# Must commuters race each other?



## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

The post on Twilight Zone cycling got me thinking about a couple of recent experiences with what I can only call 'competitive commuters'.

I'm in my 50's and commute to work most days on a tourer at a steady, unhurried pace - not sedate, but not 20+mph either, so I'm not exactly going to be mistaken for a stray from the Tour de France. Several times in recent weeks - today included - I've overtaken other cyclists (people frequently half my age) because they were going more slowly than me only for them to seemingly interpret this as me somehow 'challenging' them or wanting to race. So they speed up and clatter past me, standing out of the saddle, puffing and panting, legs whizzing round in heaven knows what gear.

Why does this happen? What is the point, really?


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## Tynan (22 Jul 2009)

I like chasing people faster than me, especially days when I'm noodling along in a world of my own, not racing, just following

I do like a race with people that are faster than me, like proper fast 

this is London commuting though so shags of bikes and riders on offer


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## very-near (22 Jul 2009)

Human nature. We are taught to be competitive in school from a very young age.


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## Cromcruaich (22 Jul 2009)

No point, just human nature. Why did america want to put a man on the moon before russia?


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## ChrisKH (22 Jul 2009)

Well I have to say I had you down as mid 30's beanz..............


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## very-near (22 Jul 2009)

User said:


> Nothing to do with human nature... it was a response to the Russian development of a rocket capable of being used as an ICBM...
> 
> But that's OT



The Saturn V rocket was developed specifically to take man to the moon.

They already had the capability to deliver a nuclear warhead anywhere they wanted with the silo based Titan II, as well as their submarine based Polaris. It was all about national pride in the most expensive pissing contest in history.


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## John the Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

What Tynan said, mostly.

It does annoy me slightly when people try to draft me, and on such occasions I'll generally try to drop them, unless they're people I know.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

S'good training, Beanz!!

I haven't been overtaken (yet) other than by Tharg who sneaked up on me as I was pootling along in my own world... but if I was then I'd try to latch on and only overtake if I knew I could maintain the higher pace... would look a bit silly if you force past for them to catch you immediately.


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

User said:


> It's the cycling keeping him young, innit....



Oi, Mrs B - are you listening?


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## Bristol Dave (22 Jul 2009)

There is a thread on the bikeradar forum on this very subject with over 13,000 posts. It includes a scoring system and everything!

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12575770

I don't understand it either frankly. I just do my thing and often get overtaken by an elderly lady with a wicker basket on her bike who goes like the clappers!

BD


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## very-near (22 Jul 2009)

User said:


> I can't be arsed to correct you Linf/very-near but you're wrong.
> 
> I suggest that you read some serious history books on the subject - Wikipedia doesn't count.



What would they be - moon landing conspiracies for the terminally skeptical ?


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> S'good training, Beanz!!
> 
> I haven't been overtaken (yet) other than by Tharg who sneaked up on me as I was pootling along in my own world... but if I was then I'd try to latch on and only overtake if I knew I could maintain the higher pace... would look a bit silly if you force past for them to catch you immediately.



I try not to rise to it, Sh4key, but sometimes it's just so blatant a put-down! I wonder if they're thinking: "Blimey! I _must_ be faster than that bloke! He's got to be 50 at least!". 

I suppose if it was down to that, I could see it as a compliment!


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## hackbike 666 (22 Jul 2009)

I have been overtaken many times recently although my fitness is very suspect at the moment.I even pulled out of an invitation to ride the London - Southend last Sunday with work colleagues.


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## Theseus (22 Jul 2009)

If I happen to pass someone as I am cruisnig along and they then up thier pace to pass me, I will just latch onto thier wheel and let them do the work. Had one chap get a bit upset about it so I told him it was his choice to pass me when he could have just taken the lift off me. All wheels are fair game, offered or not.


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

Touche said:


> If I happen to pass someone as I am cruisnig along and they then up thier pace to pass me, *I will just latch onto thier wheel and let them do the work*. Had one chap get a bit upset about it so I told him it was his choice to pass me when he could have just taken the lift off me. All wheels are fair game, offered or not.



Good point, and drafting / semi-drafting has crossed my mind more than once, but I'm not a great believer in it. Just a chance that a mean-minded cyclist in front could also slam their brakes on in a hurry?


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## skwerl (22 Jul 2009)

very-near said:


> Human nature. We are taught...from a very young age.



Isn't that an oxymoron?


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## colinr (22 Jul 2009)

I overtake every cyclist I encounter on my commute, I'm yet to find anyone going fast enough to be worth drafting. There are no challengers round these parts


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## 4F (22 Jul 2009)

beanzontoast said:


> Why does this happen? What is the point, really?



Commuter racing  The point is that there is no point however a scalp is a scalp and I really am old enough to know better but just cannot resist.


