# Brompton Service on Monday



## The Jogger (19 Aug 2016)

I'm leaving my Brompton H6L in on Monday for a service. I was just about to ride it up to the LBS (which is a Brompton agent) last Monday to book it in and got a puncture, so I'll get them to sort that too. It's got something rubbing on it, so that needs a look and just a basic service. It's about 16 months old so I'm thinking that'll be all it needs or should I go for the full service whatever that includes?


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## 12boy (19 Aug 2016)

Fixing a flat used to be one of the most difficult things I 've done on a Brompton, at least with Schwalbe tires. Those tires are tough to get on the rim and easy to damage the bead if you force them on with tire irons. So what has worked for me is to do the part with the stem last. That allows you to pull the beads into the center of the tire or the side furthest from the stem and get a little slack. Here's the short list of stuff to check before you go in...chain in good shape? if not the rear cog(s) may need to be replaced. The brake pads could be worn. Holding the front brake so the front wheel doesn't move rock the bike back and forth to check the headset adjustment. wiggling the wheels sideways while in the fork/chainstay can indicate your hubs need adjustment. I would probably repack the headset and hubs if that 16 months has seen some mileage. Grease is cheap. Isn't much on that list you couldn't do with a 15mm wrench for the wheel nuts, a couple of tire irons, a 10mm for the brakes and pay them to replace the rear cog and repack the headset. what is rubbing, BTW?


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## Lonestar (20 Aug 2016)

This is good news.Actually interesting.Never thought of taking it in for a service.

Shwalbe,I have a way of putting those tyres on which is quite successful.I don't use tyre irons and I tie an old inner tube round the tyre to keep it in place while I work with the lever thingy I have.Haven't tired it on a Brompton yet.

Oh BTW Jogger how many miles has it done?


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## The Jogger (20 Aug 2016)

12boy said:


> Fixing a flat used to be one of the most difficult things I 've done on a Brompton, at least with Schwalbe tires. Those tires are tough to get on the rim and easy to damage the bead if you force them on with tire irons. So what has worked for me is to do the part with the stem last. That allows you to pull the beads into the center of the tire or the side furthest from the stem and get a little slack. Here's the short list of stuff to check before you go in...chain in good shape? if not the rear cog(s) may need to be replaced. The brake pads could be worn. Holding the front brake so the front wheel doesn't move rock the bike back and forth to check the headset adjustment. wiggling the wheels sideways while in the fork/chainstay can indicate your hubs need adjustment. I would probably repack the headset and hubs if that 16 months has seen some mileage. Grease is cheap. Isn't much on that list you couldn't do with a 15mm wrench for the wheel nuts, a couple of tire irons, a 10mm for the brakes and pay them to replace the rear cog and repack the headset. *what is rubbing, BTW?*



Not sure. checked the mudguards, sounds like it is coming from the back wheel area. I'm booking myself on a bike maintenance course in Sept.


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## The Jogger (20 Aug 2016)

Lonestar said:


> This is good news.Actually interesting.Never thought of taking it in for a service.
> 
> Shwalbe,I have a way of putting those tyres on which is quite successful.I don't use tyre irons and I tie an old inner tube round the tyre to keep it in place while I work with the lever thingy I have.Haven't tired it on a Brompton yet.
> 
> Oh BTW Jogger how many miles has it done?



Not sure but probably about 2000 miles plus.


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## Lonestar (20 Aug 2016)

The Jogger said:


> Not sure but probably about 2000 miles plus.



Wow.quite a few.


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## The Jogger (23 Aug 2016)

Well I picked up my 16 month old H6L from the LBS (Brompton Agent) after it's service and repair. This is what I had done and cost as on the bill:
Qbrpada- Fibrax pads 10;00
Qrspr - Shimano 16T R sprocket 3/32 9 2/6spd 5:99
QChain 3/32 102 11:99
Shimano 13TR Sprocket 3/32 9 spline 6 spd 5:99
Qtub - 50 Tube37-349 Sv 5:00
Safety check labour 48:00
Workshop: degreaser 20:00
Workshop: cleaner 20:00
Workshop: cabin lube 1:00
Fit chain and cassette labour 15:00
Fit tube 10:00
Miscellaneous labour 5:00



Finish line 4:50 (my add on0

Sub Total: 120:39
Vat 24:08
Total 144:47

There is probably some of their codes in the description, anyway was that good value or not?


