# Newbee to Mountain biking



## Yanto (30 Sep 2008)

Hi all. I do quite a bit of road riding but will stop soon for the winter and only use my Bianchi on a turbo in the garage to maintain fitness. I am considering having a go at mountain biking, and have a mate who rides at Llandegla quite a bit. Basically, to do the 'learner type' trails do I need a bike with front suspension or will a non-suspension bike be ok? 

Secondly I have been offered a 5 year old Scott Sport series at a very reasonable price and wondered if its at all possible to fit a front suspension unit to this bike? Or would it be better to just buy a bike that already has front suspension. I do not want to spend much as not sure if I will take it up.

Many thanks for any advice offered


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## maurice (30 Sep 2008)

You don't need front suspension for learner trails. Back in the day people raced rigid bikes downhill.

It's nicer having suspension though, it's less harsh and you go faster. You will get weird types telling you they "love the vibe" or some such though.

Not familiar with the scott, but it probably is possible to fit forks to assuming it's not a pile-o-shite. But yeah it's most likely you would be better off buying a hardtail in the first place.


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## Mr Pig (30 Sep 2008)

You might start off on simple tracks but pretty soon you'll be bouncing over rougher terrain. I'm not saying you'll 'need' a pogo-fork but if you think you would like one eventually you'd be better off getting one to begin with. Their main down side is weight. The upside is that you can hit big bumps really hard and not fall off! ;0)

Is that Scott bike a MTB or hybrid? I know that the Sportster is a hybrid.


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## Yanto (30 Sep 2008)

Mr Pig - the Scott is a mountain bike from about 5 or 6 years ago. Also looking at Specialized Hardrock Sports from 07. They seem to be a better bet all round?


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## Mr Pig (30 Sep 2008)

Yanto said:


> They seem to be a better bet all round?



I don't know. I think Specialized bikes are great value but Scott bikes aren't rubbish either. The problem you've got is that the Scott is five years old and not the spec you want. By the time sort out any worn parts and fit a pogo it might not be the bargain you first thought, do your homework. 

I looked at the Hardrocks a few months ago. I don't think they looked bad but there was a few details that I found disappointing, the forks in particular looked pretty basic. Still solid bikes though, the Mondeo of the bike world ;0) You could do a lot worse but I felt that spending a little more was worth doing. I bought a steel framed Genesis bike and I have to say that off road it's really sorted.


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## bonj2 (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Hi all. I do quite a bit of road riding but will stop soon for the winter and only use my Bianchi on a turbo in the garage to maintain fitness. I am considering having a go at mountain biking, and have a mate who rides at Llandegla quite a bit. Basically, to do the 'learner type' trails do I need a bike with front suspension or will a non-suspension bike be ok?
> 
> Secondly I have been offered a 5 year old Scott Sport series at a very reasonable price and wondered if its at all possible to fit a front suspension unit to this bike? Or would it be better to just buy a bike that already has front suspension. I do not want to spend much as not sure if I will take it up.
> 
> Many thanks for any advice offered


Basically you can do the green/blue trails at any trail centre (llandegla being no exception) with rigid forks. You _can theoretically_ do the red with rigids, but it'll be a lot more fun with good suspension forks, as you'll be able to go faster and be more in control.
The thing is though if you get the mtb bug you will _want_ to do the red.
For suspension forks, look for marzocchi or fox (or high-end rockshox), pref. at least 120mm travel, and ideally with lockout so you can lock them out for climbing on road.


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## 02GF74 (1 Oct 2008)

the geometry for frames designed for with suspension forks is different than those for rigid forks.

if you fit suspension forks to a frame that was not designed for them, it will sit higher at the front than intended and the angles will be out - whether that creates a problem for you I don't know.

ebay is full of new and nearly new front suspension bikes; just take your time finding the one that you like.

sizewise you are looking at inside leg length less 15 or 16 inches; it will be around 5 or 6 inches smaller than youor road bike, assuming that is sized correctly.


