# Winter sleeping bag recommendations please



## BADGER.BRAD (4 Nov 2012)

Hello,
I'm looking for some recommendations on a winter sleeping bag, I'm on a budget so I'm looking at the lower price ranges, It must fold up relatively small and be fairly light any ideas anyone ?


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## Russell Allen (4 Nov 2012)

winter where? uk / the alps / patagonia? The minimum temperature at which you wish to be comfortable is probably a good starting point. The lighter and smaller down bags tend to be more expensive than the bulkier synthetic bags.

For comfort down to 0 degrees you cant beat these for weight (615g) and size but they aren't cheap

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=79&products_id=292

You will also need a mat to insulate you from the ground. £25 to £100 depending on quality for a self inflating mat

Russell


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## Alun (4 Nov 2012)

Light and small usually mean a down bag, but they tend to be expensive, and don't get them wet.
Synthetic bags are usually bulkier and heavier, but cheaper, they have improved over the years though.
It's difficult to be more specific without knowing what use you will put it to and what your budget actually is.
Do you mean hostelling in Kent, or camping in the Highlands. Is your budget £50 or £150?
These sites might help you
http://www.alpkit.com/sleeping-bags/compare
http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=114-119


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## Norm (4 Nov 2012)

Buffalo.


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## BADGER.BRAD (4 Nov 2012)

Thanks for getting back to me, The main use will be Motorcycle/Bicycle/walking camping in the Welsh mountains and the price range is as much as it takes to get a good one without paying over the odds, I do have a four seasons bag which is very big and should work down to -2C but even in British spring time I need two bags to make it useable ( I work outside in all weathers so can stand the cold fairly well) hence the reason I'm looking for recommendations rather than the company bulls**t.
Thanks for the links I will have a good look at them ( I may end up needing two as my lad wants to come along !)
I crossed the mountains yesterday on my motorbike and there was a good covering of snow !

Brad


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## Crankarm (4 Nov 2012)

More information please. Where, when and for how long? Low weight, staying warm and low cost for a sleeping back is difficult. You really need a 4 season down bag which is ££££.

Rab charge £30 to clean their bags. They get the bag bone dry and unflock all the down. You will not be able to do this if you do it yourself. If they bugger up your bag - you get a new bag, if you bugger up your bag - end of bag. A Rab Ascent 900 down bag (approx £250) should keep you warm in a UK winter lower comfort temp is -19C or go for the next models up which are the Andes or Expedition for piece of mind.

Just saw your response. For the Welsh Mountains or Scotland you will need a warm dowm bag such as the Rab bag I mention above as it could easily drop to -10/15C on a cold clear frosty night in winter in the mountains. It is a mummy bag as most down 4 season bags are. It's very soft as well.

http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/inde.../products.detail/code/81710032/id_colour/4537

How old is your son? It is important to get a bag that fits him as too large a volume as in getting him an adult bag and he will not be as warm as he should be as too much volume for his body to heat.

HTH.


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## Crankarm (4 Nov 2012)

BADGER.BRAD said:


> Thanks for getting back to me, The main use will be Motorcycle/Bicycle/walking camping in the Welsh mountains and the price range is as much as it takes to get a good one without paying over the odds, I do have a four seasons bag which is very big and should work down to -2C but even in British spring time I need two bags to make it useable ( I work outside in all weathers so can stand the cold fairly well) hence the reason I'm looking for recommendations rather than the company bulls**t.
> Thanks for the links I will have a good look at them ( I may end up needing two as my lad wants to come along !)
> I crossed the mountains yesterday on my motorbike and there was a good covering of snow !
> 
> Brad


 
A bag that is rated down to -2C is NOT a 4 season bag. It is only a 3 season. For winter you will need at least a 4 season bag even a 4+ season bag. You will put yourself and son at severe risk by using it in winter. All bags now have to give the lower and upper comfort ranges as per European legislation because everyone has different tolerance to cold as well as men and women having different core temps which affects temp capabilities and design of a bag.

How old is your existing bag?


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## Norm (4 Nov 2012)

Still Buffalo.


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## SS Retro (4 Nov 2012)

I use a synthetic four season bag for winter canoe touring camping where the risk of a down bag getting damp is too great been comfortable down to -10 on the side of a Scottish Loch had a sheet of ice down the length of the bag where it was breathing, but it is bulky. Just as important is the mat I use a Mountain Equipment helium 3.8 self inflating its super warm and comfortable and packs small and light.

