# Is a bread free diet pointless if you keep at the spuds?



## bennydorano (9 Jan 2012)

Giving up on bread for a while with the target of losing some weight (no other health reason for it). If say, I still have one main meal per day of Potatoes, Pasta or Rice is it wasted effort or is there still a good chance of weight loss??


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## yello (9 Jan 2012)

Put it this way, there's a better chance of weight loss if you cut the spuds and pasta too. But cutting out the bread would be a good 'bang for buck' start. Though without looking at your diet in it's entirety, it is difficult to know.

You could start with just cutting out the bread and then if that doesn't give the results you want, cut out the other carbs/starch. Loosing weight can be trial and error.


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## jim55 (9 Jan 2012)

yeah ,,bread is just carbs as is pasta theres very little protein in either ,,so ud do better if u cut both out ,,but you do need some or ul have no get up and go at all,,reduction of anything is better than nothing ,,its overall calories that u should b interested in ,,lose weight ===eat less than u need ,,,


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## swampyseifer (9 Jan 2012)

the difference is that bread is full of other bad things like sugar...potatoes, rice and pasta isnt (if you count them without sauces/toppings/whatever)


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## Riding in Circles (9 Jan 2012)

The only reason to eat plain pasta or plain rice is if you live in a communist dictatorship and believe joy is the devils work.


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## Dan B (9 Jan 2012)

Hey, I like plain pasta. It's nice and crunchy. I hear that some people prefer to cook it first, but it'd be a dull world if we all though the same


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## amaferanga (9 Jan 2012)

Why not just eat a bit less bread, pasta, potatoes, etc. each day? I'd have thought that'd be more sustainable than cutting out something like bread completely.

And maybe switch to wholemeal everything and sweet potatoes instead of regular potatoes if you haven't already (this won't necessarily lead to you consuming fewer calories of course).


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## bennydorano (9 Jan 2012)

I've other dietary irons in the fire, this is another facet. I could never go on a full 'Atkins'. I do eat a ridiculous amount of bread some days, so I'd like to think there could be a signicant weight loss if I dont go mad on the other carb staples.


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## Edge705 (9 Jan 2012)

bennydorano said:


> Giving up on bread for a while with the target of losing some weight (no other health reason for it). If say, I still have one main meal per day of Potatoes, Pasta or Rice is it wasted effort or is there still a good chance of weight loss??


 
No need to stop eating bread just cut back there are plenty of healthy wheight loss diets for cycling most of which contain a slice of wholemeal toast cutting back on carbs will help but its not the answer the wheight 'll just come back - I would never advocate a diet to anyone Im far from qualified to to that but what I have learnt is if you combine the rright balance your less likely to put wheigh on fast, more likely to stableise, and providing you exercise (cycle) more likely to lose wheight. What I mean by balancing is protein/carb intake so for example in simple terms if you have a biscuit with a cup of tea and you want another biscuit - ditch another biscuit for a yoghurt or slice of cheese (light cheese such as feta not cheddar or high fat cheeses) If you crave sugar have some cereal with milk ideal protein carb balance

However I agree in keeping your bread intake to a minimum its a stodge - As for potatoes swap for sweet potatoes (roasted) hmmm lovely.


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## Globalti (9 Jan 2012)

Keep eating good healthy bread because it's a good source of fibre, vitamins and long-term energy. Eat it with a little real butter and it won't do you any harm - but avoid marge and spreads as hydrogenated vegetable oils have a tendency to settle as fat inside the body cavity.

But cut out pasta, spuds and rice as you really don't need them with your meal. Last year I was on a 2-week business trip and was planning a 68 mile race on the final day so as I was eating in restaurants every night I simply ordered fish and meat with salad and the weight dropped off me. Curiously I also had a strange buttery fatty taste in my mouth, which, apparently was a by-product of my body consuming stored fat.


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## Enigma2008 (9 Jan 2012)

Eat or don't eat whatever type of food you decide but the simple fact is calories in versus calories out is the equation to keep in mind. To lose weight it really doesn't matter what type of food you do (or don't) eat if there are more calories being burned off than consumed. Simples!


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## Cheradenine (9 Jan 2012)

Every diet from around the world has a "staple" in it that provides most of the carbs you need, that can be rice, spuds, pasta, cracked wheat etc etc or as was and still is the case in a lot of europe - bread.