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

4F said:


> Commuter racing  The point is that there is no point however a scalp is a scalp and I really am old enough to know better but just cannot resist.



Yes, but if someone was serious about it, surely they'd be riding a bike that wasn't making mis-aligned noises like it was made of badly-tightened Meccano and in danger of falling to bits any moment? The one that passed me today didn't sound like a hardened racer's machine!


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## hackbike 666 (22 Jul 2009)

If someone was serious they would not be riding a tank like I ride but a bike that consists of the least amount of weight,while kitted out like a Tour De Force rider.


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> If someone was serious they would not be riding a tank like I ride but a bike that consists of the least amount of weight,while kitted out like a Tour De Force rider.



Maybe the guy that did it to me this morning was only a trainee commuter racer?


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## Twiggy (22 Jul 2009)

John the Monkey said:


> What Tynan said, mostly.
> 
> It does annoy me slightly when people try to draft me, and on such occasions I'll generally try to drop them, unless they're people I know.



So someone who's waiting for a safe moment to overtake you has to deal with you speeding up because you "don't know them"

Sounds kinda childish to me, well, that and the whole racing thing.


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## Jake (22 Jul 2009)

don't you get the red mist though? If your happily pottering along becuase your feeling ill, or your thinking about something else instead of paying attention, then someoen tries to over take, don't you wake up and go HELL NO! then put your foot down and leave them behind wishing they had never even thought about overtaking? (happeend last night with some sooped up brompton painted like a tiger). Also red mist comes over then there is a nice bike, well any bike, infront of you and you have to catch it up and take it! Also get red mist when waiting at traffic lights and prats either go right through (mountain bikes and fixies), or they pull and wait just ahead of you on their rusty bike they owned since the age of 10. Thus making you have to overtake on the pull away. hmmmm I do get a lot of red mist.


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## Jake (22 Jul 2009)

Twiggy said:


> So someone who's waiting for a safe moment to overtake you has to deal with you speeding up because you "don't know them"
> 
> Sounds kinda childish to me, well, that and the whole racing thing.




oh come on, its all a bit of harmless fun to help you on your journey, a bit of competition. IF youve got a road bike, you want to "ride" it sometimes, otherwise whats the point of owning one.


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## redjedi (22 Jul 2009)

I don't see that many cyclists on my commute, but when I do it gives me something to aim for. Cycling is my twice daily workout, so I like to work up a sweat.

I very rarely get scalped, when I do it's usually very fit cyclist, often one of the London Dynamos.

I did once have a MTBer try to re-scalp me as I had easily cruised past him. He tried as hard as he could to catch up, I even kept slowing down for him


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

Thinking about it some more, I don't think you can reliably tell by the bike whether someone is going to decide to race you or not. Maybe people on nice road bikes are a bit more likely to - or maybe, in my case, they wouldn't see me on my tourer as a challenge whereas someone on a mtb might? I dunno. Wouldn't be able to draft a roadie if I wanted to anyway!


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## 4F (22 Jul 2009)

beanzontoast said:


> Yes, but if someone was serious about it, surely they'd be riding a bike that wasn't making mis-aligned noises like it was made of badly-tightened Meccano and in danger of falling to bits any moment? The one that passed me today didn't sound like a hardened racer's machine!



Maybe his good bike was off the road. One guy I see most days rides a bike with a chain which I am sure has not seen oil in the past ten years and with a cotter pin so knackered one pedal nearly catches up with the other one. It really is amazing how these bikes keep going year after year without any form of maintenance.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Jul 2009)

colinr said:


> I overtake every cyclist I encounter on my commute, I'm yet to find anyone going fast enough to be worth drafting. There are no challengers round these parts


Hmmm, Norwich eh? Who's that standup who does the 'anyone in from Norfolk this evening? Hey - gimme six!'


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## hackbike 666 (22 Jul 2009)

Actually I don't really find it childish if people want to race me,I just know im all washed up and can just about keep up with an old granny on her shopping bike.(You know what I mean)


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## Jake (22 Jul 2009)

lucky jedi, a lot of the roads around here are so FUBAR'd your waiting fro a crunch from your rim, a pop from your tire or crack from your forks each time. Other half of the jounry is great, and yes it sgreat to work up a sweat and put your all into the ride, if your wanting to keep fit. which i guess, thats why a lot of people do it.

london dynamo? ha, i overtook one of them on the triathlon, ok she was about 13yrs old but hey lol. I better watch out, going to get scalped by a gang of them on way home tonight

ps, off this topic, but been wathcing le Tour constantly at work, (france2), and dam, a lot of them still come off when hitting road markings, thought they would try and avoid them when poss, especialy when wet. Would love to do a FLAT stage next year lol


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## Johnny5 (22 Jul 2009)

I treat my commutes as training sessions and always pushing for that high average speed...my current best is 18.5mph including slowing down and sprinting back up at lights for my 11.5 mile single trip commute! If any other cyclist, can ride faster than me, then fare does but they better keep the speed up, otherwise you'll be over taken again! 

