# what do people think of jumping lights???



## hero of valour (10 Aug 2012)

...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


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## jim55 (10 Aug 2012)

not the done thing !!!


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## terry_gardener (10 Aug 2012)

i have always stopped at red lights. however the only time that i did go through a red light is when the light had sensors on that didn't work properly for bikes and i had been waiting there for 10 mins and it still didn't change (they must have the pressure sensors set wrong) other times i have used these lights there has been cars there so the light changes quickly.


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## WorcesteRob (10 Aug 2012)

If its clear and safe to do so I always do.


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## compo (10 Aug 2012)

If I could jump lights I would have a gold medal at the Olympics.

A serious answer to your question, what would be your reaction if someone jumped the lights and wiped you out as you crossed on green. I find it strange that you get pissed off when someone complains at you for breaking the law.


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## lordloveaduck (10 Aug 2012)

Depends how hot the bulb is.


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## Pauluk (10 Aug 2012)

Don't do it. When you know the route/situation its tempting sometimes but you never know what can happen especially if you're tired or not fully concentrating. Not only is it illegal but it gets cyclists a bad name at a time when we want other road users to show cyclists some respect and consideration.


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## Cal44 (10 Aug 2012)

U would get three points for it in a car.......

several other threads on this topic in other areas, some say its ok other not. Suppose it depends on time of day and situation...

Most important thing....Stay safe! That includes not endangering others!


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## GlasgowGaryH (10 Aug 2012)

Never jump a red light when someone can see you doing it,then you wont have to ask as it will only be you that knows you do it


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## slowmotion (10 Aug 2012)

jim55 said:


> not the done thing !!!


...AKA knobber..


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## TonyEnjoyD (10 Aug 2012)

Don't unless lights failed and stuck on red.


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Aug 2012)

jim55 said:


> not the done thing !!!


+1


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## MrJamie (11 Aug 2012)

Not unless the lights dont detect me and then only if its safe to, I dont come accross them often though really.

I think its more about expecting other road users to abide by the laws and not take chances with us, but thats just me.


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## Nebulous (11 Aug 2012)

There is a lot of variety in cyclists out there, but I've come to it as someone who has been a driver for many years. With that mindset I regard myself as part of the traffic. I largely don't break the rules in my car, so I don't on my bike either. I don't jump red lights, I don't ride on the pavement, if there are only a few cars at the lights I don't filter, though I would if there was a long queue.


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## raindog (11 Aug 2012)

er


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## roadrash (11 Aug 2012)

if some one else jumped a red light in a f*cking big lorry ,and took you out,. would you still think its okay to jump a red light....... i doubt it


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## Lancj1 (11 Aug 2012)

As a car driver for thirty years, I have on occasion jumped a red light. This has been at one particular fully visible crossroads at 4 am in the morning in the summer, when I am off fishing and I know from experience I will be sat there for five minutes giving way to traffic I can see doesn't exist.

In a car I wouldn't do it any other time but my own moral code makes the above ok.

On my bike I will occasionally jump a light on a left hand turn if I can quite clearly see the road is clear. I wouldn't dream of doing it in any other circumstances.

I wouldn't ever just move into traffic without looking just because lights are on green - what you see is whats there, and you have to make decisions at every junction you are at whether driving or peddling and whether there are lights or not.

I also went into pubs before I was eighteen and started buying fags when I was eleven. I also once stole a gnome.

Sorry


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## phil_hg_uk (11 Aug 2012)

Lancj1 said:


> I also once stole a gnome.


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## numbnuts (11 Aug 2012)

compo said:


> If I could jump lights I would have a gold medal at the Olympics.


Dam you beat me too it.


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## RAYMOND (11 Aug 2012)

Use your common sense, if theres no traffic about do it, if your going too fast and nearly there use your judgement as to weather you can get
across.But on the whole its safer to stop everytime so not to take risks.No risks equal safe all the time. well....


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## Cyclist33 (11 Aug 2012)

Several of the lights round my way don't detect me on a bike, even if I waves my arms about desperately. As there is usually a flow of traffic from other directions, I end up stuck there like a prat. And have to shuffle off to a pavement to make my dash for it.

One of my pet hates! Why can't they sort it out.


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## phil_hg_uk (11 Aug 2012)

Cyclist33 said:


> One of my pet hates! Why can't they sort it out.


 
I dont know why dont you ask them.


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## Cyclist33 (11 Aug 2012)

Why don't people understand when a question is rhetorical.


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## Cyclist33 (11 Aug 2012)

;p


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## lavoisier (11 Aug 2012)

I never do it unless as stated the lights are stuck and then I dismount. Wouldn't be happy at cars and lorries doing it which does happen. It gives cyclists a bad name.


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## Maylian (11 Aug 2012)

Never jump lights intentionally, obviously when they change and it is unsafe / not realistic to stop in time. When I see other people jump lights I will shout at them because it puts themselves at risk and me because it has a negative impact on car drivers. I also witness cyclists jumping lights at ridiculous spots and almost getting wiped out and trying to take the moral high ground.

Personally makes me quite angry...


