# Post brain injury advice



## Georgelovesjumping (22 Oct 2019)

Hello All,
I didn't fall off my bike... I fell down the stairs.
I've been desparate for a bit of normality. I've lost a bit of balance and when I got back on I was a bit wobbly.
Have you any advice on adult stabilisers? I am thinking that's the only way at minute (I ride a 24" bike to work - as it's was all I could afford and you'd have to me small to steal it)

Any advice?


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## roadrash (22 Oct 2019)

@mickle may have some advice


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## Georgelovesjumping (22 Oct 2019)

roadrash said:


> @mickle may have some advice



Bless you.
Do you have any experience? Recommendations? Idea would be to have on my 24" as most happy on that. 
Super thanks


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## raleighnut (22 Oct 2019)

One of these,


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## Georgelovesjumping (22 Oct 2019)

raleighnut said:


> One of these,
> 
> View attachment 490150
> 
> ...


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## sheddy (22 Oct 2019)

Please confirm that you have been checked over since the accident ?


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## Georgelovesjumping (22 Oct 2019)

sheddy said:


> Please confirm that you have been checked over since the accident ?



Oh, very much so.
CT scan, 2 days in hospital, went back to work and when I couldn't put a sentence together sent home. Under long term rehabilitation people. Neurologist said no riding horses, but no reason I can't do bike. Although,. It was only when I walked into physio people door they clocked balance issue.
No working at minute.

I have to relax (but I am apparently an "active relaxer). So if I can tootle around on bike and re-learn balance and get out. I am hoping that will help. 

Any ideas?


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## twentysix by twentyfive (22 Oct 2019)

Never seen any adult stabilisers. Trike ^^ as already said. 

Also - see the quack


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## Georgelovesjumping (22 Oct 2019)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Never seen any adult stabilisers. Trike ^^ as already said.
> 
> Also - see the quack



Did wonder whether they existed - and if they do (seen internet) whether any use.

Seen many quacks! 

Ta anyway ☺️


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## raleighnut (22 Oct 2019)

That's the battery rack for the Electric front wheel I fitted, the standard Trike looked like this before I modded it,


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## classic33 (22 Oct 2019)

View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Bike-Stabilisers-Fit-Wheels/dp/B0082A6SYC


Can I ask if you are able to balance upright whilst seated, with no problems?


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## Bazzer (23 Oct 2019)

If you go down the trike route, you may want to consider some of the comments in this thread.


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## Sharky (23 Oct 2019)

I know the aim is to get out into the fresh air, but have you considered a static turbo trainer? I've had a few broken bones over the last 10 years and I've always started slowly, using the turbo for about a month to get my confidence back and a bit of fitness.

Hope you recover soon.


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## roadrash (23 Oct 2019)

Georgelovesjumping said:


> Bless you.
> Do you have any experience? Recommendations? Idea would be to have on my 24" as most happy on that.
> Super thanks



I cant offer any help but another member @mickle up until recently specialised inworking with less able bodied people and adapted bikes so has a wealth of advice


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## byegad (23 Oct 2019)

My balance is a trifle iffy at times. So since I 2008 I only ride recumbent trikes. I chose recumbent rather than upright trikes because my one and only attempt at riding an upright trike (long before my balance issues) resulted in my tipping off at the first corner. A recumbent trike is really hard to tip over, in 10s of thousands of miles the worst I've done is lift a wheel at high speed. That was easily remedied.


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## fossyant (23 Oct 2019)

Stay off two wheels and driving etc until you are fit to do so - you don't want another accident.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

classic33 said:


> View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Bike-Stabilisers-Fit-Wheels/dp/B0082A6SYC
> 
> Thanks for finding the link ☺️
> I can balance, I just feel really unsafe when on the move. My balance will come back in time they say I just need help in meantime!
> ...


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

fossyant said:


> Stay off two wheels and driving etc until you are fit to do so - you don't want another accident.



