# This really annoyed me



## benb (23 Jan 2012)

There is just about room for a car to come the other way here. There is most certainly not enough room for a bus to do it.


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## Canrider (23 Jan 2012)

Eep! Did you catch any reaction to your hand signal?


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## BSRU (23 Jan 2012)

Would the bus driver have executed the same manoeuvre if you had been driving a car, I think not.


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## Edwards80 (23 Jan 2012)

Blimey. Let us know where you get your new cycling shorts from.


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## potsy (23 Jan 2012)

I like the wave, that's what I do now, no point shouting as they don't give a toss anyway.


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## growingvegetables (23 Jan 2012)

Hmmm - the bus indicates in plenty (?) time. 

A friendly "Hey, I'm driving a hugely ungainly and ugly beast; I need the space, please, mate"? Warning - "Hey *******, I'm coming through whether you like it or not"? Or just on autopilot?

If it'd been my video, I think I'd have decided that I'd maybe got it a bit wrong, and could/should have given way - dunno, just a bit of payback for many, many bits of courtesy I've had from bus-drivers?


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## YahudaMoon (23 Jan 2012)

Yep. Bus driver indicated and was in primary position way before you had right of way

I really don't see the point in half these so called 'I'm right, your wrong' cycle cam submissions on this here CC.

Surely you could see the bus dead ahead indicating and coming through. All you had to do was be patient, slow down or even stop and give way to the bus driver. That said as you was being impaition and not giving way to the bus this was no excuse for him/her not slowing or even stoping the bus in the bottle necked road where you both crossed paths


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## benb (23 Jan 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> Hmmm - the bus indicates in plenty (?) time.
> 
> A friendly "Hey, I'm driving a hugely ungainly and ugly beast; I need the space, please, mate"? Warning - "Hey *******, I'm coming through whether you like it or not"? Or just on autopilot?
> 
> If it'd been my video, I think I'd have decided that I'd maybe got it a bit wrong, and could/should have given way - dunno, just a bit of payback for many, many bits of courtesy I've had from bus-drivers?


 
I got it wrong? Are you nuts? He had to pull over to the opposite side of the road, therefore it's his responsibility to give way to oncoming traffic. There was no traffic behind me, so he could have easily waited for me to come through.



YahudaMoon said:


> Yep. Bus driver indicated and was in primary position way before you had right of way
> 
> I really don't see the point in half these so called 'I'm right, your wrong' cycle cam submissions on this here CC.
> 
> Surely you could see the bus dead ahead indicating and coming through. All you had to do was be patient, slow down or even stop and give way to the bus driver. That said as you was being impaition and not giving way to the bus this was no excuse for him/her not slowing or even stoping the bus in the bottle necked road where you both crossed paths


 
What are you on about? He pulled over to my side of the road, nearly forcing me off, but you think he had right of way?


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## YahudaMoon (23 Jan 2012)

As you see it. The cars are parked on the right giving yourself right of way. Correct.

Though the bus was indicating and had primary way before had hit the parked cars on the right giving you plenty of time to stop and give way to the bus so in my opinion the bus driver did no wrong other than not stopping before he passed you. That said you did not stop either.


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## BentMikey (23 Jan 2012)

It's funny how the difference between two similar situations like this one can lead to very different feelings. Had the bus driver "asked" to be let out, and you let him out, I bet you would both have felt excellent. This is the other shading of this sort of situation, where the bus just assumes they can go through, and perhaps take advantage of your relative size and vulnerability to push on through, which tends to leave a feeling of annoyance and being taken advantage of.


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## Jezston (23 Jan 2012)

I'm not sure I understand the use of the term 'primary' in the context of a motor vehicle?


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## benb (23 Jan 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> As you see it. The cars are parked on the right giving yourself right of way. Correct.
> 
> Though the bus was indicating and had primary way before had hit the parked cars on the right giving you plenty of time to stop and give way to the bus so in my opinion the bus driver did no wrong other than not stopping before he passed you. That said you did not stop either.


 
Yes, as I see it because I was there.
In fact I didn't have "plenty of time". I had to brake sharply as it was to get out of the way.

It's interesting that you don't think the bus driver did anything wrong, when he practically forced me off the road.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (23 Jan 2012)

I think you are right to be a little peeved by that... YahudaMoon’s use of language to describe the situation betrays his/her ignorance on the subject


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## BentMikey (23 Jan 2012)

I'm with you on that, Ben. The bus driver is on the wrong side of the road, overtaking parked cars, and despite oncoming traffic. YahudaMoon is on the wrong side of it too, together with the bus driver.


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## addictfreak (23 Jan 2012)

Benb's in the right without doubt. Just because he sticks an indicator on does not give him the right to pull out, he should indicate his intention then pull out when _*safe*_ to do so.


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## Bman (23 Jan 2012)

Indeed. The bus driver pulled out into the oncoming lane, causing another road user to take evasive action.

The bus driver should have waited. I'd be a little annoyed at that too.


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## oldfatfool (23 Jan 2012)

The bus would probably have done the same to a car in that situation, they all seem to think they have some god given right and have to be given way to at all times. In fact I think some bus drivers think they have blues and twos going, the way they run amber/red lights and slam the anchors on to let other buses pull out.


And breathe


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Jan 2012)

Benb, in my book the bus driver is in the wrong, every which way.

Just not sure, in such a situation, that taking one hand off the bar, even to wave, is a wise choice.


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## the snail (23 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> What are you on about? He pulled over to my side of the road, nearly forcing me off, but you think he had right of way?


If I'd have been driving, I'd probably have stopped and let him out. Looking at the footage, it looks 50/50 whether he had pulled out before you got to the obstruction, and neither of you had "right of way", there's no such thing. I think road users should allow a bit of give and take, and imo you would have been better to have shown more caution approaching a hazard, and once it was obvious the bus had pulled out you should have given way, rather than ploughing on regardless. I suspect if the bus had been a cyclist and a car did what you did people would be saying the car driver was in the wrong.


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## Riding in Circles (23 Jan 2012)

It looks safe-ish, however if you had had a blow out or any number of other possibles at that moment you would have been dead under the bus wheels, bus driver needs a reminder on how to drive safely.


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## dawesome (23 Jan 2012)

The driver could at least have slowed, you're not really supposed to accelerate toward on-coming road users when you're on the wrong side of the road!


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## lukesdad (23 Jan 2012)

We have signs on em round here ' Please let the bus go first '


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## Hip Priest (23 Jan 2012)

Bad move by the bus driver. An error of judgement at best. Close call.


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## Muddyfox (23 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> We have signs on em round here ' Please let the bus go first '


 
Drama Queens LD


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## gaz (23 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> We have signs on em round here ' Please let the bus go first '


Correct me if i'm wrong.. those are on the back of the bus and relate to highway code rule 223, where you should let a bus pull out from a stop when it is indicating.

Not exactly the same as what is in the video.


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## col (23 Jan 2012)

The bus was moving out and entering the parked cars area before you actually got there, and probably misjudged your speed. You could have slowed abit and not had any real incident, carrying on just made it worse. A mistake made into an incident, happens too often.


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## wheres_my_beard (23 Jan 2012)

Unless I am mistaken the bus was stationary and waiting for the car in front to pass before he pulled out, despite seeing that there was a cyclist coming towards him. Whether the driver misjudged the bike's speed or not, he was moving, and had priority in my mind. The bus driver only had to wait a couple of seconds more and this would have been avoided.


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## col (23 Jan 2012)

wheres_my_beard said:


> Unless I am mistaken the bus was stationary and waiting for the car in front to pass before he pulled out, despite seeing that there was a cyclist coming towards him. Whether the driver misjudged the bike's speed or not, he was moving, and had priority in my mind. The bus driver only had to wait a couple of seconds more and this would have been avoided.


 Mistakes happen, the cyclist only had to slow a few seconds and this could have been avoided.


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## growingvegetables (23 Jan 2012)

Sorry, folks (aye, and Benb) - that indicator bugs me a bit. Goodness me - I am really showing my age here .


Back over 40 years ago, when I was learning to drive, I was told

to give cyclists plenty space - “enough room for them to fall over”. A bit out date now  .
that lorry and bus drivers were specifically trained to indicate, *and move out to claim space* they needed, just because they they were slow and heavy, and ungainly pigs to drive. In just the sort of situation here. And it was up to me, the car driver, to spot, and give way.
Hey - nothing of these in the HC, now or then; it was just practical common sense and courtesy.

