# CRAMP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## ian westmacott (7 Feb 2013)

I went on my local clubs reliability ride on my ht mountain bike 34 miles surrounded by £2000 road bikes (what fun)
i held my own with 20 of the slower road bike riders and all of the other mountain bikers and managed to get away from the group i had been riding with. At about the 30 mile mark i started to cramp up really bad .I couldnt stand up to attack the hills or respond to any challenges  I and planning to do a few races this year and was just wondering if any one has any good tip on how not to cramp up.
regards ian


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## Andrew_Culture (7 Feb 2013)

I drink far too much of that High5 zero stuff, that seems to help, we'll that and having to stop every now and then to roll around own the floor trying to stretch and clear my cramps


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## MrJamie (7 Feb 2013)

I'm quite prone to cramp, presumably because I sweat quite a lot with exercise as I believe its something to do with sweating out salts. High5 is good and lucozade lite seems to do the job too, as do lidl/aldi (cant remember which) isotonic sports drinks. High5 have quite a good deal on CRC at the moment http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75413 usually about £5-6 a tube, but they do last quite a while if you only use them on long or hot rides. Also excellent for hangovers


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## Fab Foodie (7 Feb 2013)

There will now follow a lot of posts about salts and electrolytes etc. Whilst well intentioned and anecdotal, they'll mostly be wrong.
Cramp is mostly about fitness or condition. You'll see a lot of cramp posts around now as people get out and ride like billy-o with little or no winter cycling fitness. You'll see almost no 'cramp posts' by late summer. The exact causes of cramp are poorly understood. Go and Google.

So, get out and ride more, warm-up slowly, keep warm, spin more, don't over-exert, warm down gently. Cramps will dissapear as you get fitter regardless of what you drink.


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## lukesdad (7 Feb 2013)

Erm shouldn;t this be somwhere else ?


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## lukesdad (7 Feb 2013)

Fab Foodie said:


> There will now follow a lot of posts about salts and electrolytes etc. Whilst well intentioned and anecdotal, they'll mostly be wrong.
> Cramp is mostly about fitness or condition. You'll see a lot of cramp posts around now as people get out and ride like billy-o with little or no winter cycling fitness. You'll see almost no 'cramp posts' by late summer. The exact causes of cramp are poorly understood. Go and Google.
> 
> So, get out and ride more, warm-up slowly, keep warm, spin more, don't over-exert, warm down gently. Cramps will dissapear as you get fitter regardless of what you drink.


 listen to the man he knows what he's talking about.


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## Broadside (7 Feb 2013)

I agree with FabFoodie on this but would also add that a decent post ride stretching routine is very important to prevent cramping on the next ride. You have got to look after your muscles or they will pay you back with cramp.


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## lukesdad (7 Feb 2013)

MrJamie said:


> I'm quite prone to cramp, presumably because I sweat quite a lot with exercise as I believe its something to do with sweating out salts. High5 is good and lucozade lite seems to do the job too, as do lidl/aldi (cant remember which) isotonic sports drinks. High5 have quite a good deal on CRC at the moment http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75413 usually about £5-6 a tube, but they do last quite a while if you only use them on long or hot rides. Also excellent for hangovers


 Barking up the wrong tree Mr J


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## MrJamie (8 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Barking up the wrong tree Mr J


I know its purely anecdotal and I absolutely agree with Fab Foodie that it has a lot to do with training and getting used to it, but I know when I train for longer distance running that I can run say 10-15 miles in an evening or winter no problem without a drink, but on an averagely warm day I'll always sweat like crazy and get calf cramp every time, electrolyte drinks seem to reliably stop it and drinking plain water seems to make it happen quicker than not drinking anything. I don't believe in performance enhancing effects of sports drinks, but when you do sweat a lot they do seem to make a difference, I think even that Panarama programme admitted to that, but that it was unnecessary for most people


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## lukesdad (8 Feb 2013)

MrJamie said:


