# first winter of cycling.....when does ice become a problem?



## united4ever (11 Oct 2015)

Hi, rediscovered cycling in the spring and have been commuting since then. Most of my path is a lightly gravelled canal towpath so should be quite grippy. I just have a hybrid with thin tyres.

Before and after i get on the canal path though there is about 10 minutes or so on roads...just fairly quiet residential streets but if i leave at 6:30 or 7am it could be frosty/icy still. I'm worried about coming off really. Was going to go back to the tram or car once winter came but i keep thinking i'll do another week.

Anyway, whats the advice for dealing with potential ice. Do i need to change tyres or will just taking it a bit slower/easier suffice? Where will it be most slippy? Sections sheltered from the early morning sun? I have a few cobbles and a level crossing and tram tracks to contend with too do they get slippy or is smooth tarmac the worst? Any other tips?


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## Easytigers (11 Oct 2015)

Just go slower and take more care...if you feel that it's not safe to ride...DON'T! Watch out for road marking that might have frosted over...can be like an ice-rink :-)


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## Supersuperleeds (11 Oct 2015)

My mantra: If there is ice then the ice tyres are used. Yes they are much slower, but I know I ain't going to have an off because of the ice.


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## summerdays (11 Oct 2015)

Cobbles, shade etc are places where you need to watch out for ice, but the worst conditions are when there is black ice - then you just don't know where the ice is and I do need spiked tyres really to feel vaguely confident. Frost isn't too bad, apart from on line markings.


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## JoshM (11 Oct 2015)

I rode my road bike all but 2 days last winter with normal skinny tyres. I just slowed down, looked ahead more and used the brakes as sparingly and gently as I could - just like you do with a car in bad weather. 

I work shifts, so I was regularly cycling at 0530, 0630, and even 0200. 

Of course, the winter was particularly mild last year (here anyway), with the wind being the biggest hindrance to my commute by bike (I use the Forth Road Bridge)


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## united4ever (11 Oct 2015)

Hmmm. What would be good tyres for ice? Its a shizuoka hoy 1 with 700 size tyres?


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## vickster (11 Oct 2015)

You need something like this
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-winter-performance-rigid-road-tyre/

They look a bitch to get on and off so having spare wheels to swap across might be rather easier!

Extra 10% off at Merlin at the mo on wheels

Or someone was selling some disc compatible wheels in the classifieds but they're sold now


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## Profpointy (11 Oct 2015)

My view is ice is not suitable for two wheel transport, pedaled or motorised. I've tried both - on my arse on push-bike, and still remember horrendous motorcycle ride fro.Torridon to London in 6" of snow most the way to Glasgow -merely sleet and horrid rest of way to London (I was keen in those days, and maybe on a promise too). 

Maybe ok on studded tyres or whatever but hardly worth it for UK aurely


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## buggi (11 Oct 2015)

It's weird. You can get a day at -3 and its fine and a day at 2 degrees and its thick ice. What you need to keep an eye on is humidity when the temp drops plus windchill. Things to watch for, although obvious not everyone clocks them, if the pavements are wet the night before, if the gritters are out, northerly winds, iced up windscreens. Stick to main roads if you're unsure, watch for shaded areas where ice may not have thawed out even if it's sunny, leaves and manhole covers can be treacherous. If in doubt, don't ride, one day off the bike is better than six weeks bcoz of a broken collar bone


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## galaxy (11 Oct 2015)

A little less pressure may help also.


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## albion (11 Oct 2015)

You need to know the area and the forecast, ice impacting any time from October onwards.

The other winter, the offroad track near Stephensons cottage had 2 inches of ice and was totally unnavigable with 40mm tyres. Walking it was almost as bad.


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## summerdays (11 Oct 2015)

I follow some local cyclists and cycling groups on Twitter, and that's often my first clue that there is ice about in the morning.... Especially black ice.


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Oct 2015)

Come the end of this month I will fit my marathon winter tyres to my old banger, then use that bike most until the end of March. On special offer here.
If you can manage to stay on gritted roads you will be fine - mostly 
I suppose your area is warmer then Scotland, so, maybe, the expense of the studded tyres won't be necessary, here they allow me to commute with confidence in icy conditions.


