# alchohol - how it effects your fitness level



## spudgun (18 Jul 2011)

i've got a 5 day 500 mile ride at the end of the month so i've have no alchohol for last two and a half weeks and feel fantastic. i have found after a weekends cycling (of say 170 miles) not drinking 8 pints of guinness but instead eating a good meal and taking it easy has really helped my recovery. my levelof fitness is pretty high playing a few sports, but for a specific trip like this i have tried to pull out all the stops. 
i guess my interest in this is because as an amateur sportsman, be it golf, cricket cycling etc one would rarely reach a peak level of fitness, because it will be restricted by other things you do such as your job, social life etc etc. so i was wondering how much effect on your fitness drinking socially has. im not what i would term a big drinker but it would be reasonable to assume 8-12 pints total over a friday and saturday night, occasional mid week wine but not that often. it's all a bit of a compromise i suppose. anyone on here cut down or given up the booze and if so why?
cheers!


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## HLaB (18 Jul 2011)

spudgun said:


> i've got a 5 day 500 mile ride at the end of the month so i've have no alchohol for last two and a half weeks and feel fantastic. i have found after a weekends cycling (of say 170 miles) not drinking 8 pints of guinness but instead eating a good meal and taking it easy has really helped my recovery. my levelof fitness is pretty high playing a few sports, but for a specific trip like this i have tried to pull out all the stops.
> i guess my interest in this is because as an amateur sportsman, be it golf, cricket cycling etc one would rarely reach a peak level of fitness, because it will be restricted by other things you do such as your job, social life etc etc. so i was wondering how much effect on your fitness drinking socially has. *im not what i would term a big drinker* but it would be reasonable to assume *8-12 pints total over a friday and saturday night*, occasional mid week wine but not that often. it's all a bit of a compromise i suppose. anyone on here cut down or given up the booze and if so why?
> cheers!



Thats definitely a big drinker to me these days. I used to drink around that sometimes when I lived in Dublin but I never cycled as a sport then, it was just a means of transport. Now I'm taking cycling more seriously I notice the effect of pints the next day and hardly drink unless its a social occasion; I probably have less than 8-12 pints a year now.


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

8-12 pints over two nights sounds a lot. That's upto 24 units per week *if you have nothing else the other days*.

Average healthy max is 21 units/week for a male. Everyone's different though so hard to judge accurately. It's a useful guide at least.

I don't understand the actual medical implications of alcohol on fitness, but it's understood by most that it's not a good thing. People like to mention that a small amount of red wine is good for you, but we're not talking about wine here... or just a small amount either.

Add up your other days' units and see what your weekly total is.


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## jay clock (19 Jul 2011)

i


> m not what i would term a big drinker but it would be reasonable to assume 8-12 pints total over a friday and saturday night


that's a massive amount. I have never drunk much and this year have virtually given up due to Ironman training. Luckily I can easily live without it (unlike cakes and snacks!).

I find one glass of wine the night before a long ride or other training session is noticeable


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

jay clock said:


> Luckily I can easily live without it (unlike cakes and snacks!).


No one can live without cake. Medical fact... probably


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## amaferanga (19 Jul 2011)

I thought that one of the reasons that alcohol is detrimental to performance (especially if you have 8-12 pints over a weekend) is that it affects your sleep - you may get to sleep quicker, but the overall quality of sleep is reduced.

8-12 pints is a lot of empty calories as well.


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## postman (19 Jul 2011)

I also used to drink a fair amount of G but started to cut down after this years Well Man Clinic.Told i was overweight.I also found that i cycled better.So now it's a bit of red wine at the end of the week only when i am not cycling.But last weekend i hit the G in a big way thanks to a meeting of ex workmates nine pints over three days.And thanks to the weather not been out yet this week.


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## BSRU (19 Jul 2011)

Not that I drink much normally but during the late spring/summer months I completely stop drinking.
It means I always get a good nights sleep and any cold/flu/bugs going around have a very minor effect on me, so minor they do not interfere with cycling.

Someone commented on another thread that apparently alcohol inhibits fat burning for 2 or 3 days.


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

BSRU said:


> Someone commented on another thread that apparently alcohol inhibits fat burning for 2 or 3 days.


Blummin'ek. Good reason alone to not drink!


