# Gearing down The Black Kite...



## Pikey (23 Jan 2016)

So, I've tried to follow the instructions on the Trike Hobo blog etc... re. putting a smaller granny ring on my Cat 700, as I quite like going down some of the big old hills round here, which necessitates climbing up the other side and the stock granny is a bit tall for this (think Westbury White Horse at 40rpm cadence). I was getting concerned for my knees if I did it a lot.

But I couldn't find a way of stopping the chain grinding on the middle ring or sucking up once it hit one of the upshift pins without altering the chainline radically, I think due to the size disparity between the new granny and mid ring. 

Today, although probably sacrilegious to the purists out there, I ordered and plopped in a Deore HT2 MTB crankset with the required low gearing. Sure Ive sacrificed some top end speed, but I should still be able to tickle 32mph on the flat with it, and tbh I can count the times Ive done that on a hand with no fingers...

Seems to have fitted fine using the spacers with the supplied BB, although it also fitted into the stock mega exo jobby. Chain runs fine, shifts well, just need to lower the front mech to accommodate the smaller big ring.

Just thought I would share this in case anyone else wants to climb up Cheddar Gorge on their Catrike.

Lushness, cant wait for the weather to warm up, the salt to get off the roads and let the Cat out again for an outdoor ride


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## Smokin Joe (23 Jan 2016)

I've just taken delivery of a Shimano Acera with 48/38/28 rings to replace the stock 52/40/30 that came on my Performer. It uses the same 123mm square taper bottom bracket. I think the gearing supplied with many bikes - let alone trikes - is ridiculously high in these days when an 11t sprocket is more or less standard. The only time I could use 52*11 is by falling over the edge of a cliff.

I would have gone even lower, the other option was 42/32/22 but my front mech won't drop low enough without either touching or running drastically close to the boom.


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## Pikey (23 Jan 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I've just taken delivery of a Shimano Acera with 48/38/28 rings to replace the stock 52/40/30 that came on my Performer. It uses the same 123mm square taper bottom bracket. I think the gearing supplied with many bikes - let alone trikes - is ridiculously high in these days when an 11t sprocket is more or less standard. The only time I could use 52*11 is by falling over the edge of a cliff.
> 
> I would have gone even lower, the other option was 42/32/22 but my front mech won't drop low enough without either touching or running drastically close to the boom.



Yeah, amen to that. I don't think I have ever really needed the big ring small cog combo on any of my stable, apart from on the trike when she is on the rollers as they are non resistive and its probably the only way I'll get a decent workout.

I've just been to check the boom / front mech clearance that you mentioned, I didn't fully consider that. It looks like it might just fit, there were no issues getting down to the small ring anyway using the mech in its present position. I went for a 24t lowest in the end. My thinking was it would be better to have too many gears than to run out midway up a beast of a hill. I remembered climbing Blagdon Hill on last year's mendip transmitter and that was a grind on my Synapse with a compact, think I might need a winch if I were to do it on the Cat's standard gearing.


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## Smokin Joe (23 Jan 2016)

The problem on mine would not be the small ring, but dropping the mech down so it ran reasonably close to the large ring. I might possibly squeeze on a 46t but the 48 will do and I will have more useable small and middle gears.


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## Pikey (23 Jan 2016)

EEEEEK! Mines a 42 top ring, lets hope it all fits!
I'll prob end up getting a slightly bigger top ring when this one wears out anyway...


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## Pikey (23 Jan 2016)

Just went and checked and dropped the front mech down, even though I still have the stock crankset on, and it fits 

That was a tense few minutes  thanks for that heads up though @Smokin Joe


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## Smokin Joe (23 Jan 2016)

Pikey said:


> Just went and checked and dropped the front mech down, even though I still have the stock crankset on, and it fits
> 
> That was a tense few minutes  thanks for that heads up though @Smokin Joe


Nice one.

Mine might just about and a bit of a tweak to the cage would probably have done it but I thought I'd play safe (Or bottle it, take your pick).


