# New boiler time



## gbb (28 Oct 2022)

It lasted circa 30 years, the water tank was around 50 years old, I think we've had our moneys worth 











Condensing boiler, apparently as efficient as almost any out there, loads better than a 30 year old one, however good it was in its day.
Powerflush (system was quite clean apparently but needed to be done for waranter purposes, and inhibitor added) new magnetic doodah filter fitted, all done while we were away for a few days, perfect for all, he could go off and do emergencies i suspect, no uneccessary rush to complete.
£3.3k, recommended independant local plumber. Seems OK to me, £2k almost in materials a powerflush alone is several hundred quid.
Circumstances may mean not going the airsource route may be a mistake...but that just wouldn't suit my need for hot water without significant extra cost (solar etc)
Looking forward to a bath tonight


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## Cycleops (28 Oct 2022)

Had mine replaced in my house in the UK last year. £3500, so your price looks reasonable.


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## si_c (28 Oct 2022)

We were quoted around that for replacing our boiler earlier this year. We ended up not going with the local plumber we use though as they couldn't get it done for a month or so and we were moving in in a week so no hot water was a non-starter for Mrs C.

Viessman seem to be very highly recommended, we went with an Ideal, possibly not as good, but it has a 10year warranty. We were thinking about an airsource, but with the other needed rennovations we couldn't afford it, especially as we'd have needed to replace all the radiators.


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## gbb (28 Oct 2022)

si_c said:


> We were quoted around that for replacing our boiler earlier this year. We ended up not going with the local plumber we use though as they couldn't get it done for a month or so and we were moving in in a week so no hot water was a non-starter for Mrs C.
> 
> Viessman seem to be very highly recommended, we went with an Ideal, possibly not as good, but it has a 10year warranty. We were thinking about an airsource, but with the other needed rennovations we couldn't afford it, especially as we'd have needed to replace all the radiators.



Veissman came with no negative comments from my son (gas engineer) so we went with that, also with 10 year warranty Beware, one colleague at work just complained to me the other week, her 2 or3 year old boiler (don't know whose) failed, manufacturers refused the warranty repair because it hadn't been serviced to their specification apparently ?..one to watch for. I know the installers section of the book had to Indicate a full flush with specific chemicals then inhibitor added plus all the usual stuff so if something doesn't meet requirements, you know they'll pick up on it.


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## si_c (28 Oct 2022)

gbb said:


> Veissman came with no negative comments from my son (gas engineer) so we went with that, also with 10 year warranty Beware, one colleague at work just complained to me the other week, her 2 or3 year old boiler (don't know whose) failed, manufacturers refused the warranty repair because it hadn't been serviced to their specification apparently ?..one to watch for. I know the installers section of the book had to Indicate a full flush with specific chemicals then inhibitor added plus all the usual stuff so if something doesn't meet requirements, you know they'll pick up on it.



Yep, the plumbers we use are really good, I've got the service booked in for next year already. Not worth not servicing a gas appliance anyway.


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## Jameshow (28 Oct 2022)

We had a woscster bosch then an ideal and now back to WB (different houses) all were good, WB quieter than ideal. 

Ideal warranty didn't continue when we failed to get it serviced exactly on anniversary (had a baby iirc) so poor customer service for me. 

Any think the ashp gov message has gone quiet since cop26 and now no one is going to cop27 it will be quietly dropped? Perhaps because of lack of electricity generation capacity?!


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## MrGrumpy (29 Oct 2022)

£3.5 is a cracking price ! We paid £5k 3 yr ago for WB and new hot water tank ( unvented system). Ours was a very ancient hot water storage heater thing. Not very efficient. Also no room stat neither , all controlled off a summer/ winter heating setting and timer.


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## newts (29 Oct 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> £3.5 is a cracking price ! We paid £5k 3 yr ago for WB and new hot water tank ( unvented system). Ours was a very ancient hot water storage heater thing. Not very efficient. Also no room stat neither , all controlled off a summer/ winter heating setting and timer.



Unvented cylinder would have added quite a bit to the price. Money well spent as you have plenty of hot water at mains pressure, no noisy pumps & your shower won't slow to a dribble when someone turns the kitchen tap on (combi boiler).


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## MrGrumpy (29 Oct 2022)

newts said:


> Unvented cylinder would have added quite a bit to the price. Money well spent as you have plenty of hot water at mains pressure, no noisy pumps & your shower won't slow to a dribble when someone turns the kitchen tap on (combo boiler).



Probably explains it then and yes we have good water pressure since we moved here .


