# The CycleChat Large SUV Owners Club thread



## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

That is a thread for owners of large SUVs, not owners of SUVs who happen to be large. Although if you are large yourself that is no disqualification.

Qualification criteria for membership, and thus discussion of your vehicle:

Minimum weight: 1.75 tonnes.

Transmission: AWD, 4WD, either selectable or on demand.

Minimum ground clearance: 7 inches/175mm.

Ideally more than 4 cylinders and higher capacity than 2 litres, but we're flexible on this point as downsizing of engines is an insiduous modern disease.

I know there are Offender, Disco, Kodiaq, XC70 and XC90 owners out there, so slip on that lumberjack shirt and camo jacket, grow a beard, come in from the cold, and join the discussion.

Serving Suggestion:






*Please note - we're only interest in the safe, legal, and responsible use of our cars. There are plenty of twunts in Fiat 500's and Foci that drive like tits and that gets forgotten by the professionally offended and indignant. We do not condone the reckless, unnecessary, inappropriate or frivolous use of ANY car.*


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## Boopop (22 Nov 2021)

Can we add to the "Qualification criteria for membership" that posters have to state why they bought a large SUV, and why they feel they need it, and what sort of location they live in? (Rural vs sub-urban vs urban).

Given this is a cycling forum, I don't have much love for people who buy these just to take the kids to school in the suburbs, given that they are more dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians. Of course, those that actually have a need, or at least use it regularly off road for leisure, well it's a different story somewhat. I suspect the majority of these vehicles are being sold to people who don't need them however, as they're more profitable. The Ford Fiesta is no longer for sale in the US because it's not profitable.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities

For the record my dad drives a Volvo XC...something. He does live rurally though, however I suspect he could manage with just a 4WD car. Given his age (73) I wouldn't want him and his partner driving in snowy conditions anyway given it's the Peak District and when it does snow there they get it pretty severely. They always have plenty of food in too and can easily get more delivered anyway.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

Boopop said:


> Can we add to the "Qualification criteria for membership" that posters have to state why they bought a large SUV, and why they feel they need it, and what sort of location they live in? (Rural vs sub-urban vs urban).


I didn't buy it, it was bequeathed to me.

But this thread isn't to justify why you upgrade to a new smartphone as often as you can afford, or why people fly abroad on holiday, neither of which I do. You can start another thread elsewhere if justifying consumer choices is your fancy and I'd be happy to give my two penneth.

This is for owners to discuss experiences, trade tips and advice, complain about dog hairs in the carpet, that sort of thing.


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## Boopop (22 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> I didn't buy it, it was bequeathed to me.
> 
> But this thread isn't to justify why you upgrade to a new smartphone as often as you can afford, or why people fly abroad on holiday, neither of which I do. You can start another thread elsewhere if justifying consumer choices is your fancy and I'd be happy to give my two penneth.
> 
> This is for owners to discuss experiences, trade tips and advice, complain about dog hairs in the carpet, that sort of thing.



In which case my only tip would be to sell it and buy something more suitable for your actual needs and pocket the difference, unless you are planning on taking it off road regularly


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

I dont even take it _on _road regularly.

But on the rare occasions I veture forth it is well suited for a 6'4", 19 stone man, a dog, a child, a wife and her wheelchair. Certainly its much better suited than the supposedly environmentally friendly Polestar 2 that Mrs D bought. The Volvo's split tailgate make loading and unloading the wheelchair wonderfully easy, and neither she or I are getting any younger - im a big husky chap and wrestling a wheelchair in and out the boot of a golf or the like is no fun, and city cars requiring the back seat down are even worse.


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## Nebulous (22 Nov 2021)

I've never regarded these things as an SUV. It's a slightly elevated volvo estate. My sister-in-law had one and was loathe to part with it for sentimental reasons. 

It was a great vehicle, ate miles with ease, but also ate money. Suspension in particular was problematic, with several broken springs.


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## gbb (22 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> I didn't buy it, it was bequeathed to me.
> 
> But this thread isn't to justify why you upgrade to a new smartphone as often as you can afford, or why people fly abroad on holiday, neither of which I do. You can start another thread elsewhere if justifying consumer choices is your fancy and I'd be happy to give my two penneth.
> 
> This is for owners to discuss experiences, trade tips and advice, complain about dog hairs in the carpet, that sort of thing.


I don't have...and am unlikely ever to have, a large SUV. They're not for me, too tight to pay the higher running costs (fuel etc), but I don't buy into someone criticising someone else's choice to have one, anymore than someone's choice to have a van, Rolls Royce, Audi, whatever.
If it were mine, I wouldn't even try to defend it, why should you ?


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## Boopop (22 Nov 2021)

gbb said:


> I don't have...and am unlikely ever to have, a large SUV. They're not for me, too tight to pay the higher running costs (fuel etc), but I don't buy into someone criticising someone else's choice to have one, anymore than someone's choice to have a van, Rolls Royce, Audi, whatever.
> If it were mine, I wouldn't even try to defend it, why should you ?



At a bare minimum I quite happily criticise the motoring industry fo putting so much advertising money in to trying to convince everyone they should own them. It's plain fact that they're worse for the environment and more dangerous for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians, especially children. 

If SUV owners were a country they'd be the 7th highest emitting country in the world. I don't have a vendetta against all SUV owners but I'm not too fond of those that seek to own one just as some sort of status symbol without any need for one. I'd also like to see some sort of additional fee for driving them around zones with lots of pedestrians, especially areas with lots of schools.


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## fossyant (22 Nov 2021)

The problem is, lots of manufacturers have ditched traditional sized cars. Nissan ditched the Sunny/Almera and now the Pulsar for the Juke, and the Primera went the same way for the Qashqai. They don't have many normal cars other than the Micra, Leaf and a NEW electric SUV - normal cars just don't sell. Ford is stopping the Mondeo.

We have a Qashqai and a Primera. The Qashqai is actually shorter and slightly lighter than the salon, and better with fuel despite 'similar' power output and less aerodynamic. Whilst the SUV isn't quick, it's got a good driving position, and is more practial for loading stuff in - it will take a king sized divan. It's not great for loading 4 bikes on the roof as it's too high, hence keeping my old car running.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

It does irk me that manufacturers label pumped up 2wd drive hatchbacks as SUVs.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Nov 2021)

The Death Star !


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## MrGrumpy (22 Nov 2021)

Boopop said:


> At a bare minimum I quite happily criticise the motoring industry fo putting so much advertising money in to trying to convince everyone they should own them. It's plain fact that they're worse for the environment and more dangerous for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians, especially children.
> 
> If SUV owners were a country they'd be the 7th highest emitting country in the world. I don't have a vendetta against all SUV owners but I'm not too fond of those that seek to own one just as some sort of status symbol without any need for one. I'd also like to see some sort of additional fee for driving them around zones with lots of pedestrians, especially areas with lots of schools.


The cycling lobby do have a Vendetta against SUV drivers , I read about it all the time. Tarred all with the same brush that’s fact. Personally I don’t care what anyone drives and don’t judge. Each to their own . I like all cars , all shapes and sizes jeez I even like some of the EVs but not Tesla’s , got to drawn the line somewhere


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## Scotty55 (22 Nov 2021)

Got my Discovery 4 for the 7 seats as in-laws cannot drive due to FiL’s macular degeneration. Allows the family to go on holiday with luggage and dog and carrys the bike on the back. It was useful last winter as well when a delivery driver got stuck in the snow and I towed his van out.

The car is almost 12 years old - I have no idea what the environmental impact of scrapping it and getting an electric car would be.

And as for a danger to cyclists - I am quite happy to sit well back until I can pass safely. Added benefit that not much will try to pass a big Disco, so cyclist gets some extra protection.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Nov 2021)

Scotty55 said:


> Got my Discovery 4 for the 7 seats as in-laws cannot drive due to FiL’s macular degeneration. Allows the family to go on holiday with luggage and dog and carrys the bike on the back. It was useful last winter as well when a delivery driver got stuck in the snow and I towed his van out.
> 
> The car is almost 12 years old - I have no idea what the environmental impact of scrapping it and getting an electric car would be.
> 
> And as for a danger to cyclists - I am quite happy to sit well back until I can pass safely. Added benefit that not much will try to pass a big Disco, so cyclist gets some extra protection.


Yep they are super cars , spendy to keep running but there is not much they can’t do ! I remember towing my lad up the hill during beast from the east back in 2018 we got smacked in central Scotland . Didn’t even need to engage the fancy box of tricks of all terrain . Hooked up the car with that tow rope and we drove up the hill easy!


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## gbb (22 Nov 2021)

Boopop said:


> At a bare minimum I quite happily criticise the motoring industry fo putting so much advertising money in to trying to convince everyone they should own them. It's plain fact that they're worse for the environment and more dangerous for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians, especially children.
> 
> If SUV owners were a country they'd be the 7th highest emitting country in the world. I don't have a vendetta against all SUV owners but I'm not too fond of those that seek to own one just as some sort of status symbol without any need for one. I'd also like to see some sort of additional fee for driving them around zones with lots of pedestrians, especially areas with lots of schools.


My 'annoyance' is more principle based thing.
Its legal to own one, its as simple as that. Why draw the line at SUVs, why not Audi A8s, 7series BMW, vans, and any other large vehicle you can think of, theyre often all much bigger than a single person needs, often a family needs....
Freedom of choice, that's the thing you're challenging in reality.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yep they are super cars , spendy to keep running but there is not much they can’t do ! I remember towing my lad up the hill during beast from the east back in 2018 we got smacked in central Scotland . Didn’t even need to engage the fancy box of tricks of all terrain . Hooked up the car with that tow rope and we drove up the hill easy!


Same here. Some folk sneer at mine, but when it snows and mine is the only car in the street that get out of the village then suddenly everyone wants to know me.

While I never planned it that way it is handy. 3 unclassified roads in and out of the village. Of the 3 two flood when it rains heavily, necessitating going out the remaining road and doing a 20 mile detour unless yoy have a car with proper wading capacity. When its raining heavily Mrs D takes my car to work. Being minor roads they don't get gritted and have some nice gradients, so on the rare occasions it does snow a car with 4 driven wheels and 3Peaks rated winter tyres is very handy.

But it did 900 miles between MOTs, so churns out less sheet than a Prius that does 5000, and was one of the first models to make any serious attempt at pedestrian safety, has blind spot monotoring nearly 10 uears before any other model, so my conscience is pretty clear anyway.


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## HMS_Dave (22 Nov 2021)

I once had a Discovery V8. I also had a Mitsubishi Pajero. I learned whilst owning it, that it has a rather unfortunate and perhaps apt meaning in Spanish....

Anyway, that threw a rod and it is now probably in China, reincarnated as washing machines.

Here it is right after the breakdown.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

I can see an intercooler. 2800 diesel?


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## HMS_Dave (22 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> I can see an intercooler. 2800 diesel?


2.5, usually a reliable and "bullet proof" unit, used before and after the 2.8. I service them religiously, in fact, that breakdown was just after i replaced the diesel filter. Sadly, it seemed its previous owners neglected it. I took a gamble on it, not one that paid off...


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## HMS_Dave (22 Nov 2021)

Mind you, being the 2.5 it did struggle to maintain 70 on a steady incline...


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## Boopop (22 Nov 2021)

gbb said:


> My 'annoyance' is more principle based thing.
> Its legal to own one, its as simple as that. Why draw the line at SUVs, why not Audi A8s, 7series BMW, vans, and any other large vehicle you can think of, theyre often all much bigger than a single person needs, often a family needs....


Something like an Audi A8 or BMW 7 Series does not have a high bonnet, so is not as likely to kill pedestrians and children in a crash as SUVs...so I think that's an additional reason to dislike them vs just increase fuel use.



gbb said:


> Freedom of choice, that's the thing you're challenging in reality.



Pretty much. There was much controversy at the time when smoking indoors was banned. I see this as pretty much the same. You need an additional driving licence to drive trucks, why not pickup trucks? None of the children in this image are visible to the driver...yet we allow them (or at least similar) near our schools, not to mention all the black particulates in childrens' lungs and potentially the brain . All in the name of profit!








Drago said:


> has blind spot monotoring nearly 10 uears before any other model, so my conscience is pretty clear anyway.



Definitely think blind spot monitoring like that should be mandatory for vehicles like this, ideally with a big alert when there's something there - I don't know how such systems work though, I hope they make it pretty obvious when there's someone in a blind spot.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

I asked nicely once already. If you wish to start a discussion about the safety aspects then start your own thread.

This thread is for SUV owners. If you do not own one, do not plan to own one, and have nothing positive to contribute to this topic then start a thread elsewhere to discuss your grievances.

I don't nip repeatedly into your threads just to be awkward and contrary, so would ask you to return the courtesy.


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## Boopop (22 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> I asked nicely once already. If you wish to start a discussion about the safety aspects then start your own thread.
> 
> This thread is for SUV owners. If you do not own one, do not plan to own one, and have nothing positive to contribute to this topic then start a thread elsewhere to discuss your grievances.
> 
> I don't nip repeatedly into your threads just to be awkward and contrary, so would ask you to return the courtesy.



You did? Sorry, I genuinely missed it! Anyway, I don't think it's too contrary or awkward to question such vehicles even on an owner's thread when they're on a forum focussed on cycling (yes I know, on a sub-forum about motoring) especially when they're marketed to everyone rather than just those that actually need them. I do think reminding people who don't own them already but are pondering getting one of the harm they can cause in certain circumstances is a positive though, even if you don't think so...it's subjective of course. Anyway, I'll naff off now, thanks for putting up with me!


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2021)

XC70 for the family bus here. 

Because, amongst other things (like there is zero gritting or clearance on our roads) we live close to the HS2 and EWR rail intersection and the road conditions are truly appalling following 2 years of construction traffic. Notwithstanding that, I burst a tyre because I was forced off the road by an oncoming vehicle into a 12"+ deep crater caused by lorries destroying the verge which ripped the sidewall earlier this year (EWR made a 'goodwill' payment - eventually)


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

I win I think


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## MrGrumpy (23 Nov 2021)

SUV Owners  is the thread name  and not pickups ya hillbilly


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## tyred (23 Nov 2021)

I generally hate such things but must admit I would give garage space to an original Range Rover if my pockets were deeper.


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> SUV Owners  is the thread name  and not pickups ya hillbilly



definition
*SUV* sport utility vehicles

Mine is sporty, 0-60 6.9secs
utilitarian- go anywhere
its a vehicle


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## MrGrumpy (23 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> definition
> *SUV* sport utility vehicles
> 
> Mine is sporty, 0-60 6.9secs
> ...


It’s a pick-up  anyway what is it and this really doesn’t fit in with your save the planet persona


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## MrGrumpy (23 Nov 2021)

tyred said:


> I generally hate such things but must admit I would give garage space to an original Range Rover if my pockets were deeper.


A guy round the corner has an older RR that he’s doing up , it’s a V8 ! Doesn’t sound quite as nice as his tricked out Ford Mustang 5.0 V8 .


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> It’s a pick-up  anyway what is it and this really doesn’t fit in with your save the planet persona


It does if it doesn't go anywhere-much. That photo is over 10 years old. Last year 800 miles between MOTs


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> A guy round the corner has an older RR that he’s doing up , it’s a V8 ! Doesn’t sound quite as nice as his tricked out Ford Mustang 5.0 V8 .


Pah, puny engines


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## Bazzer (23 Nov 2021)

Not quite hitting the 2 litre capacity, but Mrs B has a Tiguan AWD. A comfortable car and certainly capable of handling the ground we have covered when we have left tarmac. 
In the floods a couple of years ago, it helped recover child 2 stranded in Wales when all public transport went AWOL. I still vividly recall driving along flooded roads, which with hindsight, were probably too deep in places, (headlight level), but it coped admirably.
The Tiguan replaced an old style Honda HRV written off by a texting delivery driver. 
Her reason for buying it is because she feels safer in it than a small car. She has been involved two serious car accidents, neither of which were her fault. The last had her and my youngest daughter, propelled in her VW Polo (3rd gen) at 40 mph across the central reservation of a dual carriageway into an oncoming lorry.


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## MrGrumpy (23 Nov 2021)

Quite like a Tiguan . If I sell the caravan , it’s probably a good size for what I need now.