If your meals already have carbs in them in the form of spuds/rice/pasta then why are you eating bread on top of that?

One of them has to go or you have to reduce your intake of both, it's not the fact that you are eating bread it's simply the fact you are scoffing too many carbs.

I know that for some people, especialy if there has been a working class background, that rounds of bread with every meal is an old habbit picked up from previous generations but you really don't bread added to every meal of a modern diet.


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## Garz (9 Jan 2012)

I think the latest fad is to be anti-carbs however for an endurance based sport it's not really the answer. Your better off tapering the carb intake to reduce some weight (short term) but still eat enough for energy requirements. Cutting out the carbs is being too severe.


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## mcshroom (10 Jan 2012)

The benefit in cutting out bread from your diet is that it prevent's the temptation to snack on sandwiches (or does in my case). Nutritionally I'm not sure what difference it would make in isolation, but I find not having any bread and therefore not having the option of making a sarnie when I feel a little hungry is helpful.


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## brockers (10 Jan 2012)

mcshroom said:


> The benefit in cutting out bread from your diet is that it prevent's the temptation to snack on sandwiches (or does in my case). Nutritionally I'm not sure what difference it would make in isolation, but I find not having any bread and therefore not having the option of making a sarnie when I feel a little hungry is helpful.


 
Bang on. I more or less gave up bread last year having tried to lose those last five pounds for a few years to no avail. Having no bread in the house means not being able to cheat on your diet, as it's so easy to knock up a big fat late night cheese sarnie when you're bored and which you conveniently leave out of your calorie count. So I finally got down to a no bread-assisted, nine and a half stone last year without killing myself with too much of that sweaty exercise nonsense either! (Back up to ten now, though. Bloody Christmas etc)


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## MattHB (10 Jan 2012)

Catrike UK said:


> The only reason to eat plain pasta or plain rice is if you live in a communist dictatorship and believe joy is the devils work.



That's so not true. Pilau rice (just spices), grilled chicken breast chopped up and mixed in with sweetcorn and baby carrots. Who wouldn't like that!


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## yello (10 Jan 2012)

Enigma2008 said:


> Eat or don't eat whatever type of food you decide but the simple fact is calories in versus calories out is the equation to keep in mind. To lose weight it really doesn't matter what type of food you do (or don't) eat if there are more calories being burned off than consumed. Simples!


 
I disagree. I've said so before and I'll say so again. It is too simplistic a view to say that weight loss is simply 'calories in v calories out'.

Simple calorie counting is becoming out moded and there are people these days looking at how the different food types (carb, fat, protein) are stored by the body. It seems not all calories are equal, and (say) 200 calories of carb is more likely to lead to lead to weight gain than 200 calories of protein. (I use that to illustrate the thinking, it may or may not be true).


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## broomwagon (10 Jan 2012)

Cheradenine said:


> I know that for some people, especialy if there has been a working class background, that rounds of bread with every meal is an old habbit picked up from previous generations but you really don't need bread added to every meal of a modern diet.


 
I'd agree with that. I stopped doing exactly that a while ago. I was having a couple of rounds with my tea and it was just habit. My lad's a sports scientist, so on a visit and while having lunch he must have been watching what I was eating and mentioned it to me. I still have a round or two of bread throughout the week but no where near like the amount I used to have


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Cut out all fat in your diet and you will lose weight quicker than you think. Iv done this and lost two stone in three months without trying. Its the diet bodybuilders use to rip up for a competition. Ill pm you a list of foods if you want, eat as much as you like and lose. My best result was three quarters of a stone in 11 days.


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## amaferanga (10 Jan 2012)

yello said:


> I disagree. I've said so before and I'll say so again. It is too simplistic a view to say that weight loss is simply 'calories in v calories out'.
> 
> Simple calorie counting is becoming out moded and there are people these days looking at how the different food types (carb, fat, protein) are stored by the body. It seems not all calories are equal, and (say) 200 calories of carb is more likely to lead to lead to weight gain than 200 calories of protein. (I use that to illustrate the thinking, it may or may not be true).