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## Profpointy (23 Aug 2016)

20+20 + vat for degreaser & cleaner seems a bit steep. What are they using, extract of seal's noses ?
Labour is maybe a touch heavy too, but not wildly so arguably


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## T4tomo (23 Aug 2016)

£40 on cleaning products is taking the mick, rest is fine


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## Pale Rider (24 Aug 2016)

You live in a fairly affluent part of the country, so the bill will be a bit higher than if you lived somewhere cheap.

I agree forty quid for chemicals looks steep, but the components - chain, sprockets etc - have been charged very reasonably.

Taken overall, £145 is OK provided the work has been done and done well.

About 2,000 miles for the transmission and pads looks a short service life to me - other more experienced Brompton users may be able to comment on that.

You could look into making the new stuff last a bit longer by adopting an improved cleaning and maintenance regime.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2016)

I raised my eyebrows at new chain and sprockets too, pads seems a tad presumptive would you say you are a smooth and predictive rider or nearer crashing gears and grabbing lumps of brake at the last moment?

They've made a profit on their labour and simple consumables for sure but on the flipside are registered so should be properly familiar with Bromptons, the key thing I guess on VFM is how do you feel it rides now.


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## 12boy (24 Aug 2016)

I would be doing those things myself. Swapping brake pads, replacing an inner tube and replacing the two rear cogs would take me maybe an hour, and at most two the first time. Getting paid over 100 pounds for an hour's work sounds pretty good to me. The 48 for the safety check seems crazy. If they repacked the hubs and headset for 48 that might be fair. Perhaps everything in Britain just is a lot more than here. BTW some Tiptop patches would cost maybe 8 bucks for a dozen with glue etc and unless the inner tube has a big cut or failed next to the stem, would work just fine.


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## Kell (24 Aug 2016)

£15 to buy and replace an inner tube is shocking - but not unexpected, as it's that price everywhere. As mentioned above,you could probably have done it yourself for a couple of quid for patches. Or free if you already have them.

Brake pads are easy to change too.

And even the rear cogs and chain are easy to do. I tend to buy the tools to do the jobs as and when the jobs need doing rather than pay labour - the cost is often less than asking someone else to do the job the first time, and then the second time it's free.


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## The Jogger (24 Aug 2016)

Thanks all for the comments, much appreciated. I have booked myself on a maintenance course, which now I'm retired I will have no excuses to not do minor stuff at least. It's good to know the parts were reasonably priced as well. The bike was ridden quite fast along the canal towpath so I don't think that would have helped it as well as having nil maintenance or cleaning of moving parts.


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## Kell (24 Aug 2016)

I consider myself to be a mechanical retard. But I'm willing to give most things a go. 

The problem with bikes is that a lot of the jobs require specific tools. Added to that, Bromptons are choc-full of archaic and unusual 'features' which means a lot of my limited knowledge is being put to the test even more.


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> I consider myself to be a mechanical retard. But I'm willing to give most things a go.
> 
> The problem with bikes is that a lot of the jobs require specific tools. Added to that, Bromptons are choc-full of archaic and unusual 'features' which means a lot of my limited knowledge is being put to the test even more.



Not many things on bikes need special tools; at least not the day to day stuff. Set of good allen keys and a couple of spanners, and a pliers and you're good to go for most jobs - and you need that lot anyway just for everyday life surely. Buy good quality is my advice and don't skimp

OK, a chain splitter, but that won't break the bank even for a good one. Bottom bracket removal is a pretty infrequent job and as such can be sent to the shop, but even then, the crank remover isn't that dear.

I'm now fettling my Brompton doing brake upgrades and such, but although it's arranged in an unfamiliar way, there's nothin per se peculiar. That said, did take a bit of head-scratching to work out how to remove the brake levers, but that was the old crap levers, rather than its Bromtpon-ess. To be fair I am reasonably mechanically adept, but still.


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

Changing a rear cassette on 'normal' bike = chain whip + sprocket removal tool. For example. 

Job needs doing a couple of time a year if you ride a fair bit.


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> Changing a rear cassette on 'normal' bike = chain whip + sprocket removal tool. For example.
> 
> Job needs doing a couple of time a year if you ride a fair bit.



True, but if I got through that many, I'd buy the tool (and maybe oil it a bit more !) - what £20 (guessing). A chain whip was something like that for my fixie. 

That said, I'd buy the tool anyway, just because.... though may or may not try building wheels when the time comes.


