# Insulating the garage



## JhnBssll (8 Jan 2021)

So I've decided that whilst I'm already mid-DIY adventure with the front extension it would be a great idea to break away for a week or so and insulate the garage  In the last few years I've made some improvements by replacing the main garage door with an insulated electric roller-shutter and the personnel door with a nice insulated composite door but there's no getting away from the fact it's a single skin stand-alone garage. If it's freezing outside it's freezing inside  Since I've made the space much more usable recently it seems daft not to finish it off with some insulation so I can use it comfortably year-round.

To that end I've ordered lots of insulation  Plan is:

- Empty the roof of a decades worth of crap 
- Remove the haphazard boards that the previous owner balanced across the joists and screw down some proper boards for storage, braced if needed
- Insulate the rafters with 50mm celotex leaving a vent space above
- once the roof is done I'll move all the crap I haven't discarded back in to the roof and tear out the cupboards and benches to expose all the walls
- batten the walls with dpc between batten and brickwork, then 40mm of taped celotex with foil vapour barrier, then 15mm OSB screwed through to the battens
- Paint OSB
- Re-run the electrics in surface conduit
- Fit some sort of smart heater so I can preheat the room remotely when needed to save heating it continuously

Then I need to think about the best use of the new space and what to replace the benches with, the stuff in there at the moment was all built in by the previous owner and, unlike the roof boards, is absolutely solid - I imagine it'll be fun trying to remove it 

I've read a few articles and know the insulation thickness I'm using is below that required of the current regs but really all I'm hoping to do is stop it being freezing cold - I could see my breath in there earlier  I'll continue to use the turbo trainer in there, and I also run 3D printers in there which don't like the cold at all. I want to avoid damp which is probably my greatest concern as I don't really want the roof timbers rotting through at any point  To this end I'll be extra careful to tape all the insulation joins and try to avoid cold spots, but some will be inevitable due to the construction of the roof timbers. Would be good to hear others thoughts on this so if you have any experience, tips, advice, please let me know


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## matticus (8 Jan 2021)

<follows>


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## slowmotion (9 Jan 2021)

It's probably got a concrete floor. If you are not going to use it for a car, I would put some 50x50 mm battens down, lay 50mm rigid insulation between them, and board over the top with water resistant chipboard or MDF.
In winter, you'll be doing your feet a massive favour. Also, it's much more comfortable to walk/stand on a floor that's not entirely rigid, however cold it is.

Edit: Actually, forget about the battens. Just lay the MDF/chipboard directly on the rigid insulation.


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## raleighnut (9 Jan 2021)

slowmotion said:


> It's probably got a concrete floor. If you are not going to use it for a car, I would put some 50x50 mm battens down, lay 50mm rigid insulation between them, and board over the top with water resistant chipboard or MDF.
> In winter, you'll be doing your feet a massive favour. Also, it's much more comfortable to walk/stand on a floor that's not entirely rigid, however cold it is.
> 
> Edit: Actually, forget about the battens. Just lay the MDF/chipboard directly on the rigid insulation.


I'd do the floor first, that way the wall insulation/boarding will be off the concrete floor and will be warmer. it's like the 'pro' way of installing laminate/engineered wood flooring (take the fricking skirting boards off) so you dont have that unsightly 'quarter round' moulding that's the mark of a DIYer


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## bikingdad90 (9 Jan 2021)

Personally I would get the extension finished as no doubt as soon as you start pulling stuff out you will find a load of problems and you will find it will take twice as long as anticipated to do the work!


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## BianchiVirgin (9 Jan 2021)

Use a composite board on the ceiling which will be an insulated plaster board mix. This will eliminate the cold spots where the joists are. You could add more above in the attic space too but that would save you having to empty it and also doesn't semi-bury any existing wiring. You'll lose about 50mm is ceiling hight though.


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## steveindenmark (9 Jan 2021)

I hate it when people post stuff like this. I have to hide the phone so Jannie doesnt see it 😁


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## jowwy (9 Jan 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> So I've decided that whilst I'm already mid-DIY adventure with the front extension it would be a great idea to break away for a week or so and insulate the garage  In the last few years I've made some improvements by replacing the main garage door with an insulated electric roller-shutter and the personnel door with a nice insulated composite door but there's no getting away from the fact it's a single skin stand-alone garage. If it's freezing outside it's freezing inside  Since I've made the space much more usable recently it seems daft not to finish it off with some insulation so I can use it comfortably year-round.
> 
> To that end I've ordered lots of insulation  Plan is:
> 
> ...


