# Electric bikes again



## Danny (15 Nov 2007)

Following on from the thread a few months ago, can someone explain whether there are electric bikes on the market which can actually take over all the pedalling when required. 

I have spoken to two LBSs who say they are only allowed to sell electric bikes which are power assisted, and that a bike that could take over all the pedalling would be classified as a moped. 

Is what they are telling me correct, or am I just getting a line because they don't happen to stock the kind of bike I am looking for?


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## Danny (15 Nov 2007)

Following on from the thread a few months ago, can someone explain whether there are electric bikes on the market which can actually take over all the pedalling when required. 

I have spoken to two LBSs who say they are only allowed to sell electric bikes which are power assisted, and that a bike that could take over all the pedalling would be classified as a moped. 

Is what they are telling me correct, or am I just getting a line because they don't happen to stock the kind of bike I am looking for?


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## mickle (15 Nov 2007)

Its a line. Electrickery bikes are available in two types, theres yer common or garden 'electric bike' and then theres 'pedelecs'.

Pedelecs generally drive through the bikes transmission and have a pedal pressure or chain tension sensor linked to the circuitry. The motor only works if youre pedaling.

Electric bikes have a motor which is not linked to the bikes transmission. They usually have a twist grip style throttle.

Each type is subject to different EU legislation. I dont know what the ins and outs of the law are, your best source of info on the subject is the electric bike comparison pages on A to B Magazines excellent website.


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## mickle (15 Nov 2007)

Its a line. Electrickery bikes are available in two types, theres yer common or garden 'electric bike' and then theres 'pedelecs'.

Pedelecs generally drive through the bikes transmission and have a pedal pressure or chain tension sensor linked to the circuitry. The motor only works if youre pedaling.

Electric bikes have a motor which is not linked to the bikes transmission. They usually have a twist grip style throttle.

Each type is subject to different EU legislation. I dont know what the ins and outs of the law are, your best source of info on the subject is the electric bike comparison pages on A to B Magazines excellent website.


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## RedBike (16 Nov 2007)

The bike must have pedals and be limited to a maximum powered speed of 15mph; but as far as I know there's no legal requirement for you to have to pedal.


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## RedBike (16 Nov 2007)

The bike must have pedals and be limited to a maximum powered speed of 15mph; but as far as I know there's no legal requirement for you to have to pedal.


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## davidwalton (16 Nov 2007)

Dannyg said:


> Following on from the thread a few months ago, can someone explain whether there are electric bikes on the market which can actually take over all the pedalling when required.
> 
> I have spoken to two LBSs who say they are only allowed to sell electric bikes which are power assisted, and that a bike that could take over all the pedalling would be classified as a moped.
> 
> Is what they are telling me correct, or am I just getting a line because they don't happen to stock the kind of bike I am looking for?



See http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/uk_law.shtml


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## davidwalton (16 Nov 2007)

Dannyg said:


> Following on from the thread a few months ago, can someone explain whether there are electric bikes on the market which can actually take over all the pedalling when required.
> 
> I have spoken to two LBSs who say they are only allowed to sell electric bikes which are power assisted, and that a bike that could take over all the pedalling would be classified as a moped.
> 
> Is what they are telling me correct, or am I just getting a line because they don't happen to stock the kind of bike I am looking for?



See http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/uk_law.shtml


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## Tynan (16 Nov 2007)

suspect as soon as it's powered, you're looking at signals and so on

like those mobility carts for the old people


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## Tynan (16 Nov 2007)

suspect as soon as it's powered, you're looking at signals and so on

like those mobility carts for the old people


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## Arch (16 Nov 2007)

Tynan said:


> suspect as soon as it's powered, you're looking at signals and so on
> 
> like those mobility carts for the old people



Don't think so. An electric bike depends on the same signals as a pedalled bike - arm signals. And not all mobility carts have indicators, only the really lethal 10 tonne ones...


