# Chris Boardman has sold the car



## avecReynolds531 (3 Jul 2020)

Road.cc report: https://road.cc/content/news/chris-boardman-has-sold-his-car-275119


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2020)

> “Without insurance, fuel and maintenance, I am already saving £800 a month.”


I don't spend that a year running my car


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## theclaud (3 Jul 2020)

Good on him. And good to see him invoking a hierarchy of measures. 

_“Either you turn off the traffic, take the traffic speed down, reduce the volume on roads – or create separate space for cyclists,” he says, explaining the ways in which a safer environment could be achieved. _


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## mjr (3 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I don't spend that a year running my car


How much do you spend, then? I think I spend £25/mo insurance, £60/mo fuel and £30/mo maintenance and that's a 9yo 3-door mostly parked off-road in a small Norfolk village. I expect a bigger family car in the Wirral might cost much more on all three.


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## midlife (3 Jul 2020)

Depends if you add in the cost of lease / HP / finance. The cost for my 2 cars is about £650 a month. Something expensive could easily be £700 a month.


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

If only the message gets through to the masses.


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## itboffin (3 Jul 2020)

i went car free for years and am considering it again now even though my nearest shop is 7 hilly miles away.


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## Drago (3 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I don't spend that a year running my car


Ditto, my 2+ tonne luxury SUV dinnae cost me that in a year but I guess Boardman's diamond encrusted Hummer H1 costs a bit to insure.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2020)

mjr said:


> How much do you spend, then? I think I spend £25/mo insurance, £60/mo fuel and £30/mo maintenance and that's a 9yo 3-door mostly parked off-road in a small Norfolk village. I expect a bigger family car in the Wirral might cost much more on all three.


£15 insurance, £15 VED & about £10 fuel per month, £40 MOT a year, £50 a year service, £120 in 6 years on tyres, so work that out. 

How do you manage to spend £30 a month on maintenance?


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## dodgy (3 Jul 2020)

Bloody hell folks. Of course some cars cost more or less to run than others. Chris is talking about *his* costs, not yours 

From memory, think he had a large Audi or Skoda at one time, not sure. His dad drives an old VW Golf.


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## Bazzer (3 Jul 2020)

I am guessing he has some flexibility travelling from Liverpool to Manchester and vice versa. 
Commuting on that line is an awful experience. Forget about taking a full size bike any time between 7:30-10:00am, from any stations other than Liverpool. And from 3:45-6:30pm from Manchester don't even think about it, unless you catch the "stopper", which takes over an hour to travel 30 miles. 
It is one of the lines which had the joy (not) of being within the Northern Fail franchise. So, IME trains rarely arrive on time, are frequently cancelled and are commonly packed.


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## dodgy (3 Jul 2020)

This part of NW England and Wirral in particular is terrible for trains. So if he can make it work, many (but not most) can make it work.
He lives in Heswall, his nearest train station is called Heswall, but really it's a few miles out. Beeching had a big impact here, but at least we got the Wirral (mud) Way out of it.


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> £15 insurance, £15 VED & about £10 fuel per month, £40 MOT a year, £50 a year service, £120 in 6 years on tyres, so work that out.
> 
> How do you manage to spend £30 a month on maintenance?



£350+ for a full service without many extras is not unusual, I do 20,000 miles a year in my car, our second car does 10,000.


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## Drago (3 Jul 2020)

Volvo XC90 2.4 D5 185 R Design SE:

Insurance - 205
Tax - 325
Fuel - 35 every 2nd month, so 210 a year
Do my own maintenance, so let's say 100 in parts, and that's generous, it's probably nearer 50 or 60 sheets.

Total = *835* a year.

OK, ever 3 or 4 years there'll be bigger ticket spends like tyres etc, but i own it outright so there are no repayments to make. I can genuinely say my running costs in the typical year are more or less what Boardman was somehow spending a month.

But nice to see him back riding on the road again.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> £350+ for a full service without many extras is not unusual, I do 20,000 miles a year in my car, our second car does 10,000.


I'll wager you don't pay £350 for a service


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'll wager you don't pay £350 for a service



I do my own, but as you know I am in the motor trade so get to see what people are paying, my brother was pleased with his £360 bill for a service on his 2009 Mazda a few weeks ago.


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

Of course depreciation should be factored into any costs of running a vehicle, I buy well and sell well and normally that cost me on average £1200 to £1500 a year.


