# Keep the use of cycle helmets optional HMG e-petition



## Archie_tect (31 Aug 2013)

Please vote to keep the use of cycle helmets optional....
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/54357


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## MarkF (31 Aug 2013)

Done.


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## growingvegetables (31 Aug 2013)

Me too!


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## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2013)

Me too.

A theory I came up with recently, while pootling along the backlanes of Norfolk with my daughter (like me, helmetless) and a friend and his daughter (like him, helmeted), in line with the research showing pretty conclusively that drivers are more careful around/considerate toward riders without helmets: when a driver sees a helmetless cyclist, (s)he subconsciously thinks: that's a person - one of Us - I must behave accordingly; when they see a helmeted cyclist, they subconsciously think: that's a bleedin' cyclist - one of Them - and behave differently. A helmet, in short, turns Us into Us & Them. As so often, a recipe for grief...


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## hopless500 (31 Aug 2013)

Done.


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## on the road (31 Aug 2013)

Done.


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## SpokeyDokey (31 Aug 2013)

Not done.


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## Spinney (31 Aug 2013)

Done


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## Sara_H (31 Aug 2013)

Done with knobs on.


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## Puddles (31 Aug 2013)

Bog Shiney Knobs!


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## Puddles (31 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2626646, member: 259"][/quote]
Big not bog, big which i spose is not much better, small person was assisting...


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## Kies (31 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2626644, member: 9609"]I am very happy for you to wear a helmet, but why do you object to me not wearing a helmet ?[/quote]

Where did that person object? Let's not turn this into YET ANOTHER helmet debate please. Sign the petition if you agree, leave it alone if you don't


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## Primal Scream (31 Aug 2013)

Done


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## numbnuts (31 Aug 2013)

Kies said:


> leave it alone if you don't


Done


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## Paulus (31 Aug 2013)

I'm in.


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## Moon bunny (31 Aug 2013)

Done.


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## SpokeyDokey (31 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2626644, member: 9609"]I am very happy for you to wear a helmet, but why do you object to me not wearing a helmet ?[/quote]


I never said that, I just said I haven't signed the petition which I assume is just as valid as all the 'done' posts.

You can do what you like with your head and I've no objection to it being helmet-less.


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## vernon (31 Aug 2013)

Shouldn't this be in the campaigning and public policy forum?

Just saying.


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## Kies (31 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2626668, member: 9609"]Going to the bother of posting "Not Done" heavily implies a fundamental disagreement with the petition. 

If you don't like helmet debates don't enter a thread with a title such as the one for this thread.[/quote]

Fair point - lets leave it there :-)


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## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2013)

vernon said:


> Shouldn't this be in the campaigning and public policy forum?
> 
> Just saying.


 
I think it needs to be where it will probably get the greatest number of signers...which is probably here.


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## theloafer (31 Aug 2013)

done


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## dave r (31 Aug 2013)

Done


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## snorri (31 Aug 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> I think it needs to be where it will probably get the greatest number of signers...which is probably here.


 ...but people with an interest in campaigning issues will miss it , and if campaigning issues are to be posted in The Cafe, then we might as well shut down Campaigning. 
The random selection of sections in which to post is just happens in another well known cycle forum thus making that forum fairly useless for promoting campaigning issues.
Mods., can we have this thread moved to Campaign please?


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## Accy cyclist (1 Sep 2013)

I've signed it. I don't want anyone thinking that i wear a helmet because i have to, and not because i want to.


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## Frood42 (1 Sep 2013)

signed


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## RWright (1 Sep 2013)

I am an alien so I didn't sign it, but I think it should be in every forum section.


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## threebikesmcginty (1 Sep 2013)

What's the likelihood of nonsense like this becoming law?


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## Paul99 (1 Sep 2013)

Done.


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## JtB (1 Sep 2013)

Will make no difference to me one way or the other so I didn't bother signing.


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## Bromptonaut (1 Sep 2013)

Signed, but it's not getting much real support is it?


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## Archie_tect (1 Sep 2013)

snorri said:


> ...but people with an interest in campaigning issues will miss it , and if campaigning issues are to be posted in The Cafe, then we might as well shut down Campaigning.
> The random selection of sections in which to post is just happens in another well known cycle forum thus making that forum fairly useless for promoting campaigning issues.
> Mods., can we have this thread moved to Campaign please?


If people look, they will see that the petition was first posted there. That's where I saw it and followed the link to sign the petition.

People clearly haven't seen it there so I thought it should be more widely known about.... in fact it should go viral so everyone has the choice to have their opinion heard.

The Mods [hopefully] already know it is a thread on Campaigning so no need to move it... in fact it would confuse people if they did....

I think if you care about freedom of choice, sign it. If you don't, don't but there is no need to start arguing about the pros or cons of wearing one.
People should have the right to choose... and though I don't necessarily agree with those who object to wearing one, they should have the right to do so.

As someone has said, it would be a ridiculous law to police.