I had a few guys overtake me while I was waiting at some red lights and they just ran it! Once it went green, I just quicky caught up and overtook them again! What say is that if you are going to overtake someone then you'd better keep up the speed otherwise you'll just look a bit stupid the the other person retakes over you again further down the ride.

Always sit back, assess the rider in front before making a move.


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## Johnny5 (22 Jul 2009)

I also forgot to mention that everytime I overtake a cyclist, I always give them a nice friendly left hand wave just to say thanks so there's no hostile feeling created from my manouver.


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## colinr (22 Jul 2009)

> Hmmm, Norwich eh? Who's that standup who does the 'anyone in from Norfolk this evening? Hey - gimme six!'



A bit like CSI Norfolk - "I need the DNA sample"


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## Jake (22 Jul 2009)

Johnny5 said:


> Always sit back, assess the rider in front before making a move.




yes i like having a good look too


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## Johnny5 (22 Jul 2009)

Jake said:


> yes i like having a good look too



That's right Jake, if it's a nice bird infront then there's no need to even overtake!  just sit back and enjoy the view.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Jul 2009)

Does anyone else have self-imposed 'rules'? Mine include, you don't have to overtake, but you mustn't be overtaken (or, if overtaken, allow it to stand), and it doesn't count if you get beat by a rider doing anything stupid and/or hazardous and/or arsey to others (eg, weaving between peds on a crossing). Oh, and anyone who makes a big show of overtaking only to turn off 25 yards later is a tosspot and a big girl's blouse. That's not a rule, just a reality.


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## Jake (22 Jul 2009)

overtook one of those stupid eco-fed-ex-vans today. Dam thing got in my way!


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## Plax (22 Jul 2009)

It really annoys me when people overtake you and then go slower and get in your way. So you overtake them again, and then they overtake you again and go even slower. One guy kept doing this and in the end he really pissed me off so I overtook him and went like the clappers so he couldn't keep up to overtake me again. Obviously it's not cool to get overtaken by a girl on a touring bike.


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## ComedyPilot (22 Jul 2009)

On my normal ride I turned a corner and saw someone (scalp) on a bike half a mile or so in front. I didn't speed up much, just increased the pace, and overtook them about 1.5 miles up the road. I held the advantage and increased it to about 500yards before I lost sight and didn't see them again. 

It is the cyclist in front's job to keep me behind. It is my duty as overtaker to get past, then increase the lead and get away.

The chaser gets a work out catching up, the leader gets a work out staying in front.

Everyone's a winner.


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## beanzontoast (22 Jul 2009)

ComedyPilot said:


> On my normal ride I turned a corner and saw someone (scalp) on a bike half a mile or so in front. I didn't speed up much, just increased the pace, and overtook them about 1.5 miles up the road. I held the advantage and increased it to about 500yards before I lost sight and didn't see them again.
> 
> 
> > This sounds like a race commentary to me!


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## HLaB (22 Jul 2009)

> *Must commuters race each other?*



No but they do ;-)


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## purplepolly (22 Jul 2009)

Plax said:


> Obviously it's not cool to get overtaken by a girl on a touring bike.



How about a girl on a folding touring bike? In reality I only overtake gutter huggers on BSOs and yoofs but if they're male it's still funny.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (22 Jul 2009)

I must admit this is the best thing about cycling to work, the scalping of other riders.
I do make a point of free wheeling past MTB's though ! childish but makes me happy.

When I first started out, one guy, Bianchi Man I called him would always pass me, but as I got fitter the next time he passed me I followed him all the rest of the way, cause I am not havin it !

I am useless at every other sport, always get beaten by mates etc, but cycling is the only sport I am good at because its sheer determination and to pass people makes for an interesting ride home, plus it makes me work even harder than I normaly would.

But my rule is if your going to over take me, you can see I am not messin about, then over take and get on with it but don't over take and then piss about.

Everyone is fair game and it does make you work harder which is what I am after.


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## ianrauk (22 Jul 2009)

as far as I am concerned, everyone ahead of me is fair game what ever they ride or look like, and I expect to be fair game to anyone that is following me... all part of the daily commute that makes my life that little bit better...


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## benborp (22 Jul 2009)

I had a guy that I'd passed a short while earlier jump me at lights yesterday. 


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBCxCoKxqM8


Pointless and slightly dangerous.


