# Asthma



## Timotheog (30 Jul 2014)

Hi all, just wondering if any of you have asthma and enjoy cycling? Does it make your asthma worse? Have you found cycling helps overall?

I'm just getting into road cycling and have been asthmatic since a boy, generally I find myself able to cope more on the bike as apposed to running, etc.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (30 Jul 2014)

Hi

I'm a severe asthmatic - 8 or 9 sets of meds to control my asthma plus a nebuliser, plus various other medical complications as a result of my asthma meds or damage to my lungs & throat from my asthma etc. I don't let it stop me and even cycle the 50 mile round trip to see my severe asthma consultant! He thinks this is great btw. Staying fit helps to keep my asthma under control and allows me to do more, but you have to get fit first which is always the difficult part. Just take it easy and don't worry too much about speed and be sensible about it and you will be fine. Just learn to listen to what your body is telling you. 

How bad is your asthma if you don' mind me asking?

SNSSO


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## Rickshaw Phil (30 Jul 2014)

A lifelong asthmatic here who has been classed as severe in the past. Fortunately, in my case cycling has never induced an attack (unlike running) and as the rides have got more adventurous and my fitness has improved so has the asthma.

Last year my reliever inhaler time-expired before running out of doses for the first time ever and I couldn't honestly tell you when I last had to take a puff from from the current one (think it was probably about 4 months ago.)

I realise that everyone is different but for me the cycling really has made a massive difference.


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## ColinJ (30 Jul 2014)

Can I ask you asthmatics a question about asthma?

I have been wondering recently if the lung damage I suffered from DVT/PEs has left me with a mild case of asthma. My breathing has recovered very well from my illness, but I find myself very short of breath now until I have warmed up on a ride. After about 15 minutes of effort, I feel fine and have no further problems while riding.

What worries me most is that I get random bouts of shortness of breath when at rest. I don't think they are clotting related because an embolism is there all the time. When I had my PEs, I was short of breath for weeks, not minutes.

The thing is, I don't experience any wheeziness. One minute my lungs are working fine, the next, I feel as though I have been whisked up to high altitude without an oxygen mask!

As long as I avoid getting into a panic about it, the problem typically goes away after a few minutes.

I was wondering if any of you experience asthma in that way? I had thought that asthma always causes wheezing, but read recently that sometimes it does not.

I am seeing my consultant soon, so I will bring the subject up with him, but would like to know about other people's experiences. 

Cheers!


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (30 Jul 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Can I ask you asthmatics a question about asthma?
> 
> I have been wondering recently if the lung damage I suffered from DVT/PEs has left me with a mild case of asthma. My breathing has recovered very well from my illness, but I find myself very short of breath now until I have warmed up on a ride. After about 15 minutes of effort, I feel fine and have no further problems while riding.
> 
> ...




you don't need to be wheezy to have asthma/asthma type symptoms. I don't often get wheezy to the audible stage at least not without a stethoscope. My asthma is not usually the wheezy type. I get very short of breath though and it can take between 30 mins and a hour before my lungs have warmed up enough for me to cycle 'hard'. It could also be that there is other damage to the lungs. My constant coughing from the issues I had last year with chest infections and my asthma and 3 months in bed as a result have damaged by lungs and my throat leaving me with bronchiectasis and tracheomalacia. Both are permanent damage and I have to learn to live with the implications and their affects and one of them also causes me to get really short of breath and cough a lot (usually at night). I think that is the tracheomalacia...

Edit: don't want to worry you, but have you read this http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/bronchiectasis/Pages/Introduction.aspx


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## byegad (30 Jul 2014)

I use 1200mg of Budesonide a day and a Montelukast tablet as preventers, plus occasional use of Terbutaline if I feel tight.

If I haven't cycled for a few days I do tighten up so I try to get out at least three days a week on the trikes. No issues so long as I'm not already tightening up. In other words I feel my Asthma is better controlled when I'm riding. 

IF I feel short of breathing capacity while riding I use my reliever and ease off the work load until I am breathing clear and easy. To do otherwise is likely to overload your heart.


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## John the Canuck (30 Jul 2014)

only slightly asthmatic - under control with inhalers morning and evening - so cannot really comment

but ''out of breathe stop periods for recovery'' on inclines/hills have decreased
... so i'm guessing the lung exercise on the bike is indeed helping

PS

also switched to goats milk....


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (30 Jul 2014)

John the Canuck said:


> only slightly asthmatic - under control with inhalers morning and evening - so cannot really comment
> 
> but ''out of breathe stop periods for recovery'' on inclines/hills have decreased
> ... so i'm guessing the lung exercise on the bike is indeed helping
> ...


Sadly I have had to go completely dairy free now - but I am significantly better for it.

I have also noticed that if I do get tight or wheezy when I am cycling, the worst thing I can do (for my asthma and me) is to actually stop! I loose my breathing pattern and will then have an asthma attack. If I can carry on cycling, just ease off and take my inhaler whilst cycling, I can clear the problems without an attack. I can also walk & swim to my heart's content (or at least could until a dog redesigned my leg) but I can not for the life of me, and have never been able to, run and control my asthma!


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## Rickshaw Phil (30 Jul 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Can I ask you asthmatics a question about asthma?
> 
> I have been wondering recently if the lung damage I suffered from DVT/PEs has left me with a mild case of asthma. My breathing has recovered very well from my illness, but I find myself very short of breath now until I have warmed up on a ride. After about 15 minutes of effort, I feel fine and have no further problems while riding.
> 
> ...