> I know its purely anecdotal and I absolutely agree with Fab Foodie that it has a lot to do with training and getting used to it, but I know when I train for longer distance running that I can run say 10-15 miles in an evening or winter no problem without a drink, but on an averagely warm day I'll always sweat like crazy and get calf cramp every time, electrolyte drinks seem to reliably stop it and drinking plain water seems to make it happen quicker than not drinking anything. I don't believe in performance enhancing effects of sports drinks, but when you do sweat a lot they do seem to make a difference, I think even that Panarama programme admitted to that, but that it was unnecessary for most people


 Electrolyte drinks are a gimmick they contain nothing you cannot get elsewhere, and at a better price. If you believe they work for you I'm not going to stop you spending your hard earned cash on them. Have you tried salt tablets ?


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## Keith Oates (8 Feb 2013)

I've only ever got cramp when cycling on a very few occasions , but when I've done some hard an long rides I sometimes get severe cramp in the hamstring area, when just turning over in the bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2013)

Keith Oates said:


> I've only ever got cramp when cycling on a very few occasions , but when I've done some hard an long rides I sometimes get severe cramp in the hamstring area, when just turning over in the bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 AAaaaghhhhhh

btw Keith, I think the OP is using too many exclaimation marks ....


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## Ningishzidda (8 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Electrolyte drinks are a gimmick they contain nothing you cannot get elsewhere, and at a better price. If you believe they work for you I'm not going to stop you spending your hard earned cash on them. Have you tried salt tablets ?


 
"Symptoms of moderate hyponatremia include tiredness, disorientation, headache, muscle cramps, and nausea."

Even the fittest athletes suffer.
A lot of cyclist don't suffer because there is Sodium Bicarbonate in cake.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ningishzidda (8 Feb 2013)

MrJamie said.
"electrolyte drinks seem to reliably stop it and drinking plain water seems to make it happen quicker than not drinking anything."

This is true because plain water without added Sodium dilutes the blood even more than its Sodium depleted state.

"Severe hyponatremia can be treated by infusing a solution of 5% sodium chloride in water into the bloodstream." A 'Saline drip'.
If you are really worried about cramping, get a Camelback with 5% sodium chloride and fit it to a nasogastric tube  The syphon effect should work OK.


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## yello (8 Feb 2013)

A good article here on cramp

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,20192_7441709,00.html

You'll note the varied possible causes but also (as FF points out above) the most likely; lack of physical condition and over exertion.

I went through a phase of cramping on the bike last year, and got lots of eat salt/bananas, drink more water advice (all well intended, I'm not knocking it at all). The phase passed - or I got fitter/stronger, as you like.


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## montage (8 Feb 2013)

Conditioning is key.
I'm also fond of bananas for cramp cure/prevention. My anecdote for this is severe cramps following a road race - I had a TTT to complete in a couple of hours - I was suffering for a while and then a couple of bananas and life was good again!
Fuel well, hydrate well and go hard more often!


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## lukesdad (8 Feb 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> "Symptoms of moderate hyponatremia include tiredness, disorientation, headache, muscle cramps, and nausea."
> 
> Even the fittest athletes suffer.
> A lot of cyclist don't suffer because there is Sodium Bicarbonate in cake.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 Well as he s not suffering from the other 4 we can rule that out then


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## lukesdad (8 Feb 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> MrJamie said.
> "electrolyte drinks seem to reliably stop it and drinking plain water seems to make it happen quicker than not drinking anything."
> 
> This is true because plain water without added Sodium dilutes the blood even more than its Sodium depleted state.
> ...


 As I suggested a salt tablet ?


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## Ningishzidda (9 Feb 2013)

What puzzles me is, if it was his "local club's" reliability trial, why didn't any of the experienced club members offer advice at the time OP was having cramps? The other puzzling point is why OP didn't go to see the medical ( occy health ) department where he works? That is free advice from a medical professional.
The third puzzling point is, if the ride was on Sunday, why did it take until Thursday to post a thread on this forum?