All sounds like top work, but as others have said I would do the floor first. Put damp proof membrane down on the floor first and then 50mm celotex all over and then ply board or osb it. Then when you come to do the walls, you can seal the lower sills of the wall to the floor to prevent cold spots. On the walls make sure you leave an air gap between wall and insulation of around 25mm. You can do that by screwing some extra battens in between the insulation and wall before adding it so it doesn’t push back onto the wall while taping........

also is there anyway of you doing the roof from the outside rather than inside?????....

remove felt/shingles......50mm batten all around the edge, lay 50mm celotex insulation, cover with osb And then re-shingle/felt. That way you keep the joist in the garage uncovered and no need to leave an air gap, which is more difficult on the inside of the roof.

also don’t forget ventilation if your going to add heating.


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jan 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> Plan is: [snipped]



Sounds exactly what I ought to do with my garage except I wouldn’t know how.
So how much would the job cost if you got a professional in to do it?


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## jowwy (9 Jan 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Sounds exactly what I ought to do with my garage except I wouldn’t know how.
> So how much would the job cost if you got a professional in to do it?


materials around £500
labour around double that amount.......prob take a week or two


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> materials around £500
> labour around double that amount.......prob take a week or two



Sounds alright. Only problem I need to solve is where to put all the stuff that’s in there while it’s done!


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## jowwy (9 Jan 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Sounds alright. Only problem I need to solve is where to put all the stuff that’s in there while it’s done!


Materials may cost more were you live, so factor that into the equation. I have seen quotes for this work close to 3 to 5k........but it shouldn’t be anywhere near that.

i did 3 walls of the man cave and floor for less than £500, but I did it all myself. This year I’m rebuilding the front wall with new windows and doors and insulation the roof.


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> Materials may cost more were you live, so factor that into the equation. I have seen quotes for this work close to 3 to 5k........but it shouldn’t be anywhere near that.
> 
> i did 3 walls of the man cave and floor for less than £500, but I did it all myself. This year I’m rebuilding the front wall with new windows and doors and insulation the roof.



I’ll check with my local builder guy, he just lives up the road and did our major house renovation a few years ago.


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## fossyant (9 Jan 2021)

Detatched garage with 'loft space' Too many bikes, roof racks and tools in mine. MrsF bought me 3 floor to ceiling shelving units a few Xmas'es ago and even with them and a steel cabinet, there is still too much 'stuff'.

Watching with interest !


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## cougie uk (9 Jan 2021)

I like my garage to be cold. Perfect for turbo training and even then I still need fans.


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## JhnBssll (9 Jan 2021)

Thanks for all the input guys - Where to start?! 

Regarding the concrete floor, I intend to leave it uninsulated - simply because I've got an engine crane that gets used occasionally, and the combined mass of the crane and serveral hundred kilos of engine rolling around on it worries me a bit  I may re-think that later, but retrofitting insulation to the floor shouldn't be too much of a faff as long as I leave some vapour barrier accessible at the bottom of the walls to seal against.

re. air gaps, yes I will batten the walls with dpc between timber and brickwork, then put the insulation board on top of that to leave the 25mm gap.

re. insulating the roof externally this would be a much bigger task than doing it internally since it's joined to next doors garage and shares the same tiled roof. I'm going to batten the rafters (they're only 70mm deep) then fit 50mm celotex internally with a 50mm air gap between the board and the felt above it. That should do the job, but I will need to cut ventilation in to the soffits as they're unvented at the moment.

@jowwy - what thickness of insulation board did you use, and what sort of temperatures are you maintaining? Are you heating it? Would be interesting to know what I might be able to achieve, but I'm sure it'll be better than it is now


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## JhnBssll (9 Jan 2021)

I've made a bit of progress today with items 1 and 2 on my list - I had a bit of a clear out and then ripped all the old board out of the roof. This is what the previous owner had "installed" and I had put up with for a decade 







and now...






