# training plan



## jamma (8 Aug 2016)

I have started doing this structured training plan i made to give a variety while riding the bike if any advice to change or improve sessions are welcome.

(If your here to say sh!t and tell me that the plan is sh!t just don't post a reply)


Monday: easy ride 1-2 hrs at a zone 2 hr
Tuesday: interval session 20 secs / 40 secs recovery 7 reps
Wednesday: easy ride 1-2hrs at zone 2 hr
Thursday: intervals session 20 sec /40 secs 7 reps 
Friday: easy ride 1-2 hrs at zone 2 hr
Saturday: endurance ride 3+hrs 
Sunday: day off


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## S-Express (8 Aug 2016)

What kind of events are you targeting - and when are you targeting them? Without some context, the plan doesn't mean anything.

Although on the face of it, you have potentially up to nine hours a week of general/easy riding, which seems excessive. Also, what is 'zone 2' in terms of where is it in relation to your max HR? Zones mean different things to different riders, so it's worth clarifying that.


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## midlife (8 Aug 2016)

Is Tuesday's and Thursday's ride 7 minutes duration 

Shaun


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## PhilDawson8270 (9 Aug 2016)

Intervals seem a bit easy. Generally recovery is considerably less than the effort.

Different sport, but playing rugby, with fitness training we generally do interval sprints at 30seconds + 5second recovery 10 reps


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Aug 2016)

What are you training for in z2? 

Do the interval days include a warmup(otherwise your effort isn't much longer than 7minutes)

What do you do on the second week?

What's the purpose?


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## Tin Pot (9 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> I have started doing this structured training plan i made to give a variety while riding the bike if any advice to change or improve sessions are welcome.
> 
> (If your here to say sh!t and tell me that the plan is sh!t just don't post a reply)
> 
> ...



I would favour longer intervals, 4mins on 4 mins off but in honesty I use hills for intervals on the road, I'd use a trainer for structured intervals.

Nothing wrong with plenty of z2 rides to build/maintain aerobic fitness.


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## jamma (9 Aug 2016)

Z2 is for aerobic fitness and its all for getting the speed up to 20mph avg so i can race.

The second and third week i do the same then take a rest week so mg fatigue reduces but i keep on spinning or easy exercise.

Intervals session does include a 20 min warm up and cool down


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Aug 2016)

Where'd you get your zones from? Is that based on 5 zones, 7 zones ,9 zones?


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## S-Express (9 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> Z2 is for aerobic fitness and its all for getting the speed up to 20mph avg so i can race.



Assuming your zones are the same as the BC zones, then riding at an all-day pace (ie zone 2) is not going to increase your speed by very much. I would be inclined to replace two of your easy/recovery rides with a 2-hour ride at zone 3 (ie tempo pace).



jamma said:


> The second and third week i do the same then take a rest week so mg fatigue reduces but i keep on spinning or easy exercise.



You don't need a 'rest week' on that training load. You have three days of recovery/easy riding, and you have sunday off (why Sunday?). Replace two of your three 'easy' days with tempo sessions, and take the other one off. You now get two rest days per week and a harder training load.



jamma said:


> Intervals session does include a 20 min warm up and cool down



What specifics are you targeting with these intervals? 20sec is a max effort. I would be targeting Vo2 intervals, of around 5 minutes. 20 seconds intervals are usually the 'icing on the cake' in the weeks before the racing season starts. As people have asked before, what are your targets?


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## Sharky (9 Aug 2016)

Bear in mind where we are in the season. Although still August, in reality, you only have about 8 weeks left to the end of the racing season (and probably only 4 weeks to the end of club 10's) and then we will be hit by dark nights and worsening weather. Need to have a long term plan to keep you going with enthusiasm through the dark months and then build up in the spring to achieve your goals.