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## montage (9 Feb 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> What puzzles me is, if it was his "local club's" reliability trial, why didn't any of the experienced club members offer advice at the time OP was having cramps? The other puzzling point is why OP didn't go to see the medical ( occy health ) department where he works? That is free advice from a medical professional.
> The third puzzling point is, if the ride was on Sunday, why did it take until Thursday to post a thread on this forum?


 
Another puzzling point is this post


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## lulubel (9 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> Electrolyte drinks are a gimmick they contain nothing you cannot get elsewhere, and at a better price. If you believe they work for you I'm not going to stop you spending your hard earned cash on them. Have you tried salt tablets ?


 
What do you mean when you say salt tablets? Are they different to Nuun, High5, etc?

(I'm not trying to take the p1ss. I do generally want to know because we're on a tight budget, and I need to find a cheaper alternative to Nuun for this summer.)


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## Sittingduck (9 Feb 2013)

I make my own electrolyte drinks...
Google for recepies but basically some kind of citrus type juice, mixed with water and a decent pinch of salt. I use 250ml cheap OJ, 500ml water and salt. Works for me and costs pennies.


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## lulubel (9 Feb 2013)

I've done that before, but I don't want to waste calories on juice, so I'm looking for a calorie free alternative that doesn't cost much.


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## Sittingduck (9 Feb 2013)

A squeeze of a lime to add to the water, instead of OJ? Can't be many calories in that...


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## Ningishzidda (9 Feb 2013)

Whether you want to believe Wikipedia or not...
"For example, muscle contraction is dependent upon the presence of calcium (Ca2+), sodium (Na+), and potassium (K+). Without sufficient levels of these key electrolytes, muscle weakness or severe muscle contractions may occur."

"Severe muscle contractions" is what I reckon is happening.


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2013)

lulubel said:


> I've done that before, but I don't want to waste calories on juice, so I'm looking for a calorie free alternative that doesn't cost much.


 
How many cals in 50% diluted juice (I don't know), but I'm sure you'll burn them.

Otherwise sugar-free squash with a pinch of salt, but again uless your really hammering along on a hot day without food then water or squash will be just fine. I eat real food on the bike and much of that is salty anyhow.
Only on longer and faster rides will I use nuun tablets +/- honey, OK that sounds hypocritical (no it's not for cramp reasons) but I find that straight water isn't absorbed into the body very easily and having a bellyfull of water sloshing around at high effort isn't much fun. Some minerals or sugars aid water uptake ... and nuun tastes nice too!
There was quite a good article posted somewhere recently that debunked a lot of the talk around hydration and performance.


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## lulubel (9 Feb 2013)

Fab Foodie said:


> How many cals in 50% diluted juice (I don't know), but I'm sure you'll burn them.
> 
> Otherwise sugar-free squash with a pinch of salt, but again uless your really hammering along on a hot day without food then water or squash will be just fine. I eat real food on the bike and much of that is salty anyhow.
> Only on longer and faster rides will I use nuun tablets +/- honey, OK that sounds hypocritical (no it's not for cramp reasons) but I find that straight water isn't absorbed into the body very easily and having a bellyfull of water sloshing around at high effort isn't much fun. Some minerals or sugars aid water uptake ... and nuun tastes nice too!
> There was quite a good article posted somewhere recently that debunked a lot of the talk around hydration and performance.


 
I need to top up my electrolytes in the summer here. Even a long shopping trip in the middle of the day has me reaching for the Nuun tablets. A 30 minute climb on the bike has my clothes wringing wet and sweat dripping off me. In July and August, I'm routinely cycling in 30C+. From early May to end of September is high 20s. If I don't have the Nuun tablets but drink enough to stay hydrated, I start to get headaches and feel sluggish. If I don't drink enough to stay hydrated, I start to get headaches and feel sluggish.

I'm sure I will burn the calories in the juice, but I'd rather spend my calories on nice food rather than waste them on juice.

I don't suffer from muscle cramps, but I do agree with this:




Ningishzidda said:


> "For example, muscle contraction is dependent upon the presence of calcium (Ca2+), sodium (Na+), and potassium (K+). Without sufficient levels of these key electrolytes, muscle weakness or severe muscle contractions may occur."


