# Dutch-made Brompton telescopic handlebar stem



## snazpizaz (23 Dec 2019)

Hi

I've found that a dutch company is making telescopic handlebar stems for Brompton.

https://www.eerdermetaal.nl/telescopische_stuurpen.html
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/558868634984962583/?lp=true

View: https://nl.pinterest.com/pin/558868634984289459/?lp=true


I think it looks great for what i need (more upright cycling). Was wondering about weight and impact on integrety of the original stem.
Does anyone here have any experience or comments to make about this product ?

I picked up the original mention in a 2009 post:
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/600398-raising-handlebars-brompton.html

cheers s


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## berlinonaut (23 Dec 2019)

I do own one [Mod Edit: personal attack deleted]


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## rafiki (23 Dec 2019)

I'd be very interested in your experience of it @berlinonaut . If you have posted about it in another forum I'd be grateful for the link.


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## berlinonaut (23 Dec 2019)

I am happy to answer to you @rafiki. These cut down stems were invented in the 90ies when there was no Brompton bar apart from the "M"-model. Steve Parry wanted to have straight bars due to more stiffness and sportiness on his modified Bromptons and so he created the mod, initially by welding a longer tube onto a cut down Brompton stem and adding the straight bars via a ahead-stem to it (lower and thus sportier than M was possible). Later he created the adjustable version consisting of two parts, lower part being a cut down M-stem, typically in combination with a suspended post-moderne seat post as upper part which offered a kind of front suspension as a bonus. The same mod was later made and sold by Ben Cooper of Kinetics and, in a slightly different version, by a Dutch bike shop (forgot the name), with the Dutch guys (in opposite to Steve Parry) having in mind higher bars than the M on the stock Brompton offered. The latter is what is now sold by Vincent van Eerd and I suspect he may have been the maker of the Dutch version from day one on.

Today we have a variety of Brompton stems, offering different bars and heights, including the S with a straight bar and the H which is higher than the M. So the need for this mod has somewhat vanished. It still has it's advantages today (along with some downsides).

I do own two of those stems, both of them bought second hand, one made by Steve Parry and one sold by the Dutch bike shop ages ago (it is based on a MK2 stem, so really old). What's important to know is that these mods are based on the M stem before 2017, other stem models do not work due to the stem angle as far as I know (I may be proven wrong) and I do not know if the newer M-stems from 2017 on will work. 
_edit/correction: Following the current page of Vincent van Eerd ist looks as if the S-stem would also be an option as a basis for the conversion. I am pretty sure someone told me that the P-stem would not work, so this would leave the H-stem as an open question. /edit_

The M-stem is cut slightly above the screw that is holding the plastic knob that attaches the stem to the forks in folded state - until there both mods are identical and here's where the differences start. There are two of them: Steve Parry brazes on two lugs that clamp the upper part to the lower part using hex bolts while Vincent van Eerd is using a quick release lever, simpler, but as effective. The second difference is the inner part: Steve Parry is using a machined metal shim to bring the tube to the right inner size while Vincent van Eerd is using a machined plastic tube. Both end up with 27,2mm inner size (at least my two do - it may be the case that more current Eerd-conversions use a different, possibly smaller size).

As a consequence with the Steve Parry Version you set the height once and if you want to change it you need tools. With the Dutch version you can adjust on the go through the quick release. I consider this to be an advantage as you can adjust the bar height based on your daily mood (or the head wind that approaches you) and can furthermore use higher bars than on the SP version as you can lower them before folding w/o additional tools. The SP version clamps however a tiny bit better due to the two bolts.

If you want to modify yourself you'll be having a hard time finding a stem with 27,2mm - almost impossible to find ourdays. Suspended seat posts in 27,2mm are plenty available, to find one that is able to take a handle bar and at the same time offers a suspension level that works on a stem and does not have side play is a bit of a challenge. I ended up buying a bunch of different seat posts until I found one that works ok enough in all aspects. There is another issue: As Vincent van Eerd writes on his webpage the amount of height variation is somewhat limited: for one by the maximum what the stem or seat post is offering regarding max. height and secondly by what the Brompton stem is able to take regarding lower position. Depending from the bars that you are using the upper limit is possibly more relevant as longer stems are hard to get hold of and, as they are made of steel, they are heavy as hell. You can use 25,4mm stems (that are easier to get hold of) by adding shims but this affects stability a bit. Seat posts are available in 300mm and 350mm (with the usable length/extension being considerably less), so less of an issue here, but still limited. Long classic stems are rarely to be found in our days, so max entension is somewhat limited with those.

