# frame advice



## jonny jeez (21 Mar 2013)

Hi.

I should start by announcing that I know very, very little about bike building or SS conversion...but I'm bitten and fancy a go at building my own.

I've shopped for a while and would just prefer to make something up to my own "design".

So...the first thing I need to do is find myself a frame and to that end, I need to pieces of advice.

1- Where is the best place in the UK to pick them up
2- What type of material/ brand is best.

To let you know that I'm not relying on you lot to do all the work I can say than in answer to point 1, I've trawled Ebay and seen a few that tickle my fancy.

And to point 2, I can say that I am aware I need a roadie type frame, not an MTB. That I need a good long latitudinal drop out not a vertical, that I need to consider a modern continental frame or any european/oriental make so as to avoid dodgy reverse threads and such... and that I need to beware dings and dents. In terms of cosmetic condition, I'm not fussed as I would plan to shock blast, paint and coat the frame before use.

Other than that I have no idea if steel over chomolly/ally is favoured, which brands are "in vogue" etc.

I quite fancy a frame that has intricate joints...are they called butts?.... (I had a reynolds frame tourer as a kid so wouldn't mind revisiting that for sentimentality).

I want to make the bike fit for purpose, and that means a summer commuter that will cover a fair amount of dry miles so perhaps weight isn't the issue and strength is.


any advice?

J


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## Boris Bajic (21 Mar 2013)

If you have friends who cycle, I'd ask around to see if anyone has one they don't want. Cyclists tend to be hoarders and a nice, steel road frame from 20-ish years ago (when horizontal drop-outs were common) would be an ideal place to start.

You mentoion chromoly. You can find it, but it is rarer and may cost.

The thing to look for is good-quality tubing. The 'butting' you refer to is in fact a system for making tubes thinner in the middle and thicker at the ends. Many fairly common or garden manufacturers made models with butted tubing. The fancy-dan pieces holding the tubes together are lugs. Some are fancier than others and some people get very excited about them. If you want fancy lugwork, your search will become harder.

Do not be seduced into buying a lovely-looking frame that is the wrong size. It sounds as if you are building a 'keeper'. The first thing to get right is the frame size. This sounds obvious until a wrong-sized frame starts peeping back at you from eBay.

And... Don't forget that it will be cheaper if you buy a complete bicycle and replace only what you need to replace. If you buy a frame, you may be surprised as the cost mounts with BB. brakes, cabling, bars, both wheels and all the rest of it. If you start with a runner, you may need only to buy a rear wheel, a sprocket and some spacers.

If you're thinking of leaving it as a fixie for eternity, consider asking the spraying folk to cold press the rear gap to 120mm so you don't need spacers.

Also... (Just for fun) if you start with a complete bike, weigh it before you start the build. You will be amazed at the weight loss.

I didn't bother about cosmetics myself, but I'm told that if you care about these things it's cool to remove the darailleur hanger and the various braze-ons for gear cabling and the like. Worth thinking about before the respray.

Have fun. It is a huge rush building up a thing like that.


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## Psyclist (21 Mar 2013)

What's your budget for a frame?

Have a look on Retrobike.co.uk, SingleSpeedComponents and Hilary Stone (I've already set the links on the appropriate sections)

Reynolds 531 is a decent material if weight isn't a compromise and strength is, which is a common material on cheap'ish frames.

Hilary Stone has many parts on their site too, I spent a lot on my bike buying through his site.

Alex.


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## Cycleops (21 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> Hi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These are called 'lugs'. You will generally only find these 'fancy' lugs on older bikes, about pre '80. Expect to pay a premium for these frames, they are much sort after especially if it's from a respected frame bulider.


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## simon.r (21 Mar 2013)

Chromoly is a steel alloy containing chromium and molybdenum - I'll stand corrected but I think the majority of reasonable quality 'steel' bike frames are made of chromoly.

'Ally' is an abbreviation for aluminium (tho' aluminium frames will be alloyed with other metals).

See here for more detail.

I'm biased, but you could do worse than look at On-One's Pompino (or Pompetamine if you fancy discs). I suspect you'll struggle to get a decent second-hand frame and get it painted for much less than the price of a new Pomp.


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## jonny jeez (21 Mar 2013)

simon.r said:


> I'm biased, but you could do worse than look at On-One's Pompino (or Pompetamine if you fancy discs). I suspect you'll struggle to get a decent second-hand frame and get it painted for much less than the price of a new Pomp.


