# Annoyed by cyclists from local club



## KingstonBiker (17 Apr 2011)

Today I set out on a solo 40 mile ride. Not long in to my journey I hit a set of traffic lights which changed to red as I approached them. As I slowed down to stop I received shouts of abuse from behind me from two cyclists. They shouted "what are you f...... doing" and "get out of my way". They were unhappy I was blocking their path so they could not go straight through the red light. Being polite I moved slightly to the left and they both went straight through the red light.

What really annoyed me was that they were both members of a well known Kingston cycling club (which I'm thinking of joining).

It was clear to me that they were part of a larger pack of around a dozen riders, the others had made it through the lights while it was still green, and they wanted to keep up with the pack. However, the lights were on red for a good 10-15 seconds before they went through them.


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## ianrauk (17 Apr 2011)

cocks!


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## frank9755 (17 Apr 2011)

KingstonBiker said:


> Today I set out on a solo 40 mile ride. Not long in to my journey I hit a set of traffic lights which changed to red as I approached them. As I slowed down to stop I received shouts of abuse from behind me from two cyclists. They shouted "what are you f...... doing" and "get out of my way". They were unhappy I was blocking their path so they could not go straight through the red light. Being polite I moved slightly to the left and they both went straight through the red light.
> 
> What really annoyed me was that they were both members of a well known Kingston cycling club (which I'm thinking of joining).
> 
> It was clear to me that they were part of a larger pack of around a dozen riders, the others had made it through the lights while it was still green, and they wanted to keep up with the pack. However, the lights were on red for a good 10-15 seconds before they went through them.



If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.


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## HLaB (17 Apr 2011)

fuds!


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## mickle (17 Apr 2011)

Definitely worth a letter. Idiots.


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## Moby Jones (17 Apr 2011)

I wouldn't have moved, sound like tosses, plain and simple.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## Jezston (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.



+1


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## gbs (18 Apr 2011)

All very regrettable but the agressive behaviour is no doubt attributable to misplaced enthusiam fuelled by adrenaline; sooner or later they will learn the lesson.

You might care to consider Clarencourt CC (Ewell) or SWRC (Cobham). Both are successful but smaller clubs with a little more grey hair but not slouches.


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## asterix (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.



+1


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## sparty69 (18 Apr 2011)

No doubt they will be the kind of cyclists who then moan about the standard of driving on the roads!!, idiots.


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## ACS (18 Apr 2011)

asterix said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary
> 
> +1



Agree with this.


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## funnymummy (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.


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## PK99 (18 Apr 2011)

gbs said:


> You might care to consider *Clarencourt CC (Ewell)* or SWRC (Cobham). Both are successful but smaller clubs with a little more grey hair but not slouches.



Clarencourt is my club. http://www.clarencourt.com/

Saturday has two outings: Sportive training ride, 50/60 hilly miles at a good pace in the Surrey hills or to Ashdown Forest, and a much more leisurely 30 mile pootle.

Sunday has a traditional "Club run" with once a month an MTB trail ride with a guy who is a human GPS for the whole of Surrey.

As you say, a Grey Haired club but the sportive group are younger.


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## Davidc (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.



Agree totally


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Apr 2011)

Inhabitants of Bellendia. Write to the secretary as suggested.


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## HLaB (18 Apr 2011)

The worst I've seen on a club run was when we were in a chaingang and some walkers/joggers approached us on a road without pavements. They were naturally on the our side of the road coming towards us and nearly everybody got by no problem but one idiot in our pack started to have a go at them, 'get aff the ffing road, etc' (now where have we heard that before  ) he quickly got told to mind his language.


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## Garz (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> If you are annoyed, I suggest you drop a line to the club secretary.


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## StuartG (18 Apr 2011)

Just to say if you do get involved in a peloton as the lights change to red then there is an understanding amongst club members (at least in our non-Kingston Club) that the first person who decides to stop should shout 'stopping' well in advance and a few seconds before braking so there is no danger of a pile-up. Otherwise it is considered safest to carry through. That can mean that some can clip the first few seconds of a red. In a way a peloton acts as a single vehicle where, to use an anology, the lorry trailer will often be going through on red whilst the first part was on a legitimate green or a dodgy amber.