Aye – and nowadays? I like it when other road users go out of their way to take care of me; if sometimes I can go out of my way to show respect for a bus – aye, I'm happy to do it.  Just a different judgement call. Not "I'm right-you're wrong" .

I lose a few seconds of my time, but get a cheery wave from the bus driver. He's happy; I'm happy . And I cycle off into the sunset polishing my well-burnished halo  --------- and enjoy the rest of my day. OK - not nuts, just a sanctimonious p***k.


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## lukesdad (23 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong.. those are on the back of the bus and relate to highway code rule 223, where you should let a bus pull out from a stop when it is indicating.
> 
> Not exactly the same as what is in the video.


 Ah I thought it might read in the SE 'Please let the bus go first unless you re a cyclist' Of course all you southern commuters adhere to this rule I take it.


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## Lurker (23 Jan 2012)

The bus driver was clearly in the wrong. You could write to TfL to complain and ask the operator to remind the driver of the Highway Code. Rule 163 really couldn't put it any clearer....
*163*

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

....

give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
....

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314


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## mr_hippo (23 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> There is just about room for a car to come the other way here. There is most certainly not enough room for a bus to do it.


I think you and the bus driver proved that there was enough room!!!!!!!!!!
I see your video is called 'Right of way'', I have been cycling for over 50 years and just after I started I applied for my right of way permit - I am still waiting. Should I re-apply for one?


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (23 Jan 2012)

You'll never stop other road users making mistakes, and a skinny cyclist amongst loads of moving tin boxes is easily missed.

All you can do is ride or drive in such a way that you can deal with the mistakes of others better.

So instead of riding at 20mph+ in an area of potential conflict ... ride at 8mph.

Most of the videos i see posted on cc involve the cyclist moving at speed vs someone in a vehicle making a mistake.


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## YahudaMoon (23 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> I think you and the bus driver proved that there was enough room!!!!!!!!!!
> I see your video is called 'Right of way'', I have been cycling for over 50 years and just after I started I applied for my right of way permit - I am still waiting. Should I re-apply for one?


 
Very good, very good 

The panto horse has nothing to do with this thread. It just makes me laugh :-D


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## benb (23 Jan 2012)

col said:


> The bus was moving out and entering the parked cars area before you actually got there, and probably misjudged your speed. You could have slowed abit and not had any real incident, carrying on just made it worse. A mistake made into an incident, happens too often.


I did slow down, a lot.


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## benb (23 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> I think you and the bus driver proved that there was enough room!!!!!!!!!!
> I see your video is called 'Right of way'', I have been cycling for over 50 years and just after I started I applied for my right of way permit - I am still waiting. Should I re-apply for one?


Not really sure what your point is? That I should have said priority not right of way?


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## benb (23 Jan 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> So instead of riding at 20mph+ in an area of potential conflict ... ride at 8mph.



No thanks.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (23 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> No thanks.


 
Your choice.
Personally i rein in the speed a bit around town, but go like an absolute friggin lunatic around the local forest tracks.
I have a chipped collar bone from colliding with a uninsured tree.


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## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I did slow down, a lot.


Are you sure? Turn the volume up on the clip and listen to the wind noise - that tells a different story.
We cyclists are vulnerable road users; our bodies protect the metal but driver's bodies are protected by the metal. Now with a bus, who is heavier and faster than you, do you really want to debate right of way, priority or the price of fish? When people arrive at the Pearly Gates years too early, St Peter is sick of hearing "But I had right of way!"
I tried a different route home today and this happened just as I turned off the Korat By Pass

My reaction? Just a shrug of my shoulders, nothing more


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## Keith Oates (24 Jan 2012)

That's fairly normal in most of Asia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## YahudaMoon (24 Jan 2012)

Keith Oates said:


> That's fairly normal in most of Asia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
As are impatient road users going head on with buses in the U.K. LOL

By the way I think my comedy horse could be a zebra ?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> As are impatient road users going head on with buses in the U.K. LOL
> 
> By the way I think my comedy horse could be a zebra ?



He pulled into the opposite side of the road with an oncoming cyclist, when there wasn't time/room, but I'm the one being impatient? How odd.


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## ferret fur (24 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> My reaction? Just a shrug of my shoulders, nothing more


Probably helps to explain Thailand's frighteningly high road casualty rate


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## TwickenhamCyclist (24 Jan 2012)

Keith Oates said:


> That's fairly normal in most of Asia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

So is an atrocious road causality rate – as I’m sure you are aware...



Oh. And just because a bus has a little sticker on the back saying please let the bus go first doesn’t mean bus drivers can just pull out on a whim and expect all other road users have to take evasive action (that bit isn't aimed at you Keith!)


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## subaqua (24 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Ah I thought it might read in the SE 'Please let the bus go first unless you re a cyclist' Of course all you southern commuters adhere to this rule I take it.


 
I do as i can keep up with the bus along Warren rd one way system where there is a "cycle lane" *, stops car drivers trying to drive through me

* what it actually is , is a road that has 3 lanes in it parked cars take the left and right lanes and the centre lane is for traffic. the left lane is fairly wide and has one cycle symbol at the beginning


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## BentMikey (24 Jan 2012)

Being nice to the bus driver and letting them out is all well and good, but remember there can be unexpected and unpleasant consequences to ceding your priority. It's like filtering, it's a time to be extra cautious and observant.

p.s. and I'd like to think I'm usually super nice to bus drivers.


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## lukesdad (24 Jan 2012)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> So is an atrocious road causality rate – as I’m sure you are aware...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. And just because a bus has a little sticker on the back saying please let the bus go first doesn’t mean bus drivers can just pull out on a whim and expect all other road users have to take evasive action (that bit isn't aimed at you Keith!)


I think you missed the smilies.


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> He pulled into the opposite side of the road with an oncoming cyclist, when there wasn't time/room, but I'm the one being impatient? How odd.


 
Indeed, oddness seems to be the order of the day. Odd that the council has seen fit to place a parking bay on a narrow stretch of the road, effectively dedicating the lane to stationary vehicles, and thereby forcing buses and blindly-follow-my-leader cars into the opposite carriageway . Odd that, as the roads get more and more sclerotic, buses get bigger and bigger so that for bus drivers to do their job, they're under constant pressure to drive in contravention of the Highway Code. Odd that as the HC breaks down, driving slips directly into a de facto ''might is right'' approach. 

Oddest is that some cyclists will defend this situation. I'm all for give and take but this only works one way and really means ''cyclist gives, driver takes.''


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

Oh, and everyone who said I shouldn't have taken one hand off the bars; you're absolutely right. I didn't even know I'd done it until I looked at the video: it was an unconsious spur of the moment reaction.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> He pulled into the opposite side of the road with an oncoming cyclist, when there wasn't time/room, but I'm the one being impatient? How odd.


 You werent in the wrong, the driver was. Just instead of making the most of the drivers mistake , you could have done things a different way and had no problem at all. Which is it seems, the way of a lot of cam users. Its Like going fishing, when a bite comes along make the most of it. There has been, and probably still is cam users who do just that, and even makes a situation seem worse just to get a good vid on the tube. Now before you start taking offence, Im not say you are, just you had a choice and you chose to catch that fish.


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## Andrew_P (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You werent in the wrong, the driver was. Just instead of making the most of the drivers mistake , you could have done things a different way and had no problem at all. Which is it seems, the way of a lot of cam users. Its Like going fishing, when a bite comes along make the most of it. There has been, and probably still is cam users who do just that, and even makes a situation seem worse just to get a good vid on the tube. Now before you start taking offence, Im not say you are, just you had a choice and you chose to catch that fish.


I think you have point in general, but I really do not think this happened here.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Indeed, oddness seems to be the order of the day. Odd that the council has seen fit to place a parking bay on a narrow stretch of the road, effectively dedicating the lane to stationary vehicles, and thereby forcing buses and blindly-follow-my-leader cars into the opposite carriageway . Odd that, as the roads get more and more sclerotic, buses get bigger and bigger so that for bus drivers to do their job, they're under constant pressure to drive in contravention of the Highway Code. Odd that as the HC breaks down, driving slips directly into a de facto ''might is right'' approach.
> 
> Oddest is that some cyclists will defend this situation. I'm all for give and take but this only works one way and really means ''cyclist gives, driver takes.''


