# Cassette on new bikes.



## gavroche (6 Feb 2019)

Why do they all come with 11x28 cassette? It is ok if you are a good climber or young or very fit or live in a flat area. In my case, 12x32 is a minimum as Wales is not flat, I am not young, a bad climber and not as fit as I would like to be. All my present bikes are 32 and one even 34 cassettes.


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## HLaB (7 Feb 2019)

I've never had a bike come with a 11-28 although its my preferred gearing so I usually change for that. The road bikes Ive had have come with an 10 or 11 - 23 or 25 and the mtb oriented hybrid I had came with an 11 - 34. I guess 11-28 is the middle ground and most sellable/popular.


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## nickyboy (7 Feb 2019)

It gets worse...I bought a bike from Decathlon. Decent road bike. Presumably standard specced for UK.

Lowest gear was 34-25. I live in the Peak District. It was tough going. I did make it up Winnats pass with that gearing for a bet but it wasn't pretty


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## Racing roadkill (7 Feb 2019)

All of my road bikes came with 11-28 cassettes, except for a Boardman Pro Carbon I bought in 2014, which came with an 11-25. The chainsets are all semi compact as well, except the Boardman, which has a Compact. I think the bike manufacturers have a certain idea of the types of riders they are expecting to be parting with their hard earned, for particular bikes, and spec them accordingly. It’s no massive problem to swap a cassette for one with a bigger largest sprocket, and the manufacturers know this, so they give the people the majority of whom are spending on the bikes, what they want by speccing them with something like an 11-28 cassette.


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## lazyfatgit (7 Feb 2019)

11-28 is probably a fair compromise for an average rider. I've been able to negotiate a swap with bike shop on my last 3 bikes. Either cassette, stem or seatpost for no or little cost.


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## I like Skol (7 Feb 2019)

You are looking at this the wrong way!

11-28 is a good cassette with a decent range for most riding. Where people and manufacturers get it wrong is pairing it with an unsuitable chainset.


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## gbb (7 Feb 2019)

I had the same but in reverse....bikes with compact chainsets...on the edge of the Fens 

Manufacturers can't cover every terrain option, you buy what's there / available and then change what's necessary.


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## Moodyman (7 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> 11-28 is a good cassette with a decent range for most riding. Where people and manufacturers get it wrong is pairing it with an unsuitable chainset.



Or unsuitable rider.


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## vickster (7 Feb 2019)

They don’t if you spec your own new bike from scratch


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## Slow But Determined (7 Feb 2019)

Cos it looks nicer with a short cage, if you go up to a 32 you invariably have to swop out to a long cage.


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## Shortandcrisp (7 Feb 2019)

Went to the Peak District for The Tour de France with a few other people from a local cycling club. 
The plan was to ride some of the tour routes with a few additional hills!
Living in Norfolk I turned up on a bike with a compact chain set and an 11 or 12-25 cassette. What a horror show that turned out to be!


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## dave r (7 Feb 2019)

I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.


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## Poacher (7 Feb 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.


You had a front clanger? You must have been well off! I dreamt of having 10 gears instead of 5.

Cue "You were lucky, we had to eat COLD gravel" response.


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## dave r (7 Feb 2019)

Poacher said:


> You had a front clanger? You must have been well off! I dreamt of having 10 gears instead of 5.
> 
> Cue "You were lucky, we had to eat COLD gravel" response.


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## Sharky (7 Feb 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.


…. and I managed with a 14-18 with a 52/42! One winter I had an 18-20 block made up and thought it was "cheating" as I dropped my club mates on the hills.


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## raleighnut (7 Feb 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.


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## Levo-Lon (7 Feb 2019)

11-42 rocks with a 36-26 up front.

I had to go 11-32 as I just can't get up hills I'm a Fenner.
I have a 44-34 on the Boardman, I like that


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## Chris S (7 Feb 2019)

I've got a 3-speed hub on mine which gives 45, 60 and 80 inch gears. These are just right for Birmingham. I suspect most bikes come with a 11x28 cassette because it's just right for most places.


