# How much faster are the pros and what you need to emulate them.



## Cycleops (21 Jul 2018)

Interesting article about what amateurs need to do to catch the pro riders like Wiggins and Cavendish;

Tour de France: How to cycle as fast as a pro - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44897751


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## suzeworld (21 Jul 2018)

I read that article today. 
Is there actually any cycling advice in it? Maybe I missed a page! 
The numbers are incredible though, that’s for sure.


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## Heltor Chasca (21 Jul 2018)

Extraordinary FTPs. What they talk about holding for 7 hours, I can (and only on a good day) hold for 17 minutes! These athletes are the elite. And it isn’t just the technology, it is their physiological make up. THEY are the real machines.

Listened to a guy talking about today’s 24 hour TT. I heard him say something about the record set in 1969 and held for decades. Maybe it was broken recently (?), I didn’t quite follow the detail, but imagine they had the gear, reasearch, support and nutrition we have now. He would have killed it.


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## Sharky (21 Jul 2018)

The simplist way to go fast is to choose your parents wisely. If they are cyclists and fast, then you will be.

Many examples - Chris Boardman, Bradley Wiggins, Victoria Pendleton, Axel Merckx

I bet quite a few on here have mums & dads (& Uncles) who were decent cyclists.


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## gavroche (21 Jul 2018)

You can see how fast the pros are on the TdF when a cycle path is running parallel to the road where the Tour passes and some amateur cyclist is trying to keep up with the pros. He doesn't last long and the pros are just pedalling effortlessly it seems.


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## PhilDawson8270 (21 Jul 2018)

You need money and drugs to keep up with pros.


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## dodgy (21 Jul 2018)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> You need money and drugs to keep up with pros.



Oh shut up ffs.


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## Mugshot (21 Jul 2018)

gavroche said:


> You can see how fast the pros are on the TdF when a cycle path is running parallel to the road where the Tour passes and some amateur cyclist is trying to keep up with the pros. He doesn't last long and the pros are just pedalling effortlessly it seems.


True

View: https://youtu.be/VN54oOMVrXQ


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## Accy cyclist (21 Jul 2018)

Sharky said:


> The simplist way to go fast is to choose your parents wisely. If they are cyclists and fast, then you will be.
> 
> Many examples - Chris Boardman, Bradley Wiggins, Victoria Pendleton, Axel Merckx
> 
> I bet quite a few on here have mums & dads (& Uncles) who were decent cyclists.




A brother and sister i know were very keen amateur cyclists and still do the miles, though more touring and commuting rather than racing. Their dad rode in the TdF in the early 1960's a few times. "Yes but he only came about 13th at best" someone once said to me. Only 13th in the Tdf!! my,how poor is that i sarcastically thought. I don't just think it's genetic. They were brought up to ride a bike from about 2 years old and racing was drummed into them. Where i lived before,a young bloke constantly had his 2 children out doing laps of the block while he followed them barking orders(encouragement). The dad is into that downhill mountain biking stuff. Not road racing i know,but it seems he wants to install cycling ability and awareness into his children which is a very good thing!


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## Jimidh (21 Jul 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> A brother and sister i know were very keen amateur cyclists and still do the miles, though more touring and commuting rather than racing. Their dad rode in the TdF in the early 1960's a few times. "Yes but he only came about 13th at best" someone once said to me. Only 13th in the Tdf!! my,how poor is that i sarcastically thought. I don't just think it's genetic. They were brought up to ride a bike from about 2 years old and racing was drummed into them. Where i lived before,a young bloke constantly had his 2 children out doing laps of the block while he followed them barking orders(encouragement). The dad is into that downhill mountain biking stuff. Not road racing i know,but it seems he wants to install cycling ability and awareness into his children which is a very good thing!


 
It’s not just about genetics but it mostly is.

You need the physiology and you also need to train hard. Both are required.

Most of us even if we trained full time would never get to that level because we don’t have the correct physiological make up .


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## Milzy (21 Jul 2018)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> You need money and drugs to keep up with pros.


If you can't cope then you need to dope.


