# Another cruddy Alex DA22 wheel



## goo_mason (30 Jul 2009)

After recently experiencing an issue with spokes loosening on my rear Aksium, and then finding that the spokes had fused with the spoke nipples, I put a brand new Alex DA22 wheel on until I can get the Aksium respoked.

This Alex wheel was a replacement sent to me by Halfrauds in May 2008, as the original wheel was breaking a spoke a day in the first week I rode the new bike. It's never been used until I put it on three weeks ago.

Well, it's obviously from the same faulty batch of badly-tensioned wheels. I was happily riding along on a flat, smooth stretch this morning when there was a crack, followed by the tell-tale 'ting-ting-ting-ting' sound of the loose spoke hitting off the chainstay. 

Guess I need to get the Aksium into the shop asap. I'd been putting it off as I thought the Alex wheel would last a bit longer. I think I have a few spare Alex-sized spokes in the toolkit to see me through until it's back in good shape.


----------



## e-rider (30 Jul 2009)

I've had bad experiences with factory built Mavic wheels. Never tried Alex though. I now build my own to exacting standards! I do still use mavic rims because I like them and they seem to be pretty good. I tend to use the magic formula of Shimano hubs (always check that the bearings have been greased properly though, shimano like to forget to do this) DT Swiss DB spokes and Mavic Rims - never any problems. I tend to go for high spoke counts (36) as the extra weight isn't an issure to me and it makes for a much stronger wheel and easier to true.
I can build a wheel in about 45 minutes but I then spend about 2 hours getting it absolutely perfect (and I mean absolutely perfect). A shop could never do this as it simply wouldn't be cost effective so they just bang them out quickly. My wheels never need adjusting and I've yet to break a spoke - they are also dead true and round.


----------



## goo_mason (30 Jul 2009)

Well, as I was about to set off from work tonight I noticed the back wheel wouldn't move - turned out to be very badly out of true after the one spoke went; no wonder this morning seemed like really hard work when I was riding with the brake on most of the time !!

I loosened off the rear brake and went to Halfords which is 2 mins ride from work, thinking that I'd better get a spoke just in case I DIDN'T have one at home. Same guy who gave me the free seatpost clamp the other week was on; he tried a few boxes of spokes but none were the right size, so he told me he could cut one to size and re-thread it if I had 10 - 15 minutes spare to wait. I was in no rush so I said that was OK. Well, he prepped a new spoke, got it on the wheel, tightened it up and then removed the wheel and gave it a good truing up in the truing stand. Once again, when he was done he said it was fine and wouldn't take any payment for it.

I know I have a dig at Halfords from time to time, calling them Halfrauds - but this guy has been an absolute star. I'm going to email the company, though I'd better not mention the free parts & labour, to tell them how much I appreciate what he's done for me on more than one occasion. And I'll defo be in with the box of chocs as a thanks next week :-)


----------



## longers (30 Jul 2009)

Sounds like good excellent service from Halfords.

I snapped a spoke for the first time ever on tues, Easton EAfifty rear wheel drive side, I popped to the Local at the time BS and got two of each side thinking that because I was fully loaded I'd get more going. I turned down his offer to fit it thinking I would just pop home and do it. Changed my mind and rode 100k with the wheel only rubbing slightly. Changed it at my leisure the day after.

Not really relevant but it was mildly exciting for me


----------



## goo_mason (31 Jul 2009)

Bah.... another spoke went on the way in this morning. The wheel is doing exactly the same thing as the one it originally replaced; there was obviously a bad batch of spokes / wheels in April 2008.

Yet another non-drive side spoke, broken at the elbow.

Tempted to get a new pair of wheels at the weekend whilst the Aksium is repaired. Then I can bin / sell the Alex ones at work, have the Aksiums as spares and run the new wheels.


----------



## Sittingduck (31 Jul 2009)

Had 2 spokes ping on a fairly new Spesh Globe last year (Rims were Alex Z1000 or something). Replaced under warranty with a brand new wheel of the same model. Within 2 weeks *ping* yup another spoke gone. Handbuilt Mavic fitted by the LBS and never had a problem since!


----------



## goo_mason (31 Jul 2009)

My original wheel was sent back to Halfords HQ for their 'expert wheelbuilder' to rebuild for me. Once they got the wheel back, they managed to lose it and it took over three weeks of chasing to get them to reply and tell me what had happaned (they'd said they'd turn the job around in three days, then stopped replying to my emails asking what the delay was).

