# Front brakes , what are they good for ?



## RufusChucklebutty (17 Dec 2019)

I was pondering the other day that in the last ten years I can't ever think of ever using my front brake, I've never even fitted a new brake pad, my rear brake stops me fine at any speed and if I used a front at any kind of speed I would go head first over the handle bars. The only use for it I can see on a normal commuting or leisure bike is if the rear brake cable snaps, something that has never happened to me. I can't speak for competitive mountain bike or stunt riders because I don't do that. 

I have a 6 mile commute once a week along the flat canal towpath and the bike I use has no front brake ( or front mech ) I just don't need them. 

Possibly doubling up the cable to the rear brake would give you a safety fall back and eliminate the front brake entirely ?


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## IBarrett (17 Dec 2019)

I need both my brakes when going downhill or my fat 'arris would be like a runaway truck heading to a disaster on most downhills.


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## Drago (17 Dec 2019)

Weight transfer makes the rear brake a poor performer when the brown stuff hits the bladed rotating object.


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## Milkfloat (17 Dec 2019)

I probably do about 80% of braking with my front brake, although I use both brakes pretty much every time I stop. About the only time I don't favour the front is on slippery surfaces.


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## Twilkes (17 Dec 2019)

The front brake will stop you more quickly.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html


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## ianrauk (17 Dec 2019)

I'm always wearing out front brake pads far quicker then rear.


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## Dogtrousers (17 Dec 2019)

As above. I use my front brake most of the time. Rear for gradual speed reduction. Front/both for stopping. Front pads wear out first but I normally replace both together because if I'm going to faff around I may as well kill two birds with one stone.


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## si_c (17 Dec 2019)

I only favour my rear brake in icy conditions, and sometimes not even then - your front brake provides the majority of your braking performance.

Haven't been in danger of going over the handlebars since I was about ten.


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## DCLane (17 Dec 2019)

Ride only on the flat?
Go slowly?

Yes to one/both of the above and the rear is fine on it's own.

Me? I live in the hills and the front stops me much faster than the rear, as a result I wear the front pads more heavily than the rear.


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## Illaveago (17 Dec 2019)

As has been said above , the majority of the braking is done with the front brake . The weight transfer places more weight onto the front wheel under braking and lessens that on the rear wheel. The rear brake acts more as a steadying influence .


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## Randy Butternubs (17 Dec 2019)

If you brace against the handlebars you won't go over them unless you are doing *extreme* braking. You can shift your weight back behind the saddle to help if you are bombing down alpine descents or something.


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## Twilkes (17 Dec 2019)

Illaveago said:


> As has been said above , the majority of the braking is done with the front brake . The weight transfer places more weight onto the front wheel under braking and lessens that on the rear wheel. The rear brake acts more as a steadying influence .



Front brake: 'Down with this sort of thing!'
Rear brake: 'Careful now.'


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## fossyant (17 Dec 2019)

Front brake for stopping, rear one controlling speed, or most importantly, when descending a steep tricky off road trail, 'don't use the front brake' - repeat...'don't use the front brake'.


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## fossyant (17 Dec 2019)

Obviously not near traffic either - I used three brakes - very effective (fixed gear leg braking and two brakes).


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## Ajax Bay (17 Dec 2019)

Front brakes are good for decelerating and allowing the rider to react to the unexpected actions of others, to the benefit of all.


RufusChucklebutty said:


> the bike I use has no front brake


Riding a bike with a freewheeling capability, with only one operable brake is a completely unnecessary risk: to both the rider and third parties.


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## raleighnut (17 Dec 2019)

Both brakes used here.


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## Tenkaykev (17 Dec 2019)

I have one of these attached to the rear of my Brompton, excellent stopping power in case of emergency


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## pawl (17 Dec 2019)

If memory serves me correctly some motor bikes had a linked system that applied the front brake before the rear.i never had m/b with this system.I was taught to apply the front brake before the rear.Carried this over to cycling when needing to brake hard.


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## MontyVeda (17 Dec 2019)

I'm like the OP... I know the theory of front brake is more efficient, but I predominantly use the rear brake over the front and have always* managed to stop in time when I've needed to.

*apart from the time i crashed into a bridge, when i somehow failed to use either brake


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## Jody (17 Dec 2019)

What are front brakes good for?

