# Heart rate monitors



## NerdThing (2 Feb 2014)

Hello all,
I have a polar heart rate monitor which I've had for a couple of weeks now.
I'm looking for some advice as to how best to use it in my training. Are there any good books or websites that might assist me please?
Thanks,
Hugh


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Lots of HR threads on here - suggest doing a search and then coming up with a few more focused questions after that...


----------



## john59 (3 Feb 2014)

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/heart-rate-monitor-training-for-cyclists-28838/

John


----------



## montage (3 Feb 2014)

Get familiar with the following terms:

Threshold heart rate
Max heart rate
Zones (5 zones is the most popular and endorsed by BC, but different coaches have different recommended zones - read about them and pick the one you like the most).

Over the next week, establish your threshold heart rate and max heart rate using tests as prescribed by google. These are good workouts in themselves.
Next you need to calculate your training zones - this is best done using a % of your threshold heart rate rather than your max heart rate, but both should produce similar results.

BC sets out the name of the zones as follows: 

Zone 1 - active recovery
Zone 2 - endurance
Zone 3 - Tempo
Zone 4 - threshold
Zone 5 - anaerobic

Now, depending on what you goals are, you can build your training program around the above. i.e. if you have a sportive you would like a good time in, lots of Z2 and Z3. If you want to do well in a time trial, you need some Z4. If you are aiming for a recovery ride or even a zone 2 ride, you will be surprised how hard it can be to keep your heart rate within the boundaries - but it is important to do so! Once you have all the zones set up and put onto your computer (if this isn't possible, consider printing them off and taping them to your bars for a while) you are then in a good position to undertake some structured training - feel free to come back and ask about this, lots here will be willing to help


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Zone 5 is a joke tho, You can do anaerobic without going into your max heart rate, dont think ive ever been there.


----------



## uclown2002 (3 Feb 2014)

How far and how frequently do you ride?


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Zone 5 is a joke tho, You can do anaerobic without going into your max heart rate, dont think ive ever been there.



???

This is probably a case of you not understanding something!


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Zone 5 is a joke tho, You can do anaerobic without going into your max heart rate, dont think ive ever been there.



Stay anaerobic long enough, and you'll get there.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> ???
> 
> This is probably a case of you not understanding something!


 
Whats that then?


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Whats that then?



Well unless you elaborate on where your opinion originates from, no-one can tell you where you went wrong!


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

"Zone 5" = "anaerobic" = "max effort" = "hard as you can go" = "weight lifting" Not = Max Heart rate...........


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> "Zone 5" = "anaerobic" = "max effort" = "hard as you can go" = "weight lifting" Not = Max Heart rate...........



You don't think that if you ride as hard as you can, you will not reach your MHR frairly quickly?


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

Are you using your own definitions? Just making stuff up? Or have you actually got this from some source?

Clearly not familiar with training theory or the application of zones. Also seem to be very binary in your interpretation. HR zones are a construct that is not discrete, they are continuous!

FYI, a VO2 max interval would generally fall into Z5! A truly maximal effort, HR would be of no use as you would fatigue and stop before your HR could respond.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Mostly making this stuff up 

I'm saying I can work out "anaerobic" without my heart rate being in "zone 5"


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Mostly making this stuff up
> 
> I'm saying I can work out "anaerobic" without my heart rate being in "zone 5"



Presumably, you are making that up as well..?


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

Well the 1st thing to do is recognise there are no "heart rate zones" as far as your body is concerned, this is a construct that helps you to train within certain ranges to force desired adaptations.

2nd thing to do it recognise the continuous nature of the construct, i.e. a physiological occurance doesn't just stop or start as you transition from zone to zone, as in you won't just go from entirely aerobic to anaerobic as you transition from zone 4 to zone 5. However the emphasis on particular systems will change.

When you are working "anaerobically" below being in "zone 5", how do you know?


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Because I can go in the highest gear, sprint flat out and stop. Thats anaerobic right?
Then my heart rate may have only gone upto say 170bpm. Thats not Zone 5.

Im confused to the confusion


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

Your heart will respond to the effort, but not instantaneously (this is one of the major benefits of using a power meter, you get instantaneous information about your level of effort), it could take upwards of 30 seconds for your HR to raise to the degree which would indicate that level of effort, however, because it is an all out sprint, you will fatigue and stop before your heart has responded. Since you have now stopped, the HR will not continue to rise to max HR!

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the use of HR zones and HR training, in particular the limitations. Taking note of HR in very short intervals is useless!


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Because I can go in the highest gear, sprint flat out and stop. Thats anaerobic right?
> Then my heart rate may have only gone upto say 170bpm. Thats not Zone 5.
> 
> Im confused to the confusion



You're right about the confusion bit. HR is irrelevant in any anaerobic effort anyway.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> You're right about the confusion bit. HR is irrelevant in any anaerobic effort anyway.