 You wouldnt believe where they have bus stops too. On junctions, even on roundabouts and blind bends. All which seem an obvious danger. It s a gamble just pulling away on some as you cant see whats coming, but what do you do, sit there all day? The passenger with a timed connection wouldnt be happy about that. But we get used to being the punchbag, but dont understand why the councils arent attacked about correcting these so obvious errors of theirs, that we pay the price for by the cyclists blaming the drivers, like this example. A big deal has been made of this, but then I can see why the driver passed the parked cars. The first chance he saw a gap he went, a cyclist coming the other way didnt want to give in any way, yet there was room if both parties cooperated. Instead there is yet another vid published to show how bad bus drivers are. Just like car drivers who hate giving way, they will slow and stop in the narrowest place of a close pass so making the pass very tight. And when you try to thank them they look straight ahead grimacing, when a few yards further would make it very easy. Some cyclists need to get rid of their anger to other motorists and start thinking safety and cooperation instead.


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## Keith Oates (24 Jan 2012)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> So is an atrocious road causality rate – as I’m sure you are aware...


 
You are correct, in Ho Chi Minh City they are reputed to average 80 road accidents per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> Are you sure? Turn the volume up on the clip and listen to the wind noise - that tells a different story.
> We cyclists are vulnerable road users; our bodies protect the metal but driver's bodies are protected by the metal. Now with a bus, who is heavier and faster than you, do you really want to debate right of way, priority or the price of fish? When people arrive at the Pearly Gates years too early, St Peter is sick of hearing "But I had right of way!"


 
You can deduce what you like, Poriot, but I did brake substantially (had there been time to stop before the cars I probably would have).

I also pulled practically off the road, so I certainly wasn't putting my priority before my safety.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You wouldnt believe where they have bus stops too. On junctions, even on roundabouts and blind bends. All which seem an obvious danger. It s a gamble just pulling away on some as you cant see whats coming, but what do you do, sit there all day? The passenger with a timed connection wouldnt be happy about that. But we get used to being the punchbag, but dont understand why the councils arent attacked about correcting these so obvious errors of theirs, that we pay the price for by the cyclists blaming the drivers, like this example. A big deal has been made of this, but then I can see why the driver passed the parked cars. The first chance he saw a gap he went, a cyclist coming the other way didnt want to give in any way, yet there was room if both parties cooperated. Instead there is yet another vid published to show how bad bus drivers are. Just like car drivers who hate giving way, they will slow and stop in the narrowest place of a close pass so making the pass very tight. And when you try to thank them they look straight ahead grimacing, when a few yards further would make it very easy. Some cyclists need to get rid of their anger to other motorists and start thinking safety and cooperation instead.


 
This has got nothing to do with pulling out from a bus stop. I will almost always let a bus out from a bus stop, for all the reasons you have stated.

There were no cars behind me, so the bus driver could easily have waited until I was clear. A challenging schedule is no excuse for him taking risks with the safety of other road users, and there really wasn't enough room for him to do this safely.


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## YahudaMoon (24 Jan 2012)

LOCO said:


> I think you have point in general, but I really do not think this happened here.


I disagree. Worst offenders seem to be the ones that have just purchased such a device, that being a bike/helmet mounted cam. Strange how we had a fluffy of none dangourous situations submitted on here just after Christmas with the strap-line. 'Look I Nearly Got Killed' or something like it. Only to see the video and then come to the conclusion of what is this guy on about ? Looks like a everyday cycling incident to me with complete numbnut behaviour also on the cyclist part


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

BentMikey said:


> It's funny how the difference between two similar situations like this one can lead to very different feelings. Had the bus driver "asked" to be let out, and you let him out, I bet you would both have felt excellent. This is the other shading of this sort of situation, where the bus just assumes they can go through, and perhaps take advantage of your relative size and vulnerability to push on through, which tends to leave a feeling of annoyance and being taken advantage of.


 Maybe too the driver was already moving out before the cyclist entered the narrow area and thought the cyclist might just give a bit, as it was obvious it would be tight if he didnt, the cyclist chose not to.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> I disagree. Worst offenders seem to be the ones that have just purchased such a device, that being a bike/helmet mounted cam. Strange how we had a fluffy of none dangourous situations submitted on here just after Christmas with the strap-line. 'Look I Nearly Got Killed' or something like it. Only to see the video and then come to the conclusion of what is this guy on about ? Looks like a everyday cycling incident to me with complete numbnut behaviour also on the cyclist part


 
Shows what you know, as I have had mine for well over a year.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> This has got nothing to do with pulling out from a bus stop. I will almost always let a bus out from a bus stop, for all the reasons you have stated.
> 
> There were no cars behind me, so the bus driver could easily have waited until I was clear. A challenging schedule is no excuse for him taking risks with the safety of other road users, and there really wasn't enough room for him to do this safely.


Lets just assume for arguments sake the driver didnt see you at the point he was swinging out, because he was watching the parked car so as not to clip it, then as he is looking ahead he does see you, but he is already out. Could you not look at it another way? You saw a bus was moving out, you had a choice of pushing a tight spot or holding back, why not hold back?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Maybe too the driver was already moving out before the cyclist entered the narrow area and thought the cyclist might just give a bit, as it was obvious it would be tight if he didnt, the cyclist chose not to.


 
Even if he was, he shouldn't have been.
I've already said there wasn't time to completely stop before the cars, and I did pull off out of the way.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Shows what you know, as I have had mine for well over a year.


 Its like fishing gear,you WILL get a bite no matter what


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Even if he was, he shouldn't have been.
> I've already said there wasn't time to completely stop before the cars, and I did pull off out of the way.


 No you didnt, you wobbled a bit and waved at him while still moving passed him


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Lets just assume for arguments sake the driver didnt see you at the point he was swinging out, because he was watching the parked car so as not to clip it, then as he is looking ahead he does see you, but he is already out. Could you not look at it another way? You saw a bus was moving out, you had a choice of pushing a tight spot or holding back, why not hold back?


 
So he wasn't checking that the way ahead was clear before he pulled out? That's great driving.

I have said several times that I slowed considerably, but that there wasn't time to completely stop before the cars. I pulled over and gave him as much room as possible, but I'm rightly annoyed that he put me in that position.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> No you didnt, you wobbled a bit and waved at him while still moving passed him


 
I pulled over to the side as much as possible. I was on the yellow line. I didn't completely stop, you're right.

I can't understand why you're defending such poor driving.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

benb, I think the bus driver was a complete c*nt for what it's worth. 

It wasn't 50/50, you had priority. He either didn't see you, and was simply waiting until the car had cleared the one sided stretch, or saw you and chose to impose his might.

Anyone on here defending the bus driver in order to make a point that they disagree with headcams is twisting the argument for trolling's sake.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> So he wasn't checking that the way ahead was clear before he pulled out? That's great driving.
> 
> I have said several times that I slowed considerably, but that there wasn't time to completely stop before the cars. I pulled over and gave him as much room as possible, but I'm rightly annoyed that he put me in that position.


 YOU put you in that position, and relooking at your catch you didnt slow at all, you carried on knowing full well a bus was swinging out, you had plenty of time to stop if you wanted to, but you didnt want to did you?
You must have seen the bus was swinging out well before you entered the narrow stretch.If you cant stop a bike in the distance you had, you need to get some practice in.
In fact it looked like you increased your speed when you saw the bus pulling out, at about 8 seconds in the vid.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I pulled over to the side as much as possible. I was on the yellow line. I didn't completely stop, you're right.
> 
> I can't understand why you're defending such poor driving.


 It wasnt poor driving really, it was a simple pass of parked cars when there was a gap.He was where he had to be to do that. You were in the right because you were on the right side of the road, but in the wrong of your choice on how you handled this.


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## Wankelschrauben (24 Jan 2012)

Personally, I would have stopped, be it in the car or on bike.

When it comes to a bus, or any other large vehicle, there simply is no arguing.


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## MrHappyCyclist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You werent in the wrong, the driver was. Just instead of making the most of the drivers mistake , you could have done things a different way and had no problem at all. Which is it seems, the way of a lot of cam users. Its Like going fishing, when a bite comes along make the most of it. There has been, and probably still is cam users who do just that, and even makes a situation seem worse just to get a good vid on the tube. Now before you start taking offence, Im not say you are, just you had a choice and you chose to catch that fish.


