# Hand signals?



## GuyBoden (29 Jun 2018)

Hand Signals, who uses them?
https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/technique/essential-guide-road-cycling-hand-signals-calls/







Slowing down.





Stopping.




Pothole.





Indicating.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jun 2018)

When necessary I do. Be predictable and avoid conflict.


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## GuyBoden (29 Jun 2018)

I've always thought that the slowing down signal can easily be interpreted as an indication to turn by other road users.


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## Threevok (29 Jun 2018)

I only tend to use them at roundabouts


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

Hand signals are interesting to me. I notice lots of secret signalling going on at the beginning of the shorter 100km Audax rides. Towards the end, not so much. And I rarely see any at all on the 200km events. There must be some bigoted explanation.


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## pjd57 (29 Jun 2018)

On led rides , the ride leader will put an arm straight up , not to stop , but to ask their assistant to come up front beside them , usually at a junction.


I usually indicate and will point at potholes when out with others.

Never use the slowing down signal


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

I use left and right arm signals when approaching junctions, plus I always wave to acknowledge anyone who has stopped to leave a gap for me to turn across or get through when coming the other way. I don't bother with other signals, because a lot of others would not understand the intention of them. Being polite means the other driver is more likely to make room again next time, and minimises negative motorist attitude towards cyclists. 
I myself hate other road users who are rude and don't signal their intentions, so it's reasonable to assume other road users likewise expect me to signal and acknowledge courtesy.


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## Profpointy (29 Jun 2018)

It's often, maybe usually, best NOT to signal left when cycling as it tends to encourage stupid overtakes, or clowns left hooking you into the turn


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## Threevok (29 Jun 2018)

Profpointy said:


> It's often, maybe usually, best NOT to signal left when cycling as it tends to encourage stupid overtakes, or clowns left hooking you into the turn



Indeed.

On a roundabout, I will only signal my intentions to go straight ahead, and only then when I am reaching my exit.

This is more a politeness to people approaching the roundabout, so they don't slow down or stop just for me.


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## Crackle (29 Jun 2018)

Not the stop one but I've used and do use the others. It's becoming more difficult to indicate at junctions as the road surface is so bad in places that taking a hand off the bars is not an option.


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## GuyBoden (29 Jun 2018)

Shouting, "I'm stopping" is sometimes more effective.......


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## Alan O (29 Jun 2018)

I indicate turns, when it's safe for me to do so.

I remember one time when I turned left without indicating (uphill, sharp left, narrow lane, both hands needed on the bars). A driver followed me on the same turn, and someone in the car rather snottily shouted "You're supposed to use hand signals."

So I used a hand signal.

And he still wasn't happy.

You can't please some people.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

Profpointy said:


> It's often, maybe usually, best NOT to signal left when cycling as it tends to encourage stupid overtakes, or clowns left hooking you into the turn



Not signalling left then veering off without warning also tends to irritate other road users though. Presumably as a cyclist you expect motorists to signal their left turns? Well, they also expect us to signal the same! The Highway Code says something along the lines of "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user". It applies to everybody.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

There was one point on what used to be my regular commute where signalling was problematic - a right turn halfway down a steep descent. It's simply not possible to signal right and operate the front brake at the same time.

The solution was to signal well in advance of the turn, move across towards the middle of the road to prevent overtaking, then return my hand to the bars in time to brake. I did on occasion have idiots overtake me who seemed to assume that because I was returning my hand to the bars I was deciding not to turn right after all.


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## Racing roadkill (29 Jun 2018)

I have to, on my led group rides. You soon learn what happens if you don’t. Even when I’m riding solo, most of the hand signals are a good idea:


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## Threevok (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Not signalling left then veering off without warning also tends to irritate other road users though. Presumably as a cyclist you expect motorists to signal their left turns? Well, they also expect us to signal the same! The Highway Code says something along the lines of "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user". It applies to everybody.



Who said I was veering off ?

and by the way "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user" is exactly what I described doing,.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

Threevok said:


> Who said I was veering off ?
> 
> and by the way "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user" is exactly what I described doing,.



