# Olympic RR - Women (spoilers etc)



## thom (28 Jul 2012)

I didn't see the women's race mentioned in the other thread so it seems appropriate to have a dedicated thread. 
Nicole Cooke delivered last time - this year I heard they'll hedge their bets and ride aggressively allowing Cooke to try for a break and Armitstead for a reduced bunch sprint : http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/24/london-2012-nicole-cooke-cycling?INTCMP=SRCH
I'll be on the Mall - I just hope there's a bit more info than today !


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## dragon72 (28 Jul 2012)

Just as long as they have a Plan B!!


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## thom (28 Jul 2012)

dragon72 said:


> Just as long as they have a Plan B!!


Well that's what the Guardian article suggested, which is contrary to all the other reports I heard. 
It's a bit of a different race because GB don't have the fastest sprinter out there and they'll want to eliminate people like Marianne Vos from the equation.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2012)

I think it's more a case that the team will have one plan and Cooke will have another...


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## yello (28 Jul 2012)

dragon72 said:


> Just as long as they have a Plan B!!


 
Do the have a Plan A???  (and I am being flippant, honest)

Sadly, I'm not going to be able to watch. I have to (i.e. my wife says so) go to a wedding anniversary party tomorrow afternoon. Personally, if it were just me, I'd watch the cycling... but it's not just me!


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think it's more a case that the team will have one plan and Cooke will have another...


To win, hopefully.

One of my favourite riders.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> To win, hopefully.
> 
> One of my favourite riders.


 
Mine too. Unfortunately, much like Tommy Voeckler, the feeling is not shared by the peloton.


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Mine too. Unfortunately, much like Tommy Voeckler, the feeling is not shared by the peloton.


I gathered that she's not Miss Popular. Why?


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> I gathered that she's not Miss Popular. Why?


She's single minded and does not suffer fools.


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## yello (28 Jul 2012)

I guess, in fairness, she is from a different era (and I don't mean that in negative way). For many years, she pretty much was UK women's cycling. Her successes are undeniable. Her, er, 'headstrongness' is well known and partly the reason for her successes. She's a talented and gutsy rider... just maybe not a team player unless it's her team. She probably finds it difficult to pass over the baton.


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> She's single minded and does not suffer fools.


But the likes of Armistead & co are hardly fools. Cooke has never really been part of the Cycling GB setup either, has she? It seems odd that someone as good as her, even if she is a poor team player, seems to be on the margins.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> But the likes of Armistead & co are hardly fools. Cooke has never really been part of the Cycling GB setup either, has she? It seems odd that someone as good as her, even if she is a poor team player, seems to be on the margins.


She didn't come through the system like the others though. Herself and David Millar are the last of the "Foreign Legion" who went out and did it on their own bat.


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> She didn't come through the system like the others though. Herself and David Millar are the last of the "Foreign Legion" who went out and did it on their own bat.


But Millar seems to have no problem with the setup or with working as a team player. Hasn't she also changed teams more frequently than I've changed my pants?


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## yello (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> She didn't come through the system like the others though. Herself and David Millar are the last of the "Foreign Legion" who went out and did it on their own bat.


 
You said it so much better than I did!


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> But Millar seems to have no problem with the setup or with working as a team player. Hasn't she also changed teams more frequently than I've changed my pants?


Millar is a team player. Cooke is a winner.


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Millar is a team player. Cooke is a winner.


Harsh on Miller there?


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Millar is a team player. Cooke is a winner.


See also Cavendish carrying bottles in the TdF. You can surely be a teamplayer AND a winner.


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## Andrew_Culture (28 Jul 2012)

Looking forward to this!


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2012)

It's pretty much the same reason as Voeckler is unpopular. She is a very individual rider who always rides her own race, goes with her gut, rides her heart out, and is hard on herself and everyone else. She's neither a conventional team-player nor a tactician. But she has the added problem, which is bizarre but unfortunately still the case in this day and age, that she isn't a 'girly girl', she is, to quote an ex-British Cycling person of my acquaintance, "an animal." And that means that, basically, she doesn't fit in.

But she's probably the most purely talented, instinctive and hard-working female rider GB has had for years. I think she's fantastic, and I wish women's pro-cycling had the levels of investment that would have meant a greater variety of teams and opportunities and for her specifically, a greater continuity and the backing of a particular set-up (like Voeckler has found with Vendee/BlB/Europcar) that would have allowed her to flourish.


