# How often do you have to adjust your chain?



## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

"Chain looks a bit loose..."

I seem to be having to re-tighten my chain every couple of months. Is that normal? I can't figure it out. I'm sure the wheel isn't shifting, so is this just wear? Surely not. I only ride about 30-50 miles/week. Surely a chain doesn't wear (or stretch?) that fast?


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## Old Plodder (21 Jan 2014)

It does sound like the wheel is moving to me also. Maybe you need serrated washers under the nuts.


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## dodgy (21 Jan 2014)

fatmac said:


> It does sound like the wheel is moving to me also. Maybe you need serrated washers under the nuts.



/crosses legs


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## screenman (21 Jan 2014)

Oops! sorry.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

User14044mountain said:


> I've never had to re-tighten my chain - when it stretches (after 2-3,000 miles) I put a new one on (with a new rear cassette/sprocket). Are you doubly sure that the rear wheel isn't moving?


Pretty much. Its nutted - not QR - and I tighten the things with a 14" adjustable, stopping just this side of stripping the threads. When I just loosened it off to tighten the chain - again - it was actually quite a struggle to loosen the things. And surely if the wheel _was_ slipping, it wouldn't stay straight in the frame? It surely wouldn't slip equally on both sides? Obviously I can't swear to it, but it just doesn't seem possible to me that those nuts have allowed that wheel to move. Then again, maybe it would make sense to at least try some serrated washers. 

As to the bike & gears, it's an old Olmo Pista track-racing frame, converted to fixed, with a 48 on the front and a 14 (I think...maybe allow +/- 1) on the back. 

I'm very interested to hear of 2,000-3,000 miles without needing adjustment. That's much more the kind of thing I was anticipating...


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## derrick (21 Jan 2014)

My Fixie seems to need tightening every now and then, as you say if the wheel was moving it would pull it to one side, can only be a bit of wear or chain stretch. i will watch this post for further developments.


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## Old Plodder (21 Jan 2014)

Do you have chain tensioners fitted (?).


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

Nope.


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## Colin S (21 Jan 2014)

How loose is the chain when you need to tighten it?
Sounds like it is "chain stretch" to me If you think the much quoted 1mm of wear is over a very small length of chain if you multiply this up to a full chain it would look very loose on a single speed / fixie 

C


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## dave r (21 Jan 2014)

I have to adjust mine about once a week this time of year, my fixed is the only bike I ride in the winter, I'm doing around 100-120 miles a week, my Pearson has track ends and I tend to pull the wheel forward, but I daren't tighten the nuts any more, I'd never get the wheel off by the roadside if I had a puncture.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

Hmmm. "the much quoted 1mm of wear"? That's a new one on me. But as for 'how loose?', I've picked up from somewhere the idea that if you grip the chain half way along its length, you should be able to flex it up, and down, by something like 2cm between the top extreme and the bottom. When it needs tightening, I'd guess it's something like twice that - enough, in any case, that it can jump off the sprocket going over a speed bump or something.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> I have to adjust mine about once a week this time of year, my fixed is the only bike I ride in the winter, I'm doing around 100-120 miles a week, my Pearson has track ends and I tend to pull the wheel forward, but I daren't tighten the nuts any more, I'd never get the wheel off by the roadside if I had a puncture.


Wow. So, every 100-120 miles. That's more often even than mine. Is that wear, or stretch, or don't know?


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## dave r (21 Jan 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Wow. So, every 100-120 miles. That's more often even than mine. Is that wear, or stretch, or don't know?



Mostly its down to me leaning hard on the pedals, have to sometimes, this is about half a mile from work on the way home and is steeper than it looks on the map http://goo.gl/maps/148BL 

I sometimes do this one on a Sunday, another good climb http://goo.gl/maps/YY8q7


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## Andrew_Culture (21 Jan 2014)

On my singlespeed I have to tighten the chain by loosening the QR then sitting on the ground behind the bike, putting my feet on the pedals and going HEAVE and then tightening the QR somehow. 

