# Conifer planting



## Mr. Cow (15 Aug 2021)

Hey,

Recently bought a place and finally have my own gardens  problem is I am a complete novice when it comes to gardening.
At the moment the front is just a paved driveway and strip of grass. I'd like to plant some hedging along the edges of the grass for a bit of privacy. Not decided on the type of hedging yet, was thinking conifers of some sort.
To reduce weeds coming up can I use a weed membrane? If so do I plant the hedges on top of the weed membrane as this way I can't see how the roots can take hold but then how else would the weeds be prevented from coming up. Or do I put the weed membrane down afterwards?

I am thinking of topping off with decorative slate/shingles. But if doing this how do you then periodically mulch? As this would mean removing the slate which sounds like a right faff.

Also if I am topping off with slate do I need a weed membrane at all or will the slate reduce the weeds popping up?

Thanks


----------



## Randomnerd (15 Aug 2021)

Please consider hedging other than conifer. There’s plenty of fab choices - beech, hornbeam, thorns, holly, yellow privet, field maple, hazel - which would be beautiful. The plants might be sown and grow from local seed if you find a good nursery.
If you indicate where you are geographically, I’d be happy to suggest something suitable for the place. Here’s a good guide for starters

 https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/articles/misc/best-native-shrubs-for-hedging

if you are to use a weed membrane, get a good one of trade standard, heavily woven. Terram is my choice for landscaping jobs, when specified A local landscaper may sell you a bit of a roll-end. Eventually, all landscaping textiles start to degrade and add to plastic waste. You plant through slits cut in the textile, into well-prepared loamy soil. Your hedge plants should be 40-60 cm bare-rooted plants, and will easily plant into an L shaped slit in the textile and soil. Smaller plants will grow more vigorously and be more cost effective. For an average hedge, plant 8 plants per metre in two staggered rows 40 - 50 cm apart. Slate on top to dress.

I wouldn’t use textile membrane. Plant roots need to breathe IMO. For best results, I would plant into well-prepared bare soil and mulch heavily after - at least 7cms deep, with well seasoned wood chips from a friendly tree surgeon. Top up as required. A wooden kerb edge to the bed will keep the mulch from blowing about, and you could even top it off with slate to suit. And keep the mulch from choking the base of the plants - they need to be able to breathe at the nursery collar (the swelling on the stem just above the root). If you have a handy supply of cardboard packaging, this laid down round in several layers around the planted hedge with 5cm of slate on top would work. 

Failing all that, bare soil is fine, and hoe any weeds regularly, until the hedge is in good shape. Plant shade loving ground cover under the established hedge - japanese spurge grows very well in shade and is a great thing to prevent weeds..

HTH


----------



## midlife (15 Aug 2021)

I'd be tempted to put up some fencing and plant in front of it, instant privacy plus the vista will change throughout the year. Tree would be nice. Our Stocks looking good at the moment in the bed I can see from here. OK in the winter all there is are the bare bones but at that time of the year I go to work in the dark and come back in the dark.


----------



## annedonnelly (15 Aug 2021)

If you do end up with conifers you'll probably find that nothing grows underneath them :-( Go to any of those commercial forest type places and see how barren the understorey is.

Get some nice berry bearing shrubs to help the wildlife - flowers in spring for pollinators & berries later for the birds. And autumn colour for you.


----------



## Chief Broom (15 Aug 2021)

annedonnelly said:


> If you do end up with conifers you'll probably find that nothing grows underneath them :-( Go to any of those commercial forest type places and see how barren the understorey is.
> 
> Get some nice berry bearing shrubs to help the wildlife - flowers in spring for pollinators & berries later for the birds. And autumn colour for you.


I was thinking of cotoneaster species depending on situation or Japanese quince which come in a variety of colours. Another option would be some post and wires to support a climber like honey suckle, Lots of options other than conifers!


----------



## annedonnelly (15 Aug 2021)

@Chief Broom - all sounds good to me. Honeysuckle/clematis could be allowed to scramble through other shrubs.


----------



## postman (15 Aug 2021)

Conifers take them out,you will thank us in a few years time.Ugly things in a few years.Plant Yew,it's a soft looking hedge if that makes sense,easy to cut,Wentworth Castle has some so do two of my neighbours,no no no conifers.


----------



## KnittyNorah (15 Aug 2021)

Even privet is about 100 times better than the usual things sold as hedging conifers - PLEASE don't consider them. Get _proper_ hedge-y plants not mutant ninja triffids - or, as others have suggested, a fence you can grow lovely climbing things up and around and over.


