# Product Design Student requires some help



## Cledwyn (11 Jan 2013)

Hi all, I am a product design student at the University of Northampton. I am working on my final project to re-design the bike. It may have to replace the car one day.

I am hoping some of you guys can help me with my studies by filling out a quick multiple choice survey. It will only take 2 minutes and there are no wrong answers. Please click on the link below.

http://freeonlinesurveys.com/s.asp?sid=y1leoaxhhw4xfnm180716

Any questions or comments most welcome. 

Many thanks,

George


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## Theseus (11 Jan 2013)

Posted in the wrong place, but done.


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## glenn forger (11 Jan 2013)

> Would you find any advantage in having pillion passengers?


 
I don't understand. It's illegal, I think.


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## addictfreak (11 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> I don't understand. It's illegal, I think.



I think it's a concept rather than reality.


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## Markymark (11 Jan 2013)

Completed.

If its 20 years+, I would imagine there would be a greater shift from cars to bikes with hopefully some changes in the law reflecting the road's shared usage.


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## Cledwyn (11 Jan 2013)

I have an idea of maybe a 3 or 4 wheeled vehicle. It could have two passengers side by side. More like a car. I don't think a tandem is illegal?


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## Cledwyn (11 Jan 2013)

Touche said:


> Posted in the wrong place, but done.


thank you


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## Kies (11 Jan 2013)

done


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## Theseus (11 Jan 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> I have an idea of maybe a 3 or 4 wheeled vehicle. It could have two passengers side by side. More like a car. I don't think a tandem is illegal?


 
While a possibility, and has already been done in various guises, the drawback for commuting (for me) would be being too wide the filter past all the static cars stuck in thier traffic jam.

The main things that influence any variances in my journey time are my general wellbeing or the wind. Other traffic levels are not really a significant factor. If I had a wider HPV this would no longer be the case. Not only would I be held up in places, but I would imagine that there would also be places that I would be a major irritation for other road users who would be stuck behind me.


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## TheDoctor (11 Jan 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> Hi all, I am a product design student at the University of Northampton. I am working on my final project to re-design the bike. It may have to replace the car one day.
> 
> I am hoping some of you guys can help me with my studies by filling out a quick multiple choice survey. It will only take 2 minutes and there are no wrong answers. Please click on the link below.
> 
> ...


 
Redesign the bike?
You can't even design a simple survey that gets you some decent new ideas.
How many gears, which of the well-known braking systems, FFS...


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## Rob3rt (11 Jan 2013)

When are one of these product design students going to redesign the urinal to eliminate splashback?


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## guitarpete247 (11 Jan 2013)

Tried to do your survey but as I can't/don't commute means I cannot submit.


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## redcard (11 Jan 2013)

These surveys really do make you think about the state of higher education in this country


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## TVC (12 Jan 2013)

Done. However I don't believe the bike needs redesigning, it's the road network that needs an overhaul


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## TheDoctor (12 Jan 2013)

And what about this wheel thingy? Sounds a terribly interesting idea...
[/Golgafrinchan Ark Ship B]


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

Touche said:


> While a possibility, and has already been done in various guises, the drawback for commuting (for me) would be being too wide the filter past all the static cars stuck in thier traffic jam.
> 
> The main things that influence any variances in my journey time are my general wellbeing or the wind. Other traffic levels are not really a significant factor. If I had a wider HPV this would no longer be the case. Not only would I be held up in places, but I would imagine that there would also be places that I would be a major irritation for other road users who would be stuck behind me.


 
Thank you for a useful post.


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

TheDoctor said:


> Redesign the bike?
> You can't even design a simple survey that gets you some decent new ideas.
> How many gears, which of the well-known braking systems, FFS...


 
What's wrong with wanting to know how many gears people like and what brakes they want?


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

User said:


> Already been done...


 
Yes I used to watch the chuckle brothers as a child and remember their vehicle. I have a number of ideas but I need feedback so that I can develop a good design.


