# Structured Training in 2018



## Tin Pot (6 Jan 2018)

From the marginally successful thread last year, I thought I’d do the same this year:

_Following training plans can be a bit isolated (was for me last year anyway!) so I thought I'd start a thread we can all talk about the plans we're following, challenges and successes.

Post here what you're doing and any questions you have. _

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/structured-training-in-2017.212184/

It’s 2018 now, I had a mixed bag in 2017 following the TrainerRoad Full Iron Distance Triathlon Medium and High Volume Plans, this year I’m paying back and starting off with the Olympic Triathlon Low Volume plan.


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## Tin Pot (6 Jan 2018)

Last year started with FTP below 200, ended at 230 in July, 240W outdoor tester. This year I’m starting at 214W


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## Tin Pot (6 Jan 2018)

Anyone welcome!

Roll call from 2017:

@CXRAndy
@Joffey
@Asa Post
@MasterDabber
@HLaB
@Chappy
@WelshJon
@Shut Up Legs
@uclown2002
@steve292
@kipster
@simon walsh
@postman
@mythste
@r04DiE
@si_c

Adding

@johnnyb47


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## HLaB (6 Jan 2018)

Hi,

Up until three weeks ago I felt I was going well with my training plan but I came down with the flu just before Christmas so things went awry for a while but judging by my last turbo session (which was more powerful than before flu) I feel like I'm back on track.

Oh and as to the year my principle aim was to go under 25mins for a 10 miles TT, I did 5 times, the last time being a 23.57 I think I could have done it more regularly but most courses I done were irregular distance sporting courses.
Longer distances were a bit problematic as I suffered with the Ulnar nerve however. So this winter I've changed the bars to ones with J bends. Hopefully that'll work or I'll be sticking to 10s or sporting courses.


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## Chappy (6 Jan 2018)

Well due to work and training courses my plan won't start untill February. So I am currently picking and choosing my trainer road workouts till then.


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## Asa Post (6 Jan 2018)

As I said last year, I'm not good at sticking to plans unless I've devised them myself - and I proved that by starting two and not finishing either of them. 

What I did do for the last 3 months of 2017 (but only because I'd had a break during the summer and was behind with my mileage target) was to ride 5 days a week instead of 4 and to increase the usual length of the rides. As a result, I finished the year with the highest FTP and CTL I've ever had, and it didn't make me feel too tired to want to continue. I also switched from Bkool to Zwift, and found that I couldn't resist pushing much harder on the hills than I'd usually do on the turbo. I'm sure that played a big part in improving the FTP, and also gave me my best ever 5 and 8 minute power figures.

The temptation is to carry on with what I'm doing, which can't be called a plan because each ride is decided on the day. But there's a little internal voice that keeps whispering that if I did less miles, and upped the level of effort, I'd be working on my weaknesses and I might improve more. I might even finally achieve my dream of an FTP over 200 watts.

@Tin Pot s 40+ watt improvement is inspiring, but I'm not going to start using TrainerRoad because a) I already subscribe to two programs, and I think that's enough, and b) It's not a system that's ever made me think "This will work for me". Don't know why not, but there it is. If I don't have faith in it, I'm bound to fail.

What I want is a plan that holds my attention, doesn't make me feel that I can't cope with the level of effort required, and lets me see (or at least, suggests the possibility of) improvements pretty quickly. I'm sure that's what all of us are looking for.

With the best of intentions, but no real belief that I'll see it through, I've decided to have a go at Zwift's 4 week FTP booster plan, but there's a lot of recovery rides in it. I'm sure that's for good reasons but I don't like riding so slow, so it might be too annoying to follow exactly. I might have to substitute a "ride like I want to" session now and again, which could mean I'll be too tired to manage the difficult stuff. I'll start on the 8th January, and see how far I get.


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## simon walsh (8 Jan 2018)

Plan for 2018

Belfast marathon May Day18
Dublin 1/2 Iron Man 18th August 
Dublin marathon October 18

Working on loosing 2 stone atm with a bit better eating, wattbike sessions and upping the running. 

It was very hard balancing out running and Cycling last year which is a big aim this year to keep both going well at the same time.


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## mythste (10 Jan 2018)

So far this year has been good. By this year I do indeed mean the last 10 days, but lets look at the silver lining.

Tonight will be day 8 of Zwifts "4 week FTP builder" workout. I find the hour or so in an evening manageable and I've made some dietary changes - most notably less sugar before rides and immediate protein after working out - that seem to keep my energy levels and recovery manageable as well.

The only thing I do seem to be suffering with spending so much time (relatively) on the turbo is sore feet! my feet are flatter than a ducks, and whilst it's not so much an issue whilst out on the bike where I can move around, being seated and pedaling continuously for an hour plus is calling for some research into insoles!


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## mythste (10 Jan 2018)

Asa Post said:


> As I said last year, I'm not good at sticking to plans unless I've devised them myself - and I proved that by starting two and not finishing either of them.
> 
> What I did do for the last 3 months of 2017 (but only because I'd had a break during the summer and was behind with my mileage target) was to ride 5 days a week instead of 4 and to increase the usual length of the rides. As a result, I finished the year with the highest FTP and CTL I've ever had, and it didn't make me feel too tired to want to continue. I also switched from Bkool to Zwift, and found that I couldn't resist pushing much harder on the hills than I'd usually do on the turbo. I'm sure that played a big part in improving the FTP, and also gave me my best ever 5 and 8 minute power figures.
> 
> ...



are you measuring cadence on the sessions? one of the big things for me is that zwift suggests a much higher cadence than I would normally ride, that in itself turns even the recovery rides into a good stretch.


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## Asa Post (10 Jan 2018)

mythste said:


> are you measuring cadence on the sessions? one of the big things for me is that zwift suggests a much higher cadence than I would normally ride, that in itself turns even the recovery rides into a good stretch.


I am, and it's harder than keeping to the power levels . 
Three days in, and during and immediately after the rides my legs are sore and aching. I'm fine next morning, though.
I'm sure I could do the power easier at my preferred cadence, but the on-screen instructions say "pedal faster", so I try to do as I'm told.
I'm using Erg mode in Zwift, which means I can let the power take care of itself and concentrate on the cadence. If it wasn't for Erg, I wouldn't have a chance of keeping things on target.


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## Tin Pot (10 Jan 2018)

I was probably averaging 75 rm before TrainerRoad now I workout* above 90rpm. Initially it was very hard to do, now I can got over 110rpm without ‘losing form’ for a while.

Outdoors is another story, I can be up to 100 on the flat but grind up hills below 60  Too heavy. 

Edit: * Interval sessions. Steady state I’m between 80-95rpm to hit the power targets.


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## mythste (11 Jan 2018)

Asa Post said:


> I am, and it's harder than keeping to the power levels .
> Three days in, and during and immediately after the rides my legs are sore and aching. I'm fine next morning, though.
> I'm sure I could do the power easier at my preferred cadence, but the on-screen instructions say "pedal faster", so I try to do as I'm told.
> I'm using Erg mode in Zwift, which means I can let the power take care of itself and concentrate on the cadence. If it wasn't for Erg, I wouldn't have a chance of keeping things on target.



I'm exactly the same. Simply staring at the cadence measure and keeping my pegs spinning!

Whats really interesting is seeing my average power creep up over the series. Only 5 watts or so per session, but interesting never the less.

Did last night at 105% as I was feeling good!


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## kipster (11 Jan 2018)

After mooching around on zwift before Christmas, this thread made me go back to TR, but rather than just look at the graph I'm running zwift alongside it so I have something a bit more interesting to look at. No real plan in mind other than to keep fitness up and be ready for the club Majorca trip in March. I'm doing the sustained power build plan.


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## mythste (12 Jan 2018)

Whats a realistic FTP increase over 12 months if you really gun it - having done no structured training previously and quite frankly a flopped 2017? I'm at 224 at the moment. Would 300 by the end of the year be achievable do we think? It would be nice to have a goal.


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## huwsparky (12 Jan 2018)

mythste said:


> Whats a realistic FTP increase over 12 months if you really gun it - having done no structured training previously and quite frankly a flopped 2017? I'm at 224 at the moment. Would 300 by the end of the year be achievable do we think? It would be nice to have a goal.


If you've been a regular cyclist for years, you won't get to 300w from where you are in a year as you're probably at your plateau. 300w to a 75kg person is pretty much achievable to anyone who sets their mind to it. The key to any plan you set yourself is consistency. No point doing a 3 month TR plan or whatever and then letting it all slip when your urge to completing the workouts isn't there. 10% in a year would be a good benchmark imo.


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## Asa Post (14 Jan 2018)

I sort of failed today's workout, because I gave up on the cadence target .

There were two Sweet Spot efforts of 12 minutes, with a cadence of 95. I don't think I've ever averaged 95 for that length of time in my life. A couple of minutes in, I knew I wasn't going to do it today either. I let the cadence slide away and kept the power going, it was much easier. For the second effort, I ignored the cadence altogether (and still got a gold star - so according to Zwift I didn't fail). The sprints, at higher powers and cadences, were fairly easy because they were short.

I'm going to have some rest days from now on, starting tomorrow. I'll go back to five rides a week and see how I do. 
No days off, and fast spinning for long periods, clearly doesn't suit me. I'll keep trying with the cadences, but I'd rather finish the workout and hit the power targets than blow up completely part-way through a ride.


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## Heltor Chasca (14 Jan 2018)

Very new to structured training. In cycling that is. I am only about 2 months into owning a trainer and using TR. I love it and the results are tangible. My interest is nothing other than general health benefits and Audax. I completed a 200 in early December and another 200 yesterday. From about 6 week’s structured TR workouts I certainly spent less time in the ‘Type 2 Fun Zone’ 

I’ll be sticking to my TR schedule and my other goal is to try a 300 later on in 2018.


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## simon walsh (14 Jan 2018)

Back 2 back Wattbike sessions over the weekend. I am on holiday from work this week with a heavy week training planned including getting back in the pool. Oh and secured my place for Dun Laoghaire 1/2 Ironman also.


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## mythste (16 Jan 2018)

Had my first IRL ride on Sunday, 50 miles and 4000ft so a good little stretch after the festive laziness. 

Legs felt good, and recovery was much better than it has been. I did however forget that I can’t do that amount of climbing without fueling properly. I’ve been doing all of my zwifting on an empty stomach. Que emergency coffee and flapjack 5 miles from home just to make sure!


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## Tin Pot (16 Jan 2018)

mythste said:


> Whats a realistic FTP increase over 12 months if you really gun it - having done no structured training previously and quite frankly a flopped 2017? I'm at 224 at the moment. Would 300 by the end of the year be achievable do we think? It would be nice to have a goal.



Realistic? I’m a man who thinks anything is possible, and I’ve some experience that supports that.

If you haven’t done structured training before, the current zeitgeist says you’ve a good chance of serious gains.

That said, if you’re already at over 4W/Kg (!) I’d say it’s marginal gains  For me however, there’s plenty still on the table to pick up through training.


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## Tin Pot (16 Jan 2018)

Two weeks in, all bike sessions hit and only the first swim missed In still feeling positive.

Today’s interval sessions were easily achievable so I’m getting confident that my bike fitness is coming back.


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## HLaB (20 Jan 2018)

I'm feeling quite positive about the benefits of my structured training over the last few years. Numbers were poor after the flu but they bounced back quite quickly and I've still got a lingering pathetic cough. My intensity is a bit low in my latter intervals some of that is getting bored and sprinting out of zone in the prior but I hope the rest of it is down to this pathetic cough :'/


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## r04DiE (21 Jan 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Anyone welcome!
> 
> Roll call from 2017:
> 
> ...


Ah, thank you, @Tin Pot! I enjoyed that last year. I will get back into the turbo hopefully this year but, due to family issues, I think I might need to buy a new house first! Bear with me...


