# Very Preliminary Road Bike Research



## punkypossum (11 Jun 2008)

Right, as most of you will know I got bitten by the road bike bug last Sunday (I think I had it in my system for a while, but it's now become a full-blown condition), and although I can't afford one at the moment, I thought I might as well start doing my research now, so I know what to look out for and how much I will have to save...

Being just under 6ft with a 34"inside leg, I have struggled with mountain bikes in the past to find one that fit me and wasn't too long in the reach (the wsd bikes tend to be too small for me). Suspect the same thing might happen on a road bike. How are they sized, is there some rough guide I can use along the lines of with the elbow against the saddle your fingers should reach the handlebars or something like that? (Yes, I know I'll still have to try, but some rough idea would be good) Would I be better off with a sloping top tube to get a shorter reach? (I think they look better anyway, but is there an advantage?)

Also, I think I need something with a fairly relaxed geometry, bum in the air flat out racing position is not going to agree with me...

I'm a bit worried about getting it all wrong when testing bikes as the position will be so different to my current bike (never ridden anything with drop bars ), plus I suspect the bike will feel a lot twitchier than my current little tank, so I'm not sure if I will actually be able to tell in a test ride if the bike is right for me...


What kind of money do I need to spend to get a decent beginners bike worth upgrading? I'd rather have a good frame and more basic components than vice versa.... I think I want a triple, but would a compact chainset do the same job? And what exactly are the differences in all this sora, tiagra, ultegra, etc. stuff? It doesn't need to be top of the range (in fact, I'll never be able to afford top of the range, but something decent where I won't regret not spending more after a couple of months...

Could anybody suggest any potential bike candidates for me to look at? Want to use it for longer rides with view to potentially joining a club, not fussed about mudguard clearance, etc...

I know I might not be able to get one for a while, but I would like to get a rough idea of what to look out for and how much to budget for.

Sorry for squeezing about 29 questions in one post, but any help would be appreciated!!! Still love my mtb, but feel it's a bit like having a pair of walking boots and wanting some high heels...


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## piedwagtail91 (11 Jun 2008)

you may be able to scrounge a ride on a road bike if you go to the ribble valley crc clubroom. they have a lot of women riders who may be able to answer a lot of your questions regarding bike fit.they may get to know of any used bikes that are coming up for sale.
http://www.ribblevalleycrc.com/pgac1f4.html

most of the women in one of the clubs I'm in ride hewitts but they're not cheap and are set up for touring. the shop is worth a look round and it has a good reputation. a clubmate took his wife over to get her position set up and she's very happy with the result .it's only a couple of miles from the end of the riverside/tramway cycle path on the outskirts of lostock hall /leyland.
women in the racing club tend to favour ribbles, they do have a jig in the shop for bike fitting and all say they are very happy with the bikes.

if you're thinking of venturing into the dales or forest of bowland I'd go for a triple.it's not that you can't get up the climbs on a compact , but some are long ( tatham fell, bowland knotts ) and a slightly lower gear on a triple will make climbing them a lot easier, or so the ladies tell me!.

when you get nearer to buying a bike have a look at the local club websites. i got a bargain roberts touring bike off the cleveleys road club for sale board.
most clubs have a sales board.


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## Tynan (11 Jun 2008)

drops and a road bike felt very twitchy to me after my sporty hybrid

the audax type bikes are relaxed and more comfortable and have rack and guard fittings if wanted


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## punkypossum (11 Jun 2008)

piedwagtail91 said:


> if you're thinking of venturing into the dales or forest of bowland I'd go for a triple.it's not that you can't get up the climbs on a compact , but some are long ( tatham fell, bowland knotts ) and a slightly lower gear on a triple will make climbing them a lot easier, or so the ladies tell me!.



Right, sounds like I'll be better off with a triple then, cause that's exactly where I'm planning to go. That's one step forward!  Is it me or are they rather rare? Have been browsing through the bike shop websites, and most bikes seem to come with a double or compact gearing..

Could anybody explain the difference between sora, tiagra etc. please? I know the order they go in, but what difference would it make to me? Are some easier to use than others?

As for Hewitts, yes, I've looked at their website...they don't seem to have anything under £1,000 - leaving second hand out of the equation for now, how much roughly do I need to spend on a decent bike that will be worth upgrading?


