# Traning programme



## aka0019 (22 Nov 2009)

Hi all, 

At present I cycle to and from work 5 days a week. The ride is 12 miles there and 12 back. At present I just sort of have a steady ride there and back with the odd sprint here and there. I also attend a training session with my club on a wed night so do about 50 miles that night which includes the training. I know that I should be mixing things up a bit on my way to and from work but not sure what to do. Does anyone have any suggestions/advice? 

Thanks
Andrew


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## lukesdad (22 Nov 2009)

Depends on what your training for.


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## Dayvo (22 Nov 2009)

You could mix the ride up with some climbing/uphill sprinting in short bursts, if you have that kind of terrain available.


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## aka0019 (22 Nov 2009)

Sorry I should have said. I want to start racing next year. I have only been cycling since April, I will be racing in the TLI league. 

Yes I have some hills, most on the way to work though so downhill coming home. I've heard about interval traning, will that help? I would like to make a plan of what i will do each day if possible.


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## lukesdad (22 Nov 2009)

You re going to open a can of worms here hope your ready for it!

Before you go into specifics,(which I would do with some of your more expeirienced clubmates)they will be able to identify your strengths and weaknesses.You need to work out what you are aiming to achieve at each particular point of the season.

As we are in winter now (Unless you are doing cyclo cross or xc)most racers are working on base training and core strength. If you go back into the posts in this section you will find plenty of usefull info on these subjects.

I would say you need to increase your mileage to include what has allready been said hills etc. resistance training is always good for building your strength. 

Come the spring you should be looking to tune your training to peaking for your first race remembering to taper down in the last week.There are loads of different plans around for this but again you need help from someone who knows you and your personal preferences different things work for different people;for example I hate doing weights or any gym work I cross train in winter (swimming running aswell as using cross trainer and turbo trainer when I cant get out on the bike) average 300 miles aweek on bike this time of year. (goes up to about 450 in early spring drrop the cross training) late spring tend to concentrate on specfics. then work on three week cycles trying to tie a race in at the end of each cycle.

Best of luck let us know how you get on.


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## ttcycle (22 Nov 2009)

yes agree with Lukesdad - now is the time to get the miles in at an easy, steady not quick pace to build a solid base to work from - mix it up a bit with some running or swimming and possibly some light weight training to build strength not bulk up.

Good luck!!

There's tons of info out there but I'd focus on getting some miles in first of all (and remember to get plenty of good food and decent rest days)


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## Bill Gates (23 Nov 2009)

aka0019 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> At present I cycle to and from work 5 days a week. The ride is 12 miles there and 12 back. At present I just sort of have a steady ride there and back with the odd sprint here and there. I also attend a training session with my club on a wed night so do about 50 miles that night which includes the training. I know that I should be mixing things up a bit on my way to and from work but not sure what to do. Does anyone have any suggestions/advice?
> 
> ...




The same miles commute that I used to have on a straight there and back basis. This time of the year that's all you need. It won't do any harm of course to go out at the weekend as well but anything you do now in the way of serious training is IMO a waste of time and could even be counter productive. 

Think about it.

Most riders would do around 2000 miles or 100/120 hours as their base before building up the intensity to train for speed and racing. Work back from the date for your first planned race then see where you need to start the regular base building miles. If you are going to race early season, let's say April, then there is no need to start the build up until 12 weeks before, and that is after Christmas, Jan 1st.

Grinding out the miles when it's wet and windy and even dangerous conditions is just not worth it. There are icy roads to come yet so the chances are that those fitness gains will be get lost. I would agree that other forms of training are very beneficial at this time. I used to play squash and do a bit of running plus gym training. Riding the bike was for just ticking over.

I joined a mate at a new club in 1980 and early season he and a couple of the other fast men were bashing away doing intervals along the dual carriageways having been riding all autumn and winter, while I was still building a base during Feb and Mar and sure enough early season they were flying. Come the Nat 25 TT on the 1st June, and I finished 16th and beat the other riders in the club by 23 seconds, 39 seconds and 2.51. From then on I went on to get club records for 50 miles and 100 miles. IMO they had done too much too early.


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## zacklaws (23 Nov 2009)

From experience I have found a regular route you ride, especially a commuting route, one of the worst to try and improve your cycling on. My experience is that you may start to think your improving your fitness levels by chopping minutes off your time etc but in reality a lot of it is due to becoming too familiar with the route and your techniques have improved, knowing when to change gear, when to stand on hills, going faster round corners etc and eventually you become a cropper. 

