# Riding a smaller framed bike?



## Boon 51 (27 Jun 2014)

Just been thinking about getting another bike and wondered what would I gain by having a smaller framed bike.
I had heard that many of the big racers like Contador etc use a smaller frame bike.
So what are the gains or not gains of having a smaller frame bike?
Cheers


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## HLaB (27 Jun 2014)

As long as its not too small I believe a smaller bike feels more agile and you obviously have a slight weight saving.


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## steveindenmark (27 Jun 2014)

I was talking to by LBS about 30 minutes ago. One of his customers is doing a charity ride from Copenhagen to Paris. It's a big affair and part of the entry fee is a new Bianchi bike. It was suggested that he used a road bike 2cm smaller than his usual road bike. It worked so well for him that he is now selling his usual bike and keeping the Bianchi.

http://www.team-rynkeby.com.au/film-7.aspx?videoId=xdZCHUM_lac

Steve


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## JasonHolder (27 Jun 2014)

If you can handle saddle/bar drop then do it.


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## cyberknight (27 Jun 2014)

Found this on velo news

Q.Nick,
I have often been told by many “expert” fitters that if you need a 14cm stem (referring specifically to the photos of Ivan Basso’s bike) and lots of setback on your saddle, then you are riding a frame that is too small. However, almost every pro bike I look at shows very long stems, lots of setback, and huge drop from the saddle to the bars. I know that their bikes fit them, but why not ride a larger frame and have more “standard” length saddle setbacks and stem lengths?

_— Dave B._

A.Dave,
Great question. Most important is that if your fit is working for you, stick with it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, pointing to pro riders is an exercise in futility. For some reason, many riders think that because a pro rides a certain piece of equipment or uses it a certain way, that they should emulate the pros. That’s ridiculous.

The truth is that many pros ride terrible positions. That said, many of them get along just fine doing that for their entire careers, so what does my or anyone else’s assessment matter? Ever see a photo of Sean Kelly racing? He rode what most consider to be too small a frame. That didn’t keep him from dominating the classics and grand tours.

In more modern times, pros often use a smaller frame that a similarly sized recreational rider because they want to ride a big drop to the handlebars. As head tubes continue to grow for a given frame size, pros are forced onto smaller frames to maintain their positions. Drop is the big difference between the average pro and the average recreational rider. The rest is a function of that difference.

Pros don’t necessarily run more setback than you or me, it’s just that their saddles are farther back on the rails because seat tube angles tend to steepen as frame sizes go down. The longer stems are there to make up for shorter top tubes on smaller bikes.

The real lesson here though is to stop looking to pro riders for cues on what we should be riding. That thinking assumes too many things, the most obvious being that a given pro has a good position. It cracks me up when fans want to know the measurements of their favorite pro. Those numbers are only meaningful to two people: 1. The rider, and 2. The mechanics whose job it is to recreate the position on multiple bikes.

No matter what, trying to mimic a pro’s position is silly because it means that you’re likely denying what your body would actually benefit from. Doing so can actually be a performance inhibitor


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...e-pros-on-position_207609#Dz5B8KiDFdTsvm7z.99


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## JasonHolder (27 Jun 2014)

That isnt strictly true^ 

I've never heard of anyone having anything but good results from doing what the pros do. Its more to do with toning what the pros do, down" to be more inline with our own ability that is the crucial factor.


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## Boon 51 (27 Jun 2014)

The bike I sat on was a BMC and had a 51 size frame( I'm normally a 54/53 frame) so its one size smaller, the saddle was way to high for me by several inches but with my foot on a stool I could sit on the bike and move it around. I have to say it felt better than my other bike which is a medium frame size.
It did feel really comfortable but I was only sitting and not riding but it did feel better none the the less.
I'm going to have another look tonight.
It might be the BMC's are a tad bigger anyway but the bike felt good.
Thanks for the replies so far.


