# Williams lightweight project



## RichardB (20 Oct 2020)

This thing started as a request for ideas and information in Vintage and Classic, but now that it's become a proper project I am starting a thread here.

This is the original thread: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/source-of-lightweight-frame.267277/

I bought a 531 Williams frame from a forum member, without any clear idea what I wanted to do with it, other than build it into a useable bike. I have done a fair bit of servicing, repairing and modifying bikes, but never built one from a bare frame, so I was to some extent treading new ground. Budget was a big consideration, as I am now retired and on a limited income. I'm not poor by any means, but I'm not in a position to throw money around. Thanks to @biggs682, this arrived on my doorstep:







Initial assessment: headset v. good, frame threadings all clear, fair bit of rust and a few knocks to the paint. All as expected. Chromed forks showing some pitting. I checked with Willams Cycles in Cheltenham, and they do not sell decals any more and were unable to provide any details on the frame's history. With a little reluctance, I decided to have the frame shotblasted and leave it plain, although I made sure to acquire the correct 531 decals first. I quite like chromed forks, and as these cleaned up well, I have given them a rustkiller treatment and waxed them. Hopefully they will look good for a few years yet.

Here's the frame back from West Wales Aquablasting - when you consider the sheer ballache of getting sandpaper into all the nooks and crannies of the bridges and lugs, this was £20 well spent (and an excellent, friendly service, recommended if you are in Pembrokeshire or nearby).






First job was to get a coat of primer on it before it started to rust before my eyes ...


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## RichardB (20 Oct 2020)

What to build? Well, the first consideration is that it must not duplicate the function of any current bike in the garage. (Years of experience witrh multiple motorbikes has taught me that.) The ebike is for heavy shopping and lazy spins out. The Amazon is for general duties, light shopping, and "I'm just nipping out for an hour". The Corsair is the dignified vintage matron, a lovely ride on sunny Sundays. I have a yen to have another fixed-wheel bike (I'm too old to call it a fixie). I had a Carlton Corsair in the 80s which had a flip-flop rear hub and I rode it fixed for the whole of one winter and enjoyed it. Perhaps something similar in my 60s? I did a lot of Googling but failed to find a reaonably-priced 27" wheel with a track hub, so I opted for one with a threaded hub for a traditional freewheel. I thought I might go single-speed. Wheels, tyres, tubes, bottom bracket, chain, freewheel and crankset were duly purchased.






I found a set of gumwall 27" tyres, which were unavailable when I was kitting out the Corsair, so I bought those, put them on the Corsair and put the black Nutraks I put on the Corsair on the new wheels. Also got a tin of grey primer ...


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## RichardB (20 Oct 2020)

The frame now has 3 coats of primer on it and I have decided on the final colour of the frame. Here in Wales we will be entering a new period of lockdown on Friday, so I decided to get the body colour paint now rather than wait a week when it may be impossible to shop for things like this. I have chosen Fiat Broom Yellow. It's really nice!

I am going to fit drop bars and suitable brake levers, and I am going with a single-speed transmission, at least to start with. Rear and front derailleurs and a compact chainset are possible later on if the hills round here make a singlespeed pointless.

Most things have been sourced from SJS Cycles and a few others, and always on the basis of 'as cheap as possible and still work'. I have a 44T chainset and an 18T rear freewheel, giving an overall gear of 66". Here's the frame all masked up and ready for primer:






Oops, I put the gaffer tape back after taking the photo!











Frame is now looking good in three coats of grey primer. I'm going to let this harden off, rub down as necessary, and then start with the main colour. The painting is going better than expected. Only one (small) run so far, which for me is brilliant.


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## raleighnut (20 Oct 2020)




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## biggs682 (20 Oct 2020)

@RichardB all looks good and i can't fault your idea 

Just enjoy it once finished


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## RichardB (21 Oct 2020)

Five coats of primer (all from a 500 ml Halfords rattle can, good value). I thought I had a few runs but all but one seem to have healed themselves in the drying process. Only one needed a slight bit of rubbing down before the next coat. Primer done:






Made a start on the main colour, Fiat Broom Yellow, which I rather like. This was the result after one coat:






The colour paint is a lot runnier than the primer and I got a few runs on the points of the lugs and near the stay bridges. I think I am more used to painting a flat panel, and getting the can round a 360 deg shape is more of a challenge. Never mind, it is drying after its second coat and looking better. I got five coats out of the 500 ml primer can, but my second can of yellow (300ml) is nearly empty after only two coats, so I think I need to get myself over to Halfords in the morning to get another couple of cans. It's cheap enough. I'm aiming for four coats before the lacquer.

I'm enjoying this.