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## Globalti (7 Feb 2019)

Aren't most bikes built for American born-again cyclists living in California? That would explain why they are so badly sealed against water and the finish deteriorates so fast in wet conditions.


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## Smokin Joe (7 Feb 2019)

Sharky said:


> …. and I managed with a 14-18 with a 52/42! One winter I had an 18-20 block made up and thought it was "cheating" as I dropped my club mates on the hills.


I rode the early season Croydon Hardriders 25 with a 48 chainring and 14-18 back in 1970.

That was NOT a good idea, as anyone who knows Kent will tell you.


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## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Mine has a motor instead


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## CXRAndy (7 Feb 2019)

My first road bike as an adult and more unfit was 50/34 and 11-32. It allowed me to climb 10% hills, but whilst being on the ragged edge of blowing up.

Now i use a triple crank 48/36/26 mated to either 11-32 or 11-40 .Im much fitter these days and really enjoy climbing mountains. They are still tough, but I dictate the pace/cadence not the gradient.
Says 90+kg 50+rider


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## mgs315 (7 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> I rode the early season Croydon Hardriders 25 with a 48 chainring and 14-18 back in 1970.
> 
> That was NOT a good idea, as anyone who knows Kent will tell you.



Wow, yeah sod that. I’m glad I’ve got a 50/34 11-32 available on some of those gradients.


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## rogerzilla (7 Feb 2019)

In the early 90s, you'd have bern laughed at for having anything bigger than 21T on a racing bike. We've gone soft.


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## mikeymustard (7 Feb 2019)

Poacher said:


> You had a front clanger? You must have been well off! I dreamt of having 10 gears instead of 5.
> 
> Cue "You were lucky, we had to eat COLD gravel" response.


We all nagged our parents to buy us a 10 speed, then treated the bikes so badly that the front seized anyway!


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## raleighnut (7 Feb 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> In the early 90s, you'd have bern laughed at for having anything bigger than 21T on a racing bike. We've gone soft.


I remember cycling to work back then when MTBs had just come out, I used to pass this guy most mornings 'twiddling' away as I cruised past at 25-30Mph (depending on the wind) and thinking ""

Now I look at the Carlton (with a 13-23 and 42-52) and think "Gawd I used to ride that everywhere"


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## fossyant (7 Feb 2019)

Pah, what happened to 42 x 21 - we must have been mad.


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## ColinJ (7 Feb 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> In the early 90s, you'd have bern laughed at for having anything bigger than 21T on a racing bike. We've gone soft.


The Milk Race went up local climb 'Mytholm Steeps' once in the 1980s. I got chatting to a local cyclist who had been standing on the steepest section (see my photos below) and he said that spectators were having to catch the cyclists as they toppled sideways, their feet still strapped onto their pedals. They certainly weren't climbing well on _their _21s - ha ha!


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## derrick (7 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> You are looking at this the wrong way!
> 
> 11-28 is a good cassette with a decent range for most riding. Where people and manufacturers get it wrong is pairing it with an unsuitable chainset.


Yes you need to be using a 36/ 52 chain rings.


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## I like Skol (7 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> Yes you need to be using a 36/ 52 chain rings.


For anyone that struggles or doesn't enjoy a hard climb I would always suggest something like 28/38/48 as the perfect chainset. Certainly worked well on my hybrid coupled to an 11-26 cassette, and I even enjoy hill climbing (probably because I try to choose gearing suitable for the Pennine hills?).


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## derrick (7 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> For anyone that struggles or doesn't enjoy a hard climb I would always suggest something like 28/38/48 as the perfect chainset. Certainly worked well on my hybrid coupled to an 11-26 cassette, and I even enjoy hill climbing (probably because I try to choose gearing suitable for the Pennine hills?).


I would imagine you would have to have a really high cadence to get a good top end with that setup.


