# Andy Schleck



## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

So, what do we think? Is he going to end up washed up and bitter, bemoaning what he could have been if he'd been allowed to continue doing what everyone else was? Or will he be ok once his doping brother comes back? Or will he just bugger off and laze about on a beach somewhere? (which he'd be as well doing if his current form is anything to go by) Or maybe he'll come up with a way of becoming good again?

It seems to me that he was only good due to taking doping products, and now that he has realised that he can't do that anymore then he has become really average - like Basso, Simoni, et al. Some riders e.g Cheating Bertie, can maybe still be able to ride without doping (or by amending what they use) and believing they can still do a good job on their natural(ish) talent but Andy Schleck does not strike me as someone who will be around for much longer...


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## e-rider (7 Mar 2013)

who knows


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## Strathlubnaig (7 Mar 2013)

Noodles, You seem to have a bit of a hard on for A Schleck for some reason, I am not sure I recall any real allegations or proof or evidence of him doping at any time, and with his long recovery from a fractured sacrum and what seems to be a mental attitude issue then perhaps his lack of racing activity could be understood. Maybe you could post some links to the doping ?


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

Nope, no particular "hard on" (whatever that means) just musings over a rider who seems to have gone from a contender to an also-ran. As for any allegations, I am sure you can use google...


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## StuAff (7 Mar 2013)

Well, if the story about him beating his dad up Ventoux comfortably at the age of 12 is true, he had natural talent to build on- whether building on that included dope, pass. The problem to me with the Frandy double act seems more a mental block- they seemed incapable in the 2011 Tour of making a move alone. Andy blew the best chance he was likely to get of a win because he kept looking for Frank. And now he's spent months moping around instead of getting on with anything....


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## Strathlubnaig (7 Mar 2013)

I am no fan of the Schlecks, but you stated "It seems to me that he was only good due to taking doping products" and I went and searched but my google is not as good as yours I guess. I was just curious, and after living in Scotland for a number of years I like to stick up for the underdog now.


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## Noodley (7 Mar 2013)

Not sure what living in Scotland has to do with anything, nor why you view Andy Schleck as the underdog.

Anyway, I am musing about things. Not looking for answers. No point in that.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2013)

I think he's waiting for Frank to come back from his ban then he'll kick ass again.
Strange lads, the Schlecks.

I like to stick up for the underdog, but I've never lived in Scotland.


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## redcard (8 Mar 2013)

I live in Scotland and I hate the Schlecks.


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## rich p (8 Mar 2013)

*Jörg Jaksche* _when asked to clarify his performance in the 2006 Tour de Suisse._ "I said it wasn’t a race, more of a club championships. He asked me to clarify what I meant. So I said ‘yes, it was a club championship. The winner of the race was Jan Ullrich, a client of Fuentes, second was Koldo Gil, a client of Fuentes, third was me, fourth was Vicioso, another Fuentes client, sixth was Fränk Schleck’. Everyone in the court, even the judge was laughing. It was ridiculous.”

Where Frank goes, there goeth Andy - IMHO.


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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> I live in Scotland and I hate the Schlecks.


I used to live in Scotland, and I hate the Rangers.


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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Nope, no particular "hard on" (whatever that means) just musings over a rider who seems to have gone from a contender to an also-ran. As for any allegations, I am sure you can use google...


I looked on Google too, and I have as much disdain for dopers as you, but there is nowt to pin on Andy apart from Frank and Johan. No direct accusation. Can you link some please?


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

No.


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## PpPete (8 Mar 2013)

Whether he did dope or didn't dope is irrelevant in a way..... the fact is that he seems incapable of producing the kind of form that he promised a couple of years ago. If he's earned enough from the sport, he might as well go and laze on a beach. I just can't see him coming back to challenge for podium or even top ten, in any future grand tours; so, whilst I'm passionately anti-doping, I just can't bring myself to care whether his current performances are due to something missing in his heid or something missing in his bloodstream.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 Mar 2013)

I'm sure I read somewhere that Schleck senior has said he thought both his sons should get out of pro cycling and live their own lives. I wonder whether this family affair might also be having an effect on A's motivation.