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## RichardB (23 Oct 2020)

The frame now has four coats of yellow, but it's still quite thin as every time I am having to rub down a couple of runs, and this takes it almost back to where the primer is showing through. I'm finding it hard to spray the frame without getting runs, no matter how careful I am with the speed and distance of the spray. The strange thing is that what looks like horrible runs when I have just sprayed goes to almost nothing when it is dry - it's almost as if the paint layer is healing itself as it cures. It's not going to look perfect when I am done, but I think it will be acceptable. I much prefer painting flat panels!

I started spraying by hanging the frame (via a wire through the derailleur cable stop) off the garage door. I thought this would be OK, but 1) the light was poor and I was missing large amounts of frame, and 2) all my other bikes, and the trailer, and the chicken bins, and the barbecue, were getting a light dusting of yellow.






I have now brought a workstand and an old set of bullhorn handlebars into the mixture and it seems to be working much better. I can now spray in the middle of the lawn, which is much better for marital relations. Quite pleased with this idea:






It's going pretty well, all said and done. I have enough paint for two more coats, which should fill it out and make the colour deeper, and then it's time for decals.

I've got some oil-based paint pens on order as I want to line the lugs in black. Not sure whether to do this before or after the lacquer coat.


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## Spiderweb (23 Oct 2020)

What decals are you using?
Did you find some ‘Williams’ reproductions?

edit - forgot to say it looks very nice!


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## RichardB (23 Oct 2020)

Spiderweb said:


> What decals are you using?
> Did you find some ‘Williams’ reproductions?
> 
> edit - forgot to say it looks very nice!



Thank you! I think the photos flatter it a bit, to be honest. My camera takes good photos!

I have a 531C decal ready to go on the seat tube in the original location. (I also got decals for the forks, but I have decided to keep them as they are for the moment as the chroming is quite sound.) I contacted the Williams shop, and they didn't seem too bothered - no build records, no decals, no frame number, just 'send us a photo and we'll see if old Mr Williams recognises it'. I could get some decals custom made, but to be honest that would cost a lot. It's a nice light frame, well-balanced and well made, but a Williams isn't a Bob Jackson, and I am trying to keep the cost as low as possible. I'm thinking about a custom decal for the downtube, but I can't think of anything witty or wryly humorous, so I will probably give it a miss and leave it plain yellow with the lugs picked out in black.


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## RichardB (25 Oct 2020)

Another rub down of the paint nibs, and another coat of yellow, and I think it might be finished. Or, at least, as finished as it is going to be in the real world. Every coat of paint seemed to produce a nib or a run somewhere, no matter how careful I have been. But it is now 98% good, which is acceptable in my world, and I have strategies involving decals for the slight imperfections.

The frame is now resting next to a radiator to help the paint dry and harden. I have the 531C decal ready, and a couple more on order, so that will be the next stage of the build. Then some lacquer, and then the fun starts. I have decided I don't like painting frames! Mechanical stuff is much more fun.

I've been watching an American guy on YouTube who has built a singlespeed and a fixie from normal road bikes, and this has raised an issue I hadn't considered - the chainline. I've done some rough calculations and it seems my freewheel may be out from the line of the chainring by as much as 10mm when it's all finally together, so I need to think about that. The YouTube guy's solution is to redish the wheel, but I am not sure my kit and skills are up to that. I may try spacers on the threaded hub, or even a shorter bottom bracket if there is clearance with the chainstays. We shall see!

This is the frame after its final paint coat and a shower of Welsh rain (fortunately, about 30 minutes after I finished spraying, so no harm done).


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## midlife (25 Oct 2020)

Seat stays look a bit Mike Kowal I wonder if he built it for the shop?

Loving the yellow


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## RichardB (26 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Seat stays look a bit Mike Kowal I wonder if he built it for the shop?
> 
> Loving the yellow
> 
> View attachment 554488



That's remarkably similar. Always interested to hear more ...


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## midlife (26 Oct 2020)

I'm sure I've got a Williams badged frame in the garage, Raleigh underneath I think. There a Williams on ebay that looks like yours.


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## RichardB (26 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> There a Williams on ebay that looks like yours.



This one? The seat stays look familiar ...

In other news, I have declared the painting stage finito Benito, and have moved on to decals. More to come this week, Covid and the Welsh lockdown, sorry, 'firebreak', permitting.


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## midlife (26 Oct 2020)

Yep, that's the one on ebay


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## biggs682 (26 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Yep, that's the one on ebay



I rather like that yellow and white combo


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## RichardB (27 Oct 2020)

I like this


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## Gunk (27 Oct 2020)

I am following this with interest, I have a similar vintage bike that I'm thinking of going in a very similar direction with. Although I am going from yellow to metallic ice blue!


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## RichardB (27 Oct 2020)

We will have to meet and discuss chainlines. The more I read Sheldon and watch YouTube, the less confident I get.

I'm going to do a temporary build and measure things properly*, but I think a decision will have to be made between using spacers, a different hub or bottom bracket, or simply giving in and going 1x7 rather than 1x1.

* I have measured up with all the components separately and got a chainline out by 9-10 mm, but there are so many potential inaccuracies there that I am going to wait until I can put it all together.

