so well. I bet it was a little closer than he'd have liked though! roll on the TTT


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

In case anyone missed it or if, like me, you just want to watch that finish again 


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0y9G72wkq0&feature=player_embedded


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

Do we know who Bouhanni was banging shoulders with?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

raindog said:


> Do we know who Bouhanni was banging shoulders with?


It was all a bit off camera but it sounds like it was Adam Blythe of BMC - http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Bouhanni-trop-dangereux/368318


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

ta for the link dm
sending him home "before it's too late" is probably a bit harsh


----------



## fossyant (5 May 2013)

Well, stage two coverage is a bit pants. Nothing until 10pm on Sky, so will watch via the net.


----------



## Louch (5 May 2013)

It's on Eurosport channel 411 from 2:30


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

fossyant said:


> Well, stage two coverage is a bit pants. Nothing until 10pm on Sky, so will watch via the net.


Eh? It's on Eurosport 2 in 10 minutes.


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

OK I cannae work out the thread with What's on TV, anyone got a link to good live streaming?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Aragonese castello is nice!


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> OK I cannae work out the thread with What's on TV, anyone got a link to good live streaming?


 
Tis ok, I got one


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Tis ok, I got one


 
Nope that is not working....bollox


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

http://sports-livez.com/sopcast/sop-3.php


----------



## Scoosh (5 May 2013)

http://sports-livez.com/channel/ch-6.php


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Neither of those work for me


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Neither of those work for me


 
http://88.80.15.211/b00ha/20130503/vv5183b730d99a0167291773-572970.html

anybloodygood? - that's the url from my link - expand the screen and you'll lose the annoying pop-ups.


----------



## Typhon (5 May 2013)

Alternatively:

http://www.firstrow1.eu/watch/185146/1/watch-giro-d-italia.html


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

kedab said:


> http://88.80.15.211/b00ha/20130503/vv5183b730d99a0167291773-572970.html
> 
> anybloodygood? - that's the url from my link - expand the screen and you'll lose the annoying pop-ups.


 
404 Error - not found, so nobloodygoodatall


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

It may sound a bit drastic noodles but maybe you should consider moving to Melrose or somewhere.


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

FFS what is wrong with my computer!!!??? None of the links work!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

This is what's on the TV calendar:

http://sports-livez.com/channel/ch-6.php
http://sports-livez.com/sopcast/sop-3.php
http://www.myhdfooty.com/stream.php?id=20
http://cricfree.tv/update/euro.php


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> 404 Error - not found, so nobloodygoodatall


 soz noods


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

This is what I use all the time
http://www.procyclinglive.com/livestream/
dead reliable, covers all the racing, and today it's really nice quality


----------



## Typhon (5 May 2013)

Might be something wrong with your flash player? You could try updating it/re-installing or. Or you could just re-start the computer and hope for the best.

Team Sky off now


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> OK I cannae work out the thread with What's on TV, anyone got a link to good live streaming?


What's the problem at your end with the calendar?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Any chance of talking about the race instead of Noodley's shite broadband connection?


----------



## theclaud (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Any chance of talking about the race instead of Noodley's s***e broadband connection?


I've been tuning in just in case there's any more news about his tree...


----------



## fossyant (5 May 2013)

Ah. I get Sky via xbox on my parents account. No eurosport 2.

Watching via cyclingfans link.


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

hey come on, it's important that noodles gets plugged in


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

I've just popped a postcard in the post to update Noodles.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I've just popped a postcard in the post to update Noodles.


It says, TTTs are a load of toss.


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

pate's gone off the back of the sky group already? he can't be very well.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

In fact, as the ad at the start says, " It's a lot of Balocco"


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

hmmm, they sat up for him...innnnnnteresting.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

could've been a mechanical


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Knees on his knees now


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

Knees is also off the back now.


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> could've been a mechanical


stuck on the small ring apparently


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Sky down to 5 which is dodgy


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

theclaud said:


> I've been tuning in just in case there's any more news about his tree...


 
Funny you should mention my tree, I was just outside looking at it and thinking how many leaves were on it now compared to last time I mentioned it on here...


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> What's the problem at your end with the calendar?


 
Me.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

but safe!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

28 secs lead for sky!


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

nice time from Sky - won't do Brad any harm at all that


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Me.


It may be easier to use if you tab over to the weekly or agenda view (top right). I haven't figured out how to get it to open with anything other than the monthly view, which doesn't show everything when there's a few broadcasts.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

User3094 said:


> Who wears pink now then?


Hmmm, is it the first over the line of the Sky team?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

...assuming no-one beats them!


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Forget that^^^ - I'd forgotten about yesterdays bonifications


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Got a live feed that works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Lampre at risk of losing the 5th rider


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

...and Euskatel with 4


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

schoolboy error


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Fuds


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Is Harley, Goss's middle name or double barrelled?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Not bad by lampre in the end


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Goss

Must be to distinguish him from the other Matt Goss, just in case anyone sticks a microphone in his hand and asks him to knock out a few tunes


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Garmin not as good as I had thought they'd be


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

14 seconds ahead of Nibali


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Could be a good day for Bradley, those seconds might be important


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Goss
> 
> Must be to distinguish him from the other Matt Goss, just in case anyone sticks a microphone in his hand and asks him to knock out a few tunes


Another Tasmanian like Richie Porte and a bit of a lookalike to Tasman Ricky Ponting


----------



## Dayvo (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Another Tasmanian like Richie Porte and a bit of a lookalike to Tasman Ricky Ponting


 
Looks more like Alan in 2 1/2 Men.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Dayvo said:


> Looks more like Alan in 2 1/2 Men.


Who????


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Is it my imagination or is Kelly more animated when commentating with his fellow Irishman?


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

i do like david millar - he's an interesting chap. go on garmin sharp


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Hmmm, @Dayvo


----------



## fossyant (5 May 2013)

Sky's time holding well.


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Is it my imagination or is Kelly more animated when commentating with his fellow Irishman?


the more animated he gets, the more difficult he is to understand...listening to him reminds me of listening to my grandad when i was young. he'd be telling me some story about oireland of olde and i'd have to ask my dad for a translation  god rest 'em both


----------



## Dayvo (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Who????


 
He's the one who looks like Richie Porte (back left).


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

Brad's got 14 on Nibs and 25 on Hesjedal, but Sky with pink will be a hassle they could do without.


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Puccio in pink!


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

Pinkio in pooch!


----------



## raindog (5 May 2013)

podium girls - how sexist


----------



## PpPete (5 May 2013)

A good move letting their "local" boy cross the line first ?


----------



## rich p (5 May 2013)

PpPete said:


> A good move letting their "local" boy cross the line first ?


I think it was because he was the leading rider yesterday


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I think it was because he was the leading rider yesterday


i think it's cos his mum's there


----------



## kedab (5 May 2013)

i'm already a big fan of the music around the stages/podiums


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 May 2013)

I was expecting a lot more from Garmin today. Movistar were as impressive as they've been all season. Clever by Sky to take the pink but not for Wiggins - although apparently it had been intended for Cataldo - finishing place on stage 1 meant Puccio got it instead. At least it was an Italian...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (5 May 2013)

PpPete said:


> A good move letting their "local" boy cross the line first ?


he didn't


----------



## PpPete (5 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> he didn't


My bad. I "assumed" without having watched it*, that his pink was cos he was first across the line today (of the Sky team) rather than because of his placing in Stage 1.

* I am in furrin parts and my ES Player subscription don't work here cos of "geographic restrictions" (even apart from timezones making it inconvenient) so anyone who posts links to significant chunks of youtube footage that I can watch when convenient has my undying gratitude.


----------



## Noodley (5 May 2013)

Here's 12 mins of the TTT highlights - about all you need for highlights of a TTT


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lGZQz8Rsyo


----------



## 400bhp (5 May 2013)

Just watched the highlights on Sky rather than Eurosport.

I'll try not to that again.


----------



## dellzeqq (6 May 2013)

14 seconds. That's not a lot.


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Astana must be pretty pleased with that.


----------



## triangles (6 May 2013)

It's funny hearing the stage results reported on radio 4. They keep on stressing that for some reason Dave Brailsford wants to stick with the original plan despite (!) another Sky rider wearing the maglia rosa...



PpPete said:


> * I am in furrin parts and my ES Player subscription don't work here cos of "geographic restrictions" (even apart from timezones making it inconvenient) so anyone who posts links to significant chunks of youtube footage that I can watch when convenient has my undying gratitude.


 
I don't know if you are comfortable using torrents but www.cyclingtorrents.nl is fantastic for downloading to watch later. There is generally even an HD version.


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

triangles said:


> It's funny hearing the stage results reported on radio 4. They keep on stressing that for some reason Dave Brailsford wants to stick with the original plan despite (!) another Sky rider wearing the maglia rosa...


er....?


----------



## triangles (6 May 2013)

Let me rephrase: the presenters all seem really surprised that Sky don't want to change their plans to suit Puccio now that he is in pink


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

I also heard on Radio 4 that Sir Alex Ferguson stated the team were still very supportive of Wayne Rooney, despite them sometimes passing the ball to other players.


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

triangles said:


> Let me rephrase: the presenters all seem really surprised that Sky don't want to change their plans to suit Puccio now that he is in pink


ah, right


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

today's profile with lumps near the end - looks promising


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 May 2013)

triangles said:


> It's funny hearing the stage results reported on radio 4. They keep on stressing that for some reason Dave Brailsford wants to stick with the original plan despite (!) another Sky rider wearing the maglia rosa...


I heard that too this morning. It makes you wonder what daft question DB was replying to.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Astana must be pretty pleased with that.


 
They did well. Katusha too. BMC and Garmin, not so much. But no-one ever thought this was going to be decided by anything other than seconds. The important TT is the first individual one. This was really just a parade for the teams who were prepared properly for it.


----------



## Radchenister (6 May 2013)

raindog said:


> podium girls - how sexist


 
Champagne abuse as well, what a waste, tsk  !


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

35km raced so far, and a group of 7 have a lead of about 6 minutes over the peloton - including Jackson Rodriguez. Who happens to be in my fantasy team today.


----------



## Scoosh (6 May 2013)

Is Noodley's broadnarrowband sorted today ?


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

Unlikely, just live ticker feed so far.


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Jarlinson Pantano also in the breakaway. #VAMOSPAIS


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 May 2013)

Good stage maps/streetview flyovers *HERE*


----------



## Speicher (6 May 2013)

Excellent, thank you Deptfordmarmoset.


----------



## Radchenister (6 May 2013)

That is a good site, thanks - bookmarked!


----------



## theloafer (6 May 2013)

watching it live from here  http://www.steephill.tv/


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

oooh those hairpins on the descent look a trifle er...hairy, in the bunch...there's already a few grazed butt cheeks on show.


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

Scoosh said:


> Is Noodley's broadnarrowband sorted today ?


 
Amazingly, I have a live feed


----------



## Crackle (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Amazingly, I have a live feed


 
That's for the hamster is it. They don't perform as well dead.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

i don't think he will but i'd love the fantini rider to win from this solo effort...g'wan my son


----------



## theloafer (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Amazingly, I have a live feed


 whoooooooooooo wtg noodle..


----------



## Peteaud (6 May 2013)

Vini Fantini - the best cycling team name ever (just sounds like a really cool ice cream maker!!), and i even like the kit / bike colours.


----------



## theloafer (6 May 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Vini Fantini - the best cycling team name ever (just sounds like a really cool ice cream maker!!), and i even like the kit / bike colours.


well you could not loose that bike in the dark..


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

theloafer said:


> whoooooooooooo wtg noodle..


 
Buggery bollox, it's crashed


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

I keep getting a message to install the latest Adobe Flash Player, but I have checked and I have it


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 May 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Vini Fantini - the best cycling team name ever (just sounds like a really cool ice cream maker!!), and i even like the kit / bike colours.


I see Bertolini no longer rides a Vini Fantini Cipollini.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

theloafer said:


> well you could not loose that bike in the dark..


that's true - i kind of like it. agree with peteaud, i think it sounds like a slightly dodgy mafioso supported team


----------



## theloafer (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I keep getting a message to install the latest Adobe Flash Player, but I have checked and I have it


 that will be 11.7 700 169


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

yep. 

But it seems to be working again! Bloody thing! Oh no, crashed again! Oh well...stupid bloody race anyway


----------



## theloafer (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> yep.
> 
> But it seems to be working again! Bloody thing! Oh no, crashed again! Oh well...stupid bloody race anyway


noodley try cleaning out your browser mate


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

it is most definitely _*on*_ now


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Go Ryder, go!


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

Hesjedal!! WTF?


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Charge of the Satnav Brigade fizzles out...


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

i think ryder was a little disappointed that nobody wanted to play. it's been a good stage though. fair play to traborre for giving it the complete beans and trying to win it from 50k out -


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

triangles said:


> Let me rephrase: the presenters all seem really surprised that Sky don't want to change their plans to suit Puccio now that he is in pink



Well, yes, it's easy to see why those who don't follow cycling too closely might imagine that on day two of a three week race, you would throw all your strategy out of the window and make a young, inexperienced rider your new team leader. 



Anyway, he's been dropped now so I look forward to the bbc's pearls of wisdom in their analysis of this stage.


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Wonder if Wiggo fancies repeating his Trentino stage 1 heroics...

Nibali probably rates his chances here too, I suspect. 

Game on!


----------



## tigger (6 May 2013)

Hesjedal is off again!


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

Loving Hesjedal's attacking spirit!!


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Ryder's on the storm.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

he's definitely sending a message to the other GC contenders. love it. bradders still well placed but so is big bobby gesink. i do like him.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ryder's on the storm.


 very good


----------



## RWright (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I keep getting a message to install the latest Adobe Flash Player, but I have checked and I have it


 
don't install from that pop up, it is malware


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Great move by Paolini.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 May 2013)

This descent is on the WTF side of technical!


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Fantastic racing.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

great stage - great racing. really enjoyed that


----------



## RWright (6 May 2013)

clouds and rain knocked out my satellite signal as Paolini was about to cross the finish


----------



## Peteaud (6 May 2013)

kedab said:


> great stage - great racing. really enjoyed that


 
Bl00dy fantastic


----------



## Crackle (6 May 2013)

Bonifications make for interesting racing and Evans and Hesjedal claw some time back and Scarponi loses a minute in a crash. Cracking stage.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2013)

That was far more exciting than anyone had the right to expect for an early stage. Fantastic move by Paolini and the contenders are already fighting for every second they can get. Nice to see Evans and Hesjedal reminding everyone that neither can be written off. Scarponi crashed on the descent (like a lot of riders) and had to wait a while for a replacement bike, so he lost a minute or so which will mean he has to attack in the mountains as often as he can. This is already a great Giro!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

brilliant word that, 'bonifications'


----------



## montage (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Loving Hesjedal's attacking spirit!!


 
Great to watch and good on him, but I'm all but ruling him out of a podium finish after that tactical display.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

"Defending champion going on the attack in stage 3 is pure class, period" was one tweet I read today. Gotta love him !


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

montage said:


> Great to watch and good on him, but I'm all but ruling him out of a podium finish after that tactical display.


I thought the same thing. There was no way he was going to escape and win that stage, and he's shown his hand now. If he'd been more discreet, he may well have surprised everyone later in the race on a harder stage. I thought it was all a bit strange really.


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

Well, I hope he continues to do it throughout the 3 weeks. He might get those riding by numbers shook up a bit.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> "Defending champion going on the attack in stage 3 is pure class, period" was one tweet I read today. Gotta love him !


 
I think he has to keep doing things like this. Hesjedal can't just do the steady climbing thing and rely on his TT abilities to keep him ahead because 1. everything he did last year Wiggins can do that little bit better, and 2. Nibali this year is a greater overall threat than Rodriguez last year, and 3. there are a number of other on-form climbers like Betancur. So he has to keep trying the unexpected. I don't think that's tactical naivity at all, I think he's trying to be unpredictable, keep everyone else thinking and worrying that he might have more than they thought.


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Spot on, FM. I'm certainly not ruling him out. He looks shoot-hot.


----------



## raindog (6 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ......he might have more than they thought.


Maybe he has. I hope so - I like the bloke.


----------



## Crackle (6 May 2013)

Hesjedal raced like it was a one day classic. I guess he knows that he can't do the same as last year, which was wait for Rodriguez to lose. Certainly exciting whatever he's thinking.


----------



## smutchin (6 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Hesjedal raced like it was a one day classic.



Not sure I agree. I see what you mean but compare that to LBL - there he really pushed on, and it turned out he was setting it up for a team-mate. Today he seemed more intent on bringing the other contenders out of their shells, forcing them to play a bit, but he wasn't really going for the win. He did grab a few very useful bonus seconds though.

The upshot is that the likes of Scarponi and Betancur are already playing catch-up.


----------



## kedab (6 May 2013)

scarponi did have to wait an awfully long time for a new bicycle...poor chap


----------



## rich p (6 May 2013)

kedab said:


> scarponi did have to wait an awfully long time for a new bicycle...poor chap


Couldn't have happened to nicer patient of Ferrari.
Great racing today by the way. Even if Ryder is being naive it's a lot of fun.


----------



## Crackle (6 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Not sure I agree. I see what you mean but compare that to LBL...


 

Yeah, you're right. It reminded me of LBL and I guess I was trying to summarise how he was racing today with nearly 3 weeks to go i.e. not like he was in a 3 week race.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

Ryder is not naive, I think he just recognizes that he needs to mix it up and spring a few surprises, he knows the strengths of the other GC contenders andthat he needs to try and play against them somehow.


----------



## dragon72 (6 May 2013)

It was Charlie Wegelius (now DS at Garmin) calling the shots on Ryder apparently.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (6 May 2013)

Epic end to that stage. That descent would be a dream to ride. Probably just a little slower...........

Fingers crossed todays stage is a sign of a sh*t hot Giro!!


----------



## Noodley (6 May 2013)

Sandy Casar out of the Giro - scaphoid fracture.


----------



## rich p (6 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Sandy Casar out of the Giro - scaphoid fracture.


I thought he'd retired years ago


----------



## Strathlubnaig (6 May 2013)

Too bad for Casar, he had aimed to complete all 3 GTs this year too.


----------



## The Couch (7 May 2013)

Just noticed that Cobo ended about 14 min behind, while before the start of the Giro Movistar was saying that Cobo and Intxausti would be going for the GC. I guess it is confirmed again never to put your (fantasy) cycling eggs in Juanjo's hands .
Cavendish only lost 8m30...seems a good sign to me that he will be able to perhaps even nick one of the "flat" (but-in-real-life-not-so-flat) stages. Ferrari, Goss and Bouhanni all ended much more behind


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

I think Cobo is now well on the radar of the testing bodies and may not enjoy quite the same privacy to prepare himself...


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Today's stage profile looks like it could lend itself to some attacking near the end


----------



## rich p (7 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think Cobo is now well on the radar of the testing bodies and may not enjoy quite the same privacy to prepare himself...


So the jury's out on the first Brit to win a GT
Wiggins in the 2009 TdF?
Froome in the 2011 Vuelta?
or Boardman, way back when the rest were all juiced?
Just being mischievous BTW.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I thought he'd retired years ago


 
In my mind he 'won' the 2006 Giro - 6th behind 5 dopers.


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> Cavendish only lost 8m30...seems a good sign to me that he will be able to perhaps even nick one of the "flat" (but-in-real-life-not-so-flat) stages. Ferrari, Goss and Bouhanni all ended much more behind


BBC version: Disaster for Cavendish as his Giro hopes end in dismal failure!


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Today's stage profile looks like it could lend itself to some attacking near the end


 
15km final climb! Not an especially steep one but could make things very interesting. Hope to see something from Pozzovivo and Betancur today (they're both in my fantasy team).

Towards the end of yesterday's stage, the commentator mentioned that Hesjedal was isolated, with no team-mates for support, but looking at the results, Danielson was in the lead group that crossed the line 16 seconds behind Paolini, so that's clearly bobbins.


----------



## Radchenister (7 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> BBC version: Disaster for Cavendish as his Giro hopes end in dismal failure!


 
Time to adjust his boost valve ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_controller )  !


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Time to adjust his boost valve ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_controller )  !


Looking at that link, I note that a boost controller affects the mechanical wastegate activator. In my day, a wastegate activator was just a simple kick up the backside.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

rich p said:


> So the jury's out on the first Brit to win a GT
> Wiggins in the 2009 TdF?
> Froome in the 2011 Vuelta?
> or Boardman, way back when the rest were all juiced?
> Just being mischievous BTW.


 
I've noted my suspicions of Froome before. (But I'm still not sure whether it's just because his mannerisms annoy me...)


----------



## Radchenister (7 May 2013)




----------



## The Couch (7 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Looking at that link, I note that a boost controller affects the mechanical wastegate activator. In my day, a wastegate activator was just a simple kick up the backside.


 
Yeah... but with OPQ it's Cav who is giving the kicks up the backsides.


----------



## Rob3rt (7 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I've noted my suspicions of Froome before. (But *I'm still not sure whether it's just because his mannerisms annoy me...*)


 
Almost everything about him annoys me, but then again, he is paid to race bikes, not to seek my approval


----------



## triangles (7 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> BBC version: Disaster for Cavendish as his Giro hopes end in dismal failure!


 
https://twitter.com/ukcyclingexpert is pretty good for this sort of thing


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

2 FDJ riders in today's break - Francis Mourey, better known as a cyclo-crosser; and Johan Le Bon, who I didn't know much about at all until I read this: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Le_Bon Sounds promising!!


----------



## rich p (7 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> 2 FDJ riders in today's break - Francis Mourey, better known as a cyclo-crosser; and Johan Le Bon, who I didn't know much about at all until I read this: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Le_Bon Sounds promising!!


Il á 22 ans, merci


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Looks like the weather has turned nasty. Could make things interesting in the closing stages.


----------



## woohoo (7 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Almost everything about him annoys me, but then again, he is paid to race bikes, not to seek my approval


 
Agreed but Michelle Cound doesn't help him (IMHO).


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Nibbles down!
Edit: just a flat tyre, apparently, not a crash as the commentators were suggesting. And he's back in the peloton now.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Looks like the weather has turned nasty. Could make things interesting in the closing stages.


Do we know whether they've cycled into somewhere where it was already raining or whether it's just started to rain? From the map, it looks like it could be a hilly area that gets a fair amount of rain from off the coast.

EDIT: Oh well, it looks dry again! Though not at the finish....


----------



## dragon72 (7 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Il á 22 ans, merci


What's that accent doing on the "a"?


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

dragon72 said:


> What's that accent doing on the "a"?


 
Sophisticated and continental, innit.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

Go Duque!


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

dragon72 said:


> What's that accent doing on the "a"?


 
It's French à la Brightonish.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

allez Sylvain !!


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Sylvain Georges apparently has previous for winning on a big climb with a solo attack...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sylvain Georges apparently has previous for winning on a big climb with a solo attack...


his lead is disappearing like sand through an egg timer now.


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Siutsou doing what Siutsou does. He's a machine!


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> his lead is disappearing like sand through an egg timer now.


Aye. I guess he wasn't being pursued by the Team Sky Mountain Express that time.


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Chalapud joins Diluca in the attack! Vamos!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

And Sylvain cracks...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

...are we at the 'end game' yet ????


----------



## tigger (7 May 2013)

Whats the Italian for "Its pissing it down"?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

The descent is going to be testing in these conditions...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

They aren't really getting very far ahead here.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 May 2013)

It looks like it only descends about 100m in 7ish km.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

I hope the cheat di Luca slides off his bike in the wet


----------



## tigger (7 May 2013)

Gruppo Compacto... we ll it will be I think!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I hope the cheat di Luca slides off his bike in the wet


Filthy Luca?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

tough one for De Luca, good effort though.


----------



## RWright (7 May 2013)

wow what a finish


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

And... no-one knows who it was who won!


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Pity that everybody didn't punch di Luca in the face as they rode past him!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

It was Battaglin.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And... no-one knows who it was who won!


 
Somebody in green....Battaglin

Who is in my velogames fantasy team - deep knowledge


----------



## Strathlubnaig (7 May 2013)

Ryder in 8th spot, another fine strong effort from him.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 May 2013)

It's always funny watching non-sprinters sprint. It really doesn't look pretty!


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Wiggo gapped!


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wiggo gapped!


 
That'll be cycling dropped from the BBC and the newspapers


----------



## Shadow (7 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Somebody in green....Battaglin
> 
> Who is in my velogames fantasy team - deep knowledge


 
...and mine. Deep knowledge or sheer luck? 

(we'll see in nearly 3 weeks time!)


----------



## Crackle (7 May 2013)

After watching the whole stage, my computer did a Noodley with 6k to go: Darn!


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

*General Classification after Stage 4*
ITA 1 PAOLINI, Luca (KATUSHA) 15:18:51
COL 2 URAN URAN, Rigoberto (SKY PROCYCLING) + 17
ESP 3 INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Benat (MOVISTAR TEAM) + 26
ITA 4 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA PRO TEAM) + 31
CAN 5 HESJEDAL, Ryder (GARMIN SHARP) + 34
GBR 6 WIGGINS, Bradley (SKY PROCYCLING) 
ITA 7 CARUSO, Giampaolo (KATUSHA) + 36
COL 8 HENAO MONTOYA, Sergio Luis (SKY PROCYCLING) + 37

Wiggins did indeed lose time, 17 secs to Ryder, Nibali et al. 

I guess SKY now go with Uran Uran for the Grand tour triple this year ... ?


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Jeannesson, FDJ, 5th on the stage


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

thom said:


> I guess SKY now go with Uran Uran for the Grand tour triple this year ... ?


 
Maybe they can save it 'til the morning after.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Thread-killing comment Dave


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 May 2013)

Mind you, there are now 2 Urans in the top two....


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

And Johan Le Bon is thereabouts, too - a distant relative of Simon.


----------



## woohoo (7 May 2013)

From CyclingNews


> According to Sky's Dave Brailsford, Wiggins was caught behind a crash and his time may be adjusted.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

Dayvo said:


> And Johan Le Bon is thereabouts, too - a distant relative of Simon.


 
I wonder if we could come up with a top ten of cyclists that sound vaguely like popstars during the quieter moments of a stage? Then we could send it in to Eurosport and get a mention on the TV - under your name obviously


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Matteo Bono - for starters.


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Matt(hew) Goss


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

woohoo said:


> From CyclingNews


That would make sense - there is often a provisional timing published before the race stewards review such incidents.

So Froome-dog, if you're reading this, you can say goodbye to your TdF leadership chances right here and now !


----------



## themosquitoking (7 May 2013)

D(e)an Martin?


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Thomas (Desmond) Dekker


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

Dayvo said:


> Maybe they can save it 'til the morning after.


just clicked ;-)


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Karsten (is a bit of a) Kroon(er)


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

(Leonard) Koen de Kort


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

George (Tony) Bennett


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Rory Sutherland (Brothers)


----------



## tigger (7 May 2013)




----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

Sorry! I was bored and had too much time on my hands.

But I had to pick up the gauntlet that Noodley threw down.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)




----------



## VamP (7 May 2013)

You have to admire Dayvo's willingness to seize the initiative there.... I think.

The only other explanation of Wiggins' losing time like this would be a woeful fuelling mistake, so I guess my money is on the crash explanation put forth by DB.


----------



## Dayvo (7 May 2013)

VamP said:


> You have to admire Dayvo's willingness to seize the initiative there.... I think.


 
I think it was Noodley who was having the seizure.


----------



## Crackle (7 May 2013)

It's early days yet but Evans has been in the final mix in the last two stages, he looks keen.


----------



## Tomba (7 May 2013)

Had another look at the recording and a Cannondale rider was getting a shove back on from neutral service around the 1.8km. Could this have been the Wiggins crash?


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

Tomba said:


> Had another look at the recording and a Cannondale rider was getting a shove back on from neutral service around the 1.8km. Could this have been the Wiggins crash?


Yes, it was a cannondale guy who crashed but the jury are saying that bike transponder data shows Wiggins was already gapped at the 3 km to go point, so he won't get those 17 secs back.


----------



## Crackle (7 May 2013)

thom said:


> Yes, it was a cannondale guy who crashed but the jury are saying that bike transponder data shows Wiggins was already gapped at the 3 km to go point, so he won't get those 17 secs back.


 
Ah right. I couldn't find anything besides reports which suggested he'd lost contact in the mist and rain on the bends and the only people referring to a hold-up, were Sky.


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Ah right. I couldn't find anything besides reports which suggested he'd lost contact in the mist and rain on the bends and the only people referring to a hold-up, were Sky.


something of an explanation


----------



## rich p (7 May 2013)

Wiggins has a bit of previous of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He needs to be a bit sharper at the sharp end of the race.


----------



## rich p (7 May 2013)

Incidentally, the two Irish commentators gave no mention of Wiggins not being in the lead group when it was clear that the only Sky rider was Uran. Quigley's rider recognition under pressure is poor - bring back Dave Harmon.


----------



## smutchin (7 May 2013)

Some of the second-string commentators do make you realise how good Harmon is, for all his quirks.


----------



## beastie (7 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Incidentally, the two Irish commentators gave no mention of Wiggins not being in the lead group when it was clear that the only Sky rider was Uran. Quigley's rider recognition under pressure is poor - bring back Dave Harmon.


If it was clear then why do you need Quigley to tell you? Are you watching it on radio whilst listening to the TV commentary? A bit like test match special on with the telly turned down, but you have gan slightly awry.


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

rich p said:


> He needs to be a bit sharper at the sharp end of the race.


To the point as always @rich p.


----------



## Noodley (7 May 2013)

beastie said:


> If it was clear then why do you need Quigley to tell you?


 
I'm sure there was no "need" but it is rather good to have a commentator who knows what he/she is on about - if they make mistakes with the easy stuff then how are we gonna believe them when it comes to the more complex in-race "stuff". Credibility. Zero, if you make an arse of simple stuff.


----------



## thom (7 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I'm sure there was no "need" but it is rather good to have a commentator who knows what he/she is on about - if they make mistakes with the easy stuff then how are we gonna believe them when it comes to the more complex in-race "stuff". Credibility. Zero, if you make an arse of simple stuff.


It's terrible innit. I advise anyone who's paying to watch it to demand a refund.


----------



## 400bhp (7 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> It's early days yet but Evans has been in the final mix in the last two stages, he looks keen.


 
He needs to be - he'll go backwards in the mountains.


----------



## rich p (7 May 2013)

beastie said:


> If it was clear then why do you need Quigley to tell you? Are you watching it on radio whilst listening to the TV commentary? A bit like test match special on with the telly turned down, but you have gan slightly awry.


It was clear to me but I was looking pretty closely. I'd wager that a lot of more casual and occasional viewers would have had no idea how to differentiate Wiggins and Uran at a distance. That's not meant to be patronising, but not everyone is a nerd, and many rely on the commentators to tell them what's going on. It is their job, after all, otherwise there would be no need for them.
Crikey, even I miss some nuances sometimes and appreciate the experts' analysis.
David Harmon wouldn't have missed something so crucial.
I don't dislike Quigley and he's a new boy who will get better. I've less sympathy for Kelly getting it wrong.


----------



## beastie (8 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It was clear to me but I was looking pretty closely. I'd wager that a lot of more casual and occasional viewers would have had no idea how to differentiate Wiggins and Uran at a distance. That's not meant to be patronising, but not everyone is a nerd, and many rely on the commentators to tell them what's going on. It is their job, after all, otherwise there would be no need for them.
> Crikey, even I miss some nuances sometimes and appreciate the experts' analysis.
> David Harmon wouldn't have missed something so crucial.
> I don't dislike Quigley and he's a new boy who will get better. I've less sympathy for Kelly getting it wrong.


Look on the bright side- at least it's not Carlton Kirby.


----------



## beastie (8 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It was clear to me but I was looking pretty closely. I'd wager that a lot of more casual and occasional viewers would have had no idea how to differentiate Wiggins and Uran at a distance. That's not meant to be patronising, but not everyone is a nerd, and many rely on the commentators to tell them what's going on. It is their job, after all, otherwise there would be no need for them.
> Crikey, even I miss some nuances sometimes and appreciate the experts' analysis.
> David Harmon wouldn't have missed something so crucial.
> I don't dislike Quigley and he's a new boy who will get better. I've less sympathy for Kelly getting it wrong.



I wasn't really being serious. Harmon is my preferred cycling commentator, with Kelly, Smith or Big Maggy all worthy experts. I thought Sean Kelly was a fair bit more voluble with Quigley though. 

They all have their mkoments though. Remember Harmon @ the Ronde? Spartacus "literally killed" Sagan


----------



## Peteaud (8 May 2013)

When Kelly gets going i cant understand a word he says.

But i do like him tho.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (8 May 2013)

Kelly drives me a bit nuts but there is something likeable about him. Why he says "decents" instead of "descents" is way beyond me. 
My biggest gripe about the commentators is that they don't know anyones names!! Sometimes relying on the pop ups on screen.

"Oh, a crash and it's..........................erm.............................." Silence. Then 30 seconds later Kelly pitches in with the name.


----------



## Peteaud (8 May 2013)

Kellys Turds are even better !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 May 2013)

I like Kelly, he needs a bit of prompting to speak sometimes, but he knows what he is on about and will often also correct the other guy if needed. He is very experienced, obviously, and his insight and knowledge are valuable.


----------



## Lee_M (8 May 2013)

Kelly is a pain in the bum, he gets asked a simple question and talks for 5 minutes. Sometimes I just want him to shut the heck up and watch the race


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

Lee_M said:


> Kelly is a pain in the bum, he gets asked a simple question and talks for 5 minutes. Sometimes I just want him to shut the heck up and watch the race


 
Mute button.


----------



## Lee_M (8 May 2013)

yebbut then I might miss something useful (although not if he doesnt stfu)


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

Lee_M said:


> yebbut then I might miss something useful (although not if he doesnt stfu)


 
That's the only benefit of having Liggett and Sherwen commentating - never any chance of missing anything useful.


----------



## beastie (8 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> That's the only benefit of having Liggett and Sherwen commentating - never any chance of missing anything useful.


Blah blah.... suitcase of courage.....blahbkah.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

Kelly is by far the most knowledgable and insightful English-language commentator.


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Kelly is by far the most knowledgable and insightful English-language commentator.


 
Brian Smith runs him close IMO


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

Interesting to read Robert Millar's comments on the first three stages in his Giro blog on Cyclingnews. He noticed Wiggins was not quite with it all the time on the third stage:

"Bradley Wiggins let himself lose sight of the front for a few minutes and Astana would have noticed that. Temporary lapse, tactics or bluffing from Sky? Probably just the first guess but you get the feeling that Nibali will pounce on any error or hesitation from Wiggins."

What happened yesterday showed he was spot-on. Wiggins has to get his mind on the job. Physically he seems in good shape, but I wonder whether he actually feels like he's been slapped down by Dave Brailsford over the whole Froome thing and that this is playing on his mind like a bad song that you can't get out your head. Anyway, I hope he gets whatever it is sorted out in his head and can just keep his full attention on what's happening on the road.


----------



## rich p (8 May 2013)

I actually think both Magnus Backstedt and Brian Smith are better these days at analysing a race in midstream. Kelly says too little and uses too many clichés and repetitions.
There's a relatively new commentator, as opposed to expert analyser, called Robbie Hatch who is pretty good apart from a habit of insisting on pronouncing every foreign word and name like a native. I know it's strictly correct but can get a bit tiresome.


----------



## VamP (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> What happened yesterday showed he was spot-on. Wiggins has to get his mind on the job. Physically he seems in good shape, but I wonder whether he actually feels like he's been slapped down by Dave Brailsford over the whole Froome thing and that this is playing on his mind like a bad song that you can't get out your head. Anyway, I hope he gets whatever it is sorted out in his head and can just keep his full attention on what's happening on the road.


 
I didn't see the stage, but from the reports the last section was in poor visibility on very slippery cobbles. I wonder if Wiggins just played it safe?


----------



## 400bhp (8 May 2013)

A lot of reading into a few seconds lost - bit of a non event IMO.

Shat happens.


----------



## tigger (8 May 2013)

@Flying_Monkey. It was notable in Brailsford's interview yesterday how he stated that Wiggins was in great shape both physically and mentally. I thought the specific mention of the mental element was telling, and indeed that something may be amiss. Millar's comments were bang on. Wiggins hasn't been nearly so glued to the front as he was in the Tour.

Perhaps yesterday will be the kick up the arse needed?


----------



## The Couch (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ... but I wonder whether he actually feels like he's been slapped down by Dave Brailsford over the whole Froome thing and that this is playing on his mind like a bad song that you can't get out your head


 
I think what needs highlighting is that he's not in the same superb shape as last year... but still the stage yesterday was something that shouldn't have been an issue..so indeed might just be a slight mental lapse
Still I believe that the decision from DB should only motivate Wiggins to give it all in the Giro (it might just take a few days till it gets through to Wiggins)


Then again 400bhp might be right... a small breach in the peloton where to many people look into


----------



## smutchin (8 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I actually think both Magnus Backstedt and Brian Smith are better these days at analysing a race in midstream. Kelly says too little and uses too many clichés and repetitions.


I think I agree with FM that Kelly is still the best - more for what he says than how he says it (he does use an awful lot more words than is strictly necessary) - but I've been very impressed with Magnus Backstedt lately, and Brian Smith is always sound.



> There's a relatively new commentator, as opposed to expert analyser, called Robbie Hatch who is pretty good apart from a habit of insisting on pronouncing every foreign word and name like a native. I know it's strictly correct but can get a bit tiresome.


 
I don't think I would have known who you meant without mentioning that quirk.


----------



## smutchin (8 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> I think what needs highlighting is that he's not in the same superb shape as last year...
> Then again 400bhp might be right... a small breach in the peloton where to many people look into


 
400bhp is spot on and there's no hard evidence (yet) to support your first statement.


----------



## tigger (8 May 2013)

Agreed - its easy to read too much into small situations. BUT, I'd say there have been too many of these small situations already. Ultimately his main GC rivals didn't get caught out yesterday. Some of his rivals took a little time off him the day before through extra effort and vigilance. Generally he hasn't been at the front with his rivals at key points so far. Its not panic stations by any means, but this race could be won or lost by a handful of seconds, and the 20 seconds from the TTT have already been handed back. Its head out of arse and cock on the block time for Wiggins IMO


----------



## Crackle (8 May 2013)

Kelly always calls the breaks right, whether they'll stick or not and how much time they need. I do like Backstedt and Smith though, Backstedt is bang up to date on his inside knowledge.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Kelly always calls the breaks right, whether they'll stick or not and how much time they need. I do like Backstedt and Smith though, Backstedt is bang up to date on his inside knowledge.


Another vote for Backstedt here. And because they're under pressure to keep a live commentary when there's nothing significant happening, the fact that he's got a ''good voice'' helps a lot.


----------



## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

Am I the only person who thought that Wiggins looked really rough yesterday? He just looked like he was either suffering or would rather be doing something else. Perhaps it was because he wasn't wearing his sunglasses, so we could see his eyes.


----------



## rich p (8 May 2013)

I'm going to reserve judgment till we get to the bigger hills. I don't believe for a second that Wiggo is in such a poor state that he can't keep up on yesterday's climb given the people that did. I suspect a bit of complacency.


----------



## Radchenister (8 May 2013)

Ditto, lost focus for a bit, long day, bad weather etc. - needs to keep that brain sharp!


----------



## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

I know that Wiggins was fit enough to cope with that stage but I was wondering if he might have picked up a bug? Teammate Cataldo was ill the night before the TTT so there could be something floating about the team bus. Sky don't seem to have been doing 'inattentive' recently.


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

There is a pic of Wiggins on cyclingnews in which he looks like Wilfred Bramble
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/wiggins-loses-ground-at-serra-san-bruno/264585


----------



## rich p (8 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I know that Wiggins was fit enough to cope with that stage but I was wondering if he might have picked up a bug? Teammate Cataldo was ill the night before the TTT so there could be something floating about the team bus. Sky don't seem to have been doing 'inattentive' recently.


I was surprised that Cataldo was notable by his absence on the climb so maybe that explains it.


----------



## thom (8 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> There is a pic of Wiggins on cyclingnews in which he looks like Wilfred Bramble
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/wiggins-loses-ground-at-serra-san-bruno/264585


Or Jonathan Agnew:






Most people would look a bit crap after the longest stage of the race through unpleasent weather.
I think it was just a minor lapse, possibly he hasn't raced enough to be fully switched on. Maybe he just ran out of fuel a bit.


----------



## Radchenister (8 May 2013)

Yep, saw that ColinJ in the Cycling Weekly web post, might be taking the edge off - hopefully a short duration thing for them; a flat(ish) circa 200km stage today.

Depending on what location you check, the day looks fairly comfortable in terms of temp's but a chance of some rain again (location of finish is just in land from this forecast):
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...el-colle-italy#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1360281600


----------



## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

thom said:


> Most people would look a bit crap after the longest stage of the race through unpleasent weather.
> 
> I think it was just a minor lapse, possibly he hasn't raced enough to be fully switched on. Maybe he just ran out of fuel a bit.