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## r04DiE (21 Jan 2018)

mythste said:


> ... immediate protein after working out...


Hello there. What are you eating / drinking for your protein fix? Currently I use Wiggle's own protein drink but I am interested to learn what others use! Thanks


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## mythste (26 Jan 2018)

r04DiE said:


> Hello there. What are you eating / drinking for your protein fix? Currently I use Wiggle's own protein drink but I am interested to learn what others use! Thanks



Just a diet whey protein with no sugar or other additives. I'll check the brand when I get home but seems to be doing well!

On week 2 day 6 of the zwift 4 week FTP builder and I've been able to add in commuting (5 miles each way) without detriment which I'm happy about. 

The workouts aren't kicking my ass in quite the way they were at the beginning but im resisting the urge to artificially up my FTP and convincing myself that not completely emptying the tank on every workout is sensible.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jan 2018)

Struggling this week through a bout of apathy and a couple of nights out. Some catching up to do at the weekend which rarely works out...


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2018)

I'm use TR @Tin Pot . What level of volume are you following?

I've used low in the past, but have been using mid volume this time around. Just in the first week of the second 6 week block.

I actually enjoy the sweet spot work

Do you listen to the TR podcasts? I'd encourage you to do so as the three main coaches really know their stuff.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Jan 2018)

Re: Post ride/workout protein

Read in a book* that you may as well buy chocolate milk as you get the same benefit as these expensive options.

**Ultra-Distance Cycling: An Expert Guide to Endurance Cycling*
by Simon Jobson


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## kipster (26 Jan 2018)

Regarding protein, I just eat my dinner after a session, it usually has meat in it, noting as fancy as protein supplements.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Re: Post ride/workout protein
> 
> Read in a book* that you may as well buy chocolate milk as you get the same benefit as these expensive options.
> 
> ...



You can skip the chocolate bit too.


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## mythste (26 Jan 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Re: Post ride/workout protein
> 
> Read in a book* that you may as well buy chocolate milk as you get the same benefit as these expensive options.
> 
> ...



I think that's with regards to maintaining energy as opposed to recovering beyond what you're used to.


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2018)

mythste said:


> I think that's with regards to maintaining energy as opposed to recovering beyond what you're used to.



Not the protein point, no. I've listened to a BC nutritionist say the same.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jan 2018)

400bhp said:


> I'm use TR @Tin Pot . What level of volume are you following?
> 
> I've used low in the past, but have been using mid volume this time around. Just in the first week of the second 6 week block.
> 
> ...



Low volume.

I did mid then high last year, and that may have been a negative factor in my poor results - overtraining.

I’m doing the Low Volume Olympic Triathlon Base 4th week of 6. It’s pretty easy tbh, but consistency is the challenge this year and two bikes two swims two runs a week is tricky to maintain.

After a week of skiing I’m then moving on to the Low Half Distance Triathlon Base.

The podcasts are great and make you feel part of a bigger movement too.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jan 2018)

For some reason I’ve set up a Team in TrainerRoad for cyclechat users

http://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7264-cc-forum-

Join and we can all be wowed by team membership!


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## 400bhp (26 Jan 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> For some reason I’ve set up a Team in TrainerRoad for cyclechat users
> 
> http://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7264-cc-forum-
> 
> Join and we can all be wowed by team membership!


nmoggy


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## mythste (29 Jan 2018)

did 60 flattish miles (2,500ft of up) yesterday and felt amazing. Was out with some pretty fast guys and the ability to burst the speed up and recover was a lovely sensation that I haven't had in some time. i do put that down to the hours on the Turbo, though maybe I was just having a "good day". 

Looking forward to what zwift has in store for me tonight! Not long before my next FTP test... Gulp.


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## HLaB (29 Jan 2018)

r04DiE said:


> Hello there. What are you eating / drinking for your protein fix? Currently I use Wiggle's own protein drink but I am interested to learn what others use! Thanks


I'm using SIS but only because they usually do half price offers on their web site and 2 x 1Kg tubs seem to last last better than one 1.6kg. I used to use the Wiggle stuff but I found you had to wash it out straight away or it harden in a rubbery sort of way and sometimes after a hard session I just want to drink and lazily leave washing up til the next day and if I forgot  Wiggle were out of stock once and I saw an offer on the SiS rego and IMO it tastes better and there's no problem with forgetting to wash up


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## Tin Pot (29 Jan 2018)

400bhp said:


> nmoggy


Your in!


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## Tin Pot (29 Jan 2018)

Two bikes on the trot tomorrow and weds to finish the plan I’m on. Not sure I’m gonna make the two runs as well


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## si_c (2 Feb 2018)

I'll be starting from Monday I think, I struggle to do the week plans though as I commute 30+miles 5 days a week in addition to the training, plus I have mid week commitments.

I'm rearranging my start times though so I should be home earlier and able to get on.

Last year around April my FTP was about 300, last week zwift re-estimated at about 350, but I put that down mostly to commuting the extra distance with one or two high intensity sessions a week through summer. I'd like to raise that to 400 this year by following a plan properly. I'll probably need a new trainer though as I'm already able to sprint past 900W, and some of the intervals look like they may go higher.

I also need to lose some weight, ideally around 10kg to get to around 84kg. 

So that's my plan, albeit late to start.


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2018)

si_c said:


> I'll be starting from Monday I think, I struggle to do the week plans though as I commute 30+miles 5 days a week in addition to the training, plus I have mid week commitments.
> 
> I'm rearranging my start times though so I should be home earlier and able to get on.
> 
> ...


A friend of mine used to commute more days and longer but his coach built training into his commute and it seems to have done wonders.

My turbo has upto 2500w of resistance (the Elite Muin) but I've never been over 630w indoors


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## si_c (2 Feb 2018)

HLaB said:


> A friend of mine used to commute more days and longer but his coach built training into his commute and it seems to have done wonders.


Most days I ride into a headwind both ways, which is good for resistance training, on the way home I often ride with a couple of other lads, both of whom are much lighter and fitter than I, who kill me on the hills, so each one turns into an interval session. That helps I think 


HLaB said:


> My turbo has upto 2500w of resistance (the Elite Muin) but I've never been over 630w indoors



I've only got the Tacx flow, so max resistance is 800 - I can hit that sprinting without too much difficulty - but I bought it to get me through an injury, I didn't think I'd be using it in quite the way I am/plan to. It's likely to be replaced at some point this year - likely with a Tacx Genius.


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## Tin Pot (6 Feb 2018)

Feeling good after some skiing and the first VO2max intervals of the year. Last week of Olympic tri Base this week, then a week off so I might do an FTP test on Saturday.




si_c said:


> I'll be starting from Monday I think, I struggle to do the week plans though as I commute 30+miles 5 days a week in addition to the training, plus I have mid week commitments.
> 
> I'm rearranging my start times though so I should be home earlier and able to get on.
> 
> ...



400W FTP @84Kg would be mighty impressive! GL.


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## si_c (6 Feb 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> 400W FTP @84Kg would be mighty impressive! GL.


To be honest I'd be quite happy with either, but both would be good. Doubt I'll get both, but losing the weight would be sufficient I think.


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## Tin Pot (8 Feb 2018)

I feel like a god amongst men.


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## 400bhp (8 Feb 2018)

I can't see your training on TR pal as you've locked your profile down.


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## Tin Pot (9 Feb 2018)

Come on guys and gals it’s just me and 400bhp so far:

http://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7264-cc-forum-



400bhp said:


> I can't see your training on TR pal as you've locked your profile down.



Updated.

Pretty easy stuff so far, a touch less than the 377 TSS/wk last year! 

Moving up to half/low/base, 243 TSS after a week off.


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## HLaB (10 Feb 2018)

I had an easy week too just a 255 TSS so far (I'll probably add about 150 to that tomorrow), I just did turbo sessions which I felt went really well (nice and consistent intervals) as work v after work activities meant I had no time to cycle commute.


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## Tin Pot (11 Feb 2018)

Swim has improved back to a reasonable rate. The swimsmooth measure CSS 2:17 dropped to 1:55.

Didn’t measure ftp yesterday so will have to wait until next week for my “results”.

Haven’t really tested my running as my ankle is still weak from November.


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## Asa Post (18 Feb 2018)

Those of you with good memories will recall that six weeks ago I said I was going to try Zwift’s 4 Week FTP Booster plan.

I’ve finally finished it.

The plan had 27 sessions in 28 days. I knew I wouldn’t keep to that, and sure enough I found that I had to introduce days of complete rest, as well as doing stuff that wasn’t part of the plan because on some days I didn’t fancy the hard ride that was required.

It’s been interesting and enlightening. I’ve found out a number of things about myself:

I *don’t* have the ability to sustain the high cadences the plan often demands.


I *do* have a sprint. It’s not great, but it’s better than I expected.


I *can* ride at a high power for far longer than my brain wants me to believe.


I *can* push my heart rate higher than I thought was possible, and live to tell the tale.


I *can* recover quickly from hard efforts.
And the main thing is…..

I *can* get my FTP over 200 watts, which as a weedy old age pensioner with an artificial hip who only started cycling when I retired a few years ago is something I never imagined I could achieve. 
If this thread hadn’t been started, I’d have carried on doing my usual “hard, but not too hard” rides and I’m sure they wouldn’t have got me to where I am today.

So Thank You @Tin Pot. You’ve helped to make an old man very happy.

Now, where do I go from here?


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## si_c (18 Feb 2018)

Asa Post said:


> Now, where do I go from here?


220W?


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## Tin Pot (18 Feb 2018)

si_c said:


> 220W?



To the moon @Asa Post !

But seriously. Well done.


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## Tin Pot (25 Feb 2018)

Finally got over the holiday blues and started the next plan.

FTP test went well, though I might’ve got even better but I’m happy being up from 214 to 225 with only 6 weeks light training, 12 rides, a week of skiing and a week off


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## simon walsh (27 Feb 2018)

Main focus is running atm. I have the Carlingford half on Saturday hoping for 1hr 50 or below. Only been out on the bike twice this year thank god for the Wattbike. Swimming has been pretty nonexistent atm. With August is coming up quickly.


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## Tin Pot (1 Mar 2018)

Ok people - there snow* excuse for not training. Pfft. I was just in the garage putting in 600W 20s intervals, who’s still putting in the hours? 



*see what I did there?


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## Breedon (1 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Come on guys and gals it’s just me and 400bhp so far:
> 
> http://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7264-cc-forum-
> 
> ...


Requested to join, only seen this post.
Currently doing build phase of the sweet spot high volume 1 on the 3rd week and this morning done Tallac +3 which is 2 hours 5 x 15 minutes with 5 minutes rest at an FTP of 260


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Mar 2018)

Just started my first week of my Speciality Phase (Century Low Level) Two sessions in and sticking to my 205 FTP. I really don't like FTP tests. Horrid things.


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## Tin Pot (1 Mar 2018)

@Breedon You're in!



Heltor Chasca said:


> Just started my first week of my Speciality Phase (Century Low Level) Two sessions in and sticking to my 205 FTP. I really don't like FTP tests. Horrid things.



Speciality phase is four months away for me whilst I go through base and build. Have you looked at the new FTP test they’ve done, much shorter, like a ramp test. You go harder and harder until you can’t go any harder. About fifteen minutes I think it takes.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> @Breedon You're in!
> 
> 
> 
> Speciality phase is four months away for me whilst I go through base and build. Have you looked at the new FTP test they’ve done, much shorter, like a ramp test. You go harder and harder until you can’t go any harder. About fifteen minutes I think it takes.



No I haven’t seen the new FTP test. I would be interested though. What is it called in their workout list?

I am sceptical about the 20 minute FTP on TR. As a rule I can train on a much higher FTP than the results of the test show. I use my Kickr Snap in erg mode. Mind you: Two days ago I did my assessment after 5 hours on the tools digging and grubbing out tree stumps in the frozen soil. I also had taken down a small Pyrus tree. Not a good day to do it, but that’s what life dictates and sometimes I arrive at an Audax already wiped out from 5 days physical, outdoor work. Somehow I get round.


