# Surrey police crack down on Box Hill cyclists



## siadwell (16 Sep 2011)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/530140/surrey-police-go-after-inconsiderate-cyclists.html

I notice from the picture that the notice handed out by the police has been treated with the respect it deserves.


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## Wankelschrauben (16 Sep 2011)

What a load of crap. A cyclist is guilty of a finable offence of £1,000 if he slows down cars.


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## wiggydiggy (16 Sep 2011)

No better than NYC cops fining you for being out of your lane, utter pish.


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## Theseus (16 Sep 2011)

Are the police are stopping cyclists purely to hand out these leaflets?

If so, shouldn't they be asked to fill in stop forms for each instance. That will give them some paperwork for thier trouble.


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## dellzeqq (16 Sep 2011)

'We have also had increased reports ..... about groups of cyclists blocking roads by cycling in "pelotons"



Seargeant Cox will make detective yet.............


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## gaz (16 Sep 2011)

wiggydiggy said:


> No better than NYC cops fining you for being out of your lane, utter pish.


Or for ridin sexy. That was funny.


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## dellzeqq (16 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> What a load of crap. A cyclist is guilty of a finable offence of £1,000 if he slows down cars.


let's go back to the last time police officers tried this one on (I was in the court for both the first trial and the appeal......) http://www.ctc.org.u...aspx?TabID=4774


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## Wankelschrauben (16 Sep 2011)

Did it set precedence though?

If so, are Surrey Police force now enforcing their own rule illegally?


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## wiggydiggy (16 Sep 2011)

gaz said:


> Or for ridin sexy. That was funny.



Ha! I remember that, and from the picture the girl that passed me yesterday with an even shorter skirt on was a brave lass, nice pins though


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## abo (16 Sep 2011)

Shameless bit of pimping, of Silly Cyclists there Gaz


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## BluesDave (16 Sep 2011)

They should ban bloody cars from Box Hill. I hate my walks in the country being ruined by tons of metal roaring past me. Not to mention my cycle rides.
Yes I have lived in the Country for six years so I consider myself qualified to make that comment.
I think I know where I'll be going for a ride next week. I hope they stop me. I'd love to counter their legal arguements in Court.
They're getting stick for victimising motorists so now they go after cyclists. Classic playground bullying and another waste of taxpayers money.
Exactly what huge emergency at Box Hill are all the car drivers trying to get to which so endangers their lives by having to show consideration to a cyclist which may force them to slow down when they're going too damn fast anyway.
Surrey Police should be spending a bit of time on the housing estates rather than indulging in this crass stupidity.
*And I was in a good mood till I read this!*


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## BluesDave (16 Sep 2011)

Sorry I forgot to mention that the Surrey Police need to fine all the spectators in the photograph for holding up the rabbits.
Makes about as much sense.


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## siadwell (16 Sep 2011)

DavidDecorator said:


> I think I know where I'll be going for a ride next week.



There's a bunch of riders over on YACF that are definately not planning to meet up there this weekend. Honest.  




DavidDecorator said:


> *And I was in a good mood till I read this!*



Sorry!


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## CopperCyclist (16 Sep 2011)

Touche said:


> Are the police are stopping cyclists purely to hand out these leaflets?
> 
> If so, shouldn't they be asked to fill in stop forms for each instance. That will give them some paperwork for thier trouble.



Only if they search you. No longer any requirement to complete a form for a 'stop only' encounter.


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## chris-s (16 Sep 2011)

Where will it end?

Where is this box hill and how long will it take me to get there from Cornwall?



Chris


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## dellzeqq (16 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> Did it set precedence though?
> 
> If so, are Surrey Police force now enforcing their own rule illegally?


it didn't - but I wouldn't have thought, listening to the barrister at the appeal, that a prosecution for 'holding up traffic' would get very far, and I would think that the CDF would get involved if they thought the cyclists had been behaving responsibly. If you're behaving badly, menacing pedestrians, or riding on the wrong side of the road, that's a different matter. 

