# difference between these two bikes please?



## mynydd (6 Jan 2020)

Hi
I had been planning on getting the cube when I could afford it, but have just seen this Scott, following another thread here. can anyone point out major differences please? I could probably go for the scott now........ and am a bit impatient 

this: https://www.cyclerepublic.com/scott...aign=FY20-Wk41-Winter-Sale-Bikes&utm_content=

or this : https://www.cube.eu/en/2019/e-bikes/trekking/tour/touring/cube-touring-hybrid-500-greynorange-2019/


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## Pale Rider (6 Jan 2020)

They are similar, fully equipped trekking bikes in the German style.

This Scott is clearly described as 2020, but it's the same model which was wrongly pictured on the Tredz site.

Assuming this time it is a 2020 bike, it has the most powerful Bosch motor of the latest design which is smaller, quieter, and easier to pedal unassisted than the previous year's.

The Cube has a slightly weaker version of the same motor, so it shares the same benefits, just with a bit less outright grunt.

Both bikes have the same capacity battery, but they are different shapes.

The Scott has the Powertube which is longer and narrower, and is designed to look more part of the bike.

The Cube has the alternative shape down tube battery, installed under a plastic cover.

The Powertube is not really designed to be handled, so is more aimed at on-bike charging.

The Cube's battery is stubbier, has a carry handle and is, er, handier if you want to take it off the bike regularly.

The Cube is the one to have if you think you may want to carry a spare, it will fit in a pannier or trunk bag.

The Powertube is too long for some bike luggage.

I'm sure you can weigh up the bike bits for yourself, but both bikes have reasonably good quality components.


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## mynydd (6 Jan 2020)

great, that's very helpful thanks very much.... will probably bite at the Scott then, will ponder it on my commute home ......


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## confusedcyclist (6 Jan 2020)

It's not one of your choices OP, but just for anyone else curious about the different battery styles, Trek adapt the powertube with a handle, I'm not personally aware of other brands that do, but it's not a given that they are all intended as solely on bike charging like that. They obviously have a charging port for off bike regardless.

Having tried carrying my 625 powertube battery without using the handle, I can say that it's very much needed. Carrying one without would increase your chances of accidentally dropping it, whilst they are robust you don't want to be accidentally dropping this from any height or near your foot, they are expensive to replace too. You'll be ok if you are careful though.


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## mynydd (6 Jan 2020)

ordered a large Scott 
I don’t intend to remove the battery as I’ll just charge overnight in my workshop when needed...... so that shouldn’t be an issue.
will hopefully make the hill I‘ve just huffed and puffed up a bit easier in the windy winter months


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## confusedcyclist (6 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> ordered a large Scott
> I don’t intend to remove the battery as I’ll just charge overnight in my workshop when needed...... so that shouldn’t be an issue.
> will hopefully make the hill I‘ve just huffed and puffed up a bit easier in the windy winter months


Just bear in mind, charging is ideally done at room temperature. Charging the battery in unheated outbuildings and garages can seriously damage the battery and may lead to a spontaneous fire/explosion.


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## Pale Rider (6 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> ordered a large Scott
> I don’t intend to remove the battery as I’ll just charge overnight in my workshop when needed...... so that shouldn’t be an issue.
> will hopefully make the hill I‘ve just huffed and puffed up a bit easier in the windy winter months



Should do the job.

Out of interest, did you establish if it does have the latest motor?

I wouldn't worry too much charging.

Bosch electrics are properly engineered, making them well behaved.

Unlike some of the cheap Chinese stuff, where sparks literally fly.


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## confusedcyclist (6 Jan 2020)

Here is where I learned about the risk of cold charging, see the top answer, clearly a very well informed individual;
https://electronics.stackexchange.c...atteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them

Personally, I still take my battery indoors all winter, even though my garage rarely falls below 10C (its integral), not an outbuilding like my last one that hovered around 3C in the coldest days. Apparently it's worth taking batteries indoors so it's relatively warm when starting out on long cold rides, that way you get the best possible range out of the battery. Also, storing at room temperature helps with longevity of the cells. Any protection of a significant capital investment in the battery seems sensible to me. Maybe I'm over doing it, especially in my 10C garage, who knows, maybe all that effort lugging it around isn't worth the extra 100 cycles I'll eek out of it. (I have no idea how many more cycles I'll get in reality, I'm just following the user manual instructions) 

In the spring, I'll stop taking it indoors though!

