# Standard pedals orClipless???



## Blue Scouser85 (24 May 2011)

Hello All!

I'm relatively new to MTB'ing and have only been out properly once, up in the peaks! Whilst I was out I did have to put my feet down a fair bit and also had to get off the bike in one section to walk down, but to be fair so did one of the lads who has been doing this for a while, rock was too steep and too wet, the guy who went down took a nice tumble off the edge, lucky for him a gorse bush saved him and his bike haha

Sorry to stray off, yeah if I wear clipless will that mean more falls with the bike on top of me, or will if force me to get better and just cycle on? I have used clipless on the road and they do generate more power and I find them more comfortable for feet position, just concerned that out on the hills I might bite off more than I can chew with them?


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## Cubist (24 May 2011)

There are advantages to clipless pedals while off roading. I ride clipless and have done more or less since I started. The trick is to be able to unclip subconsciously, so that being attached to the bike doesn't become a disadvantage. Hops, step ups, step downs, ruts, steep downhills all are better (for me) if I'm clipped in, and not likely to slip off the pedals.

Give it a go, and see whether you like it. For some the worry of clipless moments puts them off riding technical features, and so it's best to develop an amount of confidence before you do.


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## GrasB (24 May 2011)

There's no reason not to especially if you've developed a really good pedal motion (I had no end of foot slips with flat pedals as I almost completely unload the pedal on the upstroke). With SPDs I find I can lift the bike with my feet which has allowed me to get out of ruts *sideways* & lift the back wheel up to very precisely place it where I wanted.

As Cubist said it's a case of suck it & see. One thing to keep in mind is don't try using road cleats on your MTB for testing out.


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## Ticktockmy (24 May 2011)

Clipless, gives you more power to the rear wheel when you want it, and as GrasB has said it allows you more control of the bike, being more able to lift and bounce the bike about the trail. Most clipless moment happen do to a slip of memory, and you forget to un-clip, can be so embrassing.


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

I ride clipless and have done since I cannot remember. Now taking slightly off topic is it not amazing what trials riders can do on flats, bunny hop 3 feet and all that stuff.


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## MacB (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I ride clipless and have done since I cannot remember. Now taking slightly off topic is it not amazing what trials riders can do on flats, bunny hop 3 feet and all that stuff.



yep, clipless are sort of like stabilisers for the feet, once you can ride properly you don't need them anymore


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## Blue Scouser85 (24 May 2011)

so clipless pedals, the best ones to go for are the ones you can use with or without the spd shoes???


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## Norm (24 May 2011)

"best" is personal choice and will be affected by many factors. I have the clip/flat pedals on my commuter but the road bike just has clips, as I am more likely to be slowed or stopped on the commuter. My MTB has flats.


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

MacB, could you expand on that a bit please. I am sure the point has gone right over my head.


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## Zoiders (24 May 2011)

Clipless with a cage/platform offers the best of both world's so you can ride unclipped in technical sections where a stall could easily turn into a bail out.

If you only pootle on the less dicey sections or fire road then you will not have a problem with stand alone SPD's though.


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

I prefer to be fully clipped in on technical sections, no chance of slipping off the pedal and more control through the bike.


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## Zoiders (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I prefer to be fully clipped in on technical sections, no chance of slipping off the pedal and more control through the bike.


It depends on how you define technical.

Trials riders tend not to ride clipped in either, some stuff of course being clipped in is better, especialy single track, on the other hand some obstacles I have ridden you want to unclip before hand, a good caged platform SPD pedal is not to be sniffed at.

Best of both worlds.


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## Blue Scouser85 (24 May 2011)

Zoiders said:


> It depends on how you define technical.
> 
> Trials riders tend not to ride clipped in either, some stuff of course being clipped in is better, especialy single track, on the other hand some obstacles I have ridden you want to unclip before hand, a good caged platform SPD pedal is not to be sniffed at.
> 
> Best of both worlds.