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## midlife (21 Jul 2018)

Slightly off topic but there's a you tube video where some guy dressed as a priest keeps up with some blokes in lycra...maybe fake but made me smile


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## Accy cyclist (21 Jul 2018)

Jimidh said:


> It’s not just about genetics but it mostly is.
> 
> You need the physiology and you also need to train hard. Both are required.
> 
> Most of us even if we trained full time would never get to that level because we don’t have the correct physiological make up .


That's why i class myself as a'4th division cyclist'. My mum and dad were fit and healthy enough,but they just didn't do any exercise. I kind of take some credit for my daughter looking after herself that way. From day one i took her out walking (some might say hiking) and enjoying the countryside and fresh air etc. Though i didn't encourage her to cycle as i didn't want her to face the dangers on the road. We bought her a mountain bike,but i was worried every time she went out on it. Especially as she wouldn't wear a helmet,saying it flattened her hair.


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## oldfatfool (21 Jul 2018)

gavroche said:


> You can see how fast the pros are on the TdF when a cycle path is running parallel to the road where the Tour passes and some amateur cyclist is trying to keep up with the pros. He doesn't last long and the pros are just pedalling effortlessly it seems.


But then the amateur isn't drafting a team mate and only cycling on the front for minutes/seconds at a time.


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## Sharky (21 Jul 2018)

midlife said:


> Slightly off topic but there's a you tube video where some guy dressed as a priest keeps up with some blokes in lycra...maybe fake but made me smile


There's a funny scene in one of the Mr Bean movies where he rides past a race bunch on a sit up and beg bike.


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## PhilDawson8270 (21 Jul 2018)

dodgy said:


> Oh shut up ffs.


Ok, maybe you’re right. 

To be a pro you need to be a sufferer of asthma. Its actually quite interesting how many of them have asthma thoug isn’t it?

If you think I'm picking on cycling, I'm not. Every elite sport involving money has performance enhancing drugs involved, either detectable or not. To think everybody other than the minority who are caught is a little naive


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## Ian H (21 Jul 2018)

The way to become a professional cyclist is to join a local club, train, train more, get a few results so you get noticed, then see what offers you get.


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## Ian H (21 Jul 2018)

User46386 said:


> True that is, I know someone who works in pro cycling and he says all the main ones do it. So thinking that its just hard work and laying off the biscuits is a load off utter bull.



You still won't get anywhere at all if you don't do the hard work and lay off the biscuits.


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## I am Spartacus (21 Jul 2018)

No one is denying the misuse of drugs is embedded in professional for decades and decades and (of late) amateur cycling, but stone me (sic), can't the drug accusers just lay off and go and watch football instead. I sit and watch cycling streams for hours when I can. I love the damn sport. I do the damn sport by partaking in (for me non drug assisted) racing. I actually dont care if I see dodgy performances. It all comes out in the wash at some point.
Shoot do you count beetroot juice?
The men and women professionals are just phenomenal in what they can do on a bike, end of.


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## bianchi1 (21 Jul 2018)

As well as the physiology factor it helps being a professional. The article compares Wiggins with some fellow pushing 300 odd watts for a 22 minutes 10. Chances are the amature has a full time job, is middle aged, family commitments and has no support staff, driver, masseuse or nutritionist and can't afford to spend the winter warm weather training abroad. While the amature is undoubtedly limited by his physiology, having unlimited time and money to train can't be underestimated.


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## Phaeton (21 Jul 2018)

There is also the network genetics to consider, children who grow up in a professional sports environment also meet people who can assist them, open doors for them, it's much harder doing that from the outide


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## Cycleops (21 Jul 2018)

I often think it would be a good idea to have dual level sports. One would be for sports men and women who could dope themselves up as much as they like and the other would be for clean athletes. Problem solved.


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## Mugshot (21 Jul 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I often think it would be a good idea to have dual level sports. One would be for sports men and women who could dope themselves up as much as they like and the other would be for clean athletes. Problem solved.


I thought they had that anyway, or are suggesting the dopers come clean, so to speak?