 
If you're doing exercise then calorie timing is one of the most important things with regards how the calories are used. So all you've got to do is eat the right quantities if the right things at the right time


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## Garz (10 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ill pm you a list of foods if you want, eat as much as you like and lose. My best result was three quarters of a stone in 11 days.


 
3/4 of a stone in 11 days is not a healthy weight loss amount over a short period of time (unless you competed in a marathon or similar during this time). 1-2 lbs per week is optimum as gradual weight loss tends to stay off (backed up by studies). The bodybuilders do it to win the competition and their bodyfat drops t o dangerous levels leading to cramping and probably other unhealthy side effects. I would not recommend this.


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## ColinJ (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> The bodybuilders do it to win the competition and their bodyfat drops to dangerous levels leading to cramping and probably other unhealthy side effects.


I have a mate who used to be a bodybuilder. He told me how he used to starve himself before competitions and even deliberately dehydrate himself so he'd end up with tiny body fat levels, and transparent skin to show off his veins and muscles. His body looked enormously powerful, but he told me that he'd be so weak on competition day that he would just have enough energy to go on stage and do the poses, then he'd go backstage and basically black out - that sure didn't sound healthy to me!


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## jim55 (10 Jan 2012)

the stuff that people are posting here (calorie timing and things )is advanced stuff and may or may not work ,,what i KNOW and loadsa personal trainers /dieticians etc is that calories in v calories out works ,,thats a fact ,,while a bit simplistic it works as intended


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> 3/4 of a stone in 11 days is not a healthy weight loss amount over a short period of time (unless you competed in a marathon or similar during this time). 1-2 lbs per week is optimum as gradual weight loss tends to stay off (backed up by studies). The bodybuilders do it to win the competition and their bodyfat drops t o dangerous levels leading to cramping and probably other unhealthy side effects. I would not recommend this.


 This is a misconception, you get plenty of protien and carbs as well as fruit and veg too, and you take it as far as you want. Im not competeing, but Im fat, so need to shift another couple of stones and ill be happy, on this diet where you eat as much as you need to feel full, it comes off safely.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I have a mate who used to be a bodybuilder. He told me how he used to starve himself before competitions and even deliberately dehydrate himself so he'd end up with tiny body fat levels, and transparent skin to show off his veins and muscles. His body looked enormously powerful, but he told me that he'd be so weak on competition day that he would just have enough energy to go on stage and do the poses, then he'd go backstage and basically black out - that sure didn't sound healthy to me!


 Yes this is the extreme for competition, but that takes what im talking about to the next level. What Im doing is relatively mild compared to that.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> 3/4 of a stone in 11 days is not a healthy weight loss amount over a short period of time (unless you competed in a marathon or similar during this time). 1-2 lbs per week is optimum as gradual weight loss tends to stay off (backed up by studies). The bodybuilders do it to win the competition and their bodyfat drops t o dangerous levels leading to cramping and probably other unhealthy side effects. I would not recommend this.


 I forgot to add, when I lost this it was while driving for ten hours a day and doing nothing else too, it was my first loss when I started doing it. But do it properly and safely and an average of 4 to 7 pounds can be lost weekly. After a couple of weeks you will hit a sticking point though, its your body trying to hold onto body fat, as it isnt getting fat from another source. But stick with it and it will start shifting again.


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## Garz (10 Jan 2012)

col said:


> This is a misconception, you get plenty of protien and carbs as well as fruit and veg too, and you take it as far as you want. Im not competeing, but Im fat, so need to shift another couple of stones and ill be happy, on this diet where you eat as much as you need to feel full, it comes off safely.


 
I used to be into weights when I was a teenager and read all the top mags like Muscle & Fitness. When you speak to the levels that people really goto to compete you start to understand that there's _looking_ good but actually being healthy and a good weight are different. My background was Biology and PE and researched quite a lot whilst accumulating my own take on training.

I may not have been a Dorian Yates but I know enough for it to not be a misconception. Encouraging strangers on a forum to follow a bodybuilders guide to dehydration is not what I would call sensible weight loss... 

If it works for you then bravo!


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## Camrider (10 Jan 2012)

Don't see the point of cutting out any of those things totally, just don't snack on high carb products between main meals especially if like me you midnight toast was accompanied by hefty chunks of cheese.