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

redcard said:


> These surveys really do make you think about the state of higher education in this country


 bit harsh, care to expand...


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

guitarpete247 said:


> Tried to do your survey but as I can't/don't commute means I cannot submit.


 
You can enter 0 for how many days you commute.


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## ACS (13 Jan 2013)

Done


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## shouldbeinbed (13 Jan 2013)

At work so not done the survey yet but picking up on the comments.

I assume theres some benefit expleained in the syrvey that you perceive from a multi person bike , though for the lie of me I can't think of it outside of a courting couple novelty.

Does a land pedelo take a lot of designing? & once you've got 2 people sat side by side, then someone else will come along and suggest a couple of seats behind for the kids and a then bit of space to put some shopping and maybe a roof and windows to keep the rain off and cos its got a bit heavy by now an engine (link to the electric bike thread) to make hills easier and then a bigger engine to go longer distances and then someone will rename it a car.

I know its not really design but please ALL design students, stop tinkering with a perfectly good model that has stood over a century of actual use and basically remained the same BECAUSE IT WORKS AS IT IS and have a bit of a look at design of our urban spaces and transport routes to make for nicer infrastructure and address the real barriers to cycling. Shame the urban/road planner lot into doing their job properly.


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## Cledwyn (13 Jan 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Does a land pedelo take a lot of designing? & once you've got 2 people sat side by side, then someone else will come along and suggest a couple of seats behind for the kids and a then bit of space to put some shopping and maybe a roof and windows to keep the rain off and cos its got a bit heavy by now an engine (link to the electric bike thread) to make hills easier and then a bigger engine to go longer distances and then someone will rename it a car.


 
This is one trail of thought I have been thinking of.

My initial idea is a bicycle (trike) with 3 wheels, 2 at the rear fairly close together. This means it will stand on its own when stationary. The wheels will be angled (like racing wheelchairs) for stability. I want to make it no wider than the standard width of mountain bike handlebars. I appreciate in an ideal world it would be even narrower but I'll have to wait and see if its possible. The riding position will be a recumbent position. To maximise efficiency. It will have a fully enclosed shell similar to land speed record bicycles with built in lights etc. This is for weather protection. I will also look into electric motor assistance.

Feel free to tear this idea apart.


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## TheDoctor (13 Jan 2013)

Well done.
You have invented the velomobile, which has existed for nearly a century.
If you can't be arsed to do any research, why the hell should we do it for you?


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## TheDoctor (13 Jan 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> What's wrong with wanting to know how many gears people like and what brakes they want?


It's hardly redesigning anything, now is it?
The main reason than no-one has significantly redesigned the bike is that it's near-as-dammit perfect. Doesn't stop any number of students thinking they can do so and failing to even ask any relevant questions, let alone imaginative ones.


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## mickle (13 Jan 2013)

Google Kinetic Sculpture Racing - that should give you plenty of inspiration.


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## black'n'yellow (13 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> When are one of these product design students going to redesign the urinal to eliminate splashback?


 
don't be daft - students don't use urinals..


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## deanE (13 Jan 2013)

Northampton University? I worked there for nearly 20 years. I remember a bus station and a market square, and the only “Royal" Theatre, but that’s about all.


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## Davidc (13 Jan 2013)

As I don't commute I can't complete it. There are plenty of other uses for bikes including general transport and shopping as well!

Basically bikes don't need a significant redesign, and there are new components ready to replace some of the less good ones.


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## Rob3rt (14 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> don't be daft - students don't use urinals..


 
Well this one probably just pisses in his pants.


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## mickle (14 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Well this one probably just ****es in his pants.


No need.


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## snorri (14 Jan 2013)

If the new bike had an automatic gearbox, the number of gears would be of little consequence to the user, I would think.
Also, I see commuting as one sub-section within the utility cycling sector, why is it segregated from the other modes of utility cycling for the purposes of the poll?