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## Oldfentiger (7 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> I would imagine you would have to have a really high cadence to get a good top end with that setup.


Around here, I’m more likely to be feathering the brakes on descents rather than pedalling. It’s either up or down with no flat between. For this reason I’m not bothered about having particularly high gears.


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## rogerzilla (7 Feb 2019)

Go and ride fixed for a year, then you'll be glad of 42 x 21!

I once hauled myself up to Princetown on 42 x 21 just to let rip down the Tavistock road. Got up to 56mph and caught a Land Rover so had to brake . I'd hoped for 72mph, which allegedly was the St Budeaux CC record.


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## I like Skol (7 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> I would imagine you would have to have a really high cadence to get a good top end with that setup.


Could hit 50mph quite regularly without trying too hard. I hit the real high speeds on my 50 or 52 chainring bikes, but maybe that's because they have drop handlebars and are more aero?


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## Bazzer (7 Feb 2019)

ColinJ said:


> The Milk Race went up local climb 'Mytholm Steeps' once in the 1980s. I got chatting to a local cyclist who had been standing on the steepest section (see my photos below) and he said that spectators were having to catch the cyclists as they toppled sideways, their feet still strapped onto their pedals. They certainly weren't climbing well on _their _21s - ha ha!
> 
> View attachment 451279
> 
> ...



That second picture looks similar to the bottom of Shaw Wood Road. IIRC another lung burner


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## ColinJ (7 Feb 2019)

Bazzer said:


> That second picture looks similar to the bottom of Shaw Wood Road. IIRC another lung burner


Oh, it's about 50% worse than that! 

In fact, it would be interesting to compare them. I'll get into action with my mapping and graphics software ...

Hmm - there is something interesting going on which I hadn't noticed before... The elevation data on my OS maps seems to be offset laterally by a significant distance! The profiles are showing the steepest bits to be just before the ACTUAL steepest bits. I'll investigate that later, but this is roughly a comparison between Shaw Rd and Church Lane/Mytholm Steeps ...







Anyway ... neither would be fun on 42/21!


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## Reynard (7 Feb 2019)

11-30 with a 46 / 34 on mine. Fine for fen roads, but show me a hill and I'm ready to throw my bike into the hedge. 

Impending new arrival has 11-34 with a 44 / 32 / 22 - far better for when I get madcap ideas involving bits of road that go up.


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## derrick (7 Feb 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> Go and ride fixed for a year, then you'll be glad of 42 x 21!
> 
> I once hauled myself up to Princetown on 42 x 21 just to let rip down the Tavistock road. Got up to 56mph and caught a Land Rover so had to brake . I'd hoped for 72mph, which allegedly was the St Budeaux CC record.


Have i got this right?


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Feb 2019)

gavroche said:


> Why do they all come with 11x28 cassette? It is ok if you are a good climber or young or very fit or live in a flat area. In my case, 12x32 is a minimum as Wales is not flat, I am not young, a bad climber and not as fit as I would like to be. All my present bikes are 32 and one even 34 cassettes.



Ask for it to be fitted with a 12-32 cassette when you buy it. No extra cost usually.


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## NorthernDave (7 Feb 2019)

The Giant came with a slightly more hill friendly 11-32 and a 50/34 up front.

The Boardman Pro Carbon is a sportier set up with 11-28 and 52/36.
I've had that within a hairs breadth of 50mph on a couple of occasions. I'll get there one day...


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## ColinJ (7 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> For anyone that struggles or doesn't enjoy a hard climb I would always suggest something like 28/38/48 as the perfect chainset. Certainly worked well on my hybrid coupled to an 11-26 cassette, and I even enjoy hill climbing (probably because I try to choose gearing suitable for the Pennine hills?).


I changed my CAAD 5 from a 53/39, 13-29 to a 48/36/28, 12-30 which is a LOT nicer on the kind of vicious hills I mentioned earlier.


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## tyred (7 Feb 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.



