# Garmin Edge 605 vs. Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx



## oxford_guy (27 Aug 2009)

Am thinking of getting a Garmin Edge 605, primarily for cycle tourer, mostly on road, but also on sustrans tracks, however I've also been recommended the Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx - what are the pros and cons of each?

This is what I know - the Vista is about £30 cheaper (though I don't think it includes the bade world map, which would be extra), has a less bright screen (does it?), runs of AA batteries (both a pro and a con - you can get an external AA battery pack for the 605 anyway to recharge), is larger and heavier and doesn't have some of the training functions of the 605. Other than that, are its map capabilities the same? Would good NiMH AA batteries in the Vista last longer than the built in battery of the 605?

Anything else I should be aware of? Thanks! :-)

BTW The cheapest I've found the Edge 605 is about £200, the cheapest I've found the Vista is about £170


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## oxford_guy (27 Aug 2009)

BTW I've just seen this thread, which compares the Etrex Vista to the Edge 705, which gives some indication of the differences, though would welcome other comments. One thing I wasn't aware of - the Etrex Vista has a barometric altimeter, which the Edge 605 doesn't...

Also, one thing I didn't mention before, the Edge 605 is much prettier, of course :-)


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> BTW I've just seen this thread, which compares the Etrex Vista to the Edge 705, which gives some indication of the differences, though would welcome other comments. One thing I wasn't aware of - the Etrex Vista has a barometric altimeter, which the Edge 605 doesn't...
> 
> Also, one thing I didn't mention before, the Edge 605 is much prettier, of course :-)



Any comments?


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

Im thinking about this aswell, birthday coming soon and depending how much money i get..............
Can you put city navigator maps on the Etrex Vista Hcx? 
And is the city navigator as good as it looks?

Going by the garmin site you can put it on the legend HCx, which attracts me more to that then the 605 which will be about the same with what ill use it for. But, if i get the Legend HCx, does it also have a trip computer and stuff on it? Or will i need to keep on my bike computer?
The main thing im sort of wanting one to do is help me navigate on my bike, and also in the car in me and my GF go anywhere(thats not so important though, i can use maps if the gps wont really be any good) and tell me speed, distance, average and odo, if it can.


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## CopperBrompton (28 Aug 2009)

Yes, you can put City Navigator on the HCx, and yes, it has full trip-computer functionality (speed, max speed, moving average, overall average, odometer, trip odometer, etc, etc, etc).


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

Cheers Ben

So, what advantage does the 605 have over the HCx

Ive been looking for a local shop that sell the HCx, but i cant find any, anyone got a clue? I thought Millets used to, but i dont think they have them anymore, ill look when i go in on saturday, should be able to get discount then if i can get it from there, if not then ill have to keep looking.
Where can you get the city navigator from aswell? I dont mind buying that online(would prefere a shop though) but id rather get the GPS itself from a shop.


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Cheers Ben
> 
> So, what advantage does the 605 have over the HCx
> 
> ...



I've seen a number of copies of Garmin City Navigator Europe NT 2010 (which is the latest version) on eBay for around £30, though this is the version on microSD card, not DVD, so you wouldn't be able to view the maps on your computer (but other mapping software. e.g. Memory map, is better for this anyway!)


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Cheers Ben
> 
> So, what advantage does the 605 have over the HCx



It looks much nicer and the controls are probably easier to use on a bike. Also it has some "training" facilities e.g. you can race against a virtual partner. I'm still try to decide which GPS would be best to get...


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Going by the garmin site you can put it on the legend HCx, which attracts me more to that then the 605



The Vista HCx is more capable than the Legend HCx, though, the latter doesn’t have an electronic compass or barometric altimeter.


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## cheadle hulme (28 Aug 2009)

The Vista is better for touring as it takes AA batteries.

You can use open source mapping. Dead easy to do, just connect the Vista to a PC as an external drive and copy the file to the folder.

Download them here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download

More info on YACF http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12998.0 although it gets a bit complicated for my technical skills!


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

Whats the site where you can map stuff, and transfer it onto the Edge 205?
Im also tempted to just get one of these and follow the line, but the option of being able to go out, sort of get lost and telling it to take me home temps me.


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> Am thinking of getting a Garmin Edge 605, primarily for cycle tourer, mostly on road, but also on sustrans tracks, however I've also been recommended the Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx - what are the pros and cons of each?
> 
> This is what I know - the Vista is about £30 cheaper (though I don't think it includes the bade world map, which would be extra), has a less bright screen (does it?), runs of AA batteries (both a pro and a con - you can get an external AA battery pack for the 605 anyway to recharge), is larger and heavier and doesn't have some of the training functions of the 605. Other than that, are its map capabilities the same? Would good NiMH AA batteries in the Vista last longer than the built in battery of the 605?
> 
> ...