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## Arch (16 Nov 2007)

Tynan said:


> suspect as soon as it's powered, you're looking at signals and so on
> 
> like those mobility carts for the old people



Don't think so. An electric bike depends on the same signals as a pedalled bike - arm signals. And not all mobility carts have indicators, only the really lethal 10 tonne ones...


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## Smokin Joe (16 Nov 2007)

I don't know the law regarding power output, but an electric bike would certainly not be classed as a moped even if it had no pedals at all. A moped is a vehicle with an IC engine.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Nov 2007)

I don't know the law regarding power output, but an electric bike would certainly not be classed as a moped even if it had no pedals at all. A moped is a vehicle with an IC engine.


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## palinurus (16 Nov 2007)

Your local bike shop are wrong. A to B here:

AtoB


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## palinurus (16 Nov 2007)

Your local bike shop are wrong. A to B here:

AtoB


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## Danny (17 Nov 2007)

Thanks for the links. However, having followed them up I don't think the situation is all that clear cut.

Under UK and EU legislation electric bikes which provide power when you are not pedalling are only legal if they have something called a "type approval certificate". This is apparently costly to obtain, so most manufacturers fit sensors to their bikes which stops the motor if you stop pedalling.

However what makes the situation more confusing is that according to the *A to B* website, the Department For Transport have said that they understand that Trading Standards are "unlikely to take action" to prevent the sale of electric bicycles which do not have a sensor fitted or a type approval certificate. And *Kinetics* imply that they will only sell you such a bike if you are prepared to sign some form of exemption.


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## mickle (17 Nov 2007)

The situation is indeed confusing, but if we Cycling Illuminati and the electric-bike anoraks at A to B magazine dont know what the bottom line is then the chances of your local over-worked Trading Standards officer or Constable of the parish having the slightest clue is highly unlikely. 

Ive Hot-Rodded my LaFree to exceed the 15 mph statutory limit for lecky bikes by FOUR MILES AN HOUR. Im such a rebel! Life on the edge! Let them arrest me if they can catch me! 



Mwahahahahahahahha!


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## spire (19 Nov 2007)

Why do people buy electric bikes?

(This question is not directed at the disabled, whose needs are obvious.)


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## Danny (20 Nov 2007)

In my case I am looking for a bike for someone who has MS and can't cycle very far unassisted. It needs to be a proper electric bike (rather than a pedalec) in case she runs out of steam and can't peddle any further.


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## Arch (21 Nov 2007)

spire said:


> Why do people buy electric bikes?
> 
> (This question is not directed at the disabled, whose needs are obvious.)



What do you mean by disabled? Someone might want one in order to extend the distance they can ride, help them up nasty hills, or to take some of the strain off a damaged knee or ankle joint.

Some people might not realise how much they can improve their fitness, and think they 'need' an electric bike in order to do more than they can currently do...

And some might just fancy a bike that does some of the effort for them, without having to get a Motorbike licence.

Enough?


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## gpx001 (21 Nov 2007)

spire said:


> Why do people buy electric bikes?
> 
> (This question is not directed at the disabled, whose needs are obvious.)



Could also be to arrive at work in a not too sweaty state, or as a cheap form of transport - certainly beats the bus and the tin-tops. From what I've heard/read some of the lithium powered electrics have an assisted range of 30-40 miles.


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## mickle (21 Nov 2007)

I got mine coz my hips gives I gyp.


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## BobWales (23 Dec 2008)

Hills and knees... for me anyhow. Assisted is better in my opinion. My wife hurt herself by twisting the throttle of a direct drive electric bike when she wasn't clutching the brake - easily done. Pedal assist only works when you move the pedals - no pedal force is required though.

Both types of electric bike conversion kit are available at www.juicybike.co.uk PAS = Pedal Assist or PURE = No need to pedal. So long as the bike isn't doing more than 15Mph, and ridden by someone older than 14yrs, it's legal.


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