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## Gunk (3 Jul 2020)

Our 12 year old Mini Clubman diesel £120 a year insurance, £20 a year tax, £150 a year MOT and maintenance and about £40 a month in fuel. Depreciation now minimal about £250 a year.

So £85 a month, and it’s a really nice car.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Of course depreciation should be factored into any costs of running a vehicle, I buy well and sell well and normally that cost me on average £1200 to £1500 a year.


Agreed but I suspect Mr Boardman hadn't taken that into account, but as you say buying & selling well its the key. Last 5 cars I've sold for more than I bought them for after also running them for a few months. But I play at the cheap end of market & add value by fixing things which take time & not money which fit me is not accountable


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> I do my own, but as you know I am in the motor trade so get to see what people are paying, my brother was pleased with his £360 bill for a service on his 2009 Mazda a few weeks ago.


My first job was in the 'trade', I started as a 'saturday lad' at 14 in 76,and then worked all the summer cleaning/polishing. new cars for the 1st of August then cleaning/valeting all the ones taken in part exchange, same again in 77 til I started 'full time' in 78 and went to tech passing my 1st year with 'Distinctions' and a recommendation for the 'Technician' level 2nd year instead of the 'MVCS' 'grease monkey' level. At 17 I was servicing prestigious (SAAB) cars totally unsupervised and the 'Service Manager' said "Ah there's no need for you to go to college" There is a long story but suffice it to say I'm glad my life took a different direction but it taught me that all cars are a 'money pit'


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> My first job was in the 'trade', I started as a 'saturday lad' at 14 in 76,and then worked all the summer cleaning/polishing. new cars for the 1st of August then cleaning/valeting all the ones taken in part exchange, same again in 77 til I started 'full time' in 78 and went to tech passing my 1st year with 'Distinctions' and a recommendation for the 'Technician' level 2nd year instead of the 'MVCS' 'grease monkey' level. At 17 I was servicing prestigious (SAAB) cars totally unsupervised and the 'Service Manager' said "Ah there's no need for you to go to college" There is a long story but suffice it to say I'm glad my life took a different direction but it taught me that all cars are a 'money pit'



Bit different for me I was mechanicing at 15, working for myself at 19 and got my first car site a year later, by the time I was 23 I had two sites, full time staff and was turning 500 cars a year, 10 years in I got rid of everything moved up north and now get payed to play with dents and glass, still getting a lot of pleasure but with no stress. This is my 49 year in the trade.


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

I should add that there are times when I wish I had chosen a softer career path.


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## LeetleGreyCells (3 Jul 2020)

I wonder how much Boardman will be paying in rail fares for the year when going out of his locality, and if that will be cheaper for him. Train tickets are very expensive in this country. I hope going car-free works for him. Saying that, the article says he's got rid of his car - that doesn't mean he doesn't have access to a car when he needs it. 

I would love to go car-free, but it's not practical currently and besides my wife would never go for it


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## avecReynolds531 (3 Jul 2020)

This year is my 23rd without a car. I was influenced early by northern European cycling infrastructure, and could never take sitting in a traffic jam. Plus, the love of the bike, not just as a sport, but as practical transport, from when I was a tot 'til now, meant it was an easy decision- one I've never regretted.


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Bit different for me I was mechanicing at 15, working for myself at 19 and got my first car site a year later, by the time I was 23 I had two sites, full time staff and was turning 500 cars a year, 10 years in I got rid of everything moved up north and now get payed to play with dents and glass, still getting a lot of pleasure but with no stress. This is my 49 year in the trade.


So you're only 4 years older than me then, I started at 14 though. Basically the entire 'motor trade' is a con, the number of times I've heard the term "I had his legs away" regarding what profit they'd made is unreal. It taught me that I'd never own a car even when my Father died and Mum tried to give me his car (a 4-5 year old Rover 620i 'fastback' Coupe) I told her "What do I want with a Car" 

I've had nothing but Cycles as my transport since 85 although a girlfiend of mine had a car (Peugeot 205) that I was a passenger in (and drove home 200 miles, after she hurt her knee whilst we were camping up in the Lake District, on L plates) for a few years til we split up.