Sometimes here, it feels like I'm reading the comments below a Daily Mail article.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> benb, I think the bus driver was a complete c*nt for what it's worth.
> 
> It wasn't 50/50, you had priority. He either didn't see you, and was simply waiting until the car had cleared the one sided stretch, or saw you and chose to impose his might.
> 
> Anyone on here defending the bus driver in order to make a point that they disagree with headcams is twisting the argument for trolling's sake.


You seem to be contradicting yourself, saying he was simply waiting for the car to clear, or also he did see you and imposed his might. You call him a complete runt for what its worth too. Seems to me you already dislike him, not knowing him or even not knowing the facts of his decision to move out. So in actual fact your discriminating because its a bus. Mmmmm anger classes needed methinks


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Wankelschrauben said:


> Personally, I would have stopped, be it in the car or on bike.
> 
> When it comes to a bus, or any other large vehicle, there simply is no arguing.


 When you look at the vid, its not actually a do or die situation, he had time to stop, but he decided to carry on. The bus was making reasonable progress. Now if the cyclist was already in the narrow stretch The bus probably wouldnt have moved till he passed.


----------



## Origamist (24 Jan 2012)

Col, you still driving a bus?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Origamist said:


> Col, you still driving a bus?


 Fraid so


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jan 2012)

Hmm, I see - well, hear - the cyclist *slowing down* and I see the bus *accelerating* on the wrong side of the road towards an oncoming cyclist.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> YOU put you in that position, and relooking at your catch you didnt slow at all, you carried on knowing full well a bus was swinging out, you had plenty of time to stop if you wanted to, but you didnt want to did you?
> You must have seen the bus was swinging out well before you entered the narrow stretch.If you cant stop a bike in the distance you had, you need to get some practice in.
> In fact it looked like you increased your speed when you saw the bus pulling out, at about 8 seconds in the vid.


 
You're flat wrong. You can't tell the exact situation from the video, but there wasn't plenty of time to stop. I definitely slowed down, and most certainly didn't increase speed. He is the one that pulled out into the opposite side, not me, so the responsibility for the situation is his.



col said:


> It wasnt poor driving really, it was a simple pass of parked cars when there was a gap.He was where he had to be to do that. You were in the right because you were on the right side of the road, but in the wrong of your choice on how you handled this.


 
If you don't think that pulling out into the opposite side of the road when there is oncoming traffic isn't bad driving, then you are an idiot.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Hmm, I see - well, hear - the cyclist *slowing down* and I see the bus *accelerating* on the wrong side of the road towards an oncoming cyclist.


 Hmm well done


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> You're flat wrong. You can't tell the exact situation from the video, but there wasn't plenty of time to stop. I definitely slowed down, and most certainly didn't increase speed. He is the one that pulled out into the opposite side, not me, so the responsibility for the situation is his.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't think that pulling out into the opposite side of the road when there is oncoming traffic isn't bad driving, then you are an idiot.


 There was no oncoming traffic when he pulled out, yes Iv been called that before too


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You seem to be contradicting yourself, saying he was simply waiting for the car to clear, or also he did see you and imposed his might. You call him a complete runt for what its worth too. Seems to me you already dislike him, not knowing him or even not knowing the facts of his decision to move out. So in actual fact your discriminating because its a bus. Mmmmm anger classes needed methinks


Nothing to do with the fact it's a bus, size aside. Get over yourself!

It was a bit of bully-boy driving. Benb had to change speed or direction as a result of the bus driver's actions, so it was inconsiderate driving. Doesn't matter what he was driving. I totally agree with your assertion that a cyclist should take evasive action to avoid an accident, but that does NOT mean submitting to intimidatory, careless or inconsiderate driving. 

The bus was NOT making reasonable progress, it was waiting for the car to clear. He either failed to spot benb, (careless, insufficient observation) or saw him and decided that he didn't matter, and pulled out anyway (inconsiderate).


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Fraid so


 
Unfortunately for everyone else on the road, judging by what you consider good driving.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> There was no oncoming traffic when he pulled out, yes Iv been called that before too


 
Yes there was - me.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> There was no oncoming traffic when he pulled out, yes Iv been called that before too


There was oncoming traffic. There was a bicycle. 

It's not about who gets to the gap first, it's about who can proceed safely without inconveniencing or endangering others. If you believe the bus driver was in the right in this instance I would suggest you need a bit of driver training.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> There was oncoming traffic. There was a bicycle.
> 
> It's not about who gets to the gap first, it's about who can proceed safely without inconveniencing or endangering others. If you believe the bus driver was in the right in this instance I would suggest you need a bit of driver training.


 Dont you read all the posts. Im saying the cyclist had a choice on how he handled it. He chose the dangerous way.


benb said:


> Yes there was - me.


 When you chose to carry on yes there was


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Unfortunately for everyone else on the road, judging by what you consider good driving.


 I see, so I cant question your choice of action that you publish for all to see , and I presume to be debated, without being called a bad driver? Because your not getting the replies you want. To be expected I suppose


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Dont you read all the posts. Im saying the cyclist had a choice on how he handled it. He chose the dangerous way.
> 
> When you chose to carry on yes there was


 
It was the bus driver that chose to bring the danger to that situation.

I suppose we should all dive out of the way of larger vehicles, perhaps tugging our forelock and apologising for inconveniencing them at all?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> Nothing to do with the fact it's a bus, size aside. Get over yourself!
> 
> It was a bit of bully-boy driving. Benb had to change speed or direction as a result of the bus driver's actions, so it was inconsiderate driving. Doesn't matter what he was driving. I totally agree with your assertion that a cyclist should take evasive action to avoid an accident, but that does NOT mean submitting to intimidatory, careless or inconsiderate driving.
> 
> The bus was NOT making reasonable progress, it was waiting for the car to clear. He either failed to spot benb, (careless, insufficient observation) or saw him and decided that he didn't matter, and pulled out anyway (inconsiderate).


 So which do you think it was?


----------



## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> When you look at the vid, its not actually a do or die situation, he had time to stop, but he decided to carry on.


Oh but Col, it was!  Look at about 12 seconds; he had time to wave to the driver and say thanks. If it were you or I and indeed countless other cyclists, we would have kept both hands on the bars to maintain control and also had the brakes covered.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I see, so I cant question your choice of action that you publish for all to see , and I presume to be debated, without being called a bad driver? Because your not getting the replies you want. To be expected I suppose


 
Not at all - I am perfecntly happy for anyone to question my actions. Don't be so sensitive.

But you said that the bus driver pulling out into oncoming traffic wasn't bad driving, which was what prompted my comment above. If that's what you consider acceptable driving, I'm glad I don't cycle near you.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> It was the bus driver that chose to bring the danger to that situation.
> 
> I suppose we should all dive out of the way of larger vehicles, perhaps tugging our forelock and apologising for inconveniencing them at all?


 Ah it becomes clearer, you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> So which do you think it was?


I have no idea, but it was one or the other. There may have been a third possibility, such as astral travel or alien abduction, but I'm trying to be realistic here. 

What's your point?


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> Oh but Col, it was!  Look at about 12 seconds; he had time to wave to the driver and say thanks. If it were you or I and indeed countless other cyclists, we would have kept both hands on the bars to maintain control and also had the brakes covered.


 
I've already said I shouldn't have taken a hand off the bar. I'm quite happy to hold my hands up (haha) when I have done something wrong.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah it becomes clearer, you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?


So you believe that might is right?


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah it becomes clearer, you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?


 
No. I already said I almost always let buses out from bus stops. This is entirely different, and I object to your position that the bus driver was perfectly justified in bullying me off the road.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Not at all - I am perfecntly happy for anyone to question my actions. Don't be so sensitive.
> 
> But you said that the bus driver pulling out into oncoming traffic wasn't bad driving, which was what prompted my comment above. If that's what you consider acceptable driving, I'm glad I don't cycle near you.


 He wasnt pulling out into oncoming traffic, it was clear for him to pull out. you were no where near when he swung out.
Im sure glad you dont cycle where I work, I would be a nervous wreck in case you wanted more vid footage.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Dont you read all the posts. Im saying the cyclist had a choice on how he handled it. He chose the dangerous way.
> 
> When you chose to carry on yes there was


Yeah, we've done that bit.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> So you believe that might is right?


