# Cycling to school



## spursdave (28 May 2012)

Got my youngest interested and we've not looked back!!!
It's a 1.8 mile journey there so 3.6 for him a day.
For me it's obviously 7.2 miles.
He gets to school 20 minutes early and has time to play.
Out of a school of a couple of hundred I am the ONLY parent who cycles to school!!!!!!
NO WONDER 90% OF THE PARENTS ARE FAT!!!!!!!!!

You can check out some of our rides on You tube by typing in Mid Essex Cycling


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## I like Skol (28 May 2012)

Excellent. I think all kids should be taught that cycling is a good form of (alternative?) transport and not just a leisure activity.

How old is your son? I try to cycle my kids to school when possible (not as often as I would like due to crap weather and crap shift patterns) My oldest is 9 and I would say he is almost ready to do the ride solo. The youngster is only 6 and can still be surprisingly erratic so I am reluctant to chance it sometimes as he just doesn't seem to concentrate on his surroundings with any consistancy yet. The school run is 2.5 miles each way so I can clock up a whopping 10 miles just commuting with the kids

Both my boys love it and we also use bikes for short errands whenever possible (nipping to shops, post office, cubs/beavers), anything to get some exercise and try to break the reliance on the car. I have panniers on my working bike so the kids see it as a practical load lugger that can handle school bags or 2 large bags of shopping, etc. I am sure I am setting a good example for their later life.

I know what you mean about the parents, this is a junior school so only the oldest kids travel there by bike alone and then only 2 or 3 with anything approaching regularity and in the 5 yrs we have been there I have only spotted one other parent arrive by bike. The rest either walk or turn up by car with some dreadful and inconsiderate parking not unusual including one muppet in a large audi or bmw 4x4 who pulls up on the yellow zigzags right outside the gates so he can push his little angels out the door without stopping the engine or getting out himself! If I had less self control I would take something sharp and 'accidentally' walk into his car with it.


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## ColinJ (28 May 2012)

Well done!

It's quite shocking how much things have changed in the 2 generations since I was a child (to my amazement, I am now old enough to be a grandfather, though that isn't going to happen because I skipped the rather essential _being-a-father_ stage!) ... 

My junior school ran cycling lessons for us and entered us in the Cycling Proficiency test. At the age of 9, I was happily whizzing about on the roads unsupervised. 

When I moved up to grammar school, there were massed ranks of bike sheds. Probably 20% of boys cycled to school and nearly all the others came in by bus or walked. Now, the bike sheds are gone, replaced by staff car parking and extra buildings. The school now has a one-way system on part of what used to be a playing field at the front of the school buildings. Parents can now drive in and drop their little darlings off about 50 metres from the school entrance. Of course, that soon gets clogged up so they randomly stop in the middle of a busy road to unload the kids. _School Run Madness! _


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## Norm (28 May 2012)

ColinJ said:


> It's quite shocking how much things have changed in the 2 generations since I was a child ...


In many places, yes, but it's not ubiquitous. My daughter's (girls only) school has no bike sheds, my son's (boys only) school has loads, but there are never enough for all those who want to use them.

Between the cyclists and those who perambulate, I doubt if 5% of my son's peers get a lift to school. Conversely, I doubt if 5% of my daughter's peers _don't_ get a lift to school.


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## ColinJ (28 May 2012)

Norm said:


> In many places, yes, but it's not ubiquitous. My daughter's (girls only) school has no bike sheds, my son's (boys only) school has loads, but there are never enough for all those who want to use them.
> 
> Between the cyclists and those who perambulate, I doubt if 5% of my son's peers get a lift to school. Conversely, I doubt if 5% of my daughter's peers _don't_ get a lift to school.


The Direct-grant system that paid my fees was abolished by Labour just after I left the school. The parents of most of the kids going to my school now must be pretty well off so I think that many of them will be multi-car families able to manage the School Run!


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## Norm (28 May 2012)

Possibly, but, then again, both my kids are at state schools now.

My son's (ex-grammar) school is on a good cycle path and I ride past it on my way to my office, so there's a chance we will ride together a couple of times a week.

