# Tyre comfort - Schwalbe Marathon vs Marathon Plus



## greyhound_dog_1 (10 May 2012)

I ride an uprightish hybrid bike (Cannondale Quick CX-3). It came with 700x38c Conti Double Fighter II tyres, which I rode at 60-70 psi and found very comfortable, but I got a puncture once a week on my commute.

So I bought Marathon plus, and have had no punctures in 6 months/1000 miles. However, I find they ride so harsh, I cringe at the sight of even the slightest bit of damaged road surface as it is like having my teeth rattled and potholes can impact so hard that my chain is often dislodged as well as my gonads. I am running them also at 60-70 psi. Reducing the pressure does help, but at 50 psi (the minimum rated), they are still not exactly comfortable and there is a noticible increase in rolling resistance.

I am considering trying the standard Marathon's instead, in the hope these are more comfortable and still sufficiently puncture proof for my route. But searching posts has suggested that the M+ offers only a 'slightly harsher ride', for a lot of extra protection. If so then maybe the difference will be not so much, and I should get a sprung saddle or something instead...but bike was definitely fine on the original tyres.


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## srw (10 May 2012)

Odd though it may sound, have you tried running them at the maximum rating? A harder tyre should ride over the road rather than dig into it. I find that the second sign of a soft tyre is a nasty ride. The first sign is extra resistance.

And if your chain is shipping the gears need to be fixed.


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## greyhound_dog_1 (11 May 2012)

I have tried max rated of 80 psi, but then it is so bad that I get lower back pain every time I ride, which I didn't get using the stock Continental tyres at their max of 70 psi. Hence I dropped M+ to 60-70 psi. Also the chain is aligned perfectly, it is just that if I hit a pothole hard enough, the chain tensioner can't 'keep up' and the chain jumps down a cog, and then jumps back again. That's how hard the ride is. It was fine though on the original, compliant, not very puncture resistant tyres.

So was just curious if others find the standard Marathon (or indeed any other tyre recommendation) to be better than the M+, comfort wise, but still being puncture resistant. I have 45mm SKS mudguards so can't go wider than a 38c, so Big Apples are not possible (unless I replace the mudguards I guess...also rims are 17mm width). M+ sidewalls are quite rigid, which I guess gives then snakebite protection but equally a harsh ride...?


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## Rickshaw Phil (11 May 2012)

I can't comment on the M+ as I've never tried them, but for what it's worth I am running standard Marathons (700x35) on my main bike and have found them fine for comfort. They also roll and grip better than the standard (Duro branded) tyres they replaced.

I have done well over 2000 miles on them now with no issues (rushes off to touch wood ) and from the looks of the rear tyre I may get almost the same again before it is worn out. The front shows practically no wear yet.


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## Cletus Van Damme (11 May 2012)

I have the standard marathon's 700 x 28 and they seem ok for comfort, but I have had quite a few punctures with them which makes me think that I should of maybe went for +'s instead.


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## betty swollocks (12 May 2012)

Running any tyres at lower psi will assist with comfort, but the cons are greater rolling resistance and increased susceptibility to punctures.
I run Marathon plusses very hard on my Reynolds 853 bike and do not find it uncomfortable.
I don't think different tyres will help.
I think the harsh ride is more down to the frame materials and your own riding style.
On bumps and potholes, get off the saddle, stand on the pedals and let the bike pivot beneath you.
You might also consider getting carbon handlebars and/or seatpost, as these do soak up road vibration and therefore give a smoother ride.


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## Recycler (12 May 2012)

If your chain is routinely slipping then there is something wrong with either the chain or the gears. I doubt that tyres alone would cause that problem.


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## dellzeqq (12 May 2012)

I think srw is exactly right. Run the M+ at 100psi. The bike won't wallow quite so much and won't dive in to holes.

