# Riding on fast dual carriageways.



## BlackPanther (15 May 2019)

I took the long way home today. Bit of guesswork as I’ve recently swapped jobs. I found myself on an a road that came out onto the A1 dual carriageway. The stretch is only a couple of hundred yards long before my exit (Adwick) and as it’s downhill I was doing over 30mph. I joined at this speed with a nice gap, but got beeped from an Artic, and a car. I ride with bright rear lights and a high viz flag.

Hmmmmm, annoyed me a bit as I know it’s perfectly legal to do this (though I generally avoid these situations) and those beeping their horns are the ones in the wrong as I’m aware of their presence. Just wondered if anyone regularly travels on fast dual carriageways, and do they get the same treatment?


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## Slick (15 May 2019)

I know lots of people do it and I may get shot down for this but I avoid this at all costs. I winced a few times on Sunday morning when I saw quite a number on a particularly fast stretch of dual that has history of a couple of deaths for cyclists recently. On the return journey it was almost inevitable to see a cyclist down holding his leg in pain with the police standing over him trying to get a statement. 

I know that we can, but personally I wouldn't.


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## classic33 (15 May 2019)

From car drivers yes. Local heavy haulage no, non-local at times.

Found that if one starts with the beeping others follow. Use the A58 and A629 on a fairly regular basis. And despite, like yourself travelling at speed on a "slower vehicle" isn't something they like.


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## Biff600 (15 May 2019)

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


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## Zanelad (15 May 2019)

Biff600 said:


> Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.



Very much this. I certainly wouldn't entertain it. I have about half a mile on a busyish single carriageway A road. Traffic isn't going that fast as there's always a queue of traffic over the entire length which I travel due to a roundabout. The return journey's not so bad as it's 2.30 pm and the road is much quieter. Often have traffic holding station behind me. I wouldn't like to be doing it on a fast dual carriageway though, whetever the time of day.


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## Phaeton (15 May 2019)

If you mean coming on at the Skellow & coming back off at A638 then yes legal, but not advisable, but on saying that go another 20 miles further south & I've seen the A1 being used for individual time trials.


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 May 2019)

BlackPanther said:


> . I found myself on an a road that came out onto the A1 dual carriageway. The stretch is only a couple of hundred yards long before my exit (Adwick) and as it’s downhill I was doing over 30mph. I joined at this speed with a nice gap, but got beeped from an Artic, and a car. I ride with bright rear lights and a high viz flag.?



Drivers dislike "weird" bikes like recumbents even more than they dislike regular cyclists on standard two wheelers. You will get regarded as a kamikaze loony who shouldn't be on that type of bike, or on that type of road. Personally, I would view it as essentially suicidal if you try to do it regularly.


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## DRM (15 May 2019)

Personally I think to ride a bike on any part of the A1 is suicidal at best, even at 30 mph , a vehicle going at the speed limit is closing in you with a 40 mph speed difference, in reality it could be any where between 50 to 60 mph difference, I travel up and down the A1 a lot and it's quite usual to have cars flying up to the back of my van at around 80 to 90 mph, so consider a car approaching you at 70 mph, the gap between you will close very,very quickly they see you, indicate to overtake only to see Mr BMW/Audi in lane two going like a bat out of hell, they have to slam all on to avoid hitting you and the whole effect goes right back up the road, it might be legal but I think it's a stupid thing to do.
By the way only this morning I was overtaken just north of Newton Aycliffe by an ambulance responder on a blue light run in a Skoda estate, my sat nav was showing 72 mph my conservative estimate of that cars speed was at least 100 mph as that stretch of road was quite clear, pretty scary to think of that car passing you on a recumbent!


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## classic33 (15 May 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Drivers dislike "weird" bikes like recumbents even more than they dislike regular cyclists on standard two wheelers. You will get regarded as a kamikaze loony who shouldn't be on that type of bike, or on that type of road. Personally, I would view it as essentially suicidal if you try to do it regularly.


I ride a "weird" cycle/recumbent, not all recumbents are bicycles.

For me, if the other traffic on the road dislike that, and shouldn't be allowed on the roads, that's up to them. They are just going to accept the fact I've as much right to use the roads as they do. Get used to it, I'll continue using the roads.


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## slowmotion (16 May 2019)

Personally, self preservation trumps making a point.

_Here lies the body of Michael O'Day.
He died defending his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
But just as dead as if he'd been wrong._


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## Racing roadkill (16 May 2019)

I rode the A34 from Winchester to Oxford once. I will _*NEVER *_do that again. I also rode the A27 from near Portsmouth to Chichester, again, Darwinism at its finest, particularly where it gets all complicated near its entry to the A3M The trucks were sounding their horns more to warn me it was going to get interesting, than to have a go at me. Should I have suffered a mechanical, there was nowhere to sort it out, without getting off those roads, good luck walking the distance to the off ramp, on cleats, with a crocked bike, with trucks / coaches coming past at nearly 60 mph, with not much clearance, in the dark, when it’s raining. Bikes are allowed there, but you’re also allowed to jump out of a plane with no parachute, I know which I’d rather do to be fair.