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## John the Monkey (25 Aug 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> About 2,000 miles for the transmission and pads looks a short service life to me - other more experienced Brompton users may be able to comment on that.
> 
> You could look into making the new stuff last a bit longer by adopting an improved cleaning and maintenance regime.


I don't think it's that short, tbh (although my Brompton gets ridden in a lot of filthy weather). The suggestion is a good one though, Bromptons are filthy little bikes, and cleaning them regularly should mean a longer life for those parts (if not a "long" life compared to other bikes).

I'd also look at using non-Brompton bits where applicable - I use a different sort of Fibrax pad than the ones made for Brompton, and prefer KMC's "rustbuster" chains to the ones supplied by SRAM for Brompton.


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## John the Monkey (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> Changing a rear cassette on 'normal' bike = chain whip + sprocket removal tool. For example.
> 
> Job needs doing a couple of time a year if you ride a fair bit.


Screwdriver, and good eyesight to see where the circlip pinged to for a Brompton


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## T4tomo (25 Aug 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Screwdriver, and good eyesight to see where the circlip pinged to for a Brompton


and a small child to run after the circlip and retrieve it.


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## chris folder (25 Aug 2016)

HiI had the 1st service on my brompton tighten all nuts and bolts up put some wet lube on chain, pump tyres up, checked wheel spokes and check all the gears are ok. Brompton say should re grease hub after alot or rideing i have not done that yet make you wounder how dry hub is?


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> True, but if I got through that many, I'd buy the tool (and maybe oil it a bit more !) - what £20 (guessing). A chain whip was something like that for my fixie.
> 
> That said, I'd buy the tool anyway, just because.... though may or may not try building wheels when the time comes.



That was kind of my point. Rather than pay labour for someone else to do the job, use the money to buy the tools and do the job yourself.

I'm currently trying to strip and rebuild an old MTB and while I have most of the tools to do most of the jobs, I'm missing a headset removal tool and press and I'd love to buy a wheel trueing stand, but that's big bucks.


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Screwdriver, and good eyesight to see where the circlip pinged to for a Brompton



Been there. Done that. Spent 10 minutes looking for it.


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Not many things on bikes need special tools; at least not the day to day stuff. Set of good allen keys and a couple of spanners, and a pliers and you're good to go for most jobs - and you need that lot anyway just for everyday life surely. Buy good quality is my advice and don't skimp
> 
> OK, a chain splitter, but that won't break the bank even for a good one. Bottom bracket removal is a pretty infrequent job and as such can be sent to the shop, but even then, the crank remover isn't that dear.
> 
> I'm now fettling my Brompton doing brake upgrades and such, but although it's arranged in an unfamiliar way, there's nothin per se peculiar. That said, did take a bit of head-scratching to work out how to remove the brake levers, but that was the old crap levers, rather than its Bromtpon-ess. To be fair I am reasonably mechanically adept, but still.



If you've got a 6-speed (or 2-speed for that matter) I'd say that a chain pusher would be filed under the archaic and unsusual section. Just when you think you've got the hang of adjusting gears on a normal derailleur equipped bike, they throw that in the mix.


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> If you've got a 6-speed (or 2-speed for that matter) I'd say that a chain pusher would be filed under the archaic and unsusual section. Just when you think you've got the hang of adjusting gears on a normal derailleur equipped bike, they throw that in the mix.



Haven't got to the joys of that bit yet, so you may well be right. 

Why oh why don't they just stick an 11 speed shimano hub on it rather than the nasty plastic 2x derailler with an old 3 speed hub? And to retrofit, you've got to buy a whole bespoke rear triangle to fit the wider (standard) axle - bah !


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> That was kind of my point. Rather than pay labour for someone else to do the job, use the money to buy the tools and do the job yourself.
> 
> I'm currently trying to strip and rebuild an old MTB and while I have most of the tools to do most of the jobs, I'm missing a headset removal tool and press and I'd love to buy a wheel trueing stand, but that's big bucks.



Not done wheel truing, but presumably you could just turn the bike over and use the forks ?


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Screwdriver, and good eyesight to see where the circlip pinged to for a Brompton



I've just had that - bought some brass garden hose fittings, but one item was slightly out-of-spec so I took it apart and used a stone to fettle it (the push fit linkage thing for the squirter end) - now fits lovely - but I've lost one of 3 ball bearings somewhere in the kitchen - probably down the cracks in the floorboards. Bah! Still seems to work with only two balls so there !


