# Steel framed hard tail for <£1000



## GrumpyGregry (21 Apr 2009)

read thru this thread

Bike to work scheme anniversary coming up fast. have a road going tourer for commute and tarmac fun so this time I'm looking for a purely off road bike. Surrey Hills, South Downs, Quantocks and Mid- and South-Wales will be its playground, won't be used to commute or go shopping and my style of riding is what used to be called XC back in the day.

Seeking recommendations for steel framed hardtail with disc brakes with good frame clearances to suit UK trail conditions, robustness a priority over light weight, I'm a big lad and bend/break lightweight components. Not convinced a good enough FS bike can be had for the money and I have a fetish for steel hard tails!


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## GilesM (21 Apr 2009)

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2009bikes/bike.php?model_id=92

Just creeps in under £1000, I think you are right about a full sus for this money.


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## Mr Pig (21 Apr 2009)

link

Saves typing ;0)


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## mondobongo (21 Apr 2009)

Get the P7 awesome bike, loved mine so fast and nimble on singletrack and loves rock gardens as well.


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## 02GF74 (21 Apr 2009)

just curious but why steel? move with the times man, I suppose next you'll be wanting a penny farthing!

and how heavy is heavy?!?!


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## Radius (21 Apr 2009)

Another brand to look at is Charge, the "Blender" for example


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## GrumpyGregry (21 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions keep 'em coming...

P7 already on long list
Charge Duster could make it on there but I think a Blender might struggle on the uphills with that geometry and short cockpit
Will put Merlin Rock Lobster on long list as well

02GF74: Steel vs Ali? Like I said it is a fetish; for me it is simply the aesthetic of thin(ner) steel tubes vs thick(er) ali ones. Simply not yet seen a non-steel framed bike I could afford that I wanted to own and ali market dominance is, in my view, as much fashion as it is function. Not into heavy, I'm almost always more overweight than any of my bikes, but broke an awful lot of chi-chi expensive light weight stuff back in the day so robustness is more important to me than lightness. What is it they used to say? "Affordable, strong, or light; pick any two!" Besides if I went with the times wouldn't I be riding a SS 29-er?


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## Radius (21 Apr 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> Charge Duster could make it on there but I think a Blender might struggle on the uphills with that geometry and short cockpit



Was going to say Duster but thought you might want to keep it as expensive as possible to get the benefit of C2W


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## GrumpyGregry (21 Apr 2009)

Radius said:


> Was going to say Duster but thought you might want to keep it as expensive as possible to get the benefit of C2W



can always make up the difference with kit like I did last year


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## User482 (22 Apr 2009)

02GF74 said:


> just curious but why steel? move with the times man, I suppose next you'll be wanting a penny farthing!
> 
> and how heavy is heavy?!?!



Steel frame is typically 1lb heavier than alu, so a 27lb instead of 26lb bike. Big deal! Then there's the elegance of thin tubes, and compliant ride quality. Plus ease of repair if you break it.


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## 02GF74 (22 Apr 2009)

User482 said:


> Steel frame is typically 1lb heavier than alu, so a 27lb instead of 26lb bike. Big deal!



for some it is a big deal.

fair plays, if you want steel frame, who I am to stand in your way?

my commuter is steel framed saracen kilicomp (all others are aluminiium)


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## User482 (22 Apr 2009)

02GF74 said:


> for some it is a big deal.
> 
> fair plays, if you want steel frame, who I am to stand in your way?



If you're worried about a 4% weight difference on an MTB then you need to get out more.

I have 2 MTBs - 1 hardtail with steel frame and 1 alu full sus. Each has differing pros and cons, but to suggest that steel has nothing to offer in terms of modern bike design is ludicrous.


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## jay (22 Apr 2009)

FWIW I looked at buying Merlin Rock Lobster 853 about 18 months ago, went to see them in the shop and they looked really nice, good spec and I was all set to hand over the money... But the guy in the shop said they were quite flexy even for steel and not really suitable for someone my size. (6'3 & 15stone)

I ended up doing a Cove Handjob custom build instead but seriously looked at Genesis Altitudes as well.


