# Raleigh Royal (late 1980s) rebuild - advice for beginner



## dmgraham8 (15 Jan 2021)

Hi fab forum, 

I am going to rebuild my dad’s Raleigh Royal (c 1986 - 90 I think), 531st frame. 23” (I am 6’3”). 

However I am a novice bike mechanic. 

Unfortunately I can’t post photos at the moment because I am new to the forum, but it looks like the one in the below website. I will be able to post lots of photos in due course.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=369163


I intend to replace almost everything except frame, forks, and brake callipers. It’s a project to learn new skills, but not a careful restoration (the frame is a bit rusty).

I am not quite sure where to start - I need to do some reading before I embark on stripping it all down.

Can people suggest a comprehensive book / website / forum that can talk me through the process in some detail? Especially for this age of Raleigh.

I saw Mr Gunk’s post(s) with lots of photos - a similar rebuild - but he obviously has lots of experience! : 

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/raleigh-royal-tourer-rebuild.262163/


Any advice very much appreciated.

Thanks,

David


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## dmgraham8 (15 Jan 2021)

In case the link to photo does not work.. another similar bike:
https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/274356/


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## All uphill (15 Jan 2021)

Hi and welcome!

I'd suggest getting it into a usable condition and then riding it.

Make improvements one at a time until you are really happy that everything works perfectly. Then either keep riding or strip the bike completely, respray and rebuild.

Doing things gradually reduces the risk of motivation loss, ime. There are lots of boxes of bikes in bits in garages gathering dust! I'm collecting one of thos from a neighbout tomorrow!

Good luck and keep asking questions.


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## teaboy (15 Jan 2021)

All uphill said:


> Hi and welcome!
> 
> I'd suggest getting it into a usable condition and then riding it.
> 
> ...


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## teaboy (15 Jan 2021)

I agree one step at a time


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## Gunk (15 Jan 2021)

I restored one last year, hopefully this may help.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/raleigh-royal-tourer-rebuild.262163/


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## Gunk (15 Jan 2021)

Sorry didn’t read the earlier post and link to my thread. 🤦‍♂️


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Jan 2021)

I've got one that dates from 1985, in regular 531, not the heavier ST tubeset, and it's the most comfortable riding frame I possess. They are nice bikes and well worth keeping.






I would suggest you avoid the temptation to get too carried away, and start by assessing the condition of all the existing mechanical parts, then cleaning regreasing and refitting everything in a systematic way. There might not be that much wrong with it that needs replacing other than the normal bits that deteriorate with age or wear out like tyres, control cables and chains.
f your frame has got the same dropout spacing as mine, 120 mm, then it was designed to accept a five speed rear wheel. My wheels are also 27", not metric 700c. Don't assume you can automatically fit parts designed for a modern road bike that might have a 10 speed cassette and a wider axle spacing. If substituting more modern parts, you will find hybrid town bike wheels and transmission parts are a better match to the frame than modern road bike bits.


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## DRM (16 Jan 2021)

https://www.youtube.com/user/parktoolcompany
https://www.youtube.com/user/shyflirt1

Have a look at both You Tube channels, Park Tool are the gold standard for bike repair videos for bikes of all types & ages, they are very good at explaining exactly what you should be doing to complete a task, R J the bike guy buys old bikes and restores them, he's also very good at explaining what he does and why.
Good luck with the restoration, as others have said, make it safe & useable, ride it then think about what you would like to improve once you know it's foibles.


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## biggs682 (16 Jan 2021)

@dmgraham8 welcome , I would suggest you get it mobile enough to do a few laps of a quiet road or cycle path to check everything is working or not then then fix those issues as you go along. 

The first things to check are that you can adjust both the saddle and handle bar stem for height as if either of those are seized then it might not be worth doing. 

Feel free to ask questions that's what we are here for.


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## Bonefish Blues (16 Jan 2021)

dmgraham8 said:


> In case the link to photo does not work.. another similar bike:
> https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/274356/


Oooh Maxicars - had those on my wheels on my Royal BITD - sold for strong money a few years ago, and the Super Champ rims. Tremendous things.

I know that bikes not your exact bike OP, but yours is definitely worth restoration.


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## dmgraham8 (16 Jan 2021)

What a responsive and helpful bunch!

@All uphill and @teaboy - that sounds like a good strategy. Perhaps I will strip down a few bits and clean to start with. Manageable chunks. I will need new wheels and I think the BB needs tlc when I am brave enough.

@SkipdiverJohn - yours is beautiful and thank you for the tips re dropout spacing and compatible parts. I’ll have to put new wheels in, so will keep this in mind (and report back).

