# Everyone should make the Netherlands a destination.



## galgoman (25 May 2018)

Growing up and riding most of my life in America, I can honestly say the US generally is not a bike friendly nation. There are parts of the country that have made great strides on this front but overall, taking to the road in most parts is like playing Russian Roulette.. About 20 years ago I met my wife, a Dutch citizen, not through riding fast bikes but through rescuing and adopting fast dogs, the Galgo Espanol. Be that as it may, for several years as we long distanced dated I made several trips to the Netherlands for extended periods and the first thing I did on arrival was not rent a car but rented a touring bicycle. We toured most of the country by pedal power and the amazing system of bike paths, roadside sign maps and priority given to the cyclist is a thing of beauty. This is not new news to Europeans but to the Americans here, do yourself a favor and plan a trip to the Netherlands. The rides are not that challenging unless you face an incessant head wind which is common but if you want to experience what a bike culture utopia feels like, this is a must do trip.


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## mmmmartin (25 May 2018)

Also look at Vrienden op de Fiets, brilliant idea that can work only in a country with a sense of responsibility and civic mindedness. €20 for B&B with cyclists. 
Also at https://www.natuurkampeerterreinen.nl/en/ - fantastic little campsites, quiet, simple, excellent. (Be aware the grid ref for each site is correct but you have to understand the Dutch grid.)


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## Jimidh (25 May 2018)

Nope I like my hill climbing.


Seriously I do like Holland and their bike culture but it wouldn’t be my 1st choice biking destination.


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## galgoman (25 May 2018)

I get it. I am a climber also but I personally have found riding in a strong headwind or crosswind for hours, harder than any climb I have ever made.


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## pawl (26 May 2018)

galgoman said:


> I get it. I am a climber also but I personally have found riding in a strong headwind or crosswind for hours, harder than any climb I have ever made.




Even more annoying is when you are descending a hill that you free wheel down at30MPH only to find there is a howling block head blowing and you have to pedal to maintain 15 MPH


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## Venod (26 May 2018)

Jimidh said:


> Nope I like my hill climbing.


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## derrick (26 May 2018)

Belgium for me. The beer is so good.But i really love the Spanish mountains.


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## HobbesOnTour (26 May 2018)

galgoman said:


> if you want to experience what a bike culture utopia feels like, this is a must do trip.



It is a bike utopia! A great place for anyone to test their abilities in a perfectly safe environment. No language issues - everyone speaks English, short distances if that's your thing, lots and lots of camping sites and lots to see and do. A major plus point is the accessibility of trains for bikes. Pretty much every train has space for bikes, a ticket for about Euro 6 will get your bike transported for a day. And most of the stations have lifts/ramps to make it easy peasy to get your bike on and off. If an electric bike is your thing, just about all cafes on cycling paths have chargers.

A lot of people think that it's flat and boring. There is an argument to be made for that, but there is a wide variety of landscapes from the big urban areas (well made cycle paths make it easy), lots of canal & river routes, rural farmland, sand dunes & moor areas, coastline and some hills in Gelderland (around Arnhem) and Limburg. Good route planning will pay off.



Jimidh said:


> Nope I like my hill climbing.
> Seriously I do like Holland and their bike culture but it wouldn’t be my 1st choice biking destination.



Try Limburg for the hills - south west of NL at the border of Germany & Belgium. Fantastic riding. Not long climbs, but lots of short, sharp ascents & descents.
I live in NL and have toured in lots of Europe. It's only in the last couple of years that I've started taking short tours here and have been very pleasantly surprised at what there is to see and do - even in winter. Travel by car in NL you see the motorways, travel on a bike you see everything!



derrick said:


> Belgium for me. The beer is so good.But i really love the Spanish mountains.


Belgium is fantastic! Just a bit more chaotic than NL. Food is better, beer is better and the accent is better! 
So far, for me, Spain is the King & Queen of cycling destinations! I learned to love mountains in Spain!


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## derrick (26 May 2018)

Calpe for me.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1417128724


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## lane (26 May 2018)

My tours are currently limited to three or four days in length, so Normandy, Belgium and Holland are the realistic options together with the UK. Enjoyed Belgium a couple of years ago and it will be Holland next weekend, although to give us something to aim for we are intending to get to Germany.


