# Tubeless



## Flyboy (7 Feb 2017)

Is tubeless really worth the hassle and exspence , my mate had a flat at the weekend , we could not sort it out so a tube was fitted . What's the point.


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## Cubist (7 Feb 2017)

Touch wood I haven't had a trailside flat since going tubeless. When cleaning one of my bikes I saw that the rear tyre had literally scores of healed cuts and nicks, with evidence that they had been punctured, then the sealant had done its work. That's scores of times I haven't had to stop and repair. 

My lad once hit a square edge and pinchflatted. We had to tube that one as the cuts were too big to repair themselves at the rate we could pump air into the tyre. 

I'll take the weight saving and increased grip through lower pressures any day.


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## mjr (7 Feb 2017)

That might be scores of times where a sealant tube or more stab resistant tyre wouldn't have flatted either, though.

How much weight saving and what pressures, real world?


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## HarryTheDog (7 Feb 2017)

I started running tubeless last year, my intial experience was that it was a complete waste of time, my specialized traction control tyres seemed to sweat sealant all the time and the valves took a while to stop leaking around the seal. despite putting loads of sealant in they would just go down overnight all the time.. Then my front burped air in a race and I was ready to give up. However I suspected the bike fatory installed rim tape was not the best and re-did the wheels myself. 7 months on and a lot of miles on the bike, no burps no punctures on or off-road, tyres seem to fly along. Also when I bought some spare wheels and put specialised Storm control on the front conti mud king on the back, the specialized sweated sealant again ( just appears through the sidewalls, very wierd) the conti behaved itself straight away. A lot of other people I speak to say you have to ride on tubelss for a while to bed them in properly.
This weekend went for a ride with a group, a guy with tubes had a thorn puncture, a guy running tubeless, had not used his wheels for months and his tyres just leaked air all over the palce and he had to re-add sealant and blow them up with gas. Most people in the club run tubeless but agree they do need work, ie you need to go for a few rides on them before they are reliable, replace the sealant ever so often and if you do not use them for a while blow them up hard the night before you want to use them to ensure they are leak free, but nearly all agree the difference in speed and grip is worth it. ( quite a few XC racers in the club)


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

No,no point at all.
IMO they could mask a potentially dangerous cut in the tyre without people realising it,and it goes unnoticed.
You could also have a tyre like a pin cushion getting filled with sealant time after time.Again not good.
Ironic that people who run tubeless carry a tube "when all else fails "


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## Motozulu (7 Feb 2017)

I'd take tubeless over tubed anytime - definite gains in speed through weight and pressure. The obvious one being the lack of flats too. Last tyre I took off I stopped counting at 20 thorns that were sticking through the tyre into where the tube would have been - that's 20 less trail side swearing, sweating and cussing sessions.

Absolute no brainer.

Having said that - I cannot for the life of me convert my fat bike into tubeless, which has more gains than a normal mtb, apparently, so I'm having to ride tubed on that - just riding along dreading the inevitable flat is bad enough on it's own.


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## Motozulu (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> No,no point at all.
> IMO they could mask a potentially dangerous cut in the tyre without people realising it,and it goes unnoticed.
> You could also have a tyre like a pin cushion getting filled with sealant time after time.Again not good.
> Ironic that people who run tubeless carry a tube "when all else fails "



You're entitled to your opinion, but what a very silly thing to post. Obviously, all of the riders that swear by it, haven't been killed yet and will never go back to tubed, are wrong then. I'm betting you've never done it and are just anti - as the comments above couldn't be more misinformed and ignorant.
Not having a go at you - but have you tried running tubeless?


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

Motozulu said:


> You're entitled to your opinion, but what a very silly thing to post. Obviously, all of the riders that swear by it, haven't been killed yet and will never go back to tubed, are wrong then. I'm betting you've never done it and are just anti - as the comments above couldn't be more misinformed and ignorant.
> Not having a go at you - but have you tried running tubeless?


Yes I have .
And in no way was it beneficial.
You are within your rights to try the latest fads,I know I have .
Fortunately I haven't been sucked in by unnecessary "add ons" that seem to have crept in over the years.And you can count dropper posts into the equation.
Something tells me that I have been MTBing longer than you(25 years) ,but I'm guessing of course.
I'm not misinformed or ignorant,just been there and wore the t shirt in regards to a lot of things being brought out over a quarter of a century.
Let the doubters commence


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Yes I have .
> And in no way was it beneficial.
> You are within your rights to try the latest fads,I know I have .
> Fortunately I haven't been sucked in by unnecessary "add ons" that seem to have crept in over the years.And you can count dropper posts into the equation.
> ...



