# SPD Pedals, Reflectors and the Law



## Octet (8 Aug 2013)

Since upgrading to SPD pedals about a month ago, I haven't yet needed to go out on them at night. If I do however need to, since they don't have amber reflectors then technically I would be breaking the law.

Now, I know that the chances of being pulled over for not having them is very, very slim but it's still going to be worth it for the greater visibility, and in case of a collision for insurance purposes.

As you probably know, most SPDs and SPD-SLs don't have amber reflectors mounted, and mounting them is very difficult. I own a pair of Shimano SPD Mountain Bike (E-PDM540) pedals but Shimano don't sell a kit to add reflectors to these models.
Does anyone have any alternative methods to mounting reflectors, has anyone ever had any issues with the law or insurance companies for not having them, what do others do and would I get away with wearing reflective ankle bracelets instead?

Thanks in advance for any responses.


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## ianrauk (8 Aug 2013)

The chances are not slim, they are zero.
I can bet my life on the fact that no one has ever been pulled up by the Police for not having pedal reflectors. Forget them and wear your ankle bands if you are that much worried about it.

It was not even on mine or the other party's insurers radar when I had a coming together with a (Police) vehicle.


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## benb (8 Aug 2013)

As long as you have something reflective on your shoe (as all cycle shoes do have) then you're complying with the spirit of the law, if not the letter.
Likelihood of being pulled for it? You're more likely to win the lottery.


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## musa (8 Aug 2013)

Dont forget the bell and the reflectors too

:yawn: 

Most bikes dont leave shops in that case. The bells, reflectors pedals are thrown in the bin


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## andrew_s (8 Aug 2013)

There's no doubt that something decently reflective for pedals/feet/ankles does make you quite a lot more visible. Reflectives on the body are often above the beam of dipped headlights, and don't move and catch the eye the same.

Shoe reflectives are mostly not very effective once the shoe has been worn for a while.
The clip on reflector platforms that you can get for one side of double-sided MTB pedals are not all that durable, especially if you remove them much.
The Shimano PD-T780 platform/SPD pedal is quite good.
Ankle bands are also good, but easily forgotten. I like the Respro ones.

One bike has the PD-T780s on, with the others I normally use ankle bands.


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## gaz (8 Aug 2013)

It will be fairly easy to argue that a decent set of lights out weighs the need for reflector pedals. Any driver that can't see a light on the back or front of a bicycle is probably not going to notice pedal reflectors.


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## zacklaws (8 Aug 2013)

Years ago I used to adorn my old Raleigh with Solas reflective tape patches and it would glow like a beacon in the dark when any light was shone on it, but cannot bring myself to do the same to my best bikes today. But I have often thought about sticking some of the amber or orange Solas tape on my pedals if they make it that is, and I have a feeling they dont, if not some other make. One day I may get round to it. It is pricey, but you do not need much and very hard wearing, maybe only six inches would be more than enough for the pedals and a bag, but Solas is the best stuff I have seen. I used to get yard long strips from a ships chandlers, but it does crop up on Ebay and even Amazon


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## Davidc (8 Aug 2013)

Not just SPD pedals, the law's just impossible to comply with with some pedals.

Because the moving reflectors are a good idea I use slap-wraps round the ankles at night. Double up as trouser clips too.

The bikes have 3M spoke reflectors, and various pieces of 3M reflective sticky tape on them, as well as good lighting so the likelihood of being picked up for not complying with the letter of the law is zero.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

gaz said:


> It will be fairly easy to argue that a decent set of lights out weighs the need for reflector pedals. Any driver that can't see a light on the back or front of a bicycle is probably not going to notice pedal reflectors.


Normally I'd agree* but last winter, when driving, shocking I know, I found I could see pedal reflectors screaming 'CYCLIST' at me when lights were either less than decent or, more often, just badly aligned.

I'm a big fan of the new Shimano Click'R pedals. Double sided SPD with built in reflectors out of the box.