For your needs I would recommend a down bag and keep it in a dry bag you can get excellent bags at a good price from Alpkit as well as decent mats and a dry bag to keep it in.

Alpkit sleeping bags.
Alpkit Sleeping mats.
Alpkit drybags.


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## Crankarm (4 Nov 2012)

SS Retro said:


> I use a synthetic four season bag for winter canoe touring camping where the risk of a down bag getting damp is too great been comfortable down to -10 on the side of a Scottish Loch had a sheet of ice down the length of the bag where it was breathing, but it is bulky. Just as important is the mat I use a Mountain Equipment helium 3.8 self inflating its super warm and comfortable and packs small and light.
> 
> For your needs I would recommend a down bag and keep it in a dry bag you can get excellent bags at a good price from Alpkit as well as decent mats and a dry bag to keep it in.
> 
> ...


 
They are good. I have two to make a double mattress .


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## BADGER.BRAD (4 Nov 2012)

Just dragged my bag out the cupboard to see what was actually said on the cover, says 4 seasons hollow fiber ,I guessing that's 4 seasons in the tropics !
My lad is 15 and nearly my size so he is getting to the stage that I can buy him things that will last ( size wise) so can justify spending the extra money. All I need now are a cheap GPS a couple of back packs and a small tent !


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## willem (4 Nov 2012)

First, get a good insulated mattress (most of the cold comes from below). For proper winter temperatures an Exped Downmat is unsurpassed. Second, make sure you get a water repellent outer, such as PHD Dryshell. Humidity is not a big problem in really cold weather, but it is just above or below zero. Third, consider a separate second outer bag such as PHD make. I bought their artificial fibre one, to avoid issues with humidity. It is In their sale right now. Combine this with a light two season down bag and you should be fine for more than just the coldest season. As a backup, I also have a down vest that I sometimes wear inside my down bag. Finally, if you have a nice down duvet at home, why not put it on top of your sleeping bags. And be weary of indicated temperature ranges. For someone like me, who sleeps cold, even PHD are a bit optimistic.
Willem


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## steveindenmark (4 Nov 2012)

I have found by years and years of camping, cycling and motorcycling that the words CHEAP and GOOD rarely go together. I have spend so much money on cheap gear that I have spent umpteen times as much as I would have done if I had bought the GOOD expensive one to start with.

Do not buy cheap if it means keeping warm and dry, it really is not worth it. In fact it can kill you.

Steve


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## Crankarm (5 Nov 2012)

willem said:


> First, get a good insulated mattress (most of the cold comes from below). For proper winter temperatures an Exped Downmat is unsurpassed. Second, make sure you get a water repellent outer, such as PHD Dryshell. Humidity is not a big problem in really cold weather, but it is just above or below zero. Third, consider a separate second outer bag such as PHD make. I bought their artificial fibre one, to avoid issues with humidity. It is In their sale right now. Combine this with a light two season down bag and you should be fine for more than just the coldest season. As a backup, I also have a down vest that I sometimes wear inside my down bag. Finally, if you have a nice down duvet at home, why not put it on top of your sleeping bags. And be weary of indicated temperature ranges. For someone like me, who sleeps cold, even PHD are a bit optimistic.
> Willem


 
Do you really wear a down vest when in your sleeping bag? If so your bag is not warm enough for the conditions. Wearing clothing like this prevents your sleeping bag from working properly. There is no substitute for a quality down bag used in the temp range it is designed for. A 2 season bag is a summer sleeping bag and should not be used in winter, with or without, an artificial outer bag unless you want to put yourself at risk.


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## willem (5 Nov 2012)

This is the PHD combi bag that I use: http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=79&products_id=261 There is nothing dangerous about it - it only extends the range of your summer bag (a PHD minimus in my case) by at least 10 degrees, as I could confirm last weekend when I was comfortable though not very warm at minus 8 or 9 (I was too lazy to put on the vest as well). A specific winter bag would have been lighter for the same insulation, but a lot more expensive if you already have a good summer bag. In my case I could not justify the additional expense for something I do not do very often. The down vest or jacket is another old trick to extend the range of your bag at the margin. My summer bag is fine in nearly all not too extreme three season conditions, but is a bit too cold very early in Spring or very late in the Autumn, and particularly at higher elevations. I use it as an extra safety margin, and to keep me warm around the tent in the evenings, instead of a heavy and voluminous fleece. My minimus bag is wide enough (special order extra wide) to work well with the vest, and the combi bag is wider than the summer bag. In conclusion, this is not what I would buy as the ideal winter gear, but it is a comfortable and safe system for occasional use. The down vest trick is good for any time of the year: you need some vest or sweater in any case, so why not make it dual purpose?
Willem


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## 400bhp (7 Nov 2012)

Norm said:


> Still Buffalo.