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## gzoom (24 Nov 2021)

Our first large SUV, only lasted 6 4 months before a Seat Ibiza did a suicide run into the side of it and wrote both off..







Than I was in this for 6 months waiting for a replacement SUV to arrive the states...






47k miles on the current one is going strong, its our family hack and taken us all over the UK, and hopefully to just south of the Arctic circle next year .

We don't need a car this big, we don't need a car this fast (under 5 seconds to 60), a none paved car park is as 'off road' as we ever go, and we certainly don't need a car this expensive. But I absolutely love it.


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## Richard A Thackeray (24 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> View attachment 618968
> 
> 
> The Death Star !


When we stayed in North Queensferry, last October, we were at the far side of the bridge (not the other end)
Light was fading, but this was out balcony view!! (my Octavia in shot)


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## Richard A Thackeray (24 Nov 2021)

As @Drago , & some others know, I have a Kodiaq

I wouldn't have bought it, _but_, SWMBO wanted a caravan (*1*), & a larger one than I suggested
Hence, whilst my Octavia estate probably had the torque to deal with it, it didn't have enough mass/weight, to prevent the possibility of '_The Tail Wagging The Dog Syndrome'_, hence the Kodiaq (*2*)









2.0Tdi (so, just within Dragos parameters)
6-speed manual
4x4..... well, 'on demand' I believe, with a Haldex central-diff
It's essentially a 'jacked-up' Scout, & I know how capable they are
YAS (Yorkshire Ambulance Service) use Scouts as Fast Response/All-Weather cars, & I haven't spoken to a driver yet, who doesn't like them

It's a 5-seater version, not the 7-seater, & only 4" longer than its predecessor

It'll cope with a few lighter Byways, but I'm sure I'd not be allowed to take it to a 'pay & play day'
Even on the road-tyres fitted, it ought to do pretty well, with all four sharing the work, & the rears not just supporting the back-end

I see, on average; over the last 5,000 miles (or so) since buying it, about 53MPG
One trip last weekend, saw it return over 60MPG

*1. *We sold our last 'BWSOWs' back in mid-2006, it had been on site for a while, but she (&her parents) decided a 'Posh Portacabin' was better suited
This was the last one, with coincidentally, my last Land Rover



*2. *I did consider a few others; Ford Tourneo (the 5-seater), a VW T5, Volvo XC70
We just happened to see this, on a forecourt
(I wouldn't countenance anything by BuM-W)


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## MrGrumpy (24 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> When we stayed in North Queensferry, last October, we were at the far side of the bridge (not the other end)
> Light was fading, but this was out balcony view!! (my Octavia in shot)
> 
> View attachment 619149


Think I know that spot does that have a seating area down near the water looking east up the Forth?


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## Richard A Thackeray (24 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Think I know that spot does that have a seating area down near the water looking east up the Forth?


It's under the bridge, & the last house, at 'shore-level'
It was the house with the solar panels


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## MrGrumpy (24 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> It's under the bridge, & the last house, at 'shore-level'
> It was the house with the solar panels
> 
> View attachment 619163


Yep that’s the one ! N Queensferry is a lovely village .


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## keithmac (24 Nov 2021)

This is our current family car, Intelligent AWD with magnetic rear diff etc.

Chopped the Focus in when we bought the caravan.

Next car will be another Diesel SUV, there's a few in the running at the moment.


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## Richard A Thackeray (25 Nov 2021)

Does my ideal Land Rover count as a 'SUV' (silly American name)


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## Richard A Thackeray (25 Nov 2021)

With regard to the above, one of the converted/'custom chassis' vehicles has started to reappear on social media
(from Mallorca)

There was (still is?) a company in Doncaster(?) called '_Bettaweld'_, one of the company owners/managers built his own 101FC chassis, as they're straight-rails, not like every other LR with a chassis, that has to allow for axle-travel
The customs also incorporated coil-spring cups, radius-arm brackets, etc.....
Axles from a defunct Range Rover (1970 -1995 model), or any coil-sprung LR were used

The engine was moved rearwards for better weight distribution, power-steering added

I know that one was used for Competative Safaris. as I've seen it in action

4, possibly 5, were built
Some information here; https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/22315-101-body-on-rrc-chassis/


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## Richard A Thackeray (25 Nov 2021)

Was my last Landie a 'SUV'





LadyBower Reservoir, in the distance







Or its immediate predecessor?








Phil Llewellyn, the wonderful motoring writer, back in the 90s, called a Range Rover of the day (1970 - 1995 shape) a 'SPLUX', 'S_port-Luxury Vehicle'_


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## GilesM (26 Nov 2021)

I am not sure if my current SUV is officially big as defined in the OP, it's somewhere around 1.7 tons, but it happily meets all of the other criteria, especially the AWD drive when needed, still waiting for my new Defender, then I will definitely have a Big SUV.
I have really enjoyed the Evoque, a very clever car, press some buttons and it's happy to be driven like a hot hatch, then press some other buttons and it will get you through proper snow and slippery stuff with ease, and it's perfectly happy to sit at 120mph on the Autobahn in perfect quiet comfort.


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## mistyoptic (26 Nov 2021)

I only seem to have a problem with the ground clearance part of the spec. 3 litre, 4WD, sport ✔, utility ✔ - see photos, I think transporting that lot counts as utility. Only thing is , it’s a Beemer coupé


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## Richard A Thackeray (27 Nov 2021)

mistyoptic said:


> I only seem to have a problem with the ground clearance part of the spec. 3 litre, 4WD, sport ✔, utility ✔ - see photos, I think transporting that lot counts as utility. Only thing is , it’s a Beemer coupé


Sorry to read that
I hope you specified the extra cost indicators…….

Please tell us it’s not the ‘Medusa model’!, the ‘fugly’ X6


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## gzoom (27 Nov 2021)

mistyoptic said:


> I think transporting that lot counts as utility.



I hate to break to you, but that isn't a lot of stuff, I recon I could probably fit all that in your photo WITHOUT drooping the rear seats.

Not having to dismantle the toddler bed or take out the child seat is when moving stuff around houses is utility.....











Or carrying 6 people + 3 bikes.....


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## Drago (27 Nov 2021)

Well, the weather has turned crap and succenly us large SUV owners are feeling very smug and everyone wants to be our friend.


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## MrGrumpy (27 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Well, the weather has turned crap and succenly us large SUV owners are feeling very smug and everyone wants to be our friend.


Yep


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## MrGrumpy (27 Nov 2021)

gzoom said:


> I hate to break to you, but that isn't a lot of stuff, I recon I could probably fit all that in your photo WITHOUT drooping the rear seats.
> 
> Not having to dismantle the toddler bed or take out the child seat is when moving stuff around houses is utility.....
> 
> ...


Or carrying 7 adults plus luggage  that’s if we are playing top trumps


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## cosmicbike (27 Nov 2021)

I miss both my XC90's. Both Gen 1's in 163 & 205 BHP variants, but the motorhome is better for what we do. That said, I'm looking at XC70's to replace the 240. No XC90 for me now, too high for tired old hounds to jump into.


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## mistyoptic (27 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Sorry to read that
> I hope you specified the extra cost indicators…….
> 
> Please tell us it’s not the ‘Medusa model’!, the ‘fugly’ X6


My indicators work better than most Audi and Merc ones 😃. Certainly not a fugly (agreed) X6. It’s a 4 series coupé


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## Richard A Thackeray (27 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Does my ideal Land Rover count as a 'SUV' (silly American name)
> 
> 
> View attachment 619286



*Ker-Ching!!!!* 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1851853017...-Ki0wCpPYIweI0ok7k4eXw_PYs6wMhXgAJutDT02oJRcA


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## Drago (27 Nov 2021)

cosmicbike said:


> I miss both my XC90's. Both Gen 1's in 163 & 205 BHP variants, but the motorhome is better for what we do. That said, I'm looking at XC70's to replace the 240. No XC90 for me now, too high for tired old hounds to jump into.


Mine is the inbetweeney 185. Being the R Design it has the sports chassis (ie, now steers round corners properly, but is a bit harsh on the bumps) and is a whole 2cm lower. It also has the quad exhaust to is the one model that can't have a towbar fitted.

I sold my old lofted L200 because Mrs D struggled to climb in and out of it, but she managed ok in her old mk2 '90 and in mine. Indeed, considering it feels like a cyberpunk stream engine after travelling in her car she actually likes driving my '90 and regularly TWOC's it.

I like the XC70's muchly, and its possible to get some tidy ones for reasonable money. Im sure I don't need to tell you that mileage isn't such an issue if it has a good history. With those 5 pot engines, Haldex, etc, you cant entrust them to Fred In A Shed who services Nan's Corsa. Hopefully you indulge soon and titillate us with pictures.


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Well, the weather has turned crap and succenly us large SUV owners are feeling very smug and everyone wants to be our friend.



Unfortunately, many owners of them (and any other cars) can't actually drive in slush.


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## Drago (27 Nov 2021)

Why would the owners of these mighty leviathans want to demean themselves by driving in mere slush? Anything south a blizzard is beneath us, best left to the normies, which is what we call regular car drivers.


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## gzoom (28 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Or carrying 7 adults plus luggage  that’s if we are playing top trumps



Interms of pure 'Utility' you cannot really beat a van. This thing physically is smaller than our SUV but seated 9 + luggage....However pedal to the floor it struggled to go over 100km/hr. It was however very cheap to rent, only a tiny bit more expensive than a Fiesta .






However on a day like today you need power doors (having to physically touch the outside of a car is just so crude ) , every seat heated, karaoke on demand via the 17inch central screen to entertain x 3 5 year olds. 70 miles covered today with a total fuel cost of roughly £5 even with the record electricity prices we are seeing at present. Cannot really complain about the running costs of our SUV .


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## BianchiVirgin (28 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> That is a thread for owners of large SUVs, not owners of SUVs who happen to be large. Although if you are large yourself that is no disqualification.
> 
> Qualification criteria for membership, and thus discussion of your vehicle:
> 
> ...


I'm in D5 XC70.  
Need a decent estate ✅
Very rural roads with no gritting ✅
Can carry us 5, luggage and dog and lots of bikes✅
Can tow over 2 tonnes ✅
Super safety record ✅
Comfy, refined and has most creature comforts required ✅
Super in snow and general kack weather✅
Equally fine in good weather✅
Doesn't break or rust✅
Looks good✅
Has the best HID headlights ever fitted to a modern car✅
Downside? Mediocre fuel economy. And there's nothing even close to it in EV territory yet so I'll be hanging on to it a while yet.


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## MrGrumpy (28 Nov 2021)

BianchiVirgin said:


> I'm in D5 XC70.
> Need a decent estate ✅
> Very rural roads with no gritting ✅
> Can carry us 5, luggage and dog and lots of bikes✅
> ...


Do like the look of the Volvo estates . Did consider an XC90 but could not find a good one. The new model looks very nice lovely interior. However ended up in a Discovery which was always what I hankered for.


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## Drago (28 Nov 2021)

BianchiVirgin said:


> I'm in D5 XC70.
> Need a decent estate ✅
> Very rural roads with no gritting ✅
> Can carry us 5, luggage and dog and lots of bikes✅
> ...


Fine machine Sir!

If @Bonefish Blues gets one we'll have to start a forum Volvo XC club.


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## Bonefish Blues (28 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Fine machine Sir!
> 
> If @Bonefish Blues gets one we'll have to start a forum Volvo XC club.


I done got one - Mrs B uses it most of the time, given her proclivity for vehicular - landscape interfacing. I make do with an S60 in winter and a C70 in summer.


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## BianchiVirgin (28 Nov 2021)

Mine's a very nice SE Lux that I bought in Bradford with 64k miles on it. I've only covered about 18k in 3.5 years so it's not exactly overworked. TBH we could manage without it probably but I want it and I like it so hah.


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## Drago (29 Nov 2021)

Well, conditions here are very, very icy and there are minor accumulations of snow in places.

So Mrs D has started the week by TWOC'ing my XC90 (R Design SE Premium with nav, comms, family and premium sound packs) and leaving me with her Scalextric car. To be fair the stability, chassis and and anti-rollover aids are first class on the XC, even after all these years, and with the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 boots its perfect for this sort of weather so I don't begrudge her taking it.

Another win for the large SUV


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## Hicky (29 Nov 2021)

Pressing the "W" button when its snowy and not having to be too concerned about the conditions under the wheels I'm a happy bunny....XC's are the biz.....along with the heated seat


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## Drago (29 Nov 2021)

Oh aye, W is great. Starts the transmission in 3rd, softens the throttle response, brilliant tool. But then it would be, because its a Volvo.


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## BianchiVirgin (29 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Oh aye, W is great. Starts the transmission in 3rd, softens the throttle response, brilliant tool. But then it would be, because its a Volvo.


 I don't have a W. But I do have cop on and a right foot that behaves.


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## Bonefish Blues (29 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Oh aye, W is great. Starts the transmission in 3rd, softens the throttle response, brilliant tool. But then it would be, because its a Volvo.


With you on the former, don't think the latter re throttle response is the case - it's simply that it starts in the higher gear (unless you're too heavy on the throttle, in which case it'll start in the lower gears as normal, because it assumes you want. to do that) so the throttle's blunted just because - iyswim.


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## Colin Grigson (30 Nov 2021)

This car was the love of my life, bought new, it was everything I ever wanted in a car for my family. Utterly bomb-proof, never let us down no matter how inhospitable the conditions. Never managed to get stuck no matter how hard we tried. It was a lot of money to have tied up in a vehicle so after 5 years ownership I sold it …. and I’ve regretted it ever since. It felt like the safest thing on the planet.


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## Drago (30 Nov 2021)

Funnily enough Griggers there was a brand new one outside the village shop the other day and it caused a strange stirring in my Y fronts!

Another road trip tomorrow, 350 miles in 2 days. Ive fuelled the old bus up ready, loaded the CD changer, got my travel mug on stand by. A nice couple of hours in comfort wafting along in my '90.


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## BianchiVirgin (30 Nov 2021)

Colin Grigson said:


> This car was the love of my life, bought new, it was everything I ever wanted in a car for my family. Utterly bomb-proof, never let us down no matter how inhospitable the conditions. Never managed to get stuck no matter how hard we tried. It was a lot of money to have tied up in a vehicle so after 5 years ownership I sold it …. and I’ve regretted it ever since. It felt like the safest thing on the planet.
> View attachment 620068
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, always liked those but mind numbingly expensive 😬


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## Grant Fondo (30 Nov 2021)

never been an owner, but had the good fortune of driving a Dodge Durango 5.7 V8 halfway across the States with quite a bit off-road a while back, brilliant fun.


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## KneesUp (30 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Well, conditions here are very, very icy and there are minor accumulations of snow in places.
> 
> So Mrs D has started the week by TWOC'ing my XC90 (R Design SE Premium with nav, comms, family and premium sound packs) and leaving me with her Scalextric car. To be fair the stability, chassis and and anti-rollover aids are first class on the XC, even after all these years, and with the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 boots its perfect for this sort of weather so I don't begrudge her taking it.
> 
> Another win for the large SUV


We had a few inches of snow here, and my area is lots of narrow, hilly, untreated Victorian streets. I had no problem in my 2wd Civic because it has appropriate tyres. The C1 was even better. I guess having to start and stop ‘only’ 1300kg or only 900kg is easier than your 2+ tonnes. I wonder what the net benefit of more mass / drive to two more wheels actually is?


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## Drago (30 Nov 2021)

Having owned 3 x 107s I can confirm the XC90 eats them alive in the snow for going, turning and stopping. No getting away from the drivetrain, winter transmission mode, 3 Peaks rated tyres (our last 107 was also on all weather rubber), and the extremely effective multiple chassis aids. Wasted on a mere "few inches", but then look how badly the masses struggle with a mere dusting.

Not really surprising considering where it was designed and built, with development testing actually taking place in Kiruna, Lapland, North of the arctic circle. They are the only company to test all models down to -40°C.

And all the while my heated massage seats were cosseting me beautifully.

Having said all that, low mass and skinny rubber do make the 107/C1/Aygo triumvirate very good in the snow, well above average. Sadly, the moment it gets rammed down and becomes ice the story isn't so rosy.