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## marinyork (11 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


 
There isn't really a consensus, it's something people argue about endlessly. I think some people particularly in London would like there to be a consensus, but the reality is there are areas where you see virtually no RLJing and others where it does go on and causes a lot of controversy.

If you were to take all views into account the 'consensus' would probably be along the lines of what I say on the matter "I'd really rather you didn't" in terms of what different groups could agree on. I'm not really bothered whether other people agree with me or not though. If you went on some of the arguments that go on in commuting, not agreeing with me would probably be a badge of honour  .


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## Rob3rt (11 Aug 2012)

When I read the question, I was already forming a preliminary opinion that you are probably bit of a dumb dumb. I was hoping that the rest of your post would allow me to return to a relatively pleasant state of mind with regards to this thread and you, but when I got past the initial question and got to the bit where you state that you became "pissed off" that someone remarked at you, for being a nobber and jumping a red, then my opinion was massively reinforced.

Seriously....... deploy some common sense!


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## Cyclopathic (11 Aug 2012)

Whether you think it's safe or not if someone sees you it just gives them ammunition to use against us all. Drivers attitudes towards cyclists is bad enough without giving them something more to bleat about. As such I would only and do occasionally do it when there is absolutely no one to see me. I just can't bear the sanctimonious, smug comments that drivers come out with about it so don't want to encourage it.


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## sabian92 (11 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


 

Unfortunately, you're the moron here. It's red for a reason - I know all the light sequences on my commute but I don't jump the lights because it's illegal.

They can shout things at you - if you have broken the law (and you have) you can expect it as well and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. You can legally jump them if they're faulty - but if they aren't they you have to wait. Honestly, it's risking killing yourself worth saving 30 seconds? What if somebody else sees their side is on green and blasts through? You wouldn't stand a chance if you were hit side on at aynthing more than about 30mph.

I know I come across as a bit of a dick here but it is one of my proper pet peeves. Hate people who think because they're on a bike the law doesn't apply to them.


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## lulubel (11 Aug 2012)

I haven't seen a cyclist stop at pedestrian lights since I've been in Spain (other than for long enough for pedestrians to finish crossing if they have to, but normally you can wait by just slowing down), so I don't stop either. If the lights are controlling traffic, sometimes cyclists stop and sometimes they don't, depending on what the traffic situation is. I use my judgement, and stop if I need to, but if the road's clear, I keep on going.

I haven't seen anyone here react to cyclists going through red lights. I think it's pretty normal and accepted.


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## hero of valour (11 Aug 2012)

well it would appear i am clearly a moron......i will never go through a red again....(apart from the one's I know are safe)


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## vickster (11 Aug 2012)

How is a red light ever actually safe? They are there for a reason you know - like a junction or a pedestrian crossing 

The RLJers who really annoy me are those who track stand in the middle of a junction or indeed a dual carriageway and then proceed to cross once all the traffic has gone even though the lights are still red, not that they can see them as they are in the middle of the junction


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## sabian92 (11 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> well it would appear i am clearly a moron......i will never go through a red again....(apart from the one's I know are safe)


 
I'm sorry, but they are red BECAUSE OTHER TRAFFIC IS USING THE JUNCTION. That would imply they are unsafe because they don't expect a law-ignoring cyclist to be jumping a red light. Trust me, a cyclist does not fair well against a bus. See this thread I posted (not about jumping lights but a guy got trampled by a bus and killed): Here

It's on red because you have to stop. If you don't stop then you are liable to be run over and to be honest if I saw somebody jumping a red light and being run over I'd probably just ride past. Nobody to blame but yourself if you end up under a bus. Call me heartless but.... it's your own fault.


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## MrB1obby (11 Aug 2012)

I don't understand why others even contemplate running a red light. It's red to stop you from being hurt. 

What would happen if no one looked at traffic lights...it would be like india where the biggest vehicle gets right of way, do you know how many deaths on the roads happen each year there.


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## Rob3rt (11 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> I'm sorry, but they are red BECAUSE OTHER TRAFFIC IS USING THE JUNCTION. That would imply they are unsafe because they don't expect a law-ignoring cyclist to be jumping a red light. Trust me, a cyclist does not fair well against a bus. See this thread I posted (not about jumping lights but a guy got trampled by a bus and killed): Here
> 
> It's on red because you have to stop. If you don't stop then you are liable to be run over and to be honest if* I saw somebody jumping a red light and being run over I'd probably just ride past. Nobody to blame but yourself if you end up under a bus. Call me heartless but.... it's your own fault.*


 
I wouldn't go quite that far, I would stop to offer any assistance required, but following this I would be sure to offer myself up as a witness to ensure the act of jumping the red light was duly noted as a major contributer to the accident taking place on the police report and to be taken into consideration in any civil action.


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## sabian92 (11 Aug 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> I wouldn't go quite that far, I would stop to offer any assistance required, but following this I would be sure to offer myself up as a witness to ensure the act of jumping the red light was duly noted as a major contributer to the accident taking place on the police report and to be taken into consideration in any civil action.


 
Maybe a bit far but I'd have very little sympathy towards the RLJer.