@biggs682 - thank you. It needs a few bits to make it roadworthy, but I'll get it going and work at it incrementally as you suggest. Saddle and stem seem to be ok  I'll send some pics soon.

@DRM - thank you for the links, that is excellent and I will use. I have heard the Park Tools blue book is good, too.

@Gunk - thanks for posting  . Your various threads are really useful. What is the book you are referring to on the table of tools during Royal rebuild?

@Bonefish Blues - I’ll keep one eye out for maxicars!


I will get stuck in, pace myself, and post photos to keep me motivated / accountable!


Photos and questions to follow soon

David


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Jan 2021)

@dmgraham8 Mine looks better from a few yards away than it does up close. It won't win any beauty contests no matter how well it rides. There's a few relatively minor but visible scrapes on the frame and the headset chrome is rather unsightly. I've got a nicer Tange headset which I am intending to swap fairly soon.
When I got it, it came with a rather battered and broken pair of mudguards. a shabby chrome steel rack, and needed a saddle. I took the Touring bits off and run it as a fair weather bike, since I've got hybrids with mudguards and racks. On the plus side, it was very cheap for a bike with a 531 frame, and doesn't look to have done too many miles. The tyres in the photo I believe to be the original Michelins, now 36 years old. They are also earmarked for replacement as I will probably swap to 700c wheels and convert it to a six speed rear end. Yours may already be six speed if it has canti brakes since that would indicate a later build date.
Nothing on a conventionally engineered steel bike is too complex, and so long as you have a half decent selection of basic hand tools you should manage fine. Take plenty of pictures on your mobile phone of how things look before starting then you can refer back to how it is supposed to look when it comes to putting it back together. You don't need to be any bike mechanic to rebuild bikes, any more than you need to be a car mechanic to do your own maintenance. Most of it is about using common sense and the correct use of hand tools so you don't damage things by being ham-fisted.
Good luck with the rebuild, and put some pics up in the vintage section when the forum software allows you to post images. Those of us who ride old steel bikes always pay attention to such rebuild threads.


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## DRM (16 Jan 2021)

Yes the Park Tools Blue Book is excellent, I’ve got the latest edition myself.


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## Gunk (16 Jan 2021)

dmgraham8 said:


> @Gunk - thanks for posting  . Your various threads are really useful. What is the book you are referring to on the table of tools during Royal rebuild?



It’s published by Haynes, I’ve had it years, found it in a charity shop, but it’s still useful for reference.


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## dmgraham8 (17 Jan 2021)

Thanks very much Gunk and Skipdiver John,

Here are some pictures (I'll send a message to the vintage forum, too, as suggested). I know it’s in a sorry state but as it belonged to my father I would like to revive it as far as poss.

I think the R500 wheel(s) are totally wrong - they were put on a few years ago, but the rear is AWOL.

Can someone suggest a good wheelset that is in keeping with this age of bike?

I suppose I will get a 7 speed cassette.. but how do I go about choosing a good (budget) option?

The rear dropout spacing is 125mm - I understand it is possible to expand to 130mm which might make life easier, but is it worth it?

Everything else I will retain, clean and lubricate for the time being and see how it rides..

Any other thoughts gratefully received.

David


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## Gunk (17 Jan 2021)

dmgraham8 said:


> Thanks very much Gunk and Skipdiver John,
> 
> Here are some pictures (I'll send a message to the vintage forum, too, as suggested). I know it’s in a sorry state but as it belonged to my father I would like to revive it as far as poss.
> 
> ...



You can buy an inexpensive reproduction vintage 27" wheelset off eBay, I've bought from this seller, just send a message that you want 125 mm OLD and they'll help you out.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-NEW...749592?hash=item2f2eed0a98:g:j2QAAOSwz2Bdns46


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## DRM (17 Jan 2021)

https://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk
https://www.spacycles.co.uk
Have a look at the above suppliers, they stock some items that are deemed "old fashioned" and will be a good place to start for spares sympathetic to the bikes age.
If the bike has a Shimano R500 wheel on, the rear may have been the same, so the frames chain stays could have been widened, known as cold setting, to allow a modern wheel to fit, as above measure the width, if its 125mm it's standard, if it's 130 mm it's been widened, however the Shimano wheels are inexpensive & good quality if it's been modified, so it's not the end of the world.