In the end, the local Halfords gave me a new wheel - same kind, but from a different bike as it had an 8sp cassette and one of those silly plastic spoke protectors. I never used it once I got it (until now), as I'd bought a set of Aksiums in the interim so's I could get back out on my bike.


----------



## Amanda P (31 Jul 2009)

In a similar vein, I had a lot of trouble with spokes breaking on a tour last year. This was on a wheel I bought for touring, 36 spokes, good quality Quando humbs, Alessa rims.

On our return, I took the wheel to the bike shop to be rebuilt. When I collected the wheel, the guy said "it's a funny wheel to go touring with, 32 spokes". 

It did only have 32 spokes; I'd never counted them or noticed the shortage of spokage...


----------



## Bollo (31 Jul 2009)

The Alex wheels on my old Airnimal Joey (RIP November 2007) were a bugger for broken spokes. I put it down to the unusual size and the lack of market competition to drive the quality up.


----------



## HLaB (31 Jul 2009)

I've only broke one spoke and blown 2 rims (touch wood), they were Alex wheels too!


----------



## jann71 (31 Jul 2009)

I've had trouble with an alex da22 wheel too. Never thought anything of it till starting reading on here. Had to get 14 spokes replaced by LBS, no damage to rim, tyre or tube.


----------



## goo_mason (31 Jul 2009)

I'm glad to see Alex wheels have spoke-snappage issues !

I was beginning to think it was my fault for being a fat git !!


----------



## jann71 (31 Jul 2009)

One minute I was riding along, next minute I was sliding along the tarmac. LBS thought from state of wheel I had been hit by car!


----------



## goo_mason (31 Jul 2009)

jann71 said:


> One minute I was riding along, next minute I was sliding along the tarmac. LBS thought from state of wheel I had been hit by car!



Jeez - that's nasty ! Did all 14 go at the same time ?


----------



## jann71 (31 Jul 2009)

Yip! Don't know if they all went together which is why I came off or after I hit ground. 
Just imagine cycling along at 15mph going straight down and sliding for at least 10m on your knee whilst still attached to the pedal.


----------



## goo_mason (31 Jul 2009)

jann71 said:


> Yip! Don't know if they all went together which is why I came off or after I hit ground.
> Just imagine cycling along at 15mph going straight down and sliding for at least 10m on your knee whilst still attached to the pedal.



I can imagine that - in my early cycling days I came off at around 20mph and slid along on my side for about 3m. That was painful & bad enough (including the custard-like infection I got in my arm and leg afterwards )

Did you think of suing the manufacturer ?


----------



## Mista Preston (2 Aug 2009)

Some advice please. I looked today and both my DA22's are buckled. Is it worth me getting them trued or should I just get a new wheel set?. If so what can I get for around 150-200 quid

thanks


----------



## goo_mason (2 Aug 2009)

Mista Preston said:


> Some advice please. I looked today and both my DA22's are buckled. Is it worth me getting them trued or should I just get a new wheel set?. If so what can I get for around 150-200 quid
> 
> thanks



That's a big question; if they're just buckled and have never started snapping spokes at an alarming rate, you could just get them trued and have many more months / years of wear out of them.

Or you could get tempted and get some new wheels - I got some Mavic Aksiums which are great (although after a year of daily use the rear spokes started loosening and I found that the spokes had welded themselves to the nipples, so they'd just snap when I tightened them and tried to keep the blades straight at the same time. Rear went into the shop today to see if they can rebuild it for me or if I'll need to get a new wheel - at £2 a spoke the cost of labour + re-lacing it might just be too much considering the rims have a year of wear in them too).

I'm sure others will be along soon to advise you; if not, might be worth starting a thread of your own asking for wheel advice - that way it'll get noticed by those not reading this thread about Alex wheels.


----------



## jann71 (2 Aug 2009)

£2 a spoke! I got a good deal then from LBS. 50p a spoke and couple of quid to true the wheel.


----------



## Sittingduck (2 Aug 2009)

^ thats good
Paid the LBS 50p for a spoke and seventeen quid for them, to true a wheel back in December... haven't been back there since!


----------



## GrahamG (3 Aug 2009)

So many arguments for simple hand-built wheels on this thread it's untrue.


----------



## jann71 (3 Aug 2009)

Are handbuilt wheels not really expensive?


