# How can you ride it like that?



## KneesUp (11 Dec 2018)

My judge-y pants are on.

I was walking to the shop this morning (milk) and was passed by a cyclist, and found myself being annoyed at the stake of their bike.

It was a new-ish bike - a year or two old at most. Nicely clean. A road bike, not super expensive, probably a £750 bike. But, you know, that's not an inconsiderable amount of money. Anyway, the first thing I noticed was that there was was too little air in the front tyre - it was bulging so much it seemed only to have enough air to make it not look flat when no-one was on the bike, it was basically flat at the bottom (all my punctures only affect the bottom of the tyre, as it happens) Then I noticed the rear was the same. Then I noticed that the rider had the saddle far, far too low, so their knee was never anywhere near straight. And then I heard the tick-ticking of a chain that was on the big ring at the front and the big ring at the back.

So I got all judge-y - is it just me or do others want to be able to just say look, give me 10 minutes and I'll transform your cycling experience? Obviously I'll never say anything, and they just pedaled off, wrecking their knees, the chain, the cassette, the chain rings and the tyres, but sometimes I want to. Is it just me?


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## ianrauk (11 Dec 2018)

To some, bikes have no value or meaning, they are just transport. They need not clean or look after it. Once ridden into the ground they will get another and do the same.


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## Globalti (11 Dec 2018)

Yes, you frequent bike forums and take an interest in efficient cycling whereas others don't care a hoot. The worst possibility is that the rider had just "acquired" the bike very cheap and was only using it for trips to the pub or the shops.

GtiJunior bought a college bike for £15, the poor thing was in a woeful state of neglect.


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## Katherine (11 Dec 2018)

I always think people who ride with their knees sticking out and sometimes their feet too, look so funny. Then I feel bad because there might be a good reason why.
Once I saw the opposite when someone overtook me who was having to move his hips up and down as he pedalled, although he was sat down on the saddle.


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## beepbeep (11 Dec 2018)

some people are the ''use it and when it gets dirty / needs repairing - just throw it away and get another ''

More money than sense.


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## Milkfloat (11 Dec 2018)

I guy at work buys a new bike every 2 years, in the intervening time there is zero maintenance. He just rides it until it falls to pieces, walks to work for a few weeks and then turns up on a new one. I have been known to put a bit of air in his tyres and a bit of oil on his chain when he is not looking. We have worked together for over 20 years and I have tried a couple of times to suggest a few things, but he honestly does not care. Then again I could not give a crap about Japanese manga and some of the stuff he is into.


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## Sharky (11 Dec 2018)

Brings my OCD on as well, when I see saddles lower than handlebars, rusty chains, handlebars/saddles not level, lights hidden by panniers, riders wearing shorts in December, not enough seat post showing (frame too big).

But riders with knees sticking out - knew/know a rider who you could recognise from a mile away because of his sticking out knees, but he was an extremely gusty rider, riding TT's and massed starts and was a very good club rider.


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## raleighnut (11 Dec 2018)

It's dry squealing chains that 'get' me.


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## snorri (11 Dec 2018)

I don't necessarily blame the owners for the poor state of their bikes, they are victims of marketing in this country which tells us our bikes should be sporty and lightweight rather than sturdy, long lasting and maintenance free. 
The general public see these flashy racing bikes on tv, but not the team required to keep the bikes functional on the road for the relatively short duration of the race event. 
On this forum we have frequent threads debating which chain lube gives best protection to a chain in winter, but the best chain protection comes with a fully enclosed chain guard, a system that was dumped 50 years ago, presumably after pressure from the suppliers of chain oil.
Why should anyone who buys a bike which could be a relatively simple mechanism be required to gain the skills to maintain it with such regularity? My bike requires more time spent to keep it serviceable than the total time spent on my washing machine, car and lawn mower combined.

PS I think the bike mentioned in the OP had just been pinched that day and the new owner was taking it home to tune it up ready to re-sell.


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## Globalti (11 Dec 2018)

What people are describing is a sense that by neglecting a piece of machinery you are doing a dishonour to it, its designer and builder and wasting good money. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for more on that.


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## Cycleops (11 Dec 2018)

raleighnut said:


> It's dry squealing chains that 'get' me.


Mostly rusted down here.


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## recumbentpanda (11 Dec 2018)

I once saw a small detached house in rural Japan entirely surrounded by a forest of discarded bicycles. I wondered if there was a bicicular Snow White sleeping within, waiting for her bike mechanic Prince to fight his way in and deliver an enlightening kiss. Looking at the pile, I decided not to be that guy . . .


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## KneesUp (11 Dec 2018)

snorri said:


> I don't necessarily blame the owners for the poor state of their bikes, they are victims of marketing in this country which tells us our bikes should be sporty and lightweight rather than sturdy, long lasting and maintenance free.
> The general public see these flashy racing bikes on tv, but not the team required to keep the bikes functional on the road for the relatively short duration of the race event.



