# Which fuel bottles fit bottle carriers?



## oxford_guy (22 Feb 2009)

Hi - am thinking of getting an Optimus Nova+ mutli (liquid) fuel stove to supplement my Trangia for longer trips (which on short trips I've mostly used with the gas adapter), partly because it can be adapted to fit the Trangia base. I was wondering, though, which fuel bottles would fit in a standard bottle carrier - does anyone know if the 0.6L Optimus fuel bottle (http://www.optimus.se/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=42)?would fit?

Alternatively, are there any liquid fuel bottles designed specifically for bike bottle cages? Thanks!


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## vernon (22 Feb 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> Hi - am thinking of getting an Optimus Nova+ mutli (liquid) fuel stove to supplement my Trangia for longer trips (which on short trips I've mostly used with the gas adapter), partly because it can be adapted to fit the Trangia base. I was wondering, though, which fuel bottles would fit in a standard bottle carrier - does anyone know if the 0.6L Optimus fuel bottle (http://www.optimus.se/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=42)?would fit?
> 
> Alternatively, are there any liquid fuel bottles designed specifically for bike bottle cages? Thanks!



I keep my fuel bottle(s) in my panniers.

Beware. Make sure that the fuel bottle can cope with meths. I have been using an aluminium fuel bottle and wondering what the sludge was in it....meths corrodes aluminium. I now use a Trangia polythene bottle.

Why do you think you need a second stove for longer trips?

My Trangia has served me well on two and three week tours.


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## numbnuts (22 Feb 2009)

http://www.bikebuddy.co.uk/


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## oxford_guy (22 Feb 2009)

vernon said:


> I keep my fuel bottle(s) in my panniers.
> 
> Beware. Make sure that the fuel bottle can cope with meths. I have been using an aluminium fuel bottle and wondering what the sludge was in it....meths corrodes aluminium. I now use a Trangia polythene bottle.
> 
> Why do you think you need a second stove for longer trips?



Carrying and disposing of lots of gas canisters does not appeal, also outside of Europe / North America, gas is not so easier to get hold of. On the other hand, gas is far less fiddly to use...


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## oxford_guy (22 Feb 2009)

vernon said:


> My Trangia has served me well on two and three week tours.



BTW how many gas canisters (I use the larger of two spin-on types) do you typically go through on a 2-week tour? Thanks


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## andym (22 Feb 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> BTW how many gas canisters (I use the larger of two spin-on types) do you typically go through on a 2-week tour? Thanks



It's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string question?'. If you're just using it to heat water for coffee/heating up soup etc then a small 100g cylinder would last for two weeks easily (though that's not what I'd recommend carrying). If you're doing a lot of simmering then it's going to have a shorter life.

It's worth thinking about a Markill adapter so you can use Camping Gaz cylinders. (Though carrying a meths stove as a second cooker/backup probably makes this a bit OTT).

It's worth thinking about a pot cozy - bring the (say) water and pasta to the boil and then put it into the cozy and leave to cook.

http://www.winwood-outdoor.co.uk/acatalog/Ultralight_Cooking.html


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## vernon (22 Feb 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> BTW how many gas canisters (I use the larger of two spin-on types) do you typically go through on a 2-week tour? Thanks



I don't use gas so can not answer. I have used the 270 sized cannisters in the past and I think one would last a week at least. 

Duration depends upon use.

I use a litre and a half of meths on a two week tour. I like several brew ups plus porridge on a morning before leaving the camp site plus the occasional brew uopduring the day plus evening meeal cooking and final brew before bed time. I have a one litre meths bottle now which, ehrn combined with a fully topped up burner would necessitate just one 500ml purchase on a LEJOG ride.

I used to use a 750ml and a 500ml pair of aluminium containers before discovering the corrosion problem with aluminium.


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## Tim Bennet. (22 Feb 2009)

Sigg meths bottles are coated on the inside. Just like the drinking bottles. I have had the same one with meths in it since 1977.

Just don't use the ones intended for paraffin or petrol.


