# Tyre width and loose rock



## lulubel (16 Oct 2012)

I'll stop hogging this board eventually, I promise!

When I was out on the trails yesterday, I realised the thing I find most unnerving is when the wheels "skitter" sideways as loose stone/rock pings out from underneath them. The back doesn't bother me so much because I understand it will sort itself out and follow the front, but I have an anxious moment every time the front does it, which results in a lot of anxious moments!

I'm currently running 1.95" tyres, which I think are quite narrow for a MTB, and the pressure is usually somewhere between 25-30psi. My new bike has 2.25" tyres fitted as standard.

Will I notice less skittering with wider tyres, or is it one of those things I'm just going to have to learn to live with?


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## Motozulu (16 Oct 2012)

I'll answer but can't promise to be much help! 

My current (and first) bike also has 2.25" tyres and they do seem great on the loose stuff - there is a fair bit of loose gravel on some descents at cannock and though the rear will slide a bit the front has been rock solid - as you rightly say it's only the front you need to worry about. Where they HAVE caused me problems is in the mud - which is how I did my knee - but I have no idea if the mud situation is normal/due to my tyre size or due to my tyre make. I run them between 35 and 40 psi.


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## Cubist (16 Oct 2012)

25-30 psi is about right for a bloke on tubeless tyres. You could try reducing pressure a bit, as you aren't very heavy, but you do risk pinchflats at low levels. Tubeless is an option, but I can't remember what rims you'll have on the new bike. You will notice a difference in the Schwalbes that Cubes always come with, as they are a great grippy front tyre. Run as low as you dare, the pinging is often a sign that your tyres are too pumped up, but I am pretty sure that your new setup will be far grippier than you currently describe. Don't forget that your new fork, once setup properly, will track rather than bounce, so your currently cattled fork may well be a contributor.


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## Bobario (16 Oct 2012)

You could try putting a slightly wider tyre on the front. That way the back should slip before the front does.
re the rocks pinging out from under your tyres, I presume you mean single loose rocks rather than gravel/trail detritus kind of stuff? You could lower your tyre pressure, which would help, but the best way to stop this is not run them over in the first place. Easier said than done though.


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Oct 2012)

compound makes almost as much difference as width in the grip stakes. with two tyres of the same compound tread pattern can then make a significant difference. I run wider up front than on the rear because the front steers and I want the biggest possible contact patch on the steering bit.

but you've got to relax, and let it skitter, and let it shoot stones out to the side, it isn't going to track like a road bike on tarmac (and anyway wait till you start drifting it )

and you're more likely to find a solution to the arab-israeli conflict than get consensus from mtb-ers about tyres.


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## Motozulu (17 Oct 2012)

> and you're more likely to find a solution to the arab-israeli conflict than get consensus from mtb-ers about tyres.


 
This!  I've trawled tinterweb MTB forums and searched for 'best tyre' threads on all of 'em. I've decided that when it comes to new tyres in the spring I'm just going to settle on a budget and then go out and put the two tyres on that leave the prettiest tyre tread pattern in the sandy bits of the trails. Seems as good a method as any.


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## zizou (17 Oct 2012)

1.95" is quite narrow these days but compound and profile are as important and these are terrain and condition dependent too. Some tyres are great for mud (these tend to be narrower), some for hardpark, some for rocks etc. What i would use in Scotland is going to be different to what would be suitable for rocky trails in Spain.

Different companies size there tyres different too - a Maxxis 2.35 comes up equivalent to about a 2.1 on other brands. Maxxis tend to be a bit 'taller' though


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## Lee_M (17 Oct 2012)

go faster

HTH


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## Motozulu (17 Oct 2012)

Lee - ha ha - the amount of times my more experienced mates have said that to me.......easier said than done when you are bricking it on some downhill wet cobbles. As for compounds and tread patterns? well you're a bit buggered if the trail you're on has a bit of everything? just have to go with what you've got - it sounds to me like people think too much about it when really it's as much down to skill/confidence/experience of the rider more than what type of rubber is used.



*possibly*


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## lulubel (17 Oct 2012)

Thanks for the replies, guys. Yes, I know tyre choice is incredibly complicated and surface specific, and what suits one person's riding style won't suit another's, etc, etc. I suppose what it comes down to is "wait and see", but that's very hard!