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## Tigerbiten (14 Jan 2013)

I tried to do the questioner but as I ride a recumbent trike, I cannot fill in question 3.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (15 Jan 2013)

done in parts at least. I don't commute to work because I don't work, but I do commute to college twice a week & physio once a week.
Cost of bikes - hard to pick an answer for that when I have 3 ranging in cost from £299 to +£2,500 and use all 3, so all are my current bikes.
Gears - another issue on how many because 24 or 27 on my road or mtb are great but my tourer only has 14 get I actually prefer that because it is not a derailuer gear set, it is a rohloff hub though it sounds like you have not come across them (think similar to car gear box encased in oil as which is the rear hub - all gears as sequential and give same ratios as 27 speed mtb and can change gear whilst stationary) Brakes - what works depends on what rims you have and what brake blocks you have if you are not on discs. my tourer has stunning brakes and I am more than happy with them, but I do like hydraulic disc brakes as well.
Q10 I would change motorists attitudes towards cyclists more than anything else which might just be easier to control than the british weather.


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## Cledwyn (17 Jan 2013)

TheDoctor said:


> It's hardly redesigning anything, now is it?
> The main reason than no-one has significantly redesigned the bike is that it's near-as-dammit perfect. Doesn't stop any number of students thinking they can do so and failing to even ask any relevant questions, let alone imaginative ones.


 
Can you give me an example of a relevant and imaginative question pleae.



TheDoctor said:


> Well done.
> You have invented the velomobile, which has existed for nearly a century.
> If you can't be arsed to do any research, why the hell should we do it for you?


 
I have looked at this before. No ones forcing you to help or write bitchy posts.



deanE said:


> Northampton University? I worked there for nearly 20 years. I remember a bus station and a market square, and the only “Royal" Theatre, but that’s about all.


 
It's still a sh.t hole



Rob3rt said:


> Well this one probably just ****es in his pants.


 
and you're probably single.



snorri said:


> If the new bike had an automatic gearbox, the number of gears would be of little consequence to the user, I would think.
> Also, I see commuting as one sub-section within the utility cycling sector, why is it segregated from the other modes of utility cycling for the purposes of the poll?


 
An automatic gear box will still have a certain amount of gears. You don't want big jumps in ratios and at the other end you don't want to be changing gears all the time as it can reduce efficiency. 

I plan to design a vehicle for the road and not for off road. The survey should perhaps of included other cyclists but I thought my main target market would be commuters.


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## Rob3rt (17 Jan 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> *and you're probably single.*


 
Nope.


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## Archie_tect (17 Jan 2013)

Cladwyn,
Design a variable rear gearing system that uses a front and rear mechanism using cone shaped variable rear gear mechanism employing centripetal forces to automatically slide outwards to reduce the diameter of the 'gear' as the wheel speeds up.... bit like the variable gearbox on an old DAF car... you'd have to overcome slippage using a belt drive but it would be a smooth variable transmission...


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## TheDoctor (17 Jan 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> Can you give me an example of a relevant and imaginative question *pleae*.


 
If I was a design student I'd rather expect to be able to think of one for myself.
Mind you, I'd expect to be able to spell.
You could think about obstacles to cycling, for instance, or any fundamental changes to bike design or construction - perhaps cross-pollination using ideas from other industries or fields. I'm thinking here of ideas like bringing in a ski-binding company to invent the Look clipless pedal, or using the Hirth joint from F1 crankshaft construction in the Campag ultra-torque chainset.
Asking about gears and brakes is just fiddling around the edges. Use your imagination.



> An automatic gear box will still have a certain amount of gears. You don't want big jumps in ratios and at the other end you don't want to be changing gears all the time as it can reduce efficiency.


Continuously variable transmissions are commonplace, but maybe not on bikes (NuVinci drive notwithstanding). I love the way *you're* telling *us* what we don't want in a bike. You don't actually appear to have a scooby what people might or might not want.