Tricky one to answer properly so I hope this makes sense. What asthma does is to make the airways constrict so that the air simply can't flow in or out of the lungs properly. For me this is often associated with wheeziness but not always in the case of a milder attack.

Chlorine at the swimming baths used to affect me in the way you describe - not a full blown asthma attack but a feeling like there is no air to breathe in, which clears after a few minutes.

Definitely worth bringing up with your consultant as it is quite possible to develop asthma later in life, particularly if there have been other problems.


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## ColinJ (30 Jul 2014)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> you don't need to be wheezy to have asthma/asthma type symptoms. I don't often get wheezy to the audible stage at least not without a stethoscope. My asthma is not usually the wheezy type. I get very short of breath though and it can take between 30 mins and a hour before my lungs have warmed up enough for me to cycle 'hard' ...


Hmm, that does sound like what I experience.

I always liked to get a decent warm-up in before riding but post-PE, I struggle a bit without one. Two of the three routes that I normally do from home involve me going straight up long hills. The third is to ride only two miles to the foot of the 5.5 mile Cragg Vale climb and then do that. Unless I warm up on my gym bike at home first, I am always climbing from cold.

Oh, talking of 'cold' - cold air irritates my lungs more than it used to, and a recent cold knocked the stuffing out of me and affected my breathing for over three weeks. Both of those seem to indicate sensitive lungs.



SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Edit: don't want to worry you, but have you read this http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/bronchiectasis/Pages/Introduction.aspx


I don't like the sound of that! I am not coughing though ... When I got my first PE, I had the cough from hell - I sprained my back muscles or cracked a rib from endless violent coughing (whatever it was - it hurt!). I am now very wary about coughs - anything more than the odd cough now and then and I would be back down to the local Health Centre.



Rickshaw Phil said:


> Tricky one to answer properly so I hope this makes sense. What asthma does is to make the airways constrict so that the air simply can't flow in or out of the lungs properly. For me this is often associated with wheeziness but not always in the case of a milder attack.
> 
> Chlorine at the swimming baths used to affect me in the way you describe - not a full blown asthma attack but a feeling like there is no air to breathe in, which clears after a few minutes.
> 
> Definitely worth bringing up with your consultant as it is quite possible to develop asthma later in life, particularly if there have been other problems.


Yes, I'll see what he has to say.

I only see the consultant once a year so I need to discuss whether it might make more sense to stick to seeing my GP unless there are complications. I'm not clear what the protocol is as things stand now. It is hard to get hold of the consultant at short notice, but the GP might refer me back to him.

Generally, I am pleased with my progress. These bouts of breathlessness are not severe enough to cause me major problems, but they unnerve me because they remind me of the trauma that I suffered with the PEs.


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## idlecyclist (1 Aug 2014)

I have mild asthma also. Its kept under control with inhalers , have not had a serious attack for about 10 years now. (with serious meaning I've ended up in Hospital)
Cycling certainly does help.

The best way for me to describe what an asthma attack feels like is to say, Its like trying to breath through a small straw.
Not necessery weezey, you just cant get enough air in.


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## byegad (1 Aug 2014)

I think the thing we need to remember, asthmatics and others is that it can and does kill and must be treated seriously.


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## ColinJ (1 Aug 2014)

idlecyclist said:


> The best way for me to describe what an asthma attack feels like is to say, Its like trying to breath through a small straw.
> 
> Not necessery weezey, you just cant get enough air in.


Hmm ... I can actually get air into my lungs, but it sometimes feels like the oxygen isn't getting into my blood, which is the problem I had with my PEs.

I will ask the consultant later in the week.


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## albion (1 Aug 2014)

I get exercise induced asthma. My granny gear is useful to stop the airways shrinking, especially on hillier sections when starting off.

I'd say there are two things Colin. That being oxygen blood transport efficiency and oxygen supply efficiency.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (1 Aug 2014)

byegad said:


> I think the thing we need to remember, asthmatics and others is that it can and does kill and must be treated seriously.


it kills approximately 3 people every day in the UK alone. 

It has killed me twice now, leaving me being resuscitated. the last time I have no memory of what happened for around 6 hours and to be honest, I don't expect to survive my next major asthma attack, nor do my doctors or my consultant expect me to survive it. that's not a pessimistic view, it is a realistic view.


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## Rickshaw Phil (1 Aug 2014)

byegad said:


> I think the thing we need to remember, asthmatics and others is that it can and does kill and must be treated seriously.


Indeed. Unfortunately it doesn't get treated as seriously as it should - there is still a view by some people who haven't had direct experience that "it's all in the mind". One such person (teacher at my school) changed _their _mind pretty quick when they witnessed me having an attack.



SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> it kills approximately 3 people every day in the UK alone.
> 
> It has killed me twice now, leaving me being resuscitated. the last time I have no memory of what happened for around 6 hours and to be honest, I don't expect to survive my next major asthma attack, nor do my doctors or my consultant expect me to survive it. that's not a pessimistic view, it is a realistic view.


That is a very sobering thought!


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## Timotheog (5 Aug 2014)

Really interesting to hear everyone's experiences. My asthma has got bad in the last fortnight since picking up a chest infection. I only got to go for 12 miles on my new bike :-( I do generally find that cycling has really helped my overall fitness (commuting 10 miles a day). And I really enjoy the feeling when I'm ex deciding on my bike as apposed To some other exercises.