If you you going to cut anything totally then it should be stuff full of saturated fat. I do miss my cheese but not the extra 28kg of lard I was carrying around. this time last year.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> I used to be into weights when I was a teenager and read all the top mags like Muscle & Fitness. When you speak to the levels that people really goto to compete you start to understand that there's _looking_ good but actually being healthy and a good weight are different. My background was Biology and PE and researched quite a lot whilst accumulating my own take on training.
> 
> I may not have been a Dorian Yates but I know enough for it to not be a misconception. Encouraging strangers on a forum to follow a bodybuilders guide to dehydration is not what I would call sensible weight loss...
> 
> If it works for you then bravo!


 MMmm you seem to be missreading my post, as Iv never said anything about dehydration. only about protien, carbs and fruit and veg. where did you get the idea that I want to dehydrate ?


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> Don't see the point of cutting out any of those things totally, just don't snack on high carb products between main meals especially if like me you midnight toast was accompanied by hefty chunks of cheese.
> 
> If you you going to cut anything totally then it should be stuff full of saturated fat. I do miss my cheese but not the extra 28kg of lard I was carrying around. this time last year.


 Thats all my diet is, cutting out fat, it works and can be very healthy too.


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## Garz (10 Jan 2012)

col said:


> MMmm you seem to be missreading my post, as Iv never said anything about dehydration. only about protien, carbs and fruit and veg. where did you get the idea that I want to dehydrate ?


 


col said:


> Cut out all fat in your diet and you will lose weight quicker than you think. Iv done this and lost two stone in three months without trying. Its the diet bodybuilders use to rip up for a competition.


 
Maybe as I have some knowledge of this type of eating I was on a different wavelength to what you was suggesting.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> I used to be into weights when I was a teenager and read all the top mags like Muscle & Fitness. When you speak to the levels that people really goto to compete you start to understand that there's _looking_ good but actually being healthy and a good weight are different. My background was Biology and PE and researched quite a lot whilst accumulating my own take on training.
> 
> I may not have been a Dorian Yates but I know enough for it to not be a misconception. Encouraging strangers on a forum to follow a bodybuilders guide to dehydration is not what I would call sensible weight loss...
> 
> If it works for you then bravo!


 Just as a side note,seeing as you wanted to let us know about your sports history. my brother, step dad and myself have a combined 70 years of being gym intructors martail arts instructors and bodybuilding competitors, so have actually looked into this. And also trained with top bodybuilders over the years.My brother also trained with Dorian yates too, back in the days when my brother came second in the Mr north east britain and was invited to compete in the mr olympia. So Im not advocating the diet your mistakingly talking about. I would also say it isnt a sensible thing to do. But you dont actually know what my diet consists of do you? So in fact are just guessing and poo pooing it , with your mistaken idea of what it consists off.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> Maybe as I have some knowledge of this type of eating I was on a different wavelength to what you was suggesting.


 I was actually saying to just cut all fat out of your diet, but because I added its what bodybuilders use to cut up, I can see why you may assume the dehydration route, sorry I should have been more specific.


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## Camrider (10 Jan 2012)

> Thats all my diet is, cutting out fat, it works and can be very healthy too.


 
Its also cheap and does not enrich the likes of Atkins and other snake oil salesmen.


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## col (10 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> Its also cheap and does not enrich the likes of Atkins and other snake oil salesmen.


 Exactly, and its healthy too.


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## ColinJ (10 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Exactly, and its healthy too.


No it isn't - bodies _need_ essential fats, that's why they are called _essential_ rather than _optional!_

If you want to quote bodybuilding lore, then take a look at bodybuilding.com's fat articles!


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## yello (11 Jan 2012)

> So all you've got to do is eat the right quantities if the right things at the right time


Yes, it's all so simple isn't it! 



> Cut out all fat in your diet and you will lose weight quicker than you think. Iv done this and lost two stone in three months without trying


 
I remember back in the 80s I lost a few kilo following a low fat diet (as was the advice then). However, whether the weight loss was due to the low fat diet or not I don't know as I was also eating less generally and going to a gym several times a week.

As with most subjects, the thinking is changing pretty much constantly. People in positions of apparent knowledge (dieticians, gym instructors, etc) can give out the wrong advice too if they are not up to date. And that's if we put aside preference, pet theories and the fact there is conflicting advice (all research based) at any one time.

