# Saw a cyclist getting pulled over by an unmarked car last night



## gaz (12 Dec 2013)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cERoILsTwXk


Not a good idea to swear at a police officer and then backchat him when you're in the wrong!


----------



## Leedsbusdriver (12 Dec 2013)

Rather than watching that non event unfold you could have been two minutes further down the road.


----------



## User6179 (12 Dec 2013)

Some nosey gits out there


----------



## jowwy (12 Dec 2013)

Leedsbusdriver said:


> Rather than watching that non event unfold you could have been two minutes further down the road.


3mins and 40secs down the road lol


----------



## fossyant (12 Dec 2013)

Telling an officer to do one is not a good idea.


----------



## gaz (12 Dec 2013)

Leedsbusdriver said:


> Rather than watching that non event unfold you could have been two minutes further down the road.





jowwy said:


> 3mins and 40secs down the road lol


it was sped up. it was actually 8mins. I was interested, didn't have any where I had to be.


----------



## fossyant (12 Dec 2013)

Gaz you are a meanie for filming him being given a rollocking.


----------



## fossyant (12 Dec 2013)

And you didn't even shout 'ha ha !'


----------



## LCpl Boiled Egg (12 Dec 2013)

Just as you pull up, a car goes by with only one working rear light... hopefully he made a note and caught up with the driver later...


----------



## Adam4868 (12 Dec 2013)

On a slightly different angle,if i find someone who i dont know filming me there going to get more than a f off.


----------



## Frood42 (12 Dec 2013)

Will we see this as the headline act on the next episode of silly cyclists?
.


----------



## LCpl Boiled Egg (12 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> On a slightly different angle,if i find someone who i dont know filming me there going to get more than a f off.



Best you don't leave the house then. There's a lot of people out there filming nowadays...


----------



## Twelve Spokes (12 Dec 2013)

ABikeCam said:


> Best you don't leave the house then. There's a lot of people out there filming nowadays...



Not just on bikes.


----------



## Adam4868 (12 Dec 2013)

ABikeCam said:


> Best you don't leave the house then. There's a lot of people out there filming nowadays...


I know,but when someone sticks a phone/camera in my face they aint getting away with it......


----------



## Cycling Dan (12 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> I know,but when someone sticks a phone/camera in my face they aint getting away with it......


You must be new to the internet.
Welcome to the internet Adam.


----------



## Adam4868 (12 Dec 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> You must be new to the internet.
> Welcome to the internet Adam.


Not new,maybe grumpy ? Im sure i get filmed however many times a day,but when someone wants to stick a camera phone in my face, for there and others entertainment.There will be a reaction.Simple.


----------



## Tim Hall (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> Not new,maybe grumpy ? Im sure i get filmed however many times a day,but when someone wants to stick a camera phone in my face, for there and others entertainment.There will be a reaction.Simple.


Which might end up with arrests for public order offences. You're in public, you can be photographed.


----------



## ufkacbln (13 Dec 2013)

I had one case where I stopped at an accident (Chavriolet pulled out of a junction into the side of an old couple's car) 
As I had been a few yards behind, and seeing the Chavriolet's approach speed I had assumed he was going to pull out between me and the car, not into the car though. 

The Chave was aggressive abut the whole thing so I stayed with the elderly couple.

Police arrived fairly promptly and when I told the Plice I had the whole thing on video and would hand in the SD card, Chav went of on another one threatening violence as I had filmed him.

Police told him that he opened his mouth again he would be intimidating a witness.


----------



## gaz (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> I know,but when someone sticks a phone/camera in my face they aint getting away with it......


I'm not sure how any of your comments are relative to the topic at hand. Considering nothing was shoved in anyones face.


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Dec 2013)

gaz said:


> I'm not sure how any of your comments are relative to the topic at hand. Considering nothing was shoved in anyones face.


So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.


----------



## vickster (13 Dec 2013)

Is Adam the filmee? Seems quite sensitive about it


----------



## Spinney (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.


He stopped to watch (as many of us might).
He happened to be wearing a camera that was filming.

I should think...


----------



## theFire (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.



I don't think he was off duty, unless the police let their officers take their unmarked cars home?


----------



## colly (13 Dec 2013)

The cyclist was a farking nob head of the first order. Why wouldn't you get it on camera?


----------



## User6179 (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> Not new,maybe grumpy ? Im sure i get filmed however many times a day,but when someone wants to stick a camera phone in my face, for there and others entertainment.There will be a reaction.Simple.



Do you run away and hide?


----------



## gaz (13 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.


Off duty? Unmarked does not mean off duty.

