# Mountain Biking - a different way!



## Campfire (31 Oct 2010)

Cycle Chatters might be interested to read through this website. 

http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/


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## jonny jeez (9 Nov 2010)

I'm always fascinated by new variations on a bike design. However, I'm struggling to get the specifics of this one. I see the geometry point being like a trials motorcycle (although I'm not sure about having a seat blocking the position that Trials motorcyclist use when they stand on the pegs) and I can clearly see the high bars

other than that...is it a hub gear/brake?


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## GeoffApps (9 Nov 2010)

I see what you mean about the saddle position, but in practice, it doesn't seem to get in the way. You can still stand 'on the pegs', and that seems to give enough leeway for bodylean.

Have a look at the vidette on the home page; remember that I'm a pensioner with arthritic knees. You can see me manoeuvring the bike around hidden channels and rocks under the water without getting out of the saddle; this is one of those situations where the high centre-of-gravity comes into play.

Visit the site again and you'll see; yes it has hub gears and roller brakes, but didn't you notice:
~ ellipsoid chainrings
~ swing pedals
~ chain guard and a clean chain despite a muddy bike
~ mudguards with adequate clearance and length, suspended from elevated stays
~ skateplate under the bottom bracket
~ 42mm sealed and shielded bottom bracket bearings
~ special chain tensioner also with 42mm sealed and shielded bearings
~ dynamo hub driving a B&M Lumotec LED light with additional h/bar switch
~ finger fenders

Apart from these features, the Cleland Aventura is a perfectly ordinary mountain bike.


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## jonny jeez (11 Nov 2010)

GeoffApps said:


> I see what you mean about the saddle position, but in practice, it doesn't seem to get in the way. You can still stand 'on the pegs', and that seems to give enough leeway for bodylean.
> 
> *Have a look at the vidette* on the home page; remember that I'm a pensioner with arthritic knees. You can see me manoeuvring the bike around hidden channels and rocks under the water without getting out of the saddle; this is one of those situations where the high centre-of-gravity comes into play.
> 
> ...



Geoff...vidette removed...or am I looking in the wrong place...I still cant see anyplace on the site that gives a thorough specification, so perhaps I am just being thick, but it seems hard to navigate.

Interesting that the basic frame shape is one that is only now being "translated" into modern day cross country bike design (sweeping top and down tubes), Some of the 2010 "pot bellied" Xcountry bikes look really similar.


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## GeoffApps (11 Nov 2010)

Hello Jonny ~

Cleland website navigation: at the top is a panel with a profile of the AventuraTT and an action shot on either side. Just below this is a black strap with various titles (tabs) along it in white lettering.

For a full spec of the AventuraTT, click on the 'Evolution' tab and either read down through the years, or run straight down to near the bottom where you'll see a full specification.

Click on the other tabs at the top to see other pages and further aspects of the project. You can also click on the 'More photos' link at the bottom of the Flickr panel to the right of each page.

The vidette link is near the bottom of the home page.

I hope you find it all as interesting as I do...


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## jonny jeez (12 Nov 2010)

Thanks Geoff, talk about personal service!

The vidette link (to facebook) at the foot of the home page (see link address below)

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1460254157489

Is definatley removed (or has been blocked by facebook), you may want to look at this. 

I'm really enjoying reading this site and specifically about the design. I agree that most UK riding is about as far removed from Californian trails as you can get and even fast downhill trails are far and few (mostly interjected with boggy up's). I also really get the comparison to Land rover..rugged, classless and bullet proof.

I suppose my one overriding thought is that the bike (practical as it is) just looks aesthetically more like a shopping bike than a rugged off roader (Please don’t be offended by this, I'm going somewhere with it I promise).

What I men is that, to get all the height, for ground clearance, along with high bars for ride comfort and greater rear weight distribution the bike ends up looking very much "sit up". This is a position that defies conventional racing/downhill, dare I say , "American" geometry and much as I get the wisdom behind this, the bike still ends up looking very "unconventional".

Unconventional is good for specialist dedicated markets, but bad for mass market appeal.

I wonder if, now the design is fine tuned and well grounded, you could approach the aesthetic and (sorry to use the expression) "Tart" the bike up for the mass market.


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## GeoffApps (12 Nov 2010)

Very interesting. We should be having this conversation actually on the website via a comments box. However, this is as good a place as any.

Now, the bike looks like a shopping bike because it is also a shopping bike! Just as a farmer may use his Land Rover to go to the shops, so could the AventuraTT owner.

I do.

One of the reasons the position is sit-up is because I do not think the conventional riding position is at all appropriate (_twixt thee and me *I HATE IT!!!* ~ but don't tell anyone I said that)._

I regard my arms and, to a lesser extent, my legs _(combined with low-pressure fat tyres)_ as my suspension system. When riding, my arms are comfortably bent at the elbow. This allows them to fully respond to movement at the front end of the bike.

If you regard the arms in this way, as a suspension system, then the conventional _'stretched-out'_ riding posture, with the arms dead straight, does not allow for this flexing in the arms ~ it's like having suspension forks, but pre-loading them until there's very little spring left in them.

Most suspension systems, much of the time are functional only up to about 2" of travel, although many do claim to have more movement, the spring mechanism becomes much less efficient at either end of it's travel range. So, for example, a suspension fork with 4" of actual travel, will be most effective over only about half of this, becoming progressively less efficient as it reaches its limits of travel.

