# Shimano Di* do and do not.



## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

It appears that as electronic shifting becomes more affordable and more widely available many members of this forum are now getting bikes fitted with this.
I have been thinking about creating a thread for a while documenting difference between Ultegra Di2 and Dura-Ace, Tips and Tricks, Common Faults and Troubleshooting the system, how to do custom battery installations, custom shifting buttons, and other things which may interest such as mtb di2, bent di2.

I am a massive fan of Di2 and very enthusiastic about it, I do not however claim to have extensive knowledge of the system, what I know at thus point has been learn't by trial and error and research.

*Note : *from this point forward Ultegra specific information will be refereed to as Ui2 and Dura-Ace as Di2


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

*Differences between Di2 and Ui2 :*

One of the questions I get asked most often is if Di2 is vastly better than Ui2 and my opinion relating to this. Having used both systems extensively over time my thoughts are placed below. This information is my opinion and nothing else. It is not a conclusion based on scientific research but my own experiences and beliefs.

*Weight* :
Ui2 is heavier - forget the quoted weights as component weight does fluctuate slightly but generally Ui2 weighs around 200 grams more than Di2
*Size* :
Ui2 components are generally larger where servo's are mounted, this is due to using slightly larger and less expensive servos than found in Di2 derailleurs
*Brake Levers :*
Ui2 brake levers are alloy instead of carbon
*Control Box* :
The Control box on Ui2 has a nicer finish than Di2 and is slimmer
*Loom :*
The loom on Ui2 is slimmer and the cable ties clip on and off compared to Di2
*Compatibility :*
Di2 uses a five pin connector that has specific mounting points within the loom, Ui2 uses two core wiring based on CANbus which is a technology that allows networked devices using multiple controllers to communicate with each other*.*
*Durability :*
Ui2 is waterproof when its connected, Di2 requires heat shrink and is less resistant to the challenges of weather*.*

*Ui2 vs Di2 - Living with them*
Ui2 front shifting quality as long as it features a Ulegra or DuraAce crankset is identical to that offered by Di2 anyone who trys to tell you otherwise is attempting to justify the more expensive Di2 they have on their bike. The only thing which Di2 has to offer with regards to front shifting is a drop in weight and it is quieter due to using better servo's
Ui2 rear shifting does however lose out a little to Di2 not only is it a little more noisy but dropping down a gear feels less refined and slick, When shifting under load it feels a little clunky compared to Di2. Under regular shifting the experience is pretty much the same.
(I have seen some budget Ui2 bikes which do not have a Shimano cassette this can increase that clunky sensation)

*What Do I run and Why?*
I like running Di2 and the reason for this is that it has a slightly more polished look about the components. It is also easier to modify than Ui2 due to the Ui2's CANbus system which makes things a little more challenging (but not impossible, more on this later)
If you require electronic shifting and do not wish to modify the system then imho Ui2 is a better system and more resilient to the weather, but this is at the expense of flexibility*.*

more coming soon


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

*Tips, Tricks and Trouble Shooting.*

*Only use 27 tooth cogs.*
The ten speed Di2 should only be used with a 27 tooth cassette, many people try the Dura-Ace 7900 11-28 cassette, simply don't do this as it results in frequent chain hangs and drops. (*update : *Ten speed Ui2 is apparently not subject to this issue as stated in this thread)
*Don't pull the connections*
There is a removal tool for taking the connections out, use it otherwise you may have to buy new loom sections. (Di2 tool = TL-EW01 , Ui2 Tool = TL-EW02)
*Continue being able to count to ten*
When you first connect the battery to the system it powers the motors on the derailleurs enough to pinch your fingers. When this is under power by the battery is is very very difficult to move the derailleur enough to release your fingers (_apparently, so I have heard from somewhere_  )
*Do not Jetwash*
I have seen a number of systems with issues after bikes being jet washed, no science, no supporting evidence other than experience. Ui2 and Di2 do not like being jet washed imho.. Do so at your own risk.
*Battery Flat on a Ride*
You deserve to push your bike home for being so stupid, although the system actually goes into limp home mode. First the front shifting will stop to save energy, the the rear. You should however never be in this position as there is a battery check which should be carried out after every ride. To check the battery's charge simply hold down a shift button and look at the control box LED, solid green is 100%, blinking green is 50%, solid red is 25% and blinking red means your gear selection is about to be limited shortly.
If you do drain the standard battery you will have about 180 shifts on the rear after the front shifts stop working.
Charging time for the standard battery is approximately 90 minutes so you can get a good charge in while you get dressed for your ride. You have no excuses.
*Dropped your bike and it no longer shifts?* 
These systems have a protection circuit built into them so that when the derailleur gets forced in a fall no damage is done to the system. To reset the system hold the button down on the LED control box for five seconds until the red light flashes.
*Bottom Bracket Badness*
When servicing or working on your bottom bracket take exceptional care to ensure that you do not catch or damage the internally routed wires.
*Intermittent Shifting*
This is usually a symptom of the standard battery being mounted externally on the frame set, in an area which is exposed such as the downtube or around the chain stays when your bike gets wet you can get moisture on the battery terminals, clean the the battery terminals and protect the battery contacts from further moisture. Shimano sell a special grease for this purpose (_I use petroleum jelly but this is not a recommendation_) I have equally seen standard battery setups wrapped in cling film which I would not advise as although this keeps water out, It can also help keep it in. Im not a fan of WD40 or similar as it places a glaze on the battery and makes it look terrible.
*Minor Shift Adjustment*
To do minor adjustments which is also referred to as trim mode hold the button down on the LED control until the red light stays on. Tap the forward shift paddle for small advances of shift (when downshifting to bigger cogs), rearward shift paddle when retarding shift (when up shifting to smaller cogs) high and low grub screws provide traditional hard stop settings.
More coming soon


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

*Battery Modifications :*

*Background*
When Di2 was first seen in the pro ranks it was pretty much used as Shimano intended, over time battery placement seemed to be a challenge with it regularly moving over various teams bike apparently seeking optimal placement. When specialized released the Venge areo bike battery placement seemed to become even more important as it impacted the aerodynamics of the bike. Team Highroad took the steps of placing the battery inside the seat post of the bike of Mark Cavendish, which is why the seat post battery conversion is commonly known as the Cav Conversion.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/pro-bike-mark-cavendishs-htc-specialized-mclaren-venge-30158/

*Pro's*
With a seat post battery you get to hide that fugly standard battery, you also end up with a lighter system as the seat post battery does not have a heavy mounting system and the battery is not wrapped in plastic, you can also increase the battery capacity if you wish at this time and put in place in bike charging. Once you have done this mod you have a standard fugly shimano battery which you can sell along with the charger and mounting system.
*Con's* 
If you run Di2, none do it now !!!! -- If you run Ui2 the CANbus interface which as previously stated allows networked devices to recognize one another makes this a little more challenging but not impossible. You require components to get the system to recognize the new battery as part of the system, Shimano do not sell these so you have to break apart working components to claim them as such if you are taking the DIY option you have nothing to sell to get some money back 
This is the same issue with custom shifters for Ui2 as such if your going to hack the system Di2 is a better starting point.

*Can you get plug and play seat post batteries.*
Calfee were responsible for the original Cav post battery and also did the bike of one of the top guys in Shimano US - They are not cheap but they do the very best conversions and the quality is second to none. Calfee also do retrofit for bikes not made for Di2 or Ui2
http://www.calfeedesign.com/product/components/di2-internal-battery/

Icaruslights do a nice sealed USB chargable battery for the seatpost.
http://icaruslights.com/batteries/

*What are my other options*.
DIY basically is your last option, there are many options available from converting the original battery to an internal version, to using the battery cells from RC cars, to building your own battery packs... If you want more information relating to DIY and pointing in the right direction please feel free to message me. the options are to extensive to discuss in a general information thread like this


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

*Custom Shifting Modifications*

*Shimano SW-7972 Sprint Buttons*
The shimano sprint buttons are an official additional shifter for the electronic group sets, its usage is like a hair trigger, a twitch of the thumb and it changes gear. This shifter can be positioned anywhere on the drops and is popular with sprinters such as Mark Cavendish in the pro ranks
A great review of the sprint shifters can be located at Bike Radar.
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/shimano-dura-ace-di2-sprint-shifter-first-ride-review-29302/

*The SW-7972 Buttons*
This image shows the full buttons, the bar clips along with the loom plug. 




*The SW-7972 Buttons*
The image below shows a close up of the sprint buttons
*



*​
*The SW-7972 Buttons*
The image below shows the sprint buttons fitted to bars and ready for use, note that you have to cut the bar tape to expose the buttons, you can see the positioning of the hand ready to flick the button with the thumb for lightening shifts
*



*​
*Living with sprint buttons.*
I have tried a number of different shift button combinations on my bikes and although many work well, they can have a certain novelty value and after a while you do not use them as often as you think. Sprint buttons however do not fall into this category and remain on my bike, you can view my album to see them on my Venge. They remain non invasive, easy to fit and work every bit as well as they suggest. You can not begin to explain just how slick they are, hair trigger does not describe the action subtlety enough, its more a trip wire sensation. Soon as you put any pressure however slight on the button... Boom you have changed gear, Awesome !! - If you spend a lot of time in the drops, then these are made for you.

*Shimano SW-7970 Satellite Shifter*
The shimano satellite shifter is an official additional shifter for the electronic group sets, its meant for people who spend a lot of time on the top of the bars. This shifter can be positioned anywhere on the bar tops and is popular with riders such as Frank Schleck in the pro ranks
A great review of the satellite shifters can be located at Bike Radar.
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/new-satellite-shifter-for-shimano-dura-ace-di2-24933/
*SW-7970 Satellite Shifter*The image below shows the satellite shifter with loom plug
*



*​
*SW-7970 Satellite Shifter*The image below shows the satellite shifter fitted to the bars*.*
*



*​
*Living with satellite shifters.*
The satellite shifters are great if you live on the bar tops and the sifting is great, but they simply lack the added performance offered by the sprint shifters imho. The mounting is unattractive so I generally mount them with adhesive pads. These shifters are used extensively in MTB Di2 conversions. I find it difficult to be over enthusiastic about these shifters as they most certain work well, however they offer nothing more, no additional feature set.. They offer convenience, how much is this worth to you.
More shifting coming soon


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

i have thrown the place markers in, as I have quite a bit of info to provide and this will take me a little time 

I will also attempt to assist with any questions people have along the way, if anyone else wants to chime in with the answers please do​


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## smokeysmoo (23 Sep 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> *Battery Flat on a Ride*
> You deserve to push your bike home for being so stupid


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## Sittingduck (23 Sep 2012)

Nice thread - cheers!


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## StuAff (23 Sep 2012)

Dead right on the battery life thing. One of the most frequently asked 'issues' with electronic shifting that some see with it. Cycling Active had a feature a few months back, readers testing Ui2 bikes, and three out of four mentioned it. I've heard it mentioned on FNRttCs....and it just isn't an issue, unless you're a complete numpty. Test after test of all the electronic groups, and plenty of blogs from people who've been running it for some time, tells people the batteries last for ages, and that you get plenty of warning when the thing needs a charge. Still some don't listen.


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## Smokin Joe (23 Sep 2012)

This thread should be a sticky.


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## CopperCyclist (23 Sep 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> *Tips, Tricks and Trouble Shooting.*
> 
> *Only use 27 tooth cogs.*
> The ten speed Ui2 and Di2 should only be used with a 27 tooth cassette, many people try the Dura-Ace 7900 11-28 cassette, simply don't do this as it results in frequent chain hangs and drops.





Thank you very, very much! This was due to be my next cassette, you've saved me some cash!


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## Sittingduck (23 Sep 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> *Only use 27 tooth cogs.*
> The ten speed Ui2 and Di2 should only be used with a 27 tooth cassette, many people try the Dura-Ace 7900 11-28 cassette, simply don't do this as it results in frequent chain hangs and drops.


 
Just to confirm, that it runs ok with 11-25 etc, right? Or does it literally have problems with anything but a x-27?


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> Just to confirm, that it runs ok with 11-25 etc, right? Or does it literally have problems with anything but a x-27?


 
To be quite honest, I have not run or helped troubleshoot it with an 11-25 so can not accurately comment. I do not believe there would be a physical issue with an 11-25 but that nothing more than my gut feeling based on experiences with the system on mtb bikes as well, hopefully you would be able to clarify if there are any issues and save me from having to learn by mistake at some point. 
Unfortunately I have no specific experience with 11-25 on the system at this time, sorry.


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## Sittingduck (23 Sep 2012)

Ok, cool.


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## dan_bo (23 Sep 2012)

So at this point in time it's not for british MTBers yet....?


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## ziggys101 (23 Sep 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> Just to confirm, that it runs ok with 11-25 etc, right? Or does it literally have problems with anything but a x-27?


 
Mine is running with Ultegra CS-6700 11-25


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

ziggys101 said:


> Mine is running with Ultegra CS-6700 11-25


 
There's the answer we were looking for.  -- Nice one Ziggy
Glad im learning new things as well. 

One other thing which may be of note is that you can upgrade the firmware of Ui2 as such it may get greater functionality as time goes by which allows it to do things Di2 can not.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

dan_bo said:


> So at this point in time it's not for british MTBers yet....?


 
Shimano have not released a specific MTB kit as of yet, there are a number of DIY ways you can do this, and an after market kit by K-Edge called Ki2 which works exceptionally well if your not the type to DIY. If you are going to DIY best start with Di2 rather than Ui2 for the reasons stated previously. It is pretty cheap to do DIY on a MTB compared to a road bike as you do not require all the kit
http://www.ki2bike.com


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## dan_bo (23 Sep 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Shimano have not released a specific MTB kit as of yet, there are a number of DIY ways you can do this, and an after market kit by K-Edge called Ki2 which works exceptionally well if your not the type to DIY. If you are going to DIY best start with Di2 rather than Ui2 for the reasons stated previously. It is pretty cheap to do DIY on a MTB compared to a road bike as you do not require all the kit
> http://www.ki2bike.com


I was talking about the waterproofabilityness as much as anything. Good thread by the way.


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## ziggys101 (23 Sep 2012)

dan_bo said:


> I was talking about the waterproofabilityness as much as anything. Good thread by the way.


 
I'm sure I read (but cant find it now) that the system is IP67 rated this means it can work 1m under water for 30min


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

dan_bo said:


> I was talking about the waterproofabilityness as much as anything.


 
Strangely the MTB's suffer from the same issues regarding waterproofabilityness. The deraileurs have no issue. The issues are generally seen around the connections for wiring on Di2 and the battery on both of them. These are the same issues seen on road bikes.
If you grease the battery contacts with the Shimano grease for this purpose and ensure that wiring is watertight you do not really experience any issues.
Because the execution of Di2 on MTB is a little more challenging, most are carried out really really well, unfortunately the same can't be said for road bikes
The biggest problem generally seem to be badly executed or set up instalations.

Hope this goes some way towards answering your question better.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

ziggys101 said:


> I'm sure I read (but cant find it now) that the system is IP67 rated this means it can work 1m under water for 30min


 
That is most certainly the claim from what I remember, although im not quite sure what happens after that period of time. Im also not personally convinced of its accuracy.
The battery case and mounting are plastic so will wear with fitting over time, Shimano know this and will sell you special grease for the purpose of keeping the battery contacts waterproof, which suggests to me its not flawless (another reason for a seatpost battery)
Shimano also request that connections for Di2 are protected with heatshrink which suggests further questions about suitability of design.
The fact Shimano changed Ui2 so drastically in my mind shows they have learnt from previous issues and developed the product further. The wiring and connections are so much better than Di2 imho

wanna try it with your bike, let us know for certain


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## ziggys101 (23 Sep 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> wanna try it with your bike, let us know for certain


 
I think I'll give it a miss, I did however jetwash it down after todays ride then read you advice not to  . What are you thought on disconnecting the battery in between rides or do you just leave it connected all the time?


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## fossyant (23 Sep 2012)

Bikes in general don't like pressure washing. Huge psi on a decent pressure washer. If you can clean the crap with a hose, then do it. I never pressure wash any of my bikes, and only the MTB gets a hose off. And I am using old technology kit.


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## HovR (23 Sep 2012)

fossyant said:


> Bikes in general don't like pressure washing. Huge psi on a decent pressure washer. If you can clean the crap with a hose, then do it. I never pressure wash any of my bikes, and only the MTB gets a hose off. And I am using old technology kit.


