# E-bike recommendation please



## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

I've decided to treat myself soon and would like some help.

It's not that hard for me to cycle the 6.5 miles to work but it is arduous, a sort of cross city training facility for a fitter younger guy! It's split into thirds, a long decline followed by some flat, then a long v.steep incline, it's tough but the main problem is that winter or summer, I arrive in a sweaty mess. Add on walking many miles a shift and I can get tired out and often regret taking the cycle in.

Maybe a budget of £2k (but not fixed)? My normal cycling is mainly towpath/trail on a hybrid plus touring and long day rides in the Dales on my audax bike, all at plodding pace. I am totally uninterested in fat tyred MTB type cycles and I don't really need or want any suspension.

But I don't want to spend £2k on just a commuter, the bike must lend itself to enabling me to go further and making my day rides longer, should I wish to use it.


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## jowwy (8 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> I've decided to treat myself soon and would like some help.
> 
> It's not that hard for me to cycle the 6.5 miles to work but it is arduous, a sort of cross city training facility for a fitter younger guy! It's split into thirds, a long decline followed by some flat, then a long v.steep incline, it's tough but the main problem is that winter or summer, I arrive in a sweaty mess. Add on walking many miles a shift and I can get tired out and often regret taking the cycle in.
> 
> ...


Cube acid......got two of them myself and they are a cracking bike and less than 2k with a 500wh battery


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

jowwy said:


> Cube acid......got two of them myself and they are a cracking bike and less than 2k with a 500wh battery


 Look to all have suspension?


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## jowwy (8 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> Look to all have suspension?


Be tough to find an ebike without.....but it’s easy to swap out the suspension forks for carbon or steel forks which is what I did with mine and still be less than 2k


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## jowwy (8 Apr 2020)

cube acid, carbon forks, rack and 47mm tyres and 500wh battery..........all less than 2k


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

Thanks @jowwy but I want something out of the box ready if possible, 32mm max tyres are what I am thinking of.


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## jowwy (8 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> Thanks @jowwy but I want something out of the box ready if possible, 32mm max tyres are what I am thinking of.


Orbea then or ribble....both have hybrid ebikes available, but rear hub driven and small 257wh batteries


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## Electric_Andy (8 Apr 2020)

I had a Wisper 905 (or something). Only had front suspension but you could adjust it to (near) lockout. Front discs were Tektro which I upgraded to Avid BB5 I think. I could have just put better pads in I suppose, they were fine but I wanted better stopping power in the wet. It had built in lights that ran off the battery, and mudguards.

A very nice and comfy bike, battery was good for 45 miles of hilly terrain, but they cost over £500. Support was excellent, my battery wasn't charging after a year of solid use (5 days a week minimum). They sent me a new charger, that didn't work. So they sent me a new battery even though the warranty had expired by 3 days. Oh and they sent me some new spokes which had snapped (but I never checked or adjusted them so might have been lack of maintenance). It also had a pannier which i fitted a small to pbox to, very handy and IME better than bags.

Edit: Looks like they don't do the downtube batteries now, the newer ones seem to sit on the rear rack which I don't like (it uses up space that could otherwise be used for luggage)


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## raleighnut (8 Apr 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> I had a Wisper 905 (or something). Only had front suspension but you could adjust it to (near) lockout. Front discs were Tektro which I upgraded to Avid BB5 I think. I could have just put better pads in I suppose, they were fine but I wanted better stopping power in the wet. It had built in lights that ran off the battery, and mudguards.
> 
> A very nice and comfy bike, battery was good for 45 miles of hilly terrain, but they cost over £500. Support was excellent, my battery wasn't charging after a year of solid use (5 days a week minimum). They sent me a new charger, that didn't work. So they sent me a new battery even though the warranty had expired by 3 days. Oh and they sent me some new spokes which had snapped (but I never checked or adjusted them so might have been lack of maintenance). It also had a pannier which i fitted a small to pbox to, very handy and IME better than bags.
> 
> Edit: Looks like they don't do the downtube batteries now, the newer ones seem to sit on the rear rack which I don't like (it uses up space that could otherwise be used for luggage)


Not sure if they're available for your bike but the kit on mine (and Maz') has a 'double decker' rack where the battery sits in a slot under the top leaving that free to stick bags etc. on.





You can just see it sticking out a bit under the flat top, the controller sits in a little compartment at the front of the rack and stays in place when the battery is unlocked and removed.


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## Pale Rider (8 Apr 2020)

Ebikes without suspension are rare, but Evans has the answer.

Their Pinnacle Lithium ebike has a rigid fork and the Shimano Steps motor which is very similar in operation to the Bosch motor.

Lots of frame clearance, though the fitted 2" Conti Speed tyres should be suitable for your use.

Not the biggest battery, but it should do you 40 miles or so if you put some effort in and don't try to beast too many hills.

https://www.evanscycles.com/pinnacle-lithium-ion-2020-electric-hybrid-bike-EV353459


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## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

jowwy said:


> Cube acid......got two of them myself and they are a cracking bike and less than 2k with a 500wh battery





MarkF said:


> Look to all have suspension?


Another vote for the Acid, I have a 2020 model with 500W battery £1600, not sure what the reference to suspension means, do you mean you don't want one with it, or you think it's not up to scratch, I fitted a SR SUNTOUR SP12-NCX Suspension Seat post to assist my comfort.


