# saddles and sit bones



## Crackle (26 Nov 2007)

OK: I've done this thread once on BR and ended up with a Selle Italia Flite. Lovely saddle but it didn't suit me or the bike.

So now rather than ask what saddle people would recommend I want to ask a bit more about the process of picking one.

One of my problems is that, although there are a couple of decent bike shops nearby, the saddle selection is poor so I need to make a good a good guess at what I need.

So current saddle is a cheap squidgy gel: OK up to about 20 miles then progressively more uncomfortable. So I need a harder saddle which fits my sit bones which are 130mm wide according to some squirming with hands and rulers 

Also current saddle doesn't taper enough, so I feel it rubbing slightly inside my thighs.

Thinking of a Brooks, maybe not the B17 but one of the others or at the other end of the spectrum a Specialized but for the latter I'm a bit wary due to the Sella Flite being a bit too minimalist. Previous saddles have been smooth with minimum padding but no 'channels'. I don't generally suffer with numbness. I do the usual of moving forward on the saddle when pushing hard.

So! any thoughts?


----------



## Tynan (26 Nov 2007)

horses for courses I'd have thought

I get on with minimalist saddles, it's a matter of training yourself rather than the saddle I always think, the right pad thereafter

gel is bad, ditto big pads


----------



## Crackle (26 Nov 2007)

Tynan said:


> gel is bad, ditto big pads



I think this has some merit - which is why I'm looking at the Brooks. I dunno perhaps I'm thinking too hard, should just trust my instincts.


----------



## yenrod (26 Nov 2007)

Specialized Toupe saddles as they are called, seem to be a big deal in cycling circles and quite a few are sold on them never mind their shoes both have had quite a lot of R+D on them and its paid off too. ! 

NB they are available in diff. widths.

I'd recommend one with a hole in them.

Selle Italia saddles are hyped to me and although fairly comfortable - the best _roady_ saddle Ive had was the Rolls...me' wonders about buying one as the 1st time I had this was on an MTB but now I've a ROADY bike should go quite well.

Getting back on subject...

Just get one with a hole in it !


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> I think this has some merit - which is why I'm looking at the Brooks. I dunno perhaps I'm thinking too hard, should just trust my instincts.



I bought my first B17 over 20 years ago, I'm on my second now, I wouldn't use anything else for distances over 20 miles. Great straight from the box, plenty of room to move around too.


----------



## Noodley (26 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> I think this has some merit - which is why I'm looking at the Brooks. I dunno perhaps I'm thinking too hard, should just trust my instincts.




If you are thinking about a Brooks and can wait a wee while BikePlus, who are very well priced with "sale prices" anyway, usually have a very good "sale" on their "sale prices" just after Christmas. I got my Team Professional for about £45 last year - currently on sale for £52 (or thereabouts), with RRP of £65.


----------



## Crackle (26 Nov 2007)

Fab Foodie said:


> I bought my first B17 over 20 years ago, I'm on my second now, I wouldn't use anything else for distances over 20 miles. Great straight from the box, plenty of room to move around too.



I'm 'aving trouble picturing your bike. It's a Giant with a Brooks and a Barley on it. Quite an eclectic mix 

Have you got the normal or the narrow B17?


----------



## Crackle (26 Nov 2007)

Noodley said:


> If you are thinking about a Brooks and can wait a wee while BikePlus, who are very well priced with "sale prices" anyway, usually have a very good "sale" on their "sale prices" just after Christmas. I got my Team Professional for about £45 last year - currently on sale for £52 (or thereabouts), with RRP of £65.




Why did you go for the team professional over the B17? The team Pro was the one I liked the look of actually but everybody raves over the B17


----------



## Noodley (26 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> Why did you go for the team professional over the B17? The team Pro was the one I liked the look of actually but everybody raves over the B17



I was highly technical and analytical in my choice - cos it looks better!


----------



## Crackle (26 Nov 2007)

Noodley said:


> I was highly technical and analytical in my choice - cos it looks better!



You see, instinctively I knew I wanted the team pro 'cause it looked better but I just couldn't say it: I'm over-analyzing aren't I?




yenrod said:


> Just get one with a hole in it !



I don't want to end up on the sex offenders register you know!