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## gbb (29 Oct 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> £3.5 is a cracking price ! We paid £5k 3 yr ago for WB and new hot water tank ( unvented system). Ours was a very ancient hot water storage heater thing. Not very efficient. Also no room stat neither , all controlled off a summer/ winter heating setting and timer.



Yes, tbf, our existing system is / was vented and HW pressure is lower (I didn't know the difference until this post tbf).
We went for the same, minimise cost etc, but it comes at a cost, lower HW pressure, but its what we're used to so nay bother.
His normal rate would have been in the range of £5k but because my son trained him years ago, they kept in touch and he did us a 'mates rates'..I'm not actually sure if we pressed him too far, he came in at 3,8k, we grumbled a bit and he lowered it to 3.3k . I'm sure he wouldn't do it at a loss tbf 
Cash job, done and dusted, I'm sure everyone's happy.

Some might wonder why my son didn't install it ? He doesn't do installs as his day job, doesn't want to and I respect that, wouldn't push him somewhere he didn't really want to go.


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## midlife (29 Oct 2022)

Are you going to lag the pipework?


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## gbb (29 Oct 2022)

midlife said:


> Are you going to lag the pipework?


It has occurred to me. Not too bothered about the CH pipes but I can see value in the HW....and yet, if you (i) think about it, demand for ( our) HW is occasional. Fill a sink maybe twice a day, bathe once a day. Any lagging will hold the temps in the pipes...but only for so long. By the time we'd need to use the HW again, it'd have lost most if the heat,even in lagged pipes. Then there's getting to all the pipes, problematic to say the least.
For continuous or frequent demand, definitely...for us, not sure at all.


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## presta (29 Oct 2022)

I had mine done 5 years ago, it replaced a 35 year old Ideal.
£2895 excluding minor sundries:




The gas bills suggest it's nearer 83% efficient than the 95% it claims, so at the price cap tariff I'll be on when my fixed rate runs out it'll save ~£130 a year. For that, I'd have the old one back tomorrow.


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## si_c (29 Oct 2022)

presta said:


> I had mine done 5 years ago, it replaced a 35 year old Ideal.
> £2895 excluding minor sundries:
> View attachment 666245
> 
> The gas bills suggest it's nearer 83% efficient than the 95% it claims, so at the price cap tariff I'll be on when my fixed rate runs out it'll save ~£130 a year. For that, I'd have the old one back tomorrow.



You have to get it running in condensing mode to get the higher efficiency levels and you also need it to modulate with weather compensation, without these things it's less efficient. Condensing mode is easy, just put it at the eco temperature or lower for central heating but weather compensation needed to have been set up by the installer.


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## MrGrumpy (8 Dec 2022)

So did a wee experiment the last two days , not wholly accurate but it’s probably indicative of why the settings on your boiler are there. 
So as mentioned above we have a unvented condensing boiler. The heat temp setting at the boiler has an eco point . I put that up the the other day to nearly max setting . Well…….. that cost me an extra £4 over the 24hr period for an hours less heating !! 

Must admit prior to the energy crisis I used to have the boiler set to max . Decided this year to set at eco but heating the house took longer. Certainly more noticeable this week with the chill. Had it in my head this maybe a false economy. It proves I was probably wrong ! It’s back to eco and will remain !


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## rogerzilla (9 Dec 2022)

You can't truly run a boiler in condensing mode if you have a hot water cylinder, or the hot water never gets hot enough.

The heat pump people have the sane problem, with hot water not even at legionella-killing temperature*. To get round it they fit a much bigger cylinder - given that you will be running baths and showers with very little cold in the mix, you need to ensure you have a LOT of tepid water.

*most heat pumps have a cycle to (less efficiently) heat the cylinder properly once a week to sterilise it


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## midlife (9 Dec 2022)

I don't know much about heat pump boilers but can you have say a *really* hot shower. 

I know it's not good for you but I like a hot shower in the morning to get me going that's on the hottest setting. Just curious.


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## presta (9 Dec 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> The heat temp setting at the boiler has an eco point . I put that up the the other day to nearly max setting . Well…….. that cost me an extra £4 over the 24hr period for an hours less heating !!


The knob on my boilerstat has a detent which is supposed to mark the optimum point at 60C, which is where it stays, but it doesn't make any difference, because the control system algorithm turns the water temperature down to about 40 regardless after the initial warmup. Even if you turn the water up to 70 and/or the roomstat up to 35, the water temperature will rise at first, but then goes back down to 40-50 even though the roomstat isn't satisfied. They're programmed to save gas even if it means not heating the house adequately.

