# World Champs Road Races - SPOILER



## Flying_Monkey (23 Sep 2011)

Yes, the main events aren't until the weekend but already, something you might not have expected: there is a victory for Britain in the Junior Women's RR - Lucy Garner absolutely stomping on the rest of the field in a sprint finish.


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## mr Mag00 (23 Sep 2011)

yes just been hearing about this looking for highlights, good news a great sprint finish i hear


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## raindog (23 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yes, the main events aren't until the weekend but already, something you might not have expected: there is a victory for Britain in the Junior Women's RR - Lucy Garner absolutely stomping on the rest of the field in a sprint finish.


Isn't she great? Barely 17. I think we can say we're almost churning them out at the mo.....


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## PpPete (23 Sep 2011)

Looks like a bit of blood on her left leg? did she have an off earlier ?


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## cjb (23 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yes, the main events aren't until the weekend but already, something you might not have expected: there is a victory for Britain in the Junior Women's RR - Lucy Garner absolutely stomping on the rest of the field in a sprint finish.




Great news, thanks


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## mr Mag00 (23 Sep 2011)

how will cav deal with Sunday?


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Sep 2011)

The U23 men's also looks to be coming back together for a sprint finish, and although the senior RR is on a longer course, this pattern may well be repeated. If it is, and Cav stays with the main peleton, and this seems more likely with a full GB team supporting him, it's hard to bet against him. The big threats come from either Gilbert or Hushovd or someone like them, launching a late attack to disrupt or pre-empt a sprint.


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## raindog (23 Sep 2011)

Another medal with Andy Fenn taking third, but the French were superb with Arnaud Demare winning and Petit taking silver.

Alot of pushing and shoving for the last couple of ks - going to be mayhem on sunday.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Another medal with Andy Fenn taking third, but the French were superb with Arnaud Demare winning and Petit taking silver.
> 
> Alot of pushing and shoving for the last couple of ks - going to be mayhem on sunday.



Britain is having a pretty good World's. 

You are right about the potential for argy-bargy - the field is going to be enormous and, as the saying goes, there will be blood.


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## raindog (23 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Britain is having a pretty good World's.


Can you imagine if Armitage takes it tomorrow and Cav does the job on Sunday?


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## gavroche (23 Sep 2011)

well, i am going to go against the flow here but personally, I dont think Cav is world champion material. Dont get me wrong, I like the man but he is only a sprinter. He cant TT, he cant climb and he cant break free from the peloton on his own. 
Like I said in another thread, I believe the world champion should be someone who is a near complete rider so that rules out Cav I am afraid.


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## raindog (23 Sep 2011)

Not sure what flow you think you're going against here. If Cavendish wins on Sunday he's world champion, if he doesn't, then he isn't, but it's got nothing to do with whether or not you think he's a complete rider.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Not sure what flow you think you're going against here. If Cavendish wins on Sunday he's world champion, if he doesn't, then he isn't, but it's got nothing to do with whether or not you think he's a complete rider.



Exactly. It isn't a question of 'worth', just who is actually likely to win in any given year.


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## gavroche (23 Sep 2011)

Sorry but I disagree and stick to my opinion. A world champion had to be someone who is better than the others, with the right credentials. Like I said, Cav is only a printer and may I say the best printer in the world, but no road champion material.


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## Bayerd (23 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but I disagree and stick to my opinion. A world champion had to be someone who is better than the others, with the right credentials. Like I said, Cav is only a printer and may I say the best printer in the world, but no road champion material.



I'd always wondered about the black fingers..... 


Whilst I agree with your sentiment, the race doesn't involve all riding tests so you're unlikely to see the complete rider as world champ.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but I disagree and stick to my opinion. A world champion had to be someone who is better than the others, with the right credentials. Like I said, Cav is only a printer and may I say the best printer in the world, but no road champion material.