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## Crackle (8 Mar 2013)

rich p said:


> *Jörg Jaksche* _when asked to clarify his performance in the 2006 Tour de Suisse._ "I said it wasn’t a race, more of a club championships. He asked me to clarify what I meant. So I said ‘yes, it was a club championship. The winner of the race was Jan Ullrich, a client of Fuentes, second was Koldo Gil, a client of Fuentes, third was me, fourth was Vicioso, another Fuentes client, sixth was Fränk Schleck’. Everyone in the court, even the judge was laughing. It was ridiculous.”
> 
> Where Frank goes, there goeth Andy - IMHO.


 
I was just about to quote that.

I don't think he's got it mentally either, probably why he can't descend. At the moment he looks a spent force but who knows.


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## montage (8 Mar 2013)

I'm no fan, but I think he will be back.


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## uphillstruggler (8 Mar 2013)

*I don't think he's got it mentally either*

+1 for that, he doesnt seem aggressive or to dominate enough, you need alot of both to be at the top.

he'd still beat me up any hill you care to mention though, beach or no beach


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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> No.


Is that coz there aren't any or coz you CBA.


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## Hont (8 Mar 2013)

Perhaps he likes to party a bit too much to dedicate himself to becoming a contender again? He is, by all accounts, "popular with the ladies" and then there was the 5am Vuelta incident (amongst others I hear).

I'm not a believer in Andy Schleck. I don't believe that someone can get dropped in the Tour of Switzerland and a month later have gained enough form to finish second in the Tour. Always goes well after a rest day too.


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## Hont (8 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> really average - like Basso


 
I take your point, he's not on the same level post-suspension, but he still won the Giro which is a little better than _really average._


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## redcard (8 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> Is that coz there aren't any or coz you CBA.



I think it's just his opinion. He ain't got a thesis on the subject!

Anyway, he didn't say there were allegations all over the Internet... Just that you can try looking for some if you really wanted to.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> I looked on Google too, and I have as much disdain for dopers as you, but there is nowt to pin on Andy apart from Frank and Johan. No direct accusation. Can you link some please?


 
Oh come on, Frank doesn't take a leak without Andy doing the same. Their father has been the subject of specific targeted operations on at least two occasions. Whatever their considerable natural talents, if you really believe there isn't more powering the Schlecks than just their parents' homemade rosti, then I would suggest you are being more than a little naive.


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## Noodley (8 Mar 2013)

I have no idea if there are any at all. As I said, just my musings. And as I have said numerous times before I am just a middle aged bloke on a cycling forum passing the time of day, making things up as I see fit with no need to adhere to legal protocols which have no bearing on my opinions.


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## beastie (8 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Oh come on, Frank doesn't take a leak without Andy doing the same. Their father has been the subject of specific targeted operations on at least two occasions. Whatever their considerable natural talents, if you really believe there isn't more powering the Schlecks than just their parents' homemade rosti, then I would suggest you are being more than a little naive.



Not once did I state that I thought Andy was on bread and water. FWIW , I am definitely in the "he's proper dodgy" camp. I just wanted to know what Noodley was referring to in the all over google claim, when I hadn't seen it. I thought that was a fair question really.


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## yello (8 Mar 2013)

Noodley said:


> Anyway, I am musing about things. Not looking for answers. No point in that.


 
I agree. Answers are dull, discussion and opinion is WAAAAAY more interesting!

I cut Schlek some slack (Schlek slak, schlek slak - sounds like a newly landed flounder) because my mum likes him. Personally, I reckon he's a bit of a dork. He can't even change gear properly.


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## BJH (8 Mar 2013)

Schleck fails at least two of my tests for dopers

1. Linked closely to know doper, in his case he gets double points because it's his brother
2. Attitude to having been robbed of his moment of glory of the limelight in Paris as a TdF winner, he scores triple points because that didn't even merit a comment.

So I don't know for sure either, but for me he's dirty.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 Mar 2013)

User said:


> so by this logic....
> ...I also don't get the dislike of tomas voeckler, supposedly aloof, arrogant, etc etc sounds abit like wiggins to me...but wiggins is the king of cool, strange very strange..


 
The English and French have a long tradition of finding each other arrogant. We wouldn't be English or French if we didn't


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## Noodley (9 Mar 2013)

I'm not English, nor French


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## ColinJ (9 Mar 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> The English and French have a long tradition of finding each other arrogant. We wouldn't be English or French if we didn't


I find the English, the French (and occasionally the Scottish) half-arrogant, but I'm half-English and half-Scottish so that probably explains it!


