# Audax: Free controls



## Dogtrousers (7 Jun 2017)

All the audaxes I've done have had either manned controls where you get your card stamped, or info controls where you try to answer a question (that is normally straightforward, but sometimes infuriatingly baffling, but that's another story).

But I've now signed up for one with free controls where you have to get a receipt. Now, years of filling in expenses forms and screwing them up have taught me that if it's possible to do something wrong, I will do it wrong. 

So: For a free control where you're told to get a receipt, what's the procedure. Is it possible to screw it up? Or do I just find a garage and buy a lion bar? What do I do then? Do I have to annotate the receipt for the organiser? What if nowhere is open? Or if I can't find anywhere where I can leave my bike with adequate security?

What could possibly go wrong?


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## raleighnut (7 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> All the audaxes I've done have had either manned controls where you get your card stamped, or info controls where you try to answer a question (that is normally straightforward, but sometimes infuriatingly baffling, but that's another story).
> 
> But I've now signed up for one with free controls where you have to get a receipt. Now, years of filling in expenses forms and screwing them up have taught me that if it's possible to do something wrong, I will do it wrong.
> 
> ...


Photo of the location on yer phone as well?


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## smutchin (7 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> do I just find a garage and buy a lion bar?



That should do the trick nicely.



> What if nowhere is open?



The organiser has a responsibility to make sure there are appropriate places to obtain proof of passage - the event would not be allowed to go ahead if the controls are deemed unsuitable.

What event is it? Perhaps others familiar with the ride/locations can help assuage your fears with more specific info...


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## smutchin (7 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Or if I can't find anywhere where I can leave my bike with adequate security?



Carrying a small, lightweight café lock is a good idea - it only needs to be strong enough to be a deterrent to opportunist thieves. On the recent LWL 400, two bikes were stolen at around 1am from outside the Lambourn control, which was a village hall on the edge of town - it's easy to be complacent when you're in a seemingly quiet location. Luckily the bikes were later recovered but it's not worth taking a chance.


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## smutchin (7 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> What if I get a receipt and it just says 75p or whatever but doesn't have the name of the town on it? What if it's not legible? Do I need to go and find another one?



This is very rarely a problem these days. Again, it's the kind of thing the organiser should have considered when devising the route and selecting the control locations.



> ATM receipts. I guess I have to make an actual withdrawal.



No, you can usually just get a balance statement - as long as you don't mind the organiser seeing how stinking rich you are!



> I just know that I will lose my receipts. It has happened so many times for work expenses. It feels like a doomed exercise.



Plastic ziplock bags are usually provided along with your brevet card at the start. Keep your brevet card and any receipts in this bag.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> For a free control where you're told to get a receipt, what's the procedure. Is it possible to screw it up? Or do I just find a garage and buy a lion bar? What do I do then? Do I have to annotate the receipt for the organiser? What if nowhere is open? Or if I can't find anywhere where I can leave my bike with adequate security?





Dogtrousers said:


> What if I get a receipt and it just says 75p or whatever but doesn't have the name of the town on it? What if it's not legible? Do I need to go and find another one? I'm terrible at fiddly procedural things like this. ATM receipts. I guess I have to make an actual withdrawal. I just know that I will lose my receipts.


First of all, the ride is there to be enjoyed, and detail like this must not be allowed to interfere with that. Some riders enter an audax but do not bother with this evidence of passage gathering. So what if their ride is not verified (or whatever) and their name does not appear in the list of those completing. They've had a good ride, or a challenging one; or both. But if external (to the rider) validation is important to the rider then this is a minor issue that needs to be completed with minimum fuss.
Since you're suggesting this may be an issue for you, here are a few suggestions, based on what I do.
1) As part of my route preparation for an audax I do an ATM search at the control sites and then Google Streetview them, and also look for on the street stores (eg Coop, McColl, Spar, Premier). At an ATM I just take out £10, which avoids my account balance being shared with an organiser subsequently.
2) Make sure you select the 'cash with receipt' button, and wait for the printed slip. Check it for a location and a time. Place said slip in a plastic bag. Some put it with the Brevet Card, but I think this has risk as you will be pulling that out to present for stamping at manned controls, or to see what the 'info control' question is and maybe write the answer down (as opposed to memorising it). Whatever; put receipts/slips in a secure and consistent place.
3) If you want to buy something anyway (banana(s), milk, water, pasty, sandwiches) don't waste time diverting to / visiting an ATM, just make sure when paying you ask for and get a receipt. Check it for a location and a time. If both aren't shown, ask the checkout person to write the location and/or time on and sign it. One's slightly odd situation, with explanation as necessary, means people will invariably be content to do this.
4) If there's a car park with a ticket machine, this can be an inexpensive option for 'evidence of passage'. Same goes for a railway 'permit to travel'.
5) As a last resort riders go for a photograph (with 'time of photo' enabled) or with the time showing in the background of the shot of a esoteric 'view' at the control village/town eg a street name plate. This is more complicated to present at the finish, and more trouble for the organiser/check in desk - hassle which both you and they would prefer to avoid. This is normally a 'wee hours' problem.
You have then to do nothing more than complete the ride and present the Brevet Card and the receipts/ATM slips to the finish (arrivee) check in desk and they will do the rest. HTH


