# On verge of leaving cycle club.



## davidphilips (4 May 2021)

Really upset about an incident this morning. Theres a few non club members cycle alongside us quite often and a few even are in the club chat rooms.

One cyclist has aspergers and often joins in, i asked on club chat could i add him (out of politeness) so he could find out when cyclists are meeting etc, had no objections and even a reply saying no objection.

Tried to add him and found that my privilege for adding members had been removed, Then i posted asking that he be added and then the fun started had a few rude replies. 

Know theres a few idiots in all walks of life but for a cycling club committee member and a few other actually go out of there way to stop another cyclist because he has a disability of any kind to me seems absolutely rotten and know when i next see the guys involved i will be having words.


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## byegad (4 May 2021)

Sounds like the kind of club only a Twunt would want to belong to.


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## I like Skol (4 May 2021)

Is this an formal club with membership fees or similar?

If so then it is not unusual to resist 'freeloaders' who tag along and try to benefit from the club without without making any contribution to the organisation, either financially or otherwise. The given norm is that new or prospective members get to sample club activities and benefits for a reasonable limited period before they are either encouraged to sign up properly or move along.....
Seems fair to me if this is what is happening here. Is there any reason why your freind is unable to join the club formally?

EDIT: Having re-read the OP it seems there has been some unneccessary unpleasentness from other members and this obviously is not acceptable. The rules can usually be explained and adhered to without resorting to nastyness.


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## matticus (4 May 2021)

davidphilips said:


> ...actually go out of there way to stop another cyclist because he has a disability of any kind ...


Yes I agree. You're right to stand up for him.

I'd encourage you to try to make this a learning experience for everyone - don't treat it as a fight. Some people act badly to "differences" out of ignorance/discomfort, not because they are simply bad people. Some good could come of this!

EDIT: you might find that most members are not so unkind; but don't want to rock the boat by standing upto the loud/confident bully types.


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## DCLane (4 May 2021)

+1 to the above from @I like Skol if it's a formal club.

Should they then present issues I'd direct them to BC's disability guidelines and this: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/coaching/article/coast_Level_2_Disability_workshop


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## Darius_Jedburgh (4 May 2021)

You don't need to be in a club. 
You don't have to be in a club. 
You are allowed to ride where you want, when you want, without having some committee decide if it is suitable. 
Remember....committees are usually full of self important little men trying to make a name for themselves. 
Ride with your mates, or ride alone. Perfectly legal. 
Best of all you won't be obliged to buy and wear hideous and overpriced club gear. 

Get out while the going is good.


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## T4tomo (4 May 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> You don't need to be in a club.
> You don't have to be in a club.
> You are allowed to ride where you want, when you want, without having some committee decide if it is suitable.
> Remember....committees are usually full of self important little men trying to make a name for themselves.
> ...


very helpful for the chap with aspergers... NOT!


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## matticus (4 May 2021)

We are a social species - it is natural to want to give and receive mutual support, be it in home life or sports/hobbies.
Many many good things come from sports/outdoors-activity clubs; that can include making "outsider" types feel a bit more valued. (as well as introducing some folks to amazing pasttimes they weren't aware of, or didn't think they could!) 

You can find jerks in all circles of life - doesn't mean all people are jerks!


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## Cycleops (4 May 2021)

You get sort of thing in all types of clubs, not just cycling. The control freaks trying to assert themselves and all loads of other stuff. I used to belong to model flying club, two members had a disagreement and ended up spitting at each other on the field 

As Groucho Marx once famously said ‘ I don’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member’.

Get out.


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## davidphilips (4 May 2021)

byegad said:


> Sounds like the kind of club only a Twunt would want to belong to.



TBH have been a member for a few years now and up to now have never encountered what in my view is not acceptable in any walk of life and until today would offer nothing but praise for the club (one of the largest in north down) who only a few years ago even had tandems to keep cyclists that had sight problems keep cycling.

The club chairman is a really nice guy and think he will be my first port of call but know if this issue is not resolved even if %99 of club members are great i would not want to stay a member, I have a son who has autism and learning difficulties and could not stay part of a club that would look down on him or any one for what ever reason.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

T4tomo said:


> very helpful for the chap with aspergers... NOT!


It could be very useful. Do we know why he wants to join a club? A few years ago when I got heavily back into road biking I thought I might join a club. It kind of seemed like the done thing. I went on a few rides before I joined and I realised that it involved social interaction, strange rules and conventions, talking to strangers, basically all the things I use cycling to avoid. I get out on my bike to get away from people and give my brain some much needed space and freedom from neurotypical conformity. I don't want to hang around with a bunch of strangers that I know I'll never quite fit in with.

So Aspie dude might need to think about why he feels he wants to join in with the club to begin with. It might just not be for him. If he decides it is, fair enough but if he's doing it because of some misguided interpretation of an unspoken convention that that's what cyclists do these days, then he has to think about whether he really wants to and if he might not be happier out on his own.