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## John the Monkey (11 Jun 2008)

Punky, Shimano have a heirarchy that goes;

Sora -> Tiagra -> 105 -> Ultegra (Ultegra SL?) -> Dura Ace

Dura Ace is most expensive, and lightest. Sora is cheapest. Sora is 8 speed on most bikes (although I think the groupset went 9 speed this year). Tiagra is 9 speed, and the others are 10 speed.

Gear changing on everything but Sora is via moving the brake lever in (to move to lower gear on rear, higher on front) and a paddle behind this lever (to move to higher on rear, lower on front). On Sora, the paddle is replaced by a thumb lever on the hoods - this can be a bugger if you want to change from the drops, although some people get on ok with it.

Note that moving from 9 speed to ten speed can be expensive (new shifters, derailleurs etc) so buying a 10 speed group now *could* save some expense in the future if you want to move "up" the tree (assuming it hasn't all gone 11 speed by then).

I can't tell you a lot about Campag because I don't know much about it - I think they do have advantages in terms of being 10 speed across all groups (or easily convertible, at least).

If you're worried about the riding position, you could ask the LBS to leave you a good spacer stack, and gradually move the stem down it - I did this on my Giant. (Started with the bar tops level with the saddle nose, like on my old bike, and moved the stem down a spacer at a time).

EDIT: The Ribble bikes are great value for money - if you're close enough to them to get a test ride/fitting, definitely worth a look.


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## piedwagtail91 (11 Jun 2008)

a lot of the racing club have ribbles from winter bikes to top of the range alu, no one has gone ribble carbon yet. they're all happy with them and haven't had any problems, the cheapest, the winter bike will take guards and a rack so you could possibly tour on it or strip it down in summer to have a more sporty bike with just a saddle pack for carrying spares.they are good value for money , some love them others don't. have a look, you don't have to buy!our club does a bike shop ride every couple of months and hardly anything is bought, we just go to look.another couple of shops which have the occasional bargain is broadgate cycles but I've no idea how to get there,( it's over the cobbled bridge and right at a roundabout). http://www.broadgatecycles.co.uk/ and wallis in walton le dale at the bottom of the hill. http://www.walliscycles.com/ they have a winter audax bike similar to ribbles for £400 new.click on special offers and scroll down.


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## punkypossum (11 Jun 2008)

Ok, thanks, that's clarified it a bit further...I think I want at least Tiagra then, sound far less fussy.

So what makes a winter bike a winter bike then? Is the only difference that it will take mudguards or is there other stuff as well? Cause being the only bike it will have to be a summer bike too!!! 

I don't want to go to Broadgate Cycles for various reasons, but will certainly have a look at ribble and the other shop you mention (like the idea of a fitting jig)!!!

Oh, and what about forks...do I need Carbon? And those cyclocross bikes, I know they are tougher, I suspect that makes them heavier and not as fast, is that right?


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## piedwagtail91 (11 Jun 2008)

some cyclo cross bikes http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15104 will adapt to make a good touring bike., but they need gear lever bosses/ cable stops on the down tube, the example above doesn't show them in the picture so would probabaly only take flat bars with rapid fire shifters.
forks depend on what you want to do, if you just want to do dayrides or short tours with a saddlebag / rackpack or possibly rear panniers then carbon will be OK, if you want to do expeditions with front panniers then they need to be something else.
two clubmates did a 1000 mile tour across France on what were basically ribble winter bikes with panniers on. they had triple chainsets and carbon forks. when they came back they took all the touring stuff off and used the bikes for training.


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## punkypossum (11 Jun 2008)

John the Monkey said:


> EDIT: The Ribble bikes are great value for money - if you're close enough to them to get a test ride/fitting, definitely worth a look.



Hehe, yes, they are about half a mile down the road, so not a problem!!! 

I'm not planning on fully loaded touring, so don't need to worry about that...

Still confused about the difference between a winter and a summer bike tho! Sorry about the numpty questions, but I would rather have some idea of what I'm talking about before going to the bike shop!!!!


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## piedwagtail91 (11 Jun 2008)

there really isn't much difference between summer and winter.
winter will usually take mudguards and have a lower range of groupset and parts on.
a summer bike will usually not take guards.
in some cases the only difference between a summer and winter frame will be that the winter frame will have eyelets to fasten the mudguards to.

keep asking , tomorrow there'll be a lot more on line so you'll get more opinions on what to look for.


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## punkypossum (11 Jun 2008)

It's slowly becoming clearer, so apart from the ribble ones and that other one you pointed out, would something like this giant be a good starting point? Just been browsing around a bit more...

