# Well, that's very nice.



## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

Ordered a pair of silicone Sealskin gloves from a private seller on Fleaby a couple of weeks ago. They arrived very promptly two days after purchase. Knock on the door this morning, the postie has delivered me a second pair!

Checked my account to make sure I haven't been charged for two pairs. Nope.

Now gonna look to see if the seller has any bikes for sale!


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## I like Skol (10 Feb 2017)

Send the second set back or your conscience will eat away at your soul until you can take it no more and you will end up attacking your bike/bikes/neighbour with an axe.


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2017)

You should take reasonable steps to let the supplier know and they can choose to collect at their cost/convenience or not.


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## Bimble (10 Feb 2017)

Do they sell laptops?


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## Adam4868 (10 Feb 2017)

What size and how much do you want for them.....


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## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

Yer, I must admit that I'm starting to have the first small prick of conscience. Might have to contact the seller and make him aware of his generosity!


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## ColinJ (10 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> You should take reasonable steps to let the supplier know and they can choose to collect at their cost/convenience or not.





Shortandcrisp said:


> Yer, I must admit that I'm starting to have the first small prick of conscience. Might have to contact the seller and make him aware of his generosity!


I ordered some domestic led lights from a company on eBay but they 'forgot' to send them!

After complaining to the company I received profuse apologies, and eventually my order was sent to me. 

Two days later another parcel arrived, containing a duplicate set of lights. I checked and the company had not charged me twice. I got in touch with them again and said that they could send a courier to pick them up but I was not going to post them.

Next day, I got a message from eBay saying that the vendor apologised for non-delivery and had refunded my payment. At which point, I gave up trying to do the right thing - I ended up with twice the number of lights that I had ordered, and had paid nothing for them!


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## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> What size and how much do you want for them.....



Medium. Cost £18 something - open to offers!


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## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

ColinJ said:


> I ordered some domestic led lights from a company on eBay but they 'forgot' to send them!
> 
> After complaining to the company I received profuse apologies, and eventually my order was sent to me.
> 
> ...



I suppose I could contact eBay and say that the item(s) wasn't as described and demand a full refund!


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## Rooster1 (10 Feb 2017)

It would only eat away at your soul if they had been overshoes.


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## Brandane (10 Feb 2017)

It's their incompetence; I would keep them and not let it bother my conscience. If they realise their mistake and ask you to return them at their expense then fair enough, but otherwise I wouldn't be bothering.


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## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> It's their incompetence; I would keep them and not let it bother my conscience. If they realise their mistake and ask you to return them at their expense then fair enough, but otherwise I wouldn't be bothering.



Probably what I'm gonna do. Keep them in the original packaging for now and check my eBay messages now and again!


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2017)

My understanding is that legally it would be theft and you are obliged to tell them. Had they sent you something you didn't order it is yours to keep. But as you did order something, but it came twice, the 2nd item is theirs.


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## NorthernDave (10 Feb 2017)

This has happened to me. I emailed them and asked if they wanted the item sending back, at their expense, or if they wanted to arrange collection.
They emailed me back and said to keep it.


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## I like Skol (10 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> My understanding is that legally it would be theft and you are obliged to tell them. Had they sent you something you didn't order it is yours to keep. But as you did order something, but it came twice, the 2nd item is theirs.


Let's dib him in.....


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## Shortandcrisp (10 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Let's dib him in.....



Barsteward!


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## I like Skol (10 Feb 2017)

I have had two memorable occasions of this kind of thing happening.

1st was when choosing an engagement ring with my current wife. We were in a small, independent, family owned jewellers and the lady owner was a bit of a dizzy thing. They were a lovely couple and very enthusiastic. She kept getting out more and more trays to show my wife alternative rings. The counter was getting a bit crowded and eventually the inevitable happened and one of the trays went over. We picked them all up and she put them back in the tray and I asked is that all of them? She looked at the tray and said yes, then carried on. We had visited the shop at lunch time then my wife went back to work. I got a excited phone call from her a few hours later, she had found one of the solitaire rings in the bottom of her handbag, what should she do, everyone in the office was telling her to keep it?
I told her to phone the jewellers, tell them you had the ring and would drop it off on your way home from work. It was probably worth about £2k and the shop might never have noticed it had gone and even if they did, would never know where it had gone but they were truly grateful and when we picked up our chosen rings a week or two later we were given a lovely bunch of flowers and some chocolates as a thank you. 