Well, we soon find out!

My Eurosport Player app has suddenly started working again after several weeks downtime so I should be able to watch the rest of the Giro in glorious 720p quality.


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I should be able to watch the rest of the Giro in glorious 720p quality.


 
£7.20!! You can get a free live stream you know...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

If losing a few seconds wasn't bad enough, apparently those dastardly foreigners are intent on wrecking Wiggins's chances! I knew they should have stuck with 100% British riders, then they would win everything... 

Seriously though, I am surprised Uran has stuck around so long - he deserves as much of a shot at the big races as Wiggins, Porte or Froome IMHO and as for Henao - he's going to be huge. Sky might be able to hang on to him for a year or two, but I can see one of the big Spanish teams being a rather more attractive home. But I don't any evidence that either of them are undermining Wiggins. They have done nothing if not give 100% to the team over the last couple of years.


----------



## smutchin (8 May 2013)

It'll be interesting to see if Cav is anywhere near the front end of the race at the finish today. Can't see it myself but who knows...
I fancy Sacha Modolo for this one.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> If losing a few seconds wasn't bad enough, apparently those dastardly foreigners are intent on wrecking Wiggins's chances! I knew they should have stuck with 100% British riders, then they would win everything...
> 
> Seriously though, I am surprised Uran has stuck around so long - he deserves as much of a shot at the big races as Wiggins, Porte or Froome IMHO and as for Henao - he's going to be huge. Sky might be able to hang on to him for a year or two, but I can see one of the big Spanish teams being a rather more attractive home. But I don't any evidence that either of them are undermining Wiggins. They have done nothing if not give 100% to the team over the last couple of years.


The Sky explanation makes good sense to me - a double gain strategy. I wish that we'd been able to see the moment when Uran went on ahead of Wiggins just to be sure, though.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

I think Uran was just given the freedom to go for the stage win yesterday if you had the chance - and he did.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 May 2013)

It has to be a Colombian Conspiracy, they all live in the same house ha ha
https://twitter.com/gospina/status/320149020788006912


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> It'll be interesting to see if Cav is anywhere near the front end of the race at the finish today. Can't see it myself but who knows...
> I fancy Sacha Modolo for this one.


 
I doubt it too, I had today's stage in mind for Battaglin when I put him in my velogames fantasy team - but he delivered a day early  

As for today's winner....I'm going to go for Pozzatto (I reckon Lampre might do something today so will also go for a blanket "or any other Lampre rider" get out of jail card)


----------



## 400bhp (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> If losing a few seconds wasn't bad enough, apparently those dastardly foreigners are intent on wrecking Wiggins's chances! I knew they should have stuck with 100% British riders, then they would win everything...
> 
> Seriously though, I am surprised Uran has stuck around so long - he deserves as much of a shot at the big races as Wiggins, Porte or Froome IMHO and as for Henao - he's going to be huge. Sky might be able to hang on to him for a year or two, but I can see one of the big Spanish teams being a rather more attractive home. But I don't any evidence that either of them are undermining Wiggins. They have done nothing if not give 100% to the team over the last couple of years.


 
It's a bit silly isn't it. By using such tactics is then likely to make any prospective teams think they aren't team players, therefore undermining a change of team.


----------



## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> £7.20!! You can get a free live stream you know...


Ha ha! 

I'm locked in to a £1.99/month subscription but I'm happy to pay that now I can watch the cycling with a decent picture and sound quality. (The normal sub is £2.99/month but I got it on a special offer and it seems to stay the same as long as I don't let it lapse. I think 12 x £1.99 is pretty good value for a year's worth of cycling coverage, plus a few other sports from time to time.)


----------



## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> It's a bit silly isn't it. By using such tactics is then likely to make any prospective teams think they aren't team players, therefore undermining a change of team.


But they wouldn't be changing teams to be team _players_, they would want to be team _leaders_!


----------



## 400bhp (8 May 2013)

A leader that disobeys team orders and is generally an arse to be around vs a leader that obeys team orders and gets on with the rest of the team.

Same potential, which one gets the job.


----------



## Rob3rt (8 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> But they wouldn't be changing teams to be team _players_, they would want to be team _leaders_!


 
"Lead by example" comes to mind!


----------



## Noodley (8 May 2013)

I've just seen pics of Lauren Pichon's bandaged-up injuries  

He won't be too hard to spot in the peloton if you get a close-up, he'll be the one with the bandages covering the majority of the skin not covered by his kit...including his face.


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## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

It's looking rather wet at the finish!


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## rich p (8 May 2013)

Kelly is saying that Cav and OPQS aren't riding for the stage


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## Crackle (8 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Kelly is saying that Cav and OPQS aren't riding for the stage









lumpy finish?


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## rich p (8 May 2013)

Yes but there are so few chances for a sprint it must be worth an effort. Goss and Orica said they were going for it too.


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## smutchin (8 May 2013)

Cav is still in the peloton, so don't rule him out just yet... [edit: He's still hanging on but rapidly losing touch, so probably won't be there at the finish.]

AIUI, all Kelly meant is that OPQS weren't actively chasing the breakaway, because it wasn't a stage they were specifically targetting. If Cav can stay with the lead group to the top of the final climb, he'll definitely go for it.

Pirazzi on the attack now!


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## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

Cav is finally out the back (along with Goss) - I though the end was too rolling for him. He did really well on that steep climb though.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

Crash! All kinds of people down.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 May 2013)

Degenkolb. Ruthlessly hunted down the lone Bardiani rider out front after that crash.


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## raindog (8 May 2013)

Well, that crash f cked things up a bit


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## Strathlubnaig (8 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Cav is finally out the back (along with Goss) - I though the end was too rolling for him. He did really well on that steep climb though.


glad to see even pros can weave slowly up hills !


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## thom (8 May 2013)

Degenkolb - seems a good guy, swearing in English on Rai ;-)


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## smutchin (8 May 2013)

Two Colombians (Henao and Pantano) in the top six on the stage!

That's a proper pr0n star tache Degenkolb has, isn't it?


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## Strathlubnaig (8 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Two Colombians (Henao and Pantano) in the top six on the stage!
> 
> That's a proper pr0n star tache Degenkolb has, isn't it?


aye, I was looking at him and thinking he must be growing it for a bet or something.


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## smutchin (8 May 2013)

@thebikeshow: Burt Reynolds wins today's stage of the Giro d'Italia.


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## ayceejay (8 May 2013)

Perhaps a bit late with this but my vote for the "worst coverage" goes to the Guardian:-

"_If you think things are dull here, on Eurosport they're currently discussing the finer points of - I think - thin asymmetric chain rings. If anyone can send me a genuinely interesting email about such items, or indeed the sprockets which house them as they go about their business_,"
for instance.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 May 2013)

Great thinking, a wet zebra crossing on the final bend! Ok, they can't have planned the rain but....


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## Noodley (8 May 2013)

They should have given it an umbrella and told it to look before it stepped into the roadway


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## tigger (8 May 2013)

I heard Wiggins has lost more time and has dropped back to 90th?? Is just pre stewards adjustment?


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## woohoo (8 May 2013)

Most web sites are showing the bunch as getting the same time, so it looks like no change overall (so far!).


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## thom (8 May 2013)

tigger said:


> I heard Wiggins has lost more time and has dropped back to 90th?? Is just pre stewards adjustment?


*General Classification after Stage 5*
ITA 1 PAOLINI, Luca (KATUSHA) 19:56:39
COL 2 URAN URAN, Rigoberto (SKY PROCYCLING) + 17
ESP 3 INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Benat (MOVISTAR TEAM) + 26
ITA 4 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA PRO TEAM) + 31
CAN 5 HESJEDAL, Ryder (GARMIN SHARP) + 34
GBR 6 WIGGINS, Bradley (SKY PROCYCLING) 
ITA 7 CARUSO, Giampaolo (KATUSHA) + 36
COL 8 HENAO MONTOYA, Sergio Luis (SKY PROCYCLING) + 37
ITA 9 SANTAMBROGIO, Mauro (VINI FANTINI - SELLE ITALIA) + 39
AUS 10 EVANS, Cadel (BMC RACING) + 42


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## tigger (8 May 2013)

Thats the last time I listen to my mate


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## AndyRM (8 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Thats the last time I listen to my mate


 
The Beeb reckoned the rain had affected the timing equipment.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> The Beeb reckoned the rain had affected the timing equipment.


Maybe it was the pond in the transponders.


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## montage (8 May 2013)

Interesting that Bradley has reverted from oval chainrings to standard ones "in order to deal with the steeper climbs" - thought the opposite was supposed to be true


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## thom (8 May 2013)

montage said:


> Interesting that Bradley has reverted from oval chainrings to standard ones "in order to deal with the steeper climbs" - thought the opposite was supposed to be true


Based on that quote, I would guess it's due to stability with gear changes. When you change to the inner ring on an uphill without momentum due to a steep pitch, I'm imagining your chain will be taut and perhaps the irregular shaped target inner ring is a harder target to hit. That might have caused the bike parking incident, i dunno...
More speculation : osymmetric rings give a minor efficiency gain when you are really on top of the gear, so steep climbing is not the scenario.


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## AndyRM (8 May 2013)

I thought he only used the oval rings for TT? Or am I massively wrong?


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## smutchin (8 May 2013)

montage said:


> Interesting that Bradley has reverted from oval chainrings to standard ones "in order to deal with the steeper climbs" - thought the opposite was supposed to be true



The commentators were suggesting the reason for the standard chainrings was compatibility issues with Shimano 11spd electronics. Are they wrong? Is the steeper climbs quote direct from Brad?


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## montage (8 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> The commentators were suggesting the reason for the standard chainrings was compatibility issues with Shimano 11spd electronics. Are they wrong? Is the steeper climbs quote direct from Brad?


 
From Team Sky's webchat - the 11spd electronics sounds like a more plausible explanation though


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## triangles (8 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> The commentators were suggesting the reason for the standard chainrings was compatibility issues with Shimano 11spd electronics. Are they wrong? Is the steeper climbs quote direct from Brad?


I'm fairly sure I've read this earlier this year


----------



## woohoo (8 May 2013)

IIRC, the smallest Osymetric rings are 36 or 38 but a compact will be 34, so it might be a gearing issue and 11 speed (chain rather that electronic, per se) might be a compatibility issue.

Happy to be corrected.

(... and as for gearing in the Giro, it was only a few years ago that some of the teams were fitting triples for the really steep stages.)


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## Crackle (8 May 2013)

tigger said:


> I heard Wiggins has lost more time and has dropped back to 90th?? Is just pre stewards adjustment?


Results show 90th, same time as winner.


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## Rob3rt (8 May 2013)

If they (Sky) wanted him on Osymetrics or if he wanted them, then they would have him on them. Regardless of "compatability", they would get round it. People have modified them (including making them thinner) to suit various setups. Not sure of the UCI reg's on modifying things though? BTW, the new Shimano 11spd uses a different spider arrangement, only 4 bolts, yet he was riding on a 5 bolt SRM power meter so he may still be on a 10spd chainset so there would be no issue anyway.

Most people who use Osymetrics report improved recovery and less fatigue, rather than improved speeds and power output and many of those reporting increased power output may well be misunderstanding the data, as some power meters will provide inflated readings when using non-round rings even if there is no actual increase in rider power output. The use to minimise fatigue makes sense from a GC rider stand point.

Lots are speculating that it is the case that Shimano simply did not want him on those rings and said he should be using their products. Others speculate that the fad is over. Who knows, or indeed cares all that much, it's just a "silly ring" as Wiggo puts it!


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## ColinJ (8 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Who knows, or indeed cares all that much, it's just a "silly ring" as Wiggo puts it!


The one thing it proves is that Wiggins has been silly - either he was silly in the first place for thinking that the rings worked but they _didn't_, or they _do_ work and he is silly now for _thinking_ that they don't!


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## thom (8 May 2013)

Next up, a pancake for the sprinters :


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## woohoo (9 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> The one thing it proves is that Wiggins has been silly - either he was silly in the first place for thinking that the rings worked but they _didn't_, or they _do_ work and he is silly now for _thinking_ that they don't!


Good analysis! Personally, I think that the availability of smaller chainrings (both actual and effective) is likely to be the main reason for the change (especially in the Giro) and, no doubt, the ever-present desire/need to keep the team's equipment sponsor happy.


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## Rob3rt (9 May 2013)

User3094 said:


> I read an interview somewhere that he'd been training himself out of oval rings this year.


 
Interestingly, many users ride both round and oval rings. Oval rings for racing, round for training. You should not need to train out of them!


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## Noodley (9 May 2013)

I am just back home after a wee ride in the country - I used square rings and can report that they dinnae work!


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## Rob3rt (9 May 2013)

You didn't set them up in the correct alignment with your pedal stroke, sorry Noodley, you are just silly!


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## Scoosh (9 May 2013)

I think they call that _wind_, Noodles


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 May 2013)

It looks like Wurf is set for a long day out the front again but this time he's got Bobridge for company.


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## rich p (9 May 2013)

3 riders on the wrong carriageway!! I can't help hoping they end up on a junction


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## triangles (9 May 2013)

I've only been half watching,did I just hear that they were crossing the barrier as they were being approached by cars using the other carriageway??

Also were they able to get a musette in the end?


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## AndyRM (9 May 2013)

triangles said:


> I've only been half watching,did I just hear that they were crossing the barrier as they were being approached by cars using the other carriageway??
> 
> Also were they able to get a musette in the end?


 
One of them stopped and grabbed his. Not sure if he switched back over though!

I wonder how the concrete is drying in the pothole at the end!!


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## Flying_Monkey (9 May 2013)

Only one thing to say today:

Sempre Con Noi - 108 - Wouter Weylandt.


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## Radchenister (9 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> One of them stopped and grabbed his. Not sure if he switched back over though!
> 
> *I wonder how the concrete is drying in the pothole at the end!!*


 
The Centurions have been down there fixing it no doubt, the word in the forum is that they might progress to tarmac when they've proven the new technology.

...and a mean slide off from one of the motorbikes!


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## Sittingduck (9 May 2013)

Bloody scooter riders!


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## tug benson (9 May 2013)

moped to heavy on the throttle


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## Noodley (9 May 2013)

Bouhanni for the win today!!!


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 May 2013)

Total road block there! Wiggins held up because he was on the way back with a mechanical and couldn't get through.


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## thom (9 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Total road block there! Wiggins held up because he was on the way back with a mechanical and couldn't get through.


Interesting how the rest of the field is clearly waiting. Seems to have been initiated by Katusha with the pink jersey.
Good form - Brad's tack-gate behaviour gets good karma payback.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 May 2013)

thom said:


> Interesting how the rest of the field is clearly waiting. Seems to have been initiated by Katusha with the pink jersey.
> Good form - Brad's tack-gate behaviour gets good karma payback.


Maybe there is an advantage to having a train of Sky riders at the back - they got back really swiftly.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 May 2013)

Good riding by Sky to get the whole team back on and almost immediately up to the front.


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## AndyRM (9 May 2013)

Boom! Cav wins.


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## AndyRM (9 May 2013)

And some handbags! Really exciting end to the race.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 May 2013)

Bouhani wasn't at all happy with someone - maybe Gavazzi. Bouhani got himself blocked in on the boards though - it was his own fault, and he couldn't even headbutt his way out this time.


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## RecordAceFromNew (9 May 2013)

Good to see a perfect leadout!


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## Keith Oates (9 May 2013)

Happy that Cav made it and Wiggins and Sky were also near the front, good day all around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (9 May 2013)

A bit tough for Bouhanni there - got well boxed in. Still, that happens to the best in these big sprints.

Classy dedication for Weylandt from Cav at the end of the interview.


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## smutchin (9 May 2013)

Classy Caterham 7 metaphor too.


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## smutchin (9 May 2013)

> @ukcyclingexpert: Gold for Britain! Well done Mark Cavendish OBE. Keeping Team GB top of the medal table at the Giro of Italy.


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## triangles (9 May 2013)

He's brilliant isn't he 

Wiggins is currently 6th in the GC (Giro Contest)


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## rich p (9 May 2013)

Classy lead-out, classy sprint and classy post-race interview.


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## Andy_R (9 May 2013)

triangles said:


> He's brilliant isn't he
> 
> Wiggins is currently 6th in the GC _*(Giro Contest)*_


 Isn't that the rush for the post office on a Thursday morning? Or am I thinking of pensioners?


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## Crackle (9 May 2013)

Tomorrow is a nasty day. Some of the climbs are maxing out at 18/19% for sections with lots of 8 to 14% gradients.

Long lone heroic breakaway?


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## thom (9 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Tomorrow is a nasty day. Some of the climbs are maxing out at 18/19% for sections with lots of 8 to 14% gradients.
> 
> Long lone heroic breakaway?


Best chance so far by the looks of it. But those really steep bits might encourage a GC rider to attack too and test out the opposition teamwork - Ryder already had a go, Nibali might be able to put Brad under some pressure over the last 25 km.


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## Herzog (9 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Tomorrow is a nasty day. Some of the climbs are maxing out at 18/19% for sections with lots of 8 to 14% gradients.
> 
> Long lone heroic breakaway?


Shame T de Gendt isn't there...


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## Scoosh (9 May 2013)

Nice quote from Cav on the BBC site:


> "What does it feel like? Imagine you get a kit car, you build it and when you start it, you get that feeling - it's like that.
> "It's like all the bits of an engine and* I'm just the exhaust at the end, the bit that makes the most noise*. That's how it feels - everything just fits together."


Classic Cav


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## raindog (9 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Long lone heroic breakaway?


yep - could well be. A local boy maybe? Can't wait.


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## jifdave (9 May 2013)

Good time for nibbles to try and put time into wiggo.... work him hard before the tt


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## thom (10 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> Good time for nibbles to try and put time into wiggo.... work him hard before the tt


Today's stage has the potential to cause carnage - could be excellent racing and could really put the pressure on Wiggo for the TT.


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## Peter Armstrong (10 May 2013)

I've not read the full Thread, but incase it hasnt been mentioned just google "Britsh Eurosport Stream" and watch it for free!


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## jifdave (10 May 2013)

thom said:


> Today's stage has the potential to cause carnage - could be excellent racing and could really put the pressure on Wiggo for the TT.


alternately if he cant put much time into wiggo the pressure switches..... if i recall ryder is a reasonable tt'er so see what he does today too...


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## Slaav (10 May 2013)

Is it just me that thinks Wiggo was deliberately laying down something of a marker in yesterday's stage?

First we had teh mechanical, the WHOLE team (in effect) waited for him and he didnt sit in for the ride and get dragged back to the group. He did his turns and if anything drove the pace at times.

Then the crash etc - what a nightmare? Can now understand why the Columbiana (love that) stuck at the front rather than also wait. So, plenty of time lost and whilst the leaders did slow slightly, Sky again drove the chase pretty hard. Wiggo again pulling his turns for at least his share.

Then, when they caught the leading group, what did Wiggo do? Go straight to the front and drive forward again! Then managed to take turns on teh front again to raise the pace etc. and that was immediately after having chased the main leaders down.

He didnt 'need' to do all of that. So why?


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## Sittingduck (10 May 2013)

Showing them who's Boss maybe? Perhaps he was just feeling good.


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## 400bhp (10 May 2013)

To me, Wiggins is looking fantastic


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## 400bhp (10 May 2013)

Oh, and just booked a hotel on the TT course of stage 18


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## Radchenister (10 May 2013)

Wonder if they'll dodge the storms?
Will get warm and sticky at some point during the afternoon apparently: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...national-italy#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1360281600


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## thom (10 May 2013)

From inrng.






Reminds me of the Tirreno-Adriatico stage where Froome didn't wear enough clothing.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> Is it just me that thinks Wiggo was deliberately laying down something of a marker in yesterday's stage?
> 
> First we had teh mechanical, the WHOLE team (in effect) waited for him and he didnt sit in for the ride and get dragged back to the group. He did his turns and if anything drove the pace at times.
> 
> ...


Of course, some of it was probably just staying out of any more trouble, some of it being charged up from the chase, but I was surprised when he first plonked himself right on the front so that other Sky riders, who I guess were pretty much spent from the chase, had to work their way around to get in front of him, only to fade back from the front.


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## Slaav (10 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Of course, some of it was probably just staying out of any more trouble, some of it being charged up from the chase, but I was surprised when he first plonked himself right on the front so that other Sky riders, who I guess were pretty much spent from the chase, had to work their way around to get in front of him, only to fade back from the front.


 
Ah but he had also worked hard! BUt I do agree, the other chaps probably would have been much happier sitting in the pack for a while keeping themselves together and in one piece. BUt then at the front is probably (in fact almost definitely) the safest place to be


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## deptfordmarmoset (10 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> Ah but he had also worked hard! BUt I do agree, the other chaps probably would have been much happier sitting in the pack for a while keeping themselves together and in one piece. BUt then at the front is probably (in fact almost definitely) the safest place to be


Do you think he was giving his support a bit of a wake up call as well, showing them that they had to dig deeper for the rest of the stages?


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Will get warm and sticky at some point during the afternoon


 
I know it's an exciting race, but calm down!


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Do you think he was giving his support a bit of a wake up call as well, showing them that they had to dig deeper for the rest of the stages?


 
There could be something in this. It was also partly just stretching his legs to show his rivals he's there and in good shape, and partly just making sure he was at the front to avoid being caught behind any breaks in the peloton like on the previous stage.

His build-up this year has been completely different to his build-up last year, but it would be a huge mistake to interpret this as evidence of a lack of form. Last year was all about getting used to leading races and being in the limelight. He hasn't needed to do that this year, so he's playing his cards much closer to his chest. None of us can really say what his form is like because he hasn't showed us. But that first stage at Trentino should have been a little hint that he is actually in pretty good shape. And you can't read too much into what happened on the final stage because of his mechanical issues.

I'm feeling very optimistic about his chances at the moment.


----------



## Biscuit (10 May 2013)

Commentator just mentioned his top downhill speed when he was cycling was 124kph! Errr that's 77mph...on a bike!!!!


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Brad's [edit: actually Siutsou] just come to the front of the peloton on the second of the four categorised climbs. 40km to go.

And as I write, Sky have just taken up the pacesetting from Vini Fantini... It's go time!


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Uran just got knocked off by some twerp going too slow up the climb! Now he knows how the rest of us feel when we reach Ditchling Beacon on the L2B.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Amusing fall by Uran, knocked off by Wiggins by the look of it - must be trying to deal with the Colombian conspiracy the direct way! Seems to be okay though...


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

The commentators are saying the twerp who knocked him off was Wiggins. That's not going to do Sky's chances of holding on to him for another season much good.


----------



## tug benson (10 May 2013)

Uran will have a bruised bum from that


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

That Sella crash was so close to a catch. Great handling skills.


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## tug benson (10 May 2013)

baldy slipped on his arse


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Taborre Hansen is looking very impressive. [Edit: not paying attention. Taborre, chasing, looks like he'll be caught. Hansen looks like he might possibly hold on...]


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

I so badly want Hansen to win.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Danilo Di Luca wants to get to the post office before it closes to pick up his pension.


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## tug benson (10 May 2013)

roads are getting very wet, could be more falls


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## raindog (10 May 2013)

is Hansen going to get this?


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

raindog said:


> is Hansen going to get this?


 
If he does I'd get drunk tonight! If I wasn't racing tomorrow


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Hansen is away! He's got this. Tangert chasing hard, but may be going out front for Nibali.

Wiggins is looking very uncomfortable, I have to say. Uran looks easy in contrast.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

And Nibali is going away from the rest...


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Hmmm. My optimisim over Wiggins is fading slightly.


----------



## tug benson (10 May 2013)

Nibali with a wee slide


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Nibali down, closely followed by Trofimov. Yikes!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Nibali hits the deck spectacularly!


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

so slippery


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Hansen over the top of the last climb... he must have this.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

cracking slide from that pair, and hats off to Nibali for trying to make some progress and liven things up a wee bitty.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

There will a few more spills yet - the final descent is also slick.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Yep! Sella goes down again!


----------



## tug benson (10 May 2013)

wiggins with a fall


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

And Wiggins is not immune to slips either


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

And Wiggins... he's looking really rather poor. He will lose more time today.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Wiggo clearly playing it safe while Nibali takes chances... Not safe enough, though - he's just gone down!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

I thought Highland roads were bad ! Wont complain so much now.


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

all these slips showing what a masterly performance from Hansen today


----------



## raindog (10 May 2013)

the stage from hell


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And Wiggins... he's looking really rather poor today.


 
This is the kind of stage where Nibali needs to try to take time off Wiggo - I think it's more that Nibali is pushing to the limit rather than Wiggo looking poor. He is looking extremely tentative in the corners though.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

Hansens on the flat finish now, he must have this stage, nice one.


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## raindog (10 May 2013)

Hansen gonna do it - COME ON LAD!


----------



## VamP (10 May 2013)

Awesome!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> This is the kind of stage where Nibali needs to try to take time off Wiggo - I think it's more that Nibali is pushing to the limit rather than Wiggo looking poor. He is looking extremely tentative in the corners though.


'tentative' is being polite...he is riding like an _Chailleach_


----------



## laurence (10 May 2013)

so sad that Sella crashed... twice.

sad that the cheating git got back up, i mean


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Great win for Hansen. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

At this point, I am thinking that Wiggins's head is not right and there is no way he will win this tour with the attitude he is displaying right now.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

Hesjedal has put some time into the other GC hopefuls there.
Proper Rule 9 day out.


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## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Great win for Hansen. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


at least it wasn't the 'local lad' what won.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Where's Nibbles? Commentators haven't seen him cross the line yet. Presumably he was ahead of the Hesjedal/Evans group.


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## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> At this point, I am thinking that Wiggins's head is not right and there is no way he will win this tour with the attitude he is displaying right now.


 
He can probably afford to lose that time to Nibali but not to Hesjedal (or Evans, if Evans is in as good form as he appears to be at the moment).


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

You know what? Hesjedal is looking excellent this year. Wouldn't surprise me if he put in a serious challenge to Wiggins in the TT tomorrow.


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## VamP (10 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> at least it wasn't the 'local lad' what won.


 
What do you mean ''at least''?

Hansen is genuinely one of the nicest guys. Plus I have his bike


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Where's Nibbles? Commentators haven't seen him cross the line yet. Presumably he was ahead of the Hesjedal/Evans group.


He was in the same group as Ryder and Cuddles


----------



## raindog (10 May 2013)

that stage was fun for us, but f ckin horrible for the riders


----------



## laurence (10 May 2013)

cracking ride by Hansen, always good to see a tough day won by a deserved ride.

about half-way through the stage i had the feeling that Sky's plan was cracking. their controlling style doesn't work in the Giro, it requires a more opportunist attitude.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Intxuasti in pink, Nibali second. Wiggins is nowhere. Uran could have been in or near pink today, gave it up to help Wiggins back on, which is his job, but still...


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Looks like Hesjedal will probably be in pink after tomorrow.

Wiggo is now out of the top 20 in GC!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Intxuasti in pink, Nibali second. Wiggins is nowhere. Uran could have been in or near pink today, gave it up to help Wiggins back on, which is his job, but still...


And Uran had been aiming for the stage win today as well. Good effort from Nibbles to get back to the main group after that slippee-slide though.


----------



## raindog (10 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Wiggo is now out of the top 20 in GC!


just seen that - as far as winning the Giro, I reckon it's game over.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Looking at the replays, there's a huge difference in the body language between Nibali and Wiggins when they came off - Nibali rushed to get back on his bike, Wiggins almost looked like he didn't want to!

Hmmm.


----------



## 400bhp (10 May 2013)

Think he did well to get it down to around a minute!

He'll be in pink tomorrow


----------



## rich p (10 May 2013)

Wiggins rode that like a bloke who'd lost his bottle.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Looking at the replays, there's a huge difference in the body language between Nibali and Wiggins when they came off - Nibali rushed to get back on his bike, Wiggins almost looked like he didn't want to!
> 
> Hmmm.


 
Yes. Nibali showed courage, ambition and desire. Wiggins looked like he's already decided he can't win.


----------



## tigger (10 May 2013)

Bad day for Wiggo. He needs to take nearly 2 min out of his rivals to get back in touch tomorrow. This is doable normally except perhaps against Hejedal? But will the course and weather allow?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Bad day for Wiggo. He needs to take nearly 2 min out of his rivals to get back in touch tomorrow. This is doable normally except perhaps against Hejedal? But will the course and weather allow?


 
He won't get more than 30 seconds on Ryder. And the thing is he needed those 2 minutes as a cushion, not to catch up.


----------



## Trail Child (10 May 2013)

Ryder's in 3rd! I'm giddy with joy. O Canada!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

VamP said:


> What do you mean ''at least''?
> 
> Hansen is genuinely one of the nicest guys. Plus I have his bike


I was alluding to Di Luca.


----------



## tigger (10 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Wiggins rode that like a bloke who'd lost his bottle.


 
Indeed, stark contrast to Nibali who had a far more spectacular off and was straight back on the bike and into the first group.


----------



## tigger (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> He won't get more than 30 seconds on Ryder. And the thing is he needed those 2 minutes as a cushion, not to catch up.


 
Agreed. Ryder is the main threat now. Still he has to take all the time he can and see wjere his form is in the mountains.


----------



## laurence (10 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Agreed. Ryder is the main threat now. Still he has to take all the time he can and see wjere his form is in the mountains.


 
Cuddles shouldn't be ruled out, he's more likely to tough it out in the dismal conditions that Wiggins.


----------



## Crackle (10 May 2013)

Wiggins looks like he's been taking descending lessons from Andy Schleck. His head's not in it. He once said the Giro was hell, I think he's forgotten why it was hell, it's just not a race which suits his riding.


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## Crackle (10 May 2013)

Well, just been refreshing my memory. Nibs lost 2 minutes in the 42k TT in the Tour last year, Hesjedal was a minute down on the winner, Pinotti, in the 32K Giro TT last year. Tomorrows is what, 53K, so in theory, Wiggins can come out 30 secs to a minute ahead, more. In practice, it's a technical course and not flat, so that negates some of his advantage and all bets are off it's raining.


----------



## smutchin (10 May 2013)

Hey, maybe Brailsford has looked at the annual rainfall patterns for the region, calculated that it will be pissing down by the time the riders at the top of the GC set off tomorrow and told Wiggo to deliberately lose time today so he gets an earlier start?

Marginal gains!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> In practice, it's a technical course and not flat, so that negates some of his advantage and all bets are off it's raining.


 
This is important. It's the technical stuff that has been giving Wiggins problems all week. I can't see the gaps being as big as one would normally expect for a TT of this length unless Wiggins can get his head straight.


----------



## montage (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This is important. It's the technical stuff that has been giving Wiggins problems all week. I can't see the gaps being as big as one would normally expect for a TT of this length unless Wiggins can get his head straight.


 
Didn't Wiggins say he hasn't really looked at many of the stages?
Lets hope all his bad luck is done for the race and he can get on with the job now


----------



## ColinJ (10 May 2013)

And ... did he injure himself when he fell? The commentators on Eurosport seemed to think that he was nursing an elbow problem after his crash.


----------



## AndyRM (10 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> And ... did he injure himself when he fell? The commentators on Eurosport seemed to think that he was nursing an elbow problem after his crash.


 
They sounded more concerned about his hip on 5Live Extra.


----------



## ColinJ (10 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> They sounded more concerned about his hip on 5Live Extra.


Either way - he doesn't exactly have a lot of fat on his body to break a fall, does he!


----------



## montage (10 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> And ... did he injure himself when he fell? The commentators on Eurosport seemed to think that he was nursing an elbow problem after his crash.


Team Sky website says no injuries


----------



## rich p (10 May 2013)

montage said:


> Team Sky website says no injuries


Nervous breakdown?
Anyway, get back to your revision, slacker.


----------



## thom (10 May 2013)

Well I missed this all live but when I said it could be carnage earlier and for Nibali to have a go in the last 25km, I didn't expect anything like this.
Fair play to Nibali for taking the initiative and for Ryder and Cadel for being with it. Great bike racing by those prepared to front up. Wiggins just didn't have enough on the short sharp climbs.
Surely his day is done with this one - he'll need a lot of heart to front up in tomorrow's TT.

It will be interesting to see how long Cadel Evans stays in contention and what SKY try to get out of the rest of the race.


----------



## 400bhp (10 May 2013)

Last years tour, first time trial (41 km). Wiggins put 57s into cancellara and 1:43 into Evans. Nibali, 2:07 back.

Second TT, 53km. 3:38 into Nibali.

Looking forward to tomorrow.


----------



## 400bhp (10 May 2013)

thom said:


> Well I missed this all live but when I said it could be carnage earlier and for Nibali to have a go in the last 25km, I didn't expect anything like this.
> Fair play to Nibali for taking the initiative and for Ryder and Cadel for being with it. Great bike racing by those prepared to front up. *Wiggins just didn't have enough on the short sharp climbs.*
> Surely his day is done with this one - he'll need a lot of heart to front up in tomorrow's TT.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how long Cadel Evans stays in contention and what SKY try to get out of the rest of the race.


 
It looked like he was with Nibali when he went down (coverage was a bit crap to tell)?

Peeps are writing him off way too early.


----------



## thom (10 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> It looked like he was with Nibali when he went down (coverage was a bit crap to tell)?
> 
> Peeps are writing him off way too early.


Not so sure he was still there but not certain to be honest. I thought Nibali had already moved ahead of the Pink Jersey, where Wiggins was at that point.

You have to admit, he's up against it more than ever. As FM pointed out, Wiggins was supposed to be striding ahead in the TT tomorrow, not clawing back time.
We shall really see the form of all the contenders tomorrow - there will be no hiding place.

This race looks like being a real stonker again.


----------



## marinyork (10 May 2013)

montage said:


> Didn't Wiggins say he hasn't really looked at many of the stages?
> Lets hope all his bad luck is done for the race and he can get on with the job now


 
Tomorrow's stage is very similar to the one last year that went into Fano that Cav won. It's just that everyone thought it was an ultra dull stage where nowt happened. The main hill called San Bartolo was actually in that 'flat' stage, it's just the pelaton romped over it whilst David Harmon was busy telling stories about the time Marco Pantani and Rossi stopped off in a bloke's cafe in a village on top of the hill called Fiorenzuola. They were helicopter shots. I suspect the time trial will be more interesting as the motorbike cameras can follow showing much more of the course. It's a really nice stage, I wanted to go and watch it in person this year.

Anyone that rode the giro in 2012 will be familiar with the course.

The hill is easier going south as they are doing it, the big, big bends right at the end of san bartolo are really wide, but I would imagine a pro might get upto 55-60mph for bursts on those sections. After Pesaro to make it more 'technical' they have diverted the route away from the two main roads (one of which was used to ramp up a sprint). This is a slight slog, then flattish and then the climb upto Saltara.

My opinion on the TT having rode the course is that Wiggins wouldn't have as big an advantage as you expect, even though it's not like the mountain TT. It's not overly technical, but it's not as flat as it looks and there are a few difficult bends and follow throughs.


----------



## Crackle (10 May 2013)

marinyork said:


> My opinion on the TT having rode the course is....


 
Can't argue with that


----------



## rich p (10 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Can't argue with that


Apart from the appalling grammar.


----------



## rich p (10 May 2013)

thom said:


> It will be interesting to see how long Cadel Evans stays in contention and what SKY try to get out of the rest of the race.


Evans will be dropped like a stone on the first mountain top finish!


----------



## Crackle (10 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Apart from the appalling grammar.


I'll, today's Guardian article, recommend, to the house and in particular, Marin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/may/09/grammar-rules-everyone-know?INTCMP=SRCH


----------



## marinyork (10 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Can't argue with that


 
I can't wait to see what it looks like on tv. You're all going to tell me it looks really boring now , but it should be better than last year. One of the things about the helicopter shots was it doesn't necessarily show the valleys that well, just the vegetation. I like San Bartolo going south and I don't even like descending!

After Pesaro there's a cycle path that goes along the beach for a bit. If they had wanted a slightly impractical and daft crowd pleaser they could have routed a TT along this for a bit and had gigantic crowds. I think it would also have looked funny seeing someone more or less TTing along a beach.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Apart from the appalling grammar.


Or apart from the different dialect...


----------



## rich p (10 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Or apart from the different dialect...


Given the weather today, I actually thought marin meant, " ...having rowed the course.."


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2013)

If Uran and Henao had agreed with Wiggo's comments on how GT leadership should be decided, they would still both be in the top 10. Luckily for him, they are proper team players.


----------



## thom (10 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> If Uran and Henao had agreed with Wiggo's comments on how GT leadership should be decided, they would still both be in the top 10. Luckily for him, they are proper team players.


Indeed - no more precious stories of Columbian conspiracies after that


----------



## gavintc (10 May 2013)

Got home early from work and managed to watch the last 20km. What horrific conditions. I am glad I was not on a bike. I did feel for Wiggo. He looked hurt and damaged after that fall. But, good skills from Nibali, Evans et al. Personally, I think this will damage not kill his chances. Tomorrow's TT will be interesting - just hope my wife will allow me to spend time in front of the box.


----------



## Crackle (10 May 2013)

So tomorrow

Forecast:-






Course:





The weather is not looking good.


----------



## tigger (10 May 2013)

So its the race of truth tomorrow. The reports I read about the course, whilst not a walk in the park, suggested this was made forWiggo. Lets hope he can get his head straight and the weather doesn't play a part. Showers at 1.00pm if this is correct. When is Wiggo due out?

http://www.accuweather.com/en/it/saltara/1546513/hourly-weather-forecast/1546513?hour=33

Bugger - Crackle beat me to it! Choose your forecast carefully!


----------



## marinyork (10 May 2013)

The bit after Trebbiantico before they get to Centinarola, might be somewhat interesting if there is rain. I think it's quite sneaky as they've made it slightly harder than had it gone the same route into Fano as last year.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 May 2013)

Not really sure if this course is 'tailor made' for Wiggins, even Evans suggests it is no cake walk for the Sky leader. It is quite technical with a couple steep ramps. Still, if it stays dry he may regain his confidence and make some gains.


----------



## montage (10 May 2013)

Cyclingnews is saying Wiggo was also struggling on the climbs today??


----------



## themosquitoking (10 May 2013)

VamP said:


> If he does I'd get drunk tonight! If I wasn't racing tomorrow


Rule #5


----------



## jifdave (11 May 2013)

Anyone got a link to start times? Im assuming nibbs will be off about 2-2:30 so wiggo half 1 ish...


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> Anyone got a link to start times? Im assuming nibbs will be off about 2-2:30 so wiggo half 1 ish...


 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/maglia-rosa-on-the-line-in-saturdays-time-trial


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## Strathlubnaig (11 May 2013)

Ryder is heading off at 14:54 (UK time) but not sure of the others. That official Giro website is a mess, just sayin'.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/maglia-rosa-on-the-line-in-saturdays-time-trial


Cheers, but as a general warning, the times given appear to be local time, so to avoid disappointment, etc, subtract an hour for GMT.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> Anyone got a link to start times? Im assuming nibbs will be off about 2-2:30 so wiggo half 1 ish...


 
Have been looking for same but can't find any. They are supposed to start at 12:20 local time and predicting finish at 17:15, but with just over 200 riders they would probably allow a minute between starts. Since there should be around 145 before him my guesstimate is Wiggo setting off no earlier than 14:45 local time, which is 1:45pm in UK, plus* or minus N minutes, like. 

* don't think punctuality is a huge priority in Italy, ime

ps Ooops looked up his position from the wrong place. He starts at #179 not #145.


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Have been looking for same but can't find any.


 
Look up there ^^^^


----------



## T4tomo (11 May 2013)

montage said:


> Cyclingnews is saying Wiggo was also struggling on the climbs today??


From what I saw on sky highlights it was going downhill that was troubling him. He was pretty much in touch when he crashed, but afterwards had lost all confidence and was just crawling along scared in case he crashed again. 

Nibali by contrast crashed but got back up and carried on at the same slightly mad pace but kept the bike upright.

IF it stays dry for Wiggo today then he'll get back his time, but won't have the cushion he'd hope for going into the mountains. There will be stages / mountain finishes or big descent finishes where Nibbs will stick more time into Wiggo, so Sky may well have to attack on some stages they wouldn't have planned to.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Been thinking about yesterday's Sky tactics again. I'm thinking that it was a mistake to sacrifice both Uran and Henao to pull Wiggins back. Surely one would have been enough? And then Sky would still have had both a shot at pink and a clear Plan B in case Wiggins continues to underperform.


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Been thinking about yesterday's Sky tactics again. I'm thinking that it was a mistake to sacrifice both Uran and Henao to pull Wiggins back. Surely one would have been enough? And then Sky would still have had both a shot at pink and a clear Plan B in case Wiggins continues to underperform.


 
Interesting point and does it show up the lack of a plan B? As in the Olympic road race?


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

From a British point of view, lets hope for dry weather so we can see what Wiggins can do. If its very wet I think its fair to assume its game over for him. The forecasts are not looking too promising however?!