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## DCLane (11 Oct 2015)

If it's icy/snow I'll switch to an old GT Timberline mountain bike from 1990. It's got 26" studded tyres on. Since the photo it's received a decent saddle and new grips plus some funky (but horrible to fit) half-length mudguards.

A £35 eBay purchase with a pair of £20 studded tyres it's worth it just for safety:


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## summerdays (11 Oct 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Come the end of this month I will fit my marathon winter tyres to my old banger, then use that bike most until the end of March. On special offer here.
> If you can manage to stay on gritted roads you will be fine - mostly
> I suppose your area is warmer then Scotland, so, maybe, the expense of the studded tyres won't be necessary, here they allow me to commute with confidence in icy conditions.


I paid more when I bought mine several years ago, and they are still going strong, I just have a spare bike sitting with them on that I can grab when I need to.


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Oct 2015)

summerdays said:


> I paid more when I bought mine several years ago, and they are still going strong, I just have a spare bike sitting with them on that I can grab when I need to.


Oh yes, me too, I paid much more 3 years ago, they are still going strong.
But I got another pair from this offer, just to hang on a hook for the future 
Last month the offer was 12.99


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## shouldbeinbed (11 Oct 2015)

All good advice above, also beware of the tram tracks & manhole covers etc in the wet as well as icy weather. Wet metal is lethally slippery.

I'd suggest fatter tyres with some tread and lower pressure, ride slower and more upright and steer clear of the canal towpath (particularly if that is the cobbles) - unless it is well tended and good condition - it can be a cold wet lesson if you lose control on there. 99% of the time it is softish slushy gunge rather than solid packed ice on roads.

Cleaning this crud and road salt off is imperative. Winter gunge and slush sticks more and the grit & salt and general road crud acts as grinding paste wearing your rims, brakes and drivetrain down readily.

I have my shed find £20 MTB set up and ready for the bad days, knobbly tyres for the most and a cheap set of wheels with Marathon Winter studded tyres for a bit of fun on my countryside park bits that will be solid ice for a week after the snow has finished and not gritted.

The other thing is keeping warm, layers are best, layered gloves & socks as well as bodywear.

If it is really cold then consider tights or a pair of lycra long trousers/individual leg warmers under regular type trousers.

Buy a Buff.

(Edit-typos)


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## Rickshaw Phil (11 Oct 2015)

I don't get to use them as much as @Pat "5mph" does but liked my snow stud tyres a lot last winter. They kept the bike rubber side down on some quite icy semi-rural commutes and allowed me to go off and play when circumstances allowed :











I've now got a pair of Marathon Winter too as they were on offer in the summer. Double the number of studs should hopefully feel even more reassuring.

(Edit to change one of the pictures.)


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## mjr (11 Oct 2015)

Listen to the local radio weather forecasts and learn where near your house ices over first and longest and check them before you set off.

I'm another person with access to an old MTB with spiky tyres for when it's needed but I can often delay going out until after the thaw.


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## slowmotion (11 Oct 2015)

If there's ice on the road, I get off and walk. You tend to have absolutely no time to react or correct for it. Watch out when riding over bridges. There is no soil beneath the road surface to insulate it, and ice forms earlier than on the surrounding roads.


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Oct 2015)

mjray said:


> I can often delay going out until after the thaw.


Wot, you stay in till April?


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## mjr (11 Oct 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Wot, you stay in till April?


Norfolk thaws most days. It ain't Scotland.


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## united4ever (11 Oct 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Come the end of this month I will fit my marathon winter tyres to my old banger, then use that bike most until the end of March. On special offer here.
> If you can manage to stay on gritted roads you will be fine - mostly
> I suppose your area is warmer then Scotland, so, maybe, the expense of the studded tyres won't be necessary, here they allow me to commute with confidence in icy conditions.



