# What is a BSO?



## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

I'm posting in the beginners section despite having ridden and maintained bikes for about 40 years because it seems modern lingo is new and unknown to me. 

I keep encountering the term BSO. The context around it usually seems to imply something derogatory. But I genuinely don't know what it means. Who can enlighten me?


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## matiz (21 Nov 2018)

Bicycle shaped object e.g poor quality .


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## Racing roadkill (21 Nov 2018)

Anything like this.


https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/hybrid-bikes/apollo-transfer-mens-hybrid-bike-18-21-frames

A B.S.O. or Bicycle shaped object.


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## Bodhbh (21 Nov 2018)

It generally refers to something like a 50 quid full susser from Tescos.


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

So who decides what is a BSO and what is not?


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## Katherine (21 Nov 2018)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/forum-cycling-acronyms.1590/

I had to make good use of this thread when I first joined the forum!


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## Cycleops (21 Nov 2018)

This is good example. Usually weigh a ton and come equipped with poor quality components.
BSO? Usually decided by posters on here.


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## DCLane (21 Nov 2018)

@User76022 Try this rule of thumb:

"Did it cost less than my weekly food shop?": In the 'Corona' case below it came free and unused. It was even free with beer for the original owner.

"Are the components of basic standard?": Corona bike was abysmal before use, let alone after. The brakes wouldn't work / stop binding, the wheels wouldn't true and the gear shifter only vaguely worked. Passes @Cycleops BSO test

"Does it have 'full suspension' when only rolling to the pub and back?": Absolutely. Although none of it _actually_ worked. Passes @Bodhbh BSO test

"Would I get more than £20 re-selling it?": Actually I did. I got £23 from someone who wanted it for a laugh at a party.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Nov 2018)

Is that not Wiggos TDF winning bike then? We all know yellow bikes go faster.


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## Phaeton (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> So who decides what is a BSO and what is not?


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## Drago (21 Nov 2018)

Boardmans Special Orifice - A derogatory term used to describe the source from which the self style cycling pundit obtains his views.


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## Jody (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> So who decides what is a BSO and what is not?



Who decides if a young lad is a chav or not? Or a young lad in a car is a boy racer or not?

Its just a term banded about for a cheap bike. No need to get caught up with the technicalities as its open to interpretation.


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

Terms like BSO when used in the context they often are, are really quite patronising. 

BSO implies a 'my bike is better than your bike' or 'my cycling is more valid than your cycling' attitude. 

If I adopt the term BSO, then by the definitions shared here, my kids both ride BSO s. Yet they both love their BSOs. They both pedal good distances on them, practice road skills on them, have a continually developing awareness of safety considerations through their use, and are both learning basic maintenance skills. Both ride cheap appollo bikes. 

Are they not yet cyclists? 

But where is the threshold. My bike was a little bit more expensive because I ride more. I paid 260 quid for my Rockrider 520 mountain bike. Is that a BSO? In the 6 months I've had it, since replacing its 12 year old predecessor, I've rode over 1000 miles so far on it.


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## Jody (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Terms like BSO when used in the context they often are, are really quite patronising.
> 
> BSO implies a 'my bike is better than your bike' or 'my cycling is more valid than your cycling' attitude.



You're over thinking this one Anf. It doesn't imply my bike is better than yours or your cycling is more valid. Its just a term for a cheap bike.


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## beepbeep (21 Nov 2018)

big sweaty orifice ??

I'll get my coat .


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## Threevok (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Terms like BSO when used in the context they often are, are really quite patronising.
> 
> BSO implies a 'my bike is better than your bike' or 'my cycling is more valid than your cycling' attitude.
> 
> ...



A Rockrider is not a BSO


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> If it cost less than you paid for your bike it's probably a BSO, and you get to sneer at it.
> 
> In the other hand, if it cost more than you paid, you get to tut and roll your eyes and say "all the gear and no idea".


