# Cyclist down (London)



## Matthew_T (22 Jun 2012)

Well my dad told me an interesting story tonight whilst travelling from Sainsbury's. He said that today as he was walking to the train station, he saw a cyclist get knocked down by a van.

Apparently the cyclist had been cycling on the pavement even though there was a CS on the road. He approached a side road at some speed and crossed without looking. A van turning from the main road into the side street went into the side of him, knocking him over.
The cyclist accepted fault and was not wearing a helmet. Apparently the bike was a bit damaged but my dad said that he had one which appeared to be expensive, so my dad presumed he would have the money to afford repairs.

My dad said that he shouldnt have been on the pavement as there were many other pedestrians about and there was a fully utilisable CS on the road which he could have used.

The cyclist wasnt injured but I hope he has learnt his lesson. I dont know if there was any damage to the van.


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## Miquel In De Rain (22 Jun 2012)

He wasn't wearing a helmutt?

That's disgraceful.


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## Red Light (22 Jun 2012)

Miquel In De Rain said:


> He wasn't wearing a helmutt?
> 
> That's disgraceful.


 
Not wearing a helmutt saved his life


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## Matthew_T (22 Jun 2012)

Red Light said:


> Not wearing a helmutt saved his life


By the sounds of it, the alertness of the van driver saved his life.


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## Red Light (22 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> By the sounds of it, the alertness of the van driver saved his life.


 
So alert he ran into him. Sorry Mate I Was So Alert I Didn't See You.


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## gaz (22 Jun 2012)

There was another cyclist down today on CS7 by Union road. Looked pretty serious, police had closed the road and where not even letting cyclists walk on the pavement.


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## ianrauk (23 Jun 2012)

If only he was wearing a helmet. It may have stopped him from being knocked off the bike.


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## Adasta (24 Jun 2012)

gaz said:


> There was another cyclist down today on CS7 by Union road. Looked pretty serious, police had closed the road and where not even letting cyclists walk on the pavement.


 
Ah, was that what it was? There were tailbacks into Vauxhall. I thought it might have had something to do with the bus strikes.


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## Miquel In De Rain (24 Jun 2012)

Adasta said:


> Ah, was that what it was? There were tailbacks into Vauxhall. I thought it might have had something to do with the bus strikes.


 

Lack of buses caused tailbacks?


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## HovR (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> The cyclist accepted fault and *was not wearing a helmet.*


 
Not wanting to start a helmet thread here, but this annoys me. Why is it that when a cyclist is involved in a crash, and isn't wearing a helmet, it is always mentioned in a negative way - Even if there was no head injury!

How is it even relevant? Some people choose to wear helmets, some choose not to. You don't hear non-helmet wearers complaining about how they saw a cyclist going down the street wearing a helmet..


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## Matthew_T (24 Jun 2012)

HovR said:


> Not wanting to start a helmet thread here, but this annoys me. Why is it that when a cyclist is involved in a crash, and isn't wearing a helmet, it is always mentioned in a negative way - Even if there was no head injury!
> 
> How is it even relevant? Some people choose to wear helmets, some choose not to. You don't hear non-helmet wearers complaining about how they saw a cyclist going down the street wearing a helmet..


I didnt mean it as a negative comment. I meant that it could have been a factor if he had seriously hit his head when falling down.


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## ianrauk (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I didnt mean it as a negative comment. I meant that it could have been a factor if he had seriously hit his head when falling down.


 

IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF BLEEDIN' ALWAYS IF


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## gaz (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I didnt mean it as a negative comment. I meant that it could have been a factor if he had seriously hit his head when falling down.


Clench your fist, hold your arm out in front of you and stand than distance + 1 inch away from a wall.
Punch at the wall and you miss.
Add 1.5inches of foam around your fist.
Punch at the wall and the foam has saved your fist?


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## Matthew_T (24 Jun 2012)

gaz said:


> Clench your fist, hold your arm out in front of you and stand than distance + 1 inch away from a wall.
> Punch at the wall and you miss.
> Add 1.5inches of foam around your fist.
> Punch at the wall and the foam has saved your fist?


Fair point. But I am not really bothered about helmet wearing or not. When my dad tald me about the incident, he just seemed to make it sound like not having a helmet on was a contributing factor to the incident (I dont know why as the cyclist was just an idiot).
My whole family have a strong feeling about helmets and always make sure that me and my brother are wearing one (I always wear one so they dont bother me much). My Nan is the worst. She constantly pesters me to wear one and I always tell her that I always do when on the roads.


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## Norm (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> But I am not really bothered about helmet wearing or not.


