# Recumbent shoes



## starhawk (18 Apr 2012)

Are there any recumbent shoes for sale anywhere? I mean shoes where you can attach the SPD nearer to the center of the sole? If not, anyone have a guide how to modify a shoe for this purpose?


----------



## byegad (18 Apr 2012)

Not that I'm aware of, but many shoes allow a wide range of location for the cleats. I use Specialised and Shimano shoes and Shimano sandals and they all allow me to locate the cleat far enough back for comfort.

You can take a Dremel to the slot and extend the hole even further. This seems very 'popular' in the USA as threads on BROL mention this every now and then.


----------



## starhawk (18 Apr 2012)

The shoes I have now have threaded holes so I have only two positionts to choose from. Extending the hole wouldn't work in that case. How are the arrangement done in Specialized and Shimano shoes?


----------



## sunnyjim (18 Apr 2012)

The internal metal sole plate on my shoes (specialized) doesn't go back far enough, so I cut away some of the rubber and fitted an aluminium plate to the outside of the sole. The cleats are screwed in to threaded holes tapped in the plate. I posted a pic some time ago -not sure if it's still around. This was a bit extreme, but I wanted the cleats almost back at the instep. The limit of how far back they coud be moved seems to be when there's a danger of the ankle bending the wrong way as the crank goes over the top.
Far back cleats & short cranks work well for me on the trike. It's more difficult to twist out of the cleat 'though (SPD). No bad thing on a trike, but a bit dodgy on a 2 wheeler, so I keep another pair of shoes with the cleats at the furthest back position. I'm thinking of loooking at other cleat types.


----------



## mickle (18 Apr 2012)

Eh? Why?


----------



## starhawk (18 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> Eh? Why?


Two reasons basically, the first is to avoid groundstrike, i.e. hitting the ground with your heel. The second is that some people claim that they get better milage and speed with the cleat further back


----------



## sunnyjim (18 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> Eh? Why?


 

Why not?

On a penny-farthing, using the ball of the foot to pedal lets you have a bigger diameter wheel for your leg length. (According to Sheldon)
On a safety /DF bicycle, allows standing on the pedals to sprint with similar forces and balance to walking. If planning to stay in the saddle this might not be important.

For a recumbent, these issues aren't relevant, making the question of best cleat position open to choice.

Mid foot is a nice compromise between minimising unneccessary strain on ankles & calves and keeping up the pressure throughout the circle. You can also push very hard from the heel with a near straight leg, so good for brief sprint pushing shoulders back against seat and lifting bum off a bit.


----------



## mickle (18 Apr 2012)

starhawk said:


> Two reasons basically, the first is to avoid groundstrike, i.e. hitting the ground with your heel. The second is that some people claim that they get better milage and speed with the cleat further back


I'd be interested to read these claims, I've never encountered this theory and it goes against everything I know about cleat position.

The correct fix for 'groundstrike' is a higher bb. I'd be _mightily_ pished off with the manufacturer if I was clipping my heel on the ground. Even with my size 11s.


----------



## mickle (18 Apr 2012)

sunnyjim said:


> Why not?
> 
> On a penny-farthing, using the ball of the foot to pedal lets you have a bigger diameter wheel for your leg length. (According to Sheldon)
> On a safety /DF bicycle, allows standing on the pedals to sprint with similar forces and balance to walking. If planning to stay in the saddle this might not be important.
> ...


 
You appear to have outlined the argument against very effectively. Pushing hard against the seat is bad practice - for the components of your bike, for your knees and for your cardiovascular system.

The benefits of high RPM over brute force are the same whatever your seat angle.

What's a DF bicycle?


----------



## sunnyjim (18 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> You appear to have outlined the argument against very effectively. Pushing hard against the seat is bad practice - for the components of your bike, for your knees and for your cardiovascular system.
> 
> The benefits of high RPM over brute force are the same whatever your seat angle.
> 
> What's a DF bicycle?


 

Agree high rpm is always better than grunt, and that's what I do. That doesn't dictate a ball-of-foot position over any other, so the suggestion of reducing unneccessary strain may be open to discussion, but not instant dismissal. I had some problems with weak/swolen ankles some years ago, and although I could hardly walk even with a stick, (tri)cycling was no problem apart from unclipping, which sometimes needed manual assistance. Not proof but at least one datapoint. Others repot relief from various foot pains.