This is of course quite separate from the issue of their behaviour towards him and the fact that they seem like a bunch of arses. They obviously have some sort of deficit in social and communications skills if that's the way they act.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

matticus said:


> We are a social species - it is natural to want to give and receive mutual support, be it in home life or sports/hobbies.


That is, if I may say, a bit of a neurotypical attitude.


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## Arrowfoot (4 May 2021)

Just enjoy the rides and help the club where you can. Any further and it can ruin your day. It's no different to most clubs where volunteers involved in management are there for years and acquired a sense of entitlement and importance. The saddest is to see parents grovelling to these chaps to help their juniors. 

Don't leave the club as that's what they expect you would do and it becomes a victory. If you remain, they will be cautious and more respectful. No need to exchange any words with these dimwits.


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## T4tomo (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> It could be very useful. Do we know why he wants to join a club?


I think whole point is, and i might be wrong, if that he doesn't particularly want to join that club, but appreciates being able to go out on a group ride with them, and being able to turn up and go (which the OP was considerately facilitating) would be appreciated by someone living with Aspergers, rather than having to go though, what might be quite difficult process of making "formal friendships" for want of a better word to find others to ride with, if and when he doesn't want to ride alone.


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## PaulSB (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> It could be very useful. Do we know why he wants to join a club? A few years ago when I got heavily back into road biking I thought I might join a club. It kind of seemed like the done thing. I went on a few rides before I joined and I realised that it involved social interaction, strange rules and conventions, talking to strangers, basically all the things I use cycling to avoid. I get out on my bike to get away from people and give my brain some much needed space and freedom from neurotypical conformity. I don't want to hang around with a bunch of strangers that I know I'll never quite fit in with.
> 
> So *Aspie dude* might need to think about why he feels he wants to join in with the club to begin with. It might just not be for him. If he decides it is, fair enough but if he's doing it because of some misguided interpretation of an unspoken convention that that's what cyclists do these days, then he has to think about whether he really wants to and if he might not be happier out on his own.
> 
> This is of course quite separate from the issue of their behaviour towards him and the fact that they seem like a bunch of arses. They obviously have some sort of deficit in social and communications skills if that's the way they act.



Without entering in to the whole debate about the club as the parent of an individual with Down Syndrome may I point out the use of "Aspie" is offensive. What would you call my son "Downie?'


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## ClichéGuevara (4 May 2021)

davidphilips said:


> Really upset about an incident this morning. Theres a few non club members cycle alongside us quite often and a few even are in the club chat rooms.
> 
> One cyclist has aspergers and often joins in, i asked on club chat could i add him (out of politeness) so he could find out when cyclists are meeting etc, had no objections and even a reply saying no objection.
> 
> ...



Could you not forward him the details of the rides without going through the group thing? Is it practical for you and a few others to do an additional ride with him, separate to the main bunch?


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## Drago (4 May 2021)

I never understood why one neededmto be in a club to ride on a road alone or with other cyclists.


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## Darius_Jedburgh (4 May 2021)

T4tomo said:


> very helpful for the chap with aspergers... NOT!


You are well and truly off your trolley. Who mentioned the guy with the problem?
Don't jumpt to conclusions. Don't impose your prejudices on others.
Read what was written.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

T4tomo said:


> I think whole point is, and i might be wrong, if that he doesn't particularly want to join that club, but appreciates being able to go out on a group ride with them, and being able to turn up and go (which the OP was considerately facilitating) would be appreciated by someone living with Aspergers, rather than having to go though, what might be quite difficult process of making "formal friendships" for want of a better word to find others to ride with, if and when he doesn't want to ride alone.


Yes, it does read as if he doesn't want actually to join.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Without entering in to the whole debate about the club as the parent of an individual with Down Syndrome may I point out the use of "Aspie" is offensive. What would you call my son "Downie?'


Any reference to Hans Asperger is pretty offensive TBF. I might refer to somebody using a particular term if I myself was a member of that group of people and knew that there was a not insignificant subset of that group who referred to themselves in that way.

Personally I dislike 'has Asperger's' and 'has autism' and prefer to use the term 'is autistic'.


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## Pale Rider (4 May 2021)

It seems to me unlikely the others targeted the guy because he has Asperger's.

But, as paying members, they might reasonably want to kick back at those availing themselves of club benefits without putting anything into the kitty.


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## Milkfloat (4 May 2021)

It sounds like the first problem is that the club is not stringent on only allowing members in the private areas. If they consistently policed that and made ride details available on the public site then the problem should not exist for anybody. If I was a paying member and found out that some others were being treated differently then I would be a bit upset.