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## Celticdog (5 Aug 2014)

Hi all, I suffer (used to really suffer) from asthma,
some days I'd be so short of breath I couldn't contemplate doing any kind of exercise. However I'm not so bad now.
Cycling is definitely a help, however I'm not pushing myself to the limit in sportives, I cycle to relax and if I'm honest
it's often quality time on my own away from the pressures of work and family.
The secret for me was to acknowledge that I have an illness, I have to 'manage' the illness otherwise the illness
will manage me. Nowadays I rarely use my inhaler, rather than trying to force as much air into your lungs as possible,
concentrate on maintaining your co2 levels, (it's not a waste product, it regulates your oxygen blood levels). When I've
had an asthma attack it's always been from over-breathing. I found the Buteyko method has helped me enormously.
Close Your Mouth- it's not a request it's a book!


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## jonnysnorocket (6 Aug 2014)

Celticdog said:


> Hi all, I suffer (used to really suffer) from asthma,
> some days I'd be so short of breath I couldn't contemplate doing any kind of exercise. However I'm not so bad now.
> Cycling is definitely a help, however I'm not pushing myself to the limit in sportives, I cycle to relax and if I'm honest
> it's often quality time on my own away from the pressures of work and family.
> ...


 me too.  The Buteyko method has been a revelation.!!


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## Jonlil (9 Aug 2014)

One thing that has really helped me was seeing an asthma nurse last year. She advised me to take antihistamines from March to October every year. And it has worked wonders.


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## Timotheog (10 Aug 2014)

My asthma has been exacerbated (spellcheck?) by a chest infection, which is taking a while to go, so desperate to go out riding, but don't want to make myself worse :-(


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## ColinJ (10 Aug 2014)

Timotheog said:


> My asthma has been exacerbated (spellcheck?) by a chest infection, which is taking a while to go, so desperate to go out riding, but don't want to make myself worse :-(


Good luck with that.

I'm still not properly recovered from the cold I caught 6 weeks ago, so something is up ...

I may be having lung function tests in the next couple of weeks if blood tests suggest that clotting is not to blame for my shortness of breath. (If clotting, then it will be a CT scan and an increased dosage of Warfarin; if not, then lung function tests and an ultrasound scan of my heart, plus any other tests that the consultant deems necessary.)


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## madpensioner (11 Aug 2014)

I have a mild form of asthma and use an inhailer morning and night - however i bought a rowing machine for my gym 6 months ago - this has improved my breathing over this period
- I use the rower 3 times a week for between 30 and 45 mins each time - it has most certainly improved my overall performance on the bike.


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## ushills (12 Aug 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Can I ask you asthmatics a question about asthma?
> 
> I have been wondering recently if the lung damage I suffered from DVT/PEs has left me with a mild case of asthma. My breathing has recovered very well from my illness, but I find myself very short of breath now until I have warmed up on a ride. After about 15 minutes of effort, I feel fine and have no further problems while riding.
> 
> ...



I've never had an asthma attack or suffer from wheezing and this is partly why I wasn't diagnosed until my 30's. Now take steroid inhaler everyday and always a blue inhaler 10mins or so before cycling.

What drew my docs attention to asthma was a persistent cough that a salbutamol inhaler stopped completely.

Prior to using inhalers when cycling the lack of oxygen intake became apparent and this effectively stopped me racing, I also used to faint immediately when stopping and all of these symptoms stopped with inhalers.

Preventing panic is a key point as it is very easy with my type of asthma to think myself into breathing problems, like forgetting to carry my asthma spray like today and cycling into work.


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## ColinJ (12 Aug 2014)

ushills said:


> I've never had an asthma attack or suffer from wheezing and this is partly why I wasn't diagnosed until my 30's. Now take steroid inhaler everyday and always a blue inhaler 10mins or so before cycling.
> 
> What drew my docs attention to asthma was a persistent cough that a salbutamol inhaler stopped completely.
> 
> ...


Interesting ...

I have fainted several times during medical procedures in the past (painful injections, tooth pulling etc.). When I was in hospital once, a nurse taking oxygen saturation readings noticed that I was subconsciously holding my breath due to anxiety about the readings. I was only getting readings in the low 90%s which had been causing concern. When she got me to ignore the meter and concentrate on breathing steadily, my reading went up to the high 90%s!


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## madpensioner (12 Aug 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Can I ask you asthmatics a question about asthma?
> 
> I have been wondering recently if the lung damage I suffered from DVT/PEs has left me with a mild case of asthma. My breathing has recovered very well from my illness, but I find myself very short of breath now until I have warmed up on a ride. After about 15 minutes of effort, I feel fine and have no further problems while riding.
> 
> ...


I had the same simptoms as you - shortness of breath untill i had done a few miles cycling - and i would some times get a shortness of breath when sat doing nothing - I saw the practice nurse at my surgery she diagnosed asthma within 15 mins - I now take a steroid inhaler when i get up in the morning and prior to going to bed at - i am also prescribed the blue inhaler but i never need it - but i must admit to sometimes using it prior to setting off on a ride even though i dont need it - you could call it cheating.


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## ColinJ (12 Aug 2014)

madpensioner said:


> I had the same simptoms as you - shortness of breath untill i had done a few miles cycling - and i would some times get a shortness of breath when sat doing nothing - I saw the practice nurse at my surgery she diagnosed asthma within 15 mins - I now take a steroid inhaler when i get up in the morning and prior to going to bed at - i am also prescribed the blue inhaler but i never need it - but i must admit to sometimes using it prior to setting off on a ride even though i dont need it - you could call it cheating.