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## thom (28 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> But she's probably the most purely talented, instinctive and hard-working female rider GB has had for years. I think she's fantastic, and I wish women's pro-cycling had the levels of investment that would have meant a greater variety of teams and opportunities and for her specifically, a greater continuity and the backing of a particular set-up (like Voeckler has found with Vendee/BlB/Europcar) that would have allowed her to flourish.


Her scream when she won in Beijing is one of the abiding memories I have of those games.
It was brilliant and Emma Pooley's TT silver medal was great too.
Let's see how things go tomorrow. I feel that Armitstead has a better chance to get something then Cooke but I'll be supporting both!


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's pretty much the same reason as Voeckler is unpopular. She is a very individual rider who always rides her own race, goes with her gut, rides her heart out, and is hard on herself and everyone else. She's neither a conventional team-player nor a tactician. But she has the added problem, which is bizarre but unfortunately still the case in this day and age, that she isn't a 'girly girl', she is, to quote an ex-British Cycling person of my acquaintance, "an animal." And that means that, basically, she doesn't fit in.
> 
> But she's probably the most purely talented, instinctive and hard-working female rider GB has had for years. I think she's fantastic, and I wish women's pro-cycling had the levels of investment that would have meant a greater variety of teams and opportunities and for her specifically, a greater continuity and the backing of a particular set-up (like Voeckler has found with Vendee/BlB/Europcar) that would have allowed her to flourish.


I thought Voeckler was unpopular because he takes the piss in breakaways and plays to the camera? Perhaps it's more because her team mates simply can't trust her and cycling is a team game, even for committed individualists. Hopefully there will be a book or two written on her in the future because it's fascinating.


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## thom (29 Jul 2012)

Rain forecasted for tomorrow. I guess with the possibility of falls, this can help a break-away stay away.


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## Keith Oates (29 Jul 2012)

I'll be very happy if there is a GB winner tomorrow, but I'll be even happier if it's Nicole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

Does the race start at the same time as yesterday? I.e 10am?


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## rvw (29 Jul 2012)

12 noon.


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

rvw said:


> 12 noon.



Ta star!


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

Sorry to be totally helpless, but as the ladies' race starts two hours later than the mens' race does it end at 6pm instead of 4pm?


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## thom (29 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Sorry to be totally helpless, but as the ladies' race starts two hours later than the mens' race does it end at 6pm instead of 4pm?


 

No, there are fewer circuits of Box Hill. Finishing time all depends on how fast they decide to race but Radio 5 are telling people their coverage will be from 3.30 pm


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

I was planning on gong out for a ride, but I guess I could postpone 


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## aJohnson (29 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> No, there are fewer circuits of Box Hill. Finishing time all depends on how fast they decide to race but Radio 5 are telling people their coverage will be from 3.30 pm


 
Yeah, it's only 140km and there's only 2 circuits of Box Hill.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (29 Jul 2012)

Sat roadside near donkey green already. Weather not as good as yesterday. A team gb medal would make the hike down from Glasgow all worthwhile.


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## swansonj (29 Jul 2012)

I'm at Box Hill today - Doormouse Drive - watched the men go past our house yesterday.


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

15oC on Box Hill!

They started with a helluva lot of pep didn't they! Tons of smiles and laughs between the riders too!


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

Im following Clara Hughes on strava so will be interesting to see her times for today! 

On a more patriotic note, here's for a great finish for team gb

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## lordloveaduck (29 Jul 2012)

Just a quick rant.

Those two presenter chaps on the BBC are getting on my 'bits'. Why the blue blazes do they have to keep going on about the
chaps race, and why do they have to keep on playing down the size and the riders of the women's race.

There just doing the route and size that the Olympic chaps said that they can do (which i think is pants)
For crying out loud give those ladies the appreciation that they deserve.


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

lordloveaduck said:


> Just a quick rant.
> 
> Those two presenter chaps on the BBC are getting on my 'bits'. Why the blue blazes do they have to keep going on about the
> chaps race, and why do they have to keep on playing down the size and the riders of the women's race.
> ...



I noticed that too. Lol. I reckon a breakaway after the first ascent of box hill which will then stay out till 15 k to go

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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

Punctures!


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## MissTillyFlop (29 Jul 2012)

Poor ladies - there's hardly anyone there!


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## iLB (29 Jul 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Poor ladies - there's hardly anyone there!


 
They should have run these events on the same day.