But great little cars, love them.


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## BianchiVirgin (30 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> Having said all that, low mass and skinny rubber do make the 107/C1/Aygo triumvirate very good in the snow, well above average. Sadly, the moment it gets rammed down and becomes ice the story isn't so rosy.
> 
> But great little cars, love them.


Try crashing one and see who comes out of it.


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## keithmac (30 Nov 2021)

Colin Grigson said:


> This car was the love of my life, bought new, it was everything I ever wanted in a car for my family. Utterly bomb-proof, never let us down no matter how inhospitable the conditions. Never managed to get stuck no matter how hard we tried. It was a lot of money to have tied up in a vehicle so after 5 years ownership I sold it …. and I’ve regretted it ever since. It felt like the safest thing on the planet.
> View attachment 620068
> 
> 
> ...



They are in their own category of cool!, lovely machine there.


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## Colin Grigson (1 Dec 2021)

keithmac said:


> They are in their own category of cool!, lovely machine there.


Thanks Keith, they have an almost cult like following, and having owned one, I actually get it. It was the only car I’ve had that was perfect off-road, around town and on long motorway trips - faultless.


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## Hicky (1 Dec 2021)

Colin Grigson said:


> This car was the love of my life, bought new, it was everything I ever wanted in a car for my family. Utterly bomb-proof, never let us down no matter how inhospitable the conditions. Never managed to get stuck no matter how hard we tried. It was a lot of money to have tied up in a vehicle so after 5 years ownership I sold it …. and I’ve regretted it ever since. It felt like the safest thing on the planet.
> View attachment 620068
> 
> 
> ...


I drove one of these previously however it had been maintained by the LAD and thrashed by hundreds of privates in a very hot and dusty land. Probably not a fair review. I didn’t like it but then again the v8 snatch wasn't a bag of fun. 🤣
Clearly yours is a different beast. I see one often in Mcr city centre. It always draws glances.


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Oh aye, W is great. Starts the transmission in 3rd, softens the throttle response, brilliant tool. But then it would be, because its a Volvo.



I had an XC90 as a rent a car when working in Hamburg recently, it's certainly big and very comfy inside and all very competent, but not really for me, maybe I still have the image of 1970 three box Volvos in my head with the lights stuck on all of the time, they certainly were not cool.


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> We had a few inches of snow here, and my area is lots of narrow, hilly, untreated Victorian streets. I had no problem in my 2wd Civic because it has appropriate tyres. The C1 was even better. I guess having to start and stop ‘only’ 1300kg or only 900kg is easier than your 2+ tonnes. I wonder what the net benefit of more mass / drive to two more wheels actually is?



If you ever get to drive a 730kg Lotus Elise on hardpacked snow, you'd soon discover the problems associated with very little weight, pulling away and traction was okay, stopping, especially downhill was not fun. An under pant damaging experience.


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## KneesUp (1 Dec 2021)

GilesM said:


> If you ever get to drive a 730kg Lotus Elise on hardpacked snow, you'd soon discover the problems associated with very little weight, pulling away and traction was okay, stopping, especially downhill was not fun. An under pant damaging experience.


That absolutely sounds like it had the wrong tyres on rather than an issue with the weight. The logical extension of your argument is that it would be impossible to ride a bike in the snow, and that an articulated lorry is the perfect vehicle for the snow.


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> That absolutely sounds like it had the wrong tyres on rather than an issue with the weight. The logical extension of your argument is that it would be impossible to ride a bike in the snow, and that an articulated lorry is the perfect vehicle for the snow.



It definitely had the wrong tyres on, but the very light weight is a real problem when stopping (or trying to stop), the tyres just don't have the pressure on them to dig in to the snow, if you compare the Elise to a normal weight rear wheel drive car with similar summer tyres in the snow (for example a BMW 3 series), you would discover the Lotus can get moving much more easily than the BMW, but I can assure you that the stopping is considerably worse, but don't take my word for it, have a go, but not near me or with my Elise it stays inside the garage when the roads are white. 
I think riding a bike down hill on hard packed snow is close to impossible, unless you've got studded tyres.


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## Gillstay (1 Dec 2021)

GilesM said:


> It definitely had the wrong tyres on, but the very light weight is a real problem when stopping (or trying to stop), the tyres just don't have the pressure on them to dig in to the snow, if you compare the Elise to a normal weight rear wheel drive car with similar summer tyres in the snow (for example a BMW 3 series), you would discover the Lotus can get moving much more easily than the BMW, but I can assure you that the stopping is considerably worse, but don't take my word for it, have a go, but not near me or with my Elise it stays inside the garage when the roads are white.
> I think riding a bike down hill on hard packed snow is close to impossible, unless you've got studded tyres.


That is because the tyres are wide. If you had thin tyres on the Elise it would be fine. We challenged a guy in a landrover in deep snow and got further than he did, we were in a lancia Fulvia. Surprised us both.


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## Bonefish Blues (1 Dec 2021)

185/55 R15s at the front & 205/50 R16s at the rear (on OE 5-spokes) aren't exactly bloated mind.


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## Drago (2 Dec 2021)

Standard Defender type Land rovers are not the best in the snow. Far better than a saloon car, but as fourbies go not brilliant. The drivetrain is so badly balanced that the torque delivery to different wheels differs wildly as standard. Something like a Subaru Forester, like for like with tyres, is one of the best in the snow because the asymmetric drivetrain pumps out perfectly equal torque to each side of the car.


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## GilesM (2 Dec 2021)

Gillstay said:


> That is because the tyres are wide. If you had thin tyres on the Elise it would be fine. We challenged a guy in a landrover in deep snow and got further than he did, we were in a lancia Fulvia. Surprised us both.



Again, the getting going is no problem in the Elise, it's the stopping, 175 on the front as standard for the K Series powered Elise S2 are not exactly wide, it's also partly due to the suspension setup and the rigidity of the chassis. Of course the tyres do make a huge impact, we have winter boots on my better half's Mini Roadster, as long as the snow is not too deep (ground clearance is not huge) then it seems to get through happily and stops when required, but still no where near as good as the Evoque, press the snow and ice button, and it seems to just go through anything, a few years ago we had the pleasure of driving through about 10 inches of unpisted snow of the Dukes Pass, obviously we failed to see the road closed sign, but it was a lot of fun, and the hill descent control is quite amazing.


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## fossyant (2 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Standard Defender type Land rovers are not the best in the snow. Far better than a saloon car, but as fourbies go not brilliant. The drivetrain is so badly balanced that the torque delivery to different wheels differs wildly as standard. Something like a Subaru Forester, like for like with tyres, is one of the best in the snow because the asymmetric drivetrain pumps out perfectly equal torque to each side of the car.



How dare you  @I like Skol come and put him right !


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## I like Skol (2 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> How dare you  @I like Skol come and put him right !


By far the biggest problem (if it can be called that) is the drivers, who often think 'it's a Landrover, it can go anywhere' despite themselves having zero driving ability or awareness of reality.
Contrary to Drago's guff and nonsense about the Defender drivetrain there is nothing wrong with it for what it is. It is neither unbalanced or wildly unstable, for a basic, open drivetrain. In the hands of a competent driver it can do very well in the snow.

I tend to head out in my wife's 2wd car when it snows. It is much more comfortable sitting in the leather heated seats of her Audi than in my draughty Landrover when stuck in endless queues of of floundering cars/drivers everytime half an inch of the white stuff falls.


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## Drago (2 Dec 2021)

The Defender drivetrain is excellent. No guff.

Its just that of the breed its one of the less capable ones in the snow. Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not) - far from it, theyre just not optimum for those conditions. 

By unbalanced I mean symply mean different length driveshafts to every single wheel - in a powerful FWD car this starts to show up as torque steer. On a fourbie it means it is difficult to get an exactly balanced level of force to each corner of the car, so in conditions where finesse of balamce and grip is required you cant get optimum traction without resorting to electronics, something the defender lacks.

Of course, in mud, climbing, etc, where brute force traction is required thats not a consideration, but brute force and snow just have you digging yourself in.

Before I moved into SAR I was in our local 4x4 Response group, and on like for like tyres the two Foresters in the group ate everything in the snow. We did some digging, and the answer is the asymmetric drivetrain simply makes it particularly well suited to those sort of conditions, is all. Equal power to the wheels on each side, equal inetial forces through equal length driveshafts, none of this is really very surprising once one mulls the desiable characteristics for laying down power on a surface that alternates between unstable and low friction.

I'm sure youre Google works as well as mine if you wanted to read up on it.

In fact, if you want to hear guff then listen to people prattling on about how all conquering the series and defender are off road. They are very good, but theyre not peerless. The last pay and play I did at Whaddon before I sold my pickup one of the lads with a tricked out defender was giving it the large along these lines and making snidey comments about a standard land Cruiser that was present. Yet despite his best efforts to shake it off the Bruiser went everywhere the the expensively modded defender did, and made said defender driver look a bit silly.

Land Rover - great bits of kit, but they still put their trousers on one leg at a time. Sadly, Mrs D hates them, and ive been banned from owning any more of them, not even a Rangie CSK  Something to do with spending more time on the driveway than with her.


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## I like Skol (2 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> The Defender drivetrain is excellent. No guff.
> 
> Its just that of the breed its one of the less capable ones in the snow. Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not) - far from it, theyre just not optimum for those conditions.
> 
> ...


I'm tired, I work 12hr days and I really can't be bothered writing a 4 page technical essay explaining what is wrong about what you are saying here Drago, but with just a little internet research you could work it out for yourself. Start with that Landrover torque steer nonsense.....



Drago said:


> but as fourbies go not brilliant. The drivetrain is so badly balanced that the torque delivery to different wheels differs wildly as standard.





Drago said:


> Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not)


Ok, unstable is maybe not the right word due to its other connotations, I was just trying to summarise your erroneous and inaccurate description of the Defender drivetrain.


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## mustang1 (6 Dec 2021)

GilesM said:


> If you ever get to drive a 730kg Lotus Elise on hardpacked snow, you'd soon discover the problems associated with very little weight, pulling away and traction was okay, stopping, especially downhill was not fun. An under pant damaging experience.


... or a 500kg Caterham 7 on a wet race track.


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## Venod (6 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> That absolutely sounds like it had the wrong tyres on rather than an issue with the weight. The logical extension of your argument is that it would be impossible to ride a bike in the snow, and that an articulated lorry is the perfect vehicle for the snow.



This is probably correct.

I have owned MK1 and MK2 Freelander's which were very good in the snow, I have also owned a Citreon 2CV very light car very narrow tyres, it was brilliant in the snow and a nice simple car to work on.


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## Drago (6 Dec 2021)

I think the argument has its limits. As aforementioned by my good self, mocern SUVs have chassis and stability systems to safely manage their bulk that normies don't have, and this does indeed usually translate to more effective btaking and better directional ability in the snow. But thats not an excuse to take the pith though, because get it wrong itll still hurt.


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## Richard A Thackeray (6 Dec 2021)

Venod said:


> I have also owned a Citreon 2CV very light car very narrow tyres, it was brilliant in the snow and a nice simple car to work on.


My mother used to own a 'R' (97?) Corsa
For a while, one winter it was at out house
Skinny tyres (145 section?) & not a lot of weight (or torque) made it great in fresh snow




Drago said:


> I think the argument has its limits. As aforementioned by my good self, mocern SUVs have chassis and stability systems to safely manage their bulk that normies don't have, and this does indeed usually translate to more effective btaking and better directional ability in the snow.
> But thats not an excuse to take the pith though, because get it wrong itll still hurt.



WIth appropriate tyres & careful driving
As Scottie said; 








In his excellent book; _'The Land Rover Experience_, Tom Sheppard goes over it in detail
Whilst not using Scotties phrasing, it's close to it!


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## Drago (6 Dec 2021)

I actually have Tim Sheppards book. The problem there is that it was written in 1993 when none of these things existed. The Defender and D1 are relatively crude, ponderous things, and their, mass and architecture to indeed put them at some disadvantage when stopping (not necessarily when steering). However, the state of the art has moved on greatly in 3 decades and such vehicles now have the benefit of systems that were not available then. What may have had a grain of truth 3 decades ago is no longer valid.

A car that can selectively drive individual wheels, can selectively brake individual wheels, can alter steering weight on the fly, and that can even (on some really modern tin like the current XC90) actively alter damping and spring rates on individual corners of the vehicle stop and corner in the snow better than one that cannot do those things. There is no two ways about it. Even on my old bucket, the stability systems are such that it is almost impossible to overturn an XC90, wet or dry - sadly not true of, say, a Corsa or Micra.

I live next to a forest, and when it snows plenty of cars end up in ditches. Theyre always FWD hatchmobiles with the occasional 3 series thrown in for variety. Never a proper SUV. Indeed, my step brother regularly patrols in his Shogun and charges the hapless drivers 50 quid to tow them out. So not only can normie drivers not go round corners in those conditions, but they have to rely on an SUV to rescue them.

But as you say, appropriate tyres and a driver with half a braincell. Even the best equipped SUV won't save the proverbial Roger Ramjet from his own idiocy.

The one inescapable truth is that, according to Thatcham Research, no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's


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## Richard A Thackeray (6 Dec 2021)

@Drago 
Yes, as good as Tom Sheppard is, & he's not far behind Ranulph Fiennes the ranks of UK explorers, he could only go on the technology available at that time
Then again, most 4x4/SUVs were of the same mechanical limitations (the P38 RR was available, & covered in that book)

There were later editions printed, that covered the L322 RR ('series 3', to me)


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## Drago (6 Dec 2021)

The be fair to the illustrious Mr Sheppard, while I have never been up Darien's Gap (paging @Fnaar !) I was a police Class 1 driver. As such have hammered a P38 rangie V8 in the wet, dry, wind and indeed snow, fully laden and flat out (indicated 135 but I think 125 is probably nearer the truth) on public roads, speeds and conditions that he has never experienced. With that in mind I have just a little authority on the matter myself, certainly on their behaviour at the extremes of performance.

Useless fact. Even at early 2000's prices the P38's on the fleet used to guzzle their own value in fuel every year.


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## Gillstay (6 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> The be fair to the illustrious Mr Sheppard, while I have never been up Darien's Gap (paging @Fnaar !) I was a police Class 1 driver. As such have hammered a P38 rangie V8 in the wet, dry, wind and indeed snow, fully laden and flat out (indicated 135 but I think 125 is probably nearer the truth) on public roads, speeds and conditions that he has never experienced. With that in mind I have just a little authority on the matter myself, certainly on their behaviour at the extremes of performance.
> 
> Useless fact. Even at early 2000's prices the P38's on the fleet used to guzzle their own value in fuel every year.


Between the P38's and the V8 ambulances Surrey had, the carbon footprint must have been quite outstanding.


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## KneesUp (6 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> The one inescapable truth is that, according to Thatcham Research, no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's


And what is the data for the Peel P50 (not an SUV)? ;-)


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## swansonj (6 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> ...., no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's


Do you happen to have the data on how many people, and perhaps specifically pedestrians and cyclists, have been killed_ by_ an XC90 or Q7?


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## Drago (9 Dec 2021)

Im quite liking this...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/road-tests/356804/new-ford-bronco-2022-review-pictures

If nothing else its a nice styling job, inspired by themoriginal 60's Bronco. Much better looking than many other retro styled cars like the MINI.


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## Bonefish Blues (9 Dec 2021)

Wonder if OJ Simpson has ordered one?


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## Drago (9 Dec 2021)

The long range fuel tank option is called "The OJ" in his honour.


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## Drago (9 Dec 2021)

swansonj said:


> Do you happen to have the data on how many people, and perhaps specifically pedestrians and cyclists, have been killed_ by_ an XC90 or Q7?


Less than by Corsas and Fiestas if one takes the NCAP vulnerable road user ratings as a measure.


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## KneesUp (9 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Less than by Corsas and Fiestas if one takes the NCAP vulnerable road user ratings as a measure.


Rather than the actual figures. I guess the key one would be deaths per vehicle anyway.