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## Riding in Circles (22 Feb 2009)

I use Sigg meth bottles, my Trangia is my most essential luxury. I would not be without it when touring, I even have the kettle for a real cup of tea.


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## vernon (22 Feb 2009)

Tim Bennet. said:


> Sigg meths bottles are coated on the inside. Just like the drinking bottles. I have had the same one with meths in it since 1977.
> 
> Just don't use the ones intended for paraffin or petrol.



I was in ignorance of this when I had a couple of bottles given to me. Having said that the bottles are still intact four years later but I'm uncertain about the degree of internal corrosion.


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## tapan (22 Feb 2009)

I travelled for ages using a small camping gaz stove







--one of the piercing type, The idea was to carry 1 spare cyclinder and then but a new one when the empty one was replaced. But because of the problems of going through areas where the cyclinders were not available I found myself carry at least 2 spare! i would always knock over the pot at least once on a tour!

So I changed to the Trangia for my tour in 2006 from Nemours to Narbonne, actually it was an inexpensive LIDL copy ( bought a genuine Trangia burner to compare but it behaves the same).

On long tours, cooking a full meal in the evening from fresh I have used a total of about 1 1/2 litres of "alcool a brulée" on each trip and travelled witht he knowledge that i can buy "meths" everywhere.

On an evening , once set up, I would do my veg prep and get all into the pot and get it up to the boil. Then the simple readjust of the flame to a simmer and off to the showers and evening wander. It was handy having 2 burners when 1 wasn't quite enough but most times one filling was enough to cook my main meal





t might be less useful if there are 2 of you travelling together but as a solo tourist I shall not change from the spirit heated Trangia style stove!

I had "moules provencal" cooked from fresh on my 71st birthday in Ambois last year!


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## oxford_guy (23 Feb 2009)

andym said:


> It's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string question?'. If you're just using it to heat water for coffee/heating up soup etc then a small 100g cylinder would last for two weeks easily (though that's not what I'd recommend carrying). If you're doing a lot of simmering then it's going to have a shorter life.
> 
> It's worth thinking about a Markill adapter so you can use Camping Gaz cylinders.



There seems to be two adapters available - a small one for Camping Gaz spin-on cylinders (http://www.actionoutdoors.co.uk/sho....html?osCsid=cded01912aa8aefa2a56f36bd0f09820 ) and a larger one for the cylinders you pierce (http://www.actionoutdoors.co.uk/shop/markill-puncturestyle-cartridge-adaptor-p-881.html ) - the latter looks quite bulky, but I think in places like France, the pierce-able canisters are more common. Am not entirely sure whether the I would need both adaptors or not...



andym said:


> (Though carrying a meths stove as a second cooker/backup probably makes this a bit OTT).
> 
> It's worth thinking about a pot cozy - bring the (say) water and pasta to the boil and then put it into the cozy and leave to cook.
> 
> http://www.winwood-outdoor.co.uk/acatalog/Ultralight_Cooking.html



Thanks, will look into this


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## Riding in Circles (23 Feb 2009)

tapan said:


> I had "moules provencal" cooked from fresh on my 71st birthday in Ambois last year!



71st birthday? Respect.


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## andym (23 Feb 2009)

oxford_guy said:


> There seems to be two adapters available - a small one for Camping Gaz spin-on cylinders (http://www.actionoutdoors.co.uk/sho....html?osCsid=cded01912aa8aefa2a56f36bd0f09820 ) and a larger one for the cylinders you pierce (http://www.actionoutdoors.co.uk/shop/markill-puncturestyle-cartridge-adaptor-p-881.html ) - the latter looks quite bulky, but I think in places like France, the pierce-able canisters are more common. Am not entirely sure whether the I would need both adaptors or not...



I just bought the one for screw-on cartridges - figuring that if I found a Camping Gaz seller they would probably stock both types. But if you're carrying an alcohol stove then you've got belt, braces and (hypothetical third way of keeping trousers up).


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## BigonaBianchi (23 Feb 2009)

..I just use a normal water bottle..I drew a skull and crossbones and a message on it. "drink me , die happy"


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## Redmountduo (23 Feb 2009)

I have always used Sigg bottles for fuel and they fit perfectly.
I am sad in the fact that i just love the look of these instead of the more common plastic ones. :-(


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## Blue Hills (17 Oct 2011)

I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.


