# Help - Constant splitting tubes at valve shaft !!



## giantxtc (30 Nov 2011)

I really hope someone can help me find a solution to this problem because it is driving me mad!!

For some time now, I have been painfully enduring a chronic problem with inner tubes splitting right at the base of the valve shaft. I must have gone through about 10 inner tubes now in the last 100 miles, each and every one on the rear rim, rubber splitting at the same point, at the base of the inner tube valve. I ride a Giant XTC MTB on Mavic XM 317 rims with regular 2.1 tyres and have tried various brands of inner tube.

I use a mini hand pump to inflate and I take EXTREME care whilst doing so nowadays as I am so paranoid over this problem. Tonight I rode home 3 miles and went through TWO inner tubes. At ten quid, this is quickly becoming MORE expensive than using public transport to boot LOL.

I've never come across a problem like this before. I've had bikes all my life and usually can figure out such niggles but this one has me stumped.

I have tried :
Lowering the tyre pressure
Increasing the tyre pressure
Various brands of inner tube
Various hand pumps (not used a track pump but I really don't think this is the issue)
I've padded the inner tube around the area (with old inner tube segments) but still it splits.


Someone....please tell me you know the answer to this one.....


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## HLaB (30 Nov 2011)

You seem to have tried my 3 guesses, brand (specialized was bad for me), technique (ensuring the pump head goes on and of square) and damage. Try getting hold of a track pump (maybe a lend) as well as it being easier to get to the correct pressure, for a hand pump there may be movement as you pump up a track pump avoids that.


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## jay clock (30 Nov 2011)

Something to do with the area around the valve hole? Agreed that a track pump will be more stable. Are you using locking nuts on the valves? Otherwise does seem odd


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## HovR (30 Nov 2011)

Have you taken the tire/tube off the rim and checked around the suspect area for any sharp metal burs or other objects?

Also, a tenner sounds awful expensive if you mean per tube. I use eBay brandless tubes. Normally around £5 for two, and I haven't noticed any difference between them and the branded tubes. Alternatively Halfords tubes are £5 for one, and they also seem pretty good.


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## Gerry Attrick (30 Nov 2011)

Check for rough edges around the valve hole as HovR suggests. If ok, make a rubber washer from an old tube and put it on the valve stem before inserting the valve through the rim. This cured a similar problem I was having on my tourer.


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## MontyVeda (30 Nov 2011)

yeah i was plagued by this for a few years too.it appeared that my tyre was gradually slipping around the rim putting the valve askew, and eventually the stretched bit where the valve meets the tube would split.

1st solution was buying a better pump... but wasn't a 100% cure. Then I stopped buying cheap wilko inner tubes... and not had the problem since. but you've tried different tubes so that's covered. If it is your tyre slipping around the rim and taking the inner tube with it, give the section of your tyres which meet the rim a good clean to remove any grease (?) or a build up of that grey dust that builds up... maybe?


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## giantxtc (30 Nov 2011)

Gerry Attrick said:


> Check for rough edges around the valve hole as HovR suggests. If ok, make a rubber washer from an old tube and put it on the valve stem before inserting the valve through the rim. This cured a similar problem I was having on my tourer.


 
Yes I thought about this too but as mentioned in original post, I have chopped up old inner tubes and made little "washer" shaped pads to go over the new tube valve, but it still splits.


HovR said:


> Have you taken the tire/tube off the rim and checked around the suspect area for any sharp metal burs or other objects?
> 
> Also, a tenner sounds awful expensive if you mean per tube. I use eBay brandless tubes. Normally around £5 for two, and I haven't noticed any difference between them and the branded tubes. Alternatively Halfords tubes are £5 for one, and they also seem pretty good.


 
I have checked around the edge of the hole yes, and it seems perfectly normal. In fact I have rode this bike for over 4 years and for most of that time I had no problems. then suddenly it started only on the rear and now I just can't see whats causing it.


HovR said:


> Have you taken the tire/tube off the rim and checked around the suspect area for any sharp metal burs or other objects?
> 
> Also, a tenner sounds awful expensive if you mean per tube. I use eBay brandless tubes. Normally around £5 for two, and I haven't noticed any difference between them and the branded tubes. Alternatively Halfords tubes are £5 for one, and they also seem pretty good.


