# 'Bent trike - Tadpole or Delta?



## Sheffield_Tiger (20 Jul 2011)

I'm getting closer to crossing over to the 'bent club soon..

I am fancying a trike but I've looked at 2 possibilities - the tadpole design just seems to "make sense" to my mind, visualising it.

Although I am temprted by the ones that I have seen in the delta configuration but with a conversion...meaning that should I eventually decide to go 2-wheeled on a 'bent I could do without too much outlay.

Opinions from either "club" welcomed....


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## ufkacbln (20 Jul 2011)

I have never seen a machine that can be converted from trike to bike.


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## henshaw11 (21 Jul 2011)

Only one I can think of would be if the 3 wheel conversion kit from raptobike makes it to production:
http://www.raptobike...log/raptotrike/ - see video

The nearest other things are trike conversion kits for uprights , and the Pashley PDQ (when they were in production) came in both 2 and 3 wheel variants which I think just swapped the front end to go between the two.


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## Night Train (21 Jul 2011)

The best thing to do is to try both and then see which best fits your cycling needs.

A Tadpole can be lower down, suit conventional rear panniers, be shorter, have excellent front brakes, possibly sharper steering. However, can lose traction, may be difficult to rig for towing a trailer, can be awkward for some to sit in to (or rather to get out of).

A Delta is often higher up, require ingenuity to hang luggage behing the seat, is longer, can have two wheel drive (if you pay extra for a differential), can tow a trailer easily on a straight bar or a train of more delta trikes, possibly smaller turning circle. However, can have traction/steer issues if one wheel drive, have limited front wheel braking, front panniers can prevent steering and pedalling a the same time.

The Spezi exhibition has a KMX vs Kett Weisel race and the Ketts win and then pull wheelies. However, I would feel more stable bouncing down stairs in a Tadpole then a Kett or doing handbrake turns.

The tadpole should be more stable braking into a fast corner but having said that I have rolled a tadpole but not a delta (yet).

I opted for a tadpole. I could easily find good reason to go for a delta but only with a diff. I have tried both and found the Kett more then a little faster compared to my Ratrike.
My main decider was personal preference for 'go kart' steering and the conventional bike transmission to a single drive wheel. Also I am building a car sized tadpole as an electric vehicle so as to be more like a Morgan three wheeler then a motor bike trike.


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## squeaker (21 Jul 2011)

Take a look on BROL: lots of opinions there.
HTH


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## squeaker (21 Jul 2011)

Take a look on BROL: lots of opinions there.
HTH


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## Sheffield_Tiger (21 Jul 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> I have never seen a machine that can be converted from trike to bike.



Surely if a bike has been converted to a trike with a conversion kit, it should be able to be converted back? Or is there something I am missing about the conversion kits?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/recumbent-trike-tricycle-/170669134926?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item27bcac544e
for an example of the type of thing I mean


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## henshaw11 (21 Jul 2011)

They're not specifically designed with recumbents in mind - the one in that link 

The frame was built by rainbow cycles and then a ken rogers conversion

looks like its one of the upright conversion kits I mentioned, ie

http://www.tricycleassociation.org.uk/RogersGallery.html

This Holdworth kit:
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/trike-conversion-components.html
relies on being about to bolt the support struts to the seat tube pinch-bolt
- on looking at the ebay item, that's got similar struts which mount at the upper/rear of the seat to the frame.
Obviously needs a non-suspension rear end...

I must admit Rainbow's not one I'd heard one, but from here:
http://paul.kinlan.me/recumbent-cycles
it appears to be a Dutch manufacturer (that UK link's dead btw)
Ah...
http://www.rainbowligfietsen.nl/


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## Sheffield_Tiger (22 Jul 2011)

squeaker said:


> Take a look on BROL: lots of opinions there.
> HTH




Yes, some helpful posts and threads, thanks





henshaw11 said:


> They're not specifically designed with recumbents in mind - the one in that link
> 
> The frame was built by rainbow cycles and then a ken rogers conversion
> 
> looks like its one of the upright conversion kits I mentioned, ie



Ah, that makes sense



I am liking the look (and price compared to other brands) of the catrike trail....shame I can't afford it just now, there's a nice looking pocket on eBay that although pink, would be a prime candidate for a repaint and should just fit me at 5'8"

I always carry panniers so the tadpole configuration makes more sense to me for me

Only concern is the low height in traffic, some have suggested the catrike and most tadpoles are just too low (compared to the height of a regular 'bent bike or a delta)


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## Riding in Circles (22 Jul 2011)

Rubbish, trikes are fine, I ride them a lot in traffic, flag is a good idea in slow moving traffic but in general drivers would rather go off the other side of the road than go anywhere near you.


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## henshaw11 (22 Jul 2011)

Well, that tends to be the case for 'bents in general- but how do you find filtering on one ? - when I started looking at 'bents a long time ago I was hankering after a trike, but I came to conclusion that the height/width of a trike wouldn't be quite as practical as something vaguely driver head-height and a bit narrower (eg Hurricane or Speedmachine).