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Not done wheel truing, but presumably you could just turn the bike over and use the forks ?



Funnily enough, when I redid the front wheel on my brompton, I removed the tyre and put an allen key across the brake calipers. It worked perfectly for getting the wheel round. I then used the fact that the brake calipers have a side-to-side adjustment to get it straight.

Not sure it would work on every bike though.


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> Funnily enough, when I redid the front wheel on my brompton, I removed the tyre and put an allen key across the brake calipers. It worked perfectly for getting the wheel round. I then used the fact that the brake calipers have a side-to-side adjustment to get it straight.
> 
> Not sure it would work on every bike though.



Just spotted the pet leopard on your avatar - 'kinell !


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Just spotted the pet leopard on your avatar - 'kinell !



Completely off-topic:

It was a Cheetah...

Incredible and utterly humbling experience thanks to these guys: http://tenikwa.com/


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2016)

My folder isn't a Brompton, so I was forced to learn to service it myself because I literally couldn't get it serviced right. After two different services it nearly rattled apart when two different bolts weren't tightened, and the final straw was when I took it to a shop that sold mezzos, and they replaced the rear wheel and rear derailleur (16" folders go through a lot of those!) but didn't adjust the high/low screws which could have resulted in a serious accident. If I have to spend time checking they have done their job properly, I may as well save £100 and do it myself.


Lonestar said:


> Wow.quite a few.


Is it? That's only an average of 25 miles/week. Which is respectable, but not quite "wow" worthy.

I did the maths. 2,000 is the equivalent in terms of wheel rotation and thus wear as 3,200 on a road bike. That plus how close the cassette and chain are to the dirt probably means it was due for a replacement.


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## dellzeqq (25 Aug 2016)

I think Brompton ownership brings with it a kind of philosophical question - which is....'what is a Brompton?'

If it's a means of getting around then run it for years and years without a service - to misquote Quentin Crisip, it doesn't get any worse after four years. If it's the object of desire than accustom yourself to the idea that it's not a cheap date.


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## Lonestar (25 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Is it? That's only an average of 25 miles/week. Which is respectable, but not quite "wow" worthy.



It is to me.I've had mine nearly two years and I doubt I've done 100 miles.


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## Kell (25 Aug 2016)

I've had mine a year and done over 2,500.


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2016)

Lonestar said:


> It is to me.I've had mine nearly two years and I doubt I've done 100 miles.


So £8+/mile? Taxi's are cheaper 

I am mystified why anyone would buy one who had so little use for it. Even 1 mile to and fro at either end of a train commute is 20 miles a week. Did you change jobs just after buying it?


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## Lonestar (25 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> So £8+/mile? Taxi's are cheaper
> 
> I am mystified why anyone would buy one who had so little use for it. Even 1 mile to and fro at either end of a train commute is 20 miles a week. Did you change jobs just after buying it?



No I was going to take it on holiday but changed my mind (too much hassle at the airport seemed pointless me taking it).I'm happy with it.Use it for local trips and may need it in the future anyway.It's not doing any harm.

Toying with the idea today of taking it by train to Derbyshire and visiting a relative who lives out in the sticks.

I have three other bikes.A dedicated fixie for the commute...a spare fixie and the Audax for local and longer rides.


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## T4tomo (25 Aug 2016)

'cos an Alfine hun


Profpointy said:


> Haven't got to the joys of that bit yet, so you may well be right.
> 
> Why oh why don't they just stick an 11 speed shimano hub on it rather than the nasty plastic 2x derailler with an old 3 speed hub? And to retrofit, you've got to buy a whole bespoke rear triangle to fit the wider (standard) axle - bah !


Cos an alfine hub is relatively expensive, and overkill if u just bought it for a 2 mile commute either end of a train journey. U can upgrade to one though.


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## srw (25 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I think Brompton ownership brings with it a kind of philosophical question - which is....'what is a Brompton?'
> 
> If it's a means of getting around then run it for years and years without a service - to misquote Quentin Crisip, it doesn't get any worse after four years. If it's the object of desire than accustom yourself to the idea that it's not a cheap date.


Sounds about right. I rode my first one (or rather its frame) into the ground after about 12,000 miles. Once I'd got the wheel laced properly - all those years ago Brompton didn't know how to build a reliable rear wheel - it just ran and ran and ran. I bust one rim in that time, never replaced the sprocket or the tensioner, and rarely had it serviced.