It was definitely a 'race inspired' bike, and it did occur to me that 25mm tyres aren't ideal for the commute here in Sheffield. (I would imagine that the road maintenance department of the council here would describe the surface of the moon as 'adequately dressed') I thought perhaps that was the reason they were so deflated - to give a modicum of comfort, although they were so flat they must have gone beyond that. When I was on my way to work later I was behind a cyclist on a similar bike, and he was clearly having to pick a line, and I could still hear his bike rattling over stuff. I just ploughed on (26" wheels, 42mm tyres) with no more than the odd bit off mudguard clatter. The rider I saw with the flat tyres was clearly commuting and had not just stolen it (they were dressed in cycling 'garb' and didn't look equipped to break locks) and you're right - a 'race ispired' bike is not the right sort of bike for badly made roads, traffic and all weather.


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## screenman (11 Dec 2018)

I blame us cyclists for not passing the messages on.


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## Markymark (11 Dec 2018)

I get that he was riding all wrong. Maybe he doesn’t care. Maybe it wasn’t his bike. Maybe he hasn’t been shown the ‘correct’ way. Maybe he bought it 2nd habd

But why the assumption from many here that he will just throw it away after 2years when it gets dirty or needs a minor repair? That’s an illogical assumption.


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## Milkfloat (11 Dec 2018)

Markymark said:


> But why the assumption from many here that he will just throw it away after 2years when it gets dirty or needs a minor repair? That’s an illogical assumption.



Are you reading the same thread as me? I don't see anyone saying the guy in the OP will just throw it away.


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## Markymark (11 Dec 2018)

beepbeep said:


> some people are the ''use it and when it gets dirty / needs repairing - just throw it away and get another ''
> 
> More money than sense.





Milkfloat said:


> Are you reading the same thread as me? I don't see anyone saying the guy in the OP will just throw it away.


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## Drago (11 Dec 2018)

Sorry I'm late. I had a slow puncture on the front and was struggling a bit, when this self righteous geezer spotted the semi flat tyre and started to have a go at me!


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## LeetleGreyCells (11 Dec 2018)

Katherine said:


> I always think people who ride with their knees sticking out and *sometimes* *their* *feet* *too*, look so funny. Then I feel bad because there might be a good reason why.



[QUOTE 5466849, member: 9609"]I think my feet stick out a little, I have to ride from the arch of my foot to protect my knees (correct position hurts them) Once rode a little way with a proper cyclist and he told me I should change my pedalling position. 

(and NO, I don't have sticky out 'happy feet' when I walk - they point forwards)[/QUOTE]
My son’s right foot would always be positioned with his heel on the pedal and his toes pointing 45 degrees out to the side. No idea why. He certainly doesn’t walk like that. He tried so hard to correct his foot position himself, but when his mind wandered his foot would return to the original position. We cracked it about a month ago by going clipless. He’s noticed the difference in power too as he flies along much faster now too.


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## beepbeep (11 Dec 2018)

Markymark said:


> I get that he was riding all wrong. Maybe he doesn’t care. Maybe it wasn’t his bike. Maybe he hasn’t been shown the ‘correct’ way. Maybe he bought it 2nd habd
> 
> But why the assumption from many here that he will just throw it away after 2years when it gets dirty or needs a minor repair? That’s an illogical assumption.


 .....and maybe he couldn't be arsed to clean it...and when it falls apart he can go and buy a new one ?


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## Markymark (11 Dec 2018)

beepbeep said:


> .....and maybe he couldn't be arsed to clean it...and when it falls apart he can go and buy a new one ?


Bikes that don't have fully inflated tyres, saddles too low or a bit dirty don't tend to just fall apart. Cross chains will only really damage the chain a little but won't be noticeable if you don't care. I would suggest that if you ride every now and again as transport, an uncared for bike will last for years and years and any detriment to the rider may not be noticed....because they just don't care.


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## beepbeep (11 Dec 2018)

ok.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Dec 2018)

I worked with a guy years ago who was a complete slut with his bike. It was an old sit up and beg made up of skip parts, every one of them solid with rust and the wheels so far out of true they were banging the brake blocks. The tyres only saw a pump when he fitted them and the rims would ground going over a match stick. One of his cotterpins was so loose that when the crank got to the two o'clock position it would immediately drop down to four, yet he rode it like that every day, complete with handlebars that were off a child's bike and way too narrow.

As long as it moved he didn't care.


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## Randomnerd (11 Dec 2018)

Just keep your beak out. It's his bike and he can do with it what he will. 
Worry about something more pressing where you might do some good. Eg ask @Drago how you can help save the environment


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2018)

Drago said:


> Sorry I'm late. I had a slow puncture on the front and was struggling a bit, when this self righteous geezer spotted the semi flat tyre and started to have a go at me!



