# In an ice cold bath



## gb155 (3 Jul 2011)

Typing on here to take my mind off it 

I've done 90 miles in the last 2 days , today's were sort of accidental but it puts me on almost 200 for the week, fully intend to taper for Sunday , would drinking milk aid recovery ?


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## cyberknight (3 Jul 2011)

According to C+ i believe they said milk was a perfect post ride recovery drink.

They do also say that taking ibruprofen helps with muscle soreness as it is an anti inflammatory, mind you i have 2 boxes of naproxen left from when i had sciatica and that stuff would dose an elephant.

I am on a no bike weekend as i have been suffering all week with tired legs and back ache as i put a new saddle and i am still micro adjusting it so only 134 miles this week .


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## gb155 (3 Jul 2011)

cyberknight said:


> According to C+ i believe they said milk was a perfect post ride recovery drink.
> 
> They do also say that taking ibruprofen helps with muscle soreness as it is an anti inflammatory, mind you i have 2 boxes of naproxen left from when i had sciatica and that stuff would dose an elephant.
> 
> I am on a no bike weekend as i have been suffering all week with tired legs and back ache as i put a new saddle and i am still micro adjusting it so only 134 miles this week .



Excellent news 

Thanks

Not too shabby milage there tho for someone suffering tbh


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## cyberknight (3 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Excellent news
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Not too shabby milage there tho for someone suffering tbh



Saving me legs for when the Boardman arrives on wednesday/thursday ready for next weekend  , the new saddle is comfy and i think i have it sorted now .
As it has longer rails i think i had it set to far back and the saddle a bit low which caused similar problems last time i "fiddled " with set up so fingers crossed i have it sorted.
Mind you it does not help that i am bending down at work picking up hefty towing pins about 100 times a day atm ...


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## Dayvo (3 Jul 2011)

Chocolate milk is an excellent recovery drink: with or without a banana in the food blender.

But,* DON'T* overdo it (the mileage, not the chocolate milk)!


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## numbnuts (3 Jul 2011)

when the weathers hot I like banana milk shake after a long ride


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## HLaB (3 Jul 2011)

Dayvo said:


> Chocolate milk is an excellent recovery drink: with or without a banana in the food blender.
> 
> But,* DON'T* overdo it (the mileage, not the chocolate milk)!



If you over do the chocolate milk, does it turn your skin or pee a funny colour


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## pepecat (3 Jul 2011)

+1 for the neurofen (or ibuprofen generally) - works a treat.
Also good is biofreeze - like deep heat but cold. I find it far better than deep heat. And getting mrs pepecat to give me a massage is always a bonus too!


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jul 2011)

Milk/Milkshake is just perfect after a ride, pint of Nesquick here. If you can add a banana, all the better!
200 for the wek sound pretty fair, I'd wish I'd done 1 mile


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## potsy (3 Jul 2011)

A pint of strawberry or chocolate Nesquick is my preferred post ride drink luvverly


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## gb155 (3 Jul 2011)

Well

From now on, i'll start having a pint of milk each evening again (Tho before I could down 4 pints an evening, no bother) but I guess 1 pint is about right ?


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## Flying Dodo (3 Jul 2011)

Re the cold baths, although I was initially a sceptic, having tried them for the second half of my recent Durness to Dover ride, they really do help muscle recovery. Painful to get into initially (especially around more "delicate" areas), but once your lower half is fully immersed, you don't feel the cold at all. 

20 minutes and a good book to read and then both body and mind are revitalised.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Well
> 
> From now on, i'll start having a pint of milk each evening again (Tho before I could down 4 pints an evening, no bother) but I guess 1 pint is about right ?


A pint would be plenty enough, I'd go for semi-skimmed.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> Re the cold baths, although I was initially a sceptic, having tried them for the second half of my recent Durness to Dover ride, they really do help muscle recovery. Painful to get into initially (especially around more "delicate" areas), but once your lower half is fully immersed, you don't feel the cold at all.
> 
> 20 minutes and a good book to read and then both body and mind are revitalised.



FD, was that just with 'cold' water, i.e just from the cold tap?