We should film the police at points, it makes them accountable for any actions that they take and to be fair to this officer, he was on the ball, correct and handled the situation well, unlike the cyclist.

Notice how I didn't get involved, I'm just a bystander, not getting in the way, not provoking.


----------



## buggi (14 Dec 2013)

i can't see the video very well on my phone but did you actually see him go over the stop line? Looks like he crossed from the pavement to the traffic island and then, when the traffic cleared, proceeded over the 2nd part of the road and on his way. I see nothing wrong with that. If that's what he did no wonder he told the cop where to go.


----------



## Twelve Spokes (14 Dec 2013)

Cop car drafted me today near Waterloo then gave me a very searching look as they went past,then I overtook them again.Don't know what that was all about.


----------



## gaz (14 Dec 2013)

buggi said:


> i can't see the video very well on my phone but did you actually see him go over the stop line? Looks like he crossed from the pavement to the traffic island and then, when the traffic cleared, proceeded over the 2nd part of the road and on his way. I see nothing wrong with that. If that's what he did no wonder he told the cop where to go.


The cyclists didn't argue with what the office described as happening. and from what I could make of it, he approached the lights on the wrong side of the traffic island, into oncoming traffic.  See here.

Which doesn't surprise me, I had previously seen the cyclist just ahead of me on another road and suspected he jumped a set of lights when I decided to hang back. As when I got to the lights and made the turn, he was no where in sight. That turn leads up to the approach as to where the video starts and if the cyclist did have a good road position, he should have been visible to me, he wasn't.


----------



## buggi (14 Dec 2013)

gaz said:


> The cyclists didn't argue with what the office described as happening. and from what I could make of it, he approached the lights on the wrong side of the traffic island, into oncoming traffic.  See here.
> 
> Which doesn't surprise me, I had previously seen the cyclist just ahead of me on another road and suspected he jumped a set of lights when I decided to hang back. As when I got to the lights and made the turn, he was no where in sight. That turn leads up to the approach as to where the video starts and if the cyclist did have a good road position, he should have been visible to me, he wasn't.


 o i see, well i can't coz I'm still on my phone but i get ya.


----------



## CopperBrompton (15 Dec 2013)

Twelve Spokes said:


> Cop car drafted me today near Waterloo then gave me a very searching look as they went past,then I overtook them again.Don't know what that was all about.


Your bike matched the description of a stolen one, and they were checking it wasn't the one they were look-

Sorry, was dreaming there for a moment.


----------



## mr_cellophane (15 Dec 2013)

Policemen are never "off duty" only "off shift"


----------



## HLaB (15 Dec 2013)

That good example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill; Policeman tells you to be careful, so you tell him to F'off


----------



## mustang1 (15 Dec 2013)

Adam, you are allowed to film from a public location.


----------



## gaz (16 Dec 2013)

[QUOTE 2823340, member: 45"]Gaz, how do you know how the conversation went?[/quote]
I could hear the conversation they were having.


----------



## 400bhp (16 Dec 2013)

[QUOTE 2823340, member: 45"]Gaz, how do you know how the conversation went?[/quote]


----------



## Adam4868 (16 Dec 2013)

gaz said:


> I could hear the conversation they were having.


Too much time on your hands mate.


----------



## gaz (16 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> Too much time on your hands mate.


Maybe you are too busy. On some days I may have had plans and may not have had time to spare. On others, like that day, I had no further plans for the day and was able to take a 'rest' and listen in.


----------



## ianrauk (17 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> Too much time on your hands mate.



Lucky Gaz...


----------



## BlackPanther (21 Dec 2013)

Adam4868 said:


> I know,but when someone sticks a phone/camera in my face they aint getting away with it......





What do you mean by "they aint getting away with it"? Now, if someone walked up to my house with a camera I might take offense, but if I'm out in public, then a person has every right to film in a public place. The camera wasn't "stuck in his face". I suspect that if you told someone they should stop filming (in a public place) and then said they "weren't going to get away with it", you should not be surprised if the person filming took that as a real threat (I think I would), and maybe they'd preemptively knock you on your arse if you approached them?


----------



## 400bhp (21 Dec 2013)

Aye and it wasn't as if Gaz suddendly started filming. He was already doing so.

I actually reckon Gaz had stopped for a cig break


----------



## PaulSB (2 Jan 2014)

Adam4868 said:


> So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.



I agree with you Adam but you won't find much sympathy out there for your view. Nor will you get a straight answer to the question.


----------



## steveindenmark (2 Jan 2014)

gaz said:


> I could hear the conversation they were having.



Well we couldn't and we couldn't see anything either.