I had a 605 and I sold it in order to get an etrex vista, which is much better.
The 605 had three main faults: one, it would occasionally turn itself off. It wouldn't keep doing it like multiple times in a ride, but not uncommon.
Two, it had an internal battery that you couldn't replace.
Three, it occasionally cocked up the tcx file and would put incorrect tags on, this would mean I never got a correct recording and couldn't even import at all unless i ran a program i wrote to correct it, which i couldn't often be bothered to do.
It also wouldn't record unless you pressed the start button, which i often forgot to do despite wanting it to record.

The etrex vista i have now got solves all those problems. It has never turned itself off, takes replaceable AA batteries, and always records reliably all the time whenever it's on. Much better imho. the only not so good thing is that by default is a bit loose on its mounting, but a few layers of electrical tape on the mounting fixes that.


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Whats the site where you can map stuff, and transfer it onto the Edge 205?
> Im also tempted to just get one of these and follow the line, but the option of being able to go out, sort of get lost and telling it to take me home temps me.



www.bikehike.co.uk


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Ive been looking for a local shop that sell the HCx, but i cant find any



amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000UH1YZ8/ref=nosim/coffeeuk60550-21
thats where i got mine from


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## cheadle hulme (28 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> It looks much nicer and the controls are probably easier to use on a bike. Also it has some "training" facilities e.g. you can race against a virtual partner. I'm still try to decide which GPS would be best to get...



True, but the looks improve (slightly) if you ditch the Garmin bar mount and use a stem mounted version. Plus it has the added advantage of not breaking and sending your expensive toy into the road!


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

The Etrex vista was the one i was looking at.
I dont buy from the internet though Bonj you peasant, well not anything as expensive as that.
Im going to try and get one from work so i can attempt to get 30% off it, then get the city navigator maps


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> True, but the looks improve (slightly) if you ditch the Garmin bar mount and use a stem mounted version. Plus it has the added advantage of not breaking and sending your expensive toy into the road!



Where do you get the stem mounting thingy?


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Can you put city navigator maps on the Etrex Vista Hcx?


yep.



Joe24 said:


> And is the city navigator as good as it looks?


it is, and it will enable you to do turn by turn navigation. However, it isn't perfect. I've used it on audaxes where i've used 'on road' mode and it has suggested 'phantom' turns that haven't been part of the route.
What it basically does is use its algorithm to calculate the route from one point to the next, to the next, to the next etc. But if you've used a route creation website/program that uses snap to roads mode ASWELL, then there will be a lot of points, as the route creator has to put interim points in as well as the ones you click on - this makes for a lot of calculation, and therefore a lot of room for error. Remember a computer has no concept of a random curve, it has to be described by a series of small straight lines.

I think the turn by turn navigation is best if you just want to go to one certain point, rather than follow a route comprised of lots of points, then the unit's free to use its own algorithm in an unconstrained way.

If you want to follow a specific route that you've designed, the best way is to design it with route planning software NOT in follow roads mode, i.e. straight lines, and have as few points as possible to avoid cluttering, but have just enough so that the straight lines out of a junction exactly follow the road you want to go down from that junction, so that when you get to that junction the direction of the line will leave you in no doubt as to what choice to make there. Also be aware that what looks like a R.H. bend with a left turn on google might in fact be a straight on with a R.H. turn.

hope that all makes sense....



> Going by the garmin site you can put it on the legend HCx, which attracts me more to that then the 605 which will be about the same with what ill use it for. But, if i get the Legend HCx, does it also have a trip computer and stuff on it? Or will i need to keep on my bike computer?



you can get it on DVD as well as memory card, if you get it on DVD it means you can use garmin's software (mapsource) on your pc without the internet to plot routes using the full maps.
however since discovering bikehike which is accurate and far better maps (google) than mapsource i'm not inclined to say that's quite as necessary as i would have.


> The main thing im sort of wanting one to do is help me navigate on my bike, and also in the car in me and my GF go anywhere(thats not so important though, i can use maps if the gps wont really be any good) and tell me speed, distance, average and odo, if it can.



it can do all those stats and more.


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> The Etrex vista was the one i was looking at.
> I dont buy from the internet though Bonj you peasant, well not anything as expensive as that.
> Im going to try and get one from work so i can attempt to get 30% off it, then get the city navigator maps



tell them to order it, they will do.
what's wrong with buying stuff off the internet though...


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> True, but the looks improve (slightly) if you ditch the Garmin bar mount and use a stem mounted version. Plus it has the added advantage of not breaking and sending your expensive toy into the road!



I'd much rather stem mount the unit, where did you get the stem mount for the Vista Hcx from? Thanks


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

As I want a GPS for touring, am now more inclined to go the Vista Hcx route, espc. if it can be stem-mounted. Incidentally, this detailed review of the Edge 605 actually suggests that if you want a bike GPS more for navigation than training (which is cetainly what i want it for), then the Vista HCx is probably a better option...


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## cheadle hulme (28 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> I'd much rather stem mount the unit, where did you get the stem mount for the Vista Hcx from? Thanks



Sticky here...5 minute job.

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13073.0


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## oxford_guy (28 Aug 2009)

cheadle hulme said:


> Sticky here...5 minute job.
> 
> http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13073.0



What size rasp would you need? I don't have one, so would need to buy one...