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## Flying Dodo (3 Jul 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> FD, was that just with 'cold' water, i.e just from the cold tap?



Yes, just from the cold tap. I suppose proper athletes use 2.5 kg of ice cubes per 50 litres of Evian water, but I reckon what comes out of the tap still has a beneficial effect.


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## Fab Foodie (4 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> Yes, just from the cold tap. I suppose proper athletes use 2.5 kg of ice cubes per 50 litres of Evian water, but I reckon what comes out of the tap still has a beneficial effect.



Brrr, OK, next big/hard ride I'll do, I'll give it a go


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## zacklaws (4 Jul 2011)

Following on from a friend who was a cycling coach, he recommended to me a recovery drink, called "Amino Load" which is also good for an energy drink as well during the ride. Also told me about the amino tablets that Holland and Barratt sell which also do similar.

http://www.allsports-online.co.uk/allsports.cgi?name=Amino Load&cart_id=

I bought some tablets but found that they did nothing and still suffered, but I also bought some of the Holland and Barratt liquid amino and added 15ml to each bidon, whether it was just water or with energy drink, and since then I have had no muscle soreness to the extent I used to get, most days I get none at all after very hard rides, I just end up with a small twinge

As amino's need a lot of fluid, I retried the tablets but instead of taking a couple preride, I ground them down in a pestle and mortar and added one to each bidon and once again, I got the same results as the liquid.

To date I have to try the "Amino load" that I bought, but cos of its price, its for special occasions

The problem with these amino's is that they are quite expensive so only get used when I think that I will need them, Holland and Barratt did a 2 for price of 1 sale a few weeks back so I stocked up.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Jul 2011)

I have a serious Ibuprofen habit. I take a couple before going running, and a couple a couple of hours afterwards.


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## gb155 (4 Jul 2011)

Would having 1 pint of semi skimmed milk after each commute, so am and pm be a little too much over the top


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## gb155 (4 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Would having 1 pint of semi skimmed milk after each commute, so am and pm be a little too much over the top.???


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## potsy (4 Jul 2011)

300ish calories in a pint of semi-skimmed, so that would be 600 just on two drinks.
Didn't you say your full allowance is less than 2000? 

I can't see a problem, especially with the amount of calories you must burn off daily.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Jul 2011)

Milk is a fantastic recovery drink, just drink it slowly  Ibuprofen works a treat as well  


cyberknight said:


> According to C+ i believe they said milk was a perfect post ride recovery drink.
> 
> They do also say that taking ibruprofen helps with muscle soreness as it is an anti inflammatory,


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Jul 2011)

Not at all. Your body would love you for it 


gb155 said:


> Would having 1 pint of semi skimmed milk after each commute, so am and pm be a little too much over the top


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## gb155 (4 Jul 2011)

potsy said:


> 300ish calories in a pint of semi-skimmed, so that would be 600 just on two drinks.
> Didn't you say your full allowance is less than 2000?
> 
> I can't see a problem, especially with the amount of calories you must burn off daily.




Guess it's gonna help me up my intake then


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## Fab Foodie (4 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Guess it's gonna help me up my intake then


... and provide some seriously useful nutrients too.


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## Rob3rt (4 Jul 2011)

potsy said:


> 300ish calories in a pint of semi-skimmed, so that would be 600 just on two drinks.
> *Didn't you say your full allowance is less than 2000? *
> 
> I can't see a problem, especially with the amount of calories you must burn off daily.



There is no way Gaz's daily allowance should be less than 2000 calories


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## VamP (4 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> I have a serious Ibuprofen habit. I take a couple before going running, and a couple a couple of hours afterwards.




Ah, but is this the 200mg or are you hitting the hard stuff?


I am a friend of Ibuprofen as it helped me to get through an overuse injury (rock-climbing related) but I did have a rule about never taking it prior to training. Post training my dosage was off the charts though. Best to do some reading.


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## cyberknight (4 Jul 2011)

zacklaws said:


> The problems with taking things like this along with Nurofen and pain killers etc is they can do more harm than good. Pains and aches is your bodies way of saying something is wrong with your body, neutralise the painful effects with drugs and then you can cause more damage, by having overridden the pain, you then damage yourself more by carrying on.
> 
> In reality it is better to use something that helps repair your body.
> 
> ...