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## screenman (16 May 2019)

I have raced on plenty of dual carriageways, I felt saver than many of the roads around these parts with their blind bends.


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## Jimidh (16 May 2019)

slowmotion said:


> Personally, self preservation trumps making a point.
> 
> _Here lies the body of Michael O'Day.
> He died defending his right of way.
> ...



This x 100 - there are just some roads that are inherently unsafe to ride on and best avoided.


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## Mo1959 (16 May 2019)

I hate even having to cross a busy dual carriageway. Couple of my routes cross the A9 and even waiting at the side for a gap, some of the big curtainsiders nearly suck you off your feet.


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## Joffey (16 May 2019)

I've ridden on the A19 near me a few times - can't say it's bothered me and the drivers have been fine with it.


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## classic33 (16 May 2019)

Jimidh said:


> This x 100 - there are just some roads that are inherently unsafe to ride on and best avoided.


Not all are "A" roads either.

I've two "A" roads to cross, at the least, or else use them. The alternate roads are the ones I want to avoid. The "A" roads are safer.


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## vickster (16 May 2019)

I accidentally rode down the A404 to Marlos having taken a wrong turn. A friend who’s from those parts says that neither she nor anyone else has ever seen a cyclist riding there. I’m the stuff of local legend!  

It was actually ok, as it wasn’t too busy, had a good gap between carriageway and verge and the road surface good and slightly downhill. Wouldn’t repeat though. Actually preferably to some fast moving single country roads like the A10 towards Cambridge


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## Milkfloat (16 May 2019)

Whilst I would personally stay away from them, I reserve my right to ride on any road I legally can and am more than happy to support any other cyclist that wants to.


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## DCLane (16 May 2019)

Looking at where (I'm guessing) you've ridden if it's Skellow to the A638 there's no chance I'd ride it. And I'll ride on most roads - the Llanfair 400 audax saw me put the bike down the A55 from Holyhead.

There's got to be an easy-enough detour around it.


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## Rooster1 (16 May 2019)

Personally, I avoid Dual Carriageways if I can. There are a couple of hills near me that open up an extra lane on the uphill which I don't mind so much. It depends on the volume of traffic I guess.


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## Pale Rider (16 May 2019)

Some dual carriageways near me can be good to ride on at quieter times of day.

Motor traffic tends to use lane two, leaving lane one for me, or at the very least there's plenty of room to pass.

Doesn't apply to the always busy dual carriageways such as the A19.

Cycling is banned on the stretch from Wolviston to south of Middlesbrough.

You could in theory ride the bit past Sunderland and Peterlee, but I wouldn't.


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## HLaB (16 May 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> I regularly drive up the A1 in the Peterborough-Newark sort of area. I really wouldn't want to ride a bike on there. I don't much like driving a car along it.


It used to be my commute and I'd echo that a dozen times. The closest I've got to actually cycling on the A1 are converted footways (substandard cycle ways) alongside and they are scary enough.


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## Brains (16 May 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> It depends. I've ridden on, say, the Thanet Way (A299) that has big hard shoulders, is flat with good sight lines and wasn't terribly busy at the time. While it was not much fun, and I only did it because I was in a hurry trying to catch up with someone else, I didn't feel in danger.
> 
> On the other hand I recently mis-navigated myself onto the A249 just North of Detling. A smaller dual carriageway. I only needed a couple of km (if that) until I could get off it again but it was horrific. Quite narrow, poor sight lines and incredibly busy. I thought better of it, turned round back up the hill that I'd just come down and found another way.
> 
> I regularly drive up the A1 in the Peterborough-Newark sort of area. I really wouldn't want to ride a bike on there. I don't much like driving a car along it.



I drive down the A299/Thanet Way, at 70mph, on a regular basis, I'd be very surprised to see a cyclist there, and whilst I'd move into the 2nd lane to pass, many would not.
Given that there is a perfectly good cycle path beside it (I've ridden it twice), personally I cant think of a reason why you want to be on that road, even if it is better than most. 

I been driving up and down the A2 for over 40 years, I remember that up until the late 1990's it was regularly used for time trials.
Whilst it may still be perfectly legal to do so, given the volume and speed of the traffic on what is to all intents and purposes a normal three lane motorway, you would be mad to cycle down the A2 today


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## Ming the Merciless (16 May 2019)

vickster said:


> I accidentally rode down the A404 to Marlos having taken a wrong turn. A friend who’s from those parts says that neither she nor anyone else has ever seen a cyclist riding there. I’m the stuff of local legend!
> 
> It was actually ok, as it wasn’t too busy, had a good gap between carriageway and verge and the road surface good and slightly downhill. Wouldn’t repeat though. Actually preferably to some fast moving single country roads like the A10 towards Cambridge



From Shepreth north there's a nice wide cycle track on the left of the A10. It's a little over a year old.