I have a hoodie with "ride it like you stole it" on the back.☺️ I most certainly don't want another accident...but want to get out and manage the risk as best I can.
Thanks for getting in touch


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## PaulSB (23 Oct 2019)

@Georgelovesjumping in January I suffered a subarrachnoid haemorrhage - a bleed on the brain via an aneurysm. Long story short I had 8.5 hours surgery, 13 days hospitalised, 3.5 months recuperation. I started to ride again in late May against doctor's advice.

I do not advocate ignoring medical advice. I was entering full on depression and took a considered risk.

I completely understand your desire to return to normality, it was a huge driver for me. The brain is a wonderful and complex thing. You can use it to fool yourself. I believed I was well long before I was. It took weeks for proper balance to return just when getting out of a chair.

I began to get back on a trainer, then 3-4 short rides with friends, next 10-15 miles solo and slowly built back up to 100+ mile rides.

You don't say when this was or how serious. If you are physically fit but still off work I suggest you are allowing yourself to believe you're ready to ride when you may not be. For me it was not just a case of balance, in fact that was easy, but being aware of everything else happening around me.

My advice would be baby steps, get friends to ride with you and listen carefully to your body. To be honest if you think you need stabilisers I don't feel you are yet ready to ride on the road.

By chance I was given the all clear yesterday. We do recover but it can take time. The frustration of losing normality is huge, this drove me to the brink of depression. Keep as busy as possible, find stuff to do and above all talk to real life people if you begin to feel low. The internet is great but you may hear what you want to hear rather than get the truth from folk who can see you live!!

I'm 100% now.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

PaulSB said:


> @Georgelovesjumping in January I suffered a subarrachnoid haemorrhage - a bleed on the brain via an aneurysm. Long story short I had 8.5 hours surgery, 13 days hospitalised, 3.5 months recuperation. I started to ride again in late May against doctor's advice.
> 
> I do not advocate ignoring medical advice. I was entering full on depression and took a considered risk.
> 
> ...



What a wonderful post. I was looking for the internet community for advice on bike accessories but really should be focusing on whether it's a sensible idea in the first place.
I got a bleed on the brain so am currently struggling with fatigue and concentration. It's taken me some time to stop "arguing against it all" and accept it will take some time to get sorted. Fell early June this year.
I think I will leave the stabilisers on the shelf for the minute.
Glad you are better ☺️ and glad you have taken the time to post.


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2019)

I'm no medical expert, only aware of how I'd want to get back out on the bike after clouting the head. 

Simple test to perform whilst walking, easy do in the house out of sight. Whilst walking forward, aiming for a door maybe, try looking over both shoulders by turning the head. Does turning your head have any effect on the balance? If it does, I'd wait that bit longer before getting on a bike/trike. Even if the effect is minor.

Follow the advice given by others on here and you'll be back on a bike/trike, with fewer risks of further injury(Which will stop you riding), sooner than you think.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

classic33 said:


> I'm no medical expert, only aware of how I'd want to get back out on the bike after clouting the head.
> 
> Simple test to perform whilst walking, easy do in the house out of sight. Whilst walking forward, aiming for a door maybe, try looking over both shoulders by turning the head. Does turning your head have any effect on the balance? If it does, I'd wait that bit longer before getting on a bike/trike. Even if the effect is minor.
> 
> Follow the advice given by others on here and you'll be back on a bike/trike, with fewer risks of further injury(Which will stop you riding), sooner than you think.



I walk wide stanced. My right hip seems to be taking the brunt of it as I have found myself "wandering off" to the right.
I asked physio if I could just force myself to walk normally and he suggested "only in a corridor in your own home"
I'll get there. Still so strange to go from "light speed" everywhere to "no speed". Never been a very good patient!
Thanks for the advice x


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

raleighnut said:


> That's the battery rack for the Electric front wheel I fitted, the standard Trike looked like this before I modded it,
> 
> 
> View attachment 490173



Really impressed with your handy work/skill. X


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2019)

Georgelovesjumping said:


> I walk wide stanced. My right hip seems to be taking the brunt of it as I have found myself "wandering off" to the right.
> I asked physio if I could just force myself to walk normally and he suggested "only in a corridor in your own home"
> I'll get there. Still so strange to go from "light speed" everywhere to "no speed". Never been a very good patient!
> Thanks for the advice x


Not a very patient patient myself. In that test, you're eyes are feeding one lot of information to the brain, the inner ear another lot.* It's a quick test to see what happens when both don't match.

