# Why are Brompton folding bikes so expensive?



## Bimble (16 Feb 2016)

I just wondered what makes a Brompton worth nearly a thousand pounds in comparison with many of the cheaper folders that are now available?

Is it the components? Frame materials? Great service if something goes wrong?

They seem to be the folder of choice for many, have a great following and are written about positively all over the place, so what makes the Brompton such an admired bit of kit at such a high(ish) price?


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## outlash (16 Feb 2016)

As the old saying goes 'you get what you pay for'. I use a Tern for around town and it's great for that, unlike a Brompton that people tour with and keep for many, many years..


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## SavageHoutkop (16 Feb 2016)

It's good quality and all parts are backward compatible. We have two 2008 models in the house and they are still going strong. Also you get to feel good that you have supported British jobs if that matters to you. Still not seen another folder with a fold as neat, although I've not been looking. 
Used to be the only folder that was guaranteed passage on a train was a Brompton as all others were too big.


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## MichaelW2 (16 Feb 2016)

Brommies fold up to a more compact size by using 2 frame hinge axes instead of the usual one. This means extra tubework, lugs and fittings. This complex hand-brazed structure is made in London, paying London rents, wages, taxes, effluent standards etc.
Brommies have far more unique components than most std 20" folders.
They are a high quality product,comparable with (usually beating) the best German and Taiwanese folders which themselves are not cheap.


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## 12boy (16 Feb 2016)

There is much said about the fold and some bitching about the weight, but those frames and hinges are sturdy and durable. What I like about it is its capacity to carry weight, both a rider and cargo. You can carry a lot in the front, really driven mostly by what size bag is on there and some on the back as well, without compromising handling and safety. In fact, a heavy front bag stabilizes the steering some what. I think of mine, which I call my little goat, as a very efficient little cargo bike, which BTW are hardly cheap, either.


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## simon.r (16 Feb 2016)

MichaelW2 said:


> ...complex hand-brazed structure is made in London, paying London rents, wages, taxes, effluent standards etc.



Bloody Cockneys, even their sewers are better than everywhere else


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## Kell (16 Feb 2016)

Expensive compared to what?

I resisted getting a Brompton and had three full-size folders before it.



My main objection actually wasn't the price (as at that point, I didn't know how much they were), but more the small wheeled thing.

The first one was bent out of shape when it was run over by a car, so I can't hold that against the bike. However, both of my Dahons cracked the seat tubes. One after 5 years (bought new) and one after 1 year (bought second hand while I tried to get someone to admit responsibility for the first one cracking. I failed).

Both bikes ended up being binned as there were no parts worth salvaging. I only kept the wheels as I'd upgraded them from the cheap vaguely, but not quite, round versions that came with the bike. My original Dahon was about £800, plus the new wheels at about £125 doesn't make it that much cheaper than a Brompton anyway. And the second one I bought from a mate who'd used it for about a week, for £150.

This is a picture of the second one I bought - which was a 2008. The one I bought new, was a 2009. Sure I've got a picture of the cracks somewhere, but not to hand.












When I eventually bit the bullet and got a Brompton, I wished I'd done it years ago.

There's nothing better suited to the purpose that's any less expensive. And actually, There's nothing I've seen that 's more expensive that's any better suited.

My only gripe is that when it's folded, it's not light to carry. And those little wheels do NOT make it easy to wheel about.


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## srw (16 Feb 2016)

Despite what @User says - they're priced fairly for what you get. Which is a well-designed, well-made, well-thought-out versatile bike that also doubles as a solution to the problem of multi-modal travel.


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## jay clock (16 Feb 2016)

I have Brompton and a Dahon. Dahon not used once since I had the Brompton. The Brompton folds properly and rides almost as well when the front bag is on.


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## T4tomo (16 Feb 2016)

Mine is over 10 years old and still rides like its brand new. You get what you pay for.

All I've replaced in that time is a rear mudguard and a crank/chainring combo. Plus a few cables, chains and sprockets thru normal wear and tear. I recently upgraded the brake levers to the new style as they are better, but the old ones were still functional.


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## Profpointy (16 Feb 2016)

I'm after one but it's a pity the axle spacing isn't standard as the stock 3 speed seems a bit naff, compared with the kinetic 11 speed afline version - but that needs an entire new rear end henc is a bit pricey


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## MichaelW2 (16 Feb 2016)

simon.r said:


> Bloody Cockneys, even their sewers are better than everywhere else


Better than China, me old China !