We shall see! If you're anything like me, you will enjoy it


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## dave r (27 Oct 2020)

RichardB said:


> We will have to meet and discuss chainlines. The more I read Sheldon and watch YouTube, the less confident I get.
> 
> I'm going to do a temporary build and measure things properly*, but I think a decision will have to be made between using spacers, a different hub or bottom bracket, or simply giving in and going 1x7 rather than 1x1.
> 
> ...



In the past I've corrected a small chainline error on a fixed just by moving the chainring from the outside to the inside of the spider. Nice yellow by the way.


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## RichardB (27 Oct 2020)

dave r said:


> In the past I've corrected a small chainline error on a fixed just by moving the chainring from the outside to the inside of the spider. Nice yellow by the way.



As it's a build on a bare frame, I have no existing kit to 're-use', so I have bought a single 44T chainset - which will not be adjustable. But it does seem to be set fairly close to the frame, so maybe any misalignment of the chainline won't be too drastic. And I am using 3/32nd chain, so that will hopefully tolerate misalignment a bit better than 1/8th.

Thanks - I love the colour!


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Oct 2020)

Interesting project thus far - love the snazzy colour.


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## ChrisEyles (1 Nov 2020)

Lovely work on the paint job. Looking forward to following this one!


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## RichardB (2 Nov 2020)

Thanks! I've just finished a week of nights, with lousy weather during the days, so nothing done since last post. But I have a few days free now, and will be dodging the showers and trying to get a couple of lacquer coats on.

I have learned a lot about chainlines in the last few days. I hadn't considered it at all (I don't remember having any problems when I converted my 10-speed to fixed in the 80s) but it's turned out to be a big issue. Bsically, I have bought a rear wheel suitable for a gear cluster, and I need to find a way round a chainline which is going to be about 10mm out. Various solutions have been suggested over on the fixed/singlespeed board, and I think I have the answer in an adapter that I have ordered on eBay. The bike may end up with gears (either a 1x7 setup or even a compact 14-speed) but I'm aiming for simple, light and robust to start with. I'm looking forward to riding fixed again after 40 years, though not sure if the hills round here and my 60+ knees and lungs are a good combination. My MTB has a low gear of 26" and I use it


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## RichardB (2 Nov 2020)

The paint has been allowed to harden for a week now, and is fully cured. Today I have given it a light sanding (with 1200 grit silicon carbide paper used sopping wet) to key the surface ready for the lacquer coat. To be honest, I am delighted with how it is looking. It's now a lovely even matte finish, and the light sanding has removed almost all the small blemishes that were there after the paint stage. There are still two marks I'm not happy with, but they are not very visible and only I know where they are, so I am leaving well alone.

Now waiting for a dry and calm day so I can make a start with the lacquer.


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## RichardB (2 Nov 2020)

I don't think I can create a poll in an existing thread, but I'm looking for opinions.

See the frame image above this post. I want to line the lugs to give the frame paint a bit of pop.

Lug lining colour - black, white, red or blue?

Saddle and bars will be black, so nothing to co-ordinate with. Just what colour would look best with Fiat Broom Yellow?


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## Tenacious Sloth (3 Nov 2020)

RichardB said:


> I don't think I can create a poll in an existing thread, but I'm looking for opinions.
> 
> See the frame image above this post. I want to line the lugs to give the frame paint a bit of pop.
> 
> ...



Green.


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## RichardB (3 Nov 2020)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Green.



Thank you!


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## Toshiba Boy (3 Nov 2020)

Blue for me RichardB.


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## RichardB (3 Nov 2020)

Well, I have had a go with black (my preferred choice unless I am persuaded otherwise) and I'm not happy. In the spirit of honesty and lack of ego, here's a pic of my first effort at lug lining. It's f*cking awful and I am going to paint over it. I used an oil-based Sharpie (general internet opinion: the easiest, most foolproof way) and I hate it. I may get some enamel paint and a fine brush and have another go, but at the moment I am thinking 'leave well alone'. Black on yellow is so stark that it has to be perfect or nothing. Maybe blue or green might have been better!

More tomorrow when the drink has worn off and the paint and lacquer have dried.


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## carpenter (4 Nov 2020)

You may be able to reduce/get rid of the sharpie with solvent without affecting the paint - IPA?

I think that you are right about the black - doesn't really work for me, too much of a contrast/stark, you would need to be incredibly precise to get away with it. How about white (one of your original suggestions)?
Also I think that lug lining is slightly easier to do if you try to lay down the colour on just the "ledge" on the lug, none on the frame tube if that makes sense - not that I have had any great success with lining, I had a go and gave up in disgust with myself


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## RichardB (4 Nov 2020)

White spirit on a rag wasn't touching the Sharpie paint, even when it was wet. I literally had the Sharpie in one hand and a spirit-soaked rag in the other (usually successful when brush painting) and even rubbing immediately didn't do anything. I'm trying to ease it off now it's dry with a fibreglass abrasive pen, and even that is slow. That paint is tough stuff! 