 Only you obviously are bothered or you wouldn't have written anything about the helmet.

"not really bothered" could describe how you feel about gloves or knee-pads, which would have been *much* more likely to have offered some protection but their presence / absence went unremarked in your post.

Ask yourself why you commented on the helmet but not the gloves and I think you'll realise that you really are that bothered about it.

Once we've got your perceptions aligned with reality, we can start to work on your family.


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## potsy (24 Jun 2012)

Is Matthew wearing a helmet in his avatar?


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## Norm (24 Jun 2012)

potsy said:


> Is Matthew wearing a helmet in his avatar?


No... but he is wearing gloves.


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## gaz (24 Jun 2012)

Norm said:


> gloves or knee-pads, which would have been *much* more likely to have offered some protection


I saw someone wearing full bodyarmor when commuting to work..


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## locker (24 Jun 2012)

gaz said:


> I saw someone wearing full bodyarmor when commuting to work..


S-o-W?


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## Red Light (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> My Nan is the worst. She constantly pesters me to wear one and I always tell her that I always do when on the roads.


 
Is she a cyclist? Does she know anything about helmets?


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## Matthew_T (24 Jun 2012)

Red Light said:


> Is she a cyclist? Does she know anything about helmets?


No. She just thinks a lot about me.


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## Red Light (24 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> No. She just thinks a lot about me.


 
Well why don't you think for yourself for a change rather than taking advice from someone who, however well meaning, knows nothing about the subject they are pretending to be expert in?


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## Norm (24 Jun 2012)

[QUOTE 1904080, member: 1314"]Matthew T is a troll.[/quote]
Is one opinion, and isn't one that I agree with. I read Matthew's words and remember that I was young and had a grandmother I cared about once. I got to be 25 years old before admitting to my family that I smoked, 34 before building the courage to get a motorbike and 48 before I had "the helmet debate" with any of them.


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## Pat "5mph" (25 Jun 2012)

Red Light said:


> Well why don't you think for yourself for a change rather than taking advice from someone who, however well meaning, knows nothing about the subject they are pretending to be expert in?


 
[QUOTE 1904080, member: 1314"]Matthew T is a troll.[/quote]

Helmets and incident aside, it is not becoming to grown guys to tell an 18 year old boy to disregard his family's wishes, or to dismiss him as troll, even in jest. Even on the faceless internet.
Not nice at all, me thinks, IMH (old fashioned, no doubt) opinion, of course.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jun 2012)

I agree with the above. Give the guy a break!


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## BentMikey (25 Jun 2012)

It's User - he was having a laugh. You lot are taking him entirely too seriously, and now I'm also laughing.


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## Norm (25 Jun 2012)

BentMikey said:


> It's User - he was having a laugh. You lot are taking him entirely too seriously, and now I'm also laughing.


Given Matthew has already commented several times that people are riding his ass for no reason, that makes User and you appear pretty insensitive. 

Which is a surprise, from User.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jun 2012)

Sometimes I think I was fortunate not to have the Internet when I was 18. It's always been a time of life that, when we look back at it later, we cringe at so much that we did or said. But now you get a souvenir that lasts forever - and that anyone in the world can look at.


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## lulubel (25 Jun 2012)

Norm said:


> Only you obviously are bothered or you wouldn't have written anything about the helmet.
> 
> Ask yourself why you commented on the helmet but not the gloves and I think you'll realise that you really are that bothered about it.


 
It looked to me like Matthew was just reporting what his dad had said, including the comment about the lack of helmet.


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## BentMikey (25 Jun 2012)

Hahahaha, I doubt it. Matthew was being entirely serious, and User was just joking. Take a chill pill mate. I'm amazed that I can see this so easily, I'm normally quite bad at detecting English humour.


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## Red Light (25 Jun 2012)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Sometimes I think I was fortunate not to have the Internet when I was 18. It's always been a time of life that, when we look back at it later, we cringe at so much that we did or said. But now you get a souvenir that lasts forever - and that anyone in the world can look at.


 
We only have his word for it that he's 18


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jun 2012)

Matt - would you please scan your passport? This is to verify your identity.

Yours

The Internet Control Squad


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## Matthew_T (25 Jun 2012)

How does not having a helmet being a contributing factor to the fact that he could have seriously been caused some damage mean that I am bothered about him not wearing a helmet?
Him not having a helmet on does not mean that I am neither bothered or not. I see loads of cyclists in my area who constantly ride on the pavement and dont wear a helmet. I dont go around telling all of them what I think of their safety do I? The comment on the helmet was relating to the cyclists disregard for his own safety. He had a high end bike and was fully capable of purchasing a helmet, but he didnt.


