# Road ragers should wear helmets



## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFRdEUN240


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## theclaud (31 Jul 2015)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

There's an American one doing the rounds where the motorist punches the biker in his helmet clad face, though hops about clutching his hand in agony.

To be fair, the cyclist in the OPs video is a fool. Why go looking for confrontation? Why risk getting stabbed, as happened just a few days ago? All the courts in the world can't undo being assaulted. The driver was an idiot, the close pass dangerous, he should've left it there and turned over his footage to the dibble.


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## toeknee (31 Jul 2015)

Made my morning that has thanks, one of the best swallow dives I have ever seen, should be in the diving squad of the attitude Olympics. What a class ending.......


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

The start of the fall was ok. I'm giving 8/10 for the running kick. He even tried to recover and move into a forward roll which would have been aces and skills and witnesses would have gasped in admiration. Didn't quite make it. His mouth was running faster than his brain " PUT YOUR MOUTH SHUT" and then his little legs were running faster than his body.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

I was a bit disappointed he didn't face plant, that would've been a 10/10 from me.


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## SteveF (31 Jul 2015)

The driver and the cyclist were both pillocks, in fact made for each other


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> The driver was an idiot, the close pass dangerous, he should've left it there and turned over his footage to the dibble.


Who would have sent him a "victim support" letter, lost the footage down the sofa, and then written to him him three months later saying NFA. The police won't prosecute Michael Mason's killer, how likely is it they'll even put their croissants down for a close pass?


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

Whereas now he's gone and got himself assaulted, and a guilty verdict can't undo being punched, or a knife wound, or worse.

Do you not watch the news, see how people are regularly murdered in road rage incidents?


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

Escalating it like that the driver was lucky not to get his face stabbed off.


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## tyred (31 Jul 2015)

The best thing to do with that is to send it to You've been framed and collect £250


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

Yes, the cyclist riding away in fear of having his camera nicked is clearly a scary proposition for an angry motorist.

And what kind of dilbert lets themselves get assaulted, then places the safety of their camera above their own?


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## theclaud (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> Whereas now he's gone and got himself assaulted, and a guilty verdict can't undo being punched, or a knife wound, or worse.
> 
> Do you not watch the news, see how people are regularly murdered in road rage incidents?


You may have missed the fact that this one had a happy ending.


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## SteveF (31 Jul 2015)

Not to mention the self incrimination.... riding on the pavement like that, what if a toddler had crossed his path.... will no one think of the children!!!


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> Whereas now he's gone and got himself assaulted, and a guilty verdict can't undo being punched, or a knife wound, or worse.


I didn't see the knife wound, where did that happen?


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

Getting assaulted by a motorist is a happy ending?


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## Globalti (31 Jul 2015)

I'm not sure how it all started - it didn't look like a close pass to me. The cyclist was too aggressive for his own good and will get stabbed one day. Nice outcome though.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

Globalti said:


> The cyclist was too aggressive for his own good and will get stabbed one day. Nice outcome though.


Yeah, nasty cyclist forcing the car driver to overtake him without using the steering wheel


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## Big Dave laaa (31 Jul 2015)

Maybe the rider behaved a bit stupidly putting himself at risk of assault etc. but this driver and 1000s like him have the attitude that us cyclists don't belong on the road and are fair game for being knocked down and by his own ridiculous admissions even killed. Hopefully he'll get punished for this and maybe change his attitude but I doubt it. It's frightening when you see how we are viewed by the 'road tax paying' car drivers. Funniest thing I've seen today though when the mug took a tumble and I almost spat my coffee over the works laptop


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

It was a deliberate close pass "ARE YOU A TANK NO" so the driver knew he was there and did it on purpose, and naturally he wasn't in a hurry at all cos he had all the time to hang around shouting threats..


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> Getting assaulted by a motorist is a happy ending?


You think this is the end of it? Jason Wells is still the top Google hit for "cyclist cafe gimp suit", I think this story will run just as long


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

Music for the gif of the actual fall:

1/ Entrance of the Gladiators (you know, the circus music)

2/ Sad violins.

3/ Laural and Hardy theme tune

4/ Faure's requiem like off Platoon


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## Big Dave laaa (31 Jul 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Music for the gif of the actual fall:
> 
> 1/ Entrance of the Gladiators (you know, the circus music)
> 
> ...



The Vangelis one form Chariots of Fire


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

Tchaikovsky's 1812 but he only falls over once. Maybe we could ask him to do a another take?


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## Mugshot (31 Jul 2015)

I rather enjoyed that, magnificent forward roll at the end, could have done with a helmet though.


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## theclaud (31 Jul 2015)

User said:


> What is all this stabbing obsession?


It's a sexual anxiety thing.


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## theclaud (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> Getting assaulted by a motorist is a happy ending?


The twatty idiot fell on his head. It's all good.


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## threebikesmcginty (31 Jul 2015)

The driver is clearly an unstable moron, the cyclist is probably revelling in the fact he's got some juicy youtube material. In the good old days the cyclist would have just waved two fingers and shouted 'you twat', now the whole thing is turned into an online circus. I realise they can highlight issues to do with bad/dangerous driving but a lot of it is just so unnecessary.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

threebikesmcginty said:


> now the whole thing is turned into an online circus.



Wot I said:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0CyOAO8y0


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## jiberjaber (31 Jul 2015)

I physically laughed out loud to the end of that... what a pair!


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

You're ignoring the facts man. At one point the poor bloke is upside down with only his bald patch touching the ground. In fact a helmet would have probably prevented the whole thing.


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## crazyjoe101 (31 Jul 2015)

Dan B said:


> Who would have sent him a "victim support" letter, lost the footage down the sofa, and then written to him him three months later saying NFA. The police won't prosecute Michael Mason's killer, how likely is it they'll even put their croissants down for a close pass?


Yeah, it's always the police's fault... It couldn't possibly ever be to do with that little organisation known as the CPS.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

3 points for the seat belt, let alone anything else.


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## winjim (31 Jul 2015)

Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?

'Cos surely that's the point, isn't it?


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## Markymark (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?
> 
> 'Cos surely that's the point, isn't it?


Yeah. Me. Years and years ago. Opened a car door when parked without looking. Cyclist got very very angry with me. Never did it again.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

crazyjoe101 said:


> Yeah, it's always the police's fault... It couldn't possibly ever be to do with that little organisation known as the CPS.


In Michael Mason's case it didn't even _get_ to the CPS, because the police office involved decided on his own initiative that driving straight into the back of a cyclist was not worth trying as careless driving. I'm sure the CPS are part of the problem, but they're certainly not the whole problem. Honestly, public shaming looks more and more like the nearest approximation we're going to get to road justice


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## crazyjoe101 (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?
> 
> 'Cos surely that's the point, isn't it?


I've never chased anyone down but I've lost my cool a couple of times and shouted and on one such occasion the driver stopped and apologised, as it turned out I was mostly to blame for him entering the roundabout next to me as I was caught out in the dark and I only had two small emergency lights and I was in dark, non-reflective clothes so I don't think he had much chance of seeing me, I'd started riding with daylight left and hadn't realised how dark it had got. As for people who do stupid stuff deliberately (close passes, running ambers/reds), I can't see a confrontation ever helping, and if it does, it can't outweigh the risk of meeting a nut case in my opinion.
[Speaking as someone with a helmet camera as it is relevant to this thread]
If someone does something truely bad, dangerous or aggressive, stay away from that driver because it's not someone you can have a nice chat with, read out the reg and report it to the police. If it is not serious enough to bother the police with, take a deep breath and just get over it, you can upload it and moan about it on YouTube later; there is really no need to chase after people and record your big brave protest against the driver. Currently when stragers sometimes ask me about my camera they have a positive reaction, but every time I watch one of these argument type videos all I can think is "I am in the same group as these people". I already look like an idiot with a camera on my head, I really don't need a stigma with it too.


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## Supersuperleeds (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?
> 
> 'Cos surely that's the point, isn't it?



I have, though to be fair I didn't shout at him, I just pointed out why I had the road position I had and why his hand on his horn as he came by was stupid, he apologised straight away


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## winjim (31 Jul 2015)

crazyjoe101 said:


> If someone does something truely bad, dangerous or aggressive, stay away from that driver because it's not someone you can have a nice chat with, read out the reg and report it to the police. If it is not serious enough to bother the police with, take a deep breath and just get over it, you can upload it and moan about it on YouTube later; there is really no need to chase after people and record your big brave protest against the driver.


The trouble is, without the chase down and subsequent argument, footage of a close pass is pretty boring and will make for a dull YouTube channel. Cyclists such as the one in the OP need to escalate the situation in order to make for an interesting vid. In this case it seems to have paid off...

I totally agree with you, if it's bad enough to report then report it. No need to go looking for trouble.


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## Glow worm (31 Jul 2015)

Brilliant! I love a happy ending. Funny happy endings are even better!


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## Tail End Charlie (31 Jul 2015)

Yes, I laughed at the end, probably like most people, but it's not a happy ending as the driver will now have an even greater hatred of cyclists and I wouldn't like to be the next cyclist he encounters. The cyclist taking the video will also be very apprehensive next time he goes out as I presume that he and the driver are local to each other. 
So, all round, not a good outcome.


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## crazyjoe101 (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> The trouble is, without the chase down and subsequent argument, footage of a close pass is pretty boring and will make for a dull YouTube channel. Cyclists such as the one in the OP need to escalate the situation in order to make for an interesting vid. In this case it seems to have paid off...
> 
> I totally agree with you, if it's bad enough to report then report it. No need to go looking for trouble.





Tail End Charlie said:


> Yes, I laughed at the end, probably like most people, but it's not a happy ending as the driver will now have an even greater hatred of cyclists and I wouldn't like to be the next cyclist he encounters. The cyclist taking the video will also be very apprehensive next time he goes out as I presume that he and the driver are local to each other.
> So, all round, not a good outcome.


It's sad really because it only has the effect of distancing cyclists and drivers, especially when the vast majority of drivers don't have a problem with us or at least behave well around us.


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

farking absolutely brilliant. I proper laughed out loud at the end.

Hillarious. I think after the initial catch up with the driver, the cyclist was fairly in control of the situation (the odd snigger thrown in).


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## Arjimlad (31 Jul 2015)

Great video, very entertaining..

Certainly some bad driving and a nutter driver - but I am not sure I would carry on provoking such an ignorant douchebag in these circumstances. Better to be right and alive than right & dead/injured ! 

People with the physique of Daddy Pig should not try chasing and kicking cyclists !


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?
> 
> 'Cos surely that's the point, isn't it?



Never shouting no.

Probably half a dozen times I have approached a driver and the outcome has been positive. That does not mean I have approached drivers just half a dozen times though.

Wish I had filmed the one when I had a tug - o - war with a man bag and a driver of a convertible.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

Cyclist politely remonstrates with dangerous driver, gets assaulted and is then criticised for having escalated the situation.


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

Arjimlad said:


> Great video, very entertaining..
> 
> 1. but I am not sure I would carry on provoking such an ignorant douchebag in these circumstances. Better to be right and alive than right & dead/injured !
> 
> 2. People with the physique of Daddy Pig should not try chasing and kicking cyclists !



IMO the cyclists knew that, because of 2., the driver could not have done 1.

And who was the boy in the car. Love the fact that he sits there nonplussed. Maybe the driver has form


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## TwickenhamCyclist (31 Jul 2015)

Idiot in a car with a funny ending
NSFW

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFRdEUN240&feature=youtu.be


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## SteveF (31 Jul 2015)

SteveF63 said:


> Not to mention the self incrimination.... riding on the pavement like that, what if a toddler had crossed his path.... will no one think of the children!!!



I wish I hadn't made the above flippant remark now...

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/blackpool-pavement-cyclist-decision-today.184831/#post-3829101


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

Its like ground hog day in here.


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## Col5632 (31 Jul 2015)

The ending is the only part worth watching 

Karma is a bitch eh


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## Nigeyy (31 Jul 2015)

Normally I don't laugh at other people's accidents.... but.......


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## Arjimlad (31 Jul 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Cyclist politely remonstrates with dangerous driver, gets assaulted and is then criticised for having escalated the situation.



No, I have no criticism of the polite remonstration whatsoever. It could have ended very nicely if the Pug driver had been polite in return. I have spoken to drivers before and had a good-natured perfectly civilised discussion. I have also enjoyed some verbal jousting from time to time.

But, sticking around to receive even more abuse whilst Mr Angrypants begins to steam from his ears is not something I would generally view as a productive use of my time. Continuing any sort of debate with such morons is futile and not without risk.

It is like trying to teach the proverbial pig to sing. You just annoy the pig with utterly predictable results.

The close pass and first exchange of words captured on video is more than enough to reveal the Peugeot driver as a complete bell-end, and I remain grateful to the film-maker for the trouble taken to record and broadcast over 3 minutes of pig-baiting entertainment. Chapeau !


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## Pale Rider (31 Jul 2015)

Common assault and threat to kill - said in the heat of the moment, but that type of threat often is.


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## stoatsngroats (31 Jul 2015)

Mm, to be devils advocate, I think there is space to relinquish the road at the point of overtake out of courtesy, but that doesn't forgive the subsequent actions by the driver. I would not have followed the car, for fear of involving myself in the likely angry confrontation, and the fact that the registration number was noted, would have been sufficient to report to our county-wide 'Anti-social' driving website, which can be referred, by Sussex Safer Roads, to the police..
After this confrontation, what is the likelihood of this particular driver having even less regards for cyclists, perhaps an example of the law of unexpected consequences.