I was referring to @Profpointy - who seemed to be saying it's better to just ride along as though you are going straight ahead, then suddenly disappear to the left down a side road without giving any indication of your intention. The problem with this approach is anyone following in a vehicle tends to then think "why didn't that w***** riding the bike bother to tell me he was about to turn off?" It's just perceived by following motorists as bad/improper use of the road.


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## Tim Hall (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I was referring to @Profpointy - who seemed to be saying it's better to just ride along as though you are going straight ahead, then suddenly disappear to the left down a side road without giving any indication of your intention. The problem with this approach is anyone following in a vehicle tends to then think "why didn't that w***** riding the bike bother to tell me he was about to turn off?" It's just perceived by following motorists as bad/improper use of the road.


How do you know how it's perceived? How do you know what anyone in a following vehicle is thinking?


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## Dayvo (29 Jun 2018)

I do, but mostly this one - (un)fortunately it's not recognised here.


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## Profpointy (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I was referring to @Profpointy - who seemed to be saying it's better to just ride along as though you are going straight ahead, then suddenly disappear to the left down a side road without giving any indication of your intention. The problem with this approach is anyone following in a vehicle tends to then think "why didn't that w***** riding the bike bother to tell me he was about to turn off?" It's just perceived by following motorists as bad/improper use of the road.



I strongly recommend you are very cautious about indicating left if you cycle much in town. If you indicate (left) as a matter of habit you will be hit


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## Racing roadkill (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I was referring to @Profpointy - who seemed to be saying it's better to just ride along as though you are going straight ahead, then suddenly disappear to the left down a side road without giving any indication of your intention. The problem with this approach is anyone following in a vehicle tends to then think "why didn't that w***** riding the bike bother to tell me he was about to turn off?" It's just perceived by following motorists as bad/improper use of the road.



It’s also likely to end up in tears, if you’ve picked up a silent wheel sucker. I had one last weekend. I had to come to an unplanned halt, owing to my front tyre puncturing rapidly, there was no time for any signal, and the idiot who’d planted himself on my rear wheel, without highlighting his presence nearly ended up as a bonnet ornament.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> There was one point on what used to be my regular commute where signalling was problematic - a right turn halfway down a steep descent. It's simply not possible to signal right and operate the front brake at the same time.


It is if you have the front brake lever where it should be - on the left 

It's what us cool kids do.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> It’s also likely to end up in tears, if you’ve picked up a silent wheel sucker. I had one last weekend. I had to come to an unplanned halt, owing to my front tyre puncturing rapidly, there was no time for any signal, and the idiot who’d planted himself on my rear wheel, without highlighting his presence nearly ended up as a bonnet ornament.



First hand experience of this. The fellow overlapping to the left of my wheel has first elbow experience of this. And 8 stitches to hold it all together experience of this. The amount of gravel he collected was impressive.


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## User10119 (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The Highway Code says something along the lines of "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user". It applies to everybody.


Can someone with proper internet connectivity (am currently dipping in and out of signal on a Northern service over to the other side of the hills and reading on a poky phone screen) look up what it actually says? My memory tells me that cyclists are told something like indicate when it is safe do so and motor vehicle drivers are advised that cyclists may not always be able to indicate... But struggling to load pages and check.

The point being that indicating in a motor vehicle is a question of flicking a lever whereas on a bike it can be trickier.


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## boydj (29 Jun 2018)

Profpointy said:


> It's often, maybe usually, best NOT to signal left when cycling as it tends to encourage stupid overtakes, or clowns left hooking you into the turn



I brought this up at the Cycle Trainer course I did, which surprised the trainer somewhat. However, the very next ride we did a car cut across the lead rider as we were about to turn left.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Jun 2018)

I just use audax sign language, but only on 100km ones.


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## Milkfloat (29 Jun 2018)

For stopping round these parts, it is:




Which is a patting motion towards the ground. However, in practice it is usually shouts of 'stopping' or 'slowing' that works, especially in an emergence when grabbing handfuls of lever.


