# Anyone know anything about electric bikes?



## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

A friend's just asked if I know anything about them (there's lots of hills round here) and I don't. Do you? Any hints, tips, recommendations, words of wisdom much appreciated.


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## Pale Rider (9 Oct 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> A friend's just asked if I know anything about them (there's lots of hills round here) and I don't. Do you? Any hints, tips, recommendations, words of wisdom much appreciated.



That a bit like asking does anyone know anything about ordinary bikes - too general a question to answer in a forum post.

Whereabouts is friend?

There are now ebike dealers in many areas of the country, so it might be simplest to send him/her into a shop to have a look/chat/test ride.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Oct 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> *A friend's just asked if I know anything about them* (there's lots of hills round here) and I don't. Do you? Any hints, tips, recommendations, words of wisdom much appreciated.


Yeah, right.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

Well I guess I was hoping someone might be able to give some personal experience of one: 'I've had one for two years and blah de blah.' Or even, 'I don't have one, but a Which report said the ones to look at are the blah, the blah and the blah.' I dunno. Anything really. Someone who knows more than me. More than bugger all, in other words.


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## Andy_R (9 Oct 2014)

By electric, I assume you mean electric assist bikes. I work with a team that uses them to encourage people to cycle to meetings from our main offices, we also use them to encourage people who are seriously unfit to start a gentle form of exercise and for those with hip/knee problems who would find some aspects of ordinary cycle use uncomfortable or downright painful. The bikes are simple to use - generally a controller on the handlebars which the user sets the amount of effort provided by the battery and the gearing range. Effort is usally 1-3; 1 for minimum input from battery and motor, 3 maximum. "Gearing" is usually something like "Eco", "Touring", "Sport", "Turbo".

Scott do some very nice hybrid style ones, but the most comon style is the sit up and beg type

Whilst they are not everyone's cup of tea, we've found they are huge fun


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## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Yeah, right.


I'm not sure I like the tone of your boldening, you brazen hussy, how very dare you. Her name is Amanda. Mine isn't. So there.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

Andy_R said:


> By electric, I assume you mean electric assist bikes. I work with a team that uses them to encourage people to cycle to meetings from our main offices, we also use them to encourage people who are seriously unfit to start a gentle form of exercise and for those with hip/knee problems who would find some aspects of ordinary cycle use uncomfortable or downright painful. The bikes are simple to use - generally a controller on the handlebars which the user sets the amount of effort provided by the battery and the gearing range. Effort is usally 1-3; 1 for minimum input from battery and motor, 3 maximum. "Gearing" is usually something like "Eco", "Touring", "Sport", "Turbo".
> 
> Scott do some very nice hybrid style ones, but the most comon style is the sit up and beg type
> 
> Whilst they are not everyone's cup of tea, we've found they are huge fun


Yeah - them's the fellers. I just did a wee bit o' googling & Kalkhoff seems to be one name that comes up. Like bikes, but with batteries.


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## Andy_R (9 Oct 2014)

also popular are IZIP - TBH they're all much of a muchness but the Scott design has the motor attached to the bottom bracket not in the wheel hub and seems a lot quieter. Hub motors can make wheel changes a bugger if you puncture though.


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## bikepete (9 Oct 2014)

I run Electric Bike Magazine and have personally reviewed something over 60 electric bikes so far... all issues are free online.
Short answer is go to a proper e-bike specialist dealer (e.g. one of these) who stock bikes from several different brands and take their advice. Try to get test rides on the different types explained below.

The main distinctions are:

First in the way the motor is controlled:

- 'Rotation sensor': the cheapest and simplest. A sensor just checks that you are pedalling (forwards) and after a turn or so of the pedals the motor will kick in and attempt to accelerate you towards the 15 mph motor cut-out limit (or less if you choose a lower level on the controller). There is no need to put effort into the pedalling, you can just wave your feet about. Many of these bikes for the UK market have a throttle, so you can apply the motor whenever you want, pedalling or not. That is handy to overcome the inital delay of the motor kicking in. 