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Jun 2014)

I ride a 54 frame, second hand and I liked the bike a lot, where I'm usually a 56. Its no big deal really IMO, I can get comfy down on it and still potter along on the tops in no discomfort and I'm by no means a supple racing snake of a figure.

all I did do was flip the stem to give a slightly higher bar and I do have my saddle a good way back.


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## cyberknight (27 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> That isnt strictly true^
> 
> I've never heard of anyone having anything but good results from doing what the pros do. Its more to do with toning what the pros do, down" to be more inline with our own ability that is the crucial factor.


Which is pretty much what it says anyway and we all know you want to be" pro "
Bit hard for me anyway ! i need a 52 frame for a "normal fit", a 54 cm i need an 80 mm stem and you dont see to many smaller bikes about without hunting around a bit .My current nice bike they had to order in specially after i tried a number of shops within a 30 mile radius .


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## Smokin Joe (27 Jun 2014)

Frame size goes in and out of fashion. Look back at riders from the sixties to the eighties and they had very little seatpost showing, go back further than that and smaller frames were said to be better. In my view provided your position on the bike fits you it doesn't matter whether it is achieved with six inches of seatpost showing and a 10cm stem or a foot of post sticking up and a 13cm stem. You will lose a bit of weight with a smaller frame but you'll add some back with a longer stem and seatpost.


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## MacB (27 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> That isnt strictly true^
> 
> I've never heard of anyone having anything but good results from doing what the pros do. Its more to do with toning what the pros do, down" to be more inline with our own ability that is the crucial factor.



Nonsense, just because you've never heard of it doesn't make it an instant fact. There are lots of factors to consider but generally the older/less flexible/fit you are then the further from the pro style set up you want to be. If you want the bars up high then you actually need to go bigger on a frame rather than the reverse. As the bars rise they will get closer to the saddle as a result of the HT angle.

For many of us if we want to ride in comfort and be able to use all parts of a drop bar then bigger frames, longer head tubes and shallower drops are a help. Have a look at the geometry specs on any of the big sites for 58cm and above bikes.


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## Crankarm (27 Jun 2014)

MacB said:


> Nonsense, just because you've never heard of it doesn't make it an instant fact. There are lots of factors to consider but generally the older/less flexible/fit you are then the further from the pro style set up you want to be. If you want the bars up high then you actually need to go bigger on a frame rather than the reverse. As the bars rise they will get closer to the saddle as a result of the HT angle.
> 
> For many of us if we want to ride in comfort and be able to use all parts of a drop bar then bigger frames, longer head tubes and shallower drops are a help. Have a look at the geometry specs on any of the big sites for 58cm and above bikes.



Welcome back.


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## Boon 51 (28 Jun 2014)

Just had another sit on the BMC bike size 51 and it did feel different but in a good way. I'm back in the UK in just over a weeks time so I will call into evanscycles and see if they have a 51/52 frame demo bike I could try.


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## LimeBurn (28 Jun 2014)

I used to ride a 58cm Allez and swapped to a 56cm Focus Izalco, I liked the look of the larger bike but the comfort of the new position is night and day - lovely.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Jun 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Frame size goes in and out of fashion. Look back at riders from the sixties to the eighties and they had very little seatpost showing, go back further than that and smaller frames were said to be better. In my view provided your position on the bike fits you it doesn't matter whether it is achieved with six inches of seatpost showing and a 10cm stem or a foot of post sticking up and a 13cm stem. You will lose a bit of weight with a smaller frame but you'll add some back with a longer stem and seatpost.


This. Fashion has a lot to answer for, that and the trend for manufacturers to only manufacture the minimum number of frame sizes they can get away with.

I've gone off the look of compact and semi-compact frames on the road. I simply prefer the 'gate' look of a bike with minimal seatpost. I'm nominally a 57/58cm frame size but the last two bikes I've built/bought have been 60cm and 62cm. Both fit like gloves just like the bikes they are replacing but the fit is achieved by different means, and they look more old skool.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Jun 2014)

LimeBurn said:


> I used to ride a 58cm Allez and swapped to a 56cm Focus Izalco, I liked the look of the larger bike but the comfort of the new position is night and day - lovely.