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## mjr (21 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> There is also the network genetics to consider, children who grow up in a professional sports environment also meet people who can assist them, open doors for them, it's much harder doing that from the outide


Even outside sports, that's a factor. My parents and grandparents cycled. My parents cycled with me sometimes. I probably associated cycling with summer holiday adventures and the ability to go places of my choosing long before I could drive, despite living somewhere with little public transport. Children of parents who didn't cycle probably don't form those mental links and think to get places, you normally get in cars.


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## Heigue'r (21 Jul 2018)

midlife said:


> Slightly off topic but there's a you tube video where some guy dressed as a priest keeps up with some blokes in lycra...maybe fake but made me smile




View: https://youtu.be/TSkwY9EuP5E


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## midlife (21 Jul 2018)

Heigue'r said:


> View: https://youtu.be/TSkwY9EuP5E




Thanks


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## Adam4868 (21 Jul 2018)

I think most of being a 'pro' in any sport is the mental part of it.How much your prepared to give up when starting out.How much mental strength you have to cope with grueling demands.
As a pro cyclist on the 3 week grand tours it's about the recovery aspect aswell,not many can sustain that level of fitness day in day out for 21 days


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## Ian H (21 Jul 2018)

You might get some idea of how fast the 'pros' are from this story. A few years ago on one of our club track sessions at Newport, a young woman asked if she could join us for training. She was just about to sit her A-levels.
We had a couple of useful 2nd-cat riders who'd won a few road-races between them.
Our final event was a scratch race, something like 18 laps as I recall. I had dropped off the back and was half a lap behind when the final sprint for the line went. Dani King (as she was then) shot past the men to win by over a bike-length. Some of them did look a little embarrassed (no-one knew what she would achieve then).


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jul 2018)

Met the quick step team out riding in Spain. We had just reached a col when the manager arrived in car shortly by team out training. Boy what a difference. Nice chatting a while before they flew away.


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## Beebo (21 Jul 2018)

midlife said:


> Thanks


I presume the “priest” is a semi pro cyclist in fancy dress with an electric bike and the other guys are on the brakes a lot and not going full speed. 
Very funny though.


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## Tin Pot (21 Jul 2018)

Jimidh said:


> It’s not just about genetics but it mostly is.



No one will ever know how true or false that statement is, because they use it as an excuse to give up before they even approach their potential.

Personally, I think it’s equivalent to believing in fate.


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## keithmac (21 Jul 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I often think it would be a good idea to have dual level sports. One would be for sports men and women who could dope themselves up as much as they like and the other would be for clean athletes. Problem solved.


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## keithmac (21 Jul 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I often think it would be a good idea to have dual level sports. One would be for sports men and women who could dope themselves up as much as they like and the other would be for clean athletes. Problem solved.



They do this in bodybuilding iirc clean and enhanced class.

Should be clean grade for cycling, god knows it's been dragged though the mire with Lance and now the TUE debacle, all sounds very suspect to the layman.

Whaen was the last totally clean TDF win?.


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## mjr (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> Whaen was the last totally clean TDF win?.


Last year*

* - TBC


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## keithmac (22 Jul 2018)

It's amazing how many top flight cyclist suffer from asthma, you wouldn't think they'd go hand in hand..


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## screenman (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> It's amazing how many top flight cyclist suffer from asthma, you wouldn't think they'd go hand in hand..



Seb Coe, had the same many years ago.


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## cyberknight (22 Jul 2018)

I remember reading the stats for the 1986 alp d`huez stage where the average speed for a mountain stage was i can manage for maybe an hour and a half on the flat .


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## hoopdriver (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> It's amazing how many top flight cyclist suffer from asthma, you wouldn't think they'd go hand in hand..


Actually they do. Much of it is exercised induced.


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## screenman (22 Jul 2018)

cyberknight said:


> I remember reading the stats for the 1986 alp d`huez stage where the average speed for a mountain stage was i can manage for maybe an hour and a half on the flat .




That could say as much about you as them, what is your average over 90 minutes?


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## Illaveago (22 Jul 2018)

I was wondering how much power the cyclists were generating during one event ? Using the Wiggins training figures, 312 watts x 7hrs x the number cyclists taking part ? Quite a few light bulbs !