Free your mind and your legs will follow Sir Bradley!


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> Interesting point and does it show up the lack of a plan B? As in the Olympic road race?


 
Yep, all eggs in one basket, not playing the averages; I do hope there's a strategy we don't fully grasp and that team politics is not taking an odd twist at Sky. I've just been surfing Italian comments elsewhere and they are not condemning Sir Brad like the English speaking sites/press do. I am sympathetic to Wiggo's situation yesterday; I don't think it's unreasonable for a cautious bike handler who's crashed out of a major GC previously to be careful. Those roads looked like an oiled skid pan and I don't think many of the critics would have blazed down at the speeds involved themselves in such conditions.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I am sympathetic to Wiggo's situation yesterday, I don't think it's unreasonable for a cautious bike handler who's crashed out of a major GC previously to be cautious. Those roads looked like an oiled skid pan and I don't think many of the ctitics would have blazed down at the speeds involved themselves in such conditions.



Agreed. I don't think Wiggins is regarded as a bad bike handler by any means but when it's wet some people can cope better than others, a little like in F1 I suppose. Wiggo's a big bloke with a higher centre of gravity so he's always going to struggle when there's a lack of grip. Mind you, Ryder seemed OK yesterday. It just does to show how well rounded a GC contender needs to be


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Nibali actually crashed twice yesterday, apparently. I missed the second fall. He was probably expecting to crash, the way he was riding, but obviously took the view that the time gains were worth it and when the inevitable happened, he would just get straight back on his bike and carry on. These guys are used to falling off, of course - it's a hazard of bike racing. If you never fall off, you're probably not trying hard enough. Still hurts when it happens though, I guess. 

However, after what happened in 2011, you can understand why Wiggo took the view that losing time was a better option than falling off... shame he fell off anyway. 

It could have ended really badly for Nibali yesterday, but fortune favours the brave and all that. Same goes for Hansen - superb ride by him.


----------



## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Ryder is heading off at 14:54 (UK time) but not sure of the others. *That official Giro website is a mess, just sayin'.*


 
+1

Absolutely rubbish


----------



## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

Today's TT


----------



## thom (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Been thinking about yesterday's Sky tactics again. I'm thinking that it was a mistake to sacrifice both Uran and Henao to pull Wiggins back. Surely one would have been enough? And then Sky would still have had both a shot at pink and a clear Plan B in case Wiggins continues to underperform.


Totally agree - I think it is almost disrespectful to the Giro itself to have called back Uran, losing his second place position. Uran was 14 secs ahead of Nibali, who now is in 2nd place by 5 secs. In other words, had Uran finished within 8 or 9 secs of Nibali, he would have had the pink jersey.
Seems SKY race Grand Tours as a vanity project.


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

looks like Wiggo bottled it yesterday, no probs for Hansen tho -what a ride !


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

There is definitely no plan B with Brailsford. 

And this year he lacks the back-up of a DS who can offer him plan B, C or at least plan A and a half - Yates may have had a murky past but he knew how to call a race.

Sky have no lack of talent, but that talent will only achieve it's potential with leadership which is flexible - their continuing lack of success in the Classics and the current Giro performance demonstrates to me that a shake-up is required in the management thinking. Brailsford's formula has been found to be very effective under some circumstances, but is also lacking in many others.


----------



## Crackle (11 May 2013)

Once again, Robert Millar offers an excellent summary

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/sky-look-vulnerable-as-wiggins-loses-time

He also offers a thought for recalling Uran, they don't want him to take his points to another team. Personally I don't think they thought that far ahead.


----------



## StuAff (11 May 2013)

Relatively speaking, the wheels do seem to have come off this year. Classics failure, despite the public assertions about aiming to do better in them. The PR cockup about Tour leadership (entirely unnecessary). And now, all this at the Giro- agreed it was nuts to have Uran pulled back to help Brad when he could have ended up in pink.


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> He also offers a thought for recalling Uran, they don't want him to take his points to another team. Personally I don't think they thought that far ahead.


 
I didn't read Millar's comment as an explanation for yesterday's "tactic", more that they might have Uran supporting Henao in future rather than having him as the main climber.


----------



## Crackle (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I didn't read Millar's comment as an explanation for yesterday's "tactic", more that they might have Uran supporting Henao in future rather than having him as the main climber.


Yes, that was more me, reading between the lines.


----------



## thom (11 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> Relatively speaking, the wheels do seem to have come off this year. Classics failure, despite the public assertions about aiming to do better in them. The PR cockup about Tour leadership (entirely unnecessary). And now, all this at the Giro- agreed it was nuts to have Uran pulled back to help Brad when he could have ended up in pink.


The wheels seem to be firmly on for the TdF project though. Froome has beat Nibali, Evans & Contador this year. Porte is in great form.
I think it is just a question of emphasis - SKY still have a lot to live up to regarding the classics but... so far SKY have had a spectacular stage racing season for the races Wiggo has not been involved in competitively. Not to see this is to be blinded by the personal celebrity of Wiggins, which he ironically claims not to indulge...


----------



## thom (11 May 2013)

Anyway, so Brad goes off in about an hour.
Guess when it's supposed to start raining...?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

thom said:


> Anyway, so Brad goes off in about an hour.
> Guess when it's supposed to start raining...?


Which could be good for Brad if it sets in with all his rivals having to take the worst of it.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Dowsett currently in the lead...


1.Alex Dowsett (Movistar) 1.16.27
2.Jesse Sergent (RadioShack) + 2.00
3.Dario Cataldo (Sky) + 3.24
4.Maxim Belkov (Katusha) + 5.05
5.Stephen Cummings (BMC) + 5.41
6.Iljo Keisse (OPQS) + 6.05
7.Jens Mouris (Orica-GreenEdge) + 6.56
8.Brian Bulgac (Lotto Belisol) + 7:00
9.Ricardo Mestre (Euskaltel) + 7.18
10.Dmitriy Gruzdev (Astana) + 5.20


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 May 2013)

thom said:


> Guess when it's supposed to start raining...?


 
Webcams locally show it is.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Yup, it's already started raining at the finish.


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...s/pesaro-italy#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1360281600

Met Office shows potentially worsening weather and a wind swing (although perhaps not during the race?).

I'd be wanting to get on with it if it was me out there.


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Wiggins will be wetting himself and getting wet himself


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

Might amuse you all while we wait for action, then again maybe not  (need to use your direction arrows) !

http://www.cyclingthealps.com/protour/2013/giro/game/stage8.html


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

They're still falling off where it's dry!


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Garate was late for the start! Very unprofessional


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

rich p said:


> They're still falling off where it's dry!


At least Nibali had the good sense to fall off mech side up yesterday.


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Wiggo off in a minute or two


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Well he's off and it's dry!


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

He could do with it starting to pee down in about an hour


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Unbroken sunshine at the moment though.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Forget whatever the time may be and his woes earlier this week. Wiggins always looks class on a Time Trial bike, perfect embodiment of man and machine.


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Wiggo takes his minute man the cheating git Di Luca


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Di Luca passed. Bradley's motoring!


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

He's ridden this course before that's for sure


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Wiggo bike change!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Bike swap for Wiggo!


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

dammit


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Did he start on the Bolide?


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

If he wasn't comfy on that bike you gotta ask why he used it? Another 10-15 seconds wasted


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Did he start on the Bolide?


Yes


----------



## Sittingduck (11 May 2013)

I just don't think it's going to happen for him. Seems to be having lots of little bits of bad luck, in this race...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Yes


Cheers, just saw a shot from earlier and I recognised the gold fairings.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Looks quicker on this one. Anyway, breathe deep. Perfect embodiment and all that!

Christ this is stressful!


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

Fired up now - hopefully the rush will push him on.


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## Keith Oates (11 May 2013)

Wiggins changing his bike, when will the bad luck end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Keith Oates said:


> Wiggins changing his bike, when will the bad luck end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Time delay in Wales?


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Keith Oates said:


> Wiggins changing his bike, when will the bad luck end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wales!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!! Are you back in the UK Oatesy?


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

Is 'the work of art' still laying in the hedge?


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Brian Smith reckons it was a puncture and the Slow mo shot suggested there may have been some squish in the tyre


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

OT, I bloody hate that poxy talking San Miguel ad


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Jake Humphreys irritating isn't he?


----------



## Peteaud (11 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Brian Smith reckons it was a puncture and the Slow mo shot suggested there may have been some squish in the tyre


 
Maybe, hard to tell.

motoring now


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

looks very tentative on corners tho


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

yeah but none of them are as bad as that Farrar Transitions ad of a few years back!


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> looks very tentative on corners tho



I dunno - just after he passed Kelderman, there was a hairpin that he took very stylishly, made Kelderman look very slow. I think he's on his game today.

[edit: I guess it was actually Henao I saw passing Kelderman]


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Having said that, he's well down on the leaders at the first split. Yikes!


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Wiggins looks about 30 secs down at the intermediate?


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

7th or 8th? blimey


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Uran quicker at first split. Blimey.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Hmmmm....


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

...said he was looking slow on the corners !


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Blimey is a nice old word isn't it smutch?


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

52 seconds down on Dowsett!!!!!


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Still, the course opens up a bit now. He's gotta go absolutely full tilt now. 52 seconds down on Dowsett!


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

this commentators annoying---come back Harmon !


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

nice shot of Cav having a chat with Dowsett


----------



## Keith Oates (11 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Wales!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!! Are you back in the UK Oatesy?


For a while at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

Apparently Wiggo crashed before bike change..


----------



## fozy tornip (11 May 2013)

Sport can be a cruel mistress:


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

......and there was cheering in the Press Room ---sad journos


----------



## raindog (11 May 2013)

fantastic slo-mo image of Brad going up that slope with the crowds parting just in front of him


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

fozy tornip said:


> Sport can be a cruel mistress:
> 
> Should have parked it there !


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

Scarponi 20 secs up on Wiggo at first check


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

rich p said:


> OT, I bloody hate that poxy talking San Miguel ad


Double OT - I've been watching that ad since last summer and only just realised that it is supposed to be the beer talking! ("I have touched the lips of many women ..." just as a bottle of SM does ...) - _D'oh!_

Back to the cycling ... I said a few days ago that Wiggins looked ill, and I still reckon that he isn't feeling physically right. Either that, or he is getting depressed again.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

I think it's mental not physical.

Kangert just outside Dowsett's time - he's really in with a shot of this stage today.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Interesting - Kangert was well down at the first split so it's not all over for Brad...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

That last slope is a bit of a killer at the end of a long TT though, isn't it?


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

Is your picture ridiculously speeded up? (It might be some weird internet buffering issue on my system but the riders appear to pedalling at 200 rpm!)


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That last slope is a bit of a killer at the end of a long TT though, isn't it?


Yes, Cavendish looked absolutely wrecked when he finished.

Dowsett's time was a very good one.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Ryder Hesjedal is looking like Wiggins usually does... and Brad is still 59 seconds down.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Wiggins 59 down at second split?


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

59 secs down


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

I rebooted Eurosport Player and the picture is okay again!


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Did Kelly just say Wiggo was going to lactate?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Evans looking great too.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Gesink only 41 down


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

Evans is really going for it....


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

"Whats cadence ?"...really ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Evans 2nd at halfway.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Evans second at first split


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

That's a seriously impressive time by Henao.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Henao goes 6th - amazing performance from him. If he can do this kind of TT on a flatter course he will be the complete article.


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

Henao is one to watch for the future all right


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Wiggins... not going to beat Dowsett. Goes 2nd


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Wiggins 2nd at 10 seconds. Too slow at first half


----------



## Zofo (11 May 2013)

Wow Wiggo ! he made some up there ok


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Wiggo did well in the end but probably not well enough.


----------



## Peteaud (11 May 2013)

Interesting to hear what wiggo says later but he made up some good time.


----------



## Keith Oates (11 May 2013)

Take away the bike change and he would be first, a good performance but is it enough to get back nearer to the Pink Jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

Dowsett must be sick with nerves ...

WOW - a great second half by Wiggins. The bike change must have made those few seconds difference!

(You lot are about 30 seconds ahead of my Eurosport feed so I'm reading the results here before I see them.)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibali really working all the road on the descents. He wants this so much.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Hesjedal in 9th at the first time check. Looks smooth though.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Thus far...

1.Alex Dowsett (Movistar) 1.16.27
2.Bradley Wiggins (Sky) +0.10
3.Tanel Kangert (Astana) + 0.14
4.Stef Clement (Blanco) + 0.32
5.Luke Durbridge (Orica-GreenEdge) + 0.35
6.Manuele Boaro (Saxo-Tinkoff) + 0.45
7.Sergio Henao (Sky) + 0.53
8.Patrick Gretsch (Argos-Shimano) + 1.48
9.Jesse Sergent (RadioShack) + 2.00
10.Nelson Oliveira (RadioShack) + 2.17


----------



## raindog (11 May 2013)

let's not forget the fabulous ride Alex has put in


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Wow! Go Nibbles!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibali 8 seconds ahead of Dowsett at the time check!!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

I think he'll lose some in the 2nd half but still, this is a statement of intent.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Nibali 8 seconds ahead of Dowsett at the time check!!!



I think they might have been a bit pre-emptive with the time check but he's still going very well by his standards.

edit: actually, I'm not sure - looks like he was fastest at the first split. Astonishing!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Scarponi is slowing...


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Hejedal labouring


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Scarponi coming in now... pretty good... will be around 5th or 6th, I think. 8th - same time as Henao.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Good time by Scarponi. Only 43 down on Wiggins


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Vaughters has just tweeted that Hesjedal is saving himself for the second half. 

Hmmm!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Vaughters has just tweeted that Hesjedal is saving himself for the second half.
> 
> Hmmm!


 
Probably right. He looks okay to me - just got out of the saddle for a few seconds on a climb.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

"@willfoth: watching Mr Nibbles throw himself into those corners early on, you can see why Wiggins had a poor first half. more that than the bike change"


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Cadel is looking_ really_ good.


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@willfoth: watching Mr Nibbles throw himself into those corners early on, you can see why Wiggins had a poor first half. more that than the bike change"


 
The difference between Nibali and Wiggo on the sweeping downhill corners, let alone the blind ones was quite obvious. I would safely predict that Wiggo's 'off' yesterday cost him c. 20secs+ today in simple 'bottle'. Hope this doesnt coem across as an insult.

Without the crash yesterday, I feel Wiggo would not have been quite so cautious as he was and still finished provisional 2nd. Now to see how the leaders complete the 2nd half


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Hesjedal catching his marker.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Evans looked well down at the 2nd split?


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

Reports elsewhere that Wiggins crashed today off-camera, which would explain a lot if true!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Looking at the fact that Henao and Scarponi are in the top 10, this seems very much like a TT that also suits tough climbers. So it's not surprising to see Nibali doing so well, especially with all the winter work he did on his TT.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Evans will go backwards on the final climb.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Evans looked well down at the 2nd split?


 
Haven't seen a time check for him for ages - but he's looking very comfortable - he's 8th on the 2nd check. Just came through.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Reports elsewhere that Wiggins crashed today off-camera, which would explain a lot if true!



It's not true.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Evans at 1.33 before the climb


----------



## ColinJ (11 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's not true.


Yes - just saw SKY denials!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Evans will go backwards on the final climb.


 
Don't think he will. He looks better than most.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Gesink 9th - looked farked.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Good time by Evans but doesn't it just show what an amazing time Dowsett did!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Great ride by Evans - 6th!


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (11 May 2013)

Wiggo is definitely not in pink now.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Fantastic time by Evans. Are the splits all over the lace or perhaps Dowsett was slow up the last bit of the climb?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

With Evans only losing 30 seconds to Wiggins, I think it also shows how poor Wiggins was in relation to what he's capable of. He should have been at least a minute up on Evans if he was on top form, perhaps more.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Nibali has lost his shape. He's tough though


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Fantastic time by Evans. Are the splits all over the lace or perhaps Dowsett was slow up the last bit of the climb?


 
The latter. Evans was quick up that climb, Dowsett was just preserving himself!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibbles 5km to go... he is slowing, but still, let's see.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> With Evans only losing 30 seconds to Wiggins, I think it also shows how poor Wiggins was in relation to what he's capable of. He should have been at least a minute up on Evans if he was on top form, perhaps more.



Yep. Just too slow on the technical bits plus the bike change. In some ways it shows how good Wiggins is physically, courage / mentality still seem the issue


----------



## thom (11 May 2013)

Ryder is cooked ! 2.44 down at that time check it looked...

And Nibali 1.07 down too.

How much will these guys lose in the last 5km ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

I do feel a bit sorry for Intxausti... just one day in pink.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Great ride by Evans - 6th!



Yeah, really good ride by Evans. He's starting to look like a genuine contender.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibali goes through the second time check in 6th.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Nibali +1 minute at the foot of the climb. Good time


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Wiggins would have done better without the bike change - must have lost 20-30 seconds to get back up to speed


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Dowsett has won this though. Really, really pleased for the lad. He's even starting to smile!


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Looks like the weather held off in Italy but we're getting biblical rain down in east Kent at the moment, if anyone's interested - and now we've lost the bloody telly signal! Gah! 

Edit: phew, signal back in time to see Nibbles & Ryder finish...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Let's see how Ryder does this last slope...


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Yep. Just too slow on the technical bits plus the bike change. In some ways it shows how good Wiggins is physically, courage / mentality still seem the issue


 
Eh, if we believe the bike screwed up and wasn't just rejected, I can't really see where all this 'mental issue' stuff is coming from - if he'd have stopped completely then we might have something concrete to worry about but he got it sorted second half, so arguably the sail is back up, isn't it ?


----------



## thom (11 May 2013)

Cadel in pink ?

Edit: nope, looks to be Nibali - i must have got a time check wrong


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Let's see how Ryder does this last slope...



He's way off


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Really pleased for Dowsett


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Hesjedal is fighting this, but he's going to be well down. Looks blown.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

thom said:


> Cadel in pink ?



Starting to look very likely. Blimey. Who would have predicted that?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibbles is on his way up.


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Nibali also looking cooked.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Eh, if we believe the bike screwed up and wasn't just rejected, I can't really see where all this 'mental issue' stuff is coming from - if he'd have stopped completely then we might have something concrete to worry about but he got it sorted second half so arguably the sail is back up, isn't it ?



Yes let's hope he takes the positives and gets his mojo back. Like Rich P said, he lost at least 20-30 seconds with the change so he would have won this. Still think he looked slow on the technical stuff though.

Edit, just confirmed Wiggo puncturd


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

This is painful!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Hesjedal is... 17th


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

That's race over for Ryder. 

Astonishing performance by Nibbles.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Nibali... isn't going to be far off Wiggins.


----------



## Sittingduck (11 May 2013)

Painful just watching Ryder up that final slope.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

4th - incredible!


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Grrrrreat ride by Nibali! Only 11 down on Wiggins!


----------



## rich p (11 May 2013)

Nibali done good


----------



## Radchenister (11 May 2013)

Hat's off, 'respect for your opponent' n all that, Nibali did well.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

If Wiggins had not lost his nerve yesterday he'd be well in the lead today _and_ we would have had a British 1-2. As it is, we've got the 1-2 albeit in a different order than normal - let's hope it at least gives Bradley his head back and he can start to regroup.


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

Right. I need to do some shopping and help out with the kids apparently! I think I need a beer, that was tense!


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

Feels slightly anticlimactic for Intxausti.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Intxausti is still out there...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

He is gone. All over the road.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Intxausti is still out there...


and doing the zig-zag of shame...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

41st. At least his teammate won!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Dead pleased for Dowsett.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Well, well, well. Nibali loses only 11 seconds to Wiggins, Evans only 29.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Overall: Nibali, Evans @ 29, Gesink @ 1.15, Wiggins @ 1.16, Scarponi @ 1.24.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (11 May 2013)

Wiggins at 4th in the GC


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

To put Nibali's performance in perspective, yes, it was a technical, hilly course but all the other top 8 finishers were time trial specialists. 

And that makes Henao's 9th place look all the more impressive too.


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, well, well. Nibali loses only 11 seconds to Wiggins, Evans only 29.


 
Can anyone realistically see Wiggo clawing that back from Nibali? Looking at the overall standings, it seems Sky still have it all to do rather than defend which was their plan.

Wasn't it actually DB that said the plan was to take Pink TODAY and no earlier? Maybe it does go to show what everyone is saying about the Giro being unpredictable?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Well, as I said earlier - the course favoured two kinds of riders - TT specialists and tough climbers. But yes, Nibali's performance was special. It may have been a Giro-winning performance, but there is a long way to go yet.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Sky do have their options back again now with Henao and Uran both back in the Top 10 on GC.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (11 May 2013)

Dowsett - brilliant result for him, nice one, chuffed.
Nibali - a great TT, bit of a surprise, but he really dug in, well done.
Evans - another good result for a GC hopeful
Wiggins - good effort but not quite what most folk expected
Hesjedal - poor show for him, didn't lose a ton of time but he will be dissapointed a bit I think
Henao - if he had been left to do his own thing yesterday then today he would be in a great position

So, Astana have go to go to work now and protect that maglia rosa


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Henao will win this race in the future.


----------



## Nearly there (11 May 2013)

I had Wiggins nibali and dowsett in my fantasy team today well chuffed for dowsett


----------



## jdtate101 (11 May 2013)

My thinking:

Nibali - Obv done a lot of work on his TT style and it seems to have paid off. Fantastic effort.
Evans - Great gutsy performance and leaves him well placed.
Wiggins - Never looked comfortable, especially into the corners. Pulled back the time on the 2nd half, but he lost it big time on the technical bit. Had he not had the puncture he may have won, but by not a lot.
Hesjedal - Suprised, he looked really laboured and not good at all. Bouncing all over the place and didn't seem able to settle.

In the end I think the right man (Nibali) has won this round and deservedly too, what a fantastic ride from him.


----------



## johnnyh1 (11 May 2013)

You can watch videos here - http://giro.ilovecycling.net


----------



## Get In The Van (11 May 2013)

Will Astana have the ability to control the race now like Sky seem to be able to do, esp with Sky having 3 in the top 10? the mountains will be crucial and I still think Sky have the stronger team over Astana when it comes to the lumpy bits.
Makes for a good couple of weeks racing though


----------



## kedab (11 May 2013)

i think that with wiggo having a fairly bumpy time of things in this first week, it might force sky to have a bit of a rethink - they might actually have to have a bit of an instinctive bike race rather than the 'race by numbers' / marginal gains game they play so well. splendid stuff from dowsett today, massive congrats to him


----------



## jdtate101 (11 May 2013)

Rumour mill on twitter (not that I believe such things, but David Walsh is asking the question) saying that Wiggo may have the same stomach bug that is doing the rounds. It would certainly explain a thing or two. If he's not up for it tomorrow they should let the Columbians off the leash to go for it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (11 May 2013)

Get In The Van said:


> Will Astana have the ability to control the race now like Sky seem to be able to do, esp with Sky having 3 in the top 10? the mountains will be crucial and I still think Sky have the stronger team over Astana when it comes to the lumpy bits.
> Makes for a good couple of weeks racing though


Sky can sit at the front and pace things all they want, Nibbles just needs to sit right behind them and save energy then blitz them on the downhills.


----------



## VamP (11 May 2013)

Nibali going to take that pink off before the end? I don't think so...


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

I still cannot see a complete change of plan for Team Sky though at this stage.

My reasoning is that they can fairly easily still race their own race for a day or two and with Henao and Uran in the mix, work for those two to be Wiggo's last couple of lieutenants. That would allow them to stay in touch and limit losses if Wiggo then shows that it is just not his race this year.

HEdging their bets a bit but following that course would certainly allow them to change direction and allow Wiggo a day or two to recover, carrying out minor Domestique duties then piling the pressure on later in teh race as the ultimate super domestique? If Henao or Uran are close, Sky could simply rip the 4rse out of it with Wiggo killing the field with his TT pace at certain crucial points, leaving the Columbians to tear up the hills which they do seem rather good at!

ANyway, all very exciting and possibly more so after today 

ps - I cannot see Nibali losing this Giro though after that performance today and his general bike ability - especially balls out downhill technique....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

Sky really need Henao and Uran to be able to attack in the mountains and force Nibali into responding, and eventually, they would hope, blowing, while Siutsou, Xandio, Pate and Cataldo (if he is now feeling better) keep Wiggins close behind at the metronomic pace he likes, ready to sail past if Nibali does blow. But the probem is that it seems just as likely that it would be Evans or Gesink or Scarponi doing the sailing past on current evidence, if indeed anyone can crack Nibali at all. It's going to be a great couple of weeks coming up!


----------



## raindog (11 May 2013)

unless Nibs crashes, falls ill, or gets attacked by a swarm of hornets it's all over - the Giro just got really boring.

1 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 29:46:57 
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:29 
3 Robert Gesink (Ned) Blanco Pro Cycling Team 0:01:15 
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:01:16 
5 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre-Merida 0:01:24 
6 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin-Sharp 0:02:05 
7 Sergio Luis Henao Montoya (Col) Sky Procycling 0:02:11 
8 Mauro Santambrogio (Ita) Vini Fantini-Selle Italia 0:02:43 
9 Przemyslaw Niemiec (Pol) Lampre-Merida 0:02:44 
10 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Sky Procycling 0:02:49


----------



## Get In The Van (11 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Sky can sit at the front and pace things all they want, Nibbles just needs to sit right behind them and save energy then blitz them on the downhills.


 
I agree that all Nibali has to do, but now hes possibly got 2 new GC contenders to deal with with Uran and Henao, Evans seems to be riding well at the moment too, so does he match Wiggo and let the other Sky riders go? same with Evans, Nibali has the upper hand at the moment but I still think Sky have a slightly better long term view.
As I said earlier makes for good racing and viewing for the tv punter


----------



## Flying_Monkey (11 May 2013)

raindog said:


> unless Nibs crashes, falls ill, or gets attacked by a swarm of hornets it's all over - the Giro just got really boring.


 
More boring that watching Team Sky defend a 3 minute lead after the ITT for the next two weeks? I don't think so.


----------



## raindog (11 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> More boring that watching Team Sky defend a 3 minute lead after the ITT for the next two weeks?


Where did I suggest that?


----------



## jowwy (11 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Nibali going to take that pink off before the end? I don't think so...


who's to say that nibs wont punture or crash - also there is still another tt left. so its still all to fight for me thinks.


----------



## Scoosh (11 May 2013)

raindog said:


> Where did I suggest that?


No one is saying you did say that. 

It is simply a comparison being made.


----------



## raindog (11 May 2013)

Scoosh said:


> No one is saying you did say that.
> 
> It is simply a comparison being made.


All right, let's put it this way. Most people, including me, predicted Brad leading by a couple of minutes after today's TT and Nibali clawing that time back by attacking in the mountains, followed by a showdown in the final uphill TT, where I think Nibs would have beaten Brad. As it is, can you now see anyone successfully taking time out of Nibali to win the race? If anything, he'll probably extend his lead. So, which scenario is more boring?
Don't worry, I'll still be watching though.


----------



## RussellZero (11 May 2013)

jdtate101 said:


> Rumour mill on twitter (not that I believe such things, but David Walsh is asking the question) saying that Wiggo may have the same stomach bug that is doing the rounds. It would certainly explain a thing or two. If he's not up for it tomorrow they should let the Columbians off the leash to go for it.




Don't think so, this came from wiggo's post race interview on the team sky site:


“I think I rode it pretty well," he continued. "I was a bit ruffled after the bike change and didn’t get the best out of myself on that technical part of the course. It was a bit damp still as well so I was a bit cautious – especially after crashing yesterday. But from Pesaro onwards I really got into my stride and I think physically I was as good as I’ve ever been. But it is the way it is. We’ll deal with it now, but I’m pleased at the same for Alex Dowsett. It’s a brilliant start to his Grand Tour career."


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

What a great TT course today, it had absolutely everything. I'd love to ride that, it's probably nearly as good as the Peak District ;-)

Well I think Wiggins comments above are fair and sum it up. On a positive we have a Brit right in the mix for a podium at the Giro! Lets hope there's still a lot to play for in a weeks time. Nibali is clearly in amazing form but its not over yet by a long way. I wouldn't bet against someone taking time out of him on some mountain stages and the uphill TT. Wiggins for one has done this before.


----------



## StuAff (11 May 2013)

Nibali certainly looks strong, it was a missed opportunity for Wiggo today (or less of a recovery than it could have been), but far too early to call it just yet, particularly with Cuddles, Hesjedal, Gesink and all still in the mix.

Boring? Anything but.


----------



## Peteaud (11 May 2013)

If it just got boring i will go and watch some exciting cricket.

Still a long way to go and anything can happen.


----------



## Slaav (11 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> Nibali certainly looks strong, it was a missed opportunity for Wiggo today (or less of a recovery than it could have been), but far too early to call it just yet, particularly with Cuddles, Hesjedal, Gesink and all still in the mix.
> 
> Boring? Anything but.


 
I cannot wait fro tomorrow! I don't envisage this as boring by any stretch......

Sky have probably the strongest team by some way. That leaves them with possibly too many options. WHich will they go for?

Mmmmm.....


----------



## tigger (11 May 2013)

StuAff said:


> Boring? Anything but.



Indeed. 5 riders from different teams with around a minute between them. Strong teams too and some top draw seasoned leaders. I'm expecting some fireworks.


----------



## Crackle (11 May 2013)

Nibali 4th, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. I didn't see it but someone tell me his tt'ing style has improved out of sight?


----------



## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Nibali 4th, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. I didn't see it but someone tell me his tt'ing style has improved out of sight?


 
He clearly has, however:

From watching today it's clear that the TT was won and lost on the technical stuff. Nibali was far far stronger going downhill and Wiggo absolutely battered the final 30km. He took a minute and more out of most of them.

Interesting too that Evans had a blinder. He was (IIRC) over a minute away from 1st place at the bottom of the final climb but nailed it.

It's nowhere near over this.


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Nibali 4th, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. I didn't see it but someone tell me his tt'ing style has improved out of sight?


 
Yep, he has been focusing on his TTing - he beat Contador earlier this season IIRC, can't remember which race but fairly sure he did...


----------



## lukesdad (11 May 2013)

Evans 2nd, well feck me ! Wanna give me odds for that podium in July Hont or smutchers ?


----------



## montage (11 May 2013)

Wiggo lost that in the first half of the TT.
From the halfway point he put about 40 seconds into Dowsett, more into Nibali. The form is there, and Brailsford is saying Wiggo is putting out bigger numbers than he was in the Tour. If he stops riding downhills like my gran he can still win this giro


----------



## Noodley (11 May 2013)

montage said:


> Brailsford is saying Wiggo is putting out bigger numbers than he was in the Tour


 
He may very well be, but he's ridden like a doofus so far. Maybe Brailsford need a doofus-scale as well?


----------



## lukesdad (11 May 2013)

montage said:


> Wiggo lost that in the first half of the TT.
> From the halfway point he put about 40 seconds into Dowsett, more into Nibali. The form is there, and Brailsford is saying Wiggo is putting out bigger numbers than he was in the Tour. If he stops riding downhills like my gran he can still win this giro


If its sunny and warm wiggo will win. If its cold and wet he won't


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (11 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Yep, he has been focusing on his TTing - he beat Contador earlier this season IIRC, can't remember which race but fairly sure he did...


Think it was Tirreno Adriatico on the final stage. It was the individual TT - interestingly Froome beat him though (TT not overall).


----------



## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

Fark this Di2 balls and racing slicks.

Stick to Good old friction shifters and Marathon +.


----------



## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

montage said:


> Wiggo lost that in the first half of the TT.
> From the halfway point he put about 40 seconds into Dowsett, more into Nibali. The form is there, and Brailsford is saying Wiggo is putting out bigger numbers than he was in the Tour. *If he stops riding downhills like my gran he can still win this giro*


 
It was like watching in slow motion


----------



## smutchin (11 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Evans 2nd, well feck me ! Wanna give me odds for that podium in July Hont or smutchers ?



I'm not revising my opinion of Evans until we see how he gets on in the proper mountains. That's the real test.

Respect due to him though - he's looking in his best shape for over a year.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (12 May 2013)

wiggo has the potential advantage of two team mates in the top ten, climbers both. neither nibali, heysedal, evans or gesinck have even one, so should wiggo and uran/haino find themselves in an elite group with nibali, they can attack him relentlessly. uran and haino are close enough on gc the nibali would have to follow their attacks; he catches up, they stop attacking and when all are back together the next sky rider attacks and so on…


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2013)

alecstilleyedye said:


> wiggo has the potential advantage of two team mates in the top ten, climbers both. neither nibali, heysedal, evans or gesinck have even one, so should wiggo and uran/haino find themselves in an elite group with nibali, they can attack him relentlessly. uran and haino are close enough on gc the nibali would have to follow their attacks; he catches up, they stop attacking and when all are back together the next sky rider attacks and so on…


 
That's pretty much what I already said above...


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

User said:


> I think it was the eurosport commentators that said Evans wanted to do the TDF this year but BMC insisted he do the Giro first and then depending on result possibly the TDF, which at 36 and not looking like the same rider since his TDF win in 2011, I suppose it isn't an unreasonably request from BMC... or maybe this is what Evans needed to kick off his possible final year..



It would be nice to see him go out in a blaze of glory but I still fear he won't be able to compete in the hills. 

The Evans of two years ago wouldn't have been beaten by Nibali in a time trial. Not even a hilly one. The jury is most definitely still out.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2013)

BTW, for those who think Wiggins can't attack, here's what Inner Ring said about yesterday:

"rather than defending his lead for the next two weeks, Wiggins now has to attack. It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds, he went up yesterday’s final climb like a rat up a drainpipe"

Indeed he was second only on the final climb to... Cadel Evans - another rider who 'can't attack'. I'm hoping most of the conventional wisdom doesn't work out for this Giro.


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

Nibali definitely looked done in on that final climb yesterday. Not as badly as Hesjedal but he was fading fast. 

He could pay for that effort today if Sky put the hammer down on the two big climbs. 

What's today's weather forecast?

Edit:


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> those who think Wiggins can't attack...



People actually think that? Blimey.


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Fark this Di2 balls and racing slicks.
> 
> Stick to Good old friction shifters and Marathon +.



Wiggo does use mechanical shifters on his TT bike, for the simple reason that the levers give him a slight extension on his aero bars without breaking the UCI rules.


----------



## thom (12 May 2013)

OK, no point dwelling on the past, there is still a lot of racing left and this is what comes next:







If I was a GC guy feeling sore about losing time, I reckon this would be a good stage to at least try something because of the profile, because of the rest day tomorrow and because I'd like to get to Florence early for a look around.


----------



## rich p (12 May 2013)

He should be feeling happy today...

...Bradley's Wigans I mean


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (12 May 2013)

rich p said:


> He should be feeling happy today...
> 
> ...Bradley's Wigans I mean


 
It crossed my mind yesterday that some boffin in Pinarello probably cries seeing how he throws his bikes into the gutter every second day, and the management sitting there trying to figure out what percentage of the brand value is destroyed by every throw!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2013)

Thinking back to the early stages of the TdF, didn't Sky look like they were a bit rickety on strategy? I know it's not a proper equivalent but, all the same, they didn't finish off too badly in the end. (Just my way of saying I didn't understand what they were doing then and I don't understand now....)


----------



## ColinJ (12 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> It crossed my mind yesterday that some boffin in Pinarello probably cries seeing how he throws his bikes into the gutter every second day, and the management sitting there trying to figure out what percentage of the brand value is destroyed by every throw!


I wondered how many spare bikes they had for him? It would have been ironic if he had trashed the gears on that bike when he threw it down and then needed it later because the second bike developed a problem!


----------



## StuAff (12 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> It crossed my mind yesterday that some boffin in Pinarello probably cries seeing how he throws his bikes into the gutter every second day, and the management sitting there trying to figure out what percentage of the brand value is destroyed by every throw!


Probably upset the guys in Taiwan who actually make the things as well.....


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2013)

Meanwhile, barely 20 miles, in there's a 12 man breakaway 1:30 ahead. Pirazzi, Visconti, Garate, Felline, Chalapud, Pantano, Mestre, Belkov, Golas, Ludvigsson, Proni, Petrov.


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

...and it's raining. That'll be Bradley out of the race then


----------



## Slaav (12 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> ...and it's raining. That'll be Bradley out of the race then


 
From memory (above) there is only one really big long descent and one other proper downhill section? If so, he should not lose too much time as he will have team mates to lead 30yds ahead or even be comfortable enough with views and sight lines to hang in there. Depends on the roads and the degree the groups are spread out I guess.....

Looking forward to TV coverage starting on Sky/Eurosport shortly


----------



## 400bhp (12 May 2013)

Frank, honest comments from Wiggins.

Man, really hope he's in it still at stage 18


----------



## Slaav (12 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Frank, honest comments from Wiggins.
> 
> Man, really hope he's in it still at stage 18


 
Just seen the few words from Wiggo on delay/Sky+:

"Well after the crash the day before, I suppose I descended like a bit of a girl really.... not showing any lack of respects to girls; I have one back at home!" (with quite a smile on his face at the end)

Or very similar - much as many have said on here


----------



## 400bhp (12 May 2013)

Not a Schleck "wahhh, they shouldn't allow descending, it's dangerous...wahh wahh"


----------



## Supersuperleeds (12 May 2013)

Lovely conditions for racing, some poor bugger has a lot of mickling to do later


----------



## theloafer (12 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Lovely conditions for racing, some poor bugger has a lot of mickling to do later


 
I would not send a dog out in that..


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

My live video feed for today is fairly ropey, although I am getting the added benefit of being offered a Russian bride or twelve every so often...


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

Wiggins more than a minute down on Nibali group


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Wiggins more than a minute down on Nibali group


He's being distracted by a Russian bride, a heavily pixellated one.


----------



## themosquitoking (12 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Lovely conditions for racing, some poor bugger has a lot of mickling to do later


Don' they just use new chains every day?


----------



## montage (12 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Wiggins more than a minute down on Nibali group


 
Dropped on a descent... pretty pathetic effort if there are no mitigating circumstances


----------



## jdtate101 (12 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> Just seen the few words from Wiggo on delay/Sky+:
> 
> "Well after the crash the day before, I suppose I descended like a bit of a girl really.... not showing any lack of respects to girls; I have one back at home!" (with quite a smile on his face at the end)
> 
> Or very similar - much as many have said on here


 
He might descent like a girl (in his own words), but I'd bet he's still going a lot faster than I'd be comfortable with.


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

Disappointing news for FDJ fans out there - Jeannesson retired from the Giro today


----------



## jifdave (12 May 2013)

Sky being proper minges today.


----------



## jarlrmai (12 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Don' they just use new chains every day?


 
Probably just cycle through bikes and gear as the conditions dictate, change wheels/ratios etc depending on stage for the premier riders


----------



## themosquitoking (12 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Probably just cycle through bikes and gear as the conditions dictate, change wheels/ratios etc depending on stage for the premier riders


I assumed they'd use new tyres, tubes (if they use them) and chains every day.


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

Wiggins back in with Nibali group


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Hesjedal getting dropped


----------



## jifdave (12 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Hesjedal getting dropped


Wiggins not looking great... not seen uran or henao for a while....

Scarponi looks decsnt again


----------



## montage (12 May 2013)

themosquitoking said:


> Don' they just use new chains every day?


 
I think they have new chains more or less every rest day, so two or three in a GT


----------



## montage (12 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> Wiggins not looking great... not seen uran or henao for a while....
> 
> Scarponi looks decsnt again


 
Wiggo looking pathetic to be honest.


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Hesjedal 2.40, blimey!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 May 2013)

I think Ryders' GC hopes have gone south after today.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 May 2013)

Betancur going for a podium spot, nice one.


----------



## Radchenister (12 May 2013)

Belkov - epic!


----------



## tigger (12 May 2013)

That descending is looking very worrying for Wiggins. I feel a bit sorry for him really, it's beginning to get embarrassing. The weird thing is that I've never seen any sign of descending being an issue for him before? Although we've not seen these conditions for Wiggins since he's been a GC contender. 

However, if he gets a dry period I can't help thinking he's going to smash 'em!


----------



## Noodley (12 May 2013)

Betancur must have thought he had won the stage...


----------



## Radchenister (12 May 2013)

Yep, Betancur - comedy moment, oops .

@tigger ... Wiggo - anti hero, it's the British way  , he's still in 4th.


----------



## accountantpete (12 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Betancur must have thought he had won the stage...


 

I think he must have - there was a look of total bemusement on Pantano's face as Betancur was pumping the air.


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Do you think anyone told him or they just led him into the tent where Belkov was: Poor bugger.


----------



## Radchenister (12 May 2013)

Superbikes at Monza now on Eurosport - Wiggo, how to corner at speed, watch and learn  !


----------



## jarlrmai (12 May 2013)

first get the tyres up to track temperature...


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

Betancur and Pantano are both in my fantasy team, so that's good.


