# Wheels?



## lulubel (15 Oct 2012)

I'd like to get an extra wheelset for my Surly Crosscheck that will take up to 40mm tyres without risking damage to the rims, so an inside rim width of 19/20mm. I'm finding the whole thing very confusing, so can anyone suggest anything? I don't want to spend a fortune - up to £250, preferably less - and strength is more important than weight, although strong and light would obviously be a bonus!

I can build my own wheels, but I'm struggling for time at the moment, so I'd rather buy them ready made unless I can get the components for an amazing price if I build myself.


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## VamP (15 Oct 2012)

Velocity rims are really highly rated by the CX community, I am assuming you are looking for clincher rather than tubular? The A23 clincher or Major Tom tub (same wide 23mm profile) are the ones most people would use - do they appeal?

You can buy them as made up wheelset from people like Strada, although I am not sure what the shipping implications would be for you. Is this for road or off road use?


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## lulubel (16 Oct 2012)

A bit of a mixture of surfaces really - we have quite a lot of "roads" round here that are just hardcore that's smoothed off and flattened down once a year, and you need to run a wider, softer tyre to get any grip on it - but nothing really rocky or uneven because I've got the MTB for that.

The Surly is also going to become my workhorse bike, since I haven't got room to store 3 bikes, so they'll be used for shopping trips, and I also hope to use them as my touring wheels in the future. I don't think the need to carry more weight should make a great deal of difference to how tough they need to be, though, since I only weigh 7st 7lb to start with!

I've sent Strada a message and told them all that, so I'll see what they think about it. The price of the wheels looks reasonable for handbuilts, so I'll just have to see what the shipping cost would be.


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## Howard (16 Oct 2012)

Do you really need 40mm tyers? If you can go to 35mm any old Mavic Open Pro wheelset will do.
Otherwise I'd imagine 700c touring wheels would be more suitable than 'cross racing wheels. Mavic 719s laced to Shimano XT hubs?


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## lulubel (17 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> You can buy them as made up wheelset from people like Strada, although I am not sure what the shipping implications would be for you. Is this for road or off road use?


 
Have you used Strada before? I'm just wondering what their service is like because I sent them a message through their contact form yesterday morning, and haven't heard back yet.



Howard said:


> Do you really need 40mm tyers? If you can go to 35mm any old Mavic Open Pro wheelset will do.
> Otherwise I'd imagine 700c touring wheels would be more suitable than 'cross racing wheels. Mavic 719s laced to Shimano XT hubs?


 
I'd have wider if I could fit them on the bike. I need grip on loose, dry surfaces, so I need them wide and I need to be able to run them soft.

I'm not looking at touring wheels because I don't need that kind of strength, and it seems stupid to haul the extra weight around when I don't need it. I know at least one member of this forum uses wheels with 19mm inside rims for cross, so I figured this was the place to ask.


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## VamP (17 Oct 2012)

Friends have and found them excellent. Not sure how good their website is.

I was going to get them to build me a couple of Uncle Tom's wheelsets last year but ultimately that plan foundered on finances. Ended up shipping a cheap pair of tub sets from Czech Republic of all places.


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## Howard (17 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> I'm not looking at touring wheels because I don't need that kind of strength, and it seems stupid to haul the extra weight around when I don't need it.


 
You may appreciate the extra spoke count though if you intend on touring them. A 28 spoke count wheel will likely pringle if you pop a spoke with a touring load - with a 36 you'll make it to the LBS.Yes - you can get a major tom /a23 in 32 spoke but honestly at that point the weight saving will be so minimal (100g per rim) you might as well go for an A719.

Also I'd imagine there would be greater availability and lower price would be appealing too.You can get a pair on ebay for about £230. And everyone carries spares for shimano hubs etc...


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## lulubel (17 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> Friends have and found them excellent. Not sure how good their website is.


 
I'll give them until tomorrow, and then chase them up. I'd rather communicate through free emails than pay for phone calls.



Howard said:


> You may appreciate the extra spoke count though if you intend on touring them. A 28 spoke count wheel will likely pringle if you pop a spoke with a touring load - with a 36 you'll make it to the LBS.Yes - you can get a major tom /a23 in 32 spoke but honestly at that point the weight saving will be so minimal (100g per rim) you might as well go for an A719.


 
That's true, but the consensus on the touring forum seems to be that most people don't need 36 spokes unless they're doing "heavy" tours, which I wouldn't be, and at my weight, even with 40lb of stuff, the total load on the bike would still be less than a lot of people weigh before they add a load. And if I break a spoke, I'll replace it and re-true the wheel. That's far quicker and easier than limping to an lbs and waiting (and paying) for someone else to do it.


