# Charge Spoon versus Brooks B17: Fight Time



## jay clock (29 Feb 2016)

So the two saddles that seem to get the most fanatical praise on here are the Charge Spoon and the Brooks B17. I currently have the Spoon on two road bikes plus a couple of spares. And a superb choice for me for long rides (up to 112 miles). On my tourer (Koga Miyata WT) I have a Brooks which I am happy with but not ecstatic. And it has worn in over 10 years so not new

Any views from anyone who has used a Spoon on a tourer, ie in a more upright position, and particularly if you had a Brooks before....?


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## Profpointy (29 Feb 2016)

I love my brooks, and would be reluctant to risk change - upside, save a few quid - downside - misery.

If the charge spoon suits you, the same logic applies. I can't see the benefit of the brooks for you being worth the bother. For the same reason, I see no reason to try a charge spoon


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## steveindenmark (29 Feb 2016)

I also have both.

Charge Spoon. Great saddle, no problem if it gets wet, maintenence free, cheap as chips, comfortable for miles and miles, different colours. Lightweight.

Brooks B17. Great saddle, Iconic, comfortable for miles and miles, stays wet a long time if not looked after or covered, very expensive, heavy, few colour choices, needs regular maintenence. Status symbol. Can take an age to break in. Not everyone has a Brooks bum.

Both great saddles but I am more inclined to use a charge Spoon now.


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## mcshroom (29 Feb 2016)

It's very much personal preference. Brooks saddles are very well thought of in the Audax and touring communities, however I like my Spoons, one of which is on my touring bike and my longest ride on it was 420 km, or about 1200km in a two week tour.

I haven't tried a Brooks, as a)Spoons are cheap and seem to work, 2) they don't need protecting from the rain and iii) I may find I like a Brooks more, which would be an expensive discovery as I'd then want to change all my bikes over


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## jefmcg (29 Feb 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> few colour choices,


Which saddles have more colour choices?


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## mcshroom (29 Feb 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Which saddles have more colour choices?


The Spoon has far more colour choices, plus camo and tartan variants


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## I like Skol (29 Feb 2016)

jay clock said:


> So the two saddles that seem to get the most fanatical praise on here are the Charge Spoon and the Brooks B17. I currently have the Spoon on two road bikes plus a couple of spares. And a superb choice for me for long rides (up to 112 miles). On my tourer (Koga Miyata WT) I have a Brooks which I am happy with but not ecstatic. And it has worn in over 10 years so not new
> 
> Any views from anyone who has used a Spoon on a tourer, ie in a more upright position, and particularly if you had a Brooks before....?


I don't understand your post? 

You have Spoon saddles on two of your bikes and you love them. You have 'A N Other' saddle on your tourer that you are not 100% sure about. You have spare Spoons that you can try on the tourer. What is your point/question?

PS: I have a Spoon on my hybrid and can happily ride it in comfort for two 100+ mile days on the trot if that answers your question (and I don't wear padded shorts!).


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## John the Monkey (29 Feb 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Which saddles have more colour choices?


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## jay clock (29 Feb 2016)

I like Skol said:


> I don't understand your post?
> 
> You have Spoon saddles on two of your bikes and you love them. You have 'A N Other' saddle on your tourer that you are not 100% sure about. You have spare Spoons that you can try on the tourer. What is your point/question?
> 
> PS: I have a Spoon on my hybrid and can happily ride it in comfort for two 100+ mile days on the trot if that answers your question (and I don't wear padded shorts!).


The reason is ( odd I know!) is that I have the tourer in the loft and not easy to get out, and for storage reasons I tend to get it out as late as possible before a tour. So really trying to see if someone else has done it already. Which you seem to have done!. Will pop a Spoon on for a quick test when I get the tourer down


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## raleighnut (29 Feb 2016)

TBH the B17 is not my favourite Brooks, the B17n (narrow) fits me a lot better.


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## Drago (29 Feb 2016)

For me the B17.

However, as my arse is likely to be a different size, shape, firmness and age to the OPs what works for me is almost certainly irrelevant to him.


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## Profpointy (29 Feb 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Which saddles have more colour choices?



yebbutt - that's only 3 acceptable colours


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## jefmcg (29 Feb 2016)

Profpointy said:


> yebbutt - that's only 3 acceptable colours


Well, is it THE 3 acceptable colours, or is it missing some?


