# Full suss for £1500



## lulubel (26 Sep 2012)

I thought this deserved a new thread, since my other one started about hardtails and then went off at a very different tangent. I've been looking at a variety of different full suss bikes, and have found a few that come in around or under £1500 (which is the absolute maximum I can justify spending).

*IF* I go for a full suss, these are the ones I've found so far that are within my price range and seem to have a reasonable level of components. Any comments, good or bad, would be much appreciated.

First on my list is the Canyon Nerve AL 7.0 W (replacing the Nerve XC next year). The 2012 model is here:
http://www.canyon.com/_uk/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=2557

I've also had a look on a couple of other sites and seen some that are within my price range.

Ghost Miss AMR:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=68676
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=65861
Apart from price, how are these 2 models different?

Corratec AirTech Miss C:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75516

Radon Slide Diva 125:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a78530/slide-diva-125.html

Cube AMS WLS:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a54723/ams-wls-white-fading-grey.html

Univega Alpina SL- SKY XT:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a64934/alpina-sl-5-sky-xt.html

This is just a list of bikes that are within budget. I know very little about most of the brands, and haven't even heard of Univega before, so I don't really have any opinions on any of them.

(I currently ride a 39cm hardtail with a shorter stem fitted, so the chance of finding anything to fit me in a unisex model is very slim.)


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## lulubel (27 Sep 2012)

I've done a little bit of research, and have found out some more about Radon bikes. Apparently, they're bike-discount.de's own brand, and they're quite popular in Germany. The comments I've seen on German forums seem to review them quite favourably.

So, the Radon is high on my list at the moment (helped because I like the look of it a lot). The forks (Rebas) are described as PushLoc, and I'm not sure what the difference is between that and PopLock that I've seen on other bikes. They seem to be about the same price, so I'm assuming they're just different rather than one being better than the other.

I don't know anything about the rear shock either - most of the bikes I've been looking at have had Fox Float - but it seems fairly well reviewed, so that's a positive.

The weight is nearly 1kg lighter than my current hardtail.

Is there anything there that says "avoid"?


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## lulubel (27 Sep 2012)

The Univega is €300 more expensive than the Radon, and also nearly 1kg lighter. It has more XT on it, replacing the SLX in some places on the Radon. It also has a Fizik saddle, which I'm pretty sure I'll be comfortable with, where the Radon has an own-branded saddle which I'll have to sit on and see (and may need to change).

The other main difference in components I can see is the rear shock, which is a Rock Shox Bar on the Univega.

The geometry is different. The Univega has less travel on the forks and a more upright head tube, which I think gives it more of a XC/race geometry. The Radon has slacker forks (although a fairly upright seat tube), which I think should make it a bit less agile, but more capable on tricky downhill sections. Is that correct?

Univega apparently started out as a US brand and isn't very well known in Europe. It's now owned by the same company that owns Focus, Raleigh and Diamondback. Its frames are manufactured (like most frames) in the Far East and bikes are assembled in Germany.

If I was choosing between the Radon and the Univega, the Univega would have to be quite a lot better (for what I need) to justify the extra €300 price tag. The lower weight is good for climbing, but how much will I notice the loss of 1kg? And would it be better to have a bike that's more capable on the downhill sections?

Edit: I've just noticed the Univega is free shipping, which makes the price difference closer to €200.


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## VamP (27 Sep 2012)

Weight weenies argue that around $1 per gram of saved weight is acceptable. By that reckoning saving 1000 g for Euro 200 is an absolute bargain. But then it ultimately rests on your own weight value system. 

For me it would be a no brainer to go for the lightest bike within budget, but then I have skewed priorities.


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Sep 2012)

lulubel, sometimes you just have to go with your instincts, let your guts, your groin, your heart and your wallet, tell your head what to do.

The only person who can tell you which bike is better for you is you.

You're talking about marginal gains, differences at the edge of a performance envelope you've not yet really started to explore. Racy XC geometry or slack and easy trail riding style. Cross country bounce or All Mountain boing. They'll both get you to the bottom of a mountain in one piece if you've got the skills appropriate to the terrain you're riding. If you haven't? The laws of physics are merciless and welcome to a world of pain....

