# Should mirrors be mandatory?



## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

Another thread got me thinking about the use of mirrors. I don't see very many bikes that have mirrors on them, particularly road bikes. I do have one of the bar end mirrors on my road bike, which is very unobtrusive, and I find it to be very useful, particularly in town. Do you use a mirror? Mirrors are mandatory on every other vehicle, why not bikes?


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## Nigel-YZ1 (14 Nov 2017)

No.


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## Markymark (14 Nov 2017)

No


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## Fab Foodie (14 Nov 2017)

Nay, nay, and thrice nay.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (14 Nov 2017)

No.


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## Racing roadkill (14 Nov 2017)

Useless at any sort of speed, in the dark, if it’s foggy or raining, or a bit cold, so no.


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## Tim Hall (14 Nov 2017)

No I don't use one*. No they should be mandatory.

* I do on my recumbent. That's because looking over my should whilst lying down doesn't give much useful information.


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> Useless at any sort of speed, in the dark, if it’s foggy or raining, or a bit cold, so no.



From my own experience, I would have to disagree


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

No they shouldn't, No I don't and they're not mandatory on bikes because you have an unobstructed direct rear view (well, maybe unless you're using a full face helmet for road cycling). Looking over your shoulder will always be better than a vibration-affected little mirror.


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> No they shouldn't, No I don't and they're not mandatory on bikes because you have an unobstructed direct rear view (well, maybe unless you're using a full face helmet for road cycling). Looking over your shoulder will always be better than a vibration-affected little mirror.



Once again, from my own experience, I would have to disagree.


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## DRHysted (14 Nov 2017)

Tried them, didn’t get on with them. 
So on this one I’m out.


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## broadway (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> No they shouldn't, No I don't and they're not mandatory on bikes because you have an unobstructed direct rear view (well, maybe unless you're using a full face helmet for road cycling). Looking over your shoulder will always be better than a vibration-affected little mirror.



Most cyclists I see moving around obstructions don't take advantage of the "unobstructed direct rear" view. My "vibration-affected little mirror" is more than adequate to give a good idea of what is behind me and also allows me to judge when the best time to do a shoulder check if one is required.


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## Tin Pot (14 Nov 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Another thread got me thinking about the use of mirrors. I don't see very many bikes that have mirrors on them, particularly road bikes. I do have one of the bar end mirrors on my road bike, which is very unobtrusive, and I find it to be very useful, particularly in town. Do you use a mirror? Mirrors are mandatory on every other vehicle, why not bikes?



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


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## LewisLondon (14 Nov 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Once again, from my own experience, I would have to disagree.



Going to expand on this?


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## User32269 (14 Nov 2017)

Can see why lights are mandatory, but don't want anything else made a legal requirement for my bike. 
One of the joys of cycling is the freedom it gives; think it may be a slippery slope once something else is made compulsory? Helmets, hi viz, registration plates? Nah.


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## Tin Pot (14 Nov 2017)

Mirrors on old aged pensioners, that should be compulsory.

I'm tired of scaring the crap out of them as I walk past.


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## Alan O (14 Nov 2017)

As everyone else says, no, absolutely not mandatory. They might add a little extra in the viewing department, but as a bicycle offers the best visibility of just about any form of road transport, they're really not needed the way they are in a car (with its very limited vision) or even on a motorcycle (wearing a full face helmet).


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## NickNick (14 Nov 2017)

I think if anything mandatory mirrors could drive quite a dangerous behavioural change. My gut feel is that over time you would have more cyclists not looking over their shoulder as they would assume their legally enforced mirrors are sufficient as after all "cars have mirrors and drivers don't need to look over their shoulder".


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

NickNick said:


> I think if anything mandatory mirrors could drive quite a dangerous behavioural change. My gut feel is that over time you would have more cyclists not looking over their shoulder as they would assume their legally enforced mirrors are sufficient as after all "cars have mirrors and drivers don't need to look over their shoulder".


 Drivers are still meant to look over their shoulder in some situations, even though far too many don't!


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## Tin Pot (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Drivers are still meant to look over their shoulder in some situations, even though far too many don't!


Looking away from the phone would be a start.


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## Sixmile (14 Nov 2017)

I used a Zefal Spy mirror during our summer tour with the trailer. I found it very useful in lighter traffic and trying to find how far my wife was behind. I definitely shoulder checked a lot less.

I have since lost the little clip for it and haven't used it since but definitely can see a benefit to them.


