# Had my first MTB ride yesterday.....N+1 on the horizon



## Typhon (24 Feb 2013)

So I started road cycling about 6 months ago and I've really enjoyed it but recently I've just felt like mixing it up a bit and doing something different. Living in a small village at the bottom of a 1000 foot hill with many dirt trails leading up to the summit off-roading is something I've always thought about so yesterday I decided to take the plunge. I dug out an ancient steel Raleigh rigid from the garage and cycled across the fields/bridalways and up the hill and it was just fantastic  The bike is a wreck, at least four sizes too small for me and only 4 of the 24 gears work but it was great fun even though that made it very hard work.

I've been bitten by the bug and I can definitely see myself MTB-ing in future. I'm tempted to buy a full sussy but it would be a waste if I used it infrequently so I think a hardtail in the region of £500-£600 would be a good starting point (I definitely need some suspension, the rigid was not kind to my back!)

The only problem is I have no idea about mountain bikes so I could really do with some advice please. Will that kind of price range get me a good one? Should I spend a bit more or would spending a bit less not make much difference? It's not so much that I have a budget, I just don't like to waste money. For my road bike I bought a Triban 3 even though I was planning to spend more simply because it was such good value for money and I didn't think bikes that were £100-200 more expensive were any better.

I've done a little bit of research online and apparently the Apollo Kraken has really good spec for the money? I know it's Halfords but my local branch is great. Plus I believe I get an extra 10% off with my British Cycling membership.There's also this Boardman which is pretty lightweight compared to what I've seen.

Only problem with those might be that the largest sizes are 19" and 20" and I am 6'2" with short legs (31" inside leg) and a long body.So I would imagine I would need a larger frame, perhaps 21.5"?

I've also looked at Decathlon's Rock Rider 8.1 but I fall right between the sizes for that. Same problem with Cannondale and Specialized too.

Trek's ranges look pretty good and two of my local bike stores stock Trek. The 4300 looks good and is in the right sort of price range and they do a 21.5" frame so I'm tempted to go and have a look at that tomorrow.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## Peteaud (24 Feb 2013)

I ride both road and MTB (prefere road) and have both types of bike.

I can recommend trek (i have a 6500) but also the spesh is a nice bike.

The rockriders are also good value.

Go have a ride of the trek, the 4000 range are good.


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## Typhon (24 Feb 2013)

That's the good thing with Trek as my LBS has it, I can take one for a ride around the kind of roads I will be cycling on. Whereas with CAD/Spesh/Decathlon it means a 100 mile round trip and then cycling around a city centre which doesn't give me much of an indication of what it's like going through a forest with a 14% gradient!

I guess I can't go too far wrong with a brand like Trek as they seem to be rated from what I've seen.


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## Peteaud (24 Feb 2013)

Typhon said:


> That's the good thing with Trek as my LBS has it, I can take one for a ride around the kind of roads I will be cycling on. Whereas with CAD/Spesh/Decathlon it means a 100 mile round trip and then cycling around a city centre which doesn't give me much of an indication of what it's like going through a forest with a 14% gradient!
> 
> I guess I can't go too far wrong with a brand like Trek as they seem to be rated from what I've seen.


 
I have 2 Trek bikes and the wife also has a Trek.

I do really rate them and would buy another without a doubt.

I also think it is better to go and have a ride on the bike and speak to the dealer.

Go and have a play....


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## Typhon (24 Feb 2013)

Don't worry I will, I'll head there tomorrow if I can finish work early enough.


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## Cubist (24 Feb 2013)

At 6'2" you're about right for a large, (19, 20 inch bike). Don't get hung up on frame sizing, as MTBs can be ultra compact, but adjusted via cockpit/finishing kit. They are designed to run with loads of seatpost showing. Standover is more important than seat tube length. 

If you like you Triban, check Decathlon's Rockriders. The Boardman or a number of the Halfords Carreras are decent value, but, I hate to say it, the Apollo's just don't cut it in terms of quality.