The 2nd event was less glamourous. I ordered a suspension lift kit for a friend's land rover because he wasn't very internet savvy. It duly arrived and I checked it over and noticed a small part was missing, just a shock absorber bush. I phoned the supplier and they promised to post out the missing item straight away. a couple of days later the missing part arrived then the next day another full kit turned up, worth around £350! I must admit I was tempted to sit on it for a couple of weeks and then if no one noticed to stick it on ebay for a reasonable sum. I resisted temptation and rang the company to inform them of their mistake. In the meantime I had another member of the car club take an interest in the kit for his car so I eventually passed it straight on to him and the company got paid a discounted amount to cover not having to courier the package back to them then out to the customer. I can't remember how it worked but I think I made £20 on the deal in the end....

There have been many other cases where I have done 'the right thing' without financial or material gain but I do feel spiritually and morally better for it in the long run, karma and all that.


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## Drago (10 Feb 2017)

Same thing happened to me when I ordered a set of tailored car mats for the Ford Fusion of Wee Wee and Cabaggeness. I contacted the seller and he told me to keep them, so now I got summer and winter mats.


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## Stinboy (10 Feb 2017)

Contact the seller and make them aware of their error. There's a reasonable chance they may just tell you to keep them given the price.



Brandane said:


> It's their incompetence; I would keep them and not let it bother my conscience. If they realise their mistake and ask you to return them at their expense then fair enough, but otherwise I wouldn't be bothering.



We all make mistakes, that's why the put rubbers on the end of pencils. Do you think it's right to punish peoples innate fallibility?


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## Brandane (10 Feb 2017)

Stinboy said:


> Do you think it's right to punish peoples innate fallibility?


There's a few possibilities here.
1. It's a one man band who might be significantly out of pocket. But he should keep better records; lesson learnt.
2. It's a big organisation who won't miss them.
3. It's a big organisation who _will_ miss them, and by bringing their attention to the mistake you might well be getting an employee into bother when it might otherwise have gone unnoticed. Hence why I justify keeping them unless otherwise notified by the seller.


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## Stinboy (10 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> There's a few possibilities here.
> 1. It's a one man band who might be significantly out of pocket. But he should keep better records; lesson learnt.
> 2. It's a big organisation who won't miss them.
> 3. It's a big organisation who _will_ miss them, and by bringing their attention to the mistake you might well be getting an employee into bother when it might otherwise have gone unnoticed. Hence why I justify keeping them unless otherwise notified by the seller.



There's more than 3, but to consider the ones you've spotted:

1. Is it really the OPs job (or anyones for that matter) to be giving lessons on how to keep proper accounting records? In any case, if it were brought to their attention, that would highlight the fact their record keeping is crap, and they could do something about it. 'Lesson learnt' as you say. If you do nothing and keep the item, they don't learn anything in the short run do they?
2. It's lazy and all too convenient to assume this and use it as justification. Tell you what, lets extend that to all large organisations who 'won't miss' their stock. I'm off in a bit to wander into Evans and pinch a brand new bike. They have loads of them up and down the country. Loads and loads.
3. Getting an employee into bother? Really? This is more likely to happen when the 'big organisations' robust (most likely) detective internal controls kick in. Assuming that the OP recieved a despatch note with the second pair of gloves, that will appear as unmatched to a sales invoice/payment reciept. And thus the employee is 'in bother'.

Good attempt at trying to defend what is, let's face it, a pretty crap attitude though.

Keep up the good work


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## Brandane (10 Feb 2017)

Stinboy said:


> I'm off in a bit to wander into Evans and pinch a brand new bike.



That is theft. When some incompetent company or individual sends something to your address, you haven't stolen it. It isn't your job to return it to them; that smacks of the policies of companies in the 80's who sent you LP records along with an invoice, whether you wanted them or not. It was then YOUR responsibility to return them if you didn't want them! Thankfully that practice was stamped out IIRC..



Stinboy said:


> Keep up the good work



Thanks. I will.