You seem to to be building a straw-man or having an argument with an entirely imaginary point-of-view though. No-one here thinks that winning the World Champs means that you are the best cyclist in the world. It just means that you won the race which is called the World Championships. And in any year, that will depend on the kind of course, the supporting team for any rider etc. And given those factors, this year, Mark Cavendish has a very strong chance of winning. If he is, he will be 'World Champion', he won't suddenly be the 'best rider in the world'.


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## beastie (23 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but I disagree and stick to my opinion. A world champion had to be someone who is better than the others, with the right credentials. Like I said, Cav is only a printer and may I say the best printer in the world, but no road champion material.


Total mince


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## gavroche (23 Sep 2011)

Well, I seem to be the only one to have strong ethics about professional cyclists. So be it. I still think the WC should be decided on points over the whole season.


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## beastie (23 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Well, I seem to be the only one to have strong ethics about professional cyclists. So be it. I still think the WC should be decided on points over the whole season.




Well I think that is not a bad idea. There is already a ranking for the year based on a points system. Phillipe Gilbert is number one, which is probably right.


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## Keith Oates (24 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Well, I seem to be the only one to have strong ethics about professional cyclists. So be it. I still think the WC should be decided on points over the whole season.



I think you'll find that there are quite a few others on this forum that have strong ethics about professional cyclists and they also recognise and fully understand what winning the World Championship race means!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (24 Sep 2011)

beastie said:


> Phillipe Gilbert is number one, which is probably right.


And could well get it on Sunday too, although I quite fancy Sagan to take it.


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## beastie (24 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> And could well get it on Sunday too, although I quite fancy Sagan to take it.


That is a good shout.


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Sep 2011)

Another win for France in the junior men. They are also having a pretty damn good World's so far. The senior women are up next...


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> Well, I seem to be the only one to have strong ethics about professional cyclists. So be it. I still think the WC should be decided on points over the whole season.



For someone who has Descartes as their sigline, you seem to have a remarkable inability to distinguish basic concepts like the difference between what is and what should be, never mind what 'ethics' means.


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## Fiona N (24 Sep 2011)

gavroche said:


> well, i am going to go against the flow here but personally, I dont think Cav is world champion material. Dont get me wrong, I like the man but he is only a sprinter. He cant TT, he cant climb and he cant break free from the peloton on his own.
> Like I said in another thread, I believe the world champion should be someone who is a near complete rider so that rules out Cav I am afraid.



But that's would be the case for Cipolllne - are you saying the great Italian stud wasn't a valid World Champion ? 

I think it depends on the course - pure sprinters have a chance on the flatter courses and more rounded sprinters like Boonen, Bettini and Hushovd on hillier courses. But it so often comes down to the team doesn't it, which is why Italy almost own the (men's) title.


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## oldroadman (24 Sep 2011)

All Gavroche demonstrates is a complete lack of understanding of the sport. The Worlds is what it is, it's 260km and can be hilly, lumpy, or flat depending on location. It's about team racing to get an individual win, which is why the Italians are successful, because they are good at dedicating themselves to their protected rider.
You may as well suggest Grand Tour winners are more complete because they can climb and TT, but rarely sprint.
Like many from my generation, I would have loved a leading role in a team with a chance at the win, but it was not going to happen. A year in rainbow hoops is a great entry on a CV!


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## raindog (24 Sep 2011)

oldroadman said:


> Like many from my generation, I would have loved a leading role in a team with a chance at the win, but it was not going to happen.


oldroadman - are you the same generation as Les West?


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## Strathlubnaig (24 Sep 2011)

that wimmins race was dire today, should have just fast forwarded to the last couple hundred metres, no escapes, no excitement, no sport.


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## rich p (24 Sep 2011)

It was truly awful, right enough.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Sep 2011)

Exciting finish, but I regretted missing most of the F1 qualifying to watch it. Like a criterium without the attacks.


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## Fiona N (24 Sep 2011)

Strathlubnaig said:


> that wimmins race was dire today, should have just fast forwarded to the last couple hundred metres, no escapes, no excitement, no sport.