Hope you wobbled your arse at him as you went past.


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## KneesUp (11 Dec 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I worked with a guy years ago who was a complete slut with his bike. I was an old sit up and beg made up of skip parts, every one of them solid with rust and the wheels so far out of true they were banging the brake blocks. The tyres only saw a pump when he fitted them and the rims would ground going over a match stick. One of his cotterpins was so loose that when the crank got to the two o'clock position it would immediately drop down to four, yet he rode it like that every day, complete with handlebars that were off a child's bike and way too narrow.
> 
> As long as it moved he didn't care.


That sounds like a work of art.

What's the quote about a bike being a machine that is 80% efficient even when it is 80% broken?


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## Globalti (11 Dec 2018)

I once came across a bloke like that while riding the Cape Argus race. I was one of 31,999 immaculately turned out riders on our best bikes and I caught up with a bloke dressed in jeans and a T shirt on a knackered old jalopy, creaking, wobbling and clanking, who was riding along singing loudly and drawing maximum attention to the fact that he was doing the entire hilly 110 kms on a shitty old wreck and he didn't care a damn. Point made.


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## Sharky (11 Dec 2018)

A couple of baby wipes and it will sparkle like new:-







I've posted this before, so some might recognise it, but it's probably worth more than a house.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Dec 2018)

The trouble is a lot of people on here judge what they consider to be a well turned out machine using an OCD benchmark. Most cyclists, like most car owners, simply can't be arsed to spend half their spare time cleaning bits with a toothbrush and polishing it until they can see their face in the shiny bits.
I'm not condoning outright mechanical neglect, but let's not get too carried away about cosmetic appearances. I run some horribly scruffy bikes that many on here probably wouldn't be seen dead on, but they are all still mechanically adjusted and get a squirt of oil and a pump of air when required.
The riders knocking around on obviously neglected fairly expensive bikes are simply wasting money, and more fool them if they are dumb enough to do it. If they had any sense they would run a skip bike or something similar dirt cheap instead, as it would still get them from A to B at a fraction of the cost. Some people are just mugs with more money than sense, but whilst they have the absolute right to be mugs, we also have the absolute right to laugh at them for it.


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## Andy in Germany (12 Dec 2018)

recumbentpanda said:


> I once saw a small detached house in rural Japan entirely surrounded by a forest of discarded bicycles. I wondered if there was a bicicular Snow White sleeping within, waiting for her bike mechanic Prince to fight his way in and deliver an enlightening kiss. Looking at the pile, I decided not to be that guy . . .



I remember a cyclist in Japan telling me of a conversation with some students. They were commiserating with a colleague who reportedly had to throw her bike away.
"What's wrong with it?" he asked, all innocent. 
"It's got a flat tyre." came the indignant reply...


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## screenman (12 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The trouble is a lot of people on here judge what they consider to be a well turned out machine using an OCD benchmark. Most cyclists, like most car owners, simply can't be arsed to spend half their spare time cleaning bits with a toothbrush and polishing it until they can see their face in the shiny bits.
> I'm not condoning outright mechanical neglect, but let's not get too carried away about cosmetic appearances. I run some horribly scruffy bikes that many on here probably wouldn't be seen dead on, but they are all still mechanically adjusted and get a squirt of oil and a pump of air when required.
> The riders knocking around on obviously neglected fairly expensive bikes are simply wasting money, and more fool them if they are dumb enough to do it. If they had any sense they would run a skip bike or something similar dirt cheap instead, as it would still get them from A to B at a fraction of the cost. Some people are just mugs with more money than sense, but whilst they have the absolute right to be mugs, we also have the absolute right to laugh at them for it.



If people did not buy new there would be far fewer jobs, I take it your income does not depend on people spending. I feel you are the fool for not enjoying spending money, if you have it, so stop insulting people like me who do spend it.


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## raleighnut (12 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> If people did not buy new there would be far fewer jobs, I take it your income does not depend on people spending. I feel you are the fool for not enjoying spending money, if you have it, so stop insulting people like me who do spend it.


Ah but if we all bought less then we'd have less need to keep working so hard or for so long producing/distributing tat to go for landfill.


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## Johnno260 (12 Dec 2018)

My Merida was RRP £1000 but I got it for £650 which I consider a lot of money still.

Regardless I was always brought up to look after things, so if it was a £15 I would still maintain it, my brother is the polar opposite then complains he never has any money as he always has to replace things.

I don't like the throw away society the human race is becoming.


