# Cheating?



## pmun (14 May 2021)

Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


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## Drago (14 May 2021)

Why would it be cheating? I didn't realise the game had any rules.


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## Mo1959 (14 May 2021)

Only place it’s cheating is on the likes of Strava if you don’t log the ride as being on an e-bike. I know Strava can be considered as just a bit of fun, but for those paying a subscription for it, it makes a mockery of the segment leaderboards otherwise.


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## Archie_tect (14 May 2021)

For the year of lockdown I've used the time to lose weight, having an electric bike would've just meant I went faster and probably further for the same physical effort, which was the driver for me.

When MrsA_T and I go out on the e-assist tandem we are quicker than I am on my own on my road bike.... it's not cheating at all, it's just faster and way more fun up hills- we still giggle when I set the the assist to kick in and we pedal uphill at 14mph!

[Mind you we were seriously frowned upon by the Tandem Club group when we turned up with our e-assist tandem and proceeded to sail up the hills - to such an extent we didn't us the motor much and had 80% battery when we'd finished the 42 mile ride on the moors towards Otterburn.]


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## Slick (14 May 2021)

We have just bought a house 24 miles from my work. I'm currently wrestling with, do I drive a bit then cycle 12 to 15 miles in or cycle train cycle probably 8 to 10 miles or go electric and do the full 24 each way on the bike?


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## Archie_tect (14 May 2021)

Slick said:


> We have just bought a house 24 miles from my work. I'm currently wrestling with, do I drive a bit then cycle 12 to 15 miles in or cycle train cycle probably 8 to 10 miles or go electric and do the full 24 each way on the bike?


...or move back again... [not serious]


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## gzoom (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.



Is having an more aero bike cheating? Are lighter wheels cheating? Is a better groupset cheating?

I ride my eBike as much as my analogue road bike. They complement each other. As it happens my eBike is in the shop getting fixed right now, my road bike has 23mm tyres, rim brakes, no mudguards can you guess how much I have used it last week in the rain/wind etc to commute to work on?......I give you a clue you only need 1 finger to count it .

Am under 40, I have no health issues, I can average 18mph on my analog road bike over rolling terrain and my next bike purchase will be an eRoad bike.


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## Arrowfoot (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


The issue is not cheating. Its more the recognition that we need help past a certain point in our age. Riding is not just commuting, transport and fitness but a pleasurable experience. 

Cheating allegations start to fly if you turn up at club rides and start walking with the swagger or in bunch ride, you act as though you are fitter than those without the motor.


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## Dave7 (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


A good question imo.
Aged 74......prior to this health issue.....I enjoyed the challenge of cycling. OK only 20-35 miles but I enjoyed it.
I gave my bike to my son and am now seriously looking at an ebike.
I view it as a new chapter in life. Embrace and enjoy it.


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## Illaveago (15 May 2021)

If you leave the flex attached people will be able to see that it is electric and so you will feel like you are not cheating !


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## stoatsngroats (15 May 2021)

Horses for courses I think, different purposes.
Mrs SnG always enjoys cycling, but matching her pace didn’t provide sufficient workout for me, but was still enjoyable for us both.
With Her Cube electric, she now doesn’t find hills very difficult and waits for me at the top, and distances of 30 plus miles are sufficient for her to enjoy a wider area, and for me to get some exercise.
She also agreed to ride to Paris within the first week of having her new e bike, and we did this, in 2018, which was one of the most wonderful 4 day cycling weeks we’ve ever had.
Cheating, no..... empowering, most definitely!




Cube and Cannondale in Paris!


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## Slick (15 May 2021)

stoatsngroats said:


> Horses for courses I think, different purposes.
> Mrs SnG always enjoys cycling, but matching her pace didn’t provide sufficient workout for me, but was still enjoyable for us both.
> With Her Cube electric, she now doesn’t find hills very difficult and waits for me at the top, and distances of 30 plus miles are sufficient for her to enjoy a wider area, and for me to get some exercise.
> She also agreed to ride to Paris within the first week of having her new e bike, and we did this, in 2018, which was one of the most wonderful 4 day cycling weeks we’ve ever had.
> ...


Same story with myself and Mrs Slick, went from only doing a fee very slow miles to a mini tour in Holland with her ebike. Great tool.