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## jefmcg (29 Feb 2016)

mcshroom said:


> The Spoon has far more colour choices, plus camo and tartan variants



I doubt there's tartan, but you can definitely get a B17 in camo. Mind you, it ups the price a bit, and I'm not sure how you would break it in.


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## Profpointy (29 Feb 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Well, is it THE 3 acceptable colours, or is it missing some?



Yep, I think the "THE" is fair


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## Hardrock93 (29 Feb 2016)

After trying the Spoon on an MTB, then a hybrid, I deemed it an instrument of torture and consigned it to a dusty shelf in the garage. Much later, I gave it one last chance on my 1980s road bike and it instantly redeemed itself. For me, it wasn't suited to an upright riding position, but is fine for a more stretched posture. Entirely down to personal preference.


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## outlash (29 Feb 2016)

Obviously it's down to personal preference, but as a curveball, a Cambium?


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## steveindenmark (29 Feb 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Which saddles have more colour choices?


You are correct.

But I wouldnt put most of those colours on any of my bikes.


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## Old jon (1 Mar 2016)

Colour?? If you can see it when you are using it, you may be riding in a distinctive manner . . .

Brooks, FWIW


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## martint235 (1 Mar 2016)

outlash said:


> Obviously it's down to personal preference, but as a curveball, a Cambium?


I've been thinking of getting a Cambium but I have concerns about it lowering the power I can put into the pedals if it's softer than I think.


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## jefmcg (1 Mar 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> You are correct.
> 
> But I wouldnt put most of those colours on any of my bikes.


so is there are colour missing you require? Most saddles don't seem to come in many colours (black, white, black and white mostly) so it seems a strange criticism. All brooks come in black, and I don't think you would want a white leather saddle. I certainly wouldn't.


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## martint235 (1 Mar 2016)

Out of interest, is there anyone who's had a Charge Spoon and _didn't_ like it?


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## Drago (1 Mar 2016)

martint235 said:


> Out of interest, is there anyone who's had a Charge Spoon and _didn't_ like it?



Me. A couple of riders I know. Conversely, I also know people who love them. It all hinges on them topography of one's bottom.


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## raleighnut (1 Mar 2016)

jefmcg said:


> so is there are colour missing you require? Most saddles don't seem to come in many colours (black, white, black and white mostly) so it seems a strange criticism. All brooks come in black, and I don't think you would want a white leather saddle. I certainly wouldn't.


Not even one of these


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## steveindenmark (1 Mar 2016)

I did say MOST colours. My Brooks is black.


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## jefmcg (1 Mar 2016)

raleighnut said:


> Not even one of these


I'm a woman. So, no.


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## FrankCrank (1 Mar 2016)

Got this beauty waiting to go on something I'm building. Not sure if comfy, more for the look really........


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## outlash (1 Mar 2016)

FrankCrank said:


> Got this beauty waiting to go on something I'm building. Not sure if comfy, more for the look really........
> View attachment 120464



Is it a fork lift truck you're building? It looks rather substantial


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## jiberjaber (1 Mar 2016)

Wider the saddle the more comfy on an upright posture, so I would have thought the B17 would be more comfortable for an upright ride compared to the charge spoon, though as someone has already mentioned, what suits one bum might not suit another......


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## MikeW-71 (1 Mar 2016)

martint235 said:


> I've been thinking of getting a Cambium but I have concerns about it lowering the power I can put into the pedals if it's softer than I think.


It's no softer than any regular saddle. Get a test one if you can.

I'm another that didn't fully get on with a Spoon. It was fine for 20 miles, but got progressively less comfortable after that.


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## Rickshaw Phil (1 Mar 2016)

martint235 said:


> Out of interest, is there anyone who's had a Charge Spoon and _didn't_ like it?




Hateful thing! Beyond 20 miles it was uncomfortable, beyond 40 miles it was unbearable. I did once do a 50 miler on it which involved a lot of standing on the pedals towards the end. Despite trying all sorts of different setups I eventually had to give it up as a bad job.

The B17 it was replaced with isn't perfect by any means (I've finally come to the conclusion it's too wide for me) but has been good enough to do a few century rides on, including my personal best of 131 miles.