*on the basis that, in truth, if they ain't lookin' they ain't gonna see you no matter what


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

Davidc said:


> Not just SPD pedals, the law's just impossible to comply with with some pedals.
> 
> Because the moving reflectors are a good idea I use slap-wraps round the ankles at night. Double up as trouser clips too.
> 
> The bikes have 3M spoke reflectors, and various pieces of 3M reflective sticky tape on them, as well as good lighting so the likelihood of being picked up for not complying with the letter of the law is zero.


The likelihood of getting picked up is zero regardless.


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## Davidc (8 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> The likelihood of getting picked up is zero regardless.


Probably.

It's the sort of thing that might come up when the police do their token one night stopping unlit bikes session, otherwise you have to be right.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

Round ours it is a daily campaign against the "scourge" of pavement cyclists. Ladies on shopping bikes and yoofs on BMXs/ Using a patrol car that was... ahem... illegally parked when I stuck my beak in. Meanwhile 6 people died on local roads last month in RTC's. You couldn't make Sussex Police up if you tried.


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## Davidc (8 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Round ours it is a daily campaign against the "scourge" of pavement cyclists. Ladies on shopping bikes and yoofs on BMXs/ Using a patrol car that was... ahem... illegally parked when I stuck my beak in. Meanwhile 6 people died on local roads last month in RTC's. You couldn't make Sussex Police up if you tried.


I used to live in Hove in the 1980s - clearly nothing's changed there.

Here it's done differently but the application of effort to cycling isn't very intelligent. The only sensible bit I've seen recently was RLJer stopping (of cars and bikes).


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Aug 2013)

gaz said:


> It will be fairly easy to argue that a decent set of lights out weighs the need for reflector pedals. Any driver that can't see a light on the back or front of a bicycle is probably not going to notice pedal reflectors.


hmmmm. bad alignment. failing batteries, jacket or rack use obscuring lights, bad roads and cruddy mounts seeing lights fly off mid ride and the fact, like hi viz vest tops, they are used by others than just cyclists. as are reflective tabbed footwear and ankle bands.

A doubled up orange low level uppy downy motion is absolutely uniquely cyclist and will put a driver (me) on a far better level of *bike coming up* alert than other jogger, builder on way home, dog walker, spangly trainer wearer etc.
They're a bit of a hobby horse of mine.

------------------

my roadie SPDs have the shimano clip in platform & they have been fine & robust for removal & refitting but generally they stay on the pedal & I don't notice theyre there, no issues clipping in etc at all.


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## gaz (9 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Normally I'd agree* but last winter, when driving, shocking I know, I found I could see pedal reflectors screaming 'CYCLIST' at me when lights were either less than decent or, more often, just badly aligned.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the new Shimano Click'R pedals. Double sided SPD with built in reflectors out of the box.
> 
> *on the basis that, in truth, if they ain't lookin' they ain't gonna see you no matter what


Being singled out as a cyclist is not always the best thing, espcially if you are moving at speeds that are closer to that of mopeds and motorbikes rather than the typical granny with her shopping going home up a hill.


shouldbeinbed said:


> hmmmm. bad alignment. failing batteries, jacket or rack use obscuring lights, bad roads and cruddy mounts seeing lights fly off mid ride and the fact, like hi viz vest tops, they are used by others than just cyclists. as are reflective tabbed footwear and ankle bands.
> 
> A doubled up orange low level uppy downy motion is absolutely uniquely cyclist and will put a driver (me) on a far better level of *bike coming up* alert than other jogger, builder on way home, dog walker, spangly trainer wearer etc.
> They're a bit of a hobby horse of mine.
> ...


The use of the word decent in my post was there as a. the lights of high quality and brightness b. the light and mount location has been placed in a location that means it won't get blocked and the mount is of high quality that it won't sleep down.

