# Qatar..... what will they do with all those new stadiums ?



## Dave7 (23 Nov 2022)

7 new stadiums plus the infrastructure. Can't imagine the overall cost.
They have enough money to put it down to PR but what will happen to them


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## tom73 (23 Nov 2022)

Extra Prisons they look as if they need them seeing it looks like practically everything is illegal.
Or maybe diversity and equally training centres.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Nov 2022)

Turn them into memorials....


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## T4tomo (23 Nov 2022)

A combo of downscale for clubs, turn into retail & leisure, and one is pile of shipping containers anyway. Most of their club games have been played in "neutral" grounds for a while, whilst old grounds were altered or abandoned for the new stadiums.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/wee...e-new-life-into-its-stadiums-after-world-cup/


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## AndyRM (23 Nov 2022)

This is all a bit political isn't it?

Hosting it there was daft. 2026 is going to be even dafter. The infrastructure is there, but the geographical requirements are just bonkers.


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## Grant Fondo (23 Nov 2022)

AndyRM said:


> 2026 is going to be even dafter.



Yes the distances will be crazy, and 48 teams.
You might even be able to buy a Bud or Corona in the stadiums?


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## T4tomo (23 Nov 2022)

in 2026 I would assume that each group (of 3) will be based around one stadium, or if they go with groups of 4, 2 close-ish stadiums) to minimise travel time / logistic complications.

the expansion to 48 teams is madness. at least they are using (mainly) countries who have hosted before and have existing stadiums*

given that Chelsea fly to Leeds for club games, now sure that an extra 1000 miles or so for flights in the knockout stages matters that much.

*interestingly, the Azteca is the only stadium that will be used that previously hosted a world cup game.


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## Grant Fondo (23 Nov 2022)

USA and Mexico getting it again, Mexico for 3rd time? England has a chance of 2030 ... 64 years on ... come on FIFA!


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## Smokin Joe (23 Nov 2022)

The World Cup should only be awarded to countries who already have the stadiums in place. None of the major footballing nations need spend a penny to host a tournament (Although of course they would, egos trumping common sense).

The environmental impact alone of building those stadia in Qatar will be massive, all for nothing afterwards in a country with a population of only just over two million. And of course the slave labour used to build them.


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## cougie uk (23 Nov 2022)

The WC is as dodgy as anything. Such a waste of resources.


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## Grant Fondo (23 Nov 2022)

Smokin Joe said:


> The environmental impact alone of building those stadia in Qatar will be massive



And what about the cost?

_the cost for *each day of use* for a single stadium in what is only a four-week competition is a staggering $357 million._


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## tom73 (23 Nov 2022)

cougie uk said:


> The WC is as dodgy as anything. Such a waste of resources.



As long as money talks and fans keep on paying nothing will change football stopped being a sport years ago. No wonder a former club chair said fans are mugs and will pay anything.


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## Time Waster (23 Nov 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> USA and Mexico getting it again, Mexico for 3rd time? England has a chance of 2030 ... 64 years on ... come on FIFA!



Do we have the money to buy it?


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## kynikos (23 Nov 2022)

Prison camps?


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

Dave7 said:


> 7 new stadiums plus the infrastructure. Can't imagine the overall cost.
> They have enough money to put it down to PR but what will happen to them



Dismantled and reassembled in other countries in the region I believe.

ETA
Only 'Stadium 974' it seems (so called because that's the number of shipping containers used.


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## Grant Fondo (23 Nov 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Do we have the money to buy it?



We could bung Infantino one of those vacant Russian billionaire pads in London?


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## twentysix by twentyfive (23 Nov 2022)

I got this :-



StadiumCost (USD)*Al Bayt Stadium$847mLusail Stadium$767mAhmed Bin Ali Stadium$360mAl Janoub Stadium$572mEducation City Stadium$700mStadium 974UnknownKhalifa International Stadium$78-315mAl Thumama Stadium$342m
 

from https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soc...-size-capacity-pitch/oyhamtoorwhiltdmfdq5ej2u

Whether it's accurate I can't comment. But it's a staggering amount it would seem.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

They are being taken down and given to other countries around the world i believe…..


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> I got this :-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chelseas new satdium was priced at 1 billion pound and i dont think spurs ground cost that much less…..so all relative i suppose


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## tom73 (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Chelseas new satdium was priced at 1 billion pound and i dont think spurs ground cost that much less…..so all relative i suppose



Except the other two did not come off the back of cheep labour or cost human life.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

tom73 said:


> Except the other two did not come off the back of cheep labour or cost workers lives.