Now that I've got my second set up as an 8-speed I expect to do the same, once I've sorted the rear wheel build. For the moment I'm carrying a tube of locktite and a spoke key. I'm not the quickest rider in town, but then the same is true on my fast bike too.


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## Fab Foodie (25 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> 20+20 + vat for degreaser & cleaner seems a bit steep. What are they using, extract of seal's noses ?
> Labour is maybe a touch heavy too, but not wildly so arguably


@The Jogger you see this is what you get when you allow the private sector to do a simple job


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## The Jogger (26 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @The Jogger you see this is what you get when you allow the private sector to do a simple job



I'm so glad at long last you've seen the light FF.


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## Fab Foodie (26 Aug 2016)

The Jogger said:


> I'm so glad at long last you've seen the light FF.


But at least the shop didn't go on strike, you got it back on time and it works ....


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## srw (26 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @The Jogger you see this is what you get when you allow the private sector to do a simple job


Either that or it's evidence you don't need a union to result in overpaid workers. Or that workers' solidarity works so well that they've spotted a fellow working man and given him a discount...


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## Profpointy (26 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> Either that or it's evidence you don't need a union to result in overpaid workers. Or that workers' solidarity works so well that they've spotted a fellow working man and given him a discount...



I doubt the workers are being overpaid - the overpayment is going to "the man"


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## raleighnut (26 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> That was kind of my point. Rather than pay labour for someone else to do the job, use the money to buy the tools and do the job yourself.
> 
> I'm currently trying to strip and rebuild an old MTB and while I have most of the tools to do most of the jobs, I'm missing a headset removal tool and press and I'd love to buy a wheel trueing stand, but that's big bucks.


Headset removal tool - Length of Dowel/broomhandle and a hammer.
Headset installation tool - Block of wood and a hammer, having a decent (ish) Bench helps though.


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## srw (26 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> I doubt the workers are being overpaid - the overpayment is going to "the man"


Are you suggesting that joggsy would use an exploitative gouging LBS? Tush, man. That's an allegation so low as to be unworthy even of the hated MSM.


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## 12boy (26 Aug 2016)

A stout piece of PVC will work for headsets coming off, and a long threaded rod with a couple of large washers and nuts will allow you to reinstall one. As my dad used to say....never use force, get a bigger hammer.


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## T4tomo (26 Aug 2016)

I had an uncle who used to swear bound that when using screws with wood, the screw driver was purely for removal, and correct tool for putting in a screw was a hammer


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## oldwheels (26 Aug 2016)

Where I used to live near the shipyards a hammer was a" Clydebank Screwdriver".


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## srw (26 Aug 2016)

My dad used to say "flat tyre? Ask the bike shop."


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## Profpointy (26 Aug 2016)

oldwheels said:


> Where I used to live near the shipyards a hammer was a" Clydebank Screwdriver".



At the risk of too recent repeating, maybe time to re-post the three rules of engineering.

1 Always use the right tool for the job
2 The right tool for any job is a hammer
3 Any tool can be used as a hammer


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## The Jogger (26 Aug 2016)

Just had the brommie out for a little jaunt, a lot better than it was. So happy enough.


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## jefmcg (26 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> 1 Always use the right tool for the job
> 2 The right tool for any job is a hammer
> 3 Any tool can be used as a hammer


It's time I got a tattoo. How do you think this would be as a tramp stamp?


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## John the Monkey (26 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> It's time I got a tattoo. How do you think this would be as a tramp stamp?


Kind of wordy.

Get it done in gothic script around a panther's head the size of a volleyball, between your shoulder blades.

Much classier.


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## jefmcg (26 Aug 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Much classier.


thank you. Anything with a panther's head is obviously classy.

(giggling merrily here)


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## John the Monkey (26 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> thank you. Anything with a panther's head is obviously classy.
> 
> (giggling merrily here)


It'll be a smash at the Rotary club, you wait and see.


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## The Jogger (7 Sep 2016)

Another puncture , same wheel, marathon tyres , only second time out on it since service, I'm starting to wonder did they fix the last puncture properly or just replace the tube. In Itchenor waiting to be picked up


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## Kell (7 Sep 2016)

Not good. I'd remove and check it all myself if I was you.


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## The Jogger (7 Sep 2016)

Anybody want to buy a brommie


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## chris folder (8 Sep 2016)

Hi what model you got for sale?


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## samsbike (25 Nov 2016)

How did you manage to wreck the frame?


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