Clearly, as a simplistic statement 'burn more than you eat' (or 'calories in v calories out') IS correct. Actually it's a statement of the bleeding obvious if you think about it! But it's a blunt tool because it tells you nothing about the HOW. By finding out just a little about the processes involved then you can be a little clever about your weight loss campaign.

With all this diet advice around, it gets confusing! I think different things work for different people. It's a matter of experimenting to find out what works for you. I'm a lazy sod, I like to take the easy way wherever possible and so am not a fan of knocking myself out on a treadmill, but each to their own!


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## amaferanga (11 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Exactly, and its healthy too.


 
Cutting out fat completely is unhealthy and unsustainable.


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## Camrider (11 Jan 2012)

Agreed, which is why I stipulated saturated fats not cutting out fat entirely (which is nearly impossible to do). I now avoid everything with a high saturated fat content but I don't spare the olive oil and eat plenty of oily fish so hopefully I'm not lacking any essential fats.


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

amaferanga said:


> Cutting out fat completely is unhealthy and unsustainable.


 Most of it anyway. The way Im doing it it is.


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> Agreed, which is why I stipulated saturated fats not cutting out fat entirely (which is nearly impossible to do). I now avoid everything with a high saturated fat content but I don't spare the olive oil and eat plenty of oily fish so hopefully I'm not lacking any essential fats.


 I use mackarel, now and then, but not olive oil.


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

yello said:


> Yes, it's all so simple isn't it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I agree. Try it and see, simple as that really.


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> No it isn't - bodies _need_ essential fats, that's why they are called _essential_ rather than _optional!_
> 
> If you want to quote bodybuilding lore, then take a look at bodybuilding.com's fat articles!


 Another one assuming wrongly. Im not quoting anything, Im doing a diet that works, and Im very healthy too. If you want to ask what my diet consists of before wrongly assuming, well it does happen a lot here, I would be glad to answer any of your questions.


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## amaferanga (11 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Another one assuming wrongly. Im not quoting anything, Im doing a diet that works, and Im very healthy too. If you want to ask what my diet consists of before wrongly assuming, well it does happen a lot here, I would be glad to answer any of your questions.


 
You said you completely cut out fat did you not?



> Thats all my diet is, cutting out fat, it works and can be very healthy too.


 
I take that to mean no fat, as opposed to reducing fat, which could be perfectly healthy.


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

amaferanga said:


> You said you completely cut out fat did you not?
> 
> 
> 
> I take that to mean no fat, as opposed to reducing fat, which could be perfectly healthy.


 A figure of speech, quiet a lot of it, in fact the formula is only eat things with 4.5 grams or less of fat per 100 grams.


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## ColinJ (11 Jan 2012)

col said:


> A figure of speech, quiet a lot of it, in fact the formula is only eat things with 4.5 grams or less of fat per 100 grams.


Ha - amaferanga got in there before me! 

Cutting out crap fats and eating the right amount of essential fats, yes - *that* is healthy, but that wasn't what you wrote!


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Ha - amaferanga got in there before me!
> 
> Cutting out crap fats and eating the right amount of essential fats, yes - *that* is healthy, but that wasn't what you wrote!


 Your right, so what are the essential fats ?


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## ColinJ (11 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Your right, so what are the essential fats ?


Well, I'm sure that you know, and I have a good idea but I'll check to make sure that I don't misinform anybody ... Let Wikipedia explain it!


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## col (11 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Well, I'm sure that you know, and I have a good idea but I'll check to make sure that I don't misinform anybody ... Let Wikipedia explain it!


 Dont worry I was being sarky and was waiting for you to google them


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## ColinJ (11 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Dont worry I was being sarky and was waiting for you to google them


I've already done Let Me Google That For You elsewhere on CycleChat this evening! (_Recursion_, see _Recursion_!)


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## Garz (11 Jan 2012)

Col is a man of consistently being inconsistent (but in his own head he's right)!


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## Enigma2008 (12 Jan 2012)

Food is food! Just keep it simple, eating less than you burn off = weight loss. Burning off more than you eat = weight loss. If you eat high calorific foods then you need to eat a lot less and will feel hungry, low calorific foods mean you can eat more and feel fuller. All this bull about types of food and faddy diets will always boil (no pun intended) down to calories in v calories out.