Re average speeds - you can use average speeds as a control test on set training rides, but don't assume that you need to achieve a certain speed before you start racing. Many of my training rides are under 15mph avg, yet whet it comes to our weekly 10's, then I would be very disappointed if I didn't achieve 20mph+

If you haven't already this season, it would be a very good measure for next season, if you rode a couple of club 10's and get a bench mark time that you can work to improve next season.


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## jamma (9 Aug 2016)

Sharky said:


> Bear in mind where we are in the season. Although still August, in reality, you only have about 8 weeks left to the end of the racing season (and probably only 4 weeks to the end of club 10's) and then we will be hit by dark nights and worsening weather. Need to have a long term plan to keep you going with enthusiasm through the dark months and then build up in the spring to achieve your goals.
> 
> Re average speeds - you can use average speeds as a control test on set training rides, but don't assume that you need to achieve a certain speed before you start racing. Many of my training rides are under 15mph avg, yet whet it comes to our weekly 10's, then I would be very disappointed if I didn't achieve 20mph+
> 
> If you haven't already this season, it would be a very good measure for next season, if you rode a couple of club 10's and get a bench mark time that you can work to improve next season.



I have been at my clubs weekly 10 last one this week and first time i avg 18.1mph and now last week i avg 20.1mph but everyone i have talked to have said don't bother racing until you can keep a 20mph avg and thats some people on here aswell


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## S-Express (9 Aug 2016)

Racing isn't about being able to hold average speeds on your own though. I've never averaged 20mph on a solo ride, but it never stopped me placing in races.

Train to improve your threshold and VO2max figures and the ability to hold high levels of effort for relatively short periods of time, not to achieve some random average.


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## Sharky (9 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> I have been at my clubs weekly 10 last one this week and first time i avg 18.1mph and now last week i avg 20.1mph but everyone i have talked to have said don't bother racing until you can keep a 20mph avg and thats some people on here aswell


There are many levels in racing, so any advice needs to be taken in context, but you seem to have proven already that you can ride at 20mph+ and you are competing, so well done.


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## jamma (9 Aug 2016)

Well i have emailed the guy who puts a local crit race on to see if this thursday is the last one which is a bit odd cause there is lights around the circuit but the local club 10 is over after this thursday so need something to do and if i get spat out the back and lapped its a learning curve for me ☺


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## WelshJon (10 Aug 2016)

Im no expert many any stretch of the imagination but i imagine crit racing is about short bursts and sprints after each corner to stay in the pack. So intervals are definitely good. Sundays day off + Mondays easy ride might not be beneficial, maybe a day off tuesday and hit something harder on the monday ?


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## adamangler (21 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> I have started doing this structured training plan i made to give a variety while riding the bike if any advice to change or improve sessions are welcome.
> 
> (If your here to say sh!t and tell me that the plan is sh!t just don't post a reply)
> 
> ...



Nothing wrong with this type of plan, i do something similar as i only have 6-10 hours a week to get my cycling in.

Lets say you have somewhere in the region of 10 hours there.

You have 2 easy rides at zone 2 which are both short and not intense, a waste of time imo.
you also have only 1 day off, i would have more days off

rather than have 6 days a week cycling, half of it wasted on doing low intensity stuff have less days cycling and do it more intensely

There also doesnt seem to be any threshold work.

If you only have 10 hours a week you need to ramp up the intensity, no point trying to do long slow miles you havent the training volume

you dont say what the end goal is so it makes it hard to give an exact plan.

My week is more like this

Mon - Rest (total rest) do some upper body gym or core work if you want but nothing on the legs
Tuesday - Sprint intervals or hill reps, 1, 2 or 5 min intervals up to you - Its a V02 max session, just hurt yourself
Wed - Rest (as monday)
Thursday - 20 mins warm up then 20 min threshold intervals/time trial or 2 hours at sweetspot, again make it hard
Friday Rest 
Saturday Rest
Sunday - 4 hour ride, make it hard, yes its for endurance but that doesnt mean zone 2 all the time, makes no sense you dont have the volume in your week, i would just go by feel, make it hilly and smash the hills, or make it flat and make the last hour a time trial, throw in some mid ride sprints or v02 efforts, aim to smash a few strava segments along the way just mix it up. You can ride zone 2 for half the ride and the other half your going into zone 4/5 etc.