Best answer yet lol


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## PaulSB (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Terms like BSO when used in the context they often are, are really quite patronising.
> 
> BSO implies a 'my bike is better than your bike' or 'my cycling is more valid than your cycling' attitude.
> 
> ...



Good Grief! It's a throwaway remark. Might be applied to a youth dressed entirely in black, no lights, weaving on/off pavements on dark, wet November night. He'd be riding a BSO

Don't analyse stuff too much....


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## youngoldbloke (21 Nov 2018)

PaulSB said:


> Good Grief! It's a throwaway remark. Might be applied to a youth dressed entirely in black, no lights, weaving on/off pavements on dark, wet November night. He'd be riding a BSO
> 
> Don't analyse stuff too much....


- probably not a BSO, probably just nicked something much expensive …….


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## PaulSB (21 Nov 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> - probably not a BSO, probably just nicked something much expensive …….


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## Randomnerd (21 Nov 2018)

Whatever you do @User76022 dont mention helmets, or you will really disappear up your own fundament. You gotta know when to Google, mate.


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## Jody (21 Nov 2018)

woodenspoons said:


> Whatever you do @User76022 dont mention helmets,


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

woodenspoons said:


> Whatever you do @User76022 dont mention helmets, or you will really disappear up your own fundament. You gotta know when to Google, mate.


I did once. Got censored. I didn't realise it was a controversial subject.


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## Randomnerd (21 Nov 2018)

Nice one @Jody.  I proper like those wasp nest helmets, but they’re too flyaway for me, if I don’t do the chinstrap up properly. And we all know important that is. Bzzzzz


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## sheddy (21 Nov 2018)

A BSO might get used until the 1st puncture, but not after.


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## Threevok (21 Nov 2018)

For me a BSO is a bike that you buy, dislike, try to sell, then try to give away, then leave out for the scrappy


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## mustang1 (21 Nov 2018)

It's a bit like a PSO but for bikes. 

What's a PSO then? Phone Shaped object .Pretty much anything that isn't an iPhone is total rubbish .


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## mustang1 (21 Nov 2018)

mustang1 said:


> It's a bit like a PSO but for bikes.
> 
> What's a PSO then? Phone Shaped object .Pretty much anything that isn't an iPhone is total rubbish .



Edit: let's continue this theme .

CSO: car shaped object. Anything that's not a BMW, mercedes, or Porsche. Everything else is rubbish .

How about hifi shaped object? The audiophiles slam Bose but it does sound good even if they use equalisers to do so .


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

OK. Just having a bit of fun with this now.

Can a BSO become a bike? If so how? 

Can a bike become a BSO? 

If a bike was once good, but is now showing serious signs of age, like worn out bearings and stretched cables and the most boney seat, and maybe a slight buckle in the wheels, and the rear derailleur is bent, is it still a bike or has it become a BSO? 

Finally, if a bike or a BSO were to be carelessly parked in the path of a steam roller for example, would it end up being a BSO even if no longer bike shaped?


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## roadrash (21 Nov 2018)

yes.....errr no ….or err maybe......I think


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## ianrauk (21 Nov 2018)

It's quite simple. A BSO is a cheap piece of crap bike made with cheese components bought from a supermarket or similar.


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## Deleted member 23692 (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Terms like BSO when used in the context they often are, are really quite patronising.
> 
> BSO implies a 'my bike is better than your bike' or 'my cycling is more valid than your cycling' attitude.


 Defo. It's elisitist crap and oft used by those who will maintain that cycling isn't snob filled and anything to that gets folks on a bike can only be a good thing.

I see that cheap full suss bikes are mentioned in several posts. Granted they are cheap and built to a price point but just cbecause it's cheap doesn't mean it's useless.....


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPisv3x38Q


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Nov 2018)

A free BSO mtn bike goes off road. The brakes fall off after 20 yards, the chain splits after 50 yards, the handlebars go 90 degrees after 100, the back wheel buckles after 200, the wheels collapse and the rider is thrown off after 300.