I realise that we are all different, but confrontation often raises anger, and loss of control - the last thing I want for someone driving a vehicle.


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## fossyant (31 Jul 2015)

Bet that stung. He didn't half flip over on his head.


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## DWiggy (31 Jul 2015)

BRILLIANT!! although the pass didn't seem that bad tbh but the end part....the end part was just AMAZING! ...So funny


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## TwickenhamCyclist (31 Jul 2015)

stoatsngroats said:


> Mm, to be devils advocate, I think there is space to relinquish the road at the point of overtake out of courtesy, but that doesn't forgive the subsequent actions by the driver. I would not have followed the car, for fear of involving myself in the likely angry confrontation, and the fact that the registration number was noted, would have been sufficient to report to our county-wide 'Anti-social' driving website, which can be referred, by Sussex Safer Roads, to the police..
> *After this confrontation, what is the likelihood of this particular driver having even less regards for cyclists*, perhaps an example of the law of unexpected consequences.
> 
> I realise that we are all different, but confrontation often raises anger, and loss of control - the last thing I want for someone driving a vehicle.



I'd argue he already had scant regard for them in the first place - he might think twice before performing a close overtake again - and if the police have a word regarding the assault, then he might think twice about mouthing off and making threats... he might also think the next cyclist has a camera and may even adjust his thuggish behavior accordingly. 
So, looks like he already hates cyclists but might give them a bit more space in the future - I'd say the overall effect of the video and confrontation would be positive in that its made the roads a marginally safer place


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## Gains84 (31 Jul 2015)

Oh man that was a brilliant ending, if that had been water instead of concrete i think his entry would barely have made a splash...as it was i think he got what he deserved!
Wonder what he told his passenger? "The cyclist sucker punched me"! Too much barely contained rage in the world these days!


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## glasgowcyclist (31 Jul 2015)

stoatsngroats said:


> After this confrontation, what is the likelihood of this particular driver having even less regards for cyclists,



I'd say none.

GC


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## Markymark (31 Jul 2015)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> I'd argue he already had scant regard for them in the first place - he might think twice before performing a close overtake again - and if the police have a word regarding the assault, then he might think twice about mouthing off and making threats... he might also think the next cyclist has a camera and may even adjust his thuggish behavior accordingly.
> So, looks like he already hates cyclists but might give them a bit more space in the future - I'd say the overall effect of the video and confrontation would be positive in that its made the roads a marginally safer place


...or his hatred of cyclists has increased, only next time he'll be more careful in not getting caught. You can sing and dance all day long about what might happen next time, we'll never know.


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## Phaeton (31 Jul 2015)

6 & 2 3's


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## FastFlyer (31 Jul 2015)

Bloody brilliant!

Hate cyclists like this though, deserved a punch in the face.


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## swee'pea99 (31 Jul 2015)

Have to say, it's doubtless my age, but if I got passed 'that close', I'd probably just roll my eyes, think 'what a tosspot', and move on. Life is too short etc...

Mind you, I did enjoy the tumble!


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## Drago (31 Jul 2015)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> So, looks like he already hates cyclists but might give them a bit more space in the future - I'd say the overall effect of the video and confrontation would be positive in that its made the roads a marginally safer place



He's just assaulted a cyclist, then fell flat on his chops and humiliated himself while chasing the same cyclist so he could assault him again. I can't see how that likely to make him better disposed towards us.


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## Phaeton (31 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> I can't see how that likely to make him better disposed towards us.


Maybe if a cock with an attitude didn't chase him down in the first place.


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## G3CWI (31 Jul 2015)

Not sure I learned anything from this video - besides not entering into a pointless argument with a nob.


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## winjim (31 Jul 2015)

Why does the video end where it does? I wonder what happened next.


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## Phaeton (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> Why does the video end where it does? I wonder what happened next.


Clearly the cyclist didn't go back to make sure the driver was okay which any decent person would have


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## glasgowcyclist (31 Jul 2015)

Phaeton said:


> Clearly the cyclist didn't go back to make sure the driver was okay which any decent person would have



He didn't see the twat fall.

GC


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## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2015)

That's pretty stressful viewing in my book. The fact the guy falls over at the end wasnt much of a punch line.

Let's hope there's a conviction. We need protection from unstable people like that.


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## winjim (31 Jul 2015)

I see from the YouTube comments that the cyclist has decided _not _to go to the police after all.


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## glasgowcyclist (31 Jul 2015)

Phaeton said:


> Clearly the cyclist didn't go back to make sure the driver was okay which any decent person would have



Yeah right, you expect the cyclist to return and comfort a furious driver who has already assaulted him, made threats to kill him and was chasing him down to steal his camera? (Assuming he'd been aware of the fall.)

GC


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## mrbikerboy73 (31 Jul 2015)

Over reactions from both parties there I thought, bloody funny ending though!


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## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> I see from the YouTube comments that the cyclist has decided _not _to go to the police after all.


Really? Why?


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## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2015)

How many threads do we need on this?


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## winjim (31 Jul 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Really? Why?


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## mustang1 (31 Jul 2015)

Great ending. But inkinda felt sorry for the driver. Cyclist made a lot of effort to follow. 

What lesson was learned? Either takenup primary on the road, or ezpact a car to try and squeeze past.


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## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2015)

winjim said:


> View attachment 98343


Christ almighty.

That man is a danger to the public.

If it's on YouTube though, the state can still prosecute though admittedly without the cyclists support they'd be cagey.


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## Phaeton (31 Jul 2015)

User13710 said:


> Is there anything at all that the cyclist could have done that you wouldn't criticise?



Yes he could go get anger management lesson's this all started because he wanted it to, after an innocuous pass he decided he wanted confrontation, even after the driver had tried to park up & found he was still being chased.



glasgowcyclist said:


> He didn't see the twat fall.
> 
> GC



You sure, I doubt he rode away without looking back over his shoulder



glasgowcyclist said:


> Yeah right, you expect the cyclist to return and comfort a furious driver who has already assaulted him, made threats to kill him and was chasing him down to steal his camera? (Assuming he'd been aware of the fall.)
> 
> GC


Yes, why not, he's clearly a middle aged man who took quite a fall, the bigger man would have, nothing that happened here apart from the fall wasn't inevitable, the cyclist went looking for trouble & he found it


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## Lonestar (31 Jul 2015)

I ride down sidesteets quite a bit to avoid main roads and pull in as soon as I can (and try to stay aware of any vehicle approaching from behind) to avoid any such incidents as these.You just know people are going to attempt silly dangerous passes.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

Hope the last two posters don't have children, teaching them to be quiet if they're bullied won't help them in the long run.


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## Mugshot (31 Jul 2015)

It's interesting how people can see such differences in the same thing.


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## benb (31 Jul 2015)

Phaeton said:


> he could go get anger management lesson's



I don't think it's the cyclist that needs anger management lessons.


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## Phaeton (31 Jul 2015)

benb said:


> I don't think it's the cyclist that needs anger management lessons.


So you think it's normal to chase a car down 3 streets to confront the driver that really didn't do anything that bad, okay it could have been better, but from both camera angles it really wasn't that dangerous.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

He didn't chase him down, he caught up with him on the same journey, which underlines how stupid and pointless the dangerous overtake was.


Edited by Mod


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## G3CWI (31 Jul 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> We need protection from unstable people like that.



In the end he did look unstable, have to agree.


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## blazed (31 Jul 2015)

Will never get tired of watching.


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## Big Dave laaa (31 Jul 2015)

blazed said:


> Will never get tired of watching.



Is it a bird? Is it a plane?


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

[QUOTE 3829474, member: 9609"]I think that is a really big mistake - he may have now instilled in this already volatile idiot, an overwhelming rage and hatred towards all cyclists. The police need to read this bloke the riot act. He needs to know that if he comes any where near another cyclist that he is going to be in serious trouble.[/QUOTE]

Cyclists have little to do with it. His anger is just there. He needs to understand you can't behave like that in public.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

blazed said:


>


"You need to put your farking " ... hands out


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## Origamist (31 Jul 2015)

I think it's time we stopped laughing at that belly flop onto the road...


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

Phaeton said:


> Yes he could go get anger management lesson's this all started because he wanted it to, after an innocuous pass he decided he wanted confrontation, even after the driver had tried to park up & found he was still being chased.



It may have appeared an innocuous pass to you, but it's always tricky to tell on camera. Indeed, if you were down the same street and a driver passed you in the same manner, you may have treated it as innocuous. That doesn't mean that it is innocuous to every other cyclist.

The cyclist thought it was an issue and I can understand why. The road is a side street and isn't wide enough for a car and a cyclist to travel safely side by side.

This would have been avoided if the car driver didn't pass the cyclist. That has to be the catalyst. Everything from then on is a consequence.


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## Bazzer (31 Jul 2015)

IMO the cyclist doesn't cover himself in glory, but Mr Angry really needs talking to by the police, even if charges are not brought. 
I would have serious concerns about not only the next cyclist unfortunate enough to be on the same stretch of road as that tw@t, but pretty much every other cyclist he comes across. 
An unpleasant and potentially dangerous road user inflamed. Not good.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

Bazzer said:


> I would have serious concerns about not only the next cyclist unfortunate enough to be on the same stretch of road as that tw@t, but pretty much every other cyclist he comes across.


Well, perhaps the next cyclist he comes across will follow him home and show his wife the video


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## 400bhp (31 Jul 2015)

Dan B said:


> Well, perhaps the next cyclist he comes across will follow him home and show his wife the video



He has a wife

Dread to think what happens if his tea isn't on the table when he gets home.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

400bhp said:


> He has a wife
> 
> Dread to think what happens if his tea isn't on the table when he gets home.


He chases her down the hallway and leaps under the vegetable rack, probably. But I'm only speculating based on the apparent age of his passenger.


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## Arjimlad (31 Jul 2015)

https://vid.me/XeuC

Set to Chariots of Fire !


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## glasgowcyclist (31 Jul 2015)

Phaeton said:


> You sure, I doubt he rode away without looking back over his shoulder



He says so on his youtube channel, and looking at how narrow that pavement is I expect his eyes were fixed ahead for any hazard.



Phaeton said:


> Yes, why not, he's clearly a middle aged man who took quite a fall



Yes, why not, it's not like he's a violent and furious man with anger management problems who has bust a gut chasing down a cyclist.


GC


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## ClichéGuevara (31 Jul 2015)

blazed said:


> Will never get tired of watching.



He even casts a shadow like a bell end.


----------



## 50000tears (31 Jul 2015)

Just re watched this. Driver is such a huge danger to cyclists with his lack of understanding of the Highway Code and his obvious belief that cyclist are 2nd class road users. Really wish the cyclist would report him as it looks only a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone.

As for the idea that the cyclist should return to see if a guy is OK who just assaulted him and then tried to knock him off his bike. Insane suggestion.


----------



## ClichéGuevara (31 Jul 2015)

I reckon Pappa Pig is the sort of ignorant slob that would be equally as angry with _anyone _that was limiting his use of his road, be they cyclists, car drivers or whatever, especially if they pointed out his piss poor attitude and driving instead of tugging their forelock to him.


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## Dan B (31 Jul 2015)

ClichéGuevara said:


> especially if they pointed out his piss poor attitude and driving instead of tugging their forelock to him.


Yeah, but it's a Peugeot 405


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## Spinney (31 Jul 2015)

Why should the cyclist have gone back even if he'd seen the slob fall? The slob had a passenger in the car who could have called the emergency services if necessary.


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## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)

.


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## Andrew_P (31 Jul 2015)

Took a fair bit of effort to get that much air with that much weight


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## Hitchington (31 Jul 2015)

HAHAHA! what a twat


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Jul 2015)

[/QUOTE]


glenn forger said:


> He didn't chase him down, he caught up with him on the same journey, which underlines how stupid and pointless the dangerous overtake was.


He did chase him down, either that or was riding round in circles.


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## doog (31 Jul 2015)

Globalti said:


> I'm not sure how it all started - it didn't look like a close pass to me. The cyclist was too aggressive for his own good and will get stabbed one day. Nice outcome though.



I tend to agree..the front facing shot doesnt look that close...however I wasnt there. The cyclist was too pumped up and obviously wanted to justify his camera expenditure


----------



## Bianchi boy (31 Jul 2015)

Imagine after falling in the road, a cyclist went past and ran him over


----------



## barachus (31 Jul 2015)

Hahahahahahaha

That was a very impressive semi recovery roll


----------



## glenn forger (31 Jul 2015)




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## Hip Priest (31 Jul 2015)

When the cyclist eventually caught up and told him he'd passed close, he should've just said "Sorry mate". Would've been over in seconds.


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## barachus (31 Jul 2015)

I don't understand why some people are blaming the cyclist
If he didn't follow it up we would never have got this wonderful moment on film 
For that alone he is forgiven any imagined fault he might be accused of


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## PedalCat (31 Jul 2015)

Alan Shearer would have said "He had every right to go down", which is the most annoying thing in football these days.

A thought: the diving loony is probably allowed to vote(!).


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## Accy cyclist (1 Aug 2015)

The cyclist could've ended it much sooner if only he'd took his bottle out the cage looking like he was about to take a drink,then threw the contents at Mr Angry.riding away into the sunset.