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## ebikeerwidnes (15 May 2021)

Whether or not it cheating depends on why you ride
If you ride to get/keep fit and nothing else then - it may be cheating
But if you actually like riding and having an ebike means you can go further and will do it more often then is isn;t cheating because you are probably getting more exercise by ebiking for 2 hours 7 times a week instead of biking 30 minutes 4 times a week

And if you do it just for fitness then aero, carbon frame, aero clothes etc etc are cheating as well - possibly gears as well

I just do it because I like it
I may get a non ebike at some point when I can ride my ebike in low assist all the time with no effort - but I'll wait until the post pandemic sell off of 1 years old bikes starts and the prices go down. I also need the time for my wife to forget how much the ebike cost!!


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## Legomutton (15 May 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> The issue is ... more the recognition that we need help past a certain point in our age. Riding is not just commuting, transport and fitness but a pleasurable experience.



Or with health issues.

Absolutely true for me...I might be able to climb an average hill unassisted in granny gear with a struggle, but there's no joy in struggling or in being exhausted after a 5 mile ride that is supposed to be fun.

However I don't think even that excuse is required. Choosing to use an e-bike as an e-bike is fine even if you're Geraint Thomas.

And I also do it for fitness - without an e-bike, I wouldn't do it at all. My heart might be knackered, but it still needs exercise to avoid being even worse


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## ebikeerwidnes (15 May 2021)

My wife has an ebike because she can never be sure that her asthma will not kick in.
Hence, she would be nervous about riding any distance because she might not be able to get back.
However, with an ebike she could simply increase the assists level and even very gentle pedalling will get her back with minimal effort.


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## DRHysted (15 May 2021)

I only think of it as cheating when they’ve been hacked to go above 15.5 mph with assist still on. 
I have converted one of my recumbent trikes with e-assist so my 73 year old Mum can get back in cycling. At present I’m using it for commuting as the other is having new wheels made, the feeling when the assist kicks in at 100% as you pull away spinning the back wheel is addictive, but I tend to use it only to counter the added weight on hills otherwise I’d flatten the battery. On this bike over 8 miles e-assist adds 2 mph to my average speed. 

This is the difference e-assist makes on a short sharp steep hill. Mums on the e-assist tadpole, I’m on a normal tadpole, and the cyclist that goes past us both is on an e-assist bike. 


View: https://youtu.be/4Uen1HNTY7w


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## gzoom (15 May 2021)

Dave7 said:


> Aged 74......prior to this health issue.....I enjoyed the challenge of cycling.



Am not sure I like all the ageism and health discrimination going on in this thread.

I'm no that old or have health issue, am just lazy, like tech, and want to know how it feels to go up a 15% gradient at 15mph like pro but without needing drugs/talent/training.


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## youngoldbloke (15 May 2021)

gzoom said:


> Am not sure I like all the ageism and health discrimination going on in this thread.
> 
> I'm no that old or have health issue, am just lazy, like tech,* and want to know how it feels to go up a 15% gradient at 15mph like pro but without needing drugs/talent/training*.


Not the same at all! No comparison. I don't think any of us mere mortals can experience pro-level riding. I marvel at the average speeds of Grand Tour stages. We'd need very illegal e-bikes to keep up with them!


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## newfhouse (15 May 2021)

As someone who’s about to buy my first e-bike I think I can understand what’s behind the question, but of course it’s only cheating if you pretend it’s something it’s not to people that care one way or the other.

In my case I have a slipped disc. I’m doing specific exercises to strengthen my back in advance of proper treatment and I’ve got myself back to four commutes a week, so a little over 100 miles, but I’m not sure that I’ll be able to sustain it in the longer term. I still want to cycle and have a free aerobic workout, beat the traffic and so on, so an e-bike is just a sensible way to strike a balance... I hope.


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## gbb (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


The problem (if that's the right word) comes from within, ie yourself. (This is my take on it, not necessarily right for anyone else).
I used to be very fit then arthritis becomes a big part of my life and the old me is gone, impossible, so I happily ebike now. My outlook has changed, if i dont get out, I dont, if I do, I just enjoy it. But deep down I miss the old me, I still regret the loss of fitness. Fitness was a constant and hard won battle, something you (I) jealously guarded, it's not easy to let go.
If anyone else has a problem with it, tough, couldnt care less.