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## Richard A Thackeray (10 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> The be fair to the illustrious Mr Sheppard, while I have never been up Darien's Gap (paging @Fnaar !) I was a police Class 1 driver. As such have hammered a P38 rangie V8 in the wet, dry, wind and indeed snow, fully laden and flat out (indicated 135 but I think 125 is probably nearer the truth) on public roads, speeds and conditions that he has never experienced. With that in mind I have just a little authority on the matter myself, certainly on their behaviour at the extremes of performance.
> 
> Useless fact. Even at early 2000's prices the P38's on the fleet used to guzzle their own value in fuel every year.


RRs were undoubtedly damned good at the job, & proved themselves many times over in a Traffic role


This is a cracking film, I remember watching it many years ago, about the M62
Eg, 'twin RR tow' of an artic at about 47:00

Sadly, I doubt many Officers nowadays would deal with the chump at the end, so 'bluntly' from about 49:00


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvw9DNQWymo



*As An Aside'*
A few years ago, when Vauxhall first brought the Monaro across, West Yorkshire Traffic had one on test
(at that point, it was the coupe, not the later saloon)

The crews loved it, the mechanics loved it
Apparantly, every time it was started up at the garage, or workshops, it emptied all of the offices due to the sound
(the neighbour of a friend of mine, had a VXR derivative, & that sounded awesome - she didn't like it, as it made her windows vibrate )

Sadly, the bean-counters didn't like it, due to the rarity (spares backup, may have been in doubt??) , the fuel consumption compared to the Bum-W 330s/etc.....

If Vauxhall had brought over the saloon first off, or the estate, we might have seen them everywhere instead of Bum-Ws??


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## Drago (10 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> Rather than the actual figures. I guess the key one would be deaths per vehicle anyway.


That would see the Corsa and Fiesta in the dock on murder charges then. Its difficult to see how these SUVs with significantly better pedestrian safety characteristics would be more deadly than those with poorer attributes in that area.

Perhaps you coukd elaborate as to how it could be otherwise?

As aforementioned, by all means start whatever thread you like to berate planet killing SUVs. As also aforementioned by myself, this thread is for those that own them, run them and like them, not for people who are bitter because they can't afford one themselves. I don't disrupt your threads, please extend me the same courtesy in return.

@Richard A Thackeray yes, we used to pop the P38 into low range and it could clear a lorry or a coach a short distance,msufficient tomre-open a carriageway. The cheaper X5's were all well and good - and actually surprisingly capable off the tarmac - but could not do this. So, as well as paying recovery agents to take vehickes away they also had to start paying them to clear the carriageway first, and doubtless ended spending more than theyd saved by ditching the Rangies in the first place.


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## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)




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## Richard A Thackeray (10 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> @Richard A Thackeray yes, we used to pop the P38 into low range and it could clear a lorry or a coach a short distance,msufficient tomre-open a carriageway. The cheaper X5's were all well and good - and actually surprisingly capable off the tarmac - but could not do this. So, as well as paying recovery agents to take vehickes away they also had to start paying them to clear the carriageway first, and doubtless ended spending more than theyd saved by ditching the Rangies in the first place.


@Drago


There's another wonderfully old school Officer, at about 25;00, informing the driver of a Vauxhall Cavalier that he'd driven through a road-closure

Agree with all of your comments, or indeed move a car, that is on its roof, or has all 4 wheels locked due to RTC damage

I have this book, on my shelves!

Looking west towards Scammonden Bridge
M62, between jct 22 & 23
The spoil taken from the cutting was used to help construct Scammonden Dam, 'next door' (that also carries the M62)




The frontispiece is this picture


----------



## Drago (10 Dec 2021)

Ah, marvellous Mr T. Not seen either of those. May have to scout the bay of e.



MrGrumpy said:


> View attachment 621369



Excellent work Grumpers. An inconvenient truth for the haters.


----------



## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Ah, marvellous Mr T. Not seen either of those. May have to scout the bay of e.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent work Grumpers. An inconvenient truth for the haters.


It is surprising and contrary to what you read! I think there is a bit of green eyed monster in some minds !


----------



## swansonj (10 Dec 2021)

It is indeed a courtesy not to derail someone else's thread. It is only a courtesy, not a rule - you don't control the thread, and if someone objects to what you wanted the thread to be about, you can't stop them saying so (it's kind of the essence of posting your views on an internet forum that people might react to them...). But it's a courtesy nonetheless and the world is often a better place for following courtesies. I find the general tone of this thread pretty objectionable in the context of a cycling forum. But you'll have noticed that I mostly just sat on my hands, in that spirit of courtesy. It was the post about no-one having being killed _in_ certain SUVs that seemed to me to embody such cyclist-unfriendly attitudes that I posted a single (pretty mild, I thought) response. I do not intend to turn this thread into a punch up about the overall merits/evils of SUVs and I am not participating in the subsequent discussion about pedestrian safety ratings.


----------



## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)

swansonj said:


> It is indeed a courtesy not to derail someone else's thread. It is only a courtesy, not a rule - you don't control the thread, and if someone objects to what you wanted the thread to be about, you can't stop them saying so (it's kind of the essence of posting your views on an internet forum that people might react to them...). But it's a courtesy nonetheless and the world is often a better place for following courtesies. I find the general tone of this thread pretty objectionable in the context of a cycling forum. But you'll have noticed that I mostly just sat on my hands, in that spirit of courtesy. It was the post about no-one having being killed _in_ certain SUVs that seemed to me to embody such cyclist-unfriendly attitudes that I posted a single (pretty mild, I thought) response. I do not intend to turn this thread into a punch up about the overall merits/evils of SUVs and I am not participating in the subsequent discussion about pedestrian safety ratings.


No arguments from me on that front however it’s well been established in some of my social media circles the view that big bad SUVs , 4x4 are the devil incarnate. A quick google and even im surprised at what I’ve found  .


----------



## Drago (10 Dec 2021)

Certainly in the old days of ladder chassis, leaf springs and cliff face front ends, that was likely true.

The reality has since moved well on. Bigger vehicles have space to incorporate energy absorving structures, devices to deflect pedestrians upwards and not under the wheels, all sorts of collision avoidance gear that small cars have neither the space nor the budget to accommodate. Hence smaller cars usually score relatively poorly in the vulnerable road user category, and their occupants themselves are more likely to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Indeed, the XC90 was the first mass produced car _ever_ to make any real research and design effort into pedestian safety. Not a hatch, not a city car, but a dirty great 2.2 tonne SUV led the world in the field of vulnerabke road user safety. The very vehicles you vilify were at the forefront of the effort to peotect those outside the vehicle.

I drive my enormous SUV sparingly, and with great respect and consideration towards cyclists. I daily see plenty of hatchback drivers who do neither of those things - being forced to drive a Golf or Focus because you're poor does not make you safer or any more righteous. Indeed, Grumpers has already reasonably demonstrated that the situation is the opposite to that which you perceive.

Don't like it? Then take your bleating and start your own thread, because that is not what this thread is for.


----------



## Hacienda71 (10 Dec 2021)

Just for balance....
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities
Now back to talking about your lovely big SUVs


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## Drago (10 Dec 2021)

Im not too keen on the colour, but what the cost of a respray against the cost of buying it in the first place?

https://www.theparking-cars.co.uk/used-cars-detail/hummer-h1/5VNV1YA4.html

It should annoy a lot of people, particularly the impoverished drivers of small cars who can't afford a large SUV of their own, so might be worth buying for that reason alone.

Warm climate car, slush box, its doing it for me.


----------



## Scoosh (10 Dec 2021)

*MOD NOTE:*
If you wish to discuss the issue of the real (or imagined) matter of the negative effects of large SUVs – as has been said upthread ... start your own thread in the Motoring Section.

If you only want to disrupt/ start arguments in this thread – you will find your access to it severely restricted.

Thank you.


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## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)

Hacienda71 said:


> Just for balance....
> https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities
> Now back to talking about your lovely big SUVs


Just for balance it’s not the car though that’s the problem !  It doesn’t drive itself ! 

sorry mods


----------



## fossyant (10 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Just for balance it’s not the car though that’s the problem !  It doesn’t drive itself !
> 
> sorry mods



Just sat through a whole day of environmental litteracy programme at work. Apparently, me eating a steak one a month, and drinking lots of milk and bananas to power my bike, is still worse than driving a panzer... us meat and dairy consumers were made to feel worse than a panzer driver....


----------



## Hacienda71 (10 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Just for balance it’s not the car though that’s the problem !  It doesn’t drive itself !
> 
> sorry mods


I hope you are not suggesting SUV drivers are a problem.  Sorry mods 
I think I will start an alternative thread. No need to reply here.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (10 Dec 2021)

Scoosh said:


> *MOD NOTE:*
> If you wish to discuss the issue of the real (or imagined) matter of the negative effects of large SUVs – as has been said upthread ... start your own thread in the Motoring Section.
> 
> If you only want to disrupt/ start arguments in this thread – you will find your access to it severely restricted.
> ...



I've not said anything here before. 

But the idea that moderators on a cycling site should prevent critical comment on a thread celebrating the use of intimidating and dangerous vehicles is outrageous. 

Shame on you.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (10 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Ah, marvellous Mr T. Not seen either of those. May have to scout the bay of e



https://www.britishbuspublishing.co.uk/police-range-rover-handbook.html 

That M62 film is worth watch all the way through


----------



## Scoosh (10 Dec 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I've not said anything here before.
> 
> But the idea that moderators on a cycling site should prevent critical comment on a thread celebrating the use of intimidating and dangerous vehicles is outrageous.
> 
> Shame on you.


Not at all.
All that is being said is start your own thread. Nothing to stop you doing that.


----------



## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I've not said anything here before.
> 
> But the idea that moderators on a cycling site should prevent critical comment on a thread celebrating the use of intimidating and dangerous vehicles is outrageous.
> 
> Shame on you.


Not all cyclists are tree hugging lentil chompers either  .


----------



## MrGrumpy (10 Dec 2021)

Hacienda71 said:


> I hope you are not suggesting SUV drivers are a problem.  Sorry mods
> I think I will start an alternative thread. No need to reply here.


It would be any vehicle for that matter ! But you knew that


----------



## icowden (10 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Qualification criteria for membership, and thus discussion of your vehicle:
> Minimum weight: 1.75 tonnes.
> Transmission: AWD, 4WD, either selectable or on demand.
> Minimum ground clearance: 7 inches/175mm.
> Ideally more than 4 cylinders and higher capacity than 2 litres, but we're flexible on this point as downsizing of engines is an insiduous modern disease.



So it's only for people with old cars?
You do know that there are a lot of large SUVs that are electric? Tesla X, Audi Sportback E-Tron, Volvo XC40 Recharge, Skoda Enyak ?

They all meet the weight criteria and ground clearance (I think) but don't have a gas guzzling engine.


----------



## Hacienda71 (10 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> It would be any vehicle for that matter ! But you knew that


Come on stop derailing Dragos we love big SUVs thread.


----------



## MrGrumpy (11 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> So it's only for people with old cars?
> You do know that there are a lot of large SUVs that are electric? Tesla X, Audi Sportback E-Tron, Volvo XC40 Recharge, Skoda Enyak ?
> 
> They all meet the weight criteria and ground clearance (I think) but don't have a gas guzzling engine.


It’s a very select club  .


----------



## Drago (11 Dec 2021)

Electric SUVs are welcome, although they don't go very well on the mandatory lumberjack shirt, and none have a quoted wading capacity for some strange reason...

Christmas gig today and we have to move a PA, four monitors, four amps, a 4 x 12 cab, mixing desk, drum kit, 5 guitars, 2 basses, 3 pedal boards, 3 mics and stands, enough cables to span a small ocean, and a stool.

Between the 5 of us we have my XC90, a Rangie P400e, and XC60 and a Porker Macan (bigger than it appears). Even with all that mighty luggsge space its still like playing a game of 3D tetris. Would have had no hope if we all drove normies.

Only our rhythm guitarist has a normie. An interesting story there. He ordered an Infiniti just before Nissan pulled the brand from the UK. Its a big old Jap lux-O-barge. A few days later they rang him and offered him a second car. He declined on the basis he couldn't afford it. No, they said, its for free. Turned out they had no dealers left to sell them and still had 10 or so cars in UK stock. Whatever they did they were going to make a loss, so they just gave them away. So my man got 2 brand new Infiniti's for the price of 1. Big old things, similar footprint and weight to an SUV.


----------



## fossyant (11 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Electric SUVs are welcome, although they don't go very well on the mandatory lumberjack shirt, and none have a quoted wading capacity for some strange reason...



Bit like eMTB's then - bloody poinless if they can't be submerged


----------



## Bonefish Blues (11 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> So it's only for people with old cars?
> You do know that there are a lot of large SUVs that are electric? Tesla X, Audi Sportback E-Tron,* Volvo XC40 Recharge*, Skoda Enyak ?
> 
> They all meet the weight criteria and ground clearance (I think) but don't have a gas guzzling engine.


The Volvo's only large on the outside! Borrowed one from Drago's tame dealer when our car was in for hammering and was bemused by how much metal went into such little actual space


----------



## Drago (11 Dec 2021)

XC40 is indeed like a reverse TARDIS.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (11 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> XC40 is indeed like a reverse TARDIS.


A RETARDIS, mebbee?


----------



## Drago (11 Dec 2021)

Ooohh, I'd love to laugh but in this day and age that kind of makes me wince a bit. A clever play on words, but nevertheless...


----------



## Bonefish Blues (11 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Ooohh, I'd love to laugh but in this day and age that kind of makes me wince a bit. A clever play on words, but nevertheless...


Go on, have a childish snigger with me and we'll go back to our normal pc-friendly versions afterwards - nobody will notice


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (11 Dec 2021)

@Drago

Have you seen this one before, of Trumpton on a shout, in a Rangie, in Londinium

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epME8YCNrR0


Not quite '_The Liver Run'_. but good


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## Drago (12 Dec 2021)

We weren't allowed to call them Trumpton, although that didn't stop them calling us the Jellystone Rangers.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (12 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> We weren't allowed to call them Trumpton, although that didn't stop them calling us the Jellystone Rangers.


Nor
Water-Fairies?
I know some of the Nurses dislike being called 'Doctor Helpers'


----------



## icowden (12 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Electric SUVs are welcome, although they don't go very well on the mandatory lumberjack shirt, and none have a quoted wading capacity for some strange reason...



Maybe because BEV's tend to float, and there is no exhaust to flood the engine that doesn't exist?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNGwuOy8Hs


----------



## MrGrumpy (12 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> Maybe because BEV's tend to float, and there is no exhaust to flood the engine that doesn't exist?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNGwuOy8Hs



Wouldn’t want my car to float crossing a river  .


----------



## Drago (12 Dec 2021)

I'm flood driving and response trained, and there's a technical term for cars that float and become uncontrollable. 

Boats.


----------



## icowden (12 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Wouldn’t want my car to float crossing a river  .


i’d prefer that to the alternative….


----------



## gzoom (13 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> Maybe because BEV's tend to float, and there is no exhaust to flood the engine that doesn't exist?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNGwuOy8Hs




Humm, isn't that just driving in water rather than 'float' .

Anyways you wouldn't be finding me trying any shenanigans like that in our Model X. The raised ride height, massive size is all designed for kerb mounting and parking across one bay whilst just really taking up two at the local M&S Foods 

Far more importantly I managed to secure a bin the back for my daughter to try and stop the car looking like a skip on road trips.


----------



## Drago (13 Dec 2021)

A grudging trip to B&Q today for all sorts of bulky and large stuff. Luckily my capacious large SUV will swallow it with ease and has 200kg of load capacity on the roof for good measure.


----------



## KneesUp (13 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> A grudging trip to B&Q today for all sorts of bulky and large stuff. Luckily my capacious large SUV will swallow it with ease and has 200kg of load capacity on the roof for good measure.


Do you carry little caravan steps so you can actually get stuff on the roof?


----------



## MrGrumpy (13 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> Do you carry little caravan steps so you can actually get stuff on the roof?


I just lower the suspension


----------



## icowden (13 Dec 2021)

gzoom said:


> Humm, isn't that just driving in water rather than 'float' .



It is, but Elon did confirm that the Tesla should be able to act like a boat for a period of time (although it would invalidate the warranty)

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/06/tesla-model-s-floats-boat-video/


----------



## Bonefish Blues (13 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> It is, but Elon did confirm that the Tesla should be able to act like a boat for a period of time (although it would invalidate the warranty)
> 
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/06/tesla-model-s-floats-boat-video/


If it's worth doing...