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## screenman (3 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> So you're only 4 years older than me then, I started at 14 though. Basically the entire 'motor trade' is a con, the number of times I've heard the term "I had his legs away" regarding what profit they'd made is unreal. It taught me that I'd never own a car even when my Father died and Mum tried to give me his car (a 4-5 year old Rover 620i 'fastback' Coupe) I told her "What do I want with a Car"
> 
> I've had nothing but Cycles as my transport since 85 although a girlfiend of mine had a car (Peugeot 205) that I was a passenger in (and drove home 200 miles, after she hurt her knee whilst we were camping up in the Lake District, on L plates) for a few years til we split up.



Do not listen to all the talk about money, the motor trade has a very low profit to turnover percentage, the guy that made £1,000 on a car forgot to tell you it cost him most of that to prep and sell it. I would hate to be without a car, my life would be no where near as busy and I like busy.


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## Drago (3 Jul 2020)

When my Dad bought himself a new car and one for Mrs D, he managed to hammer the dealer down from £77,000 each to £59,000 each. 18 grand off list and they still made a profit. They had used ones on the forecourt a few months old with a sticker price more than the old man was able to buy them for new. Pandemic readjustment notwithstanding, theres no shortage of profit to be had for those bold enough to try it.


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## raleighnut (3 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Do not listen to all the talk about money, the motor trade has a very low profit to turnover percentage, the guy that made £1,000 on a car forgot to tell you it cost him most of that to prep and sell it. I would hate to be without a car, my life would be no where near as busy and I like busy.


I never mentioned the salesmen who 'Made a grand on a car' although that's a 'trade' minimum on a 'motor' (I've come across the odd 'Arthur Daley' though) and yes 'premises' are expensive.
But, the motor trade is a complete rip off, the 20-21st century version of a horse market where you're sold a broken down 'nag' as a 'thoroughbred'


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## mjr (3 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> Volvo XC90 2.4 D5 185 R Design SE:
> 
> Insurance - 205
> Tax - 325


With that low insurance on that big a car, you can tell you're a retired ex copper living in Poshshire, not a 51 year old government commissioner living in the Wirral!


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> I never mentioned the salesmen who 'Made a grand on a car' although that's a 'trade' minimum on a 'motor' (I've come across the odd 'Arthur Daley' though) and yes 'premises' are expensive.
> But, the motor trade is a complete rip off, the 20-21st century version of a horse market where you're sold a broken down 'nag' as a 'thoroughbred'



I completely disagree, 2% profit on turnover is considered a good deal at the moment. Premises are just the very beginning of the cost of selling a car, do you consider a pint of beer in a pub a rip off or the an apple in a shop both have bigger percentage margins than cars. A grand maybe starting point, vat man has £200, prep £300, advertising £100 warranty £100 etc.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> When my Dad bought himself a new car and one for Mrs D, he managed to hammer the dealer down from £77,000 each to £59,000 each. 18 grand off list and they still made a profit. They had used ones on the forecourt a few months old with a sticker price more than the old man was able to buy them for new. Pandemic readjustment notwithstanding, theres no shortage of profit to be had for those bold enough to try it.



The profit of any came from the manufacturer, or I expect the dealer wanting to clear some heavy stock they were committed to buying from the manufacturer, dealer max starting point in any new vehicle is 15% after that they are selling below cost and sometimes need to do so. Profit as you know is what comes at the very end after all tax etc is paid, dealers are losing money and cutting staff everywhere, it is sad to see youngsters with families being given their cards.


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> do you consider a pint of beer in a pub a rip off


Yep, totally overpriced.

BTW I never originally mentioned car sales but that is a minefield too'


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## Bobario (4 Jul 2020)

That's my local Halfords. I don't go in there very often but if I do I'll keep a eye out for him and say hello. Good on the lad for putting his money where his mouth is. I've been thinking of ditching the car for a while, but I would miss my mountain biking days out so have kept hold of it for now. And I've no idea how he gets from Heswall to Manchester on the train without it being a pain in the arse. It means at least one change of trains and a bike ride. Or two changes and a shorter ride.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Yep, totally overpriced.
> 
> BTW I never originally mentioned car sales but that is a minefield too'



We are paying for the cost of living in the UK, where people want high wages and quality services, profits for many businesses are not huge, but margins need to be.


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> We are paying for the cost of living in the UK, where people want high wages and quality services, profits for many businesses are not huge, but margins need to be.


Yep it's a strange artificial world we live in these days, 'key workers' are often underpaid and overworked whilst fat overpaid eejits in suits exhort us to 'work harder'

As Roger Waters succinctly said 'This Species Has Amused Itself To Death'



View: https://youtu.be/Gv-yZ6sVeyw


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

I disagree with the eejits bit, if they are controlling others then what are the others.