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> A free BSO mtn bike goes off road. The brakes fall off after 20 yards, the chain splits after 50 yards, the handlebars go 90 degrees after 100, the back wheel buckles after 200, the wheels collapse and the rider is thrown off after 300.


He's a skilled rider then. He's managed 200 yards with handlebars bent, and 100 with buckled wheels. Well done that rider.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2018)

Jody said:


> You're over thinking this one Anf. It doesn't imply my bike is better than yours or your cycling is more valid. Its just a term for a cheap bike.


More specifically, one that doesn't work right and no amount of fettling will make it work right for more than a few hours because of some design flaw or cheap parts.



beepbeep said:


> big sweaty orifice ??
> 
> I'll get my coat .


Why would you need a coat up there? Won't it be rather warm?


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

mjr said:


> one that doesn't work right and no amount of fettling will make it work right for more than a few hours because of some design flaw


This makes perfect sense. I could comfortably accept terms with such a clear definition. 

This is like the bikes a friend of mine used to buy. Roughly every 3 months he'd pay around 90 quid for a brand new full suspension mountain bike to replace the previous one that had broke. Thing is, he didn't even make them earn their 3 months of life. He only used them for tootling about town.


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## Bodhbh (21 Nov 2018)

Ffoeg said:


> Defo. It's elisitist crap and oft used by those who will maintain that cycling isn't snob filled and anything to that gets folks on a bike can only be a good thing.
> 
> I see that cheap full suss bikes are mentioned in several posts. Granted they are cheap and built to a price point but just cbecause it's cheap doesn't mean it's useless.....



That video proves the rider skill >>>> the bike, but it still comes off like a piece of crap. I'm 2/3rds thru and already there's play in the back end, the brakes don't work and rear mech has given up. But it's a good watch and I would be off at the first berm whatever I was riding.

/edit now it's "this suck's so much, I love it"


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## User76022 (21 Nov 2018)

Bodhbh said:


> That video proves the rider skill >>>> the bike, but it still comes off like a piece of crap. I'm 2/3rds thru and already there's play in the back end, the brakes don't work and rear mech has given up. But it's a good watch and I would be off at the first berm whatever I was riding.
> 
> /edit now it's "this suck's so much, I love it"


Bear in mind that often the description of the bike would give some advice about what the bike is designed to be suitable for. 

My 260 quid Rockrider has mention in its description that its probably not suitable for downhill racing or some such.


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## Threevok (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Bear in mind that often the description of the bike would give some advice about what the bike is designed to be suitable for.
> 
> My 260 quid Rockrider has mention in its description that its probably not suitable for downhill racing or some such.



That said, I have owned several makes of suspension forks that had a sticker on them saying not for off road use

I always found that amusing


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## Edwardoka (21 Nov 2018)

If the best thing you can say about a bike is that is "Shimano-geared", it's a BSO. If it cost £60 and came from Tesco, it's a BSO.
In the same way that cheap laptops will be sold to non-tech people because it has an Intel processor. Congratulations, so does a PC from 1978.
The entry-level hardtail that got me into cycling was not a BSO when I got it but by the end of its life it had definitely turned into one.
The Tesco jobby I borrowed while my hardtail was getting serviced lasted less than a single day's commute before the pedal sheared off. I was strong then, but not that strong.


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## Slioch (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> Can a BSO become a bike? If so how?