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## Shortandcrisp (22 Jul 2018)

How can I be as good as a professional footballer, cricketer, marathon runner or cyclist? Answer - you can’t, they’re all much better than you are.


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## dave r (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> Whaen was the last totally clean TDF win?.



I doubt if anybody knows.


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## Heltor Chasca (22 Jul 2018)

Shortandcrisp said:


> How can I be as good as a professional footballer, cricketer, marathon runner or cyclist? Answer - you can’t, they’re all much better than you are.



Find a sport that isn’t popular?

This works in entomology too. Want to become a world expert and write a book and field guide on the subject? Find yourself a Diptera (fly) that hasn’t been studied and go for it. Don’t thank me. Thank the fly.

Paging @Julia9054


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## Julia9054 (22 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Find a sport that isn’t popular?
> 
> This works in entomology too. Want to become a world expert and write a book and field guide on the subject? Find yourself a Diptera (fly) that hasn’t been studied and go for it. Don’t thank me. Thank the fly.
> 
> Paging @Julia9054


I'm definitely more of a polymath than an expert on anything!


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## Beebo (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> It's amazing how many top flight cyclist suffer from asthma, you wouldn't think they'd go hand in hand..


I was always very sporty, swimming clubs, football, cricket, adult rugby every week with 2 training sessions. I never had any asthma issues. 
I stopped at 34 due to injury and decided to train for a marathon. Within 6 months at the age of 35 I had developed exercise induced asthma. I have to puff on my brown inhaler everyday for the rest of my life. 
If you push your lungs to the limit you can damage them.


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## Heltor Chasca (22 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> A couple of years ago I had a whim to enter a 24 hour TT. I could only find one, the national one (Mersey Roads, rather coincidentally happening this weekend). So I wrote to the organisers and asked if they could let me know of any other ones around the country, that rubbish people could enter. I got the reply (paraphrased) "There aren't any, but you're welcome to enter ours, provided you belong to a CTT club, no matter how rubbish you are".
> 
> So there you go, I could be in the national champs of a rather unpopular event. I thought better of it.
> 
> Similarly, I have a friend who has competed in various things all his life. He was approaching 60. He realised he was in with a chance of representing Great Britain in the world championships 60-65 bracket if he could find the right event. He chose his event after careful research and has ridden at the world champs in GB colours in the sprint duathlon discipline several times.



Brilliant. One of our Audax riders is doing the Mersey Roads. Word has it he’ll do very well.

One of my elderly clients is a recovering alcoholic and has 45% use of his lungs (smoking) and has every inhaler available. He has also recently had both cataracts done. He has taken up croquet and it turns out he is rather good. He has been in the paper a few times and he is traveling all over the place for matches.


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## Crackle (22 Jul 2018)

This is more or less an aside but the snide generalisation about doping in cycling piss me off as they're usually made by people who don't follow things that closely or haven't bothered investigating things like why so many athletes get asthma, which is actually interesting if you look into it.

Seb Coe was on Five Live this morning praising the new process that is now in place in athletics to catch and convict the dopers, how transparent it all is and how the IAAF is now talking openly about doping in Athletics and how everyone can see what they are up to. How many cases are going through this process at the moment, I hear you ask. Well I'll tell you. A 120. A hundred and farking 20! They're probably all Russians I hear you say. Well, you're not completely wrong, half of them are. But a hundred and farking 20, Olympic level athletes, that's a joke!

Are there any dirtier sports than athletics? Well you might want to cast your eye towards Rugby. But nothing is sacred, swimming, weightlifting is the obvious one, in fact virtually any sport. Cycling is not clean but it's gone a long way from where it was and I would even suggest, it's ahead of other sports. Of course Sir Coe would like to think he's leading the way but he's wrong, otherwise Kenyan athletes would not be top of the running pile.


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## Crackle (22 Jul 2018)

Oh and by the way, this is one of the cases that has just been resolved by this new super smooth IAAF process



2000 and farking two, fantastic process, makes the UCI looks like snails right.........oh wait.......


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## lane (22 Jul 2018)

200k in between 4 and 5 hours is a lot faster than I am. The best thing I could do to emulate them would be 3 stone lighter and 30 years younger and even then I would be nowhere close drugs or no drugs.