And recycler is right to. The chain is wrong - either worn or too long


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## greyhound_dog_1 (28 May 2012)

Regarding increasing the pressure for comfort; paradoxically I have indeed found that this has helped. But only now we are in hot weather. I am running at high pressure (75 psi, max rated is 80 psi) and the tyre is now reasonably comfortable with less 'road buzz'. Whereas earlier in the year in the cold weather it was much harsher so I had to drop the pressure. Maybe there is a temperature factor with the tyre sidewall becoming less flexible in cold conditions? I still might try out one of these Marathon Supreme's which have thin sidewalls but some puncture protection, see if it is better for me. It's not like I've pulled any glass or thorns out of my M+ at all in the last year so maybe they are overkill (tempting fate perhaps...)


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## greyhound_dog_1 (18 Jun 2012)

I can confirm having changed tyre, that there is an effect from tire sidewall rigidity. Changed to Vittoria tyre with softer sidewalls but kevlar lined tread area, and the ride has improved. It is only a little bit, mind. Certainly the ride is related to the squidgyness of the sidewalls - the tyre has reinforced sidewalls makes it ride harder. The difference in harshness goes from 'barely tolerable' to 'fairly tolerable' but not a massive improvement. Suspension seatpost then. Most of the issue comes from the bike being of oversized aluminium tubing, with oversized seat post, a short wheelbase and short chainstay length, and upright riding. (Cannondale Quick CX3).


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Jun 2012)

bigger tyres = bigger comfort....simples....


http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=57


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## MrJamie (18 Jun 2012)

I use M+ on my hybrid and love the puncture protection but as someone described them on here they're like a cart wheel. 

They're okayish on bumpy trails and bad roads if under inflated, but pumped up hard they give me lower back pain too.

It's the upright position and aluminum frame I for me think. Its less bad if I pedal hard and keep my weight off the saddle. Mostly I learn just to lift out of the saddle for bumpy stuff and stick to decent roads.


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## lulubel (18 Jun 2012)

greyhound_dog_1 said:


> I can confirm having changed tyre, that there is an effect from tire sidewall rigidity. Changed to Vittoria tyre with softer sidewalls but kevlar lined tread area, and the ride has improved. It is only a little bit, mind.


 
Which Vittorias are you using? I've used Rubino Pros practically since I bought my first road bike. I was using it for commuting, so wanted more protection than the stock tyres, and have used them ever since. I keep them pumped up hard to protect against pinch flats because some of the roads around here are pretty nasty, and you often can't see the bad bit until it's too late to slow down/avoid it.

Since I haven't used anything else, I haven't got a basis for comparison, but I could always feel if they'd lost a bit of pressure - down from 110 to 100psi - because the ride became noticeably softer.



greyhound_dog_1 said:


> Most of the issue comes from the bike being of oversized aluminium tubing, with oversized seat post, a short wheelbase and short chainstay length, and upright riding.


 
I think you're absolutely right in this. I've just replaced my alu road bike with a new bike built up around a steel cyclocross frame and forks, and the ride quality is sublime, even with the tyres at 110psi. I'll certainly never buy an alu frame again.


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## potsy (18 Jun 2012)

Just been out on my 35mm tyred hybrid, the ride was very comfortable


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## black'n'yellow (18 Jun 2012)

greyhound_dog_1 said:


> I ride an uprightish hybrid bike (Cannondale Quick CX-3). It came with 700x38c Conti Double Fighter II tyres, which I rode at 60-70 psi and found very comfortable, but I got a puncture once a week on my commute.
> 
> So I bought Marathon plus, and have had no punctures in 6 months/1000 miles. However, I find they ride so harsh, I cringe at the sight of even the slightest bit of damaged road surface as it is like having my teeth rattled and potholes can impact so hard that my chain is often dislodged as well as my gonads. I am running them also at 60-70 psi. Reducing the pressure does help, but at 50 psi (the minimum rated), they are still not exactly comfortable and there is a noticible increase in rolling resistance.
> 
> I am considering trying the standard Marathon's instead, in the hope these are more comfortable and still sufficiently puncture proof for my route. But searching posts has suggested that the M+ offers only a 'slightly harsher ride', for a lot of extra protection. If so then maybe the difference will be not so much, and I should get a sprung saddle or something instead...but bike was definitely fine on the original tyres.


 
all tyres are a compromise - the trade-off with increased puncture protection is usually ride quality. You could try something like Conti's gator hardshell...