This is left over from a really bad bout of sciatica , the quack doctor prescribed them and some exercises to do , many of which i had alrady started thanks to doctor google.
I only use them when i am really bad , helped when my finger swelled up so bad i could not bend it properly on Saturday as well .

Tried a cold water soak today, wow it tingles when you get out .


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## montage (4 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Would having 1 pint of semi skimmed milk after each commute, so am and pm be a little too much over the top



For opitimal recovery use freshly squeezed breast milk ..... do you have any close relatives that are lactating by any chance?


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## gb155 (4 Jul 2011)

montage said:


> For opitimal recovery use freshly squeezed breast milk ..... do you have any close relatives that are lactating by any chance?



MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Right from the source eh ?


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## Wednesday (4 Jul 2011)

zacklaws said:


> The problem with these amino's is that they are quite expensive so only get used when I think that I will need them, Holland and Barratt did a 2 for price of 1 sale a few weeks back so I stocked up.



Looks like MyProtein would be a bit cheaper. Essential Amino Acid powder.


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## gb155 (4 Jul 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> There is no way Gaz's daily allowance should be less than 2000 calories



what should it be then mate ?


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## zacklaws (4 Jul 2011)

Wednesday said:


> Looks like MyProtein would be a bit cheaper. Essential Amino Acid powder.



It is'nt actually, already looked at this option, its £12.79 for 250grms which only gives just over 16 servings, maybe bulk may work out cheaper, Holland and barratts "Amino 1500" is £15.09 for 150 tablets giving 50 servings if you take 3 a day. Holland and Barratts amino liquid is slightly dearer than my protein

Amino Load is £13.75 and based on mixing it in 500ml bottles gives 20 servings, still cheaper than My Protein.

The cheapest option is when H&B have a sale, but there may be cheaper options online


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## ColinJ (4 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> I have a serious Ibuprofen habit. I take a couple before going running, and a couple a couple of hours afterwards.


Guys - *Ibuprofen isn't something to knock back like sweets*. It should be for essential use only. 

A mate of mine was only minutes from death when he vomited out about 3 or 4 pints of blood from an Ibuprofen-related stomach ulcer which perforated. Fortunately for him, he managed to make a 999 call before he blacked out and an ambulance was only a couple of minutes away when he made the call.

As for daily calories Gaz - as discussed on other occasions ... looking at your current reported weight which includes your loose skin, you shouldn't be trying to lose more weight. Bearing in mind how much cycling you are doing, I reckon you should therefore be on 3,000+ calories a day!

There are online calculators into which you can plug your lean body mass and they will give you your basal metabolic rate (how much energy you burn just being alive). On top of that you have to guesstimate how much you burn doing your cycling and other activity. That would be related to your weight and the efficiency of your body. I can assure you that a man of your size doing 200 miles of cycling a week needs at least 3,000 cals a day to maintain weight; _probably a lot more_. 

The fact that you are not taking in anywhere near that is why the weight is still falling off you, and you are now pretty much at the weight that we were worried about a few weeks ago! 



gb155 said:


> SHEET, DOH AND DOUBLE DOH
> 
> I DID Mean 13st 12 Pounds
> 
> Now I know why your all so worried



We were concerned, but no need - you were actually 13-12. Phew, it was just a typo! 



ColinJ said:


> Ah ah! Still, if you don't stop now then in a few weeks time you will be 13-2 and then we will be back to where we thought we were, if you see what I mean!





gb155 said:


> Indeed :-)


Er, you've lost another 7 pounds since then ...


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## fossyant (4 Jul 2011)

Go with the milk. I drink a fair amount, and can quite easily knock back a pint. Adding a bit of milkshake mix is great after a ride !


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## fossyant (4 Jul 2011)

Like Colinj says - watch *regular* ibuprofen intake - it's nasty on the stomach.


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## JonnyBlade (4 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Typing on here to take my mind off it
> 
> I've done 90 miles in the last 2 days , today's were sort of accidental but it puts me on almost 200 for the week, fully intend to taper for Sunday , would drinking milk aid recovery ?



