# Audax - awdax or owdax?



## robjh (7 Dec 2015)

It's pronounced 'awdax'* for me, but I've just sat with three people who were discussing an 'owdax'** for next year.
What do you think?

* rhymes with 'raw flax'
** rhymes with 'cow backs'


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## earlestownflya (7 Dec 2015)

it's awdax...they're just trying to be different...like they know something


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## robjh (7 Dec 2015)

earlestownflya said:


> it's awdax...they're just trying to be different...like they know something


It was Cambridge - maybe too much classical education.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Dec 2015)

It's French, no? Oudax (cow backs)


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## robjh (8 Dec 2015)

User said:


> It is one of
> Oar Dacks
> Or Daks
> Awe Dacques


You are clearly non-rhotic


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## ColinJ (8 Dec 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> It's French, no? Oudax (cow backs)


I thought it was Italian -> French -> Everywhere else, and the name comes from the Latin word meaning bold, daring or audacious!


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## Saluki (8 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I thought it was Italian -> French -> Everywhere else, and the name comes from the Latin word meaning bold, daring or audacious!


So does that mean that audacious is now OWdacious?

I have always thought it was AWdax too.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Dec 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I thought it was Italian -> French -> Everywhere else, and the name comes from the Latin word meaning bold, daring or audacious!


Yes, comes from the Latin, means daring, "audace" both in Italian and French.
But audax (plural, probably intended to describe the audacious riders) is not an Italian word, it's a French word. Italian does not have X in the alphabet.


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## growingvegetables (8 Dec 2015)

Aha - a classical thread. Lads and lasses, allow me to parade my pedantry!

Audax - yup, it's Latin. Pronounced aw-dax. As in aurora borealis, audacious, auditor etc. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it - and anyway all them Romans is dead.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Dec 2015)

British pronounce audacious ow-dacious, so, you must say ow-dax too


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## Shaun (8 Dec 2015)

So it's not audi-ax then? Bit like the Mintola camera I once asked to look at in a shop!


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Dec 2015)

growingvegetables said:


> Aha - a classical thread. Lads and lasses, allow me to parade my pedantry!
> 
> Audax - yup, it's Latin. Pronounced aw-dax. As in aurora borealis, audacious, auditor etc. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it - and anyway all them Romans is dead.


I enrolled on a beginners Latin course at my local university. Obviously, me being Italian I had a great advantage, but, omg, the lecturer's pronunciation ... argh!
Of course, hers was right, mine was wrong 
As you said, them Latins are well deid!


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## srw (8 Dec 2015)

growingvegetables said:


> Aha - a classical thread. Lads and lasses, allow me to parade my pedantry!
> 
> Audax - yup, it's Latin. Pronounced aw-dax. As in aurora borealis, audacious, auditor etc. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it - and anyway all them Romans is dead.


The classical Romans probably pronounced it closer to the other way - as far as I know about what we know about classical pronunciation anyway. If you say each vowel individually with an Italian pronunciation, then elide them, you usually come close to what was recommended pronunciation when I was at school.

The AW pronunciation is a British affectation, dating from back when we believed that we owned the world.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Dec 2015)




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## Racing roadkill (8 Dec 2015)

How owdacious.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Dec 2015)

Owdy do


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Dec 2015)

Shaun said:


> So it's not audi-ax then? Bit like the Mintola camera I once asked to look at in a shop!



I had a mental block about the word Gemini for some time. I thought it was pronounced:

(infant school g sound)G-em-eenie.

It took ages for the penny to drop.

As for Audax, I've always gone for Or-dax as the pronunciation.


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## robjh (8 Dec 2015)

srw said:


> The AW pronunciation is a British affectation......


so we should say theclowd and not @theclaud ?


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## Racing roadkill (8 Dec 2015)

robjh said:


> It was Cambridge - maybe too much classical education.



Were they riding fixies? ( probably pronounced fishies).


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## jefmcg (8 Dec 2015)

Google thinks ow-dax with strong emphasis on the x https://translate.google.co.uk/#en/la/audax. I generally hear it said as we pronounce Audacious.