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## Mrs M (8 Apr 2020)

Whyte do some nice bikes, integrated lights and mudguards. Fancy the ladies version myself


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Another vote for the Acid, I have a 2020 model with 500W battery £1600, not sure what the reference to suspension means, do you mean you don't want one with it, or you think it's not up to scratch, I fitted a SR SUNTOUR SP12-NCX Suspension Seat post to assist my comfort.



I don't want any suspension, the e-bike will only do what l do already & I've never needed it.


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## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> I don't want any suspension, the e-bike will only do what l do already & I've never needed it.


Ah okay, I find it helps, but I ride off road a lot, I must admit on the Cube Attention non Ebike I lock out the forks when in the road, but still like a bit of bounce in the saddle, so have another sprung post.


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## Pale Rider (8 Apr 2020)

The Whyte would suit.

Similar spec to the Pinnacle, although it might have a later version of the Steps motor.

Hard to justify the extra eight hundred over the Pinnacle.

You probably would get a discount which would reduce the difference a little.

https://whyte.bike/collections/e-bikes/products/highgate


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## Electric_Andy (8 Apr 2020)

Sorry if this is telling granny how to suck eggs. But have you tried an e-assistance bike before? I had one for a year and commuted similar to you - my journey was mostly uphill all the way (4 miles) to work, not a bad ride back though. I thought it would allow me to not arrive at work sweaty. I was wrong. The motor is not powerful enough to get up hills on it's own, so I found myself pedalling almost as hard as usual to make good time. Sitting at 5mph up a hill without pedalling is a bit like putting your favourite cake in front of your nose and not eating it. It's very hard to do, impatience and temptation kick in, you find yourself putting in as much work as a normal bike (perhaps only 70% on the climbs). Downhill the motor is redundant, and on the flat, yeah that's quite handy in a headwind. Just thought I'd mention it, as I probably wouldn't spend £1600 on another if my commute was the same.


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## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

I think it depends on how you ride it, when out on the non-E I very rarely get above 9mph, but on the E-bike I'm always above 11mph & have been known to get into the 12's. I come back just as knackered, but I either get back quicker or I have gone further, but if I was going to work then at the same lower speed I would arrive much fresher, if you could resist the urge to go faster.


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## rualexander (8 Apr 2020)

Boardman ebike hybrid?
Uses the Fazua drive system with removable battery/motor.
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/hybrid-bikes/boardman-hyb-8.9e-mens-hybrid-electric-bike-133934.html


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> The Whyte would suit.
> 
> Similar spec to the Pinnacle, although it might have a later version of the Steps motor.
> 
> ...


 
The Pinnacle is too ugly so I wouldn't like to own it, the Whyte looks better, frame and battery are more integrated but it's still no beauty. Both look perfect for my commute but I couldn't imagine choosing either out of my garage for a nice long day ride. I'll have a good look through some sites, Tredz and the like. Many thanks.


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## Mike_P (8 Apr 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> Sorry if this is telling granny how to suck eggs. But have you tried an e-assistance bike before? I had one for a year and commuted similar to you - my journey was mostly uphill all the way (4 miles) to work, not a bad ride back though. I thought it would allow me to not arrive at work sweaty. I was wrong. The motor is not powerful enough to get up hills on it's own, so I found myself pedalling almost as hard as usual to make good time. Sitting at 5mph up a hill without pedalling is a bit like putting your favourite cake in front of your nose and not eating it. It's very hard to do, impatience and temptation kick in, you find yourself putting in as much work as a normal bike (perhaps only 70% on the climbs). Downhill the motor is redundant, and on the flat, yeah that's quite handy in a headwind. Just thought I'd mention it, as I probably wouldn't spend £1600 on another if my commute was the same.


Where was the motor on it? Front wheel absolutely useless, rear wheel not brilliant on hills, bottom bracket far better


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## Pale Rider (8 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> The Pinnacle is too ugly so I wouldn't like to own it, the Whyte looks better, frame and battery are more integrated but it's still no beauty. Both look perfect for my commute but I couldn't imagine choosing either out of my garage for a nice long day ride. I'll have a good look through some sites, Tredz and the like. Many thanks.



Scoping about is a good idea, but I suspect you will soon get fed up of seeing almost identical ebikes all with a suspension fork.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I thought the frame coloured mudguards on the Pinnacle was a nice touch.

I shall be interested to see what you find that, in your eye, is substantially better looking than the Pinnacle or the Whyte.

Maybe I lack imagination, but to me all £2k hybrid ebikes look pretty much the same.


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Maybe I lack imagination, but to me all £2k hybrid ebikes look pretty much the same.



If that's the case then I'll probably not buy one, because I know that unless I "like" something, I won't look after it.


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## Electric_Andy (9 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Where was the motor on it? Front wheel absolutely useless, rear wheel not brilliant on hills, bottom bracket far better


I think it was BB rear wheel drive. It was getting on for 7 years ago now so i can't quite remember!


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## gzoom (9 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> The Pinnacle is too ugly so I wouldn't like to own it.



Let's be honest we are all vain in some way, and like you the way a bike looks is as important to me as how it performs.

This is partly why I bought a Boardman hybrid with the Fazua system. All the previous eBikes I looked at just didnt seem right with an awful looking brick stuck on the down tube, where as the Boardman looks as clean/nice as bike as my Trek road bike side by side.