I know when it's time to tighten the chain because I start wondering why pedaling is such an effort, and it's usually because the rear wheel has shifted against the rear stays


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## colly (21 Jan 2014)

I bought a new chain shortly before Christmas. I use a half link and they, so I'm told, are a little more prone to stretch. I probably got 1100 miles out of the old one. Maybe. 
I read that between the rear sprocket and the chainwheel a half inch of movement up and down was correctly tensioned. 
It's well dodgy having your chain unship on a fixed.


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## dave r (21 Jan 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> On my singlespeed I have to tighten the chain by loosening the QR then sitting on the ground behind the bike, putting my feet on the pedals and going HEAVE and then tightening the QR somehow.
> 
> I know when it's time to tighten the chain because I start wondering why pedaling is such an effort, and it's usually because the rear wheel has shifted against the rear stays



I don't let it get that bad, I can normally tell when the wheel has shifted, the bike tends to be reluctant to travel in a straight line.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> Mostly its down to me leaning hard on the pedals, have to sometimes, this is about half a mile from work on the way home and is steeper than it looks on the map http://goo.gl/maps/148BL
> 
> I sometimes do this one on a Sunday, another good climb http://goo.gl/maps/YY8q7


Hmmm. Snap. This every day. And back, from t'other side:


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## dave r (21 Jan 2014)

colly said:


> I bought a new chain shortly before Christmas. I use a half link and they, so I'm told, are a little more prone to stretch. I probably got 1100 miles out of the old one. Maybe.
> I read that between the rear sprocket and the chainwheel a half inch of movement up and down was correctly tensioned.
> It's well dodgy having your chain unship on a fixed.



I've yet to unship a chain on a fixed, I've broken one, most entertaining and I wasn't going fast, but I've not unshiped one, I've had my Pearson just over 6 years and about 20000 miles and I was on fixed in the late 1980's early 1990's.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Jan 2014)

It happens to me every couple of months. That's what alerts me to the fact that my chain's a bit loose...

(Maybe if I tightened every 100-120 miles I wouldn't have a problem. But I'm still a bit thrown by the idea that a chain can either stretch or wear that much that quickly. Assuming (as I am) that the wheel _isn't_ shifting.


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## Andrew_Culture (21 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> I don't let it get that bad, I can normally tell when the wheel has shifted, the bike tends to be reluctant to travel in a straight line.



My frame is a bit bent so it's always a bit like that


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## totallyfixed (21 Jan 2014)

Before you tighten a chain on a fixed rotate the cranks while tapping the chain with a spanner midway between chain ring and sprocket, at the tightest point [chain rings are not by and large, perfectly round], stop, undo the nuts, stand behind the wheel and pull back until there is only a small amount of play up and down, for me usually about 1cm either way and re-tighten..
My chain is re-tensioned every 2 to 3 weeks sometimes more sometimes less depending on the power put through the cranks = hills. I change the chain every 1000 - 1500 miles, again depending on the type of miles and time of year.
Apologies to those for whom this was egg sucking.


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## dave r (22 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> Before you tighten a chain on a fixed rotate the cranks while tapping the chain with a spanner midway between chain ring and sprocket, at the tightest point [chain rings are not by and large, perfectly round], stop, undo the nuts, stand behind the wheel and pull back until there is only a small amount of play up and down, for me usually about 1cm either way and re-tighten..
> My chain is re-tensioned every 2 to 3 weeks sometimes more sometimes less depending on the power put through the cranks = hills. I change the chain every 1000 - 1500 miles, again depending on the type of miles and time of year.
> Apologies to those for whom this was egg sucking.



I normally turn the cranks checking the chain every quarter of a turn.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> Before you tighten a chain on a fixed rotate the cranks while tapping the chain with a spanner midway between chain ring and sprocket, at the tightest point [chain rings are not by and large, perfectly round], stop, undo the nuts, stand behind the wheel and pull back until there is only a small amount of play up and down, for me usually about 1cm either way and re-tighten..
> My chain is re-tensioned every 2 to 3 weeks sometimes more sometimes less depending on the power put through the cranks = hills. I change the chain every 1000 - 1500 miles, again depending on the type of miles and time of year.
> Apologies to those for whom this was egg sucking.