When you are using straight bars on a converted M-stem you are going to end up with an overall height considerably lower than the stock M - probably around the 100cm mark with either of the two options. When you are using a conventional, long stem it is about the same with straight bars. When you are using a riser bar the overall height depends from the rise of the bars but when going considerably higher than stock M chances are that the bars will hit the ground in folded state. Thus the combination of suspended seat post and stock M-bars will not be possible as it would end up way too high. So depending from your desired height you may have to hunt for an appropriate riser bar that is lower than the factory Brompton bars such as the Joseph Kusoac bars or alike - apart from these models of this kind that fit properly onto a Brompton can be challenging to find.

The mod as sold by Vincent van Eerd seems to use a shorter conventional stem in combination with the stock Brompton M-bars, so you avoid a lot of issues and research (but some possible gains as well).

_As he alternatively seems to use an S-stem as a basis and this is cut higher from the ground than the M you might be able to go a little higher with that._

Both stems lack an orientation helper or ruler - not much of an Issue with the SP version but if you regularly rise or lower your bars with the Dutch version it is annoying to constantly get the thing in line with your front wheel w/o any support, especially if you have a front bag mounted to the carrier block.

I am using the Dutch (quick release) version along with a suspended seat post and a 8cm riser bar (which is the max possible in this setup) on my touring Brompton and like the setup in general. It is however a bit fragile as, being a sporty rider, with massive bumps the seatpost may sack into the stem a little bit sometimes (really rarely and maybe caused by the fact that the stem and more important the plastic shim inside have been in use for probably 20 years and thus the shim probably suffers from some wear), and the need for (re)adjustment of allignment with the front wheel each time after changing the height is enerving. Furthermore the construction adds weight and, as the seat post is obviously straight and misses the angle of the original stem reach is shorter and has to be reestablished by the angle of the riser bars in my case which looks a little strange. Using a suspended seat post way from it's intended and warrantied purpose in a slightly weird construction to hold your bars (and thus your control of the bike) is psychologically nothing for the fainted hearted as well. 

So, would I recommend this mod? Depends. With the SP Version you'd typically end up with a max height of shortly below 100cm height plus bars, so basically what the S-model is offering from factory. If you are using a suspended seat post as upper part and are not too tall (so that this height or at max, the height of the original M-Model is enough) it may be an option. If you need to go higher than M overall (including bars) this hinders the stem from folding properly. W/o the use of a suspended seat post I do not see an outcome that you could not achieve with one of the factory stems easier, cheaper, less fragile and with less weight.

With the Dutch version as it comes from Vincent van Eerd you can go higher than M, but this can today far easier be achieved by buying a H-stem that furthermore does not need to be lowered before folding. That leaves as advantages the optional possibility of suspension and of rising and lowering the stem on the go which I like on my touring Brompton. But then again the latter is a more complicated way to achieve more or less the same variability in grip positions that is offered by the P-stem and bars (that are no longer available since mid 2019 and apart from that are not very aesthetic).

So today this mod is of very limited use in my opinion, but for those who appreciate exactly that use or have special needs (like usage of the bike by multiple riders of massively different height) it may still be worth it. A huge advantage in my eyes is that it is possible to find out which bar height you like best by testing it in very granular steps w/o extra effort and have the possibility to quickly adjust (whereas with the stock stems you are set and limited from the beginning and, while experimenting with different bars is possible, is a lot more effort each time you change, the adjustment steps are bigger and it quickly starts to become pricey and annoying as well).

One should be aware that the page about the stem mod on Vincent van Eerd's website is no longer reachable via the sites navigation but only through the direct link https://www.eerdermetaal.nl/telescopische_stuurpen.html and a link from within some text on his homepage which probably means he has stopped offering it. He may however still be open to build such a stem, it just seems no longer to be part of his primary offering, maybe because of some of reasons I outlined above or simply due to lack of demand - I don't know.

If you want to create a mod like that yourself: I think in the picture archives of the bromptontalk mailing list that just moved over to groups.io is a picture story of someone who did it himself, including a parts list and detailed description of the work; I think he was using a Batavus stem for his mod.