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## jay clock (16 Feb 2016)

Also worth saying I did a club TT on my Brompton last year. Started with it folded and managed the unfold and jump on within 17 secs


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## jay clock (16 Feb 2016)

User said:


> If you want to be able to ride right up to the gate of the station as the front of your train is passing in front of you, get off and have the bike folded before the train has stopped, get a Brompton.


to be fair my Dahon folds fast but is huge and cumbersome when folded... and will not fit behind a seat on the train I used to take


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## CopperBrompton (16 Feb 2016)

There are folders that are compact when folded, folders that are quick to fold/unfold and folders that are great to ride. If you want all three, you're looking at a Brompton, and that's why they aren't cheap.

But I'd argue that they aren't expensive either. They last forever, so you can easily get the purchase cost down to £100/year or a little over eight quid a month.


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## mjr (17 Feb 2016)

MichaelW2 said:


> Brommies fold up to a more compact size by using 2 frame hinge axes instead of the usual one. This means extra tubework, lugs and fittings. This complex hand-brazed structure is made in London, paying London rents, wages, taxes, effluent standards etc.


I'd say this is part of the reason, plus it's a fashionable brand that holds its resale value. I have a rebadged Dahon for occasional bike-train/bus-bike work trips, but if I was using it every day, I think I'd get a Brompton.


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## jay clock (17 Feb 2016)

They do hold their value amazingly well. Two yr old 2 speed for £650? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-...397905?hash=item33b1a03211:g:aKYAAOSwKtlWtOqd


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## Kell (17 Feb 2016)

jay clock said:


> to be fair my Dahon folds fast but is huge and cumbersome when folded... and will not fit behind a seat on the train I used to take



I was going to say, the Dahon folding mechanism was probably less than two seconds on the older bikes. The Lockjaw system took a bit longer because it needed an allen key, but was still quicker than the Brompton.

As mentioned though, no where near as small.


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## Kell (17 Feb 2016)

[QUOTE 4159829, member: 45"]

And I still believe that Brompton are cheeky with what they can get away with because of the brand - they're a bit lazy with their development.[/QUOTE]

I'd agree with that. The three speed hub and two levers to achieve 6 gears is ridiculously archaic. Plus I think they should offer more handlebars as stock seeing as how there's no other way to adjust the height of the front end.

Discs would be a welcome option. So would a longer, more stretched-out version of the frame.

As you say, pretty much every bike is a compromise on something and folding bikes add a whole new dimension. With bikes it always used to be LIGHTWEIGHT/STRONG/CHEAP - pick any two. Add in size of folded bike and ease of fold and it's a nightmare trying to get the 'right' bike.

All I can say is that nothing else I looked at would have worked for me. At any price.


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## Profpointy (17 Feb 2016)

jay clock said:


> They do hold their value amazingly well. Two yr old 2 speed for £650? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-...397905?hash=item33b1a03211:g:aKYAAOSwKtlWtOqd



there's asking £650 and there's getting £650. A touch high i'd say, but not by miles


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## StuartG (17 Feb 2016)

[QUOTE 4158093, member: 45"]They're overpriced, simple as that.[/QUOTE]
There are cheaper folders, there may be better folders. But show me a cheaper better folder (ie folds as small) that is good for at least an 80 mile a day tour for a very ordinary rider ... or perhaps a little less if towing a trailer?

I'm listening, wallet at the ready!


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## MichaelW2 (17 Feb 2016)

Kell said:


> I'd agree with that. The three speed hub and two levers to achieve 6 gears is ridiculously archaic.
> Discs would be a welcome option. So would a longer, more stretched-out version of the frame.



With 16" wheels there is no practical way to use disk brakes. The disk would strike curbs and get covered in oily, muddy water, just like rims do, and sharp edges would not be practical for suited commuter riders. 
How can Brommies get more gears. Alfine/Nexus style hub gears are quite heavy. Brommies need a rear chain slack device for folding anyway, so adding some cogs is easy. 3+2 is a reasonably sensible way to go. Is there space for an 8 or 9 speed cassette in the 115mm frame dropouts? There would be much more risk of oil contamination of clothing from all the exposed cogs.
Kinetics make Rohloff rear ends and disk forks for Brommies, if that gets your goat. An "ecosystem" of 3rd-party support and bits is always useful.


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## jay clock (17 Feb 2016)

Profpointy said:


> there's asking £650 and there's getting £650. A touch high i'd say, but not by miles


this 4 yr old version sold for £652 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-...542591?hash=item58d4d04b3f:g:kK0AAOSwqrtWoo7M
That works out at about a quid a week depreciation


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## skelator88 (17 Feb 2016)

I don't find bromptons to be that much more expensive than any other. It does the job that's needed can be thrown under your desk. Can climb hills like other expensive road bikes. And you can carry a bottle a milk in the basket on the front as well as a tent tied to the back rack. !!!