Loads better already  I had to carefully mark where the projector was mounted before i took the old boards down to try and avoid messing around with the vinyl screen on the garage door 






Fortunately I seem to have it back where it was originally and all lines up  Everything was covered in frost by the time I'd piled it back in for the night, -0.6 outside and +2.9 inside which rather sums up why I'm going to these lengths  I've left a couple of boards loose and a few missing in the corner where the fan is so I can pass insulation up - I nearly forgot 






I've got a loft ladder to collect from screwfix when its available, then I'll be able to get in and out of the roof space easily and get to work insulating up there. Once thats done I'll move some stuff up and prepare to strip everything off the walls  No going back then  I currently have no idea when the insulation will arrive so no planned timeline on this one, it'll get done as and when to fit around the other jobs


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## Gunk (9 Jan 2021)

fossyant said:


> Detatched garage with 'loft space' Too many bikes, roof racks and tools in mine. MrsF bought me 3 floor to ceiling shelving units a few Xmas'es ago and even with them and a steel cabinet, there is still too much 'stuff'.
> 
> Watching with interest !



I have the same problem!


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## Ridgeway (9 Jan 2021)

He builds wheels, restores Bromptons, fettles Italian Carbon super bike, extends his house and now this

Us mere mortals have no chance


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## JhnBssll (9 Jan 2021)

Ridgeway said:


> He builds wheels, restores Bromptons, fettles Italian Carbon super bike, extends his house and now this
> 
> Us mere mortals have no chance



 I like to keep busy thats for sure


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## jowwy (9 Jan 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> Thanks for all the input guys - Where to start?!
> 
> Regarding the concrete floor, I intend to leave it uninsulated - simply because I've got an engine crane that gets used occasionally, and the combined mass of the crane and serveral hundred kilos of engine rolling around on it worries me a bit  I may re-think that later, but retrofitting insulation to the floor shouldn't be too much of a faff as long as I leave some vapour barrier accessible at the bottom of the walls to seal against.
> 
> ...


I only went 25mm John and then 12.5mm plaster board on top. I do heat it in the winter but only 2 x 30min Blasts of heat from an 800watt oil filled radiator and it stays above freezing. But I haven’t done the roof yet or the main front wall.......

that’s a job I’m doing this spring/summer


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## jowwy (9 Jan 2021)

Obviously mine is a timber clad man cave rather than a garage though.......and it’s 3.6mtrs x 2.4mtrs

22mm tongue and groove, 25mm celotex and 12.5mm plaster boards





so in the summer I will be insulating the roof from above with 25mm celotex and 12mm osb and will refelt.

The whole front will be taken off and rebuilt with 50mm celotex, new thermal door and a double glazed window, will then be clad with half log tongue and groove


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## Lookrider (9 Jan 2021)

You mentioned the secure work bench...I had inherited the same ..
Ripped it out and made a mobile bench from most of it ...a bench on castors allows you loads of usable space as you can move it around as the garage gets filled up/emptied all the time 
Walls ..i put slatwall on my garage ..that's the stuff you see in all the shops ..its brilliant stuff 
never again drill the wall as any hooks slot in neatly everywhere ....
Its already painted white to reflect heat and light ....
Its 18mm MDF giving high insulation .
And I got mine from an empty shop for free...theres empty shops every where just ask around 
Its made a massive improvement to the look of my walls ..I now call my garage the bike shop 
For units I got tambour doors 
These slide open I to tbe unit save g space ad theres no door to open at right angles 
It also works good as you cam leave them open when at work and you cam see what's inside 
As opposed to opening g and closing g doors to find what you have hidden away somewhere 

Every other material like celotex I would source on gumtree ..again builders will have piles of offcuts lying around ...or visit a large builder or roofer or even ask where you see a new house/extension being built 
They gladly give you it as they need to pay to get rid if it 

Good luck ..you seem to know what to do anyways


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## GM (9 Jan 2021)

Taking a keen interest in your project John as I'm doing virtually the same. I started mine the beginning of September a little break after I finished my front wall. First job was to get the old asbestos roof removed by specialist. Then build up the side walls and put in door and window lintels, the old 30's built just had timber which was rotting away. Then joists, 18mm exterior ply, roof window, covered with EPDM. Which is where I'm up to, electrics and cladding the walls ceiling starting soon.


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## JhnBssll (9 Jan 2021)

Lookrider said:


> You mentioned the secure work bench...I had inherited the same ..
> Ripped it out and made a mobile bench from most of it ...a bench on castors allows you loads of usable space as you can move it around as the garage gets filled up/emptied all the time
> Walls ..i put slatwall on my garage ..that's the stuff you see in all the shops ..its brilliant stuff
> never again drill the wall as any hooks slot in neatly everywhere ....
> ...