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## galgoman (26 May 2018)

My first visit to the Netherlands years ago I agreed to meet my future wife at her work at the end of the day and we would ride home together. It was only about 20-25km away. Unprepared, I headed off in a cold driving rain and headwind and by the time I finally got there I must have looked like I just climbed the Alpe D'Huez. Ha.


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## User169 (26 May 2018)

It’s fantastic for utility riding and general pootling. Not so good for sport riding though. No hills bar the very south in Limburg and limited off-road opportunities. The better audaxes here head off to Belgium or Germany for the better riding to be had there. 

The huge rise in e-bike use is going to create problems, especially the speed jobs which seem to be exclusively ridden by lunatics.


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## User169 (27 May 2018)

User13710 said:


> The presence of 'sport riders' in chain gangs and mopeds and motor scooters on the cycle paths in the Netherlands are the two things that mar the experience a bit for me....



It’s warm and sunny today, so the “wielerterroriesten” were out in force this morning. It’s quite unnerving to have a 40 strong peloton riding two abreast heading towards you on a narrow cycle path at in excess of 40kmh. And it wasn’t just one - there was a procession of these groups. Mix in a few families out for a gentle Sunday ride, numerous dog walkers and the out of control oldies on e-bikes and it wasn’t my idea of bike nirvana.


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## srw (27 May 2018)

*Memories of the canals between Bruges and Ostend on the 2016 FNRttK, when an ill-disciplined club peleton swept through our small and tired group at full speed, so @rvw and I played them at their own game, caught up with them and got about half-way through their group before running out of puff. They weren't very happy about a tandem riding with more skill and speed than them, especially since my stoker was sitting up rather than on the drops.*


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## User169 (27 May 2018)

Mind you, at 7:30 this morning I had the place to myself.


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## User169 (27 May 2018)

srw said:


> *Memories of the canals between Bruges and Ostend on the 2016 FNRttK, when an ill-disciplined club peleton swept through our small and tired group at full speed, so @rvw and I played them at their own game, caught up with them and got about half-way through their group before running out of puff. They weren't very happy about a tandem riding with more skill and speed than them, especially since my stoker was sitting up rather than on the drops.*



Sounds like the bike equivalent of a punishment pass. Ok, they were being dicks, but you made a bad situation more dangerous


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## Blue Hills (27 May 2018)

DP said:


> It’s warm and sunny today, so the “wielerterroriesten” were out in force this morning. It’s quite unnerving to have a 40 strong peloton riding two abreast heading towards you on a narrow cycle path at in excess of 40kmh. And it wasn’t just one - there was a procession of these groups. Mix in a few families out for a gentle Sunday ride, numerous dog walkers and the out of control oldies on e-bikes and it wasn’t my idea of bike nirvana.


I'm surprised there aren't rules against that. Sounds very dangerous.


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## Blue Hills (27 May 2018)

DP said:


> Mind you, at 7:30 this morning I had the place to myself.
> View attachment 411264


something spooky about that picture. Makes me think of an ambush. Watch the long grass.


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## srw (27 May 2018)

DP said:


> Sounds like the bike equivalent of a punishment pass. Ok, they were being dicks, but you made a bad situation more dangerous


Guilty as charged, m'lud.

In mitigation before sentencing I would lay before the court the fact that the increase in risk was marginal and may well have resulted in improved training for the club, so in the long run increasing the absolute level of risk.

Besides, it was fun.


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## User169 (27 May 2018)

srw said:


> Besides, it was fun.


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## lane (27 May 2018)

User13710 said:


> It's that thing of 'there's a cycle path, therefore you must use it'. Sometimes the road would be smoother and nicer to ride on as well.



I don't know about Holland but will find out in a few days - but in Belgium it seemed to be compulsory to use the cyclepath rather than the road. However the cycle infrstucture was excellent. We used a road by mistake and drivers were not happy.


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## galgoman (27 May 2018)

Over here in the US I would love to encounter other riders to join up with. In most parts here, it can be a suicide mission to expect any space on the roads since few places offer any bike lanes or paths. Here you first hear the deep rumble of a pick-up truck coming behind you, laying on the horn starting at least 200 meters away and the complimentary middle fingers raised out the window as they rev their engine as they pass.


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## lane (27 May 2018)

User13710 said:


> That is what I mean. Segregated facilities are not a panacea.