Blimey they are cheap.

nice dropouts too I'm told fixed bikes can leap out of forward facing dropouts. not sure if that an urban myth or not.

...so is is considered naff to use a frame like this if I want to go for a retroish look, I shan't want discs, so will those unused lugs look odd?

you are right though, a frame at circa £50 and a paint for another £100 doesn't compete with this...and its good to go.

J


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## simon.r (21 Mar 2013)

The Pompino will only take V's or cantis, the Pompetamine only discs. The Macinato will take caliper brakes - IME it's quicker handling / more flickable than the Pomps, whether that's good or bad is your call

Naff? Who knows?! I don't think so, but I'm hardly an arbiter of cycling style


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## Basil.B (21 Mar 2013)

At the moment I have a _Pompino_ and a _Macinato_.
Both are good value frames, though the Macinato is lighter and quicker handling.
The _Pompino_ is a good winter bike, I have just built up the _Macinato_ for summer use.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Mar 2013)

If you have all the bits, a frame might be a good move, but as Boris says, buying bits can end up being a pricey business. If it were me, I'd look out for a good old bike made in 531 or, better yet, 653/753 (they do come up, if you're patient) - chances are a bike like that will come with good 'bits' from headset to pedals to wheels to saddle to seat post to bottom bracket to etc. The only new bits you'll need then are a new single chainset (you *can* just use one ring of a double, but it doesn't look right) and a single sprocket. (If you do go this route, try to get a freewheel, not a cassette. Cassette wheels can be converted, but freewheels are a lot simpler: just screw off the freewheel, screw on the sprocket.) You'll also need to re-dish the wheel. Much easier than you might assume.

Highly recommended! The build is enjoyable in its own right, and the riding is in a class of its own.


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## Psyclist (21 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> *...so is is considered naff to use a frame like this if I want to go for a retroish look, I shan't want discs, so will those unused lugs look odd?*
> 
> 
> 
> J


 
Take a look at my old Macinato. I went for a retro type look on it.


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

Psyclist said:


> Take a look at my old Macinato. I went for a retro type look on it.


Blimey, if it were to swap the frame colour thats almost exactly the bike i'm looking to build.

But hold on, where are the disc lugs on yours, 

Very nice

Edit, just read all the replys, i see its the macinato...i assumed that was a type of style that you had gone for when i read your post

I'm such a noob


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> If you have all the bits, a frame might be a good move, but as Boris says, buying bits can end up being a pricey business. If it were me, I'd look out for a good old bike made in 531 or, better yet, 653/753 (they do come up, if you're patient) - chances are a bike like that will come with good 'bits' from headset to pedals to wheels to saddle to seat post to bottom bracket to etc. The only new bits you'll need then are a new single chainset (you *can* just use one ring of a double, but it doesn't look right) and a single sprocket. (If you do go this route, try to get a freewheel, not a cassette. Cassette wheels can be converted, but freewheels are a lot simpler: just screw off the freewheel, screw on the sprocket.) You'll also need to re-dish the wheel. Much easier than you might assume.
> 
> Highly recommended! The build is enjoyable in its own right, and the riding is in a class of its own.


A very good point.

The pomino looks good (although if i were fussy im not sure i like the rear stay design...my mtb has that single point seat tube design ( dont know the tech name ). So id opt for the macinato if i went that way

Tempted though. Very tempted

The big point is, as you and boris quite rightly point out, that i'll need forks, bottom brackets headsets etc...i'm looking at this old falcon frame right now.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111034036413?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I could use the bottom bracket, polish the crank, chainring and the headset, just swap out the chainring bolt things and remove the small chainring, perhaps replace the forks as and maybe grind off the rear mech lugs.

What does this look like...it ends today so i may just pick it up regardless if it stays this cheap.


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> If you're thinking of leaving it as a fixie for eternity, consider asking the spraying folk to cold press the rear gap to 120mm so you don't .



I'm fascinated by this comment but have no idea what it means...can you elaborate for me pleae?


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## swee'pea99 (22 Mar 2013)

The rear gap is the distance between the rear droputs - where the wheel goes. Obviously when you replace a freewheel block with a single sprocket there's a bit of space (the sprocket being that much thinner), so ideally you want to reduce that gap - from (typically) 126mm to 120mm. Personally I've never bothered, but that's what purists do and that's what Boris means.