Only 25 years, a mere newbie, I like the benefits of tubeless over tubes.


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Only 25 years, a mere newbie, I like the benefits of tubeless over tubes.


Fair do's ,how long ? 
I know I'm in the minority but we will agree to disagree eh ?
It's my opinion and respect it or not it won't change,I do try these things out before I give opinion btw.
And don't get me started on mudguards on MTB's


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

I would guess at 30 years, no mudguards on mtb here.


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## lpretro1 (7 Feb 2017)

Have run tubeless for a few years now on mtb - wouldn't go back. I 'burped' a tyre once but a quick blast of air and it popped back no problem


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## Motozulu (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Yes I have .
> And in no way was it beneficial.
> You are within your rights to try the latest fads,I know I have .
> Fortunately I haven't been sucked in by unnecessary "add ons" that seem to have crept in over the years.And you can count dropper posts into the equation.
> ...



I respect that and you are quite correct in that you've been at it way longer than me. Fair enough if you've tried it, we all have to make these calls, as you say - same with dropper ( I don't ride without one of those, either  ).
Rather than falling for fads, as you put it, I'd prefer to say I like to experiment - believe it or not, I'm a natural cynic, which drives this. I like to try stuff myself and then judge if it's just hype or not.

Got to say, tubeless, droppers, 1x10/11..... I am a big fan of, but we all have different ideas on what works or doesn't.

All the best.


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## Venod (7 Feb 2017)

Another long time MTBer who is a tubeless fan, I also run them on the CX bike, the rims will take a road tubeless so that might be the next experiment, never got on with dropper posts, currently trying 1 x 11 need some more miles (and long uphill drags) to decide if I stick with it or not.

I did an MTBO event a couple of years ago, there had been a lot of hedge cutting going on, I passed a lot of people mending punctures, back at ride HQ there was not one person who was running tubeless who had punctured, I had one of my best results that day.


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## 3narf (7 Feb 2017)

I'd like to give it a go but it seems a lot of fiddling about initially.

Just out of interest, why exactly can you run lower pressures without tubes?


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

3narf said:


> I'd like to give it a go but it seems a lot of fiddling about initially.
> 
> Just out of interest, why exactly can you run lower pressures without tubes?



Nothing in there to snakebite.


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## 3narf (7 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Nothing in there to snakebite.



Aah, ok.


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

SheilaH said:


> Blx. Total blx.


Thanks for sharing


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## SheilaH (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Thanks for sharing




Ah you quoted my post just as I was editing to something less incendiary.

Still blx though. You cannot have a cut in a tubeless tyre. The sealant wont seal it. All that happens is the tyre deflates. If anything it is safer than a tubed as you wont get a blowout. On tubed, the inner tube starts to poke out of the cut, gets abraided by the road surface and pops. Instant blow out and cery dangerous.

What you describe as a pinhole tyre is just a worn tyre. Eventually youll notice frequent loses of pressure indicating time for a new tyre. With a tubed tyre you just get more punctures (and more inconvenience)


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

SheilaH said:


> Ah you quoted my post just as I was editing to something less incendiary.
> 
> Still blx though. You cannot have a cut in a tubeless tyre. The sealant wont seal it. All that happens is the tyre deflates. If anything it is safer than a tubed as you wont get a blowout. On tubed, the inner tube starts to poke out of the cut, gets abraided by the road surface and pops. Instant blow out and cery dangerous.
> 
> What you describe as a pinhole tyre is just a worn tyre. Eventually youll notice frequent loses of pressure indicating time for a new tyre. With a tubed tyre you just get more punctures (and more inconvenience)



Me &You.Village Green.Bare Bellies on the lawn .8PM 

I just didn't get on with them on my Crests that's all.
I'm lucky enough not to have had any more than two punctures in my time (touch wood).
I'm in the massive minority I know,but the simplicity of a tube and better feel gets my vote.
Just my opinion mind


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## Venod (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> I'm lucky enough not to have had any more than two punctures in my time


 

Do you mean in all your time cycling ?