Management summary:

Positive:
+ very granular adjustment of the bar height w/o extra effort
+ adjustment of the height on a daily basis according to your mood and needs
+ possibility to add front suspension

Negative:
- adds weight
- cost
- a little loss in stability
- one extra step for folding/unfolding when using high bar positions
(- advanced setups need massive fiddeling and research of parts)
(- using a suspended seat post as a stem replacement is a little bit frightening)

Neutral:
° today different (fixed) bar heights can be achieved easier, lighter and cheaper through factory stems and/or 3rd party handlebars and/or risers like the "aberhallo" or the Tern Andros
° still limitations regarding the possible amount of adjustment, especially when using the suspension mod.
° front suspension on a Brompton can today far simpler be achieved by using suspended velospring handlebar grips, way less frightening than the seatpost solution but unfortunately not cheap either.


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## Schwinnsta (24 Dec 2019)

Thanks for writing this up.


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## Pat "5mph" (26 Dec 2019)

Mod Note:
personal attacks and cross forum bickering have been deleted.
Please stay on topic, please refrain from personal attacks.
Any more instances of the above will result in thread bans.
Thank you,
thread reopened.


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## Rocky (26 Dec 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Mod Note:
> personal attacks and cross forum bickering have been deleted.
> Please stay on topic, please refrain from personal attacks.
> Any more instances of the above will result in thread bans.
> ...


Thank you Pat, I thought us folding bike owners were mild mannered creatures who wouldn't say boo to a goose.

I've never seen the need for telescopic handlebar stems for a Brommie, given the different length available from the manufacturer. Plus there's always the issue of whether the cables will fit - I know that converting a P to an L (which I've done) requires new brake and gear cables.


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## 12boy (29 Dec 2019)

I hate the damn geese. They are abundant here on the paths, crap copiously everywhere and don't get out of the way. Unfortunately they are protected so they cannot be eaten. However, a shrill whistle will shift the buggers since it is similar to the noise hawks make. All that aside, I appreciate the level of manners and respect I find on this forum.


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## berlinonaut (29 Dec 2019)

Brompton Bruce said:


> I've never seen the need for telescopic handlebar stems for a Brommie, given the different length available from the manufacturer.


As I wrote: At the time when they were invented there was no choice. 



Brompton Bruce said:


> Plus there's always the issue of whether the cables will fit - I know that converting a P to an L (which I've done) requires new brake and gear cables.


Obviously you'll need longer cables when adding height to your handle bars. Too long cables are an issue with the fold as are too short ones on the unfolded bike. One could expect trouble with the cables on a height-adjustable stem but luckily this proved not to be true, at least in my case.

Regarding your conversion possibly something went wrong in the description: P is a stem/bar combination and L is a Brompton w/o rack but with mudguards. Thus you could easily have a PL-Brompton whereas converting a P to an L sounds a little bit unrideable due to additional mudguards in the wrong place instead of a bar.


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## Rocky (30 Dec 2019)

berlinonaut said:


> As I wrote: At the time when they were invented there was no choice.
> 
> 
> Obviously you'll need longer cables when adding height to your handle bars. Too long cables are an issue with the fold as are too short ones on the unfolded bike. One could expect trouble with the cables on a height-adjustable stem but luckily this proved not to be true, at least in my case.
> ...


Yes. Silly me....I meant M but in my haste typed L.


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## steveindenmark (31 Dec 2019)

How can you attack someone for discussing a handlebar stem? 

The mind boggles. 😁

I would imagine the stem use is very limited as there is not much play in the cables.


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## snazpizaz (31 Dec 2019)

Hi thanks folks

The project here is to replace the h type handlebar with a vintage handlebar:
https://www.ergotec.de/en/products/lenker/sub/city-trekking-lenker/produkt/toulouse-bugel-25-4.html
That means the 155mm height of the m type handlebar which comes on my h type stem is lost and i need to make it up. I had decided on a combo solution of an andres stem mounted on a prolite riser:
https://www.ternbicycles.com/gear/472/andros-stem
on a
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Litepro-bike-handlebar-riser-stem-adjustable-double-stem-extender-25-4mm-412SP8/193158967354?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20131017132637&meid=e52bc6784e6a4ecca85eb911f0a85191&pid=100033&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=273563026739&itm=193158967354&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2045573&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042
I went for the pro lite over the aber hallo because the wide bar allows me to mount the andros stem handles centrally so it will engage with the mid-section/ the 25.4mm section of the handlebar and essentially act as a centre stem.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SATORI-A...802083?hash=item4407a18563:g:-7sAAOSwq15dxhKX
was rejected.
All the folding works in terms of measurements. The over all height of the combo risers is a around 148mm so there's some slack on the cables. I want to use this to mount gear and brake levers on the swept back grips. Not convinced it's enough so may need to extend the cable. The dutch guy seems to do this so in the pics in the links above so in theory i can too.