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## Typhon (25 Feb 2013)

Cubist said:


> At 6'2" you're about right for a large, (19, 20 inch bike). Don't get hung up on frame sizing, as MTBs can be ultra compact, but adjusted via cockpit/finishing kit. They are designed to run with loads of seatpost showing. Standover is more important than seat tube length.
> 
> If you like you Triban, check Decathlon's Rockriders. The Boardman or a number of the Halfords Carreras are decent value, but, I hate to say it, the Apollo's just don't cut it in terms of quality.


 
Ah ok thanks. I did find the frame sizing slightly confusing as 19" is 48cm which would be miniscule on a road bike. I guess the best thing to do is to try them out for myself. Is there anything I should look out for to know if the bike feels right? Like with road bikes, how the axle is supposed to be in line with the handlebars when you're on the hoods. That sort of thing.

I've actually had quite a few problems with my Triban and have had to keep taking it back to Decathlon which is 100 mile trip which puts me off the Rockriders a bit. I'm quite tempted by the Boardman, partly because it looks great and seems lightweight for a hardtail but also I want something a bit different. What ptus me off the Specialized range is that I'm probably going to buy a Roubaix sometime soon so I'd like the MTB to be a different brand.


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## rudis_dad (25 Feb 2013)

> Ah ok thanks. I did find the frame sizing slightly confusing as 19" is 48cm which would be miniscule on a road bike.


 
Rule of thumb is - road bike frame = inside leg measurement minus 9 inches; mtb frame = inside leg measurement minus 14 inches. Don't forget that the BB on an MTB is usually a lot higher than a road bike. Smaller frames are easier to chuck about but will usually have a correspondingly shorter top tube so if you go too small the cockpit may feel cramped.

MTB frames generally have slacker geometry than road frames depending upon what type of MTB you're looking at - but even a full-on XC race machine will have a significantly slacker angles than a road bike. Too long a stem can throw your weight too far forward which will a) make the steering feel twitchy and b) make the bike feel like it's going to pitch you over the bars on steep descents. Neither is desirable.



> I guess the best thing to do is to try them out for myself. Is there anything I should look out for to know if the bike feels right?


 
You've hit the nail on the head. TBH, until you know what you're looking at/for I'd steer clear of Halfrauds/Decathlon/other chain stores. Find a reputable LBS where the staff are MTBers themselves and enthusiastic for it.

By advised that at your price point, the two things that will let the bike down are a) budget suspension which at best is shocking (no pun intended); and b) machine-built and heavy wheels shod with inadequate tyres. Look to buy a decent quality frame and plan to upgrade as and when you decide that you want to get further into it.


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## Typhon (25 Feb 2013)

rudis_dad said:


> Rule of thumb is - road bike frame = inside leg measurement minus 9 inches; mtb frame = inside leg measurement minus 14 inches. Don't forget that the BB on an MTB is usually a lot higher than a road bike. Smaller frames are easier to chuck about but will usually have a correspondingly shorter top tube so if you go too small the cockpit may feel cramped.
> 
> MTB frames generally have slacker geometry than road frames depending upon what type of MTB you're looking at - but even a full-on XC race machine will have a significantly slacker angles than a road bike. Too long a stem can throw your weight too far forward which will a) make the steering feel twitchy and b) make the bike feel like it's going to pitch you over the bars on steep descents. Neither is desirable.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply. That's answered a lot of questions for me. I've just got back from my LBS and the guy said the same as you did in your last paragraph about the lack of quality in the suspension and wheels/tyres at the price point when I was looking at. When I told him where I'm intending to ride it he looked horrified and said that a bike at that price point wouldn't be suitable for that. That's the benefit of an LBS I suppose, the guy I spoke to regularly mountain bikes up that hill himself and knew all the names of the climbs. The gradients are fairly steep (10% average but steeper in places) and the trails are pretty rough.