That's an amazing statistic.


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

Afnug said:


> Do you mean in all your time cycling ?
> 
> That's an amazing statistic.



Not if he has only been out twice


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

Afnug said:


> Do you mean in all your time cycling ?
> 
> That's an amazing statistic.


In my time MTB'ing yes.
Road cyclists have it bad on the roads,so I think you should convert 
EDIT -Must thave missed your first post,I see you are an MTB'er



screenman said:


> Not if he has only been out twice


Three times if you count today


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

@screenman 
Love the fact that you have 3 decades of biking under your belt.
What bike did you have ? .My old friend (who compteted as a speed skater in Calgary) had a Muddy Fox when they were well respected.Even back then it looked a pretty rugged piece of kit.
By todays standards it would look anorexic.


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> @screenman
> Love the fact that you have 3 decades of biking under your belt.
> What bike did you have ? .My old friend (who compteted as a speed skater in Calgary) had a Muddy Fox when they were well respected.Even back then it looked a pretty rugged piece of kit.
> By todays standards it would look anorexic.



I first raced bikes in 1970, I had ridden for a bit before then with a local club. Cross was my preferred style, so a mtb was a natural progression, first mtb not sure, Raliegh, Muddy Fox, Dawes, I can though remember it having a 21or more inch frame, I now ride a 16 or smaller. The only reason I do not race now is due to arthritis, does not stop me cycling though.


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## MarquisMatsugae (7 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> I first raced bikes in 1970, I had ridden for a bit before then with a local club. Cross was my preferred style, so a mtb was a natural progression, first mtb not sure, Raliegh, Muddy Fox, Dawes, I can though remember it having a 21or more inch frame, I now ride a 16 or smaller. The only reason I do not race now is due to arthritis, does not stop me cycling though.


Yeah it was MTB'ing I was thinking of,but nice one on the long race career.
And well done on still getting out despite yer sore bones


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## Motozulu (7 Feb 2017)

Less chance of a pinch flat.


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## dan_bo (7 Feb 2017)

Tubs.


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

dan_bo said:


> Tubs.



I have pinch flatted too many of those.


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## dan_bo (7 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> I have pinch flatted too many of those.


Won't argue with you but really?


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## Flyboy (7 Feb 2017)

I presume the lower pressures come about , because the tyre is basically clipped to the rim of the wheel so no chance of it rolling off around a berm, but I am only guessing here ,


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

dan_bo said:


> Won't argue with you but really?



Yep! Really, what you need to remember is I started riding, racing when they were really the only option. I remember new one's under the bed. Spreading Embrocation on my leg only to find it was tub cement, we did not have tape back then. 

I also repaired my own, often not very successfully.


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## dan_bo (7 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Yep! Really, what you need to remember is I started riding, racing when they were really the only option. I remember new one's under the bed. Spreading Embrocation on my leg only to find it was tub cement, we did not have tape back then.
> 
> I also repaired my own, often not very successfully.


Tub cement around your pods?! Niiiice.


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

dan_bo said:


> Tub cement around your pods?! Niiiice.[/QUOTe
> 
> All over a hairy shin and nothing to wipe it off with until after I finished the cross race and got home.


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## gelfy666 (7 Feb 2017)

any advice.............. im new to tubeless on my Bird and my rear keeps going flat over the course of a week, i cant see anything causing the leaking, so whats the best way to sort this out?


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## dan_bo (7 Feb 2017)

gelfy666 said:


> any advice.............. im new to tubeless on my Bird and my rear keeps going flat over the course of a week, i cant see anything causing the leaking, so whats the best way to sort this out?



http://www.a-dugast.com/single-post/2016/04/08/Ori-Tubeless-MTB-tubular


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## screenman (7 Feb 2017)

I mix a solution of washing up liquid and water together and spray it on the tyre, this gives away all it's secrets.


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## Pale Rider (8 Feb 2017)

It seems a bodge to me to have to use tape to seal the spoke holes and goo to seal the tyre.

A wheel with internally fixed (hooked?) spokes allows the rim itself to be solid and therefore airtight.

Bicycle tyres have not been designed to be airtight because they don't have to be - the inner tube does that.

I expect some tyres are now designed to be airtight, so properly 'tubeless' rather than 'tubeless ready'.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/product/view/690


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## screenman (8 Feb 2017)

It might seem a bodge, but it works.