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## Mr Pig (22 Apr 2009)

jay said:


> But the guy in the shop said they were quite flexy even for steel and not really suitable for someone my size. (6'3 & 15stone)



I'm about 15 stone and my Altitude is fine. 

On the steel, aluminum debate I agree that there's no right or wrong answer. All I would say is that after riding a steel MTB I'll be buying another one next time too. It just feels better.


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## 02GF74 (23 Apr 2009)

yeah, ^^^ beware of ulta light and flimsy steel frames - a few years ago, someone - Chas Roberts? was doing the dogsbollx frame - know someone who had one and it came apart, and he was tiny!!


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## jay (23 Apr 2009)

Thinking about it, I didn't buy my Cove after looking at the steel Rock Lobster - I bought a alu Rock Lobster instead. It was a really nice light build, about 25lbs but just a tiny bit too small really.

So then I bought the Cove and swapped all the parts over and the difference was unbelievable - even though the Cove build came in about 1.5lb heavier (and this was all in the frame) it felt so much faster and more comfortable.

I'd never go back to an alu hardtail again tbh - I'd either get high end steel or ti. Personally I'd always thought the whole "steel is real" thing were just talking bollox but there is definately a difference.


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## JonGW (23 Apr 2009)

On One 456?


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## adski (29 Apr 2009)

on one inbred ,double and triple butted tubes for a paltry 185 smackers !


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## Black Sheep (4 May 2009)

on-one inbred
or on-one inbred 456 if you like a longer travel fork.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 May 2009)

Ok, so now I'm guily of moving the goal posts a bit. Current short list is

Steel
on one inbred
orange P7

Ali (shock horror shouldn't have gone to Halfords or read any mountain bike magazines over the weekend)

Boardman Pro HT
EBC Shadow Mountain


current fave is the Boardman Pro HT though I've only seen the Team in the flesh.....


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## Mr Pig (4 May 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> current fave is the Boardman Pro HT though



Looks like a nice bike, if not very ferrous ;0)


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## GrumpyGregry (4 May 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> Looks like a nice bike, if not very ferrous ;0)



when I picked the team version up it was so light I nearly went over backwards. and the pro is even lighter! but not.. very.. ferrous.. at all..


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## Mr Pig (4 May 2009)

Oh lightness is good. My last bike was quite a bit lighter than the Genesis and it was faster. It just depends what you want it for. To me, being the fastest isn't the be all and end all. After an hour on my last bike I was really glad to get off. The steel bike is much more forgiving and I'm much happier to stay on it. 

Out in the fields though I could chuck the lighter bike on my shoulder and climb over fences carrying it. That's not so easy now. It's all swings and roundabouts. For me the top dog would be a really light steel bike! ;0)


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## Black Sheep (4 May 2009)

if weight is a concern and your wanting steel my inbred weighs less than my old hardrock used to!

don't know about the orange your thinking of tho


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## GrumpyGregry (5 May 2009)

Pushing tin said:


> if weight is a concern and your wanting steel my inbred weighs less than my old hardrock used to!
> 
> don't know about the orange your thinking of tho



P7


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## GrumpyGregry (5 May 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> Oh lightness is good. My last bike was quite a bit lighter than the Genesis and it was faster. It just depends what you want it for. To me, being the fastest isn't the be all and end all. After an hour on my last bike I was really glad to get off. The steel bike is much more forgiving and I'm much happier to stay on it.
> 
> Out in the fields though I could chuck the lighter bike on my shoulder and climb over fences carrying it. That's not so easy now. It's all swings and roundabouts. For me the top dog would be a really light steel bike! ;0)



My yardstick is my old steel rockhopper. 12 years after getting it and the main frame has taken everything I've thrown at it and is still going strong. But it is the sole remaining component from the original rigid bike. The forks were substituted for some Paces but everything else was replaced with the first three years as it broke or wore out. (The day the bars snapped up on plynlimon was a gas)

I want a bike I can ride all day uphill and down dale (well down Down given where I live) - day after day without it breaking and which can cope with UK mud, esp of the clay variety better than the 'hopper does (though narrow mud tyres help a lot) on trailquest and polaris type stuff in the winter.