SO ! - when i saw the dutch telescopic stem - i figured this is better than the three section stem above.
Noting B-onaut's detailed post - i will be contacting the dutch guy and seeing if he is able to prepare an H type stem with a telescopic rise which can solve the issues i need to cover. If he offers take on the project, then his solution is more elegant and less volatile though more expensive.

I haven't yet looked at the DIY telescopic stem project mentioned. B-onaut seems jumpy about the reliability of the idea. Given the alternative options, i'm not so sure, if the basics are doable, it may be a viable avenue.

Note that this is an upright conversion so the leaning into the handlebar position of the S and M type riding bars wont be an issue and no/very little rider weight will be forced down onto the handlebar.

sp


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## Blue Hills (31 Dec 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> How can you attack someone for discussing a handlebar stem?
> 
> The mind boggles. 😁
> 
> I would imagine the stem use is very limited as there is not much play in the cables.


Agree - i clearly missed the bizarre ugliness.


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## berlinonaut (31 Dec 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I would imagine the stem use is very limited as there is not much play in the cables.


Luckily cables are exchangable...


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## berlinonaut (31 Dec 2019)

snazpizaz said:


> i will be contacting the dutch guy and seeing if he is able to prepare an H type stem with a telescopic rise which can solve the issues i need to cover. If he offers take on the project, then his solution is more elegant and less volatile though more expensive.



In theory it should work. With most stems you need an input of about 10cm inside in the steerer, this means in the case of the modified Brompton stem about 10cm of straight tube in the cut down stem. This should work out with the H stem (just checked on one of the shorter H-stems before 2017, no idea how it is with the newer, slightly higher version - probably better). Trouble is that only anything above those 10cms equals the room for possible adjustment in height - which is not too much with the H stem (als you are using the upper, forward angled section of the stem here instead of the slightly longer lower non angled section on an M-stem). But for your purpose it should probably work. Though it would in your case probably be more elegant to cut the steerer and to just weld a longer piece of tube onto it that is then able to take an ordinary ahead stem (with the benefit of being able to optimize reach). With an h stem you could go as high as H-stem + handlebars (assuming this longer stem would not conflict with the axle of the front wheel when folded). This would however create another problem as for a convenient fold you have to turn the Toulouse handlebars when folding which involves a using quick release on the fixing of the handlebar - not too easy to achieve with an ahead stem (but not really better with a conventional stem as Vincent van Eerd is using it).




snazpizaz said:


> I haven't yet looked at the DIY telescopic stem project mentioned. B-onaut seems jumpy about the reliability of the idea.



No, how do you come to that conclusion? The thing is working flawlessly in general (mine is probably just a bit worn) and Vincent van Eerd has been doing heavy Brompton and other mods for ages so I consider him absolutely qualified and would not hesitate to trust him. Same goes for Steve Parry. At the same time this mod is not too difficult, absolutely possible to do it at home if you know what you are doing.

The only thing that I dislike a bit is that the safety of your steering as well as the possibility for steering solely relies on a single quick release lever w/o any second line of defense and w/o locking mechanism. In case something goes wrong with it for whatever reason the result will unavoidably be a crash. I that aspect the Steve Parry version is a little more safe in my eyes as are most (but not all) quick release stems that come from factory for other bikes.
Possibly using a speedlifter (or it's cheaper clone satori easy up) could be possible and an interesting variant of this mod.

Maybe before heavy investment it'd be a good idea to test your desired setup in practice using a cheap stem from ebay like this (as it has all the ingredients including quick fold of the handlebar)?