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## raindog (9 Mar 2013)

User said:


> ....I also don't get the dislike of tomas voeckler, supposedly aloof, arrogant, etc etc sounds abit like wiggins to me...but wiggins is the king of cool, strange very strange..


Voeckler is disliked within the peloton not by the public.
Everyone I know loves him for his attacking style - personally I quite like him in interviews too, as he comes across as an interesting and modest person. Had a strange childhood - his father was lost at sea and never found, which affected his personality a lot.


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## Flossyrockstar (9 Mar 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I find the English, the French (and occasionally the Scottish) half-arrogant, but I'm half-English and half-Scottish so that probably explains it!


A semi detached sweaty!!!


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## montage (9 Mar 2013)

User said:


> I also don't get the dislike of tomas voeckler, supposedly aloof, arrogant, etc etc sounds abit like wiggins to me...but wiggins is the king of cool, strange very strange..


 
He's a nob.
He doesn't even attempt to fulfill his talent potential as a GC rider - something France could really do with.
He's a nob to other riders in break aways
He's a nob to watch
Bit of a nob to his team mates as well 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgsepZux4kw


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## yello (9 Mar 2013)

raindog said:


> Had a strange childhood - his father was lost at sea and never found, which affected his personality a lot.


 
I didn't know that. Tough break that. Obviously, I don't know how it's affected him but it doesn't change my view of him any in truth. I've no idea what motivates him, how he picks and chooses the moments to perform, but he can seem worthy of superlative one day and just plain ordinary the next. I get the feeling he's no real ambition to be elsewhere though. I think he is satisfied with the status he has - interpret that as you will!

His team mates apparently call him 'Hollywood' (though they'd probably pronounce it 'ollywood'!) because of his theatrics and general camera awareness. I'm aware of the general dislike of him within the peloton though.

I think he's a showman which is in equal measure refreshing and annoying. I can either love or hate his gurning, depending on the mood I'm in.


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## BJH (9 Mar 2013)

User said:


> so by this logic....
> 1. Linked closely to know doper... thats wiggins and evans knackered...
> 2. schleck stated unless you're on the podium in paris, then he hasn't really won the tour de france but accepted the uci's decision...
> 
> I'm not sure why people dislike the schlecks but if you watch any documentries on them, they come across a fairly likable lads especially andy....I also don't get the dislike of tomas voeckler, supposedly aloof, arrogant, etc etc sounds abit like wiggins to me...but wiggins is the king of cool, strange very strange..



So he feels he hasn't really won the TdF so thats why he doesn't comment?

If he was genuine he has been robbed of his moment of glory by a cheat yet doesn't feel the need to condemn him and call for lifetime bans. Past experience with others who had the same position is that they didn't shout because they knew they had acted no differently.

I would also suggest that link to known dopers is slightly different in his case when the person in question is his own brother who never seems to be very close to him at all other times, so your comparison back to Wiggins or Evans isn't really the same

Wiggins may be a knob for all I know, or he may be the king of cool but the last time I heard he doesn't have a drug cheat brother.


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

Daniel Friebe has just tweeted:
"Andy Schleck doesn't have a problem with his weight, and is supposed to be an incredible natural talent. He should be finishing races."

He has a point.


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## Flying_Monkey (11 Mar 2013)

And he's out of Tirreno-Adriatico.... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck-abandons-tirreno-adriatico


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## Hont (11 Mar 2013)

User said:


> I'm not sure why people dislike the schlecks but if you watch any documentries on them, they come across a fairly likable lads especially andy


 
Remember there's a difference between likeability and cheating. Armstrong should not be our benchmark for all dopers. I really liked Jan Ullrich, but there's not much dispute he was a doper. Andy Schleck does seem like a nice guy (as far as anyone can tell from TV and not withstanding the year-long bleating about 'chaingate') but that doesn't mean I have to believe he's clean.

As the Friebe quote points out, right now he doesn't seem to be able to finish anything. I wouldn't want to be needing the toilet if Andy was in there taking a dump.


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## Shadow (11 Mar 2013)

Andy who?!
(and who is this guy Frank?!)


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## BrumJim (11 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And he's out of Tirreno-Adriatico.... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck-abandons-tirreno-adriatico


 
Although not alone in abandoning the race. Sounds like the weather is pretty miserable out there.