P.S. Enjoy your new bike!


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## mynydd (6 Jan 2020)

I didn’t check the motor to be honest...... I‘ve pondered enough and thought that at 40ish quid a month on interest free even the older one would make my commute significantly easier...... I’ll report back when it arrives.
thanks for The charging in the cold info...... I’ll keep an eye on the thermometer


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## mynydd (6 Jan 2020)

Interestingly I‘ve just noticed that the link I posted is now for the 2019 model....... it was definitely the 2020 model I ordered and it says so on my email receipt......... I suspect an error has been realised and quickly rectified..... so I guess I’ll end up with a 2019 model........... though I think I’d have grounds for a complaint if I could be bothered.....


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## Pale Rider (6 Jan 2020)

The size difference can be seen in the two photos in this link.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/performance-line-my19-20/


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## mynydd (9 Jan 2020)

Bike just arrived..... it’s definitely the 2019 version and not the one in the picture, or what my email receipt said, which was clearly 2020. I’ve mentioned it to them, but not too bothered as it does seem a really good solid bike with fairly decent spec for the money.
most annoying thing is that its only come with a continental plug! Actually that’s really annoying........ 
have given it a short ride and it made total mincemeat of what is normally a really horrible long climb.... will try it out properly on The commute tomorrow


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## Pale Rider (9 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> Bike just arrived..... it’s definitely the 2019 version and not the one in the picture, or what my email receipt said, which was clearly 2020. I’ve mentioned it to them, but not too bothered as it does seem a really good solid bike with fairly decent spec for the money.
> most annoying thing is that its only come with a continental plug! Actually that’s really annoying........
> have given it a short ride and it made total mincemeat of what is normally a really horrible long climb.... will try it out properly on The commute tomorrow



The main difference is, as you now know, the newer motor is easier to pedal unassisted.

I agree it's not worth making a fuss about.

If I wanted to ride unassisted I'd save a lot of money and buy a lightweight pushbike.

You could stand on your rights over the charging lead.

It is against Euro consumer law to supply a lead with anything other than a standard, three pin plug.

Any in-line figure of eight charging lead will do - you probably have one or two knocking about on other gadgets.

About a fiver from Amazon.

View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/slp/figure-8-power-lead/rokja7tf3pss7ya


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## cookieZ (9 Jan 2020)

Looking forward to your appraisal mynydd as i have also been considering this bike.


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## mynydd (9 Jan 2020)

yes, I found an old lead pretty quickly, so its now charging up for tomorrow. tbh it wasn't too bad when riding unassisted.... and I've a nice carbon canyon for that anyway 
will report back here tomorrow evening, or Sat cookieZ when I've given it a proper workout. though as mentioned above I was pretty impressed during the short ride earlier.


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## mynydd (10 Jan 2020)

Well....... wow! That was fun.
I’ve an eight mile commute and live at 1300 feet and work at sea level. The way in, all downhill apart from a couple of small hills, without the motor switched on was great, felt solid and safe with fantastic braking.
the way home as something else! It cut my commute from an hour (in good weather) to 35 minutes (with a strong headwind).... flying up hills at 15 miles an hour is something I could get quite used to. Got home feeling much fresher than normal, but still feel I’ve had a fairly decent workout.
I think I’m going to enjoy this, the plan is to mix it up and use this bike in the worst weather..... but will probably just use this for the next few weeks as it’s such good fun.
will prob change the saddle at some point as it’s a bit wide..... other than that..... Brilliant!


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## confusedcyclist (10 Jan 2020)

Yes, it always surprises me how much work you put in, you've got to to keep the pace going on the climbs, I know I'm doing it because of the power meter, but you just feel energised and ready to go again. It's got to be the endorphins.

Also need to swap my saddle, but despite it's lack of suitability, because you're not hammering the pedals, it feels like pretty much anything would do


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## cookieZ (10 Jan 2020)

mynydd, please could you say which level of assistance you selected for the uphill climb home and approx how much battery life was left?, also, do you think this bike is suitable for off road gravel tracks?, many thanks.


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## mynydd (10 Jan 2020)

Hi cookieZ it was an experimental ride home, so I was playing around with all settings etc...... I used tour most of the way then cranked it up to sport and turbo for the last, very hilly bit. Used about a third of the battery. Bike would be great for basic off road and gravel tracks I’d imagine.... it’s very solid. But definitely not a mountain bike.