Currently giving a Brooks Team Pro a try. It feels better for me shape-wise but will need some breaking in.


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## craigwend (1 Mar 2016)

Profpointy said:


> yebbutt - that's only 3 acceptable colours


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## beastie (1 Mar 2016)

I used a Spoon for 2 years and it wasn't bad ......for 50 miles. After that it was painful and if I was riding any distance the next day it was even worse. I use a Selle SMP hybrid on both road and mountain bikes now and it is so much more comfortable


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## raleighnut (1 Mar 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Hateful thing! Beyond 20 miles it was uncomfortable, beyond 40 miles it was unbearable. I did once do a 50 miler on it which involved a lot of standing on the pedals towards the end. Despite trying all sorts of different setups I eventually had to give it up as a bad job.
> 
> The B17 it was replaced with isn't perfect by any means (I've finally come to the conclusion it's too wide for me) but has been good enough to do a few century rides on, including my personal best of 131 miles.
> 
> Currently giving a Brooks Team Pro a try. It feels better for me shape-wise but will need some breaking in.


B17n does it for me then in descending order Swift Titanium/Swallow 2005 Titanium Ltd Edition (both about the same comfort wise), B5n and then the B17s (Copper Rivets)
The B17n (Narrow) is on my Ridgeback and was my choice/will be my choice of bike for anything over 50 miles.


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## Rickshaw Phil (1 Mar 2016)

raleighnut said:


> B17n does it for me then in descending order Swift Titanium/Swallow 2005 Titanium Ltd Edition (both about the same comfort wise), B5n and then the B17s (Copper Rivets)
> The B17n (Narrow) is on my Ridgeback and was my choice/will be my choice of bike for anything over 50 miles.


I suspect the B17N would work for me too and I'll probably get one at some point in the future.

I took a punt on the Team Pro after noticing how popular they are with the Audax crowd (and after admiring a well broken in one on a parked bike a little while back) and reasoned that they probably have an idea about long distance comfort.

Doing a century on it having only done 100 running in miles probably wasn't the best idea but it only felt bad after 60 miles and will hopefully improve with use.


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## raleighnut (1 Mar 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> I suspect the B17N would work for me too and I'll probably get one at some point in the future.
> 
> I took a punt on the Team Pro after noticing how popular they are with the Audax crowd (and after admiring a well broken in one on a parked bike a little while back) and reasoned that they probably have an idea about long distance comfort.
> 
> Doing a century on it having only done 100 running in miles probably wasn't the best idea but it only felt bad after 60 miles and will hopefully improve with use.


The B17n is 9mm narrower than the Team Pro.


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## martint235 (1 Mar 2016)

I've had 2 B17N but my issue with them was I could never get rid of the creaking noise. Loads of proofide around the rivets and where it joined the frame etc but no joy. Over 100 miles I need peace and quiet


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## jay clock (9 Jan 2018)

I have to laugh. I was thinking of posting on CC to see if anyone had views on B17 versus Spoon. So I googled "Brooks b17 versus Charge Spoon" and lo and behold the top result was my very own posting on this thread as the OP!!

The situation is still that I rate my Charge Spoons (on road bikes) 10 out of 10 but the Brooks B17 on my tourer only gets rated. 6.5 out of 10. As I am about to do this ride www.usacycle2018.com I am reluctant to simply stick the Spoon on, as I don't want to get a few days in and be really uncomfortable 

I will at least try a few rides with a Spoon on the tourer and see. It does have the plus of reducing the bike weight by a few kg!


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## Rickshaw Phil (9 Jan 2018)

jay clock said:


> I have to laugh. I was thinking of posting on CC to see if anyone had views on B17 versus Spoon. So I googled "Brooks b17 versus Charge Spoon" and lo and behold the top result was my very own posting on this thread as the OP!!
> 
> The situation is still that I rate my Charge Spoons (on road bikes) 10 out of 10 but the Brooks B17 on my tourer only gets rated. 6.5 out of 10. As I am about to do this ride www.usacycle2018.com I am reluctant to simply stick the Spoon on, as I don't want to get a few days in and be really uncomfortable
> 
> I will at least try a few rides with a Spoon on the tourer and see. It does have the plus of reducing the bike weight by a few kg!