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## jdtate101 (11 Mar 2013)

I knew a runner once who smashed his pelvis after he got hit by a car. It took him yrs to recover fully, so I'm sure Andy is still somewhat effected by it, but I think the majority of his problems stems from a full on headf**k / loss of confidence.............

..........or a lack of good drugs.


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## beastie (11 Mar 2013)

BrumJim said:


> Although not alone in abandoning the race. Sounds like the weather is pretty miserable out there.


Rule 5 for Andy is what he needs. I reckon this could be career over if he doesn't sort himself out. Doper or no doper what a lack of moral fortitude. Or as we say round my way"total fanny"


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## rich p (11 Mar 2013)

Andy S was riding like a dawg before he fractured his sacrum. He was also back on the bike in the autumn so he's had a fair bit of time to perform better than he is. RadioShack is not a happy place though, in his defence.


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## Strathlubnaig (11 Mar 2013)

Cavendish abandoned, does that make him a fanny too ?


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## dragon72 (11 Mar 2013)

Hear hear. I'm a bit bored of this Schleck-bashing which is getting personal, nasty and often groundless.


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

Didn't you know? It's open season on dope cheats... Sorry, *alleged* dope cheats. 

d.


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## Strathlubnaig (11 Mar 2013)

so far as I have seen, only the cc residents have made any allegations about AS, to date.


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## redcard (11 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Cavendish abandoned, does that make him a fanny too ?



Difference being Cav still wins races.


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## Crackle (11 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> so far as I have seen, only the cc residents have made any allegations about AS, to date.


Here, knock yourself out.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14646


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## Strathlubnaig (11 Mar 2013)

Crackle said:


> Here, knock yourself out.
> 
> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14646


Your evidence is a 4 year old thread from CN the Clinic ? Guess they must be right about Froome and the Skyborgs too then.


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## redcard (11 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Your evidence is a 4 year old thread from CN the Clinic ? Guess they must be right about Froome and the Skyborgs too then.



Uh, it's less than 2 years old.

If you think Froome is doping then you're free to start a thread about it.


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## Crackle (11 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Your evidence is a 4 year old thread from CN the Clinic ? Guess they must be right about Froome and the Skyborgs too then.


 
I'm not offering any evidence, I'm just responding to you saying that only posters on CC have made any allegations.


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## Noodley (11 Mar 2013)

I'm fairly sure I must have posted on yacf that I thought Andy Schleck was a doper, so more fuel to the fire


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

It's certainly evidence that allegations have been made about him.


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## Strathlubnaig (11 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Uh, it's less than 2 years old.
> 
> If you think Froome is doping then you're free to start a thread about it.


I have not said Froome was/is doping. Yes, 2 yrs old.


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## redcard (11 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I have not said Froome was/is doping. Yes, 2 yrs old.



I didn't say you said anything about Froome.


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## smutchin (11 Mar 2013)

Eh? Who did or didn't say that who did or didn't say what about whom?


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## rich p (11 Mar 2013)

the biter bit I think!!
I seem to recall another rider who never failed a test but was subject to many rumours.
Can anyone jog my memory with his nbame?


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## beastie (12 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Difference being Cav still wins races.


Nevermind winning, Andy has finished one race in over a year.


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## beastie (12 Mar 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Cavendish abandoned, does that make him a fanny too ?


Cav didn't abandon inside the first 50 km, before it had started raining, with sun on his back. Not a fanny. 
Taylor Phinney did 130 km solo after his gruppetto mates climbed off and left him to it. Not a fanny.


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## jdtate101 (12 Mar 2013)

I'm guessing Cav got hung up on the 27% was too far behind to make the time cut-off and decided he didn't need the extra pain and suffering. Smart call, as there's no point in doing that unless you need to. Taylor may have decided he needed more practice at steep climbs so carried on, or pride just wouldn't let him abandon. I'm sure sprinters and GC guys looks at these things very differently.


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## rich p (12 Mar 2013)

Phinney desperately wanted to finish as he had a good chance of winning today's TT. Alex Dowsett made the cut so it would be nice to se him do well today.


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## thom (12 Mar 2013)

Interesting comments from within the RSNT camp re Andy. They do think that he has to make something of a post accident psychological recovery related to being able to race at high speeds, which was probably why he was dropped in the T-A TTT.


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## beastie (12 Mar 2013)

thom said:


> Interesting comments from within the RSNT camp re Andy. They do think that he has to make something of a post accident psychological recovery related to being able to race at high speeds, which was probably why he was dropped in the T-A TTT.