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## steverob (16 May 2019)

I could boast that I've actually cycled on all the single digit A roads in England (1 to 6; 7 to 9 are in Scotland and I haven't done them).

However it's a little bit of a cheat because for three of them, I've done it near their beginnings in central London, when they are still single carriageway 30mph roads (and one of them had a bus lane to ride in anyway), and another two I only rode on them for less than a hundred yards, at what were basically little more than staggered crossroads; out of one side turning and into another just a bit further down on the opposite side. Only one have I ridden on for any distance outside of London and that was the A4 out of Maidenhead for about a mile, which wasn't that bad.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 May 2019)

There a n old section of A12 dual carriage way that was replaced by a A14 bypass in Essex. It's really quiet , great to cycle on, a couple of audax events use it.


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## vickster (16 May 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> From Shepreth north there's a nice wide cycle track on the left of the A10. It's a little over a year old.


Cool. It’s been a few years since I rode to Cambridge from London


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## mjr (16 May 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> There a n old section of A12 dual carriage way that was replaced by a A14 bypass in Essex. It's really quiet , great to cycle on, a couple of audax events use it.


Copdock. Has a tunnel to the park and ride then continues as cycleways and cycle lanes to the railway, where a sudden right through a park or allotments or something takes you to the station. Useful as part of a 20ish mile route from Harwich ferry port if you've no bike reservation into Ipswich and there's no space on the unreservable direct train.


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## Dogtrousers (16 May 2019)

Brains said:


> Given that there is a perfectly good cycle path beside it (I've ridden it twice), personally I cant think of a reason why you want to be on that road, even if it is better than most.


I didn't notice a cycle path at the time. I just now checked the map and according to OCM the cycle path appears some time after I joined the road (just N of St Nicholas at Wade), and disappears some time before I left (Hawthorn Corner), so no path for significant sections. Not a route I'd choose if I wasn't in a hurry, mind.

This was just one example that came to mind. There are others.


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## Brains (16 May 2019)

Check out cycle route maps at https://cycle.travel/map
The cycle path is actually 20m to the North of the A299, behind the trees, so it cant be seen from the road.
It crosses the road on a footbridge, it's a surprisingly good path. 

Note: if you are following it from West to East then ensure you follow the signs when it suggests you go up a little path alongside the road, otherwise half a mile later you will be lifting your bike over a gate 








Cycle Path is on the left (North) side of the A299 
There is a ditch, fence and trees between the path and the road, so you cant move between one and the other


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## ianrauk (16 May 2019)

Brains said:


> Check out cycle route maps at https://cycle.travel/map
> The cycle path is actually 20m to the North of the A299, behind the trees, so it cant be seen from the road.
> It crosses the road on a footbridge, it's a surprisingly good path.
> 
> ...



@Trickedem and myself did that path a couple of years back on an Audax. Surprisingly good surface for cycling.


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## Ian H (16 May 2019)

It depends.


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## Dogtrousers (16 May 2019)

Brains said:


> Check out cycle route maps at https://cycle.travel/map
> The cycle path is actually 20m to the North of the A299, behind the trees, so it cant be seen from the road.


Cheers. 

At the time I was riding flat out (something I very rarely do) with snot dribbling out my nose and steam coming out my ears and was also a bit lost. As it turned out I ended up on the DC which was actually not all that bad. I rode on the white line to the left, with a big shoulder area to escape onto and the traffic was quite light. I did catch up with my friend eventually.

But next time I'm up that way, if it's a planned ride, I'll be tootling along little yellow lanes, not big red A roads. (OS map colours)


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## Reynard (16 May 2019)

vickster said:


> It was actually ok, as it wasn’t too busy, had a good gap between carriageway and verge and the road surface good and slightly downhill. Wouldn’t repeat though. Actually preferably to some fast moving single country roads like the A10 towards Cambridge



The A10 this side of Cambridge has its hairy bits as well. You do see some cyclists using parts of the stretch between Ely & Cambridge, but not that often. I certainly wouldn't - and besides, there are quieter alternatives.

I do use a few short stretches around Ely and Littleport when there's no other option, but they're less busy than the A10 south of Ely, mainly because a lot of traffic then turns onto the A142.

Speaking of, the A142 can be a tad hairy as well. Although there is a cycle path (albeit a not very good one) heading to Witchford, Sutton and beyond, and on the other side, the bit to Soham has changed thanks to the new bypass. The local cycle club uses the stretch of the A142 between Witchford and Ely as part of their 25k TT course.