Whether Surrey Police are enforcing anything is open to debate. They're handing out leaflets. I'm taking a ride of, perhaps, 70 to 100 cyclists through Surrey in October, and I'm not going to lose sleep over it - but that's because I'm confident that people will ride sensibly.


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## Fnaar (16 Sep 2011)

and the grammar on the notice is all over the place... like a wayward cyclist, almost.


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## pshore (16 Sep 2011)

siadwell said:


> http://www.cyclingwe...e-cyclists.html
> 
> I notice from the picture that the notice handed out by the police has been treated with the respect it deserves.



The Police are always telling drivers to slow down especially on rural roads. You'd think they'd be pleased by the rolling road block.


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## User16625 (16 Sep 2011)

siadwell said:


> http://www.cyclingwe...e-cyclists.html
> 
> I notice from the picture that the notice handed out by the police has been treated with the respect it deserves.



Wouldnt worry too much about it. Cant really take anyone seriously after a few drinks, its just a result of a piss up at dunkin donuts thats all.


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## TVC (16 Sep 2011)

So if you drive too fast in your car you get a £60 fine, but if you go too slow on a bike you get £1000. Further , if you drive a car too slowly you only get £200 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3694201.stm *


* The views expressed above may not actually stand up in court.


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## BluesDave (16 Sep 2011)

siadwell said:


> http://www.cyclingwe...e-cyclists.html
> 
> I notice from the picture that the notice handed out by the police has been treated with the respect it deserves.




Yes but where are the skid-marks upon said bit of paper or have they been airbrushed out?
If I was handed that it would definately end up cut into squares with a peice of string through it.


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## nosherduke996 (16 Sep 2011)

What a load of utter bollox. Box hill is a private road anyway, it,s closed one day a year to keep it this way.


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## barongreenback (16 Sep 2011)

Idiocy. We should organise a mass cycle, Blackfriars Bridge style.


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## Wades (16 Sep 2011)

I'm confused. Who are this 'Surrey Police'? I work in Dorking and have yet to encounter any...






Fair enough if people are cycling like c*cks but there must be better ways to enforce a bit of discipline. It'll be interesting to see what happen when someone appeals one of these and it has to go through the courts.


Anyway can't say I go up there very often it's usually bloomin crowded at the best of times (like the rest of the county!)


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## downfader (16 Sep 2011)

Instead of complaining on a forum DO something about it. You have several options:

1) write to the Police expressing "serious concern" that they may not have understood the issues cyclists face, and the way in which bike clubs have always operated (and very much legally)

2) Get your cycle club to write to the Police with the above

3) Write to the local paper (Bournemouth Echo? Is it?), even ask for a story on it. Support your fellow cyclists with good letters and emails. Raise the profile.

If there is ANY issue with cyclists sharing the road with motorists then why are the Police not highlighting this in a more effective way instead of listening to bleeding-hearts..? They could have made a serious call for decent segregation, for one, just as abroad where the roads are divided up equally. One for you my cyclist friends, one for you my driver friend... and so on.

The last option is 4) Join the local club down there and join them for a ride.


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## dellzeqq (16 Sep 2011)

complain about what? The police giving out leaflets?


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## henshaw11 (16 Sep 2011)

downfader said:


> Instead of complaining on a forum DO something about it. You have several options:
> 
> 1) write to the Police expressing "serious concern" that they may not have understood the issues cyclists face, and the way in which bike clubs have always operated (and very much legally)
> 
> ...



I don't know which post you've been reading, but you've got *completely* the wrong end of the stick - Box Hill's in Surrey, on the north Downs, and where the Olympic roadrace route makes several circuits over (trial event a few weekends ago).


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## ManiaMuse (16 Sep 2011)

downfader said:


> If there is ANY issue with cyclists sharing the road with motorists then why are the Police not highlighting this in a more effective way instead of listening to bleeding-hearts..? They could have made a serious call for decent segregation, for one, just as abroad where the roads are divided up equally. One for you my cyclist friends, one for you my driver friend... and so on.



The countryside folk aren't going to like the suggestion of paving another path up there...