 Would you like to show how you came to that conclusion?


----------



## akb (24 Jan 2012)

Was this video speeded up? It all looks really quick; both your riding, and the buses speed! If not, you were riding too fast for the conditions IMO, giving you no time to react should a ped walk out or a car pull out from the junction.

The way I see it, the bus pulled out before you even approched the parked cars. Maybe he didnt see you, the conditions look bleak.
My safety is my prime concern (you were both very close at when you passed each other) so I would have hit the brakes and waited for the bus to pass. Would have cost you seconds, and maybe a bit more effort to build your speed up.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> He wasnt pulling out into oncoming traffic, it was clear for him to pull out. you were no where near when he swung out.
> Im sure glad you dont cycle where I work, I would be a nervous wreck in case you wanted more vid footage.


At risk of being repetitive, IT WAS NOT CLEAR FOR HIM TO PULL OUT IF BENB HAD TO SLOW DOWN OR CHANGE COURSE IN ORDER TO PREVENT A COLLISON. 
Clear enough col?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> No. I already said I almost always let buses out from bus stops. This is entirely different, and I object to your position that the bus driver was perfectly justified in bullying me off the road.


 so now he bullied you off the road? lets look at that for one moment


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> At risk of being repetitive, IT WAS NOT CLEAR FOR HIM TO PULL OUT IF BENB HAD TO SLOW DOWN OR CHANGE COURSE IN ORDER TO PREVENT A COLLISON.
> Clear enough col?


 YES IT IS CUBBY, but he was nowhere near the narrow never mind the bus when he pulled out , clear enough?


----------



## Bicycle (24 Jan 2012)

It would have annoyed me too, had I been the cyclist. However, I suspect the bus driver may have been annoyed just as much. I don't want to justify that annoyance, but to mitigate it.

The bus appeared to be waiting for the car ahead of the OP to pass. It may be that the bus had already waited for one car, two cars or a gazillion cars.

I cycle in a town where lack of off-street parking means that one side or another of many streets is heavily parked and there is only room for one vehicle to pass. There is a lot of queuing, waiting, waving, flashing and thanking. It is all very zen.

There are also the occasional bursts of impatience, when a driver appears to say "Fuggit, I've waited for six, it must be my turn".

I do not for one moment dispute that priority does not lie with the vehicle that has to cross the centre line. However, in a situation like this it is rarely down entirely to one party or the other.

If the bus had been waiting (not clear from the footage but not uncommon in these situations) then the driver may have said to himself "OK, after that last car".

If oncoming traffic is a steady drip, drip drip of cars which never quite leave the space for a bus to get through, this can cause a long, long wait both for the bus and anyone stuck behind it.

I aportion no blame here, but many have done as the bus driver does here. Many will justify it. There is a degree to which urban driving and riding are made less abrasive if everyone indulges in a little give and take.

As already stated, I'd be annoyed if I were the cyclist here. If this is anything like my town, I'd also say to myself when reviewing the footage "Fair play. I got cross. Bloody right. Next time I'll let the bus come; he may have been waiting".

I guarantee that you'll get home 20 seconds later but feel hugely less inclined to kick the cat, punch the wall or post footage.

My sympathies nonetheless.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> He wasnt pulling out into oncoming traffic, it was clear for him to pull out. you were no where near when he swung out.
> Im sure glad you dont cycle where I work, I would be a nervous wreck in case you wanted more vid footage.


 
Ah, I see your confusion now. You don't think bicycles are traffic. Or maybe you think they are not legitimate road users when a bus is involved.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Would you like to show how you came to that conclusion?


You have made it perfectly clear that you believe the bus driver was OK to pull out into the road despite the fact that benb had to slow down and change course. You have then told him this when he asked the forelock tugging question. 
_you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?_


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Bicycle said:


> It would have annoyed me too, had I been the cyclist. However, I suspect the bus driver may have been annoyed just as much. I don't want to justify that annoyance, but to mitigate it.
> 
> The bus appeared to be waiting for the car ahead of the OP to pass. It may be that the bus had already waited for one car, two cars or a gazillion cars.
> 
> ...


 Give and take is the answer, I do all the time. It makes for a pleasant day.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Ah, I see your confusion now. You don't think bicycles are traffic. Or maybe you think they are not legitimate road users when a bus is involved.


 I see your little game benj, your trying to make things up and hope no one notices


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

Bicycle said:


> It would have annoyed me too, had I been the cyclist. However, I suspect the bus driver may have been annoyed just as much. I don't want to justify that annoyance, but to mitigate it.
> 
> The bus appeared to be waiting for the car ahead of the OP to pass. It may be that the bus had already waited for one car, two cars or a gazillion cars.
> 
> ...


Good points. We've all been there.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I see your little game benj, your trying to make things up and hope no one notices


 
It's the only conclusion I can draw from your bizarre posts on this thread.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> YES IT IS CUBBY, but he was nowhere near the narrow never mind the bus when he pulled out , clear enough?


 
The fact I was forced to take evasive action (and I was well under the speed limit) means that it was not clear for him to proceed.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> You have made it perfectly clear that you believe the bus driver was OK to pull out into the road despite the fact that benb had to slow down and change course. You have then told him this when he asked the forelock tugging question.
> _you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?_[/quote If i were you Id recheck the vid, you will see when the bus pulls out there was nothing near. The bus didnt make anyone slow or change course when it pulled out, or are you trying to make it sound different to what actually happened?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> It's the only conclusion I can draw from your bizarre posts on this thread.


 Bizzarre? please explain.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

I don't think we've been watching the same video col


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


>


 
By that logic, I can pull out from side roads whenever I want, as long as an oncoming car hasn't actually reached me. It doesn't matter if I force them to slam on their brakes or swerve out of the way.

Col, I'd take some training if I were you, as you obviously don't know what give way means.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Bizzarre? please explain.


 
Your inexplicable notion that the bus driver did nothing wrong.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> The fact I was forced to take evasive action (and I was well under the speed limit) means that it was not clear for him to proceed.


 Oh you mean when you carried on, even though you could see a bus was coming towards you? And that wobble , was that the evasive action? Or was it when you were bullied off the road? could you show me that part please, I seem not be able to find it?


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> YES IT IS CUBBY, but he was nowhere near the narrow never mind the bus when he pulled out , clear enough?


errr, CUBBY is a different person altogether.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Oh you mean when you carried on, even though you could see a bus was coming towards you? And that wobble , was that the evasive action? Or was it when you were bullied off the road? could you show me that part please, I seem not be able to find it?


 
I was forced to slow down and pull almost off the road. That was evasive action, and was caused by the bus driver's bullying tactics.


----------



## BentMikey (24 Jan 2012)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Sometimes here, it feels like I'm reading the comments below a Daily Mail article.


 
I don't recall Col ever making high quality posts, even years ago.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> I have no idea, but it was one or the other. There may have been a third possibility, such as astral travel or alien abduction, but I'm trying to be realistic here.
> 
> What's your point?


 You called him an absolute daffodil, yet you dont know the reason why he pulled out, just seems nasty when you dont know why?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

BentMikey said:


> I don't recall Col ever making high quality posts, even years ago.


 I make good tent pegs though "bent"


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I was forced to slow down and pull almost off the road. That was evasive action, and was caused by the bus driver's bullying tactics.


 Blimey if a bus overtaking parked cars , when there is nothing near to him makes you do this, god I hope Im there with a cam when you actually have something real to complain about


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Ah, I see your confusion now. You don't think bicycles are traffic. Or maybe you think they are not legitimate road users when a bus is involved.


 A mind reader that gets it wrong too, Hope your boss is understanding


----------



## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

I don't get it. The bus driver saw the cyclist and decided to pull out anyway. It does not really matter why, he should not have done. basically if it were a car he would not have done but he did. I think BenB was quite restrained as I think a good many riders would have had far more of a go about it.

My opinion is the bus driver is in the wrong 100% and the OP was right to be annoyed. Another case of someone surrounded by metal bullying their way past a cyclist. As for why did he do it? Who cares, there is no reason that makes it the right thing to do!


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> You have made it perfectly clear that you believe the bus driver was OK to pull out into the road despite the fact that benb had to slow down and change course. You have then told him this when he asked the forelock tugging question.
> _you have a chip on your shoulder with larger vehicles progressing, and you having to slow or stop for them?_


 The twist on words here, is that the bus didnt make anything slow when it pulled out to overtake, your just making that up , tell me what slowed and changed course when the bus pulled out? There was nothing there? Or have I missed something?