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## amaferanga (12 Jan 2012)

Enigma2008 said:


> Food is food! Just keep it simple, eating less than you burn off = weight loss. Burning off more than you eat = weight loss. If you eat high calorific foods then you need to eat a lot less and will feel hungry, low calorific foods mean you can eat more and feel fuller. All this bull about types of food and faddy diets will always boil (no pun intended) down to calories in v calories out.


 
If you're trying to lose weight while still cycling a lot and training to race (for example) then food type and calorie timing is VERY important. If you don't give a stuff how little energy you have then I agree that calories in _vs._ calories out is all that really matters.


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## Enigma2008 (12 Jan 2012)

amaferanga said:


> If you're trying to lose weight while still cycling a lot and training to race (for example) then food type and calorie timing is VERY important. If you don't give a stuff how little energy you have then I agree that calories in _vs._ calories out is all that really matters.


 
I totally agree with you, training and racing place very heavy demands on the body and that needs to be met with appropriate fuelling. Though in my view trying to lose any significant weight by cutting food intake at the same time is a recipe for disaster. Ideally the objective should be to lose weight prior to entering the race phase.


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## yello (12 Jan 2012)

> All this bull about types of food and faddy diets will always boil (no pun intended) down to calories in v calories out.


 
Yes, of course it does. That is, if you're to take a wide definition of the expression 'calories in v calories out'. It stands to reason. It's like saying 'if the car has no petrol in the tank then it won't run'. So you live your life filling the tank with whatever fuel without ever thinking of fuel efficiency.

That simple expression takes no account of how the body converts food into energy, how it stores it, when it stores it, what processes are involved, how those processes are impacted by other factors, etc, etc, etc ... and that's all before you even get to thinking about how the body burns its energy stores. You just assume that a slice of bread at x calories will fuel x minutes of high intensity exercise. You're not considering the other factors that are involved in that process.

It's a 'black box' statement; a cable in and a cable out with no thought about what happens in the box.

Now of course you don't have to know anything about the processes. It's not compulsory. You can just fill the tank, run it down and fill it again. It works, of course it does. Personally, I don't mind what anyone does re weight loss (whatever your preferred method is), but please don't say it's 'simply' calories in v calories out because that belies the processes involved. If you know just a little of those processes then this enables you to tackle your weight loss as less of an onerous chore. The approach implied by 'calories in v calories out' is often, imho, a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


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## col (12 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> Col is a man of consistently being inconsistent (but in his own head he's right)!


 Yes er no er far away er oh fick


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## Garz (12 Jan 2012)

Enigma2008 said:


> Food is food! Just keep it simple, eating less than you burn off = weight loss. Burning off more than you eat = weight loss. If you eat high calorific foods then you need to eat a lot less and will feel hungry, low calorific foods mean you can eat more and feel fuller. All this bull about types of food and faddy diets will always boil (no pun intended) down to calories in v calories out.


 
That's all very well when your getting your body into a catabolic state and doing little to no exercise. As amafaranga and yello mentioned if your training or exercising whilst trying to lose some weight then it's important you eat certain fuels in order to recover and not feel too weak. If you have no energy to exercise then you cannot progress as fast (or even worse sustain an injury). Whilst in a catabolic state you also lose muscle which is normally unwanted as opposed to fat. As most people know, in cycling your power to weight is important and maintaining muscle is not as simple as boldly stating "eating less than you burn".

Let's not confuse weight loss with training smart!


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## col (12 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> That's all very well when your getting your body into a catabolic state and doing little to no exercise. As amafaranga and yello mentioned if your training or exercising whilst trying to lose some weight then it's important you eat certain fuels in order to recover and not feel too weak. If you have no energy to exercise then you cannot progress as fast (or even worse sustain an injury). Whilst in a catabolic state you also lose muscle which is normally unwanted as opposed to fat. As most people know, in cycling your power to weight is important and maintaining muscle is not as simple as boldly stating "eating less than you burn".
> 
> Let's not confuse weight loss with training smart!


 Protien and carbs in proper quantities will keep and even build muscle, Like I said, just cut fats out and you lose fat but not muscle tissue.