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## willem (17 Oct 2011)

That seems absolutely bonkers. I think underneath the downtube is ideal. It keeps the smelly nasty fuel outside your pannier. Also the bottle location underneath the downtube is the least suitable for carrying water. You cannot get at it while riding, and it gets dirty with potentially unhealthy stuff like animal dung.
Willem


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## MontyVeda (17 Oct 2011)

pound shop... they often have metal Sigg type bottles, for a pound... and bottle cages too, also for a pound.


Edit... having just read the thread... they may not be suitable due to the potential corrosion issue... but it's not leaking yet.


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## Little yellow Brompton (17 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.



He would probably have a fit if he saw a late freind's touring bike, with a downtube that had a tap and filler to carry paraffin for the Primus stove.


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## Blue Hills (18 Oct 2011)

Yes I thought it odd - the guy in the shop and his assistant both laughed in a theatrical sort of shock horror fashion at any thought of putting the bottle there. Thanks for clarifying chaps. Must say, that this shop also went down in my estimation after they gave me some dodgy advice on the relative merits of a Trangia and an MSR Whisperlite.

BTW, who stocks the BikeBuddy in the UK?


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> Yes I thought it odd - the guy in the shop and his assistant both laughed in a theatrical sort of shock horror fashion at any thought of putting the bottle there. Thanks for clarifying chaps. Must say, that this shop also went down in my estimation after they gave me some dodgy advice on the relative merits of a Trangia and an MSR Whisperlite.
> 
> BTW, who stocks the BikeBuddy in the UK?



I've got both and got time for a laugh.... so what did they say?


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## hubbike (18 Oct 2011)

vernon said:


> I keep my fuel bottle(s) in my panniers.
> 
> Beware. Make sure that the fuel bottle can cope with meths. I have been using an aluminium fuel bottle and wondering what the sludge was in it....meths corrodes aluminium. I now use a Trangia polythene bottle.
> 
> ...



Mine's served me well on a 13 month tour in south america. Alcohol can be kept in any plastic bottle (either the one you bought it in or an old coke bottle) and is available cheaply the world over (except UK perhaps!!) in hardware shops, camping shops or in pharmacies (80% alcohol is used worldwide for medical purposes).

Trangia owners are renowned for boring their friends with how good they are, so instead I'll tell you why I think multi-fuel stoves are so terrible.


IMHO pressurised multi-fuel stoves are horrid things. They spit out petrol, make a horrible noise, get clogged up, break, have too many moving parts, have parts that wear out, require tinkering, are hard to use, smell, burn your food and are expensive. 

Do yourself a favour and stick with the trangia.


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## Blue Hills (18 Oct 2011)

Re the second stove thingy, I have a very small Gellert thingy which goes onto a screw on gas cartridge (it's a clone of the MSR Pocket Rocket) which I need for my Italian espresso pot - that can't be used on the Trangia. Despite having to carry the screw-on gas cartridge, it also seemed a good idea for maybe finishing off a Trangia meal if the burner ran out (I gather that you can't refill it until it's cool though I suppose you could get a second burner) and for the odd meal where a second "ring" would be handy.

After some thought (and a single usage - so far only used the new Trangia in my back garden) I agree with hubbike on the relative merits of the Trangia and multifuel stoves.

Petrol is nasty stuff and getting it surely a fag. And after some thought I decided that the fact that you can buy an "annual maintenance kit" and an "expedition maintenance kit" or whateever for the the Whisperlite is ominous to say the least. What sort of maintenance does the Trangia need? None that I can see.

As for the shop's advice I referred to above - maybe I'd better not mention them by name, but here's the story.

I wandered in pretty much having decided after masses of research that I needed a Trangia for cycletouring and told them that I liked the idea of its simplicity and that ultimate speed of operation was not an issue for me. Despite this, I was warned off the Trangia very quickly and taken to see the Whisperlite. They almost convinced me, but not quite and I said I would return.