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> The twist on words here, is that the bus didnt make anything slow when it pulled out to overtake, your just making that up , tell me what slowed and changed course when the bus pulled out? There was nothing there? Or have I missed something?


 
benb. You missed the bit here benb had to slow down and change course. That was caused by the bus. If you don't get that bit, all the rest of it is pointless.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You called him an absolute ****, yet you dont know the reason why he pulled out, just seems nasty when you dont know why?


No, I just called him an ordinary c*nt because I thought he was behaving like one. You're defending him without knowing what he's like, yet we have more evidence of c*ntness that grounds for beatification.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> I don't get it. The bus driver saw the cyclist and decided to pull out anyway. It does not really matter why, he should not have done. basically if it were a car he would not have done but he did. I think BenB was quite restrained as I think a good many riders would have had far more of a go about it.
> 
> My opinion is the bus driver is in the wrong 100% and the OP was right to be annoyed. Another case of someone surrounded by metal bullying their way past a cyclist. As for why did he do it? Who cares, there is no reason that makes it the right thing to do!


 Ah so your a mind reader too? How do you come to the conclusion what the bus driver saw or could see? Id love to know, as it would stop loads of accidents knowing what others see. But then hang on, assumption is the muther of all farkups, and that seems to be the popular thing to do doesnt it? Although you cant be assuming, as you stated the bus driver saw, so you obviously know dont you.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> The twist on words here, is that the bus didnt make anything slow when it pulled out to overtake, your just making that up , tell me what slowed and changed course when the bus pulled out? There was nothing there? Or have I missed something?


 
Er, me?


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah so your a mind reader too? How do you come to the conclusion what the bus driver saw or could see? Id love to know, as it would stop loads of accidents knowing what others see. But then hang on, assumption is the muther of all ****ups, and that seems to be the popular thing to do doesnt it? Although you cant be assuming, as you stated the bus driver saw, so you obviously know dont you.


But that's the point col. If he didn't see him that's just as inexcusable!


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> benb. You missed the bit here benb had to slow down and change course. That was caused by the bus. If you don't get that bit, all the rest of it is pointless.


 Oh sorry, you mean later on after the bus had pulled out and travelled up the road, when the cyclist decided to carry on too. Ah I see, your mistaking the two different times and places


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah so your a mind reader too? How do you come to the conclusion what the bus driver saw or could see? Id love to know, as it would stop loads of accidents knowing what others see. But then hang on, assumption is the muther of all ****ups, and that seems to be the popular thing to do doesnt it? Although you cant be assuming, as you stated the bus driver saw, so you obviously know dont you.


 
If he did see me, then he's a bad driver for pulling out anyway. If he didn't see me, then, er, he's a bad driver for poor observation.


----------



## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah so your a mind reader too? How do you come to the conclusion what the bus driver saw or could see? Id love to know, as it would stop loads of accidents knowing what others see. But then hang on, assumption is the muther of all ****ups, and that seems to be the popular thing to do doesnt it? Although you cant be assuming, as you stated the bus driver saw, so you obviously know dont you.


 
The line of sight from the cycle to the bus is unobstructed so the driver was certainly ABLE to see the cyclist. The other option is the bus driver did not see the cyclist, in which case he was not paying attention it is still 100% his fault and BenB was still right.


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Oh sorry, you mean later on after the bus had pulled out and travelled up the road, when the cyclist decided to carry on too. Ah I see, your mistaking the two different times and places


 
This really is quite simple, and I can only assume you're being deliberately obtuse. Or trolling.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Er, me?


 No, im sure you were nowhere near when the bus pulled out. You only got near when you met the bus halfway through the narrow.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> The line of sight from the cycle to the bus is unobstructed so the driver was certainly ABLE to see the cyclist. The other option is the bus driver did not see the cyclist, in which case he was not paying attention it is still 100% his fault and BenB was still right.


 So you dont know then? your just guessing and making assumption?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> No, im sure you were nowhere near when the bus pulled out. You only got near when you met the bus halfway through the narrow.


 
I was near enough to have to take evasive action!

The fact is that the road was not clear to proceed. It was obvious that I would be well into the line of parked cars before the bus had time to get back onto the correct side of the road, therefore he was wrong to do it.


----------



## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> This really is quite simple, and I can only assume you're being deliberately obtuse. Or trolling.


Same here. I'm out.


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> This really is quite simple, and I can only assume you're being deliberately obtuse. Or trolling.


I agree it is really quite simple, you could have handled it differently


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> So you dont know then? your just guessing and making assumption?


 
There are 2 options:
1) the bus driver saw me but decided to pull out anyway. Bad driving.
2) the bus driver didn't see me. Bad observation (therefore bad driving)


----------



## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

Behave guys. Col give it a rest !


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> Same here. I'm out.


 How unexpected


----------



## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I agree it is really quite simple, you could have handled it differently


 
Yes that's right, I deliberately exacerbated the situation just to get a good clip.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I was near enough to have to take evasive action!
> 
> The fact is that the road was not clear to proceed. It was obvious that I would be well into the line of parked cars before the bus had time to get back onto the correct side of the road, therefore he was wrong to do it.


 
And even more wrong to persist.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> There are 2 options:
> 1) the bus driver saw me but decided to pull out anyway. Bad driving.
> 2) the bus driver didn't see me. Bad observation (therefore bad driving)


 So you seeing what was unfolding, and deciding to carry on is good cycling?


----------



## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Yes that's right, I deliberately exacerbated the situation just to get a good clip.


 Ok I applaud your honesty, some would defend to the end of the world to deny just this, well done


----------



## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> So you dont know then? your just guessing and making assumption?


I know the line of sight was clear (it is in the video) so I know that the bus driver was in a position where he could see the cyclist. I don't know if he did or not. But either way the fact that he could meant that he was wrong to pull out. The only possible way that the cyclist was not visible to that driver is if he was wearing some sort of urban camouflage or a cloak of invisibility. I am in fact making an assumption that he was not wearing either (which may be my mistake). We could ask him...

Dear OP,

Were you wearing urban camouflage or a cloak of invisibility during this incident?

Regards,

Dan.

If the answer to this is no then using my immense mind reading powers (or looking at the evidence presented in the video) it is clear that the cyclist was right and the bus driver was in the wrong.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> Behave guys. Col give it a rest !


 Sorry, but you know me


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

3 - 8 pages in two hours - all went down hill with Cols trolling !


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> I know the line of sight was clear (it is in the video) so I know that the bus driver was in a position where he could see the cyclist. I don't know if he did or not. But either way the fact that he could meant that he was wrong to pull out. The only possible way that the cyclist was not visible to that driver is if he was wearing some sort of urban camouflage or a cloak of invisibility. I am in fact making an assumption that he was not wearing either (which may be my mistake). We could ask him...
> 
> Dear OP,
> 
> ...


 Well done, very astute of you to admit you could be wrong too.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> 3 - 8 pages in two hours - all went down hill with Cols trolling !


 Im the troll for answering back, I see


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Im the troll for answering back, I see


 
More like winding up !


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## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> It was the bus driver that chose to bring the danger to that situation.
> *Are you having a laugh? You had time to wave and say thanks to the driver.*
> I suppose we should all dive out of the way of larger vehicles, perhaps tugging our forelock and apologising for inconveniencing them at all?


No but we should not put ourselves in danger. You need to change your riding style; you have posted similar incidents' Learn to ride sensibly and stop showboating.


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Well done, very astute of you to admit you could be wrong too.


 
I may give a little to placate the odd person who seems to be arguing about nothing, but please rest assured that I never actually believe that I may be wrong.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> But that's the point col. If he didn't see him that's just as inexcusable!


 I think we have talked about this in other posts, there could be lots of reasons why he might not have seen him, but then the cyclist assumes he has. Which again is a dangerous thing to do. But the cyclist had right on his side and will forge on. But he has admitted he did it to get a film.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> I may give a little to placate the odd person who seems to be arguing about nothing, but please rest assured that I never actually believe that I may be wrong.


 And there it is


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)




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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> More like winding up !