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## NickNick (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Drivers are still meant to look over their shoulder in some situations, even though far too many don't!


I realise that, but very few drivers do and it was part of the point I was making (although probably not very clearly tbf)


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## pawl (14 Nov 2017)

Some years ago I took the advanced motorcycle test and was always advised to do the life saver,the glance over the shoulder.Dont rely on the mirrors 

What will be the next thing considered for legislation.I understand hi vis is being considered.No.So disagre re mirrors
What will be next? Disc brakes.


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

broadway said:


> Most cyclists I see moving around obstructions don't take advantage of the "unobstructed direct rear" view. My "vibration-affected little mirror" is more than adequate to give a good idea of what is behind me and also allows me to judge when the best time to do a shoulder check if one is required.


So why would you think most cyclists would use mirrors even if they had them? Wouldn't mirrors become another thing like bells or pedal reflectors that loads of cyclists don't bother with regardless of any laws and so manufacturers would supply the cheapest crap or find a loophole? Maybe your mirror is adequate but you do realise that there's plenty on the market which aren't, don't you?

And why do you need a mirror "to judge when the best time to do a shoulder check" is? Doesn't it depend more on what's happening in front of you and whether you can probably safely look away from it for a fraction of a second?


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## arch684 (14 Nov 2017)

User3094 said:


> Only for the elderly.


So what age do you become elderly ? I'm 67 and i would not even think about putting a mirror on any of my bikes


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## Lonestar (14 Nov 2017)

No.


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## MontyVeda (14 Nov 2017)

No


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## User32269 (14 Nov 2017)

You are officially elderly when the telly channels need reinstalling every single time you've touched the remote.


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## Alan O (14 Nov 2017)

arch684 said:


> So what age do you become elderly ? I'm 67 and i would not even think about putting a mirror on any of my bikes


Elderly is defined as the age at which you start thinking about putting a mirror on your bike


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## arch684 (14 Nov 2017)

User said:


> I think @User3094 was referring to elderly pedestrians.....


I don't care he needs reported i just cant remember who to report him to


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

LewisLondon said:


> Going to expand on this?



First I should say that I always shoulder check. I use the mirror sort of as an advance warning system. Glance at the mirror from time to time just to stay cognizant of what's back there. Then when I go to shoulder check, I'm already aware that there is a vehicle behind me. In town or out on the roads, cars can be seen from a long ways off. It's extremely useful when paceline riding with a group. The last rider is responsible for calling 'car back', and when I am at the back I use my mirror to keep an eye on the road.


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Doesn't it depend more on what's happening in front of you and whether you can probably safely look away from it for a fraction of a second?



Only you can answer that. Get one and try it. If I was doing a lot of city and commuting rides, I would have motorcycle type mirrors on my bike


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

pawl said:


> Some years ago I took the advanced motorcycle test and was always advised to do the life saver,the glance over the shoulder.Dont rely on the mirrors



Yes. Always still shoulder check.


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## Rooster1 (14 Nov 2017)

Rotate neck and eyes and hey presto.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Nov 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Do you use a mirror?



I did on my recumbent because the riding position prevented me from getting a useful view behind me otherwise.
I don't use one on my upright.



Cronorider said:


> Mirrors are mandatory on every other vehicle



No they're not, motorcycles don't require them.


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## pawl (14 Nov 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Mirrors on old aged pensioners, that should be compulsory.
> 
> I'm tired of scaring the crap out of them as I walk past.





Now I know why my hair turned grey at 75and fell out at76.It was your fault,but it do cure my constipation.


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## pawl (14 Nov 2017)

Alan O said:


> Elderly is defined as the age at which you start thinking about putting a mirror on your bike




Then promptly forget about it due to the failing short term memory.


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## Cronorider (14 Nov 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> No they're not, motorcycles don't require them.



Ok - they are mandatory in Canada


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## LeetleGreyCells (14 Nov 2017)

No mirrors, thank you, but no.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Nov 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Ok - they are mandatory in Canada



Sorry, didn't realise you weren't in the UK.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Nov 2017)

No.


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## kingrollo (14 Nov 2017)

I rode a recumbent for a while - mirrors are pretty much essential. I really liked keeping an eye on the road behind. I thought when getting back on a road bike I would use mirrors - but I never did. 
I agree that twisting you head around is a clear sign that you are about to take a manoeuvre - There are also things you can miss in a mirror.