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## MissTillyFlop (29 Jul 2012)

Might have reduced the punctures


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## Speicher (29 Jul 2012)




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## MissTillyFlop (29 Jul 2012)

Craaaaaaash! God, the Brazillian ended up in a ditch :-(


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

Lots and lots of punctures! Quick, go out for a ride while the p fairy is busy!!!

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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

Kiwiavenger said:


> Lots and lots of punctures! Quick, go out for a ride while the p fairy is busy!!!
> 
> Sent from the Holodeck on my Tricorder



I am!

Are there highlights scheduled?


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I am!
> 
> Are there highlights scheduled?
> 
> ...



No idea lol. Holland are racing a blinder though! Lots of attacks initiated by them

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## MissTillyFlop (29 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I am!
> 
> Are there highlights scheduled?
> 
> ...




Should be on iPlayer.


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

Serious question: The men can stop for a slash up against a tree/wall or even on the wheel. Not so easy for the women - what do they do?


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## MissTillyFlop (29 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Serious question: The men can stop for a slash up against a tree/wall or even on the wheel. Not so easy for the women - what do they do?



Silly chuffy - women don't excrete, surely this is common knowledge?!


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Silly chuffy - women don't excrete, surely this is common knowledge?!


You've never met my wife then!


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

Pooley seems to be attacking non-stop... but if it's her vs. Vos, there's only going to be one winner.


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

Cookie dropped.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> You've never met my wife then!


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2012)

Good to see the crowds out on this section. C'mon Pooley!


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## summerdays (29 Jul 2012)

I like the fact the GB team have the white helmets ... makes it far easier to spot them in amongst everyone else. But I hate how they keep changing which channel they broadcast on - why can't they leave the race on one channel for the entire time. (It was the same yesterday).


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

summerdays said:


> I like the fact the GB team have the white helmets ... makes it far easier to spot them in amongst everyone else. But I hate how they keep changing which channel they broadcast on - why can't they leave the race on one channel for the entire time. (It was the same yesterday).


What are you watching it on then? We're on BBC red button. No shifting here.


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## phil_hg_uk (29 Jul 2012)

summerdays said:


> I like the fact the GB team have the white helmets ... makes it far easier to spot them in amongst everyone else. But I hate how they keep changing which channel they broadcast on - why can't they leave the race on one channel for the entire time. (It was the same yesterday).



Watching on bbc olympic 3 no shifting here 

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## summerdays (29 Jul 2012)

I think I was on BBC3 ... they just switched it to BBC1. (And yesterday I was getting annoyed when they would interrupt to tell me about their wonderful "uninterrupted" (yes they did use that word), of the Olympics, when I just wanted to carry on watching the race!!!

(I'm probably not the best person at technical things ... and TV channels /remote controls can come under that heading - I have been known to ask the kids to sort it out for me)


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

Well, this one could stay away. Weather is just getting worse.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

And now we have a podium if it stays this way: Vos, Armistead, Zabelinskaya.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

Vos and Armistead seem to be significantly stronger than the Russian.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2012)

Armitstead is steaming - hope she doesn't belt off too soon.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2012)

Gap up, gap down, eek!


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

No information for lead riders? Not even a moto with a blackboard? FFS...


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## Strathlubnaig (29 Jul 2012)

They can smell the finish now, the crowd will really drive them on too, in the last 10km or so, weather making it proper racing too. Totally on their own really with complete lack of info, head down and batter on is all they can do.


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## MichaelM (29 Jul 2012)

Was that Cancellara corner?


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## MichaelM (29 Jul 2012)

Ah - I think so.


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

MichaelM said:


> Was that Cancellara corner?



Yeah it was, looked dodgy again today

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## MichaelM (29 Jul 2012)

Excellent stuff.


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## dellzeqq (29 Jul 2012)

Vos! Just too strong for Armitstead!


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## iLB (29 Jul 2012)

Wow, now that was a race.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

That was always going to be the 1,2,3. Great ride by Armistead. But Vos is something else.


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

Bugger! Good race though.


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## MattHB (29 Jul 2012)

Tremendous race


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## summerdays (29 Jul 2012)

Really enjoyable race to watch.


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## Baggy (29 Jul 2012)

Gripping stuff, well done Lizzie Armitstead.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jul 2012)

Gripping race, well done & bad luck to Lizzie.


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## Kiwiavenger (29 Jul 2012)

Great race, well done lizzie!

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## dragon72 (29 Jul 2012)

Great stuff! The breaks were covered - resulting in a medal. 
[Men's team: "Doh!"]