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

02GF74 said:


> the geometry for frames designed for with suspension forks is different than those for rigid forks.



But many frames are built with the geometry corrected for suspension forks now. That bike might well be ok.


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

Mr Pig - can I ask which Genesis bike you got and also (cheekily) ask what you paid please?


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## Trillian (1 Oct 2008)

you can ride any trail on a ridged single speed bike, a friend of mine goes as far as using a coaster brake (back pedal)

it just might be harder work and a bit more bumpy


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Mr Pig - can I ask which Genesis bike you got?



I got the Altitude 00, which is the cheapest steel bike. List price was £570, I paid £540 but I've seen them advertised for a lot less now that they're last year's model. It's a very comfortable bike.

All of the steel bikes and the aluminium ones, the Core range, share the same geometry so if you can try out any of the bikes you'll know the fit of the others.


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

Just lloked at a Carrera Vulcan in Halfords for £320. It has 24 gears, 100mm travel on front forks and a lockout facility. Anybody know anything of these? Halfords own brand?


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

Also looking at a Felt and Focus on Wiggle. Both at around £240. The Felt has 75mm fork travel and disc brakes with 21 speed. The Focus has 100mm fork travel with lockout but only v brakes. Which is better spec please? Thanks again


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## KitsuneAndy (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Also looking at a Felt and Focus on Wiggle. Both at around £240. The Felt has 75mm fork travel and disc brakes with 21 speed. The Focus has 100mm fork travel with lockout but only v brakes. Which is better spec please? Thanks again



Depends on the rest of the kit really. Link to both the bikes in question?


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

Halfords bikes get mixed revues, a friend of mine had one and liked it. Only buy one though if you can service it yourself as Halfords bike staff are notoriously hopeless, or at least they can be. The young guy in my local branch is ok but he was telling me how bad the two guys who proceeded him were, they'd rather sell you a new bike than sort your old one. The shop also sells bikes with disk brakes despite neither of the staff being trained to service them! 

If you do go for a Halfords bike, don't buy one full price. Halfords don't sell many £500 bikes so hang on and you'll get one half price!


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## KitsuneAndy (1 Oct 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> Halfords bikes get mixed revues, a friend of mine had one and liked it. Only buy one though if you can service it yourself as Halfords bike staff are notoriously hopeless, or at least they can be. The young guy in my local branch is ok but he was telling me how bad the two guys who proceeded him were, they'd rather sell you a new bike than sort your old one. The shop also sells bikes with disk brakes despite neither of the staff being trained to service them!
> 
> If you do go for a Halfords bike, don't buy one full price. Halfords don't sell many £500 bikes so hang on and you'll get one half price!



Depends what brand you're buying. Bikehut stock Voodoo, Kona and Boardman now and I'd imagine the price cuts they can offer on those are very limited.

The Carrera bikes do get pretty good reviews and I believe the frames are made by Merida, so there aren't any Halfords parts on there. But as you say, their workmanship in the shops isn't always particularly good.

Saying that, the guys at my local one seem competent and I'm picking up a new bike in the morning.


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

This is the Felt 

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Felt_Q220_2008/5360032858/


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

And here's the Focus

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Focus_Highland_Peak_2008/5360032162/


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## KitsuneAndy (1 Oct 2008)

In my opinion the Focus would be the better buy.

It might not have disc brakes but it's generally a better spec (Deore rear mech instead of Acera).

But there's not a huge amount in it. Depends whether you particularly want disc brakes or not, you can always upgrade in the future.

For around the same price there's also the GT Avalanche 3.0 or the Halfords version the GT Aggressor XC3.

The most important thing would be to atleast sit on the bike first, make sure it's the right size for you. Spec doesn't matter if you end up feeling uncomfortable everytime you ride.


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## bonj2 (1 Oct 2008)

both got shite suntour forks.