My solution was and still is, ride a route several times and then change it when you get that feeling your beginning to push your luck, after riding a few other routes or variations of the original, go back to the original when your not so familiar with it and then see how you perform to judge if your fitness level has improved.


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## aka0019 (24 Nov 2009)

Thanks everyone for the replies, lots of info to take in! I do at present go to the gym and do weights, nothing major though, i'm not planning on bulking up. I thought my 160 miles per week at the minute was a lot, 300 then 450 leading up to the season, bloody hell! 

I'll have a look around and see what other info there is I can find. 

Thanks again and i'll let you know how I get on. One more thing, think i'm going to get some rollers for xmas so will be able to get some more miles done using that.

Andrew


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## lukesdad (24 Nov 2009)

Andrew although my mileage may seem a lot at the moment they are only ridden at a relatively easy pace (for me that is) its what I call my seasons grounding.


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## lukesdad (24 Nov 2009)

I ought to add I race xc as well so a lot of miles are done off road in regards to Daves refrence to icy roads so my fitness levels don t drop.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

aka0019 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, lots of info to take in! I do at present go to the gym and do weights, nothing major though, i'm not planning on bulking up. *I thought my 160 miles per week at the minute was a lot, 300 then 450 leading up to the season, bloody hell! *
> 
> I'll have a look around and see what other info there is I can find.
> 
> ...



It's very easy to get caught up in this weekly mileage thing. No one does this mileage week in week out through autumn/winter/spring. It's a certain recipe for mediocrity. if you want to get fast, then shorter rides at high intensity are what is called for. Sure, when you are in the base building stage then the extra mileage will/may be of benefit. 

Your current 160 miles a week is well enough IMO.


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## jimboalee (25 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> It's very easy to get caught up in this weekly mileage thing. No one does this mileage week in week out through autumn/winter/spring. It's a certain recipe for mediocrity. if you want to get fast, then *shorter rides at high intensity* are what is called for. Sure, when you are in the base building stage then the extra mileage will/may be of benefit.
> 
> Your current 160 miles a week is well enough IMO.



+1.

Higher intensity shorter rides, like 25 TTs, build sustained power.

An AUK rider like myself can ride all day long 300 km at low/med intensity, but don't ask me to ride a 25 TT without letting me do some high intensity intervals within a ride of equal distance to the event.

Increase the intervals steadily until the 25 is one long interval.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> It's very easy to get caught up in this weekly mileage thing. No one does this mileage week in week out through autumn/winter/spring. It's a certain recipe for mediocrity. if you want to get fast, then shorter rides at high intensity are what is called for. Sure, when you are in the base building stage then the extra mileage will/may be of benefit.
> 
> Your current 160 miles a week is well enough IMO.



Hope your speaking for yourself.Work it out I dont drive and I work 40 miles away and I work 4 days a week.The odd day i might take the train and I ride 7 days a week, and I certainly don t know what mediocrity is may be you might be able to explain it to me.

My performances remain constant throughout the season. One of the main reasons I can train like this is because of the cadence that I ride at. Something that the grinders don t take into account with their snapshot number crunching. Recovery periods are much shorter,while we are on the subject of recovery taking a day off is not recovery its rest.To recover properly after a hard ride you need to do a recovery ride,this is where a lot of riders go wrong because they dont conduct them properly.

As Ive said before different things work for different people, and just because something is right for you does not mean it is right for everybody
sometimes you have to think outside the box.

The OP is looking for ideas on his training and Ive just tried to give him a different perspective on it. Sure the majority of people may disagree but, then again as you say the majority of people have never tried training this way for any length of time.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> Hope your speaking for yourself.Work it out I dont drive and I work 40 miles away and I work 4 days a week.The odd day i might take the train and I ride 7 days a week, *and I certainly don t know what mediocrity is may be you might be able to explain it to me.*
> 
> *My performances remain constant throughout the season*. One of the main reasons I can train like this is because of the cadence that I ride at. Something that the grinders don t take into account with their snapshot number crunching. Recovery periods are much shorter,while we are on the subject of recovery taking a day off is not recovery its rest.*To recover properly after a hard ride you need to do a recovery ride,this is where a lot of riders go wrong because they dont conduct them properly.*
> 
> ...



Glad to be of service

Mediocrity - one definition. averageness: ordinariness as a consequence of being average and not outstanding.

You should build towards a peak two or three times of year. Maintaining the same performance all year round is another nail in the coffin of mediocrity.