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## scoobs (15 May 2021)

gbb said:


> The problem (if that's the right word) comes from within, ie yourself. (This is my take on it, not necessarily right for anyone else).
> I used to be very fit then arthritis becomes a big part of my life and the old me is gone, impossible, so I happily ebike now. My outlook has changed, if i dont get out, I dont, if I do, I just enjoy it. But deep down I miss the old me, I still regret the loss of fitness. Fitness was a constant and hard won battle, something you (I) jealously guarded, it's not easy to let go.
> If anyone else has a problem with it, tough, couldnt care less.


I could have written exactly that about myself. I certainly don’t give a 💩 what others might think in this regard.


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## Eric Olthwaite (15 May 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Cheating allegations start to fly if you turn up at club rides



Many club rides go at 18mph+ on the flat. Some quite a bit faster. How easy would it be for a rider on a legal e-bike (max assisted speed 15.5mph) to keep up with that?


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## Pale Rider (15 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> Many club rides go at 18mph+ on the flat. Some quite a bit faster. How easy would it be for a rider on a legal e-bike (max assisted speed 15.5mph) to keep up with that?



Very hard, because he would need to be fitter and stronger than the other lads who are already pushing themselves.



Slick said:


> We have just bought a house 24 miles from my work. I'm currently wrestling with, do I drive a bit then cycle 12 to 15 miles in or cycle train cycle probably 8 to 10 miles or go electric and do the full 24 each way on the bike?



Your plan could work, but a reliable range of close to 50 miles is difficult to achieve on one battery.

I think you will either need two batteries, or charge at work which for convenience would mean a second charger.


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## youngoldbloke (15 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> Many club rides go at 18mph+ on the flat. Some quite a bit faster. How easy would it be for a rider on a legal e-bike (max assisted speed 15.5mph) to keep up with that?


Before I needed an ebike so as to continue with some form of cycling it was very possible to take part in faster club leisure and training rides. Now, for me it's next to impossible, which is why I've been in favour of an increase in assist cut off speed to around 18 mph. If you don't find it difficult you need to be fitter and stronger, as Pale Rider says. IMO There are basically two sorts of ebike rider - those who need the assistance, and those who want the assistance. I need it, otherwise I'd still be riding my other 'manual' bikes. However, the groups I've ridden with since using an ebike have always been very understanding, any banter about 'cheating' simply that.


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## gzoom (15 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> Many club rides go at 18mph+ on the flat. Some quite a bit faster. How easy would it be for a rider on a legal e-bike (max assisted speed 15.5mph) to keep up with that?



I can average 17mph+ on my hybrid Boardman with Fazua motor. Bare in mind its a hybrid with a very flexible frame, frankly a really cheapo wheel set with some heavy tyres.

Currently I can push 18mph average unassisted, the flats are OK (I can hold around 20-21mph) but once I hit a 10%+ incline I slow down to sub 10mph which kills my average speed. 

The Boardman smashes all my PBs on climbs by a decent margin, am also less tired at the top of the climb so can attack the decent harder. But poor aero+wheels really slow it down on the straights.

An eRoad bike, with good aero frame, decent wheel set 18mph+ average will be easy, cannot wait to try one .


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## Tim Hudson (15 May 2021)

We have a fleet of around 35 electric-assist bikes - see my intro post. EBikes are not cheating.

*Mod Note:*
@Tim Hudson welcome to CC.
Could you please dispense of the bold formatting (it's bad forum etiquette, also against the forum rules).
One link to your videos (in your signature, you will have access to this feature after a few posts) is plenty 
Thank you, enjoy the forum


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## Tim Hudson (15 May 2021)

Tim Hudson said:


> We have a fleet of around 35 electric-assist bikes - see my intro post. EBikes are not cheating.
> 
> *Mod Note:*
> @Tim Hudson welcome to CC.
> ...



Ooops! Sorry! It's my 'content writing' habits. It all comes naturally! I will desist!


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## Drago (15 May 2021)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> Many club rides go at 18mph+ on the flat. Some quite a bit faster. How easy would it be for a rider on a legal e-bike (max assisted speed 15.5mph) to keep up with that?


Not very. This is why I don't understand the "cheating" remarks. I'm in my 50's, weigh as much as a small moon and have the aerodynamics of a backwards facing hippo, yet can still cosistently manage 18-19 averages over 20 or 30 miles. Go for a spin on my ebike and I'm far slower, so in what way is that cheating?

