# Cycling seems to have become very "upper crust"



## iateyoubutler (29 Jul 2017)

That`s how it appears to me

Doesn`t feel like I fit the criteria any more, almost as though I have to talk posh!

I`ve never been one for "keeping up with the Jones`s" or worrying about other people, but lately in various encounters I`ve noticed that the standard criteria is to be a private consultant, or doctor, or similar, live in a "rustic" residence with at least a double garage (or gararge, let`s get it right!!), a swimming pool, a minimum of 4 brand new cars, plenty of log burners, a coffee machine that cost more than my house did, a lifelong subscription to radio 4...etc etc etc, the list goes on

I, and my semi-detached WITH SINGLE gararge, tools based job, a liking for Lidl`s groceries, a 15 year old car, and a lacking of the cyclists accent (there is one, I know), seem to be feeling a little bit out of place

Maybe I should take up jigsaw puzzles, or get a flat cap and keep pigeons!

Seriously, the whole thing does seem to be getting rather "select", nowadays


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## S-Express (29 Jul 2017)

iateyoubutler said:


> a lifelong subscription to radio 4



Radio 4 is free to air...


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## ocianbricles (29 Jul 2017)

cycling has always suffered a little touch of "elitism" not, perhaps, so much now, but in the days when we had various groups: NCU, BLRC, RTTC and so on there was plenty of elitism. Some clubs wouldn't even let women join, and you had to be sixteen years of age to join a club. That all changed when sponsorship started to infiltrate the sport. In fact when did you last hear the word Amateur?


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## lutonloony (29 Jul 2017)

I've got no car,I commute on my only bike, I do club runs on same bike, and am thinking of doing club TT on selfsame bike. I take the P on some posts,learn from other posts, and get occasionally mocked ( in good humour). Should I leave then?


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## Oxo (29 Jul 2017)

odav said:


> I'm rough as ar*~holes and I still ride me bike.


Perhaps a new saddle would help.


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## graham bowers (29 Jul 2017)

You're obviously having the wrong "encounters" - ride in rougher areas ;-))


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## Lonestar (29 Jul 2017)

You are posh round ere if you've got a beemer.


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## Ian H (29 Jul 2017)

I think you need to consort more with 'proper', club cyclists.


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## Will Spin (29 Jul 2017)

S-Express said:


> Radio 4 is free to air...


I'm a radio 3 man myself


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## Jackmaster (29 Jul 2017)

All depends where you live I guess. If you can afford to live near where all these "upper crust" people do maybe you haven't done so badly yourself?

A semi detached with a garage in Chelsea ain't cheap!

I don't have the time or inclination to have a "stop and chat" with other cyclists when I'm riding my bike in my own little world.

I will agree with you in the fact that I just want to ride my bike and help out other cyclists if I can but have noticed a cliqueishness, snobbery and inverted snobbery and people who think that just cos you are riding a bike you have to nod to them or they get offended.

I don't flash my lights at every motorist I encounter or say hello to every runner I see....

How on earth you get to the point of a conversation where you even ask or know what these people do is beyond me? Maybe you are too friendly?

I don't even know what some of my mates do.....

If ever I have the misfortune to speak to some random pleb I usually say, nice bike, good ride?


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## Apollonius (29 Jul 2017)

Lidl is posh. High quality at low prices. Plenty of otherwise difficult to obtain German and French delicacies. Esoteric wines at low prices.

And where else can you get fresh baked French bread?


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## srw (29 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> And where else can you get fresh baked French bread?


From your local Boulanger in France.


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## Apollonius (29 Jul 2017)

Why didn't I think of that?


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## Drago (29 Jul 2017)

2 houses.

2 garages.

2 cars, one new.

Inglenook fireplace.

Wood burners.

Nespresso machine.

Private healthcare.

A Radio 4 junkie.



Oh my God! I've become everything I ever hated!




Lonestar said:


> You are posh round ere if you've got a beemer.



They're considered rather gauche around here. Indeed, monocles drop into glasses of single malt every time my Ford Fusion charabanc rattles up the road.


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## FishFright (29 Jul 2017)

S-Express said:


> Radio 4 is free to air...



Cor nowt gets passed you does it mate


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## Sheffield_Tiger (29 Jul 2017)

Upper crust my arse. Just got misen a Raleigh Lizard for farve and twenty quid. Which I want to keep but OK, there is that upper crust element* who will probably give me £120 for it stripped, serviced and presented as "retro". (Not a rip-off in any way - £25 for the bike, a £90 value service and new cables, bearings and other sundries)

_*You know them, they order "street food" from restaurants._


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## booze and cake (29 Jul 2017)

They've all come over from golf innit.


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## S-Express (29 Jul 2017)

FishFright said:


> Cor nowt gets passed you does it mate



Thanks mate!


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## Bollo (29 Jul 2017)

If this turns into another how-much-for-a-bike thread I swear I'm going to go absolutely &@£?ing mental.



Drago said:


> Oh my God! I've become everything I ever hated!


You always were everything we ever hated, @Drago my old chum.


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## classic33 (29 Jul 2017)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Upper crust my arse. Just got *misen* a Raleigh Lizard for farve and twenty quid. Which I want to keep but OK, there is that upper crust element* who will probably give me £120 for it stripped, serviced and presented as "retro". (Not a rip-off in any way - £25 for the bike, a £90 value service and new cables, bearings and other sundries)
> 
> _*You know them, they order "street food" from restaurants._


Thi's droppin thi "S"s


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2017)

Cycling is for everyone. All you need is a £5k bike and grounds to ride it on.


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## Flick of the Elbow (29 Jul 2017)

Looking back, there's does appear to be some truth in the OP. When I first joined a cycling club in Birmingham in the early 80's most of the club folk worked in trades and factories, most cycled to work, most kept bikes and clothing going until it fell to pieces. Nowadays most club cyclists seem to do white collar jobs in offices, many are very highly paid, bikes and clothing are usually immaculate, replaced regularly rather than repaired. And then there's the whole obsession with coffee too. Back in the 80's we'd stop at a cafe for tea, nowadays it's all fancy coffees and odd little biscuits.


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## Apollonius (29 Jul 2017)

The world has moved on. Manual jobs are virtually extinct, and most employed people are reasonably affluent. Polarisation has created an underclass who are poor and an prosperous remainder. I know that sickness and family breakup leads to poverty, but if you are lucky enough to avoid these than you have some money to spend. There is also the phenomenon of the rich pensioner of the baby boomer generation who benefited from free higher education, excellent state healthcare and an amazing rise in property values. If you were lucky enough to be on the right side of all that, then you are very fortunate. And can ride a nice bike!