As for being seen as a cyclist, this isn't always the best thing. Sometimes it's better to be thought of as a powered two wheeler rather than a bicycle.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

gaz said:


> Being singled out as a cyclist is not always the best thing, espcially if you are moving at speeds that are closer to that of mopeds and motorbikes rather than the typical granny with her shopping going home up a hill.
> 
> As for being seen as a cyclist, this isn't always the best thing. Sometimes it's better to be thought of as a powered two wheeler rather than a bicycle.


I think that's an urban (you) vs rural (me) thing. The funny thing being I can top 30mph and still get overtaken on the blind bend with the double whites. Where's my camera!

PS I'd say identified not singled out


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## Dan B (9 Aug 2013)

Ordinarily I would agree wholeheartedly with the "nobody is ever going to care" viewpoint in previous posts. But I just read this article: http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/...er___I_just_didn_t_see_the_bloke_/?ref=twtrec


> Forensic collision investigator PC James Henderson told jurors visibility was “good” and tests showed the bike would have been first seen from 174 metres, giving 6.5 seconds reaction time. The pedals were not fitted with amber reflective strips as legally required after sunset – it was 9.05pm.
> 
> Police vehicle examiner Phil Balderstone said the bike’s light had probably been on at the time of the crash but was faulty because it had been damaged.


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## Octet (9 Aug 2013)

Hmm, a lot of interesting theories have been passed around this post.

If I can find some of that tape which zacklaws has suggested then I think I'll buy some (not show how I would fit it though) otherwise I'll stick with the ankle bands.

Thanks for the replies, more than I expected for this type of thread.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

Dan B said:


> Ordinarily I would agree wholeheartedly with the "nobody is ever going to care" viewpoint in previous posts. But I just read this article: http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/...er___I_just_didn_t_see_the_bloke_/?ref=twtrec


Not guilty of the death by dangerous driving charge. Clearly killing folk is merely careless.


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## shouldbeinbed (9 Aug 2013)

@gaz ok, I took decent as meaning not a £3 from Tesco set.

I'm not keen on being seen as a powered 2 wheeler, different closing speeds and all that. I'm totally happy for a driver closing in on me to be as fully informed as possible as to what I am and how quickly I'm likely to be travelling in relation to them.


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## gaz (9 Aug 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> @gaz ok, I took decent as meaning not a £3 from Tesco set.
> 
> I'm not keen on being seen as a powered 2 wheeler, different closing speeds and all that. I'm totally happy for a driver closing in on me to be as fully informed as possible as to what I am and how quickly I'm likely to be travelling in relation to them.


With peoples dominant thoughts of cyclists as being a slow road user, and with our speed varying hugely depending on fitness, terrain and weather. It may be best that they don't single us out straight away as being a road user that is going 10mph, as many people believe that is alway we can achieve. Where as if they can't tell what kind of road user we are, but we are clearly visible, then they are more likely to pay attention and approach us slower.

This is at least my experience, and at night I will regularly run zero flashing lights on certain roads to use this effect to my advantage.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

gaz said:


> With peoples dominant thoughts of cyclists as being a slow road user, and with our speed varying hugely depending on fitness, terrain and weather. It may be best that they don't single us out straight away as being a road user that is going 10mph, as many people believe that is alway we can achieve. Where as if they can't tell what kind of road user we are, but we are clearly visible, then they are more likely to pay attention and approach us slower.
> 
> This is at least my experience, and at night I will regularly run zero flashing lights on certain roads to use this effect to my advantage.


A well reasoned argument. Feels like it is more applicable to an urban setting where, generally, the speed differential between vehicle and cyclist is less than, say an NSL rural SC, where the fittest strongest rider will be travelling 30mph less than the vehicles.

I particularly like, and implement, the no flashing lights at night point though. The off phases just give people the chance to forget our presence.