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> I disagree with the eejits bit, if they are controlling others then what are the others.


The people doing the (often horrible) hard work


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> The people doing the (often horrible) hard work



Surely that makes them less clever than the eejits, I have never got the boss is an idiot bit from people being paid less who think they do more, just my way I suppose. 44 years in business has taught me many thnings that some not in business for themselves will ever understand or maybe want to.


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> Surely that makes them less clever than the eejits, I have never got the boss is an idiot bit from people being paid less who think they do more, just my way I suppose. 44 years in business has taught me many thnings that some not in business for themselves will ever understand or maybe want to.


I'm not talking/posting about business owners here, they generally work very hard, more about 'managers' and other non productive leeches who often look down on 'workers'


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> I'm not talking/posting about business owners here, they generally work very hard, more about 'managers' and other non productive leeches who often look down on 'workers'



But surely they must have done something clever to become a manager, the managers I know work harder and longer hours than those they manage, but that is the motor trade for you.


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## Drago (4 Jul 2020)

mjr said:


> With that low insurance on that big a car, you can tell you're a retired ex copper living in Poshshire, not a 51 year old government commissioner living in the Wirral!


I am 51 though 

Oh, and that's with legal cover, NCB protected, loan car, and £100 compulsory excess, £0 voluntary excess. Hastings Premium, if anyone is intestrested, although I do shop around every year.

@screenman Whaddya mean manufacturer profit? Lets keep the maths simple - a new car costs £100,000, but a dealer sells it for only £50,00 without making a loss. Who is deprived of the difference? And that's only on new cars. The fact that the dealer was selling used models for more that Dad was able to source them new suggests that there is an extremely healthy profit in the nearly new used market if they're able to do that.

And what about dealer bonus from the manufacturer for hitting sales targets, and the commission from selling finance?

A lot of dealers lose sympathy from the public for refusing to pay a penny more than book for a car, or even less, and then punting it out a great mark up. There's ,making an honest buck, and there's taking the wee wee. Now, at the very bottom of the market the margins are slight, but even the next step up from that a car they bought for £2k is liable to have a sticker price of at least 50% more than that when it goes on the pitch, and prep and admin won't cost a grand. Dealers aren't daft - if the margin on a vehicle looks too tight they punt it up the block. 

I've a close family member who's run their own used car sale business since back when I was in the Army and I know exactly how it works - not everyone wins every time, but generally speaking they're doing ok for themselves (virus situation notwithstanding). He's a one man band with a part time mechanic and a part time admin lass, and he's doing very pleasantly. He's playing the same game in the same marketplace as everyone else, and if others are pleading poverty it's simply because they aren't very good at what they do, not because it's impossible to make good money in car sales (once again, virus situation notwithstanding).

Not all, but a noteworthy number of cars sales types have extracted the urine out of the public for too long, and now the gravy train is floundering for some I'm afraid the public they've been pillaging for decades don't have any sympathy.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> But surely they must have done something clever to become a manager, the managers I know work harder and longer hours than those they manage, but that is the motor trade for you.


Not necessarily, I presume you have heard of the Peter Principle? You may not have come across is as a self employed employer on a small scale (no insult intended) but if you have worked with any major company or Government body then your paths must have crossed. Whilst working for BT many years ago I saw it in evidence on numerous occasions, your kids work in education, I bet they have experienced it & mentioned it to you? 

I know we're way off topic but £800 a month on a car to me is a huge of money, a person working 37.5 hours a week on minimum wage will bring home each month £1250 2/3's of what he splashes on just a car. His choice I know & good luck to him for being able to afford it, I could never bring myself to do that, even if I could afford it.


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## dave r (4 Jul 2020)

LeetleGreyCells said:


> I would love to go car-free, but it's not practical currently and besides my wife would never go for it



I didn't own a car for over thirty years, but there were a couple of places I worked where i was driving vans and small lorries as part of my job, with one of them I had access to the pool car as long as I didn't ask to borrow it too often. if you don't have a car but have a license there's always the option to hire a car, we used to do that for holidays. These days I'm retired and own a car, as my Good Lady has mobility issues the car makes life a lot easier.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> I am 51 though
> 
> Oh, and that's with legal cover, NCB protected, loan car, and £100 compulsory excess, £0 voluntary excess. Hastings Premium, if anyone is intestrested, although I do shop around every year.
> 
> ...