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## Eric Olthwaite (4 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> It seems to me unlikely the others targeted the guy because he has Asperger's.
> 
> But, as paying members, they might reasonably want to kick back at those availing themselves of club benefits without putting anything into the kitty.



In our club only paid up members are put on the group WhatsApp for this reason.

What I am not clear on is whether there are specific reasons related to his condition which would make joining the club unusually difficult for him. If there are, then I would hope that could be explained and the rule relaxed.


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## Pale Rider (4 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> In our club only paid up members are put on the group WhatsApp for this reason.
> 
> What I am not clear on is whether there are specific reasons related to his condition which would make joining the club unusually difficult for him. If there are, then I would hope that could be explained and the rule relaxed.



Dr Google tells us those with Asperger's face difficulty with social interaction.

However, the OP says this guy 'often joins in' already, so that difficulty doesn't appear to be relevant.

Or if there were any joining in difficulties, he's already overcome them.


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## matticus (4 May 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Without entering in to the whole debate about the club as the parent of an individual with Down Syndrome may I point out the use of "Aspie" is offensive. What would you call my son "Downie?'


Offensive to whom? You're not even commenting from the family of such a person! What ill intent is implied or inferred by this apparently horrendous 5-letter term.

The person I have had most discussions with about Aspergers cheerfully refers to herself - and others - as Aspy. These are just words; like you can call me Matty if you want x. Or bikey.


Jeez, this thread escalated quickly ...


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## T4tomo (4 May 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Who mentioned the guy with the problem?


er.... the opening post, that what the thread is about...if you'd bothered to read beyond the title .....


Darius_Jedburgh said:


> You are well and truly off your trolley.
> Don't jumpt to conclusions. Don't impose your prejudices on others.
> Read what was written.


I leave you with your own advice fella.


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## fair weather cyclist (4 May 2021)

What I'd do

- speak with the offender to understand reasons and try to make them understand how they could do things differently
- if the above fails, I'd bring the matter up to the whole club to make everyone aware of the situation
- last resort, if offender doesn't change their manners and club doesn't care, I'd leave the club and maybe start a new one.


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## Venod (4 May 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> You don't need to be in a club.
> You don't have to be in a club.
> You are allowed to ride where you want, when you want, without having some committee decide if it is suitable.
> Remember....committees are usually full of self important little men trying to make a name for themselves.
> ...



I couldn't agree more, I have written about this elsewhere on the forum so won't repeat it all here, but basically the rules of BCF and the committee's strict adherence to them (without using common sense) resulted in the last club I was in losing lots of good members, who now still ride together on an informal basis and without the regimented clothing, a much better arrangement.


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## Sunny Portrush (4 May 2021)

Just tell your friend when you are going out with the club so he can tag along and hopefully annoy some committee members


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

matticus said:


> Offensive to whom? You're not even commenting from the family of such a person! What ill intent is implied or inferred by this apparently horrendous 5-letter term.
> 
> The person I have had most discussions with about Aspergers cheerfully refers to herself - and others - as Aspy. These are just words; like you can call me Matty if you want x. Or bikey.
> 
> ...


Well yeah, a neurotypical person telling an autistic person how to refer to another autistic person on behalf of their child who has a completely unrelated condition is peak gatekeeping. But it's not what this thread is about and we are risking a rather messy derail.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Dr Google tells us those with Asperger's face difficulty with social interaction.
> 
> However, the OP says this guy 'often joins in' already, so that difficulty doesn't appear to be relevant.
> 
> Or if there were any joining in difficulties, he's already overcome them.


It might not be quite as simple as that. Having performed a social interaction the once does not necessarily remove the anxiety of performing it a second time.


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## cyberknight (4 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> It seems to me unlikely the others targeted the guy because he has Asperger's.
> 
> But, as paying members, they might reasonably want to kick back at those availing themselves of club benefits without putting anything into the kitty.


just looked it up £140 a year for BC affiliation along with the uncounted hours spent (unpaid of course ) by various ride leaders and club secretaries etc sorting stuff out .
In this case given the situation i think they need to get their head out of their holes but i can see your reasoning


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## Milzy (4 May 2021)

davidphilips said:


> Really upset about an incident this morning. Theres a few non club members cycle alongside us quite often and a few even are in the club chat rooms.
> 
> One cyclist has aspergers and often joins in, i asked on club chat could i add him (out of politeness) so he could find out when cyclists are meeting etc, had no objections and even a reply saying no objection.
> 
> ...


We have a young lad from another local club who comes with ours sometimes. He’s autistic but tries his best. He has made his own landscape gardening business & has contracts with Harrogate council. Bought himself an F12 recently & is raking in the money well. Nobody would ever be so low to take the mick, he’s liked by many.


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## Brandane (4 May 2021)

Is Aspergers actually a disability? Really? I have a personal interest in this one given that I have 2 nephews who have been diagnosed with it. You wouldn't know in either case.