- 'Torque sensor' - a sensor measures your pedal pressure and instantaneously matches it with the motor. It's rather like power steering on a car - your efforts are amplified but it still feels very natural. So it feels just like normal cycling but with superhuman legs. You are also forced to contribute: it only gives out max power when you're putting in a decent effort. The one to choose if you value the natural cycling feel or want to retain fitness. Very few have a throttle option though so not good for those who (for illness or whatever) may need a 'just pull me home' option.

Choice between the two is personal preference, though typically 'cyclists' will prefer the (typically more pricey) torque sensor bikes. There are just a few models coming through which attempt to offer both control modes or the 'best of both' but most still fall very much into one or the other type. 

And secondly, in the type of motor:

- geared hub motor: usually a bit noisy, but compact and can be good on hills. Available at all price points. Usually 'rotation sensor' control, sometimes with a throttle.

- 'direct drive' hub motor (no gears): typically completely silent and very smooth. Can be a bit bulky, a tad heavier and not great for the steepest of hills. Almost always rear wheel mounted and almost always torque sensor control, although some have optional add-on throttles.

- Crank drive, also known as mid motor or bottom bracket motor. Always torque sensors, no throttles (as designed for EU market where throttles aren't allowed). Usually geared but noise levels are quite low. By driving the chainring, the electric assist works through the bike's gears which means this type can be great on hills and off-road (just gear down for ever more torque at ever lower speeds) but that also means that the power is going through chain and cogs, so it's hard on transmissions. Another plus is that front and rear wheels are standard, no motors to disconnect, so punctures etc are less daunting (though almost all hub motors just have a simple connector). This type tend to be pricey (1700ish upwards) but the crank drive units have a good reputation for reliability. Bosch are most popular but Kalkhoff do a good system too called 'Impulse' and there are also systems from Panasonic, Yamaha and Shimano (among others) just coming to market.

Personally I like the silence of a direct drive hub motor but again it's personal preference.

Any questions just ask.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Well I guess I was hoping someone might be able to give some personal experience of one: 'I've had one for two years and blah de blah.' Or even, 'I don't have one, but a Which report said the ones to look at are the blah, the blah and the blah.' I dunno. Anything really. Someone who knows more than me. More than bugger all, in other words.


Believe @Sara_H may be able to comment


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## Sara_H (9 Oct 2014)

I've got an electric bike. When I was deciding which to choose I used the pedalecs forum.
The members there are very knowledgeable, friendly and helpful. Lots of dealers posting and advertising too, so your fiend may be able to find a local dealer on there also.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/


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## slowmotion (9 Oct 2014)

Sara_H said:


> I've got an electric bike. When I was deciding which to choose I used the pedalecs forum.
> The members there are very knowledgeable, friendly and helpful. Lots of dealers posting and advertising too, so your fiend may be able to find a local dealer on there also.
> 
> http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/


 Do they spend endless hours arguing about helmets on that forum or are they compulsory on an ebike?


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## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

Fantastic! Many thanks all, especially bikepete - that's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. And Sara H. I shall pass on your messages to my friend and suggest she checks out your links.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Oct 2014)

User13710 said:


> You can retrofit some systems to a bike you already have, with a rebuilt wheel. I know a few older cyclists who have kept going on their treasured bikes by doing this.
> 
> If the person is at all disabled, beware of systems that require you to pedal off before the motor kicks in. It means you can't get going if you stop on a hill. I have a friend who made that mistake with his first electric bike and it was no help to him really.


Thanks, no she's not disabled at all. It's just that like I say, there's a lot of hills round here, one of which is directly between where she lives and works - after a hard working day a bit of a 'helping hand' would make all the difference.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Oct 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> And Sara H. I shall pass on your messages to my friend and suggest she checks out your links.



*_Snigger*_


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## swee'pea99 (10 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> *_Snigger*_


Is something amusing you boy? Don't keep it to yourself, stand up and share it with the rest of the class. STAND UP!