I'll be interested to know how you get on.

Since the thread has been resurrected I'll update my post above and say that when a Dawes Galaxy was added to my stable in mid 2016 I couldn't get on with the B17 on it and did get a B17N to try out. It has been great so far. Comfy straight out of the box (I never used to believe it when people said that before) and big distances no problem. Getting the right width makes all the difference.

The Team Pro on the Raleigh has taken ages to really break in but now that it has I'm quite happy with it. It gave me no issues on a 125 mile ride during the summer.


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## raleighnut (9 Jan 2018)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> I'll be interested to know how you get on.
> 
> Since the thread has been resurrected I'll update my post above and say that when a Dawes Galaxy was added to my stable in mid 2016 I couldn't get on with the B17 on it and did get a B17N to try out. It has been great so far. Comfy straight out of the box (I never used to believe it when people said that before) and big distances no problem. Getting the right width makes all the difference.
> 
> The Team Pro on the Raleigh has taken ages to really break in but now that it has I'm quite happy with it. It gave me no issues on a 125 mile ride during the summer.


Another big fan of the B17n here and also it's predecessor the B5n (same shape but 'dimpled' top)


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## Bodhbh (9 Jan 2018)

jay clock said:


> I have to laugh. I was thinking of posting on CC to see if anyone had views on B17 versus Spoon. So I googled "Brooks b17 versus Charge Spoon" and lo and behold the top result was my very own posting on this thread as the OP!!
> 
> The situation is still that I rate my Charge Spoons (on road bikes) 10 out of 10 but the Brooks B17 on my tourer only gets rated. 6.5 out of 10. As I am about to do this ride www.usacycle2018.com I am reluctant to simply stick the Spoon on, as I don't want to get a few days in and be really uncomfortable
> 
> I will at least try a few rides with a Spoon on the tourer and see. It does have the plus of reducing the bike weight by a few kg!



I think I'm in the same boat as you. I used to have a B17, and got on okay with it, but it seems it needed a breaking in period - and I'm talking about my arse not the saddle. I mean if I hadn't being doing much miles on it - even tho the saddle was well worn in - it would play up on me and it wouldn't always take long into a ride either. I've never had a problem with a spoon yet and now have them on all bikes (or the copy that's almost the same, I forget what it's called now).


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## kingrollo (9 Jan 2018)

I didn't get on with the charge spoon - but the brooks B17 imperial did the trick for me. I should add that I had a hamstring injury where the hamstring inserts into the pelvis, which was giving severe ass pain. The brooks worked (IMO) because it 'gives' as a whole where as a plastic saddle doesn't - the spoon wasn't the only plastic saddle I didn't get along with.
Incidentally I really don't think Brooks saddles are expensive any more - mine was around £70 off amazon - its coming up for 4 years old and still looks to have plenty of life in it - it does look slightly daft on a CF road bike - but who sees once my ass is on it ?


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## jay clock (9 Jan 2018)

OK, so I have a plan. The Spoon is now on in place of the B17. I will ride it a few times (unlikely to be more than a 2 hr max at any point) and see how it goes. I do accept that a saddle that is ok for a 180k triathlon may not be the same for a 100k on a more upright bike. 

If I do go to America with the Spoon, I can always get my wife to Fedex the Brooks out if not happy.

Finally two big pluses:
1 The Spoon weighs 268 which is exactly half of the 536 for the Brooks
2 (IMHO) the Spoon looks 100% cooler


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## jay clock (9 Jan 2018)

Also, it makes little difference (as I also have plastic Spoons) but the one I have put on is leather


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## jefmcg (9 Jan 2018)

jay clock said:


> unlikely to be more than a 2 hr max at any point


If you are planning to do 100km a day, I really would endeavour to do that distance at least once, if possible with a fully kitted up and laden bike, but definitely with the saddle.



jay clock said:


> 2 (IMHO) the Spoon looks 100% cooler


In the UK, sure, but in New Mexico? Maybe not so much.



jay clock said:


> Also, it makes little difference (as I also have plastic Spoons) but the one I have put on is leather


If the comfort is the same, I'd suggest using the cheapest one. If you end up getting the Brooks shipped to you, a sub £20 saddle can disposed of without much thought (charity shop rather than rubbish bin trash can), but a circa £60 one has to be carried with you or packaged and shipped back.

