# To go disc



## postman (12 Jan 2008)

Have seen the bike.Trek 4300.So i now have a choice to make.Disc or not.What should i pick and why?


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## longers (12 Jan 2008)

I've got discs on one bike and love the stopping power .

Are you going to be able to get a ride on the different versions before you buy?


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## RedBike (12 Jan 2008)

In the dry a GOOD set of V-brakes will stop you just as quickly (if not quicker) than most xc oriented discs . However, in the wet or mud discs really do come into their own. 

BTW, no idea which brakes the Trek 4300 comes with but some mechanical disc brakes really are worth avoiding. They're under-powered and require constant adjustment.


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## trio25 (12 Jan 2008)

As redbike says avoid Mechanical Disk brakes, V-brakes are better if set up correctly. But if you want to ride through the winter good discs make a difference. Before I had discs I finished many a winter ride walking downhill as my brake pads had disappeared!


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## punkypossum (13 Jan 2008)

I have the 4300 with v's, and although the stopping power is actually very good, I wish I had gone for discs...at the time I thought I could just upgrade and go straight to hydraulics, but completely forgot that the hubs are not disc ready and that all the shifters would need changing as the current ones are combined brake/gear shifters, so it's not really worth it for a bike at that price...

AFAIC it's worth spending the extra money, even if the discs you get are only mechanical - then again, I suppose it depends what you want to use the bike for...

PS it's a great little bike, I love mine to bits - he's just had a new fork for christmas, really good ride!


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## ratty2k (13 Jan 2008)

I agree with punky, not all mech disc brakes are poor- the avid range is generally regarded quite well, and I've had Shimano mech disc brakes that are effective. They just need more adjusting than hydro systems as they usually only have one moving pad. The main reason for agreeing tho' is the ease of upgrading, as you already have disc hubs and wont need to upgrade the wheels straight away and may well find that the mech brakes suit you just fine.


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## postman (13 Jan 2008)

Thank you everyone for the helpful hints and ideas.I have been from Staffs to Los Angeles reading the reviews in mountain bike threads.A decision has been made i will go for 4300 with v brakes £300.This bike will be used mainly on tow paths and local paths around waterways.Never intended to go serious mtb.To answer Bonji i wish to extend my leg it felt as though i was putting too much pressure on the knees,something i wish to avoid after having two ops one one knee already.Now just have to get the money out of the household budget.


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## punkypossum (14 Jan 2008)

Not sure if you would consider getting it from Evans, but they have the 2007 model for £269...


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## postman (14 Jan 2008)

Thanks for that.Did see it myself.But i will support lbs,can drop in anytime.


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## fisha (15 Jan 2008)

OK - disc brakes - 3 versions:

Mechanical
Single pot hydraulic
Double pot ( or more ) hydraulic.


Mechanical ones usethe same brake cable that a V-brake would use. Generally cheaper and performance generally on a par with a good set of V-brakes. You can get more advanced ones whose power is better than V's, but at that price for them, you start to enter entry level hydraulic prices. Generally, with a mechanical you generally have 1 pad side that moves under cable pull, and the other pad side static. the static side pad ( normally the spoke side ) can have its distance from the disc adjusted by means of an allen key, so you need to run it quite close to the disc ( which can cause scuffing ) . The moving side then gets pushed against the disc, and then against the static pad to clamp. This slightly bends the disc as it does so and I found that in some cases this lead to uneven wear of the pads ( a little like toeing in brake pads would cause uneven wear ) and that you did need to fettle with the distance to get it right. The upside of mechanica discs is that they are simple and cheap.


Single Pot Hydraulic.
Basically the same as mechanical really. the hydraulics move only one side the pads and the other remains static. Power will be better than that of mechanical V's, but you still have the issue of slightly bending the disc. One of the most common used to be Hayes 'Solo' 9's 

Dual Pot ( or more ) hydraulic.
These are the real deal. Instead of 1 moving side and 1 static side, you have a caliper piston on both sides pushing both pads against the disc in an even manner. This means that the pads clamp the disc without bending it and equal force and wear on each side. There are a ton of different versions from the various manufacturers and its a hugely debated topic. Even the base model versions from the likes of Shimano nowadays are outstanding compared to V-brakes ( personally speaking from experience ) .

Each make also tends to have a slightly different feel to the way the brakes work as well. Generally I found that Hayes brakes have quite an ON/OFF feel to them. The power ramps up really sharply as you pull on the levers. At the other end of the scale, Hope brakes in comparison have a softer feel to the them where you need to pull the lever a longer distance ( not necessarily harder pull, just longer travel ) to get the same power of braking. This is good when your wanting to feather the brakes and kill speed in a variable controlled manner as opposed to an all out stop. Inbetween those is Shimano. Not as harsh as Hayes, but not as mushy as Hopes. ( dont get me wrong about hope though .... pull that lever and the anchors are well and truly on ) 



You've already decided, but I'd suggest, that it may be worth waiting and buying an aftermarket upgrade to disc brakes. PLaces like CRC and the like often do deals on full hydraulic systems ( dual pot calipers ) and these are likely to be a better long term fit.


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## 02GF74 (18 Jan 2008)

wot the goldfish said.

you are better off buying a bike with hydraulic discs now rather than upgrading in the future.

to switch to discs you would need new wheels with disc hubs and if the shifter/gear lever is one unit, then new shifters as well as brake levers.