Fazua are also about to release a substantial firmware upgrade for the bike to make it perform better, and bare in mind the Fazua system in the Boardman is exactly the same as the one found in a 5 figure Look roadbike, the £2k asking price from Halford almost seem like a steal!!

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/fazua-evation-black-pepper-software-update-review/

Riddle also make some nice eBikes that look normal. For your usage I think you will find these e assistance bikes will work well......and look good at the same time .


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## MarkF (9 Apr 2020)

gzoom said:


> Let's be honest we are all vain in some way, and like you the way a bike looks is as important to me as how it performs.
> 
> This is partly why I bought a Boardman hybrid with the Fazua system. All the previous eBikes I looked at just didnt seem right with an awful looking brick stuck on the down tube, where as the Boardman looks as clean/nice as bike as my Trek road bike side by side.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, if something is not aesthetically pleasing to my eyes then l won't like it, no matter how good it is. To me, the Pinnacle looked like a "yesterday" ebike at best and a DIY one at worst!

Yours is more like it & l agree with the power output comments, l will have a closer look at the Boardman.


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## tom73 (9 Apr 2020)

Maybe worth a look Canyon just brought out this. 
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...oad-bike-market-with-new-enduraceon-al-453562


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## Pale Rider (9 Apr 2020)

MarkF said:


> Absolutely, if something is not aesthetically pleasing to my eyes then l won't like it, no matter how good it is. To me, the Pinnacle looked like a "yesterday" ebike at best and a DIY one at worst!
> 
> Yours is more like it & l agree with the power output comments, l will have a closer look at the Boardman.


Bear in mind the Fazua equipped and Ribble (ebikemotion) ebikes are 'light assist' which may, or may not, have enough grunt for your purpose.

A short test ride would tell you.


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## MarkF (9 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Bear in mind the Fazua equipped and Ribble (ebikemotion) ebikes are 'light assist' which may, or may not, have enough grunt for your purpose.
> 
> A short test ride would tell you.



Yes, I've looked at the weights though and if I go out via trails or the towpath for a long day ride day then I take my 10 year old hybrid, that weighs 15kg. Same as the Boardman hybrid and more than the Gain so I am getting the "light assist" without any weight penalty. I think the Gain may suit me more than the HD hybrids would, but it's just that very steep hill to work.............I do need a test ride.

However, I sent multiple emails to Chevin Cycles (Otley), Cycle Republic (Leeds) and All Terrain (Saltaire) last summer saying that I would like a test ride, I didn't get a single reply.


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## gzoom (9 Apr 2020)

^ The 'light assistance' provided is enough on my Boardman to make it almost as quick as my road bike, but without the aggressive aero, skinny tires, and rock solid frame.

Fazua is apparently updating the firmware of the motor/battery to give more assistance to make the bike perform closer to a Bosch motors bike.

What ever eBike you get make sure there is good manufacture support for the battery/motor/software. Fazua for example is clearly making updates to things as they develop their software, Bosch I suspect similar.

Opting for a cheaper battery/motor setup now may not offer you the same degree of future proofing. 

Having also owned EV since 2015, I can tell you from first hand the software side of electric motor/battery management and user interface is as important as stats on Wh and motor peak torque performance. 

£2k isn't a small sum to drop on a bike, get one which looks to have decent ongoing manufacture support and it'll last you much longer going into the future.


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## Mike_P (9 Apr 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> I think it was BB rear wheel drive. It was getting on for 7 years ago now so i can't quite remember!


Makes sense if it was a rear wheel drive, leave those for dead on hills when on my ebike.


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## richtea (9 Apr 2020)

If you want a hybrid, then the Boardman HYB 8.9E is a whisker over £2k* at the moment, with no suspension:
https://www.cyclerepublic.com/boardman-hyb-8-9e-mens-electric-hybrid-bike.html

You'll need to allow £28 for mudguards, and some extra if you want panniers - but the frame has all the necessary fixing holes.
My wife has one, and she definitely doesn't break out in a sweat (unlike me trying to keep up on an ordinary tourer - grr!).

At 6.5 miles each way you can have full power all the time if you really want to irrtitate other cyclists - and still have a lot of battery spare.


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## Stephenite (9 Apr 2020)

I see Ribble were mentioned upthread and they do indeed have this beauty https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/

A bit over the 2k you mentioned but you could sell your other bikes  to make up the diff


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## 13 rider (10 Apr 2020)

Stephenite said:


> I see Ribble were mentioned upthread and they do indeed have this beauty https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/
> 
> A bit over the 2k you mentioned but you could sell your other bikes  to make up the diff


On yesterday commute had a chat to a lady riding one of these I had seen her a few times and thought it was an E bike ,but it just looks with a normal road bike but the big rear hub gave it away 
She says to uses everyday and just rides as a normal bike on the commute no assistance as it only says around 12kg . She just uses the assistance on weekend rides to keep up with husband and help on the hills . 
More than ops budget but it could also replace his standard bike . The only downside ifhe commutes in all weathers it will have to be clip on mudguards


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## MarkF (12 Apr 2020)

The bike that most appeals to me, having spent hours looking, is the Giant Fast Road. This is the sort of bike I could spend all day out on, the commute could be taken care of by any old e-bike.

