# T Line Full Titanium Brompton incoming!



## bikegang (5 Jan 2022)

T Line Full Titanium will be announced at Jan 19. (#Brompton)


----------



## cheys03 (5 Jan 2022)

Oooooow, can we expect the main frame to be titanium too? I’ll list the kidney


----------



## T4tomo (5 Jan 2022)

Wonder if they will sell a frame only version so I can decamped the rest of my 2005 superlight onto it?

I imagine not, they will want about £3k+ for a full bike I reckon.


----------



## rogerzilla (5 Jan 2022)

I wonder how they will make it stiff enough? Ti is only about half as stiff as steel so is always oversized when used in bike frames (you can also retain stiffness by increasing wall thickness, but that gives you a frame of similar weight to steel, so there's no point).

But the fold severely restricts any change in dimensions that you can make, unless it's a ground-up redesign. And I don't think Brompton has the will or ability to do that.

My guess: it'll cost over £3,750. The early ones will break in use.


----------



## cheys03 (5 Jan 2022)

Tantalising when viewed at 0.25 speed. D-shaped tube and lots of girth. Could be interesting, if true.


----------



## FrankCrank (6 Jan 2022)

Helix have done a full Titatium folder, but that was a scratch build jobby. Not sure if a homage Brommie can be achieved like this - for reasons already stated. As the Helix uses 24" wheels, and Brommies are 16", reckon a gap exists for a 20" titanium folder variant, which might prove a better overall compromise.


----------



## Arrowfoot (6 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> I wonder how they will make it stiff enough? Ti is only about half as stiff as steel so is always oversized when used in bike frames (you can also retain stiffness by increasing wall thickness, but that gives you a frame of similar weight to steel, so there's no point).
> 
> But the fold severely restricts any change in dimensions that you can make, unless it's a ground-up redesign. And I don't think Brompton has the will or ability to do that.
> 
> My guess: it'll cost over £3,750. The early ones will break in use.


I have the same thoughts. It's not an easy material material to work with including welding. Labour cost will be high as it not just straight tubing.


----------



## steveindenmark (6 Jan 2022)

As usual they will already be earmarked for certain people. They will then appear for sale at a huge mark up 6 months later. This is how Brompton releases seem to go now.


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Jan 2022)

A mere CHPT3 is £4000 if you buy from the eBay spivs.


----------



## Cycleops (6 Jan 2022)

A full tit Brompton. How exciting. I’m with one of the commenters on the YT video who said: ‘I’m so excited I’m going to vomit’.


----------



## T4tomo (6 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> Ti is only about half as stiff as steel so is always oversized when used in bike frames (you can also retain stiffness by increasing wall thickness, but that gives you a frame of similar weight to steel, so there's no point).


This has always been Will Butler-Adam's reasoning for retaining steel frame in the past. Whilst it may seem over engineered, its is just a bar and not a triangle so has to be stiff & strong. 
Alu would potentially make it lighter, but to get the required strength, you would need a lot thicker tube walls, so the weight saving would be limited and you would destroy the ride quality through less compliance.


----------



## Arrowfoot (6 Jan 2022)

Back of envelope calculation, my guess is it will be limited model edition if it is foldable and goes below £5k for entry model.


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Jan 2022)

Stiffness isn't just about making it good to ride and avoiding ghost shifts/brake rub. It's also about avoiding fatigue failures by limiting strain. Aluminium frames aren't super-stiff because riders wanted stiffer frames; they are stiff to protect themselves from cracking.

Ti may have a theoretical fatigue limit but a skinny, whippy Ti frame will still have a short life, especially where weakened at the welds.


----------



## berlinonaut (6 Jan 2022)

FrankCrank said:


> Helix have done a full Titatium folder, but that was a scratch build jobby. Not sure if a homage Brommie can be achieved like this - for reasons already stated. As the Helix uses 24" wheels, and Brommies are 16", reckon a gap exists for a 20" titanium folder variant, which might prove a better overall compromise.


This gap has been closed already a while ago with the Burke 20" https://seattle-cycles.squarespace.com/products#burke20 
They do btw. have a 16" version, too. However, both are far from being cheap. And their prices may lead to people that constantly complain about excessive Brompton prices changing their mind.  Joke - probably that complaining about everything Brompton does oder doesn't has become second nature of some already and there's absolutly nothing to change that habit.