I've been cycling all my life, but until a few year ago I only had 2 bikes - a tourer and a mountain bike.
When I hit 50, I decided to get myself a "racing" bike so I could use cycling for fitness as well as just for fun. Not being sure whether I would like this kind of bike, I bought a Carrera Virtuoso from Halfords for £250, rather than splashing out megabucks on a "fancy" bike. The components were pretty basic, and I guess some would regard this as being a BSO.
However, I really liked riding a "racing" bike, so over time I have upgraded the wheels and tyres to something lighter, and fitted Tiagra groupset throughout.
This transformed the bike from being heavy and agricultural to being a really decent ride. I now also own a fancy carbon "racing" bike but, if I'm brutally honest with myself, my favourite bike to ride is the Carrera because it just "feels right".
I guess my point here is that if a BSO has a decent frame then, matched with the right components, it can be transformed.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> If the best thing you can say about a bike is that is "Shimano-geared", it's a BSO. If it cost £60 and came from Tesco, it's a BSO.
> In the same way that cheap laptops will be sold to non-tech people because it has an Intel processor. Congratulations, so does a PC from 1978.
> The entry-level hardtail that got me into cycling was not a BSO when I got it but by the end of its life it had definitely turned into one.
> The Tesco jobby I borrowed while my hardtail was getting serviced lasted less than a single day's commute before the pedal sheared off. I was strong then, but not that strong.



Only if it is fake, the PC was launched in 1981.


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## Milzy (21 Nov 2018)

I may add I have mountain bike friends who buy £5000 mountain bikes to take part in amateur Enduro events. 
They get panned by kids on £999 Bossnuts from GoOutdoors. Bike snobs is one thing but it’s even worse when they don’t have the fitness & talent to ride them well.


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## mustang1 (21 Nov 2018)

User76022 said:


> OK. Just having a bit of fun with this now.
> 
> Can a BSO become a bike? If so how?
> 
> ...



Good point .Similarly what if one buys a good bike and then as parts wear out, then downgrade parts to make it a bso? Or, once you buy a good game, it could never become a BSO?


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## Drago (21 Nov 2018)

Brexit Special Outers. They're a group of Brexireers who roam the country in packs outing people who they think may be gay. Being short of funding the group ride cheap machines from the likes of Apollo, Sports Direct or Boardman, and the group name of BSO has come to mean the very bikes themselves. (Worthy of the factoid thread, eh?)


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## Bodhbh (21 Nov 2018)

Milzy said:


> I may add I have mountain bike friends who buy £5000 mountain bikes to take part in amateur Enduro events.
> They get panned by kids on £999 Bossnuts from GoOutdoors. Bike snobs is one thing but it’s even worse when they don’t have the fitness & talent to ride them well.



What would happen if the snobs where on £500 bikes and the kids were on £99 ones? Or £250 bikes and the kids are on £50 ones? At some point when you buy cheap it will start to hurt.


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## Edwardoka (22 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Only if it is fake, the PC was launched in 1981.


Curses, foiled. I should have made a distinction between personal computer and IBM PC.
The IBM PC was indeed launched in 1981, but Intel's 8086 processor was launched in 1978.


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## MichaelW2 (22 Nov 2018)

The key points of a BSO are not just cheapness but unsuitability for even normal everyday riding.
Low end full suspension on a £99 bike is unsuitable for any purpose. Using steel but in fat tube profiles to mimic aluminium is a typical BSO ploy, adding excess weight for no gain 
The Apollo non suspension bike shown early in this thread is not necessarily a BSO. Non sus bikes would need grossly misaligned frame and forks to qualify for BSO status.
Low end Shimano components are remarkable effective and durable. No name components on BSOs are uually made of very soft, bendy metal and less effective and easier to mash up during maintenance.
The boundary between a cheap but usable bike and a BSO can be drawn if you ignore bike snobbery and just look at basic performance and durability.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Nov 2018)

ianrauk said:


> It's quite simple. A BSO is a cheap piece of crap bike made with cheese components bought from a supermarket or similar.



This really gets to the bottom of it. A BSO is something that was already a piece of junk at the point at which it left the factory gate, and is incapable of ever being a reliable bike even with proper maintenance.
The problem is the term BSO is widely misused, often deliberately, to merely describe cheap bikes - even if that cheap bike is fully functional and works reliably. A heavy MTB or Hybrid with all-steel components might legitimately be called a tank, but just because a cycling snob on a £5k carbon wouldn't touch it with a bargepole doesn't automatically make it a BSO.. 
I've got some cheap bikes (well actually all my bikes were cheap but some were quite pricey when new), but I don't consider them BSO's. Even my 90's Apollo MTB pulled out of a builders skip isn't a BSO. It works exactly as it should and I've covered hundreds of miles on it as a local hack. A true BSO will get binned before it's factory-fitted set of tyres have worn out.