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## snazpizaz (31 Dec 2019)

Hi - cheers
1. @ B-onaut - you mentioned a DIY on a brompton board - and you seemed concerned about cutting down seat posts etc. I haven't yet go to looking at it.
2. QR @ handlebar clamp - yes - exactly - i need to twist the handlebars down for folding and this requires a quick release at the clamp. I've done some initial posting on the subject and it's an option people use - eg: 
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-...nd-quick-release-bolt-brompton-handlebar.html
Others share your safety concerns but i suspect it's about sourcing and matching good quality suitable parts. The Andros is designed to be used on a constant basis - so simple QR levers may have that capacity too. With the dutch-telescopic there's still more stability than with a double riser combo. The number of QRs/securing bolts get reduced to just one at the clamp.
3. QR / lock @ telescopic stem - B-onaut mentioned some concerns about the durability of these if i understand correctly - but i'm not so familiar with their failure rate. I'm assuming any used by the guy building it will be discussed and prove suitable. I can see how a welded bar will eliminate the issue. I've not yet posted anything on this subject to solicit wider opinion but as the option exists in components i'm assuming it can be considered as safe to a degree. I guess the degree depends on intended use.
3. In theory i don't need to telescope the riser, Though i wont say no to a handlebar positioned slightly higher than the current H type bar placement. I guess up to another 10mm of height would suffice if feasible / worth the cost. The main thing is that the extended length reaches current h type stem height with m type handlebar mounted. It seems to me any telescopic/welded bar will clear the wheel axle folded.

If i go this route i'll have a chat with the guy who'll be doing it and i guess that will produce the options. I can bring some of this content to the discussion - cheers
sp


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## berlinonaut (31 Dec 2019)

snazpizaz said:


> 1. @ B-onaut - you mentioned a DIY on a brompton board - and you seemed concerned about cutting down seat posts etc.


Don't know where you are getting this from and I surely did not write a single word about "cutting down seat posts".



snazpizaz said:


> 2. QR @ handlebar clamp - yes - exactly - i need to twist the handlebars down for folding and this requires a quick release at the clamp. I've done some initial posting on the subject and it's an option people use


I use one on my Brecki and it works fine - but, being a recumbent, there is no force applied to it while riding. Others use it with conventional stems and it seems to work there, too. Still it is only holding the bars horizontally, so if it gives up it will surely be unpleasent but you still will be able to steer and brake. Whereas if the quick release on the dutch stem is giving up your stem is moving vertically AND sideways. You would loose the ability to steer as your bars and your movement of those are no longer influencing the front wheel and this will almost surely lead to a crash.



snazpizaz said:


> The Andros is designed to be used on a constant basis - so simple QR levers may have that capacity too.


Yes, but it is using two clamps, so you have double the force and an additional layer of saftety through the two clamps. Plus the clamps have a saftety mechanism (at least Andros version one had).



snazpizaz said:


> With the dutch-telescopic there's still more stability than with a double riser combo.


That's for sure.


snazpizaz said:


> The number of QRs/securing bolts get reduced to just one at the clamp.


That's rather a disadvantage than an advantage in terms of saftety.



snazpizaz said:


> 3. In theory i don't need to telescope the riser, Though i wont say no to a handlebar positioned slightly higher than the current H type bar placement. I guess up to another 10mm of height would suffice if feasible / worth the cost. The main thing is that the extended length reaches current h type stem height with m type handlebar mounted.


Ergonomically the H bar is way too high for most people apart from the tallest ones, still people seem to like it. If you are using a Toulouse bar you have far less reach to the grips thus you will need way less height than with more reach/a "normal" bar. Higher than H would be basically like on a Dutch bike and possibly not very comfy or ergonomic on a Brompton.


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## 12boy (31 Dec 2019)

Been using a QR for 6-7 years and no trouble with it whatsoever except with a Velo Orange Milano bar, shaped much like the Toulouse bar you have shown. The clamp on the Brompton handlebar post is narrow and the leverage exerted on the the handlebar grips is considerable since the hand position is far behind the clamp. My Milano would slip down even when the QR was extremely tight. I switched it out to a Soma moustache bar and the problem went away. With standard Brompton bars the hands rest inn a line with the clamp so there isn't the the downward torque the Milano bar has.


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## snazpizaz (3 Jan 2020)

Hi cheers folks:

@b-naut
1. your mentions:
_"If you want to create a mod like that yourself: I think in the picture archives of the bromptontalk mailing list that just moved over to groups.io is a picture story of someone who did it himself "
"way less frightening than the seatpost solution but unfortunately not cheap either" - _in 'neutral' summary - presuming it meant a cut-down seatpost solution.
2. I've had some feedback questioning if the Andros is that reliable, with reference to it's composite metals and a lack of user history, where as you seem a fan. 
3. On more vs less bolts / clamps: I disagree in that i tend to think the less clamps/ bolts _along the length of a stem,_ that need constant checking and tightening the better for reducing experience of failure but i agree QR at the clamp needs to be robust.