Indeed, if you're knocking on in years, infirm or injured, and an ebike helps you ride a bit quicker (or indeed, helps you ride at all) then that can hardly be cheating. Anything that extends a riders riding career, or gets someone back to riding, is bloody brilliant, not cheating. 

We don't accuse car drivers of cheating for having an engine (being lazy, or polluting, pehaps...) so why would any brain donor consider a small electric _assist_ motor as cheating? Next person to tell me I'm cheating will earn themselves a respounding foxtrot oscar.


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## Phaeton (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


By growing up


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## Slick (15 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Very hard, because he would need to be fitter and stronger than the other lads who are already pushing themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mrs Slick gets close to 70 miles on a single charge with her boch battery and she pretty much canes it.


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## Pale Rider (15 May 2021)

Slick said:


> Mrs Slick gets close to 70 miles on a single charge with her boch battery and she pretty much canes it.



if she's 'caning' the bike she must be riding above cut off for a lot of the time, or only using the lowest eco level.

Be interesting to see if you could manage a round trip commute on it.

A poster earlier mentions 17.4mph average speed on his ebike.

Good stuff, but it tells us nothing about range because, on average, he's not using any battery power.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 May 2021)

Nowt wrong with cheating. Enjoy it.


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## Slick (15 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> if she's 'caning' the bike she must be riding above cut off for a lot of the time, or only using the lowest eco level.
> 
> Be interesting to see if you could manage a round trip commute on it.
> 
> ...


By caning it I mean on full assist pretty much everywhere.


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## Eric Olthwaite (15 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Nowt wrong with cheating. Enjoy it.



Well yes. If cheating was good enough for Coppi, it's good enough for me.


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## keithmac (15 May 2021)

I use my ebike for work, reasonably fit and not ill so should I feel a tinge of guilt?.


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## theboxers (15 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


When solo riding I will, more often than not, use my e-bike. When riding with my brothers I will, more often than not, use my non assist bike. 

I see e-bike as an assist to, not replacement for, effort. I tend to choose routes that are hillier and longer when riding alone. I can, on flat ground, run at over the limit cutoff. However due to my weight  I need help going up hills. Anything over 6% and I soon end up struggling with the gearing on my e-bike. Over 8% and I'm grinding to a halt. So that is usually where I end up using my assist. 7% and more gets assist up until my legs and lungs give out . This allows me to work at losing weight and getting fitter as time goes on, it seems to be working. 

My brothers, although much younger and lighter than I am, are also less fit. I need to dial my efforts back when riding with them, so see an e-bike as an impediment to the harmony of being out with my brothers riding bikes. At all other times I don't give a shiv.

Get an e-bike or don't. When out and about you don't have to use the assist part of an e-bike and who gives a shiv what others think about using one. If they express displeasure at your use of one it only means they are jealous because they want one and can't get or afford one. Feck em


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## Pale Rider (15 May 2021)

Slick said:


> By caning it I mean on full assist pretty much everywhere.


Something a bit odd here.

Ask any Bosch bike rider and he/she will tell you it will do nowhere near 70 miles on full assist Turbo setting.

The Mrs may be comparatively light, but us beefy blokes could easily flatten a 500wh Bosch battery in under 30 miles, particularly if there's some climbing involved.

Some of the latest Bosch Powertube batteries have a slightly larger capacity, but I would expect to need most of two 500wh batteries - 1,000wh - to get 70+ miles on Turbo.


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## Slick (15 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Something a bit odd here.
> 
> Ask any Bosch bike rider and he/she will tell you it will do nowhere near 70 miles on full assist Turbo setting.
> 
> ...


She definitely is very much on the lighter side.


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## Mike_P (15 May 2021)

Strava sometimes identifies a ride as a possible ebike one and asks for confirmation. Problem is they have not copied ride segments into the ebike category; there is a way of of doing it off ride data using a third party script. I mistakenly did that after setting the ebike ride public and it resulted in me gaining local legend status on a segment I have only encountered once


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## gzoom (16 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Something a bit odd here.
> 
> Ask any Bosch bike rider and he/she will tell you it will do nowhere near 70 miles on full assist Turbo setting.



As you say its all about how much or how little you push the bike.