As I write this, the boiler is set to 60C and roomstat is set to 20C, but it's only reached 18.7C because the boiler has turned the water down to 48.5.


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## Gillstay (9 Dec 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> You can't truly run a boiler in condensing mode if you have a hot water cylinder, or the hot water never gets hot enough.
> 
> The heat pump people have the sane problem, with hot water not even at legionella-killing temperature*. To get round it they fit a much bigger cylinder - given that you will be running baths and showers with very little cold in the mix, you need to ensure you have a LOT of tepid water.
> 
> *most heat pumps have a cycle to (less efficiently) heat the cylinder properly once a week to sterilise it



With a heat pump you can just fit a Mixergy tank and then its very easily and cheaply piping hot water.


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## Gillstay (9 Dec 2022)

Not had the heating on and the tank is 100% full at 61c.


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## si_c (9 Dec 2022)

Gillstay said:


> With a heat pump you can just fit a Mixergy tank and then its very easily and cheaply piping hot water.



Or something like a Sunamp heat battery if space is constrained.


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## MrGrumpy (13 Dec 2022)

My heating is getting a work out just now ! The cold weather is evidently the reason. Decided to pump the £400 gov money back into my energy bill . OVO send me £66 every month , I’m just handing to back . 

Anyway yesterday cost me £15 approx ex vat and standing charge ! Heating on for 8hrs and hot water obviously . Also had the log burner on ! The problems with large open plan house !


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## GuyBoden (13 Dec 2022)

Stainless steel heat exchanger, copper pipes, brass fittings not plastic, larger Grundfos pump.

When I looked for a boiler for my Dad's house a few years ago, I found out that Baxi and Main are the same boiler, but differing warranty lengths.


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## wiggydiggy (13 Dec 2022)

My new combi boiler (a Baxi) has been delivered, just waiting on the man to come fit it. I hope he's here soon as I have multiple layers on and still feel freezing!


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## Jameshow (13 Dec 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> Stainless steel heat exchanger, copper pipes, brass fittings not plastic, larger Grundfos pump.
> 
> When I looked for a boiler for my Dad's house a few years ago, I found out that Baxi and Main are the same boiler, but differing warranty lengths.



What did you choose Guy? Baxi??


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## GuyBoden (13 Dec 2022)

Jameshow said:


> What did you choose Guy? Baxi??



Yes, I got a Baxi, it was an emergency and the local plumber, who lives in next street, fitted it next day. Screw fix sell Baxi boilers.


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## Profpointy (13 Dec 2022)

I've had various makes over the years, including two houses with very old Valient boilers still working fine, and in my previous flat, a valve had got limescaled up and the new part was cheap and easy and it carried on working. mY current house had two Baxi boilers fitted by previous owners only a few years before we moved in. Neither was that great and after one repair then another, we now have a brace of Vallients surprise suprise. Not had them long enough to confirm if they're as long-lived as the old ones, but they work very well, and are noticably quiet. On thing I don't like is you have to control them using an app on your phone - and whilst this works perfectly it just seems an extra complexity, but I dare say a simpler controler is possible. Vallient for me at any rate. And by the time you've paid someone to install the saving on a cheaper make is not that big a % saving arguably


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## wiggydiggy (13 Dec 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> My new combi boiler (a Baxi) has been delivered, just waiting on the man to come fit it. I hope he's here soon as I have multiple layers on and still feel freezing!



He got here at 1530 and is still going. God bless him for getting it fitted so late in the day.

Was hoping to go for a beer tonight but think I am cancelling that but at least I should have heat again!


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## si_c (13 Dec 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> He got here at 1530 and is still going. God bless him for getting it fitted so late in the day.
> 
> Was hoping to go for a beer tonight but think I am cancelling that but at least I should have heat again!



The chap who came to do ours earlier this year turned up at 8am and was here til 5pm, so you might be waiting a while. Will be worth waiting for a warm house though.


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## wiggydiggy (13 Dec 2022)

si_c said:


> The chap who came to do ours earlier this year turned up at 8am and was here til 5pm, so you might be waiting a while. Will be worth waiting for a warm house though.



Yeah he mentioned the boiler being removed was a real crap one to do, he'd normally do over a full day not starting at 1530.

Boiler is on and he's finishing up now


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## si_c (13 Dec 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> Yeah he mentioned the boiler being removed was a real crap one to do, he'd normally do over a full day not starting at 1530.
> 
> Boiler is on and he's finishing up now



Give that man a beer.


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## CXRAndy (14 Dec 2022)

All these long warranty cover, require yearly servicing (qualified technician) and original spares. 

Slip up on service and warranty cover void


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