 
Agreed. I've seen pressure washers take paint off cars before, so it's staying away from my bikes! Good old soapy water for me.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

The mech's on Di2 and Ui2 can start to click when jet washed no idea why though and shimano happily replace them, I think there may be some lubricant in the servo functionality which is removed by the pressure. Seen it a few times and twice on the same bike and when we sent the parts back Shimano advised us not to clean with a Jetwash even though we made no reference to this... So I take the advise given.

I would personally leave the battery in for as long as possible and only remove when it requires charging. Im not personally aware of any advantage with removing it regulary other than potentially keeping it cleaner and then I would advise using the grease if your that particular. Although I just see that issue as a bigger reason to do a seat post battery and in bike charging. Removes the issues in one go. You can see a picture of the battery setup I use in my Album, lighter than standard and a larger capacity.


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## fossyant (23 Sep 2012)

Jet wash on a bike is a no no anyway. Good hose off for a mtb, then the usual lube. Never ever use a jet wash electronic or not.


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## CopperCyclist (23 Sep 2012)

I've just recalled something! When I was deciding which bike to go for, Focus or Cube I noticed the cube had a Compact with an 11-28 cassette and the Focus a Double with a 12-25. I wanted spinning, sportive type gears so held out for ages waiting for the cube. Eventually I changed my mind, and went for the Focus, with a Compact and the 12-25 as a compromise.

As the Cube allegedly would have come with the 11-28, are you sure it's a definite no-no? It could have been an error in the catalogue the LBS guy looked it up in I guess?


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Sep 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> As the Cube allegedly would have come with the 11-28, are you sure it's a definite no-no? It could have been an error in the catalogue the LBS guy looked it up in I guess?


 
Certain its been a no-no and I have seen this isue myself on the RD-7970 rear derailleur and have found it documented elsewhere such as the link below on performance bike blog.
http://blog.performancebike.com/2010/02/16/spin-doc-tech-tip-dura-ace-di2/

As Ui2 is firmwear upgradable this issue may now be resolved in Ui2, if this is the case and you can confirm this please provide the part number for the rear mech so I can make the appropiate changes to the notes.  I will also try to get clarity on this myself.

We could end up with a really good thread once everyone has contributed the bit they know.


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## ziggys101 (24 Sep 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> As the Cube allegedly would have come with the 11-28, are you sure it's a definite no-no? It could have been an error in the catalogue the LBS guy looked it up in I guess?


 
I've just checked on the Canyon site where I bought mine, the standard cassette on the Swiss only Di2 (Ui2) model is in fact a 11-28 so you should be OK, look on the equipment tab in the link

https://www.canyon.com/_uk/roadbikes/bike.html?b=10023


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## srw (24 Sep 2012)

It would need to be updated regularly, but indication of how much more expensive electronic shifting is than cable shifting would be useful. I'm looking ahead a few years, but I'm wondering if electronic isn't the way to go the next time we have to change the tandem transmission. Which, at the moment is a mishmash of Ultegra, Dura Ace and XT to give a stupidly wide range: 53-11 down to 28-34.


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## black'n'yellow (24 Sep 2012)

srw said:


> It would need to be updated regularly, but indication of how much more expensive electronic shifting is than cable shifting would be useful.


 
Here's a tip - look up the price for your Di2 or Ui2 groupset - then compare with mechanical option = job done.


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## CopperCyclist (24 Sep 2012)

It may be that the Ui2 rear dérailleur, the CS6700 can take the 11-28 cassette where the Di2 7970 cannot then? Ziggys post would seem to confirm that the Canyon came with it, as would the Cube I had my eye on!

I have the CS6700 - do you have any experience with trying that mech with an 11-28 cassette? I'm guessing it may also be easier on the mech if it's running with a compact up front, so the longest chain combo is 50/28 rather than 53/28.

I think when the time comes (I was going to do it when I next replaced my chain) I'll get the 'advice' of the LBS, purely as I know they'll assume the 11-28 will fit, that way if it doesn't they should replace it for free! I'll let you know, however it's not likely to be soon...


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## StuAff (24 Sep 2012)

Ultegra Di2 goes up to 28 officially- Shimano technical documents say so. Larger (i.e. MTB ) cassettes can work under circumstances Ask Nick: Proof that running an 11-32 on Ultegra Di2 is possible.


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Sep 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> It may be that the Ui2 rear dérailleur, the CS6700 can take the 11-28 cassette where the Di2 7970 cannot then? Ziggys post would seem to confirm that the Canyon came with it, as would the Cube I had my eye on!.


 
Looks to be the case,  one up on the score board for Ui2 then



StuAff said:


> Ultegra Di2 goes up to 28 officially- Shimano technical documents say so. Larger (i.e. MTB ) cassettes can work under circumstances Ask Nick: Proof that running an 11-32 on Ultegra Di2 is possible.


 
Great information and useful link, looks like I might have some editing to do eventually.  -- Good to have this one confirmed one way or another .... Nice one guys.


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## dodgy (24 Sep 2012)

I have Ultegra DI2 on my Rose, and yes, it came with a 11-28 cassette and I have had no problems at all with shifting.


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## e-rider (24 Sep 2012)

I was happy with 105 until reading this thread - now I want electronic but have no cash - this thread has ruined my day!


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## Jdratcliffe (27 Sep 2012)

e-rider said:


> I was happy with 105 until reading this thread - now I want electronic but have no cash - this thread has ruined my day!


+1


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## Mr Haematocrit (29 Sep 2012)

Still working on the thread 
Updated the shifting options...

Got my hands on Di2 11 speed today


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## BigTam (30 Sep 2012)

My Merida Scultura Evo 905 Di2 (Ultegra) came with a 12-28 cassette.

If anyone local to me, Newcastle upon Tyne area, wants to play around with their Di2 (Ultegra) settings, I have the diagnostics tool.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Sep 2012)

BigTam said:


> If anyone local to me, Newcastle upon Tyne area, wants to play around with their Di2 (Ultegra) settings, I have the diagnostics tool.


 
Nice offer BigTam good on you. 
I recall having a discussion about the diagnostic tool with you, have you done much with it at this time?
I have some custom firmwear for Ui2 if you want it, swaps the shift to the opposite side of the bars.


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## BigTam (30 Sep 2012)

Cheers for that V, I have been using the Shimano Etube project software, been having a play around, did use it to change shifters around, but was wierd when using them, back to stock now.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Sep 2012)

BigTam said:


> Cheers for that V, I have been using the Shimano Etube project software, been having a play around, did use it to change shifters around, but was wierd when using them, back to stock now.


 
lol, I know exactly what you mean, it took me about six months of creating weirdness in the shifting before I learnt enough to do anything really good with it. Some of the things suggested as being the holy grail such as being able to increase shifting speed im equally suspect of, the default setting chosen my Shimano is about right imho, any faster and the servo on the derailuers have trouble keeping up. You can get a tendency to throw chains.

Also let your LBS know you have the kit, they will often call you for assistence in troubleshooting issues, it works well for when you need a favor.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Oct 2012)

*Ui2 News :-*
Seems that electronic shifting is reaching the masses with Boardman now offering this as an option and singing the praises. Boardman bike are traditional great value for money and offer good specs for the money... For 2013 they have released the Air 9.0S and SLR 9.0S come equipped with Shimano Ultegra Di2 electric groupset, Mavic Aksium wheels, Shimano 105 brakes, FSA Energy chainset and retail for £2,699.99. and the Air 9.2S and SLR 9.2S models which also have Ultegra Di2 but have an uprated component spec, including Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, Ultegra brakes and FSA SLK Carbon chainset. The price for each of these models is £3,499.99.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/534985/boardman-goes-electric-for-2013.html


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## Carbon (2 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Looks to be the case,  one up on the score board for Ui2 then
> 
> 
> 
> Great information and useful link, looks like I might have some editing to do eventually.  -- Good to have this one confirmed one way or another .... Nice one guys.


 
Just to add my tuppence worth: I have run 11-25 and 11-27 Dura Ace cassettes with my Dura Ace Di2 equipped bike with no issue whatsoever. Shimano definitely only rate the RD-7970 up to a max of 27 teeth!! Here is the best Shimano tech document for setup / trimming of the gears!
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...70/SI-6RX0A-005-ENG_v1_m56577569830707675.pdf

But I've wondered what if you were replace the standard 11t jockey wheels supplied with the rear RD with 10t jockey wheels, would they still work ok and would that free up the extra space required to run the elusive 28t cassette? Maybe someone out there has tried it??


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Oct 2012)

Carbon said:


> But I've wondered what if you were replace the standard 11t jockey wheels supplied with the rear RD with 10t jockey wheels, would they still work ok and would that free up the extra space required to run the elusive 28t cassette? Maybe someone out there has tried it??


 
Great suggestion..... I know I have 10t Jockey wheels and a 28t cassette in my box of tricks..... You definitely have given me food for thought


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## GrasB (3 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> ...It is also easier to modify than Ui2 due to the Ui2's CANbus system which makes things a little more challenging (but not impossible, more on this later)...


Which would be easier to modify in terms of custom cable runs?


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Oct 2012)

GrasB said:


> Which would be easier to modify in terms of custom cable runs?


 
There is not to much difference to be honest, the wiring of Ui2 is slightly smaller in diameter and the connections and junction boxes are better, but if you have the removal tools for the connections you should be fine with either. If you are looking at doing anything non-standard then Di2 is most certainly the easiest loom to work with.


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## Carbon (3 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Great suggestion..... I know I have 10t Jockey wheels and a 28t cassette in my box of tricks..... You definitely have given me food for thought


 
If you get round to trying that let me know how you get on, I could do with the extra tooth for those big hills. Cheers


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## GrasB (4 Oct 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> There is not to much difference to be honest, the wiring of Ui2 is slightly smaller in diameter and the connections and junction boxes are better, but if you have the removal tools for the connections you should be fine with either. If you are looking at doing anything non-standard then Di2 is most certainly the easiest loom to work with.


The Di/Ui deal breaker for me right now is the cable lengths on the standard loom are just completely wrong.


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Oct 2012)

GrasB said:


> The Di/Ui deal breaker for me right now is the cable lengths on the standard loom are just completely wrong.


 
Then my choice would be Di2 as its easier to build custom looms for and vastly cheaper than for Ui2. Would you appreciate some advice on the best way to do a custom Di2 loom? (you need to be able to solder) -- I can do a write up, if necessary

I run a custom loom myself and can power exposure lights from the same battery source as the Di2... Im also looking at adding a heater element (researching at the moment) under the bar tape to make riding in the winter more bearable. (I don't want to MTFU)


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## Daniel P (23 Oct 2012)

Hi gang - 

Can anyone speak to the compatibility between Ultegra Ui2 and the new Dura Ace Di2? I'd love my next bike to start out with Ui2, and then upgrade over time to Di2. I've heard that you can just swap parts back and forth between the two, but with one being 10 speed and the other 11, I can't imagine that it's that simple. Anyone know?


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## Mista Preston (24 Oct 2012)

I am currently trying to avoid buying Di2 for my new build.......this thread aint helping 
















(Cuts up credit card)











Nice thread


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Oct 2012)

Daniel P said:


> Hi gang -
> 
> Can anyone speak to the compatibility between Ultegra Ui2 and the new Dura Ace Di2? I'd love my next bike to start out with Ui2, and then upgrade over time to Di2. I've heard that you can just swap parts back and forth between the two, but with one being 10 speed and the other 11, I can't imagine that it's that simple. Anyone know?


 
When 10 speed Dura-Ace was released its cables were multi core with 8mm cables this was changed for Ui2 which uses two core wires and smaller connectors.... the 11 speed Dura-Ace Di2 uses the same wiring as the 10 speed Ui2 as such Dura-Ace Di2 9070 11 speed components such as satellite shifters and official seat post battery, standard shifters will work on all existing 10 speed Ui2 systems.
Remember upgrading to 11 speed Di2 will require you to change your wheels as well unless your bike comes with wheels which take an 11 speed cassette.

Upgrading Ui2 to Di2 is not financially viable, with 11 speed even less so, you would be better saving up and selling your Ui2 and replacing it with a complete kit.
I had an 11 speed kit in my hands recently with a view to using it on my new build, in the end the limitations of the new system made me decide again on 10 speed Dura-Ace di2 which remains the knock out product imho 

So the answer is a long winded yes you can


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Oct 2012)

*10 Speed Dura Ace Di2 full wiring diagram - use full when making custom shifters *






*Examples of DIY custom shift buttons*
*



*

*



*
*



*


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Oct 2012)

*Stealthy custom Di2 shift buttons. (not suitable for Ui2 or 11spd Di2)*
http://benmanson.com/review/di2/di2buttons.htm

*Another nicely documented custom shift button hack*
http://www.endurancenation.us/blog/bike/how-i-hacked-into-the-di2-on-my-p5-to-make-it-better/


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Oct 2012)

*CONNECTOR PLUGS :- 10spd Di2 on the left and Ui2 and 11spd Di2 on the right*

*



*


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## Mr Haematocrit (25 Oct 2012)

*Cool stealth Di2 installation by English Cycles*
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/11/10/sick-custom-hidden-di2-road-bike-from-english-cycles/


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## Mista Preston (25 Oct 2012)

Anyone got any favourable groupset prices from around the tinternet?


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## Mr Haematocrit (25 Oct 2012)

My own preference is to find crashed bits on ebay and reset them, alternatively sending them back to Shimano for repair usually works out well.
I have equally had success in purchasing complete bikes breaking them and selling the bits I do not want, this can work out cost effective.
Currently it seems LBS stores are finding people only want the 11speed while 2012 bikes with Di2 still retain high value, you can sometimes get them to break the bike as they can move the discounted frame and wheels easier than the entire bike. I have had bargains in this manner.

Other bargain options are to buy the mechs and make your own loom, battery and shifters which can be upgraded as more money becomes available.


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## grumpyoldgit (19 Nov 2012)

I treated myselfIs there anyone doing an aftermarket conversion to the internal battery?Would look so much better.


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## Mr Haematocrit (19 Nov 2012)

Is the Roubaix Ui2 (ultegra) or Di2 (dura) and is it 10 speed or 11?
Looks to be ultegra 10 speed is that correct?


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## grumpyoldgit (19 Nov 2012)

Di2 10 speed.


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## Mr Haematocrit (19 Nov 2012)

You can approach the seat post battery in a number of ways.
There are after market battery products available which are listed in this thread a little earlier or you can do a DIY option, the Di2 battery is 7.4v Lithium Ion battery and you can replace this using many options, some people use nicad cells packs available from radio control model stockists.​Alternatively you can run a custom battery pack. You can see the battery for my Venge in my album.​I fit seat post conversions to my own bikes and for other people. I am working on a new battery setup for my Tarmac which is similar to the Roubaix seat post. I would be willing to share details with you if your interested, I won't be building the battery pack till the new year though.​


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## grumpyoldgit (20 Nov 2012)

I would be very interested in that,thanks.Me & electrickery dont mix too well


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## GrasB (21 Nov 2012)

V for Vengedetta, have you seen anyone who's managed to graft a triple chainring into a Di system? I'd really like to use Di on a recumbent but I simply can't get the gearing range required with a double chainring setup.


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Nov 2012)

GrasB said:


> V for Vengedetta, have you seen anyone who's managed to graft a triple chainring into a Di system? I'd really like to use Di on a recumbent but I simply can't get the gearing range required with a double chainring setup.


 
I have not seen one myself or am aware of anyone who has a working system with a triple.
 However K-Edge with their conversion have modified a setup for mountain bikes, calling it Ki2 -- they adapted the derailleur by custom designing a new, longer pulley arm. Something such as this may get you the throw required to clear a triple.... I have no evidence that this is the case, its just a theory.​You may be better in all reality looking at something such as diyshift.com and making a bespoke solution. Diyshift basically uses radio control model servos on standard components to do the shifting.​


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## ziggys101 (21 Nov 2012)

grumpyoldgit said:


> Di2 10 speed.


 
Grumpy are you sure it looks like Ultegra to me not Dura


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## grumpyoldgit (21 Nov 2012)

ziggys101 said:


> Grumpy are you sure it looks like Ultegra to me not Dura


Not an expert on these,but when it says Dura Ace on the levers,front & rear derailleurs,my guess is that it is Dura Ace.