Try this, http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from...OUS+CHOCOLATE+DRINK&_sacat=See-All-Categories I can fully recommend it as a drink for the ride and for after. Does not need to be hot and is equally beneficial cold


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## potsy (4 Jul 2011)

Rob3rt said:


> There is no way Gaz's daily allowance should be less than 2000 calories



That was a conservative estimate, I don't think he even has that amount.
No wonder your weight is still dropping Gaz, definitely time to up the intake.

Are you still trying new things? 
You could go full fat milk to up it even more.


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jul 2011)

To be honest guys, Amino Acid suppliments are not really required unless you're a pro-athelete, for relative mortals, milk is more than good enough, where do you think they get the AAs from?
Milk has far more to offer the body than pure Amino Acids.


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## Wednesday (5 Jul 2011)

zacklaws said:


> It is'nt actually, already looked at this option, its £12.79 for 250grms which only gives just over 16 servings, maybe bulk may work out cheaper, Holland and barratts "Amino 1500" is £15.09 for 150 tablets giving 50 servings if you take 3 a day. Holland and Barratts amino liquid is slightly dearer than my protein
> 
> Amino Load is £13.75 and based on mixing it in 500ml bottles gives 20 servings, still cheaper than My Protein.
> 
> The cheapest option is when H&B have a sale, but there may be cheaper options online



I was just going by weight, since I figure they work out the recommended doses pretty much at random.


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## gb155 (5 Jul 2011)

ColinJ said:


> Guys - *Ibuprofen isn't something to knock back like sweets*. It should be for essential use only.
> 
> A mate of mine was only minutes from death when he vomited out about 3 or 4 pints of blood from an Ibuprofen-related stomach ulcer which perforated. Fortunately for him, he managed to make a 999 call before he blacked out and an ambulance was only a couple of minutes away when he made the call.
> 
> ...





LOL

Ok, I'm dealing with it, its just so damn hard, im scared to death of gaining weight and falling down a slippery slope, but, yesterday, I had around 2700 cals, I did still lose around half a pound, but at least the loss slowed and I took much more in then normal 

I'll get there, I cant not !!!!!!


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## gb155 (5 Jul 2011)

fossyant said:


> Go with the milk. I drink a fair amount, and can quite easily knock back a pint. Adding a bit of milkshake mix is great after a ride !



Milkshake freaks me out

but I knocked back a pint in the morning and evening yesterday, so will do that for the rest of the week and just see hows it goes.

Gaz


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## Rob3rt (5 Jul 2011)

ColinJ said:


> As for daily calories Gaz - as discussed on other occasions ... looking at your current reported weight which includes your loose skin, you shouldn't be trying to lose more weight. Bearing in mind how much cycling you are doing, I reckon you should therefore be on 3,000+ calories a day!
> 
> There are online calculators into which you can plug your lean body mass and they will give you your basal metabolic rate (how much energy you burn just being alive). On top of that you have to guesstimate how much you burn doing your cycling and other activity. That would be related to your weight and the efficiency of your body. I can assure you that a man of your size doing 200 miles of cycling a week needs at least 3,000 cals a day to maintain weight; _probably a lot more_.
> 
> The fact that you are not taking in anywhere near that is why the weight is still falling off you, and you are now pretty much at the weight that we were worried about a few weeks ago!





gb155 said:


> what should it be then mate ?



Like Colin says based on your height, weight and activity levels, without putting your numbers into online calculators, I would take a punt at over 3000 easily. At your height and slightly below your weight and running about 25-30 miles a week + 2 core conditioning sessions I was eating over 3500 to maintain weight. I know numbers vary from one person to another, but not by over 1500kcal!


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## ventoux50 (5 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Milkshake freaks me out
> 
> but I knocked back a pint in the morning and evening yesterday, so will do that for the rest of the week and just see hows it goes.
> 
> Gaz




Gaz, listen mate, I've read/followed your story through these forum pages and firstly - well done, and good luck with your progression to fitness, health and positive mental approach to life.