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## Globalti (12 Dec 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> I remember a cyclist in Japan telling me of a conversation with some students. They were commiserating with a colleague who reportedly had to throw her bike away.
> "What's wrong with it?" he asked, all innocent.
> "It's got a flat tyre." came the indignant reply...



I can match that story. One day I realised that my neighbour had two identical wheelbarrows. "Why two, Mike?" I asked. "The old one has a punctured tyre!" he replied. He gave it to me, I repaired it and still have it now, 22 years later!


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## Alan O (12 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> I can match that story. One day I realised that my neighbour had two identical wheelbarrows. "Why two, Mike?" I asked. "The old one has a punctured tyre!" he replied. He gave it to me, I repaired it and still have it now, 22 years later!


Just think, if he'd only fixed the puncture himself he could have had a spare wheelbarrow to carry round in his main wheelbarrow in case he ever got another puncture.


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## Markymark (12 Dec 2018)

Johnno260 said:


> My Merida was RRP £1000 but I got it for £650 which I consider a lot of money still.
> 
> Regardless I was always brought up to look after things, so if it was a £15 I would still maintain it, my brother is the polar opposite then complains he never has any money as he always has to replace things.
> 
> I don't like the throw away society the human race is becoming.


Do you think not maintaining a bike means it will fall apart? 

Why do you assume the person in the OP is likely to throw it away? I would suggest someone who cares little about the bike and uses it as transport might be more inclined to keep it longer than someone who loves bikes and upgrades which is what we hear a lot about on this site. In fact I know a number of dedicated cyclists who replace and upgrade their bikes every couple of years or so and should be more worthy of our 'throw away society' scorn.


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## GuyBoden (12 Dec 2018)

I like these type of people, because they sell the bike for next to nothing due to a rusty chain, badly adjusted brakes, gears and bearings. Things that can easily be fixed....


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## Johnno260 (12 Dec 2018)

Markymark said:


> Do you think not maintaining a bike means it will fall apart?
> 
> Why do you assume the person in the OP is likely to throw it away? I would suggest someone who cares little about the bike and uses it as transport might be more inclined to keep it longer than someone who loves bikes and upgrades which is what we hear a lot about on this site. In fact I know a number of dedicated cyclists who replace and upgrade their bikes every couple of years or so and should be more worthy of our 'throw away society' scorn.



I was being a little more generic in my reply, but usually if something is mistreated you're reducing it's life expectancy, it's why we service things after all.

I love bikes and upgrades, but doesn't mean I squander cash on it, things get replaced when they can't be repaired, an exception in my case was replacing some BB5 disc brakes with some Spyres as I was sick to death with the BB5 performance.


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## mgs315 (12 Dec 2018)

The ones I feel sorry for are the poor buggers doing about 5mph on the BHF London-Brighton every year. They’re putting in so much effort keeping the thing going on the flat with two flat tyres, rusty chain and poorly adjusted saddle that I wonder how on earth they’ll even make it to Brighton.


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## Globalti (12 Dec 2018)

You see people riding sportives on knackered old mountain bikes with flat, knobbly tyres and the position all wrong and you wish you could lend them your bike for them to see the difference.


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## steveindenmark (13 Dec 2018)

This my colleagues bike. 2 geared Sturmey Archer affair and yes that is plumbers pipe handlebar.

Tom has ridden from Denmark to Innsbruck on this bike in the summer. He wouldnt change it for anything.


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## steveindenmark (13 Dec 2018)

Sometimes we are all a bit elitist. I think Toms bike is a work of art.


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## Alan O (13 Dec 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> View attachment 442443
> This my colleagues bike. 2 geared Sturmey Archer affair and yes that is plumbers pipe handlebar.
> 
> Tom has ridden from Denmark to Innsbruck on this bike in the summer. He wouldnt change it for anything.


And it has no brakes?!


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## Milkfloat (13 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> And it has no brakes?!


But it does look well maintained.


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## recumbentpanda (13 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> You see people riding sportives on knackered old mountain bikes with flat, knobbly tyres and the position all wrong and you wish you could lend them your bike for them to see the difference.



Too often I see those people steaming past me without apparent effort as I struggle on my relatively new and well maintained machine. #itsallabouttheengine.


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## raleighnut (13 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> And it has no brakes?!


It looks like a coaster brake on the back but nothing on the front.


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## steveindenmark (15 Dec 2018)

raleighnut said:


> It looks like a coaster brake on the back but nothing on the front.


Thats correct. But he still got up and down the mountains.


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## Illaveago (15 Dec 2018)

Sharky said:


> Brings my OCD on as well, when I see saddles lower than handlebars, rusty chains, handlebars/saddles not level, lights hidden by panniers, riders wearing shorts in December, not enough seat post showing (frame too big).
> 
> But riders with knees sticking out - knew/know a rider who you could recognise from a mile away because of his sticking out knees, but he was an extremely gusty rider, riding TT's and massed starts and was a very good club rider.