(I'm not condoning it - just saying how some people see it).


Of course if they were detached then they should certainly stop - although the temptation not to get more detached might get the better of them.

Hence if you get caught get in a crowd of club cyclists or any bunch of cyclists - shouting 'stopping' when you do is always a good idea. Might have got them to automatically brake & stop.


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## ianrauk (18 Apr 2011)

Some clubs can be very poor about this type of thing.
For example, the London Dynamo think they own Richmond Park on a Saturday morning. Woe-betide if anyone is in the way of a chain gang. Utter arses they can be.


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## neil earley (18 Apr 2011)

in car on sunday there was a group of cyclists on a busy dual carriagway obviously racing each other [ THEY WERE MOSTLY 3 ABREAST OF EACH OTHER!!} a car went to overtake them then a cyclist pulled out didnt check behind [ NO LIFESAVER!!!} the car narrowly missed him by inches!! boy was he lucky, the car had pulled in the next layby and was obviously going to confront them.


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## GrasB (18 Apr 2011)

StuartG said:


> Just to say if you do get involved in a peloton as the lights change to red then there is an understanding amongst club members (at least in our non-Kingston Club) that the first person who decides to stop should shout 'stopping' well in advance and a few seconds before braking so there is no danger of a pile-up. Otherwise it is considered safest to carry through. That can mean that some can clip the first few seconds of a red. In a way a peloton acts as a single vehicle where, to use an anology, the lorry trailer will often be going through on red whilst the first part was on a legitimate green or a dodgy amber.


+1 once got caught up in an absolute mellay of cyclists*, the only way the group could safely pull through a set of traffic lights was just to through as a single large group. For anyone to try & stop for the lights would have required a lot of coordination in a decidedly disorganised group of riders with 2 large, thoroughly mixed & fragmented groups of riders as a single bunch.


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## MacB (18 Apr 2011)

GrasB said:


> +1 once got caught up in an absolute mellay of cyclists*, the only way the group could safely pull through a set of traffic lights was just to through as a single large group. For anyone to try & *stop for the lights would have required a lot of coordination* in a decidedly disorganised group of riders with 2 large, thoroughly mixed & fragmented groups of riders as a single bunch.



Sorry GB but that's just a really crap excuse, if they're riding on the road then they're aware of the possibilites of traffic lights, road furniture and other road users including slower cyclists. If they make a mistake that's fair enough, if they prioritise their chaingang/speed over the legitimate interests of others, and the law of the land, then they are cocks.


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## Chris S (18 Apr 2011)

Good thing you found out what they were like before you joined.


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## frank9755 (18 Apr 2011)

neil earley said:


> in car on sunday there was a group of cyclists on a busy dual carriagway obviously racing each other [ THEY WERE MOSTLY 3 ABREAST OF EACH OTHER!!} a car went to overtake them then a cyclist pulled out didnt check behind [ NO LIFESAVER!!!} the car narrowly missed him by inches!! boy was he lucky, the car had pulled in the next layby and was obviously going to confront them.



While this may be a troll and is clearly off topic, I'll reply just the once!
The car should have left plenty of room (5 feet) and also anticipated the potential hazard. 
If you think about it, there's no reason why his overtake has priority over that of the cyclist who you say pulled out!


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## kishin (18 Apr 2011)

MacB said:


> Sorry GB but that's just a really crap excuse, if they're riding on the road then they're aware of the possibilites of traffic lights, road furniture and other road users including slower cyclists. If they make a mistake that's fair enough, if they prioritise their chaingang/speed over the legitimate interests of others, and the law of the land, then they are cocks.


+1 if you can't follow the rules of the road, then you shouldn't be on the road no matter what mode of transport you use.


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## fossyant (18 Apr 2011)

The two guys should have got a bit fitter then...shouldn't have been hanging off the back of a bunch. I assume the bunch had cleared the lights well before.