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## Smokin Joe (10 Oct 2014)

swee'pea99 said:


> Is something amusing you boy? Don't keep it to yourself, stand up and share it with the rest of the class. STAND UP!


It wasn't me sir, honest. It was that Slowmotion sir, he's always doing it...


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## Accy cyclist (11 Oct 2014)

All i know is that i've seen some unhealthy people i know moving pretty quickly on them, and that they weigh a ton!


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

The advice above is all sound, however the problem that can arise is repair

MAny machines use the ubiquitous Bafang "Fun8" motor, in which case there is no issue, but as you go for more specialised units it is more difficult to obtain repairs or parts

Some dealers only repair / service bikes they have sold

For this reason it may be that you end up with a limited range of choice


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

slowmotion said:


> Do they spend endless hours arguing about helmets on that forum or are they compulsory on an ebike?



Only electrically powered ones


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## subaqua (11 Oct 2014)

don't try and race them . I ragged my self to catch this old girl on a town bike. then when i did catch up at the lights I realised it was an electric one. 

if i get that i can't pedal fully i might get one


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

The other thing you need to consider is the type as explained by @bikepete

If the main need is to provide power due to weak legs, or poor endurance then a throttle is fine, however if you want to retain a modicum of fitness then the torque sensor is better

In my wife's case we bought a BIonx powered bike as we found the ability to have no power, or to dial in 25,50,100 or 200 percent additional input from teh engine atthe press of a button

Hence if things are going well then you just ride the machine, but as you are feeling tired, or come to a hill then just switch the motor in


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## bikepete (11 Oct 2014)

slowmotion said:


> Do they spend endless hours arguing about helmets on that forum or are they compulsory on an ebike?





Cunobelin said:


> Only electrically powered ones



Just in case anyone didn't pick up on it, this is humour :-)

Legally, in the UK e-bikes are treated exactly the same as normal bikes as far as helmets are concerned. So no, helmets are not compulsory.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Oct 2014)

bikepete said:


> Just in case anyone didn't pick up on it, this is humour :-)
> 
> Legally, in the UK e-bikes are treated exactly the same as normal bikes as far as helmets are concerned. *So no, helmets are not compulsory.*



Oh God no, I can see where this is going...


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Oh God no, I can see where this is going...



We coold always looks at the *current* state of affairs, prepare ourselves for some *battery* and hope the discussion is more _*electrifying*_ than usual


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## Smokin Joe (11 Oct 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> We coold always looks at the *current* state of affairs, prepare ourselves for some *battery* and hope the discussion is more _*electrifying*_ than usual


It wouldn't be long before someone blew a fuse and we ended up with another shocking thread.


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## welsh dragon (11 Oct 2014)

That is truly awful gentlemen.


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> That is truly awful gentlemen.



You expected quality?


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

On second thoughts.......

Don't answer that


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## welsh dragon (11 Oct 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> You expected quality?



Of course not gentlemen. Tell you what, why don't you stop looking at this thread and listen to some music. How about AC/DC


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Of course not gentlemen. Tell you what, why don't you stop looking at this thread and listen to some music. How about AC/DC



You are sinking to our level!


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## welsh dragon (11 Oct 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> You are sinking to our level!




What. Me? Never. That isn't possible.


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## welsh dragon (11 Oct 2014)

Ive seen a number of ebikes and to be honest how on earth do you go about choosing one is the hardest thing I think, especiwly when you consider that some are quite expensive. What type of motor would last the longest? Is there a lot of differance between them as far as the life of each of them?


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

Funnily enough it tends to be battery problems rather than motor issues causing problems


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## Accy cyclist (14 Oct 2014)

There's an elderly bloke i know of who's had an electric bike for around 15 years. I saw him yesterday on what looked like a brand spanking new one. I was going to ask him about it but he flew past as such a speed that by the time i'd got down my ladder he was a hundred yards up the road!