Prove it….do you know exactly how many lives were lost and how much labourers were paid to build spurs stadium…..as for the chelsea one, its not even been built.

as for the stadiums in qatar costing lives, theres not a single shred of evidence showing what infrastructure the lives of immigrants died working on. It could have been hotels, shopping centres, road infrastructure, towns, villages, multiple sky scrapers etc etc……all we know is that 6500 have died since 2010.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Prove it….do you know exactly how many lives were lost and how much labourers were paid to build spurs stadium…..as for the chelsea one, its not even been built.
> 
> as for the stadiums in qatar costing lives, theres not a single shred of evidence showing what infrastructure the lives of immigrants died working on. It could have been hotels, shopping centres, road infrastructure, towns, villages, multiple sky scrapers etc etc……all we know is that 6500 have died since 2010.



A couple of gifts for you

Qatar:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...grant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

Spurs:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-stadium-mp-investigation-working-conditions/


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> A couple of gifts for you
> 
> Qatar:
> https://www.theguardian.com/global-...grant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022
> ...



Qatar report - it states since world cup awarded, but not on what infrastructure they were working on….how many died building the road network for the Tour of Qatar????

Spurs Stadium - that backs up my claim….as the stadium was started in 2015, pre-brexit. How many low paid immigrant workers were employed during its construction????

and i wonder how much of the 2012 london olympics infrastructure was built on the backs of low paid, immigrant workers???


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Qatar report - it states since world cup awarded, but not on what infrastructure they were working on….how many died building the road network for the Tour of Qatar????
> 
> Spurs Stadium - that backs up my claim



Also says, for the avoidance of doubt, that in Qatar, despite the non-categorisation of exactly what they were working on when they died, it is inconceivable that a very large number were not working on stadia, infrastructure etc that were directly connected to the World Cup - because the vast majority of workers were there because of the World Cup.

For Spurs, actually it backs up none of your claims - but superficially it looks like it might, so that's what you claim.

In fact it mentions the HIGH wages being paid in order to keep on schedule. Also mentions that there were concerns about the organisation of the site & associated concerns - raised up to and including in Parliament, and in the construction press, and many other places at the time. I can find no record of deaths in the build - and I have looked, unlike you.

No, it shouldn't have been structured like that in the first place, but it's abundantly clear that the whistle was blown, and things were fixed in 2018.

If only the poor sods working in Qatar had had such exposure of their working conditions.


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## Jameshow (23 Nov 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Yes the distances will be crazy, and 48 teams.
> You might even be able to buy a Bud or Corona in the stadiums?



Didn't think of climate change!🤣🤣🤣


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Also says, for the avoidance of doubt, that in Qatar, despite the non-categorisation of exactly what they were working on when they died, it is inconceivable that a very large number were not working on stadia, infrastructure etc that were directly connected to the World Cup - because the vast majority of workers were there because of the World Cup.
> 
> For Spurs, actually it backs up none of your claims - but superficially it looks like it might, so that's what you claim.
> 
> ...



Think you need to read this, from that exact same report…..only had a quick scan, but coukdnt find anything relating to the word inconceivable. But it does state world cup projects and not Stadiums per sey….in fact on 37 deaths are linked directly to world cup stadia builds


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Think you need to read this, from that exact same report
> 
> View attachment 668974



What, exactly please? As far as I can see that's exactly what I said, so I'm puzzled as to what you want me to re-read, and to what effect.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> What, exactly please? As far as I can see that's exactly what I said, so I'm puzzled as to what you want me to re-read, and to what effect.



Its not remotely anything like you said…….


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Its not remotely anything like you said…….



I think I'd probably ask the audience on that as I simply cannot understand how you could say that, I'm afraid.

I said this:

Also says, for the avoidance of doubt, that in Qatar, despite the non-categorisation of exactly what they were working on when they died, it is inconceivable that a very large number were not working on stadia, infrastructure etc that were directly connected to the World Cup - because the vast majority of workers were there because of the World Cup.

Readers can cast their eyes up the page and read the Guardian excerpt.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> I think I'd probably ask the audience on that as I simply cannot understand how you could say that, I'm afraid.
> 
> I said this:
> 
> ...



Show me in that report where the above paragraph is written?? Especially the words “for the avoidance of doubt” and “it is inconcievable”


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Show me in that report where the above paragraph is written?? Especially the words “for the avoidance of doubt” and “it is inconcievable”



It was a _summary_, not a quote FGS. It is a fair summary, I made sure of that.

You were saying, in terms, that there wasn't a shred of evidence... In fact, let me quote what you said:

*as for the stadiums in qatar costing lives, theres not a single shred of evidence showing what infrastructure the lives of immigrants died working on. It could have been hotels, shopping centres, road infrastructure, towns, villages, multiple sky scrapers etc etc……all we know is that 6500 have died since 2010.*


I contend there's an abundance of evidence, and your contention above is absolute nonsense, and you have been called out on it.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> It was a _summary_, not a quote FGS. It is a fair summary, I made sure of that.
> 
> You were saying, in terms, that there wasn't a shred of evidence... In fact, let me quote what you said:
> 
> ...