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## Gravity Aided (1 Aug 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Music for the gif of the actual fall:
> 
> 1/ Entrance of the Gladiators (you know, the circus music)
> 
> ...


5/ Samuel Barbers' Adagio for Strings(also Platoon)
6/Dance of the Sugar Plum Faeries from "The Nutcracker" By Tchaikovsky
7/ Pavane for a Dead Princess-Ravel

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQsgE0L450


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_f9B4pPtg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B45q0caSS0Y


----------



## Gravity Aided (1 Aug 2015)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1OVFParEck


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwyLeP9ApoA


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CceSRMmhv3w


----------



## Globalti (1 Aug 2015)

If that's how he conducts his life the driver will soon die of stress-related diesease. He may be related to the uncouth gum-chewing footballist Alex Ferguson - a former professional Scottish player once told me Ferguson had a reputation as a "diver" when he actually played football.


----------



## winjim (1 Aug 2015)

I see HuffPo have picked this up so I'm guessing it may go the same way as that Richmond coffee shop bloke.

http://huff.to/1Izp48k


----------



## PaulB (1 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> There's an American one doing the rounds where the motorist punches the biker in his helmet clad face, though hops about clutching his hand in agony.
> 
> To be fair, the cyclist in the OPs video is a fool. Why go looking for confrontation? Why risk getting stabbed, as happened just a few days ago? All the courts in the world can't undo being assaulted. The driver was an idiot, the close pass dangerous, he should've left it there and turned over his footage to the dibble.


Exactly. No one emerges from that with any credit. The cyclist was a prat and was only out-pratted by the prat in the Prateot. Alright, pratty-boy may have taken a comedic tumble (intoxication of some sort I reckon) but let's not forget the self-righteous cyclist was retreating at some knots. That hasn't gone unnoticed.


----------



## outlash (1 Aug 2015)

TBH, I'd have the hump too if I had to drive that heap of a car.


----------



## Hitchington (1 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> I see HuffPo have picked this up so I'm guessing it may go the same way as that Richmond coffee shop bloke.
> 
> http://huff.to/1Izp48k


I love the phrase "industrial language"


----------



## Gez73 (1 Aug 2015)

Does nothing for the next cyclist that crosses this disturbed and disturbing driver's path. Looked a little close but I have them every commute to be honest. Rider could gave tucked in and shoulder checked once the car had passed. Wouldn't ever consider approaching and challenging any driver for that. Camera wearing can sometimes have a use but that wasn't it. At the end of the day if you have your camera and probably your head taken off you have nothing by way of proof and I assume that was the drivers thought when he chased after the rider. He should be punished but as a cyclist I would not have bothered or took the chance camera or not. Will keep an eye on this to see what comes of it though. Gez


----------



## Hip Priest (1 Aug 2015)

PaulB said:


> (intoxication of some sort I reckon)



Nonsense. He tried to kick out at the cyclist whilst running, and lost balance.


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## PaulB (1 Aug 2015)

Hip Priest said:


> Nonsense. He tried to kick out at the cyclist whilst running, and lost balance.


No, look at his behaviour while still in the car. He's a rambling, unstable mess.


----------



## CopperCyclist (1 Aug 2015)

PaulB said:


> No, look at his behaviour while still in the car. He's a rambling, unstable mess.



Covers most people I deal with, and trust me intoxication isn't necessary - just any perceived slight to them!


----------



## Origamist (1 Aug 2015)

Gez73 said:


> Does nothing for the next cyclist that crosses this disturbed and disturbing driver's path. *Looked a little close *but I have them every commute to be honest. Rider could gave tucked in and shoulder checked once the car had passed. Wouldn't ever consider approaching and challenging any driver for that. Camera wearing can sometimes have a use but that wasn't it. At the end of the day if you have your camera and probably your head taken off you have nothing by way of proof and I assume that was the drivers thought when he chased after the rider. He should be punished but as a cyclist I would not have bothered or took the chance camera or not. Will keep an eye on this to see what comes of it though. Gez



Wing mirror looks about 6 inches from the rider. Far too close.


----------



## puffinbilly (1 Aug 2015)

There are several disturbing aspects to this -
1) The driver has clearly seen the finishing tape but as Usain Bolt approaches he dives for the tape and encroaches on several lanes.
2) The driver is unsure as to whether he is competing in the sprint, the long jump or the high jump.
3) He is living proof that indeed man can't fly.
4) That earth tremor that was reported in Reading never occurred. 






Keep the evidence and report if it's dangerous but avoid this sort of confrontation.


----------



## mickle (1 Aug 2015)

Way way too close. Nobbers like our Peugeot driving friend there need to be called out every time they pull one of these stupid hateful manoeuvres. A cheery wave is not an appropriate response to this sort of aggression. We need to call them out and wind them up with every encounter, and maybe one day we'll get through to them that they don't have the farking right. Either that or they pop a blood vessel, I don't mind either way.


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## Phaeton (1 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Wing mirror looks about 6 inches from the rider. Far too close.


Nah it's not, it's at least 18 inches, just to be clear I'm using the same pick a number evidence as you are


----------



## Foghat (1 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Can anyone provide an example of a time when chasing down a perceived bad driver and shouting at them has actually had the effect of them calmly and rationally debating the issue with the cyclist, reassessing and maybe improving their driving and their attitude?



Worked for me only two weeks ago. Encountered same WVM again this week at the same line of parked cars and he very noticeably adopted the behaviour he should have done previously, after my chase-and-severely-bollock routine.


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## Dan B (1 Aug 2015)

Gez73 said:


> Does nothing for the next cyclist that crosses this disturbed and disturbing driver's path


And diving into a safe gap _would_ have made the driver see the error of his ways? I doubt it, it would more likely have reinforced his superiority complex. 

It's made it to the Daily Mirror now: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shut-your-fking-mouth-watch-6174172

Someone somewhere who knows the driver is going to see it soon, if they haven't already, and give him some timely and appropriate advice about the manner of his driving.


----------



## Dan B (1 Aug 2015)

Phaeton said:


> Nah it's not, it's at least 18 inches, just to be clear I'm using the same pick a number evidence as you are


It's a long way short of three feet, whatever it is. But what I found interesting was to play the video at 0.25x from 0:05 onwards, and it's actually quite frightening that (1) the car's left hand edge starts pretty much in the centre of the field of view; (2) at no time does the driver seem to be steering, except for the bit where he veers leftwards.

You can quibble about the exact measurement all you like, but it is astonishingly poor driving.


----------



## Origamist (1 Aug 2015)

Phaeton said:


> Nah it's not, it's at least 18 inches, just to be clear I'm using the same pick a number evidence as you are



Remember, the camera is seat post mounted and the rider's elbows are likely to be, at the very least, another 8 inches further out, i.e. considerably closer to the protruding wing mirror.

If passing distance roulette is not your thing, I hope you can agree it's still far too close to pass a cyclist.


----------



## Origamist (1 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> And diving into a safe gap _would_ have made the driver see the error of his ways? I doubt it, it would more likely have reinforced his superiority complex.
> 
> It's made it to the Daily Mirror now: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shut-your-fking-mouth-watch-6174172
> 
> Someone somewhere who knows the driver is going to see it soon, if they haven't already, and give him some timely and appropriate advice about the manner of his driving.



I suspect the driver or a family member has seen it as the uploader states he has received a privacy complaint from YouTube...


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## Dan B (1 Aug 2015)

According to the youtube comments


uphillfreewheeler said:


> The driver was arrested by Thames Valley Police today. He admitted a public order offence, threats to commit criminal damage, and assault. He received a caution.


and if that doesn't make him wind his neck in next time, what will?


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## Crandoggler (1 Aug 2015)

Both were idiots.

Personally I try to make life easier for the road user, It usually makes my life easier in the process. I do have a short fuse though and if someone isn't observing my hand signal to pass me, then bollocks to you, you can wait. I do tend to raise arms when people get too close and will often choose exuberant language if they have their window down. 

I don't follow people to directly confront them and anger them though. There is absolutely no point! I'm out on my bike to relax, not to deliberately get a rise out of someone.


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## Citius (1 Aug 2015)

The guy is from the Henley-on-Thames area, if that's useful. Shouldn't be too hard to spot him or his car....not many of them on the road these days...


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## Gravity Aided (2 Aug 2015)

The fellow did quite well say he was going to kill the cyclist in the first confrontation, and threaten him with force once after, although he is quite hard to understand generally. The cyclist certainly was doing little to avoid the situation, or to defuse it. Better just to get a license number and report it, and let the police get a view of this rather interesting behavior themselves, first hand.


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## slowmotion (2 Aug 2015)

I wasn't on the bike so I don't know what the cyclist felt. It depends on what you are used to, and your readiness for outrage, probably made a bit keener by having a cam on your bike. As a London commuter, it didn't look that close to me. I've probably been brutalised.


----------



## LCpl Boiled Egg (2 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> According to the youtube comments
> 
> and if that doesn't make him wind his neck in next time, what will?



A fine? Temporary driving ban? Community service? Something more than a slap on the wrist which us effectively what he was given. 

He's used his car as a weapon, verbally abused and then physically assaulted a complete stranger, and just been told not to do it again.

He's still driving but now has even more of an excuse (in his mind) to hate cyclists.


----------



## LCpl Boiled Egg (2 Aug 2015)

Gravity Aided said:


> The fellow did quite well say he was going to kill the cyclist in the first confrontation, and threaten him with force once after, although he is quite hard to understand generally. The cyclist certainly was doing little to avoid the situation, or to defuse it. Better just to get a license number and report it, and let the police get a view of this rather interesting behavior themselves, first hand.



Like the guy I reported for a close pass and a threat to jump up and down on my farking head'? When the police spoke to him he claimed he couldn't remember anything about it. At least this tool is on video so can't lie about what he did and said.


----------



## ufkacbln (2 Aug 2015)

I prefer liveried vans

Had an incident where there is a central island so I was in "primary" 

As I pulled left the following van pulled alongside then cut in front to the kerb. Got out and explained (impolitely) that if I ever got in his way again he would run me over, then reverse to finish the job


Emailed the company with the video and a copy of the IAM factsheet explaining primary, asking if this was there normal standard 

It wasn't ...

Very apologetic letter from their manager and the driver was dismissed

Biggest lesson with these incidents is that if you remain calm, civil and polite - then there is no argument that you provoked or worsened the situation


----------



## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

ABikeCam said:


> A fine? Temporary driving ban? Community service? Something more than a slap on the wrist which us effectively what he was given.


A slap on the wrist which will show up in background checks if he ever needs one for a job, though I do agree I'd have liked to see more . But if the cyclist had just ducked left and not even confronted the driver, do you think there would have been any repercussions at all?


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

People drive hurrendously no matter which form of transport other road users are on or in. 

This is nothing new and many take great offence to people stating their driving faults. Road rage is quite common for people who usually wouldn't say boo to a goose, so it's no wonder that when an idiot on a bike decides to film them and further embarrass or criticise their driving, they get very angry. 

Just because you own a bike doesn't mean that every road user should bow down to you. I believe it's a bit of give and take. 

The real work needs to be done at the foundation stages by the instructor and further pressed during testing, both theory and practical.


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

Maybe a cycling test should be taken? I can imagine that would cause a stir within the community.


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## PhilDawson8270 (2 Aug 2015)

Lots of fun to be had.


----------



## PhilDawson8270 (2 Aug 2015)




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## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

That wasn't a test was it. You were about 10 years old and went for a jolly with your teacher and an instructor. Hardly grounds for commuting in London.

Poor standards of driving are everywhere. I'm not condoning it, I'm saying deal with it.

It's not worth the risk, stress and extra energy to confront a driver. What if that person is indeed a nutter? He missed you by 2 ft, close, but you're still alive. However, he might fancy battering you for stopping to let him know that he nearly clipped you.

Anyway, that's enough. Driver was in the wrong, so string him up. Cyclist could have continued his journey and not caused any of this to ever happen.


----------



## Mugshot (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Just because you own a car doesn't mean that every road user should bow down to you. I believe it's a bit of give and take.


FTFY


----------



## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> It's not worth the risk, stress and extra energy to confront a driver.


To you its not worth it :that's fine, nobody's asking you to. But it doesn't follow that everybody else has the same priorities


----------



## ufkacbln (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Maybe a cycling test should be taken? I can imagine that would cause a stir within the community.




IIRC 80% of cyclist also drive so presumably have passed a test equivalent to all the car drivers out there


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

Does that mean I can also drive an HGV? And a motorcycle? It's not one size fits all, is it. Please, by all means keep stopping drivers and telling them that they're peanuts. It'll do nothing more than raise your blood pressure and probably theirs too. I prefer shouting and raising my arms. 

You carry out cycling proficiency at year 5 in school. That's a good 7 years before you can step foot in a car.


----------



## Foghat (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> It's not worth the risk, stress and extra energy to confront a driver.



Bollocks. You must have missed the post where I presented a perfect example of how confronting a dangerous driver has produced the desired result - probably for the benefit of all cyclists he comes across in perpetuity, judging by the way he avoided making the same mistake again (you're welcome).

How the horse's arse is that not 'dealing with it'? I've done it many times in the past too.

Maybe you don't fancy the risk, that's up to you, but don't try telling us we shouldn't confront drivers on their poor behaviour in an effort to improve cyclists' safety.