Here is another shorter 'smash it' ride I've done on the eBike. You can see am hardly ever below 15.5mph, its really only the climbs where I need the boost.

For that 20 mile ride I used around 15% of the battery, so 100 miles+ range from a 250wh battery.







However there are also work commutes where am trying to take it as easy as possible and done this. Essentially sat at 15.5mph letting the motor do most of the work. For my commutes I get about 30-40 miles range from the same battery, so about 1/3 the range of when am 'smashing it'. So the 'range' of any eBike isn't just rider dependent, its laziness dependent too!!

And that is the best thing about eBikes, for someone like me I can do as little or as much work as I feel like, which all adds up to more time out on the bike .


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## youngoldbloke (16 May 2021)

As has been pointed out - ride above 15.5 mph, no battery usage, so is irrelevant when talking about range. If I switch off assistance the range of my bike is infinite.


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## Drago (16 May 2021)

Indeed. I can get about 80 miles range out of my ebike, and then I can switch it on, stay in the assistance zone, and get another 30 or 40.


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## gzoom (16 May 2021)

Sub 10kg eBike is here......May not be cheating but cannot be far off. 8.5kg is close to the weight of an aero road bike, now add in extra power for the climbs its certainly close to mechanical dopping. 

Climbs are what really makes the difference to average speed, especially in a group. I cannot wait to try one of these things.

https://hps-bike.com/collections/ready-to-ride/products/hps-domestique-ekar-small


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## Pale Rider (16 May 2021)

gzoom said:


> Sub 10kg eBike is here......May not be cheating but cannot be far off. 8.5kg is close to the weight of an aero road bike, now add in extra power for the climbs its certainly close to mechanical dopping.
> 
> Climbs are what really makes the difference to average speed, especially in a group. I cannot wait to try one of these things.
> 
> https://hps-bike.com/collections/ready-to-ride/products/hps-domestique-ekar-small



You've no need to wait, the seatpost motor system used in this bike or one very like it, has been around for more than 10 years.

Known as Gruber or Vivax, it was a motor of this type which the Belgian cyclocross lass used and was banned for.

It never really caught on being relatively expensive and having such a weedy power output and range as to have no appeal to the general cyclist.

It was more a marginal gains ebike of relevance only to (cheating) pros.

Seems the Vivax distribution company has recently gone out of business.

Call me a cynic, but I suspect hps has picked up their stock for pennies and is attempting to market it in a carbon dream machine.

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/07/hidden-motor-brand-vivax-has-gone-out-of-business/


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## welsh dragon (16 May 2021)

I am a bit tired of seeing all the same old same old threads asking if using an Ebike is cheating or not.

Who the hell cares. If you want one then buy one. Why do you care what anyone else thinks. It's you're money not theirs.


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## gzoom (16 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> It was more a marginal gains ebike of relevance only to (cheating) pros.



The entire road bike industry is based on selling 'marginal gains' to non pros .

£10k for an eRoad bike or £10k for an analogue road bike with a bit more aero claims.....I know which one is going to get money.

Though £10k is too much for me to justify on any bike, but at £5k its a no brainer to go for the eBike version verus analogue.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 May 2021)

My wife and I overtook a couple of women up a hill today. The front one accused us of cheating. Which was weird as she was on her hybrid and I was on my three speed Brompton. We can only conclude they thought one was an ebike. My wife decided to take it as a compliment.


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## scoobs (16 May 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> I am a bit tired of seeing all the same old same old threads asking if using an Ebike is cheating or not.
> 
> Who the hell cares. If you want one then buy one. Why do you care what anyone else thinks. It's you're money not theirs.


Absolutely on the money 👍


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## Pale Rider (16 May 2021)

gzoom said:


> but at £5k its a no brainer to go for the eBike version verus analogue.



That's certainly one view, particularly if you think you are getting fair value for the bike bits.

Some of the previous Vivax bikes looked poor in that respect.

I saw one a few years ago which was a £750 ally roadie with a Vivax motor retailing for close to £4k.


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## gbb (17 May 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> I am a bit tired of seeing all the same old same old threads asking if using an Ebike is cheating or not.
> 
> Who the hell cares. If you want one then buy one. Why do you care what anyone else thinks. It's you're money not theirs.