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## Garz (12 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Like I said, just cut fats out and you lose fat but not muscle tissue.


 
Eating too much carbs will get stored as fat, so you need to be sensible with regard to this statement.


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## col (12 Jan 2012)

Garz said:


> Eating too much carbs will get stored as fat, so you need to be sensible with regard to this statement.


 Dont tell me, if I cut ALL fat out its unhealthy too


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## swampyseifer (13 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Protien and carbs in proper quantities will keep and even build muscle, Like I said, just cut fats out and you lose fat but not muscle tissue.


 
I was under the impression that the body will break down both fat and muscle to deal with fuelling a dieting body? In fact, afaik the only way you could ensure that muscle volume doesnt "go down" would be to do some kind of training that utilises muscles in particular (resistance/weights)?


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## BluesDave (13 Jan 2012)

It's pointless if you want to make a sandwich.


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## BluesDave (13 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Cut out all fat in your diet and you will lose weight quicker than you think. Iv done this and lost two stone in three months without trying. Its the diet bodybuilders use to rip up for a competition. Ill pm you a list of foods if you want, eat as much as you like and lose. My best result was three quarters of a stone in 11 days.


 Please PM it to me as well.


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## srw (13 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Dont tell me, if I cut ALL fat out its unhealthy too


 It is. But you've already admitted that when you say "cut out all fat" you don't actually mean "all fat", you mean "any food with a fat content of more than 4.5%". Most of us on low-fat diets, for instance, would cut out full-fat milk (3.5%) - but you're happy to sink it by the gallon.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

srw said:


> It is. But you've already admitted that when you say "cut out all fat" you don't actually mean "all fat", you mean "any food with a fat content of more than 4.5%". Most of us on low-fat diets, for instance, would cut out full-fat milk (3.5%) - but you're happy to sink it by the gallon.[/quote]
> Mmmm wonder where you got that from? I did admit to not all fats in the sense you pedance mean, but Im sure you will think of some other way to have a dig


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

DavidDecorator said:


> Please PM it to me as well.


 Now I would add, that you do it sensibly. There are those on here who take every word and hold you to it. I had fish and chips the other night for tea, bloody delish it was too, but back on the diet the next day and still lose weight at the end of the week.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

swampyseifer said:


> I was under the impression that the body will break down both fat and muscle to deal with fuelling a dieting body? In fact, afaik the only way you could ensure that muscle volume doesnt "go down" would be to do some kind of training that utilises muscles in particular (resistance/weights)?


 If your suffering from malnutrition it will. Also yes if your actively training, then you could also gain muscle mass. But normal activities would stop atrophy at least, unless you already have muscle mass through training, then you would have to keep training or your muscles would atrophy too.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

Id better add for the ones who like to jump on things . When I say all fats, I mean most from your daily diet, and in no way mean every single type and bit of fat, that would make you ill. Alright mr pedant?


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

DavidDecorator said:


> It's pointless if you want to make a sandwich.


 You can have sarnies too, just dont use butter/marg, I use daddies sauce instead, so in effect dry bread with chicken, or tuna, or even fish, bloooody delish


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## srw (13 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Id better add for the ones who like to jump on things . When I say all fats, I mean most from your daily diet, and in no way mean every single type and bit of fat, that would make you ill. Alright mr pedant?


So when you say "all fats" you actually mean "not all fats". Especially not those in tuna. Or in full-fat milk. And especially not in fish and chips.

I hope that's cleared up any confusion.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

No, when I mean all fats Im actauly saying all the ones normally associated with being the fat in fatty foods we eat on a daily basis. I didnt know there was a way to get molecules of fat out of tuna, do tell me how you do this? Or were you just making it up to be obtuse


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## srw (13 Jan 2012)

So you don't actually mean "all fats", you mean "all fats except those that naturally occur in food". Now we're getting somewhere.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

srw said:


> So you don't actually mean "all fats", you mean "all fats except those that naturally occur in food". Now we're getting somewhere.


 No No Noooooo, please keep up, this is smaaaaall, that is far awaaaaay


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

1679977 said:


> The line is "OK, one last time. These are small... but the ones out there are far away. Small... far away... ah forget it"


 AAh fick, your right.


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## col (13 Jan 2012)

Careful now


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## Garz (14 Jan 2012)

You'l have to stop talking to yourself col, anyone seen his medication?