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## Ian Johnson (22 Jul 2009)

Decided to head towards Manchester on my ride tonight for a change and ended up riding along the busy wilmslow road through fallowfield,I was taking it easy in the headwind, got overtaken by a roadie in baggie shorts,decided to up the speed a bit and put a little sprint on and flew past him again,mainly to get through a set of lights before they changed. Caught up with a bus accelerating from a stop and was slipstreaming it about 6 or 7 metres from the back of it for some while (maybee half a mile)speed was over 30 mph,the other rider was left way behind. Is this cheating However I needed to save energy for the ride back....to Hindley


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## beanzontoast (23 Jul 2009)

There's clearly a recurring element of 'it makes the commute more fun' in a lot of these posts. I have a better idea now of why this happens. 

Interesting that people react very differently to being overtaken though. Another illustration from earlier this month on the way home on a really hot sunny day... 

Me in shorts and cycling shirt on the drop-bar tourer avec pannier, waiting about 5 vehicles back in a queue of cars at the lights. Guy on an mtb (who had gone through the previous red I had waited at, only for me to overtake him further along the road) squeezes past me, jiggling his bike this way and that to get between the cars, almost taking out a wing mirror in the process and gets as far down the queue as he can - about 2 cars in front of me. Now this guy's in normal clothes and way overdressed for the weather: long trousers, shirt, jumper, quilted 3/4 length coat. He's clearly sweating buckets from catching me up. Lights change, off he goes. Now we're on a slight upward hill. He stays in a way too small gear, legs a blur, in and out of his saddle, obviously determined to get as far in front of me as possible. Equally obviously, me not being overweight, being fitter (on years of 2 hours a day exercise of one form or another) and riding in a better gear, overtakes him again - and this time I couldn't resist a look over the shoulder. It's true - a face really can be as red as a beetroot!

So, I wasn't racing... though he probably thought I was! You just can't win!


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## dellzeqq (23 Jul 2009)

on my own it's 'Avenging Angel of Death' time enlivened by having to chase down and pass RLJers, thus negating their cheating advantage and proving beyond doubt that they are Spawn of Satan.

with the Babe in tow it's 'my, look at that Ionic pilaster' while all kinds of odds and sods think 'coo, I've overtaken a Colnago'. You can see them looking at you in a kind of furtive way not quite believing their luck. Happily I am far too mature and secure in my own sexuality to allow this to trouble me. As the deeply impressed fingerprints in my bar tape testify....


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## Jake (23 Jul 2009)

benborp said:


> I had a guy that I'd passed a short while earlier jump me at lights yesterday.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBCxCoKxqM8
> ...




ah my route, what time was that. ps it wasnt me, if it was, all you would have seen was my back


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## summerdays (23 Jul 2009)

It doesn't normally bother me if I am overtaken - especially on a hill, but equally I do enjoy the small ting of satisfaction if I overtake someone (especially if they look as though they should be overtaking me instead), I seem to get more joy out of overtaking men than women


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## benborp (23 Jul 2009)

Jake said:


> ah my route, what time was that. ps it wasnt me, if it was, all you would have seen was my back



And so it begins...

That was at around 8pm. If you let me know what you're on I'll hunt you down er.. say hi.


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## redjedi (23 Jul 2009)

Today was the day that I decided I needed to start using my large ring (53) for most of my rides (this would give me a lower ring, 39, to use on the hills)

I was getting a bit bored, and as I hadn't seen any cyclists yet, I set myself a new target....a white car which was following a skip truck.

The road I was on has a very slight slope, was in good condition and these were the only vehicles in front of me. I was finding the higher gears quite easy so started to reel them in. I was soon hitting 30mph (by far the fastest I had done on this stretch of road), in the bus lane and cruised past them both 

When I got to the top of Kew bridge, I had to slow down because of traffic, and my hamstrings were letting me know that they needed a break.

But by far the most satisfying scalps so far, how many points do I get for that?


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## Toshiba Boy (23 Jul 2009)

Due to my job, haven't been able to commute by bike for some years.

However, in commuting days gone by, have occasionally used some of the old racing tricks when riding behind/about to overtake another rider who has "annoyed" me , i.e. overtaken me through red light etc., namely, waiting for a suitable rise, or better still a fully fledged climb, and then gently close up to his back wheel, whistling away and "clicking" my brake levers, before powering past and giving a loud "lovely day" accompanied by as pain free a smile as possible, before going eyeballs out

So childish, but soooo much fun


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## Ian Johnson (23 Jul 2009)

I wonder if people who commute by foot (walking) have the same mentality . If your pass someone who is also walking fast as they can to get home or too work,is this scalping too , without breaking into a jog/run


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## Bodhbh (23 Jul 2009)

Ian Johnson said:


> I wonder if people who commute by foot (walking) have the same mentality . If your pass someone who is also walking fast as they can to get home or too work,is this scalping too , without breaking into a jog/run


It's possible. When I walked in I used it as a work out, was doing a bit of hillwalking/backpacking at the time and all good training. I don't ahve a car so would do 10-20mile a day pretty easy just going about my business. So I was -probably doing something like 4-4.5mph. There was another guy who regularly walked a portion of the commute with a similar pace, with inevitable testosterone-induced consiquences...