@12boy
1. I changed over to the Toulouse following (your ??) advice about the initial ones i choose (velo porteur) not being workable on a brompton due to the small width, which i totally understood. I went for a similar brommie width which ended up being the Toulouse at 560mm - which is 10mm more than H type handle. You mention the milano and soma, , the latter which i think is :
https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/3-speed-moustache-bar
2. If i go the stem riser route, my Toulouse is sitting on the following:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000223670625.html
at brommie stem and then:
https://www.ternbicycles.com/gear/472/andros-stem
to make up the height of the h type handlebar - (m handlebar height 155mm)
2a) You seem to be saying you inserted the Soma directly into the brommie stem clamp where as i propose a double riser set up with a double width clamp in the form of the two Andros stem arms centrally positioned at higher height, to produce approx 34mm of clamp width.
2b) I will have rejected the soma because it's 60mm drop means it sticks out 6cm more when folded where as all the other bars have negligible extension when folded. I note it's smaller width, being 505mm, some 450mm shorter than H type - but you found success with steering when directly inserted into the brommie clamp, i guess it's because the flared grip angle of the Toulouse/Milano isn't present, being at 90 degrees.
If i replicate your reported loose clamp issue with the Toulouse, the replacement i favour is the nitto choc over the soma because of the drop issue:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-choco-norm-bar-alu-ht-54cm-x-25-4-100mm-sleeve-tandem-162491
3. I will differ to you on up-right riding prefs. I prefer the higher dutch-bike height over the English /Oxford low handlebar placement. Though that said, if i experiment with risers, i may indeed find just one of the double risers an acceptable compromise. However, i think i would find any of the vintage bars directly inserted into the brommie stem too low because it's more an S type riding height than an h type riding height.
I wouldn't want to be leaning onto vintage bars in an s type riding position as that puts too much body weight onto the bars which may be the reason you experienced a loose clamp issue. Also it defeats the point of having swept back grips which compliment upright riding.

cheers
s


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## 12boy (3 Jan 2020)

Since stout headwinds are an issue here, an upright seating posture is too much work for me. The problem I found with the VO Porteur bar wasn't slippage but the bars were too narrow and seemed to increase twitchiness, especially going downhill fast, to scary levels. I have an Aber Halo but have never found a use for it. I have 4 bikes set up with ones' hands behind and below the place the stem holds the bar. For me, anyway, the rearward hand placement actually helps with an erect position as there is less leaning forward to grasp the bar. The Milano is currently on a Xootr Swift, a 20 inch folder not mentioned much on this forum, but the 45 degree angle of the sweepback is the most comfortable of my bars. Good luck with your efforts to find what works best for you.


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## snazpizaz (3 Jan 2020)

@12boy - oh cheers i was presuming you were riding a brommie and now i think you're saying none of the 4 bikes you use are in fact a brommie:
https://www.brompton.com/bikes/2020...qN2o7o1ElGXTZ2hu5X-G_NSgXpe4GbUBoC5NwQAvD_BwE
The fold on the brommie is very precise and there are 3 riding positions: 
https://www.bikefolded.com/brompton-s-m-p-h-type-handlebar-differences/
I'm still inclined to think the Porteur is too small to handle steering on a brommie where the wheels are only 16"

I'm riding in London / South East UK region so headwinds aren't an issue here.
s


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## berlinonaut (3 Jan 2020)

snazpizaz said:


> @b-naut
> 1. your mentions:
> _"If you want to create a mod like that yourself: I think in the picture archives of the bromptontalk mailing list that just moved over to groups.io is a picture story of someone who did it himself "
> "way less frightening than the seatpost solution but unfortunately not cheap either" - _in 'neutral' summary - presuming it meant a cut-down seatpost solution.


Where did I mention a cut down seat post? You seem to be interpreting rather than reading...



snazpizaz said:


> 2. I've had some feedback questioning if the Andros is that reliable, with reference to it's composite metals and a lack of user history, where as you seem a fan.


