# New touring bike - suggestions?



## jay clock (16 Sep 2018)

I am putting this in here, as I am hoping tourers will have a slightly different view than those in the "which bike" forum. But happy for any opinions

As some will know from my blogs I have a Koga Miyata World Traveller. Faultless workhorse but heavy and probably too heavy duty. I am thinking of something lighter (the KM is about 18kg with bottle cages, racks and a tool bag on it) and I don't really need the "round the world" credit it offers. 

I am very keen on this. https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-aurora-elite-2018-touring-bike-EV306053
I tested the 2017 model in Jan this year but they only had it in 57 which was too big.

Ideally I would prefer STI levers to bar ends, but not a biggie

I am rambling a bit but up for suggestions and discussion!


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## Heltor Chasca (16 Sep 2018)

If it’s really not a biggie, the Surly Disc atrucker offers amazing value. Too heavy?


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## jay clock (16 Sep 2018)

Thanks. I can see why you suggest but there are a few things that put me off

Wheels, I really fancy going back to 700c. 
BB is square taper vs HT2
No rack and guards (couple hundred pounds 
£600 more before adding rack and guards...

Also I have impression the Jamis 631 is a better quality steel but that might be bollox?


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## Dave 123 (16 Sep 2018)

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3354/SPA-CYCLES-Elite-Ti-Tourer


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## Heltor Chasca (16 Sep 2018)

Dave 123 said:


> https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3354/SPA-CYCLES-Elite-Ti-Tourer



Wow! With that spec and add ons, that is incredible value. How do they do it?


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## Dave 123 (16 Sep 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Wow! With that spec and add ons, that is incredible value. How do they do it?




They keep themselves in a crappy industrial unit and don’t waste time on polishing their brand (maybe)

My Spa ti tourer is lovely.


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## GM (16 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> I am very keen on this. https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-aurora-elite-2018-touring-bike-EV306053
> I tested the 2017 model in Jan this year but they only had it in 57 which was too big.
> 
> Ideally I would prefer STI levers to bar ends, but not a biggie
> ...




Apologies if I'm wrong Jay, but I'm pretty sure Grumpy Greg has one of these he was out on it the other Sunday. looked nice, wouldn't mind one myself.


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## HelenD123 (16 Sep 2018)

I have the standard Spa Cycles tourer, albeit the flat bar version, and love it. It's pretty nippy, even feeling like it accelerates uphill! I liked that they would swap out parts to build it to your spec eg change the stem length or not charge you for a saddle if you had your own. Not as stylish as the Jamis though.


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## betty swollocks (16 Sep 2018)

Some sort of bikepacking /gravel bike??
There's all sorts of bags to go with these, which wrap round various frame tubes, handlebars and seat post, so you don't even need racks.


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## Jerry Atrik (16 Sep 2018)

Have a look at the Sonder Camino Ti .
I've set of today to do the Camino del Norte on the Ali version .
Had the bike 4 months now with no problems and very comfy .


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## Ticktockmy (16 Sep 2018)

Build your own, so much more satifying, tailor it to you own needs, a bit of this and a bit of that from different manufactories. Buying the frame is the hardest part, getting that right and everything hangs off of it, yolu could even use some the best parts from your other bike as i would assum you would not be using it at the same time.


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## TheDoctor (16 Sep 2018)

I've been touring on a Ribble winter / audax frame for well over a decade. Mavic Open Pro wheels, Acera mech with revoshifters, 12-32 cassette and a 36T chainset. It started off with a Compact, but I never really needed the big ring.
It's on the Bikebuilder with Tiagra for £699 at the moment. No Sora option these days.


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## ozboz (17 Sep 2018)

I have a Surly CC , but if I would have seen one of those I may have been tempted away from the Surly , but I woud have ditched the bars and end shifters for straight bars with XT shifters as I have with the Surley'
I also had to pay extra for the granny wheel , bit it was worth it for steep hill
climbing


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## Vantage (17 Sep 2018)

Another fan of the Spa Touring here. 
Absolutely lovely handling bike and some well thought out tweaks built in such as M6 bolt mounts for the rear rack and separate mounts for the front mudguard and rack. Specifically designed to take mini V brakes for those sticking to STI gearing. 
Their newest model will take disc brakes if desired.


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## jay clock (17 Sep 2018)

All the comments very useful..not sure I am ready for bike packing. 

The Spa looks good but very much more pricey..

Also i can get a further 100 
£ off the James by trading in an old bike.. ANY bike even a kids one missing a wheel! So down to £900


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## Spoked Wheels (17 Sep 2018)

Ticktockmy said:


> Build your own, so much more satifying, tailor it to you own needs, a bit of this and a bit of that from different manufactories. Buying the frame is the hardest part, getting that right and everything hangs off of it, yolu could even use some the best parts from your other bike as i would assum you would not be using it at the same time.