Having done some research into it, I would consider it to be a personality trait, rather than a "disability". Do we really need to label people who are not programmed the same way as "normal" (whatever that might be) with some sort of disability?


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## Smokin Joe (4 May 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> You don't need to be in a club.
> You don't have to be in a club.


But you might want to be. 

I was for years and loved the bond of a shared interest with like minded people, the organised events and the technical and riding tips that were readily available. If it's not for you then so be it, but don't knock those who are.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

Milzy said:


> He’s autistic but tries his best.


Bless.


Brandane said:


> Is Aspergers actually a disability? Really? I have a personal interest in this one given that I have 2 nephews who have been diagnosed with it. You wouldn't know in either case.
> 
> Having done some research into it, I would consider it to be a personality trait, rather than a "disability". Do we really need to label people who are not programmed the same way as "normal" (whatever that might be) with some sort of disability?


It's a personal thing. Some consider it a disability, some don't. Some suggest that the way that society is arranged around neurotypical needs and preferences is what makes it a disability since it is difficult to fit in. A majority autistic society might view the non-autistic as disabled.

As a sort of related issue, 'you wouldn't know' that a great many people are autistic. Part of the reason for that could be that they are spending a great deal of energy, perhaps unconciously, masking and trying to fit in and appear normal, which can itself be exhausting and therefore quite disabling.


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## Dwn (4 May 2021)

Brandane said:


> Is Aspergers actually a disability? Really? I have a personal interest in this one given that I have 2 nephews who have been diagnosed with it. You wouldn't know in either case.
> 
> Having done some research into it, I would consider it to be a personality trait, rather than a "disability". Do we really need to label people who are not programmed the same way as "normal" (whatever that might be) with some sort of disability?



It’s formally classed as a disability, in part for the additional support that families can receive - although there is a spectrum of how severe the condition can be, and not all people concerned would be identified in that way. As the grandparent of a child who has been diagnosed with this, it’s encouraging to see greater awareness from the general public and organisations. 

Without knowing the specific details from the OP, it does sound like some of the people concerned have acted like d*cks, but that may be through ignorance rather than malice. The truth is that many people just aren’t aware of neurodiverse conditions or perhaps don’t know enough to respond properly.


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## dodgy (4 May 2021)

Clubs are great, until one day someone turns up with a clipboard. Then the meetings start, then it's all over.


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## raleighnut (4 May 2021)

3rd eldest grandaughter is autistic and she is fantastic, she has no 'filters' when talking to people.................if Georgia thinks you are a 'peanut' then she'll tell you so, I've lost count of the number of people she's told to "feck off' (normally blokes trying to 'chat her up in pubs)
Luckily she likes me.


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## Pale Rider (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> It might not be quite as simple as that. Having performed a social interaction the once does not necessarily remove the anxiety of performing it a second time.



We are told the guy joins in 'often', thus he has got over any anxiety of joining in many times.

Thus anxiety/Asperger's does not appear to be a relevant feature in this case.


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## Rusty Nails (4 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> We are told the guy joins in 'often', thus he has got over any anxiety of joining in many times.
> 
> Thus anxiety/Asperger's does not appear to be a relevant feature in this case.



It's amazing the assumptions people make about someone based on a few posts in an internet forum. He may well have to overcome feelings of anxiety every time he joins a ride, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has "got over it".

I thought this thread was about possibly unpleasant attitudes of some people in cycling clubs rather than a debate about one person's autism.


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## Eric Olthwaite (4 May 2021)

Rusty Nails said:


> It's amazing the assumptions people make about someone based on a few posts in an internet forum. He may well have to overcome feelings of anxiety every time he joins a ride, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has "got over it".
> 
> I thought this thread was about possibly unpleasant attitudes of some people in cycling clubs rather than a debate about one person's autism.



I agree, we don't have enough information to judge this person's situation. But we don't have enough information to judge the fellow club members' behaviour, either.


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> We are told the guy joins in 'often', thus he has got over any anxiety of joining in many times.
> 
> Thus anxiety/Asperger's does not appear to be a relevant feature in this case.


Without knowing the guy we can't say. It could well be that access to the club chat forum would be a useful tool to help him overcome the anxiety and give him the confidence to join in. Maybe.

You'd hope that if they don't want that to happen outside full membership then rather than shut him out they would encourage him to join the club properly...


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## pawl (4 May 2021)

matticus said:


> Offensive to whom? You're not even commenting from the family of such a person! What ill intent is implied or inferred by this apparently horrendous 5-letter term.
> 
> The person I have had most discussions with about Aspergers cheerfully refers to herself - and others - as Aspy. These are just words; like you can call me Matty if you want x. Or bikey.
> 
> ...