One report is not an abundance of evidence, especially when the report stated, they are not catgorised by type of work or job site………its one report. Which related to my quote “not a shred of evidence” because there is none.

as for talking nonsense, pot, kettle, black


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> One report is not an abundance of evidence, especially when the report stated, they are not catgorised by type of work or job site………its one report. Which related to my quote “not a shred of evidence” because there is none.
> 
> as for talking nonsense, pot, kettle, black



Six and a half thousand bodies of migrant workers were shipped back to families. That is not in doubt*. That's the tragedy of this.

Your assertions are quite remarkable. Sometimes it's better just to withdraw with grace, not double down, especially given the subject matter.

ETA
*You may not have noted that this is data compiled directly from governmental records in the Expats' home countries.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Six and a half thousand bodies of migrant workers were shipped back to families. That is not in doubt. That's the tragedy of this.
> 
> Your assertions are quite remarkable. Sometimes it's better just to withdraw with grace, not double down, especially given the subject matter.



And i, in my first post agreed on the number of deaths……what i dont agree with you on, is where they died and the report you quoted, agreed with me and stated it within the report. Your summary contained words to suite your own rhetoric and not the evidence provided.

Ever thought of taking up journalism.

Using words “for the avoidance of doubt” when there is actual doubt on where and how they died is absurd…..


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## SpokeyDokey (23 Nov 2022)

Mod note:

Please stick to the exact subject referred to in the thread title and the opening post and keep your posts politics free.

If you can't/don't we will close the thread.

Many thanks.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> And i, in my first post agreed on the number of deaths……what i dont agree with you on, is where they died and the report you quoted, agreed with me and stated it within the report. Your summary contained words to suite your own rhetoric and not the evidence provided.
> 
> Ever thought of taking up journalism.
> 
> Using words “for the avoidance of doubt” when there is actual doubt on where and how they died is absurd…..



Not a shred of evidence, not a shred. That's what you said.

I said, in terms, and correctly paraphrasing the report, that whilst the individual area of death was not categorised, it is an _inevitability _that a very large number of those bodies sent back home to India, Nepal et al were killed on construction projects related to the World Cup.

A debating style which involves covering the eyes and reciting lalalalala as loudly as possible isn't really much of a debate.


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## Donger (23 Nov 2022)

They might make decent used camel dealerships.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Not a shred of evidence, not a shred. That's what you said.
> 
> I said, in terms, and correctly paraphrasing the report, that whilst the individual are of death was not categorised, it is an _inevitability _that a very large number of those bodies sent back home to India, Nepal et al were killed on construction projects related to the World Cup.
> 
> A debating style which involves covering the eyes and reciting lalalalala as loudly as possible isn't really much of a debate.



Again, changing the report to suit your own rhetoric…….at least i quoted the report directly and didnt change it to suit my so called debating style.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Mod note:
> 
> Please stick to the exact subject referred to in the thread title and the opening post and keep your posts politics free.
> 
> ...



My aplogies to refering to the NHS but it wasnt to make a political point, but a moral one based on the argument put forward by others about the backs of low paid, immigrant workers.


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## fossyant (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Qatar report - it states since world cup awarded, but not on what infrastructure they were working on….how many died building the road network for the Tour of Qatar????
> 
> Spurs Stadium - that backs up my claim….as the stadium was started in 2015, pre-brexit. How many low paid immigrant workers were employed during its construction????
> 
> and i wonder how much of the 2012 london olympics infrastructure was built on the backs of low paid, immigrant workers???



London 2012, unlikely anyone had to put up with Qatar rules and paid very low wages, and deaths would be absolutely minimal. 

Qatar is something else.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Again, changing the report to suit your own rhetoric…….at least i quoted the report directly and didnt change it to suit my so called debating style.



Compare and contrast styles. 

Ano 'Yes but it doesn’t say where exactly all 6500 died, so there's not a shred of evidence '

Ano '6500 died. The vast majority of the construction work in Qatar over this period is directly related to the World Cup. It is therefore inevitable that a very significant number died on projects to do with the World Cup'

The criterion for a Jury to come to a verdict of guilty is that they must be sure (in former terms, beyond reasonable doubt). I think all reasonable observers faced with the facts in the article would conclude that substantial numbers died on World Cup projects. 

You don't, because 'not a shred of evidence'. 
I find that astonishing.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

fossyant said:


> London 2012, unlikely anyone had to put up with Qatar rules and paid very low wages, and deaths would be absolutely minimal.
> 
> Qatar is something else.



im not answering in case i stray into politics…..because i cant answer, without that happening.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Compare and contrast styles.
> 
> Ano 'Yes but it doesn’t say where exactly all 6500 died, so there's not a shred of evidence '
> 
> ...