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## classic33 (16 May 2019)

steverob said:


> I could boast that I've actually cycled on all the single digit A roads in England (*1 to 6; *7 to 9 are in Scotland and I haven't done them).
> 
> However it's a little bit of a cheat because for three of them, I've done it near their beginnings in central London, when they are still single carriageway 30mph roads (and one of them had a bus lane to ride in anyway), and another two I only rode on them for less than a hundred yards, at what were basically little more than staggered crossroads; out of one side turning and into another just a bit further down on the opposite side. Only one have I ridden on for any distance outside of London and that was the A4 out of Maidenhead for about a mile, which wasn't that bad.


Which A5?


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## screenman (16 May 2019)

HLaB said:


> It used to be my commute and I'd echo that a dozen times. The closest I've got to actually cycling on the A1 are converted footways (substandard cycle ways) alongside and they are scary enough.



I have raced on those roads many times.


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## mjr (16 May 2019)

Reynard said:


> The A10 this side of Cambridge has its hairy bits as well. You do see some cyclists using parts of the stretch between Ely & Cambridge, but not that often. I certainly wouldn't - and besides, there are quieter alternatives.


Yeah, if you like the gravel on National Route 11  The B road through Cottenham is quieter than the A10 but still has far too many bad drivers close-passing. It's disgraceful that the Ely-Cambridge A10 has a cycle path - and again a not very good one - that still has a clanking great gap in it from Little Thetford to Waterbeach. Government is building another farking motorway to Cambridge when the cycleways (or cycle-friendly roads - I don't mind which) are still incomplete, demonstrating yet again that cycling is the lowest-priority opion.



Reynard said:


> I do use a few short stretches around Ely and Littleport when there's no other option, but they're less busy than the A10 south of Ely, mainly because a lot of traffic then turns onto the A142.


Isn't there always another option for that bit? The main unavoidable bit north of there IMO is to get to Brandon Creek or between Hilgay/Southery and Denver without the huge detour round the sluices.



Reynard said:


> Speaking of, the A142 can be a tad hairy as well. Although there is a cycle path (albeit a not very good one) heading to Witchford, Sutton and beyond, and on the other side, the bit to Soham has changed thanks to the new bypass.


Still unchanged and very very unpleasant between Stuntney and Soham, isn't it?


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## Reynard (16 May 2019)

mjr said:


> Yeah, if you like the gravel on National Route 11  The B road through Cottenham is quieter than the A10 but still has far too many bad drivers close-passing. It's disgraceful that the Ely-Cambridge A10 has a cycle path - and again a not very good one - that still has a clanking great gap in it from Little Thetford to Waterbeach. Government is building another farking motorway to Cambridge when the cycleways (or cycle-friendly roads - I don't mind which) are still incomplete, demonstrating yet again that cycling is the lowest-priority option.



Especially when you've got decent east-west routes along the guided busway... Seems the north-south bit has been ignored. Although the busway's not without its problems either.



> Isn't there always another option for that bit? The main unavoidable bit north of there IMO is to get to Brandon Creek or between Hilgay/Southery and Denver without the huge detour round the sluices.



I don't tend to go that far north. Most of my riding is around the Littleport / Welney / Coveney / Mepal area. The two short stretches of A10 that I use are at Sandhill (where it joins up with bits of the A1101) and the bit between West Fen and the B1411.



> Still unchanged and very very unpleasant between Stuntney and Soham, isn't it?



Can't say to be fair, as I haven't ridden beyond Ely Station since they opened the new Southern Bypass last October. But there's a heck of a lot less traffic coming from Stuntney - it's very noticeable whenever I go to the station or to the Tesco at Angel Drove.


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## Rusty Nails (16 May 2019)

I've ridden the last 15 miles of the dual carriageway of the A470 between Merthyr and Cardiff just once when I was in a hurry to get home. Never again. If you get off the main carriageway on to the fairly wide hard shoulder to avoid the speeding traffic (50-70 mph) you find that it is full of debris e.g. stones, twigs, cans that is just as dangerous to cyclists.

I drive that route at least once a week and now I appreciate why I never see cyclists on it.


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## vickster (16 May 2019)

screenman said:


> I have raced on those roads many times.


This millennium? Traffic has got significantly heavier in the last 20 years


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## screenman (16 May 2019)

vickster said:


> This millennium? Traffic has got significantly heavier in the last 20 years



Wow! Where has that 12 years gone.


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## steverob (16 May 2019)

classic33 said:


> Which A5?



Wasn’t aware there was more than one to be honest (or is it the same one but a large chunk in the middle has been reclassified like the A41?)

The short bit I did was on a section between Milton Keynes and Towcester (around the village of Potterspury).