Maybe they should change the rules so that the strong countries get a maximum of three riders and the weaker countries up to the full whack (?is that 8) which would make it far more difficult for Italy, Australia, GB, Germany etc. to just control the bunch and expend team members running down break-aways


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## Smokin Joe (24 Sep 2011)

A lumpier circuit is what the race needed.


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## dragon72 (24 Sep 2011)

I'm not a big fan of those hamster-wheel lap-course races. It's great for the spectators on the ground, who get to see the riders numerous times, but as a tele-spectator I much prefer a good old A to B race.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Sep 2011)

dragon72 said:


> I'm not a big fan of those hamster-wheel lap-course races. It's great for the spectators on the ground, who get to see the riders numerous times, but as a tele-spectator I much prefer a good old A to B race.


A big problem with circuit races is that after a couple of laps the riders get the feel of the course, where all the hills are, how they and others are going on them and the places where the wind is going to help or hinder. It makes it a lot easier to anticipate and stifle any aggressive moves off the front.

The trouble is that the Worlds does need something to differentiate it from other races, which it already does to one extent with national teams. Perhaps two big circuits rather than multiple smaller ones?


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## beastie (25 Sep 2011)

Most of the road racing so far has been ok, this was the first bland race so far. That said the lack of lumps kinda limits the attacks. I think the men's race will be a lot more aggressive though.


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## accountantpete (25 Sep 2011)

Early stages - 7 man breakaway 8 mins up the road ( or round the circuit) leaving only GB and Germany to chase them down.


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## oldroadman (25 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> oldroadman - are you the same generation as Les West?



No, about 8-10 years on, so more of a crossover. Now I still see Les, he's still knocking 7 bells out of the blokes up Gun Hill. Always had to beware when he said he was "not feeling great". This meant an execution job on the field at some point, usually followed by a solo win. Great bloke.


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## oldroadman (25 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> A lumpier circuit is what the race needed.



Riders make the race - Nederlands is not know for a lot of climbs, but the races there can be very agressive indeed. Too many negative tactics can close a race down even on a lumpy parcours, you just let the climbers play and then close 'em down on the descents.


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## raindog (25 Sep 2011)

oldroadman said:


> Great bloke.


Absolutely. One of my big heros when I were a lad. Saw a photo of him during the ToB on one of the podiums - Stoke, I suppose - and he still looks lean and fit.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Sep 2011)

oldroadman said:


> Riders make the race - Nederlands is not know for a lot of climbs, but the races there can be very agressive indeed. Too many negative tactics can close a race down even on a lumpy parcours, you just let the climbers play and then close 'em down on the descents.


That's true, but I was specifically referring to women's racing which historically has tended to be rather negative (with some great exceptions, obviously).


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## User169 (25 Sep 2011)

Enjoying the dutch commentators continual references to the "English" team.


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## Stephenite (25 Sep 2011)

Yes!!

That was hard work just watching it!!


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## brockers (25 Sep 2011)

HAT!


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## Smokin Joe (25 Sep 2011)

Jesus, that was a tense last kilo.

Well done that man, Sportsman of The Year here we come.


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## beastie (25 Sep 2011)

Well that was a better race than yesterday.!!


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## stephec (25 Sep 2011)

Do you think people will finally stop saying that Cavendish is useless without his big leadout train?

Get in.


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## Orange (25 Sep 2011)

Whenever you think he's blown it, he's too far back, he's left it too late, he's boxed in, they are all working against him - somehow he finds a way and gets there in the last few seconds.

Brilliant... but he doesn't do anything for your heart rate!


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## Stephenite (25 Sep 2011)

I like it how he says "*We* did it!" in an interview with one of the scandinavian channels.

Lots of emphasis on the team, and bringing the jersey to Britain. Great!


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## accountantpete (25 Sep 2011)

I don't know how he copes with the pressure - the team told everyone what they were going to do and did it!


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## gavintc (25 Sep 2011)

Outstanding effort - Cavendish what a man, what a team.


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## rich p (25 Sep 2011)

wow


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## gavintc (25 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Jesus, that was a tense last kilo.
> 
> Well done that man, Sportsman of The Year here we come.