I'd better not post pictures of my bikes then !


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## Levo-Lon (15 Dec 2018)

ianrauk said:


> To some, bikes have no value or meaning, they are just transport. They need not clean or look after it. Once ridden into the ground they will get another and do the same.




applies to a lot of car van owners too.
bold flat tyres filthy lights and windows ...grrr


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## Illaveago (15 Dec 2018)

I can remember when I was young that I used to cycle with my heel gripping the back of the pedal. I found that it was the easiest way of riding with ordinary shoes on wet rubber block pedals . It was only later on that I changed the position to the ball of my feet . Perhaps some people are just unaware of the correct position?


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> applies to a lot of car van owners too.
> bold flat tyres filthy lights and windows ...grrr



Why would you expect anyone to worry about a working vehicle, especially a company one the actual driver doesn't own and didn't buy with their own money? They're nothing more than work tools to most people. I drive motors at work and I never wash them either. That is what rain is for! I do put air and oil in them, but that's about it.


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## Levo-Lon (15 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Why would you expect anyone to worry about a working vehicle, especially a company one the actual driver doesn't own and didn't buy with their own money? They're nothing more than work tools to most people. I drive motors at work and I never wash them either. That is what rain is for! I do put air and oil in them, but that's about it.




Says it all really


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## Sharky (15 Dec 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I can remember when I was young that I used to cycle with my heel gripping the back of the pedal. I found that it was the easiest way of riding with ordinary shoes on wet rubber block pedals . It was only later on that I changed the position to the ball of my feet . Perhaps some people are just unaware of the correct position?


There have been different theories about cleat positions in the past. If you consider when you are digging with a spade, the position you adopt is with the spade in the middle of the foot as you described when you were young and not using the ball of the foot. This is the position that gives most power when digging. The theories often come out on the 1st of April, but might have some grounding of truth.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> If people did not buy new there would be far fewer jobs, I take it your income does not depend on people spending. I feel you are the fool for not enjoying spending money, if you have it, so stop insulting people like me who do spend it.


Skipdiver wasn't criticising the original purchase but buying something good, hopefully designed and built to run sweet, then grinding it away to something that rides less well than a hack bike. Hence the likes his post got I assume. Buying stuff for stuff's sake isn't a civic duty/virtue.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

GuyBoden said:


> I like these type of people, because they sell the bike for next to nothing due to a rusty chain, badly adjusted brakes, gears and bearings. Things that can easily be fixed....




Yes, not unusual to see an ad ad that says the tyres need pumping up. At worst, probablly a tube needs patching/replacing. Tis true I did once buy a bike where the tyre exploded onofirst pump due to perishing. But that was because it had clearly sat in a garage unused for 20 years. Rest of bike was in showroom condition.


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## Levo-Lon (15 Dec 2018)

Sharky said:


> There have been different theories about cleat positions in the past. If you consider when you are digging with a spade, the position you adopt is with the spade in the middle of the foot as you described when you were young and not using the ball of the foot. This is the position that gives most power when digging. The theories often come out on the 1st of April, but might have some grounding of truth.



Hmm, i dig with the ball of my foot but then ive done a lot of shovel work.
amateur shovel users tend to use the heal stop.
Nowt wrong with that ,but its better for the ankle using the ball.

Think i may have strayed off topic


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Skipdiver wasn't criticising the original purchase but buying something good, hopefully designed and built to run sweet, then grinding it away to something that rides less well than a hack bike. Hence the likes his post got I assume. Buying stuff for stuff's sake isn't a civic duty/virtue.



You do not have to read many of his posts to be insulted, if like myself you like to spend yor money on things of your own choosing. Maybe not a civic duty but did your job or the one you have now not depend on people spending money.


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## MontyVeda (15 Dec 2018)

similarly to the OP, I noticed a guy on the way home from work, clearly struggling with barely any air in his tyres and by the looks of each lunging push on his pedals, no grease in any bearings either. Come to think of it, he had the wind behind him too.


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

MontyVeda said:


> similarly to the OP, I noticed a guy on the way home from work, clearly struggling with barely any air in his tyres and by the looks of each lunging push on his pedals, no grease in any bearings either. Come to think of it, he had the wind behind him too.



I take it that you stopped and offered the use of your pump.


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## MontyVeda (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> I take it that you stopped and offered the use of your pump.


Nah... he looked a bit rough and I couldn't tell if the bike was brown or just completely rusty (I suspect the latter). If I'd had a skip I might have stopped and helped.


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

MontyVeda said:


> Nah... he looked a bit rough and I couldn't tell if the bike was brown or just completely rusty (I suspect the latter). If I'd had a skip I might have stopped and helped.