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## Prestwick (11 Aug 2012)

I detest it and make my feelings very clear about it. If the lights aren't registering you (like at those mini traffic lights on Old Street just before the Town Hall) then I dismount and cross at the next pedestrian green light.

The very worst are those who skim through when the green man has shown and people are walking across the road. You see even if there isn't any road traffic theres pedestrians to think about and the last guy who I observed running a red light when the green man was showing got shoved off his bike by an irate City worker.

Me? I usually say "red light mate, red light? Red light!" every time I see someone run one. Its not just dangerous its bad manners!


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## Ticktockmy (11 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


At least you were alive to hear someone shout something at you,a lot of Red Light jumpers don't, too busy crying with pain from a broken body or worse..


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## RAYMOND (11 Aug 2012)

ok discription of a safe red light,
theres only one i go through and thats near the airport in doncaster.
once your in the middle lane ready to turn right,sometimes the lights on red, but sometimes theres not a vehicle in sight, now i'm not waiting 5 minutes
for it to change when nothings even on the same road.
If theres cars about then no red light is safe.


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## marzjennings (11 Aug 2012)

I often RLJ (but I mostly stop at red lights*) and folks can shout at me as much as they like 'cos I won't hear them over music blaring through my headphones. (Not kidding).


(*at least until the road is clear)


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## Lancj1 (11 Aug 2012)

RAYMOND said:


> but sometimes theres not a vehicle in sight, now i'm not waiting 5 minutes
> for it to change when nothings even on the same road.
> .


 
+ 1 - Using the skills i picked up as a schoolboy when I was taught how to cross the road. " and if its all clear...."


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## sabian92 (12 Aug 2012)

.... and that's when the lorry driver doing 55mph comes along and makes sure a poor copper has to pick you up with a sponge.

Still honestly, not worth jumping over the sake of "there's no cars about". That wouldn't stand in court either, somehow.


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## zippygeorgeandben (12 Aug 2012)

I think the OP has grasped the major consensus here!


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## slowmotion (12 Aug 2012)

zippygeorgeandben said:


> I think the OP has grasped the major consensus here!


Yeah, but it won't go down well the dickheads, will it? They don't like the idea of having their "freedom" curtailed.


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## skudupnorth (12 Aug 2012)

Never jump lights because i know it will hurt me more if it went wrong and it is the first thing motorists say in arguments against cyclist's. The fact i have seen more motorist's do it than cyclists does not even wash with them,they still think cyclist's are the main culprits in the red light jumping games ! It just annoys everyone and the non-jumpers get it in the neck.


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## middleagecyclist (12 Aug 2012)

I pick and choose. That means I stop at about 99.7% (roughly!). I even 'stop and wait' if it would be safe to 'stop and proceed with caution', such as a left turn with no other moving traffic in that direction. I tut and head shake at RLJing cyclists. You see, I think RLJing does the the _image_ of cyclists and cycling no favours at all even it it might _sometimes_ be safe.

Saying that, I do RLJ about 0.3% of the time (roughly). That is two occasions in the last six months I can recall. The first was a traffic contolled set of lights at about 04.00hrs that clearly didn't believe I constituted traffic. I wasn't going to wait on an empty road until the next car came along to set the lights to green for me. The other was yesterday at some temporary lights controlling a contraflow on a NSL B road. The roadworks constituted about 10 metres of cones around some gravel and hole. I could see the road ahead was clear for about a quarter mile and there were no workmen, pedestrians or drivers about to witness by lawbreaking (although there was a squirrel and little later a rabbit in the road and I was able to startle both).


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## hero of valour (12 Aug 2012)

guess what guys?? i'm going for a cycle later and I won't jump any reds....you have changed my views and i aint kidding....i have a certain journey to work and back and there are a number of reds where i know for a FACT I am safe to go....i know this for FACT...but nevertheless i get it and will refrain


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## vickster (12 Aug 2012)

Is it safe because they are pedestrian crossings? If so, hop off the bike and cross as a pedestrian

Enjoy safe riding


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## Lancj1 (12 Aug 2012)

T


skudupnorth said:


> Never jump lights because i know it will hurt me more if it went wrong and it is the first thing motorists say in arguments against cyclist's. The fact i have seen more motorist's do it than cyclists does not even wash with them,they still think cyclist's are the main culprits in the red light jumping games ! It just annoys everyone and the non-jumpers get it in the neck.


 
They ? I bet most people do both ?


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## soulful dog (12 Aug 2012)

Unless you are the type of driver who regularly speeds in 30mph zones, drives up the backside of people who aren't going fast enough, undertakes on motorways, passes cyclists too closely etc, I don't understand why you would even consider it's ok to cycle through a red light (obvious exceptions as people have posted aside)?


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## stephen.rooke (12 Aug 2012)

aways stop unless its broken, no reason for not stopping, you can actually get 3 points on your driving licence if you have one and you get caught jumping one on your bike. hate people giving other cyclists a bad name because there too idiotic to stop.


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


 
Where was this? It will give me an idea if it was me who did the shouting.


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

RAYMOND said:


> Use your common sense, if theres no traffic about do it, if your going too fast and nearly there use your judgement as to weather you can get
> across.But on the whole its safer to stop everytime so not to take risks.No risks equal safe all the time. well....