Cubist said:


> 25-30 psi is about right for a bloke on tubeless tyres. You could try reducing pressure a bit, as you aren't very heavy, but you do risk pinchflats at low levels. Tubeless is an option, but I can't remember what rims you'll have on the new bike. You will notice a difference in the Schwalbes that Cubes always come with, as they are a great grippy front tyre. Run as low as you dare, the pinging is often a sign that your tyres are too pumped up, but I am pretty sure that your new setup will be far grippier than you currently describe. Don't forget that your new fork, once setup properly, will track rather than bounce, so your currently cattled fork may well be a contributor.


 
Yes, I'm assuming the forks will make a massive difference too. The current forks are slow to respond to surface variation, even if they respond at all, so hopefully I'll find a lot of it will be absorbed by the lovely Rebas. I've reduced the pressure as much as I dare, to be honest. I'm not certain about the 25-30psi. They could be a bit softer, but I still haven't got around to getting a pump with a pressure gauge. I'll pop into the lbs tomorrow and see if he can sell me something decent without charging me a fortune for it - or it's back to CRC/Wiggle!

I don't think I'll go tubeless even if it's an option. If I damage the tyres badly enough for them to go flat running tubeless, I'll be a bit stuck if I'm halfway up a mountain. At least, if I've got a tube and a tyre boot, I've got a chance of being able to patch it well enough to get me home.



Bobario said:


> re the rocks pinging out from under your tyres, I presume you mean single loose rocks rather than gravel/trail detritus kind of stuff? You could lower your tyre pressure, which would help, but the best way to stop this is not run them over in the first place. Easier said than done though.


 
They are loose rocks, but they're not single ones! I'd certainly avoid them if I could.



Motozulu said:


> As for compounds and tread patterns? well you're a bit buggered if the trail you're on has a bit of everything? just have to go with what you've got - it sounds to me like people think too much about it when really it's as much down to skill/confidence/experience of the rider more than what type of rubber is used.


 
I think some tyres are probably better all-rounders - jack of all trades, master of none, maybe - and if you're on a very varied surface, you just have to find some that will do an OK job. I do agree about experience being the most important thing, but when you're at the limits of your current ability (whatever that is), I guess small things can still help.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Oct 2012)

lulubel. DO NOT rely on a pump with a pressure gauge when setting your tyre pressures so low. Notoriously inconsistent, espcailly over time, and inaccurate. Digital tyre pressure gauge is the way to go.

and you'll be wanting a (seperate) shock pump for your rebas, unless your new bike comes with same. I've a canyon one going spare (I've already got a topeak for the rebas on the boardman) for the price of posting it to you.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> This!  I've trawled tinterweb MTB forums and searched for 'best tyre' threads on all of 'em. I've decided that when it comes to new tyres in the spring I'm just going to settle on a budget and then go out and put the two tyres on that leave the prettiest tyre tread pattern in the sandy bits of the trails. Seems as good a method as any.


I always stick with Conti's








or Bontragers









or Schwalbes now I've got a Canyon.

Dang it's hard to stay true to your convictions.


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## Cubist (17 Oct 2012)

No it isn't. Apart from the Contis, Maxxis, Panaracer and Kendas, I have always used Schwalbe.

Now I've tried a few I have a default tyre, which is a Nobby Nic Snakeskin.


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## billflat12 (17 Oct 2012)

Could be combination of things,forks, tyres , braking technique, once your forks are setup correctly you can probably rule forks out, tyres vary wildly ,( check out reviews on the new tyres for suitability) less grippier tyres tend to roll better and loose grip progressively , whereas grippier tyres let go suddenly with less warning, try to avoid braking on loose corners, maybe practice balanced braking on a more forgiving surface until you develop more feel & able to brake/ease off smoothly, You shouldnt worry too much as It,s going to be a complete revelation once you get to ride a real bike instead of a toy.


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## VamP (18 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> lulubel. *DO NOT rely on a pump with a pressure gauge* when setting your tyre pressures so low. Notoriously inconsistent, espcailly over time, and inaccurate. Digital tyre pressure gauge is the way to go.
> 
> and you'll be wanting a (seperate) shock pump for your rebas, unless your new bike comes with same. I've a canyon one going spare (I've already got a topeak for the rebas on the boardman) for the price of posting it to you.


 

This.


Pump gauges measure pressure in the pump, not in the tyre and it's easy to be 30 psi out. A little digital checker like this one is what you want.

You guys think MTB tyre choice is strewn with pitfalls, you should visit the cyclocrosser's weekly dilemma. Tufo, Challenge, Dugast, FMB??? Diamond file, intermediate, mud or supermud? Pressures, pressures, pressures? 32mm tubs at 20 psi are quite an experience, feels like you're riding on rims half the time, but in certain conditions going from 25 to 20 psi can give you miraculous velcro like grip versus no grip at all.

