# Winter training - core stability exercises



## Bill Gates (12 Nov 2009)

I have always included off the bike strength/flexibility exercises in my weekly training routine. In the off season I do this 2/3 x week and in the racing season 1 x week. It would seem that those riders that most people recognise as being at the top of the tree e.g. Fabian Cancellara and Cadel Evans, the current world TT and Road Race champions also train off the bike for core strength and flexibility.

There are coaches (who I have crossed swords with), who post on the internet forums (not this one), and who freely advertise through their signatures for new business clients, who actually ridicule the belief that core strength or any strength/flexibility exercises for that matter have any impact on the performance of endurance cycling.

When I commented on a picture of Tom Boonen with a mighty six pack I was told that the picture had been touched up (ha ha!).

Fabian Cancellara has been quoted as saying that his flexibility and core strength has enabled him to obtain a lower aero profile on his TT bike and maintain his power output making him go faster. These coaches would argue with him and tell him he is mistaken. Who do you believe?

P.S.Interesting article from Pro Cycling News on the subject
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=15945


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## jimboalee (12 Nov 2009)

Cannot agree more.

My twice weekly gym exercises include :-

Dead lift.
Dumbell side bends.
Twisting hyperextensions.
Roman chair twisting crunches.

Abs and midriff training is ESSENTIAL to good posture when riding.


Case in point. 
Grab your bottle of liquid energy when you're hammering along on the drops. SEE BILL'S AVATAR. Avoid letting the bike veer sideways - loosen your pressure on the bars and twist your upper body to squirt the juice down your throat. 

Your back and obliques take the weight of your upper body while you are drinking.

Weak midriff = spectacular crash.


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## lukesdad (12 Nov 2009)

Core strength is important to avoid injury,this is because of the immense forces generated by the large powerfull muscles in the legs during performance cycling.


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## jonnyboy (12 Nov 2009)

had a lower back injury earlier this year due to not being fitted to my bike properly,my physio therapist gave me loads of core strength and core flexibility exercises they worked a treat for me.(and getting fitted to the bike)!!!!


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## lukesdad (13 Nov 2009)

there you go !


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## I am Spartacus (13 Nov 2009)

Bill Gates said:


> When I commented on a picture of Tom Boonen with a mighty six pack I was told that the picture had been touched up (ha ha!).



Just a minor point.
Visible abdominal musculature is very indicative of lean body mass .. not inherent core strength.
Not that I want to get into a wandering discussion with you as you do seem to have a very positive attitude to what you know and works for yourself.

Perhaps that is the difference between fitness professionals and yourself.. a good coach has an ability to understand wider aspects of a new approach - be it rightly or wrongly.

Perhaps those coaches were veering towards the fact that out and out speed on a bike is not dependent on core stability leaving aside the obvious benefits of being strong in the trunk.


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## Bill Gates (13 Nov 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> Just a minor point.
> Visible abdominal musculature is very indicative of lean body mass .. not inherent core strength.
> Not that I want to get into a wandering discussion with you as you do seem to have a very positive attitude to what you know and works for yourself.
> 
> ...



Well balanced point of view.


The thing with out and out speed is that I would agree that it is entirely possible that a scientific study would show that core stability has no bearing on power output. On the other hand if we are to look at the bigger picture then we bring in other aspects of a rider's ability to ride fast in a TT or Road Race.

In a TT you need to maintain the most comfortable aero position comaptible with the least power loss so that the right balance can be obtained as per *Fabian Cancellara*. In this respect it is his core strength which therefore assists him to get lower thereby making more aero , *which makes him go faster for the same power. *

In a Road Race there are climbs, breaks, sprints, which determine who gets over the line first. I know that the upper body (core strength) is brought into play when :- pulling on the handlebars on a climb; keeping the bike under control in a sprint with the extra force on the pedals; and keeping a smooth action as per a pursuit in getting away in a break (flat/downhill). 

There are two schools of thought on this. Either it is or isn't beneficial. If you've got the time and are serious about your training would you really follow the advice of the "not beneficial" school of thought if you knew that the top riders were doing the opposite?


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## I am Spartacus (13 Nov 2009)

I vere towards it being beneficial.. but I suspect that my namesake hits the pilates big style in the off season... he is probably a little too busy and preoccupied at any other time..


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## jacster (13 Nov 2009)

Hi Bill,
I'm in 'it's beneficial' camp too, as you can probably tell by my posts elsewhere!


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## Bill Gates (13 Nov 2009)

jacster said:


> Hi Bill,
> I'm in 'it's beneficial' camp too, as you can probably tell by my posts elsewhere!



So is the official British Cycling site : 

http://new.britishcycling.org.uk/co...D-August-Improving-Your-Riders-Core-Stability


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## jacster (13 Nov 2009)

May help explain why British Cycling is going from strength to strength..


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## lukesdad (13 Nov 2009)

Beg to differ here in certain circumstances. Trunk muscle is extra weight. I being small 5 7" and concentrating on the road at climbing as well as xc racing and weighing ashade under 10 stone want to keep weight off. Upper body muscle is the last thing I want.