He said for that kind of riding I would need a hardtail in the region of £700-£1000 which is getting pretty expensive. My road bike which I use regularly was only £300! A concern with that would be that if I really got into it I would want a full suspension bike and then I've got a hardtail that cost the best part of a grand just sitting there.

He said they had a Trek EX8 on offer, down from £2300 to £1750 but it's a lot of money to spend. I'd hate to spend that and then not use it enough to justify it. But then again, I live in the countryside. I can cycle down the road and get straight onto a farm track and then it's a single track road for about 3 miles and I can start going up the hill I mentioned earlier, which is brilliant off roading. Plus we have the Malverns and the Cotswolds on our doorstep so it's not as if it's a hardship to ride it or would require much effort. Besides I really enjoyed the sense of freedom and it was nice to have a change from road cycling. Sometimes I just don't feel like dealing with cars, especially when the school run is on!

Decisions decisions.


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## Typhon (25 Feb 2013)

Doing some research the EX8 seems very highly rated, including being trail bike of the year contender on bike radar. One of the things that keeps cropping up is what a good climber it is, which is probably the most important factor for me living in the area that I do. I reckon the vast majority of the riding I will be doing is up/down 10% average gradients.

£550 off just because it's a few months out of date and the new bike is probably hardly better, if any. So tempting. I did say in my OP that I go for value for money above all else...


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## rudis_dad (25 Feb 2013)

> When I told him where I'm intending to ride it he looked horrified and said that a bike at that price point wouldn't be suitable for that.


 
Absolute tosh - you can ride any bike anywhere if you put your mind to it. The only reason he told you this was because


> He said they had a Trek EX8 on offer, down from £2300 to £1750


. It's probably been hanging around for ages and he wants rid of it.

If it was me, £500 is the absolute minimum - it's enough to get you a basic, no frills bike which will allow you to dip your toe in the water. The only caveat is, don't expect miracles.

There is no doubt that a bike costing £2000 is going to outlast and outperform one that costs £500 - its down to quality of components and the amount of R&D that's gone into designing and building it that counts. There are perfect;y good, capable bikes out there in your price range - once you've whetted your appetite, then its up to you to decide if you want to pursue it further.


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## Typhon (25 Feb 2013)

To be fair he only mentioned the one on offer in passing and only after I mentioned that a more expensive hardtail would probably just lead me to want a full suspension bike in the future! He was showing me the hardtails around £700-£800 before that.

When I said it wouldn't be suitable what I meant was that he was concerned that a £500 bike wouldn't last long with me doing rough forest trails. I know that with salespeople there's always an element of trying to sell something more expensive but it's a relatively new shop and I think he was concerned that if the bike didn't last that I would be dissatisfied and as word of mouth is so important with these things, especially in this small rural area it would hurt his business in the long run.

The problem with dipping my toe in the water is that it does become quite an expensive dip as if I did want a full suspension bike in future I'd probably just sell the hardtail for half what I bought it for. I think the worst case scenario with the bike is that I just use it once or twice a week to go up the local hills here as a break from road cycling and don't go further afield as I'd like but still that's not too bad. I can justify the cost to myself for that.


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## Peteaud (25 Feb 2013)

Go to another LBS

The salesman is talking utter bullocks.

A mate has a £300 Giant Revel thats been round Cwncarn and haldon amongst other and he is no lightweigh, rides a few times a week and has had no problems.

I would ride a trek 4000 series anywhere.

Go to another bike shop.


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## 02GF74 (25 Feb 2013)

Typhon said:


> I did find the frame sizing slightly confusing as 19" is 48cm which would be miniscule on a road bike.


 
You are not comparing like with like. Take the two frames and measure the top tube horizontally and you will find they are pretty close to bneing the same. The mtb frame has a top tube that slopes much more at the bike, the reason is that you can quite often need to leap of the bike and you do not want to be bashing your gentlemen's dangly bits against the frame.