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## Archie_tect (1 Sep 2013)

vernon said:


> Shouldn't this be in the campaigning and public policy forum?
> 
> Just saying.


It is.... see?
People don't know about it.... that's why I repeated it here.


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## threebikesmcginty (1 Sep 2013)

If it becomes law, I'll be a wrongdoer.


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## bianchi1 (1 Sep 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> What's the likelihood of nonsense like this becoming law?



No chance...the masses (73) of the cycling community, outraged by a non existent proposal to bring in a new law have spoken. The government are reconsidering the plan, which they have not made, in response to this overwhelming wave of public anger.


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## Toeclip (1 Sep 2013)

Done


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## Davidc (1 Sep 2013)

Done


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## swee'pea99 (1 Sep 2013)

Bromptonaut said:


> Signed, but it's not getting much real support is it?


It isn't is it? Have to say I'm surprised it's quite so quiet. You wouldn't expect hordes piling over the ramparts, but under 100 is thin to say the least.


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## numbnuts (1 Sep 2013)

swee'pea99 said:


> It isn't is it? Have to say I'm surprised it's quite so quiet. You wouldn't expect hordes piling over the ramparts, but under 100 is thin to say the least.


 
Maybe you have answered your own question


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## MontyVeda (1 Sep 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> What's the likelihood of nonsense like this becoming law?


well bearing in mind 'they' downgraded cannabis to a class c drug... then upgraded it again a year or so later, just goes to show that 'they' aren't very good at the thinking bit. And the more we see stories in the tabloid press about a cyclist smashing her teeth in on the side of a bus because she didn't check the brakes were functional before going out on her bike, resulting in a 'wear a helmet' article instead of a more logical 'check your brakes' article... the more likely it will happen. Hope not though.


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## swee'pea99 (1 Sep 2013)

'this nonsense' has become law in many countries/regions. It's not a non-starter by any means.


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## Sandra6 (1 Sep 2013)

I was really pleased to see this as the e petition to make helmets compulsory by law keeps popping up on my facebook timeline and I'm getting sick of non-cycling people telling me how to ride my bike and what to wear. 
A lot of the support for the "lets make helmets compulsory" seem to be coming from people affected by a story of a young lad who sadly is in a coma after an accident where he was knocked from his bike. He wasn't wearing a helmet as he didn't want to mess up his hair - so said his dad - but the feeling is that making it law would have changed that. Personally I think some people will do as they please regardless, and a law like this would not have saved this young boy. My opinion is not at all popular with the supporters of that petition though.


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## snorri (1 Sep 2013)

Archie_tect said:


> If people look, they will see that the petition was first posted there. .


Hi Archie_tect, sorry I had a bit of a rant last night. ;-)


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## Accy cyclist (1 Sep 2013)

They want to get up a petition to make cycle lights compulsory! IOh wait a minute,they are compulsory!The plod don't bother to pull knobheads up who cycle in the dark with no lights,not even reflectors,so would they chase after non helmet wearers? 
Knobheads with no lights affect other road users,especially cyclists and pedestrians who are sometimes hit by these creatures. Cyclists with no helmets affect only themselves, and their relatives if they end up in a coma!


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## Wobblers (2 Sep 2013)

Accy cyclist said:


> They want to get up a petition to make cycle lights compulsory! IOh wait a minute,they are compulsory!The plod don't bother to pull knobheads up who cycle in the dark with no lights,not even reflectors,so would they chase after non helmet wearers?
> Knobheads with no lights affect other road users,especially cyclists and pedestrians who are sometimes hit by these creatures. *Cyclists with no helmets affect only themselves, and their relatives if they end up in a coma*!



There's an invidious assumption in that statement: that helmets have a discernible effect in reducing the consequences of serious brain injury.


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## Archie_tect (2 Sep 2013)

Mrs A_T believes that it's dangerous to cycle on main roads mixing with vehicles travelling at high speeds, driven by people who are often not concentrating enough.... she believes that it is even more dangerous to do so without a small piece of moulded polystyrene on your head. To allay her genuine concern about my safety, I wear a helmet because I respect her her opinion.


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## Shut Up Legs (9 Oct 2013)

B#gger, I would have signed it too, but apparently it's against the rules . Please, _please_ don't let your government introduce a mandatory helmet law! Australia's a perfect example of why not: cycling here would be far more popular if it wasn't for that unnecessary removal of personal choice . Instead, the car rules over here, and our government's response to congestion is to just build more roads. It makes me despair, sometimes.


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## Archie_tect (9 Oct 2013)

Highways Departments assume that roads should be designed to allow people to drive as fast as they physically can so that the car or lorry driver can see as far ahead as possible to give them confidence to drive faster.... this is counter productive and turns our roads into raceways.... I wouldn't start from here...


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## dickyknees (9 Oct 2013)

Signed today


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## diapason (9 Oct 2013)

Signed today. The sooner that the 'magic hat' brigade realise that wearing a plastic egg box on one's head does NOT turn one into an invincible Superman, the better for all concerned.


