# DELETED



## GuyBoden (16 Nov 2021)

DELETED


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## Fab Foodie (16 Nov 2021)

Why bother? Single speed bicycle chains are cheap as chips and last ages if the chain-line is good and you're not Chris Hoy....


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## oldwheels (16 Nov 2021)

I got a Raleigh Shopper from a recycling place. It had a 3 speed SA hub and what appeared to be a motorcycle chain. Worked ok. I think the chain was put on as they did not have a half link to get the correct tension.


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## All uphill (16 Nov 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> Motorcycle chains seem to be heavy duty and rubust, so can I use a Motorcycle chain on my single speed bicycle. The 415 size Motorcycle chain has the same 1/2 pitch as a bicycle chain and is a narrower Motorcycle chain. The roller bearings are 7.75mm diameter.
> https://www.wemoto.com/info/chain_dimensions
> 
> Another consideration is that I would need to buy a Motorcycle chain with the correct amount of links including a split link, so I wouldn't need to get a Motorcycle chain splitter.
> ...


I think @silva is the person to ask.


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## ColinJ (16 Nov 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> I'm using a proper Dolan track bike on my training rollers, the cheap single speed chains stretch quickly.


If you have a proper track bike, does chain stretch matter - can't you just move the wheel back to take up the slack?


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## Brandane (16 Nov 2021)

The chain for my motorcycle probably weighs as much as some bikes, so you might not want to try a Honda VFR 800 chain!


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## silva (18 Nov 2021)

Strength is of little importance considering just leg power.
The reason I tried this, was to decrease the lengthening rate of the chain, because that eats more expensive sprockets.
Longer pens, thicker plates have bigger mating surfaces, so a same amount scraped off material is divided over a larger surface, and thereby less in the length direction.
Over a month I will be riding 2 years with such type 420, I choosed a Regina Urban OROY. The first one has run about 35000 km (20 months, every day, 60 km)
There's one little issue: the pin diameter is slightly larger than bicycle standard, so using a bicyle chain hreaker can get jammed.
I adjusted one by drilling out the hole to 4 mm (the pen diameter is 3.97) and that worked.
Though I just started to use a punch and a hammer to remove links, it's less work, less risky. I took a steel block, drilled a hole in it, as to be able to hammer a pen through.


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## keithmac (18 Nov 2021)

You can split that quite easily, grind the rivets flush and use a dispensable screwdriver/ chisel to ping the plate off.

The Shimano Ebike chain may have been a better choice?.


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## keithmac (18 Nov 2021)

The motorcycle sprockets are considerably thicker than a bicycle sprocket / chainring mind.


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## ColinJ (18 Nov 2021)

silva said:


> Strength is of little importance considering just leg power.


Usually, though very powerful legs and very poor cycling technique can destroy chains. I've seen it done, after warning the rider in question that unless he changed the way that he rode, he would kill his chain. He didn't, and he did!


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## keithmac (19 Nov 2021)

DID is best of the bunch as the OP has already bought.


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## silva (19 Nov 2021)

keithmac said:


> The motorcycle sprockets are considerably thicker than a bicycle sprocket / chainring mind.


I searched alot for a motorcycle sprocket as chainring, but I couldn't find any for my configuration.


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## keithmac (20 Nov 2021)

silva said:


> I searched alot for a motorcycle sprocket as chainring, but I couldn't find any for my configuration.



I think it would be an engineering job to modify one, you'd want a rear sprocket as the front chainring but modifying a motorcycle front sprocket to fit a bicycle rear wheel would require an adaptor and a lot of work!.

Saying all that you'd be hard pressed to wear them out. JT sprockets are very hard wearing.


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## silva (20 Nov 2021)

keithmac said:


> I think it would be an engineering job to modify one, you'd want a rear sprocket as the front chainring but modifying a motorcycle front sprocket to fit a bicycle rear wheel would require an adaptor and a lot of work!.
> 
> Saying all that you'd be hard pressed to wear them out. JT sprockets are very hard wearing.