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## Peteaud (29 Jul 2012)

Good race and well done Lizzie


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## kevin_cambs_uk (29 Jul 2012)

Brilliant stuff , great to watch and great for Lizzie, well done Team GB !


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jul 2012)

Balls, I totally missed the last hour! Hopefully I can find highlights in the bewildering maze of Olympics coverage.


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## lordloveaduck (29 Jul 2012)

Yep typical, if you want a medal ask a woman. Way better drama, speed and excitement than the men's race.
Women's cycling deserves way more credit and respect than it is currently getting. As for those to commentators
they need a spanking (and not the nice type you give to the vicar).

Glad no one was seriously injured in those conditions.


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## lordloveaduck (29 Jul 2012)

PS I don't know where you were looking, but there was shed loads of people out there.


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## slowmotion (29 Jul 2012)

That was wonderful. Quite how they stayed upright on those wet roads is a complete mystery to me.


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## marshmella (29 Jul 2012)

Fantastic stuff by the women, even my missus was gripped by it and she has no interest in cycling normally.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2012)

Fantastic race, thoroughly gripping. Brilliant effort by Lizzie but who could have beaten Vos in that situation? Took her close though. 

d.


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## thom (29 Jul 2012)

Congratulations Lizzie - the first GB medal !
Pooley rode a great race in support and Vos was predictably just too strong in the end, timing her sprint well.
I thought Lizzie might have got it when she tried to come round.
A good atmosphere at the Mall but again a whole set of seats with a great view practically empty. 
Fewer spectators than yesterday but it was raining pretty hard today and perhaps that was the second most spectators at an Olympic event ever.


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## tigger (29 Jul 2012)

Cracking race! Really enjoyed it. Well done Lizzie


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## Saluki (29 Jul 2012)

We were utterly gripped here and yelling at the TV at the finish. Great result for Lizzie!


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## bellevueace (29 Jul 2012)

Great race, i enjoyed it far better than the mens, pooley was superb in support, and a big well done to Lizzie.


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## PpPete (29 Jul 2012)

AND the Germans got to experience what it was like trying to pull the peloton back without much support from anyone else.....


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## Globalti (29 Jul 2012)

Was it a coincidence that the two fastest were both riders accustomed to awful weather?

Thrilling though, wasn't it!


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Jul 2012)

someone get the GB women some decent media training.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jul 2012)

GregCollins said:


> someone get the GB women some decent media training.


Please no.

We don't want a sport full of Beckhams.


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Jul 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Please no.
> 
> We don't want a sport full of Beckhams.


No, we want if full of people who can represent themselves as articulate intelligent professional sports people.


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## Christopher (29 Jul 2012)

Really enjoyed that and was very impressed with Emma Pooley's riding - a textbook example of marking the opposition and riding for the team


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## Danny (29 Jul 2012)

lordloveaduck said:


> Yep typical, if you want a medal ask a woman. Way better drama, speed and excitement than the men's race.
> Women's cycling deserves way more credit and respect than it is currently getting.


let's hope there will now be more TV coverage of women's cycling in the future.


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## Danny (29 Jul 2012)

Unlike the men, the women's team seemed to be able to adapt their tactics to the circumstances.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

GregCollins said:


> No, we want if full of people who can represent themselves as articulate intelligent professional sports people.


 
You really are unnecessarily grumpy on this occasion. They come across as normal human beings. This is good.


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## broomwagon (29 Jul 2012)

Armistead would have taken silver at the start. She gave Vos too much respect. Even before she crossed the line she was smiling, happy to get second . The rain made it a better race to watch


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## thom (29 Jul 2012)

Vos and Armitstead opening up the sprint


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## The Jogger (29 Jul 2012)

It was an excellent finish, the future looks bright,


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

An answer to the nature break question!


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## totallyfixed (29 Jul 2012)

GregCollins said:


> someone get the GB women some decent media training.


No, the media need some decent media training and they would do well to start with camera coverage ala TdF, commentary and visual accurate time gaps and if you are going to use helicopter shots how difficult can it be to show the actual gaps?
Well done Lizzie, I think the only chance she had would maybe to use her track craft and jump the other two from around 800m out, but brilliant rid anyway against probably the best in the world at the moment.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Well done Lizzie, I think the only chance she had would maybe to use her track craft and jump the other two from around 800m out, but brilliant rid anyway against probably the best in the world at the moment.


 
You forget that Vos is a track champion and Olympic medalist on the track too! She's by some distance the best cyclist in the world today. Armistead got the best result she could - nothing she could have done would have beaten Vos today.