My nine year granddaughter has Aspergers and is highly intelligent she does have some difficulty forming relationships but given time and encouragement eventually developed a close bond

As regarding abbreviation I personally don’t like them particularly when referring to some form of what is seen as a disability is to me and parents is offensive Just use the correct terminology We have all seen the offensive abbreviations to describe people of different colour or race or religion


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

pawl said:


> My nine year granddaughter has Aspergers and is highly intelligent she does have some difficulty forming relationships but given time and encouragement eventually developed a close bond
> 
> As regarding abbreviation I personally don’t like them particularly when referring to some form of what is seen as a disability is to me and parents is offensive Just use the correct terminology We have all seen the offensive abbreviations to describe people of different colour or race or religion


The 'correct terminology' is autism spectrum disorder. But... parents or grandparents of autistic people do not get to decide how actually autistic people refer to themselves. I'm sure that your granddaughter is or will be able to decide how she wishes to refer to herself.

In case anyone isn't aware, the legacy of Hans Asperger is problematic due to his links with Nazi eugenics. Many autistic people do not wish to be associated with his name. OTOH, many do not have a problem and refer to themselves as having Asperger's or as Aspies. Also Autistics, Austists or Auties. It's their choice.


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## pawl (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> The 'correct terminology' is autism spectrum disorder. But... parents or grandparents of autistic people do not get to decide how actually autistic people refer to themselves. I'm sure that your granddaughter is or will be able to decide how she wishes to refer to herself.
> 
> In case anyone isn't aware, the legacy of Hans Asperger is problematic due to his links with Nazi eugenics. Many autistic people do not wish to be associated with his name. OTOH, many do not have a problem and refer to themselves as having Asperger's or as Aspies. Also Autistics, Austists or Auties. It's their choice.
> [/QUOT
> ...


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

Well yes, that's why I kind of took exception to the original comment telling me that 'Aspie' was an offensive term. I actually chose the phrase carefully as I wanted to call back to the 'aspergers' mentioned in the OP but use a less obviously medicalised term. Oh well, that backfired I guess.

Anyway, far more importantly, your real name isn't Paul? That's disappointing.


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## pawl (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> Well yes, that's why I kind of took exception to the original comment telling me that 'Aspie' was an offensive term. I actually chose the phrase carefully as I wanted to call back to the 'aspergers' mentioned in the OP but use a less obviously medicalised term. Oh well, that backfired I guess.
> 
> Anyway, far more importantly, your real name isn't Paul? That's disappointing.





I thought when I joined CC I wanted a name that had cycling connection hence pawl .I suppose there are many things I could have used cycle appropriate

Just watching MyYorkshire Farm. Yorkshire is my favourite place to visit both on bike and foot
Stay safe


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## DaveReading (4 May 2021)

winjim said:


> OTOH, many do not have a problem and refer to themselves as having Asperger's or as Aspies. Also Autistics, Austists or Auties. It's their choice.



It boils down to whether you are happy to be defined by your condition rather than being treated as an individual.

Some are happy to be. Others aren't.


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## HMS_Dave (4 May 2021)

Be Tom Skerritt in Top Gun. "gimme a call i'll fly ride with ya"...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjcHwxFilz4


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## winjim (4 May 2021)

DaveReading said:


> It boils down to whether you are happy to be defined by your condition rather than being treated as an individual.
> 
> Some are happy to be. Others aren't.


As I see it it's about incorporating your neurotype into your identity.


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## matticus (5 May 2021)

pawl said:


> As regarding abbreviation I personally don’t like them particularly when referring to some form of what is seen as a disability is to me and parents is offensive Just use the correct terminology We have all seen the offensive abbreviations to describe people of different colour or race or religion


I hope you're not implying I've done something on the level of calling someone a Paki. I'll assume that you are not, and then we can all get along, OK? 👍


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## nickyboy (5 May 2021)

I think it's a perfectly reasonable stance of the club that anyone can tag along and ride but if you want to be part of the whatsapp group that organises the rides etc you should be a member of the club

The problem that the OP has is that some non-members have been allowed into the whatsapp group and that the group administrator has changed the OP's rights in the group without talking to him first

Typical small club issue due to people running it making decisions without thinking of the consequences properly. Correct approach would be to ask the non members in the whatsapp group to either leave the group or join the club. They can continue to get ride info from elsewhere and tag along if they wish. Or allow anyone into the whatsapp group


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

nickyboy said:


> I think it's a perfectly reasonable stance of the club that anyone can tag along and ride but if you want to be part of the whatsapp group that organises the rides etc you should be a member of the club
> 
> The problem that the OP has is that some non-members have been allowed into the whatsapp group and that the group administrator has changed the OP's rights in the group without talking to him first
> 
> Typical small club issue due to people running it making decisions without thinking of the consequences properly. Correct approach would be to ask the non members in the whatsapp group to either leave the group or join the club. They can continue to get ride info from elsewhere and tag along if they wish. Or allow anyone into the whatsapp group


That's fair enough but if the chap is being excluded because of his Aspergers then that's not right. He may find it easier to communicate via a Whatsapp group than by other means, although I understand the point about access being via membership. However, I take the op's 'the fun started' and 'rude replies' to mean they were mocking him. That's out of order and the op is right to want to have words.


