# Move Wider for Rider-Boot stickers



## CXRAndy (9 Mar 2019)

Thoughts?

I saw a similar road sign in Australia last year and thought they were a great idea. Also on the back of buses was 1.5m minimum pass law.

The image is work in progress so will change in colour, size, phrase etc. But I think it conveys the message perfectly. Most of us drive cars as well. The idea to get the message out there more prominently. I for one think close pass is by far the most common car, cycle incident. 

I positioned the car totally in the other lane, because that is what best practice you should do.




If every cyclist put one of these types stickers on their cars, it would be mass safety publication.

I will hopefully get these priced up in the sticky vinyl 

Its a PDF format


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

Why reinvent the wheel, why not just copy the one on the back of the lorry?


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## Bonefish Blues (9 Mar 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Why reinvent the wheel, why not just copy the one on the back of the lorry?


Agree - the Oz image is stronger


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## Drago (9 Mar 2019)

I got a "stay wider of the rider" sticker on my car, albeit much, much smaller.


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## CXRAndy (9 Mar 2019)

Drago said:


> I got a "stay wider of the rider" sticker on my car, albeit much, much smaller.



Was it UK supplied?


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## Drago (9 Mar 2019)

Yes indeedy, some London cycling campaign I stumbled across online.


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

https://staywider.org/ Shame it's got Larndun on it, but maybe that could be cut off

Edit:- Although they are Free you can't get them unless you make a donation lol, which is fair enough as they have to pay postage, but that's not what they are advertising


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## CXRAndy (9 Mar 2019)

I thought the PDF image conveyed the message more clearly, because humans cant measure gaps, so by placing the car where its supposed to be overtaking a cyclist, completely across the other side of the line. The message is clearer


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I thought the PDF image conveyed the message more clearly, because humans cant measure gaps, so by placing the car where its supposed to be overtaking a cyclist, completely across the other side of the line. The message is clearer


But it may not be necessary to move over to the other lane to give the 1.5M, I always do when I can, but on some roads a straddle is all that is needed. Not trying to piss on your parade, but the Australian one & the Lardun one convey the message better as I see it. Maybe redo yours in the yellow & back to see if that has the effect?


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## alicat (9 Mar 2019)

Great idea, @CXRAndy. I would love one for my car or the back of a hi-viz vest. 

I prefer the black and yellow theme - it's more eye-catching. Also the 'sharing saves lives' message of the Oz campaign.


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## Drago (9 Mar 2019)

I didn't make a donation for mine.


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## CXRAndy (9 Mar 2019)

alicat said:


> Great idea, @CXRAndy. I would love one for my car or the back of a hi-viz vest.
> 
> I prefer the black and yellow theme - it's more eye-catching. Also the 'sharing saves lives' message of the Oz campaign.



I'll continue to improve the graphics and colour scheme. Yellow with black would be my preferred option. 

@Phaeton I agree it may not be possible but the set best practise as far over the better, a clear centre marker line conveys that. Thanks for your input though


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## Bonefish Blues (9 Mar 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I thought the PDF image conveyed the message more clearly, because humans cant measure gaps, so by placing the car where its supposed to be overtaking a cyclist, completely across the other side of the line. The message is clearer


_Message _may be, but the point I was making is that the _image _isn't.


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

@CXRAndy I'm not trying to dissuade you, I think it's a great idea & when it comes to your printing run will probably have several off you, but the message/image does need to be right.


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2019)

Following on from/Inspired by the Australian one...





I've had the "Give Cyclists Room" enlarged to three foot, then used two cycling through Manchester.

If the one in the pdf were printed, what'd be the cost, and how big an uptake?


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Mar 2019)

I don't get where the 1.5m thing has come from. It's not realistic on many roads, and no motorist is going to sit behind a cyclist riding @12mph for miles just because they've only got 3 feet of clearance. A bit of realism & common sense is required here. How close is safe depends on how fast the vehicle which is passing you is going. I'm not bothered about 2ft passes at low urban traffic speeds, it's the ones doing 40 or 50 mph on main roads which create wind turbulence that cause the problem.


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't get where the 1.5m thing has come from. It's not realistic on many roads, and no motorist is going to sit behind a cyclist riding @12mph for miles just because they've only got 3 feet of clearance. A bit of realism & common sense is required here. How close is safe depends on how fast the vehicle which is passing you is going. I'm not bothered about 2ft passes at low urban traffic speeds, it's the ones doing 40 or 50 mph on main roads which create wind turbulence that cause the problem.


Couldn't agree more, it came from Oz I think where the roads are mooosive so easy to give 1.5M but some still didn't. There was a thread on here a while ago where I argued in vain that it wasn't feasible in the UK, it would be nice, but not feasible, what about a car coming towards you, on some of the roads I ride you can't get 1.5M clearance even if I rode in the gutter, but as long as they slow down I have no issue.