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## brand (14 Oct 2014)

I need one desperately for pulling a trailer, specially now as I can't stand up on the hills. I have missed out on wood, apples etc. I once did 5 journeys to pick up wood 50 miles total. What a pathetic pile of wood I had compared to the other option....sharing with a man with a van.
Now power assist would have made it much easier. 2 batteries I could have gone all day. One day I will bid a price on eBay for a Kalkhoff in perfect condition that stands some chance of winning. As of yet £200 bid has not done it!


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## raleighnut (14 Oct 2014)

I've fitted an electric front wheel kit to the trike for hill climbing that's the same as Maz's (arthritic knees) and think this is a better way if you have a bike you like. The kit hardly changes the appearance of the original so they don't look like the earlier ugly things but that seems to be changing as makers see what others are doing (some are still pig-ugly though)
As for the town/sit-up style of bikes IMO they are the perfect vehicle to convert or buy and I much prefer the front wheel to be the assist wheel (where poss)
Personally I can't wait for snow and ice, should be fun on the trike. (might even put slicks on  just have to get some more dosh than I get now)


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## Phil Fouracre (14 Oct 2014)

Never thought I'd be singing their praises, but, had one for two years now and it is great. Had a bad accident and surgeon said I'd be able to cycle before I could walk. Perfect for anyone who wants to cycle, but, for whatever reason can't manage. Have a BH Neo city and can't fault it.


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## Vdero (9 Jan 2016)

swee'pea99 said:


> A friend's just asked if I know anything about them (there's lots of hills round here) and I don't. Do you? Any hints, tips, recommendations, words of wisdom much appreciated.


Hi
As a newbie I would like to tell my story, I have a Specialised Crosstrail hybrid and as I am 6'3" it is a 58 cm frame, this suits me and is comfortable, but now at 73 and having had both knees replaced I was finding that my riding was getting painful and no longer enjoyable,the hills around here in South Wales were getting hard work and I found myself making excuses not to go out.
So the alternative I thought was to give up cycling or investigate an Electric bike, I found that the ready made bikes were not to my taste and also very expensive considering that I was about to purchase two bikes, as my wife was also not enjoying riding as much.
So the next step was convert my Crosstrail ( my wife has the same bike but a ladies frame) as we both find them comfortable having fitted stem extensions and the very comfortable Butterfly handlebars also I like having hydraulic brakes to slow me down when I go quite swiftly downhill (my weight aids this!) after spending hours searching I decided to drive to Cyclotricity near Aldershot I took my bike with me to ensure that the front wheel conversion would in fact fit my Front suspension forks and clear the hydraulic calipers

after confirming that it should be ok I ordered 2 front 250w conversions with the larger batteries which fit in the supplied rear rack.
Two weeks later they arrived and the fun began, as I am a little particular it took about 4 days to fit both bikes and route the wiring as neat as possible using lots of cable ties!, I am very pleased with the quality of these kits all connections are colour coded so you cannot make mistakes.
Well the first ride was amazing I went out looking for all the hills which I had avoided before,as I elected for both a throttle and pedal assist You still have to pedal but I was now using much higher gears and was easily riding at 12 to 15 mph and the "granny" gear has not been used!
So I am now out most days and riding about 25-35 miles, considering the bad weather at the moment the cold is making me go home rather than going further, also my knees are feeling better as I still have to pedal!
Now waiting for the better weather and in May we are away for 2 weeks cycling in Holland

My feeling is it was either give up cycling and sit watching TV all day or spend 1000.00 for 2 conversions and continue riding it just makes sense, and it is NOT cheating

Ken


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## raleighnut (10 Jan 2016)

Both Maz and have those Cyclotricity kits (fitted by me) they are reasonable quality and excellent for the price


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## Dogtrousers (19 Jan 2016)

Not sure that this warrants a thread of its own

A chap rides a bike with a concealed electric motor up Box Hill, and cogitates upon "mechanical doping" professionally and in sportives etc.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8c89e112-...cles_share/share_link_article_email/editorial

_The bike I had come to try is the first concealed-motor racing bike from a UK manufacturer. Built by Somerset-based Electric Mountain Bikes, it will be launched this month under the company’s new brand, Goat Bikes, and will sell for £4,049.
_
http://www.goatbikes.com/


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## steveindenmark (29 Jan 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Do they spend endless hours arguing about helmets on that forum or are they compulsory on an ebike?