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## Night Train (18 Apr 2011)

These are the sort of cyclist I find really annoying. 

Just because a group of people are out with their club on a run doesn't mean that the laws and rules of the road don't count. They are no more 'one vehicle then, say, a funeral convoy or a group of mates out in their cars would be.

Shouting out 'stopping' is a bit daft too as each person should be prepared to stop and leave a sufficient gap to stop safely. Bike generally don't have brake lights and indicators but the riders do have arm signals they can use.

Last year I was driving along a narrow single carriageway with only a single lane each way. The road was national speed limit. Coming towards me were a group of cyclists in a pack riding fast and three abreast. I slowed from 60 to 50mph and moved over a little to reduce wind draft.
As we got closer it suddently became four abreast and then just before we passed it became 5 abreast with the fifth one frantically trying to pass the others and on the wrong side coming at me causing me to have to brake hard and swerve off the edge of the tarmac to avoid him.

Nothing against them going for a fun ride or a 'race' but attemting suicide with my car is another matter.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Apr 2011)

+1


Moby Jones said:


> I wouldn't have moved, sound like tosses, plain and simple.


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Apr 2011)

+1


MacB said:


> Sorry GB but that's just a really crap excuse, if they're riding on the road then they're aware of the possibilites of traffic lights, road furniture and other road users including slower cyclists. If they make a mistake that's fair enough, if they prioritise their chaingang/speed over the legitimate interests of others, and the law of the land, then they are cocks.


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## thelawnet (18 Apr 2011)

GrasB said:


> +1 once got caught up in an absolute mellay of cyclists*, the only way the group could safely pull through a set of traffic lights was just to through as a single large group. For anyone to try & stop for the lights would have required a lot of coordination in a decidedly disorganised group of riders with 2 large, thoroughly mixed & fragmented groups of riders as a single bunch.




If I go out with the CTC group it's common for half the group to make it through the lights and the over half not. So we pull over a little way along the road at a safe stopping point and regroup.


It basically amounts to 'I want to go as fast possible so I will ignore the rules of the road' to jump red lights with this excuse.


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## suecsi (18 Apr 2011)

Unfortunately Kingston is absolutely chock full at weekends, especially in nice weather, of what our petrol headed compatriots would refer to as lycra louts - there are some lovely bikes and some flashy kit, but it sounds like there are also a few attitude issues.


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## her_welshness (18 Apr 2011)

Let's get this straight - these are w*nkers on bicycles, not cyclists. They are at the ignorant fundamentalist edge of our sphere and as such should not be tolerated.

I understand the mentality of these people only too well but we should never condone cycling through red lights so that they keep in with the rest of the pack - its absurd. We all know how easy it is in catching up with other folk.

A strongly worded e-mail to their club secretary will hopefully get an overall bollocking from them to the whole group and then the message will get across.


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## Dan B (18 Apr 2011)

I agree they're w*nkers on bicycles, but they're still cyclists just as much as w*nkers in cars are motorists...


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## MacB (18 Apr 2011)

Dan B said:


> I agree they're w*nkers on bicycles, but they're still cyclists just as much as w*nkers in cars are motorists...



But surely there's a higher degree of skill involved in 'knocking one out' while on a bike than while sat in a car?


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## asterix (18 Apr 2011)

Cycling clubs for adults in Kingston-upon-Thames:


http://www.kingstonwheelers.co.uk/

and Kingston Phoenix : http://www.aqvm78.dsl.pipex.com/KPRC/

Which one is innocent of the offence?


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## Coco (18 Apr 2011)

MacB said:


> But surely there's a higher degree of skill involved in 'knocking one out' while on a bike than while sat in a car?




  
Not at the speed I go at


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## 400bhp (18 Apr 2011)

thelawnet said:


> If I go out with the CTC group it's common for half the group to make it through the lights and the over half not. So we pull over a little way along the road at a safe stopping point and regroup.
> 
> 
> It basically amounts to 'I want to go as fast possible so I will ignore the rules of the road' to jump red lights with this excuse.