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## Pale Rider (8 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> It might seem a bodge, but it works.



The tubeless set-up on car wheels looks better to me, which I reckon is the direction it may be heading on bicycles.

A mostly conservative bike industry and bike buying public means such developments take a long time.

But I reckon within a few years someone will produce a 'dry' tubeless bicycle wheel and tyre.


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## screenman (8 Feb 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> The tubeless set-up on car wheels looks better to me, which I reckon is the direction it may be heading on bicycles.
> 
> A mostly conservative bike industry and bike buying public means such developments take a long time.
> 
> But I reckon within a few years someone will produce a 'dry' tubeless bicycle wheel and tyre.



I think they might already be out there, but adding slime or whatever gives you added security.


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## screenman (8 Feb 2017)

Quick Google brings up UST.


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## 3narf (8 Feb 2017)

I won't use those slime tubes; I fitted one once and it let go as soon as I inflated it. The disgusting green stuff was everywhere


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## Pale Rider (8 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Quick Google brings up UST.



UST appears to be mostly about a solid rim bed - like the Crank Brothers wheel - and doesn't seem to have caught on since most of the links I've seen are several years old.

I suspect more development is required of tyres to make a reliable dry set-up.

The sealant may play a part in sealing the current tyres around the rim, as well as making the carcass airtight.


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## Flyboy (8 Feb 2017)

Another question on this subject, if you have fluid in your tyre , is there ever a chance that at low or high speed , it would gather in one place and give you a sort of giro effect like you have an egg in your tyre. Or am I just stupid


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## Venod (8 Feb 2017)

UST is a well known tubeless system but you need the special rims and the tyres tend to be heavier and less supple, tubeless ready tyres are probably designed to be airtight, I have run tubeless with normal rims and split 24" tubes as the sealing strip (known as Ghetto Setup) but special tubeless ready rims make the job easier, I use Stans tubeless rims and tape and manage to fit them with a track pump easily, I run non tubeless tyres (Vittoria XN pro) tubless on the CX and they have been fine.

The riders I know who run UST also add Stans fluid as an aid to puncture repair, but they could run them dry.


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## Motozulu (8 Feb 2017)

I'm a tinkerer, me  so even though my rims on the fatty are non tubeless ready - and even though the Surly Nate and Larry tyres are so slack on the rims you can pull them off with your fingers - I was determined to go tubeless. The benefits to being tubeless on a fat bike are even greater (do you want to be knelt in the rain, trail side, wrestling a great huge tyre on and off?).
So today I managed it (after 2 failed attempts).
Using a mix of the fattystrippers gear (excellent kit) and a bit of ghetto method chucked in, they went up first time and 5 hours on haven't lost any pressure at all and no signs of leaking Stans fluid. I did a walk through on another forum I use - hope it helps!

http://www.mtb-uk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=373&p=3491#p3491


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## Flyboy (8 Feb 2017)

My fat bike is tubeless ready , the tyres are a nightmare to get off,how did you manage to get that amount of air volume in quick enough to seal the tyre .


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## Flyboy (8 Feb 2017)

Just looked at your old post


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## fossyant (8 Feb 2017)

I've not tried it yet. I can see the benefit but it sounds very messy. Happy with tubes TBH !


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## Flyboy (8 Feb 2017)

Motozulu said:


> I'm a tinkerer, me  so even though my rims on the fatty are non tubeless ready - and even though the Surly Nate and Larry tyres are so slack on the rims you can pull them off with your fingers - I was determined to go tubeless. The benefits to being tubeless on a fat bike are even greater (do you want to be knelt in the rain, trail side, wrestling a great huge tyre on and off?).
> So today I managed it (after 2 failed attempts).
> Using a mix of the fattystrippers gear (excellent kit) and a bit of ghetto method chucked in, they went up first time and 5 hours on haven't lost any pressure at all and no signs of leaking Stans fluid. I did a walk through on another forum I use - hope it helps!
> 
> http://www.mtb-uk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=373&p=3491#p3491


I have just had a look at your other post and job well done , my fatty is actually tubeless ready wheels and tyres . Might even give that a go . Or LBS as they have a proper compressor


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## Motozulu (8 Feb 2017)

Yes, my mates pop bottle compressor  was a life saver - wouldn't go up with a track pump. I would recommend the fattystrippers stuff if you have TL ready rims - that should work fine. My issue was non TL rims and tyres - I could literally get my fingers between rim and tyre when deflated. The foam building up the bed gives something for the air to work against. Just checked - pressures still rock solid.