I suppose there is no absolute panacea possible with competing interests, but I did find the set up in Belgium to be pretty good. Although I didn't experience any of the negative aspects described in this thread for Holland. I would also say that the surfacing of the cycle paths in Belgium was a site better than roads in the UK let alone cycle routes. So a lot less risk of an injury from potholes. Also a big thing is that cyclists have right of way when a cycle path crosses a road which makes the cycle paths much safer than in the UK. I am not a fan of many cycle paths in the UK and would often use the road instead.


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## Gravity Aided (28 May 2018)

DP said:


> Mind you, at 7:30 this morning I had the place to myself.
> View attachment 411264


Looks like most of America in the flyover country.


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## HobbesOnTour (28 May 2018)

DP said:


> It’s warm and sunny today, so the “wielerterroriesten” were out in force this morning. It’s quite unnerving to have a 40 strong peloton riding two abreast heading towards you on a narrow cycle path at in excess of 40kmh. And it wasn’t just one - there was a procession of these groups. Mix in a few families out for a gentle Sunday ride, numerous dog walkers and the out of control oldies on e-bikes and it wasn’t my idea of bike nirvana.




I deleted a paragraph in my original post mentioning this because I didn't want to be negative!
Yes, these are all present. Apart from the peletons, the rest don't bother me. I find the peletons to be bloody dangerous. I've been overtaken on the inside & outside simultaneously by idiot racers who "forgot" that I wasn't in a race.



Blue Hills said:


> I'm surprised there aren't rules against that. Sounds very dangerous.


My understanding is, that in Belgium the clubs are supposed to use the roads, where possible. Don't hold me to that, though.



User13710 said:


> It's that thing of 'there's a cycle path, therefore you must use it'. Sometimes the road would be smoother and nicer to ride on as well.


It's the law in NL & Belgium. There's a blue sign with a white bike - that means use the cycle path. In fairness, I think there's a gulf in standards between here & the UK in bike paths.



User13710 said:


> That is what I mean. Segregated facilities are not a panacea.


Well, no. But they're better than the alternative. Can you imagine all that cycle traffic on roads with automobile traffic too? To get to full utopia, what's needed is paths for clubs, for tourers, for commuters, for families, for dog walkers. Really not practical.



User13710 said:


> I think that in this country no self-respecting gang of roadies would be seen to be using a cycle path rather than the road. Unfortunately, when using the cycle path is compulsory you get gangs of them hurtling along two abreast in the absolute arrogant certainty that they need not slow down or single out because other people just have to defer to them. It is a bit sad, but that's how it is.


That's not the path, or indeed the law that says you have to use it - that's the a**holes on the bikes!

I'm always amused (not in a good way) to see these folks on their expensive bikes, decked out in all their gear with their garmins.... who don't have a bell.

I got one of these a couple of years ago for when riding on roads http://distanciador.com/epages/f822...h=/Shops/f8224c01-1d0a-470e-a9f7-028c00c68cd6

Truth be told, it's a standard piece of kit for riding in NL in the summertime. 
Not needed in winter 'cos they're all too soft to be out! 

Another thing about it being a utopia/panacea is that you can see what happens when cycling is made extremely safe - people not using lights, not looking left or right at junctions, using their phones as they cycle.
Mind you, the exact same things happen in cars and all things considered, I'd rather be on a bike path dealing with cyclists than cars or trucks!

And my last point about a**holes in Peletons..... I've cycled to Spain & back, over to Italy & back and in my experience the further south and east you get from NL, the friendlier & more respectful the sportive cyclists become. They give you space, they call out to you, chat to you.
It's not the rules, it's not the roads, it's not the bikes - it's the humanity in control of the bikes.


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## HobbesOnTour (28 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5259372, member: 259"] but this being Belgium, nobody pays a blind bit of notice.[/QUOTE]

And that's why I love Belgium! :-)


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## lane (28 May 2018)

So I am just using the excellent route planner to plan my trip to Holland and came across the following:

"LF-Routes are the long distance National Cycle Routes which cross the whole of the Netherlands from one side to another and from end to end. The LF-routes provide probably the best overall combination of path surface quality, signposting, scenery and separation from cars but they* consequently attract the largest amount of recreational cycle traffic (including pelatons of racers training at speed near urban areas).*

This profile uses the LF network, unless you specify route points that are not on the LF network. Outside the LF network, the route uses the numbered junction network and then the limited stops profile."


