# I would appear to have bought...



## GrumpyGregry (30 Apr 2014)

... a tandem.

Off fleabay. A 90's 531 Orbit marathon frame with a kiddyback. TLH is very short and has a 'thing' about cross bars you see.

Collect it Saturday from some bloke in Epsom. What could possibly go wrong?

If TLH hates it I reckon selling it locally will be fairly easy.

We shall see how we get on assuming it doesn't kill me on the ride back from Epsom.


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## MisterStan (30 Apr 2014)

If TLH is not sold, then I'd like to have a look if I may. 

It's SWMBO's birthday next month....


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Apr 2014)

[QUOTE 3054877, member: 45"]Oooh, that sounds fun. How much?[/QUOTE]
I set a ceiling of £400. I got the bike for £355. Which felt a little high, to be honest, maybe 10% - 12% ott for what it is, but it seems an honest enough bike so far as one can tell from the slightly poor quality pictures/description from an honest enough seller. I did particularly want a child back and preferred steel from a decent marque so I think I've done ok.

Was slightly frustrated when I saw a Thorn Voyager adult-adult go for £360.01 just down the road from me in Worthing... but of course neither seat would suit TLH.

This looks a potential bargain but was too far from home for me to collect sans car.

This looks a steal for the BIN money but was too far from home as well.

Got outbid on this one too.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Apr 2014)

MisterStan said:


> If TLH is not sold, then I'd like to have a look if I may.
> 
> It's SWMBO's birthday next month....


Noted.


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## fossala (30 Apr 2014)

I have a child back orbit tandem for me and my 7 year old lad, we love it.


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## srw (30 Apr 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I set a ceiling of £400. I got the bike for £355. Which felt a little high, to be honest, maybe 10% - 12% ott for what it is, but it seems an honest enough bike so far as one can tell from the slightly poor quality pictures/description from an honest enough seller. I did particularly want a child back and preferred steel from a decent marque so I think I've done ok.
> 
> Was slightly frustrated when I saw a Thorn Voyager adult-adult go for £360.01 just down the road from me in Worthing... but of course neither seat would suit TLH.
> 
> ...


Wow. Bargains all. The way to resolve the cross-bar issue is to get her comfortable with the idea of just sitting there until you've stopped. Mrs W used to love a mixte frame too, because she wanted to have a quick hop-off if necessary. She is now reconciled to the idea that when she's not pedalling her job is to be a passenger and enjoy the ride.


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## srw (30 Apr 2014)

Actually, of that lot, apart from the Thorn (Thorns are great but extremely ...erm... well-engineered) the Orbit is the one that comes closest to looking as if it might be a real tandem-riders machine rather than just a bike for two people.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 May 2014)

The seller has almost as many bikes as me and some quite a bit more exotic than the content of my shed. They've culled their fleet of three tandems, his children all now riding solo's, this being the last to go and they have Mercian tandem on order! 60km a day round trip commuter. He took £350 in the end as neither of us had a fiver for change.

Orbit 531ST tube set, 531 fork, Mavic rims with 48 spokes on the back, sheet rim brakes; heart-stoppingly bad 90's technology and poorly set up to boot, dia-compe canti's up front and a diacompe caliper made of very flexy alloy, both of which are wooden and need a vice like grip to operate. Aria drum drag brake. Cinelli bars up front which are too narrow for me, Shimano bar end shifter for rear mech and drag, frame mount lever for front mech, eccentric bottom bracket, new vittoria tyres front and rear, everything works as it should and though it weighs a ton, once rolling you don't really notice. Mega-range 8 speed cassette/freewheel so climbing solo is a cinch and should be fairly easy two up.

40km after collecting it I find myself well pleased. Off to the park later with TLH to practise falling off it on the grass.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 May 2014)

srw said:


> Actually, of that lot, apart from the Thorn (Thorns are great but extremely ...erm... well-engineered) the Orbit is the one that comes closest to looking as if *it might be a real tandem-riders machine* rather than just a bike for two people.


I think in it's day, early- mid-90's, it probably was. Gotta sort the brakes out somehow before it goes near a road two up though.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 May 2014)

So. An update of sorts.

The brakes.... hmmmm.... extensive measuring with a steel ruler suggests sticking with the wide profile canti's up front is almost certainly going to be Hobson's choice unless I have the canti stud mounts rebrazed. The fork dates from before the mtb boom when the big S standardised the canti gap as 85mm. Modern low profile canti's or V's simply won't fit so I will have to work on fettling the set up of the original Dia Compe 980's, adding Salmon KoolStops, or try some of the modern frogleg style cantis. The original Dia Compe's are currently fitted with a 330 mm double ended straddle cable when they would have originally come with a double ended 250mm one and I don't see the long straddle as helping performance one bit.







The current brake levers aren't a matching pair but I have some spares in the shed and a pair of cross top levers are going on as well, and new cables fore and aft, paying careful attention to routing.

The rear caliper brake is a single pivot dia compe ?810? pos so that is going in the parts box and a tektro nut fitting deep drop dual pivot has been ordered, as have new shoes for the Arai drum which I'm going to strip and clean and fettle as at present it won't lock the rear wheel riding one up. As it should, or so I'm told, by those in the know.

TLH has been out on the back, in the safety of the local park for half-an-hour, and, though we did end up in a hedge once, declared she had enjoyed the experience and is keen to gain more.