As to the frame you're looking at, TBH, unless you're in a big hurry, I'd wait for something nicer to come along. I once had one of those old Falcons, and it was a bit of a clunker - heavy and ungainly, not much fun in the ride. Frame is everything, so if it was me, I'd be looking for 531 at the minimum. My own fixie was built up from an old 653 Dawes I got off ebay for a song, and it's an absolute joy to ride. Unless you're in a big hurry, I'd take my time and wait for the right one to come along. Something like this, perhaps...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-R...1174243452?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item3f233e947c


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## Boris Bajic (22 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> I'm fascinated by this comment but have no idea what it means...can you elaborate for me pleae?


 
As above.

I'm not a purist, but my frame had to be straightened after a side-on collision so I askd them to squish the rear gap at the same time at no extra cost.

I wouldn't have bothered had the frame not been banana-ed in an accident, but I do prefer it now and it's simpler whipping the wheel in and out.

If I were a purist, I'd have removed the cable guides and the rear hanger... but they are all still in place.


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## Psyclist (22 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> Blimey, if it were to swap the frame colour thats almost exactly the bike i'm looking to build.
> 
> But hold on, where are the disc lugs on yours,
> 
> ...


 
I make worse mistakes! And Macinato's are a great bike to build on, a tad heavy, but I liked mine. My 531 Mercian frame set is lighter however.


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> As to the frame you're looking at, TBH, unless you're in a big hurry, I'd wait for something nicer to come along. I once had one of those old Falcons, and it was a bit of a clunker - heavy and ungainly, not much fun in the ride. Frame is everything, so if it was me, I'd be looking for 531 at the minimum. My own fixie was built up from an old 653 Dawes I got off ebay for a song, and it's an absolute joy to ride. Unless you're in a big hurry, I'd take my time and wait for the right one to come along. Something like this, perhaps...
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-R...1174243452?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item3f233e947c



Thats fantastic thanks.

The reynolds frame you link to has a lot...actually almost all of...the extra "stuff" that i'd want to add too, so it may actually be pretty good value too, even down to original cable clips, which i like.

Who knows i may even have a stab at that one tonight.

Thanks for the explanation on the rear gap. I chuckled as i read it because this morning i was thinking of challenges and was wondering how i get a thinner hub to fit in the stays on a bike that was designed for a cassette...i was imagining a stack of spacers or something.

At least i'm on the right track i guess, i just need to polish up on my technical expressions.

Thanks all.


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

One more thing....and this probably deserves its own thread but, would i be right in assuming that having a frame that has nice lugs, powder coated, could loose much of the definition of all the frilly bits.

If so, whats the best way to repaint, good ol'fashioned respray?


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## swee'pea99 (22 Mar 2013)

Unless you spend a _lot_ of money on something really fancy, you're not going to get really nice lugs. I'd go for something like a high-end Raleigh/Dawes/Peugeot and get it powder-coated. (Incidentally, as for 'stacking' the rear axle, that's exactly what I did, using cheapo washers like these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M10-10mm-...rial_Nails_Fixing_MJ&var=&hash=item27c4149787

Not the most elegant solution, but it works.


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## Cycleops (22 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> One more thing....and this probably deserves its own thread but, would i be right in assuming that having a frame that has nice lugs, powder coated, could loose much of the definition of all the frilly bits.
> 
> If so, whats the best way to repaint, good ol'fashioned respray?



No you won't loose too much definition after a resray, you can always pick out the lugs in a contrasting lining colour.

Respray or powder coat. A good job won't be cheap.


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## Psyclist (22 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> One more thing....and this probably deserves its own thread but, would i be right in assuming that having a frame that has nice lugs, powder coated, could loose much of the definition of all the frilly bits.
> 
> If so, whats the best way to repaint, good ol'fashioned respray?


 
I got a quote of £50 added on top of the £90 for my Mercian for the lugs as they have to re-lap over the paint. Very tricky job for a painter to do. So I stuck with one colour, then I'm using one of these pens to lug line. If you decide to do what I did, don't buy a chalk type pen as they wash off. They have to be paint versions.


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> . Something like this, perhaps...
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-R...1174243452?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item3f233e947c


 
Decided against having a bid, but am watching it to see how it goes.