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## EltonFrog (9 Oct 2013)

Not many sigs on there. I wonder why?


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## Archie_tect (9 Oct 2013)

It's not got the publicity it deserves.


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## EltonFrog (9 Oct 2013)

I signed it, not that give a toss about helmets, but more about not wanting a government dictating what I can and can not wear on a bike,


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Oct 2013)

diapason said:


> Signed today. The sooner that the 'magic hat' brigade realise that wearing a plastic egg box on one's head does NOT turn one into an invincible Superman, the better for all concerned.



Bit of a blanket and ignorent perspective IMHO. Not every person wearing a plastic egg box believes it makes them an invincible superman. many like myself choose to wear a helmet through choice based on researching the subject.... I fully support peoples right to choose but equally think that when some non helmet wearers stop trying to take the higher moral ground, and learn why people make the choice to wear a helmet and work towards addressing those issues, the better for all concerned


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## Twelve Spokes (10 Oct 2013)

I never received a head injury in the twenty five years + of cycling without a helmet but now choose to wear one.Weird innit?


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## avalon (10 Oct 2013)

Accy cyclist said:


> The plod don't bother to pull knobheads up who cycle in the dark with no lights,not even reflectors,so would they chase after non helmet wearers?


They do chase after non helmet wearers in Australia, It's usually much easier to catch a "criminal'' cyclist than it is a mugger, rapist, etc.


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## Roadrider48 (11 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2626644, member: 9609"]I am very happy for you to wear a helmet, but why do you object to me not wearing a helmet ?[/quote]
Where did spokey say that they objected to you not wearing a helmet? All that was written was "not done".


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## Roadrider48 (11 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2626668, member: 9609"]Going to the bother of posting "Not Done" heavily implies a fundamental disagreement with the petition.

If you don't like helmet debates don't enter a thread with a title such as the one for this thread.[/quote]
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. You just don't like it that they wear a helmet. Keep your opinions to yourself about other people. Especially when they haven't said anything.


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## junglegusset (11 Oct 2013)

avalon said:


> They do chase after non helmet wearers in Australia, It's usually much easier to catch a "criminal'' cyclist than it is a mugger, rapist, etc.



Do the police chase after them and then bludgeon them with a truncheon?


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## Roadrider48 (11 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2703229, member: 9609"]Yes it does

I am more than happy for other people to wear a helmet, i often wear one myself.

Posting on an internet forum invites other peoples opinions.

As all ready said, Posting "Not Done" in a thread that is inviting others to sign a petition is very much a statement against that petition.[/quote]
So no one is allowed to be against the petition then, is that what you're saying? It seems to me that you are bullying people into saying "I agree". Immediately jumping down the throats of anyone who dares to disagree with you. As you say "posting on an Internet forum invites other peoples opinions" which is exactly what you are doing. A petition can be opposed, it's not illegal or unheard of. It's called democracy, incase you didn't know.


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## avalon (11 Oct 2013)

junglegusset said:


> Do the police chase after them and then bludgeon them with a truncheon?


Only if you're Aboriginal.


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## Boris Bajic (11 Oct 2013)

Interesting that this petition has a few hundred signatures and the one asking for compulsion (started some months earlier) has nearly 9,000.

This is not an issue that really strikes a chord with many people, apart from the 'really keen ones' at both ends of the spectrum.

I do not take the prospect of compulsion very seriously. I think the best outcome in terms of these e-petitions is that one or other of the signature lists reaches the threshold (it looks more likely to be the pro-compulsion one) and the matter is debated in the House one cold Tuesday morning.

If there is a vote (and they really will have to have sod all else to do) and if MPs are given a free vote (as surely they must be) then the anti-compulsion side will carry the day and it will be put to bed.

However, since any debate in the House carries some risk, it strikes me as odd that a group or individual happy with the law as it is should seek to raise the profile of the dispute by starting an e-petition. Why encourage debate (which on this topic is rarely factual - despite protestations from both sides that only the other side is denying the facts) if the status quo suits you perfectly? 

I find it funny that it has only a few hundred signatories, even though it is a newish petition. It seems not to be the burning issue some took it for.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr....


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## Shut Up Legs (11 Oct 2013)

If I could sign it another 1000 times I would. I hate this frigging mandatory helmet law we're stuck with over here. All it does is reinforce the "cars rule" mentality Australia has.


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## Archie_tect (19 Oct 2013)

[QUOTE 2700693, member: 45"]This is why I'm not signing the stupid petition.[/quote]
Your choice... mind you if some loon brings a private member's bill and gets a compulsory helmet law passed one wet Monday afternoon in February, you may feel differently.


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## Archie_tect (19 Oct 2013)

That's true... I wasn't aware it wasn't in direct response to a government proposal until bianchi1 lambasted the petition on post 39... Still at least we know now and can keep an eye on it.


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## Mile195 (19 Oct 2013)

I wouldn't personally ride without one, but everybody should have the right to choose whether to or not. And I'd hate to see any legislation put people off taking up cycling, so it gets a vote from me too.


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