Good thing about going from CX to MTB, is that you marvel at how much grip is suddenly available. I ride my MTB at around 22-25 front, 27-29 rear, and I am not light at 12.5 stone.


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Oct 2012)

These days, as I don't race*, I tend to think in terms of seasonal tyres rather than condition specific ones. This means of course than 2012 has been Winter - Spring - Spring - Autumn - Winter - Winter - Winter - Winter - Autumn so far in terms of tyre choice.

*but the idea of taking part, for fun on a strictly non-competitive basis, in some gravity enduro stuff next year appeals.


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## Lee_M (18 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Lee - ha ha - the amount of times my more experienced mates have said that to me.......easier said than done when you are bricking it on some downhill wet cobbles. *


 
oh I know

My first real experience of downhill was in Greece recently, it was all loose rocks and boulders with big cliffs as a warning if you got it wrong!

Faster did help as your front wheel floats over more of the terrain and it has less effect

you do need bigger balls though, and I did nearly crap myself a couple of times


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Oct 2012)

Lee_M said:


> oh I know
> 
> My first real experience of downhill was in Greece recently, it was all loose rocks and boulders with big cliffs as a warning if you got it wrong!
> 
> ...


Based on my own experience of over cooking it big time at Les Gets when you do get it completely and utterly wrong you don't remember it anyway. I bet the views from the emergency helicopter were brilliant too.


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## Lee_M (18 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Based on my own experience of over cooking it big time at Les Gets when you do get it completely and utterly wrong you don't remember it anyway. I bet the views from the emergency helicopter were brilliant too.


 
brilliant post, made my day - wheres the bashed up smil;ey when you need one!


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## VamP (19 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> These days, as I don't race*, I tend to think in terms of seasonal tyres rather than condition specific ones. This means of course than 2012 has been Winter - Spring - Spring - Autumn - Winter - Winter - Winter - Winter - Autumn so far in terms of tyre choice.
> 
> *but the idea of taking part, for fun on a strictly non-competitive basis, in some gravity enduro stuff next year appeals.


 
My takeaway from the above post is:

a) Greg has not changed tyres at all this year

b) Greg is going racing next year 



GregCollins said:


> Based on my own experience of over cooking it big time at Les Gets when you do get it completely and utterly wrong you don't remember it anyway. I bet the views from the emergency helicopter were brilliant too.


 
and from this one:

c) Greg's one crazy assed mofo


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

If only c) were true. Clumsy over-confident oaf with a predilection for crashing, needlessly, at high speed, when riding alone on a strange hire bikes on strange mountains in foreign countries. Somewhere on that Les Gets mountainside is my mojo, which I dropped, both literally and figuratively, in that crash.


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## lulubel (19 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Based on my own experience of over cooking it big time at Les Gets when you do get it completely and utterly wrong you don't remember it anyway. I bet the views from the emergency helicopter were brilliant too.


 
You're utterly mad 



GregCollins said:


> lulubel. DO NOT rely on a pump with a pressure gauge when setting your tyre pressures so low. Notoriously inconsistent, espcailly over time, and inaccurate. Digital tyre pressure gauge is the way to go.


 


VamP said:


> Pump gauges measure pressure in the pump, not in the tyre and it's easy to be 30 psi out. A little digital checker like this one is what you want.


 
That's a pain. I'm short of carrying space on the bike already (and absolutely will not do the sweaty back thing), and I'll have even less space when I get my dropper seat post and have to lose the huge wedge pack (although I assume I can still carry a small bag that fits on the saddle rails as long as it doesn't interfere with the seat post), so I might as well get a digital gauge for home and carry on with the thumb method on the trails. At least once I know what a certain pressure feels like, I'll be a bit more accurate.

Is the pressure gauge on track pumps equally unreliable?

So I need a new pump without a gauge, then. Preferably one like my road pump that has an extra strap to stop it popping out of its plastic clips every time it gets a bit bumpy. (Although I have to say my current one doesn't do that on the trails. It just works its way loose and then falls out in traffic in the middle of town  )


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

I find the pressure gauge on my track pump (Topeak Joeblow ?Sport?) to be pretty accurate and consistent (using digital gauge as reference) provided I keep the pump plunger pressed down. That said, one of the track pumps at work? Not so much.

I don't have ninja thumbs and cannot determine type pressure using that method despite years of trying.