Not keen on Canti brakes and not sure I can convert them so will let this one "escape" me for now. only a few minutes to go till its sold anyway.


Edit...£82....not bad.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Mar 2013)

Those sorts of bikes come up all the time, and you can usually pick 'em up for £100 or so. The main thing to look for is a frame that's the right size for you, and good tubing - 531, 653, 753 - not just because the frame's the most important bit, and good frames are way nicer than second-rate ones, but also because the bits fittted to better bikes (which such 'good tube' bikes are) will all be of a higher quality. (I noticed that that one, eg, had Shimano 600 gears - not that you need gears for what you have in mind, but it's a sign of the kind of quality you can expect to find in wheels, BBs, headsets and so on.

Incidentally, those weren't canti brakes but calipers, and you'll find them fitted to *all* old bikes like these. They're fine. Virtually all good modern racing bikes will have brakes like those (apart from the fact that those particular ones were centre-pull, which you don't see nowadays...but they're ok.)


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> .
> 
> Incidentally, those weren't canti brakes but calipers, and you'll find them fitted to *all* old bikes like these. They're fine. Virtually all good modern racing bikes will have brakes like those (apart from the fact that those particular ones were centre-pull, which you don't see nowadays...but they're ok.)



So do centre pull brakes have the same lugs as modern...side pull...calipers.

I assumed not, but it would be interesting to know as it was the only thing that stopped me bidding on that example... I really don't like to idea of the fuss of centre pull brakes on my little project


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2013)

Psyclist said:


> Take a look at my old Macinato. I went for a retro type look on it.


I'm still considering your frame, but cant find any in my size. also the colour options are limited to just red or blue and i didn't fancy either this time round


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## swee'pea99 (23 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> So do centre pull brakes have the same lugs as modern...side pull...calipers.
> 
> I assumed not, but it would be interesting to know as it was the only thing that stopped me bidding on that example... I really don't like to idea of the fuss of centre pull brakes on my little project


I'm not sure what you mean by 'lugs', but basically the only real difference with centre-pull brakes is that they have to have a sort of mounting point for the cable - one for each brake - like this:




And on old bikes, you sometimes find these have got damaged or even broken, which can be a nuisance. If they're replaceable, like the one in the pic, it's no great disaster - your LBS will probably have one knocking about - but some are part of the frame, and that can be a nuisance. Overall though, centre pull brakes are ok. Plus they were all the rage back in the '70s-'80s, which means you can always find them going on ebay for a song if you have any problems.


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by 'lugs'.



With canti's there's a mounting point on each stay, do centre pulls have any additional mounting pints on the frame or are they mounted via a central bolt through the middle of the brace at the top of the stays..(i couldnt se any other mounting pointsnin the images ofnthat example)...like modern calipers.

If the answer is that they both mount the same, then i'll be kicking myself for not bidding on that, so feel free to lie for my sake.


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2013)

So that you can see where my head is, this is my design "dream"... the one that keeps me awake at nights!!.

if only on-one did an off white paint job, the forks are the same, geometry is similar...I'd be done by now!


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## Old Plodder (23 Mar 2013)

Centre pulls could have a bridge piece that bolted onto the frame, or on better quality frames (hand built) had braze ons.
Their position would not suit cantilever or V/straight pull brakes. Plus, centre pulls were fitted to bikes that used 27" wheels, not 700c.


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## swee'pea99 (23 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> With canti's there's a mounting point on each stay, do centre pulls have any additional mounting pints on the frame [nope] or are they mounted via a central bolt [yup] ...like modern calipers.
> 
> If the answer is that they both mount the same, then i'll be kicking myself for not bidding on that, so feel free to lie for my sake.


See the nutted bolt almost in the middle of the image?





That's the only mounting. Same at the front end.


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## dandare (23 Mar 2013)

Why not have a look at Dolans website. He does a cracking fixed frame complete with forks, headset, seatpost, with mudguard eyes for just over £200.00.
By the time you finish faffing around trying to find an old frame with horizontal dropouts. Then maybe having to cold set the rear dropouts for a track wheel plus a respray. It will always be a compromise. Better off with frame designed ffor the job.