----------



## Spoked Wheels (26 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> You see, instinctively I knew I wanted the team pro 'cause it looked better but I just couldn't say it: I'm over-analyzing aren't I?
> 
> I don't want to end up on the sex offenders register you know!



I have the team pro and also the champion, which is like the B17 but nicer.

I have found that the team pro is a great saddle BUT you must ride with some of your weight on the pedals, ie the mid range cogs. When I ride alone I do exactly that and the saddle is just wonderful but when I ride with my wife then we take it easy and the saddle is not confortable after the 10 miles mark more or less.

So, now I ride my MTB when I go with my wife and I bought the champion for that reason. That saddle is great for riding slowly and also a beautiful saddle I must say.


Rick


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Nov 2007)

Noodley said:


> I was highly technical and analytical in my choice - cos it looks better!


True, but I buy B17's cos I'm a cheapskate!

Oh and Second Bike+ Paul Smith there is such a helpful guy.


----------



## mickle (27 Nov 2007)

Selle Italia Flite Genuine Gel. Ive got two. Fizik do some great saddles, so do Selle San Marco (Rolls).

Brooks saddles are pervy and shouldn't be allowed on anything nonferrous or non BRG.


----------



## Chris James (27 Nov 2007)

I've got a B17N. My selection was because it was the cheapest Brooks that would suit my skinny frame (and presumbaly narrow sit bones).

The other advantage is that it has bag loops.

Anyway, I find it really comfy. I have my bars a couple of inches below the saddle and maybe a more upright position would be better suited with the normal B17?

Gel saddles are dire in my opinion.

By the way Crackle, I vaguely recall you from C+ looking at buying a Dawes Audax? If so the black B17N looks nice with mine. If I am wrong and you have some carbon lightweight effort then the saddle might not look right.


----------



## Crackle (27 Nov 2007)

Chris James said:


> By the way Crackle, I vaguely recall you from C+ looking at buying a Dawes Audax? If so the black B17N looks nice with mine. If I am wrong and you have some carbon lightweight effort then the saddle might not look right.




Well remebered! 

In fact I ended up with the Audax, it's just perfect for my needs. I've done about a thousand miles on it now and am just in the process of making a few changes inc. gearing, saddle and bag.

And exactly as you say, the Selle Italia I ended up with looked ridiculous on my bike. It was also too narrow for me, which surprised me as I am no heavyweight. This is why I went to the trouble of measuring my sit bones. If I've done it right and I think I have, then for my size I have quite wide sit bones so I think I need a saddle which is at least 140 wide (Selle Italia was 130 - Ouch). I also ride the Audax with the bars an inch or two below the seat nose and although I don't slouch along, I don't ride in a committed race position.

So having finally veered towards Brooks I can't quite decide between the B17 normal or narrow or the team pro. At the moment I'm thinking team pro because it tapers a little sharper, so won't rub my thighs. I also have a tendency, like many, to come forward on the saddle when I'm putting some effort in, in which case I want less saddle under me as there is more weight taken on arms and legs - at least that's the theory. I also think if the B17 is too wide, it'll push me forward and then I'll end up lifting the nose to stop me coming forward and it'll all get a bit uncomfortable.

I think I'll just buy one. I'll know in one ride if I've made the wrong choice. I could then flog it on hardly used and recoup most of the money. If I get the team pro and it's wrong I should get the price of the B17 back. So a B17 for the price of Pro


----------



## Blonde (27 Nov 2007)

If you are committed to a Brooks of some sort, you can always customise it and lace the sides in, to prevent rubbing on your inner thighs. I don't get on with standard Brooks as I need a cut out so I tried a customised one which was better, though not as good as it's subsequent replacement - a Selle An-Atomica leather saddle with cut out (made in the US), which flexes more than a Brooks so is more comfy for me.


----------



## Chris James (27 Nov 2007)

If it is any use to you, I have put about 1500 miles, maybe more - I am guesisng! - on my B17N and the sitbones are heavily indented but the sides don't appear to have flared at all. I do wonder if the standard B17 are a bit more hammocky due to its extra width. As Blonde points out, you could lace the sides if necessray - in fact Brooks sell some that have holes for that purpose.

The Team Pro looks nicer but doesn't have bag loops and is a bit more expensive. If you don't want bag loops I would be tempted with the Team pro even though I really like my B17N.


