# Why no drugs scandals this year?



## Globalti (22 Jul 2009)

What's going on? Has the Omerta finally got control of the testing laboratories? Is everybody using the same Swiss doctor? Has every cyclist read The Death of Marco Pantani and understood the importance of that 50% haematocrit level? Or has the cycling world got together and agreed that all drugs stories must be supressed for the good of the sport?

Because I'm as sure as hell that the riders haven't stopped taking the drugs.


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## ChrisKH (22 Jul 2009)

That's the Tour de France equivalent of the p*n&t*r£ fairy. Now you've said it the shoot is going to hit the fan.


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## gaz (22 Jul 2009)

i follow lance on twitter, and he looks like he is getting tested left right and center


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## Sysagent (22 Jul 2009)

Biological Passport...

This thing has given the Pro-riders in effect a "ceiling" to which they have to constantly maintain their crit levels to (50% and lower), so all they are doing now is micro-dosing with their currently undetectable EPO, doing the usual autologous blood transfusions and whatever else they can get away with.


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## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

The UCI are also running the testing this year as opposed to the independent organisation ASO used last year. The UCI have a far more cosy relationship with the riders and teams.


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## stumpy (22 Jul 2009)

Maybe they have all decided to be good boy's this year and not take any?????


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## pjm (22 Jul 2009)

One for the conspiracy theorists: clearly Lance has been the biggest financial draw for the event since 2000 and has popularised cycling in the US etc, and so the organisers want the tour to have credibility when he is riding it. Not trying to start an 'is lance on drugs' thread, but perhaps a blind eye is turned to other riders' indiscretions to avoid a farce like 2006. It does seem a remarkable coincidence: before Lance's winning streak was the 1998 Festina affair and afterwards the 2006 Operacion Puerto tour, and then loads of drug scandals in 2007 and 2008; and now Lance is back, nothing again!


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## yello (22 Jul 2009)

Testing takes longer? More samples taken? Dunno, but keep in mind that we've had 'retropsective' positives so maybe the testing may go on for some time after the tour.


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## Haitch (22 Jul 2009)

G NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEW


Di Luca caught using EPO.


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## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

Alan H said:


> G NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEW
> 
> 
> Di Luca caught using EPO.



Who would have predicted that

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/di-luca-positive-for-cera-in-giro


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## Bigtwin (22 Jul 2009)

Because they are all on it? Mention testing and there is a lot of staring at the ground and shuffling of cleats.


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## Crompton (22 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> Who would have predicted that
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/di-luca-positive-for-cera-in-giro




I have suspended him for two years from my Fantasy Giro team.


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## simon_brooke (22 Jul 2009)

ChrisKH said:


> That's the Tour de France equivalent of the p*n&t*r£ fairy. Now you've said it the shoot is going to hit the fan.



Dead right. According to the Eurosport commentators, Emanuele Sella and Daniello Di Luca, today.


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## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Sella was caught after last year's Giro, not this year... That was obvious because he dominated the mountains day after day, a bit like Schumacher's breaks in the Tour.

If Di Luca tested positive, then surely Menchov was on something too? Di Luca was suffering on some of those climbs while Menchov never looked like he was being troubled.


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## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

Will1985 said:


> Sella was caught after last year's Giro, not this year... That was obvious because he dominated the mountains day after day, a bit like Schumacher's breaks in the Tour.
> 
> If Di Luca tested positive, then surely Menchov was on something too? Di Luca was suffering on some of those climbs while Menchov never looked like he was being troubled.



Isn't he already under investigation?


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## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Wasn't the Menchov blood bank issue raised before the end of the Giro?


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## Chuffy (22 Jul 2009)

I've been wondering this too. The whole 50% haematocrit level was a fairly arbitrary ceiling imposed in the late 90s and yes, it gave teams a ceiling to work to. Effectively it sanctioned use of EPO. Avoiding a +tive was easy, just plug yourself into a saline drip for 20 minutes before a test and you were clear. The passport should make that impossible because it tracks blood values across long periods of time. 

My measure of how clean the Tour has been is the fact that Wiggy is (and I haven't seen todays stage, so don't correct me!) in third. I realise that I'm setting myself up for a massive fall , but even grumpy cynics like me have to have faith in something...


