# Sciatica and post-ride stretches..



## wafter (16 May 2020)

I think I've suffered from Sciatica in my left leg on and off for years, but it's got pretty bad recently - evidently as a result of all the riding I've been doing. 

I've been trying the stretches recommended here; and thinking that I should really be doing these regularly while the symptoms persist and otherwise after every ride (once I feel capable of getting out on the bike as it's pretty crappy currently). 

I'd be most grateful for any other tips members might have for getting rid of this bloody condition; and while we're at it would anyone like to share their post-ride stretching regimes? I'm notoriously slack at this (at best the quads and hamstrings get a half-arsed tug) but especially in light of increased time on the bike can see the negative effects this is having on me (can't get within 20cm of touching my toes, for example).

Ta


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## vickster (16 May 2020)

@mudsticks might have some ideas with her yoga teacher hat on

I do these when my back is stiff. (Other than number 1 due to knee issues)
https://assets.bupa.co.uk/~/media/images/healthmanagement/pdfs/exercise_lowback_final.pdf

Add in calf, piriformis and hip flexor stretches. If you cant get close to your toes, work those hamstrings 👍

Have you seen a specialist for examination and scans to confirm the cause of the sciatica?


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## Venod (16 May 2020)

I had a bad case of Sciatica last year which resulted in a month off the bike, I don't want the pain again, so am now doing daily stretches on a morning, I have noticed that pre stretching regime I was starting to have trouble straightening up correctly on dismounting after a long ride, this now seems to have disappeared.

I do stretches similar to these, I don't do post ride stretching.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/exercises-for-sciatica/

I do some of those posted by @vickster above also,


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## wafter (16 May 2020)

Thanks guys - I'll give those a go 

@vickster - I've got no professional diagnosis but it ticks all the boxes for symptoms / causal factors and I'm not in a hurry to bother the doctor given the current situation (both for their sake and mine).

My GF loves yoga and in principal I like the idea, but just can't quite be arsed. Maybe this is the push I need


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## mudsticks (16 May 2020)

vickster said:


> @mudsticks might have some ideas with her yoga teacher hat on
> 
> I do these when my back is stiff. (Other than number 1 due to knee issues)
> https://assets.bupa.co.uk/~/media/images/healthmanagement/pdfs/exercise_lowback_final.pdf
> ...



Hamstrings ( tight ones) seem to be a major contributor to sciatic problems.

As does compression of the lumbar / sacrum area caused by too much sitting - including driving - and i guess cycling too - especially as the leg is working but never quite fully stretched.


Venod said:


> I had a bad case of Sciatica last year which resulted in a month off the bike, I don't want the pain again, so am now doing daily stretches on a morning, I have noticed that pre stretching regime I was starting to have trouble straightening up correctly on dismounting after a long ride, this now seems to have disappeared.
> 
> I do stretches similar to these, I don't do post ride stretching.
> 
> ...



Pre _and_ Post ride stretching is going to be more effective in persuading the muscles to do their repairing in a lengthened form.
Which is what you want to do if you're going to lengthen your hamstrings.

The legs working in a not quite straightened state - as in cycling - is what often causes short hamstrings - and bad knees - in the first place - sometimes combined with inflexible hips - which then places a twisting action on the poor old knee - which was only ever supposed to be a hinge - not to have a rotational action - that's why they often get damaged in skiing, and football etc.

The lying on the floor action with the leg lifted is ok - but it will be far more effective if you use a belt / or strap around the lifted foot near the heel and straighten the leg completely - elbows down by your sides - even if the leg doesn't come anywhere near vertical - many of my students have to have the leg at about 45 degree angle to the floor and then work gradually and carefully from there - over the months - activating all the front leg muscles in a pushing towards the bone action - to protect the muscles on the back of the leg - its all about balanced work on all sides of the leg, to get equal strength and flexibility - long strong muscles are much less injurous to the joints than short bulky ones .


A lot of my students come to me with 'bad' knees, and 'bad' backs - but once they've learned to straighten the knee effectively, and work the legs well then many of these problems go away.

It is really better to get a well trained teacher to show you this stuff, but obviously thats tricky right now.

I'll post some pictures when i have a mo' but I've currently got my farmer hat on right now.



wafter said:


> Thanks guys - I'll give those a go
> 
> @vickster - I've got no professional diagnosis but it ticks all the boxes for symptoms / causal factors and I'm not in a hurry to bother the doctor given the current situation (both for their sake and mine).
> 
> My GF loves yoga and in principal I like the idea, but just can't quite be arsed. Maybe this is the push I need



Considered and intelligent effort in one end - good results out the other - its a very boring truth ...