----------



## Tenkaykev (6 Jan 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> This gap has been closed already a while ago with the Burke 20" https://seattle-cycles.squarespace.com/products#burke20
> They do btw. have a 16" version, too. However, both are far from being cheap. And their prices may lead to people that constantly complain about excessive Brompton prices changing their mind.  Joke - probably that complaining about everything Brompton does oder doesn't has become second nature of some already and there's absolutly nothing to change that habit.


It’s the “ well it only used to cost twelve shillings “ mindset. When you realise what you’re getting for your money you realise what an absolute bargain a Brompton was and, to a slightly lesser extent, still is. 
Some people are happy to spend several grand on a super duper carbon frame bike with trendy branding and a “ designed in “ Italy / USA sticker, but in reality manufactured in the Far East, and that’s fine. 
All Brompton are doing is readjusting prices to reflect the true vale of a product that is built in one of the most expensive cities in the world, by employees who are being paid a fair wage. The resale value and the fact that people are willing to pay over list price reflects this reality.


----------



## FrankCrank (7 Jan 2022)

It's been a long time since I welded any Ti, and that was with orbital welding gear, not 'by hand' as it were. Everything has to be set up perfect to achieve decent, trustworthy welds, way more so than with other metals. QC will be a major factor in all of the production process. Wondering if stainless might be a better option.


----------



## Schwinnsta (7 Jan 2022)

Why would stainless better?


----------



## FrankCrank (7 Jan 2022)

Stainless is easier to weld. It is readily available. Is a lot cheaper. Similar tube sizes for say, a Brompton clone, can be used. No paint needed. A metallurgist would be needed to comment on the relative strengths when compared to other steel types. Regular DF bikes have been built in stainless, but maybe an issue for a folding bikes, ie fatigue failure in the hinge area? - not sure on this one. I built my recumbent trike and LWB in stainless - no issues. One thing I remember from my career as a welder, many moons ago, the machinists hated Ti - a very tough material on the lathe trying to prep up a weld joint. Anyways, all grist to the mill


----------



## IanSmithCSE (7 Jan 2022)

Good morning,

Are titanium welding and machining skills along with equipment an issue as the P Line already has a titanium rear frame and forks?

I am not a Brompton guru and have no idea if these parts are made in-house or bought in and if the main frame would be made in the same place.

Bye

Ian


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Are titanium welding and machining skills along with equipment an issue as the P Line already has a titanium rear frame and forks?
> I am not a Brompton guru and have no idea if these parts are made in-house or bought in and if the main frame would be made in the same place.


These parts used to be bought from external companies in Russia and China but today they are made in the uk by a subsidiary of Brompton the Brompton Fletcher Limited (it is a joint venture between Brompton and Fletcher to be precise). It is a smallish company and they do the Brompton ti-parts for a couple of years already. They should have the knowledge to do a full frame, too.


----------



## rogerzilla (7 Jan 2022)

There have been Ti fork issues. The usual issue is that the steerer stretches where the stem is expanded (they really need to lose that quill stem). You can buy reinforcing sleeves for the steerer.

The main frame (and stem, if they do that too) is far more challenging because of its size, the hinged joints and the much higher bending and twisting stresses.

My guess is that it will be priced to cover at least one warranty replacement. That's not unusual practice in the bike industry.


----------



## IanSmithCSE (7 Jan 2022)

Good morning,


berlinonaut said:


> These parts used to be bought from external companies in Russia and China but today they are made in the uk by a subsidiary of Brompton the Brompton Fletcher Limited (it is a joint venture between Brompton and Fletcher to be precise). It is a smallish company and they do the Brompton ti-parts for a couple of years already. They should have the knowledge to do a full frame, too.


Thanks for this.

https://find-and-update.company-inf...any/08783922/persons-with-significant-control and https://www.cwfletcher.co.uk/

Seems to suggest that they may have some capabilities in titanium. 

Bye

Ian


----------



## T4tomo (7 Jan 2022)

Schwinnsta said:


> Why would stainless better?


Indeed, other than being shiny, it doesn't offer any advantage over the regular painted steel mainframe and it isn't any lighter, which is the aim of the game.


----------



## rogerzilla (7 Jan 2022)

T4tomo said:


> Indeed, other than being shiny, it doesn't offer any advantage over the regular painted steel mainframe and it isn't any lighter, which is the aim of the game.