Absolutely , I'm building a new bike that I can use for touring, winter club runs, a bit of off road, etc. I'm buying what I need, using what I already have but mostly paying attention to what I might want in the future and do it now, although there is some fun to be had upgrading bits here and there over time.

I gave my flat bar bike to my son so now I'm building one around the Surly Ogre frameset, I could buy a new Surly Ogre for a bit more money than this will cost me, the difference is that I'm fitting what I want which will result in a much better spec bike and to my taste, and includes a set of £350 wheels I'm building for it. Something so simple as a tyre choice, I had been using Schwalbe Marathons 1.5" on the bike a gave away and I want something similar with this one, the new Ogre comes with 2.5" tyres which aren't for my needs, saddle, stem, wheels, bar grips, pedals would have to be upgraded if I bought a Surly Ogre already built. 
..... and I get to cut the steerer tube to the length that suit me best


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## MichaelW2 (17 Sep 2018)

For typical 2-week Eurotouring, a disc brake do-it-all CX/tourer shod with 35-38mm tyres can tackle anything you are likely to find and may wear 32mm rubber most of the time. There is a thread about this style of bike with lots of current examples.


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## HelenD123 (17 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> All the comments very useful..not sure I am ready for bike packing.
> 
> The Spa looks good but very much more pricey..
> 
> ...



The non-Ti spa tourer is £985. Sorry, not sure how to link from my phone.


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## Vantage (17 Sep 2018)

HelenD123 said:


> The non-Ti spa tourer is £985. Sorry, not sure how to link from my phone.



I bought the frame&forks and built it up myself. Probably the best option as others have said. 
It's nice having a bike that was built around what I personally wanted rather than around a price bracket for the masses.
It's a wee bit more pricy that way though and not without its issues...compatible parts etc.


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## Crackle (17 Sep 2018)

Do you need front panniers. If you don't, you don't actually need a tourer. You want something with long enough rear stays for clearance and stability and not too much of a racing geometry as some can feel front light when loaded but most bike packing style bikes would work these days. Something like the Planet x London Road or a Kinesis Tripster AT. Bit more of a risk as you're moving away from tourer geometry and the built in comfort and stability but these bikes are built for long distance etc. so, probably OK


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## jay clock (18 Sep 2018)

*Thanks* for all your comments. The Jamis is what I am going for. I may go for a few changes once I get it. Have the option of cancelling or returning, and it does what I want. I have done a lot of touring so know what I want. What I want now is a bike that will do relatively light tours with possible options of a couple of weeks camping. I prefer not to use front panniers (although I do own some)

Next tours are week in southern Portugal in late March (will probably get away with two front panniers on the back as will be doing hotels) then two weeks in Washington state - full camping kit in late June early July


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## Conradm (18 Sep 2018)

Hmmm...
New tourer may be lovely. Or.... Get a Cheap second-hand one and use it, fix and fettle until it suits you. Might save you some money. Igor Kovse 's blog anyone?


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## jay clock (18 Sep 2018)

Conradm said:


> Hmmm...
> New tourer may be lovely. Or.... Get a Cheap second-hand one and use it, fix and fettle until it suits you. Might save you some money. Igor Kovse 's blog anyone?


thanks. I am not after doing this on the cheap. I have a long term health problem and I think £900 for bike that should give me 10+ years of touring is pretty good value. The current bike has given great service and I will resell, reducing the cost yet further


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## the stupid one (18 Sep 2018)

I realise, Jay Clock, that you've already made up your mind, but since you've got an active and relevant thread going . . .

Just spotted the Cube NuRoad Exc on sale at Freeborn for £1120. Aluminium, Shimano 105, hydraulic discs, Tubus rack, mudguards, and even a dynamo hub and lights. I don't recall this bike being mentioned on cyclechat, and I wonder what it's like.

https://www.cube.eu/en/2018/bikes/road/road-cyclocross/nuroad/cube-nuroad-exc-blackngrey-2018/

https://www.freeborn.co.uk/cube-nuroad-exc-2018-black-n-grey-gravel-bike


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## jay clock (18 Sep 2018)

That looks nice. I know a lot will decry its aluminium frame, but I like it


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## mcshroom (18 Sep 2018)

This Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe frame looks great, and it's <£400 for a Reynolds 853 frame: -





https://www.biketart.com/bikes-c1/frames-c33/ridgeback-panorama-deluxe-frameset-p12171

If I didn't already have my lovely Dawes Horizon I'd be tempted.


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## Vantage (19 Sep 2018)

mcshroom said:


> This Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe frame looks great, and it's <£400 for a Reynolds 853 frame: -
> View attachment 430679
> 
> https://www.biketart.com/bikes-c1/frames-c33/ridgeback-panorama-deluxe-frameset-p12171
> ...