I can understand your feeling, but I blame us cyclists for not helping educate the non cyclist out there.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> You do not have to read many of his posts to be insulted, if like myself you like to spend yor money on things of your own choosing. Maybe not a civic duty but did your job or the one you have now not depend on people spending money.


you remind me of someone I used to work with - in PR would you believe. Despite a very good education she didn't question much.

She was outraged when I said I didn't believe a certain bit of market puffery on some product and I'd buy something cheaper/better value that was just as good/better.

I well remember her saying "you can't think that" - clearly thought I had offended some god and the sky would fall in.

She seemed to think that I had to sell my complete soul and intelligence because of our job.

In a similar vein, she appeared to think that folk should take certain sorts of holidays as part of their image development.

Bonkers.

You say your job depends on folk spending money - many do - but of course there are different things to spend money on - I do hope this doesn't mean you hand over dosh to folk just because they tell you to.

Anyway I'd re-read skipdiver's post and stop being so insulted.

Here's to happy riding and lubing


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## Smokin Joe (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> I can understand your feeling, but I blame us cyclists for not helping educate the non cyclist out there.


It isn't our job to do that, unless somebody asks. And in my experience unsolicited offers of help to strangers are met with resentment rather than gratitude. Going back a few years I advised someone I happened to be alongside in a sportive that his rear derailleur needed a tweak on the adjuster to stop the awful racket it was making and offered to show him how. I got a very snotty, "No thank you, I'd rather let a bike shop do it properly" in reply.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

I have a few times pointed out to folk that their saddle is to low.

Don't remember any bad reactions - maybe it's the way I made the suggestion - or my inoffensive yellow look.

I did for a while, after some oddball (in my opinion) posts on here think that I should maybe only proffer this suggestion to folks of the same gender in case I was accused of being outrageously patronising but then thought - nah - folks is folks. We's all cyclists.

Only bad reactions I remember are from cyclists I have had words with over close passes, particularly on the inside.

Riding towards Vauxhall in the summer I did catch up at the lights with one person of opposite gender and gently point out that she had passed very close without so much as a bell. She was very nice and said that she had - she rang it for me - we agreed that it was an over-designed pretty useless bell. She said she couldn't really say this publicly though as the boyfriend had bought it for her.

So a nice exchange.

Sad if you can't talk to folk - many exchanges are positive.

Part of the reason I ride a bike is to be in touch with my surrounding world/people.

Oh forgot - I used to ride with my saddle too low - until years ago a polite word from two priests who adopted me for a while on the Dunwich Dynamo.


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

I also have never come across a problem when passing on tips about bikes and cycling, but I suppose we are all different.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> I also have never come across a problem when passing on tips about bikes and cycling, but I suppose we are all different.


It depends on the circumstances. Advice to someone you know will probably be accepted, approaching complete strangers to tell them their tyres are too soft or their saddle is to high is likely to be ignored or worse.


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Skipdiver wasn't criticising the original purchase but buying something good, hopefully designed and built to run sweet, then grinding it away to something that rides less well than a hack bike.



I see you actually read what I posted with regards to people neglecting expensive machinery, whereas @screenman just automatically assumes if I post any remark about idiots wasting money, that I'm alluding to him!


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I see you actually read what I posted with regards to people neglecting expensive machinery, whereas @screenman just automatically assumes if I post any remark about idiots wasting money, that I'm alluding to him!



I read your posts and so many of them degrade people who have a few bob and like to spend it how they wish and why not, after all I bet you do the same.


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## palinurus (15 Dec 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I can remember when I was young that I used to cycle with my heel gripping the back of the pedal. I found that it was the easiest way of riding with ordinary shoes on wet rubber block pedals .



I've recently (re-)discovered this is the best way of pedalling my Elephant Bike if the pedals are a bit damp. It's the best technique under some circumstances.


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## MontyVeda (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> I can understand your feeling, but I blame us cyclists for not helping educate the non cyclist out there.


Reminds me of Harry Enfield's character... 





"You don't wanna do it like that!"


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> degrade people who have a few bob and like to spend it how they wish and why not, after all I bet you do the same.



True, I'm not exactly skint either and I do spend how I wish, but I have never had a reckless or frivolous approach to money. I'm not saying you necessarily have either, but a lot of people are total muppets and have this amazing ability to turn large sums of cash into much smaller sums of rapidly depreciating consumer goods which then get "upgraded" on a frequent basis. On one level, I'm happy like @GuyBoden that there are so many bargains out there as a result of this throwaway attitude, but on the other hand it really is inexcusably wasteful - and I'm no do-gooder tree-hugging save-the-planet type, I just abhor rampant big-business driven consumerism.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

Confession john - long long ago, not long after buying the bike that got me back into cycling (a steel Ridgeback with canti brakes) I almost bought another bike just because it had V brakes 

I fear a lot of folk are a bit like this - don't really understand their bikes, see them as akin to a car/new model which is mysteriously better. As in product B is better than A.