Sounds like that might be it. I just had test results that tend to rule out fresh clotting. Lung functions and heart tests next ...


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## albion (13 Aug 2014)

"Lung functions and heart tests next ..."
But if they not vary what use is a 'spot test' ?

My norm has always being that it is hard work just to breath. However a supposed sleep specialist at the hospital told me I did not have Apnea and my 'regular doctor' (not the ad hoc one who wisely referred me for supposed tests) said nonchalantly ' well I can't breath through my nose either'. 

It was at the point where I had to sleep at 30 degrees to breath that I spotted the connection between my Apnea and a stronger different version of my Asthma. With lack trust on my Doc or that supposed specialist , I realised that you have to put a lot of thought input yourself. I can now breath through my nose, and any thoughts of whether I will actually survive a nights sleep have gone too. 

You sound like you have better people on your case, but added input from yourself might also help move towards solutions/work rounds.


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## albion (13 Aug 2014)

madpensioner said:


> ...i am also prescribed the blue inhaler but i never need it - but i must admit to sometimes using it prior to setting off on a ride even though i dont need it - you could call it cheating...



Maybe best not to overdo it on the blue Salubutamol one so use it wisely.
As a kid, 30 years ago, I was using double the maximum dose in that 2 hours later I needed 2 puffs again. 

Likely wrongly, I seldom used the brown Becotide one.


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## ColinJ (13 Aug 2014)

albion said:


> "Lung functions and heart tests next ..."
> But if they not vary what use is a 'spot test' ?


They want to work out if a lung problem is putting strain on my heart, or a heart problem is affecting my breathing, or maybe a bit of both? I think that mild asthma would probably be the 'least bad' problem so I am hoping it is that!

My breathing does vary, and so does my pulse. Both sometimes go wrong for no apparent reason.

I can make the breathing problem appear by exerting myself without a warm-up. I can make the heart problem appear by pushing myself too hard, especially when not warmed up.


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## albion (13 Aug 2014)

I suppose I could too, at least for the exerting without warm up thing.
Thinking back, the problem was that my tests were completed before inflammation happened.

If I had a heart problem it was also seemed far too random. Being near death cold after climbing the Tyne Tunnel stairs thus having to abandon a ride likely hinted at one. It was always a morning thing, like the hangovers I would get when sober !


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## jefmcg (18 Aug 2014)

I'm been following this thread, because I am also a mild asthmatic - much milder than any one in this thread - and today i heard about this paper, and thought might be of interested to other sufferers.

http://www.jpsychores.com/article/S0022-3999(14)00252-9/abstract

Basically, asthmatics who are exposed to an odour they are told is asthmogenic (there's a new word for you) have a physical, inflammatory response to it; if they are told it's therapeutic, they don't.

I wonder if there is a corollary to suppress a reaction to genuine trigger?


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## albion (18 Aug 2014)

"Irritation and annoyance ratings were elevated in the asthmogenic group."

What it does not say is "Irritation and annoyance ratings were not elevated in the therapeutic group."
Just badly worded then?

Yet obviously one perceives increased risk when warned of risk. That is how scary music works in the movies.


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## madpensioner (19 Aug 2014)

jefmcg said:


> I'm been following this thread, because I am also a mild asthmatic - much milder than any one in this thread - and today i heard about this paper, and thought might be of interested to other sufferers.
> 
> http://www.jpsychores.com/article/S0022-3999(14)00252-9/abstract
> 
> ...


As i stated previously i too have got a very mild form of asthma - and that it was the practice nurse who found it - having found it she refered me to a specialist - and to cut a long story very short he stated that nobody really knows what causes asthma - I stated that i had packed up smoking 6 yrs ago having smoked for 50 yrs - his comment was " dont let anyone tell you that smoking causes asthma - it may agrivate - but it will not cause it " - so that was from the horses mouth - where do we go from here . I know this sounds stupid but i ran marathons for a number of years - followig that i walked 50 miles on my birth day every year up to 69 years of age on 20 fags a day - i packed up smoking at 69 and started cycling 4/5 thousand miles per annum - and developed asthma - as the specialist said - know one knows what causes asthma . May be what you have stated is the answer - who knows the answer ?


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## byegad (19 Aug 2014)

Second hand tobacco smoke brings on my Asthma. Since the ban on smoking in public access buildings my inhaler use has dropped to 25% of what it used to be. The old 'Poison' scent makes me tighten up very badly in seconds of exposure and Diesel fumes set me off too.


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## madpensioner (19 Aug 2014)

byegad said:


> Second hand tobacco smoke brings on my Asthma. Since the ban on smoking in public access buildings my inhaler use has dropped to 25% of what it used to be. The old 'Poison' scent makes me tighten up very badly in seconds of exposure and Diesel fumes set me off too.


I think your Asthma is worse than mine - however Diesel fumes can do the same to me .


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (19 Aug 2014)

back to the dr's this afternoon re: my asthma... having problems with one of my meds... fingers crossed I get someone helpful... it can be hit and miss and I can come over as knowing more about my condition than them (which is accurate on the whole given I managed & medicated myself whilst on the big tour...). Hate having to go to the dr's though because the waiting room is always full of ill people and I usually catch something I don't want and I go on holiday in less than 2 weeks time....


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## albion (20 Aug 2014)

madpensioner said:


> .. however Diesel fumes can do the same to me .


See there are causes, it just happens the doctors do not know each personal case/cause.

The other thing to bear in mind is that 'asthma' is much a label. I've, rather unwittingly had allergic rhinitis my whole life, with that blending in with my asthma. It was never diagnosed because it got slotted in as being asthma and simply ignored/put up with.