----------



## jowwy (12 May 2013)

wiggins, henao, scarponi and inxhausti are in mine all with good finishes today and gc contenders to boot


----------



## Chris Norton (12 May 2013)

I think wiggo is being overly cautious on the descents. It's like a team TT every stage. That's gotta hurt the domestiques. Are the team sky columbians trying to conserve energy for when the big climbs start? 

Nibs and evens looked a lot more comfortable today whilst descending than Wiggo. 

Great ride by the winner though. Real guts.


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I think Ryders' GC hopes have gone south after today.



"@vaughters: Well, on to plan B in the Giro. Rest on the rest day, then figure out how to liven up the race for the 2nd half."


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@vaughters: Well, on to plan B in the Giro. Rest on the rest day, then figure out how to liven up the race for the 2nd half."


ouch...Ryder has got to feel a wee stab when he reads that.


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Wiggo has got the rest day to get his head together. He finished in a pretty select group, he's still 3rd and I thought he looked better on that final descent. Undoubtedly he's having a crisis of confidence downhill but he also doesn't look race sharp. He can only get better, surely?

Hesjedal was a surprise and I guess we'll see on Tuesday whether Evans, Gesink and Scarponi are in form. Santambrogio is hovering too.

Lovely stuff.


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Hesjedal was a surprise



Not a huge one though. He's been looking pretty ropey for much of the early part of the season. It was only very recently, eg at LBL, that he's started to show some form... turns out he was flattering to deceive. 

Mind you, Evans has also been riding like a dog so far this year. Until now...



> we'll see on Tuesday whether Evans, Gesink and Scarponi are in form. Santambrogio is hovering too.



Santambrogio has had a good season so far and shown lots of promise. He could be an outside bet for a podium place (or top ten, at least). More likely than Gesink, I reckon. And I hope he does better than the nobber Scarponi.


----------



## rich p (12 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Santambrogio has had a good season so far and shown lots of promise. He could be an outside bet for a podium place (or top ten, at least). More likely than Gesink, I reckon. And I hope he does better than the nobber Scarponi.


 Unless he gets busted for being part of the Mantova doping inquiry


----------



## smutchin (12 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Unless he gets busted for being part of the Mantova doping inquiry



Oh, one of those, is he? Hmph. Suddenly I've gone right off him... 

Have to admit I've not been following the case too closely. Anyone else on the Mantova shortlist riding in the Giro? I know about Cunego and Ballan but obviously they aren't there.


----------



## tigger (12 May 2013)

User said:


> has anyone got a weather forcast for Tuesdays stage...



Currently looking sunny. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/.../treviso-italy#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1368486000


----------



## rich p (12 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Oh, one of those, is he? Hmph. Suddenly I've gone right off him...
> 
> Have to admit I've not been following the case too closely. Anyone else on the Mantova shortlist riding in the Giro? I know about Cunego and Ballan but obviously they aren't there.


Here's a list from a post I made elsewhere a week or so ago...

Bal_lan (BMC), Cunego (Lampre-ISD), Bandiera (Omega-Quick Step), Bruseghin (Movistar), Da Dalto (Liquigas-Cannondale), Mori (Lampre-ISD), Mori (formerly of Lampre) Pietropolli (Lampre-ISD), Ponzi (Astana), Santambrogio (BMC) and Michael Rasmussen (Christina Watches). Others on the list are Lampre-ISD manager Beppe Saronni, directeurs sportifs Fabrizio Bontempi and Maurizio Piovani, and former professional Mariano Piccoli._
_ are linked to Mantova_

So, Pietropolli is the only other one I can see.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (12 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> he's still 3rd ....
> Lovely stuff.


Except he's 4th.


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Except he's 4th.


I knew that


----------



## tigger (12 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> I knew that



Yep, Gesink don't count?!


----------



## Crackle (12 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Yep, Gesink don't count?!


I blancoed him.


----------



## tigger (12 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> I blancoed him.



You raboblanked him?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2013)

tigger said:


> Yep, Gesink don't count?!


Every time he goes downhill he gets that Gesinking feeling....

Will someone remind me what race it was earlier this year when BW raced downhill like a demon?


----------



## lukesdad (12 May 2013)

tigger said:


> That descending is looking very worrying for Wiggins. I feel a bit sorry for him really, it's beginning to get embarrassing. The weird thing is that I've never seen any sign of descending being an issue for him before? Although we've not seen these conditions for Wiggins since he's been a GC contender.
> 
> However, if he gets a dry period I can't help thinking he's going to smash 'em!


I seem to remember Froome is just as bad at descending. Forget ther marginal gains Brailsford and concentrate on the bl**dy great big ones !


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I seem to remember Froome is just as bad at descending. Forget ther marginal gains Brailsford and concentrate on the bl**dy great big ones !


A confident Brad is a very good descender. At the moment, though, he clearly isn't feeling where the limit is. There's not much that DB or the team psychologist can do, he'll just have to ride himself back into it.


----------



## lukesdad (12 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> A confident Brad is a very good descender. At the moment, though, he clearly isn't feeling where the limit is. There's not much that DB or the team psychologist can do, he'll just have to ride himself back into it.


----------



## 400bhp (12 May 2013)

Pirazzi and chalapud - brilliant!


----------



## thom (12 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Every time he goes downhill he gets that Gesinking feeling....
> 
> Will someone remind me what race it was earlier this year when BW raced downhill like a demon?


First stage of Volto a Catalunya ? It was dry and he knew the roads, which were wide with sweeping bends, so no hairpins.
He lost time on the climbs in the days that followed.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 May 2013)

thom said:


> First stage of Volto a Catalunya ? It was dry and he knew the roads. And he lost time on the climbs in the days that followed.


That's the one! But compare then and now!


----------



## rich p (13 May 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> That's the one! But compare then and now!


But as Thom pointed out - it was dry!
At the moment he'd come a poor 4th in a downhill race against Andy Schleck, Levi Leipheimer and my granny.


----------



## theclaud (13 May 2013)

rich p said:


> At the moment he'd come a poor 4th in a downhill race against Andy Schleck, Levi Leipheimer *and my granny.*



He'd probably just about beat @pubrunner, though...


----------



## woohoo (13 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I seem to remember Froome is just as bad at descending. Forget ther marginal gains Brailsford and concentrate on the bl**dy great big ones !


Agreed. The current Wiggins and last year's Froome descending isn't terrific but it's worth remembering that Nibali is a great bike handler and often pulls out some impressive time gaps on the descents

(Wiggins' first fall looked very painful. The Armstrong comment about it (if I'm permitted to use the name  ) seemed appropriate.)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (13 May 2013)

Eddy Merckx has said (in translation from the Flemish in _Het Nieuwsblad_):

"It is incomprehensible how Wiggins descends... I never saw it before and have never experienced that myself. I do not know why he suddenly descends so bad. He's ridden the past few days like a novice on the downhills. I think there is something wrong with his material, he has no confidence."


----------



## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

May as well log Armstrong's comments to save people searching for them:

“Heard the press room at the Giro ‘cheered’ when Wiggins crashed. If true that is completely f’d,”

“I’d like to see every 1 of those journos mount up and scream down a slick/steep downhill at upwards of 50mph.”


----------



## thom (13 May 2013)

Fighting talk from Brailsford :
“Today was interesting to see that when Bradley was coming back on they were riding hard but then they isolated Vincenzo in the end and I think they’ll have to have a look at that because it could leave the opportunities open to attack, which is what we’re going to do.”​Fingers crossed for some more fireworks tomorrow : ​ 





​ 


​The first stage classified as mountainous, with an interesting uphill finish : 1200 m gained over 22km gives an OK average overall but it looks to average a meaty 8 or 9% consistently for the second half which may suit a SKY train to ride hard in the latter parts.​Might they alternatively consider forcing Astana to chase one of Henao or Uran Uran ? ​We shall see something different in the racing for sure, in particular if the descent from Cason di Lanza is dry.​​ 
Edit : we might also see an improvement from Wiggins if as Wegelius is reported to have surmised, he's had something of the bug that Cataldo had in his system.


----------



## Slaav (13 May 2013)

Well here is another 'what if?'

Assuming Wiggins hadn't crashed so heavily and had been able to maintain his 'bottle'; how much stronger would the Sky Team have been and also how much would they have attacked?

Really do not know the answer to that one....


----------



## Peter Armstrong (13 May 2013)

Now the rivals know his weakness they will all attack on the decent, I think Wiggins Achilles heel is well and truly found.


----------



## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Really, what descents are those then?

The next few days it's not looking too bad, if you look over the terrain and weather combinations:

*Tuesday* - Eastern edge of Dolomites
Stage10: High Mountains - dry weather.
*Wednesday* - Eastern edge of Dolomites
Stage11: Medium Mountains - dry weather.
*Thursday* - Bottom Eastern edge of Dolomites
Stage12: Flat (but a few lumps/descents in it) - potentially wet / storms.
*Friday* - Inland of mountains heading towards French Alps
Stage 13: Flat (with just 1 lump and 2 pimples) - potentially wet / storms.

If the form is there, then it's possibly rein it in time, going to be interesting!?
How reliable the weather forecasting is is anyone's guess - I am of course looking at this in terms of limiting potential damage with the wet descending issue.
Edit: I was using Met Office forecasts, they didn't get past Friday.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (13 May 2013)

Wiggins has looked vulnerable going downhill since crashing in heavy rain on Friday and his cautious approach on Saturday may have cost him victory in the time trial
But certainly the big factor is the weather: as soon as it rains, he struggles.This wet weather isn't over and it could get worse as we head into the mountains.

I havnt just copied and pasted that honest!


----------



## Dave Davenport (13 May 2013)

As Wiggins is highly unlikely to be able to attack/drop Nibali on a big climb, I assume Sky will have to try and use the Columbian duo to attack and try to crack him, as he obviously can't afford to let either of them go three or four minutes up the road. I don't really understand how this will benefit Wiggins much though? Plus, is there a danger that they end up dragging Nibali into a tour winning position?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (13 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> Well here is another 'what if?'
> 
> Assuming Wiggins hadn't crashed so heavily and had been able to maintain his 'bottle'; how much stronger would the Sky Team have been and also how much would they have attacked?
> 
> Really do not know the answer to that one....


how about this 'what if' .... Nibbles had not crashed twice how far ahead would he be now ?


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> ...But certainly the big factor is the weather: as soon as it rains, he struggles.This wet weather isn't over and it could get worse as we head into the mountains. I haven't just copied and pasted that honest!


 
Didn't think you did, just trying to point out you need the wet and the descending to fall together for it to be a real issue - admittedly mountain weather is even more changeable than the coastal stuff but so far the weather forecasts I've been scanning have been pretty accurate.


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## Strathlubnaig (13 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Eddy Merckx has said (in translation from the Flemish in _Het Nieuwsblad_):
> 
> "It is incomprehensible how Wiggins descends... I never saw it before and have never experienced that myself. I do not know why he suddenly descends so bad. He's ridden the past few days like a novice on the downhills. I think there is something wrong with his material, he has no confidence."


 
I read that too, what a cracking headline "*Merckx: Wiggins descends like a novice" *Can the Cannibal be wrong ?


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## Peter Armstrong (13 May 2013)

He looked crap decending on the TT tho aswell when it was dry dont you think?


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## thom (13 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> As Wiggins is highly unlikely to be able to attack/drop Nibali on a big climb, I assume Sky will have to try and use the Columbian duo to attack and try to crack him, as he obviously can't afford to let either of them go three or four minutes up the road. I don't really understand how this will benefit Wiggins much though? Plus, is there a danger that they end up dragging Nibali into a tour winning position?


Stage 17, TdF last year - Froome and Wiggins dropped Nibali.
If the Columbiana get a minute advantage over Nibali on a climb, their time deficit can be less than a minute or even become a virtual pink time surplus. Nibali will have to use his team to defend against this, making Nibali more isolated and vulnerable to attacks from the likes of Gesink and Cadel Evans in addition to Wiggins.
The point is to put him under pressure. If you do it enough, he or his team will slip up.
Henao or Uran Uran are unlikely to attack in a way that takes Nibali with them but leads Wiggins not able to just follow Nibali's wheel.


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## Crackle (13 May 2013)

thom said:


> Fighting talk from Brailsford :
> “Today was interesting to see that when Bradley was coming back on they were riding hard but then they isolated Vincenzo in the end and I think they’ll have to have a look at that because it could leave the opportunities open to attack, which is what we’re going to do.”​Fingers crossed for some more fireworks tomorrow : ​
> The first stage classified as mountainous, with an interesting uphill finish : 1200 m gained over 22km gives an OK average overall but it looks to average a meaty 8 or 9% consistently for the second half which may suit a SKY train to ride hard in the latter parts.​Might they alternatively consider forcing Astana to chase one of Henao or Uran Uran ? ​We shall see something different in the racing for sure, in particular if the descent from Cason di Lanza is dry.​​
> Edit : we might also see an improvement from Wiggins if as Wegelius is reported to have surmised, he's had something of the bug that Cataldo had in his system.


 
All depends on that descent doesn't it. If he's still there and not chasing to get back on for the final climb then we could see some fireworks. If you noticed yesterday, Nibbles yelled at his last lieutenant on the final climb (who was it?), to back off the pace a bit.

We've then got a week of variable stages, so it really does depend on whether Wiggins has got his head back in this race.


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> He looked crap decending on the TT tho as well when it was dry dont you think?


 
Perhaps but he was never down as a descender and still got second after a bike change; he has had a few rattling days and was not quite with it but it wasn't terrible.

The descending is not the only variable and those roads the other day were not just wet, they were soapy / greasy, beyond controllable, almost like black ice, as the clip of the pedestrian slipping over and the good descenders also crashing demonstrated IMO.

Admittedly I am speaking as a hopeful fan-boy here but also aiming to see the positive possibilities; I'm not ready to write our man off yet  .... or is that not the British way!?


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## Strathlubnaig (13 May 2013)

Poor old Wiggins getting no respect right now. Read on Twitter that "suggestion going round that Wiggo was late down for the team dinner because the hotel stairs had just been washed" Hope he keeps his sense of humour.


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## ayceejay (13 May 2013)

Not sure what is the "British Way" but it is certainly the way of the media to create Messiah's so that they become an easy target when it comes to crucifixion time. Wiggins is expected to win every time he pulls on his black socks and if he doesn't win he becomes a loser not 2nd or 4th a LOSER, no wonder he has a bristling attitude towards journo's.


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## smutchin (13 May 2013)

thom said:


> The point is to put him under pressure. If you do it enough, he or his team will slip up.


 
Indeed. We've yet to see how strong Nibali's new team really are. On paper, at least, it looks a hell of a lot stronger than the Liquigas team he took to the TdF last year, but it remains to be seen if they can match the might of the Team Sky Mountain Express when it gets up a head of steam.

Definitely advantage Nibali at the moment, but the real race has barely started yet - there's still the best part of two weeks to go...

It'll only take one day of everything falling into place for Sky for the whole complexion of the race to change dramatically.


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## jowwy (13 May 2013)

I can see total sky domination in the mountains - Christian Knees and Sitsou on the front turning on the power and dropping the astana team like hot cakes out the back of the peleton, leaving old nibs to fend for himself - he certainly didnt have many of his team left with him yesterday at the finish line

were as team sky had 3 guys still there with wiggo - time to put some coal on that there train and see the steam train go


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## Peter Armstrong (13 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Perhaps but he was never down as a descender and still got second after a bike change; he has had a few rattling days and was not quite with it but it wasn't terrible.
> 
> The descending is not the only variable and those roads the other day were not just wet, they were soapy / greasy, beyond controllable, almost like black ice, as the clip of the pedestrian slipping over and the good descenders also crashing demonstrated IMO.
> 
> Admittedly I am speaking as a hopeful fan-boy here but also aiming to see the positive possibilities; I'm not ready to write our man off yet  .... or is that not the British way!?


 
Even i can decend better than that!


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

That we aren't able to judge  - I think many a critic would be nursing cuts and bruises and likely wouldn't have finished.


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## The Couch (13 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> If you noticed yesterday, Nibbles yelled at his last lieutenant on the final climb (who was it?), to back off the pace a bit.


 
It was Kangert (who also has a heck of TT the day before), he should actually be able to hold out pretty far in the mountains as well (but of course he's no Sky-Colombian duo)


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## The Couch (13 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Eddy Merckx has said (in translation from the Flemish in _Het Nieuwsblad_) ...


 
Nice to see you reading some Flemish journals


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## Peter Armstrong (13 May 2013)

This is how I decend ha ha http://app.strava.com/segments/3996894


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## Zofo (13 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> That we aren't able to judge  - I think many a critic would be nursing cuts and bruises and likely wouldn't have finished.


 
Agreed, there's a lot of armchair heroes around, all talking cobblers as usual. Wiggo would have won the TT without the puncture.


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Was it wet Mr Armstrong  ... straight line I notice  !?


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## Zofo (13 May 2013)

I'm as quick as Nibali--in a straight line down hill


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## smutchin (13 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> It was Kangert (who also has a heck of TT the day before), he should actually be able to hold out pretty far in the mountains as well (but of course he's no Sky-Colombian duo)


 
What do we make of Kangert? I thought he was supposed to be a TT specialist and not much else, so was slightly surprised to see him in the Astana team for the Giro, but it looks like he has a bit more to his game than that. I vaguely remember him being touted as a wonderkid a few years ago but then he seemed to disappear completely (a brief bit of googling suggests this was because he was out for a long period due to injury). What is his climbing like? Anyone know?

Edit: Answering my own question: I see he finished 26th overall in last year's Giro (a total of about one minute slower than Sandy Casar), so he must be fairly decent in the mountains.


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## Slaav (13 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> how about this 'what if' .... Nibbles had not crashed twice how far ahead would he be now ?


 
Now that is a very fair point! HAdn't looked at it like that....

On the other hand though, if he didn't attack and take the chances he takes - giving him his undoubted speed - he would not have crashed twice 

Personally, I think it needs to be like motorbikes/Moto GP etc, if you don't have the odd or even regular offs, then you simply aren't pushing hard enough 

OUCH!


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Podcast on here: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28850_8710651,00.html


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## Zofo (13 May 2013)

Looking forward to stage 10, 21.4km of climbing including 1.5km at 20% near the end --ouch!


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG3pr_O342k


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## ColinJ (13 May 2013)

Ooh - _nice -_ some Wiggo-worrying downhill, and leg-heart-and-lung-destroying uphill! 

(Disk brakes on the bike - I fancy some for wet weather rides.)


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

From the horse's mouth:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wig...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0


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## thom (13 May 2013)

So Brad here seems remarkably unperturbed by his ill fortune and progress in the link below - kind of makes me optimistic that his head is in a good place overall and that his nervousness on the descents is addressable.

You may need to cut & paste it direct to a browser to work :
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/eurosport/?title=Wiggins reviews first week: 'I descended like a girl'&dashboard=giro-d-italia&id=giro-ditalia-wiggins-reviews-first-070828348&yr=2013


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## AndyRM (13 May 2013)

For those of a Twitter persuasion, @ukcyclingexpert is worth a follow.


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## rich p (13 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> From the horse's mouth:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wig...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0


This is the sort of stuff that I just don't get...

_"The TT didn't go to plan. I was dithering yesterday and thinking of other things. But physically I'm fine and that meant I also let it go a little. I'm capable of doing it when I want to but it's a question of commitment sometimes"_

This is supposedly his main aim in racing this year and he's a well-paid professional.


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Yep, it is an odd comment, 'just a job' perspective taken too far the other way past the keeping it grounded base line.


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## Zofo (13 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> View:
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG3pr_O342k




Respect to this guy---climbing AND talking at over 20%,nice one whoever you are. Cool bike as well !


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## VamP (13 May 2013)

rich p said:


> This is the sort of stuff that I just don't get...
> 
> _"The TT didn't go to plan. I was dithering yesterday and thinking of other things. But physically I'm fine and that meant I also let it go a little. I'm capable of doing it when I want to but it's a question of commitment sometimes"_
> 
> This is supposedly his main aim in racing this year and he's a well-paid professional.


 

I think it's an honest assessment. Testing is all about concentration. That Wiggins is one of the best in the world in this discipline tells us that his standard for being on the ball mentally is way higher than most professional cyclists, and certainly us debating this here. That he admits to a less then perfect day from this point of view, on a TT course that doesn't really play to his strengths, and still comes second despite puncturing... 

He's getting a lot of stick this year. I remember last time I came off on wet tarmac at 35mph it took me over an hour before I picked myself up again. Not all falls are without consequences - sometimes it hurts, sometimes it messes with your mind. Sometimes you're reminded of people who crashed and never got up again. We had one such anniversary a few days ago.


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## Radchenister (13 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> Respect to this guy---climbing AND talking at over 20%,nice one whoever you are. Cool bike as well !


 
Daniel Lloyd, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lloyd_(cyclist) I like him a lot as a pro' turned journo (/ assistant DS if you read link) , although it has been said that he was separated at birth from the guy who did the Krypton Factor (Gordon Burns).


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## ColinJ (13 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Daniel Lloyd, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lloyd_(cyclist) I like him a lot as a pro' turned journo, although he has been said that *he was separated at birth from the guy who did the Krypton Factor (Gordon Burns).*


Yes, he does look like him - _that's_ who I was trying to remember!


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## deptfordmarmoset (13 May 2013)

VamP said:


> I think it's an honest assessment. Testing is all about concentration. That Wiggins is one of the best in the world in this discipline tells us that his standard for being on the ball mentally is way higher than most professional cyclists, and certainly us debating this here. That he admits to a less then perfect day from this point of view, on a TT course that doesn't really play to his strengths, and still comes second despite puncturing...
> 
> He's getting a lot of stick this year. I remember last time I came off on wet tarmac at 35mph it took me over an hour before I picked myself up again. Not all falls are without consequences - sometimes it hurts, sometimes it messes with your mind. Sometimes you're reminded of people who crashed and never got up again. We had one such anniversary a few days ago.


I'd agree with that. It's a piece of self-criticism and it's better that he remains fully aware of where he's not at his optimum. And, after all, it's not like he's languishing in the peloton - with the problems he's had, he's still 4th in the GC. He's also admitting to letting his mind wander in a stage of the last TdF and, while it sounded almost like casual carelessness, it didn't stop him winning the tour.

The bit that's puzzling me is that, though his demeanour is confident, he's riding as though he can't trust the road underneath him. Bike changes and bruises won't have helped, of course, but he's going to have to get his feel for the road back in the race pretty sharpish.


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## thom (13 May 2013)

VamP said:


> He's getting a lot of stick this year. I remember last time I came off on wet tarmac at 35mph it took me over an hour before I picked myself up again. Not all falls are without consequences - sometimes it hurts, sometimes it messes with your mind. Sometimes you're reminded of people who crashed and never got up again. We had one such anniversary a few days ago.


Re. the stick, I'd give him some regarding the fact that he's enables question marks over Froome's tour preparations, despite the fact Froome is pretty much winning everything he has been asked to and Wiggins hasn't really won anything.
I'd also give stick to the people who seemed to ignore his weaknesses and put him down as favourite for the Giro, inspite of Nibali's form and the fact the Giro parcours is less suitable for him than last year's tour and as we've seen, that surviving certain racing situations requires luck as well as judgement.
If he goes on to win (and I hope he does) it shall be a truly remarkable achievement.


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## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Who said something about retaining a sense of humour?

I won't waffle on, just a few cliches ... fuss about nothing ... fills column inches ... pinch of salt ... perhaps they should stop interviewing him as he is prone to the odd dig or wind up?

Thankfully we can get back to the here and now as the race is back on today  .


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Was it wet Mr Armstrong  ... straight line I notice  !?


 
No, its a big right hander, and no it was wet, no i mean icy, icy with bannana peels on.


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## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Looked you up on another of your routes - 234th on a recent hill climb, Wiggo will need to send the Colombians out with you so you can give them improvement tips there as well .


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Looked you up on another of your routes - 234th on a recent hill climb, Wiggo will need to send the Colombians out with you so you can give them improvement tips there as well .


 
Ha Ha I never said I could climb!


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## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Dope, there was I thinking you were comparing yourself to the pro's  - a jumping to critical conclusion faux-pas of journoesque proportions.


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## Zofo (14 May 2013)

Tweet from UK Cycling Expert :-
." there is also a ladies Giro of Italy, but it is held on flat roads so that the girls are not exposed to dangerous down hill racing .."


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> Tweet from UK Cycling Expert :-
> ." there is also a ladies Giro of Italy, but it is held on flat roads so that the girls are not exposed to dangerous down hill racing .."


 
Wow is that serious?


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## Zofo (14 May 2013)

Don't panick PA, that was aimed at Wiggo


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

"I descended like a bit of a girl after the crash," he told Cycling Weekly


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## Zofo (14 May 2013)

Ok chaps, I've got Scarponi at 25/1 each way bet (top3 finish GC)
Will I collect, or not ?


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## rich p (14 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> Ok chaps, I've got Scarponi at 25/1 each way bet (top3 finish GC)
> Will I collect, or not ?


Depends if the doping git gets busted again.
But my guess, if he doesn't, is that he'll get dropped on the toughest climbs


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## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Just to remind people of the dangers of crashing on descents (from Cyclingnews's Giro shorts for today):

"Following a crash during Sunday's stage 9, Angel Vicioso Arcos (Katusha) was taken to the Careggi hospital for further investigation after the finish.
The clinical and instrumental examination showed a fracture of the second finger of his left hand, a fracture of two ribs (left hemithorax), a fracture of the upper angle of his right shoulder blade, splenic contusion and left renal contusion.
Vicioso was hospitalized so that doctors could keep him under observation."

If his spleen had been punctured, he could have died. My dad almost died of the same thing when he was young...


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## Buddfox (14 May 2013)

Looking forward to today's stage primarily due to the mountain top finish. Following on from the Vuelta last year and as a general observation, Sky have sometimes seemed not so capable of picking up bonus seconds for stage wins. If Wiggo really is on form, picking up a win today would lay down a really strong marker coming off the rest day. It's not the most important stage by a long shot, but it would be a boost if he was able to claw back a bit of time.


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## Crackle (14 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> Ok chaps, I've got Scarponi at 25/1 each way bet (top3 finish GC)
> Will I collect, or not ?


Unlike Rich, I reckon you've got a fair chance with that. Famous last words.


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## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Twitter stage - '@wiggo, my Gran descends better!' hasn't made the cut  :


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oy7RL11Z1U


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## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Unlike Rich, I reckon you've got a fair chance with that. Famous last words.


 
Nah, he'll go backwards. Probably blow up on stage 18 TT too.


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## Crackle (14 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Nah, he'll go backwards. Probably blow up on stage 18 TT too.


He's got a good record in the Giro. He may not be on the same 'vitamins' he used to use though, besides, he just has to go less backwards than everyone else.


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## thom (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Just to remind people of the dangers of crashing on descents (from Cyclingnews's Giro shorts for today):
> ...
> If his spleen had been punctured, he could have died. My dad almost died of the same thing when he was young...


Of course there's Wouter Weylandts too, who did die 2 years ago, descending a dry road when he was looking to just ride to the finish of a stage.


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## rich p (14 May 2013)

Yes, I appreciate that it's a dangerous job, but that's the job innit?
FWIW, I am still occasionally haunted by seeing Weylandts die on screen that day.

edit - maybe having kids and a wife and being older makes you less 'immortal' between the ears.


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## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

.... you re sposed to have something between your ears !


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## smutchin (14 May 2013)

I had a front tyre blowout on a steep descent at something like 35mph on my commute this morning. I managed to stay on the bike but it was a wee bit terrifying. Hitting tarmac at that speed with only a thin layer of lycra for protection is not my idea of fun.


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## thom (14 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Yes, I appreciate that it's a dangerous job, but that's the job innit?
> FWIW, I am still occasionally haunted by seeing Weylandts die on screen that day.
> 
> edit - maybe having kids and a wife and being older makes you less 'immortal' between the ears.


The thing I found most odd about that stage wasn't so much Brad's descending in extremis. It was afterwards with the shots of him on the flatter section when Henao & Uran Uran had dropped back to help him recover. He was still dropping off the back of them and not really chasing in anger, as if hurt. Injuries were later denied so it seemed like a bunch of seconds went begging.

Anyway, I shall be firmly re-ensconced in my armchair later today, ready to pronounce on the sporting weaknesses of all and sundry who as much as look at a bicycle...


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## rich p (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> The thing I found most odd about that stage wasn't so much Brad's descending in extremis. It was afterwards with the shots of him on the flatter section when Henao & Uran Uran had dropped back to help him recover. He was still dropping off the back of them and not really chasing in anger, as if hurt. Injuries were later denied so it seemed like a bunch of seconds went begging.
> 
> Anyway, I shall be firmly re-ensconced in my armchair later today, ready to pronounce on the sporting weaknesses of all and sundry who as much as look at a bicycle...


My original post was more in puzzlement. Not his lack of bottle on the descents but the phrase he used, " I can do it but sometimes I lack commitment"
Maybe it was lost in translation - anyway I hope he bags it today.


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## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> I had a front tyre blowout on a steep descent at something like 35mph on my commute this morning. I managed to stay on the bike but it was a wee bit terrifying. Hitting tarmac at that speed with only a thin layer of lycra for protection is not my idea of fun.


 
Pfft - steep descent and doing 35 mph. Were you descending like a gir..oh hang on...


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

Never mind Wiggo, what about Thor? Big day for him today if he's got the legs and is serious about defending the crown.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Never mind Wiggo, what about Thor? Big day for him today if he's got the legs and is serious about defending the crown.


No need to worry about Wiggo, no matter how he gets on, he's already won the Girlo d'Italia.


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## thom (14 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Never mind Wiggo, what about Thor? Big day for him today if he's got the legs and is serious about defending the crown.


Thor, as in Hushovd / God of Thunder ?
Hushovd is over in California but the thunder was certainly around the Italian racing.



deptfordmarmoset said:


> No need to worry about Wiggo, no matter how he gets on, he's already won the Girlo d'Italia.


This is all either totally over my head or I've entered a parallel universe


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> This is all either totally over my head or I've entered a parallel universe


See post #1018


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> Thor, as in Hushovd / God of Thunder ?
> Hushovd is over in California but the thunder was certainly around the Italian racing.
> 
> 
> This is all either totally over my head or I've entered a parallel universe


 

I have a fuzzy head today 

What I meant to say, as would have been apparent to anyone with half a brain, was Ryder (obvious innit)


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## thom (14 May 2013)

VamP said:


> I have a fuzzy head today
> 
> What I meant to say, as would have been apparent to anyone with half a brain, was Ryder (obvious innit)


Actually, yes you're right there. My mind slipped into visions of Nordic weather gods with crowns. Obviously the UCI requires him to have a helmet, not a crown:


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## smutchin (14 May 2013)

I wouldn't put it past Thor to pop over to ride the Giro stage before heading back to California in time for the start there. You'll never hear girly excuses from him!


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> Actually, yes you're right there. My mind slipped into visions of Nordic weather gods with crowns. Obviously the UCI requires him to have a helmet, not a crown:


 

Apparently he's lethal when he puts the hammer down


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## thom (14 May 2013)

Twitter highlights :

In today's break at 1.40:
Dekker, Rodriguez (AND), Modolo, Tjallingii, Viviani, Brutt, Dehaes, Pauwels, Machado, Popovych, Bennati, Ligthart, Millar and Gatto.

Quintero, one of the Columbians has retired with an ankle injury and David Walsh, embedded with SKY, says get your popcorn ready because they don't believe in defending their collective top 10 placings and will make it hard...:

"If I tweet about Sky, it is because I have some insight to offer. Today, with two cat one climbs, there will be no wait-and-see approach."


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

Two Garmin Sharp riders in the break. If Thor has it, he'll bring it


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## montage (14 May 2013)

Viviani in the break on a mountain stage? Is he suicidel?


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## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

The whole break is suicidal today.


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## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The whole break is suicidal today.


Although 14 guys is a sizeable break, maybe if they work sensibly together they can make a go of it. Or not.


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## thom (14 May 2013)

montage said:


> Viviani in the break on a mountain stage? Is he suicidel?


Points classification probably - intermediate sprint at 103 km.

Edit : I think this is the backdrop to today's finish :


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

The pace of the break in the first hour of cca 50 km/h is there to wear down the Astana chasers, so that someone (Thor) can attack Nibbles later. Maybe. Or maybe they are just feeling suicidal.


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## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

I would love to see Millar take a stage like last years TdF. But I am not putting a bet on him.


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Is this link allowed to be advetised?

http://www.time4tv.com/2011/09/british-eurosport.html


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Is this link allowed to be advetised?
> 
> http://www.time4tv.com/2011/09/british-eurosport.html


Don't see why not, there's a sticky with live stream addresses at the top of the Pro Cycling forum.


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## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Aru dropped. Sky putting the hammer on Astana already.


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## smutchin (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> Quintero, one of the Columbians has retired


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## VamP (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Aru dropped. Sky putting the hammer on Astana already.


 
Thor's hammer?


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## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Team Sky have six riders up front of the bunch now, including *Sir Bradley Wiggins,* and they're really putting the hammer down as the continue their ascent. Their tactics seem to be workings, as the peloton is getting stretched, although *Vincenzo Nibali,* in the pink leader's jersey, and *Cadel Evans,* who is second overall, are hovering just behind Wiggins at the moment.


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## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Nibali develops a psychological issue  !


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Flip me, that is one hell of a pace they're setting.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Ryder suffering again.


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

Looks like like Thor doesn't have it


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

There's a really small group containing the favourites already now - only 25 or so (6 of them from Team Sky!). The final climb is going to be really selective.


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Giro over for Ryder I'm afraid, that's one too many Jour sans already.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> There's a really small group containing the favourites already now - only 25 or so (6 of them from Team Sky!). The final climb is going to be really selective.


 
Cuddles still in there too!


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Although he might be getting back. Either way he will lose a bundle if it kicks off on the final climb.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Although he might be getting back. Either way he will lose a bundle if it kicks off on the final climb.


 
I think so. I don't think it's going to help him much to get back in the group even if he can recover on the descent.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Giro over for Ryder I'm afraid, that's one too many Jour sans already.


He is really toiling. Maybe he has Wiggins' bug now. What are the odds he DNS tomorrow ?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

holy mackinaw, Sky lost a rider oot the back ! Better change his batteries quickly.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

I hope Sky aren't using up their riders too early - Cataldo is done for and they've dropped Zandio too. And there's still another huge climb to come...

Edit: Kelly just said Henao isn't in the group either, which is a bit alarming. Or not in the train, at least - he might be hidden further back in the group.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

Does anyone know how narrow the roads are over the top of the hill?


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> I hope Sky aren't using up their riders too early - Cataldo is done for and they've dropped Zandio too. And there's still another huge climb to come...
> 
> Edit: Kelly just said Henao isn't in the group either, which is a bit alarming. Or not in the train, at least - he might be hidden further back in the group.



I thought Henao was sitting in behind Suitsov.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Yep, Henao, Uran and Suitsou are all still with Wiggins.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Let's see what Nibali does on the descent... it's very very twisty.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

beastie said:


> I thought Henao was sitting in behind Suitsov.


 
I assumed that was Henao too but I'm not sure.

As predictably as Sky setting the pace on the climb, Nibz is attacking on the descent. Excellent!


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yep, Henao, Uran and Suitsou are all still with Wiggins.


 
Sean Kelly clearly having an attack of the Liggetts.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Theres a few wet patches on the descent, Wiggins better get his granny legs on again.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Sky just following Nibali's line downhill...


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Working here, so not watching closely ... who's in the tight descending group - Sky are right on it aren't they?

Updates from the eagle eyed folks appreciated  .


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sean Kelly clearly having an attack of the Liggetts.


CN live feed has Henao dropped and Uran, Wiggins, Cataldo and Siutsou still up front.


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

What a lovely part of the world. That descent looks ace.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

Yes, there are three Sky men immediately behind Nibali and Kangert. Henao isn't 'dropped' - he's just a few men back. Came over the top a couple of seconds behind the other Sky riders.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yes, there are three Sky men immediately behind Nibali and Kangert. Henao isn't 'dropped' - he's just a few men back. Came over the top a couple of seconds behind the other Sky riders.


just quoting the CN feed mate.


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

Cycling news reporting Henao as dropped too


----------



## Crackle (14 May 2013)

He is


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

Sky's twitter feed is reporting Cataldo, Uran & Wiggins in with Nibali at the moment.

edit - given the size of the roads, it is possible Henao had a mechanical that wasn't shown on TV. It would take a good while for any team cars to catch up as getting past the riders is nigh on impossible.


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Sky must be planning an attack on the final climb after riding hard for the whole climb, but by whom? There has been so much more action in the first week of this Giro than in the whole tour last year that it is easy to forget that the decisive stages are still to come. The last week will be massive.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Eurosport just pointing out the danger of getting clotheslined by those wires between the posts, dodgy right enough !!


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

If they had to make every potential hazard on a downhill safe, then that'd be the end of downhill sections  .


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Sky must be planning an attack on the final climb after riding hard for the whole climb, but by whom?


They will do it as is there trademark, by riding a consistent tempo in a train. Nothing explosive, just long and difficult.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

OUCH!
*Franco Pellizotti* makes a mistake on a tight 90 degree bend, hitting the deck and dropping into a ditch under a wooden fence. The Italian gets back on his bike and continues along the descent - but what will that do to his confidence?


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

wow - 5 SKY guys in there....


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Brian Smith saying "Let the Sky Columbian's lose on the final climb i say...Wiggo to follow Nibal"

I think he meant to say "loose"


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

I can't watch it, but it sounds like Wiggins was not descending like a girl today?


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> OUCH!
> *Franco Pellizotti* makes a mistake on a tight 90 degree bend, hitting the deck and dropping into a ditch under a wooden fence. The Italian gets back on his bike and continues along the descent - but what will that do to his confidence?


 
He's a pocket-sized Italian rather than a lanky streak of Australo-Belgian Brit. When it comes to descending, they don't know the meaning of fear.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

VamP said:


> I can't watch it, but it sounds like Wiggins was not descending like a girl today?


It's not raining.


----------



## Crackle (14 May 2013)

Uran has been sitting at the back of the Sky group: Him to attack?


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> It's not raining.


 
Still to hang with Nibali in full flight...


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's a pocket-sized Italian rather than a lanky streak of Australo-Belgian Brit. When it comes to descending, they don't know the meaning of fear.


 
Nothing glamorous about being an idiot and falling off, ride over the limit and get it wrong, then you gamble on the dice re damage and loss of any advantage gained / potential loss of everything.

Come on Sky, fire off a Colombian rocket and go for a bit of Italian podium glamour  !


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

thom said:


> wow - 5 SKY guys in there....


Sorry, can't count, there are 6 of them...


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Wiggins moved back in the bunch, maybe having bait of a look at the oppo?


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Sky drilling it now, with a lot of options.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Wiggin's doesn't have to be concerned about any sort of descent because it's all uphill now to the finish.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

So, does Evans actually have any team mates anywhere at all ? He does okay for Billy Nomates really.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Kangert's blown!

And so has Atapuma, which is a shame cos I have him in my fantasy team, but hardly surprising - can't imagine many of the Colombian team are used to this kind of pacesetting on the big mountains.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> So, does Evans actually have any team mates anywhere at all ? He does okay for Billy Nomates really.


 
I don't recall him ever having much team support - even when he won the Tour.

Mind you, with team-mates like Tejay, who needs enemies?


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Uran Uran attacks!


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

Uran attacks !


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Uran Uran - whooooosh!


----------



## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

*Vincenzo Nibali* is in about fifth, but *Sir Bradley Wiggins* is towards the back of the pack, maybe 20th or so. But what's this? Team Sky *Rigoberto Uran* has made a bid for glory with 7.5km.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

If that was Froome, we'd all be questioning his loyalty.


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

Uran has 20 secs - having dropped off the back, Agnoli is forced to come back and ride for Nibali


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Can't tell... Has Nibz got anyone left after Agnoli?


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Killer schmiller.


----------



## jifdave (14 May 2013)

Doesnt look like it.... wiggo about 8th wheel. Cadel close by


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)




----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Folk are pulling faces while Uran is looking like he's on a Sunday stroll and pulling ahead.. He must have had his Wheaties this morning.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

That hurts my legs just looking at it.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

"@ukcyclingexpert: 'His name is Rigo and he dances up the climb!' Great old hit by 80s band Uran Uran, arch rivals of Sir Bradley Wiggins-fronted The Jam!"


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Canny of Nibz to go for the bonification.


----------



## jifdave (14 May 2013)

Nibbles all alone....


----------



## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

Ha Ha, anyone see that spectator fall


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Ha Ha, anyone see that spectator fall


He got dropped!


----------



## jifdave (14 May 2013)

Urans in treacle....


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Gesink blown. Brad slipping...


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (14 May 2013)

Uran deserves the stage. Brad is struggling!


----------



## Peter Armstrong (14 May 2013)

"ill just move back slighlty for the .....arrrrrr......"


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

If Nibbles gets the word that Wiggins is falling back a wee bit he may put the hammer down.


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> Urans in treacle....