The rest days dont need to be 4 days a week, but i wouldnt ride (or should i say train) more than 5 days a week, the amount of rest days to ride days will completely depend on how hard you went and your levels of recovery. You can use recovery rides if you like but i cant be arsed going out for an hour at zone 1 just to say i had a recovery ride, they dont seem to be beneficial imo.

I train 3-4 days a week on average, occasionally 5, never more, but i just go on how my body feels, but what i do ensure is every session is hard. That said theres nothing wrong with having an easy ride or a week off occasionally infact you need it,

The other way to train is to do it in blocks, like a 3 month endurance block but you will need more time available if you want to to traditional base miles


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## MistaDee (21 Aug 2016)

Your training plan has no measurement or testing included as such how will you know that it is working.
Where is the threshold & time trial tests.
I would also want some cadence work as part of a training plan to help improve efficiency on the bike.


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## S-Express (21 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> I would also want some cadence work as part of a training plan to help improve efficiency on the bike.


I think 'cadence work'happens whenever you go for a ride.


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## MistaDee (21 Aug 2016)

S-Express said:


> I think 'cadence work'happens whenever you go for a ride.



Many people typically have a lower cadence than that required for them to be efficient on a bike as such it is often beneficial to work on this.


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## S-Express (21 Aug 2016)

Maybe, but an 'efficient' cadence will vary depending on an individual's fitness and physiology.


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## huwsparky (21 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> Many people typically have a lower cadence than that required for them to be efficient on a bike as such it is often beneficial to work on this.


Hmm. Do you have any kind of evidence to back up what your saying? Yes, we see pro's spinning at 95+ but I'd be very, very surprised if this were the same to an average Joe (99.9% of the population of this forum most probably)


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## ayceejay (21 Aug 2016)

'Cross season is almost upon us, jamma this is a great and fun way to improve bike handling, maintain fitness and get to know the scene.


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## MistaDee (21 Aug 2016)

huwsparky said:


> Hmm. Do you have any kind of evidence to back up what your saying? Yes, we see pro's spinning at 95+ but I'd be very, very surprised if this were the same to an average Joe (99.9% of the population of this forum most probably)



My own coach who is BC Level 3 certified and trains riders at national level has worked on cadence with me, over time this has resulted in improvements which can be seen in my training peaks data and performances. That's the evidence I personally believe.

I also would be surprised if the average Jo as you put it had a cadence of 90+ rpm however I would put it to you that the average Jo would not be starting threads discussing training plans either. They simply enjoy riding their bike


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## S-Express (21 Aug 2016)

What specific cadence work has your coach prescribed?


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## huwsparky (22 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> My own coach who is BC Level 3 certified and trains riders at national level has worked on cadence with me, over time this has resulted in improvements which can be seen in my training peaks data and performances. That's the evidence I personally believe.
> 
> I also would be surprised if the average Jo as you put it had a cadence of 90+ rpm however I would put it to you that the average Jo would not be starting threads discussing training plans either. They simply enjoy riding their bike


That's good, so your telling me you can provide evidence that spinning a higher cadence yields improvement for average cyclists in that case?

The OP i believe from other threads can only just get under 30 mins for a 10. I would suggest, that for him at least, that there is little to no benefit to concentrating on maintaining a high cadence. But, I suppose if you think he should then your entitled to give your opinion.


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## huwsparky (22 Aug 2016)

Also, the one thing I've noticed with cadence is that it naturally increases as fitness improves, well it has at least in my case and I never deliberately ride to any particular cadence. IMO, greater aerobic capacity will usually see cadence rise slightly anyway without wasting time concentrating on it.