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## cheadle hulme (28 Aug 2009)

I used a dremel cutting tool. To be honest, anything capable of cutting plastic would be fine.
Its hidden from view so doesn't need to be particularly neat.


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> yep.
> 
> 
> it is, and it will enable you to do turn by turn navigation. However, it isn't perfect. I've used it on audaxes where i've used 'on road' mode and it has suggested 'phantom' turns that haven't been part of the route.
> ...



Is the bit on navigation how the edge 205 works aswell? 
Maybe i need to PM or start up a new post about that?
How is it best to sort a route out on that? Do it how you say about straight lines, or just log the route on the programme you linked to Bonj(or another one if there is one) and go by that?
Really, i dont think i will need more then a line to follow.
Can you put in points of what to look for, IE a near village or something?
Also can you put in the points of a cafe, and save those into the 205, so if you need one it can point you in the direction of one(but obviously not work out the route for you)


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Is the bit on navigation how the edge 205 works aswell?


Yes. I think the software on them's pretty similar.
Only thing different is I think the etrex vista has a nicer 'odo/stats' screen, where you can choose what fields go on it -although you may be able to do that on the 205 as well, i'm not sure i had it for long enough to try.



> How is it best to sort a route out on that? Do it how you say about straight lines, or just log the route on the programme you linked to Bonj(or another one if there is one) and go by that? Really, i dont think i will need more then a line to follow.



Then what i think you want is to use the unit in 'off road' mode as opposed to 'follow roads' mode.
When you've downloaded a route that you've created (how, i'll get to in a minute) to the unit, you choose the route, and choose navigate. It then asks you whether you want 'follow roads' mode or 'off road' mode. You want to choose 'off road' mode.
The advantage of off road mode is the line that it shows as your route is the exact same line that you drew when creating your route - NOT the line that IT has come up with (IT as in the unit, not the route creation software) that it *thinks* you want to take in order to visit all the *points* that your route is made up of, as it does in 'follow roads' mode. With me so far? ok - the advantage of follow roads mode is that in taking you along the line that IT has come up with, it has a concept of junctions, so it can prompt you before you get to them, with a nice little picture of the junction and a countdown in yards, like a car's sat nav. The *disadvantage* however, and (to me anyway) it is a big disadvantage, is that the line that IT has come up with to connect all the *points* of your route, may be wildly different from the route that you actually drew!



> Can you put in points of what to look for, IE a near village or something?
> Also can you put in the points of a cafe, and save those into the 205, so if you need one it can point you in the direction of one(but obviously not work out the route for you)



Yes, you can create 'waypoints' when creating your route, and they come up as little flags. i know how to create them on mapsource, not sure on bikehike but i'm sure you can.

If you *don't know* where there's a caff, and you just want any one nearby, then there is a 'points of interest nearby' mode where it will list all the POIs of various types - e.g. cash machine, train station, cafe, cinema, etc etc. and how far they are away. You can then choose one and navigate to it (it will have to use follow roads mode here, because you haven't already created the route to follow to that POI, so it will have to create it - but since it's only got one target destination, it can usually be trusted to do it correctly).

On off road mode, when following a route that you've created, it beeps and says something like 'approaching pt4' when you are approaching one of the points that you drew on a route.


for off road mode: what you want to do when creating the route is create just enough points to make the line indicate the way to go at junctions, but not too many to cause clutter (it puts a little label on the map for ech point, so if you have too many then when you're going through a village there will be a plethora of labels and these will obscure the roads, using bike hike in 'follow road' mode causes it to automatically put too many points on, which will cause obsurity. If you don't understand what i mean let me know and i'll draw a pic!
also make sure you understand the different between using 'follow roads' mode on the route creation software, e.g. bike hike, mapsource, and using follow roads mode on the unit itself.


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

I think i get you Bonj.
The follow roads one will take you the way the garmin thinks the road goes, so at turns it could think theres a turn, but the off road mode is better because it goes by the line you have drawn on the computer then uploaded?
Having all the points can make a clutter of points, which can get confusing in a vilage.

The bit about the adding a POI of a cafe, i didnt think it would draw the line to the point?
It does have a POI in it so it can put points on of where cafes and other things on?
(this on the 205 or the HCx?)


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## andygates (28 Aug 2009)

Just pimping my free UK & IE Garmin map: http://ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps - updated most weeks from OpenStreetMap data. Works nice on all the units being discussed.

FWIW, if I wanted to use the GPS for general use (hiking, car), I'd go Vista; if I wanted to use it for training more, I'd go 605.


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## Will1985 (28 Aug 2009)

+1 for Andy's maps. I've updated mine a few times.

Do I tell you Andy if I spot any spelling mistakes?


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> I think i get you Bonj.
> The follow roads one will take you the way the garmin thinks the road goes, so at turns it could think theres a turn, but the off road mode is better because it goes by the line you have drawn on the computer then uploaded?
> Having all the points can make a clutter of points, which can get confusing in a vilage.


yep, exactly right.