Heel strike is perhaps a peripheral issue, although I used to ground occassionally on my QNT on speed humps before moving to 145mm cranks and a more cleat back position.

Sometimes a couple of big hard shoves work wonders- like getting up a hump. Not good for the knees, as you say but quite fun. Standing on the pedals on a *D*iamond *F*rame bike isn't most efficient either, but OK for short bursts.

I believe it was bad practice not to use 'ankling' for many years, now discredited. Dogmatic rules always need questioning.


----------



## mickle (18 Apr 2012)

DF 

I found the whole 'short cranks' discussion very interesting, flying in the face, as it does, of accepted wisdom. Initially proposed as a way of reducing the frontal area of a body shell, they expected losses but found none. The crank is just a lever, and the reduction of leverage (of a shorter crank) can be compensated for in the gearing. There has to be a range of crank lengths which are feasible, because where do you stop? 50mm? 275mm? And within that range it must be possible to settle on an optimal length for a given discipline (road/off-road/recumbent..)for a given leg length.

But I'm finding it hard to get my head around this cleat position malarky.

Happy to be proved wrong mind (he said through gritted teeth...) ;-)


----------



## sunnyjim (18 Apr 2012)

There doesn't seem to be any single factor for cleat position. I did it primarily because of a physical problem, but am also quite happy with the conventional arrangement. As Starhawk mentioned some think it makes them go faster, and others apparently get relief from their 'hot foot', so maybe in truth it isn't very important for a recumbent at least, just personal preference.

I hadn't thought about crank length at all (apart from being vaugely aware that some upright riders argued for longer ones) until getting a recumbent. It sort of makes sense that there must be an optimum for a given leg length, and that it must be somewhere between > zero and say 200-300mm. I made up a pair of crude crank shorteners from mild steel and gradually reduced the length on the trike by 5mm increments over a period of about 3 weeks. I got as far as 145mm, which was the limit of the home made shorteners and still hadn't felt any significant difference, so decided that less leg bend could only be a good thing so finally drilled & tapped new holes for the pedals at that. I left the cranks full length so there is always the option to go back for comparison.
When I got the Raptobike, where tyre strike is also an issue, going back to 170mm cranks felt strange (apart from all the other strange feelings a raptobike provides), so cut the cranks down in one go to 135mm with no apparent ill effects. TBH I hadn't thought enough about uncleating torque when I did that. I haven't really done enough miles on it to draw useful conclusions.
Obviously the maximum available drive torque is reduced, so generally needs a lower gear uphill or for accelleration if near the limit of force the rider can provide, although generally the same gear as full length cranks on flat/downhill when only desired cadence matters. It might be argued that a less bent -but-not-completely-straight leg can produce more force (and potential damage of course), so partially compensates for the lower torque.


----------



## byegad (18 Apr 2012)

I run my cleats right back in all my shoes. I do this to avoid numb toes in winter and hot foot in summer. I make no claims for efficiency or anything else, it's for comfort.


----------



## starhawk (19 Apr 2012)

Well my reason is to avoid groundstrikes, if it increases my milaga and/or speed it's a welcome bonus but nothing I strive for


----------



## mickle (19 Apr 2012)

starhawk said:


> Well my reason is to avoid groundstrikes, if it increases my milaga and/or speed it's a welcome bonus but nothing I strive for


How high is your bb?


----------



## starhawk (19 Apr 2012)

What the heck is a BB?


----------



## machew (19 Apr 2012)

BB = Bottom Bracket (Wiki link)


----------



## starhawk (20 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> I'd be interested to read these claims, I've never encountered this theory and it goes against everything I know about cleat position.
> 
> The correct fix for 'groundstrike' is a higher bb. I'd be _mightily_ pished off with the manufacturer if I was clipping my heel on the ground. Even with my size 11s.