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## Flying_Monkey (25 Jul 2009)

Well, this one may not be over for a few months yet - retrospective testing to come for new drugs and probably more significantly, new masking agents.


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## maurice (25 Jul 2009)

lol, I love that mention of the UCI official spending an hour having Coffee with the Astana guys before testing the team.


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## Steve Austin (25 Jul 2009)

When someone like Contador beats a true world class timetrialer like cancellara then the next day climbs like a mountain goat, its got make you wonder what on earth is going on.

I would like to believe that folk are riding clean, but i'm having trouble..


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## Chuffy (25 Jul 2009)

User76 said:


> Or maybe he is as doped as the others? Oh no I forgot, he lost some weight didn't he?


You need to read the sentence after the one you highlighted more carefully...


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## Noodley (25 Jul 2009)

There is nothing I have seen which would make me say anything other than I believe in Wiggins.



As an aside I have just finished reading "Heroes, Villains and Velodromes - Chris Hoy and Britain's Track Cycling Revolution" and Dave Brailsford is fairly open about doping and states there were 3 or 4 British road riders who who didn't get selected "because we know what you're doing" ....their response? "Oh, alright then". The 3 or 4 riders are stated to be road riders with continental professional teams....their names have never been disclosed. But I bet it would be interesting to see who are the 'missing' Brits from Team Sky


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## Chuffy (26 Jul 2009)

Noodley said:


> There is nothing I have seen which would make me say anything other than I believe in Wiggins.
> 
> 
> 
> As an aside I have just finished reading "Heroes, Villains and Velodromes - Chris Hoy and Britain's Track Cycling Revolution" and Dave Brailsford is fairly open about doping and states there were 3 or 4 British road riders who who didn't get selected "because we know what you're doing" ....their response? "Oh, alright then". The 3 or 4 riders are stated to be road riders with continental professional teams....their names have never been disclosed. But I bet it would be interesting to see who are the 'missing' Brits from Team Sky


Interesting. Selected for what precisely? And there's no guarantee that Team Sky will be all Brit or that all Brit riders will be good enough for it, so I don't think you can use that as a test...


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## dellzeqq (27 Jul 2009)

Steve Austin said:


> When someone like Contador beats a true world class timetrialer like cancellara then the next day climbs like a mountain goat, its got make you wonder what on earth is going on.
> 
> I would like to believe that folk are riding clean, but i'm having trouble..


absobloodylutely.


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## Chuffy (27 Jul 2009)

Latest from AFLD is that there may well be two new products in use plus the good old autologous blood transfusion. Interesting times ahead and anyone who thinks that the likes of Lemond, Kimmage et al should shut up needs to have a long hard think about those rosy-tinted specs they're wearing.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2009)

The teams are so blase about this that they are chucking the packets out with the trash too, according to the AFLD. No doubt the UCI didn't think of looking there...


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## Globalti (28 Jul 2009)

In all the interviews with Wiggins I noticed that the subject of drugs in the Tour was carefully avoided. My belief (having read the Pantani book, a couple of others and now reading Kimmage) is that they are all doing it but the Omerta effect is alive and kicking and is doing its job. Too many professionals who make a living in various ways from the sport of cycling have realised that cycling doesn't need another scandal, especially when it is growing as a sport and a very lucrative one for the media and the suppliers of bikes, equipment etc.


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## CotterPin (28 Jul 2009)

Rigid Raider said:


> In all the interviews with Wiggins *I noticed that the subject of drugs in the Tour was carefully avoided*. My belief (having read the Pantani book, a couple of others and now reading Kimmage) is that they are all doing it but the Omerta effect is alive and kicking and is doing its job. Too many professionals who make a living in various ways from the sport of cycling have realised that cycling doesn't need another scandal, especially when it is growing as a sport and a very lucrative one for the media and the suppliers of bikes, equipment etc.



I am sure I have heard Wiggins bring up the subject himself - something along the lines of "I know people will think I am doping but that is a problem with the sport right now." His attitude was in direct contrast to Contador's "next question" remarks. You can see where the Omerta really lies.