 
Yup, apparently he was in tears on a descent day before yesterday. I now feel bad about calling him a total fanny in his own thread.(even though he is) He was a shoot descender before his crash, so he is really gonna struggle now. If he can't sort it he might as well quit I am afraid. It wasn't a fear of descending that made him get off yesterday though, it was a lack of MTFU, brought on by a serious lack of training.


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## thom (12 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> Yup, apparently he was in tears on a descent day before yesterday. I now feel bad about calling him a total fanny in his own thread.(even though he is) He was a s*** descender before his crash, so he is really gonna struggle now. If he can't sort it he might as well quit I am afraid. It wasn't a fear of descending that made him get off yesterday though, it was a lack of MTFU, brought on by a serious lack of training.


If he is genuinely afraid then I don't think you can criticise him too much but funnily enough bike racing is about going fast and descending is a core skill for GC riders so he might just have to accept he has no future in that regard. Which is probably quite hard to deal with but to be honest, like you I doubt that's the only issue for him.


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## rich p (12 Mar 2013)

As I said above somewhere, he was achieving underwhelming form before the accident. I sympathise with his lack of moral fibre but being unhealthily fearless is a prerequisite for a pro.


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## smutchin (12 Mar 2013)

Remember the Galibier stage in the 2011 TdF? He made a brilliant attack and looked in danger of taking the overall lead, probably could have taken a big enough lead to win the overall, but bottled it and allowed the chasers to close the gap, then rode like a complete and utter fanny in the time trial the following day and was caught on the road by Evans.

He never had the head for bike racing even before he had his accident, and as beastie says, he was always a rubbish descender. Total fanny. He makes it very hard to have any sympathy for him.


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## Crackle (12 Mar 2013)

His Palmares is still impressive, he clearly has the potential to race and race well but as Thom said, maybe he's not a GC contender anymore.


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## smutchin (12 Mar 2013)

I don't think a one-trick pony like Schleck can ever be regarded as a proper GC contender. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Bahamontes, R.Millar and Pantani, who were always strong enough going uphill to put themselves in contention but generally too weak in other disciplines to finish the job off. There's a backhanded compliment for you! 

Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders. 

To be fair, Schleck has achieved more than other supposed GC contenders like Rodriguez or Van Den Broeck.

d.


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## redcard (13 Mar 2013)




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## montage (13 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> I don't think a one-trick pony like Schleck can ever be regarded as a proper GC contender. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Bahamontes, R.Millar and Pantani, who were always strong enough going uphill to put themselves in contention but generally too weak in other disciplines to finish the job off. There's a backhanded compliment for you!
> 
> Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders.
> 
> ...


 
Wasn't he only 39 seconds behind Contador in 2010? (Interestingly,am I right in thinking that Contador has only ever lost one grand tour he has entered since 2006 - not a bad loss rate in 6 years, suspensions notwithstanding)


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## smutchin (14 Mar 2013)

I've just been reminding myself of what actually happened in 2010. Contador did indeed "win" by 39 seconds - exactly the same margin that by which he finished ahead of Schleck in the stage where he attacked after Schleck shipped his chain.

Schleck actually did OK (by his standards) in the final individual time trial, losing only 31 seconds over 42.5km to Contador (although Contador setting off after Schleck would have known what he needed to do to seal the win). Schleck regularly loses _minutes_ to his main rivals in time trials, which no genuine GC contender can afford to do.


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## yello (14 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> although Contador setting off after Schleck would have known what he needed to do to seal the win


 
I think that's an important factor. Maybe one that determined how Contador rode. Do enough but not more than necessary.


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## Hont (14 Mar 2013)

IIRC Contador struggled that day, constantly adjusting his position on the bike, and fell weeping into the arms of Vino (!) upon finishing. He then had a moan about the information coming from the car having been told that he was behind and losing the tour. 

Contador's victories in grand tours (with the exception of TdF 2009 and Giro 2011) have often been by the skin of his teeth. For all his (deserved) dodgy reputation he does not dominate in anything like the manner of Armstrong and Indurain.