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## spudgun (19 Jul 2011)

thanks for your replies. i would say on an average weekend it would be more like 8 than 12 pints (for the record, before someone posts a link for AA!). two weekends ago, after a very healthy week and no friday night drinking i cycled 90 miles and felt awesome, so i just thought it couldn't be a coincidence. in fact i've felt so good that i'm thinking of becoming a very occasional drinker. i also agree with the comments re quality of sleep. the reason i have found it harder to judge the effect is that with me it isn't really physically noticeable thing ie i am lean (skinny!) 30 yrs old and prob 11 stone. it just effects fitness level and overall feeling of wellbeing i guess.


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

gregsid said:


> 8-12 pints over two nights sounds a lot. That's upto 24 units per week *if you have nothing else the other days*.
> 
> *Average healthy max is 21 units/week for a male*. Everyone's different though so hard to judge accurately. It's a useful guide at least.
> 
> ...



That's not so much an "average healthy maximum" as a government guideline plucked more or less out of thin air...


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## oliglynn (19 Jul 2011)

all this said, I'll still be having a nice pint at the pub stop on my ride later. A mid-ride pint hardly seems to touch the sides!


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## Rhythm Thief (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> That's not so much an "average healthy maximum" as a government guideline plucked more or less out of thin air...



It's more like what I like to call "lunch".


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## Rhythm Thief (19 Jul 2011)

I'm not a heavy drinker (at least, I don't think I am), but I am a pretty frequent one. It's very rare a day goes by where I don't have a beer, usually after work in the mornings. At weekends I sometimes drink two or three pints of an evening, and occasionally I have a proper blowout and sink a load of beer. I don't know why I'm telling you all this, except to say that I really don't care if it inhibits my fat burning or makes me cycle a bit slower ... I like beer, and my life would be poorer without it.


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## Wednesday (19 Jul 2011)

I rarely drink more than 4 units in a session and regularly go for months without any booze. I'm still rubbish though .


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## e-rider (19 Jul 2011)

If I drink more than 6 pints the night before a long (80+ mile) ride and can notice the difference. Mainly because I get cramp and bonk after 50 miles!

I've never noticed a couple of pints the night before making a difference though - although I suspect it does. Drinking mid-ride certainly slows me down; or perhaps I just cycle further to get home.


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> That's not so much an "average healthy maximum" as a government guideline plucked more or less out of thin air...


But what other guidline do we have?


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

gregsid said:


> But what other guidline do we have?



Other than "as much as I like, because I'm a grown-up"? I don't know - it will depend on your priorities, your point of view and whether you feel a guideline is necessary, but it's fair to say that a guideline based on nothing-very-explicit-or-well-thought-out is not worth the label it's printed on.


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## yello (19 Jul 2011)

My club mates assure me that red wine is good for you, in moderation I presume.

I used to drink more in my youth (like many many people) but have pretty much stopped now. I'll go weeks between drinks but then maybe have 1/2 bottle of wine... but I really notice the effects of that the following day. Not headachey or sick, just run down. Alcohol's a toxin isn't it? The body really doesn't want that stuff at all, despite what the head says! That said, I do like the occasional single malt. A bottle lasts me around 4 or 5 months so you see it very much is 'occasional'.


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

Here's a handy page on "recommended maximum intake (or 'safe limits') of alcohol"


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> My club mates assure me that red wine is good for you, in moderation I presume.
> 
> I used to drink more in my youth (like many many people) but have pretty much stopped now. I'll go weeks between drinks but then maybe have 1/2 bottle of wine... but I really notice the effects of that the following day. Not headachey or sick, just run down. Alcohol's a toxin isn't it?* The body really doesn't want that stuff at all*, despite what the head says! That said, I do like the occasional single malt. A bottle lasts me around 4 or 5 months so you see it very much is 'occasional'.



I can assure you that the body sometimes wants it very badly. "Toxin" in this context is one of those woolly words used by people like Gillian McKeith. In another context, it's a vital component of a health drink...


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## BSRU (19 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> My club mates assure me that red wine is good for you, in moderation I presume.
> 
> I used to drink more in my youth (like many many people) but have pretty much stopped now. I'll go weeks between drinks but then maybe have 1/2 bottle of wine... but I really notice the effects of that the following day. Not headachey or sick, just run down. Alcohol's a toxin isn't it? The body really doesn't want that stuff at all, despite what the head says! That said, I do like the occasional single malt. A bottle lasts me around 4 or 5 months so you see it very much is 'occasional'.



A small amount, a glass of wine, everyday is supposed to be good for your heart.


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## Andrew_P (19 Jul 2011)

All I ca nsay is that my 15 mile commute is the best hangover cure ever - FACT!


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> but it's fair to say that a guideline based on nothing-very-explicit-or-well-thought-out is not worth the label it's printed on.