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## classic33 (16 May 2019)

steverob said:


> Wasn’t aware there was more than one to be honest (or is it the same one but a large chunk in the middle has been reclassified like the A41?)
> 
> The short bit I did was on a section between Milton Keynes and Towcester (around the village of Potterspury).


There's one in Northern Ireland as well.


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## screenman (16 May 2019)

Roads are not dangerous.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 May 2019)

Ian H said:


> It depends.



On the phase of the moon


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## vickster (16 May 2019)

screenman said:


> Roads are not dangerous.


They could clearly be safer

*Statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for the year ending June 2018 shows, there were:*

1,770 reported *road deaths*.
26,610 people killed or seriously injured.
165,100 casualties of all severities, a decrease of 6%


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## mjr (16 May 2019)

How does a road die? Too many potholes? 

Shame they harm so may people as they die, though.


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## slowmotion (16 May 2019)

screenman said:


> Roads are not dangerous.


What constitutes dangerous is very much a matter of personal perception, not an absolute. I know I wouldn't feel in the least bit comfortable riding west from Exeter down the A30 towards Cornwall. It's a two lane motorway in all but name, and it's stuffed with big, expensive cars burning down to start a holiday at 80-90 mph. The drivers are tired at the end of long journeys and the kids in the back are whining. I don't want to be four feet away on my bike when they rocket past.


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## Rusty Nails (16 May 2019)

screenman said:


> Roads are not dangerous.



But the people who use them can make them dangerous places to be.


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## DRM (16 May 2019)

slowmotion said:


> What constitutes dangerous is very much a matter of personal perception, not an absolute. I know I wouldn't feel in the least bit comfortable riding west from Exeter down the A30 towards Cornwall. It's a two lane motorway in all but name, and it's stuffed with big, expensive cars burning down to start a holiday at 80-90 mph. The drivers are tired at the end of long journeys and the kids in the back are whining. I don't want to be four feet away on my bike when they rocket past.


Which is exactly what the A1 is, indeed the majority of it is the A1(M), you've no idea if the driver next to you has travelled from Scotland on next to no sleep with a car full of whining arguing kids, roads may not be dangerous, but some battles aren't worth fighting, legal or not.


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## HLaB (16 May 2019)

screenman said:


> I have raced on those roads many times.


You've got more guts than me.
Some tremendous times come from the Long Bennington to Newark section it must be CTT ok for them then but during the week/peak


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## Kempstonian (17 May 2019)

Most of the courses I rode on in the dim distant past involved an A road at some point. I looked out some start sheets today and the A roads I raced on were: A1, A4, A6, A13, A41, A45, A405, A414, A604 and the A1090. I felt safe doing so. It was much, much safer in those days because the traffic was lighter and the cars didn't go as fast (also starting early on a Sunday morning helped, as most folks were still in bed!). 

Also, by and large, drivers were considerate and left plenty of room when overtaking you. I almost fell off on a roundabout once and the car behind me was considerate enough not to run me over... lol Of course, if we were out on a club run on a minor road we would reciprocate by dropping into single file to make it easier for them too. There was at least a bit of respect from all parties back then.

Times have changed considerably now in all areas of life. Not for the better.


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## screenman (17 May 2019)

Rusty Nails said:


> But the people who use them can make them dangerous places to be.



That is my point.


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## mjr (17 May 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> Of course, if we were out on a club run on a minor road we would reciprocate by dropping into single file to make it easier for them too.


It's not easier to overtake a group that's now twice as long as it needs to be, but that's an argument that's been had on this site often before.


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## DaveReading (17 May 2019)

classic33 said:


> Which A5?



Why, is there more than one ?


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## Dogtrousers (17 May 2019)

Is it true that if you fold the A4 in half you get the A5?


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## Lee_M (17 May 2019)

DRM said:


> Which is exactly what the A1 is, indeed the majority of it is the A1(M), you've no idea if the driver next to you has travelled from Scotland on next to no sleep with a car full of whining arguing kids, roads may not be dangerous, but some battles aren't worth fighting, legal or not.



That's the problem around adwick, it's just after the A1M finishes if you're travelling north. 

I wouldn't do it, but drivers should know the law and drive appropriately. Then again Thanos wasn't necessarily wrong either


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## bladderhead (17 May 2019)

I used to commute on the A12 in NE London. I used to leave work at 9pm. When I ride at night, the headlights of cars are so bright. I would like riding at night, if is was not for having blinding lights in my eyes all the time. On the A12 my eyes were shielded from the oncoming traffic by the central reservation. Years ago I had a job in the evenings in London and used to ride home at night. I do not remember being blinded by headlights back then. Are modern headlights brighter than they used to be? Is it because I ride a recumbent these days, so my head is in a different position?

When I was riding to work on the A12 it was in the early afternoon. The road was so empty at that time of day I used to ride in the right-hand lane.