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## The Couch (14 Mar 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders


Can't speak for Delgado (I don't have enough miles on the counter to have seen him riding) but I wouldn't put Sastre and Contador in the same list. I would actually put Sastre and Schleck in the same group, in my opinion they are both climbing specialists (who will both loose a lot of time in a TT).
But maybe, my problem is that I don't quite understand your definition of a GC contender. Since I would put Rodriguez and VDB also in the same group as Schleck. They (unfortunately) are a bit too weak in TT to be a (multiple-)TdF threat.
Personaly I would put Armstrong, Contador, Ullrich, Indurain, Wiggins, Evans in a same category (you could make this list sooo much longer of course), which is "all-rounders" (the difference in their results are just depending on exactly how strong their climbing and/or TT is compared to their respective contendors of that time).
I would put people like earlier-mentioned-Sastre, Schleck, Pantani, Rodriguez ... as climbing specialists. Which doesn't mean they can't win the grand tours, but they just have to be climb very strong in the full tour, have the balls to attack from far away and (sometimes) have the brain to decide to focus on the Giro or Vuelta instead of the Tour de France.
And I guess the other way around will never work: people like Cancellara, Boardman, Martin will always loose too much time in the mountains.


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## oldroadman (14 Mar 2013)

If you can't descend properly then life as a pro has little future. in order to win ( or just do the job well) there sometimes have to be risks taken, calculated, but risks just the same. The way to learn is, if possible, get on the wheel of a good descender and follow at 10-20 metres, using lines and braking points as markers. You soon learn, and if you are not a strong climber, it's how you get back into the fray to do your job for the team.
Sorry Mr S, it may be time to hang up the wheels, at least as a pro.


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## smutchin (14 Mar 2013)

The Couch said:


> Can't speak for Delgado (I don't have enough miles on the counter to have seen him riding) but I wouldn't put Sastre and Contador in the same list. I would actually put Sastre and Schleck in the same group, in my opinion they are both climbing specialists (who will both loose a lot of time in a TT).


 
Sastre was a poor TTer who turned himself into a good one - in fact, he dedicated himself to training very specifically and very hard to improving his performance in time trials, which is something you can never imagine Schleck doing. That level of dedication is perhaps the main factor that separates true GC contenders from the rest. Just look at Wiggins last year.



> But maybe, my problem is that I don't quite understand your definition of a GC contender. Since I would put Rodriguez and VDB also in the same group as Schleck. They (unfortunately) are a bit too weak in TT to be a (multiple-)TdF threat.


 
That's precisely why I mentioned Rodriguez and VDB - both are often talked of as GC contenders but neither have ever looked really likely to fulfil that promise. Yes, I would put them in the same bracket as Schleck for that reason. Rodriguez came very close in the Giro last year but was always going to lose time to Hesjedal in the final time trial. And again in Tirreno-Adriatico on Monday, he was part of the very select attack that won the stage in magnificent fashion but lost his podium place in the final time trial.




> Personaly I would put Armstrong, Contador, Ullrich, Indurain, Wiggins, Evans in a same category (you could make this list sooo much longer of course), which is "all-rounders" (the difference in their results are just depending on exactly how strong their climbing and/or TT is compared to their respective contendors of that time).


 
Of current riders, I would say there are very few genuine GC contenders - Contador, Froome, Nibali, Wiggins, Hesjedal.

Evans and Basso appear to be over the hill. Gesink and Mollema always flatter to deceive (but are still young enough that they may yet come good). Voeckler ought to be but won't apply himself. Chavanel certainly applies himself but just isn't quite good enough. And then you've got the young upstarts like Vangarderen and Talansky who are thrilling talents but maybe aren't quite there yet...

Anyone else I've forgotten?

[Edit: just remembered Tony Martin, who is the anti-Schleck - phenomenal talent in TTs but always loses time in the big climbs.]

[And Brajkovic - another nearly man.]



> I would put people like earlier-mentioned-Sastre, Schleck, Pantani, Rodriguez ... as climbing specialists. Which doesn't mean they can't win the grand tours, but they just have to be climb very strong in the full tour, have the balls to attack from far away and (sometimes) have the brain to decide to focus on the Giro or Vuelta instead of the Tour de France.


 
Yes, Pantani is another who was never really a genuine GC contender. These riders do win the occasional GT but rarely more than one.



> And I guess the other way around will never work: people like Cancellara, Boardman, Martin will always loose too much time in the mountains.


 
And why Peter Sagan is going to win lots and lots and lots of one-off bike races but _probably_ never a GT (though I see a lot of Sean Kelly in him and wonder if he might reinvent himself as a GC contender when he hits his 30s - which is still a long way off, let's not forget!)