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## swansonj (28 May 2018)

By coincidence we have spent the last two days on LF1, the North Sea coast route in Holland. 

You certainly get every sort of cyclist from trad roadsters to carbon, with a really significant representation of e-bikes mostly ridden by middle aged or older riders. 

Particularly yesterday (Sunday) we certainly encountered sporty pelotons going fast. And they don't slow down. But actually, none of the passes (in either direction) felt actually dangerous -close and fast perhaps, inconsiderate perhaps, slightly stress inducing perhaps, but within my personal live and let live tolerance. 

Likewise as pedestrians in the evenings, you need your wits about you as cyclists appear from every direction in decidedly random ways. But why shouldn't they once the tyranny of cars is broken, and that too is well within my personal live and let live tolerance. 

I am aware that our experience may be different from other people's for all sorts of reasons.


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## galgoman (28 May 2018)

A leisurely day of T




ouring in the USA.

A stress free day of touring in the USA.


A


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## swansonj (29 May 2018)

I got hooted at today, because I've got so used to cyclist priority when cycle paths cross roads that I tried it on a rather main road where it clearly didn't apply. But even so, no accident....


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## Drago (29 May 2018)

galgoman said:


> Over here in the US I would love to encounter other riders to join up with. In most parts here, it can be a suicide mission to expect any space on the roads since few places offer any bike lanes or paths. Here you first hear the deep rumble of a pick-up truck coming behind you, laying on the horn starting at least 200 meters away and the complimentary middle fingers raised out the window as they rev their engine as they pass.



An easy solution.


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## snorri (29 May 2018)

User13710 said:


> One thing I have noticed, having done a fair bit of cycling in the Netherlands, is that cyclists never seem to collide with other cyclists or indeed fall off their bikes for any other reason.


Indeed, I've also considered the cycling skills demonstrated daily by the vast majority are far superior in the Netherlands, when compared with the UK.


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## mmmmartin (29 May 2018)

Apropos of nothing at all: I'm in Bruges for a few days. Yesterday I had the most terrifying experience - driving a car in a city dominated by cyclists. Its obvious that all other car drivers are scared of cyclists and stop the moment they see one, and do anything to avoid the slightest chance of hitting one. The roads are deliberately designed to make car driving a nightmare. There are more one way streets than you can shake a stick at, and the cobbled surface is surely there to increase the road noise inside the car. Parking is impossible: garages cost €25,000 and most people just pay €8.70 a day to put the car on the underground car parks.

Riding a bike, on the other hand, which I did today, is great. However the cobbled streets do put you off, and now I realise why some streets are popular with cyclists and others are deserted.

To sum up: it's great for cyclists.


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## tribanjules (29 May 2018)

Booked cycle tour in July for 3rd year.
Going clockwise this time.
It's a great place to visit.


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## slowmotion (29 May 2018)

I'm a big fan of The Netherlands and have been over there on my bike half a dozen times. Strangely enough, I found the cycle lanes in the big cities far more daunting than heavy London traffic (including Hyde Park Corner). They must have a hidden set of rules to avoid accidents, but even my Dutch friends have not managed to explain to me quite how it works.


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## mjr (29 May 2018)

mmmmartin said:


> [...] in Bruges [...] Riding a bike, on the other hand, which I did today, is great. However the cobbled streets do put you off, and now I realise why some streets are popular with cyclists and others are deserted.


Bruges's cobbles are bliss compared to Gent's! I'm sure the anthem of Gent should be parts of a broken mudguard rattling against each other...



User13710 said:


> One thing I have noticed, having done a fair bit of cycling in the Netherlands, is that cyclists never seem to collide with other cyclists or indeed fall off their bikes for any other reason. The other thing I've never seen is anyone by the side of the road fixing a puncture or any other mechanical. In the UK one does seem to see all these things on a fairly regular basis.
> 
> I do realise that this is, of course, mere anecdote, and not at all scientific, but it is something I have noticed.


