# Mantova drug investigations



## rich p (9 Apr 2011)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ita...ntova-doping-investigation-should-go-on-trial


Another scandal although not quite on the Puerto Richter scale.

I can't believe that Rasmussen, Ballan, Cunego and Bruzhegin could have been on the juice. It just doesn't seem credible to me.


----------



## mangaman (9 Apr 2011)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingne...uld-go-on-trial
> 
> 
> Another scandal although not quite on the Puerto Richter scale.
> ...




Interesting stuff rich - although if Cunego / Rasmussen were involved in doping I'll eat my helmet.






(how's your helmet supply - almost every thread I enter, you're offering to tuck into one. I'm wondering if you them specially made from chocolate or something



)

Back to your story - not on the Puerto scale in a way - but Puerto was so airbrushed only a few got tainted.

If this finally nails Rasmussen / Cunego et al it will be very important.


----------



## Dave_1 (10 Apr 2011)

I suppose it would be good to remove so many in one fell swoop...then at least young riders trying to break into the pro ranks and clean will have those spots on those teams...no longer being deprived of those vacancies by dopers. At the moment it is still trial by newspapers but let's see what happens next week.


----------



## oldroadman (13 Apr 2011)

Dave_1 said:


> I suppose it would be good to remove so many in one fell swoop...then at least young riders trying to break into the pro ranks and clean will have those spots on those teams...no longer being deprived of those vacancies by dopers. At the moment it is still trial by newspapers but let's see what happens next week.



A clean out of the old guard, riders, sport directors (usually ex-riders), and soigneurs, who still have the bad culture, would do no harm at all.


----------



## BJH (22 Apr 2011)

oldroadman said:


> A clean out of the old guard, riders, sport directors (usually ex-riders), and soigneurs, who still have the bad culture, would do no harm at all.



Couldn't agree more - the teams who are taking a big stance on drugs appear to let that little fact slip. There has to be a concept of persona non grata in place to ensure if you get caught then it will be no carrer racing and no career behind the scenes.


----------



## BJH (22 Apr 2011)

Sorry, one further point. What a disgrace when a major team which comments about riding clean has a sporting Director who handed back his yellow jersey as a Tour winner because he knew the game was up and everyone knew he was a cheat.

Oh, so that's all right then is it? Not a problem, you have offered the jersey back so everything will be ok will it?

What about the poor B%^^%£ds who were blown out of finishing the tour that year because your use of EPO had you flying up mountains at normal flat speeds. They suffered, maybe had the pain of having to climb into the sag wagon, missed out of finishing the greatest event they would ever take part in.

Or for the first clean rider in the event that year ( Yes, they may have not even been in the official top 10 or 20 that year) who was cheated out of victory in the greatest race, the fame and fortune that go with it??

But that's ok because the Eagle offered the shirt back?

he should be banned from the sport for his admission.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (3 May 2011)

This is getting tastier. The Gazzeta dello Sport has published some transcripts from the police investigation, including Ballan talking about his (extensive) doping program, and others claiming that 'without chemicals [Ballan] would never have made it'... it's some of the most damning evidence I have seen. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gaz...es-evidence-from-mantova-doping-investigation


----------



## BJH (3 May 2011)

Damning is the word for it.

Cycling about to get dragged through it again. The UCI and the federations have to make something stick if they are ever going to get past this.


----------



## Paulus (4 May 2011)

On a slightly different tack, why are these allegations always published by the authorities just before one of the major tours is about to begin? Is there a conspiracy to discredit the sport of cycling, although the sport does a pretty good job itself, or is it just bad/good timing by the doping authorities?


----------



## rich p (4 May 2011)

Paulus said:


> On a slightly different tack, why are these allegations always published by the authorities just before one of the major tours is about to begin? Is there a conspiracy to discredit the sport of cycling, although the sport does a pretty good job itself, or is it just bad/good timing by the doping authorities?




Could just be coincidence but maybe the Giro authorities want them 'outed' now too, so they don't have a winner or rider tainted post the race.

The Padua enquiry is ongoing so Scarponi is able to ride while the investigations continue.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 May 2011)

rich p said:


> Could just be coincidence but maybe the Giro authorities want them 'outed' now too, so they don't have a winner or rider tainted post the race.
> 
> The Padua enquiry is ongoing so Scarponi is able to ride while the investigations continue.