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## cosmicbike (14 Nov 2017)

No.
As others have said, I have them on the recumbent trike and they are very useful as shoulder checks are difficult


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## Randy Butternubs (14 Nov 2017)

I've used mirrors for along time and find them really helpful. You can see cars coming from a long way back and see their road positioning as they start passing you so you are forewarned of close passes.

They can be negatively affected by the rain and the dark but then hearing can be affected by speed/wind and traffic noise.

Part of the reason I like them might be due to needing prescription glasses - it's uncomfortable and slow to turn my head far enough to see far behind me through the lenses.

That said, they are a huge pain in the arse. To be useful they have to stick out beyond your handlebars so they get caught going through doors and gates and they adjust themselves when you lean the bike against something. These are not issues with other vehicles. All the mirrors I've tried that sit 'within' the handlebars are useless as my body blocks the view. They also interfere with bar ends. Perhaps they work better with drop bars.

I can see why more people don't use them and they absolutely should *not* be compulsory. Ultimately they are not necessary for bicycles in the way they are for cars since you can turn to look wherever you want. If they were mandatory people would just stick a tiny unobtrusive one in the middle of their handlebars that would do nothing.


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## broadway (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> So why would you think most cyclists would use mirrors even if they had them? Wouldn't mirrors become another thing like bells or pedal reflectors that loads of cyclists don't bother with regardless of any laws and so manufacturers would supply the cheapest crap or find a loophole? Maybe your mirror is adequate but you do realise that there's plenty on the market which aren't, don't you?
> 
> And why do you need a mirror "to judge when the best time to do a shoulder check" is? Doesn't it depend more on what's happening in front of you and whether you can probably safely look away from it for a fraction of a second?





mjr said:


> So why would you think most cyclists would use mirrors even if they had them? Wouldn't mirrors become another thing like bells or pedal reflectors that loads of cyclists don't bother with regardless of any laws and so manufacturers would supply the cheapest crap or find a loophole? Maybe your mirror is adequate but you do realise that there's plenty on the market which aren't, don't you?
> 
> And why do you need a mirror "to judge when the best time to do a shoulder check" is? Doesn't it depend more on what's happening in front of you and whether you can probably safely look away from it for a fraction of a second?



I didn't say they should be mandatory, I was reply to you statement that you have an unobstructed rear view (not that I see cyclist using it).

I also don't follow your second statement, checking a mirror takes a significantly shorter time than a full shoulder check. If I am turning right I can check the mirror to judge when to do a shoulder check without out worrying about overtaking cars. As what's in front a quick glance in a mirror would be much safer than a full shoulder check should I have to take avoiding action.


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## Sharky (14 Nov 2017)

Mirrors can be a help. They will indicate when it's NOT safe to move out, but cannot be relied on alone to know when it is safe to move out. Used one for a short time following a collar bone break when I could not turn by head easily, but no longer use one.


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## hoopdriver (14 Nov 2017)

I commuted for years in Melbourne (a long time ago) and found my mirror to be quite helpful. I didn't rely on it entirely, but found it a useful addition to various safety protocols I followed in traffic. Back then - we are talking early 1990s - I had an old tourer (old even then) and a mirror that fitted the brake hood quite nicely. I have never found one to suit any of my present bikes. If I could get such a mirror again, or such a good fit on my brake hoods, I would probably use it - that said, I haven't used a mirror in well over twenty years and haven't missed it either. But then I am not commuting through city traffic any more.

But mandatory? No way.


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## mustang1 (14 Nov 2017)

No.

Objects in mirrors may appear larger than reality. Or was it smaller? No no, nearer. That's it. See, so much confusion already.

Ps. Every other vehicle has a motor, why shouldn't bikes? Oh yeah, coz they are different.


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## Sea of vapours (14 Nov 2017)

No, they most emphatically should not be compulsory. 

That doesn't make them not useful and I would really miss mine if I didn't have it. It doesn't replace a shoulder check, but it does allow considerably more situational awareness at all times as I can flick my eyes to the mirror very much more frequently than I would ever turn my head and look back. As a result I usually see approaching vehicles long in advance and can modify what I do accordingly (including making sure they can't overtake on a single track road, for example, other than when I choose to allow them to at a safe point). Any actual manoevre still requires a proper shoulder check, but the constant information about what's happening behind is, to me, invaluable, in the same way as it is in a car, even though you're not performing a manoevre all the time.