Stoppies


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## dave r (17 Dec 2019)

Front brake for me most of the time, back brake for when its slippery


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## HLaB (17 Dec 2019)

> *Front brakes , what are they good for ?*



STOPPING!

FWIW, Like a lot of people I use the back break for control but the front brake follows up for actually stopping. More and more however, the front is doing the majority (control and stopping) for me and the rear only comes on when its an emergency stop.


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## Seevio (17 Dec 2019)

I use both brakes as I can't remember which lever operates each brake.


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## Mark pallister (17 Dec 2019)

Stopping my bike ,I couldn’t manage with just a rear and I’ve got discs


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Dec 2019)

RufusChucklebutty said:


> I was pondering the other day that in the last ten years I can't ever think of ever using my front brake, I've never even fitted a new brake pad, my rear brake stops me fine at any speed and if I used a front at any kind of speed I would go head first over the handle bars. The only use for it I can see on a normal commuting or leisure bike is if the rear brake cable snaps, something that has never happened to me. I can't speak for competitive mountain bike or stunt riders because I don't do that.
> 
> I have a 6 mile commute once a week along the flat canal towpath and the bike I use has no front brake ( or front mech ) I just don't need them.
> 
> Possibly doubling up the cable to the rear brake would give you a safety fall back and eliminate the front brake entirely ?



You are pulling our collective legs, aren't you?


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Dec 2019)

RufusChucklebutty said:


> the bike I use has no front brake [...] I just don't need them.



I think you'll find the law says otherwise.


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Dec 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I think you'll find the law says otherwise.


Yeah, the laws of physics too.


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## MichaelW2 (17 Dec 2019)

I use the front brake all the time.
Endos only happen under braking if:
Your riding position is very upright.
You don't adjust your weight distribution during heavy braking.
You dont brace against the bars.
You apply the front brake suddenly at full power and dont release power when you feel the tyre breaking away from the road surface.

I have never experienced an endo through braking.
I have slid sideways during rear braking. If you are quick it is recoverable.


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## Racing roadkill (17 Dec 2019)

Always majority brake with the front brake. If you majority brake with the rear brake, it’s akin to using the handbrake to stop in your car. Fixies / track bikes (on a track ) are the exception to the rule.


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## 12boy (17 Dec 2019)

Have you ever pulled a wheel and forgot to return the brake release to the tight position and discovered this when going downhill at 30 mph? Good to have 2 brakes. The muscle memory I've developed over the years puts my hands on the brake levers immediately when a potential threat is sensed and a panic stop is best achieved with two brakes in my opinion. I may have become the kind of old guy that wears both a belt and suspenders in terms of braking but the only time I haven't had a rear brake is when riding fixed. The second brake doesn't add much in terms of weight or complexity, so why not?


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## Andy_R (17 Dec 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I think you'll find the law says otherwise.


OP did say he uses canal paths, not the road. But if at any point he has to use the road then the law comes into effect.


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## derrick (17 Dec 2019)

RufusChucklebutty said:


> I was pondering the other day that in the last ten years I can't ever think of ever using my front brake, I've never even fitted a new brake pad*, my rear brake stops me fine at any speed *and if I used a front at any kind of speed I would go head first over the handle bars. The only use for it I can see on a normal commuting or leisure bike is if the rear brake cable snaps, something that has never happened to me. I can't speak for competitive mountain bike or stunt riders because I don't do that.
> 
> I have a 6 mile commute once a week along the flat canal towpath and the bike I use has no front brake ( or front mech ) I just don't need them.
> 
> Possibly doubling up the cable to the rear brake would give you a safety fall back and eliminate the front brake entirely ?


You obviously don't go very fast. Or you have never needed to stop quickly.


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## raleighnut (17 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> If memory serves me correctly some motor bikes had a linked system that applied the front brake before the rear.i never had m/b with this system.I was taught to apply the front brake before the rear.Carried this over to cycling when needing to brake hard.




Moto Guzzi had a linked system where the pedal brake operated both the rear brake and 1 of the front discs with the hand lever operating the other front disc.

Harley had a system where neither brake did very much towards slowing the bike down


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Dec 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Moto Guzzi had a linked system where the pedal brake operated both the rear brake and 1 of the front discs with the hand lever operating the other front disc.
> 
> Harley had a system where neither brake did very much towards slowing the bike down


You are right about the Guzzi. The 850 Le Mans III was my ride for a while.
However, I'm sure you have your facts mixed up with the Harley. I heard that it had a crude, complicated, noisy engine that doesn't do much towards speeding the bike up. Maybe I heard wrong.