Reynolds 953, their lightest tubeset*, is stainless. The top Moulton models are also stainless (although there are reports of them rusting).

*although they can't currently supply it due to material shortages


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> There have been Ti fork issues. The usual issue is that the steerer stretches where the stem is expanded (they really need to lose that quill stem). You can buy reinforcing sleeves for the steerer.


These issues were related to the classic expander cone that Brompton used. In 2019 they switched the cone type to (sloped) wedge and the problem seems to be gone (not totally sure about the correct words - I am at the limit of my English here ). Also interesting that those issues arose more or less mostly after the move to the ti-production back to the UK. There have been older bikes with those issues, mainly they became public after like 2017. Also, Brompton at that time published different torque levels for steel and ti bikes - until then this was not the case.


rogerzilla said:


> My guess is that it will be priced to cover at least one warranty replacement. That's not unusual practice in the bike industry.


Do you have any examples?


----------



## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

T4tomo said:


> Indeed, other than being shiny, it doesn't offer any advantage over the regular painted steel mainframe and it isn't any lighter, which is the aim of the game.


I'd say the aim of the game is the bling factor and exclusivity. After all how often do you have to carry it ?


----------



## T4tomo (7 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> Reynolds 953, their lightest tubeset*, is stainless. The top Moulton models are also stainless (although there are reports of them rusting).
> 
> *although they can't currently supply it due to material shortages



Hmm interesting....





Supply issue aside, maybe brommie should be investigating if they can make a thinner walled (and hence lighter) mainframe from 953 steel that still gives the required strength & durability.


----------



## T4tomo (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> I'd say the aim of the game is the bling factor and exclusivity. After all how often do you have to carry it ?




Really, how often do you carry a regular road bike - weight seems to be pretty important in the marketing / buying decision / performance etc etc of those, its no different with a Brompton, infact even more important as you do carry it sometimes and man handle it on and off train etc for the reasonable proportion who commute on them, take them on canal boats / campervans / caravans etc

Why would they market the current part titanium titanium as "superlight" rather than "superexclusive" or "superbling"?


----------



## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

Weight is only important on any bike when climbing hills, I'd have thought even you might know that. Lifting it on and off a train takes but a few minutes.
Bromptons are bought as mainly commuter city bikes, not general purpose sports bikes.
As for naming I doubt Mr Double barrel in marketing wouldn't find much favour with your suggested names.


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> I'd say the aim of the game is the bling factor and exclusivity. After all how often do you have to carry it ?


On a daily basis, on regular days at least four times a day, in total about 350 stairs. So yes, weight does matter to me on a Brompton. Bling on the other hand is not at all relevant to me.


----------



## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

Fair enough, that's you but maybe other commuters might not have the same experience. 
I guess buyers who might have to carry it a lot will have to weigh up (pun intended) developing upper body strength as opposed to forking out the extra dosh.


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Weight is only important on any bike when climbing hills, I'd have thought even you might know that.


Sounds a bit ignorant, ignoring wider parts of the reality.


Cycleops said:


> Bromptons are bought as mainly commuter city bikes, not general purpose sports bikes.


The Brompton audience has changed, so more and more have a Brompton as their main and only bike which also includes use as general exercise bike.


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Fair enough, that's you but maybe other commuters might not have the same experience.
> I guess buyers who might have to carry it a lot will have to weigh up (pun intended) developing upper body strength as opposed to forking out the extra dosh.


Well, as far as I know you don't even own a Brompton and have also no plans to buy one. So I guess your needs and opinions may possibly be not the most relevant ones in regards of Bromptons. For one as you are no customer and second because you have no experience with the bike.


----------



## T4tomo (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Weight is *only* important on any bike when climbing hills, I'd have thought even you might know that.


I knows more than that 'cos you is wrong, as well as bit rude.
@berlinonaut has pointed out the errors of your thinking above.


----------



## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> Well, as far as I know you don't even own a Brompton and have also no plans to buy one. So I guess your needs and opinions may possibly be not the most relevant ones in regards of Bromptons. For one as you are no customer and second because you have no experience with the bike.