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## Ian H (7 Jun 2017)

Reminds me of an early Sunday morning stop at the only shop open (on a quick 600, two of us first on the road). I made a small purchase and asked for a receipt. The shop-keeper laughed and said –_a receipt? for a few pence? I don't think so_. I explained why and he responded, after a suitable pause –_but I do have a rubber stamp. _So the cards were completed the old-fashioned way.

Anything with a date and time is fine. In extremis I have asked if someone without proof was with any other riders who could vouch for them.


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## smutchin (7 Jun 2017)

Ian H said:


> Anything with a date and time is fine. In extremis I have asked if someone without proof was with any other riders who could vouch for them.



This tallies with my experience that organisers are very good at taking a common sense approach to this matter. I've yet to meet an organiser who actually wants to make it more difficult for riders to get validated than is absolutely necessary.


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## jiberjaber (7 Jun 2017)

We had an issue on Sunday morning at 06:00, the ATM had no paper, I purchased a car parking ticket, some others went looking in a train station and found a permit to ride machine where you can stick in 10p or so and get a 'receipt' you can use as POP.

It helps the organisers if you stick a number on the receipt and in the brevet box plus highlight the time and date on the receipt.

Plus if you are posting off your brevet and POP evidence, take a photo of them before you post them off... just in case


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## ianrauk (7 Jun 2017)

You are reading far too much into it and stressing for no reason. Just go to garage or shop. Theres always somewhere open. Forget the Lion bar. Buy an ice cream.


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## Ian H (7 Jun 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Forget the Lion bar. Buy an ice cream.


A friend of mine buys soap.


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## Banjo (7 Jun 2017)

I know someone bought a sack of coal for proof of passage.He actually paid for it and arranged to collect it the next day .Still raised an eyebrow at the finish.

Any receipt with a location and time is ideal. If impossible then get a photo of the closed shop or whatever .

Organizers are all audaxers who have been there and got the T shirt.


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## Deanie81084 (7 Jun 2017)

Always prefer 'free' controls to manned or info, don't know why.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Jun 2017)

Deanie81084 said:


> Always prefer 'free' controls to manned or info, don't know why.


Perhaps you haven't been lucky enough to enjoy manned controls combined with food on offer. The control at Pandy (visited twice) on the Gospel Pass 200 ten days ago, organised by Steven Poulton, was outstanding. And the manned and feeding controls at Penzance and Bude on @Ian H 's Kernow and SW 600 (2016) were similarly excellent, and much appreciated at 250km and 375km.
Even without 'free' food, eg at a commercial cafe, don't you think it's nice to meet the organising team and chat? And a manned control means all have to visit so there's the opportunity to socialise a bit and team up for the next section. YMMV
If they could get rid of infos, organisers would (I think it's an Audax UK policy), but often the integrity of the route requires a control along a particular stretch of road, but there's nowhere to get proof of passage.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jun 2017)

Banjo said:


> I know someone bought a sack of coal for proof of passage.He actually paid for it and arranged to collect it the next day .Still raised an eyebrow at the finish.
> 
> Any receipt with a location and time is ideal. If impossible then get a photo of the closed shop or whatever .
> 
> Organizers are all audaxers who have been there and got the T shirt.



Was he taking it to Newcastle?


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## Vegan1 (7 Jun 2017)

Anything that shows proof of passage is valid, so either a receipt with the name of the town or a receipt from a ATM machine. You can at a push even take a selfie which I have done.

Just be sure to number up the receipts though with the circled number in the box on the brevet card with your time and the corresponding number on the receipt. Controllers/Organisers are a good bunch and it makes their lives easier when validating at the end of the ride.

