# Winter Training



## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

This makes me sadL, after getting home from work I can just about fit an hour’s ride in before we start losing light.
So I’m looking at setting the Turbo up.
Can anyone recommend any really good DVDs or videos that will plan my training throughout the winter?
The aim is to come back in the spring/summer even stronger because last year it felt like I had to start all over again after the winter break.
Basically a video that will include long grinds, sprints, cadence training, etc and slowly increase the efforts and time etc so I come back stronger. I don’t want to think, I want someone to tell me, "Go Hard Now" "Recover now" "Go 80%, 90% etc with timers and all that.
Ideas or recommendations?


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## Crackle (11 Sep 2013)

Sufferfest?


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## Dusty Bin (11 Sep 2013)

What are your objectives for 2014?


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Sufferfest?


 
Just had a look at that sufferest, It doesnt look like what im after.
I would like a video from a cyclist point of view, a running timer, and progression in the training.


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## Crackle (11 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Just had a look at that sufferest, It doesnt look like what im after.
> I would like a video from a cyclist point of view, a running timer, and progression in the training.


I think TMHNET and a few others use it with Trainer Road, there's a thread somewhere if you search.


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## fossyant (11 Sep 2013)

Lights or ride to work ? Turbos are the work of the devil.


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> What are your objectives for 2014?


 
Well I would like to compete next year, get in there early with some crits, and build on what I did this year. This year I got a few 50 mile sportive’s in and my 100 mile Manchester ride basically I just want to get faster and stronger.


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

fossyant said:


> Lights or ride to work ? Turbos are the work of the devil.


 
I will still get out on the weekends and a few nights with lights when the weather is ok, but I carnt rely on the weather so I need a full blown plan B! I will not get fitter and stronger if I dont get a serious winter training plan in order.


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## michaelcycle (11 Sep 2013)

Trainer Road or Cyclo Core?


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## Dusty Bin (11 Sep 2013)

For road work, most winter turbo regimes are based around 2x20 intervals, tabata, or similar. Getting involved with a road club that offers good-paced weekend rides or a mid-week chaingang would also be useful.


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> For road work, most winter turbo regimes are based around 2x20 intervals, tabata, or similar. Getting involved with a road club that offers good-paced weekend rides or a mid-week chaingang would also be useful.


 

Yeah, I do ride with a club at weekend but to be honest there are a few that are kind of slower and spoils it, so haven’t been out with them for a while, the chain gangs died of death, will be over soon as well when we hit winter.
I can gladly go out doing 2x20 intervals tabata etc but I need a structured, strict plan, that’s been put together well, includes recovery and effort, and will slowly increase duration and effort.


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## VamP (11 Sep 2013)

A diet of 2x20 and 5x5 intervals in a three weeks hard/one week easy pattern is the general way to go, but it can get a bit boring on the turbo. There are lots of other turbo workouts, that add some interest, have a google. Lots of threshold work, and some VO2max work is what you want, basically. Why not include some cross racing, or sign up for one of the winter road leagues to give your training some focus?

I don't really alter my training pattern between winter and summer, I just focus on managing my micro-cycles, with a view to the events I intend to enter.


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## VamP (11 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Yeah, I do ride with a club at weekend but to be honest there are a few that are kind of slower and spoils it, so haven’t been out with them for a while, the chain gangs died of death, will be over soon as well when we hit winter.
> I can gladly go out doing 2x20 intervals tabata etc but *I need a structured, strict plan, that’s been put together well*, includes recovery and effort, and will slowly increase duration and effort.


 
Either educate yourself and make your own, or hire a coach. Off the shelf solutions tend to be inappropriate to your needs, and inflexible when life gets in the way.


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## Rob3rt (11 Sep 2013)

Personally, during the winter I would be backing off on the intensity and doing lots of tempo work whilst enjoying riding the bike, keeping only a few "hard" sessions in there. There are arguments for both approaches, but my personal experience is that smashing yourself to bits for 12 months is not good for mind nor performance. The bike racing season it pretty long and you will be training hard during it, so do you really want to be training hard during the off season too?


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Either educate yourself and make your own, or hire a coach. Off the shelf solutions tend to be inappropriate to your needs, and inflexible when life gets in the way.


 
Yes, May that is the key...........Educate and make my own. I have been googling for the past hour or so and struggling to find what i want


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Personally, during the winter I would be backing off on the intensity and doing lots of tempo work whilst enjoying riding the bike, keeping only a few "hard" sessions in there. There are arguments for both approaches, but my personal experience is that smashing yourself to bits for 12 months is not good for mind nor performance. The bike racing season it pretty long and you will be training hard during it, so do you really want to be training hard during the off season too?


 
Yes! yeas I do. Life has forced me to have pently of rest, What with moving house this year and other random events. If i do not have a stuchured plan i fear I will just do the same as last winter which was not alot.