----------



## Citius (2 Aug 2015)

I tend to agree with Crandoggler. If you're driving your car, and another driver cuts you up, do you turn round and chase them with the intent of stopping them and discussing their mistake? No?

Having said that, it was worth doing on this occasion, if only for the fantastically entertaining video.


----------



## PhilDawson8270 (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Does that mean I can also drive an HGV? And a motorcycle? It's not one size fits all, is it



No but if you have a Cat B license for cars, you can also ride a 50cc moped, so surely a Cat B is suitable for a bicycle?

I have a Cat B, and a Cat A, for what benefit would a cycling license be?

What age should licensing start? Are people under that age allowed to cycle without a license?


----------



## winjim (2 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> I tend to agree with Crandoggler. If you're driving your car, and another driver cuts you up, do you turn round and chase them with the intent of stopping them and discussing their mistake? No?


Indeed. And since the conversation has turned to tests, one of the driving theory tests is what to do if someone cuts you up? Options are something like sound your horn, flash your lights etc. Correct answer is of course don't get angry, fall back to a safe distance and carry on your journey in a safe and responsible manner.


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

Well that's me told then. Best hang up my helmet and Lycra.


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Indeed. And since the conversation has turned to tests, one of the driving theory tests is what to do if someone cuts you up? Options are something like sound your horn, flash your lights etc. Correct answer is of course don't get angry, fall back to a safe distance and carry on your journey in a safe and responsible manner.


Well it's wrong then isn't it. It should read, 'follow driver until they reach a stopping place, pull alongside and tell them they cut you up.' After that; 'waste more police resources by calling 999 because some fat prat decided to take a swing at you because you filmed him being provoked.' Much better.


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

All jesting aside. Do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.


----------



## glenn forger (2 Aug 2015)

The rider didn't report anything to the police, why are you angry at stuff that didn't happen?


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

Generally, from the many videos I've seen, they state that they are going to report the driver to the police. As did the man who recorded this beauty.


----------



## winjim (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Generally, from the many videos I've seen, they state that they are going to report the driver to the police. As did the man who recorded this beauty.


Empty threat as it turned out.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-ragers-should-wear-helmets.184835/post-3829320


----------



## Origamist (2 Aug 2015)

The driver could have waited 5 seconds and passed the cyclist when it was more sensible to do so. This initiated the subsequent events.

The driver could also have apologised and then driven away, instead of entertaining the cyclist for a few minutes.

The driver could have put a seat belt on.

The driver could have avoided making threats to kill.

The driver could have stayed in his car and not attempted to grab the camera.

The driver could have avoided chasing and attempting to kick the cyclist.

As it is, social media justice although rather ugly at times, is an apt and effective punishment for Mr Face Plant.


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Aug 2015)

I for one am sick of the poor quality of walking these days.

Even if we forget those with simply a poor gait, on any given journey I am likely to be cut up, bumped into (Common Assault by the way) and even have my toes stepped on.

When will this calamity be put right and people required to sit Walking Tests before they are allowed out in the Wilds of London?


----------



## Gravity Aided (2 Aug 2015)

This is why I prefer cycling. walking is far too dangerous, especially for the uninitiated. (and, as I have always had tendon Achilles, my walk is somewhat impeded any way). I look better on a bicycle, in reference to locomotion.


----------



## mickle (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> People drive hurrendously no matter which form of transport other road users are on or in.
> 
> This is nothing new and many take great offence to people stating their driving faults. Road rage is quite common for people who usually wouldn't say boo to a goose, so it's no wonder that when an idiot on a bike decides to film them and further embarrass or criticise their driving, they get very angry.
> 
> ...



Sorry, that's complete tripe on every level. Can I just ask, whose side are you actually on?


----------



## MarkF (2 Aug 2015)

mickle said:


> Sorry, that's complete tripe on every level. Can I just ask, whose side are you actually on?



"Taking sides" doesn't sound good to me. 

A hugely embarrassing vid for both the driver and rider.


----------



## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

MarkF said:


> "Taking sides" doesn't sound good to me.
> 
> A hugely embarrassing vid for both the driver and rider.


Absolutely. I'm on whoever's side is in the right. In this case, the cyclist. I also drive a car funnily enough, and get just as angry when cyclists make poor decisions. I don't pull up next to them and tell them though, because I'd be seen as the lunatic motorist.


----------



## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

I get much angrier when commercial pilots make poor decisions than when riders of micro scooters do. Is this double standards?


----------



## ufkacbln (2 Aug 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> IIRC 80% of cyclist also drive so presumably have passed a test equivalent to all the car drivers out there





Crandoggler said:


> Does that mean I can also drive an HGV?


Nope - it isn't a car


> And a motorcycle?


Nope - it isn't a car



> It's not one size fits all, is it. Please, by all means keep stopping drivers and telling them that they're peanuts. It'll do nothing more than raise your blood pressure and probably theirs too. I prefer shouting and raising my arms.
> 
> You carry out cycling proficiency at year 5 in school. That's a good 7 years before you can step foot in a car.



That will be the other 20%


----------



## 400bhp (2 Aug 2015)

Almost 2.5m views now on farcebook


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## doog (2 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Wing mirror looks about 6 inches from the rider. Far too close.
> 
> 
> View attachment 98528



If thats six inches then the cyclist is five feet from his nearside (excessive). The road looks wide enough to accommodate both vehicles....what followed is an embarrassment and no Im not on anyone's side.


----------



## 400bhp (2 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> If thats six inches then the cyclist is five feet from his nearside (excessive). The road looks wide enough to accommodate both vehicles....what followed is an embarrassment and no Im not anyone's side.



DOOR ZONE


----------



## doog (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> DOOR ZONE



of course but the cyclist simply cant dominate that road or the country would come to a standstill ffs....thats a wide piece of tarmac...was he approaching a junction and in primary or just being a bit of an arse ?


----------



## 400bhp (2 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> of course but the cyclist simply cant dominate that road or the country would come to a standstill ffs....thats a wide piece of tarmac...was he approaching a junction and in primary or just be a bit of an arse ?



utter bollox

he's on a side street and he can do what the fark he likes to keep himself what he perceives to be safe.

Do you ride in the door zone?


----------



## doog (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> utter bollox
> 
> he's on a side street and he can do what the fark he likes to keep himself what he perceives to be safe.
> 
> Do you ride in the door zone?



The door zone aint five feet into the centre of the road and no he cant do what the fark he likes


----------



## mickle (2 Aug 2015)

Wouldn't it be great if we had some kind of CC CSI team on permanent standby that could descend on the scene of an incident like this and plot it all out with flags on sticks, cardboard cut-outs of cyclists, life-sized papiermache models of Peugeot 405s and inflatable pigskin renditions of twunts and report back that indeed yes, or regretfully no the passing distance was plus or minus 1.5 metres (the internationally accepted minimum overtaking distance of a car passing a cyclist). And then 50% of the the contributors to threads such as this (after reading and understanding what is meant by the word 'primary') would be free to shut the fark up?


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## 400bhp (2 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> The door zone aint five feet into the centre of the road and no he cant do what the fark he likes



The door zone is about 5 feet.

He can do what he likes to protect his safety.

So you would presumably drive past him the same way because you thought he was in the wrong.


----------



## winjim (2 Aug 2015)

I was about to post


> Gap between car and parking bay looks about half a car's width to me, so maybe 2' to 3'



Then I read mickle's post so now I shan't.


----------



## Lemond (2 Aug 2015)

Did look like a lot of fuss over nothing. Driver seems like a thoroughly unpleasant chap, but was there really need for the confrontation in the first place?


----------



## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> The door zone aint five feet into the centre of the road and no he cant do what the fark he likes


I think you probably haven't measured it


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPA-ZcYGT94


----------



## doog (2 Aug 2015)

400bhp said:


> The door zone is about 5 feet.
> 
> He can do what he likes to protect his safety.
> 
> So you would presumably drive past him the same way because you thought he was in the wrong.




That road looks big enough for a safe overtake if both parties played ball, clearly the cyclist chose not too. He was looking for confrontation, could have and should have let the mpv safely pass him.

No wonder we are looked upon as a part baked bunch of lunatics by certain members of society.


----------



## doog (2 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> I think you probably haven't measured it
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPA-ZcYGT94




is that footage from the scene ?


----------



## Origamist (2 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> If thats six inches then the cyclist is five feet from his nearside (excessive). The road looks wide enough to accommodate both vehicles....what followed is an embarrassment and no Im not on anyone's side.



I'd estimate around 4 feet from elbow to the parked VW, but some parked cars are further away from the kerb (the silver Merc for example) and the cyclist's lateral position fluctuates - so he is closer at different times. However, whether it's 4 or 5 feet, the driver could still have held back for a few seconds. If he was a slightly better driver (but still poor) he could have overtaken and given the rider another foot of passing distance. As it was, his driving was inept.

The HC is quite clear that cyclists should ride beyond the arc of an opening car door. If you choose to do otherwise to facilitate motorists that's your prerogative, but I'd recommend (as does Bikeability) that you give parked and stationary vehicles a wide birth.


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## glenn forger (2 Aug 2015)

If you've got flat bars and you get doored it could catch you between your knuckles and split your hand wide open. Or, imagine getting doored and you've got Mr sweary Peugeot right up your 'arris, you'd be under his wheels.


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## Racing roadkill (2 Aug 2015)

The driver was a tool, but I've had my bars twanged round that neck of the woods, what you see in the video is chicken shyte.


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## doog (2 Aug 2015)

glenn forger said:


> If you've got flat bars and you get doored it could catch you between your knuckles and split your hand wide open. Or, imagine getting doored and you've got Mr sweary Peugeot right up your 'arris, you'd be under his wheels.



yeah, never seen a 5 foot car door but just in case Im going to choose to be a bit of an arse and get some mileage out of my multiple camera set up...


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## Origamist (2 Aug 2015)

mickle said:


> Wouldn't it be great if we had some kind of CC CSI team on permanent standby that could descend on the scene of an incident like this and plot it all out with flags on sticks, cardboard cut-outs of cyclists, life-sized papiermache models of Peugeot 405s and inflatable pigskin renditions of twunts and report back that indeed yes, or regretfully no the passing distance was plus or minus 1.5 metres (the internationally accepted minimum overtaking distance of a car passing a cyclist). And then 50% of the the contributors to threads such as this (after reading and understanding what is meant by the word 'primary') would be free to shut the fark up?



When it comes to cycle cam film I'm CC's very own Inspector Clouseau... where do I sign up?


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## growingvegetables (2 Aug 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> You carry out cycling proficiency at year 5 in school.


Wrong.

You MAY sit Bikeability 1, or even 2 - at the discretion of the school; last I heard, Bikeability was only available in 60% of primary schools in Leeds. Bikeability level 3 is theoretically available for secondary school students, but the figures are miniscule.


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## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

Racing roadkill said:


> The driver was a tool, but I've had my bars twanged round that neck of the woods, what you see in the video is chicken shyte.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo#t=0m56

(For the benefit of doog, no, this is not footage from the scene)


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## Dan B (2 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> When it comes to cycle cam film I'm CC's very own Inspector Clouseau... where do I sign up?


Over there -> the queue is about 18" in that direction


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## Crandoggler (2 Aug 2015)

growingvegetables said:


> Wrong.
> 
> You MAY sit Bikeability 1, or even 2 - at the discretion of the school; last I heard, Bikeability was only available in 60% of primary schools in Leeds. Bikeability level 3 is theoretically available for secondary school students, but the figures are miniscule.



Thanks. I'm not sure if you're trying to contest me or reinforce my statement though. Either way, it has little to no effect on the general population using a road on a bicycle. I think the man told me my tyres were a bit worn when I did mine.


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## doog (2 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo#t=0m56
> 
> (For the benefit of doog, no, this is not footage from the scene)





why is it for my benefit dan ? Whats your point ?


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> why is it for my benefit dan ? Whats your point ?


Just trying to save you having to ask the question again


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> That road looks big enough for a safe overtake if both parties played ball, clearly the cyclist chose not too. He was looking for confrontation, could have and should have let the mpv safely pass him.


Do you think the rider should have been dodging in and out of the gaps between the parked cars or that he should have been riding closer to the parked cars, or maybe a little of both?


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## benb (3 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> If thats six inches then the cyclist is five feet from his nearside (excessive). The road looks wide enough to accommodate both vehicles





doog said:


> That road looks big enough for a safe overtake if both parties played ball



Doog old chap, you need to brush up on your cyclecraft, because the things you have said above are worrying. 
On that road you ought be riding primary - there isn't room for a cyclist to ride clear of the door zone and still have enough room for a safe overtake.


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## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

doog said:


> yeah, never seen a 5 foot car door but just in case Im going to choose to be a bit of an arse and get some mileage out of my multiple camera set up...



Most car doors fall within the 3 to 4 and half feet bracket when fully opened. However, you need to give yourself a further safety margin and this is why a minimum passing distance of 5ft is generally recommended.

Bikeability training is also available for adults and it can be subsidized by your local authority. It might be worth checking to see if you qualify: https://bikeability.org.uk/


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## clid61 (3 Aug 2015)

pricks , pair of them . Move along nothing to see here


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

All the posters saying that the cyclist should have done nothing do any of you think it's ever acceptable to approach a motorist whose driving you feel was well below par and if you do when is that?

When they've hit you?
When they've nearly hit your mate?
When they've hit your mate?
When they've nearly hit one of your family members?
When they've hit one of your family members?