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## smutchin (14 Nov 2017)

I have never used a mirror on any of my bikes. That is about all I've got to say on the subject, but if anyone ever tries to compel me to fit a mirror, I might be forced to have an opinion. Until that happens, I shall continue to regard it as a non-issue.


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Only you can answer that. Get one and try it.


I have and that's why I think they're mostly useless shoot!



Cronorider said:


> If I was doing a lot of city and commuting rides, I would have motorcycle type mirrors on my bike


So don't you have one?


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## BoldonLad (14 Nov 2017)

Mirrors can be useful, but.......... what is this fixation with making (even more) things compulsory?


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

broadway said:


> I didn't say they should be mandatory, I was reply to you statement that you have an unobstructed rear view (not that I see cyclist using it).


So what's a mirror got to do with anything, then?  (and maybe they look back while you're gazing adoringly at random body parts reflected in your mirror)



broadway said:


> I also don't follow your second statement, checking a mirror takes a significantly shorter time than a full shoulder check. If I am turning right I can check the mirror to judge when to do a shoulder check without out worrying about overtaking cars.


Maybe that's because I completely don't follow your reasoning: why's it matter if there's overtaking cars? Would you turn right without shoulder-checking if some nobber's overtaking? 



broadway said:


> As what's in front a quick glance in a mirror would be much safer than a full shoulder check should I have to take avoiding action.


I'm talking about normal road use, not exceptions. Heck, one of those James Bond inflatable coats might be useful sometimes, but let's not mandate them for everyone all the time.


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Mirrors can be useful, but.......... what is this fixation with making (even more) things compulsory?


The right-wingers have got to stick to proposing cycling-related rules now PCA's banned, perhaps?


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## Drago (14 Nov 2017)

They should not be mandatory. Experience has shown that they are rarely used properly on vehicles where their fitment is already mandatory - there is no evidence to suggest that cyclists will be any less lazy or more conscientious than any other category of road users, so extending it to bicycles would serve no purpose.


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## Randy Butternubs (14 Nov 2017)

Sharky said:


> Mirrors can be a help. They will indicate when it's NOT safe to move out, but cannot be relied on alone to know when it is safe to move out.



I see people say this a lot but it doesn't make sense to me. A well positioned mirror will show everything behind you. It can't magically conceal a car. If it's covered in rain or something it's obviously a different matter but otherwise it does show you if it's safe to move out or not.


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> I see people say this a lot but it doesn't make sense to me. A well positioned mirror will show everything behind you. It can't magically conceal a car.


Oh go on, I'll bite: what do you define as "well positioned"? It sounds an awful lot like fairly high and so far out to one side (to avoid the rider's body masking a small car) that it's going to bounce like hell and get clonked by posts/barriers that are even slightly narrow - at least on a non-recumbent.


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## broadway (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> So what's a mirror got to do with anything, then?  (and maybe they look back while you're gazing adoringly at random body parts reflected in your mirror)
> 
> 
> Maybe that's because I completely don't follow your reasoning: why's it matter if there's overtaking cars? Would you turn right without shoulder-checking if some nobber's overtaking?
> ...



I thought this was a thread about mirrors, my mistake.

I can't see random body parts in a mirror, no idea what the random body parts jibe is about.

I'm using the mirror to assess when to shoulder check, I find it useful to see what is potentially overtaking rather than mutiple shoulder checks.

Normal road conditions, yes that's right, another jibe.


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## Threevok (14 Nov 2017)

I can't imagine my commute without my mirror

It's bloody dangerous without it


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Nov 2017)

No, they are not necessary on an upright road bike.


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## Jimidh (14 Nov 2017)

Threevok said:


> I can't imagine my commute without my mirror
> 
> It's bloody dangerous without it


No it’s not dangerous unless you can’t turn your head to look - that’s the only reason to have a mirror.


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## Threevok (14 Nov 2017)

Jimidh said:


> No it’s not dangerous unless you can’t turn your head to look - that’s the only reason to have a mirror.



I;m sorry, but are you suggesting my commute isn't dangerous without it ?


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## Jimidh (14 Nov 2017)

Threevok said:


> I;m sorry, but are you suggesting my commute isn't dangerous without it ?


Yes unless you are physically incapable of turning your head then you don’t need a mirror - if you want one fine but your not any more or less in danger if you have / don’t have one.