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## ziggys101 (22 Nov 2012)

Ok just looked too big :-) my bad


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## grumpyoldgit (22 Nov 2012)

I have never seen the two side by side,so I couldnt tell.


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## grumpyoldgit (22 Nov 2012)

Matter of interest,Icarus seem to have ceased trading quite a while back,last year for certain.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Nov 2012)

grumpyoldgit said:


> Matter of interest,Icarus seem to have ceased trading quite a while back,last year for certain.


 
OOoh I'm going to have to put my prices up, if I have a monopoly


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## grumpyoldgit (24 Nov 2012)

Go to jail,do not pass GO


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Feb 2013)

I continue to run the optional sprint shifters on my Venge and I have also equipped my Tarmac with the climbing shifter which you can see in the image below, It serves a purpose if you ride up top a lot of the time.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Feb 2013)

Started to build some more seatpost battery packs which are improvements over previous versions with better quality wiring as standard, I'm also able to offer a number of different battery capacity options and still retain in bike charging for 10 speed Dura-Ace Di2
Also available now is 10 speed ultegra seatpost battery conversions, although you have to take the seat post out to charge it... Any questions PM me


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## ziggys101 (16 Feb 2013)

V do you have a standard way of configuring the handlebar cable setup I'm finding the rear brake cable is getting caught on the control box but cant seem to work out a better way of organising the cables and control box.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Feb 2013)

I do have standard way of doing this Ziggy, are you running dura or ultegra? And what bike it is... can you confirm when sitting on the bike what side your rear brake is?


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## ziggys101 (16 Feb 2013)

I have Ultegra on a Canyon Aeroad and the rear brake is on the left, entry into the frame for the rear brake and control cables are also on the left shown on attached photo


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Feb 2013)

I connect the junction box to the front brake cable and connect the loom clip to the other side of the front brake cable






You can see the junction box attached on my Tarmac, with the loom clip not attached yet


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Feb 2013)

The method shown above is the one suggested by Shimano, any other option such as attaching to the stem or rear brake cable makes the control panel to hard to view for testing imho


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Feb 2013)

If you would like me to make suggestions on your routing Ziggy, take a pic of the front of your bike around the Di2 area and stem and I would be happy to give you my thoughts


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## ziggys101 (16 Feb 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> If you would like me to make suggestions on your routing Ziggy, take a pic of the front of your bike around the Di2 area and stem and I would be happy to give you my thoughts


Thanks I'll take some pics after tomorrows ride :-)


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## ziggys101 (17 Feb 2013)

All sorted now from looking at your picture I realised what had gone wrong and managed to sort it. Just after Christmas I had a bike fit and as part of that I had my stem lowered this inturn had made the front brake cable to bow too much and this was fowling the other cables. I just shortened the cable outer and everything now moves freely. Its amazing how some things are so simple that you miss until you see it from a different perspective (your setup).

Thanks for your help.


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Feb 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> Thanks for your help.


 
Glad you got it all sorted


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## ziggys101 (24 Feb 2013)

Right I know I am about to open myself to ridicule but it's worth it if I learn a valuable lesson and it helps someone else. After months of telling my fellow Sunday riders who ask about what happens if the battery on your Di2 runs out that only a fool would ever be in that position. You guessed it today I was that fool, even though I knew last week it needed charging I forgot and then 10 miles from home was wondering why my front mech was no longer working. I can now confirm from experience that when the battery is very low the front mech stops shifting but the rear still works and I managed to get home on the fastest section of the ride by spinning furiously as I was limited on the small ring.

I wont do it again


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## ianrauk (24 Feb 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> Right I know I am about to open myself to ridicule but it's worth it if I learn a valuable lesson and it helps someone else. After months of telling my fellow Sunday riders who ask about what happens if the battery on your Di2 runs out that only a fool would ever be in that position. You guessed it today I was that fool, even though I knew last week it needed charging I forgot and then 10 miles from home was wondering why my front mech was no longer working. I can now confirm from experience that when the battery is very low the front mech stops shifting but the rear still works and I managed to get home on the fastest section of the ride by spinning furiously as I was limited on the small ring.
> 
> I wont do it again


 

OOOPS


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## redcard (24 Feb 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> Right I know I am about to open myself to ridicule but it's worth it if I learn a valuable lesson and it helps someone else. After months of telling my fellow Sunday riders who ask about what happens if the battery on your Di2 runs out that only a fool would ever be in that position. You guessed it today I was that fool, even though I knew last week it needed charging I forgot and then 10 miles from home was wondering why my front mech was no longer working. I can now confirm from experience that when the battery is very low the front mech stops shifting but the rear still works and I managed to get home on the fastest section of the ride by spinning furiously as I was limited on the small ring.
> 
> I wont do it again



Can't you just keep going on the same charge and let us know how long the rear mech lasts?


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## ziggys101 (24 Feb 2013)

redcard said:


> Can't you just keep going on the same charge and let us know how long the rear mech lasts?


Don't laugh but it did cross my mind but I came to my senses it's now fully charged and back on the bike.


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Feb 2013)

Never ever had a battery go flat on me, but I have failed to connect a battery properly which resulted in the shame of pushing my bike stuck is a high gear up a big hill in front of various people who remind me of the moment at every opportunity.


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## ianrauk (24 Feb 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Never ever had a battery go flat on me, but I have failed to connect a battery properly which resulted in the shame o*f pushing my bike stuck is a high gear up a big hill in front of various people who remind me of the moment at every opportunity.*


 
INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mark st1 (24 Feb 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Never ever had a battery go flat on me, but I have failed to connect a battery properly which resulted in the shame of pushing my bike stuck is a high gear up a big hill in front of various people who remind me of the moment at every opportunity.


 
All the gear no idea 

*edit im probably going to pay for that cheap shot


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## Mr Haematocrit (24 Feb 2013)

mark st1 said:


> All the gear no idea


 
All the gear, none of them working


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## mark st1 (24 Feb 2013)

At least you can video them now


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Mar 2013)

This is the latest Di2 seat post battery conversion on my Specialized tarmac. You can see the wiring exit the frame and the bottom of the battery exiting the seat post.
It features in bike charging, a larger capacity battery and two additional shifters. The bike now features modified mech's with some sram and some bespoke parts.



Here is a picture of the battery kit and charger.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Mar 2013)

I also have the ability to offer seat post battery conversions with in bike charging again for Di2 for those who want them and custom Di2 shifting and Di2 mtb conversions.


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## themosquitoking (30 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> I also have the ability to offer seat post battery conversions with in bike charging again for Di2 for those who want them and custom Di2 shifting and Di2 mtb conversions.


Approximately how much to upgrade a bike with mechanical gears to a full on electric jobby?


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Mar 2013)

Is it a road bike or MTB?


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## themosquitoking (30 Mar 2013)

Road bike.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Mar 2013)

your looking at around £900 if you shop wisely, for 10 speed ultegra. A little over the grand for 10 speed Dura-Ace and big big money for 11 Speed


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## RWright (31 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> your looking at around £900 if you shop wisely, for 10 speed ultegra. A little over the grand for 10 speed Dura-Ace and big big money for 11 Speed


 
for the ultegra, that does not include brakes and crankset does it?


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## Mr Haematocrit (31 Mar 2013)

RWright said:


> for the ultegra, that does not include brakes and crankset does it?


 
That's correct in general your unlikely to get brakes and crank set for that kind of money. One of the more cost effective ways to get the full kit is to find someone who wants a specific frame set and buy an entire bike and split it. I have done this a couple of times myself and you can get some great deals on bikes equipped with 10 speed Dura-Ace Di2 as everyone in general wants the new 11 speed these days so these bikes are sitting in the stores.


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## themosquitoking (31 Mar 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> your looking at around £900 if you shop wisely, for 10 speed ultegra. A little over the grand for 10 speed Dura-Ace and big big money for 11 Speed


 
Maybe i won't bother with it just yet then, cheers though.


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## simon.r (2 Apr 2013)

I've just started looking into this, with a view to getting a Ui2 equipped bike at some point in the next few months, but I'm confused by the internal / external issue. is it as simple as internal Ui2 fitting any frame that is designed to run internal gear cables, or is it more complicated than that?

Specifically I'm looking at a Planet X RT58 frame - will this take internal Ui2?


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## grumpyoldgit (2 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta is your man,he will be able to tell you either way.He just did mine,& it cleans it up no end.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Apr 2013)

simon.r said:


> I've just started looking into this, with a view to getting a Ui2 equipped bike at some point in the next few months, but I'm confused by the internal / external issue. is it as simple as internal Ui2 fitting any frame that is designed to run internal gear cables, or is it more complicated than that?
> 
> Specifically I'm looking at a Planet X RT58 frame - will this take internal Ui2?


 
The RT58 frame was not manufactured as a 'Di2 Specific' Frame. You can however enlarge the holes used for the internal cabling and run Di2 internally if you really wish to, this however invalidates warrenty. 
I also have a contact who repairs carbon frames who will modify frames to my or your requirements and this is a better option, but equally more expensive.

Ultimately on a raw carbon bike such as the RT58 an external wiring kit would barely be visible. You can then do a small hole at the back of the seatpost to feed the wiring in should you want to hide the battery with a seatpost conversion.


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## simon.r (3 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> You can however enlarge the holes used for the internal cabling and run Di2 internally if you really wish to, this however invalidates warrenty.


 
Thanks for that. I assume from what you say that the wiring is a larger diameter than a gear outer cable?


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Apr 2013)

simon.r said:


> Thanks for that. I assume from what you say that the wiring is a larger diameter than a gear outer cable?


 
The issue is not caused so much by the wiring itself, but by the connector plugs which are a larger diameter.


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Apr 2013)

These are the latest batter developments im doing, the first one is a 700mah battery designed for fitment to areo seatposts such as those which feature on the Venge.



The second battery option is a 750mah battery which is ideal for bikes fitted witha traditional round seat post, if you can fit a 'AA' battery up your seat post with a little to spare round the side this battery will fit. So far I have fitted this bartery to a Tarmac, Roubaix, Dogma without issue.



The standard Di2 battery is 500mah as such these are useful upgrades in terms of capacity, you also get a reduction in weight, lose the fugly battery on the frame and in bike charging

I will be doing a step by step shortly showing how to make your own battery, and charger kit but you do so at your own risk. If you get it wrong you can damage your Di2, if you don't wish to do that I am always happy to help.....Keep a look out for that how to coming soon


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## Dave Young (9 Apr 2013)

Hi there.
Does anyone know if it's possible to run the 4-core 10spd tt brake levers/shifters into the 11spd loom? I know some modding would need to be done connector-wise. But would all 4 inner cores need to be used? are they all wired into both buttons, or are one or more wires defunct?............or do i need to send my shifters back and ponder my next move?


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Apr 2013)

If the TT shifters you have are R671 then they are compatible with 10 or 11 speed groupsets and are compatible with the etube system used by the latest shimano Di2 offerings.
If you have different shifters and let me know the part number I might be able to advise further


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## Dave Young (9 Apr 2013)

Yeah, i have the R671 shifters. They should plug directly into the ew90 junction box, which i already have. The problem arises from having the st7971 brake levers, and trying to make them work with the junction box. I'm thinking the easiest way would be to splice them into the R671 shifters before they plug into the junction box, but i'm not sure whether i can just use 2 of the 4 cores from the st7971 shifters, or whether they need all 4 cores (for earth etc.).


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## Mr Haematocrit (11 Apr 2013)

You can not use the st7971 shifters designed for 10 speed Dura-Ace Di2 on the 11 speed Di2. The 11 speed Dura-Ace Di2 has more in common with Ultegra than 10 speed Dura-Ace. Ultegra and 11 speed Dura-Ace uses etube and provides the signal for the shifter down the power line, this is why it only features two wires.10 speed Dura-Ace Di2 has a separate power and signal which makes them incompatible.
This is why Replacing the battery on 10 speed Di2 is not exceptionally difficult as you only need to refer to the wiring diagram which features in this thread (and understand it), Undertaking a custom battery for Ultegra or 11 speed Di2 is vastly more complicated and simply replacing the battery does not work.

10 Speed Dura-Ace has no intelligence what so ever, it has no awareness of the components in the system which is what makes it so hackable, as long as you can send a signal and power the device you can connect it to the system. 10 Speed Ultegra and 11 Speed Dura-Ace have awareness, it functions a little like a computer network in the sense that each component has awareness of the others, it is this which makes it less hackable. The fact the protocol dictates that the signal and power line is shared ensure that you can only replace items with parts which have this capability. Standard electrical switches in general do not comply with the demands.

The course of action you need to take (_if you really need to do this_) is to buy some 11 speed Dura-Ace shifters, break them open remove the circuit board and mechanicals and then break open the st7971 and replace the appropriate parts.  This is not cost effective as you are breaking open two sets of shifters and if you make a mistake, its expensive way to learn what you did wrong.

Splicing wires from 10 speed Dura-Ace and introducing them into 11 speed Dura-Ace or Ultegra, is a sure fire way to put a smile on the face of those with the diagnostic equipment such as myself, who charge reasonable sums of money to tell you what you have sent up in smoke or damaged. It will not end well.

My advice would be to not mess around or hack 11 speed Dura-Ace unless you know what your doing, or am willing to accept that the learning curve can be expensive. I would personally advise sending the shifters back and buy the ST-9071 components.


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## Dave Young (11 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta. Thanks for such a great reply. Looks like the st7971 shifters are going back!

Thanks again for saving me a fair bit of money in damaged components, and a lot of head-scratching and swearing!!


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## Andrew_P (12 Apr 2013)

V4V as the resident expert on all things electronic and Specialized could I seek your opinion?

I am really torn between a Roubaix & a Tarmac, not really seeking your opinion on that but more to do with the frames!! In Expert models they are 4k with Ui2, but I have pretty decent Wheels and Saddle & Bars on my Roubaix so I have been considering buying an S-Works Frameset and buying a Ui2 Groupset which I reckon would cost slightly less combined than the Expert model bike. 

The main question is are the S-Works 2013 models suitable for fully hidden battery mounting? How about the 2012 S-Works Framesets? Much difference between an Expert frame and S-Works?

I am sure you have mentioned to me before about extended Demo bike hire, but cannot find the thread, was it Sigma that did this?


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## Mr Haematocrit (12 Apr 2013)

All specialized concept stores can get the demo/test bikes from specialized, you leave your card deails so they can get the money if you run off, you pay £25 for the pleasure which most will give you back if you buy a bike.
If I was in your position, I woud go with the S-Works frame as they are stiffer and lighter than the standard frame, the layup process is different. Another thing which would make me select S-Works if in a position to do so is that specialized themselves treat sworks bikes differently. Recently specialized had a recall on the forks of certain bikes. Normal bikes with the issue had the forks repaired and modified to address the issue, while sworks bikes got new forks.
MistaPreston from this forum has a Roubaix and S-works Tarmac so it might be worth talking to him about his own experiences long term.
The 2013 bikes most certainly can take hidden battery, depending upon the thickness of the seatpost your using.. basically you need to be able to get AA batterys in the seat tube with a little air around it.
Ui2 however is not the easiest to do batterys for so if your not looking to do it yourself, you will be charged a fair bit for it by anyone who makes kits.


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## Andrew_P (12 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> seat tube with a little air around it.
> Ui2 however is not the easiest to do batterys for so if your not looking to do it yourself, you will be charged a fair bit for it by anyone who makes kits.


Silly question but how do you recharge the system with the batteries in the seatpost?


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## Mr Haematocrit (12 Apr 2013)

It depends upon how the seatpost battery is implimented. Some require you to remove the seat post.
My seat post battery conversions have in bike charging. It charges through the rear derailuer.

I have attached a pic of the components I use, the long cable connects the battery to the junction box down by the BB, the plug in the middle permits you to remove the seatpost without removing the battery placement. The charger has a plug for the derailuer. The green thing is the one of the battery options I use, these change depending upon the bike and requirement




There are quite a few people around who make and sell kits, but equally you can make your own if your handy wih a soldering iron. Im always happy to advise if asked.


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## Andrew_P (12 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> It depends upon how the seatpost battery is implimented. Some require you to remove the seat post.
> My seat post battery conversions have in bike charging. It charges through the rear derailuer.
> 
> I have attached a pic of the components I use, the long cable connects the battery to the junction box down by the BB, the plug in the middle permits you to remove the seatpost without removing the battery placement. The charger has a plug for the derailuer. The green thing is the one of the battery options I use, these change depending upon the bike and requirement
> ...