View: https://youtu.be/QRxCfEnScZk


----------



## Drago (13 Dec 2021)

KneesUp said:


> Do you carry little caravan steps so you can actually get stuff on the roof?


Fortunately I'm proper man size, a kind of Desperate Dan figure. Getting a bike up there and clamped in is a stretch, but I can do it.


----------



## Badger_Boom (13 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> It is, but Elon did confirm that the Tesla should be able to act like a boat for a period of time (although it would invalidate the warranty)
> 
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/06/tesla-model-s-floats-boat-video/


I wonder if Elon has considered a duplex drive option for a couple of propellors, like one of these:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XuSneN1W8U




icowden said:


> i’d prefer that to the alternative….


The 'alternative' is often being swept downstream to you doom. I prefer the safer option of not entering fast moving water.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (13 Dec 2021)

I think that's the system that failed and killed many troops on manoeuvres off Dorset during WW2, isn't it?

ETA for clarity after checking
Whilst yes it is the system that was involved in the tragedy of the so-called 'Donald Duck' tanks, the system itself did what it was supposed to do, but they were launched too far offshore in conditions that were too rough and overlapped the skirting, with tragic consequences.


----------



## gbb (13 Dec 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> @Drago
> 
> Have you seen this one before, of Trumpton on a shout, in a Rangie, in Londinium
> 
> ...



Was the Liver run the guy in the SD1 who almost collapsed with fatigue when he'd completed the run ?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (13 Dec 2021)

gbb said:


> Was the Liver run the guy in the SD1 who almost collapsed with fatigue when he'd completed the run ?


Yes
And one of the motorbikes packed in too, ‘blowing the engine’
l think it was actually a ‘bike Officer’, who gave up Traffic afterwards, as it was so stressful


----------



## Drago (13 Dec 2021)

I quit RPU after an incident when I was on a motorbike.


----------



## Badger_Boom (14 Dec 2021)

Bonefish Blues said:


> I think that's the system that failed and killed many troops on manoeuvres off Dorset during WW2, isn't it?


DD Shermans were involved in the Slapton Sands disater when raiding German E-Boats came accross Exercise Tiger, a large scale rehearsal for the D-Day landings, and took the assembled vessels by surprise, sinking many and killing almost 1,000 US servicemen.


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

Going over to PMT in Northampton today with our drummer to look at some bits for the band, so I get to be chauffeured in a Porsche Macan. Vroom vroom!

They don't look very big, but parked up next to my XC90 one realises they are a fair sized old lump of SUV.


----------



## swansonj (14 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> ...
> Christmas gig today and we have to move a PA, four monitors, four amps, a 4 x 12 cab, mixing desk, drum kit, 5 guitars, 2 basses, 3 pedal boards, 3 mics and stands, enough cables to span a small ocean, and a stool.
> 
> Between the 5 of us we have my XC90, a Rangie P400e, and XC60 and a Porker Macan (bigger than it appears). Even with all that mighty luggsge space its still like playing a game of 3D tetris. Would have had no hope if we all drove normies.
> ...


I was intrigued by this. We faced similar needs twenty-odd years ago, in our case, transporting a varied assortment of children, cellos, trombones, tubas, conductor's rostrums, etc (as well as family camping trips and trips to the dump and B&Q). Our solution was to get a Zafira. Our current, second, Zafira is now 12 years old with 120,000 miles and we will run it till it drops. But I've been wondering what we will replace it with when the time comes, that still allows good load carrying. Your observation prompted me to look at some figures: (load capacity in litres)


XC90ZafiraGalaxy7 seat configuration3561403005 seat configuration100771013012 seat configuration185618602339
 
I offer no further comment other than the obvious, that a requirement for load volume alone does not in fact seem to force you inevitably to an SUV.


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

I loved my Zafira, very honest car, but nice to see the XC90 compares very favourably against it for capacity. I found it very comfortable for a chap of my dimensions, it drove reasonably well was easy to work on and very practical. Mine was even quite reliable! It had a lot to recommend it...but id never go back now.

The Galaxy looks great on paper, but has a serious drawback. Unlike the XC and the Zaffy, you need to actually remove the seats to access the greater load area. I don't have anywhere to store them, and discovering you need to remove sests to fit your B&Q shopping inside is a bit of a ballache. In the 90 you pull a lever, over it goes, no problem. It has great capacity, using it has massive consequences and you cant just whio seats out at the shops or put them back halfway theough a journey. Its a van or a car, but not both at the same time.

Got some 2.4 metre lengths of wood, battens and oak planks, in the XC yesterday with room to spare. They do not fit in a Zaffy I know that first hand.

The other issue is that when humans are being transported the cabin in the Zaffy is relatively cramped, and aside from the extra headroom pretty much an Astra sized cabin. The Galaxy is better (know the Galaxy well, Mrs D had an Alhambra for a spell) and that is obviously much better than the Zaffy, but still not in the same league as the XC.

And the XC can have a human in all 7 seats and still has the boot capacity of a small hatch remaining. Not so the Zaffy. The Galaxy has some too, but its awkwardly proportioned and narrows at the top, so unless your luggage is wedge shaped its actually very diffult to use. Also the Volvo's split tailgate means stuff youve wedged in there in 7 seat mode doesnt fall out when you open the boot.

So while the Galaxy trumps if you are happy to take out - bloody heavy - sests and have somewhere to store them, its not stellar the rest of the time. Under one brand/model name or another weve been there with all 3 and the Volvo aces it, but if I were forced to choose I'd take the Zaffy over the Galaxy again any day of the week.

And the Volvo also brings built in child booster seats that deploy at the toack of a lever, rear seat tv screens, heated seats all round (ventilated and heated massage jobs in the front), more sensibke accessories and frivolous toys.

And the Galaxy lacks wading capacity, AWD, ground clearance... it no use to me when it rains heavily and one village road floods and the other becomes a ford.

Some cars do one thing better, some do another, but only our large SUVs do it all reasonably well. They're the mama bears porridge of motoring - just right.


----------



## MrGrumpy (14 Dec 2021)

So you both had Zafiras and they have never gone on fire  …..


----------



## fossyant (14 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Porsche Macan. Vroom vroom!



Massive on the outside, and huge planet burners, and way too fast ! Saw a video from Vinny Jones at weekend - pulling a Lambo Origami 4x4 on road tyres, out of a field with a boggo Defender


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

Aye, going fast on the road isn't really my thing either, but then it's not my car. I suspect also that its carbon emissions are measured in lumps of coal.



MrGrumpy said:


> So you both had Zafiras and they have never gone on fire  …..



Mine was the mk1, the model without the optional in dash inglenook fireplace. Chap in the village actually had his catch fire while he had his sprog in the car with him and he was not best pleased. He got fingetef for drink driving a short while later, so not having a car of his own turned out to be quite fortuitous in the end.


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

Well, the Macan was nice. Quite fast, as one would expect. A little more snug inside than one might expect from a car with those exterior dimensions, but very nicrly appointed.

I expect it exists for those who would love a 911 but whose elderly hips would not let them.

I didn't ask, but I did get rhe impression that it burns baby seals and not petrol.


----------



## MrGrumpy (14 Dec 2021)

Baby seals


----------



## icowden (14 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Baby seals



@Drago BMW have announced the ultimate (but ugly) BMW SUV:

https://fullycharged.show/episodes/bmw-ix-the-ugly-truth/

A snip at £115000 fully specced. !!


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

I kind of reminds me of something, but can't quite place it.


----------



## Gillstay (14 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Well, the Macan was nice. Quite fast, as one would expect. A little more snug inside than one might expect from a car with those exterior dimensions, but very nicrly appointed.
> 
> I expect it exists for those who would love a 911 but whose elderly hips would not let them.
> 
> I didn't ask, but I did get rhe impression that it burns baby seals and not petrol.


A chum has bought one and as for German efficiency I find it hard to believe it cannot do 30mpg at any point. I would have to go back 30yrs to find a car I owned that could not do that at some point.


----------



## Drago (14 Dec 2021)

Aye, you need deep pockets to run one. Mind you, you'd get to the cashpoint quickly.


----------



## icowden (15 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Aye, you need deep pockets to run one. Mind you, you'd get to the cashpoint quickly.



Brings to mind Clarkson's purchase of the Ford GT and it's dismal14-18mpg meaning that he had to refuel constantly.


----------



## gzoom (15 Dec 2021)

Gillstay said:


> A chum has bought one and as for German efficiency I find it hard to believe it cannot do 30mpg at any point.



This is why I love EVs. Our much larger Electric SUV, that is just as fast, costs the equivalent of 120mpg to refuel, thats even with higher electricity costs.

Hence it gets used for everything, why wouldn't you when its so cheap to run .


----------



## Drago (15 Dec 2021)

Mrs D's EV cost nearly 60 grand in the spec she wanted.

Whereas my planet killing SUV was free.

A helluva lot now, or a little bit over time...? I'll be able to drive for decades, perhaps centuries at the mileage I do, at 32-42 MPG before I get anywhere near the cost of the Polestar, so the expense is all relative.


----------



## gzoom (15 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Mrs D's EV cost nearly 60 grand in the spec she wanted.



Regardless of petrol, diesel or Electric most NEW SUVs cost around £60k+. The initial cost of our Model X was actually the same as a diesel Q7. 

Clearly most people don't buy brand new cars, but if no one did where would the second hand car market come from?

Whats interesting is because our electric SUV is so cheap to maintain/own I cannot see us ever selling it. Not buying a new car every 3 years (like I use to) is actually a great money saver in the longterm. We will be keeping our one for at least a decade, its coming up to been 5 years old come March 2022, so time does fly when you are having fun .


----------



## Drago (15 Dec 2021)

Absoluteamundo. My SUV is so cheap to run compared compared to the purchase price of an EV I shall probably keep it until the wheels fall off. 

You're right, saving so much money is hilarious fun.

Anywah, back to proper SUVs, mine is in horrendous need of a clean, as is the Polestar. Winter salt, nearby builders who cant be arsed to hose their vehicles off before getting the road have all conspired to leafe both looking very sorry for themselves.

That being the case ive set Saturday mirning aside to give them both a clean, and a bit of a dose of spray wax as I leather them off. I'll do the Volvo first so that if my enthusiasm wanes and I run out of steam then its the Tamiya car that says dirty while the real car gets cleaned. To he fair, I quite enjoy it so will likely get both done. Cup of tea, radio quietly on, a not unpleasant way to spend a few hours.


----------



## icowden (15 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> A helluva lot now, or a little bit over time...? I'll be able to drive for decades, perhaps centuries at the mileage I do, at 32-42 MPG before I get anywhere near the cost of the Polestar, so the expense is all relative.



Doesn't that depend on the future availability of Diesel? In an economy rapidly going to battery, there will be a tipping point where production of consumer Diesel decreases and cost of making it rapidly rises. Not yet, but perhaps quicker than we think. At what point does filling your car at 30-40mpg become unsustainable? My crappy Renault costs £80 to fill up at the moment. That's £160 a month or almost 2k per year on Diesel. That's already feeling expensive o me. Plus the £1000 or so every 2-3 years for maintenance. 

Home charging a really big BEV is likely to cost <> £10 at the moment.


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Dec 2021)

Fuel is not going to disappear of the edge of cliff anytime soon. It just won’t! The whole idea of the ban is that in the fullness of time , gradually these older cars will be gone as they slowly get replaced by EVs. Prices of used cars have gone skywards, waiting times for new cars have increased. Nope diesel and petrol is here for long time yet !


----------



## Drago (15 Dec 2021)

Diesel wont be going anywhere for decades, perhaps centuries. Lorries, ships, military vehicles, diesel will still be freely available long after I'm gone, never mind long after nature finally reclaims my car. 

The whole battery powered thing loses efficiency with scale, and even if it didn't there arent enough rare earth metals to replace all ICE cars 1:1 with an electric one, never mind everything else that burns diesel.

While oil is still coming out the ground - and it _will _until every last drop has gone because raw chemical stock, plastics and fertilisers have to come from somewhere - someone will want to burn it. I'm totally confident that i'll have no issues with SUV juice availability during my remaining ownership.


----------



## icowden (15 Dec 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Fuel is not going to disappear of the edge of cliff anytime soon. It just won’t!



I admire your optimism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Dec 2021)

icowden said:


> I admire your optimism.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829


That article refers to the next two decades !! Remember hybrids have even an extended life before banned from new. I really don’t think anyone needs to worry and rush out now and buy an electric car .


----------



## Drago (15 Dec 2021)

You need you form a picture in your mind of me in my armchair, feet up, completely and utterly not remotely concerned in the slightest.

There are two hopes of it becoming unavailable in my lifetime, and one of those is Bob. Inceed, I think brown outs and electricity shortages are far more likely, but thats a discussion you can start a thread on elsewhere besause this thread is for large SUV owners to discuss their cars, not economics, geopolitics or potential commercial outcomes.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 Dec 2021)

Tuesday 21st

Heath 'conservation' village
(east of) Wakefield (city-cantre)


----------



## tyred (21 Dec 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Tuesday 21st
> 
> Heath 'conservation' village
> (east of) Wakefield (city-cantre)
> ...


Ford 4600 with the Q-Cab fitted.


----------



## Drago (26 Dec 2021)

Filled my old bus up with fuel today. 41.1 mpg across the last tank. Happy enough with that for sure.


----------



## southcoast (26 Dec 2021)

Tough little Yaris!


View: https://twitter.com/Zero2Turbo/status/1474277254012313601?s=20


----------



## StuAff (26 Dec 2021)

southcoast said:


> Tough little Yaris!
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/Zero2Turbo/status/1474277254012313601?s=20



GR Yaris (must admit I thought it was an Aygo at first)…a very different beast. But a much more sensible urban 4x4.


----------



## mpemburn (27 Dec 2021)

We own a 2018 Subaru Forester. It’s large-ish, not huge. AWD and the ground clearance os 8.7 inches (22 cm). Bought it because we live on a 1/2 mile long gravel lane to the nearest road. When it snows, it’s the only vehicle that can get out. Our other car is a Honda Fit, and it sits quietly while the Subaru does the work.


----------



## Drago (27 Dec 2021)

Nice motors indeed, but expensive. I have looked at them on more than one occasion and been frightened off by the price tag and the lack of relatives willing to buy one for me.


----------



## gzoom (27 Dec 2021)

Had some complaints from the extended family on the cleanse of family wagon after some Xmas trips out. 

Luckily thanks to the magic of plastic leather, even after 50K miles a quick wipe and hover has it looking 'as new' despite a white interior + family usage .


----------



## fossyant (27 Dec 2021)

gzoom said:


> Had some complaints from the extended family on the cleanse of family wagon after some Xmas trips out.
> 
> Luckily thanks to the magic of plastic leather, even after 50K miles a quick wipe and hover has it looking 'as new' despite a white interior + family usage .
> 
> View attachment 623769


2 out of 10 there, you've missed the outside and the door sils.


----------



## gzoom (27 Dec 2021)

fossyant said:


> 2 out of 10 there, you've missed the outside and the door sils.



They only complained about the interior not the sheet metal  

Infact I don't think I have washed the car since July, and there is no point washing the exterior now, it'll just dirty again in 5 minutes. Luckily the car is used for urban duties and ceramic coating on it helps to a degree to keep it clean. It could look far worse!


----------



## BianchiVirgin (27 Dec 2021)

gzoom said:


> They only complained about the interior not the sheet metal
> 
> Infact I don't think I have washed the car since July, and there is no point washing the exterior now, it'll just dirty again in 5 minutes. Luckily the car is used for urban duties and ceramic coating on it helps to a degree to keep it clean. It could look far worse!
> 
> View attachment 623786


And that dirty since July? 😬 Mine would be that dirty driving the 150m to the gate.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (29 Dec 2021)

Possibly the last Land-Cruiser I really liked; the _'B60' _

4-litre, straight-6 diesel
24 volt electrics!!

I think the Aussie market got a petrol V8?


----------



## Drago (19 Jan 2022)

Im off to Manchester in a Porsche Macan tomorrow. I'm expecting time to warp and for us to arrive before we even leave.