But the weight bothers me, the residual values also, both clolour schemes are well drab and the fact my budget would be blasted.


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## Pale Rider (13 Apr 2020)

The weight is what it is, most full assist ebikes are 20kg+, and there's no chance of that reducing anytime soon.

Batteries were big and heavy when they were invented, fast forward 200 years and they are still big and heavy, ditto motors.

There are a handful of carbon framed hardtail emtbs that have a full assist motor and a large battery which come in at under 20kg, but at a typical cost of £5k.

The bike you've chosen has Giant's branded version of the Yamaha motor.

Nothing wrong with that, but the Bosch motor is reckoned to offer smoother power delivery.

The secondhand ebike market is still immature, but ebikes depreciate swiftly just as a push bike does.

Some indication ebikes may depreciate quicker because buyers are suspicious of battery durability.

Thus a buyer might want to factor in the cost of a replacement battery when making a bid on a secondhand ebike.

In the case of the Giant that would be about £700 which is going to rip a huge lump out of the second hand value.

My view is money spent on any bike, electric or otherwise, is money spent, not invested.

Anything I get back for it after I've finished with it is a bonus.

If residual values are a concern, don't buy an ebike.


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## Mike_P (13 Apr 2020)

The Yahama on my Giant seems smooth enough. I did come across a web site which rated the Yahama as having better hill climbing performance that the Bosch. The one issue I do currently have is that the associated mobile app is refusing to upload ride data since it's last "update".


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## Phaeton (13 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> If residual values are a concern, don't buy an ebike.


Or any bike really


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## Bonefish Blues (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Or any bike mode of transport really


EFA😊


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## CXRAndy (13 Apr 2020)

Cheapest option, retrofit either a Bafang or Tongscheng TSD motor kit. They will fit most bikes that have a Threaded 68/73 mm bottom bracket. You can have a lot more versatility for far less outlay if you possess the donor bike already.


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## MarkF (13 Apr 2020)

I've only ever bought one new bike, that was £650 & 10 years ago, I still have it. All my other bikes and the umpteen that have passed through have all been maybe a year or two old and mint. I tend to buy Giant/Spesh/Trek/Dawes too as it makes it easier to move them on, I wouldn't be surprised if I haven't suffered any financial loss in the last decade with around 15/20 bikes coming & going. Residual value & the ease of moving bikes on, matters to me.

The Giant costs about £2800, one was on Ebay for £1000 less, a low mileage 2019 model, that's a major loss in less than 12 months . If it was local I'd have had a test ride and that is what I definitely need before I part with a big chunk of cash..


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## MarkF (13 Apr 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Cheapest option, retrofit either a Bafang or Tongscheng TSD motor kit. They will fit most bikes that have a Threaded 68/73 mm bottom bracket. You can have a lot more versatility for far less outlay if you possess the donor bike already.




Hmm, I have a Dawes Clubman that I bought from this forum for a tour this year, that's not going to happen now and it's just sat there.


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## Mike_P (13 Apr 2020)

I went down the retrofit route, after just over a year it stopped working, presumed it was the torque sensor, got hold of a replacement but no way could I get it to fit
The design had changed slightly but that did not look as if it would cause a problem but their was simply no way it would readily slide into the motor assembly so ended up putting the bike back to normal pedal power and bought the Giant.


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## Poppppy (24 Apr 2020)

Hi 


gzoom said:


> ^ The 'light assistance' provided is enough on my Boardman to make it almost as quick as my road bike, but without the aggressive aero, skinny tires, and rock solid frame.
> 
> Fazua is apparently updating the firmware of the motor/battery to give more assistance to make the bike perform closer to a Bosch motors bike.
> 
> ...


Hi after reading your comments I tjoughg you might be able to advise me please . I already have a carrera crosscity ebike foldable and wanted to upgrade to a more powerful ebike . ( incidentally I want bigger wheels and to be able to cycle further on a single charge ) . I am looking at the boardman hybrid 8.9 e ladies . But I am concerned that it is only the same power for hills .as it seems to be only about the same wattage . Or am I getting that wrong . Do I have to compare more than just wattage when comparing the power of bikes at getting up a hill. Thankyou for your help .
The alternative I thought would be the carrera crossfuse ladies ebike. It's so heavy though but wattage is near 500 so thought this would suit my desires better .which are more power and more range on a single charge than my old bike . Not concerned about beauty


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## Smudge (24 Apr 2020)

Poppppy said:


> Hi
> 
> Hi after reading your comments I tjoughg you might be able to advise me please . I already have a carrera crosscity ebike foldable and wanted to upgrade to a more powerful ebike . ( incidentally I want bigger wheels and to be able to cycle further on a single charge ) . I am looking at the boardman hybrid 8.9 e ladies . But I am concerned that it is only the same power for hills .as it seems to be only about the same wattage . Or am I getting that wrong . Do I have to compare more than just wattage when comparing the power of bikes at getting up a hill. Thankyou for your help .
> The alternative I thought would be the carrera crossfuse ladies ebike. It's so heavy though but wattage is near 500 so thought this would suit my desires better .which are more power and more range on a single charge than my old bike . Not concerned about beauty



Obviously depends how fit a rider you are and how much power you can put in yourself. But hill climbing is all about torque and you really want crank drive motor for decent torque. Most ebikes with CD will give the torque figures, anything from 40nm to 90nm. The steeper the hills you ride, the bigger the torque you will need.