On the 2013 Specialized bikes with electronic Groups they have hidden the battery, do they stick it in the seatpost? Also I have seen a few adverts for Di2 Ultegra, I always assumed Di2 was Dura Ace?


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## Mr Haematocrit (12 Apr 2013)

Di2 is what Shimano brand Ultegra and Dura-Ace product, within the enthusiast community to clarify what system you are talking about Ultegra is generally refered to as Ui2, and Dura-Ace as Di2 and Di211 for the 11 speed.
Shimano sell an after market seatpost battery for Di211 but im not aware that Specialized are using that, all the bikes I have seen personally have had the external battery on the bottle cage mount, but the most recent pictures on the specialized web page noticably show this missing. So perhaps they have started doing this, or moved the battery elsewhere.
The bike looks better for it though imho.

Having had my hands on all the systems my personal favorite still remains Dura-Ace Di2 10 speed


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## grantxdavis (15 Apr 2013)

Hi, just looking through your posts, good work.

Just a quick question, is it possible to splice into a ISMEW79A-E wiring kit without the use of sti levers? Basically I want to set up my TT bike with Di2 but cannot find a ISMEW79A-I front wiring kit, so I am thinking of using the E harness to power the shifters in the aero extensions and then somehow splice some custom shift buttons that I can mount on my base bar.
Thanks


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## Mr Haematocrit (15 Apr 2013)

What Di2 are you going to be running 10 speed Ultegra, 10 speed Dura-Ace, 11 speed Dura-Ace


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## redcard (15 Apr 2013)

V, any idea when Ultegra di2 will be updated, and what we could expect from the next version?


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## grantxdavis (15 Apr 2013)

Sorry, I should have mentioned that,
I'm looking at 7970 DA


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## Mr Haematocrit (15 Apr 2013)

redcard said:


> V, any idea when Ultegra di2 will be updated, and what we could expect from the next version?


 
I've not heard anything about next gen Ultegra release dates or specification at this time, but I have my name down for it when it finally gets here. Im hoping its a evolution of the latest Dura-Ace as was the case for the 10 speed models.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

grantxdavis said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned that,
> I'm looking at 7970 DA


 
The 10 speed 7970 Dura-Ace is the best and most hackable Di2 imho... Although you can splice the loom its not my prefered option unless it can not be avoided. I generally buy looms and cut them up for the connectors required for modifications.
If I was appoaching this I would modify the front of it by the display to have multiple plugs, and then build your custom buttons and shifter solution as plug in components, its a more effective way to work imho as if you splice and solder and have problems addressing them is a nightmare.. make the system modular.
If your Di2 hacking you can never have to many extra plugs, it starts off with custom shifters, then a seatpost battery and then...  buy a complete loom to tear apart, you will not regret it imho

If you want help with it message me a drawing or photo of component placement desired and I will do a parts list for the way I would undertake it


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## grantxdavis (16 Apr 2013)

Thanks V,
I haven't yet purchased parts, I am still looking into what I can do with the bits an pieces I can find. I am shopping around for the best prices. 
A permanent connector based system would be ideal, but how exactly would the modified plugs plug into the front wiring harness?
And then on the other hand I don't mind splicing into the front wiring harness, if I do mess it up they are not too expensive. I am an electrician by trade so fancy myself wiring things-famous last words!
I was mainly concerned with if it would actually work. I assume that a second switch spliced into the correct cable before the junction would just send the same signal to the junction then to the RD- telling it to shoot, regardless of which switch actually sent the signal. Is that correct logic?


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## grantxdavis (16 Apr 2013)

*shift


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

Your logic is most certainly correct and this thread has a wiring diagram earlier on which is worth a review. The way I approach things such as this is to make a little 'Y' shape connector.. in a sense three plugs joined, so you would plug one into the main loom and the other two used to plug in the two sets of shifters you wish to use. (like a multi-plug) The advantage of doing it this way imho is that should you ever need to move the system from one bike to another or remove it for maintenance then you only have to modify the 'Y' connector.
From my experience splicing it can impact you in ways you do not think, such as if you change your stem or bars, you may not have the wiring available to remount the shifters as you desire. When this happens you have to rejoin everything. Im not a fan of putting hot soldering irons near my carbon frame so like being able to remove the 'Y' shape and extend that a little if needed (it's just safer for me)
Im not an electrician so I hope my soldering skill set is not of the standard of yours, so you may feel more comfortable modifying the loom itself and the possibility of having to this when its installed on the bike.
When I get home tonight I will let you know the part number of what I buy as this gives a vast number of plugs and permits a great deal of flexibility for other things you may wish to do at a later date such as hidden battery's, power for lights etc..... The possibility's for someone with your skill set is pretty extensive imho


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## grantxdavis (16 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> The possibility's for someone with your skill set is pretty extensive imho


 
Don't give me a big head haha
I said that only to show that im not afraid to solder.
Yes the Y plug does sound like the best option, but i am having trouble imagining it. Your help is greatly appreciated.


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## marty5P (16 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> What Di2 are you going to be running 10 speed Ultegra, 10 speed Dura-Ace, 11 speed Dura-Ace


 
Hi There, A few months ago I went to go for a ride and my Ultegra Di2 was flat. It had not been long since last charge. Over the next few weeks I found the battery would be flat after 3.5 hours after a full nights charge. I took it to the bike shop and they ran the diagnostics and did a series of disconnections to isolate the problem. They identified that the left brake lever must have had a short and replaced it. I got the bike back after 2 weeks and the battery drained overnight from full to zero without riding at all. Its now back at the shop but everyone is scratching their heads!

Has anyone come across this? We have tried numerous batteries in the unit and they all drain.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

I have never ever heard of a shifter having an electrical short and still functioning, this is a symptom of the problem rather than the actual issue itself.
Imho going by what you have stated I would think that the loom itself is the problem. I would think the bike has a internal loom would this be correct? - can you provide any information about the bike (make/model - Carbon/Ally frame), Di2 installation and the last time you rode the bike without problems. (what was the weather like, distance approximately etc)


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## marty5P (16 Apr 2013)

It's a Bianchi Sempre carbon frame with internal cabling. I've only had problems on two rides. More times not actually getting out he door as is dead.

Rid one - fine day, 3.5 Hours into the ride the power goes. I was only 1 km from home so didn't worry too much.
Ride two - started dry, 1 hour into ride it rained heavy. Power went off but kept riding with bunch in reasonable gear. Power came back 10 minutes later. Still raining but not as heavy. Power stayed on till end of ride, approx 3 hours.

Can't think of anything else strange.


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## dodgy (16 Apr 2013)

Saw these same symptoms on a thread on BikeRadar, the poster ended up replacing the battery holder, his LBS figured out that's where the drain was happening.


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## Andrew_P (16 Apr 2013)

I have seen Ultegra Di2 Groupsets discount to a tad over 1k, are they good value?


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## marty5P (16 Apr 2013)

dodgy said:


> Saw these same symptoms on a thread on BikeRadar, the poster ended up replacing the battery holder, his LBS figured out that's where the drain was happening.



Did he say if that fixed the problem?


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

I would think the issue is your loom, common areas for this are around the junction box near the BB as some people force the wiring in this area which damages the junction box or plugs.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

LOCO said:


> I have seen Ultegra Di2 Groupsets discount to a tad over 1k, are they good value?


 
They are most certainly reasonable value imho, but DuraAce 10 speed is closely priced these days as everyone wants the 11 so I would also look at that


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## dodgy (16 Apr 2013)

marty5P said:


> Did he say if that fixed the problem?


 
Yes I think so, probably worth doing a search on there, in the meantime I'll also search, might find it quicker than you.


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## dodgy (16 Apr 2013)

Found it http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12913018


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

grantxdavis said:


> Don't give me a big head haha
> I said that only to show that im not afraid to solder.
> Yes the Y plug does sound like the best option, but i am having trouble imagining it. Your help is greatly appreciated.


 
OK confession time, Im not a graphic artist so my photoshop skills suck.. This is the 'y' connector. I do not have any laying around so have had to create an image of one... In effect it is a single plug split two ways as this permits you to use two different shifters without having to splice the main loom or the shifters (hope it makes sense) click the picture to make it bigger



For all my modifications I buy the EW-7975 loom and cut it up for the plugs to do battery conversions, in bike charging, and additional shifting options or 'Y' connectors. I not a fan of cutting the loom on a bike your using as if you ever want to sell your Di2 people get worried about the quality of the work. It is always advisable to be able to return it to standard imho


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## marty5P (16 Apr 2013)

dodgy said:


> Found it http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12913018


Thanks heaps, I'll chat with the shop today and attempt to resolve. I'll post back when loom and holder are checked.


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## grantxdavis (16 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> OK confession time, Im not a graphic artist so my photoshop skills suck.. This is the 'y' connector. I do not have any laying around so have had to create an image of one... In effect it is a single plug split two ways as this permits you to use two different shifters without having to splice the main loom or the shifters (hope it makes sense) click the picture to make it bigger
> View attachment 22077
> 
> For all my modifications I buy the EW-7975 loom and cut it up for the plugs to do battery conversions, in bike charging, and additional shifting options or 'Y' connectors. I not a fan of cutting the loom on a bike your using as if you ever want to sell your Di2 people get worried about the quality of the work. It is always advisable to be able to return it to standard imho



Makes sense. Thanks for the pic.
Are the plugs on the harness male or female? Cause I haven't bought mine yet I haven't actually had a good look yet.
Buying two internal looms will definitely make the job 100% neat but is there a more cost effective way of doing it? Like buying the extension wires? They come as a set, so that would be 2xmale, 2xfemale. Question is though, so they have the right connectors on them?
Will the plugs from a SW7971 fot into the plugs on a SM-EW79A-E or will I need to buy a seperate piece/cable for these plugs?
Obviously buying a SM-EW79A-I would make it a hell of a lot easier, I just cannot seam to find anywhere that is stocking them.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2013)

To be honest im unable to advise for certain what plugs you require, as ive not used the shifting your going to use myself.
The reasons why I personally buy the loom kits is that they have all the connectors the system uses and a bottle cage battery mount which you can sell on ebay and get some money back. The loom kit is also readily available unlike other options available. It's not the cheapest solution but its what I would select myself.
The connections from my front junction/display box is a female plug which connects to the rear loom and two male connectors for the front shifting.
So if you were going to do the 'Y' piece you would need one female connector which plugs into the male connector coming from the front junction/display box and two male connecters which will give you the ability to fit an extra set of shifters.

If your local to London I would be happy to come and give you a hand.
If you specifically want SM-EW79A-I then you would need to visit a tri store such as Sigma Sports in Hampton Wick who would be able to get it on special order. The tri components for 10 speed Di2 are not widely available with many being special order jobs


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## grantxdavis (17 Apr 2013)

Unfortunately I from Australia, though I do appreciate the offer. A few of the TT front looms have popped up on eBay so I'll just have to be patient I think. Thanks for the help!


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## marty5P (17 Apr 2013)

marty5P said:


> Thanks heaps, I'll chat with the shop today and attempt to resolve. I'll post back when loom and holder are checked.


LBS confirmed that the holder has been replaced already so that's ruled out as the issue. Upgrading the software tonight and see what happens - asked them to check the loom and they said they have checked the main areas. Frustration continues.....


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## ianwoodi (17 Apr 2013)

hi
i am having a problem with the chain making a noise when on large front chain set and on large rear cassett and when i pedal backwards the chain comes off the front is there adjustment i can make


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Apr 2013)

Do you get the noize when you pedal forward? is the chain hitting the mech to make the noize?
what kind of noize is it?


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## marty5P (18 Apr 2013)

marty5P said:


> LBS confirmed that the holder has been replaced already so that's ruled out as the issue. Upgrading the software tonight and see what happens - asked them to check the loom and they said they have checked the main areas. Frustration continues.....


No joy. LBS has stripped the entire system from the bike and sent it to Shimano for testing.


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## Mr Haematocrit (18 Apr 2013)

marty5P said:


> No joy. LBS has stripped the entire system from the bike and sent it to Shimano for testing.


 
Please do let us all know the outcome and what Shimano says, my bet is on the junction box by the BB being the issue or a loom part by the BB


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## ianwoodi (20 Apr 2013)

My chain on my di2 keeps coming off it happens when i am in largest chainset and in largest gear on cassett it will come off if i pedal backwards and some times drops when i am changing from big to small chain set is it the way i am riding it or is there a fault


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Apr 2013)

Ultegrea or Dura-Ace?
Does it have a full ultegra/dura-ace chainset?


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## ianwoodi (20 Apr 2013)

hi it has sram 50/34 chainset with a 25-12 cassett


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Apr 2013)

Di2 imho never works as slick with other chainring/casettes as it does shimano chainring/casette.
Did you just fit and forget, or set the shifting up following the process in the Di2 manual?


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## GrasB (20 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Di2 imho never works as slick with other chainring/casettes as it does shimano chainring/casette.
> Did you just fit and forget, or set the shifting up following the process in the Di2 manual?


Item of note Shimano & SRAM (along with most of the other Shimano compatible component manufactures) use different chain lines, not massively different, about a 1/2 a chanring's width but different enough that it gets noticed by mech when swapping between components.


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## ianwoodi (20 Apr 2013)

Its all been set up with manual all gearing works fine fast and smooth its just the chain drops every so often it could be my riding went up a hill this morning around 10% hit the hill in large front ring in big gear on cassett and changed it down to the smaller front ring and it fell off am i expecting to much


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Apr 2013)

I do not expect to see chain drops on Di2 and the typical times I have seen them the setups have not been setup as instructed in the manual, or have non shimano cassettes and chain rings, which is why that was one of the first things I asked  .
As a bit of a weight weenie, I have tried a number of billet cassettes and found they impacted shifting negatively im now running a shimano cassette again.
On Shimano cassettes I can shift down and up while on power, it seems that people with sram cassettes and other brands need to back off and not put a load on the pedals to shift in an effective manner at times. Although you can 'touch' the shifter on Di2 with a non shimano cassette you get better success pressing the shifter and holding it for a second or two... fast shifts cause chain throws.

Ultimately I would advise moving to a full Shimano setup


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## GrasB (20 Apr 2013)

I've got a 53t 105 chainring & 53t SRAM chainring on my desk right now. The biggest thing you notice is that the SRAM chainrings are flat where as the 105 is noticeably dished. This difference is likely to have a significant effect on the way the chain moves between chainrings. On the SRAM rings the chain effectively free-falls from the top chainring to the bottom one. On the 105 it will ride over the dishing & be delivered to the bottom chainring. The detailing on the 105 & Rival front mechs is also different with the 105 having far less metal towards the front of the mech on the inside, suggesting it needs to have less control of the chain.

The reason I have the chainrings & mechs on my desk? Cause I wanted to know why the hell I can't get the 105 mech to work well without dumping the chain on downward chainring shifts on a regular basis. It's also interesting that I've tended to find that SRAM front mechs work much better with 3rd party chainrings, which are almost exclusively flat rings rather than dished.


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Apr 2013)

Great info GrasB thanks for sharing and helps me start to understand why different cassettes can effect the slickness of Di2 a great deal


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## GrasB (20 Apr 2013)

I've not looked into cassettes my self, as I run SRAM rear mechs which seem to just work with anything you throw at them as long as the indexing matches up. Also if you can put up with a 50grm weight penalty & use inline cable adjusters their MTB rear mechs are much nicer for cable routing

Shimano front mechs however tend to have a larger chainring range capacity. They just dump the chains more often using aftermarket chainrings. So you can do 34/58 but you'll drop the chain every 10 chainring swaps, where as with SRAM you get reliable shifting but have do 34/54.


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## ianwoodi (20 Apr 2013)

thanks great info


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## grantxdavis (22 Apr 2013)

Is there a link for the owners manual for DA 7970?


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Apr 2013)

grantxdavis said:


> Is there a link for the owners manual for DA 7970?


 
All manuals are available from the following URL :-
http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/index.jsp


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## Andrew_P (25 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Shimano sell an after market seatpost battery for Di211 but im not aware that Specialized are using that, all the bikes I have seen personally have had the external battery on the bottle cage mount, but the most recent pictures on the specialized web page noticably show this missing. So perhaps they have started doing this, or moved the battery elsewhere.
> The bike looks better for it though imho.