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## ianrauk (25 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> How does not having a helmet being a contributing factor to the fact that he could have seriously been caused some damage mean that I am bothered about him not wearing a helmet?
> Him not having a helmet on does not mean that I am neither bothered or not. I see loads of cyclists in my area who constantly ride on the pavement and dont wear a helmet. I dont go around telling all of them what I think of their safety do I? The comment on the helmet was relating to the cyclists disregard for his own safety. He had a high end bike and was fully capable of purchasing a helmet, but he didnt.


 

I have a high end bike, probably more high end then his... should I be buying a helmet then? I mean, I am capable and can afford a helmet. But I chose not to. Is that not the right thing then Matthew? Am I disregarding my own safety?


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## martint235 (25 Jun 2012)

I also have a high end bike. I have a not so high end bike. I ride both of them a lot. I also own two helmets, one of which could be classed as high end (well I saw someone in the TdF with the same one) but I wear neither. I dread to think what this means about my feelings towards my own safety?


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## Matthew_T (25 Jun 2012)

ianrauk said:


> I have a high end bike, probably more high end then his... should I be buying a helmet then? I mean, I am capable and can afford a helmet. But I chose not to. Is that not the right thing then Matthew? Am I disregarding my own safety?



I am not in the mood to start a debate about helmets. People have different views on the situation and that is that. You cannot change those views as you are then changing the person. Some people dont like change, some people like me. I will stick to my views and everyone else can stick to theirs. I am not bothered.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jun 2012)

Here we go again...
Mathew: I've defended you on this thread because I was 18 once and I remember saying things and doing things that I shouldn't have because I was young, inexperienced and quite frankly naive. I said that I don't think it's fair that people call you a troll and "extract the Michael" out of you and I stand by that. But you're really going to have to learn to stop making comments like that! Sometimes you just have to accept that everyone has their own opinion and it's best not to sound like you're getting on your high horse.


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## locker (25 Jun 2012)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Here we go again...
> Mathew: I've defended you on this thread because I was 18 once and I remember saying things and doing things that I shouldn't have because I was young, inexperienced and quite frankly naive. I said that I don't think it's fair that people call you a troll and "extract the Michael" out of you and I stand by that. But you're really going to have to learn to stop making comments like that! Sometimes you just have to accept that everyone has their own opinion and it's best not to sound like you're getting on your high horse.


How condescending, I can`t hear a thing from Matthew only what he has written, it is the way he writes it or the way you read it?


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jun 2012)

Some people clearly _are_ reading him as being condescending.


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## locker (25 Jun 2012)

ianrauk said:


> I have a high end bike, probably more high end then his... should I be buying a helmet then? I mean, I am capable and can afford a helmet. But I chose not to. Is that not the right thing then Matthew? Am I disregarding my own safety?


 
The choice is yours if you want to disregard your own safety but some only disregard their own safety if they ride like a dick (I know you don`t), choice is good, I used to wear a crash helmet but I used to ride like a dick, I still wear a crash helmet because most of the dicks drive cars.


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## Matthew_T (25 Jun 2012)

I have not said at all the people who dont wear helmets are dicks. Why is this subject so sensitive to some people? My personal opinion on the matter is that people should wear helmets when on the roads. I dont care if they dont because I dont know them. I dont go around telling everyone to wear a helmet because i would get beat up doing that. Calm down guys.


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## Red Light (25 Jun 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I dont go around telling all of them what I think of their safety do I?


 
and



> The comment on the helmet was relating to the cyclists disregard for his own safety. He had a high end bike and was fully capable of purchasing a helmet, but he didnt.


 
How do you reconcile those two statements?

I have a high regard for my own safety so I don't wear a helmet even though I am perfectly capable of purchasing one. How does that fit in with your world view?


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## Matthew_T (25 Jun 2012)

*Sigh* :handonface:


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## gaz (25 Jun 2012)

ianrauk said:


> I have a high end bike, probably more high end then his... should I be buying a helmet then? I mean, I am capable and can afford a helmet. But I chose not to. Is that not the right thing then Matthew? Am I disregarding my own safety?


You have those safety tats. no one comes near you with those :P


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## marafi (25 Jun 2012)

Hmmm, well other then like you said the cyclist being an idiot. I wear a helmet though only to carry my camera for me now. As i have bruised my face when i fell off the bike once.


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## Scoosh (26 Jun 2012)

This thread is going nowhere. 

Except to Helmet Debates.


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## Boris Bajic (26 Jun 2012)

Whooppee! A new helmet debate.