I have to say though that by now I'm sure you really have a good idea about whats good/bad from a diet perspective, and also from a fuelling for cycling perspective. 

You obviously have the cycling bug big time, so might I suggest that it might be a really good idea to approach someone who is directly involved in coaching and sports nutrition (sports nutrition is actually no different to normal nutrition advice, just a bit more specific to your athletic needs)

With a coach/nutritionist behind you you will not just have expert advice tailored to your needs but also another source of positive reinforcement which you might need.

Theres an excellent facility in Sheffield which can provide a tailor made package to address any issues you might have and they can also provide baseline figures for current fitness and predict likely improvements over time.

have a look here :

http://www.csmapc.co.uk/

obviously theres a cost involved, but in the long term it might be money well spent.

Hope this is useful.

My own thoughts on recovery after a hard ride (for what it's worth) 
definitely a cold bath immersing the legs for 15 minutes.
either SIS rego(within 20 mins of ride ending) with a bedtime SIS nocte if it's been a really hard session, 
or
a high protein low carb snack within 20 mins of finishing the ride with water or tonic water (contains quinine to avoid cramps) 

Keep up the good work, stay positive !


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## Alun (5 Jul 2011)

A mile of cycling will burn about 40 cals, this is an average obviously, but 200 miles would be 8000 cals which is large enough to be factored in to any calculations.

+1 for the milk though, esp chocolate milk. The long life stuff doesn't taste quite as good but can be left in the car without going off whilst you're riding.


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## ColinJ (5 Jul 2011)

gb155 said:


> Ok, I'm dealing with it, its just so damn hard, im scared to death of gaining weight and falling down a slippery slope, but, yesterday, I had around 2700 cals, I did still lose around half a pound, but at least the loss slowed and I took much more in then normal
> 
> I'll get there, I cant not !!!!!!


_*Gaz, don't worry about falling down the slippery slope of gaining weight when you are already falling off the cliff of undereating!*_

If you are right about your loose skin (which you plan to have surgically removed) weighing a couple of stone, then the rest of your body already weighs only just over 11 stone and even that weight is falling at 2+ pounds a week. You don't have time to mess about with this, you need to stabilise your weight _NOW!_

I think you have _two_ eating disorders, not _one_ - SED _and_ undereating which will soon become full-blown anorexia. 

Even if you are currently telling us the truth about your weight, I would almost guarantee that you will start fibbing about it soon. I think you will tell us that you are stable at 13 stone, as your weight continues to fall. I've seen it at close hand. Someone swears that they are not losing weight, but absolutely refuses to get on the scales. Meanwhile, extra bones are sticking out every week that goes by ..._
_

I also think that you are overtraining and that is amplifying the problems of your undereating. 

I'm sure that if I asked you about your cycling, you'd be able to tell me exactly what heart rate you were at on what hill, how many feet you climbed, what your mileage for the week was, what your average speed was and so on. 

If, however, I asked you for a detailed description of your planned recovery sessions during the week, what would you say? When did you take a break from the bike and why? What did you do instead? How was that supposed to help? What are the benefits of rest?

What you have achieved so far has been wonderful but you have to understand that the cure that prevented the fat from killing you is also rapidly becoming the _new_ thing that will kill you.

If you can't force yourself to take in the extra 1,000 to 1,500 cals a day to stabilise your weight, then at least stop overtraining, take some well-earned rest and then you won't be burning so much weight off!


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## Sh4rkyBloke (5 Jul 2011)

Cold bath after a long ride???? I always have a nice hot bath which both relaxes me and stops any aching... am I a bit weird or have I just been lucky and done no damage (that I know of) by doing this??


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jul 2011)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> Cold bath after a long ride???? I always have a nice hot bath which both relaxes me and stops any aching... am I a bit weird or have I just been lucky and done no damage (that I know of) by doing this??


I think that's the 'old wisdom', cold is the new hot!


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## JonnyBlade (5 Jul 2011)

Wednesday said:


> I was just going by weight, since I figure they work out the recommended doses pretty much at random.



Are you an exiled pig?


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## Furkz (5 Jul 2011)

milk, porride, banana and protein in blender = done


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