I think that's exactly it. If there is not sufficient public pressure then many teams will continue to try to use the rider they know to be dodgy as long as they can. 

BTW, I wonder if people know that Sky's Morris Possoni has also been implicated in the Mantova investigations, though apparently not (yet) in any central way, and Sky are doing the brazening it out thing.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 May 2011)

Rasmussen's new team (the rather ridiculous cobbled together outfit put together by a rich friend of his) is also stalling... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/christina-watches-will-not-suspend-michael-rasmussen-over-mantova


----------



## rich p (5 May 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Rasmussen's new team (the rather ridiculous cobbled together outfit put together by a rich friend of his) is also stalling... http://www.cyclingne...en-over-mantova




This Rasmussen team is bizarre from the sponsor's point of view. I really can't see what Christina whatsit is getting out of it unless she thinks any publicity is good publicity.

Even if he was a reformed ex-offender and the Mantova enquiry wasn't hanging over his head it would be a strange rider to nail your colours to - pardon the mangled metaphor.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (5 May 2011)

rich p said:


> This Rasmussen team is bizarre from the sponsor's point of view. I really can't see what Christina whatsit is getting out of it unless she thinks any publicity is good publicity.
> 
> Even if he was a reformed ex-offender and the Mantova enquiry wasn't hanging over his head it would be a strange rider to nail your colours to - pardon the mangled metaphor.



I had inititally assumed that they were more than friends... but she's married and he's no picture anyway.


----------



## mangaman (5 May 2011)

Paulus said:


> On a slightly different tack, why are these allegations always published by the authorities just before one of the major tours is about to begin? Is there a conspiracy to discredit the sport of cycling, although the sport does a pretty good job itself, or is it just bad/good timing by the doping authorities?



Without sounding too conspiracy-minded and as if I'm posting live from a grassy knoll, I think the "authorities" such as WADA do see cycling as an easy touch - especially before a big race.

The whole of Spanish sport from tennis / football / cycling / athletics even formula 1 suddenly is the best in the world.

Fuentes admitting doping people from all sports during Puerto.

I would eat one of richPs hats (if he's any left) if a story broke even vaguely linking Nadal to doping before a Major or a Barcelona player before the Champions League Final.

Interestingly I've just looked at what Fuentes actually said - from the link on Wiki

Here's the Wiki link - http://en.wikipedia....#Other_athletes

and the El Pais article.

http://www.elpais.co...lpepidep_23/Tes

The title is a quote from Fuentes saying he is indignant that cycling has been singled out
He says

"Preguntado por si sus tratamientos con sangre los realizaba en otros deportes, aclaró que los ha aconsejado, "como ayuda a la recuperación, a futbolistas, tenistas o atletas" which according to my Spanish, means, asked if his blood treatment involved other sports, he said he had helped with the recovery of footballers, tennis players and athletes.


Back to the original question - I think the UCI is toothless and weak. EUFA and the Tennis people will have just told the Puerto investigators to f**k off or risk reprisals - like banning all Spanish clubs from European football for example.


The UCI don't have that clout


----------



## BJH (7 May 2011)

Amazing that a certain tennis player hits the ball apparently like no other before. I find the whole of that country's sporting credentials very peculiar.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2013)

Update

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mantova-judges-sends-27-to-trial-for-doping-charges


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2013)

What I'd love to see on tomorrow's stage is Froome making some public gesture to Cunego in homage to Armstrong/Simeoni. It would be a powerful statement. 

Or Kittel having words with Cunego. That would be fun.


----------



## Noodley (19 Jul 2013)

Kittel to square up to Cunego in Dolph Lundgren style and twat him, shouting "'av it!" (although I dinnae think Dolph ever shouted that)


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2013)

Lets not forget that the French Senate report on doping was put off until after the tour, so maybe some more news next week
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-senate-report-on-doping-delayed


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Lets not forget that the French Senate report on doping was put off until after the tour, so maybe some more news next week
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-senate-report-on-doping-delayed


Jensie d'yer think?


----------



## 400bhp (21 Jul 2013)

The peanut should be immediately suspended by Lampre, which would mean him not finishing the tour.