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## Venod (29 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> There is also the phenomenon of the rich pensioner of the baby boomer generation who benefited from free higher education, excellent state healthcare and an amazing rise in property values. If you were lucky enough to be on the right side of all that, then you are very fortunate. And can ride a nice bike!



This I have to agree with, as it applies to me, but I have been cycling a long time and have owned and ridden cheaper bikes and made my clothes last years (which I still do) but our club has members from all walks of life, there is no snobishness at all, but what is evident is that everybody rides decent bikes.


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## Lee_M (29 Jul 2017)

iateyoubutler said:


> That`s how it appears to me
> 
> Doesn`t feel like I fit the criteria any more, almost as though I have to talk posh!
> 
> ...



Interesting perspective.
I would probably be considered successful and reasonably well off
Not upper crust though, my dad was a milkman and I come from a mining family.
Maybe you need to spend more time riding and less time categorising people :-)


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## Sheffield_Tiger (29 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> ....Back in the 80's we'd stop at a cafe for tea,



Back in the 80s that was posh. I had butties and a bottle of over-diluted C-Vit in a small toolbox with the puncture outfit and dumbell spanner, bungeed to my rear rack


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## Brandane (29 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> most employed people are reasonably affluent.





Your location is South Staffordshire, maybe that explains your perspective on that. Things are very different in other parts of the UK... Most of central Scotland, for starters.
As far as upper crust cycling is concerned - it is very much a minority sport in these parts. Most are put off by the prevailing wet and windy climate. It only appeals to a very limited amount of people but they come from all backgrounds. Quite a lot of golf club rejects have appeared in recent years, as with most parts of the country. They'll only stick around until the next fad appears, hopefully.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> Interesting perspective.
> I would probably be considered successful and reasonably well off
> Not upper crust though, my dad was a milkman and I come from a mining family.
> Maybe you need to spend more time riding and less time categorising people :-)


Says the man categorising himself as "successful" and "reasonably well off"


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## Buck (29 Jul 2017)

I can't agree. I'd say cycling is a "sport" that is classless. That doesn't mean you get people in the sport from different ends of the spectrum. Especially as there is no annual membership !

Remember the Olympics, Tour de France, Grand Depart and Tour de Yorkshire made cycling interesting and accessible to people of all walks of life. That can't be a bad thing. 

Yes you stereotypically get the overweight 40 something who buys all the gear such as Rapha just because of the label then splashes out £10k on a bike but he still rides the same roads as the person who's had their bike for 10+ years, maintains it well, enjoys their rides for what they are and will still be doing it in 10 years whereas Rapha man will have sold his bike on at considerable loss and couldn't fit into his Lycra even with its elastic properties!

I can admire a nice bike like the next person but I don't judge a cyclist because he's on a new or old bike, wearing the latest gear, has a good job or has a small or large house. If he or she are good company then that trumps all others in my book. 

The more people taking up cycling for the right reasons is all good and if Rapha man is selling his bike at a good price, you never know you might pick up a bargain


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2017)

Brandane said:


> Quite a lot of golf club rejects have appeared in recent years, as with most parts of the country. They'll only stick around until the next fad appears, hopefully.


Thankfully I have not encountered many, if any (I can't think of any) during club rides.


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## marzjennings (29 Jul 2017)

Cycling as an activity whether for transportation or fun I think has always and will remain something for everyone. 

But as a sport and to be competitive, then definitely a rich person's sport.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2017)

marzjennings said:


> But as a sport and to be competitive, then definitely a rich person's sport.



I'm not sure the people in the OP (middle aged professionals) are competitive other than in their own heads.

Cycling is a sport open to most people (more needs to be done to promote it as such). I don't think you'll find the record books full of affluent family names and historically it was a sport of the poor. There are few professional cyclists who come from "rich" backgrounds.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE 4899738, member: 9609"]I would guess many in thin end of the trough type employment will just not have the time or energy for cycling as a hobby - I wouldn't have been able to fit cycling in when I was working.

I don't think I have spoke to another cyclist this year (or last) so don't really know if they're snooty or not[/QUOTE]
The history of Grand Tour and Classics cycling is full of poor lads cycling to and from work, racing in the evening and weekends, trying to escape the utter poverty of rural (mostly mainland) Europe. Likewise those from other continents.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE 4899742, member: 9609"]historically may be, but can the same be said today,[/QUOTE]
I think you'll find it can. 

Care to name your top ten of current pros from wealthy families?


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## bpsmith (30 Jul 2017)

Buck said:


> I can't agree. I'd say cycling is a "sport" that is classless. That doesn't mean you get people in the sport from different ends of the spectrum. Especially as there is no annual membership !
> 
> Remember the Olympics, Tour de France, Grand Depart and Tour de Yorkshire made cycling interesting and accessible to people of all walks of life. That can't be a bad thing.
> 
> ...


Paragraph 3 and 4 totally contradict each other. You don't judge a rider for their new bike...unless it's worth £10k and the guys wearing Rapha. Interesting.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

There is much more affluence in cycling today. More people with disposable income getting into retirement age are taking up cycling as a way to stay fit. (rather than golf) They can afford very good equipment and don't mind paying for it. There are many more rides like Gran Fondos specifically catering to these people as well. Lots of folks round here have a road bike, gravel bike, and a niner. I'm personally guilty of owning three bikes, but then I've been a cyclist for 55 years. The more people in cycling the better IMO.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

marzjennings said:


> Cycling as an activity whether for transportation or fun I think has always and will remain something for everyone.
> 
> But as a sport and to be competitive, then definitely a rich person's sport.



You don't need to be rich to be competitive


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm not sure the people in the OP (middle aged professionals) are competitive other than in their own heads.
> 
> Cycling is a sport open to most people (more needs to be done to promote it as such). I don't think you'll find the record books full of affluent family names and historically it was a sport of the poor. There are few professional cyclists who come from "rich" backgrounds.



There are some pretty hardcore 'middle age professionals' riding around here


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

User46386 said:


> I think that anyone with an old cronk of a bike would stay well away from a cycling club because its known what they are like.



It's true that none of us ('they') want to ride with a guy who shows up to a group ride on a piece of crap that has sh!!ty brakes and mis-shifts on every uphill.


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## slowmotion (30 Jul 2017)

My bike cost £650 when new. I had to think about buying it. It works pretty well, but I try not to ride in the company of w*nkers. I try to avoid them in all aspects of life actually.