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## smutchin (14 Mar 2013)

Hont said:


> IIRC Contador struggled that day, constantly adjusting his position on the bike, and fell weeping into the arms of Vino (!) upon finishing. He then had a moan about the information coming from the car having been told that he was behind and losing the tour.



That sounds vaguely familiar now you mention it. 



> Contador's victories in grand tours (with the exception of TdF 2009 and Giro 2011) have often been by the skin of his teeth. For all his (deserved) dodgy reputation he does not dominate in anything like the manner of Armstrong and Indurain.



His win in the Vuelta last year was as much due to his tactical genius as anything else. Something Froome showed himself to be short of in that race, and which Schleck has never had (in fact, Schleck is reputed to be a bit of a thicko generally). A great racing brain is another factor that sets the true contenders apart. Nibali isn't the very best in any single discipline but has a great racing brain.

d.


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## beastie (15 Mar 2013)

User said:


> velonews
> 
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...-says-he-ran-into-a-drunk-andy-schleck_277922


Bad form of the Mayor to gossip all over Twitter like that. I hope he never gets drunk.


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## Noodley (16 Mar 2013)

It sounds as if the politician's intention were not dishonourable,and that he regrets making it public - chapeau to him for admitting his error. Anyway, I think it's time for Andy to take a long, if not permanent, rest from the pro peloton for his own benefit - it sounds as if he needs to get his head sorted out, irrespective of why he is riding so badly. He needs to be honest with himself, if not others.


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## PpPete (20 Mar 2013)

And to add to his woes....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-radioshack-to-end-team-sponsorship
denied by management
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/becca-dismisses-radioshack-sponsorship-withdrawal-speculation
but check the last sentence:
[Becca] concluded by warning both Schleck and his whole team: “In the end only results count, that applies to every pro cyclist.”


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## raindog (20 Mar 2013)

To be honest, I was surprised when the Shack carried on this year.

Talking of which, when is The Hogg's "hearing" due?


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Mar 2013)

I'm feeling increasingly sorry for Andy Schleck. It's quite obvious he's suffering from some psychological problems. Given what happened to Marco Pantani and others who went downhill fast when they lost their form or retired, I think it might be a bit more compassionate if people eased up on the insults, even if you aren't a fan.


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## redcard (20 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm feeling increasingly sorry for Andy Schleck. It's quite obvious he's suffering from some psychological problems. Given what happened to Marco Pantani and others who went downhill fast when they lost their form or retired, I think it might be a bit more compassionate if people eased up on the insults, even if you aren't a fan.



Let's ban negative opinions. Apart from MPs and paedos - they're still fair game!


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Let's ban negative opinions. Apart from MPs and paedos - they're still fair game!


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## beastie (21 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> Let's ban negative opinions. Apart from MPs and paedos - they're still fair game!


Yebbut what about bankers? 

And of course Piers Morgan.


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## redcard (21 Mar 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


>



I thought criticising superstar athletes made one a bad person? 

It was Sagan, then it was Andy. Next you'll be organising a cookie party for Rio Ferdinand


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## redcard (21 Mar 2013)

beastie said:


> Yebbut what about bankers?
> 
> And of course Piers Morgan.



No no, I like Piers. Please don't hurt his feelings!


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Mar 2013)

redcard said:


> I thought criticising superstar athletes made one a bad person?
> 
> It was Sagan, then it was Andy. Next you'll be organising a cookie party for Rio Ferdinand


 
It was just that your post didn't really make any sense. And I am still not sure what you are talking about.


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## Monsieur Remings (23 Mar 2013)

I was rather put off by his arrogance in 2011 when he and Frank were convinced they'd win, but the spirit he showed against Contador in the mountains in 2010 made for a good race and I too feel rather sorry for the guy. I also remember his descent after losing that 39 seconds! But, I can't help thinking he is probably at the end of the line as far as a GC contender and if he comes back, like others have implied, he may have to settle for the mountains, which won't be easy with some of the talent out there - both established and up and coming.


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## jifdave (24 Mar 2013)

although very very far off the pace today andy finished a race which is a first this year..... it is a start.....


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## smutchin (25 Mar 2013)

Only a few minutes behind Cadel Evans too!