Thanks. Between this and the daily hill-climbs, sounds like my experience is pretty much in line with expectations. I'll just have to resign myself to more frequent tightenings.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2014)

KMC chains seem less prone to need adjusting (510HX). I found Izzumi chains needed doing very often. Probably adjust mine maybe once a month.


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## RedRider (22 Jan 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Thanks. Between this and the daily hill-climbs, sounds like my experience is pretty much in line with expectations. I'll just have to resign myself to more frequent tightenings.


Aye, assuming a rough location from your posts in the 'working horse' thread you must be going up and down from the moment you leave your house. 
My perception is chains need adjusting more in the early weeks of their lives but not sure whether this tallies with others' experience.


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## dave r (22 Jan 2014)

fossyant said:


> KMC chains seem less prone to need adjusting (510HX). I found Izzumi chains needed doing very often. Probably adjust mine maybe once a month.



I usually buy the cheapy from the LBS near work, I normally get about twelve months from a chain so I tend to try and spend as little as possible on them, I've tried more expensive chains but found they didn't last any longer.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2014)

I run mine for 12 months then change chain and sprocket.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Jan 2014)

fossyant said:


> I run mine for 12 months then change chain and sprocket.


Do you change because they're worn out, or because 'their time's up'? Must admit I seldom check chains and I must have been riding the same sprocket for five years+ without giving it a second thought.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Do you change because they're worn out, or because 'their time's up'? Must admit I seldom check chains and I must have been riding the same sprocket for five years+ without giving it a second thought.



I just decide to change. Don't bother with the chain tool on the fixed. Have noticed that over a year of commuting, the rear sprocket won't accept a new chain, so do both for less than £30

It's just good practice. It's not exactly expensive either. I was changing chains twice and one sprocket per year when using Izumi, but KMC chains are great and dead cheap.


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## totallyfixed (22 Jan 2014)

It's fine to keep the same sprocket and chain for longer than normal periods however, the danger is in wearing the chainring. Having said that, the cost of a new chainring, chain and sprocket once per year or even longer depending of course on your mileage, probably compares favourably with changing the chain 4 or 5 times and the sprocket a couple of times in the same period



.
Edit, fossy beat me to it.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> It's fine to keep the same sprocket and chain for longer than normal periods however, the danger is in wearing the chainring. Having said that, the cost of a new chainring, chain and sprocket once per year or even longer depending of course on your mileage, probably compares favourably with changing the chain 4 or 5 times and the sprocket a couple of times in the same period
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does a worn chain inflict more wear on the chainring than a new one? (I must check mine tomorrow...haven't done...um, ever, come to think of it...)


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## totallyfixed (22 Jan 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Does a worn chain inflict more wear on the chainring than a new one? (I must check mine tomorrow...haven't done...um, ever, come to think of it...)


Chainrings are harder than cassettes and sprockets but like anything you should keep an eye on them, yes a well worn chain if left on for too long will wear a chainring so in profile it looks like a shark's fin. A new chain put on a worn chain ring will not seat properly with obvious consequences.


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## fossyant (22 Jan 2014)

As said above, because the chainring is much larger, the wear is much less, but a worn chain will increase wear. Chainrings, despite being aluminium, still wear better than a steel sprocket as there is much less mechanical stress going to it.

I only changed my Chainrings on my fixed to gain an Extra two teeth or a couple of gear inches.


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## totallyfixed (23 Jan 2014)

42,000 miles on the original chainring and still looking good, although I do have my eye on a new steel frame 
[with the approval of the boss].


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## Christopher (23 Jan 2014)

I put on a Condor 1/8" stainless steel sprocket to replace a 3/16" Dura-Ace. The new sprocket is wearing away but more slowly than the DA one did. Generally I replace the rear sprocket when the teeth start to look like inverted 'T's rather than '/\'s. By the way the front ring was so worn I could feel the chain rubbing on it as i rode - similar to the grinding-metal feel you get when cross-chaining on a geared bike.

Personally i have never bothered doing the tapping thing with the front ring, or ensured an absolutely perfect chainline. Got both close enough and in thousands of miles of riding fixed I have never unshipped the chain.