Either way, good luck with your adventure. One advantage I have notices with a Brooks saddle is that airflow through the holes and the leather itself means that things stay fresher on a hot day.


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## Soltydog (9 Jan 2018)

I tried the spoon saddle & hated it, B17 must really suit my butt, never had a minutes bother with it, comfy from day 1. It's now on my single speed which hardly gets ridden & seems a shame, I have a B17 Imperial on the winter bike, but I don't find it quite as comfy as the std  
I've recently put a C17 on the Ti bike & again it's been comfy from the off, but the rubberised saddle rubs & squeaks on the clamp with just about every pedal stroke 

& as for colours, think the B17 is still available in Black, Brown, Honey, Blue, Green & Red, not as limited in colours as most other saddles


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## Biff600 (9 Jan 2018)

What about a fur-trimmed Spoon ??


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## Soltydog (9 Jan 2018)

Biff600 said:


> What about a fur-trimmed Spoon ??
> 
> View attachment 390900


Would imagine that would be worse than the brooks if caught in a shower


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## raleighnut (9 Jan 2018)

Soltydog said:


> Would imagine that would be worse than the brooks if caught in a shower


No worse than the 'Horsehair' mattress saddles once foisted on us by Brooks (amongst others)


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## raleighnut (9 Jan 2018)

These abominations,






if you've ever sat on a wet one that has frozen then you'll know,


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## Milzy (9 Jan 2018)

I did 150 miles on a spoon and it became dreadful. It’s only raves about because it’s decent comfort for such a cheap price.


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## I like Skol (9 Jan 2018)

Milzy said:


> I did 150 miles on a spoon and it became dreadful. It’s only raves about because it’s decent comfort for such a cheap price.


I did 185 miles on a spoon and I was bl00dy tired at the end, but still as happy to sit down as I suspect I would have been on any other saddle, and still rode my bike the next day to and from the train stations (only about 10 miles in total).


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## jay clock (9 Jan 2018)

I have done 4 Ironmans and 10 half Ironmans on Spoons plus all the training to get to the start line so I am very happy with them over 30k+ km. My only concern is if a different bike feels different


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## Vantage (10 Jan 2018)

I had a Madison Flux, basically a Spoon with a different name.
I'll admit that in the brown faux leather it did look quite cool but it was only visible when my arse wasn't perched on it. Looks are completely pointless.
It also weighed less than my B17, but on a tourer this is also of little significance as weight can be easily trimmed elsewhere.
After about 20 miles the pain on my perennial area was pretty bad. As said previously, I too ended up finishing the remaining miles of a few rides having to stand up.
I've had similar issues with first my Nidd and then my B17. But unlike the Flux/Spoon, on a proper leather saddle it was an easy fix....Just cut out a hole in the middle!


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## jefmcg (11 Jan 2018)

jay clock said:


> I have done 4 Ironmans and 10 half Ironmans on Spoons plus all the training to get to the start line so I am very happy with them over 30k+ km. My only concern is if a different bike feels different


I switch my Brooks from a very upright folder to my road bike and it was just as comfortable.


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## Edgy Dee (11 Jan 2018)

Are we comparing apples with pears? I did a naive JoGLE on a B17 ten years ago with no botty issues, but my posture then was very upright. Nowadays my rear is fairly well broken in and I rarely experience discomfort, but my posture is much lower than it used to be. I like the spoon because it's light and looks good. But put the two side by side and the Brooks looks like a side of beef. I'm planning a return LEJoG in the near future, and selected the B17 Imperial Narrow as my perch of choice. I'm in the middle of butchering it in time-honoured traditional fashion - new thread with pics to follow when it's done.


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## bigjim (11 Jan 2018)

I've toured a few times with a Spoon on a Galaxy. I think your weight also may come into it. I'm 14.5 stone. I've never had a problem with a Spoon but need to cream up first to stop any chafing. I can tour on a B17 and do not need to use any lube, but I do have get the saddle position just right or I suffer perineal pressure with the Brooks. No problem in that area with the slimmer Spoon.


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## Blue Hills (11 Jan 2018)

Edgy Dee said:


> I'm in the middle of butchering it in time-honoured traditional fashion - new thread with pics to follow when it's done.