BTW, is not your asthma caused by that extra exertion needed for cycling up hills or by the wind on your breathing channels?
I get a bit of both, with the hill thing near 100% alleviated by granny gearing.


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## byegad (20 Aug 2014)

No issues with breathing hard setting me off, but if I'm not clear already a hill will point up a problem I was unaware of. 

That said these days I suffer far fewer attacks and am classified as 'Well controlled' by the Asthma nurse at my GP's. The demise of smoking has been the major reason why my breathing has improved. Anyone claiming that second hand tobacco smoke does not bring on an asthma attack is plain wrong, at least in my case.


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## madpensioner (20 Aug 2014)

albion said:


> See there are causes, it just happens the doctors do not know each personal case/cause.
> 
> The other thing to bear in mind is that 'asthma' is much a label. I've, rather unwittingly had allergic rhinitis my whole life, with that blending in with my asthma. It was never diagnosed because it got slotted in as being asthma and simply ignored/put up with.
> 
> ...


I didnt say that Diesel fumes caused my Asthma - they just agrevate it .


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## HeroesFitness (20 Aug 2014)

Asthma is very serious but doing aerobic exercise (cycling, jogging, rowing etc) at gentle to medium bouts generally will help with it, if I recall David Beckham was or is asthmatic, so don't let it hold you back just be sensible and seek medical assistance and maybe get a GP referal for a personal trainer for a few sessions


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (20 Aug 2014)

Success at last.... after more than 2 years of not sleeping at night following constant asthma attacks, I have finally had a couple of good nights sleep free from my issues....
I had been convinced it was one of my asthma meds that was causing the problem, but even my severe asthma consultant had said that that particular med did not cause those issues... I even have a sleep referral for a CPAP trial it has been that bad.

Well 2 weeks ago when my OH was away from home and I was so desperately tired from no sleep, I totally (and genuinely) forgot to take this med 2 nights in a row and slept better than I had for a long time. When my OH got home, and feeling slightly better and my normal routine restored, I realised my mistake and took the medication. Problems returned instantly. So I pulled out an old inhaler which is very close to its expiry (one that is an either or with this medication) and used that for a week. Then I started on the research.... the NHS website can be so very useful at times and almost immediately I found the problem. The medication I was being prescribed had 2 ingredients - the medication and a dairy product... So I did some more digging, found that the same med was available in another form which did not contain dairy and decided to talk with my GP... I started by apologising for going off and doing my own investigation, but I have tried repeatedly now to get someone to listen to me about these issues... my sleeping problems were being put down to the tracheomalacia and bronchiectasis I have been diagnosed with (hence the CPAP trail) and I wasn't convinced, not least of all because whilst I was off (trying to) cycle around the world, I didn't have these problems....

So having discussed it with my GP (who listened to me) and showed him the printed NHS pages I had taken with me, he gave me the choice between trying the alternative version of the med that had been causing the problems or going back to my old inhaler (which would need to be taken 4 doses 4 times a day compared to the new one which is 2 doses once a day). I chose the alternative because carrying 3 inhalers around all day is a real pain and also because of oral thrush issues, 2 doses verses 16 doses... Well last night was the first night on the new inhaler (but same drug) and no issues... 

So after more than 2 years, and numerous medical experts looking at the 'problem',_ not a single one of them picked up on the fact that the medication I was prescribed was spraying a dairy product into the lungs of a severe asthmatic who is allergic to dairy products!_

Now all I have to do is learn to sleep again!


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## ColinJ (20 Aug 2014)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Success at last.... after more than 2 years of not sleeping at night following constant asthma attacks, I have finally had a couple of good nights sleep free from my issues....
> I had been convinced it was one of my asthma meds that was causing the problem, but even my severe asthma consultant had said that that particular med did not cause those issues... I even have a sleep referral for a CPAP trial it has been that bad.
> 
> Well 2 weeks ago when my OH was away from home and I was so desperately tired from no sleep, I totally (and genuinely) forgot to take this med 2 nights in a row and slept better than I had for a long time. When my OH got home, and feeling slightly better and my normal routine restored, I realised my mistake and took the medication. Problems returned instantly. So I pulled out an old inhaler which is very close to its expiry (one that is an either or with this medication) and used that for a week. Then I started on the research.... the NHS website can be so very useful at times and almost immediately I found the problem. The medication I was being prescribed had 2 ingredients - the medication and a dairy product... So I did some more digging, found that the same med was available in another form which did not contain dairy and decided to talk with my GP... I started by apologising for going off and doing my own investigation, but I have tried repeatedly now to get someone to listen to me about these issues... my sleeping problems were being put down to the tracheomalacia and bronchiectasis I have been diagnosed with (hence the CPAP trail) and I wasn't convinced, not least of all because whilst I was off (trying to) cycle around the world, I didn't have these problems....
> ...


Well done, and enjoy your sleep!

I told my consultant about a couple of research results I had found that he had never heard of.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (20 Aug 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Well done, and enjoy your sleep!
> 
> I told my consultant about a couple of research results I had found that he had never heard of.


I'll just be glad to be able to ditch the CPAP trail in November... that really was the last straw. Still have to get another apt with my severe asthma consultant and obviously on a month trial of the new version of the drug, but life generally seems much better not being in permanent anaphylactic shock! But my body has decided that is needs more sleep which is probably where I will head off to this afternoon instead of a bike ride. Time to listen to my body (given it has just gone as black as night outside and is about to rain heavily!)