----------



## MrGrumpy (20 Jan 2022)

The local valeting firm which has been on the go for a while now has ditched the Ford Ranger pick up for a nice petrol Macan. Had a very nice rasp to it .


----------



## gzoom (21 Jan 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> The local valeting firm which has been on the go for a while now has ditched the Ford Ranger pick up for a nice petrol Macan. Had a very nice rasp to it .



Hold on isn't this thread about LARGE SUVs??!!

A Macan isn't a large SUV is it? Its barely bigger than a Focus interms of practicality


----------



## MrGrumpy (22 Jan 2022)

gzoom said:


> Hold on isn't this thread about LARGE SUVs??!!
> 
> A Macan isn't a large SUV is it? Its barely bigger than a Focus interms of practicality


It is but Drago mentioned a Macan and it reminded me of the very large Ford Ranger that was chopped in for one that is all . As you were .


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 Jan 2022)

Okay, it's certainly not sensible/logical, & undoubtedly far too big for UK roads
But........ how about the Diesel Brothers (aka 'Sparks Motors') _Mega-Ram, _as a SUV? 


*EDIT @ 18:47*
To help to give some idea of the size, it's running on 44" (diameter) tyres


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (27 Jan 2022)

In relation to the above Mega-Ram

This illustrates the vast difference in sizes, & why such vehicles are totally unfeasible over here
I think this may be a F-350, but substantially raised


----------



## Gillstay (27 Jan 2022)

That is an amazingly stupid thing !


----------



## BianchiVirgin (27 Jan 2022)

Gillstay said:


> That is an amazingly stupid thing !


Isn't it just. Only in USA


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (8 Mar 2022)

Tue 8th

Spotted 

Aston-Barclay
Havertop
(Normanton bypass)

I believe this company prepares (leased/good Px?) cars for auction?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (13 Mar 2022)

Sunday 13th

Discovery

Off ‘Eastern Relief-Road’
By Harrisons Bridge
(it spans the Aire & Calder Navigation Canal)
Wakefield

It was parked near me, when l took this photograph


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 Mar 2022)

The tyres on the Discovery pictured above could be a good compromise tyre for the Kodiaq, when it needs a set 
(hopefully not for over 20,000+ miles, though!!)

Have to look at the speed ratings, as mine has a higher top-speed than a Discovery diesel


----------



## gzoom (22 Mar 2022)

Plans are nearly finised, ferries booked, accommodation sorted. Our large SUV will be put to good use this summer on a mammoth 3000miles+ road trip to Norway. 

We'll have 6 people in the car for the Norway segment, luckily it appears even with 6 people there is enough luggage capacity without resorting to external storage. 

Apparently Norway has even more amazing roads versus Switzerland, cannot wait .


----------



## theclaud (5 Apr 2022)

Another good reason not to buy an SUV, acknowledged by, er, The Telegraph. Deflating tyres is inconvenience, not vandalism, of course, but we can cut them a bit of slack on this occasion.






Don't let anyone ever persuade you that direct action doesn't work. Particularly gratifying that the deflating tool of choice is a lentil.


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Apr 2022)

theclaud said:


> Another good reason not to buy an SUV, acknowledged by, er, The Telegraph. Deflating tyres is inconvenience, not vandalism, of course, but we can cut them a bit of slack on this occasion.
> 
> View attachment 638665
> 
> ...


That link is blocked on Virgin lol . If it was my car first time would be an inconvenience second time I’d probably end up in bother with the authorities But hey ho .


----------



## Badger_Boom (10 Apr 2022)

theclaud said:


> Another good reason not to buy an SUV, acknowledged by, er, The Telegraph. Deflating tyres is inconvenience, not vandalism, of course, but we can cut them a bit of slack on this occasion.
> 
> View attachment 638665
> 
> ...


I’d like to see the carbon neutral credentials of the SUV vandals before passing judgement.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (15 Apr 2022)




----------



## Richard A Thackeray (15 Apr 2022)

This could be fun when it's sorted out & finished
Not sure about the Ford 'York' diesel though, as used in the A-Series

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26564273...://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1


----------



## theclaud (15 Apr 2022)

Badger_Boom said:


> I’d like to see the carbon neutral credentials of the SUV vandals before passing judgement.


Yawn.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (17 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> It's getting towards the time, when we'll be looking at taking the_ BWSOW_ out of hibernation, & ..... SWMBO doesn't really want to drive my car, as it's a manual, & she's driven autos for the past 4 years
> 
> So, the choices are;
> *1.* PX my Kodiaq for an automatic
> ...



We’ve just been to look at a vehicle, & put a deposit down
My initial thoughts were for a Volvo XC90, or maybe a XC70, but something I'd not even thought about passed daughter & myself, when i was driving to York yesterday, so a bit of Auto-Trader searching found a few

It’s certainly not new, as it's on a ‘55’ plate (2006 reg'd) , but we have a 'private plate' on retention that can go on it (I'm sure it's still got time on the certificate)

It's nothing too fancy, I guess it was when it was new though!
It's ‘hefty’ enough to cope with the BWSOW, & definitely has a good enough towing capacity!

3.0 Turbo-Diesel
Automatic
4x4
Hopefully, we'll get it by next weekend
(seller has agreed to a full valet & 2 new front tyres)


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (20 Apr 2022)

With regard to the above, we've bought a VW Touareg
The 3.0Tdi V6 is the mid-range engine


I'd really like to try the *big* one, which is a 5.0Tdi V10, but apparantly, it knocks the hell out of the 'handling' & ride quality (due to being so heavy)
That's got 550Ib/ft of torque, & 300BHP


----------



## fossyant (20 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> With regard to the above, we've bought a VW Touareg
> The 3.0Tdi V6 is the mid-range engine
> 
> 
> ...



And burns the planet down !


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (20 Apr 2022)

fossyant said:


> And burns the planet down !


It’ll probably do less miles per year, with us, than most small ‘city cars’/hatchbacks


----------



## MrGrumpy (20 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> With regard to the above, we've bought a VW Touareg
> The 3.0Tdi V6 is the mid-range engine
> 
> 
> ...



Only 60 lb/ft of torque more than my 3.0 sdv6? Same engine can also pump out 306bhp ?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> With regard to the above, we've bought a VW Touareg
> The 3.0Tdi V6 is the mid-range engine
> 
> 
> I'd really like to try the *big* one, which is a 5.0Tdi V10


Apparently, some markets (probably not the UK!) were offered the 6.0 W12, that was used in Bentleys!!!


The seller put 2 new front tyres on, as agreed, they’re a heck of a size!
275/40 x 20 

Whilst picking it up






Just trying the plate that will go on, to disguise the age, to some extent






Oh, and;
*1. *It also has a low-range!
I’ve not tried it yet, but it shows as selected on the instrument cluster
Taken on Saturday, so a bit grubby




*2. *it has a 100litre fuel tank
£50, took it to just over a 1/3rd full


----------



## MrGrumpy (21 Apr 2022)

That’s beast ! Is the 6.0 V12 the same engine used in that classic Jason Statham film The transporter ? Its an Audi but I’m sure that’s a V12 in that car?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 Apr 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> That’s beast ! Is the 6.0 V12 the same engine used in that classic Jason Statham film The transporter ? Its an Audi but I’m sure that’s a V12 in that car?


No idea on the film???
It's a W12, not a V-formation


----------



## MrGrumpy (21 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> No idea on the film???
> It's a W12, not a V-formation
> 
> 
> View attachment 641155



Ahh yes you would be right .


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (22 Apr 2022)

Surprisingly there's no guard on such a long/serpentine belt!

Official figures are (when new)
222BHP
369 Ib/ft torque


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (22 Apr 2022)

That's a *BIG *exhaust silencer


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 Apr 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> That’s beast !



It's a bit bigger than my Kodiaq, which is;
*L =* 4697 (15' 4")
*W =* 1882 (6' 1")
*H =* 1676 (5' 5")

Touareg
*L= *4878 (16' 1")
*W =* 1984 (6' 4")
*H = *1717 (5' 7")

*NB; *
Lengths do not include tow-bars
Widths do not include mirrors


----------



## theclaud (24 Apr 2022)

Tyre Extinguishers feature on the Road.cc podcast this weekend. 

https://road.cc/content/news/roadcc-podcast-vedangi-kulkarni-tyre-extinguishers-292163

_“We've chosen SUVs for a number of reasons – not least the International Energy Agency's research showing that the increasing pace of SUV buying is cancelling out all the carbon savings from people switching to electric cars. If SUV drivers were a country, it would be the sixth-largest emitter in the world.”

Other reasons for the group targeting SUVs include air pollution, increasingly linked to a number of health conditions, the increased risk of death or injury to other people that the vehicles – and their drivers – present, plus the fact that “they are absolutely everywhere – and that means people in almost every urban area can take this action.”

As for the reaction they have received? “We've had very many death threats, almost entirely from men,” they told us. “There are a lot of men with fragile egos out there who seem to value their cars more than their children's future.

“But it’s worth saying we have had loads of support – lots of people getting in touch, saying they love what we're doing. We even had some journalists getting in touch saying they loved it – and not from media outlets you might expect to be sympathetic!

“Our favourite bit of media coverage by far is the weekend motoring article in The Telegraph on 3rd April, which suggested that motorists opt for smaller cars to avoid being targeted by the Tyre Extinguishers_


----------



## Arrowfoot (24 Apr 2022)

They know full well the wealthy and well heeled would have their SUVs parked on private property at night. They probably drive to their destination for poor returns and add to the emission. Misguided attention seekers would be the best label. 

Why not canvass politically and force the hiking of SUV taxes on means tested basis with the exception for rural folks. We all know that in most cases an SUV is not needed.


----------



## MrGrumpy (24 Apr 2022)

theclaud said:


> Tyre Extinguishers feature on the Road.cc podcast this weekend.
> 
> https://road.cc/content/news/roadcc-podcast-vedangi-kulkarni-tyre-extinguishers-292163
> 
> ...



I smell sh……te


----------



## MrGrumpy (24 Apr 2022)

Todays park like a pr…..k in your SUV is this Tesla driver. Talk about the owners of big 4x4 being self entitled twats but this is quite common. Not charging just using it as their personal parking space !


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (25 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Just trying the plate that will go on, to disguise the age, to some extent
> View attachment 641116



Given that we only collected it last Thursday (21st), the new V5 arrived in todays post!!
Now we can send it, & the retention certificate, back to have the above pictured registration assigned to it


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (30 Apr 2022)

SWMBO drove the Touareg this morning apparantly, with her dad as passenger

I'm told he was holding on!!!
She tells me it accelerates very well, & was like driving an armchair!
(in that way reminscent of the XKR we used to have)


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (3 May 2022)

Tuesday 3rd 

Spotted in one of the car-parks, as l rode through to the old ‘North Entrance’

I’m not sure if there’s some meaning to the number-plate?

Apologies for the finger partially over lens


----------



## Badger_Boom (7 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I’m not sure if there’s some meaning to the number-plate?
> 
> View attachment 642993


Given the pseudo roughty toughty styling I assume it’s an un-subtle attempt at the obvious banned organisation. I’m actually surprised that DVLA approved it.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (7 May 2022)

Badger_Boom said:


> Given the pseudo roughty toughty styling I assume it’s an un-subtle attempt at the obvious banned organisation


Precisely


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 May 2022)

This was on Wednesday
She's fallen out with the Touareg

I think Friday 29th was the last time it was driven?
This afternoon, f-in-law was going to wash it, & it wouldn't start; a flat battery
Last time it did this, it hadn't moved for about 10 days, it could possibly be that it's still on the original battery & it won't hold a charge?

So, of course it was my fault (& his) that we bought it, instead of something like a Mondeo
(I did look, but the number of automatic Mondeos, is pitiful)

Thus, she's not happy/confident in taking it to Harrogate this weekend, & has suggested that;
- I tow the BSWOW up there
- leave f-in-law (who's staying too) to sort everything out, & set it up
- I come back home
- when she closes office & comes home, she'll take my Kodiaq, & head up, after picking her sister up (having driven it once.... last June)
- run about in it
- tow the BWSOW back, from Harrogate, to the storage (*having never towed anything*)

We decided that the battery wasn't holding its charge, so a new one was sourced
Halfords............
Yes I know, but they were the only place that had one on the shelf

I took it down. with f-in-l, & left him there with it, as I walked up to work

When daughter picked me up in the evening, she told me that he'd been sent home with the battery, as they couldn't fit it, they couldn't get the cover off
(it's in a box under the front passenger seat)

However, her b/f was having a go, with his impact gun to remove the bolts they couldn't apparantly undo
By the time we got home, it was installed, with just the clock & radio to reset
Friday;
I towed the BWSOW up there, we set it up, then I left f-in-l with it, coming home via Follifoot

SWMBO did actually drive up in the Touareg, with her sister
As of speaking to her last night, there's been no problems with it

Barring. of course, the thirst of a 2.5ton, 3.0litre V6


She did reveal there are other thoughts brewing, between her & f-in-l


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 May 2022)

As I stated above, whilst there's been no complaints about it, on my daily phone calls to her.... yet!!!!

There is a consensus of opinion, that it's too big/thirsty
So, whilst there, f-in-l, & SWMBO, have come up with the idea of a VW Tiguan............
An automatic, of course, & I think they're all '4x4' (Haldex centre-diff, like mine??)

I did think of a Karoq, but they've not been around long enough to bring prices down to an appropriate level

Daughters b/f has been offered the Touareg, & seems interested (he took my Octavia off my hands, but has since sold iI)

I had a look at a couple of Tiguans on Auto-Trader, & this one looks nice
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...=3&sort=price-asc&dpp=10020691&sort=price-asc


This one is cheaper, newer, a lot closer (5 miles). but a lot more miles
https://www.omarcars.com/used/volkswagen/tiguan/2-0-tdi-s-5dr-auto/aetv94313642/


----------



## Roseland triker (16 May 2022)

Skip the Tiguan there very problematic not that VW will admit that.

I would go backwards if I was you and try finding something late 90s that's mechanical


----------



## Roseland triker (16 May 2022)

https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1996-land-rover-discovery-v8-nvXbk8

That's a bargain


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 May 2022)

Saturday 14th

Halfords
Ings Road
Wakefield


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1996-land-rover-discovery-v8-nvXbk8
> 
> That's a bargain


Oh that’s nice
200Tdi’s are getting even rarer, as they dissolve, or the engines are transplanted into the various Series, 90s & 110s

Mindst you, most of them are gone by now, & the 300Tdi’s are still being ransacked
I've only ever known 2 V8 manuals (in the '300' shape), one of the owners still has his

This was the other. the green one, a 3.9
Mine in the middle, & the red Tdi was an automatic


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (16 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Skip the Tiguan there very problematic not that VW will admit that.
> 
> I would go backwards if I was you and try finding something late 90s that's mechanical


Mechanically, it’s essentially the same as my Kodiaq, barring the auto-box


----------



## Roseland triker (16 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Mechanically, it’s essentially the same as my Kodiaq, barring the auto-box


Yeah. They spit out transmissions on a regular basis. The old yeti had similar problems so they discontinued it. 

I have a 98 300tdi 3 door XS disco. Air con and leather etc. Leccy windows etc. Really nice as it was from the factory. 
Just doing clutch today, got it all stripped out ready for refit now so do that tomorrow. .
I did have a td5 defender but sold it after many years hard field work and brought the disco. 
Have had ravs and VW/Audi/Skoda's 4x4 and find the 300 disco definitely the best of the lot.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (19 May 2022)

gzoom said:


> However on a day like today you need power doors (having to physically touch the outside of a car is just so crude ) , every seat heated, karaoke on demand via the 17inch central screen to entertain x 3 5 year olds. 70 miles covered today with a total fuel cost of roughly £5 even with the record electricity prices we are seeing at present. Cannot really complain about the running costs of our SUV .


Not sure about heated seats. etc...
But............ the Touareg does have the ability to play ('in-built') games on the radio/sat-nav screen
I only found those whilst resetting the clock/radio pre-sets, after a new battery was fitted


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (19 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Tue 8th
> 
> Spotted
> 
> ...