Or never ever because doing so would give all of us a bad name and besides it's our own fault for being in the way?


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## PhilDawson8270 (3 Aug 2015)

If you go looking for confrontation, rightly or wrongly, you will meet somebody willing to give it out.

He was lucky to get a tarmac diver, it could have easily been somebody with a knife. He has a camera, he has it on film, he wasn't touched. If he genuinely felt like his safety was at risk by the pass, he could quite easily pass the details and evidence onto the police.

If somebody passes you a bit close in a car, do you park next to them, and tell them how stupid they were? I reckon most of the time, people that make a mistake will apologise, but those making a stupid pass like that, aren't likely to give you a nice heartly apology.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> All the posters saying that the cyclist should have done nothing do any of you think it's ever acceptable to approach a motorist whose driving you feel was well below par and if you do when is that?



As this incident shows, it's probably not a good idea. Had the driver not fallen over who knows what would have happened had he caught hold of the cyclist. Would it have been worth it then? Sadly, suffering a close pass comes with the territory; it's not pleasant, it shouldn't happen, but it's not worth putting yourself in further harms way.


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## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> If you go looking for confrontation, rightly or wrongly, you will meet somebody willing to give it out.
> 
> He was lucky to get a tarmac diver, it could have easily been somebody with a knife. He has a camera, he has it on film, he wasn't touched. *If he genuinely felt like his safety was at risk by the pass, he could quite easily pass the details and evidence onto the police.*
> 
> If somebody passes you a bit close in a car, do you park next to them, and tell them how stupid they were? I reckon most of the time, people that make a mistake will apologise, but those making a stupid pass like that, aren't likely to give you a nice heartly apology.



He could, but it is likely that the police would do nothing. It is this perceived lack of accountability, enforcement and justice where careless and dangerous driving is concerned that cultivates the burgeoning camera and YouTube phenomenon. Social media retribution/justice fills the void for some people (nearly 2 million hits on YouTube for this video alone).

Is this online ridicule more or less effective than a talking to by a police officer for the poor overtake - I don't really know...but with no guarantee of even low-level police action, I can understand why people resort to a 21st century version of the stocks.


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## PhilDawson8270 (3 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> He could, but it is likely that the police would do nothing. It is this perceived lack of accountability, enforcement and justice for careless and dangerous driving that cultivates the burgeoning camera and YouTube phenomenon. Social media retribution/justice fills the void for some people (nearly 2 million hits on YouTube for this video alone).
> 
> Is this online ridicule more or less effective than a talking to by a police officer for the poor overtake - I don't really know...but with no guarantee of even low-level police action, I can understand why people resort to a 21st century version of the stocks.



But if you choose to question, and antagonise somebody with such little care for your safety anyway. Being assaulted shouldn't come as a surprise.

It's like poking an angry dog, it's funny till it bites, then it's all the dogs fault for biting.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> *He could, but it is likely that the police would do nothing*. It is this perceived lack of accountability, enforcement and justice for careless and dangerous driving that cultivates the burgeoning camera and YouTube phenomenon. Social media retribution/justice fills the void for some people (nearly 2 million hits on YouTube for this video alone).
> 
> Is this online ridicule more or less effective than a talking to by a police officer for the poor overtake - I don't really know...but with no guarantee of even low-level police action, I can understand why people resort to a 21st century version of the stocks.



Do we really expect the police to act on a close pass? Assuming this would fall under careless / dangerous driving, could that even be proved based on the video evidence available? Seems like a monumental waste of time and resources.


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## theclaud (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> It's like poking an angry dog



No - it's like resisting being bullied by another person.


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## Andrew_P (3 Aug 2015)

I have had encounters with reckless drivers from all walks of life and a lot of them anyone of sane mind wouldn't have confronted a van full of workmen, but that burst of adrenalin on top of the exercise sometimes I just cannot help myself. In the great scheme of things I still view it as a further risk to my safety. 

Sitting here at my laptop in the cold light of day ignoring the tossers is the best course of action but on the road with the burst of adrenalin it is sometimes too hard to resist. Not once has there been a positive outcome from the confrontation.


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## PhilDawson8270 (3 Aug 2015)

theclaud said:


> No - it's like resisting being bullied by another person.



So there's a choice to make.

Ignore it, go about your day with no further risk caused by this guy. Or, go and get yourself involved with him again, but not be surprised with an attempted assault.

Eventually confronting every driver you're not happy with, you will come across somebody bigger, stronger, and tougher. Some cyclists seem to like to put themselves in harms way, to complain about being in harms way.


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## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> Do we really expect the police to act on a close pass? Assuming this would fall under careless / dangerous driving, could that even be proved based on the video evidence available? Seems like a monumental waste of time and resources.



“Close passes” (aka poor driving) comes in many forms – a close overtake by a HGV at 45mph feels different to a close pass by a car at 45mph. A close pass at 3ft at 70mph feels very different to a 3ft pass at 25mph. Some close passes are done with the intent to scare or hurt (“punishment passes”), others are done through ignorance and/or negligence. As such, I’d expect the police to make a decision based on the particular circumstances.

I think it is important that poor driving is reported as it creates a pool of intelligence that will help to identify repeat offenders and provide a more detailed picture of “everyday” poor road behaviour. Whether the police have the time to act on every incident is going to be contingent on time and resources, but given that traffic pol numbers have massively declined over the last ten years, that’s not likely. However, at the very least these incidents should be reported and I’m glad to see that more constabularies are providing an online reporting form for poor driving.


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## Deafie (3 Aug 2015)

The cyclist could have pulled out of primary without inconveniencing himself as there was just one car and not a long line of traffic trying to get past.
His self righteous attitude was provocative from the start. Obviously the motorists behavior was no better and he got the poetic justice he deserved.
When encountering adolescent nobbers like this it's best to just take a deep breath and wait for them to move on.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

User13710 said:


> Some cyclists are just riding along minding their own business when some thoughtless driver puts them in harm's way. But never mind, just let them get away with it. After all, cars and their drivers are more important than cyclists.



Just report them to the police if you think it's worth it. Don't follow and confront them and put yourself in further harms way. A close pass doesn't hurt. A punch in the chops does.


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## PhilDawson8270 (3 Aug 2015)

User13710 said:


> Some cyclists are just riding along minding their own business when some thoughtless driver puts them in harm's way. But never mind, just let them get away with it. After all, cars and their drivers are more important than cyclists.



I never said that, what I did say is if they choose to confront. They shouldn't be surprised to meet aggression. It's not right, but it's reality.


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## Crandoggler (3 Aug 2015)

Which was the point I was trying to make.


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## benborp (3 Aug 2015)

FFS! A close pass can put a cyclist in hospital, subject them to numerous operations and put them in pain for the rest of their life. Anti-social driving isn't just an inconvenience it can rip lives and families apart. I know both of these things from personal experience. I also know how ineffective the police can be even in the clearest cut case of critical injury to a vulnerable road user caused by criminal driving. I don't stand back and allow strangers to carry out physical, emotional or sexual violence when I encounter it and for my troubles I've been bitten, throttled, kicked, threatened. Despite that I'm not willing to stand back and watch others cause damage. The same goes for when I encounter such behaviour on the roads. Seeing as being passive, smiling, raising an eyebrow or calmly asking if someone is OK attract as much opprobrium as standing my ground and in my experience attract more determined attempts at violence than my being calculatedly aggressive what the fark have I got to loose? From where I am and where I've been I'd much rather peanuts such as this driver are challenged.


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## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> But if you choose to question, and antagonise somebody with such little care for your safety anyway. Being assaulted shouldn't come as a surprise.
> 
> It's like poking an angry dog, it's funny till it bites, then it's all the dogs fault for biting.



Well, this video is funny and popular *because* the angry and violent bully gets his comeuppance - man bites pavement. And whilst it's a simple cartoon on one level, it is also a parable about road danger, powerlessness and how cameras are a symptom of a skewed driving culture that normalizes poor road craft and, the consequences that routinely go unpunished. In addition, when people consider pointing out how they were endangered, scared or made anxious they are warned off with the spectre of "road rage". Plus ça change...


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## cd365 (3 Aug 2015)

I laughed out loud at the end, really funny and he got his comeuppance. The embarrassment from social media will sting a lot more though!


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## SteveF (3 Aug 2015)

More of the cyclist's "work" here: 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cawXdgL5cwg

Looking at his youtube posts he does appear to be an active poster and doesn't shy away from confrontation, I firmly believe he chased the explosive motorist down to get his point across


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## Deafie (3 Aug 2015)

I agree that dangerous drivers should be confronted (I do it regularly) but in a calm and sober fashion so as not to exacerbate a situation. it is much more effective in getting ones point across being calm and factual than emotional and self righteous.
If the cyclist in the video we are discussing had pulled out of primary for a few seconds we would not be having this discussion. I ride every day in a city noted for its aggressive drivers and since adopting a less militant attitude I have been safer and better treated by other road users. I firmly believe that you have to give a little to get a little.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (3 Aug 2015)

Deafie said:


> I agree that dangerous drivers should be confronted (I do it regularly) but in a calm and sober fashion so as not to exacerbate a situation. it is much more effective in getting ones point across being calm and factual than emotional and self righteous. *If the cyclist in the video we are discussing had pulled out of primary for a few seconds we would not be having this discussion.* I ride every day in a city noted for its aggressive drivers and since adopting a less militant attitude I have been safer and better treated by other road users. I firmly believe that you have to give a little to get a little.



In other words - CYCLISTS! Know your place! The motorist's journey is more important than your safety.


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## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

Deafie said:


> I agree that dangerous drivers should be confronted (I do it regularly) but in a calm and sober fashion so as not to exacerbate a situation. it is much more effective in getting ones point across being calm and factual than emotional and self righteous.
> If the cyclist in the video we are discussing had pulled out of primary for a few seconds we would not be having this discussion. I ride every day in a city noted for its aggressive drivers and since adopting a less militant attitude I have been safer and better treated by other road users. I firmly believe that you have to give a little to get a little.



The driver in the video was not delayed by the cyclist – he plowed straight past, only a matter of inches from the cyclist. When the overtake starts, the cyclist is just clearing the silver VW Golf. He barely has a chance to utilise the parking bays to his left "to give a little". I suspect the cyclist thought that the driver would stay behind him for a few seconds as that is what most sensible drivers would do in the same situation. Perhaps if there were lots of opportunities for the cyclist to move left and the driver had been needlessly delayed for a considerable period, I could understand what you are saying, but this is not the case in the video.


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## PhilDawson8270 (3 Aug 2015)

ABikeCam said:


> In other words - CYCLISTS! Know your place! The motorist's journey is more important than your safety.



Not really, It's nice to be courteous and give way to faster traffic when it is safe to do so. It's irritating being stuck behind slow moving tractors that don't move over when safe too.

As a cyclist, if I get to a space that I can pull in to, to let traffic past, before a safe passing point I will do.


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## Deafie (3 Aug 2015)

ABikeCam said:


> In other words - CYCLISTS! Know your place! The motorist's journey is more important than your safety.


What I am trying to get across, to cyclists and motorists alike, is that if road users had a little more consideration for each other situations like the one being discussed would be avoided, there is no profit to be had in acting out like spoiled children, It achieves nothing. What we are talking about here is lives and safety so is it better to act out our emotions for short term gratification or employ our intelligence to achieve safer more harmonious road conditions. Nob heads will always exist but behaving like nob heads is not the way to reduce nobbish nobbery!


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

ABikeCam said:


> In other words - CYCLISTS! Know your place! The motorist's journey is more important than your safety.



That's not what Deafie meant at all. How about we just accept that we share the road space with other users? Pulling to one side to let another vehicle pass costs nothing. Everybody's happy, no swearing, no fisticuffs.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> He has a camera, he has it on film, he wasn't touched. If he genuinely felt like his safety was at risk by the pass, he could quite easily pass the details and evidence onto the police.



And what if he didn't have a camera?



PhilDawson8270 said:


> Being assaulted shouldn't come as a surprise.





PhilDawson8270 said:


> but not be surprised with an attempted assault.



Now it's a possibility that you could be assaulted and to be honest I'd much rather not get a smack in the chops, but I will not let some bullying tosser who thinks they can act in whatever way they like with absolutely no repercussions push me around, I don't accept it in the supermarket queue, I don't accept it walking along the pavement and I don't accept it on the bike. The trouble is the more people kowtow to bullies the more the bullies bully. It reminds me of something I heard about wildebeests and lions, if all the wildebeests decided one day that enough was enough and stood up the the lions, the lions would be screwed, but they don't they keep running away and getting picked off one by one. The fact is that we should be surprised if we get assaulted, it shouldn't be accepted as the norm!!

Not picking on your posts BTW Phil.


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## Rooster1 (3 Aug 2015)

Reading, got to love this town. Yes, town - they won't make it a city. Not with idiots like that driving around it.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Not really, It's nice to be courteous and give way to faster traffic when it is safe to do so. It's irritating being stuck behind slow moving tractors that don't move over when safe too.
> 
> As a cyclist, if I get to a space that I can pull in to, to let traffic past, before a safe passing point I will do.