I have been talking to a Specialized Elite retailer in the Southwest, I have been quoted £4250 for Ultegra Di2 + S-Works SL4 Roubaix Frame + S-works Stem & Bars. Will use my own Saddle and Wheels if I press the buy button. I would reckon I could get that below 4k if didn't use the 0% finance.

I asked about the battery mount and the reply was Specialized mount as per this picture, still looks a bit fugly. http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/products/bikes/road/1301910323759-cptcny2di34s_600.jpg 

How much is it going to be a pain getting the Ultegra in to the Seatpost? Could I mix and match Groupset between DA & Ultegra to ease that pain?


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## Mr Haematocrit (25 Apr 2013)

The Ultegra Di2 is built using the etube technology of the new 11 speed Dura-Ace Di2 as such some people are saying the the official 'optional' Shimano seat post battery also works with Ultegra however this is not something I can confirm myself and will not do so until I have seen it in the flesh with my own eyes.
You can get a few people making after-market battery's for Ulegra however the process for building them is more complex than that required for 10 speed Dura-Ace Di2 which is just a straight battery replacement and loom as such its reflected in the price.  Alternatively you could always build a battery pack yourself if handy with a soldering iron.
Frame batterys are fugly imho


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## Will2012 (29 Apr 2013)

Hi

I have Ui2 and the previous owner installed an internal rc car battery however soldered the pins (the ones that connect to the battery) on the Battery Mount. The BRM-1??? 

I removed the mount and wires and wired it directly in however it does not work and I assume that this is due to the Ui2 not recognizing the battery (from your post). Do I have to have the rc car battery wired to the battery mount or is there a trick so I can get rid of it?

Thanks


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## Will2012 (29 Apr 2013)

I have a bike that someone put an rc car battery inside the frame. Ui2. He wired the battery to the pins on the Ui2 battery mount. Is it possible to remove this mount and wire it directly or will the system not recognize it?






V for Vengedetta said:


> *Battery Modifications :*
> 
> *Background*
> When Di2 was first seen in the pro ranks it was pretty much used as Shimano intended, over time battery placement seemed to be a challenge with it regularly moving over various teams bike apparently seeking optimal placement. When specialized released the Venge areo bike battery placement seemed to become even more important as it impacted the aerodynamics of the bike. Team Highroad took the steps of placing the battery inside the seat post of the bike of Mark Cavendish, which is why the seat post battery conversion is commonly known as the Cav Conversion.
> ...


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## Mr Haematocrit (29 Apr 2013)

Will2012 said:


> I have a bike that someone put an rc car battery inside the frame. Ui2. He wired the battery to the pins on the Ui2 battery mount. Is it possible to remove this mount and wire it directly or will the system not recognize it?


 
The reason this was done is that the Ui2 system has awareness of components in the system as such you can not simply splice the system and introduce what you want from it like you can with Di2 10 speed, the mount contains a circuit which the battery requires to make the system aware its there. You can break the required bits out of the mount however if you damage it you obviously need a new mount, so people take this action as there is less risk associated with damaging components enough that they do not work.
I'm curious to know how charging the battery has been implemented in this solution for you and what is the mah of the battery.

So to answer your question, yes it is possible to remove the mount but its not simply a case of taking it out of the system, do this and the system will not work. Battery conversions are available which do not require this mount.

Why do you wish to remove the mount, does it not fit in your seatpost or frame, or do you have some concern about the quality of the conversion?


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## stevenshand (30 Apr 2013)

Hi,

I'm looking for a solution to splitting a cable using some kind of connector. It's for an S&S coupled bike with internal Ui2 routing and I'd like to be able to break the bike apart and disconnect the cable that's running down the downtube. I may be able to position the JC41 box far enough up the downtube that I'd have access to it through the open end of the tube but probably not.

I'm assuming the Ui2 cables are co-axial cables (core and shield)? I can try just splitting the cable and using a standard male > female co-ax connector but I thought I'd ask to see if anyone had tried this sort of thing already.

Steven


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Apr 2013)

Ultegra Ui2 wiring features one ground wire and one wire for supply and communication. People who have put extensive effort into understanding Ui2 also say as the wiring is extended the signal strength deteriorates and effects the system performance and reliability
I personally have had no success worthy of note in building custom looms for Ui2 but would think that your best bet would be buying another loom and using this wiring and the correct connector plugs to achieve what you desire.... I'm not making any promises that this will work, it's just a educated guess.
But I don't think coax connectors would work too well


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## stevenshand (30 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Ultegra Ui2 wiring features one ground wire and one wire for supply and communication. People who have put extensive effort into understanding Ui2 also say as the wiring is extended the signal strength deteriorates and effects the system performance and reliability
> I personally have had no success worthy of note in building custom looms for Ui2 but would think that your best bet would be buying another loom and using this wiring and the correct connector plugs to achieve what you desire.... I'm not making any promises that this will work, it's just a educated guess.
> But I don't think coax connectors would work too well


Thanks for this. I don't mind buying more wiring components but I don't think there's anything available that does what I want. I basically want a standard e-tube cable but instead of a plug on each end, I'd like a plug on one end and a socket on the other.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Apr 2013)

If you buy a loom you would have available male and female connectors what do you mean by a socket?
This is an example loom but its dura-ace. The connection to the right is male and the connection to the left female. If you pulled out your junction box you would see a number of different connections


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## stevenshand (30 Apr 2013)

V for Vengedetta said:


> If you buy a loom you would have available male and female connectors what do you mean by a socket?
> This is an example loom but its dura-ace. The connection to the right is male and the connection to the left female. If you pulled out your junction box you would see a number of different connections
> 
> View attachment 22614


Ok, socket/plug is male/female but I don't believe there's a cable in the Ui2 loom that has female end is there?

Obviously, there's female ends in the junction box (JC41) and the front control unit as well as on the battery, and frone and rear mechs unless I've missed something, I don't see any female connector on any cables.

Not sure about DA.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Apr 2013)

I believe that the battery mount is male and the connector on the junction box for it is female (going by memory here) might be with unplugging them and checking. If you brought another loom kit you could use these and extend

The construction of the wiring used for Ui2 ultimately makes modification more complicated, I can't help but think it may be worth considering selling the ultegra and moving to 10 speed Dura-Ace Di2 if the budget permits this which will permit you to splice and dice the loom safely at will. The wiring diagram for 10 speed Di2 features earlier in this thread.
If by any chance the Ui2 signal wire and ground touch your likely to lose components which is why I would suggest using the original wires and plugs where necessary, but it does seem a larger proportion of Ui2 kit goes up in smoke during modification than Di2 in the enthusiast community


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## redcard (5 May 2013)

Can anyone give an idea how much it would cost to upgrade mechanical Ultegra 10 speed to Ui2 electronic? Parts only - not quite sure what i would need to buy, I guess it would be everything bar the chainset / cassette?


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 May 2013)

Your bang on the money, you would need to replace everything bar the chainset/cassette.
If you do your homework your actually in a very good position. Second hand Ultegra sells very well and if you shop around and use the exchange rates and do not in a rush you can get some very good prices on Ultegra Di2 components from the US and Europe. (Germany/France in particular)


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## redcard (5 May 2013)

So we're talking maybe £800-£900 to upgrade at current prices?


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 May 2013)

I would think your looking more towards £700-£800 and then you have to detract from that what you expect to get for your mechanical components should you decide to sell them.


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## Iceman Aus (15 May 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> i have thrown the place markers in, as I have quite a bit of info to provide and this will take me a little time ​​I will also attempt to assist with any questions people have along the way, if anyone else wants to chime in with the answers please do​


Hi I have the Di2 ten speed fitted with external cabling. Battery used to last for over a year, it was great. Got wet a few months back, dried the bike/system off and it still worked fine. Lately the battery has been draining over a few days. I heard that the system is supposed to go into sleep mode? I tried disconnecting the rear derailleur and not riding the bike and the battery seems to last longer. I have cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner and checked the wiring for kinks or pinches. all good. I have tried another battery thinking the battery could be faulty. Same thing.Any suggestions? Thanks for any constructive help/suggestions.


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## Mr Haematocrit (15 May 2013)

When you state you have Di2 Im assuming its Dura-Ace (_Rather than Ultegra which I refer to as Ui2 for the purpose of this thread_) the connectors for Dura-Ace Di2 10 speed are not waterproof as such susceptible to the elements with external wiring more so. If a connector is not pushed in correctly, the wiring damaged or damp or dirty you can get battery drain.. I would advise unplugging every connector in the system one by one and clean, dry and refit. (Inspect the wires as well, to ensure they have not been snagged or damaged) if this resolves your issue I would advise buying some heat shrink tubing from a model shop to make the connectors more resistant to water.
If this does not address your issue I would unplug one component at a time (while the bike is not in use), and see if the battery retains its charge as this will determine which component if any has issues.
Generally the symptoms you describe are cause by a poor connection in the system somewhere or a short.
Ultimately the fastest way to identify the problem is to hook it up to the diagnostic kit.


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## MadMrH (23 May 2013)

Hi, I have read all 9 pages, forgive me if I missed this info..........

Time Trial bike setup.

Is it possible to buy Di2 2x11 and force it to be 2x10 via PC update unit?

I would really like the lighter / smaller (newer) Di2 11s over Ui2

ALL my wheels are 10 speed, discs can't changed/modified to 11 speed.

Thank you for your time.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 May 2013)

You can't force it 11 speed Di2 to physically become 10 speed or behave like it, all attempts to do this I am aware of at this time are not issue free. There seems to be some work ongoing with reprogramming it using the e-tube diagnostic but its not at a state where it seems to work really well.


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## LucF (25 May 2013)

Hi,

I have modified the 7970 Di2 wiring on my Cervélo R3 to make it internal but with everything coming out of the BB back into the junction box, which although much better than the generic external setup with cables taped to the frame that my LBS had done, leaves me with a few things I don't like:
1. the battery is still external (hanging down on a chain stay),
2. a pile of wires under the BB,
3. heat shrink connection on all cables entering and exiting the frame,
4. not protected against shocks under BB or water.

I want to go the next step and put everything internal by:
1. finding an internal battery for the seat post (thinking of getting a battery from Di2diy like the one in this kit),
2. eliminating the junction box under the BB and joining wires together inside the seat tube without a Shimano junction,
3. eliminating the visible heat shrink by finding long enough Shimano cables going from the components to inside the frame.

*Questions:*
1. I need three 6-foot length cables (one each for the RD, FD and controls) with the proper connector at one end (i.e. straight for RD and controls and 90° for the FD). Does anybody know where I can find these?
2. Can anybody confirm that the junction box (Junction B with EW-7970 on it) only contains junctions and no circuitry, so that if I just join the wires as per Shimano's wiring diagram everything will work?

Thanks in advance,


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## grumpyoldgit (25 May 2013)

LucF said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have modified the 7970 Di2 wiring on my Cervélo R3 to make it internal but with everything coming out of the BB back into the junction box, which although much better than the generic external setup with cables taped to the frame that my LBS had done, leaves me with a few things I don't like:
> 1. the battery is still external (hanging down on a chain stay),
> ...


Mr Haematocrit does a neat seat post battery conversion,cleans the frame up nicely.


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 May 2013)

LucF said:


> *Questions:*
> 1. I need three 6-foot length cables (one each for the RD, FD and controls) with the proper connector at one end (i.e. straight for RD and controls and 90° for the FD). Does anybody know where I can find these?
> 2. Can anybody confirm that the junction box (Junction B with EW-7970 on it) only contains junctions and no circuitry, so that if I just join the wires as per Shimano's wiring diagram everything will work?


 
First of all, it sounds like you have actioned what you wish to achieve in a really odd way, I can replace the battery and make it internal with a plug and play conversion, no modification to the bikes loom is required at all.
if your loom is having the cables exit by the BB its looking for trouble and simply not required, I have fixed a number of Di2 conversions which did this and had a range of issues.
The battery you link to is one of the more standard common conversions in fact, I use this very battery myself on some of my conversions as it is a larger capacity than the standard battery, if you just want that you can get it from the following URL
http://www.batteryspace.com
Carbon is not a breathable material and you need the battery to be able to breathe, as such your seat post diameter and the expansion of the battery need to be taken into consideration when doing this.
You also need to consider how you will charge the bike battery when you have an internal battery, I charge through the rear derailleur however you need to be aware that not all chargers are capable of this, get it wrong and you melt the wiring inside the frame and then you have problems.
You will not find the cable lengths you desire you off the shelf will need to buy a complete loom or loom section with the required connections and take the components/connectors you desire from that.
I have spare looms which I cut up for my battery conversions, typically you need two connectors one for the battery and one for the charger. It is also advisable to put a connector half way up the seat although its not technically needed it makes removing the seat post easier.
If you want I can make you the cable lengths required, but being honest I'm not particularly cheap as unlike some I will not use low grade wiring and other things, if I would not be prepared to use it myself I would not pass it on to someone else. Likewise I'm not particularly quick if your in a rush look elsewhere as I like to test my work for a least a week.
I play with Di2 as its really interesting and fun, and to help people not because I'm making vast sums of money from it, the moment I cease to enjoy it I will stop.
Battery's I would typically use for an areo and normal seat post can be seen on page six of this thread.
I have no idea what is in the junction box itself as I have never had the need to bust one open to achieve what I want.. I suspect there is no circuit as you can replace this component with just wiring, but like I said I'm not 100% if you do please confirm this as I'm still learning about Di2 and would like to know.
The wiring diagram can be found earlier in this thread and should be reviewed when doing any modification.


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## LucF (26 May 2013)

Hi H,

Thanks for your reply. I proceeded as I did because I needed to fix the wiring and minimize down time and I didn't have an internal battery. It was also my first Di2 job and I wanted to keep regression efforts minimal in case of a major f up.

I'm not in any particular rush now. The bike is running in its present configuration, I'm in my brevet season and I don't want any more extended down time.

My goal is to have FD, RD and control cables leave the components, enter the carbon frame and never come out. So if I can get my hands on long enough cables I can have them come out at least 2 feet from the top of the seat tube to have room to work, join (solder and heat shrink) all connections as in the B junction box diagram and bridge (like you suggested) the battery wire to a seat post battery through a connector. I don't mind having to remove the seat post to charge the battery. My seat post is a 27.2 mm Thudbuster ST and an AA battery fits inside no problem.

As for the junction box, my guess (like yours) is that it contains no circuitry, so I don't foresee any particular problem in eliminating it.

So H, if I could get the following parts from you, it would be great:
1. Seat post battery with 6" wire ending with connector, plus fitting connector that I can install on the wire coming from my loom, plus means to hold battery in seat post if possible, plus charger and means to connect it to the battery, plus enough protection circuitry so that battery doesn't explode under my arse while riding nor while charging.
2. The 3 cable lengths as described in Question 1 of my 1st post (you say you can make these; I have no problem with you making them, as long as they look and perform like the Shimano ones, i.e. seamless connections, no heat shrink, waterproof, same diameter, 5 strains for control cable [or all], etc.).
3. Three grommets (had forgotten about those).

As for pricing, I'm pretty sure we can agree on something. I'm looking for quality and reliability first, pricing second.

You can reach me at lucdemontreal@yahoo.ca.

Regards,


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## Ian DIckens (26 May 2013)

Hi folks - just found this forum having almost gone insane with ui2 problems. My issues seem similar to martyp but any advice is welcome. 

I will try and keep this to the point!!

The bike is a Cube Agree equipped with ui2 and purchased new in Feb 2012. No real use between Feb - April 2012 except one sportive. Around 12 months ago, the system was completely dead. I tried a recharge but nothing.

Took it back to LBS (they did not have a diagnostics at this point) who by power of deduction told me I had a fault battery mount. They alluded I had got it "too wet" so I stumped up £90 for a replacement. I was just happy it was working.

The bike worked ok for the remainder of the year. In Feb 2013, I was away on a trg week. On day 5 the front mech did not shift smoothly a couple of times. I forgot about it as I finished the ride with no problem. Later that day I thought I would check the battery charge - it was on red so I removed it and recharged. Went back a few hrs later to put the battery back on - the system was still dead.

Another trip back to the shop (this time they had the diagnostics) and they pointed the fault to the battery. I was sold a replacement battery and I made my point that altough I accept the battery is consumable, I did not expect to be replacing with in effect less then a years use and probably less then 1500 miles.

I got back home - fitted the new battery and nothing there. I pressed the button on the junction box a few times and managed to kick it into life.