 
I studied a module on basic neurology for my psychology degree, and calcium, sodium and potassium are actually required for nerves to "fire" which has far greater implications than just whether the working muscles are performing properly. My understanding is that an imbalance of those three electrolytes (which could mean too much of one and not enough of the others as well as an overall deficiency, and is why I'd be reluctant to just ingest extra sodium without calcium and potassium) impacts the entire nervous system. This explains why it would lead to lethargy and headaches.

That's why I've been spending money on Nuun tablets since I've lived in Spain - I never had problems in the UK - but finances are really tight now, so I need to find a cheap alternative or cut back my cycling drastically in summer.


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## lulubel (9 Feb 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> A squeeze of a lime to add to the water, instead of OJ? Can't be many calories in that...


 
I assumed the juice was used to provide the other necessary electrolytes that don't come from the salt. (Although I don't actually know what juice provides, only that it is far less nutritious than eating fruit.)


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2013)

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,20192_7441709,00.html
*Expert guide: How to stop cramp*

*Top tips from the team*

Last updated: 16th March 2012







 
Many cyclists will be familiar with the crippling pain of cramp, especially at the end of a particularly tough day's riding where the distance or temperature takes you out of your normal comfort zone. However, as Team Sky nutritionist Nigel Mitchell and physiotherapist Bob Grainger explain, you can stop cramp if you are well prepared in terms of conditioning and nutrition.


"Cramps are an interesting phenomenon," says Mitchell. "People get cramps in lots of different sports, even in darts sometimes because they've been standing in a particular position for a long time. What people have to think about if they suffer from cramps is what are the contributing factors. In my experience, most cramps can be put down to an issue with either conditioning or biomechanics."

Mitchell says that most people who suffer from cramp when exercising do so during the early part of a season when their body has not been fully conditioned. "The cramps then come as a result of the competition demands. Good nutrition will help - and it may actually help prevent some of them - but the main cause can be that the body is just not conditioned.

"If cyclists or athletes in any sport think about when they've tended to have cramps, it could well be that they've had more during the early season, and then as they've got fitter and more used to racing the cramps have become less of an issue. Part of that is down to the fact that the body can adapt to the way that it's dealing with electrolytes and fluid."

Some athletes, though, may have a problem with cramping due to underlying biomechanical issues. "This is often the case with people who suffer chronically from cramps. The nutrition side of things may help them by getting their electrolyte intake and their hydration right, but it's often not the cause. Your hydration has got to be quite poor for you to end up getting cramps because you're not adequately hydrated," says Mitchell.

*The physiology of cramp*



Team Sky physio Grainger confirms this. "With regard to the scientific literature at the moment, the causes of cramp are still not fully understood," he says. "There seem to be some different types of cramp. There's a fatigue-associated cramp, whereas people who are suffering slightly from heat exhaustion seem to get a slightly different kind of cramp," says Grainger

"The mechanics of cramp are that the muscle has effectively become hyper-excitable. The only way your muscles can tense is via electrical input from your brain. It's a centrally driven process with your brain telling your muscles to work. The muscles have little sensors within them called muscle spindles. Their job is to sense the rate and length change of muscles. So if when you're exercising you move too fast and the muscles end up stretching too quickly, these will send messages back to the spinal cord and back to the brain for the brain to be able to regulate how we're moving.

"We also have some little sensors within the tendons, which are called the golgi tendon organs, and their job is to monitor the change of the length of the tendon. So if muscles contract too quickly, these will send messages to the spinal cord and to the brain to get things to calm down - it's a protective function. What seems to happen, and this is certainly the case after prolonged exercise, is that some of these systems misfire a little bit and there's less of the inhibitory control from these two systems, which means that the muscle gets hyper-excited - the membranes around the muscles get hyper-excited - which causes the involuntary mass contraction of the muscle because there's no inhibitory control coming from these protective systems."

