# I invented Rideye: The Black Box Camera For Cyclists. Ask me anything!



## cedricbosch (29 Sep 2013)

Hey guys! I’ve spent the last year developing a product which I have recently launched as a Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/rideye/rideye-the-black-box-camera-for-your-bike

“Rideye is a black box camera for cyclists. Inspired by the black box in an airplane, it continuously records HD video in a never-ending loop, protecting you from hit-and-runs and false claims. Rideye has crash detection sensors which will detect an accident and protect critical files for future review. It’s incredibly easy to use- just one press of the button turns it on or off. Rideye’s battery lasts 24 hours, easily enough for a full month of commuting.”

The project has been a huge success so far, and with the quantities we are projected to hit, I will be able to add some features requested by the cycling community. I am going on various cycling forums to get an idea of what people want to change about Rideye.

I’d appreciate any and all suggestions or comments! Thank you very much for your time.

Cedric


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## lukesdad (1 Oct 2013)

Got any chocolate teapots for sale ?


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## dan_bo (1 Oct 2013)

How does it protect you from hit-and-runs?


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## redcard (1 Oct 2013)

cedricbosch said:


> Rideye’s battery lasts 24 hours, easily enough for a full month of commuting.”



Yeah?


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## dellzeqq (1 Oct 2013)

I know this is fussy, but it's not pretty. Any chance of rounding those square edges?


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## Luddite Joe (1 Oct 2013)

What are next weeks winning lottery numbers?


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## Crackle (1 Oct 2013)

Tough crowd!

Not a bad idea. I wouldn't contemplate any kind of normal video camera but this isn't so freaky geeky and would be the only reason I might carry a camera. I wouldn't but if I did, this might be it.

I'm with Dellzeqq, too square, why not a rounded housing?


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## BSRU (1 Oct 2013)

Surely a black box recorder needs some way of recording speed and position, i.e. GPS and recording if you are speeding up or slowing down.


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## cedricbosch (3 Oct 2013)

Great questions! The mount is a silicone strap that attaches to any size handlebar. I also designed a seatpost and helmet mount for those who are interested.


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## Beebo (3 Oct 2013)

Crackle said:


> I'm with Dellzeqq, too square, why not a rounded housing?


But its a "black box recorder" so it has to be in a black box, otherwise it would just be another cycle camera, and they're 10 a penny.
That I fear is the biggest problem, it's just another camera, what can this do that another cameras can't?


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## Tanis8472 (3 Oct 2013)

> Rideye uses state-of-the-art lithium cells and efficient power management to achieve an impressive battery life of 24 hours. Even if your daily commute is an hour long, Rideye will finish the month with charge to spare.



1 hr a day x 30 days = 30hrs, so how is that enough for a month?


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## jugglingphil (3 Oct 2013)

BSRU said:


> Surely a black box recorder needs some way of recording speed and position, i.e. GPS and recording if you are speeding up or slowing down.



That's exactly what I was thinking, needs GPS.
Otherwise I agree a lot with Crackle. I've not wanted a camera before, but would consider this. 
I'm worried that my handlebars are already crowded, could I fit more on?
Logo and name are great, looks like you've come a long way and have a good product. Personally I'm not bothered that it's square, although everyone likes rounded edges.


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## simon.r (3 Oct 2013)

Looks good - I'm like others, don't really want a camera but would consider this.

Nit picking, but If you could reduce the weight that would be good.


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## simon.r (3 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2688386, member: 259"]GPS requires a lot of power, so the battery life would be far less.

Roughly how much would they sell for?

As others have said, I would consider one but it's not pretty.[/quote]

$149 according to the website - £100? I'm probably being hopeful on then exchange rate!


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## BSRU (3 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2688386, member: 259"]GPS requires a lot of power, so the battery life would be far less.
[/quote]
As an owner of a Contour Plus, a HD camera with GPS I can say "no it does not".


