# Forum rides



## totallyfixed (22 Oct 2012)

It seems like I or someone else brings this up once a year. We need more forum rides, that's it really, there are [as last year and the year before.....] a dearth of forum rides outside of certain areas. There appears to be a black hole in the middle, plenty going on in the London area and up north but not a lot elsewhere. It is a great pity because I think it is fairly safe to say that once you have been on one you generally come back for more. Nothing scary about them, everyone is sociable and what a great way of meeting others on the forum.
I realise not everyone has transport to get to all parts of the uk and so we need more ride leaders in more areas. I have lost count of the forum rides I have been on and can honestly say I have enjoyed them all. CC membership continues to grow so it would be of interest to me to find out how many would like to go on a forum ride but don't, and their reasons for not doing so.


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## dan_bo (22 Oct 2012)

I've stopped going on them 'cos Fossy doesn't know what 'fixed friendly' means.


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

People just need to post a ride.
If only 1 other turns up then you have a group ride. 
Post a good report and next time you get more people.

The Sunday London Rides original started with myself and Mista Preston of this parish just out for a quick training ride and it expanded from there.
The most we have had joining the ride was 24 people.


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## Spinney (22 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> it would be of interest to me to find out how many would like to go on a forum ride but don't, and their reasons for not doing so.


 
I went on one, local area*, very nice route. Advertised as leisurely pace, so I thought I would be able to keep up. Fairs fair, the organiser did try to make it a leisurely pace, but the others did not. No-one complained about having to wait for me, but I didn't really like being the one at the back almost all of the time.

(At one point, when I had been struggling into the wind a bit, a couple of obviously stronger riders who had got behind caught me up and instead of helping me by letting me draft them, slotted in _behind_. Thanks chaps.).

And being the only woman - not from any unease from the blokes, but more from feeling that I was reinforcing the stereotype of the 'weak and feeble'. Someone (ColinJ?) said that most of the women that go on the rides tend to be as fit as most of the blokes. Well, exactly. Maybe they are the only ones who feel confident in being able to keep up?

So, no-one did anything wrong, really, and it was a lovely route, but it didn't really enthuse me to go on another one. Maybe if I get a bit fitter...

This *isn't* meant as a winge - just an explanation...


*local to where I was living at the time


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## StuAff (22 Oct 2012)

"If you arrange it, they will come"


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

There is a problem as Spinney point's out that people really don't like to feel that they are holding a group ride up.

Though taking into consideration each riders ability on a group ride is a tough call.

Most forum group rides usually runs on the premise of 'we ride at the pace of the slowest'.
This usually works well in practice however, sometimes it just doesn't work. Especially if the route means you have timed/planned places for lunch, cafe stop etc and need to get people back home for certain times. So it it a fine balancing act.

One of the reason we started the 'Speedy rides for food' last year was that the ride was to help push oneself to ride a little harder, longer and faster then a normal group ride with a minimum of 100 miles.
Even though this was stated very clearly on the threads we still had people not happy as they felt that they were being excluded from the ride due to the speed, mileage etc.

As to the lack of ride leaders. Organising a ride does take a lot of time and planning.
There are meeting places, times, stops and ends all to consider. Making of route maps. Recce'ing of the route. Checking all the riders are turning/turned up and getting them home again.
It's a lot of work. But put in a little effort and it's all worthwhile. You only need 1 other to turn up and you have a group ride.
Some people are natural leaders who love all the organising, some are just happy to turn up and ride.


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## totallyfixed (22 Oct 2012)

Spinney said:


> I went on one, local area*, very nice route. Advertised as leisurely pace, so I thought I would be able to keep up. Fairs fair, the organiser did try to make it a leisurely pace, but the others did not. No-one complained about having to wait for me, but I didn't really like being the one at the back almost all of the time.
> 
> (At one point, when I had been struggling into the wind a bit, a couple of obviously stronger riders who had got behind caught me up and instead of helping me by letting me draft them, slotted in _behind_. Thanks chaps.).
> 
> ...


 From experience this would seem to be one of the biggest reasons for either not having a go or not going again and that is a shame. If Colin said that, and I know Colin, I think he is probably being accurate there, in fact it isn't impossible to have a lady on a forum ride who is quicker than all the blokes [], however, and this is the important bit, an experienced leader will recognise the fitness / skill levels in a mixed group and should control the ride accordingly. 
I would always encourage anyone who is not sure to pm me first so I can allay their fears. Some rides are quicker but should be clearly advertised as such.


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## Night Train (22 Oct 2012)

I've been on group rides where I was the slowest.
What it meant was that everyone would wait for me at the top of the hill and the moment I got here they would set off again. All very well but that meant that they all had a rest while I was slogging it up the hill with no chance of a stop.

I ride differently now, where the group has a gentle amble between cafes more for the tea, cake and company then for the blistering pace.

Having said that, I haven't been on a ride for a long while now due to still recovering from my rupture achillies. I can do about 3-4 miles at a time I reckon whereas before I was happy for about 20 - 30 miles with a cafe stop and working towards my imperial century.
My next 'ride' will be a York to Whitby night ride, except I will be taking the car, with the bike rack, to take people to train stations for their return trips. 

I suppose, for the OP, if there are no local forum rides posted then starting one would be a good start.


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## ColinJ (22 Oct 2012)

Spinney said:


> Fairs fair, the organiser did try to make it a leisurely pace, but the others did not. No-one complained about having to wait for me, but I didn't really like being the one at the back almost all of the time.


I should point out that I have been relatively unfit for the past 4 years so I have often been trailing at the back of my own forum rides so I know what you mean! It was a bit embarrassing for me, but I wanted to do the rides so I organised them anyway. 

There were one or two rides where I felt that some stronger rides _were_ getting a wee bit too frisky at the front and leaving me trailing a mile or more behind, but generally everyone moderates their pace so it doesn't get silly.

There were a couple of long early season rides where the combination of impending darkness and lack of lights was becoming an issue so we split into two groups and the faster light-less riders went on ahead.


Spinney said:


> (At one point, when I had been struggling into the wind a bit, a couple of obviously stronger riders who had got behind caught me up and instead of helping me by letting me draft them, slotted in _behind_. Thanks chaps.).