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

skudupnorth said:


> Never jump lights because i know it will hurt me more if it went wrong and it is the first thing motorists say in arguments against cyclist's. * The fact i have seen more motorist's do it than cyclists does not even wash with them,they still think cyclist's are the main culprits in the red light jumping games* ! It just annoys everyone and the non-jumpers get it in the neck.


 
I've come to the conclusion the main reason for this is that RJL cyclists do it blatantly, i.e. at any point whilst the lights are on red, therefore any car in the queue can see it [the RLJ]. Whereas car drivers usually do it on or slightly after the lights turn to red, so very few cars behind see it.


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> .... and that's when the lorry driver doing 55mph comes along and makes sure a poor copper has to pick you up with a sponge.
> 
> Still honestly, not worth jumping over the sake of "there's no cars about". That wouldn't stand in court either, somehow.


 
And that's when I or anyone else for that matter have to witness it.


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## Cringles (13 Aug 2012)

I've never jumped a red light. I regularly use an intersection were sometimes there are no cars at all. I can see clearly no cars for quite some time on all sides. But I still wait for the green light. I think once you jump one, you'll chance another, soon it'll become habit.

But I do live in a small town, & have never experienced a light not changing because it doesn't register me as a car. Plus red lights are just a bonus to take a sip of water, or check your phone for missed called.


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## benb (13 Aug 2012)

stephen.rooke said:


> aways stop unless its broken, no reason for not stopping, you can actually get 3 points on your driving licence if you have one and you get caught jumping one on your bike. hate people giving other cyclists a bad name because there too idiotic to stop.


 
That's untrue. You cannot have a driving licence endorsed for something you do whilst on your bicycle.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Aug 2012)

stephen.rooke said:


> ... you can actually get 3 points on your driving licence if you have one and you get caught jumping one on your bike.


 
No you can't, that's an urban myth.


GC


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

It needed 3 of you to tell him that did it.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Aug 2012)

Aye, and if he repeats the offence he gets disqualified!


GC


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## sabian92 (13 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> And that's when I or anyone else for that matter have to witness it.


 
Apologies, sounds horrendous. 

Sorry if it brought back any upset.


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## benb (13 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> It needed 3 of you to tell him that did it.


 
Yep!


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## 400bhp (13 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> Apologies, sounds horrendous.
> 
> Sorry if it brought back any upset.


 
No!, sorry I clearly didn't get my point across properly. I was agreeing with you and adding a different perspective to it.


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## dharma66 (13 Aug 2012)

I've been the one doing the shouting on several occasions.

When I was much younger, and training furiously in martial arts, I actually knocked a bloke clear out of the seat of his bike, because he came across the pedestrian crossing I was on so fast, I just reacted instinctively. The lights were red for him, and he passed so close, I just lashed out and took him clean out.

I felt no remorse.

Cyclists who blast through red lights are mostly risking their own lives but if the red light has an associated pedestrian crossing, they are risking my life, too. And that has its consequences.


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## stephen.rooke (13 Aug 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/apr/16/police-cyclists-red-lights


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## User16625 (14 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


 

And I jumped a small river on my mtb where no one can get pissed off at me.


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## slowmotion (14 Aug 2012)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> And I jumped a small river on my mtb where no one can get pissed off at me.


 Not so fast, matey. The fish saw you....and they remember.


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## middleagecyclist (14 Aug 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Not so fast, matey. The fish saw you....and they remember.


But they can't write irate letters to the local paper or dish out punishment passes though!


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## Cyclopathic (14 Aug 2012)

middleagecyclist said:


> But they can't write irate letters to the local paper or dish out punishment passes though!


No, but they can pee in your drinking water supply.


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## middleagecyclist (14 Aug 2012)

Cyclopathic said:


> No, but they can pee in your drinking water supply.


Sounds a bit fishy to me


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

Just don't. For many reasons. 1 Its the law, boring i know but it is. 2 common curtsy to other road users and lastly why would you? how much time are you really gona save to risk getting moaned at by the police if seen, or worse getting hit by some fool in a car whos probably doing the same.


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## theclaud (14 Aug 2012)

Egon Belmontie said:


> Just don't. For many reasons. 1 Its the law, boring i know but it is. 2 *common curtsy to other road users* and lastly why would you? how much time are you really gona save to risk getting moaned at by the police if seen, or worse getting hit by some fool in a car whos probably doing the same.


 
I think curtsying to other road users is taking it too far. A nod and a smile perhaps, a raised forefinger from the bars, or a thumbs-up at the very outside...


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

lol well spotted, could be a bit hazardous too i guess.


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## benb (14 Aug 2012)

I take a slightly more nuanced view, and would prefer to see red lights given the status of give way lines for bicycles.

I think in areas like this, we are closer to pedestrians than motorised traffic, and it's quite possible to go through a red safely, just as it's possible to go through a non lighted junction safely. Traffic lights are really only there to control motorised traffic.

To be clear, I don't think people should jump reds and break traffic laws right now: I think the traffic laws should be changed.