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...QRY=C107&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003155c002912

And how transferable is the sizing from a mountain bike, for example my current mtb is a 19.5, would that make me a 50 (or medium) in the giant then with that being a compact frame? Cause in that case, some of the WSD designs might work, like e.g. the Specialized Dolce, which comes in a 56...


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## mickle (12 Jun 2008)

sigh


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## Christopher (12 Jun 2008)

ola Punky

A few answers:
1) Ribble frames only take 23mm tyres AFAIK, are only alu or carbon or a mix - bit thin for touring;

2) 19" in MTB would make you somewhere around 58cm on road bikes, the size does not convert by multiplication as the position is different - you may just get on a 56 but I bet that would be too small;

3) You'll probalby have to get a man's bike anyway due to your height and leg length;

4) Spend £ on frame as you can't change that - can always swop wheels and pedals and other things. Wheels are the next best spend as even a light front wheel does make a significant difference;

5) I think Hewitt will gladly fit you on the jig but probably with the understanding that you then buy a bike from them - could be difficult;

6) Bike in the link is okay but a bit overgeared for the local horrors, doubt even 30x25 will get you up Whalley Bank (nearly 1km of constant 1 in 7), but, as it is Shimano, you can swop the rear for a MTB mech to get something like a 34t bottom cog, that'll help, make sure the rear mech can handle it (might have to use a MTB rear mech which will work perfectly on that rig). If you buy from a decent LBS they should swop out various parts before you buy it


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## punkypossum (12 Jun 2008)

mickle said:


> sigh



But, but, but mickle....I haven't asked an endless question for ages - you should be thrilled!!!!


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## punkypossum (12 Jun 2008)

Frustruck said:


> ola Punky
> 
> A few answers:
> 1) Ribble frames only take 23mm tyres AFAIK, are only alu or carbon or a mix - bit thin for touring;
> ...



Don't want to go touring, just be comfy on long day rides, but I like the idea of a bike that would at least give me the option of sticking 25mm tyres on...

As for the gearing, how do other people get up hills on them? Surely not everybody switches rear mechs over to mtb ones? This is all very confusing!!!  This whole gear ratio stuff is completely going over my head... I take it I want a small number at the front, i.e. 30 and then a high one, i.e. at least 34 at the back?


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## HelenD123 (12 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> But, but, but mickle....I haven't asked an endless question for ages - you should be thrilled!!!!



Keep asking Punky!! You're a bit ahead of me in your cycling journey so will save me asking the same questions in a few months...


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## punkypossum (12 Jun 2008)

HelenD123 said:


> Keep asking Punky!! You're a bit ahead of me in your cycling journey so will save me asking the same questions in a few months...



Give me your password Helen, then I can post under your username and it doesn't look as if it's just me being a muppet!!!


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## HelenD123 (12 Jun 2008)

Maybe we could set up an alter ego just for asking numpty/muppet questions. KermitFrog...

Sorry, couldn't resist!


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## punkypossum (12 Jun 2008)

I like your plan!!!  Still hoping someone will explain these gear ratios to me!!!


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## rich p (12 Jun 2008)

I don't think they're numpty questions at all. I suspect you could buy almost any road bike out there and be relatively comfortable. Some on here will swear by carbon, alu or steel but I like all my bikes and I've got one of each. I was told when I got my first road bike (aluminium) that it would be more comfortable to get carbon forks - so I did. I would recommend a triple to give you lower gears but 30/26 will probably be low enough. 
I would also only buy a bike with drop bars personally as I find them much more comfortable and versatile over a long ride and I alsmost never actually use the drops.


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## domtyler (12 Jun 2008)

You want a standard road bike with a compact chainset and 23mm road tyres. Don't take half measures and compromises because of some sense of trepidation and then regret it later, it'll end up costing you far more over the long term.


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## Tynan (12 Jun 2008)

long rides?

audax frame

comfortable?

steel frame

(fratello from Condor)

takes guards and rack if wanted, relaxed geometry, do fit free


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## domtyler (12 Jun 2008)

Tynan said:


> long rides?
> 
> audax frame
> 
> ...



This looks like very good advice to me!


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## punkypossum (12 Jun 2008)

This is all getting even more confusing...one minute even a triple won't be enough, the next I'll be ok with a compact - argh!!! Buying a mountain bike was so much easier!!!! 