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## Racing roadkill (17 May 2019)

bladderhead said:


> Years ago I had a job in the evenings in London and used to ride home at night. I do not remember being blinded by headlights back then. Are modern headlights brighter than they used to be?



Yes. Modern HID lamps are up to 40% brighter than the old Halogen numbers.


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## Kempstonian (17 May 2019)

mjr said:


> It's not easier to overtake a group that's now twice as long as it needs to be, but that's an argument that's been had on this site often before.


I'm talking about mostly on the narrower country roads. Not too much traffic on those roads, so they could easily pass if nothing was coming the other way. If we had stayed in pairs they would have no option other than to sit behind us until the road widened a bit. Car drivers often acknowledged us for making room for them to get by.


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## classic33 (17 May 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> I'm talking about mostly on the narrower country roads. Not too much traffic on those roads, so they could easily pass if nothing was coming the other way. If we had stayed in pairs they would have no option other than to sit behind us until the road widened a bit. Car drivers often acknowledged us for making room for them to get by.


And only a slight difference in speed, between you and them, required to pass.


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## Kempstonian (17 May 2019)

classic33 said:


> And only a slight difference in speed, between you and them, required to pass.


That's right. They wouldn't have overtaken on a corner but on a straight stretch they never really had to slow down at all. On twisty sections it made no difference because we stayed in pairs until it was safe to move over - usually after a signal from somebody at the back who had heard the car approaching (which would be more difficult today with the quieter engines!). We never had a problem with this and never had a driver swear at us or show any annoyance with us getting in his way. But I don't think the term 'road rage' had even been invented back then.


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## gavroche (18 May 2019)

I used a dual carriageway once and tried to get up to 60mph but could only manage 25 so I thought it safer to not use them anymore, unless in my car.


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## byegad (18 May 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Drivers dislike "weird" bikes like recumbents even more than they dislike regular cyclists on standard two wheelers. You will get regarded as a kamikaze loony who shouldn't be on that type of bike, or on that type of road. Personally, I would view it as essentially suicidal if you try to do it regularly.



Not in my experience. Recumbent trikes tend to get huge amounts of room by overtaking vehicles of all kinds. I often get let out of junctions in town and on country roads drivers will get their whole vehicle over the far side of white line.

I suspect that we are regarded as disabled and drivers are very considerate by and large, perhaps picturing the potential court case that would follow any collision. I've certainly surprised a few people by calmly getting out of the seat and walking away from the trike.


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## Grievesy (22 May 2019)

no. Just no.


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## Sixmile (22 May 2019)

I generally would stay well clear of carriageways but found myself on one last night about 10:30pm. We'd done a spontaneous 70 miles and it was now dark and the option was to divert quite a bit from our course to get onto an unlit greenway. We decided to plough on up the carriageway which runs for about 4 miles and has the odd touch of lighting. We'd both good rear lights on so all vehicles bar one, gave us plenty of room by moving into the overtaking lane. What I noticed was how good the road surface was compared to what we'd been riding on for the last number of hours.


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## Slick (22 May 2019)

Slick said:


> *I know lots of people do it and I may get shot down for this* but I avoid this at all costs. I winced a few times on Sunday morning when I saw quite a number on a particularly fast stretch of dual that has history of a couple of deaths for cyclists recently. On the return journey it was almost inevitable to see a cyclist down holding his leg in pain with the police standing over him trying to get a statement.
> 
> I know that we can, but personally I wouldn't.


I really did expect to be slated for that, every day is a school day.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 May 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Drivers dislike "weird" bikes like recumbents even more than they dislike regular cyclists on standard two wheelers. You will get regarded as a kamikaze loony who shouldn't be on that type of bike, or on that type of road. Personally, I would view it as essentially suicidal if you try to do it regularly.



Nonsense bollox and tosh. Please tell me what recumbent you have and where you have experienced this attitude.


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## classic33 (22 May 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Nonsense bollox and tosh. Please tell me what recumbent you have and where you have experienced this attitude.


I've travelled in both directions on Manchester Road & Wakefield Road in Bradford on a recumbent, with no issues.


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## bladderhead (23 May 2019)

I used to turn right on Gallows Corner Roundabout on my way home from work at about 9pm. Three dual carriageways enter that roundabout. I used to do it on a Grasshopper, then graduated to a Cruzbike Silvio. The Silvio was a bit hairy at first until I got the hang of it. Commuting is the way to learn fast.


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## MrGrumpy (29 May 2019)

I remember years ago when I first attempted the cycle commute, I would cycle up and down the A90 dual carriage way to the Forth Road bridge. In fact at one point i recall getting on at Admiralty interchange and cycling up and down towards the bridge. I would then have to go on the path to the side before jumping back on the road at the other end. It was fast especially going into Edinburgh. My MTB was souped up with Specialised fatboy tyres and tri bars  . Diced with cars and lorries...... All rather stupid really. Fast forward a few more years and you were banned from cycling it or walking on the A90. Crazy stuff would never dream of doing that now, just no way. In fact after having a few scares recently I`m staying of main roads as much as I can.