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## rich p (26 Mar 2013)

The rumours of his death have been greatly exaggerated!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck-i-was-never-dead
I am glad he's showing some spirit.


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## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

Will the news of his brother (Frank being handed the boot by Trek) give Andy a new mental hit?
Or in other words wil his - somewhat - return to form will stop very shortly?


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## tigger (5 Jul 2013)

I wouldn't write off young Schleck. Yes he can't time trial, yes he lost his head earlier in the year and yes his form leading up to the Tour has been woeful. BUT that's pretty much par for the course for Schleck. I wouldn't be overly surprised if he took one of the Alpine stages nor if he finishes in the top 10.


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## yello (5 Jul 2013)

tigger said:


> I wouldn't be overly surprised if he took one of the Alpine stages


 
I would be.... but I have my hat and napkin on standby. Top ten finish though, yes, I could see that.


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## smutchin (5 Jul 2013)

He seems to be going OK in the Tour so far, doesn't he? May well be a good bet for a stage win.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> He seems to be going OK in the Tour so far, doesn't he? May well be a good bet for a stage win.


I wonder how motivated he'll be feeling now that the team's dropping Fränk - A seems to have been under the impression that Radio Shack would be supporting him not dropping F just before new contract time.


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2013)

It's either going to motivate him or de-motivate him: I think that's all the options covered.

What I mean is, if he's still feeling a bit mentally fragile, this could be a downer but I suspect he and Frank must have had a clue before it happened and at the moment he's doing OK. It might even be exactly what he needs.


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## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

yello said:


> I would be.... but I have my hat and napkin on standby. Top ten finish though, yes, I could see that.


Something like this for me too Yello...


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## The Couch (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Something like this for me too Yello...


 
Didn't know you were wearing the yellow jersey today


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Didn't know you were wearing the yellow jersey today


That's the Yellow Jumper that Ned Boulting wrote about.


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## threebikesmcginty (5 Jul 2013)

rich is in the Guiness book of Records for the smallest conservatory ever built.


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## rich p (5 Jul 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> rich is in the Guiness book of Records for the smallest conservatory ever built.


It's long and thin, like Andy Schleck, and unlike 3BM


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## threebikesmcginty (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's long and thin, like Andy Schleck, and unlike 3BM


 

Fair enough, rich, I've been insulting you all day you grumpy old tosser.


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## Noodley (5 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> It's long and thin, like Andy Schleck, and unlike 3BM


 
So long and thin that you'd think you could have fitted an ironing board into it, you scruffy nobber.


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## rich p (6 Jul 2013)

Noodley said:


> So long and thin that you'd think you could have fitted an ironing board into it, you scruffy nobber.


Yeah but you admire the strelitzia, right?


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## Noodley (6 Jul 2013)

rich p said:


> Yeah but you admire the strelitzia, right?


 
Is that a posh name for your 'receding hairline'?


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## Hont (8 Jul 2013)

Back on topic. It's been incredible to see Schleck junior in the front group in the mountains mere months after being unable to hold a wheel. One might almost say unbelievable.


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

Hont said:


> Back on topic. It's been incredible to see Schleck junior in the front group in the mountains mere months after being unable to hold a wheel. One might almost say unbelievable.


Hont... Are you trying to stir up something? 
No, it's still very much believable... if he would be dropping everyone from his wheel, that would be weird... he has just managed to hold on longer than a couple of months ago (but with his past TdF results, it's not like this should be so far out of his potential)


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## rich p (8 Jul 2013)

The Couch said:


> Hont... Are you trying to stir up something?
> No, it's still very much believable... if he would be dropping everyone from his wheel, that would be weird... he has just managed to hold on longer than a couple of months ago (but with his past TdF results, it's not like this should be so far out of his potential)


I think I agree TC. It's not as if he could match Froome on Saturday but then again nothing would surprise me.


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## smutchin (8 Jul 2013)

It amused me that he managed to stay with the leaders up all the climbs yesterday but still nearly lost touch on the final descent. 

I'm actually starting to warm to him a bit - especially after his hilarious interview with Matt Rendell yesterday (it's on the itv podcast if you missed it).


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## The Couch (8 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> ... after his hilarious interview with Matt Rendell yesterday (it's on the itv podcast if you missed it).


Did he just comment the whole Movistar Team (tactics)?  The kid does dare to say his mind

... still he must a bit frustrated that his team isn't as good (in group) as it was last year


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