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## Gunk (17 Jan 2021)

DRM said:


> https://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk
> https://www.spacycles.co.uk
> Have a look at the above suppliers, they stock some items that are deemed "old fashioned" and will be a good place to start for spares sympathetic to the bikes age.
> If the bike has a Shimano R500 wheel on, the rear may have been the same, so the frames chain stays could have been widened, known as cold setting, to allow a modern wheel to fit, as above measure the width, if its 125mm it's standard, if it's 130 mm it's been widened, however the Shimano wheels are inexpensive & good quality if it's been modified, so it's not the end of the world.



My eBay link is the same seller, they’re very good.


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## accountantpete (17 Jan 2021)

Ideally you need to take the BB off and see if the seatpost is free.

I'd take the cranks off and turn the BB by hand to see what state it is in if you can't remove it.

The Sakae cranks were entry level - but they appear to be in good usable condition.

The rear mech is Shimano I think - again entry level.

The wheels will depend on what you want the bike to look like. Original wheels can be bought but you can hit problems with worn hubs.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Jan 2021)

That's a nice frame, and as originally mentioned is at least a couple of years younger than my own Royal. I agree the racing wheels with not many spokes definitely don't suit a touring bike like a Royal. I believe the canti-braked version with the 531ST tubing was built with 700c wheels from new, so I would not retro-fit 27" because it's probably not correct anyway and the choice of 27" tyres is worse than for 700c.
There's several options for wheels. If you want really strong good quality ones, probably your best bet is sourcing a 36 spoke touring wheelset from someone like Spa or SJS. You could also buy a wheelset from one of the regular suppliers. The third option is you acquire a cheapo donor bike, either another tourer or a flat bar hybrid, and rob the wheels off that to put on the Royal. I picked up a £20 531 framed donor bike late last year which has decent enough 700c wheels and a six speed cluster, which I am going to use to convert my Royal to 700c. The spacing of these wheels is 126 mm, I will just spring the 120 mm spacing frame stays with my fingers during fitting.
I recently fitted a 130 mm wide 7 speed rear wheel to my Dawes 531 frame that is spaced for a 126 mm 6 speed (but actually measures just under). Again I didn't cold set the frame, I just got the wheel in position then forced the stays open a bit more as I slotted the wheel in. If you only need to go up in hub width one increment I really don't see the need or point in bothering to permanently set the frame. If you just spring it, you save a lot of messing around and don't weaken anything.


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## dmgraham8 (18 Jan 2021)

Thank you very much @Gunk and @DRM and @SkipdiverJohn

I have contacted Bankrupt Bikeparts and Spa to see what they would offer in terms of wheel set and freewheel. They look great and I’ll let you know how I get on. 

The current modern wheel is 700c and seems to fit well so I think it may have come with this size originally. I’ll try and source some older-looking 125mm tourer style wheels
(Skip diver John’s recommendation noted).

@accountantpete thanks for the useful info. I’ll keep the cranks and rear mech for the time being, with a view to upgrading when the bike is running again.

I have taken off the upper bits first - brakes, seat post, stem and will clean before looking at the headset and then the spikey bits down below. All the while referring to YouTube videos.

Here’s a picture of the frame sticker for your info and delight.

Many thanks,

David


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## dmgraham8 (30 Jan 2021)

Hi fab forum

Slow, lazy lockdown progress on this.. but this weekend I am removing cranks.

I can get my crank tool in snugly, but it is very stiff when turning in the crank bolt - it may be weakness on my part, but feels like the crank is stuck / bolt is wrong size. Any thoughts? See photos attached. I am following a helpful RJ Bike Guy video, and have tried this on both sides to no avail.

I can send more details of bolt diameter etc if size/compatibility might be an issue.

Thank you,

David

p.s. Bankrupt Bike Parts have sent a new rear wheel and cassette - thanks for the tip.


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Jan 2021)

So the frame is 531ST throughout! Pre-1989 style stickers, so gives a rough ball park of age. Nice spec frames if they have 531 forks & stays, it's more common than not to find 531 main tubes only with off the peg frames as the maker could use the 531 as a selling point but the frame was cheaper to build than a full 531 spec one - crafty marketing!