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Couldn't agree more, it came from Oz I think where the roads are mooosive so easy to give 1.5M but some still didn't. There was a thread on here a while ago where I argued in vain that it wasn't feasible in the UK, it would be nice, but not feasible, what about a car coming towards you, on some of the roads I ride you can't get 1.5M clearance even if I rode in the gutter, but as long as they slow down I have no issue.


Thing is, if you were in a car whilst being passed, the vehicle passing would have to move away from the edge of the road just to pass. Or even wait until there was room to pass. 

On a bicycle on the road, you're place is in the gutter. Therefore you don't matter.


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## hobo (9 Mar 2019)

It's a new law that came into force last year in Australia.


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## hobo (9 Mar 2019)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BhAB&usg=AOvVaw0yZHIbR1oomryYCE4rETC3&ampcf=1


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

classic33 said:


> Thing is, if you were in a car whilst being passed, the vehicle passing would have to move away from the edge of the road just to pass. Or even wait until there was room to pass.
> 
> On a bicycle on the road, you're place is in the gutter. Therefore you don't matter.


Yes I fully understand that, but also how will cycle lanes work?


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## mjr (9 Mar 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Yes I fully understand that, but also how will cycle lanes work?


Cycle lanes should be 2-3m wide, so aren't a problem for this.


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## mjr (9 Mar 2019)

classic33 said:


> Following on from/Inspired by the Australian one...
> View attachment 456587
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure which one you mean, but I hate the "share the road" ever since having a motorist bawling at me to "share the road" because I dared take primary/control position in "his" lane on the approach to a crossing island.


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## mjr (9 Mar 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't get where the 1.5m thing has come from. It's not realistic on many roads, and no motorist is going to sit behind a cyclist riding @12mph for miles just because they've only got 3 feet of clearance. A bit of realism & common sense is required here. How close is safe depends on how fast the vehicle which is passing you is going. I'm not bothered about 2ft passes at low urban traffic speeds, it's the ones doing 40 or 50 mph on main roads which create wind turbulence that cause the problem.


You say realism, I say defeatism. Let's ask for 5ft and we might get 2 or 3. If we ask for 2ft, we'll only get 6 inches, yet again, while the driver and the following one swear blind it was 2ft.

And yes, on small roads, they'll have to sit behind awhile. Not for miles. Just until there's a safe passing place.


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

mjr said:


> Cycle lanes should be 2-3m wide, so aren't a problem for this.


They maybe where you are, but in Sheffield they aren't much more than a metre wide, certainly no more than 1.5M


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...4!1sZ-wZdeqB1UCD6-ouEnU4LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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## mjr (9 Mar 2019)

Phaeton said:


> They maybe where you are, but in Sheffield they aren't much more than a metre wide, certainly no more than 1.5M
> 
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...4!1sZ-wZdeqB1UCD6-ouEnU4LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656



Then Sheffield needs fixing. This campaign is fine.


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

mjr said:


> This campaign is fine.


The campaign is fine, it's the implementation that is unrealistic


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## mjr (9 Mar 2019)

Phaeton said:


> The campaign is fine, it's the implementation that is unrealistic


Why? Are you against drivers having to wait for a safe gap to overtake cyclists, regardless of what nonsense some incompetent councils paint on roads?


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## Phaeton (9 Mar 2019)

You're not interested in what I think & you're thread hi-jacking so I'll not answer


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## LeetleGreyCells (9 Mar 2019)

I believe in Ireland the distances between bike and overtaking car is promoted to leave 1 metre on <40mph roads and 1.5 metres on >40mph roads. 

There is an interesting programme on Irish TV channel RTE1 called 'Now You See Me' about increasing cycling infrastructure, provision, safety and increasing active travel across all demographics in Ireland, which is where I got the above from (if I'm remembering correctly, apologies if not).


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2019)

LeetleGreyCells said:


> I believe in Ireland the distances between bike and overtaking car is promoted to leave 1 metre on <40mph roads and 1.5 metres on >40mph roads.
> 
> There is an interesting programme on Irish TV channel RTE1 called 'Now You See Me' about increasing cycling infrastructure, provision, safety and increasing active travel across all demographics in Ireland, which is where I got the above from (if I'm remembering correctly, apologies if not).


One man started it, with support from County Councils willing to support the idea.

http://www.safecyclingireland.org/stayin-alive-at-1-5/


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## debrastorr (22 Mar 2019)

mjr said:


> You say realism, I say defeatism. Let's ask for 5ft and we might get 2 or 3. If we ask for 2ft, we'll only get 6 inches, yet again, while the driver and the following one swear blind it was 2ft.
> 
> And yes, on small roads, they'll have to sit behind awhile. Not for miles. Just until there's a safe passing place.



The 1.5m has been widely accepted including by UK police forces. Let's not us double guess it. And if drivers have to wait to pull out round a cyclist, well, that's what I was taught to do when I started to drive well over 30 years ago. And my current experience is that, unless you start as a gutter hugger, it exactly what nearly every vehicle will do.


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