# Have I made a terrible mistake?



## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

I've been on the lookout for a nicer frame for my SS for quite a while and have been bidding on THIS Fuji but don't realistically think I'll be able to get it for my £50 budget.

So today I spotted THIS old Dawes frame with almost perfect looking rear drops and 'accidentally' won the auction for just £18. In my haste I thought the frame size looked alright, but I now notice that it's a 26" frame! Now I'm a fairly lanky fellow who stands around 6' to 6' 2" and has long legs, but have I made a terrible mistake buying a frame that looks like a gate?


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## Custom24 (11 Apr 2013)

I'm guessing you intended to put some links in, but forgot...


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## deanE (11 Apr 2013)

Ok, so you have bought a gate.


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

Custom24 said:


> I'm guessing you intended to put some links in, but forgot...


 

Opps

Fuji - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151023624469?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2649

Dawes - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350758567339?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## PpPete (11 Apr 2013)

My original fixed frame was a 25.5" Dawes and similar sized Carlton I replaced it with doesn't seem quite as stiff. Both are 531.
At 6' 2" and 35" inside leg (to the floor) that is the right size for me in those old-school frames.


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

Hmm, I've just looked at how large my first vintage bike was, and it was 23" but we will have to see!

At worst I'll get it stripped and powder coated then try and sell it on to recoop my loss


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## RecordAceFromNew (11 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I've been on the lookout for a nicer frame for my SS for quite a while and have been bidding on THIS Fuji but don't realistically think I'll be able to get it for my £50 budget.
> 
> So today I spotted THIS old Dawes frame with almost perfect looking rear drops and 'accidentally' won the auction for just £18. In my haste I thought the frame size looked alright, but I now notice that it's a 26" frame! Now I'm a fairly lanky fellow who stands around 6' to 6' 2" and has long legs, but have I made a terrible mistake buying a frame that looks like a gate?


 
In those days the "standard" sizing technique at the bike shop was to stand over the crossbar and see if an inch or two of clearance exists. I am 6 ft, my PBH is 36" and my Record Ace is 25". You might need to pick stem and bars carefully to avoid overstretching.

Even if it is too large you probably wouldn't lose much money reselling it as is or built up.


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> In those days the "standard" sizing technique at the bike shop was to stand over the crossbar and see if an inch or two of clearance exists. I am 6 ft, my PBH is 36" and my Record Ace is 25". You might need to pick stem and bars carefully to avoid overstretching.
> 
> Even if it is too large you probably wouldn't lose much money reselling it as is or built up.


 
And it'll be fun!


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## HLaB (11 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Hmm, I've just looked at how large my first vintage bike was, and it was 23" but we will have to see!
> 
> At worst I'll get it stripped and powder coated then try and sell it on to recoop my loss


If it is too big (65cm it probably is ) I try and sell it on before you go to that hassle, good luck.


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## tyred (11 Apr 2013)

I'm 5'11'' and can comfortably ride my 25" Viscount. Big frames were in fashion then.

The important points are can you stand over it with even a little clearance and how long is the top tube. My Viscount is actually quite short compared to some frames and I ride with a longish stem.


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## HLaB (11 Apr 2013)

I know KOP is a myth but I cycled a frame that was too big for me and it resulted in knee problems as the saddle was too far set back (even fully forward) of the BB; its har to judge from the pic if the set back is too extreme.


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## User269 (11 Apr 2013)

What's the frame made of? Is it butted/double butted Reynolds or Tange, or just an ordinary steel frame?


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## mickle (11 Apr 2013)

Bigger than 24" frames are over-represented in second hand listings because so few people fit on them that they're less likely ridden into the ground, trashed or crashed. So there's a lot of big bikes around. At six feet (and on a 23.5 inch frame) one I'm in the top 2%ile of the population, which means that your target market for selling such a big frame is tiny. It's a buyer's market, I'd be carful about spending any money on it before selling it.


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

User269 said:


> What's the frame made of? Is it butted/double butted Reynolds or Tange, or just an ordinary steel frame?


 
It looks like this:


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

mickle said:


> Bigger than 24" frames are over-represented in second hand listings because so few people fit on them that they're less likely ridden into the ground, trashed or crashed. So there's a lot of big bikes around. At six feet (and on a 23.5 inch frame) one I'm in the top 2%ile of the population, which means that your target market for selling such a big frame is tiny. It's a buyer's market, I'd be carful about spending any money on it before selling it.


 
Thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to actually use this bike, I want the frame to replace the horrid frame I currently have.

The most this bike will ever do is twenty miles a day, and that's over three rides (to work, lunchtime ride and going home).


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## mickle (11 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to actually use this bike, I want the frame to replace the horrid frame I currently have.
> 
> The most this bike will ever do is twenty miles a day, and that's over three rides (to work, lunchtime ride and going home).


Yeahbut... if it doesn't fit _it doesn't fit_. Would you wear a hat or pair of shoes two sizes too big? Are you prepared for the shame and embarrassment, the riducule from passersby, of riding a bike which is two sizes two big?


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## Andrew_Culture (11 Apr 2013)

mickle said:


> Yeahbut... if it doesn't fit _it doesn't fit_. Would you wear a hat or pair of shoes two sizes too big? Are you prepared for the shame and embarrassment, the riducule from passersby, of riding a bike which is two sizes two big?


 
I'll distract them with cheery whistling.

Point taken though.


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## Old Plodder (11 Apr 2013)

Rough guide to frame sizing, when 'normal' frames were made, inside leg minus 9".
(Top tubes came in 'short', or 'normal'.)
So until you can measure it against yourself, you won't know.
Looks likely to be of good quality looking at the lugwork.


