# Absolute Beginner - looking for advice



## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

Hi all,

I've stumbled across this forum and it seems like a good place to get advice so here goes!

As a bit of background, I'm 34 and looking to get into cycling, having not cycled since I was about 14 or so.

I'm looking to try and get fit, as well as take my 3 year old son out on trips occasionally.

So I'm looking for:
- A multi-purpose bike that is newbie-friendly if such a thing exists.
- Suitable for roads, pathways and very gentle x-country (cycling through woods etc). I'm not going to be doing any major off-raoding or anything like that
- Preferably something that I can attach a kids bike to so that my son can ride behind me (he can't really cycle on his own yet)
- Budget wise, as I'm not sure how much I'll be enjoying it, I don't want to spend ridiculous money. Preferably around £100, certainly less then £200
- I wont be using it to commute to work (it's about 25 miles straight up the M1), so it will be more of a weekend thing.
- In temrs of me, I'm around 5'9, and wieght about 17 stone (hence the wanting to get fit!)

Any ideas?


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## HLaB (13 Jul 2011)

You'll pick up a hybrid that should be able for what you describe. I think the Carrera subway from Halfords starts at your upper budget and from all accounts they are good bike, other ones which are good vfm apparently are ones from Decathlon. Although 2nd hand may be best for that budget. Stick away from bikes of that value from supermarkets and catalogues, they tend to be not just heavy but badly constructed, sometimes dangerously and will not be up to what you describe (they have the tendency to fall apart) buying them is a false economy.

Edit: And Welcome to the forum


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## coffeejo (13 Jul 2011)

Second the vote for a hybrid - mine happily goes through the woods, across fields and down muddy paths. Just remember to stand up on the pedals for the bumpy bits, if you end up with one without suspension


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## the snail (13 Jul 2011)

Sounds like a hybrid type bike would suit you. Personally I'd go for thinner tyres (28/32mm?) and some mudguards. Your budget is low though, I think you will struggle to get anything decent for £200 new (the carreras start at £299?). The cheaper bikes (like halfords apollo ) have a rather poor reputation, so if you want something under 200, 2nd hand would be the best option.


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## numbnuts (13 Jul 2011)

well you have done something right,  to CC


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I know <£200 is a low budget, but I don't want to spend a fortune only to find out that cycling isn't really for me.

I'm in the Borehamwood / Stanmore area of North London, if anyone knows a FLBS :-)


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## andylaw79 (13 Jul 2011)

<shameless_plug>

Got just the bike for you here I'm 5'9" and and about the same weight and it's a cracking bike.

</shameless_plug>


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## mickle (13 Jul 2011)

There is no such thing as a hybrid.


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

Cryptic.....care to expand?


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

Carrera Vulcan my bike, has been bulletproof so far, haven't done anything too silly with it though. V-brakes are mechanically simple and trigger shifters are way better than grip shifts! This bike comes with knobbly tyres though and front suspension with no lockout so not the best choice for riding on roads. I swapped my tyres for Double Fighters which give me a lower rolling resistance on the road yet still retain some useful offroad ability.

As for your son, my sister used a Trail Gator with her two boys, not tried it myself but apparently it folds away so they can ride along on their own (using their own bike), then when they get tired you just unfold, attach to their bike and you tow them along.


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Not the kind of thing anyone on this forum would ever say but you might be best advised buying a cheap bike off ebay - you can pick serviceable secondhand bikes up for £10 to £20. Id estimate about a 19 - 20 inch frame mountain bike would suit, hybrid bikes are more expensive even second hand. Then if you get hooked you can investigate buying something better - as hlab observed decathalon are well regarded.


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## mickle (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Cryptic.....care to expand?



I've just managed to write a book on cycling without mentioning the H word once. There is no such thing - it's a name dreamed up by marketing gimps and has no meaning. 

People whi jump to the defence of the word will say that it combines parts from road (touring) bikes and mountain bikes - hence hybrid. But mountain bikes used parts developed for tandems, and road bikes and BMX. That doesn't make them hybrids. 

Show me any bike and I'll tell you into what category it falls. And it wont be a hybrid.


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## mightyquin (13 Jul 2011)

Stretch the budget a little and consider this http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dew-city-2011-hybrid-bike-ec027214 or this http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...home&utm_content=offers&utm_campaign=REVTRA11

Don't buy anything new for around £100 unless it's from Decathlon.


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## mightyquin (13 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> I've just managed to write a book on cycling without mentioning the H word once. There is no such thing - it's a name dreamed up by marketing gimps and has no meaning.
> 
> People whi jump to the defence of the word will say that it combines parts from road (touring) bikes and mountain bikes - hence hybrid. But mountain bikes used parts developed for tandems, and road bikes and BMX. That doesn't make them hybrids.
> 
> Show me any bike and I'll tell you into what category it falls. And it wont be a hybrid.



Interesting. When I first looked for advice for buying a bike for general use, I was mostly advised to buy a 'Hybrid' although a few people said it's better to decide on your priority and go for a road or mountain bike (MTB for the benefit of the OP). I became interested in single speed bikes and went for a road SS which was a good choice for me, and as it happens a friend gave me a Decathlon 'MTB' they didn't want. 

My old Raleigh MTB (bought early 90's I think) is basically what are now termed 'hybrids' but with 26" wheels, whereas it seems virtually all MTB's now have suspension. 

Perhaps Compromise Bike would be a better term than Hybrid? Of course the marketing guys will never have that!


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> I've just managed to write a book on cycling without mentioning the H word once. There is no such thing - it's a name dreamed up by marketing gimps and has no meaning.
> 
> People whi jump to the defence of the word will say that it combines parts from road (touring) bikes and mountain bikes - hence hybrid. But mountain bikes used parts developed for tandems, and road bikes and BMX. That doesn't make them hybrids.
> 
> Show me any bike and I'll tell you into what category it falls. And it wont be a hybrid.


I agree - lots of rubbish spoken for lots of reasons.
My bike is called an apollo mountain bike but except for the mountainbike style wheels and tyres its a town bike. A town bike with "odd" wheels/tyres on it. Or am i missing something.


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Not the kind of thing anyone on this forum would ever say but you might be best advised buying a cheap bike off ebay - you can pick serviceable secondhand bikes up for £10 to £20. Id estimate about a 19 - 20 inch frame mountain bike would suit, hybrid bikes are more expensive even second hand. Then if you get hooked you can investigate buying something better - as hlab observed decathalon are well regarded.