Not sure I would. Ridgeback went through a phase of designing their tourers to be low and racy at the front. Probably to attract younger riders. I'd want to see the geometry first. I notice a lack of under downtube bottle cage bosses for starters...
Nice looking frame though.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> BB is square taper vs HT2



At the risk of a thread divert I'd see that as an advantage. If I knew what I know now, I would have had a square taper on my Hewitt. You can fit a square taper and forget about it for years, subject to just taking it out every year or two and re-applying heavy grease or anti-seize to the outside to check that it doesn't get stuck in.

You can lay a spare up and when/if it does go, takes no time at all to fit the new one - and then forget about that for another load of years. If going on a long long tour you can always put a new one in, keeping the extracted one as a spare, and it is then incredibly unlikely that you will have any BB issues on tour.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

betty swollocks said:


> Some sort of bikepacking /gravel bike??
> There's all sorts of bags to go with these, which wrap round various frame tubes, handlebars and seat post, so you don't even need racks.


yebbut some of those bags cost as much as a good German rack.


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## rualexander (19 Sep 2018)

Gearing on the OP's Jamis Aurora is far too high for a touring bike.


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## uphillstruggler (19 Sep 2018)

im looking forward to hearing your opinions on the bike once you have it

best of luck with it


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

rualexander said:


> Gearing on the OP's Jamis Aurora is far too high for a touring bike.


Only just noticed that, though do have a memory from my explorations in the past that that bike was pitched between bike types and to my mind would have needed some changes to make a tourer. I feel you are right - who needs a 50T big ring on a tourer? And the 30T "small" is big. So the fact that it has ten on the back is kind of irrelevant. I think I'd go for a 9 speed to be honest - and Spa could happily supply that.


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

OK, so back to drawing board!! I have come to pick up bike, and 55 is definitely too big. And no 53cm left anywhere. And some of the comments above are very valid. 

I may look at building up from scratch. I am fine to do 95% of that myslef, but may well need help drawing up a shopping list of compatible parts. Also a gamble on sizing

Jay


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

MichaelW2 said:


> For typical 2-week Eurotouring, a disc brake do-it-all CX/tourer shod with 35-38mm tyres can tackle anything you are likely to find and may wear 32mm rubber most of the time. There is a thread about this style of bike with lots of current examples.


can you point me to this thread?


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> OK, so back to drawing board!! I have come to pick up bike, and 55 is definitely too big. And no 53cm left anywhere. And some of the comments above are very valid.
> 
> I may look at building up from scratch. I am fine to do 95% of that myslef, but may well need help drawing up a shopping list of compatible parts. Also a gamble on sizing
> 
> Jay


Maybe a close shave then jay (as I said once to a superficially attractive but problematical woman) - a good bike can be for life. I would seriously consider 9 speed. I take it this is for drop bars though? Which does make compatibility of controls etc more of an issue. Would also check out Spa as many upthread have suggested. I have done some good projects on old steel hybrids with their sensible bits but I may in the end end up buying one of their tourer frames and putting bits on that.


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> Not sure I would. Ridgeback went through a phase of designing their tourers to be low and racy at the front. Probably to attract younger riders. I'd want to see the geometry first. I notice a lack of under downtube bottle cage bosses for starters...
> Nice looking frame though.


I like low and racy. I want my tourer to feel rather like my road/tri bike. 

I am looking fairly seriously at this frame and may be looking at it tomorrow.

Apart from simple stuff like bar and seatpost, I would probably want


STI levers (9 speed in black) open to 10 speed
Cable operated hydro brakes
Chainset something MTB-ish to give easy gears
32T cassette
Hollowtech 2 BB
Tubus rack https://www.evanscycles.com/tubus-logo-rear-carrier-00120879
Any comments about what chainset I could fit to that sort of rig?

Other comments on my shopping list in terms of general compatibility etc?


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Maybe a close shave then jay (as I said once to a superficially attractive but problematical woman) - a good bike can be for life. I would seriously consider 9 speed. I take it this is for drop bars though? Which does make compatibility of controls etc more of an issue. Would also check out Spa as many upthread have suggested. I have done some good projects on old steel hybrids with their sensible bits but I may in the end end up buying one of their tourer frames and putting bits on that.


Problem with Spa (although I will definitely buy wheels from them) is that they are gruff and rubbish on the phone. I need someone engaging me in a decent chat to work out what will work. The guy from Bike Tart has been really good ( and he is a real tourist)


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> Problem with Spa (although I will definitely buy wheels from them) is that they are gruff and rubbish on the phone. I need someone engaging me in a decent chat to work out what will work. The guy from Bike Tart has been really good ( and he is a real tourist)




Am aware that they have a certain reputation.

But I well remember buying some wheels from them and needing a fair bit of help from them to give them them the info they needed. The bloke on the phone couldn't have been nicer.