> I plan to design a vehicle for the road and not for off road. The survey should perhaps of included other cyclists but I thought my main target market would be commuters.


Should have, not should of.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing your design once it's done.


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## Licramite (21 Jan 2013)

try this for an idea


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## tricksta (5 Feb 2013)

Hi,
Just found this thread and thought I would take part, especially as I'm an ex. Industrial Design Student (like Product Design with more engineering/production) myself and I'm based in Northampton.

Q3 was a bit of a stumper as I ride a recumbent.

To all those giving Cladwyn grief I give you these quotes:
*'Imagination is more important than knowledge'*​ 
*'Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new'*​ 
Albert Einstein​​Not sure why the questions he asked are wrong, limited in scope maybe, but not wrong. It's no easy task to come up with a final project, something you have been working towards for 3 years, something that is interesting to you and the course tutors. Most Product Design courses seem to focus on redesigning household goods (think kettles, toasters etc.) for much of the course and it is often expected that you will do something similar for the final project (I know from bitter experience). But it takes a certain amount of bloody minded individualism to try something different or as complicated as redesigning the bike. Yes it's been done before, but look back through history and you will find that there really hasn't been much that someone else has not thought of, sketched or built.

My 2p just ran out : )


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## TheDoctor (5 Feb 2013)

Imagination is more important than knowledge, maybe, but if you don't have either you're stuffed before you start!
Trying something new? That would be a Good Idea.
Every design student who ever comes on here either hasn't a clue, or suggests designing something that was around eighty years ago, was crap then, and is still crap now.
Thankfully none of them ever hang around, so we keep the signal-to-noise ratio at a tolerable level.
[/rant]


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## tricksta (6 Feb 2013)

Do we get a lot of design students asking questions then??

If we do, that's excellent, just a shame the community (or is it just a few) are not willing to spend a little time to provide information or references that may be of some use. Don't forget, a lot of design students are set projects by their tutors and may have little or no interest in cycling, the technology or the history involved and need to get a better understanding. Maybe they're coming here to find out information from somewhere they would assume/expect to be better informed even, dare I say it helpful.


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## Shaun (6 Feb 2013)

tricksta said:


> Do we get a lot of design students asking questions then??
> 
> If we do, that's excellent, just a shame the community (or is it just a few) are not willing to spend a little time to provide information or references that may be of some use. Don't forget, a lot of design students are set projects by their tutors and may have little or no interest in cycling, the technology or the history involved and need to get a better understanding. Maybe they're coming here to find out information from somewhere they would assume/expect to be better informed even, dare I say it helpful.


 
Students who put effort and forethought into their requests usually get the best results from the CC community - we can be a very helpful little lot you know; however those students who post hastily compiled, poorly thought out surveys, with little care for the site/community and with the expectation of CC doing the legwork for them (pun intended), generally don't fair as well. 

It's also interesting to see how few students actually return to share the results of their surveys with the community or even make a second visit to interact with us regarding their ideas, never mind ask questions to clarify and better understanding things.

That's not to say I discourage the practice, I don't, I think we offer students a good range of experience and opinion, just that it tends to work more in the favour of the students than one might at first realise. 

Cheers,
Shaun


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## Licramite (6 Feb 2013)

I must admit I thought the tone of some of the replies were harsh and heartless.
people do forget how easily other people can be hurt by such violent replies. - to being asked such a simple question.
Of course its the internet, I'm sure they wouldn't be such arses if they were asked face to face.
I'm sure they are perfectly nice really.


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## bianchi1 (6 Feb 2013)

So much for cycle chat being a fun and "friendly" online community!


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## Easytigers (14 Feb 2013)

Done


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## Cledwyn (12 Mar 2013)

1) How many days per week do you ride? 

*0 *4 (9.5%)
*1 *1 (2.4%)
*2 *7 (16.7%)
*3 *6 (14.3%)
*4 *3 (7.1%)
*5 *20 (47.6%)
*6 *1 (2.4%)
*7 *0 (0.0%)
2) How many miles per day do you ride your bike? 