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## wiggydiggy (14 Aug 2012)

Went through a green today and caused a cylist to nearly fall off as he braked to try and miss me, I shouted 'Its green for me thanks!' as I went by. Moron


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## BrianEvesham (14 Aug 2012)

Never jumped a red light, never will.
The End.


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

benb said:


> I take a slightly more nuanced view, and would prefer to see red lights given the status of give way lines for bicycles.
> 
> I think in areas like this, we are closer to pedestrians than motorised traffic, *and it's quite possible to go through a red safely*, just as it's possible to go through a non lighted junction safely. Traffic lights are really only there to control motorised traffic.
> 
> To be clear, I don't think people should jump reds and break traffic laws right now: I think the traffic laws should be changed.


 
Agree, be that on a bicycle or in a vehicle.

Quite possible...also quite possible to go through junctions dangerously too.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 Aug 2012)

theclaud said:


> I think curtsying to other road users is taking it too far. A nod and a smile perhaps, a raised forefinger from the bars, or a thumbs-up at the very outside...


Real cyclists don't curtsy, they get down on the drops!


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## benb (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Agree, be that on a bicycle or in a vehicle.
> 
> Quite possible...also quite possible to go through junctions dangerously too.


 
I think it's a lot more difficult to do it safely in a car, and the ramifications if you get it wrong are more severe.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

why carnt any vehicle turn left at a red light?


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

It was a bit of a devil's advocate response Ben.



benb said:


> I think it's a lot more difficult to do it safely in a car, and the ramifications if you get it wrong are more severe.


 
Are they more severe? 

Car hits cyclist - cyclist dies. No difference whether the cyclist or the car RLJ.

Lots of assumptions about it being safe to RLJ.

How would you change the law to make it safe to RLJ?


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> .... and that's when the lorry driver doing 55mph comes along and makes sure a poor copper has to pick you up with a sponge.
> 
> Still honestly, not worth jumping over the sake of "there's no cars about". That wouldn't stand in court either, somehow.


isnt the risk you suggest the same as anyone crossing any road? im not plugging RLJing but this isnt a suitable argument against IMO


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## benb (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> It was a bit of a devil's advocate response Ben.
> 
> Are they more severe?
> 
> ...


 
They can be more severe, but obviously not automatically.

I don't think it's always safe to go through a red, and there are probably some junctions where it's never safe. I do think though, that in the majority of cases, it would be possible to treat red as a give way line without it being particularly unsafe.

If it were up to me, I would make red lights the equivalent of a give way for cyclists. That is, it is entirely their responsibility to make sure it is safe before proceeding.


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> isnt the risk you suggest the same as anyone crossing any road? im not plugging RLJing but this isnt a suitable argument against IMO


 
Lights are often at places where the road is dangerous. It's the primary reason they are there.

So, no, in general the risks aren't the same.

Perhaps not dissimilar to a pedestrian crossing the road at lights.


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## benb (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Lights are often at places where the road is dangerous. It's the primary reason they are there.


 
Hmm. I would think the main reason they are there is to control the flow of motorised traffic to reduce jams.


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

benb said:


> They can be more severe, but obviously not automatically.
> 
> I don't think it's always safe to go through a red, and there are probably some junctions where it's never safe. I do think though, that in the majority of cases, it would be possible to treat red as a give way line without it being particularly unsafe.
> 
> If it were up to me, I would make red lights the equivalent of a give way for cyclists. That is, it is entirely their responsibility to make sure it is safe before proceeding.


 
Hmmm, do you think that's wise? Responsibility is a big word-from a drivers perspective I would like the liability in case of an accident passed onto the cyclist, and also the cyclists insurance to pick up the tab of any body injury and property damage - which would lead us down the line of compulsory insurance for alll, and all the ramifications of that.

What about a sequence of lights which favours the cyclists? Perhaps pedestran AND cyclists crossing, with the onus of responsibility (as you alluded to) on the cyclist rather than the ped?


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

benb said:


> Hmm. I would think the main reason they are there is to control the flow of motorised traffic to reduce jams.


 
I wouldn't.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Aug 2012)

There are lights? I motor on, car or bike.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Lights are often at places where the road is dangerous. It's the primary reason they are there.
> 
> So, no, in general the risks aren't the same.
> 
> Perhaps not dissimilar to a pedestrian crossing the road at lights.


i think lights are placed due to roads joining and not directly because of danger. there are dangerous straight roads that dont have red lights on them, nor would it be welcomed


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> i think lights are placed due to roads joining and not directly because of danger. there are dangerous straight roads that dont have red lights on them, nor would it be welcomed


 
Why are they placed at roads that join? Because that is a dangerous point.

I never said dangerous point = lights. 

Flip it on its head:
Lights = dangerous points.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> Why are they placed at roads that join? Because that is a dangerous point.
> 
> .


 
its to assist in the flow of traffic, many junctions have alternative means of control such as roundabouts.

I think you are merging two different points


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> its to assist in the flow of traffic, many junctions have alternative means of control such as roundabouts.
> 
> I think you are merging two different points


 
No I'm not.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

400bhp said:


> No I'm not.


but my point remains, your argument is a cyclist pulls out at a red light when there is nothing coming only for a lorry to come speeding along and knock you off. I maintain that is the same risk or hazard anyone faces when crossing a road. You say it isnt because red lights are put up at dangerous places. I cannot see any logic to your reply, i maintain the risk is the same and therefore the two things should not be mixed up as its a red herring (pardon the pun)


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

I think the system is working at the mo all over the world.