And one last thing, remember to SIGN YOUR NAME on the back of the card.


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## Vegan1 (7 Jun 2017)

Deanie81084 said:


> Always prefer 'free' controls to manned or info, don't know why.



Horses for courses and you would not say that for the multi day events such as PBP and LEL. As an aside the manned controls on the LWL were really good, in fact the first one was superb. A buffet breakfast in a pub with your bike just outside in view.


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## raleighnut (7 Jun 2017)

Vegan1 said:


> Horses for courses and you would not say that for the multi day events such as PBP and LEL. As an aside the manned controls on the LWL were really good, in fact the first one was superb. A buffet breakfast in a pub with your bike just outside in view.


Aye nowt like a Sausage, Bacon, Black puddin' and Egg platter after a ride.


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## Vegan1 (7 Jun 2017)

raleighnut said:


> Aye nowt like a Sausage, Bacon, Black puddin' and Egg platter after a ride.



A load of fat, cholesterol, blood and a menstrual cycle to boot - a full house!


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## raleighnut (7 Jun 2017)

Vegan1 said:


> A load of fat, cholesterol, blood and a menstrual cycle to boot - a full house!


Food of the Gods (or cyclists)

Add a couple of Pork Pies for the saddlebag and you're good for another 100 miles.


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## Vegan1 (7 Jun 2017)

raleighnut said:


> Food of the Gods (or cyclists)
> 
> Add a couple of Pork Pies for the saddlebag and you're good for another 100 miles.



Oh dear, high-jacking this thread for petty antagonising rubbish.

Okay, from an ethical and moral standpoint explain/state the trait present in animals that if present in humans would allow you to slaughter them (humans) too. Not to do so would be a double standard.


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## jiberjaber (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Those pictures made my blood run cold. They look exactly like an expenses submission. I'm notorious for having to repeat these multiple times as I can never get them right.
> I think I may just blow through the infos and free controls. Possibly I'll ask the organiser what he thinks.



Or perhaps you could think of it as a game of orienteering  It's really up to you what you do on the ride, you only need the card if you want to get the ride validated, if you are not interested in that, then you can just breeze through the route and not worry about it... Plenty of club rider groups do this on brevets upto 200km (my observation is that groups of club riders seem to tail off from >200km rides as I think they see them as a bit too long a ride.. )

It's not an exam filling in a brevet, I am sure there are some cards that org's get that take a while to decipher... this one was mostly filled in over 24 hours after the event hence why it looks so pretty, I am sure I could dig out a more realistic example given some time to look through them


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## Banjo (8 Jun 2017)

Your over thinking it . Buy something in a shop stick the receipt in the bag with your card, hand bag in at the finish. 

The alternative is every control would have to be manned for several hours by some poor sod with a rubber stamp ,events (especially smaller ones) would be cancelled due to lack of volunteers or controls would have to be staffed by people getting paid and costs would spiral.


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## Ian H (8 Jun 2017)

Back to basics: AUK events are about riding a distance within time limits. Nothing else. The completed brevet card is simply to prove you've done it.


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## Ian H (8 Jun 2017)

Ideally, controls should be about the right distance apart so they are natural refreshment stops. Info controls, if required (I've got rid of them on all my events) should be easy to see and memorise.


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## Ajax Bay (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> if any of the infos is not immediately easy to find and answer, . . . I will drop any attempt at playing along with the proof-of-passage gathering. Cryptic information controls are a bugbear of mine


Know (ie have read and remembered) the 'info control' question before you get there.
Do your best to identify the answer the organiser expects.
Check what you think the answer is chimes with others who are with you.
Still unsure?
Check with other riders later in the ride (eg chatting at a control or when you pass them / they pass you, or even at the finish (hurrah!)) what they think the answer is.
Accidentally oversee the Brevet Card of the rider in front of you at the arrivee to see what she's written down.


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## Sea of vapours (8 Jun 2017)

Banjo said:


> The alternative is every control would have to be manned for several hours by some poor sod with a rubber stamp ,events (especially smaller ones) would be cancelled due to lack of volunteers or controls would have to be staffed by people getting paid and costs would spiral.



And another alternative is validate based on gps tracklogs, or at least _allow _validation by such. This whole free control thing is a considerable part of what keeps me doing solely diy by gps audaxes.