Me too. A group of us riding around Belgium for a week suffered no punctures. I suspect it's because we were mostly on cycleways and the roadside cycleways we used mainly had little hedges between them and the carriageway which probably caught the never-ending stream of debris generated by motorists which litters UK ones as much as the carriageways if not more (because there are no heavy vehicles on cycleways to grind it down or flick it into the verge). However, two riders did have their handlebars come loose after prolonged cobble riding! But we had the tools to adjust and retighten...


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## swansonj (30 May 2018)

mmmmartin said:


> ......
> 
> To sum up: it's great for cyclists.


To sum up, it's great for humanity!

It's a vision of how life can be when public shared space is indeed public and shared pretty evenly and everyone accepts the more or less equal right of everyone else to be there, which becomes possible when you remove the hierarchy of precedence determined by power which we have been so conditioned to accept as normal.


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## woodbutcher (30 May 2018)

Drago said:


> An easy solution.
> 
> View attachment 411640


Whats not to like


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## Serge (30 May 2018)

swansonj said:


> To sum up, it's great for humanity!
> 
> It's a vision of how life can be when public shared space is indeed public and shared pretty evenly and everyone accepts the more or less equal right of everyone else to be there, which becomes possible when you remove the hierarchy of precedence determined by power which we have been so conditioned to accept as normal.


Very well put.


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## Shut Up Legs (30 May 2018)

I might have gone on a cycling trip to The Netherlands, but it's no secret I love riding up mountains, and I could never get anyone to give me decent directions to the Dutch Alps.


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## Blue Hills (30 May 2018)

I have distant memories of my Vespa trip to Amsterdam and the Netherlands. Set off from Amsterdam one day with vague plans to sleep out somewhere - saw the odd patch of trees in the distance which as I got closer proved to provide no cover whatsoever. Everything flat as a pancake, no cover at all.I think I returned to Amsterdam and the hotel I'd set out from.


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## Sixmile (31 May 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> A lot of people think that it's flat and boring. There is an argument to be made for that, but there is a wide variety of landscapes from the big urban areas (well made cycle paths make it easy), lots of canal & river routes, rural farmland, sand dunes & moor areas, coastline and some hills in Gelderland (around Arnhem) and Limburg. Good route planning will pay off.
> 
> Try Limburg for the hills - south west of NL at the border of Germany & Belgium. Fantastic riding. Not long climbs, but lots of short, sharp ascents & descents.
> I live in NL and have toured in lots of Europe. It's only in the last couple of years that I've started taking short tours here and have been very pleasantly surprised at what there is to see and do - even in winter. Travel by car in NL you see the motorways, travel on a bike you see everything!



I'm heading to Holland in 2 weeks with a group of friends who've never toured on their bikes before. We fly into Schiphol on Friday morning, ride to Rotterdam to stay, stay in Utrecht on Saturday, Huizen on Sunday and back through Amsterdam on Monday for a flight in the late evening. I've a rough idea of a route now but are there any 'must see/do' places along the way? We're heading to Haarlem straight after we build up our bikes at the airport and I've been told Delft is nice to go through but other than that nothing else is set in stone.



DP said:


> Mind you, at 7:30 this morning I had the place to myself.
> View attachment 411264



Where is this, these are the kind of stretches I'd want to ride!


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## mjr (31 May 2018)

Sixmile said:


> I'm heading to Holland in 2 weeks with a group of friends who've never toured on their bikes before. We fly into Schiphol on Friday morning, ride to Rotterdam to stay, stay in Utrecht on Saturday, Huizen on Sunday and back through Amsterdam on Monday for a flight in the late evening. I've a rough idea of a route now but are there any 'must see/do' places along the way?


Not sure about must see/do, but either Kinderdijk or the less theme-park-y windmills south of Groote Ammers (between junctions 67 and 68) or even both wouldn't be too far off a Rotterdam-Utrecht route. Eethaus De Waag in Schoonhoven did nice ice creams.


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## tribanjules (31 May 2018)

Utrecht is lovely. Really chilled after crazy Amsterdam.
Friends stopped off at the windmill theme park and apparently it's worth visiting


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## User169 (31 May 2018)

Sixmile said:


> I'm heading to Holland in 2 weeks with a group of friends who've never toured on their bikes before. We fly into Schiphol on Friday morning, ride to Rotterdam to stay, stay in Utrecht on Saturday, Huizen on Sunday and back through Amsterdam on Monday for a flight in the late evening. I've a rough idea of a route now but are there any 'must see/do' places along the way? We're heading to Haarlem straight after we build up our bikes at the airport and I've been told Delft is nice to go through but other than that nothing else is set in stone.
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this, these are the kind of stretches I'd want to ride!



