# Stem Length



## Hacienda71 (4 Nov 2014)

Can anyone enlighten me as to the benefits of short versus long stem length on a mtb? 
I have a 2004 Stumpjumper Fsr Expert acquired from a mate who has upgraded. The stem length on it is 120mm with 6 degrees of lift. Whilst I can ride it comfortably I do feel quite pitched forward on descents. This may be due to me being technically not that sound, but I do wonder if a shorter stem would help.


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## fossyant (4 Nov 2014)

No expert here. I'm pitched forward on my old MTB but it was set up close to the road bike. Less stem reduces twitchy handling. I'm just crap at technical descents


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## Cubist (4 Nov 2014)

A better combination if its twitchy on descents would be wider bars and shorter stem. A wider bar gives you more options to get hunched over the bars to get weight over the front on corners, and get your weight more over the centre of gravity. That stumpy has a steepish front end by modern standards, and will feel a bit lairy facing downwards. Shortening the stem will increase steering input required, so a wider bar will give you more leverage. 120 is very long indeed, but I'm not sure you would necessarily benefit by from an ultra short stem. On One do a superb CNC stem for just under 20 quid, and my suggestion would be to try a 70 or 80 mm married to a pair of their unbelievably cheap El Guo Ancho bars. You can get something like a 760 and cut it down a bit if it's too wide.
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HBELGUANB/el-guapo-ancho-b-handlebar

A bit of rise with that geometry wouldn't come amiss either. If you were feeling flush they do their awesome Knuckleball carbon bars for less than 40 quid.


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## dan_bo (4 Nov 2014)

Just ride your bike.


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## Hacienda71 (4 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Just ride your bike.


Gotta keep up with the boy!


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## dan_bo (5 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Gotta keep up with the boy!



I know. Dem kids get fast dont they. 

Might have a 100mm job in the back of the shed if you want it.


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## Cubist (5 Nov 2014)

And I've got a 710 or. 750 bar you can use if you want to experiment, and a 70mm stem.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2014)

Cubist said:


> A better combination if its twitchy on descents would be wider bars and shorter stem. A wider bar gives you more options to get hunched over the bars to get weight over the front on corners, and get your weight more over the centre of gravity. That stumpy has a steepish front end by modern standards, and will feel a bit lairy facing downwards. Shortening the stem will increase steering input required, so a wider bar will give you more leverage. 120 is very long indeed, but I'm not sure you would necessarily benefit by from an ultra short stem. On One do a superb CNC stem for just under 20 quid, and my suggestion would be to try a 70 or 80 mm married to a pair of their unbelievably cheap El Guo Ancho bars. You can get something like a 760 and cut it down a bit if it's too wide.
> http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HBELGUANB/el-guapo-ancho-b-handlebar
> 
> A bit of rise with that geometry wouldn't come amiss either. If you were feeling flush they do their awesome Knuckleball carbon bars for less than 40 quid.


^This. Everything you need to know is in that post.


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## Hacienda71 (5 Nov 2014)

Thanks for the kind offers @dan_bo and @Cubist ,most appreciated. Dan if you are up for a blast around Clayton Vale in the next couple of weeks I may take you up on the offer as a starting point for fiddling with the setup. I am not sure of my bar width but will check it later. They are certainly wider than the ones on my son's Giant but riding road bikes most of the time mean that I have no idea if they are wide or narrow.


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## dan_bo (5 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Thanks for the kind offers @dan_bo and @Cubist ,most appreciated. Dan if you are up for a blast around Clayton Vale in the next couple of weeks I may take you up on the offer as a starting point for fiddling with the setup. I am not sure of my bar width but will check it later. They are certainly wider than the ones on my son's Giant but riding road bikes most of the time mean that I have no idea if they are wide or narrow.


Nice one. Do you have a set of lights?


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## Hacienda71 (5 Nov 2014)

I've got a solarstorm u2 x2 and a u2 x3. Have never ridden in t dark on single track though.


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## I like Skol (5 Nov 2014)

Be careful when messing with this geometry thing! I replaced a 130mm stem with a 110mm stem when rebuilding my Zaskar as I thought the fashion for shorter stems might actually have some substance to it. I'm not convinced it was a good move in handling terms but do sometimes think the cockpit is a bit cramped now. My (unknowledgeable and unscientific) theory for this is that the current bikes with next to no stem length must be correspondingly longer in the top tube dept? This means a bike designed for a long stem will be crap with a short one and vice-versa.

On the other hand, if you have a free, loan stem to experiment with then go for it. I am kicking myself as the 130mm version of my stem is no longer available and all the alternatives are considerably more expensive


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Nov 2014)

would that I was so sensitive and perceptive, and my senses so scientifically calibrated, that a change of 20mm in a stem, especially when the resulting replacement stem is still a long one, would make such a noticeable difference.