*0-5 miles *5 (11.9%)
*6-10 miles *7 (16.7%)
*11-15 miles *10 (23.8%)
*16-20 miles *12 (28.6%)
*20-25 miles *6 (14.3%)
*26+ miles *2 (4.8%)
3) What type of bike do you currently use? 

*Road bike *22 (37.3%)
*Hybrid *22 (37.3%)
*Tourer *7 (11.9%)
*Mountain bike *7 (11.9%)
*Folding bike *1 (1.7%)
*Electric assist bike *0 (0.0%)
4) How much does your current bike cost? 

*£0-£50 *0 (0.0%)
*£51-£100 *1 (2.4%)
*£101-£200 *2 (4.8%)
*£201-£500 *15 (35.7%)
*£501-£800 *11 (26.2%)
*£801-£1100 *8 (19.0%)
*£1101-£1500 *1 (2.4%)
*£1501-£2000 *1 (2.4%)
*£2001+ *3 (7.1%)
5) What sort of terrain do you ride across on your bike? 

*Hard surfaces i.e tarmac *38 (79.2%)
*Mud, grass and gravel tracks *4 (8.3%)
*A mixture of both *6 (12.5%)
*Other *0 (0.0%)
 



6) How many gears would your perfect bike have? 

*0-5 *4 (9.5%)
*6-10 *5 (11.9%)
*11-15 *5 (11.9%)
*16-20 *10 (23.8%)
*21-27 *12 (28.6%)
*27+ *6 (14.3%)
7) What brake set up do you prefer? 

*Hydraulic disc *13 (31.0%)
*Cable disc *10 (23.8%)
*Hydraulic rim brake *0 (0.0%)
*Side-pull calliper *6 (14.3%)
*U-brake *2 (4.8%)
*V-brake *4 (9.5%)
*Cantilever brake *4 (9.5%)
*Delta brake *0 (0.0%)
*Other (Please Specify): *3 (7.1%)
8) What is your favourite riding position? 

*Upright *15 (35.7%)
*Leant forward *26 (61.9%)
*Recumbent *1 (2.4%)
*Standing *0 (0.0%)
*Other (Please Specify): *0 (0.0%)
9) What puts you off riding to work? 

*Weather *21 (45.7%)
*Distance *2 (4.3%)
*Hills *2 (4.3%)
*Traffic *5 (10.9%)
*Pedestrians *1 (2.2%)
*Other *15 (32.6%)
Text Answers:
- ice
- no work
- Work from home
- I'm retired
- nothing. I always ride to work
- nothing
- Ice, snow and a post birthday hangover
- Carrying my clothes in once a week
- Poor road surface
- tiredness
- nothing
- Man Flu
- Nothing
- No shower facilities at work.
- Work at home



10) What would you change to make bikes better? 

*Visibility *6 (9.5%)
*Comfort *12 (19.0%)
*Speed / lightness *20 (31.7%)
*Safety *10 (15.9%)
*Weather protection *9 (14.3%)
*Other *6 (9.5%)
Text Answers:
- bikes gearing is minimal, it could be so much more powerful
- Decrease in price level of light frames to make them more affordable
- Nothing
- Dream bike would have a light weight electric assist that would only give a small amount of power to help on hills only.
- easy to install and to remove fenders (like the SKS)
- I have spent a small fortune on lights, hi viz, reflectors etc... just to be seen in the dark. A bike with incorporated lights/dynamo and reflective detailing or paint on the frame would be ideal. maybe even a brake light?

11) How much space for storage do you require? 

*Enough for a bottle of drink *4 (10.0%)
*Enough for a laptop *2 (5.0%)
*Enough for a backpack *22 (55.0%)
*Enough for the weekly shop *6 (15.0%)
*Other (Please Specify): *6 (15.0%)
Text Answer:
- Just enough for tools and a waterproof
- 2 panniers
- 10 ltr pannier
- panniers on a rack
- tools also, pump, spare tubes, tyre levers etc
- Enough for work clothes & lunch

12) Would you find any advantage in having pillion passengers? 

