# Playing in the street.



## derrick (5 Apr 2021)

Got back from a ride Saturday afternoon, All the kids where playing in the street, so i thought i would join in the fun.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNQcQAEhrue/


----------



## fossyant (5 Apr 2021)

I was waiting fo you to do the jumps !


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2021)

Great to see kids playing outside instead of sitting in front of the TV


----------



## simongt (5 Apr 2021)

Back in the day, there used to be designated playstreets. I was too wee to understand or indeed care about the legal arrangements of motor traffic vs. bairns, but it worked for us - ! 
Okay. there was a lot less traffic about then, but the point was that such streets existed.


----------



## Andy in Germany (6 Apr 2021)

simongt said:


> Back in the day, there used to be designated playstreets. I was too wee to understand or indeed care about the legal arrangements of motor traffic vs. bairns, but it worked for us - !
> Okay. there was a lot less traffic about then, but the point was that such streets existed.



They still do here: they have a 7km/h (4mph) speed limit and are very common. 

Unfortunately it only takes a couple of drivers to ignore this and the system stops working as well as it should.


----------



## Eric Olthwaite (6 Apr 2021)

I counted more than 6 people there!!


----------



## Boopop (6 Apr 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Great to see kids playing outside instead of sitting in front of the TV



Sadly they often don't have much choice when their once quiet residential road has now become a rat run, and it's a dangerous walk to the nearest park. I note that the road in this video is a cul-de-sac, so doesn't suffer this issue. Measures to improve safe active transport and reduce through-roads for cars help. Look up your local Living Streets group if this sort of thing interests you.


----------



## Phaeton (6 Apr 2021)

Boopop said:


> Sadly they often don't have much choice when their once quiet residential road has now become a rat run, and it's a dangerous walk to the nearest park. I note that the road in this video is a cul-de-sac, so doesn't suffer this issue. Measures to improve safe active transport and reduce through-roads for cars help. Look up your local Living Streets group if this sort of thing interests you.


Yes I fully understand that, we live on a cul-de-sac, yet as they have stopped parents parking on the next cul-de-sac up the estate which is outside the school gates, we get mothers (mostly) now screaming up our road, as they are late picking up little Johnny & Tabatha up, I'm sure they come into the road in-excess of 30mph & then accelerate up to the end.


----------



## Boopop (6 Apr 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Yes I fully understand that, we live on a cul-de-sac, yet as they have stopped parents parking on the next cul-de-sac up the estate which is outside the school gates, we get mothers (mostly) now screaming up our road, as they are late picking up little Johnny & Tabatha up, I'm sure they come into the road in-excess of 30mph & then accelerate up to the end.


Ugh, that awful


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2021)

I remember the street I played in as a teenager. 30 limit. technically a cul-de-sac, but served several residential off-shoots.[just checked the map - we were usually about 400metres from the end]

we played, a car approached, they slowed down, we shifted (usually straight away), repeat: everyone got on with their day. No "Play street" signage needed. No parents worried about us, no injuries.


----------



## numbnuts (6 Apr 2021)

When I was a child we lived in a cul-de-sac, but we were never allowed to play in the road.


----------



## Boopop (6 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> I remember the street I played in as a teenager. 30 limit. technically a cul-de-sac, but served several residential off-shoots.[just checked the map - we were usually about 400metres from the end]
> 
> we played, a car approached, they slowed down, we shifted (usually straight away), repeat: everyone got on with their day. No "Play street" signage needed. No parents worried about us, no injuries.



I suspect a car approaching was a much rarer occurence in years gone by. Modal filters and play streets are the only way to reduce their numbers on residential streets or keep them out of residential streets entirely, respectively. If you tried what you suggested on the average residential road these days there'd either be an accident very quickly or the kids would spend more time waiting for there to be no traffic than actual playtime. There's too many cars.






(Source: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ttachment_data/file/8995/vehicles-summary.pdf)


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2021)

Boopop said:


> I suspect a car approaching was a much rarer occurence in years gone by. Modal filters and play streets are the only way to reduce their numbers on residential streets or *keep them out of residential streets entirely*, respectively.