Makes me glad to be an insensate and unperceptive luddite


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## Cubist (5 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> Be careful when messing with this geometry thing! I replaced a 130mm stem with a 110mm stem when rebuilding my Zaskar as I thought the fashion for shorter stems might actually have some substance to it. I'm not convinced it was a good move in handling terms but do sometimes think the cockpit is a bit cramped now. My (unknowledgeable and unscientific) theory for this is that the current bikes with next to no stem length must be correspondingly longer in the top tube dept? This means a bike designed for a long stem will be crap with a short one and vice-versa.
> 
> On the other hand, if you have a free, loan stem to experiment with then go for it. I am kicking myself as the 130mm version of my stem is no longer available and all the alternatives are considerably more expensive


Which is why wider bars were my suggestion.Did you put wider bars on? Shorten the stem with narrow bars and you simply make steering more difficult. 

@Hacienda71 You are welcome to come over and try any number of different combinations of stem and bar widths, it's only an hour or so from leafy Cheshire, and there are some good little spots for you to try the combinations out. I have 710, 720, 740, 750 and 780mm bars, plus 50, 60 and 70mm stems to go at.


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## Jody (5 Nov 2014)

Cubist said:


> I have 710, 720, 740, 750 and 780mm bars, plus 50, 60 and 70mm stems to go at.





Just been looking at the On One stems and they look like decent kit. Light and hopefully strong. Might have a punt on a 50mm and see if it livens the steering up.


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## Hacienda71 (5 Nov 2014)

Cubist said:


> Which is why wider bars were my suggestion.Did you put wider bars on? Shorten the stem with narrow bars and you simply make steering more difficult.
> 
> @Hacienda71 You are welcome to come over and try any number of different combinations of stem and bar widths, it's only an hour or so from leafy Cheshire, and there are some good little spots for you to try the combinations out. I have 710, 720, 740, 750 and 780mm bars, plus 50, 60 and 70mm stems to go at.


Thanks Cubist I may take you up on it. Will give Dan's slightly shorter stem a go first then take it from there. Haven't had a chance to check my existing bar width yet.


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## fossyant (5 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> I've got a solarstorm u2 x2 and a u2 x3. Have never ridden in t dark on single track though.



Give us a shout if going. Then again my MTB has guards on but will take Clayton as it is


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## dan_bo (5 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> I've got a solarstorm u2 x2 and a u2 x3. Have never ridden in t dark on single track though.


Its a hoot. Bring fossy.


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## Hacienda71 (5 Nov 2014)

The Vale in the dark forum ride. Sounds like a plan.


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## Cubist (5 Nov 2014)

Jody said:


> Just been looking at the On One stems and they look like decent kit. Light and hopefully strong. Might have a punt on a 50mm and see if it livens the steering up.



Yep, my HT has 720 Answer carbons on, Cubester's AM susser has 740 Funn Full Ons, Cubette's XC bike has 710 Funn, Fat Boys, my Ibis has 780mm Knuckleballs and I've got a spare 750mm FatBoy knocking around the workbench. 

As for stems, well, we'd be pulling them off the bikes anyway. Quality wise, my favourite stem is the Superstar Zenith, which is CNCd loveliness for not a lot of money, but the On Ones CNC are identical, clearly out of the same factory, and cost about half the price. A mate of mine has one and the only difference is the logo and faceplate.


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## Cubist (5 Nov 2014)

Loving the sound of a Claytone Vale night ride.


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## Hacienda71 (6 Nov 2014)

Cubist said:


> Loving the sound of a Claytone Vale night ride.


Lets get it sorted then guys. @dan_bo @fossyant and Cubist any preferred dates and realistic times and should we post a seperate thread see if there is general interest?


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## dan_bo (6 Nov 2014)

Weekdays' good for the next two weeks.....


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## Hacienda71 (6 Nov 2014)

OK Mondays and Thursdays aren't good for me but other than that most evenings are possible.


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## e-rider (6 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Can anyone enlighten me as to the benefits of short versus long stem length on a mtb?
> I have a 2004 Stumpjumper Fsr Expert acquired from a mate who has upgraded. The stem length on it is 120mm with 6 degrees of lift. Whilst I can ride it comfortably I do feel quite pitched forward on descents. This may be due to me being technically not that sound, but I do wonder if a shorter stem would help.


ride with 1cm less than what the 'experts' say!


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## I like Skol (14 Nov 2014)

OK, I've bought my eye-stinger and tried it out on the MTB at night. When are we doing this stem test run?