Every one stops (*or should be stopping*) at red and go's on green, thats it! thats all you need not well its early/late at night or i should have the same rights as a pedestrian becasue i can wait 2 minuets for lights to change, as a cyclist its very easy to get to the front at traffic lights which means your already head of most of the cars, be happy with that and at the same time be safe!


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

Egon Belmontie said:


> I think the system is working at the mo all over the world.
> 
> Every one stops (*or should be stopping*) at red and go's on green, thats it! thats all you need not well its early/late at night or i should have the same rights as a pedestrian becasue i can wait 2 minuets for lights to change, as a cyclist its very easy to get to the front at traffic lights which means your already head of most of the cars, be happy with that and at the same time be safe!


this isnt the system the world over as you claim. you are allowed to go through a red light in USA if you are turning right and its clear (would be left in the UK) so why cant this be done here?


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## 400bhp (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> but my point remains, your argument is a cyclist pulls out at a red light when there is nothing coming only for a lorry to come speeding along and knock you off. I maintain that is the same risk or hazard anyone faces when crossing a road. You say it isnt because red lights are put up at dangerous places. I cannot see any logic to your reply, i maintain the risk is the same and therefore the two things should not be mixed up as its a red herring (pardon the pun)


 
If you say so. Let's leave it at that.


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

Ok. Im sorry, most of the world then stops at red lights lol


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

Egon Belmontie said:


> Ok. Im sorry, most of the world then stops at red lights lol


 USA makes up for a large proportion of the advanced world


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

Speechless! Are you saying that because theirs more of them, its right to go thought a red light? wasnt that called 
peer pressure at school lol


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

Egon Belmontie said:


> Speechless! Are you saying that because theirs more of them, its right to go thought a red light? wasnt that called
> peer pressure at school lol


not sure i follow you, can you explain what you mean please


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## Egon Belmontie (14 Aug 2012)

You said "usa is a large proportion of the advanced world" but that means nothing, its a pointless fact and what they do/drive/ride will be very different the in the uk.


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## Nihal (14 Aug 2012)

So none you guys have heard about this lady named Pat"5mph",eh?


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## sabian92 (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> isnt the risk you suggest the same as anyone crossing any road? im not plugging RLJing but this isnt a suitable argument against IMO


 
Not really the same because you don't cross if you expect a car to come hurtling down the road. If you are in a junction that you've jumped the red light on then nobody expects you to be there and that's how people end up dead.


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## dharma66 (14 Aug 2012)

As a pedestrian, I don't want cyclists turning left on red. Any cyclist that comes near me when I'm crossing the road on a green man is risking a sore nose.

This isn't so much of an issue in the States as there are relatively fewer pedestrians and cyclists compared to car users. I've known people drive 50 yards to visit their next door neighbour, and I've stayed in a few out of town hotels were there was simply no pedestrian route to the shops 400-500 yards away. When we asked reception how we get there, they said they would arrange the hotel courtesy bus. They were really confused when we said we wanted to walk.

When it comes to transport, the USA is not a good model to follow, imho.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> Not really the same because you don't cross if you expect a car to come hurtling down the road. .


 
when i cross the road and if i did decide to red light jump i would apply this logic to each decision, so i maintain it is the same, for me at least


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## sabian92 (14 Aug 2012)

david k said:


> when i cross the road and if i did decide to red light jump i would apply this logic to each decision, so i maintain it is the same, for me at least


 
A traffic crossing (at least not a proper crossing) is not light controlled. It's completely different.


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## david k (14 Aug 2012)

dharma66 said:


> As a pedestrian, I don't want cyclists turning left on red. Any cyclist that comes near me when I'm crossing the road on a green man is risking a sore nose.
> 
> This isn't so much of an issue in the States as there are relatively fewer pedestrians and cyclists compared to car users. I've known people drive 50 yards to visit their next door neighbour, and I've stayed in a few out of town hotels were there was simply no pedestrian route to the shops 400-500 yards away. When we asked reception how we get there, they said they would arrange the hotel courtesy bus. They were really confused when we said we wanted to walk.
> 
> When it comes to transport, the USA is not a good model to follow, imho.


 cannot turn left if clear to do so

my friend walked to the shop and his neighbour thought he had broken down and gave him a lift lol. i understand your points but still dont see why cyclist


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## Nigel-YZ1 (14 Aug 2012)

Going round Stairfoot roundabout in Barnsley is an education. They may as well save electric and remove the red light bulbs.
The amount of red light jumping idiots is incredible. This morning it was a 44 ton artic driver who decided laws don't count, and followed the rest of the lemmings. Cars with the green were nearly bouncing off his trailer.