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## Stinboy (10 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> *That is theft*. When some incompetent company or individual sends something to your address, you haven't stolen it. It isn't your job to return it to them; that smacks of the policies of companies in the 80's who sent you LP records along with an invoice, whether you wanted them or not. It was then YOUR responsibility to return them if you didn't want them! Thankfully that practice was stamped out IIRC..
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I will.



Good spot!

Seriously mate - stop digging


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## Brandane (10 Feb 2017)

Stinboy said:


> stop digging


Your experience of the law is what?


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## I like Skol (10 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Your experience of the law is what?


I don't think he is talking from a legal viewpoint, just taking a bearing from his moral compass, which appears to point in a different direction to yours!


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## Stinboy (10 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Your experience of the law is what?



My experience of the law is irrelevant, surely? 

The reason why I suggested that you 'stop digging' is to save us all having to go back and forth with the same arguments. Your position on keeping any item sent to you in error, whether it be legal or not, is tenuous at best. I'm not one to harp on about ethics or morals, but I like Skol pretty much has the sum of it.


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## Drago (10 Feb 2017)

To muddy the waters further, what if Rupert Murdoch sent it? Not only is he so wealthy that he won't notice, but he's a despotic tyrant so surely deserves to have it sequestered?


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## Markymark (10 Feb 2017)

Stealing from the rich is ok because they won't notice?

Ffs.


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## dan_bo (10 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Send the second set back or your conscience will eat away at your soul until you can take it no more and you will end up attacking your bike/bikes/neighbour with an axe.


That's possibly the funniest thing youve ever said. 


Very true as well.


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## dan_bo (10 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> I have had two memorable occasions of this kind of thing happening.
> 
> 1st was when choosing an engagement ring with my current wife. We were in a small, independent, family owned jewellers and the lady owner was a bit of a dizzy thing. They were a lovely couple and very enthusiastic. She kept getting out more and more trays to show my wife alternative rings. The counter was getting a bit crowded and eventually the inevitable happened and one of the trays went over. We picked them all up and she put them back in the tray and I asked is that all of them? She looked at the tray and said yes, then carried on. We had visited the shop at lunch time then my wife went back to work. I got a excited phone call from her a few hours later, she had found one of the solitaire rings in the bottom of her handbag, what should she do, everyone in the office was telling her to keep it?
> I told her to phone the jewellers, tell them you had the ring and would drop it off on your way home from work. It was probably worth about £2k and the shop might never have noticed it had gone and even if they did, would never know where it had gone but they were truly grateful and when we picked up our chosen rings a week or two later we were given a lovely bunch of flowers and some chocolates as a thank you.
> ...


And nobody had to die.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Feb 2017)

Send them to me, to make up for that 30 quid Planet X stole off me last year.


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> There's a few possibilities here.
> 1. It's a one man band who might be significantly out of pocket. But he should keep better records; lesson learnt.
> 2. It's a big organisation who won't miss them.
> 3. It's a big organisation who _will_ miss them, and by bringing their attention to the mistake you might well be getting an employee into bother when it might otherwise have gone unnoticed. Hence why I justify keeping them unless otherwise notified by the seller.


Is there a cut off with regards to the value of the item or the size of the organisation or are you as morally reprehensible across the board?


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Mugshot said:


> Is there a cut off with regards to the value of the item or the size of the organisation


Yes there is, but the OP was about a pair of gloves FFS..
Never mind; I didn't realise I was on a forum with such a high number of sanctimonious nobbers. Well actually I did .


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## Stinboy (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Yes there is, but the OP was about a pair of gloves FFS..
> Never mind; I didn't realise I was on a forum with such a high number of sanctimonious nobbers. Well actually I did .



Can you please tell us what the level is? I want to stop being a 'santimonious nobber' and be more like you


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Yes there is, but the OP was about a pair of gloves FFS..
> Never mind; I didn't realise I was on a forum with such a high number of sanctimonious nobbers. Well actually I did .


I've may have got this wrong, but did you used to be a copper?


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Mugshot said:


> I've may have got this wrong, but did you used to be a copper?


Just checked, yes you were.


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Mugshot said:


> I've may have got this wrong, but did you used to be a copper?


Yes; and.........?? By definition (in Scots law) the circumstances in the OP are not theft.


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Stinboy said:


> Can you please tell us what the level is? I want to stop being a 'santimonious nobber' and be more like you


Don't waste your time, sunshine. You've either got it, or you haven't. And you haven't.