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## PaulM (1 Feb 2016)

42T? You could have got a 48/36/26 HT2 Deore. This is what my Thorn Audax came with:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-deore-m590-9-speed-triple-chainset/rp-prod40496

EDIT: I was forgetting, you need 10 speed though.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Feb 2016)

42x11 gives a top gear of 100.5 inches, only six inches lower than you'd get with 52x13 which was the racing standard for years when we only had five sprockets on the wheel. For a non racing machine where the rider isn't bothered about breaking any downhill records it is more than enough, especially on a trike.

As I've said before, most bikes sold now are ridiculously over geared.


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## Always Cross (6 Feb 2016)

Hi Pikey I'm the other one in your village I have a 22 tooth inner chain ring chain set can't remember what size the other ones rings if you want to try it on your trike just let me know. At least you wouldn't have to travel far for it. It came off an ICE trike.


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## numbnuts (6 Feb 2016)

I was lucky to fit one of these 20T I now have 42 - 32 - 20


View: https://vimeo.com/7203326


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## Pikey (7 Feb 2016)

Always Cross said:


> Hi Pikey I'm the other one in your village I have a 22 tooth inner chain ring chain set can't remember what size the other ones rings if you want to try it on your trike just let me know. At least you wouldn't have to travel far for it. It came off an ICE trike.



Cheers for the offer @Always Cross , I might take you up on it depending upon how the deore chainset goes. I'm still running the stock Catrike one until midweek to give me taller gears as the kite is still on the rollers at the moment.

Which village are you in? Are you the triker that I have seen a couple of times in the morning riding down towards the A350?

If so, I might have to apologise as I was the one in the green 4x4 that passed you back a month or so before xmas. In my excitement at seeing another trike pilot, I wound the window down and hollered 'Love your trike, Ive got one too' or something similar, then pulled in just up the road to chat to you.
On reflection I probably just looked like another road rage to$$er as you probably wouldn't have heard what I was saying and I don't blame you for not chatting to randoms in 4x4's in laybys.


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## Pikey (7 Feb 2016)

PaulM said:


> 42T? You could have got a 48/36/26 HT2 Deore. This is what my Thorn Audax came with:
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-deore-m590-9-speed-triple-chainset/rp-prod40496
> 
> EDIT: I was forgetting, you need 10 speed though.



I did toy with swapping the whole trike over to 9 speed as I have my under used MTB with a shimano 9spd set up in the garage, I would have just needed to find a 9spd bar end shifter and that would have sorted it.

I may still transfer the hydraulic disc brakes over to the trike from it though, if they are compatible.


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## Pikey (7 Feb 2016)

numbnuts said:


> I was lucky to fit one of these 20T I now have 42 - 32 - 20
> 
> 
> View: https://vimeo.com/7203326




Seems like a lot of us want a smaller granny gear, maybe trike manufacturers will notice one day.


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## Smokin Joe (7 Feb 2016)

Pikey said:


> Seems like a lot of us want a smaller granny gear, maybe trike manufacturers will notice one day.


The 28t I now have on mine seems ok as I am not a twiddler, though I have yet to tackle anything serious. What I found ridiculous was the 52x11 top the Performer came with. You'd need to be a decent level racer to make proper use of that and I would think anyone who buys a recumbent trike has those days long behind them.


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## Always Cross (7 Feb 2016)

Hi I'm from Devizes. I saw another trike the other week going in the opposite direction and waved hello at one of the round abouts on London Rd if that wasn't you there must be 3 of us around.


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## Pikey (8 Feb 2016)

Always Cross said:


> Hi I'm from Devizes. I saw another trike the other week going in the opposite direction and waved hello at one of the round abouts on London Rd if that wasn't you there must be 3 of us around.



Hmmm, could be that there is three of us then 

I do go through Devizes on the London Road to get up to Avebury, that one of my favourite rides, but I haven't been up there since probably late October... So it could be the other guy.

I'm in Trowbridge, if you want a bit of company on a trike ride out drop me a pm.


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## fatjel (6 Mar 2016)

I'm seriously thinking about changing the crankset , cassette and chain on mine
The chain has many joins (7) and clonks atrociously and the crank arm are kinda long for me
The whole lot looks quite used so will change it all
At present the chain rings are 22/36/50 with a 9-32 9 speed
I'm thinking deore 26/36/48 and an 11-32 cassette
Me I'm worried abot not being high geared enough
I do have a 20" rear wheel which may / may not lower the gearing ?
Can buy a 22 ring for the deore so that is not a problem if it's needed
Will 48 - 11 be enough ?