Exactly - not rocket science is it.

Perhaps I should start motor racing on the streets at weekends instead of on an enclosed race track.


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## david k (18 Apr 2011)

very dangerous, problem is a car may teach them a lesson, its all too late then!


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## Philk (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> While this may be a troll and is clearly off topic, I'll reply just the once!
> The car should have left plenty of room (5 feet) and also anticipated the potential hazard.
> If you think about it, there's no reason why his overtake has priority over that of the cyclist who you say pulled out!



Sorry Frank, I disagree, as per highway code the overtaking vehicle has priority.section 162.
The car should have left plenty of room ,agreed, but five feet, do you give other cars on the road 5 feet when overtaking? see section 163 below.
There is a reason why you must look over your shoulder when getting ready to overtake,its not called a life saver for nothing. see 212 below.
Its about being a responsible road user and trying to preserve your life, if you ride like an idiot its only a matter of time.


*The Highway Code - Overtaking (162-169)*

*162 - Before overtaking you should make sure*

the road is sufficiently clear ahead
road users are not beginning to overtake you
there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

*163*
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)


*212*
When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.


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## thelawnet (18 Apr 2011)

You forget rule 213:


*213*
Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.




As for how much room you would give a car, a road lane is about 11 feet wide, a car is about 6 foot - if you are going fully into the oncoming carriageway then it's going to about 5-6 feet

(Bad cycling not withstanding.)


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## Mad at urage (18 Apr 2011)

Not Frank, but since most cars are over 5ft wide then yes, when overtaking another car I will give it rather more than 5ft of room! The Highway Code has a Helpful Picture to illustrate this idea when overtaking a cyclist, and the cyclist is being given "as much room as ... a car" i.e. more than 5ft.


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## ComedyPilot (18 Apr 2011)

Name and shame them via the club IMO. State the day, time and location and they will know who it was.

Total cocks.


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## Zoiders (18 Apr 2011)

Sound like the kind of over agressive over eager knobbers that almost all sports have at the fringes, they never made it as pro's so it becomes everyones else's falut for holding them back - how dare you get in their way? don't you know they once almost got selected for the Olympics?

Shouty dads at kids saturday football, 30 something surfers who think it's cool to square up to teenagers on Fistral beach, paintballers who think it really is war - the world is full of these idiots.


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## HLaB (18 Apr 2011)

MacB said:


> Sorry GB but that's just a really crap excuse, if they're riding on the road then they're aware of the possibilites of traffic lights, road furniture and other road users including slower cyclists. If they make a mistake that's fair enough, if they prioritise their chaingang/speed over the legitimate interests of others, and the law of the land, then they are cocks.



+1 I know it does take co'ordination when riding in a group but most riders make adjustment to allow for it when riding through that environment; on our rides there's usually also the shout from an experienced member to stay in pairs through town. I did have one who nearly came into the back of me (bounced of the back of my wheel and gave me a tirade of abuse) when the girl next to me stopped as is right to do at a red light she shouted, I shouted, she braked slightly harder and nobody came into back of her. I felt sorry for the poor guy who brushed off the back of me and ended up with a badly staved finger but there was no way I was cycling into the side of a car, that would have hurt me more and might have hurt him more too


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## jay clock (18 Apr 2011)

I have emailed to

info@kingstonwheelers.com

lisa@kprc.org.uk


Complaint about rude and poor cycling from Kingston cyclists
See here. http://www.cyclechat.net/topic/81605-annoyed-by-cyclists-from-local-club/

One of the local clubs is alleged to have some rude cyclists who don’t observe the traffic lights. If so not, a good advertisement for us as a whole.


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## asterix (18 Apr 2011)

Well done!


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## ComedyPilot (18 Apr 2011)

+1 well done


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## Arch (18 Apr 2011)

Night Train said:


> Shouting out 'stopping' is a bit daft too as each person should be prepared to stop and leave a sufficient gap to stop safely. Bike generally don't have brake lights and indicators but the riders do have arm signals they can use.