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## KitsuneAndy (1 Oct 2008)

bonj said:


> both got shite suntour forks.



lol, very true. Can't expect much more at that price though.

I've currently got crappy RST Gila's on my Trek 4300, they're a bit shite as well. Will have some lovely Rockshox Reba's from tomorrow though!


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

andy - yes I totally agree

bonj - at my price point, what forks should I be hoping to get then please?


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## mickle (1 Oct 2008)

Don't get hung up on which forks to use, the most important thing to fret about at this early stage is what frame size you need. A second hand rigid fork equipped bike will probably do for now and give you a good intro to dirt riding without breaking the bank. If the Scott fits you, is mechanically sound and the right price I think you should buy it, If you really get into it and choose to upgrade to a real mountain bike you'll lose less money flipping a second hand bike than a newish £250 bike.

The most important parts on a mountain bike are the tyres by the way. A set of new good quality rubber will have much more effect on performance than an average pair of sus forks.


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

Here's the best price I can see for the Altitude 00, £450:

http://www.cyclesurgery.com/1026755/Genesis-Altitude-00.html?referrer=froogle.txt

My last bike was an aluminium Hardrock. The difference between it and the steel Genesis bike is that after an hour on the Hardrock you're dying to get off. The Genesis is far less fatiguing and after an hour you feel like going further. 

It's not just that the ride is less harsh, the geometry is more comfortable too. These things are so important that it makes buying a bike blind a very risky proposition. Is this a bike that will be used almost exclusively off road?

Another interesting thing that I discovered about the Altitude 00. The 2009 bike is virtually identical, in fact the only differences I can find are two small decal/colour changes. It's the same bike and the price is now up to £650!


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

Mr Pig - yes I am looking to use the bike exclusively off road. I already have three roadies.


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> yes I am looking to use the bike exclusively off road.



I would look for a bike very specifically set up for that then. There's huge differences in the geometry of mountain bikes. I found the Hardrock too aggressive and twitchy and when I mentioned this to the guy in the shop he said 'Yeah, it's because they're designed for teenagers, they're the biggest buyers of them'. Solid bikes, good warranty, reliable. Off road? Not a lot of fun. 

Try phoning round a few places to get opinions? I phoned the bike shop called 'The Hub' at the Glentress trail centre and they recommended the Altitude, they use them as hire bikes. It's really hard to try lots of different bikes but if you gather as much information as you can you begin to build up a general picture of the character of them. For me the main thing I wanted was a bike that was comfortable and fun off road. Have a think about what you really want from the bike then track that down. If you get a bike that's not right for you you'll end up not using it.


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## Yanto (1 Oct 2008)

Thanks very much for that. I am going up to Llandegla at the weekend to ride the beginner's trail. I have spoken to a colleague of mine who has been mountain biking for quite some time and he tells me that various types of bikes can be hired at the centre there. That should give me an idea of exactly what type of set up I would prefer, before I buy. Cheers again


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> I have spoken to a colleague of mine and he tells me that various bikes can be hired at the centre there.



Ideal. Have fun :0) Try and get a shot on a steel one, the difference is night and day.


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## bonj2 (1 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> andy - yes I totally agree
> 
> bonj - at my price point, what forks should I be hoping to get then please?



like i've said, fox, marzocchi or high-end rockshox (i.e. not 'judy','lisa' et al or any other women's name. reba, fine - pike - even better.)
if you can't afford them at your "price point" then increase your price point.


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

The best Rockshox for he's going to get under £500 is a Tora and down around £300 is Suntour Land.


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## bonj2 (1 Oct 2008)

WITH rest of bike, that is...


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## Mr Pig (1 Oct 2008)

bonj said:


> WITH rest of bike, that is...



Ha ha ha, yes :0) Obviously.