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Yes; and.........?? By definition (in Scots law) the circumstances in the OP are not theft.


The law states it is unless on this specific law it is different is Scotland? And does the op live in Scotland?


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Yes; and.........?? By definition (in Scots law) the circumstances in the OP are not theft.


Well, sometimes it's nice to think that the moral compass of those that are charged with upholding the law points in the right direction, but then I did say used to be.
"How much did you have nicked love, £20? Well you should have held on to ya purse tighter then!"


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> Stealing from the rich is ok because they won't notice?
> 
> Ffs.


Well quite, and stealing from the poor is ok as it will teach them a lesson.


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## Stinboy (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Don't waste your time, sunshine. You've either got it, or you haven't. And you haven't.



I'm beginning to realise that, and believe me I won't be wasting my time trying son. But really, what's the level?


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> The law states it is unless on this specific law it is different is Scotland? And does the op live in Scotland?


Most laws are different in Scotland, apart from road traffic stuff. Does the OP live in England? There is no reference to location and as this is the WWW it wouldn't do to make assumptions. The centre of the universe is not England after all.


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Mugshot said:


> How much did you have nicked love





Mugshot said:


> stealing from the poor



Once again, the circumstances in the OP are NOT theft.


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Most laws are different in Scotland, apart from road traffic stuff. Does the OP live in England? There is no reference to location and as this is the WWW it wouldn't do to make assumptions. The centre of the universe is not England after all.


Is the law for this different in Scotland?


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> Is the law for this different in Scotland?


I don't know what the law is in ENGLAND, so cannot comment. HTH..


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Once again, the circumstances in the OP are NOT theft.


Maybe not, however, it would appear that the goods were not unsolicited with any sort malice on the part of the vendor, so your suggestion that the goods should be kept in order to deprive the vendor of them to either teach them a lesson or because they wont notice anyway is a despicable attitude.


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## Banjo (11 Feb 2017)

No way would I move to Scotland just for a free pair of gloves.
If they throw in a set of arm warmers as well I will think about it.


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> I don't know what the law is in ENGLAND, so cannot comment. HTH..


I told you up thread. It is theft if sent twice and kept without notifying in England. So, is it dufferent to that in Scotland?


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## Dirtyhanz (11 Feb 2017)

The Op has asked are advice on a moral question we will all see that question differently I am not judging anyone 
People make mistakes 
When I make a mistake I liked to be corrected so I try not to do it again I sell and buy a lot on cycle chat and have done for nearly 10 years I have never been let down as a seller or a buyer it's about trust 
Trust I give people as a buyer and trust people give me as a seller we are a community that loves cycling and talking about cycling but this does not give us a moral advantage so only the OP can make what he believes to be correct


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## Drago (11 Feb 2017)

At the moment the recipient decides to dishonestly appropriate it the matter becomes a theft.

However, in an age where it's deemed acceptable to claim thousands for non existent whiplash injuries I doubt many folk would morally regard it as dishonest.


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> I told you up thread. It is theft if sent twice and kept without notifying in England. So, is it dufferent to that in Scotland?


I told you upthread, several times now. By definition, the circumstances in the OP in Scots law, are not theft. Theft in Scotland is a crime at common law consisting of the felonious taking and appropriating the property of another without lawful authority or the consent of the owner. If someone shoves something through your letter box, you haven't taken it. That being an essential element of the crime makes it a non starter in a Scottish court. The owner of the property may well be able to pursue it through the civil courts but that's a different matter.


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> I told you upthread, several times now. By definition, the circumstances in the OP in Scots law, are not theft. Theft in Scotland is a crime at common law consisting of the felonious taking and appropriating the property of another without lawful authority or the consent of the owner. If someone shoves something through your letter box, you haven't taken it. That being an essential element of the crime makes it a non starter in a Scottish court. The owner of the property may well be able to pursue it through the civil courts but that's a different matter.


So?


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## Stinboy (11 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> *I told you upthread, several times now*. By definition, the circumstances in the OP in Scots law, are not theft. Theft in Scotland is a crime at common law consisting of the felonious taking and appropriating the property of another without lawful authority or the consent of the owner. If someone shoves something through your letter box, you haven't taken it. That being an essential element of the crime makes it a non starter in a Scottish court. The owner of the property may well be able to pursue it through the civil courts but that's a different matter.