 
Sorry should have been clearer there. I meant tenner for the two tubes I went through this evening (5 each). I don't really feel the money is the main concern, that's not why I commute by bike. The hassle factor is by far the most annoying. But i just rubs salt in the wounds I suppose to know youve spent a tenner on inner tubes in one day when the round trip by bus is £2.60 LOL


jay clock said:


> Something to do with the area around the valve hole? Agreed that a track pump will be more stable. Are you using locking nuts on the valves? Otherwise does seem odd


 
I would totally be convinced by the track pump theory ... IF this problem had been around since the start. But I had 4 years of fairly trouble free cycling and this has started a few weeks ago with no change to pump so I really doubt this is the problem. However your suggestion is valid and as a process of elimination I'll try it..




Seriously guys, I am even considering changing rims it's so annoying and infuriating. What about the rim liner? Could that be a potential cause? It's very soft blue nylon type material, no sharpies at all. 

Baffled !!


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## giantxtc (30 Nov 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> yeah i was plagued by this for a few years too.it appeared that my tyre was gradually slipping around the rim putting the valve askew, where eventually the stretched bit would split.
> 
> 1st solution was buying a better pump... but wasn't a 100% cure. Then I stopped buying cheap wilko inner tubes... and not had the problem since. but you've tried different tubes so that's covered. If it is your tyre slipping around the rim and taking the inner tube with it, give the section of your tyres which meet the rim a good clean to remove any grease (?) or a build up of that grey dust that builds up... maybe?


 
Hmm you know what that sounds like a very feasible suggestion. The tyres themselves do seem extremely loose for the rims. And the split is always perpendicular to the direction of rotation which would concur with your theory. 

Ok new road tyres it is. Anyone recommend a good set of skinny road tyres (say approx 1 - 1.25") to stick on?

Thanks to all for your suggestions.


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## byegad (1 Dec 2011)

If it's an aero section tube with a deep central well in the rim you have a bubble of tube form either side of the valve, this will burst sometimes on the move, other times when parked. I ad this on a Dahon Matrix-V. You could try to fill the well either side of the valve. My solution was to buy new wheels!


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## alecstilleyedye (1 Dec 2011)

replace the rim tape with velox. as noone has mentioned it, are the tubes the right size for the tyre?


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## mickle (1 Dec 2011)

What valves are you using? (apologies if this has been mentioned and I missed it but I'm not reading it all again)


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> What valves are you using? (apologies if this has been mentioned and I missed it but I'm not reading it all again)


 
Presta


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

alecstilleyedye said:


> replace the rim tape with velox. as noone has mentioned it, are the tubes the right size for the tyre?


 
Tubes are right size for tyre yes.


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

byegad said:


> If it's an aero section tube with a deep central well in the rim you have a bubble of tube form either side of the valve, this will burst sometimes on the move, other times when parked. I ad this on a Dahon Matrix-V. You could try to fill the well either side of the valve. My solution was to buy new wheels!


 
So are you saying that some wheels will simply damage tubes? Thing is I rode this bike for 4 years without a hitch. Then since getting a regular puncture one time, all susequent tubes have failed at the base of the presta valve stem, splitting the rubber right at the bottom.


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## mickle (1 Dec 2011)

giantxtc said:


> Presta


I put it to you that you are failing to seat the valve, and /or using the useless screw on valve lock rings which come with the inner tubes and which must be thrown away. It's highly unlikely that your tyres are spinning on the rim but the strong possibility remains that there is a burr on the inside edge of the rim 'ole remains.


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## dellzeqq (1 Dec 2011)

excuse me if I've missed something upthread, but have you changed from Schrader to Presta?

If not, then I'm afraid that I reckon that there is wear or some small damage around the hole in rim, and, while changing the rimtape might help (I had a similar problem, and I've 'fixed' it by using two rimtapes, a woven and a 'plastic' one on top of the other) you might be looking at a new rim.......


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## HLaB (1 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> I put it to you that you are failing to seat the valve, and /or using the useless screw on valve lock rings which come with the inner tubes and which must be thrown away. It's highly unlikely that your tyres are spinning on the rim but the strong possibility remains that there is a burr on the inside edge of the rim 'ole remains.