Dunno if it's the TdF but seems to be silly season. I rarely see other cyclists on the road going in, but have had a few clashes this week. It is pretty daft, but I'd be lying if I said I was above it all.


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## Jake (23 Jul 2009)

benborp said:


> And so it begins...
> 
> That was at around 8pm. If you let me know what you're on I'll hunt you down er.. say hi.




no i'm a bit earlier, about 19.30/40 on average i guess. Its a bad junction in that when you pull up to the ASL, all the motorbikes flood it and go over the white line, and there are busses scrabmling for position (often see cyclists trying to go up the inside of them when they start to pull away, even when so close to the curb). Then as soon as the lights change, its a drag race to the next set of lights with all kinds of shunting going on


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## beanzontoast (23 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> on my own it's 'Avenging Angel of Death' time enlivened by having to chase down and pass RLJers, thus negating their cheating advantage and proving beyond doubt that they are Spawn of Satan.





Have to admit, having questioned 'why' it happens in the first place, what you describe so well is the main exception IMO: the one thing that does make me feel like giving chase sometimes. They're not just RLJ-ing - they're also trying to get one over on people who do stop for the lights.


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## 4F (23 Jul 2009)

My favourite is to scalp the cyclist in front just as they are scalping the one in front of them, two for the price of one


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## benborp (23 Jul 2009)

A double scalp?

From yesterday also:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHpT63G1yfs


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## swee'pea99 (23 Jul 2009)

4F said:


> My favourite is to scalp the cyclist in front just as they are scalping the one in front of them, two for the price of one


Or watching two likely lads giving it everything, neck & neck over a hundred metres before you cruise past the pair of them and away...


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## soulful dog (23 Jul 2009)

> *Must commuters race each other?*


 I know there are exceptions to every rule, but isn't this generally a male thing - men tend to be more competitive even (or especially ) if they are racing against other cyclists who aren't even bothered?!


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## Glow worm (24 Jul 2009)

Blimey. I'm beginning to wonder if I've joined the wrong forum. Luckily, I don't seem to have the competetiveness that seems to afflict many and frankly I couldn't give a flying **** if I get over taken or not. The only time I get riled when overtaken is when the faster bike then slows down and I either have to over take them again to maintain my constant sluggish 10-12mph, and look like a childish muppet, or pootle even slower at someone elses pace. Other than that, I'm normally too busy enjoying the ride. I have noticed this happens a lot in Cambridge - dunno why. So sorry to piss on people's parade here, but if they're anything like me, the folks you over take either don't even notice you or frankly couldn't give a toss


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## hackbike 666 (24 Jul 2009)

That's the way I like to think.This morning though I was racing to get to Waterloo on time but made it five minutes late so i still compete with myself.


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## Jake (24 Jul 2009)

Thought i had a race on my hands last night. Just got to brixton and out the corner of the eye i clocked another specialised elite. I though, no i wont let him know i've seen him, (he was just behind me on my right shoulder), I will play it cool but as soon as those lights go, I'm playing it like Lance Armstrong. Bloody bugger turned left! lol. Shame but hey.

(happy today as got the 30mph mark on a piece of road I've not done it on before, even with suspect swine flu, just missing the temperature.)


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## beanzontoast (26 Jul 2009)

Glow worm said:


> Blimey. *I'm beginning to wonder if I've joined the wrong forum*. Luckily, I don't seem to have the competetiveness that seems to afflict many and frankly I couldn't give a flying **** if I get over taken or not. The only time I get riled when overtaken is when the faster bike then slows down and I either have to over take them again to maintain my constant sluggish 10-12mph, and look like a childish muppet, or pootle even slower at someone elses pace. Other than that, I'm normally too busy enjoying the ride. I have noticed this happens a lot in Cambridge - dunno why. So *sorry to piss on people's parade here*, but if they're anything like me, the folks you over take either don't even notice you or frankly couldn't give a toss



This forum doesn't work that way. Highly unlikely anyone will take offence as everyone's entitled to see things their own way.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (26 Jul 2009)

Glow worm said:


> So sorry to piss on people's parade here, but *if they're anything like me, the folks you over take either don't even notice you or frankly couldn't give a toss*


That's what all people who are too slow to be any competition say.


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## Glow worm (27 Jul 2009)

[Quoting a beanzontoast contribution ''This forum doesn't work that way. Highly unlikely anyone will take offence as everyone's entitled to see things their own way. [/quote]''


Nice one, that's great to hear/read- thanks Mr beanz

Regards,
Giles.


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## snapper_37 (28 Jul 2009)

I was scalped gently this morning 

After a 5 week break I managed to pluck up the insentive to get my arse back in the saddle and commute. I was like a fart.