----------



## Crackle (27 Nov 2007)

I think it's between the B17N and the Team pro. I marginally prefer the looks of the latter and the loops aren't important as I think I'm going to go for a Carradry saddlebag rather than the Barley I was initially thinking of.

I shall just do a bit more measuring and checking of my posterior position on the saddle today before I decide. Selle An-atomica is noted for future reference but I don't think I need to go down that route yet. I think I've discounted Gel saddles (sorry Mickle) as I've never used gels before, current saddle being the first and I don't like the feel of them. This is the first saddle that's ever troubled me.


----------



## Fab Foodie (27 Nov 2007)

Chris James said:


> I've got a B17N. My selection was because it was the cheapest Brooks that would suit my skinny frame (and presumbaly narrow sit bones).
> 
> The other advantage is that it has bag loops.
> *
> ...



I find the standard B17 is OK (even on an Aluminium bike  with a fair height difference twixt Saddle and Bars. No chaffing either on the sides. plenty of room to move fore/aft also.


----------



## Crackle (27 Nov 2007)

Actually FF that looks quite nice. Black and red is a nice combo. Not sure about a Green Barley with that though, or is it black?

That SQR bracket is a bit of a beast. I think that's made my mind up on the bag thread. 

I couldn't ride that bike of yours. Lovely though it looks I couldn't be doing with being so stretched. My bones are seizing upright despite copious amounts of cod liver oil.


----------



## Star_Rover (27 Nov 2007)

Bit more money but what about a Brooks Swift? 90 quid in Bike+ at the minute. Less chance of thigh chafe too.


----------



## mickle (27 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> I think I've discounted Gel saddles as I've never used gels before....



Interesting decision making process there.


----------



## Fab Foodie (27 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> Actually FF that looks quite nice. Black and red is a nice combo. Not sure about a Green Barley with that though, or is it black?
> 
> That SQR bracket is a bit of a beast. I think that's made my mind up on the bag thread.
> 
> I couldn't ride that bike of yours. Lovely though it looks I couldn't be doing with being so stretched. My bones are seizing upright despite copious amounts of cod liver oil.



Hi Crackle, yes my Barley is Black. Agree the bracket is a beast and eventually I will transfer it to my Audax bike project. BUT, it works soooo well for my needs I don't mind too much.
The bike's not too much of a stretch (if my belly shrank a bit), as I mentioned on the layback seatpost thread I have quite a longish back compared to my leg length. The bike fits well for high speed work and 100 mile day rides are fine.


----------



## User482 (27 Nov 2007)

Specialized make a device for measuring the width of your sit bones. Using this, I ordered a Avatar saddle in 143mm, in preparation for my LEJOG. The result was increasingly unbearable agnony for 4 days, until I went and bought a well padded Bontrager, which was fine for the rest of the trip.


----------



## Crackle (27 Nov 2007)

mickle said:


> crackle said:
> 
> 
> > _I think I've discounted Gel saddles as I've never used gels before...._
> ...



*<quote out of context alert>* 

yes Swift looks nice but is heading rapidly into 'blow the budget' territory.

Current saddle is a well padded gel and is just not comfy. Without access to a Specialized measuring device I read various measurement techniques, one of which was to put some flour in a baking tray and stick your arse in it! Now it didn't say so but I reckon that that one is best done in the privacy of your own home, preferrably near the shower and don't tell the wife you've had your arse in the baking tray!


----------



## Spoked Wheels (27 Nov 2007)

Crackle said:


> I think I need a saddle which is at least 140 wide (Selle Italia was 130 - Ouch). I also ride the Audax with the bars an inch or two below the seat nose and although I don't slouch along, I don't ride in a committed race position.
> 
> So having finally veered towards Brooks I can't quite decide between the B17 normal or narrow or the team pro. At the moment I'm thinking team pro because it tapers a little sharper, so won't rub my thighs. I also have a tendency, like many, to come forward on the saddle when I'm putting some effort in, in which case I want less saddle under me as there is more weight taken on arms and legs - at least that's the theory. I also think if the B17 is too wide, it'll push me forward and then I'll end up lifting the nose to stop me coming forward and it'll all get a bit uncomfortable.