 
La la la

We can't hear you.


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## Norm (7 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> La la la
> 
> We can't hear you.


I've got a Buffalo Wind Shirt too, which you probably also don't want to hear about, even though it's also rather yummy.


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## SS Retro (8 Nov 2012)

Norm said:


> I've got a Buffalo Wind Shirt too, which you probably also don't want to hear about, even though it's also rather yummy.


I've got a real Buffalo he is warm but doesn't pack down so well.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (16 Nov 2012)

I love RAB sleeping bags, I have 3 of them, my husband has 2 of them, yet none of them where what we took on tour (well I started with a Rab neutrino 700? but it died 2 weeks into the tour - human error). They are an investment, but they are worth every penny when you can wake up in the morning with a layer of ice over the top of the sleeping bag and know you are toasty warm - that was -18C in the Lake District many many years ago. Looked after, used with a silk liner or washed professionally they last. I know, we have 2 of the old Rab Premeire 1100 bags. One was 2nd hand when we purchased it back in 1991, the other was purchased new (£395) back in 1995 I think it was. The younger of the two you can not tell it's age at all.

For what you are after, I would probably be looking at something similar to what we were using back in Turkey at the beginning of this year. I have a Marmot Pinnacle (comfort rated to -9C, extreme rating to -30C) used with a Exped downmat 7, silk liner and on the colder nights I simply put my thermals on, hats and gloves and slept in those - I prefer to have my head out of the sleeping bag unless it is seriously cold. We were living outdoors at the time and used to the cold, so that did us down to -10C without issues and I need to be warm at night to sleep (warm toes, cold nose rule). We never got the chance to test it to lower temperatures, but between the tent and the bag/mats + additional clothing we had available, we did not consider it much of an issue - sure I would have loved to have been carrying my big RAB sleeping bag but if I was, I would not have had room for anything else in my rear pannier at all.

PS - I have never had any great issues keeping a down bag dry - the only time I failed was in Greece when the bag was hanging over the bannister rails of the holiday home we had taken and a sudden rain storm came over blosing open the windows and raining directly onto the bag. Sure the bag gets damp but they are easy to dry out in the evening by simply putting over your legs whilst in the tent and they air naturally. We did this for 12 months, plus the odd hanging over a bush to air in the late afternoon and never needed to do anythign more serious and did not suffer any mold issues at all.


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## Hicky (19 Nov 2012)

I have the softie 10 from snugpak, well two of the so they can zip together!!
I can sleep in Brecon in the winter in a bivibag but the wife struggles in summer in Cornwall!
Good/cheap and packs down small is not going to happen.
I'd buy the same bag again everyday, I've abused mine(slept with boots on), left it packed for months on end and it still performs, if anything buy some fleece inners and bobs your uncle.
A friend has a buffalo bag but it is big when packed down, I have a buffalo wind shirt, awesome piece of kit, wouldn't be without it!


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## tadpole (19 Nov 2012)

For use on the Motorbike I'd say a grade one British army arctic sleeping bag, I've used one for years and for me it is good to -5 degrees, or with a liner -7degrees.(under a tarp) It is dirt cheap and with a stuff sack will pack down to a reasonable size, it is not light though. 
AS with all things camping of the three desires “cheap light good”, you only ever get to pick two of the three. I'm willing to sacrifice weight for a decent nights sleep. The large one is good fit for a fatty like me and if you're a racing snake there is room for a inner bag with will give you a claimed minus20 degrees of comfort.


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## Hicky (19 Nov 2012)

Bouncing bomb the army bag is, your reasonable pack size must differ to mine.
They come in sizes too(if you decide to look at them), excellent for the money though.


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## tadpole (19 Nov 2012)

Hicky said:


> Bouncing bomb the army bag is, your reasonable pack size must differ to mine.
> They come in sizes too(if you decide to look at them), excellent for the money though.