*Yes *1 (2.4%)
*No *39 (92.9%)
*If yes how many? *2 (4.8%)
Text Answers:
- 1 only if they could pedal
- 1 (but not on my commuting bike)


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## Cledwyn (12 Mar 2013)

My project is coming along nicely, thanks to help from some on here. I'm not hurt by any comments but some people do seem to have a high expectation of what an individual student can do in a few months. This is our final project and we were given a free rein on what to design. I chose a bike (vehicle) because I've been on 2 wheels since I was 3. Many in my class are designing chairs, prams and bottle lids. The reason for the survey is because we need to show our teachers that we have listened to our potential users and acted on their comments. 

My design has now become a 3 wheeled tadpole shaped recumbent trike. It has electric assist, double wishbone suspension, a half shell (fairing), a boot and lights to name some of the features. I will try and post a current picture but it's not finished yet...

I have posted the results of the survey for anyone interested.


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## bianchi1 (12 Mar 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> My project is coming along nicely, thanks to help from some on here. I'm not hurt by any comments but some people do seem to have a high expectation of what an individual student can do in a few months. This is our final project and we were given a free rein on what to design. I chose a bike (vehicle) because I've been on 2 wheels since I was 3. Many in my class are designing chairs, prams and bottle lids. The reason for the survey is because we need to show our teachers that we have listened to our potential users and acted on their comments.
> 
> My design has now become a 3 wheeled tadpole shaped recumbent trike. It has electric assist, double wishbone suspension, a half shell (fairing), a boot and lights to name some of the features. I will try and post a current picture but it's not finished yet...
> 
> I have posted the results of the survey for anyone interested.



My experience was that when you undertake an independent study every one you speak to wants to becomes your personal tutor, despite often knowing nothing of your aims.

Best of luck with your studies, and cheers for the results.


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## Cledwyn (12 Mar 2013)




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## shouldbeinbed (12 Mar 2013)

sounds interesting and thank you for coming back, as Shaun said previously forum members do tend to get jaded and feel rather used 7 discarded by the annual influx of 1 or 2 post and gone design students. On several forums you're the first I've seen to come back with the results so fair play to you.

On the downside, reading your design I'm picturing a Sinclair C5 or one of those endurance concept races - how far can you pedal in an hour or how far can a vehicle travel on half a teacup of fuel. dunno if you've looked at those type things but if not I would, so that you can maximise your final mark by building in a few different tweaks and not being too derivative of existing designs.


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## Cledwyn (12 Mar 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> sounds interesting and thank you for coming back, as Shaun said previously forum members do tend to get jaded and feel rather used 7 discarded by the annual influx of 1 or 2 post and gone design students. On several forums you're the first I've seen to come back with the results so fair play to you.
> 
> On the downside, reading your design I'm picturing a Sinclair C5 or one of those endurance concept races - how far can you pedal in an hour or how far can a vehicle travel on half a teacup of fuel. dunno if you've looked at those type things but if not I would, so that you can maximise your final mark by building in a few different tweaks and not being too derivative of existing designs.


 
It has a lot of similarities to the Sinclair C5 but hopefully I have addressed the problems that the C5 had.


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## shouldbeinbed (12 Mar 2013)

Ah Ha, coss posting above - interesting, and more endurance than C5.

Where does the luggage go? I can only think it is in the top bit above and behind the rider. if so a couple of gripes. it makes for a much higher centre of gravity and liability to tip/blow over more easily directly above the single wheel and if you are hit from behind on it, how much of a increased incidence or severity of head injury would luggage there cause?

also what sort of ground clearance has your little green cog under the seat got for speed bumps and kerbs.

lastly I assume there are windscreen wipers on it.

edit - I also assume theres a front light and front indicators to replicate the rear illumination, its not clear on your front end image.


