# Twist and go ebike for someone with limited mobility?



## The Brewer (14 Mar 2021)

Hello, long time no post 
Due to health issues and general life crap, the Mrs and I want to get out for short rides. Problem is Mrs has fibromyalgia and turning peddles to assist her ride is a no no. Maybe we should be looking at mobility scooters, but to quote her " Not in this lifetime".
She used to have a very heavy twist and go bike, but looking for something as light as possible, cheap and foldable. I know twist and go have legal issues, but theoretically could you, easily, buy a peddle assist and convert to a twist and go......Sorry if I'm over stepping rules here

Cheers
Sean


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Mar 2021)

Nope.


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## HMS_Dave (14 Mar 2021)

It would be much easier to convert an already existing bike to a twist and go using an aftermarket ebike kit as the generally come with them with more open software. In terms of legality I believe they are legal but only upto 6mph or kph I can't remember exactly.... The idea is to assist you with walking with the bike and not to ride on it.


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## ebikeerwidnes (14 Mar 2021)

Probably not relevant but 'twist and go' were legal before 2016 - any bike originally made before then is still legal under the old regs - i.e. twist and go throttle allowed but max power is 200w rather than 250W
so potentially you might find and old one - but that has its own problems!!!

I do know that some LBS's will attach a throttle to some ebikes - as long as you promise that you are only going to use it on private land.
I did read somewhere that there may be a loophole for people with genuine mobility issues - after all it would be rather difficult to define the exact crossing point between a mobility scooter and an ebike
You might try looking around for some mobilty scootery type things that are a bit more exciting - that might help

and bear in mind - legal ebike motors (at least here in the UK) are not powerful enough to get you up a hill without the rider pedalling - and pedalling with some effort in most case - so you need to work out whether this is acceptable??

I search for 'ebikes for disabled' and it came up with a few things - including this
https://www.vanraam.com/en-gb/advice-inspiration/news/bike-for-disabled-people
you could always try ringing them??


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## Drago (14 Mar 2021)

It needs to cut put at 3.7 mph to be legal, the idea being that it gives a little solo assistance just to get moving, and no more. Above that it can only operate on a legal bike while the pedals are being assisted.

It's not easy to add to an existing bike. Most brands of e driver controller are deliberately designed to be bloody difficult to play with to prevent people illegally modifiying them.

The other issue is one of battery capacity. Ebikes are designed to assist, not provide the sole means of grunt, and people don't appreciate that batteries won't last very long at all when suddenly asked to provide 3 or 4 times the effort. Finding an illegal high power kit from a foreign manufacturer is physically the easist means of achieving this.

I do have great sympathy with your plight - Mrs D walks with a stick or is wheelchair bound, depending on the day, so can no longer ride either - but illegally modifying ebikes only serves to hasten the day where all us legal ebikers will be punished for it by having to have livence, insurance, etc.


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## CXRAndy (14 Mar 2021)

There are aftermarket kits which have a thumb throttle, so if you're practical, have a threaded bottom bracket bike, you can convert it to an ebike. If your lady ha mobility issues, Id suggest Bafang BBS02 kit


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2021)

A pedal sensor only motor will activate just by turning the pedals - known as glass pedalling or cranking.

However, you will still have the problem of a legal motor on its own being unable to get the rider up much of a hill.

Bafang is a reasonable make, and they do offer some illegal in the UK higher power motors which would probably do the job.

You could easily flatten an average sized battery in under 10 miles which you may, or may not, find acceptable.


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## welsh dragon (15 Mar 2021)

I thought they had been made illegal in the UK. Mine has a twist throttle but I never use it and my bike is 5 years old this year so was made before the new rules.


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## numbnuts (15 Mar 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Probably not relevant but 'twist and go' were legal before 2016 - *any bike originally made before then is still legal under the old regs - i.e. twist and go throttle allowed but max power is 200w rather than 250W*
> so potentially you might find and old one - but that has its own problems!!!


Crap


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2021)

numbnuts said:


> Crap



Known as 'grandfather rights'.

So it is true to say that any twist and go bike which was legal at the time remains legal for as long as it lasts.