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## wafter (16 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> Hamstrings ( tight ones) seem to be a major contributor to sciatic problems.
> 
> As does compression of the lumbar / sacrum area caused by too much sitting - including driving - and i guess cycling too - especially as the leg is working but never quite fully stretched.
> 
> ...


Thanks - really appreciate you going through all that


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## Venod (16 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> As does compression of the lumbar / sacrum area caused by too much sitting - including driving - and i guess cycling too



I think this was a big contribution towards my sciatica, I had been on a particularly bumpy ride on a rigid MTB the day before I pulled my back bending over to my sock on.

I did go to a chiropractor who did some manipulation and confirmed that it was a disc problem impacting on a nerve.


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## mudsticks (16 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks - really appreciate you going through all that



No problem, I had some deliveries to do this afternoon, (sadly by car) and I was following a cyclist for some time in the lanes (I think he was a little surprised at how unbothered about passing him I was) 

But I was looking at his bod 

From his musculature it was obvious that he was a fairly keen cyclists, and it really made me consider how tightened up everything could become, if that was your main or only form of exercise. 

If youre clipped in you're ankles barely make as sharp as a 90' bend let alone anything more closed so making for short bulky calves (and vulnerable achillies) 

And I don't reckon his legs were straightening even as much as 160 at the knee, so short hamstrings, again. 

Add into that the front groins working under load, semi, or fully closed, and a rounded dorsal spine it's a wonder that any pro cyclists can walk upright at all. 

But then, I guess they have physios to straighten them out. 

Anyhow it got me thinking about a shortish but precise and effective programme, of stretching, that would be doable by cyclists, without technical knowledge would be useful. 

Anything longer than five mins and I know it just won't happen. 

But it does need to be done (imo) or things are going to get tight, vulnerable and hurty, for a lot of people .. 

Maybe there's one out there already idk?


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## wafter (16 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> No problem, I had some deliveries to do this afternoon, (sadly by car) and I was following a cyclist for some time in the lanes (I think he was a little surprised at how unbothered about passing him I was)
> 
> But I was looking at his bod
> 
> ...


Indeed - not that I have any real understanding or knowledge of the physiological issues involved, but I've been getting increasingly concerned by the potential fallout of large amounts of one specific type of exercise with the bits involved all pretty rigidly constrained. I was swimming a while ago which I hope helped, but obviously for the moment that's off the menu. 

GCN did a video years ago on "Yoga for cyclists" and I imagine using that as a search term on youtube will bring up a lot. Sadly however I'm not educated enough to to assess how helpful these are likely to be. 

I agree about the five-minute limit; even with fairly consistent discomfort it's still a struggle to bother doing any stretches, as I sit here miserable at the prospect of not being able to get out on the bike. 

I'm sure the good people of CC would appreciate a few quick stretches to ward off the maladies - I certainly would if you can find the time / will


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## mudsticks (16 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Indeed - not that I have any real understanding or knowledge of the physiological issues involved, but I've been getting increasingly concerned by the potential fallout of large amounts of one specific type of exercise with the bits involved all pretty rigidly constrained. I was swimming a while ago which I hope helped, but obviously for the moment that's off the menu.
> 
> GCN did a video years ago on "Yoga for cyclists" and I imagine using that as a search term on youtube will bring up a lot. Sadly however I'm not educated enough to to assess how helpful these are likely to be.
> 
> ...



Well a lot of it can be addressed with some fairly basic biomechanics..
At least in cycling there's not so much outward rotating actions to complicate things.

I have a suitably stiff male student, who has been up for photo modelling before for other programmes.

He loves having his photo take for some reason.. 

So I might Co opt him.

There's no point it being bendy old me, whose been at it for decades.

A lot of what does for cyclists, is also useful for other sporting activities..

And farmers too, I did some online sessions for a bunch of them a couple of weeks back.

There's a lot of folk bent into queer shapes by their occupations, or pasttimes..

And then there's the desk jockeys.. They've got another set of issues again

I'll see what I can do.

Brevity, but effectiveness, and precision, being key.

Means im not likely to be out of a job any time soon..


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## kingrollo (16 May 2020)

Google - Peter Egoscue on cycling - you will find a pre & post ride set of stretches.

I would also recommend his book "pain free" about £10 on eBay.