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## Breedon (1 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> @Breedon You're in!
> 
> 
> 
> Speciality phase is four months away for me whilst I go through base and build. Have you looked at the new FTP test they’ve done, much shorter, like a ramp test. You go harder and harder until you can’t go any harder. About fifteen minutes I think it takes.


I'm going to try that new test when I need to seems better than the 20 minutes test


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Mar 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> No I haven’t seen the new FTP test. I would be interested though. What is it called in their workout list?
> 
> I am sceptical about the 20 minute FTP on TR. As a rule I can train on a much higher FTP than the results of the test show. I use my Kickr Snap in erg mode. Mind you: Two days ago I did my assessment after 5 hours on the tools digging and grubbing out tree stumps in the frozen soil. I also had taken down a small Pyrus tree. Not a good day to do it, but that’s what life dictates and sometimes I arrive at an Audax already wiped out from 5 days physical, outdoor work. Somehow I get round.



Ok @Tin Pot I have found the ‘Ramp Test X’. It won't auto-calculate just yet. I get the impression they may work on that. So basically you ride as hard as you can until you bail. I get that bit, but how do you work the maths to workout your ballpark FTP? Sorry I’m no mathematician.


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## Tin Pot (1 Mar 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Ok @Tin Pot I have found the ‘Ramp Test X’. It won't auto-calculate just yet. I get the impression they may work on that. So basically you ride as hard as you can until you bail. I get that bit, but how do you work the maths to workout your ballpark FTP? Sorry I’m no mathematician.



Yes that’s it. You need to join their Beta group on Facebook I think and their guys will manually calculate the FTP for you.

I’m not doing it yet, because I’m not convinced ramp testing will be good for me.


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## simon walsh (1 Mar 2018)

I have been using the Sufferfest app with wattbike to work out ftp for the last couple of years seams to work well. I also found that once I started back onto the road as opposed to the wattbike my ftp dropped. Really shows how effective indoor training can be as much as it can be boring.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes that’s it. You need to join their Beta group on Facebook I think and their guys will manually calculate the FTP for you.
> 
> I’m not doing it yet, because I’m not convinced ramp testing will be good for me.



Thank you. I found a tutorial by Shane Millar on YouTube and if this photo comes out, this is the summary. For the hell of it I may try one tomorrow.


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## Breedon (1 Mar 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Ok @Tin Pot I have found the ‘Ramp Test X’. It won't auto-calculate just yet. I get the impression they may work on that. So basically you ride as hard as you can until you bail. I get that bit, but how do you work the maths to workout your ballpark FTP? Sorry I’m no mathematician.


You need to send it to trainerroad guys/gals and they will work it out for you


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## Asa Post (1 Mar 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Thank you. I found a tutorial by Shane Millar on YouTube and if this photo comes out, this is the summary. For the hell of it I may try one tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 398072


For those not using TR, there is a downloadable .zwo file to do the test in Zwift. Click on my link and scroll down a bit for the link to the file.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Mar 2018)

VO2 max intervals scheduled for tomorrow morning. Built a plan using the principles in Joe Friel's fast after 50 book. Really enjoying it and the book allows me to focus on what is important in each of the periods of training. Hitting power numbers whilst listening to music seems to work well for me.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Mar 2018)

To add, I found an application that analyses your music and adds the BPM to its meta data. You can then create playlists for your workouts based on BPM to match cadence.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Mar 2018)

Intervals done. It felt hard but good.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Mar 2018)

Does anyone use Heart Rate Variability in their training?. I notice you can get HRV apps to work with BT4.0 or Ant Heart chest straps.

https://www.hrvcourse.com/heart-rate-variability-vs-heart-rate/


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## Breedon (4 Mar 2018)

I just use my hrt monitor to see how im doing


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Mar 2018)

Did TrainerRoad’s experimental Ramp Test X today. I liked it and felt it was a truer representation of my efforts than the 8 and 20 minute tests. I hit my maximum heart rate which I don't normally do on the other tests. I blew up and was almost ill, but I gained 2% on my FTP so I’m feeling encouraged. That was after 2 days sledging with the kids.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Mar 2018)

These are the indicators an App gives based on Heart Rate Variability. So a useful tool to avoid overtraining or to up your training on a day if it indicates you can handle it.

Green: indicates that compared to your own personal trends, you should be able to handle more stress today. This often includes being able to:


Exercise a little harder than normal
Tackle a few more items on your to-do list
Think a little more clearly at work or school
Have reduced systemic inflammation
Yellow (Sympathetic): indicates the body is under a bit more stress than usual. Consider lighter exercise and reducing stressful activity unless you have restful days coming up or if over doing it is not a concern.

Yellow (Parasympathetic): indicates the body’s recovery systems are working overtime to recover from a large or accumulated stress. This state is correlated with over reaching in training or over-active parasympathetic (recovery) systems.

Red (sympathetic): indicates the body is experiencing deeper levels of stress or fatigue. To avoid over training or over stressing it is highly recommended to prioritize rest.

Red (parasympathetic): indicates a deeper level of recovery activity in response to accumulated stress. The body is likely reaching an over trained state. It is strongly recommended to prioritize light active recovery.


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## Breedon (4 Mar 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Did TrainerRoad’s experimental Ramp Test X today. I liked it and felt it was a truer representation of my efforts than the 8 and 20 minute tests. I hit my maximum heart rate which I don't normally do on the other tests. I blew up and was almost ill, but I gained 2% on my FTP so I’m feeling encouraged. That was after 2 days sledging with the kids.


Is the ramp test done in erg mode.


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## HLaB (4 Mar 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Does anyone use Heart Rate Variability in their training?. I notice you can get HRV apps to work with BT4.0 or Ant Heart chest straps.
> 
> https://www.hrvcourse.com/heart-rate-variability-vs-heart-rate/


I switched to power training when I started structured training at first Virtual Power via TR and now an actual Power Meter. For some bizarre reason my HR monitors have all failed since I started the more structured intervals (I wear one to record only). Perhaps they can't cope with being bathed in sweat


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Mar 2018)

Breedon said:


> Is the ramp test done in erg mode.



You can choose either.


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## Tin Pot (5 Mar 2018)

HLaB said:


> I switched to power training when I started structured training at first Virtual Power via TR and now an actual Power Meter. For some bizarre reason my HR monitors have all failed since I started the more structured intervals (I wear one to record only). Perhaps they can't cope with being bathed in sweat



I don’t bother with HR anymore - I do check occasionally say after a hard interval or during FTP testing just to see if it’s where I expect, and it almost always is. I think after a few years training with HR you get to know yourself better.

HRV has never really grabbed my attention. I’ve heard a lot about it, but I can’t see that I’d benefit from worrying about it.


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## Tin Pot (13 Mar 2018)

Inconsistent week from me again, but I managed two turbos and four runs including a new PB over 5k. Good sign this early in the season I hope. Interrupted on the the last two turbo sessions too, which doesn’t matter so much but makes you feel a bit lacklustre.

How’s everyone else progressing?


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## Chappy (13 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> For some reason I’ve set up a Team in TrainerRoad for cyclechat users
> 
> http://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7264-cc-forum-
> 
> Join and we can all be wowed by team membership!



Request sent Tin Pot


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## Chappy (13 Mar 2018)

Update from me. 

I am currently on week 3 of the Sustained Power Build low volume and it is going well as I can train at work during my lunch hour and do a long outdoor ride at the weekends. All this is in preparation for the Dartmoor Classic this year and so far there is improvement I rode the Wiltshire Wildcat on Sunday and my average speed has gone up and I was able to push myself harder all the way round. 

So all in all positive progress so far just have to keep up the consistency.


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## Tin Pot (13 Mar 2018)

Chappy said:


> Request sent Tin Pot



You are in!


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## Chappy (13 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> You are in!



Cheers Mate


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## Jerry Atrik (13 Mar 2018)

Request sent Tim but it might be under Wyvil 59


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## 400bhp (13 Mar 2018)

Just completed a 3rd FTP test in the last 12-15 weeks on TR (2 x 8 minutes).

I fell apart on the second of the two, with two to three minutes to go. I was ill at the weekend with a stomach bug that stopped me racing too and I suspect that was the outcome of it. I've historically managed to do both 8 minute efforts within a few watts of each other but today the second was some 14w lower. Still, a test is a test and it's given me a reasonable number to work with.

Actually, it's given me two numbers. One for the Kickr and one for my P1 pedals (recorded via a Garmin).
I've been tracking the accurancy and consistency for the two for the past month. They are consistently within 1-2w.
This was also the first time I'd tested using the two sources. Prior testing was with a Stages PM (now confirmed to be unreliable) and an old set of P1 pedals (that had to be replaced under warranty).

I suspect my new P1s show slightly lower readings than my old set, but so long as they are consistent I don't mind.




FWIW a bit of anecdotal evidence for you in respect of the 8 minute FTP estimation. I have a pal who has a set of Garmin P3 pedals. He tested using the 8 minutes a few weeks ago and it gave him an estimated FTP of 317w. He did a race lasting about 1 hr 15 minutes and set he couldn't have done any more that what he gave. His NP for the race was 315w.


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## HLaB (14 Mar 2018)

I've had a bit too much going on so my training has notbeen the best. That said for the input I was quite pleased with where I was pre Christmas. Then the flu hit. Eventually got back to where I was despite all the things that are going on. Then bang, on Saturday I awoke feeling a bit odd and then my stomach had a mass bloody blow out. Strangely enough it never felt sore before or after but my performances aren't half of what they were. I think I'll skip tomorrow's session and do a little fettling instead.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Mar 2018)

Tested FTP yesterday and it is up 20 watts since Jan. Now entering my second late base training period. The main insight for many here is how you can improve with it not requiring the sessions to be that long at all. Stress + recovery = fitness. Miss either out and the fitness drops.


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## Tin Pot (16 Mar 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Tested FTP yesterday and it is up 20 watts since Jan. Now entering my second late base training period. The main insight for many here is how you can improve with it not requiring the sessions to be that long at all. Stress + recovery = fitness. Miss either out and the fitness drops.


Totally agree.

My problem is a cycle of sudden urge to overtrain followed by no desire to train at all. I’m hoping that I can resist both of those and simply follow a low volume structured plan. First six week plan went well. The current 8 week plan is...a bit rocky.


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## si_c (16 Mar 2018)

All my plans for engaging in some structured training have fallen by the wayside a bit. I struggled last year to quantify why, but since the beginning of the year I've been using an HRM on all my commutes too, and I actually work quite hard on those rides, to the point where my training load indicates I'm permanently fatigued.

Last night I did the Zwift KISS Europe race, only did the C cat rather than the B, but I was still having a real struggle to maintain 80% FTP beyond the hour.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> My problem is a cycle of sudden urge to overtrain followed by no desire to train at all. I’m hoping that I can resist both of those and simply follow a low volume structured plan. First six week plan went well. The current 8 week plan is...a bit rocky.



I build in rest weeks into my plans. I still train at the same intensities of the preceding week but cut the volume right down to low doze. I also have reat days where I go for a short walk or do strength work. I have scheduled the rest weeks to happen after my events. Seeing the results I am getting I have no intention of increasing the intensity or duration of the workouts other than as indicated in the high level training periods.


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## Chappy (16 Mar 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I build in rest weeks into my plans. I still train at the same intensities of the preceding week but cut the volume right down to low doze. I also have reat days where I go for a short walk or do strength work. I have scheduled the rest weeks to happen after my events. Seeing the results I am getting I have no intention of increasing the intensity or duration of the workouts other than as indicated in the high level training periods.



This is why I like trainer road. I am on a rest week next week so I have 3 recovery rides to do .