It's not daft, it's just basic cycling manners in a group, just like signalling turns or calling out or pointing out road defects or glass etc. Apart from warning those behind you, it lets those ahead know that they'll lose the back end if they carry on regardless. And arm signals are all very well, but if you need to stop (you may have a sudden mechanical, or cramp or something, nothing to do with red lights), it's safer to have both hands on the brakes.... A good group will anticipate the possibilty of lights changing, and the front few will check behind to see that the tail gets through, or whether they need to ease off and let them catch up. At least they will on social rides, the only kind I care about.


I quite agree that the riders in the OP are cocks, as are any group who act like they own the road and ignore the rules.


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## Slaav (18 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> While this may be a troll and is clearly off topic, I'll reply just the once!
> The car should have left plenty of room (5 feet) and also anticipated the potential hazard.
> If you think about it, there's no reason why his overtake has priority over that of the cyclist who you say pulled out!



I am sorry but I cannot believe that you typed that last bit! I am new on here so don't want to be confrontational so please go easy on me if you bother to reply but you cannot really be serious?

Are you saying that if I am in the midst of an overtake, or have started my maneuver, then the overtakee (?) has as much right to now proceed to instigate an overtake as I did and do? Think it through please?

And I think my thoughts are backed up on the next page or so by the quotes from the Highway Code  

I have ridden a motorbike in and out of London for many years. I learned to ride in London. 'Lifesaver' really does get called that for a very good reason!! Trust me....

Anyway - hope no offence caused?


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## jay clock (18 Apr 2011)

Reply from Lisa Colombo of Kinston Phoenix. If/when I get a reply from the other one I will put it up here too
_
Thanks for the heads-up about this.

I am dismayed to read this about any group of cyclists, sincerely hope that it wasn't any of ours and can only apologise if I am wrong.
But being too small a club to have a group of the size described out yesterday - particularly as a third of the usual Sunday riding group were out marshalling yesterday morning - I find it hard to believe that it could be our lot.

That said, I have written this post: http://kingstonphoenix.freeforums.org/inexcusable-road-behaviour-t136.html
on our club forum because it is not behaviour that we would wish to condone or encourage - and that's just the red-light jumping. Swearing at someone for legally and properly stopping at the lights in front of you is even more stupid and inexcusable.

Obviously as the original poster on your thread was reluctant to actually name and shame - he may even have assumed that there is only the one Kingston Club - then we get tarred with the same brush.

Regards,
Lisa_


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## neil earley (18 Apr 2011)

sorry Frank 9755 totally disagree with you if you ride in a group and choose to overtake cyclists in front who are riding 3 abreast you should do a lifesaver as well as check your mirror if fitted ! As a car driver is commited to the overtake allready , surely a quick glance over the shoulder is more appropriate than getting ahead of the bunch , forgot to ad said cyclist was wearing earphones in IE i pod etc think he was mad to be honest! enough accident to cyclists have happened this year allready.


frank9755 said:


> While this may be a troll and is clearly off topic, I'll reply just the once!
> The car should have left plenty of room (5 feet) and also anticipated the potential hazard.
> If you think about it, there's no reason why his overtake has priority over that of the cyclist who you say pulled out!


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## henshaw11 (18 Apr 2011)

Perhaps a little clarification's needed - were they generally taking the whole lane as a group, and did the guy that pulled out stay in that lane, or did he move into the next lane out ?


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## StuartG (18 Apr 2011)

jay clock said:


> Reply from Lisa Colombo of Kinston Phoenix.


I saw some Kingston Phoenix at Hensfold Lakes Sunday morning for tea & cake. Didn't look like RLJers.


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## PK99 (18 Apr 2011)

ianrauk said:


> Some clubs can be very poor about this type of thing.
> For example, the London Dynamo think they own Richmond Park on a Saturday morning. Woe-betide if anyone is in the way of a chain gang. Utter arses they can be.



Yes and no!