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## kingrollo (16 May 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks guys - I'll give those a go
> 
> @vickster - I've got no professional diagnosis but it ticks all the boxes for symptoms / causal factors and I'm not in a hurry to bother the doctor given the current situation (both for their sake and mine).
> 
> My GF loves yoga and in principal I like the idea, but just can't quite be arsed. Maybe this is the push I need


I loathe yoga it's the most boring hour of my week.........but it works.


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## mudsticks (16 May 2020)

kingrollo said:


> I loathe yoga it's the most boring hour of my week.........but it works.



You've clearly got the wrong teacher


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## kingrollo (16 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> You've clearly got the wrong teacher


Tried a few - probably because my regular is right after work....I just want to get home for tea !!!


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## mudsticks (17 May 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Tried a few - probably because my regular is right after work....I just want to get home for tea !!!


Have a small snack - fruit and or nuts is best so it doesn't interfere with your digestion - half an hour before class so you're not so distracted by hungry tummy


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## Landsurfer (17 May 2020)

I've always found that riding my bike gets rid of my sciatica ..... not causes it ... last time was 3 years ago, trapped in an amazing resort in Cuba for 2 weeks, gargling pain killers with large amounts of Irish whisky, kept it in control until we returned home and then a 50 miler on the bike restored me to pain free condition ...


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## wafter (17 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> Well a lot of it can be addressed with some fairly basic biomechanics..
> At least in cycling there's not so much outward rotating actions to complicate things.
> 
> I have a suitably stiff male student, who has been up for photo modelling before for other programmes.
> ...


That sounds grand - but please don't go out of your way on my account! 

If you do give it a crack I look forward to the photos of what you manage to achieve with your "suitably stiff male student" 



kingrollo said:


> Google - Peter Egoscue on cycling - you will find a pre & post ride set of stretches.
> 
> I would also recommend his book "pain free" about £10 on eBay.


Thanks - I'll check it out 



kingrollo said:


> I loathe yoga it's the most boring hour of my week.........but it works.


Aye; that's my major complaint as I have the attention span of a stoned goldfish, while my enthusiasm is hardly helped by being so incredibly inflexible. Guess that means I'd benefit from it though; will try and commit to some basic stuff for a week to see how I fare. 



Landsurfer said:


> I've always found that riding my bike gets rid of my sciatica ..... not causes it ... last time was 3 years ago, trapped in an amazing resort in Cuba for 2 weeks, gargling pain killers with large amounts of Irish whisky, kept it in control until we returned home and then a 50 miler on the bike restored me to pain free condition ...


Lucky you! I've had it on and off for quite a while and it always seems to rear its head after more exerting rides; which is hardly surprising given what I've read about muscle shortening etc. Thankfully in my case while unpleasant I've not reached the point of needing to treat it with painkillers; hopefully I can head off that necessity with some decent stretching!


FWIW I've been idly doing the Piriformis stretch in the Bike Radar link and have noticed the lack of mobility in my left leg (the one that's affected) - the right being able to get much closer to perpendicular across my body by comparison. Hardly surprising given the situation but interesting / reassuring to see some indication that this is the cause of the issue, while also giving me something to work on.

The sciatica definitely seems a little less severe than yesterday; present but only faintly. I'm off for a gentle ride now; will see how ruined my legs are when I return!


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## kingrollo (17 May 2020)

My mantra (and it may only apply to me !)...

You can't just cycle.

I find the routine of going to class easier that daily stretches - although I am stretching daily at the moment - as I had a major flare last autumn.


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## Rusty Nails (17 May 2020)

mudsticks said:


> You've clearly got the wrong teacher



I did Pilates classes for about five years in my early 60s because I was having a lot of back problems. It seemed to work as my back problems vanished so, as you foolishly do, I stopped doing it. Years later the back problems are starting to return, although cycling does seem to help, so I have been looking for classes near me and the only thing I can find are yoga classes. I find I need the discipline of regular classes to maintain interest.

Is there much difference in the effectiveness for back/posture issues between the two?


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## mudsticks (17 May 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I've always found that riding my bike gets rid of my sciatica ..... not causes it ... last time was 3 years ago, trapped in an amazing resort in Cuba for 2 weeks, gargling pain killers with large amounts of Irish whisky, kept it in control until we returned home and then a 50 miler on the bike restored me to pain free condition ...



It's interesting how our bodies react to changes, and the solutions we find.

Last summer after ten days of wayyyy too much farm work - and not enough yoga - (cos I was preparing to go on holibobs) I got to a campsite in the Pyrenees after eight hours on a train, and could barely move due to sciatic type pain.. It was the sitting down that did it for me I think.. 