What give it to a bloody cyclist? Most Brits would rather vote for a second rate petrol head. Who incidentally managed a predictable 2nd place in Singapore.


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## beastie (25 Sep 2011)

gavintc said:


> What give it to a bloody cyclist? Most Brits would rather vote for a second rate petrol head. Who incidentally managed a predictable 2nd place in Singapore.



Do you mean like Chris Hoy? (2008)


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## Hip Priest (25 Sep 2011)

gavintc said:


> What give it to a bloody cyclist? Most Brits would rather vote for a second rate petrol head. Who incidentally managed a predictable 2nd place in Singapore.



Eh? Chris Hoy won it in Lewis Hamilton's championship year, so there's clearly no need to feel so bitter.


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## Keith Oates (25 Sep 2011)

He must be in with a chance this year as World Champion and Green Jersey winner in one year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 Sep 2011)

So. Cavendish can't win without a train. He can't sprint uphill. He is arrogant.

All wrong.

If that win and the gracious manner of his post-race interviews don't convince the doubters, nothing will. 

The podium also reflected quite accurately who the current rising powers in world cycling are: Britain, Australia and Germany (and all showed very strong teamwork in this race). All of whom have got there by investing heavily in long-term development programmes, including a strong track element. 

So I guess that also puts paid to another myth - that investing in track success will not lead to success on the road. 

Above all it was just an insane finale. I don't know how anyone had any idea where they were or who was with them or going or anything... a great race.


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## qigong chimp (25 Sep 2011)

Great race indeed. Exhilarating stuff.
Very very very nearly as exciting as Nicole Cooke's 2008 triumph.


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## Rob500 (25 Sep 2011)

What a finish !!!!!

Fantastic result.


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## TVC (25 Sep 2011)

To top it all, Millar is tweeting that he and Wiggins are good mates again.


Inspiring result from the best athletes in Britain.


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## Mista Preston (25 Sep 2011)

nice quick highlights for those who havent seen it. Good interview afterwards

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/default.stm


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## alecstilleyedye (25 Sep 2011)

a great result, for cav and the whole gb team and, frankly, the whole of the cycling fraternity in the uk. incidentally, the last british wearer of the world champion's jersey was also the first cyclist to win the bbc spoty… simpson is still a legend more than 45 years on…


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## rich p (25 Sep 2011)

The lack of any other team assisting in the chase was a bit weasly IMO. The Germans did their bit until they lost a couple in the crash split but the Aussies, Spanish and Italians just sucked, so to speak.


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## tsddave (25 Sep 2011)

I think this win must silence all Cav haters once and for all.

Its really nice to see Cav and other British riders finally putting the UK on the cycling map.


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## Hip Priest (25 Sep 2011)

I think some people will always dislike Cav, regardless of what he acheives. He's just that sort of bloke. Personally, I think he's great.


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## raindog (25 Sep 2011)

tsddave said:


> I think this win must silence all Cav haters once and for all.


It hasn't - just have a look around the forums.


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## TVC (25 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I think some people will always dislike Cav, regardless of what he acheives. He's just that sort of bloke. *Personally, I think he's great.*



His girlfriend is quite easy on the eye as well.


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## Hip Priest (25 Sep 2011)

Easy on the eye? 

On the contrary. I hear she has caused irreparable damage to the eyesight of many young men.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I think some people will always dislike Cav, regardless of what he acheives. He's just that sort of bloke. Personally, I think he's great.


Too many people have been brought up with the celebrity culture where brainless grinning idiots are paraded in front of the cameras repeating all the trite phrases their PR people have coached them in. When an individual comes along and talks without having to look at the notes from his speechwriter and says what he thinks they perceive it as arrogance.

Cav comes across as a very humble guy, enormously talented but gracious enough to appreciate the contribution of others. I have never heard another cyclist acknowledge his team-mates as much as he does.


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## Baggy (25 Sep 2011)

An excellent result - great win for Cav, and Geraint Thomas also did a grand job.