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## Ludwig (20 Jan 2008)

I seem to manage ok without disks. I think they they are a bit of a gimmick aimed at weekenders.


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## ratty2k (20 Jan 2008)

Errr, no. Definately not a gimmick, the cable ones on cheap supermarket bikes maybe..... But I really wouldn't fancy riding the trails without my disc brakes now. The power, reliability and mostly maintenance free issues also help! I've had discs pinging while they cooled down, and steam coming off them when wet. There is nothing wrong with Vee brakes when set up well, but they are not a match for disc brakes.


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## RedBike (20 Jan 2008)

I will agree that the very cheap mechanical discs are gimmicky.

However, I don't agree that discs in general are just for weekenders. On wet muddy trails discs are significantly better. Definitely not a gimmick and definitely worth while. Having got used to the power and modulation of high end hydraulic discs I certainly wont be switching back to V's in a hurry. 

I suppose quite a bit depends on where you're riding. On a dry ride along a family trail / canal side then you probably wont notice any advantages over V's. But if you're riding down a steep muddy trail thats so wet it looks like a river then discs are worth every penny.


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## User482 (21 Jan 2008)

Hydraulic discs are definitely better, but I did manage to MTB for 10 years or so with V brakes/ cantis. I don't think they should be your first priority on a cheaper MTB - focus on the frame and wheels as they will have more effect on how it rides.


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## 02GF74 (21 Jan 2008)

User482 said:


> Hydraulic discs are definitely better, but I did manage to MTB for 10 years or so with V brakes/ cantis. I don't think they should be your first priority on a cheaper MTB - focus on the frame and wheels as they will have more effect on how it rides.




ofcourse you managed on cantis and Vs just like out grand parents managed on cork rim blocks!!!  cause there was nowt else?!?!

discs are not a gimimick - look at motorcycles - back in the day they all had drums now you will find drums only on the rear, if at all at all.

hydraulic discs rule; there was some debate about being heavier but the weight is pretty good nowadays if you also take into consideration the lighter rims.


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## User482 (22 Jan 2008)

02GF74 said:


> ofcourse you managed on cantis and Vs just like out grand parents managed on cork rim blocks!!!  cause there was nowt else?!?!
> 
> discs are not a gimimick - look at motorcycles - back in the day they all had drums now you will find drums only on the rear, if at all at all.
> 
> hydraulic discs rule; there was some debate about being heavier but the weight is pretty good nowadays if you also take into consideration the lighter rims.




You know, a motorbike goes just a tad faster than an MTB 

Discs are a good innovation, but do not offer the night and day performance benefit that some claim. As I said before, much better to focus on the frame & wheels first.


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## fisha (22 Jan 2008)

> but do not offer the night and day performance benefit that some claim



User482, 

Sorry, but set of hydraulic disc brakes from the main brand players ( Hayes 9's, Shimano Deore or above, Hope Mono series, Magura ) simply do offer a significant improvement in braking. In the dry, i can kill speed with less effort and pull on the levers, and in the wet, there is no contest.

Yes, V-brakes and rim brakes will stop me. But the discs do it significantly better and with much more ease .... to me, that is a better performer. 

I have a road bike with normal brakes.
I have a hardtail which has had in order:
- XT V-brakes and levers ( i.e. a good quality v-brake )
- Shimano Deore mechanical discs
- Hayes 9's Hydraulic discs
- now has Shimano Deore hydraulic discs ( 160mm rotors ) 
I also have a full suspension with Hope Mono M4 hydraulic brakes ( 180mm front rotor ) 


Time and time on all bikes and brake versions, i've ridden a bit of road which has 2 main descents where with a tuck its easy to reach 35mph and normally closer to 40mph ( on all the bikes ).

In all weathers, the discs win out, its why i changed the hardtail. With the roadie and the V-brake version hardtail, stopping at the bottom for the 90° bend was doable, but i feel with the road bike getting the speed down is something where i'm running up to the corner thinking " slow down, slow down, pull harder, slow down " when i'm on the levers. With any of the disc bikes, its just a non issue. Run up to the corner, pull the levers and progressively increase the pressure and the speed falls away. 



Do I think that discs are a thing for road bikes though ? Nah, not really. Normal brakes do stop me. but for mountain bikes, yes, its the way to go.


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## User482 (23 Jan 2008)

fisha said:


> User482,
> 
> Sorry, but set of hydraulic disc brakes from the main brand players ( Hayes 9's, Shimano Deore or above, Hope Mono series, Magura ) simply do offer a significant improvement in braking. In the dry, i can kill speed with less effort and pull on the levers, and in the wet, there is no contest.
> 
> ...



I have a road bike with shimano calipers, a 1992 Breezer with original Deore DX cantilevers, and a Giant Trance with Hope Mono minis & 180mm rotors. The Hopes are the best brakes, particulalrly in the wet and mud. But they are not night and day better than the others. 

At the budget end of the market, cheaper discs than Hopes will be fitted, and other parts of the bike will have to be downgraded to hit the price point. So in my view, you are better off spending the money on a decent frame, that would stand an upgrade to discs in time if the MTB bug bites.


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