# Really Steep Hills - What's the point?



## Bill Gates (10 Nov 2009)

I can see that for some cyclists there is the challenge of getting up a really steep hill without climbing off and walking. However the lightest rider in a group will nearly always get to the top first so few surprises there.

You can put the same amount of power down on the flat for longer if you want, so if the challenge doesn't do it for you (like me), then where is the training advantage?


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## ttcycle (10 Nov 2009)

ah but Bill, the short answer is it trains different energy systems when going up a hill rather than being on the flat and can be great for muscular endurance and building that up.

Plus, not always is it a case of the lightest getting to the top the quickest.


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## Brahan (10 Nov 2009)

Maybe if there are two riders of equal weight and power who are facing each other in a race sutuation then perhaps the one who has more hours of climbing under their belt would have a greater chance of coming out on top. Maybe their technique could be better? 

From a personal point of view - I couldn't even climb Kidd's Hill on my compact geared bike last year, so my first challenge was to ride to the top of it without getting off. Happily I managed it.


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## I am Spartacus (10 Nov 2009)

ttcycle said:


> ah but Bill, the short answer is it trains different energy systems when going up a hill rather than being on the flat and can be great for muscular endurance and building that up.
> 
> Plus, not always is it a case of the lightest getting to the top the quickest.



Maybe silly 30%ers are best avoided... but who wants to be 1 dimensional either?
You are going to come unstuck in a lumpy 50mile road race if your body hasnt been prepped for hill strategies.


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## MacB (10 Nov 2009)

the problem for me is the downhills that always accompany them, cowardice or whatever, but I just don't enjoy them that much. I certainly wouldn't want to ride a hilly area all the time, I enjoy tooling along on a rolling landscape more than anything else.


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## ttcycle (10 Nov 2009)

MacB said:


> the problem for me is the downhills that always accompany them, cowardice or whatever, but I just don't enjoy them that much. I certainly wouldn't want to ride a hilly area all the time, I enjoy tooling along on a rolling landscape more than anything else.



Ahh really?

I struggle up hills (and I am pretty light) but do it for the training and also for that wonderful downhill bit where the road is clear and you can zip down it super fast.


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## MacB (10 Nov 2009)

ttcycle said:


> Ahh really?
> 
> I struggle up hills (and I am pretty light) but do it for the training and also for that wonderful downhill bit where the road is clear and you can zip down it super fast.



well being hefty I can freewheel/pedal at quite alarmingly high speeds downhill, but only on roads I know very well. The rest of the time I'm more concerned about my brake pads and the amount of heat going into the rims.


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## I am Spartacus (10 Nov 2009)

Thread is about going up not down, lads


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## ttcycle (10 Nov 2009)

MacB said:


> The rest of the time I'm more concerned about my brake pads and the amount of heat going into the rims.



MacB- let go and see where the wheels take you. I understand if it's a busy road then fair enough there is no point tearing down it but letting go of that control can be fantastically rewarding in some situations.


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## ttcycle (10 Nov 2009)

spartacus, when things go up, they must by nature of physics come back down again

PS I am not a lad...!


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## jimboalee (10 Nov 2009)

If a cyclist's flat road powerMax is 375 Watts, that will equate to approx 40 kmh round a track.
Boardman's hour record was about 450 Watts.

That kind of power is exerted on a hill, but in a gear that is low down the range on the bike.

To sustain 450 Watts round the track emulating Chris, the cyclist would need something like a 140" gear, 57T to 11T setup at 85 cadence, or 55 ring and 11 sprocket at 88 cadence.

[I have seen this. When Chris did wind tunnel tests at MIRA.]

For the likes of me, to get 375 Watts of power output but with 60 cadence on an everyday roadrace bike, I'll need a 59 tooth chainring to whip along at 40 kmh.

On steep hills, rolling the pedals round at 60 cadence doing 6 mph, requires 375 Watts but without needing a 59 tooth chainring.


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## MacB (10 Nov 2009)

jimboalee said:


> If a cyclist's flat road powerMax is 375 Watts, that will equate to approx 40 kmh round a track.
> Boardman's hour record was about 450 Watts.
> 
> That kind of power is exerted on a hill, but in a gear that is low down the range on the bike.
> ...



thank goodness for that, there was me worried it all might be a bit complicated, that clears things up nicely


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## GrasB (10 Nov 2009)

It's a about coping with high load conditions, it turns out I'm damn good at climbing compared to most people & often will turn around & do the longer climbs around here in the middle of a ride just to get more climbing in. The net result is I seem to be able to power though head winds & deal more easily with heavy loads. 



ttcycle said:


> Plus, not always is it a case of the lightest getting to the top the quickest.


+1 at the best part of 13st I'm not exactly the lightest lad about, however I'm quite often one of the first to the top.