Thanks. The marathon winter tyres look good.....would maybe make the difference between cycling or not 20 or 30 days over the next few months. People say they can be a bitch to get on. How so? I would use a tyre lever and try to add it just like my normal tyres when i have a puncture. I have mudguards too and they fit quite close to my current tyres....maybe there wouldnt be the space withthe mudguards...i could try and move them too i guess. Thanks again.


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## summerdays (11 Oct 2015)

Mine go on ok normally (I'll regret saying that I'm sure!)


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Oct 2015)

united4ever said:


> Thanks. The marathon winter tyres look good.....would maybe make the difference between cycling or not 20 or 30 days over the next few months. People say they can be a bitch to get on. How so? I would use a tyre lever and try to add it just like my normal tyres when i have a puncture. I have mudguards too and they fit quite close to my current tyres....maybe there wouldnt be the space withthe mudguards...i could try and move them too i guess. Thanks again.


Punctures are rare, I never had one in 4 winters.
Clearance can be a problem.
Best thing would be to get a cheap second hand mb with clearance, keep the ice tyres permanently on that.
It is going to be a heavy bike, of course, but it will allow you to cycle on ice.
If you're using your bike for transport, they are invaluable.


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Oct 2015)

summerdays said:


> Mine go on ok normally (I'll regret saying that I'm sure!)


Nay, the winters are ok to fit.
I find the battle is more with the Marathon pluses!


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## winjim (12 Oct 2015)

united4ever said:


> Thanks. The marathon winter tyres look good.....would maybe make the difference between cycling or not 20 or 30 days over the next few months. People say they can be a bitch to get on. How so? I would use a tyre lever and try to add it just like my normal tyres when i have a puncture. I have mudguards too and they fit quite close to my current tyres....maybe there wouldnt be the space withthe mudguards...i could try and move them too i guess. Thanks again.


What size are your current tyres? If clearance is an issue you can get Schwalbe Winters in 30mm. Half the number of spikes and obviously narrower than the Schwalbe Marathon Winters, so not quite as good, but I used them last year and kept riding every day. They're fine on ice but have a little trouble clearing deep snow.


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## The_Weekend_Report_Guy (12 Oct 2015)

DCLane said:


> If it's icy/snow I'll switch to an old GT Timberline mountain bike from 1990. It's got 26" studded tyres on. Since the photo it's got a decent saddle and new grips plus some funky (but horrible to fit) half-length mudguards.
> 
> A £35 eBay purchase with a pair of £20 studded tyres it's worth it just for safety:



My thought and exactly what I did before... Cheap MTB with good tyres should be enough for the bad days... And always slow down..!


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## MichaelW2 (12 Oct 2015)

We need studded tyres so few times a year, that it doesn't seems worthwhile. I made some DIY studded tyres out of a cheap MTB tyre and some self-tapping screws. I won't last as long as the carbide studs of Marathon Winter, but it grips on black ice just as well.
If you can find a cheap knobbly tyre with large, separate knobs, you can pierce a hole in a knob with a bradawl, screw in a 3/8, flat heat self-tapping from the inside, and dremel off to a sharp, flat protruding 4-5mm. 5cm spacing works OK. You can glue some inner tube over each screw head.


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## mjr (12 Oct 2015)

MichaelW2 said:


> We need studded tyres so few times a year, that it doesn't seems worthwhile. I made some DIY studded tyres out of a cheap MTB tyre and some self-tapping screws.


With spiky tyres on sale at £10-15, making it oneself doesn't seem worthwhile unless you enjoy such projects.


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## I like Skol (12 Oct 2015)

You can put all the winter tyres/gear on the bike you like but if you don't have a clue how to handle a bike or what the ground condition is then you are still an accident waiting to happen. My philosophy is to keep the standard set-up but continually test the grip levels all through the ride so I know how much I need to back off the pace. All it takes is a little extra squeeze on the back brake to test how easily it loses grip. Do this regularly as you ride along at any point that looks suspicious then you will always know when the conditions are icy. Doing this will also help you get a feel for how the bike feels and handles in less perfect grip situations so that when you do encounter a small slippy patch it is much less likely to be a shock and hopefully you will be able to control it rather than going down like a sack of spuds!