And I'm not mad. I didn't set out to half kill myself, that would be mad, I was just overtaken by events in the guise of the merciless laws of physics.


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## lulubel (19 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> And I'm not mad. I didn't set out to half kill myself, that would be mad, I was just overtaken by events in the guise of the merciless laws of physics.


 
I was referring to your disappointment at missing the views from the emergency helicopter as clear evidence of your insanity


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> I was referring to your disappointment at missing the views from the emergency helicopter as clear evidence of your insanity


Fair enough, but the views are insane from up there. But you have to be conscious to see them.


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## VamP (19 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> If only c) were true. Clumsy over-confident oaf with a predilection for crashing, needlessly, at high speed, when riding alone on a strange hire bikes on strange mountains in foreign countries. Somewhere on that Les Gets mountainside is my mojo, which I dropped, both literally and figuratively, in that crash.


 
Sounds like you need to get back there with your Nerve (ehm) to get your Nerve, erm mojo back. On second thoughts, that's probably a really bad idea. You decide.


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## VamP (19 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> Is the pressure gauge on track pumps equally unreliable?
> 
> So I need a new pump without a gauge, then. Preferably one like my road pump that has an extra strap to stop it popping out of its plastic clips every time it gets a bit bumpy. (Although I have to say my current one doesn't do that on the trails. It just works its way loose and then falls out in traffic in the middle of town  )


 

It was a track pump that I was specifically referring to. I agree that by using the digital gauge periodically you will get a good feel for what's right.

Have you given some thought to getting a little camelback type rucksack? I rarely find that I get any more sweaty with that than without, and it's the mutt's nuts for extended offroading.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> It was a track pump that I was specifically referring to. I agree that by using the digital gauge periodically you will get a good feel for what's right.
> 
> *Have you given some thought to getting a little camelback type rucksack*? I rarely find that I get any more sweaty with that than without, and it's the mutt's nuts for extended offroading.


A must in my opinion. Wouldn't ride the high mountains without one, and find them useful for anything more epic than playing down the woods. (and you need to set your sag with one on, fully loaded, with a full bladder. The bag, not you.)


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> Sounds like you need to get back there with your Nerve (ehm) to get your Nerve, erm mojo back. On second thoughts, that's probably a really bad idea. You decide.


I've done several alps since. Salzburgerland. Slovenia. Other bits of the French ones. And some other mountains. And a fair few UK mountains, too though not so many trail centres. I think I may regain my mojo, if it is to be regained at all, as I'm not getting any younger, via the trail centre route. Sessioning being the answer I think.


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## VamP (19 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> I've done several alps since. Salzburgerland. Slovenia. Other bits of the French ones. And some other mountains. And a fair few UK mountains, too though not so many trail centres. I think I may regain my mojo, if it is to be regained at all, as I'm not getting any younger, via the trail centre route. Sessioning being the answer I think.


 
Sounds like you got it worked out 

I've put in a small bid for insanity myself today, with a 111 mile ride to the coast. The weatherman is an a***.


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## lulubel (19 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> Have you given some thought to getting a little camelback type rucksack? I rarely find that I get any more sweaty with that than without, and it's the mutt's nuts for extended offroading.


 


GregCollins said:


> A must in my opinion. Wouldn't ride the high mountains without one, and find them useful for anything more epic than playing down the woods. (and you need to set your sag with one on, fully loaded, with a full bladder. The bag, not you.)


 
That's what I've got. I had to use it for a bit before I got my bar mounted bottle cage, and it's horrid. But you have to bear in mind that for about 6 months of the year, I'm wearing tri-shorts (because they're thinner and shorter than normal cycling shorts) and a spaghetti strap top - think of straps the width of spaghetti - in an attempt to stay as cool as possible. The last thing I want is to attach something else to my body that's going to prevent sweat evaporating.

I'll figure something out, but there's no way I'm going to be able to add anything extra to what I carry with me.


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## VamP (19 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> That's what I've got. I had to use it for a bit before I got my bar mounted bottle cage, and it's horrid. But you have to bear in mind that for about 6 months of the year, I'm wearing tri-shorts (because they're thinner and shorter than normal cycling shorts) and a spaghetti strap top - think of straps the width of spaghetti - in an attempt to stay as cool as possible. The last thing I want is to attach something else to my body that's going to prevent sweat evaporating.
> 
> I'll figure something out, but there's no way I'm going to be able to add anything extra to what I carry with me.


 
I suspect your bar bottle cage will prove useless once you pick up speed on descents. But you're right I hadn't factored your climate into the equation. A thin merino vest maybe???