I did not use the bike very often until the last couple of weeks as I was trg for a race and decided to stick to my bike with "normal" gears as I had lost faith and confidence in the ui2.

When I went back to the cube, the battery seemed to die very quickly. I noticed it was flashing at 50% almost straight away and the next morning was dead. I had subsequently got another battery so I could swap them around.

The same process - each battery seems to charge OK taking the 90 odd minutes. I put the battery on and within around 24 hrs it has gone from full to half and very quickly to flat.

I took the bike to an alternative shop who have the diagnostics but they could not see anything obvious on the testing (firmware updated etc)

Yesterday morning I went for a quick spin - it changes fine but after just 15 miles the front mech stopped shifting. I checked and the battery indicator was in the red. Swapped to the other battery and fine. Rode home (7 miles predominately down hill so little in the way of gear change); Checked the battery and it was ok. Checked it again around 13 hrs later and flashing light. Checked this morning (23 hrs after fitting) and it was dead.

I am hacked off on various counts - one that the LBS have charged me for a new mount and battery (I have been advised by another shop that the warrenty of ui2 if within normal use is 3 years?) but more so that my bike at present is an expensive dust collector.

I am due to get it back to the shop asap but it would be nice to get some opinions from here as to what may be wrong or if there are any similar issues. All wires etc etc seem fine and there are no obvious nicks on the wiring system;

From my experience, whatever the fault is is not going to show on the diagnostic software but I just want the bike to be fit for purpose. At present I am too nervous to go more then a hour from home.

Thanks in advance and apologies if this rambled on


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 May 2013)

LucF said:


> The 3 cable lengths as described in Question 1 of my 1st post (you say you can make these; I have no problem with you making them, as long as they look and perform like the Shimano ones, i.e. seamless connections, no heat shrink, waterproof, same diameter, 5 strains for control cable [or all], etc.).
> 3. Three grommets (had forgotten about those).



I would not be willing to make the cables under the terms you desire, they would not look like Shimano's or perform like the shimano ones.


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 May 2013)

Ian DIckens said:


> I am hacked off on various counts - one that the LBS have charged me for a new mount and battery (I have been advised by another shop that the warrenty of ui2 if within normal use is 3 years?) but more so that my bike at present is an expensive dust collector.
> 
> Thanks in advance and apologies if this rambled on


 

Damn Ian you have a right to be hacked off, you equally have my sympathy but this have no value to you unfortunately. As you have said the diagnostics have not discovered anything. You need to undertake a process of discounting components, when Ui2 goes into sleep mode and powers down however it seems like one of your components maybe a little restless.
I would inspect your loom closely and ensure that it does not have any damage or pinching. They often get pinching around the bars and stem. If you are unable to locate damage you will need to start discounting components and this is time consuming. Charge your battery and unplug a single component, if the battery still goes flat charge again and unplug another component till you get to the component with the short


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## LucF (27 May 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I would not be willing to make the cables under the terms you desire, they would not look like Shimano's or perform like the shimano ones.


 
What could you make then?


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 May 2013)

At no point do I believe that Shimano's wiring or connectors are waterproof as such, would not claim mine would be. Equally the longest cable you will find using a default Shimano wire will be the large bike loom kit, if you require Shimano grade wire, sizing and quality this would ultimately be your best bet. 
I use oxygen free copper wires which are slightly larger diameter than that which Shimano use and rated higher than the battery current, my own limit is defined by the connector and as long as the wiring is a smaller diameter than this it will go through any holes the connector needs to.
At this time I do not have any large lengths of wiring and only have bits of a loom left from previous work, as such I would need to cut the connectors of the loom, solder them to the required length wire and protect with heat shrink.


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## Billrush (27 May 2013)

Any suggestions for this problem? Ui2 on a used bike I just bought. Di2 worked great first 50 miles then RD stopped working. FD continued. LBS looked at it and said plug to right shifter wasn't fully seated. He seated properly and shifted great. Also upgraded firmware and enabled multi-shift. Sweet. Road 30 miles yesterday with no problem. Today the RD stopped working again at 10 miles out. Limped back home and rolled back the rubber hood to expose the cable entering the right shifter. This time I could see that the cable was not seated again. How is that possible? Looking at the plug I could see a thin piece of plastic around the plug was folded back in part. Perhaps that limited the plug from seating properly? I trimmed a little off, reseated the plug and we'll see what happens. Questions: 1. I wonder if the cable is just a bit too tight and vibrations cause it to come out? 2. I wonder if Shimano will give me a new junction box which would have a new cable plug which might hold better? 3. I have the remote rear shifter button on order. That will give me a backup means to shift. 

At least now I understand exactly the problem and should be able to re-seat the plug on the road until this is permanently solved. Suggestions or comments


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## grumpyoldgit (27 May 2013)

Shimano make 2 different tools for Dura Ace & Ultegra,if you dont use them you risk serious damage to the connectors.Sounds silly,but it is true.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-T...ltDomain_0&hash=item3a74c0a4cd#ht_2881wt_1083
This is one,the other is EW02.Without them you will not get a good connection.


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## Billrush (27 May 2013)

So, the TL EW-02 is on order. I wondered about that tool. I thought it was for disconnecting!


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## grumpyoldgit (28 May 2013)

Very important for connecting as well.


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## Mr Haematocrit (29 May 2013)

.Lithium batteries have just become more expensive as royal mail is no longer accepting them through the post so suppliers will be forced to use a couriour


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## Iceman Aus (31 May 2013)

Thanks for that. I have disconnected the RD and the battery seemed to last longer but still nowhere near the year as it previously had done. I have now disconnected the FR and will see what happens. Failing that I will do as you suggested with all connectors. Maybe I will purchase the diagnostic tool for the Dura Ace 10 speed and for the Ui2. I have one bike with Di2 10 speed one with Ui2 and one with the new 11speed Di2 so I think it would be a good idea to have the diagnostic tools myself. The LBS only have for the Ui2. Heat shrink is no problem as I use it at work often. Will let you know what it turns out to be as it will help others with the same problem.


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## grumpyoldgit (31 May 2013)

Another job for Mr Haematocrit,looks badly exposed there.


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## mark st1 (31 May 2013)

fugly !

Have you been buying MORE machinery  That chain looks like it has Red in it ?


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## grumpyoldgit (31 May 2013)

mark st1 said:


> fugly !
> 
> Have you been buying MORE machinery  That chain looks like it has Red in it ?


 
I couldn't help it,it must be the red in the chain wot done itI have made a deal with myself that I would sell at least four of the others,if I bought this


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## mark st1 (31 May 2013)

What is it then can we be treated to some proper pics.......... That chain would look good on my Red bike  lol


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## Mr Haematocrit (31 May 2013)

Loving those carbon cranks, less of a fan of that battery mounting position.
You would think that is a prime position to get, wet, mucky and impact damage.


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## grumpyoldgit (31 May 2013)

mark st1 said:


> What is it then can we be treated to some proper pics.......... That chain would look good on my Red bike  lol


 
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/sirrus-sl4.131946/ Its here.


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## Jaxxstatic (2 Jul 2013)

First post. Cheers to everyone.
Anyone ever had trouble getting their Ui2 out of "crash saver" or "protection function" mode? I can't seem to get mine out of it. I followed the Dealer's manual instructions, holding the RD function button for 5 or more seconds while turning the crank. It restored connectivity, shifting the RD all the way down then back up again, but functionality didn't come back after the light went off. Tried micro adjusting, too, but no go.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Jul 2013)

During a crash the rear derailleur motor disengages to reduce damage, you need to reset this via the button on the junction box A


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## Jaxxstatic (3 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> During a crash the rear derailleur motor disengages to reduce damage, you need to reset this via the button on the junction box A


 
Ah, so I mispoke. When I said I held the "RD function button," I meant I held the button on junction box A for 5 seconds or more. RD functionality still nonexistent after it scrolled through all the gears in the back. Only thing I can think of is the connection to the shifter itself, but the connection inside the hood is good. Next spot to check would be inside the bottom bracket? I'd rather not, if you know what I mean.
I rode the bike to my LBS (shifting only in the front...), and they didn't know what was up with it. They also checked connections and adjusted the derailleur by hand, just as I did, but no go. For them to check it with the diagnostic box thingy, I'll have to bring it in again tomorrow. I'd rather just fix it myself, if possible.


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Jul 2013)

You can test the front shifter, by swapping the plug to the other shifter which is working. I personally would not think the issue was wit the shifter. I would think your issue is one of two things.
1) The rear mech has pulled the plug loose on the junction box by the BB - not as uncommon as you would think.
2) The rear mech has internal damage, although it goes into protection mode when dropped or impacted this does not always work. Which is easy to discount, all the shop needs to do is replace it with one that works to try (I would think this is the likely issue)

Out of curiosity why did the mech need to be reset, did the bike fall, or did you have an off?


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## grumpyoldgit (4 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Loving those carbon cranks, less of a fan of that battery mounting position.
> You would think that is a prime position to get, wet, mucky and impact damage.


Concept have lent me my bike back for a while,so I am ready for the conversion when you are.


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Jul 2013)

Ohh damn forgot all about it, sorry I will order the parts tonight


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## grumpyoldgit (4 Jul 2013)

That's OK,no panic


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## Jaxxstatic (5 Jul 2013)

Bike went into protection mode over some severe bumps on bike trail (roots under cement). 
I ended up fixing it. It ended up being the connection inside the right shifter hood. The plug on that side was slightly ovalized for some reason, so it would look and feel like it was completely seated in the connection, but in actuality it wasn't. Got it firmly in there and put some tape in the space between to make sure it would stay.
Thanks for the suggestions, Mr. Haematocrit! 
On a side note, LBS was kind of a let-down in terms of Di2 help. Luckily, Ultegra Di2 is really easy to work with on your own. I think I'm going to put down the cash for the diagnostic box.


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## Adim_x (17 Jul 2013)

Hello, I am having some problems with my Ultegra DI2. Recently rode in rain, then washed bike (no power wash), now my DI2 only works for a couple minutes at a time. I have to pull the battery and put back in, then I only get a couple minutes of the system working before it shuts off. I have checked all connection and battery is reading over 8V on my meter.. I don't know whats up. I can pull the cable to the battery holder and plug back in and the system will not work, but if I pull battery and plug back in, system will work for a few minutes. I am awaiting my PCE1 to arrive in the mail to check it out. I think either the battery is screwed up or something in the battery mount. Does anyone have any ideas?


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Jul 2013)

What makes it stop working, is the battery still showing charge? - hold the shifter down and check the control box light and confirm (is it green, amber, red, no light)


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## Adim_x (17 Jul 2013)

The battery is definitely charged, I put my voltmeter on it, its like 8.1v. I lose all power after the battery is plugged in for a minute or two. The control box will not respond, its like the system is not getting any power. I have tried hooking up the battery mount with each cable on the bike, and I get some power for a minute or two. I have hooked the battery straight to the control box, without going through junction, and I will get a green light when plug in and when i check charge, but after a minute or two whole system is dead again. It is weird...


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Jul 2013)

Sounds like a short caused by dampness, I would start removing all connectors and ensuring they are dry and not earthing out, then your looking at inspecting the cables for damage.
In reality the diagnostic kit is the easiest way to determine where the issue lays in this case.


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## Joe M (22 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Damn Ian you have a right to be hacked off, you equally have my sympathy but this have no value to you unfortunately. As you have said the diagnostics have not discovered anything. You need to undertake a process of discounting components, when Ui2 goes into sleep mode and powers down however it seems like one of your components maybe a little restless.
> I would inspect your loom closely and ensure that it does not have any damage or pinching. They often get pinching around the bars and stem. If you are unable to locate damage you will need to start discounting components and this is time consuming. Charge your battery and unplug a single component, if the battery still goes flat charge again and unplug another component till you get to the component with the short


 
Did you ever figure out the problem. I have the same now, battery full (green light) for ~24 hours and then it empties in ~6 hours. My LBS is at a loss as to what the problem is, they have already changed the battery, battery holder, reset the SW (all based on Shimano recommendations), but still the same issue. It all suddenly happened after a service (new brake cable and a small fix in the BB). any help appreciated........


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Jul 2013)

We unfortunately did not get a report back of what the issue was in this case, I have seen a Ui2 exhibit these symptoms myself and the issue was a damaged/not working loom section.
It's not uncommon though and seems exclusive to Ultegra rather than DuraAce having the same issue.

Are you certain you have not damaged the junction box or loom near the BB what fix did you have done in it?
Have you connected it to the diagnostic kit to see if that reports anything.


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## Joe M (22 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> We unfortunately did not get a report back of what the issue was in this case, I have seen a Ui2 exhibit these symptoms myself and the issue was a damaged/not working loom section.
> It's not uncommon though and seems exclusive to Ultegra rather than DuraAce having the same issue.
> 
> Are you certain you have not damaged the junction box or loom near the BB what fix did you have done in it?
> Have you connected it to the diagnostic kit to see if that reports anything.



Shimano diagnostic kit reports no problems. On the BB, changed a bearing as it seized up. 
Before this, Ui2 worked perfectly, charged once after 3000km, now at 5000km and battery drains all the time since this repair. I think they are linked but LBS not convinced.


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Jul 2013)

Joe M said:


> Shimano diagnostic kit reports no problems. On the BB, changed a bearing as it seized up.
> Before this, Ui2 worked perfectly, charged once after 3000km, now at 5000km and battery drains all the time since this repair. I think they are linked but LBS not convinced.


 

I would guess they are linked, I think the junction box or loom by the BB has been damaged.
It's pretty feasible to do on some bikes, I've replaced a couple of junction boxes on bikes which have damaged.


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## Joe M (23 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I would guess they are linked, I think the junction box or loom by the BB has been damaged.
> It's pretty feasible to do on some bikes, I've replaced a couple of junction boxes on bikes which have damaged.



Thank you. Let me go talk with the LBS. they have been good so far, everything has been under guarantee. Will feedback how i get on.


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## Joe M (25 Jul 2013)

Just to let you know the LBS changed all the shimano parts for free and sent them back to Shimano and they will let me know what Shimano say the fault was. Happy with the service in the end but debugging the Ui2 is a hassle, a bit like a computer


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## Mr Haematocrit (25 Jul 2013)

Joe M said:


> Just to let you know the LBS changed all the shimano parts for free and sent them back to Shimano and they will let me know what Shimano say the fault was. Happy with the service in the end but debugging the Ui2 is a hassle, a bit like a computer


 

Yea Shimano made the system unnecessarily complicated with Ui2 the standard 10 speed dura Di2 is a far simpler beast as the wiring is four core and uses a separate lie for the power, earth and signal... you can splice and dice this and test the lines easily with Ui2 the power and signal use the same line which makes troubleshooting a complete nightmare.


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## PhilipL (27 Jul 2013)

Hi I'm really interested in buying the UDi2 (10 speed) as it is such great value for money at the moment, with mavic ksyrium elite 10/11 speed wheels. Can you please confirm whether I could upgrade this groupset to 11 speed in the future by updating the firmware in the UDi2 (10 speed) groupset and adding a new 11 speed cassette and chain.
Thanks


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Jul 2013)

The 10 speed Ui2 is based around the same e-tube technology that the 11 speed Di2 and 11 speed Ui2 is developed with. These are intended to be firmwear upgradable and I believe these will find themselves onto a MTB Di2/Ui2 group set at some point.
There is no official noise coming from Shimano about upgrading to 11 speed from 10 speed Ui2 but there is unofficial firmwear which permits this, you have to also change the rear mech's though for the 11 speed version.

I personally would approach them as different systems and if you want 11 speed sell on your 10 speed and buy the real deal, anything less and your looking for problem imho


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## PhilipL (28 Jul 2013)

Really appreciate the advice. Thank you


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## Joe M (9 Aug 2013)

Joe M said:


> Just to let you know the LBS changed all the shimano parts for free and sent them back to Shimano and they will let me know what Shimano say the fault was. Happy with the service in the end but debugging the Ui2 is a hassle, a bit like a computer


Shimano came back to the shop and the problem was the control unit around the BB, they replaced it and it is now working. Thanks for all the help. The shop has been great as well, they have left me with there new Ui2 and they have kept the old one returned by Shimano.


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Aug 2013)

Joe M said:


> Shimano came back to the shop and the problem was the control unit around the BB, they replaced it and it is now working. Thanks for all the help. The shop has been great as well, they have left me with there new Ui2 and they have kept the old one returned by Shimano.