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## fossala (3 Oct 2013)

cedricbosch said:


> Rideye’s battery lasts 24 hours, easily enough for a full month of commuting.”


That would last me a 2 weeks commuting, that isn't taking into account my leisure riding.


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## Crackle (3 Oct 2013)

Beebo said:


> But its a "black box recorder" so it has to be in a black box, otherwise it would just be another cycle camera, and they're 10 a penny.
> That I fear is the biggest problem, it's just another camera, what can this do that another cameras can't?


I guess the difference is the never-ending loop, battery life and the whole crash detection idea and presumably a housing which will take an impact. Add in GPS or/and ant+/bluetooth for Garmin/phone/other connection and it's not a bad old idea. Nearly fit and forget.


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Oct 2013)

Tanis8472 said:


> 1 hr a day x 30 days = 30hrs, so how is that enough for a month?


 
Don't you get any days off?

GC


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## Linford (3 Oct 2013)

Nice to see someone with a bit of vision.

Now a couple of things I'd look to investigate with this cam is (as the others have said. Round the corners. I take it the thing is an early prototype in a prototyping case.
I'm an ally extrusion tool designer by trade, and so for toughness, cost per unit, and ease of manufacture, I'd say seriously consider extruding the shell out of ally. Ally shells can have PCB slots and heatsink profiles shaped in them. We do a significant amount of work for this stuff.
You only then have to get the end caps moulded.

Also, I'd say you really want to look at using a 360 degreee lens system similar to this


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Oct 2013)

cedricbosch said:


> Hey guys! I’ve spent the last year developing a product which I have recently launched as a Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign.


 
How much will it cost?

GC


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## 4F (3 Oct 2013)

Have to say it's not exactly pleasing to the eye...


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## Tanis8472 (3 Oct 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Don't you get any days off?
> 
> GC


Last 5 weeks, no


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## vernon (5 Oct 2013)

Tanis8472 said:


> 1 hr a day x 30 days = 30hrs, so how is that enough for a month?



Most people only work twenty days in a 28 day month.

Only the dedicated work seven day weeks.


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## Linford (5 Oct 2013)

Come on guys, at least he is having a go at addressing the technical issues. Imo,it needs a bit more development like any early gadget to improve the execution, but in principle it is a very sensible idea. I'd be interested to see the next incarnation of it....what is the low light capability of it like btw?


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Oct 2013)

cedricbosch said:


> it continuously records HD video in a never-ending loop, protecting you from hit-and-runs and false claims.



What prevents it from overwriting footage you may wish to keep?
For example.... I'm riding home, a passing car clips my bars and I fall off.... I'm able to continue my journey but want to keep the footage as evidence. Am I able to contine using the camera, or is there a possibility my data will be overwritten?


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## glasgowcyclist (5 Oct 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> What prevents it from overwriting footage you may wish to keep?
> For example.... I'm riding home, a passing car clips my bars and I fall off.... I'm able to continue my journey but want to keep the footage as evidence. Am I able to contine using the camera, or is there a possibility my data will be overwritten?




In his opening message he wrote:

_Rideye has crash detection sensors which will detect an accident and protect critical files for future review._​GC


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## Linford (5 Oct 2013)

Am trying to figure if the appearance here was to peddle the prospect, than get some meaningful feedback....


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> In his opening message he wrote:
> 
> _Rideye has crash detection sensors which will detect an accident and protect critical files for future review._
> 
> ​


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## User6179 (5 Oct 2013)

Linford said:


> Come on guys, at least he is having a go at addressing the technical issues. Imo,it needs a bit more development like any early gadget to improve the execution, but in principle it is a very sensible idea. I'd be interested to see the next incarnation of it....what is the low light capability of it like btw?


 
I have invented eyebanana , its a banana in a box with hunger detectors , are you interested?


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## Linford (5 Oct 2013)

Eddy said:


> I have invented eyebanana , its a banana in a box with hunger detectors , are you interested?