Latin pronunciation is always tricky, there's Church Latin (as the Catholics used to use, and Mel Gibson still does), classical as taught in schools during the height of the British Empire. The there is our best guess as to how the romans spoke it, in Rome. And I imagine there was as much diversity in pronunciation across the Roman Empire as there is of English across the world now.


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## srw (8 Dec 2015)

robjh said:


> so we should say theclowd and not @theclaud ?


Oh yes - if we are Romans of the 1st century CE. But in that case we'd not recognise the aspirated T as a bit of Latin - we'd think of it as a Greek consonant - and we'd have trouble translated the gender-neutrality of the referent "@theclaud" into our own determinedly gendered language and concept set.


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## srw (8 Dec 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I had a mental block about the word Gemini for some time. I thought it was pronounced:
> 
> (infant school g sound)G-em-eenie.


It was - in ancient Rome.


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## Scoosh (8 Dec 2015)

Just ride it    .......    ... etc ...

The next question is - Could you keep the discussion going for a 200, 300, 400 - or even longer ?


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## Dogtrousers (8 Dec 2015)

So, is LEL ellyel or lel?


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## Scoosh (8 Dec 2015)

lol !


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## swansonj (8 Dec 2015)

srw said:


> The classical Romans probably pronounced it closer to the other way - as far as I know about what we know about classical pronunciation anyway. If you say each vowel individually with an Italian pronunciation, then elide them, you usually come close to what was recommended pronunciation when I was at school.
> 
> The AW pronunciation is a British affectation, dating from back when we believed that we owned the world.


I seem to recall that, in Goodbye Mr Chips, one of the issues he fell out with his Headteacher over in the run up to the First World War was a demand to change the Latin pronunciation he taught to match the new understanding of what the ancient Romans did. 

Is this Latin pronunciation you refer to being taught at school before or after that change?


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## srw (8 Dec 2015)

swansonj said:


> I seem to recall that, in Goodbye Mr Chips, one of the issues he fell out with his Headteacher over in the run up to the First World War was a demand to change the Latin pronunciation he taught to match the new understanding of what the ancient Romans did.
> 
> Is this Latin pronunciation you refer to being taught at school before or after that change?


*ahem*
I'm not that old, Dr Swanson.

There was a shift, which must have done for poor old Mr Chips, from English Latin (in which _Caesar adsum jam forte _sounded like a description of Julius's afternoon snack) to Italian Latin (which is what the Catholic church used). There was another shift sometime in the 60s or 70s involving hard C and W for V - so that _veni, vidi, vici_ sounds like wayney weedy weeky. That second one, if I remember correctly, is based on a fair few inscriptions in Greek of Latin names starting with V.

The study of historical Latin pronunciation is a fascinating topic, and a very live one for musicians interested in historically-informed performance practice.


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## Ian H (8 Dec 2015)

Audax United Kingdom was named in homage to Audax Club Parisien, so you might think French pronunciation would apply. My entirely unscientific observations seem to show that many, but not all, older members say 'ow', whereas more of the newer ones say 'or'. There's no obviously animosity between the two groups.


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## Scoosh (8 Dec 2015)

Ian H said:


> There's no obviously animosity between the two groups.


Animosity ??? 
In audax ?? 

Never  - Perish the thought ! 

Audax is all ,  , ,  and  !


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## jonny jeez (8 Dec 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I enrolled on a beginners Latin course at my local university. Obviously, me being Italian I had a great advantage, !


Eh.

But...

Just, Why?


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## Scoosh (8 Dec 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> Eh.
> 
> But...
> 
> Just, Why?


@Pat "5mph" going back to her roots ....


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## Dave 123 (8 Dec 2015)

Having ridden 2 of them and working in a Cambridge college I am obviously well versed in all of it innit?

I think you'll find the correct pronunciation is awe-dax.

If you don't say it like this you ain't no audaxer bruv!


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## Tim Hall (9 Dec 2015)

robjh said:


> You are clearly non-rhotic


He knows his place.


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## Banjo (27 Dec 2015)

Its just a bike ride to me.


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