My daughter's school is not a friendly bike ride from here, but there is a pretty good bus service which stops about a mile away. The roads around her school are pretty hectic in the mornings, though, because of all the school run moms.


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## ColinJ (29 May 2012)

Norm said:


> My daughter's school is not a friendly bike ride from here, but there is a pretty good bus service which stops about a mile away. The roads around her school are pretty hectic in the mornings, though, because of all the school run moms.


What really shocked me was that parents were stationary in the traffic jam that they helped to create and rather than letting their kids out 200 yards down the road and turning away down a side road, they were queueing for up to 10 minutes to drive forward those 200 yards!


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## MrJamie (29 May 2012)

sometimes my nephew is driven to primary school with his bike in the boot and I cycle home with him. I was impressed the school has plenty of under cover bike parking inside locked school gates and has some kind of green points if you walk or cycle.

they always had dismount signs at the gates but recently they've sent out a letter/email banning people from cycling anywhere near the school including the nearby mk cycle network which isnt the end of the world but isn't exactly encouraging of cycling imho and I couldn't imagine them making drivers walk the last 1-200m.


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## Ian Cooper (29 May 2012)

I'm a Briton living in the US, and it's a whole different universe over here. Just last week in Michigan, a bunch of kids were suspended for riding bicycles to school - and this was with the Mayor and a police escort riding with them. Last year in Tennessee, a mother got a visit from social services after she let her 10 year-old daughter ride to school unsupervised.

I take my daughter to school on my bike with a Trail-a-Bike attachment. I'm usually the only parent that cycles and my daughter is usually the only kid that cycles - this in an elementary school (ages 5 to 11) of over 500 kids. There is a rack that can hold 5 bikes - it usually is unused. My daughter is about ready to transition to riding her own bike on the road with me to school, which will, I'm sure, elicit some controversy.


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## Ian Cooper (29 May 2012)

MrJamie said:


> ...recently they've sent out a letter/email banning people from cycling anywhere near the school including the nearby mk cycle network...


 
How do they get the ability to do that? I thought Britons had a very basic right to public roadways.

Isn't the MK cycle network the infamous one that had more cyclist accidents after it was installed than happened before?


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## MrJamie (29 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> How do they get the ability to do that? I thought Britons had a very basic right to public roadways.
> 
> Isn't the MK cycle network the infamous one that had more cyclist accidents after it was installed than happened before?


I think it's just a request or school specific rule, asking parents to help impose this "no wheels zone" both in school grounds and on the public multi-use paths immediately around the school. There would be nothing stopping or even informing other unrelated cyclists not to ride around the area. It's barely an inconvenience, i just felt it affirmed the notion that when theres a potential car vs cyclists vs ped conflict, removing the nuscience cyclist is the best option. As I mentioned I dont think it would go down well if they asked drivers to park outside this area on grounds of safety.

I dont think youre thinking of MK, the network is 100% off the roads, aside from some crossing of residential roads, which are fine so long as you dont fly blindly out accross a road like some. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Keynes_redway_system

Im suprised by the attitude in the US you mention, is it because cycling to school seen as unsafe?


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## summerdays (29 May 2012)

There are usually a number of parents at my youngest child's school walking with their bikes in the school grounds, and the bike shed is fairly well used though it would be nice to see more bikes in there. However you can get some really bad driving by parents by the school when they will use the path to drive along because the other side of the road is completely blocked by parents parking to drop off their child. As we are in a city most children should theoretically live extremely close by to get into the school due to the shortage of places.

At my elder children's school I've even seen some children cycle (or in one case uni-cycle) to the off site part of the school.


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## 400bhp (29 May 2012)

MrJamie said:


> sometimes my nephew is driven to primary school with his bike in the boot and I cycle home with him. I was impressed the school has plenty of under cover bike parking inside locked school gates and has some kind of green points if you walk or cycle.
> 
> they always had dismount signs at the gates but recently they've sent out a letter/email banning people from cycling anywhere near the school including the nearby mk cycle network which isnt the end of the world but isn't exactly encouraging of cycling imho and I couldn't imagine them making drivers walk the last 1-200m.


 
The school is bang out of order. I would not accept that.