They are all a huge improvement on what you've got now. Such a huge improvement that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference of one from another.

There's a school of thought, and it comes form a pretty impeachable source imo, one that makes a living form mtb suspension, that says if you're paying the FS weight penalty then buy as much travel as you can afford because travel is what it is all about on the way down a mountain but Cubist and VamP and RecordAcefromNew can put counter arguments which are interesting.

I recently bought FS for the first time (52 years old riding off road since early 90's). My HT is racey. Canyon Nerve AM was my chosen stead until a secondhand bargain Nerve XC came along. A friend I ride with who works in the trade says with my (lack of) riding style I should have gone for the Strive.

There is no one right answer. Just buy the bike that makes you dribble with lust the most.


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## Cubist (27 Sep 2012)

You asked the difference between the two Ghost Miss bikes at CRC. The 5700 has cheaper brakes and crankset . The 596 Deore brakes on the 5900 are just awesome. 

That Univega's a nice light bike, it's actually an XC race bike in terms of spec. If you want light and racy it's a good'un, but it won't fill you with confidence on a long loose descent like a 120 or 140 will, simply because of the steeper head angles you've mentioned. 

Same goes for the Corratech... excellent spec for the price, but again, a racy XC bike. 

Same with the Cube, although it does have a taller front end, so sits you back into the comfort zone and away from unwanted pressures. Same again though, a taut 100mm susser, with a recommended sag of 15% that ain't going to be plush!

The Radon is slacker, more relaxed trail geometry as you have found out for yourself. 

There isn't a massive amount of difference between a 100 and 120 bike, but there will always be a degree or two difference in head angle, which, unless the seat tube angle is steepened accordingly, has a payback on the climbs. 

Greg's right. Go with your heart. All of them are great bikes, and we can all get too tangled up in componentry. A Deore crankset will still turn the pedals, and you can upgrade it later! I get the feeling however that you won't settle until you've spent your entire budget on the bike that gives you the best kit, and looks great. You won't be disappointed with any of them, but you know your own personal priorities. Also, don't feel pressurised to make the best decision based on our prejudices. If the anodised purple rocker grabs you, then go with it! Buy what you fancy. You won't have £1500 to spend all that often, so you've gotta get something you like, rather than what you think we'll approve of.


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## RecordAceFromNew (27 Sep 2012)

GregCollins said:


> ... if you're paying the FS weight penalty then buy as much travel as you can afford because travel is what it is all about on the way down a mountain but Cubist and VamP and *RecordAcefromNew can put counter arguments* which are interesting.


 
Ahhhhhh I was going to pass on this thread. Lulubel doesn't half ask difficult question does she? 

While I am in the same boat as Vamp regarding this weight weenie addiction (albeit irrational it is hard to kick man...) and while I haven't examined the specs of all the links I wouldn't put the Univega above the Radon. It is XT all round ok, and is light on paper. But I have difficulties understanding how it achieves that lightness. It has funny wheel spec (Concept EX hubs with Concept Mach 1 rims anyone?), and surprising for a 1600 euros machine comes a 100 euro rear shock. Strange huh? Since by most accounts while without lockout the latest BAR is a fine shock I am not complaining about its quality - the question is whether the Univega is vfm and whether the XT bits matter. I seem to recall one of those linked has a RP23*!?

Regarding wheels I have great difficulties trusting some unknown brand when you see how much R&D the large wheel manufacturers have to put into them to compete and shave 50 grams, and they are what I like to be light while surviving in spite of my having two left feet. The Crossride while not that light and not exactly expensive, is a proven, decent set of wheels fit for the purpose.

Has the OP given some thought to service and maintenance? The only reason I ask, is that it is going to be somewhat more involved than road bike. While this doesn't bother me, it might bother some - and for that I believe it is generally accepted that Fox shocks tend to have an edge.

Greg you did ask for counter arguments...

* generally considered one of the best if not the best


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Sep 2012)

Cubist said:


> If the anodised purple rocker grabs you, then go with it!


If I could have a purple anodised rocker I'd fit it. Nowt wrong with purple.


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## lulubel (27 Sep 2012)

GregCollins said:


> If I could have a purple anodised rocker I'd fit it. Nowt wrong with purple.