Before posting these things it may help if you preview them to find out what we can see and hear.

But what has this incident got to do with you? Maybe like a lot of these web cammers / wannabe police officers, you should throw the camera away and concentrate on your own riding.

Steve


----------



## gaz (2 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Well we couldn't and we couldn't see anything either.
> 
> Before posting these things it may help if you preview them to find out what we can see and hear.
> 
> ...


Obviously I previewed it, and I knew you couldn't hear anything clearly, hence why I added an accurate description of what was said.

Steve, if you don't like these kind of things then don't watch them.


----------



## steveindenmark (2 Jan 2014)

You previewed it and could see that we couldn't hear it or see and still you posted it on here and on Youtube.

Then you added your own commentary.

I don't even think you can explain why you posted a clip which you knew we couldn't see or hear. Maybe it was just to show you have a webcam.

Just for future reference. Policemen are used to dealing with gobby members of the public. I should know. It is not film worthy, especially when you can't see anything.

I watch them in the hope that one day a web cammer will post something other than traffic doing what it does every day. Or maybe I will see a clip where some plank is not shouting out registration numbers where he thinks another vehicle has committed some misdemeanor, while all the time not concentrating on his own riding. 

Whatever I watch them for there is no doubt that yours was a waste of time.

Steve


----------



## CopperBrompton (2 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Maybe it was just to show you have a webcam.



You'd need a pretty long USB lead to film a cycle ride with a webcam.


----------



## gaz (2 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Whatever I watch them for there is no doubt that yours was a waste of time.


No different to all of your posts then. I guess we have something in common.


----------



## triangles (2 Jan 2014)

Sorry to be so off-topic but I've been thinking about getting some sort of camera for commuting myself, is there a thread where you have discussed what you use with its various pros & cons gaz?


----------



## glenn forger (2 Jan 2014)

Good discussion in the "have you seen any bargains?" thread triangle.


----------



## CopperBrompton (2 Jan 2014)

I've just swapped my VIO POV HD for a Garmin VIRB Elite, and am impressed so far. Will post a review when I've used it a bit more.


----------



## PK99 (2 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Y
> Or maybe I will see a clip where some plank is not shouting out registration numbers where he thinks another vehicle has committed some misdemeanor, *while all the time not concentrating on his own riding*.



Picking up on that point:

In a recent thread re passing parked cars/stopped busses etc and the need to signal. the argument was put that it is better to keep full control of the bike by keeping two hands on the bars - an arguable point of view. Ironic therefore to see in so many cycle cam videos the camera cyclist pointing vigourously at their head cam (or hear the tapping thereon)


----------



## gaz (2 Jan 2014)

PK99 said:


> Picking up on that point:
> 
> In a recent thread re passing parked cars/stopped busses etc and the need to signal. the argument was put that it is better to keep full control of the bike by keeping two hands on the bars - an arguable point of view. Ironic therefore to see in so many cycle cam videos the camera cyclist pointing vigourously at their head cam (or hear the tapping thereon)


If you have trouble controlling your bicycle with one hand for a few seconds whilst you indicate your intentions, then you need some more practice at bicycle control!


----------



## gaz (2 Jan 2014)

triangles said:


> Sorry to be so off-topic but I've been thinking about getting some sort of camera for commuting myself, is there a thread where you have discussed what you use with its various pros & cons gaz?


Have a read of this http://www.cyclecamera.tv/guide-to-buying-a-helmet-camera/


----------



## triangles (3 Jan 2014)

Cheers gaz


----------



## fabregas485 (3 Jan 2014)

Don't like it? Don't watch it then...

Gaz was, in my eyes, doing a favour for the cyclist in recording the situation in case something did happen.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jan 2014)

fabregas485 said:


> Don't like it? Don't watch it then...
> 
> Gaz was, in my eyes, doing a favour for the cyclist in recording the situation in case something did happen.


Remind me to not ask for a favour then


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> You previewed it and could see that we couldn't hear it or see and still you posted it on here and on Youtube.
> 
> Then you added your own commentary.
> 
> ...


There is this one fella on YouTube (sonofthewindsinc) who cycles around London day and night.
I get the fact that he's been knocked down before, so I see why he cams. But all he does is indescriminatly shout out car number plates and when he is at the lights or sometimes moving, he produces a red card like a football referee and shows it to the driver.
Also, he very often taps on car windscreens and tells people to put their seat belt on or stop talking on their phone, then shows a red card and cycles off...sorry, but it is really comical.