No they dont, no they are not.

They seem to be more mature than people on some forums and the word hxxmet is not deleted every time you post it in case a fight breaks out.


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## steveindenmark (29 Jan 2016)

Jannie and I had our Electric bikes for about 3 years before passing them onto friends who still use them in the summer. Mine was a Tonaro Enduro and Jannies was. Tonaro Compy . We bought them for a bit of fun, and they certainly were. I sometimes used mine for my 40km commute in the summer. My route is undulating and it made getting to work a lot easier than a road bike. We would make picnics at the weekends and ride for miles without any effort. At the same time we would still be riding our road bikes during the week.

Now some say it is cheating. But who is being cheated? Thats like a Koga World Traveller owner like myself saying to a road bike rider, that they are cheating. A bike is a bike is a bike, as far as I am concerned. If you are out on a bike, its OK by me.

Electric bikes are very popular in Denmark. The Danes dont have this macho image of cycling. They are ridden by the whole range of the community from school children to pensioners. They are not advertised for use only by the aged or infirm in Denmark, but by everybody.

We really enjoyed ours but were running out of space for bikes and motorbikes and so they had to go, along with the ICE trike. We do miss them and a couple more could be on the cards quite soon.


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## Jimmy Doug (30 Jan 2016)

Here's something I've wanted to ask for a long time. Hopefully some knowlegeable chappy/chapess can answer. The trouble with electric motorisation is the physical cost of running it. I don't mean money, but effort. Electric bikes have dirty, great batteries, weigh a ton, and some are recharged by turning the pedals. They must be great when you've got a full charge and you need that extra hand. But is the extra physical effort needed to move these heavy bikes and recharge them (if they are recharged by pedalling) outweigh that assistance? I guess so, but I've often wondered.
Ps - I'll never forget seeing one flying past me as I was fighting my way up the Gallibier once. It was carrying a lady well in her sixties. I thought: thanks to these bikes, this mountain is open to anyone who fancies cycling up it. That can only be a good thing.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jan 2016)

Recharging by pedalling - called regen in ebike circles - is a pointless gimmick.

You cannot use the assistance and also generate surplus power, if you could it would be equivalent to perpetual motion and all energy would be free.

Regen is something people like to think works, so some makers offer it, although the more reputable ones such as Bosch do not.

You can generate a tiny bit of power freewheeling down hills, although the system will act as brake so you are descending more slowly.

Again, no useful amount of power can be generated because you will only be regenerating for at most a few minutes during a ride.

Plugging the battery into the more powerful home charger for a few minutes will not charge it to any noticeable degree.


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## Jimmy Doug (31 Jan 2016)

Thanks for the explanation. My car has regen (Prius) and it definetely works there. I was very sceptical of it before I'd seen for myself how efficent it is. Bicycles are a totally different matter, I guess. For one thing, the Prius has a hell of a lot of momentum and can freewheel for a heck of a distance, recharging the battery as it goes. Also, car brakes generate a huge amount of heat.


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## RichardB (31 Jan 2016)

As Pale Rider says, regen on an ebike is a bit of a pointless idea. If you can ride along and regenerate as you go, why not dispense with all the gubbins and just have a normal bike? You can't compare it to a car. My Wisper is a heavy old bus, and the one time the battery ran out on mine (error on my part, failed to fully charge it) I had to push it up a steep hill near my home as I simply could not pedal it. 20% hill, 37" bottom gear and 26 kg of bike and battery (not to mention the rider) were an impossible combination. I was very unfit then; I might do better now.