 
I thought that was my orignal point
"Zone 5 is a joke tho, You can do anaerobic without going into your max heart rate, dont think ive ever been there."


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

Peter Armstrong said:


> I thought that was my orignal point
> "Zone 5 is a joke tho, You can do anaerobic without going into your max heart rate, dont think ive ever been there."



Nobody has ever said you should be hitting MHR in that zone, for obvious reasons...


----------



## NerdThing (3 Feb 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> Lots of HR threads on here - suggest doing a search and then coming up with a few more focused questions after that...


 
That's kind of an odd reply!

I'll try to be focused then - is there binary data formed into a web page or pages on the world wide web that might assist me in learning to use my HRM or perhaps trees that have been felled; the wood puled, compressed and dried to create paper; printed upon and formed into books on the same subject?


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

For a start, zone 5 would be defined as a range from xx% max heart rate up to max heart rate, i.e. zone 5 is not a single heart rate figure it is a range.

Typically, in this range, any work being done is being done with a large anaerobic element! As said before, this is not discrete (you don't go from aerobic to anaerobic suddenly) it is continuous (both processes still occur, but in different proportions).


----------



## NerdThing (3 Feb 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> How far and how frequently do you ride?


 
Thank you for a sensible answer! At the moment only once a week for about 20 - 30 miles. As the evenings become lighter and thus I have more time, it'll be 5 times a week up to about 150 miles a week, but a mixture of road and MTB.

I'm really looking to be able to get much fitter and increase stamina as I have a place on the Pru London-Surrey 100. So far, the most I've ridden in one go is 75 miles on the off road London to Brighton and some 55 mile road sportives.


----------



## fossyant (3 Feb 2014)

Can folk please stick to the OP's thread. We've already had a couple of 'newbies' leave because of aggressive attitudes !

Leave the in-fighting please.


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

NerdThing said:


> That's kind of an odd reply!
> 
> I'll try to be focused then - is there binary data formed into a web page or pages on the world wide web that might assist me in learning to use my HRM or perhaps trees that have been felled; the wood puled, compressed and dried to create paper; printed upon and formed into books on the same subject?



That's a bit of an odd reply as well. All I said was have a read of some other threads and then come back when you have managed to formulate some more specific questions. Simply asking 'how best to use it in training' is pretty impossible to answer without knowing more about you, your training goals and what kind of improvements you want to see. On the upside, you clearly know your paper mill processes though.....


----------



## NerdThing (3 Feb 2014)

john59 said:


> http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/heart-rate-monitor-training-for-cyclists-28838/
> 
> John


 Thanks John, very interesting and helpful.


----------



## NerdThing (3 Feb 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> That's a bit of an odd reply as well. All I said was have a read of some other threads and then come back when you have managed to formulate some more specific questions. Simply asking 'how best to use it in training' is pretty impossible to answer without knowing more about you, your training goals and what kind of improvements you want to see. On the upside, you clearly know your paper mill processes though.....


 
My question was actually 'Are there any good books or websites that might assist me please?' I'm looking to answer the questions I have myself, from these resources, rather than trouble you with them.

I can see why this forum is having a problem hanging onto new members!


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Can folk please stick to the OP's thread. We've already had a couple of 'newbies' leave because of aggressive attitudes !
> 
> Leave the in-fighting please.



To be fair, Dusty Bin's initial response was a very fair one. We have endless amounts of threads on the same/similar topics, as do most other cycling forums. Further that is an abundance of articles online, in magazines and books etc. An hour searching on google or reading reviews on amazon should shed enough light to either come back with specific questions or maybe even answer all questions.

As for the "in fighting", it was a valid discussion that happened fairly respectively when it could easily have gone otherwise.


----------



## NerdThing (3 Feb 2014)

That's kind of the point of a forum though isn't it? Ask questions and help one another out, even if the same question has been asked before. There is nothing compelling someone to answer if they feel that a question has been asked 'endlessly'.

Anyway, that is enough from me. I will be following the others who have not stuck around. This forum is not for me I'm afraid! It's as welcoming as Hades.

Admin, could you possibly close and delete my account please? Thank you.


----------



## fossyant (3 Feb 2014)

Thank you regulars. Welcome to the new member eh.

Why can not someone give a straight answer - i.e. recommend a web site/book or even a link ! FFS


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

NerdThing said:


> My question was actually 'Are there any good books or websites that might assist me please?' I'm looking to answer the questions I have myself, from these resources, rather than trouble you with them.
> 
> I can see why this forum is having a problem hanging onto new members!



You also said:



NerdThing said:


> I'm looking for some advice as to how best to use it in my training.



Which is the bit where more information would have been useful, evidently. There's plenty of advice available on here, if you know how to tap into it.