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## TheDoctor (17 Feb 2016)

My M6R cost me £650 IIRC, and after 7 years use I'd probably get more than that if I sold it. Not that I ever would.
I don't think that's expensive at all.


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## PaulM (17 Feb 2016)

MichaelW2 said:


> How can Brommies get more gears. Alfine/Nexus style hub gears are quite heavy. Brommies need a rear chain slack device for folding anyway, so adding some cogs is easy. 3+2 is a reasonably sensible way to go. Is there space for an 8 or 9 speed cassette in the 115mm frame dropouts? There would be much more risk of oil contamination of clothing from all the exposed cogs.
> Kinetics make Rohloff rear ends and disk forks for Brommies, if that gets your goat. An "ecosystem" of 3rd-party support and bits is always useful.



The drop outs easily take an 8 speed Sturmery Archer 120mm OLD hub, although the tensioner needs a slight mod.


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## TheDoctor (17 Feb 2016)

That's true, and it gives you much the same gear range as a 6 speed, but weighs more. And costs more.
But there's only one lever, if that's important to you. It's a far neater solution.


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## Fab Foodie (17 Feb 2016)

[QUOTE 4159829, member: 45"]The Brompton isn't the best of each though. It's the best compromise, and not the best option for everyone. My Mezzo was a way better ride than a Brompton, the fold was fine, and it was not far off on size when folded .....[/QUOTE]


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## Fab Foodie (17 Feb 2016)

Bromptons are expensive because they're worth it .... but also because they are quite specialist in their build and components.
I don't agree with @User (unusually) in that I find mine well built and designed for it's purpose. OK, some bits could be better, but they still work. The ride is a bit quirky but none the worst for it (I think it's a hoot to ride) and it's a very usable bike - fine for long distances and cycle-touring (especially multi-modal touring) aaaaand it fits inside my tent, is easy to take on a plane, is great for a run to the shops, commute, occasional club runs, whatever. Out of my 9 bikes it's the most flexible and the first one I'd save if the garage was on fire.


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## mjr (18 Feb 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> That's true, and it gives you much the same gear range as a 6 speed, but weighs more. And costs more.
> But there's only one lever, if that's important to you. It's a far neater solution.


More importantly, gear-hub-only need not dangle the chain quite so near the road to collect crud, nor flex it. I wish I'd gone for a three-speed hub gear instead of the 6-speed derailleur on my folder. I've only once really needed the bottom gear on the six and walking that would have been OK.


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## SavageHoutkop (18 Feb 2016)

mjray said:


> More importantly, gear-hub-only need not dangle the chain quite so near the road to collect crud, nor flex it. I wish I'd gone for a three-speed hub gear instead of the 6-speed derailleur on my folder. I've only once really needed the bottom gear on the six and walking that would have been OK.


I'm happy with 6, although tbf I do use only the 3 90% of the time. I find the dérailleur useful in mild headwinds.


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## Kell (18 Feb 2016)

I don't use gears 2 or 3 as a rule, but do use 1 for some of the hills in High Wycombe (check out my thread about coming down a hill at 40 mph - obviously I have to pedal back up that).

But most of the time I'm in 4/5 which is annoying as it's two shifts.


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## CopperBrompton (18 Feb 2016)

[QUOTE 4159829, member: 45"]The Brompton isn't the best of each though. It's the best compromise, and not the best option for everyone.[/QUOTE]
I'd honestly say it's the best complete package. The front bag system, for example, offers an unrivalled degree of convenience, plus you can carry ridiculous weights without affecting the handling.


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## CopperBrompton (18 Feb 2016)

Kell said:


> I was going to say, the Dahon folding mechanism was probably less than two seconds on the older bikes.


Dahons don't really fold, they kind of collapse. A bit.


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## CopperBrompton (18 Feb 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> That's true, and it gives you much the same gear range as a 6 speed, but weighs more. And costs more. But there's only one lever, if that's important to you. It's a far neater solution.


Neater, nicer to use, and smaller gaps between gears.


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## Conradm (17 Jul 2018)

I'd understood they're expensive to put you off buying them. Helpfully that means you can get something cheaper that doesn't have complex, expensive, weighty engineering solutions to accommodate the spurious need to fold something that works better if it doesn't fold.


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## TheDoctor (19 Jul 2018)

People buy folding bikes because they need folding bikes. There's nowt 'spurious' about it.
Oh, and "Holy thread resurrection, Batman!"


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## Kell (20 Jul 2018)

I think like lots of things in life, there's a difference between value and cost. 

Comparatively, Brompton's do cost a lot, but I think they're good value because they work really well, they're designed for purpose and, to me*, there was nothing better I could find at any price - more or less expensive.