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## hoopdriver (30 Jul 2017)

I have become _so _upper crust lately when I am out on my Pegoretti that I do not even speak to _myself_


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## Jimidh (30 Jul 2017)

I can't make my club ride this morning as its by daughters birthday but on a normal Sunday we will have a policeman, a chef, a bus driver, a pharmacist, a mechanic, shop worker, financier, a doctor, an IT specialist, a salesman, a gardener and few others. 

The one thing we have in common is that we love riding bikes - no snobbery just guys enjoying being out with each other with a shared passion.


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## Markymark (30 Jul 2017)

And what is it with snobby cyclists on posh bikes who don't nod or say hello when you see them out riding??


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## Dan B (30 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I have become upper crust lately when I am out on my bicycle that I do not even speak to _myself_


Really? I speak to myself all the time. Rarely results in a sensible conversation, though


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## Levo-Lon (30 Jul 2017)

User said:


> Ah.... another jealousy thread - dontcha just love 'em, eh...




Looking down your nose can cause neck strain


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## Shut Up Legs (30 Jul 2017)

I find I've become more uppity and crusty with age. Does that count?


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## Venod (30 Jul 2017)

User46386 said:


> Whats a decentish bike? I think whats decent to one person is rubbish to another.
> I think that anyone with an old cronk of a bike would stay well away from a cycling club because its known what they are like.



I am comparing what people ride now to when I was younger, back then some of the bikes would be older but well maintained and ride able, nowadays there are less older bikes on club runs, I have been cycling 50 plus years and in that time I been a member of 2 clubs I don't think either of them would fit your vision of a cycling club, the first one positively encouraged the young lad with little cash, club members would would help them out with tyres spares etc, some of these lads were the toughest best riders the club produced, my present club encourages all ages and abilities there is little need to help people out nowadays, there are still people withou but not as many as in the past.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Jul 2017)

Jimidh said:


> ...on a normal Sunday we will have a policeman, a chef, a bus driver, a pharmacist, a mechanic, shop worker, financier, a doctor, an IT specialist, a salesman, a gardener and few others.
> 
> The one thing we have in common is that we love riding bikes - no snobbery...



That's more my experience too, (although its not a club, more of a social group that has gained members by chance encounters). We have a mixture of vocations (and I guess incomes). There's an accountant, an IT engineer, an airline manager, a shop assistant, a fireman, a housewife, a nurse, and an old retiree. The most exotic bike is a Bianchi 928, but there are Carreras, older Boardmans, battered old hybrids, all sorts. 

I've never seen a hint of anything approaching snobbery, we're just there to ride.


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## Oxo (30 Jul 2017)

CanucksTraveller said:


> That's more my experience too, (although its not a club, more of a social group that has gained members by chance encounters).
> 
> I've never seen a hint of anything approaching snobbery, we're just there to ride.


That is very much like the group I ride with a couple of times a week.
The fact that we are all retired, ride carbon bikes which are lovingly maintained and avoid riding at times when we might encounter other people on aluminium bikes who might wish to wave or speak to us is purely coincidental.
As for being an all inclusive group, one of our regulars actually drinks latte at the coffee stop.


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## Buck (30 Jul 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Paragraph 3 and 4 totally contradict each other. You don't judge a rider for their new bike...unless it's worth £10k and the guys wearing Rapha. Interesting.



Not really. Para 3 is an observation of what lots of people do with hobbies. Buy all the gear because it's on trend or their neighbours/friends are doing it.


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## Venod (30 Jul 2017)

I see wearing Rapha is considered elitist, I have 3 Rapha jerseys all bought considerable cheaper than full price, it is some of the best kit I have ever owned, so if you can afford it get it, or even better get it at a bargain price.


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## Apollonius (30 Jul 2017)

I don't think I have ever met a cyclist who has played golf. What is this obsession with golf? Is it a class thing? I know cyclists who also ride and own horses, and cyclists who also sail (like me) but never a cyclist/golfer? Cyclists who ski, in plenty. Is golf seen as a higher class thing? Is there something wrong with golf as an activity? I have never tried it, so cannot say, but it does seem to be a bit of a meme on here.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> What is this obsession with golf? Is it a class thing?


How old are you Apollonius ? If you can't remember them, take a look at any British sIt com from the 70's. Yes it is a class thing !


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## Oxo (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> I don't think I have ever met a cyclist who has played golf. What is this obsession with golf? Is it a class thing? I know cyclists who also ride and own horses, and cyclists who also sail (like me) but never a cyclist/golfer? Cyclists who ski, in plenty. Is golf seen as a higher class thing? Is there something wrong with golf as an activity? I have never tried it, so cannot say, but it does seem to be a bit of a meme on here.


I used to play golf, but I couldn't put up with the outlandish colours of golf clothing, so I turned to cycling.


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## Apollonius (30 Jul 2017)

I am very old, but have never really done TV. 

So we have an inverse snobbery thing going on. I suppose I am qualified to join in as my family (like most) is sprung from the working class. Wife's dad was a miner; my old man worked in a factory after being in the army, but I got educated and made some money. My bad, as the kids say!


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## bpsmith (30 Jul 2017)

Buck said:


> Not really. Para 3 is an observation of what lots of people do with hobbies. Buy all the gear because it's on trend or their neighbours/friends are doing it.


Don't you think that they may be buying the gear because they want it themselves, rather than copying what others want?

Perhaps they've actually got into it, enjoy the sport and value purchasing the products they buy, for their own reasons.

Considerable amount of reverse snobbery going on in paragraph 3, no question.


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## Apollonius (30 Jul 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Don't you think that they may be buying the gear because they want it themselves, rather than copying what others want?
> 
> Perhaps they've actually got into it, enjoy the sport and value purchasing the products they buy, for their own reasons.
> 
> Considerable amount of reverse snobbery going on in paragraph 3, no question.



Yes. The idea that successful people are clueless and just copy each other and rush to waste their money seems very odd to me. I believe that the opposite applies.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Jul 2017)

Jimidh said:


> I can't make my club ride this morning as its by daughters birthday but on a normal Sunday we will have a policeman, a chef, a bus driver, a pharmacist, a mechanic, shop worker, financier, a doctor, an IT specialist, a salesman, a gardener and few others.
> 
> The one thing we have in common is that we love riding bikes - no snobbery just guys enjoying being out with each other with a shared passion.


Yes but do you go to cafes or to coffee shops ?