I saw this again on Tuesday
It's now on a forecourt, on what was JCT600 -Mazda, in Wakefield
Denby Dale Road, opposite B&Q

I've no idea how much it's going for


----------



## Scotchlovingcylist (20 May 2022)

Currently got this as a courtesy car while mine is (hopefully) being repaired. Quite like the raised driving position and all its bells and whistles. Drove my dad's Kuga the other month and didn't mind that either, currently car shopping in case they write mine off which is likely according to the evaluater


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> As I stated above, whilst there's been no complaints about it, on my daily phone calls to her.... yet!!!!
> 
> There is a consensus of opinion, that it's too big/thirsty
> So, whilst there, f-in-l, & SWMBO, have come up with the idea of a VW Tiguan............
> ...


He was thinking of going up to a lot higher cost
Daughter & I looked at a few at 'Car People' in Wakefield, earlier in the week
There a couple of nice looking/'reading' models
However, daughter took f-in-law on Thursday afternoon, & both had gone (moved to another branch, apparantly)

Now, he's thinking about an older ('08' - '11'?) Mondeo TDCi estate, but still an automatic
Therein lies the problem, as it was a predominantly 'fleet'/rep car, & a quick Auto-Trader search last night, showed me about 330 Mondeos within a set radius, but only about 20 were automatics


----------



## Roseland triker (21 May 2022)

Mondeo's have bad engines. They have electronic throttle issues and spit out fuel pumps for sh1ts and giggles.
Something over 10years old is just not worth the money. 
Either go new or very old and save the money


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (22 May 2022)

Bad news, I'm afraid
I'm almost embarrassed to state............
SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
Q3
'Quattro'
automatic
And worst of all, apart from the badge............... a 2.0litre petrol

Subject to test-drive, at the moment 
(I hope they don't like it!)


----------



## fossyant (23 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Bad news, I'm afraid
> I'm almost embarrassed to state............
> SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
> Q3
> ...



So what toy doing with the big *AUDI, sorry VW *


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 May 2022)

fossyant said:


> So what toy doing with the big *AUDI, sorry VW *


I’ll presume that the *’toy’* was meant to be ‘they’?
Between them, they’ve decided that the Touareg is too big, even though it’s primary role was for the BWSOW, & not much else
Thus, they’re thinking along the lines of a smaller/more efficient car that can still tow, but can be a ‘day to day’ driver
(with a 2.0 petrol?!?)


----------



## Roseland triker (23 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Bad news, I'm afraid
> I'm almost embarrassed to state............
> SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
> Q3
> ...


30mpg at best .
There really bad


----------



## fossyant (23 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> 30mpg at best .
> There really bad



Are they turbos, should be OK if newer generation.


----------



## Roseland triker (23 May 2022)

fossyant said:


> Are they turbos, should be OK if newer generation.


Oh-facial figures say 42mpg on the 170bhp petrol but most are doing around 31mpg on auto boxes


----------



## fossyant (23 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Oh-facial figures say 42mpg on the 170bhp petrol but most are doing around 31mpg on auto boxes



Not fab. My old 1.8 VVC will get 40 to 44 on a run, but mid 20's in nose to tail traffic


----------



## Roseland triker (23 May 2022)

I get more mpg outta my disco than my mates mum's Micra auto

Some figures on cars are way off. Q3 being one of those for sure


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (25 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Bad news, I'm afraid
> I'm almost embarrassed to state............
> SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
> Q3
> ...


They like it
I was still looking, hopefully, at Tiguans as the sales-guy brought it round for the test-drive
Still, l can try to tell myself, even though l doubt l’ll use it, that it’s just a posh Skoda


----------



## Venod (25 May 2022)

Why the prejudice against Audi, I have owned VWs Skoda's and Audi's and I liked them all, but without a doubt the Audi had the best quality interior, underneath they are basically the same.


----------



## gzoom (25 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Oh-facial figures say 42mpg on the 170bhp petrol but most are doing around 31mpg on auto boxes



How are everyone finding fuel costs of SUV? Filled up our hybrid saloon the other day was shocked to find it cost nearly £90 for 55l, which give the car a range of 511 miles, so around 42mpg real life, but still thats 17p/mile in fuel. A 30mpg car using diesel at £1.80/l must be close to £1 for every 4 miles or something??!!







Our electric SUV on the other hand has cost us barely anything to refuel the last 4 weeks thanks to the sun, and been able to charge at home. Even with expensive electricity rates, including standing charge and electricity for the whole house, the bill was cheaper than filling up the car at the petrol station, even though we did about 700 miles in the SUV last month.


----------



## Roseland triker (25 May 2022)

Electric cars are a Gretta tick box.
We will be on hydrogen soon enough and all the leccy cars will go in the bin.....


----------



## MrGrumpy (25 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Electric cars are a Gretta tick box.
> We will be on hydrogen soon enough and all the leccy cars will go in the bin.....



Wash your mouth out


----------



## fossyant (26 May 2022)

So how much is the depreciation and hire costs on your £70k leccy motors, when our two petrol cars were paid for many years ago (cost £12k each), and we use very little fuel as it is... fuel prices can go sky rocket, I don't use the car enough.


Don't get too self righteous as these leccy cars are incredibly expensive for a tin box thats still environmental damaging. Keeping a vehicle for many years and using it less is the way to go, not getting a new leccy motor ir any vehicle on PCP every three years.


----------



## gzoom (26 May 2022)

fossyant said:


> Keeping a vehicle for many years and using it less is the way to go, not getting a new leccy motor ir any vehicle on PCP every three years.



Who said anything about getting a new car every 3 year on PCP .

Our EV is 5.5 years old now, no plans to change it anytime soon. Cost to run per mile including fuel, tires, and deprecation is 44p/mile. Which isn't far off what a much older combustion SUV costs, the difference been ofcourse is our EV is a much much nicer driving experience compared to our 2009 Mazda 6.

We do acutally use our SUV alot, it use to averages 15k miles per year but since lock down that figure is closer to 10k.

This summer we are using it for a 1000 mile road trip to France, and than a near 5000 mile road trip to Norway. We actually have 'free' fuel for it onthose trips, in a normal SUV costing 25p per mile in fuel that's well over £1k+ in fuel costs we don't need to pay .


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 May 2022)

My big old SUV is still on the same tank of fuel I filled up with start of the month ! Using a car less and you will save money ! Only if you can of course !


----------



## Roseland triker (26 May 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> My big old SUV is still on the same tank of fuel I filled up with start of the month ! Using a car less and you will save money ! Only if you can of course !


My very big old SUV can easily do two tanks of fuel per week. I love it. 🤣


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (26 May 2022)

Venod said:


> Why the prejudice against Audi, I have owned VWs Skoda's and Audi's and I liked them all, but without a doubt the Audi had the best quality interior, underneath they are basically the same.


Personally, I don't like the look of it/the design
The stereotype of the buyer/driver (almost as bad as a BuM-W)

I was still trying to steer her towards the Tiguans, when we went, to no avail
(there's still a chance, if they can't sort out a 'gouged' door-handle)

Agreed, there's a heck of a lot of shared parts, hence why I'll have to think of it as a posh Skoda


----------



## gzoom (27 May 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> My very big old SUV can easily do two tanks of fuel per week. I love it. 🤣



I persume you have to find a filling station that is manned? £99 limit on the unmanned setups surely cannot get you far as even our efficient hybrid saloon is costing £90 to fill up these days! .


----------



## Roseland triker (27 May 2022)

gzoom said:


> I persume you have to find a filling station that is manned? £99 limit on the unmanned setups surely cannot get you far as even our efficient hybrid saloon is costing £90 to fill up these days! .


Always use a tended service station as I don't go out at night.


----------



## gzoom (27 May 2022)

All the stars were aligned today....

SUV fueled by solar 






SUV and ebIke in harmony....





Lovely commute home on the eBike, hope everyone have a goodweekend


----------



## MrGrumpy (28 May 2022)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/solar-panels….283863/


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (29 May 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Bad news, I'm afraid
> I'm almost embarrassed to state............
> SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
> Q3
> ...


Collected at dinner-time


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (7 Jun 2022)

Oh those are nice
Expensive, but probably not, if you look at the panel replacement alone!!
https://www.kingsleycars.co.uk/

Even the wheels look standard, unless you look at the 'banding';
https://www.kingsleycars.co.uk/for-sale/1992-rhd-range-rover-2-door-4-5i-se-restomod/


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## Richard A Thackeray (28 Jun 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Bad news, I'm afraid
> I'm almost embarrassed to state............
> SWMBO & F-in-law have put a deposit down on one of the '4 cock-ring' things
> Q3
> ...



it did the job, it was bought for, but the Touareg would probably have done it easier/cheaper?;
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/trailers-bwsows.273070/page-18#post-6752157
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/trailers-bwsows.273070/page-18#post-6752792


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## Richard A Thackeray (28 Jun 2022)

Tuesday 28th

_"Help!, I’m surrounded by BWSOWs!!"_


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (30 Jul 2022)

Dearest Defender ever?, that's not a Bowler/etc....


https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2011/land-rover/defender-110-svx/land-rover-defender-110-3/


----------



## dave r (30 Jul 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Dearest Defender ever?, that's not a Bowler/etc....
> 
> 
> https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2011/land-rover/defender-110-svx/land-rover-defender-110-3/



HOW MUCH!


----------



## fossyant (30 Jul 2022)

dave r said:


> HOW MUCH!



Idiots and money. Couple of cans of rattle paint and some big tyres.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (30 Jul 2022)

dave r said:


> HOW MUCH!



Considering that Range Rover #001 went for close to £100,000, a few years ago
I know which I'd have, & it's not black, with fat wheel-arches
https://www.landrovercentre.com/product/yvb151h/


----------



## gzoom (10 Aug 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Dearest Defender ever?, that's not a Bowler/etc....
> 
> 
> https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2011/land-rover/defender-110-svx/land-rover-defender-110-3/



Thanks for sharing, amazing collection of cars at that 'dealership'. Absolutely some amazing cars appear to have changed hands there......

https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/previously-sold/1962/ferrari/250-gto/ferrari-250-gto/


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (12 Aug 2022)

Friday 12th

Those are BIG Potholes!
Access road to (the site of) Woodhead Station
Woodhead Pass/A628
Plenty of normal cars would risk grounding out in those (there were about 10 of them)
For depth comparisons, it's on _235/55 x 18_

Some were deeper than this!












They're om the road that runs down here; https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6352850
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/woodhead/index.shtml


Plus; It's been aridly dry for a long time, & I still find mud!!!
Woodhead Reservoir, just off the road to Glossop (B6105)
Near the site of Crowden Station, & the entrance to the_ Trans-Pennine Trail_


----------



## dan_bo (24 Aug 2022)

They're shite. Grow up.


----------



## MrGrumpy (25 Aug 2022)

Considering most of todays vehicles on the road are off the SUV variety , I’d say there must be something to like about them  .


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## Richard A Thackeray (25 Aug 2022)

dan_bo said:


> View attachment 658598
> 
> They're shite. Grow up.


It could say the same about new editions/versions of anything (mobile phone, laptop, car, etc....)
Do you need a new bike?...................... sorry, that's not applicable, under the *'N + 1*' ruling


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## dan_bo (25 Aug 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> It could say the same about new editions/versions of anything (mobile phone, laptop, car, etc....)
> Do you need a new bike?...................... sorry, that's not applicable, under the *'N + 1*' ruling



Don't have an issue with 4x4s per se. Don't really see the need for massive motors for 99% of usage though.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (25 Aug 2022)

@dan_bo

To be brutally frank, if _SWMBO_ hadn't wanted a bigger BWSOW than my Octavia could have easily coped with (it could have coped it, but not with much 'margin'). I'd not have bought my Kodiaq
That said, I think of it, as more of an '_estate car on stilts'_
If I could have found an Octavia Scout, I would probably have had one of those instead (I know how _very_ capable they are, from YAS buddies)

The VED, at £155, is dearer than my Octavia (that was £30!)
Fuel economy is worse, I was upset, if the Octavia failed to return an average between fill-ups of 55-60MPG
This is giving me 53-55MPG as an average, but for its comparative size (& transmission) 'v' the Octavia, it's good enough


----------



## dan_bo (25 Aug 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> @dan_bo
> 
> To be brutally frank, if _SWMBO_ hadn't wanted a bigger BWSOW than my Octavia could have easily coped with (it could have coped it, but not with much 'margin'). I'd not have bought my Kodiaq
> That said, I think of it, as more of an '_estate car on stilts'_
> ...



I can't and won't judge anyone on their choices but largely they shouldn't be on the market in the first place


----------



## dan_bo (25 Aug 2022)

Tax cars by weight.


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## MrGrumpy (25 Aug 2022)

dan_bo said:


> Tax cars by weight.



I get the feeling you would not be happy even at that.


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## dan_bo (25 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> I get the feeling you would not be happy even at that.



What's that got to do with anything


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## Smokin Joe (26 Aug 2022)

Tax people by weight. Porkers cause more fuel to be used whatever form of motorised travel they use, and even on a bike they wear tyres and road surfaces out more quickly which is bad for the environment. They damage furniture, need more material to cloth themselves and take up too much room on pavements and in shops. And their farts are louder and smellier than normal peoples.

And worst of all, they can't bend down without exposing a builders bum.


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Aug 2022)

Smokin Joe said:


> Tax people by weight. Porkers cause more fuel to be used whatever form of motorised travel they use, and even on a bike they wear tyres and road surfaces out more quickly which is bad for the environment. They damage furniture, need more material to cloth themselves and take up too much room on pavements and in shops. And their farts are louder and smellier than normal peoples.
> 
> And worst of all, they can't bend down without exposing a builders bum.



You been spying on me again


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (26 Aug 2022)

dan_bo said:


> I can't and won't judge anyone on their choices but largely they shouldn't be on the market in the first place



I had several Land-Rovers
A 2A Light-Weight (box of bolts!!)
90s, 110s
Discovery Tdi

I wouldn't really call any of them by that ‘Americanism’ though
All got mucky, all hauled stuff
(even ‘BWSOW’s!!)


----------



## GilesM (29 Aug 2022)

dan_bo said:


> *I can't and won't judge anyone on their choices *but largely they shouldn't be on the market in the first place


 I think you already have


----------



## dan_bo (29 Aug 2022)

GilesM said:


> I think you already have



Oh well


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (30 Aug 2022)

Wednesday 30th

I was in the local Library, earlier this afternoon
This D4 was in the car-park, this Wrangler looks like an ideal tyre for the Kodiaq, when I need replacements (hopefully for for about 20,000 miles, looking at present wear-rates)

It belongs to one of the Librarians (who I went to School with), her hubby has a small haulage firm (4 artics?), so it's used to fetching/carrying parts, & maybe be even dragging them round the yard?


----------



## FishFright (30 Aug 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Electric cars are a Gretta tick box.
> We will be on hydrogen soon enough and all the leccy cars will go in the bin.....



Hydrogen wont happen for cars at all. It's expensive, requires huge investments in infrastructure, its energy inefficient to produce, expensive to store for any amount of time and most important its just a rubbish battery and not an energy source.


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## MrGrumpy (30 Aug 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Wednesday 30th
> 
> I was in the local Library, earlier this afternoon
> This D4 was in the car-park, this Wrangler looks like an ideal tyre for the Kodiaq, when I need replacements (hopefully for for about 20,000 miles, looking at present wear-rates)
> ...





Richard A Thackeray said:


> Wednesday 30th
> 
> I was in the local Library, earlier this afternoon
> This D4 was in the car-park, this Wrangler looks like an ideal tyre for the Kodiaq, when I need replacements (hopefully for for about 20,000 miles, looking at present wear-rates)
> ...



Duratrac is a an old model these days ? Very mud centric if that’s what you need.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (30 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Duratrac is a an old model these days ? Very mud centric if that’s what you need.


I think they've been on that D4 for about 2 years
Years ago, I had BF Goodrich A/Ts on my 110 'Heritage' & they got to about 70,000miles, with maybe 4mm left!!
Its predecessor, the Discovery 50th Anniversary had the Colway 'copies'







Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned(?), but I don't like the look of the_ rubber-bands_ that get fitted to RRs/Discoverys & BuM-W X5s, etc….
No sidewall, less cushioning, more risk of rim damage, that's one good thing about my Kodiaq, it's on 235/55 x 18, so a decent sidewall

*EDIT; Wednesday 31st @ 16:55*
My 110 was on 235/85 x 16
The Discovery, 235/70 x 16


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## Richard A Thackeray (13 Sep 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-62851013


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 Sep 2022)

The original SUV, to use that Americanism, but certainly not a name used back then!!