Ah, but the original argument put forward to me, was stadium projects….not world cup infrastructure as a whole. So you did change the argument based on your own rhetoric. Hence my commente about the costs of the spurs and chelsea stadia…….but you decided to change that argument by adding in other infrastructure projects, to try and drown out my voice. Which is nothing new in this place.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Ah, but the original argument put forward to me, was stadium projects….not world cup infrastructure as a whole. So you did change the argument based on your own rhetoric. Hence my commente about the costs of the spurs and chelsea stadia…….but you decided to change that argument by adding in other infrastructure projects, to try and drown out my voice. Which is nothing new in this place


Look, squirrel 

Eta 
Some of your posts are errant nonsense, such as these. When this is pointed out, you seem to take it personally. Nobody is drowning you out, you are drowning all on your own.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Look, squirrel



What????


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Look, squirrel
> 
> Eta
> Some of your posts are errant nonsense, such as these. When this is pointed out, you seem to take it personally. Nobody is drowning you out, you are drowning all on your own.



Nice edit……..but as per usual, you only allow people to debate that agree with you. The debate was on stadium infrastructure, you change the goal posts to suite your own rhetoric and now you want to attack me….im not taking anything personally, just not agreeing with your errant and irrational debating style.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Nice edit……..but as per usual, you only allow people to debate that agree with you. The debate was on stadium infrastructure, you change the goal posts to suite your own rhetoric and now you want to attack me….im not taking anything personally, just not agreeing with your errant and irrational debating style.



If it makes you happy then delete any reference to anything *other* than the 8 new stadia.

Do you think that gives your 'argument' any greater credibility?

BTW my edit is a factual statement. The number of occasions that I and others have noted your taking personal offence and flouncing from threads is legion. It's usually the case when you are unable to sustain an argument. 

As for me, I enjoy a good robust debate, but here you really have nothing beyond your continuing attempts at obfuscation I'm afraid.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> If it makes you happy then delete any reference to anything *other* than the 8 new stadia.
> 
> Do you think that gives your 'argument' any greater credibility?
> 
> ...



Yes it does….because the report you linked does no state 6500 deaths link to stadium builds, which is what the debate was over.

I wonder how many deaths there where on infrastructure projects in qatar prior to the world cup being granted in 2010. Because it would seem that you and others only care about post 2010

as for the rest, just usual bluff and bluster….and i have never ever flounce from any thread or debate in my life and i aint starting now.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> Yes it does….because the report you linked does no state 6500 deaths link to stadium builds, which is what the debate was over.
> 
> I wonder how many deaths there where on infrastructure projects in qatar prior to the world cup being granted in 2010. Because it would seem that you and others only care about post 2010
> 
> as for the rest, just usual bluff and bluster….and i have never ever flounce from any thread or debate in my life and i aint starting now.



You are having a logic failure in the first part I'm afraid. I can't help you with that.

The latter part is simply astonishing in its lack of self-awareness.


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## jowwy (23 Nov 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> You are having a logic failure in the first part I'm afraid. I can't help you with that.
> 
> The latter part is simply astonishing in its lack of self-awareness.



So no youve gone from debate, to personal attack………because you got into a debate that you could never win and are now trying to find an out strategy.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

jowwy said:


> So no youve gone from debate, to personal attack………because you got into a debate that you could never win and are now trying to find an out strategy.



You're simply writing nonsense, and illogical nonsense at that.


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## bikingdad90 (23 Nov 2022)

Now now, calm down…
Having read through four pages of thread,

I think the big issue in the press isn’t how many people have died or where, it’s that everyone should have a right to attend work and not come home in a coffin. In my opinion 1 death due to accident is too many. Note: excluding natural things such as heart attacks etc.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Nov 2022)

This thread needs to lighten up a bit. How about some Qatar/Catarrh/Guitar jokes?


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Nov 2022)

bikingdad90 said:


> Now now, calm down…
> Having read through four pages of thread,
> 
> I think the big issue in the press isn’t how many people have died or where, it’s that everyone should have a right to attend work and not come home in a coffin. In my opinion 1 death due to accident is too many. Note: excluding natural things such as heart attacks etc.



That's part of the issue Dave, that is the remarkable number of fit, healthy (all workers passed a full medical to be allowed in) young people who died of 'natural causes' without an autopsy being undertaken.

There has, by almost universal agreement, been an attempt at a huge cover up in Qatar. Note the figure of 6500 is nearly 10000 lower than Amnesty International's estimate.

It is beyond doubt that this is an event built upon the bodies of many overseas construction workers, and it ill behoves anyone to seek to avoid that simple truth.


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