The picture is from somewhere between Spijkenisse and Hellevoetsluis. Whilst it looks rural, it’s only just a little south of Rotterdam and I rode past this a few minutes before I got there...






Edit. Your route looks pretty nice - hope you have a good time!


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## tribanjules (31 May 2018)

I'm going on this trip for 3rd year.
Great people great routes

https://www.bike-events.co.uk/Ride.aspx?id=618&n=y


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## snorri (31 May 2018)

DP said:


> The picture is from somewhere between Spijkenisse and Hellevoetsluis. Whilst it looks rural, it’s only just a little south of Rotterdam and I rode past this a few minutes before I got there...


When I cycle into that area, Botlek, Maasvlakte, Europoort, I have a job dragging myself away!
The contrasts are interesting, the small town of Brielle so close to heavy industry yet 'retains its old world charm' and has a good campsite.


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## HobbesOnTour (1 Jun 2018)

Sixmile said:


> Where is this, these are the kind of stretches I'd want to ride!



There's surprisingly lots of stretches like that all over the country. Just remember that if the weather is good there'll be lots of people in your view 

From Haarlem you could follow the coast down, turn off for Delft, from there, there's a canal you can follow all the way to Rotterdam.

All around Utrecht is nice to cycle, and I'd suggest staying east of Hilversum on the way to Huizen.

Enjoy!


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## User169 (3 Jun 2018)

My favorite crossing. There’s a sensor, so that when it rains, more priority is give to bikes.


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## Sixmile (4 Jun 2018)

For someone who has never been to Holland before, how safe is riding around the cities at night time? I know everything is relative, but when we go away next weekend, I plan to bring a decent set of lights with me and go for a spin around each place (Rotterdam, Utrecht, Huizen) in the late evening to do a bit of extra exploring/sightseeing. I'm not expecting South Africa style hold ups, but has anyone experienced any issues later in the day or is it not a factor at all?


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## User169 (4 Jun 2018)

Sixmile said:


> For someone who has never been to Holland before, how safe is riding around the cities at night time? I know everything is relative, but when we go away next weekend, I plan to bring a decent set of lights with me and go for a spin around each place (Rotterdam, Utrecht, Huizen) in the late evening to do a bit of extra exploring/sightseeing. I'm not expecting South Africa style hold ups, but has anyone experienced any issues later in the day or is it not a factor at all?



Ridden around Rotterdam and Utrecht plenty late at night. You are very unlikely to have any problems at all.


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## User169 (4 Jun 2018)

Experienced a new hazard this morning - a bicycle policeman riding in the opposite direction swerving all over the road. He was riding no hands and texting on his mobile.


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## mjr (4 Jun 2018)

DP said:


> Experienced a new hazard this morning - a bicycle policeman riding in the opposite direction swerving all over the road. He was riding no hands and texting on his mobile.


I've seen cycling police over here do various questionable things but that's another level  Did anyone dare say anything?


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Jun 2018)

Another reason... I was away this weekend and paid the princely sum of Euro 4 for a pitch at a mini-camping at a farm, including hot water, toilet paper(!), Wifi and eggs in the morning from the free-range chickens wandering around my tent!


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## ceepeebee (7 Jun 2018)

Hi all, Long time no see....

Next week I’m over there for my 9th consecutive annual bumble round the breweries. De Molen may well be visited, along with Het Uiltje and Kaapse. Other than that i’m Going to try relaxing, I’ve heard it’s quite good.

Cycling over there though is just so........ civilised...... Not to mention the fact that the lack of hills suits my build...

Different route this time though - Hull to Europoort as we’ve moved back up North, which means schlepping through some of DPs refineries (which have a kind of beauty about them). There are some massively bucolic bits to cycle through in the Randstad though, one of my favourite stretches is round Duivenoorde castle, loads of fields, cows, streams... then in the distance the towers of Rotterdam one way and Den Haag the other appearing through breaks in the trees.