----------



## glenn forger (3 Jan 2014)

He also catches some appalling driving:


View: http://youtu.be/SEArYeFfMbQ


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> He also catches some appalling driving:
> 
> 
> View: http://youtu.be/SEArYeFfMbQ



You're dead right, he does. But that is a very small minority of what he does on the road.
I just find it very amusing, and I wonder what he thinks gives him the right to approach cars that are not anything to do with him(close pass wise and the like) he does infact seem like a nice sort of a bloke. But when he cycles past a car and starts waving that red card that he produces from his bag strap, it just makes me laugh.


----------



## L14M (3 Jan 2014)

Yeah "traffic droid" makes me cringe but he seems like a nice guy!
Liam


----------



## glenn forger (3 Jan 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I wonder what he thinks gives him the right to approach cars that are not anything to do with him(close pass wise and the like).



Close passes have got everything to do with him!


----------



## steveindenmark (3 Jan 2014)

I've seen a few of his clips and I think that he gets away with it because he is a nice guy. But all it needs is one upset driver to get out and batter him.

Steve


----------



## L14M (3 Jan 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> I've seen a few of his clips and I think that he gets away with it because he is a nice guy. But all it needs is one upset driver to get out and batter him.
> 
> Steve


Tbh, I think what puts them off is its london.. He looks quite tall and strong being a cyclist etc.. Also its on film..


----------



## fabregas485 (3 Jan 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> There is this one fella on YouTube (sonofthewindsinc) who cycles around London day and night.
> I get the fact that he's been knocked down before, so I see why he cams. But all he does is indescriminatly shout out car number plates and when he is at the lights or sometimes moving, he produces a red card like a football referee and shows it to the driver.
> Also, he very often taps on car windscreens and tells people to put their seat belt on or stop talking on their phone, then shows a red card and cycles off...sorry, but it is really comical.


That is going too far with the red card. His bike is well kitted out though xD


----------



## glenn forger (3 Jan 2014)

He doesn't indiscriminately shout reg's out. Post an example of what you mean.


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Close passes have got everything to do with him!


Have you not read my post properly?


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> He doesn't indiscriminately shout reg's out. Post an example of what you mean.


He does!! Just watch him.


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

fabregas485 said:


> That is going too far with the red card. His bike is well kitted out though xD


How? Sorry, ignore that mate. Another thread intended.


----------



## potsy (3 Jan 2014)

Makes me smile when he pulls his red card out, he does capture some apalling driving but needs to stop acting like a copper, all this 'road traffic violation' stuff and phrases like 'he's finished' when someone does a close pass or other stupid manoeuvre


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

L14M said:


> Tbh, I think what puts them off is its london.. He looks quite tall and strong being a cyclist etc.. Also its on film..


I am not proposing anyone hits him, but I do think one day he will show his red card to the wrong person.


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

potsy said:


> Makes me smile when he pulls his red card out, he does capture some apalling driving but needs to stop acting like a copper, all this 'road traffic violation' stuff and phrases like 'he's finished' when someone does a close pass or other stupid manoeuvre


You got it mate! Light heartd. Too many on here are quick to jump.


----------



## steveindenmark (3 Jan 2014)

potsy said:


> Makes me smile when he pulls his red card out, he does capture some apalling driving but needs to stop acting like a copper, all this 'road traffic violation' stuff and phrases like 'he's finished' when someone does a close pass or other stupid manoeuvre




I think all head cammers need to stop acting like wannabe coppers.

That was a near miss. See how calm he was when he caught up :0).

Steve


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Close passes have got everything to do with him!


Sorry I worded that wrong. I meant everything else apart from the stuff in the brackets..


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> He doesn't indiscriminately shout reg's out. Post an example of what you mean.


Quite a few times he is sat at the lights. And at the lights directly opposite a car maybe creeps into the asl or goes over the stop line or something. 
Considering the lights are still red he starts to shout across the road "TRAFFIC VIOLATION!" Then he quotes sometimes his own version of the Highway Code. Once the lights turn green he cycles straight across the lights past the offender waving his red card shouting out things like "You"ll been on YouTube within 48hrs or I'm reporting you to the police" all the time waving this red card at the car. Then once past he slips the card back into his bag strap until the next violation appears.
The look on the drivers faces is utter confusion. Then he is gone!


----------



## glenn forger (3 Jan 2014)

Haven't seen any of that.


----------



## Roadrider48 (3 Jan 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Haven't seen any of that.


Other people in this thread have said similar.