Yep, that's because he's at the 20% bit.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 May 2013)

Bye Brad


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Cuddles still looking good.


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

Nibali looks really classy


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Wiggins got himself stuck alone, if ever there was a time to dig in.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

Bonifications for Nibali too, in 3rd spot.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

"@Doctor_Hutch: Really didn't expect Evans to have this sort of form. I'd almost written him off as a spent force. Shows what I know. #giro"

Heh. Should have listened to lukesdad.


----------



## thom (14 May 2013)

So Wiggins did at least move up to 3rd place I think.
Chapeau Vincenzo and Cadel.

Edit : correction, Uran 3rd, Brad 4'th by 1 second.


----------



## Dave Davenport (14 May 2013)

Looks like cuddles has finally found his form.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (14 May 2013)

will Brailsford be asking Wiggins and Uran to play rock-paper-scissors tonight ?


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Yep, Nibali looked to have re-hooked his chain on before going for third as well - still a long old slog to go though.


----------



## Radchenister (14 May 2013)

Immediate thoughts are that it has to be dual pronged thinking for a few days yet at team Sky.


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

The other teams would donate a kidney to have that dilemma.


----------



## Get In The Van (14 May 2013)

Offt what a nice problem for Sky to have, Uran should be given free reign to go for it, Brad looks a spent force at the moment, well impressed with Cadel, be interesting to see how he goes on the rest of the mountain stages. Nibali just looks very composed and a class act, his to lose at the moment.


----------



## VamP (14 May 2013)

I am not sure. This steep finish was never going to suit Wiggins, and it is too early to write him off. What SKY do have is options, and two more weeks to keep piling the pressure on.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

That was a great ride by Nibali. Sky clearly tried to put him under maximum pressure, instead he showed Wiggins how to ride these steep climbs. But Wiggins really didn't too badly, considering this was the kind of climb that doesn't suit him, losing only 39 seconds to Nibali. Henao must have been having a bad day but this does mean he can be used to attack later in the race. Evans was impressive again, Hesjedal equally unimpressive.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Nibali is looking in imperious form.

Wonder if Sky are now regretting making Uran and Henao wait for Wiggo the other day - because of the time Uran lost then, Nibali could afford to lose a bit of time to him today so wasn't forced to respond with as much effort as he might have been.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 May 2013)

View: http://youtu.be/iDQhrM1i1b8


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Heh. Should have listened to lukesdad.



Steady on now :-/


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2013)

To put Wiggins's 39 seconds in perspective, Hesjedal lost 20 minutes today...


----------



## rich p (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> To put Wiggins's 39 seconds in perspective, Hesjedal lost 20 minutes today...


Blimey!
Wiggins can't handle the steep stuff but we knew that already. We just hoped that the ITT would have given him enough of a buffer.


----------



## jowwy (14 May 2013)

still plenty of racing left and a tt - nibs also got 2 sky riders to look out for now

who will attack him next


----------



## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

Thought the boys in brown did well today.


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2013)

Bit of a low-key celebration of his win by Betancur today though, compared to his previous win.


----------



## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Bit of a low-key celebration of his win by Betancur today though, compared to his previous win.


 lol


----------



## bainy16 (14 May 2013)

anybody know where to find the highlights?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2013)

bainy16 said:


> anybody know where to find the highlights?


Sky sports 2 are showing them now, Eurosport at 21:15. Myiplayer.com if you haven't got Sky or Eurosport.


----------



## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Looks like cuddles has finally found his form.


 Never underestimate the ability to suffer, Cuddles has it in abundance.


----------



## beastie (14 May 2013)

Good stage that one.


----------



## kedab (14 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Good stage that one.


 I bally well missed it. curse you workplace for actually making me busy today


----------



## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

Great!!! Sky are gonna ATTACK from now on.



Was that a bit of kidology from Nibali "pretending" he had mechanical issues?


----------



## Get In The Van (14 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> To put Wiggins's 39 seconds in perspective, Hesjedal lost 20 minutes today...


 
Woosh! I turned off just after Brad had crossed the line and the top 10 placings went up, that's some amount of time, who'll be top dog now for Garmin? any slower and he would have been passed by the sprinters bus! 

maybe Garmin could help Cadel as BMC are pretty honking on the lumps as well.


----------



## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

Do we think Evans was kind of relegated to the Giro rather than the Tour (Van Garderen in the tour?). Looking bloody good anyway.


----------



## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

Anyone know much about Majka (10th overall)? Finished in Nibali's group.


----------



## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Do we think Evans was kind of relegated to the Giro rather than the Tour (Van Garderen in the tour?). Looking bloody good anyway.


Evans is BMCs only realistic chance in a GT what do you think


----------



## 400bhp (14 May 2013)

I think I agree, but do BMC realise it or can't they see the wood for the trees?


----------



## lukesdad (14 May 2013)

BMC have a TDF winner and a world champion, Tejay will defer, his time may come but I doubt it.


----------



## rich p (14 May 2013)

Declan's rider recognition was píss poor today with little or no help from Kelly.
How the hell he could not distinguish Wiggins from Uran as the 3rd man in the Sky train in relative close-up beats me.


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

Today we have what is described as a ferocious descent. I hope it's dry for Brad's sake.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/giro-ditalia/stage-11
It's also a day to 'Remember the fallen' which is about half the peloton.


----------



## lukesdad (15 May 2013)

Mmm will have to get wifey to record it. Can't miss Wiggos last stand


----------



## Noodley (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Declan's rider recognition was píss poor today with little or no help from Kelly.
> How the hell he could not distinguish Wiggins from Uran as the 3rd man in the Sky train in relative close-up beats me.


 
The TV companies need to sign us up for the sole purpose of identification. "And there is some nobber in black and red, followed by that bloke what fell off yesterday - and I suppose Schleck and Wiggins will be the two blokes shuddering down the hill in the wet at the back"


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

The funniest bit of commentary was at the bottom of the Altopiano del Montasio when they sounded like a couple of blokes having an incoherent chat in the pub.
I could definitely do that job!


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> The funniest bit of commentary was at the bottom of the Altopiano del Montasio when they sounded like a couple of blokes having an incoherent chat in the pub.
> I could definitely do that job!



Was that when they were discussing the translation of "Altopiano" (and, incidentally, getting it very wrong) and "Chiusaforte"? That was hilariously cringeworthy. "Two blokes in the pub" is spot on.


----------



## Peteaud (15 May 2013)

Wiggos new cycle shoes for the downhill bits


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Was that when they were discussing the translation of "Altopiano" (and, incidentally, getting it very wrong) and "Chiusaforte"? That was hilariously cringeworthy. "Two blokes in the pub" is spot on.


That was it! Comic genius!


----------



## aces_up1504 (15 May 2013)

Why dont the riders have numbers as per most every sport to help with ID of the riders?


----------



## lukesdad (15 May 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> Why dont the riders have numbers as per most every sport to help with ID of the riders?


 They do have numbers


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

Back to the plot, today is interesting, I read somewhere it's not a big day in GC terms? 

The media are busy digging at Sir Brad over his 'girl' comment; Radio 2 have reported the 2 minutes as 'not good news' - it's a grey day in the UK so we are all prone to a bit of whinging about it  . 

The weather in the Dolomites might hold up until past the race time. The hill climb is not as nasty as yesterday's but the descent is described as potentially spectacular. 

What happens with the Sky strategy will be interesting, another attack from the Colombian aiming to claw some time back or will energy start being conserved? 

Presume the aim will be to keep it a neutral day for Wiggo perhaps? 

What do people think?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> They do have numbers


 
And what's more, in Sky's case, they have their names on the side of their jerseys. Plus Uran has the most spectacular mullett and looks nothing like Wiggins... apart from that, I totally understand the mistake. 

I was shouting at the screen they got it wrong so often. It seemed quite clear to me that Wiggins was 'hiding' further back (with Henao) and leaving the super-domestiques to drive it for Uran. Where it went wrong, I think, is that Henao was probably supposed to be shepherding Wiggins, which he was for the first part of the last climb, but for once he didn't seem to have his climbing legs on and couldn't keep up, leaving Wiggins on his own as Uran made the planned attack, and Sky didn't have a back-up supporter for Wiggins. That's just the way I saw it though...


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...th-wiggins-and-uran-at-the-giro-d-italia.html

Poker faces all round.  .


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...th-wiggins-and-uran-at-the-giro-d-italia.html
> 
> Poker faces all round.  .


 
This is exactly what Wiggins said before about the TdF. Don't see why it should be different for the Giro.


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

Does appear to be the new regime:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXL3yVu0zTw


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

Here's the Strava segment of today's final climb. I have a funny feeling Signore De Stefano is going to lose his KOM...

http://app.strava.com/segments/1249637


----------



## aces_up1504 (15 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> They do have numbers


 
well in that case no excuse of them to get the names wrong or not be able to find out who is who.

Showing my lack of watching Cycling on TV


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

aces_up1504 said:


> well in that case no excuse of them to get the names wrong or not be able to find out who is who.
> 
> Showing my lack of watching Cycling on TV


The numbers aren't always easy to read so the commentators need to be able to recognise riders as well by their style, physique and appearance or jizz as we birders say.


----------



## VamP (15 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Here's the Strava segment of today's final climb. I have a funny feeling Signore De Stefano is going to lose his KOM...
> 
> http://app.strava.com/segments/1249637


 
I am not sure. That time is the equivalent of doing three Box Hills in a row in a 6 minute time roughly. That's not bad TBH, and throw in the fact that not many of the pro peloton upload to Strava - he might just hang in there...


----------



## 400bhp (15 May 2013)

The gradient and the graph doesn't make it look like the final climb?

No stopping Nibali now IMO, he looks very strong.


----------



## Crackle (15 May 2013)

Shame Henao lost time as he's the better TT'er, though it is an uphill one next, may suit Duran Uran better.

Never mind the commentators, someone point Dave at the thread where we all called pulling Uran back a big mistake.


----------



## thom (15 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Shame Henao lost time as he's the better TT'er, though it is an uphill one next, may suit Duran Uran better.
> 
> Never mind the commentators, someone point Dave at the thread where we all called pulling Uran back a big mistake.


If Brad had spent more time at FdJ learning how to handle the cold & wet, he wouldn't be in this position :


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

VamP said:


> I am not sure. That time is the equivalent of doing three Box Hills in a row in a 6 minute time roughly. That's not bad TBH, and throw in the fact that not many of the pro peloton upload to Strava - he might just hang in there...


 
I'm not saying it's a bad time - it's certainly a damn sight faster than I could get up there. If you look at the leaderboard, a number of riders, including the KOM, posted decent times on the same day last August, so I'm guessing it must have been used in a race. But I still think it's way off the mark compared to what you'd expect even the tailenders in the Giro peloton to be capable of.

You're right though that it largely depends on whether or not any of the peloton upload their ride... Alex Dowsett uploaded his TT the other day but he hasn't uploaded any other stages. Laurens Ten Dam usually uploads his races but he's elsewhere.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> The gradient and the graph doesn't make it look like the final climb?


 
It's 7km at about 5%, which matches what it says in CN's race preview. Look at the route profile - you can see "Diga del Vajont" marked near the finish...


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

thom said:


> If Brad had spent more time at FdJ learning how to handle the cold & wet, he wouldn't be in this position :


 
The commentary is priceless. "Voila c'est un pistaire..."


----------



## raindog (15 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> The commentary is priceless. "Voila c'est un pistaire..."


that's the bloke's accent making it sound like that - it's actually "pistard"


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

raindog said:


> that's the bloke's accent making it sound like that - it's actually "pistard"


 
Sheesh. And I thought I knew a bit of French... That was a complete guess at the word based on what it sounded like. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## montage (15 May 2013)

Just to give a bit of hope for Brad - Wasn't Nibali shelled hard on the first summit finish of the tour? stage 7 where Froome won? He was outperforming Evans by a country mile after that day


----------



## Zofo (15 May 2013)

Just wishful thinking I know, but wouldn't it be great if Wiggo just grew a pair and went for it in TT mode with 30 k to go --a la Cancellara?


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN-MEj_2Moo


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

And a contemplative Sir Brad as well:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6bV0e29CNk


----------



## thom (15 May 2013)

montage said:


> Just to give a bit of hope for Brad - Wasn't Nibali shelled hard on the first summit finish of the tour? stage 7 where Froome won? He was outperforming Evans by a country mile after that day


Oh yes - Nibali lost 5 secs to Wiggins that day.

I think the one where I think Brad could conceivably make a lone break is Sunday's stage up the Galibier, since it's in France and the roads aren't quite so steep. But we all remember Cadel's epic pull (up the other side) to the top in 2011, so it's unlikely he'd make much headway.


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

thom said:


> Oh yes - Nibali lost 5 secs to Wiggins that day.
> 
> I think the one where I think Brad could conceivably make a lone break is Sunday's stage up the Galibier, since it's in France and the roads aren't quite so steep. But we all remember Cadel's epic pull (up the other side) to the top in 2011, so it's unlikely he'd make much headway.


He needs to belt up the Telegraph, descend like a madman and race to the top of the Galibier while Brailsford takes out Nibali with a sniper's rifle. One shot - as Bobby de Niro would say.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

Galibier sounds doubtful at the moment due to SNO. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing for Brad.


----------



## VamP (15 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Galibier sounds doubtful at the moment due to SNO. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing for Brad.


 
He thinks it's a bad thing.


----------



## thom (15 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Galibier sounds doubtful at the moment due to SNO. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing for Brad.


really ? I heard they'd been employing explosives to clear the way in the past few weeks, dislodging potential avalanches.


----------



## thom (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> He needs to belt up the Telegraph, descend like a madman and race to the top of the Galibier while Brailsford takes out Nibali with a sniper's rifle. One shot - as Bobby de Niro would say.


There's hardly anything to descend between the Telegraphe and Valloire - my Mum could do it.
Let's hope Brailsford has a good shot.


----------



## Killiekevin (15 May 2013)

French rider *Sylvain Georges *has failed a drugs test at the Giro d'Italia, cycling's governing body the UCI has said. The 28-year-old rides for the AG2R team and did not start today's stage. The drug he's tested positive for is Heptaminol, a substance that widens blood vessels.
"Mr Georges has the right to request and attend the analysis of his B sample," said the UCI in a statement. "The UCI Anti-Doping Rules do not impose a provisional suspension given the nature of the substance, which is a specified substance."


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

thom said:


> There's hardly anything to descend between the Telegraphe and Valloire - my Mum could do it.
> Let's hope Brailsford has a good shot.


 
Hmmm, your Mum v Wiggins? I'll get back to you.

OT - I got píssed in the café at the top of the Telegraph after doing the Galibier


----------



## VamP (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, your Mum v Wiggins? I'll get back to you.
> 
> OT - I got píssed in the café at the top of the Telegraph after doing the Galibier


 
Surprised you had the energy.

Edited: Ah, just saw what you meant. Carry on.


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

Another futile attack by the headless chicken, Pirazzi


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

2nd place KOM points in fairness to him


----------



## VamP (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Another futile attack by the headless chicken, Pirazzi


 
He got second for the KOM points, no?


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

see above!
I didn't realise they were that close to the points point!


----------



## VamP (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> see above!
> I didn't realise they were that close to the points point!


 
yeah crossed posts


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, your Mum v Wiggins? I'll get back to you.
> 
> OT - I got píssed in the café at the top of the Telegraph after doing the Galibier


 
How was the descent - wobbly and girl like?


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

looks like Oss or Navadetcetc will make it to the top?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (15 May 2013)

Killiekevin said:


> French rider *Sylvain Georges *has failed a drugs test at the Giro d'Italia, cycling's governing body the UCI has said. The 28-year-old rides for the AG2R team and did not start today's stage. The drug he's tested positive for is Heptaminol, a substance that widens blood vessels.
> "Mr Georges has the right to request and attend the analysis of his B sample," said the UCI in a statement. "The UCI Anti-Doping Rules do not impose a provisional suspension given the nature of the substance, which is a specified substance."


Well that stuff is not found in cough medicines so wtf was he thinking ? Quel imbécile


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

Vamos Duque!

Don't think he's going to catch Navardauskas but he might overtake Oss...


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

Oss off


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

Ooh, Bonnafond is catching Duque. Probably had a quick dose of cough medicine.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2013)

Chapeau Navardauskas. Nice win.

Looks like Oss is going to hold on for 2nd after all. Good effort.

Duque faded pretty quickly. Shame.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (15 May 2013)

Good job Honey Badger ! Nice stage win for Garmin-Sharp.


----------



## The Couch (15 May 2013)

Why (the hell) did De Greef try to escape the peloton at about the time Navardauskas was entering the last kilometer? The victory was gone and when you're in 23rd position in the GC (roughly 7 min away from a top 10), I don't see the need to try to take some extra seconds.

Am I missing something or are there just some cyclists with weird logic out there...?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2013)

I missed all that but it seems a bit like nothing much happened in terms of the overall anyway. Tomorrow is a sprinter's stage if everything goes to plan, but there are also possibilities for a breakaway.


----------



## jarlrmai (15 May 2013)

Does Ryder dropping out mean that his team are going to push for stage wins for each other now?


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

Any of the teams without a GC rider will be hunting for stage wins.


----------



## The Couch (15 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Any of the teams without a GC rider will be hunting for stage wins.


Garmin just did today


----------



## ayceejay (15 May 2013)

This afternoon I thought about the last virus I had that, it not on my chest like Wiggins but one that is known as 'gastro'. And then I looked at the times surrounding the general classification and what they might have meant to me during that illness. The times separating the main contenders is about the same time I had between 'urges' and I am reminded of how desperate was my need to get to the podium so I feel the pain.


----------



## 400bhp (15 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> Why (the hell) did De Greef try to escape the peloton at about the time Navardauskas was entering the last kilometer? The victory was gone and when you're in 23rd position in the GC (roughly 7 min away from a top 10), I don't see the need to try to take some extra seconds.
> 
> *Am I missing something or are there just some cyclists with weird logic out there..*.?


 
I think there are UCI tour points for finishing in the top placings?


----------



## rich p (15 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> Garmin just did today


I know - that was the point in answering jarlrmai's post


----------



## Radchenister (15 May 2013)

ayceejay said:


> This afternoon I thought about the last virus I had that, it not on my chest like Wiggins but one that is known as 'gastro'. And then I looked at the times surrounding the general classification and what they might have meant to me during that illness. The times separating the main contenders is about the same time I had between 'urges' and I am reminded of how desperate was my need to get to the podium so I feel the pain.


 
''Time sure kicks the sh1z out of people.'' - Dan Simmons, _Lovedeath_


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Am I the only person who thought that Wiggins looked really rough yesterday? He just looked like he was either suffering or would rather be doing something else.





ColinJ said:


> I know that Wiggins was fit enough to cope with that stage but I was wondering if he might have picked up a bug? Teammate Cataldo was ill the night before the TTT so there could be something floating about the team bus.





Wiggins said:


> I've got a chest infection and a bog-standard head cold.
> 
> Fortunately in these days, these kinds of stages, there's just a bit of fighting and you can get through them and hide a little bit. But I just want to try and fight through it and hope that in a few days' time I'll be all right.
> 
> Most of the team have been sick. It seems to last for three or four days and then you get better.


That would explain a lot! Link.


----------



## The Couch (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I know - that was the point in answering jarlrmai's post


Ooopps, missed jarlrmai's post .... that kinda ruined my joke


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

It's a sprinters day today, or so they say.
Cav to bag no.3 or maybe Goss will get to the altar first.
Modolo is still in too but I'm not sure which other sprinters have survived.


----------



## The Couch (16 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Does Ryder dropping out mean that his team are going to push for stage wins for each other now?


 
What I am wondering is:
Since currently Cavendish is climbing just about as good as Hesjedal ... should we expect Hesjedal to be sprinting as good as Cavendish?


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> What I am wondering is:
> Since currently Cavendish is climbing just about as good as Hesjedal ... should we expect Hesjedal to be sprinting as good as Cavendish?


I noticed that they finished together yesterday at 13 minutes down!
p.s. Bouhanni and Appollonio are still in.


----------



## The Couch (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> It's a sprinters day today, or so they say.
> Cav to bag no.3 or maybe Goss will get to the altar first.
> Modolo is still in too but I'm not sure which other sprinters have survived.


 
I guess Viviani has his eyes set on going for the Red Jersey (since a couple of days ago, he even went in an attack in a Mountain stage just to grab some intermediate sprint points). And - I think - he has been twice 2nd behind Cav...
Still ... I would expect Bouhanni to be the biggest challenger (Goss has been very crappy so far)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

The big issue today is going to be the narrow bridge inside the last km - it will mess up both sprint trains (therefore, Goss) and strongman sprinters (Bouhanni) and mean that this is a perfect stage for technical sprinters (especially those with track experience) and opportunists. I think it will be between Viviani and Cav, if they are both still there at the end.


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The big issue today is going to be the narrow bridge inside the last km - it will mess up both sprint trains (therefore, Goss) and strongman sprinters (Bouhanni) and mean that this is a perfect stage for technical sprinters (especially those with track experience) and opportunists. I think it will be between Viviani and Cav, if they are both still there at the end.


Through into the mix the fact that it's raining heavily (Cadel says the heaviest day of the year in Italy so far) and that sounds like carnage.
But if the rain persists then that may help any brave enough for a breakaway.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

thom said:


> Through into the mix the fact that it's raining heavily (Cadel says the heaviest day of the year in Italy so far) and that sounds like carnage.
> But if the rain persists then that may help any brave enough for a breakaway.


 
That would suit late opportunist breakaways in particular, seeking to get ahead of any sprint finish.


----------



## jowwy (16 May 2013)

Maybe be wiggo should try and make a break for it with 45km to go and time trial his way to a stage victory and catch nibles unaware


----------



## Slaav (16 May 2013)

Looking forward to Eurosport getting going!


----------



## The Couch (16 May 2013)

jowwy said:


> Maybe be wiggo should try and make a break for it with 45km to go and time trial his way to a stage victory and catch nibles unaware


He's sick... so it makes absolute sense for him to try be at the finishline as quickly as possible 

Maybe .... he can make a break for it in the descent of the Vittoria.. now that would definitely catch Nibali unaware


----------



## marinyork (16 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That would suit late opportunist breakaways in particular, seeking to get ahead of any sprint finish.


 
Eurosport coverage has just started. It does look fairly bad and was/is supposed to have been worse earlier and possibly later on as well. You can see how bad it is on some of the HD pictures.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

That rain is dreadful and due to keep going, off and on, for 6 days. Wiggins must have done something really bad to deserve this.


----------



## Noodley (16 May 2013)

The jury has stated that they are going to take the tinme for GC from the 3km marker to eliminate the chances of crashes...well, that'll work - not.


----------



## Noodley (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> That rain is dreadful and due to keep going, off and on, for 6 days. Wiggins must have done something really bad to deserve this.


 
You mean, the Belgian Bradley Wiggins?


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Ooooops big crash up front


----------



## tug benson (16 May 2013)

slippy part of the road


----------



## marinyork (16 May 2013)

Argh it's got really bad now, what was that every one except one in the breakaway going down on that corner?


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> You mean, the Belgian Bradley Wiggins?


aren't you working?


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

they slide quite well in the rain though


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

The camera is focussing on Wiggo teetering round the corners in a slightly morbid way!


----------



## smutchin (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> That rain is dreadful and due to keep going, off and on, for 6 days. Wiggins must have done something really bad to deserve this.


 
Has Chris Froome been in touch with his witch doctor chums back in Kenya recently, does anyone know?


----------



## phil_hg_uk (16 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Has Chris Froome been in touch with his witch doctor chums back in Kenya recently, does anyone know?


 
 thats spooky I was thinking maybe chris froome was a witch or something.


----------



## festival (16 May 2013)

I know the weather is foul, again and conditions are tricky but I have never seen anything like Wiggins performance.
Regardless of him feeling under the weather, he is riding his bike like a novice and every time the road goes down, his heads gone!


----------



## Crackle (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> That rain is dreadful and due to keep going, off and on, for 6 days. Wiggins must have done something really bad to deserve this.


 
I believe it was instigated by a Kenyan rain dance


----------



## Beebo (16 May 2013)

the astana team in full blue tights look like they are cycling in pyjamas.

Long tights must always be black!!


----------



## Noodley (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> aren't you working?


 
I is. But my computer now has access to here due to server upgrade.


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

Flipping heck - I like to watch the Grand Tours to _forget_ about the crappy weather in the UK, not to be _reminded_ of it!


----------



## smutchin (16 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> I believe it was instigated by a Kenyan rain dance


 
Sincerest form of flattery, I hear.


----------



## Crackle (16 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sincerest form of flattery, I hear.


I'm going for, great minds think alike, due to the fact I never read to the end of the thread.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (16 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Flipping heck - I like to watch the Grand Tours to _forget_ about the crappy weather in the UK, not to be _reminded_ of it!


 
I think it is quite nice to see the weather over there, then look out the window and it is lovely and


----------



## jarlrmai (16 May 2013)

mud guards? what's next panniers? 

I just got back from 50km in the sun


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> I think it is quite nice to see the weather over there, then look out the window and it is lovely and


Showery here, but ... hang on, is that a break in the clouds? 

Ah, the forecast has improved for later on. I might nip out after this stage has finished!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> You mean, the Belgian Bradley Wiggins?


That's like the Scot, Andy Murray when he crashes out of Wimbledon...


----------



## jarlrmai (16 May 2013)

Road Tax dodging Belgian and lycra lout Bradley Wiggins....


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> That's like the Scot, Andy Murray when he crashes out of Wimbledon...


Or the Brit when he wins.


----------



## dragon72 (16 May 2013)

Horses for courses. He certainly is not the horse for this particular course.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Wiggins off the back!


----------



## Buddfox (16 May 2013)

By over a minute... not looking good


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Wiggins off the back!


& BMC drilling it on the front.
So here we see for real if Brad+2 can TT faster then the peloton...


----------



## Buddfox (16 May 2013)

Am querying the Eurosport time gaps though, it just fell from a minute and 20 seconds to 38 seconds in about 10 seconds


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

They will bridge the gap easy i think. More worrying is his condition and mentality.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (16 May 2013)

Does anybody know if Uran is with him or with the maglia rosa?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

Jeez i take that back. He's fooked.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Does anybody know if Uran is with him or with the maglia rosa?


No one is with him! He must have ordered them on.


----------



## Buddfox (16 May 2013)

He's now on his own and looks to be struggling a great deal, looks like they've thrown in the towel, for today at least


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

Nibbles should just put the hammer down now and get it over with.


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 May 2013)

Looks like game over for Wiggins.


----------



## montage (16 May 2013)

embarrassing


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (16 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Nibbles should just put the hammer down now and get it over with.


 
Seems like that was what bmc tried to do.


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Nibbles should just put the hammer down now and get it over with.


I think it was over on Saturday innit ?


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 May 2013)

Over to you Rigoberto!


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

The break is getting caught
Cav time we hope


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

i thought this was meant to be a boring flat stage!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

End of Wiggins's challenge. Uran is Sky's leader now.


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

race radio says Uran is not with Nibbles either... acording to cyclingnews


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

laurence said:


> race radio says Uran is not with Nibbles either... acording to cyclingnews


If that is true then it is a big mistake by the SKY management!


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

I hope the Wiggins group doesn't get lapped


----------



## kedab (16 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> End of Wiggins's challenge. Uran is Sky's leader now.


what happened to bradders? I have to nip oot to the post office, get back 20 minutes later and his giro's apparently over? did he get involved in a whoopsie or has this stage just done him in?


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

There's 2 Sky at least in the Maglia Rosa group - must be Uran


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

sky's twitter report says Uran is in with Nibbles!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

There is definitely one Sky rider the front group unless my eyes deceive me.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> There is definitely one Sky rider the front group unless my eyes deceive me.


They do - it's 2!


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

I'd be wetting myself if I was a sprinter in this


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

laurence said:


> sky's twitter report says Uran is in with Nibbles!


CN live feed has it as Heano. Have not seen myself.


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 May 2013)

No shots of Wiggins for a few minutes but it looked like Sky were giving up to me.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

Cav & Co best get a move on with 3km to go


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

Okay so Henao and Uran up front. I definitely haven't seen Uran in the Wiggins train


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I'd be wetting myself if I was a sprinter in this


 
it's ok, no one will notice in this weather


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

break have done a great job


----------



## Crackle (16 May 2013)

I think Wiggins admission of a cold yesterday was telling. He's probably been carrying that virus for a while but has not wanted to make excuses.


----------



## smutchin (16 May 2013)

I've lost the English feed so I'm watching in Italian now. The Italian commentators seem to be in a good mood for some reason.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

bloody good effort form that breakaway group !


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Cav


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

He is fecking amazing, isn't he!!!!?????


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2013)

Easy for Cav


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (16 May 2013)

Didn't Cav make it look easy! 100th!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

#100 for Cavendish, good lad.


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

oooh, iffy sprint - off to the stewards?


----------



## smutchin (16 May 2013)

FFS! Stupid ad popped up when they were 150m from the line!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Easy for Cav


he looks f****d !! lol...


----------



## VamP (16 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> I've lost the English feed so I'm watching in Italian now. The Italian commentators seem to be in a good mood for some reason.


 
Me too. All they are saying is Marka Cavendishe, though. Over and over.


----------



## Scoosh (16 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> FFS! Stupid ad popped up when they were 150m from the line!


You need Adblock


----------



## RWright (16 May 2013)

Cav great effort, wow.


----------



## kedab (16 May 2013)

oooh super stuff from the 5 up front - that was very nearly a brilliant breakaway. great stuff from the cav as always...a brit sportsperson that you can actually count on to get it right when the chips are down


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

good stage, proper rule 9 day out.


----------



## laurence (16 May 2013)

the overhead was clearer, it was the two behind knocking elbows - Cav well clear.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Bouhanni sprinted like a dangerous loon again


----------



## Scoosh (16 May 2013)

Cav looked fair knackered and dirty at the end - more like at the finish of a Spring Classic !


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

If Brad's time loss is measured at the 3km to go mark, I think he lost 2mins 45 secs, give or take.
Well, let's hope he gets over his illnesses and can perhaps pick a stage to have an individual shot at a win to show some of his underlying great form.
It must feel like a nightmare - he can certainly come out with his head held high if he applies himself like Cadel did at the tour last year, particularly if along the way he sits on the front and rides for Uran a bit.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Cav back in the points jersey again until the mountains at least


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Scoosh said:


> more like at the finish of a Spring Classic !


That's part of why Nibali and Cadel are coping better than Brad I think - the Giro always has some nasty weather and racing the classics like they do while although dangerous, seems to be pertinent to the style of racing.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

If the forecast is correct and it stays wet for another 5 days at least, Wiggo will have his work cut out however he feels, Thom.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

Cav was knackered before that sprint. Hats off, he is as hungry for his 100th as he was for his 1st. Legend. 

As for Sky................................


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> If the forecast is correct and it stays wet for another 5 days at least, Wiggo will have his work cut out however he feels, Thom.


I refer you to the cricket thread if you want another place to squash my blind optimism


----------



## RWright (16 May 2013)

Great interview with Cav.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

And after all that they never gave us the GC standings !


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (16 May 2013)

laurence said:


> *the overhead was clearer, it was the two behind knocking elbows* - Cav well clear.


 
With Cav around and his train starting to work, there is not much anybody else could do but racing for 2nd... It is probably going to be like the htc days again by the time of the Tour.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (16 May 2013)

Wiggins in 13th spot at 5'22" with Uran in 3rd place GC and Henao a few seconds ahead of Wiggins himself. Stars and Water Carriers ?


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Apparently SKY have a new plan,
with Uran Uran.
Brailsford did what he can,
but Brad no longer is their main man.


----------



## Get In The Van (16 May 2013)

I would be very surprised if Brad rides the rest of the Giro, he'll drop out and then be back for the Tour......... or maybe the Vuelta


----------



## neilb1906 (16 May 2013)

Wiggos lack of pre Giro wins did not bode well IMHO.

Froome was the right choice to lead Sky @ TDF.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2013)

Did anyone see what happened to Orica-Greenedge and MH Goss in particular? Did they take the wrong exit at a roundabout again?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

thom said:


> Apparently SKY have a new plan,
> with Uran Uran.
> Brailsford did what he can,
> but Brad no longer is their main man.


Poet and.................

You know it!!


----------



## Radchenister (16 May 2013)

Missed today's race, gutted for Sir Brad, pleased for Sir Cav - the thread makes for a good catch up read by the way  ; it's like heavily edited commentator comments, except maybe more factual  - not sure I can face the whole race highlights, might just catch the finish.


----------



## thom (16 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Missed today's race, gutted for Sir Brad, pleased for Sir Cav - the thread makes for a good catch up read by the way  ; it's like heavily edited commentator comments, except maybe more factual  - not sure I can face the whole race highlights, might just catch the finish.


Here's the highlights :







Here's some lowlights :

Bouhanni is so knackered he won't start tomorrow.


----------



## Radchenister (16 May 2013)

Yuk, awful weather - have they moved the race to Wales or something?


----------



## Peteaud (16 May 2013)

Get In The Van said:


> I would be very surprised if Brad rides the rest of the Giro, he'll drop out and then be back for the Tour


 
I am thinking the same.


----------



## Fuzzball (16 May 2013)

Sky should already of been riding for Uran today rather than messing about trying to keep Wiggins in it when he is obviously knackered, and lets face it his descending was awful so far anyway. Now Uran has very little chance of challenging after today total waste of tour for the team.


----------



## tug benson (16 May 2013)

Get In The Van said:


> I would be very surprised if Brad rides the rest of the Giro, he'll drop out and then be back for the *Tour*......... or maybe the Vuelta


 
You think he`ll ride for froome?


----------



## Slaav (16 May 2013)

I have a horrible feeling this is all going to throw a total spanner in teh works for Team Sky and TdF!

Most appear to now believe that Sir Brad's Giro is all but over. So, what is he going to do? Give up on the season? Go for the Vuelta or defend the Tour? He is after all in the 'best shape of his life'? Super Dom in the Team Froome? (WHilst being the current Champ?)

Also, I would like to think that if his Giro really is 'over', then he should stay in it, recover his health and form and help Uran win the damn thing or drive Nibbles very close at least....

Really do not know how this will all pan out! (Has anyone ever come back from this sort of deficit in GC?)


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## jarlrmai (16 May 2013)

A load of hilly Giro stages in the rain with a chest infection sounds like hell.


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## smutchin (16 May 2013)

Slaav said:


> (Has anyone ever come back from this sort of deficit in GC?)



In 1907, Luigi Battiguano came back from a 23 hour deficit to his arch rival Massimiliano Scarpa di Salice after riding the last three stages non-stop (a total of 1134km - stages were much longer in those days). But he nearly didn't make it - he punctured after hitting a rock hidden in the snow on the climb of the Tre Cime and had no spare inner tubes, so had to improvise a new tube using the intestine of a sheep, which he had to slaughter himself - he was almost disqualified because the shepherd held the sheep down while he cut its throat with a blunt toe clip, which the officials deemed "illegal assistance of a rider". I recommend Matt Rendell's book "In Santa Croce Without A Baedeker" if you want to read the full epic story.


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## ayceejay (16 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> In 1907, Luigi Battiguano came back from a 23 hour deficit to his arch rival Massimiliano Scarpa di Salice after riding the last three stages non-stop (a total of 1134km - stages were much longer in those days). But he nearly didn't make it - he punctured after hitting a rock hidden in the snow on the climb of the Tre Cime and had no spare inner tubes, so had to improvise a new tube using the intestine of a sheep, which he had to slaughter himself - he was almost disqualified because the shepherd held the sheep down while he cut its throat with a blunt toe clip, which the officials deemed "illegal assistance of a rider". I recommend Matt Rendell's book "In Santa Croce Without A Baedeker" if you want to read the full epic story.


I heard he kept riding north and was on time for the start of the TdeF three weeks later he had only one shoe on at the finish, the other having been bitten off by a mountain lion that he narrowly escaped from while feeding on road kill, he squirted the 'water' from his bidon into the lions eyes briefly blinding it - unfortunately he was disqualified for abseiling down the north face of Alpe d'Huez.


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## rich p (16 May 2013)

I see that Lancaster came in 5th today in a sideways nod to the anniversary of the Dambusters raid.


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## Radchenister (16 May 2013)

Does it always get this abstract on here at this stage in the Giro?


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## rich p (16 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Does it always get this abstract on here at this stage in the Giro?


Cabin fever at the halfway point.


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## Crackle (16 May 2013)

Fuzzball said:


> Sky should already of been riding for Uran today rather than messing about trying to keep Wiggins in it when he is obviously knackered, and lets face it his descending was awful so far anyway. Now Uran has very little chance of challenging after today total waste of tour for the team.


Uran is still in third, two minutes off, he's looking pretty good so far.

I would imagine Wiggins would really like to salvage something from this tour if he doesn't get worse. The final TT would be an obvious aim.


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## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

It seems pretty far fetched to think that Wiggins can make a good recovery now in time to do anything useful in this Giro. He isn't supposed to be riding for a TdF win, and I can't see him wanting to be Froome's helper, so why not give him plenty of recovery time and send him to the Vuelta instead, and come back for the Giro next year? He said that he wanted a full set of GT victories before he retired.


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## rich p (16 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Uran is still in third, two minutes off, he's looking pretty good so far.
> 
> I would imagine Wiggins would really like to salvage something from this tour if he doesn't get worse. The final TT would be an obvious aim.


If he's so under the weather that he can't keep up on flat sections with his team pulling, is thjere any point in flogging himself over the worst of the mountains in terrible weather?


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## Crackle (16 May 2013)

rich p said:


> If he's so under the weather that he can't keep up on flat sections with his team pulling, is thjere any point in flogging himself over the worst of the mountains in terrible weather?


I agree but....realistically he's probably not going to be the Tour leader, so he could take a chance on toughing it out and putting some gloss on this Giro. That said, chances are he'll pull out, especially with the forecast snow and rain, not something you want with a chest infection.


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## Pedrosanchezo (16 May 2013)

Yeh if he's ill then he is just doing more damage than good - to both his body and reputation. Bow out and let Uran/Sky salvage what they can. 

Rest, recover and return Sir Wiggo.


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## Crackle (16 May 2013)

but ....

This tweet from David Walsh

_Reaction from Team Sky is that Bradley Wiggins was bothered by sore knee. If knee is troubling him, hard to see him continue_

https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST


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## rich p (16 May 2013)

He also has a severe and incurable case of hypochondria I believe


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## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

Let's face it - his knee, chest, nose, throat and mind are playing up, so he might as well pull out, take a rest and recover properly!


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## tigger (16 May 2013)

Hopefully he'll pull out, rest and recover, ride the Dauphine or Tour of Switzerland and be part of a genuine two pronged attack for the Tour as the understudy to Froome. The last 12 days of tough stage racing will be good preparation for this. #something to aim for


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## Get In The Van (16 May 2013)

tug benson said:


> You think he`ll ride for froome?


 
Not in the slightest, I think that Wiggins will be given a free reign to do what he wants. the other riders will then work for whoever needs it, if Brad blows again the team will be told do not wait, if the two of therm are at the peak of their fitness then when the high mountains come they will have dropped most if not all of the other Sky riders as they reach the summits (i'm assuming that SKY go with mainly the team that's built around Froome just now and that doesn't include Uran)
Brailsford will accommodate Brad for the Tour but only in this capacity in my opinion and that opinion has been known on occasion to be wildly wrong


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## thom (16 May 2013)

BBC are reporting Wiggins may be pulled out by the docs.
It is a few months to be twiddling his thumbs before the Vuelta but it is a nice idea that @ColinJ mentions. His injuries don't sound too long lasting to really set him back in terms of the secondary season goal of the TdF.

Perhaps though he can be seen as less indomitable by the UK press now. From what I've seen, he has been pretty gallant about his troubles here. It would be nice if the hype surrounding him is toned down a bit and the mainstream cycling press look a bit further into the epic performances of Nibali and Cadel as the race goes on.


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## Radchenister (16 May 2013)

Get In The Van said:


> Not in the slightest, I think that Wiggins will be given a free reign to do what he wants. the other riders will then work for whoever needs it, if Brad blows again the team will be told do not wait, if the two of therm are at the peak of their fitness then when the high mountains come they will have dropped most if not all of the other Sky riders as they reach the summits (i'm assuming that SKY go with mainly the team that's built around Froome just now and that doesn't include Uran)
> Brailsford will accommodate Brad for the Tour but only in this capacity in my opinion and that opinion has been known on occasion to be wildly wrong


 
Anarchy in the UK at team SKY, MOD turns to PUNK road racing stylie, I like it  .



thom said:


> BBC are reporting Wiggins may be pulled out by the docs.
> It is a few months to be twiddling his thumbs before the Vuelta but it is a nice idea that @ColinJ mentions. His injuries don't sound too long lasting to really set him back in terms of the secondary season goal of the TdF.
> 
> Perhaps though he can be seen as less indomitable by the UK press now. From what I've seen, he has been pretty gallant about his troubles here. It would be nice if the hype surrounding him is toned down a bit and the mainstream cycling press look a bit further into the epic performances of Nibali and Cadel as the race goes on.