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## Pale Rider (11 Jan 2020)

mynydd said:


> Used about a third of the battery.



Worth bearing in mind battery use according to the indicator is not linear, it will accelerate as the battery declines.

There's also battery 'sag' which means you need to draw more from a depleted battery to feel the same level of assistance.

Hills sap the battery faster than anything.

In mixed terrain on Tour setting I would expect a range of between 40 and 50 miles, which looks like where you are heading.

You may get a little more out of the battery after a handful of charge cycles.


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## mynydd (11 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> You may get a little more out of the battery after a handful of charge cycles.


any advice on battery charging? advice online is mixed..... some saying fully charge after each ride.... others saying only recharge to 80 percent..... some saying don't let it run right down.... others saying you should...


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## Pale Rider (11 Jan 2020)

The Bosch motor has fairly advanced battery management electronics which will largely keep you out of trouble.

Leaving the battery full charged for a prolonged period - months - is to be avoided.

Battery management will prevent you over charging it, and also prevent you over discharging it.

The motor will cut out a little while before the battery is dead flat, because being run dead flat is another thing batteries don't like.

That's also done to preserve some power for the lights to enable you to cycle home, unassisted but safely, in the dark.

In your case, you may as well charge for a couple of hours or so every day on commuting days, but not worry too much about charging brim full.

Neither is there any need to worry if you forget and leave it charging overnight - battery management will look after it.


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## mynydd (11 Jan 2020)

Brilliant, thanks for the reply. Much appreciated


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## CXRAndy (11 Jan 2020)

Its also recommended not to go below 20% very often. So Keep battery in between 20-85% will double to triple the amount of charges it will take.


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## Notafettler (13 Jan 2020)

@Pale Rider
As you are clearly very knowledgeable I was wondering if you have any recommendations.
I am looking for decent quality bike with the best Bosch motor. Hub gears but preferably not shimano 8. A real pain to get the gears reconnected after taking the wheel of. Large battery easily removed. Prefer it to take wide tyres for off road use. Will need to pull trailer. With coffee holder, the latter is not a deal breaker!
Ta


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## CXRAndy (13 Jan 2020)

Riese and Mueller Supercharger with Rohloff hub. Expensive

An option is to get wide tyre, Rohloff or Alfine 11. standard bike and retro fit a Bafang motor. Much much cheaper


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## Pale Rider (13 Jan 2020)

I was just bashing out a reply to say Riese and Muller.

Lots of models, all lots of money.

They offer Rohloff hub bikes and the cheaper, unusual, continuously variable Enviolo.

Other than that, I suspect it may have to be a Shimano hub.

https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/


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## Notafettler (14 Jan 2020)

This is pinion or is it the Enviola as says continuously variable?

https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/swing3/swing3-vario-urban/#F00283_042907 

Rohloff is I think overkill. 
Another problem I have with shimano 8 is spin out (that's what I call it) when I change gear on a hill I loose momentum. I think the gap between gears is not normal.
I was hoping for an 11 speed shimano if if I recall right it was easy to reconnect the gears. 

The riese & Muller are certainly quality bikes. I will have to do a search and save on Ebay. 

A quick check on there site 
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/swing3/swing3-vario-urban/#F00283_042907
Thank you for your time


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## Notafettler (14 Jan 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Riese and Mueller Supercharger with Rohloff hub. Expensive



*Supercharger GX rohloff £*6,339.00 expensive, you think!!


CXRAndy said:


> An option is to get wide tyre, Rohloff or Alfine 11. standard bike and retro fit a Bafang motor. Much much cheaper


Not off hand fan of retro fit. But worth looking at. Thanks


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## Pale Rider (14 Jan 2020)

Pinion is a gearbox that sits under the bottom bracket.

There are a couple of expensive ebikes that have it, but of course it can usually only work with a hub motor.

Enviolo is a stepless hub gear.

It looks the same as any other hub gear, but is continuously variable.

Different riding experience which I wasn't too keen on, but might get used to if I had one.

There are ebikes with the Shimano Alfine 11 which does have better ratios then the seven and eight speeds.

I had one.

Connecting the cable was simple, but only just possible with fingers.

To be sure, you would need to carry a small pair of pin nose pliers.


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## Notafettler (14 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> There are ebikes with the Shimano Alfine 11 which does have better ratios then the seven and eight speeds.
> 
> I had one.
> 
> ...