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## VamP (11 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Personally, during the winter I would be backing off on the intensity and doing lots of tempo work whilst enjoying riding the bike, keeping only a few "hard" sessions in there. There are arguments for both approaches, but my personal experience is that smashing yourself to bits for 12 months is not good for mind nor performance. The bike racing season it pretty long and you will be training hard during it, so do you really want to be training hard during the off season too?


 
Like you say can go both ways, but it doesn't sound like he's been smashing himself yet.

My approach is to build in a couple of easier months, one between my summer and cross season, and one after the cross season finishes. Not time off, just less structured in general.


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## Rob3rt (11 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Like you say can go both ways, but it doesn't sound like he's been smashing himself yet.
> 
> My approach is to build in a couple of easier months, one between my summer and cross season, and one after the cross season finishes. Not time off, just less structured in general.



No but if he is going to race next year, he will be smashing himself from Feb/March onwards, right up until September/October or so.


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## 400bhp (11 Sep 2013)

@gam001 is the King of turbo trainers and fitness.

He must have increased his power by a fair bit over last winter by following some training gumph. (averages 20mph regularly now whereas a year ago, perhaps averaged 16)

Sadly his waistline didn't decrease by the same proportion ;-)


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## VamP (11 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> No but if he is going to race next year, he will be smashing himself from Feb/March onwards, right up until September/October or so.


 
Let's hope so...


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

400bhp said:


> @gam001 is the King of turbo trainers and fitness.
> 
> He must have increased his power by a fair bit over last winter by following some training gumph. (averages 20mph regularly now whereas a year ago, perhaps averaged 16)
> 
> Sadly his waistline didn't decrease by the same proportion ;-)


 
Ha Ha, get lost!


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Ha Ha, get lost!


 Ow wait...........


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

At the min I just do a 10 min warm up them watch a vid like this 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc


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## 400bhp (11 Sep 2013)

Silly Billy ;-)


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## gam001 (11 Sep 2013)

He


400bhp said:


> @gam001 is the King of turbo trainers and fitness.
> 
> He must have increased his power by a fair bit over last winter by following some training gumph. (averages 20mph regularly now whereas a year ago, perhaps averaged 16)
> 
> Sadly his waistline didn't decrease by the same proportion ;-)


He he...very true, although my waistline did decrease a little...I like my food too much 
Unlike @Rob3rt , I haven't been hammering myself by going ridiculously fast on a TT-bike or doing 48 hill repats (yes, I did say 48 ) for the last 6 or 7 months, and so I don't need the "rest" like he does...so I'll be focusing on short sharp interval turbo sessions on Tues & Thurs with 3 to 4 hour endurance weekend rides on Sat & Sun. 
I'll do a few weeks of 15-20 min TT efforts, then switch to a few weeks of 3-5 min hard efforts, etc and keep mixing it up every few weeks. Trying to get my LT / VO2 power up during the turbo sessions, and then just burning calories / maintaine endurance engine / get in a social ride at weekend when I have more time. It all depends on what you want to improve I suppose. Generally speaking, raising these two measures will make you a better "all round" rider.
I've never used turbo-DVDs so can't recommend any in particular - I just do an hour in the garage with my iPod or radio blasting, and imagine I've got to stay on the wheels of @400bhp and @Hacienda71 going up a steep hill...it's funny, as I always seem to manage it in my garage...
Hoping to raise LT power by around 25watts but reduce waistline by a bigger proportion this winter...easier said than done with me...I'm not a professional cyclist afterall  
Good luck with it and, above all, enjoy it


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## Hacienda71 (11 Sep 2013)

gam001 said:


> He
> 
> He he...very true, although my waistline did decrease a little...I like my food too much
> Unlike @Rob3rt , I haven't been hammering myself by going ridiculously fast on a TT-bike or doing 48 hill repats (yes, I did say 48 ) for the last 6 or 7 months, and so I don't need the "rest" like he does...so I'll be focusing on short sharp interval turbo sessions on Tues & Thurs with 3 to 4 hour endurance weekend rides on Sat & Sun.
> ...


We only go fast up the hills because we know you are chasing us up them Gaz.


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Sep 2013)

OK, so my plan is......

Just kill it on the turbo.


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## Rob3rt (11 Sep 2013)

gam001 said:


> Unlike @Rob3rt , I haven't been .... doing 48 hill repats (yes, I did say 48 )



@gam001 That hill I rep is very short though, each rep is just a 20 second or so sprint as it is only about 250ft long, the gradient is about 20% and the surface is cobbled. If you think I am bonkers, then you will think another local rider on the HC scene is certifiable, last week he did 4 reps of Long Hill, then 6 reps of the Cat and Fiddle, in one ride (that's approx 104 miles if you count the Cat as 6 miles and Long Hill 4 miles, and excludes miles riding out to Long Hill or in between climbs!) , went home had some lentil soup then went out on a club chaingang (probably 30-50 miles) in the evening.

BTW @Hacienda71, there is no way James went up there at 19+ mph, haha. Similarly some of the other times are pretty suspect, likely GPS errors due to the short segment as you said before.