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## MontyVeda (17 Dec 2019)

MichaelW2 said:


> I use the front brake all the time.
> *Endos only happen under braking if:
> Your riding position is very upright.
> You don't adjust your weight distribution during heavy braking.
> ...


I know three people who've gone over the bars and damaged themselves quite badly... two 'accidentally' hit the front instead of the back and didn't realise just how sharp V brakes were, they also broke their collar bones. The other wasn't going very fast but another rider cut in front of him whilst he only had one hand on the bars and had to 'slam' on his front brake. Face planted. He wasn't a pretty sight for a while. 

My back brake may be less efficient but it doesn't send me over the bars.


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## Dogtrousers (17 Dec 2019)

When I was a wee lad with a paper round and a penchant for fettling bikes, one day I serviced my brakes. Then I tested them.

Early risers looking out of their bedroom windows may have been surprised to see the paper boy riding serenely down the road suddenly, and for no reason, launch himself over the handlebars.


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## Sharky (17 Dec 2019)

If you feel that front braking will send you over, I would suggest that the brake isn't set up right. You should be able to apply pressure gently for gentle stopping and should be able to increase pressure to increase the stopping need without feeling that the front wheel is going to lock and send you over.

If you apply force to the rear, it is quite easy to lock the rear wheel and you will just skid and even start to jack knife.

Some fixie riders, without any brakes actually lock their rear wheels and force a skid to stop. Highly illegal and not a safe way of stopping.

However, if you are stopping ok at the speeds you are riding, then no need to change.


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## wisdom (17 Dec 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I probably do about 80% of braking with my front brake, although I use both brakes pretty much every time I stop. About the only time I don't favour the front is on slippery surfaces.


Same here.


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## pawl (17 Dec 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Moto Guzzi had a linked system where the pedal brake operated both the rear brake and 1 of the front discs with the hand lever operating the other front disc.
> 
> Harley had a system where neither brake did very much towards slowing the bike down



Thanks for that Couldn’t remember the make.I assume it wasn’t taken up by other makes.
I haven’t ridden.a motorcycle for many years.


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## raleighnut (17 Dec 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> You are right about the Guzzi. The 850 Le Mans III was my ride for a while.
> However, I'm sure you have your facts mixed up with the Harley. I heard that it had a crude, complicated, noisy engine that doesn't do much towards speeding the bike up. Maybe I heard wrong.


Nah you're right but the engine makes more braking power than acceleration (and more noise than either)


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## raleighnut (17 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> Thanks for that Couldn’t remember the make.I assume it wasn’t taken up by other makes.
> I haven’t ridden.a motorcycle for many years.


I think Honda may have tried it on their shoppingarcade Aspencade for a while too.


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## snorri (17 Dec 2019)

If my memory serves me right, long before 'cycle training', I was told when first learning to use a bicycle never to use the front brake as I would be in danger of going over the handlebars. That was probably quite good advice for someone too young to understand the theories of weight transfer or front and rear wheel skids.
By the time I had mastered the balancing thing and other basic skills I suppose I had discovered for myself the benefits and risks of back and front brake usage.


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## Smudge (17 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> Thanks for that Couldn’t remember the make.I assume it wasn’t taken up by other makes.
> I haven’t ridden.a motorcycle for many years.



Many motorcycles over the years have had linked braking systems, i've had it on at least 3 bikes. Honda Blackbird and Honda Varadero. It was also on my Yam Super Tenere 1200.


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## keithmac (17 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> If memory serves me correctly some motor bikes had a linked system that applied the front brake before the rear.i never had m/b with this system.I was taught to apply the front brake before the rear.Carried this over to cycling when needing to brake hard.



Honda's CBS (Combined Braking System) uses the middle piston on the front calipers to apply front braking when you press the rear pedal.

There's a reason why all cars have significantly bigger brakes on the front and bias to the front, same with Motorcycles (big twin front disks, little single rear disk).

I brake with the front and rear together on my pushbike, emergency stop is the most you can apply to the front while feeling for grip with the back wheel!. Back back only would be a skid and more than likey an impact of some sort!.


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## Illaveago (17 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> If memory serves me correctly some motor bikes had a linked system that applied the front brake before the rear.i never had m/b with this system.I was taught to apply the front brake before the rear.Carried this over to cycling when needing to brake hard.