> The bit about the adding a POI of a cafe, i didnt think it would draw the line to the point?
> It does have a POI in it so it can put points on of where cafes and other things on?
> (this on the 205 or the HCx?)



It doesn't *show* POIs by default, as when you got to a village or town there would be lots of clutter - the screen would be covered in them, there's cash machines, garages, hotels, everything.

There's two ways of navigating to a POI. one, is you just add a way point onto your route at the location that you know where a particular one is, when you draw the route, and it shows up as a flag when you get to it. Easy.

The other, is what you would use if you're out, whether following an existing route or not, and you then suddenly decide you want to go to a certain type of POI, that you don't know where one is. You look in the POI menu on the unit, find the POI that you want, and just tell it to take you there. it then uses the unit's 'follow roads' mode to take you there, i.e. the unit makes up a new route from your current position to the POI's position. You can then resume the route that you may have been previously following in off roads mode if you want, but your line obviously won't show until you get on the same screen as it or you zoom out, I think it will just tell you what direction i.e. N, S, E, W, you need to go in though.


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## cheadle hulme (28 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> It doesn't *show* POIs by default, as when you got to a village or town there would be lots of clutter - the screen would be covered in them, there's cash machines, garages, hotels, everything.



Mine does. I've loaded a few POI files (campsites, bikeshops, Lidl's) and they all show up on low zoom. Only custom POI files do this mind. And if I declutter the map most of them go. 

Btw, if you have loaded POI files, you can search by file. When in the search POI screen, hit the menu button and press select database". You'll then get a list of POI files loaded and the searches are much quicker.


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

Ahhh right, cheers Bonj
The 205 might be what i go for, im sort of after it more for training with slight navigation, but with limited funds its not so easy.
I would like a HCX with the city navigator in it though, but think that will be too expensive.
(birthday preasent to myself as my mum wont get me anything for my bike, she instead wants to get me a camera, which i wont use)

The 205 i think will fill my needs though, the other thing i was to be able to do on it is to save a route that i do, like when i go into Derbyshire on a ride, so i can store it and do it another time.
Im guessing the 205 can do this, or would it be better for me to add the route in manualy?


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

example: the red dots are the points connecting the line you have drawn on the route plotting software.
i bet you can guess where having the unit on 'follow roads' mode is going to take you, and where you would see to go with the unit on 'off roads' mode.


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> example: the red dots are the points connecting the line you have drawn on the route plotting software.
> i bet you can guess where having the unit on 'follow roads' mode is going to take you, and where you would see to go with the unit on 'off roads' mode.



I get you Bonj, the unit will take you on the curve of that road, whereas the ofroad mode will take you on the line instead.

Thanks Bonj


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Ahhh right, cheers Bonj
> The 205 might be what i go for, im sort of after it more for training with slight navigation, but with limited funds its not so easy.
> I would like a HCX with the city navigator in it though, but think that will be too expensive.
> (birthday preasent to myself as my mum wont get me anything for my bike, she instead wants to get me a camera, which i wont use)



The city navigator you can get extra at a later date. It's a separate add-on and can be used with eithe rthe etrex vista OR the 205 - BUT if you get it on DVD and 'unlock' it to one unit, that copy of city navigator can't then transfer maps to any other unit!
If you use it without city navigator, then you will still be able to see roads when creating routes 'cos you can use bikehike. And the screen at any point will display the part of the line you created that you're currently on, it just won't show the roads as well. For isntance if your route went left at a cross roads, when you get to it you won't know whether it's left at a cross roads, left at a T junction, or just left off the main road, but you'll know it's left.

It will show major roads, but only really major roads - and don't EVER use follow roads mode on the unit without the full maps loaded onto the unit! I experienced this when on an audax and i had forgot to transfer the south wales bit of the maps, so south of abergavenny i had no roads and since i'd drawn a route that wasn't particularly conducive to using off roads mode on the unit, i couldn't see the line. so i told it to direct me to 'anywhere in chepstow', where next control was, which i knew was about 20 miles away, and it tried to take me about 100 miles west and then back east down the M4!  





> The 205 i think will fill my needs though, the other thing i was to be able to do on it is to save a route that i do, like when i go into Derbyshire on a ride, so i can store it and do it another time.
> Im guessing the 205 can do this, or would it be better for me to add the route in manualy?


It can do that.
if you like the 205 go for that, it's ok - it's slimmer than the etrex and is quite a nice unit. But i didn't think it was any cheaper?
If you get problems with it corrupting the recordings or turning itself off i'm sure you could raise a support call with garmin and they'll probably sort it. In hindsight that's possibly what i should have done but i did want the replaceable batteries as well and had someone willing to buy it.


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## bonj2 (28 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> I get you Bonj, the unit will take you on the curve of that road, whereas the ofroad mode will take you on the line instead.
> 
> Thanks Bonj



yep. when you plotted the route you didn't intend to take the left turn, but the line you've drawn strays slightly over the boundary that defines that road - if you used the unit in 'follow roads' mode, it would tell you to take that left turn, but if you used it in off roads mode, it doesn't tell you anything - you just look at the line - which you would see goes straight on.