Is that mere opinion or is that a researched conclusion? (There's no right or wrong answer)

Some people simply don't know what is a safe amount and at least there is that _guidline_ (as vague or disputable as some may take that) for them to refer to.

You are indeed grown up and can make your own choices. The guidline is not a legal limit after all...


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

BSRU said:


> A small amount, a glass of wine, everyday is supposed to be good for your heart.


Well I did mention in an earlier post.
"People like to mention that a small amount of red wine is good for you, but we're not talking about wine here... or just a small amount either."


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## MontyVeda (19 Jul 2011)

> BSRU, on 19 July 2011 - 11:20:27, said: A small amount, a glass of wine, everyday is supposed to be good for your heart.





I thought it was acouple of glasses of wine a week is supposed to be good for your heart. The 21 or 25 'units' per week was just the average whenever they did the study... as far as i understand it


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## MontyVeda (19 Jul 2011)

LOCO said:


> All I ca nsay is that my 15 mile commute is the best hangover cure ever - FACT!



my old 5 mile ride into work at 6am on a saturday morning after playing dominoes the previous night, and celebrating or comiserating into the early hours is testament to that.

not sure if my current 1/2 mile commute will have any affect though


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

gregsid said:


> *Is that mere opinion or is that a researched conclusion? (There's no right or wrong answer)*
> 
> Some people simply don't know what is a safe amount and at least there is that _guidline_ (as vague or disputable as some may take that) for them to refer to.
> 
> You are indeed grown up and can make your own choices. The guidline is not a legal limit after all...



It's neither - it's an argument. Drink isn't just something that is either "good" for you or "bad" for you - it's a practice and a culture. The thread is about fitness levels, and it looks from reading the contributions as if people have a fairly good idea about how their own cycling performance and fitness goals seem to be affected by particular patterns or levels of consumption. But it doesn't really have much to do with safety, health in the broader sense, enjoyment of cycling, or benefits or harms or particular kinds. It's quite conceivable that (in the name of fitness/performance) someone will recommend that it's good for me to drink less wine/beer and more strange blue things with fructose/glucose syrup in them. Personally, I would be more inclined to issue guidelines about the consumption of the latter, but there you are - the goverment doesn't seem to trouble itself too much about those.


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## Dan B (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> . It's quite conceivable that (in the name of fitness/performance) someone will recommend that it's good for me to drink less wine/beer and more _strange blue things with fructose/glucose syrup in them_.


Alcopops?


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## e-rider (19 Jul 2011)

There are many scientifically proven correlations between certain illnesses and quantity of booze consumed. So, the more booze you consume the more liekly you are to develop certain illnesses


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

Dan B said:


> Alcopops?





_Absolutely _no more than 14 bottles of WKD on an 80-miler.


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> It's neither - it's an argument.


I wasn't arguing


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

gregsid said:


> I wasn't arguing



In the sense of making an argument, not of having a row...


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## gregsid (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> In the sense of making an argument, not of having a row...


Okay matey - that's cool


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## yello (19 Jul 2011)

theclaud said:


> I can assure you that the body sometimes wants it very badly.



Would you care to expand on that please? When does the body want alcohol? And I'm not meaning addiction.


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## theclaud (19 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> Would you care to expand on that please? When does the body want alcohol? And I'm not meaning addiction.



I'm talking about desire.


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## threebikesmcginty (19 Jul 2011)

I was reading an interview with Henry Blofeld (Blowers) on the weekend, he said 'I drink 2 bottles of red wine every day and have done most of my life and I'm 72'. Top man, don't know if he's much of a cyclist though


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## ttcycle (19 Jul 2011)

Fundamentally, when you cut down or cut out alcohol, it will give you a bench mark to measure your own fitness from. As we're all individuals in what we cycle for and our fitness levels etc then we can only talk from a certain viewpoint.

I used to drink a fair amount, I found when I was training a few years ago that I became quite sensitive to alcohol, I'd have one drink and it would make my mood nosedive, affected my sleep and generally I felt a bit more sluggish on the bike. I also found that I really disliked junk food, carbonated drinks with loads of sugar and chips as they had the same effect on making me more sluggish. I haven't been much of a drinker since then, I will very occasionally have a drink but don't feel the need to much.

The thing is when you're training for a sport, your life can sometimes become just about training and getting optimal results. You eat loads of the right things, sleep well and work towards that goal. There's a slight obsession/dedication there.

Enjoy it whether you choose to drink or not!


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## BSRU (19 Jul 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> I thought it was acouple of glasses of wine a week is supposed to be good for your heart. The 21 or 25 'units' per week was just the average whenever they did the study... as far as i understand it



Depends how big your glass of wine is, I have seen some glasses that easily take half a bottle of wine or vodka .