If only it was that easy, this time next year we would all be millionaires. Not paying more than book. are you kidding.


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## Drago (4 Jul 2020)

Nope, it's alive and well.


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## Tom B (4 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> I am 51 though
> 
> Oh, and that's with legal cover, NCB protected, loan car, and £100 compulsory excess, £0 voluntary excess. Hastings Premium, if anyone is intestrested, although I do shop around every year.
> 
> @screenman Whaddya mean manufacturer profit? Lets keep the maths simple - a new car costs £100,000, but a dealer sells it for only £50,00 without making a loss. Who is deprived of the difference? And that's only on new cars. The fact that the dealer was selling used models for more that Dad was able to source them new suggests that there is an extremely healthy profit in the nearly new used market if they're able to do that.



Insurance is a mine field and and on the face of it can seem crackers. It costs £180 to insure my 2008 ford focus for me and the issues. The commonlawinlaws have put us on their campevan insurance on the proviso that we put them on one one of our cars so they can take our car if we borrow their van. Without changing the annual mileage adding two 50yr olds with good histories added £40 (20%). Crap deal on insurance but great deal on camper van hire. Incidentally adding two 30odd year olds with 15 yrs+ driving and no claims also caused their van insurance to go up.

My hobbyhorse is what poor value a PCP represents, I've demonstrated it to several of my colleagues who have binned their PCPs and probably ranted about it here.

We have two cars in the household at the moment. We definitely need one and one car makes financial sense. If the focus died tomorrow I don't think I'd replace it, certainly not right away. Last year it did 4k and 1200 of them were in two weeks on holiday. The long term plan is to get a campervan in a few years when the little lad is a bit older. That would then be used like the focus and although available for daily use would likely do very little except when camping.

My insurance expired just before lockdown and I only restarted it again on 15th June.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

Tom B said:


> My hobbyhorse is what *poor* value a PCP represents


That has to be the understatement of the month so far


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> If only it was that easy, this time next year we would all be millionaires. Not paying more than book. are you kidding.


I'm still waiting for my Unicorn, it must be on 'Back Order'


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

I've had PCPs, no hassle, new car every 2 or 3 years. For me it was worth it in a stressful job when the last thing I wanted to worry about was servicing, mot, repairs or other admin.
For me the expense was obviously more than some here would be prepared to pay, but it wasn't a big enough slice of my salary to worry about.
Cut your cloth accordingly 🤷‍♂️
Probably retire next year, then everything changes. I'm starting to drift away from the idea of having a new car, though.


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> I've had PCPs, no hassle, new car every 2 or 3 years. For me it was worth it in a stressful job when the last thing I wanted to worry about was servicing, mot, repairs or other admin.
> For me the expense was obviously more than some here would be prepared to pay, but it wasn't a big enough slice of my salary to worry about.
> Cut your cloth accordingly 🤷‍♂️
> Probably retire next year, then everything changes. I'm starting to drift away from the idea of having a new car, though.


Really the best idea is if you absolutely need a car is to buy a brand new one and then keep it.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> That has to be the understatement of the month so far



For some it is good value, if not why would so many go for it.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Really the best idea is if you absolutely need a car is to buy a brand new one and then keep it.



Definitely an option. We'll be car free in September, we're planning on trialling that for a few months and see how it works out.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> For some it is good value, if not why would so many go for it.


Vanity, keeping up with their FB friends, too much money & not enough sense, keeping up appearances shall I continue?


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Really the best idea is if you absolutely need a car is to buy a brand new one and then keep it.



That is seldom a good idea if penny pinching after all 20% goes straight into the VAT pot, buy a couple of years old and get rid of the worst of the depreciation, of course that only matter to those whose main concern is saving money, a hell of a lot of people do not worry about that at all.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Vanity, keeping up with their FB friends, too much money & not enough sense, keeping up appearances shall I continue?



That one I was waiting for, do you ride around on £100 worth of bike? how much lack of sense do you need to have money to spend? Do you wear £10 shoes, do you have the cheapest of everything in fact. Some people like different things to others, not wrong just different. Most of the people I know without much money would like some more, they just do not have it in them to make some more though, nothing wrong again we are all different. The more money than sense line just smacks of green eyed monster.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> That is seldom a good idea if penny pinching after all 20% goes straight into the VAT pot, buy a couple of years old and get rid of the worst of the depreciation, of course that only matter to those whose main concern is saving money, a hell of a lot of people do not worry about that at all.





dodgy said:


> Definitely an option. We'll be car free in September, we're planning on trialling that for a few months and see how it works out.