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## Sixmile (8 Jun 2018)

This time next week I'll be on my flight to Holland. It's a country I've never visited before so really looking forward to it. I've started pulling together more detailed journey particulars as one guy in our group makes you justify every road, turn and junction. On Tuesday night past we had our dry run of putting our bikes into the bags which then turned into a discussion on who's bringing helmets and who's not.


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## swansonj (8 Jun 2018)

Sixmile said:


> This time next week I'll be on my flight to Holland. It's a country I've never visited before so really looking forward to it. I've started pulling together more detailed journey particulars as one guy in our group makes you justify every road, turn and junction. On Tuesday night past we had our dry run of putting our bikes into the bags which then turned into a discussion on who's bringing helmets and who's not.


We took the ferry over a couple of weeks ago. I was surprised by three things in succession:

how many bicycles there were - about thirty i'd guess
how many were not just modern "road bikes" (sic) - there were a whole range of older or less mainstream kit: tandems, a Hewitt, a couple of Dawes and Raleighs of a generation to have downtube shifters, a couple of titaniums of a touring ilk, several trad saddlebags etc
given the above, and the destination, how few non-helmet wearers there were. I think in fact we were the only ones.


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## mjr (8 Jun 2018)

swansonj said:


> how many bicycles there were - about thirty i'd guess


You got a quiet crossing!


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## The Crofted Crest (8 Jun 2018)

Sixmile said:


> a discussion on who's bringing helmets and who's not.



Leave the helmets at home along with the hi viz and any inclination to ride in single file or use hand signals.

ETA:
@swansonj , down tube shifters are seriously hip in Holland.


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## Sixmile (8 Jun 2018)

swansonj said:


> We took the ferry over a couple of weeks ago. I was surprised by three things in succession:
> 
> how many bicycles there were - about thirty i'd guess
> how many were not just modern "road bikes" (sic) - there were a whole range of older or less mainstream kit: tandems, a Hewitt, a couple of Dawes and Raleighs of a generation to have downtube shifters, a couple of titaniums of a touring ilk, several trad saddlebags etc
> given the above, and the destination, how few non-helmet wearers there were. I think in fact we were the only ones



One of our group is bringing his dad's Dawes. We're not bringing our road bikes after reading others experiences. We're going for hybrids in more casual clothing. 



The Crofted Crest said:


> Leave the helmets at home along with the hi viz and any inclination to ride in single file or use hand signals.



I'm not bringing mine but 2 guys are (4 going).


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## toffee (8 Jun 2018)

swansonj said:


> how many bicycles there were - about thirty i'd guess



Came back on the ferry on Wednesday last week and there was only Mrs T and I on bikes. No Hemlet's and hi vis for us but I would say over the couple of years we have been going to The Netherlands the number of people wearing hemlets has gone up.


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## toffee (8 Jun 2018)

I think there are more Dutch people (well they may not be Dutch I suppose) riding non traditional Dutch bikes. These are the ones wearing helmets.

Nearly all cyclists on our boat out were wearing helmets. They were all British


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## Donger (8 Jun 2018)

I've only had one holiday in the Netherlands where I've taken my bike. I was based near Giethoorn in the Wierribben-Wieden (?) Nature Park, so there were some great quiet little villages, lanes and traffic free paths with bike ferries. Thatched wooden houses and lots of storks. That sort of stuff. The only holiday when I never wore a helmet. Loved it. But the only two occasions when I took the wide, straight cycle paths along the sides of main roads between towns, I soon got bored and turned around. I don't rule out taking the bike back to Holland ... perhaps the dykes around the Enkhuizen/Hoorn area or the bulbfields in Spring. I prefer the Belgian Ardennes, though, for much more interesting and varied cycling.


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## Sixmile (14 Jun 2018)

..and we're off to Holland in the morning!

I've tried to prepare the other fella's as best as possible (I've booked all the flights, hotels, planned routes, sent checklists, planned an overnight trip two weeks ago, had a dry run of packing our bikes away last week, send a gear list & itinerary well in advance etc) but there's one panicking he can't dismantle his bike, one's concerned we're doing too many miles and another still hasn't worked out how he's getting to the airport! Should be fun!