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> I don't think I have ever met a cyclist who has played golf. What is this obsession with golf? Is it a class thing? I know cyclists who also ride and own horses, and cyclists who also sail (like me) but never a cyclist/golfer? Cyclists who ski, in plenty. Is golf seen as a higher class thing? Is there something wrong with golf as an activity? I have never tried it, so cannot say, but it does seem to be a bit of a meme on here.


I've played golf to some degree all my life, from the days of sneaking on at the 3rd hole to paying to have all the gear. It may be a geographical thing, but in Scotland there is a good smattering of council courses making it affordable for all, so it's not elitist at all as far as I can see. My happiest times on the golf course were with my old man and all his retired pals, who had got to an age where they had what they had and couldn't care less if it was more or less than you had. I could throw the ball further than they could hit it, but they never got tired of whooping my ass as they knew every bump and run of their course. Great times.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Jul 2017)

In truth, it's not just cycling that has shifted demographic. It's my impression that walking and climbing have too. In the 30's the working classes embraced the great outdoors and made for the hills at the weekends, often using the then expanding youth hostel network. And that generation and the one that followed have retained their love of the great outdoors as they have got older and wealthier. But the later generations of the working class don't seem to have grasped it. A great pity.


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## Jimidh (30 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Yes but do you go to cafes or to coffee shops ?


Both so long as they have good coffee and cake.

Humble Hub is one of our favourites - should try it some time. It's a good ride out there from Edinburgh. 

Also some good places in Innerleithen.


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## rivers (30 Jul 2017)

iateyoubutler said:


> That`s how it appears to me
> 
> Doesn`t feel like I fit the criteria any more, almost as though I have to talk posh!
> 
> ...



You're upper crust compared to me! I rent a two bed maisonette. I also love a bit of Lidl, my car is an 8 year old Kia Picanto, work full time at a university and part time at the Bristol Hippodrome (on a zero hours contract no less!), and my accent is purely f*cked my from my gap decade (apparently a fun mix of american and english, that occasionally sounds Scottish or Irish, I don't know, but certainly not a posh cyclist accent).

I hate jigsaw puzzles!!!

To be honest, my cycling club sees a mix of everything. Really nice bikes that cost several thousand pounds, custom builds, vintage steel, entry level aluminium and carbon, more mid-range things, and people from all walks of life riding them. The only reason I have my best bike is because of a settlement payout I received, and even then, it's only a mid-range carbon. Otherwise, I would still solely be riding my entry level specialized.


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## bpsmith (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> Yes. The idea that successful people are clueless and just copy each other and rush to waste their money seems very odd to me. I believe that the opposite applies.


Absolutely agree with you.

I would even suggest that being "successful" doesn't just apply to how much money you earn. How successful you are, depends on the goal that you are trying to achieve.

We all have our goals in life, so let's not judge people for enjoying the spoils of achieving whatever goal it is that they were aiming for.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Markymark said:


> And what is it with snobby cyclists on posh bikes who don't nod or say hello when you see them out riding??



Maybe it's you...


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## Fonze (30 Jul 2017)

I nod, sometimes too bushed to do so though .. 
I also like to chat at any stops gain as much advice and info as I can ..
But I ride for the love of it, like a bug or drug thing, so nothing bothers me other than ass wipe drivers ..


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> There is much more affluence in cycling today. More people with disposable income getting into retirement age are taking up cycling as a way to stay fit. (rather than golf)


I'd suggest that most of the new breed are into it because it is fashionable and will be gone when it no longer is. The demographic making up the "New golfer" side of cycling is exactly the same as that which fueled the motorcycle boom from the mid nineties and lasted for a decade before dying on it's arse. Thirty to sixty age group, affluent with high disposable incomes, a liking for the best performance bikes and matching kit, mostly without very much technical knowledge outside of what they read in the magazines. 

You will know that a boom in cycling is genuine when you see far more people buying the sort of practical bikes club cyclists back in the day rode when they were not racing or training, ie mudguards, non race geometry and something other than a glorified fag packet strapped under the saddle for carrying capacity. To be a lifelong cyclist you need to enjoy riding a bike for the sheer pleasure of it, not just till the novelty of setting strava times wears off and you have run out of new kit to buy, or those you want to impress no longer do it.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd suggest that most of the new breed are into it because it is fashionable and will be gone when it no longer is. The demographic making up the "New golfer" side of cycling is exactly the same as that which fueled the motorcycle boom from the mid nineties and lasted for a decade before dying on it's arse. Thirty to sixty age group, affluent with high disposable incomes, a liking for the best performance bikes and matching kit, mostly without very much technical knowledge outside of what they read in the magazines.
> 
> You will know that a boom in cycling is genuine when you see far more people buying the sort of practical bikes club cyclists back in the day rode when they were not racing or training, ie mudguards, non race geometry and something other than a glorified fag packet strapped under the saddle for carrying capacity. To be a lifelong cyclist you need to enjoy riding a bike for the sheer pleasure of it, not just till the novelty of setting strava times wears off and you have run out of new kit to buy, or those you want to impress no longer do it.



It's entirely possible that you are correct.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (30 Jul 2017)

No-one told me the 30-60 age group were affluent with a high disposable income. Where is it? 

Seriously though, I have a friend who likes expensive bikes and the toys, but he uses them - a lot - and it's what he chooses to spend his money on. His house is modest and DIY jobs often wait, he spends more time on his bike so that's where he spends his money.

Just because someone has a nice bike doesn't mean that they are not normal working class people. No-one bats an eyelid at a £4K car outside a council house so why is a bike different?


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## hoopdriver (30 Jul 2017)

I don't think it is the cost of the bicycles - as you say, many a working class cyclist may well have the same or better. I think it is the faddishness, the sense of people following a trend and having no real commitment to, or knowledge of, cycling or being a cyclist.


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## Saluki (30 Jul 2017)

I'm not posh (my family is though and I am the black sheep) and I ride my bike. I suspect that cycling, for some, is the new golf.


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## Bollo (30 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> Yet the last time I and some friends tried to stop at a local golf club for a coffee, they wouldn't let us in because of our cycling gear .


Earlier this month Radio 4 broadcast a programme about golf's problems and the rise of cycling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08wn9mj

The emphasis was definitely on golf's current woes and the comparisons with cycling were a bit superficial, but it's worth a listen if you've an interest.