Only if you can swap it out for a Sharon fruit


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## cedricbosch (5 Oct 2013)

Eddy said:


> I have invented eyebanana , its a banana in a box with hunger detectors , are you interested?



Love it! You should post it on Kickstarter and see how it goes


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## Shaun (6 Oct 2013)

Some off-topic chat removed. Stick to on-topic feedback please.

Thanks,
Shaun


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## cyberknight (6 Oct 2013)

can it make coffee and tea cakes?
Well you did say to ask anything


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## threebikesmcginty (7 Oct 2013)

If you were the sort that runs over cyclists and fecks off, wouldn't you just nick the camera? 
Or if anyone else was about you could pretend to help and just pocket the camera and then say 'bloody cyclists, came out of nowhere, etc..."


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## Dayvo (7 Oct 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> If you were the sort that runs over cyclists and fecks off, wouldn't you just nick the camera?
> Or if anyone else was about you could pretend to help and just pocket the camera and then say 'bloody cyclists, came out of nowhere, etc..."



Yeah, the kind of person who dents a car in a car park, then buggers off without leaving a note on the windscreen with driver's details and insurance co. tel. no.


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## Cycling Dan (7 Oct 2013)

My initial thoughts

*Design:*
Poor design really. Its like a brick but least its flattish and not tall. . Personally I would of liked to see a bullet type shape and it makes it easier to place and gives usability. Take Contour for example.
I want to see a strength test of the design as well. This will allow me to see how it preforms while recording then have the footage reviewed to make sure the internals didn't fail. Something flimsy will not do any good in a crash.

*Blackbox*
I don't see anything here blackbox related what so ever. A blackbox on an aircraft records speed, altitude and other information. This camera does none of that apart from saving a file from being deleted when a crash is detected. I see this as a pointless feature as most cameras don't over right files to create new ones when the card is full. If they run out of space they just stop recording( some don't though and do the prior). So calling it a blackbox is wrong as it is not. Its just a camera with a save switch which really doesn't need to be there.
Onto another thing a crash does not always happen from the front. If it was from the side or rear it renders the camera useless so to suggest it will protect "you from hit-and-runs and false claims" is a bend of the truth as it depends one what it sees. A idea came out for a helmet camera which recorded 360 degrees using 4 lens and this would be more up to the job but that comes at a larger price tag.

*Video Quality*
The first thing I noticed was that it was 720p. That is disappointing for a camera which has the sole base of capturing footage to secure number plates. From the sample footage we can see that it had trouble spotting plates unless they were right in front of the camera. I would expect 1080P at least. Also 120 degree of FOV I find low considering you're competition has 170. 120 is a more narrow field of view by a huge proportion, I know when I use my camera I find 125 degrees on my roam was too narrow to accurately capture footage. 120 degrees will leave a lot to the imagination.
Onto another thing about the lens. The footage is very soft especially at the sides of the camera which is expected with some but not all. It is really soft. Take the second video for example at 0:43. The car to the left is a a few feet away but the camera cant make out the plate. So a side on hit or a side on view of the plate could cause some issue. The camera needs to be pointed directly at something to capture it well. 1:17 is another example. You have to be right on the bumper of the car to make out the plate. The detailed quality you need is just not there.
Night footage is grainy but not too bad.

*Price*
$149 ~£100. Not an unreasonable price. However given performance and all points above I wouldn't pay that for it. I have seen better performance from the Contour roam for the same price. So in turn this camera has no competitive price over its competition.

*Mounting*
Release pictures of all the mounts. Good mounts can be just as important as the design and footage quality of the camera and the sony AS15 is testament to that.