You right about lining only the edges of the lugs. I looked at a lot of images and that looks the best by a long way. However, the 'nib' on the Sharpie is medium point and just not fine enough. Also, it runs out of liquid quite quickly and you have to press the tip in and out to get more to flow. That's the reason for all those raggy edges.

I have never done this before, and I am no artist, but I have decided that a) a Sharpie is not the easiest way to line lugs, and b) when I get rid of the black, I am leaving the frame plain yellow. Shame it's all gone a bit Pete Tong, because before I ruined it it was starting to look really good. The first lacquer coat over the decals has gone on really well.

"Gave up in disgust." Yep.


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## RichardB (4 Nov 2020)

DO NOT USE SHARPIE PAINT PENS TO PAINT BICYCLE FRAMES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

This has been a public service announcement.

Tried abrading off with a fibreglass abrasive pen. No effect.
Tried various solvents. No effect.
Tried rubbing down with fine sandpaper. No effect.
In a hidden spot, tried scraping off with a 3mm screwdriver blade. Got down to bare metal, still black. The Sharpie ink/paint had soaked through the 5-6 coats of yellow and contaminated it all. Worse, it had started to bleed into the surrounding paint, leaving a blurred edge.
Decided to re-coat in yellow over the top, see if I could hide it. Brushed on some yellow. Brush turned black as the black ink bled into the wet paint. Black then ran over previously untouched bits of the frame.

I could weep. It was going so well, and I was really pleased with how it was looking. There is obviously a serious reaction going on between the paint layers.

It looked absolutely shockingly bad, so I bit the bullet and scraped every last molecule of it from the lug edges (and elsewhere where the damn stuff had bled out). I now have my bottom bracket lug surrounded by a ring of bare metal.

I'm going to leave it for 24-48 hours to fully harden, sand it back properly, and then start again with primer, just in the BB area, and hope that it will blend in without looking too bad. Or I am going to bite the bullet and take it back to be shotblasted again and start from scratch.

Thank you for listening.


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## Colin Grigson (5 Nov 2020)

RichardB said:


> DO NOT USE SHARPIE PAINT PENS TO PAINT BICYCLE FRAMES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
> 
> This has been a public service announcement.
> 
> ...


So frustrating when something like this happens 
You’re doing the right thing stripping it off and starting again .... you’ll be good at painting frames by the time you’re finished 
Can’t wait to see this project underway once again - it’s caught my interest


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## carpenter (5 Nov 2020)

bloody hell, I feel really bad for you - it was looking so good


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## Gravity Aided (5 Nov 2020)

Paint is cheap, but a bicycle like this is forever. Best to get it to the point you like and admire it, and your effort. It has been a great adventure so far.


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## Gravity Aided (5 Nov 2020)

And thank you for the warning about Sharpie paint.


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## RichardB (5 Nov 2020)

Thank you chaps! I was really 50/50 about whether to start again, but you have convinced me. Ringing the shotblaster in 3 - 2 - 1 ...


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## RichardB (5 Nov 2020)

Well, the shotblasting guy had his phone turned off, so I set to with the 240 grit (and then a Black and Decker detail sander, which I had forgotten I had). All the black removed, all blemishes sanded flat. There's a fair bit of bare metal now, and I need to prime at least part of the frame, so I have decided to start from scratch. All the decals are off, and I have got another tin of primer and some more masking tape. Tomorrow (weather permitting) I will lightly sand the whole frame with 1200 to give a key and then start back with a couple of coats of primer. After that, anyone's guess. I am considering using a different colour this time - something that doesn't show the mistakes quite so obviously.


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## RichardB (6 Nov 2020)

Two good coats of primer and it's looking good again. I have decided to go for a colour change, and have bought a couple of cans of Ford Blazer Blue - quite dark, not quite midnight blue but close. It's a colour I love, and it should be a little more forgiving to a rank amateur such as myself. Pics below, including What To Do With A Pair Of Unwanted Bullhorn Handlebars. Currently black & rust, with touches of grey, yellow and (soon) blue. Ironic if, after I have finished the frame, I sand them back to bright steel, lacquer them and fit them to the bike


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## RichardB (14 Nov 2020)

Just an update, as I have been called in for some work and the weather has been awful here.

Not so great progress to report. I got a couple of coats of the blue paint on and it was looking good, but when I examined it the next day there were white patches and a sort of bloom over some of the paint. It was quite cold and damp when I was painting (in the open air), but I thought it was warm and dry enough. Obviously not. I flatted the paint back and got rid of most of it, and then after a day or two gave it another couple of coats. It was a dry and cool day when I did this, but there is still a bit of colour variation if you look closely. It's too subtle to photograph well, but you can see it if you look closely in good light.