I have very good core condition and base training this is gained in a variety of ways crosstraining etc. but I dont do weights and I don t do protein supplements. Very carefull attention to diet is more important. The little guys get to the top of the mountain first, at least around here they do.


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## Seamab (13 Nov 2009)

There are many valid reasons posted here and others for doing core strength work but i think the essential point is that this type of exercise does not increase your aerobic capacity therefore has nothing to do with muscular endurance.

What it does do for many cyclists though is to put them in the position where they can best take advantage of their aerobic capacity by sorting out issues caused by poor bike fitting or other imbalances caused by injury or giving them the ability to hold a new position e.g. TT, for a long time.

I read somewhere recently that cyclists can be affected by osteoporosis more so than other sports because it is non load bearing - another good reason to do some core work.

I think we need to distinguish what the "other coaches" are saying. They are not saying that core work is bad per se, but pointing out that there is no evidence that backs up the theory that it improves cycling specific muscular endurance by itself and this is better served by riding the bike.

The pro's already have a hugely developed muscular endurance capacity and are using the gym to tackle other specific issues that they or their coaches feel need to be addressed e.g. sprinting. They don't need to ride the bike more unlike us time pressed amateurs.


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## lukesdad (13 Nov 2009)

If you want load bearing and improve your core strength ....get out of the saddle more!


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## Bill Gates (15 Nov 2009)

Seamab said:


> There are many valid reasons posted here and others for doing core strength work but i think the essential point is that this type of exercise does not increase your aerobic capacity therefore has nothing to do with muscular endurance.
> 
> What it does do for many cyclists though is to put them in the position where they can best take advantage of their aerobic capacity by sorting out issues caused by poor bike fitting or other imbalances caused by injury or giving them the ability to hold a new position e.g. TT, for a long time.
> 
> ...




At the end of the day it doesn't matter. You either believe that core stability training is beneficial or you don't. Whatever you believe you have come to that belief by rationalising your own experiences or others' or what you read in a book (scientific trials) or on the net etc. You may only ride your bike for training and be quite successful. Fine carry on - nobody is going to die.

Me? I'll carry on with what the top pros and their coaches advise and my own anecdotal experiences show.


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## fido (20 Nov 2009)

I would get a good fitness instructor to conjure up a core strength/stability prog. that mimics specifically the movement(s) of cycling.


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## Bill Gates (11 Dec 2009)

Soon be shifting from 2 x gym training a week to only 1. I'm finding that full recovery from gym training for me now takes 3 days (to match or increase reps), and cycling the day after is affected adversely. On the other hand incredibly at 60, my strength is as good if not better than ever.

Time on the bike is around 4 hours a week and want to double that in the weeks leading up to christmas so can't afford to spend more than 1 x gym a week.


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## heamarroid-ali (11 Dec 2009)

So, is there any exercise that can be done in the home rather than going to a gym, to help build up the core strength.


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## montage (11 Dec 2009)

Dorsal raises - hit the lower back
Crunches - hit the abs
Twisted crunches - hit the obliques
Leg raises - lower back + lower abs
Plank - all core muscles
Side Planks- concentrate on the obliques more but still hit the rest of the core muscles


These target the core specifically, but many excersises use the core muscles, press ups, squats, dead lifts, bench lifts etc


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## Bill Gates (23 Nov 2019)

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...e-bike-Strength-training-for-winter-cycling-0

I thought it might be timely, to reopen the debate on weight training and gym work, for cycling and thanks to Shaun introducing a history button I came across this thread from 2009. 

and this from a previous hour record holder Jens Voight.
https://blog.fitbit.com/strength-training-for-cyclists/


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## classic33 (24 Nov 2019)

Bill Gates said:


> https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...e-bike-Strength-training-for-winter-cycling-0
> 
> I thought it might be timely, to reopen the debate on weight training and gym work, for cycling and thanks to Shaun introducing a history button I came across this thread from 2009.
> 
> ...


Monday gone. 6 days ago, is hardly history.


Bill Gates said:


> https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...e-bike-Strength-training-for-winter-cycling-0
> 
> _Off-the-bike conditioning work will make you faster on the bike but it will also deliver a host of other benefits. It will slow and even reverse the loss of muscle mass associated with ageing, improving strength, health and facilitating weight control. It will improve bone health, specifically bone density, which is an issue even for Grand Tour riders. Finally, by being more robust and resilient, you will be less likely to injure yourself lifting the kids out of the car, carrying shopping or working in the garden. Less time laid up with an injury means more time out on your bike. _
> 
> ...


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## Bill Gates (24 Nov 2019)

classic33 said:


> Monday gone. 6 days ago, is hardly history.




You might like to check out the date on the first post. errr 2009


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## classic33 (24 Nov 2019)

Bill Gates said:


> You might like to check out the date on the first post. errr 2009


Edited 08:38 Tuesday. 365 day editing ability, not 10 years.