Having said all that, it isn't an infallible plan and I did go down hard in 2013 even when it wasn't icy due to the amount of salt residue on the road and now I have said all the above I am sure to revisit the tarmac again this winter 

Only you can make the call on how important not falling off is. Personally I don't worry about it too much so keep riding, but everyone is different so perhaps putting the bike away when it gets cold is the right choice for some?


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## MichaelW2 (12 Oct 2015)

mjray said:


> With spiky tyres on sale at £10-15, making it oneself doesn't seem worthwhile unless you enjoy such projects.


They were about £40 a pop when I made them.


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## Ticktockmy (12 Oct 2015)

Its a matter of building up confidence, if you think you are going to fall off then that,s a good starter to do so, when I was working shift work which meant starting and finishing shift at early mornings at the airport, I used to stop using the cyclepaths and ride the bus routes as they were gritted all night, with snow I used to try and cycle in fresh snow rather than use the compressed snow. that was using road tyres. If I found a really bad spot, black ice etc then I would get off and walk. and for the rare bad weather then it was prudent to catch the bus.


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## palinurus (12 Oct 2015)

Depends on your commute. Ice is almost never a problem on mine- most of the roads I use get gritted and it isn't often that cold where I live. The only time ice is a problem for me is after a fall of snow (it gets compacted and may re-freeze overnight), even then this is generally only a problem on sideroads.


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## Wolf616 (12 Oct 2015)

Anyone have much experience cycling in London in winter? I'm assuming ice isn't a huge problem...


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## Dayvo (12 Oct 2015)

If you see this, then it's too late:







As others have said, lower the pressure in your tyres, and maybe take the seat down an inch or two should you need to use your feet as stabilisers.


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## HLaB (12 Oct 2015)

Never had a problem when I've commuted just stuck to main gritted roads on dodgy days and moderated my ride so I haven't had to lean. Last year I part drove/cycled and on icy days I'd drive that little bit further so my cycle was completely flat making that moderation easier.


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## gavgav (12 Oct 2015)

First ice scrape of the car window this morning . At least we don't get that problem on a bike!


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Oct 2015)

gavgav said:


> First ice scrape of the car window this morning . At least we don't get that problem on a bike!


Last winter I went to visit a friend, back to the bike after a few hours, the saddle was thick with ice.
Had to wipe it off with my gloves!


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## summerdays (13 Oct 2015)

gavgav said:


> First ice scrape of the car window this morning . At least we don't get that problem on a bike!


Yep we had some ice on the car for the first time yesterday!


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2015)

Nothing here yet, but can see it being anytime soon.

Heating not back on yet either. Don't usually wait this long, but the closer it gets to November, the more of a challenge it has become.


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## leedsmick (13 Oct 2015)

last year i commuted to work every day mainly in the dark in the early mornings when the frost was worst on my Vespa and only missed a week when the snow was at it's worst. I fitted proper winter tyres rated for snow and ice and still came off twice so id always so proceed with caution. If its really bad and you dont have to ride, dont.


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## mjr (13 Oct 2015)

leedsmick said:


> I fitted proper winter tyres rated for snow and ice and still came off twice so id always so proceed with caution.


What, the bike or the Vespa and spiked tyres, or just winter compound/mould?  How did that happen? But yes, I agree, still ride with caution.


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## Kestevan (13 Oct 2015)

If you learn to fall over with style Ice is never a problem........
Course it helps to have your own personal cameraman following you to record the incident. 












Slow down, look for the giveaway shine of sunlight hitting ice, and if you're at the front of the Peloton shout something when you start to fall over..

I at least managed the last bit, and the 40+ other audax riders behind me avoided my fate.....


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## lazybloke (13 Oct 2015)

slowmotion said:


> Watch out when riding over bridges. There is no soil beneath the road surface to insulate it, and ice forms earlier than on the surrounding roads.



+1 for the above advice. It's a real shock when your front wheel suddenly slips out sideways from underneath you. Black ice on bridges is _nasty_.