Although it's heavy, it flies along when it is in the mood. The benefit for me is on the hills. On the flat, I am pedalling at over the 15 mph cut-off, so I'm not getting any assistance. On the hills, it's like a giant hand on the back of your saddle, just helping you along. I would estimate that a hill that I can climb at 4-5 mph unassisted, I ascend at 8-9 mph on the ebike. It's still work, but for me it made the difference between cycling and not cycling. Commuting was going to be my route back to health and fitness, but with a hilly 13 miles each way, it was not possible for me on a normal bike. After a year on the ebike, I had lost weight and gained fitness, and now I am planning on switching to my normal bike full-time. I have rediscovered the pure joy of getting out on a bike and covering the miles. I don't think it's exaggerating to say that the ebike saved my life. Without it, I would still be sitting on the sofa, 5 stone overweight, pre-diabetic, wondering if I would ever be able to bike to work ever again. It's not a pushbike, but it certainly isn't cheating either. Horses for courses.


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## Transporterman (10 Feb 2016)

We love our electric bikes. We started off with an 'Ecoped' about 15 years ago which was really just a professionally converted road bike with a front hub motor. Since then we have quite a few Giant Lafree's. I used to buy up bit's (motors batteries or wrecks and do them up for family and friends. My wife still has a Lafree which she won't part with but although we are often up on Bodmin and Dartmoor it probably is more suited to more sedate riding. But it has never caused any problems.

Now I have a Kalkhoff which is great and goes like a bomb. It has a Shimano Nexus 7 speed rear hub. I know some people change the front sprocket to gear it a little higher. If you want to do very big hills you still have to put effort in but it's just like being 30 years fitter. 

This was on the High Peak trail.









A brace of Lafree's on Dartmoor.


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## Jimmy Doug (10 Feb 2016)

Podge said:


> We love our electric bikes. We started off with an 'Ecoped' about 15 years ago which was really just a professionally converted road bike with a front hub motor. Since then we have quite a few Giant Lafree's. I used to buy up bit's (motors batteries or wrecks and do them up for family and friends. My wife still has a Lafree which she won't part with but although we are often up on Bodmin and Dartmoor it probably is more suited to more sedate riding. But it has never caused any problems.
> 
> Now I have a Kalkhoff which is great and goes like a bomb. It has a Shimano Nexus 7 speed rear hub. I know some people change the front sprocket to gear it a little higher. If you want to do very big hills you still have to put effort in but it's just like being 30 years fitter.



They look very good - starting to look like real bikes  How much do they weigh? Are they hard work when there's no charge left?


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## Transporterman (10 Feb 2016)

Both the Lafree (now sadly obsolete but available second hand) and the Kalkhoff weigh about 21kg. If you go for the larger amp hour battery on the Kalkhoff it weighs an extra kilo or so. You can pedal them pretty easily with a flat battery although it wouldn't be great fun up very steep long hills but you wouldn't be stuck unlike some of the really heavy e bikes.

I did have a cheapo (£399) Cyclomatic for a while but the quality was fairly poor. Also it was throttle-only which is nowhere near as nice to ride as a pedalec bike with a crank motor. I probably wouldn't have an e bike if I was a fit twenty year old with perfect knees but we go everywhere including moors, dales, canal tow paths. You still puff up the biggest hills but cycling is fun again so you can't wait to plan the next ride.


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## Jimmy Doug (10 Feb 2016)

Podge said:


> Both the Lafree (now sadly obsolete but available second hand) and the Kalkhoff weigh about 21kg. If you go for the larger amp hour battery on the Kalkhoff it weighs an extra kilo or so. You can pedal them pretty easily with a flat battery although it wouldn't be great fun up very steep long hills but you wouldn't be stuck unlike some of the really heavy e bikes.
> 
> I did have a cheapo (£399) Cyclomatic for a while but the quality was fairly poor. Also it was throttle-only which is nowhere near as nice to ride as a pedalec bike with a crank motor. I probably wouldn't have an e bike if I was a fit twenty year old with perfect knees but we go everywhere including moors, dales, canal tow paths. You still puff up the biggest hills but cycling is fun again so you can't wait to plan the next ride.