I'm pretty sure I would like to avoid steel tho...unfortunately that is for purely aesthetic reasons - just don't like the look of the skinny tubes. I know there is more important things than looks, but still...


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## rich p (12 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> This is all getting even more confusing...one minute even a triple won't be enough, the next I'll be ok with a compact - argh!!! Buying a mountain bike was so much easier!!!!
> 
> :




I prefer triples as they give you the option of lower gears (Ithink).


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## domtyler (12 Jun 2008)

rich p said:


> I prefer triples as they give you the option of lower gears (Ithink).



You sure 'bout that? Why wouldn't a triple be able to give a very low gear?

PP, keep things simple, that was what I really wanted my earlier message to be.

Don't get involved with all the different options available nowadays, they are mostly for the benefit of the sales and marketing departments than the end user.

Go for a straightforward road bike that fits you perfectly.


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## rich p (12 Jun 2008)

domtyler said:


> You sure 'bout that? Why wouldn't a triple be able to give a very low gear?
> 
> 
> .



I thought that's what I said!


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## Tynan (12 Jun 2008)

modern steel frames aren't skinny to my knowledge because of the advantages of modern over sized tubing

steel frame soaks up a load of the road buzz, carbon forks/seat post too


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## piedwagtail91 (12 Jun 2008)

i think you may be better asking some of the ribble valley crc, or other preston area, women about gearing, most will have done the climbs and areas that you're thinking of riding in .
look on a club as a knowledge base both for bikes and looking after them. lots of free advice and probably help based on experience of the area.
personally when i'm not on fixed i have a triple with 30x26 bottom gear and have used it many times on the longer climbs, including the couple mentioned earlier, round here when it's been windy or i've just wanted an easier climb..


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## punkypossum (13 Jun 2008)

Good idea, have emailed Ribble Valley CC and now have a phone number to ring for some further info, so will try to milk them for a bit more local gearing knowledge...

I read in the CTC mag that audax bikes often provide more hill-friendly gears, so that is looking more and more like an option...

Still alll very confusing!!!!


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## Crackle (13 Jun 2008)

Read my review of my own Dawes Audax in the reviews section. It all adds to the picture.

A triple will give you a wider spread of gears but you might find the gears won't be as low as your current mtn bike. i.e my low on the Audax is 30" but on my mtn bike it's 21", which is the equivalent of about another 3 gears lower than on the Audax. Now if you never use your lower gears on your mtn bike on the road then not an issue. If you do then anything you buy off the shelf on a road bike is going to need customising on the gear front, easy but adds to the cost and requires you to gain an understanding of gear ratios so you get it right.


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## Nick1979 (13 Jun 2008)

Yes but don't forget a road bike is much lighter (in term of weight and road resistance of the tyres), there is a big difference compared to a MTB. So for the same effort, you can use much higher gears on a road bike.
I think a standard triple (as in 50/39/30) should be fine for (nearly) everything you want to do (except maybe if you're 80 and living in the Alps).


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## piedwagtail91 (13 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> Good idea, have emailed Ribble Valley CC and now have a phone number to ring for some further info, so will try to milk them for a bit more local gearing knowledge...
> 
> I read in the CTC mag that audax bikes often provide more hill-friendly gears, so that is looking more and more like an option...
> 
> Still alll very confusing!!!!




i think you'll find them pretty helpful. they have a good reputation for getting people on to bikes!
if you're lucky you may be able to scrounge a ride on someones spare road/winter bike.it will give you an idea of what it's like.
i think the bloke at wallis cycles could be helpful, i've seen him in scorton with someone i'm guessing is his wife/girlfriend so you may be able to get gearing/frame info there.


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## Christopher (13 Jun 2008)

You can have a go on my 58cm steel Audax bike Punky... it has drop bars and the brakes the other way around (front brake operated by LH lever) so you might not want to do that. PM me if so.

Saw a lady on a Wallis on the commue this AM, a fine-looking alu road bike.


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## punkypossum (17 Jun 2008)

Well, after a couple of rounds of the college car park on frustruck's road bike (Thanks again for that! ) I have learnt that a) his bike (58 I think) is way too long for me  the tiniest stone feels like you hit a a rock c) the position didn't feel as upside down as I had expected d) The bike felt twitchy as I had expected e) My lower arms started hurting immediately, f) the brakes on a roadbike don't appear to have much actual stopping power at all (especially compared to the effort put into braking), i.e. downhills should be avoided at all cost. Why create something very fast with suicide brakes?  g) although very brief and uncomfortable, it was sort of fun in a warped way

Conclusion from a - g: A lot more research and test rides required, by the time I've finished, I might possibly even be able to afford one (or be too scared to want one).