Of course I am a northerner and have kept a bit of the accent, albeit Lancashire - maybe that would explain it. Have you considered elocution lessons 

edit - can I ask why you are so wedded to Hollowtech2?

A tourer that rides like a tri bike does sound a bit odd to tell the truth but each to their own.

Plus 1 to racks from Tubus.


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## Pale Rider (19 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> Problem with Spa (although I will definitely buy wheels from them) is that they are gruff and rubbish on the phone. I need someone engaging me in a decent chat to work out what will work. The guy from Bike Tart has been really good ( and he is a real tourist)



Spa are famously awkward with customers.

My visit to the shop went well, although when I questioned the price of a component - their mistake - the guy jumped down my throat.

I would recommend Spa in that they understand touring and will customise a bike effectively for the price of off-the-peg.

I'm sure you could manage their foibles face-to-face, but trying to deal with them over the phone for anything other than a cash and carry purchase is probably not wise.


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## Vantage (19 Sep 2018)

Spa's always been nice to me on the phone. 
Maybe they just don't like southerners?


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> Spa's always been nice to me on the phone.
> Maybe they just don't like southerners?



I had no problems at all and I’m from south of the Sahara. Bugged them no end with annoying questions, amendments etc. Bobby was very patient with me and built an amazing pair of wheels.

He did leave a Frankfurter down the seat post though.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Spa are famously awkward with customers.
> 
> My visit to the shop went well, although when I questioned the price of a component - their mistake - the guy jumped down my throat.
> 
> ...


Reminded me.

They have a price match flag/policy on some of their bits.

I asked for this on something - a mech I think - and got a straightforward but perfectly polite email back saying that they couldn't actually match that as they would be left with no profit. I must say that I found this rather endearing.

They can be a bit slow responding to emails but I have the impression that this is because they are tightly staffed.

They do know their stuff jayclock and life has taught me that sometimes folk like this can come across as a tad tactless. But I am pretty confident that they will give good advice and an honest deal.

Maybe go for a yoga session, channel your inner northerner and hop on a train before it all wears off.

My Spa wheels are still running perfectly.

all the best.


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## MichaelW2 (19 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> can you point me to this thread?


Try
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/all-i-want-are-discs-and-mudguards.240066/


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

In answer to various comments and questions


I have used Spa for wheels and plan to again. Excellent
100% agreed they know their stuff but it all sounds a bit hasty as if I will be annoying them by wanting a a good natter
Hollowtech II I have never had a problem with, and it has been around 15-20 years so well proven. I always found square taper needed tightening a lot
I don't want the bike to ride like a tri bike but if I can manage on a road bike with the bars a few cm below the saddle then the same should be fine on my tourer (fyi I managed 2 mths across the USA in a nice low position). I certainly don't subscribe to the super upright idea


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## rualexander (19 Sep 2018)

Hollowtech bb for touring? 

Better to stick with old school square taper.
External bearing bb bearings won't last and might let you down somewhere inconvenient, whereas square taper will last for years.

Square taper chainset with decent touring gearing https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2657/SPA-CYCLES-104-Touring-Triple-Chainset


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

At the risk of annoying you jayclock, can I ask what you mean by square tapers needing re-tightening?

You mean the BB within the shell? Or the cranks?

The latter it is pretty normal to tighten once or twice after first installing the crankset and having done a bit of pedalling. But am not aware of anything more than that.

all the best.


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

rualexander said:


> Hollowtech bb for touring?
> 
> Better to stick with old school square taper.
> External bearing bb bearings won't last and might let you down somewhere inconvenient, whereas square taper will last for years.
> ...


That chainset might be good. Cranks a bit short. 

I have never had a problem with Hollowtech BBs but may have to put my preference aside to get a chainset with small enough rings


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> At the risk of annoying you jayclock, can I ask what you mean by square tapers needing re-tightening?
> 
> You mean the BB within the shell? Or the cranks?
> 
> ...


I had problems on tour with both. Probably poor fitting in honesty, but since I have never had problems with H2, I prefer them


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## Vantage (19 Sep 2018)

I ran their XD-2 chainset for a while on my tourer and had no issues. It's now on the shopper bike. Same price as the one linked to. Available with 175mm cranks.
I now run the TD-2 cranks which are more polished (I'm a bling tart) and I prefer the 5 visible arms as they're easier to work on imo. I went for a 46-36-24T setup on that but I think that too might be a bit too high for some hills when loaded. I found out the TD-2 also requires a different length BB.
If you shove a UN55 BB in there it'll last years without incident and they're buttery smooth.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

We'd better get off this square taper fetish vantage as jayclock has his own ideas. But just to say I have an XD2 48/38/28 on my favourite Ridgeback rebuild. I actually prefer its less shiny look - in fact I think it looks rather classy and "no brand". I understand that it is actually a Sugino. I wouldn't use the 48/38/28 on fully loaded touring bike, especially round y/our way, but then Spa have other stuff of course. Where would we be without them?
edit - ah, just read jayclock's post above - he's weakening


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## jay clock (19 Sep 2018)

I am weakening! My ambition is fully black as much as possible so will look at the xd2


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## jay clock (20 Sep 2018)

Thanks to everyone for their help and ideas particularly @mcshroom for suggesting the Ridgeback.. Have been into the very lovely Biketart near Canterbury and bought the frame.. Now need to get a shopping list of what will work!