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

bonj - no. I have set my budget. I have never done this type of riding before, so refuse to overspend on something that I may not follow up. As I stated, this will only be used during the winter months, when my expensive road bikes will be off the road. IF I try this and like it I MAY then spend more on a better spec bike at that time, but not now.


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## KitsuneAndy (2 Oct 2008)

What is the maximum budget you've set yourself?


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

Andy- up to £350-£400. I appreciate, as others have said, that I am looking at budget models with not so good spec, but I have no intention of going any higher. I am looking second-hand too as I may get a better spec machine when used.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (2 Oct 2008)

FWIW I've got a 2001 Scott Voltage YZ1 that's stood up to 25 to 40 miles a week, 52 weeks a year, usually Sunday mornings on the local tracks & TPT routes.
Good solid bike. Forks are worthless Taiwanese cheapies, but that's ok for what I do.
LBS only too happy to pop me higher spec drivetrain parts when other stuff wears out. Can't be many £350 bikes with Deore LX running about!

Funnily enough I've been dabbling at being a roadie again on the 1982 Carlton Kermesse I've been given.


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## KitsuneAndy (2 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Andy- up to £350-£400. I appreciate, as others have said, that I am looking at budget models with not so good spec, but I have no intention of going any higher. I am looking second-hand too as I may get a better spec machine when used.



No thats fine, I was just wondering what budget you were looking at to see if I had any suggestions in that price range. I don't quite agree with Bonj, I think some of the lower spec bikes are fine and are a great way into MTB. However you'll probably find that upgrading a sub £500 bike isn't worth it and you end up better off buying a whole new bike if you do decide to take it more seriously and get a better bike. Which is exactly what I've just done with my Trek 4300.

For around that price, I'd check out the GT Avalanche range. I appreciated the 1.0 will be out of your price range but it's cheaper brethren are still good bikes (the 1.0 was best rated sub £500 hardtail in MBUK).

As for second hand it might be worth looking at any local shops that have ex demo or ex rental. When I was at Afan a month or so ago they had some ex rental Kona Caldera's for £375. And riding both The Wall and Penhydd trails was great fun on those.


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

Andy - many thanks for that. Just had a quick look in What Mountain Bike and for around my budget it seems that Saracen Element, Gary Fisher Tarpon and Merida are very good value, although as some have said I will be looking at 'shite forks'. Although being a complete novice, will I be able to tell the difference between good and 'shite forks'? Going up to £500 the Focus Fatboy, Scott Aspect and Cube Attention get good reviews.


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

Just been up to Llandegla and been told that their rental bikes are to be sold off on November 1st. They are all Kona Hoss 2008 models. Apparently originally retailed at £800 and now at 12 months old will be sold for £400 each and will be fully serviced prior to sale. Any good? Here's the spec

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/13282/Kona_Hoss_Bike_2008


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## Mr Pig (2 Oct 2008)

Kona bikes are always praised as nice riding machines. I almost bought a Hoss myself but chickened out because it was mail order. If you can try one out that sounds good. No way they cost them £800 though. My bet it that they bought them for around £500. Go and try one and if you like it look for a deal on a new one. Here's one for £500 http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b7s2p535

They are tough, heavy bikes designed for the more ample rider. When I looked for revues on them I couldn't find a single bad one! Everyone who has a Hoss seems to love it. Good spec too, I think it would be a good buy.


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

Thanks Mr Pig. They are still selling for about £650 in places. Sounds like a decent machine then. Not selling then until 1st November though so have to wait, but will definitely hire one at the weekend to try.


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## Mr Pig (2 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Sounds like a decent machine then.



I think so. They use beefed up parts in critical areas, as they are designed for heavier riders, and the upshot is one tough bike. Probably why they chose them as hire bikes. 

I'd take care though as hire bikes have a very hard life. How many bikes get hammered all day every day! If you like the Hoss I'd look for a used one by all means but I don't know about an ex hire one.