*Beating cramp*



Having outlined what causes cramping, Mitchell and Grainger go on to explain how to deal with it. One key factor, says Mitchell, is ensuring that you maintain a good electrolyte balance and that you're adequately hydrated. "A simple way for those who are prone to cramping to do this is to use products that contain electrolytes. Team Sky's riders use a product called Gatorlyte, which provides the electrolytes needed to guarantee optimum function of your muscles, including sodium, potassium and magnesium," Mitchell explains. "The riders can take it without massively increasing their carbohydrate intake.

"We also get considerable benefit from CNP's products. Their protein drinks after exercise are a very good fluid replacer and their gels also contain the electrolytes required during exercise."

Mitchell adds that sweat testing may be a useful exercise for some riders as it will show the concentration of electrolytes that are lost when sweating. But he stresses that good conditioning is crucial, especially when heat is likely to be a factor. "This is particularly the case for athletes in this country who become conditioned to the moderate temperatures we have," he says. "If you take the London marathon as a example. It takes place in April and people train for it during coldest part of the year. Every now and then we get a freak hot day for the marathon itself and runners end up dropping out left, right and centre because their bodies are not conditioned for the heat. But the body can be conditioned to cope with hot temperatures - you can heat acclimatise."

Team Sky's performance at the recent Vuelta a España, where conditions were blisteringly hot, underlines the benefits of heat acclimatisation. Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins finished second and third overall respectively, while only one of the team's riders dropped out of the race, and that was due to a crash-related injuries rather than heat-induced fatigue.

"Doing that kind of heat acclimatisation worked extremely well for our riders at the Vuelta," Mitchell confirms. "We made sure that they were able to train in hot temperatures so that their bodies could adapt to it."

Grainger also affirms that conditioning is a vital aspect of dealing with cramps and can have a much greater and long-lasting impact than better-known remedies for cramp reduction. "Because we don't fully understand the causes of cramping, some of the treatments can be questioned. There are certainly some old wives' tales out there, such as increased sodium intake - there's no real theoretical basis behind that and there's certainly no evidence to show that it's effective. Quinine is another one. A lot of people say it works for them but there's not a lot of quality research that suggests that it does have an impact," says Grainger.

*Treating cramp*



"If you develop an acute cramp there are a couple of things you can do. Stretching the muscle is very useful as that stimulates the golgi tendon organs into giving some inhibitory feedback into the system and consequently help to switch that muscle off again. It can seem a bit brutal to be trying to stretch a muscle out at the time when it's massively tight and tensed up, but that can be of immediate benefit," Grainger explains.

"Also, it can help if you can get the muscle on the opposite side of the joint to work. So if, for example, your hamstring muscles have gone into cramp if you can do some work to tense your quadriceps muscles then it can help because muscles work in agonistic and antagonistic pairs. In other words, when one is working it is sending through messages to the other one to reduce its level of activity. So if you can get the quadriceps working when the hamstrings are in cramp, you will get some inhibitory messages going to the hamstring muscles.

"It can also be useful to stimulate the skin over the area where the cramp is - if you're seeing a physiotherapist they could put some electricity through it - but if you can rub the skin over the cramp or use a cold spray, that can calm down some of the cramping effects. It's felt that if you can excite the skin then the some of the receptors in the skin can send inhibitory messages to the muscle to get them to calm down."

*The strength factor*



In Grainger's experience, cramping can also be reduced by strength conditioning. "Anecdotally - and there's not a lot of evidence backing this up - but certainly from a clinical experience when we get people in who have had regular problems with calf cramps or hamstring cramps, when we put them through some strength testing, muscle flexibility testing and muscle strength endurance testing we often find that they are not as strong as we'd like them to be. Going through a strengthening programme can often reduce the number and intensity of the cramps, or delay the onset of them.

"There certainly seems to be a bit of a fitness issue relating to cramp - not necessarily cardiovascular fitness, but muscular fitness in specific areas of the body and these deficiencies can be worked on. Certainly it would pay for someone who is getting regular cramps to go and visit a sports physiotherapist who is going to have some experience in testing strength and strength endurance around that area."