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## RoubaixCube (29 Jun 2018)

Quite handy this thread


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## The Crofted Crest (29 Jun 2018)

[QUOTE 5294926, member: 10119"]Can someone with proper internet connectivity look up what it actually says? [/QUOTE]

Rule 103:

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (download ‘Signals to other road users’ (PDF, 102KB)), of your intended actions. You should always


give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
cancel them after use
make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I just use audax sign language, but only on 100km ones.



 Dry. So dry. The driest. That’s also the funniest funny of 2018 for me. That’ll take some beating.


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## boydj (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Not signalling left then veering off without warning also tends to irritate other road users though. Presumably as a cyclist you expect motorists to signal their left turns? Well, they also expect us to signal the same! The Highway Code says something along the lines of "always give a signal where it would be useful to another road user". It applies to everybody.



The only situation where a left signal is appropriate is where the only other vehicle in the vicinity is one waiting to come out of the road you are turning into - a courtesy signal.


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## DaveReading (29 Jun 2018)

boydj said:


> The only situation where a left signal is appropriate is where the only other vehicle in the vicinity is one waiting to come out of the road you are turning into - a courtesy signal.



Yes, if I was waiting to turn out of a side road (whether in a car or on a bike) I would be justifiably annoyed if a cyclist failed to signal that they were turning left into the side road.

But I couldn't care less if a cyclist I'm following behind turns left without signalling.


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## Tin Pot (29 Jun 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> View attachment 416911


Small Children On Pavement


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## Tin Pot (29 Jun 2018)

Dayvo said:


> View attachment 416892



On reflection, I think you will find that your opinion is flawed.


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## Tin Pot (29 Jun 2018)

GuyBoden said:


> View attachment 416858


Calm down, calm down (esp. Liverpudlian)


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## Tin Pot (29 Jun 2018)

You see that spot over there? Yes? Yes, good. That’s the spot I will shortly be occupying.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> View attachment 416949



“Look! Doggers!”


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## Tim Hall (29 Jun 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Small Children On Pavement


Harlem Globetrotters out on a bike ride.


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## mgs315 (29 Jun 2018)

I use all the OPs apart from Stopping. I tend to shout ‘stopping’ soon after ‘slowing’ so those that need to know are usually within shouting distance. Shout ‘hole’, ‘gravel’ (on bend), ‘car up’ and ‘car back’ too as usual shouts. Try to even on commutes when it helps though I’m sure I get odd looks.


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## Alan O (29 Jun 2018)

I've just remembered that a couple of weeks ago I turned my head back and shouted a warning to my cycling companion, without noticing he'd fallen back and been overtaken by someone. I've no idea if the other poor guy had any idea why I'd shouted "horse poo" at him.


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## mjr (2 Jul 2018)

pjd57 said:


> On led rides , the ride leader will put an arm straight up , not to stop , but to ask their assistant to come up front beside them , usually at a junction.l


Whatever group is using that instead of the "ten-pin bowling" signal needs farking shooting before the infection spreads.


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## mjr (2 Jul 2018)

Dayvo said:


> I do, but mostly this one - (un)fortunately it's not recognised here.
> 
> View attachment 416892


You're accusing them of breaking the Baby Milk Action Nestle Boycott?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuzyMCt4XlQ




Profpointy said:


> I strongly recommend you are very cautious about indicating left if you cycle much in town. If you indicate (left) as a matter of habit you will be hit


Depends which town: in some, if you don't indicate left, you may be taken forcefully from the rear by another cyclist if you brake sharply to make the turn and at best will be called various names.


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## Profpointy (2 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> You're accusing them of breaking the Baby Milk Action Nestle Boycott?
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuzyMCt4XlQ
> 
> ...




Breaking sharply without signalling is a different thing I feel.


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## mjr (2 Jul 2018)

mgs315 said:


> I use all the OPs apart from Stopping. I tend to shout ‘stopping’ soon after ‘slowing’ so those that need to know are usually within shouting distance. Shout ‘hole’, ‘gravel’ (on bend), ‘car up’ and ‘car back’ too as usual shouts. Try to even on commutes when it helps though I’m sure I get odd looks.