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## MistaDee (22 Aug 2016)

huwsparky said:


> *That's good, so your telling me you can provide evidence that spinning a higher cadence yields improvement for average cyclists in that case?*
> 
> The OP i believe from other threads can only just get under 30 mins for a 10. I would suggest, that for him at least, that there is little to no benefit to concentrating on maintaining a high cadence. But, I suppose if you think he should then your entitled to give your opinion.



I take each thread as its own entity and do not review the entire history of the poster so would not be aware of the goals or objectives. The OP posted a training schedule and stated "any advice to change or improve sessions are welcome." and I gave some advice regarding what seems to be working really well for me along with the need to measure and test because without doing so you have no knowledge of the impact.
I do not believe that one training plan fits all and that everyone faces the same challenges and I alluded to that in my statement "*Many* people typically have a lower cadence than that required for them to be efficient on a bike as such it is often beneficial to work on this."
As the data of this individual has not been disclosed suggesting that an increase of cadence will have the desired results or biggest impact is similar to suggesting that any other task is the most effective manner to achieve a desired goal.


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## S-Express (22 Aug 2016)

So, what specific cadence work has your coach prescribed?


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## Tin Pot (22 Aug 2016)

@jamma 

How has your plan gone so far?

Did you make he crit race?

What are your training goals?


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## MistaDee (22 Aug 2016)

S-Express said:


> What specific cadence work has your coach prescribed?



I would typically do cadence pyramid type efforts.
Im not going to provide specific details of my training plan on a public forum as costs me money, if you wish to contribute to the costs then we can discuss this further.


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## adamangler (22 Aug 2016)

Cadence has been debated a lot lately. There are studys to show a lower cadence can be as if not more efficent as a higher cadence. I think it's more accepted now that cadence is an individual thing and depends on muscle fibre types along with a few other things. The point is no one really knows but I would sat cadence is not something to worry about for the OP as a beginner.

I think we all settle into a preffered cadence mines about 85 it's just what feels right.

I think we can overlook feel a lot, the human body is very clever at telling us what is right


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## huwsparky (22 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> I would typically do cadence pyramid type efforts.
> Im not going to provide specific details of my training plan on a public forum as costs me money, if you wish to contribute to the costs then we can discuss this further.


Lol. The irony.


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## screenman (22 Aug 2016)

I know turning a larger gear faster makes me go quicker. I also know to benefit from a plan that you need to stick to it.


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## S-Express (22 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> I would typically do cadence pyramid type efforts.
> Im not going to provide specific details of my training plan on a public forum as costs me money, if you wish to contribute to the costs then we can discuss this further.



It is impossible to train cadence in isolation and then claim that it is cadence which has brought about the improvement in your performance though. If you are doing pyramid efforts, then the increased aerobic demand is the key improver (and is what improves your performance), not specifically how fast you are spinning the pedals.

Just to add - providing details of an extract from your plan should be no issue at all. In isolation, giving details of one particular drill will be useless to anyone in terms of their use of it - and besides, there are free resources all over the internet. Talking generally about the drills and their desired outcome was all I was asking for. If I want training plans, I have my own from a few years back.


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## MistaDee (22 Aug 2016)

I lack a desire to get into a pointless debate regarding cadence although I do not recall ever suggesting that it was trained in isolation or that the efficiency I have gained from doing this kind of effort was specifically from how fast the legs were spinning. If you feel that undertaking cadence work as part of a training plan has no value then I would request that you state so and why to enable the OP to make an informed decision.
I also stated that I think the OP needs to undertake measurement to understand if the training is working, this way it can be adjusted to suit his own needs and goals. If you dispute this also feel free to educate the OP as to your reasoning
Providing extracts from my own plan is no issue at all, I simply do not wish to share it. As you correctly state there are free resources all over the internet however this does not mean they are suitable for all. Unlike many others I do not profess to be an expert on training which is why I employed the services of a qualified coach to ensure that I am gaining knowledge and experience that far surpasses that found on a typical cycle forum.