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## Ian Cooper (29 May 2012)

MrJamie said:


> I dont think youre thinking of MK, the network is 100% off the roads, aside from some crossing of residential roads, which are fine so long as you dont fly blindly out accross a road like some. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Keynes_redway_system


 
That's it - the Redway system. Here's the study:
1999 Franklin (review): Two Decades of the Redway Cycle Paths in Milton Keynes



> Im suprised by the attitude in the US you mention, is it because cycling to school seen as unsafe?


 
Yeah, I suppose so. There's a kind of 'moral panic' going on about cycling here. It's regarded as so unsafe that cyclists are regarded as irresponsible for doing it. This despite the fact that cycling has a lifetime risk that's half that for motoring.


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## MrJamie (29 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> That's it - the Redway system. Here's the study:
> 1999 Franklin (review): Two Decades of the Redway Cycle Paths in Milton Keynes
> 
> Yeah, I suppose so. There's a kind of 'moral panic' going on about cycling here. It's regarded as so unsafe that cyclists are regarded as irresponsible for doing it. This despite the fact that cycling has a lifetime risk that's half that for motoring.


Interesting report I enjoyed reading, I dont want to drag this thread off-topic but I dont agree with the safety statistics at all. Theres so many more bikes on the Redways than the few on the roads and so long as you slow/stop to give way where the cycle path crosses a local road its virtually impossible to meet a car. Visability being the highest cause, is simply because a lot of the hedges and bushes/rows of houses block vision until the last couple of metres and people take the risk and approach too fast. http://goo.gl/maps/lhDX A redway blindly crossing enterance to a sportsground and http://goo.gl/maps/3W3L Totally blind crossing now bushes have filled out. http://goo.gl/maps/26Zi same, but people have just left a 60mph road. People cross without looking all the time and sometimes get hit, thats where the bad statistics are from imho. I like it because my safety is more in my control than hoping drivers dont drive into me.


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## ianrauk (29 May 2012)

Have split the thread moving the relevant non school topic posts to a new thread in General Cycling forum *here*


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## spursdave (29 May 2012)

I'm surprised at the interest my original comments have created.
I was so incensed by seeing so many tubbies waddling around with their chubby kids (that is bloody unacceptable!!!)
that I felt compelled to get it off of my chest.
My comments are a bit harsh I know but if you don't tell it as it is (forget a thousand reasons or excuses)then another generation is condemned to a life of misery.


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## ianrauk (29 May 2012)

spursdave said:


> I'm surprised at the interest my original comments have created.
> I was so incensed by seeing so many tubbies waddling around with their chubby kids (that is bloody unacceptable!!!)
> that I felt compelled to get it off of my chest.
> My comments are a bit harsh I know but if you don't tell it as it is (forget a thousand reasons or excuses)then another generation is condemned to a life of misery.


 

I think you are very justified in your comments.
My jnr cycles to his pre-school on his balance bike twice a week. He's 2 &1/4 and it's not far. He loves it.
He is the only child in the pre-school to do this.
All the other kids are dropped off in their 4x4's.
Lazy bloody parents.


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## summerdays (29 May 2012)

I noticed a little kid on an Islabike balance bike this morning just exiting the school gate at the same time as me.


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## ColinJ (29 May 2012)

spursdave said:


> I'm surprised at the interest my original comments have created.
> I was so incensed by seeing so many tubbies waddling around with their chubby kids (that is bloody unacceptable!!!)
> that I felt compelled to get it off of my chest.
> My comments are a bit harsh I know but if you don't tell it as it is (forget a thousand reasons or excuses)then another generation is condemned to a life of misery.


Indeed!


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## Ian Cooper (29 May 2012)

The thing that annoys me is how quick some are to pretend that it's 'genetic' or 'glandular', as if they couldn't possibly benefit from a bit of diet and exercise anyway. I'm not exactly thin myself, but at least I'm the first to admit I'm a lazy sod - and at least I do drag myself out on the bike on occasion. In fact, much of the reason I never bothered to learn to drive is that I recognized at an early age that I was a lazy sod and decided to use my bone idle nature as a tool to stay fit. So I never bothered to learn to drive, never got a car and never put on the sort of poundage that a car might help me to gain. Instead, I kept a bike around and use it whenever I need to get somewhere on my own steam - which probably has a lot to do with why I still weigh under 200lbs.