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## shouldbeinbed (12 Mar 2013)

sorry reading it back it all sounds doom and gloom, I'm not trying to pick it to bits, they are just the obvious questions I would ask in a shop if I were parting with hard earned cash for it.

I know its only a drawing as well but what I guess is the seeing out of area (cyan rather than grey faring) seems a tad high and small, personally I'd be happier with more clear visibility lower in front and to the side than you've drawn it with, and less of a greenhouse effect panoramic roof in summer. I like the mirror, I think you should you consider one on both sides though for better rearward visibility negotiating e.g right turns across multi lane roads and at roundabouts.


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## Cledwyn (12 Mar 2013)

This view may be better. Thank you for the responses.

-The window may need to be lower.
-The green wheel is a bit low and I may raise it up but it's no lower than on some other recumbents.
-Windscreen wipers... not sure on this. They may well be needed though.
-There are 2 mirrors. I think one fell off.
-The boot is behind the head... The batteries and rider are very low which I thinks sorts out the centre of gravity problem. As for being hit, I will have the seat extend to the top of the head for some protection.


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## shouldbeinbed (12 Mar 2013)

*Window*, definitely lower at the front, its one thing getting advance warning of a pothole but its vital to see them as you reach them too. looking at that as is, it looks like you'd lose sight of the road surface completely for a bike or two's length in front of the bike.

*Wipers,* definitely needed, as a driver too rain is a pain, snow is worse, they stick and smear and have a very quick very detrimental impact on the ability to accurately place items outside of the vehicle and their relative distance/closing speeds.

*high boot.* Still worries me a lot, there is potentially an unstable weight at a very elevated level on the machine, I take a weeks worth of food and drink into work & shop on my bike on the way home. Could you imagine cornering with a few bottles of liquid in there sloshing from side to side. CoG is much eaiser to destabilise than to create.
Try filling a couple of shopping bags with a few days food and a six pack of beer, slinging them on the handlebars of a normal bike and riding a few loopy circuits of the supermarket car park. I know you'd offset the swing against tighter packaging but that is mitigated by them being low CoG vs your weight being above head height

I would strongly suggest you look at panniers on the rear wheel rather than a roof box. still a danger from rear impact but you've got frame and better chance of solidifying the seat at lower level to protect your body and further helping keep the extra weight low and the bike stable.

I'd also speak with health and safety / legal people if this needs to be roadworthy to pass the course in terms of the potential damage rapifly accellerating tins of beans or pointy bike pumps etc could do even with an extended seat - how much extra weight would you need to incorporate into a headrest (and you do need one IMO), again very high up in the design, to make it properly safe as your head whiplashes back fast only to meet the items in the luggage box being accelerated rapidly forwards?


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## Fnaar (12 Mar 2013)

Here we go, just paste this pic into your work, the tutors'll never know the difference


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## Theseus (12 Mar 2013)

@Cledwyn: Thanks for coming back with the results and your designs.

It makes a nice change for this to happen and I for one appreciate it.


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## TheDoctor (16 Mar 2013)

^^This.
Very, very few students come back with their finished design, so it's good to see.
I'd be more impressed with the design if I hadn't seen a velomobile already though.


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## Shaun (18 Mar 2013)

Yes, if only all students would take the time to pop back and share their findings and designs with us.

Yours is the first I ever remember seeing where we got both the survey results _and_ design fed back to us, and it makes for interesting reading and gives people a sense of satisfaction that they participated.

Thanks - it's much appreciated. 

Cheers,
Shaun


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## bianchi1 (18 Mar 2013)

User said:


> We already have recumbents, fairings for recumbents and fully faired recumbents.
> 
> I'm not sure what your design adds. If anything, it looks impractical. Have you actually spoken to any serious recumbent riders?



I guess this is why people don't bother to share results/designs. They just get dismissed by individuals who have only a rough idea of the students brief or aims.