I may not have a Brompton but I do have a folding kiddywheeler which I have used extensively and I have ridden a Brompton. It has disc brakes and eight speed hub, something Brompton hasn’t got around to yet.
You’re obviously a Brompton fanboy, either that or a Brompton bot, so I do like to pull your chain. Sorry about that. Come on Berlin engage that famous German sense of humour


----------



## rogerzilla (7 Jan 2022)

I think weight is very important on a folder. I have taken a Brompton on the Tube in London. You are not permitted to go on the escalators when carrying a folding bike. It is not much fun lugging 26lb in one hand, up hundreds of steps


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> You’re obviously a Brompton fanboy, either that or a Brompton bot, so I do like to pull your chain.


It seems you are vastly overestimating the relevance of your personal opinion and need to fortify your relevance by insulting others (in a row) w/o any foundation. Obviously you like your BF Tikit (bought secondhand at a bagain price if I remember correctly) whereas I am a bit underimpressed with my BF Tikit, given that it suffers from massive design issues that cause security risks, has a rear frame that is broken in three areas and folds very quick but is then a lump of a package.
On the other hand I do own a Brompton with disk brakes among others and while they are fine in all honesty they do in daily usage deliver nothing that I would have missed on my other Bromptons.

The famous German sense of humor is dangerous once you trigger it - I am thankful that you at least avoided to mention the war.


----------



## Tenkaykev (7 Jan 2022)

I don’t own a car but I did learn to drive many years ago. I passed my test but haven’t driven since. However, having once driven a car I feel qualified to pontificate about vehicles that I don't own, and when called out on it, to pen snide Ad Hominem attacks against fellow forum members.
/s


----------



## rogerzilla (7 Jan 2022)

Just looked at the Hummingbird folding bike. It is almost 10lb lighter than an average Brompton, but the fold is truly hopeless. I'm surprised it's allowed on trains. I still don't understand how Brompton manages to use copyright to protect their fold (the patent is long gone) since one of the principles of copyright is that form-following-function is exempt. You can't make something that folds in the same way without it looking enough like a Brompton for them to call their lawyers. Unless you're in China, of course, where copyright is an irrelevance.


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> I think weight is very important on a folder. I have taken a Brompton on the Tube in London. You are not permitted to go on the escalators when carrying a folding bike. It is not much fun lugging 26lb in one hand, up hundreds of steps


I didn't know that. you can take suitcases on the escalators can't you?
(as a student me and a mate took a large table down the escalators at warren street - but those days of innocence are long gone I suppose)


----------



## berlinonaut (7 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> I still don't understand how Brompton manages to use copyright to protect their fold (the patent is long gone) since one of the principles of copyright is that form-following-function is exempt. You can't make something that folds in the same way without it looking enough like a Brompton for them to call their lawyers. Unless you're in China, of course, where copyright is an irrelevance.


Brompton has learned the hard way that the Dahon Curl offers enough of a difference to be legally sold in Europe whereas Chedtech has learned the hard way that their Carbon Brompton clone is too close to the original. Something that other cloners had to learn years earlier as well (the patent had gone back then already). At bikeforums.net recently there was an interesting thread about "Andrew Richie styled folders"  (well it was interesting in the beginning until it went berzerk). There was an extensive but still not comprehensive list of "brands" that build clone Bromptons in it. The interesting thing is that in my eyes all those cloners really try to build purposefully a "fake original" whereas Dahon indeed built something that is clearly, massively (and maybe shamefully) inspired by the Brompton but also is clearly different in relevant aspects. And typically Dahon it has some chaos in the lineup and a bunch of inconveniences in construction and usage. Interestingly they seem not to be really successful in selling the Curl and definitively not in the price region of the Brompton as they initially tried (and even less as "the better Brompton" as they initially tried as well in a kind of ridiculous video). But the Curl is the proof that you _can_ use the form and folding principle of the Brompton legally - if you are different and do not simply copy and clone.

What Brompton does - and I think they are right with that - is to defend their unique shape of the bike as part of the brand and intellectual property. That does not hinder innovations but it stops plain copiers that simply want to profit from Brompton's "fame" and image w/o own innovation. Land Rover did btw. the same in China when Landwind directly cloned the shape and appearance of an earlier version of their Discovery a couple of years ago and succeeded with suing that behaviour even in China. I think (if I remember correctly) even "After Eight" has done the same with products that copied their appearance and were sold at discounters for a cheap price. And all _they_ have is a square piece of chocolate with mint in it in a dark green packaging.  Since being taken over by Nestle they even have changed their traditional recipe for cheaper, less healthy ingredients to rise profits.
The really interesting thing is that until now nobody has managed to successfully create a folder that folds as good or better than the Brompton and is better in other aspects (be it price, riding or whatever) w/o copying the Brompton. The only one I am aware of who went down a totally new and different approach with a promising outcome is Peter Boutakis with the Helix and he has probably had a very hard time over the last six years, until now still not having managed to build and ship more than about half of the 1.x00 bikes he sold in his campaign at Kickstarter back in 2015. Apart from that a great folder and bike, but not of much practical use in daily life until now. Thus not really a competition or replacement for the Brompton for most people. And not on the cheap side of life as well.