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## Yanto (2 Oct 2008)

I see what you mean. They fully service them and correct any faults before sale and offer 12 months warranty so there is some peace of mind I guess


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## bonj2 (2 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> bonj - no. I have set my budget. I have never done this type of riding before, so refuse to overspend on something that I may not follow up. As I stated, this will only be used during the winter months, when my expensive road bikes will be off the road. IF I try this and like it I MAY then spend more on a better spec bike at that time, but not now.





KitsuneAndy said:


> No thats fine, I was just wondering what budget you were looking at to see if I had any suggestions in that price range. I don't quite agree with Bonj, I think some of the lower spec bikes are fine and are a great way into MTB. However you'll probably find that upgrading a sub £500 bike isn't worth it and you end up better off buying a whole new bike if you do decide to take it more seriously and get a better bike. Which is exactly what I've just done with my Trek 4300.
> 
> For around that price, I'd check out the GT Avalanche range. I appreciated the 1.0 will be out of your price range but it's cheaper brethren are still good bikes (the 1.0 was best rated sub £500 hardtail in MBUK).
> 
> As for second hand it might be worth looking at any local shops that have ex demo or ex rental. When I was at Afan a month or so ago they had some ex rental Kona Caldera's for £375. And riding both The Wall and Penhydd trails was great fun on those.



they're fine *to get into it*, but IF you get bitten by the bug, then they can only ever be a stop gap, as with mtbing you WILL want to do more adventurous trails, and do them faster, which means you'll soon by bottoming out the suntours.


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## bonj2 (2 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> Just been up to Llandegla and been told that their rental bikes are to be sold off on November 1st. They are all Kona Hoss 2008 models. Apparently originally retailed at £800 and now at 12 months old will be sold for £400 each and will be fully serviced prior to sale. Any good? Here's the spec
> 
> http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/13282/Kona_Hoss_Bike_2008



that's a LOT better.


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## KitsuneAndy (3 Oct 2008)

bonj said:


> they're fine *to get into it*, but IF you get bitten by the bug, then they can only ever be a stop gap, as with mtbing you WILL want to do more adventurous trails, and do them faster, which means you'll soon by bottoming out the suntours.



Yeah exactly, but as the OP said they were just planning on 'having a go' I wouldn't expect him to fork out a shedload of cash on a well specced bike to begin with.

And yes, I fell victim to the bug and picked up my new toy this morning 

The Hoss does look nice  If it comes with 12 month warranty then it being an ex-rental doesn't seem so bad.


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## Yanto (3 Oct 2008)

bonj and Andy- many thanks for your replies. I can totally accept what you say re 'getting the bug'. I started off with a cheap 'roadie' and now have 3 that cost me a packet! Probably be the same with mtb. Going on Sunday to try one of the rental Hoss' and see how badly I hurt myself!


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## KitsuneAndy (3 Oct 2008)

Yanto said:


> bonj and Andy- many thanks for your replies. I can totally accept what you say re 'getting the bug'. I started off with a cheap 'roadie' and now have 3 that cost me a packet! Probably be the same with mtb. Going on Sunday to try one of the rental Hoss' and see how badly I hurt myself!



Have fun


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## bonj2 (3 Oct 2008)

I was going to suggest that but it seems you've already got that idea - a lot of trail centres do hire bikes out, and they're not bad either. Cost £40 or so, but you'll have it for a good few hours and it'll tell you whether your'e likely to want to get into it or not.


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## Yanto (3 Oct 2008)

£15 for half a days rental. Quite good value I guess.


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## Mr Pig (3 Oct 2008)

The Hub said that if I went down I could try a few bikes out for a £10 fee and if I bought a bike I'd get the £10 back. It sounds to me like an ideal way to buy a new bike.


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## bonj2 (3 Oct 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> The Hub said that if I went down I could try a few bikes out for a £10 fee and if I bought a bike I'd get the £10 back. It sounds to me like an ideal way to buy a new bike.



well, £10 isn't much compared to the costof a (good) bike.
So just consider it like they're offering you a £10 off the price of the bike.
In other words you may be ableto get the same bike for MORE than a tenner less, elsewhere.