*That's what the nurse told me, after I'd lost balance whilst trying it.

Here's to getting back on your bike/trike in safety. And don't let it put you off in the meantime.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

classic33 said:


> Not a very patient patient myself. In that test, you're eyes are feeding one lot of information to the brain, the inner ear another lot.* It's a quick test to see what happens when both don't match.
> 
> *That's what the nurse told me, after I'd lost balance whilst trying it.
> 
> Here's to getting back on your bike/trike in safety. And don't let it put you off in the meantime.



As a not very patient patient I'm very determined haha. Thanks for the advice/understanding x


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## mickle (23 Oct 2019)

Place marker for a proper response.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

mickle said:


> Place marker for a proper response.



Sorry to be dense. Have no idea what that means. How do I do a marker?
Another lad said that you are expert at this sort of thing (helping those that can't walk down stairs properly)
I think I need to wait a little, my dad had another stroke and has been in hospital for some time. I went down and wasn't much use (went backwards/brain speaking) and will have to go again shortly if he gets discharged.
That said, I would be so grateful of your experience and advice. If I can have any sort of "victory" in getting back out there and enjoying my surrounds I'd gratefully take it.


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## mickle (23 Oct 2019)

Id be a big fan of stabilisers if they actually lived up to their promise but I'm sorry to say that stabilisers are absolutely shite. There's no getting around it. Even the best ones are awful. They have all of the drawbacks of a tricycle - and then some. They add a lot of weight and are often extremely difficult to install. 

If you know how to ride a bicycle then to ride a tricycle you have to 'unlearn' countersteering. Countersteering is essential for users of two wheeled vehicles. We've forgotten how complex countersteering is, because at the age of three/four/five when it eventually 'clicked' and were able to wobble away under our own steam we never gave it another thought. Countersteering is the action of turning the bars away from the direction that we want to turn so that we begin to fall towards the corner, and then we turn the bars to bring the wheels under our centre of gravity. 

When cyclists get on tricycles only about 20% of them can do it right away. The majority of them jump on, pedal away, try to turn the way they want to go but instead they career off in the opposite direction. It feels like the trike has a mind of it's own. Then to compensate they countersteer harder and end up riding in a very short spiral. It's so very disconcerting that lot of people freak out and never go near a tricycle again. 

As you can imagine, cyclists who have developed balance problems find the transition from two to three wheels even more of a challenge.

I mention all this really to explain just how shoot stabilisers are. When installing stabilisers one has to ensure that the contact points of all three wheels isn't level. The outer wheels have to be slightly higher than the host bicycle's rear drive wheel. The reason for this is that if the rear wheel travels over a dip in the road it will instantly lose traction. Stabilisers must be set up to wobble. So a bike with stabilisers isn't a 'delta quadricycle' it is, in effect, _two tricycles_ conjoined at the centre-line of the bike. And the poor rider must topple from one to the other. Much less stable than a trike with the same footprint. A stabbed bike is almost never vertical. Riding one on uneven terrain or a camber is hellish.

So the answer then is a recumbent trike. As mentioned upthread they are super stable (compared to an upright trike). Very low examples are more stable but can be challenging to get out of - so low _tadpoles_ tend to be the choice for the sportier rider whilst semi-low _deltas_ tend to be the choice for diffabled people because the seat height is easier to live with.

Mission Cycles in Kent import a decent (above seat steering) *Rehatri* delta trike which sometimes turns up on ebay. Often with these things, the biggest depreciation drop is for the the first owner. Often you can buy a used one, run it for a season or two and then get most of your money back when you sell it on.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

mickle said:


> Id be a big fan of stabilisers if they actually lived up to their promise but I'm sorry to say that stabilisers are absolutely shite. There's no getting around it. Even the best ones are awful. They have all of the drawbacks of a tricycle - and then some. They add a lot of weight and are often extremely difficult to install.
> 
> If you know how to ride a bicycle then to ride a tricycle you have to 'unlearn' countersteering. Countersteering is essential for users of two wheeled vehicles. We've forgotten how complex countersteering is, because at the age of three/four/five when it eventually 'clicked' and were able to wobble away under our own steam we never gave it another thought. Countersteering is the action of turning the bars away from the direction that we want to turn so that we begin to fall towards the corner, and then we turn the bars to bring the wheels under our centre of gravity.
> 
> ...