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## smutchin (22 Nov 2018)

I wholly agree with the last two posts. The term “bike-shaped object” is pretty self-explanatory really - it describes an object that superficially resembles a bike but doesn’t function adequately as one.

Price is not the determining factor.

I have a £40 Sterling House job in the garage that came free with a washing machine some years ago. It has never been truly rideable, but I am trying to get it to a useable state to donate to a friend who will keep it in her static caravan for short errands while on holiday. It should be just about good enough for that use but it is pretty much the definition of a BSO.


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## smutchin (22 Nov 2018)

Milzy said:


> Bike snobs is one thing but it’s even worse when they don’t have the fitness & talent to ride them well.



This kind of snobbery where people are deemed not worthy of the bikes they ride is just as bad.


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## Threevok (22 Nov 2018)

Bodhbh said:


> What would happen if the snobs where on £500 bikes and the kids were on £99 ones? Or £250 bikes and the kids are on £50 ones? At some point when you buy cheap it will start to hurt.



I once owned a Promax Aggressor - that hurt quite a lot


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## DCBassman (22 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> If it cost less than you paid for your bike it's probably a BSO, and you get to sneer at it.
> 
> In the other hand, if it cost more than you paid, you get to tut and roll your eyes and say "all the gear and no idea".


Great answer!
However, my once-upon-a-time-quite-upmarket Scott cost me nada. So, ist ein BSO, nein?


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## beepbeep (22 Nov 2018)

so my tricked out Raleigh Lizard mtb would be ok for a coast to coast next year ????


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## Threevok (22 Nov 2018)

beepbeep said:


> so my tricked out Raleigh Lizard mtb would be ok for a coast to coast next year ????



Depends on how "tricked out" it is

If by tricked out you mean upgraded wheels and drive componets then - yes

If you mean coloured brake cable outers and padded seat cover, then - not so much


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Curses, foiled. I should have made a distinction between personal computer and IBM PC.
> The IBM PC was indeed launched in 1981, but Intel's 8086 processor was launched in 1978.



Inded but computers such as the ZX80 used the Z80 chip which was not made by Intel. The Tandy TRS-80 launched in 1977 also used the z80 chip, made by Zilogs. In the UK market I am not sure home computers used much of Intel. I remember writing assembler programs on the TRS-80 back in the day. The later BBC Micro used the Acorn 6502 Risc chip, and I remember writing RISC assembler on those in the early 80's. Acorn of course turned in ARM the designer of most of the chips used in modern smart phones. Dragon computers used a Motorola CPU, as did the Amiga.


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## mjr (22 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> The later BBC Micro used the Acorn 6502 Risc chip, and I remember writing RISC assembler on those in the early 80's. Acorn of course turned in ARM the designer of most of the chips used in modern smart phones.


Oooh I'm not sure you remembered that right. The BBC's 6502A was by MOS Technology (later part of Commodore - but the BBC Model B+ switched to Rockwell's 6512A and the second processor extension used a WD 65C02 - yay, compatibility!). The "RISC chip" you're thinking of was probably the ARM chip in the BBC Archimedes (later Acorn Archimedes).

Anyway, the first "personal computer" with "an Intel processor" was arguably 1973's Micral N, based around the Intel 8008, so I expect there were some of some sort made in 1978... but not as many as BSOs, probably!


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

mjr said:


> Oooh I'm not sure you remembered that right. The BBC's 6502A was by MOS Technology (later part of Commodore - but the BBC Model B+ switched to Rockwell's 6512A and the second processor extension used a WD 65C02 - yay, compatibility!). The "RISC chip" you're thinking of was probably the ARM chip in the BBC Archimedes (later Acorn Archimedes).
> 
> Anyway, the first "personal computer" with "an Intel processor" was arguably 1973's Micral N, based around the Intel 8008, so I expect there were some of some sort made in 1978... but not as many as BSOs, probably!