 
When you are sitting as low as you are in a tadpole a higher BB would be rather inconvenient, and you are not getting groundstrikes all the time, only in certain positions. However there is no reason to have the cleat under your toes, in fact its rather tuff for your calf muscle to have it there. So the correct fix is not a higher BB but to move the cleat back on your shoes. An easy fix which doesn't require a rebuilding of the trike and an discomfortable riding position


----------



## byegad (20 Apr 2012)

Mickle, think of heel strike as toe overlap on a conventional bike. Lots of people learn to handle it. Frankly even when my cleats were in their old upright position under the ball of my foot I only had heel strike on uneven ground. Even now, with the cleats are fully toward my instep as the shoes allow, I occasionally clip my heel when bumping down a kerb.


----------



## mickle (20 Apr 2012)

byegad said:


> Mickle, think of heel strike as toe overlap on a conventional bike. Lots of people learn to handle it. Frankly even when my cleats were in their old upright position under the ball of my foot I only had heel strike on uneven ground. Even now, with the cleats are fully toward my instep as the shoes allow, I occasionally clip my heel when bumping down a kerb.


Yeah I know what it is, I've owned and ridden plenty of recumberant trikes and it's not something I ever remember having a problem with. I appreciate that's probably because the particular machines I've ridden just weren't prone to it - mainly Windcheetahs of assorted vintage.


----------



## mickle (20 Apr 2012)

starhawk said:


> When you are sitting as low as you are in a tadpole a higher BB would be rather inconvenient, and you are not getting groundstrikes all the time, only in certain positions. However there is no reason to have the cleat under your toes, in fact its rather tuff for your calf muscle to have it there. So the correct fix is not a higher BB but to move the cleat back on your shoes. An easy fix which doesn't require a rebuilding of the trike and an discomfortable riding position


 
A 25 or 50mm higher BB is neither here nor there in performance or convenience terms - but it would reduce the chances of your heel hitting the ground. Whatever the pro's and con's of moving the cleat back in the shoe - moving the cleat is an arse backwards way of dealing with this problem.

I've a very open mind to change - we wouldn't have got where we are today without people pushing the boundaries of what we know. But I'm on the side of pedal manufacturers, shoe manufacturers, 100% of professional riders and 100 years of accepted wisdom when it comes to cleat placement. Anyone who claims that moving the cleat backwards improves efficiency would need to show some pretty serious evidence to change my mind. Move the cleat if you want to stop banging your heel on the ground, just don't kid yourself that you are doing it for reasons of biomechanical efficiency.


----------



## starhawk (20 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> A 25 or 50mm higher BB is neither here nor there in performance or convenience terms - but it would reduce the chances of your heel hitting the ground. Whatever the pro's and con's of moving the cleat back in the shoe - moving the cleat is an arse backwards way of dealing with this problem.
> 
> I've a very open mind to change - we wouldn't have got where we are today without people pushing the boundaries of what we know. But I'm on the side of pedal manufacturers, shoe manufacturers, 100% of professional riders and 100 years of accepted wisdom when it comes to cleat placement. Anyone who claims that moving the cleat backwards improves efficiency would need to show some pretty serious evidence to change my mind. Move the cleat if you want to stop banging your heel on the ground, just don't kid yourself that you are doing it for reasons of biomechanical efficiency.


 
Hmmmm... Let see now, the first solution is to rebuild the bike to raise the BB and the second is a slight mod of the shoes, wonder how you got the second solution as the arse backward way of dealing with the problem, for me it is the other way around, why choose a complex way of dealing with the problem when there is an easy way?
Hmmmm... First you say that you have a very open mind to change, then you say that you are a diehard believer in the old things! That doesn't add up for me!
I'm not kidding myself that I are doing it for reasons of biomechanical efficiency, it is a welcome bonus that it doesn't put any unneccesary strain on the calf muscle as the topfot cleat position does


----------



## sunnyjim (20 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> A 25 or 50mm higher BB is neither here nor there in performance or convenience terms - but it would reduce the chances of your heel hitting the ground. Whatever the pro's and con's of moving the cleat back in the shoe - moving the cleat is an arse backwards way of dealing with this problem.
> 
> I've a very open mind to change - we wouldn't have got where we are today without people pushing the boundaries of what we know. But I'm on the side of pedal manufacturers, shoe manufacturers, 100% of professional riders and 100 years of accepted wisdom when it comes to cleat placement. Anyone who claims that moving the cleat backwards improves efficiency would need to show some pretty serious evidence to change my mind. Move the cleat if you want to stop banging your heel on the ground, just don't kid yourself that you are doing it for reasons of biomechanical efficiency.