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## black'n'yellow (19 Oct 2012)

Grip on loose rock..?? You can run any tire at any pressure - you will still have no grip, so don't worry about it..


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## lulubel (19 Oct 2012)

VamP said:


> I suspect your bar bottle cage will prove useless once you pick up speed on descents. But you're right I hadn't factored your climate into the equation. A thin merino vest maybe???


 
It's an adjustable cage that you can set really tight round a normal bidon. It holds onto a full 500ml bottle fine over stuff that shakes the bike around so much that the chain is hitting my leg - and the chain isn't too long - and the chances of me descending with a full bottle are also pretty slim because I will have drunk most of it on the climb. I've ordered another one for the frame because I have had a full bottle jump out of that one on a rough section.

If I do get bottles jumping out, I'll just use a bit of velcro to hold them in place. It doesn't really matter if I can't remove it while I'm riding (although pulling the velcro back shouldn't be difficult if I position it well) because I don't mind stopping for a drink, and taking the chance to enjoy the view.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Oct 2012)

500ml though. You'll blast through that in 30 mins/one climb. Could be kind of limiting.

and if you don't like camelbaks just wait until you discover body armour.....


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## lulubel (20 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> 500ml though. You'll blast through that in 30 mins/one climb. Could be kind of limiting.
> 
> and if you don't like camelbaks just wait until you discover body armour.....


 
The frame will take one bottle, so that's at least 1 litre in total, and the kidneys can only process around 500ml of fluid in an hour, so there's no point in drinking more than that - it just gets peed out - which means I can carry enough water for 2 hours. If you know where to look in Spain, there are also lots of places you can get water. Even in what seems like the middle of nowhere in the mountains, there are concrete storage tanks that you can fill your bottles from.

My biggest problem is finding a way to carry my stuff. I tried to order the next frame size up - the difference in ETT was about 12mm, so hardly significant - because it had 2 sets of bottle mounts, but it came up out of stock when I added it to my basket. I was hoping to use the second set of mounts for a "storage" bottle because, as well as all my usual stuff, I want to start carrying a basic first aid kit. As I said, I'm sure I'll figure something out.

I won't be wearing body armour. If I'm going fast enough to need it, I'm going too fast. And I'm far more likely to be seriously injured in a crash on the road that involves another vehicle, and I don't see any roadies wearing body armour.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> The frame will take one bottle, so that's at least 1 litre in total, and the kidneys can only process around 500ml of fluid in an hour, so there's no point in drinking more than that - it just gets peed out - which means I can carry enough water for 2 hours. If you know where to look in Spain, there are also lots of places you can get water. Even in what seems like the middle of nowhere in the mountains, there are concrete storage tanks that you can fill your bottles from.
> 
> My biggest problem is finding a way to carry my stuff. I tried to order the next frame size up - the difference in ETT was about 12mm, so hardly significant - because it had 2 sets of bottle mounts, but it came up out of stock when I added it to my basket. I was hoping to use the second set of mounts for a "storage" bottle because, as well as all my usual stuff, I want to start carrying a basic first aid kit. As I said, I'm sure I'll figure something out.
> 
> I won't be wearing body armour. If I'm going fast enough to need it, I'm going too fast. And I'm far more likely to be seriously injured in a crash on the road that involves another vehicle, and I don't see any roadies wearing body armour.


I strongly recommend knee and elbow pads, a decent trail (not XC) helmet (and a camelbak to carry the needful you just get used to them in heat) when riding in real mountains. You might need to think about a frame bag or a large saddle bag if camelbak is a nono and you actually want to carry the required clobber, spares, etc., first aid kit, and knowledge how to use on, is a must imo.


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## lulubel (20 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> I strongly recommend knee and elbow pads, a decent trail (not XC) helmet (and a camelbak to carry the needful you just get used to them in heat) when riding in real mountains. You might need to think about a frame bag or a large saddle bag if camelbak is a nono and you actually want to carry the required clobber, spares, etc., first aid kit, and knowledge how to use on, is a must imo.


 
Greg, I do respect your views, but I suspect that, while I may have never ridden in "real" mountains, you have probably never ridden in "real" heat. I was doing 2000ft+ climbs this summer in 40C and 100% humidity, and in those conditions you do not load your body with anything that's going to increase your temperature even further. I wear enough clothes to be decent, a lightweight, well-ventilated helmet and a pair of sandals to protect my feet. That's it. It's the same as I wear on the road in extreme heat.