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## jay clock (8 Jun 2017)

All this reminds me why Audax is not for me


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## Ian H (8 Jun 2017)

Don't worry. Cycling's a broad church.


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## Vegan1 (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> @Ajax Bay Asking others for the answers used to be my policy.* But after my last info control debacle I reached my limit. I thought "I don't even *_*care *_* about validating my ride, I'm only doing this because everyone else is, and you're making it difficult for me*". So I decided that the next control that presents the least obstacle to me enjoying my cycling will result in the brevet card going in the next available bin.
> 
> Like @Sea of vapours I'd like it if audaxes allowed validation based on GPS tracklogs. However I'm sure that GPX validation would present big technical challenges for an organisation run by volunteers, so I'm not really that fussed.
> 
> ...



I do feel your pain here, there have been some of the longer rides (400-600km) that when I've looked at the ride details and seen something like 5-6 info controls to account for as well as the stresses and strains that come from doing a long event - bollox to that.


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## smutchin (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'll go along and try to play along with the validation stuff out of politeness, but if any of the infos is not immediately easy to find and answer, or if I have any problem at all with getting a receipt I will drop any attempt at playing along with the proof-of-passage gathering. Cryptic information controls are a bugbear of mine that I've ranted about in the past. (Riding up and down a big hill in search of a non-existent postbox).



My 200 that I'm organising in September has three info controls. They all have exactly the same question - I'm rather proud of that.

(Each has a different answer, of course. And the answer will be immediately apparent as you ride past - no stopping and hunting for tiny signs etc.)


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## smutchin (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Like @Sea of vapours I'd like it if audaxes allowed validation based on GPS tracklogs. However I'm sure that GPX validation would present big technical challenges for an organisation run by volunteers, so I'm not really that fussed.



The biggest challenge would be extracting the tracks from every rider's GPS device in a compatible format, then uploading them to the AUK validation app. It would be a time-consuming process, to say the least.


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## smutchin (8 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> is it in Kent? I might put it on my to do list.



Yep. And there's beer at the finish too!

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/17-304/
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/17-305/


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## PpPete (8 Jun 2017)

Submitting via a third party site is probably a non-starter.
As has been amply demonstrated with route planning sites - the algorithms can get changed with no notice, rendering the output next to useless.

OTH we've also shown with our own software used to validate DIYs by GPS (+ more recently Perms too) that there are nearly as many ways to 'break the system' as there are riders wanting to use it.

Still - we've learned some valuable lessons which will feed into the upcoming "system refresh".
GPS validation of calendar events is still somewhere over the horizon though. After all we're still seeing the tail-end of the "send two C5 SAEs" with your cheques as a means of entry to events.


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## Sea of vapours (8 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> The biggest challenge would be extracting the tracks from every rider's GPS device in a compatible format, then uploading them to the AUK validation app. It would be a time-consuming process, to say the least.



I'd not envisaged that being done at the arrivee. I'd also not envisaged that everyone would use gps proof of passage (though clearly there is a distinct possibility of that becoming the norm). In fact, I wasn't even suggesting that it should happen since I'm perfectly happy doing DIY by GPS and really wouldn't seek to change an existing, functional system for my (minor) benefit. 

If gps were to be allowed for calendar event validation, however, the most practical way of doing it could well be to require those people choosing that option to submit gpx files post event, as per DIY by GPS. If that's more work than validating brevet cards - and I accept that it probably is - a small premium could be charged for using that method rather than using a physical brevet card. I'd personally be happy to pay a couple of pounds in order to avoid the need to stop and buy things I don't want, fiddle with receipts, take out cash I don't need, and carry a lock when I don't want to. (I have no issue with info controls so long as they're 'good' ones, not hidden or absent.) 



PpPete said:


> Still - we've learned some valuable lessons which will feed into the upcoming "system refresh".



Uh oh - and there I was thinking that it currently works pretty well in the most recent iteration, though larger tracklog file size allowance would be nice ;-)


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## Donger (8 Jun 2017)

If the event has instant validation (i.e you don't have to wait for your brevet card to be approved and posted back to you), then I'd be amazed if a photo of you at the control didn't satisfy the organisers. I usually take a camera, so that's what I'd do.


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## Aravis (9 Jun 2017)

When I did my most recent Audax - on a very wet day - I was scrupulously careful with my record keeping and ensuring that everything was protected against the elements. At the finish I produced a perfect set of documents, receipts and all.

The organiser's first reaction - almost certainly intended to be humorous but somewhat missing the mark - was to question how I'd managed to achieve this.