As I said before, look on ebay for decent s/h bike - you will get more masng for your £1.

19 inch frame will be spot on for you.


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## Typhon (25 Feb 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Go to another LBS
> 
> The salesman is talking utter bullocks.
> 
> ...


 
Fair enough, I guess even if it doesn't last forever on those routes, I'll have cycled enough to want a full suspension by then anyway! The Trek 4300 is what initially caught me eye and is in a much more acceptable price range to me. There is another store further away that does Trek and also Specialized so I think I'll pop in there.

To be honest, before going into that LBS I went into Halfords as I needed something for the car anyway and sat on a Boardman MTB comp.  The sales assistant didn't tell me anything about the bike, as you'd expect with Halfords but it was noticeably lighter than any of the other bikes I tried that day and it looks great and from what I can tell has a relatively good spec. Maybe sometimes it's easier not to have the advice and just buy it and ride off without worrying too much.  I mean it's not as if Boardman bikes are bad bikes.



02GF74 said:


> You are not comparing like with like. Take the two frames and measure the top tube horizontally and you will find they are pretty close to bneing the same. The mtb frame has a top tube that slopes much more at the bike, the reason is that you can quite often need to leap of the bike and you do not want to be bashing your gentlemen's dangly bits against the frame.
> 
> As I said before, look on ebay for decent s/h bike - you will get more masng for your £1.
> 
> 19 inch frame will be spot on for you.


 
I'm really confused over sizing now. I just found out my old wreck of a MTB is 19.5" and it feels way too small. I have the seatpost up to the max and the bike just feels cramped. In the store the guy suggested 22.5" in the Trek and tbh that did feel big but the 21.5" I sat on before that felt about right for me. But then again in halfords the 19" boardman comp felt fine, although that is their largest size so I guess the bikes are just bigger than the sizes suggest. 

I wouldn't feel confident buying second hand as I just don't know enough about bikes - and nothing about mountain bikes, to know how good nick it's in.


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## Peteaud (25 Feb 2013)

Typhon said:


> I'm really confused over sizing now. I just found out my old wreck of a MTB is 19.5" and it feels way too small. I have the seatpost up to the max and the bike just feels cramped. In the store the guy suggested 22.5" in the Trek and tbh that did feel big but the 21.5" I sat on before that felt about right for me. But then again in halfords the 19" boardman comp felt fine, although that is their largest size so I guess the bikes are just bigger than the sizes suggest.
> 
> n.


 

Thats why you really need to ride them.

Different manufacturers = different sizes, as with clothing etc.

Boardman are good bikes.


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## Motozulu (25 Feb 2013)

It is'nt a given that you will need a full suspension bike - unless you intend some serious down hill riding. I'd say most red trails in the country are entirely rideable on a decent hard tail. The full boinger is a choice thing, not a necessity thing. As for the Boardman MTB's - brilliant bikes.


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## Tango (25 Feb 2013)

Apollo bikes just aren't up to the job and my experience with halfords is that they aren't up to the job either.

Having said that the voodoo Bantu they sell is a sound bike for not much over £300. But get someone else to set it up unless you are confident in the skills at your local halfrauds 

It's very easy to be lured into the spend spend spend trap, I know I am sort of there looking out

The main thing is to get a bike you enjoy riding and get out and have some fun


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## 02GF74 (25 Feb 2013)

in olden times, the frame size was from centre of bottom bracket, along the seat tube to the mid point of where the top tube joined it; nowadays it is to the top of the seat tube.

... bu anyways, as I think I said earlier, it is the top tube, measure orizontally that is the more important dimension,

some frames e.g. Kona have short seat tube with a lot of slope so you woulkd be lookking at a frame 12inch smaller, whereas Cube are the opposite so you would be looking at a frame 12 inch larger.

here is how to measure the top tube horizontally.:


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## MacB (25 Feb 2013)

Personally I know my riding is a long way from reaching, if ever, anything I need full sus for and I'm slow enough(often my deliberate choice) that even front sus isn't really needed. But I do understand the power of the mind and when someone is smitten. Just reading this thread and following your chain of thought I can only see you being happy on a full sus. Your mind's heading that way and it seems as if any hardtail you bought you'd always be thinking what if.