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## Pale Rider (5 May 2021)

Rusty Nails said:


> I thought this thread was about possibly unpleasant attitudes of some people in cycling clubs rather than a debate about one person's autism.





Pale Rider said:


> Thus anxiety/Asperger's does not appear to be a relevant feature in this case.


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## Milkfloat (5 May 2021)

We don't actually have the full story or even half of it. So we cannot judge whether he is being excluded due to not being a member or because of Aspergers. If it is the former, then great (perhaps other freeloaders have been ejected too) if it is the later then it is illegal and well as being completely wrong. My money is on the former.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

You said autism wasn't relevant because he'd got over it and then an actually autistic person told you it maybe wasn't that simple and now suddenly it's not about autism at all...

I sort of agree, a lot of the autism discussion is kind of a side issue, albeit an interesting and potentially useful one imo. But to frame it in the way you have with those quotes seems disingenuous to me.


Edit: nested quotes so it's not obvious but this is in response to PR a couple of posts up.


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## pawl (5 May 2021)

matticus said:


> I hope you're not implying I've done something on the level of calling someone a Paki. I'll assume that you are not, and then we can all get along, OK? 👍




Ii apologies I wasn’t implying that Just that to me abbreviations are sometimes inappropriate The consultant I worked with was a gereatic specialist That was changed to consultant for older people.,mainly because certain members of staff at team meetings would refer to patients as geres.


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## Rusty Nails (5 May 2021)

_QUOTE="Pale Rider, post: 6401203, member: 24609"]

[/QUOTE_

It was clearly a feature in the post as it was the condition that led to the alleged unpleasant actions of some in the cycling club. What it was not was the main point of the post, nor a reason to comment on the impact of the condition of the person concerned.

My comment still stands. Your comments were unnecessary, irrelevant and not based on knowledge of that condition.


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## FishFright (5 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> We are told the guy joins in 'often', thus he has got over any anxiety of joining in many times.
> 
> Thus anxiety/Asperger's does not appear to be a relevant feature in this case.



You don't 'get over' Asperger's / high functioning autism.


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## Pale Rider (5 May 2021)

Rusty Nails said:


> _QUOTE="Pale Rider, post: 6401203, member: 24609"]
> 
> [/QUOTE_
> 
> ...



Several posters on here seem to agree with my contention that Asperger's is not relevant to the reaction of the other members.

Your posts on that matter are at best opaque, but it remains a relevant consideration.



FishFright said:


> You don't 'get over' Asperger's / high functioning autism.



I didn't say you did, but thanks for the info.


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## Teamfixed (5 May 2021)

Its a shame that a persons personality traits profile is used in any negative way. In reality we all have to learn to adapt our behaviours to suit others if we want to get on. 
We all have a position on whichever scale you wish to cite.
Any negativity tends to suggest a weakness or fear. I wouldn't feel comfortable being around people who could not be bothered to enlighten themselves.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

FishFright said:


> You don't 'get over' Asperger's / high functioning autism.


No, but you can get over some of the anxieties, or develop coping strategies, which is what I think @Pale Rider was suggesting.


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## FishFright (5 May 2021)

winjim said:


> No, but you can get over some of the anxieties, or develop coping strategies, which is what I think @Pale Rider was suggesting.



Or as my friend calls it , disguises. And I don't think he did but that's just an opinion.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

FishFright said:


> Or as my friend calls it , disguises. And I don't think he did but that's just an opinion.


I don't know, I would say that disguising anxiety is a slightly different thing to genuinely overcoming it, but it is maybe a subtle difference and I see where they're coming from.


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## Brandane (5 May 2021)

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but the thread appears to have evolved towards an aspergers discussion anyway, so....
As I have suspected for a long time, according to this online test for Aspergers, I am upper borderline with a score of 31. I have done several tests and always get a similar result - so it's not just this one. As previously posted, I have 2 nephews who have been diagnosed with Aspergers and it is possibly genetic. I have been previously diagnosed with social anxiety, and there appears to be a link between the two conditions. 




> 0-11 low result – indicating no tendency at all towards autistic traits.
> [*]11-21 is the average result that people get (many women average around 15 and men around 17)
> [*]22-25 shows autistic tendencies slightly above the population average
> [*]26-31 gives a borderline indication of an autism spectrum disorder. It is also possible to have aspergers or mild autism within this range.
> [*]32-50 indicates a strong likelihood of Asperger syndrome or autism.