The fast chain gangs who sweep past me do behave as you say, the slower ones which creep past are much more considerate


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## neil earley (19 Apr 2011)

hi henshaw 11 , this particular dual carriagway is very busy cars well exceeding 70 mph the car was overtaking and probably should have anticipated that a cyclist may try to overtake! but think the cyclist who pulled out should give a lifesaver as a matter of course especially on a busy road, not saying that you shouldnt listen to I pods etc but personally think its dangerous when you cycle to some extent as you cannot hear approaching traffic , ps the car had to use the fast lane as the bunch of cyclist were riding 3 abreast usin all of the width of the lane hope that clarifies the situation, think he was very fortuanate not to be hit by the car who did give a loud blast on his horn!!


henshaw11 said:


> Perhaps a little clarification's needed - were they generally taking the whole lane as a group, and did the guy that pulled out stay in that lane, or did he move into the next lane out ?


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## evilclive (19 Apr 2011)

neil earley said:


> hi henshaw 11 , this particular dual carriagway is very busy cars well exceeding 70 mph the car was overtaking and probably should have anticipated that a cyclist may try to overtake! but think the cyclist who pulled out should give a lifesaver as a matter of course especially on a busy road, not saying that you shouldnt listen to I pods etc but personally think its dangerous when you cycle to some extent as you cannot hear approaching traffic , ps the car had to use the fast lane as the bunch of cyclist were riding 3 abreast usin all of the width of the lane hope that clarifies the situation, think he was very fortuanate not to be hit by the car who did give a loud blast on his horn!!



Surely the car driver should have used the outside lane no matter how many abreast the cyclists were?

Did the extra cyclist cross into L2 or was he still on the left of the dotted line?


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## KingstonBiker (19 Apr 2011)

jay clock said:


> I have emailed to
> 
> info@kingstonwheelers.com
> 
> ...



I was going to email the club myself but I see you have done it already.


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## KingstonBiker (19 Apr 2011)

jay clock said:


> Reply from Lisa Colombo of Kinston Phoenix. If/when I get a reply from the other one I will put it up here too
> _
> Thanks for the heads-up about this.
> 
> ...



Very impressive and rapid response. I'm glad to say the two cyclists (1 male, 1 female) were not part of Kingston Phoenix. Therefore the club in question was the Wheelers. There were loads of them around on Sunday and all the others I encountered were perfectly pleasant.

We all make little mistakes sometimes. I'm prepared to believe that they made a mistake in the heat of the moment and probably will do the right thing next time.


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## neil earley (19 Apr 2011)

Hi the cyclist was on the white lane markers dividing the 2 lanes so dangerously close I WOULD SAY


evilclive said:


> Surely the car driver should have used the outside lane no matter how many abreast the cyclists were?
> 
> Did the extra cyclist cross into L2 or was he still on the left of the dotted line?


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## asterix (20 Apr 2011)

KingstonBiker said:


> I was going to email the club myself but I see you have done it already.




Too slow!


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## frank9755 (20 Apr 2011)

asterix said:


> Too slow!




+1
The club might suggest that it would have been polite to have contacted them first and given them the opportunity to have a word with the miscreants!


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## frank9755 (20 Apr 2011)

Philk said:


> Sorry Frank, I disagree, as per highway code the overtaking vehicle has priority.section 162.
> The car should have left plenty of room ,agreed, but five feet, do you give other cars on the road 5 feet when overtaking? see section 163 below.
> There is a reason why you must look over your shoulder when getting ready to overtake,its not called a life saver for nothing. see 212 below.
> Its about being a responsible road user and trying to preserve your life, if you ride like an idiot its only a matter of time.
> ...






neil earley said:


> sorry Frank 9755 totally disagree with you if you ride in a group and choose to overtake cyclists in front who are riding 3 abreast you should do a lifesaver as well as check your mirror if fitted ! As a car driver is commited to the overtake allready , surely a quick glance over the shoulder is more appropriate than getting ahead of the bunch , forgot to ad said cyclist was wearing earphones in IE i pod etc think he was mad to be honest! enough accident to cyclists have happened this year allready.