Why do you persist in trying to turn this into a point of law? It seems to be causing you a fair degree of frustration.

It doesn't matter what legal jurisdiction applies, whether it be Scotland, England ( 'the centre of the universe'? - ffs), Wales or Chile. Just because something is legal (or not) doesn't make it right. Your arguments seem to centre around the fact that if it's legal, it's ok and even if it were not legal, there is some vague level (which you refuse to expand upon) that makes it ok.

And you seem incredulous that others (including me) take exception to this and have the temerity to diasagree with you - to the point of being being abusive.

If every member of any society held these views - do you think things would be better or worse?


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## alicat (11 Feb 2017)

I have just wasted five minutes of my life reading about so-called grown ups deliberately causing and taking offence over somebody else's greed over some unsolicited goods. More fool me.


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

alicat said:


> I have just wasted five minutes of my life reading about *so-called grown ups *deliberately causing and taking offence over somebody else's greed over some unsolicited goods. More fool me.


Are they better or worse than so-called judges?


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## smokeysmoo (11 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> 1st was when choosing an engagement ring with *my current wife*.


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## I like Skol (11 Feb 2017)

Perhaps I should elaborate, currently my only wife. But I am constantly reminding her, there are no guarantees and she needs to keep on her toes


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> currently my only wife


Yeah, that's better


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## Shortandcrisp (11 Feb 2017)

One word - bloody hell! Sorry, that's two words. Apologies.

Is it my responsibility to inform the vendor of his error (morally/legally or whatever!) or is it merely the case that I should keep the gloves as sent and wait for his response?

Stands back to avoid getting blood on his collar.


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## I like Skol (11 Feb 2017)

As has already been said, let the vendor know. Explain that it will be inconvenient for you to take these to the post office so can they arrange collection at a time convenient to you. Given the relatively low value of the item there is a good chance they will simply let you have them. This way everyone is happy.


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## midlife (11 Feb 2017)

Keeping them is a sin and you will burn forever in the flames of damnation......


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## Markymark (11 Feb 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> One word - bloody hell! Sorry, that's two words. Apologies.
> 
> Is it my responsibility to inform the vendor of his error (morally/legally or whatever!) or is it merely the case that I should keep the gloves as sent and wait for his response?
> 
> Stands back to avoid getting blood on his collar.


It is your responsibility to tell the vendor and inform them that collection will have to be convenient to you and free. They may or may not choose to collect but that's their decision.

I hope to god I don't ever accidentally drop a £20 note in front of most of you lot in the hope you may pick it up and tell me rather than keep it and smugly claim it's morally yours.

What a bunch of self centred and entitled people in this thread.


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## Mugshot (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> I hope to god I don't ever accidentally drop a £20 note in front of most of you lot in the hope you may pick it up and tell me rather than keep it and smugly claim it's morally yours.


Well as there is an as yet unstated cut off point before moral bankruptcy hopefully you'll drop a big enough wedge to tip the balance of the scales of common courtesy back in your favour.


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## postman (11 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Let's dib him in.....


 





Youa dida great ajob afinding outa bout the Nun's bicycle.Nowa sum CycleChat basstardo has two paira gloves thata nit iz.Find im and finish eet.


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## Shortandcrisp (11 Feb 2017)

I've sent him/her a message on eBay. Will give everyone an update when or if I get a reply, lest some honourable cyclechaters are on tenterhooks.


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## potsy (11 Feb 2017)

I'd have kept 'em


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## Shortandcrisp (11 Feb 2017)

potsy said:


> I'd have kept 'em



Still might!


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## I like Skol (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> I hope to god I don't ever accidentally drop a £20 note in front of most of you lot in the hope you may pick it up and tell me rather than keep it and smugly claim it's morally yours.
> 
> What a bunch of self centred and entitled people in this thread.





Mugshot said:


> Well as there is an as yet unstated cut off point before moral bankruptcy hopefully you'll drop a big enough wedge to tip the balance of the scales of common courtesy back in your favour.