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## byegad (22 Jul 2011)

See my signature. 

I'm expecting delivery mid August and will post my impressions once I have a few miles on it. One difference between mine and the factory specification will be an MTB Crankset for getting me up some of our local 'big hills'.


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## Riding in Circles (22 Jul 2011)

henshaw11 said:


> Well, that tends to be the case for 'bents in general- but how do you find filtering on one ? - when I started looking at 'bents a long time ago I was hankering after a trike, but I came to conclusion that the height/width of a trike wouldn't be quite as practical as something vaguely driver head-height and a bit narrower (eg Hurricane or Speedmachine).



Filtering on a trike is no fun, you can do it sometimes but not always, but the ability to not have to unclip at junctions makes up for it.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (22 Jul 2011)

How awkward are bent trikes to push in "dismount" situations

Just for instance, if I had to leave it locked in the train station - cycling through the station is a no-no

Though TBH I'd use my upright mostly for any journeys like that due to locking issues not to mention the cost of the trike over a bike


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## byegad (22 Jul 2011)

A Delta is pulled. Just pick up the front wheel and it follows you. A Tadpole is a more awkward beast to push as you can't steer from the back, so you pick up the back wheel and it follows behind you, not as simple as a Delta but it can be done!


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## n-ick (22 Jul 2011)

Yo ,
the black trike on ebay was one that started out as a 2 wheeler. 
I then bought a Ken Rogers rear and bolted it on. Thus this could be removed and a 26" wheel put back in.
There are fixings for canti type brakes to the rear wheel.

I found the 2 wheel very skittish and the 3 wheeled version unstable due to height of the rider/seat. It was easy to lift a wheel/roll.
I then sold it on. Intersting in that it has 3 chainsets to get the chain line over to the drive.

Susequently I've had 2 tadpoles and tried a few deltas.
For speed and comfort you could do no better than a tadpole, ie. Ice Qnt. 
For stability and ease of getting on the seat the deltas are ace.
We tried in deep snow/ice to try and flip a Kett over. No way could we do it, it was that stable. 
However we found the Greenspeed Anura a bit liftable at speed, 
maybe due to it's 16" wheels.

There's a few trikes on fleabay now for those thinking of buying 2nd hand.


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## Fiona N (22 Jul 2011)

byegad said:


> so you pick up the back wheel and it follows behind you...



Of course, if you have a Windcheetah with a rear rack on, there is a very convenient bar over the rear wheel which for me is ideal for picking the back wheel up (even with luggage on) and pulling it along. Otherwise on even ground, I can just centre the steering and push it along with my hand on the top of the headrest. Although it has to be said, I don't push/pull the Windcheetah much, I'm much happier cycling really slowly and calling out to pedestrians


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## ufkacbln (22 Jul 2011)

henshaw11 said:


> Well, that tends to be the case for 'bents in general- but how do you find filtering on one ? - when I started looking at 'bents a long time ago I was hankering after a trike, but I came to conclusion that the height/width of a trike wouldn't be quite as practical as something vaguely driver head-height and a bit narrower (eg Hurricane or Speedmachine).



I have a Catrike Expedition, a Street Machine and a Hurricane. The Catrike is physically not a lot bulkier than one of the others when laden.

When it comes to filtering, it is in some ways easier as you are more stable. I find that any gap I cannot make on the trike, is probably one that I would not consider on the Street Machine or Hurricane either. In fact in traffic the fact you don't need to put a foot down makes moving off a lot easier and faster, and without any wobbling.

All in all the trike is as good as if not a better vehicle in traffic than the two machines you cite.


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## byegad (23 Jul 2011)

I find my Kettwiesel is better at filtering than the QNT, even though it's a tad* wider. The higher seat level helps too.

*Tad... An engineering term meaning a measurable difference.


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## ufkacbln (23 Jul 2011)

byegad said:


> I find my Kettwiesel is better at filtering than the QNT, even though it's a tad* wider. The higher seat level helps too.
> 
> *Tad... An engineering term meaning a measurable difference.



As opposed to the much finer measurement of a "Smidge"


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## byegad (23 Jul 2011)

There's also a gnat's cock hair and a midges dick. Both terms used by my late fitter and turner father.


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## swscotland bentrider (24 Jul 2011)

I used to steer my ICE Q by the rear carrier when dismounted. The trike would respond to sideways pressure on the rack by steering in the opposite direction. I used this method a lot but it does have its limits.


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## henshaw11 (25 Jul 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> I have a Catrike Expedition, a Street Machine and a Hurricane. The Catrike is physically not a lot bulkier than one of the others when laden.
> 
> When it comes to filtering, it is in some ways easier as you are more stable. I find that any gap I cannot make on the trike, is probably one that I would not consider on the Street Machine or Hurricane either. In fact in traffic the fact you don't need to put a foot down makes moving off a lot easier and faster, and without any wobbling.
> 
> All in all the trike is as good as if not a better vehicle in traffic than the two machines you cite.