["much rarer" - your graphs suggests 50% rarer (at best). But anyway: ]
the point I was trying to make is that we shouldn't need to keep them out entirely. Live-and-let-live can go a long way.

Although I do agree with you that we have too many cars generally!


----------



## Boopop (6 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> ["much rarer" - your graphs suggests 50% rarer (at best). But anyway: ]
> the point I was trying to make is that we shouldn't need to keep them out entirely. Live-and-let-live can go a long way.
> 
> Although I do agree with you that we have too many cars generally!



Well part of the issue back then there was enough capacity on main roads that drivers rarely used residential roads as rat runs. The two options are either build more roads that just encourages more car ownership (see last fifty years), or encourage fewer car journeys. Live and let live (and build more roads) is what we have had since the fifties and it doesn't work...it just reinforces car dominance.


----------



## Ian H (6 Apr 2021)

Ancient Mr Cox, whose family lived in this house before the war, told of being scolded for breaking a front window whilst playing football in the street. In those days the street was the A30, the main road to the SW.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2021)

Boopop said:


> Well part of the issue back then there was enough capacity on main roads that drivers rarely used residential roads as rat runs. The two options are either build more roads that just encourages more car ownership (see last fifty years), or encourage fewer car journeys. Live and let live (and build more roads) is what we have had since the fifties and it doesn't work...it just reinforces car dominance.


... but I wasn't talking about a rat-run!


----------



## Boopop (6 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> ... but I wasn't talking about a rat-run!



True, but I think my point still stands. Live and let live doesn't lead to pedestrian friendly streets, cul-de-sac or not.


----------



## derrick (6 Apr 2021)

There are always adults out in the road when the kids are out playing, We have one woman in the road who thinks she is Lewis Hamilton, But she slows down a little when she see's kids playing, Everyone else is good, the delivery drivers all seem to drive carefully. We also play badminton with a net across the road, never so far had a problem.


----------



## BoldonLad (6 Apr 2021)

Boopop said:


> *I suspect a car approaching was a much rarer occurence in years gone by. *Modal filters and play streets are the only way to reduce their numbers on residential streets or keep them out of residential streets entirely, respectively. If you tried what you suggested on the average residential road these days there'd either be an accident very quickly or the kids would spend more time waiting for there to be no traffic than actual playtime. There's too many cars.
> 
> View attachment 582602
> 
> (Source: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ttachment_data/file/8995/vehicles-summary.pdf)



I was born in 1947. Cars were most definitely rare! The street I lived in aged 4, (1951) had one car owning occupant, in a street of about 100 houses.

I recently cycled along the same street, there was nose to tail (or should that be bonnet to boot?) parked cars on both sides of the street.

Needless to say, there were no signs of children playing in the street.

The street I now live in is a cul-de-sac of 11 houses, mostly "mature" people, but, two families with young children (ages 2 - 7 approximately). The children do play in the street, although, I note one of the parents is always present. Very nice to see (children playing outside).


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2021)

derrick said:


> There are always adults out in the road when the kids are out playing, We have one woman in the road who thinks she is Lewis Hamilton, But she slows down a little when she see's kids playing, Everyone else is good, the delivery drivers all seem to drive carefully. We also play badminton with a net across the road, never so far had a problem.


This is the thing - modern people (even drivers) CAN get along. (although I'm not sure I'd describe all MY local delivery drivers as driving carefully - there are soooo many more this year than previously, and I suspect they're all under more time pressure  )

Modal filters and other approaches to LTNs definitely help. I agree that rat-running is a blight, where it exists (I guess I'm lucky I've never lived on one).


----------



## bikingdad90 (6 Apr 2021)

My parents road is a cul-de-sac and the families who moved in when new build have grown up and flown the nest and a few of the houses have been sold on with new families moving in. It’s great to see the next generation of children out playing in the street.