*I appreciate that for other people there may be too many compromises.


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## alicat (20 Jul 2018)

Holy thread resurrection!

Methinks someone has come on here to stir things up a bit.


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2018)

I thought they were expensive so that they could fold into the empty space in your wallet.


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## Kell (20 Jul 2018)

[QUOTE 5319672, member: 45"]Bromptons are medieval bikes designed for the circus, with old-fashioned components. Serious Bromptoneers have to adapt their bikes to make them decent. They're overpriced pig-iron, riding on a reputation that is no longer valid.

Only nobbers ride Bromptons.

And clowns. Clowns like Bromptons.[/QUOTE]

Without wishing to poke the bear, what's the alternative if you NEED a folder. Bearing in mind that you're not comparing them to a non-folding bike, what would your solution be?


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## Kell (20 Jul 2018)

I wasn't taking you seriously - I'm happy with my choice. I had three full-size folders before the Brompton and two of them snapped rendering them worthless. To me, the Brompton is a far better overall package than any of my previous ones. 

Before I looked at a Brompton, I looked at Airnimals (not a great folding mechanism - and some were double the price of a Brompton), Oribikes looked good (but there's little support for them), Dahons - both small wheeled and big, I felt the small wheeled Dahon I tried was like riding cooked spaghetti - and the two that snapped were both Dahons. Birdy's and Mezzos didn't really seem to offer more, and while I tried a Mezzo (and didn't get on with the steering) I never actually tried a Birdy.

As I've said previously, when I first realised I needed a folder I didn't want to get a Brompton. Back in 2008, the colour ways were dull and they seemed old-fashioned. They're still old-fashioned, but at least they're modernising where possible.

I still think there's a lot they can do better, but as mentioned above, it works for me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Jul 2018)

Kell said:


> I think like lots of things in life, there's a difference between value and cost.
> 
> Comparatively, Brompton's do cost a lot, but I think they're good value because they work really well, they're designed for purpose and, to me*, there was nothing better I could find at any price - more or less expensive..



I know two Brompton owners, both are very satisfied with their bikes and do not consider them frivolous or extravagant purchases. One of them also has an owned-from-new 531 Dawes Galaxy as his full-sized bike, so I consider him to be quite a discerning cyclist who knows that price and value are two different things. I've had a ride on one, but they aren't for me - I just don't get on with the way they handle compared to a large wheel machine.
Whatever became of the Bickertons? Someone else I know has got one to sling in the boot of his car, and is quite enthusiastic about it. I've never ridden it though, can't comment whether it's any more predictable than a Brompton. I'd imagine it's rather twitchy and bumpy.


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## Heltor Chasca (21 Jul 2018)

Thread drift. What about Moultons? Or do you think they can’t be compared to Bromptons as they aren’t folders?

If I ‘needed’ an N+1 i would consider a Moulton. I can’t find the love for a Brompton.


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## jay clock (21 Jul 2018)

CopperBrompton said:


> I'd honestly say it's the best complete package. The front bag system, for example, offers an unrivalled degree of convenience, plus you can carry ridiculous weights without affecting the handling.


correction "_.... you can carry ridiculous weights that improve the handling"_


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## raleighnut (21 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Thread drift. What about Moultons? Or do you think they can’t be compared to Bromptons as they aren’t folders?
> 
> If I ‘needed’ an N+1 i would consider a Moulton. I can’t find the love for a Brompton.


I rode a Moulton once in the 70s (Bill Moore's sister had one)  never again.


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2018)

jay clock said:


> I have Brompton and a Dahon. Dahon not used once since I had the Brompton. The Brompton folds properly and rides almost as well when the front bag is on.


I too have a Dahon - Speed Pro. Great fun (when it works) - but not a patch on the Brompton for build quality. I avoid buying spares for the Dahon as I have the feeling it might die any minute. It has also cost me a fair bit one way and another. My five speed Brommie is pretty much last century. Built like a tank. Has done loads of shopping, been chucked under supermarket trolleys, flown, been on loads of buses (a favourite trick of mine in Nottingham was to overtake a bus and get on at the next stop so fast was the fold) and up mountains.

In short, although I am somewhat careful with my money and pooh pooh a fair bit of modern cycling stuff I don't think the Brommie is overpriced.


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2018)

Speed pro on top



__ Blue Hills
__ 8 May 2018





[QUOTE 5321265, member: 45"]Only a fool buys a Brompton.

I've commuted by train since 1967 on two cut-down scaffolding pipes and three trolley wheels. Unbolted, it all sits under the train seat. I don't understand why people buy new bikes when you can't beat what I got. I stole the parts, so they've not cost me a penny.[/QUOTE]
A totally out of order response to skipdiver's more than reasonable post. I suggest you read/reread it.