 
How's that going to sell papers  ?


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## Radchenister (16 May 2013)

Uran Uran does of course represent the New Romantics!

Time I went to bed, it'll all seem better in the morning, gone a bit too far off piste this Giro thing  .


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## jifdave (17 May 2013)

He's pulled out.... 

Back on the Allez wiggo bandwagon


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 May 2013)

http://www1.skysports.com/cycling/n...o-due-to-illness-on-advice-of-Team-Sky-doctor


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

According to Inner Ring, Goss didn't contest yesteday's sprint because he's targeting today's stage - it seems ideal for people like him rather than Cav because of the steep kick up before the finish.


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

What happened to Viviani yesterday? 16th? Pffft.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

I should add that actually the steep kick also makes it possible that people like Henao and Evans might also go for it today.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Today's stage is the longest of the tour I think so, unless Orica and some of the other teams with a sprinter pull their weight and don't leave it to OPQS, a break could stick.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Depending on how steep FM's kick is!


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/giro-ditalia/stage-13
This profile makes it look like a downhill finish with a sharp climb before the end which is maybe what FM was saying!
I'm not sure that Cav couldn't get over it though and it may suit better climbers than Goss which makes not contesting yesterday a strange, defensive decision.


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## VamP (17 May 2013)

Wiggins withdraws. Not a surprise really.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/giro-ditalia/stage-13
> This profile makes it look like a downhill finish with a sharp climb before the end.


 
It is - apparently the descent is also 'fast and technical' according to Inner Ring. So, the last 10km could throw up all sorts of surprises depending on whether there are attacks on the last hill or on the descent.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Wiggins withdraws. Not a surprise really.


 
Hesjedal too. It's amazing how sympathetic people have been to him and in contrast how many online commentators are saying that Wiggins is faking it and just isn't good enough. A lot of people really don't like Wiggins. Personally, I still think that whatever is wrong with him is as much in his head as in his body (and I do believe he is physically sick), but you can't really question his palmares or commitment to cycling.


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

I hope there are some old school attacks today. Anyway, with Wiggins bailing out at least the tv people can drop that extra 'where's wiggins' graphic.


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## Dave Davenport (17 May 2013)

Ryder Hesjedal's going home too.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Hesjedal too. It's amazing how sympathetic people have been to him and in contrast how many online commentators are saying that Wiggins is faking it and just isn't good enough. A lot of people really don't like him.


I edited my post above after re-reading yours!
I suspect a lot of folk dislike Sky in general rather than Wiggins in particular. A lot of people , me included, weren't keen on Evans when he was perceived as a defensive rider and a wheelsucker and maybe Wiggins falls into the same category to some people.
Aggressive riders like Contador, Nibali and Rodriguez are better liked.


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Hesjedal too. It's amazing how sympathetic people have been to him and in contrast how many online commentators are saying that Wiggins is faking it and just isn't good enough. A lot of people really don't like Wiggins. Personally, I still think that whatever is wrong with him is as much in his head as in his body (and I do believe he is physically sick), but you can't really question his palmares or commitment to cycling.


Hesjedal just admitted he didnt have the legs and wasnt in form. No excuses. Unfortunately for Wiggins the media seemed to have had him as the man to beat. Also, Wiggins came to the Giro saying he was in the best climbing form of his life, so the scene was set really. I dont think Wiggins was faking any illness though, especially after yesterdays stage, however he was fine the first few days but just descended like a fanny.


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## kedab (17 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Bouhanni sprinted like a dangerous loon again


he's still learning, bless him. i do like the fact that he goes absolutely batsh!t when it doesn't go right for him...i do enjoy a bit of rage


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

kedab said:


> he's still learning, bless him. i do like the fact that he goes absolutely batsh!t when it doesn't go right for him...i do enjoy a bit of rage


 
He's withdrawn too, apparently. So no more of him.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Hesjedal just admitted he didnt have the legs and wasnt in form. No excuses. Unfortunately for Wiggins the media seemed to have had him as the man to beat. Also, Wiggins came to the Giro saying he was in the best climbing form of his life, so the scene was set really. I dont think Wiggins was faking any illness though, especially after yesterdays stage, however he was fine the first few days but just descended like a fanny.


 
I think a lot of people don't understand depression and mental issues in general. Especially in a tough and sometimes overly macho sport like cycling, people are too ready just to point and laugh and see it as 'weakness'.


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## kedab (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> He's withdrawn too, apparently. So no more of him.


has he, really? well that's a bit of a bummer. chickened out before the hills? you don't see cav' doing that, do you eh?! 
i jest of course...what those riders have put themselves through in the past week or so i would take 6 months to recover from. of course i'd have cracked on the 1st stage at the merest sniff of an incline. maximum respeck for all of dem innit


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## VamP (17 May 2013)

I also think with Wiggins there's that baggage of Olympic golds and first British TDF winner. He's moved from being a hero to cyclists, to being a hero to the NATION. That makes failure much less forgivable, especially to people who don't follow or understand the sport.


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## kedab (17 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> however he was fine the first few days but just descended like a fanny.


haha! yes, yes he did. he looked quite the amateur at times going down some of those slopes. ah well. hope he recovers well enough and then sticks it to the froomedog (in the nicest possible sense), at TdeF - right then, where's big bobby gesink? if he's still in and going alright, he's my boy for the rest of the race.


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

kedab said:


> haha! yes, yes he did. he looked quite the amateur at times going down some of those slopes. ah well. hope he recovers well enough and then sticks it to the froomedog (in the nicest possible sense), at TdeF - right then, where's big bobby gesink? if he's still in and going alright, he's my boy for the rest of the race.


as FM said, mental issues can be tough to overcome, and taking a fall in the wet maybe just became enough of a psychological hurdle for him that a bit of extra stress allowed the chest problems to take hold. I think he will need to actually race a bit and get some resuts prior to the TdF before Brailsford gives him the nod for any Maillot Jaune ambitions though.


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## kedab (17 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> as FM said, mental issues can be tough to overcome, and taking a fall in the wet maybe just became enough of a psychological hurdle for him that a bit of extra stress allowed the chest problems to take hold. I think he will need to actually race a bit and get some resuts prior to the TdF before Brailsford gives him the nod for any Maillot Jaune ambitions though.


a very thoughtful appraisal and one i agree with. he was descending like a fanny though


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> as FM said, mental issues can be tough to overcome, and taking a fall in the wet maybe just became enough of a psychological hurdle for him that a bit of extra stress allowed the chest problems to take hold. I think he will need to actually race a bit and get some resuts prior to the TdF before Brailsford gives him the nod for any Maillot Jaune ambitions though.


 
I agree, in fact I think he would have been better off just getting into the mix with a variety of races and targets this season. And he certainly should not have got into a fight with Froome. I still think that this is playing on his mind.


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## Beebo (17 May 2013)

Defending champion Ryder Hesjedal has also abandoned the race. The Canadian had been lying 38th, more than 32 minutes adrift of the lead.
He said: "I have tried my best to honor the number one bib number, my team and fans. It is devastating to leave this way."


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## jdtate101 (17 May 2013)

I also agree with the above. Froome is on a roll right now and despite Brad being the defending champion, what's right for the TEAM should come first. The greatest chance of victory lies with Froome as the course is better suited to him. I would hope Brad would see it this way too and not let ego or other concerns get the better of him. If he rides the TdF in support of Froome it will go a long way to endeer him to those people now questioning his attitude.


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## beastie (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think a lot of people don't understand depression and mental issues in general. Especially in a tough and sometimes overly macho sport like cycling, people are too ready just to point and laugh and see it as 'weakness'.


In a sporting context, it IS a weakness. Or it certainly might appear as one, with the impression giving added motivation to ones rivals.


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## thom (17 May 2013)

The Tre Cuni is 10 km at 5%, Cat 3 and if that don't shed sprinters, they still have 35km to the finish to get back on. There are 2 bump 100m climbs in the last 15km but it is flat with 6km to go.








So I reckon Cav can do this one personally - it is sometimes easy to discount how motivated he can be, in particular to beat ex-team mates like Goss - it will be fun to see how that plays out.


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## thom (17 May 2013)

To be honest, with Brad's attitude, I have less of an issue with him now at the point of withdrawal than I did beforehand when he was appearing exceedingly cocky.
I do believe his underlying form is very strong, so he should just get well and find some stage races to go and win.


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## Buddfox (17 May 2013)

I hope Cav does it again. I don't think OPQS would have caught the breakaway yesterday if they'd been left on their own to chase it down, it was only once the other teams took it up (to put the hammer into Wiggo?) that the gap really started to come down. My main concern would be a breakaway just getting too far ahead and holding on. Loved yesterday's finish though, Cav won because he just wanted it that little bit more - all the sprinters seemed shagged from the effort of catching the breakaway!


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## Buddfox (17 May 2013)

thom said:


> To be honest, with Brad's attitude, I have less of an issue with him now at the point of withdrawal than I did beforehand when he was appearing exceedingly cocky.
> I do believe his underlying form is very strong, so he should just get well and find some stage races to go and win.


 
Agree with this - I'm a bit gutted about the illness because I think this was a real opportunity for him to enhance his credentials even further as a Grand Tour rider. I believe Sky will stick with Froome as priority no.1 at the TdF (he has earned that after all), but one typical alternative of Wiggo now targetting the Vuelta doesn't really work as it doesn't suit him.


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## Radchenister (17 May 2013)

Depression, how did we get onto that!?!

Actually, can't be @rsed to trawl over the issues, it's supposed to be entertaining and fun this sport thing isn't it or are we all more into car crash media these days? 

Rhetorical questions  . 

Right, come on Rigo and Evans, give Nibbles a run for his money!


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## Buddfox (17 May 2013)

In many ways, Uran represents a more entertaining card for Sky to play. I'm not sure he's got what it takes to best Evans or Nibali, but given his relative weakness in the time trial, he's going to have to go hell for leather in a couple of the big mountain stages. Possibly not this weekend, but in the final few mountain stages he ought to be able to put some time into Evans at least. And he'll never be more motivated, he's got a nails-on team to support him, and he's probably riding for a big contract at another team for next year. Looking forward to the fireworks!


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## Dave Davenport (17 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> In many ways, Uran represents a more entertaining card for Sky to play. I'm not sure he's got what it takes to best Evans or Nibali, but given his relative weakness in the time trial, he's going to have to go hell for leather in a couple of the big mountain stages. Possibly not this weekend, but in the final few mountain stages he ought to be able to put some time into Evans at least. And he'll never be more motivated, he's got a nails-on team to support him, and he's probably riding for a big contract at another team for next year. Looking forward to the fireworks!


 
Given the profile of the final TT I don't think they'll be much in it between Nibali, Evans and Uran.


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Given the profile of the final TT I don't think they'll be much in it between Nibali, Evans and Uran.


 
I have a sneaking feeling Gesink could be in the mix as well. I've been harsh on him in the past for not delivering on his promise but he's looking good so far - and it wouldn't be the first time I've been proved wrong...


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> I don't think OPQS would have caught the breakaway yesterday if they'd been left on their own to chase it down, it was only once the other teams took it up (to put the hammer into Wiggo?) that the gap really started to come down. My main concern would be a breakaway just getting too far ahead and holding on.


 
Can't see many teams putting in a lot of effort to chase down any breaks today, given what's in store in the next two stages. That could work against Cav and the other pure sprinters today, although if Goss is targeting the stage, the Greenedge boys might just pull it all together before the finish - as long as they don't get lost...


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## laurence (17 May 2013)

Beebo said:


> Defending champion Ryder Hesjedal has also abandoned the race. The Canadian had been lying 38th, more than 32 minutes adrift of the lead.
> He said: "I have tried my best to honor the number one bib number, my team and fans. It is devastating to leave this way."


 
sad to see Ryder go, he did honour the jersey and my estimation of him has risen for that.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Depression, how did we get onto that!?!
> 
> Actually, can't be @rsed to trawl over the issues, it's supposed to be entertaining and fun this sport thing isn't it or are we all more into car crash media these days?


 
Cycling is a mind game as well as a physical one. I would have thought that this was pretty obvious.


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## Radchenister (17 May 2013)

Yes of course but the step up from someone feeling a bit under the weather to someone being depressed belittles those with real depression issues.


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## ColinJ (17 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Yes of course but the step up from someone feeling a bit under the weather to someone being depressed belittles those with real depression issues.


Wiggins has a history of depression issues!


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## Crackle (17 May 2013)

The power of the mind is an amazing thing. Sometimes I convince myself I know something about racing.


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## Pedrosanchezo (17 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Wiggins has a history of depression issues!


I think what he means is "real" depression. I am not sure that is what we are seeing here. Surely he is just unwell (physically) and lost some composure descending in the wet.

I think the headlines of "wiggins battles depression" are slightly misleading.

Wiggins said of his boozing and depression:

 "I'm not saying I was clinically depressed but there were definite bouts of depression - and lots of drinking."


​


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## Pedrosanchezo (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Cycling is a mind game as well as a physical one. I would have thought that this was pretty obvious.


Paul Kochli was a true believer in this. The mindset and tactics in a race are as important as ones physical condition.

Or something to that effect...............


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## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

50 odd km/h jesus christ


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

OPQS already on the front with 80+km to go. They'll need some assistance surely. GreenEdge time.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Cav still in the boonch so far


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Cav still in the boonch so far


 
He's really doing all right, isn't he.


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## BrumJim (17 May 2013)

New bike. I always ride with a bit more verve on a new bike!


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

Would like to see Cavendish take this stage over Goss who declared his intentions. It would be a good one to nail given the fast pace being set and the long drag uphill near the end, very un-Cav like, so kudos if he pulls it off.


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

Just wondering... how does the end of this stage compare with the end of Milan-Sanremo?


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## VamP (17 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Here's the Strava segment of today's final climb. I have a funny feeling Signore De Stefano is going to lose his KOM...
> 
> http://app.strava.com/segments/1249637


 
I have just remembered to go back and check. Signore De Stefano is imperious


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## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

I think its considered bad form to Strava on a GT...


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Cav still up the front even up the hills


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## thom (17 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Just wondering... how does the end of this stage compare with the end of Milan-Sanremo?


@ 13km they descend to a bridge over a river. 1 switch back, 1 or 2 90 % turns
@ 8.5 km there is a bridge, then a climb with 2 switch backs, 100 m ascent
@ 6.2 km it is flat to the finish, straight for most of the way

So not so comparable ;-)


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## AndyRM (17 May 2013)

Boom! Cav does it, and on his own!


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

ohh...very close....but Cavendish nails it. Nice one !!


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## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

ES calls it for Cav looks close though


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## smutchin (17 May 2013)

Wow.


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## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

he got it even though he went a little early crazy acceleration


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

crikey


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## thom (17 May 2013)

That was close in the end but a really good win given the bumps took out his team mates


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

OPQS worked hard all day. GreenEdge are way too defensive and Goss as much as admitted his frailty by not contesting yesterday.


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## Strathlubnaig (17 May 2013)

His climbing is way better than previous races too, which today really set him up for the sprint. Great stuff, very impressive given where he was with 500m to go.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

I've never seen him so tired after a stage though.


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## RWright (17 May 2013)

The way he is riding he deserves to be a little tired. Outstanding excellent effort. I am still kicking myself for not getting him on my Giro fantasy team.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2013)

rich p said:


> I've never seen him so tired after a stage though.


 
Well, he seems to be making much more effort to get over the climbs in the front - today was almost like a Milan-San Remo on its own.


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## rich p (17 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, he seems to be making much more effort to get over the climbs in the front - today was almost like a Milan-San Remo on its own.


Yep!
Did Goss get over in the front group? I've nothing against Goss by the way but given that he forewent yesterday's sprint to keep fresh for today...


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## thom (17 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Yep!
> Did Goss get over in the front group? I've nothing against Goss by the way but given that he forewent yesterday's sprint to keep fresh for today...


I heard he didn't get over the Tre Cuni with the peloton, about 35 km from the end.
Either that or he realised Nizzolo was going to come second today.


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## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

One thing I've been curious about since getting into pro cycling, if Cav theoretically pulls out of the Giro tomorrow do all his stage wins still count?


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## dragon72 (17 May 2013)

The breakaway had as much as 13 minutes at one point today. I know it was a long stage but that's a big lead to lose/reel in. As Alan Partridge would say, that's a quarter of an episode of The Darling Buds of May.


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> One thing I've been curious about since getting into pro cycling, if Cav theoretically pulls out of the Giro tomorrow do all his stage wins still count?


Yes.


----------



## jarlrmai (17 May 2013)

Thanks


----------



## ColinJ (17 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> One thing I've been curious about since getting into pro cycling, if Cav theoretically pulls out of the Giro tomorrow do all his stage wins still count?


Yes, but I always felt a bit disappointed when sprinters like Cipollini used to mop up the early sprint stages and then swan off to the beach.

You can't win any of the jerseys though unless you finish the entire race.


----------



## Beebo (17 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> You can't win any of the jerseys though unless you finish the entire race.


 I think that was the question jarlrmai meant to ask?

The stage wins count to your record but you cant win the jersey unless you finish the race. It is possible to earn more points than the overall jersey winner, but not make it to the final day.


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2013)

dragon72 said:


> As Alan Partridge would say, that's a quarter of an episode of The Darling Buds of May.



And as Sean Kelly would say, the peloton will have done the calculations.


----------



## thom (17 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> And as Sean Kelly would say, the peloton will have done the calculations.


I like the idea of the pro-cyclists with special pro-garmins with calculators on, doing the calculations with simple equations of motion to work out how long they need to catch the breakaway :

distance_to_breakaway = speed_diff x time + acceleration_diff x time^2

SKY have a special formula that tell them what watts they need to do too


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (17 May 2013)

Sure Cav isn't swiss? His timing is flawless!!


----------



## themosquitoking (17 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Sure Cav isn't swiss? His timing is flawless!!


Maybe he's a descendant of john harrison.


----------



## beastie (18 May 2013)

No Galibier tomorrow, there is too much snow.


----------



## kedab (18 May 2013)

beastie said:


> No Galibier tomorrow, there is too much snow.


 wimps


----------



## laurence (18 May 2013)

Sestriere climb removed from today's stage due to weather


----------



## jarlrmai (18 May 2013)

So no climb Cav wins again


----------



## beastie (18 May 2013)

kedab said:


> wimps


Rule 5 required


----------



## kedab (18 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Rule 5 required


exactly - how dare they swerve a mountain just because it's got some snow on it!


----------



## rich p (18 May 2013)

It's a real shame and will make it harder for anyone to attack Nibali I guess. I don't see him as vulnerable but it would be more fun to see him under some pressure.
As someone said, it will make Cav's job easier and he might have enough energy to get over the lump in the Vicenza stage that he said would be too tough for him. It would be nice if Evans misses out on points and enables Cav to keep the red jersey.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (18 May 2013)

kedab said:


> exactly - how dare they swerve a mountain just because it's got some snow on it!


 
They need some marathon winter tyres, then they would be okay.


----------



## Crackle (18 May 2013)

Must be bad, not even any soddin' or sodden, pictures.


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## ColinJ (18 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They need some marathon winter tyres, then they would be okay.


Shaking violently with the cold, as you plunge down steep, snaking, wet roads in freezing fog - hmm ...


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## kedab (18 May 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They need some marathon winter tyres, then they would be okay.


 exactly


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## yello (18 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Must be bad, not even any soddin' or sodden, pictures.


 
Most inconsiderate too. I'm stuck here on the couch feeling all sorry for myself with a cold and there's frig all to watch on tele!


----------



## raindog (18 May 2013)

yello said:


> I'm stuck here on the couch feeling all sorry for myself with a cold and there's frig all to watch on tele!


get yerself over to spanners, yello


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

kedab said:


> exactly - how dare they swerve a mountain just because it's got some snow on it!


It sure beats having to suspend the stage, put the riders on a bus, transfer them past the col and restart (a la MSR) A sensible decision I think.


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## Radchenister (18 May 2013)

Are they on a bus or just going round?


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Confirmation now that tomorrow's stage will be completely different (no Gailiber or Cernis), but no announced replacement route yet...


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## Radchenister (18 May 2013)

Today's route:
http://www.velowire.com/article/734/en/the-new-race-route-of-the-14th-stage-of-the-giro-d-italia-2013--cervere->-bardonecchia.html

Rider reaction:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Tbf2vQkAc&feature=youtu.be


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Eurosport on Mute and watching Tour of Norway instead now.


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## rich p (18 May 2013)

This was suggested elsewhere as the new route tomorrow, maybe
(the red boxed section)


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

rich p said:


> This was suggested elsewhere as the new route tomorrow, maybe
> (the red boxed section)


Inner Ring reporting that stage will finish in Les Verneys, just above Valloire and start of Galibier pass


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## Radchenister (18 May 2013)

Man, I am going to have to abandon the race and do some gardening if EuroSport carry this on much longer  !


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

8km to go and a 4' lead for the break. Three Italians up front. Too bad they are not on TV !!


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Just Paolini and Colbrelli at the front now. I predict an Italian stage winner....


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Sky will want to catch these guys and try get some bonus seconds for Uran.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Michele Acquarone is now saying that they still might do the whole route tomorrow. I doubt it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Michele Acquarone is now saying that they still might do the whole route tomorrow. I doubt it.


I like a bit of optimism. Hopefully the French snow plow drivers will not go on strike then.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Sky will want to catch these guys and try get some bonus seconds for Uran.


 
Won't happen, but Uran might try to jump and get a few seconds back on Nibali.


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## Crackle (18 May 2013)

Henao sent up the road apparently


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Read a cracking tweet earlier.... "Lombardy in 2001 was like this. We saw about 30 seconds. For all we knew, the riders could have spent the day in the boozer"


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

I guess we are all just watching the cyclingnews feed and repeating it back to each other. I've opened a beer instead... cheers!


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

ha ha....check out buddy's sign with Wiggo on it...needs updated.


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## Crackle (18 May 2013)

I was actually consulting Gypsy Rose Lee and the tea leaves


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I guess we are all just watching the cyclingnews feed and repeating it back to each other. I've opened a beer instead... cheers!


good point.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

I may have to reconsider my earlier assessment that the break would not be caught...


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

I have said it before, and no doubt will say it again, boring bast'd that I am, but there is an argument for pro teams to train in Scotland, that way they will think shite weather and crappy roads are the norm, then positively fly if things ever get better. Forget Majorca.


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## yello (18 May 2013)

> *17:25:37 CEST*
> 
> And the maglia rosa group is now just 43 seconds down on the leaders.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I may have to reconsider my earlier assessment that the break would not be caught...


I like your honesty.


----------



## VamP (18 May 2013)

I just got in from an MTB race, hoping to catch the end. It's taken me a while to work WTF is going on


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Hopefully Cavendish & Co will be within any time limits.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I like your honesty.


 
I like to adapt my opinion to the circumstances...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Nibali tries it on... but we have no idea how it's working out.


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

How frustrating is this ?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

"here's a lone rider, its two riders...." lol...


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

more beer needed...


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Santambrogio?


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Nibbles just gave Santambrogio the nod for the win there. I think.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Someone may have won.


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

Great result for Nibali with the time gap there. Santambrogio on my fantasy list too, wa-hey.


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## Noodley (18 May 2013)

santaclaus wins it


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Nibali riding so cleverly at the moment.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

"Thank-you - join us again tomorrow for equally insightful coverage of the Giro"


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## Crackle (18 May 2013)

That was like being at an actual stage, waiting for the riders to appear


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

It seems that Evans has lost around 45 seconds on Nibali with the time bonuses, and he may even have lost a bit to Uran too. Scarpani has lost even more.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

'kin heck, Scarpers lost a shed load of time there, but the big loser looks like Gesink.


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## VamP (18 May 2013)

over 90 seconds for Scarponi. He looked devastated physically.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Betancur made up a little, coming in third. Surely no-one is going to beat Nibbles now?


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## Strathlubnaig (18 May 2013)

I am inspired. I am away out for another wee ride now.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2013)

Gesink loses 4 minutes!


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## rich p (18 May 2013)

Nibali's been nailed on for a week now barring crashes and mechanicals. The best we can hope for is a scrap for the minor placings I think.


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## beastie (18 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Gesink loses 4 minutes!





Flying_Monkey said:


> Betancur made up a little, coming in third. Surely no-one is going to beat Nibbles now?


Again Gesink flatters to deceive. 

Nibali has looked the strongest by far, and only Evans is still in touch(only just mind) but..... the last week is very hard and Nibali will not feel safe yet. He must be in super form coz he gave away 8 seconds in bonifications to give Santambrogio the stage. Not a bad tactic that, one in the bank etc.


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## Crackle (18 May 2013)

rich p said:


> Nibali's been nailed on for a week now barring crashes and mechanicals. The best we can hope for is a scrap for the minor placings I think.


 
Santa ambrosia and Uran Duran looking good for a third place scrap, unless Evans cracks somewhere. Rafal Majka's slow rise is looking interesting and that each way bet on DiLuca has gone south, I knew I'd put the mockers on him.

Edit: Sorry, forget that, it was Scarponi wasn't it, not DiLuca. Still going South though


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## smutchin (18 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Again Gesink flatters to deceive.



I think I put the mockers on him by saying he was looking good yesterday.


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## rich p (18 May 2013)

You're going to have to cope without my insightful analysis next week. I'm guessing you'll cope!


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## threebikesmcginty (18 May 2013)

rich p said:


> You're going to have to cope without my insightful analysis next week. I'm guessing you'll cope!



What...but...wait...but...


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## ColinJ (18 May 2013)

Fingers crossed for tomorrow's stage. They are now hoping to run it as planned as far as the Pantani memorial only just over 4 km short of the summit of the Galibier. The start has been set back by 30 minutes. Obviously, this is subject to change at short notice! (Link)


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## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Okay after Sky's coverage i think i just about got the details of todays stage...............

Wiggins won, Nibbles dropped 10 minutes and Hesjedal recovered his 25 minute deficit??? 

Sound right?


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## ColinJ (19 May 2013)

I gave up when Eurosport started showing adverts for their Giro coverage when they should have been _doing_ their Giro coverage. I put it back on in time to _hear_ the last 4 km and _see_ the last 0.4 km!


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## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I gave up when Eurosport started showing adverts for their Giro coverage when they should have been _doing_ their Giro coverage. I put it back on in time to _hear_ the last 4 km and _see_ the last 0.4 km!


There is a showing today at 11:30am on Eurosport 2. Hopefully it's not a repeat of yesterdays nonsense.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Inner Ring is saying that the conditions look okay, which means that the first climb will not be neutralized, although the stage will still finish at the Pantani monument. We should have a race... and maybe even TV coverage.


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## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Inner Ring is saying that the conditions look okay, which means that the first climb will not be neutralized, although the stage will still finish at the Pantani monument. We should have a race... and maybe even TV coverage.


Failing that we will get some good footage of the finish line for a few hours.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Failing that we will get some good footage of the finish line for a few hours.


 
It's at times like these that you almost miss Duffield's extensive knowledge of local food and wine, or at least descriptions of what he had for dinner the previous night. Almost.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's at times like these that you almost miss Duffield's extensive knowledge of local food and wine, or at least descriptions of what he had for dinner the previous night. Almost.


I quite like his voice too. I can happily listen to it whilst staring at the finish line. Sean Kelly's on the other hand..............................

My better half can just about handle me watching cycling "all the f*cking time"" but as soon as Kelly starts talking she leaves the room. So he does have his good points.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

RE Duffield - This is funny

"David Duffield is probalby the most incompetent buffoon working in television".



​ 
​


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> "David Duffield is probalby the most incompetent buffoon working in television".


 
Did they forget about Liggett and Sherwen?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Did they forget about Liggett and Sherwen?


Ligget the legend? Surely not. 

I do think it's a personal preference but i really do struggle with Kelly.​"This one is a really technical and fast decent". IT'S DESCENT MAN!!!!! ​


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Ligget the legend? Surely not.


 
No, that must be his cousin. The one I am referring to is Liggett the bell-end.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> No, that must be his cousin. The one I am referring to is Liggett the bell-end.


 


Not a fan then? Who's doing the TDF?


----------



## kedab (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Not a fan then? Who's doing the TDF?


Imlach and boardman presenting and commentating and doing everything in between i frikin well hope...please don't subject me to liggett and his lapdog, they make me want to cry


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Failing that we will get some good footage of the finish line for a few hours.



And failing that, we will get endless clips of skiers falling over to the accompaniment of oompah band music.


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

I like oompah music, I may just watch.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

The epg is promising 15 mins of "WATTS" between this morning's ToC and Giro highlights programmes on Eurosport 2, so tune in at 11.15 if that's your thing.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Highlights showed 20 minutes of the finish line but at least got 10 minutes of the end. 

I liked how Santambrogio looked back to see if he could take the stage and Nibbles nodded his approval. At least Sean Kelly noticed that unlike his canny partner in crime.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Missed it yesterday so watching the highlights now... The commentators were questioning whether Nibali let Santambrogio take the stage or couldn't pass him. They must have missed the moment about 300m from the line, when Santambrogio looked round as if to ask the question and Nibz gave a very clear nod to let him know he wouldn't contest the finish. I mean, ffs, they finally get some action to comment on and they're looking the other way? [edit: crossposted with pedrosanchezo]

Chapeau to Evans - to be that close at the finish on that climb, in those conditions... Looks as if he really is back to something like his best.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I liked how Santambrogio looked back to see if he could take the stage and Nibbles nodded his approval. At least Sean Kelly noticed that unlike his canny partner in crime.



Did Kelly notice it? He didn't mention it explicitly when DQ asked the question, just seemed to assume it was probably the case.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Did Kelly notice it? He didn't mention it explicitly when DQ asked the question, just seemed to assume it was probably the case.


He might not have but Kelly knew by Nibbles body language. The commentary leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Weather update (from Cyclingnews): At the stage start (Cesana Torinese, km 0), 8 degrees Celsius, sunshine, some cloud. On Col du Mont Cenis (km 58), 1 degree Celsius, perhaps snow. At Valloire (km 131), 8 degrees Celsius, perhaps rain. Les Verneys (km 134), 2 degrees Celsius, perhaps snow.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Does anyone know if the full stage is to go ahead? Been looking forward to this one.


----------



## addictfreak (19 May 2013)

Is today's stage on Eurosport?

Can't see it on the schedule, only highlights tonight.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Eurosport 2 - 1:30pm
​


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Any truth in the rumours that the soigneurs will be handing out duffle coats, balaclavas and mittens?


----------



## addictfreak (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Eurosport 2 - 1:30pm
> ​




Cheers, for some reason it's not showing up on the schedule on my iPad.


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Any truth in the rumours that the soigneurs will be handing out duffle coats, balaclavas and mittens?


None whatsoever. And UCI testing would prevent such a thing happening


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Apparently, the peloton is neutralizing the first climb itself because it was so hard yesterday and they don't want the sprinters et al. to finish outside the time gap today. 

I was shaking my head at some comments I saw elsewhere accuing Cav of 'whinging' because he had a go at the officials yesterday. It was so cold yesterday that Scarponi couldn't even remove his own gloves at the end. It was inhuman. The people making these accusations couldn't even imagine what it would be like to cycle up a mountain in those conditions.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Apparently, the peloton is neutralizing the first climb itself because it was so hard yesterday and they don't want the sprinters et al. to finish outside the time gap today.
> 
> I was shaking my head at some comments I saw elsewhere accuing Cav of 'whinging' because he had a go at the officials yesterday. It was so cold yesterday that Scarponi couldn't even remove his own gloves at the end. It was inhuman. The people making these accusations couldn't even imagine what it would be like to cycle up a mountain in those conditions.


Yeh it makes for good telly (when it's actually shown) but for the riders it is bordering on sadistic. 

Was hoping for better weather today but looks like another cold one with the race going up to the Pantani monument.


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Apparently, the peloton is neutralizing the first climb itself because it was so hard yesterday and they don't want the sprinters et al. to finish outside the time gap today.
> 
> I was shaking my head at some comments I saw elsewhere accuing Cav of 'whinging' because he had a go at the officials yesterday. It was so cold yesterday that Scarponi couldn't even remove his own gloves at the end. It was inhuman. The people making these accusations couldn't even imagine what it would be like to cycle up a mountain in those conditions.


 
If they were properly dressed in duffle coats, balaclavas and mittens then they'd be fine. They sound like those teenagers you see in just shirts when it's snowing...


----------



## Radchenister (19 May 2013)

Back to the gardening then  !


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Hmmm this is going to be slow stuff. I could go out on the bike but i've not been off it in a week and i should rest. Then theres the weather - the faintest drizzle but warm. I can actually see the little b*starding midges at my window!!!! Devil creatures!!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> If they were properly dressed in duffle coats, balaclavas and mittens then they'd be fine. They sound like those teenagers you see in just shirts when it's snowing...


Some of the riders aren't even wearing gloves! No wonder they are cold. 
​


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Hmmm this is going to be slow stuff. I could go out on the bike but i've not been off it in a week and i should rest. Then theres the weather - the faintest drizzle but warm. I can actually see the little b*starding midges at my window!!!! Devil creatures!!


It's all extra protein. Marginal gains


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

Just switched to the coverage now (I'd been watching the MotoGP) and I didn't realise these guys had a skiing holiday planned. They'll be wrapping up and taking the descent carefully, I'll bet.


----------



## Radchenister (19 May 2013)

So what is the score, are they racing or not then?


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Sounds as if a few of them are racing now. Weening, being pursued by Rabottini, Pirazzi, Chalapud, Borghini and Visconti.


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

Anyone got a decent live video feed, none of the ones I can find are working!!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 May 2013)

http://cricfree.tv/update/euro2.php


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> So what is the score, are they racing or not then?


 
Yes they are, Nibali group is just over 3 minutes behind the leader, 65km to go


----------



## Radchenister (19 May 2013)

I've been out ... so the guys who broke off from the main group, did the rest of the group know this was happening?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I've been out ... so the guys who broke off from the main group, did the rest of the group know this was happening?


 
Commentators seemed to think so, though they did think they would pull up and wait after they reached the top of the climb


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It's all extra protein. Marginal gains


I am vegetarian.


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

The lead group are currently racing a train...


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

I bet the water in the river is a bit bracing.


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

The last 2 posts were brought to you by David Duffield


----------



## Crackle (19 May 2013)

Was that Nibali in the pink jersey building a snowman?


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

A pedantic aside; with reference to commentator's comments, if it's "Giro" (and no doubt the vuelta, I'll have to keep my ears open) then why does the co-commentator (whoever he is) say the "tour OF France"? (and, I've just heard, the "col OF telegraph" ) Why the partial translations?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Gesink attacks, and then Henao goes on the attack again...


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

yello said:


> A pedantic aside; with reference to commentator's comments, if it's "Giro" (and no doubt the vuelta, I'll have to keep my ears open) then why does the co-commentator (whoever he is) say the "tour OF France"? (and, I've just heard, the "col OF telegraph" ) Why the partial translations?


 
I'd imagine because it was Sean Kelly saying it.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Martinez is with Gesink. Henao has Kiselowski, and those four are now together, chasing the leaders.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> I've been out ... so the guys who broke off from the main group, did the rest of the group know this was happening?



Pirazzi and Chalapud attacked near the top of Mt Cenis, for the GPM points, but a few other riders went with them and Weening stayed away on the descent so the others continued the chase. 

Bizarrely, Lotto were setting the pace when the peloton decided it was time to reel them in. 

They're on the Telegraphe now and the proper racing has started. Henao and Kiserlovski have just caught the Gesink and Martinez chase group a little way up the road from the peloton.


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I'd imagine because it was Sean Kelly saying it.


 
It's an amusing insistence whoever it is.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Astana looking comfortable on the front of the peloton. No Vanotti today, of course - sounded like a very nasty crash he had yesterday, broken ribs and punctured lung.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 May 2013)

Ag2R maybe trying for stage wins to get some points before they sit out the Dauphiné.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Di Luca has also joined the Gesink / Henao group. Boo, hiss...


----------



## ayceejay (19 May 2013)

yello said:


> A pedantic aside; with reference to commentator's comments, if it's "Giro" (and no doubt the vuelta, I'll have to keep my ears open) then why does the co-commentator (whoever he is) say the "tour OF France"? (and, I've just heard, the "col OF telegraph" ) Why the partial translations?


 
Some may remember an episode of Tiz Waz wherein a young (maybe 10 years old) girl was reporting on the Grande Prix, to everyone's amusement she insisted it was Grand Pricks because that was what was written, and she wasn't referring to Chris Tarrant.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Gesink looking good so far but this is suicidal, surely? He'll never keep this up all the way to the finish. Henao seems intent to sit in his wheel.

Nibali looks supremely unconcerned by Gesink's move.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Well, Henao is riding for Uran - the idea being that Uran might be able to ride up to him on the last climb, and if not, well then Henao has the chance of a stage - whereas Gesink is riding for himself - he has no other option.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Mind you the Gesink group isn't really moving very fast right now, just staying about a minute ahead of the peloton and 1.45 behind the leaders. No-man's land.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Henao seems to be pushing on now. Interesting.

Edit: no, he was just chasing Gesink, and now he's easing back off...


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

oh dear, I've lost my feed....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Henao seemed to stit up for a while and have a think (or maybe consult the DS), anyway he seems to be coming back up to Gesink now.


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

yello said:


> oh dear, I've lost my feed....


 
Me too


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

got another one:

http://cricfree.tv/update/euro2.php


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Good to see Chalapud hanging in there. Could be a useful ally for Henao and/or Uran further up the climb...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

I don't think the Gesink / Henao group will stay away on this descent.


----------



## Radchenister (19 May 2013)

That's a Marmotte, do I get the commentator prize!?!


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

What was that animal? Harmon wouldn't have passed up such a good opportunity to talk about something other than the cycling. [edit: crossposted...]


----------



## Schooner (19 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> That's a Marmotte, do I get the commentator prize!?!


Marmotte huh! Very impressive. I was trying to work out why there was a beaver on the mountain.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

"A troubled man from a troubled era"? How euphemistic can you be, Quigley?


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Yeah you might as well just come out and say he was drugged up to the eyeballs...!


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

All over for Chalapud but several other Colombians still in the peloton...


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

...and after a brief interlude, I'm back on line. Did I miss any marmottes?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Snow...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 May 2013)

Schooner said:


> Marmotte huh! Very impressive. I was trying to work out why there was a beaver on the mountain.


little beggars break into your tent and steal your food too


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 May 2013)

looks just like a ride up through glen shee...but a bit longer.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Go Duarte!


----------



## Radchenister (19 May 2013)

Soon be time for a Vin Chaud!


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Visconti might get this. It doesn't look like Rabottini has the beans to catch him. Sanchez heading up the road ahead of the peloton but he's not got too far left to go...


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Finally Uran has come up to join Nibali at the front of the main group...


----------



## Noodley (19 May 2013)

They should at least have a scarf on in that!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Nibali goes again!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Back together...


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

But didn't get far...


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 May 2013)

Nibbles just seeing who is biting


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Incredible ride by Visconti.


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

All a bit cat and mouse...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Duarte goes... Santambrogio with him.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Betancur.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Vamos Betancur!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

It's all kicking off...


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Visconti has a 200m advantage with 400m to go


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

If only it was the full Galibier...


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Chapeau to Visconti


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2013)

Great win for Visconti.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 May 2013)

no change in the GC then.


----------



## Buddfox (19 May 2013)

Betancur in white I think


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

Gesink loses more time. Pozzovivo suffering too.


----------



## yello (19 May 2013)

Break out the bovril. That was gruelling. Epic stuff.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 May 2013)

Glad he held on, he looks completely knackered


----------



## beastie (19 May 2013)

Another win for Dr Ferrari though....


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Another win for Dr Ferrari though....



Quigley mentioned how fitting it was that he should win at the Pantani monument - though he claimed he meant because it was a solo break...


----------



## thom (19 May 2013)

Interesting Guardian article - DB on Brad's illness etc - so Brad had a slow puncture in the ITT which may have cost him 1 min on top of the bike change.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (19 May 2013)

thom said:


> Interesting Guardian article - DB on Brad's illness etc - so Brad had a slow puncture in the ITT which may have cost him 1 min on top of the bike change.


As Sean Kelly would say "that's bike racing". Sean might also say he lost more time on the "decents". 

I hope he (Wiggins) draws a line under this and goes and nails the Dauphine. His next race is a biggie. 
​


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2013)

Another great blog from Robert Millar...


----------



## yello (20 May 2013)

I was about to post the same link FM. It's well worth a read.



> This Giro d' Italia is not really bike racing any more, it's become survival training. When it ought to be about who has the physical ability to still race after a fortnight, on the road the cold and the rain have turned proceedings into a bit of a farce. And I can't imagine anyone connected to the race is finding it funny or remotely enjoyable.