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2017)

I didn't have any problems with rain on my first ever audax, which was on a warm, dry day. However, I'd been anticipating somewhat different conditions in early March so was wearing a warm winter jersey which made me sweat rather a lot. And I didn't pick up a plastic bag to put my brevet card in, so it was just loose in my jersey pocket...

By the time I got to the finish, the card had mostly disintegrated. Fortunately, the organiser took pity on me and validated my ride anyway.


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## PpPete (9 Jun 2017)

I wonder how much outcry there might be from the _anciens_ if we issued AUK members with a permanent plastic ID card with QR code - to be scanned with a smart phone by controllers or just at start/finish when any proofs of passage such as receipts/ATM balance slips/ info questions have been checked.
Non-members or those who forget cards could still use old-fashioned cards, but their validation might not be as swift.

Once the issues outlined above have been addressed, post-event upload of gpx tracklog seems a good alternative to the dreaded "postal finishes" where you have to mail the organisers your soggy card and a pile of illegible receipts.


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## youngoldbloke (9 Jun 2017)

I'd resist any system that uses gpx validation. I don't use such devices. I like using a route sheet, and a _map - _anyone remember those?


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2017)

PpPete said:


> permanent plastic ID card with QR code



Hmmm, I like it. There's definitely something in that idea!

It occurred to me that you could use a barcode system like that used by parkrun, but I just had a look at it and it's probably prohibitively expensive for individual AUK organisers (mainly the cost of the software licence rather than the hardware) - might be worth considering for big events like LEL though.
https://www.ers-online.co.uk/p3256/ers-racetime-barcode-based-race-timing-solution


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## Sea of vapours (9 Jun 2017)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'd resist any system that uses gpx validation. I don't use such devices.



What, you'd resist it as an _option_? I'd certainly agree that mandating the use of a gps would be a thoroughly unreasonable move (not to mention massively improbable in the medium term at least), but surely you'd not object to other people opting for that mechanism?


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Hmmm, I like it. There's definitely something in that idea!
> 
> It occurred to me that you could use a barcode system like that used by parkrun, but I just had a look at it and it's probably prohibitively expensive for individual AUK organisers (mainly the cost of the software licence rather than the hardware) - might be worth considering for big events like LEL though.
> https://www.ers-online.co.uk/p3256/ers-racetime-barcode-based-race-timing-solution



LEL already has a bar code scanning setup ready this time round or have you seen something I haven't ?


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> LEL already has a bar code scanning setup ready this time round or have you seen something I haven't ?



No, I didn't know that.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

Ian H said:


> Ideally, controls should be about the right distance apart so they are natural refreshment stops. Info controls, if required (I've got rid of them on all my events) should be easy to see and memorise.


Wouldn't any such info control be worthless now Street View and Streetside exists?


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Wouldn't any such info control be worthless now Street View and Streetside exists?



You've got to be pragmatic. It's really not worth making _all_ the riders jump through hoops for the sake of preventing the one or two who might be inclined to take short cuts. The likely effect would be to put people off entering your rides in future (people such as @Dogtrousers, for example).


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## Sea of vapours (9 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Wouldn't any such info control be worthless now Street View and Streetside exists?



All of the various proofs of passage, other than a manned control with a rubber stamp applied to your brevet card, are not exactly difficult to cheat on (including gpx tracks), but what's the point? The old axiom of 'you are only cheating yourself' is pretty applicable here.


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## iandg (9 Jun 2017)

Make sure the receipt has the date, time and location on it. In the Gollden Road Standing Stones I have a control at Tarbert after 37miles. There's only 2 shops open at 8am, I visit them before hand and tell them cyclists will be asking for receipts,I also accept selfies next to the ferry terminal or the hardware store. At my last event someone handed me a receipt from the hotel hebrides and wrote on it 'full Scottish Breakfast' - I didn't think it was open to non residents that early and wasn't expecting that one - a demonstration of what's great about audax.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> You've got to be pragmatic. It's really not worth making _all_ the riders jump through hoops for the sake of preventing the one or two who might be inclined to take short cuts. The likely effect would be to put people off entering your rides in future (people such as @Dogtrousers, for example).


But if you're going to be pragmatic, you'd just rely on the manned and free controls. Either it's worth putting a proper control there or it's not. Maybe Audax should have controls where a stamp is left on a monument like Norwich Alleycat IIRC.