Skipdiver - on Bickertons (though I remember the ads fondly from my distant youth) I have the impression that they are indeed somewhat bendy/flexy/twitchy. I have a vague memory that I rode one for a short while and was a bit unnerved. Definitely been unconvinced on peering at them closely. I see them as curiosities/pioneers/a brave attempt befofre their time at getting folks out of their cars.

Pic of Speed Pro above. The Brommie has been to exactly the same spot (don't have pic to hand) and in truth I was more confident of getting back on the brommie.

edit:

The Brommie/same place.













brommie



__ Blue Hills
__ 21 Jul 2018


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## Heltor Chasca (21 Jul 2018)

raleighnut said:


> I rode a Moulton once in the 70s (Bill Moore's sister had one)  never again.



Cliff hanger! Creative, but now I won’t sleep.


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## midlife (21 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I know two Brompton owners, both are very satisfied with their bikes and do not consider them frivolous or extravagant purchases. One of them also has an owned-from-new 531 Dawes Galaxy as his full-sized bike, so I consider him to be quite a discerning cyclist who knows that price and value are two different things. I've had a ride on one, but they aren't for me - I just don't get on with the way they handle compared to a large wheel machine.
> Whatever became of the Bickertons? Someone else I know has got one to sling in the boot of his car, and is quite enthusiastic about it. I've never ridden it though, can't comment whether it's any more predictable than a Brompton. I'd imagine it's rather twitchy and bumpy.



Bickerton.... I guess you mean one of these that our shop had in the 1970's







I think they are now rebadged Tern's


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## raleighnut (21 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Cliff hanger! Creative, but now I won’t sleep.


Put it this way they made a Raleigh Chopper feel stable (and light)


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2018)

At the risk of a divert, which one was it raleighnut?


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## raleighnut (21 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> At the risk of a divert, which one was it raleighnut?


A blue one,


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2018)

I think I briefly had one as a kid that looked similar. Acquired second hand in one of my dad's ill-advised adventures into the small ads in the local rag. Too big for me. Great big brown thing. Burst a tyre doing skids and don't remember it after that. Are those the ones prone to rust?


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## srw (21 Jul 2018)

[QUOTE 5319672, member: 45"]Bromptons are medieval bikes designed for the circus, with old-fashioned components. Serious Bromptoneers have to adapt their bikes to make them decent. They're overpriced pig-iron, riding on a reputation that is no longer valid.

Only nobbers ride Bromptons.

And clowns. Clowns like Bromptons.[/QUOTE]
Two and a half years later I simply have to requote a post.



srw said:


> Despite what @User says - they're priced fairly for what you get. Which is a well-designed, well-made, well-thought-out versatile bike that also doubles as a solution to the problem of multi-modal travel.


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## swansonj (21 Jul 2018)

When I was unable to get to sleep the other night, I fell to trying mentally to create the angle of the hinges to reproduce the folds of a Brompton. I failed utterly and concluded it is in fact magic.


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## Conradm (21 Jul 2018)

Pulling at threads gets you places, Ariadne.
I got a big cheap car that I can put a full size bike in. Trains in the UK carry full size bikes, don't they? Or have locking up places. Both ends?
Little wheels were a 60s fashion, hence the bickerton, moulton and rsw. Folding 'em is another selling point, maybe. Those commuters at our station who apparently needed the wheels seemed 60/40 Brompton/electric scooters. Who really loves electric scooters?


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## srw (21 Jul 2018)

[QUOTE 5321712, member: 45"]Nah. I don't know how any Bromptonette can think that with the prehistoric handlebar clamp staring at you during every stroke.[/QUOTE]
Politics of envy.


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## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2018)

[QUOTE 5321712, member: 45"]Nah. I don't know how any Bromptonette can think that with the prehistoric handlebar clamp staring at you during every stroke.[/QUOTE]
It could possibly be wiser to just look where you're going instead of pretending you're a head-down Chris Froome.


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## Blue Hills (22 Jul 2018)

Conradm said:


> Trains in the UK carry full size bikes, don't they? Or have locking up places. Both ends?


In theory, yes. In reality booking a bike on most intercity services these days is a complete pig.


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## Tim Hall (22 Jul 2018)

raleighnut said:


> A blue one,
> 
> 
> View attachment 420404


I think @Flying Dodo has a Bickerton. A serious amount of reengineering/pimping has been carried out to make it into a rideable machine.


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## Alan O (22 Jul 2018)

Hmm, resurrected thread indeed...

The price of a Brompton, like the price of anything, is set at what the market will stand. And as there are a lot of people out there who really like them and there's relatively little competition (Is there any competition at the top-end of the folder market?), the price the market will stand is relatively high.