But of course it's only the law.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Aug 2012)

Cringles said:


> I've never jumped a red light. I regularly use an intersection were sometimes there are no cars at all. I can see clearly no cars for quite some time on all sides. But I still wait for the green light. I think once you jump one, you'll chance another, soon it'll become habit.
> 
> But I do live in a small town, & have never experienced a light not changing because it doesn't register me as a car. Plus red lights are just a bonus to take a sip of water, or check your phone for missed called.


+1 or have a stretch or a bit of a recovery.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Aug 2012)

benb said:


> Hmm. I would think the main reason they are there is to control the flow of motorised traffic to reduce jams.


Know a few that arn't. Have a look on google maps at this one
53°40'30.40" N 1°16'27.66" W
Definitely one for safety, you would be stupid to run a red, as you cant see the other roads.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> .... and that's when the lorry driver doing 55mph comes along and makes sure a poor copper has to pick you up with a sponge.
> 
> Still honestly, not worth jumping over the sake of "there's no cars about". That wouldn't stand in court either, somehow.


I dont know any traffic lights in the U.K. where a truck can be doing 55mph legally, A roads the limit is 40mph, dual carriage ways 50mph, motorways 56mph (not to many bikes on motorways).


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## The Brewer (20 Aug 2012)

If theirs no one around, If I think I can get away with it, if I want to loose a dick tailing me, if I want to feel safer, then I may consider it


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## mip (20 Aug 2012)

Nigelnaturist said:


> +1 or have a stretch or a bit of a recovery.


+1, there's no excuse for EVER jumping a red light.


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## sabian92 (20 Aug 2012)

Nigelnaturist said:


> I dont know any traffic lights in the U.K. where a truck can be doing 55mph legally, A roads the limit is 40mph, dual carriage ways 50mph, motorways 56mph (not to many bikes on motorways).


 
It was an exaggeration but you get my point. What if something is speeding though? Could be doing 55mph in a 30mph zone.

It's your own funeral if you jump the lights but with the amount of people on here telling a person it's a bad idea you can't say we didn't warn you.


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## Peter Armstrong (20 Aug 2012)

I jumped the lights on my last run, a pedestrian crossing, I was on a decent and could not stop in time, I tried to apologised as I flew past, I felt really bed  Bet they thought what a D*#’ !


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## vickster (20 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> I jumped the lights on my last run, a pedestrian crossing, I was on a decent and could not stop in time, I tried to apologised as I flew past, I felt really bed  Bet they thought what a D*#’ !


 
Understandable, RLJers don't tend to apologise


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## dharma66 (20 Aug 2012)

Nigelnaturist said:


> I dont know any traffic lights in the U.K. where a truck can be doing 55mph legally, A roads the limit is 40mph, dual carriage ways 50mph, motorways 56mph (not to many bikes on motorways).


A truck doesn't have to be travelling legally to kill you.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Aug 2012)

dharma66 said:


> A truck doesn't have to be travelling legally to kill you.


I think you mean illegally, I know I used to drive one, never jumped red lights in that either, and never killed a cyclist nor anyone else. Still had idiots coming up the blind side.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Aug 2012)

Peter Armstrong said:


> I jumped the lights on my last run, a pedestrian crossing, I was on a decent and could not stop in time, I tried to apologised as I flew past, I felt really bed  Bet they thought what a D*#’ !


Read the road better and/or get new brakes pads/blocks.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> It was an exaggeration but you get my point. What if something is
> speeding though? Could be doing 55mph in a 30mph zone.


 
Totally agree. Not something I ever did.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Aug 2012)

sabian92 said:


> It's your own funeral if you jump the lights but with the amount of people on here telling a person it's a bad idea you can't say we didn't warn you.


 
Never said I do, I think if you look at my posts, I am dead set against it, if lights are stuck you can always get off and push a bike.
Excuse the pun.


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## RWright (21 Aug 2012)

It just depends on the light, a remote light with no traffic around, I go thru it. In town with traffic, no.


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## Peter Armstrong (21 Aug 2012)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Read the road better and/or get new brakes pads/blocks.


 
Morrrrrrehhhhhhnnarrr!


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## grumpyoldgit (21 Aug 2012)

At the end of our road there is a main road,with a set of pedestrian lights.There is a sensor pad in our road which activates the lights,it never fails to amaze me how many cyclists ignore the lights.
As a great deal of cyclists are also car drivers,a quick 3 points for jumping the lights would make them think twice.
Another pet hate is cyclists who ride up to a pedestrian crossing,sit on the bike,press the button & then ride across.Get off & walk you lazy twats.


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## defy-one (21 Aug 2012)

Depends on the junction,traffic and my judgement. Never had an issue.
I am always way ahead of the first car in the queue. Try to get the jump on other traffic so i'm not vying for space as they accelerate off the starting grid.
No issues using this philosophy thus far.


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## benb (21 Aug 2012)

Do we not think that this issue is blown out of all proportion?

I see way more motorists jump lights, and far more dangerously than cyclists. In the vast majority of cases the cyclist is putting no-one at danger except themselves. It's simply not the same as a car barrelling through the junction at high speed.


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## Cyclopathic (21 Aug 2012)

mip said:


> +1, there's no excuse for EVER jumping a red light.