Again I'd prefer you would stick to what I wrote rather than to interpret and claim things I never said. I'm not "a fan" of the Andros, it is just the commonly available riser with the highest rise, the double clamping gives it an extra layer of safety in comparison to a single clamp and it seems to work flawlessly on the Tern bikes where it comes from. Still the design is possibly not intended to be opened and closed with every fold, several times a day. I own a V1 Andros and while it is ugly and heavy it has been working well until now. I do not think this makes me a fan and neither a hater of the Andros - I just look onto it from a technical perspective. But with that same perspective I would never ever come to the idea to stick two risers onto each other (at least not since I've grown older than 15 ), so possibly we do not share the same perspective...



snazpizaz said:


> 3. On more vs less bolts / clamps: I disagree in that i tend to think the less clamps/ bolts _along the length of a stem,_ that need constant checking and tightening the better for reducing experience of failure but i agree QR at the clamp needs to be robust.


Which is possibly another highlight on that different perspective. I consider a technical system in a critical position with a second layer of defense to be better and safer as it is to a degree tolerant to failure. For the same reason that airplanes have built in redundancy on their critical systems. I also do not think a QR needs or should need constant checking and re-tightening - in that case something is wrong with the QR or it's usage.


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## snazpizaz (3 Jan 2020)

Cheers
@b-onaut
1. So what was '_frightening' _about the seatpost solution then ? Always the poss of not understanding what someone writes.
3. We'll have to agree to disagree on the bolts/risers and your stated riser-use age-bias which i didn't understand but wont try and interpret 

cheers
s


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## 12boy (4 Jan 2020)

I do have a Brompton as part of my fleet and rode it for a while today. You can hopefully get a good peak at the Soma moustache bar.


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## snazpizaz (9 Jan 2020)

@12boy - hey that looks ! - _how does that look folded _i wonder as it looks like its bolted on rather than QR ?
I see you've got the soma in 'upside-down' position. I've seen it in both. I guess that gives a good low-ride position. As mentioned before - i'm opting for the riser to raise the bar to h type height.
Your set up reminds me a bit of this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90727905@N02/with/8414538812/

s


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## 12boy (9 Jan 2020)

It folds up ok if the QR is released and the bar rotated up. Because my hands are behind the handle post clamp I am in the same position as I would be with the standard S bar in terms of leaning forward, and if I put my mitts just behind the brake I am in the same position as leaning forward on bar ends. If I used reverse brake levers I don't think rotating the bar would be needed, but then I wouldn't have the little quick release doodad (the technical term) on the old Dia Comp levers. I like them because when released they allow me to pull an inflated wheel without undoing the brake cable. It's always been a pet peeve for me that the Brompton sidewalls don't have a release like almost all modern sidepulls. I 'll try to send a folded photo later today.


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## 12boy (9 Jan 2020)

Here are some photos...note the sticker on the frame on the non drive side


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## 12boy (9 Jan 2020)

Sorry about the picture of the aged pooch in with those.


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## snazpizaz (10 Jan 2020)

@12boy

thanks - useful - oh btw - we like aging pooches 

That set up is very much what i've been considering as a budget solution - though as stated with a Toulouse bar on an andros stem. The fold looks snug there, despite the 60mm drop on the Soma.
A couple of questions:
1. What size QR are you using on the brommie handlebar stem handlebar clamp in those photos ? I understand that the nut/bolt sizing on that part of the brommie is 6 which is quite rare and so there are mixed views about which sizing QR to use as a replacement for that bolt. Most say a 7 but others suggest miss-matching the sizing will eventually degrade the threadings. Can you feedback on your experience ?
2. When you added the soma to the s type did you have to replace the brake/gear cables which were already onboard or were they already long enough to accommodate the turning down of the handlebar when folded - which seems to me to require a little slack ?

cheers 

s


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## 12boy (10 Jan 2020)

I used a standard seat post type QR since it would tighten enough. One reason I went to a QR is I lost the original bolt which I remember as being an odd size. The QR bolt is smaller and does not affect the threads as it uses its own threads as opposed to the handle post threads. Would be nice if the stock unit had a removable face plate like threadless headsets do.


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## snazpizaz (10 Jan 2020)

@12boy Is that a standard brompton seat post QR - you mean ?
what about the cable lengths - see above

cheers s


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## 12boy (10 Jan 2020)

My cables were set up for an S bar and they are fine. No, I meant a QR for mountain bikes and hybrids as a lot of road bikes have a bolt set up integral to the seat post. To tell the truth my cables are probably bastardized beyond redemption as I buy 10-20 feet from the LBS and cut to length as needed. For example my front brake cable isn't split with the gatherer device but goes straight down in front of the handle post to a V noodle used to smooth out the cable arc. I don't think I mentioned on this post but I found Jagwire elite brake cable housing works best as it doesn't kink up as much, since has both spiral housing and non-compression housing. The rear brake path is not very straight and this cable housing works best for me.