----------



## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd suggest that most of the new breed are into it because it is fashionable and will be gone when it no longer is. The demographic making up the "New golfer" side of cycling is exactly the same as that which fueled the motorcycle boom from the mid nineties and lasted for a decade before dying on it's arse. Thirty to sixty age group, affluent with high disposable incomes, a liking for the best performance bikes and matching kit, mostly without very much technical knowledge outside of what they read in the magazines.
> 
> You will know that a boom in cycling is genuine when you see far more people buying the sort of practical bikes club cyclists back in the day rode when they were not racing or training, ie mudguards, non race geometry and something other than a glorified fag packet strapped under the saddle for carrying capacity. To be a lifelong cyclist you need to enjoy riding a bike for the sheer pleasure of it, not just till the novelty of setting strava times wears off and you have run out of new kit to buy, or those you want to impress no longer do it.





Cronorider said:


> It's entirely possible that you are correct.



It's equally possible that he is so wrong. We all have to buy a certain type of bike that smokin Joe approves of before we can even consider that there's a sustainable boom in cycling. Talk about elitists.


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## Lee_M (30 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Says the man categorising himself as "successful" and "reasonably well off"



Actually I said "I would probably be considered" 

Personally I categorise myself as a bit of a twat, but that's not strictly relevant to this thread :-)


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## marzjennings (30 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Cycling is a sport open to most people (more needs to be done to promote it as such). I don't think you'll find the record books full of affluent family names and historically it was a sport of the poor. There are few professional cyclists who come from "rich" backgrounds.



Agreed, the bar is pretty low on getting into the sport, but there is a bar. A financial breakpoint at which point someone has the available cash to train and race competitively. As a kid there was no chance we were going to have the funds for me to race. It wasn't until my late-twenties and making a reasonable income was I able to afford to pay the racing license, travel expenses, entry fees, etc.etc to go race.


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## Lee_M (30 Jul 2017)

this is a bizarre thread.

Apparently all new cyclists are upper crust, they have no idea, they ride the wrong bikes and they will leave the "sport" when it is no longer fashionable.

In my experience in our club, we have a bunch of people riding all sorts of bikes from 1960s classics to carbon bikes costing 1000s who have found a pastime that they enjoy, gets them fit, is extremely sociable (we do lots of coffee stops) and is just bloody good fun, and they all do it together without any looking down at the "other sort" of bikes.

I think I'll have to get them together and re categorise them and tell them which ones need to leave the club because they arent proper cyclists accoridng to the cyclechat enforcers


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2017)

Slick said:


> It's equally possible that he is so wrong. We all have to buy a certain type of bike that smokin Joe approves of before we can even consider that there's a sustainable boom in cycling. Talk about elitists.


It is possible I am wrong, but I doubt it. Like all fads the rise was spectacular, attracted the luvvies who just had to be seen enjoying the latest "Must do" and became the talk of the media who know a good thing when they see it.

In the seventies it was jogging, the eighties saw the celebs sitting in the front row at snooker matches, in the nineties everyone who was anyone had a Ducati or a Honda Fireblade in the garage. Once the novelty of whatever craze wore off running went back to the athletes, snooker was reclaimed by fag smoking near do wells like myself and motorcycling returned to the dirty fingernail brigade.


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> It is possible I am wrong, but I doubt it. Like all fads the rise was spectacular, attracted the luvvies who just had to be seen enjoying the latest "Must do" and became the talk of the media who know a good thing when they see it.
> 
> In the seventies it was jogging, the eighties saw the celebs sitting in the front row at snooker matches, in the nineties everyone who was anyone had a Ducati or a Honda Fireblade in the garage. Once the novelty of whatever craze wore off running went back to the athletes, snooker was reclaimed by fag smoking near do wells like myself and motorcycling returned to the dirty fingernail brigade.


Recumbents the next craze?


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## Levo-Lon (30 Jul 2017)

User13710 said:


> Well, I don't really have any interest at all in golf, but that clubhouse was the only place that was open and serving tea/coffee at that time in the morning and in that locale. What surprised me was the sheer snobbery of the response when I asked if non-members could come in for coffee - yes, but not dressed like that! (We were four women not in the first flush of youth, wearing cycling shorts and shirts, nothing outrageous at all. Not compared with plaid plus-fours anyway .)
> 
> Further down the road, however, there's a smaller, less exclusive golf club which has a sign at the end of the drive saying "Bar/restaurant, all welcome". We didn't bother to test that out, but possibly it illustrates the weakness in the OP's argument. The snobbery attaches more to some subsections of the golf world rather than all of it, and likewise saying that "cycling" has become "very upper crust" is equally ludicrous. Some bits are, some bits aren't.



I used to play a lot of golf ...some clubs are just pathetic old boys clubs.. You need to wear a tie to pee..

Lots of clubs are diversifying now to just try and survive..
As for not selling you tea and coffee...thats just naff


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Jul 2017)

Mmm, delicious, crispy upper crusts, smothered in onion gravy.


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## Racing roadkill (30 Jul 2017)

iateyoubutler said:


> That`s how it appears to me
> 
> Doesn`t feel like I fit the criteria any more, almost as though I have to talk posh!
> 
> ...


It's the new Golf. The sorts of tossers who used to play Golf, now cycle. I just try to ignore them, get on with my own rides.


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## Lee_M (30 Jul 2017)

> Once the novelty of whatever craze wore off running went back to the athletes,



err yep that'll be why no one jogs anymore and no one runs the london marathon




> motorcycling returned to the dirty fingernail brigade.



What universe are you living in? the vast majority of motorcyclists these days are still the more well off middle aged

given you're completely wrong about this I would suggest you're probably completely wrong about cycling too


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## screenman (30 Jul 2017)

Dan B said:


> Really? I speak to myself all the time. Rarely results in a sensible conversation, though



I spent an hour telling myself jokes once, total waste of time, I had heard them all before.


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## screenman (30 Jul 2017)

Things are no different than when I started racing back in 1970, some had rich parents with cars some like myself rode out to every race even cross races in winter. Some became life time cyclists and others saw the light and got out.


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## Randomnerd (30 Jul 2017)

> It is possible I am wrong, but I doubt it



Oh dear.

Bizarre thread indeed, with some bizarre, bigoted commentary about the increased popularity of a sport. 

Maybe it's that some of you would rather be a big fish in a little pool, eh? 

A better world would be had if you stopped moaning about how it used to all be better, about how you all know best, and just get on with letting everyone get on and enjoy themselves in whatever lawful pastime they choose, with whatever disposable income they wish.

I'm often reminded on this forum of The Frost Report's "Three Men on Class": you would have thought by now that we could change the record.