After a thought I decided that they had given me bad advice and to tell the truth had not listened to me/discussed the relative merits of the two stoves. 

Suspicious factors:

The Trangia (including the hard anodised) would have been half price along with a general half price sale they were having whereas the MSR was full price.

The guy blatantly contradicted himself (never a good tactic) - said that the Trangia was dangerous and presented visions of you disappearing in a fireball due to invisible creeping vapour fumes/invisible flames. But later, when I asked why it was so widely used by Duke of Edinburgh Award folk despite the awful slowness he was telling me about, he pretty much said that they liked it because it was so safe and could be used by a broad range of folks who weren't outdoor experts. er, so its ultra dangerous AND very safe? He also pushed me towards the Whisperlite with horror stories about the health hazards of aluminium cookware, even though, when I later thought about it, that link has I understand never been proven, has even been discredited maybe, and surely could have been addressed by the Duossal (steel coated) and hard anodised Trangias which they stock.

You may think me a muppet but I returmned later to buy the Trangia from them, though by then it was not at half price but at their normal price. Their normal price is still competitive with other outlets but by no means half. I did then discover that this price, which I had in good faith researched on the web, is their "web price" not available in the shop. I did, after the earlier run-around, insist on the web price though, which, through gritted teeth, they gave me.

Then I bought the fuel bottle - and then the horror tales of your and your bike going up in flames! - see above

I do get the feeling that the Whisperlite does have its real merits but that they are mainly for folks sat on mountain ledges at high altitude in sub zero temperatures who very understandaby would like a cup of tea real fast. Well that and poseur lower altitude campers who "demand performance from their stoves", who demand the best toilet paper that science can deliver etc etc ....


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

hubbike said:


> Mine's served me well on a 13 month tour in south america. Alcohol can be kept in any plastic bottle (either the one you bought it in or an old coke bottle) and is available cheaply the world over (except UK perhaps!!) in hardware shops, camping shops or in pharmacies (80% alcohol is used worldwide for medical purposes).
> 
> Trangia owners are renowned for boring their friends with how good they are, so instead I'll tell you why I think multi-fuel stoves are so terrible.
> 
> ...




I have a number of Trangias, a Gelert , and a number of home made spirit stoves. I also have an Optimus 123 climber, a Svea 123, a Coleman peak1, a Peak 1 lantern, a Coleman multifuel, a Coleman triple burner, a Coleman twin mantle lantern, a MSR whisperlite and assorted Primus stoves and Tilley lamps. Oh and a Kelly Kettle! So I think I speak from experience and have no real axe to grind.

Your heartflet rant (above) was a little bit shotgun like, as shown by the first example , multi fuel stoves don't all "spit out petrol" as by their definition they don't all use petrol, but even the ones that do if they are spitting it out then they are not being used correctly .Tilley lamps have the same poor reputation for flaring when being lit , but only from people who don't light them properly. As for a "horrible noise" , this can be argued from two directions, the first is that those that do "roar" do admitedly make a noise and it can be loud. However it is a matter of perspective whether this noise is "horrible" I for one find the roar of the 123 comforting and noise that the MSR makes on full reheat awe inspiring. The Colemans are whisper stoves and there are various Optimus stoves that are also quiet , the Colemans make less noise than the sound of th bacon frying. 

As for clogging, in 30 years the Colemans have never clogged, the 123s have a built in uncloging needle, and the MSR has one that you use by simply shaking, in contrast the spirit stoves often clog and need to have their 70+ holes cleaned , but there is no tool supplied ( or available ) for doing so.

None of the above stoves has broken, but I will not comment upon the peak 1 lantern apart frm the fact that it;s the work of Stan!

The 123's have the same number of moving parts as the Trangia, 1 !

Apart from the triple burner I have never had any parts waer out on any of the stoves., with the expection of the Trangia ( kettle developed a hole from meths leak)

Tinkering? I'm not sure what you mean , but again some my like tinkering.

Burn your food? The 123s Colemans, MSR and the Primus's , once warmed will simmer far far better than a Trangia , and you can tunr the heat up an down and back up again, which is difficult with a trangia.