I have one such steed sitting in my hallway. I intend to ride it this summer once I've given it some TLC.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Feb 2019)

dave r said:


> I'm old enough to remember when most bikes came with 14-24 five speeds block, usually paired with a 52-42 up front.



My drop-bar Dawes has 52/42 and a 14-24 freewheel, although it has the luxury of six speeds on the back not five. It's not even that ancient either, only mid-late 1980's! The gearing is a bit too "manly" though, I'm going to be a wimp and fit a 14-28 one.


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## the_mikey (7 Feb 2019)

gavroche said:


> Why do they all come with 11x28 cassette? It is ok if you are a good climber or young or very fit or live in a flat area. In my case, 12x32 is a minimum as Wales is not flat, I am not young, a bad climber and not as fit as I would like to be. All my present bikes are 32 and one even 34 cassettes.



I remember a time no so long ago when 11-25 was the default...


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## DCBassman (7 Feb 2019)

When I first got the Scott, it had 12-25 8-speed on the rear and 52-42-30 up front. Still has the same chainset, but 11-34 on the back. But the one that gets me up hills is the old Trek 800, with 48-38-28 and the same 11-34 cassette. Despite it being 10lb heavier.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Feb 2019)

Lots of chat about the merits of the largest sprocket having x teeth but none about the relative waste of a sprocket by having a smallest 11t when 12t will do for mortals.
Have a play with this:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...1,24,27&UF=2135&TF=100&SL=2.6&UN=KMH&DV=teeth


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## I like Skol (7 Feb 2019)

I like my 11T

Despite regular claims on this forum that an 11T sprocket is a waste I find it a useful and often used gear.


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## derrick (7 Feb 2019)

Yes i would not be without the eleven tooth. Most people in our club run 11-28 or 11-30.


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## slowmotion (8 Feb 2019)

I've gone to the Spa Cycles website shortly after buying both my road bikes. They have a fantastic selection of chainrings.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s0p0/Parts-and-Accessories
I also shop around for different cassettes , and mainly ignore the "Tooth Rules" about combinations that are "allowed". I'm still absolute rubbish on hills but, on a good day, I might get to the top without stopping. It's not a pretty sight, but I really hate walking.


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## nickyboy (8 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I like my 11T
> 
> Despite regular claims on this forum that an 11T sprocket is a waste I find it a useful and often used gear.


Me too. I use it far more than the 12T next door
Basically, down a decent hill, if I want to keep pedalling, it's 52/11


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## rogerzilla (8 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> Have i got this right?
> View attachment 451313



Well, I changed to 52 x 13 for the downhill, but I spun that out well before hitting Vmax.


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## ColinJ (8 Feb 2019)

I can get to 35 mph in my 48/12 top gear. Any faster than that, I just stop pedalling, tuck my elbows in, and get my chin as close as possible to the handlebar stem. I can get to 55 mph freewheeling down some of the local descents and I don't really want to go much faster than that on a bicycle!


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## I like Skol (8 Feb 2019)

Max speed of 45.6mph today coming down The Tumble with 50/11 on a windy day! 

I could have pedalled a bit more but decided it was more sensible to stop trying and concentrate on staying on the road....


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## SpokeyDokey (10 Feb 2019)

Not bothered how small the small cog is.

My downhill technique embraces a very low calorie method of rewarding myself for toiling up the uphill.


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## Reynard (10 Feb 2019)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Not bothered how small the small cog is.
> 
> My downhill technique embraces a very low calorie method of rewarding myself for toiling up the uphill.



In other words: "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!"



Yes, I have been known to employ that method myself.


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## DCBassman (10 Feb 2019)

Reynard said:


> In other words: "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have been known to employ that method myself.


As far as I am concerned, there is no other! Pedalling downhill? Weird...


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## Reynard (10 Feb 2019)

DCBassman said:


> As far as I am concerned, there is no other! Pedalling downhill? Weird...



Unless you're being chased by a fire breathing dragon or something...