Be careful with "car up". Different groups use that to mean ar up ahead, car moving up the group (= overtaking) or even car uphill! (Although I've just rechecked and the group that I was told did that has now changed to front/back.) https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/car-up-car-back-car-down.192591/


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## mjr (2 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> “Look! Doggers!”


@Dogtrousers was nowhere near there!


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## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2018)

GuyBoden said:


> I've always thought that the slowing down signal can easily be interpreted as an indication to turn by other road users.


When I did my ride leader course our instructor got beeped at because the driver behind understood he was turning right 



pjd57 said:


> On led rides , the ride leader will put an arm straight up , not to stop , but to ask their assistant to come up front beside them , usually at a junction.





mjr said:


> Whatever group is using that instead of the "ten-pin bowling" signal needs farking shooting before the infection spreads.


The motion is actually an "agitation of the arm raised up" (@pjd57 and I sometimes ride with the same leaders) but the "agitation" is mostly dispensed with, we know what they mean.
Once I had a bit too many riders, so a promoted another to keep an eye on the back.
At a tricky junction I shouted her name, raised and waived my arm: she did not come ... oh, I thought you were just waving at me ... 
The stopping thing is a hazard, I just shout slowing down, then stopping.


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## nickyboy (2 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> if you don't indicate left, you may be taken forcefully from the rear by another cyclist



Blimey, I'm unlikely to make that mistake twice


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## Will Spin (2 Jul 2018)

The group I ride with also uses an arm up the back signal to warn following riders of pedestrians in the road.


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## mgs315 (2 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> Be careful with "car up". Different groups use that to mean ar up ahead, car moving up the group (= overtaking) or even car uphill! (Although I've just rechecked and the group that I was told did that has now changed to front/back.) https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/car-up-car-back-car-down.192591/



Aye I’ve heard a few interchanges of certain words. Up and back seem to be the common ones round here but I usually just assume that if I can’t see a car just tuck in and be prepared to slow/stop and it’ll work out ok.


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## mjr (2 Jul 2018)

Will Spin said:


> The group I ride with also uses an arm up the back signal to warn following riders of pedestrians in the road.


Is it physically possible to do the Yellow pages walking fingers UP one's back?


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## mjr (3 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> What's that? Just curious, that's all.


Right arm extended downwards, hand open, palm forwards, swinging back and forth through the vertical. Signal for the following vehicle to come alongside. Used to be in the highway code way back when. Cannot be confused with the stop signal like that other one.


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jul 2018)

How can a ride leader use that sign to get another leader to join them at a junction, when the back marker/middle marker can be quite a distance away?
They would not be able to see it, hence the leader's arm in the air waving thing.


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## mjr (4 Jul 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> How can a ride leader use that sign to get another leader to join them at a junction, when the back marker/middle marker can be quite a distance away?
> They would not be able to see it, hence the leader's arm in the air waving thing.


How are they a backmarker or middle marker if they're not at the back/middle? And surely no-one should be overtaking on the approach to a junction. This all sounds like very poor roadcraft/ridecraft and not a good reason to misuse a stop signal.


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## Gravity Aided (4 Jul 2018)

I used to use the slowing down signal, but in baseball, as a signal to the pitcher for a sinker (ball). We used to use the same signaling as autos for bicycles, until someone figured out bicycles are somewhat different, now we just point direction of travel.


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## Salad Dodger (4 Jul 2018)

I use them for turning right and left, but not for slowing down, as I am generally going slow anyway!


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## Pat "5mph" (4 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> How are they a backmarker or middle marker if they're not at the back/middle? And surely no-one should be overtaking on the approach to a junction. This all sounds like very poor roadcraft/ridecraft and not a good reason to misuse a stop signal.


Uhh, did you think I was referring to a club ride?
Imagine a social beginners group, scattered, some slower than others, some a bit wobbly, some ok but chatting, trusting the leaders to tell them when to stop or when to go.
The leaders try to stay on segregated paths, but of course sometimes the group must cross the odd junction due to the randomness of our cycle routes.
Yes, the participants of some of the led rides I go on have very poor cyclecraft, but the aim is to get them out, have fun, discover new places, all in a safe environment.