 Not on purpose, it shows how polerised some are on here(which was touched on in another thread), when they refuse to see there is another option/way/choice that can effect the outcome of a lot of incidents, so making them safer.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

So all of that was for my educational benefit was it? In which case let me take this opportunity to thank you sincerely.


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> And there it is


 
LOL, Yup, there it is. I am right and the OP is right and the bus driver is wrong. I knew you would see it my way eventually.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> So all of that was for my educational benefit was it? In which case let me take this opportunity to thank you sincerely.


 You assume Im talking about you, see?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ok I applaud your honesty, some would defend to the end of the world to deny just this, well done


 


col said:


> I think we have talked about this in other posts, there could be lots of reasons why he might not have seen him, but then the cyclist assumes he has. Which again is a dangerous thing to do. But the cyclist had right on his side and will forge on. But he has admitted he did it to get a film.


 
The rolling eyes in my post where I "admitted" doing it to get a film should have made it obvious I was being sarcastic. But then your posts on this have shown that you're a bit dim.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> LOL, Yup, there it is. I am right and the OP is right and the bus driver is wrong. I knew you would see it my way eventually.


You are right in this instance, Iv never said otherwise, why did you think that?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> No but we should not put ourselves in danger. You need to change your riding style; you have posted similar incidents' Learn to ride sensibly and stop showboating.


 
Oh push off, and don't be so sanctimonious. I do ride sensibly, and if you can show me where I was showboating I'd love to see it.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You assume Im talking about you, see?


No, don't flatter yourself, I meant "my benefit" as in what I gained alongside others by taking part in the collective efforts to question your assertions.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> Dear OP,
> 
> Were you wearing urban camouflage or a cloak of invisibility during this incident?
> 
> ...


 
No, I'd left my magic invisibility cloak at home that day.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> The rolling eyes in my post where I "admitted" doing it to get a film should have made it obvious I was being sarcastic. But then your posts on this have shown that you're a bit dim.


 Now your being shy about your honesty. You should be proud your willing to tell everyone of how you wanted a film, so did what you did, bravo sir


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Now your being shy about your honesty. You should be proud your willing to tell everyone of how you wanted a film, so did what you did, bravo sir


 
If that was what I did, then I would say so. The fact is that wearing or not wearing a cam has no effect on my riding style.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> No, don't flatter yourself, I meant "my benefit" as in what I gained alongside others by taking part in the collective efforts to question your assertions.


 How is that flattering myself? you assumed something, I pointed that out.


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> You are right in this instance, Iv never said otherwise, why did you think that?


 
Of your jedi mind games is this one, hmm?


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> If that was what I did, then I would say so. The fact is that wearing or not wearing a cam has no effect on my riding style.


 I believe you, youve shown me how honest you are by admitting your cam film,


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> Of your jedi mind games is this one, hmm?


 No, I think in the melee of different things going on, you just lost track.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I believe you, youve shown me how honest you are by admitting your cam film,


 
Are you stupid? Or are you deliberately misunderstanding me?


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Oh push off, and don't be so sanctimonious. I do ride sensibly, and if you can show me where I was showboating I'd love to see it.


 Check out your vid ,page one post one


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## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

^about 12 seconds in


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> Are you stupid? Or are you deliberately misunderstanding me?


 Oh come on, we are having a debate, and a laugh or two along the way. Iv been called that too


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

Crazy place this. I am all for debate and a laugh, but I don't see what there is to debate. The vid clearly shows the cyclist was right and the bus driver was wrong. What is there to possibly debate about that? The cyclist acted fine and did not cause an accident or anything although he was unsurprisingly annoyed about it. Arguing about this is just arguing for the sake of it no amount of debate will change the fact that the bus driver was in the wrong.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> Crazy place this. I am all for debate and a laugh, but I don't see what there is to debate. The vid clearly shows the cyclist was right and the bus driver was wrong. What is there to possibly debate about that? The cyclist acted fine and did not cause an accident or anything although he was unsurprisingly annoyed about it. Arguing about this is just arguing for the sake of it no amount of debate will change the fact that the bus driver was in the wrong.


 Here we go again ......... He could have handled it differently though.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Here we go again ......... He could have handled it differently though.


 
And the bus driver could have not pulled out, placing me in danger.
I don't accept that I made the situation worse. I have already stated that I slowed down and pulled over as much as possible.

If I had absolutely slammed the anchors on I might have been able to stop before the line of cars.


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## Lurker (24 Jan 2012)

Then again, the OP could have stayed at home and not ventured out. Or ventured out with the protection of a car (if he has a car) - but both seem rather extreme ways to deal with other people's dangerous behaviour. Surely it's better to address the bus driver's behaviour, as the person who introduced the danger in this situation - unless you think it good to accept bullying, of course....


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Oh come on, we are having a debate, and a laugh or two along the way. Iv been called that too


 
So you realise that I didn't deliberately exacerbate the situation to get a good clip? Thanks.

You know, I'm quite a fan of arguing, but only when both sides have a decent argument to make. I do think you're arguing with me just for the sake of it, and know full well that the bus driver shouldn't have pulled out.


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Here we go again ......... He could have handled it differently though.


 
He could have done many things, but the outcome was fine so why would you want to worry about how he handled it? The cyclist did nothing wrong all through the vid and I thought was quite restrained in his words and gestures! Still a debate about nothing to be honest.


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## Andrew_P (24 Jan 2012)

Would any of you really have predicted the bus pulling out? And if You had not predicted it would you really have stopped right in the pinch spot?


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> He could have done many things, but the outcome was fine so why would you want to worry about how he handled it? The cyclist did nothing wrong all through the vid and I thought was quite restrained in his words and gestures! Still a debate about nothing to be honest.


 So why defend it if its nothing?


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

LOCO said:


> Would any of you really have predicted the bus pulling out? And if You had not predicted it would you really have stopped right in the pinch spot?


 No prediction needed, it was the only thing there.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> So you realise that I didn't deliberately exacerbate the situation to get a good clip? Thanks.
> 
> You know, I'm quite a fan of arguing, but only when both sides have a decent argument to make. I do think you're arguing with me just for the sake of it, and know full well that the bus driver shouldn't have pulled out.


 The bus did what it did, I would have done things difrently had I come across this cycling.


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## gaz (24 Jan 2012)

Have some people not got work to do? 8 pages of rubbish posted this morning.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Lurker said:


> Then again, the OP could have stayed at home and not ventured out. Or ventured out with the protection of a car (if he has a car) - but both seem rather extreme ways to deal with other people's dangerous behaviour. Surely it's better to address the bus driver's behaviour, as the person who introduced the danger in this situation - unless you think it good to accept bullying, of course....


 Touche


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Have some people not got work to do? 8 pages of rubbish posted this morning.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> And the bus driver could have not pulled out, placing me in danger.
> I don't accept that I made the situation worse. I have already stated that I slowed down and pulled over as much as possible.
> 
> If I had absolutely slammed the anchors on I might have been able to stop before the line of cars.


 Ah but you didnt slow as much as possible, you didnt slow much at all, untill nearly next to the bus coming the other way


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Have some people not got work to do? 8 pages of rubbish posted this morning.


 
Nope, no work for me today!


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> Nope, no work for me today!


 Nor I


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (24 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Have some people not got work to do? 8 pages of rubbish posted this morning.


 
Just what i was thinking.
Nice to see several people mirroring my views about slowing down when appropriate.

People fall into a false sense of security when they drive/ride for months/years/decades with no
problems, then one day it all goes *bang*

Just remember, a cycle helmet will not stop you landing on your front teeth and breaking your neck.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> Just what i was thinking.
> Nice to see several people mirroring my views about slowing down when appropriate.
> 
> People fall into a false sense of security when they drive/ride for months/years/decades with no
> ...


 Checking tyre pressure could help?


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## Dan_h (24 Jan 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> Just what i was thinking.
> 
> Just remember, a cycle helmet will not stop you landing on your front teeth and breaking your neck.


 
LOL, So it is true, every cycling debate WILL always end up being about helmets!


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## gaz (24 Jan 2012)

Wide angle lenses don't show how much a cyclist slowed down. I noticed this last night with a video i'm making of an old incident. I added a speedo with data taken from my GPS unit and i'm surprised how much I slowed down and when I started.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ah but you didnt slow as much as possible, you didnt slow much at all, untill nearly next to the bus coming the other way


 
I slowed enough to avoid a collision.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Have some people not got work to do? 8 pages of rubbish posted this morning.








http://xkcd.com/386/


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I slowed enough to avoid a collision.