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## ASC1951 (17 Jun 2008)

Punky, you will find that d) e) f) g) and to some extent  are all a direct result of a). 

I'm expect I weigh many pounds more than you (if not, you may have a problem  ) and I have no difficulty on a road bike braking just with two fingers on the outside of the brake levers, which I keep set up to have less than an inch of travel at the lever tip. I only use my full hand grip for braking if I am going downhill well over 30mph. Offroad on an MTB you often need to slow right down, and suddenly, so MTB brakes have to be far more positive. If you use that amount of power on a road bike you will be shot out the front.

Have a ride on a shorter bike with tight brake lever action and it will all feel a lot more natural.


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## punkypossum (17 Jun 2008)

As for shorter, I know the position on a road bike is different, but if I measure the reach on my mtb which fits me fine, can I transfer that and use it for road bike sizing?


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## Paulus (17 Jun 2008)

Maybe punky, but remember that a road frame has totally different angles and so will be a differnent shape. An Audax bike as you mentioned before would be a good start. You will get road gearing with a triple chainset and a wider spaced cassette at the back to help with hill climbing.


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## ColinJ (17 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> Well, after a couple of rounds of the college car park on frustruck's road bike (Thanks again for that! ) I have learnt that a) his bike (58 I think) is way too long for me B) the tiniest stone feels like you hit a a rock c) the position didn't feel as upside down as I had expected d) The bike felt twitchy as I had expected e) My lower arms started hurting immediately, f) the brakes on a roadbike don't appear to have much actual stopping power at all (especially compared to the effort put into braking), i.e. downhills should be avoided at all cost. Why create something very fast with suicide brakes?  g) although very brief and uncomfortable, it was sort of fun in a warped way


Hi PP.

Here's my contribution...

(a) I'm 6' 1.5" and I ride a 58 cm frame but my height mainly comes from my torso. My leg measurement is only about 33". Women tend to have longer legs and shorter torsos than men of the same height so I'm not surprised that you found a 58cm frame a stretch. 

(B) Skinny tyres do feel a bit harsh compared to the comfort of big knobblies on a bike with suspension forks but I think a lot of people have their road tyre pressures a bit on the high side. You can make a big improvement in comfort by lowering the pressures slightly. There have been lots of discussions on this subject and some people will tell you that you need to run 23c tyres at well over 100 psi to avoid pinch punctures (snakebites). I run my tyres at about 80 psi front and 90 psi back (because there is more weight on the back of the bike) and I don't suffer from that problem. I just watch where I'm riding and unweight the bike (get out of the saddle) over rough surfaces. It may be possible to run bigger (more comfortable) tyres if your frame and forks have clearance for them. Touring bikes can usually take much more than 23c. My Basso can take 25c and that is my usual choice. My Cannondale doesn't really have clearance for anything bigger than 23c.

(c) I try to get the position on all my bikes (including my MTB) as close as possible.

(d) I wouldn't say that my road bikes are 'twitchy' exactly, but they are definitely easier to throw about than my MTB. That's partly because they are about 8-10 lbs lighter. You get used to it.

(e) Your arms probably got sore because your position wasn't right and was putting too much weight on them. A proper bike fit should sort that out. Paul Hewitt is very good for that.

(f) You do need to use a little bit more effort to apply road brakes, but you shouldn't need to be a gorilla! On anything upto about 20% downhills I use 1 or 2 fingers per lever. Above 20% I need to use 3 fingers but still manage to slow down okay. If you can lock the wheels without too much trouble (which is easily possible with modern brakes), you don't need more than that. It may be that you have short fingers in which case you need levers set closer to the bars so that you can get a good grip on them. 

Some people have their brakes setup too 'tight' which makes braking difficult. If the blocks are set too close to the rims, you have to use too much strength - they go from off to full on in a couple of mms of lever travel. If you set the blocks further away from the rims so that you pull the levers further, you get much more control over your braking and don't need to pull so hard. *NB you must make sure that the levers never touch the bars under full braking, for obvious reasons *!!!

(g) MTB riding is great. Road riding is great. I ride my MTB on the road between bridleways and it feels like a slug. I ride my road bike on the odd bit of rough stuff and have to be very careful where I'd just blast away on the MTB. That's why I have several bikes - right 'tools for the job' and all that!