----------



## Dave7 (15 Aug 2021)

As above.....stay away from conifers.
We have a large garden and planted them around 2 sides.
(One of) the worst decisions we ever made ........for all the above reasons.


----------



## Chief Broom (15 Aug 2021)

Mr. Cow said:


> Hey,
> 
> Recently bought a place and finally have my own gardens  problem is I am a complete novice when it comes to gardening.
> At the moment the front is just a paved driveway and strip of grass. I'd like to plant some hedging along the edges of the grass for a bit of privacy. Not decided on the type of hedging yet, was thinking conifers of some sort.
> ...


If you could post a pic or two that would help all the gardeners/landscapers here to give advice on choice of hedging. Without seeing the site its too hard to know! Hedging can be a 2ft box hedge or a clipped line of beech 50ft tall


----------



## ianbarton (15 Aug 2021)

Not Conifers.

If you want something that grows relatively quickly you could use quickthorn/hawthorn. Plant about three per metre and put some rabbit guards on them. Spray roundup around the bottoms twice a year to control the weeds.


----------



## purpan (15 Aug 2021)

You can also develop quite bad allergies to conifers, in particular cypress. It can take a few years.


----------



## Gillstay (15 Aug 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> Please consider hedging other than conifer. There’s plenty of fab choices - beech, hornbeam, thorns, holly, yellow privet, field maple, hazel - which would be beautiful. The plants might be sown and grow from local seed if you find a good nursery.
> If you indicate where you are geographically, I’d be happy to suggest something suitable for the place. Here’s a good guide for starters
> 
> https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/articles/misc/best-native-shrubs-for-hedging
> ...


As a professional horticulturalist I have to say that's a brilliant answer to the question !


----------



## PaulSB (15 Aug 2021)

Can I just point out that yew is a conifer. It's just about the only one worth considering as an urban hedging plant.

May I make an alternative suggestion? Tall grasses will provide a distinct boundary, lots of movement and colour throughout the year and relatively quick to establish.

Many good ideas have been put forward for traditional hedging plants but why not do something a little different?


----------



## Kingfisher101 (17 Aug 2021)

Just to agree you dont want conifers, they grow like wildfire and cost a fortune if you want to get rid of them as well. Plus you'll be spending all your spare time and money trimming them down.
I'd get a fence, job done.


----------



## Gillstay (17 Aug 2021)

Nope, only fast growing conifers grow fast. My car mechanic asked for good advice and had the sense to plant a slow growing conifer, so he trims it once every two years ! 20yrs later he has only trimmed it 10 times !


----------



## PK99 (17 Aug 2021)

I'm with the consensus - avoid conifers esp leylandii. Quick growing but a nightmare of hard work to control after a few years and such life from the soil around.

Yew is by far the best hedging plant.

Whatever you plant, there are three things to bear in mind:
1. Preparation.
2. Preparation.
3. Preparation.

1. Dig a trench 30cm deep.
2. Break up the base and incorporate well rotted manure.
3. Ideally, but depending on the quality of your soil, remove the excavated soil and replace with high quality top soil mixed with organic material/soil improver.
4. Plant into that trench.

Hard work but you won't regret it.

If you need a decent number of plants find a local trade hedging nursery, they will be happy to deal with bulk order. It's cash they are after! No need to pay retail price! You will be astonished at the saving.

Best planting height is 1m. Good compromise between instant impact, cost and speed of growth.

Keep well watered for first 2 growing seasons, then unless drought occasional soaks should be enough.


----------



## KnittyNorah (17 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> Yew is by far the best hedging plant.



You can't be so prescriptive - it _depends. _Yew is a simply _terrible_ hedging plant if any stock are likely to get access to it. 
My preference for an evergreen hedge would usually be holly - a deterrent to intruders and wonderful for wildlife, but again it _depends_ ...


----------



## Chief Broom (18 Aug 2021)

My choice for a barrier which doesn't need to be dense would be an apple or pear espalier. yes i know it would take a few years to establish but worth it long term. Good for neighbourly relations too! i trained up a thornless black berry farther along and told Fred my neighbour to help himself and he would make a black berry/ apple crumble.


----------



## Dave7 (18 Aug 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> Just to agree you dont want conifers, they grow like wildfire and cost a fortune if you want to get rid of them as well. Plus you'll be spending all your spare time and money trimming them down.
> I'd get a fence, job done.


Why didn't YOU warn ME of that 30 years ago.
Cost me a fortune in clipping/cutting back over the years.


----------



## PK99 (18 Aug 2021)

Dave7 said:


> Why didn't YOU warn ME of that 30 years ago.
> Cost me a fortune in clipping/cutting back over the years.