This is very interesting. I've been thinking about getting an ebike for a while so that I can cycle to work more often. I might also be able to persuade my wife to cycle more if she had one of these. Definitely worth looking into one of these models. There's a dealer not too far from here.


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## raleighnut (10 Feb 2016)

Still think that the conversion kits are better value as you can fit them to pretty much any level/type of bike for around £500, plus you can convert back or move the kit onto another bike easily.
This is a kit fitted to my trike but it can be swapped to any 26" wheel bike













trike 4



__ raleighnut
__ 19 Jan 2016






The rack battery was fitted to a couple of brackets I made to avoid 'butchering' it as I intend fitting the kit to an MTB once I'm well/recovered enough to not need the trike.


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## Transporterman (10 Feb 2016)

It's definitely worth try quite a few bikes to see what suits you. I prefer the feel of the pedalec drive but each to his own. I think everyone who isn't getting as much pleasure out of their rides as they used to should try an e bike. As long as they are confident on a normal bike they will be amazed at how much fun they are.


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## Helenbells (12 Feb 2016)

When I returned to cycling, I had to have an electric bike, because my illness prevented me from using my Claud Butler Claudette.
I looked for, and bought, an electric bike that looks like a bike. 
Although I can only ride it when I am well enough, it has given me back my freedom. In addition I can ride off road, which I could not do with my Claudette. 
I look at our racers and think, what shall I do with these.


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## jonny jeez (12 Feb 2016)

swee'pea99 said:


> Yeah - them's the fellers. I just did a wee bit o' googling & Kalkhoff seems to be one name that comes up. Like bikes, but with batteries.


Indeed. Kalkhoff seem to be the forerunner in elec bikes from my experience.

Trek do a couple of options but id steer clear as their drive system transfers power in a relatively unsubtle way.

My experience, from testing them all a few years back.;

A centrally mounted battery (like on the seat tube) generates a better centre of gravity and better feel. Rack mounted batteries feel a little heavier. Drive system is extremely important or rather drive transfer...testing is the only way to experience what this means but a trek I rode felt like it wanted to "explode" as the power came on and created a sense of wheelspin in the wet. A friend had an off in a bend that he put down to this.

Recharge times and range are all obvious considerations, halve the range quoted on any bike to get a realistic range.

Bigger sprockets can break the 15moh limit but will halve the range.

Brushless motors (is that the phrase) that don't create friction when not running on power are also important.

Kalkhoff ticks all of these boxes.

My overall personal opinion was that I felt happier riding slower on a non assist bike and getting fitter than being able to ride faster (particularly uphill) on an assist. Also I had a feeling that newer , inexperienced riders might be tempted to ride faster than their skill has had a chance to develop and could cause issues. Again, my mate that had an off is my "evidence" for this, I suspect he was just riding too fast around a wet bend but he may be right, the power may have engaged and thrown out the rear wheel.


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## Transporterman (12 Feb 2016)

Helen - I think a lot of people as they get older or have joint problems think 'oh well, that's it, my cycling days are over, but I hope they will see your post and realise that they don't have to give up, take to the armchair and wait for their first heart attack! I reckon cycling (even assisted cycling) is much better exercise than jogging or gym.

Re the Kalkhoff - Although I enjoyed riding the Giant Lafrees I love my Kalkhoff! It's a quality bike.


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## jonny jeez (12 Feb 2016)

User13710 said:


> You can retrofit some systems to a bike you already have, with a rebuilt wheel. I know a few older cyclists who have kept going on their treasured bikes by doing this.
> 
> If the person is at all disabled, beware of systems that require you to pedal off before the motor kicks in. It means you can't get going if you stop on a hill. I have a friend who made that mistake with his first electric bike and it was no help to him really.