Yes, agree 100% about the lifesaver. It is always best to do everything you can to reduce risk. 


There wasn't enough information in the original post to conclude on exactly what happened, but who started to overtake first? The way I read it was that, _given cars are generally faster than bikes_, it was likely that the car driver started his overtaking manoeuvre later than the bike rider started his. Therefore, had the cyclist looked over his shoulder and seen that there was a car behind, not overtaking but waiting (as the road wasn't clear but blocked by bikes!), he could have pulled out into what he thought was a clear road and suddenly found a car a few inches from his right leg. 

In my scenario the driver would have broken rule 162 by overtaking when the road was not clear. The cyclist would not have broken it as there was no other overtaking vehicle when he started his overtake. 

It sounds like you are both interpreting it is as the bike pulling out without looking when the car was already overtaking. I agree that would be madness! I also agree that some cyclists do do daft things on the road, so it may not have been how I envisaged it from the description.


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## Dan B (20 Apr 2011)

As Frank said, too little information in the OP and you could have read it either way. I'm inclined to say "six of one and half a dozen of the other" - the cyclist shouldn't have pulled out if the car behind was already changing line, but if the car then carried on instead of aborting the overtake (and assuming no other constraint such as another vehicle too close behind _him_) , well, that's not exactly an adult response either.


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## dellzeqq (20 Apr 2011)

PK99 said:


> As you say, a Grey Haired club but the sportive group are younger.


ha! Clarencourtistes are mere striplings compared to the Midweek Wayfarers!


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## dellzeqq (20 Apr 2011)

asterix said:


> Cycling clubs for adults in Kingston-upon-Thames:
> 
> 
> http://www.kingstonwheelers.co.uk/
> ...


there are more cycling clubs in Kingston, and if I had to bet on which one it was it certainly wouldn't be either of these. Neither the Wheelers and the Phoenix have the kind of people that behave in the manner the OP describes.


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## asterix (20 Apr 2011)

http://www.cyclechat.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1637257


> http://www.cyclechat.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1637257jay clock, on 18 April 2011 - 18:02:33, said:
> 
> I have emailed to
> 
> ...


http://www.cyclechat.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1637257http://www.cyclechat.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1637257



KingstonBiker said:


> I was going to email the club myself but I see you have done it already.



The OP seems to be making a hash of the whole thing. Since he says he knows the club and now says he was going to email 'em but JC has done so already, the inference is that it was one of those two. 

He could presumably protect the innocent but he is apparently disinclined to do so. 

And now you are saying it couldn't have been either of the suspects because they are such nice chaps and chapesses. This suggests you do not believe the OP.

All very unsatisfactory.


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## KingstonBiker (20 Apr 2011)

Dan B said:


> <br />As Frank said, too little information in the OP and you could have read it either way.  I'm inclined to say &quot;six of one and half a dozen of the other&quot; - the cyclist shouldn't have pulled out if the car behind was already changing line, but if the car then carried on instead of aborting the overtake (and assuming no other constraint such as another vehicle too close behind <i>him</i>) , well, that's not exactly an adult response either.<br />


<br /><br /><br />

There were no cars involved (other than being stopped at the red light). The issue was two cyclists from the Kingston Wheelers weren't happy with me stopping at the traffic light on red as they wanted to get though to keep up with their peleton. Without me moving to my left they were unable to pass through between my bike and the stationary car (at the stop line).


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## Dan B (20 Apr 2011)

KingstonBiker said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> 
> There were no cars involved (other than being stopped at the red light). The issue was two cyclists from the Kingston Wheelers weren't happy with me stopping at the traffic light on red as they wanted to get though to keep up with their peleton. Without me moving to my left they were unable to pass through between my bike and the stationary car (at the stop line).



Yes, I wasn't talking about your post but about the unrelated near miss with a car reported by someone else later in the thread. Apols for thread hijacking, then


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## ChrisW (21 Apr 2011)

KingstonBiker said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> 
> There were no cars involved (other than being stopped at the red light). The issue was two cyclists from the Kingston Wheelers weren't happy with me stopping at the traffic light on red as they wanted to get though to keep up with their peleton. Without me moving to my left they were unable to pass through between my bike and the stationary car (at the stop line).