 
Definitely. Looking round the room, I think purple might be my favourite colour!

I'm off to bed now, guys, so I'll think some more about this (and probably dream about purple bikes).


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## zizou (27 Sep 2012)

I have a 140mm FS and a 100 mm HT (and used to have a 100 mm FS) and the stuff i can ride with less travel is limited compared to what i can do with more. Cant get away from it but the extra travel is a good skill compensator and i will take the weight penalty - admittedly i dont know exactly what the weight difference is in the frame and forks, it feels heavier when i lift it over a gate but when riding i dont really notice it! Whereas i can tell straight away if i'm riding with heavier wheels / super tacky dual ply tyres etc.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Sep 2012)

anyone done the research to determine the weight differences between the various frame and forks as the travel increases. frame weight must creep up as travel goes up to cope with bigger forces no?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Sep 2012)

lulubel said:


> Definitely. Looking round the room, I think purple might be my favourite colour!
> 
> I'm off to bed now, guys, so I'll think some more about this (and probably dream about purple bikes).


Spoken like a woman after the lovely Helen's heart; at work (teacher) she is known as Mrs Purple.


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## fuji-stu (28 Sep 2012)

I think its a funny price range the £1500 mark...i dont think you get much more for your money than the £1200 bikes? but then when you jump to £2000 theres quite a diference in spec...i had the same problem making a desision a year ago and i ended up with a spech camber fsr for £1250....but after 9 months found out it wasnt really up to the job and ended up selling it to get an Orange five...and love it


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## fuji-stu (28 Sep 2012)

GregCollins said:


> anyone done the research to determine the weight differences between the various frame and forks as the travel increases. frame weight must creep up as travel goes up to cope with bigger forces no?


It deff does i have fox 36's with 160mm travel which are much heavier than the 32's with 140 travel


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Sep 2012)

fuji-stu said:


> It deff does i have fox 36's with 160mm travel which are much heavier than the 32's with 140 travel


please define "much".... what's the actual difference? what's the % difference?


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## fuji-stu (28 Sep 2012)

In actual weight terms i think the 32's come in at 3.8lbs and the 36's i have are 4.3lbs..not allot in actual weight but when riding ive been told the 32's are a bit more nimble less numb if you know what i mean..i don't mind the extra weight the way i see it they should last me forever as i dont think ill ever push them to there limit


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## lulubel (28 Sep 2012)

fuji-stu said:


> I think its a funny price range the £1500 mark...i dont think you get much more for your money than the £1200 bikes? but then when you jump to £2000 theres quite a diference in spec...i had the same problem making a desision a year ago and i ended up with a spech camber fsr for £1250....but after 9 months found out it wasnt really up to the job and ended up selling it to get an Orange five...and love it


 
I think it depends on where you look, and whether you're looking at full price or discounts. For example, the Corratec and the higher priced Ghost in my original post are both just under £1500, reduced from considerably more. Also, given that prices tend to increase year on year, the 2013 Canyon Nerve AL will probably come in at just under that price as well.

However, I'm not averse to spending less. I just can't afford to spend more.



zizou said:


> I have a 140mm FS and a 100 mm HT (and used to have a 100 mm FS) and the stuff i can ride with less travel is limited compared to what i can do with more. Cant get away from it but the extra travel is a good skill compensator and i will take the weight penalty - admittedly i dont know exactly what the weight difference is in the frame and forks, it feels heavier when i lift it over a gate but when riding i dont really notice it! Whereas i can tell straight away if i'm riding with heavier wheels / super tacky dual ply tyres etc.


 
That useful, thanks. It ties up with what I've experienced with road bikes. My new road bike is heavier overall than my old one, but it has better wheels, and is actually faster.



RecordAceFromNew said:


> Ahhhhhh I was going to pass on this thread. Lulubel doesn't half ask difficult question does she?
> 
> While I am in the same boat as Vamp regarding this weight weenie addiction (albeit irrational it is hard to kick man...) and while I haven't examined the specs of all the links I wouldn't put the Univega above the Radon.
> 
> ...


 
I'm glad you didn't pass because I really appreciate your thoughts on this, especially since you haven't just expressed a preference for the lighter bike. I noticed the wheels too, and while I'm not concerned about replacing wheels with something more suitable, I do want to be confident the wheels won't fall apart the first time a large rock jumps out in front of me.