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## Blue Hills (20 Sep 2018)

If you do decide to favour that nice Ridgeback frame with a Square Taper jayclock, I can recommend this to help with screwing the BB in - it stops the tool slipping and allows you to screw it in with controlled pressure.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BOTTOM-BRACKET-FREEWHEEL-REMOVER-BOLT/dp/B00NU2FJK6

or this may essentially be the same thing


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Bottom-Bracket-Removal-Tool-Road-Bike-Square-Hole-Axis-Of-The-Sleeve-ToolRG/153140020694?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=52945&meid=db17e45b211146aab4cbfda622dac0a8&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=153170552076&itm=153140020694&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Apologies if teaching you to suck eggs.

edit - on taking another look at that beautiful frame I note that the write-up from Bike tart says:

@@
World series bike are sensibly specified. Brazed downtube cable stops mean traditional gear levers can be used if needed. All complete builds use a square taper bottom bracket to allow replacement with a more readily available cup and axle unit.

@@

Listen to the bike


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## jay clock (20 Sep 2018)

OK UPDATE!! Bought the frame from the extremely friendly and beautifully located Bike Tart in Kent. Looks lovely and having offered it up next to a Genesis, size seems right. Two people have described it as having a long top tube which suits me fine

I have had a chat with a few shops and placed some orders! Not cheap but I am going for exactly what I want

Wheels - Spa. Exceptionally friendly and helpful (Andrew Johnson) and £208 for what sounds like a strong set of wheels with XT hubs and Kinlin rims. All in black (silver spokes)

Drivetrain - spoke to several places and general view is that MTB chainset etc is fine, so getting all this stuff from SJS. Hollow tech II!!!! Based on the fact that I have had problems in the past with square taper, and in 15 years+ have never done so with HT (sorry lads!)

Shifters - High on Bikes, Sora STI triple

Brakes. very pricey. TRP HY/RD from Merlin. I am bit confused about post fit or flat fit but ordered what they told me they think I need

Bars, stems etc from Wiggle. Hope rotors with orange middles, should look natty. Tyres, GatorHardshell 32mm

Black mudguards 

Tubus rack

I am bit concerned that I may have issues of compatibility etc in setting up the brakes, but let's wait and see. I probably need some cables too.

Saddle will initially be a Charge Spoon, and pedals some SPDs I have already

The look is going to be burnt orange frame with everything else black! May hunt out orange bar tape!

Any comments?


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## mcshroom (20 Sep 2018)

I look forward to seeing the completed build


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## jay clock (20 Sep 2018)

mcshroom said:


> I look forward to seeing the completed build


Me too. I will be pleasantly surprised if it is rideable


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## Vantage (20 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> Any comments?



Yep. Regarding the MTB drivetrain, an MTB front mech won't work very well with STI. Get a road spec front mech.


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## Spoked Wheels (21 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> OK UPDATE!! Bought the frame from the extremely friendly and beautifully located Bike Tart in Kent. Looks lovely and having offered it up next to a Genesis, size seems right. Two people have described it as having a long top tube which suits me fine
> 
> I have had a chat with a few shops and placed some orders! Not cheap but I am going for exactly what I want
> 
> ...



Sounds good.

Hallotec II for me too over Square Taper, Hallotec II are so light the you can take a spare BB on your tour if you are concerned.

Today I finished my new tourer, 11.9kg without rack and fenders.

I went for mechanical discs, Avid BB7, I've run them before and I like them, easy to take apart if you have to and a doddle to adjust. I did consider the TRP but they fit so close to the spokes that made me nervous  i wouldn't go hydrolic for touring, in case of a problem, mechanicals are my choice.

XT / KINLIN is a good combination, Spa's wheelbuilder is a good builder, I've re-rimed his wheels before. I went for Hope hubs and H Plus Son rims, more expensive but lighter and very very strong.

Not sure what rack to get....

I bought some SKS 53mm mudguards that I need to fit.

I went for Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 40c tyres.... 700g each not 645g as reported. 

Crankset is shimano deore 48-38-26 

Crankset can be found cheaper elsewhere but I was buying a few things there so I got free postage 

Fitted my old and trusted handlebars and 9 speeds shifters.