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## Threevok (14 Nov 2017)

Jimidh said:


> Yes unless you are physically incapable of turning your head then you don’t need a mirror - if you want one fine but your not any more or less in danger if you have / don’t have one.



Try filtering into the fast moving traffic along my commute without one and you would looking behind you all the time. Hardly safe. I know, I've done it.


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## mjr (14 Nov 2017)

broadway said:


> I'm using the mirror to assess when to shoulder check, I find it useful to see what is potentially overtaking rather than mutiple shoulder checks.


One last try to get clear answers: why's it matter if there's overtaking cars? Would you turn right without shoulder-checking if some nobber's overtaking?


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## Randy Butternubs (14 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Oh go on, I'll bite: what do you define as "well positioned"? It sounds an awful lot like fairly high and so far out to one side (to avoid the rider's body masking a small car) that it's going to bounce like hell and get clonked by posts/barriers that are even slightly narrow - at least on a non-recumbent.



It doesn't need to be high but it does need to be far enough out. I find directly attached to the end of fairly short (flat) handlebars is fine and I'm not slim. Yes, it does make them annoying as I said in my earlier post; that's the trade-off (although I've never had an issue with bouncing).

If you are going to have them further in so that they don't give you a good picture of what's behind you then why bother with them at all? I've found having them further in makes them worse than useless - it becomes quicker and more reliable just to look behind me.

Edit: Re - 'I'll bite': my post wasn't intended to be bait.


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## oldwheels (14 Nov 2017)

All my bikes have mirrors and I would not feel safe without one. Having said that I am not for compulsion.


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## Milkfloat (14 Nov 2017)

I actually think that having a mirror and not shoulder checking is actually dangerous. Apart from the fact that a mirror gives a very restrictive view it also gives no indication to following vehicles that you have seen them and no indication that you may be about to perform a manoeuvre.


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## Profpointy (14 Nov 2017)

A work colleague had a tiny mirror on a stalk attatched to his helmet. Seemed quite a neat ide with some considerable potential. Not enough to make me wear a helmet, but for the liddites might be worth a go. Not tried a bike mirro but can't imagine where it could sensibly go


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## the snail (14 Nov 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> A well positioned mirror will show everything behind you. It can't magically conceal a car.


Perhaps you could come and sort out the mirrors on my van then. Two big wing mirrors with wide angle thingies on, and I have blind-spots such that I have to be really careful pulling out of junctions or changing lanes. No such problems on the bike with no mirrors.


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## Randy Butternubs (15 Nov 2017)

the snail said:


> Perhaps you could come and sort out the mirrors on my van then. Two big wing mirrors with wide angle thingies on, and I have blind-spots such that I have to be really careful pulling out of junctions or changing lanes. No such problems on the bike with no mirrors.



Hey, I totally get why people don't use them and totally agree that they aren't necessary as on a car and that they shouldn't be mandatory.

My point was just that a) a mirror should show the road behind you clearly otherwise what's the point? and b) if you can see the road is clear then it's clear and you don't need to check your shoulder (unless you want to indicate to the driver behind without removing your hands from the bars).


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## Vantage (15 Nov 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> I actually think that having a mirror and not shoulder checking is actually dangerous. Apart from the fact that a mirror gives a very restrictive view it also gives no indication to following vehicles that you have seen them and no indication that you may be about to perform a manoeuvre.



Depends on the mirror and it's positioning.
I use a Cateye BM300 which if set correctly, will show both lanes of pretty wide roads. The only times I've felt the need to shoulder check are at night due to headlight glare and when it's covered in rain drops.
Indicating is done by sticking my arm out.
The mirror allows me to signal, manoeuvre and keep an keep an eye on what's happening behind me.
I'm sure there are some lucky individuals who can do all that whilst shoulder checking, but when I try, the bike tends to wander quite a bit.


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## mjr (15 Nov 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> It doesn't need to be high but it does need to be far enough out. I find directly attached to the end of fairly short (flat) handlebars is fine and I'm not slim. Yes, it does make them annoying as I said in my earlier post; that's the trade-off (although I've never had an issue with bouncing).
> 
> If you are going to have them further in so that they don't give you a good picture of what's behind you then why bother with them at all? I've found having them further in makes them worse than useless - it becomes quicker and more reliable just to look behind me.
> 
> Edit: Re - 'I'll bite': my post wasn't intended to be bait.