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## Psyclist (23 Mar 2013)

dandare said:


> Why not have a look at Dolans website. He does a cracking fixed frame complete with forks, headset, seatpost, with mudguard eyes for just over £200.00.
> By the time you finish faffing around trying to find an old frame with horizontal dropouts. Then maybe having to cold set the rear dropouts for a track wheel plus a respray. It will always be a compromise. Better off with frame designed ffor the job.


 
My parts for my 'budget' build Mercian cost nearly £400 in total for the build. However, I got my frame cheap (£80) I think if Jon buys a cheap 531 retro frame though, and doesn't respray it, he should be able to build a cheap'ish bike. Where as a Dolan would cost more to build on.

Jon, you never did tell us your budget


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## monkeylc (23 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> So that you can see where my head is, this is my design "dream"... the one that keeps me awake at nights!!.
> 
> if only on-one did an off white paint job, the forks are the same, geometry is similar...I'd be done by now!


 
that is gorgeous


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## jonny jeez (24 Mar 2013)

Psyclist said:


> Jon, you never did tell us your budget


 
well, i started with a view if building a bike for less than the price of a semi decent shop brand. on that basis i looked at £400 as about right using the charge plug as a guide.

thing is, as i've gotten more and more fussy, i now want more from the build than i can get for that price, an old frame/ paint will set me back a good £200-£250 and a new frame probably a little more, wheels probably not far off that as well.

so now i don't really have much of a total budget in mind, what I hope to do is get the frame, paint, bars, callipers and cables for under £400 than wait and finish the rest over time with smaller purchases each month...sort of a wheel a month, that way ...in the world of Jonny...those extra bits are free! or kinda forgotten about.

i do realise that my total build is likely to be twice that budget after choosing the right saddle, seat post, headset and pedals, let alone the crank and i'm ok with that as its a very personal thing, you"ll notice i foolishly plan to brand the bike under the clear coat, with my name...this isn't just a fashion statement its a sign of my intention to make this a keeper.


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## jonny jeez (24 Mar 2013)

Ok, its not a "traditional" frame but it's made for the job, comes in the right colour (so I may not need to respray) and has internal cable routing, which appeals to the clean lines thing, the right size gap, proper drop outs

so what do you guys think of this frame from Dani Foffa

http://foffabikes.com/components/frames-and-forks/prima-2012-creme

...I would just need to figure out how to remove the logo


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## Psyclist (24 Mar 2013)

jonny jeez said:


> Ok, its not a "traditional" frame but it's made for the job, comes in the right colour (so I may not need to respray) and has internal cable routing, which appeals to the clean lines thing, the right size gap, proper drop outs
> 
> so what do you guys think of this frame from Dani Foffa
> 
> ...


 
Very nice, looks just the job. Threaded headset too. Not too sure on how you'd remove a painted on logo though as it'd need sanding down and repainted over.


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## jonny jeez (26 Mar 2013)

So, I've been shopping and dropped over to Foffa to take a look (and feel) at their Prima frame. Danii Foffa is surprising in many ways but most of all because of how tall he is, I thought he looked tiny on the web shots.

Any how the prima is a good looking frame which feels light and reasonably stiff, has a drilled top tube for inner cable routing and is finished really well.

Danii offered great and very helpful advice, talked for a while about how best to build up on my own (offering some really helpful hints) and even offered to help put a bundle price together for the odd bits that I need. ...oh and he also told me the frame comes with or without decals...all great, positive stuff.

I had the cash in my wallet to buy one there and then...but didn't... something was nagging at me.

Nothing to do with the frames, they look superb to me, nor Foffa themselves, Danii seemed genuine, helpful and clearly wanted me to pick the right frame... for me.

What was nagging was the look. I didn't know what it was but his (and the frames over at brick lane) all looked "odd" to me in their geometry and this was the point.

I've leanrt a lot already from you guys and from 'tinternet and visiting shops and what i didnt...perhaps still don't...understand is the term "compact".

I thought a compact frame was a frame with a small triangle, which was achieved by shortening the length of the seat tube and kinda sloping the top tube to meet. What I now (at least i think i now) understand is that compact effects the length, not the height of the frame.

So Danii's frame, and BLB's and most others, are all kind of tall looking...bit ladder-ish and for a tall chap like me, this is stretched still further as you upsize the frame.