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You forget that Vos is a track champion and Olympic medalist on the track too! She's by some distance the best cyclist in the world today. Armistead got the best result she could - nothing she could have done would have beaten Vos today.


Not _quite_ sure of that. Vos wasn't pulling away from Lizzie, so their speeds must have been equal, with just Vos' initial jump being the difference. I reckon if Lizzie had gone first the roles could have been reversed. Not criticism btw, just how it _might_ have gone.


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## ColinJ (29 Jul 2012)

Having seen a lot of punctures earlier in the race, and with a gap too small to give time to stop for a wheel change, I found watching that last 40 km really stressful, especially with wet roads making every bend a potential hazard. (Incidentally, wasn't the bend that Cancellara crashed on yesterday the same one that caught some of the chasing group out today?)

I organised a forum ride out to (Armitstead's home town) Otley 2 weeks ago and was struck by how many seriously fit looking female cyclists we saw out training round there. I'm sure that today's result will inspire many more women to have a go at racing, which can only be a good thing.


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## slowmotion (29 Jul 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You forget that Vos is a track champion and Olympic medalist on the track too! She's by some distance the best cyclist in the world today. Armistead got the best result she could - nothing she could have done would have beaten Vos today.


 FM, I know nothing about road race tactics, but how can you possibly say that Armistead never had a chance against Vos? She was beaten by a fraction of a second after God knows how many road miles. I don't get it. BTW, (seriously) is there an article that can explain how this road race thing works? I would love to get more out of watching it. Today's race was wonderful.


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## totallyfixed (30 Jul 2012)

Predicting the end of a race once it has finished is a tad easy, FWIW I predicted a Vos win earlier in this thread but still no kudos to me because currently Vos is on the top of her game so not a difficult prediction. However, I have been racing for more years than I care to remember and after endurance events where there are only a two or possibly three protagonists left it really comes down to who has the most strength left and this is not always clearly obvious. What was clear to me was that Vos didn't want to strike for home until the last possible minute where she would have the best chance to win and leaving not enough time for Lizzie to counter attack, which is why I think Lizzie's best chance was to go from further out. But well done to all three for making it infinitely more exciting than the men's race.
Great for women's cycling and maybe a wake up call to producers to show more, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Flying_Monkey (30 Jul 2012)

slowmotion said:


> FM, I know nothing about road race tactics, but how can you possibly say that Armistead never had a chance against Vos? She was beaten by a fraction of a second after God knows how many road miles. I don't get it. BTW, (seriously) is there an article that can explain how this road race thing works? I would love to get more out of watching it. Today's race was wonderful.


 
Yes, it was wonderful. In my view, there were ways Vos could have been beaten, but those mainly involved her missing the decisive break. And since she was absolutely on the prowl for a break that wasn't going to happen. Vos is a rider who really doesn't have any weaknesses except perhaps against a pure sprinter, plus she has been on top form this year. She is a superb athlete, has the sheer guts of someone like Cooke, and a tactical head - and that is why she knew exactly when to go for the line and Armistead, for all her talent and growing ability, did not and could only try to respond to whatever Vos did. Vos was always in charge of that break.


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## lordloveaduck (30 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> An answer to the nature break question!


 
I would rather have my bladder explode.


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## Keith Oates (30 Jul 2012)

It was a good win for for Vos and also a great result for Armistead and the race itself was very exciting, so let's hope the Women's racing gets more support and exposure from the media in the future. The only thing for me, that dampens my feelings, is that I think Nicole Cooke is beginning to show the 'sell by date'.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## summerdays (30 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Having seen a lot of punctures earlier in the race, and with a gap too small to give time to stop for a wheel change, I found watching that last 40 km really stressful, especially with wet roads making every bend a potential hazard. (Incidentally, wasn't the bend that Cancellara crashed on yesterday the same one that caught some of the chasing group out today?)


I was definitely feeling the tension, especially every time the commentators mentioned "they are guaranteed a medal", having seen how quickly the USA competitor dropped off the front group. Did they say what happened to her?


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## Blue Hills (30 Jul 2012)

A great race - ended up watching pretty much the whole thing - way more interesting than the men's race. Great advert for women's cycling - it will surely have an effect.


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## raindog (30 Jul 2012)

I'm with FM on this. Lizzie could have permutated that finish in several ways and Vos would still have won. Considering the stature and experience of Vos in women's racing and Lizzie's comparative youth, getting silver was a fantastic achievement. 
Well done gal! 