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## I like Skol (13 Oct 2015)

Kestevan said:


> If you learn to fall over with style Ice is never a problem........
> Course it helps to have your own personal cameraman following you to record the incident.
> 
> 
> ...


Do you intentionally choose stuntmen that are thinner than you?


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## biking_fox (13 Oct 2015)

united4ever said:


> Hi, rediscovered cycling in the spring and have been commuting since then. Most of my path is a lightly gravelled canal towpath so should be quite grippy. I just have a hybrid with thin tyres.
> 
> Before and after i get on the canal path though there is about 10 minutes or so on roads...just fairly quiet residential streets but if i leave at 6:30 or 7am it could be frosty/icy still. I'm worried about coming off really. Was going to go back to the tram or car once winter came but i keep thinking i'll do another week.
> 
> Anyway, whats the advice for dealing with potential ice. Do i need to change tyres or will just taking it a bit slower/easier suffice? Where will it be most slippy? Sections sheltered from the early morning sun? I have a few cobbles and a level crossing and tram tracks to contend with too do they get slippy or is smooth tarmac the worst? Any other tips?



Depends where you are. I've been commuting in manchester for several years now and never changed any set-up of my bike or had days off because of ice and snow. The biggest concessions I've had to make are wearing waterproof trousers and slowing down. It's been no worse than riding in the rain. The side streets can be a bit tricky (ie slower), but once on the main roads it's easy going. The biggest issues for me are getting into ruts in the snow. But it's very rare.


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## SavageHoutkop (13 Oct 2015)

I was about to write the same as @biking_fox - since the one cold snap that caught the council about 3 years ago now they are rather OTT with gritting. Although if you are going offroad or on minor roads you may have more issues. You can find out which streets are gritted (and if they are gritting any given night) online somewhere. In proper snow, like we get much!, being on a bus route helps as the busses churn up the snow so it's ridable. 

The only place I did come off was in the one park - I was idly pedalling along musing whether or not they gritted the park, spotted the frozen puddle and thought 'no, they don't grit the park' and promptly rode straight over the thing and came off. Doh.


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## Kestevan (13 Oct 2015)

I like Skol said:


> Do you intentionally choose stuntmen that are thinner than you?



I may have put on a few pounds since those shots, mainly because lots of surgery on my knee has reduced my ability to exercise.
Being the thin-skinned and sensitive soul that I am*, I find your comments mean and hurtful - you big bully. 







* Yeah right.....


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## summerdays (13 Oct 2015)

This was a photo I took of my tyres two years ago, if I'm riding on that I want the extra grip of the spiked tyres.


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## slowmotion (13 Oct 2015)

Wolf616 said:


> Anyone have much experience cycling in London in winter? I'm assuming ice isn't a huge problem...


The larger roads get gritted/salted in good time. Smaller roads in residential area can be quite horrendous and come as a bit of a shock if you have just turned off a grited artery. BTW, London tends to be a few degrees warmer than the surrounding countryside because of all the heat spewing out of buildings.


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## mjr (13 Oct 2015)

slowmotion said:


> Smaller roads in residential area can be quite horrendous and come as a bit of a shock if you have just turned off a grited artery.


This is true everywhere. Part of the challenge is remembering which roads will have been treated and not forgetting how icy it is and turning off onto your usual route without thinking!


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## leedsmick (13 Oct 2015)

mjray said:


> What, the bike or the Vespa and spiked tyres, or just winter compound/mould?  How did that happen? But yes, I agree, still ride with caution.


Off the Vespa. One was at a low speed turning up a side street that was quite steep. Luckily 1st thing and nobody about. Other was more related to my braking which would have been fine had I not bed. Going over black ice


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## Wolf616 (15 Oct 2015)

slowmotion said:


> The larger roads get gritted/salted in good time. Smaller roads in residential area can be quite horrendous and come as a bit of a shock if you have just turned off a grited artery. BTW, London tends to be a few degrees warmer than the surrounding countryside because of all the heat spewing out of buildings.