Cycling mediocrity - Anyone who regularly finishes lower than the first 10% in whatever event you're doing. How many races/events do you compete in and win or come in the top 6 or top 10 or top 10%?

Jury is out on recovery rides. In any case they should be no longer than an hour at a low intensity. Not much of a contribution to your weekly mileage total there.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

As Ive allready said every 3 weeks if poss. Ive certainly never been out of top 10% as far as I am aware Unless a DNF thru a mechanical or like.Won numerous Xc and enduro events and very successfull in the SAMs series over the years bset being a 2nd in the vets.cat. Had a very succesfull career as a junior on the road.

The odd TTs that I do are certainly up to Scratch.Longer road races are slightly different as being part of a team we tend to ride for each other and that depends on courses etc.

We re doing Crits. this year for the first time so should be interesting,but Im confident that Itll suit my style as I have no problem with sudden injections of pace.

Anyway we Digress this is not going to help the OP,as I said at the start a right can of worms.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> As Ive allready said every 3 weeks if poss. Ive certainly never been out of top 10% as far as I am aware Unless a DNF thru a mechanical or like.Won numerous Xc and enduro events and very successfull in the SAMs series over the years bset being a 2nd in the vets.cat. Had a very succesfull career as a junior on the road.
> 
> The odd TTs that I do are certainly up to Scratch.Longer road races are slightly different as being part of a team we tend to ride for each other and that depends on courses etc.
> 
> ...



What are Xc,enduro and SAM events? Apologies for ignorance.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

Mtb races.


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## davidg (25 Nov 2009)

aka0019, I bought this book recently 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-Cycli...UTF8&coliid=I3TV53JF07H92&colid=32GNJ0VW58X8D
and it seems pretty good, although it is all theoritcal reading so far!

but you could definitely get a routine and programme out of that for you goals...

for the price, you cant afford not to get it!!


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## jay clock (25 Nov 2009)

> mix it up a bit with some running or swimming


just do the sensible thing and move to triathlon!

On a serious note, do not underestimate the benefit of that daily commute - excellent training in my view


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> Mtb races.



I don't know anything about Mtb's or Mtb races. I would guess that there are essential differences in riding style and technique from the road, with a greater use of upper body strength in Mtbs; but aerobic fitness would more or less translate well from one to the other.

However if you are serious about the road then along the way, with a structured training programme, there has to be some time devoted to training at LT and VO2max. Hard shorter efforts at the expense of the longer rides. It's the only way to progress to higher levels of success.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

You ve hit the nail on the head High cadence relies on the efficency of the heart and lungs to supply the required ammount of oxygen to the muscles without going anerobic and it does translate to the road very well.
Upper body strength really doesn t come into it as much as weight for obvious reasons.
As i am light and short my main strength is climbing which I relish and use them (hills)when my mileage drops (Mid spring) for as you say hard shorter efforts.
LT and VO2Max training I do when mymileage starts to drop in my 3 week cycles.

You have obviously not understood my original post. I only pointed out my off season riding, and as I explained to the OP did not want to get to detailed in other specifics as I knew nothing about him.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> You ve hit the nail on the head *High cadence relies on the efficency of the heart and lungs to supply the required ammount of oxygen to the muscles without going anerobic* and it does translate to the road very well.
> Upper body strength really doesn t come into it as much as weight for obvious reasons.
> As i am light and short my main strength is climbing which I relish and use them (hills)when my mileage drops (Mid spring) for as you say hard shorter efforts.
> *LT and VO2Max training I do when mymileage starts to drop in my 3 week cycles.*
> ...



At the risk of getting pedantic I don't see how a high cadence can impact on your CV system in the way you mention. Anaerobic is without oxygen and is state of exercise that can be only maintained for very short periods maybe a minute or two maximum, normally seconds.

What you say doesn't make any sense to me.

Re your 4th week of LT and VO2max training after three weeks of long rides. Surely the 4th week of a 4 week cycle is spent doing not very much at all to consolidate strength and fitness gains. LT and VO2max are the last things you should be doing in this 4th week, but rather in the previous three weeks.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

The lungs and heart need to be conditioned as with any other muscle, the more efficent they become the greater the time you can stave off an anaerobic state. The best way to train for this is to increase the time you train aerobicaly and one of the best ways to do this for me where I live (the hills you see) is to pedal at a high cadence,it also has other benefits recovery time being the main one.