Have I given a thought to service and maintenance? Not beyond putting Lennard Zinn's MTB book (I already have his road bike book) in my Amazon wishlist. If some of it's too tricky for me, the lbs in town specialises in MTBs, so I wouldn't be concerned about letting him look after the forks/shock.



GregCollins said:


> There's a school of thought, and it comes form a pretty impeachable source imo, one that makes a living form mtb suspension, that says if you're paying the FS weight penalty then buy as much travel as you can afford because travel is what it is all about on the way down a mountain but Cubist and VamP and RecordAcefromNew can put counter arguments which are interesting.
> 
> I recently bought FS for the first time (52 years old riding off road since early 90's). My HT is racey. Canyon Nerve AM was my chosen stead until a secondhand bargain Nerve XC came along. A friend I ride with who works in the trade says with my (lack of) riding style I should have gone for the Strive.


 
I have looked at more of the Canyons, but apart from the prices going up a bit steeply as you get into the bikes with more travel (and I assume this is the same across the board), the female specific models and the XS frame size disappears in anything "above" the Nerve XC/AL. Considering that I've already shortened the stem on a female specific 39cm hardtail, I don't think any of them would leave me with enough leeway to get the reach comfortable. The general impression I get from Brian and Lee's excellent book is long and low = speed, short and high = control. I can get long and low on the road bike. I'd much rather prioritise control on the MTB, which means keeping the reach short and rules out pretty much all unisex frames.



Cubist said:


> There isn't a massive amount of difference between a 100 and 120 bike, but there will always be a degree or two difference in head angle, which, unless the seat tube angle is steepened accordingly, has a payback on the climbs.


 
What all this is adding up to is that, out of the bikes I've listed, the Radon seems to be most suitable for my needs. It has the longest travel, the slackest head angle (but a reasonably steep seat tube), it isn't the lightest bike on the list but doesn't weigh half a ton either, the wheels are OK, and it isn't going to cost me a fortune. And - I almost forgot to mention - I think it looks really, really cool. There's about a 5 week wait for delivery on it, but sometimes you have to wait for things you want!

It also has the added bonus (which is nice, but not a reason for choosing it) that they're not really known outside Germany, so it's something different from what everyone else has. That's one thing I love about riding round on the Surly. It isn't "generic" and it gets noticed.

Someone, somewhere said if you phone up Bike-Discount.de, they sometimes give you an extra discount, so it's time to get on the phone


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Sep 2012)

lulubel said:


> I have looked at more of the Canyons, but apart from the prices going up a bit steeply as you get into the bikes with more travel (and I assume this is the same across the board), the female specific models and the XS frame size disappears in anything "above" the Nerve XC/AL. Considering that I've already shortened the stem on a female specific 39cm hardtail, I don't think any of them would leave me with enough leeway to get the reach comfortable. The general impression I get from Brian and Lee's excellent book is long and low = speed, short and high = control. I can get long and low on the road bike. I'd much rather prioritise control on the MTB, which means keeping the reach short and rules out pretty much all unisex frames.


 
Canyon share the disappearing women's specific frames trick with most manufacturers. I'm afraid their just isn't the market for them I guess, and iirc a lot of the elite women are riding unisex frames.

Stem wise I'm a contrarian, I go for short and low with wide bars. The wide bars and short stem gives me the control I'm after and the low, for me anyway, is simply a factor of the relationship between saddle and bar height. What I can tolerate for a few hours on a one off day 'play' riding, is rather different to what my lower back will put up with on a multi-day epic with several hours climbing each day. Which is why I prefer a generous steerer tube, a fashion faux pas par excellence, so I can change the bar height easily and quickly depending on what I'm riding.

But it all depends on your body form, relationship between arm length, leg length and spine length, flexibility, where you like you saddle to be relative to bb and in turn what muscles you engage to produce power (and when), whether you're a spinner or a grinder, how strong your core/upper body is, et cetera, and each of us is different.


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## lulubel (28 Sep 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Canyon share the disappearing women's specific frames trick with most manufacturers. I'm afraid their just isn't the market for them I guess, and iirc a lot of the elite women are riding unisex frames.