Ok, it's the early hours of the morning and you're at a red light. You can see in all directions and there are no cars to be seen or heard. The lights have failed to recognise that anyone is waiting at them and do not change. There are no pedestrians around to see you or anyone else. There are no cameras at these lights. 
Personally i'd jump these lights even though technically they are not faulty and it would be illegal. Combined together I think the above constitute a fair enough excuse to jump. I suppose I could walk across them but I'm a lazy sod.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (21 Aug 2012)

benb said:


> Do we not think that this issue is blown out of all proportion?
> 
> I see way more motorists jump lights, and far more dangerously than cyclists. In the vast majority of cases the cyclist is putting no-one at danger except themselves. It's simply not the same as a car barrelling through the junction at high speed.


 
In my opinion it's a law that applies to both, has different results for either, but like all other road law is not enforced by anyone 
Just because cyclists don't cause as much damage there's no reason for us to set a bad example for others to follow.


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## mip (21 Aug 2012)

Cyclopathic said:


> Ok, it's the early hours of the morning and you're at a red light. You can see in all directions and there are no cars to be seen or heard. The lights have failed to recognise that anyone is waiting at them and do not change. There are no pedestrians around to see you or anyone else. There are no cameras at these lights.
> Personally i'd jump these lights even though technically they are not faulty and it would be illegal. Combined together I think the above constitute a fair enough excuse to jump. I suppose I could walk across them but I'm a lazy sod.


I'd dismount and cross the junction as a pedestrian.


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## Markymark (21 Aug 2012)

I was crossing the lights straight over on green this morning, its a fairly nasty junction with a pinch point up ahead. I was making sure I was safely travelling through the pinch pont with the number of cars behind me.

However, coming from the left was a cyclist jumping thruogh his red liught. He was going quite slow and was aware of me and the cars and I could tell he would be filtering in betweeb the cars as he was well beyong the white line almost at the point of my lane (its a very large junction).

I'm sure the thought that he was being safe and not making anyone slow down, but all he did was add another variable in what is already a nasty junction for me. He did jump the lgihts, and all the rest on the way and I told him saw when I went passed him in the park.

I'm sure people who RLJ think they only do if saefly and considerately, but sometimes they will be getting it wrong without reaslising.


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## Cyclopathic (21 Aug 2012)

mip said:


> I'd dismount and cross the junction as a pedestrian.


Then you are a better man than me. I would add that the above represents about the only circumstances under which I'd RLJ because all things considered and all being as stated I can't see any risk in it or any danger of annoying another road user.


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## Nigelnaturist (21 Aug 2012)

mip said:


> I'd dismount and cross the junction as a pedestrian.


+1


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## dharma66 (21 Aug 2012)

Nigelnaturist said:


> I think you mean illegally, I know I used to drive one, never jumped red lights in that either, and never killed a cyclist nor anyone else. Still had idiots coming up the blind side.


Nope, I mean legally. The implication of the post I quoted was that no trucks would be travelling at 55mph at lights, because its illegal to do so, and therefore safe to assume that you only have to account for traffic travelling at legal speeds.
I was making the point that only accounting for traffic travelling at legal speeds isn't going to do you any good if someone travelling at illegal speeds then kills you. Hence, traffic doesn't have to be travelling legally to kill you.
There will always be idiots, and the vast majority of drivers never kill anyone. Those that do 'kill' people are often as much the victim as the dead person, because the dead person was the one at fault, leaving the driver with their death to deal with.
I nearly killed a child who stepped into the road a few years ago whilst I was driving. I had slowed to 25mph in a 30 zone, because I saw him run our of a sweety shop, and lost sight of him behind parked cars. He just ran straight out. As I swerved, my door mirror actually got folded back where it caught him. If I'd been going 5mph faster, he'd be dead. It would be his fault, but I would nevertheless have felt awful.


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## Nigelnaturist (23 Aug 2012)

dharma66 said:


> I nearly killed a child who stepped into the road a few years ago whilst I was driving. I had slowed to 25mph in a 30 zone, because I saw him run our of a sweety shop, and lost sight of him behind parked cars. He just ran straight out. As I swerved, my door mirror actually got folded back where it caught him. If I'd been going 5mph faster, he'd be dead. It would be his fault, but I would nevertheless have felt awful.


Well at least you were vigilant enough to see the hazard, so many wouldn't.
Long story to explain, but I have spun a small car around the front of the truck, her fault or mine she was coming up the inside, I wasn't observant enough, I didn't feel a thing in the truck, so what chance would a cyclist have with any sort of collision with a truck, very small I reckon. Whats more she was lucky to walk away, the car went across two lanes of the carriageway and into the central reservation, in the evening rush hour traffic, answered the questions the police asked filled in an insurance claim, never heard another thing about it. I still wonder about it, sometimes it feels like it never happened (it did the truck needed a new indicator).


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## cycleruk (23 Aug 2012)

hero of valour said:


> ...whats the general consensus?....i jumped a red the other day mainly cos i know the route well and its a safe move if you know it....someone shouted something and it pissed me off!


 
dont do it! car drivers have to abide by rules of the road as do cyclist no mater how well you know the route..... red means STOP


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## on the road (23 Aug 2012)

I think he will have got the message by now


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