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## welsh dragon (15 Mar 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Known as 'grandfather rights'.
> 
> So it is true to say that any twist and go bike which was legal at the time remains legal for as long as it lasts.




That was my understanding as well.


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> That was my understanding as well.



You could maybe try your throttle to see if the motor will get you up a hill.

I've boldly asserted a legal motor won't, but it might for a much lighter rider than me.


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## welsh dragon (15 Mar 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> You could maybe try your throttle to see if the motor will get you up a hill.
> 
> I've boldly asserted a legal motor won't, but it might for a much lighter rider than me.




I used it once when I first got it and sure enough it will get you up quite a steep hill albeit very slowly. On a flat surface I should think it would take off quite fast and take you by surprise.


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## numbnuts (15 Mar 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Known as 'grandfather rights'.
> 
> So it is true to say that any twist and go bike which was legal at the time remains legal for as long as it lasts.


 
I was refiring to the 200w power


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## Pale Rider (15 Mar 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> I used it once when I first got it and sure enough it will get you up quite a steep hill albeit very slowly. On a flat surface I should think it would take off quite fast and take you by surprise.



Looks like rider weight does play a large part, so a legal motor with a throttle might do the OP.



numbnuts said:


> I was refiring to the 200w power



He's largely right about that as well, although it is slightly more complicated.

Ebikes were governed by an EU directive which stipulated 200w, however at some point the UK negotiated an easement, allowing 250w.

I'm not sure of the dates and the sequence, but the few surviving bikes from the late 90s are often 200w, particularly those with the Panasonic crank drive motor which was one of the first motors of that type to come to market.


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## HMS_Dave (15 Mar 2021)

Even with the new rules twist throttles are not illegal, but their use has been changed since Jan 2016. I've seen the legal documentation available and concur with this no nonsense statement.

"Harmonisation with EU law has had an important effect on electric bikes with ‘twist and go’ throttles that can take the bike to full speed without any pedalling at all.

From January 1 2016, the only throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – i.e. starting assistance only.

If the rider is rolling – but not pedalling – faster than 6km/h, the throttle cuts off. If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the throttle can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph.

If you bought an ebike with a full-speed throttle before January 1 2016, don’t panic: those sold prior to this date are still considered as EAPC and do not require a registration or taxed. Practically, you could still buy one a ‘twist and go’ and not be fined, but it would have to have been produced or imported before January 1."


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## Phaeton (15 Mar 2021)

I bought my wife a Freego hawk (is that right?) that had a throttle but they are HEAVY & probably not what the OP needs, unfortunately what they do require is illegal unless there is some blue badge type of exemption.


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## numbnuts (15 Mar 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Looks like rider weight does play a large part, so a legal motor with a throttle might do the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah ............ I see thanks


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## Tenkaykev (15 Mar 2021)

I’m not sure how the bicycle motor manufacturers rate the motor power but from personal experience of working with ( mainly industrial) motors there is usually a “S” rating on the data plates. A S1 rating meant that the motor can provide the power stated indefinitely and higher S numbers limited the time on load within a specific time period. Things like wood cutting tools for example could provide a lot of power for relatively short periods of time but then needed another period of time “ off load “ to allow the windings to cool down. A nominal 250 watt motor for example could provide 500 watts but only for a short while. It was also common for the motors to have fast acting thermistors embedded in the windings to cut the power should the temperature rise to potentially damaging levels ( a cheaper solution was the “ Klixon” but that’s comparatively slower acting and didn’t always act in time )


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## CXRAndy (15 Mar 2021)

Most manufacturers use 250W constant use. Actually they can run much more, probably 750W for periods of time. 

The rules need to be reviewed, relaxed if UK governments want folk out of cars


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## the snail (17 Mar 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Even with the new rules twist throttles are not illegal, but their use has been changed since Jan 2016. I've seen the legal documentation available and concur with this no nonsense statement.


Correct. Throttles are still legal, but the throttle has to be activated by a pedal sensor. So the OP can buy a bike with a cadence sensor and throttle. You have to turn the pedals to activate the throttle, but then it's effectively twist and go, you don't have to actually put any force into pedaling. Or you just buy an illegal kit that effectively works just the same without the pretence of pedaling. The law is pretty stupid really.


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