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## Slick (29 May 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> I remember years ago when I first attempted the cycle commute, I would cycle up and down the A90 dual carriage way to the Forth Road bridge. In fact at one point i recall getting on at Admiralty interchange and cycling up and down towards the bridge. I would then have to go on the path to the side before jumping back on the road at the other end. It was fast especially going into Edinburgh. My MTB was souped up with Specialised fatboy tyres and tri bars  . Diced with cars and lorries...... All rather stupid really. Fast forward a few more years and you were banned from cycling it or walking on the A90. Crazy stuff would never dream of doing that now, just no way. In fact after having a few scares recently I`m staying of main roads as much as I can.


I was in Burntisland on Tuesday before I had to head to Aberdeen and was most surprised to see a cyclist on a flat bar bike sandals and a kagool pedaling like the clappers just before a sign warning traffic to be aware of cyclists on a planned TT.


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## Blue Hills (30 May 2019)

Brains said:


> I drive down the A299/Thanet Way, at 70mph, on a regular basis, I'd be very surprised to see a cyclist there, and whilst I'd move into the 2nd lane to pass, many would not.


Hopefully you would have seen me brains.

I rode for miles in the dark on it fully fully loaded for camping a year or two ago - I was running seriously seriously late for a camp near Birchington and it seemed the most direct. At the end as I unpacked it seemed as if my rear rack light may have been semi obscured by an overhanging tent, though I do have a second light on a bum bag. Luckily none of my panniers dropped off, for they did on bits of the rest of the trip - since sorted with new upgraded Ortlieb hooks.

I did get tooted quite a lot and in retrospect wouldn't do it again - the traffic was seriously seriously fast - pretty much motorway speeds.

At the end of a long heavy ride I did for sure find some extra zoom in my legs to get off the damn thing.

I did ride a very short bit of it on the way back but in daylight, with care, and made use of the cyclelane in bits.

Be careful out there folks - choose your roads carefully - particularly in the dark or bad visibility.


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## MrGrumpy (30 May 2019)

Slick said:


> I was in Burntisland on Tuesday before I had to head to Aberdeen and was most surprised to see a cyclist on a flat bar bike sandals and a kagool pedaling like the clappers just before a sign warning traffic to be aware of cyclists on a planned TT.


wisnae me


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## Venod (30 May 2019)

I am coming a bit late to this thread as I have only just seen it.

Going back to the OP there is an alternative if you are riding between B1220 and A638 (the red line on the attached map) you go down the road in the front of the row of houses, then along a path at the side of A1, the path then goes down to an old rough road and curves round to join the slip road at Red House (bit of useless information Jeremy Clarkson's parents had a Paddington Bear factory close to here) 

I wouldn't think this path suitable for bike in your Avatar, but it is used by cyclists on more conventional machines. 






I wouldn't ride on the A1 between the points described above, but I have ridden on it a bit further north on the hard shoulder between New Close Lane and Scorcher Hills Lane a few times, its not a pleasant experience and its a relief to get off.


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## pjd57 (6 Jun 2019)

The Edinburgh end of the A1 has motorway restriction signs , no cycling ,horses etc.

No idea how far south the restrictions apply


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## Slick (6 Jun 2019)

pjd57 said:


> The Edinburgh end of the A1 has motorway restriction signs , no cycling ,horses etc.
> 
> No idea how far south the restrictions apply


I noticed the same on the amazing new Aberdeen bypass. Amazing other than the fact there is no provision for cycling whatsoever included.


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## pjd57 (7 Jun 2019)

Slick said:


> I noticed the same on the amazing new Aberdeen bypass. Amazing other than the fact there is no provision for cycling whatsoever included.


The A720 Edinburgh by pass is restricted as well.
Round Glasgow , I can't think of any A road that you're not allowed to cycle on.
Clydeside Expressway probably should be but isn't.
It has a decent cycle path alongside it ,but occasionally you see cyclists use the dual carriageway.
The long uphill road from Rutherhlen to East Kilbride is one I wouldn't go on.

City centre.....I don't mind.


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## mjr (10 Jun 2019)

Slick said:


> I noticed the same on the amazing new Aberdeen bypass. Amazing other than the fact there is no provision for cycling whatsoever included.


Probably excused like for the A14(M) on the grounds that no-one was previously cycling across the fields it's built on 



pjd57 said:


> The A720 Edinburgh by pass is restricted as well.


At least it has an alternative route signposted, as discussed on previous threads here.