The problem with the weekly average is most people consume their weekly average on Friday and/or Saturday night. Drinking more than 4 units in one session would make you a binge drinker, a can of special brew is 4.5 units.

Personally not buying alcohol during the summer makes it easier to justify buying more bike gear with my better half .


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## monnet (19 Jul 2011)

I think the key benefits to reducing alcohol intake are the improved quality of sleep and also the effect booze has on your hydration levels. In winter a quite like the odd night with a few pints but in summer when the cycling is much more serious I really cut down, although a glass of wine/ a beer the night before makes little difference. It's just stopping there that can be difficult. With training rides on a Sunday morning through the winter and races on Sundays in summer I find I hardly touch a drop on Saturday night these days. And as I get older I have to be careful on firday night too - those hangovers seem to drag on forever these days!


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## Nebulous (19 Jul 2011)

I've always had a fairly high tolerance to alcohol and drank a lot. As I got older I tended to still drink quite a lot at a time, but do it much less frequently - maybe one blowout every 2 months. Over the last year I've lost a lot of weight, started cycling seriously, and I'm probably fitter than I've ever been. 

I've been really surprised how much alcohol affects me now as a result, and the effects really feel quite unpleasant. I get drunk faster, recover slower, and notice the impact on my body more than ever. I notice all sorts of effects, including a resting heart rate that goes up about 5 beats the next day and a training session feels rubbish. It has reached a point that I tend to avoid it altogether or if I do go out I will alternate an alcoholic drink and a soft drink to reduce my intake. I'm also one of the first people to want to go home, where before I was almost always the last, so I guess I'm pretty much opting out of drinking. 

There has been a huge increase in drinking in this country over the last 40-50 years and it is really taking its toll in health terms. Cirrhosis, mental health problems and alcohol related cancers are all increasing, as are days lost to sickness, family breakdowns, alcohol related violence, financial problems etc. All-in-all it's not a pretty picture, but many people don't want to hear it.


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## Banjo (19 Jul 2011)

A quick 35 miler tonight lkeft me a bit wired so winding down with a bottle of Merlot at the moment. Probably wont drink it all but might if the mood takes me.

Almost anything drunk smoked or eaten to excess is unhealthy.The facts and stattistics are widely known/available. 

Each adult needs to make their own compromises in life. This really is lovely Merlot by the way .


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## Holy Warrior (20 Jul 2011)

Wierdly these past three weeks where i've dusted down my bike again has seen me completely abstain. As a student this is quite an achievement! It's not because I think that I should if i want to be healthier, I just don't feel like having one. Whether that is down to being more active and feeling healthier, and my body knows that if I drink i'll feel crappy again I don't know. The body is a powerful tool with a mind of its own, listen to it


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## yello (20 Jul 2011)

There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption, says Prof David Nutt in The Guardian

I liked that article, as I like people to make informed decisions. Know thine enemy sort of thing. Nobody is saying don't do it, more know what you do and the consequences of it.

I shall not be stopping my occasional single malt but I'm under no illusions as to the damage that alcohol could do.

Rather surprised by some of the comments in reply to the article though. I thought there'd be a better level of understanding and engagement with the article than some there demonstrated. It's me that's the fool, believing some kind of pre-conceived notion of Guardian readers!


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## Dan B (20 Jul 2011)

I'm sure there's no such thing as a "safe level" of urban nanoparticles either, but that's not going to stop me cycling in traffic. When you do the risk/reward assessment there are other things than just "increased length of life" to account for under the second heading.


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## yello (20 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> I thought there'd be a better level of understanding and engagement with the article than some there demonstrated.



That's an unfair comment yello, even if I do say so myself! The majority of the comments do illustrate sensible debate... whatever that might be!

Dan B - you are right imo. Health is just one aspect of our lives. As is risk. I'd like to think we all take a balanced approach. That being dependant on the individuals' weightings of the many and various aspects; some like to play safe, others are thrill seekers.

I like attempts to take issues head on. That is, don't deny the 'damage' (depending on how you determine 'damage') of that beer, cake, fry up, ciggie, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc) Acknowledge and accept it as a possible (thought perhaps not inevitable) occurrence. Don't let it necessarily deter you but don't pretend it's not there either.