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## Motozulu (8 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> I've not tried it yet. I can see the benefit but it sounds very messy. Happy with tubes TBH !



I made it look and sound harder than it was - it was actually a cinch - I just wanted to do a thorough walk through.


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## fossyant (8 Feb 2017)

Huge benefits for lower pressure if you are doing DH, but general XC like me, not so sure - higher pressure for low rolling resistance. If I start picking up thorns lots, I might switch.

30 PSI is where I run, but if tubeless you can run lots lower.


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## Flyboy (8 Feb 2017)

My tyres and wheels are tubeless ready so prob a no brainier really but they are 4.7 so could take some sealing quickly


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## mjr (9 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Nothing in there to snakebite.


That about tubeless, but this about tubulars:


screenman said:


> I have pinch flatted too many of those.


I would expect it's still possible to snakebite a tubeless but less likely because tyre sidewalls are usually thicker than inner tubes...are they thicker than tubulars? I've not much experience of them... plus most tubeless systems have sealant in, so you might not notice minor pinch flats. I'd still be a bit worried about denting rims if I went much lower than with tubes, though. Am I missing something because I don't ride MTB much? (Holidays and deep freezes, really.)



Flyboy said:


> Another question on this subject, if you have fluid in your tyre , is there ever a chance that at low or high speed , it would gather in one place and give you a sort of giro effect like you have an egg in your tyre. Or am I just stupid


I think I've read there's a slight imbalance at very very low speeds but it's only really noticeable if you spin the tyres with the bike on a stand and not after the first few pedal revs in real use... and I expect most tubeless sealant is much thinner than what's in Slime tubes.


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## screenman (9 Feb 2017)

"That about tubeless, but this about tubulars:"

You got me there mjr, I thought this topic was about tubeless. I might of course be reading you wrong.


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## screenman (9 Feb 2017)

"I would expect it's still possible to snakebite a tubeless but less likely because tyre sidewalls are usually thicker than inner tubes...are they thicker than tubulars? I've not much experience of them... plus most tubeless systems have sealant in, so you might not notice minor pinch flats. I'd still be a bit worried about denting rims if I went much lower than with tubes, though. Am I missing something because I don't ride MTB much? (Holidays and deep freezes, really.)"

Most of the tubulars I have ever owned have quite thin side walls.


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> Huge benefits for lower pressure if you are doing DH, but general XC like me, not so sure - higher pressure for low rolling resistance. If I start picking up thorns lots, I might switch.
> 
> 30 PSI is where I run, but if tubeless you can run lots lower.



Tubeless tyres roll well even at low pressures and are perfect for xc. Sounds conterintuitive i know. 
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes

Well worth the time to set up. Which isn't long once you have your head round it. Lighter wheels that spin up easier, less resistance and offer more traction. All for a little initial faff

I have run tubeless for about 2 and a bit years. Standard giant rims with rim tape and some stans valves/sealant. Had multiple punctures and none have stopped me apart from a very heavy landing at Degla which snapped the chords inside the sidewall and forced it to rip. Wiped the sealant out, stuck a tube in and got back on it again. 

I wouldn't go back to tubes now.


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## Nigeyy (15 Feb 2017)

I don't use tubeless, but I'm intrigued to try them -perhaps on my next bike if they come standard. I hesitate because I can't justify spending extra money on something that I can't -at the moment -see how it will offer an advantage commensurate with the investment required.

I should add I'm an xcer who runs higher pressures and rarely has p*&nctures. I carry a spare inner tube so I just zip in a new inner tube quickly after I've checked for anything that was causing the puncture -and to be honest, I can't actually remember the last time I had to do that on the trail.....

But I'll never say never; and I will say that everyone who tries them seems to like them, which is why I'm intrigued. I'm also in the camp of not being bothered about fat bikes (having an fs) but again, everyone seems to like them -I think you have to keep an open mind but also with an eye on your wallet!


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## marzjennings (15 Feb 2017)

fossyant said:


> I've not tried it yet. I can see the benefit but it sounds very messy. Happy with tubes TBH !