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## HLaB (19 Mar 2018)

I think Ive finally got the answer to why Ive been down on power for a bit, then dramatically down on power last Sunday. I've been putting it down as stress. Turns out it was a haemhorroid I passed last Saturday. Being light whilst Ive had discomfort (I put it down to rear end shunt from a car 5 years back when the symptoms began) it's not been debilitating. My first TT of the season on Saturday without too much structured training could be very interesting


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## Tin Pot (19 Mar 2018)

Chappy said:


> This is why I like trainer road. I am on a rest week next week so I have 3 recovery rides to do .



Never felt there was much recovery in the recovery weeks of the TR triathlon plans - I can’t speak to the bike plans.

For example, I’m on a recovery week this week - total TSS on the bike is only ten less than last week. Each of the runs are only five minutes less. About 2o mins less swim over the week.

In my mind, a recovery week would be about half the usual effort.


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## Tin Pot (19 Mar 2018)

HLaB said:


> I think Ive finally got the answer to why Ive been down on power for a bit, then dramatically down on power last Sunday. I've been putting it down as stress. Turns out it was a haemhorroid I passed last Saturday. Being light whilst Ive had discomfort (I put it down to rear end shunt from a car 5 years back when the symptoms began) it's not been debilitating. My first TT of the season on Saturday without too much structured training could be very interesting



Ooch! Take it easy fella!


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## Chappy (19 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Never felt there was much recovery in the recovery weeks of the TR triathlon plans - I can’t speak to the bike plans.
> 
> For example, I’m on a recovery week this week - total TSS on the bike is only ten less than last week. Each of the runs are only five minutes less. About 2o mins less swim over the week.
> 
> In my mind, a recovery week would be about half the usual effort.




Trainer road call it active recovery. Where doing something is better than just having a week of the bike.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Mar 2018)

I’m on a recovery week with TR. Then I’m going to mess it up with a little Audax on Sunday.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Mar 2018)

Set of high dose aerobic capacity intervals today. First set after retesting power thresholds. Suitably hard.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2018)

Lactate threshold intervals today. Nice and steady and heart rate towards end if each interval pretty much the same. Average power above the level of my FTP before retest. Happy with new levels to work at. Seem to be suitably taxing whilst achievable.


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## Tin Pot (22 Mar 2018)

So much for recovery week, seem to have pulled my hamstring during run intervals on Tuesday.

Not sure whether to turbo today or not.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Mar 2018)

Hill intervals today. Hard but enjoyed them.


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## Chappy (23 Mar 2018)

30 mile outdoor ride today to end a recovery week. 2 days of the bike now I have an FTP retest on Monday.


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2018)

Anyone on TR this weekend? I can’t see any rides on Team CC Forum for some reason.

Hamstring seems to be okay so did an hour of muscular endurance intervals this morning. Might put in a few more rides to catch up on the training plan but realise I’m risking more injury.


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## Heltor Chasca (24 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Anyone on TR this weekend? I can’t see any rides on Team CC Forum for some reason.
> 
> Hamstring seems to be okay so did an hour of muscular endurance intervals this morning. Might put in a few more rides to catch up on the training plan but realise I’m risking more injury.



I haven’t ever been able to see those rides although I’m on there. Did my last recovery ride a day early yesterday and today I’m resting up before a lumpy Audax tomorrow.

I have played sport and had a physical job most of my life. I would err on the side of caution with a hamstring. GWS @Tin Pot


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2018)

Cheers and no, no rides are showing in the team ride feed. I’ve checked the preferences are still correct so I’ve emailed TR support.


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2018)

They’re working on it 



> We are currently having trouble with the team ride feed. Our developers are aware of the issue and are working on a fix. I don't have an ETA on a fix just yet, but hopefully we'll have it up and running normally soon.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Mar 2018)

More aerobic capacity intervals high dose. Settled into it well with the music playing away. Lactate Threshold intervals planned for Thursday. Last week of base then moving onto my first build phase. Really starting to notice the difference in fitness.


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## Chappy (26 Mar 2018)

FTP test today I'm up 18 points to 220. Good progress after 4 weeks build training.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Mar 2018)

I have been doing a programme with Trainer Road geared towards long days in the saddle. That’s because my interests are Audax and touring and it suits the fitness that fits with my ‘blue print’. I’m in the final ‘Specialism’ phase.

Yesterday I went out and rode a 116km Audax. I went with my chesty cold too, but felt good enough to ride despite having disrupted sleep for the last week. Tell you what: I got round in the lowest time, fastest average speed and I found the 1300m ascent bareable. That was with me thinking I’ll take it slow because of my cold! I was fascinated how quickly my heart rate returned to normal after an exerted period of effort on a climb. I was also pleasantly surprised that I didn’t hurt this morning.

Those Trainer Road people have got it going on.


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## elie.w (27 Mar 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> From the marginally successful thread last year, I thought I’d do the same this year:
> 
> _Following training plans can be a bit isolated (was for me last year anyway!) so I thought I'd start a thread we can all talk about the plans we're following, challenges and successes.
> 
> ...



This sounds great! I've been trying to start training for this summer, as I'm planning to go on a biking holiday, but was unsure of what would be the best way to kick off!!


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Mar 2018)

elie.w said:


> This sounds great! I've been trying to start training for this summer, as I'm planning to go on a biking holiday, but was unsure of what would be the best way to kick off!!



Most of the plans people are following on here will be using intervals based on different intensities. The intensities and durations of each training session will vary based on where people are in their training plan. How you get started will depend on whether you have a turbo, a power meter, a heart rate monitor or none of the above. You can measure power, heart rate, or just how hard you feel you are working (Rate of Perceived Exertion).

An interval is where you work hard for a period of time, followed by easy pedalling, then work hard again. For instance climbing a hill, then rolling down, then going back up. Spinning faster or in a bigger gear for a period, then spinning slower or in a lower gear for a period to recover.

However you start; the first thing to do is get a baseline of your cycling fitness. A turbo makes this easy as it provides consistency without you needing to worry about junctions, traffic or weather impacting the result. But if not; a hill, quiet bit of road with no junctions, or a favourite loop can be used.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2018)

Lactate threshold intervals today. The iPad ran out of battery before the end, so it did not get saved. But as I was in the last couple of minutes of the cool down , not too bothered. Here endeth one of my training periods. Bit of rest and easy riding before retesting ftp and aerobic capacity. Then I move onto my first build phase period of training.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2018)

Next FTP retest coming up, eek


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2018)

FTP test completed. The 20 minute variety, so 20 min warm up, 20 minute test, and 5 minute cool down. My FTP is up another 13 watts. I was fighting through the second half to keep the power going till the end, but seem to have paced it just right, no sudden drop off in the power I could sustain. My head was telling me ease up, but the legs keep turning those pedals steady as she goes. It is clearly doing me good, but it does not feel like it right now. I am whacked.

Easy day tomorrow then onto Build 1 training period with the new power figures.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2018)

This might be of interest.

http://blog.trainerroad.com/ask-chad-8-minute-test-vs-20-minute-test/


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## Tin Pot (4 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> FTP test completed. The 20 minute variety, so 20 min warm up, 20 minute test, and 5 minute cool down. My FTP is up another 13 watts. I was fighting through the second half to keep the power going till the end, but seem to have paced it just right, no sudden drop off in the power I could sustain. My head was telling me ease up, but the legs keep turning those pedals steady as she goes. It is clearly doing me good, but it does not feel like it right now. I am whacked.
> 
> Easy day tomorrow then onto Build 1 training period with the new power figures.


 NIce work Yukonboy!


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Apr 2018)

Second pop at the new TR Ramp Test X which is used to measure your FTP.

Despite a 200+km Audax two days ago I had a strong ride (for me) and finished up with an improved FTP of 246 or 3.37 FTP/kg.

In my small world I am rather pleased.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Second pop at the new TR Ramp Test X which is used to measure your FTP.
> 
> Despite a 200+km Audax two days ago I had a strong ride (for me) and finished up with an improved FTP of 246 or 3.37 FTP/kg.
> 
> In my small world I am rather pleased.



That's great. I do not pay too much attention to the exact figure as I know it may vary from trainer to trainer. But I do pay attention to improvement in my figures on the same trainer, with the same setup, and my tyre pressures the same. I think it is the relative improvement that is important, as I know that is consistent even if it under or over reads compared to others.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2018)

First session at new intensities and durations in first build phase of this year. Went ok, and was able to hold intensities, so new FTP seems about right. Recovery ride tomorrow.


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## Chappy (6 Apr 2018)

Just finished my first week after my FTP raise. It has been tougher but I am feeling good.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2018)

Chappy said:


> Just finished my first week after my FTP raise. It has been tougher but I am feeling good.



Tough but achievable is about right. We retest then set the bar higher so we are being stretched but not to breaking point. If workouts start to feel easy then it is a sign we are plateauing, with improvements levelling off. If we can't complete our workouts then either they are too hard or we are overtrained / not taking recovery seriously.

So good job in your first week at the higher intensities.


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## Chappy (6 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Tough but achievable is about right. We retest then set the bar higher so we are being stretched but not to breaking point. If workouts start to feel easy then it is a sign we are plateauing, with improvements levelling off. If we can't complete our workouts then either they are too hard or we are overtrained / not taking recovery seriously.
> 
> So good job in your first week at the higher intensities.



Exactly right. This is what the guys talk about all the time on the podcast


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## Heltor Chasca (7 Apr 2018)

Very physical week at work. Thought I felt ok last night so climbed aboard the Kickr. Couldn’t even make it past the warm up. Fried. Physically fried. I’ll reassign my workout for an easier session. 

TrainerRoad is great for this: Say you are scheduled to do a “CycleChat +3”, you can either go in and choose a “CycleChat +1” which has less training stress or you can drop the intensity %.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2018)

For structured training to work you have to be flexible. My plans are structured around priorities. During each training phase there are priority areas and workouts to tackle those. If I find I cannot manage all of my workouts then I ensure I complete the priority workouts and drop the low priority ones. So for me, knowing what the priorities are in each training phase or period is key.

Structured training that is rigid will break, it needs to flex with you.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2018)

Fitted in some speed intervals on the road tonight. They were meant to be tomorrow morning but forecast to rain. Did not fancy speed work in the rain. So swapped today's steady state for tomorrow's speed work. So steady endurance ride in the rain tomorrow.


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## Heltor Chasca (7 Apr 2018)

Managed a good hour today. Had to drop the intensity % a bit and choose a slightly easier version of my scheduled workout. I really think I underestimated how hard I grafted at work this week. Onwards and upwards. At least I’ll sleep well.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Managed a good hour today. Had to drop the intensity % a bit and choose a slightly easier version of my scheduled workout. I really think I underestimated how hard I grafted at work this week. Onwards and upwards. At least I’ll sleep well.



Good man. Important you pay attention to stresses and fatigue and not just from the workouts. If you consistently find you need to dial it down you may be overtrained or overstressed. Recovery is as important as your hard workout days. Skimp on either and the benefits will be reduced or even go into decline.


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## Tin Pot (7 Apr 2018)

Been in the garden too much, 12hrs today alone.

I’m slacking off training


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Been in the garden too much, 12hrs today alone.
> 
> I’m slacking off training



Nah, you have been working on your core, and strength build phase. Another important bit of training.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2018)

Forgot to add that I tried some podcasts during my recent training.

Sherlock Holmes - too hard to concentrate and follow plot during intervals
Adventure series, Kayaking the length of the Columbia river. Really easy to listen to, and keep the motivation through the hard efforts.