*Overall judgement*
From what I have read and see I have not seen anything which gives this camera an edge. It seems like another addition to the already inflated number of action cameras with this one taking a high low end or low middle end of the market. This is not a blackbox camera but an attempt of an action camera. Given the footage seen I have some doubts over its ability to do the job it was designed for. Raw footage could clear this up. Onto price, I know of cameras better suited and that better perform for the same price. Its just another camera which records what is in front of it at a narrow view. The footage is just too soft, it is not sharp enough.

Sorry if these seems hyper critical but you're product wont improve if I just praise it.


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## glasgowcyclist (7 Oct 2013)

Here's what's already on the market from Roadhawk at £149.94.

http://cycle.roadhawk.co.uk/

As with the Rideye, at 720p the ability to record number plates at a reasonable distance isn't there. I'll stick to my Contour HD.

GC


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## cedricbosch (9 Oct 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> My initial thoughts



Thanks for your detailed commentary. I'll definitely take your points into consideration while improving the design. 

I think I've been unclear about how this differs from an action cam. Action cams record until their card is full, and then you have to format the card on your computer before you can keep recording. With Rideye, the camera makes room for new footage automatically. This means you need a crash detection sensor to prevent important files from being overwritten. Action cams get 2-3 hours of battery life, Rideye gets 24.

These features combined make it great for someone who is looking for a camera specifically to record their rides. You charge it once in a blue moon, and it's dead easy to use. It just sits on your bike and does its thing until you need footage from it.


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## cedricbosch (9 Oct 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Here's what's already on the market from Roadhawk at £149.94.
> 
> http://cycle.roadhawk.co.uk/
> 
> ...



The problem with the Road Hawk is that it will record over your crash footage files, since it doesn't have a crash detection sensor. Actually, this might not be an issue since the battery life is only 90 minutes, as compared to Rideye's 24 hours.


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## cedricbosch (11 Oct 2013)

User said:


> What about addressing the points of:
> 
> it only looks in one direction (in your demo the front) so, unless you're hit from that direction, it won't capture anything.
> it doesn't log any of the data that other 'black boxes' do (e.g. speeds, direction of travel)
> you claim this "[protects] you from hit and runs and false claims". This protects you from nothing - it won't stop either of those happening. At best, it might record something to do with an incident. But it is designed to switch off at impact - and the most important stuff (e.g. the car fleeing the scene or a driver admitting liability) happens after that point.



Great questions. I'll try to answer them as best I can:

1. 70% of accidents happen from the front, such as a car turning left in front of a cyclist (the most common bike accident). Source below. That said, I understand that some people want more than just coverage on the front- that's why we offer the two-pack with a seatpost mount.
2. When determining fault, the most improtant evidence is video of the incident. The metrics you mentioned can be extrapolated from the video by measuring reference points and using simple mathematics. This is a technique already used in vehicular accident investigations, except the only evidence they have to work with is skidmarks.
3. That's true- Rideye isn't a force field! But it does prevent the driver from speeding away with all the responsibility left on your shoulders. Also, Rideye turns off 5 minutes after the crash was detected, so the impotant footage you refer to would definitely be recorded.

Let me know if I can help answer anything else!

Cedric

Source- http://www.lightandmotion.com/bike/SafetyArticle.pdf


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 Oct 2013)

In your video the text explains:



> "Last year my friend was seriously injured in a hit-and-run accident whilst riding his bike" "I promised him he would never have to ride with that fear again"


While that is unfortunate(if true), how does Rideye prevent "fear" within it's user? How can you possibly make such a promise, when you can never know what will happen on the road?



> Rideye makes cycling safer for everyone


Does it remove drivers from vehicles?



> It's the first black box camera for your bike


It's not the first black box because all it is,is a box that is black.(GPS?) and it's certainly not the first camera. The ability to save important segments of video has been around for years, and without the premise of making cycling safer.



> Ultrawide optical element to capture every detail


If the lens happens to be pointing at it. Thus not every detail can be captured depending on the incident/accident/crash



> Detect a crash and save for future review


You say it makes cycling safer, but the product has to detect a crash before anything happens. Then it's failed to meet your claims right?