The workbench is really good, there are a few bits I would do differently but whoever built it has done a decent job - it would probably withstand a small thermonuclear explosion  If I didn't need to insulate behind it I would keep it in place but unfortunately it needs to come out. It's all nailed together and I fear I'm going to have to destroy it to move it, so I doubt theres much chance of it going back together afterwards  I have been thinking along the lines of a worktop on metal legs with a couple of tool chests on wheels underneath, so similar to your suggestion  I'm just ordering up some screws and plastic washers for the insulation board but at some point I'll have a go at working out a nice space-efficient layout for the new permanent fixtures


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## Drago (10 Jan 2021)

I love these threads that JhnBssl (sureky a pseudonym for Jacqueline Bisset?) does, pictures and all. Great stuff.


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## jowwy (10 Jan 2021)

GM said:


> Taking a keen interest in your project John as I'm doing virtually the same. I started mine the beginning of September a little break after I finished my front wall. First job was to get the old asbestos roof removed by specialist. Then build up the side walls and put in door and window lintels, the old 30's built just had timber which was rotting away. Then joists, 18mm exterior ply, roof window, covered with EPDM. Which is where I'm up to, electrics and cladding the walls ceiling starting soon.


Any picture of the project.....we like pictures don’t we John.


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## GM (10 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> Any picture of the project.....we like pictures don’t we John.




I was just about to edit my post with some. So here's a few, more as I progress!


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## jowwy (10 Jan 2021)

GM said:


> I was just about to edit my post with some. So here's a few, more as I progress!
> 
> View attachment 568212
> View attachment 568213
> ...


Looks good....what you going to use it for???

sorry for derailing your thread John


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## GM (10 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> Looks good....what you going to use it for???
> 
> sorry for derailing your thread John




My hide out come man cave ...Bikes and a couple bits of gym equipment, turbo, rowing machine, at the far end. I'm toying with either a Pottery wheel, Lathe or a Pool table at the front. Basically to try and keep it clutter free.


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## jowwy (10 Jan 2021)

GM said:


> My hide out come man cave ...Bikes and a couple bits of gym equipment, turbo, rowing machine, at the far end. I'm toying with either a Pottery wheel, Lathe or a Pool table at the front. Basically to try and keep it clutter free.


Nice - I like seeing these type of self build projects. It helps when putting ideas together for my own rebuild and gardens etc etc


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## JhnBssll (10 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> Looks good....what you going to use it for???
> 
> sorry for derailing your thread John



Not at all, the more the better. One of the reasons I love posting in forums about these things are the great ideas other people have that I can steal 



GM said:


> I was just about to edit my post with some. So here's a few, more as I progress!
> 
> View attachment 568212
> View attachment 568213
> ...



Looks great, that's going to be a cracking space to be in when it's done  I'd like to do a self build at some point in the future and skylights in a nice roomy heated workshop are now on the priority list


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## jowwy (10 Jan 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> Not at all, the more the better. One of the reasons I love posting in forums about these things are the great ideas other people have that I can steal
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great, that's going to be a cracking space to be in when it's done  I'd like to do a self build at some point in the future and skylights in a nice roomy heated workshop are now on the priority list


What type of heating are you going for in the garage/workshop John??

im watching a series on Netflix at the moment called tiny house nation.....get lots of ideas from these sorts of programmes.


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## jowwy (14 Jan 2021)

anymore updates john??


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## fossyant (14 Jan 2021)

I need to sort my garage roof space out.


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## jowwy (14 Jan 2021)

fossyant said:


> I need to sort my garage roof space out.


lets see the mess fossy....before and after shots too


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## fossyant (14 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> lets see the mess fossy....before and after shots too



No !


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## Phaeton (14 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> so in the summer I will be insulating the roof from above with 25mm celotex and 12mm osb and will refelt.


Instead of felting consider the galvanised corrugated sheets, they are so much easier to use & will last a lot longer than felt. 3M x 1M ones around here are £20ish.