It may be coincidence but the twice I've had valves snap was when I was using those valve lock rings. I don't use them any more and it hasn't happened again. The other thing I use now is talc inside the rim, it perhaps allows for a wee bit of movement in the tyre without snagging the tube.


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> I put it to you that you are failing to seat the valve, and /or using the useless screw on valve lock rings which come with the inner tubes and which must be thrown away. It's highly unlikely that your tyres are spinning on the rim but the strong possibility remains that there is a burr on the inside edge of the rim 'ole remains.


 
I've tried both using the useless screw AND throwing away the useless screw. It happens whatever one I use.

Regarding the burr on the inside of the rim 'ole, I've felt for this and nothing is there. Also remember I cycled with this rim for 4 years and never had this problem even once in that time so that would suggest the rim hole is fine , non? Also I've tried making all sorts of protective padding out of old inner tubes around this area, but the valve / tube slits even though these protective pads I've engineered seem to survive without a mark.

The quest continues, bought 4 Specialized inner tubes at lunch break, and a track pump to eliminate the actual inflating action as the cause. Let's see how long these last :-/


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## ianrauk (1 Dec 2011)

It only needs the tiniest of burs to puncture an inner. Sometimes even too small to feel with your fingers.


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## mickle (1 Dec 2011)

Yeahbut. Are you seating the valve?


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> Yeahbut. Are you seating the valve?


 
@ mickle: As this has been doing my head in for some time now, I've become a bit compulsive during the whole reinflate process. I use the locknut to hold the halve and only tighten down very gently about halfway just to keep the valve visible for inflating. I very gradually inflate checking the seating of the tyre all along the rim and that the valve remains perfectly perpendicular throughout the process. Can you expand a bit on what you mean by seating the valve? Is there another step I've been missing in my 30 years of fixing punctures  . Never too old to learn something new I say.


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## mickle (1 Dec 2011)

Forgive me if any of this is teaching you how to suck eggs.

The valve stem is attached to a disc or rubber which in turn is attached to the 'body' of the tube. This disc can become trapped under the bead of the tyre unless the valve is seated.

Put one bead on to the rim.
Partially inflate the tube just enough that it retains its shape.
Pull the tyre back to expose the valve hole and insert the valve.
Fold the second bead over the tube and insert the tube into the tyre all the way round.
Starting opposite the valve gently work the second bead onto the rim (you might need to let some air out).
When the bead is within the rim all the way round push the valve through from the outside to ensure that the aforementioned rubber disc isn't trapped under the bead.
Partially inflate the tyre with just enough pressure for it to take its shape, remove the pump and check all around the tyre that its seated correctly.

You'll need to push down on the back of the valve _through the tyre_ to get the pump head on securely. So at no point is there any need for the valve washer. Throw it away as soon as ithe tube leaves the box.

Inflate to preferred pressure.

And this: http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mickles-tip-of-the-day-inner-tubes.85634/


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## jonathanw (1 Dec 2011)

I wish I'd come here sooner.

I had a similar problem 6 months ago. I always assumed that as the lock rings came with the tube that they should be used. Well after a similar problem to that which the OP has outlined, I stopped using them as I was reading Mark Beaumonts Americas book, and he said he'd also had the same problem because the locking was causing the valve tube interface to come under tension with a fully laden bike. Now I know better and don't use them anymore, and have not had the problem since, but I suspect this may not be the simple answer in this case.


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## byegad (1 Dec 2011)

giantxtc said:


> So are you saying that some wheels will simply damage tubes? Thing is I rode this bike for 4 years without a hitch. Then since getting a regular puncture one time, all susequent tubes have failed at the base of the presta valve stem, splitting the rubber right at the bottom.


 

Then it's not the rim shape. Mine was new and tubes lasted anything from a few months to twenty minutes and it always went with a bang. Interesting at 30mph downhill with a lorry alongside!


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

byegad said:


> Then it's not the rim shape. Mine was new and tubes lasted anything from a few months to twenty minutes and it always went with a bang. Interesting at 30mph downhill with a lorry alongside!