Quite right. And it's not like drivers never do the same for cyclists, is it? I get waived through all the time.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Deafie said:


> *What I am trying to get across, to cyclists and motorists alike, is that if road users had a little more consideration for each other situations like the one being discussed would be avoided*, there is no profit to be had in acting out like spoiled children, It achieves nothing. What we are talking about here is lives and safety so is it better to act out our emotions for short term gratification or employ our intelligence to achieve safer more harmonious road conditions. Nob heads will always exist but behaving like nob heads is not the way to reduce nobbish nobbery!


That would be nice, however generally the current expectation (on the road and rather sadly by some here too) is that the consideration for others should only come from one party.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> That would be nice, however generally the current expectation (on the road and rather sadly by some here too) is that the consideration for others should only come from one party.



I think you've been listening to the militant wing of Cycle Chat for too long!


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> I think you've been listening to the militant wing of Cycle Chat for too long!


Meaning?


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (3 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Not really, It's nice to be courteous and give way to faster traffic when it is safe to do so. It's irritating being stuck behind slow moving tractors that don't move over when safe too.
> 
> As a cyclist, if I get to a space that I can pull in to, to let traffic past, before a safe passing point I will do.



We're not talking about a country road with a tractor, we're talking about a road in a town with cars parked up on either side. It's nowhere near the same situation.



Deafie said:


> What I am trying to get across, to cyclists and motorists alike, is that if road users had a little more consideration for each other situations like the one being discussed would be avoided, there is no profit to be had in acting out like spoiled children, It achieves nothing. What we are talking about here is lives and safety so is it better to act out our emotions for short term gratification or employ our intelligence to achieve safer more harmonious road conditions. Nob heads will always exist but behaving like nob heads is not the way to reduce nobbish nobbery!



I'll try to remember that the next time someone in a car squeezes past me at a pinch-point.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Meaning?



That there's far too much "them and us" going on. We all share the road; nobody has more rights than anyone else. But that always seems to be forgotten or ignored. In one 20 mile ride yesterday I saw one cyclist blast through a red light and another fail to give way at a mini roundabout, causing a car to break sharply. I also saw two or three largish groups riding in a very courteous and considerate manner. And I had two cars stop and wave me though on a very narrow single carriageway when they could have easily passed. There are good and bad drivers and good and bad cyclists.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> That there's far too much "them and us" going on. We all share the road; nobody has more rights than anyone else.


So in the context of the video do you believe that the cyclist is creating the them and us or the motorist, do you believe that one of the people involved in that video thinks they have more rights that somebody else and if you do which one do you think it is?


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> So in the context of the video do you believe that the cyclist is creating the them and us or the motorist, do you believe that one of the people involved in that video thinks they have more rights that somebody else and if you do which one do you think it is?



I think the actions of the driver and the cyclist were wrong. I also think the entire situation could have been avoided had the cyclist simply pulled in and let the driver pass. And that decision would have had nothing to do with who is the more important road user; just one road user showing another road user a little bit of common courtesy.


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## summerdays (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> I think the actions of the driver and the cyclist were wrong. I also think the entire situation could have been avoided had the cyclist simply pulled in and let the driver pass. And that decision would have had nothing to do with who is the more important road user; just one road user showing another road user a little bit of common courtesy.


Wouldn't the reverse be true as well?


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> I think the actions of the driver and the cyclist were wrong. I also think the entire situation could have been avoided had the cyclist simply pulled in and let the driver pass. And that decision would have had nothing to do with who is the more important road user; just one road user showing another road user a little bit of common courtesy.


Which doesn't actually answer what I asked, do you think that one of the people involved in that video believes they have a greater right to be on the road then the other, if you do which one is it?


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> Wouldn't the reverse be true as well?



Absolutely!


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## Markymark (3 Aug 2015)

Yet to see a car pull over for me when cycling home and in london I'm much faster than the cars.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Which doesn't actually answer what I asked, do you think that one of the people involved in that video believes they have a greater right to be on the road then the other, if you do which one is it?



How can I possibly know that?


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> How can I possibly know that?


I'm sorry Lemond, I had made the asumption that you had watched the video and had listened to the exchanges between the cyclist and the motorist.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> I'm sorry Lemond, I had made the asumption that you had watched the video and had listened to the exchanges between the cyclist and the motorist.



As I've said before, I don't think either of them come out it very well.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> As I've said before, I don't think either of them come out it very well.


Ok, let me help you out.
The guy in the car says;

"Mate, how big is that bicycle?"
"Do you need to be on the road?"
"Well you're farking lucky I didn't hit you then."
"Are you a farking tank? No! Are you a farking car? No! You're a farking little bicycle but you seem to want to be in the middle of the road, so it's your problem if you get knocked off."
Cyclist "Is that what it says in the highway code?"
Motorist "No, it says knock you daffodils over!"
"Why don't you get a car?"
"You better pull out behind me or I'll knock you off."

Now to me that suggests that the motorist believes that the cyclist should not be in his way and that he has a greater right than the cyclist to be on the road, would you maybe have a look at the video and make a note of where the cyclist gives you the impression that he thinks he has the greater right to be on the road?
Oh, while we're at it, could you maybe list down where the cyclist was swearing at the motorist, threatening the motorist with violence and just generally screaming and shouting at the motorist, then we can have a chat about how they are both as bad as each other.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Oh, while we're at it, could you maybe list down where the cyclist was swearing at the motorist, threatening the motorist with violence and just generally screaming and shouting at the motorist, then we can have a chat about how they are both as bad as each other.



As I have said before, the cyclist could easily have given way to the driver, and the entire situation would have been avoided. I'm not saying that's because the driver is a more important road user. I'm just saying it would have been a courteous thing to do.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> As I have said before, the cyclist could easily have given way to the driver, and the entire situation would have been avoided. I'm not saying that's because the driver is a more important road user. I'm just saying it would have been a courteous thing to do.


Just so I know for future reference, do you have any intention of answering my questions?


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## Profpointy (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Just so I know for future reference, do you have any intention of answering my questions?



a rhetorical question is not really a question to be answered....is it?


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Just so I know for future reference, do you have any intention of answering my questions?



I have answered your question. You just don't seem to like the answer. You now also seem to think you have the right to bully me. What do you think gives you that right?


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## User16625 (3 Aug 2015)

glenn forger said:


> View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFRdEUN240




That is literally one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time! Laughed my bollox off!


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> I have answered your question. You just don't seem to like the answer. You now also seem to think you have the right to bully me. What do you think gives you that right?


I've asked you to show me how the cyclist demonstrates that he believes he has more entitlement to the road than the motorist, I believe I have shown that the motorist is the one with the over inflated sense of importance.
I've asked you to show me how the cyclist was as bad as the motorist in his behaviour, I believe that I have shown that the motorist was far far more agressive and threatening than the cyclist.
I've asked you which one of them you believe is showing the "them and us" attitude. 
If you have answered, actually answered, any of those questions then please point me to the posts where you have done so.
If you honesty think that this is bullying then I really hope you don't meet the chap in the Peugeot.


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## Tin Pot (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Just so I know for future reference, do you have any intention of answering my questions?



It's unlikely.

Lemond has been defending the driver in all similar threads since he/she joined last year.

The general point being made is valid, you can have bad drivers as much as you can have bad cyclists. We're all human, no us vs. them, etc.

But on specific points, such as this instance where it is clear that the drivers bad behaviour far outweighs the cyclists Lemond will never give way - presumably because he feels it undermines the general point he/she wants to make.

As do so many others here on CC and in the real world too, sadly.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> I've asked you to show me how the cyclist demonstrates that he believes he has more entitlement to the road than the motorist, I believe I have shown that the motorist is the one with the over inflated sense of importance.* But I don't hold that viewpoint re the cyclist. *
> 
> I've asked you to show me how the cyclist was as bad as the motorist in his behaviour, I believe that I have shown that the motorist was far far more agressive and threatening than the cyclist. *Show some common courtesy, allow the car to pass, situation avoided. It could have been that simple. I have never said that he should do this. I have said that he could have chosen to do this. Big difference.
> *
> ...


----------



## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> As I have said before, the cyclist could easily have given way to the driver, and the entire situation would have been avoided. I'm not saying that's because the driver is a more important road user. I'm just saying it would have been a courteous thing to do.



Well, he could have ridden closer to the parked cars to facilitate the overtake, but if he had been hit by a door and run over by the Peugeot, what would you have said then? 

Surely, the convenience of other road users should not trump your safety?


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

He could have taken the car then none of this would have happened.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> It's unlikely.
> 
> Lemond has been defending the driver in all similar threads since he/she joined last year.
> 
> ...



No. I just happen to believe that as cyclists we share the road. We have no greater rights to it than anybody else. And let me be absolutely clear for you: I believe the driver behaved disgracefully. But that doesn't mean that the entire situation couldn't have been avoided had the cyclist not demonstrated a little bit of common courtesy. I have no agenda or axe to grind, I just comment as I find.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> No. I just happen to believe that as cyclists we share the road. We have no greater rights to it than anybody else. And let me be absolutely clear for you: I believe the driver behaved disgracefully. But that doesn't mean that the entire situation couldn't have been avoided had the cyclist not demonstrated a little bit of common courtesy. I have no agenda or axe to grind, I just comment as I find.



Watching the video again, there is only one place where the cyclist could have moved over and that was at 6 seconds in, between two parked cars. That's assuming he even knew the driver was behind him, as he'd turned right into the road and the motorist was coming straight over the junction. By 11 seconds, the car had gone past.

Do you think cyclists should weave in and out of parked cars?


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Well, he could have ridden closer to the parked cars to facilitate the overtake, but if he had been hit by a door and run over by the Peugeot, what would you have said then?
> 
> Surely, the convenience of other road users should not trump your safety?



In the video you can see a couple of large spaces between the parked cars which the cyclist could have used.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> In the video you can see a couple of large spaces between the parked cars which the cyclist could have used.



One space, a car's length, at six seconds. Watch it again.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> No. I just happen to believe that as cyclists we share the road. We have no greater rights to it than anybody else. And let me be absolutely clear for you: I believe the driver behaved disgracefully. But that doesn't mean that the entire situation couldn't have been avoided had the cyclist not demonstrated a little bit of common courtesy. I have no agenda or axe to grind, I just comment as I find.


Why is it that the cyclist needs to display "common courtesy" and not the driver and when does it stop becoming "common courtesy" and start to be getting out of the way because might is right?


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> In the video you can see a couple of large spaces between the parked cars which the cyclist could have used.


This can cause issues of it's own although I am not above pulling in between parked cars if the situation is appropriate, I do not believe it was in this instance. What can happen is that the motorist does not know what you are doing, so they don't overtake you anyway because they think you may be about to pull back out, so you end up with a stand off, they're holding back because they don't know what you're doing and you're holding back because you don't know what they're doing until someone has to come to a dead stop and wave the other on, you both end up more delayed than if you'd both just got on with it.


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Why is it that the cyclist needs to display "common courtesy" and not the driver and when does it stop becoming "common courtesy" and start to be getting out of the way because might is right?



I agree with you. The cyclist could have given way. The driver could have waited. Neither did. 

I think where we start to part ways is when you talk about "might is right". I just don't buy into this "them and us" argument.


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

It's odd that the same people who seem to think the cyclist should not have confronted the motorist because of the risk to his safety are quite happy to suggest he should ride in the door zone and/or weave in and out of the parked cars


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## Markymark (3 Aug 2015)

Cyclist was in front. No need to give way to what is behind you.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> I agree with you. The cyclist could have given way. The driver could have waited. Neither did.
> 
> I think where we start to part ways is when you talk about "might is right". I just don't buy into this "them and us" argument.


This is where you are losing me, to me the driver is absolute certain of his greater right to be on the section of road which the cyclist was occupying, he believes whole heartedly that might is right and he is creating the them and us. Had the cyclist pulled over, whilst I do not know this of course, I suspect that the motorist would have believed that he pulled over because he was on a bicycle and should get out of the way of cars, not because he was being polite and sharing the road.


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## MontyVeda (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> As I have said before, the cyclist could easily have given way to the driver, and the entire situation would have been avoided. I'm not saying that's because the driver is a more important road user. I'm just saying it would have been a courteous thing to do.





Lemond said:


> In the video you can see a couple of large spaces between the parked cars which the cyclist could have used.



i think it's described pretty clearly here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-ragers-should-wear-helmets.184835/post-3833984


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## Andrew_P (3 Aug 2015)

It would be interesting how many of those who confronted a driver believe it turned out to be a positive experience for all involved? How many of you think the driver will change their action in future? Or how many now have an even worse view on cyclists. How many has it got to physical aggression

My worst confrontation having been nailed in to the kerb by a van overtaking and apexing the bend going in to a roundabout, the driver gave the normal didn't see you, then started f'ing and blinding as we were going along, refused to pull over and back up his threats the traffic came to a stop he wound his window up and locked door when I got off my bike. I gave up and went on my way 300 yard up the road he drove in to my bike from behind backed off did it again and sped off hurling abuse. 45 cycling miles later my rear tyre bead rips mid corner and I am in hospital with dislocated and fractured shoulder. Benefit of hindsight I should have changed or checked the tyre more closely and never ever get in front of a confrontation again. I still have done it but I can assure everyone there are loons out there..


----------



## Origamist (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> In the video you can see a couple of large spaces between the parked cars which the cyclist could have used.



I can only see one possible but uninviting gap (after the Porsche) that could have been used and, at the speed the cyclist was going, you'd have to brake hard to squeeze into that space. You'd also have to have planned the move considerably earlier, when the car was a way back and had not been delayed by even a second! If you adopt that stop/start, snake-like approach in residential situations you're likely to have more problems, not less, as surely you'd have to employ it all the time?