That's not on !


Spinney said:


> And being the only woman - not from any unease from the blokes, but more from feeling that I was reinforcing the stereotype of the 'weak and feeble'. Someone (ColinJ?) said that most of the women that go on the rides tend to be as fit as most of the blokes. Well, exactly. Maybe they are the only ones who feel confident in being able to keep up?


Hmm - I was thinking in terms of there being quite a few (relatively) 'weak and feeble' male riders (including me) so don't worry about it, but I see what you mean - it could be interpreted as 'only very fit women need apply'! 

I always meant to organise an easier forum ride to encourage people who otherwise wouldn't come on one, but somehow I never got round to it. Well, the alert among you will be aware that I have had serious health issues since July so when I finally get back on a bike, I will be needing to take it easy for at least a month or two and will definitely organise a _forum ride-lite_! I'll make it a 2-looper, calling back into Hebden Bridge for a cafe stop, and getting someone else to lead the 2nd loop because I won't be up to it. That way we can all take it easy on the first loop and leave the stronger riders to do their own thing after we pack up for the day!


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## martint235 (22 Oct 2012)

Spinney said:


> I went on one, local area*, very nice route. Advertised as leisurely pace, so I thought I would be able to keep up. Fairs fair, the organiser did try to make it a leisurely pace, but the others did not. No-one complained about having to wait for me, *but I didn't really like being the one at the back almost all of the time.*
> 
> *(At one point, when I had been struggling into the wind a bit, a couple of obviously stronger riders who had got behind caught me up and instead of helping me by letting me draft them, slotted in behind. Thanks chaps.).*
> 
> ...


How does a rider stop you being at the back and let you draft them? 

I go on quite a few group rides and I also think it must feel pretty horrible to always be at the back. I think it's particularly bad at the end of a long ride as it's starting to get dark and you see the little red lights start to disappear into the distance. That's why, as one of the stronger riders, I drop back so that I'm last in line. I'll do my best to encourage you but sometimes people are just so tired that they just want to get home. I'll help do that and make sure they aren't on their own.

If I try to let people draft me, particularly someone who is tired, the chances are they won't be able to hold my wheel. I hope it's better that I stay behind so that they know they aren't the back.

I'm not having a go just trying to explain the other rider's point of view.


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## Spinney (22 Oct 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Hmm - I was thinking in terms of there being quite a few (relatively) 'weak and feeble' male riders (including me) so don't worry about it, but I see what you mean - it could be interpreted as 'only very fit women need apply'!


 
I didn't think that was what you meant, Colin. I think you were just making a comment that many of the women who _had_ come on forum rides were fit.


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## Spinney (22 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> How does a rider stop you being at the back and let you draft them?


 
I probably didn't say what I meant very clearly - I've no problem with being 'at the back' if this means being in the last group, being allowed to draft someone for a rest.

When it gets discouraging is when you come around a corner to see a long straight bit of road ahead, _with no-one on it_...


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## potsy (22 Oct 2012)

I think there is sometimes a problem with the very mixed ability forum rides, like Colin I'm usually the one at the back trying to keep up, it can get a bit dis-heartening to see people tearing off up a hill while you struggle up it, only to see them set off again as soon as you get to the summit 

There have also been 1 or 2 times I can remember the front group getting so far ahead as those at the back were not able to keep them in sight and have maybe missed or almost missed a turn.
I suppose this happens more the larger the numbers, keeping an eye on 4 or 5 is much easier than 15-20.

But even with these slight problems I have never once regretted turning up for a forum ride (well maybe just the Trawden ride Colin) as the benefits certainly outweigh the negatives for me


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## martint235 (22 Oct 2012)

Spinney said:


> I probably didn't say what I meant very clearly - I've no problem with being 'at the back' if this means being in the last group, being allowed to draft someone for a rest.
> 
> When it gets discouraging is when you come around a corner to see a long straight bit of road ahead, _with no-one on it_...


 Yep that's why I stay at the back. I think I help by letting you know that you're not on your own on that stretch of road.

What's worse is when a taxi beeps as he overtakes and you set off to chase him and then you look behind and there's a long straight, EMPTY stretch of road behind you.Then you realise that you missed the turning a mile back!! Not that this has ever happened to me....


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## phil_hg_uk (22 Oct 2012)

potsy said:


> There have also been 1 or 2 times I can remember the front group getting so far ahead as those at the back were not able to keep them in sight and have maybe missed or almost missed a turn.
> I suppose this happens more the larger the numbers, keeping an eye on 4 or 5 is much easier than 15-20.


 
Particularly when the ones at the back stop to gawp at boats on the canal


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## mcshroom (22 Oct 2012)

I organised my first forum ride last month (on another forum  ) and it does take a bit of effort before, and during the ride. I would recommend others try it out though as it's rewarding when you get to the end.

As for being slowest, I've been there and it's not fun. I know the worry is what stops some people riding, and I won't ride a Superspeedy FNRttC for this reason, but on the forum rides I've been on (with CC Ecosse, dell, yacf) I have never been left behind and the faster riders have usually been sensible (sprinting for breakfast in Brighton apart  ) not to keep blasting off into the distance. 

For a group leader it is bad form to let people drop too far off the back, and definitley bad manners to set straight off when the last rider makes it to the top of the hill. I treat riding like hill walking when I was a Scout, you go at the speed of the slowest and make sure there's plenty of rest stops (it's not just that I need to keep stopping for breath honest ).


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## coffeejo (22 Oct 2012)

I'm up for organising a ride in this neck of the woods but - and I mean no offence to any of the CC guys in Somerset - the thought of being the only woman in the company of a small number of men I don't know is, well, you know...


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## mcshroom (22 Oct 2012)

coffeejo said:


> I'm up for organising a ride in this neck of the woods but - and I mean no offence to any of the CC guys in Somerset - the thought of being the only woman in the company of a small number of men I don't know is, well, you know...



Spinney's not far away from you now though


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## ColinJ (22 Oct 2012)

coffeejo said:


> I'm up for organising a ride in this neck of the woods but - and I mean no offence to any of the CC guys in Somerset - the thought of being the only woman in the company of a small number of men I don't know is, well, you know...