My view is that, when you're on your own on the trails, you are entirely responsible for your own safety, so if you're sensible, you won't suffer any major injuries. Therefore, the need for protective clothing is minimal. Riding on the road, where you're subject to the whims of people travelling around in big metal boxes, the chance of any crash being serious is much higher. So, if I don't wear a particular piece of protective clothing on the road, I don't see the need to wear it on the trails either.

I don't ride stupidly fast. I never will. It's true that I'm not particularly concerned about my safety for my own sake, but I have a family who need me to come home, and I'm much more likely to suffer from potentially fatal heat stroke here than to be involved in a potentially fatal crash.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Oct 2012)

Blimey lulubel have I hit a nerve or what? In future I'll mind my own business!


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## lulubel (20 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Blimey lulubel have I hit a nerve or what? In future I'll mind my own business!


 
Sorry. That probably didn't come across the way I meant it. I'm just frustrated, and I know it's because it's so different here that neither of us can fully appreciate each other's worlds.

It was a bit drizzly and damp here yesterday, and my ride was awful. I was coughing and choking and couldn't breathe properly - that kind of damp isn't great for my asthma - and I can't imagine what it was like in Cornwall riding in those kind of conditions most of the time, even though it was only three years ago that we left. In the same way, I don't expect you can imagine sun so intense that you get a minor burn from brushing your leg against the top tube of your bike during your ride, but that's what happened to me in the summer.

If I was ever MTBing in high mountains (Alps, Pyrenees, etc) or somewhere that I really didn't know on my own, I'd probably put a rack on the bike so I could carry a rack bag with everything but the kitchen sink in it, so I was prepared for every possible eventuality. But round here - and I admit there is probably some element of thinking nothing will happen on your own doorstep - I know quite a lot about how things work, where you need to go to find water, etc, so I don't feel the need to be so well equipped. I am putting together a first aid kit, complete with all the usual stuff, plus steroid tablets (which I need if I get an allergic reaction, and carry anyway) and sticky stitches so I can patch myself up if I need to, until I can get proper medical care. I also have the advantage of mobile phone coverage being really good here because they have a lot of antennae to cover the areas between the mountains, and I haven't found anywhere yet where I couldn't get a signal, which is pretty reassuring - as long as I remember to charge my phone 

And what I said about coming home was absolutely true. If I killed myself, I wouldn't be in a position to care - obviously - but there are people at home who need me. I also think, in general - and I know there are exceptions - women are naturally more cautious than men. It's probably something to do with hormones. So, while I do fall off a lot, it's all pretty minor. I'm far too careful - and far too scared of heights - to put myself in a position where the fall will be long and/or hard.


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## Motozulu (21 Oct 2012)

I obviously respect your opinions Lulubel and that heat is ridiculous - but when I split my knee open the other week I was going really slowly, negotiating a rock garden but was just unlucky that my knee hit a sharp rock so hard. I hope you're luckier than me and it never happens, but no matter how careful you are your knees are very, very vulnerable. I'll never go on the trails again without at least knee protection. I'm tempted to put up a photo of my knee for you that was took when I got home after the injury, but I won't because it's far too graphic, but it might make you think again if you saw it.  Anyway - good luck with the new bike.


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## lulubel (21 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> I obviously respect your opinions Lulubel and that heat is ridiculous - but when I split my knee open the other week I was going really slowly, negotiating a rock garden but was just unlucky that my knee hit a sharp rock so hard. I hope you're luckier than me and it never happens, but no matter how careful you are your knees are very, very vulnerable. I'll never go on the trails again without at least knee protection. I'm tempted to put up a photo of my knee for you that was took when I got home after the injury, but I won't because it's far too graphic, but it might make you think again if you saw it.  Anyway - good luck with the new bike.


 
Go ahead and post a picture. Other people post graphic pictures of their injuries. (I can post one of my infected shin wound from earlier this year if you like  )

But seriously, you could fall over walking on the trails and break your ankle/split your knee open on a rock/whatever, but I don't see anyone wearing anything more protective than a decent pair of boots when they go hiking (and I see plenty of people wearing flipflops to walk on the same trails I cycle on). I can remember falling off a horse as a teenager and taking all the skin off my forearm. I said I was NEVER riding a horse without long sleeves after that, which lasted until my arm had healed, and then I was back in short sleeves again. I think you just have to wear whatever protection you're comfortable with, and that's the reason I don't tell anyone they should wear a helmet, although I wear one myself and think it's a sensible thing to do.