 
This is purely an observation, so don't read anything into it, but I think women, in general, are not inclined to spend as much money on hobbies as men, which would explain the lack of demand. Of course, there are exceptions, notably the greater number of women who are into horse riding and ownership, which is probably one of the most expensive hobbies there is.



GregCollins said:


> But it all depends on your body form, relationship between arm length, leg length and spine length, flexibility, where you like you saddle to be relative to bb and in turn what muscles you engage to produce power (and when), whether you're a spinner or a grinder, how strong your core/upper body is, et cetera, and each of us is different.


 
That's interesting. I usually tend to spin. On the road bike, I'll either go onto the drops, or move my hands as far forward as I can on the hoods so I can lean my wrists on the bars, when I want speed. I struggle if the gradient gets very steep and I run out of gears I can spin, hence the dinner plate on the back of the Surly. On the MTB, however, I know I'll lose speed when I change down (typically from large to middle ring) so I avoid doing that if I want to maintain my speed by sitting up and using my lower back and glutes to drive the cranks round. So I seem to vary my technique depending on which bike I'm riding. (Presumably, the shorter reach and more upright position I have on the MTB make it difficult to get low, whereas the more stretched out position on the roadie makes it difficult to sit right up, so I adapt my technique to suit.)


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## ColinJ (29 Sep 2012)

OT lulubel, but I hope you haven't been caught up in the flooding in Malaga? It sounds pretty dreadful down there!


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## lulubel (29 Sep 2012)

No. Rather like the wildfire at the end of last month, which was only about 5km away, we didn't know it was happening until we heard it on the news. We've had some heavy rain here, but I think the really torrential rain has been quite localised, and the bad flooding has been caused by major rivers breaking their banks. There was someone killed in a village on one of my favourite cycle routes, about 20km away.


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## ColinJ (29 Sep 2012)

Rather like the flooding here a couple of months ago - I read about it on the BBC website, despite the fact that I only live about 350 metres away from the area that flooded!

I'm glad that you are both okay.


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## Cubist (30 Sep 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I read about it on the BBC website, despite the fact that I only live about 350 *vertical *metres away from the area that flooded!
> 
> I'm glad that you are both okay.


FTFY Col.

Good to hear you're OK Lulubel.


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## ColinJ (30 Sep 2012)

Cubist said:


> FTFY Col.


Funnily enough, somebody was asking me about local flooding about 30 minutes ago. I actually only have about a 3 metre vertical buffer above the highest high water mark but that would correspond to the river flooding to much more than double that level because the water would have to spread across the entire valley floor. It's possible, but it would take a flood of biblical proportions.


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## RecordAceFromNew (30 Sep 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Funnily enough, somebody was asking me about local flooding about 30 minutes ago. I actually only have about a 3 metre vertical buffer above the highest high water mark but that would correspond to the river flooding to much more than double that level because the water would have to spread across the entire valley floor. It's possible, but *it would take a flood of biblical proportions.*


 
That reminds me of this fascinating website. Pick your location, magnify it, and you can do what-ifs with the water level increase in the window at the top left! It seems my feet will still be dry at about +35m, and the hill a couple of hundred yards away is still dry +60m. Might be worth sauntering up there if a huge asteroid hits the Atlantic, or have I been watching too many disaster movies?


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## billflat12 (1 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> I thought this deserved a new thread, since my other one started about hardtails and then went off at a very different tangent. I've been looking at a variety of different full suss bikes, and have found a few that come in around or under £1500 (which is the absolute maximum I can justify spending).


maybe another tangent development ,
older models offer vfm
http://www.king-cycle.net/products/Giant-Anthem-X1-W-2011-Bike.html
would the smoother ride of a FS 29er not be of any use ?
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/specialized-jett-expert-item192319.html


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## lulubel (1 Oct 2012)

billflat12 said:


> maybe another tangent development ,
> older models offer vfm
> http://www.king-cycle.net/products/Giant-Anthem-X1-W-2011-Bike.html
> would the smoother ride of a FS 29er not be of any use ?
> http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/specialized-jett-expert-item192319.html


 
That Giant's an incredible saving over the current model full price (£1999 on Giant's website), even with the €200+ they'd charge to ship it here. Can someone tell me what's wrong with it?