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2009)

CotterPin said:


> I am sure I have heard Wiggins bring up the subject himself - something along the lines of "I know people will think I am doping but that is a problem with the sport right now." His attitude was in direct contrast to Contador's "next question" remarks. You can see where the Omerta really lies.


I heard that too. Wiggy knows the score.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2009)

The whole Garmin team are actually going to have their monitoring results put online. I like this kind of transparency.


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## Kirstie (28 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The whole Garmin team are actually going to have their monitoring results put online. I like this kind of transparency.



After all, if they have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear...


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## Chuffy (28 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The whole Garmin team are actually going to have their monitoring results put online. I like this kind of transparency.


It is good, I agree and I wish more teams were as willing. Garmin are the team that I have the most faith in. However, as a layman I'm acutely aware that the data will mean very little to me and there is always the possibility that the new stuff hinted at by AFLD won't show up, unless you know what you're looking for. I'm not being cynical about Garmin, I'm just wary about being too dewy-eyed about this kind of stuff...


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## fossyant (28 Jul 2009)

Well, Garmin all the way - I'm still not happy with a certain Mr Millar, but he has at least sorted that out, but 8-10kg's from a whippet...to go that good looks like where it is...don't knock the GB training - seems the best in the world - we just need to adapt.... go Wiggo....

I am really not sure there have been drugs this year..come on..it's been a total washout the last few tours...dunno...maybe it has sunk in.....


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## maurice (28 Jul 2009)

It's practically an industry in Italy, if there are products out there they'll be onto it.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2009)

Kirstie said:


> After all, if they have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear...



You're a very funny woman, you know that?


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## Kirstie (29 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You're a very funny woman, you know that?



Funny ha ha or funny weird?


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Jul 2009)

Kirstie said:


> Funny ha ha or funny weird?



<Brooklyn accent> The kinda funny that ends up wearing concrete boots for walking on the bottom of the Hudson River...</Brooklyn accent>


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2009)

Get a room!


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## Kirstie (29 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> <Brooklyn accent> The kinda funny that ends up wearing concrete boots for walking on the bottom of the Hudson River...</Brooklyn accent>



<huskier brooklyn accent> talk like that and you'll be sleepin' with the fishes </huskier brooklyn accent>


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2009)

Oh good grief, just shag and get it over with! 

I am, of course, assuming that you haven't already done that...


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## Kirstie (29 Jul 2009)

Chuffy said:


> Oh good grief, just shag and get it over with!
> 
> I am, of course, assuming that you haven't already done that...



No, we haven't, and no, we're not going to either!


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2009)

Kirstie said:


> No, we haven't, and no, we're not going to either!


Oh thank god, I thought that I was going to have to go shopping for some Propofol to help me sleep through the nightmares.


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## Kirstie (29 Jul 2009)

Chuffy said:


> Oh thank god, I thought that I was going to have to go shopping for some Propofol to help me sleep through the nightmares.



Blimey. Never knew you cared!


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## Chuffy (29 Jul 2009)

Kirstie said:


> Blimey. Never knew you cared!


I have an active imagination.


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## Flying_Monkey (30 Jul 2009)

Chuffy said:


> I have an active imagination.



We've all (unfortunately) seen the pictures... dammit, do you ever think other people don't get nightmares? And what about the little kiddies? eh?


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## Chuffy (30 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> We've all (unfortunately) seen the pictures... dammit, do you ever think other people don't get nightmares? And what about the little kiddies? eh?


Little kiddies have to learn about the world somehow...


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## Globalti (30 Jul 2009)

Back to professional cycling... did anybody see this interview where Kimmage asks Lance an awkward question? (Admittedly he was a little insensitive in his choice of words.)


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7fV-48DT3E


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## Sysagent (30 Jul 2009)

AICAR or GW1516, with the usual two or three Autologous blood transfusions would have been the norm this year for the peloton... Oh and not forgetting the microdosing of EPO...

;-)


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## harryhead (1 Aug 2009)

Because their busy watching porn!!!


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## NickM (4 Aug 2009)

Rigid Raider said:


> Back to professional cycling... did anybody see this interview where Kimmage asks Lance an awkward question? (Admittedly he was a little insensitive in his choice of words.)
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7fV-48DT3E



Have seen it now... and it only took me 1:50 to be convinced that, doper or not, Armstrong is the complete, all-round peanut


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## Medic6666 (12 Aug 2009)

lol I watched that and thought that Kimmage was the peanut. Its nice to see a reporter get some back.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Aug 2009)

Back to the OP...