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## billflat12 (21 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> Go ahead and post a picture. Other people post graphic pictures of their injuries. (I can post one of my infected shin wound from earlier this year if you like  )
> 
> But seriously, you could fall over walking on the trails and break your ankle/split your knee open on a rock/whatever, but I don't see anyone wearing anything more protective than a decent pair of boots when they go hiking (and I see plenty of people wearing flipflops to walk on the same trails I cycle on). I can remember falling off a horse as a teenager and taking all the skin off my forearm. I said I was NEVER riding a horse without long sleeves after that, which lasted until my arm had healed, and then I was back in short sleeves again. I think you just have to wear whatever protection you're comfortable with, and that's the reason I don't tell anyone they should wear a helmet, although I wear one myself and think it's a sensible thing to do.



even though i can respect your decision regarding heat exhaustion i do tend to agree with previous comments about carrying essentials out on the trails
we all think things will never happen to us , mostly it,s the inexperienced that have problems., uk mountain climate & conditions change rapidly and i suspect it,s no different near you " sensible thing to do" is reduce any unacceptable risk, (or make sure you have a mobile signal & look forward to a helicopter ride if you feel reckless ) it,s a personal choice of course..
Also considering the advanced nature of your new bike you have more potential to hurt yourself , as you intend to push your boundaries it would be wise to consider a little extra protection, ( i hate the idea of lookin like a cyborg warrior ) , my own kit has proved a good investment from when adrenaline has pushed me beyond my abilities.
sorry about any lecture here lulubel


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## lulubel (21 Oct 2012)

I'm leaving the forum for a bit because this is getting silly.

You really need to listen to yourselves. The next thing, you're going to tell me I should never cross the road because I might get run over by a bus.

I don't lecture other people on what they should do for their own safety. Please show me enough respect to not do it to me.


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## Motozulu (22 Oct 2012)

Sorry you feel like that Lulubel - of course it's your choice, just trying to offer some friendly advice - would hate to think you may get hurt on your super duper new bike as you get faster and more confident and I had'nt said my twopennorth worth.  Yep you can get hurt taking a shower or walking the dog and it is entirely up to the individual how you prepare. My own mishap was due to overconfidence probably so because I don't trust myself not to get over fast again I'm padding up!


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## billflat12 (22 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> I'm leaving the forum for a bit because this is getting silly.
> You really need to listen to yourselves. The next thing, you're going to tell me I should never cross the road because I might get run over by a bus.
> .


 
Guess we never really grow up; only learn how to act in public.​


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## Motozulu (23 Oct 2012)

Has Lulu flounced out of the room then?  Shame - all seemed pretty innocent to me. Oh well.


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## billflat12 (23 Oct 2012)

OP was


lulubel said:


> I'll stop hogging this board eventually, I promise!
> ?


In honour of this thread becoming a bit of a turkey a little tribute

*http://images.businessweek.com/ss/05/11/egreetings/image/01.swf*​


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## Motozulu (24 Oct 2012)




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## Cubist (24 Oct 2012)

Well, I'm sure that helped cheer Lulubel up.


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## billflat12 (24 Oct 2012)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15585764@N05/4407973439/lightbox


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## Motozulu (25 Oct 2012)

Cubist I don't think Lulubel's here anymore, now we'll never get to hear the end of the Spanish adventure.


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## Cubist (25 Oct 2012)

Some people don't know when to leave things be, but in my opinion some replies were just plain rude. Shame.


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## lulubel (25 Oct 2012)

OK, guys, I'm back. I took some very sensible advice, and this thread looks a whole lot better for it 

I don't have any news about the bike, though. It's still in the final assembly stage - yes, they could have just sent it to me in bits, and I'd be up the mountains on it by now! - but the latest shipping date they've given me is next Monday, so I should be out on it by the end of next week.

We're actually having torrential rain here at the moment, so I'm quite glad I haven't got it because it would be very frustrating. I don't like riding in the rain (although that would be over-ridden by having a new bike to play with) but this kind of rain can cause flash floods in the mountains, so I wouldn't want to risk going up there. The trails should be "interesting" when it all settles down, though.


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## VamP (25 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> We're actually having torrential rain here at the moment, so I'm quite glad I haven't got it because it would be very frustrating. I don't like riding in the rain (although that would be over-ridden by having a new bike to play with) but this kind of rain can cause flash floods in the mountains, so I wouldn't want to risk going up there. *The trails should be "interesting" when it all settles down, though.*


 

In that case can we have pics _before_ you take the bike out for it's first ride please?