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## ttcycle (10 Nov 2009)

+1

It's also about training your body to work harder and do it more efficiently..plus, it also trains up the lactate threshold ie the zone where you feel as if your legs are aching like mad and you're sucking in the air like there's no tommorow - so you can push harder and be more efficient before you get to your lactate threshold- this is essential for races etc. You can only train that system by pushing yourself hard enough and that for me is going up and down some hills...still not seeing too much improvement myself...lol


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## Bill Gates (10 Nov 2009)

Back in the days when I was winning races, invariably I went comparatively better on those days that were harder (windier, tougher courses etc.). I put that down to upper body strength and sheer bloodymindedness. I won a championship 25 on a day when the trees were bent over double in a gale. 

However I never ever sought out any steep hills to climb in training as I couldn't see what good it would do me. Of course I trained on hills and have even won hilly time trials so it's not as though I couldn't climb. I did do our club hill climb one year and came 2nd. The winner weighed about 65kgs and to my knowledge never did any other form of racing. 

Straining to get up a steep hill @ less than 40 rpm is not for me.


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## a_n_t (10 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> Straining to get up a steep hill @ less than 40 rpm is not for me.



good job we're not all you then


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## ColinJ (10 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> Straining to get up a steep hill @ less than 40 rpm is not for me.


That's why low gears were invented!  

I'm currently overweight and use a 30/28 bottom gear. When I was somewhat fitter I used 30/26 and when I was reasonably fit I had a 30/23 in reserve but rarely used it.


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## Bill Gates (10 Nov 2009)

ColinJ said:


> That's why low gears were invented!
> 
> I'm currently overweight and use a 30/28 bottom gear. When I was somewhat fitter I used 30/26 and when I was reasonably fit I had a 30/23 in reserve but rarely used it.




Hmmmm.

See your point. The bottom gear on my Road bike for racing hilly time trials was 42/17


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## Bill Gates (10 Nov 2009)

ttcycle said:


> +1
> 
> It's also about training your body to work harder and do it more efficiently..plus, it also trains up the lactate threshold ie the zone where you feel as if your legs are aching like mad and you're sucking in the air like there's no tommorow - so you can push harder and be more efficient before you get to your lactate threshold- this is essential for races etc. *You can only train that system by pushing yourself hard enough and that for me is going up and down some hills..*.still not seeing too much improvement myself...lol



LT is I think supposedly 25 mile TT race pace. It should be quite possible to do this in training on flat roads. You are also replicating TT position and technique whereas on a steep climb the technique for me involves out of the saddle efforts pulling on the bars


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## ColinJ (10 Nov 2009)

And to answer your original question...

To avoid steep climbs round here, I'd have to stick to the same busy valley A-roads all the time. I prefer the scenery and quieter roads on the hilltops and I don't let steep hills stop me getting up to them. In fact, I actually search out steep hills because I enjoy the challenge of riding up them. 

Depending on my fitness level/weight I choose a gear low enough to let me use a reasonable cadence (usually > 50 rpm unless the hill is really steep).

I admit that I'd like to spend more time riding on flatter roads, but there aren't too many quiet ones round here. I'd have to do at least a 60 mile round trip just to get to them.


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## jimboalee (10 Nov 2009)

I remember watching the Wincanton go up Holme Moss; the Milk race and the Kellogs go up Porlock; the PruTour go up Constitution Hill; the Rochester Classic go up Boxley.

The riders were out of the saddle pulling and pushing ( except for Constitution Hill where some got off and ran ) to keep in contention.

I cannot imagine for one moment they trained for that anywhere but on steep hills.


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## lukesdad (10 Nov 2009)

You wouldn t want to live where I live then BG.


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## Matty (11 Nov 2009)

jimboalee said:


> I remember watching the Wincanton go up Holme Moss; the Milk race and the Kellogs go up *Porlock*; the PruTour go up Constitution Hill; the Rochester Classic go up Boxley.
> 
> The riders were out of the saddle pulling and pushing ( except for Constitution Hill where some got off and ran ) to keep in contention.
> 
> I cannot imagine for one moment they trained for that anywhere but on steep hills.



I recall trying quite hard to get a car up this crazy hill. Especially the daft turn.


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## jimboalee (12 Nov 2009)

Matty said:


> I recall trying quite hard to get a car up this crazy hill. Especially the daft turn.



A bike hire shop in Barnstaple rented me a bike for the very purpose.

I chose a 'tourer', which I have detected on the net was a Trek 520. ( back in 1992 ).
I chose it due to it's 28 ring and 28 sprocket.


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## PC_Arcade (12 Nov 2009)

I can't imagine cycling up constitution hill, the road surface is terrible for one and those cobbles are DAMN slippery in the wet / winter!


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## Randochap (13 Nov 2009)

The hills are alive. 11,154 feet of em.


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## ttcycle (14 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> LT is I think supposedly 25 mile TT race pace. It should be quite possible to do this in training on flat roads. You are also replicating TT position and technique whereas on a steep climb the technique for me involves out of the saddle efforts pulling on the bars



Hi Bill

this may be a possibility if you have access to quiet roads without too many traffic lights but this is not the case where I live and I don't ride hills the same way you would - I tend to stay seated in the saddle.

Sounds like you were a pretty strong cyclist in the racing days..envious of your hill climbing ability.

For me and main reason I do it is to improve technique to become a better all rounder


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