My only issue with this is if I get a real dud, it could completely put me off cycling.

Which I guess is the same issue with buying a cheapy anyway - hmmmm


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Hi - if you can get over to watford i can sell you this for £30.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Its a raleigh nitro - and is as good as you could want. I would say like new but i cant remember tbh as its been down my parents for years incase i ever needed it.
I think its called a mountain bike but in reality its a town bike with nobbly tyres.
You probably wont be interested but as a general principal this is the kind of thing that is readily available.


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Not the kind of thing anyone on this forum would ever say but you might be best advised buying a cheap bike off ebay - you can pick serviceable secondhand bikes up for £10 to £20



... people here regularly recommend a used bike, saying that you will get a good quality used bike for the same price as a new BSO


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> I agree - lots of rubbish spoken for lots of reasons.
> My bike is called an apollo mountain bike but except for the mountainbike style wheels and tyres its a town bike. A town bike with "odd" wheels/tyres on it. Or am i missing something.



To me a hybrid is a MTB type frame and bars, rigid fork, road bike wheels and slicks, and more of a road-bike gear ratio.


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## coffeejo (13 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> I've just managed to write a book on cycling without mentioning the H word once. There is no such thing - it's a name dreamed up by marketing gimps and has no meaning.
> 
> People whi jump to the defence of the word will say that it combines parts from road (touring) bikes and mountain bikes - hence hybrid. But mountain bikes used parts developed for tandems, and road bikes and BMX. That doesn't make them hybrids.
> 
> Show me any bike and I'll tell you into what category it falls. And it wont be a hybrid.



From a technical point of view, I'm sure you're correct. But given the broad range of bikes that are available, the term has meaning for beginners/newbies like myself who don't know the difference between the different makes and models and who simply want "a bike". It might be a marketing ploy, but if it gets people on their bikes, surely it's a good thing?


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

Take a look at something like this. Hybrid is an often misused term but it paints a rough picture of what you are after.


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> To me a hybrid is a MTB type frame and bars, rigid fork, road bike wheels and slicks, and more of a road-bike gear ratio.


What characterises a mountainbike type frame ?


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> To me a hybrid is a MTB type frame and bars, rigid fork, road bike wheels and slicks, and more of a road-bike gear ratio.



Probably touring size rather than race size ratios IMHO


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> ... people here regularly recommend a used bike, saying that you will get a good quality used bike for the same price as a new BSO




BSO?


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> BSO?


Stands for "bike shaped object". A derogatory term used by certain kind of person towards cheaper bikes.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> BSO?



Bike Shaped Object. Contentious issue but generally used to describe a bike bought from somewhere like Asda or Tesco.


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## HLaB (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> BSO?



A Bike Shaped Object, it basically a bike out of a supermarket/ catalogue or the like that resembles a bike but is not fit for the purpose of cycling.

Three almost identical posts :-)


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> A Bike Shaped Object, it basically a bike out of a supermarket/ catalogue or the like that resembles a bike but is not fit for the purpose of cycling.
> 
> Three almost identical posts :-)


Almost - i was also attempting to hint at the arrogance and conceipt that is intrinsic in its use.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Almost - i was also attempting to hint at the arrogance and conceipt that is intrinsic in its use.



Don;t think this is the place. We have a BSO thread do we not?


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## mickle (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Almost - i was also attempting to hint at the arrogance and conceipt that is intrinsic in its use.



The thing is, unless you've worked in a busy bike shop and witnessed the trouble that so very many people have with BSOs I'm not sure you can appreciate how much truth there is in the description.

Most of us regular bicyclists would agree that any bum on any bike seat is A Good Thing, the trouble is that cheap, heavy, unreliable and uncomfortable BSOs with shoot brakes tell newbies only that cycling is difficult, painful and dangerous.

shoot bikes - rather than encouraging people to cycle, actually makes the task of persuading people to ride bikes more difficult.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> The thing is, unless you've worked in a busy bike shop and witnessed the trouble that so very many people have with BSOs I'm not sure you can appreciate how much truth there is in the description.
> 
> Most of us regular bicyclists would agree that any bum on any bike seat is A Good Thing, the trouble is that cheap, heavy, unreliable and uncomfortable BSOs with shoot brakes tell newbies only that cycling is difficult, painful and dangerous.
> 
> shoot bikes - rather than encouraging people to cycle, actually makes the task of persuading people to ride bikes more difficult.



I agree - My neighbour is 20 years my junior. He goes to the gym a few days a week and rides back and fore. That is all he can ride however - After 4 mile his is exhausted. I am sure it is because he has a full sus BOS rather than his being completely unfit.


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Don;t think this is the place. We have a BSO thread do we not?


Indeed. Aplogies to all .


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Indeed. Aplogies to all .



No need to apologies - Just don't want to scare a newbie away


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Stands for "bike shaped object". A derogatory term used by certain kind of person towards cheaper bikes.



not cheaper bikes (here we go again...)


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Probably touring size rather than race size ratios IMHO



True


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I agree - My neighbour is 20 years my junior. He goes to the gym a few days a week and rides back and fore. That is all he can ride however - After 4 mile his is exhausted. I am sure it is because he has a full sus BOS rather than his being completely unfit.


I question that.
If i went to the gym i would feel nackered after 5 minutes but i cycled from watford to catford and back yesterday on my bso. I suspect people feel nackered when they feel like feeling nackered - the bike is a side issue.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> True



That was teh thing I loved about my Apollo. It had touring gears. On the flat I was untouchable. On the hills I was unmovable


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Almost - i was also attempting to hint at the arrogance and conceipt that is intrinsic in its use.



I ride a bottom of the range Carrera, no arrogance or conceit from me...


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> I question that.
> If i went to the gym i would feel nackered after 5 minutes but i cycled from watford to catford and back yesterday on my bso. I suspect people feel nackered when they feel like feeling nackered - the bike is a side issue.



I know the lad and his fitness level so I base the comment on that.


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> What characterises a mountainbike type frame ?



One that looks like a MTB?


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> One that looks like a MTB?



but not one that is MTBFSO (MTB Frame Shaped Object)


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

Ok.....

Now I'm more confused then ever.......


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> No need to apologies - Just don't want to scare a newbie away


Think the avatar may have done that allready


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## HLaB (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Ok.....
> 
> Now I'm more confused then ever.......