All the houses have decent double driveways to keep the pathways free and all the families look out for one another and know each other; if little Jonny gives little Doris some cheek you can be sure Jonny will get a scalding in double time! The community feel is very nice and also means that those driving in and out the road always drive carefully and considerably. I’m glad I got to enjoy growing up in that type of road! My children have similar but we live next to a green which is even more rare!

I know it is very much an exception to the norm now as the houses were built at a time when gardens and driveways were decent sizes and never as with a single driveway, town housing and small gardens as is found at the other end of the estate which after 30years is finally fully built out with new builds.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> The children do play in the street, although, I note one of the parents is always present.


As a generalization, I'd say that modern "stranger danger" plays as much a part in this as the traffic threat.


----------



## BoldonLad (6 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> As a generalization, I'd say that modern "stranger danger" plays as much a part in this as the traffic threat.



Yes, I would agree. Between the danger of traffic and "perverts" I think may present day parents are very reluctant to allow children out to play, which, IMHO, is sad. When I look back at my childhood, I often think, perhaps, if "present day attitudes" had applied, my parents would have been accused of neglect!


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2021)

BoldonLad said:


> I often think, perhaps, if "present day attitudes" had applied, my parents would have been accused of neglect!


Yes I'm a child of the 60's we would roam 2-3 miles away from home, often going out in the morning & not returning till tea time, unless of course we got hungry.


----------



## oldworld (7 Apr 2021)

numbnuts said:


> When I was a child we lived in a cul-de-sac, but we were never allowed to play in the road.


Was that for your safety or those of the residents?


----------



## oldworld (7 Apr 2021)

Born in 1943 my childhood was spent playing in the street and among the bombed out buildings in London.
Very, very little traffic so little danger from the roads.
Very different in cities today and I see very little play actually in the street.

I can well understand mums and dads not letting their children risk getting knocked over but I think the perception of the risk from a murderer or pervert snatching their child is out of proportion. I believe it no worse than when I was a child but when it happens is has massive coverage, press, tv and radio, plus of course social media. 
My daughter thinks danger lies at every corner for my grand children. As a result, aged 8 and 9 , they have never been anywhere without mum or dad.


----------



## numbnuts (7 Apr 2021)

oldworld said:


> Was that for your safety or those of the residents?


 
My parents were snobs “one does not play in the streets”


----------



## simongt (8 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> we have too many cars generally!


And around Norwich, new houses are going up like mushrooms. Problem being that for the prospective residents of said new houses which are being built on the edges of the city, to get anywhere; work, school run, shopping etc., they are pretty much forced to drive.


----------



## Andy in Germany (8 Apr 2021)

simongt said:


> And around Norwich, new houses are going up like mushrooms. Problem being that for the prospective residents of said new houses which are being built on the edges of the city, to get anywhere; work, school run, shopping etc., they are pretty much forced to drive.



A common problem: you can't change how people travel until you change the way we build.


----------



## Boopop (9 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> A common problem: you can't change how people travel until you change the way we build.



I suspect it's a vicious cycle (excuse the pun!), people are used to car dominance so that's what they expect and thus what developers build. I do wonder what would happen if everyone across the country lived in Utrecht for a couple of weeks then came back here, there might be more demand for change then. On the bright side at least thse days a trip to certain parts of London would potentially be enough to change minds.


----------



## Andy in Germany (9 Apr 2021)

Boopop said:


> I suspect it's a vicious cycle (excuse the pun!), people are used to car dominance so that's what they expect and thus what developers build. I do wonder what would happen if everyone across the country lived in Utrecht for a couple of weeks then came back here, there might be more demand for change then. On the bright side at least thse days a trip to certain parts of London would potentially be enough to change minds.



Oddly, I've noticed that wherever there is a car free development here, there's a waiting list to move in.


----------



## bitsandbobs (10 Apr 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Oddly, I've noticed that wherever there is a car free development here, there's a waiting list to move in.



Germany truly is the land of milk and honey!


----------



## Andy in Germany (10 Apr 2021)

bitsandbobs said:


> Germany truly is the land of milk and honey!



And Mercedes, and BMW, Audi, Maybach, Porsche, VW...

These tend to mitigate against there being more, or even enough car free places...


----------