----------



## John the Monkey (3 Aug 2009)

MistaPreston, for that sort of budget, it might be worth looking at hand builts (if you have a good builder locally). 

I got a set of DRC18 rims on Tiagra hubs from my LBS for £118 - very pleased with them. The plus of this approach is spec'ing exactly what you want - or giving your requirements to the builder and letting them come up with the best spec for your money. 

I have a set of Aksiums too, but I save them for best.

Regarding your DA22s, the question is what's caused the buckle. If it's the spokes loosening during use, you should be able to true them by retightening the loose ones, and everything will be dandy. There could be more problems if the rim itself is damaged - in this case it could be hard to true the wheel and keep the spoke tension balanced. Uneven spoke tension means that the spokes flex and fatigue at different rates, with some potentially becoming overstressed and snapping (usually at the spoke elbow).


----------



## palinurus (3 Aug 2009)

I replanced some old DA22s on my commute bike with some handbuilts (Open Sport on 105 hubs), made quite a difference. Can't remember the price but less than £200.

Incidently the DA22s came with a road bike I bought and I immediately upgraded them and used them when putting together my commute hack, the rear lasted until the rim wore out- then I retired it. The front finally popped a spoke after a couple of years all-round use. They did me well, but the replacement wheels were very much better.


----------



## goo_mason (3 Aug 2009)

jann71 said:


> £2 a spoke! I got a good deal then from LBS. 50p a spoke and couple of quid to true the wheel.



Was that for the Mavic bladed spokes ? I had to get mine online as not a single shop in the area had any in stock at the time.


----------



## goo_mason (4 Aug 2009)

Well, the result from the bike shop is that the Aksium isn't worth rebuilding; almost all the spokes are corroded in the spoke nipples so would need cut out and replaced. Those aero spokes are expensive. In addition, they say that there are cracks starting around the spoke holes, so the rim's on its way out too. They're selling new sets of Aksiums at £175 (they were £139 last May !), so I'll not be getting any more from there. 

Am thinking about Shimano RS20s or RS30s instead - have found the RS30s online at £120, with next-day-before-12 delivery bringing it to £137. I'm not sure I can trust Aksiums again if they won't last much more than a year... 

Anyone used / using RS30s ?


----------



## jann71 (4 Aug 2009)

I could save you £27 :-) Pair of RS20s for £110 or RS30s for £107.99 both with free delivery from Chain Reaction. Probikekit also have a wheel sale on.


----------



## goo_mason (4 Aug 2009)

jann71 said:


> I could save you £27 :-) Pair of RS20s for £110 or RS30s for £107.99 both with free delivery from Chain Reaction. Probikekit also have a wheel sale on.



Saw them, but sadly the RS30s on Chain Reaction are £174.99 a pair; £107.99's just for a rear.


----------



## jann71 (4 Aug 2009)

Try this - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25889

In black.

It was just the RS20s, looked at wrong one for the RS30s.


----------



## Mista Preston (5 Aug 2009)

I am looking at Mavic Open Pros at the mo, found someone who will build wth an ultegra hub for around 200. Whats the deal with the Hubs. Seems to be lots to choose from?, also whats the difference between spokes?m ACI v DT ?


----------



## goo_mason (5 Aug 2009)

RS20s ordered from Chain Reaction !

Better start scrimping & saving now, as they've taken a massive chunk out of this month's budget....


----------



## Marko62 (5 Aug 2009)

Had my RS20's for 18 months and only 1 broken spoke, I'm happy with them. A mate of mine after suffering numerous spokes breaking on the standard wheels that came with his Dawes bought a pair of RS20's, so far he's had no problems....


----------



## John the Monkey (6 Aug 2009)

Mista Preston said:


> I am looking at Mavic Open Pros at the mo, found someone who will build wth an ultegra hub for around 200. Whats the deal with the Hubs. Seems to be lots to choose from?, also whats the difference between spokes?m ACI v DT ?



Hubs - the more you pay, the lighter/better quality they'll be (rule of thumb). ultegra is plenty good - Dura Ace is overkill really (imo). Nowt wrong with 105 or Tiagra ime either.

Spokes - talk to the builder - I suspect they'll have a preference - I've used ACI as replacements and had no problems with them. DT have a good reputation but are more expensive (as I recall). If the builder doesn't care, ask for spokes that you can get easily and locally in case you need spares (f'rinstance my LBS stocks ACI). Do spec double butted spokes - they stand up to the stresses of the wheel better than plain guage.