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Apr 2013)

I've still not had any contact from the seller despite my attempts to get payment sorted. Perhaps I might get a chance to wriggle out of the deal. I want to know if this is the case as there's a far more attractive bike I could be bidding on


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## Old Plodder (13 Apr 2013)

I'm probably wrong, but my understanding of the Paypal system is that the money is held by them until you get the goods, & is released when you tell Paypal.


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## Dave Davenport (13 Apr 2013)

Can't see him getting much change out of £18 for the postage, maybe why he's gone quiet.


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Apr 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Can't see him getting much change out of £18 for the postage, maybe why he's gone quiet.



He replied saying he's been busy with work, and he dropped the postage from £25 to £15 which means I might have enough funds left for the powder coating, assuming this bike isn't much too large for me of course.


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## Scilly Suffolk (13 Apr 2013)

Thanks for linking to the Fuji: it's not like you knew I was interested...


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## swee'pea99 (14 Apr 2013)

I'm smaller than you (6', 34" IL) and my frame (a Dawes, as it happens) is that size, and I'm very, very happy with it. It doubtless *is* a bit on the big side, but I've never found it a problem. I agree, though, that I wouldn't put money into it before selling it on, if that's what you decide you want to do.


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## thegravestoneman (15 Apr 2013)

I am 6'2 all but dammit and the bike I had made for me in about 1983 is a 25" frame My record ace that was stolen last year was a 25" my fixed wheel 1950s Hobbs lugless was a 25" erm my Higgins trike is a 25" as was my made to measure Bob Jackson trike, you might notice a theme here? I could ride 23.5 frames but they were always a bit of a comprimise with excessive Handle bar stems and all the post showing. This is now what seems to be the norm though for 6 footer and good luck and happy riding to all those that ride them. 
Having said all that I worked in a bike shop in the eighties and got to ride all sorts and found the jump from 25 inch to a 25.5 inch frame of which Dawes were one of the main makers in that size a tad to big and I always felt as if I was teetering on them a bit (can't quite describe it) rather than a part of them. Not sure why ?

Shorter Rochford who made my first frame when I was about 16 supplied me with a 25" too come to think of it

I would say build it up give it a go and if it suits throw some money at it and if it doesn't get it back on Ebay.

here is a picture of my bespoke before they sold out to make mountain bikes 'gate' of a Saracen


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Apr 2013)

Well it's here and it's, well, 'substantial'...































Not sure how I feel about it yet. The horizontal drops are lovely and this isn't the sort of frame that will disolve during the winter commute!

So maybe I should make do and build a proper robust commuter...


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## thegravestoneman (17 Apr 2013)

hmm! not one of their higher models then. Should still ride alright though, enjoy the rebuild and fingers crossed it'll be a revelation.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Apr 2013)

I thought I had better check the frame size before doing any work at all.

Based on using 700c wheels I wanted to check that I could clear the crossbar, so I tried to hold the frame with what would be the rear axel 350mm off the ground. Well at least I tried to. The highest I could lift the frame without doing myself a genital discourtesy was 320mm.

So... would anyone like to buy a frame?


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Apr 2013)

thegravestoneman said:


> hmm! not one of their higher models then. Should still ride alright though, enjoy the rebuild and fingers crossed it'll be a revelation.



Alas not, the search continues.


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## uphillstruggler (17 Apr 2013)

stick a few bits on it and see

what have you got to lose? apart from the odd knacker?


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## Dave Davenport (17 Apr 2013)

Do a quick spray job, put on some coloured wheels & chopped off straight bars, don't bother about brakes and flog it to a lanky hipster for 500 quid.


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## Dave Davenport (17 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I thought I had better check the frame size before doing any work at all.
> 
> Based on using 700c wheels I wanted to check that I could clear the crossbar, so I tried to hold the frame with what would be the rear axel 350mm off the ground. Well at least I tried to. The highest I could lift the frame without doing myself a genital discourtesy was 320mm.
> 
> ...


 
Wear some high heels and it'll be fine.


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## swee'pea99 (23 Apr 2013)

Further to my earlier message, I just gave my Dawes her wash 'n brush up (I wash her every year whether she needs it or not) and took the time to see how it compares with yours. For the record, if I straddle the frame wearing trainers, it just gently rubs the old undercarriage, which is probably not Best Practice, but it's never worried me, and certainly doesn't stop it being a very enjoyable ride. Do note, tho', how low the saddle is, and also the minimal front-extension on the handlebar stem - it's the shortest I could get.







Mind you, I would just add that from your description, I personally would be tempted to chuck that one back in the water (or, to put it another way, put it back on ebay with a slightly OTT description featuring key phrases like 'fixie' and 'steel is real' - you might get more than you paid for it) and look out for/bide my time awaiting something a bit nicer. A tatty-but-serviceable 531, eg.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

Thanks for coming back to me on this. I did cast the Dawes back into the pond and it was snapped up by another tall cyclist here on CycleChat.

So I bought this wonderful frame, which arrived this morning.


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## swee'pea99 (23 Apr 2013)

Snap!


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> Snap!


 
It's also the same colour as my geared bike!


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## uphillstruggler (23 Apr 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Thanks for coming back to me on this. I did cast the Dawes back into the pond and it was snapped up by another tall cyclist here on CycleChat.
> 
> So I bought this wonderful frame, which arrived this morning.
> 
> View attachment 22314


 
this looks like it could be interesting, progress pictures with the project?


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Apr 2013)

uphillstruggler said:


> this looks like it could be interesting, progress pictures with the project?


 
Naturally


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## swee'pea99 (24 Apr 2013)

Yes indeed...that's exactly the kind of thing I had in mind. Should make a nice beastie.


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