No mess with tubeless ready rim and tyres. The tyre goes on dry, I add the required amount of notubes, pump and go. There is a trick though to finding a tyre that works with your rims as some are a pain to initially inflate. 

I've been running tubeless for about 5 years and won't go back to tubed for the main reason of I just don't get as many punctures with tubeless. I rode over something the other day that put a hole in the tyre, I heard pssst for about a second and then nothing. Tyre was sealed and I rode on for another 20 miles.


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

Nigeyy said:


> I hesitate because I can't justify spending extra money on something that I can't -at the moment -see how it will offer an advantage commensurate with the investment requured



Depending what tyres you run it can be set up for as little as 30 quid.


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## fossyant (15 Feb 2017)

What do you do when changing tyres. Let pressure out of the valve with a cloth on it to collect the sealant. I assume the sealed remains on the tyre and bot the rim. Do you need to clean the rim ?


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## Nigeyy (15 Feb 2017)

But that is 30 quid more than I need to spend on a problem I don't have. I think I will wait until the cost is integrated into a bike purchase. I would definitely like to try them though!



Jody said:


> Depending what tyres you run it can be set up for as little as 30 quid.


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

I run as near to a do it all tyres setup as I can, which is why I picked Nobby Nics. Sealant after two years without removing the tyre has turned into a latex glove on the tyre side but still liquid residue on the rim side. Quick wipe with a cloth and they are ready for another tyre. Or in the case of the blowout at degla it was drag the tyre on the grass  I have topped the sealant up twice in that time.

You can let pressure out of the valve without a cloth. Never had it leak past the valve yet.


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## MarquisMatsugae (15 Feb 2017)

Jody said:


> Depending what tyres you run it can be set up for as little as 30 quid.


True.
The Geax tyres are pennies and those are TNT ready.
Which I run tubed


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

Nigeyy said:


> But that is 30 quid more than I need to spend on a problem I don't have. I think I will wait until the cost is integrated into a bike purchase. I would definitely like to try them though!



If its not for you then don't do it. There are plenty of advantages to it but does have some draw backs. Tubes have drawbacks also so the decision is yours. Even if its integrated into a new bike you still need sealant to top up which is the majority of cost when converting. Rim tape and valves cost about £10-15


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## MarquisMatsugae (15 Feb 2017)

Jody said:


> If its not for you then don't do it. There are plenty of advantages to it but does have some draw backs. Tubes have drawbacks also so the decision is yours. Even if its integrated into a new bike you still need sealant to top up which is the majority of cost when converting. Rim tape and valves cost about £10-15



I take no pleasure in pointing out that people who run tubeless have to rely on tubes at some point.



Well ok,I do


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## fossyant (15 Feb 2017)

Jody said:


> I run as near to a do it all tyres setup as I can, which is why I picked Nobby Nics. Sealant after two years without removing the tyre has turned into a latex glove on the tyre side but still liquid residue on the rim side. Quick wipe with a cloth and they are ready for another tyre. Or in the case of the blowout at degla it was drag the tyre on the grass  I have topped the sealant up twice in that time.
> 
> You can let pressure out of the valve without a cloth. Never had it leak past the valve yet.



I've got nobby nics on my FS Pro and been happy with them. I know some MTBERS don't like them but they are quite lightweight and not a DH tyre. I've found them good.

I'll probably go tubeless on the next bike.


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

@fossyant The only reason I am moving away from Nics is their ability to let go with no warning in flat corners. Apart from that they have served me well


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## Nigeyy (15 Feb 2017)

Oooh, never thought of that..... Still, given the positive feedback, the next mtb may well have them, worth a punt I'd say -and I'm assuming the worst case scenario is if I don't like them (which seems unlikely) I can always put a tube in!

FWIW, I can't help but wonder if this thread -and myself for that matter -falls into the category of "well, with my friction shifters I can still change gear, I don't need any new fangled index shifting....", or "rim brakes stop me fine, why would I want disc brakes?" sort of thing. I put great stock in the fact that I read most people who use tubeless are very happy with them -which definitely makes me want to try them.