Yeah thats what i think i'm going to get, i've seen the shimano ones with a resin like cage around them think they're m424's


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

In all my years of racing cross and mountain bike I have never seen anyone on double sided pedals, a lot now are on egg beaters and the like. Trials riders tend to ride on flat pedals with no clip in attachment, that said anyone want to buy a nice trials bike as we have one here for sale.


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## Cubist (24 May 2011)

Blue Scouser85 said:


> Yeah thats what i think i'm going to get, i've seen the shimano ones with a resin like cage around them think they're m424's


Resin cages can be fragile I'm told. 

These are a bit more money, but shed mud better with an anodised alu surround.
http://www.chainreac...px?ModelID=4516








I have these for trail riding:
http://www.chainreac...spx?ModelID=771




and they have pop-up spd section for faster/easier engagement.


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## GrasB (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> MacB said:
> 
> 
> > yep, clipless are sort of like stabilisers for the feet, once you can ride properly you don't need them anymore
> ...


You see MacB here says that people who's pedal motion which on the upstroke imparts less than 200 grams of downwards pressure on the pedal during parts of the upstroke (because they have a very efficient pedalling motion & actually pedal in circles rather than push down on the pedals to varying degrees) don't have any coordination & can't cycle properly.


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## Cubist (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> MacB, could you expand on that a bit please. I am sure the point has gone right over my head.


MacB is a bit of a heretic when it comes to clipless pedals.




He has all sorts of evidence and arguments that fly in the face of using them, saying, for example that they don't improve pedal efficiency, and those of us that use them have been effectively suckered into parting with our hard earned cash by the marketing hype. It hasn't quite reached helmet thread standards though....he'll be along in a minute with a link to an article that he once read that agrees with everything he's saying. .......






......and we all know it's really 'cos he's scared of falling off and hurting himself!


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

Surely being clipped into SPD allows you to pull up as well as push down, now that one will get things going. Mind you I hear there are still people on 5 speed who are convinced 6 will never catch on, index levers no way 

Have fun and keep pedalling.


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## MacB (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> MacB, could you expand on that a bit please. I am sure the point has gone right over my head.



yep, I think you need armbands in a swimming pool as well


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## Silver Fox (24 May 2011)

It's a matter of choice and what *you *feel comfortable with.

I've ridden both but my preference is flats. A set of good pedals, like Burgtec Penthouse Flats and FiveTen shoes and you're away.

Works for me.


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

I suppose it depends on what type of riding you intend to do as well, I do not know of any racing cyclist using flats, I think Kelly was the last to use them and he retired in 1994. 

You takes your choice wooden rims or carbon fibre, black and white tv or colour.

Personally I feel and so do all professional riders that being clipped into something like SPD is the way to go. No slipping and sliding on a wet pedal.


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## Cubist (24 May 2011)

Yep, definitely individual choice. 

(MacB's tugging your wires, don't let yourself be drawn in.



)


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## Norm (24 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I suppose it depends on what type of riding you intend to do as well, I do not know of any racing cyclist using flats, I think Kelly was the last to use them and he retired in 1994.
> 
> You takes your choice wooden rims or carbon fibre, black and white tv or colour.
> 
> Personally I feel and so do all professional riders that being clipped into something like SPD is the way to go. No slipping and sliding on a wet pedal.


Which is very interesting, but of limited relevance to the question which was about casual (as opposed to competitive) MTB riding rather than road racing.


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

Lots of professional cross country MTB riders about, none of them ride flats I bet, now why would that be?


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## MacB (25 May 2011)

screenman said:


> Lots of *professional* cross country MTB riders about, none of them ride flats I bet, now why would that be?



I'm going to take a wild stab at the reason being the highlighted word - now, much as I can vibrantly feel your admiration over the screen, I can assure you I'm about as far from professional as it's possible for a cyclist to be. I also use the combo mentioned by Silver Fox, pinned platforms and stealth rubber soled footwear. I don't suffer from my feet slipping and I don't lack power other than for the obvious fitness reasons - or I should say the power I can lay down is adequate for my needs.