At the ripe old age of almost 59 I don't see much point in wasting NHS resources trying to get an "official" diagnosis - what can be done anyway? I have already adjusted my life to suit the social anxiety thing, and I don't consider it to be a disability. Things could be an awful lot worse, and most people I have met (including those from this forum ) probably wouldn't notice. The SA only really kicks in at more formal gatherings. I get very uncomfortable at weddings, funerals etc. when I have to sit still in rows with other people. Interviews are a nightmare for me, as were various events in the Police (sitting in classrooms during training, standing in one spot at football matches, public speaking, and the worst of the lot - standing at attention during inspection by senior officers).

The upside is I am perfectly comfortable standing in a pub (as long as it's not too busy) having a pint or two, and riding a bike. So that's about all you need in life, is it not?


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## Brandane (5 May 2021)

winjim said:


> No, but you can get over some of the anxieties, or develop coping strategies, which is what I think @Pale Rider was suggesting.


Something as simple as chewing on a piece of gum. When I told a psychiatrist about my use of that he described it as a "distractor"; a coping mechanism which I had inadvertently discovered for myself. But people get a bit funny about someone chewing gum during a funeral service, so I have to be discrete about it!


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

Brandane said:


> Something as simple as chewing on a piece of gum. When I told a psychiatrist about my use of that he described it as a "distractor"; a coping mechanism which I had inadvertently discovered for myself. But people get a bit funny about someone chewing gum during a funeral service, so I have to be discrete about it!


Self stimulation or 'stimming'. It's a well known autistic activity. Some say that it aids in sensory processing of external overstimulation.


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## glasgowcyclist (5 May 2021)

Brandane said:


> according to this online test for Aspergers, I am upper borderline with a score of 31.




Out of curiosity I tried it and my score was 27. I wasn't expecting that.


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## Milkfloat (5 May 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Out of curiosity I tried it and my score was 27. I wasn't expecting that.


I got 33 and was not expecting that at all. Then again Myers Briggs informs me that I am an extrovert, but I am not, so I don't trust these tests.


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## Eric Olthwaite (5 May 2021)

38. Not unexpected.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Out of curiosity I tried it and my score was 27. I wasn't expecting that.


I got a not entirely unexpected 41, but I see that the test was developed by Simon Baron-Cohen* whose contributions to the field of autism research are not without controversy.





*Yes


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## newfhouse (5 May 2021)

I got 39. I don’t think it is sufficiently sophisticated to say much of value on its own.


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## Eric Olthwaite (5 May 2021)

I suspect frequenters of a cycling forum will on average be a lot higher up that scale than the general population.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> I suspect frequenters of a cycling forum will on average be a lot higher up that scale than the general population.


Do you like computers, communicating by text, intricate mechanisms and getting out in the fresh air on your own? Do you enjoy collecting and analysing data, both biomechanical and technical? Do you have a particular special interest or hobby?

Yes, I see what you mean.


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## Bazzer (5 May 2021)

One of my daughters has to have reasonable adjustments made as a result of ASD. Mrs B had suspected it for years with me.
Fortunately there are some enlightened employers/managers out there, who may not know why you see or react to the world differently, but recognise that it can be mutually beneficial.


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## Fab Foodie (5 May 2021)

Brandane said:


> Sorry if this is a bit off topic but the thread appears to have evolved towards an aspergers discussion anyway, so....
> As I have suspected for a long time, according to this online test for Aspergers, I am upper borderline with a score of 31. I have done several tests and always get a similar result - so it's not just this one. As previously posted, I have 2 nephews who have been diagnosed with Aspergers and it is possibly genetic. I have been previously diagnosed with social anxiety, and there appears to be a link between the two conditions.
> 
> 
> ...


I got 16, which makes me just an average Joe....


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## Fab Foodie (5 May 2021)

winjim said:


> Do you like computers, communicating by text, intricate mechanisms and getting out in the fresh air on your own? Do you enjoy collecting and analysing data, both biomechanical and technical? Do you have a particular special interest or hobby?
> 
> Yes, I see what you mean.


Do you like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain?
And the feel of the ocean, and the taste of champagne?


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> Do you like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain?
> And the feel of the ocean, and the taste of champagne?


Not really.


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## lane (5 May 2021)

Involved in a family discussion about ASD the circumstances of which I won't go into. 

I said to my son "You don't worry about things much do you"
He said "No, not really. But that's just because I don't have much to worry about".
Classic. 
Don't think he would score very high on an ASD test.


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## BoldonLad (5 May 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> I got 16, which makes me just an average Joe....



32 here, does that me make me half average or twice average? 

Not terribly surprised, I worked in IT, always preferred software to people, although, I did find on retiring, I missed seeing the people, which surprised me greatly.


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## Mo1959 (5 May 2021)

34 which doesn’t surprise me.


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## Pale Rider (5 May 2021)

Fourteen for me, which makes me closer to Mrs Average than Mr Average, but still firmly average.