 
Thanks for coming back and letting us know what the issue was  it adds to everyone's knowledge, I did also guess/suggest that the junction box (_which is what Shimano seem to be calling the control unit as there is only one box down there_) could be the issue. They seem to be a little easy to damage IMHO. A few people now seem to be removing them when doing BB or wrapping them in bubble wrap.
It's great that the shop have been good though, thumbs up for them.... Glad its all sorted




Mr Haematocrit said:


> I would guess they are linked, I think junction box or loom by the BB has been damaged.
> It's pretty feasible to do on some bikes, I've replaced a couple of junction boxes on bikes which have damaged.


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## jowwy (11 Aug 2013)

can you get di2 with external wiring and in a triple crankset???


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## Mr Haematocrit (11 Aug 2013)

jowwy said:


> can you get di2 with external wiring and in a triple crankset???


 

You can get Di2 with external wiring, it has never been 'officially' offered in a triple configuration but it can and does work with triples. DuraAce is better in such configuration.


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## jowwy (11 Aug 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> You can get Di2 with external wiring, it has never been 'officially' offered in a triple configuration but it can and does work with triples. DuraAce is better in such configuration.


 
mmmmm could be next years upgrade to the sabbath sorted right there.....what would the approx cost be???


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## Mr Haematocrit (12 Aug 2013)

jowwy said:


> mmmmm could be next years upgrade to the sabbath sorted right there.....what would the approx cost be???


 
You can get it 'done' for around £900 - £1000 for 10 speed however to do it properly you need to budget an extra £150.
A lot depends upon how much you want to shop around you can get cheaper components from Europe, and a complete kit can be quite cost effective depending upon source.


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## Peteaud (26 Aug 2013)

If i want to change the 12-25 cassette to a 11-28 (Ultegra) what is the best chain to use.

Do you have to use the Shimano chain?

Does the unit have to be plugged in to the diagnostic stuff to alter the cassette size?

Ultegra system, 10 speed


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Aug 2013)

You can just change the cassette as you would on a normal bike, you don't need to use the diagnostics for this. You don't have to use the Shimano chain however the shifting quality deteriorates when a different chain is used from my experience. Keep it all Ultegra/Dura-Ace and mickle it regularly and you won't go far wrong IMHO.


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## Peteaud (26 Aug 2013)

A couple more questions from a Di2 newbie.

Do chain quick links have any effect on the system?

If leaving the bike for a while is it best to remove the battery.

The little button on the junction box / battery meter... leave it well alone i presume ?


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Aug 2013)

I run quick links without any issue, so its not a problem.
No need to remove the battery, only thing of note is if taking the bike out in cold/damp/wet conditions its worth spraying the battery (when its on the bike) with a water dispersant such as WD40 and permitting to dry as it creates a seal between the battery and mount.
Yea the button you don't need unless you drop the bike and the mech goes into shock mode to protect itself and you need to reset
You can tell how much charge you have in the battery by holding the shifter down for a couple of seconds and should not need to charge regular... I charge once a year in general


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## Peteaud (26 Aug 2013)

Many thanks, much appreciated.


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## Iceman Aus (4 Sep 2013)

Continuing on with the battery running flat problem on my Dura Ace 10 speed Di2.. Disconnected the FR battery lasts ..great!!! checked all connections -no problem there. checked cables - no twists or pinches. Cables are external so easy to check. Is there a way of "rebooting" the system? Maybe that would do the trick? Looks like the FR is not going into sleep mode when not in use. Sorry it has taken so long to repost but these things take time to try out and I have pushed it to one side in disgust. Thanks for any suggestions/help


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Sep 2013)

You can't 'reboot' the system as it has no software that requires booting in the first place on Dura-Ace 10 Speed. The most you can do is reset the mech's when they have gone into shock protection mode after impact such as being dropped, if the mech's are functioning correctly then this is not necessary.
If you have identified a component which is causing battery drain then this component needs to go back to Shimano under RMA


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## Kulcha (9 Sep 2013)

Hi, I found this forum from searching online on an issue on my di2.
- RD cant go into micro adjustment mode
- i'm on 7970
- followed exactly on Shimano's doc, page 6 (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...70/SI-6RX0A-005-ENG_v1_m56577569830707675.pdf)
- i'd tried taking off the battery, fully charged, reconnect RD and FD

With all the above, I could only got a quick flash red LED on the junction box but couldnt go into micro adjustment mode.

Your kind help will be grately appreciated.

Many thanks!


----------



## hegyestomi (10 Sep 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Cost


Hi,
could you give me an indication of cost to move the battery from external to internal: DI2 DA 10 speed (2012). I'm not afraid to solder/cut/muck about things but not so sure about my brand new bike.
Happy to collaborate/follow instruction but would like to non intrusive/reversible solution please.
Also london based (se14)
Thanks
Tamas


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (10 Sep 2013)

you have pm


----------



## hegyestomi (10 Sep 2013)

Thanks, I replied. 
I'll probably attempt to do it myself but I'll need some help. 
Great job what you are doing here, very impressed!


----------



## Phil Ryan (19 Sep 2013)

Hi, Does anyone have any experience with the Dura Ace Di2 Rear Derailleur misalignment?

Reason for asking was I was in France for the Etape du Tour in July and prior to starting my bike was knocked over and the rear derailleur took a bit of a knock. Enough to leave a few marks. All seemed okay and the ride went without incident until the last climb when the chain started jumping whilst in the top rear cog which resulted in the chain failing. Repaired but failed three more times but only when in the top cog. (11-25). It looked as if the chain was being bent and the links popped out!

Was in Canada in August training and during climbing felt the chain clicking and started to have the same problems as in France. Local bike shop had a look and they said there was some misalignment but I find it very hard to believe that this caused such problems.

Anybody have any similar problems?

One further note I had the satellite shifter fitted prior to France and it was excellent on the climbs. The change was perfect.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (19 Sep 2013)

I've seen Rear Derailleur misalignment, its not common in general.
Have you reset the Rear Derailleur after the impact?


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## Phil Ryan (20 Sep 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I've seen Rear Derailleur misalignment, its not common in general.
> Have you reset the Rear Derailleur after the impact?


I did yes. The guys in Canada carried out numerous checks as well including a torque test and said all was good. My latest rides have been UK which hasn't seen any further problems but lost a bit of confidence with the equipment.


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Sep 2013)

You really need to get a Di2 trained stockist to have a look at it if you think its misaligned as if this is the case the mech needs to be returned to Shimano for repair.
Out of curiosity is it running Dura-Ace cassette and chain? - It can jump on cheap cassettes without the Dura-Ace/Ultegra ramps or cassettes which exceed Shimano's recommendation for the group set (what's the cassette size)

I can have a look at it if your around London or want to bring it to me.


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## Phil Ryan (20 Sep 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> You really need to get a Di2 trained stockist to have a look at it if you think its misaligned as if this is the case the mech needs to be returned to Shimano for repair.
> Out of curiosity is it running Dura-Ace cassette and chain? - It can jump on cheap cassettes without the Dura-Ace/Ultegra ramps or cassettes which exceed Shimano's recommendation for the group set (what's the cassette size)
> 
> I can have a look at it if your around London or want to bring it to me.



Yeah all Dura-Ace but when the chain failed I changed to an alternate as I read that the Shimano chains had a history of failure. The guys in Canada advised me to change back as it would be a lot smoother ride. They actually put an Ultegra chain on. Not sure if there is much difference.

I shall look at trying to find Di2 trained but struggling here in Singapore. There's a possibility I may be in London in November so I might take you up on the offer. Cheers.

Cassette size is 12-25.


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Sep 2013)

I exclusively use Shimano chains for Dura-Ace.. I've tried a lot of the others and the slickness is just not there, I have not had any issue with chain failure.
The cassette is an OK size/ratio is it Dura-Ace or Ulegra or a different brand?


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## Teuchter (20 Sep 2013)

Hoping to avoid battery issues, is a wiring adapter available to allow me to power my Di2 shifters using one of these?


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Sep 2013)

Teuchter said:


> Hoping to avoid battery issues, is a wiring adapter available to allow me to power my Di2 shifters using one of these?



Really interesting idea, as long as its capable of providing 7.4 volts you would be fine IMHO.
Another way in which you could approach it would be to continously charge the battery with the dynamo.
There is not an adaptor but with all these things, you could easily make one.

I'm not sure what battery issues you are concerned about experiencing, the only issues I have experienced myself is due to not plugging the battery in correctly after removal/refitting


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## grumpyoldgit (21 Sep 2013)

Teuchter said:


> Hoping to avoid battery issues, is a wiring adapter available to allow me to power my Di2 shifters using one of these?


A spare battery would probably be far lighter,& certainly do less damage to your tyre than one of those.


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## Teuchter (21 Sep 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Really interesting idea, as long as its capable of providing 7.4 volts you would be fine IMHO.


So if I run two bottle dynamos, one either side of the rear tyre, I should be ok then? Would I have to wire them in parallel or series to achieve the required voltage?

As for weight, does anyone know of a producer of carbon fiber bodied dynamos?






(Before I go any further with this silliness... apologies to the serious readers of this thread. I'll remove my tongue from my cheek now and get back to my downtube friction shifters!)


----------



## azatlas (4 Oct 2013)

I have a new Ultegra Di2 with a 25T cassette (brand new bike) and would like to change it to a 28T. By the manual it states that two extra links would be needed in the chain. Would any resetting of the gears be needed if I just replaced the chain and cassette


----------



## Schuman (22 Oct 2013)

Phil Ryan said:


> Yeah all Dura-Ace but when the chain failed I changed to an alternate as I read that the Shimano chains had a history of failure. The guys in Canada advised me to change back as it would be a lot smoother ride. They actually put an Ultegra chain on. Not sure if there is much difference.
> 
> I shall look at trying to find Di2 trained but struggling here in Singapore. There's a possibility I may be in London in November so I might take you up on the offer. Cheers.
> 
> Cassette size is 12-25.



Hi Ryan ,

Do you have the bike with you in Singapore ?
The problem only occur after the crash ?
Can the rear der. shift from the smallest to the biggest ?
does the junction A light up red once you have the issue with the rear der ?

Do let me know ...


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## HLaB (22 Oct 2013)

BIt OT I heard at the weekend that the Campagnolo system is still campable of limited mechanical shifting when the battery is flat; I think if I had the money for electronic shifters I would lean towards such a system.


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Oct 2013)

azatlas said:


> I have a new Ultegra Di2 with a 25T cassette (brand new bike) and would like to change it to a 28T. By the manual it states that two extra links would be needed in the chain. Would any resetting of the gears be needed if I just replaced the chain and cassette



No you do not have to reset the gears, its also not actually required to swap the chain. I swap backwards and forwards between a 25T and 28T without swapping the chain and it shifts fine


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Oct 2013)

HLaB said:


> BIt OT I heard at the weekend that the Campagnolo system is still campable of limited mechanical shifting when the battery is flat; I think if I had the money for electronic shifters I would lean towards such a system.



It does indeed have limited mechanical shifting. I had Camp EPS it on one of my old bikes, it is without doubt the smoothest, fastest electronic shifting imho but the system is a complete nightmare to troubleshoot and modify.
Mine developed ghost shifting (shifting with no user input at all) and the entire setup was exchanged, to this date I have no idea what was wrong with it.


----------



## Archie_tect (22 Oct 2013)

Sorry to come to this so late, but I'm curious to hear, from people who've changed to using Di2 or Si2. Is the benefit of the electronic shift such a user-friendly improvement that you wouldn't go back to traditional gear changing again?


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Oct 2013)

Archie_tect said:


> Sorry to come to this so late, but I'm curious to hear, from people who've changed to using Di2 or Si2. Is the benefit of the electronic shift such a user-friendly improvement that you wouldn't go back to traditional gear changing again?



I consider myself to be a major Di2 fanboy, I have the diagnostic tools for all versions and a number of bikes with it, including a MTB... Its an outstanding system imho
Im more of a fan though of the early Dura-Ace Di2 as you could cut and splice it as you wished to introduce new features, the latest versions are more controlled and modular, they require diagnostics tools and new methods to tweak. The reality is that modifying them is not so easy.

When selecting a group set for my new road bike I selected SRAM Red 22, 
when selecting a groupset for my new MTB I selected SRAM XX1

So although I am a massive fan of Di2, you have to be honest, it has some good points and some bad points as do all group sets.
The reality for me is that at this time SRAM simply offers more value for money, better performance and weight, not to mention its simply a more interesting groupset than Di2 at this time


----------



## Sterba (22 Oct 2013)

Could you just use the satellite shifters, without the brake integrated drop bar levers, if you wanted es on a flat bar bike?


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Oct 2013)

Sterba said:


> Could you just use the satellite shifters, without the brake integrated drop bar levers, if you wanted es on a flat bar bike?



Yes, that's not an issue in fact that's what I run on my mtb. It is also widely used by companies such as kedge with their Di2 MTB conversion.

http://www.ki2bike.com


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## Graham (10 Jan 2014)

Hello Di2 experts! I have just bought a Scott foil with 10 speed Di2 and a 53/39 crankset (no wheels). I'm doing the Cheshire Cat in March and want to fit a 12-30 Ultegra rear cassette to help me get up Mow Cop. Will it work? From what I've read, there seems to be a generally agreed limit of 28 teeth despite Shimano saying 27. Or could I do it but shifting might be a bit rougher? Presumably, if it works, it going to use the full range of movement in the cage so chain length will need to be pretty accurate.


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (11 Jan 2014)

There are people running 12-30 with Di2 these days. I personally don't like it and feel it impacts Di2 shift quality in a negative manner.


----------



## Peteaud (11 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> There are people running 12-30 with Di2 these days. I personally don't like it and feel it impacts Di2 shift quality in a negative manner.



Indeed there are 

Agreed it does not shift as well as the 11-25 but still shifts really slick.


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## Graham (11 Jan 2014)

Thanks very much both, thought that might be the case. Hopefully I won't need the 30 too often (although this is my first adult (39x53) chainset) so the shifting will be ok between the other sprockets. Seems I might have to turn the b screw round to make sure the upper jockey misses the 30T though (peteaud, did you have to do this?) Hopefully I will get a bit stronger so that I can run 12/27 or similar.Thanks, graham


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## Graham (11 Jan 2014)

Oh, and I found this about running a 30 if it's of any interest:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...tibility-water-bottle-code-ti-seatpost_199011


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## Peteaud (11 Jan 2014)

Graham said:


> Thanks very much both, thought that might be the case. Hopefully I won't need the 30 too often (although this is my first adult (39x53) chainset) so the shifting will be ok between the other sprockets. Seems I might have to turn the b screw round to make sure the upper jockey misses the 30T though (peteaud, did you have to do this?) Hopefully I will get a bit stronger so that I can run 12/27 or similar.Thanks, graham



B screw had about 1/2 turn from the 28 that was fitted. Shifting is as good. Chain length is critical imho and i used an Ultegra cassette and new Ultegra chain. My LBS had the bike in for a service and checked out the rear mech and shifting and all was fine. I am not the only one in these parts parts running the 30T as we have some silly hills round here.

WORD OF WARNING.

The most critical thing is the length of the hanger!!!!!, if it is short it wont work and you may wrech the rear mech.


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## Mr Haematocrit (11 Jan 2014)

The ramps on the teeth of the casettle which are very specific on the Ultegra and DuraAce Di2 casettes which help with shifting slsickness along with the chain. Swap any of these and you degrade shlifting quality. You can of course mix sections of the casette so its only non-dura/ultegra for specific parts. 
You can also buy a billit titanium copy of the dura-ace cassette with the correct ramps in any ratio's you want and these don't encounter degraded shift quality but cost around £200. Spin unobtainium cassettes are pretty good

The shift quality degrading is more noticable on Dura-Ace Di2 as the servos in the mechs are higher specification than Ultegra and faster. If you have upgraded the servos further or undertaken servo mods you are more suspectable to shift performance issues.

I also know people who run bigger than 30 on Di2 MTB conversions.


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## Peteaud (11 Jan 2014)

How much difference is there between the Ultegra and Dura Ace Cassettes?


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## Mr Haematocrit (11 Jan 2014)

Peteaud said:


> How much difference is there between the Ultegra and Dura Ace Cassettes?