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## snazpizaz (11 Jan 2020)

@12boy - cheers
so is the QR seat clamp you use is something generic like :
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bicycle-Seatpost-Clamp-Release-Mountain/dp/B075SXTJV3
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Quick-Release-Bolt-in-Bicycle-Seatpost-Clamps/177823/bn_7023082541

thanks for cable tip -
cheers
s


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## 12boy (11 Jan 2020)

Those look fine. Mine are Al, but the steel would obviously be heavier and stouter. I would like to see a pic of your finished product with the Andros or whatever you wind up with. BTW, I have mine so tight it's hard to open. If it wears out I'll just get another.


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## snazpizaz (12 Jan 2020)

@12boy - cheers
will do - i'm still going to look at the telescopic option - but when i pull it all together i will create a post and message you - may be by spring (?) i'll get it together as i may need to install new cables and that means joining a local workshop and learning how to do that.

cheers folks
s


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## snazpizaz (12 Jan 2020)

@berlinonaut
hi - i don't know if you are still around - just catching up with all the info ....cheers

1. I've managed to join the bromptontalk and looking thro their posts.
I found a useful post on limits of upright mods on a brommie due to 'small rear-train' issues causing instability by increasing the chance of backward tilt which has been a useful point i bring to this discussion in case others are thinking of the same mod as myself:
https://groups.io/g/BromptonTalk/topic/48482712#86641

2. I'm not sure i've found the DIY picture-story you mentioned but i found this:
https://groups.io/g/BromptonTalk/topic/48390184#25890
which describes method for telescopic stem building if that's the one.

3. If i did understand your recs for:
https://byschulz.com/produkt-kategorie/speedlifter/
and
https://www.fun-wheels.de/lenkervor...hrrad-zubehoer/lenker-u-vorbauten/a-55300335/
you rec'd these because of the presence of a height gauge and a QR .... with a lock mechanism (?)
Cheers - i'll take these to whoever i approach if i choose to tackle a telescopic build as not clear how these would fit onto a brommie stem myself.

cheers s

cheers again s


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## berlinonaut (12 Jan 2020)

snazpizaz said:


> 1. I've managed to join the bromptontalk and looking thro their posts.
> 2. I'm not sure i've found the DIY picture-story you mentioned but i found this:
> https://groups.io/g/BromptonTalk/topic/48390184#25890



Here you go: https://groups.io/g/BromptonTalk/album?id=160110


snazpizaz said:


> 3. If i did understand your recs for:
> https://byschulz.com/produkt-kategorie/speedlifter/
> and
> https://www.fun-wheels.de/lenkervor...hrrad-zubehoer/lenker-u-vorbauten/a-55300335/
> you rec'd these because of the presence of a height gauge and a QR .... with a lock mechanism (?)


At least the by-schulz one is a quality item. I've never mounted one of those on a Brompton, never seen one mounted to a Brompton and do not know of anyone who did this. It could however be an interesting solution, not the easiest or cheapest one but one that offers a lot of options while avoiding some typical issues.


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## snazpizaz (13 Jan 2020)

@berlinonaut cheers - helpful ! 

If you've got time:......
1. How do you rate the photo-diy - just out of interest ?
Also:
1. In theory, do you think i could replace the listed Batavus seat post and incorporate the by-schulz into the instructions as a replacement component part ?
2. I don't get how the stem clamp is held in place on either this or the dutch model. Do you know how these are retained in position ?
3. If i understand it correctly there's quite a bit of work going into creating a handlebar clamp head. Could i not attach an ahead instead and then a suitable riser ?
4. I see they glue two rings to centre the handlebar within the handlebar clamp but it seems like this method will still have the problem of needing to centre stem in relation to front wheel everytime used - is that correct assumption ?

2. Where you say the by-schulz offers a lot of options and avoids some typical issues:

Options and issues already mentioned:
Positives:
Presence of a height gauge
Ability to incorporate ahead / riser / suitable handlebar clamping
Negatives:
Raised height limited in relation to length of straight section of Brompton stem
Potential failure of a stem QR with no locking
Potential failure of a handlebar clamp QR with frequent use
Need to correct the front-facing / front wheel alignment upon each use.

Do you see the by-schulz negating any of the negatives above ? Or enable any options not listed ?


cheers - appreciated. s


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