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## srw (7 May 2014)

You might consider wiring both rim brakes to the same lever, with the drag brake on the second lever - that was the setup on the first tandem we tried. I don't think I'd like using a bar-end shifter for a brake - it would need too much pressure to maintain it on.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 May 2014)

srw said:


> You might consider wiring both rim brakes to the same lever, with the drag brake on the second lever - that was the setup on the first tandem we tried. I don't think I'd like using a bar-end shifter for a brake - it would need too much pressure to maintain it on.



Thanks for the advice. I'll consider anything!

I'm told, by the guys at SJS amongst others, and from reading the various forums, that with a caliper rear and old skool wide canti front that way lies madness and endless near permanent fettling. The bar end shifter is indexed/has detents which _seem_ to hold it in place ok but only time, and more experience, will tell if that is what will work two up. What with me being a big unit.

TLH may have to become queen of the stoker operated drag brake otherwise. I guess it is all setup for captain operation now given the back seat was strictly children-only in its former life.

First challenge is to convert the brakes from European to UK setup with the front on the right lever, and get the front brake working better, the picture shows it post fettling which improved it to the level of merely slightly unsettling one-up rather than utterly terrifying, and I've got some Koolstops on order. After that I have a cunning plan involving some Shimano CX70 canti's which, according to the Shimano tech docs can cope with 65mm bosses with rims 22 mm wide. My rims are wider so I'd need to find an extra 4 - 6 mm which looks do-able by swapping out washers and/or using thinline pads/holders and I can retain the existing straddle if need be, albeit shortened and cut, as the CX70/CX50 has a clamp on one end and ball on t'other. Only source of the correct 250mm straddles I can find is in US of A and they don't ship outside North America!

(Edit: before fettling the straddle wire was resting on the canti pivot and the canti arm was pointing down at a shallow angle, towards the floor)

Current back brake is for decoration only.


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## rvw (8 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> TLH may have to become queen of the stoker operated drag brake otherwise.


Clearly you have much more faith in TLH than srw does in me!


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## GrumpyGregry (8 May 2014)

rvw said:


> Clearly you have much more faith in TLH than srw does in me!


Perhaps TLH has much less faith in me than you do in srw?


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## procel (8 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> After that I have a cunning plan involving some Shimano CX70 canti's.



I just put CX70s on the front of the tandem I'm building (with long-drop Tektro calipers on the back). They seem to work I've not measured the rim width but they take 28-45mm tyres and pass the brakes fine (although I've got to let air out of the tyre).


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## GrumpyGregry (8 May 2014)

procel said:


> I just put CX70s on the front of the tandem I'm building (with long-drop Tektro calipers on the back). They seem to work I've not measured the rim width but they take 28-45mm tyres and pass the brakes fine (although I've got to let air out of the tyre).


How far apart c-to-c are your canti bosses?


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## procel (8 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> How far apart c-to-c are your canti bosses?


Measuring through the spokes, a little over 80mm.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 May 2014)

procel said:


> Measuring through the spokes, a little over 80mm.


Cheers. Pretty standard these days. Mine are a little over 60mm apart. But I think I can see a simple way to mod the CX50/70 to suit the narrower spacing if they don't work with the narrowest spacer; swap out the blue metal spacer for the cup washer off some v-brakes and put a small stack of small washers between it and the arm....


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## swansonj (8 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> TLH has been out on the back, in the safety of the local park for half-an-hour, and, though we did end up in a hedge once, declared she had enjoyed the experience and is keen to gain more.


My wife and I got our (first) tandem as a wedding present. Our first attempt to ride it (embarrassingly, right in front of the shop) resulted in quite a lot of blood and scars on my leg. The scars are still visible. We have been married 19 years.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 May 2014)

swansonj said:


> My wife and I got our (first) tandem as a wedding present. Our first attempt to ride it (embarrassingly, right in front of the shop) resulted in quite a lot of blood and scars on my leg. The scars are still visible. We have been married 19 years.


The first time TLH and I rode a tandem was in France, about 25 years ago. I put us in a ditch at some speed. She walked back to the gite.


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## Scoosh (8 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> The first time TLH and I rode a tandem was in France, about 25 years ago. I put us in a ditch at some speed. She walked back to the gite.


or 'she walked back from the git ... '


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## GrumpyGregry (16 May 2014)

update the second.

The straddle wire is the wrong sort. Miles too long. Ha. No wonder the brakes are parp. Only supplier of the right ones NOS is in America. No ship to UK.

So now it has a Shimano CX 70 canti up front, which I got half price and a Tektro dual pivot on back, drum shoes deglazed, and all rims cleaned and wire wooled. New tektro drop bar levers, and cross tops as TLH is too valuable to risk. The canti needed fettling/adapting, basically dump the supplied spacers and use some off of a normal pair of adjustable shoes, bish sorted. Supplied shimano pre-set straddle wire won't cut the mustard, posts are too narrow, so new straddle made out of a spare brake cable and orginal straddle saddle re used. old skool CX stylee. koolstops in the holders. five minutes of fiddling, front brake is now maahoosive, from the drops, from the hoods, and from the cross tops. Rear brake is still veh spongy but at least it works; the cable is a mile long and I reckon there's some slack to come out, and I've got some spare kool stops to shove in, drum now locks back wheel without a stoker on board.

Now feels safe to take on the road in traffic two up. putting the bar tape on tomorrow and TLH has asked for an even wider saddle. I've got a comedy bolt upright sprung Specialised one that is like sitting on a Chesterfield, it used to be one my Strida until that went under a bus on a mini roundabout.


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## clid61 (7 Aug 2014)

TLH ?


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## Chromatic (7 Aug 2014)

clid61 said:


> TLH ?


Possibly The Lovely Helen (or some other name beginning with H) maybe??


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