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## swee'pea99 (23 Jan 2014)

Christopher said:


> I put on a Condor 1/8" stainless steel sprocket to replace a 3/16" Dura-Ace. The new sprocket is wearing away but more slowly than the DA one did. Generally I replace the rear sprocket when the teeth start to look like inverted 'T's rather than '/\'s. By the way the front ring was so worn I could feel the chain rubbing on it as i rode - similar to the grinding-metal feel you get when cross-chaining on a geared bike.
> 
> Personally i have never bothered doing the tapping thing with the front ring, or ensured an absolutely perfect chainline. Got both close enough and in thousands of miles of riding fixed I have never unshipped the chain.


And how often would you say you adjust the tension?


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## Rob3rt (23 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> 42,000 miles on the original chainring and still looking good, although *I do have my eye on a new steel frame
> [with the approval of the boss]*.



Sorry those funds have been earmarked for a saddle that weighs 3 grams!


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## mangid (23 Jan 2014)

Only time I adjust the tension is after a puncture :-(


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## dave r (23 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> 42,000 miles on the original chainring and still looking good, although I do have my eye on a new steel frame
> [with the approval of the boss].



Yes I have my eye on a new steel frameset for a fixed build but I'm busy with other things and can't fund it, I'm currently looking at the Surly Crosscheck

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frame...rly-cross-check-frameset-hospital-green-p1342


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## totallyfixed (24 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> Yes I have my eye on a new steel frameset for a fixed build but I'm busy with other things and can't fund it, I'm currently looking at the Surly Crosscheck
> 
> http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frame...rly-cross-check-frameset-hospital-green-p1342


Like how they give the weight of the frame based on the smallest possible adult one I reckon you could find. Still, it's steel and has a choice of colours [do you get pi55ed off when the US spell checker tells you colour should be color?]. I digress, I am looking towards the Pearson steel because the angles are the same as the one we ride.


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## totallyfixed (24 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Sorry those funds have been earmarked for a saddle that weighs 3 grams!


I can handle that Rob, it's the new TT bike [I also now need one having sold one last year] and a pair of climbing wheels that are needed. Just did a quick mental calculation and I may have to remain seated for a little while longer.


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## swee'pea99 (24 Jan 2014)

FWIW, I just checked (never having done so before) and both chainwheel and sprocket look fine - no shark's tooth at all, as far as I can see - but when I use the old steel rule to check the chain, I find that at the 12" mark, it's out by about 3/32" - sort of midway between 1/16th and 1/8th. My gut feeling is, from the posts on this thread, that adjustment intervals are proportional to hill-climbing. Living in a land of hills, I'm just going to have to get used to frequent tightenings.


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## dave r (24 Jan 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> Like how they give the weight of the frame based on the smallest possible adult one I reckon you could find. Still, it's steel and has a choice of colours [do you get pi55ed off when the US spell checker tells you colour should be color?]. I digress, I am looking towards the Pearson steel because the angles are the same as the one we ride.



I like the Pearsons, shame about the silly names, it looks like the steel one is any colour you like as long as its black, though they will I suspect do a custom colour if asked, I'm not to worried about the weight on the Surly, I recon if I buy it I'll have to go small on it, my Pearson's a 54 but the Surly's longer in the top tube and I recon I'll need a 50, lots of seat tube on display.


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## MrGrumpy (1 Feb 2014)

dave r said:


> I have to adjust mine about once a week this time of year, my fixed is the only bike I ride in the winter, I'm doing around 100-120 miles a week, my Pearson has track ends and I tend to pull the wheel forward, but I daren't tighten the nuts any more, I'd never get the wheel off by the roadside if I had a puncture.



ditto here, chain tensioned nearly every week, new sprocket was fitted in the autumn and whilst it looks good, the front chain ring is now looking all very pointy and the the noise is more apparent. Hoping to keep it altogether to the end of this month, then it will be new chain, sprocket maybe and front chain ring. Done a fair few miles but I am hard on my bikes.

Oh and I`ve unshipped a few times, scary, and I was not going slow!