I asked JT sprockets. They had 1 candidate for my gear:


> Thank you for your enquiry.
> JT produce final drive sprockets for motorcycle and ATV applications, and we do not offer products for bicycle fitments. Our steel rear sprockets are made from C49 high carbon steel.
> 
> We produce one sprocket that matches your 130mm bolt hole PCD, 420 chain size and 47 tooth count, part number JTR215. Please follow the link below for more information.
> ...


The BCD is 130 mm, but only 4 mount holes, while mine is 5.

About wear, my experience is that the major determiner is the chains wear.
Even a hard wearing sprocket can be worn easily by a worn chain.
Imagine that a sprocket would not wear at all, the teeth would not insert in the links. Something is gotta give, and a chain outnumbers a sprocket, in amount links versus teeth, and metal mass.


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## silva (21 Nov 2021)

Ofc it isn't essential, one can run any wider chain on any narrower sprocket and the pitch is indeed most important.
Nevertheless, a correct pitch doesn't imply a suitable chain, there are chains that have a larger roller diameter which renders these incompatible.
For ex, years ago I bought some stainless steel roller chains on a flea market together with a whole bag quicklinks dirtcheap, with the idea to mount such one in winter with salty roads. I tried to mount one as a test, I could lay the chain on the ring, but after so many links the rollers didn't drop to the valleys between the teeth anymore. Later on I found in specs of the in steel printed numbers this as reason. It was an industrial chain. JFYI.

Edit: looked it up - I store data in .txt files for later reference.
The printed type was 8BSS
The specs were:

Pitch (P): 1/2"
Roller Width (b1): 0.305 = 7.747 mm
*Roller Diameter (d1): 0.335 = 8.509 mm*
Overall Width: (L): 0.669 = 16.9926 mm
Pin Diameter (d2): 0.175 = 4.445 mm
Link Plate Height (h2): 0.472 = 11.9888 mm
Link Plate Thickness (T): 0.060 = 1.524 mm
Average Tensile Strength (LBS): 2,727

*That* roller diameter, 8.509 mm.
5/16" * 25.4 mm = 7,9375 mm.
So, that industrial chain 8BSS had rollers of 0,5715 mm larger than bicycle / motorcycle specifications.


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## T4tomo (23 Nov 2021)

Chains don't stretch, they wear. They are made of steel, not elastic.

The OP will probably find it was his nuts slipping moving the wheel marginally in the frame.


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## silva (2 Dec 2021)

Can't you just "measure" the wear by looking at the chain tensioner position?


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## keithmac (2 Dec 2021)

silva said:


> Can't you just "measure" the wear by looking at the chain tensioner position?



That's what youd do with a Motorcycle or single speed bicycle. 

The chain stretch tools are for derailleur equipped bikes from what I can see.


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## ColinJ (2 Dec 2021)

silva said:


> Can't you just "measure" the wear by looking at the chain tensioner position?


It is surprising how quickly the wear happens. This picture shows a new chain and one that had only done a few hundred km!


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## Juan Kog (3 Dec 2021)

ColinJ said:


> It is surprising how quickly the wear happens. This picture shows a new chain and one that had only done a few hundred km!
> 
> View attachment 620309


But you are the mighty and powerful @ColinJ , the trasher of bike transmissions. Us lesser mortals will get thousands of KM’s out of a chain …………….


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## sasquath (3 Dec 2021)

ColinJ said:


> It is surprising how quickly the wear happens. This picture shows a new chain and one that had only done a few hundred km!
> 
> View attachment 620309


That's because chain on top picture is clearly overtensioned. Even 428 motorcycle chain would wear in no time when tensioned like a guitar string.


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## ColinJ (3 Dec 2021)

sasquath said:


> That's because chain on top picture is clearly overtensioned. Even 428 motorcycle chain would wear in no time when tensioned like a guitar string.


The chain actually wasn't quite as tight as it looks there. I've had a look back in my photos and found another one taken a few seconds later. You can see that there is actually a few mm of droop in the top run of chain...