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## Sixmile (22 Jun 2018)

Just thought I'd provide a little follow up to our trip. Simply amazing, enjoyed every minute of it. What a beautiful country and shows how good cycling can be with a little thought toward planning and infrastructure. We covered 250 miles on our hybrids (I took advice to bring these instead of road bikes, good shout!) from Friday afternoon to Monday afternoon. We took a little longer to get out of the airport than first planned, no small part to rebuilding issues. My screw that attaches my rear mech to hanger was missing so I had to cable tie my hanger to the frame until we hit Haarlem and I was able to get a new screw in a shop there. The cable ties were surprisingly sturdy.

The lockers are no longer available at Schipnol, only baggage storage available at 12euro per 24hr. We managed to squeeze 3 of our bike bags into the fourth, so only paid 48e for storing 4 bike bags over the 4 days. The area to build the bikes was decent, although there was no track pump unlike some other airports I've been to. My Garmin refused to work until day 3. I had tried to load the full 250mile route as one navigational file and the Garmin just couldn't cope. Next time I'll split the files into individual days.

The cycle roads/paths were exceptional, it really shows up how bad the facilities are here in Northern Ireland. We have a few ok-ish greenways which we think are grand, but they are few and far between. Holland really has put thought into their network and it was so enjoyable to ride around. Each of the four days was like an individual experience on its own. Day 1 from Haarlem to Rotterdam was through the sand dunes, a truly beautiful ride in glorious terrain. Day 2 from Rotterdam to Utrecht via Kinderdjck was through grasslands, windmills, lakes and canals. We even got stopped by a lovely dutch lady on the way and fed free dutch pancakes at a Church party. Day 3 from Utrecht to Ede to Huizen was mostly through forest and one particular trek through the woods was breathtaking. Day 4 from Huizen to Amsterdam was probably the least scenic but it was good to visit Amsterdam itself and see it first hand. It rained that day so we weren't in the mood for much sightseeing! All in all, a fantastic experience and as I said, we loved every minute and already I'm looking into bringing the family over for a few weeks next year. I just need to work out how best to do it.


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## mmmmartin (22 Jun 2018)

ceepeebee said:


> moved back up North


Jolly good, @ceepeebee 
Fancy meeting up with a few friends
You know you want to.....


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## ceepeebee (26 Jun 2018)

mmmmartin said:


> Jolly good, @ceepeebee
> Fancy meeting up with a few friends
> You know you want to.....


Almost definitely (unless it ends up being my leaving do for current role - I mean, I should be leaving this week, but, we’ll, that won’t happen...)


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## ceepeebee (26 Jun 2018)

And some of my Dutch photos from last week


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## tribanjules (26 Jun 2018)

Sixmile said:


> One of our group is bringing his dad's Dawes. We're not bringing our road bikes after reading others experiences. We're going for hybrids in more casual clothing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not bringing mine but 2 guys are (4 going).


Also doing the Holland trip again in July.
Also going to take hybrid instead.
I use cycle gear as normal tees fees are waaay too sweaty


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## User169 (24 Jul 2018)

I tried out pole camping last weekend: the dutch forestry commission have a few sites where you can camp for free - no facilities, so you have to take in and take out everything with you. The sites are each indicated with a pole hence the name.

The website is here with the various locations, although it only seems to be in Dutch...

https://www.logerenbijdeboswachter.nl/paalkamperen

I went to the one at Austerlitz which is about 10km from Utrecht. Only down side, and it's a biggy, is that there was quite a bit of bog roll around left by previous campers. So gross.

The idea is that they're accessible for walkers and riders, so may be worth thinking about if you're on a tight budget.


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## HobbesOnTour (24 Jul 2018)

DP said:


> I tried out pole camping last weekend: the dutch forestry commission have a few sites where you can camp for free - no facilities, so you have to take in and take out everything with you. The sites are each indicated with a pole hence the name.
> 
> The website is here with the various locations, although it only seems to be in Dutch...
> 
> ...



I've used a few over the last few years. Usually no potable water available, but sometimes it is. There can be fire pits and "natural" toilets in some, but not many.
It appears that they have been growing rapidly in popularity and some have been closed because of too many issue with groups, noise and rubbish.
This is a website put together by a guy about these places. https://sites.google.com/site/paalkampeerders/English
On the Dutch homepage he issues an urgent warning for people to behave!

This is a Belgian version: http://bivakzone.be/


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## tribanjules (26 Jul 2018)

Having a fantastic week in Netherlands.
Scorchio but still getting the I'm in . Fab country. Now chilled in vondelpark


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