A bloke who I always overtake, overtook me and gave me a quick couple of headturns so I waved.

At that, he slowed down and asked me if I was ok (bless!). I said I was ok but having a hard time getting back into it. We rode another 4 miles together having a chat, before going separate ways.

Shame I will be back on form by end of week.  

Normally I must confess to liking a decent race but only if I think I stand a good chance.


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## John the Monkey (11 Aug 2009)

Twiggy said:


> So someone who's waiting for a safe moment to overtake you has to deal with you speeding up because you "don't know them"
> 
> Sounds kinda childish to me, well, that and the whole racing thing.


People waiting for a safe moment to overtake shouldn't be inches away from my back wheel - I don't know their level of skill or ability to read the road ahead & anticipate my slowing down or stopping. So yeah, in such a case I try to get rid of them - I've had enough of sliding along the tarmac on my elbows this year.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (11 Aug 2009)

John the Monkey said:


> People waiting for a safe moment to overtake shouldn't be inches away from my back wheel - I don't know their level of skill or ability to read the road ahead & anticipate my slowing down or stopping. So yeah, in such a case I try to get rid of them - *I've had enough of sliding along the tarmac on my elbows this year*.


Tsk tsk, using one's elbows is so last year, Dahling. This year ar$e cheeks are the new elbows.


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## Trevrev (11 Aug 2009)

I just go at my own pace......If someone passes me "So What!"
If someone is slower than me i pass them. The thing that bugs me the most is when you pass someone, who is clearly slower, and they decide to put every ounce of effort in to get back past....Then i just sit on their tail until they flag.........Know your own pace! You'll just end up looking foolish, and more to the point, dying from a heart attack !!!


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## fossyant (11 Aug 2009)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> Tsk tsk, using one's elbows is so last year, Dahling. This year ar$e cheeks are the new elbows.



I removed a massive patch from my ass some years back - it's still on the Cat and Fiddle.......don't think it will take another shave............


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## B-B-BikeyStrike! (11 Aug 2009)

I'm awful. I'm not competitive by nature. Well not much. But I *have* to overtake as many people as I can. But I have a points system:

High end road bikes - 10 points 
mid-range road bikes - 8 points
Single-speeders - 7 points
low-end and hybrids - 5 points
MTB's (HT with slicks) - 5 points
MTBs (with knobblies) - 3 points (but deduct 4 if they overtake me back)
BSO's - 1 point (but I deduct 5 points of they overtake me)

Its childish, but I'm never aggressive over it, so its all good fun. I ride up from the bottom of Old Kent Road every morning on my Cannondale Bad Boy, you know its me. 

Is this a good points system?


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## threefingerjoe (12 Aug 2009)

Well, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only "non-competitive" person out there! I'm not into racing, and view the bicycle as "transportation". If someone wants to pass, fine...especially if they are nice enough to announce, I'll gladly let them by. 

I drive a car or truck the same way. I drive the speed limit, and allow a lot of following distance. Often, people will fly past me, only to join the "wolf pack" up ahead, and hit the brakes. I rarely have to use the brakes on the highway...I just release the throttle, and by the time I get near the slowing wolf pack, they're going, again. 

I've often wondered why someone doesn't do a thesis on this phenomenon. Why is it that when a car starts to pass another car, the car being passed will speed up? Now, 2 cars are speeding, and when they pass a third car, he, in turn, speeds up, etc. etc. Now we have these wolf packs of amateur racers, all jockeying for position, changing lanes, doing a flamenco dance on the pedals, heads spinning around, and arriving at their destination with fazzled nerves, hot brakes, and empty gas tanks. And THAT is if they're lucky! If unlucky, one person will make a mistake, and the highway will be blocked for hours until the wreckage is cleared. 

Maybe, as some have suggested, it's human nature. Does it go back to the days when we had to compete for food, and the person who got there first got the food?


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## asterix (12 Aug 2009)

> I drive a car or truck the same way. I drive the speed limit, and allow a lot of following distance. Often, people will fly past me, only to join the "wolf pack" up ahead, and hit the brakes. I rarely have to use the brakes on the highway...I just release the throttle, and by the time I get near the slowing wolf pack, they're going, again.



Yes, me too. And yet when I cycle commuted I always tried to catch up the guy in front even if they were miles ahead. My excuse was that it was good training and like B-B-BikeyStrike! it wasn't an aggression thing.


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## fossyant (12 Aug 2009)

I just had to batter a quick hybrid this morning twice, only because he kept jumping red lights.