So what you need is ... for _more_ men to turn out? 

Joking apart ... I suppose you'd need to make sure that you had at least one other woman to come along before you officially announced the ride.

I would definitely feel a bit nervous if 5 or 6 women that I didn't know turned up for one of my rides and no men did!


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## theclaud (22 Oct 2012)

coffeejo said:


> I'm up for organising a ride in this neck of the woods but - and I mean no offence to any of the CC guys in Somerset - *the thought of being the only woman in the company of a small number of men I don't know is, well, you know...*


 
Great?  Seriously, though - there's a co-operative spirit about group rides that makes them a very unlikely environment for hassle and harassment. People look after each other. The worst you are likely to encounter is an excess of gallantry from the CTC. I am always joining groups of strange men (some as strange as @rich p) in the middle of nowhere, and have never encountered anything that gave me cause for concern. And if you organize a ride, any women who are worried about rides being dominated by men will be reassured by the fact that it is a woman organizing it. Win win.


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## zizou (22 Oct 2012)

I've have not done any cc rides so this is more of a general point than a specific one. 

It can be disheartening being the slowest rider and it shows a lack of respect from a group is always pushing on and leaving someone behind or starting off again as soon as they reach the top of the hill without getting a break etc. But IMO the respect has to go both ways with slower riders thinking about the others on the ride too. Personally I would rather ride alone and make my own way than be holding up everyone constantly and expect them to curtail their enjoyment to suit mine.

For a couple of years i was involved in organising rides on a mtb website. There were complaints about rides being too short, too fast, too slow, too long, too easy, too difficult and so on which is fair enough but the complainers never bothered organising rides themselves so it got a bit annoying hearing the criticism. You would then tailor a ride that was easier or harder and try and appeal to more people...and often those that had been complaining didnt bother turning up anyway!


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

zizou said:


> There were complaints about rides being too short, too fast, too slow, too long, too easy, too difficult and so on which is fair enough but the complainers never bothered organising rides themselves so it got a bit annoying hearing the criticism. You would then tailor a ride that was easier or harder and try and appeal to more people...and often those that had been complaining didnt bother turning up anyway!


 
Indeed. We seem to come across this very problem which soured the rides a little.
It just seem's you can't please all the people all the time.


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## musa (22 Oct 2012)

It's hard organising a ride but give it go and see. I did London to Guildford. And only one turned up so off we went. 

On the SMRbtH I'm the slowest but credit to @ianrauk who always waits for me. I dnt know if I'm just keeping up or they stepping off the gas. 

Must be me


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## DiddlyDodds (22 Oct 2012)

This year due to so many comitments i only managed to get one one ride (Fossy's Joderal Bank one) and really enjoyed it.

So now the forementioned comittments are done and dusted i look forward to getting more forum rides in.


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## Jodee1kenobi (22 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Indeed. We seem to come across this very problem which soured the rides a little.
> It just seem's you can't please all the people all the time.


 

Just a suggestion but in our club when we are organising rides we have set paces (easily kept to with cycle computers) 

Easy pace avg 8mph
slow medium avg 9mph
medium avg 10mph
fast medium avg 11mph
fast avg 12mph
fast + avg 13mph
fast ++ avg 14 mph
etc........

We state the pace/distance, so everyone knows what to expect. It also means that you shouldn't get faster paced riders on slower rides and the other way round. Worth a try? It works well within our club. The avg speeds might seem low to some on here, but we (Stourbug) are a bicycle user group/social cycling club rather than racing. It just helps to have a framework to work from.


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

@Jodee1kenobi

The problem wasn't the speeds rather then we were organising rides that people thought they were being excluded from.


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## Spinney (22 Oct 2012)

zizou said:


> I've have not done any cc rides so this is more of a general point than a specific one.
> 
> It can be disheartening being the slowest rider and it shows a lack of respect from a group is always pushing on and leaving someone behind or starting off again as soon as they reach the top of the hill without getting a break etc. But IMO the respect has to go both ways with slower riders thinking about the others on the ride too. *Personally I would rather ride alone and make my own way than be holding up everyone constantly and expect them to curtail their enjoyment to suit mine.*


This ^
Not just the discouragement of being at the back, but the feeling that I am holding the others up.



> For a couple of years i was involved in organising rides on a mtb website. There were complaints about rides being too short, too fast, too slow, too long, too easy, too difficult and so on which is fair enough but the complainers never bothered organising rides themselves so it got a bit annoying hearing the criticism. You would then tailor a ride that was easier or harder and try and appeal to more people...and often those that had been complaining didnt bother turning up anyway!


Been there - in a walking club. But same thing - people say they want something different, so you organise it and they don't come. Then they want something different again... Will they organise something themselves? No. Lead a walk themselves. No.


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## totallyfixed (22 Oct 2012)

Club rides are easier to organise because after initially joining everyone knows exactly what to expect, not so on a forum ride, and if you live where you see club riders out and about that can give a false impression of what you might expect to see on a forum ride. I can well understand that riding with strangers [and it doesn't matter how much you have chatted with them on here] is going to be of concern if you haven't done it before, 99% of first timers will have some degree of nervousness.
I often make the route up as I go along tailoring it to suit those less strong, We are all different, some can climb, most can't but that is usually because they come from a flat area. Several people who have been on my rides in the past have come back again much stronger, so I also see forum rides as a place to improve and learn a bit. I suppose the only criteria I have is that you can average 10 mph on your own over 25 + miles, any slower and we just wouldn't make it to the tea stop and back.
Speaking of which the next Rutland forum ride is either 17th or 18th of November [waiting for a couple of oracles to tell me which] and will also be the flattest one so far. It should be up in informal rides sometime this week.


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## Jodee1kenobi (22 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> @Jodee1kenobi
> 
> The problem wasn't the speeds rather then we were organising rides that people thought they were being excluded from.


Ahh I see.


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## Sandra6 (22 Oct 2012)

I quite like the idea of a forum ride but I'm put off by the distances and speeds that seem to be expected. 
I am relatively slow -particularly uphill - and don't like to go further than 20/30 miles - due to my slowness and time taken to get home again. I can generally only escape for a few hours in a day.
I'm also put off by the weather. 
And if I wake up with a headache.
And by lack of cake.
Days with a y in them??!!!
I did a test earlier, it said I was anti-social
Ride anyone??