Let's see a picture of your touring bike when ready


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## Bodhbh (21 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> Tubus rack
> 
> I am bit concerned that I may have issues of compatibility etc in setting up the brakes, but let's wait and see. I probably need some cables too.
> 
> Any comments?



Splitting hairs as they're almost identical, but I noticed upthread you were going for the Tubus Logo. Unless you have a requirement for thru axle mounting - no rack mounts or the rack would foul disc caplipers on the seat stays - I would go for the Evo version of the Logo. The side rails are slightly lower for lower CoG and the attachment point at the bottom is neater. As I say splitting hairs, but if you're gonna blow £100 quid on a rack it may as well be just so.



Vantage said:


> Yep. Regarding the MTB drivetrain, an MTB front mech won't work very well with STI. Get a road spec front mech.



I'm running a MTB front mech on my commuter with a trigger shifter designed for use with road mechs (it's complicated...). It works fine, despite the fact they have different cable pull and it shouldn't on paper. I'd be inclined to give the above a go at least.


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## Vantage (21 Sep 2018)

Bodhbh said:


> I'm running a MTB front mech on my commuter with a trigger shifter designed for use with road mechs (it's complicated...). It works fine, despite the fact they have different cable pull and it shouldn't on paper. I'd be inclined to give the above a go at least.



If he was reusing old parts it'd be worth chancing but as the parts are all new, he might aswell get it right first time


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## jay clock (21 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> Yep. Regarding the MTB drivetrain, an MTB front mech won't work very well with STI. Get a road spec front mech.


any suggestions as to which one? This any good http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-4703-3x10sp-band-on-front-mech/ although I would prefer black


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## jay clock (21 Sep 2018)

Bodhbh said:


> Splitting hairs as they're almost identical, but I noticed upthread you were going for the Tubus Logo. Unless you have a requirement for thru axle mounting - no rack mounts or the rack would foul disc caplipers on the seat stays - I would go for the Evo version of the Logo. The side rails are slightly lower for lower CoG and the attachment point at the bottom is neater. As I say splitting hairs, but if you're gonna blow £100 quid on a rack it may as well be just so.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running a MTB front mech on my commuter with a trigger shifter designed for use with road mechs (it's complicated...). It works fine, despite the fact they have different cable pull and it shouldn't on paper. I'd be inclined to give the above a go at least.


Thanks @Bodhbh Looking at my order I have in fact order the Logo Evo so the one you recommend? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tubus-logo-...email&utm_campaign=orders&utm_content=product


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## Vantage (21 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> any suggestions as to which one? This any good http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-4703-3x10sp-band-on-front-mech/ although I would prefer black



Can't help you with that one I'm afraid. I'm still running a near 7 year old 2200 mech that was fitted to the vantage because I wasn't impressed with the new Claris one I bought.
It's cheap, simple and just works perfectly.


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## Bodhbh (21 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> If he was reusing old parts it'd be worth chancing but as the parts are all new, he might aswell get it right first time



Fair point, I was raiding the bitsbox and had nothing to lose.



jay clock said:


> any suggestions as to which one? This any good http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-4703-3x10sp-band-on-front-mech/ although I would prefer black



I've used 3x9 Tiagra mech with 48/36/26 MTB rings (more bitbox raiding). It worked fine, never tried it with anything smaller. I was pretty sure someone specifically made a mech with road pull to work with touring and MTB chainsets, but I can't find the paper trail - I bought one. I'll have a nose when I get home. As per comments above I'm not sure it's needed tho.



jay clock said:


> Thanks @Bodhbh Looking at my order I have in fact order the Logo Evo so the one you recommend? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tubus-logo-...email&utm_campaign=orders&utm_content=product



That's the one!


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## Vantage (21 Sep 2018)

Have you considered using an SRAM groupset instead of Shimano? Never used any myself but they do do parts all in black...


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> Have you considered using an SRAM groupset instead of Shimano? Never used any myself but they do do parts all in black...


I had a look, but just decided that if I roll into a French bike shop with anything other than best selling Shimano I am not helping chances of mending!


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

OK, some kit has arrived. Notably FOUR sets of mudguards! I had ordered them in 35 and 42mm to check which was best with 32mm tyres, and it is 42mm. Somehow I double ordered so 3 pairs to go back!

I have stuck a couple of existing wheels on to gauge dimensions when sitting on the bike, and very happy with overall effect

pic here of roughly how it looks https://ibb.co/hUbpmp


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Sep 2018)

I'd keep hold of a spare set if I were you, in case you damage one of them in future and they get discontinued. I stripped a cheapo donor bike recently and the SKS mudguards were identical to the ones on my 23 year old hybrid. If you intend to own anything for a long time, spare bits are always worth stashing away just in case.