Jody said:


> If its not for you then don't do it. There are plenty of advantages to it but does have some draw backs. Tubes have drawbacks also so the decision is yours. Even if its integrated into a new bike you still need sealant to top up which is the majority of cost when converting. Rim tape and valves cost about £10-15


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> I take no pleasure in pointing out that people who run tubeless have to rely on tubes at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> Well ok,I do



lol. People who rely on tubes have to rely on tubes and patches even more  10-15 minutes stood around in the freezing cold sorting punctures or pinch flat is worth every bit of tubeless to me. Lets say 20ish punctures at 10 minutes each is worth 3 and bit hours of my life. That's not a dig at you BTW.


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## screenman (15 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> I take no pleasure in pointing out that people who run tubeless have to rely on tubes at some point.
> 
> Not as often as those that run tubes though from my experience.
> 
> ...


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## MarquisMatsugae (15 Feb 2017)

Jody said:


> lol. People who rely on tubes have to rely on tubes and patches even more  10-15 minutes stood around in the freezing cold sorting punctures or pinch flat is worth every bit of tubeless to me. Lets say 20ish punctures at 10 minutes each is worth 3 and bit hours of my life. That's not a dig at you BTW.




Twice in 25 years 

(Sigh) 
Tubes ?
Tubeless ?
Debate.
Till the cows come home.


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## MarquisMatsugae (15 Feb 2017)

See above.


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## screenman (15 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Twice in 25 years
> 
> (Sigh)
> Tubes ?
> ...




Yeh but, you never go out on your bike.

Joking aside we both speak from personal experience.


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## Jody (15 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Twice in 25 years



Where do you ride? The velodrome


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## MarquisMatsugae (15 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> Yeh but, you never go out on your bike.
> 
> Joking aside we both speak from personal experience.


Of course.
You could be right though,as I have been out 5 times since Jan 1st so not exactly going hell for leather.


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## screenman (15 Feb 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Of course.
> You could be right though,as I have been out 5 times since Jan 1st so not exactly going hell for leather.



Hope it is not due to illness or injury.


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## Motozulu (17 Feb 2017)

Depends a lot where you ride of course. If you rarely get a flat - why bother? if, like me, you get a bloody puncture every other ride due to living in thorn central - absolute God send.


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## Flyboy (20 Feb 2017)

Right . I have taken the plunge , and had my LB shop convert my fatty to tubeless , I am picking it up tomorrow . I am not riding till Saturday so will up date you then. 
The reason I didn't do it myself was, I needed to be able to inject a vast amount of air at once,and couldn't be bother to make something to do it.


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## Flyboy (21 Feb 2017)

Well LBS rang today , and said the conversion was not successful and the tyres where flat this morning. They need to keep bike for around a week until they can get the correct tape . 
Thinking now, was this really a good idea.


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## MarquisMatsugae (21 Feb 2017)

Flyboy said:


> Well LBS rang today , and said the conversion was not successful and the tyres where flat this morning. They need to keep bike for around a week until they can get the correct tape .
> Thinking now, was this really a good idea.



(Whisper it)




No 



Tubes


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## Motozulu (23 Feb 2017)

I did my fatty myself - I put a link on here. It was an hours job, total success, cost me about 30 quid which will pay for itself in tubes, repair patches and (what price this?) stress free rides and in the summer, bag free rides.

Do you want the walk through I did?

Oh, as I will likely change tyres for the seasons on the Fatty, I've invested in this too. 

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Airshot-Tubeless-Tyre-Inflator_85096.htm


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## Flyboy (23 Feb 2017)

The LBS still has my bike and said it will be ready next week . I am very handy on bikes and most things really, I would have done it myself but did not fancy making a quick blast compressor . But from now on no more LBS for me .


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## Flyboy (23 Feb 2017)

Motozulu said:


> I did my fatty myself - I put a link on here. It was an hours job, total success, cost me about 30 quid which will pay for itself in tubes, repair patches and (what price this?) stress free rides and in the summer, bag free rides.
> 
> Do you want the walk through I did?
> 
> ...


I like the look of that air shot , will it actually inflat 5 inch tyres


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## Crackle (23 Feb 2017)

Several times I've thought about tubeless, normally after another thorn puncture but each time I've examined it and thought about doing it, I've just come to the conclusion that my riding doesn't warrant the potential messing nor the riding I do really warrant it.