PS You could always come along on my Bowland ride and just do Longridge Fell and Beacon Fell - I know that you've done them before .

Oh, and I use a triple chainset on the Basso for riding big hills. It has 52/39/30 chainrings and a 14-28 cassette. It's old 9-speed Campagnolo. 10-speed Campagnolo would give you the option of a 13-29 cassette. A 30/29 bottom gear isn't anywhere near as low as the bottom gear on an MTB but it is very low on a road bike and when you are fit, you should be able to climb anything on that and usually not even need the bottom few gears. I'm not sure what options you'd have with Shimano - you'd probably be able to go even lower using a MTB cassette but unless you were touring with heavy loads, I don't think you'd need to.


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## Danny (17 Jun 2008)

Still think you should consider an Audax bike or even a tourer, rather than a pure road bike, as you can run it with wider tyres and easily carry luggage on your charity rides.

Don't you live somewhere around Preston? In which case you should consider going to see Paul Hewitt in Leyland for a bike fitting session. After much positive feedback from other members of the forum, I had a session with Paul last month and was very impressed with the whole experience. He spent over two hours sorting out my riding position and discussing the various options I had for getting an Audax bike/light tourer. He sells both and will customise them to any specification you require.

Buying a bike through him will cost between £900 - £1000, but you will be sure to get something that really fits and suits they way you plan to ride. Alternatively you can just pay him a small fee (£30 I think) and he will still do a bike fitting session, and give you a detailed sizing diagram which you can use to purchase a bike elsewhere.

I am sorry I didn't see someone like Paul before I bought my first drop handlebar bike. Basically I got one that was the wrong size, and ended up having to sell it after a few months. This cost me much more than a bike fitting session would have.


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## Christopher (17 Jun 2008)

Punky would have found the bike a _bit_ shorter if I had noticed that the saddle was so far back it was nearly out of the clamp!

Oh, and the brakes on that bike (Oryx cantis) are a bit feeble, might be better with better pads, but the dual-pivots on the bike in my avatar pic are a lot more powerful, but even then not as powerful as V-brakes.


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## Chris James (17 Jun 2008)

PP, my twopennorth. From your height inside leg measurements I would guess that you would be best off with a man's bike.

I am 5 ft 11 1/2in and 33in inside leg and ride a 57cm bike (with a 57cm top tube length). So I woud have thought that a 56cm would be a good size for you to try.

Re sizing, effective top tube length is probably the most important measurement and is independent on whether you have a horizontal or sloping top tube.

Typically reach to the handlebars is about right if, when sat on the saddle, the bars obstruct your view of the front hub.

Re gearing, a 30 tooth chain ring with 27 tooth ring on the cassette should see you up most things. If you struggle on some hills then you just need to gte fitter. Don't consider fitting a MTB block and derailleur to a road bike (as opposed to tourer) as you will end up with widely spaced gears and you already have a MTB that does low gears. I have a 30/25 bottom gear and get up everything around here okay although low gears are always very welcome at the end of the day when you are tired. 

As far as brakes go, dual pivots are pretty good but you usually just use them to trim speed off, not to stop dead. If the brakes were that good then you would probably go over the handlebars!

Personally I would go for a 105 equipped bike as it is compatible with all the groupsets above it (as they are all 10 speed), However, I believe the recent upgrade to Tiagra is an extremely good performer and extra speeds are a very marginal benefit in my view. Tiagra is substantially cheaper too.

If you are looking at good value (cheap!) then Ribble are famed for how much bang you get for your buck. I believe they have long top tubes for their frame sizes though so you may want to ere on the small size seat tube length and this may result in your bars seeming low in comparison to your saddle - something you might not like from a MTB background.

I get the impression you would like a full on road bike rather than an audax type bike as you would like a speed machine. If that is true then you will probably have more choice as there aren't that many bikes around with triple chiansets and mudguard eyelets. However, don't dismiss audax bikes out of hand as being slow. I have a Dawes Audax, same as Crackle, and it is very comfy and quite nippy too. I did the 62miler round the Northern Rock Cyclone last weekend and was the same pace as some lads on full carbon bikes and I kept pedalling when they got off and walked up the hills!


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## Tynan (17 Jun 2008)

Chris James said:


> when they got off and walked up the hills!


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## HJ (17 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> I like your plan!!!  Still hoping someone will explain these gear ratios to me!!!



Here yous go Punky, all you ever wanted to know about gear ratios and more... hope that helps a wee bit.