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## I like Skol (22 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> OK, some kit has arrived. Notably FOUR sets of mudguards! I had ordered them in 35 and 42mm to check which was best with 32mm tyres, and it is 42mm. Somehow I double ordered so 3 pairs to go back!
> 
> I have stuck a couple of existing wheels on to gauge dimensions when sitting on the bike, and very happy with overall effect
> 
> pic here of roughly how it looks https://ibb.co/hUbpmp


That is a thing of beauty. If it was available in a bigger size i might be tempted for my commuter rebuild.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Sep 2018)

Frame looks fine but I would not want to ride around on any bike with bloody great logos plastered all over the wheels though! They would be coming off straightaway.


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## mcshroom (22 Sep 2018)

Looking good! 

I don't think the 4700 front mech you linked to earlier would work. 4700 is the new cable pull but Sora (3500 or R3000) is still the old pull I believe. You need a Sora FD or a 4600 tiagra one.


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

mcshroom said:


> Looking good!
> 
> I don't think the 4700 front mech you linked to earlier would work. 4700 is the new cable pull but Sora (3500 or R3000) is still the old pull I believe. You need a Sora FD or a 4600 tiagra one.


Thanks will order in a 4600 just in case


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Frame looks fine but I would not want to ride around on any bike with bloody great logos plastered all over the wheels though! They would be coming off straightaway.


Thanks.. Those are a spare rear wheel from the shed and front wheel from another bike.. New pair on order from spa


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

mcshroom said:


> Looking good!
> 
> I don't think the 4700 front mech you linked to earlier would work. 4700 is the new cable pull but Sora (3500 or R3000) is still the old pull I believe. You need a Sora FD or a 4600 tiagra one.


@mcshroom is this any good? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-sor...44uk&pgrid=58852352866&ptaid=pla-522345553401


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

by the way even though I have been on here for years I really do appreciate your help!


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

latest purchase is 12 different adapters for fitting the brakes as I have no real idea what I need, so will send back unneeded ones!


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## mcshroom (22 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> @mcshroom is this any good? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-sor...44uk&pgrid=58852352866&ptaid=pla-522345553401


I believe so. The compatibility chart is a bit weird for that one, claiming it only matches with the new R3030 chainset, but SJS think it'll work for a different old-pull FD so I'd agree with them.

PS: Compatibility charts are here if you fancy some confusing block diagrams - http://productinfo.shimano.com/download/pdf/com/2.7/en


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## Spoked Wheels (22 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> @mcshroom is this any good? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-sora-r3030-9-speed-band-on-front-mech/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=563444&kpid=563444&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mckv|sTqkMUrxf_dc|mcrid|295292317327|mkw||mmt||mrd|563444uk|mslid||&mkwid=sTqkMUrxf_dc&pcrid=295292317327&prd=563444uk&pgrid=58852352866&ptaid=pla-522345553401



Yes, that should do. Make sure your seat tube is 26.8mm though.


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## jay clock (22 Sep 2018)

28.6mm you mean? I guess so, this seems pretty standard, and it doesn't have a braze on.....


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## Spoked Wheels (23 Sep 2018)

jay clock said:


> 28.6mm you mean? I guess so, this seems pretty standard, and it doesn't have a braze on.....


Yes, I meant 28.6mm..... 31.8 and 34.something are also common.


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## Iainj837 (23 Sep 2018)

I have a Dawes Galaxy 2012 model, which I love to ride.


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## mcshroom (23 Sep 2018)

Iainj837 said:


> I have a Dawes Galaxy 2012 model, which I love to ride.


I have a Dawes Horizon from the same year. Lovely touring bikes, and I think 2012 was probably about the best looking paint schemes Dawes ever did for their touring bike range


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Sep 2018)

Oldest daughter has a pearlescent turquoise Dawes Super Galaxy ‘93. 

She is the second owner. I found it in a hen house on a job and paid the owner £100. Another £100 to do it up. It has been round the NL on two 14 day mini tours of the NL since the ‘chicken rescue.’ Good bikes ain’t no good in the shed.

*Inoculates hundreds of N+ owners nationwide with deep feelings of guilt*


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## Vantage (23 Sep 2018)

I have to admit, I do prefer the deep red of the Vantage to the Spa's british racing green.


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## jay clock (1 Dec 2018)

OK.. All done... Took it to the shop eventually https://ibb.co/rtdfD0B


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## Bonefish Blues (2 Dec 2018)

That's very nice indeed. Are you going to post a complete final spec?

What was the weight of frame & forks out of interest? BTW agree re Biketarts, I've dealt with them recently, too.


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## uphillstruggler (2 Dec 2018)

mcshroom said:


> This Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe frame looks great, and it's <£400 for a Reynolds 853 frame: -
> View attachment 430679
> 
> https://www.biketart.com/bikes-c1/frames-c33/ridgeback-panorama-deluxe-frameset-p12171
> ...