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## Slick (10 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> Probably excused like for the A14(M) on the grounds that no-one was previously cycling across the fields it's built on
> 
> 
> At least it has an alternative route signposted, as discussed on previous threads here.


Obviously you know this but extrapolate that thinking and we're back in caves.


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## rugby bloke (18 Jun 2019)

I thought about this thread on Thursday afternoon. On returning to Northampton after my Surrey Hills ride I was at a roundabout off the A45 in the absolute blinding rain, only to see a cyclist entering the slip road to join the A45. Now this is a motorway in all but name but without the benefit of a hard shoulder. Unwise to ride along in good weather, utterly crazy to ride in the sort of rain we had on Thursday. I only hope the cyclist made it to his destination safely.


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## Richard A Thackeray (18 Jun 2019)

Not done it for a few years, but have ridden down the A1, from A59 junction to 'Bramham Crossroads'(*1*)
I'm sure it was a Sunday, as back then, in my previous job, I was Mon-Fri
And.... to top it off, it was on my MTB of the time, on Specialized Turbo slicks (*2*)

A fairly worrying ride, mainly on crossing the slip-roads!


I've also ridden from York, along the A64, pre-bike paths
Maybe even scarier than the A1, due to all the bends, & side-lanes

I'm not sure I'd do it now, even if it was legally allowable, but there are worse roads, or were, such as the 3-lane A59 'Beamsley Bank' (*3*), & one a lot closer to home too (*4*)





*1.* Early 90s?, so very definitely pre upgrading to M-way, & various prohibitions

*2.* I remember these, as they were 1", & a devil to fit to the rims on the MTB; Pace Research RC100

*3. *Years ago, for those of a West Yorkshire persuasion, this part of the A59 from Ravens Peak to Bolton Bridge, was a 3-lane affair
A central lane that both 'up & down' could use for overtaking!!
It was rather fraught, descending & wanting to turn into Storiths Lane, towards 'Buffers Cafe'

*4.* Black Road, to the east of Wakefield - the A655 to Normanton/Castleford - was also a _suicide laner_, before a bus-lane was added (downhill)


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## Richard A Thackeray (18 Jun 2019)

Oh!!, & whilst not entirely a dual-carriage way, it is a hell of a worrying stretch of road
Anyone from the Leeds/Wakefield areas. may be familiar with the A61 'Bell Hill'/'_Stourton Roundabout_' (jct 43/M1), on the Wakefield - Leeds road

- You ride downhill, with traffic joining from your right, as it comes from Rothwell/Oulton/Castleford

- You pass under the M1,* &* the slip-road off it, appears from your left. with traffic at the appropriate speeds

- Now, due to the nature of the road layout here, you're beholden to riding on the white line between lanes 1 & 2

- There's also a lane joining from the right, BUT, this is (if obeyed) a Give Way

- Traffic leaving the M1, has now, to merge into the lane you're following

- Traffic wanting the M621 (as the divergence of the Mways becomes here) wants the left lane, to the slip road

- All the while, you're following the white-line, to go under the M621, towards Stourton (which as you go under it, has the off slip, & relevant traffic)

A 'fun' road, & I did it for a few years, when I worked in Leeds


Equally, heading up, coming up Bell Hill was...………… interesting...……. on the section between the roundabout & the hill itself

Looking down onto the road from Rothwell/Cas; https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3858409


Seen here, the left lane is the 'off-slip', from the M1
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@53.765247,-1.515894,335.31h,2.93p,1z

I still ride down that way, & back up, maybe once a month
Climbing Bell Hill is safer now;
Bus lane, 40MPH limit, traffic lights onto Wood Lane (none, when I worked in Leeds)


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## al78 (3 Sep 2019)

The closest I've experienced to fast dual carriageways is the A24 between Dorking and Horsham. Not too bad late evening, and there is plenty of room for drivers to overtake. I actually felt less safe on the single carriageway stretch south of Capel, narrow road, blind bends and summits, with drivers who are porbably not expecting to see a cyclist on that road at 11 pm.


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## mjr (3 Sep 2019)

rugby bloke said:


> I thought about this thread on Thursday afternoon. On returning to Northampton after my Surrey Hills ride I was at a roundabout off the A45 in the absolute blinding rain, only to see a cyclist entering the slip road to join the A45. Now this is a motorway in all but name but without the benefit of a hard shoulder. [...]


The alternative cycle route National 539 isn't signed or maintained that well, is it? And the back road route on to Wellingborough isn't signed at all. It's all a bit  and I would blame the councils and government much more than the cyclist.

Part of that bit of the A45 is the Nene Valley Expressway and cycling is almost banned over one bridge (actually the restriction is a 25mph minimum speed limit, but that rules most of us out!). The national government agency (Highways England) says they're going to build more expressways. I fear the A45/N539 rubbish is what we're going to get more of, despite the pretty pictures on https://cycletraffic-elearning.com


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