Expensive? When you compare running costs I think they even out. Especially when you add up the the extra costs of findign Meths, versus the often free petrol/diesel that you get from a motorist donating a Ltr when they fill up.


Horses for courses , but certainly not cut and dried.


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## benb (18 Oct 2011)

Just make sure you don't drink out of the wrong bottle.


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> Re the second stove thingy, I have a very small Gellert thingy which goes onto a screw on gas cartridge (it's a clone of the MSR Pocket Rocket) which I need for my Italian espresso pot - that can't be used on the Trangia. Despite having to carry the screw-on gas cartridge, it also seemed a good idea for maybe finishing off a Trangia meal if the burner ran out (I gather that you can't refill it until it's cool though I suppose you could get a second burner) and for the odd meal where a second "ring" would be handy.
> 
> After some thought (and a single usage - so far only used the new Trangia in my back garden) I agree with hubbike on the relative merits of the Trangia and multifuel stoves.
> 
> ...


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## hubbike (18 Oct 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> I have a number of Trangias, a Gelert , and a number of home made spirit stoves. I also have an Optimus 123 climber, a Svea 123, a Coleman peak1, a Peak 1 lantern, a Coleman multifuel, a Coleman triple burner, a Coleman twin mantle lantern, a MSR whisperlite and assorted Primus stoves and Tilley lamps. Oh and a Kelly Kettle! So I think I speak from experience and have no real axe to grind.
> 
> ...
> 
> Horses for courses , but certainly not cut and dried.



Well, LYB, you obviously like your stoves. Do you tour with a trailer?

The "IMHO" modifier clarifies that I'm expressing a personal opinion, hence I can dislike the noise and smell if I like. Multi fuel stoves come with repair kits and spares. (if they never broke, or needed parts replacing, why would they bother?)

For UK use I would suggest a canister gas stove is about as convenient as you could get.

This is all a bit off-topic now though...


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

hubbike said:


> Well, LYB, you obviously like your stoves. Do you tour with a trailer?
> 
> The "IMHO" modifier clarifies that I'm expressing a personal opinion, hence I can dislike the noise and smell if I like. Multi fuel stoves come with repair kits and spares. (if they never broke, or needed parts replacing, why would they bother?)
> 
> ...



You may say that I coudn't posibly comment! ;-)

Of course you can , I was only tryin to point out that there are two types of multi fuel stove "roarers" and" silent" as for smell I agree with you about Diesel or Parrafin, but Petrol evaporates fast and the smell goes, meths on the other hand, the smell disapears quickly but the taste on anything it touches is foul and forwever. 

As for spares, and repair kits ... I think it might be for the presumption that the multi fuel are going to be used in more remote areas?

Plus all multi fuels are not the same the 123 ( Ok it's petrol only) has no pump and only the needle as it's moving part. If you want real convienece forget the gas go for a kelly kettle or a wood burning pocket stove ( oops , forgot I got one of those as well)


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## hubbike (18 Oct 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> As for spares, and repair kits ... I think it might be for the presumption that the multi fuel are going to be used in more remote areas?



and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...

Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.

For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

hubbike said:


> and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...
> 
> Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.
> 
> For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

hubbike said:


> and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...
> 
> Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.
> 
> For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...




I'm not quite sure what you mean by "clogged up", those without a pre heating tube have only the jet to "clog" ( 123, Svea, MSR) and that's easy to cure. Those with a preheater ( ie Coleman) can clog up due to deposits on the indice , but only IME over a long time.

I totally agree with you that multi fuel is not the only game in town, but there are defiantly times when they get close to it, ie over X thousand feet(where you you need the calorific value of a liquid fuel ) , or when fuel will be varialble and uncertain, such as very remote areas for a long period. I think if you were in mongolia/africa it would be easier to run a MSR with it's choice of Petrol/Avgas/Parfian/Diesel/heating oil, cough mixture etc... that it would be finding Meths.


The big difference of course is output, Petrolo really does give so much bang per buck , especially pressurised than meths, even a Desert Rats sand fire has more power than a Trangia. 