You have to be very careful not to strip the alloy threads when using the crank extractor tools. What I do is basically this:-
1) Apply spray lube/penetrating oil into the crank arm/square taper interface and leave it to soak in for a good while. Lay the bike on its side when it's soaking, then turn it over and lay down to do the other side crank.
2) Examine the internal thread in the crank arm for alloy corrosion, scrape any away with a screwdriver. Apply some more spray lube to the threads.
3) Before using the crank extractor tool, make sure the inner bolt is backed right out as far as it will go.
4) Grease the fine external thread of the extractor tool, then screw it in by hand only at first. If it gets tight work it backwards and forwards using a spanner if necessary. Keep doing this until the tool will go all the way in until it bottoms out in the hole.
5) Screw in the central extractor bolt until it goes tight, then nip up a bit more. Keep going by very small increments and expect it to go slack when it unseats the taper.
6) If it gets really tight but doesn't release, dont force the tool. Instead, shock the crank arm on the side using a mallet or hammer. A steel hammer delivers more shock, but will mark the crank, so only do this on cheap beater bikes not nice ones!
7) If clouting it still doesn't work, drive a wedge shaped tool such as a large screwdriver blade or cold chisel between the back of the crank arm and the BB shell. Try nipping up the central extractor bolt a bit more as well.
8) If it still resists, apply heat from a hot air gun or blowtorch to the crank arm whilst keeping it under tension.
9) If none of those tricks works you are probably looking at Mr Angle Grinder next....
I have never had to do it yet, and I've removed some pretty stubborn cranks. Do not under any circumstances, risk stripping the alloy thread inside the crank arm. Use any other technique if you have to, but don't just keep winding in the centre bolt once it becomes obvious it ain't coming out that way.


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## midlife (30 Jan 2021)

The bolt you refer to doesn't go into the axle,

unscrew it so that the larger threaded part can thread into the alloy crank. Then tighten the narrow bolt through it and the crank should be pushed off the axle.


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## dmgraham8 (30 Jan 2021)

Great, thank you @SkipdiverJohn that is very clear and helpful. I will have another go, this time with some lubricant first and perhaps a hammer knock. I will report back..


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## dmgraham8 (30 Jan 2021)

midlife said:


> The bolt you refer to doesn't go into the axle,
> 
> unscrew it so that the larger threaded part can thread into the alloy crank. Then tighten the narrow bolt through it and the crank should be pushed off the axle.


Gotcha - thank you!


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## dmgraham8 (30 Jan 2021)

View: https://youtu.be/cPQyQnNdews


This is a good explanation


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Jan 2021)

The Park Tool videos are very good, but they are working on clean uncorroded bikes without any previous owner butchery. Just remember that in the real world you will encounter corrosion and thread damage, especially if like me you only tinker with vintage stuff -so you need to modify your techniques accordingly.
A corroded or damaged thread may give a false impression that the extractor tool is fully screwed in when it isn't, and an already damaged thread will strip at a lower torque than a good thread, so a cautious and sympathetic touch is required not a ham-fisted one.


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## Gunk (30 Jan 2021)

I’ve never failed to get one off, but I’ve often had to support the chain wheel and hit the spindle with a punch.


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## Big John (30 Jan 2021)

This may or may not help, assuming you haven't already solved it.

What we do at work (bike charity where I'm a volunteer mechanic) is slip a round headed bolt (one you might find in a brake pad) into the spindle end. It just fits loosely i.e. don't thread it in. Then get the inner part of your crank extractor tool virtually screwed all the way out to give you a bit more room. Then screw the outer part of the tool into the crank arm, finger right to start with (for god's sake don't cross thread it!) Then when you're sure it's threaded properly make sure you tighten it as far into the crank arm as it'll go THEN begin to tighten the inner bit until you feel it hitting the lose bolt you put in. Now you're ready to give it some beans, even using a pipe extender on the spanner if necessary. We work on some seriously old, very poorly maintained bikes and I can't think of an occasion when we didn't get at least the cranks off. I'm not great at written instructions, I'm more used to showing folks and they see for themselves how it's done but if you can understand my ramblings it does work. What's critical though is that you don't cross thread anything otherwise you're in proper trouble. Good luck 👍


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## 12boy (30 Jan 2021)

That bike looks pretty good to me. If you haven't thought of this already...
Take off the cables and cable housing and take them to your LBS. Cable housing is a lot cheaper by the foot. With any luck, when you buy the cable and housing they will cut it for free. Don't forget to buy some cable ends and ferrules for the housing.
There are rust treatment products that create a polymercoating that will protect from future rust pretty well.
I would spring for a cartridge bearing bottom bracket. I've had good luck with Shimano UN55 ones but make sure you get the same length as the old one. I have some, still working fine after tens of thousands of miles.
You can buy many things cheaper on Amazon and Ebay, but I've done well by spending a few bucks more at my LBS who happily will fix something they've sold me or give good advice.
Bikes usually use 8, 10, 12 , 13, 14 , and 15 mm wrenches and 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8mm Allen wrenches. Sets of cone wrenches are very useful for hub rebuilds. I buy 8 oz tins of auto lithium grease and I grease seaposts, handlebar stems, bolts, bottom bracket threads, and anything else except bottom bracket spindles which I use clean but dry. Ball bearings are cheap so I get new when rebuilding hubs and headsets. 
Consider taking phone pics as you go along to make reassembly easier.
Lots of rags and little receptacles are good to have around. Keep the parts for one thing in one little jar or tin and the parts for another in a different tin. Strong magnets can help you with removing or replacing ball bearings which bounce like crazy on hard flooring.
Lastly read the old threads in this section of the forum. Whatever problem you encounter has been addressed before.
BTW, rebuilding/restoring old bikes is addictive as you will see when you learn the same guys on here always have a new project or two..7 days without a little bike refurbish makes one week.