Moto Guzzi had a linked system.


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## Illaveago (17 Dec 2019)

I think the going over the handlebars when applying the front brake means that you have left the braking too late.
I did it back in the early 70's. Slammed on both brakes and over I went still in my rat traps. Ended up with a buckled rear wheel .


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## Fab Foodie (17 Dec 2019)

Look at modern sport motorcycles, 2 huge disc as the front, one tiny one at the back. That’s about all you need to know to answer the question. Watch moto gp or similar, under hard breaking the rear wheel is barely in contact with the road.


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## Donger (17 Dec 2019)

I have the stopping distance of an oil tanker and do a lot of hilly rides. Halving my number of brakes is not a sane option.


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## CXRAndy (18 Dec 2019)

pawl said:


> If memory serves me correctly some motor bikes had a linked system that applied the front brake before the rear.i never had m/b with this system.I was taught to apply the front brake before the rear.Carried this over to cycling when needing to brake hard.



My Yamaha has linked brakes, 2 pots out of 6 are used when trail braking

Honda Goldwing link one caliper on the front to the rear brake system.

In fact I would expect many motorcycles to have linked brakes with abs. Both my motorcycles have linked ABS systems


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## CXRAndy (18 Dec 2019)

Donger said:


> I have the stopping distance of an oil tanker and do a lot of hilly rides. Halving my number of brakes is not a sane option.



I upgraded from hydraulic Shimano discs calipers to Hope RX4 calipers. 4 pots per caliper and larger pads.


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## fossyant (18 Dec 2019)

My 90's MTB has ABS...



Argh, Bloody Stop !!


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## Ajax Bay (18 Dec 2019)

Andy_R said:


> OP did say he uses canal paths, not the road. But if at any point he has to use the road then the law comes into effect.


I was going to invoke the wrath of the 'law' but then couldn't find the relevant regulation which (may or may not) require two brakes. I expect @mjr will be able to oblige/elaborate.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> I was going to invoke the wrath of the 'law' but then couldn't find the relevant regulation which (may or may not) require two brakes. I expect @mjr will be able to oblige/elaborate.


Regulations 7-10 of http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1176/made which I found cited in Appendix A of the Highway Code.

Various exceptions exist but I think it's simplest to have front and back brakes to remove all doubt and reduce risk of delay if you meet police who don't know the exceptions.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2019)

Another thing not mentioned is the rear wheel, especially rims but even discs, normally picks up more shoot than the front (compare crud accumulation in rear stays with crud on front forks), so it wears the braking surfaces and pads faster in the same effort.

Personally, my main uses of rear brake are slowing down gently downhill and doing hill starts.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Dec 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> I was going to invoke the wrath of the 'law' but then couldn't find the relevant regulation which (may or may not) require two brakes. I expect @mjr will be able to oblige/elaborate.


Lunchtime google to the rescue 

Pedal Cycle Construction and Use Regulations 1983
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1176/pdfs/uksi_19831176_en.pdf

I think this says basically if it's a fixie you need a front brake. If it isn't, you need a front and a rear brake. But I'm not fluent in legalese so I could be wrong.






Edit. Nuts. I wasn't quick enough.


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## Johnno260 (18 Dec 2019)

If you take the bike on the roads then it's a legal requirement I believe, I know the OP said it's mainly off road but if you use it on the road then it needs to be legal.

If you feel the brake is too strong, then I would suggest taking it to a local bike shop for a brake service.


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## derrick (18 Dec 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> If you take the bike on the roads then it's a legal requirement I believe, I know the OP said it's mainly off road but if you use it on the road then it needs to be legal.
> 
> *If you feel the brake is too strong, then I would suggest taking it to a local bike shop for a brake service.*


Or just learn how to apply brakes.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> If you take the bike on the roads then it's a legal requirement I believe, I know the OP said it's mainly off road but if you use it on the road then it needs to be legal.
> 
> If you feel the brake is too strong, then I would suggest taking it to a local bike shop for a brake service.


Remember that "on the roads" in law includes most untarmacked roads, often confusingly called "off-road". Some canal towpaths (as mentioned in post #1) are one of the few exceptions and I have none near me so I don't know the Canals and Rivers Trust rules on cycle construction.

Eta: agree on brake service and use.