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## S-Express (22 Aug 2016)

MistaDee said:


> although I do not recall ever suggesting that it was trained in isolation or that the efficiency I have gained from doing this kind of effort was specifically from how fast the legs were spinning.



Well, if we accept that cadence is a term used to indicate _specifically_ how fast the legs_ are_ spinning (if you have a different definition, let's hear it), then your two quotes below suggest otherwise:



MistaDee said:


> I would also want some cadence work as part of a training plan to help improve efficiency on the bike.





MistaDee said:


> I gave some advice regarding what seems to be working really well for me



I'd be interested to understand how your 'efficiency' on the bike has improved using these cadence drills.




MistaDee said:


> If you feel that undertaking cadence work as part of a training plan has no value then I would request that you state so and why to enable the OP to make an informed decision.



I regard cadence as a by-product, not a training goal in itself. Time spent at intensity (or various intensities) is how most coaches measure training progression, and I imagine most coaches would suggest riding at whatever cadence is necessary in order to achieve the desired intensity for the desired length of time. Your view obviously differs, but you don't seem very keen on enlarging on your earlier comments unless we pay you first.


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## ayceejay (22 Aug 2016)

Can we assume that the young fella's goal is to ride a distance of ten miles at 20 mph consistently. just for the sake of argument. What would he need to do to achieve this? Is it a realistic goal


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## Cuchilo (22 Aug 2016)

ayceejay said:


> Can we assume that the young fella's goal is to ride a distance of ten miles at 20 mph consistently. just for the sake of argument. What would he need to do to achieve this? Is it a realistic goal


Yes it is a very realistic goal and i imagine if he keeps up with his club TT's he will be doing that kind of speed or better next season .


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## Tin Pot (22 Aug 2016)

ayceejay said:


> Can we assume that the young fella's goal is to ride a distance of ten miles at 20 mph consistently. just for the sake of argument. What would he need to do to achieve this? Is it a realistic goal



A bike.

A 20 mile stretch of road.


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## jamma (22 Aug 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> @jamma
> 
> How has your plan gone so far?
> 
> ...



I haven't done much of the plan this 2 week due to family holiday. No race think its finished until the winter series but thats the end goal before the summer series


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## Tin Pot (22 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> I haven't done much of the plan this 2 week due to family holiday. No race think its finished until the winter series but thats the end goal before the summer series



So crit racing is the goal?

Lots of high intensity then, Google trainerroad and criterium - that should get you going.

However as we're near the end of season I think the next six months would be best spent on base building, either lots of long z2, or 90% z2 and 10% z4/5. Indoor trainer is good for a specific high intensity session.


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## adamangler (22 Aug 2016)

ayceejay said:


> Can we assume that the young fella's goal is to ride a distance of ten miles at 20 mph consistently. just for the sake of argument. What would he need to do to achieve this? Is it a realistic goal



If this is his only goal, then i would suggest very simply riding 10 miles as fast and as hard as he can until he hits 20mph, theres no need for long zone 2 rides or intervals, he simply has to raise his threshold which will be achieved by riding at or above it for periods during this 10 miles.


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## Cuchilo (22 Aug 2016)

adamangler said:


> If this is his only goal, then i would suggest very simply riding 10 miles as fast and as hard as he can until he hits 20mph, theres no need for long zone 2 rides or intervals, he simply has to raise his threshold which will be achieved by riding at or above it for periods during this 10 miles.


It's not his goal at all . It was a comment made to him by someone who told him to not bother racing untill he can do that speed . Personally i think that person has given bad advice and think racing is the best form of training . If you're racing you're mixing with people faster than you and normally they give you good advice and tips rather than telling you to go away and get faster .


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## ayceejay (22 Aug 2016)

It is unclear what the goal is - I only suggested that 10 mile thing as a possible in an attempt to get something specific down as opposed to "just ride yer bike". Personally I think the just ride yer bike IS the best advice for a beginner and the specifics will come later but jamma seems to be looking for a fast track without stating clearly where he is heading,


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## adamangler (22 Aug 2016)

The problem is with no clear defined goal then simply "ride ya bike" is the best advice anyone can give.