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## punkypossum (18 Jun 2008)

Chris James said:


> *I get the impression you would like a full on road bike rather than an audax type bike as you would like a speed machine.* If that is true then you will probably have more choice as there aren't that many bikes around with triple chiansets and mudguard eyelets. However, don't dismiss audax bikes out of hand as being slow. I have a Dawes Audax, same as Crackle, and it is very comfy and quite nippy too. I did the 62miler round the Northern Rock Cyclone last weekend and was the same pace as some lads on full carbon bikes and I kept pedalling when they got off and walked up the hills!



Thanks again every for all the advice everyone...I'm definitely not after a complete speed machine - not if it means giving up comfort and ending up with my bum 3 feet above my head - don't think my skeleton could cope!!! However, I do have a bit of a thing about sloping top tubes, and so far, I have found them more on "proper" road then audax bikes...

Also, my mountain bike weighs 28 pounds and most of the audax ones seem to be around 24 or more - I would like to lose weight by switching to a road bike, but will 4 pounds or so really make much difference?

Whatever happens, I'm getting more and more convinced I'll need a proper fitting session...


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## Chris James (18 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> Also, my mountain bike weighs 28 pounds and most of the audax ones seem to be around 24 or more - I would like to lose weight by switching to a road bike, but *will 4 pounds or so really make much difference*?




Yes, a massive difference between any road bike and a mountain bike. But not due to the weight difference particularly. My brother in law has a very expensive mountain bike that probably weighs less than my audax bike (his wheels alone cost £500). We went for a ride together (and swapped bikes half way round). The audax bike was at least 4 mph faster. Presumably down to the lower rolling resistance of the tyres and the lack of energy loss while pedalling due to the absence of suspension?

I was surprised how dramatic the difference was, as soon as I applied any effort my brother in law disappeared backwards and I had to wait for him. But when I was on his bike I couldn't get anywhere near him so the difference was definitely the bike and not the rider!


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## Crackle (18 Jun 2008)

Second all the good advice already given and add that it does sound like you want an Audax bike, they are more comfortable than an out and out rode bike and whilst not as responsive as a race bike are not as slow as a tourer, so a half way house you can use for both. They are also generally more upright a position.

You need to ride a few more, maybe even hire a road bike somewhere for the day, get used to it and then you'll start to feel the difference. Remeber how your mtn bike suddenly felt short as you got used to it, so the stretched feeling on a road bike will go when you adjust ot it.


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## punkypossum (20 Jun 2008)

Just had a look at some of the stuff going on ebay to get a better idea what is out there and came across this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190229894618&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Would something like that be a good idea? I had a look at some reviews and they all state that the geometry is quite upright and the reach fairly short (and it fulfils my wish for a sloping top tube). I know it's an older model that appears to be no longer made and I won't put a bid in anyway as I can't try it, but just wondered if it is generally a good bike and if so, is there maybe some "modern day" equivalent...


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## Danny (21 Jun 2008)

In general I think you will find that pure road bikes are not really designed for riding in a more upright position, so you need to be certain that you can set up any given bike in the way you want.

Having said that the Sequoia Elite on eBay does look like it would allow you to ride fairly upright. 

For a current equivalent what about a Specilized Dolce which is "designed by women for women". More generally Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op seems pretty clued up on the needs of women cyclists so it might be worth you paying a visit to their Manchester branch.


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## John the Monkey (21 Jun 2008)

Dannyg said:


> More generally Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op seems pretty clued up on the needs of women cyclists so it might be worth you paying a visit to their Manchester branch.


If you do end up around Manchester, and want a poke at an SCR2, mine is just down the road from the Edinburgh Bike Co-op most weekdays (Large frame).


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2008)

I'd second looking at a Giant SCR2.
Slightly more relaxed riding position, nice frame, Tiagra, will take full mudguards and a rack for Audax/very light touring. Lighter wheels and tyres would make it a real screamer. The riding position seems very good with plent of adjustment bar-wise. Worth a test-run.
Cara in C+ tested the womens version and rated it highly. Good value for money.
Agree, you'll need a "mens" version for your size, but that's no issue.

A more expensive choice would be the Salsa Casserole at around £800, a sprightly Cr-Mo frame suitable for zipping around and also light Touring/Audax duties. Old-fashioned horizontal dropouts means could be converted to fixed duties for the winter (we used to do that back in the old-days!). The casserole is on my "I want one of those list". Also given top marks by C+

http://www.salsacycles.com/casserollComp08.html

How beautiful is that! 