However, I am calling quits on the paint stage. I have spent almost as much on rattle cans as I did on the frame itself, so what is there will have to do. It's not like I am doing it for a customer, or to sell on, or anything like that. I've replaced the 531C decal - the only one I will be using - and next dry day when I am not working I will start the lacquer coats again. I was really pleased with how the lacquer made it look last time, so I'm hopeful that a good couple of coats of lacquer will make the blemishes disappear. (Wiping the frame with a panel wipe made the colour look deep and even, so maybe the lacquer coat will do the same.)

More when I get round to it;.


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## RoadRider400 (14 Nov 2020)

I think you need a bigger garden shed.


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## RichardB (14 Nov 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> I think you need a bigger garden shed.



You are so right.


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## RichardB (25 Nov 2020)

Bit of a pause due to work demands and weather, but I have been back on it and have made some progress. The paint and lacquer coats are now done and, although not perfect, I am calling them finished. It's meant to be a budget build, after all. I think the 531C decal looks well with the Ford Blazer Blue - and thank heavens I messed up the yellow and had a change of heart. I'm very happy with the colour, and about 90% happy with the finish.






I have now fitted the headset and bottom bracket. Someone [edit: @Blue Hills ] was asking about the headset puller I got from eBay. Well, it's OK I suppose. It comes supplied with steel washers and larger nylon washers - I assume to protect the paint finish. The problem with the nylon washers is that they allow the central bolt to slide sideways as soon as you apply pressure, which means the race starts to go in at an angle. 2-3 times I had to take the puller out and use a light hammer to tap the race straight again. I ended up ditching them. The top race I ended up using just the hammer. It only takes a few smart taps with a medium-weight hammer, so no real danger of mashing the frame unless you are very cack-handed, and it's both easier and quicker than using the puller. Also, the metal washers on the puller started to dish when I turned the nut - no problem, but it made me aware that the whole thing is not very robust. In future, I think I'll just risk the hammer and take care.






So, with the BB and forks fitted, it's starting to look like a bicycle! (Wheels and crankset test-fitted for display purposes.)






One slight issue - chainline needs work. I bought an adapter from an eBay seller (thanks to @Pennine-Paul who mentioned it) and with a freewheel fitted the chainline is out by about 5mm:






If I take the adapter off, the freewheel is out in the opposite direction by about 5mm. I reckon a fixed sprocket, being thinner, will be about OK with the adapter in place, but the freewheel is a bit of a problem. Longer BB spindle? Cut a few mm off the inside edge of the adapter?

Anyway, little problems like this are the reason I am doing this in the first place, and it's proving to be a lot of fun.

Incidentally, I hadn't realised what close clearances the frame had. With a 27x1 1/4 tyre on the rear rim, it needs a firm knock to get the tyre past the chainstay bridge. OK on the driveway in a workstand, perhaps not so easy by the side of the road in pouring rain.

Next, wheels and chain/chainline to sort. Then stem and handlebars, fit the brakes and we are almost there. I test fitted the rather narrow bars I found, and I think they look OK.


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## Spiderweb (25 Nov 2020)

Great choice of colour, even better than the yellow👍


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## Tenacious Sloth (25 Nov 2020)

That blue colour is much, much, much nicer than the yellow.


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## RichardB (25 Nov 2020)

Spiderweb said:


> Great choice of colour, even better than the yellow👍



Thanks, and I agree!


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## RichardB (25 Nov 2020)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> That blue colour is much, much, much nicer than the yellow.



Thank you! To be honest, I love that bright yellow, but it needed to be a perfect finish to carry it off. Dark blue is more conservative and perhaps a bit dull, but classy and hides the mistakes so much better!


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## midlife (25 Nov 2020)

Quite liked the yellow as its "old fashioned" like me lol. Tight squeeze getting 27" wheels into a 700c frame?


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## RichardB (25 Nov 2020)

midlife said:


> Quite liked the yellow as its "old fashioned" like me lol. Tight squeeze getting 27" wheels into a 700c frame?



Hmmm. I had assumed from the age that it wouild be a 27" frame, but you could be right. As long as they fit ...

I might take a shaving off the lower end of the dropouts - 2 mm should do it. That would allow easy installation and removal of the wheel without any detriment.


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## biggs682 (26 Nov 2020)

I think it's meant for 700's as from memory the caliper mounts are for recessed Allen key type or am I mixing frames up ?


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## RichardB (26 Nov 2020)

biggs682 said:


> I think it's meant for 700's as from memory the caliper mounts are for recessed Allen key type or am I mixing frames up ?



There's a small recess for the brake fitting. I haven't test-fitted the brakes yet. Every day's a schoolday!


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## raleighnut (26 Nov 2020)

biggs682 said:


> I think it's meant for 700's as from memory the caliper mounts are for recessed Allen key type or am I mixing frames up ?


It's the forks with sloping shoulders say 700c to me.