To the extent that the frame I was going to buy made me feel like I was "perched" atop the bike as opposed riding with it.My arms felt almost vertical and not stretched out and I sat almost upright. This tall look seems very in-vogue right now and I accept that, but i need a frame that allows me to commute 40 miles a day in comfort, and that feels familiar so that I dont confuse my tiny brain when i switch to the roadie on the odd day.

So, after all that banging on, what geometry do you recommend...compact...or traditional?

oh, and for what its worth, what's your understanding of the difference between them.


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## Old Plodder (27 Mar 2013)

A compact frame is when it fits the same sized rider but uses (some) shorter tubes, supposedly making for a more rigid frame.
I say 'supposedly' because you either have a rigid frame or you don't.
Your 'dream bike' has track geometry, which will make it accelerate quickly & will have 'fast' steering.
If you're an experienced cyclist it will feel 'lively', if you're not, it will feel 'twitchy'.


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## Star Strider (27 Mar 2013)

dandare said:


> Why not have a look at Dolans website. He does a cracking fixed frame complete with forks, headset, seatpost, with mudguard eyes for just over £200.00.
> By the time you finish faffing around trying to find an old frame with horizontal dropouts. Then maybe having to cold set the rear dropouts for a track wheel plus a respray. It will always be a compromise. Better off with frame designed ffor the job.


In my experience a decent 531 frame with 126mm drop outs will bolt up just fine on a 120mm hub, they tend not to need cold setting as they have plenty of spring to them.

Surly have even produced frames chromo frames with a middling OLN so you could swap between different hub types.


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## jonny jeez (28 Mar 2013)

fatmac said:


> A compact frame is when it fits the same sized rider but uses (some) shorter tubes, supposedly making for a more rigid frame.
> .


 
This is kind of how I always understood it.

problem is I cant tell the difference on sight now. Take a look at theses.

this is a traditional road frame, or so I am informed by a few bike shops.





and this is a compact... apparently, although I cant see a difference, if anything it looks like it has a taller seatpost, therefore bigger geometry





I always assumed that this was a compact frame, with a slopy top tube and smaller triangle and typically more seat post showing




Its tricky, not because of the frustrating phraseology but because i cant buy anything online without knowing for sure if its compact or not.

that Charge is looking more and more appealing...


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## Old Plodder (28 Mar 2013)

Well the white bike is not a compact by any way of looking at it, it is a traditional road frame, possibly with a very slight down sloping top tube so that the bars can be positioned lower. Generally speaking, a (rearward) sloping top tube is a compact frame.
Lots of people seem to enjoy their Charge bikes, so I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## jonny jeez (28 Mar 2013)

fatmac said:


> Well the white bike is not a compact by any way of looking at it, it is a traditional road frame, possibly with a very slight down sloping top tube so that the bars can be positioned lower. Generally speaking, a (rearward) sloping top tube is a compact frame.
> Lots of people seem to enjoy their Charge bikes, so I don't think you'll be disappointed.


My point exactly, yet I am told emphatically (By Daii Foffa himself) that it is a compact track frame?

it seems the term Compact is used to describe a multitude of frames.


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## simon.r (28 Mar 2013)

I posted this on another thread about frame sizing, but I think it's relevant here. The Charge definitely isn't a compact frame, the Pompino I'd suggest is probably semi-compact. If you have a frame you're happy with the obvious answer is to get a frame with similar dimensions and then tweak the position with the stem length and rise. I've also fitted a slightly longer and lower rise stem to the Charge pictured since I took this photo. This is my first drop bar bike for years and I'm still adjusting to the difference from flat bars:

Here are two of my bikes. One has a 570mm seat tube, the other has a 630mm seat tube - both measured centre to top. The ETT on the Charge is about 10mm longer than the Pompino (590mm and 580mm resepctively). They both fit me well Which I think demonstrates that there's a massive range of adjustment that can be made by altering the seat-post and stem, and if you don't mind a bit of fork steerer showing!








Edit - I'm 6'2" but have disproportionately long legs (not_ that_ disproportionate, I'm not freaky looking!), so in an ideal world I'd probably have a 'large' size frame for the seat tube length and a 'medium' for the top tube length I'd rather have a shorter stem than an extra long seat-post, but you may prefer otherwise. It's a balancing act for those of us who don't have body shapes that conform to manufacturers norms.


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## Bike_Me (13 Jun 2013)

Jonny, any chance you'd be able to share what you went with?


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