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## Night Train (22 Oct 2012)

The funniest thing I had happen, on a little group ride when I was struggling up a hill, was Spandex putting his hand on the small of my back and pushing me, faster then I ride down hill, all the way up to the top!
IIRC he even told me to stop pedaling.


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## mcshroom (22 Oct 2012)

I completely blew up on the first Pedal for Cake ride heading into Edinburgh. I'd bitten off more than i could chew having averaged nice speeds on a short commute, and then trying to stick with a pace that I wasn't comfortable with (if you think it's too fast, say so and they should slow down a bit!). We eventually split up so that the group that were heading back to Glasgow could get to Tele and HJs in time to turn round, but I cannot tell you how patient and supportive Scoosh and Seamab were as they hung back and slowly coaxed me to the half way stop 

No one gets left behind really does mean that on forum rides in my experience.


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## ColinJ (22 Oct 2012)

Night Train said:


> The funniest thing I had happen, on a little group ride when I was struggling up a hill, was Spandex putting his hand on the small of my back and pushing me, faster then I ride down hill, all the way up to the top!
> IIRC he even told me to stop pedaling.


I had someone do that for me climbing the Col de Rates on the Costa Blanca, only he had his hand at the back of my saddle so I didn't know that he was doing it - I thought I'd suddenly got fit!


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Oct 2012)

I'm not bothered in principle about an all guys ride, with me being the only woman, nor about me being the slowest, if I know my own way, that is.
Apart from the fear of getting lost, I don't mind being left behind.
But then what would be the point of going on a CChat ecosse ride for me?
I might as well go explore on my own, take my time, meet other CChatters on a night out or similar.
Also, I work most weekends.


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## Vikeonabike (22 Oct 2012)

It's been alleged I don't exist... which may explain why i havent been on any of TFs rides! I am riding to Rutland water tomorrow with my works chaingang!


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## Vikeonabike (22 Oct 2012)

I've now organised several rides for works collegues. The only really troublesome part keeping the rides together is the hills. However we all tend to regroup for a breather and a chat at the top. First one up has to go to the back and stay with the last person until the top of the next hill.


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## totallyfixed (22 Oct 2012)

Vikeonabike said:


> It's been alleged I don't exist... which may explain why i havent been on any of TFs rides! I am riding to Rutland water tomorrow with my works chaingang!


Pm me the route and timings and I may be able to pop out and say hello, unless of course this is a virtual ride


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## dave r (22 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Club rides are easier to organise because after initially joining everyone knows exactly what to expect, not so on a forum ride, and if you live where you see club riders out and about that can give a false impression of what you might expect to see on a forum ride. I can well understand that riding with strangers [and it doesn't matter how much you have chatted with them on here] is going to be of concern if you haven't done it before, 99% of first timers will have some degree of nervousness.
> I often make the route up as I go along tailoring it to suit those less strong, We are all different, some can climb, most can't but that is usually because they come from a flat area. Several people who have been on my rides in the past have come back again much stronger, so I also see forum rides as a place to improve and learn a bit. I suppose the only criteria I have is that you can average 10 mph on your own over 25 + miles, any slower and we just wouldn't make it to the tea stop and back.
> Speaking of which the next Rutland forum ride is either 17th or 18th of November [waiting for a couple of oracles to tell me which] and will also be the flattest one so far. It should be up in informal rides sometime this week.


 
I was nervous about my first forum ride, I wasn't sure why, I'd been club riding for most of the last 25 years and knew the distance wasn't going to be a problem. In the end I worked out that it was because the ride was a big unknown, on the club rides its generally three groups and I know the groups and what pace was involved, the training ride is generally too fast, if I'm going well I might hang on for a couple of miles buts thats about it, with the veterans I did that ride for years but these days I need to push to stay with them and eventually I start going of the back on the hills, the family ride tends to go shorter and slower than I want to go. I turned up and did my first Forum ride, enjoyed it and then found that with the other two I looked forward to doing them and just enjoyed them.


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## StuAff (22 Oct 2012)

musa said:


> It's hard organising a ride but give it go and see. I did London to Guildford. And only one turned up so off we went.
> 
> On the SMRbtH I'm the slowest but credit to @ianrauk who always waits for me. I dnt know if I'm just keeping up or they stepping off the gas.
> 
> Must be me


I did join you for a bit! 

They're easing off- they do it for me too. You're doing them a favour


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## StuAff (23 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> @Jodee1kenobi
> 
> The problem wasn't the speeds rather then we were organising rides that people thought they were being excluded from.


+1.

On my own, I don't pootle. My speeds may be some people's pootling, but not mine. I like to move at the kind of pace where I'm working hard, but sustainably so- which is generally something in the region of 12-16 mph (overall, not rolling). So the rides for food were/are (I hope we're not done with those!) perfect training for me before the LeJOG travesty, and they proved a real benefit to my fitness levels (I remember Abs and Frank told me I was looking stronger last autumn, and I think they were right). There was the intention of getting to the halfway stop at a reasonable time for lunch, and of getting back to the smoke for early evening, and the advice on speeds was given with that in mind. Slower Less fast people- and I was one of them at times- were welcome, but the idea was to help them progress with their riding- in other words, 'I didn't know I could ride that far/fast, until I did'. Certainly worked for me, hope it did for others. People didn't get left behind, even when they had dropped off the pace a bit (and yup, that was me too). They were still fun rides too of course! 

That said, the more pootly rides suit me too. As TMN rightly mentions, an organiser should do a ride that they want to do, and at a pace that they want to do. And as to getting left behind, been there, done that, certainly wouldn't do that to others.... if in doubt, treat people as you would wish to be treated, and remember that everyone on the ride is responsible for everyone else. Slower Less fast riders are not a burden and should never be made to feel (or told) that they are. When I was doing mile after mile on my own trying to chase a dot on the horizon in Scotland last year, I knew I wasn't a burden, and I knew there was no reason for me to be dropped, except selfishness and poor organisation. If the ride leader sets the wrong schedule, or didn't make their intentions on pacing clear (or changes them)...that's their problem, not the riders. Trains run late. Roads close. It rains. It gets blowy. People have days where they're more than capable of riding, but aren't at their best. None of those factors are immovable objects that stop people having a good time, but leaders need to allow for them. Everyone I've ridden with off here, YACF and BikeRadar's done that!