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## Hacienda71 (14 Nov 2014)

Will have to see if @dan_bo has picked up some parrafin for his bike lights.  Next Tuesday might be a possible, will need to check with swmbo.


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## Cubist (14 Nov 2014)

Tentatively still on.....


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## dan_bo (14 Nov 2014)

What time we talking?

Should be good either way as it goes.


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## Hacienda71 (14 Nov 2014)

I've got to get over from Macc via Wilmslow so 7ish, or is that too late?


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## dan_bo (14 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> I've got to get over from Macc via Wilmslow so 7ish, or is that too late?


7s good for me.


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## Hacienda71 (14 Nov 2014)

Cool.  Just checked the Mrs has given me clearance.


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## Cubist (14 Nov 2014)

Sounds good.


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## I like Skol (15 Nov 2014)

Weather looks like it should be reasonable and I can't see this being a problem with Mrs Skol


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## dan_bo (15 Nov 2014)

Is @fossyant having it?


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## fossyant (15 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Is @fossyant having it?



Been booked out with stuff each night next week. School stuff, stuff for mum in law... pah where is getting mucky.


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## fossyant (15 Nov 2014)

Pants...................


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## dan_bo (15 Nov 2014)

fossyant said:


> Pants...................



Trousers indeed. Still, its a long winter....


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## fossyant (15 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Trousers indeed. Still, its a long winter....



Missus has a class booked !! Poo.


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## I like Skol (15 Nov 2014)

fossyant said:


> Missus has a class booked !! Poo.


We don't need him Dan, He'd only slow us down


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## dan_bo (15 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> We don't need him Dan, He'd only slow us down


Are you driving or riding skolly?I was thinking mebbe meet up in daisy nook car park 6.45 and jib along the backs.


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## fossyant (15 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> We don't need him Dan, He'd only slow us down



I will.........would ?


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## I like Skol (15 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Are you driving or riding skolly?I was thinking mebbe meet up in daisy nook car park 6.45 and jib along the backs.


I reckon on riding there but will have to scoff me tea down sharpish with the brood before setting off so a meet at Daisy Nook should be ok. We can then whizz across Littlemoss and past the Bay Horse and meet......... where? Outside Evans Cycles?


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## dan_bo (15 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> I reckon on riding there but will have to scoff me tea down sharpish with the brood before setting off so a meet at Daisy Nook should be ok. We can then whizz across Littlemoss and past the Bay Horse and meet......... where? Outside Evans Cycles?



I was thinking outside the little caff opposite the bay. Newton heath end.


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## I like Skol (15 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> I was thinking outside the little caff opposite the bay. Newton heath end.


I was just wondering about parking space for the others and is it well lit for Hacienda to swap his stem over (you haven't forgotten this have you, it's the reason for the get together )

**note to self, bring a few spare spacers just in case**


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## dan_bo (15 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> I was just wondering about parking space for the others and is it well lit for Hacienda to swap his stem over (you haven't forgotten this have you, it's the reason for the get together )
> 
> **note to self, bring a few spare spacers just in case**


Oh aye @Hacienda71 what size bars are you running?


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## Hacienda71 (15 Nov 2014)

I assume they are os. 
I was gonna park in the Velodrome carpark then go in by the skills park. I have only been in that way before and the parking seems secure.


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## I like Skol (16 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Dan if you are up for a blast around Clayton Vale in the next couple of weeks I may take you up on the offer


The plan 


Cubist said:


> Which is why wider bars were my suggestion.Did you put wider bars on?


Oh yeah. Went a bit wider, not massively though as I am a bit old school 


Hacienda71 said:


> Lets get it sorted then guys. @dan_bo @fossyant and Cubist any preferred dates and realistic times and should we post a seperate thread see if there is general interest?


God damn Hacienda! I did notice you didn't ping me in this post even though I would be the obvious choice. Do I smell bad or something?

Let's get this nailed down shall we, 7pm at Evan's by the Velodrome onTue 18th. All those in favour say I. (I'll see you shortly before Dan )


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## Hacienda71 (16 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> The plan
> 
> Oh yeah. Went a bit wider, not massively though as I am a bit old school
> 
> ...


Thought you might kick off with @Cubist about bar width 
I 7pm at Evans it is. 
@potsy could come along with his CX bike. Give him a chance to try out his new lights.


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## dan_bo (17 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Thought you might kick off with @Cubist about bar width
> I 7pm at Evans it is.
> @potsy could come along with his CX bike. Give him a chance to try out his new lights.




Chris the only stem i can find is a non-oversize job (85mm Xlite thing) Sorry about that. Ill bring it with anyroad. I could have sworn i had an OS job.