Seen more as;


----------



## mistyoptic (21 Sep 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> The original SUV, to use that Americanism, but certainly not a name used back then!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 661938
> ...


Recommended Retail Price, for the RR, £1998 inc PT. Those were the days, eh?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (21 Sep 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> Recommended Retail Price, for the RR, £1998 inc PT. Those were the days, eh?



It was indeed!!
I may be wrong, but a Ford Escort was about £700 at that time


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 Sep 2022)

_'Twisted' _have (had) 16 Defenders stashed away, bought in 2016. & not used
They're for sale

The (if upgrade/up-rated) prices are 

https://twisted.co.uk/our-collection/

The last time we passed their showroom, they had a couple of nice Rangies in


View: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10223594659486850&set=a.10222642083273040


View: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10223594659366847&set=a.10222642083273040


----------



## fossyant (23 Sep 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> _'Twisted' _have (had) 16 Defenders stashed away, bought in 2016. & not used
> They're for sale
> 
> The (if upgrade/up-rated) prices are
> ...




Fools and their money !


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> Fools and their money !


Quite how much they'd want, to purchase one, as it is (keeping it standard) & road-register it, is a good question though


----------



## MrGrumpy (23 Sep 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> _'Twisted' _have (had) 16 Defenders stashed away, bought in 2016. & not used
> They're for sale
> 
> The (if upgrade/up-rated) prices are
> ...




Ooft ya banjo ! I love a Defender and my local indie does their own take on Twisted . They ain’t that price !


----------



## Jameshow (23 Sep 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Wednesday 30th
> 
> I was in the local Library, earlier this afternoon
> This D4 was in the car-park, this Wrangler looks like an ideal tyre for the Kodiaq, when I need replacements (hopefully for for about 20,000 miles, looking at present wear-rates)
> ...



How about toyo open country 

I have them on my transit camper and they are great. Low noise, good value, good grip.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (23 Sep 2022)

Jameshow said:


> How about toyo open country
> 
> I have them on my transit camper and they are great. Low noise, good value, good grip.


I'll be looking when the time comes, but all 4 are on about 11-12,000 miles covered

@Jameshow 
Which varient, there's A/T, M/T, R/T, H/T, plus some which look like a winter ('directional'/road) tyre


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (2 Oct 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> Recommended Retail Price, for the RR, £1998 inc PT. Those were the days, eh?


A bargain, in one way

I have found a reprinted 70-71 brochure whilst sorting out some book-cupboards earlier

Note how the advert quotes another 4c4 car at £7000
Could that be a dig at the Jensen Interceptor FF?

I guess the other side of the price is to compare it to houses
My parents bought a new-build ‘town house’, in 1966 (that they still live in!), for circa £2000


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (6 Oct 2022)

Thursday 6th

En-route (circuitously) to York

Bridge, over Stillingfleet Beck
(Carrying the) York Road/B1222
As seen from The Green (northern side)
Stillingfleet
North Yorkshire







https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4847190


----------



## Jameshow (6 Oct 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I'll be looking when the time comes, but all 4 are on about 11-12,000 miles covered
> 
> @Jameshow
> Which varient, there's A/T, M/T, R/T, H/T, plus some which look like a winter ('directional'/road) tyre



AT 

I had cooper MT and they were noisy as anything!! 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25559984...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (6 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> AT
> 
> I had cooper MT and they were noisy as anything!!
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25559984...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


Try 'Bar-Grips' on a 101FC, they're NOISY (9.00 x 16), & scary as hell in the wet
That said, the petrol V8 counters them to some extent!!


----------



## Badger_Boom (7 Oct 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Thursday 6th
> 
> En-route (circuitously) to York
> 
> ...



I presume you paid the famous Viking door of St Helen's Church a visit.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (7 Oct 2022)

Badger_Boom said:


> I presume you paid the famous Viking door of St Helen's Church a visit.


Not on that visit to the village, but l certainly have on previous occasions


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## Richard A Thackeray (31 Oct 2022)

Very _'Land-Roveresque_' to the rear-end

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/classic-cars/trekka-precursor-of-the-skoda-suv/


----------



## byegad (1 Nov 2022)

Drago said:


> I dont even take it _on _road regularly.
> 
> But on the rare occasions I veture forth it is well suited for a 6'4", 19 stone man, a dog, a child, a wife and her wheelchair. Certainly its much better suited than the supposedly environmentally friendly Polestar 2 that Mrs D bought. The Volvo's split tailgate make loading and unloading the wheelchair wonderfully easy, and neither she or I are getting any younger - im a big husky chap and wrestling a wheelchair in and out the boot of a golf or the like is no fun, and city cars requiring the back seat down are even worse.



We had the same issue and bought an estate car, it looks just like the saloon version but has a low sill with a flat base, no lip, and popping the mobility scooter in is a breeze. No need for a thumping great body moving a huge amount of air out of the way all the time.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (11 Nov 2022)

From my archives

My old 110 (300Tdi)
That was my 2nd Landie, after a wreck of a (1969) 2A Light-Weight

Probably back in 1998 - 1999

_CheeseGate_, or _Scaley Gate Nab_ 
Near Jackson Bridge (see geograph link below, for map)







Bog-standard suspension, at full travel/compression
I could certainly hear the springs moving in their seats






Our 2 Border Collies in the back






https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6508863


----------



## MrGrumpy (11 Nov 2022)

MOT day today , phew . Always a sweat on with the Disco !


----------



## fossyant (11 Nov 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> MOT day today , phew . Always a sweat on with the Disco !



What it actually started and you could get to the testing station


----------



## MrGrumpy (11 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> What it actually started and you could get to the testing station



Passed but advisory on rear pads , so just got the garage to do them now rather than wait ! All clear now till ………


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## Richard A Thackeray (11 Nov 2022)

From my archives


Pendine Sands
June 2000

During a week in Pembrokeshire
At this time, it was still legal to drive on there, at any time


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (11 Nov 2022)

From my archives
_
Dob Park Bridge_
Norwood
(north of Otley)

12th July 2005














https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101295637-dob-park-bridge-norwood#.Y27KV8vP3IV
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4450660
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/108816


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## Richard A Thackeray (12 Nov 2022)

Saturday 12th

They must be paying some of the Sisters too much
(having looked at the price of the M-B!)

No!, seriously, l don’t begrudge the co-ordinating Sister a penny
It’s a very thankless task






I wouldn’t park there, but l’d forgotten something & wasn’t walk-in back down from the top car-park


----------



## Jameshow (12 Nov 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Saturday 12th
> 
> They must be paying some of the Sisters too much
> (having looked at the price of the M-B!)
> ...



You must be on £2500 a shift! 

Where did they get that figure from!! 

Max a Dr might earn would be 1440 for 12hr shift.


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## Richard A Thackeray (12 Nov 2022)

Jameshow said:


> You must be on £2500 a shift!
> 
> Where did they get that figure from!!
> 
> Max a Dr might earn would be 1440 for 12hr shift. know she's not on anything approaching that!!!


She's a friend of mine. & I know she's only on a standard Sisters salary
In fact, I don't think I've seen her do a 'bank shift'


Yes, I've seen the BBC webpage too, the Trusts aren't named
I'd reckon they're all in the South


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## Richard A Thackeray (12 Nov 2022)

From my atchives

_Chainbridge Lane_
east of _The Great North Road_, between Ranskill & Retford
Norttinghamshire

Taken before I changed the lighting to the larger 'NAS' style










Date taken; 11/5/2006
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/179416


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## Richard A Thackeray (12 Nov 2022)

From my archives
Dating from June 2006

_'NAS' lighting_ (North American Specification)
They were far more visible (LED light was available, but pricey back then)






Substantially bigger lenses, & even clearer/'brighter' too!
(someone lent me a 'hole-cutter' of the appropriate diameter)










Upper pair; 'tail & brake'
Lower pair; 'tail & fog'


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (18 Nov 2022)

From my archives

The 110 'Heritage' had green leather, & cream dials!!
It even had a tachometer, the only diesel Landie to have one
The 'NAS specification' 90 & 110 had one, but they were on a 4.0 V8 (I don't think that even the 50th Anniversary 90 had one in the UK market?)

The factory position was to the right, where it was prone to reflections, I'm surprised that testing didn't throw that factor up






I swapped them around, to make it far more visible, & where it really ought to live







Ahh the old 6120(?), microphone stuck on the instrument cowl (speaker in the dash-tray)







I raised the height of the seat a bit, it also gave the impression of sliding it back further, as the squab to pedal distance increased slightly
(& didn't impede, like some aftermarket seat-rails did, in rear passengers legroom






Even the 2 x bench-seats were leather, in the load-space
I'd taken them out in this shot, as they weren't used






Gypsy, one of our Border Collies (died; 2008)


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## Richard A Thackeray (21 Nov 2022)

Monday 21st


Just picked the current (December cover date) issue of_ Land Rover Owner_ up

Crikey!, l remember this magazine coming out, & buying #001 
(there used to be 4 LR specific titles every month!!)

That’s a gorgeous Range Rover!
I’d be happy with it in my garage

I know it’s a 300Tdi, but whether it’s a manual, or auto, l haven’t look at the feature yet










*EDIT; Tuesday 22nd @ 12:59*

Oh no!, it’s an automatic


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## Richard A Thackeray (26 Nov 2022)

I’m not sure where else to put this little snippet of news about the L663
Are they after foreign/'diplomatic' sales?





I read it in the December edition of _Land Rover Owner International_
There's also an incredible 'tree-grabber' 110 featured






*NB; *Everatti also build an electric GT40 replica


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## Badger_Boom (27 Nov 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I’m not sure where else to put this little snippet of news about the L663
> Are they after foreign/'diplomatic' sales?
> View attachment 669275
> 
> ...



My reserve regiment re-roled from Land Rover WMIKs to Jackals about five years ago. The electric trials Jackal is amazingly stealthy compared to the normal diesel one.


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## Richard A Thackeray (28 Nov 2022)

Monday 28th

I’d been told that _YAS_ had a few Kodiaqs, but this is the first l’ve seen
They’ll be replacing Octavia Scouts, for certain roles
(Yorkshire Ambulance Service)

Pinderfields General Hospital
Wakefield


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## Cavalol (28 Nov 2022)

The term 'SUV' sodding annoys me, sorry. 

Anyhow, having previously owned an old ML350 petrol, I fancied another. Should never have sold the last one, it was a brilliant car and the fuel costs didn't really matter as it was a 2nd/3rd/4th/more vehicle. That might sound fancy, but all the other vehicles here are old and unfashionable.
Anyhow, ended up with an elderly (year 2000) ML320 petrol recently and so far, I love it. It's rough as toast but it doesn't matter, it drives as well as these things do and (imho) is a lot less scary than owning either a diesel one or the newer shape, or both. Would love a Range Rover one day, but the reliability seems pretty poor, and an XC90 would be good to try, though not the ticking time bomb Geartronic auto.


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## Jameshow (28 Nov 2022)

Transit stuck in field 4x3?4 t to rescue pics to follow!


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## Jameshow (28 Nov 2022)

Nothing but a LR to the rescue!!


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## Richard A Thackeray (29 Nov 2022)

From my archives

As a follow on (predecessor?) to the _YAS_ Kodiaq, I added yesterday, how about this 90?
Taken in June 2009

When YAS had their workshops on Normanton Industrial Estate (near jct 31/M62.... now closed/relocated), this was stored in the yard
Back then it was called '_WYMAS'_ (West Yorkshire Metropolitan Ambulance Service)


For a few years prior to that, the workshops were at Pinderfields General Hospital, but with the redevelopment/PFI building, the site of the garage (as well as most of the rest of it) was gradually demolished & built on
It was good for Hospital staff, as they could leave a car for a service/MOT test, & pick it up when they finished
Payment was either made there & then, or via a couple of forms, reclaimed at the next payday

it was also a 'peace of mind' for some staff, as they knew the workshop guys, & felt that they could be trusted


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## dan_bo (29 Nov 2022)

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...iggest-ever-action?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other


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## Jameshow (30 Nov 2022)

How about we start unplugging some chargers!🤣🤣😭


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## Jameshow (1 Dec 2022)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26601936...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Nice truck!


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## GilesM (2 Dec 2022)

Jameshow said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26601936...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> 
> Nice truck!



I need to make sure I don't go anywhere near that one when I've had a few beers, if you take off the tipper bed it would be a perfect starting point for a very cool campervan.


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## Richard A Thackeray (2 Dec 2022)

I’ve seen a few Cummins conversations at shows in years gone by (primarily at ‘Billing’)
The 5.9, as used in the late 90s Ram pickups was one of them

Likewise, a few of the bigger Perkins, 6.354(?), some were in combines, so not great in a road vehicle


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## Jameshow (2 Dec 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I’ve seen a few Cummins conversations at shows in years gone by (primarily at ‘Billing’)
> The 5.9, as used in the late 90s Ram pickups was one of them
> 
> Likewise, a few of the bigger Perkins, 6.354(?), some were in combines, so not great in a road vehicle



Why no good in a truck?


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## Richard A Thackeray (3 Dec 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Why no good in a truck?


@Jameshow

From memory, it depended on the variant
Some had limited RPM, due to injector pumps (& maybe cam timing) thus reduced speed for use on the road
(a steady (2,000RPM?) might be okay in a commercial/agricultural situation)

The 6.354 was used in a few Range Rover conversions, but even that tough 4-speed ‘box, that was shared with the 101FC has its limitations


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## Jameshow (3 Dec 2022)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38526313...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Nice rangie...


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## Richard A Thackeray (3 Dec 2022)

Jameshow said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38526313...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> 
> Nice rangie...


Agreed, for the price
The 3.0 diesel is fine in its original location (the BuM-W 3. or 5, series) but is a bit underpowered for the L322
The TDV8's are far better


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Dec 2022)

Monday 5th

2A

_Freeport Shopping Village _
(next to _’Xscape’_)
Glasshoughton
Adjacent to jct 32/M62







https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1072056


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## Richard A Thackeray (Saturday at 22:14)

https://www.overfinchheritage.com/available-vehicles/range-rover-classic-2-door-coupe/


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## Jameshow (Saturday at 22:35)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> https://www.overfinchheritage.com/available-vehicles/range-rover-classic-2-door-coupe/



How much!!


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## Jameshow (Saturday at 22:36)

Much cheaper to buy a early range rover and a Bentley turbo r and ask them to marry them!!


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## gzoom (Saturday at 22:48)

Jameshow said:


> How much!!



I think this is very much a case if you have to ask for the price you 100% cannot afford it sir


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## BianchiVirgin (Saturday at 23:01)

How hideous is that heap.


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## Richard A Thackeray (Sunday at 08:30)

Jameshow said:


> How much!!


I’m certainly not stating l can afford it, but it’s well rebuilt, & still the best shape/model in my mind




Jameshow said:


> Much cheaper to buy an early range rover and a Bentley turbo r and ask them to marry them!!


It’s a Chevrolet LS3 engine (Camaro & ‘C6’ Corvette)
Personally, l’d prefer (in the real-world) a good diesel & manual ‘box
However the quality of the rebuild is excellent


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## Jameshow (Sunday at 09:02)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I’m certainly not stating l can afford it, but it’s well rebuilt, & still the best shape/model in my mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed I thought the l322 looked like an oversized taxi but it has grown on me. 

The discovery 5 is really hideous imho!

I'd love a discovery 4 or a sport.


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## Richard A Thackeray (Sunday at 10:18)

Jameshow said:


> Agreed I thought the l322 looked like an oversized taxi but it has grown on me.
> 
> The discovery 5 is really hideous imho!
> 
> I'd love a discovery 4 or a sport.



L322 looks better than its predecessor, the P38
That was _too much too soon_ & not understood (in terms of complexity)
As for the present........ thing............ it could be a Buick/Lincoln/Lexus??


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