A kind of gesture that would be interesting if they simply didn't ride within, say 6 feel of him, so it would look like he stinks or sommat.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2013)

400bhp said:


> The peanut should be immediately suspended by Lampre, which would mean him not finishing the tour.
> 
> A kind of gesture that would be interesting if they simply didn't ride within, say 6 feel of him, so it would look like he stinks or sommat.



Was a bit disappointed to see Froome accepting his handshake just now. 

Lampre have some brassneck even naming him in their team in the first place. At least BMC left Ballan at home.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2013)

Crackle said:


> Jensie d'yer think?


 
I've always had a wry smile to myself about the difference in response to Voigt and Cunego. I'm very disappointed to see Cunego implicated in this investigation, but I still like him. I like his inconsistencies and his failures as much as his occasional successes. I like his style. Yet Voigt, for all that we know with as much if not more certainly than Cunego, that he has been involved in doping, is presented as the face of real cycling, the fans' favourite. He has even effectively branded himself as such. And I mean, sure, who doesn't love it when he goes on one of these 100km solo attacks? But if that's believable and admirable and Cunego's struggles are less so, then we're fooling ourselves. Cunego is as much or as little of 'the real deal' as Voigt.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I mean, sure, who doesn't love it when he goes on one of these 100km solo attacks?



Not as much as I used to. I mean, partly because I've had my illusions about cycling shattered in recent years, but also partly because it starts to get a bit embarrassing when a 41-year-old is pulling this shoot. It's not endearing, it's taking the piss. And his statements on doping have always been a bit mealy-mouthed. 

I half wondered if his kamikaze move on Saturday was his Landis moment. He's been talking about not being around next year but not actually saying he'll retire. Maybe he knows something about his immediate future...


----------



## 400bhp (22 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I've always had a wry smile to myself about the difference in response to Voigt and Cunego. I'm very disappointed to see Cunego implicated in this investigation, but I still like him. I like his inconsistencies and his failures as much as his occasional successes. I like his style. Yet Voigt, for all that we know with as much if not more certainly than Cunego, that he has been involved in doping, is presented as the face of real cycling, the fans' favourite. He has even effectively branded himself as such. And I mean, sure, who doesn't love it when he goes on one of these 100km solo attacks? But if that's believable and admirable and Cunego's struggles are less so, then we're fooling ourselves. Cunego is as much or as little of 'the real deal' as Voigt.


 

There's a fairly good interview with Voigt on this month's Cycling Plus. Comes across as genuine on his position i.r.o doping.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2013)

Someone may remember better than I, that Cunego tantamount admitted to having doped and was dismissive of the 2 paced peloton. He has probably been clean, and hence not as good, since those days. Mantova may be his come-uppance.


----------



## Doseone (22 Jul 2013)

How could Rasmussen be guilty of doping? He was in Mexico.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2013)

Doseone said:


> How could Rasmussen be guilty of doping? He was in Mexico.


Making crystal Meth for the cartel apparently although CAS has yet to rule.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2013)

"@DanielCoyle: Rule 1: Nice guys dope too."


----------



## rich p (23 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> "@DanielCoyle: Rule 1: Nice guys dope too."


I saw a Travel section feature on holidays in the USA in Saturday's Guardian which included an interview with Tyler Hamilton about cycling around Boulder, Colorado. The shot they used was of him in his Phonak kit and bike, short-hair and gazing wistfully over the mountains. Very nostalgic!!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2013/jul/20/tyler-hamilton-cycling-boulder-Colorado
That wasn't the shot they used but you get the picture!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> [Voigt's] statements on doping have always been a bit mealy-mouthed.


 
I retract this. He has been a bit mealy-mouthed on occasion, but "always" is just plain wrong - this is pretty unequivocal:
http://bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/

I've been suspicious of him for the simple reason that if he really didn't know or even suspect it was going on around him as he claims (ie Basso) then he must be incredibly naive. But maybe that's all it is - maybe his world view is as simplistic and his nature as trusting as it appears.

Sorry, Jens.


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> I retract this. He has been a bit mealy-mouthed on occasion, but "always" is just plain wrong - this is pretty unequivocal:
> http://bicycling.com/blogs/hardlyserious/2012/10/30/turbulent-times/
> 
> I've been suspicious of him for the simple reason that if he really didn't know or even suspect it was going on around him as he claims (ie Basso) then he must be incredibly naive. But maybe that's all it is - maybe his world view is as simplistic and his nature as trusting as it appears.
> ...