It felt like you were implying that those who have tried and dismissed mirrors had misused them. The mirror has to be so far out that the reflected line of sight clears the rider's arm, shoulder and hip. Mirrors on extension arms nearly all get criticised in reviews for various types of distortion, which was my experience too. Shorter flat handlebars like yours may well help - only my folding bike has that, with porters and drops on my most-used bikes.

Plenty of the most popular mirrors are on or below the bar end like the Zefal Spy which means you can't see much on the opposite side of the bike unless it's a long way back and I think it's not the stuff a long way back you have to worry about. I've seen plenty of people with mirrors like the Spy or the between-the-legs-but-can't-use-longflap-saddlebags-or-racktops Bike Eye spend far longer peering down and wobbling around than they would have with a quick look behind if they were physically capable.


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## mjr (15 Nov 2017)

Profpointy said:


> A work colleague had a tiny mirror on a stalk attatched to his helmet. Seemed quite a neat ide with some considerable potential.


Do you mean the potential to stab the wearer in the face when they have another one of those falls that seem to happen so often to people using that headwear?


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## Profpointy (15 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Do you mean the potential to stab the wearer in the face when they have another one of those falls that seem to happen so often to people using that headwear?



At the risk of being serious (sorry) it's a question of balance. There is perhaps a small chance of injury from the little bracket in a freak accident, but conversely the mirror could give you a bit more awareness of what's around you.

If you have an off whilst wearing glasses they would clearly increase the risk of facial or (worse) eye injury, but this is balanced against the safety benefit of being able to see where you are going.

I have no pariticular bias in this as I don wear my (reading) glasses to cycle nor have a mirror, nor a helmet


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## Toshiba Boy (15 Nov 2017)

No.


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## Randy Butternubs (15 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> It felt like you were implying that those who have tried and dismissed mirrors had misused them. The mirror has to be so far out that the reflected line of sight clears the rider's arm, shoulder and hip. Mirrors on extension arms nearly all get criticised in reviews for various types of distortion, which was my experience too. Shorter flat handlebars like yours may well help - only my folding bike has that, with porters and drops on my most-used bikes.
> 
> Plenty of the most popular mirrors are on or below the bar end like the Zefal Spy which means you can't see much on the opposite side of the bike unless it's a long way back and I think it's not the stuff a long way back you have to worry about. I've seen plenty of people with mirrors like the Spy or the between-the-legs-but-can't-use-longflap-saddlebags-or-racktops Bike Eye spend far longer peering down and wobbling around than they would have with a quick look behind if they were physically capable.



I didn't meant to imply that. This happens a lot to me so I'm probably bad at communicating.

I've got a Cateye BM300 which works well.





And a Mirrycle which is on a bit of a stalk and also works well. Real glass that doesn't scratch! I don't get issues with vibration.




I've got a Zefal Spy but find it pretty useless and cheaply made.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Nov 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I rode once with a guy who used one of those. We had quite a long chat about it and he said he'd been using it for years and found it very effective. And who am I to doubt him? He also said he'd used some other brand which was less so. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of either brand.




I used to use the Blackburn version when I had my recumbent:



It was quite useful, given that I couldn't turn my head around but it was very easy to knock out of alignment. It also meant wearing a helmet and any time you sat the helmet down somewhere it moved the mirror arm. A mirror can be helpful in certain circumstances but I would be against compulsory fitting.


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## lutonloony (15 Nov 2017)

Only for reversing


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## Widge (15 Nov 2017)

Until I got one....I would have said no and thrice no....so UN-Velominati and unnecessary??
That is-until I invested a small amount of squidos on a 'Sprintech' roadbike bar end mirror after putting my shoulder out a few months ago. I think there are geeky looking and largely wobbly ineffectual mirrors-and then there are the 'Sprint-tech' type. Largely unobtrusive-blend into the lines of the bike and bars-easy to fit and adjust on the fly (although mine holds adjustment admirably unless I knock it with my knee mounting and dismounting. They give a somewhat compromised but clear enough view of what is going on behind you at a glance-but distances are hard to judge until you simply _get used to it_ like one does with car wing mirrors.
Does it replace the over the shoulder look?
NO and thrice no
Does it it give some element of increased awareness of what is happening around you?
YES and thrice yes.
Should they be mandatory?
No!

I wouldn't be without mine as an _additional_ situation awareness tool.....but then... I *AM* a situational awareness tool!

YMMV

w


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## BoldonLad (15 Nov 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> I've got a Cateye BM300 which works well.
> View attachment 383234
> 
> .