 
Yes byegad, the 30 mph blow out whilst neck and neck with a double decker is exactly what I'm sh*tting myself is going to happen


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> Forgive me if any of this is teaching you how to suck eggs.
> 
> The valve stem is attached to a disc or rubber which in turn is attached to the 'body' of the tube. This disc can become trapped under the bead of the tyre unless the valve is seated.
> 
> ...


 
No worries about teaching to suck eggs, at this stage I'm willing to accept any opinions. Having thoroughly read your post I can say that I am seating the valve correctly. I partially inflate , I ensure the rubber disc is not trapped under the tyre beads, and I inflate gradually and continually check seating of tyre as I do.

Here's a pic I just took of yesterdays failed valve. It's exactly the same as the other ten, The valve splits away from the tube rubber disc and this is ALWAYS perpendicular to the direction of rotation.


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## mickle (1 Dec 2011)

I don't bloody know then.


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## HovR (1 Dec 2011)

What sort of pressure are you inflating the tires to? At this point, I think I'm just as confused as you are.


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## giantxtc (1 Dec 2011)

The only thing I can think of is something to do with the rim hole as it's always at the same point. I've just furiously attacked rim hole with emery paper and it's now as rounded and smooth as can be. Will see how it goes tomorrow.

Really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks, will let you know how I get on.


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## dellzeqq (2 Dec 2011)

go to schrader valves. Those tubes are being pushed through the hole. XM317s will take schraders


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## albion (2 Dec 2011)

Mini hand pumps - I learnt my lesson and will possibly never use them again. Its not fun when you snap your 2 valves in one day!

I have gone back to my traditional Blumen of Zefal pump with a screw on tube .
Methinks a very expensive hand pump will put less strain on the valve but I'm happy with a bit less maximum pressure on puncture day.


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## PpPete (2 Dec 2011)

mickle said:


> I don't bloody know then.


 
What ? 
First time for everything I suppose....

Looking at that picture I would suggest that DZ guessed right yesterday.


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## Svendo (2 Dec 2011)

I had a couple of problems with valve seat failures this summer when my D_A C24s were new on the rear. Led to an embarassing 'used both spare tubes, had to beg for another' incident 20 miles from home. No sign of a particular burr or sharp edge on valve hole, but gave it a gentle sand anyway and not had a problem since over probably 1500 miles.


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## albion (2 Dec 2011)

It is really the pump with the tiniest ones often needing a manic method to get anywhere blowing the tyre up.
The physical action of it just yanks the valve both sideways and up. An inner screw might just help but that gives other problems too.

I initially blamed cheap inner tubes until expensive Michelin tubes did same.
My turbo morph pump also has a valve saving extension tube but at 330 grams it is 200 grams heavier than my zefal..


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## zacklaws (2 Dec 2011)

I had this problem a while back and I found it was the locking nut on the valve being to tight and ripping the valve out of the tyre, but as you have tried with and without locking nuts, it rules it out.

Alternatively, when you fit the tyre, are you pushing the valve up into the tyre and looking to see that you are not trapping the inner tube with the tyre against the rim in the valve location before you pump it up. This is one reason why I like long valves as it easier to push the inner tube up into the tyre, some short ones on a slightly deepish rim are not long enough to push in far enough


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## byegad (3 Dec 2011)

Maybe a collar made from an old tyre, the exact bit you are showing in your picture dropped over the valve might stop it pushing off like that.


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## Alien8 (3 Dec 2011)

I've had a couple (one front, one back) of Vittorias split at the valve over the last few weeks. They were spares that I reckon must have been at least 5-years old - I have wondered about inner tube degradation over time. Prior to that I can't remember it happening to me before.


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## MacB (3 Dec 2011)

Well I use the locking ring on all mine and have never had this problem, though would never do them up tightly, just tight enough to ensure no rattling.

If the rim is drilled for schraeder then I would expect to use a litle rubber gromit thing in the valve hole along with a presta tube. All of my rims came with this fitted and I would need to remove it to fit in a schraeder valve. Without this I can see that pressure would start to force the rubber base of the valve into the hole. The gromit provides the same sort of protection as you've been trying to make via rubber washers.