Hello Mcshroom

Just been rereading this thread and if you don't mind me asking, how old is your horizon?

I picked one up earlier this year and am trying to find out more info.

Hopefully you can help

EDIT: just re-read again so see its from 2012. I doubt mine is that young.


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## jay clock (2 Dec 2018)

The bike seems be 12.9kg fully finished bar pedals.. So About 13.3kg.. About a 4kg reduction on my koga miyata world traveller


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## Blue Hills (2 Dec 2018)

Out of interest Jayclock, what is it that makes the Koga so heavy?

Am a bit puzzled.

And I write/tap as someone who isn't overly concerned with the weight of a bike, let alone a tourer, for my current style of cycling.


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## jay clock (2 Dec 2018)

Good question.. Wheels and tyres and tubes are heavier. Forks certainly a lot bigger although being aluminium may not be as big a difference. Koga has Brooks B17 which is 300g more. Kickstand adds a couple of hundred grams.. Hard to say..


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## jay clock (2 Dec 2018)

Bonefish Blues said:


> That's very nice indeed. Are you going to post a complete final spec?
> 
> What was the weight of frame & forks out of interest? BTW agree re Biketarts, I've dealt with them recently, too.


Sorry I didn't weigh them!


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## Blue Hills (2 Dec 2018)

mm

ta for the reply.

Surely it can't be the wheels? Any tourer worth its salt will have beefy wheels, and I'm a great fan of Rigida Sputniks.

Other suggestion - Koga World Traveller riders are part of a secret global conspiracy of drug mules, taking advantage of its generous, and capacious, tubing.


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## jay clock (2 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> mm
> 
> ta for the reply.
> 
> ...




I use it to transport the drug know as Cake 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w


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## yostumpy (7 Dec 2018)

IMG_0395 by mark tilley, on Flickr

I have had the Ridgeback World Panorama Deluxe, (Olive) for 2 years, and covered approx 10,000m so far. I love it to bits, and although I have other bikes, I don't use them now. I even have a full sus MTB, but never use it now, as I use Olive for rough stuff as well. It is quite fast, and nimble. It was bought new, as a complete bike, in a x-mas sale, and has had a bit of a makeover in the 2 years. For those interested I have listed the spec.

Ridgeback 853 Deluxe (disc) frame in XL
Nitto SP72 Jaguar seatpost
Spa Nidd Saddle
Easton 0 deg 100mm stem
Nitto Noodle bars
TRP RL drilled brake levers
Shimano 8 speed bar end shifters run in friction mode
Spa built wheels, H plus son TB 14 grey ano rims
front 32 sp, Schmidt disc dynohub, 6 bolt
rear 36 sp, Shimano hub, 10 sp 6 bolt
Campag Veloce front and rear mechs,
SKS Longboard mudguards in 'Latte'
Solidlights LED headlight, with XB2 upgrade
Stronglight Impact chainset, 46, 36 , 24 (older 5 arm ones)
UN 55 BB
10 sp cassette, 13 28? IIRC
KMC x9 93, 9 sp chain
Schwalbe marathon greenguard 32mm
I think that's it. I loves it, I does.


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## clid61 (8 Dec 2018)

Genisis Croix De Fer


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## Blue Hills (8 Dec 2018)

yostumpy said:


> View attachment 441784
> IMG_0395 by mark tilley, on Flickr
> 
> I have had the Ridgeback World Panorama Deluxe, (Olive) for 2 years, and covered approx 10,000m so far. I love it to bits, and although I have other bikes, I don't use them now. I even have a full sus MTB, but never use it now, as I use Olive for rough stuff as well. It is quite fast, and nimble. It was bought new, as a complete bike, in a x-mas sale, and has had a bit of a makeover in the 2 years. For those interested I have listed the spec.
> ...


Wonderful understated bike. I rate Ridgebacks. I have 5, bought new and secondand, some as frames. I'm a flatbar bod though. Love my Ridgeback Expedition 26 inch wheel thing - same series as yours. I'd change your rear rack to something tougher though.

But yes a great great bike. And a great colour, though the older Ridgebacks have better, as in tougher, paintjobs.


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## DanZac (8 Dec 2018)

yostumpy said:


> I loves it, I does


And so you should, it's a thing of beauty. Just looking at that makes me want to grab my stuff and get out there on an adventure.


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## Blue Hills (8 Dec 2018)

Just looked at the specs of your beautiful bike yostumpy and intrigued/puzzled.

8 speed shifters (sounds very sensible) but a ten speed cassette with a big cog of only 28?


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## Vantage (8 Dec 2018)

Bit puzzled by that myself......and pushing campag mechs! I take it that's why your shifters are run in friction mode? 
Gorgeous bike though. You should be proud


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