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## Joe24 (28 Aug 2009)

You can have city navigator on the 205? How does that work

Im going to look at the HCX tomorrow to see if i can get one into work and get a good discount on it.
Hopefully i can, not going to be till the end of sept till i can get one anyway, but better to start looking around now.

Thanks for the help bonj


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## CopperBrompton (29 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> So, what advantage does the 605 have over the HCx


The 605 is more of a training aid; the HCx is more focused on navigation.

A big advantage of the HCx is battery-life. It gives almost 24 hours on a pair of Eneloop AAs, and of course you can carry spares with you for a longer tour.



> Ive been looking for a local shop that sell the HCx, but i cant find any, anyone got a clue?


Bought mine online.

Ben


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## andrew_s (29 Aug 2009)

Will1985 said:


> +1 for Andy's maps. I've updated mine a few times.
> 
> Do I tell you Andy if I spot any spelling mistakes?



you log on to OpenStreetmap and correct the mistake yourself. Same if there's a missing road or similar.


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## oxford_guy (29 Aug 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> The 605 is more of a training aid; the HCx is more focused on navigation.
> 
> A big advantage of the HCx is battery-life. It gives almost 24 hours on a pair of Eneloop AAs, and of course you can carry spares with you for a longer tour.



I had a hands-on look at both the eTrex Vista HCx and the Edge 605/705 in some local stores today, I have to say that, other short-comings aside, the Edge 605/705 beats the HCx hands down on aesthetics, quite apart from just looking much cuter, the unit (but not the screen) is quite a bit smaller (especially less thick) and the controls are better laid out from a cyclist's point of view (also probably better from a driver's point of view, if using in a car, though I think the Vista HCx would be a better fit in the hand for hiking etc.). Also, the included mount for the 605/705 allows you to fit it on the stem without having to hack a mount together...

Given that you can recharge the Edge 605/705 from AA batteries using an adaptor like this the non-removable internal battery is less of an issue for touring. So, I'm now again torn between the 605/705 and the HCx...

The long-term life of the internal battery is an issue, of course, but I'm going to try to get in touch with Garmin to see if its possible to send the unit in to have the battery replaced if it wears out. The problems that bonj encountered with the 605 are, of course, a concern, but I'm wondering if firmware updates would fix some/all of these? What version of the 605 firmware were you running? As far as I can tell from reports, the latest 2.8 solves many (though not all) problems that earlier versions had. There's a summary of the firmware improvements here: http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_edge705-firmware-upgrades_en.html


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## Joe24 (29 Aug 2009)

Im torn between the vista hcx, the 205 and the 605.
Depending on if my work can get them in and what price for, depends which one.
The problems Bonj has are a concern, which puts me off the 605.

How is the 605/205 better for training?
Im going towards the vista hcx more at the moment.

Question is, if i get a vista HCX or a 205/605, can i use them instead of my bike computer and just get rid of the bike computer?

The non rechargable batteries in the hcx puts me off aswel.


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## oxford_guy (29 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Im torn between the vista hcx, the 205 and the 605.



The 205 is cheap, but has no built-in mapping



> Depending on if my work can get them in and what price for, depends which one.
> The problems Bonj has are a concern, which puts me off the 605.
> 
> How is the 605/205 better for training?


The 605 has a "virtual partner" built in that you can race against. The 705 adds cadence and heart sensors and has a barometric altimeter (in theory, more accurate than GPS-only)



> Im going towards the vista hcx more at the moment.
> 
> Question is, if i get a vista HCX or a 205/605, can i use them instead of my bike computer and just get rid of the bike computer?


You could, but I wouldn't use either the HCx or 205/605 for daily use, partly because of the charging issue. I've just bought a VDO X2DW computer for everyday use.



> The non rechargable batteries in the hcx puts me off aswel.


Well you can buy rechargable AA batteries, no?

I'm still torn between the two, though the better aesthetics and mounting options for the 605/705 are very appealing!


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## Joe24 (29 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> The 205 is cheap, but has no built-in mapping
> *Yes i know*
> The 605 has a "virtual partner" built in that you can race against. The 705 adds cadence and heart sensors and has a barometric altimeter (in theory, more accurate than GPS-only)
> *So the only bit that helps training is the virtual partner? Ill soon loose interest in that*
> ...



The thing that still puts me off the 605 is the problems that Bonj had. And ofcourse the price.


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## Will1985 (29 Aug 2009)

The 205 has a virtual partner as well!

If you want it for "training", then the 305 and 705 are the ones to go for. I find the barometric altimeter very variable even when doing circuits, and it doesn't add much to the experience...it can tell you where you've been (which can be done by upload 205 data to bikely), but both can tell you the elevation profile ahead if you upload a course to the device.


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## Joe24 (29 Aug 2009)

Well, i can see me uploading routes to it, but when out on club rides recording those into it aswell.
The virtual partner i think may be useful when doing a TT.
The cadence sensor/hrm i dont really need, i know about what cadence im doing and ive never been hugely interested in my heart rate.