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## JhnBssll (14 Jan 2021)

Nothing at the moment - I've had some timber delivered for battens, ordered some screws and the insulation should be here on Tuesday. I have a loft ladder to fit at some point too, and I'm just mulling over whether or not to reinforce the trusses before I start. I suspect I will leave them as is on the basis that nothing heavy will be going up there but will decide one way or another before I start screwing things to the walls


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## jowwy (14 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Instead of felting consider the galvanised corrugated sheets, they are so much easier to use & will last a lot longer than felt. 3M x 1M ones around here are £20ish.


i would need around 10 sheets of corrugated, then by the time you add the pins, then the ridge caps, then the moldings to stop birds, pests etc etc getting under the ridges....its just not cost effective to me

5 x 3mtr lengths of felt every 3/4yrs is way more cost effective


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## Phaeton (14 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> i would need around 10 sheets of corrugated, then by the time you add the pins, then the ridge caps, then the moldings to stop birds, pests etc etc getting under the ridges....its just not cost effective to me
> 
> 5 x 3mtr lengths of felt every 3/4yrs is way more cost effective


Not sure where you get 10 sheets from, you'd only need 3x 13ft/4m sheets, if it's 3.6x2.4 as you stated, but just a thought.


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## jowwy (14 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Not sure where you get 10 sheets from, you'd only need 3x 13ft/4m sheets, if it's 3.6x2.4 as you stated, but just a thought.


the roof is pitched - so the length of the shed is 3.6mtrs - the roof is 2mts long x 2.4mtrs wide and theres two sections

so for one section it will be minimum of 3 sheets per roof section, with ensuring you overlap at the seems, then you will need a 2.4mtr length of ridge cap to bring the six sections together at the ridge.......so no its not just 3 sheets needed


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## JhnBssll (14 Jan 2021)

I fitted the ladder this evening. I've also finished mulling, and decided to reinforce the roof with some extra timbers.

Heres the ladder, nicely stowed away 😊






Whilst on the turbo earlier I kept looking around at the options and kept coming back to this block pier...






It's exactly halfway down the garage, but only on one side. I figured it really wouldn't take much effort to build a matching pier opposite it as I have blocks spare, so I'll bolt some wall starters to the bricks and stack some blocks up at some point  I've then got some 50x150 timber left over from building the new roof, so I'll put a couple of lengths of that across between the two piers, halving the span of the existing trusses. That should strengthen it up a bit on it's own, but then I've also ordered some lengths of 70x45 (the existing truss chords are 70x30) to put an extra length in between each truss, halving the spacing from 620 to 310 centres. It's still not perfect, but it'll be a lot better than just piling things on the trusses and as I've said before, I don't intend to store much up there anyway 

This causes some logistical problems as it means I need to rip the cupboards and bench out before I really wanted to in order to build the new pier, unless I can sling all the timber up first and build the pier up under it at the end  I'll have to think about it a bit more


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## Phaeton (16 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> the roof is pitched - so the length of the shed is 3.6mtrs - the roof is 2mts long x 2.4mtrs wide and theres two sections
> 
> so for one section it will be minimum of 3 sheets per roof section, with ensuring you overlap at the seems, then you will need a 2.4mtr length of ridge cap to bring the six sections together at the ridge.......so no its not just 3 sheets needed


Are you always this aggressive in real life or is this just your keyboard warrior persona coming through, do you have anger issues?

For explanation, each sheet is 4M long, which means even with your slope on your roof a single sheet will do both sides of the roof (if cut in the middle), they are 1.2M wide with a coverage of 1M, so will only require 3 sheets. It was only a suggestion which in future I will clearly keep to myself when you are concerned, because on all topics you clearly know best, sorry for trying to be helpful, you have a nice life now.


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## Milkfloat (16 Jan 2021)

I had an insulated garage at my last house, despite fitting an allegedly thermally efficient roller door it was still very cold in winter. I was also warned about having too much weight on the roof trusses, despite not having too much up there.


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## jowwy (16 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Are you always this aggressive in real life or is this just your keyboard warrior persona coming through, do you have anger issues?


So explaining my situation to you means I’m an aggressive keyboard warrior with anger issues.....ok.

I sometimes wonder to myself why is it only this forum that doesn’t like people having a different opinion. On the other 5 forums I am on, I have zero issues like i do on this one.....strange isn’t it.

have a nice day.


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## JhnBssll (16 Jan 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I had an insulated garage at my last house, despite fitting an allegedly thermally efficient roller door it was still very cold in winter. I was also warned about having too much weight on the roof trusses, despite not having too much up there.