Grainger points towards top tennis player Andy Murray as an athlete who has benefited considerably from strength conditioning. "He used to get quite dramatic cramps on the tennis court, but since he's been working very hard on his conditioning it doesn't seem to affect him any more. It used to be the case with football matches going into extra time that there would be players dropping with cramp all over the place, but you don't see that so much nowadays. There's certainly a lot more of an emphasis on players being physically fitter and working on specific areas after being assessed by a physiotherapist."

Grainger points out that there is one other aspect particular to cycling that can cause cramping. "Bike set-up can also be an issue because if it is not set up properly for you that's going to lead to some areas of your body undergoing more stress and strain and some muscles perhaps having to work harder than they would have to if your bike set-up was correct. So, it is well worth get your set-up checked," Grainger concludes.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Feb 2013)

Fab Foodie said:


> http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,20192_7441709,00.html
> *Expert guide: How to stop cramp*
> 
> *Top tips from the team*
> ...


 


Fab Foodie said:


> There will now follow a lot of posts about salts and electrolytes etc. Whilst well intentioned and anecdotal, they'll mostly be wrong.
> Cramp is mostly about fitness or condition. You'll see a lot of cramp posts around now as people get out and ride like billy-o with little or no winter cycling fitness. You'll see almost no 'cramp posts' by late summer. The exact causes of cramp are poorly understood. Go and Google.
> 
> So, get out and ride more, warm-up slowly, keep warm, spin more, don't over-exert, warm down gently. Cramps will dissapear as you get fitter regardless of what you drink.


 
Didn't you just debunk your own post?


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## lulubel (9 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Didn't you just debunk your own post?


 
Not really.



Fab Foodie said:


> "In my experience, most cramps can be put down to an issue with either conditioning or biomechanics.
> 
> ...
> 
> Your hydration has got to be quite poor for you to end up getting cramps because you're not adequately hydrated," says Mitchell.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Feb 2013)

Because you know the OP was hydrated enough?


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Didn't you just debunk your own post?


 Errr, no.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Feb 2013)

Fab Foodie said:


> Errr, no.


Ok. If you say so


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## Andrew_Culture (9 Feb 2013)

MrJamie said:


> Also excellent for hangovers



I took a fistful of the high5 gels to the last music festival I went to, they were very helpful


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## lukesdad (9 Feb 2013)

lulubel said:


> What do you mean when you say salt tablets? Are they different to Nuun, High5, etc?
> 
> (I'm not trying to take the p1ss. I do generally want to know because we're on a tight budget, and I need to find a cheaper alternative to Nuun for this summer.)


FFS ...salt...tablet.. do you need a picture ?


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## psmiffy (9 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> FFS ...salt...tablet.. do you need a picture ?


 
or a packet of crisps IF YOU HAVE SALT CRAMPS - (easily distinguished as is somewhat more painful than ordinary cramp) but as has been said above most cramp is just down to not being fit enough

(taking salt in the form of tablets as a preventative is maybe a bit dodgy - I worked in the middle east - at one time we were all issued thousands of salts tablets on arrival with the instruction to take 4 a day- somebody tho noticed that among the expat community that there was an alarmingly high number of people with kidney stones - the tablets and their dispensers soon disappeared and there was not a sudden glut of people getting cramp despite working day on day in 35° to 40°)


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> FFS ...salt...tablet.. do you need a picture ?


FFS .....steady-on old bean, not everyone is familiar with Salt tabs.


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## lulubel (10 Feb 2013)

lukesdad said:


> FFS ...salt...tablet.. do you need a picture ?


 
I'm glad the majority of people on this site are civil. It's a shame about the few bad apples.

I generally make it a rule not to ignore people, but I don't need that kind of abuse when I ask a genuine question (and even add to my post to make it very clear that it is a genuine question), so I'll make an exception in your case. You're a rude and unpleasant person, and not someone I want to communicate with.