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## HLaB (8 Apr 2018)

Finally light at the end of the tunnel. After yesterday's ride I was in such a state that I went to see the emergency walk in centre doc on the advice of the mates I was cycling with. The doc reckoned my blood pressure, heart rate was good and my lungs sounded good too and they considered it was my stomach making me uncomfortable at one end and an an allergy at the other and the anxiety of both was making my heart race/ me breathless. I also think stress was adding to the melting pot. Anyway for the first time in ages I got a decent nights sleep and actually went a bit better today. I hope to get back on the training soon but may lower my FTP zones.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2018)

An easy ride in the rain today, recovery day.


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## Tin Pot (9 Apr 2018)

First 2hr steady state turbo of 2018 in the bag. 

Never ceases to surprise me at how ridiculously easy it feels at the start compared to the last 20mins


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2018)

Did 50 mins of intervals today and my average power was exactly the FTP determined from the last test. Spooky...

Will do some aerobic threshold work in the rain tomorrow. I don't think I could manage the steady state stuff for a few hours on the turbo. So I go on the road for those and leave the turbo for the shorter harder interval efforts.


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## huwsparky (10 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Did 50 mins of intervals today and my average power was exactly the FTP determined from the last test. Spooky...



Are you including a warm-up and cool down in that 50 mins power?


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2018)

huwsparky said:


> Are you including a warm-up and cool down in that 50 mins power?



No.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2018)

Short session of aerobic capacity intervals today. Now more endurance intensity for rest of the week. Audax ride on Sat.


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## HLaB (10 Apr 2018)

Cleaned the TT bike does that count as structured?


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Apr 2018)

HRV App indicates body in recovery mode today. So defo no intervals. Easy walk in the mist me thinks


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2018)

More mist today, reckon the gorillas have moved in.


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## Tin Pot (13 Apr 2018)

I’m trying out using the “Freeride” workout during outdoor rides today, it seems to be recording so far. Will be interesting if I can get a full commute ride into TR and see what stats it gives.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2018)

Started using Golden Cheetah software to track my fitness trends and workouts. I have found everything Training Peaks had and this software is free. Has some good charts showing VO2 trend, power trends, power curves by duration, and fitness vs. fatigue / freshness.


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## Tin Pot (13 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Started using Golden Cheetah software to track my fitness trends and workouts. I have found everything Training Peaks had and this software is free. Has some good charts showing VO2 trend, power trends, power curves by duration, and fitness vs. fatigue / freshness.


I used that a bit last year, but it’s quite manual and unintuitive.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> I used that a bit last year, but it’s quite manual and unintuitive.



It is only manual in terms of loading your workouts. But that is drag and drop or it can talk to gps direct. There are some good help videos online and that let me understand the bits I care about. I found it relatively intuitive but different people connect with different UIs. Also depends what you were trying to use it for.


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## Tin Pot (13 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> I’m trying out using the “Freeride” workout during outdoor rides today, it seems to be recording so far. Will be interesting if I can get a full commute ride into TR and see what stats it gives.



No luck. TR stopped recording seven or twelve minutes into each ride and missed one altogether.

I’ll put the bike computer back on and do the whole golden cheetah thing next time.

It’s a shame you can’t record power rides into TR without Strava Premium.


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## huwsparky (13 Apr 2018)

How did the Audax go @YukonBoy ?


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## Tin Pot (14 Apr 2018)

50mins hill run yesterday lunch, 2hr commute home with long sub FTP intervals (according to Strava anyway). Felt hard. Very hungry. Slept well.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Apr 2018)

huwsparky said:


> How did the Audax go @YukonBoy ?



Went well. Easy day today, just a nice local walk. Fitness coming along nicely.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2018)

Hill repeats today, an hours worth. Lega tired from Audax over weekend but managed to keep at it for the hour set aside.


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## Chappy (17 Apr 2018)

Back into another recovery week today. Need to rest up a bit ready for the dreaded FTP test on Monday and the start of my specialty plan .


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2018)

Sneaked in a few hill repeats this evening as travelling next couple of days with little opportunity to get any sessions in.


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## Chappy (17 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Sneaked in a few hill repeats this evening as travelling next couple of days with little opportunity to get any sessions in.



Always good to up the TSS if there is a break in training coming up.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Apr 2018)

Chappy said:


> Always good to up the TSS if there is a break in training coming up.



Exactly fit your training in with your life, not the other way round.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Apr 2018)

Well I fitted in some aerobic capacity pyramids at stupid O'clock this morning. right that is it till Friday now.


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## Tin Pot (18 Apr 2018)

Double days seem to be working for me. 40mins interval run, then 2hr hill ride home yesterday, feel fine.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2018)

Fitted in a threshold session today. Took the time during a couple of the easy bits to get off bike to soak a cap in cold water and top up water bottle. If you are doing intervals in this heat make sure you do not overheat or get too dehydrated.


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## Heltor Chasca (20 Apr 2018)

My FTP went up a couple of weeks ago when I was on form and rested. Now that work is very physical and I am doing a hilly 16km School Run every day, I am struggling.

I am not ashamed to say I knocked my FTP down just so I can get through my workouts. My knee was hinting I need to. (Old rugby injury) Next week is a recovery week with easy workouts and then a favourite Audax route here in the West Country (Merry Monk)


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## huwsparky (20 Apr 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> If you are doing intervals in this heat make sure you do not overheat or get too dehydrated.


Thanks for the heads-up dude


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2018)

Some AC intervals early this morning before it got hot. Long AT ride tomorrow with a cafe towards the end.


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## Chappy (23 Apr 2018)

FTP test today. Gone up from 227 to 234 so happy with that. Now on to the climbing road race specialty plan for the next 6 weeks.


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## Shortandcrisp (23 Apr 2018)

Chappy said:


> FTP test today. Gone up from 227 to 234 so happy with that. Now on to the climbing road race specialty plan for the next 6 weeks.



Snap! Same as mine.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Apr 2018)

Lactate threshold intervals today. Golden Cheetah reckons my FTP is up another 3 watts and VO2 max still climbing. Reaching end of a build phase this weekend. Then a few day recovery and FTP and VO2 tests before starting build 2 phase.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2018)

Was due to do some Aerobic Capacity intervals today but my HRV App indicated I was not rested and should do light recovery work. So did an easy CTC ride tonight instead. Hopefully will be rested enough for the Intervals tomorrow.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2018)

Did aerobic capacity intervals today. Golden Cheetah reckons my FTP is up another 9'watts. Got a 300 audax on Sat then a rest week then ftp test to find the truth.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Apr 2018)

Finished my ‘Speciality’ phase on TR. Presumably that means I am Olympic standard now.

I assume I rest up for a week or three then start again with the ‘Build’ Phase. I’m keen to ramp up the amount I train to mid volume, but I don’t ‘quite’ have enough time. I wonder if I drop the recovery ride mid week, I’ll be in keeping with a sensible structure. Anyone have any ideas?


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## Tin Pot (27 Apr 2018)

@YukonBoy 

Be forgotten how to get TSS out of goldencheetah, uploaded a file this morning has no values in the “model”. Any ideas?


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## Asa Post (27 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> @YukonBoy
> 
> Be forgotten how to get TSS out of goldencheetah, uploaded a file this morning has no values in the “model”. Any ideas?


I'm not sure what you mean about the TSS - does it not display at all, or does it display a zero?

As for the blanks in the model, this may help to explain it':
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golden-cheetah-users/r43uiRGbU6E
It's worth reading the whole thread, but in summary - delete the activity, restart GC, reload the activity.


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## Tin Pot (27 Apr 2018)

Asa Post said:


> I'm not sure what you mean about the TSS - does it not display at all, or does it display a zero?
> 
> As for the blanks in the model, this may help to explain it':
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golden-cheetah-users/r43uiRGbU6E
> It's worth reading the whole thread, but in summary - delete the activity, restart GC, reload the activity.



I thing displayed. I’ll give your suggestion a go.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Apr 2018)

@Tin Pot You have to sekect a model to use as it is not set by default. Then it should show up.


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## Chappy (27 Apr 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Finished my ‘Speciality’ phase on TR. Presumably that means I am Olympic standard now.
> 
> I assume I rest up for a week or three then start again with the ‘Build’ Phase. I’m keen to ramp up the amount I train to mid volume, but I don’t ‘quite’ have enough time. I wonder if I drop the recovery ride mid week, I’ll be in keeping with a sensible structure. Anyone have any ideas?



Heltor

Have you seen the minus version of most of the workouts. You can reduce you workout time without sacrificing to much TSS .


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Apr 2018)

Chappy said:


> Heltor
> 
> Have you seen the minus version of most of the workouts. You can reduce you workout time without sacrificing to much TSS .



Ahh good thinking and a great idea. Thank you.


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## HLaB (28 Apr 2018)

Oh well hopefully I can start to get back on it.
I did an FTP test today and its fallen by a 118w  to 137w  but given my current state that's probably about right my best TT power of the year was only 150w.
I've been putting a lot of it down to stress, the resultant lack of training and a haemorrhoid but I've resolved the stress issue now and can star to rebuild.
I've also realised that my decline started just after we moved office and doh I never really focused on the AC vent directly overhead. That and a colleagues fan on full blast is playing havoc with my immune system. I've focused too much on the stress. On warmer day's my head is boiling but the left side of my body (my colleagues side) is freezing and the right side is fine. Its causing a allergic reaction which has narrowed my nasal passage and throat and exercise over 85% of my max HR is closing too much. If I keep it below 70% I can go on all day. I'm going to be anti social on Monday and move my desk and hopefully that resolves it and lets me rebuild. My VO2 max says it all:





It was relatively high this time last year (62 ml/kg/min) then I started to taper and it gradually fell but I started to rebuild for the new season (up to 59 ml/kg/min) . Then I got one of those flu's and it fell quite a bit (55 ml/kg/min) but I built my self up again (back to 59 ml/kg/min). We moved office not long before that rebuild peak and as the AC unit/fan have been gradually used more I've fallen to 47 ml/kg/min. Garmin still describes that as excellent for my age but it sure doesn't manifest as such


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## 400bhp (28 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> @YukonBoy
> 
> Be forgotten how to get TSS out of goldencheetah, uploaded a file this morning has no values in the “model”. Any ideas?



Are you on Farcebook? If so then sign up to TR beta testers. You then get loads of useful stats in the TR desktop, including TSS (historic) from ALL rides, not just TR workouts.


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## Tin Pot (29 Apr 2018)

400bhp said:


> Are you on Farcebook? If so then sign up to TR beta testers. You then get loads of useful stats in the TR desktop, including TSS (historic) from ALL rides, not just TR workouts.


Yes but Inhave to estimate TSS for my outdoor rides because Strava won’t take the power data, I assume unless I subscribe to premium.

I found that there’s an option in GC that shows tss in the diary bit so you can see all tss values immediately. Still doesn’t show in the main reports though.


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## 400bhp (29 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes but Inhave to estimate TSS for my outdoor rides because Strava won’t take the power data, I assume unless I subscribe to premium.
> 
> I found that there’s an option in GC that shows tss in the diary bit so you can see all tss values immediately. Still doesn’t show in the main reports though.



I've just looked on my Strava and there's at least one person not on premium I know that has a power meter and it shows on Strava so that's a bit odd?

If you load up rides in gpx format that won’t show power data?


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## Chappy (29 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes but Inhave to estimate TSS for my outdoor rides because Strava won’t take the power data, I assume unless I subscribe to premium.
> 
> I found that there’s an option in GC that shows tss in the diary bit so you can see all tss values immediately. Still doesn’t show in the main reports though.



I have let my premium membership run out. From today's workout it loaded my power data, I am using a crank power meter not the trainer to record the data if that helps.


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## uclown2002 (29 Apr 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes but Inhave to estimate TSS for my outdoor rides because Strava won’t take the power data, I assume unless I subscribe to premium.
> 
> I found that there’s an option in GC that shows tss in the diary bit so you can see all tss values immediately. Still doesn’t show in the main reports though.


Strava free shows me power meter data from zwift and the occasional outside ride.


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## Tin Pot (29 Apr 2018)

uclown2002 said:


> Strava free shows me power meter data from zwift and the occasional outside ride.