----------



## Schwinnsta (7 Jan 2022)

FrankCrank said:


> Stainless is easier to weld. It is readily available. Is a lot cheaper. Similar tube sizes for say, a Brompton clone, can be used. No paint needed. A metallurgist would be needed to comment on the relative strengths when compared to other steel types. Regular DF bikes have been built in stainless, but maybe an issue for a folding bikes, ie fatigue failure in the hinge area? - not sure on this one. I built my recumbent trike and LWB in stainless - no issues. One thing I remember from my career as a welder, many moons ago, the machinists hated Ti - a very tough material on the lathe trying to prep up a weld joint. Anyways, all grist to the mill


If you're saying this compared to ti, then yes. I see no advantage compared to plain steel. Stainless still rusts (stains less) and it cost more than plain. Stainless costs a lot more than plain steel here.


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Jan 2022)

I think the weight of a B is a significant downside. When I was doing my long complicated train and Brompton commute I certainly felt the weight of the thing going up and down stairs. And I'm a fairly hefty male, I can imagine other riders feeling it even more.

I'd love to magic it into a lighter bike. But I'm not so keen on paying zillions of squid for lightness.


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> I think weight is very important on a folder. I have taken a Brompton on the Tube in London. You are not permitted to go on the escalators when carrying a folding bike. It is not much fun lugging 26lb in one hand, up hundreds of steps


I didn't know that. I've been on escalators* a lot with mine and no one told me off. Now I know this, I'll have a massive guilty/shifty look about me when I do it and will get arrested and locked up.

* In railway stations, but not on the tube. Not sure I've ever taken my B on the tube.


----------



## FrankCrank (8 Jan 2022)

Schwinnsta said:


> If you're saying this compared to ti, then yes. I see no advantage compared to plain steel. Stainless still rusts (stains less) and it cost more than plain. Stainless costs a lot more than plain steel here.


Here it's cheap as chips, used everywhere, suits the climate.


----------



## FrankCrank (8 Jan 2022)

If you compare the first diamond frame bike to a modern bike, I can't believe what I'm seeing. Blatant copy. Two round wheels with rubber tyres, bars in front for your hands, saddle to sit on......the list just goes on. How do they get away with it?

Perhaps calling Brommie looky likies 'three point folders' will ease the pain for fanboys.


----------



## Arrowfoot (8 Jan 2022)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good morning,
> 
> Are titanium welding and machining skills along with equipment an issue as the P Line already has a titanium rear frame and forks?
> 
> ...


Welding Ti requirements and skills was vastly different. Litespeed, Lynskey among the Americans and Van Nichols Dutch had it nailed down. British Ti in those years had welds fail over time. Manufacturers would fix a joint and another joint will fail and eventually warranty would run out.

We have a CC member who worked for a well known British Ti bike company for years but owns 2 Ti from reputable foreign manufacturers. That says alot.

Yes, welding Ti is expensive.

I am sure they have improved and don’t see the complaints noW as in the past.


----------



## rogerzilla (8 Jan 2022)

A possible advantage is that the largest component requiring welding, the rear part of the main frame assembly, is much smaller than any diamond frame and may fit into a purge tank to avoid oxygen contamination. Normally a flow of gas has to be used to form a shield, and that can be disrupted by a draught or just done carelessly.

There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.


----------



## berlinonaut (8 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.


On the other hand: ti Bromptons are on the market since 2005 with fork and rear frame being ti. How many ti Bromptons are you aware of that broke at the welds of the ti-parts? I do know of one and would not testify it was really the weld that failed. Titanium is more difficult to weld than steel, that's why traditionally these parts were sourced from Russia and China, as in these countries there was expertise with working with titanium through the military and aerospace industry. Over the last years this knowledge has spread a bit further around the world plus especially in China a load of companies hit the market that do build custom ti-frames to spec and later others that offer standard ti-parts. Not surprising that during that scaling and learning phase issues happened, especially with the less experienced. Not surprising that some of those companies may take shortcuts, either in production or in quality management (especially given that a lot of them gain their market via a cheap price) or overestimate their own abilities - something that is not uncommon in bike forums, too. 