Might well have a go myself some time....


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## totallyfixed (23 Oct 2012)

Good post Stu, another point I would like to make is that once a ride gets established you can look up what they were like, photos, comments etc. I think getting the first one off the ground is the hardest both for the organiser and participants.


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## 400bhp (23 Oct 2012)

I'd be happy organising some open rides. Perhaps I'm at the other end of the spectrum where, because of my fitness levels, time pressures of having a family, I don't particularly enjoy riding at a slow pace (slow, for me, would be less than 14mph rolling average on the road) and don't particularly relish spending the entire day on the bike..

It's just the way I am. :shrug:

I think it's very very important to set a level of expectation on a ride, i.e. make it clear what the average speed is likely to be, whether people should wait, frowned upon if disappear into the distance etc.


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## ashworthacca (23 Oct 2012)

After many years of being slightly overweight and unfit I have returned to cycling to do something about it. I'd love to come along to a forum ride but like others have said I'd feel concious about holding up the group. I'll be keeping an eye out though.


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## PpPete (23 Oct 2012)

400bhp said:


> I'd be happy organising some open rides. Perhaps I'm at the other end of the spectrum where, because of my fitness levels, time pressures of having a family, I don't particularly enjoy riding at a slow pace (slow, for me, would be less than 14mph rolling average on the road) and don't particularly relish spending the entire day on the bike..
> 
> It's just the way I am. :shrug:
> 
> I think it's very very important to set a level of expectation on a ride, i.e. make it clear what the average speed is likely to be, whether people should wait, frowned upon if disappear into the distance etc.


 
Unfortunately not everyone who turns up is actually quite as capable of maintaining a given "average speed" (even when posted clearly in advance) as they think they are.
One rider** on the one and only forum ride I organised, was ok-ish at the back of the pack for the first 30 miles, but started to die rapidly thereafter, which meant that the tea-shop planned for the afternoon break was long closed by the time we got there.

I've not organised another, not because of this, but simply because what time I have for rides has been devoted to AUDAX SR and RRTY that I can ride at precisely my own pace - ( a bit slower than 400bhp)

**_He knows who is, and would be the first to admit it - and he's still a mate, despite my insulting him at every opportunity on this and other forums_


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## defy-one (23 Oct 2012)

not waiting is just plain rude. a fast rider can always go off on a speed run after the ride over or poiltely say he will do this section and meet the others at point x.
why do a group ride if all your going to do is speed off :crazy

i can ride at 15 mph average for 30 miles, not sure after that .... tba


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## ColinJ (23 Oct 2012)

I make it pretty clear what to expect on my rides by cutting and pasting this warning into each thread:



colinj said:


> It will be slow, slow, slow. Don't come along and complain about it being slow. IT WILL BE SLOW! (We won't be riding quickly ... )


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## smokeysmoo (23 Oct 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I make it pretty clear what to expect on my rides by cutting and pasting this warning into each thread:


You really need to GWS Mr J so I can experience one of your rides, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say they were slow


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## Crackle (23 Oct 2012)

PpPete said:


> Unfortunately not everyone who turns up is actually quite as capable of maintaining a given "average speed" (even when posted clearly in advance) as they think they are.
> One rider** on the one and only forum ride I organised, was ok-ish at the back of the pack for the first 30 miles, but started to die rapidly thereafter, which meant that the tea-shop planned for the afternoon break was long closed by the time we got there.
> 
> I've not organised another, not because of this, but simply because what time I have for rides has been devoted to AUDAX SR and RRTY that I can ride at precisely my own pace - ( a bit slower than 400bhp)
> ...


 
Has he still got the same bike now as then


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## Crackle (23 Oct 2012)

I've only made a couple, they've been great. I don't mind being at the back and I'm so used to riding on my own, that I ride at my pace anyway.

I admire anyone who organises a ride because despite it looking easy, it's not, there's more to a successful one than just rocking up to ride.


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## PpPete (23 Oct 2012)

Crackle said:


> Has he still got the same bike now as then


 
Now that IS a silly suggestion....16 months have gone by since then !


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## martint235 (23 Oct 2012)

I think expectation is key. I completely agree that the ride should wait for slower riders but it can be frustrating at times to spend all day on a ride that should take 4 hours. Of course there will also be days when even the strongest of riders can suffer and that has to be considered.

My other bugbear is faffing. As I do tend to be at the back fairly regularly and while accepting that the people I'm with may be in need of a slight breather, the shout of "All up" isn't a signal to open your saddlepack and start looking for something at the bottom of it. Or to start calling people on your phone.


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## Vikeonabike (23 Oct 2012)

Surely the point of a Forum ride is that it is "All inclusive". They are designed to be a social get together of people that enjoy being on a bike. We all have a duty to encourage others to get out on two wheels. Not putting pressure on those at the back is the best way to encourage. Forum rides don't happen all that often so it won't hurt those that consider themselves racing snakes to actually have slow ride out every now and again. Put something back into cycling and encourage others!


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## totallyfixed (23 Oct 2012)

Vikeonabike said:


> Surely the point of a Forum ride is that it is "All inclusive". They are designed to be a social get together of people that enjoy being on a bike. We all have a duty to encourage others to get out on two wheels. Not putting pressure on those at the back is the best way to encourage. Forum rides don't happen all that often so it won't hurt those that consider themselves racing snakes to actually have slow ride out every now and again. Put something back into cycling and encourage others!


Exactly, a forum ride is a social ride, not a training ride or a "beat my chest and look at how good I am" ride. If there was a call for fast rides on the forum then surely we would see a lot more requests for them. A fast ride by the way would be around 17 mph over rolling terrain and 19 mph on flat stuff, I digress. For me a forum ride is about meeting new people, catching up with others and riding new routes.
Today I met vikeonabike, he actually does exist and I rode a bit with him, amazing!