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## Bill Gates (24 Nov 2019)

classic33 said:


> Edited 08:38 Tuesday. 365 day editing ability, not 10 years.


Look I said that the thread was from 2009, and it is. What are you going on about? How else can you bring a thread back unless you reply to it. The post itself did have a link included that was itself posted on another thread, but this is a subject in its own right rather than as an aside in a different thread that wasn't even in the training section.
Anyway so what? It doesn't diminish the thread at all. You're just splitting hairs


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## Nebulous (26 Nov 2019)

There is a loss of muscle mass as people get older, and there’s certainly an argument that all men over 40 should be doing some strength training. I’ve never bothered, but I’ve had some niggles this year and have just begun some body weight training. I’m doing squats, press ups and stretches. I gave up my gym membership two years ago when I bought a turbo and would be reluctant to start one again, hence the home efforts.


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## vickster (27 Nov 2019)

Nebulous said:


> There is a loss of muscle mass as people get older, and there’s certainly an argument that all men over 40 should be doing some strength training. I’ve never bothered, but I’ve had some niggles this year and have just begun some body weight training. I’m doing squats, press ups and stretches. I gave up my gym membership two years ago when I bought a turbo and would be reluctant to start one again, hence the home efforts.


Why only men?
Surely it would be beneficial for women too especially given our greater propensity for osteoporosis post menopause?


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## Nebulous (27 Nov 2019)

vickster said:


> Why only men?
> Surely it would be beneficial for women too especially given our greater propensity for osteoporosis post menopause?



Sorry - I didn't mean to exclude women. We have a family history of osteoporosis, in both men and women, and it has had a huge impact on some of my own relatives lives. 

I was going to say I don't know anything about women, but that doesn't sound right either, and is maybe something I should leave others to judge. What I mean is most if not all of my reading on the subject has been about men, with researchers particularly interested in the role testosterone plays in this. 

A quick google search throws up this: 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/preserve-your-muscle-mass (Ironically an article about men with the research done at a hospital billed as a woman's hospital.) 

And this from the NHS a study on men, where they ponder idly about whether the results might also apply to women: 

https://www.nhs.uk/news/older-people/could-age-related-muscle-weakening-be-prevented/

So strength exercises may be equally important to women, the chances are they are, but I don't know. I do know they are important for men however.


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## vickster (27 Nov 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Sorry - I didn't mean to exclude women. We have a family history of osteoporosis, in both men and women, and it has had a huge impact on some of my own relatives lives.
> 
> I was going to say I don't know anything about women, but that doesn't sound right either, and is maybe something I should leave others to judge. What I mean is most if not all of my reading on the subject has been about men, with researchers particularly interested in the role testosterone plays in this.
> 
> ...


Looks like loss of oestrogen in menopause also impacts strength in women
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ses-muscle-loss-in-women-after-menopause.aspx

https://www.livestrong.com/article/552788-muscle-loss-in-women-over-50/


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Feb 2020)

I do body weight exercises to complement the cycling. We have a trim trail in local park so it’s usually about four miles and mix of strength exercises at the stations. Twice a week plus try to swim once a week as well this time of year. Then down to once a week when I’m busier filling the days with cycling.


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## Racing roadkill (1 Feb 2020)

Do squats, ride lots, job jobbed.


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## ColinJ (1 Feb 2020)

I just visited my nephew, who has a chin-up bar in his kitchen doorway. I used to be able to easily knock out 20+ chin-ups, but today I had to give up trying to complete chin-up number...




... _*1.*_ I need to start doing some upper body exercise!


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## ColinJ (4 Feb 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I just visited my nephew, who has a chin-up bar in his kitchen doorway. I used to be able to easily knock out 20+ chin-ups, but today I had to give up trying to complete chin-up number...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm back at home now and have got my old chin-dip station out of storage. Yes, that is confirmed - I cannot even manage _one _chin-up! Admittedly, I now weigh about 11 kgs*** more than when I was doing chin-ups in the past, but I should still be able to do at least _some_.

I have come up with a way of measuring progress while I work my way back to being able to do them. I have put my bathroom scales below the chin-up bar and measured how much of my weight I can lift while attempting a chin-up. The answer - approximately 50 kgs***. I will plug away at it until I can pull my entire weight up. I am aiming to lose the surplus 11 kgs, so as I am getting stronger, I will also be getting lighter and that will make things a lot easier.

I am currently about 89 kgs, so 39 kgs short of target, but only 28 kgs short of the projected target.

When I am able to do at least one chin-up I will be able to stop using the scales and work on doing chin-up #2.#3 and so on.

I would also like to do dips and the other exercises that I used to do but I damaged both of my shoulders about 10 years ago and it doesn't take much to make them flare up again so I will have to be very careful. Chin-up forces don't seem to impact on the injured bits. 



***Before some smartypants points it out... Yes, I know that _MASS _is measured in kgs, but you know what I mean!


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