----------



## Colin B (3 Mar 2014)

Sorry but traffic droid has me in fits of laughter regardless of the serious point he's trying to make and his bikes kitted out better than the millenium falcon . One thing that really confuses me and being a recent returner to cycling is that huge pole on the front ok all the other cameras have a point but why have one looking at you on a piece of plumbers pipe surely that is dangerous . I wish this bloke would come to Manchester I'd sneak into the ASL just to be red carded and him say your busted . Nice bloke ? seems it ,mad as a box of frogs ? probably but long may he keep entertaining in his own unique way


----------



## potsy (3 Mar 2014)

Colin B said:


> Sorry but traffic droid has me in fits of laughter regardless of the serious point he's trying to make and his bikes kitted out better than the millenium falcon . One thing that really confuses me and being a recent returner to cycling is that huge pole on the front ok all the other cameras have a point but why have one looking at you on a piece of plumbers pipe surely that is dangerous . I wish this bloke would come to Manchester I'd sneak into the ASL just to be red carded and him say your busted . Nice bloke ? seems it ,mad as a box of frogs ? probably but long may he keep entertaining in his own unique way


I kind of feel the same way, addictive viewing


----------



## Colin B (3 Mar 2014)

And I have to say his video titles well gas could learn a thing or two I mean when you see the title His conscience will prick him forever you just got to watch it lol


----------



## Colin B (3 Mar 2014)

Sorry gas I watch yours too


----------



## Colin B (3 Mar 2014)

Ok if I was to become manchesters version of traffic droid I could become IRON MANc (copyright 2014)


----------



## steve52 (3 Mar 2014)

Adam4868 said:


> So why did you feel the need to film someone getting a bollocking of a off duty policeman ? As i said i dont see how its anyone elses buisness.


because the cyclist behavior reflects on all of us, and because like it or not our individual behavior is part of a whole, so it is our business if we chose to know.plus its fun to watch someone get theirs lol


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Mar 2014)

steve52 said:


> because the cyclist behavior reflects on all of us, and because like it or not our individual behavior is part of a whole, so it is our business if we chose to know.plus its fun to watch someone get theirs lol


Well agree to disagree because that's not my idea of fun.


----------



## MissTillyFlop (3 Mar 2014)

I think I'm going to try pulling over cars.

Amd then when they ask why, just saying "ohhh....nothin'"


----------



## Hip Priest (4 Mar 2014)

I was always taught to be polite and co-operative with the police and it has served me well.


----------



## HLaB (13 Mar 2014)

Saw the aftermath of a cyclist pulled over by an unmarked car today. I think he gave abuse to a unmarked cop car that had cut him up but the cop said otherwise and stuck his blues and two's on. We were then treated to a half hour annimated display by the cyclist as he tried to explain his action/ the situation to the cop. I wish I'd had a video camera could have sold the footage for a fortune


----------



## lit (14 Mar 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> Which might end up with arrests for public order offences. You're in public, you can be photographed.



You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.


----------



## lit (14 Mar 2014)

HLaB said:


> Saw the aftermath of a cyclist pulled over by an unmarked car today. I think he gave abuse to a unmarked cop car that had cut him up but the cop said otherwise and stuck his blues and two's on. We were then treated to a half hour annimated display by the cyclist as he tried to explain his action/ the situation to the cop. I wish I'd had a video camera could have sold the footage for a fortune



So what you saw is a "police officer" abusing his "authority" and did nothing? Report it, if it happened as you say it happened what he did was illegal - not only in the "driving" but the power trip he went on.


----------



## wilkotom (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.


 
You're wrong 

http://www.photographymonthly.com/M...ption-Offers/Street-Photography-Peter-Jenkins

In particular the "You can't take my picture..." bit.


----------



## benb (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.



You're wrong. There can be no expectation of privacy in a public place.
If someone continued following you and taking your photo after you had asked them to desist, then you may have a case for harassment, but taking someone's photo in public without their consent is legal.


----------



## HLaB (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> So what you saw is a "police officer" abusing his "authority" and did nothing? Report it, if it happened as you say it happened what he did was illegal - not only in the "driving" but the power trip he went on.


Nope, I saw from a distance/ aftermath of a bloke pulled over I couldnt say if it was a legitimate reason or not as I never witnessed it.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.


 
If you were right you'd be able to cite which law prohibits it. There isn't one. 

public place = public face

GC


----------



## CopperBrompton (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.


Pretty much everyone will, I think, since you are. Completely.


----------



## uclown2002 (14 Mar 2014)

lit said:


> You certainly cannot, if you don't consent it is illegal. I'm sure you will or someone else will be along to tell me I am wrong.


Why would you actually post this without checking the facts?


----------



## Poacher (15 Mar 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> Why would you actually post this without checking the facts?


The same reason some drivers tell me it's illegal to ride on the road when there's a cycle farcility alongside it?


----------

