# Still looking for that Cross Bike ... Jake the Snake?



## Zippy (3 Sep 2010)

I think I'm nearer finding that new bike that I really need. I got swept away in that initial MTB boom back in the day and I've been riding a Specialised Hard Rock with slicks ever since, but now I am getting to that seasoned time in my life it is starting to feel like less of a "proper" bike!

My lbs doesn't do Specialised so the Spec' Cross is out unless I want to travel further out. Not really happy that there are no braze-ons for mudguards on this.

They suggested Kona for a cross bike - Jake the Snake - silly name (but so is Hard Rock I suppose). Good reviews and it does have braze ons for mudguards so could be a better bet.

Does anyone have one and like it? Does anyone have one and hate it? I'd welcome your feedback.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Sep 2010)

how about one of these? I've test ridden the '09 & '10 models. Lovely.


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## Zippy (3 Sep 2010)

My searches keep coming back to this machine, but I can't find one in Cornwall to try out in my size let alone buy one. It is very nice.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Sep 2010)

Well if you will live in Cornwall! Paignton and Exeter are the nearest dealers to you which is probably too far for comfort.


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## lpjr (3 Sep 2010)

Hello. On your original post I was able to recommend the Orbea Mud. Link on that post. Did 58 miles on it the other day. Loved it. You may get a deal on them now as the 2011 models have come out which look great but are leaving your price range.
Kona Jake was number one on my short list. I only did not get it as the listed local dealer had stop stocking Kona. They did have a Kona major Jake left in stock reduced from £1595 to £1100 but not my frame size. But it looked good. I think it was a 2007 model.
If you get a cyclocross you will have to enter a cyclocross race. They seem a good laugh. In my 1st race in 2 weeks time.


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## u9ge (3 Sep 2010)

Roadrat?


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## Zippy (3 Sep 2010)

Nearest Croix de Fer is a 2011 model in Taunton for £1100. Was really hoping for a 2010 model for that bit cheaper and Taunton is a bit of a drive.

My local stockist is calling me to a Specialised Tricross. I'm kind of tempted and its just inside the upper limit of the C2W we have of £1K. I think I'm going to be drawn to what's available really. Why do I think it is the poor relation of the two?


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## Jezston (3 Sep 2010)

u9ge said:


> Roadrat?



The road rat is just a frame. There is a shop that did make a hub geared bike out of it, but that's a special build with several months wait, and I don't know if view still do it and for under a grand.


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## Matty (3 Sep 2010)

Jezston said:


> The road rat is just a frame. There is a shop that did make a hub geared bike out of it, but that's a special build with several months wait, and I don't know if view still do it and for under a grand.



Well kind of, Cotic offer ready built single speed or hub gear or normal gear Roadrats. Cyclo-cross would be a custom build though.


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## mooseracer (3 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> My searches keep coming back to this machine, but I can't find one in Cornwall to try out in my size let alone buy one. It is very nice.



Who's your LBS? What do BikeChain in 'druth stock these days?


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> Nearest Croix de Fer is a 2011 model in Taunton for £1100. Was really hoping for a 2010 model for that bit cheaper and Taunton is a bit of a drive.
> 
> My local stockist is calling me to a Specialised Tricross. I'm kind of tempted and its just inside the upper limit of the C2W we have of £1K. I think I'm going to be drawn to what's available really. Why do I think it is the poor relation of the two?



nothing wrong with a tricross, but a kona or a genesis are a little less common.


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## downfader (4 Sep 2010)

I have a Kona Jake that I've upgraded. The top model has a special alloy frame that absorbs the road a little better than the 7005 alloy on the Jake and Snake.

The Snake is close in spec and feel to the Specialized Tricross. 

I will say that if you've never ridden canti brakes then its preferable to make sure you try them. They dont offer quite the stopping power Vs, callipers or discs do. Cantis can be swapped out for miniVs I'm told, I have a set but I've yet to install them and test it out.


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## Zippy (5 Sep 2010)

Well yesterday i had a bit of a drive round the shops and i found a Specialised Tricross in Truro and a Kona Jake the Snake at the Bike Chain in Redruth. 

Just a glance at the Jake the Snake told me the components are higher spec and quality compared to the Tricross. 