Not sure how you can trial it, as @screenman says the biggest depreciation is as soon as the wheels hit the road, to make it work you have to commit to a car & then never change it until it turns to dust, buying a 1-2-3 year old car is likely to be the best option.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Not sure how you can trial it, as @screenman says the biggest depreciation is as soon as the wheels hit the road, to make it work you have to commit to a car & then never change it until it turns to dust, buying a 1-2-3 year old car is likely to be the best option.



Eh? Thought it was clear I was on about trialling being car-free.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> The more money than sense line just smacks of green eyed monster.


Which is also the response I was expecting, 

In my current situation I could should I wish pay £800 a month on a car, however I have no desire to do that nor can I think of a situation where I would. This is just another marketing ploy, as you know cars are lasting so much longer these days, in the late 70's I was running 8 year old Fords, Hillmans & Vauxhalls that had all just about rusted away at that point. Our current main car is a 13 year old Toyota Rav4 which has no visible rust at all, the car manufacturers had to come up with a new scam to get people to buy new cars, so they adopted the US model of PCP where renting something is far more acceptable. The only problem in the UK is that it is run by the finance houses & the amount of trouble with excess mileage & damage claims make the process stressful.

If you (the collective you, not you personally) want to do a PCP then feel free to do so, I personally think it's mainly based on vanity to have a new car on the drive to show off.



dodgy said:


> Eh? Thought it was clear I was on about trialling being car-free.


Apologies I misread your post, I read it in conjunction with @raleighnut's post about buying a new car & read it as your were buying a new car to trial it.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

No pcp or finance in this house, no way on earth everything paid for my boys are the same. You never answered the question about the other things though. Options that is what pcp is options, we are very lucky to have those things some people do not have them.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> No pcp or finance in this house, no way on earth everything paid for my boys are the same. You never answered the question about the other things though. Options that is what pcp is options, we are very lucky to have those things some people do not have them.


With regards to shoes, I currently have 1 pair of sandals which I bought in Florida in 2014, 1 pair of Sketchers which is the 2nd pair of a pair of pairs I bought for £40 a pair when they were on offer, both pairs will be replaced when this are no longer viable, 1 pair of steel toe capped work boots bought from Screwfix several years ago, a pair of Hi-tech fabric walking boots for riding my MTB on, a pair of leather walking boots, again they were on offer under £50 although the claimed Retail was £100+ & a pair of black leather shoes for hatches, matches & despatches. 

Yes I do tend to buy the cheapest of anything I can find, it is only in the last 2-3 years that there has ever been any disposable income, financially we have always struggled & for many years has been my biggest worry & to some degree still is, I have no pension nestegg, I could never afford to fund it, so the future could be very bleak for us in a few years time.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> With regards to shoes, I currently have 1 pair of sandals which I bought in Florida in 2014, 1 pair of Sketchers which is the 2nd pair of a pair of pairs I bought for £40 a pair when they were on offer, both pairs will be replaced when this are no longer viable, 1 pair of steel toe capped work boots bought from Screwfix several years ago, a pair of Hi-tech fabric walking boots for riding my MTB on, a pair of leather walking boots, again they were on offer under £50 although the claimed Retail was £100+ & a pair of black leather shoes for hatches, matches & despatches.
> 
> Yes I do tend to buy the cheapest of anything I can find, it is only in the last 2-3 years that there has ever been any disposable income, financially we have always struggled & for many years has been my biggest worry & to some degree still is, I have no pension nestegg, I could never afford to fund it, so the future could be very bleak for us in a few years time.



That does not sound good, I have been in that position and worse, homeless with a wife and two month old when I was 18, but please do not think that people in a different position to your have no sense, or have just been lucky.


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## Tom B (4 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Really the best idea is if you absolutely need a car is to buy a brand new one and then keep it.



Buy a six month old one and keep it.

If you look at cost per month over lifespan of the car (including repairs) it's probably best to buy three years old. Probably fresh of a PCP that someone has spent 10k on and had to keep spic and span, serviced and minor blemishes have to be stressed about and repaired before returning or the main stealer has their pants down.

Someone mentioned margins on new cars.
My employer is/was buying base spec Hyundai i30s for just under 9k and base spec pug 308s for just over 9k. Retail prices will be well above that.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Vanity, keeping up with their FB friends, too much money & not enough sense, keeping up appearances shall I continue?