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## ianrauk (23 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Exactly, a forum ride is a social ride, not a training ride or a "beat my chest and look at how good I am" ride. If there was a call for fast rides on the forum then surely we would see a lot more requests for them. A fast ride by the way would be around 17 mph over rolling terrain and 19 mph on flat stuff, I digress. For me a forum ride is about meeting new people, catching up with others and riding new routes.
> Today I met vikeonabike, he actually does exist and I rode a bit with him, amazing!


 

There was/is a call for faster forum rides.
Of the 12 'speedy' rides we did last year we never had less then a dozen riders on any one ride.
The reason we stopped doing them was as I posted previous. We got fed of people moaning thinking that we were excluding them from rides. Whilst not organising rides themselves.

There can be rides for everybody. It's just that people have to organise them and for some people it's just too much work. Which is a shame.


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## Fubar (23 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Exactly, a forum ride is a social ride, not a training ride or a "beat my chest and look at how good I am" ride. If there was a call for fast rides on the forum then surely we would see a lot more requests for them. A fast ride by the way would be around 17 mph over rolling terrain and 19 mph on flat stuff, I digress. For me a forum ride is about meeting new people, catching up with others and riding new routes.
> Today I met vikeonabike, he actually does exist and I rode a bit with him, amazing!


 
I totally agree with both Vikeonabike and Totallyfixed - if you want to ride fast join a club surely? I've now been on a few CC Ecosse forum rides and never felt pressured to keep up with the fastest, which is just as well! Most CC rides I've been on average around 12-13 mph. There would be no point posting "no-one gets left behind" then firing off into the sunset at the first opportunity - I actually find most cyclists who are worried about their first ride to be a lot better than they anticipate beforehand! And a lot better than me. And if it annoys you waiting for others, then maybe CC Rides just aren't for you...


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## Fubar (23 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> There was/is a call for faster forum rides.
> Of the 12 'speedy' rides we did last year we never had less then a dozen riders on any one ride.
> The reason we stopped doing them was as I posted previous. We got fed of people moaning thinking that we were excluding them from rides. Whilst not organising rides themselves.
> 
> There can be rides for everybody. It's just that people have to organise them and for some people it's just too much work. Which is a shame.


 
To be fair I agree that if you make it clear it's going to be a fast ride I don't have a problem with that - and I for one would know to steer well clear...


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## ianrauk (23 Oct 2012)

@Fubar
Has anyone on this thread actually said they have been annoyed at waiting?
*goes back to check*


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## Fubar (23 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> @Fubar
> Has anyone on this thread actually said they have been annoyed at waiting?
> *goes back to check*


 
Didn't say they had, and maybe "annoyed" was the wrong word - just thought the general feeling on the thread was that holding faster riders up was putting people off CC Rides. As stated in my reply if it is clear it is a fast ride then slower riders should know to steer clear


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## ianrauk (23 Oct 2012)

Fubar said:


> Didn't say they had, and maybe "annoyed" was the wrong word - just thought the general feeling on the thread was that holding faster riders up was putting people off CC Rides. As stated in my reply if it is clear it is a fast ride then slower riders should know to steer clear


 

Yes you a right.
I can see why people would get despondent at the thought of being left behind (Stuaff excepted - as he just keeeeeeps on going with a grimace smile on his mush ). No one should get left behind and on our rides I am proud to say that was/would never be the case.


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## ColinJ (23 Oct 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> You really need to GWS Mr J so I can experience one of your rides, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say they were slow


If I ever do manage to *When* I finally get well enough to organise another forum ride, it is likely to be as slow as all the others and you would be welcome to join us for a local scenic tour!

I'm hoping that I will eventually be capable of riding a lot quicker up the hills because I have lost so much weight, but it will take time to build back up to that fitness level. Having gone on so much about slow rides, I'd have to make damn sure that I didn't become the one haring off at the front!

The last forum ride I did was the one to Otley back in July. It was one of my typical hard and hilly routes. I was struggling even more than usual on some savage gradients, and in windy conditions, and at one point came within a minute or two of a full-blown bonk but was saved by donations of sugary snacks from the other riders. I kept people waiting for ages at the top of every climb, but nobody moaned at me. At least on that ride I did have a decent excuse for my slowness - I was only days away from collapsing with a pulmonary embolism!


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## ianrauk (23 Oct 2012)

If people want organised rides... then get organising. It's does takes a little time and effort, but boy is it worth it in the end.

If anyone who want's a few pointers in how to organise a ride then put a shout out, Myself, Colin, MartinT, DelZ, Lukesdad, The Scottish mob and other's who organise group rides would be more then happy to help.


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## 400bhp (23 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Exactly, a forum ride is a social ride, not a training ride or a "*beat my chest and look at how good I am"* ride. If there was a call for fast rides on the forum then surely we would see a lot more requests for them. A fast ride by the way would be around 17 mph over rolling terrain and 19 mph on flat stuff, I digress. For me a forum ride is about meeting new people, catching up with others and riding new routes.
> Today I met vikeonabike, he actually does exist and I rode a bit with him, amazing!


 
Does that include those that refuse to go in the smaller front ring too?


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## martint235 (23 Oct 2012)

400bhp said:


> Does that include those that refuse to go in the smaller front ring too?


There's a smaller front ring??


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## potsy (23 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> There's a smaller front ring??


There's a big ring?


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## martint235 (23 Oct 2012)

potsy said:


> There's a big ring?


Well it all depends. If the ring you're using has 53 teeth, chances are you're in the right one!!


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## potsy (23 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> Well it all depends. If the ring you're using has 53 teeth, chances are you're in the right one!!


My one at the back has 53


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## mcshroom (23 Oct 2012)

Just looked and i use the big ring a lot - 42's quite a big gear isn't it


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## dave r (23 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> Well it all depends. If the ring you're using has 53 teeth, chances are you're in the right one!!


 
I don't have a 53 on my geared bike, my big one is 48 but I don't use it, I'm always on the 42, I hope I'm doing it right?




mcshroom said:


> Just looked and i use the big ring a lot - 42's quite a big gear isn't it


 
its all I use when I'm on gears, it is quite big I think?


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## ColinJ (23 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> There's a smaller front ring??


There are two of them! (For some of us ...)