The store guy told me Kona offers a lifetime warranty whereas Specialised do not. The Tricross comes with cheap and nasty plaggy flat pedals which I would want to swap out for SPDs (and the guy in Truro said he could dop this for £30); the Kona comes ready fitted.

So the Tricross comes at £850, but with extra cost of SPDs, compared to the Kona at £1000 with better specs. I calculate the extra £100 would be worthwhile for the array od components I would be getting.

I took my wife along, who does not cycle and hates the smell of cycle shops (new rubber and testosterone), who says the Kona is a "prettier bike, 'cos its blue" and looks more like the bikes she remembers; I thnk she means the tubing is less chunky.

It looks like I'm going for the JtheS with the Tricross as a close second.


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## Jezston (5 Sep 2010)

Apart from the now redundant 'rules' aspects of cantilevers, are there any advantages to such brakes?


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## Matty (5 Sep 2010)

Kona make excellent bikes in my view, doubt you'll be disappointed.


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## potsy (5 Sep 2010)

Quite fancy a 'cross bike as my next purchase,Tri-cross was high up my wishlist but looking at the 2011 model it now comes in at £1000 for the Sport and it still doesn't have disc brakes.
Croix de Fer now top of the list.


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## Zippy (5 Sep 2010)

potsy said:


> Quite fancy a 'cross bike as my next purchase,Tri-cross was high up my wishlist but looking at the 2011 model it now comes in at £1000 for the Sport and it still doesn't have disc brakes.
> Croix de Fer now top of the list.



I've never tried disc brakes and have always been happy with canti's.


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## potsy (5 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I've never tried disc brakes and have always been happy with canti's.



Me neither Zippy,but as this would be my winter commuter/wet weather bike then the discs sound like a good idea.
still haven't decided if I am getting another bike yet,it's just wishful thinking at the minute.
Have a perfectly good Trek hybrid that I should be using this winter instead.


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## Moodyman (5 Sep 2010)

Zippy - rims to discs is like cassette to CD.

Do it man.


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## Zippy (5 Sep 2010)

> Zippy - rims to discs is like cassette to CD.
> 
> Do it man.



I hear you Moodyman, but the Kona Jake the Snake doesn't come with disc brakes. The Tricross does have disc brakes but it also comes with other more inferior parts compared to the Kona; particularly 501 chainset and the wheels on the Kona look a better spec.


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## nich (5 Sep 2010)

u9ge said:


> Roadrat?



I got one of these a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely awesome. I went for the drop bar / disc / single-speed option. Bring on winter, there's nothing this bike can't handle! 

Bleh to non-discs in the wet. I can't be doing with cleaning the black goo off the rims every time it pours down, plus I really would like to be able to stop. The single-speed thing is interesting, it seems quite easy on the hills compared to my road bike, and is really rather addictive, plus very easy to clean and no sorting out gears a couple of a times a week. 

It's a steel frame, so that adds to the weight, but it does soak up the bumps better than my road bike. 

I've also found the guys at Cotic smashing to deal with - only took a week to build up and get it delivered! 

Overall, thoroughly recommended


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## Zippy (5 Sep 2010)

I honestly don't get this - I've always been able to stop with rim brakes so well that the wheels lock up and I have to let the brake out again. Any more efficient and I'd flip the bike! quite happy with cantis.


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## MacB (5 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I honestly don't get this - I've always been able to stop with rim brakes so well that the wheels lock up and I have to let the brake out again. Any more efficient and I'd flip the bike! quite happy with cantis.



there are cantis and there are cantis, setup is important as well, some really good info on the CTC forum about it, explains the Sheldon stuff in pictures. I've set up Tektro CR520's and they worked as well as my v-brakes. I tried to setup some old cantis on a bike I got from the tip and just couldn't get them to anything like the same standard. Bunged some v's on and it was easy to set up. 

Having had a play around now I'm sold on the idea of mechanical disc brakes. Wheel changes are easier and I hate the thought of grinding away my expensive rims with braking. also pads are meant to last a lot longer, or at least for the sort of road/commuting riding that I do.


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## Brandane (5 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I honestly don't get this - I've always been able to stop with rim brakes so well that the wheels lock up and I have to let the brake out again. Any more efficient and I'd flip the bike! quite happy with cantis.