Some recent experience has informed my thinking a bit. Last Summer I holidayed in the Austrian Alps. I hired a local custom build ali bike for three days built by the bloke who owned the hire shop - best HT I've ever ridden. On the longest day I did 75 kms in total about 1/3 climbing and 2/3rds descending on fire roads and single track- took a battering as I expected from an HT - but didn't feel beaten up like I had done in years gone by on an ali bike. over the three days I did about 150 off road km and about 50 on road.

maybe it is time to overcome my prejudice against ali MTB's esp if Mr Darling is going to help me buy one.


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## Black Sheep (6 May 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> My yardstick is my old steel rockhopper. 12 years after getting it and the main frame has taken everything I've thrown at it and is still going strong. But it is the sole remaining component from the original rigid bike. The forks were substituted for some Paces but everything else was replaced with the first three years as it broke or wore out. (The day the bars snapped up on plynlimon was a gas)
> 
> I want a bike I can ride all day uphill and down dale (well down Down given where I live) - day after day without it breaking and which can cope with UK mud, esp of the clay variety better than the 'hopper does (though narrow mud tyres help a lot) on trailquest and polaris type stuff in the winter.
> 
> ...





Inbred, Inbred, Inbred, Inbred.


my inbred replaced a hardrock and was much better and nicer to ride than that and my friends rockhopper 

its got a classic mountain bike geometry

I run 2inch wide trail tyres and 2.5 inch wide DH tyres on it and its got plenty of mud clearance, mine is singlespeed built on a geared frame (tensioner) and i've done 20+ miles on road, all day rides across the lake district on a variety of forrest road, bridalways, and "ooh, where does this go" trails. 

the seat stays width is about 8cm the chainstays width is about 7.5 - plenty of space for a huge tyre and a fair bit of mud in there. 

there's a trail near my parent's house that i'd started to avoid due to how harsh it was to ride on the hardrock, i now go out of my way to ride it on the inbred cos it feels sooo good to ride down, the bike is alive and flowing with me, its great.

as you can tell, i'm rather fond of mine, i've called it Izzy and my fiancee recognises her as part of the family


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## GrumpyGregry (6 May 2009)

Pushing tin said:


> Inbred, Inbred, Inbred, Inbred.



I can see the attraction but... I can't see how to get a decent spec FS and disc braked one for less than a grand

*
*


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## Mr Pig (6 May 2009)

Pushing tin said:


> my inbred replaced a hardrock and was much better and nicer to ride than that and my friends rockhopper



My experience is quite similar. You're likely to have this bike for a while so take your time and get it right. I tried a Genesis Altitude and Specialized Rockhopper back to back and dismissed the Rockhopper in seconds. 

Buying one type of bike over an other based on the kind of brakes you can get on it is rather short sighted. The frame material and geometry will make a far bigger difference and are much more important. You really need to track down some of the bikes you're considering and try them. The equipment list only tells you part of the story.

Incidentally, you'll get an Altitude made out of really good steel for under a grand. The geometry is very similar to the other trail-focused bikes mentioned:

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/products.php?plid=m15b7s2p2284&rs=gb


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## GrumpyGregry (6 May 2009)

Sound advice. I suspect the debate over the performance of ali vs steel is as yet unresolved and will stay that way for the foreseeable future. Some steel bikes are rubbish as are some ali ones - I think it depends on how the bike is built more than what the frame is made of. Of course geometry is king of all; I'm focusing on XC hardtails rather than hard hitters as that riding isn't my style.

As for brakes - I wouldn't by a rim braked bike again ever unless it was a sunny dry Sunday afternoon road going piece of exotica; even my tourer has disc brakes as I like stopping


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## Black Sheep (7 May 2009)

GrumpyGreg said:


> I can see the attraction but... I can't see how to get a decent spec FS and disc braked one for less than a grand
> 
> *
> *



admittedly i've not looked at spec or price lists for a while, mine was a custom build 

just had a look at the spec list, might be worth having a word with your local bike shop about getting the frame and having them build the bike from parts you source, some of which via them.

my build is inbred frame, deore disks, hope xc hubs mavic rims, marzocchi mx comps, it would have a deore groupset if i had gears

the bike shop valued it for insurance at being about £1000 to build it from new parts.


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