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## winjim (22 Jul 2018)

Crackle said:


> Oh and by the way, this is one of the cases that has just been resolved by this new super smooth IAAF process
> 
> 
> 
> 2000 and farking two, fantastic process, makes the UCI looks like snails right.........oh wait.......



Your point is a good one but that medal has 2008 written on it. So only ten years...


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## Crackle (22 Jul 2018)

winjim said:


> Your point is a good one but that medal has 2008 written on it. So only ten years...


I should've gone to Specsavers.


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## Cycleops (22 Jul 2018)

Mugshot said:


> I thought they had that anyway, or are suggesting the dopers come clean, so to speak?


They'd have to, which might be considered shameful, which I guess is the sticking point.


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## Ian H (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> They do this in bodybuilding iirc clean and enhanced class.
> 
> Should be clean grade for cycling, god knows it's been dragged though the mire with Lance and now the TUE debacle, all sounds very suspect to the layman.
> 
> Whaen was the last totally clean TDF win?.



You will be waiting a very long time to see such a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France


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## Milzy (22 Jul 2018)

Why can’t people just enjoy the racing? Either you’re a fan or you aren’t. It’s aggressive sport. Big business & totally cut throat. If you struggle in the team, you’ll be sacked and there’s always somebody else to take the place. How can people be so naive? It is what it is.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Jul 2018)

lane said:


> 200k in between 4 and 5 hours is a lot faster than I am. The best thing I could do to emulate them would be 3 stone lighter and 30 years younger and even then I would be nowhere close drugs or no drugs.



My fastest 200 is 7 hours 58 mins including 1.5 hours of stops when I was fitter. They are way faster than me.


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## Mugshot (22 Jul 2018)

Just watching a bit of the TDF and on the Ask Sagan section a question was, "How did you prepare for the TDF" part of his answer was "I sure didn't prepare by sitting on the sofa and watching TV." 
I've heard that Sagan is an ok rider, so maybe that little tip could help some others out.


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## keithmac (22 Jul 2018)

If extreme excercise brings on asthma then surely inhalers should be allowed across the board to all riders, level the playing field...


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## Milzy (22 Jul 2018)

keithmac said:


> If extreme excercise brings on asthma then surely inhalers should be allowed across the board to all riders, level the playing field...


How would Salbutamol help? If you’re breathing fine then it won’t make you breathe any better. If you abuse Salbutamol you can lose weight a little faster but we’re talking marginal gains here.


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## Heltor Chasca (22 Jul 2018)

Carlton Reid said on a podcast that this is the drug for asthma, but the doses being taken by some athletes was very suspect and way above the amount any doc would subscribe. His wife is a doctor and gave him this snippet of insider knowledge. 

It was a podcast round about the time Froome was in the chicken noodle soup.


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## Crackle (22 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Salbutamol's not the only asthma treatment on the market.
> This is an interesting story:
> https://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance


Interesting about Salazar. I thought there wasn't much evidence that beta 2 antagonists had much, if any, performance enhancing qualities when used from an inhaler. Certainly doesn't help me!


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## FishFright (22 Jul 2018)

Milzy said:


> How would Salbutamol help? If you’re breathing fine then it won’t make you breathe any better. If you abuse Salbutamol you can lose weight a little faster but we’re talking marginal gains here.



If that was true then no one would have ever a failed test


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## Milzy (22 Jul 2018)

FishFright said:


> If that was true then no one would have ever a failed test


I’ve had asthma for 30 years. Taking more than the stated dose of Salbutamol makes you feel jittery and rough. I’ve never needed to cut weight so fast, so never tried.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Jul 2018)

I know how to ride at their pace. I know which kit I need, and which parameters to look at. However, I’m too old. There’s no way I can put out the power they do, as long as they do.


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## lane (22 Jul 2018)

For anyone interested in the science of being a pro this is a good read. It does discuss the impact of genetics and also having an obesssion with performance. Other booksellers are available. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faster-Obsession-Science-Fastest-Cyclists/dp/1408843757


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