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## Howard (24 Oct 2012)

Aaaaaaanyway - just ordered some racing wheels - Major Toms on Novatec disc hubs - from Strada - let's see how they got on!


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## Christopher (24 Oct 2012)

re the OP, how about Shimano Sora/Tiagra on Mavic A319s? 32 hole SS DB spokes. Assuming you have Shimano or Sram that is. Those rims & spoke count will be strong enough, they are for me and I am almost twice your weight. Wide rims, should take 40s okay, they certainly take 32s in style.

I can't seem to find Shimano-pattern hubs that are light for less than ££££ - Hope Monos are over £100 for just the rear hub for example. Spa Cycles do Ambrosio Zenith hubs at £77 the pair that collectively weigh 382g http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s117p2005 according to them, that's lighter than a Shimano Ultegra 6500 rear hub by itself BUT I have no idea how good a hub it is. Point I am making is that it is very difficult to build your own strong light wheels in Shimano pattern without spending a fortune. CRC have a Sun-Ringle road hub for about £77 as well but I bought a Eco II hub off them and either it is missing parts or is extremely poorly designed so I can't recommend anything by Sun.

Spa will build those Ambrosio hubs into a wheelset. They do other combinations as well of course. I do not know how good Spa are at wheels or whether they will ship to Spain. Good luck!


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## PpPete (24 Oct 2012)

Christopher said:


> Point I am making is that it is very difficult to build your own strong light wheels in Shimano pattern without spending a fortune.


Sorry but that is nonsense.
Tiagra hubs on Chrina - or on of the slightly wider Rigida rims (either from Spa, or home built) would come in at just over half your budget.
Another place I'd be looking for ready made wheels is Rose in Germany.

Or if you can spare the time to build... The Hope Pro 3 hubs are utterly brilliant.... put most of the budget there and buy cheapish rims.
Oh yes, and you might not "need" 36 spokes but they won't hurt you either.
I think I might be looking at Rose's R-490 rim next time (looks like the DT Swiss RR465 but 36 hole)
That would take a Schwalbe CX Pro 700c x 30 quite well, which is man enough for most purposes


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## VamP (25 Oct 2012)

Howard said:


> Aaaaaaanyway - just ordered some racing wheels - Major Toms on Novatec disc hubs - from Strada - let's see how they got on!


 
Jeez moving to discs too. Worth a thread in it's own right detailing your experiences. Should be great wheels.


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## Christopher (25 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> Sorry but that is nonsense.
> _[snip]_


 It isn't. Weights: Tiagra rear hub 348g, 105 same weight (2004 model), Ultegra 2007 410g. For Campag rear : Centuar 260g, Mirage 2007 303g, Record 231g. To beat the weight of the Record in Shimano pattern you'd have to spend serious cash on a DT Swiss, American Classic, or Tune hub. Only economic hub that I know of that is even close is the Ambrosio one above. Depends on your definition of 'light' I guess. Less than 1kg for a rear wheel is mine (does not include skewer, tube or tyre though).

Anyway I agree with everything else you say. Only drawback is don't Hope rear hubs make a very loud noise when freewheeling? The OP might not mind that though.


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## VamP (25 Oct 2012)

Christopher said:


> It isn't. Weights: Tiagra rear hub 348g, 105 same weight (2004 model), Ultegra 2007 410g. For Campag rear : Centuar 260g, Mirage 2007 303g, Record 231g. To beat the weight of the Record in Shimano pattern you'd have to spend serious cash on a DT Swiss, American Classic, or Tune hub. Only economic hub that I know of that is even close is the Ambrosio one above. Depends on your definition of 'light' I guess. Less than 1kg for a rear wheel is mine *(does not include skewer, tube or tyre though).*
> 
> Anyway I agree with everything else you say. Only drawback is don't Hope rear hubs make a very loud noise when freewheeling? The OP might not mind that though.


 

...or cassette I hope.


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## Howard (25 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> Jeez moving to discs too. Worth a thread in it's own right detailing your experiences. Should be great wheels.


That's a good idea. I already run a couple of disc wheelsets but with a canti brake on the back. I'll probably go for a full disc frame next year. Van Dessel is the only contender so far that ticks all the boxes; Disc & Canti + BB30.


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## VamP (25 Oct 2012)

Howard said:


> That's a good idea. I already run a couple of disc wheelsets but with a canti brake on the back. I'll probably go for a full disc frame next year. Van Dessel is the only contender so far that ticks all the boxes; Disc & Canti + BB30.