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## Sharky (18 Dec 2019)

And for trikes, you can have two front brakes


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## Dogtrousers (18 Dec 2019)

But it would appear that you don't need any brakes at all if you are riding a unicycle or a penny farthing where the pedals drive the wheel directly.





And if you are a temporary visitor from abroad you are subject to the International Convention on Road Traffic, Geneva 1949 which means you only need one brake, but it has to be an efficient one. But you must have a bell.


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## derrick (18 Dec 2019)

Sharky said:


> And for trikes, you can have two front brakes


Where would you put them.


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## Crankarm (18 Dec 2019)

I think the OP might be very slightly trolling?


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## Dogtrousers (18 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> Where would you put them.
> View attachment 496928


Tut tut.

That _*clearly *_falls under regulation 9 of Pedal Cycle Construction and Use Regulations 1983, which exempts _any cycle so constructed so that the pedals act on any wheel or on the axle of any wheel, without the interposition of any gearing or chain_.

Do try to keep up


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## Sharky (18 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> Where would you put them.



One drum brake and one rim brake - nothing on the rear


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## Ajax Bay (18 Dec 2019)

Not much chance of an 'endo' on that.


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## MontyVeda (18 Dec 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> I was going to invoke the wrath of the 'law' but then couldn't find the relevant regulation which (may or may not) require two brakes. ...


Regulations aside... having two working brakes is common sense. If one fails you've got the other


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## Smokin Joe (18 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> Or just learn how to apply brakes.


^^This^^

If you launch yourself over the bars when you apply the front brake you are doing something sadly wrong.


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## Johnno260 (18 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> Or just learn how to apply brakes.



I was making the assumption he is using them correctly, but yes this as well.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2019)

MontyVeda said:


> Regulations aside... having two working brakes is common sense. If one fails you've got the other


And if all brakes fail, you've got shoes...


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## Dogtrousers (18 Dec 2019)

12boy said:


> Have you ever pulled a wheel and forgot to return the brake release to the tight position and discovered this when going downhill at 30 mph?


I did this with both wheels. I got a lift to the start of a ride. Assembled my bike, set off towards the start but saw a friend sitting on a wall. I put my brakes on. Nothing (well ... not much) I waved as I sailed past but fortunately wasn't going very fast and managed to turn the bike up hill to stop.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> I did this with both wheels. I got a lift to the start of a ride. Assembled my bike, set off towards the start but saw a friend sitting on a wall. I put my brakes on. Nothing (well ... not much) I waved as I sailed past but fortunately wasn't going very fast and managed to turn the bike up hill to stop.


I always test both brakes within about 20m of pushing off. No-one could trust my schoolmates not to have been sabotaging bikes in the shed and it's a good habit to have.


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## Brandane (18 Dec 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Moto Guzzi had a linked system where the pedal brake operated both the rear brake and 1 of the front discs with the hand lever operating the other front disc.


Honda had/have a linked braking system too; I have it on my 2002 VFR 800. Front brake lever operates 2 out of the 3 pistons on each caliper of the front brake, as well as 1 of the 3 pistons on the rear. Rear brake pedal operates 2 of the 3 pistons on the rear brake, plus 1 of the 3 on each of the front calipers.
IMHO a total over complication and unnecessary. I was always taught to use both brakes with about 70% effort going on the front, 30% on the rear (take note, OP!). Stick to that and you shouldn't need a linked braking system. And don't start me on trying to replace brake fluid on those systems; a total PITA!


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Dec 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> Not much chance of an 'endo' on that.



Depends on where her right hand is.


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## Globalti (18 Dec 2019)

Front rim always stays cleaner than the rear so in wet weather I use mostly the front brake to avoid wearing out my rear rim.


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## HLaB (18 Dec 2019)

Globalti said:


> Front rim always stays cleaner than the rear so in wet weather I use mostly the front brake to avoid wearing out my rear rim.


I'd normally agree with you but after the 55mile club run on wet/mucky roads my front rim was mockit and my rear rim was relatively clean. I knew I was starting to favour the front break but


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## Landsurfer (18 Dec 2019)

On my bicycle I use my rear brake 90% of the time ... on my motor bike i use my front brake 90% of the time ...
Weight transfer and traction ...
The gods of stopping .....
Safely ...
And I love the feel of a twitchy bike of any type ... if it's moving around under me I can control it .... Well so far ...