Talking of karma, it does seem to work.
I was on my way home from a 12hr night shift a few years ago and had to stop off at a cash machine. Popped in the card, punched in the PIN, selected £100 and started thinking about my bed while the ATM did its thing. Out came my card which I slid back into the cardholder before turning and walking back to my car. I hadn't got far when the woman that had been waiting behind me shouted "Hey mate, don't you want your money?" .......
Payback perhaps for all the times I haven't taken advantage of other peoples mistakes? Thank god it wasn't Brandane behind me, he would probably have trousered the cash and thought he was doing me a favour by teaching me a lesson for being such a dozy sod!


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## Brandane (11 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> I hope to god I don't ever accidentally drop a £20 note in front of most of you lot in the hope you may pick it up and tell me rather than keep it and smugly claim it's morally yours.





I like Skol said:


> Thank god it wasn't Brandane behind me, he would probably have trousered the cash



Just to clarify; those 2 examples ARE theft. Theft by finding, as you have feloniously TAKEN and appropriated someone else's property. They haven't posted it out to you, whether in error or not. Jeez - this forum can be hard going at times.


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Feb 2017)

Police men/women, solicitors and accountants can be unyielding in applying the law verbatim


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Police men/women, solicitors and accountants can be unyielding in applying the law verbatim


Probably!
It comes from years spent trying to close off every possible loop-hole in court while lawyers try to open them .
His Lordship at Greenock Sheriff Court isn't going to sum up with "well the accused hasn't actually broken any laws, but he was morally in the wrong so I'm going to find him guilty anyway". That only happens on CycleChat, where I am now labelled a thief by some .


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## SuperHans123 (12 Feb 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Send the second set back or your conscience will eat away at your soul until you can take it no more and you will end up attacking your bike/bikes/neighbour with an axe.


This thread should have ended after reply one.


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## midlife (12 Feb 2017)

Does the OP have legal title over the extra goods and by keeping them is he permanently depriving the owner of the enjoyment of them?

Just curious.

Shaun


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> Come on Brandane, no one has 'labelled' you a thief, you haven't stolen anything. People are just a bit surprised at your apparent encouragement of someone else to steal something, which might seem to involve a certain double standard.


But ..... That's my whole point; it ISN'T stealing!! I agree that it might be morally wrong to keep the gloves as per the OP, but for the sake of an £18 pair of gloves I'm being honest and saying that I wouldn't be bothering to contact the seller to arrange their collection - or send them back, or whatever else might or might not happen. Cost effectiveness over value of goods assessment having firstly been done of course, to answer somebody's earlier question. So yes, if it had been a Pinarello Dogma that had been pushed through my letter box I would have been right onto the seller, but not because I believe it would be criminal to keep it.


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## Bobby Mhor (12 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> .
> His Lordship at *Greenock Sheriff Court* isn't going to sum up with "well the accused hasn't actually broken any laws, but he was morally in the wrong so I'm going to find him guilty anyway". That only happens on CycleChat, where I am now labelled a thief by some .


Somewhere on Cyclechat I've actually been


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Somewhere on Cyclechat I've actually been


I was there about twice per week for 19 years! I didn't have to sit on the wee bench down at the front though; the one with "BM was here" carved into it .


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> You seemed to think keeping them would teach the person who made the mistake a lesson, does that not apply to the bike?


Yes it does apply to the bike; but as I said the greater value of the bike means that for me, it passes the threshold of "cost effectiveness over value of goods" and I would take reasonable steps to return it.
To take this same scenario to ridiculous extremes, if ChainReaction accidentally included an extra packet of Haribo in their order, would some posters be contacting them to arrange their return?


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> I would assume they were being generous with the Haribo, since they don't sell Haribo.


Yes, but you know fine well you are only supposed to get one packet per order; so morally, what do you do?


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> I have already told you, Brandane, and I can see you would never reconsider your stance on keeping something that isn't yours, which as others have said is an odd stance for an ex-copper. No more arguing from me on that one.


You forgot to mention that my stance depends on the value of the goods, as outlined in post #76. Haribo, gloves, or Dogma?
I maintain my stance in the case of an £18 pair of gloves.

However; scoffing an extra packet of Haribo today? Tomorrow you'll be walking into your local bank with a sawn-off demanding the contents of the safe! Or at least that seems to be the thinking of some posters on this thread.