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## screenman (16 Sep 2011)

I have no problem with the Police handing out notices, I would happily see all the muppets that get cyclist a bad name fined. Pretend racers in sportive events often block road with inconsiderate riding around here.


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## mcshroom (16 Sep 2011)

I'd suggest that there's been some moaning at a local neighbourhood forum looking at that. Or an individual copper with a bee in his bonnet.


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## funnymummy (16 Sep 2011)

chris-s said:


> Where is this box hill and how long will it take me to get there from Cornwall?
> 
> Chris


It's in Surry, about 250 miles & 5 hours from you....But you're welcome to stopover at Chez Funny, it's about 40 miles from me & I ride push my bike up there reguarly


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## downfader (16 Sep 2011)

Surrey? Misread that bit. The sentiment still stands. Stick up for yourselves. Ignoring this stuff just makes it fester.


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## Banjo (16 Sep 2011)

I think its a storm in a teacup. Sensible considerate riders wont be affected. Inconsiderate riders deserve what they get.


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## apollo179 (16 Sep 2011)

Ignoring the legality of the fines i dont see the Police are doing anything wrong in advising cyclists against riding inconsiderately and antisocially and contrary to the rules of the highway code.
Nothing causes more anti bike feeling than groups of lycra clad heros emboldened by numbers cycling selfishly and with no consideration for other traffic.
Shame the police feel the need to take this action in the first place.


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## 400bhp (16 Sep 2011)

Banjo said:


> I think its a storm in a teacup. Sensible considerate riders wont be affected. Inconsiderate riders deserve what they get.



+1

Bit of a Daily Whail type feel this thread.


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## 400bhp (16 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> 1. Ignoring the legality of the fines i dont see the Police are doing anything wrong in advising cyclists against riding inconsiderately and antisocially and contrary to the rules of the highway code.
> 2. Nothing causes more anti bike feeling than groups of lycra clad heros emboldened by numbers cycling selfishly and with no consideration for other traffic.
> Shame the police feel the need to take this action in the first place.



1. Agree

2. Disagree


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## downfader (16 Sep 2011)

Banjo said:


> I think its a storm in a teacup. Sensible considerate riders wont be affected. Inconsiderate riders deserve what they get.




But thats not really what has been said by the officers. Does the average motorist, or more specifically non-cyclist, understand the rights and obligations of cyclists? There appears to be some confusion. This is a good opportunity to help clarify those confusions.


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## pshore (16 Sep 2011)

I know its not defined, but when does cycling become inconsiderate ? 

How much time can I hold someone up for ? 
At what speed is it no longer inconsiderate ? 
Is driving a tractor/caravan/truck without pulling over inconsiderate? 
Is waiting in a line of hundreds of cars and blocking roads to get into a boxing day sale inconsiderate or a queue ?

So many questions, so many variables. No wonder its undefined.


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## Rebel Ian (16 Sep 2011)

Next weekend I'm doing an organised 115 mile sportive around London that shortly after the start goes straight through Box Hill - that'll slow the bloody traffic down for sure!!!


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## ayceejay (16 Sep 2011)

Easy answer to the problem especially as this probably only becomes a problem on Sundays is close the windy bit to motorists providing them with diversion signs to go up another way.


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## Red Light (17 Sep 2011)

There's a bit more information and explanation on Surrey Police's website:



*Update: 22/08/2011 16:37:12*
_CYCLISTS ON RURAL ROADS
The rural roads around Mole Valley have always been popular with cyclists, however, since the announcement of the Olympic cycle route in/around Box Hill the numbers of cyclists on our roads have significantly increased.

The local Neighbourhood Policing Team have received numerous complaints from motorists regarding the behaviour of cyclists and are currently trying to educate as many as possible to increase road safety. 

If you are a cyclist, and/or, a member of a cycling club, please inform any fellow cyclists of their responsibility to adhere to the Highway Code when cycling. 
The Code states that cyclists should never ride more than two abreast, and on narrow roads they should ride in single file. Failure to adhere to the Highway Code may lead to you being prosecuted.