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## gzoom (25 Apr 2020)

Poppppy said:


> I am looking at the boardman hybrid 8.9 e ladies . But I am concerned that it is only the same power for hills .as it seems to be only about the same wattage .



I think it depends on what you are looking for. I was/am after something to help take the edge off peak HR on climbs/head wind, so that I can get to work not all that sweaty.

The Fazua system is expensive compared to many others, you are paying for a compact design, natural pedal feel, and low weights rather than high assitance.

Am very happy with how the system works for me, but my average speed on my commute is 16mph+, so I actually use the motor/assistance very sparingly.

If you just want a more powerful/assisted eBike experience I don't think the Fazua system is worth the extra money over a similar spec motor.


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## Poppppy (25 Apr 2020)

gzoom said:


> I think it depends on what you are looking for. I was/am after something to help take the edge off peak HR on climbs/head wind, so that I can get to work not all that sweaty.
> 
> The Fazua system is expensive compared to many others, you are paying for a compact design, natural pedal feel, and low weights rather than high assitance.
> 
> ...


Thankyou so much for that . I am assuming then that you have the boardman bike . I am thinking then I would be better getting the carrera crossfuse as it is 400wh and a Bosch system it is 24 kg weight though. But someone said that is negligible compared to the persons weight .


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## Phaeton (25 Apr 2020)

I'm biased as I have 2 Cube bikes, have a look at their range


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'm biased as I have 2 Cube bikes, have a look at their range


Thank you where do they sell them and what do you like about them . I want 50 miles out of one battery and power for the steepest hill


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## Pale Rider (26 Apr 2020)

Cubes are generally some of the best value Bosch bikes.

Tredz is one retailer, there are others.

They have a selection of 500wh Cubes.

You keep on asking the same question, but your requirement is power hungry and there is no magic wand for that.

For your proposed use you want a bike with the biggest 625wh battery which are less common, which equals more money, or a dual battery bike which is more common but still lots of money.

Riese and Muller offer several bikes with the option of a dual battery.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/cube-electric-bikes/xsrt/priceasc

https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/


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## gzoom (26 Apr 2020)

Poppppy said:


> Thank you where do they sell them and what do you like about them . I want 50 miles out of one battery and power for the steepest hill



As others have mentioned what you are after almost sounds like a moped and not bike. Woosh bikes gives you some theoretical numbers on speed up a hill on a large motor, but even they say take 10% off that figure if there is any wind.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts

Also are you actually doing any 50 mile roads currently with steep hill? Be realistic about how/what you want the bike to do.


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## Mike_P (26 Apr 2020)

Poppppy said:


> Thank you where do they sell them and what do you like about them . I want 50 miles out of one battery and power for the steepest hill


IME the only way to possibly achieve that is to have the assist usually switched off on the level and down grades


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

I bought my Cube Attention non Ebike from James Cycles in Rotherham & bought my Cube Acid from Leisure Wheels in Hemel Hempstead as they were offering the biggest discount at the time, there is no information in your profile as to where you are so no idea if either is helpful or useful to you.

As to whether you can get 50 miles at full chat on one TBH no idea, I mostly ride on Eco, only switching to any of the higher settings if I feel necessary with a mixture of riding I can get 30 miles on 1 bar, it has 4 bars but whether they are all equal is another matter. Looking at your requirements I would suggest you get a Bosch motored crank drive with a 500 battery & then buy a 2nd battery, however I doubt you will get that in budget not new anyway.


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## jowwy (26 Apr 2020)

I got 55 miles out of my cube acid on 500wh battery with 2 blocks left, ridden mostly in tour mode


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Cubes are generally some of the best value Bosch bikes.
> 
> Tredz is one retailer, there are others.
> 
> ...


Thank you for helping me


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

gzoom said:


> As others have mentioned what you are after almost sounds like a moped and not bike. Woosh bikes gives you some theoretical numbers on speed up a hill on a large motor, but even they say take 10% off that figure if there is any wind.
> 
> https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts
> 
> Also are you actually doing any 50 mile roads currently with steep hill? Be realistic about how/what you want the bike to do.


Thank you for your help. I know what you mean about looking at what I want and being realistic . Everything you all tell me is helping though


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> IME the only way to possibly achieve that is to have the assist usually switched off on the level and down grades


Thank you for your advice . It all helps


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

jowwy said:


> I got 55 miles out of my cube acid on 500wh battery with 2 blocks left, ridden mostly in tour mode


Thank you for your help . I will look at cube acid


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## Poppppy (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I bought my Cube Attention non Ebike from James Cycles in Rotherham & bought my Cube Acid from Leisure Wheels in Hemel Hempstead as they were offering the biggest discount at the time, there is no information in your profile as to where you are so no idea if either is helpful or useful to you.
> 
> As to whether you can get 50 miles at full chat on one TBH no idea, I mostly ride on Eco, only switching to any of the higher settings if I feel necessary with a mixture of riding I can get 30 miles on 1 bar, it has 4 bars but whether they are all equal is another matter. Looking at your requirements I would suggest you get a Bosch motored crank drive with a 500 battery & then buy a 2nd battery, however I doubt you will get that in budget not new anyway.