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## StuAff (12 Feb 2017)

I've frequently had multiple packs of Haribo in Wiggle orders. Damn right in the case of my more expensive orders...


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## Bobby Mhor (12 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> I was there about twice per week for 19 years! I didn't have to sit on the wee bench down at the front though; the one with "BM was here" carved into it .


BF, actually


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## midlife (12 Feb 2017)

I wouldn't bother selling the extra pair as I recall you can't spend the dosh for 6 years....

Shaun


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

StuAff said:


> I've frequently had multiple packs of Haribo in Wiggle orders. Damn right in the case of my more expensive orders...


How can you sleep at night?


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## Shortandcrisp (12 Feb 2017)

Further to my last update.

Received a reply to my message to the seller this morning:

" Dear Buyer

You get more of what you need? "

To which I've replied, " Yes thank you "

I'm no Miss Marple, but I suspect English is not the sellers first language.


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## velovoice (12 Feb 2017)

Shortandcrisp said:


> Further to my last update.
> 
> Received a reply to my message to the seller this morning:
> 
> ...


I'd be worried they've taken that as a second order!


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## Markymark (12 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Tomorrow you'll be walking into your local bank with a sawn-off demanding the contents of the safe!


But if you only stole £50 and the bank could easily afford it, who cares, right?


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## Brandane (12 Feb 2017)

Markymark said:


> But if you only stole £50 and the bank could easily afford it, who cares, right?


Zzzzzz......


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## potsy (12 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> it passes the threshold of "cost effectiveness over value of goods"


Just out of interest, what would the cost of the gloves had to have been before this did warrant letting the seller know?


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## youngoldbloke (12 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> Yes, but you know fine well you are only supposed to get one packet per order; so morally, what do you do?


I got TWO packs of Haribo with a very modest order from Tredz last week. What a conundrum!


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## Mugshot (12 Feb 2017)

It's rather sad when the decision as to whether you're going to do the right thing and be a decent human being revolves around the effort involved.


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## jefmcg (13 Feb 2017)

Brandane said:


> But ..... That's my whole point; it ISN'T stealing!!


If money is paid into your bank account in error, and you spend it, that's a crime. Google says that's true in Australia, New Zealand, USA, and England which would suggest it's roots are in English common law.

I really don't see the difference between money shoved in your bank account and goods shoved through your door. Of course, if the police were asked to take action in a case where £18 worth of gloves were accidentally sent to someone (with no suggestion of fraud involved) I'd expect them to laugh it off (but not for the Dogma, of course) - but there are plenty of crimes the police don't pursue.


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## Globalti (13 Feb 2017)

We had this recently when we bought some batteries off Fleabay. We contacted the seller twice inviting them to collect the second pack and they didn't reply so after about four months having made reasonable efforts we used them. Unsolicited goods, I think the Law calls it.


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## wajc (14 Feb 2017)

Globalti said:


> We had this recently when we bought some batteries off Fleabay. We contacted the seller twice inviting them to collect the second pack and they didn't reply so after about four months having made reasonable efforts we used them. Unsolicited goods, I think the Law calls it.



You've done exactly the right thing contacting the seller and giving them fair time to respond, but technically they are not unsolicited goods.

https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/mon...s/can-i-keep-goods-delivered-to-me-by-mistake


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## si_c (15 Feb 2017)

My Dad ordered an electric radiator heater from Argos a couple of years ago. When it arrived the box was correct, but contained five Canon DSLRs worth £1300 each.

He contacted Argos but they wanted him to return them to them at his own cost. It took him quite a bit of effort to persuade them to arrange collection. They didn't seem too interested.


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## youngoldbloke (15 Feb 2017)

Some years ago I ordered a set of carbon forks online. When the package arrived I opened it to find that the forks were well wrapped using in addition to the usual bubble wrap a brand new transparent 'race cape' type jacket listed at around £65 - I tried it on, it fitted, I kept it.


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## Bimble (15 Feb 2017)

Does it need more pages of analysis? Aren't there rules, regulations and laws for this sort of thing that give the specifics as to who is responsible for what and how long a time period is required before you can use / dispose of unwanted items delivered to you?


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## Shortandcrisp (15 Feb 2017)

Just heard from the seller. Told me to keep them and have a good day. I know it's probably not worth the hassle of having them returned, but fair play to him/her!


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