The tyres fitted to the AventuraTT are 2.5" wide, and when run at between 7 and 14psi _(depending on the terrain)_ will provide a very efficient 1 1/2" to 2" of high-frequency suspension _(the important stuff),_ and my arms do the rest. Essentially I get this suspension free of charge. Well, nothing is entirely free of charge, and in this case the price paid is to go a bit slower on the road ~ a price I am most glad to pay _(I do have to remind myself of this when pushing up a long, boring road climb!)._

To answer your question about aesthetics: function before form. To change the riding posture for the sake of marketing would make a mockery of my years of research and testing.

I'm quite aware that most people think my design is quirky because I've tried to design a mountain bike, and cocked it up ~ or that I want to make it different because I want to make it different, but there is an awful lot of work gone into the design; I could go on...


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## GeoffApps (12 Nov 2010)

Jonny ~ with regard to the vidette, I just clicked on the link in your last post, so if you click on that link, you'll get to see it!

Note how I stay in the saddle, even when I hit the bigger rocks towards the end of the stream, and I only come out of the saddle to lift the front wheel over the step onto dry land. The riding posture makes the whole thing that much more comfortable and relaxed, I look like I'm not even trying!


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## jonny jeez (14 Nov 2010)

GeoffApps said:


> To answer your question about aesthetics: function before form. To change the riding posture for the sake of marketing would make a mockery of my years of research and testing.



Geoff, I wouildnt for one moment suggest you change the geometry, as you say, this is what "makes" the bike. What I mean is...well, simple design bling. 

The masses love it...including me (I'm ashamed to say)


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## Renard (14 Nov 2010)

Looks ideal for muddy conditions. Would you recommend it for trail centres?


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## Norm (14 Nov 2010)

GeoffApps said:


> Jonny ~ with regard to the vidette, I just clicked on the link in your last post, so if you click on that link, you'll get to see it!


Sorry, Geoff, but you can see it because you either uploaded it or you are a Facebook "friend" of the person who did upload it.

To anyone else, the page just shows:
_"This video has either been removed from Facebook or is not visible due to privacy settings._"


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## jonny jeez (14 Nov 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> Unconventional is good for specialist dedicated markets, but bad for mass market appeal.



edit...this is assuming you wish to attack the mass market (arrogant assumption on my part, sorry) if you dont, then the bike very much sits in its own class. I wish you all the best with it, its a great piece of design engineering and defies the "current" vogue of race, weight, disks, cassettes, height and...appearance.

PS, like Norm said re the vid.


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## GeoffApps (14 Nov 2010)

Thanks for the information about the vidette; I'll try to post it somewhere else, like vimeo, and then change the link.

Trail Centres? I would think the very low maintenance design would be of interest to anyone who hires out bicycles. That's what you mean, BJB, isn't it?

The bing thing? Well, er, have a look at the page 'Pre-order' and there I describe the three possible models:

~ AventuraTT, based largely on the prototype shown on the Cleland website
~ A 'trekking' bike, based loosely on the AventuraII
~ A 'blingy' bike, with some blingy stuff on it, made with blingy materials, but in no way compromising the utilitarian philosophy

Does that meet your suggestion?


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## Renard (14 Nov 2010)

GeoffApps said:


> Trail Centres? I would think the very low maintenance design would be of interest to anyone who hires out bicycles. That's what you mean, BJB, isn't it?



I was wondering how it would ride on purpose built trails such as the 7stanes?


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## GeoffApps (14 Nov 2010)

Oh, I see.

Well, it was originally designed when no trail centres and specially prepared paths for cycling existed, and that ethos continues.

It's really meant to be able to handle almost any going, so at trail centres, where I daresay mountain bikers are whizzing about like anything, the lumbering AventuraTT may seem a bit sedate.

I've not been to one yet, but I'm going to put that right before long.


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## GeoffApps (15 Nov 2010)

Just to let folks know: the video on the home page has now been uploaded to vimeo and should be available to the whole world, and CycleChat forum fans.

I'd appreciate it if anyone could give it a test viewing and post here if there are any problems.


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## Norm (15 Nov 2010)

GeoffApps said:


> I'd appreciate it if anyone could give it a test viewing and post here if there are any problems.


 Works fine for me now.  Thanks for making the change, interesting video.


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## jonny jeez (16 Nov 2010)

Works fine now, thanks


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## GeoffApps (16 Nov 2010)

I've just added another vidette, going the other way this time...


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## jonny jeez (17 Nov 2010)

in my opinion the second vid does a finer job of illustrating the bike (which looks a lolot more elegant in video than in photo!)

Great ground clearance, better centre of gravity, gearing ratios seem to stand out in this vid too.

there's just no stopping it!


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## GeoffApps (22 Dec 2011)

A few weeks ago I took the AventuraTT round the Innerleithen Red Route with my friend Jez Turner on his Stumpy. It was my first time at a trail centre. How delightful to have the trails all laid out for us, no gates to open and close, no fallen trees to jump over, no quagmires etc. It was all quite easy really. The last part of the route had been closed for forestry work, so we took one of the Orange graded downhill routes, which was a bit scary in places. Jez had several goes on the Aventura and has written his impressions in a separate article which is not published just yet. I'll put a link here when it is available.
Also, there's a new video on the website: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbWuIHESe5M
showing the opposite of trail centres; off-piste trailblazing. There is no path during the first bit, just picking best a way over piles of 'brashings'. And here's another one with more normal path riding: 
View: http://vimeo.com/33272249


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