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## Dan B (11 Aug 2013)

I put flashing lights on the rear and constant on the front because I would like drivers behind me to consider that I might be going slowly and drivers in front of me (e.g. crossing my path or waiting at side roads) to consider that I might _not_ be going slowly


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## fossyant (11 Aug 2013)

Don't worry about it. Your shoes probably have reflectors at the heal anyway.


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## Ady_E (25 Sep 2013)

I've ridden bikes without pedal reflectors day and night most of my life (I'm 43) without issue from the authorities or insurers in times of crisis. However, recently, a letter was issued to all cyclists using the Torpoint Ferry (between Devonport, Plymouth and Torpoint, Cornwall) reminding them of their responsibilities as road users, which was all very one sided if you ask me but that open to debate in another thread maybe.

In this letter, various cycle related issues were discussed and one of them was a reminder of the legal requirement to have amber penal reflectors fitted to a machine manufactured after 1985. I find myself here during my research into the the issue of fitting such devices to SPD pedals.

The first thing that strikes me as odd is that, if they are even available, they're an 'optional extra'. Well excuse me! Isn't this a 'legal requirement' or not? Secondly, the solutions to this issue that I have seen have been afterthoughts to the problem rather than designs in harmony with the pedals themselves. It's almost as if Shimano didn't figure the legal requirement when designing their pedals. Or, maybe they just thought that SPDs fitted to off-road machines negating the requirement to have them fitted. Maybe they didn't figure how popular these pedals would become amongst commuters. Who knows. 

One thing is for sure, if these are a legal requirement, manufacturers should ensure that the provision to fit them is catered for so that a cyclist can remain within the law if they choose to do so.


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## crazyjoe101 (1 Nov 2013)

Ady_E said:


> I've ridden bikes without pedal reflectors day and night most of my life (I'm 43) without issue from the authorities or insurers in times of crisis. However, recently, a letter was issued to all cyclists using the Torpoint Ferry (between Devonport, Plymouth and Torpoint, Cornwall) reminding them of their responsibilities as road users, which was all very one sided if you ask me but that open to debate in another thread maybe.
> 
> In this letter, various cycle related issues were discussed and one of them was a reminder of the legal requirement to have amber penal reflectors fitted to a machine manufactured after 1985. I find myself here during my research into the the issue of fitting such devices to SPD pedals.
> 
> ...



Spot on. It's a bit lazy really, they know that their "off road" pedals are going to be used on road and a better solution than blocking half of your double sided pedals should be available really. The 'trivial' nature of the law should not be relevant, the principle is that it should be just as easy for us to make a bicycle 'road worthy' as it is for any other road user to make their vehicle of choice road worthy. If that includes being able to clip an orange thing on without obstructing normal use then so be it.


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## andrew_s (2 Nov 2013)

As with lights, the British laws are ignored and we get whatever is good for the rest of the world. If the law was ever enforced, there may be a big enough market to warrant a special UK model of something, but as it's not the manufacturers don't bother.

I use Shimano PD-T780 SPD/Flat with proper reflectors on one bike, and make do with reflective ankle bands on the other.


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## Tyke (3 Nov 2013)

If you can be seen in the dark with good lights BS or not it will never be a problem for the police. It may be for the insurance as a way out if you put in a claim they can say your lights are not standard or no reflectors so no payout but I think its better to use the ones that work not the ones that are BS


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## buggi (3 Nov 2013)

well as the law stands, i think my 2 extremely bright lights back and front, reflective piping on my tights, reflective bits on my shoes, hi viz ankle wraps (which combined instigated this comment from a driving colleague... "my god, you are well visible" ... after they drove past me) far outstrip any BS standard required by law, so I'd like to see any insurance company take me on in court to reduce my compensation.
well, maybe not, coz that would mean I'd been hit off, but you know what i mean.

i think the more worrying thing is the CTCs report into bad investigating, including the disposal of evidence. I suppose they can't dispose of your pedals!!
wearing ankle straps is far easier than faffing around trying to get reflectors on SPuDs tho


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