Me too....


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## freiston (16 Nov 2017)

I tried a helmet mounted mirror but found that it vibrated too much on the end of the plastic flexible arm to be of much use. It detached itself from the arm during a food and drink stop at a pub near Warwick; by the time I noticed, I didn't consider it worth turning round to retrieve.

I have fancied a decent sized bike-mounted mirror but the only ones that have grabbed my interest have been bar-end mounted and I use bar-end shifters and so cannot fit such a mirror.

I do sometimes struggle to look over my shoulder and get a clear view of what is behind me and this is why I have an interest in rear-view mirrors. I have one short-sighted eye and one long-sighted eye so I can get by without wearing spectacles but when I look over my right shoulder, I lose my distance-vision. I wear bifocal spectacles for everything other than the computer - when I look through the lens over my shoulder, there is very little that I can see clearly.


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## NickNick (16 Nov 2017)

I wander if they've done any proper safety tests on those mirrors that attach to helmets, to me most of them look like they'd have a high chance of causing some quite nasty injuries to the face and or eyes in the event of a fall.


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## Apollonius (16 Nov 2017)

I think @Milkfloat makes a very good point. Turning round to look is clear indication to a vehicle behind that you have seen it. The sort of roads that I favour (narrow winding lanes) make passing difficult for powered vehicles unless the rider (me) is co-operating. The backward look, maybe even eye-contact, is an essential part of the communication process, which lets the driver know you are aware he is there and you are looking for a place where you think it safe for him/her to pass. I know all this could be achieved with a mirror as a supplementary aid, but I fear I would become lazy. Apart from that, after many years of "offs", I know how little of a projecting object it takes to remove a chunk of flesh I would prefer to have kept. 
I am still just about flexible enough to turn my head, even though 70 isn't far away. Not for me, thanks, but if you want to use one, why not?


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## Threevok (16 Nov 2017)

On a side note - has anyone toyed with the idea of an LCD screen on your bars - linked to a rear camera on the bike ?

I'm not talking 21" screen here, just a small 2 or 3 inch display


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## Randy Butternubs (16 Nov 2017)

Apollonius said:


> The backward look, maybe even eye-contact, is an essential part of the communication process, which lets the driver know you are aware he is there and you are looking for a place where you think it safe for him/her to pass.



That's a possibility but I think it's equally likely that:
- The driver is now certain that you know he is there and will squeeze past with (mistaken) confidence that you will not deviate from your line.
- The driver isn't paying any attention to you or your road positioning.

There's a fast but windy road I often cycle on which opens up for a possible overtake just before I turn off. Every time, I give a strong, early left arm signal and every time, the driver behind overtakes literally 2 seconds before my turn whether it's safe or not.


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## Randy Butternubs (16 Nov 2017)

Threevok said:


> On a side note - has anyone toyed with the idea of an LCD screen on your bars - linked to a rear camera on the bike ?
> 
> I'm not talking 21" screen here, just a small 2 or 3 inch display



It sounds like a ridiculous idea on the surface but given how awkward mirrors are to mount on a bike it might not be. 

Garmin do a 'radar' system - the _Varia Rearview Radar_. It isn't a camera but it is meant to give a warning of drivers coming up behind you and an approximate distance_. _It makes a lot more sense if you already have the screen in the form of a big GPS cycle computer. Even then it costs a whopping £100 (£215 for the full kit!) and the sensor desperately needs to be slimmed down.


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## potsy (16 Nov 2017)

Well, I am a fan of mirrors on my bikes and keep one on there all the time.

I quickly swap mine between bikes and if I ever forget to I soon go back and get it.

The only exception being the mtb where I haven't yet fitted one, as it's rarely used on anything but trails it's not a problem.

Even as a fan I wouldn't want them made compulsory though.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Nov 2017)

If you mount a mirror where does your make up go?


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Nov 2017)

NickNick said:


> I wander if they've done any proper safety tests on those mirrors that attach to helmets, to me most of them look like they'd have a high chance of causing some quite nasty injuries to the face and or eyes in the event of a fall.



Any more so than sunglasses or spectacles?


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## mjr (17 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> If you mount a mirror where does your make up go?


Your undercarriage, presumably. If you've mounted the mirror, that's the reflection you'll see.


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## RichK (17 Nov 2017)

I did try using a mirror on my commuting bike for a while. Vibration on it was bad & it rarely seemed to be at the right angle (no matter how I adjusted it) that I was simply looking over my shoulder anyway. It didn't work for me.