Years later, knowing more, I did actually stuff some V brakes on that original Ridgeback - and took it from the dizzy heights of 7 speed, after everything had pretty much worn out, to 8. I still ride it. Nice bike. Real triggers broom.


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## Johnno260 (15 Dec 2018)

If I see a fellow cyclist I will stop and ask if they need help, paperboys using bikes always stop me if they’re having troubles as they think I look like a proper cyclist lol

Also to play it forward, as I was stuck with a mechanical issue and a fellow cyclist in a camper van stopped and offered his help, then a lift home when we couldn’t fix it.


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## Blue Hills (15 Dec 2018)

Yes, by the side of the road I quite often get cyclists asking if I need any help.

Never taken offence yet, even if a woman.

Why would I?

Two or three months ago in the dark on a night ride from Wolverhampton to Lancashire a chap in a van coming the other way stopped and asked me if I was OK.

I'd just pulled over to peer at the GPS to try to busk a diversion off my marked route to avoid a bit of canal.

Nice.

Simple exchanges like that are the stuff of life - anyone who takes offence at a well meant offer of help deserves a going over with a chain whip


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I almost bought another bike just because it had V brakes
> 
> I fear a lot of folk are a bit like this - don't really understand their bikes, see them as akin to a car/new model which is mysteriously better. As in product B is better than A..



A lot of the Weekend Warrior Lycra merchants have this relentless cyclical change/upgrade mindset, but I'm not sure that many pure utility/too skint to afford a car type riders do. Most of them don't seem to care about any aspect of their bike so long as it is mechanically operative and rideable. I'm of the view that marketing is, at best, comprised of 90% BS with some vestige of truth lurking in the other 10%. As such, I'm highly cynical of any supposed "improvements" or reasons why I should be persuaded to replace a perfectly good 20/30/40 year old bike with a new one that all said and done, will do exactly the same job but at vastly more cost.


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## screenman (15 Dec 2018)

See insult again, this 62 year wears lycra every time I ride a bike which at this time is often only at weekends.


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## Alan O (16 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> True, I'm not exactly skint either and I do spend how I wish, but I have never had a reckless or frivolous approach to money. I'm not saying you necessarily have either, but a lot of people are total muppets and have this amazing ability to turn large sums of cash into much smaller sums of rapidly depreciating consumer goods which then get "upgraded" on a frequent basis. On one level, I'm happy like @GuyBoden that there are so many bargains out there as a result of this throwaway attitude, but on the other hand it really is inexcusably wasteful - and I'm no do-gooder tree-hugging save-the-planet type, I just abhor rampant big-business driven consumerism.


While I also support everybody's right to do whatever they want with their own money, my personal feelings towards consumerism are pretty much spot with what John says here. I know people who curse their struggle to make ends meet every month, and it's simply because they're sucked into consumerism and they spend money profligately - if they had enough to do that with, fine, but they don't.

I don't know, maybe I'm turning into my grandmother in my old age - she hated waste.


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## Alan O (16 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Yes, by the side of the road I quite often get cyclists asking if I need any help.
> 
> Never taken offence yet, even if a woman.
> 
> ...


Same kind of thing happens with me too - only a few weeks ago while I was fixing a puncture, several passing cyclists stopped to ask if I needed help. I always ask others too - even just having a better pump was a great help to one person earlier this year.


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## screenman (16 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> While I also support everybody's right to do whatever they want with their own money, my personal feelings towards consumerism are pretty much spot with what John says here. I know people who curse their struggle to make ends meet every month, and it's simply because they're sucked into consumerism and they spend money profligately - if they had enough to do that with, fine, but they don't.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I'm turning into my grandmother in my old age - she hated waste.



I am not turning into your grandmother but I do feel the same about consumerism for those who spend beyond their means, however there are plenty of people about who have got themselves in a position to spend, they are not in my opinion to be called names for doing so.


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## Alan O (16 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> I am not turning into your grandmother but I do feel the same about consumerism for those who spend beyond their means, however there are plenty of people about who have got themselves in a position to spend, they are not in my opinion to be called names for doing so.


I agree, but it doesn't stop me _feeling_ there's something wrong when I see waste (even for people who can afford the waste). Maybe it's also partly due to the time I've spent in poorer parts of the world.

I'll just add that it's not about buying very expensive stuff. I have cycling buddies who've spent thousands of pounds on their bikes - but they're not wasters. It's specifically consumerism-driven waste that gets me.