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## dave r (1 Feb 2014)

MrGrumpy said:


> ditto here, chain tensioned nearly every week, new sprocket was fitted in the autumn and whilst it looks good, the front chain ring is now looking all very pointy and the the noise is more apparent. Hoping to keep it altogether to the end of this month, then it will be new chain, sprocket maybe and front chain ring. Done a fair few miles but I am hard on my bikes.
> 
> Oh and I`ve unshipped a few times, scary, and I was not going slow!



I've never unshipped a chain, I've broken one though, how's your chainline? You shouldn't be unshipping on a regular basis.


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2014)

Interesting stuff, I have to tighten my chain often; I'd put it down to it being a cheap fixie but maybe its not. Although I've had brand new, unworn chains unship


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## totallyfixed (1 Feb 2014)

As per Dave, never unshipped a chain, nor dr_pink and we run 3/32, not to mention same chainring now for almost 43,000 miles.


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## zigzag (1 Feb 2014)

answering to the op, yes, the chain wears pretty quickly therefore gets slack. i have to tension the chain every 150-200km (depending on the weather) and i use a chain tug so the axle doesn't move in dropouts at all. my derailleur equipped bike's drivetrain in comparison can be neglected for thousands of kilometers and work fine.
when i got back to riding single speed a year ago i forgot about the constant adjustments it requires; unshipped and broke the chain, bent the alloy hub axle.. not good!! don't buy into stories that single gear bikes are virtually maintenance free!






^^ it was a long scoot home after this..


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## MrGrumpy (2 Feb 2014)

dave r said:


> I've never unshipped a chain, I've broken one though, how's your chainline? You shouldn't be unshipping on a regular basis.




I don`t regularly, but I have forgotten to tension said chain and that is when I can have an issue. However I am hard on chains and sprockets so get relatively short life out of some combinations. I just put it down to my awesome Chris Hoy like legs  and mega wattage output on the sprints into work


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (2 Feb 2014)

Un shipping regularly!! It's a Russian roulette game that sweatpea and just a matter of time before yr face and teeth pay the price.

If that was happening to me I'd check the chain alignment, if that was ok I'd check the chain tension through out the spin I.e., every quarter turn and err on the side of caution and push it to the max tightness in the one tight spot there always seems to be.

First upgrade would be chain tugs, costs penny's and worth their weight in gold. Then I'd upgrade my chain ring (probably chainset) to a good quality one that is unlikely to flex.

If it was still happening I'd probably sell the frame because it could be that the chain stays are not strong enough and flexing under power, that said I'd probably run 3/32 8 speed chain with beveled side plates which will accept the chain line being out - if lance Armstrong can power up mountains on 3/32 then I don't think it'll be an issue for undoped mere mortals.

Edit: sprockets wear out quicker simply because they pass the chain more, in other words they spin 2 to times more than a chain ring. This is why even steel sprockets wear quicker than alloy chain rings.


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## swee'pea99 (2 Feb 2014)

Thanks for that, but I think for starters I'm just going to try being a bit more disciplined about checking & tightening. If that doesn't sort it, I'll look into more radical action.


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## rb58 (20 Feb 2014)

Is there any form of tug that will work on forward opening horizontal drop outs (i.e. my 1950's conversion)? I seem to have to tighten my chain every week (so every 150 miles or so).


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## tyred (11 Mar 2014)

rb58 said:


> Is there any form of tug that will work on forward opening horizontal drop outs (i.e. my 1950's conversion)? I seem to have to tighten my chain every week (so every 150 miles or so).



If your wheel is sliding forward, there are tugs available if you look hard enough but they shouldn't be necessary.

Fit serrated washers to grip the drop outs, or use copper washers which will "squish" to suit and hold the wheel in place. Most commercially available copper washers are small and fine to be used as seals on diesel fuel systems or hydraulic equipment but drilling a 10mm hole in a 2p coin is a perfectly acceptable substitute if you can't find a source of full sized copper washers.


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## Smurfy (12 Mar 2014)

Tupenny pieces aren't copper alloy anymore. They haven't been for sometime, and I suspect if they were, the value of the coinage as scrap might exceed the face value, as copper prices have increased a lot in recent years. All modern 2ps and 1ps are copper plated steel. If you find an old 2p it will be easy to spot, they're quite soft compared to a modern steel 2p, and unless it's been polished it will by now be very, very dull.


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