William Fotheringham mentions that she was inspired by her fellow Yorkshirewoman, the great Beryl Burton and Otley Club member. Good to see the old riders getting a mention by the youngsters - bike racing, what a fantastic sport. 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/29/london-2012-lizzie-armitstead-silver


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## beastie (30 Jul 2012)

slowmotion said:


> That was wonderful. Quite how they stayed upright on those wet roads is a complete mystery to me.


Don't you ride in the rain?


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## beanzontoast (30 Jul 2012)

The weather made the finishing stages even more unpredictable, but a great race to watch. Good that it was a close finish too.

It's amusing that the media goes on about the numbers of people out on the course watching as if this wasn't to be expected. For the vast majority of those people, seeing the cycling road race was the only opportunity they would have to see any of the Olympic sports live. If egg and spoon was an Olympic sport and it went past where I live, I'd be out there in any kind of weather watching it! The prime time tv coverage is the more significant thing in terms of promoting cycling.


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## Danny (30 Jul 2012)

Chuffy said:


> Not _quite_ sure of that. Vos wasn't pulling away from Lizzie, so their speeds must have been equal, with just Vos' initial jump being the difference. I reckon if Lizzie had gone first the roles could have been reversed. Not criticism btw, just how it _might_ have gone.


Lizzie of course said the same thing when she was interviewed at the end of the race, but I suspect Vos was too strong whatever she did.


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## Danny (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> William Fotheringham mentions that she was inspired by her fellow Yorkshirewoman, the great Beryl Burton and Otley Club member. Good to see the old riders getting a mention by the youngsters - bike racing, what a fantastic sport.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/29/london-2012-lizzie-armitstead-silver


It was a good article, and I was delighted to discover that Lizzie is a vegetarian.

Does anyone know more about how the British Cycling "talent spotting" works? The race commentators kept saying Lizzie had been "spotted in the school playground", but Fotheringham's article makes it clear that it was a bit more sophisticated than that. Even so I am amazed anyone could spot talent by getting someone to race round a school playing field.


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## VamP (30 Jul 2012)

As an aside, I timed the women at 6 minutes 30 seconds up Box Hill - a whopping minute faster than my PB. Anyone got an idea of the men's times?


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## smutchin (30 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> Don't you ride in the rain?



Don't know about slowmotion, but speaking for myself, I ride in all weathers. However, I don't very often take sharp right-handers in a bunch going at racing speed in heavy rain. 

d.


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## siadwell (30 Jul 2012)

Danny said:


> Unlike the men, the women's team seemed to be able to adapt their tactics to the circumstances.


To be fair, they had the benefit of seeing how sticking to plan went wrong for the men.


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## Danny (30 Jul 2012)

siadwell said:


> To be fair, they had the benefit of seeing how sticking to plan went wrong for the men.


True.

But Brailsford in unrepentant about the tactics for the men's race and still says "If we could have our time again, we'd do exactly the same thing”


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## siadwell (30 Jul 2012)

Danny said:


> True.
> 
> But Brailsford in unrepentant about the tactics for the men's race and still says "If we could have our time again, we'd do exactly the same thing”


Thanks, I've just found that quote on the BC page. Puzzling, to say the least.


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## cd365 (30 Jul 2012)

Being someone who hasn't really watched a lot of womens cycling I really enjoyed that race


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## Chuffy (30 Jul 2012)

Danny said:


> True.
> 
> But Brailsford in unrepentant about the tactics for the men's race and still says "If we could have our time again, we'd do exactly the same thing”


But that's the problem you have when you've got the worlds fastest sprinter on your team, it pretty much dictates your tactics and everyone knew it from the day the course was announced. The only other option would be to use Cav as a decoy/Plan B or even leave him out altogether, in which case you'll have an incadescent Manxman on your hands and an even bigger pack of armchair DS's ripping you a new hole for ruining Our Cav's Golden Parade.

The women's team didn't have that imbalance, which meant that their chosen plan (Pooley shreds legs and marks moves, Cooke lurks and Armistead follows Vos) had much more chance of success.


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## raindog (30 Jul 2012)

siadwell said:


> Thanks, I've just found that quote on the BC page. Puzzling, to say the least.


Why? What else could they have done? If they'd have put a man in the 30 man break, they probably wouldn't have got a medal anyway, and then they would've been criticised for being a man short for Cav.

Far too easy to lambast tactics in hindsight from the comfort of an armchair.