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Bizarre thread indeed, with some bizarre, bigoted commentary about the increased popularity of a sport.
> 
> ...


What's bigoted about my post? I'm merely commenting on which way I see the current cycling boom going, not wishing for any particular outcome.

We'll see.


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## Sandra6 (30 Jul 2017)

Whether you notice a trend in types of people who are "cyclists" must depend on what you class as a cyclist in the first place. 
I'm guessing the op is limiting the description to those who are members of clubs and go out on rides as a group. But they're not the only cyclists on the road. 
I'm a cyclist. I'm not a member of a cycling club and group rides are not my thing. I know lots of people like me who are out and about on bikes most days. Are we not cyclists? 
And how do you know what the cyclist who just passed you does for a living, or how much they earn and how much they spent on their bike? Maybe they nicked it! 
I work in a bike shop and even I don't know what all my customers do to earn enough to buy the bikes they buy - although a lot buy them on finance, so probably don't earn as much as you'd think they did to afford such a bike in the first place. 
There are, in my experience, as many low income budgeters as there are well paid "professionals" out there riding bikes. 
The golf thing is a funny one though, we were discussing this in the shop recently and cycling does seem to be the new sport of taxi drivers. Make of that what you will.


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## Apollonius (30 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> You will know that a boom in cycling is genuine when you see far more people buying the sort of practical bikes club cyclists back in the day rode when they were not racing or training, ie mudguards, non race geometry and something other than a glorified fag packet strapped under the saddle for carrying capacity. To be a lifelong cyclist you need to enjoy riding a bike for the sheer pleasure of it, not just till the novelty of setting strava times wears off and you have run out of new kit to buy, or those you want to impress no longer do it.



This does sound a little like the cry of the "bring back the past and I will feel safe again" types. Do you really believe that only the type of cycle you describe can give "the sheer pleasure of it"? I assure you that I get plenty of pleasure from my mudguard-free, ultra-lightweight, stripped of all but the most essential kit, carbon bike. In fact, the pleasure diminishes the closer I get to the sort of bike you describe. I had plenty of that back in the sixties, thanks, and no wish to go back there! And I ride mostly on my own, so not looking to impress - not that a near 70 year old overweight old man is going to impress anyone anyway!


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## Mrs M (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> I don't think I have ever met a cyclist who has played golf. What is this obsession with golf? Is it a class thing? I know cyclists who also ride and own horses, and cyclists who also sail (like me) but never a cyclist/golfer? Cyclists who ski, in plenty. Is golf seen as a higher class thing? Is there something wrong with golf as an activity? I have never tried it, so cannot say, but it does seem to be a bit of a meme on here.


Mr m plays golf and has done since he was a boy.
He plays because he enjoys it and is no bad for a chubby wee guy 
He also cycles because he enjoys that too (not as much as golf though) 
He's no snob and can't be done with them


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

Mrs M said:


> Mr m plays golf and has done since he was a boy.
> He plays because he enjoys it and is no bad for a chubby wee guy
> He also cycles because he enjoys that too (not as much as golf though)
> He's no snob and can't be done with them


Sounds like a man after my own heart.


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## johnnyb47 (30 Jul 2017)

At the end of the day does it really matter what kind of person a cyclist is. Each and every one of us is different and we all have our own personal reasons as to why we want or need to cycle. Looking at it all as a whole picture is what makes cycling so interesting. There's so many different angles to it that makes it so diversely interesting. 
For whatever your reasons or motives there's one thing you can be assured of that we all have in common. We enjoy this beautiful simple invention of the bicycle.


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## Tin Pot (30 Jul 2017)

iateyoubutler said:


> That`s how it appears to me



But not to most others.

Remember there is no such thing as a cyclist, there are only people who cycle. Bikes don't make someone different or special. It's just someone who owns a bike.

[quite]
I`ve never been one for "keeping up with the Jones`s" or worrying about other people,but ...[/QUOTE]
...but now you are


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## Blue Hills (30 Jul 2017)

In connection with your comment above, smokin jo, and your name, i used to lead lots of rides. I remember expressing surprise to a young female cyclist that she smoked. She looked at me as if I was spectacularly dim and said: " i don't cycle because it's healthy, I cycle because it's cool"


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## Julia9054 (30 Jul 2017)

I don't think golf is posh like it used to be. Many clubs have dropped the whole membership thing and it's now pay to play and coaching to encourage young people. Golf clubs would die off otherwise. Golf is quite popular amongst teenagers these days - they are the future of the sport. 
I have several friends who enjoy playing golf - all brass banders and none would be described as posh!


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## screenman (30 Jul 2017)

I enjoyed watching about 40 under sixteen year old kids with ages from 8 upwards racing and smiling yesterday, I do not think any of them were big earners though.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Jul 2017)

One of the things that


Smokin Joe said:


> I'd suggest that most of the new breed are into it because it is fashionable and will be gone when it no longer is. The demographic making up the "New golfer" side of cycling is exactly the same as that which fueled the motorcycle boom from the mid nineties and lasted for a decade before dying on it's arse. Thirty to sixty age group, affluent with high disposable incomes, a liking for the best performance bikes and matching kit, mostly without very much technical knowledge outside of what they read in the magazines.
> 
> You will know that a boom in cycling is genuine when you see far more people buying the sort of practical bikes club cyclists back in the day rode when they were not racing or training, ie mudguards, non race geometry and something other than a glorified fag packet strapped under the saddle for carrying capacity. To be a lifelong cyclist you need to enjoy riding a bike for the sheer pleasure of it, not just till the novelty of setting strava times wears off and you have run out of new kit to buy, or those you want to impress no longer do it.


One of the things that hacks me off most about the new breed is their reluctance to recognise and respect their elders and betters. They a buy a bike and fancy kit and within a few rides are pontificating on how the sport should change. They join a club and within weeks of joining are trying to change it. They join chat rooms and are immediately quoting 'rules' that they've read in a silly book or magazine that they think the rest of us should be following. Why can't they just keep quiet, learn the ropes from the rest of us, and only when they've stood the test of time, say 20 years, should they consider themselves qualified to start platforming their views on us.


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## hoopdriver (30 Jul 2017)

That's a bit harsh. And not very welcoming. Talk of respecting one's 'betters' smacks of something out of Dickens.