Yeah, the roller shutter will definitely be the weak link by the time everything else is insulated. My expectation is just to be able to heat it to a reasonable temperature while I'm in there. If I can make it 10 degrees warmer inside than it is outside it would make the space useable even on the coldest days of winter, anything more than that is a bonus. I don't need it to retain the heat for any period after I've gone back indoors either so hopefully I'm not asking for too much but time will tell 

Regarding the trusses, yeah its best not to put much weight on them unsupported. They're designed to work in tension, the chord timber along the bottom isn't generally designed to hold any weight other than that of an insulated plasterboard ceiling, so if you've got no ceiling there's a bit of spare capacity to use but not much. I'm essentially building a secondary timber frame to share the load which should allow a greater margin of safety when putting things up there, myself included


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## JhnBssll (16 Jan 2021)

The timber arrived this morning for the roof reinforcement so I've made a start in between looking after mrsbssll who seems to have come down with something - fingers crossed its not the dreaded lurgy 

So far I've got 6 of the 8 new joists up but have only got pictures with the middle ones in place.







The very ends are sitting on the wall plates as you can see here...






The rest of the length of each new joist is currently screwed through the boards above to keep it in place - once the cross beam goes in it will support everything across the middle too. Speaking of the cross beam, I've got it cut to length and ready to go in...






It's a decent sized bit of timber at 50x150x2550 so should do the job  It's going to sit right in front of the projector so I assumed I would have to drop that down a bit or lose the top of the image but having measured it seems it will miss by about 5mm  It's almost as if it were meant to be 

I'm considering bolting a wall plate to the brickwork to sit the beam on rather than building up a block pier, I'll look at the load ratings of the wall bolts I've got and go from there. a blockwork pier seems overkill, it's not like I'm building a proper floor to make the roof space habitable. I will be putting some damp proof membrane between the brickwork and any timber on that end though as it's an exposed single skin wall and I don't want it rotting!


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## JhnBssll (17 Jan 2021)

I made a decision re. wall plate or blockwork pier. The decision was made easier when I realised there's an external brick pier running up the wall giving it some extra strength where the cross beam was to be installed, so I drilled some 16mm holes in to the existing pier, filled them with resin and knocked some wall bolts in. They're now tightened down, it'll take a while for the resin to cure as it's pretty cold but should be set within an hour or so 










There are still a few screws to wind in, you may have noticed a few of the new joists are slightly wonky still as there are things in the way like my big fan - that will get moved later and the timber fixed in to its final position as I'm still using the fan for the turbo currently  The joists/trusses are now at 310mm centres with a maximum span of 2.6m which is far more acceptable - previously they were at 620 centres with a span of 5.2m. Should be significantly stronger now, strong enough at least for the few boxes of crap I'll be slinging up there and for me to walk around without too much concern while i'm fixing the insulation 






Clearance under the centre beam is 2.25m so still a decent height, I won't be bumping my head on it anyway  In the photo above you can probably see why I was concerned about blocking the projector image - Seems my measurements were about spot on, here you can see how much the image misses the bottom of the beam by... 






Anyway, now that's done there a few bits to tidy up before the insulation arrives on Tuesday, then I'll make a start fitting that up in the roof  Once thats in I can store as much as needed back up there while I gut the rest of the garage ready to do the walls 😊


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## jowwy (18 Jan 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> I made a decision re. wall plate or blockwork pier. The decision was made easier when I realised there's an external brick pier running up the wall giving it some extra strength where the cross beam was to be installed, so I drilled some 16mm holes in to the existing pier, filled them with resin and knocked some wall bolts in. They're now tightened down, it'll take a while for the resin to cure as it's pretty cold but should be set within an hour or so
> 
> View attachment 569399
> 
> ...


I got the itch to go an rebuild the front of my manporium now, but can’t until we start getting decent weather.......


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## fossyant (18 Jan 2021)

That's a lot of timber, you storing parts from a WW2 tank up there ?


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## straas (18 Jan 2021)

I'm looking forward to the next thread "How do you keep yourself cool when zwifting in an insulated box"


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## bagpuss (19 Jan 2021)

I refurbished my prefab garage 20 years ago, which was money well spent imho.
I applied for planning permission to remove old prefab and replace it with slightly larger brick built one which would have been attached to our house. Could not get it passed, due to objections from next door. So re-roofed old prefab with insulated steel cladding . That made a big difference .
Followed this up by insulating the main door and walls . 
This was done with help from big brother .
Two inch batons fixed to walls at regular intervals . Polystyrene sheets fitted between them . Wiring for power points also intalled at this stage.
Finally boarded over with mdf sheets . Pva sealed boards prior to emulsion . Sealed concrete floor with floor paint . Later usde off cuts of laminate flooring . 
Warm in winter, cool in summer . 
Single tube heater keeps the chill off . I use a small fan heater when fettling bikes .