----------



## beastie (20 May 2013)

If the weather doesn't pick up then mr Nibbles will win, he rode the Galibier yesterday with total composure. If the weather picks up for the Dolomites then Cadel and Uran may be more inclined to give it a go. They both need to make up time on thu(TT) to boost morale for the monstrous two stages that follow. If anyone is gonna attack then the Friday is the obvious stage, like the short stage to the Alp in 2011 le tour. A hard pace from early on then full gas attack over the Stelvio, then best man wins on the final climb. ..... Which will probably be Nibali anyway


----------



## Beebo (20 May 2013)

Good blog from Robert Millar.
It's good to know that even the no-expense-spared pro kit is neither wind or water proof in that kind of weather.
It makes me feel less bothered about the cheapo stuff I use.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2013)

Calling all Colombians!


----------



## Dave Davenport (20 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Calling all Colombians!


 
Slightly OT, but I wouldn't mind seeing the TdF go back to national teams now we could put together a good one


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Slightly OT, but I wouldn't mind seeing the TdF go back to national teams now we could put together a good one


 
There was a serious suggestion made along these lines to ASO not long ago - they shot it down. But there is always a certain amount of cooperation between teams on different grounds, including nationality - It's clear the smaller Italian teams have been working together a bit in the Giro, for example.


----------



## Boris Bajic (20 May 2013)

That's the second day off these boys have had since they started!

Hardest endurance sport, my arse!

Why, my youngest could keep up with them on a fixie with flat tyres on buckled rims. 

They pamper them; that's what they do. They pamper them.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (20 May 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> That's the second day off these boys have had since they started!
> 
> Hardest endurance sport, my arse!
> 
> ...


They don't make em like they used to! Wont be long now before they get a scraped knee and start rolling about tapping the ground in seeming agony - only to then get back up and be all smiles 2 minutes later. Divas. I blame football culture, aka diving culture.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 May 2013)

Quite by chance, I was in the valley next to the Galibier as it happened (just over in Switzerland to nominate PMcQ - hard work but someone has to do it) and I'd just like to say this weather's all wrong.


----------



## beastie (20 May 2013)

Weather forecast is shoot for the weekend. Possible route changes etc. Rain with a temp in Bormio (1800 metres) approx 4C which means freezing on the stelvio etc. This Giro was really interesting for the first week, now it may just end up being a bore. #anticlimax


----------



## RoyPSB (21 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Weather forecast is s*** for the weekend. Possible route changes etc. Rain with a temp in Bormio (1800 metres) approx 4C which means freezing on the stelvio etc. This Giro was really interesting for the first week, now it may just end up being a bore. #anticlimax


 
Have to agree with you. The awful weather and the lack of competition for Nibali is making this a very boring Giro.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 May 2013)

You could argue it lacks two ingredients. 

A challenge from Team Sky & Peter Sagan. 

Both Nibali and Cav have little in the way of competition. 
​


----------



## grumpyoldgit (21 May 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> That's the second day off these boys have had since they started!
> 
> Hardest endurance sport, my arse!
> 
> ...


Fourteen of us livin int shoe box int middle oft road.....


----------



## Radchenister (21 May 2013)

Will reserve judgement for a while but have been drifting away from it; can't help but wonder if the time bonuses are also anti competitive in the circumstances. On the one hand you might imagine that it would make for competitive finishes but all it appears to do is result in a leader's perk.


----------



## The Couch (21 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Will reserve judgement for a while but have been drifting away from it; can't help but wonder if the time bonuses are also anti competitive in the circumstances. On the one hand you might imagine that it would make for competitive finishes but all it appears to do is result in a leader's perk.


Well... if we would have had better-than-Nibali timetrialists standing in front of NIbali (Wiggins, Evans, Gesink ??) then the time bonusses would be the extra push for Nibali (and the other climbers) to go for them. However - against what everyone was thinking before the start - after the first week we had (one of) the best climber already in the Pink Jersey, so it might have worked a bit counterproductive in this second week - since nobody wanted to burn too much energy with still another week to go (and most likely just end up being countered by Nibali and actually loosing more time) -.
Then again I do believe that in the 3rd week it should work as a stimulant again... it's money time and whatever gap you still have to make up (whether it is vs. 1st, 2nd, 3rd place or even white jersey) the bonus time at the finish line will be too appealing for all.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Will reserve judgement for a while but have been drifting away from it; can't help but wonder if the time bonuses are also anti competitive in the circumstances. On the one hand you might imagine that it would make for competitive finishes but all it appears to do is result in a leader's perk.


 
I like the time bonuses - they give an extra incentive for well-timed late attacks.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

You're all being a little churlish. I am brimming over with admiration for the way Nibali has bossed this race. He's taken chances in awful conditions, ruled imperiously in the mountains and even put in an impressive time trial - impressive by any standards, never mind a non-specialist. 

There's nothing boring about watching Mr Nibbles. 

Also Carlos Betancur has been great to watch in the mountains - his little dig to beat Niemiec to the line on Sunday was pure class.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Both Nibali and Cav have little in the way of competition.



Cav has worked extremely hard for every one of his stage wins. They haven't come easy at all. Viviani and Bouhanni ran him close in the early flat stages and for him to have even been in contention at the finale on Friday's stage is mind-blowingly impressive.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Oh yeah, and don't forget Uran frooming away off the front for his stage win. Nothing boring about that!


----------



## Radchenister (21 May 2013)

Just checking we're all still awake  - let's see if the race wakes up as well...


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

And another thing... the resurgence of Evans as a competitive force has been fantastic. He could still make this race very interesting if he gets his time trial mojo back on Thursday.

Really, the only disappointments have been Wiggins and Hesjedal, and especially in Wiggo's case, it isn't his fault.

(I would say Gesink and Scarponi have been disappointing too but they've only performed as expected.)


----------



## The Couch (21 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... Also Carlos Betancur has been great to watch in the mountains - his little dig to beat Niemiec to the line on Sunday was pure class.


Don't know what you guys think about it, but for Betancur it even seems as if he really doesn't need to dig very deep when he is climbing and still has tons of energy left.

When he was in the peloton the day Uran won, he seemed to "play with the pedals" (although he didn't manage to bridge the gap of course).
I had the same feeling in the "sprint" with Majka and Niemiec, while watching it, I didn't doubt that he would win it, since he - again - seemed to look like he had still a lot in the tank (though I guess it must be the way he looks otherwise he would have dropped them)


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Well, Santambrogio and Nibali dropped him the day before, so I wouldn't say he's finding it that easy. 

He's a canny rider, stays in the peloton until near the end and doesn't go off on suicidal long solo breaks like certain other riders. Plus he has a decent sprint for someone his size. If he can learn to TT too, he'll be a real GC contender.

On Sunday's stage, he'd tried a late solo attack but couldn't make it stick, so when the others caught him, he just stuck with them and saved his efforts for the sprint. That's intelligent bike racing.


----------



## Radchenister (21 May 2013)

Just looking over the stages and weather combo, they've got more storms to look forward to later in the week when amongst the mountains.

Edit: although checking Venice and the higher mountain forecasts in parallel, it looks like it might not be as bad as previously.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's a canny rider, stays in the peloton until near the end and doesn't go off on suicidal long solo breaks like certain other riders. Plus he has a decent sprint for someone his size. If he can learn to TT too, he'll be a real GC contender.


 
I remember saying exactly the same thing about Henao last year - maybe it is a characteristic of Colombian riders and the way they have been accustomed to race?


----------



## Noodley (21 May 2013)

I always liken grand tours to test matches, plenty going on but maybe not "exciting" enough for those who want 20/20.


----------



## The Couch (21 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I remember saying exactly the same thing about Henao last year - maybe it is a characteristic of Colombian riders and the way they have been accustomed to race?


Well, if you look at the result of the 1st TT in the Giro, it seems that Henao has defintely improved on that already
(although he didn't have the "luck" that Kelderman crashed in the first part and that he could do a duo-TT during that long flat bit)


----------



## The Couch (21 May 2013)

Well, it seems that De Greef will actually have a good plan for today (unlike the stage where Navardauskas won and the last one which was won by Visconti).
... of course he wasn't in the initial break-away (that would have been too smart), but still you would expect him to get back during this climb

Then again with Kelderman in the break-away, I don't expect the peloton (Saxo and Ag2r) to hand out a very big time lead, so for me the escape isn't granted to make it to the end yet

(In case you are wondering, yes... I dare to question his racing decisions )


----------



## yello (21 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I always liken grand tours to test matches, plenty going on but maybe not "exciting" enough for those who want 20/20.


 
A nice analogy.

I have to admit to having insufficient knowledge to really appreciate all that happens in cycle racing. It doesn't stop me watching though! I'm reminded of making a similar remark on a rugby forum once - a response came back 'neither do I mate, and I play the game!'


----------



## cisamcgu (21 May 2013)

yello said:


> ... similar remark on a rugby forum once - a response came back 'neither do I mate, and I play the game!'


 
Rugby is a complete mystery to me, and I think, most of the players. There is a big ruck, ref blows the whistle, sticks his arm up in a random direction and everyone trots away from the maul and gets ready to restart .. even commentators in international matches seem to have no idea what the whistle was for most of the time - still excellent entertainment

anyway ... back to the cycling ...


----------



## Buddfox (21 May 2013)

Well it can be both exciting and an anti-climax at the same time. It's just a shame that what looked like it was going to be an absolutely barn-storming parcours two weeks ago has been rather undone by the weather. If the big mountain stages this week are neutralised (either by the organisers or the riders themselves) it will be hard not to feel a little bit disappointed. That's not to take anything away from Nibali, or indeed any of the many entertaining sub-plots which continue to emerge. I think David Millar mentioned this in his blog, but the competition for places 3 - 10 should be very entertaining, with the bonus seconds in particular playing into that debate. But I do hope the stages run as planned.


----------



## Dave Davenport (21 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> David Millar


 
'Robert'


----------



## Buddfox (21 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> 'Robert'


 
Crapbag. I do that every time!!!


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Crapbag. I do that every time!!!


 
At least you didn't call him Judith.


----------



## Noodley (21 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Crapbag. I do that every time!!!


 
Beginners error  Just keep watching me, rich and FM and you'll soon pick it up  Deep knowledge of the peloton and all that...


----------



## ColinJ (21 May 2013)

Someone should tell the human bicycle that the wheels are going backwards!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Beginners error  Just keep watching me, rich and FM and you'll soon pick it up  Deep knowledge of the peloton and all that...


 
Deep, very deep...


----------



## thom (21 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> At least you didn't call him Judith.


Arndt you being a little clever there?


----------



## beastie (21 May 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Well it can be both exciting and an anti-climax at the same time. It's just a shame that what looked like it was going to be an absolutely barn-storming parcours two weeks ago has been rather undone by the weather. If the big mountain stages this week are neutralised (either by the organisers or the riders themselves) it will be hard not to feel a little bit disappointed. That's not to take anything away from Nibali, or indeed any of the many entertaining sub-plots which continue to emerge. I think David Millar mentioned this in his blog, but the competition for places 3 - 10 should be very entertaining, with the bonus seconds in particular playing into that debate. But I do hope the stages run as planned.


This is more what I was aiming at previously, I though this years route was excellent, but the bad weather has made it hard for aggressive racing. Nibali looks the strongest ( and is coping very well with the conditions) and I really like him as a rider. Just disappointed that the big stages have been affected.


----------



## beastie (21 May 2013)

Any chance of an attack by a GC contender today?


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2013)

Any chance of Cav staying with this for the sprint?


----------



## thom (21 May 2013)

Pirazzi's swashbuckling attacks show a lot of arrrgghhhttt !


----------



## jifdave (21 May 2013)

Im starting to really like betancour


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Vamos Carlos! I'm not sure I'd fancy his chances in a head-to-head with Sanchez though, if it comes to that.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

beastie said:


> Any chance of an attack by a GC contender today?


 
Only Nibbles!


----------



## Buddfox (21 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Beginners error  Just keep watching me, rich and FM and you'll soon pick it up  Deep knowledge of the peloton and all that...


 
Chapeau...


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2013)

Oooof, Santambragio 2 mins back. Didn't expect that today.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Uran is quite a tidy sprinter.. wonder if he might nick this.

edit: Or maybe Evans is more likely.


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2013)

I somehow missed that group of three get away.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Great stuff. That was more like a one-day classic than a GT stage.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> I somehow missed that group of three get away.


 
Me too!


----------



## kedab (21 May 2013)

haha! top sneakiness and top celebration by the movistar rider - I enjoyed that - even with the French comms, which is all I could get to stream properly


----------



## ColinJ (21 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> Any chance of Cav staying with this for the sprint?


Er ...







*NO!*


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Cav has worked extremely hard for every one of his stage wins. They haven't come easy at all. Viviani and Bouhanni ran him close in the early flat stages and for him to have even been in contention at the finale on Friday's stage is mind-blowingly impressive.


100% agree but if they all give 100% effort Cav will still win. These guys aren't letting Cav win. They are giving all they have and losing. Sagan might be able to steal the odd stage from Cav, even at his best. Cav tweeted as much himself............


----------



## kedab (21 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> 100% agree but if they all give 100% effort Cav will still win. These guys aren't letting Cav win. They are giving all they have and losing. Sagan might be able to steal the odd stage from Cav, even at his best. Cav tweeted as much himself............


which is why bouhanni was chucking his toys out of his pram on a couple occasions - which I heartily enjoyed seeing


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (21 May 2013)

kedab said:


> which is why bouhanni was chucking his toys out of his pram on a couple occasions - which I heartily enjoyed seeing


+1. Oddly enough i have not taken to that man.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 May 2013)

Enjoyed that a lot. Nice steep climb, and a wicked fast descent. I was hoping that Duarte might lead it over the top and then hammer down the other side, but he hasn't quite got the strength. The only thing it's really done to the GC is put a little more distance between the Top 3 and the rest, with Santambrogio losing so much.


----------



## jifdave (21 May 2013)

kedab said:


> which is why bouhanni was chucking his toys out of his pram on a couple occasions - which I heartily enjoyed seeing


 enjoyed it too... shows hes a top competitor to react to a loss like that


----------



## kedab (21 May 2013)

jifdave said:


> enjoyed it too... shows hes a top competitor to react to a loss like that


i'd agree with you on that - there'd be something amiss if he wasn't fussed but like pedro', I also haven't taken to him.


----------



## beastie (21 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Enjoyed that a lot. Nice steep climb, and a wicked fast descent. .



Jeez Sanchez fair knows how to ride downhill doesn't he? I could watch him descend all day.


----------



## lukesdad (21 May 2013)

When you 3 starting the tutorial then ?


----------



## oldroadman (21 May 2013)

Nibali came back at Sammy Sanchez when he was descending well, another great bike handler. Best I ever saw was Salvodelli, absolutely amazing, he seemded to be able to push way beyond what most people would dare, incredible confidence and ability. And if you are not a particularly good climber, being tidy downhill can be very useful, and make DS's happy when you can be ready for a bit more work!

Bouhanni is a bit, er, erratic. He's getting a reputation which will not do him any favours, a bit like a ceertain Mr Abdu from a while ago. Mind, he could crash all alone without any help whatsoever!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 May 2013)

And Gavazzi DSQ'd for taking too many tows on the uphill bit. No Brescia for him then, one less sprinter too.


----------



## The Couch (21 May 2013)

Make that 2 sprinters: Goss - who has been disappointing anyway this year - is too sick to continue and has quitted


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (22 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> I always liken grand tours to test matches, plenty going on but maybe not "exciting" enough for those who want 20/20.


I always liken cricket to paint drying, but then i think that's unfair on the sport of paint drying.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2013)

oldroadman said:


> Best I ever saw was Salvodelli, absolutely amazing, he seemded to be able to push way beyond what most people would dare, incredible confidence and ability.


 
Agreed on 'Il Falco': he was extraordinary, he just seemed to drop like a stone.

Today is going to be tricky - the Inner Ring's assessment is that it probably isn't the sprinter's stage that it might look like - apparently the final climb and the descent are narrow and there isn't really the space for a team to shepherd a sprinter, so it may well be one for the all-rounders. If Cav did manage to stay with it and win, it would be one of his most impressive wins ever, but he's already been so impressive in this Giro that I wouldn't rule it out entirely...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2013)

Uh-oh... snow and freezing conditions set to wipe out the Dolomite stages...


----------



## Radchenister (22 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Uh-oh... snow and freezing conditions set to wipe out the Dolomite stages...


 
Yep, the high mountains are forecast 20 cm Thursday night, 14 cm Friday and 10 cm Saturday - get your skis out!


----------



## Spartak (22 May 2013)

Radchenister said:


> Yep, the high mountains are forecast 20 cm Thursday night, 14 cm Friday and 10 cm Saturday - get your skis out!


 
Forecast for snow on the Chilterns tomorrow


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Uh-oh... snow and freezing conditions set to wipe out the Dolomite stages...


That's disappointing but not really a surprise with this years weather, I hope they manage to find something as exciting for those two stages.


----------



## oldroadman (22 May 2013)

This must be one of the worst of the Giri for weather in years, moving it earlier so that the Giro/Tour combination is possible has maybe not been the best idea. Simple really, the weather in the high passes during May is likely to be , a few weeks later makes a huge difference. Even the big mountains in the Tour are sometimes impassable right into June, it's only July onwards that sees the sun sort things out.
I feel quite sorry for the Giro organisers, having to replan all the time, but then it might benefit Cav in hanging on to the points jeresy.


----------



## Zofo (22 May 2013)

Spartak said:


> Forecast for snow on the Chilterns tomorrow


 
Its nice and dry/warm in my shed


----------



## ColinJ (22 May 2013)

Ooh - my Tablet has just decided to update Eurosport Player, mid-coverage! Perhaps it will fix the jerky pictures that it has been displaying recently? (I'm not holding my breath, given the problems with the last few updates.) 

It's on again and the picture is ... _still_ jerky - damn!


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

70 km to go. The break has 5 mins on the peloton. OPQS at the front for Cav.






If it comes back together, the sprinters will have 16 km to close any time they lose on the bump at Crosara. But what with many sprinters already bowed out, if Cav makes it over in reasonable shape then he should have it his own way without a lead-out in the finale as on previous stages - I know this is a bit nebulous as to what "reasonable" means but my point is that sprint trains are less necessary at this stage of the race, on stages like this with a sprinter like Cav.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

As FM pointed out earlier, there is not a lot of room at the end for organized sprint trains, so with luck Cavendish will just worm his way to the front and then put the hammer down.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

Spartak said:


> Forecast for snow on the Chilterns tomorrow


7 C out in darkest Perthshire hilly bits today, fresh Northerly, but nice all the same.


----------



## ColinJ (22 May 2013)

thom said:


> If it comes back together, the sprinters will have 16 km to close any time they lose on the bump at Crosara.


It's a bit tougher than 'a bump' though, isn't it - around 5 km at 7%. I reckon that will see Cav off. If he manages to remain in contention and do something today, I will be suitably impressed!


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> As FM pointed out earlier, there is not a lot of room at the end for organized sprint trains, so with luck Cavendish will just worm his way to the front and then put the hammer down.


My point is that at this stage of the race, a fair few of the riders reliant on organised sprint trains have dropped out already and Cav isn't reliant on trains.


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> It's a bit tougher than 'a bump' though, isn't it - around 5 km at 7%. I reckon that will see Cav off. If he manages to remain in contention and do something today, I will be suitably impressed!


GPM4 = it is not nothing but not much in the grand scheme of things.
OPQS are clearly up for it so they rate Cav's chances.


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2013)

thom said:


> GPM4 = it is not nothing but not much in the grand scheme of things.
> OPQS are clearly up for it so they rate Cav's chances.


See, I looked at this







and thought it was a bit too steep and long for Cav to get over, mainly steep. He could be 5 minutes down by the time he crests that but then again, I'm never sure how to read these stages, got yesterdays wrong as well.


----------



## VamP (22 May 2013)

I am thinking Cav is odds on for today.


----------



## beastie (22 May 2013)

I will be amazed, and I mean AMAZED if Cav is still in touch after that little"bump". The Poggio by comparison is 4 km at 3.7%.


----------



## beastie (22 May 2013)

OPQS still at the front though so maybe he is gonna suck it and see


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

Cavendish is getting some points to keep that maillot rouge alive, and although there is only 15km or so after the hill I must say his climbing has been so much better in this race than last year, so I would not rule him out for the stage as well.


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> See, I looked at this
> and thought it was a bit too steep and long for Cav to get over, mainly steep. He could be 5 minutes down by the time he crests that but then again, I'm never sure how to read these stages, got yesterdays wrong as well.


5 mins would be a lot. For sure it's not a big ring climb.... people will lose time.... 

We shall see shortly.


----------



## beastie (22 May 2013)

Di Luca, boo hiss.

DQ still talking about Cav, no chance on that.
There is still 3 Kim's to the top


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

oufff....Cavendish is toiling now, shame.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

great overhead shot there where you could see dozens of the Tifosi's bikes lying along side the road.


----------



## Zofo (22 May 2013)

Visconti sure can climb


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2013)

Zofo said:


> Visconti sure can climb


 
The commentators were just remarking how incredible his 'recovery' has been since the Galibier. Jus tmy feeling.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2013)

Cav might still get back on yet. But he's a minute behind the peloton. Still doing pretty amazingly well.


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2013)

Great effort by Cav, I hope he gets back, 4 with him.

Visconti is dodgy as hell.


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

Sporting chance for Cav - I think it will be hard for Visconti to stay away on his own - 1 min for OPQS to make up rel to the peloton is feasible. Will Visconti manage to stay away ?


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

Gotta hand it to Visconti, he's played is cards very well.


----------



## smutchin (22 May 2013)

Visconti riding like... oh, I dunno, like he's in a Ferrari or something.


----------



## smutchin (22 May 2013)

Mechanical for Betancur! Boo!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 May 2013)

Great push from Visconti to hold off the chasers.


----------



## Noodley (22 May 2013)

From cyclingnews:
"17:45:18 CEST
Small groups of rider dribble over the finish line"

Eugh


----------



## Beebo (22 May 2013)

Did the guy in second think he had won? I'm watching a non English feed so I don't understand but it looked like he thought he'd won from his sprint and celebration


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 May 2013)

Beebo said:


> Did the guy in second think he had won? I'm watching a non English feed so I don't understand but it looked like he thought he'd won from his sprint and celebration


Yep


----------



## montage (22 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> From cyclingnews:
> "17:45:18 CEST
> Small groups of rider dribble over the finish line"
> 
> Eugh


Them continentals innit


----------



## thom (22 May 2013)

montage said:


> Them incontinentals innit


ftfy


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

Can anyone see past Nibali today? With his combination of climbing and improved TT skills, this would seem made for him, but it's a bit flatter than a pure mountain TT might have been, and so the steady power climbers and flatter TT specialists might still have a chance. If Wiggins was still in the race, this stage would have looked made for him, and Hesjedal might have liked it too, but I am not sure if the same is true for Uran. Evans will certainly see this as a chance for him.


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2013)

Can't see Nibali losing time, Evans to stay where he is and Uran should be safe in 3rd.

So, let's see what really happens.


----------



## Dave Davenport (23 May 2013)

Can't see there being enough between Nibs, Evans and Uran to change the dynamic of the GC today.


----------



## thom (23 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Can anyone see past Nibali today? With his combination of climbing and improved TT skills, this would seem made for him, but it's a bit flatter than a pure mountain TT might have been, and so the steady power climbers and flatter TT specialists might still have a chance. If Wiggins was still in the race, this stage would have looked made for him, and Hesjedal might have liked it too, but I am not sure if the same is true for Uran. Evans will certainly see this as a chance for him.


I reckon Evans will be better. I thought Wiggins & Evans were the fastest guys up the last hill in the ITT.
I can't see him being significantly superior to Nibali though but it would sure make the last 2 stages more interesting if Evans got within striking distance to Nibali with time bonuses factored in. But that is asking a lot.

Were I to continue in yesterday's vein, I'd put my house on Cav...


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

Dawson FTW

just sayin like


----------



## Radchenister (23 May 2013)

Tanel Kangert is being touted as in with a chance but as you say, seeing past Nibali is difficult and I'm left wondering how the team manage this?

I'll be routing for Evans, you would think if he's motivated (which he obviously is) then it's something he's going to go for - I'd love to see the 'old guy' do well.


----------



## Radchenister (23 May 2013)

Just checked again to make sure, no time bonuses, so should just be every man for himself.


----------



## Monsieur Remings (23 May 2013)

Gesink? I know he's not quite on form but you never know...

Can't see Nibali losing anything significant though...


----------



## 400bhp (23 May 2013)

Could someone do me a favour please? I am on the giro tt route now about half way round. I want a full list of riders (in classification order) so I can tell which riders are coming up. However I can't access the giro website that shows the full classification on my phone. Could someone paste the full classification for me on here please?
Or pm me a separate message.
Cheers


----------



## thom (23 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Could someone do me a favour please? I am on the giro tt route now about half way round. I want a full list of riders (in classification order) so I can tell which riders are coming up. However I can't access the giro website that shows the full classification on my phone. Could someone paste the full classification for me on here please?
> Or pm me a separate message.
> Cheers


Full start list here in pdf - the pdf format could be the problem

Top 10 here - not full
*General Classification after Stage 17*
ITA 1 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA PRO TEAM) 73:11:29
AUS 2 EVANS, Cadel (BMC RACING) + 1:26
COL 3 URAN URAN, Rigoberto (SKY PROCYCLING) + 2:46
ITA 4 SCARPONI, Michele (LAMPRE-MERIDA) + 3:53
POL 5 NIEMIEC, Przemyslaw (LAMPRE-MERIDA) + 4:13
ITA 6 SANTAMBROGIO, Mauro (VINI FANTINI - SELLE ITALIA) + 4:57
COL 7 BETANCUR GOMEZ, Carlos Alberto (AG2R LA MONDIALE) + 5:15
POL 8 MAJKA, Rafal (SAXO-TINKOFF) + 5:20
ESP 9 INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Benat (MOVISTAR TEAM) + 5:47
NED 10 GESINK, Robert (BLANCO PRO CYCLING) + 7:24


----------



## Radchenister (23 May 2013)

Bit of a PDF to JPG conversion faff but here you go, yesterday's below, so the one above is in reverse order:


----------



## Noodley (23 May 2013)

Full starting list, and times:
1 222 BRA19871020 *ANDRIATO Rafael *BRA VIN *13.12'00"*
2 95 ESP19880830 *MINGUEZ AYALA Miguel *G ESP EUS *13.13'00"*
3 62 GBR19891001 *BLYTHE Adam *G GBR BMC *13.14'00"*
4 12 ITA19890602 *APPOLLONIO Davide *G ITA ALM *13.15'00"*
5 86 COL19850808 *MARENTES TORRES Wilson *COLCOL*13.16'00"*
6 82 COL19891121 *AVILA** VANEGAS Edwin Alci *G COL COL*13.17'00"*
7 106 FRA19860719 *PICHON Laurent *FRA FDJ *13.18'00"*
8 154 BEL19821221 *KEISSE Iljo *BEL OPQ *13.19'00"*
9 219 BEL19891110 *WAUTERS Willem *G BEL VCD *13.20'00"*
10 215 NED19880616 *LIGTHART Pim *G NED VCD *13.21'00"*
11 167 NED19800312 *MOURIS Jens *NED OGE *13.22'00"*
12 193 BEL19840402 *DE BACKER Bert *BEL ARG *13.23'00"*
13 135 BEL19841110 *DEHAES Kenny *BEL LTB *13.24'00"*
14 214 NED19900831 *LAMMERTINK Maurits *G NED VCD *13.25'00"*
15 168 CAN19770509 *TUFT Svein *CAN OGE *13.26'00"*
16 22 ITA19810407 *ERMETI Giairo *ITA AND *13.27'00"*
17 63 GBR19810319 *CUMMINGS Stephen *GBR BMC *13.28'00"*
18 96 GRE19800603 *TAMOURIDIS Ioannis *GRE EUS *13.29'00"*
19 179 NZL19880708 *SERGENT Jesse *G NZL RLT *13.30'00"*
20 124 ITA19830309 *FERRARI Roberto *ITA LAM *13.31'00"*
21 34 KAZ19860313 *GRUZDEV Dmitriy *KAZ AST *13.32'00"*
22 112 RUS19850109 *BELKOV Maxim *RUS KAT *13.33'00"*
23 143 GBR19881003 *DOWSETT Alex *G GBR MOV *13.34'00"*
24 102 BRA19790616 *FISCHER Murilo Antonio *BRA FDJ *13.35'00"*
25 133 NED19880407 *BULGAC Brian *G NED LTB *13.36'00"*
26 162 AUS19910409 *DURBRIDGE Luke *G AUS OGE *13.37'00"*
27 5 RSA19770422 *HUNTER Robert *RSA GRS *13.38'00"*
28 166 CAN19850221 *MEIER Christian *CAN OGE *13.39'00"*
29 3 NED19840906 *DEKKER Thomas *NED GRS *13.40'00"*
30 94 POR19830911 *MESTRE Ricardo *POR EUS *13.41'00"*
31 66 ITA19870113 *OSS** Daniel *ITA BMC *13.42'00"*
32 45 ITA19881226 *CANOLA Marco *G ITA BAR *13.43'00"*
33 13 ITA19851014 *BELLETTI Manuel *ITA ALM *13.44'00"*
34 49 ITA19891102 *ZARDINI Edoardo *G ITA BAR *13.45'00"*
35 177 UKR19800104 *POPOVYCH Yaroslav *UKR RLT *13.46'00"*
36 43 ITA19890927 *BOEM Nicola *G ITA BAR *13.47'00"*
37 185 USA19790324 *PATE Danny *USASKY *13.48'00"*
38 58 NED19771105 *TJALLINGII Maarten *NED BLA *13.49'00"*
39 199 NED19850613 *TIMMER Albert *NED ARG *13.50'00"*
40 159 BEL19890726 *VERMOTE Julien *G BEL OPQ *13.51'00"*
41 175 ITA19890130 *NIZZOLO Giacomo *G ITA RLT *13.52'00"*
42 151 GBR19850521 *CAVENDISH Mark *GBR OPQ *13.53'00"*
43 79 AUS19830803 *WURF Cameron *AUS CAN *13.54'00"*
44 212 SLO19850813 *BOLE Grega *SLO VCD *13.55'00"*
45 205 DEN19840406 *CHRISTENSEN Mads *DEN TST *13.56'00"*
46 156 FRA19800102 *PINEAU Jérome *FRA OPQ *13.57'00"*
47 132 NED19840119 *BELLEMAKERS Dirk *NED LTB *13.58'00"*
48 41 ITA19870619 *MODOLO Sacha *ITA BAR *13.59'00"*
49 152 ITA19870822 *BRAMBILLA Gianluca *ITA OPQ *14.00'00"*
50 198 SLO19880627 *MEZGEC Luka *G SLO ARG *14.01'00"*
51 165 AUS19791115 *LANCASTER** Brett *AUS OGE *14.02'00"*
52 171 NZL19900407 *BENNETT George *G NZL RLT *14.03'00"*
53 127 ITA19810910 *POZZATO Filippo *ITA LAM *14.04'00"*
54 78 ITA19890207 *VIVIANI Elia *G ITA CAN *14.05'00"*
55 39 KAZ19861214 *ZEITS Andrey *KAZ AST *14.06'00"*
56 72 ITA19830726 *DALL'ANTONIA Tiziano *ITA CAN *14.07'00"*
57 74 ITA19840716 *MARANGONI Alan *ITA CAN *14.08'00"*
58 139 BEL19790908 *WILLEMS Frederik *BEL LTB *14.09'00"*
59 113 RUS19820129 *BRUTT Pavel *RUS KAT *14.10'00"*
60 142 ESP19810211 *COBO ACEBO Juan Jose *ESP MOV *14.11'00"*
61 104 FRA19901003 *LE BON Johan *G FRA FDJ *14.12'00"*
62 197 SWE19910222 *LUDVIGSSON Tobias *G SWE ARG *14.13'00"*
63 158 ITA19890802 *TRENTIN Matteo *G ITA OPQ *14.14'00"*
64 221 ITA19730716 *GARZELLI Stefano *ITA VIN *14.15'00"*
65 9 USA19760522 *VANDEVELDE Christian *USAGRS *14.16'00"*
66 203 ITA19870312 *BOARO Manuele *ITA TST *14.17'00"*
67 138 ESP19810730 *REYNES MIMO Vicente *ESP LTB *14.18'00"*
68 37 ITA19770708 *TIRALONGO Paolo *ITA AST *14.19'00"*
69 136 BEL19880704 *DOCKX Gert *G BEL LTB *14.20'00"*
70 172 GER19740104 *HONDO Danilo *GER RLT *14.21'00"*
71 75 ITA19850218 *SABATINI Fabio *ITA CAN *14.22'00"*
72 213 NED19880325 *KEIZER** Martijn *G NED VCD *14.23'00"*
73 47 ITA19890226 *LOCATELLI Stefano *G ITA BAR *14.24'00"*
74 16 FRA19870623 *BONNAFOND Guillaume *FRA ALM *14.25'00"*
75 226 ITA19821228 *PRONI Alessandro *ITA VIN *14.26'00"*
76 189 ESP19770317 *ZANDIO ECHAIDE Xabier *ESP SKY *14.27'00"*
77 36 SWE19800517 *KESSIAKOFF Fredrik Carl W *SWE AST *14.28'00"*
78 209 AUS19820208 *SUTHERLAND Rory *AUS TST *14.29'00"*
79 131 DEN19800116 *BAK Lars Ytting *DEN LTB *14.30'00"*
80 46 ITA19900517 *COLBRELLI Sonny *G ITA BAR *14.31'00"*
81 77 COL19870328 *SARMIENTO TUNARROSA C *COL CAN *14.32'00"*
82 225 ITA19850101 *GATTO Oscar *ITA VIN *14.33'00"*
83 147 ESP19760120 *LASTRAS GARCIA Pablo *ESP MOV *14.34'00"*
84 83 COL19840308 *CHALAPUD GOMEZ Robinso *COLCOL*14.35'00"*
85 76 ITA19850218 *SALERNO** Cristiano *ITA CAN *14.36'00"*
86 99 SLO19801008 *VRECER Robert *SLO EUS *14.37'00"*
87 69 SUI19850826 *WYSS Danilo *SUI BMC *14.38'00"*
88 7 LTU19880130 *NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas *G LTU GRS *14.39'00"*
89 218 BEL19780904 *VEUCHELEN Frederik *BEL VCD *14.40'00"*
90 107 CAN19821029 *ROLLIN Dominique *CAN FDJ *14.41'00"*
91 126 ITA19800711 *PIETROPOLLI Daniele *ITA LAM *14.42'00"*
92 141 ITA19860613 *CAPECCHI Eros *ITA MOV *14.43'00"*
93 194 NED19820908 *DE KORT Koen *NED ARG *14.44'00"*
94 195 GER19870407 *GRETSCH Patrick *GER ARG *14.45'00"*
95 211 ITA19840211 *MARCATO Marco *ITA VCD *14.46'00"*
96 137 AUS19810511 *HANSEN Adam *AUS LTB *14.47'00"*
97 176 POR19890306 *OLIVEIRA Nelson Filipe *G POR RLT *14.48'00"*
98 85 COL19800410 *DUQUE Leonardo Fabio *COLCOL*14.49'00"*
99 155 BEL19831121 *PAUWELS Serge *BEL OPQ *14.50'00"*
100 98 ESP19781104 *VERDUGO MARCOTEGUI Gor *ESP EUS *14.51'00"*
101 186 ITA19890831 *PUCCIO Salvatore *G ITA SKY *14.52'00"*
102 44 ITA19900901 *BONGIORNO Francesco Ma *G ITA BAR *14.53'00"*
103 115 RUS19820704 *GUSEV Vladimir *RUS KAT *14.54'00"*
104 123 CRO19870726 *DURASEK Kristijan *CRO LAM *14.55'00"*
105 184 GER19810305 *KNEES Christian *GER SKY *14.56'00"*
106 57 GER19831026 *MARTENS Paul *GER BLA *14.57'00"*
107 73 ITA19801210 *LONGO BORGHINI Paolo *ITA CAN *14.58'00"*
108 164 BEL19881123 *KEUKELEIRE Jens *G BEL OGE *14.59'00"*
109 208 POR19810515 *PIRES Bruno *POR TST *15.00'00"*
110 182 ITA19850317 *CATALDO Dario *ITA SKY *15.01'00"*
111 148 ESP19820506 *VENTOSO ALBERDI Francisc *ESP MOV *15.02'00"*
112 129 ITA19850707 *STORTONI Simone *ITA LAM *15.03'00"*
113 2 USA19780313 *DANIELSON Thomas *USAGRS *15.04'00"*
114 227 ITA19870814 *RABOTTINI Matteo *ITA VIN *15.05'00"*
115 153 POL19840429 *GOLAS Michal *POL OPQ *15.06'00"*
116 111 ITA19770117 *PAOLINI Luca *ITA KAT *15.07'00"*
117 53 NED19820924 *CLEMENT Stef *NED BLA *15.08'00"*
118 8 USA19870808 *STETINA Peter *USAGRS *15.09'00"*
119 216 NED19861112 *RUIJGH Rob *NED VCD *15.10'00"*
120 29 ITA19810109 *SELLA Emanuele *ITA AND *15.11'00"*
121 18 LUX19871114 *GASTAUER Ben *LUX ALM *15.12'00"*
122 192 FRA19890318 *DAMUSEAU Thomas *G FRA ARG *15.13'00"*
123 26 VEN19850225 *RODRIGUEZ Jackson *VEN AND *15.14'00"*
124 28 COL19841003 *RUBIANO CHAVEZ Miguel A *COLAND *15.15'00"*
125 48 ITA19870311 *PIRAZZI Stefano *ITA BAR *15.16'00"*
126 33 ITA19900703 *ARU Fabio *G ITA AST *15.17'00"*
127 88 COL19881119 *PANTANO Jarlinson *G COL COL*15.18'00"*
128 146 RUS19800920 *KARPETS Vladimir *RUS MOV *15.19'00"*
129 23 ITA19900329 *FELLINE Fabio *G ITA AND *15.20'00"*
130 169 NED19810405 *WEENING Pieter *NED OGE *15.21'00"*
131 116 RUS19870927 *IGNATENKO Petr *RUS KAT *15.22'00"*
132 32 ITA19850106 *AGNOLI Valerio *ITA AST *15.23'00"*
133 114 ITA19800815 *CARUSO Giampaolo *ITA KAT *15.24'00"*
134 65 SUI19830130 *MORABITO Steve *SUI BMC *15.25'00"*
135 187 BLR19820809 *SIUTSOU Kanstantsin *BLR SKY *15.26'00"*
136 92 ESP19820616 *AZANZA SOTO Jorge *ESP EUS *15.27'00"*
137 174 POR19851018 *MACHADO Tiago *POR RLT *15.28'00"*
138 149 ITA19830113 *VISCONTI Giovanni *ITA MOV *15.29'00"*
139 68 ITA19840430 *SANTAROMITA Ivan *ITA BMC *15.30'00"*
140 17 FRA19801113 *DUPONT Hubert *FRA ALM *15.31'00"*
141 54 ESP19760424 *GARATE Juan Manuel *ESP BLA *15.32'00"*
142 84 COL19860611 *DUARTE** AREVALO Fabio An *COLCOL*15.33'00"*
143 217 ESP19870625 *VALLS FERRI Rafael *ESP VCD *15.34'00"*
144 27 ITA19890327 *ROSA** Diego *G ITA AND *15.35'00"*
145 144 ESP19851001 *HERRADA LOPEZ Jose' *ESP MOV *15.36'00"*
146 128 COL19790417 *SERPA PEREZ Jose Rodolfo *COLLAM *15.37'00"*
147 224 ITA19760102 *DI LUCA Danilo *ITA VIN *15.38'00"*
148 56 NED19870607 *KRUIJSWIJK Steven *NED BLA *15.39'00"*
149 71 ITA19871012 *CARUSO Damiano *ITA CAN *15.40'00"*
150 93 ESP19780515 *MARTINEZ** DE ESTEBAN Ego *ESP EUS *15.41'00"*
151 105 FRA19801208 *MOUREY Francis *FRA FDJ *15.42'00"*
152 134 BEL19850202 *DE GREEF Francis *BEL LTB *15.43'00"*
153 81 COL19880115 *ATAPUMA HURTADO Darwin *G COL COL*15.44'00"*
154 207 RUS19780525 *PETROV Evgeni *RUS TST *15.45'00"*
155 55 NED19910325 *KELDERMAN Wilco *G NED BLA *15.46'00"*
156 183 COL19871210 *HENAO MONTOYA Sergio Lu *COLSKY *15.47'00"*
157 118 RUS19840126 *TROFIMOV Yury *RUS KAT *15.48'00"*
158 91 ESP19780205 *SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samue *ESP EUS *15.51'00"*
159 173 CRO19860809 *KISERLOVSKI Robert *CRO RLT *15.54'00"*
160 21 ITA19780115 *PELLIZOTTI Franco *ITA AND *15.57'00"*
161 35 EST19870311 *KANGERT Tanel *EST AST *16.00'00"*
162 11 ITA19821130 *POZZOVIVO Domenico *ITA ALM *16.03'00"*
163 51 NED19860531 *GESINK Robert *NED BLA *16.06'00"*
164 145 ESP19860320 *INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA Be *ESP MOV *16.09'00"*
165 201 POL19890912 *MAJKA Rafal *G POL TST *16.12'00"*
166 15 COL19891013 *BETANCUR GOMEZ Carlos A. *G COL ALM *16.15'00"*
167 228 ITA19841007 *SANTAMBROGIO Mauro *ITA VIN *16.18'00"*
168 125 POL19800411 *NIEMIEC Przemyslaw *POL LAM *16.21'00"*
169 121 ITA19790925 *SCARPONI Michele *ITA LAM *16.24'00"*
170 188 COL19870126 *URAN URAN Rigoberto *COLSKY *16.27'00"*
171 61 AUS19770214 *EVANS Cadel *AUS BMC *16.30'00"*
172 31 ITA19841114 *NIBALI Vincenzo *ITA AST *16.33'00"*


----------



## threebikesmcginty (23 May 2013)

Well done Noodley, must've taken you ages typing all that up!