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## Hacienda71 (11 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> @gam001 That hill I rep is very short though, each rep is just a 20 second or so sprint as it is only about 250ft long, the gradient is about 20% and the surface is cobbled. If you think I am bonkers, then you will think another local rider on the HC scene is certifiable, last week he did 4 reps of Long Hill, then 6 reps of the Cat and Fiddle, in one ride (that's approx 104 miles if you count the Cat as 6 miles and Long Hill 4 miles, and excludes miles riding out to Long Hill or in between climbs!) , went home had some lentil soup then went out on a club chaingang (probably 30-50 miles) in the evening.
> 
> BTW @Hacienda71, there is no way James went up there at 19+ mph, haha. Similarly some of the other times are pretty suspect, likely GPS errors due to the short segment as you said before.



Flag it 

I was going to pull his leg about it next time I see him.


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## Rob3rt (11 Sep 2013)

@Hacienda71 He commented on my reps so I asked him WTF with the 10 secs, lol - Not bothered to flag it.


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## Hacienda71 (11 Sep 2013)

Shame he wasn't using his power meter as Strava says he was only putting out 84 watts with a HR of 110 while your measured power is 628 lol


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## Rob3rt (11 Sep 2013)

Yeah, lol. Strava random number generator.

The HR should probably be ignored to as by the time your heart responds to the effort you get to the top and start to recover. It takes several reps with minimal rest to get your HR to rise quite high.


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## ayceejay (11 Sep 2013)

Peak fitness is unsustainable, athletes who attempt to sustain a top level invariably burn out leaving them with a long road to recovery. As was suggested above planning what you hope to achieve in 2014 will give you the focus for your winter training. I would also encourage you to work with a coach who will give you a push when you need it and advice rest when appropriate as this is equally as important.


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## doog (11 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> This makes me sadL, after getting home from work I can just about fit an hour’s ride in before we start losing light.
> So I’m looking at setting the Turbo up.
> Can anyone recommend any really good DVDs or videos that will plan my training throughout the winter?
> The aim is to come back in the spring/summer even stronger because last year it felt like I had to start all over again after the winter break.
> ...




Look up Chris Carmichael http://trainright.com/

Worth a punt, certainly more structured than sufferfest.


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## jarlrmai (11 Sep 2013)

I putting everything into core and flexibility this winter.

I will do rides when the weather is okay and intervals on the trainer, but increasing my hamstring/glute/hip stretch and avoiding injury is what it;s about for me at the moment.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Sep 2013)

doog said:


> Look up Chris Carmichael http://trainright.com/
> 
> Worth a punt, certainly more structured than sufferfest.


 
Just clicked on the website and the first thing you see is…..
“Most athletes lose 20% of their power at lactate threshold between Sept 1 and Dec 31”
Wow that’s depressing.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Just clicked on the website and the first thing you see is…..
> “Most athletes lose 20% of their power at lactate threshold between Sept 1 and Dec 31”
> Wow that’s depressing.



What it doesn't tell you is that they get it back again when they start training in January.


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## gam001 (12 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Just clicked on the website and the first thing you see is…..
> “Most athletes lose 20% of their power at lactate threshold between Sept 1 and Dec 31”
> Wow that’s depressing.


Not sure I believe that statistic on the website for the "regular" cyclist. 
Maybe some people, e.g. professionals / racing ameteurs who are having a couple of months of easy riding after a hard season of hammering it all time will temporarily lose that kind of power at LT, but as Dusty Bin says will get it back pretty sharpish once they start proper training again. 
In fact, after such a hard season, people should take it easier for a month or two to let the body repair itself so it can come back stronger the following season and so you don't become fed up with cycling, focusing on building base fitness up again at lower intensities and letting power at higher intensities drop purposefully.
But, who else would normally do 3 months of taking it that easy between Sept and Dec??
Sounds like a fright tactic to make us buy some products


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## Rob3rt (12 Sep 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Just clicked on the website and the first thing you see is…..
> “Most athletes lose 20% of their power at lactate threshold between Sept 1 and Dec 31”
> Wow that’s depressing.



That is because they scale back their training, they regain it + more when they start building into the new race season. It is not possible to constantly build.


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## VamP (12 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> That is because they scale back their training, they regain it + more when they start building into the new race season. It is not possible to constantly build.


 

I doubt that statement TBH though. 20% reduction in FTP? Think about it, that's huge!


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## Rob3rt (12 Sep 2013)

I am not convinced by the numbers. But the general principal, i.e. experiencing a drop of FTP in the off-season is generally correct for those that compete during the main road season. Obviously CX riders will structure their training differently, their off season is at a different point to road riders.


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## VamP (12 Sep 2013)

Yeah no argument there.

20% seasonal swing just sounds wrong, the principle I think we agree on.


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## Ben M (12 Sep 2013)

Use a turbo trainer and do interval training. It's hard to be bored when you are concentrating on trying not to throw up


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