You seem to have this habit (this is not the first thread you've done it) of framing everyone else's possessions against your income.
It doesn't make sense. Some people have more money than you, they buy things you can't afford, but when expressed as a percentage of their income, it might be the same that you would spend on <insert item name>.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> You seem to have this habit (this is not the first thread you've done it) of framing everyone else's possessions against your income.
> It doesn't make sense. Some people have more money than you, they buy things you can't afford, but when expressed as a percentage of their income, it might be the same that you would spend on <insert item name>.



It might be a lot less, I have a retired pal with £25,000pa disposable, for those that may not know that is the bit left when everything else is paid for, in their case two Sandals holidays a year is included in non disposable, after all how could they do without a holiday.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> You seem to have this habit (this is not the first thread you've done it) of framing everyone else's possessions against your income.
> It doesn't make sense. Some people have more money than you, they buy things you can't afford, but when expressed as a percentage of their income, it might be the same that you would spend on <insert item name>.


I do, you're right, but you don't know what that is, yes it does, true, possibly true, possibly again you have no idea.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2020)

It is difficult to know how you would spend if you had £500 a week disposable, if you have never had it. Bit like winning the lottery. we can guess what we would do with the money but that is all it is a guess.


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## Tripster (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Vanity, keeping up with their FB friends, too much money & not enough sense, keeping up appearances shall I continue?


🤔 I dont do Facebook, twitter or the like.
I would like to think I have a decent amount of sense. I work very hard, sacrifice a lot, save for my children's future and education as well as enjoying my life.
I save and buy everything, no credit or finance now but have suffered multiple redundancies in the past and remember stood at a supermarket check out with a full trolley of food, a heavily pregnant wife and my boss had failed to pay me.... so I walked out unable to pay, embarrassed and ashamed. 
I dont know my neighbours or care what car they drive. I dont care if they care what I drive. 
But I did save hard and buy my wife a new (6 month old) car because I promised I would one day and I said I would.
So I disagree with your comments.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I do, you're right, but you don't know what that is, yes it does, true, possibly true, possibly again you have no idea.


And you also come across as quite angry on here. Maybe you’re bitter about something 🤷‍♂️


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> And you also come across as quite angry on here. Maybe you’re bitter about something 🤷‍♂️


Oh dear somebody seems upset, I am sorry if I have offended you


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

Tripster said:


> 🤔 I dont do Facebook, twitter or the like.
> I would like to think I have a decent amount of sense. I work very hard, sacrifice a lot, save for my children's future and education as well as enjoying my life.
> I save and buy everything, no credit or finance now but have suffered multiple redundancies in the past and remember stood at a supermarket check out with a full trolley of food, a heavily pregnant wife and my boss had failed to pay me.... so I walked out unable to pay, embarrassed and ashamed.
> I dont know my neighbours or care what car they drive. I dont care if they care what I drive.
> ...


But it appears you are disagreeing with something you haven't read, I never said anything about new or 6 month old cars it was PCP I said was for mugs.


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## Tripster (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But it appears you are disagreeing with something you haven't read, I never said anything about new or 6 month old cars it was PCP I said was for mugs.



Your opinion is people who choose to spend money on what they like are mugs or have no sense. I begged to differ. Some work hard and would rather spend it on a car monthly, some a bike, some holidays. Doesn't make them a mug.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Oh dear somebody seems upset, I am sorry if I have offended you



Classic denialist post. You almost had me for a moment, 5 laughing emojis! You must be having a great time!
Beans on toast for dinner, again?


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## raleighnut (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> Classic denialist post. You almost had me for a moment, 5 laughing emojis! You must be having a great time!
> Beans on toast for dinner, again?


Farting was in the 'fixie thread.


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

haha 
Back on topic, has Boardman inspired anyone else to go car free?


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## Gunk (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> haha
> Back on topic, has Boardman inspired anyone else to go car free?



Mmmm, No!


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Gunk said:


> Mmmm, No!



Understandable, even on these boards. Usually (in fact today) I would be driving to Samoens in the french alps for a 2 week holiday, we could fly, but the drive is more of an adventure. But it doesn't make sense to run a car just for a drive to the alps once a year. I've looked at renting which is surprisingly not that expensive.


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## Tom B (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> haha
> Back on topic, has Boardman inspired anyone else to go car free?