And if you had swapped from a 58cm Allez to a 56cm Allez?

Likely a lot more to the change you've experienced than the simple change in size.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Jun 2014)

MacB said:


> For many of us if we want to ride in comfort and be able to use all parts of a drop bar then bigger frames, longer head tubes and shallower drops are a help. Have a look at the geometry specs on any of the big sites for 58cm and above bikes.


Head down arse up, top of bars waaay below the height of the saddle may be great when riding in the pro peleton but it can be a pain in the neck, quite literally, when riding in traffic and makes little sense for day-after-day riding by recreational or touring cyclists who might actually want to look at the scenery!


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## JasonHolder (28 Jun 2014)

I've just bought a 50cm allez elite. Now all that is missing is a gadget with cadence and HR to watch thus replacing the boring green countryside I'm never going to see anymore.


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## uclown2002 (28 Jun 2014)

Heard you first time Jason!


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## JasonHolder (28 Jun 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Heard you first time Jason!


Lol internet sucks here!


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## cyberknight (28 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> I've just bought a 50cm allez elite. Now all that is missing is a gadget with cadence and HR to watch thus replacing the boring green countryside I'm never going to see anymore.


http://chrisfroomelookingatstems.tumblr.com/


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## LimeBurn (28 Jun 2014)

Don't know because I didn't 


GrumpyGregry said:


> And if you had swapped from a 58cm Allez to a 56cm Allez?
> 
> Likely a lot more to the change you've experienced than the simple change in size.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> I've just bought a 50cm allez elite. Now all that is missing is a gadget with cadence and HR to watch thus replacing the boring green countryside I'm never going to see anymore.


I did 21.75 miles in 6 and a half hours.
Got loads of pictures to show, found several entrances to woods didn't know where there, learned you can flavor syrup from the seeds of a weed.
Wouldn't want to ride like this everyday, but it was a great day out.


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## ufkacbln (28 Jun 2014)

Way back in the 1990s there was a gentleman called Mike Burrows who invented the Lotus type 108:










He then moved to Giant and along came the Giant OCR / TCR compact frame concept


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## JasonHolder (28 Jun 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> Way back in the 1990s there was a gentleman called Mike Burrows who invented the Lotus type 108:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Take my money


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jun 2014)

The first commercially available compact frame was built by Dave Lloyd, sometime back in the eighties I believe. It looked rather weird by the standards of the day and never took off.


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## ufkacbln (29 Jun 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> The first commercially available compact frame was built by Dave Lloyd, sometime back in the eighties I believe. It looked rather weird by the standards of the day and never took off.




There were other oddities as well without takingthis off topic

Does anyone else remember the fashion for smaller front wheels to lower the front and become more aerodynamic?






That went to extremes!

Moser rode a customised "Big Wheel" when he competed his Veterans Hour record


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jun 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> There were other oddities as well without takingthis off topic
> 
> Does anyone else remember the fashion for smaller front wheels to lower the front and become more aerodynamic?
> 
> ...


The late eighties and early nineties saw plenty of time trial frames with the top tube sloping to the front. Smaller front wheels were banned by the UCI in yet another move to ensure bicycle development stayed as far back in the dark ages as they could keep it.


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## ufkacbln (29 Jun 2014)

I remember the long standing Graeme Obree saga where the UCI changed the bike design rules to ban every bike and position he used!

On one occasion they altered the position between the front of the seat and bottom bracket over the lunch break........ so that the bike was "legal" for the morning's hour session, but illegal for the afternoon one.

IIRC there is a wonderful "up yours" story where Obree went out, bought a child's saddle, lopped off the front with a hacksaw and then presented the bike in a condition that passed the rules.


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