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## RichardB (26 Nov 2020)

Yep, pretty sure you guys are right. The brake fittings are recessed and the 27" wheels are a tight fit, so after biggs682's comment I will take that it is a 700c frame. I feel a bit stupid, to be honest - I just assumed it would be a 27" frame and bought wheels accordingly. I think the age and the horizontal top tube made me assume it was an 'oldie'. It's not the end of the world, though. The wheels fit the forks, and I wasn't planning on fitting mudguards, so the lack of clearance isn't an issue. I have shortened the rear dropouts by about 2mm, and the rear wheel now slips in and out like it was made to go there. I've checked the brakes in position and the reach is fine. The wheels are obviously slightly larger than the frame was designed for, but if they aren't causing any problems, I see no reason why they can't stay - *unless anyone knows differently*.

After thinking hard about chainlines and the like, I have decided to act my age and admit that a singlespeed/fixed gear bike is not suitable transport for someone in their 60s in a hilly part of the country. I have decided to go for a 1x5 setup. I have a good 14-24 block and with the 44T chainring that will give me a gear range of 50-85". I'll struggle on some of the hills round here, but that is sort of the point - no pain, no gain, etc. That's the simplest solution and involves the least extra expense. Options to go up to 2x7 fairly easily if the 1x5 proves more than my knees and lungs can manage.

700c frame, who'd have thought it?


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## ColinJ (26 Nov 2020)

RichardB said:


> After thinking hard about chainlines and the like, I have decided to act my age and admit that a singlespeed/fixed gear bike is not suitable transport for someone in their 60s in a hilly part of the country.


It seems a shame with those nice horizontal dropouts... 

When I built my singlespeed bike I didn't think that I would tackle _any _hills on it but I ended up liking it too much to just use it for flat shopping trips. It turns out that I am okay on short steepish ramps (8-10%), or longer stretches of 5-6%, but I wouldn't ride it anywhere that gradients significantly exceeded 10% for any great distance. Don't you have any flatter roads in your area?

I do a lot of thread-hopping so I can't remember whether this is going to be your _only _bike. If so, then yes, extra gears make sense! If you have another geared bike, why not keep this one with just one gear for flatter rides?


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## RichardB (26 Nov 2020)

ColinJ said:


> It seems a shame with those nice horizontal dropouts...
> 
> When I built my singlespeed bike I didn't think that I would tackle _any _hills on it but I ended up liking it too much to just use it for flat shopping trips. It turns out that I am okay on short steepish ramps (8-10%), or longer stretches of 5-6%, but I wouldn't ride it anywhere that gradients significantly exceeded 10% for any great distance. Don't you have any flatter roads in your area?
> 
> I do a lot of thread-hopping so I can't remember whether this is going to be your _only _bike. If so, then yes, extra gears make sense! If you have another geared bike, why not keep this one with just one gear for flatter rides?



@ColinJ he talk big sense.

I have other bikes (an electric workhorse, a 1970s Carlton and a 1990s MTB, with 9, 10 and 27 [edit: idiot, 21] gears respectively. There are flat roads around, for sure, but far enough away that I would need to take the bike in the car to wherever, and that doesn't really appeal. Part of the idea of a singlespeed/fixie (I ran a fixie for a season when I was in my late 20s, so I know what it's all about) was the fitness thing, and the lightness and simplicity and all that. Climb the hill or walk it, no in-between. But I could see myself spending more and more cash and a lot of time on different hubs, shorter bottom brackets, and so on - only to find that 5 minutes into the first ride I realised I had made a big mistake. To do it properly, it's going to mean a track hub and 700c wheels, and then cold-setting the frame to 120mm. I'd be happy to do that, if I was sure I would ride fixed a lot - but I am not sure. (I can't find a wheel with a flip-flop hub and 130mm OLD that isn't black, and I am determined that this build will be polished alloy or nothing 

There is a firm in Hackney, London, who will sell me a decent-looking fixie/singlespeed for under £200. It might be heavy and crude, but if I really can't stifle the fixie urge I will buy one of those and give it a try - if it's a 15-minute wonder I can always sell it on. For now, a geared bike, although more complicated than I wanted, is the sensible way forward. But I am keeping it simple - one at the front and five at the back, one lever and that's it. Same configuration as the Viking Conquest I had when I was a teenager 

Thank you for your thoughts - you make a lot of sense.


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## biggs682 (26 Nov 2020)

I was intending to build it with a free hub and 27" wheels running a 2 x claris 8 speed set up purely for the fun of it .

27" will work fine and a 1 x ? set up should be fine so no panic just enjoy


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## rockyroller (29 Nov 2020)

RichardB said:


> Bit of a pause due to work demands and weather, but I have been back on it and have made some progress.


wow, gorgeous work! I think I didn't understand the original task at hand


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## Colin Grigson (30 Nov 2020)

Any progress pics Richard ? ... I hope you didn’t spend Sunday with your feet up


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## RichardB (30 Nov 2020)

Colin Grigson said:


> Any progress pics Richard ? ... I hope you didn’t spend Sunday with your feet up



Some progress last week, but then I have been called in for a few days' work. This is fine, as I am waiting on a derailleur and shifters (having decided on gears rather than singlespeed) and of course it helps to be able to pay for the bits you buy.