Careless and inconsiderate riding legislation states: If a person, rides a cycle, on a road, without due care and attention, or, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, is guilty of an offence. This legislation carries a maximum fine of £1,000.
_​


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## d87heaven (17 Sep 2011)

> _ without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road_



If that was used on a basis to prosecute peds and/or motorists then I think the force would need to order some extra tickets.

Reasonable consideration is a pretty vague term though isn't it?


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## Vikeonabike (17 Sep 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I'd suggest that there's been some moaning at a local neighbourhood forum looking at that.





This the problem with allowing the local community to decide local policing priorities. Unfortunately the public perception of a problem is usually altogether different to the actual problem. You also tend to find that more people from the more afflent areas on your patch turn out to set priorities. Therfore the policing priorities are weighted more in that direction. 

Sorry to say that wha'ts important to Joe Bloggs..Parking on verges, dog fouling, litter etc really isn't a police issue, however we have to spend time dealing with these issues instead of doing proactive burglary patrols, entering peoples houses with our big red key and taking away thier drugs, dealing with car crime etc. 

However, if *individual *cyclists are acting in a manner that is causing a *POLICING* issue then it should be dealt with on an *individual* basis.


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## Angelfishsolo (17 Sep 2011)

Vikeonabike said:


> This the problem with allowing the local community to decide local policing priorities. Unfortunately the public perception of a problem is usually altogether different to the actual problem. You also tend to find that more people from the more afflent areas on your patch turn out to set priorities. Therfore the policing priorities are weighted more in that direction.
> 
> Sorry to say that wha'ts important to Joe Bloggs..Parking on verges, dog fouling, litter etc really isn't a police issue, however we have to spend time dealing with these issues instead of doing proactive burglary patrols, entering peoples houses with our big red key and taking away thier drugs, dealing with car crime etc.
> 
> However, if *individual *cyclists are acting in a manner that is causing a *POLICING* issue then it should be dealt with on an *individual* basis.



VoaB - Always a voice of sense and reason


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## Angelfishsolo (17 Sep 2011)

1546987 said:


> So the solution is obvious. More complaints about inconsiderate driving rather than mentally filing it under "nothing would be done about it"



As long as you live in an affluent area!


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## GrumpyGregry (17 Sep 2011)

_'In addition, we have had complaints regarding the inappropriate speed of some cyclists in the narrow and winding lanes around the Surrey Hills.'_

Now I accept that might be true. I accept I myself have come down some of those lanes at speeds some might consider inappropriate. I accept that the number of cyclists using the Surrey Hills has shot up recently and I have seen some people, including those kitted out in club kit, riding like c*cks.

But in addition Surrey Police have had complaints regarding the inappropriate speed of most car drivers in the narrow and winding lanes around the Surrey Hills and have done c*ck all about it.


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## clarion (17 Sep 2011)

Yes, I think those cyclists riding at inappropriate speeds probably are holding up motorists who wish to drive at even more inappropriate speeds.


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## CopperCyclist (17 Sep 2011)

Vikeonabike said:


> Sorry to say that wha'ts important to Joe Bloggs..Parking on verges, dog fouling, litter etc really isn't a police issue, however we have to spend time dealing with these issues instead of doing proactive burglary patrols, entering peoples houses with our big red key and taking away thier drugs, dealing with car crime etc.
> 
> However, if individual cyclists are acting in a manner that is causing a POLICING issue then it should be dealt with on an individual basis.



+1 Been saying this ever since neighbourhood policing came out!


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## freecyclist (17 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it didn't - but I wouldn't have thought, listening to the barrister at the appeal, that a prosecution for 'holding up traffic' would get very far, and I would think that the CDF would get involved if they thought the cyclists had been behaving responsibly. If you're behaving badly, menacing pedestrians, or riding on the wrong side of the road, that's a different matter.
> 
> Whether Surrey Police are enforcing anything is open to debate. They're handing out leaflets. I'm taking a ride of, perhaps, 70 to 100 cyclists through Surrey in October, and *I'm not going to lose sleep over it - but that's because I'm confident that people will ride sensibly*.