Me too. I have a Tricross triple with canti brakes. The standard pads weren't so good and sounded as if they were grinding the rim away whenever you braked. Also produced a lot of black "goo" in the wet. All was sorted with 2 sets of Kool-Stop dual compound pads. They now stop the bike as good as the hydraulic discs on my mountain bike do! Also much kinder on the rims, and no black gunk.


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## Zippy (6 Sep 2010)

I think I am sold on the idea of the Kona Jake the Snake - but this has no disc brakes. Can they be fitted?

The Tricross does have disc brakes but the other components (wheels, chainset etc) are not as good as the Kona.

I could do with a cross of both bikes!


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## g00se (6 Sep 2010)

Fitting discs would be difficult but not impossible.

You would need to replace wheel hubs and find discs that would work with the amount of pull from your brake levers (most discs are designed for mountain bikes and expect the distance pull of v-brake levers rather than cantis).

You'll also need to fit mounting lugs to the frame and forks. So if these moutings aren't already there, you'll probably need to front forks with disc compatible ones and have rear lugs braised/welded on.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Sep 2010)

retro fitting discs to a bike not designed to have them is probably more hassle than it is worth unless you can do necessary brazing/welding yourself.

Avid BB7 Road disc brakes work fine with road/cross drop bar levers and tecktro make drop bar levers compatible with v brakes should you want to go down that route.


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## Stephenite (6 Sep 2010)

Hey Zip and co

There's a little thread here you might find interesting

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/converting-kona-jake-the-snake-to-disc

I've often thought i'd like disc brakes on my 'Snake but yet to look into it properly.

Since i tightened up the brakes it came with, and replaced the brake pads with longer MTB pads i had lying around, the bike brakes very well.

Don't have much experience with disc brakes, myself. I put some on my lightweight hardtail (which prob. increased the weight a bit) but haven't used it much since i bought the 'Snake.


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## potsy (6 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I think I am sold on the idea of the Kona Jake the Snake - but this has no disc brakes. Can they be fitted?
> 
> *The Tricross does have disc brakes* but the other components (wheels, chainset etc) are not as good as the Kona.
> 
> I could do with a cross of both bikes!



Which Tricross has disc brakes Zippy? Seen the specs for the 'sport' and it has normal ones,only difference I can see is better wheels on the 2011 version but at £1000 it should have more IMO.
http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/product/specializedtricrosssportracingbike2011.aspx?&id=14791


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## Zippy (6 Sep 2010)

potsy said:


> Which Tricross has disc brakes Zippy? Seen the specs for the 'sport' and it has normal ones,http://www.leisurela....aspx?&id=14791



To my embarrasment Potsy - none of them. they must have been on another frame while I was browsing the store and got them welded onto the wrong bike in my memory. Sorry for confusion.

As it happens, the LBS got back to say they don't have the Tricross in my size (49cm).

The other LBS called to say they have the Kona Jake the Snake in 47cm - *but is that going to be too short a reach I wonder? *I am 5'3" tall and 29" inside leg. They say their supplier has a 47cm but my reservation is that the reach is going to be too short.


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## marcw (6 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> To my embarrasment Potsy - none of them. they must have been on another frame while I was browsing the store and got them welded onto the wrong bike in my memory. Sorry for confusion.
> 
> As it happens, the LBS got back to say they don't have the Tricross in my size (49cm).
> 
> The other LBS called to say they have the Kona Jake the Snake in 47cm - *but is that going to be too short a reach I wonder? *I am 5'3" tall and 29" inside leg. They say their supplier has a 47cm but my reservation is that the reach is going to be too short.



the smallest Croix de Fer is 52cm so too big. I'm 5"5.5 with 28 inside leg and could only just get over the cross bar. I've ordered a On One Pompetamine Versa instead, 8 speed Alfine hub and disk brakes. Smallest they do is 50cm. Can't tell you what it's like as I haven't got it yet.
Any rim brakes will wear down your rims quickly, if commuting. Constant stop start and grit on the Rims, not so bad if you only ride in the dry though. Having your braking surface submerged in oily puddles isn't much help either.