The worst, these days, though, is fat kids. In my schooldays I knew one, maybe two overweight kids. They weren't fat - just big in a way that you might confuse it with being muscular. These days though, my daughter's school has many obese kids and one or two morbidly obese kids. It's disgusting! It's not as if parents can't prevent them from eating, and it's not as if there aren't free sports and fitness programmes on offer for kids.

Maybe that's horribly bigoted, but it's how I feel.


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## 400bhp (29 May 2012)

Often fat families end up the same shape-parents & children. Sad state of afffairs that.


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## Hebe (29 May 2012)

I did tow my daughter to nursery, but have stopped because of poor road surface at a junction with poor visibility, I needed eyes to pick a line through the holes and subsided pavement, and extra eyes to see behind the parked vehicles obstructing visibility at the T-junction. It got worse after the April rain, I wrote to the council, and they said that the defects aren't bad enough for intervention. Which I would get if it was just a case of one or two avoidable potholes, but the whole width of a lane is trashed. Anyway, she starts school in September and the route there is far more bike -friendly, even with a chunk of it off-road.


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## Ian Cooper (29 May 2012)

Hebe said:


> I wrote to the council, and they said that the defects aren't bad enough for intervention.


 
I'd write back asking them who makes that decision and what legal action they would expect your next of kin to take if you happen to be killed while trying to avoid the potholes.


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## Alun (29 May 2012)

MrJamie said:


> but recently they've sent out a letter/email banning people from cycling anywhere near the school including the nearby mk cycle network


Really? Could you post a copy of this, I'd be interested to see the exact wording.


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## MrJamie (30 May 2012)

Alun said:


> Really? Could you post a copy of this, I'd be interested to see the exact wording.


Its usually quite busy on the paths they refer to and children are often poorly supervised by parents so are nipping around your ankles on small bikes and scooters so thinking about it more I do see their point and there is sense in it, even though its a bit like banning cars because a few people misbehave and cant be responsible.



> Dear Parents/Carers
> 
> Please find attached a letter regarding the No Wheel Zone around the school. This enables all pupils, parents and carers to travel to the school in a safe environment and ensure the safety of cyclists whilst in the car park area.


 


> Dear Parents/Carers
> Can we remind you that children should not be riding their bikes in the school grounds or the ‘no wheels zone’ around the school? This enables all pupils, parents and carers to travel to the school in a safe environment and ensure the safety of cyclists whilst in the car park area.
> Some children have been riding their bikes in a very thoughtless and dangerous manner. Bikes and scooters should not be ridden in the school grounds or the ‘no wheels zone’ and particular care should be taken near younger children.
> When approaching the school area, please dismount from your bicycle, scooter and other wheeled forms of transport and walk to the school entrance.
> ...


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## Alun (30 May 2012)

Looks fair enough to me !
Dependent on the extent of the "No Wheel(s) Zone" it doesn't appear to mean " banning people from cycling anywhere near the school" though.


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## Hebe (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> I'd write back asking them who makes that decision and what legal action they would expect your next of kin to take if you happen to be killed while trying to avoid the potholes.


 I think it's policy. They did acknowledge that the surface was poor and that they might be able to do a temporary fix, and that they would add it to their list of roads to monitor (which surely should be all of them, anyway?). It's simply not a pleasant ride, I have no idea why a remote corner of an industrial estate was considered a suitable place to site a nursery without adding dropped kerbs, pavement where missing and parking restrictions.


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## adds21 (30 May 2012)

I kid you not, one of the parents at my sons' school drives two kids *300* feet to school (just measured it on Memory Map, and that's being generous). Her argument is that "it's on her way" to work...


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## Sara_H (30 May 2012)

I've written about this on these forums a couple of times, the head teacher at my sons primary school writes to parents once a term stating that only children who have completed bikeability and wear a helmet are allowed to cycle to school.

Where on earth she got the idea from that she has any say in what my son does outside school hours I have no idea, but it makes me feel quite cross TBH!