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> I can only see one possible but uninviting gap (after the Porsche) that could have been used and at the speed the cyclist was going you'd have to brake hard to squeeze into that space. You'd also have to have planned the move considerably earlier, when the car was a way back and had not been delayed by even a second! If you adopt that stop/start, snake-like approach in residential situations you're likely to have more problems, not less as surely you'd have to employ it all the time?


Damn you and your facts


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## Lemond (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> This is where you are losing me, to me the driver is absolute certain of his greater right to be on the section of road which the cyclist was occupying, he believes whole heartedly that might is right and he is creating the them and us. Had the cyclist pulled over, whilst I do not know this of course, I suspect that the motorist would have believed that he pulled over because he was on a bicycle and should get out of the way of cars, not because he was being polite and sharing the road.



And this is where you lose me. Despite the driver's outburst later in the video, you can't possible state with any certainty what his beliefs and opinions were at the moment of the pass. Maybe he just thought "I can get through there". Maybe greater right or sense of entitlement had nothing to do with it.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> It would be interesting how many of those who confronted a driver believe it turned out to be a positive experience for all involved? How many of you think the driver will change their action in future? Or how many now have an even worse view on cyclists. How many has it got to physical aggression
> 
> My worst confrontation having been nailed in to the kerb by a van overtaking and apexing the bend going in to a roundabout, the driver gave the normal didn't see you, then started f'ing and blinding as we were going along, refused to pull over and back up his threats the traffic came to a stop he wound his window up and locked door when I got off my bike. I gave up and went on my way 300 yard up the road he drove in to my bike from behind backed off did it again and sped off hurling abuse. 45 cycling miles later my rear tyre bead rips mid corner and I am in hospital with dislocated and fractured shoulder. Benefit of hindsight I should have changed or checked the tyre more closely and never ever get in front of a confrontation again. I still have done it but I can assure everyone there are loons out there..


A horrible and frightening experience no doubt, but there are many situations where you could say with confidence that not keeping your trap shut could result in you getting a good hiding, the vast majority don't involve cycling. That doesn't mean that you should never call somebody out on their bullying or agressive behaviour though.
As for this video, I would be very surprised if the motorist involved was not feeling extraordinarily ashamed and embarrassed by his behaviour and the fact that he is now an internet star, I suspect he may well be very careful around cyclists now, although I could be wrong.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> And this is where you lose me. Despite the driver's outburst later in the video, you can't possible state with any certainty what his beliefs and opinions were at the moment of the pass. Maybe he just thought "I can get through there". Maybe greater right or sense of entitlement had nothing to do with it.


I'll bet you anything you like that he wouldn't have passed that closely to anything which would have caused him greater damage than he could have caused it. It is also precisely due to the drivers outburst that I am drawing my conclusions, how it is possible to read the transcript of what the driver said and not come to the conclusion that he believes the cyclist was in his way is absolutely beyond me.


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

Lemond said:


> And this is where you lose me. Despite the driver's outburst later in the video, you can't possible state with any certainty what his beliefs and opinions were at the moment of the pass. Maybe he just thought "I can get through there". Maybe greater right or sense of entitlement had nothing to do with it.


Maybe he thought he was a fish, I agree. However, it is not at all implausible that someone who's first reaction to being challenged by a cyclist is 'the highway code says run you daffodils over' has thoughts of running cyclists over not far from the top of his mind. 

Or whatever passes for his mind


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## Andrew_P (3 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> A horrible and frightening experience no doubt, but there are many situations where you could say with confidence that not keeping your trap shut could result in you getting a good hiding, the vast majority don't involve cycling. That doesn't mean that you should never call somebody out on their bullying or agressive behaviour though.
> As for this video, I would be very surprised if the motorist involved was not feeling extraordinarily ashamed and embarrassed by his behaviour and the fact that he is now an internet star, I suspect he may well be very careful around cyclists now, although I could be wrong.


I am more concerned that a lot posts on this thread are actively encouraging it, in fact indirectly accusing people who suggest it is unwise as wimps and bully fodder. My advice if you are not prepared for the worst case sceniaro and are not able to defend yourself then don't do it. Even in this video the cyclist effectively runs away, it ended ok this time but could have escalated beyond the funny.


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

I rode to work last week. It ended OK but could have escalated. 

Seriously, everyone has different risk appetites. Nothing wrong with backing off if that's how you'd rather play it , but it doesn't follow that everyone else has to do it the same way, nor that they'll welcome your "advice" that they should have done.


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## benborp (3 Aug 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> It would be interesting how many of those who confronted a driver believe it turned out to be a positive experience for all involved? How many of you think the driver will change their action in future? Or how many now have an even worse view on cyclists. How many has it got to physical aggression



Unfortunately I had no microphone at the time this was recorded but the driver was contrite and apologised. He can be clearly seen repeating "I'm sorry, I'm sorry.":


Whereas this is how you resolve conflict on the road:
*LOUD SWEARINESS/QUIET HEARTFELT SWEARINESS/HAPPY ENDING*


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## glenn forger (3 Aug 2015)

That motorcyclist rocks, even from that screen shot you can tell he's genuinely shocked. Or in shock.


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## glenn forger (3 Aug 2015)

I reckon that because of this footage in the OP an awful lot more drivers now know what the door zone is. Loads don't, it's amazing for a cyclist to realise drivers don't know what it is. In comments beneath this story the support for the rider is massively encouraging. Of course there are trolls and petrol head who search for cycling stories to post road tax guff and stuff about how just the other day their gran was killed twice by a cyclist who had an ISIS flag and no helmet, but broadly the reaction has been brilliant to see.


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## Andrew_P (3 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> .


And there you go again suggesting that it is low risk, and my advice is much more sensible than encouraging people to chase down motorists to educate them because all the "proper" cyclists on a forum told me too.


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## Arjimlad (3 Aug 2015)

glenn forger said:


> I reckon that because of this footage in the OP an awful lot more drivers now know what the door zone is. Loads don't, it's amazing for a cyclist to realise drivers don't know what it is. In comments beneath this story the support for the rider is massively encouraging. Of course there are trolls and petrol head who search for cycling stories to post road tax guff and stuff about how just the other day their gran was killed twice by a cyclist who had an ISIS flag and no helmet, but broadly the reaction has been brilliant to see.



It's crazy, when I can still hear my driving instructor saying to leave a door's width and a little bit when passing parked cars 25 years later. Why some drivers think cyclists should not adopt the same rule is beyond me.


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## glenn forger (3 Aug 2015)

Crowd sourced PIF. It could be a brilliant educator, spell it out, "There's a reason why people on bikes ride this way". To make it realistic make one of the parked cars have stupid pimped blacked-out windows so you can't see shoot beyond that car.


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> And there you go again suggesting that it is low risk, and my advice is much more sensible than encouraging people to chase down motorists to educate them because all the "proper" cyclists on a forum told me too.


I don't think you're reading what I wrote, but I suppose given that I don't even _ understand _ what you wrote I'm in no position to complain. You're saying your advice is sensible or you're saying I'm saying that? And who's telling you to chase down motorists?


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## glenn forger (3 Aug 2015)

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-br...cebook&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social



> The cyclist comes up behind him and says, "too close mate, waaaay too farking close", and Peugeot Dad is already on full beam, bellowing-until-he-spits anger. He went to 100 without even getting near 0. He started at 0 the day he was born, and has been idling at 100 ever since. "OI," he says. "HOW farkING BIG IS THAT BICYCLE?" No back and forth, no "Oh, was I?", just full on radge. I love that. Imagine driving around, constantly, a bubbling pot of fury. In a _Peugeot_. And notice again that the person in the passenger seat says nothing. They are _used to this_. This is an _ordinary amount of rage for him to have_. He is the _angriest man alive_.


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## Mugshot (3 Aug 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> I am more concerned that a lot posts on this thread are actively encouraging it, in fact indirectly accusing people who suggest it is unwise as wimps and bully fodder. My advice if you are not prepared for the worst case sceniaro and are not able to defend yourself then don't do it. Even in this video the cyclist effectively runs away, it ended ok this time but could have escalated beyond the funny.


I'm sorry I don't see this at all. I see some posters suggesting that one should never approach a motorist that has performed what they consider a dangerous manoeuvre in case they get a smack in the chops or worse, some are even suggesting that this should be expected, effectively that it is the norm. Other posters are challenging this. I don't think that anybody has suggested that everybody should do so or that they are a wimp if they don't.


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## Jon George (3 Aug 2015)

I've just deleted what I was going to post - stirring this particular wasp's nest was never going to work, however funny I thought it was.
I'm moving on ...


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## 400bhp (3 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> The driver in the video was not delayed by the cyclist.



Was thinking about this thread as I cycled home, ready with clenched buttocks and angry ranty face paint on, riding down the middle of the A56, so no bleeders could get past me

And then I had a thought - the cyclist DID NOT hold up the driver because HE CAUGHT UP with the driver later on. You generally don't make progress in towns in a car any quicker than on a bicycle.

End of this cyclist should get out of the farking way nonsense.


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## cd365 (3 Aug 2015)

I see the driver has been arrested and cautioned


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Aug 2015)

User said:


> And given a tetanus jab?



And a fitness plan.


GC


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## Profpointy (3 Aug 2015)

glenn forger said:


> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-br...cebook&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social



well worth reading - very entertaining


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## User482 (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Not really, It's nice to be courteous and give way to faster traffic when it is safe to do so. It's irritating being stuck behind slow moving tractors that don't move over when safe too.
> 
> As a cyclist, if I get to a space that I can pull in to, to let traffic past, before a safe passing point I will do.



I agree. It's very irritating that not a single motorist got out of my way on my commute this morning.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

User482 said:


> I agree. It's very irritating that not a single motorist got out of my way on my commute this morning.



I assume that most left a gap in the traffic you could fit through?


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## User482 (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I assume that most left a gap in the traffic you could fit through?



Only if I choose to ride in the door zone. All they had to do was pull over and I could've easily got past safely.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

User482 said:


> Only if I choose to ride in the door zone. All they had to do was pull over and I could've easily got past safely.



I'd rather filter through door zone, than around cars moving in and out of lane.

The cyclist that blocked a whole road this morning was particularly irritating. Pulled out of a junction on a busy country road at rush hour. Realised his partner didn't get out in the traffic in time, so pulled over on the left. Meaning nobody could get past, took 10 minutes before he actually cycled a further 30m to the next junction where he could wait. I imagine he probably complained on a forum at the nasty cars beeping their horns at him.


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## User482 (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I'd rather filter through door zone, than around cars moving in and out of lane.


All I'm asking is that motorists extend me the courtesy of pulling over, seeing as I am faster than them. Seems reasonable, no?



> The cyclist that blocked a whole road this morning was particularly irritating. Pulled out of a junction on a busy country road at rush hour. Realised his partner didn't get out in the traffic in time, so pulled over on the left. Meaning nobody could get past, took 10 minutes before he actually cycled a further 30m to the next junction where he could wait. I imagine he probably complained on a forum at the nasty cars beeping their horns at him.



Nobody could get past a cyclist who pulled over? I thought that was what you wanted? When you've got your story straight, come back to me.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

User482 said:


> All I'm asking is that motorists extend me the courtesy of pulling over, seeing as I am faster than them. Seems reasonable, no?


Fine, when I am driving and see a cyclist coming through traffic quicker than me. I will do him a favour and pull over to the curb so he can get past?



> Nobody could get past a cyclist who pulled over? I thought that was what you wanted? When you've got your story straight, come back to me.


A busy country road, constant stream of traffic in the opposite direction.

Usually you would wait behind the cyclist till the road widens later on and it's safe to pass.


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## User482 (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Fine, when I am driving and see a cyclist coming through traffic quicker than me. I will do him a favour and pull over to the curb so he can get past?


Excellent idea. Let's hope it catches on.




> A busy country road, constant stream of traffic in the opposite direction.
> 
> Usually you would wait behind the cyclist till the road widens later on and it's safe to pass.


And the cyclist had pulled over. You appear to be complaining about a non-existent problem.


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## benb (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I'd rather filter through door zone, than around cars moving in and out of lane.
> 
> The cyclist that blocked a whole road this morning was particularly irritating. Pulled out of a junction on a busy country road at rush hour. Realised his partner didn't get out in the traffic in time, so pulled over on the left. Meaning nobody could get past, took 10 minutes before he actually cycled a further 30m to the next junction where he could wait. I imagine he probably complained on a forum at the nasty cars beeping their horns at him.



10 minutes? Rubbish.


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## Citius (4 Aug 2015)

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/re...eading-cyclist-video-driver-cautioned-9785513


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## winjim (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Fine, when I am driving and see a cyclist coming through traffic quicker than me. I will do him a favour and pull over to the curb so he can get past?
> 
> 
> A busy country road, *constant stream of traffic in the opposite direction*.
> ...


There's your problem 

FWIW, my commute takes me through parked up residential streets, then down a dual carriageway (there is a cyclepath but I choose to filter between lanes 1&2, it's safer and quicker) and then through the university. Loads of drivers move aside for me and I for them, depending on circumstances. It's a beautiful thing.

Students on the other hand


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> There's your problem



I would love to cycle to work, but the 35 mile commute doesn't really suit the bicycle


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## Markymark (4 Aug 2015)

benb said:


> 10 minutes? Rubbish.