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## tigger (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Why? What else could they have done? If they'd have put a man in the 30 man break, they probably wouldn't have got a medal anyway, and then they would've been criticised for being a man short for Cav.
> 
> Far too easy to lambast tactics in hindsight from the comfort of an armchair.


 
Agree wholeheartedly Raindog. They had a plan, they stuck to it... and it appeared to be working until the break just wouldn't come back in that last hour. Hindsight is wonderful...


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## siadwell (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Why? What else could they have done? If they'd have put a man in the 30 man break, they probably wouldn't have got a medal anyway, and then they would've been criticised for being a man short for Cav.
> 
> Far too easy to lambast tactics in hindsight from the comfort of an armchair.


 
But that's the whole point. Brailsford now has the benefit of hindsight, the original plan didn't work, but he says he'd do the same again.


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## raindog (30 Jul 2012)

siadwell said:


> But that's the whole point. Brailsford now has the benefit of hindsight, the original plan didn't work, but he says he'd do the same again.


No, the point is that backing Cav 100% was the best plan and still would be.


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## slowmotion (30 Jul 2012)

beastie said:


> Don't you ride in the rain?


 Yes I do. A tad slower though...


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## Chuffy (30 Jul 2012)

siadwell said:


> But that's the whole point. Brailsford now has the benefit of hindsight, the original plan didn't work, but he says he'd do the same again.


I wonder if the Germans would say the same...


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## lordloveaduck (30 Jul 2012)

The mens team is like the England Football team, They see it as there right to win, then are totally
perplexed when they don't.

News Flash, "Your not that great chaps!".


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> No, the point is that backing Cav 100% was the best plan and still would be.


But the problem with that plan is it is the easiest to spoil. Most of the competitors know they have almost no chance of a medal, but are sufficiently competitive ego-wise not to do anything to help the favourite win.


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## lordloveaduck (30 Jul 2012)

[U][COLOR=red][LEFT]Delftse[/LEFT][/COLOR][/U] Post said:


> TDF 1+ 2, World Road Champ + best sprinter, 4/5 won stages in TDF, etc.
> 
> News Flash: You're a bit daft.


 
Was the TDF part of the Olympics?

No you silly sausage....shakes head walks away


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## tigger (30 Jul 2012)

GregCollins said:


> But the problem with that plan is it is the easiest to spoil. Most of the competitors know they have almost no chance of a medal, but are sufficiently competitive ego-wise not to do anything to help the favourite win.


 
I'm not disagreeing with the problem presented of controlling this race for a sprinter, but if this was so cleary a bad plan why wasn't everyone shouting from rooftops before the race?

In hindsight... maybe GB should have reacted sooner to pull the break back after Box Hill, or the Germans may feel they should have committed more resource earlier, or the Aussies too etc etc etc. With hindsight many things could have changed the outcome of the race, but with an hour to go the GB masterplan wasn't looking too hopeless was it?


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## ColinJ (30 Jul 2012)

tigger said:


> ... with an hour to go the GB masterplan wasn't looking too hopeless was it?


Actually, I thought it was!

Looking at the quality of the riders in that breakaway (and realising how tired the GB squad must have been by then), I was thinking that they hardly stood a chance of dragging them back unless the Germans fully committed to helping them straight away. It soon became clear that the Germans wouldn't (or couldn't) help and I never thought that Cav would get his chance.

I think the only thing that GB could have done differently (if they didn't actually do it) would have been to have had a private meeting with the German team management beforehand and arranged to cooperate until (say) the last 10 km to try and engineer a sprint finish where Greipel and Cav could fight it out for gold and silver. 

It was pretty obvious that the teams from the rest of the world would try and do what they did to GB and Germany, and cooperating from the start was about the only way of fighting back.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Jul 2012)

tigger said:


> but with an hour to go the GB masterplan wasn't looking too hopeless was it?


I was there an hour to go telling everyone to keep the faith with plan A and everyone around me, literally and virtually, was telling me not to be a knobber.


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## raindog (30 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I think the only thing that GB could have done differently (if they didn't actually do it) would have been to have had a private meeting with the German team management beforehand and arranged to cooperate until (say) the last 10 km to try and engineer a sprint finish where Greipel and Cav could fight it out for gold and silver.
> .


Why was a meeting needed? Germany knew very well that their chance of a medal was with Greipel and they needed to work with us to get him and Cav to the line for a sprint. They would've got a medal, maybe even gold, but for some reason - some sort of spite? I don't know - they wouldn't do it.
It was bizarre.