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## John the Canuck (20 Aug 2014)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Success at last.... ...snip........_.. the medication I was prescribed was spraying a dairy product into the lungs of a severe asthmatic who is allergic to dairy products!.............._Now all I have to do is learn to sleep again!



*very interesting.!*

i use morning and night 
*Seretide 500* - Salmeterol/fluticasone propionate 
- Salmeterol helps relax the air passages
- Fluticasone is a Steroid to reduce inflammation
*
Atrovent* - Ipratropium bromide Inhalers 
- which also relaxes the air passages

+ 1 *Montelukast *sodium tablet at night
- used to prevent wheezing, difficulty breathing, chest tightness, and coughing during exercise
- allergic rhinitis ( sneezing and stuffy, runny or itchy nose]
note: contains lactose

NOW - some weeks ago i ran out of Meds and my online renewal application was 'On Hold' by my local GP annual checkup needed i believe
anyway one thing and another i didn't make an appointment........
suddenly realized 2 weeks have passed - only meds being taken was Atrovent Inhaler 2xday

and I felt OK - even on my 12mile circuit every other day

but have had attacks of the 'sneezes''......

thanks to your notes above - I'll see if my meds can be decreased or changed due to the lactose.......
BTW i switched to goats milk years ago 

john

take care ....sleep well.!......


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (20 Aug 2014)

John the Canuck said:


> *very interesting.!*
> 
> i use morning and night
> *Seretide 500* - Salmeterol/fluticasone propionate
> ...



I started off with the 'switch to goat's milk' about 20 years ago and went over to goats' butter, yoghurt and cheese as well before finally having to rule out all dairy about 8 years ago. I was until quite recently able to tolerate small quantities of cooked dairy (such as cheese & butter but not milk) but about 3 years ago, even that became impossible. I find now that I will start a coughing attack after the 1st mouthful of something if there is dairy in it (usually when someone has sworn blind there is no dairy in it and there is, "oh but I didn't think butter counted"  that sort of thing,).

Seretide was something I was on for years until I started getting heart problems that were occurring more and more regularly - its a known side effect of the inhaler and eventually the heart flutters were happening 8 or 9 times a day and my GP decided enough was enough...

Montelukast is an interesting one.... some of the generic versions are really bad for their higher dairy content and one has actually left me in A&E in anaphylactic shock! But I can tolerate the brand name 'Singulair' if and only if it is the UK version of it - I don't know why but I am able to - I guess they have processed the dairy enough for me not to be allergic to it. but I do find that tablet useful and can only miss 1 or 2 doses before problems return.... so it is on my repeat as Singulair and once a year we play the game of it being put back to Montelukast without me being told and then me having to make an appointment to get it put back...

Atrovent - is the alterative for the new version of tiotropium that I have been put onto and is my 'backup' and all I respond to if I need 999 for an attack.... but I need to take a lot of atrovent (4x4 doses a day) daily to get the same relief as I (used to get/got/hopefully will continue to get) from tiotropium... I am now on Spiriva respimat rather than the Spiriva handihaler... so 2 doses verses 16 doses.

Regretfully a considerable number of medications contain dairy - it is used as a tablet filler (and unnecessarily so - it is simply a cost exercise). It is not uncommon to find dairy in even capsules which shouldn't need a filler/bulker at all!

Luckily my phyllocontin does not contain any dairy... but my steroids (hydrocortisone) does and there are no alternatives for that (apart from IM/IV) so I have the strongest tablet I can and cut it up! Luckily the Spiriva respimat is actually a liquid and I am pretty sure that the 'inhaler' is actually a mini nebuliser because it looks like my ultrasonic portable nebuliser with a metal plate in it and even the fine mist is similar!

Are you aware that a lot of bread and margarine contains cow's dairy products as well?
Pure is about the only brand of marg that is dairy free although I think there is now another one but it is twice the price that Pure is. (I have come across one olive marg (Italian make but not a common one) that is dairy free, but it is pricey!
Bread is hit and miss. Soft fluffy wholemeal is just about the worst for the dairy content.... but certain brands are better than others. Robert's bakery is pretty good at avoiding dairy - that one is local to me which is great. The Village Bakery is sometimes good and sometimes not, but well labelled. The only one in M&S I can have is their seeded baps (both the white and wholemeal baps contain dairy). Hovis Wholemeal is patented, and does not contain dairy, so is usually a good one to aim for! Otherwise it is a label reading contest and a case of learning all the variations that milk or dairy can be called!

Edit: It was serevent I was on, not seretide, but the side effects for salmeterol are still the same


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## John the Canuck (20 Aug 2014)

thanks for the info
_''Singulair and once a year we play the game of it being put back to Montelukast without me being told and then me having to make an appointment to get it put back...''_

you're correct - i used to get Singular but now the Pharmacy dishes out Montelukast - didn't realize - will see the Dr soon

didn't know that about bread
Sainsburys have a 'free from'' section - I'll check it out
meantime _''Hovis Wholemeal is patented, and does not contain dairy''_


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## Mapplebeck (21 Aug 2014)

Timotheog said:


> Hi all, just wondering if any of you have asthma and enjoy cycling? Does it make your asthma worse? Have you found cycling helps overall?
> 
> I'm just getting into road cycling and have been asthmatic since a boy, generally I find myself able to cope more on the bike as apposed to running, etc.