 

I don't know how many professional recumbent riders there have been over the last 100 years,but I suspect not many. A bit of googling for ' midfoot + cleat + cycle' might lead to further enquiry about the universal acceptance of conventional wisdom even for DF/safety/upright bikes. If we always followed conventional wisdom, there probably wouldn't be any recumbent bikes.
OTOH, there might not have been any cars, and Commuting would be full of indignant videos of inconsiderate horses. 

As it's quite easy to modify an old pair of shoes, why not try it for yourself?


----------



## mickle (20 Apr 2012)

starhawk said:


> Hmmmm... Let see now, the first solution is to rebuild the bike to raise the BB and the second is a slight mod of the shoes, wonder how you got the second solution as the arse backward way of dealing with the problem, for me it is the other way around, why choose a complex way of dealing with the problem when there is an easy way?
> Hmmmm... First you say that you have a very open mind to change, then you say that you are a diehard believer in the old things! That doesn't add up for me!
> I'm not kidding myself that I are doing it for reasons of biomechanical efficiency, it is a welcome bonus that it doesn't put any unneccesary strain on the calf muscle as the topfot cleat position does


"Anyone who claims that moving the cleat backwards improves efficiency would need to show some pretty serious evidence to change my mind."

As for strain on the calf muscles... are you ok with standing and walking?


----------



## starhawk (21 Apr 2012)

From a resaerch report:
"_A lot of people roll their eyes or shake their heads when the subject of Midfoot cleat position comes up. All I will say is that if you have tried it, your opinion is valid whether you enjoyed or disliked the experience. If you haven’t tried it, you don’t have an opinion. You are speculating._"
and
"_the further forward the cleats relative to foot in shoe, the harder the calves (gastrocs and soleus) have to also work to help stablilise ankle and foot. My working theory, (I call it this because it seems to hold up empirically) is that when the calves are loaded heavily enough for long enough, they are the first muscle group involved in the pedaling action to ‘give up’ which affects pedaling action in a variety of ways. One of them being the ’dead’ quads feeling familiar to many who have their cleats too far forward._"
Which may explain why I was a little woobly on the feets for a while after a long ride
And regarding to the question "are you ok with standing and walking"
"_midfoot is where a bit of commitment is needed in either buying custom shoes or in modifying existing ones, in toe overlap and other matters. It is also the cleat position that is far and away the best if the rider’s requirement is long, sustained performance at high or low intensity. It is no accident that a disproportionate number of successful RAAM riders use a midfoot cleat position. It is also the position I would advise as being the best for triathlon (a study confirming this will be made public soon) because the much lower loading on the calves leads to increased performance when running off the bike."_


----------



## BlackPanther (21 Apr 2012)

Hmmmm. Can't say I've had any probs with my cleats position. I set them dead centre (for forward/back and left/right) when I first started using them on the hybrid and road bike, and haven't changed them now I'm riding the 'bent, and they're very comfortable. As mine is a Bacchetta high racer obviously there's no chance of my heels getting near the floor, but as the cleats only move a cm or 2 I can't see it making much difference, but maybe if you also fitted shorter cranks?


----------



## starhawk (22 Apr 2012)

Well the given distance is hardly that little, it is more in the region of 4 cm and I don't want to shorten the cranks, that will upset the gear picture and I like the cranks as they are. The question now is if I can find the Biomac shoes or if I have to modify some ordinary shoes


----------



## glasgowcyclist (22 Apr 2012)

mickle said:


> But I'm finding it hard to get my head around this cleat position malarky.
> 
> Happy to be proved wrong mind (he said through gritted teeth...) ;-)


 

I'm with you on this cleat position thing.

I've always believed that the optimum position for pedalling placed the ball of the foot over the pedal spindle. I was also told that putting the arch of the foot over the spindle was poor for efficiency and could damage your feet. Does all this change just because my feet are now out in front of me? Aren't the forces through the feet still the same?