Your website and the vidoe evidence would suggest the contrary.
You seem to be the selfappointed defender of the faith as far as loutish and inconsiderate group cycling goes.
One question.
Rather than just knee jerk knuckle dragging defiance woudnt a more responsible response have been to say :
"Sometimes the behaviour of cyclists riding in large groups is not acceptable and does give cyclists a bad name. All cyclists should take on board the advice of the police and cooperate whole heartedly"


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## dellzeqq (17 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> Your website and the vidoe evidence would suggest the contrary.
> You seem to be the selfappointed defender of the faith as far as loutish and inconsiderate group cycling goes.
> One question.
> Rather than just knee jerk knuckle dragging defiance woudnt a more responsible response have been to say :
> "Sometimes the behaviour of cyclists riding in large groups is not acceptable and does give cyclists a bad name. All cyclists should take on board the advice of the police and cooperate whole heartedly"


mad as a box of frogs!


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## downfader (17 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> Your website and the vidoe evidence would suggest the contrary.
> You seem to be the selfappointed defender of the faith as far as loutish and inconsiderate group cycling goes.
> One question.
> Rather than just knee jerk knuckle dragging defiance woudnt a more responsible response have been to say :
> "Sometimes the behaviour of cyclists riding in large groups is not acceptable and does give cyclists a bad name. All cyclists should take on board the advice of the police and cooperate whole heartedly"




In what way, exactly, have his fellow riders caused a problem? 

EDIT: and I'll add that Vike adds some very salient points. Some people may in fact be complaining out of a dislike rather than an actual problem.


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## Jmetz (17 Sep 2011)

Am I the only one who read the 'slowing down part' as though it was relating to the riding more than two abreast. If so, what's the problem with the flyer.


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## henshaw11 (17 Sep 2011)

Jmetz said:


> Am I the only one who read the 'slowing down part' as though it was relating to the riding more than two abreast. If so, what's the problem with the flyer.



Because it's bit bloomin' cheeky, when the real problem is people driving like c*cks - and inconsiderate driving in their part is potentially dangerous rather than just an inconvenience. Plus - as has been suggested - it may well be idiots complaining about cyclists taking up 'their' road because they're ignorant of the law/HC/lacking sense (amply demonstrated by the number of muppets that try to overtake me at pinch points or on blind corners, or try to direct me to keep over)

There's the A24 nearby where you wouldn't so much get 3-abreast, but would be > 2 staggered (I guess, given that I'm generally billy no-mates on a 'bent), and still leave a lane free, some of the other roads round there are either residential or narrow so hooning round them in a car isn't very advisable anyway.

I daresay there are some people behaving like idiots, but it's a bit like complaining about a spot on yer backside when you can't be bothered to wipe yer 4rse. Or something like that.


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## dellzeqq (18 Sep 2011)

clubs have been riding the roads around Box Hill for sixty years to my knowledge. This leaflet is not going to change that.


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## Aperitif (18 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> Your website and the vidoe evidence would suggest the contrary.
> *You seem to be the selfappointed defender of the faith as far as loutish and inconsiderate group cycling goes.*
> One question.
> Rather than just knee jerk knuckle dragging defiance woudnt a more responsible response have been to say :
> "Sometimes the behaviour of cyclists riding in large groups is not acceptable and does give cyclists a bad name. All cyclists should take on board the advice of the police and cooperate whole heartedly"



I'm happy to be in that group which you so inadequately describe.

Which gives me loutish reason to sigh menacingly.

Dellzeqq is no 'self-appointed defender of the faith' anyway. He's got the 'hit squad' to sort out his troubles if and when they arise. We just trash cars if they get in the way, with rarely a complaint from the driver - they can't say much swinging from a tree in the dead of night I suppose...


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## Angelfishsolo (18 Sep 2011)

Aperitif said:


> I'm happy to be in that group which you so inadequately describe.
> 
> Which gives me loutish reason to sigh menacingly.
> 
> Dellzeqq is no 'self-appointed defender of the faith' anyway. He's got the 'hit squad' to sort out his troubles if and when they arise. We just trash cars if they get in the way, with rarely a complaint from the driver - they can't say much swinging from a tree in the dead of night I suppose...