Saying that, the Association of Lightweight Campers has held a stove lighting compettion at Easter every year for at least 60 years( first to boil a pint of water) and the Trangia has won quite often, especially if it's a windy day.


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## Blue Hills (18 Oct 2011)

I too am impressed by Little Yellow Brompton's world of stoves.

Can you tell me what "X" means in terms of thousands of feet? How many?

Since I'm a beginner with the Trangia, maybe I can ask a question or two - apologies if off topic.

I think the instructions say to fill it no more than 2/3. I'm a bit bad at judging these things sometimes, especially if in a hurry. Pity they didn't graduate it - might hep you judge the fuel. What would happen if you went over 2/3? How much of a problem?

What do folks do with the bit of fuel you tend to get left after you've finished cooking/given up as the heat output has gone so low - throw it away? pour it back in the bottle? Latter may be an issue as I seem to see bits of debris in it for some reason.

Or is the seal on the burner cap good enough to just leave it in the burner and put it in your pannier?


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> I too am impressed by Little Yellow Brompton's world of stoves.
> 
> Can you tell me what "X" means in terms of thousands of feet? How many?
> 
> ...



What values of X? I'm not sure to be honest, but not one that you would encounter in the UK.

filling? One of the first problems you will hit if you overfill is that it will be more difficult to light, don't forget you are burning the vapour not the liguid and some of the vapour is within the rim of the burner under the holes, by filling to the brim you reduce the surface area of liquid and hence the amount of vapour generated.

The next problem will be that due to the thermal expanssion of the liquid the burnder will overlflow, and of course it's burning so itwill overflow with burning meths, this will get all over te place and because the spillage will also be heating the burner ( from the outside) you will create a feedback loop where more heat means more expansion means more spillage, means more heat.... 

The third problem will be that your pans will soot up much faster than they normally do, more fuel but the same amount of air means a richer flame .



As for runner seal, that's what it is for to enable you to move from site to site with a fully loaded burner, but I would make sure you wrap it well in the poly bag it came in , before you out it back in thre kettle. It tastes foul for ever if you spill meths.

I would burn off all the meths before storing the Trangia though.


Now excuse me I think I will go and play with my whisperlite for a while! :-)


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## Blue Hills (18 Oct 2011)

Thanks for all of that littleyellow Brompton - great advice - I'd forgotten about the vapour thingy - makes total sense.

And for the reassurance about the seal on the burner.

I've heard so much stuff about the horror of the taste of meths inside the kettle that I thing I'll keep the burner, in its bag, in a front pannier.

As for lighting the thing (and this kind of makes less sense to me after your wise words about the fact that I'm lighting vapour/not liquid) I'm slightly puzzled by the fact that I once managed to light it with one of those metal flint things but after that have never managed it and have had to use a match. Could the adding of water (as recommended I gather) inhibit spark lighting? By sitting on the surface/not mixing with the meths too quickly? Forgive my ignorance - suppose it's just best to use a cheap ciggie lighter, or does anyone else manage to light the burner with a metal flint stick/scraper thingy?

Thanks chaps for all of your advice and patience.

In case anyone thinks otherwise, I'm very pleased with the Trangia - not likely to hit X thousand feet in my tours I think.


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## Little yellow Brompton (18 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> Thanks for all of that littleyellow Brompton - great advice - I'd forgotten about the vapour thingy - makes total sense.
> 
> And for the reassurance about the seal on the burner.
> 
> ...



ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I blame you lot for this, I went and playe with the whisperlite in the garage, then the 123's then went browsing and found this 
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/evernew-titanium-alcohol-stove.html

It's Ti so I want one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not hard core enough to even think about using a striker. I restrict strikers, fire pumps, wire wool, glasses, fire ploughs, bows , pottasium and all the other exotic methods to showing off events only, for all other occasions it's a lifeboat match everytime.

The water reduces sooting from over fuelling, but of course if you have enough wind you won't over fuel, so I woudn't add water everytime.