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## Hicky (30 May 2012)

Well, my oldest is 9, he walks himself to school crossing a major road (there is an island and the majority of time he's waved across)....the school is about 150M away if that!.....He's been doing this for almost a year.
The school also sent home a letter after xmas seeing if you wanted to allow your child to walk home....forward thinking I guess.
I'd appauld the school as when we go in for "parents evenings" now done on a sat so the working parents dont miss out or have to take time off.....(son number 2 (now 3y/o will be going there also))
High school is 1 1/2 mile down the canal with bike sheds.
He also takes himself to boxing which is about a mile, maybe a mile 1/2 away on his razor scooter(no room in the gym for his bike) crossing two major roads but using crossing points, I pick him up with son number two on his bike...I jog.

As parents we're still nervous about him being out and dont let him wander around/playout unlike some of his peers, however at his age I was riding off up to Saddleworth on my BMX from Oldham so maybe I should "chillout oldman!"


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## Ian Cooper (30 May 2012)

adds21 said:


> I kid you not, one of the parents at my sons' school drives two kids *300* feet to school (just measured it on Memory Map, and that's being generous). Her argument is that "it's on her way" to work...


 
I used to live down the road from a housewife who would drive her kid about that same distance to school, then she would turn around and drive home.


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## ianrauk (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> I used to live down the road from a housewife who would drive her kid about that same distance to school, then she would turn around and drive home.


 

It's not uncommon.


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## Ian Cooper (30 May 2012)

Hicky said:


> As parents we're still nervous about him being out and dont let him wander around/playout unlike some of his peers, however at his age I was riding off up to Saddleworth on my BMX from Oldham so maybe I should "chillout oldman!"


 
A tip I learned in the Cycling Instructor course - when using the sidewalk, you cut the risk of being hit at intersections in half if you walk on the same side as cars travelling in your direction. Motorists tend to look towards oncoming traffic when pulling out onto a road, and if you're walking against traffic, the motorists are less likely to see you. Might be a good tip to pass on to your son.


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## Hicky (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> A tip I learned in the Cycling Instructor course - when using the sidewalk, you cut the risk of being hit at intersections in half if you walk on the same side as cars travelling in your direction. Motorists tend to look towards oncoming traffic when pulling out onto a road, and if you're walking against traffic, the motorists are less likely to see you. Might be a good tip to pass on to your son.


 
I'll put him onto it thanks, he's probably done more road riding in France than here and he knows not to use the road as he's not sensible(or had any training) so knows my views on it.....and the local scrotes would probably nick it off him if left to ride where ever he wanted.

I'm trying to get the school to run a bikeability course or something as one of the other local primarys have done so recently....lord knows some of the staff could do with a bit of exersize.


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## LosingFocus (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> A tip I learned in the Cycling Instructor course - when using the sidewalk, you cut the risk of being hit at intersections in half if you walk on the same side as cars travelling in your direction. Motorists tend to look towards oncoming traffic when pulling out onto a road, and if you're walking against traffic, the motorists are less likely to see you. Might be a good tip to pass on to your son.


 
Funnily enough, I was taught at school to always walk _against traffic_ on the pavement, so you can see what is coming at you.


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## Hicky (30 May 2012)

I always jog into traffic(on the pavement!) and walk into oncomming traffic if on roads with no path(when hiking or the like)


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## david1701 (30 May 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Funnily enough, I was taught at school to always walk _against traffic_ on the pavement, so you can see what is coming at you.


 
defo the best way to pass people on country lanes as it gives driver (or rider) and pedestrian a lot more options


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## I like Skol (30 May 2012)

Hicky said:


> Well, my oldest is 9, he walks himself to school crossing a major road (there is an island and the majority of time he's waved across)....the school is about 150M away if that!.....He's been doing this for almost a year.
> The school also sent home a letter after xmas seeing if you wanted to allow your child to walk home....forward thinking I guess.
> I'd appauld the school as when we go in for "parents evenings" now done on a sat so the working parents dont miss out or have to take time off.....(son number 2 (now 3y/o will be going there also))
> High school is 1 1/2 mile down the canal with bike sheds.
> ...