Best form of defense is attack...I suspect if someone accused me of cheating, I'd simply reply.. but I dont care what you think...or mind yer own ferkin business...or my money, my rules, sod off....or who the fark do you think YOU are...anything along those lines.


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## CXRAndy (17 May 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> I am a bit tired of seeing all the same old same old threads asking if using an Ebike is cheating or not.
> 
> Who the hell cares. If you want one then buy one. Why do you care what anyone else thinks. It's you're money not theirs.



Just ride away from them smiling


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## Drago (17 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My wife and I overtook a couple of women up a hill today. The front one accused us of cheating. Which was weird as she was on her hybrid and I was on my three speed Brompton. We can only conclude they thought one was an ebike. My wife decided to take it as a compliment.


Was she perhaps accusing you of cheating on your wife?


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## Legomutton (17 May 2021)

This cheating's not working is all I can add. 

I was passed by yet another roadie yesterday while plodding comfortably into a headwind on a slight upward gradient in Eco.

We were each doing what we wanted, which seemed fine to me. I had just about given up cycling, now I'm out again whenever the weather is kind and getting more than enough exercise.


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## scoobs (17 May 2021)




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## mustang1 (17 May 2021)

pmun said:


> Probably a silly question, so forgive me. Many of us are quite proud of our physical capability on a bike - so how do we overcome that sense that having electric assistance is cheating? I ask because I'm tempted to go electric.


Cheating takes many forms. You can go electric as you mentioned above, or you can take EPOs etc. But you can also get aero frames, or aero wheels, a wider range cassette, go on a diet, or dont go on a diet if you have a stressful job. These are all forms of cheating, but why specifically choose electric as the _de facto_ cheat? In any case, going electric could be a form of UN-cheating, because you only get assistance up to 15mph and after that you have to lug around a heavy bike.

I suppose one way of not cheating is to ensure everyone has an identical bike and doesn't draft. Hey, is drafting a type of cheating?

I also want an electric bike but I'm staying away for now only because i don't want something else to go wrong.


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## mustang1 (17 May 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My wife and I overtook a couple of women up a hill today. The front one accused us of cheating. Which was weird as she was on her hybrid and I was on my three speed Brompton. We can only conclude they thought one was an ebike. My wife decided to take it as a compliment.


You should have told her shes a flat earther and anti vaxer then dropped the hammer. I wonder what kind of stupid personalilty these people have. Idiots.


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## mustang1 (17 May 2021)

Legomutton said:


> This cheating's not working is all I can add.
> 
> I was passed by yet another roadie yesterday while plodding comfortably into a headwind on a slight upward gradient in Eco.
> 
> We were each doing what we wanted, which seemed fine to me. I had just about given up cycling, now I'm out again whenever the weather is kind and getting more than enough exercise.


Best response of the thread. Bravo sir.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 May 2021)

mustang1 said:


> You should have told her shes a flat earther and anti vaxer then dropped the hammer. I wonder what kind of stupid personalilty these people have. Idiots.



Even funnier. A few miles down the road. We were sat on a fallen tree trunk at side of road enjoying the views and sun. They came past and said “Knew we’d catch you up”. WTF!


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## macp (18 May 2021)

Touch wood im relatively fit & well and before getting my ebike I had been commuting to work by (non assist) cycle for over 10yrs. 
I decided I deserved a break but didnt want to give up cycling. I could easily drive to work but I like cycling and I like the additional health benefits. But in all honesty for a long time I was a motorcyclist and my ebike gives me back a little of that feeling. And that part really is at the heart of my enjoyment of my ebike. Its my transport, my vehicle and my pride & joy.

Cheating ??


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## Ste T. (20 May 2021)

I do a 10mile each way commute and have done for over 10 years. My arthritic knees are slowly giving up the ghost. The point is fast approaching when it will be ebike or no bike.
I refuse to give up cycling so ebike it is. 😁👍👍👍
Why care what anybody else thinks, especially strangers?


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## MGman (22 May 2021)

We bought two FreegGo ebikes soon after changing from a touring caravan to motorhomes. Reason: a caravan + car gives the obvious flexibility when situated some distance from shops and towns. Without a car & the motorhomes all longer than 7m, town parking etc was no fun.The two earlier Claude Butlers were fine but when loaded up - it was a struggle. Ebikes, though, meant we could load up the panniers with sufficient goods to last a week. 