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## Mr Pig (4 Oct 2008)

bonj said:


> In other words you may be able to get the same bike for MORE than a tenner less, elsewhere.



Indeed, in fact I did. My point was that being able to try a selection of bikes at a trail centre is an ideal way to buy a bike. Even if it did cost you few pounds more to buy a bike that way it could be well worth it in the long run.


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## Kirstie (6 Oct 2008)

What do Specialized Rockhoppers retail for these days? I would recommend one of these for starters.

Trek and Giant also do very good entry level models which are better speced than that Felt or Focus. I wouldn't go near either of those.

Not sure about the advice you received for a Hardrock. Plenty of people start off with them and they are very serviceable.

Kona Hoss would be heavy

One thing you could do is have a test ride on all of the bikes at your price point and then look for a second hand on singletrack classifieds. You might even save money there.


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## Yanto (6 Oct 2008)

Kirstie - tried a Hoss yesterday and youre right it did feel heavy- but very solid and sure. I know that at my budget I am looking at rather basic models. What would you say is wrong with the Felt? Really don't want a Giant. Would like to stick with Bianchi but they are out of my range, even for a basic model. Which Trek would you suggest? Thanks


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## Kirstie (6 Oct 2008)

Its a 7 gear system. This won't give you anything like the versatility and power you need if you want to start riding places like llandegla. The forks will be sluggish, unresponsive, and will not inspire confidence. It will just make you very frustrated!

Here's the relevant trek model. It's OK except for the forks, which I would swap for some marzocchi MX comps
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id44324.html

Kona:
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id40775.html

Marin:
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id41272.html

This is a great deal. It even has the marzocchi forks.
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id35975.html


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## Kirstie (6 Oct 2008)

See also

Scott
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/scott/aspect-30-2008-mountain-bike-ec001262

Cannondale
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/f6-2009-mountain-bike-ec016563

Iron Horse
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/iron-horse/warrior-3-hydro-2008-mountain-bike-ec000747

Another Kona
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/blast-2008-mountain-bike-ec000763

If you want to compare these the place to look at is www.mtbr.com - it's THE review site for MTB products.


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## Mr Pig (6 Oct 2008)

Kirstie said:


> What do Specialized Rockhoppers retail for these days?



You should get the entry one with disk brakes for around £500 in the sales, a bit less for V-brakes.


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## Mr Pig (6 Oct 2008)

Here you go:

http://www.dalescycles.com/Specialized_Rockhopper_2008_Bike_p/specroc08.htm

Good bike. Very different from some of the other bikes you're looking at but a quick, well built machine at a good price.


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## bonj2 (6 Oct 2008)

Kirstie said:


> See also
> 
> Scott
> http://www.evanscycles.com/products/scott/aspect-30-2008-mountain-bike-ec001262
> ...



of them i'd go for the iron horse.


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## Mr Pig (6 Oct 2008)

bonj said:


> of them i'd go for the iron horse.



The Kona at the bottom of that page gets great revues.


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## bonj2 (7 Oct 2008)

My opinion is based solely on a perception that marzocchi forks are better than rockshox darts. Basically think of rockshox as a very wide range - from very basic, entry level - to very very good.
i.e. the worst are really basic, entry level forks, but the best are professional standard, e.g. boxxer. Marzocchi and fox are in-between, more of a narrower band.
However that's not to say those particular forks are a pile of shoot - they're probably perfectly adequate.


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## Yanto (9 Oct 2008)

Sorry to keep asking. Anyone got any experience of Mongoose mtb's. Read a review in a new bike mag yesterday of their Tyax Super. At £399 it beat more expensive bikes in their test including Scott Aspect 45, Kona Blast and Genesis Core 00.


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