The difference by large is weight, the ramps are the same. The Dura-Ace casette is part titanium and the Ultegra is not
You do find that the Dura-Ace seems to wear a little better so its performance is more consistent over a longer period of time.


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## Graham (11 Jan 2014)

Peteaud said:


> B screw had about 1/2 turn from the 28 that was fitted. Shifting is as good. Chain length is critical imho and i used an Ultegra cassette and new Ultegra chain. My LBS had the bike in for a service and checked out the rear mech and shifting and all was fine. I am not the only one in these parts parts running the 30T as we have some silly hills round here.
> 
> WORD OF WARNING.
> 
> The most critical thing is the length of the hanger!!!!!, if it is short it wont work and you may wrech the rear mech.



Looking at the techdoc, the 7970 (10 speed that I have) only comes in SS so maybe the 30 won't work from what you're saying?

My intention is to run Ultegra cassettes with 10 speed Ultegra chains, unless I can get hold of cheap dura ace chains. Dura ace cassettes are about £100 more than Ultegra.


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## Peteaud (11 Jan 2014)

Graham said:


> Looking at the techdoc, the 7970 (10 speed that I have) only comes in SS so maybe the 30 won't work from what you're saying?
> 
> My intention is to run Ultegra cassettes with 10 speed Ultegra chains, unless I can get hold of cheap dura ace chains. Dura ace cassettes are about £100 more than Ultegra.



Shimano tech docs are not worth the paper they are written on, to a point.

My tiagra has been running a 30T for years, shimano say 28T max.

My DI2 28max has 30T

It might work, it might not.


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## Graham (11 Jan 2014)

Peteaud said:


> Shimano tech docs are not worth the paper they are written on, to a point.
> 
> My tiagra has been running a 30T for years, shimano say 28T max.
> 
> ...



Suppose so. I've got 30T on my 2008 tiagra and never gave it a moments thought! I guess shelling out for dura ace makes you think a bit harder!

Screw it, I will give it a whirl with the bike on the stand and see how it copes.


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## Peteaud (11 Jan 2014)

Graham said:


> Suppose so. I've got 30T on my 2008 tiagra and never gave it a moments thought! I guess shelling out for dura ace makes you think a bit harder!
> 
> Screw it, I will give it a whirl with the bike on the stand and see how it copes.



If it has 28 at the moment and runs with plenty of give left on the rear mech, a 30T wont be that much different as the outside diameter is not much more. When i did mine i used an Ultegra cassette and new chain and had it on a stand and rotated the cranks very very carefully.

2008 Tiagra says 28T Max so yours is doing what Shimano says it wont!!!


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## Mr Haematocrit (11 Jan 2014)

I know someone with a Di2 MTB conversion running a 36 without to much issue by running a longer gear mech plate.
I tried to upgrade the servo's for them and it started to thow the chain more regularly.


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## chunkymonkey909 (18 Jan 2014)

Sorry if this has already been asked.
I have Ultegra Di2 and mechanical disc brakes on a road bike. What I would like to do is upgrade the mechanical discs to the new di2 hydraulic discs.
From what I have read I can upgrade the di2 STI levers to the hydraulic STI's and calipers but apparently the new STI's only have 1 port rather than 2 ports like I currently have. This is a problem as I have the climbing switch connected to one of them. Can I buy a 5 port junction box to make the new setup work or is that only compatible with Dura Ace di2?
Thanks

Martin


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## Sterba (4 Feb 2014)

Please tell me why you think the hydraulic discs will be better than the mechanical ones. I am particularly interested if part of the reason is that they take less effort to achive the same stopping force.


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## chunkymonkey909 (4 Feb 2014)

For me there are two attractions to hydraulic brakes - there is no steel cable which is prone to corrosion (especially as this is for my winter bike) and they also have a much lighter feel due to less friction ie no cable.


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## BikeLiker (5 Feb 2014)

Not sure how widely known this is, I couldn't find any technical reference, but Ui2 can be upgraded & managed without the SM PC E1 interface if you have the BCR2 internal battery charger. More details here.
Using this system I have upgraded all my firmware and programmed multi-shifting so it seems to have all the functionality of the stand alone interface.


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## albion (22 Feb 2014)

Peteaud said:


> ...My LBS had the bike in for a service and checked out the rear mech and shifting and all was fine. I am not the only one in these parts parts running the 30T as we have some silly hills round here.
> WORD OF WARNING.
> 
> The most critical thing is the length of the hanger!!!!!, if it is short it wont work and you may wrech the rear mech.



I was giving my old steel bike a run today and a cyclist was carrying his bike into Wynyard County Park to phone a taxi.
His Di2 rear mech had crumpled.
I have no idea is it is the 30 scenario but thinking about it, it looked so when I offered to help, in vain.


----------



## Peteaud (22 Feb 2014)

albion said:


> I was giving my old steel bike a run today and a cyclist was carrying his bike into Wynyard County Park to phone a taxi.
> His Di2 rear mech had crumpled.
> I have no idea is it is the 30 scenario but thinking about it, it looked so when I offered to help, in vain.



Could be many things, ive run my 30 with no issues, the 28 standard and 30 diameters are not massively different.


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## albion (22 Feb 2014)

It was mangled and twisted at the lowest big cog rear gear but yes, many a reason.


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## azatlas (16 Mar 2014)

Planning to travel from Northern England to the Pyrenees in the summer to see the tour. My bike will be on my car roof bars....will the Di2 be ok !?....Any recommendations other than putting the kids up there and the bike in the car!


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Mar 2014)

Won't be a problem from my experience. All I do for added security is I put the Di2 into shock protection mode.


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## azatlas (17 Mar 2014)

_Hi thanks for the advice....I better read the manual...never even heard of 'shock protection Mode'..._


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Mar 2014)

During a crash the rear Di2 derailleur motor disengages to minimize damage. You can reset this to restore functionality.


----------



## gfusi (4 Apr 2014)

Kulcha said:


> Hi, I found this forum from searching online on an issue on my di2.
> - RD cant go into micro adjustment mode
> - i'm on 7970
> - followed exactly on Shimano's doc, page 6 (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...70/SI-6RX0A-005-ENG_v1_m56577569830707675.pdf)
> ...



I have the same problem.
You've solved the problem?
Can anyone give me a help?

Thanks
G.Luca


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Apr 2014)

gfusi said:


> I have the same problem.
> You've solved the problem?
> Can anyone give me a help?
> 
> ...



Have you gone through the crash protection reset process?


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## gfusi (5 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Have you gone through the crash protection reset process?



What is the correct procedure?
I tried to hold down the button for many second but nothing has changed.


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Apr 2014)

These systems have a protection circuit built into them so that when the derailleur gets forced in a fall no damage is done to the system. To reset the system hold the button down on the LED control box for five seconds until the red light flashes.

If that changes nothing unplug the shifters and mechs and plug them back in again. Its a connection issue


----------



## gfusi (5 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> These systems have a protection circuit built into them so that when the derailleur gets forced in a fall no damage is done to the system. To reset the system hold the button down on the LED control box for five seconds until the red light flashes.
> 
> If that changes nothing unplug the shifters and mechs and plug them back in again. Its a connection issue



I've already done this test but nothing has changed.
I think the front derailleur is in protection mode but I can not unlock it.
I already tried to replace all cable and battery cage except the Junction box.


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Apr 2014)

What happened prior to this issue? - was the bike in an accident, fall over, get soaked in the rain?


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## gfusi (5 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> What happened prior to this issue? - was the bike in an accident, fall over, get soaked in the rain?


The bike was stopped for 2 months during the winter in the house.
This is a strange thing, all gears work properly.
6 months ago the same thing happened to me, I dismounted and remounted the front derailleur and simultaneously work the fd adjustment and operation mode.
The problem is the same Kulcha, so I hope it is a known issue in Shimano.

Thanks
G.Luca


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Apr 2014)

Did you disconnect the battery when storing it?
Ive heard of issues such as this, but never experienced or seen them.

Get it to a shop which has the diagnostics kit imho


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## gfusi (10 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Did you disconnect the battery when storing it?
> Ive heard of issues such as this, but never experienced or seen them.
> 
> Get it to a shop which has the diagnostics kit imho



I tried to disconnect the battery for 48 hours but nothing has changed.
This morning I contacted Shimano and now i waiting for a response. 
Unfortunately no store in my area has a diagnostic kit.
G.Luca


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## gfusi (19 May 2014)

gfusi said:


> I tried to disconnect the battery for 48 hours but nothing has changed.
> This morning I contacted Shimano and now i waiting for a response.
> Unfortunately no store in my area has a diagnostic kit.
> G.Luca



I solved the problem.
The rear derailleur don't work correctly. I change it and now it's all ok.


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## Peteaud (19 May 2014)

What is the recommendation for storing, keep battery in or remove it?


----------



## Mr Haematocrit (20 May 2014)

I store it with personally. I'm not aware of reccomendations or best practices but can't say I have any issues doing so.


----------



## noddynorris (16 Jul 2014)

Hi there, 

I'm new to the forum, looking for some advice from Mr Haematocrit if possible or anybody else in the know. I have decked my TT bike out with 10 speed Dura Ace Di2 and have found that my from derailleur shifting has stopped working. I have the following symptoms:

Bar end shifters: Rear works fine, front does not shift, both give battery charge indication when held.
Brake mounted shifters: Rear works fine, front does not shift, both give battery charge indication when held.
Battery: Fully Charged.
Front Derailleur: Shifts only when in the extremes of the rear cassette to prevent chain rub.
Rear Derailleur: Works perfectly.

If anybody can help me with this, it would be really appreciated.

Mr Haematocrit, I am also looking to clean up my cable routing and get my hands on seat tube battery assembly if you could possibly help/ supply me with this.

Cheers

Matt


----------



## ianth (17 Sep 2014)

Hi, here is my story. I have UI2 internally routed with the junction box inside the frame at the bottom bracket.
After a minor crash, the left shifter (front mech) was bent inwards. The front mech did not respond at all until the cable under the hood was reseated.

Now it won't shift from small chain ring to large, it just doesn't get there when on the larger cogs of the cassette, or it throws the chain right off the outside and onto the crank arm when on the smaller cogs of the cassette. Also, when on the big ring and shifting to the larger cogs at the back, instead of just trimming the front mech, it actually shifts from the large chainring to the small.
No amount of adjusting the H and L screws helps, cables removed and reseated, front mech removed and re-installed, makes any difference.

My best guess at present is that the front mech itself got damaged so I have ordered a replacement. Not very confident that it will fix it though?


----------



## themosquitoking (17 Sep 2014)

Mr H will be along in a minute with a whole diagnostic of your system. He's a font of knowledge.


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## ianrauk (17 Sep 2014)

themosquitoking said:


> Mr H will be along in a minute with a whole diagnostic of your system. He's a font of knowledge.




Doubt it. he hasn't visited the forum since March.


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Doubt it. he hasn't visited the forum since March.


Electrocuted?


----------



## Peteaud (17 Sep 2014)

probably no help, but you never know.

http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-UL0001-00-ENG.pdf


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## themosquitoking (17 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Electrocuted?


Any voltage is dangerous they teach you.


----------



## Cuchilo (17 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Doubt it. he hasn't visited the forum since March.


I was going to ask what happened to him but last time I asked about a member no one else liked them .


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## themosquitoking (17 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Doubt it. he hasn't visited the forum since March.


How much info do you have on us all? Can you access my laptop camera?


----------



## Cuchilo (17 Sep 2014)

themosquitoking said:


> How much info do you have on us all? Can you access my laptop camera?


I can , put some clothes on please


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## Cuchilo (17 Sep 2014)

and stop biting your toenails , its not a good view !


----------



## themosquitoking (17 Sep 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> I can , put some clothes on please


Do you like what i'm doing to my nipples?


----------



## Cuchilo (17 Sep 2014)

themosquitoking said:


> Do you like what i'm doing to my nipples?


Loving it !


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## themosquitoking (17 Sep 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> Loving it !


Tune in the same time tomorrow, it's lingerie thursday. Prices are double.


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## Fausto67 (5 Jul 2015)

*Intermittent Shifting*
This is usually a symptom of the standard battery being mounted externally on the frame set, in an area which is exposed such as the downtube or around the chain stays when your bike gets wet you can get moisture on the battery terminals, clean the the battery terminals and protect the battery contacts from further moisture. Shimano sell a special grease for this purpose (_I use petroleum jelly but this is not a recommendation_) I have equally seen standard battery setups wrapped in cling film which I would not advise as although this keeps water out, It can also help keep it in. Im not a fan of WD40 or similar as it places a glaze on the battery and makes it look terrible.

Thanks for posting all of this info. Do you have any advice for a front shifter that has inexplicably stopped working? Everything is charged up and plugged in as far as I can see... Could a big rain be a problem? Thanks!


----------



## Massivecompacthalo (28 Jul 2015)

Hi, I'm running Ultegra 6770 Ui2 and as I do a lot of climbing here in Catalonia, I'm interested in the climbing satellite shifters. But they are silly money and damn ugly! Ive trawled the tinternet and there a number of pages with diy solutions but does anyone know of a suitable option that can be bought? I'm useless with electronics and soldering and that sort of thing! Does anyone here make a diy option that they sell or can advise on?
Cheers in advance.


----------



## Tritwins (16 Nov 2015)

Hi,

I have an original version of the Di2 which has never worked properly since I got it almost 5 years ago. The shop I bought the bike from, the Shimano distributors and Shimano Singapore have all had the bike back multiple times and they've had the bike for over a year between them in that 5 year period. The problem is sudden discharge of the battery. If it's fully charged when I ride it's always fine but I can never risk trying to do a second ride later in the week without charging it again. Any ideas what's wrong because clearly no one at Shimano does?

I'm going to give them one more chance and then insist that they change the whole system but if anyone else has experienced something similar it might help speed up the process. 

PS I have a second battery as an emergency spare so unless I'm very unlucky with two faulty batteries I doubt it's that.


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## Massivecompacthalo (22 Nov 2015)

Sounds like the battery mount. I had a similar problem, changed the mount, issue solved.


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## Rob H (8 Dec 2015)

After some expert opinion advise.....

Just installed Ultegra 6870 to my bike, after the raft of youtube videos of how toos i picked up on a particular video that the guy have set up his shifting never to fully cross chain. ie if in the big ring never go onto the largest rear and vise versa with the small front and little rear. is this done through the etube software?

I've googled to death but just cannot find this mentioned anywhere.


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## PaulSecteur (10 Dec 2015)

I think its called synchro shift.




Rob H said:


> After some expert opinion advise.....
> 
> Just installed Ultegra 6870 to my bike, after the raft of youtube videos of how toos i picked up on a particular video that the guy have set up his shifting never to fully cross chain. ie if in the big ring never go onto the largest rear and vise versa with the small front and little rear. is this done through the etube software?
> 
> I've googled to death but just cannot find this mentioned anywhere.


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## Sbudge (10 Dec 2015)

PaulSecteur said:


> I think its called synchro shift.


Thanks, I'd been wondering about this one too. A quick Google on Synchro seems to show it's an XTR (i.e. not for road sets) thing only.


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## User33236 (10 Dec 2015)

Sbudge said:


> Thanks, I'd been wondering about this one too. A quick Google on Synchro seems to show it's an XTR (i.e. not for road sets) thing only.


Read about multi shift mode setting in the e-tube user manual (pg 8 of 10)

http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/img/help_manual_pdf/en/HM-R.2.10.0-00-EN.pdf

By default gear number limit is set to 'no limit' which would allow you to go from 'small' to 'big' cog of cassette, or vice versa, with a single long press.


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## Pumpkin the robot (10 Dec 2015)

Tritwins said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have an original version of the Di2 which has never worked properly since I got it almost 5 years ago. The shop I bought the bike from, the Shimano distributors and Shimano Singapore have all had the bike back multiple times and they've had the bike for over a year between them in that 5 year period. The problem is sudden discharge of the battery. If it's fully charged when I ride it's always fine but I can never risk trying to do a second ride later in the week without charging it again. Any ideas what's wrong because clearly no one at Shimano does?
> 
> ...



I had the same problem and did a search and found it is more than likely the wire that contains the battery charge light (the one that connects to the wires that come from the levers and also goes into the main loom). I took the bike to my LBS and they put it on their DI2 diagnostic set up and confirmed that was the faulty wire. I replaced the wire and no problems since. It seems to be a fairly well known problem (I found 5 or 6 people with the same problem)


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