What wealth of knowledge. I suspected that stabilisers would be a gamble but you have quite comprehensively confirmed that.
Sheffield is well famed for bad roads and anything less than something with suspension is enough to kill you. 
I've seen people on reclining bikes and it frightens me. I'm on an upright and I'm still no bigger than the tyre next to me. I may be dressed head to toe in orange and have wheel lights/reflectors/bright lights...but you still have ride like you drive.
I'm not frightened I just think you have to be seen and no excuses.. passed too many black clad bikeists on way home in gloom and wanted to show them how invisible they are.
If balance issues persist I will pursue a recliner.
Invaluable info, thanks


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

Georgelovesjumping said:


> What wealth of knowledge. I suspected that stabilisers would be a gamble but you have quite comprehensively confirmed that.
> Sheffield is well famed for bad roads and anything less than something with suspension is enough to kill you.
> I've seen people on reclining bikes and it frightens me. I'm on an upright and I'm still no bigger than the tyre next to me. I may be dressed head to toe in orange and have wheel lights/reflectors/bright lights...but you still have ride like you drive.
> I'm not frightened I just think you have to be seen and no excuses.. passed too many black clad bikeists on way home in gloom and wanted to show them how invisible they are.
> ...



Thought I should clarify - no excuse not to see us. Maybe it's a horse thing as we are often in the middle of nowhere.


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## roadrash (23 Oct 2019)

Now I can speak with experience, don't think a reumbent will be difficult to see by motorist, I and many others found the opposite to be true , you get noticed more just because its unusual to see one one the road.


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## mickle (23 Oct 2019)

Drivers are no less able to spot recumbent riders than they are conventional upright cyclists. It could be argued (and often has been by me) that recumbents are easier to see than uprights. When you understand that drivers area of attention exists somewhere between the horizon and a spot on the ground a few metres ahead of their bumper you'll appreciate that the high up of an upright cyclist might not register. They're basically looking at kerbs and tail-lights. So they do see recumbents, and their height also tends to register them as 'close-to' rather than 'far'away'. 

In the real world recumbent riders will tell you that drivers tend to give them more room on the road, overtake more carefully etc. I am in absolutely no doubt that recumbents are safer on the road than regular bikes.


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

mickle said:


> Drivers are no less able to spot recumbent riders than they are conventional upright cyclists. It could be argued (and often has been by me) that recumbents are easier to see than uprights. When you understand that drivers area of attention exists somewhere between the horizon and a spot on the ground a few metres ahead of their bumper you'll appreciate that the high up of an upright cyclist might not register. They're basically looking at kerbs and tail-lights. So they do see recumbents, and their height also tends to register them as 'close-to' rather than 'far'away'.
> 
> In the real world recumbent riders will tell you that drivers tend to give them more room on the road, overtake more carefully etc. I am in absolutely no doubt that recumbents are safer on the road than regular bikes.


Predjucied fear over turned! I have often noticed that if you are wearing normal clothes and clearly going from a - b that drivers are more responsive. And I am more are of recliner s (because till now have thought them more "rickety")


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

roadrash said:


> Now I can speak with experience, don't think a reumbent will be difficult to see by motorist, I and many others found the opposite to be true , you get noticed more just because its unusual to see one one the road.



I've admitted my prejudice to mickle too. Lesson learnt. I have just thought previously how vulnerable you are if it all goes wrong - but it's nowt different really! How do you deal with junctions?