Unless a specific goal is given then theres not much point in asking for a training plan.


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## jamma (22 Aug 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> So crit racing is the goal?
> 
> Lots of high intensity then, Google trainerroad and criterium - that should get you going.
> 
> However as we're near the end of season I think the next six months would be best spent on base building, either lots of long z2, or 90% z2 and 10% z4/5. Indoor trainer is good for a specific high intensity session.



Yes end goal is crit racing and does any9ne have any suggestions on a turbo before i just go to halfords and get a tacx smart trainer


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## huwsparky (22 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> Yes end goal is crit racing and does any9ne have any suggestions on a turbo before i just go to halfords and get a tacx smart trainer


Crit racing is great fun, you'll have a ball. Just don't use a bike you have any care for!


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## ayceejay (22 Aug 2016)

Jamma. I know this has been said before but the best or most expensive bike/wheels/ turbo trainer will not improve your performance in whatever kind of racing you prefer as much as doing it will


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## jamma (23 Aug 2016)

ayceejay said:


> Jamma. I know this has been said before but the best or most expensive bike/wheels/ turbo trainer will not improve your performance in whatever kind of racing you prefer as much as doing it will



I know that but i don't want to be looking at a wall while doing training at 9pm so a smart trainer with zwift will help


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## Tin Pot (23 Aug 2016)

jamma said:


> I know that but i don't want to be looking at a wall while doing training at 9pm so a smart trainer with zwift will help



Ive heard very good things about Zwift, and generally approve of the gamification of indoor training.

Myself I prefer to be out in the wind and rain, only used the turbo five times last winter/spring.


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## ayceejay (23 Aug 2016)

Turbo training is boring Jamma and no gadget will overcome that and after a while you will be back to boring. Why 9 pm?


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## gavroche (23 Aug 2016)

A friend of mine started cycling in his late fifties. He does between 7 to 10 miles a day , after work , and a long ride at weekends, maybe up to 40 miles . His method of training seems to work as he is now faster than me and can keep up with others 20 years younger. I think I will copy him ( except when it rains).


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## screenman (23 Aug 2016)

Not as


ayceejay said:


> Turbo training is boring Jamma and no gadget will overcome that and after a while you will be back to boring. Why 9 pm?



I disagree, watching TV or sitting for hours on forums is boring, being on a turbo doing specific sessions I feel are not.


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## Tin Pot (23 Aug 2016)

screenman said:


> Not as
> 
> 
> I disagree, watching TV or sitting for hours on forums is boring, being on a turbo doing specific sessions I feel are not.



Plus they are more efficient/effective.

I'm a huge proponent of turbo sessions, even through I do t do em


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## Cuchilo (23 Aug 2016)

I'd rather get up with the rising sun and knock out 20 miles before work than get on a turbo trainer . I don't do either but if i had too lost sleep would win !


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## adamangler (24 Aug 2016)

Bkool is great. Still I find its just as quick to go out on the bike than setup the trainer fans etc so only use it when it's dark or really bad weather


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## ayceejay (28 Aug 2016)

Now that we have discovered riding criterium is the objective I would say, since skill is a huge factor, that turbo training should be used only as back up and riding in a group out on the open road should take centre stage. Also in the general course of events there is one break after another and this can be hard on a body that doesn't have basic fitness so we are back to that Jamma - sorry.


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## adamangler (28 Aug 2016)

Ive found there is a big difference between using something such as bkool or zwift vs a standard trainer.

I must have used my old turbo half a dozen times in two years, i would rather ride outside in the dark/wind/rain/snow than use it.

However since getting bkool, i use it even now at least once a week, its handy to just jump on, its interesting to me, you can race solo or with friends, in leagues etc. I do enjoy it but then i enjoy gaming as well. I can imagine if you dont enjoy gaming or stats then it may not be for you. But i really enjoy sometimes more than going out on the bike!


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