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Thank you regulars. Welcome to the new member eh.
> 
> Why can not someone give a straight answer - i.e. recommend a web site/book or even a link ! FFS



I think I did give a straight answer. Pointless advising someone on HR use without any idea of their aims, objectives, current fitness levels, or their propensity to understand training terms and references. Or do you disagree?


----------



## fossyant (3 Feb 2014)

Well that's about the thrid newbie asking for a deletion when talking about heart rates. No point going all technical with somebody that's a beginner, and your responses are aggressive. What is wrong with pointing them at a book or a web site and let them make their own minds up !


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Well that's about the thrid newbie asking for a deletion when talking about heart rates. No point going all technical with somebody that's a beginner, and your responses are aggressive. What is wrong with pointing them at a book or a web site and let them make their own minds up !



That's the point I'm making! I specifically didn't offer a 'technical' answer because I didn't know who I was talking to, hence the suggestion that they read some of the other threads and then come back with some specifics. Where is the agression in that?

Or maybe the next question that comes up, we should all just answer with "_pi55 off and buy a book_" - which seems to be what you are suggesting? Now, that would be aggressive....


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Thank you regulars. Welcome to the new member eh.
> 
> Why can not someone give a straight answer - i.e. recommend a web site/book or even a link ! FFS


 
Hang on a min...


*John59* gave a good link...
*Motage* gave a good explanation of zones....
*I* discounted Zone 5 as not really a zone
*Uclown* asked a question about how far he rides
Then there was a valid discussion about zone 5


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

In fact, the only negativity has been the OP talking about paper production in an otherwise 100% on-topic thread...


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Feb 2014)

Must be my turn to accept blame @Dusty Bin


----------



## fossyant (3 Feb 2014)

Your opinions, but if you read it through the thread it's not helpful to the OP. And we had two other members leave because of a similar discussion, on Heart Rates, over the last week.

Not a good 'fun and friendly response'.


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Your opinions, but if you read it through the thread it's not helpful to the OP.



It's not helpful to the OP, because the OP has decided it is easier to flounce, rather than spend time engaging with people who may be able to help him.


----------



## jefmcg (3 Feb 2014)

@mods Can we change http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/helmet-headphone-debates.19/ to 
*Helmet, Headphone & HRM Debates*


----------



## jefmcg (3 Feb 2014)

@Dusty Bin you are coming across as a bully. I had thought you were a sexist bully after reading another HRM thread, but it turns out you are an equal opportunity bully.

Maybe you don't mean to be, but if I go the responses on my first venture into a new forum, I'd have left too.


----------



## Peter Armstrong (3 Feb 2014)

Dusty Bin's social skills may not be the best but i kind of feel he left to make a point or "get one up" on Dusty.


----------



## JoeyB (3 Feb 2014)

NerdThing said:


> That's kind of the point of a forum though isn't it? Ask questions and help one another out, even if the same question has been asked before. There is nothing compelling someone to answer if they feel that a question has been asked 'endlessly'.
> 
> Anyway, that is enough from me. I will be following the others who have not stuck around. This forum is not for me I'm afraid! It's as welcoming as Hades.
> 
> Admin, could you possibly close and delete my account please? Thank you.



So much drama!

TBH every forum I belong to promotes the use of the search button before posting a question....


----------



## JoeyB (3 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Well that's about the thrid newbie asking for a deletion when talking about heart rates. No point going all technical with somebody that's a beginner, and your responses are aggressive. What is wrong with pointing them at a book or a web site and let them make their own minds up !



That's what Google is for...enter forums at your own risk lol


----------



## Dusty Bin (3 Feb 2014)

jefmcg said:


> @Dusty Bin you are coming across as a bully. I had thought you were a sexist bully after reading another HRM thread, but it turns out you are an equal opportunity bully.
> 
> Maybe you don't mean to be, but if I go the responses on my first venture into a new forum, I'd have left too.



Can you give me a link to the thread where I'm being sexist please? Also, if you could point out the bits of any or both threads where you feel I am bullying anyone, that would be good. If you don't, I will assume that you can't, because there isn't any.


----------



## Rob3rt (3 Feb 2014)

@Dusty Bin you big bully!


----------



## VamP (3 Feb 2014)

At the risk of being accused of being patronising again, is there perhaps just a slight possibility that the OP is a little bit short on internet and social skills? Just sayin'.


----------



## Rustybucket (3 Feb 2014)

F*ck me - its all kicking off today.
Its only a chat forum - no ones died (yet...)


----------



## Spinney (3 Feb 2014)

The fact remains that three new members have left the forums again after discussions on heart rate monitors, with many of the same people involved in each case. You may not think you are bullying, but the posting style can come across as very brusque and not at all welcoming to new members.

As this thread seems to have degenerated into discussing things other than heart rate monitors, I'm locking it for now.


----------