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> That Giant's an incredible saving over the current model full price (£1999 on Giant's website), even with the €200+ they'd charge to ship it here. Can someone tell me what's wrong with it?


iirc the 2011 X1 got rave reviews in UK comics when it came out. (though I think the blue one with the blue fox fork was SHOCKING)

if the bike actually exists in the flesh in your size at that price, always a risk and worth speaking to them about, then it is a great buy for the money. Cheap because it is NOS and, sorry but there is no easy way to say it, a woman specific bike which just limits the market.

The only weakness in the spec is the Avid brakes. They only go wrong once and then stay wrong until you put Shimano ones one.


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## RecordAceFromNew (2 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> That Giant's an incredible saving over the current model full price (£1999 on Giant's website), even with the €200+ they'd charge to ship it here. Can someone tell me what's wrong with it?


 
The only problem with "the bike", is it is sold by some shop allegedly on the 3rd floor of some building in the 4th largest city in Indonesia (have you been to Indonesia?), and which is selling various high end bikes all, not just some pastel coloured women model, at not more than 60% or so of the price elsewhere. So you have to ask how - I can tell you most quality bikes and components in shops in Hongkong, a tax free port, are not cheaper than in UK. But we are in Europe, so by the time you add freight, duties and VAT, the "discount" while might* still exist on paper is reduced, however the butterflies in the stomach one gets from buying from such source should still be alive and well... I also wonder why have they not become the equivalence of Dell Computers overnight for all the high end brands they say they sell delivering bargains to discerning buyers worldwide? 

Call me a cynic, but when something is too good to be true, it normally is. Normally is not always, of course.

Below, apparently, is just round the corner from said shop (source here).







* Europe charges a 48.5%  anti-dumping duty on bikes made in China, Taiwanese bikes might not attract the same penalty, and I suspect manufacturers have avenues to circumvent, but which might not be available to you.


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## Motozulu (2 Oct 2012)

It might well be kosha - but if I were you lulu I would deffo want to speak to people who have already bought bikes from there. If they are genuine then the 'shop' owners will be more than willing to give you names and and contacts - if they won't - steer well clear.


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## lulubel (2 Oct 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Call me a cynic, but when something is too good to be true, it normally is. Normally is not always, of course.


 
Yes, I posted before I'd taken any time to look at the website, and as soon as I saw their contact details, alarm bells started ringing for me too. I was also amused to see in their "opening times" (they do say they have a store) that you can shop online 24 hours, except Sunday. I'll have to check back on Sunday and see if their website has vanished 

In any case, even if they are genuine, and even if they do have the bike, I'd be paying at least an extra 21% in VAT even if there isn't any anti-dumping duty, which makes the price rather less competitive. (Lots of things do slip through coming into Spain, but I can't imagine a bike would be one of them!)



RecordAceFromNew said:


> * Europe charges a 48.5%  anti-dumping duty on bikes made in China, Taiwanese bikes might not attract the same penalty, and I suspect manufacturers have avenues to circumvent, but which might not be available to you.


 
It's nice to see how the consumer gets to benefit from global trade


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## jonny jeez (15 Oct 2012)

fuji-stu said:


> I think its a funny price range the £1500 mark...i dont think you get much more for your money than the £1200 bikes? but then when you jump to £2000 theres quite a diference in spec...i had the same problem making a desision a year ago and i ended up with a spech camber fsr for £1250....but after 9 months found out it wasnt really up to the job and ended up selling it to get an Orange five...and love it


 
Interesting. I'm looking at a Camber now (late 2012 model on sale). What were its biggest failings in your experience. I'm very much on the fence so you shan't offend.

PS if it helps, I'm a commuter and weekend roadie who use to ride MTB. More recently I tend to share my weekends between road rides and trips to some single track forest rides in the south of the UK (Bedgebury, leigh hill and the like). I'm 6'2 and large build so fancy a longish travel but am not worried about weight as much (frankly I could just drop a stone and save thousands!). What all that means is that I'm an occasional MTBer and not that skilled, so shant be trying any massive downhills or big drops.

Interested in your view
J


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