Don't worry so am I


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Ok.....
> 
> Now I'm more confused then ever.......



Neil. You have done the most important thing which is to define what type of riding you want to do. Either a Hybrid (or Town Bike) or a 2nd hand hardtail or rigid MTB will do you just fine. Do not buy cycling magazines as you will think you need to spend £1000's to achieve what you want to achieve. The chap who posted the bike for sale is in the ball park. At the end of the day it's what feels right to you.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Think the avatar may have done that allready



Mine or yours


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Mine or yours


Lets leave that open to debvate.
If all this has proven one thing then it has to be that the term bso is not appropriate to use with newbies - it is not helpful and just serves to confuses. Imho the term, if it has to be used at all should only be used between cycling supremicists in private behind closed doors.
And good luck with the bike searching neil - dont be deterred.


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## NeilEB (13 Jul 2011)

To be honest, whilst the term BSO might not be helpful, the idea to steer well clear of Tesco's is very helpful, as that was one of my next questions!

Ok, so I'm thinking that rather then buy a cheap brand new bike, it might be better to go for a 'better' second hand bike - getting more for my money? As long as the seller is reputable? That's part of my issue, not trusting second hand purchases!!


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## mickle (13 Jul 2011)

The ancient Taiwanese phalafeliser Confuseus say; If you're going to sit on a high horse make sure your saddle is at the right angle'


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> To be honest, whilst the term BSO might not be helpful, the idea to steer well clear of Tesco's is very helpful, as that was one of my next questions!
> 
> Ok, so I'm thinking that rather then buy a cheap brand new bike, it might be better to go for a 'better' second hand bike - getting more for my money? As long as the seller is reputable? That's part of my issue, not trusting second hand purchases!!



Where do you live?


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> To be honest, whilst the term BSO might not be helpful, the idea to steer well clear of Tesco's is very helpful, as that was one of my next questions!
> 
> Ok, so I'm thinking that rather then buy a cheap brand new bike, it might be better to go for a 'better' second hand bike - getting more for my money? As long as the seller is reputable? That's part of my issue, not trusting second hand purchases!!


Re - the issues involved in buying anything 2nd hand. Obviously helps if youve got a little experience with bikes but mainly its a case of common sense , checking it out etc , its not rocket science after all. People are still generally pretty honest and any faults should be either stated if known or if the bike is untested it will be stated that it is untested.
If you are not comfortable with buying 2nd hand and are happy to spend £100 + then you might be best advised to have a look at what decathalon offer. 
The 2nd hand bike you will prospectively be buying may well be from someone who didnt fancy buying 2nd hand so went out and bought a new one and then found they didnt like cycling after all = bargain for somebody.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Re - the issues involved in buying anything 2nd hand. Obviously helps if youve got a little experience with bikes but mainly its a case of common sense , checking it out etc , its not rocket science after all. People are still generally pretty honest and any faults should be either stated if known or if the bike is untested it will be stated that it is untested.
> If you are not comfortable with buying 2nd hand and are happy to spend £100 + then you might be best advised to have a look at what decathalon offer.
> The 2nd hand bike you will prospectively be buying may well be from someone who didnt fancy buying 2nd hand so went out and bought a new one and then found they didnt like cycling after all = bargain for somebody.



This we agree on


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> The ancient Taiwanese phalafeliser Confuseus say; If you're going to sit on a high horse make sure your saddle is at the right angle'


Unfortunately confuscious has cheap dodgy bso seat that wont stay in position. Confuscious try and fink of solution.


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Re - the issues involved in buying anything 2nd hand. Obviously helps if youve got a little experience with bikes but mainly its a case of common sense , checking it out etc , its not rocket science after all. People are still generally pretty honest and any faults should be either stated if known or if the bike is untested it will be stated that it is untested.
> If you are not comfortable with buying 2nd hand and are happy to spend £100 + then you might be best advised to have a look at what decathalon offer.
> The 2nd hand bike you will prospectively be buying may well be from someone who didnt fancy buying 2nd hand so went out and bought a new one and then found they didnt like cycling after all = bargain for somebody.



Sounds like sensible advice to me. I've not bought a used bike (I've only bought one bike for myself lol) but I have been looking around.

Personally I say find one you like the look of, then come back on here and ask for opinions on it. You'll get a pretty honest and unbiased one I reckon. You might even get some advice as to what questions to ask the seller


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Sounds like sensible advice to me. I've not bought a used bike (I've only bought one bike for myself lol) but I have been looking around.
> 
> Personally I say find one you like the look of, then come back on here and ask for opinions on it. You'll get a pretty honest and unbiased one I reckon. You might even get some advice as to what questions to ask the seller



Although there might be disagreement about those questions


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Although there might be disagreement about those questions


Top of the list has to be "is this bike a bso ?"
Closely followed by how recently have you got out of prison my good man.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Top of the list has to be "is this bike a bso ?"
> Closely followed by how recently have you got out of prison my good man.



No, no, no.

Where was it nicked from should be the first question.


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> No, no, no.
> 
> Where was it nicked from should be the first question.


See weve fallen out of agreement allready.
For the discerning buyer thats prepared to wait a short while i hear theres a Viking Giro D'italia expected on the market soon.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> See weve fallen out of agreement allready.
> For the discerning buyer thats prepared to wait a short while i hear theres a Viking Giro D'italia expected on the market soon.



Not that soon I hope


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## rowan 46 (13 Jul 2011)

The term hybrid may be a misnomer to cyclists but as it's a marketing term if you go into your local bike shop they will know what you mean. We have had a thread about cheap bikes and their problems and it was generally agreed if they are set up by a bike shop you will get some service from them. If you go to one of the smaller bike shops you may get something for the price but I will add this proviso it will not be a great bike. the quality of a bike is dependant on the quality of its components. Your price will not allow for quality components. as to 2nd hand if you are a rank beginner it's tricky buying from ebay as you don't know if it fits, it's difficult to spot whether it's properly maintained. the problem is if it's a good one on ebay you will have lots of bidders on it so you will not get it for the best price io you need to be pretty aufait with bikes to get a good one for a good price on ebay. Go to your bike shop see what fits get the the most expensive you can afford at your price point. You will not get a great bike but you will get one that fits, one that's set up properly and a guarantee of 12 months this will give you time to assess whether cycling is for you.