View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S10GMfG2NMY


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## Transporterman (12 Feb 2016)

On my Kalkhoff the power is very smooth there is no likelihood of it throwing you off. I think the crank motors are a nicer ride in that respect. I remember when I had my cheapo Cyclomatic we struggled to ride together because it was an all or nothing kind of power compared to my wife's Lafree.


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## Cubist (13 Feb 2016)

Helenbells said:


> When I returned to cycling, I had to have an electric bike, because my illness prevented me from using my Claud Butler Claudette.
> I looked for, and bought, an electric bike that looks like a bike.
> Although I can only ride it when I am well enough, it has given me back my freedom. In addition I can ride off road, which I could not do with my Claudette.
> I look at our racers and think, what shall I do with these.


Welcome to the forum Helenbells by the way!


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## jonny jeez (13 Feb 2016)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Thanks for the explanation. My car has regen (Prius) and it definetely works there. I was very sceptical of it before I'd seen for myself how efficent it is. Bicycles are a totally different matter, I guess. For one thing, the Prius has a hell of a lot of momentum and can freewheel for a heck of a distance, recharging the battery as it goes. Also, car brakes generate a huge amount of heat.



Keep in mind as well that your Prius also has a huge and powerful petrol generator (engine) that can push the car to speeds where regen can have an effect when the freewheeling or braking occurs. 

Cycle regen is, as @Pale Rider says, is a gimmick on bikes right now.


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## Mossie (20 Mar 2016)

HI,

I've bought an sDuro Haibike Full Nine last September on our cycle to work scheme. Ive used it loads on time on quite rough trails in Scotland. I can't speak too highly of it for both off and on road. In fact I'm so impressed with it that I bought an sDuro Haibike Hard Seven for my wife as well. I'm now going to sell my other non-electric mountain bike because I just don't want to use it anymore, the Haibikes are so much more fun !
I also bought from Germany a tuner FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY !! which takes out the 15mph restriction and it goes like absolute stink when selected, but it does eat up battery power quite noticeably.


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## Pale Rider (20 Mar 2016)

Nice bikes, although you should be aware using one with the derestriction device is illegal, no matter where you use it.

"Off road" is the same as "on road" for this purpose because the public has access to the land in both cases.

Does this illegality matter?

Almost certainly not, assuming you are not concerned about breaking the laws applicable to using an EPAC - electrically assisted pedal cycle.

But if you hit someone with the derestricted bike their case against you will be stronger.

You risk prosecution for using it on the trail/cycle path in the same way someone using a moped or quad bike could be prosecuted.

I've not heard of anyone being prosecuted for using a standard bike derestricted like yours, and they won't send you to prison for it.

In the unlikely event you are caught, confiscation and/or a fine is the most likely.


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## Mossie (20 Mar 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Nice bikes, although you should be aware using one with the derestriction device is illegal, no matter where you use it.
> 
> "Off road" is the same as "on road" for this purpose because the public has access to the land in both cases.
> 
> ...



Yes, point taken. The first bike I got in September came with it fitted by the dealer (UK Dealer) and connected to the light switch, so it is very easy to switch on/off.


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## jim55 (20 Mar 2016)

Mossie said:


> HI,
> 
> I've bought an sDuro Haibike Full Nine last September on our cycle to work scheme.
> 
> ...


How much was this ??


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## Mossie (20 Mar 2016)

jim55 said:


> How much was this ??



Do you mean including the cycle to work scheme ?

That Full Nine was the most expensive at £2600. Our scheme at work was the first £1500. So I got a voucher from work towards the bike. £1500 is deducted from your salary over a year. So depending on how much tax you pay, you get tax relief on the £1500. So for example, if you are a 40% tax payer , a £2600 bike would actually cost you £2000. There are loads of schemes, some better some worse depending on what your employer has signed up for.
That Hard Seven in the picture was about £1800 I think. My mrs got it from Raleigh on interest free credit.
Those are 2016 models, several dealers are still selling 2015 models and they are quite a bit cheaper.


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