I agree re the advantage of stability - and although it's possibly I might consider smaller gaps if I can get through them in one go, once you allow for wobble room on an (unladen USS) two wheeler vs a trike there's probably not a lot in it width-wise. My concern (on a lowish trike) would be more about drivers spotting you when approaching from behind, and in particular being able to eyeball them to check what they're doing and whether they've seen you - some lane-splitting in the rain a few weeks ago comes to mind. As it is I'm always a bit more wary where Chelsea Tractors are concerned, since they're that much taller.
It's not that often a problem but motorists tend to be a bit dopey when it comes to stopping next to pedestrian reservations/refuges - it's rare not to get the SPM through foot-down but I'd be stuffed on a trike.


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## starhawk (31 Jul 2011)

The decision of a Tadpole or a Delta is a question of where you are going, the Delte can possibly have a tighter turning cycle than the Tadpole, but the Tadpole is more stable in the turns and have superior braking power, and as you are generally lower on the tadpole you have much less wind resistance too. Converting from a three-wheeler to two-wheeler is really no decision, after trying a three-wheeler you will not go back. The lower profile of the tadpole has been no problem in trafick, the cars see your flag and usually give you a wide berth


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## byegad (1 Aug 2011)

I find my Kettwiesel is as stable as my QNT. In fact I've yet to lift a wheel on the Kett' whereas I have lifted the inside wheel of the QNT a couple of times. It's perfectly easy to control and only happens at truly silly speeds! 
The turning circle of the Kettwiesel is incredibly tight but the much larger turning circle of the QNT isn't an issue unless you really want to do U turns on cycle tracks!


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## n-ick (1 Aug 2011)

_"My concern (on a lowish trike) would be more about drivers spotting you when approaching from behind, and in particular being able to eyeball them to check what they're doing and whether they've seen you - some lane-splitting in the rain a few weeks ago comes to mind. As it is I'm always a bit more wary where Chelsea Tractors are concerned, since they're that much taller.
It's not that often a problem but motorists tend to be a bit dopey when it comes to stopping next to pedestrian reservations/refuges - it's rare not to get the SPM through foot-down but I'd be stuffed on a trike."_



Yo,
theory suggests that a driver can easily spot and avoid a brick on the road.
I've never had a problem. Best thing is a mirror on each side and a flag on a pole.

I find that on a road bike , drivers will come too close, but keep away from a trike. 
As for sightlines, then you will be at the same height or higher than most silly sports cars. 

As for rider saftey, the higher the seat, the more insecure I feel. 
a low seat you sit in the trike and not on it.


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## ufkacbln (1 Aug 2011)

Why are we pussyfooting around with all this advice and discussion?

he answer is staring us in the face................

Buy one of each!


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## Sheffield_Tiger (1 Aug 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> Why are we pussyfooting around with all this advice and discussion?
> 
> he answer is staring us in the face................
> 
> Buy one of each!



lol, if only

Storage is going to be an issue for one, never mind two - might end up having to buy some kind of locker


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## byegad (1 Aug 2011)

See my signature!


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## ufkacbln (1 Aug 2011)

byegad said:


> See my signature!



My first recumbent was a Linear, followed by a 1994 Trice, a Challenge Hurricane and a Street Machine. I got rid of Trice to Bike MAgic, and sold the Linear, but replaced them with a Catrike Expedition and a Gekko

I have played with the Kettwiesel, but I preferred the Catrike, and the Gekko fitted a "folding agenda"

I am quite tempted by the Rotovelo but I suspect I will have to murder the wife as she will not give permission


(Actually thinking about it... I could claim the insurance and finance it as well!)




Give Ian my regards when you get the Trail.


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## zoxed (2 Aug 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> I have never seen a machine that can be converted from trike to bike.



Then you have not seen all the Zoxes !! Front wheel drive and you can "plug-in" different "backends": 2 wheels or 1: see Zox Trike.


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## byegad (2 Aug 2011)

n-ick said:


> As for rider saftey, the higher the seat, the more insecure I feel.
> a low seat you sit in the trike and not on it.



I'd vouch for that. I sit on my Kettwiesel and in my QNT. That's how it feels and that's how I find myself describing it. 

The Kettwiesel is a one of in my opinion for Deltas. The inward sloping rear wheels add a huge amount of stability. I spoke to someone who tried another type delta and they said they felt it was less stable than their Trice. I'd say both my QNT and Kett' are equally stable.


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## henshaw11 (5 Aug 2011)

n-ick said:


> _"My concern (on a lowish trike) would be more about drivers spotting you when approaching from behind, _
> 
> Yo,
> theory suggests that a driver can easily spot and avoid a brick on the road.



To clarify - the context was filtering, where *I'm* approaching from behind, not the driver...I'm quite aware of drivers being able to see me when *they're* approaching from behind, I've been riding one for long enough 

I agree re 'one of each' ..I did start off wanting a human-powered go-kart  - but that'll have to sit in line behind other wants/commitments, not to mention the n of n+1 has become a little too large already...


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