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## Ghost Donkey (16 Jan 2012)

My favourite ranty subject. I find myself agreeing with Yello here again  Sorry Yello, death by association for you once more I'm afraid.

The human body is complex. I doubt anyone would dispute that. Not all foods, be they rich in carbs, protein or fat, are the same. Everyone is different, every food is different. You can be a high level ultra endurance athlete fueling yourself on animal fats over carbs with plenty of fresh veg (I know one who does this personally and he knows more who do), carbs or some other choice. Scott User10571 was a vegan and a winner of the Badwater ultra marathon. Not sure how he did that but I'm no expert.

What is clear is that just going low fat isn't working for a lot of people and is not the only way to lose weight. The devil is in the detail also. How do you go low fat? How do you go low carb? Government health advice does not move other than to further reduce "fat". What is fat? How is it made? How does your body process it? What is cholesterol? How does being physically active affect this?

Your friend here is knowledge. Read up on the endocrine system and get your information from multiple sources as not to get a one sided view of things. There is a lot of information freely available on how hormones rule the body, including fat storage. A little knowledge really can help you make a more informed food choice. All you have to do is experiment on yourself when you have knowledge.. I'm still lean after changing how I eat. I never measure food, calories etc. I eat a shed load of leafy greens as well as other fresh veggies and fruit. I don't worry about animal fats from fresh food and fish. Within limits of course. We've started buying outdoor reared grass fed meat locally. More expensive but we've cut back on other things. It's no effort to keep the weight off when you find something that works for you personally and it agrees with you. I have found something that works for me. What I do might not work for you but I have no reason to change and what I eat would seem to be healthy.

Reducing carbs does not mean Aktins in the same way reducing fat does not mean you are following weight watchers.


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## Ghost Donkey (17 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Cut out all fat in your diet and you will lose weight quicker than you think. Iv done this and lost two stone in three months without trying. Its the diet bodybuilders use to rip up for a competition. Ill pm you a list of foods if you want, eat as much as you like and lose. My best result was three quarters of a stone in 11 days.


 
I should first of all say well done . I had exactly the same result cutting processed carbs and increasing my natural (for want of a better word) fat and protein in my day. Hi GI/GL carbs from fruit after training or before if it's a biggy with energy drinks for the latter part of 3-4 hour training session on the rare occarsion I get to do one. My energy drink powder is much past it's sell by date. The weight has stayed off and my modest gradual sporting improvements don't seem to have been hindered by the change of diet.

I'd suggest the speed of my weight loss speaks volumes about how badly I was eating in terms of processed carbs before changing. If I'd have stopped fat but kept the carbs I wouldn't have had the same results. That would be true for me, but quite possible not true for anyone else on here. It depends on your current eating habits as well as a number of other factors.. I really should get some piccies up with my ugly mug blocked out. If my employer knew what I was up to in the daytime...

One of the books I read was the paleo diet for athletes. I'm not a paleo dieter but like many books on the subject it was a useful resource with ideas it may be worth considering. A three page summary in a free download can be found at http://www.trainingbible.com/resources.aspx second linked article down. Worth a look if nothing else.


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## Crankarm (17 Jan 2012)

Just eat a balanced diet and do some hard exercise. Don't cut out bread, wholemeal bread is good for you.


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## bennydorano (21 Jan 2012)

2 weeks off bread tomorrow, I've found it tough going at the weekends - not so much during the week. I didn't weigh myself at the start of this experiment so I've nothing concrete to report, but I do look at myself in the mirror and think I looka bit leaner. I would say I probably overcompensated in the first week, at the morning tea break in work I would have normally had 2 slices of bread(Nutty Krust) or 2 scones (soup & sambo most lunches), replaced that most mornings with beans and poached eggs - so i dont know if it was pointless giving up on the bread in a calorific context? I also had a steroid injection in the knee during the period so my exercise was substantially lower than normal. I hope to keep it going for another while, although I've a stag weekend next week end which could throw a spanner in the works.


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## bennydorano (13 Feb 2012)

Can report now that I've lost about half a stone by avoiding the bread in a 5/6 week period. Happy enough with that as I haven't been knocking my pan in with the dieting or exercise.


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