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## Christopher (25 Oct 2012)

Hmm, reminds me of a story I heard once about a mtb'r who went up into the California hills after a heavy storm to ride a road that had been closed due to landslides. On the way up he met a couple of mud-splattered off-road motorcyclists coming back down the road. They did their best to persuade him to turn back as higher up there was no road, just downed trees and debris. The mtbiker carried on and almost had a serious incident as he ended up soaked, plastered in mud and snot, scrached to heck and dragging the bike behind him by its front wheel, under fallen trees and over loose slopes of mud and rock. No long-term harm done but it took him a while to recover from it...


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## Motozulu (25 Oct 2012)

Don't blame you for being wary lulubel. I learnt in the dry but now the weather is changing over here feels I am learning all over again - just back from a ride in the forest and spent more time sliding than pedalling it feels. Course when you throw in landslides and flash floods it's a whole new ball game - I'm just whinging about a few muddy boardwalks and slick as snot cobbles here.  Big deal.


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## Motozulu (25 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> Some people don't know when to leave things be, but in my opinion some replies were just plain rude. Shame.


 
Rude?? who? where?


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## Cubist (25 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Rude?? who? where?


I don't really think I have to spell it out do I?


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## Motozulu (25 Oct 2012)

Seriously? yes you'll have to spell it out - I can't see anything rude anywhere - really I can't, bit of humour maybe but rude? not in my definition of the word it is'nt. Are we getting a bit over sensitive here?.
Lulubel did'nt appreciate being lectured on safety (fair do's) so she left for a bit (also fair enough), it was commented on in a humerous way, now she's back, I'm pleased to say, and no harm done. I can do rude, no problems, but I certainly have'nt here.


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## lulubel (25 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> I can do rude, no problems, but I certainly have'nt here.


 
I don't think anyone's accusing you of being rude.

I really enjoy reading your posts because it's nice hearing the experiences and views of someone else who's new to MTBing, but coming at it from a totally different angle.


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## billflat12 (25 Oct 2012)

some people could take a lesson from the weather, It pays no attention to criticism​


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## Motozulu (25 Oct 2012)

Hey Lulubel - my sentiments exactly.
I was a bit gutted to think you had left the forum due to my, or others, (often alcoholic  ) ramblings and I am glad you are back. As you say we are both new to this and I've found your posts about the conditions you have to ride in fascinating.

Please never stop posting and please, please never stop posting due to my low IQ'd oafery.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Oct 2012)

billflat12 said:


> some people could take a lesson from the weather, It pays no attention to criticism​


the weather has no heart and no soul.


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## VamP (26 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> the weather has no heart and no soul.


 
Not to mention self-awareness. Jeez, I'd rather take lessons from George Osborne.


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## lulubel (26 Oct 2012)

The bike is on its way! It was shipped late yesterday afternoon, and left Germany around 2am.

The bad news is that DHL are handing it over to the Spanish postal service for delivery, so it could spend the next few weeks travelling round the country several times before finally being delivered to the wrong address!


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## billflat12 (26 Oct 2012)

ok. have more​1.Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.​2.Don't worry about old age--it doesn't last that long​​ 
​​​​​​​​​


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## Motozulu (26 Oct 2012)

billflat12 said:


> ok. have more​1.Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.​2.Don't worry about old age--it doesn't last that long​
> 
> ​​​​​​​​​


 
I like this - possibly the most depressing post I have ever read.


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## Motozulu (26 Oct 2012)

Glad the bike is (sort of) on the way Lulubel - look forward to your reviews.


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## Cubist (26 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> The bike is on its way! It was shipped late yesterday afternoon, and left Germany around 2am.
> 
> The bad news is that DHL are handing it over to the Spanish postal service for delivery, so it could spend the next few weeks travelling round the country several times before finally being delivered to the wrong address!


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## Kiwiavenger (28 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> The bike is on its way! It was shipped late yesterday afternoon, and left Germany around 2am.
> 
> The bad news is that DHL are handing it over to the Spanish postal service for delivery, so it could spend the next few weeks travelling round the country several times before finally being delivered to the wrong address!



Is it here yet, is it here yet


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## Dan151 (28 Oct 2012)

I have 2.2 continental mountain kings and they work well on loose stuff. Hamsterley has a bit of loose rock and they seem to handle it well. i have lost the front though once or twice but that was me not positioned right on the bike. Weight distribution is a big factor on grip too


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## lulubel (29 Oct 2012)

According to Correos (the Spanish end), it's arrived in Spain - somewhere, they don't specify - and is now "in transit".


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