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## dmgraham8 (20 Feb 2021)

Hullo all,

Can anyone suggest a good value crankset that would be in keeping with this age of Raleigh bike?


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## Bonefish Blues (20 Feb 2021)

XD2 from Spa is great value


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## 12boy (20 Feb 2021)

What is wrong with the existing crank arms? If getting rid of the small chain ring is the probem just take it off. You can examine the inside of the crankarm where it fits over the spindle. If one has been taken on and off a lot, you will see the flat wear part getting very close to the exterior of the crank arm. If not, that's ok. If there are no cracks in the crank arm and the pedal threading is in good shape they can be polished up and be fine.


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## dmgraham8 (13 Mar 2021)

12boy said:


> That bike looks pretty good to me. If you haven't thought of this already...
> Take off the cables and cable housing and take them to your LBS. Cable housing is a lot cheaper by the foot. With any luck, when you buy the cable and housing they will cut it for free. Don't forget to buy some cable ends and ferrules for the housing.
> There are rust treatment products that create a polymercoating that will protect from future rust pretty well.
> I would spring for a cartridge bearing bottom bracket. I've had good luck with Shimano UN55 ones but make sure you get the same length as the old one. I have some, still working fine after tens of thousands of miles.
> ...


Thanks very much 12boy. Lots of useful tips! I am almost finished with my first ever rebuild and will post some pictures soon. I decided to keep the crankset....


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## dmgraham8 (13 Mar 2021)

Big John said:


> This may or may not help, assuming you haven't already solved it.
> 
> What we do at work (bike charity where I'm a volunteer mechanic) is slip a round headed bolt (one you might find in a brake pad) into the spindle end. It just fits loosely i.e. don't thread it in. Then get the inner part of your crank extractor tool virtually screwed all the way out to give you a bit more room. Then screw the outer part of the tool into the crank arm, finger right to start with (for god's sake don't cross thread it!) Then when you're sure it's threaded properly make sure you tighten it as far into the crank arm as it'll go THEN begin to tighten the inner bit until you feel it hitting the lose bolt you put in. Now you're ready to give it some beans, even using a pipe extender on the spanner if necessary. We work on some seriously old, very poorly maintained bikes and I can't think of an occasion when we didn't get at least the cranks off. I'm not great at written instructions, I'm more used to showing folks and they see for themselves how it's done but if you can understand my ramblings it does work. What's critical though is that you don't cross thread anything otherwise you're in proper trouble. Good luck 👍


Thank you Big John!


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## Ajax Bay (13 Mar 2021)

dmgraham8 said:


> Can anyone suggest a good value crankset that would be in keeping with this age of Raleigh bike?


Came here after you gave me the link.
The *SR Sakae* chainset looks fine to me, and I think 'entry level' is a bit harsh. Yes, it's not Super Record.
Be aware that the BCD of large and middle ring is odd (118mm) and there are few chainrings around (I have this or very similar on a 1981 bike but a double not a triple).
As bb said, SPA Cycles for an aesthetic replacement (if you feel it's needed) - I have one of the XD2s waiting to go on a 'build'.
As far as wheels, key point is that the rear wheel must have 126mm OLN and you can get a 7sp but better go with a 6sp freewheel (obv). A 14-28 6sp will be easy and cheap to buy and the triple inner gives you the low gearing needed.
Rims and hubs must be 'silver'.


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## Gunk (13 Mar 2021)

Ajax Bay said:


> Rims and hubs must be 'silver'.



I’ve done a couple with modern black rimmed wheels, they look good.


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## Bonefish Blues (13 Mar 2021)

I reckon that proves the need for silver


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## 12boy (13 Mar 2021)

Those two bikes colors look like twin brothers of different mothers.


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## dave r (13 Mar 2021)

Gunk said:


> I’ve done a couple with modern black rimmed wheels, they look good.
> 
> View attachment 578405
> 
> ...



I like those two.


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