So shimano 11 is also a pain to reconnect but not as big a pain as shimano 8?


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## Notafettler (14 Jan 2020)

@Pale Rider 
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/swing2/swing2-vario/#F00281_0604
I the spec they mention both pinion and enviolo
Thanks?


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## Pale Rider (14 Jan 2020)

The pinion in the spec of that bike is a heading, it's how the Germans describe a sprocket.

That bike has an Enviolo/NuVinci pinion - sprocket.

A Rohloff bike described in those terms would have Rohloff pinion, or a Gates one if it had a belt.

The Pinion (capital P) gearbox is a bottom bracket gearbox made by a company called Pinion.

It can be fitted to pushbikes or ebikes.

https://pinion.eu/en/


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## CXRAndy (14 Jan 2020)

The ratios are almost identical between 8sp and 11sp Shimano hubs. Its only the last 3 gears which give a higher top speed


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## Pale Rider (14 Jan 2020)

Notafettler said:


> So shimano 11 is also a pain to reconnect but not as big a pain as shimano 8?



I've not done an eight for a while, and they may vary a little bit.

Disconnecting an 11 is a bit of a pain at the roadside, and may not be possible with your fingers, depending on their strength and dexterity.

Most ebikes have puncture resistant tyres, and there's always the option of a Gaadi snake tube which you could fit without taking off the wheel.

Bear in mind you would probably want to remove the old tube completely which would mean slicing it, so you would have to carry a craft knife or similar.

https://gaadi.de/?lang=en



CXRAndy said:


> The ratios are almost identical between 8sp and 11sp Shimano hubs. Its only the last 3 gears which give a higher top speed



Yes, I should have said the 11 has a wider ratio spread.

Worth having in my view, although plenty of riders manage happily on an eight speed.


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## samsbike (14 Jan 2020)

I must confess I have an eight speed and it works fine for me, but then I dont have many hills


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## CXRAndy (15 Jan 2020)

samsbike said:


> I must confess I have an eight speed and it works fine for me, but then I dont have many hills



The Alfine 11 is better suited to flats, so you can take advantage of gears 9 to 11 for higher top speed.

You will have the same lowest gearing on both Alfine 8 or 11

Shimano Alfine-11​409%0.530.680.770.881.001.131.291.4611.671.892.15

Shimano Inter-8​307%0.530.640.750.851.001.221.421.62


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## CXRAndy (15 Jan 2020)

If I was thinking of building a new ebike, wanted everything, power, big tyres, racks and lights. I would look for a single speed or 11 speed Shimano hub donor bike. I would then opt for Bafang BBSHD crank drive. 

You could have a super dooper for less than £2k

Its all well and good these top end bikes but £6k is way too much.


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## Notafettler (15 Jan 2020)

I would be happy with 8 speed if wasn't such a pain to put back on. Although I found the gap between gears very annoying. Top speed is irrelevant as I only use it to pull trailers so it is dodgy to cycle to fast (brake to hard and trailer will overtake. The enviolo looks like an obvious way of dealing with the gap between gears. I have used the snake before I think something went wrong with it. Although I can't think what. I nearly always have a pen knife with me. Thanks all


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## mynydd (29 Jan 2020)

Three weeks in, and I can’t get enough of the Scott sub sport..... it’s making a massive difference to my daily routine.... still getting a decent amount of exercise, just without half killing my self in the final climbs home. Only, minor, issue is battery removal.....
Have tried loads if different methods, and it’s just really really clunky and sometimes takes ages to get it back in. Any advice? I can’t find anything online, and there were no instructions. I can live with it, but just checking I’m not missing anything obvious. Thanks.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jan 2020)

I'm not familiar with the Bosch Powertube frame fixing, but I take it you are aware of the on bike charging port.

Not everyone has a power point near to where they store their bike, but if you do there's no need to remove the battery from one month to the next.


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## mynydd (30 Jan 2020)

Yes that’s what I normally use, and will continue to.
Wanted to charge it off the bike a few times recently, and was amazed at how poorly thought out the battery mounting was, just wondered if I might be missing something. Thanks


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## Wyn Davies (1 Feb 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Should do the job.
> 
> Out of interest, did you establish if it does have the latest motor?
> 
> ...


I am on my second ebike the battery say that they have Samsung cells the first was definitely Chinese with Samsung cells having said that I never had a problem with them.


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