I like that I can ride in any footwear and I'm competent enough to be able to make sure my feet stay on the pedals. Don't feel bad that you can't do the same but try to get beyond 'hating'


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

I sometimes ride flats popping up to the shops and things like that, however should we stand in the path of progress and maybe that is what the OP wants to do.

How much rough off road do you do trying to keep up with friends on the technical sections, do you intend to progress, do you like new or newer technology, are you a flat cap a slippers brigade. All questions that maybe we should have asked.


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## Alembicbassman (25 May 2011)

I have these Shimano SPD M324

Flat on one side, spd on the other.


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## deaksie (25 May 2011)

I always ride basic shimano clipless, no cage, no messing about, just works for me and I miss them if I ride flat pedals. you can still stand on the clipless pedals if you have to for a short time but I find I'm clipped in more and more. 
I'm 100% mtb, I ride all year round, all terrain, mainly off road, regardless of weather - what's wet weather gear for unless you ride when it's hailing?
good luck and enjoy your riding


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## MacB (25 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I sometimes ride flats popping up to the shops and things like that, however should we stand in the path of progress and maybe that is what the OP wants to do.
> 
> How much rough off road do you do trying to keep up with friends on the technical sections, do you intend to progress, do you like new or newer technology, are you a flat cap a slippers brigade. All questions that maybe we should have asked.



not standing in the way of anything, merely supplying an alternate view rather than the, clipless best thing since sliced bread night and day difference you'll suddenly improve by 100mph and clipless moments are only funny never painful or dangerous....... A little reading on the net will turn up plenty of MTBers that have moved back from clipless to flat, you'll also find some that vary between the two depending on what they're doing. My own reading would indicate that those moving back to, or sticking with, flats tend to be those just doing it for fun. Possibly riding with like minded people or taking their families out on trails etc. Basically an entire world that exists outside of the racing fraternity.

Friends? what are these things you speak of?

I think you'll be able to class me as the long ride, multi surface, avoiding anything to steep or tricky, type.

The OP should go with what they want based on their needs and info gleaned, I'm just broadening the amount of info


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## Andy_R (25 May 2011)

I think someone's using one of these http://fish.shimano-...e_trolling.html


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## Norm (25 May 2011)

Andy_R said:


> I think someone's using one of these http://fish.shimano-...e_trolling.html


 Do you feel the need to insult someone because they have a different opinion? 

There's all sorts of armchair philosophy you could throw at that stance with the help of a quick Google.


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

The OP uses clipless on the road and finds them comfortable, taking from that I would say he will quickly find that of road spd style are a benefit.


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## MacB (25 May 2011)

To be fair I don't feel remotely insulted, it's the price of the dawning realisation, in others, that maybe they could be just that teensy, tiny, little bit gullible. But they've spent the money and 'feel' the power, so the obvious solution is to defend their position by attacking


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## Andy_R (25 May 2011)

Norm said:


> Do you feel the need to insult someone because they have a different opinion?
> 
> There's all sorts of armchair philosophy you could throw at that stance with the help of a quick Google.



sense of humour failure there then Norm if you think that was an insult..... 

And as for "defend their position by attacking" then is "yep, clipless are sort of like stabilisers for the feet, once you can ride properly you don't need them anymore"a defence of your position or an attack, as it seems more of an insult.


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

I had a guy here yesterday for training that said he did not like fried egg sandwiches, so we talked him into trying one he loved them. Turns out he had never had one before, how on earth can you dislike something and say it in no good without trying it.


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## Andy_R (25 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I had a guy here yesterday for training that said he did not like fried egg sandwiches, so we talked him into trying one he loved them. Turns out he had never had one before, how on earth can you dislike something and say it in no good without trying it.



I hate eggs....eugh, they come out of chickens bottoms for gods sake...never going to get me to try one....


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## Norm (25 May 2011)

Andy_R said:


> I hate eggs....eugh, they come out of chickens bottoms for gods sake...never going to get me to try one....