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## Chris S (19 Dec 2019)

I only use my front brake when the rear has failed to stop me, e.g. in the wet. By then the bike has still slowed down enough to stop me going over the handlebars.


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## si_c (19 Dec 2019)

Chris S said:


> I only use my front brake when the rear has failed to stop me, e.g. in the wet. By then the bike has still slowed down enough to stop me going over the handlebars.


If you're going over the handlebars then you are using your brake incorrectly or it's setup very badly. I've not come close to going over the handlebars since my brother put a stick in my front wheel aged 8.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Dec 2019)

si_c said:


> If you're going over the handlebars then you are using your brake incorrectly



It will be this. There is no way you can adjust a cycle brake so it is too sharp unless the blocks are so low they are jamming in the spokes. 

If I didn't trust myself to brake without going over the bars I'd question whether I was safe enough to be riding at all.


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## raleighnut (19 Dec 2019)

si_c said:


> If you're going over the handlebars then you are using your brake incorrectly or it's setup very badly. I've not come close to going over the handlebars since my brother put a stick in my front wheel aged 8.


I dunno my Road Ace can be a sod if 'panic braking' is called for, you can lock either wheel with one finger so grabbing a handful can be painful. Not sure if it's a compatibility problem but it shouldn't be, 105 calipers and TT bar end levers.







They're just immensely powerful.


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## Chris S (19 Dec 2019)

I've got caliper brakes on steel rims, the pads don't touch the tyre or spokes. Anything more than a slight touch in the dry is enough to lock the front wheel.


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## Ajax Bay (19 Dec 2019)

Chris S said:


> Anything more than a slight touch in the dry is enough to lock the front wheel.


How do you know? When the front wheel locked (the last time you achieved this by "a slight touch" on tarmac) was a hospital visit required?


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## Chris S (19 Dec 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> How do you know? When the front wheel locked (the last time you achieved this by "a slight touch" on tarmac) was a hospital visit required?


Yes - and I've still got the scar


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## Apollonius (19 Dec 2019)

Having spent most of my younger days riding fixed-wheel, I hardly ever use my back brake.


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

Brakes ? HUH what are they good for ? absolutely nothing LOL


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

raleighnut said:


> I dunno my Road Ace can be a sod if 'panic braking' is called for, you can lock either wheel with one finger so grabbing a handful can be painful. Not sure if it's a compatibility problem but it shouldn't be, 105 calipers and TT bar end levers.
> 
> View attachment 497027
> 
> ...


That is one shoot hot set up similair to mine but far better


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## Smudge (19 Dec 2019)

clid61 said:


> Brakes ? HUH what are they good for ? absolutely nothing LOL



Relax Frankie.


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> Relax Frankie.


Frankie ? !! You need to go way further back than those trumped up scouse divas Pal !!


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## Smudge (19 Dec 2019)

clid61 said:


> Frankie ? !! You need to go way further back than those trumped up scouse divas Pal !!



I liked their cover of it.


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> I liked their cover of it.


Admit it was good but nothing like Edwin Starr


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

Anyways off topic . I run a caliper up front on my town bike , its enough


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## clid61 (19 Dec 2019)

Smudge , who was the the young lad that did a gig with FGTH singing instead of Holly , he was really good !?


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## Smudge (19 Dec 2019)

clid61 said:


> Smudge , who was the the young lad that did a gig with FGTH singing instead of Holly , he was really good !?



I cant remember.
It was only the Welcome To The Pleasuredome album in the mid 80's that really interested me about that band.


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## raleighnut (19 Dec 2019)

clid61 said:


> That is one shoot hot set up similair to mine but far better


Thanks.


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## raleighnut (19 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> I cant remember.
> It was only the Welcome To The Pleasuredome album in the mid 80's that really interested me about that band.


Aye, Trevor Horn was a genius.


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## Smudge (20 Dec 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Aye, Trevor Horn was a genius.



Yup, more his album than theirs. None the worse for that though.


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## clid61 (20 Dec 2019)

found it 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbCEF4sYSiY


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## Smudge (21 Dec 2019)

clid61 said:


> found it
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbCEF4sYSiY




Not seen that performance before. Great stuff and that guy did an excellent job of stepping into Holly Johnson's shoes.
The title track was always my favourite track on that album.


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## mjr (21 Dec 2019)

Wouldn't Turin Brakes be more appropriate? Contains cycling advice.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkIZXKJmZ38


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