I was almost thinking oh no, no two weeks backpacking trip for me, this is going to end up being a loafing by a pool holiday. 

Anyway, long story short, a couple of hours remedial yoga, and I was up and carrying 13 kg on the trail for the next two weeks no problem.. Well apart from the steepness of the hills, but that's another matter. 



Rusty Nails said:


> I did Pilates classes for about five years in my early 60s because I was having a lot of back problems. It seemed to work as my back problems vanished so, as you foolishly do, I stopped doing it. Years later the back problems are starting to return, although cycling does seem to help, so I have been looking for classes near me and the only thing I can find are yoga classes. I find I need the discipline of regular classes to maintain interest.
> 
> Is there much difference in the effectiveness for back/posture issues between the two?



Totally depends on the teaching style / school / method. 

I've spent five years training in, and over twenty years teaching, and being taught the Iyengar method. 

Precision, extension, alignment, rigour etc etc. 
It really works for putting everything back where it needs to be, at whatever age.. I've got students in their teens, and some in their eighties.. 

But tbh, with the rise in popularity of yoga there's some fairly vague and less rigorous schools / methodologies about nowadays. 

It's horses for courses, it depends what you're after. 

Don't get me wrong, there's, nothing wrong with a bit of gentle relaxing wafting - it's what some people _really _need. 

So find out the method of teaching, and try out a class or two.. Enquire as to the qualifications of the teacher. 

As with all these things there are big differences, once you start to look into it..


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## Fab Foodie (17 May 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I've always found that riding my bike gets rid of my sciatica ..... not causes it ... last time was 3 years ago, trapped in an amazing resort in Cuba for 2 weeks, gargling pain killers with large amounts of Irish whisky, kept it in control until we returned home and then a 50 miler on the bike restored me to pain free condition ...


Same for me! Something to do with a roadie position stretching lower back. Anyway, usually the first thing I do.


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## Fab Foodie (17 May 2020)

On the yoga thing. I’m never around for classes though for a short-time did Body-balance with Mrs FF. certainly had benefits in reduced pain and general comfort.
I bought ‘Yoga for Cyclist’ but the book didn’t do it for me.
BUT! Now have joined (as many others) the multitudes doing of Yoga with Adriene on Youtube. So far only the 20min starter sessions once in a while, but it certainly helps.
She has a nice manner, is easy in the eye and explains things simply.
Just need to do it more regularly :-)


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## wafter (17 May 2020)

kingrollo said:


> My mantra (and it may only apply to me !)...
> 
> You can't just cycle.
> 
> I find the routine of going to class easier that daily stretches - although I am stretching daily at the moment - as I had a major flare last autumn.


I think this is a very sensible approach; stands to reasons (and is supported by stuff I've read elsewhere) that hammering the same set of muscles exclusively is going to lead to some imbalance / issues with the ones that aren't getting any attention. Of course getting older doesn't help either; looks like I'm going to have to start paying more attention to stretches..



Fab Foodie said:


> Now have joined (as many others) the multitudes doing of Yoga with Adriene on Youtube.


Adriene is my Mrs' choice too - evidently she's very popular 


So, fingers' crossed things are going in the right direction; stretched this morning after getting up and have just done a gentle 40-miler with no serious problems. Had a go at stretching everything involved when I got back (quads, hamstrings, glutes and pirifirmis) and all seems well. Will look to do this regularly from now on (and maybe start doing some Yoga as in principal at least it appeals). 

Probably need to look at upper body stuff too; particularly as I think I have poor lower-back flexibility which is causing pelvic rotation and perinium issues when I'm stretched out for longer periods..


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## kingrollo (17 May 2020)

wafter said:


> I think this is a very sensible approach; stands to reasons (and is supported by stuff I've read elsewhere) that hammering the same set of muscles exclusively is going to lead to some imbalance / issues with the ones that aren't getting any attention. Of course getting older doesn't help either; looks like I'm going to have to start paying more attention to stretches..
> 
> 
> Adriene is my Mrs' choice too - evidently she's very popular
> ...


As up post - the Peter Egoscue book - gives a 10 minute routine as soon as you get out of bed.

Then 5 minutes pre and post ride stretches - done.! - it's been working for me.

I think though any set of stretches will help. I thought I was done for earlier this year when nerve ablation only provided short term releif - but it's settled down nicely now. 100 miles last few weeks...


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