Not for me. TR roads are always blank. The power section is paid for.


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## HLaB (30 Apr 2018)

HLaB said:


> Oh well hopefully I can start to get back on it.
> I did an FTP test today and its fallen by a 118w  to 137w  but given my current state that's probably about right my best TT power of the year was only 150w.
> I've been putting a lot of it down to stress, the resultant lack of training and a haemorrhoid but I've resolved the stress issue now and can star to rebuild.
> I've also realised that my decline started just after we moved office and doh I never really focused on the AC vent directly overhead. That and a colleagues fan on full blast is playing havoc with my immune system. I've focused too much on the stress. On warmer day's my head is boiling but the left side of my body (my colleagues side) is freezing and the right side is fine. Its causing a allergic reaction which has narrowed my nasal passage and throat and exercise over 85% of my max HR is closing too much. If I keep it below 70% I can go on all day. I'm going to be anti social on Monday and move my desk and hopefully that resolves it and lets me rebuild. My VO2 max says it all:
> ...


Agggh the only free desk is next to an overweight chap who sits there wit a thick body warmer on and has the fan on too and I'm only marginally further away from a AC vent :-(


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## Chappy (1 May 2018)

So Huxley was my workout today on TR. Never done that one before and bloody hell it was tough you spend all of your time a FTP then simulate attack sprints.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 May 2018)

On a rest week after completing TR’s Speciality Phase and a weekend 100km Audax. Good thing really as I’ve caught my youngest daughter’s cold and it has moved to my chest. Rotten kids. 

I think it’s shifting quick though. Hopefully was doing a 200km DIY on Saturday.


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## Tin Pot (1 May 2018)

Lower back gone this afternoon not long after a 10k run. Think it was holding the baby yesterday that strained it. Limped home from work.

Now lying on back on floor at home thinking about doing Dade -1 and the run to swim I’ve planned for tomorrow morning...

...maybe it’s time for some gin based analgaesic.


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## Chappy (1 May 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Lower back gone this afternoon not long after a 10k run. Think it was holding the baby yesterday that strained it. Limped home from work.
> 
> Now lying on back on floor at home thinking about doing Dade -1 and the run to swim I’ve planned for tomorrow morning...
> 
> ...maybe it’s time for some gin based analgaesic.




Take a rest day .You don't want to mess with your lower back. Mine used to go all the time and rushing back into training made it worse for longer .


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## Tin Pot (1 May 2018)

Chappy said:


> Take a rest day .You don't want to mess with your lower back. Mine used to go all the time and rushing back into training made it worse for longer .


Good advice.

THe only reason I’m considering it is because sometimes my bike position actually sorts it out.


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## HLaB (2 May 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Lower back gone this afternoon not long after a 10k run. Think it was holding the baby yesterday that strained it. Limped home from work.
> 
> Now lying on back on floor at home thinking about doing Dade -1 and the run to swim I’ve planned for tomorrow morning...
> 
> ...maybe it’s time for some gin based analgaesic.


 I hope it eased off over night!


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## Tin Pot (12 May 2018)

Right ho, how are we all doing then?

@Chappy I took the week off as I was practically immobile. 

Got back on it on Tuesday, put in a slightly daft triple day on Thursday, 70mins running, 30mins swimming, and 90mins on the turbo...fell apart on the turbo! 

Last session today and base training is over.


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## Chappy (12 May 2018)

I am still working through my specialty plan but I have modified it a bit so that the Saturday and Sunday rides are now done outside and I try to get as many hills in as possible. Luckily I live in Dorset so that's not hard.


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## HLaB (13 May 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Right ho, how are we all doing then?
> 
> @Chappy I took the week off as I was practically immobile.
> 
> ...


The low intensity stuff I'm doing seems to be bringing back my general fitness but I'm still not great against any resistance. I'll be glad when I get away from the office AC and the pollen season is over and I can get back to breathing normally. The scary thing the docs think I am but above about 80% max HR I don't feel that way


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## Heltor Chasca (13 May 2018)

Had two weeks ‘rest’ after completing my TR Speciality phase. A 200 Audax and usual school run duties done in that period. 

Monday I’ll start Round 2 of my time with TR. I gather I skip the Base Phase and go onto the Build Phase. Still deciding whether I’ll do the Sustained Power Build which I did last time or if I’ll try out the Half or Full Build Triathlon Build for something different. Audax is my cycling interest.


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## Tin Pot (14 May 2018)

Started Build phase on the Low Vol Half Tri plan.

FTP test. +3W

To say I’m disappointed would be about right. I had this same problem last season - FTP never changed after the first Base phase.

I added 5% to the workout, and finished the last 5 minutes another 20W above target.

I don’t know what to say, the maths adds up so I guess I just need to try harder during testing.

Il try the ramp test at the weekend.


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## Heltor Chasca (15 May 2018)

You can change your FTP manually if you think it will benefit you. I did a couple of times when I underperformed on the FTP test.

Today my FTP dropped 3% after a 2 week rest (aside from frequent school run rides and a 200km Audax. It was also very hot and I am post viral after a chest infection. I’m not disappointed.


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## Tin Pot (21 May 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> FTP test. +3W
> 
> To say I’m disappointed would be about right. I had this same problem last season - FTP never changed after the first Base phase.
> 
> ...



So! Much happier now 225 —> 243. 







243 is higher than my best last year, but as it’s a new protocol we’ll see how it goes but I’m definitely pleased


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## Tin Pot (26 May 2018)

I think the forum element is working now:
https://www.trainerroad.com/teams/7...-anyone-see-the-team-s-rides-in-recent-rides-


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## Tin Pot (30 May 2018)

Anyone else doing over/unders?

The plan I’m on is the first time I’ve had to do them - wow, what an eye opener!

Interval started at 230W for 2mins and I’m straight away thinking his is going to be hard to hold, steps up to 260W for 1min, now I’m thinking “crikey!”, but a few of these repeated and all of a sudden it becomes easier as your breathing rate settles and I kept his up for the 12mins before the break.

It’s weird, if it had been just a straight 230W 12min interval I think it would have felt harder...


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## huwsparky (30 May 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Anyone else doing over/unders?
> 
> The plan I’m on is the first time I’ve had to do them - wow, what an eye opener!
> 
> ...


You're not warming up properly.


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## Tin Pot (18 Jun 2018)

Midpoint of 2018...Roll call!

(Can’t remember who is in/out!)

@CXRAndy
@Joffey
@Asa Post
@MasterDabber
@HLaB
@Chappy
@WelshJon
@Shut Up Legs
@uclown2002
@steve292
@kipster
@simon walsh
@postman
@mythste
@r04DiE
@si_c
@johnnyb47
@Heltor Chasca
@huwsparky
@Shortandcrisp 
@YukonBoy
@elie.w


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## Heltor Chasca (18 Jun 2018)

In.


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## Chappy (18 Jun 2018)

I'm still here just done a taper week, and have just completed day 1 of a 3 day tour. After this I have a couple more outdoor rides then other taper week in preparation for Dartmoor. Currently my FTP has risen to 238.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Jun 2018)

FTP test this evening. 5% increase to 227 which I think is about right. That’s after 10km dragging myself around a client’s garden clipping lawns. 

Not training for anything. Just keeping the walrus from the door now I’m in my mid forties. Usual Audax rides and my first 300 in July to watch for.


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## uclown2002 (19 Jun 2018)

FTP of 306 watts @61.2 kg. Was 67kg IIRC when I did the test earlier this year, so need to have another crack soon. Pretty sure I can get very close to it or perhaps increase slightly.
Ride almost entirely on Zwift now using a Quarq dfour as the power source, which tracks very close to my Tacx Neo.
To be honest I don't any of the structured workouts in Zwift. I tend to race 3 or 4 times a week and do mostly Z2 on non race days.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Jun 2018)

Main events out the way so having down time away from structured training. Will pick up again in Autumn.


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## Tin Pot (20 Jun 2018)

uclown2002 said:


> *FTP of 306 watts @61.2 kg*. Was 67kg IIRC when I did the test earlier this year, so need to have another crack soon. Pretty sure I can get very close to it or perhaps increase slightly.
> Ride almost entirely on Zwift now using a Quarq dfour as the power source, which tracks very close to my Tacx Neo.
> To be honest I don't any of the structured workouts in Zwift. I tend to race 3 or 4 times a week and do mostly Z2 on non race days.



Approaching 5W/kg.


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## uclown2002 (20 Jun 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Approaching 5W/kg.


Yes that has been my long term goal - along with 6w/kg for 5 mins - hence the concerted effort to lose weight :-)


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## Tin Pot (20 Jun 2018)

uclown2002 said:


> Yes that has been my long term goal - along with 6w/kg for 5 mins - hence the concerted effort to lose weight :-)



I’m asking for lipo for my birthday - instant 4W/kg


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## Tin Pot (26 Jun 2018)

Doh. Three days off training due to work, now sick with a vomiting bug.

12 days to race day.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Jun 2018)

I am finding out there is a great benefit to be had by diverting to a week of easy, endurance rides on TrainerRoad a week before a 200 Audax at the weekend rather than sticking rigidly to their programs. Some of their sessions are way to tough before a long ride.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jun 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I am finding out there is a great benefit to be had by diverting to a week of easy, endurance rides on TrainerRoad a week before a 200 Audax at the weekend rather than sticking rigidly to their programs. Some of their sessions are way to tough before a long ride.


Speciality phase is where it eases back and gives you a proper taper...I’m still trying to do Build.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Jun 2018)

I'm doing the Descend phase at the moment.


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## Tin Pot (26 Jun 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I'm doing the Descend phase at the moment.



After July 8th I’ve got until September for the next (and same) race, just a little space to fit in Speciality.

What event are you up for next?


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Jun 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Speciality phase is where it eases back and gives you a proper taper...I’m still trying to do Build.



I’m on Build. Second round 67% of the way through. I’ll do a Speciality Phase as a late summer/early autumn and for the winter think about trying one of their TT programs.


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## HLaB (28 Jun 2018)

Ive not done much structured training in the last 3-4 months :-(


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## FGSMM205 (16 Jul 2018)

Hi guys! I'm doing a bit of market research into what cyclists (of all ages and abilities) look for in a training plan and I'm hoping you guys will be able to answer some questions for me, all feedback is greatly appreciated and will hopefully benefit you guys in the long run!

1: if you had to pick ONE factor that you would want to see improve as a result of a plan, what would it be? (e.g. lactate threshold, FTP, power:weight ratio etc)
2: how much would you be willing to spend on an annual training plan? 
3: what features would you like to see in a plan? (e.g. ability to design plans for multiple events across the season rather than one at a time?)
4: what do you think current plans are missing? 
5: how personal are the current plans you are on? are they tailored to you specifically or just the event, goal etc? 

Thanks guys, I have been checking out this page loads and you all seem really friendly and responsive so I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts!

Cheers


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## HLaB (16 Jul 2018)

HLaB said:


> Ive not done much structured training in the last 3-4 months :-(


I still haven't done much but I've a session tomorrow night its the same out doors session I did last week on the heavy Triban commuter and in between a TT. It was nothing special but I almost felt back to normal first lap (just a tad under powered). I got hit by a side wind though which knocked my confidence on the 2nd causing me to be to anxious and by time I got the confidence back it was over.

View: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/25498129


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## Chappy (17 Jul 2018)

I have ridden the Dartmoor Classic now so have put the structured training on hold for a few months. I want to ride my bike for a while with no data or specific target in mind to remind myself why i love cycling so much.


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## Heltor Chasca (17 Jul 2018)

FGSMM205 said:


> Hi guys! I'm doing a bit of market research into what cyclists (of all ages and abilities) look for in a training plan and I'm hoping you guys will be able to answer some questions for me, all feedback is greatly appreciated and will hopefully benefit you guys in the long run!
> 
> 1: if you had to pick ONE factor that you would want to see improve as a result of a plan, what would it be? (e.g. lactate threshold, FTP, power:weight ratio etc)
> 2: how much would you be willing to spend on an annual training plan?
> ...