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## corshamjim (13 Jul 2011)

My favourite sub-200 bike at the moment is this one:

http://www.sportsdirect.com/muddyfox-phatsta-city-bike-933042

Not a lot to go wrong there and I should think would be a lot of fun.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

corshamjim said:


> My favourite sub-200 bike at the moment is this one:
> 
> http://www.sportsdir...ity-bike-933042
> 
> Not a lot to go wrong there and I should think would be a lot of fun.



Not sure about "Available in a 19 inch frame size. *Suitable for inside leg: 28 - 35 inches*."
Other than that I agree it looks like a blast


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

corshamjim said:


> My favourite sub-200 bike at the moment is this one:
> 
> http://www.sportsdir...ity-bike-933042
> 
> Not a lot to go wrong there and I should think would be a lot of fun.


Looks nice.
I would expect City bike to have mudguards.
The profit margins must be huge on these bikes let alone the 1K+ ones.


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## abo (13 Jul 2011)

corshamjim said:


> My favourite sub-200 bike at the moment is this one:
> 
> http://www.sportsdir...ity-bike-933042
> 
> Not a lot to go wrong there and I should think would be a lot of fun.



Wouldn't mind seeing one of those in the flesh as it were, looks ok


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

Neil
Eg :
Ebay
item number: 280705581744 
21 inch frame 26 inch wheels.
might be a bit farther than youd want to go from bhwood.
Probably sell for £20 to £25 because of tdf - otherwise £10 to £15 .
Nothing to do with me i hasten to point out.


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## apollo179 (13 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Sounds like sensible advice to me. I've not bought a used bike (I've only bought one bike for myself lol) but I have been looking around.
> 
> Personally I say find one you like the look of, then come back on here and ask for opinions on it. You'll get a pretty honest and unbiased one I reckon. You might even get some advice as to what questions to ask the seller


What do you think ?
Ebay
item number: 280705581744


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## Norm (13 Jul 2011)

coffeejo said:


> From a technical point of view, I'm sure you're correct. But given the broad range of bikes that are available, the term has meaning for beginners/newbies like myself who don't know the difference between the different makes and models and who simply want "a bike". It might be a marketing ploy, but if it gets people on their bikes, surely it's a good thing?


 No, IMO, because it covers too broad a range. Say hybrid and some will see something with 45mm tyres and suspension whereas others will see 25mm tyres and bars about 300mm wide.



rowan 46 said:


> The term hybrid may be a misnomer to cyclists but as it's a marketing term if you go into your local bike shop they will know what you mean.


 The word" hybrid" is used for such a diverse range of bikes that it is completely meaningless - just about anything with flat bars has been called a hybrid, from a lightweight racing frame with 23mm tyres and no gears to a heavy duty unsuspended MTB with chunky 45mm rubber.

Avoid the word and you will avoid the confusion.

Here's something I've posted previously. Check out the three bikes in the link, all described as "hybrid"...


Norm said:


> And the reason that I *despise* the word hybrid, which manages to be meaningless, useless and positively harmful at times. These three are all described as "hybrids" and they range from the Spec Crosstrail, a rigid mountain bike which would be good on all surfaces, to the Charge Mixer, which would struggle on even rough tarmac.


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## mightyquin (13 Jul 2011)

I was a 'returning after a long break and ignorant to latest cycle trends' newbie earlier this year. My immediate thought was just by a cheap MTB, so I can understand why lots of newbies think that way, but I read up some on forums and the like and spoke to a few LBS's and soon changed my mind.

I was wary of buying s/h for the same reasons, i.e. not knowing if I'd be buying a decent bike, spotting faults etc., but after narrowing my choice down to a few models I happened to see one of the bikes going on e bay, not only that but it had some very nice upgrades too (wheels, carbon fork and seatpost) and I got it for a great price - so you can find bargains out there. 

There are plenty of places that sell refurbished s/h bikes too, so you're buying from a dealer and have the same comeback as for a new bike - almost. 

However, it's worth considering, if you end up keeping and using the bike regularly, the chances are that you will need to replace things like tyres, cables, wheels, brake pads, chain on your cheaper s/h bike, so bear the added longer term cost in mind.


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

mightyquin said:


> I was a 'returning after a long break and ignorant to latest cycle trends' newbie earlier this year. My immediate thought was just by a cheap MTB, so I can understand why lots of newbies think that way, but I read up some on forums and the like and spoke to a few LBS's and soon changed my mind.
> 
> I was wary of buying s/h for the same reasons, i.e. not knowing if I'd be buying a decent bike, spotting faults etc., but after narrowing my choice down to a few models I happened to see one of the bikes going on e bay, not only that but it had some very nice upgrades too (wheels, carbon fork and seatpost) and I got it for a great price - so you can find bargains out there.
> 
> ...


FTFY


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## mightyquin (13 Jul 2011)

Of course, sooner, thank you


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## Angelfishsolo (13 Jul 2011)

mightyquin said:


> Of course, sooner, thank you


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## apollo179 (14 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Neil
> Eg :
> Ebay
> item number: 280705581744
> ...


I overestimated sale price - sold for £8-27




Uploaded with ImageShack.us
For this money you cant go wrong.


----------



## NeilEB (14 Jul 2011)

I'm going to take a trip to Evans tomorrow to see what they recommend (need some stabilizers for my sons bike anyway). 
No doubt I'll be back on here with more questions after that trip :-)


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## abo (14 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> (need some stabilizers for my sons bike anyway).



Nooo! They're the worst thing in the world, I reckon theyr eally did hold back my eldest two. My youngest is on a balance bike now and is getting ready to move onto his first pedal bike - without stabilizers.

Honestly, have a look at a balance bike instead


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## Angelfishsolo (14 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Nooo! They're the worst thing in the world, I reckon theyr eally did hold back my eldest two. My youngest is on a balance bike now and is getting ready to move onto his first pedal bike - without stabilizers.
> 
> Honestly, have a look at a balance bike instead


I agree. Learning to ride with stabilizers is like learning to read by phonetics.


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## NeilEB (14 Jul 2011)

Balance bike? Am I completely stupid? What are they?


----------



## NeilEB (14 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I agree. Learning to ride with stabilizers is like learning to read by phonetics.