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## dodgy (17 Nov 2017)

I have a zefal spy mirror, tiny and unobtrusive. My ride partners mostly don't realise I have it, but I'm always first to call out that there's a following vehicle, later on they figure out how I know.
Also really handy for spotting if your mates are dropping off the back. And no, I don't substitute a glance at the mirror for a proper shoulder check, the mirror is as well as a shoulder check, not instead of.


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## NickNick (17 Nov 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Any more so than sunglasses or spectacles?



Based on where the rod is placed on the helmet I would guess (could be wrong) it would have more potential to pierce through a cheek/mouth/jaw than the frames from sunglasses or spectacles.


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Nov 2017)

NickNick said:


> Based on where the rod is placed on the helmet I would guess (could be wrong) it would have more potential to pierce through a cheek/mouth/jaw than the frames from sunglasses or spectacles.



They are incredibly flimsy, being easily knocked off even when simply setting the helmet down on a table if you're clumsy about it. I'm not saying they're safe, but I don't expect they'll cause any more injury than striking your face on a surface while wearing glasses, where the frames/lenses have potential to cause serious injury to the eyes.


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## Mike_P (29 May 2018)

Catseye on the hybrid, Zefel Spin on the road bike. Do not always use them but exceptionally useful for spying gaps approaching in the queue of traffic passing by on a busy A road when needing to do a right turn.


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## MiK1138 (29 May 2018)

Cronorider said:


> Another thread got me thinking about the use of mirrors. I don't see very many bikes that have mirrors on them, particularly road bikes. I do have one of the bar end mirrors on my road bike, which is very unobtrusive, and I find it to be very useful, particularly in town. Do you use a mirror? Mirrors are mandatory on every other vehicle, why not bikes?


Only if you are handsome bugger like what I am


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## jonnysnorocket (30 May 2018)

No !!


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## mustang1 (30 May 2018)

Airliners don't use mirrors so I dont want to either. 

Anyway, if I wanted to use mirrors then I'd go the whole way and get parking sensors on my bike too and possibly a reversing camera. Cars have them, why shouldn't bikes?


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## numbnuts (30 May 2018)

I ride a trike so I have mirrors


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## derrick (30 May 2018)

I have used one for a while. Find it really usefull on clib rides. I can see if anyone is getting dropped. I have a problem with my shoulder and find it awkward to turn my head to far round. It only weighs a couple of grams so it dont slow me down.


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## cosmicbike (30 May 2018)

numbnuts said:


> I ride a trike so I have mirrors


Same here. On a recumbent trike they are very useful indeed.


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## FishFright (30 May 2018)

Another one with trikes and they are extremely useful , it's a right pain without one. I am tempted to fit one on my tourer at some point.


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## Randy Butternubs (30 May 2018)

It's worth noting that mirrors aren't even mandatory on motorbikes in the UK.


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## classic33 (30 May 2018)

No


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## classic33 (30 May 2018)

mustang1 said:


> Airliners don't use mirrors so I dont want to either.
> 
> Anyway, if I wanted to use mirrors then I'd go the whole way and get parking sensors on my bike too and possibly a reversing camera. Cars have them, why shouldn't bikes?


Bikes don't usually have a reverse gear fitted though.


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## Tin Pot (30 May 2018)

classic33 said:


> Bikes don't usually have a reverse gear fitted though.



They quite often have a dipstick on board though.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (30 May 2018)

classic33 said:


> Bikes don't usually have a reverse gear fitted though.



Perhaps that should be mandatory too.


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## Tin Pot (30 May 2018)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Perhaps that should be mandatory too.


And anyone fueling with fats instead of carbs in ketosis should be checked for emissions.


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## derrick (30 May 2018)

classic33 said:


> Bikes don't usually have a reverse gear fitted though.


Fixies do.


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## mjr (30 May 2018)

derrick said:


> Fixies do.


They're abnormal. I don't understand why anyone except pawlphobics would want to ride them


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## Smokin Joe (30 May 2018)

mjr said:


> They're abnormal. I don't understand why anyone except pawlphobics would want to ride them


People who know how to handle a bike like them


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## Will Spin (30 May 2018)

The only possible use I can see for a mirror would be to save the wear and tear on my neck when leading a ride with my cycling club and having to keep turning round to make sure I haven't left everyone behind!


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