One of the spin-offs from the Kohl investigation is that we know his coach was paying East European and Swiss labs to make sure what he could get away with in terms of micro-dosing EPO and testosterone... so that's probably what many are up to.


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## Chuffy (15 Aug 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Back to the OP...
> 
> One of the spin-offs from the Kohl investigation is that we know his coach was paying East European and Swiss labs to make sure what he could get away with in terms of micro-dosing EPO and testosterone... so that's probably what many are up to.


But who cares what Kohl says? It's all lies, according to McQuaid...."I would not put a lot of faith in what he [Kohl] says. It is always guys who get caught and thrown out who start reflecting a little bit, preparing a book, and they come out with anything. Unless we have proof, we can not go and do anything," McQuaid told gathered reporters. "


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## Chuffy (15 Aug 2009)

How can I put this, politely?

F*CK OFF MCQUAID YOU TEAM SUCKING TW*T.

Yes, I think that sums it up adequately...


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Aug 2009)

McQuaid is the worst enemy of cycling... and he's supposedly in charge of it. Very sad.


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## Chuffy (15 Aug 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> McQuaid is the worst enemy of cycling... and he's supposedly in charge of it. Very sad.


Like I said...


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## Blue (15 Aug 2009)

NickM said:


> Have seen it now... and it only took me 1:50 to be convinced that, doper or not, Armstrong is the complete, all-round peanut



After seeing that excert I am convinced you don't know the meaning of the term "peanut" as it couldn't possibly be applied to the response by LA.

The reporter is obviously the only one deserving of criticism.

Mr A was within his rights to be a lot more vociferous.


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## akaAndrew (15 Aug 2009)

probably... whatever... anyway BACK to the OP

Kohl is singing like a canary that's for sure. Difficult to understand his motivation if he's making it all up as it's 'spitting in the soup' big time. I guess my question is now not that it happens but how widespread it is. If someone like Kohl was doing it then it suggests, to me at least, that it's not going to be rare.


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## rich p (15 Aug 2009)

akaAndrew said:


> probably... whatever... anyway BACK to the OP
> 
> Kohl is singing like a canary that's for sure. Difficult to understand his motivation if he's making it all up as it's 'spitting in the soup' big time. I guess my question is now not that it happens but how widespread it is. If someone like Kohl was doing it then it suggests, to me at least, that it's not going to be rare.



Possibly so but it was the sudden surge in Kohl's performance that was the alert. If a rider's performance changes dramatically then the smell of fish becomes strong which is why Wiggins has admitted that his new form will raise eyebrows.


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Aug 2009)

True, but that's for the ones who get caught. The point of what Kohl has revealed now is that there is a whole network of dodgy labs who are paid to keep riders looking 'normal' but giving them an ongoing advantage that cannot usually be detected with the current doping controls.


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## repairtec (13 Oct 2009)

French NEWS has just announced today that the goverment has authorised the police to start investigations into doping during this years TDF following finds of large quantities of bin bags containing syringes etc. Two teams are at the top of the list one of which is Astana, presumably the delay is due to the time the labs need to perform the analysis, I don't think they'd make an announcement like that unless something big was going to be announced......


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## rich p (13 Oct 2009)

repairtec said:


> French NEWS has just announced today that the goverment has authorised the police to start investigations into doping during this years TDF following finds of large quantities of bin bags containing syringes etc. Two teams are at the top of the list one of which is Astana, presumably the delay is due to the time the labs need to perform the analysis, I don't think they'd make an announcement like that unless something big was going to be announced......



There's another thread nearby discussing this where I point out that M Bodry made a big announcement about the 2008 re-tests which came back -ve.


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## Chuffy (13 Oct 2009)

rich p said:


> There's another thread nearby discussing this where I point out that M Bodry made a big announcement about the 2008 re-tests which came back -ve.


Yup. I do wish that they'd keep it quiet unless they do have something to announce. Although in the spirit of being fair, open and transparent I guess they don't have much choice.


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