Five years on - the FreeGo's were showing their age,especially the motors which didn't like getting wet. So the two new Raleigh Motus' with crank drives were a world apart! Smooth acceleration, highly adaptable depending on the "mode" selected. They mean that both of us, being the wrong side of being close to 80, the downsizing to a much smaller motor home can be delayed. We're not ready yet! Cheating? No, just being practical. 
That said, the recent acquisition of my son's unwanted Genesis Volare, to which he'd added a lot of "naughty" bits, is another matter!


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## keithmac (22 May 2021)

macp said:


> Touch wood im relatively fit & well and before getting my ebike I had been commuting to work by (non assist) cycle for over 10yrs.
> I decided I deserved a break but didnt want to give up cycling. I could easily drive to work but I like cycling and I like the additional health benefits. But in all honesty for a long time I was a motorcyclist and my ebike gives me back a little of that feeling. And that part really is at the heart of my enjoyment of my ebike. Its my transport, my vehicle and my pride & joy.
> 
> Cheating ??



Exactly same here, been cycling to work for 25 years in all weathers, last 5 on an ebike. 

After a full day on your feet at work it's nice to have a little help up the hills.

Don't fancy commuting in the car, enjoy riding my bikes.

I was faster on my none ebike but that's not the be all and end all..


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## macp (23 May 2021)

keithmac said:


> Exactly same here, been cycling to work for 25 years in all weathers, last 5 on an ebike.
> 
> After a full day on your feet at work it's nice to have a little help up the hills.
> 
> ...


That is exactly how I feel. Some days I work harder and some days I let the bike help me home. Also like you I was faster (at times) on my old road bike but the advantages of my ebike easily outweigh my roadbike.

There is a lot of ignorance regarding ebikes though. One guy I was chatting with at work looked at my bike and said 'lazy'. Until I told him it assists my ride and that it does not have a throttle. He smiled and said sweet. It was short lived though as my colleague told me later that he said he hates cyclists


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## dodgy (23 May 2021)

I've said this before on here, but if someone accuses you of cheating, ask them if they have a washing machine at home. Watch their face look confused for a few seconds until it dawns on them.


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## Mo1959 (23 May 2021)

Cheating only really applies if it is giving you an unfair advantage in say competition, or even using Strava and logging a ride as being on a normal bike intentionally, knowing that you are having an advantage on hilly segments, etc. Otherwise, I think they are great and the day will no doubt come I will consider one.


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## Mike_P (23 May 2021)

To avoid Strava cheating issues any ebike Strava user can copy ride segments to the ebike section, something Strava have not automatically done. To make it simpler their is a script written by Nick Beaton available which a userscript manager such as Tampermonkey uses in Chrome or MS Edge with buttons added to copy segments either publically or privately. Just leave it running for for some time; it converts the ride from an ebike one to ride (so best to keep the ride restricted to your own viewing), goes through the route picking up each segment and checking if its already in the ebike section or if not creating it. At the end of the process it should reset to ebike. Their is a limit on how many segments can be created each day so if a lot are involved the script may need to run more than once. The created segments pick up any existing ebike records along the segments so having having run the script against an ebike ride along a section of the A61 not previously ebiiked last week it added three segments to the ebike ones with my not exactly flat out attempt gaining 5th, 7th and 8th overall.


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## macp (25 May 2021)

dodgy said:


> I've said this before on here, but if someone accuses you of cheating, ask them if they have a washing machine at home. Watch their face look confused for a few seconds until it dawns on them.


Works for me or a dishwasher which could be arguably more relevant. Even though the response will be "but you cant ride a washing machine".


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## dodgy (25 May 2021)

macp said:


> Works for me or a dishwasher which could be arguably more relevant. Even though the response will be "but you cant ride a washing machine".


I use the washing machine analogy because close to 100% of people have one in their homes, rather more than dishwashers.


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## macp (25 May 2021)

dodgy said:


> I use the washing machine analogy because close to 100% of people have one in their homes, rather more than dishwashers.


Fair point and I will use it. Then await the "you cant ride a....." when it comes.


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## dodgy (25 May 2021)

macp said:


> Fair point and I will use it. Then await the "you cant ride a....." when it comes.


Reply "you can't wash your dishes with your ebike". 🤷‍♂️


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