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## martint235 (23 Oct 2012)

ColinJ said:


> There are two of them! (For some of us ...)


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## StuAff (23 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Yes you a right.
> I can see why people would get despondent at the thought of being left behind (Stuaff excepted - as he just keeeeeeps on going with a grimace smile on his mush ). No one should get left behind and on our rides I am proud to say that was/would never be the case.


You see, the thing is, with you lot I know (i) You will be waiting up the road sooner or later and (ii) If there is a turn, it will be marked. As opposed to (please insert rant about the NotLeJOG here). Despondency reduced considerably by those two factors!


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## phil_hg_uk (23 Oct 2012)

ColinJ said:


> The last forum ride I did was the one to Otley back in July. It was one of my typical hard and hilly routes. I was struggling even more than usual on some savage gradients, and in windy conditions, and at one point came within a minute or two of a full-blown bonk but was saved by donations of sugary snacks from the other riders. I kept people waiting for ages at the top of every climb, but nobody moaned at me. At least on that ride I did have a decent excuse for my slowness - I was only days away from collapsing with a pulmonary embolism!


 
Probably a good job they decided to dig up the road up the chevin colin otherwise you would have tried to cycle up it which wouldnt have been a great idea.


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## ColinJ (23 Oct 2012)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Probably a good job they decided to dig up the road up the chevin colin otherwise you would have tried to cycle up it which wouldnt have been a great idea.


Yes - I might not have made it back without the aid of a taxi!  (Or an ambulance ... )


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## Vikeonabike (24 Oct 2012)

TF uses two rings.. one at the front and one at the back!


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## 400bhp (24 Oct 2012)

Vikeonabike said:


> TF uses two rings.. one at the front and one at the back!


 
I'll let you into a secret - he has a geared bike :shockhorror:, :tumbleweeds:, :dartmissesboard:


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## Vikeonabike (24 Oct 2012)

400bhp said:


> I'll let you into a secret - he has a geared bike :shockhorror:, :tumbleweeds:, :dartmissesboard:


He did mumble something about gears.. but said he didn't know how to use them!


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## 400bhp (24 Oct 2012)

Vikeonabike said:


> He did mumble something about gears.. but said he didn't know how to use them!


 
That rings true.


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## totallyfixed (24 Oct 2012)

To clear things up, my tourer / Audax bike has gears for reasons that shouldn't need explaining, my geared road bike is just that and is used when I anticipate hills of greater steepness than 17%, it is equipped with a triple which in my experience is way better than a compact, but that's another subject. My mountain bike has gears too, again for obvious reasons. My fixed is ridden probably more than 95% of the time , it is a Pearson with a 75" gear and 175 cranks. Finally "totallyfixed" was chosen for having more than one meaning. Hope that's all cleared up then.
Back on topic, I have no problem on a forum ride with people climbing hills at their own speed, it is the one thing on a ride that is guaranteed to split riders up, not a problem, it's expected and happens on club rides. I personally know several top time triallers in this country who can average more than 25 mph over considerable distances but grovel on hills, just the way it is although quite easy to improve.


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## Vikeonabike (24 Oct 2012)

Oh well that is one forum myth dispelled. Mind you I would struggle on a 7% hill on a 75" gear never mind 17%.


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## Seryth (24 Oct 2012)

I'm a bit late to the party here, but a note about what I've seen regarding group rides on other cycling forums.

Quite often, in the "group rides" section, or "meetups" or whatever else you care to call it, there is a sticky at the top of the list of threads. That sticky may read something like this:
Then for every group ride, the template *must* be in the OP, and filled in. Such as this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Start point/time:
-info
End point/time:
-info
Trip distance:
-info
Average speed:
-info
Terrain:
-info
Route:
-info
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Filled in, it might look something like this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Start point/time:*
-Totnes Station, South-West Devon. (Trains run regularly through Totnes from most mainline stations). We'll meet at about 11AM, if everyone can get there for that time. If not, we can re-arrange the time..

*End point/time:*
-Plymouth Station, South-West Devon. (Trains to all mainline stations). End time whenever we get there! (If you're booking trains, perhaps book one for a while later than the expected time we should arrive in Plymouth, rather than earlier. Better to have to wait than miss your train!

*Average speed:*
-10 - 14MPH

*Terrain: *
-Well surfaced, decent roads. There is a lot of up/down, the steepest | incline is 12%, and lasts about 1KM.

*Trip distance:*
-Approximately 26 miles.

*Route:*
-We'll start off by going towards xyz, then move up along through | abc. After wxy, it's all along the A***, which is very straight forward.
There's a nice pub, the "Queens Arms" that we could stop at, if we
like. (About halfway through), discuss below?
Route link: http://www.some_map_link.etc/mymap
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This method of setting up groups rides is very efficient, and gives all the info you need right there in the first post....just a suggestion. Sorry for the weird layout of this post too


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## totallyfixed (24 Oct 2012)

Now do you see where you went wrong? There are no other cycling forums and if there were, we don't talk about them. The second thing to note is that having led rides for more years than you have been alive, I still don't always know where I am going until I have met everybody and even then I often chuck in changes depending on how early / late we are running and how everyone is feeling. I can't print out routes because the Garmin is in my head, and very cheap it is too.
Thank you for the suggestions though, I'm sure they are well meant , come on a forum ride.


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Oct 2012)

I would hate a scripted ride and predefined route, the best thing about the forum rides I have been on is that I get to see area's I do not know, its an adventure, an unknown..... I follow a predefined route on my commute to work, I do not wish to experience this on my days off


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## Seryth (24 Oct 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Now do you see where you went wrong? There are no other cycling forums and if there were, we don't talk about them. The second thing to note is that having led rides for more years than you have been alive, I still don't always know where I am going until I have met everybody and even then I often chuck in changes depending on how early / late we are running and how everyone is feeling. I can't print out routes because the Garmin is in my head, and very cheap it is too.
> Thank you for the suggestions though, I'm sure they are well meant , come on a forum ride.