It would be interesting to know more from you. You may get a warmer response. Briefly, in answer to your fairly open/vague questions:

1/ FTP and you can calculate most things from there. Don’t you need to be hooked into an oxygen device to measure lactate threshold?

2/Not annual because I want rest periods and a summer on the bike. £8/month max

3/None of these. I’m no coach and lack the know how. If I’m paying for a service I want YOU to do the leg work.

4/ I’m with TR. I can’t find any gaps.

5/ My program is geared towards my interest in Audax. This winter, just to try something different I may try the triathlon program. Purely for fun and to increase the torture.

Hope that helps. More of a background of YOU will help with response and help build a rapport. And reply to those who bother to help in your research. Good luck.


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## FGSMM205 (17 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> It would be interesting to know more from you. You may get a warmer response. Briefly, in answer to your fairly open/vague questions:
> 
> 1/ FTP and you can calculate most things from there. Don’t you need to be hooked into an oxygen device to measure lactate threshold?
> 
> ...



Hey Heltor, thanks for the response, much appreciated. 
I am a recent graduate of the University of Birmingham, I'm interning for a fitness company this summer before I start an MSc back in Birmingham. My company is interested in the current market of cycling training plans as we feel that it is an industry led by very few companies and something we would like to break in to. Our goal is to create training plans based on the *individual* rather than just the goal, taking into account things such as diet, working/childcare commitments, having multiple events to be training for etc. For example, a single parent working 9-5 may not have the time to clock up 100 mile weeks and so we are looking at alternative methods of improving desired physiological variables that have significant and substantial scientific evidence behind them. I hope this clears up where I am coming from! 

Thanks for answering, if you have any more ideas or suggestions of what you would want out of a training plan then please do let me know! 

Thanks and have a great day!


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## Tin Pot (17 Jul 2018)

I’ve held the faith for years, but now I’m saying “Balls to structured training!”

I’m doing outdoor, volume based training for the next two months.


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## Heltor Chasca (17 Jul 2018)

FGSMM205 said:


> Hey Heltor, thanks for the response, much appreciated.
> I am a recent graduate of the University of Birmingham, I'm interning for a fitness company this summer before I start an MSc back in Birmingham. My company is interested in the current market of cycling training plans as we feel that it is an industry led by very few companies and something we would like to break in to. Our goal is to create training plans based on the *individual* rather than just the goal, taking into account things such as diet, working/childcare commitments, having multiple events to be training for etc. For example, a single parent working 9-5 may not have the time to clock up 100 mile weeks and so we are looking at alternative methods of improving desired physiological variables that have significant and substantial scientific evidence behind them. I hope this clears up where I am coming from!
> 
> Thanks for answering, if you have any more ideas or suggestions of what you would want out of a training plan then please do let me know!
> ...



That sounds like an amazing placement. I am self employed and a single dad to two children so time is poor. Structured training is ideal for me on an indoor smart trainer as I can still do some family duties while on the bike. 

Structured training to me represents quality over volume and time which for me is ideal. I like to see my schedule and I like to pick apart my results and see a representation of my progress.

I like TrainerRoad in most ways except for the fact if I need to juggle stuff around. So in a a week proceeding an Audax at the weekend I like to do lower intensity rides rather than the scheduled hard sessions. I also may want a week of recovery rides after this events. It would be cool if I could schedule these sessions before hand, but all you can do is not do them and come back to the schedule when you are done.

I like TR’s new feature where you can add your outdoor rides to your career and monitor your FTP improvements etc.


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## huwsparky (17 Jul 2018)

FGSMM205 said:


> Hey Heltor, thanks for the response, much appreciated.
> I am a recent graduate of the University of Birmingham, I'm interning for a fitness company this summer before I start an MSc back in Birmingham. My company is interested in the current market of cycling training plans as we feel that it is an industry led by very few companies and something we would like to break in to. Our goal is to create training plans based on the *individual* rather than just the goal, taking into account things such as diet, working/childcare commitments, having multiple events to be training for etc. For example, a single parent working 9-5 may not have the time to clock up 100 mile weeks and so we are looking at alternative methods of improving desired physiological variables that have significant and substantial scientific evidence behind them. I hope this clears up where I am coming from!
> 
> Thanks for answering, if you have any more ideas or suggestions of what you would want out of a training plan then please do let me know!
> ...


Exactly what kind of company are we talking about?

Effectively, the service you're talking about providing is a coaching service of which a training plan is as part of. Nothing new here, there are plenty of coaching companies for cycling, triathlon etc which would obviously be working on the basis of time available to train taking into account all the issues you highlight above. The main problem you'd have in taking my money off me is I'd rather put my trust/money into a coach who's been there and done it at a proven decent level. What expertise do you have in power data analysis etc?


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## FGSMM205 (18 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> That sounds like an amazing placement. I am self employed and a single dad to two children so time is poor. Structured training is ideal for me on an indoor smart trainer as I can still do some family duties while on the bike.
> 
> Structured training to me represents quality over volume and time which for me is ideal. I like to see my schedule and I like to pick apart my results and see a representation of my progress.
> 
> ...



Yeah it's a great place to be involved with! 
It sounds like you're a busy person, it's admirable that you're able to fit in your training at all. 
I agree that seeing the detailed results and progression is great and probably one of the best motivators to carry on training. Do you use a HR monitor on your rides? 

What you've mentioned about plan flexibility is a great point, it would be nice to be able to select your event date and then freely move sessions around to days that suit you and your specific requirements. 

Thanks again for the replies, Heltor!


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## FGSMM205 (18 Jul 2018)

huwsparky said:


> Exactly what kind of company are we talking about?
> 
> Effectively, the service you're talking about providing is a coaching service of which a training plan is as part of. Nothing new here, there are plenty of coaching companies for cycling, triathlon etc which would obviously be working on the basis of time available to train taking into account all the issues you highlight above. The main problem you'd have in taking my money off me is I'd rather put my trust/money into a coach who's been there and done it at a proven decent level. What expertise do you have in power data analysis etc?



Hey, huwsparky, thanks for the reply. 
Unfortunately I am unable to divulge the company under instruction from my seniors. 
Rather than offering an entirely new training plan service, we are looking more to serve as a resource that customers could use alongside their training plans which would personalise the plans further rather than just using a bog-standard "FTP boost program" or "improve your average speed program". It would involve lifestyle and physiological measurements that might reveal certain strengths and weaknesses for each individual that they could then use to inform how they train. Essentially: train smarter, not harder. 
Hope this clears it up a bit for you! 
Thanks
FGSMM205


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## Heltor Chasca (18 Jul 2018)

FGSMM205 said:


> Do you use a HR monitor on your rides?!



Yes. I don’t/can’t afford a power meter on my actual bike so I pace myself on long rides of 100-300km with my HRM. These are Audax events so this information is sufficient as well as time and average speed. A power meter would just be really interesting data. Strava gives me power guesstimates. If I was doing TTs, hill climbing or the like, then a power meter would be more important.

The power measurement on my Wahoo Kickr is accurate for the purposes of structured training.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> After July 8th I’ve got until September for the next (and same) race, just a little space to fit in Speciality.
> 
> What event are you up for next?



Nothing big till PBP next year. But got an Alps 100 cols in a week tour coming up in Sept. So been finding some long hills to practice pacing up and descending at speed. Plus also been out on the forest main tracks (what might be called gravel riding these days) to improve bike handing and dealing with loose surfaces both climbing and in descent at speed.

So in other words stuff you only get from riding real world stuff and not from a turbo.


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## Tin Pot (18 Jul 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Nothing big till PBP next year. But got an Alps 100 cols in a week tour coming up in Sept. So been finding some long hills to practice pacing up and descending at speed. Plus also been out on the forest main tracks (what might be called gravel riding these days) to improve bike handing and dealing with loose surfaces both climbing and in descent at speed.
> 
> So in other words stuff you only get from riding real world stuff and not from a turbo.



Sounds great  Would love to ride the Alps some day.

I’m determined to destroy the Hever Castle route so I’m going to ride it or parts of it every week until race day. I might still do one turbo a week as it’s convenient and easier for TT position training.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Jul 2018)

Probably bring turbo back in to the plan once it has cooled down and the days are short again.


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## HLaB (27 Jul 2018)

My interval sessions on the busway on a Tuesday seem to be going well but I much prefer my own continuous Threshold sessions on it and they seem to be going well too. I've been back to sprinting up drags without a tightening of the chest. (Castle Street is the steepest but only 3% for less than a 1/5 of mile). I've been doing that on the heavy Triban. I'd be curious to do it on a lighter bike with a power meter just to see the stats. I might do an adhoc session on the turbo with the power meter next week if it cools down because I am 5 stats junkie


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## Tin Pot (13 Aug 2018)

...And I’m back in the room!

Jacks +1 and it’s was quite tough, but not unmanageable. 8min intervals at 105% FTP.

I’m pushing much more watts on my outdoor rides, but the challenge now is to reduce the intensity and smooth out my outdoor rides in preparation for the race.

Each commute ride (2-4 per week) is around 125TSS, I need it more like 90. Will try keeping it below FTP all the way for once, coasting the down hills more often.


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## HLaB (18 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> ...And I’m back in the room!
> 
> Jacks +1 and it’s was quite tough, but not unmanageable. 8min intervals at 105% FTP.
> 
> ...


I've bought a cheap triban for work and there' no way I'd put a power meter on it so I'm going off HR for TSS and TrainingPeaks reckons that my commutes (29 miles round) have TSS between 60 and 80, depending upon the intensity. Ive been doing an 8min Threshold, barrier dodge the 5mins VO2max. Although I don't think I've been pushing hard enough on the VO2 max intervals combined with some turbo intervals where I do push hard enough (I'm not worried about crashing), the sessions seem to be doing me good, if Strava is to be believed. The graph does seem to replicate my form; last summer I was going well and built on it and felt good to Dec. Then I got the Flu and I had to rebuild which went well til the February then it all started to go down hill. I'm rebuilding just now.


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## Cuchilo (31 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> I’ve held the faith for years, but now I’m saying “Balls to structured training!”
> 
> I’m doing outdoor, volume based training for the next two months.


Not read the whole thread but dipped in as i am starting structured training for 2019 TT season .
I've done the out door volume based training for the last three years and have PBs of 23;27 10 mile . 1;03;22 25 mile and 2;24;23 50 mile . I didn't beat those times this year so thought i'd try something new .
Did you find structure wasn't working ? Maybe both of us switching the training will have the desired effects for us both ?


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## huwsparky (1 Sep 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Not read the whole thread but dipped in as i am starting structured training for 2019 TT season .
> I've done the out door volume based training for the last three years and have PBs of 23;27 10 mile . 1;03;22 25 mile and 2;24;23 50 mile . I didn't beat those times this year so thought i'd try something new .
> Did you find structure wasn't working ? Maybe both of us switching the training will have the desired effects for us both ?


Are you looking to specialise at any perticular distance? If you've got a distance in mind and want to be the best you can be at it you'll set your plan around that. Looking at your times I take it you prefer the 10's?


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## Cuchilo (1 Sep 2018)

I prefer 25's for open event , only really do 10's as my club runs them in the evening . 
The answer to your question is no , no target distance . Fast at all of them and then maybe look at going for other events .


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Nov 2018)

After a break and not much riding over last four weeks I jumped on Turbo for first time since April. (I tend to reserve turbo for colder months). No FTP retest or target just took one of my lower volume base workouts (after warmup) to see where I am at. It wasn't too bad and enjoyed listening to a IWPR podcast whilst riding. Managed to do all the intervals and complete it. Normalised power 185 watts which is not suprisingly lower than where I have been over summer but I happy enough to be there given my lack of recent hard riding and deliberate break. Main thing was I enjoyed the session and had a good workout.