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## Bollo (30 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> One of the things that
> 
> One of the things that hacks me off most about the new breed is their reluctance to recognise and respect their elders and betters. They a buy a bike and fancy kit and within a few rides are pontificating on how the sport should change. They join a club and within weeks of joining are trying to change it. They join chat rooms and are immediately quoting 'rules' that they've read in a silly book or magazine that they think the rest of us should be following. Why can't they just keep quiet, learn the ropes from the rest of us, and only when they've stood the test of time, say 20 years, should they consider themselves qualified to start platforming their views on us.


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

User said:


> Ever thought it may be because you're not?
> 
> After all, you're from north of the border...


Which just goes to prove he must be. It's just the natural order of thing's.


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## Oxo (30 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Why can't they just keep quiet, learn the ropes from the rest of us,


Are you advocating that people should forget about getting into cycling and take up climbing or sailing instead.


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## screenman (30 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> One of the things that
> 
> One of the things that hacks me off most about the new breed is their reluctance to recognise and respect their elders and betters. They a buy a bike and fancy kit and within a few rides are pontificating on how the sport should change. They join a club and within weeks of joining are trying to change it. They join chat rooms and are immediately quoting 'rules' that they've read in a silly book or magazine that they think the rest of us should be following. Why can't they just keep quiet, learn the ropes from the rest of us, and only when they've stood the test of time, say 20 years, should they consider themselves qualified to start platforming their views on us.



And you started when? Things have not changed since solid tyres were the norm.


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## Flick of the Elbow (30 Jul 2017)

I bought into this sport 35 years ago. I've lived and breathed it all this time. I quietly learned the ropes from my elders and betters in my first clubs. I still regard them as my elders and betters. The opinions of newcomers carry no weight. Chances are they will have moved on to something else in a few years.


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

Luddite.


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## boydj (30 Jul 2017)

Apollonius said:


> The world has moved on. Manual jobs are virtually extinct, and* most employed people are reasonably affluen*t. ................................!



Tell that to the guys and gals on minimum wage.


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## Oxo (30 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I bought into this sport 35 years ago. I've lived and breathed it all this time. I quietly learned the ropes from my elders and betters in my first clubs. I still regard them as my elders and betters. The opinions of newcomers carry no weight. Chances are they will have moved on to something else in a few years.


With an attitude like that chances are they will have moved on to another club where they are made to feel welcome.


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## bpsmith (30 Jul 2017)

Some of the above comments are bonkers.

What I can't get my head around is why people have such ridiculous opinions on someone spending lots of money on a bike. I also can't quite work out the demographic of those that have such views.

Personally, I will likely never afford a £10k bike. Do I feel anything negative towards those that can? Clearly not. On that basis alone, my assumption can only be that the people with such views must be those that could afford to buy such a bike, but have chosen to use the cash in something else. Only to then be jealous of those who decided to buy said bike.

You can't have it all!

Another irony that I have noticed is that those, that pull a face at spending £10k on a bike, already have multiple bikes totalling more than that amount, and more, already...


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## Andy_R (30 Jul 2017)

I like to ride my bike on my own. It's a form of escape for me. If I didn't get a chance to escape from you all, I would end up on the News at 10....with a machete and a sledge hammer....but that's only because I listen to Moby and Peter Gabriel when I'm riding......


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## FishFright (30 Jul 2017)

This thread is so ridiculous I expected Lord Haw Haw to be be in it blaming the EU


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## johnnyb47 (30 Jul 2017)

You've only got to watch the big cycling event in London this weekend ,which proves cycling is for all walks of life. BMX bikes, serious roadies to brompton racing. Families enjoying a fun day out with there kids. This is what cycling is all about. It's a mass diversity of all things good. Upper crust or not we are all doing what we enjoy and not hurting anybody else..


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## bpsmith (30 Jul 2017)

You forgot Penny Farthing's. In saying that, they're only riding those because they're fashionable...


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## F70100 (31 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> I would probably be considered successful and reasonably well off
> Not upper crust though, my dad was a milkman and I come from a mining family.



Are you my brother?

I even worked in the coal mines myself and have been very lucky since they closed.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Some of the above comments are bonkers.
> 
> What I can't get my head around is why people have such ridiculous opinions on someone spending lots of money on a bike. I also can't quite work out the demographic of those that have such views.
> 
> ...



I could afford a £10k bike. Unfortunately, I've barely got £1k legs or lungs, so the only thing it would aid is my ego.


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## Bollo (31 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> What's wrong with Upper Crust? When I'm in the mood for a stale ham and cheese croissant, they are the equal of Delice de France any day.


Ipad weetabix removal tips please!


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## Lee_M (31 Jul 2017)

F70100 said:


> Are you my brother?
> 
> I even worked in the coal mines myself and have been very lucky since they closed.



with a milkman for a dad I could be


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## Milkfloat (31 Jul 2017)

About the only thing that this thread has confirmed is that many cyclists are nobbers with a very twisted view of life.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> with a milkman for a dad I could be



Is that why your middle name is Gold Top?


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## Firestorm (31 Jul 2017)

To be honest I recognise a bit of myself in the op, but I am also confused about myself
My Grandparents Rode and raced. My parents too, my brother still races, so i am from a cycling family.
I was transported in a cycle sidecar for my first year. Dad was a factory worker in those days.
I work in the city, have a nice house and have recently upgraded my bike to a nice carbon bike (albeit second hand) which I dont get out on enough but love getting bits for. I have lidl , Aldi and castelli gear. Plus a set of golf clubs , an MTB and two motorbikes , all of which i dont use enough either....
I do comment to Mrs FS about other cyclists we see, primarily " he/she is going well/ working hard" or "that saddles too low".
It takes all sorts .....


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## hoopdriver (31 Jul 2017)

I actually do own a Pegoretti which I bought about ten years ago, when Dario Pegoretti was still relatively unknown outside of a small circle of racing aficionados. It is lovely to ride and I enjoy it for what it is, a beautifully crafted bicycle - but even the supposed cachet of a Pegoretti does not stop a small minority of riders from looking down their noses at me, or indeed anyone and everyone who isn't _them_.


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## screenman (31 Jul 2017)

How do you tell if someone is looking down their nose at you?


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## hoopdriver (31 Jul 2017)

It ain't hard.

The wrinkled brow, the expression on the face as though they just smelled a fart, the curled lip..need I go on?


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## bpsmith (31 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> 's easy. Just see someone with a bike that you can't afford, and use your imagination.


That's a huge assumption right there, quite frankly. No prizes for where the "nobber" comment, mentioned above, was aimed towards.