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## lulubel (10 Feb 2013)

psmiffy said:


> or a packet of crisps IF YOU HAVE SALT CRAMPS - (easily distinguished as is somewhat more painful than ordinary cramp) but as has been said above most cramp is just down to not being fit enough
> 
> (taking salt in the form of tablets as a preventative is maybe a bit dodgy - I worked in the middle east - at one time we were all issued thousands of salts tablets on arrival with the instruction to take 4 a day- somebody tho noticed that among the expat community that there was an alarmingly high number of people with kidney stones - the tablets and their dispensers soon disappeared and there was not a sudden glut of people getting cramp despite working day on day in 35° to 40°)


 
So, salt tablets are just sodium? They don't contain any other minerals?

That's what I was trying to find out.


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## lulubel (10 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> They are two different things.


 
Salt tablets are two different things? Do you mean they contain two different things? Would you care to clarify what the two different things are?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Feb 2013)

lulubel said:


> Salt tablets are two different things? Do you mean they contain two different things? Would you care to clarify what the two different things are?


Salt is a crystallized mineral comprised mainly of sodium chloride

Sodium is a metal bound with chlorine which becomes NaCL which dissolves in water

IIRC 1G sodium is equivalent to 2.5g salt, that is for every g sodium you intake, you'd need 2.5g salt to get it


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## Sittingduck (10 Feb 2013)

psmiffy said:


> or a packet of crisps IF YOU HAVE SALT CRAMPS - (easily distinguished as is *somewhat more painful* than ordinary cramp) but as has been said above most cramp is just down to not being fit enough
> 
> (taking salt in the form of tablets as a preventative is maybe a bit dodgy - I worked in the middle east - at one time we were all issued thousands of salts tablets on arrival with the instruction to take 4 a day- somebody tho noticed that among the expat community that there was an alarmingly high number of people with kidney stones - the tablets and their dispensers soon disappeared and there was not a sudden glut of people getting cramp despite working day on day in 35° to 40°)


 
What do you mean 'more painful'?!


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## Ningishzidda (10 Feb 2013)

If you're a weakling, you get one type of cramp; and if you are sodium deficient, you get another type of cramp.
Sorted.


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## Ningishzidda (10 Feb 2013)

To measure the salt content of your sweat, collect 0.500 litres and drop a hydrometer in it. This will tell you the specific gravity and therefore the salt content. A normal human being should be equivalent to 'Summer sea water' on the Plimsoll line.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Feb 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> To measure the salt content of your sweat, collect 0.500 litres and drop a hydrometer in it. This will tell you the specific gravity and therefore the salt content. A normal human being should be equivalent to 'Summer sea water' on the Plimsoll line.


The Plimsoll line is used to determine how close to capacity a ship is loaded in order to remain buoyant.

Are you seriously comparing the content of sweat, to how heavy a boat is?


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## lulubel (10 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Salt is a crystallized mineral comprised mainly of sodium chloride
> 
> Sodium is a metal bound with chlorine which becomes NaCL which dissolves in water
> 
> IIRC 1G sodium is equivalent to 2.5g salt, that is for every g sodium you intake, you'd need 2.5g salt to get it


 
So salt tablets contain just salt. Thanks.


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## Crackle (10 Feb 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> What do you mean 'more painful'?!


Are you a duck or a chicken.


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## Sittingduck (10 Feb 2013)

*"Puckuuuuck!"


*That's a chicken noise, incase you was wondering


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Feb 2013)

lulubel said:


> So salt tablets contain just salt. Thanks.


And chlorine and whatever else but as table salt, only offers 1 of the electrolyte family (which are all metals)

Interestingly. Nuun list sodium on their ingredients.

High5 zero and 2:1 list sodium bicarbonate (which is used to make baked produce fluffy, treat heartburn- whiten teeth and clean silver) and sodium chloride(lower on ingredients list)


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## lulubel (10 Feb 2013)

[quote="T.M.H.N.E.T, post: 2304960, member: 20015"sodium bicarbonate (which is used to make baked produce fluffy, treat heartburn- whiten teeth and clean silver)[/quote]

And also remove tea stains from white china cups.


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