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## srw (22 Jul 2018)

Alan O said:


> Is there any competition at the top-end of the folder market?


There are Airnimals and Terns, which make the Brompton look cheap.


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## PaulM (22 Jul 2018)

And Birdys ...


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## alicat (22 Jul 2018)

> Trains in the UK carry full size bikes, don't they? Or have locking up places. Both ends?



What prompted me to get a Brompton was the experience of having to rush to jam my bike in a normal carriage after I realised that nobody was going to open the bike carriage on the Pendolino for my bike reservation.


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## Kell (22 Jul 2018)

You could lock up a bike at both ends of your journey. I see several people on my train that do that. But then you're maintaining two bikes rather than one - arguably each would go twice as long before a service though. The biggest worry of that for me is wondering whether or not your bike will be there when you come back to it.

Most train companies only allow folders during rush hour - and mine was going to introduce a new rule about those too. At the time I had a full-size Dahon and they said they were going to bring in a rule which meant only those bikes with 20" and less wheels would be allowed. Or only those that had a two-fold system rather than a single fold.

That was the final nail in the coffin for me thinking about getting another full-size folder. They weren't cheap and I didn't fancy the idea of buying one and then being told I couldn't use it.


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## Julia9054 (22 Jul 2018)

I wanted a cheap (<£500) folder and got Evans to get a Dahon in for me to look at. It wouldn't even fit in the back of my car. Went to Cycle Heaven and the guy did the whole Brompton hard sell on me and it made perfect sense. It was a frivolous and extravagant purchase (I didn't really need a folder) but it makes me happy.


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## srw (22 Jul 2018)

Kell said:


> You could lock up a bike at both ends of your journey. I see several people on my train that do that


You could. But in the case of your (and my) London terminus station you need a season ticket issued by the National Rail operator to do it inside the station. Which excludes both those of us who don't commute five days a week and those of us who travel from an underground station.

The security point also excludes anyone who doesn't have secure parking at their final destination. In my 20+ years of Brompton commuting I have literally never locked it up. I suspect that if I'd been using a full-sized bike I'd have lost about one per year to a thief - which even if I bought gaspipe specials means that the three Bromptons I've bought have paid for themselves - even discounting the fact that my first one paid for itself within a year in a cheaper season ticket, and the next two years of commuting paid for the second one.


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## doginabag (23 Jul 2018)

I must say, I don't understand people getting so up tight about the existence of a product they neither want or need. 

Makes me wonder if I should be signing up on www.coffeechat.net and having a moan about fancy coffee machines because I'm happy enough with a jar of instant.


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## Julia9054 (23 Jul 2018)

doginabag said:


> I must say, I don't understand people getting so up tight about the existence of a product they neither want or need.
> 
> Makes me wonder if I should be signing up on www.coffeechat.net and having a moan about fancy coffee machines because I'm happy enough with a jar of instant.


See also the currently running smart phone thread!


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## Kell (23 Jul 2018)

srw said:


> You could. But in the case of your (and my) London terminus station you need a season ticket issued by the National Rail operator to do it inside the station. Which excludes both those of us who don't commute five days a week and those of us who travel from an underground station.



I did not know that. I knew you had to apply for a permit, but hadn't realised you had to be a season ticket holder to do so.


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## Flying Dodo (23 Jul 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> I think @Flying Dodo has a Bickerton. A serious amount of reengineering/pimping has been carried out to make it into a rideable machine.


Replacement stem, fork & handlebars, plus Brompton front wheel and the Kinetics Brompton 8 speed rear wheel. Zooms along very nicely and with velcro dots in strategic places, the bars stay folded when I fold the frame.

Bizarrely, it's had a new lease of life since recently moving to the seaside, as I use it all the time for popping along the promenade to the shops. Prior to that, it's done nothing for 2 years after going up a little hill in the south of France.....
.






I overtook quite a few people going up!


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## TheDoctor (23 Jul 2018)

You did Ventoux on a Bick? Hat!
I thought I did well doing (most of) it on a Brompton!


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## Flying Dodo (24 Jul 2018)

Going downhill, I had to brake to keep below 38 mph, as above that speed I started to get front wheel wobble.


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## jay clock (26 Jul 2018)

srw said:


> You could. But in the case of your (and my) London terminus station you need a season ticket issued by the National Rail operator to do it inside the station. Which excludes both those of us who don't commute five days a week and those of us who travel from an underground station.
> 
> The security point also excludes anyone who doesn't have secure parking at their final destination. In my 20+ years of Brompton commuting I have literally never locked it up. I suspect that if I'd been using a full-sized bike I'd have lost about one per year to a thief - which even if I bought gaspipe specials means that the three Bromptons I've bought have paid for themselves - even discounting the fact that my first one paid for itself within a year in a cheaper season ticket, and the next two years of commuting paid for the second one.