Thank you this really helps . Lots to think about


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## jann71 (26 Apr 2020)

How big are the hills are you thinking about and how steep?


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## Poppppy (27 Apr 2020)

jann71 said:


> How big are the hills are you thinking about and how steep?


About 100 yards each at most and I am not sure how to explain the inclines . But like cycling in Wales. 🤣


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## CXRAndy (27 Apr 2020)

The wife and I went for a ride a couple of days ago. I was testing my new Alfine hub gearing so selected a hilly-ish route. She absolutely destroyed me on the hills without breaking sweat. We ended up doing 25 miles, of which I was on the rack for the first 10. She has a shopper bike and TSDZ2 crank motor kit with a 750Wh battery pack.


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## OllyB (3 May 2020)

I have a Cannondale Synapse Neo and can so recommend it, the battery seems to last for ages, having said that I don't tend to ride with it on all the time, just really for hills, and then I have usually used the lowest setting, I think the highest setting must be rocket fuelled! The upside is that the bike takes 32c tyres, and I have a rack and mudguards fitted, plus it is excellent to ride without the motor on! I was lucky and managed to bag one on sale from Evans, and it was at the time their lowest spec (tiagra?) but I have had it for six months now and have never regretted it.


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## Mike Bike (11 May 2020)

Gents, new to the forum and after advice please. I am in agreement around aesthetics and also want to work a little when out on the bike. Weight is also important as it will go on the back of a VW camper on the rack. (Quite high ). So I feel the Boardman 8.9 E Hybrid is for me. Does that make sense? But?? 
Is there provision for a side stand? Or what do you do? 
Will it be OK on a bike rack in the rain for say 4 days as I travel? (Will the electrics be safe?) 
Is the gearing OK when not on battery which I think I will be for long periods?
I have a non e Treck DS3 Hybrid and feel that the forks with lockout are good. Does the Boardman suffer for not having this feature? Will I miss it? I do a lot of gravel type tracks as well as road?
Does the Boardman not have fast release wheels? Issue?

Any advice appreciated.
Thanks


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## richtea (11 May 2020)

I can help with a few:
> Weight is also important as it will go on the back of a VW camper on the rack
Take the battery+motor unit off first, and pop it in the van. That's 3-4 Kg saved.

> Will it be OK on a bike rack in the rain for say 4 days as I travel? (Will the electrics be safe?)
Ah. If you take the battery off and then drive in spray, water will get into the battery compartment. You'll need to dry the compartment out (kitchen roll or similar would do). The majority of the water will drain away, and the connector is on the top edge of the compartment, by design - see pic 1 where I tipped about 100ml into it. I dabbed out the small pool that remained easily. But maybe this isn't the best approach long term.

The alternative is the leave the battery in, which gives less holes for water to get in. The good news is that battery+motor removable unit has a small drain hole to allow any water getting in to exit again:
https://fazua.com/en/magazine/bad-weather-check/?from=inside-fazua

One last angle, probably the smartest one, is to buy a 'dummy' battery cover - it's replaces the battery+motor, and is like an empty shell. About £60-70:
https://fazua.com/en/drive-system/evation/downtube-cover/

> Does the Boardman not have fast release wheels? Issue?
An allen key is needed for the front spindle only (See pic 2). Not a big issue, since it can go into a small under-saddle tool bag easily. Rear is quick release.


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## Mike Bike (11 May 2020)

richtea said:


> I can help with a few:
> > Weight is also important as it will go on the back of a VW camper on the rack
> Take the battery+motor unit off first, and pop it in the van. That's 3-4 Kg saved.
> 
> ...


Richtea, many thanks for taking the trouble to help me. Much appreciated and interesting...

Does the Boardman have the key lock for the battery? Nervous I may loose the battery from the back of the VW as I have read where many people have lost it out riding??

Also do you use a kickstand?

Many thanks again.


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## richtea (11 May 2020)

> Does the Boardman have the key lock for the battery? Nervous I may loose the battery from the back of the VW as I have read where many people have lost it out riding??

I'd say that's pretty unlikely as long as you do some practice fittings. Over a carpet or grass! Once you've had a few plays it's obvious when the battery is in, it's a very positive click - just squeeze the battery into the frame hard.

The key works well, once you've experimented. It is:
- unlocked = clockwise, until the key is vertical (perpendicular to the ground, not the frame), and press the release button hard WHILST HOLDING ONTO THE BATTERY
- locked = anticlockwise, until the key is vertical again, and remove key

> Also do you use a kickstand?

I don't - trees/walls/grass will do!
I think kickstands normally fit with a plate + bolt just behind the crank between the crank and mudguard bridge.
Here's the bottom of the Boardman crank (pic). There's no mudguard bridge, so I'd say there isn't room for a plate, especially if you want mudguards. You'll probably need this sort of kickstand instead (I've never tried one):
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/cube-kickstand-universal/


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## Mike_P (11 May 2020)

Some kickstands fit on the chain and seat stays


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## MarkF (11 May 2020)

I've put it all on the back burner. 

I think I am of an age/fitness where I want one but don't actually need one, it's only the sweaty 20 min climb to work that bothers me, hardly a solid reason to spend £k's on yet another bicycle. Also, the choice sub £2k was quite dispiriting, so many were practically identical and not really what I wanted being fat tyred and with suspension. I think I will age a bit and at the right time sell my motorbike and buy an e-bike at double my orginial budget.