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## screenman (16 Dec 2018)

Alan O said:


> I agree, but it doesn't stop me _feeling_ there's something wrong when I see waste (even for people who can afford the waste). Maybe it's also partly due to the time I've spent in poorer parts of the world.
> 
> I'll just add that it's not about buying very expensive stuff. I have cycling buddies who've spent thousands of pounds on their bikes - but they're not wasters. It's specifically consumerism-driven waste that gets me.



It is one thing thinking about it and another writing it so often, if you were somebody who could afford to and did spend and popped in here as a new member, then the venom spouted about you may not feel friendly.


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## Levo-Lon (16 Dec 2018)

Buy a Ferrari in most european countries and people will stop and admire it.

buy one here and it will be most likely vandalised.
people seem to resent anyone with more.
if I'd saved instead of peeing up a wall and partying for most of my adult life I'd probably have a big house and a super car.
i like the pressure of dealing with life with a hangover and thinking if only


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## screenman (16 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> Buy a Ferrari in most european countries and people will stop and admire it.
> 
> buy one here and it will be most likely vandalised.
> people seem to resent anyone with more.
> ...



At least you have not wasted your money.


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## Drago (16 Dec 2018)

But a Ferrari here and you still can't drive it any faster than a 1.0 Corsa.

Article in t'paper the other day, classic car an exotica values arent climbing at the mo. If you buy one as an investment, at least in the short to medium term, you probably will be wasting money.


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## screenman (16 Dec 2018)

Drago said:


> But a Ferrari here and you still can't drive it any faster than a 1.0 Corsa.
> 
> Article in t'paper the other day, classic car an exotica values arent climbing at the mo. If you buy one as an investment, at least in the short to medium term, you probably will be wasting money.



Likewise, motorbikes, more than one push bike, computers and the list goes on even without mentioning boats and caravans., what is the point of money if it is not for spending.

John Todd, that was the name of the old guy opposite who died a few years back, lived in a hovel of a place, no heating, no car not even a bike, he had over £750,000 in the bank when he pased away, it that how we all should live?


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Dec 2018)

screenman said:


> the old guy opposite who died a few years back, lived in a hovel of a place, no heating, no car not even a bike, he had over £750,000 in the bank when he pased away, it that how we all should live?



Taking frugality to the point where it becomes parsimony is pretty pointless, but so too is the opposite end of the spectrum; having a reckless and day to day approach to money. For every cash hoarder with £750k stuffed in their mattress there will be a hundred spendthrift muppets who are forced to work until they drop because they have spent their lives blowing their cash as soon as they have any, so have no investments, no savings, no private pension etc to fall back on when they get older.
I know one such idiot at work. Most of the time he's so skint he hasn't got the money to buy a cup of tea and survives on baked beans and date-expiring bread off the reduction shelf. As soon as he gets paid, he'll go on a drink and drugs fuelled bender lasting a few days. By the end of the first week in any month, he's blown all his month's wages. He won't be enjoying any kind of retirement let alone a relaxed and prosperous one.


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## Levo-Lon (16 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Taking frugality to the point where it becomes parsimony is pretty pointless, but so too is the opposite end of the spectrum; having a reckless and day to day approach to money. For every cash hoarder with £750k stuffed in their mattress there will be a hundred spendthrift muppets who are forced to work until they drop because they have spent their lives blowing their cash as soon as they have any, so have no investments, no savings, no private pension etc to fall back on when they get older.
> I know one such idiot at work. Most of the time he's so skint he hasn't got the money to buy a cup of tea and survives on baked beans and date-expiring bread off the reduction shelf. As soon as he gets paid, he'll go on a drink and drugs fuelled bender lasting a few days. By the end of the first week in any month, he's blown all his month's wages. He won't be enjoying any kind of retirement let alone a relaxed and prosperous one.




I doubt he's expecting to be old.
nothing sadder than a rich man who died of nothing.


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## Blue Hills (16 Dec 2018)

"died of nothing"

?

sorry, don't understand.


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## DCBassman (16 Dec 2018)

Trnaslate: For no good reason...


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> I doubt he's expecting to be old.



He won't make old bones, not with the amount of drink and drugs he consumes. It's not like he just does it little and often either, he goes on massive binges and then has no recollection of the previous few days afterwards. I'd be surprised if he makes it much past 50. He's only 45 and already looks noticeably older than the 54 year old bloke he normally works with.


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## Levo-Lon (16 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> He won't make old bones, not with the amount of drink and drugs he consumes. It's not like he just does it little and often either, he goes on massive binges and then has no recollection of the previous few days afterwards. I'd be surprised if he makes it much past 50. He's only 45 and already looks noticeably older than the 54 year old bloke he normally works with.




So he likes what he does and makes the most of what time he thinks he has when he's flush.

Most of my old friends with this life style choice are mostly dead now.
He wont be a burden to any of us later.
His life his choice, as long as he's not hurting anyone else ,fair play to him.


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