Cheers for that. I will devise two routes then; the nicer not horrendously busy route for when it's not freezing, and the busier but not bone-breaking (theoretically) route for when it is freezing.


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## BrumJim (15 Oct 2015)

When there is frost around, I change my route and go by road, avoiding the cycle route and canal. Is this an option?

Otherwise, white ice is OK as long as you corner as though you can't lean your bike (i.e. very slowly). It gives a lovely crunchy sound to tell you that its there, and to beware. Black ice can tip you off with even only minor changes to direction. It often can't be seen, and gives no indication through sound either.


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Oct 2015)

Wolf616 said:


> Cheers for that. I will devise two routes then; the nicer not horrendously busy route for when it's not freezing, and the busier but not bone-breaking (theoretically) route for when it is freezing.


Make sure to cycle away from the gutter, ideally ride over the track left by the cars left wheels. That area should be ice free.


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## speccy1 (15 Oct 2015)

When you fall off


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## ufkacbln (16 Oct 2015)

Best weapon is your ears

You know the sound that your tyres make, and if it becomes a hiss then you are on frost and if silent you are on ice


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## Simontm (16 Oct 2015)

As @speccy1 says; When you fall off. 
Am in London so the commute is fairly easy throughout winter. The one bit of snow was fantastic as it was fresh powder and I seemed to be the only person out on the road - by home time, the snow had gone. An inch or so to nowt. Quite odd.
Most roads are gritted and the only problem I had was there was a downpour in the evening followed by a sharp frost overnight so that when I reached the top of Beddington Park to head down to the Wandle trail, I thought I had a flat (lack of solidity), I put my foot down to find I was stopped on a sheet of black ice - pure luck I hadn't fallen over.


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## rourkey34 (17 Oct 2015)

Just make sure tyres have plenty of tread left and leave a few minutes earlier. Don't try and break any records you will be fine


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## winjim (17 Oct 2015)

speccy1 said:


> When you fall off


I think it's maybe half a second or so earlier than that.


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## speccy1 (17 Oct 2015)

winjim said:


> I think it's maybe half a second or so earlier than that.


Haha true!


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## DWiggy (17 Oct 2015)

I ride the same bike all year round, the only modification I make is to add mud guards when it rains. On day's where ice might be about try to stick to main roads as usually gritted, drop my speed down and that's it, the country roads can be a problem I also rely on my rear brake more on icy days


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## Hip Priest (17 Oct 2015)

I got some ice tyres last year. £26 the pair, which was a bit of a steal. They're great, and I'll be putting them back on when the temps drop.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Oct 2015)

DWiggy said:


> On day's where ice might be about


Here ice is always about!
Last March - mid March actually, a clear sunny morning at around 8am... take the ice bike? Nay, wot ice ... few yards down the road my back wheel went, took a tumble, ripped my lovely warm jacket, permanent road rash scar on my elbow ... sheet ice


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## HLaB (17 Oct 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Here ice is always about!
> Last March - mid March actually, a clear sunny morning at around 8am... take the ice bike? Nay, wot ice ... few yards down the road my back wheel went, took a tumble, ripped my lovely warm jacket, permanent road rash scar on my elbow ... sheet ice


Dinnae cast a cloot til May's oot!


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## gbb (1 Nov 2015)

united4ever said:


> Anyway, whats the advice for dealing with potential ice. Do i need to change tyres or will just taking it a bit slower/easier suffice? Where will it be most slippy? Sections sheltered from the early morning sun? I have a few cobbles and a level crossing and tram tracks to contend with too do they get slippy or is smooth tarmac the worst? Any other tips?


One very specific area I found is where tarmac has melted in the summer and you see those shiny patches in the road...I was riding one such road and as soon as I hit one of those patches....off in an instant. That was a bright sunny morning but there were still bits of frost visible where the sun hadnt got to it. I thought the road was ok and it was just the bits of verge...apparently not.

I used to commute seriously, all weathers. Frost rarely stopped me, just ride carefully and if unsure...I'd take the hybrid, same for snow .

I commuted for about10 years, only had two or three offs due to frost.


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