Erm, isn't that how kids learn to read these days? My son's only 3 so not reading just yet


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## Angelfishsolo (14 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Erm, isn't that how kids learn to read these days? My son's only 3 so not reading just yet


If it is then it is a highly retrograde step. Was around in the 70's and died a death.
Just google "Balance Bike". It is a bike without pedals that promotes balance skills.


----------



## Norm (14 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Just google "Balance Bike". It is a bike without pedals that promotes balance skills.


 Not necessarily, it could be your son's current bike with the pedals removed.


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## Angelfishsolo (14 Jul 2011)

Norm said:


> Not necessarily, it could be your son's current bike with the pedals removed.


Only problem is the cranks could hit little legs


----------



## TheBoyBilly (15 Jul 2011)

Stretch your budget.........2011 Kona Dew £225 (£100 off) @ Evans

Don't faff about with inferior rubbish, please.


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## abo (15 Jul 2011)

Norm said:


> Not necessarily, it could be your son's current bike with the pedals removed.



Heh that's what we did with my daughter in the end, whipped the stabilizers and the pedals off. She was riding without stabilizers (with pedals) that same day. Hence we avoided them completely for my youngest and went for a balance bike


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## NeilEB (15 Jul 2011)

TheBoyBilly said:


> Stretch your budget.........2011 Kona Dew £225 (£100 off) @ Evans
> 
> Don't faff about with inferior rubbish, please.



You mean this one ?
Tiny bit more then I wanted to spend, but I'll take a look at it when I go to Evans in a few hours.

What say the rest of you?

Oh, also definitely looking at the balance bike for my son - we were looking at youtube videos today and he seems keen. Any idea why they range from £30 to over £100?


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## mickle (15 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I agree. Learning to ride with stabilizers is like learning to read by phonetics.



Dident do me eny harm.


----------



## HLaB (15 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> You mean this one ?
> Tiny bit more then I wanted to spend, but I'll take a look at it when I go to Evans in a few hours.
> 
> What say the rest of you?



Looks a good bike for the money


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## Angelfishsolo (15 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> Dident do me eny harm.



wen i triyd it i wood spel things rong al of the time


----------



## mickle (15 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> Looks a good bike for the money



+1


----------



## RossM (15 Jul 2011)

OP - have you looked into whether your work do a cycle to work scheme ? Would enable you to increase your budget without actually spending more money - sounds weird I know but look into it.

If you're not sure if you're going to enjoy it, why not ask around about borrowing a bike. loads of people have bikes knocking around in garages that are never used. That way you can find out if you enjoy it without spending any money !


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## NeilEB (15 Jul 2011)

Not really sure I can do the cycle to work scheme as I wont be using it to commute - I think a 50 mile round trip just isn't achievable.


----------



## abo (15 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Not really sure I can do the cycle to work scheme as I wont be using it to commute - I think a 50 mile round trip just isn't achievable.



Who's to know?


----------



## Evil Rabbit (16 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Not really sure I can do the cycle to work scheme as I wont be using it to commute - I think a 50 mile round trip just isn't achievable.


There is no actual rule or check that it has to be used for commuting. I would have thought less than half the bikes bought on the scheme are!


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## NeilEB (16 Jul 2011)

My work scheme says it has to be used for at least 50% of your commute.

Anyway it's a bit moot as I hope to be changing job (and country) soon, so wouldn't be able to pay it back.

And I've ordered this one:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dew-city-frr-2011-hybrid-bike-ec027215?query=kona

Waiting for it to be delivered and I'll take it out for a test ride


----------



## Angelfishsolo (16 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> My work scheme says it has to be used for at least 50% of your commute.
> 
> Anyway it's a bit moot as I hope to be changing job (and country) soon, so wouldn't be able to pay it back.
> 
> ...



Good choice


----------



## abo (16 Jul 2011)

Looks ideal! How long is delivery?


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## NeilEB (16 Jul 2011)

Sometime this week, but I'll be in Manchester for a few days, so probably next weekend


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

For future reference anyone looking for a competitively priced new bike might consider looking at argos.
Muddyfox for £79.99




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## mickle (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> For future reference anyone looking for a competitively priced new bike might consider looking at argos.
> Muddyfox for £79.99
> 
> 
> ...



Are you serious? If so what experience do you have of this bike that you can recommend it. It looks no different to any other nasty cheap bike to me.


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> Are you serious? If so what experience do you have of this bike that you can recommend it. It looks no different to any other nasty cheap bike to me.



Mickle You are 100% right it is a BSO. I have had the displeasure of having to tinker with one of these. Same build quality as a Asda bike, cheese metal, made from lead.

This is the full spec.


*Muddyfox Turbulent 26 inch Mountain Bike - Men's.*
If you are looking to go off-road, trail riding or just want a reliable and versatile bike for getting round town this hardtail Mountain Bike is perfect. The Muddyfox Turbulent Mountain Bike has a front suspension fork for a smoother ride.


Blue steel frame.
21 gears with twist-grip shifters.
Shimano gears.
Front V-type and rear V-type brakes.
Front suspension.
Weight fully assembled 18kg.
66cm / 26 inch wheel size.
Suitable from 74 to 89cm inside leg measurement.
Mountain bike style tyres.
Adjustable handlebar height.
Adjustable seat height.
Additional features:

General information:


Some assembly required to fit front wheel, adjust brakes, fit pedals, saddle and handlebars.
Click on image for a video of assembly instructions.
Tools and instructions included.


----------



## HLaB (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Mickle You are 100% right it is a BSO. I have had the displeasure of having to tinker with one of these. Same build quality as a Asda bike, cheese metal, made from lead.
> 
> This is the full spec.
> 
> ...


Its a very good bike, a very good example of a BSO on its plus side though it does have a


> Adjustable seat height.


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> Its a very good bike, a very good example of a BSO on its plus side though it does have a


It also has "adjustable handle bar height". So spacer or quill stem!


----------



## HLaB (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> It also has "adjustable handle bar height". So spacer or quill stem!



I've not done it since I was a kid but I think you can loosen the lock rings on a quill stem, raise it a little and re-tighten.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> I've not done it since I was a kid but I think you can loosen the lock rings on a quill stem, raise it a little and re-tighten.


Yep. Undo allan nut twist stem to lift it and retighten. Very old skool for a MTB!