Terrific article and utterly convincing. Cheers for that Smutch.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Terrific article and utterly convincing. Cheers for that Smutch.


 
Really? The East German track program, along with all DDR sports programs, was utterly riddled with doping. I stopped believing the article the moment he claimed there was no dope there. I am not certain Jens Voigt doped, although I certainly have my suspicions, but I know better than to believe the apparently sincere personal stories of top athletes on their own. We've heard them all before and we will hear them countless times again.


----------



## smutchin (25 Jul 2013)

On the one hand, overwhelming circumstantial evidence of his background and professional associations.

On the other hand, he's a lovely bloke and states unequivocally that he didn't dope.

Take your pick.


----------



## thom (25 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> On the one hand, overwhelming circumstantial evidence of his background and professional associations.
> 
> On the other hand, he's a lovely bloke and states unequivocally that he didn't dope.
> 
> Take your pick.


 
Witch is your choice ?

(see what I did there...?  )


----------



## smutchin (25 Jul 2013)

Very good.

I'm saying nothing. I've said too much already.


----------



## rich p (25 Jul 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Really? The East German track program, along with all DDR sports programs, was utterly riddled with doping. I stopped believing the article the moment he claimed there was no dope there. I am not certain Jens Voigt doped, although I certainly have my suspicions, but I know better than to believe the apparently sincere personal stories of top athletes on their own. We've heard them all before and we will hear them countless times again.


Maybe you're right, I'm not usually naive!
I just have a gut feeling that when someone denies it categorically, in a certain way, it rings true. It was much the same with Wiggins and the opprobrium he would face if he was ever found to have doped. That part of the article rang true in Voigt's article too. His blog would have been totally unnecessary if he was a secret doper and he could just have issued the usual denial. The detail convinced me otherwise it's verging on the psychopathic to invent all that.
He was also under 18 and it's possible that towards the end of the East German state it was winding down the programme or not doing it to kids, although I have no evidence to support that. If he had doped naively as a teen under their programme, I'd cut him slack anyway.
He may get fingered at some point and make a mug of me though, I confess.
Incidentally, has anyone ever voiced suspicions apart from the internet scandalmongers?


----------



## rich p (14 Nov 2013)

Looks like Ballan is finally going to get his just desserts at last. These Italian investigations do take their time!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/coni-prosecutor-asks-for-two-year-ban-for-ballan


----------



## rich p (14 Nov 2013)

spot the tautology! ^^^


----------



## rich p (17 Jan 2014)

At last! 2 years for the cheating bastardo!


----------



## thom (17 Jan 2014)

rich p said:


> At last! 2 years for the cheating b******o!


who what when where ?
I was looking for press on this recently and turned up zilch - what's going on rich ?


----------



## rich p (17 Jan 2014)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ballan-handed-two-year-ban-by-coni


----------



## thom (17 Jan 2014)

Seems BMC have dropped him


----------



## rich p (17 Jan 2014)

thom said:


> Seems BMC have dropped him


Cunego next to get his collar felt?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 Jan 2014)

Ballan is complaining that the 2-year ban is 'too harsh'... I feel for the poor lad, I really do.


----------



## rich p (1 Feb 2014)

Not strictly Mantova (more Padua) related but Salvodelli is about to get his overdue come-uppance
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savoldelli-summoned-by-italian-anti-doping-investigators
It could be concerning Di Luca's mudslinging or his association with Dr Ferrari or USADA and his time at Disco but Il Falco is tranquillo and is only concerned that he may have to go all the way to Rome


----------



## rich p (25 Mar 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Ballan is complaining that the 2-year ban is 'too harsh'... I feel for the poor lad, I really do.


...and he's still got the love of cycling so is going to CAS.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ballan-lodges-appeal-with-cas-against-doping-ban


----------



## Crackle (25 Mar 2014)

rich p said:


> ...and he's still got the love of cycling so is going to CAS.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ballan-lodges-appeal-with-cas-against-doping-ban


Where can you get this ozone therapy, is it only available through taped conversations or can you order it off the internet?


----------



## rich p (25 Mar 2014)

Crackle said:


> Where can you get this ozone therapy, is it only available through taped conversations or can you order it off the internet?


Dunno, I thought it was a big tent south of the river - no that's O2
maybe this then- http://www.ozoneweddings.co.uk/


----------