As a member of Kington Wheelers, i can only apologise for that kind of behaviour, it is unacceptable. We are a very large Club and we do our best to try and ensure that everybody respects other road users and cycles in a responsible manner.

When members join or renew they sign a document that states: "I shall endeavour to cycle in a responsible and safe manner at all times respect road traffic regulations, laws and byelaws." It seems that in this instance this has not been adhered to.

The incident has been noted and reported on our Forum and i sincely hope that it doesn't happen again. You are also very welcome to come along on any Sunday and join us to get a feel of who we are, and how we work. 

Chris


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## alecstilleyedye (21 Apr 2011)

there are some members of my club that do tend to rlj (when 'safe') while others stop and tut at them. there's no great disadvantage to stopping at red on our club runs (except possibly in the last 5k before the café stop  ), as the pace is eased until all are back together again.

ime there isn't such a thing as a 'club cyclist' that can be boxed off as this or that. 

a good club will have a broad spectrum of members, arses not withstanding.


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## mschole (21 Apr 2011)

KingstonBiker said:


> There were no cars involved (other than being stopped at the red light). The issue was two cyclists from the Kingston Wheelers weren't happy with me stopping at the traffic light on red as they wanted to get though to keep up with their peleton. Without me moving to my left they were unable to pass through between my bike and the stationary car (at the stop line).


We have multiple groups going out on Sundays (with many members, both male and female) so it would help to know which junction this occurred at, what time of day, were they in KW kit or just in a group of cyclists that had KW kit, etc. in an attempt to narrow down who it could have been. 

It's all fine and well to post complaints on forums but if the aim is for these two cyclists to be found and asked their side and reminded not to run red lights and to represent the club more appropriately (which we are happy to do) then some details are necessary.

If the aim is to have a moan about club cyclists in general and Kingston Wheelers who are idiots, then we can't really help other than to post a general reminder on the forum and hope the guilty parties read it.


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## jay clock (21 Apr 2011)

I got a reply from Kingston Wheelers: _I'm afraid I didn't get your previous email, I don't know why but the club has a strict spam filter and it's common for emails to fall foul of this._

_As for my club, we're 300+ members and can't control everyone. But that said, I'm very surprised if this happened with club members and if so, it would be good to have a description, eg the bike they ride as it would be very unusual and it would be good to have a word with them._

_There is an overwhelming easygoing nature with the club and shouting at fellow cyclists, well that just sounds very unusual and atypical. Within reason the club makes a big effort to keep things relaxed, even when a motorist pulls a strange and dangerous move._

_Anyway, I will look into this and thanks for letting me know, it's always worth reminding people how to ride safely._

_Best regards,_

_James Beaumont_

_Webmaster - KingstonWheelers.com_


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## KingstonBiker (21 Apr 2011)

OK, it is quite clear I didn't handle the issue very well and I'd like to draw a line under it now. It was not my intention to name and shame any particular club (especially one I'm considering joining). I've had interaction with other cyclists from the club before (and even later the same day) and it has all been perfectly pleasant. 

I should have quietly contacted the club in question. I guess I was a little surprised to see RLJs from a well respected club (unlike my daily commute in which a significant minority of fellow commuters seem to totally ignore red lights).

Thanks and sorry for my handling of the issue (not helped by the fact I was away for two days after posting the topic).


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## Rebel Ian (22 Apr 2011)

I don't think you've done anything wrong at all. Irrespective of how you've chosen to communicate this, it wasn't you that told guys to cycle in the fasion they did through a red light.


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## BentMikey (22 Apr 2011)

As an aside, I know the Dynamo membership secretary, and he takes complaints about RLJing and other misbehaviour quite seriously. He'll certainly make an effort to sort out any complaints, just as the two Kingston clubs mentioned on here have. Good on them all for being responsible.


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## asterix (22 Apr 2011)

A satisfactory conclusion IMO.


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