 
This is my view on the issue, but it is a thorny one and my wife takes the opposing view so at the moment my 9yr old son is not allowed to ride out on his own. I know he is ready and capable and I know i was riding free at his age, and with a damn site less coaching!


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## Ian Cooper (30 May 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> Funnily enough, I was taught at school to always walk _against traffic_ on the pavement, so you can see what is coming at you.



Yeah. They always used to teach that. But apparently it's wrong.

You just have to consider where the driver is looking. They just don't look at where Cars aren't an immediate danger to them. They aren't interested in that direction because nothing coming from there can hurt them. When you're walking against traffic, motorists entering the roadway will only glance your way for a split second. Conversely, they will scan and scan over again the direction where oncoming traffic is likely to be.

Statistically, you're twice as likely to be hit walking against traffic as you are walking with traffic.

Here in Maryland, where there is no sidewalk, pedestrians are required by law (though I'm sure it's not policed) to walk in the direction of traffic, for this reason.


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## Friz (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> Yeah. They always used to teach that. But apparently it's wrong.
> 
> You just have to consider where the driver is looking. They just don't look at where Cars aren't an immediate danger to them. They aren't interested in that direction because nothing coming from there can hurt them. When you're walking against traffic, motorists entering the roadway will only glance your way for a split second. Conversely, they will scan and scan over again the direction where oncoming traffic is likely to be.
> 
> Statistically, you're twice as likely to be hit walking against traffic as you are walking with traffic.


 
Is that simply because 80 percent (completely made up) of pedestrains are walking "facing" traffic therefore creating a "twice as likely" statistic out of sheer numbers? I do most of my daily commute on small back roads that have quite a few pedestrians. The ones that are walking toward me I can smile and wave at. They see me, I see them.

But then there are the ones who are walking with their back to the traffic (and me). A good portion of them have headphones or ear buds in and have no clue of what's going on around them. Even with me moving to the middle of the road (putting myself in potential danger) I still manage to scare the shite out of alot of them.

And just to show I try to be flexible, I have tried walking in the other direction on the roads. I don't think I've ever come that close to gettin run over so many times in so little time. It was genuinely unnerving.


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## Hicky (30 May 2012)

I like Skol said:


> This is my view on the issue, but it is a thorny one and my wife takes the opposing view so at the moment my 9yr old son is not allowed to ride out on his own. I know he is ready and capable and I know i was riding free at his age, and with a damn site less coaching!


 
I hate the "I'll be on my best behaviour" look as he goes tearing along completely ignoring the fact mum is watching him.
I have two large scar's pointing to the fact I'm not the most carefull and dont want him to find out the painfull way.....plus I dont want him to be mugged for his Cube....another 10months or so and him and the friends from school who I trust(loosely used term they're all barmy) will all be out and are close knit.

I'm might ask my folks what they experianced at this time with me.....oh, I'm the youngest of 5 didnt matter too much


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## Ian Cooper (30 May 2012)

Friz said:


> Is that simply because 80 percent (completely made up) of pedestrains are walking "facing" traffic therefore creating a "twice as likely" statistic out of sheer numbers?



Definitely not. This has been studied many times.



> I do most of my daily commute on small back roads that have quite a few pedestrians. The ones that are walking toward me I can smile and wave at. They see me, I see them.



I don't think you see my point. It's not on the straightaways that the problem is. It's at intersections when cars are coming from different directions and entering the roadway.

While it's true that pedestrians fear cars coming along the same road that they're on the most, the real danger is when they cross the road at an intersection. Here is where most pedestrians are struck.


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## LosingFocus (30 May 2012)

Hicky said:


> another 10months *8 weeks* or so and him and the friends from school who I trust(loosely used term they're all barmy) will all be out and are close knit.


 
FTFY... if he gets his way I would imagine!


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## I like Skol (30 May 2012)

LosingFocus said:


> FTFY... if he gets his way I would imagine!


 
LoL.... here come the summer holidays, cue non-stop rain and frustrated, bored kids


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## Friz (30 May 2012)

Ian Cooper said:


> While it's true that pedestrians fear cars coming along the same road that they're on the most, the real danger is when they cross the road at an intersection. Here is where most pedestrians are struck.


 
Yeah that makes sense.


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