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## Ian Johnson (12 Aug 2009)

I had a run for my money with a guy on a MTB with front suspension and slicks. Caught him up at a junction where he then pulled out before me,I had to pedal hard to catch him again. As I overtook up a slight hill he must have drafted me to the top. The next section was downhill were he stayed close,I could hear him beind on the next hill as his gears where clunking,then when I got to the flat I hammered it for about a mile in the mid 20's mph as I was nearly home. Thinking I had droped him I looked back and he was still about 150metres behind before we went separate ways ,what a fast guy,if he was on a road bike like me I am sure he would have had me lol. Was it you fossyant hehe...all good fun.


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## smeg (12 Aug 2009)

I gave a lycra-clad roadie on a red racing bike a run for his money this morning , overtook him on my touring/hybrid bike although not just for the sake of it he was going slower than I wanted to go (about 19mph I do 25 or more along that stretch of road) I stayed behind him for a while but got bored and overtook him. He caught me up eventually and we laughed about it, he said "you'll have to do better than that" or something (I got the giste anyway ). Took him about 2 miles of road to catch me up though when I had dropped into lower gears going up a slight hill, dunno if that counts as my first roadie scalp, scalped each other I guess? 

Scalped a red light jumping bloke on a knobby-tyred mountain bike too on the way home, he initially gained a lot of ground due to jumping lights but took me no time at all to catch him up and left him for dust, but that was just too easy.


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## fozy tornip (13 Aug 2009)

benborp said:


> I had a guy that I'd passed a short while earlier jump me at lights yesterday.
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBCxCoKxqM8
> ...




That's good footage, as is your other stuff on YouTube. Clear steady image, and birdsong on Ditchling Beacon! 
What camera are you using?


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## benborp (13 Aug 2009)

The camera's a viosport scout attached to a DV500 recorder. Both are obsolete now (after a year or so) but dogcamsport.co.uk supplied them and have lots of other packages.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2009)

Ian Johnson said:


> Was it you fossyant hehe...all good fun.



Noo....I've lowered my SCR (Silly Commuter Racing) rating as I'm now on a fixed road bike instead of a slicked MTB.....so a bit further up the food chain, so can't claim as many points now.....

I had a chap on a full sus MTB (half decent one) sit on me for a couple of hundred yards last night, that was till we hit a hill....bye.... He was pretty quick though, I put about a minute into him on the hill, then whilst waiting in traffic he caught up, then dived down the side and was off. His shaved legs gave him away though.....


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## Neddy (14 Aug 2009)

As I left my driveway this morning, a young roadie cycled past (matching lycra, colour co-ordinated with his road bike, yellow tinted goggles, etc.). I smiled and gave him the cyclists' nod, but rather than reciprocate the greeting, he seemed to take it as a challenge and immediately stood up on his pedals and accelerated away. Under normal circumstances I should have been no match for him - I'm approaching forty and commute on a touring bike - but at the moment my gear shifter is broken, so I have the additional handicap of being stuck on the middle ring (with the aid of a block of wood wedged into the front mech!).
After about a quarter of a mile he eased off and over the next mile I actually caught him up. Apart from checking that I wasn't catching him after his initial spurt, he didn't look over his shoulder once in the entire journey. He probably didn't realise I was right behind him. 
1. At a busy roundabout, he approached in the wrong lane and then track-stood (is that the right terminology?) for a suitable gap in the traffic. I on the other hand slowed down to match the traffic flow, filtered into the correct lane and smoothly flowed round the roundabout with everyone else (by which time I'd caught up with him again).
2. Following behind a bus approaching a stop, he stayed glued to the rear bumper. When the bus stopped, he had no road space to pull out and overtake, so he mounted the pavement and cycled along it to the next dropped kerb. Bearing in mind the bus had just stopped, this meant riding amongst the waiting passengers. Needless to say, I dropped back as we came up to the bus stop, moved out to overtake it and caught up with the roadie again around the other side. 
3. Overtaking another cyclist, he barely flinched from his 'racing line', passing rudely close. Again he didn't even look behind him, despite there being a constant flow of cars going past. I suppose he'd argue that as he wasn't pulling out it didn't matter. I would like to think that I gave the other cyclist plenty of room and I deliberately said a cheery 'good morning' as I went past.
4. At a set of red traffic lights (definitely already on red as we approached), he again mounted the pavement and carried on riding. This then meant that he was on the wrong (ie, pavement) side of the pedestrian barriers and had to cycle 50m or more down a side street to get back onto the road. He then had to do a U-turn into the traffic and come back up to the original junction and turn left. Guess what? By this time the traffic lights had changed to green, I was moving again and I caught up with him.

I'm not saying that my riding technique is perfect, but I have got many years' experience of commuting and would like to think that this proves that you don't have to be in a such a hurry to still be able to travel quickly by bike. Not only was it a case of more haste, less speed, but by riding in this manner he upset motorists, pedestrians and even other cyclists, giving more fuel to the 'cyclists don't deserve to be on the road' brigade.