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## TheDoctor (18 Mar 2013)

You'd have thought so...


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## bianchi1 (18 Mar 2013)

User said:


> I'm not dismissing it. I'm pointing out that this is not a new design and one of the first things any designer does is scope out the existing provision.


 
He's not a designer, he's a design student..still learning.

I remember my first proper road bike back in the 80's (Raleigh Ritmo!). Basically the same as my present bike in terms of frame shape, gears, wheels etc, except that innovative ex design students have made improvements that have made that poor Ritmo look and feel its 30 years old. I am thankful that there are folk out there that who are willing to look at existing provision and not just shrug and say "that will do" but try something different.


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## bianchi1 (18 Mar 2013)

User said:


> And what he needs to learn to do is scope out what is already out there. Everything that he has suggested has been tried before and is already fairly refined.
> 
> Some of the stuff he suggests would benefit from further discussion with end users. Is an electrical assist really going to be worth the additional weight, particularly if this is combined with the fairing? Is the fairing going to be able to do what is suggested?



He's doing an independent study in his final year of university, as well as probably more modules with looming deadlines, and maybe perusing a hobby..and a full and lively social life (if you can't do it at uni, when can you?)...

My guess is that should he want to pursue the project after university and go into production, then the serious work begins. As a project a lot of the mark may lie in the process. And try to remember that the most important think here is the mark....not the bike/recumbent.


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## Shaun (18 Mar 2013)

I think the aim of the students is to show they can have an idea, research it, and produce a design brief - it would be very limiting if every student had to come up with a _totally original_ idea that hadn't been seen or tried before!!


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## ianrauk (18 Mar 2013)

Bottom line is - it's nice if the student's who tap into Cycle Chat's membership come back at a later date with their findings rather then posting a survey and never hearing from them again.
It's common courtesy.


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## 400bhp (18 Mar 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> View attachment 20349
> T


 
He's touching his gear stick and smiling.

Oooohhh matron


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## Cledwyn (30 Jul 2013)

Here is my final design. It's not perfect but I only had a limited amount of time. I graduated with a 1st class honours BSc and was selected to exhibit at London's 'New Designers' show. It was met with a lot of interest and I have a job interview in London, in a few weeks. So I'm happy. Thanks


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## Cheddar George (30 Jul 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> Here is my final design. It's not perfect but I only had a limited amount of time. I graduated with a 1st class honours BSc and was selected to exhibit at London's 'New Designers' show. It was met with a lot of interest and I have a job interview in London, in a few weeks. So I'm happy. Thanks


 
Congratulations !


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## Shaun (30 Jul 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> Here is my final design. It's not perfect but I only had a limited amount of time. I graduated with a 1st class honours BSc and was selected to exhibit at London's 'New Designers' show. It was met with a lot of interest and I have a job interview in London, in a few weeks. So I'm happy. Thanks


 
Congrats - looks cool - where can we buy it?


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## Licramite (31 Jul 2013)

I know its a bike , but because of your limited ability to indicate and thed vision problems you will need mirrors, and indicators on it. easily powered from a battery with an inbuilt dynamo.
Have you considered the wind resistance the sheild is going to create ?


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## Cledwyn (31 Jul 2013)

Licramite said:


> I know its a bike , but because of your limited ability to indicate and thed vision problems you will need mirrors, and indicators on it. easily powered from a battery with an inbuilt dynamo.
> Have you considered the wind resistance the sheild is going to create ?


 

Just so you know... It does have mirrors with integrated indicators, although they may be a bit small. It also has indicators at the front and rear. The screen has been designed to be aerodynamic (tear drop) so It will have less wind resistance than an exposed frame and person.


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## Shaun (31 Jul 2013)

Cledwyn said:


> Just so you know... It does have mirrors with integrated indicators, although they may be a bit small. It also has indicators at the front and rear. The screen has been designed to be aerodynamic (tear drop) so It will have less wind resistance than an exposed frame and person.


 
How much?


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