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## ClichéGuevara (5 May 2021)

With a basic understanding of AS, you could answer those questions honestly and make it hit whichever end of the spectrum you want, which is possibly what people subconsciously do. Too many of the questions are of the 'it depends' variety for it to be meaningful.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

ClichéGuevara said:


> With a basic understanding of AS, you could answer those questions honestly and make it hit whichever end of the spectrum you want, which is possibly what people subconsciously do. Too many of the questions are of the 'it depends' variety for it to be meaningful.


SBC talking bollocks? You don't say.


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## Fab Foodie (5 May 2021)

winjim said:


> Not really.


Damn....you're not the one for me....


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## Fab Foodie (5 May 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> 32 here, does that me make me half average or twice average?
> 
> Not terribly surprised, I worked in IT, always preferred software to people, although, I did find on retiring, I missed seeing the people, which surprised me greatly.


Exceedingly average....


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## yello (5 May 2021)

For me, it's not just 'it depends' with some of those questions (which, I agree, can be answered according to whichever outcome you might desire) but also 'what do you mean by?' That is, I find myself too often wrapped up in a semantic interpretation.

For example, 'you usually' xyz - what do you mean by "usually"? How often is that? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't keep score.

Or, what do you mean by "sociable"? I talk to people sometimes willingly, sometimes if I have to but sometimes prefer not to - yet other times can almost witty and, dare I say it, engaging. Which one of those is the one I answer for?

I can't answer honestly because, like most people, I change and can answer 'honestly' a, b, c or d on any given day.


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## winjim (5 May 2021)

Fab Foodie said:


> Damn....you're not the one for me....


Lucky escape.


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## tyred (5 May 2021)

38, but definitely a lot of those questions are of the "it depends" type.


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## AuroraSaab (5 May 2021)

Brandane said:


> Something as simple as chewing on a piece of gum. When I told a psychiatrist about my use of that he described it as a "distractor"; a coping mechanism which I had inadvertently discovered for myself. But people get a bit funny about someone chewing gum during a funeral service, so I have to be discrete about it!




I think the chewing gum thing is pretty well known. If you've ever had a pet like a rabbit or guinea pig, they only eat when they feel safe. If they hear a noise they stop eating. Chewing gum fools your primitive brain into thinking it is 'safe' and lowers anxiety.

There's also a thing called the tapping technique which can help with anxiety. Lots of YouTube videos on it. Gentle, regular tapping with your fingertips on your face, arms etc. mimics the heartbeat you felt in the womb so it has a comforting effect.

My OH has taken a few online tests that say he is borderline autistic. He isn't, he just likes numbers, Maths, and a load of other stuff that are considered personality traits of people with autism. I wouldn't put much store on online tests tbh.

Simon Baron Cohen has a lot to answer for. His contention that autism is an extreme version of the male brain is quite damaging in my opinion.


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## DCBassman (5 May 2021)

43. I too did feel that the questions could be ambiguous. But I tried hard to be objective and honest, so...


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## Rusty Nails (5 May 2021)

This is not really a test as there is no pass/fail or even a right/wrong. It is really to help produce a profile fitting someone's preferences to a spectrum.

I used to administer such profiles to help match applicants to job specifications when I was a recruitment manager. They are at best OK to use the results to help frame questions as part of the selection/diagnostic process but are not accurate enough to make decisions on.

We used to refer to some of the less scientifically robust ones as horoscopes because the outcomes varied by what sort of day the person completing them had had.


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## Bazzer (5 May 2021)

The two different times my daughter has been assessed, (once privately and once through her university), the test is more than these 50 questions. At least an hour by the individual being tested and parents are also spoken to to ask about behaviours, which also lasts at least an hour.
Edit: Quite amusing to see Mrs B's response to certain questions. Her exasperation at having to cope with my daughter who likes the DVDs in order of colour, whereas I prefer them alphabetical. And she doesn't see the point in either.


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## Pale Rider (5 May 2021)

AuroraSaab said:


> I think the chewing gum thing is pretty well known. If you've ever had a pet like a rabbit or guinea pig, they only eat when they feel safe. If they hear a noise they stop eating. Chewing gum fools your primitive brain into thinking it is 'safe' and lowers anxiety.
> 
> There's also a thing called the tapping technique which can help with anxiety. Lots of YouTube videos on it. Gentle, regular tapping with your fingertips on your face, arms etc. mimics the heartbeat you felt in the womb so it has a comforting effect.
> 
> ...



In a similar vein, I recall a psychiatrist examining an interview by Michael Parkinson.

The guest had his legs crossed, and when Parky put him under a bit of pressure you could see the leg in the air moving forwards and backwards.

The trick cyclist said that indicated the discomfiture of the guest who at that point wanted to walk away from the interview.


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