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## roadrash (23 Oct 2019)

not sure what you mean, junctions are no different on a recumbent


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## Georgelovesjumping (23 Oct 2019)

roadrash said:


> not sure what you mean, junctions are no different on a recumbent



I thought you would be further back... A bit like driving in a car to a junction but being in the back seat of a car and not being able to see. I have a lot to learn/ideas to re-set
Thanks for your patience with obviously a numpty 😂 
May be time to try one out myself.


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## roadrash (23 Oct 2019)

personally I didn't find junctions an issue, …….be warned if you try one you WILL want one


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## Bazzer (23 Oct 2019)

If you want advice about real world cycling beyond that provided by @mickle and @roadrash , there is a recumbent section of this forum. From my occasional forays in there, riders seem to love their 'bents, tadpoles, etc. Why not get some feedback from them?


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2019)

I ride a recumbent Quadricycle. Stability problems are gone in use. It does tend to get noticed in use on the roads. The only one of its kind round these parts. But doesn't guarantee that it will be seen. Look but doesn't see is there for some drivers. Even when loaded.

A question with regards balance issue. Are they still noticable when sat down. Thinking of the light-headed feeling when standing up too fast here.


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## PaulSB (24 Oct 2019)

@Georgelovesjumping thank you and you're very welcome. I'm far from being a medic of any sort but recognise fatigue, concentration and "arguing against it all" as part of my illness. Among friends and family much of last spring is lovingly referred to as Paul's mad period.

I would again encourage you to be open with and talk to those around you. For me talking about my illness was therapeutic and allowed people to understand where I was. A consequence was I got help from the most unexpected places. In one instance a friend approached me, quite unexpectedly, and gave me huge support. This has developed in to one of the best friendships of my life, perhaps the best. At 65 that's quite a thing.

None of this is your fault, do not be embarrassed, open up to people and you may well find, as I did, every cloud has a silver lining.

If you want to ask me anything just tag me in this thread.


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## kingrollo (2 Dec 2019)

roadrash said:


> Now I can speak with experience, don't think a reumbent will be difficult to see by motorist, I and many others found the opposite to be true , you get noticed more just because its unusual to see one one the road.



Trust your instinct - A recumbent is lower and is therefore less visible to a motorist - whether it is significant is another matter. I know I will get a load of replies saying you see white lines on the road - and motorists aren't gazing up skywards whilst driving.

That said I used to ride a recumbent and it was serious fun - Should my ageing body ever make me not able to ride up right I would have another in a heartbeat. You can have flags and retina burning lights to help with visibility - another problem I found was that my own vision was also restricted by neing lower down - you can't glance over car bonets etc.


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## roadrash (2 Dec 2019)

As I said that was my experience , obviously peoples experiences can, and do , differ


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## ColinJ (2 Dec 2019)

@PaulB suffered a serious head injury nearly 10 years ago. He eventually made a good recovery and got back on his bike. Perhaps he will come along and offer a few words about _his _experience...?


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## PaulB (2 Dec 2019)

Thanks to Colin for brining me in to this as it's the first I've been aware of it.

As Colin writes, I did suffer what turned out to be a near fatal fractured skull and it took me a while but though I was unlucky to fall in the first place (kitchen - home - sober), I was fortunate in its location (left side basilar to above ear) as there was no underlying essential-ness to damage too much. I couldn't drive for six months and had to take a special driving test to re-activate my suspended licence and as Colin will testify, I wrote some drivel in the six months-one year afterwards. 

The only long-term obvious damage is a loss of all the studiously accumulated pop music lyrics from before 2010 and they're not coming back but it was a small price to pay really. I've had no problems with balance and didn't have before the fall or since so the bike's been like getting back in the sad...no, I'll stop that one there shall I? 

It very much depends on the location of the damage and what's underneath that area. Not everyone's the same and not all recovery will go at the same pace. Be patient and understand your own injury.


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## PaulSB (2 Dec 2019)

Ah the drivel! I have many friends who have been kind enough to overlook the nonsense I came out with for 4-5 months.


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## kingrollo (22 Feb 2020)

Recumbent trike.
Go and see Kevin at DTek - he will let you ride a whole selection of recumbent s and will have some good advice.

Google DTek Kevin recumbent s - he is in Cambridge...or pop into the recumbent section of this forum


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