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## smutchin (18 Jun 2012)

greyhound_dog_1 said:


> I can confirm having changed tyre, that there is an effect from tire sidewall rigidity.


 
I'd go along with this. I use 25C Durano Plus on my road bike, which I love because they grip well and haven't had a puncture in over 4,000km use. However, they are heavy and rigid, which is noticeable on rougher surfaces.

I have 32C Marathon Supreme on my fixed and they are brilliant. Lighter than the Durano Plus despite the increased size, fast-rolling, grippy and hardly any worse for puncture protection (only one puncture in a similar lifetime distance so far).

I find them very comfortable over rough surfaces, which I did think was just down to the difference between a 25C and a 32C tyre, but I've tried a different 25C tyre on the road bike for comparison (Vittoria Zaffiro, which the bike came with when I bought it) and they give a noticeably smoother ride than the Durano Plus.

I would very strongly recommend Marathon Supremes, by the way. Much faster than standard Marathons.

d.


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## MacB (18 Jun 2012)

I didn't notice much difference going from M+ to M but it is noticeable if you move to M Supreme. But I would reckon that bike and bike setup will be a part of this.

Looking at the geometry specs the chainstays are 450mm which isn't short. It's a hybrid with sus forks a fairly slack head angle and steepish seat angle. The sizes go from Small to Jumbo in 5 stages with the biggest effective top tube being 605mm. That's pretty short for an allround flat bar bike, it's more what I'd expect to see on a roadie hybrid with low front end and racey pretensions. As you already mention the ride position puts your bars up high and quite close. As you've also untuited you are sitting heavily with less weight on your arms, or having to keep pushing your weight back with them. I'd have a go at checking your ride position first, start with saddle height and setback then work forward to the bars. It may be that you already have your saddle in the correct position but the bars aren't low/far enough.

I started out commuting on a light fast hybrid and using M+ tyres, it wasn't the greatest of rides, quite jarring and the bike didn't really do well with me plus luggage, broken spokes etc. But it was a great ride reconfigured for weekend use and fun riding. My replacement commuter, a Surly Crosscheck, ran the same M+ tyres, was far heavier as a bike but soaked things up no problem.


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## greyhound_dog_1 (2 Nov 2012)

Thanks everyone for the input.
@lulubel, I went from 700x38c Marathon plus, to 700x35c Vittoria Randonneur (the standard one, not cross/trail).
Also seems you agree with the alu frame = crashy ride theory though others do not. According to Sheldon Brown's musings, it depends on the bike as frame material is less of an impact than frame geometry, but certainly 'oversize' tubes are stiffer and therefore harsher- clearly desirable for serious off-roading, but probably not so useful on our road-going steeds (a fashion thing, I suspect...).
@MacB
Yes it is short, by design, to be upright. I guess the CX-3 frame is very stiff with it's oversize tubing throughout, and coupled with that upright riding position, sends vibration and harshness straight up your spine. Sheldon also advocates the use of sprung/suspension seatposts for upright riding bikes, which I haven't done yet but may do, when I can afford a Cane Creek parallelogram type one...

I might try some of your tyre choices. I have heard good thinks about the Conti top contact as well.


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## scotbiker (2 Nov 2012)

I second the marathon supreme 32c run at 80psi. I still feel the bad bumps (carbon fork) but they really do smooth the road out for me.


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## Robwiz (2 Nov 2012)

I've used Marathon + 700 x 25s at 80 psi on my road bike. I wouldn't say they are especially uncomfortable. I tend to lift my weight off the saddle automatically though when I see a rough road surface ahead.


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