----------



## Noodley (23 May 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Well done Noodley, must've taken you ages typing all that up!


 
I was up all night. My deep knowledge of the peloton helped immensely.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

Cav does the equivalent of strolling up the hill...


----------



## oldroadman (23 May 2013)

Cracking bit of copy and paste there! Still, saves looking up the site too much, thanks. Late starters will have an interesting time, average speeds for a top ride look like they will be no more than 27-30kph. That's a hard old ascending TT.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

most picking road bikes for weight and reliability.


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> most picking road bikes for weight and reliability.


 
You might need to explain the reliability part


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

As far as I can tell TT bikes seem to be a little less reliable a few seem get swapped out and you don't want to swap your bike on the shorter TT.


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> As far as I can tell TT bikes seem to be a little less reliable a few seem get swapped out and you don't want to swap your bike on the shorter TT.


 
There's really no reason for them to be less reliable.


----------



## AndyRM (23 May 2013)

I thought that the weight thing would be more of an issue, particularly up-hill.

Surely all bikes that have been setup by a pro-mechanic are vulnerable to failure? I'm not sure that the style of bike matters.


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

It's a weight versus aero benefit calculation. The teams will have calculated this, but rider preference comes into it based on the ability to put out maximum power whilst in the aero position. Those with a very good ability to get close to their max will opt for the more aero position of the TT bike, figuring that it will offset the weight disadvantage.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

Yeah it just seems aI hear about it more, maybe it's just because it matters more in a TT than a road stage.


----------



## Pottsy (23 May 2013)

A question (or two). 

If tomorrow's stage is altered from a full mountain stage to a gently rolling trip through the valleys due to the weather conditions, would this improve Cav's points jersey potential as he could have a chance in a stage that he previously wouldn't have? 

Or would it all be officially neutralised in some way?


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

Sivtsov has not even bothered with clip ons - man after my own heart!


----------



## Beebo (23 May 2013)

nice close up shot of someone being sick!


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

Nah its more like 16-17 MPH, possibly you calculated in KM?


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

holy crap Nibz


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

Nibali on a flyer!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

I know, he's like 1.20 up on Evans halfway - it's crazy.


----------



## thom (23 May 2013)

Nibbles is biting chunks out of the rest of the field.
He's devouring a time sandwich.

Uran lost time to Scarponi at the 20km mid-point check.

All very exciting...


----------



## Radchenister (23 May 2013)

Man he's flying!


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

The rolling splits are showing Cuddles as being 1 minute 40s down on Nibbles.

That can't be right though, because he hasn't been passed by him???


----------



## AndyRM (23 May 2013)

So barring something catastrophic, safe to say that Nibali is going to win?


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

its 3 mins between starts


----------



## VamP (23 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> its 3 mins between starts


 
You are right it is for the top 15. I was using the wrong end of the start sheet for reference.


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2013)

That's a good ride from Uran


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

he might actually catch him...


----------



## thom (23 May 2013)

So Cadel's actually dropping non trivial time to Uran Uran here...
Edit : He lost 1 min 10 to Uran Uran - 10 secs or so between 2nd & 3rd now.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 May 2013)

That's a ludicrous time from Lord Niblington


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

Almost _unbelievable_...


----------



## Chromatic (23 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> That's a ludicrous time from Lord Niblington





Flying_Monkey said:


> Almost _unbelievable_...


 
You don't think......
Do you?


----------



## AndyRM (23 May 2013)

It's a shame that speculation is so often the first place that people go to. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, it's warranted.

Superb Tour from Nibbles, and I sincerely hope it was legit.


----------



## Chromatic (23 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> It's a shame that speculation is so often the first place that people go to. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, it's warranted.
> 
> Superb Tour from Nibbles, and I sincerely hope it was legit.


 
+1 to all that.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

I very much hope it's legit too because I have loved the way Nibali has ridden this year, but the look on Sanchez's face as Nibali crossed the line looked more like he didn't believe how much he'd been beaten by, not just like a man who had been beaten...


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2013)

He has improved dramatically since joining Astana and this Giro is a real contrast to the Tour last year but then again he has been improving and he is reaching that age when most GC contenders really come to maturity.

For the moment, I'll believe the best, I have no inclination to be like one of The Clinic Clowns.


----------



## AndyRM (23 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> He has improved dramatically since joining Astana and this Giro is a real contrast to the Tour last year but then again he has been improving and he is reaching that age when most GC contenders really come to maturity.
> 
> For the moment, I'll believe the best, I have no inclination to be like one of The Clinic Clowns.


 
I agree with all of that, and I too am believing the best.

I don't want to be a 'Cynic Clown', but I'm a relative new comer to pro-cycling and reading both recent and older histories makes it difficult.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

What I think is that he is a man in the form of his life, and everything has come together perfectly for him this year and particularly in this GT, rather in the same way that it did for Wiggins last year.


----------



## beastie (23 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I very much hope it's legit too because I have loved the way Nibali has ridden this year, but the look on Sanchez's face as Nibali crossed the line looked more like he didn't believe how much he'd been beaten by, not just like a man who had been beaten...


Nibali 44.29min. VAM of 1371.
He has been the strongest rider for 3 weeks, so the time gaps were to be expected. 
Poor return for Cuddles, I though he would be right up there, but to lose over a minute to Uran is a disaster. What isvthevweather forecast


----------



## andrew_s (23 May 2013)

beastie said:


> What isvthevweather forecast


The Stelvio website is showing snow all day tomorrow, max temperature -8°. The pass is currently clear


----------



## HaloJ (23 May 2013)

Has there been any indication of what the alternate route may be if the weather really does take a turn for the worst as forecast?

EDIT : Forget I asked it's just been Tweeted.

https://twitter.com/giroditalia/status/337621950614609921


----------



## Noodley (23 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> He has improved dramatically since joining Astana...


 
Should there be sinister sounding music playing? Dum dum dum....


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2013)

Well, barring illness, mechnicals or accidents, Nibali has won this - but the race for second has just got interesting. Evans looked lacking in power today, and it would take only a small well-timed attack and a few bonus seconds for Uran to overhaul him decisively and Scaponi may even be justified in thinking that he has a shot at third now.


----------



## Chris Norton (23 May 2013)

Still a hard day tomorrow. But what a ride from Nibbles. Just watched the highlights. Uran impressed with the second half, suspect he kept it on the numbers in the first half to give it more. A real champions ride from Nibali though.


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2013)

Noodley said:


> Should there be sinister sounding music playing? Dum dum dum....


Something more Russian I was thinking


----------



## lukesdad (23 May 2013)

So, the best italian wins the Giro..... there s a surprise !
and the likely contenders are ? A an ex TDF winner who needs to prove his worth to be a team leader.
A domestic who's lost his team leader.
An italian doper who s past his sell by date.
... and a few young upstarts

Nibali should win this Giro by 10 mins at least !


----------



## 400bhp (23 May 2013)

Thanks peeps for giving me the list of riders,, very helpful. Fantastic watching it today, we had a really good spot. The Italians are a knowledgeabl5 lot. Was good to cheer on the brits. Only one I didnt was scaponi, dont like him...


----------



## smutchin (23 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> He has improved dramatically since joining Astana



He's worked on his time trialling, clearly, and he now has a stronger team around him, but the level of improvement seems to be within the realms of plausibility. 

Still, of all the teams he could have joined...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)

Looking at the new profile and the preview on Inner Ring, it seems that the new finale presents some different problems* - firstly, the final couple of kms are much steeper than the average would suggest, and the whole climb is uneven with brief dips, flatter sections, steeper hairpins, a long tunnel... in short, the kind of climb that those who favour regular-paced power climbing (i.e. Evans - or Hesjedal and Wiggins if they were still involved) are going to hate, and where pure climbers and those who can cope with variety and sudden changes in gradient and pace (i.e. most of the rest of the top ten) are going to thrive. I am almost certain that this is where Evans will drop out of second and maybe even out of the top 3.

*assuming it isn't cancelled altogether - the temperatures are still going to be below zero at 1400 metres, apparently, and the weather could get worse. It's going to be another horrible wet and cold day, which will also have an infuence - and that could favour Evans, who, if nothing else does have the sheer bloody-mindedness to push on through the worst weather.


----------



## beastie (24 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's going to be another horrible wet and cold day, which will also have an infuence - and that could favour Evans, who, if nothing else does have the sheer bloody-mindedness to push on through the worst weather.



The stage he won on the Strade Bianche, whilst wearing the rainbow bands was a real hard man performance. I actually think Nibali is super good in bad weather, he seems so composed. It is still a good parcours so should make for aggressive racing.


----------



## Dave Davenport (24 May 2013)

I'd like to see Nibali go for a stage win today, and with four minutes in hand and a difficult finish it seems quite likely he will.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'd like to see Nibali go for a stage win today, and with four minutes in hand and a difficult finish it seems quite likely he will.


 
I think we will see Betancur and the two Polish riders try to take this one too. I think Uran and Scarponi will be tracking what Evans does and both will try to drop him near the top of the final climb - Uran has much more freedom to chose the last-minute attack than Scarponi, but he can't let Scarponi get too far ahead either. Nibali is in such a great position he can afford to just keep an eye on things, but, as you say, he's also on such good form that he could take it if he decides to.


----------



## Dave Davenport (24 May 2013)

Todays stage cancelled! Bugger!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Todays stage cancelled! Bugger!


 
That's solved today's biggest conundrum, I can watch no play at the cricket now


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)




----------



## thom (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Todays stage cancelled! Bugger!


So much of much of this edition has been disrupted by the weather. A certain amount of cold, rain, wind and snow is characteristic of the Giro but surely this level of trouble must be seen as bad for the Giro. I wonder if it will be moved back a week or two in the future when the next schedule is filled in.

Cav certainly ought to be in the points jersey at the end now.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 May 2013)

Oh well, I guess I'll have to watch the tour of Belgium then....

This weather's all wrong.


----------



## HaloJ (24 May 2013)

Today's stage cancelled and Di Luca tests positive for EPO. Sad day for the Giro and pro cycling.


----------



## jifdave (24 May 2013)

> Vini Fantini directeur sportif Luca Scinto confirmed the news to Cyclingnews, saying: "It's true. He's mad, he's a cretino, he needs treatment.
> "There's nothing else to say. We gave him a second chance and the sponsors put their faith in him and this is how he pays us back. It's crazy that a rider thinks they can get away with it like that."


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

HaloJ said:


> Today's stage cancelled and Di Luca tests positive for EPO. Sad day for the Giro and pro cycling.


 
Cheats getting caught is a good thing. And getting caught in real time is so much better.


----------



## HaloJ (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> Cheats getting caught is a good thing. And getting caught in real time is so much better.


True and I'm happy he was caught. I just hoped that this cheating was behind us. The git has right messed up my Fantasy Cycling.


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

HaloJ said:


> True and I'm happy he was caught. I just hoped that this cheating was behind us. The git has right messed up my Fantasy Cycling.


 
Cheating will never go away. At least it seems now they are getting caught. And I say that with all fingers and toes crossed hoping that Nibali is clean.


----------



## jowwy (24 May 2013)

di luca should now be banned for life for failing yet more drugs tests


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 May 2013)

The cycling news article says that Italian press speculation was that Di Luca was pencilled in for Astana in 2014. How do Astana deal with this?


----------



## PpPete (24 May 2013)

"Cretino" about sums it up.


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's worked on his time trialling, clearly, and he now has a stronger team around him, but the level of improvement seems to be within the realms of plausibility.
> 
> Still, of all the teams he could have joined...


 
I know but then again look at Sastre, widely considered clean, which teams he rode for and who his directeur Sportif was at one time.


----------



## Dave Davenport (24 May 2013)

Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, my gut feeling is that Nibali is clean. OK he looked very strong in yesterday's TT but it's not like he's been beating TT specialists on flat courses and blasting away from climbers in the mountains like Dirty Bertie when he was eating his special beef.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)

Well, that's no surprise at all given his past and the constantly attacking way he's been riding this Giro. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap...


----------



## jowwy (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, my gut feeling is that Nibali is clean. OK he looked very strong in yesterday's TT but it's not like he's been beating TT specialists on flat courses and blasting away from climbers in the mountains like Dirty Bertie when he was eating his special beef.


i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance

i hope i'm wrong in this case, because nibali, froome, wiggo etc makes for a good tdf to come


----------



## Dave Davenport (24 May 2013)

jowwy said:


> i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance
> 
> i hope i'm wrong in this case, because nibali, froome, wiggo etc makes for a good tdf to come


 
Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.


----------



## laurence (24 May 2013)

dang, that's this afternoon's tv watching gone then.

no surprises about Di Luca really, i felt it was a matter of time. he always seemed to be of those riders who would never accept he couldn't win without help. good riddance


----------



## montage (24 May 2013)

thom said:


> So much of much of this edition has been disrupted by the weather. A certain amount of cold, rain, wind and snow is characteristic of the Giro but surely this level of trouble must be seen as bad for the Giro. I wonder if it will be moved back a week or two in the future when the next schedule is filled in.
> 
> Cav certainly ought to be in the points jersey at the end now.


 
Cav's dreams of a white Christmas have come true


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.


 
It's actually a lot easier to improve at TTing then climbing, as the hallmarks of a good climber are low weight and natural explosiveness, neither of which is easily trained. To be good at TTing you need to work on sustaineable power and position, both of which are a lot more trainable.


----------



## jowwy (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.


who ever said wiggo was a bad climber - he climbs well, he just doesn't have the explosive power of a climber like froome, evans, nibali,

he prefers to sit and spin at a steady rate, which is why he uses a larger cassettes at the rear than most climbers


----------



## Dave Davenport (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> It's actually a lot easier to improve at TTing then climbing, as the hallmarks of a good climber are low weight and natural explosiveness, neither of which is easily trained. To be good at TTing you need to work on sustaineable power and position, both of which are a lot more trainable.


 
With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.


----------



## montage (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.


 
He's never really had to. Though I have only ever seen him attack twice, once in the 2010 Giro, he got about 10 metres, and earlier this season when he forced a huge selection


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)

jowwy said:


> i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance


 
Nibali has not suddenly become a good TTer from nowhere. He actually was known for his TT skills from the beginning of his career - he was third in both the 2002 juniors and the the 2004 U23 ITT world championships. He also had strong TT results early in his pro career (e.g. Tour of Beijing), but it wasn't something he focused on as his climbing ability was what he was generally deployed for by teams. In the last couple of years as he's become a serious contender at the highest level, he has gone back to trying to build on that basic ability, which he's always had, by working on positioning etc. It's not a complete surprise to see him doing better at TTs if you know his history.


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

montage said:


> He's never really had to. Though I have only ever seen him attack twice, once in the 2010 Giro, he got about 10 metres, and earlier this season when he forced a huge selection


 
As a pursuiter he has a phenomenal 5 minute power, so he can definitely decimate groups.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2013)

It's just been announed that Stage 20 has been severally cut - only the final climb really remains (and will also now be the Coppi trophy climb) with all the other iconic peaks cut because of the continuing snow and low temperatures.

http://www.raisport.rai.it/dl/raisp...tem-f82b3e08-062c-4772-9204-cc5a86276b49.html


----------



## ColinJ (24 May 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.


And that weight loss no doubt has a lot to do with why he suffers so much in bad weather.

I got pretty skinny (by mortal standards) about 10 years ago and really felt the cold that winter, but I was still about 5 kg heavier than Wiggins despite being 4 cm shorter.


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> I know but then again look at Sastre, widely considered clean, which teams he rode for and who his directeur Sportif was at one time.


 
Put Nibali's performance in the context of who/what he's beating. You'd imagine a fit Wiggo would have won that time trial yesterday. The 1999 model Armstrong against yesterday's field would have won by a very large margin.

Looking at the numbers from yesterday, the popular estimates seem to in the range 6.0 to 6.4W/kg, which is plausible at the lower end and pushing the limits of credibility at the upper end, but not quite suspicious enough.

The Nibali thread on the Clinic is making for highly entertaining reading at the moment.

Is Sastre really that widely considered to be clean?


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Is Sastre really that widely considered to be clean?


 
He was. I think @Noodley may have read something which cast doubt on it but as far as I know, most in the peloton thought he was clean.


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Put Nibali's performance in the context of who/what he's beating. You'd imagine a fit Wiggo would have won that time trial yesterday. The 1999 model Armstrong against yesterday's field would have won by a very large margin.
> 
> Looking at the numbers from yesterday, the popular estimates seem to in the range 6.0 to 6.4W/kg, which is plausible at the lower end and pushing the limits of credibility at the upper end, but not quite suspicious enough.
> 
> ...


 
6.4 W/kg is a world class FTP by Dr. Coggan's chart, so it shouldn't really indicate a suspicious performance in and of itself.


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2013)

Crackle said:


> as far as I know, most in the peloton thought he was clean.


 
Fair enough. I'd just kind of taken it for granted that he probably was doping, without really giving the matter much thought.


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> 6.4 W/kg is a world class FTP by Dr. Coggan's chart, so it shouldn't really indicate a suspicious performance in and of itself.


 
A lot depends on the accuracy of the figures, but for Nibali to sustain that level of power output for 44 minutes is seriously impressive. Or suspicious, depending on how you look at it.

(As far as Nibali is concerned, I instinctively veer towards the impressed camp.)


----------



## VamP (24 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> A lot depends on the accuracy of the figures, but for Nibali to sustain that level of power output for 44 minutes is seriously impressive. Or suspicious, depending on how you look at it.
> 
> (As far as Nibali is concerned, I instinctively veer towards the impressed camp.)


 
It indicates that his FTP is around around 6 w/kg. I don't think that's suspicious at all. Just world class.

I am more suspicious of Astana than his numbers TBH.


----------



## kedab (24 May 2013)

no giro today - I can't do the gardening in this poxy weather, so now what am I supposed to do, eh?! dammit. I shall finish the Victoria sponge and then take to killing things on xbox, I suppose. or I might get the hoover out...hmmmm, tough choices. I am living the dream today! living the dream!


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> It indicates that his FTP is around around 6 w/kg. I don't think that's suspicious at all. Just world class.


 
Yes, you're right. I've just realised I was misunderstanding something...


----------



## Hont (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> I am more suspicious of Astana than his numbers TBH.


+1. I'd be a lot happier if he was on a less suspect team.


----------



## montage (24 May 2013)

Look at Nibalis progress in grand tours over the years.... Perfect progress for a clean rider


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (24 May 2013)

Ironically Armstrong rips into Di Luca for taking EPO on twitter

http://au.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-rips-a-cyclist-for-doping-2013-5


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Ironically Armstrong rips into Di Luca for taking EPO on twitter
> 
> http://au.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-rips-a-cyclist-for-doping-2013-5


Armstrong is way past irony and some way past parody.


----------



## 400bhp (24 May 2013)

really depressing seeing this thread going in this way.

Non British bod doing bloody fantastic - throw mud


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2013)

Armstrong has a point - I mean, fancy getting caught. Has "Killer" never heard of microdosing?


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (24 May 2013)

I really like this thread and the @Noodley pro knowledge that it brings.................

BUT

Why the speculation of doping regarding the current leader? If his Nibs gets caught doping then it's understandably a big talking point but for now it is mere nonsense! Froome and Ritchie Porte have recently pulled off similar uphill time trials.


----------



## lukesdad (24 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I really like this thread and the @Noodley pro knowledge that it brings.................
> 
> BUT
> 
> Why the speculation of doping regarding the current leader? If his Nibs gets caught doping then it's understandably a big talking point but for now it is mere nonsense! Froome and Ritchie Porte have recently pulled off similar uphill time trials.


Nothing like a bit of heathen a*se licking


----------



## Strathlubnaig (24 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I really like this thread and the @Noodley pro knowledge that it brings.................
> 
> BUT
> 
> Why the speculation of doping regarding the current leader? If his Nibs gets caught doping then it's understandably a big talking point but for now it is mere nonsense! Froome and Ritchie Porte have recently pulled off similar uphill time trials.


 
True dat. After all, where was all the speculation and finger pointing when Uran nipped off up the road last week ? Where were the questions and suspicions when Froome and Porte destroyed the field at PN ?


----------



## Peteaud (24 May 2013)

I think the top riders are all clean, they have a lot more to lose than gain now.

(I hope)


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> True dat. After all, where was all the speculation and finger pointing when Uran nipped off up the road last week ? Where were the questions and suspicions when Froome and Porte destroyed the field at PN ?


Posting on L'équipe!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (24 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Nothing like a bit of heathen a*se licking


There may have been a slight bit of humour in the first sentence. Seemed to be a recurring theme a few pages back.


----------



## The Couch (24 May 2013)

jowwy said:


> ... nibali, froome, wiggo etc makes for a good tdf to come


Nibbles ain't riding the Tour (unless you mean next year)... but I guess if Sky will have both Wiggins and Froome then we should already have more than enough (spouse-tweets) fireworks to watch


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> .......
> 
> Why the speculation of doping regarding the current leader? If his Nibs gets caught doping then it's understandably a big talking point but for now it is mere nonsense! Froome and Ritchie Porte have recently pulled off similar uphill time trials.


 
'tis unfortunately a consequence of the history of the sport and hard to avoid. However I think we have all concurred on the benefit of the doubt but if Noodley pops up with this, he's doomed (Nibs not Noodley, Noodley's doomed anyway)


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (24 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> Nibbles ain't riding the Tour (unless you mean next year)... but I guess if Sky will have both Wiggins and Froome then we should already have more than enough (spouse-tweets) fireworks to watch


Nibali planned to ride the tour and was one of the favourites. Whats changed?


----------



## The Couch (24 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Nibali ... was known for his TT skills from the beginning of his career...
> It's not a complete surprise to see him doing better at TTs if you know his history.


FYI, so was Jurgen Van den Broeck, unfortunately for him (to be a true contender) he didn't manage to grow his earlier shown basic ability


----------



## The Couch (24 May 2013)

VamP said:


> It's actually a lot easier to improve at TTing then climbing, as the hallmarks of a good climber are low weight and natural explosiveness, neither of which is easily trained. To be good at TTing you need to work on sustaineable power and position, both of which are a lot more trainable.


Don't know if the Schleck brothers would agree


----------



## The Couch (24 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Nibali planned to ride the tour and was one of the favourites. Whats changed?


This I thought (sorry for any crappy translation)


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (24 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> This I thought (sorry for any crappy translation)


I'll believe it when i see it but for now i'll assume it's a Nibbles free tour. A let down indeed.


----------



## lukesdad (24 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Nibali planned to ride the tour and was one of the favourites. Whats changed?


 not with the spanish bookmakers


----------



## Strathlubnaig (25 May 2013)

And now Gesink has pulled out too it seems.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> And now Gesink has pulled out too it seems.


Maybe he feared getting caught by doping control at the Giro. Seems only right to speculate.............


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 May 2013)

lukesdad said:


> not with the spanish bookmakers


He was pre Giro.
Even the immaculate Cycling weekly had him as 2nd favourite only behind Froome. Still ahead of Contador, Wiggins, Rodriguez and Evans. 

Seems odd imo. He is in the form of his life but Nibs or Astana have targeted the Giro and the Vuelta. Seems to me that with all his focus on the Tour he would be in a strong position to walk away with the Maillot Jaune.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (25 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> He was pre Giro.
> Even the immaculate Cycling weekly had him as 2nd favourite only behind Froome. Still ahead of Contador, Wiggins, Rodriguez and Evans.
> 
> Seems odd imo. He is in the form of his life but Nibs or Astana have targeted the Giro and the Vuelta. Seems to me that with all his focus on the Tour he would be in a strong position to walk away with the Maillot Jaune.


Maybe Nibali will be the one doing the GT double this year, Giro / Vuelta is possible for him.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

The weather looks evil at the finish line today, and this final climb could still shake up the Top 10 a bit, Nibali's first place excepted...


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Cav has been riding very strongly and intelligently today too - mopping up the remaining sprint points behind the break to increase his advantage.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Today's real action is just about to start though and the break is already falling apart.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Betancur is way off the back of the bunch for some reason, over a minute.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Betancur in all sorts of trouble... Just got a push from one of the Colombians. Brilliant!


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Betancur back with the peloton. Great effort!

Inevitably, Pirazzi attacks. Atapuma follows...


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Astana riding like corporate bullies. They must have all had a double dose of horse tranquillisers sprinkled on their pot belge this morning.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Atapuma looks good.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Vamos Atapuma! Vamos Escarabajos!


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Betancur is way off the back of the bunch for some reason.



Bike change, apparently. I didn't see what happened but there was a noticeable increase in pace from the peloton - looked like an effort to distance him.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Atapuma being brought back now. Didn't last long. Maybe a stalking horse for Duarte.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Brutt looks shagged.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Uran looking comfortable in the peloton. It's going to be a right old ding-dong between him and Evans at the finish.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Atapuma kicks again! This looks more determined. But once again they aren't really gaining any ground.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

The last and steepest section is approaching. This has got to be where Uran and Scarponi attack Evans or there is no more road in this Giro.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Brambilla looks blown up front...


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Nibz doing a Froome. Superb.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Uran, Nibali, Scarponi dropping Evans?


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Betancur and Uran are with Nibz - they've dropped Evans and Scarponi!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Now Nibali going - he wants to win this!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

They are passing Brambilla, who is totally farked.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

I thought that red motorbike was Evans for a second! Ha ha


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Uran has second in the bag now, surely.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Uran and Betancur gradually getting further and further ahead of Evans.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

It's all about Nibali though, really.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

It's a Colombian conspiracy!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Evans coming back to Uran and Betancur. They are going to have to kick again.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

No way! Evans catching Uran!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Nibali looks so smooth and easy.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Uran digging in. And pulling away again.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

My wife is looking on bemused, wondering why I'm getting so excited.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Evans looks absolutely shot... but then again, he always does.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Three Colombians now - Duarte has almost got up to Uran and Betancur. This snow is evil.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Vamos Colombia!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Anyone who said this Giro was boring... this is epic.


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## kedab (25 May 2013)

the rather tubby chap in his astana gear chasing nibbles up the slope at 2.5k to go - he made me laugh.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Amazing ride by Nibali. He is the champion.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Uran gets some bonus seconds in third, but he's way over 10 seconds ahead of Evans anyway. Where is Evans?


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Great day for Colombian cycling.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Evans 1.30 down on Nibali, so over a minute down on Uran.


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## dragon72 (25 May 2013)

A master class from Nibali. 

Wiggins, even at his fittest, wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of beating him on this course.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Anyone who said this Giro was boring... this is epic.



The only thing that can cap this is stage win number five for Cav tomorrow.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

This is cruel, watching these guys come over the line in the driving snow. How far back is Cav going to be?


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## kedab (25 May 2013)

awesome finish - goodness it looks a touch chilly up there


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

So that's Betancur in white too? And four Colombians in the Top Ten on the stage.


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## dragon72 (25 May 2013)

Pressure's on you now, Cav!


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## beastie (25 May 2013)

Great end to the stage, and the mountains, if only yesterday had home ahead. Poor Cadel looked farked there. Cav should take the points jersey now, barring crashes etc.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

Cav is going to struggle to finish inside the time limit today.


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## smutchin (25 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Cav is going to struggle to finish inside the time limit today.



...but he made it! Hurrah!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2013)

Only 20 minutes down, and not in the last group either. For a sprinter he's looked okay in the mountains in this Giro.


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## oldroadman (25 May 2013)

20 minutes down today proves he has improved a lot in the climbs, and what a resilient rider he has become. He really needs a good recovery and suppot from the opqs train tomorrow, a win is 25 points and Nibali has 11 point lead, and is likely to roll in with the peloton in trimuph. So, red jersey for Cav tomorrow, I hope, he will wear it on the stage anyway as second placed in the competition with Nibali in pink. Uran should be solid in 2nd for a podium finish as well. Fingers crossed.


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## ColinJ (25 May 2013)

I know that some people feel the cold less than others, but surely those wearing just shorts and short-sleeved jerseys at the end of today's stage would not have been at their optimum riding temperature? (I.e. they were barking mad!)


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## jarlrmai (25 May 2013)

Well I missed this but for all the right reasons, it was a perfect day for cycling.


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## RecordAceFromNew (26 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Great day for Colombian cycling.


 
+1, and all the more impressive with Betancur snatching white from Majka despite Saxo's unsporting attack when they knew he was down on his luck (one puncture plus two mechanicals, apparently). An epic stage indeed.


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

I wouldn't necessarily call it unsporting - it's just bike racing. But yes, Betancur really showed his class to not only catch up but leave them for dead at the finish - and huge credit to Pozzovivo, nominal team leader, for sacrificing himself to help Betancur. 

Betancur probably would have outsprinted Uran and Atapuma for 2nd if he hadn't had to use up his energy in the chase. Might even have caught Nibz.

And on top of all that, he has an amazing 80s throwback haircut.


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## montage (26 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> And on top of all that, he has an amazing 80s throwback haircut.


 
Retraining as a hairdresser and moving to colombia could be a profitable career move if the pro peloton is anything to go by


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

"Sideburns are sooo 2012, darling. It's all about the mullet this year."


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

There's no way Cav is going to want to go home without the Maglia Rosso after making it over the mountains. He'll be going for the intermediate points today and for the win. All he needs is the win, but he'll be wanting to make certain.


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## RecordAceFromNew (26 May 2013)

Bl**ding tennis on Eurosport, but apparently no breakaway with 79km to go.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Bl**ding tennis on Eurosport, but apparently no breakaway with 79km to go.


 
Well, to be fair there is nothing likely to happen before they start the final laps. But I would rather have the Giro on in the background than the tennis...


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## ColinJ (26 May 2013)

While we are waiting ... apparently, Evans had gear problems for the final couple of kms yesterday which he reckons cost him his second place.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

Cav took the first intermediate sprint. He only needs a handful of points now for the red jersey.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

And now Eurosport is showing _the same tennis match on both channels_ here in Denmark.


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## RecordAceFromNew (26 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And now Eurosport is showing _the same tennis match on both channels_ here in Denmark.


 
3D tennis, if you lay an eye on each of 2 screens?


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## threebikesmcginty (26 May 2013)

It's on the app - they're just getting pizzas delivered by the team cars.


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

Cycling on Eurosport UK - just in time to see the [edit: Bardiani team] car delivering pizza to the peloton.


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Cav took the first intermediate sprint. He only needs a handful of points now for the red jersey.



By my calculations, if he wins the next intermediate sprint at 20.5km to go, the jersey is his by right.


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## deptfordmarmoset (26 May 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Bl**ding tennis on Eurosport, but apparently no breakaway with 79km to go.


While eurosport is playing billy suggers, try this: http://www.hahabar.com/20130503/vv5183b730d99a0167291773-572970.html


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## RecordAceFromNew (26 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> By my calculations, if he wins the next intermediate sprint at 20.5km to go, the jersey is his *by right*.


 
Even if he can take the next Intermediate and nobody near got any point, with 129 points in total I think mathematically he could still be pipped by Nibbles and Cuddles, albeit most unlikely of course in practice.

ps Oops not Cuddles, just Nibbles.


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

Does Cav get extra points for winning the second intermediate sprint twice?


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## RecordAceFromNew (26 May 2013)

The circuit is a recipe for crashes.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Does Cav get extra points for winning the second intermediate sprint twice?


 
He certainly didn't know quite what was going on then! One more sprint to win...


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## Supersuperleeds (26 May 2013)

He is just brilliant. Well done Cav


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## deptfordmarmoset (26 May 2013)

YES!!!!


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

Wow. That win was almost convincing enough to merit a time gap to Viviani. Only Modolo was anywhere near.


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## kedab (26 May 2013)

wow wow wow  that was incredible from Cav and OPQS - well done. What a finish, what a tour. loved it


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## thom (26 May 2013)

Chapeau Nibali - his first win of the Giro. He certainly seemed untouchable as a bike rider in the shitty conditions right the way through. Was he ever really put under pressure ?
Cav now has 43 Grand Tour wins, joint 4'th with Alfredo Binda and has the full set of grand tour points jerseys. He has an abundance of hunger and a dedicated team worthy of his talents. Matching up against Sagan in the tour is a fantastic prospect.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2013)

Let's not forget Betancur and Majka either - it was a great battle for the white jersey well won by Betancur, and great to see both the Colombians and the Poles doing well.


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## Scoosh (26 May 2013)

Just got back home - Chapeau Cav - he's quite a class act, isn't he ?

He has a wonderful knack of getting in the right place - irrespective of his own lead-out train - and leaving the rest for dead when the burners go on ! 

When ALL the top sprinters come together in the Tour  ... [ribs hands with glee}


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## Scoosh (26 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Let's not forget Betancur and Majka either - it was a great battle for the white jersey well won by Betancur, and great to see both the Colombians and the Poles doing well.


 
2 Poles in the top 10 ...


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

So Cav becomes the fifth rider to achieve the triple crown of Grand Tour points jerseys but only the second after Merckx to have also been World Champion. 

(Though Jalabert was World TT Champion, of course.)


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## Strathlubnaig (26 May 2013)

Really good effort from Cavendish, hanging in for the entire difficult tour, he did well on the hilly bits too.


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## Pedrosanchezo (26 May 2013)

Happy for Cav. It's impossible not to like him. Character by the bucket load. 

He's nearly as quick as me too.


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## thom (26 May 2013)

Here's a nice story about Adam Hansen's lone stage victory by Herbie Sykes, linked to from inrng.
The bit at the end about Tiralongo is particularly funny...


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## Strathlubnaig (26 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Happy for Cav. It's impossible not to like him. Character by the bucket load.
> 
> He's nearly as quick as me too.


He is not quite so good on the hills as you Pedro.


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## Pedrosanchezo (26 May 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> He is not quite so good on the hills as you Pedro.


I look better going up the hills anyway.


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

After the Giro, Colombia is now the top ranked nation in the UCI WorldTour. Yay!


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## Chris Norton (26 May 2013)

Brilliant giro. Nibs was supreme and I think once Wiggins had gone only Evens looked like getting anywhere near. BUT Cadel is giving away a few years to NIbs and the young hungry dogs and once the weather turned to shoot then he may not quite have had it in him. He was very good though and showed real class.

Uran was looking good too and considering he would have been there for wiggins he may have got a touch closer in the end.
Young riders was a superb scrap. and then Cav pops up manages to ride the whole bloody affair and wins the points.

Bring on Le Tour!


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## 400bhp (26 May 2013)

I might swap allegiances to Columbia - looking good for the next 10 years.


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## Pedrosanchezo (26 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> I might swap allegiances to Columbia - looking good for the next 10 years.


But what after 10 years? What then?


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## 400bhp (26 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> But what after 10 years? What then?


 

I'm sure I'll find another country

French


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> I might swap allegiances to Columbia - looking good for the next 10 years.



And arguably* the best of the current crop of Colombians wasn't even at the Giro!

*based on results so far this year...


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## smutchin (26 May 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> But what after 10 years? What then?



Ethiopia, perhaps?


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## The Couch (27 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ethiopia, perhaps?


I would venture a guess that the Chinese might rule by then (maybe because of this)


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## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ethiopia, perhaps?


 
Ethiopia, Eritrea, Rwanda, Burundi are all places where cycling is massive, and there are great wells of talent, but has so far has been under-resourced.


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## jarlrmai (27 May 2013)

Yeah really looking forward to when Africans start to break through to the world stage in cycling.


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## alecstilleyedye (27 May 2013)

just checked the betting odds on nibali winning the tour; the good price must surely mean he's not necessarily going to ride it…


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## ColinJ (27 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Ethiopia, Eritrea, Rwanda, Burundi are all places where cycling is massive, and there are great wells of talent, but has so far has been under-resourced.


Cadel Evans' adopted son was found abandoned in the street in Ethiopia. If he decides to follow in Cadel's footsteps (wheeltracks?) then I am sure that at least he will get all the support he needs!


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## smutchin (27 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Cadel Evans' adopted son was found abandoned in the street in Ethiopia. If he decides to follow in Cadel's footsteps (wheeltracks?) then I am sure that at least he will get all the support he needs!



He's already had plenty of practice at standing on podiums.


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## smutchin (27 May 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Ethiopia, Eritrea, Rwanda, Burundi are all places where cycling is massive, and there are great wells of talent, but has so far has been under-resourced.



Going right off topic now but I wonder if it would help if the Grand Tours had a kind of quota system like in the football World Cup to ensure proper international representation at the highest level of the sport - it was great to see Colombia and Venezuela represented at the Giro but would they have got in if they weren't Italian-based teams? In any case, both Colombia and Androni have been a credit to the Giro, in the way they approached the race, even if they didn't actually win much.

It would be fantastic to see MTN-Qhubeka at a GT, if only for the opportunity to see Tsabu Grmay in action - he's been talked of as potentially the first African* GT winner, but it won't happen if he doesn't ever get the chance to ride in them...

*yes, yes, I know...


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## ColinJ (27 May 2013)

smutchin said:


> He's already had plenty of practice at standing on podiums.


Yes - I didn't realise that Cadel Evans had any children so after seeing them together on the Giro podium yesterday I looked up Evans on Wikipedia and read about his lad there.


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## The Couch (27 May 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Yes - I didn't realise that Cadel Evans had any children so after seeing them together on the Giro podium yesterday I looked up Evans on Wikipedia and read about his lad there.


He actually had his adopted son on his lap in an interview during (the 1st?) resting day during last year's Tour.
(when Cadel was explaining that he had some catching up to do with Wiggins, but that he would give it his all)

Still... he will be as Westernized as can be by the time he will ever by full-grown.


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## ColinJ (27 May 2013)

The Couch said:


> He actually had his adopted son on his lap in an interview during (the 1st?) resting day during last year's Tour.
> (when Cadel was explaining that he had some catching up to do with Wiggins, but that he would give it his all)
> 
> Still... he will be as Westernized as can be by the time he will ever by full-grown.


Ah - I missed that. I wouldn't have been watching on the rest days.


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## Biscuit (27 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Yeah really looking forward to when Africans start to break through to the world stage in cycling.


 

+1. That would be interesting for sure.


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## rich p (28 May 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Yeah really looking forward to when Africans start to break through to the world stage in cycling.


That Chris Froome bloke has done okay so far!


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## Supersuperleeds (28 May 2013)

rich p said:


> That Chris Froome bloke has done okay so far!


 
He's only African if he doesn't win the Tour


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## Strathlubnaig (28 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> I might swap allegiances to Columbia - looking good for the next 10 years.


Today's word is 'bandwagon'


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Jun 2013)

Sylvain Georges sacked by AG2R today. http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Sylvain-georges-licencie/377809


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## smutchin (11 Jun 2013)

Some days I hate being right...

Vincent Lavenu today (my emphasis):


> «_Ce n'est jamais de gaîté de coeur !_ a commenté Vincent Lavenu le directeur sportif. _Mais *on a des règles internes très strictes*. Il y a eu faute caractérisée_.»


 
Me yesterday:


smutchin said:


> Proper pastoral care and structured training are very recent innovations in cycling. Garmin have been the real pioneers in this respect. Sky followed their example and took it up a level by bringing in the likes of Tim Kerrison (which they can do because they're so much better funded than Garmin). Compare and contrast with the likes of AG2R, who have a vocally anti-doping team boss but don't keep close enough track of their riders to either prevent them doping or know they're doing it (ie Steve Houanard).
> 
> I mean, I believe Vincent Lavenu has his heart in the right place, but he's too rooted in the old ways of doing things.


 
cc @Slaav


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## Buddfox (3 Oct 2013)

Just saw a tweet from BBC Sport that the chief operating officer of RCS, which runs the Giro, has been suspended after an €11m black hole in the accounts. Ooops.


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## thom (4 Oct 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Just saw a tweet from BBC Sport that the chief operating officer of RCS, which runs the Giro, has been suspended after an €11m black hole in the accounts. Ooops.


That is a lot of money for a bike race !


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