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Either it's worth putting a proper control there or it's not.



An info control _is_ a proper control.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

Sea of vapours said:


> All of the various proofs of passage, other than a manned control with a rubber stamp applied to your brevet card, are not exactly difficult to cheat on (including gpx tracks), but what's the point? The old axiom of 'you are only cheating yourself' is pretty applicable here.


I thought some audaxes qualified you to ride others, but I've not done many and don't really understand the point of it, so I could be wrong.


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## iandg (9 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Well, you don't know the questions until the start. So theoretically I suppose you could pick up your brevet card, ride off to a quiet place with your tablet, find the answers, and then get a lift to the first manned control to get your card stamped. Yes, you could do that. But if you're driving to the manned controls, then driving to the info controls (invisible on streetview and annoyingly invisible to riders too) wouldn't be much of a stretch.
> 
> So I wouldn't go as far as to say _worthless_.



Another thing I did in the GRSS is go to a village sign and wrap 2 bands of coloured insulation tape around a village sign post - the question 'what colour tape is wrapped around the Scadabay village sign' - not going to get that from Google Street View and I can put a different colour tape on each year.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> What's not "proper" about a control that's clearly visible from the road?


Nothing is verified by it if you can fill out the box by looking it up on your phone.



> Although the I've seen something like the idea you suggest used. The Ditchling Devil last year had banners at the tops of the Beacon and Devil's Dyke with codes written on them ("OYTT" and "GOTG" IIRC!)


Good to know. I'd not read of that before.


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## Vegan1 (9 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> I thought some audaxes qualified you to ride others, but I've not done many and don't really understand the point of it, so I could be wrong.



The only objective for an someone doing an audax is to get round. You get no prize, monetary or otherwise so the whole argument regarding info controls, streetview and the like is pointless.


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## iandg (9 Jun 2017)

...another benefit of open controls is that if a rider buys something from a local shop to get a receipt they are giving something to the businesses who are supporting your event. I've left stamps at shops and had riders just get a stamp and leave - make them get a receipt and the shop benefits from your event and is more willing to say 'yes' the following year.


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## mjr (10 Jun 2017)

Vegan1 said:


> The only objective for an someone doing an audax is to get round. You get no prize, monetary or otherwise so the whole argument regarding info controls, streetview and the like is pointless.


So the awards and badges and so on are all fictional?


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## TheDoctor (10 Jun 2017)

Vegan1 said:


> The only objective for an someone doing an audax is to get round. You get no prize, monetary or otherwise so the whole argument regarding info controls, streetview and the like is pointless.


Erm...no. I'm not an audaxer, and even I know that's wrong.
PBP, frinstance, you need to have ridden qualifying Audaxes.


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## Vegan1 (10 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> So the awards and badges and so on are all fictional?



Lol, if anyone wants to cheat thier way to a little badge that gives the respective distance - be my guest.


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## mjr (10 Jun 2017)

Vegan1 said:


> Lol, if anyone wants to cheat thier way to a little badge that gives the respective distance - be my guest.


We live in a world where people risk their health taking performance enhancing drugs for sportive rides. I guess at least audax doesn't encourage that so much.


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## Vegan1 (10 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> We live in a world where people risk their health taking performance enhancing drugs for sportive rides. I guess at least audax doesn't encourage that so much.



What?


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## Banjo (11 Jun 2017)

Common sense is applied and controls are there to enable riders to prove they have done the route but without needing the level of proof required to convict a murderer for example.


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## Nuncio (11 Jun 2017)

Shame. 
- I have an alibi for my wife's murder. That brevet card shows that at the time of her murder in Carmarthen, I was recording the distance on the signpost to Llanarthne at Porthyrhyd as 3 miles.
- It's true sarge, I'll take the cuffs off


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## Banjo (12 Jun 2017)

Nuncio said:


> Shame.
> - I have an alibi for my wife's murder. That brevet card shows that at the time of her murder in Carmarthen, I was recording the distance on the signpost to Llanarthne at Porthyrhyd as 3 miles.
> - It's true sarge, I'll take the cuffs off


Bit suspicious that you didn't go in the pub for a pint though.....


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## Siclo (30 Jun 2017)

wicker man said:


> Another thing I did in the GRSS is go to a village sign and wrap 2 bands of coloured insulation tape around a village sign post - the question 'what colour tape is wrapped around the Scadabay village sign' - not going to get that from Google Street View and I can put a different colour tape on each year.