I'll be watching how he gets on.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> Classic denialist post. You almost had me for a moment, 5 laughing emojis! You must be having a great time!
> Beans on toast for dinner, again?


No I had that for lunch & hang the expense I put an egg on top as well


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Think he does have his wife's car to fall back on....


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## dodgy (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> No I had that for lunch & hang the expense I put an egg on top as well



When you're really feeling flush, you can heat it up also.


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

Tripster said:


> Your opinion is people who choose to spend money on what they like are mugs or have no sense. I begged to differ. Some work hard and would rather spend it on a car monthly, some a bike, some holidays. Doesn't make them a mug.


Well if you can't read there's nothing I can do about it, ah


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## Phaeton (4 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> When you're really feeling flush, you can heat it up also.


Why?


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## Tripster (4 Jul 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Well if you can't read there's nothing I can do about it, ah



Ok Pal 👍


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## gzoom (5 Jul 2020)

dodgy said:


> Think he does have his wife's car to fall back on....



He hasn't even gone 'car free' just not taking it to work. I was surprised to learn he didn't commute to work anyways.


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## Drago (5 Jul 2020)

screenman said:


> For some it is good value, if not why would so many go for it.


It's terrible value. If you rented a car from Enterprise, and they asked you to pay to service it, or fit new tyres or brakes, you'd do your absolute nut at them, yet that's exactly what PCP does. How on Earth is that good value?

It also allows people to over extend themselves financially into vehicles they could otherwise never afford to own, and in this case they still don't own them - now with mass unemployment looming and so much of the car industry leveraged against unsustainable credit practices, the industry is about to do its own knees and also damage the economy while they're at it. It doubtless seemed like a great jolly when the sun was shining, but now it isn't the entire economy gets to suffer for the greed of the industry and buyers alike. Thanks. Not.


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## screenman (5 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> It's terrible value. If you rented a car from Enterprise, and they asked you to pay to service it, or fit new tyres or brakes, you'd do your absolute nut at them, yet that's exactly what PCP does. How on Earth is that good value?
> 
> It also allows people to over extend themselves financially into vehicles they could otherwise never afford to own, and in this case they still don't own them - now with mass unemployment looming and so much of the car industry leveraged against unsustainable credit practices, the industry is about to do its own knees and also damage the economy while they're at it. It doubtless seemed like a great jolly when the sun was shining, but now it isn't the entire economy gets to suffer for the greed of the industry and buyers alike. Thanks. Not.



I said for some, the forces guys love them, not for me though. It gets people into something they want rather than waiting for it, you takes your choice if you include a service contract into some deals or not. The industry was shaky before this shutdown, have a look at Pendragon last year massive losses, I was seeing empty workshops by midday in a lot of dealers, the nail in that one was the stretching out of service intervals cutting times on jobs as well. I know there are dodgy guys in the motor trade same as you know there are some in your old trade, but not everyone needs tarring with the same brush. Business overheads are massive in the motor trade, a small family owned main agent will cost about £50,000 a month to open up, we the customers have to pay for that it is not the fault of the dealers that insurance is £35,000 a year and rates £40,000 a year Autotrader £2,000 a month and the list goes on.


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## Brooks (8 Jul 2020)

I've been car free for over 5 years now, not by choice but by circumstances. At first I didn't think I'd be able to cope, but of course you just adapt. Been riding my cheap bike for my transport needs mostly, and there's public transport for the rest. I qualify for my oyster pass at the end of the year so I don't think I'll be needing a car again fingers crossed 😀


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## Faratid (8 Jul 2020)

Drago said:


> Volvo XC90 2.4 D5 185 R Design SE:
> 
> Insurance - 205
> Tax - 325
> ...



Good for you. And congratulations on choosing a vehicle that produces 219g/Km of CO2.


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## Phaeton (8 Jul 2020)

Faratid said:


> Good for you. And congratulations on choosing a vehicle that produces 219g/Km of CO2.


🍿


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## Landsurfer (8 Jul 2020)

Not wishing to sound unhelpful ... but when CB says he has given up his car ... HIS car ..... i take it he has use of his wifes / partners / significant other's car?
I've not owned a car for 20 years, but , I've never been without the use of one.
I've not read any of the press articles on this subject so i may be off the beam here ..


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## raleighnut (8 Jul 2020)

Faratid said:


> Good for you. And congratulations on choosing a vehicle that produces 219g/Km of CO2.


Wasn't he gifted it.


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