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## flake99please (6 Mar 2016)

Personally I would keep your current chain ring set up.


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## Tigerbiten (6 Mar 2016)

fatjel said:


> Me I'm worried abot not being high geared enough
> ............
> Will 48 - 11 be enough ?


How often do you spin out.
A 48/9-20" is a 100" gear, which means you should spin out just over 30 mph.
A 48/11-20" is a 80" gear so you'll be spinning out ~25 mph.
So 3-4% down with a slight tailwind and you'll spin out.
So how do you ride.
Do you like to spin all the time or do you like coast down hill a lot.
One reason I have a silly high top gear (172") is I like to keep the legs moving.


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## Andrew1971 (6 Mar 2016)

Hi All
@fatjel I would keep the current gear setup. My KMX gearing is close to your's and i am slowly running out of gear's.
As you have 20inch rear wheel it's got spin alot more than a 26inch 700c rear wheel so need bigger chain ring's on crank set. i am finding 48t a little low. Dont forget you have not got your bent leg's yet.
Andrew


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## fatjel (6 Mar 2016)

That's very informative @Tigerbiten I've oft wondered about what this gear inches means.. Thank you 

Also interesting @Andrew1971 .. I am still getting used to the trike so the decision on gears can wait awhile
perhaps in time I shall need the higher gears . not this week tho lol

@flake99please I shall keep it for now but I have no real idea how many miles it has done
It won't last forever .. I tend to cycle about 1500km a month so the time will come
presumably a new 22/36/50 can be bought


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## Tigerbiten (6 Mar 2016)

With gearing the easy one to remember is ..........
If you spin a 100" gear at 100 rpm you will be doing 30 mph.

With a bent trike I'd always go for the maximum range which is easily possible.
So I try and stick with your original setup.
If not a 48-36-22 and a 9-32 is almost as good, you'll only loose around a mile per hour off the top end.
So for a rebuild
Around £30-£50 a 48-36-26 crankset with 165 mm cranks.
So add around £10 for a 22 tooth 64 BCD chainring.
About another £30 for three chains.
Then a new 9-32 Capreo cassette from ICE (at a pure guess around £50).
Also you may as well check your drive pulley bearings and get a new one as needed while your at it.


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## BlackPanther (7 Mar 2016)

Tigerbiten said:


> Then a new 9-32 Capreo cassette from ICE (at a pure guess around £50).



£94.83+p&p. Gulp.


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## Tigerbiten (7 Mar 2016)

BlackPanther said:


> £94.83+p&p. Gulp.


ok.
A Capreo cassette from Evans for £40.
Lockring removal tool for £10 from the net.
Take the cassette apart and remove the rivets which hold the 5 large sprockets together.
Keep the 15t and 26t sprockets.
A 9 speed Shimamo Alivio HG300 11-32 cassette for £15 to get the 18t, 21t and 32t large sprockets needed.
Rebuild with the new sprockets in place.
Total cost around £65.


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## Pikey (13 Mar 2016)

Now the weather has got less Baltic, I've been able to get the trike out on a few rides and took in the steepest hills I could find. Loving the new lower gearing, alright, I'm slower on the ascents but I've got more in the tank later on, or so I've found.

The only time I have spun out was on the way back down again, and tbh I was fine just coasting.

Just need to shorten the chain a bit more.


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## ufkacbln (13 Mar 2016)

My Gekko has a Schlumpf which gives a 34/85 chain ring with no change in the chain line

The rear end is a Rohloff, so again no change in the line.

It simplifies things


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## Tigerbiten (13 Mar 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> My Gekko has a Schlumpf which gives a 34/85 chain ring with no change in the chain line
> 
> The rear end is a Rohloff, so again no change in the line.
> 
> It simplifies things


I've ended up with twin chainrings on my Schlumpf.
It means the shift into overdrive is at a higher speed without loosing the silly low first gear.
Again a Rohloff on the back end.


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