It all depends on if i can get them ordered into work, then ill make the decision i think.
If not, then the 205 will be what i go for i think.

I do like the idea of it being able to tell me where to go, and if i need it to just take me home when im lost, but maybe this will make me abit too lazy and too reliable on it?

Whats the charging issue on them?


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## akaAndrew (29 Aug 2009)

For me, the difference between the 2 devices is quite distinct and so a decision is relatively straight forward if you know what you intend to do.

If you have a touring or audax/long ride bias (i.e route finding/following) then the Vista - or indeed an Etrex - is the one you want. If you are more sports minded, and are interested in how you perform on that ride (speed, heart rate, cadence) then I reckon it's the Edge you want. Whilst the Edge 705 offers route finding, it is (imo) a compromise and if you are interested in it's route finding/touring potential then I honestly think you're better off with the Vista.

I had an Extrex in my early audax days. I liked it (though it did suffer from the known random power-off problem which I resolved by sticking a bit of paper on the batteries to stop them bouncing) and it was great for route following... but I also had a cycle computer to give me speed, time and cadence. PLUS I wore a heart rate monitor with the watch on my handle bars. And then I had lights... so my bars were getting full of bits. 

To me, the decision to get an Edge 305 was obvious. It replaced three bits of kit with one AND freed up space on my bars!


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## Joe24 (29 Aug 2009)

Well im hoping to replace the cycle computers on both of my bikes for the GPS.
Route finding i am normally good at, so having a line to follow will just be simple. Ive never needed a map on a ride before, just memorised it and memorised road names, but thats normally for finding somewhere, not doing a route.
As i say, its just the city navigator maps that attracts me to the vista, because if me and my GF go anywhere and need it, i can use it then(she doesnt have a map in her car, and i doubt her parents have any either so being able to use it then might be useful)


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## Will1985 (29 Aug 2009)

Somebody actually gets it that the 705 is a training device!!


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## bonj2 (30 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> ...
> The problems Bonj has are a concern, which puts me off the 605....





oxford_guy said:


> ...The problems that bonj encountered with the 605 are, of course, a concern, but *I'm wondering if firmware updates would fix some/all of these?*


They very well might, especially the corrupted tcx file issue, as that is mroe than likely a software bug. Garmin might also be very amenable to fixing the issue or replacing it.
However, both these things are 'might', not definitely.
It shouldn't do those things, so if you've bought a unit that has faults you're theoretically entitled to get those things fixed or a replacement/refund. But if it's genuine design fault, a replacement might have the same problem.
I don't want to put you off the 205/605 unnecessarily, it's entirely possible that one that you get might not have those issues or if it does that you'll be able to get them fixed, i'm just letting you know that i did have those issues.




> Question is, if i get a vista HCX or a 205/605, can i use them instead of my bike computer and just get rid of the bike computer?


Yep. i can't think of anything a bike computer can do that either the 205/605 or vista hcx can't. A bike computer is just smaller.



> The non rechargable batteries in the hcx puts me off aswel.


as oxford guy says, you can get rechargeable AAs, but the main thing is that they are *_replaceable_* - so if you are touring or doing a really long ride, you can just take spare ones and swap them.
The 205/605 *needs* to be back at its charger after 16 hours.


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## bonj2 (30 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Im torn between the vista hcx, the 205 and the 605.
> Depending on if my work can get them in and what price for, depends which one.
> The problems Bonj has are a concern, which* puts me off the 605*.



I don't know, but would hazard a guess that any problems the 605 has, the 205 would also have. They are essentially the same unit, the 605's just got more functions.
(I wouldn't be surprised if they were in fact identical hardware.)

Tell you what i'll ask the guy on yacf that i sold my 605 to how he's getting on with it.


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## cheadle hulme (30 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> As i say, its just the city navigator maps that attracts me to the vista, because if me and my GF go anywhere and need it, i can use it then(she doesnt have a map in her car, and i doubt her parents have any either so being able to use it then might be useful)



We've used it every time we've been on holiday. Great for finding your way around foreign cities on foot. If you want to use it in a car and don't already have sat nav, then it fits in most cradles designed for smart phones.


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## oxford_guy (30 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> As i say, its just the city navigator maps that attracts me to the vista,



Obviously you can also get the city navigator maps for the 605/705, if that wasn't clear


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## oxford_guy (30 Aug 2009)

BTW it seems that most people say that the eTrex Vista HCx is better for navigating than the Edge 605/705, but I'm not clear why, as (battery issues aside) the functionality appears to be very similar - what can the Vista HCx do that the 605/705 can't? Thanks


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## bonj2 (30 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> Obviously you can also get the city navigator maps for the 605/705, if that wasn't clear



just to be clear- you just get 'city navigator', you don't get city navigator FOR the 605, and as a different product city navigator FOR the vista - you just get 'city navigator' and it works with either. (but like i say only one unit for each license)


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## bonj2 (30 Aug 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> BTW it seems that most people say that the eTrex Vista HCx is better for navigating than the Edge 605/705, but I'm not clear why, as (battery issues aside) the functionality appears to be very similar - what can the Vista HCx do that the 605/705 can't? Thanks



personally i'm not sure there's much.
If it wasn't for the issues i'd experienced, or i could be bothered to try and get them fixed, and i succeeded, and i didn't need more than 16 hours battery life, a 605 or205 would do me fine.
someone else might shed more light.