And for that reason "I'm out"


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## cedricbosch (11 Oct 2013)

Great points, Regular and T.M.H.N.E.T. I understand that you've decided this product isn't for you personally, and I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I do believe that cyclists will greatly benefit from having a set-and-forget safety video camera, regardless of what you call it. Once we hit a critical number of these units, cars will begin to drive more conservatively, knowing their actions might be recorded.

On a side note, Rideye is now closing in on $75k on Kickstarter! I'm really looking forward to bringing this product to market. The feedback I've received from backers and forum posts like these has been really helpful. Thanks for making this whole campaign such a success.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rideye/rideye-the-black-box-camera-for-your-bike/?ref=kicktraq

Regular, do you have any links to the international crash statistics you reference? That would be really helpful. I've researched that topic heavily and have only found a few good papers.


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## User6179 (11 Oct 2013)

I would put some money aside for the possible lawsuits that will come your way if this device fails when someone is knocked down and they have no footage ! 
The claims you are making I think would leave you wide open !


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## Rob3rt (12 Oct 2013)

People will back anything on kickstarter. The product is just another camera... and an ugly one at that.


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## buggi (12 Oct 2013)

what i like most is they it saves crash evidence which a lot of you may not have thought about... If you are dead who is gonna save your evidence? At least your relatives can take this and get the footage. Not all helmet cams automatically save... Mine doesn't.
my thoughts are... It needs to be waterproof, vibration proof, shock/crash proof, GPS, HD and give a view in all directions (ie could you have tiny cameras elsewhere on the bike that link back to the main box?) then i think you will have it licked.


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## smarr5 (9 Jun 2014)

I've got a Roadhawk camera, both forward and rear facing with a microphone.
I use it in my car and company vehicle as I work alone. I've not used it yet for evidence, but as in the traffic light case above, it would be very handy to prove you're in the right.
Also if you have a little set to with a person of foreign origins and they accuse you of racial abuse, it's all recorded.
Obviously with one of these fitted, you can't drive like a tw@t, so it helps on the fuel economy.


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## RhythMick (16 Jun 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Here's what's already on the market from Roadhawk at £149.94.
> 
> http://cycle.roadhawk.co.uk/
> 
> ...


I missed the kickstarter but am going to give this a try.

I've read through the thread. I think some of the comments are a bit harsh but that's because the OP pushed the angle of this being a black box recorder. It's not. It's a cycle camera with some features that make it very interesting in my opinion. In particular the battery life (roadhawk is 90 mins at best). Looping recording - tick. H.264 compression. Price seems reasonable. Accelerometer saves recording in event of accident.

Will report back of course.


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## glasgowcyclist (16 Jun 2014)

RhythMick said:


> I missed the kickstarter but am going to give this a try.
> 
> I've read through the thread. I think some of the comments are a bit harsh but that's because the OP pushed the angle of this being a black box recorder. It's not. It's a cycle camera with some features that make it very interesting in my opinion. In particular the battery life (roadhawk is 90 mins at best). Looping recording - tick. H.264 compression. Price seems reasonable. Accelerometer saves recording in event of accident.
> 
> Will report back of course.




I've got one of these in my car. 


It's small, remarkably well-equipped, and more what a black box gadget should be; with GPS, looping, no gaps between files, G sensor, automatic file protection etc. All for less than £60. If I could get that for the bike, I'd be very happy.

GC


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## ufkacbln (17 Jun 2014)

B


Beebo said:


> But its a "black box recorder" so it has to be in a black box, otherwise it would just be another cycle camera, and they're 10 a penny.
> That I fear is the biggest problem, it's just another camera, what can this do that another cameras can't?



Black boxes are usually bright orange to allow for ease of location!


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## Cuchilo (17 Jun 2014)

I get ride eye if I don't wear padded shorts . It hurts .


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