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## Cris S (20 Jul 2011)

Hello

Have look at this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/games/boozecalculator/


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## Mad at urage (20 Jul 2011)

tundragumski said:


> There are many scientifically proven correlations between certain illnesses and quantity of booze consumed. So, the more booze you consume the more liekly you are to develop certain illnesses



You understand the difference between correlation and causation, yes? Only it doesn't seem so from the second sentence.


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## spudgun (20 Jul 2011)

ok here's the classic scenario that this week presents to me... (i go on my cycle trip next tuesday)... tomorrow = mum's 60th so i'll be at that celebration although will most probably drive (needless to add, not drink!). Friday night out to dinner with 7 good friends, Sat night out to dinner with 12 of my girlfriends mates. it's that kind of scenario i'm referring to really. i'd happily not go out drinking, but it's fun to socialise and when i'm out i'd rather drink a nice bottle of wine than drink endless soft drinks. it tastes nicer and is more fun. however, i'm also trying to get fit and the fitter i am and the less i drink, the less i then want to drink, the lower my tolerance to alchohol (and vice versa when i've had a lot of socialising). hopefully i'll be able to strike the right balance!!


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## Banjo (21 Jul 2011)

Cris S said:


> Hello
> 
> Have look at this.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk...oozecalculator/



Interesting to see graphically on that site what the food calorie equivalent is.

eg I entered 5 glasses of wine which is about half a mans weekly recommended limit .That equates to a slice of pizza, a burger, an onion bahji and 2 jaffa cakes.

If I eat all that in the evening after my main meal I would feel like a pig and probably ill from the over eating yet after 5 glasses of wine I feel great.
Sneaky calories.


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## spudgun (21 Jul 2011)

is anyone else a bit suspicious of the calorie counter things? lets say you drink a bottle of wine which i imagine is 5 small glasses (ish) now this may be the calorie equivalent of a burger a pizza etc etc but the fact is you aren't eating a burger and a pizza you are drinking a bottle of wine! so it must be totally different. therefore i don't really worry about the calories in drinks - i know i burn as many calories as i take in whatever i drink because i do loads of excercise. i just don't know to what extent i therefore fall short of my optimum fitness level as a result. that was very badly explained :-(


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## Holy Warrior (21 Jul 2011)

Take alook at this article in Cyling Active, answers a lot of questions whilst still keeping in touch with the average rider.



http://www.cyclingactive.com/fitness/fitness-drink-aware



edit: Might help if I actually posted the link


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## Becs (21 Jul 2011)

I find cycling negatively effects my drinking fitness - after 60 miles I'm a complete lightweight!


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## BSRU (21 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> I find cycling negatively effects my drinking fitness - after 60 miles I'm a complete lightweight!



Or you could say it saves you a fortune as you get drunk faster, similar to when you first discovered alcohol.


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## Becs (21 Jul 2011)

BSRU said:


> Or you could say it saves you a fortune as you get drunk faster, similar to when you first discovered alcohol.




I remember it fondly, 2 Archers and lemonade and a Hooch would last me all evening when I was 15!


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## Fiona N (21 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption, says Prof David Nutt in The Guardian
> 
> 
> Rather surprised by some of the comments in reply to the article though. *I thought there'd be a better level of understanding and engagement with the article than some there demonstrated. It's me that's the fool, believing some kind of pre-conceived notion of Guardian readers!*



OMG you have to laugh sometimes at the level of ignorance and stupidity demonstrated by comments posters on the Guardian's Comment is Free - it seems to bring out the Mail readers or something  Half the time you realise they haven't read the article, it's just knee-jerk posting. I always wonder, if it's like that on the Guardian C-i-F, what's it like on some of the less liberal newspaper websites?


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## Nebulous (21 Jul 2011)

Holy Warrior said:


> Take alook at this article in Cyling Active, answers a lot of questions whilst still keeping in touch with the average rider.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really like that article. I found it well written and balanced. I probably sit somewhere between the triathlete and the club cyclist (in terms of my attitude to drink!)


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## yello (21 Jul 2011)

Nebulous said:


> I really like that article. I found it well written and balanced.



It is isn't it. I actually wrote to Cycling Active at the time to praise the article. First time I've ever done such a thing, that's how impressed I was! I liked how 'unpreachy' it was too.


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## Dreamcatcher (21 Jul 2011)

jay clock said:


> ithat's a massive amount. I have never drunk much and this year have virtually given up due to Ironman training. Luckily I can easily live without it (unlike cakes and snacks!).
> 
> I find one glass of wine the night before a long ride or other training session is noticeable




That is not massive at all, I used to drink 6-8 pints per night 7 days a week. Still manage to keep my weight at around 12 st and went fell walking at weekend. I guess everyone is different.


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