There's a specific GPS sub forum on yacf by the way, and some quite knowledgeable people on there as well so you might try that. Not to try to shun people away from here, but just to maximise the benefit of experience.


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## oxford_guy (31 Aug 2009)

I guess what I mean is, are there any differences in navigation capabilities between the Edge 605/705 and eTrex Vista Hcx e.g. does the Edge 605/705 have a more limited number of waypoints than the vista hcx etc.? Thanks


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## CopperBrompton (31 Aug 2009)

Yes. I can't recall all of the details now, but for example the Edge 605 can store only 100 waypoints while the Vista HCx can store 1000. There are other such differences in routes, tracklogs, etc.


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

What's the difference between the Vista HCx and the Legend HCx?
We have both at work, can order them in(and hopefully get a nice deal, got to talk to manager) but is there any difference between the 2? Only thing that i saw was different was was the barometer and electric compass?

Cheers


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## CopperBrompton (31 Aug 2009)

There's a Compare function on the Garmin site that will allow you to compare the specs of different models within a range. (Rather annoyingly, you can't compare across ranges.)


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

Only difference is the electronic compass and the Barometric altimeter, are these actually important, will i miss them if I don't have them?


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## bonj2 (31 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Only difference is the electronic compass and the Barometric altimeter, are these actually important, will i miss them if I don't have them?



I personally say you wouldn't miss them. I don't personally use it as a 'real time' thing because i have a preconception that it isn't very accurate, on account of the fact that i get different readings for the same location. That may be wrong, it might be that i need to know how it works and to take an average, but i don't think i'd miss it if it didn't have it.
When I upload a route to motionbased, it displays a profile. However (a) most rides i pretty much know the profile anyway, and ( it might know the profile from map data anyway (i.e. if you are at this position on the earth, you must be this high up.)

The electronic compass doesn't really seem that good, as if you stand still holding the unit and rotate it, it doesn't seem to rotate the pointer of which direction you're facing till you start moving.


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> I personally say you wouldn't miss them. I don't personally use it as a 'real time' thing because i have a preconception that it isn't very accurate, on account of the fact that i get different readings for the same location. That may be wrong, it might be that i need to know how it works and to take an average, but i don't think i'd miss it if it didn't have it.
> When I upload a route to motionbased, it displays a profile. However (a) most rides i pretty much know the profile anyway, and ( it might know the profile from map data anyway (i.e. if you are at this position on the earth, you must be this high up.)
> 
> The electronic compass doesn't really seem that good, as if you stand still holding the unit and rotate it, it doesn't seem to rotate the pointer of which direction you're facing till you start moving.



So basicly, i could just go for the legend instead of the vista then?


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## bonj2 (31 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> So basicly, i could just go for the legend instead of the vista then?



if that's all the vista's got that the legend hasn't, then prob'ly would, yes.


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> if that's all the vista's got that the legend hasn't, then prob'ly would, yes.



Well work had them both out(only the fake ones with a small bit of info on) and me and a mate looked(he knew more then me) and that is all we could come up with, he reckoned the legend would have a compass on though.
Garmin compare just shows that aswell. 
One is £169.99 at work(legend) other is £199.99(vista)
So if i can get the Legend instead it works out cheaper(not only because i can get discount on them) then get the city navigator maps(hoping i can get these from work so i can get discount aswell) and hopefull, get a nice set up for a not bad price.


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## andygates (31 Aug 2009)

andrew_s said:


> you log on to OpenStreetmap and correct the mistake yourself. Same if there's a missing road or similar.



...or mail someone who's an OSM nerd  and they'll probably do it for you. It's addictive. I was out mapping the Haldon trails today. 

As to features: I don't miss not having the altimeter. The GPS-derived altimeter is close enough, and wacky weather can send a baro one off anyway. We did some Alpine riding this summer and my Venture without altimeter was within 20m where my partner's fancypants thing (605? 705? I was struggling to breathe so I missed it) was more like 40m out. 

On the other hand I _would _like a compass that works when it's not moving, so the Vista beats the Venture on that regard. 

You may also wish to check out Bikeroutetoaster.com which uses OSM routing. In city areas OSM's cycle paths are often better.


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## andrew_s (31 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> The electronic compass doesn't really seem that good, as if you stand still holding the unit and rotate it, it doesn't seem to rotate the pointer of which direction you're facing till you start moving.