Waterloo has dozens of free racks and open to anyone. And as long a your bike is (or looks) a bit crap it will be fine. Mine is a £300 hybrid with the frame wrapped in electrical tape.


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## robrinay (26 Jul 2018)

I’ve had 4 Moulton f frames, a Bickerton, two APBs, a Pashley Land Rover and four Dahons. I finally realised I was finding alternatives to a Brompton but hadn’t been prepared to spend the money. Upon realising this I sold the last Dahon, the Land Rover and a posh fountain pen (a1930’s Waterman Patrician in Lapis) and bought a Brompton nuff said!


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## simongt (27 Jul 2018)

We've had a Dahon folder, a Giant Halfway, now we have two Bromptons. It's a rare case of you get what you pay for and with our Bromptons, it was money well spent.


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## Drago (27 Jul 2018)

They're expensive because Brompton exist to maximise shareholder value, and the more they can charge per unit the better they can do that. They know how far they can push it before people become unwilling to pay, and walk just south of that line. Theres no mystery to it.


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## cougie uk (1 Aug 2018)

Drago said:


> They're expensive because Brompton exist to maximise shareholder value, and the more they can charge per unit the better they can do that. They know how far they can push it before people become unwilling to pay, and walk just south of that line. Theres no mystery to it.



They're expensive because they're made in London. They could have sold up and let a factory in Taiwan make it for cheaper - but some things are worth paying for.


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## User66445 (1 Aug 2018)

cougie uk said:


> They're expensive because they're made in London. They could have sold up and let a factory in Taiwan make it for cheaper - but some things are worth paying for.


While they didn't sell up, they certainly entered agreements to have Bromptons manufactured in the Republic of China. Hence all the clones.


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## cougie uk (2 Aug 2018)

Are you sure about that ? 

From what I hear Chinese companies pretty much have free rein to copy other products. I doubt they would bother buying the rights and I doubt Brompton would sell ?


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## User66445 (2 Aug 2018)

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neobike

It's a murky story of double-dealing and intrigue...


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## Alan O (2 Aug 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Over the years Brompton have successfully challenged a number of copycat machines, including ones from Neobike that @avole mentions. They had a case against Dahon last year that they dropped.
> 
> Quite why they continue to manufacture in a high wage place like the UK, especially London, puzzles me. But I'm not in the manufacturing business so it's not something I understand. I assume they must able to keep making money that way.


What's Brompton's international market like? Quite a few UK brands are very popular with high-end consumers overseas mainly because they're seen as iconic British brands and the products are made in the UK. I'm sure Burberry labels that said "Made in China", for example, wouldn't sell so well - although Burberry does manufacture in quite a few countries (including China) it's very careful with its labeling.


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2018)

There's a bit more to it than squeeze the punter until the pips squeak.

Brompton has the best customer support of any bike company I know of in terms of parts inventory and published workshop instructions - there's an expanded diagram available online for almost every repair/maintenance task.

All this is a genuine cost to the business which Brompton can presumably only recover from the price of the bike/bits because that's their only source of income.

I believe the heavy metal work is done in South Wales, and paint is also outside London, so Brompton has taken steps to reduce costs while staying in the UK.

As a general point, I'm told China and the Far East is not the bargain to manufacture in it once was, partly due to increasing wage costs.

That's something to be welcomed, given the benefit was based on slave labour.

Eastern Europe is now just as cheap as China, if not cheaper, and one of my ebike company buddies tells me it's almost as cheap to assemble in the UK.

Now there's an innovation.


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## cougie uk (2 Aug 2018)

avole said:


> See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neobike
> 
> It's a murky story of double-dealing and intrigue...



The Scoundrels !


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## simongt (3 Aug 2018)

cougie uk said:


> . They could have sold up and let a factory in Taiwan make it for cheaper


Brompton tried that back in 1991 with Eurotai, but Andrew Ritchie was so dismayed with the quality control & marketing style, he decided to keep Brompton production in the UK. A rare case of 'selling up to a cheap producer for the sake of a lower selling price' not being the standard required by a British firm.


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## mitchibob (4 Aug 2018)

I did the Ride London-Surrey 100 on a Brompton the other day along with thousands more road bikes and a few other Brommies, and I can guarantee I had more fun than the roadies, more kudos from fellow riders and more cheers from the side of the road. That's priceless! Made what would've otherwise felt like a miserable winter training ride into a great experience. Just wouldn't have been the same on a similar value road bike.