You are right it some time since I wrote 6502 interrupt code etc.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2018)

Programmed with punch cards. Wow that Micral truly does represent an early edition of personal!


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## Elybazza61 (22 Nov 2018)

If you worked in a bike shop you would defo know what a BSO means


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## Edwardoka (23 Nov 2018)

I seem to have a most uncanny knack for derailing threads with a slightest touch.
To quote Terry Pratchett, my innocuous comment about the Intel 8086 has had the same general effect as a steel bar dropped into the bearings of a 3,000 rpm, 660 megawatt steam turbine


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## tamiya (23 Nov 2018)

My Apple ][ ran both a 6502 and a Z80 on a CP/M card. 



Elybazza61 said:


> If you worked in a bike shop you would defo know what a BSO means



LBS vs BSO! 

General RoT (rule of thumb)... BSO would have RRP $99
vs LBS's menu of 
Safety Check $60
Annual Grease & Gears/Brakes Tune $80-125
Full Overhaul Rebuild $180-250

A$... afaik new bikes @ LBS start at about $400ish


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## SkipdiverJohn (23 Nov 2018)

beepbeep said:


> so my tricked out Raleigh Lizard mtb would be ok for a coast to coast next year ????



A Raleigh Lizard might be a low-end, heavy steel MTB, but it's still a reasonable quality bike all said and done. Get rid of the knobbly tyres and I see no reason why you couldn't ride a long distance on it so long as speed isn't your main goal. Don't confuse weight or original price with quality. There were plenty of high quality hefty bikes made at one time, Raleigh Superbe and Pashley roadsters immediately come to mind. Light weight just gives you marginally reduced effort, often at the expense of an increase in fragility and reduced ability to use a bike in a carefree and casual manner without worrying about possible damage or financial loss.
I'm in the process of upgrading my pub bike from rigid MTB to a 1992-ish Raleigh Pioneer I'm putting together from donor parts. It's got a hi-tensile steel frame, steel wheels, and just six gears. Yes, it's low-end and it's fairly heavy. Financially it's near-worthless. Any bike thief would have to be pretty hard-up to want to take it. But it will never be a BSO because it has components on it of a sufficient quality to be reliable and maintainable.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

tamiya said:


> My Apple ][ ran both a 6502 and a Z80 on a CP/M card.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Who nicked the mouse off Rank Xerox


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## bigjim (24 Nov 2018)

Edward Enfield rode a loaded Raleigh Pioneer in his book "Downhill all the way". One end of France to the other. Didn't seem to have any problems.
I paid Bolton cycles £60 for a new MTB a few years ago. My youngest son used it for two years commuting to work. On road and off in all weathers. Plus weekend rides hammering it off road. He never washed it and I don't think it saw much care. Only replaced the brake blocks. When he had finished with it it was in a sorry state , but could still be made into a serviceable bike.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Nov 2018)

bigjim said:


> Edward Enfield rode a loaded Raleigh Pioneer in his book "Downhill all the way". One end of France to the other. Didn't seem to have any problems.
> I paid Bolton cycles £60 for a new MTB a few years ago. My youngest son used it for two years commuting to work. On road and off in all weathers. Plus weekend rides hammering it off road. He never washed it and I don't think it saw much care. Only replaced the brake blocks. When he had finished with it it was in a sorry state , but could still be made into a serviceable bike.



I'd happily go any distance on a reasonably well maintained Pioneer in complete confidence that it would get me to my destination. The only reason I won't ride my decent one anywhere dodgy is purely down to the risk of theft or malicious damage whilst unattended. It isn't especially valuable in cash terms, but to me it is a highly valued machine that I can't simply replace with a new one as they aren't made like that any more. Same goes for my late-80's 531-framed Gemini 18 hybrid. Cost me peanuts used, don't seem to be very sought after, but another nice-riding quality British bike that's no longer made.