Currently, bike has wheels, pedals/crankset, brakes, stem and handlebars and is looking bicycle-shaped. Transmission, levers, cables, saddle yet to do. Then it's a bit of bar tape and we're good to go. Will update end of the week. Thanks for asking!


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## 12boy (1 Dec 2020)

I have a Surly Steamroller which I go back and forth between a single speed and a SA S-Rf3 hub which, using an 18 tooth sprocket and a 42 tooth chainring yields 48, 64 and 85 gear inches. I have a bar end shifter and a bit of cabling and a joiner permanently under the bar tape so I can switch back and forth in about 15 minutes. I can use the 3 speed setup with studded snows in the winter as I like the lower gears for wind and hills which are harder with thge heavy studded tires. I have had the Surly for 12 years and don't mind riding it in the gritty salty slop we have in the winter, but a gorgeous paint job such as yours deserves better treatment. In the pic you can see the bar shifter on the right side of the handlebars.


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## RichardB (1 Dec 2020)

12boy said:


> I have a Surly Steamroller which I go back and forth between a single speed and a SA S-Rf3 hub which, using an 18 tooth sprocket and a 42 tooth chainring yields 48, 64 and 85 gear inches. I have a bar end shifter and a bit of cabling and a joiner permanently under the bar tape so I can switch back and forth in about 15 minutes. I can use the 3 speed setup with studded snows in the winter as I like the lower gears for wind and hills which are harder with thge heavy studded tires. I have had the Surly for 12 years and don't mind riding it in the gritty salty slop we have in the winter, but a gorgeous paint job such as yours deserves better treatment. In the pic you can see the bar shifter on the right side of the handlebars.
> View attachment 561142



That's a nice-looking bike. I was thinking about getting a SA hub ...


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## 12boy (1 Dec 2020)

Thanks, Richard B. It and my Brompton are my favorites. That paint color was called "maroon", but in the fixie community it was often called "bloody stool". I went to the aerospace section of the Smithsonian and saw a Wright Bros. Bicycle, which from a distance could have been the Steamroller as you see it. From the little I've read there were some bitchin lightweight 3 speed bikes in the UK back in the day.


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## RichardB (6 Dec 2020)

12boy said:


> From the little I've read there were some bitchin lightweight 3 speed bikes in the UK back in the day.



Oh yes. I spent a lot of my youth on my mother's old post-war Raleigh, with 3 speeds and roller-lever brakes. It took a ton of punishment and always came back for more. Bicycle soccer ("Boccer") in the street was its main use - I had a (gasp) 5-speed for other uses. My friend had a Raleigh Palm Beach 3-speed, and it was a decent bike. 3-speeds seemed almost indestructible back then, and they bloody well needed to be.


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## RichardB (6 Dec 2020)

Quick update. Got a bit further forward this week, dodging the rain and the cold. Bars, brake levers and brakes fitted and cabled up. First time I have had side-pull brakes in decades, and they were remarkably easy to set up. Bottom bracket, chainset and pedals fitted. Have decided on a plain 5-speed for the time being, trying to keep things as simple as possible. Have fitted a 14-28 cluster to the rear wheel, and hoping that will be an adequate gear range for the hills round here. With the 44T chainring, that gives a range of 42" to 85". My MTB has a low gear of 26" and I use it, but I have accepted that I will be doing a lot of standing up and, failing that, walking, with the new gears. I keep telling myself it will improve my strength and hill-climbing ability. I have cut about 10 cm off the huge seatpost and fitted that, along with a Brooks Cambium saddle. I'm a big fan of the B17, but I have heard the Cambiums are super-comfy so will give that a try. Bargain-basement Tourney rear derailleur now fitted as well. It is good for up to 7 speeds, so I have future options there if I need them.

Next, fitting chain, shifter lever and cable. Then a shakedown ride, final tweaks of saddle and bars/levers, fitting the bar tape and I should have a completed bike. Had a quick scoot round the driveway without a chain - felt very strange - and the bike felt good and 'right'.






The green towel around the top tube is to protect the paint from the handlebars. I've dinked the soft paint aleady once, skoolboy error. Once I have the bar tape in place I can relax.


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## Archie_tect (6 Dec 2020)

I've got an 11-14-18-24-32, 5-speed Suntour freewheel on the back of my old Dawes with the original 52/39 front chainrings. I spend 70% of the time, according to the Cyclemeter app, on the 39/18 for just about everything


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## RichardB (6 Dec 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> I've got an 11-14-18-24-32, 5-speed Suntour freewheel on the back of my old Dawes with the original 52/39 front chainrings. I spend 70% of the time, according to the Cyclemeter app, on the 39/18 for just about everything



That's 59", close to the 60" I have heard as a recommendation for a general-purpose single speed bike. I must say I tend to use 'all the gears, all the time', to borrow a motorcycling theme.