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## lukesdad (18 Sep 2011)

I think there is quite a lot of history here. I rode around the boxhill area a lot in the early to mid 70s, not really a lot of cycleactivity then clubs or otherwise. There was however a big problem with motorcyclists illegal hill climbing and drag racing along the mad mile. Perhaps Surrey Police have these problems at the back of their minds ?


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## gambatte (17 Nov 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-15773470


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## dellzeqq (17 Nov 2011)

https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## lukesdad (17 Nov 2011)

Has this not been ongoing for a number of weeks now ?


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## lukesdad (17 Nov 2011)

Oops cross posted.


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## gambatte (17 Nov 2011)

Yeah, but last post over there was 2 months ago and this is the latest report on the beeb.


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## Dan_h (17 Nov 2011)

lukesdad said:


> I think there is quite a lot of history here. I rode around the boxhill area a lot in the early to mid 70s, not really a lot of cycleactivity then clubs or otherwise. There was however a big problem with motorcyclists illegal hill climbing and drag racing along the mad mile. Perhaps Surrey Police have these problems at the back of their minds ?



The motorcycles around there were always a bit of a problem. I lived not far from box hill about 12 years ago and trying to drive through there on a warm Sunday afternoon was always a bit frought with bikes wheelieing and racing up and down the road, not to mention the massive crowds of onlookers that gathered often in the road!

If the complaints from the locals genuinely are regarding inconsiderate riding and aggressive behaviour on the part of cyclists (and let's not pretend that that does not happen!) then I can see the problem. If it is just that drivers feel the volume of bikes is holding them up then that is not a reasonable complaint.

As a thought, I was riding in a sportive last year with a large group of riders. The line of us must have been easily 100 yards long. Going up a couple of climbs cars would move out to overtake and need to move back in before reaching the front of the row of bikes. I saw a few drivers getting abuse hurled at them by some of the cyclists which seemed unreasonable to me, letting them back in so they could wait for the next opportunity to pass the rest of the line would seem like a much more reasonable thing to do IMHO.


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## byegad (17 Nov 2011)

When Surrey Police issue warnings to motorists for clogging the towns and slowing everyone including cyclists, then I'd take notice. Until then... And! Thank goodness I don't live in Surrey!!!


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## lukesdad (17 Nov 2011)

byegad said:


> When Surrey Police issue warnings to motorists for clogging the towns and slowing everyone including cyclists, then I'd take notice. Until then... And! Thank goodness I don't live in Surrey!!!




Could become englands Puy de Dome.


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## Mozzy (18 Nov 2011)

chris-s said:


> Where will it end?
> 
> Where is this box hill and how long will it take me to get there from Cornwall?
> 
> ...



Just down the rd from Colley Hill, not far from Dorking (from memory, been years since I went there. Used to be a great cafe we'd all meet up on out Motor sickles. So, from Corning wall? Long time cos tis uphill then a big hill when you get there. Nice to see the ol Bill are busy.


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## dellzeqq (18 Nov 2011)

byegad makes a good point. Dorking is two miles away, and absolutely clogged solid with cars on a Saturday. Perhaps we should write to Surrey Police and complain (as in somebody else - I've got big bike rides planned for Surrey?


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## Ticktockmy (18 Nov 2011)

Early this year i road down the Ziz Zag road from the top of Box hill and on the sharp left hand bends by the Entrance to the nursing home, there was one huge pile of downed cyclist, seems they did not know the road and had arrived at the bend too fast some paniced and down they all went. Luckly only grazes and hurt pride.


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## Dunlopdave (18 Nov 2011)

chris-s said:


> Where will it end?
> 
> Where is this box hill and how long will it take me to get there from Cornwall?
> 
> ...


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## Alembicbassman (27 Nov 2011)

£1000 is a Level 1 fine, imposed in a magistrates court after a hearing and when a verdict is passed, more commonly a £30 fixed penalty notice is issued. The police have to issue the notice - they usually have more important things to do. The notice is just scaremongery.


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