 

A friend races the Full Tilt Boogie. Loves it.


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## Howard (25 Oct 2012)

Mmm yes - it's probably going to be that or the G&T.


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## lulubel (25 Oct 2012)

Christopher said:


> Spa will build those Ambrosio hubs into a wheelset. They do other combinations as well of course. I do not know how good Spa are at wheels or whether they will ship to Spain. Good luck!


 
Spa won't build anything for me. They refused to even quote me for shipping to Spain because it's "too expensive", I assume they're very busy and don't need the work.

Strada didn't even reply to my message. I assume they're also very busy and don't need the work.

I've just bought some factory built wheels from Wiggle for now. They'll do for the day to day stuff, and I'll have to think again when it comes to touring. It will cost me more money in the long run, but I never thought cycling was a cheap hobby.


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## PpPete (25 Oct 2012)

Christopher said:


> It isn't. Weights: Tiagra rear hub 348g, 105 same weight (2004 model), Ultegra 2007 410g. For Campag rear : Centuar 260g, Mirage 2007 303g, Record 231g. To beat the weight of the Record in Shimano pattern you'd have to spend serious cash on a DT Swiss, American Classic, or Tune hub. Only economic hub that I know of that is even close is the Ambrosio one above. Depends on your definition of 'light' I guess. Less than 1kg for a rear wheel is mine (does not include skewer, tube or tyre though).
> 
> Anyway I agree with everything else you say. Only drawback is don't Hope rear hubs make a very loud noise when freewheeling? The OP might not mind that though.


 
Fair enough on weights. As you say, depends on definition of "light", I wasn't in "weight-weenie" mode as we were talking about wheels that could take big tyres for rough surfaces. And the weight difference between a 30mm and a 40mm tyre is likely to be more than the difference in hub weights to which you allude, it's rotating weight too so more significant effect.

Hope freehub noise? You can certainly hear it, but it's not a banshee wail like you hear on the yuo tube clips of some of the American ones. More of loud "buzzzzz". It gets a little bit quieter after the first few 100km, but still excellent for warning pedestrians on cycle paths. I think if you freewheel often for short periods it might get irritating, but I ride fixed day to day, so I'm used to keeping the legs turning. You'd think the noise would soak up energy somehow... but freewheeling downhill they roll better than any silent hub I've come across - with added advantage the guy in front know you are coming up on him.


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## lulubel (25 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> with added advantage the guy in front know you are coming up on him.


 
I like noisy freehubs for exactly that reason


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## Christopher (30 Oct 2012)

Sorry to hear that about Spa, lulubel. What an annoying attitude from them - and from Strada too. But I hope you have enough information so you can sort some decent touring wheels out eventually.

Fair enough about freehub noise, my Shimano ones are so quiet it is dangerous. I have just taken apart a wheel with a Sun hub whose freehub was so noisy it drove me crazy. I am mothballing the hub 'cause I can't adjust it properly after damaging it - cones loosened off and I damaged the pawls. Hub is pretty much junk...


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## Paul.G. (9 Jan 2013)

Fulcrum Racing 7's - had a pair on my cross bike for just over 2 years and boy have they been abused, brilliant wheels.


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## lulubel (19 Jan 2013)

Paul.G. said:


> Fulcrum Racing 7's - had a pair on my cross bike for just over 2 years and boy have they been abused, brilliant wheels.


 
I ended up with a set of Racing 5 CX, and they seem to be doing the job nicely for what I need at the moment. I don't think I'd be confident to tour on wheels with such a low spoke count, though.


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## Paul.G. (19 Jan 2013)

Cool, as I said in my original reply, my fulcrum wheels have been through hell on my cross bike, everything from loaded rack/pannier rides along rough uneven canal paths to full blown CX sportive rides, you certainly made a good choice.


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## Howard (19 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> I ended up with a set of Racing 5 CX, and they seem to be doing the job nicely for what I need at the moment. I don't think I'd be confident to tour on wheels with such a low spoke count, though.


 
Touring: it's not the count that you have to worry about - it's whether the spokes are proprietary or not. If so, and you pop one, you may make it to a helpful bike store, but they may not be able to help you...

Bring spare spokes.


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## lulubel (20 Jan 2013)

Howard said:


> Touring: it's not the count that you have to worry about - it's whether the spokes are proprietary or not. If so, and you pop one, you may make it to a helpful bike store, but they may not be able to help you...
> 
> Bring spare spokes.


 
As I said in an earlier post, if I have a problem, I'll replace my own spokes. I still wouldn't tour on wheels with less than 32 spokes, though. The spoke count does affect how much abuse a wheel can take.


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