I, for one, never wear a helmet in London. I wear one occasionally (training with middle child who disapproves of non-use or on fast rides in the Malverns). In London - never.

I lived there all my life until going all rural a few years ago. It never occured to me to wear one, although they were becoming popular before I left the Smoke.

I've been bowled over by traffic many times in London, fallen unassisted more than once and have a history of treating Euston Road as my own, private Rollerball track. But I've never bumped my bonce.

Even my pro-helmet middle child goes helmetless when we ride together in the Smoke.

I like to think I take my own longevity (relatively) seriously, but for me helmets in urban traffic are just something else to carry when you get there.

I have statistics to prove everything I've written here, but I left them in my other trousers.

Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Anyone who even raises a slightly critical eyebrow to any of the above is a moral coward, a cretin, a buffoon and a scallywag (in the current rather than historical sense).


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## Alun (26 Jun 2012)

Matthew, to go back to your OP.
The cyclist was not wearing a helmet and was not injured!
If the cyclist had been wearing a helmet, how would the situation have been any different?


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## ianrauk (26 Jun 2012)

Alun said:


> Matthew, to go back to your OP.
> The cyclist was not wearing a helmet and was not injured!
> *If the cyclist had been wearing a helmet, how would the situation have been any different?*


 
Duh.... it would have saved his life of course...


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## Boris Bajic (26 Jun 2012)

Many years ago I watched a nature documentary about a feral dog and its various hunting strategies when trying to catch and eat a flightless deseret bird whose speed made it difficult prey to run down.

On one occasion, (unlikely as it may seem) the coyote fired itself from a cannon but due to a (frankly comical) sequence of mishaps, the bird escaped and the coyote was driven headlong into a rockface. The coyote would have been subjected to negative accelaration quite unsurvivable to most humans.

The footage is quite remarkable. I wish I could remember the name of the programme. I believe it was by National Geographic.

To cut a long story short, although the coyote appeared to suffer significant head trauma, it is likely that its life was saved by a helmet. As footage of this incident exists, the veracity of my assertion cannot be brought into question. Fact is fact.

Surely this cannot be ignored. Certainly, when I was a motorcycle courier in London (where helmets were mandatory) we took such proofs very seriously.

We also walked into offices with our helmets on backwards, pretending to be Mekons. Need I say more?


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## Norm (26 Jun 2012)

Meep meep...


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## Alun (26 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> The footage is quite remarkable. I wish I could remember the name of the programme. I believe it was by National Geographic.


You're mistaken, it was "The Life Of Mammals", presented by none other than David Attenborough. It's quite a few years ago now though!


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## Boris Bajic (26 Jun 2012)

Alun said:


> You're mistaken, it was "The Life Of Mammals", presented by none other than David Attenborough. It's quite a few years ago now though!


 
I do not remember a commentary. I may be mistaken.

I do remember some stunning detail in the shots of the reactions of the coyote and the intended prey to their encounters. There was an almost anthropomorphic quality to some of the film of their faces at the moment of triumph or tragedy.

Some of the zoom work was quite excellent too. How the cameraman managed in another sequence to follow the coyote to the very floor of a deep canyon defies logic. On that occasion he was not wearing a helmet, but there was no indication that he received serious injuries.

I confess to suspecting at times that the whole thing was scripted. 

What was this thread about?


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## HovR (26 Jun 2012)

HovR said:


> *Not wanting to start a helmet thread here*, but this annoys me.


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## Red Light (26 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> I believe it was by National Geographic.


 
Surely it was the Acme Company judging by the subtle product placement.


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## Alun (27 Jun 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Some of the zoom work was quite excellent too. How the cameraman managed in another sequence to follow the coyote to the very floor of a deep canyon defies logic. On that occasion he was not wearing a helmet, but there was no indication that he received serious injuries.


A cycle helmet would be of little value in such a situation anyway, as it is not designed for such use. The coyote would be well advised to wear a helmet designed for climbing activities, particularly one with UIAA approval.


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## Boris Bajic (28 Jun 2012)

User said:


> Actually, in law it wasn't the cyclists fault but the driver's. Anyone turning from a major road into a minor road is expected to give way to anyone who is in/on/crossing the road.
> 
> And it was irrelevant whether or not he had previously been cycling on the pavement (although it might be seen as contributory negligence in a civil suit).


 
I do not read books like the Highway Code and have never read the Road Traffic Act. 

So I have no right to write as I do: Nonetheless, I believe the priority as you describe it lies with pedestrians crossing the junction.

This was as it was told to me by a bloke who knew someone I used to buy sheep feed from. You may question the veracity of this source.

I reacll no mention of cycles doing so, although my memory is suspect.


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