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## Hip Priest (25 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Cav comes across as a very humble guy, enormously talented but gracious enough to appreciate the contribution of others. I have never heard another cyclist acknowledge his team-mates as much as he does.



And the best thing is, he seems sincere when he praises his team. It doesn't seem like he's just doing it because he thinks he should.


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## dellzeqq (25 Sep 2011)

I thought the Australians and the Germans got what they deserved, and, sadly, what they hoped for. The UK team rode unflustered by the escapes because they had faith in themselves and in Cavendish. The Australians and Germans just hung around hoping that Wiggins and co. would be exhausted, but without any real intention.

And Cavendish does seem sincere when he talks about his team.


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## StuAff (25 Sep 2011)

Chris Boardman summed it up well in a tweet: "One plan, widely publicised....and still delivered". They all deserve rainbow jerseys!


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## HLaB (25 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I thought the Australians and the Germans got what they deserved, and, sadly, what they hoped for. The UK team rode unflustered by the escapes because they had faith in themselves and in Cavendish. The Australians and Germans just hung around hoping that Wiggins and co. would be exhausted, but without any real intention.
> 
> And Cavendish does seem sincere when he talks about his team.



I thought the Aussie's or Italian's might nick it and Cav's positioning had let him down, what do I know


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## HonestMan1910 (25 Sep 2011)

Superb display of teamwork and sticking to a plan, well done all in Red, White & Blue.


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## Kirstie (25 Sep 2011)

I just watched it on Sky plus and have managed to avoid everything today which might give the game away! It was an absolutely textbook performance from Team GB. I practically hit the ceiling when cav won and have only just managed to sit still half an hour later. They were just brilliant and deserved the win as they worked for every inch of the road.


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## zizou (25 Sep 2011)

So exciting to watch, almost felt like Britain v the World for long parts of it


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## Fletch456 (25 Sep 2011)

It's a shame there isn't a team medal.

Great win. Really great to see a GB win.


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## Willo (25 Sep 2011)

Great ride by the team and incredible finish by Cavendish. Never fails to amaze me that despite being so obviously the man to watch the opposition cannot do oubt to stop him despite clearly trying to close him in during the run-in. Just watched the Europsport highlights and I had to replay to finish a few times on Sky+ to fathom how he managed to get through when it looked like he'd been hemmed in against the rails. Worthy wearer of the jersey and great for the ever increasing profile of British road cycling. 

As for people liking Cav or not, I've always liked him although admit to commenting a year or 2 back that he could be more dignified in interviews etc. Well he's certainly answered that in the positive and is a great representative for GB and cycling in general. In fact I like the emotion he displays at times; seems some will always knock anyone who dares show a bit of character. In any case, becoming world champion level at anything generally requires a fair amount of single-mindedness (which can be interpreted for selfishness) and self-belief (which can be interpreted as arrogance).


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## Fletch456 (25 Sep 2011)

Just found this great quote from Cav. I would say I am a fan, may be not his number one but he's a great guy a just brilliant at what he does. Out of position and no lead out train in the last few hundred metres and all those wins I think there can be no doubting his ability on the bike that's for sure.

Then quotes like this must mean any who don't like Cav have stone hearts or simply don't know him at all well in my book:

“The team all rode out of their skins today. It’s a shame they can’t wear the world champion’s jersey as well. I’ve won the jersey, but I just put the finishing touches to the mission”.


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## Glover Fan (25 Sep 2011)

For me personally, one of Cav's best interviews was in the TdF after the stage when Wiggo came off and Cav only found out when the journalist spoke to him about it and Cav looked genuinely upset about it and I'm pretty sure said something along the lines of "oh shoot" on live tv.

He wears his heart on his sleeve and if you follow him on Twitter is an extremely open individual and really embraces his fans.

I'm so happy for him. No doubt he won't win Sports Personality, but we all know he is the only sporting individual worthy of it this year.

Just a shame the whole team cannot wear the hoops.


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## fimm (25 Sep 2011)

I've watched the finish several times and it still gets my heart racing every time!