Finally, my other current fave is the Condor Fratello.... Mmmm
http://www.condorcycles.com/audax.html

Choices choices!


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## punkypossum (22 Jun 2008)

Fab Foodie said:


> *I'd second looking at a Giant SCR2.
> Slightly more relaxed riding position, nice frame, Tiagra, will take full mudguards and a rack for Audax/very light touring. Lighter wheels and tyres would make it a real screamer. The riding position seems very good with plent of adjustment bar-wise. *Worth a test-run.
> Cara in C+ tested the womens version and rated it highly. Good value for money.
> Agree, you'll need a "mens" version for your size, but that's no issue.
> ...



That's what I liked about the SCR when I first looked at it, but then got all confused by some people saying it might be overgeared for the local hills...

And don't all the SCR's creak like hell?

That Fratello is gorgeous!!! (Well, it is at the moment, haven't seen the price tag yet )


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## Tynan (22 Jun 2008)

my Fratello is on the stand with new pads as I type

haven't got one bad thing to say about it

£799 inc guards and rack, be wrn3d though that it was a five week order time when I did it


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## Fab Foodie (22 Jun 2008)

Tynan said:


> my Fratello is on the stand with new pads as I type
> 
> haven't got one bad thing to say about it
> 
> £799 inc guards and rack, be wrn3d though that it was a five week order time when I did it



Bargain IMO! (no not jealous really... much, at all... bastard )


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## yenrod (22 Jun 2008)

>punkypossum

Sounds like you have longer legs than upper body.

Cycling - off the peg wise, caters for your body type most often than the reverse.

You shouldnt have a prob. with finding a comfortable road bike than MTB's _generally_ which have a longer TT.

Whereas roadybikes have shorter T.Tubes ! _generally_

I dont study MTB's now - but I do know that Orange back in their day kicked off short top-tube model bikes.

I feel though the Americans (as they marketed and pretty much invented the MTB) realised the fact that you cant extend the position of the MTB and made the TT long and its better for balance anyway.

I feel if you get a bunch of cyclists together you'll find quite a lot aren't on the correct sized~bike..its difficult as you may like a certain bike paint-scheme and componentry etc...yet the sizing will be well off your dimentions.

All the best on your choice.


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## Tynan (22 Jun 2008)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bargain IMO! (no not jealous really... much, at all... bastard )



people say they're overpriced but It was exactly what I wanted I think

do bear in mind that I was flogging a ten year old cheap junker in the final stages of collapse for six months waiting for the insurance to settle


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## simon l& and a half (22 Jun 2008)

PP - I have the answer to your question

Specialized WSD. Obvious enough, but founded on personal observation

Mrs L, who is not fit, not skinny, and is 48 years old (makes plans to move into shed - after having constructed shed) has moved from a hybrid direct to a Specialized Ruby Pro. The geometry is fantastic. The ride is fantastic. The saddle is microscopic, but she says it's very comfortable. She doesn't need bit for racks - she has a husband (albeit one who will shortly be living in a shed). It has 20 gears, with a 50/34 on the front - and that is fine for her, and should be for you. Now - the price is something else (you can still get a 2007 model for under £2k) but Specialized make a variety of versions from the Dolce (leave well alone) to the Ruby Pro. It's a question of checking what you can get for what you want to spend. Any shifter system from Ultegra up is going to be fabulous, and long-lasting. The more carbon the better.

The largest frame size is 56, which is about 1cm under the ideal for your height, but, given your long legs I'd have thought a test ride would be well worth while. You might need a longer stem, but then again you might not. You'll probably need a longer seat post, but there's a lot of length on Mrs Ls seatpost. 

Good luck.


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## punkypossum (22 Jun 2008)

simon l& and a half said:


> PP - I have the answer to your question
> 
> Specialized WSD. Obvious enough, but founded on personal observation
> 
> ...



Thanks again for all your help guys... Simon, what is wrong with the Dolce??? Quite liked the look of the elite....


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## Chris James (23 Jun 2008)

punkypossum said:


> Thanks again for all your help guys... Simon, what is wrong with the Dolce??? Quite liked the look of the elite....



Perhaps it isn't expensive enough for Simon to consider? 

I have 105 shifters on my bike and they are smooth and I have had no problems with them. So I would take issuse with his comment about Ultegra and upwards only to be considered.


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