The brooks or your "botty" as you term it? If the latter please reserve pics for your nearest and dearest.


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## jay clock (12 Jan 2018)

bigjim said:


> I've toured a few times with a Spoon on a Galaxy. I think your weight also may come into it. I'm 14.5 stone. I've never had a problem with a Spoon but need to cream up first to stop any chafing. I can tour on a B17 and do not need to use any lube, but I do have get the saddle position just right or I suffer perineal pressure with the Brooks. No problem in that area with the slimmer Spoon.


that all sounds very similar to me. To confuse things further I may be about to change my bike which may affect position and comfort.


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## Blue Hills (12 Jan 2018)

jay clock said:


> that all sounds very similar to me. To confuse things further I may be about to change my bike which may affect position and comfort.


you sure this is wise jay so close to the big trip?


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## Spoked Wheels (12 Jan 2018)

The Charge Spoon and my backside parted company after only 2 months.... they just couldn't see eye to eye.

I've had a few brooks, the Swallow was a bit too narrow for me, I really tried to get used to it but I gave up after a year... I settled with one that is basically a B17 with springs... I forgot what model this is.


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## Ian H (12 Jan 2018)

I've parted company with my two venerable Brooks Professionals (both 1980s vintage). I'm not enamoured of the quality of Brooks's current offerings.

After some experimentation I think I'm decided on Gilles Berthoud's offerings. The only difficulty is that they have very short rails, so seatposts with more layback are required.


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## FishFright (12 Jan 2018)

I tried a Charge Spoon briefly. It really didn't suit me one bit so I gave it to a friend to try and he now has 3 of them . 
I've not owned a Brooks yet but I get along nicely with Spa's Nidd and Aire Ti.


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## Blue Hills (12 Jan 2018)

In connection with this and men;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42651568

Encouraging kind of, but no one is going to stand up as often as it suggests.

On the topic, I do have a spoon but never fitted.

Did have a brooks but never dared fit it. Prices shot up so much I sold it for a fair profit.

My saddles are all cheap and all fine. You don't need to spend much for a saddle un!ess trying to shave grams. Just needs to be the right one.

And adjustment can be important. One that near crippled/genitally mutilated me is now one of my most comfortable.


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## Alan O (12 Jan 2018)

I do seem to have a Brooks bum, and I spent more than 15 years riding a touring bike on a B17 - and once it was broken in, I never had a moment of posterior discomfort no matter how long my rides.

Back to cycling just over a year ago, and the 3 bikes I'm currently using have the following saddles...

Steel 'road' bike - Brooks Swallow
MTB - Charge Spoon
Steel tourer - Brooks Cambium C17

The Swallow is comfortable right from the start, though I haven't done long distances on it yet. The leather is a bit thin, though, and I have my doubts about its longevity.

The Spoon is fine for my MTB rides, which rarely exceed around 20 miles, but once or twice I've felt a bit of pressure by the end of a ride.

The Cambium is superbly comfortable, on rides up to 100 miles (and even then, my bum was about the only part of me not hurting).

I keep meaning to try the Spoon on my tourer to see how it is on longer rides, but every time I start out I just think the Cambium is so nice...

Anyway, this is just my bum and yours will be different. And I don't use padded shorts or creams or any of that.


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## Spoked Wheels (12 Jan 2018)

User said:


> Flyer?


That's the one


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## Edgy Dee (12 Jan 2018)

Alan O said:


> I don't use padded shorts or creams or any of that.


I was going to add that apparel is a critical factor in the posterior interface, but you have out-'hard-man'ed me!  I agree, a Brooks is probably more forgiving of neglect in that department. Generally I think it's worth investing in the chamois as well as in the saddle.

As an off-spinner, what about the San Marco Rolls? There's a classic saddle that's a bit more 'race-posture' friendly.


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## jay clock (30 Jan 2018)

OK jury has returned and and given a majority verdict. Brooks a technical KO.

I had a ride for about 90 mins a couple of weeks back with the Spoon on my Koga Miyata and it was meh. So Brooks back on. Today I did 80km fully laden to test the bike, and a bit of barse chafeage (will lube up) but fine.

Bike filthy now!

If anyone wants to read the latest go to www.usacycle2018.com


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