Maybe time to start a Structured training 2019 thread. I am going to spend the next couple of weeks getting used to turbo again, with a ftp retest at end of that. Plus I will start to put together a plan starting with a new base period.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Nov 2018)

I had a crazy TR work out on Friday. (Spanish Needle) 1h 30 mins at 150% of ftp consisting of 99 sprints! Nuts. Completely nuts, but I did it and even achieved my highest surge of 716 watts.

My daughter had to watch Dan TDM with her headphones on.


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## HLaB (25 Nov 2018)

Got health sorted last month and did an FTP test on Thursday night to see where I was. Well that was the plan but I had a sore stomach keeping me up the night before and got out to a p'ture after work so I only had time for a couple of pieces of Soreen. So on a near empty and stomach and pacing myself so as not to irritate I ended up with 228w (241w for 20mins) which was only 27w below my best and this was without my HR going into zone 5 and only 87% intensity so I was pretty happy. It seems to have kickstarted my coach into thinking about a training plan. On the Saturday I also went out on his training ride although I did struggle to half way after which I went solo for 8miles and took a short cut  My new avio power meter claimed to do 323w for the 20 min max. Comparing it too my other power meter it reads about 20w higher though so if its correct gives me an outdoor FTP of 288w which is a 33w improvement on the indoor best. The Avio is affected a fair bit by the temperature though but what do you expect for £250. It did seem nice and stable if a little high on the training ride when the temp only varied 1deg.


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## huwsparky (26 Nov 2018)

@HLaB - is there a reason you're using two different power meters? Seems kind of odd where consistency of data is literally everything.


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## HLaB (26 Nov 2018)

huwsparky said:


> @HLaB - is there a reason you're using two different power meters? Seems kind of odd where consistency of data is literally everything.


Money. I'm using my Be Pro for training/ structure or pacing any outdoor TT's as I've confidence in it. The avio is just a curiosity on my other bike couldn't really justify anything more expensive just now or for a bit.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Dec 2018)

Worked on a 1 and a half hour TrainerRoad sprint ride yesterday. Crumbs it was tough. Managed a few personal records though: Cranking it up to 941 watts was one of them.


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## JhnBssll (1 Dec 2018)

I started some structured training using Zwift about 2 months ago after minor surgery to my left leg. I did my first ever FTP test to start the ball rolling which resulted in an initial FTP of 197W. I then started the beginner FTP builder plan on Zwift and re-tested 6 weeks later. I didn't really know what to expect but could tell I had made improvements and was pleased with a result of 241W  I'm now about to start week 3 of a new 5 week FTP builder plan so I'll be re-testing at the end of December ready to start afresh in January  I have to say I'm really enjoying the structured format and personal challenge, although yesterday's 1hr 26min tempo session started to hurt near the end 

I'm quite a big guy so I need to get my power figures high to balance out my weight. I'll be dieting again after Christmas but realistically I'll still be over 90kg even when trimmed down  I'm 106 at the moment, I was 103 before I started the structured training and I've lost weight around my middle so can only assume my muscle mass has gone up


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Dec 2018)

Interrupted mid-interval by a knock at the door from Royal Mail last week. Greeted our postie in a sweating, heaving, semi-naked heap. I had to sign for a package marked, ‘Live Insects’. 

No post since.


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## Milzy (4 Dec 2018)

What can I achieve at 63 kg then? I’m 230 now but due a re-test. 


huwsparky said:


> If you've been a regular cyclist for years, you won't get to 300w from where you are in a year as you're probably at your plateau. 300w to a 75kg person is pretty much achievable to anyone who sets their mind to it. The key to any plan you set yourself is consistency. No point doing a 3 month TR plan or whatever and then letting it all slip when your urge to completing the workouts isn't there. 10% in a year would be a good benchmark imo.


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## huwsparky (4 Dec 2018)

Milzy said:


> What can I achieve at 63 kg then? I’m 230 now but due a re-test.


Guess it depends how much you're willing to put into it and what kind of plan you're following. Start with a re-test to get your zones as accurate as possible, then decide on a plan and stick to it if improving is your goal.


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## Heltor Chasca (7 Dec 2018)

Can anyone masticate and spit out for me the difference between ERG mode and RESISTANCE please?

I have been using my Kickr Snap in ERG mode for nearly a year. I have only just read that you should be taking your FTP Ramp Test in resistance mode, then they recommend you do your training in ERG mode as you don’t have to concentrate much. I am aware that in ERG, the slower you pedal the more resistance the machine generates so you are keeping to your target power. In resistance mode you will have to shift gears or pedal faster to generate the higher power target numbers.

That’s all I understand. In this 5 minutes I am really enjoying resistance mode although you need more brain power to stay on target which isn’t mindfully as relaxing, but I find it physically more enjoyable. I am just worried I am losing out on the quality of the workout.

Thanks.


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## huwsparky (12 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Can anyone masticate and spit out for me the difference between ERG mode and RESISTANCE please?
> 
> I have been using my Kickr Snap in ERG mode for nearly a year. I have only just read that you should be taking your FTP Ramp Test in resistance mode, then they recommend you do your training in ERG mode as you don’t have to concentrate much. I am aware that in ERG, the slower you pedal the more resistance the machine generates so you are keeping to your target power. In resistance mode you will have to shift gears or pedal faster to generate the higher power target numbers.
> 
> ...


In ERG mode the trainer sticks to a power figure, you pedal as fast or as slow as your like but the trainer will take care of the resistance keeping it as whatever it needs to be for whatever power output chosen (If that makes sense). 

In theory, if you did an FTP test in erg mode the power would be whatever you set it to in ERG.


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## HLaB (15 Dec 2018)

Milzy said:


> What can I achieve at 63 kg then? I’m 230 now but due a re-test.


Its not scientific but at my peak last year, a 62kg 41 year old hit 255w so you can do at least that and, I hope its not my ceiling however.


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## Milzy (15 Dec 2018)

HLaB said:


> Its not scientific but at my peak last year, a 62kg 41 year old hit 255w so you can do at least that and, I hope its not my ceiling however.


I need to do a test but I might try a ramp test instead of 20 mins one. There’s also the 10 min one.


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## HLaB (15 Dec 2018)

Milzy said:


> I need to do a test but I might try a ramp test instead of 20 mins one. There’s also the 10 min one.


My coach used to base his training plans around a 5mins test but I'm not sure the relation ship to FTP. He had me going off an FTP of 265w when my 5mins best was 332w with virtual power (80%). A real power meter has only recorded 313w so by 80%, FTP = 250w which isn't far off the 255w from the 20mins test (4.3w / kg)


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## huwsparky (15 Dec 2018)

HLaB said:


> My coach used to base his training plans around a 5mins test but I'm not sure the relation ship to FTP. He had me going off an FTP of 265w when my 5mins best was 332w with virtual power (80%). A real power meter has only recorded 313w so by 80%, FTP = 250w which isn't far off the 255w from the 20mins test (4.3w / kg)


Get another coach.


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## HLaB (15 Dec 2018)

huwsparky said:


> Get another coach.


Why?


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## huwsparky (15 Dec 2018)

@HLaB because he hasn't even explained to you his coaching methods by what you've written above.


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## HLaB (15 Dec 2018)

huwsparky said:


> @HLaB because he hasn't even explained to you his coaching methods by what you've written above.


Probably because I never asked him.


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## OnTheRopes (17 Dec 2018)

I have not tried the ramp test yet, but Dr Stephen Lane who has been working on this does himself say it is good to use as a_* strategy for pacing for the 20 minute test*_ so therefore not necessarily to replace the 20 minute test.
One of it's advantages I guess is that is is seen as easier so therefore more likely that people will repeat it, though my personal experience of doing a lab based VO2 max ramp test was that it is not so pleasant.
The other thing he says is you need to do a test for the trainer and a test for the road and you can't really do a ramp test on the road.


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## CXRAndy (17 Dec 2018)

i like the ramp test. It stops you going out too hard compared to non erg 20 min test. You're lead into the test with pre fatigue steps. Then as you reach your ftp step, the real work begins. Hold on then, and try to keep consistent pace . Once you've got to 120,130,140 and if lucky 150% of ftp, every part of your body will be crying to stop.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Dec 2018)

Another session on turbo tonight. Not part of a training plan yet. Just getting used to being on turbo again. Plan being put together to start after new year is out the way. Starting with early base.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Dec 2018)

A session of aerobic capacity intervals today. Just a low doze as I get back in to it.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Dec 2018)

Will do fresh ftp and AC tests in the new year.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Dec 2018)

Sweet spot pyramids today. Listening to cycling podcast "Can cycling save the world?"


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## Nebulous (24 Dec 2018)

I started cycling seriously about 8 years ago, quite late in life at 48, pushed it hard to see what I could do, but I've never had much structure to it. I tend to do everything flat out - with a 35 - 50 mile loop being my comfort zone. I've been far too erratic, capable of doing 400 miles in 3 weeks and then 60 in the next month. 

Over the winter I've traditionally mixed some road riding with sitting on a gym bike, again with little structure and again pushing everything very hard. 

I've just got a smart trainer and am doing one of the training plans on zwift, an ftp builder. I've been frustrated by the limitations it places on me, for recovery between sessions and for specific rest days, which is difficult to fit into my work and personal life, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the variety of sessions. I'm also surprised that some of the sessions can be quite challenging without pushing so hard. Today for instance was a foundation session 3mins at 190 watts, 5 mins at 155w, 2 mins at 115w and repeat 5 times. With 10 min warm-up and the same for cool-down that was an hour and 10 minutes in total. It gives me longer warm-ups and cool-downs than I normally do.

The proof will be whether it works, but I'm now at the beginning of week 4 out of 5. 

I've decided my interests lie in audax events, so if I can reach my first event in the spring fitter and lighter than I did this year that will be worth it.


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## Heltor Chasca (24 Dec 2018)

Nebulous said:


> I started cycling seriously about 8 years ago, quite late in life at 48, pushed it hard to see what I could do, but I've never had much structure to it. I tend to do everything flat out - with a 35 - 50 mile loop being my comfort zone. I've been far too erratic, capable of doing 400 miles in 3 weeks and then 60 in the next month.
> 
> Over the winter I've traditionally mixed some road riding with sitting on a gym bike, again with little structure and again pushing everything very hard.
> 
> ...



Brilliant! 

I was smitten by the Audax bug two seasons ago and I’m slowly chipping away. I also started using a turbo a year ago. I am not familiar with Zwift, but if flexibility is a restriction, TrainerRoad is fantastic due to its calendar function and plethora of programs and workouts which can fit into almost anyone’s life.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2018)

Another session of AC intervals. Quite late today as had to let Boxing day four course meal go down. Structured plan starts next week.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2018)

A set of Lactate Threshold intervals of low volume. Went well and my economy seems to be improving. Plan now is a 2-3 hour ride tomorrow then I will do an AC retest followed by a FTP retest on New Years Eve. Then I will be all set to kick off my 2019 structured training on the 2nd or 3rd of Jan.

Did a 30 second plank today. Next years plan includes strength build and maintain phases. My core is rubbish so I am starting to address that in the new plan.


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## TwistedParsnip (28 Dec 2018)

if anyone wants to see my regime for 2019 check out. my new post


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2018)

TwistedParsnip said:


> if anyone wants to see my regime for 2019 check out. my new post



There is a 2019 structured training thread if you want to join in. It will run for the whole year and helps us motivate each other.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

About 2.5 hours out on the recumbent. There are eight hills on the circuit soma good opportunity to get the heart rate up then relax once it flattens again. Nice and quiet out there with just a few vehicles and road cyclists coming the opposite way.

Then a 30 second plank after my shower.


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