The chain wasn't really being tensioned by the tensioner at all in the top picture. The chain was almost skipping over the jockey wheel because it was barely engaged. I had tried it with the tensioner raised but it WAS too tight then - the chain was noisy and didn't run smoothly.

Once the chain has lengthened slightly I don't take up all of the slack. I normally run it with about 8 mm of droop in the top of the chain.


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## silva (4 Dec 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> Well, maybe, due to the roller diameter being 5/16" for 1/8" single speed chains and 3/16" for 3/32" derailleur chains, the chain checker tool wouldn't be as accurate, maybe out by 2/16", but that's still good enough for me.


The roller diameters for single and derailleurs should be the same.
The 1/8" measurement refers the internal width, nearly the roller "thickness", not its diameter..

About the chain tension, any variation you could notice?

That pre-stressed, pre-tensioned, I've read that too here and there, afaik that can only be rubbish, except when the new parts would have been produced to give a smaller pitch, to then reach the standard pitch. If not, the new chain would immediately wear the sprockets to accomodate the longer pitch, voiding the very purpose of wear decrease.


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## silva (6 Dec 2021)

Btw, if you want least wear / cost, it's an idea to flip the chainring on its mount when you see sharkfin shaped teeth profile starts to form.
Because the hook form resists the disengaging of the links, aggravating the wear and accelerating the sharkfin shaping.
Same for rear cog.
Also for chainring: the teeth perpendicular to the crank arms wear more because peak force is applied in horizontal crank arm positions.
So rotate it 90 degrees on its mount, with 4-5 chainring bolts, 1.

I made flipping easier by replacing the silly small bolts (crap sleeved nut requiring special tool and care to not damage it), with standard outer hexagon headed M10 x required length bolts + nuts.
I put the bolt heads at the side of the chainrings ridges, they *just* have the required space avail, result is no key (17 mm) needed at that side, only one at the nut side.
Much easier to mount/unmount the ring, and also nearly impossible to damage bolts/nuts. And cheap.


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## sasquath (7 Dec 2021)

silva said:


> Also for chainring: the teeth perpendicular to the crank arms wear more because peak force is applied in horizontal crank arm positions.
> So rotate it 90 degrees on its mount, with 4-5 chainring bolts, 1.


Last time I checked chain wraps around 180⁰ of the chainring -> wear is equal across all teeth.


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## ColinJ (7 Dec 2021)

sasquath said:


> Last time I checked chain wraps around 180⁰ of the chainring -> wear is equal across all teeth.


Only when the chain hasn't worn. Once the chain is slightly longer only a few teeth are fully engaging at any time and the force acting on the chain is not constant through a complete cycle of the cranks therefore some teeth have more force applied to them than others.


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## T4tomo (7 Dec 2021)

GuyBoden said:


> Yes, we use the term stretching, but we all know it really is the metal wearing. The metal between the rivets and the bushes wears first.





GuyBoden said:


> The RK415 is also pre-stretched, which might be helpful.
> https://www.xlmoto.co.uk/mc-parts/c...s-415-630_c155/rk-415hsb-chain_pid-PM-4907102
> Quote: "All 415H chains are pre-stressed and pre-stretched for superior performance and to minimise lengthening of the chain during its life."


how the fantastic mr. fox can a chain be pre-stretched. That is just utter marketing cobblers.


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## silva (7 Dec 2021)

sasquath said:


> Last time I checked chain wraps around 180⁰ of the chainring -> wear is equal across all teeth.


A cyclist doesn't put a constant torque alike a motor.
Two pedals, most force downwards, two force max, two force min, 4 quadrants, seen from the chainring: 2 cycles.


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## silva (26 Dec 2021)

keithmac said:


> You can split that quite easily, grind the rivets flush and use a dispensable screwdriver/ chisel to ping the plate off.
> 
> The Shimano Ebike chain may have been a better choice?.


Yes I know, but doing that is destroying the link, I need 106 links, the Regina 420's I found for sale at the best price were much longer so I plan to hammer one together with the unused remainders.


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