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## Kirstie (30 Jul 2012)

Back to the women's race, there was a split second where Armistead might have won it. Vos looked over her right shoulder and she could have got the jump on her blindside. Easy to say from my armchair, though...


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## ColinJ (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> Why was a meeting needed? Germany knew very well that their chance of a medal was with Greipel and they needed to work with us to get him and Cav to the line for a sprint. They would've got a medal, maybe even gold, but for some reason - some sort of spite? I don't know - they wouldn't do it.
> It was bizarre.


All I'm saying is that there were two ways of succeeding:

Trust the Germans to do the right thing for themselves and us, and fight for the medal at the end. _That plan clearly didn't work!_
Be absolutely blunt with the Germans behind the scenes - _"If you work with us, we fight for gold and silver. If you don't, neither team gets a medal!"_


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## ColinJ (30 Jul 2012)

Kirstie said:


> Back to the women's race, there was a split second where Armistead might have won it. Vos looked over her right shoulder and she could have got the jump on her blindside. Easy to say from my armchair, though...


Oops - sorry about that - I hadn't even noticed that we were in the women's RR thread rather than the original one! 

I got caught out by the BBC changing channels mid-race again*** and missed the selection over the top of Box Hill. I'll be taking a look at the recorded coverage to watch what I missed. I also missed Vos looking trhe wrong way, so I'll see if I can spot that this time. 

I certainly spotted Uran looking the wrong way in the other race and Vinokourov rightly pounced on his mistake.

**** Why do they do that - aaaargh!* I was timeshifting the race because someone knocked on my door during the last climb of the hill. When I got back to the TV, I discovered that the coverage had gone back to BBC1 and I'd missed the action.


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2012)

The problem with GB's plan was that everyone knew exactly what it was, so they reached an unspoken agreement to just let the Brits just get on with it on their own.


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## thom (30 Jul 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I think the only thing that GB could have done differently (if they didn't actually do it) would have been to have had a private meeting with the German team management beforehand and arranged to cooperate until (say) the last 10 km to try and engineer a sprint finish where Greipel and Cav could fight it out for gold and silver.


I heard David Millar talking about the race a while back, likely during the TdF, explaining that as the road captain that approaching the other teams fell on his shoulders and he would be doing it in the days before the race. I think if you see his interview after the race he says the Aussies were never going to ride, which I take to show he spoke to them before and they declined to help. He would also have gone to the Germans.

In a different direction, I'm sickened by reports that Jan Moir in the Daily Mail described Marianne Vos as "some bitch from Holland". 
Does anyone here buy that newspaper ? Flipping outrageous - how can you be so stupid and ignorant and still get to write for a national newspaper ?


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## raindog (30 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> In a different direction, I'm sickened by reports that Jan Moir in the Daily Mail described Marianne Vos as "some bitch from Holland".


That's disgusting - what a rag. Can't something be done about that? Isn't there a complaints board for dodgy journalism?

I think Millar might've been refering to the fact that O'Grady was in the break?


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## thom (30 Jul 2012)

raindog said:


> I think Millar might've been refering to the fact that O'Grady was in the break?


Well I think he knew before they'd have tactics to put someone in the break.


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## Tenorman (30 Jul 2012)

thom said:


> I heard David Millar talking about the race a while back, likely during the TdF, explaining that as the road captain that approaching the other teams fell on his shoulders and he would be doing it in the days before the race. I think if you see his interview after the race he says the Aussies were never going to ride, which I take to show he spoke to them before and they declined to help. He would also have gone to the Germans.
> 
> In a different direction, I'm sickened by reports that Jan Moir in the Daily Mail described Marianne Vos as "some bitch from Holland".
> Does anyone here buy that newspaper ? Flipping outrageous - how can you be so stupid and ignorant and still get to write for a national newspaper ?


 
I just read your link to the Daily Shame, and honestly thought they were making it up that time - and that of course the Daily (hate) Mail would not publish those exact words (Daily Shame here saying that of course they would edit it before too long). So, went to this link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ppened-Sharron-Davies-face-Asks-Jan-Moir.html and bugger me if it isn't exactly what Jan Moir wrote, and doesn't seem to have retracted yet. Comments seem to pretty much condemn her for it.


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## thom (30 Jul 2012)

Tenorman said:


> (Daily Shame here saying that of course they would edit it before too long).


So the DM also made derogatory/racist remarks about the ethnic composition of the family used in the opening ceremony. That article did get edited online.


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