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## gzoom (12 May 2020)

Mike Bike said:


> Is the gearing OK when not on battery which I think I will be for long periods?
> 
> I have a non e Treck DS3 Hybrid and feel that the forks with lockout are good. Does the Boardman suffer for not having this feature? Will I miss it? I do a lot of gravel type tracks as well as road?



Gearing is fine even without battery power for 10% hills, just. 14% and it's a real struggle even with battery, more than that and you will be walking!!

Most of the time on the flat you wouldn't be using the battery anyways, 17mph is easy to maintain on the bike, and the motor cuts out at 15.5mph.

As for suspension I cannot comment, I find the bike very comfy and occasional take it on gravel path. Clearly suspension will make it more comfy, but at 16kg its heavy enough already!!


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## Blue Hills (19 May 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Ebikes without suspension are rare,



Why is that?
I was mooching round a shop recently and it does appear to be the case.
I hate unnecessary suspension.
This will change in time surely as the market expands?


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## Blue Hills (19 May 2020)

MarkF said:


> I've put it all on the back burner.
> 
> I think I am of an age/fitness where I want one but don't actually need one, it's only the sweaty 20 min climb to work that bothers me, hardly a solid reason to spend £k's on yet another bicycle. Also, the choice sub £2k was quite dispiriting, so many were practically identical and not really what I wanted being fat tyred and with suspension. I think I will age a bit and at the right time sell my motorbike and buy an e-bike at double my orginial budget.


good call I think. Strikes me as a market with a lot of development/maturing to do.
I can see lots being sold in london post lockdown for longer commutes.
And then prices will surely fall/bang per buck increase.


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## Phaeton (19 May 2020)

gzoom said:


> Gearing is fine even without battery power for 10% hills, just. 14% and it's a real struggle even with battery, more than that and you will be walking!!


What kind of e-bike are you referring to? Mine will breeze up 20% quite easily


gzoom said:


> Most of the time on the flat you wouldn't be using the battery anyways, 17mph is easy to maintain on the bike, and the motor cuts out at 15.5mph.


Is it, again what type of bike are you referring to, I for one could not keep a 17mph average up, in fact looking on my Swinney.net my best hour back when I was road biking it's only 16.8mph


Blue Hills said:


> Why is that?
> I was mooching round a shop recently and it does appear to be the case.
> I hate unnecessary suspension.
> This will change in time surely as the market expands?


Marketing I suspect.


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## Blue Hills (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Marketing I suspect.



Thanks - confirms to me that it's an immature market.
Am pretty confident things will improve.


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## Phaeton (19 May 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Thanks - confirms to me that it's an immature market.
> Am pretty confident things will improve.


Currently there seems to be 3 branches of e-bikes, Road without suspension, MTB with suspension & Chinese utility bikes with front suspension.


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## Blue Hills (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Currently there seems to be 3 branches of e-bikes, Road without suspension, MTB with suspension & Chinese utility bikes with front suspension.


By road i assume you mean full on racing sports bikes?
If so, definitely best i sit (,or rather pedal) it out.


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## Smudge (19 May 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Why is that?
> I was mooching round a shop recently and it does appear to be the case.
> I hate unnecessary suspension.
> This will change in time surely as the market expands?



A few months ago i road tested two hybrid type ebikes, both with rigid forks. The Giant Fastroad and the Boardman HYB, but they didn't fit me right, i'm sure there are others out there. But i'm not going to spend £2K + on an ebike without test riding it first.
Whereas i can find plenty of rigid fork unassisted hybrids to fit me perfectly, its not the case with ebikes, because there just isn't the amount of choice in them compared to unassisted bikes.


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## MarkF (19 May 2020)

Smudge said:


> A few months ago i road tested two hybrid type ebikes, both with rigid forks. The Giant Fastroad and the Boardman HYB, but they didn't fit me right, i'm sure there are others out there. But i'm not going to spend £2K + on an ebike without test riding it first.
> Whereas i can find plenty of rigid fork unassisted hybrids to fit me perfectly, its not the case with ebikes, because there just isn't the amount of choice in them compared to unassisted bikes.



It's really difficult to get test ride, shops didn't even reply to emails and calls resulted in offers of car park rides, what good is that to me? Out of all of them I gave serious interest to just 2, the Orbea Gain and the Giant Fastroad, but their power is not comparable, the prices neither & without a ride......I am sure the Giant is great fun though and as I said before, I can afford to buy one but I can't afford to take a £1k hit if it didn't suit.


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## Smudge (19 May 2020)

MarkF said:


> It's really difficult to get test ride, shops didn't even reply to emails and calls resulted in offers of car park rides, what good is that to me? Out of all of them I gave serious interest to just 2, the Orbea Gain and the Giant Fastroad, but their power is not comparable, the prices neither & without a ride......I am sure the Giant is great fun though and as I said before, I can afford to buy one but I can't afford to take a £1k hit if it didn't suit.