----------



## Yaz (24 Jul 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Erm, isn't that how kids learn to read these days? My son's only 3 so not reading just yet




My grandaughter was riding her 2 wheeler just after her 4th birthday and although I thought my daughter was daft spending so much money on a balance bike but it certainly gave her the confidence. She is 5 years old and now cycles regularly with her dad and its so lovely to see.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> Are you serious? If so what experience do you have of this bike that you can recommend it. It looks no different to any other nasty cheap bike to me.



Mickle - ive briefly rode one and for a cheap bike i thought it was ok thats why i posted. You may be right compared to what most on this forum ride it isnt very good. 
However good or bad, what i dont understand is why owners of expensive bikes feel to the need to mock and deride cheap bikes.
Personally i think its fine if the public enjoys the experience of cycling on an old cheap bike and i think its also fine if mr "serious" cyclists enjoys dressing up in lycra and pretending hes Eddie Merkyx for the afternoon. 
Re quill stems - wiki says "they remain standard on the majority of utility bikes regardless of price as well as less expensive sport bikes and higher-end retro bikes."
So tbh i dont get the joke.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Mickle - ive briefly rode one and for a cheap bike i thought it was ok thats why i posted. You may be right compared to what most on this forum ride it isnt very good.
> However good or bad, what i dont understand is why owners of expensive bikes feel to the need to mock and deride cheap bikes.
> Personally i think its fine if the public enjoys the experience of cycling on an old cheap bike and i think its also fine if mr "serious" cyclists enjoys dressing up in lycra and pretending hes Eddie Merkyx for the afternoon.
> Re quill stems - wiki says "they remain standard on the majority of utility bikes regardless of price as well as less expensive sport bikes and higher-end retro bikes."
> So tbh i dont get the joke.


Appolo - It is sold as a MTB. It is not one. It is a BSO. Quill stems on a MTB are like cross ply tyres on a car.


----------



## HLaB (24 Jul 2011)

My Ridgeback velocity has a quill stem and quite a few other bikes do on its own its not a bad thing but putting all the other things described and its that argos bike is a BSO. Briefly riding a bike doesn't tell you much about it IMHO


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> My Ridgeback velocity has a quill stem and quite a few other bikes do on its own its not a bad thing but putting all the other things described and its a BSO. Briefly riding a bike doesn't tell you much about it IMHO


Is the Ridgeback a MTB? I know Town Bikes use them a lot and on such bikes they are not an issue. On a MTB [ridden of road] one is forever having to realign the wheel and bars.


----------



## HLaB (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Is the Ridgeback a MTB? I know Town Bikes use them a lot and on such bikes they are not an issue. On a MTB [ridden of road] one is forever having to realign the wheel and bars.




My velocity is a town bike but Ridgeback make a range of bikes from mtb to tourer but I wouln't be surprise if their Mtb's have aheadsets.


Edit: it doesnt look like they've change much since I bought mine.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> My velocity is a town bike but Ridgeback make a range of bikes from mtb to tourer but I wouln't be surprise if their Mtb's have aheadsets.


That's ok then. Thought I had stepped into an alternate dimention for a sec


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> My velocity is a town bike but Ridgeback make a range of bikes from mtb to tourer but I wouln't be surprise if their Mtb's have aheadsets.
> 
> 
> Edit: it doesnt look like they've change much since I bought mine.


I have to say if I was after a town bike it would be a Ridgeback. They ride so well and are a dream to work on


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

HLaB said:


> My velocity is a town bike but Ridgeback make a range of bikes from mtb to tourer but I wouln't be surprise if their Mtb's have aheadsets.
> 
> 
> Edit: it doesnt look like they've change much since I bought mine.


I have to say if I was after a town bike it would be a Ridgeback. They ride so well and are a dream to work on


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Appolo - It is sold as a MTB. It is not one. It is a BSO. Quill stems on a MTB are like cross ply tyres on a car.



Regardless of nomenclature.
These cheap rubbish bikes are what we all learnt on and what , apart from the lofty few with their £xK bikes, they are what most people use today. These cheap rubbish bikes are in fact the life blood of cycling and it dosnt behove anyone to sneer at them.
For you or i to deride cheap bikes is like the queen turning to prince philip and saying about you or me - look at that man in his grotty little hso. Earth to queen - thats how we all live and it dosnt behove us to throw stones in our own shared glasshouse.
I just think some degree of respect and acknowledgement is due.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Regardless of nomenclature.
> These cheap rubbish bikes are what we all learnt on and what , apart from the lofty few with their £xK bikes, they are what most people use today. These cheap rubbish bikes are in fact the life blood of cycling and it dosnt behove anyone to sneer at them.
> For you or i to deride cheap bikes is like the queen turning to prince philip and saying about you or me - look at that man in his grotty little hso. Earth to queen - thats how we all live and it dosnt behove us to throw stones in our own shared glasshouse.
> I just think some degree of respect and acknowledgement is due.


I refuse to give any respect to a bike that is made to look like something it is not. It is not fit for purpose as a MTB. As for snobbary I have a £200 road bike that is not a BSO and a £1400 MTB. Price is not the issue. Fitness for purpose is. If it akin to a festival tent. You can get one for under £20 and are great, until it rains and you realise why you should have paid for a double skined tent.


----------



## abo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Regardless of nomenclature.
> These cheap rubbish bikes are what we all learnt on and what , apart from the lofty few with their £xK bikes, they are what most people use today. These cheap rubbish bikes are in fact the life blood of cycling and it dosnt behove anyone to sneer at them.
> For you or i to deride cheap bikes is like the queen turning to prince philip and saying about you or me - look at that man in his grotty little hso. Earth to queen - thats how we all live and it dosnt behove us to throw stones in our own shared glasshouse.
> I just think some degree of respect and acknowledgement is due.



****in hell here we go again, can we get off it in this thread please? We all did it to death last week...


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> ****in hell here we go again, can we get off it in this thread please? We all did it to death last week...


Amen to that. The BSO thread is still open I believe.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> ****in hell here we go again, can we get off it in this thread please? We all did it to death last week...


We all thought it was dead but like Arnold Schzwartsenager in the terminator its come back to life. Everybody run for your lives.
Astella vista afs.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> We all thought it was dead but like Arnold Schzwartsenager in the terminator its come back to life. Everybody run for your lives.
> Astella vista afs.


Why quote abo and then use my nickname at the end of your post?


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Why quote abo and then use my nickname at the end of your post?