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## Hacienda71 (17 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Chris the only stem i can find is a non-oversize job (85mm Xlite thing) Sorry about that. Ill bring it with anyroad. I could have sworn i had an OS job.


No problem still fancy a blast round Clayton Vale in the dark. My lumens normally just light up boring tarmac...


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## dan_bo (17 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> No problem still fancy a blast round Clayton Vale in the dark. My lumens normally just light up boring tarmac...




Any excuse eh. See ya tomorrow.


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## I like Skol (17 Nov 2014)

dan_bo said:


> Any excuse eh. See ya tomorrow.


Are we meeting 6.30 at Daisy Nook? If the cabin's open I'll have a mint choc chip Cornetto please


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## dan_bo (17 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> Are we meeting 6.30 at Daisy Nook? If the cabin's open I'll have a mint choc chip Cornetto please



6.30. Cornetto in hand.or at least it'll look like a cornetto in the dark.


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## Cubist (17 Nov 2014)

I'll bring some proper width bars and a non tiller length stem........


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## Hacienda71 (17 Nov 2014)

Cool see everyone tomorrow at 7:00


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## I like Skol (18 Nov 2014)

Bike is clean (well, I pointed a hose at it), lights charged, tyre pressures checked and chain oiled. I'm as ready as I'm going to be. Should we book an ambulance in advance or just hope they are not busy when we want one?


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## fossyant (18 Nov 2014)

The black run in the dark dhould be fun. Enjoy you lot.


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## dan_bo (18 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> Bike is clean (well, I pointed a hose at it), lights charged, tyre pressures checked and chain oiled. I'm as ready as I'm going to be. Should we book an ambulance in advance or just hope they are not busy when we want one?




They'll just drive straight past. it's north manchester remember.


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## potsy (18 Nov 2014)

Look forward to seeing the pics and reports of skolly's showing off


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## Hacienda71 (18 Nov 2014)

Blue looks like black at night on the way markers.


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## Cubist (18 Nov 2014)

Mrs Cube says the M62 is at a standstill. I'll set off via Rochdale/ Oldham over the tops at about 6, tyres pumped, lights attached. ......... I'll bring a 70 mm stem and a couple of bars. I've got some lock-on grips so we can swap about if you like.


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## Hacienda71 (18 Nov 2014)

Just checked bars are not OS so Dans stem may be a good starting point!


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## dan_bo (18 Nov 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Just checked bars are not OS so Dans stem may be a good starting point!



Righto!


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## dan_bo (18 Nov 2014)

Good excuse for a ride that. Nice one lads.


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## I like Skol (18 Nov 2014)

What Dan meant to say is "What a fantastic ride, It is so much more exciting in the dark. Every feature of the trail is changed and more dangerous, just the way I like it." 

Here are the fantastic four 





We will definitely have to do it again, and bring @potsy along next time.

EDIT: By the way guys, I like the way you kept sending me ahead to check for trip wires and stuff....


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## Hacienda71 (18 Nov 2014)

Enjoyed that. Good ride and good company. Cheers for the loan of stems and bars Dan and Cubist. Will try some small changes and see what suits. 
Must say enjoyed night riding, will have to do it more in the future.


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## Pale Rider (18 Nov 2014)

I like Skol said:


> What Dan meant to say is "What a fantastic ride, It is so much more exciting in the dark. Every feature of the trail is changed and more dangerous, just the way I like it."
> 
> Here are the fantastic four
> View attachment 62078
> ...



You look like miners about to descend to the coalface.


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## Cubist (18 Nov 2014)

Yep, top ride! thanks fellas.


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## Cubist (18 Nov 2014)

Dan looked like he'd already been down. I assume the towpath was blashy on the way?


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## dan_bo (18 Nov 2014)

Cubist said:


> Dan looked like he'd already been down. I assume the towpath was blashy on the way?


Daisy nook is a swamp at this time of year....


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## I like Skol (18 Nov 2014)

I'll tell you what lads, sometimes I call that camera of mine but to be fair it does take a good picture more often than not


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## Jody (19 Nov 2014)

Shame I live a bit too far away. Looks like it was a good night out.

Just want to give a quick shout to @Cubist for a couple of his recommendations A 50mm CNC stem from On One. Quality bit of kit for very few pennies and its also very light. Also bought 4 sets of Kevlar pads when they were on offer at Superstar. Great feel to them and they don't feel as gritty as sintered. 

Just hoping the stem makes the bike feel like I want it to.


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## Hacienda71 (19 Nov 2014)

Having had a quick go on Cubists bike last night the shorter stem wider bar setup makes a big difference on handling. It turns on a six pence. Not sure how it will feel over steps etc but I will be trying various options out over the coming weeks.


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