Not sure you ve grasped my training programme where does this 4th week come from and where do the 3 weeks of long rides come from. If you re talking about summer its a 3week cycle the 3rd week tapering down. Long rides are kept to a minium.


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## Bill Gates (25 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> *The lungs and heart need to be conditioned as with any other muscle, the more efficent they become the greater the time you can stave off an anaerobic state. The best way to train for this is to increase the time you train aerobicaly *and one of the best ways to do this for me where I live (the hills you see) is to pedal at a high cadence,it also has other benefits recovery time being the main one.
> 
> Not sure you ve grasped my training programme where does this 4th week come from and where do the 3 weeks of long rides come from. If you re talking about summer its a 3week cycle the 3rd week tapering down. Long rides are kept to a minium.



No. That's plain wrong. sorry.

The way you ride it's unlikely you'll be getting anywhere near an anaerobic state which is from an eye balls out (red mist if you like) effort. A high cadence is a function of technique and does not impact on your CV system unless it's in a gear which is raising the HR to a + 75% MHR level as would a lower cadence at the same power levels in the same way.

Pushing back the anaerobic boundaries (training VO2max), is best done by training anaerobically, short very hard efforts, eg. sprint intervals. 

You've got a three week cycle then and not a four week cycle. IOW you ride long rides for 2 weeks and do either LT and Vo2max training or taper (summer months) in week 3 and then back to week 1. Not heard of that one before.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

You havn t listened to a word ive said you ve just spouted off your own doctrine. Its just a totally different way to train that you can t grasp I m not going to keep on repeating myself Im afraid you ll just have to live in ignorance.


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## lukesdad (25 Nov 2009)

Andrew Ive sent you a Pm you may find usefull Regards.


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## Bill Gates (26 Nov 2009)

lukesdad said:


> You havn t listened to a word ive said you ve just spouted off your own doctrine. Its just a totally different way to train that you can t grasp I m not going to keep on repeating myself Im afraid you ll just have to live in ignorance.



Ignorance is bliss.


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## aka0019 (26 Nov 2009)

Thanks again for everyones replies 

And whoever said I would open a can of worms...you weren't wrong!


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## aka0019 (13 Dec 2009)

Went out on a club run today and thought i'd say how it went. There was a few people who race out, one of them being an elite rider and the feedback I received was really promising. They said they think i'll manage no problem in cat 3/4 races and that I have good power in my legs. I have always been unsure on my fitness level as I haven't cycled long so it's a great boost for me and makes me want to race even more! 

Just one thing i'm unsure of now...i've asked for rollers for xmas but was thinking maybe i'd be better off with a turbo so I can have more intense training sessions, any views?


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## Bill Gates (14 Dec 2009)

aka0019 said:


> Went out on a club run today and thought i'd say how it went. There was a few people who race out, one of them being an elite rider and the feedback I received was really promising. They said they think i'll manage no problem in cat 3/4 races and that I have good power in my legs. I have always been unsure on my fitness level as I haven't cycled long so it's a great boost for me and makes me want to race even more!
> 
> *Just one thing i'm unsure of now...i've asked for rollers for xmas but was thinking maybe i'd be better off with a turbo so I can have more intense training sessions, any views?*




Rollers or Turbo? There's enough material there for a whole new thread. 

I was racing before a turbo was invented so rollers were the thing for indoor training. The advantages of *rollers* are: -

* They more closely mirror riding on the road re pedalling cause and effect.

* They help to develop bike handling skills, balance and smoothe riding.

* They don't need any setting up. Simply place them on the floor and put the bike on top.

* Once mastered excellent for a recovery ride or high quality interval training

Disadvantages: -

* Need perserverance initially to gain skill to balance with confidence.

* Constant concentration to keep going without falling off.

*Turbo*

Advantages :-

* Can fully concentrate on effort without worrying about falling off.

* Excellent for high quality interval training.

Disadvantages : -

* Not the same as pedalling on the road

* Need extra time to set the bike up on the machine.

If you are going to get a set of rollers then you need to invest in a set with drums that are quite large and heavy in order to maintain momentum. Small ones require extra effort and therefore harder to maintain sufficient speed to balance on recovery rides.


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## aka0019 (14 Dec 2009)

Thanks Bill, some helpful info there


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## Bill Gates (14 Dec 2009)

aka0019 said:


> Thanks Bill, some helpful info there



FWIW Out of choice I would go for the turbo. I rarely use the rollers now. It's either the turbo or the road.


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