Hey, it's his made up story so it can be as long as he likes.


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## winjim (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I would love to cycle to work, but the 35 mile commute doesn't really suit the bicycle


Did you get my meaning? The bit in bold, yeah?


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## Origamist (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I would love to cycle to work, but the 35 mile commute doesn't really suit the bicycle



Why?


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## Markymark (4 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Why?


Because coming to a stop every few meters to let a car passed would mean the journey would take forever.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Did you get my meaning? The bit in bold, yeah?


Yes. The fact the stream of traffic prevented passing, but it was still caused by a blockage in the road, that was unnecessary.

I was second guessing a hidden message that you insinuated more cyclists = less traffic.

It's not about "law" or "rights" but about consideration. It needs to happen everywhere. There is nothing saying that a cyclist can't take a full lane, but there's nothing saying a car legally has to give a lane to overtake too.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Why?



Because that is using the M62, where iirc bicycles aren't allowed, cycling would add an extra 5 miles, taking it to 40 each way, or 80 round trip.

How many, even very enthusiastic cyclists here do 400 miles per week? or nearly 5 hours per day 5 days per week? On top of a 45 hour working week?

I would love to move closer, but it would mean getting rid of all motorised transport, my dog, garden, shed, tools, and move into a 2bed flat for £200 more than my current mortgage.


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## winjim (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I was second guessing a hidden message that you insinuated more cyclists = less traffic.


Ha, yes that's true, but not what I was thinking. Just that it was cyclist plus oncoming traffic causing the obstruction, rather than cyclist alone.


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## Origamist (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> Because that is using the M62, where iirc bicycles aren't allowed, cycling would add an extra 5 miles, taking it to 40 each way, or 80 round trip.
> 
> How many, even very enthusiastic cyclists here do 400 miles per week? or nearly 5 hours per day 5 days per week? On top of a 45 hour working week?
> 
> I would love to move closer, but it would mean getting rid of all motorised transport, my dog, garden, shed, tools, and move into a 2bed flat for £200 more than my current mortgage.



Would you have to cycle both legs of the journey? Could you do one or two days a week? Could you go for a multi-modal option? 

I'm not having a go, it's just that from your responses on this thread, you don't seem to have much understanding or empathy with cycling.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Ha, yes that's true, but not what I was thinking. Just that it was cyclist plus oncoming traffic causing the obstruction, rather than cyclist alone.



The example I posed wasn't a common occurance, far from. In fact, first time in 12 years of driving that I have been stopped because of a bicycle.

My main point was that it's not an us and them thing, that consideration is needed everywhere. Cyclist do need more space by a lot of car drivers. I'm not even going to say most, as I don't often get a close pass, but then I don't cycle in rush hour, or for commuting. Drivers need more education about why cyclists take a full lane.

I take a full lane at a pinch point, to prevent silly overtakes, then move to secondary after. But if I know there's traffic struggling to get past, and I can inconvenience myself by 20 seconds to let them get past I am not bothered. After all, they have been considerate enough to wait for me, so why not return the consideration when it is safe and convenient for me to do so?


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## Arjimlad (4 Aug 2015)

Please may we have more funny "memes" of the driver catapulting himself forwards into improbable and amusing scenarios. I know how good you all are at them.

TIA


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Would you have to cycle both legs of the journey? Could you do one or two days a week? Could you go for a multi-modal option?
> 
> I'm not having a go, it's just that from your responses on this thread, you don't seem to have much understanding or empathy with cycling.



I would have to do both legs, as I would also prefer to use public transport than drive in rush hour manchester traffic, the train would even be cheaper! But even the Manchester infrastructure doesn't supply public transport at the times when I regularly finish working.

I do have empathy with cycling, admittedly, I don't commute, and cycle purely for pleasure. I dislike the strong anti-car attitude, and the militant "cyclist does no wrong". I was merely suggesting that there are other ways to go about it. I had a car inches from my bumper this morning, I didn't pull next to him at the lights and tell him how stupid he was. I simply moved over, let him go, no more tailgating, no confrontation. Admittedly, I can and have lost my temper before and confronted drivers. But, I know immediately, that 90% of the time it's not the right choice.

I take primary when I need to dominate the lane for my safety, such as pinchpoints, narrow 1 way roads, blind country road corners, roundabouts, etc.

If a line of traffic have patiently waited for a short while behind me, for a safe passing point, but cannot pass due to oncoming traffic. Why not pull over when safe and convenient to return the consideration that they have shown me?

I just don't see everything as black and white, there's a middle ground in all of this. Not cyclists demanding they have a right to be there, and using those rights because they can. And not cars forcing their way through because they're bigger and faster. There needs to be equal consideration.

If you haven't seen a modern theory test, check this link out

http://www.safedrivingforlife.info/take-official-free-practice-driving-theory-test/

Have a go, and it will show the issues. The tests ask more about first aid, and questions about trams, than anything about cycling. In fact, when I was helping my partner recently pass a test, I don't recall ever seeing a question about cyclists.

It's not entirely anti-cycling, but lack of driver education, that leads to a lot of these issues.

Maybe I'm naive, but I like to have enough faith in humanity, that the majority of people don't want to harm or endanger me when cycling. But, simply don't realise what they are doing is dangerous.


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## PhilDawson8270 (4 Aug 2015)

Arjimlad said:


> Please may we have more funny "memes" of the driver catapulting himself forwards into improbable and amusing scenarios. I know how good you all are at them.
> 
> TIA


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## Origamist (4 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> I would have to do both legs, as I would also prefer to use public transport than drive in rush hour manchester traffic, the train would even be cheaper! But even the Manchester infrastructure doesn't supply public transport at the times when I regularly finish working.
> 
> I do have empathy with cycling, admittedly, I don't commute, and cycle purely for pleasure. I dislike the strong anti-car attitude, and the militant "cyclist does no wrong". I was merely suggesting that there are other ways to go about it. I had a car inches from my bumper this morning, I didn't pull next to him at the lights and tell him how stupid he was. I simply moved over, let him go, no more tailgating, no confrontation. Admittedly, I can and have lost my temper before and confronted drivers. But, I know immediately, that 90% of the time it's not the right choice.
> 
> ...




Some of that is reasonable and I don’t think you would have too much disagreement from many (particularly the lunacy of driving in rush-hour Manc). However, with reference to the above concerning the video, the cyclist didn’t delay the motorist, he didn’t have a reasonable opportunity to pull in, and he wasn’t even riding in “primary” (a term I have come to dislike more than even the most anti-cycling motorist, I suspect).

Where you go acutely astray is when you talk about “equal consideration” – even the example you provide is telling. It is the driver behaviour that is dangerous and potentially life threatening – not the cyclist asserting their right to (presumably) ride in the centre of the lane, or as in the OP, on the margins of the door zone. The difference in lethality is massive and the “equal consideration” that you talk of is not equitable in a road danger reduction context as the greatest burden of responsibility lies with those that do the most harm. That does not mean that cyclists should not be amenable to the needs of other road users, but surely you see a difference between the levels of risk posed by different road users? It's not an even playing field.

I have seen the theory test and for many years it has been mooted that there should be a cycling component embedded in the test. We're still waiting...

Finally, I don’t think you’re naïve – who would cycle, walk, drive motorcycle, if the majority of people did want to harm others?


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## Dan B (4 Aug 2015)

https://twitter.com/lstwhl/status/628338649818603521

Here's a good reason not to be cycling next to parked cars


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## Tin Pot (4 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/re...eading-cyclist-video-driver-cautioned-9785513



I'm not overly surprised - but no detail of the caution has been given .

Other posters on this thread seem to have missed your link though.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (4 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> https://twitter.com/lstwhl/status/628338649818603521
> 
> Here's a good reason not to be cycling next to parked cars



What a peanut. He held that driver up for a good ten minutes. He needs to keep to the left more when he's losing control of his bike. A bit of consideration for other road users please!


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## vickster (4 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I'm not overly surprised - but no detail of the caution has been given .
> 
> Other posters on this thread seem to have missed your link though.


It says a public order offence, so presumably because he was a shouty p*llock


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## Origamist (4 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I'm not overly surprised - but no detail of the caution has been given .
> 
> Other posters on this thread seem to have missed your link though.



To be fair, Dan B stated the same thing on p.11 of this thread!


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## Dmcd33 (4 Aug 2015)

Does taking the lane for a few seconds mean you can verbally abuse and assault someone on a bike?
If I went up to this bloke in a pub and randomly called him a prick, he would have had a calmer response.

Why does a metal box with an engine turn people into angry impulsive individuals, or give them the excuse to take out their life long frustrations?

The fact that 1000+ people were hit by a car that drove off in London whislt riding a bike (hit and run) and 1000+ pedestrians also victims of hit and run, suggests that a lot of people should not be driving?? but people accept it because it's a majority persuit to drive a car.

One guy rides on a pavement and knocks over a little girl - national news, 2000+ hit and runs - Lumped together as one story?

(Sorry lots of themes, but I needed to get it off my chest)


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## Citius (4 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I'm not overly surprised - but no detail of the caution has been given .
> 
> Other posters on this thread seem to have missed your link though.



Strangely, there's been no reporting of this in the Henley Standard...


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## Mugshot (4 Aug 2015)

Dmcd33 said:


> Why does a metal box with an engine turn people into angry impulsive individuals


It's been that way for an awfully long time, astonishing really that this video is 65 years old.


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## blazed (4 Aug 2015)




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## vickster (4 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Strangely, there's been no reporting of this in the Henley Standard...


He doesn't look like he lives in Henley tbh, his car would look rather out of place too


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## Citius (4 Aug 2015)

vickster said:


> He doesn't look like he lives in Henley tbh, his car would look rather out of place too



Henley has all sorts...


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## Tin Pot (4 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> It's been that way for an awfully long time, astonishing really that this video is 65 years old.




It was described to me as a form of neurotic behaviour about 25 years ago, the slight disconnect from reality it seems we all undergo.

Apparently someone famous said, about a hundred years ago, that speed was the only artificial feeling humans have created - in that the sensation of speeding is not something we could naturally experience.

Perhaps the resulting mood change is related to those points.


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## vickster (4 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Henley has all sorts...


So it seems with an average house price of £538k


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## Citius (4 Aug 2015)

vickster said:


> So it seems with an average house price of £538k



Lots of council/social housing there too, which probably doesn't figure in that average. I'm making a wild assumption here, but I doubt if that guy lives in prime river-front property...


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## vickster (4 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Lots of council/social housing there too, which probably doesn't figure in that average...


I've only seen the posh bits. The ex council properties will though, they'll be pegging back the large number of million quid plus places!


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## Dan B (4 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Apparently someone famous said, about a hundred years ago, that speed was the only artificial feeling humans have created - in that the sensation of speeding is not something we could naturally experience.


Except by jumping off something really tall


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## Tin Pot (4 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> Except by jumping off something really tall


Unlikely to tell anyone about it afterwards though, eh?


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## mickle (4 Aug 2015)

I wonder if he has any idea how many people across the globe have seen him face plant the gutter. I do hope so.


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## Dan B (4 Aug 2015)

mickle said:


> I wonder if he has any idea how many people across the globe have seen him face plant the gutter. I do hope so.


Presumably he's seen the video, someone must have made the privacy complaint


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## 400bhp (4 Aug 2015)

Can you imagine being this person's wife or son/daughter

Can you legally separate from your parents?


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## benb (5 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Apparently someone famous said, about a hundred years ago, that speed was the only artificial feeling humans have created



What about LSD?


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## Tin Pot (5 Aug 2015)

benb said:


> What about LSD?



LSD is naturally occurring, not man made like cars.


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## w00hoo_kent (5 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> Unlikely to tell anyone about it afterwards though, eh?


Depends how deep the water is, I've seen Red Bull Cliff Divers, although I guess the guy in 1915 hadn't.


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## Dan B (5 Aug 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> LSD is naturally occurring, not man made like cars.


I don't believe that LSD is _that_ much easier to come by in nature than amphetamines


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## PhilDawson8270 (5 Aug 2015)

Dan B said:


> I don't believe that LSD is _that_ much easier to come by in nature than amphetamines


IIRC, it comes from a fungus. Which kills you in fungus form.


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## Tin Pot (5 Aug 2015)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> IIRC, it comes from a fungus. Which kills you in fungus form.



Either by poisoning, burning or ducking.

Or so I've heard.


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## Markymark (5 Aug 2015)

Lsd is not natural. It has to be refined from naturally growing fungus. In its natural form it does not have the same effect.


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## benb (5 Aug 2015)

Nice derail I sparked there!


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## Origamist (5 Aug 2015)

benb said:


> Nice derail I sparked there!



Perhaps, Mr "I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky" was just having a bad trip? It would explain his irrational, swivel-eyed response to a minor stimulus.


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## benborp (5 Aug 2015)

Definitely looked like a bad trip.


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## roadrash (5 Aug 2015)

benborp said:


> Definitely looked like a bad trip.



oh i dunno ....it looked good to me


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## PhilDawson8270 (5 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Perhaps, Mr "I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky" was just having a bad trip? It would explain his irrational, swivel-eyed response to a minor stimulus.



Couldn't have been that good of a trip, he wasn't high for very long.

Would be going back to a dealer if the high was that poor, and the crash that hard from it.


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## benb (5 Aug 2015)

There certainly was a bad comedown.


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