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## jowwy (19 Jan 2021)

straas said:


> I'm looking forward to the next thread "How do you keep yourself cool when zwifting in an insulated box"


John will add an aircon unit........


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## Salty seadog (19 Jan 2021)

What a rubbish shed, I'm surprised it's still standing..... 

Oh wait, I misread the title.


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## JhnBssll (31 Jan 2021)

I had some spare time today so I have started installing insulation in the roof space 😊 It's going quite well so far, I've covered a little over half of the roof and eaves






I've screwed 20x30mm battens to the bottom of the truss timber to give a total depth of 90mm - with the 50mm insulation added it gives a 40mm ventilation gap above which should be enough to keep it dry up there once I've fitted some soffit vents.






Here you can see where the fan is in the way of the last few boards which need to go down before the wall insulation can be screwed to the truss and the roof pieces cut to size and fitted.






I've got two smaller fans arriving tomorrow to fit to the ceiling then I can remove this one and finish the corner off before I continue with the other side. Once the roof space is done I can shift all the stuff back up to store and have a good tidy before I think about the plan for attacking the walls!


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## JhnBssll (1 Feb 2021)

The new fans arrived today 😊 Relatively cheap, I had considered a Wahoo Headwind to make a matching set with the Kickr and Climb but £200 seems a lot for something that's going to get beaten up in the garage and eventually common sense prevailed 






I plugged them both in to check they worked properly then promptly drilled two holes in each of their bases and bolted them to the ceiling 






I'll run them off an extension cord for now and sort the electrics out properly once the walls are insulated, it will all need changing anyway at that point. It does mean I can now get cracking with removing the old fan and finishing the joists and boards off in that corner so I can get on with the insulation 

I have the afternoon off work tomorrow for my Great Aunt's funeral (bless her) - once I'm home I might climb in to the roof and make some more progress if I feel like it 😊 I'm really looking forward to getting the garage tidy now - it's a bit depressing seeing it in this state, will be worth it though


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## Drago (2 Feb 2021)

I'm a twot. Been following this thread avidly, but despite that when i logged on this morning and thought it read *"Insulting the garage*". I thought youd taken your car in for some work and had a bust up with them, and gleefully clicked hoping to see the salacuous details. 

I guess I was wrong


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## JhnBssll (2 Feb 2021)

Drago said:


> I'm a twot. Been following this thread avidly, but despite that when i logged on this morning and thought it read *"Insulting the garage*". I thought youd taken your car in for some work and had a bust up with them, and gleefully clicked hoping to see the salacuous details.
> 
> I guess I was wrong



After my local VW dealer caused the engine to fall out of my last car while I was driving this is a completely understandable mistake


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## fossyant (2 Feb 2021)

Looking good, that should be very toasty.


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## JhnBssll (7 Feb 2021)

I've spent pretty much the whole day up in the garage roof today and have finished insulating the roof and gables. Unfortunately I've run-out of foil tape so there are still a few joins to seal but otherwise I'm done above the rafters 







It has already made a difference to the temperature in the garage. Normally the internal temperature tracks around 1 degree warmer than outside, but its already tracking around 4 degrees warmer and I suspect warmer still in the roof 😊






Next job is to tidy up the chaos I've created


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## MichaelW2 (7 Feb 2021)

Late to the party here but when it comes to insulation, I did my 1970s bathroom extension ( 3 exterior walls + flat roof) with 2cm thick Marmox Multiboard. 3cm is recommended but 2cm seems to work find.
It fits to brickwork easily using metal screws in plastic plugs or their plastic "nails" in plastic plugs. The board is a sandwitch of fibreglass cement facing with foam inner. The facing is ready for tile or plaster skim so may not be best if you just want a ready made surface.
It is watetproof and can be cut and shaped by hand very easily so you dont have to leave gaps.
It comes in 1.25m and I think 2.4m high boards.


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## Archie_tect (7 Feb 2021)

For guidance, google 'U-value' and 'interstitial condensation' ...