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## mjr (4 Jul 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Uhh, did you think I was referring to a club ride?
> Imagine a social beginners group, scattered, some slower than others, some a bit wobbly, some ok but chatting, trusting the leaders to tell them when to stop or when to go.


I don't need to imagine because I've ridden with some and helped with others, as recently as "Pedal And Chat" a week ago yesterday. A social beginners group should not be encouraging participants to blindly trust leaders to tell them when to stop or go IMO. To do so is to store up several sorts of trouble, including for a leader who misjudges a participant's acceleration (or lack thereof). It is important to help beginners learn to look and decide for themselves, rather than try to do it for them.



Pat "5mph" said:


> Yes, the participants of some of the led rides I go on have very poor cyclecraft, [...]


I was referring to the middle/back markers overtaking on the approaches to junction, not the ordinary participants.


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## Lovacott (19 Sep 2020)

GuyBoden said:


> Hand Signals, who uses them?



I use three signals. Left, Right and a wave to let people past me on a single track country lane (I either pull into a farm gate or stop the bike and lean into the hedgerow to give the car/tractor room to pass). I don't indicate that I am slowing down because I doubt that any car driver would have a clue what it meant anyway.

I find myself indicating left and right even on empty roads out of pure habit/reflex.

Most other cyclists I see near me only bother with indicating right and I rarely see anyone indicate left. 

I didn't know about the pothole signal but then I don't ride in a group.


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## Chris S (19 Sep 2020)

I never use hand signals, my local roads are so bad that I don't risk taking my hands of the bars.


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## Profpointy (19 Sep 2020)

I would be quite selective about indicating left. It can encourage those of a clownish persuasion to overtake then cut in front and turn left across your path - ditto those approaching turning right across your path. I do still do it if it helps someone trying to pull out and to show the chap behind that I'm going to slow down - but I'll usually take the centre of my lane to avoid the turning-the-corner-beside-you trick


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## Lovacott (19 Sep 2020)

Profpointy said:


> I would be quite selective about indicating left. It can encourage those of a clownish persuasion to overtake then cut in front and turn left across your path...



I've been wiped out twice by left turning cars cutting in front of me. The second time it happened was in Willesden and the annoying thing was that he turned left in front of me to join a queue in the road to the left (no gain for him, plenty of pain for me).

I picked myself up off the road with a bloody left knee and wrist and went to confront him. His excuse was that he hadn't seen me. 

I was wearing a waterboard issue winter hi viz jacket and had lights back and front and it was a well lit main road. 

FFS.


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## steve292 (21 Sep 2020)

Lovacott said:


> I've been wiped out twice by left turning cars cutting in front of me. The second time it happened was in Willesden and the annoying thing was that he turned left in front of me to join a queue in the road to the left (no gain for him, plenty of pain for me).
> 
> I picked myself up off the road with a bloody left knee and wrist and went to confront him. His excuse was that he hadn't seen me.
> 
> ...


Camera. If you had had anything that looked like a camera on you or the bike he'd have seen you.


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## mjr (21 Sep 2020)

steve292 said:


> Camera. If you had had anything that looked like a camera on you or the bike he'd have seen you.


So is the best bike light a small and very slow flashing coloured LED on a plastic cube on the handlebars?


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## steve292 (21 Sep 2020)

mjr said:


> So is the best bike light a small and very slow flashing coloured LED on a plastic cube on the handlebars?


Whatever


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2020)

mjr said:


> So is the best bike light a small and very slow flashing coloured LED on a plastic cube on the handlebars?


Isn't any colour, other than white, illegal on the front of a bike?


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## steve292 (21 Sep 2020)

Who said anything about lights? All I was itimating was that these people who claim not to see cyclists, seem to have no trouble picking out the camera on my bars, even to the extent of changing direction mid manouver. sheesh, where's the sense of irony gone around here?


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## mjr (22 Sep 2020)

steve292 said:


> sheesh, where's the sense of irony gone around here?


Probably crushed by the death of the sense of humour.


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