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## Lee_M (31 Jul 2017)

Firestorm said:


> I ... have recently upgraded my bike to a nice carbon bike (albeit second hand)



Why is it wrong to buy a new carbon bike if you can afford it? If you got a good deal on a second hand one then that's great, but there's nothing wrong with people spending on buying a new one, and no need for you to be apologetic for having one however you acquired it

All this inverted snobbery (not your post, but the general posts on here) does my head in, it's like me stating anyone with a steel bike isnt a real cyclist because they probably can't go as fast as they could on a lighter carbon TT bike so they obviously aren't serious cyclists. It's all b****cks


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## Lee_M (31 Jul 2017)

> How do you tell if someone is looking down their nose at you?





Dogtrousers said:


> 's easy. Just see someone with a bike that you can't afford, and use your imagination.





bpsmith said:


> That's a huge assumption right there, quite frankly. No prizes for where the "nobber" comment, mentioned above, was aimed towards.



I assumed that was ironic and he didnt actually mean that


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## hoopdriver (31 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I didn't mean what?
> 
> This has all got a bit heated and frankly rather baffling. I may have meant exactly "that". I may or may not have made a "huge assumption".
> 
> ...


Hopefully the frog was already dead...


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## derrick (31 Jul 2017)

It looks like that green eyed monster is showing itself.


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## hoopdriver (31 Jul 2017)

derrick said:


> It looks like that green eyed monster is showing itself.


The frog?


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## Venod (31 Jul 2017)

Firestorm said:


> "that saddles too low"



I hate to see people riding with too low saddles, its one of the best bits of advice you can give anybody to set the seat at the correct height.


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## Blue Hills (31 Jul 2017)

It's good advice.

I was originally given it by a priest on the dynamo.

Received in the spirit in which it was meant even though i am a total atheist.

Have since given the same advice to 2 or 3 folk in london.

Never had a bad response.


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## GuyBoden (31 Jul 2017)

Posh people need to unite and fight against discrimination.

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

You’re legally protected from discrimination by the Equality Act 2010.

*Discrimination: your rights*


*1. Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')*
*It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:*


*age*
*being or becoming a transsexual person*
*being married or in a civil partnership*
*being pregnant or on maternity leave*
*disability*
*race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin*
*religion, belief or lack of religion/belief*
*sex*
*sexual orientation*
*Having a carbon Bicycle and expensive cycling gear.*


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## Venod (31 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE 4901927, member: 259"]I hate it when people's saddles are too high. The hip rocking fills me with righteous indignation. And don't get me started on that Elvis Presley![/QUOTE]

Yes I hate that as well (I'm becoming a very hateful person)


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## Pat "5mph" (31 Jul 2017)

Honestly, some of you are unreal!
What sport and sport: utilitarian is the future of cycling.
Commuting, shop and school runs, cycling to a party or to the pub.
Any bike will do as long as it has mudguards, sturdy tyres and some lights.
The only ones left behind will be the ones stuck in their cars in a traffic jam.
Everybody welcome, age, waist size no object.
Spend the money you saved on bus fares in a new, shiny, pair of Ortlieb panniers 

[QUOTE 4899977, member: 9609"]some were having a good laugh at my seat and handlebars[/QUOTE]
Yeah, well, you must admit the state of your saddle is atrocious


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## derrick (31 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> The frog?


Kermit


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## bpsmith (31 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> (Edit. I've just read back a few posts. I may have partially figured this out. @bpsmith : re-read my post, and concentrate on the word "imagination")


I too have just read the posts back. You were right too, @Lee_M. Far too clever for me, it appears. I must have extremely little sense, being as though I am skint, but still have more money than sense.

I take it back. Apologies.


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## Lee_M (31 Jul 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I too have just read the posts back. You were right too, @Lee_M. Far too clever for me, it appears. I must have extremely little sense, being as though I am skint, but still have more money than sense.
> 
> I take it back. Apologies.



Glad that's all sorted.

Now can we all accept anyone can ride what the heck they like, spend whatever money they want on a bike and gear, and we're all better than nobbers who try to knock us off because we held them up for 5 seconds?

Cool


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## bpsmith (31 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> Glad that's all sorted.
> 
> Now can we all accept anyone can ride what the heck they like, spend whatever money they want on a bike and gear, and we're all better than nobbers who try to knock us off because we held them up for 5 seconds?
> 
> Cool


That was always my stance too. The comment was using someone else's word, from above, because I thought they were commenting the opposite.

Anyway, I echo what @Lee_M just put. Let's all enjoy cycling. No need for elitism of any kind, as long as you understand that I am better than you.


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## Lee_M (31 Jul 2017)

bpsmith said:


> That was always my stance too. The comment was using someone else's word, from above, because I thought they were commenting the opposite.
> 
> Anyway, I echo what @Lee_M just put. Let's all enjoy cycling. No need for elitism of any kind, as long as you understand that I am better than you.



I am offended. This is the sort of attitude that is spoiling cycling for everyone, as I'm obviously better than you :-)


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## Oxo (1 Aug 2017)

Lee_M said:


> I am offended. This is the sort of attitude that is spoiling cycling for everyone, as I'm obviously better than you :-)


I feel a dual coming on. Gentlemen, may I suggest you turn up at my gates at dawn with the bicycle of your choice, a ten mile race through my estate to decide the winner.


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## hoopdriver (1 Aug 2017)

Oxo said:


> I feel a dual coming on. Gentlemen, may I suggest you turn up at my gates at dawn with the bicycle of your choice, a ten mile race through my estate to decide the winner.


Yes, but if you come to _my_ estate, you can have a _twenty_ mile race in the back garden of my gate-keeper's guesthouse...

Or you could go to my summer place in Monaco and race each other on the velodrome on the third floor

Take your pick gentlemen...


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## Lee_M (1 Aug 2017)

I am unable to make it, can I send my chauffeur?

His name is Wiggins, please ignore his lower class attitude, but give him a swift clip around the ear if he gets above himself


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## hoopdriver (1 Aug 2017)

My man Froome will see to his every comfort - or discomfort as the case may be.


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## Lee_M (1 Aug 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> My man Froome will see to his every comfort - or discomfort as the case may be.



will he leave his charge halfway up a mountain though, despite your strict instructions?


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## hoopdriver (1 Aug 2017)

Abandoning a chap who can't keep up might _be _my strict instructions. We have standards, you know.


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## galaxy (2 Aug 2017)

Get on your bike and enjoy


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## Jason (3 Aug 2017)

galaxy said:


> Get on your bike and enjoy



so 11 pages in - and this sums it up nicely :-)


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