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## Domestique (19 Oct 2011)

I have always found just a few drops of water is enough to stop sooting. 
As for which bottle and carrier, I have a small frame, 48cm, and with a trangia 1lt bottle and a bike buddy on the set of boss's on the underneath of the down tube there was overlap. Works fine with the 0.5ltr bottle though. My partner has no trouble with the 1ltr bottle on a larger frame so between the two of us that 1.5ltrs which is good for about a week or so before we have to start looking for fresh supplies.
Btw one of the things I love with the trangia is the quietness first thing in the morning, none of that hissing gas milarky


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## andrew_s (19 Oct 2011)

Little yellow Brompton said:


> I would make sure you wrap it well in the poly bag it came in , before you out it back in thre kettle. It tastes foul for ever if you spill meths.



The reason for the poly bag isn't to stop your tea tasting foul, but to stop the burner from corroding holes in the kettle (dissimilar metals and electrochemical corrosion, and all that). 

It doesn't corrode quick enough during a trip, but if you put the Trangia way when you get home with the burner in the kettle with no poly bag, you could well be surprised by a leaky kettle on the first brew of your next trip.


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## Brains (19 Oct 2011)

> As for the shop's advice I referred to above - maybe I'd better not mention them by name, but here's the story.




*That is the most interesting bit of the story, so which shop was giving such appaling advice ?
Also given that I typically buy about 5 Trangia's a year (Scouts and DofE) who sells them cheap !*


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## Blue Hills (22 Oct 2011)

These people.

http://www.outdooraction.co.uk/

I don't know if the price I got the Trangia for in the end can be beaten easily - it seemed decent.


I like the shop generally, but do think it would be good to listen to the customers a tad more maybe


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## Crankarm (22 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.



Warning : Dead thread resurrection.

But given the content of your new post worth it.

Shop assisant = muppet.

Where did this muppet suggest carrying the fuel bottle? In a trailer with the appropriate hazardous chemical symbols  ? I think petrol in a confined space such as a bottle would not "catch fire" if in contact with a naked flame or spark, but explode! Any cyclists brave enough to smoke whilst cycling? Ok you could stop some where and some one chucks a cigarette end near or under your bike - BOOM!!! or chavs could chuck a cigarette end out their car window at you - BOOM! But then MSR/Primus fuel bottles are designed to carry fuel and therefore comply with strict safety criteria specific to carrying fuel which perhaps the muppet didn't realise. Perhaps he thought one could simply put fuel in a normal drinks bottle. That would be taking the petrol and like riding with a Molotof cocktail between your legs  .


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## Blue Hills (23 Oct 2011)

He suggested that I put the Trangia bottle in one of my panniers. I'm not really sure how that is safer as such.

I'm pretty sure it was clear that I was talking to him about Trangia fuel - ie: meths.

I didn't think meths was that dangerous as long as you are sensible - it doesn't seem to be the most aggressive/powerful stuff when cooking. And I'm not aware that it has ever been used as a weapon of war for instance. Mind you, I'm no scientist.


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## Crankarm (23 Oct 2011)

Blue Hills said:


> He suggested that I put the Trangia bottle in one of my panniers. I'm not really sure how that is safer as such.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was clear that I was talking to him about Trangia fuel - ie: meths.
> 
> I didn't think meths was that dangerous as long as you are sensible - it doesn't seem to be the most aggressive/powerful stuff when cooking. And I'm not aware that it has ever been used as a weapon of war for instance. Mind you, I'm no scientist.



Meths is fine unless you start drinking it. Fine in a bottle for fuel in a bottle rack. I would only consider placing it inside pannier if the weather was very hot and of course direct sunlight which might have been what the muppet shop assistant was thinking of. Sorry but I thought you were talking about petrol which is just a little more volatile. If putting a fuel bottle in your pannier try and find a suitable robust vapour proof bag. Alternatively buy the Trangia gas adaptor and use butane canisters. I did. Far better. Personally meths would be a last resort fuel for me as it takes an age to boil anything. A Trangia on gas heats a full pan of water awesomely quick, it is unreal. Gas burner adaptors are about £40 and well worth it IMHO. But then again it depends where you are going and for how long. HTH.


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