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## screenman (23 Feb 2017)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/cycling-tech/tubeless-tyres-tested-destruction


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## Motozulu (24 Feb 2017)

I believe so - one of the reviews said that because it can go up to 160psi in the tank, it will inflate any fat bike tyre. I only needed 100 psi for my 4" Nates.
If you do get one - by signing up to Tredz newsletter you get a fiver off code and also by going through Topcashback - it brings it down to around 40 quid. 


Flyboy said:


> I like the look of that air shot , will it actually inflat 5 inch tyres


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## Jody (24 Feb 2017)

screenman said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/cycling-tech/tubeless-tyres-tested-destruction



Stamping on a glass bottle. What could possibly go wrong


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## Flyboy (5 Mar 2017)

First ride tubeless today , to be honest I never really noticed any difference while riding at all. 
2 to 3 inches of snow at Llandegla made it more fun , it was a real good ride today.


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## smutchin (5 Mar 2017)

Flyboy said:


> I presume the lower pressures come about , because the tyre is basically clipped to the rim of the wheel so no chance of it rolling off around a berm, but I am only guessing here ,



A berm?!?!?!!


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## Flyboy (5 Mar 2017)

I take it your a roadie , Smutchin


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## smutchin (5 Mar 2017)

Flyboy said:


> I take it your a roadie , Smutchin



Yes, but I've been following this thread with interest because I'm thinking of going tubeless on the road. Lots of food for thought. 

Haven't heard the word 'berm' since I was a youthful BMXer!


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## Flyboy (6 Mar 2017)

When my tyres where converted , the sealant actually filled up all my old (thorn) holes , and I could see where they and even count them. If going tubless actually stops these flats it's a no brainier.


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## Flyboy (12 Apr 2017)

Up date on Tubless , I don't feel any faster or slower , I can drop pressure down to under 4 PSI no problem at all . The ride I did Saturday I would have had 3 punctures ( bit unlucky as that's not the norm) , so it's fair to say for general riding I would say go Tubless.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2017)

Jody said:


> Stamping on a glass bottle. What could possibly go wrong


Or holding a bottle in your hand and trying to smash it against a hard surface, with potential bonus points for getting shards of glass in your eyes? 



smutchin said:


> Yes, but I've been following this thread with interest because I'm thinking of going tubeless on the road.


@Sea of vapours swears by the tubeless tyres on his road bike. His arguments convince me - if I ever buy a new 'best bike' then I will go tubeless on that.


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## Sea of vapours (12 Apr 2017)

You don't need a new 'best bike', Colin, you just need new wheels, with or without a new bike to go with them  And yes, I'm unequivocally pleased that I switched to tubeless and would most certainly not go back to tubes.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2017)

Sea of vapours said:


> You don't need a new 'best bike', Colin, you just need new wheels, with or without a new bike to go with them  And yes, I'm unequivocally pleased that I switched to tubeless and would most certainly not go back to tubes.


True, but I bought a nice pair of non-tubeless Campagnolo Neutron wheels for my Cannondale (current best bike) not too long ago. I am not going to buy _more_ new wheels for _that_ bike unless I damage those or when I eventually wear them out.

Also - I'd like disk brakes so that would mean buying a new bike. It will have to wait until I can afford one.


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## Sea of vapours (12 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Also - I'd like disk brakes so that would mean buying a new bike. It will have to wait until I can afford one.


You've convinced me with that. I'd forgotten that you'd only recently bought those new wheels.


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## ColinJ (12 Apr 2017)

Sea of vapours said:


> You've convinced me with that. I'd forgotten that you'd only recently bought those new wheels.


TBH - I bought them and only then remembered our conversation about tubeless. Never mind, they are very nice wheels. It gives me another excuse/reason to eventually buy another bike!


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## iandg (24 Apr 2017)

Interesting thread - just read through the whole thing. Did the Dirty User9609 last week end on WTB Nanos at 3 bar. I flatted once (in the first 5 miles) which knocked my confidence in the tyres/tubes early on. Put some more pressure in the rear at the first feed (up to 4 bars) but that just made the bike uncomfortable. There definitely were a lot of tubes being changed along the route and I'm now seriously considering giving tubeless a try.


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## Flyboy (25 Apr 2017)

I did a ride over formby sand hills the other week, When I got back the car , I had 3 wet patches where the fluid had sealed a puncture , tubeless saved me 3 stops of at least 20 min each , as my fat bike tyres are horrendous to get off.


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