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## Zippy (7 Sep 2010)

I'm running out of enthusiasm now - the two cycles I was looking forward to are no longer available - Specialised Tricross and a Kona Jake the Snake. There is a 47cm still available but the nice lady at Kona said it would be too small for me (5'3" with inside leg 29").

I guess it'll have to be a 2011 model for another £100. I have to move fast though as the NHS in my end are finishing the Cycle to Work scheme at the end of this month!


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## ammwhite (7 Sep 2010)

Does it have to be a proper cyclo-cross bike, or are you just looking for a sturdy drop bar bike for commuting etc?

If the latter, what about a Kona Honky Inc? 

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/honky-inc-2010-road-bike-ec021790

Steel frame drop bar bike from Kona, with disc brakes, Shimano 105, and 28C tyres ... I think this would be a great winter bike/commuter. I quite fancy one myself for the winter, but I've just bought a new road bike, so it'll have to wait


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## Lerxt (7 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I'm running out of enthusiasm now - the two cycles I was looking forward to are no longer available - Specialised Tricross and a Kona Jake the Snake. There is a 47cm still available but the nice lady at Kona said it would be too small for me (5'3" with inside leg 29").
> 
> I guess it'll have to be a 2011 model for another £100. I have to move fast though as the NHS in my end are finishing the Cycle to Work scheme at the end of this month!



I've just ordered a 2011 Genesis Day One Alfine from my lbs on my CTW scheme. It comes with disks, afline 8 speed gears for just under a grand:

http://road.cc/conte...1-bikes-icebike

I'm expecting delivery soon. Not sure about whether Genesis will do the size you're after for 2011. 

Cheers, 

L.


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## marcw (7 Sep 2010)

Lerxt said:


> I've just ordered a 2011 Genesis Day One Alfine from my lbs on my CTW scheme. It comes with disks, afline 8 speed gears for just under a grand:
> 
> http://road.cc/conte...1-bikes-icebike
> 
> ...



Genesis have no plans to make anything smaller than a 52, I phoned them 2 weeks ago. The Day One Alfine looks nice, although it's £200 more expensive than the similarly specced Pompetamine Versa. The Day One is prettier though, the On One logos are horrible.


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## g00se (7 Sep 2010)

Hi,

The 2011 UK prices come out at the Kona launch this weekend. It might be tight for getting one in for the end of September though. The cross bikes are some of the first they ship due to the start of the cross season, but whether they'll be in by the end of September I don't know.

When I got my Kona on cyclescheme, there was a hold up with my company paying the invoice. However, the LBS held the bike in the shop for me. It was in August so stocks were low - they said it was the last Dew Plus at the warehouse in my size in the country.

One thing to think about though, if you order the voucher in September, you can take a little while to spend it - so you could wait until next week when the 2011 prices are out and order the bike through the local shop. The processing of the voucher application can take a few weeks so by the time it's all done and dusted, a 2011 Jake the Snake could be ready. the only thing is to try and find somewhere with a 49cm in stock for you to try out.

Something else to consider, if you are sure the size is right and have found one to try out - and that's mail order. This London Kona dealer has a good reputation and it looks like they have a 49cm JtS in stock:

http://www.chamberlainecycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m7b6s23p1435

It has a £100 discount but a lot of places will only sell cyclescheme bikes at RRP (they seem to do cyclescheme there too).

This time of year is a cr@p time to order bikes on cyclescheme....

Finally, saw this on another thread - another option?

http://www.marin.co.uk/2010/bikepage.php?ModNo=10LO

http://www.marin.co.uk/2010/bikepage.php?ModNo=10TO#


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## Zippy (7 Sep 2010)

Can anyone comment on the Kona Honky - good or bad? It seems to be what I want - a road type bike which is tough enough for dirt trails and rubbish commuting roads, 501 components and disc brakes. I quite like the idea it is a steel frame as well.

Have had the lbs order one today.


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## RRCC (7 Sep 2010)

Seeing your size how about an Islabikes Luath 700. A cross bike with mudguard and rack fittings, no disks but plenty left for extras.


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## Zippy (7 Sep 2010)

RRCC said:


> Seeing your size how about an Islabikes Luath 700. A cross bike with mudguard and rack fittings, no disks but plenty left for extras.