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## JhnBssll (7 Feb 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> For guidance, google 'U-value' and 'interstitial condensation' ...



Thanks Archie, I was a mechanical building services engineer for a few years out of university, I've done my time calculating heat loss and rad sizing  I'm not overly concerned about interstitial condensation because I won't be heating the space apart from the very odd occasion but it is something I'm aware of and will keep an eye out for  Worst case scenario is I have to take the insulation out again but I'm pretty confident it won't come to that, there are various options to try before then. I've thought about fitting a heat exchanger ventilation fan at the apex of the roof to minimise the moisture build up when I'm on the turbo but will see how I get on 😊


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## jowwy (21 Feb 2021)

Any updates john????


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## JhnBssll (21 Feb 2021)

jowwy said:


> Any updates john????



Not just yet, I've got a few bits and bobs to do in order to call the roof area finished before I move on to the main walls. I picked up some soffit vents yesterday which are needed to allow airflow above the roof insulation to prevent it getting damp. I also need to finish taping the joints up there. Initial impressions are great though, the garage is already noticably warmer just from doing the roof - I put a 2kW fan heater on the other day when it was -1 outside and 0 inside, within half an hour or so it was 5 degrees in the garage and had I left it on long enough I suspect it would have kept climbing. Previously the temperature didn't change at all, so I had to run the heater constantly and stand next to it 

After this months pay hits the bank I'll look in to buying some new wall racks for the bikes then start on insulating the walls - Ive decided to tackle the garage in small chunks to minimise disruption  I'll do the bike storage quarter first and work out from there


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## JhnBssll (10 Mar 2021)

Small update, I've ordered some more timber which should be arriving on Monday. The bike racks arrived this morning and look the part, as soon as the timber arrives I can make a start  I haven't ordered the OSB yet simply because I have nowhere to store it except the garage where it will be in the way  I think I'll end up ordering it in small batches and accept the fact I'll be paying a bit more for delivery. I've decided to use 11mm OSB rather than 18mm which seems a bit overkill 😄

Here is my small collection of SteadyRack's, hopefully they live up to the hype but they seem very well put together at first glance 😊


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## JhnBssll (20 Mar 2021)

I spent the afternoon in the garage today. I cleared the corner where the bikes are stored then removed everything from the wall, including all the old bike hangers. I had some timber delivered during the week that is the same depth as the battens + insulation to mount the new Steadyrack's to so I started measuring, cutting and drilling. Eventually the bikes were back on the wall in their new cradles and all the stuff that had been put out on the lawn was back indoors  I'm really pleased with the new racks - I've spaced them slightly further apart than before; combined with the extra pivot angle I've freed up a decent amount of space despite the overall width of the garage getting slightly smaller 











All of the electrics still need to be moved along with the hose at the bottom of the wall which feeds a hose reel outside the garage. I might get some more done tomorrow if I get an opportunity, it would be nice to get some batons on and start putting the insulation up!


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## GM (26 Mar 2021)

JhnBssll said:


> Small update, I've ordered some more timber which should be arriving on Monday. The bike racks arrived this morning and look the part, as soon as the timber arrives I can make a start  I haven't ordered the OSB yet simply because I have nowhere to store it except the garage where it will be in the way  I think I'll end up ordering it in small batches and accept the fact I'll be paying a bit more for delivery. I've decided to use 11mm OSB rather than 18mm which seems a bit overkill 😄
> 
> Here is my small collection of SteadyRack's, hopefully they live up to the hype but they seem very well put together at first glance 😊
> 
> View attachment 578036




They look the business those racks , but being on a pensioners budget I've had to make do with Velo Hinge racks for my project. Very happy with them though!


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## bagpuss (7 Apr 2021)

I sometimes surprise myself what I crammed into my small garage ......er yes I have a problem


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## bikingdad90 (7 Apr 2021)

@bagpuss i count 21 bikes in total?


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## Tenacious Sloth (7 Apr 2021)

bagpuss said:


> I sometimes surprise myself what I crammed into my small garage ......er yes I have a problem
> View attachment 582806



I suspect that like many on here, I showed your picture to my wife to show her how lucky she is and that I don’t, in fact, have a bike problem.

Thanks. Keep them coming.


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## bagpuss (7 Apr 2021)

bikingdad90 said:


> @bagpuss i count 21 bikes in total?



I only have two hands,so 10 as far I am concerned....thats what I tell MrsB


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