But honestly, having had a hard crash on one, even though it could do with a new frame, as it's slightly bent, my first brompton M2L is still perfectly ridable after some headset adjustments and slight front wheel truing after going into the side of a car at 20mph that left me with a cast on each arm (wrist and hand breakages). They are really well made. My newer M6L has done 6,000km in less than a year and has only needed new front break blocks, chain and sprockets so far. All pretty cheap replacements if you're doing them yourself (£35?). Oh, and about £30 quid some some kojaks for summer, and maybe winter. Rest of the bike still looks (after a clean) and rides like it's new. Well, if you don't look at the slightly scuffed SPD pedals. There have been a couple incidents. I'll still probably replace the frame on my M2L, as it does bounce a little more than it should at higher cadences.


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## GM (4 Aug 2018)

mitchibob said:


> I did the Ride London-Surrey 100 on a Brompton the other day along with thousands more road bikes and a few other Brommies, and I can guarantee I had more fun than the roadies, more kudos from fellow riders and more cheers from the side of the road. That's priceless! Made what would've otherwise felt like a miserable winter training ride into a great experience. Just wouldn't have been the same on a similar value road bike.




I've got to agree100% with that. I did the 46 on mine, it was an absolute delight to do!


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## TheDoctor (4 Aug 2018)

You've not lived till you've toured on a Brompton.
And you've not nearly died till you've done Ventoux on a Brompton...


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## mjr (6 Sep 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> You've not lived till you've toured on a Brompton.
> And you've not nearly died till you've done Ventoux on a Brompton...


When are you doing the Angliru and Zoncolan to complete the set? ;-)


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## rogerzilla (9 Sep 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> You've not lived till you've toured on a Brompton.
> And you've not nearly died till you've done Ventoux on a Brompton...



I've done the Langdon Beck road (the joint highest in England) on a 3-speed steel S-type. I had to stop ten times on the way up.


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## TheDoctor (9 Sep 2018)

M6R for me.
I had ridden myself a bit fitter on the preceding six days, but I had also had a beer, a Pastis and a litre of cheap red the night before...


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## Elybazza61 (10 Sep 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> There's a bit more to it than squeeze the punter until the pips squeak.
> 
> Brompton has the best customer support of any bike company I know of in terms of parts inventory and published workshop instructions - there's an expanded diagram available online for almost every repair/maintenance task.
> 
> ...



Lot of sense in this^

Our "Light Blue' bikes are manufactured in Taiwan but apparently it's a nightmare getting stuff (ie designs/adaptions) done quickly so it may be that relatively small production items like bikes may soon be as cheap to make in Europe than the far East.

Dunno how Brexit might affect this though (sure Boris/Rees--Mogg etc have an answer)


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## rogerzilla (10 Sep 2018)

Brompton are adopting an increasingly customer-hostile approach now. You can no longer buy a lot of spare parts such as stems and rear hinges unless you have them supplied and fitted at an official dealer for ££££ "to ensure it meets the quality standards". Compare this to the car industry, where they will gladly sell you any part you like (and it is more likely to be safety-critical as far as other people are concerned).

Ever since the beginning they've adopted a borderline illegal policy of refusing to supply retailers who discount the price of the bikes. Spa fell out with Brompton, bigtime.


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## chriscross1966 (11 Sep 2018)

rogerzilla said:


> Brompton are adopting an increasingly customer-hostile approach now. You can no longer buy a lot of spare parts such as stems and rear hinges unless you have them supplied and fitted at an official dealer for ££££ "to ensure it meets the quality standards". Compare this to the car industry, where they will gladly sell you any part you like (and it is more likely to be safety-critical as far as other people are concerned).
> 
> Ever since the beginning they've adopted a borderline illegal policy of refusing to supply retailers who discount the price of the bikes. Spa fell out with Brompton, bigtime.


Having got the tools (and experience using them) to do some of the supposed dealer fit parts i can sort of see the point. Some of the things you need to do the job properly are not commonly found in private hands nor are the skills to use them. The other thing is they are not parts that go quickly, it takes me several years to kill a frame pivot or seatpost liner, and the only reason I've needed a frame or handlebar stem pin swapped out was cos i wanted to repaint. It also means someone who know what they are doing has a look at the bike every now and again. The general beef the big chains have is that they can't get better terms out of Brompton than a dealer that has been selling them in ones and twos for over twenty five years, they are very loyal to their dealers, because they know that a strong local dealer network is imperitive for a company that makes commuter bikes. If you ride it to work every day then it really needs fixing in a day... drop off in the morning, borrow a demo bike to get to work, pick up on the way home... the box-shifting chains cant really do that so why should Brompton give them a better deal than the place that can?


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