I'm not that blummin' small!


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## g00se (7 Sep 2010)

The Honky Tonk or the Honky Inc?

(sorry - obvious from the spec you mean the Inc)


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## g00se (7 Sep 2010)

Oooh - the 2011 Honky Inc looks nice.


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## potsy (7 Sep 2010)

g00se said:


> Oooh - the 2011 Honky Inc looks nice.



Gorgeous machine,only the fact it has a 39/50 chainrings puts me off a bit.


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## ammwhite (7 Sep 2010)

potsy said:


> Gorgeous machine,only the fact it has a 39/50 chainrings puts me off a bit.



That's interesting ... I wonder why they changed it, as the 2010 bike had a more standard compact 34/50 setup.

I actually prefer the looks of the 2010 model too ... the new one has gone all retro!


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## MacB (7 Sep 2010)

ammwhite said:


> That's interesting ... I wonder why they changed it, as the 2010 bike had a more standard compact 34/50 setup.
> 
> I actually prefer the looks of the 2010 model too ... the new one has gone all retro!



Agreed, that 2011 model seems to have had a whack with the ugly stick, there are still some 2010 models around, I nearly purchased one.

But be warned, despite all the write ups indicating the spec includes Avid BB7's this is not the case on later production.


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## MacB (7 Sep 2010)

Another thing on the Honky Inc, I actually contacted them re this bike as I couldn't find all the details I needed. I believe the rear spacing, certainly on the 2010 model, is 130mm. If you fancy upgrading the wheelset this makes things very hard as there's still limited choice in 130mm disc brake hubs. Though, as the frame is steel, springing it out to 135mm shouldn't be too hard.


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## Zippy (8 Sep 2010)

I am now leaning towards the Kona Honky inc. as it has the longer top tube than a cross bike of equivalent size and so a less upright position against headwind. It also has disc brakes which have been recommended on here.

My lbs tell me it also robust and "playful" enough to take on forest trails and cider tracks so it sounds about right to me.

I prefer a closer road ratio in gearing and any off road stuff is going to be flat or unulating - no MTB stuff as I have my Specialised Hard Rock for those days.

It would be good to hear from Kona Honky inc owners for a bit of feedback.


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## lpjr (8 Sep 2010)

Just to add another bike to the mix. I was looking at the Uncle John's Planet X cyclocross bike. Uncle John . It gets a good write up Review Bike Radar.. Something I will consider next year. You would have to order over the internet but appear to have a good service team.


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## Zippy (11 Sep 2010)

I went out today and bought a 49cm Kona Honky Inc. I fancied the conventional steel frame and I think my Mum would have approved (she ddn't approve back in the day when I took my birthday money and spent it on a Raleigh Chopper!). Nowhere near as chunky as I thought a steel frame bike would be.

Brake lever gears will take some getting used to as I have used MTB gripshift for years. Geometry and balance completely different to my Spec' Hard Rock MTB commuter. First time on road is gonna be fun!

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2010)

Zippy said:


> I went out today and bought a 49cm Kona Honky Inc. I fancied the conventional steel frame and I think my Mum would have approved (she ddn't approve back in the day when I took my birthday money and spent it on a Raleigh Chopper!). Nowhere near as chunky as I thought a steel frame bike would be.
> 
> Brake lever gears will take some getting used to as I have used MTB gripshift for years. Geometry and balance completely different to my Spec' Hard Rock MTB commuter. First time on road is gonna be fun!



Lovely bike.

Lever shifter wise I was in same boat three years back when going back to drops after a 30 year break during which time I'd spent a lot of time on gripshift equipped MTB's

My mantra is "smaller lever smaller ring, bigger lever bigger ring"


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## snailracer (11 Sep 2010)

Jezston said:


> Apart from the now redundant 'rules' aspects of cantilevers, are there any advantages to such brakes?


By varying the angle of the yoke wire (the bit that connects the arms), their mechanical advantage vs. travel can be adjusted to suit your type of riding and individual preference. In the early days of mountain biking, fiddling with the yoke angle provided mountain bikers with endless hours of amusement. With most other types of brakes, including V-brakes, you get what you're given.


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