(Newbie to recumbents with a SMGT)


----------



## starhawk (23 Apr 2012)

The forces are the same but the ball of the foot over the spindle being the best is proven wrong, it is best for certain ways of cycling, but there are two other posistions and the midfoot is best for sustained cycling at low or high intensity and that is the way I cycle so it is a bonus as I move the cleat for another reason
Have checked out reviews of the Biomac shoes, apparently thay are of not very good quality and are very expensive, one reviewer suggested buying ordinary racing shoes and modify them instead


----------



## glasgowcyclist (23 Apr 2012)

starhawk said:


> The forces are the same but the ball of the foot over the spindle being the best is proven wrong, it is best for certain ways of cycling, but there are two other posistions and the midfoot is best for sustained cycling at low or high intensity and that is the way I cycle so it is a bonus as I move the cleat for another reason
> Have checked out reviews of the Biomac shoes, apparently thay are of not very good quality and are very expensive, one reviewer suggested buying ordinary racing shoes and modify them instead


 

I've had a quick google around and can see I have a lot of reading to do.

Here's just a couple of the links I'm studying

http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/Pedalling/LFC ideas/LFC Notes.htm
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position

I'll maybe experiment with cleat position on the 'bent.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Pemsey (27 Apr 2012)

Hi - new on here and found this discussion (I have just ..literally-bought a 'bent trike)- I've read some stuff about the mid position cleat setting previously. I haven't tried it myself - not sure if it would "work" for me or not but it did occur to me that the mid foot position is pretty close to the position that small children, riders in the 3rd world and anyone who hasn't been "taught" about the " correct" position tend to place their feet on the pedals. Obviously a lot of that is to do with what position feels most secure when you're not attached to the pedals etc - but I can't help thinking there might be some "intuition" there about what feels right.
It may just be the case that the mid position will work well for some people and not others - maybe ther's just no right or wrong about foot positon - whatever works and feels comfortable is obviously the "best" position.

Newbie on a tadpole in Northants


----------



## sunnyjim (27 Apr 2012)

Pemsey said:


> Hi - new on here and found this discussion (I have just ..literally-bought a 'bent trike)- I've read some stuff about the mid position cleat setting previously. I haven't tried it myself - not sure if it would "work" for me or not but it did occur to me that the mid foot position is pretty close to the position that small children, riders in the 3rd world and anyone who hasn't been "taught" about the " correct" position tend to place their feet on the pedals. Obviously a lot of that is to do with what position feels most secure when you're not attached to the pedals etc - but I can't help thinking there might be some "intuition" there about what feels right.
> It may just be the case that the mid position will work well for some people and not others - maybe ther's just no right or wrong about foot positon - whatever works and feels comfortable is obviously the "best" position.
> 
> Newbie on a tadpole in Northants


 
Whatever the answer, there's definitely more research needed. I've a suspicion that cleat position and crank length are somehow related, but with absolutely no evidence.

Hopefully the increasing numbers of recumbulantists will lead to more data points.


----------



## starhawk (28 Apr 2012)

Pemsey said:


> Hi - new on here and found this discussion (I have just ..literally-bought a 'bent trike)- I've read some stuff about the mid position cleat setting previously. I haven't tried it myself - not sure if it would "work" for me or not but it did occur to me that the mid foot position is pretty close to the position that small children, riders in the 3rd world and anyone who hasn't been "taught" about the " correct" position tend to place their feet on the pedals. Obviously a lot of that is to do with what position feels most secure when you're not attached to the pedals etc - but I can't help thinking there might be some "intuition" there about what feels right.
> It may just be the case that the mid position will work well for some people and not others - maybe ther's just no right or wrong about foot positon - whatever works and feels comfortable is obviously the "best" position.
> 
> Newbie on a tadpole in Northants


You are right about that  I always had my foot on the mid position before a friend of mine introduced me to clips. But the fore position may be more natural when you sprint, something I rarely do since I upgraded my trike to an e-trike


----------



## byegad (6 May 2012)

Mickle is obviously well wound up about this. Just to restate.