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## DCBassman (10 Feb 2019)

Reynard said:


> Unless you're being chased by a fire breathing dragon or something...


Ah, emergencies don't count!


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## fossyant (10 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Max speed of 45.6mph today coming down The Tumble with 50/11 on a windy day!
> 
> I could have pedalled a bit more but decided it was more sensible to stop trying and concentrate on staying on the road....



Pah, 60 mph on my 1989 steel bike (OK the Posh one) - many years ago. You are better off not pedalling and going aero and relaxing after about 40. 

I could do 40 every ride locally down 'Otterspool' - far more efficient tucking in. 

PS old and broken now....


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## ColinJ (10 Feb 2019)

Reynard said:


> Unless you're being chased by a fire breathing dragon or something...


Or _The Hound of the Baskervilles!_


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## HLaB (10 Feb 2019)

DCBassman said:


> As far as I am concerned, there is no other! Pedalling downhill? Weird...


No choice yesterday, hills I usually free wheel down close to 30 mph I was having to pedal down hard at 18mph


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## DCBassman (10 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> No choice yesterday, hills I usually free wheel down close to 30 mph I was having to pedal down hard at 18mph


Yup, been a tad breezy...


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## Hugh Manatee (12 Feb 2019)

As an elderly fat man, 12-23 is what I use around here:







It isn't that clean now!


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## I like Skol (12 Feb 2019)

I guess the people that don't like an 11T small sprocket don't live somewhere particularly hilly?


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## Smokin Joe (12 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I guess the people that don't like an 11T small sprocket don't live somewhere particularly hilly?


I don't like an 11t because I do live somewhere hilly. I'd prefer a 12 or even a 13 to either close up the ratios or give an extra large cog on the cassette.

48x12 is easily enough if you are not racing, descents are there to rest your legs and recover energy.


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## nickyboy (12 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I guess the people that don't like an 11T small sprocket don't live somewhere particularly hilly?


To be fair, on reasonably steep descents I don't pedal.

But it's those annoying 3-4% ones where you need the 11 tooth. Freewheeling gets you 30mph but if you want to go faster you have to pedal

Long Hill from Buxton to Whaley Bridge is a good example. It's about 5 miles down at about 3% so it's a boring descent without pedalling


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## KneesUp (13 Feb 2019)

nickyboy said:


> It gets worse...I bought a bike from Decathlon. Decent road bike. Presumably standard specced for UK.
> 
> Lowest gear was 34-25. I live in the Peak District. It was tough going. I did make it up Winnats pass with that gearing for a bet but it wasn't pretty


I remember cycling out of Borth y Gest to Porthmadoc and then on to Harlech castle on my 1980s Peugeot with 52/42 and 14-25, when all the cycling I'd done until then had been in lovely flat south Manchester. I would not be at all surprised if the knee pain I get now, nearly 30 years later, is as a direct result of that day.


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## ColinJ (13 Feb 2019)

KneesUp said:


> I remember cycling out of Borth y Gest to Porthmadoc and then on to Harlech castle on my 1980s Peugeot with 52/42 and 14-25, when all the cycling I'd done until then had been in lovely flat south Manchester. I would not be at all surprised if the knee pain I get now, nearly 30 years later, is as a direct result of that day.


Especially if you went by the scenic route!


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## Jody (13 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> descents are there to rest your legs and recover energy.



Nah. Descents are for adrenaline not rest.


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## Ajax Bay (13 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't particularly give a stuff about the spacing.


There's the crux. If a rider doesn't care (or realise that closer spacing might be beneficial) then why not have an 11t or indeed a 34t (if the RD can cope).


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## DCBassman (14 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> The alternative is going for a triple to get the desired range


No, have the 11-34 AND the triple! It's great!.


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## Hugh Manatee (14 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I guess the people that don't like an 11T small sprocket don't live somewhere particularly hilly?



Or have a 53 big ring. Stupid autocorrect wanted to change that to a Bing ring. I'm not sure if I want to know what one of those is!