Clearly, ti is a more difficult material to work with than steel but on the other hand I would trust Brompton that they know what they are doing. Especially given the fact that they do have a ti lineup for more than 15 years already and that with Fletcher they have a partner that is very competent in that area plus they have a lot to loose in terms of reputation. Of course that's all worth nothing as they unacceptably failed to consult the self-promoted experts of this very forum, so there's no doubt that all bikes will fail immediately and whoever buys one is supposed to die when using it. Shameful, really.


----------



## bikegang (8 Jan 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> On a daily basis, on regular days at least four times a day, in total about 350 stairs. So yes, weight does matter to me on a Brompton. Bling on the other hand is not at all relevant to me.


+1
I don't mind to own a rather heavy road bike but definitely like to have a lighter brompton since I do carry it around boarding train to ride the country side or oversea.


----------



## rogerzilla (8 Jan 2022)

I hope it will have a lifetime frame warranty and, by "lifetime", I don't mean the one some Ti bike manufacturers use, which means "for the useful lifetime of the frame, which is when we determine that we don't want to replace or repair it."


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> I hope it will have a lifetime frame warranty and, by "lifetime", I don't mean the one some Ti bike manufacturers use, which means "for the useful lifetime of the frame, which is when we determine that we don't want to replace or repair it."


i can't be the only one who wonders who that is.
Do tell.


----------



## FrankCrank (8 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> A possible advantage is that the largest component requiring welding, the rear part of the main frame assembly, is much smaller than any diamond frame and may fit into a purge tank to avoid oxygen contamination. Normally a flow of gas has to be used to form a shield, and that can be disrupted by a draught or just done carelessly.
> 
> There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.


If I recall correctly, the Helix is welded in a purge tank, and all done by robot I believe, out in that there Canadia.


----------



## rogerzilla (8 Jan 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> i can't be the only one who wonders who that is.


https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-the-sad-reality-of-a-liftime-frame-warranty/

But many manufacturers will use a similar excuse.

There's a long thread about another brand on YACF. It cracked, was welded under warranty, cracked again in the same place (predictably; heating up fatigued metal again isn't going to be any more than a get-you-home fix) and then the manufacturer wouldn't do any more. The original warranty was "lifetime" which, again, turned out to mean "lifetime of the frame". That manufacturer has now changed to a limited 10 year warranty.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121775.0


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Jan 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-the-sad-reality-of-a-liftime-frame-warranty/
> 
> But many manufacturers will use a similar excuse.
> 
> ...


thanks - those cases are all rather too like that old joke about the watch with a lifetime guarantee - when the mainspring goes a blade slashes your wrist.
I won't be buying any titanium, nice as it looks.


----------



## Schwinnsta (9 Jan 2022)

There is more changes than meet the eye.


----------



## berlinonaut (9 Jan 2022)

Schwinnsta said:


> There is more changes than meet the eye.


well, that video is about the P-line that has been invented back in November. This thread is about the T-line that will be invented on Jan 19th presumably. But it clearly is true that the P-line differs in many many areas from the C-line (aka "normal" Bromptons) and thus proofs once more those wrong who continuously claim that no changes would have been made on the Brompton since it's invention.


----------



## Schwinnsta (9 Jan 2022)

Sorry, I did post into the wrong thread.


----------



## rualexander (13 Feb 2022)

This video gives a fairly good look at the new T-line Brompton.

View: https://youtu.be/k5VCsB_0xl4


----------



## u_i (14 Feb 2022)

rualexander said:


> This video gives a fairly good look at the new T-line Brompton.



Thanks for the link. I take my Brompton to places where the nearest Brompton dealer is half a globe away. Already the original rear carrier, before I modified it, has not been taking air travel well, getting distorted and incapacitating the rear wheel every second trip. With the above, I might not walk over to the T-line ever. I like the inventiveness, though. I hope to benefit somehow at the offshoot level, even if just slightly improving what I had already ahead of the T-line. (Did these get there through those Brompton questionnaires asking customers how to improve their products ?)


----------