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## newfhouse (6 Dec 2020)

RichardB said:


> View attachment 562091


Elegant simplicity, lovely.


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## 12boy (7 Dec 2020)

Nice work, dude....that is one good lookin bike.


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## RichardB (7 Dec 2020)

Frustrating day, all self-inflicted. 

1. Went to fit the chain. Quicklink supplied with the chain fell off into the gravel on the drive and I spent 20 fruitless minutes looking for it. Gone. So I tried to fit another quicklink I had in the toolbox. I must have spent an hour battling with it, getting sore fingers and a scratch in the frame in the process. In the end I realised it was never going to fit, checked the box and ... the chain is a single speed chain, bought when I was thinking of building the bike as a SS/fixie. It’s a 3/32nd chain, but the side plates are too big to allow the quicklink to engage. So off to my LBS for a new 5/6/7 speed chain. Took half a dozen links out and it now fits fine. A ten minute job just took me about 2 hours, and i was freezing. 

2. Fitted the great shifter and attached the cable. Found a length of gear outer for the loop round the rear axle. Put the inner cable through it so I could measure the length of outer required with the outer secured in the chainstay braze-on. Cut the outer to length, thinking ‘these cutters are struggling more than usual’. Then remembered that the inner cable was still in the outer. Well, some of it. 

At this point, I realised I was tired and cold, and it was 4 pm, so I packed everything away and had a bath. 

Tomorrow, new gear cable (will probably buy two just in case) and get the derailleur working. Then test ride, final tweaks and fit the bar tape. Knowing me, I’ll probably fit it sticky side out, or something. Then we’ll have a bike. Perhaps.


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## 12boy (7 Dec 2020)

I don't know how many times I've become aware I'm tired, too hold or too cold and I am approaching a job impatiently and will therefore FUBAR it. The irony is that the task can well be something I would enjoy and even look forward to doing, so by rushing I deny myself some fun and wind up with a POS job. You have done such a beautiful job so far I can sympathize with the urge to get her done. Tomorrow it will be fun again.


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## RichardB (7 Dec 2020)

12boy said:


> I don't know how many times I've become aware I'm tired, too hold or too cold and I am approaching a job impatiently and will therefore FUBAR it. The irony is that the task can well be something I would enjoy and even look forward to doing, so by rushing I deny myself some fun and wind up with a POS job. You have done such a beautiful job so far I can sympathize with the urge to get her done. Tomorrow it will be fun again.



Thank you, my friend. You are right. I have learned now, after many years, to walk away from a job if I am cold, tired or getting frustrated. It is ALWAYS better in the morning! I have FU a bit so far, but not BAR. Tomorrow is another day. With luck, I will be riding it round the lanes by 4 pm.


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## biggs682 (8 Dec 2020)

We all have day's like that especially when messing around with bikes. 

It's coming along nicely so keep it up .


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## RichardB (8 Dec 2020)

OK, bike is now complete (so far). Gear cable bought and fitted, rear derailleur adjusted, saddle and bars tweaked for comfort, quick test ride round the driveway and garden, bar tape fitted. And she's ready for a day out - except the weather here is horrid, cold and damp and not much fun. Perhaps tomorrow. Anyway, just for now here is a pic of the finished article.






A couple of initial observations:

The frame is very light (a not-too-shabby 11.3 kg as pictured), and feels springy and resilient. I think it's going to be a nice ride.

The brakes (humble Tiagra side-pulls) are awesomely good. Far, far better than the Weinmann centre-pulls on my Carlton, which almost planted me into the front of a car a while ago.

The Brooks Cambium saddle already feels as comfy as my B17. I think this may be the way to go.

Possible upgrade routes if the gear range proves too narrow - rear mech will cope with a much bigger tooth difference, so a bigger block and a compact dual chainset are both quite possible with minimal work and expense.

First ride out tomorrow, assuming dry weather and a short task list from the Domestic Manager. Thanks to everyone for comments, suggestions, encouragement and sympathy.


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## raleighnut (8 Dec 2020)

Very Nice 

As for the Cambium I've heard good things about them apart from a tendancy for the top to split across rhe rivets, maybe they've addressed that issue now.


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## Colin Grigson (8 Dec 2020)

Great job there Richard 
That looks a very tidy bike - love it !


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## 12boy (8 Dec 2020)

I put Tiagra brakes on my fixie and they are is still there and working perfectly even for its second owner.


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## Gunk (8 Dec 2020)

that is very nice @RichardB that was right decision with the colour change.


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## RichardB (8 Dec 2020)

Thanks folks, comments appreciated.


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