Hi Timotheog, from my experience, cycling has only done my asthma lots of good - my lungs are much stronger when I've been doing lots of cycling. I always take my inhaler with me, just in case, but rarely use it - unless I stop cycling regularly, in which case I do need my inhaler more often on a ride. I find anti histamines also improve my symptoms in the summer. I also do a lot of swimming, and can recommend it for any asthmatic - I think swimming helps strengthen lungs better than anything else. But cycling definitely helps too, and it won't make your asthma any worse. Just remember to take your inhaler with you, and don't worry about stopping to take it and giving yourself a few minutes to recover if you need them.


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## ColinJ (21 Aug 2014)

I am booked in for my lung test next week. It sounds like a pretty basic test, not even any exertion involved. All they will be checking is how much and how quickly I breathe in and out at rest, how much oxygen I take in, and my lung capacity.

I will be interested to see what that lung capacity is because I have believed I have big lungs since blowing the water out of a manometer in a physics experiment at school in my teens! (Science teacher: "Oh, you are the only boy to ever blow that hard!")


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## John the Canuck (21 Aug 2014)

(Science teacher: "Oh, you are the only boy to ever blow that hard!")

buttons lip
buttons lip
buttons lip..........................


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## ColinJ (21 Aug 2014)

John the Canuck said:


> (Science teacher: "Oh, you are the only boy to ever blow that hard!")
> 
> buttons lip
> buttons lip
> buttons lip..........................


It dawned on me about 30 seconds after I posted it!


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## madpensioner (22 Aug 2014)

John the Canuck said:


> (Science teacher: "Oh, you are the only boy to ever blow that hard!")
> 
> buttons lip
> buttons lip
> buttons lip..........................





ColinJ said:


> It dawned on me about 30 seconds after I posted it!


me too about 30 seconds after I read it !


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (22 Aug 2014)

ColinJ said:


> I am booked in for my lung test next week. It sounds like a pretty basic test, not even any exertion involved. All they will be checking is how much and how quickly I breathe in and out at rest, how much oxygen I take in, and my lung capacity.
> 
> I will be interested to see what that lung capacity is because I have believed I have big lungs since blowing the water out of a manometer in a physics experiment at school in my teens! (Science teacher: "Oh, you are the only boy to ever blow that hard!")


Nothing to the lung function tests.... and I too have a good lung volume and the lungs function well when they are 'asthma free'... think that is better phrased that yours!


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## ColinJ (22 Aug 2014)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Nothing to the lung function tests.... and I too have a good lung volume and the lungs function well when they are 'asthma free'...  think that is better phrased that yours!


I was slightly disappointed when I read the appointment letter and saw that there was not going to be a treadmill test. If they happen to do these basic tests when I am not feeling short of breath, then everything might appear normal. If I had to exercise for (say) 30 minutes then it would be pretty obvious that I was struggling a bit for the first 10 minutes until I got warmed up.

Still, they have to start somewhere. They must see lots of people like me and I'm sure they know what they are doing. 

I am glad that they are taking me seriously - they could have turned round and said that I must be ok, being capable of doing the hilly rides that I do.


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## hobbitonabike (23 Aug 2014)

I was diagnosed with asthma after I started cycling but after looking back over problems I have had they all come back to this, just not obviously enough to be diagnosed sooner I guess. Am on an inhaler morning and night and a blue one before/during exercise if needed. I also have a nasal spray and take antihistimines. Pollen absolutely cripples me and flower lined hedges (especially on hills) triggers breathing problems almost immediately. I can't breathe through my nose when exercising as, and this may sound odd, I have really narrow nostrils lol. If I try and inhale deeply through my nose my nostrils clamp shut and nothing gets in. So then breathing through my mouth causes my lungs to dry up more quickly and irritates the asthma! Vicious circle. Am starting to get to grips with it a bit having only been diagnosed a few months ago.


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## albion (30 Aug 2014)

Yes, the lung function blowing test is quite useless for me too. Inflammation mainly comes after multi repeated tests (or cycling early in the morning up to steep a hill without a granny gear available).

So I wonder why do they do it when you are not having an asthma attack.


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## ColinJ (30 Aug 2014)

albion said:


> Yes, the lung function blowing test is quite useless for me too. Inflammation mainly comes after multi repeated tests (or cycling early in the morning up to steep a hill without a granny gear available).
> 
> So I wonder why do they do it when you are not having an asthma attack.


I had my lung tests done earlier in the week, when I was actually feeling ok. I told the spirometrist (is that what they are called?) that and she said that they were just trying to establish some 'base values' for now. 

I wouldn't fancy having to do those tests when I am feeling rough. I got quite light-headed and developed a slight headache with the repeated full exhalations.

I found the tests quite interesting, but struggled a couple of times not to have a giggling fit halfway through. There is something about being told to breathe normally that makes one want to not do it! 

I was told that my lung capacity seems pretty big (as suspected). I think I blew out 6.4 litres on one set of tests.

I suspect that my problem is not asthma, but I suppose they have to start somewhere to work out what is going on.

I am having an ultrasound scan of my heart done in a few weeks time.


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## Matthames (2 Sep 2014)

I have asthma that is exercise induced. I had to do some comprehensive tests to firmly prove that it was exercise induced because the reliever inhaler is on the anti-doping naughty list. The reason I had to have the tests done was I was entering a world championship status event and to avoid any awkward questions I applied for a therapeutic use exemption.


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## ColinJ (9 Sep 2014)

I am feeling much better now so I don't think asthma was what was troubling me. (I suspect that I probably developed a few more clots when I had my cold but have now managed to clear most of them.) 