Your son's MTB may have been cheap, but it clearly wasn't a BSO to survive that well. Before all the real dross full-sus junk took over it was perfectly possible to buy a cheap MTB and have it last well. Someone I know bought a low-end Falcon rigid MTB about 20 years ago for £60 in some kind of promotion. It's a decent enough welded hi-tensile job with basic Shimano mechanicals and cheap alloy rims, and it's still going strong as a utility runabout and even looks quite smart on the rare occasions it gets a wash. No rust on the frame, quite impressive really.


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## keithmac (24 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Inded but computers such as the ZX80 used the Z80 chip which was not made by Intel. The Tandy TRS-80 launched in 1977 also used the z80 chip, made by Zilogs. In the UK market I am not sure home computers used much of Intel. I remember writing assembler programs on the TRS-80 back in the day. The later BBC Micro used the Acorn 6502 Risc chip, and I remember writing RISC assembler on those in the early 80's. Acorn of course turned in ARM the designer of most of the chips used in modern smart phones. Dragon computers used a Motorola CPU, as did the Amiga.



The Amiga was a revolution in home computing and far ahead of it's time!.

Good old Gary, Agnus, Denise and Paula!. Unlucky if you ever saw the Guru Meditation..


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## Edwardoka (24 Nov 2018)

keithmac said:


> The Amiga was a revolution in home computing and far ahead of it's time!.
> 
> Good old Gary, Agnus, Denise and Paula!. Unlucky if you ever saw the Guru Meditation..


I remember the incredible feeling of technological progress that came from going from a CPC 464 to an Amiga.
I loved my A600 but I later came to resent it because it lacked so much of the upgradeability of the line - an exercise in Commodore execs exploiting customers six months before the A1200 was released. It was originally numbered the A300 because it was effectively a trimmed down A500+ but marketing would never approve such a thing.

David Pleasance, the guy who ran Commodore UK (and later attempted to buy out the Amiga brand) is quite forthright about the demise of Commodore.
His interviews on youtube are quite insightful if you're interested.


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## Alembicbassman (24 Nov 2018)

BSOs are often sold with the forks facing the wrong way.

I pointed this out recently to a work colleague riding a British Eagle BSO to work. (She often used to take a taxi back home)


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## User76022 (24 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> I remember the incredible feeling of technological progress that came from going from a CPC 464 to an Amiga.
> I loved my A600 but I later came to resent it because it lacked so much of the upgradeability of the line - an exercise in Commodore execs exploiting customers six months before the A1200 was released. It was originally numbered the A300 because it was effectively a trimmed down A500+ but marketing would never approve such a thing.
> 
> David Pleasance, the guy who ran Commodore UK (and later attempted to buy out the Amiga brand) is quite forthright about the demise of Commodore.
> His interviews on youtube are quite insightful if you're interested.


The whole amiga thing was a classic example of innovation betrayed by bad marketing. 

The A500 was of course a classic. Awesome for its time. Later versions had their technical strengths but we're so badly misplaced within the market. I remember the A600 being pushed more or less as a games console even though the megadrive (or its successor?) was out at the same time, was cheaper, and was actually better placed for that sector of the market. The A1200 was awesome for its day, but I seem to recall it be positioned as a games machine with some productivity, despite the fact that hardly any games worked on it and its productivity suite was very limited. With decent software and better marketing, it could have rivalled the Apple Mac of the day. Personally I liked its AV capabilities. It would have been great for amateur movie and animation work, but I don't recall their being much in the way of software to really support that.