Leylandii?


----------



## bikingdad90 (18 Aug 2021)

@Mr. Cow before you go and plant anything it is worth checking your deeds to see if fences or hedges are prohibited? We can’t put either in our front garden.


----------



## PK99 (18 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> You can't be so prescriptive - it _depends. _Yew is a simply _terrible_ hedging plant if any stock are likely to get access to it.
> My preference for an evergreen hedge would usually be holly - a deterrent to intruders and wonderful for wildlife, but again it _depends_ ...



You are right of course in any location where farm livestock are present.

But Holly is a (literal) pain to maintain and growth is slow.


----------



## Sterlo (18 Aug 2021)

As others have said, NO, NO, NO to conifers. We were the same, moved from a house with no garden to quite a large garden with lots of trees, mainly conifers. I've then spent the last 3 years taking most of them out (8 removed to date), with still more to do. Plant something more manageable or put a fence up.


----------



## alicat (18 Aug 2021)

Congrats on getting a garden @Mr. Cow. Hope you enjoy it


----------



## Alex321 (18 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> You are right of course in any location where farm livestock are present.
> 
> But Holly is a (literal) pain to maintain and growth is slow.



TBH, I also wouldn't want to risk yew if you have small children (or grandchildren). They are nearly as likely to put bits of it in their mouth as livestock would be.

Absolutely agree about not conifers in general, and many of the other suggestions are good.


----------



## JoeyB (18 Aug 2021)

Dave7 said:


> As above.....stay away from conifers.
> We have a large garden and planted them around 2 sides.
> (One of) the worst decisions we ever made ........for all the above reasons.


Our neighbour has done the same on the edge of his garden that borders with us, they are a ballache as they constantly need cutting back (we can no longer slide our fence panels out) and the roots are a nightmare, I'm worried they will push our patio up eventually.


----------



## Dave7 (18 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> Leylandii?


Yep


----------



## Tail End Charlie (18 Aug 2021)

Some great suggestions here, I'd agree with them all, depending on the situation. 
Can I add escallonia, beautiful evergreen, stands clipping, bees and butterflies love it and a range of blossom colours (from white, through pink to a deep red). 
I think you've probably got the message by now, but I'll say in any case - not conifers, especially leylandii, which is what everyone means.


----------



## ianbarton (18 Aug 2021)

Tail End Charlie said:


> I think you've probably got the message by now, but I'll say in any case - not conifers, especially leylandii, which is what everyone means.


Luckily Leylandii has very shallow routes. If you have access to a HiMac you can just pull them out of the ground.


----------



## Mr. Cow (18 Aug 2021)

Thanks for all the responses, some really good suggestions. I've decided to not bother with conifers after reading all this - sounds like I'd be causing myself a hole heap of problems with them in future. Instead, I'll erring to something more native like holly perhaps? These seem good for security but not sure if they'll be dense enough? At least the birds will like them during the winter 

Is it OK to cover hedge soil beds with decorative slate? As mentioned this is to reduce weeds coming up but also to hopefully discourage cats using them as a toilet. Do hedges need periodic mulching as this would mean removing the slate..?


----------



## KnittyNorah (18 Aug 2021)

Mr. Cow said:


> Do hedges need periodic mulching as this would mean removing the slate..?


I'm sure they would appreciate a mulch - how much depends on your soil and the preparation you do prior to planting - but it's not essential as long as you've prepared well prior to planting - a foliar feed of seaweed solution or something else appropriate would be of benefit. Mind you any topping - even a stone/slate one - will degrade and shift over time; a garden - all of it, even the stone bits - is an organic, living thing so you mustn't expect the slate to stay looking the same year after year unless it's on concrete or something! The big problem with something like a slate covering, as I see it, is that underplanting of bulbs, shade-loving plants and the like is made difficult or impossible. 
Holly grows slowly but that does minimise the work involved in yearly maintenance, and you can get some pretty variegated ones too which, if interspersed with 'normal' ones, can 'lift' a plain expanse of greenness. Just don't be fooled by some of the variegated's names - you need a female holly to berry, and some of the varietals have male names but are female plants, and vice versa!


----------



## Tail End Charlie (18 Aug 2021)

If you're wanting prickly plants, look at pyracantha (birds love the berries especially red ones) or berberis (super spring colour). Both make a very dense hedge and can cope with and any amount of pruning. Osmanthus is very similar to holly with some lovely variegated varieties. 
Personally I think slate is a waste of money, the shrubs above will become so dense that even cats can't get through. Whilst they're growing plant anything else to cover the bare soil, which is what attracts the cats.


----------