What do you mean - is it against protocol or something. Is it against the rules to kill 2 birds with the one post.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> What do you mean - is it against protocol or something. Is it against the rules to kill 2 birds with the one post.


It just looks like you've confused the quote and the author.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> It just looks like you've confused the quote and the author.



No - i tend to combine replies in one post unless theres a pressing reason to individualise.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> No - i tend to combine replies in one post unless theres a pressing reason to individualise.



The OP joined a cycling forum to ask advice about buying a bike which he has now done. To suggest a BSO as an alternative to a good cheap bike shows a fundimental lack of understanding regarding the subject.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The OP joined a cycling forum to ask advice about buying a bike which he has now done. To suggest a BSO as an alternative to a good cheap bike shows a fundimental lack of understanding regarding the subject.


I didnt suggest a bso as an alternative to a good cheap bike. Your interpretation that i did suggests a fundamental lack of understanding on your part.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> I didnt suggest a bso as an alternative to a good cheap bike. Your interpretation that i did suggests a fundamental lack of understanding on your part.


You classed a Muddy Fox as a "competitively priced" bike. Competative means "in competition with". Why else post this bike in this topic?


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> You classed a Muddy Fox as a "competitively priced" bike. Competative means "in competition with". Why else post this bike in this topic?


The price is competitive , there is no mention that the bike is competitive.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> The price is competitive , there is no mention that the bike is competitive.


What a bizzare answer. "I'm looking for a cheep sports car" "That 950cc fiesta is competitivly priced". WTF?


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> What a bizzare answer. "I'm looking for a cheep sports car" "That 950cc fiesta is competitivly priced". WTF?



Exactly it is only comparable to bikes that are comparable - i didnt compare a bso (as you call it) to a good cheap bike. I didnt compare it with anything. I just said the price was competitive. It is only competitive with bikes within its price bracket and the op was fishing in a completely different price pond.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Exactly it is only comparable to bikes that are comparable - i didnt compare a bso (as you call it) to a good cheap bike. I didnt compare it with anything. I just said the price was competitive. It is only competitive with bikes within its price bracket and the op was fishing in a completely different price pond.


So it was a competativly priced BSO. The OP was looking at the £100-£200 mark and so your post implied the bike was a valid choice.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> So it was a competativly priced BSO. The OP was looking at the £100-£200 mark and so your post implied the bike was a valid choice.


My post implied it was a valid choice for anyone looking for a competitively priced new bike , by definition in that price bracket . Thereby not competing re the ops original remit.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> My post implied it was a valid choice for anyone looking for a competitively priced new bike , by definition in that price bracket . Thereby not competing re the ops original remit.


Then I am sorry but you have no idea about bikes.


----------



## abo (24 Jul 2011)

****ing hell, it appears apollo179 posted details of a shoot bike in order to provoke a reaction. Do you post on usenet too?


----------



## peelywally (24 Jul 2011)

hang on to you £200 quid maybe add to it and keep an eye on local bike shops for ex display end of line bikes ive seen some cracking bargains go this way ,


one was a flat bar fixie a right stoater marvic whells fso crank fizik seat the works =£240 same place had giant touring bikes same price ,

i heard today of a place in paisley selling full carbon road bike never out the shop for £1000 dead retail price £2500 .




keep looking and dont be in a hurry it might pay off .


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> ****ing hell, it appears apollo179 posted details of a shoot bike in order to provoke a reaction. Do you post on usenet too?


Whats usenet ?


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Then I am sorry but you have no idea about bikes.


Presumably that is the default judgement for anyone that holds an opinion different from your own.


----------



## peelywally (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Whats usenet ?



its like skynet ,


beware the terminators


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Presumably that is the default judgement for anyone that holds an opinion different from your own.


No. Default judgement on anyone who would suggest a Muddy Fox on a cycling forum.


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> No. Default judgement on anyone who would suggest a Muddy Fox on a cycling forum.


Your reply to another poster on this forum advocating a muddy fox was "looks like a blast".
It seems like your judgements are as consistent as your memory allows.


----------



## rowan 46 (24 Jul 2011)

I saw somebody riding a muddy fox he'd had it for 15 years and used it for his commute of about 4 miles round trip he was happy with it for his needs. Plenty of people are perfectly happy with cheap bikes for them it does the job.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Your reply to another poster on this forum advocating a muddy fox was "looks like a blast".
> It seems like your judgements are as consistent as your memory allows.


That was before I had the displeasure oe working on and test riding one. It actually goes to provd my point about not fit for purpose. It looks like something it isn't.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

rowan 46 said:


> I saw somebody riding a muddy fox he'd had it for 15 years and used it for his commute of about 4 miles round trip he was happy with it for his needs. Plenty of people are perfectly happy with cheap bikes for them it does the job.


Ffs cheap does not equate to BSO. BSO'S are cheap, there is a difference! OOI Why are you on a cycling forum if you think that people who dislike BSO's are snobs?


----------



## apollo179 (24 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> That was before I had the displeasure oe working on and test riding one. It actually goes to provd my point about not fit for purpose. It looks like something it isn't.


Sorry no U turns please. 
And please sound your siren when you reverse (may i suggest the sound of you quietly sobbing would be appropriate)
Keep digging at the rate your going and youl reach australia in no time.
The case for the prosecution rests.


----------



## Angelfishsolo (24 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Sorry no U turns please.
> And please sound your siren when you reverse (may i suggest the sound of you quietly sobbing would be appropriate)
> Keep digging at the rate your going and youl reach australia in no time.
> The case for the prosecution rests.


:troll:


----------



## rowan 46 (25 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Ffs cheap does not equate to BSO. BSO'S are cheap, there is a difference! OOI Why are you on a cycling forum if you think that people who dislike BSO's are snobs?



Because I think the term bso is snobbish I don't have a problem with people disliking bad bikes it is after all a cycling forum. I think a bad bike is a bad bike its dependant on its usage a mountain bike that can't be used on a mountain is a bad mountain bike but it will get you from a-b reasonably comfortably providing you don't go a great distance the same as a pinnacle road bike is a dreadful bike if you want to off road down a mountain on it the term bso doesn't explain to a new person what is bad about the bike as they are rarely unusable, I have seen many people riding them


----------



## abo (25 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> No. Default judgement on anyone who would suggest a Muddy Fox on a cycling forum.