 
My arctic sleeping bag packs to a size that will fit in the bottom section of my 75lt bag and still leave room for all the gear for a 3 day camp including sharps, axes, pots, pans, food and booze along with all the other extra stuff needed for cooking over a wood fire, and still leave the bag light enough to carry for a couple of miles. 
I didn’t need the extra stuff that several people seem to recommend when using a lightweight £200 job, like a buffalo shirt, liner and gortex bivibag legging base layers etc. So if my arctic sleeping bag on its own, fits into a smaller space than a smaller bag that needs a liner and a set of sleeping clothes, and a buffalo shirt and a bivi bag and a thick mattress. 
I’d say that for it packs down to reasonable size, and the current arctic sleeping system bag is nothing like the 58 pattern “bouncing bomb”


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## Hicky (19 Nov 2012)

I mean current issue unless chill well have some layering system like the us forces


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## Stonepark (19 Nov 2012)

I use a Softie Elite 5, can pick them up from about £85 new and have both an expander section (more room) and reflectotherm (aluminium blanket sewn into it effectively).

http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=93-101&ItemID=16


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## Blue Hills (20 Nov 2012)

Any recommended links to said Brit Army arctic bag?

On the subject of fleece liners, I saw some in Go Outddors the other day - they looked very bulky and I wasn't convinced that they would trap much warm air. Rather had the impression that I'd be better taking along an extra lightweight summer Coleman bag I have and putting that inside. Others views welcomed of course.


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## Herr-B (20 Nov 2012)

Snugpak Softie 12, got mine in '99 and it's still great. Got me through a very cold Balkan winter (tented, outside temp -29).


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## Andrew_Culture (20 Nov 2012)

Has anyone suggested Army Surplus? I have used my ten quid British Army bag for about fifteen years and it has arms! You can also upzip the middle and wear the sleeping bag as a massive coat, which is 'teh sex' as I believe the kids say.


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## tadpole (20 Nov 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> Any recommended links to said Brit Army arctic bag?
> 
> On the subject of fleece liners, I saw some in Go Outddors the other day - they looked very bulky and I wasn't convinced that they would trap much warm air. Rather had the impression that I'd be better taking along an extra lightweight summer Coleman bag I have and putting that inside. Others views welcomed of course.


 Give Kevin a ring at Endicotts *01392 433331, *He'll be able to sort you out with something, and he knows his stuff. His website is confusing to use but he himself is the boss when it comes to selling


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## tadpole (20 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Has anyone suggested Army Surplus? I have used my ten quid *GERMAN* Army bag for about fifteen years and it has arms! You can also upzip the middle and wear the sleeping bag as a massive coat, which is 'teh sex' as I believe the kids say.


Fixed that for you


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## Crankarm (20 Nov 2012)

RAB will clean any of their sleeping bags, get them PROPERLY dry and de-flock the down for £30. Bargin!

Also if they bugger it up you get a new bag. If you or a 3rd party bugger it up then you are stuck.

Down jackets and vests £20.


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## Andrew_Culture (20 Nov 2012)

tadpole said:


> Fixed that for you


 
You're probably right, my confusion over British / German would have gotten me in a proper pickle about 100 years ago.


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## tadpole (20 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> You're probably right, my confusion over British / German would have gotten me in a proper pickle about 100 years ago.


 It's just that the German Sniper bag is the one with arms, the British snipers had to do without. (Sorry but it is just my nature)


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## Andrew_Culture (20 Nov 2012)

tadpole said:


> It's just that the German Sniper bag is the one with arms, the British snipers had to do without. (Sorry but it is just my nature)


 
They must have looked really silly sitting around the campfire at music festivals with no arms on their sleeping bags.


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## Hicky (20 Nov 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> Any recommended links to said Brit Army arctic bag?
> 
> On the subject of fleece liners, I saw some in Go Outddors the other day - they looked very bulky and I wasn't convinced that they would trap much warm air. Rather had the impression that I'd be better taking along an extra lightweight summer Coleman bag I have and putting that inside. Others views welcomed of course.


 
Depend what clothes you sleep in(or dont) as you have a warm surface again you rather than cold(large bags have cold areas which sometimes disturb (my)sleep), also it is easier to wash/dry a fleece liner(hygiene) than the whole bag if you are going to be using the bag for some time.

Google british army sleeping system(technically that means roll mat and gortex bivibag), for the money very robust warm bags but I wake myself up as I find them too big for me, if you dont use the stuffsack the packsize is huge.


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