V for Vengedetta said:


> I would hate a scripted ride and predefined route, the best thing about the forum rides I have been on is that I get to see area's I do not know, its an adventure, an unknown..... I follow a predefined route on my commute to work, I do not wish to experience this on my days off


 
S-sorry
Yeah, I'm not saying that it's the best way to do it, but it seemed people here were complaining about the group ride arrangements, so I posted something that I'd seen before, somewhere else.
I've never been on a forum ride myself by any account, so I've got no idea about whether the cyclists always stuck to the "plans" or whether they changed completely. All I'm trying to say is that when I saw that way of organising a ride on this other-forum-that-doesn't-exist, I thought "Oooh, that's a clever way of doing it".
Sorry if I came off in a way that was saying "Your method is shoot, use this one!" I wasn't supposed to at all.


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## StuAff (24 Oct 2012)

Some rides- most I think, really- do have prearranged routes, a lot of people will do GPXs ready for use by those with Garmins.


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## totallyfixed (24 Oct 2012)

Don't worry about it, you meant well and a lot of us on here can be right p*** takers which seems to get worse as the darker nights close in.


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## Seryth (24 Oct 2012)

Heh, it's all the built up energy from not enough cycling during the winter months!


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## NotthatJasonKenny (25 Oct 2012)

As the slowest rider in the little group I ride with (occasionally!) I can understand how it can put people off at the thought of others having to wait for them. It's the kind of pressure you don't need when sweating your tators off but I'm lucky that its a friendly bunch who tell me they don't mind!

If the ground rules are set from the start that's its a fast forum ride then people can opt out but I think a forum ride should be about inclusion not chest beating!

Besides, one rider I know starts off at 25mph and is glad of the rest waiting for me when I finally catch up! (Looking at you smokeysmoo!)


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## 400bhp (25 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> I would hate a scripted ride and predefined route, the best thing about the forum rides I have been on is that I get to see area's I do not know, its an adventure, an unknown..... I follow a predefined route on my commute to work, I do not wish to experience this on my days off


 
Aren't most rides scripted or predefined? Someone has to predefine them, it's just that you don't know that they are.


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## wiggydiggy (25 Oct 2012)

I havent been on any rides through this site as since joining I joined a local group and use their group rides instead, couple things I've picked up from those and the comments here:

'Not waiting' - as a back of the pack rider I had a couple of occasions where I caught up (top of hill usually) to see people starting to set off, at which point I'd shout "Oy! You've just had a rest, now I want one so you can wait". If thats you as well you really need to speak up so they know its been unfair.

'Its a fast/long/short/slow/on road/off road ride, are you sure?' - There's nothing wrong with raising expectations up front for people, even on the day, so that if someone that is coming/has come for a ride and is obviously not suited they are saved a wasted trip and others can enjoy what is supposed to happen. Famously with my group on a short ride (10-15 mile) a father brought his daughter along who was on a kids toy trike!


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## Sittingduck (25 Oct 2012)

It's about communication. People aren't mind readers. I have been on plenty of forum rides when I have been one of the slower riders and certainly slowest uphill. Likewise I hae been on rides when I have been one of the stronger riders. I'm happy to go fast and happy to wait for others and likewise if I'm bringing up the rear happy to ask folk to give me 2 mins when I have crested a hill, if they have tried to set off straight away (although this scenario happens less these days  ). People are generally very reasonable and don't like to cause issues for others, so the best way is to pipe up if the pace is too fast, too slow or whatever. Nothing wrong with a ride stretching out a little bit and infact I would say that it's safer, on downhill sections. It's very very difficult to cater for everybody perfectly, on these rides. All you can really do is try a few out and decide on which ones you sign-up for, based on previous experiences


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## Rob3rt (25 Oct 2012)

Also, clinging onto a slightly too fast ride with all you are worth is a very very good way to improve your own cycling! Not really a social situation, but it is definitely an experience that helps you in the long term.


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## Mr Haematocrit (25 Oct 2012)

400bhp said:


> Aren't most rides scripted or predefined? Someone has to predefine them, it's just that you don't know that they are.


 
The rides I have been on in London most certainly were not predefined or scripted and seemed to adapt to the time people have available and what they wish to see that day. Although a number of people have great knowledge of London, I am not aware of any planning which takes place for this ride.


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## ianrauk (25 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> The rides I have been on in London most certainly were not predefined or scripted and seemed to adapt to the time people have available and what they wish to see that day. Although a number of people have great knowledge of London, I am not aware of any planning which takes place for this ride.


 

No planning really.
Though I usually have one as back up if others haven't got a plan.
So yet's it's made up on fly as to peoples suggestions.


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## 4F (25 Oct 2012)

I have been on a fair few forum rides and have experienced both end of the scales. I kidded myself a few years ago that I was fit and went and did one of TF's fixed Rutland rides. Never have I been so embarassed at my shocking level of fitness and fair play to TF who kept with me all the way, changed the route midpoint to cut out a fair few hills and even was helping pushing me towards the end. Not once did he moan and stuck with me.

I vowed to that day that never again would I be so under prepared and it is why I always try and head to Rutland to support his rides in thanks to the support he (and Dr_Pink) showed me on that day.

As long as the mileage, time, start and end point are mentioned then these things can always be tweaked and is they way they work best


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## wiggydiggy (25 Oct 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> Also, clinging onto a slightly too fast ride with all you are worth is a very very good way to improve your own cycling! Not really a social situation, but it is definitely an experience that helps you in the long term.


 
Unless (shock! ) your not actually out to improve and instead just want to bimble around with friends looking at stuff and stopping for coffee/cake.

Not every ride is a sports/training ride and I think the misunderstanding by people that _haven't_ been on any sort of group ride that it isnt always a case of us all trying to be Bradley Wiggins that puts them off?

And of course on the flipside of that its no use the like of me coming on a training/fast ride as I'll simply make my excuses and slink off early


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## lukesdad (26 Oct 2012)

as Ian has said its a question of percevering the welsh group started with myself banjo and TC for a long time but since the group has grown and the rides are now well supported. They re not for everybody, but we try to make it evident what the rides will entail, unless we re trying to hoodwink some one in particular to come along  she knows who she is ! but even then I think she enjoyed it in the end. Didn t you ! The thing is don t get disheartened if at first you don t get many turning up. Keep organising word will get round and the numbers will swell.

Having said that Im not organising any more coz they all moan too much


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