Reading your post makes me think you will be happy with the team pro... I don't think you have to worry about the saddle rubbing your thighs, this is a problem I've had with other saddles but not with the team pro. A word of warning though  if you think you will know on yours first ride if the team pro is the saddle for you then you are not really giving the team pro a chance - this saddle is very, very hard when brand new and it only becomes comfy after quite a few rides (it took 500 miles for the saddle and my rear side to become best friends  )

The B17 is only 1cm wider than the team pro and for an extra fiver you can get the champion which is also a lovely saddle.

Rick


----------



## Noodley (27 Nov 2007)

RRSODL said:


> ...this saddle is very, very hard when brand new and it only becomes comfy after quite a few rides...



Some people must have a "naturally" Brooks arse - mine was comfy from day one.


----------



## Fab Foodie (27 Nov 2007)

Noodley said:


> Some people must have a "naturally" Brooks arse - mine was comfy from day one.


Mine too. Must be the years of applying proofhide to my buttocks...


----------



## Noodley (27 Nov 2007)

Fab Foodie said:


> Mine too. Must be the years of applying proofhide to my buttocks...





I was Proofiding my saddle last night -something very comforting in it. 

I have even ordered a cover for my saddle to keep it cosy and dry in the winter


----------



## mickle (27 Nov 2007)

Sandal wearing, pipe smoking, real ale drinking perverts the lot of you.


----------



## Noodley (27 Nov 2007)

mickle said:


> Sandal wearing, pipe smoking, real ale drinking perverts the lot of you.




There, that's better.


----------



## Crackle (6 Dec 2007)

Went for the B17 Narrow in the end. I liked the team pro looks better but I was thinking that my lightweight (and getting lighter) build would be better suited to the slightly softer and thinner skinned B17 and the narrow should still be plenty wide enough for my sitbones.

Hopefully it'll be right or it could be the start of a long odyssey through various saddles. Who knows if I do have a Brooks backside and take to it I might get the team pro anyway and move the B17 to the mtn bike. Now that might look odd!

Next post will be about looking after it!


----------



## Dave5N (25 Dec 2007)

I rode B17s for years. OK they were.

I now have a specialized Toupe (mentioned much earlier). It looks like a mediaeval torture device, but it is by far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used.

Fanbloodytastic. Best seventy quid I ever spent.


----------



## Chuffy (25 Dec 2007)

Crackle said:


> Went for the B17 Narrow in the end. I liked the team pro looks better but I was thinking that my lightweight (and getting lighter) build would be better suited to the slightly softer and thinner skinned B17 and the narrow should still be plenty wide enough for my sitbones.
> 
> Hopefully it'll be right or it could be the start of a long odyssey through various saddles. Who knows if I do have a Brooks backside and take to it I might get the team pro anyway and move the B17 to the mtn bike. Now that might look odd!
> 
> Next post will be about looking after it!


How's it going then?
Having read the whole of this thread I would have tried to nudge you in the direction of the saddle that you have ended up buying. I'm a dedicated real ale drinking leather saddle fetishist but having started on a regular B17 (killed through over Proofiding and fiddling with the tension bolt) I have graduated to B17Ns. I once had a Champion but it was far too wide. The B17N is the narrowest saddle that they produce (apart from the Swift/Swallow megabuck seats) and that was what I was after. Incidentally, I'd just like to put in a word for Paul Smith and Bikeplus. One of the most helpful and friendly chaps ever and Bikeplus is a damn good outfit. 

A few tips on the saddle now that you have it:-

1) Check the threads on here and other places on saddle care/breaking in. There's a lot of advice out there.
2) use Proofide AND NOTHING ELSE on the saddle.
3) Proofide the saddle once and once only. It will soak in and soften the leather, doing it too often will wreck the saddle.
4) Don't forget, Proofide the underside (once only) and use mudguards. 
5) Get a cover (about £3.99) and use it. Moisture will ruin the saddle.
6) NEVER, EVER fiddle with the bolt.

Good luck! Brooks saddles rock.


----------



## Crackle (27 Dec 2007)

Chuffy: Well I've done about 6 hours of riding on it so far, no one ride longer than an hour yet and the first 2 or 3 were spent feeling the saddle out for adjustment, a couple were on the turbo too, so really still getting the feel of it.

The saddle feels hard but not uncomfortable and I'm not getting the numb feeling the gel was giving me. It's starting to gather a few creases in the leather but it's not broken in yet. Width wise it's OK and my sitbones are resting comfortably on the wider part of the saddle. The one thing I do find is that the leather doesn't really grip, so I slide about a bit more (saddle is setup level), I presume this will stop as I break in a position on the saddle.