Poor Muddyfox, on their website they do appear to make some reasonable-looking, value bikes. Can't recall seeing anything other than the cheap and nasty ones in my local Tesco extra though. I've had a look around the web and other places seem to be the same, with the better bikes being mail-order or available online only presumably because the shops would rather turn over a high volume of the real bottom end stuff.

No-one (I know, anyway) is going to throw down £400 or more and take a gamble on a mail order bike, they'd rather go into a shop and at least look at one and sit on it. Which means either a Carrera or Voodoo from Halfords or (in my town) a Cube Aim from the LBS here.


----------



## abo (25 Jul 2011)

rowan 46 said:


> I saw somebody riding a muddy fox he'd had it for 15 years and used it for his commute of about 4 miles round trip he was happy with it for his needs. Plenty of people are perfectly happy with cheap bikes for them it does the job.



'Muddy Fox' and Muddyfox are *not* the same thing. Muddy Fox were one-time producers of quality BMX's and MTB's. They were bought by BSO manufacturers Universal Cycles and were re-launched as 'Muddyfox', presumably in an attempt to buy a heritage and inject an illusion of quality into their product.

And can you get off this 'cheap bike' thing. It has been explained, over and over, that cheap bike does not = BSO...


----------



## apollo179 (25 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> 'Muddy Fox' and Muddyfox are *not* the same thing. Muddy Fox were one-time producers of quality BMX's and MTB's. They were bought by BSO manufacturers Universal Cycles and were re-launched as 'Muddyfox', presumably in an attempt to buy a heritage and inject an illusion of quality into their product.
> 
> And can you get off this 'cheap bike' thing. It has been explained, over and over, that cheap bike does not = BSO...



Interesting background info.
The 2 bikes refered to by myself above were both Muddyfox so im afraid it does not help the case for the defence.
Interesting nevertheless.


----------



## abo (25 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Interesting background info.
> The 2 bikes refered to by myself above were both Muddyfox so im afraid it does not help the case for the defence.
> Interesting nevertheless.



If it were really 15 years old then it'd be a Muddy Fox, they were bought in 2002 and rebranded in 2003.

edit: I'm getting my posters mixed up... You're right, those bikes you referenced are Muddyfox and that one for £80 doesn't sound great. Dunno about the other one, didn't notice it.


----------



## apollo179 (25 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> If it were really 15 years old then it'd be a Muddy Fox, they were bought in 2002 and rebranded in 2003.
> 
> edit: I'm getting my posters mixed up... You're right, those bikes you referenced are Muddyfox and that one for £80 doesn't sound great. Dunno about the other one, didn't notice it.



Page 5 of this topic.
Corshamjim offers us ; http://www.sportsdirect.com/muddyfox-phatsta-city-bike-933042
The £80 muddyfox that i naively suggested isnt going to win the tdf admittedly but you can bet lots of people are going to have lots of fun on them (just dont tell them its a bso and spoil their fun - ssshhh)


----------



## Angelfishsolo (25 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Page 5 of this topic.
> Corshamjim offers us ; http://www.sportsdir...ity-bike-933042
> The £80 muddyfox that i naively suggested isnt going to win the tdf admittedly but you can bet lots of people are going to have lots of fun on them (just dont tell them its a bso and spoil their fun - ssshhh)



Now the city bike looks OK apart from being rather heavy 13kg. It is what is says it is and I think will do what it is supposed to do.


----------



## abo (25 Jul 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Page 5 of this topic.
> Corshamjim offers us ; http://www.sportsdir...ity-bike-933042
> The £80 muddyfox that i naively suggested isnt going to win the tdf admittedly but you can bet lots of people are going to have lots of fun on them (just dont tell them its a bso and spoil their fun - ssshhh)



Yep, don't see why someone wouldn't have fun on that bike and I can't see much to go wrong on it; my only reservation is if the brake levers are made of plastic then the bit where the barrel adjuster screws into will break fairly quickly, so all the adjustment will be on the other end of the cable.

And on a personal note I'm not sure about that black plastic cover on the chainstay, it just looks horrible on what is supposed to be a stylish bike. They should have just made it a single speed


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## abo (25 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Now the city bike looks OK apart from being rather heavy 13kg



Think of it as an extra workout


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## Angelfishsolo (25 Jul 2011)

abo said:


> Think of it as an extra workout



A thought


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## mickle (25 Jul 2011)

This idea that any criticism of cheap bikes is motivated by snobbery needs a slap-down.

Cheap bikes are difficult (even for an experienced mechanic) to assemble to roadworthy condition, are uncomfortable, unreliable and heavy, prone to rust and not cost effective to repair when they (sooner than later) break down. They are never available in a decent range of sizes, which, combined with the fact that few of them have much range of adjustment means that and the people who ride them are rarely sized correctly to them.

Slow, heavy, uncomfortable, unreliable and difficult to repair - far from being an inexpensive introduction to cycling they act as a major barrier. They reinforce the myth that cycling is hard work, that cycling is uncomfortable and tiring. And when the damned things break down and are dragged into bicycle shops to be told that the repair will cost more than the value of the bike they reinforce the myth that bicycle shops are out to rip people off. There is no joy or zing in a bicycle built down to a price - only wearisome trundle.

There is something seriously wrong with a society which thinks that a bicycle must cost less than a tank of petrol.


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## Angelfishsolo (25 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> This idea that any criticism of cheap bikes is motivated by snobbery needs a slap-down.
> 
> Cheap bikes are difficult (even for an experienced mechanic) to assemble to roadworthy condition, are uncomfortable, unreliable and heavy, prone to rust and not cost effective to repair when they (sooner than later) break down. They are never available in a decent range of sizes, which, combined with the fact that few of them have much range of adjustment means that and the people who ride them are rarely sized correctly to them.
> 
> ...


The only clarification I would like to make is that not all cheap bikes meet your criteria. I have a Viking Road Bike and for £200 is a gem. When it comes to bikes that cost the same as a night in the pub I could not agree more.


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## mickle (25 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The only clarification I would like to make is that not all cheap bikes meet your criteria. I have a Viking Road Bike and for £200 is a gem. When it comes to bikes that cost the same as a night in the pub I could not agree more.



Simply the difference between inexpensive and cheap.


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## Angelfishsolo (25 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> Simply the difference between inexpensive and cheap.


Very good point and well made


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## mickle (25 Jul 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Very good point and well made



I agree.


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## Angelfishsolo (25 Jul 2011)

mickle said:


> I agree.


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