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## keithmac (24 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> I remember the incredible feeling of technological progress that came from going from a CPC 464 to an Amiga.
> I loved my A600 but I later came to resent it because it lacked so much of the upgradeability of the line - an exercise in Commodore execs exploiting customers six months before the A1200 was released. It was originally numbered the A300 because it was effectively a trimmed down A500+ but marketing would never approve such a thing.
> 
> David Pleasance, the guy who ran Commodore UK (and later attempted to buy out the Amiga brand) is quite forthright about the demise of Commodore.
> His interviews on youtube are quite insightful if you're interested.



I had a 2nd generation A500 (Kickstart 1.3), those were the days!. 

Bought an A1200 many years later with a Blizzard 060 upgrade card but still to this day the late 80's early 90's Amiga demo scene will hold a special place in my heart!.

There were some very talented people around the Amiga (designing it and coding for it!).

Never see the like again imho.


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## bigjim (24 Nov 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'd happily go any distance on a reasonably well maintained Pioneer in complete confidence that it would get me to my destination. The only reason I won't ride my decent one anywhere dodgy is purely down to the risk of theft or malicious damage whilst unattended. It isn't especially valuable in cash terms, but to me it is a highly valued machine that I can't simply replace with a new one as they aren't made like that any more. Same goes for my late-80's 531-framed Gemini 18 hybrid. Cost me peanuts used, don't seem to be very sought after, but another nice-riding quality British bike that's no longer made.
> 
> Your son's MTB may have been cheap, but it clearly wasn't a BSO to survive that well. Before all the real dross full-sus junk took over it was perfectly possible to buy a cheap MTB and have it last well. Someone I know bought a low-end Falcon rigid MTB about 20 years ago for £60 in some kind of promotion. It's a decent enough welded hi-tensile job with basic Shimano mechanicals and cheap alloy rims, and it's still going strong as a utility runabout and even looks quite smart on the rare occasions it gets a wash. No rust on the frame, quite impressive really.


Well the word basic says it all. That's what it was and is probably the reason it lasted. A simple alloy frame and steel rigid fork. Basic low end Shimano drivetrain. Alloy wheels. this conversation has reminded me, I actually still run the wheels on an old steel Raleigh MTB to replace the heavy chrome ones. They needed new bearings and grease when he'd finished with them, but good enough now. The frame was dumped but only because it was scratched so much. The bars, twist grip and V brakes are still in the spares box.


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## alecstilleyedye (8 Dec 2018)

Slioch said:


> I've been cycling all my life, but until a few year ago I only had 2 bikes - a tourer and a mountain bike.
> When I hit 50, I decided to get myself a "racing" bike so I could use cycling for fitness as well as just for fun. Not being sure whether I would like this kind of bike, I bought a Carrera Virtuoso from Halfords for £250, rather than splashing out megabucks on a "fancy" bike. The components were pretty basic, and I guess some would regard this as being a BSO.
> However, I really liked riding a "racing" bike, so over time I have upgraded the wheels and tyres to something lighter, and fitted Tiagra groupset throughout.
> This transformed the bike from being heavy and agricultural to being a really decent ride. I now also own a fancy carbon "racing" bike but, if I'm brutally honest with myself, my favourite bike to ride is the Carrera because it just "feels right".
> I guess my point here is that if a BSO has a decent frame then, matched with the right components, it can be transformed.


the virtuoso is a good bike for the price. it may have cheaper components, but you can at least fettle them to get the best out of them. 

carrera aren’t really bso bikes, although the apollo range are pretty much...


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Dec 2018)

alecstilleyedye said:


> the virtuoso is a good bike for the price. it may have cheaper components, but you can at least fettle them to get the best out of them.
> 
> carrera aren’t really bso bikes, although the apollo range are pretty much...



Often used as low-cost drop-bar commuting bikes in central London, I've noticed quite a few of them locked up on the street. Presumably they also have limited thief appeal.
I wouldn't entirely agree that Apollo are all automatically BSO; mine isn't - but then its a 26" rigid, with no suspension bits to wear out and end up riding like a bag of spanners. At the cheap end of the market the name of the game is keep it simple and have as few moving parts on the bike as possible.


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