I will still be having an ultrasound scan of my heart soon to see if I have any obvious problems related to my problems over the past couple of years.


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## the_craig (24 May 2015)

Bump. 

A very interesting thread. I myself was diagnosed with asthma about a year ago after going through a spell of waking up most nights short of breath and really wheezy. I remember one particular night when I was ready to phone 999. Sadly, my GP was worse than hopeless and had to take matters into my own hands. I work in a local hospital and spoke to one of my respiratory nurse collegues who arranged spirometry and diagnosed me that day with asthma and started me on inhalers and antihistamines. 

No more waking up short of puff. So I'm on 2 puffs of my becolmethazone morning and night and only use a couple puffs my ventolin before a ride or before going to the in laws, where one of their dogs set me off in minutes. 

And I find @SatNavSaysStraightOn's story fascinating.


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## AndyWilliams (25 May 2015)

I've had mild asthma since 13. I find the first 30 mins are a bit wheezy, I take a couple of puffs on my Sabutamol blue pump and I'm good then for all day. 69 miles is my best with no issues.
Only time I am bad is with a cold/chest infection.
Riding has helped my lungs improve actually. I used to blow 300 on the breathing test, now I blow off the scale  

Keep at it


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## albion (26 May 2015)

http://www.wunderground.com/history...zip=00000&reqdb.magic=67&reqdb.wmo=03246&MR=1

I'm posting this, in that I have a major connection (instant breathing change proof) between humidity and breathing. I installed a high capacity dehumidifier September and the health changes have been quite dramatic since, not instant like with a lower power one installed September 2014, but quite dramatic none the less.

Last night was interesting in the 100% outdoor humidity co-coincided with some disturbed sleep, a first in a while.

It might be worth following for your local area too (change the word Gateshead?)


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (27 May 2015)

albion said:


> http://www.wunderground.com/history...zip=00000&reqdb.magic=67&reqdb.wmo=03246&MR=1
> 
> I'm posting this, in that I have a major connection (instant breathing change proof) between humidity and breathing. I installed a high capacity dehumidifier September and the health changes have been quite dramatic since, not instant like with a lower power one installed September 2014, but quite dramatic none the less.
> 
> ...


I have very often found problems with sleep during the end of a long dry spell. The first night of rain will be hell with my asthma, then once all the pollution had been washed out of the air, I'll be much better again and start sleeping better. You can often see the build up of pollution in the air as a dry spell is happening.


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## geopat (27 May 2015)

I have pretty mild asthma which on the whole does not bother me too much apart from wheezy breathing and the odd chest tightening. However I do get chest infections around 2 times per year and these take me off the bike for usually 2 weeks or so.

The chest infection I have currently is on its fourth week. Feel ok now but still a persistent cough and lack of energy. Apparently common in my area this year but an absolute nightmare with underlying asthma.

Anyone else had this recently?


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## albion (27 May 2015)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> I have very often found problems with sleep during the end of a long dry spell...


Strangely I am maybe the opposite to you, as I observed late evening rain followed by early hours clear fresh air did wonders for my breathing.

Part of the reason was likely that the rain was vertical, being wind free, so indoor humidity never really got a boost upwards. The positive afterfeel was possibly that dusts/pollens etc got washed away.


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## albion (27 May 2015)

geopat said:


> ....
> The chest infection I have currently is on its fourth week. Feel ok now but still a persistent cough and lack of energy. Apparently common in my area this year but an absolute nightmare with underlying..


 Mine were regular when young but have only really had 1 in last 10 years, and that I found unusual.

My energy was always low though, boosted by the good feel factor, and away from any polluting environment, via long long cycle ride.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (28 May 2015)

albion said:


> Strangely I am maybe the opposite to you, as I observed late evening rain followed by early hours clear fresh air did wonders for my breathing.
> 
> Part of the reason was likely that the rain was vertical, being wind free, so indoor humidity never really got a boost upwards. The positive afterfeel was possibly that dusts/pollens etc got washed away.


I think that is the same. We are just describing the passes differently. Rain after a long dry spell, then the following day and things are much better.

We both feel a lot better when the pollution in the air has been washed away. I know that pollution in the site is a major issue for me, as is pollen, but pollution more so.

I can't enter cities or large towns of my asthma is bad, or if the pollution levels are high. If you can see the pollution, I'm in trouble. I live rurally because I have less issues with pollen than pollution. I also avoid going into town as much as possible.


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## Strathlubnaig (3 Mar 2016)

Got a proper diagnosis of adult onset asthma fairly recently, I think it was triggered or at least made worse by working in severe cold conditions (25 to 30 below). I got the blue inhaler and used that when I was toiling but a few months ago I monitored the peak flow for a couple of weeks and the GP gave me the brown preventer inhaler, twice a day, and I rarely need the blue one now, reasonably happy with the situation (as much as I can be anyway). Still getting in the miles, running, racing, TTs etc.


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## e-rider (4 Mar 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Got a proper diagnosis of adult onset asthma fairly recently, I think it was triggered or at least made worse by working in severe cold conditions (25 to 30 below). I got the blue inhaler and used that when I was toiling but a few months ago I monitored the peak flow for a couple of weeks and the GP gave me the brown preventer inhaler, twice a day, and I rarely need the blue one now, reasonably happy with the situation (as much as I can be anyway). Still getting in the miles, running, racing, TTs etc.


similar story for me, although I have duoresp spiromax not a brown inhaler, although it might be the same thing? I will not be winning the TdF any time soon but I still enjoy cycling and ride up to 200 miles in a day!


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