Indeed. I kinda wonder who it was that first looked at a chicken and thought "I'm going to eat the first thing that vcomes out of it's bottom."


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## Andy_R (25 May 2011)

Norm said:


> Indeed. I kinda wonder who it was that first looked at a chicken and thought "I'm going to eat the first thing that vcomes out of it's bottom."


just as well it was an egg then.......we could all have ended up have sh*t sandwiches on a saturday morning!


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## lukesdad (25 May 2011)

Clipless for sure, But you ll still have shunts when you cant get your feet. Thats mtbing all part of the fun.


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## Bicycle (25 May 2011)

I'd say try them and see which you prefer.

It'll take you a while to decide, by which time you'll have shelled out for pedals and cleated shoes.

I prefer to ride clipless, but many don't.

My thoughts on using them off road:

1. Climbing with limited traction is much easier when you can use the whole rotation of the pedal to apply even (ish) pressure. There's that horrible off-road climb moment when you shove a pedal too hard and break traction in the granny gear... and you can't get started again on the gradient. That seems to happen a lot less with clipless pedals (Eggbeaters in my case).

2. I've chucked bikes down the road (or path or similar) many times while riding clipless. My feet have never been attached to the pedals by the time I've stopped moving. I wouldn't worry about staying attached. You just, like, kinda don't...


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## Cubist (25 May 2011)

MacB said:


> <BR>I think you'll be able to class me as the long ride, multi surface, avoiding anything to steep or tricky, type.<BR><BR>The OP should go with what they want based on their needs and info gleaned, I'm just broadening the amount of info <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://www.cyclechat.net/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/whistling.gif"><BR>


<BR><BR><BR>screenman, FFS read this bit. MacB is pointing out that for the type of riding he does, he doesn't think clipless will be an advantage. <BR><BR> It doesn't look like he spends much time in rock gardens or bermed scree chutes. <BR><BR>Now, he also has told you that if you want to, make your own mind up -you have a choice.<BR><BR>I ride all the time in SPDs, but have access to some flatties which I will use to session some tricky features before taking the plunge. <BR><BR>Get both.


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

My mind is made up, spd clipless all the time, more efficient and safer. Now the old flatties are alright for a poodle to the shop IMHO, so I would not throw them, but off road or anything sporty the SPD wind everytime.

Flat pedals, rod brakes, solid tyres, scaffold style tubing, times move on.


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## MacB (25 May 2011)

screenman said:


> My mind is made up, spd clipless all the time, more efficient and safer. Now the old flatties are alright for a poodle to the shop IMHO, so I would not throw them, but off road or anything sporty the SPD wind everytime.
> 
> Flat pedals, rod brakes, solid tyres, scaffold style tubing, times move on.



It's strange but I feel a sudden urge to buy a flat cap to cycle in


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## Zoiders (25 May 2011)

The jist of all this seems to be that some people think "I should use a SPD/Egg beater only because thats what the pro's use for racing"

XC racing has very little in common with most single track, all day riding in wilderness areas and all mountain riding, if you want to replicate road racing on a MTB then knock yourself out, I will quite happily keep using platform/SPD pedals off road as it's got not that much in common with road racing or even the practice of just doing endless loops on fire roads that gets passed of as "mountain biking". If you worry about your foot slipping off all the time then maybe it's time to try flats for a while and work on your technical skills as being to shift your foot position around and your weight on the pedals as and when you need it is all part of the fun and the challenge.

When I ride with my mates every now and then we come across the chain gangs on the fire roads and basic trails just grinding away with the HRM on the go while using high end race kit and wearing lycra and every single one of them looks bored to death.


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## screenman (25 May 2011)

I rode for 20 years+ on flats before going over to SPD in about 1991 or something like, so I have as you see experienced both for quite a while.

The most important thing is to keep pedaling and have fun.


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## lukesdad (25 May 2011)

Oi this isnt commuting we re here to have fun remember ?


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