If you can, watch it again. When Cav crosses the line, he celebrates and then he stops quite quickly and starts looking behind him - various people congratulate him - why does he stop so quickly? I assume (and it is only an assumption) that he was trying to find some/all of the rest of the team to thank them (it doesn't happen because he gets swept up in a crowd of media and officials).


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## Sonofpear (26 Sep 2011)

What a great race. Executed perfectly. Im a big fan of wiggins and that turn he did on the front on the last lap was immense. On the run in there was an over head shot and I think stannard and Thomas were blocked in but they muscled down the right kerb but cav got blocked in and couldn't follow them. He's screwed I thought, way back and seemingly boxed in. Then it cuts to the head on shot and you glimpsed cav break down the inside and he's putting the hammer down. Absolutely class. I was screaming at the tv. Awesome ride from team GB. Loved it.


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## cd365 (26 Sep 2011)

I was watching it with the wife (who doesn't like cycling) and her comment was "where did he come from" after it had looked like he was out of it. Amazing stuff.


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## GilesM (26 Sep 2011)

Spent the whole day yesterday keeping away from the radio, TV or PC until I got to sit down and watch it last night, absolutely brilliant, the most exciting thing I've watched for as long as I can remember.


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## philk56 (26 Sep 2011)

It was an amazing finish.

Sounds like it must have been quite a party last night judging from this tweet from Bradley Wiggins: "Balls! Sore head missed my flight" !


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## RedRider (26 Sep 2011)

some racing talk on 5live right now

Edit: and if you blinked you missed it


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## yello (26 Sep 2011)

Anyone got a link that I can watch the last 5km or so on? Missed it yesterday on the box... because I didn't think it was on!


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## RedRider (26 Sep 2011)

yello said:


> Anyone got a link that I can watch the last 5km or so on? Missed it yesterday on the box... because I didn't think it was on!




It's on the iPlayer but I think that's only available in the UK. Sorry, man.


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## ColinJ (26 Sep 2011)

I enjoyed watching how it was done, despite there being no suspense for me because I already knew the result. Anyway - swiftly moving on ... 

The thing about 3 years of preparation since Copenhagan was announced as the venue really struck me. I was watching the Tour of Poland earlier in the season and I remember someone pointing out how GB riders picking up ranking points here and there was very important to qualify more riders for the Worlds. Cav made a point of mentioning all that hard work by his team mates, which wasn't just on the day, but was all season long.

Super effort!


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## HLaB (26 Sep 2011)

yello said:


> Anyone got a link that I can watch the last 5km or so on? Missed it yesterday on the box... because I didn't think it was on!



The last 2km are here  if you haven't already found something better.

Edit: Somebody else has posted the last 5kms or so on youtube and its good HD footage


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## Kirstie (26 Sep 2011)

Is it just me or does everyone think that the Team GB strip is a bit gopping? We (or rather, I) need to see more muscle and less swirls! Hope they change it.


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## Smokin Joe (26 Sep 2011)

Kirstie said:


> Is it just me or does everyone think that the Team GB strip is a bit gopping? We (or rather, I) need to see more muscle and less swirls! Hope they change it.


It is crap, isn't it?

I would like to go back to the white jersey with the Union Flag on the shoulders.


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## tigger (26 Sep 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> No doubt he won't win Sports Personality, but we all know he is the only sporting individual worthy of it this year.




I was thinking about this. Realistically, being unbiased, what other sportsman can claim comparable achievements to Cav this year? We need to start a Facebook campaign - I'd do it but I've no idea how to!!!


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## yello (30 Sep 2011)

tigger said:


> Realistically, being unbiased, what other sportsman can claim comparable achievements to Cav this year?



Whilst I agree you ought remember SPOTY isn't supposedly about just results. I have no idea what Cavendish's profile's like in the UK at the moment but the public might well be captivated by someone else. I personally can't think who but then I'm not in the UK!


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## Foghat (5 Oct 2011)

I would very much like to hear, by PM, from anyone who recorded either the full Eurosport coverage or full BBC red button coverage, and who owns a DVD/Blu Ray recorder.


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