Proofed once so far, bottom and top and I was thinking about a partial proof over about 2/3rds of the nose section in a few weeks if it hadn't softened anymore but I'll wait and see.

Overall I think it's going to suit. I love the looks of it on the bike and apart from feeling hard it's not giving me any problems, will report back in the New Year after some longer rides.


----------



## Chris James (28 Dec 2007)

Crackle said:


> The one thing I do find is that the leather doesn't really grip, so I slide about a bit more (saddle is setup level), I presume this will stop as I break in a position on the saddle.




Yup


----------



## Noodley (29 Dec 2007)

Crackle said:


> The one thing I do find is that the leather doesn't really grip, so I slide about a bit more (saddle is setup level), I presume this will stop as I break in a position on the saddle.



I found a slight "up" angle at the front was more comfortable than "level". Not a noticeable amount to look at mind, just what would technically be called a "smidgen".


----------



## spandex (29 Dec 2007)

I do like a smidgen it dose make all the difference.


----------



## Noodley (29 Dec 2007)

spandex said:


> I do like a smidgen it dose make all the difference.



You noticed as well then


----------



## spandex (29 Dec 2007)

I did


----------



## Crackle (29 Dec 2007)

I was thinking of upping it a smidgen - might need a seatpost with more graduated smidgens though.


----------



## Crackle (11 Mar 2008)

Not broken this saddle in yet and am having a few doubts. Proofed twice now and the tendency to slide out of position is beginning to cheese me off  I reckon I've done about 400 miles on it so far. Not done too many miles this last two months but I was hoping it would have started to feel more comfortable by now. Maybe I'm not a Brooks person after all


----------



## Chris James (11 Mar 2008)

If it is any use I found mine held out for a while and then sort of gave. I don't recall sliding around for ages, even though it did when i first got it. Basically I would give it another couple of hundred miles at least.


----------



## 4F (11 Mar 2008)

Crackle said:


> Not broken this saddle in yet and am having a few doubts. Proofed twice now and the tendency to slide out of position is beginning to cheese me off  I reckon I've done about 400 miles on it so far. Not done too many miles this last two months but I was hoping it would have started to feel more comfortable by now. Maybe I'm not a Brooks person after all



I persisted with mine for 1000 miles and then gave up on it as anything over 20 miles and it was really hurting my arse sit bones. Bought a spec toupe and its been the best money I have spent on my bike in a long time and is a real joy to ride on


----------



## Tynan (11 Mar 2008)

this brooks stuff cracks me up, they can't be that much more comf that a decent saddle surely?


----------



## Chris James (12 Mar 2008)

Tynan said:


> this brooks stuff cracks me up, they can't be that much more comf that a decent saddle surely?



I suppose what saddle you consider to be comfy depends on the saddle design, your arse shape and how long you are in the saddle for. I can only say that with my B17N I no longer ever even think about discomfort on the saddle. In fact I forget about the saddle completely. I have never had this with the various non Brooks I have tried, but this may be because I am a tight wad and don't want to pay shoot loads for a super dooper 'decent' saddle. I think my B17N cost about £35. Also I expect the Brooks to continue to be just as comfortable for years to come, whereas some of the plastic efforts I have struggled with in the past seem to have hardened over time.

I think it makes sense that a leather saddle should end up being very comfy. As an analogy I have full grain leather walking boots. They were stiff when I first bought them but after breaking in feel like a slipper and will last for ages (after a few resoles). My wife bought some fabric / goretex efforts with internal padding. Fitted like trainers from the off and she was very pleased with them. But after a bit of wear the padding compressed and the over fussy stitching disintegrated making them uncomofortable and needing replacing. She has now moved onto leather boots too.

Anyway, each to their own.


----------



## Crackle (12 Mar 2008)

Thanks Chris, I'll persist. My mileage should start going up again this month with some longer 2-3 hour rides as well. I'm thinking about changing seat stems as the one I have is quite basic. I'd like an 'infinitely' adjustable one, as opposed to being splined. One spline change brings the nose of the saddle up to high.

A lot of people have good things to say about Brooks saddles so I need to give it a fair trial. The problem is not my sitbones but the fact that sliding forward takes me off my sitbones and onto a fleshier bit on a harder part of the saddle (this is the bit I've re-proofed).