I've been looking at this ride since you started @wicker man but please have a care for those of us who don't see colours properly


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## mjr (30 Jun 2017)

Siclo said:


> I've been looking at this ride since you started @wicker man but please have a care for those of us who don't see colours properly


Phone apps (which is my current method, not that it stops some people on here insisting pink is purple or whatever it was), camera, ask someone, or simply note what it could be? There's not really a perfect solution to that.


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## Siclo (30 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Phone apps (which is my current method, not that it stops some people on here insisting pink is purple or whatever it was), camera, ask someone, or simply note what it could be? There's not really a perfect solution to that.



The perfect solution is don't use info's that rely on colour, particularly 'What colour is the barn at the far end end of the field on the left of the T junction?' when its a foggy day and vis is down to 20 metres and the barn is 200 metres away, but yes generally I take photo's of info's to avoid messing about with brevet cards and pencils at the roadside.


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> My 200 that I'm organising in September has three info controls. They all have exactly the same question - I'm rather proud of that.
> (Each has a different answer, of course. And the answer will be immediately apparent as you ride past - no stopping and hunting for tiny signs etc.)



I've subsequently tweaked the route slightly which has meant changing the location of one of the info controls. But guess what... the new info control has exactly the same question! Again, the answer will be obvious as you ride past without stopping. I'm going to have to be more inventive if I run the event again next year.

I aspire to getting rid of info controls altogether but it's difficult to do that in Kent. I find when devising routes that the 'shortest' distance would often entail using roads that no sane person would want to ride, so you have to add infos to ensure riders take the more scenic option as intended. By contrast, if you go to Scotland, the shortest route is often the _only_ route, so it's easier to keep the number of controls down.


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## smutchin (30 Jun 2017)

Siclo said:


> The perfect solution is don't use info's that rely on colour



One of the info control questions on a 600 I did was the colour of the front door on a house near a particular junction. Unfortunately, what the organiser had failed to consider was that it was an unlit country lane and most riders would be passing through that spot in the middle of the night...


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## mjr (30 Jun 2017)

Siclo said:


> The perfect solution is don't use info's that rely on colour, particularly 'What colour is the barn at the far end end of the field on the left of the T junction?' when its a foggy day and vis is down to 20 metres and the barn is 200 metres away, but yes generally I take photo's of info's to avoid messing about with brevet cards and pencils at the roadside.


Yeah, that's a perfect solution for those of who have problems with colour, but all info controls cause problems for someone, don't they? The common ones where you have to read things off signs can make things hard for dyslexics (as well as usually being trivial to discover at the start), while ones inside a gate can frustrate the less agile rider.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (28 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I remember once standing in a gateway with a group of other puzzled cyclists, looking at a gate asking each other ... "well, what do _you_ think it's made of?"


Unobtainium


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Oct 2017)

The cycle gate scandal


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## Big T (8 Nov 2017)

I like free controls. The problem with a designated control at a cafe, is that it's usually packed by the time you get there and it takes ages to get served with your food. I know it's not a race, but I don't want to spend 45 mins waiting for and eating food in a cafe. I've ridden audaxes where there was a free control in a small town and you could spread yourselves between the 3 or 4 cafes in the town, or, if you wanted to, just get a balance enquiriy from a cash machine and carry on. Not everyone wants 2 cafes in a 100k audax, or 3 or 4 in a 200k.

Info controls involving mileages on signposts are pretty unambiguous, as are name the pub in a village (provided there's only one). Ambiguous ones I've come across include naming the burglar alarm on a house (there were several houses and several alarms), name the supermarket on the left as you pass through the town (there was a Lidl, a Tesco and a Morrisons with half a mile).


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Nov 2017)

Salamander


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## jefmcg (9 Nov 2017)

smutchin said:


> One of the info control questions on a 600 I did was the colour of the front door on a house near a particular junction. Unfortunately, what the organiser had failed to consider was that it was an unlit country lane and most riders would be passing through that spot in the middle of the night...


Was that WCW? Because the problem was slightly worse - you couldn't have shone your light on the door to see the colour, because it had a window in it! I wonder how many riders shone a light thru their front door?


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## mjr (9 Nov 2017)

Marmion said:


> Salamander


Yes, it's back with series 2, even though it's about 5 years since series 1 - does it feature an Audax? Will the BBC be showing it like the first one?


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Was that WCW?



It was indeed. And yes, some people were shining their lights in through the window when I got there.


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