That doesn't mean I think FS is the right technical choice but, unless you test ride enough to persuade yourself otherwise, it is for your current mindset....if you know what I mean.


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## bianchi1 (28 Feb 2013)

Typhoon, if you are in pershore are you using echelon cycles? 

Not sure that they deal with mountain bikes but it might be worth an ask, they know their stuff and have always happy to help with advice/stuff whenever I have needed anything.

Otherwise "back on track" bikes in Malvern have a good reputation.


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## akb (28 Feb 2013)

I brought a Spesh RockHopper last April for £600. Use it regualarly (once a week) around the local trials and also the local Woburn Sands and Chicksands bike park trails. Also use it as the winter commuter. Have had no problems at all. A great starter MTB imo. £500-600 should get you a decent MTB to learn the skills required. I doubt I will ever upgrade my Rockhopper for what I use it for. It suits me fine.


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## Typhon (13 Mar 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've been mulling things over these past couple of weeks and have made a decision. When I made the OP I was originally looking at hardtails in the £500-600 range as I think that'll be enough for what I want but the guy in the other bike shop swayed me towards a full sussy. After reading your replies though I think my original thought was correct - the hardtail would do me fine.

Unfortunately Echelon does only do road bikes so I have to go further afield. I went into Decathlon after work last week and tried a Rockrider 8.1. Although I am bang in between sizes according to their guide (L and XL) the large seemed to fit me pretty well. I had a little ride around the store and it felt right to me.

At £550 it's about the kind of money I want to spend and from the little I know about MTBs and the lot that I know about Decathlon, it's pretty good spec for the money. 

So they may be getting a call in the next few days to set one up for me so I can come and collect it.


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## bianchi1 (13 Mar 2013)

Typhon said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. I've been mulling things over these past couple of weeks and have made a decision. When I made the OP I was originally looking at hardtails in the £500-600 range as I think that'll be enough for what I want but the guy in the other bike shop swayed me towards a full sussy. After reading your replies though I think my original thought was correct - the hardtail would do me fine.
> 
> Unfortunately Echelon does only do road bikes so I have to go further afield. I went into Decathlon after work last week and tried a Rockrider 8.1. Although I am bang in between sizes according to their guide (L and XL) the large seemed to fit me pretty well. I had a little ride around the store and it felt right to me.
> 
> ...


 

I was in Echelon the other day and it looks like they do a couple of the Boardman mountain bikes...but they appear to be 4000 quid!! Rockrider looks like a much better bet.


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## Typhon (13 Mar 2013)

bianchi1 said:


> I was in Echelon the other day and it looks like they do a couple of the Boardman mountain bikes...but they appear to be 4000 quid!! Rockrider looks like a much better bet.


 
Ah yes I forgot about those! The Boardman SLR road bikes are very tempting but I can't see myself spending that kind of money on a MTB, not yet anyway!


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## Tango (13 Mar 2013)

Typhon said:


> I can't see myself spending that kind of money on a MTB, not yet anyway!



Not yet, famous last words 

Tis a slippery slope


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## Typhon (13 Mar 2013)

Tango said:


> Not yet, famous last words
> 
> Tis a slippery slope


 
Haha, true! That's how it started with road cycling as well.


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## Tango (13 Mar 2013)

I was on the MTB slope first

On the beginnings of the roadie slop now


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Mar 2013)

Nowt wrong with a rockrider.


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## Motozulu (25 Mar 2013)

Look at this for a deal - in your price range and a hardtail with fantastic specs and great forks for the money. Thank me later.  I reckon the 20" would do you.

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s2p4207/CUBE-LTD-2012


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