 There was no approaching collision, you didnt slow enough to not have a collision that wasnt going to happen while passing an oncoming vehicle,


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> http://xkcd.com/386/


 This is good, Ill pass on the offer though


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (24 Jan 2012)

What if you're an absolute pro on a mountain bike or bmx and can go from the middle of the road
to the pavement in the blink of an eye?

How about holding your line and playing chicken with that bus, see if he'd panic and brake?

(Just throwing more crap into this thread ... see if we can keep it going, etc).


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

gaz said:


> Wide angle lenses don't show how much a cyclist slowed down. I noticed this last night with a video i'm making of an old incident. I added a speedo with data taken from my GPS unit and i'm surprised how much I slowed down and when I started.


 I go on how fast the scenery changes in speed as passing, seems to be a good way of seeing speed changes?


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I go on how fast the scenery changes in speed as passing, seems to be a good way of seeing speed changes?


 
Hmmm? Somewhere i have a video of me ramming a tree ... the scenery stops moving in that.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> What if you're an absolute pro on a mountain bike or bmx and can go from the middle of the road
> to the pavement in the blink of an eye?
> 
> How about holding your line and playing chicken with that bus, see if he'd panic and brake?
> ...


 That was actually what kids have done to me on dark night shifts. They headed straight for me in the middle of my lane, came from nowhere and had the balls of a baboon, not giving at all.


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## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

Dan_h said:


> Crazy place this. I am all for debate and a laugh, but I don't see what there is to debate. The vid clearly shows the cyclist was right and the bus driver was wrong. What is there to possibly debate about that? The cyclist acted fine and did not cause an accident or anything although he was unsurprisingly annoyed about it. Arguing about this is just arguing for the sake of it no amount of debate will change the fact that the bus driver was in the wrong.


Are you and I watching the same video? Look at it this way:-
You are the cyclist and have 'priority', you have plenty of time to adjust speed and course so that the bus passes you without any camera footage - would you do that or would you enginerr a youtube moment complete with a showboating arm wave?
Now put yourself in the bus driver's seat and I will let you into a little secret here - driving a bus is different to driving a car - a lot different! You have adjusted your speed and moved as far over to your left as possible, the approaching cyclist gives you a cheery wave as if to say 'It's OK, I have enough room". What more can you, as the bus driver, do?


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> There was no approaching collision, you didnt slow enough to not have a collision that wasnt going to happen while passing an oncoming vehicle,


 
I have no idea what you're saying here. The words are English, but the sentence is gibberish.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I have no idea what you're saying here. The words are English, but the sentence is gibberish.


 
Why not google "sir stanley unwin".


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

mr_hippo said:


> Are you and I watching the same video? Look at it this way:-
> You are the cyclist and have 'priority', you have plenty of time to adjust speed and course so that the bus passes you without any camera footage - would you do that or would you enginerr a youtube moment complete with a showboating arm wave?
> Now put yourself in the bus driver's seat and I will let you into a little secret here - driving a bus is different to driving a car - a lot different! You have adjusted your speed and moved as far over to your left as possible, the approaching cyclist gives you a cheery wave as if to say 'It's OK, I have enough room". *What more can you, as the bus driver, do*?


 
I didn't engineer anything. If I had not had my camera on, I would have behaved in exactly the same way. The arm wasn't showboating, it was a spur of the moment reaction borne from annoyance towards the driver.

And the bolded section? What he could have done is not to pull out onto the opposite side of the road when there's oncoming traffic. Pretty basic driving skills, I would say.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (24 Jan 2012)

Right ... back to work for me.

I expect another 24+ posts by the time i log in this evening.........


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I have no idea what you're saying here. The words are English, but the sentence is gibberish.


 Ok lets take it slow. There was no approaching collision. You didnt slow enough to not have a collision, that wasnt going to happen, while passing an oncoming vehicle.


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> Right ... back to work for me.
> 
> I expect another 24+ posts by the time i log in this evening.........


 
Not if it gets locked !  Behave folks !


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I didn't engineer anything. If I had not had my camera on, I would have behaved in exactly the same way. The arm wasn't showboating, it was a spur of the moment reaction borne from annoyance towards the driver.
> 
> And the bolded section? What he could have done is not to pull out onto the opposite side of the road when there's oncoming traffic. Pretty basic driving skills, I would say.


 Doesnt look like you slow at all, watched it a few times now and just makes me think you wanted confrontation.


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

[QUOTE 1694479, member: 45"]My view-


Bus shouldn't have pulled out.
Driving a bus isn't easy. You spend your day wanting to rejoin traffic and being stopped by impatient people, when all you're trying to do is get people around on a more practical form of transport than a driver-only car.
We should give buses more leeway than other forms of transport for this reason (as recognised by the HC).
It's not really worth getting in a flap about.
There have historically always been at least a couple of posters at any one time who leap on ambiguous threads like these, dribble streaming from the corners of their mouth, and successfully derail, elongate and frustrate any potential for a reasonable discussion.
See my sig line.
[/quote]

You have proof of dribble streaming ?


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> Not if it gets locked !  Behave folks !


 Refereeeeeee, its all good, no personal attacks


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

Panto season has just finished you know. Withdrawl symptoms ?

Oh yes it has....

Oh no it hasn't......


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Doesnt look like you slow at all, watched it a few times now and just makes me think you wanted confrontation.


 
You're wrong.


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## benb (24 Jan 2012)

col said:


> Ok lets take it slow. There was no approaching collision. You didnt slow enough to not have a collision, that wasnt going to happen, while passing an oncoming vehicle.


 
So if I had carried on at full speed and not altered my path, there would not have been a collision? Sure about that?


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## mr_hippo (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> I didn't engineer anything. If I had not had my camera on, *I would have behaved in exactly the same way*. The arm wasn't showboating, it was a spur of the moment reaction borne from annoyance towards the driver.
> *As your other videos show!*
> And the bolded section? What he could have done is not to pull out onto the opposite side of the road when there's oncoming traffic. Pretty basic driving skills, I would say.


The question was not `What he...' but 'What you...`


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

Don't rise to it folks !


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> You're wrong.


 Thats the way it looks?


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## BentMikey (24 Jan 2012)

Honestly, Shaun, do you not care at all about your forum? How many of us are going to stay around a place whilst you allow behaviour like Col's on this topic? FFS!


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## col (24 Jan 2012)

BentMikey said:


> Honestly, Shaun, do you not care at all about your forum? How many of us are going to stay around a place whilst you allow behaviour like Col's on this topic? FFS!


 Oh dear, your dislike for me has shown itself before, but never like this. Why post this when you can pm him? Oh I see, you wanted your feelings shown. If you dont like something on a thread dont read it. You havnt been part of this thread for a long time, so why does it anger you? Just dont read, simple.


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## Bicycle (24 Jan 2012)

benb said:


> The fact I was forced to take evasive action (*and I was well under the speed limit*) means that it was not clear for him to proceed.


 
1. My apologies in advance if my tone or content cause offence.
2. As already stated, I would have been annoyed too, if I were the cyclist (with caveats).
3. The cyclist has my sympathy anyway.
4. Now the part that may make the apology necessary:

First, in the quoted passage above, BenB brings the speed limit into the equation. I am not writing this as a tub-thumper, but I have lost count of the number of car drivers who've said to me after an incident "I was well under the speed limit". It's a limit, not a target speed. I see the point you were making, but even on a bicycle (with no legal requirement to comply) the *"I was under the speed limit"* argument can hit all the wrong notes.

Secondly, I think there may be a connection here to a thread about the benefit of experience driving and riding other vehicles. Had the cyclist in the video had some experience driving larger, rigid vehicles around urban environments, I pretty much guarantee he would have spotted the situation the bus was in, spotted the indicator, seen that it was waiting and waved it on.

He didn't have to. He had every right to sail on in the confidence that he had priority, which he did. Fair enough.

That's not to say that *everyone* who cycles and drives trucks/buses is lovely (our experiences every day tell us that there are some beastly road users)... But I'm pretty certain that someone who knew what it was like to negotiate those streets in a 52-seat bus would have relented.

BenB, if you are a PSV or HGV driver, I partially withdraw that potentially incendiary post.


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## fossyant (24 Jan 2012)

Cool off time for all.

Locked for now !


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