If that is the case then I'd fit a gromit and also fit new rim tape, I like Velox. It's feasible that this has only started to happen recently as the hole in the rim tape has become slightly enlarged, or off centre, over time.

If this is not the case then I have no idea.


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## giantxtc (6 Dec 2011)

Well I thought I would report back on this one as there were so many helpful suggestions to the cause of my problem. I've been riding for 5 days now without a problem, which compared to my recent puncture rate is quite a breakthrough. Fingers crossed I think the problem has been solved.

As suggested by a couple of board members, I smoothed off the hole in the rim with emery paper, so much in fact that it practically had a radius on it when I was finished. It seem's to have done the trick and I'm well and truly back in the saddle. Even though there was no burr, it seems the hole itself may have been cutting the tube away from the valve under pressure.

Thanks to anyone who lent a suggestion as I was going crazy with this one.


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## PaulSB (14 Jan 2015)

Well my son has this problem so I have a happy evening ahead studying all of these suggestions!

I suspect his problem is not seating the valve correctly.


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## Gravity Aided (14 Jan 2015)

I've never run across this problem, but I use the lock ring. Although I always filed the valve hole in the rim, and went over it with sandpaper, because I had a similar problem many years ago. It seems odd to me that a bicycle wheel works as well as it does, given all the things that could go wrong with them.


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## PatrickPending (14 Jan 2015)

think its been mentioned earlier - those pumps where you put the end of the pump on the valve - you need to be careful or you can experience the symptom you describe. I personally prefer something like a top peak road morph for this very reason. The tube between the pump and the valve eliminates or drastically reduces stresses on the valve whilst pumping.


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## Banjo (14 Jan 2015)

I had exactly the same problem with a hybrid bike a few years ago.really frustrating.I am convinced that the tyres were moving on the rim when braking ripping the valve stem.try marking the tyre and rim to see if this is happening.I dont remembr how I fixed it tbh.


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## PaulSB (16 Jan 2015)

I've found this thread a great help over the last few days as I attempt to solve the same problem on my lad's rear wheel. In common with the original poster the wheel has been fine for years and over recent months four valves have split horizontally at the base. The wheel is a DRC touring and on investigation I see it is a "double" construction, i.e. there is effectively an inner and out wheel with a gap between the two - don't know what this is correctly called. It's clear the valve has been splitting where the valve base is in contact with the inner section.

To date I've carefully cleaned and smoothed the hole in both sections and then used three layers of electrical tape, on the inner section, to cover the metal edges to protect against any remaining rough edges and help the valve seat more securely, but not rigidly, in the hole. Though I think I know how to fit a tube I've paid special attention to comments here and especially ensuring the valve is correctly seated inside the tyre after fitting. I've also talced the tube. I've educated my son in all of this to be sure he changes his tubes correctly.

The wheel has been serviced, new bearings, re-greased etc and trued. This needed doing and hopefully helps to eliminate the unlikely(?) possibility the wheel was somehow stressing the valve.

We will be testing the outcome this weekend.

The last question I have is re the "useless" locking screw. What are the arguments for and against? I've always used them when the tube is supplied with one but when not haven't. Logic says if the manufacturer supplies the screw and threads the valve the producer believes they have a value?

Would like to have opinions before deciding which way to jump on this issue.


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## DWiggy (16 Jan 2015)

A little advise from my own experience:
Get a track pump for home to inflate without stressing the valve out, as 100+ psi it hard to do with a hand pump without stressing the valve.
Co2 for repairs on the road..it's just altogether faster & easier!
Don't use the screws that you get with the inner tubes, you might be over tightening them and when inflating you could be putting the base of the tube under stress.
Use Velo rim tape and get rid of the old tape/band, this stuff is super cheap and really worth changing.

Hope this helps


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## DWiggy (16 Jan 2015)

...also the velo rim tape should stop the tube from moving around.


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## PaulSB (16 Jan 2015)

Thanks Dwiggy. I've always used a track pump but my son, who no longer lives at home, doesn't have one. I bought him one this week as I think over vigorous use of the hand pump is the most likely cause.

I'll lok for some velo rim tape. Tyre off AGAIN!!


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