I do need a new saddle for my mtn bike as the cover is ripping. For this I might buy something like the Specialized and see if it suits.


----------



## Chris James (12 Mar 2008)

Longer rides might well sort things out as I think my one truly gave out on a couple of 60 milers whereas 20 mile spins don't seem to do as much.

I have a Dawes Audax 2006 too and for me luckily the seat post seems to drop at the right angle. I would hold fire buying a new seat post if I were you. One of the side effects of breaking in is that the central section goes VERY slightly hamocky, so you may end up with your desired position anyway.

I also find that I sit on different bits of the saddle during rides. The back for going up hills and the front if I am putting down the hammer (or at least as much hammer as I can manage!!). Mine is comfy in all areas to be honest. Of course it is possible that you don't have a Brooks arse after all!


----------



## Dave5N (13 Mar 2008)

Try a toupe. Most comfortable saddle I ever had. (and I rode two Brooks for over 20 years.)


----------



## Crackle (13 Mar 2008)

I might get a Toupe for the mtn bike Dave. Heard so many good things about them I should really try one. At least if I don't like it I can sell it, whereas no one wants a half broken Brooks.

On a good note I did manage to get the Brooks into a position which was more comfortable today. I previously tried slight nose up but I did it again today with the saddle fully forward and the bars on their highest setting: Result. No sliding and my bum in the right spot. I'll try that for a couple of rides and see how it goes.


----------



## stevenb (13 Mar 2008)

Just thought I'd add to this thread.


I recently bought my new bike and chose the Specialized Toupe saddle. The LBS assumed I'd be a 143mm but said they'd be happy to change it for a 130mm if I wanted.
I had the test and it turned out that I was 125mm so naturally the 130mm seemed to spring to mind for choice.....but having said that I am finding the 143mm one to be ok so far.
The 1st 52 miles ride I did was fine.....comfortable too.
I have noticed discomfort a little more when using the bike on the turbo trainer though...but generally thats after 30 mins or so.....so I am unsure whether I should stick with my 143mm or ask for a 130mm.


----------



## Crackle (13 Mar 2008)

I find on the turbo you don't move around as much as on the road. I shift position/come out the seat everytime I change gear/pace once I'm past about 20 minutes.

Can't advise on the width though. I know 130mm is way too narrow for me and I'm by no means big


----------



## Crackle (11 Apr 2008)

I think I'm winning. Flats and creases are beginning to appear, the sliding is less and when I'm sitting back its feeling OK but forward is still uncomfy. I'll be able to stop wearing two pairs of shorts soon 

No but seriously I'm glad I've persevered as I think this is going to work, though I wish it had been comfy from the start like a few of you had said.


----------



## John the Monkey (11 Apr 2008)

Glad it's working out for you, Crackle.

The Pedaller's A to Z on the Brooks;

BROOKS SADDLE. Constructed of hard leather, sometimes mistaken for titanium. Must be broken in -- *the rider, that is*. Favoured by traditional cyclists who traditionally forgo comfort for pain, which may account for the awful grimaces you sometimes see on their faces. Not so bad once you go numb. Recommended for male cyclists who wish to remain without issue. [Brooks veterans may regard this entry as outrageous hyperbole, to which we respond: yeah, all right, probably.]

(My emphasis  )


----------



## Crackle (11 Apr 2008)

That's very good. 

The turning point was 1 30 mile ride I did which was just torture. By half way through I'd decided, with absolute certainity, that I was heading for the LBS to get a gel the next day. 

Fortunately or unfortunately it was Easter weekend, so I couldn't. I had to do another ride on it and it didn't feel so bad. So I did another and that didn't feel so bad either. The I went on my mtn bike and i couldn't get comfy on the saddle and I found myself missing the Broooks 

I've been assimilated 

PS. I've done all my issuing now


----------



## hatless (21 Apr 2008)

The Brooks website is seriously classy. I've just been staring at it all like a kid in a sweet shop. I remember Brooks saddles from the bike racks at school a hundred years ago. I had no idea they still existed. Unchanged! That neat little metal label. And some of them cost twice as much as I paid for my bike!

The trouble is I think I want one now, and I think I'll therefore need to get a bike it will look right on. This could be seriously expensive.


----------