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## garrilla (14 Aug 2009)

Of course you never see those riders that are both in front AND faster.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (14 Aug 2009)

garrilla said:


> Of course you never see those riders that are both in front AND faster.


I do... everytime I can see my reflection in a window.


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## monnet (14 Aug 2009)

Commuter racing is the bane of my life, I'm rarely caught or overtaken (I'm a roadie that races). I just can't let it go. Whatever I've got in mind training/competition wise it is just so hard not to go for the scalp/ show them I'm just taking it easy. Many a time trial/ chaingang has been ruined by this inability to just let people go past. 

A couple of times I've been turning a reasonable speed and a guy on an MTB has jsut drafted me for a couple of miles. My incredibly mature response? Interval training. Easy,easy, HARD,easy, easy HARD. 

I think the best explanation for all this idiocy is: 1 cyclist=commute, 2 cyclists+=race. And I hate losing (unless they they are E/1/2's, and that's only because it happens so often!)


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## BrumJim (15 Aug 2009)

Chasing busses into town is my favourite game. Where do they fit on the food chain?


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## beanzontoast (15 Aug 2009)

BrumJim said:


> Chasing busses into town is my favourite game. Where do they fit on the food chain?



A bus is surely in a different league, as it depends on the number and duration of stops it makes. I'm not into racing per se (as in my OP) but that doesn't stop me observing the behaviour of buses on my commute. I'm generally similarly paced to most buses going into town, often overtaking them and being overtaken by them a few times during a commute. Most drivers aren't bothered by this, but I get the feeling some think I am trying to race them; there have been the odd occasions where they've driven too close behind in bus lanes after I've overtaken a couple of times - almost pushing me along.

And as for the 'express' buses... I wouldn't want to try keeping up with them as I think my tyres would melt!


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## BrumJim (15 Aug 2009)

An ex-colleague of mine admits rather sheepishly that he used to draft the express coach on the dual carriageway (one junction only) on the way into University of Warwick when he was a student. He _was_ almost a pro-cyclist.

I can match a Travel West Midlands bus along much of the Bristol Road into town, but the Diamond (ex Midland Red) buses are way too fast.


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## Theseus (15 Aug 2009)

BrumJim said:


> I can match a *Travel West Midlands* bus along much of the Bristol Road into town, but the Diamond (ex Midland Red) buses are way too fast.



Have they changed their name? When I was at Brum University a good while ago, the bus company was WMPTE.


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## BrumJim (15 Aug 2009)

When? So was I.
WMPTE then became West Midlands Travel, and then Travel West Midlands. Now they are part of National Express, so will soon become National Express West Midlands (NEWM, presumably).
No.11 buses still hunt in packs, though.


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## Theseus (16 Aug 2009)

BrumJim said:


> When? So was I.



I only managed the first year of the Mech Eng course in '81/2, flunking the end of year exams as a result of too much socializing.



BrumJim said:


> No.11 buses still hunt in packs, though.



Are they the ones that go down the road to the manor house?


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## BrumJim (17 Aug 2009)

Touche said:


> I only managed the first year of the Mech Eng course in '81/2, flunking the end of year exams as a result of too much socializing.
> 
> 
> 
> Are they the ones that go down the road to the manor house?



No - they are the ones that go round and round and round and round, crossing the Bristol Road at Sainsburys. And are full of old people in the winter saving on their fuel bills. Allegedly.


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## Will1985 (20 Aug 2009)

I've just seen this - some locals!! Touche - Manor House closed as a hall of residence in 2007. I've been past it a few times this year but no idea of its current use.

The No 11 is easy to chase - the bus laps 43km in about 2h30...the fastest I've done it is 1:13:21 clockwise (always stopping at reds, but on that PB I was lucky to only have one red on the entire route!). It's usual to pass a couple of them on a lap.


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## Theseus (20 Aug 2009)

Will1985 said:


> Manor House closed as a hall of residence in 2007. I've been past it a few times this year but no idea of its current use.



Shame, I have fond memories of it as a hall. The atmosphere was almost like a family one.


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## CamR (22 Aug 2009)

On my way home tonight I took a different route and headed along the road that runs along the South side of the River Tyne, in South Shields. As I approached the town I noticed that the North Sea Ferry "King of Scandinavia" was leaving her berth and heading towards the Sea. 

That was it... The race was on .............. and I won !!!!

How many points do I get for overtaking the ferry and beating her to the mouth of the River Tyne 

Cam


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## Twiggy (23 Aug 2009)

Jake said:


> oh come on, its all a bit of harmless fun to help you on your journey, a bit of competition. IF youve got a road bike, you want to "ride" it sometimes, otherwise whats the point of owning one.



It amuses me no end to effortlessly pass teens on mountain bikes, who are huffing and puffing and standing on the peddles like they've lost their saddles. 

It's even better downhill, watching them peddle like mad trying to catch up whilst I relax for a moment.


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