I moved my cleats as far back as they would go to get rid of numb toes in winter and hot foot in summer. As I've said before this was for comfort not heel strike, or efficiency issues. I've noticed no loss in power from doing this.

I hope he's equally keen on redesigning uprights so there is no toe overlap with the front wheel as this is far more dangerous than brushing your heel on the ground now and again.


----------



## starhawk (19 May 2012)

As I have bought a pair of racing shoes to have as backup I have now started the modifying process on the spinning shoes. I have grinded away a lot of the rubber sole to make place for the SPD cleats, the shoes originally had recessed cleats and I want to keep it that way after experienced walking on the racing shoes which don't have recessed cleats. Just one question there, how much clear space is needed around the cleat? I have a good clearence in front of and behind the cleat but literally none on the sides, is that okey?
I am thinking about glueing some rubber from an inner tube on the cleat to remove the crackling noise when walking on a sanded road, or would that be to thick for the pedal?


----------



## Boris Bajic (19 May 2012)

I'm not sure I understand this thread, but will try to help. The answer seems pretty clear to me.

When recumbent, my shoes of choice are* bedroom slippers*.

Sometimes I'll go without shoes altogether and sit by the fire with bare feet.

On my bicycle (a proper bicycle) I favour cycling shoes.

I hope these words have helped.


----------



## starhawk (20 May 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> I'm not sure I understand this thread, but will try to help. The answer seems pretty clear to me.
> 
> When recumbent, my shoes of choice are* bedroom slippers*.
> 
> ...


 
Well then I can clear it up to you Boris, You are not shure you understand this thread, I can assure you that you don't understand it at all! There is something in the world called recumbent bicycles and as far as this forum goes it* is* the proper bike!

I hope these words have helped you realize that there is a world outside of your confines


----------



## machew (21 May 2012)

When on a recumbent, my shoes of choice are sandals


----------



## starhawk (22 May 2012)

machew said:


> When on a recumbent, my shoes of choice are sandals


My choice of shoes when on a recumbent is slippers, but that is rather irrelevant as this is about shoes you wear on a recumbent bicycle, or do you wear sandals then as well?


----------



## machew (22 May 2012)

starhawk said:


> My choice of shoes when on a recumbent is slippers, but that is rather irrelevant as this is about shoes you wear on a recumbent bicycle, or do you wear sandals then as well?


 
Clip-less Sandals and a beard are a must on recumbents


----------



## starhawk (24 May 2012)

This weekend will be the test, I shall just drill two additional holes in each shoe so the mounting plate sits more smooth, then it's time to test. The weather forecast says sunny and no clouds so the conditions are ideal


----------



## sunnyjim (24 May 2012)

Check carefully by trial how your foot will lie on the pedal before drilling the holes. I was surprised to find that I needed to move the cleats sideways and at a slightly different angle as well as just backwards to get the most comfortable positon.


----------



## starhawk (24 May 2012)

Thanks for the tip! I have only drilled two holes in each shoe as of yet. Maybe wait with the additional holes until I see how my feet want it. I have already moved the position of the new holes to the centre-line of the sole, the original holes are slightly offset in direction of the crank


----------



## starhawk (2 Jun 2012)

Found a kind of alternative to the clips, a heelstrap, basically a wire mounted to the pedals which goes around the heel keeping the foot from falling. The advantage is that you can use any shoes, Wonder if it is any good?


----------



## sunnyjim (2 Jun 2012)

starhawk said:


> Found a kind of alternative to the clips, a heelstrap, basically a wire mounted to the pedals which goes around the heel keeping the foot from falling. The advantage is that you can use any shoes, Wonder if it is any good?


 I used to ski with bindings something like that.. .They were discussed over on BROL about a year ago IIRC - named something like heel sling pedals. It sounds like a good idea for using normal shoes, but not sure if it would let you pull on the pedal for a true circular motion. 
You can also get platforms with a cleat on the bottom & clips on the top intended for triathlons so they don't have to change from cycling to running shoes.I can't remember the company.