Did you turn the compass on? (press & hold Quit/Page key)
If it's turned off, the compass arrow will work by GPS, which works as you describe


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

andrew_s said:


> Did you turn the compass on? (press & hold Quit/Page key)
> If it's turned off, the compass arrow will work by GPS, which works as you describe




Bonj, you forgot to turn it on


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## Scoosh (31 Aug 2009)

Joe24 said:


> Well work had them both out(only the fake ones with a small bit of info on) and me and a mate looked(he knew more then me) and that is all we could come up with, he reckoned the legend would have a compass on though.
> Garmin compare just shows that aswell.
> One is £169.99 at work(legend) other is £199.99(vista)
> So if i can get the Legend instead it works out cheaper(not only because i can get discount on them) then get the city navigator maps(hoping i can get these from work so i can get discount aswell) and hopefull, get a nice set up for a not bad price.


Pentagongps can do you a legend Hcx for £153 and a Vista Hcx for £174, with free delivery to UK, so maybe you can use that as leverage at work .

Garmin compare also gives the differences between Legend and Vista as Legend having no Electronic compass nor Altimeter.


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

scoosh said:


> Pentagongps can do you a legend Hcx for £153 and a Vista Hcx for £174, with free delivery to UK, so maybe you can use that as leverage at work .
> 
> Garmin compare also gives the differences between Legend and Vista as Legend having no Electronic compass nor Altimeter.



I get 30% off at work, but I'm going to have a word with the manager and see if she can do me a deal, seen as ive been told how much we buy them in for


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## Joe24 (31 Aug 2009)

scoosh said:


> Pentagongps can do you a legend Hcx for £153 and a Vista Hcx for £174, with free delivery to UK, so maybe you can use that as leverage at work .
> 
> *Garmin compare also gives the differences between Legend and Vista as Legend having no Electronic compass nor Altimeter.*



Yep, and i doubt ill make use of either, as long as it roughly tells me how far ive gone up, and how far ive gone down, i don't really care.


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## CopperBrompton (1 Sep 2009)

Well, without a barometer, it won't tell you how far you've gone up and down with any degree of accuracy. GPS is very good at giving a horizontal fix, but much less accurate (sometimes hundreds of feet out) at giving a vertical fix.

A barmometer alone is also very unreliable: it's the combination of the two which means the Vista is reasonably accurate most of the time (though it did once show me at 400 feet below sea-level for a while!).


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## jimboalee (1 Sep 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> *Well, without a barometer, it won't tell you how far you've gone up and down with any degree of accuracy. GPS is very good at giving a horizontal fix, but much less accurate (sometimes hundreds of feet out) at giving a vertical fix.*
> 
> A barmometer alone is also very unreliable: it's the combination of the two which means the Vista is reasonably accurate most of the time (though it did once show me at 400 feet below sea-level for a while!).



Agreed.

Which makes the Calorie counter on the Edge 605 a 'pluck some numbers out of the air' situation.

Calories are calculated depending upon the unit's vertical rise speed as well as its horizontal movement.

Expect a 10% variation over the same course at the same speed.


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## Scoosh (1 Sep 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Well, without a barometer, it won't tell you how far you've gone up and down with any degree of accuracy. GPS is very good at giving a horizontal fix, but much less accurate (sometimes hundreds of feet out) at giving a vertical fix.
> 
> A barmometer alone is also very unreliable: it's the combination of the two which means the Vista is reasonably accurate most of the time (though it did once show me at 400 feet below sea-level for a while!).


I've actually been there ... but without a barometer


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## bonj2 (1 Sep 2009)

Joe24 said:


> I get 30% off at work, but I'm going to have a word with the manager and see if she can do me a deal, seen as ive been told how much we buy them in for



see if you can get commission for each one of them you sell, 'cos if you've got one yourself you'll be better at selling them.


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## Joe24 (1 Sep 2009)

bonj said:


> see if you can get commission for each one of them you sell, 'cos if you've got one yourself you'll be better at selling them.



No, my work is shoot and doesnt do that.
Im also not put on the floor with the gps's, so doubt i would get asked, but im sure i can use that to try and get some more off the price


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## bonj2 (1 Sep 2009)

Joe24 said:


> No, my work is shoot and doesnt do that.
> Im also not put on the floor with the gps's, so doubt i would get asked, but im sure i can use that to try and get some more off the price



curious as to what shop you work in that sells bike GPSs, i've never seen any in shops


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## pinsuma (12 Sep 2009)

Thank you so much for the post. It's really useful.


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## Joe24 (12 Sep 2009)

bonj said:


> curious as to what shop you work in that sells bike GPSs, i've never seen any in shops



You know what shop i work in Bonj
On the system we have the Edge 205, thats it. All the others are just walking GPS's
I think the 205's price is wrong on the system though


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## Will1985 (24 Sep 2009)

Given that we see so many of these threads like this and now that the OP has realised that an Edge is not suitable, perhaps he could write a report on his experiences of both Edge and eTrex models?

I've been outspoken at times on here about the unsuitability of the Edge 705 training device for people who want it primarily as a "sat nav" or for touring - the eTrex or Oregon style units are more suited to the purpose IMO.


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