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## IanSmithCSE (14 Feb 2019)

Good morning,

How about new bikes being shipped to dealers without cassettes or chain rings (just the cranks)?

I can see that dealers may not be happy stocking a range of chainrings for each groupset in a manufacturer's range for both cost and space reasons, but I suspect that if this were to become the norm, chainrings could be supplied in dealer bulk packs reducing cost significantly.

Cassettes would seem to be a bit easier to stock especially if we went back a bit in time and each sprocket could be added individually, even if standard sizes had to be used I suspect that the supply chain would become more used to holding and shipping a higher volume than is currently the case.

I was looking at a Specialized Allez recently and it came with an 11-32 cassette (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32), 8 speed Claris, with 50/34 chain rings, it was bought by someone who had not cycled since school to do triathlons on and she didn't know enough to ask for a cassette change.

For where I live and at my current level of fitness that is almost a 3 speed bike, 34*18, 50*18, 50*13. the 15-18 jump is really wrong for me as 15 is too large a gear and 18 too small a gear on the large ring so it is also almost 4 speed with a lot of gear changes.

If I were buying the bike and could specify the cassette it would ideally be 12-14-15-16-17-19-21-24 and if I didn't know what I wanted I could ask for something typical for my area.

Bye

Ian


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## KneesUp (14 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Are you suggesting that _if only _I were to use close spacing the scales would fall from my eyes and I would realise what I've been missing all along?
> 
> Well, maybe, but I like my 11-34 cassette too much to risk it. The alternative is going for a triple to get the desired range, which would mean completely re-engineering my bike, something I don't have the time or inclination to do.
> 
> I can honestly say that I've never, ever thought _"this gear in the middle of the range is OK, but really, it's not quite right. I wish it were just a smidge higher (or lower) but not a whole gear change"_. I'm sure that there are plenty of other people who do think this. Probably people who are fitter than me, who ride faster and do bigger distances.



I generally go for range - I think I have a 12-32 on the currently used wheel. Might be a 34. I also have a triple. However, the other (very rarely used at the moment) bike has a I-don't-quite-remember cassette on it that I bought because it was in the bargain bin at a cycle jumble and had seemingly no wear. It has 1 tooth gaps. I am not fit, and only really used it for commuting (until the novelty of the speed benefit of the other bike being lighter wore off and I was annoyed by it's relatively hard ride, fragility of the wheels versus the craters in the road and lack of mudguards) but I have to admit that on my lightly undulating commute the 1 tooth gaps were quite nice. If I were to ride any distance around here I suspect my lack of fitness and the lack of range would soon cause problems though, which is why I generally use wider spacing. That said, now I've thought about it I might swap that cassette on to the used bike for a bit because my current level of fitness does at the moment leave me wanting a gear in between two gears. It's not a massive problem though, as you say, and not one I'd spend money to sort out - but 10 minutes with a cassette tool, maybe. If it's not cold or raining at the weekend. Otherwise, forget it !


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## postman (14 Feb 2019)

Poacher said:


> You had a front clanger? You must have been well off! I dreamt of having 10 gears instead of 5.
> 
> Cue "You were lucky, we had to eat COLD gravel" response.




Brakes brakes you were lucky when i wer a lad we wore out the fronts of our shoes got a right slapping orf me mum.


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## mustang1 (14 Feb 2019)

What is the carbon footprint of your carbon bike?


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## jowwy (15 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I guess the people that don't like an 11T small sprocket don't live somewhere particularly hilly?


i have a 10t on mine....but only a 38t upfront


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## I like Skol (15 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> i have a 10t on mine...


Yes, but you have more money than sense! I just looked at the price of such cassettes, I would expect a top-end chainset for that!


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## jowwy (15 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Yes, but you have more money than sense! I just looked at the price of such cassettes, I would expect a top-end chainset for that!


cassette was only about £75

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy...10-42t-449060?currency=3&delivery_country=190


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