----------



## starhawk (2 Jun 2012)

You are probably thinking of Pyro, but Terratrike have a set of interesting things called Strapped Heel Support Pedals, the interesting thing is that the axle are exactly at the midfoot position, right where I want them! they are currently out of stock, hope not for eternity


----------



## zoxed (4 Jun 2012)

Hase also sell heel supports: http://hasebikes.com/29-1-recumbent-trike-kettwiesel-allround.html then "Select Accessories" and scroll down.


----------



## starhawk (5 Jun 2012)

They have an interesting array of pedals, but the platform probably requires that the strap are tightened real hard


----------



## starhawk (1 Aug 2012)

Update!
The modified shoes have been tested without success, the rubber sole is thicker at the new position so the cleats doesn't reach the locking mechanism in the pedals. While I was thinking about placing washers under the cleat I ordered Terratrikes Strapped Heel Support Pedals and they have now arrived, so the modifying process now doesn't feel so relevant. You can use any shoes you want in these pedals or more platforms, and the axle are in exactly the right position, midfoot! I changed the pedals yesterday so now I'm only waiting for the weather to get better so I can test them


----------



## sunnyjim (1 Aug 2012)

Look forward to that, SH - they would certainly be handy when going somewhere where walking over polished wooden floors in cleats is frowned on.
My shoe mods did require a fair bit of surgery butchery.


----------



## starhawk (2 Aug 2012)

Well I tried walking up a stone staircase with cleats on my racing shoes, a truly scary experience. But if I remove the cleats I can use the cycling shoes too. The mod is put on hold until I see if these new pedals suits me.


----------



## Night Train (3 Aug 2012)

This thread has been interesting.

When on an upright bike my feet feel fine clipped in but the same shoes clipped in on the trike feel wrong.
I may try relocating the cleats nearer mid sole as an experiment.

I suspect that when upright and pushing down on a pedal my foot pressure is more towards the toe of the shoe due to both the angle of my foot (toe slightly down) and gravity.
When on the trike I push with a slightly flatter foot angle but also gravity then works to load my foot back towards the heel of the shoe.

This changes the direction of thrust through the cleat and give the apparent effect of it being too close to the toes. I suspect that moving the cleat, perhaps around 5mm back or thereabouts, would make a difference.
Whether it is an improvement or I don't know but it is worth a try, when I can ride again.


----------



## byegad (4 Aug 2012)

Night Train. I'd suggest you try the cleats fully back in the existing slots, this was enough for me although I found SPDs still gave me numb toes in winter and hot foot in summer. As I've said before I use Crank Brothers platform pedals and suffer no more.


----------



## Night Train (4 Aug 2012)

Cheers, bygad, I think they are already all the way back anyway.
They were only cheap Aldi shoes so I will see how it works out.


----------



## starhawk (5 Aug 2012)

Was out on a short test run today, The pedals works fine, I got rid of the anklestrap pretty soon, it is really not needed and is awkward to attach. The pedals where very comfortable to use, that "pedal in the foot" feeling was all gone


----------



## Night Train (6 Aug 2012)

starhawk said:


> Was out on a short test run today, The pedals works fine, I got rid of the anklestrap pretty soon, it is really not needed and is awkward to attach. The pedals where very comfortable to use, that "pedal in the foot" feeling was all gone


Have you got photos with your feet on and off the pedals?


----------



## starhawk (6 Aug 2012)

Here are a link to Terra-Trikes site it shows the pedals with the anklestrap and counterweight attached that is about the only things that is different from mine
http://www.terratrike.com/shop/accessories/strapped-heel-support-pedal/prod_6376.html


----------



## markg0vbr (6 Aug 2012)

mid sole for me, have a go your knees and ankles will love it.


as to crank lengths  i have long ones on the touring trike and short on the catrike speed as that is what it came with, both work and both are comfortable. i dont spin any faster with the short ones but the leverage comes in to play on a heavy loaded touring trike winding up a long massive hill at 2.3 mph.


what works on a up wrong, will not always work on a proper mode of transport.


----------



## starhawk (6 Aug 2012)

markg0vbr said:


> mid sole for me, have a go your knees and ankles will love it.
> 
> what works on a up wrong, will not always work on a proper mode of transport.


 

Have read about crank lenght but havent checked mine so I don't know if they are long or short, but they work for me so I'll keep them as they are


----------