The problems i had with the Fastroad, was that i couldn't get the bars high enough (I like the bars just a tad higher than the seat) and it was a harsh ride. There also wasn't enough clearance for wider tyres to help with the harsh ride. The Orbea i wasn't interested in because its only a 40nm torque hub motor.
So i bought the Explore E+2 and begrudgingly accepting having suss forks. I have been really happy with it though.
I also have a Raleigh Pioneer E with rigid steel forks. This ebike fits me as well as any unassisted hybrid i've owned, its a really smooth and comfortable ride and will take up to 45 wide tyres, even with mudguards. But its a hub motor ebike and has nowhere near the torque or the spec of the Explore. But it serves its purpose for shopping and general chores.


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## gzoom (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> What kind of e-bike are you referring to? Mine will breeze up 20% quite easily
> 
> Is it, again what type of bike are you referring to, I for one could not keep a 17mph average up, in fact looking on my Swinney.net my best hour back when I was road biking it's only 16.8mph



My Boardman hyb E with Fazua motor will not get up a 20% incline easily, infact I don't think I've ever cycled or even walked up a 20% incline!! 16% is the max I've got up.

17mph on the flat is slow on a road bike, there is no point pretending otherwise. I can sit at 18-20mph all day long on the flat (-1% to 1%) with road bike, but the same amount of effort on my Boardman E bike barely breaks 15mph, I suspect the lack of aero and the e assist cutting off at 15 mph has something to do with that!


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## sheddy (19 May 2020)

I guess front wheel drive ebikes are a real hazard on gravel.
Do we have any anecdotes to share ?


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## Phaeton (19 May 2020)

gzoom said:


> My Boardman hyb E with Fazua motor will not get up a 20% incline easily, infact I don't think I've ever cycled or even walked up a 20% incline!! 16% is the max I've got up.


I ride up them on my Cube in the woods some although short are steeper than that I'm sure.



gzoom said:


> 17mph on the flat is slow on a road bike, there is no point pretending otherwise. I can sit at 18-20mph all day long on the flat (-1% to 1%) with road bike,


I am clearly slow then, although I no longer ride road bikes, the best I have ever managed is 16.2 for an hour record.


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## gzoom (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I am clearly slow then, although I no longer ride road bikes, the best I have ever managed is 16.2 for an hour record.
> 
> View attachment 523345



Thats not quick for road cycling. I bettered that this weekend doing a training ride taking in some climbs, and am still about 50Watts short of my 'normal' pre kid fitness.


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## Smudge (19 May 2020)

sheddy said:


> I guess front wheel drive ebikes are a real hazard on gravel.
> Do we have any anecdotes to share ?



I've had two ebikes with front hub motor and never had front wheel spin on any surface. I would only imagine it to be an issue if you had a real upright sit and beg riding position with the bars way higher than the seat, so all your weight is on the back wheel.


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## Phaeton (19 May 2020)

gzoom said:


> Thats not quick for road cycling. I bettered that this weekend doing a training ride taking in some climbs, and am still about 50Watts short of my 'normal' pre kid fitness.
> 
> View attachment 523351


Do you want a medal?


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## gzoom (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Do you want a medal?



Why? For been average and below my normal fitness?

Am an average cyclist, no where near my normal fitness. Most road cyclists will be at 200Watts when fit, the guys who do armature racing near 300Watts, and the Pro not far off 400Watts.

You made a comment about how you thought 16mph was 'quick' for road cycling, it's not. Here an example, slight drag up, a good 30 seconds off my PB but still doing over 17mph, and even my PB is the bottom 30% of all times. So you can see 16mph average on a road bike really is not fast at all by most peoples standards.






There is no need to get so defensive/aggressive.


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## Phaeton (19 May 2020)

gzoom said:


> There is no need to get so defensive/aggressive.


Maybe you ought to look at yourself before making comments like that, anyway have a good life.


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## gzoom (19 May 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Maybe you ought to look at yourself before making comments like that, anyway have a good life.



For point out facts? We are both slow road cyclists, 60%+ people on Strava are faster than both of us, what's wrong with that fact?


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## CXRAndy (19 May 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Some kickstands fit on the chain and seat stays



My wife's homemade Ebike has a centre stand bracket. I fitted a double leg version, which can take upto 80kg (design for kids extra seat) I placed 3mm rubber between the mating surfaces and Loctite the bolt. So far its been ideal. My wife used to lay her bike down which I didn't like with all the weight of the battery on small bottle bosses


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## CXRAndy (19 May 2020)

16-17 mph is fair average pace for most riders non racing types. 

My solo speeds this year are about 14 mph, with a heavy touring bike. 

My fastest rides from a couple of years ago were 21mph for 80 miles in a competitive sportive. 

I dont think I'll attain my fastest speed as my desire to keep weight down and train really hard is not there. I'd hoped to do some UK touring this year but that's unlikely to happen


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## richtea (21 May 2020)

> By road i assume you mean full on racing sports bikes? 

There are some gravel bikes & touring bikes, which I'd consider the acceptable face of a road bike, i.e. an adaptable bike with mudguard and pannier mounting points + room for large tyres if needed. But you're right - they're still rare. Maybe 5 or 6 to choose from at the moment, tops.


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## dodgy (21 May 2020)

sheddy said:


> I guess front wheel drive ebikes are a real hazard on gravel.
> Do we have any anecdotes to share ?



I have a Gocycle GX (2 wheel drive) and yes, they can be a little twitchy if climbing on gravel. But then again, that's not their natural habitat. Ordinarily the 2 wheel drive is a benefit rather than a hindrance.


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