Key is to be honest with your builder about what you expect from the wheels. There's no point him building them up featherlight and aero if you're going to hammer the wheels through potholes every day.


----------



## Ranger (6 Aug 2009)

I have a hand built set of wheels (Ambrosio rims, Hope hubs) that cost me about £240 a couple of years ago.

Never had a buckle or broken spoke since despite daily commuting and weekend riding, sometimes on forest tracks and tow paths. They are great, though the rims are now getting a bit worn


----------



## goo_mason (6 Aug 2009)

My next course at the EBC is hopefully the wheelbuilding one, so I'll be coming away with a nice pair of hoops built with my own fair hands at some point in future.


----------



## Sittingduck (6 Aug 2009)

Cool - would love to be able to build my own set of wheels. It's probably not all that hard. I kind of learned to true a wheel and it seemed do-able with a bit of patience.


----------



## John the Monkey (6 Aug 2009)

It could all go horribly wrong still, but I'm pleasantly surprised so far.

Lacing is the bit I like best, very relaxing. My wheel now looks like a wheel (instead of a load of bits) and I'm starting to take up the slack in the spokes. Looks good radially, fairly out in one spot laterally (so far). Google some stuff - there's lots of info out there (tons on the CTC forum in particular). I'm using Roger Musson's eBook as the guide for my build.


----------



## Sittingduck (6 Aug 2009)

How long have you been working on it JTM?


----------



## John the Monkey (6 Aug 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> How long have you been working on it JTM?



Including unlacing it again (ordered the wrong spokes first time 'round) since Saturday, or thereabouts. Laced hub to rim Sat evening (an hour or so?) first go 'round taking up slack on Sunday (realised it wasn't going to happen because the spokes were too long and unlaced again). 

My original calculations were 294mm for non drive side, 292mm for drive side.

I kept the 292s, and laced 10 (9 inside, one outside to hold the hub in position) and ordered 290mm for the drive side. 290s turned up at the bike shop on Wednesday, so spent that evening lacing, and tightening the spokes 'til the nipple driver came out at 4mm. 

Spokes were still fairly loose, so went round again with the driver, tightening with a 2mm pin. Then did two turns with the spoke wrench (spokes aren't tight yet, but they have tension in them). It's a 36 spoke wheel, and you have to be methodical (i.e. a turn each spoke, repeat) so it takes a while, especially if you only have half or three quarters of an hour to spare. I find working in these little chunks of time quite good though, helps keep track of where things are up to.


----------



## Sittingduck (6 Aug 2009)

Hmmm maybe it is actually quite complex afterall


----------



## fossyant (6 Aug 2009)

Good going there JTM.....

Cost me £150 to have some Dura Ace hubs (old 7400's) re-built into CXP 33's - LBS used ACI (been a DT Swiss fan) but the LBS said these were tougher.

Also got CXP 33's on the fixed, ACI, same LBS...... they've been banged about for the last 1000 miles - straight as a die.....


----------



## John the Monkey (7 Aug 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> Hmmm maybe it is actually quite complex afterall



My take on it is that it's a process - it sounds nasty because it's important to be methodical and do things step by step (for me at least).

The measurement seems to be the critical part (along with the calculation, and more crucially, reading what the calculator says - I went with Sheldon's rule of thumb of going to the next size up, rather than reading the calculator I used, which says to go one size down (when you're between spoke lengths)).

It's a very satisfying thing to do (so far).

EDIT: A good LBS is handy too - the lads at Bike Boutique in Manchester have been really helpful (swapped the wrongly measured spokes (I'd not laced them) at no charge, gave plenty of advice, looked up my hubs in their database of sizes &c.


----------



## goo_mason (10 Aug 2009)

Wheels arrived safely on Friday, so I transferred the tyres over to them and the cassette over onto the rear.

It was only later when I realised that I hadn't put the valve nuts on that I noticed that the rear valve hole is off-centre; it's been drilled across the edge of the central flat part of the rim and the slope off the side.

So it's faulty and I have to return it to CRC for inspection.... arrgghh ! Means I'll probably need to take another day off sometime to wait for it being sent back to me, and somehow I'll need to get the wheel to the post office before it closes tomorrow. What a PITA


----------

