# Campaigning against dodgy cycle lane what do I do?



## Banjo (29 Jan 2012)

Around my area the dangerous painted cycle lanes tight outside lines of parked cars are appearing.

IMHO these are worse than having nothing at all. They encourage cyclists into the door danger area of parked cars while offering no real protection from car drivers overtaking.

They al;so encourage car drivers to abuse cyclists sensibly chosing not to use them.

For these reasons I would like to contact the local government dept responsible for them first then start a campaign against them in the local press.

Anyone know who in the first instance I should contact.Is it a town council officer or seperate transport dept in charge of this type of thing?​


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## AnotherEye (29 Jan 2012)

Feel free to use this if it's useful.
If you ask I can send you a high quality copy.

Good luck


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## Banjo (29 Jan 2012)

AnotherEye said:


> View attachment 6582
> 
> Feel free to use this if it's useful.
> If you ask I can send you a high quality copy.
> ...


 Excellent, thanks. I would appreciate a high quality copy, I will send you my email in a private conversation.


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## snorri (29 Jan 2012)

Perhaps there is a local cycle campaign group who could help, or if you are in the CTC contact the local RtR rep.
Otherwise,find out which authority is reponsible for the road, then look on the authority website for contact details. There will be a roads department, also a road safety department, there just might be a Cycling Officer too. It is often best just to write to the person right at the top, (Chief Executive or similar title) that person will pass your complaint down to the appropriate department.
I would give them a chance to respond before contacting the Press who unless you have a local press person with a knowledge and interest in cycling affairs may not be of little help.


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## Red Light (29 Jan 2012)

Download a copy of the DfT's Cycle Infrastructure Design and ask them why they are not following national guidelines:

_7.5.2 Cycle lanes can be marked on the offside of a line of parallel parking bays (see Figure 7.5). A buffer zone between the bays and the cycle lane of between 0.5 and 1 metre is generally recommended. The angle between the cycle lane and the kerb on the approach to the parking bays should be 1 in 10._​


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## MrHappyCyclist (29 Jan 2012)

You could write to the highways department of your (or the relevant) local council, though you might not get anywhere. I did that and discussed the unsatisfactory results in this thread.

You're welcome to borrow anything from my letter if you wish.)


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## dellzeqq (29 Jan 2012)

suggest that if a cyclists gets 'doored' he or she will sue....


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## growingvegetables (29 Jan 2012)

The local councillor's surgery might be a place to start? Any clubs? Cyclenation says there are campaign and bicycle user groups in Cardiff and Swansea? Worth a contact?


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Jan 2012)

Ask to see the Highway Authority's formal risk assessment for the infrastructure. Get fobbed off. Ask again. Get fobbed off again. Stick in a FoI request. Get fobbed off. Appeal the decision. Get a redacted, for Data Protection reasons, copy of the risk assessment. Ask how this risk assessment was carried out. Ask what the heck the DPA as got to do with anything. Get fobbed off. Ask again. Get fobbed off. Ask yourself why they find it so difficult to answer your simple questions. Ask again. Get fobbed off. Ask yourself why you are getting annoyed. Write to the cabinet member for Transport and your local councillor. Get a note explaining the flawed method used to produce the risk assessment. Compare the flawed output from a flawed risk assessment process with your view of the risks caused by the infrastructure. Write it all down. Ask what the HA have to say about this. Get fobbed off. Ask again copying your MP. Get invited to an on-site meeting. Meet with some men in suits who don't look like they ride bikes. Share your concerns politely and reasonably. Get fobbed off to your face. Stay calm. Restate your concerns in their language. Observe the furrowed brows. Receive reassurance that plan will be changed. Die of 'not surprise' when the contractors build it as originally proposed.

Take a deep breath...

...start over again.
...start/join a local cycling campaign
...start spending a lot of time in meetings not achieving much
...start to realise that they think bad provision is better than none (so it is in the reports they write which are all about how many 100's of metres of cycling lanes there are)
...start seeing tiny changes in attitude (like pro-active consulation)
...start being listened too
...start to 'win' more than you lose.


YMMV.


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## Red Light (29 Jan 2012)

[QUOTE 1701978, member: 45"]Go to the local authority website. There will be a fault reporting form on there. Report it as incorrect signage and that it's dangerous. Wait for the response and take it from there.

There will be a councillor responsible for highways, and hopefully a chair of a cycling committee on the council. The latter is the one you will likely get the best response for.

I'd give them a chance to sort it out first before you go in with all guns blazing. These errors are usually a result of stupidity or ignorance.[/quote]

Not worked in what? 15 years in Cambridge. The Botanical Garden and Mitcham's Corner cycle lanes still run through the dooring zones.


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## GrumpyGregry (29 Jan 2012)

Red Light said:


> Not worked in what? 15 years in Cambridge. The Botanical Garden and Mitcham's Corner cycle lanes still run through the dooring zones.


Once that paint goes down the fires of hell won't burn it off round here, and no one from the LA/HA will ever admit that the provision is flawed. It is all about yardage not suitability.


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## Richard Mann (29 Jan 2012)

Red Light said:


> Download a copy of the DfT's Cycle Infrastructure Design and ask them why they are not following national guidelines:
> 
> _7.5.2 Cycle lanes can be marked on the offside of a line of parallel parking bays (see Figure 7.5). A buffer zone between the bays and the cycle lane of between 0.5 and 1 metre is generally recommended. The angle between the cycle lane and the kerb on the approach to the parking bays should be 1 in 10._​


 
The document is LTN2/08, available here: http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf

The bay should be the width of the typical vehicle (1.8m for cars, 2.0m for vans, 2.5m for lorries) +0.5m (or more if there's room)

You are unlikely to get anything more than that. 0.5m is probably adequate for a 30mph road; probably not enough if the 85%ile speeds are higher (so it may be sensible to ask what the 85%ile speeds are...)

If you can paste a link giving more detail (Google link to the location?) then we may be able to say more


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## Banjo (30 Jan 2012)

Thanks for all the replies, at least I know where to start now.I dont hold much hope of getting these removed but if it at least raises awareness it will be worthwhile.

Got one pic before my camera battery died. As you can see even a medium size car parked close to the curb is intruding into the cycle lane. There are several more issues I can see but will get more photos etc when I can in between doing a 60 hour work week this week. (off next week so not complaining).

It looks quiet in the pic but thats unusual, its more often than not nose to tail traffic, its a main route in and out of town.


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## Richard Mann (30 Jan 2012)

Cripes. However, they've made it quite easy to fix: the outer line should be the inner line of a new cycle lane. Or just paint some cycle logos outside the outer line. The traffic lane is plenty wide enough to sacrifice a bit more width (if it's anything more than 3m wide then you've probably got a speeding problem).


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## jugglingphil (30 Jan 2012)

From your picture, that cycle lane is certainly a danger.

If you have a car, drive it and park it on the street. If you don't ask someone who does.
open the door and take pictures. It should be obvious why it's stupid and dangerous.

As said already, check if there is an existing cycle campaign group. If so, find out is they were consulted first. Or if they have done anything about this stupid lane.


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## jugglingphil (30 Jan 2012)

Richard Mann said:


> Cripes. However, they've made it quite easy to fix: the outer line should be the inner line of a new cycle lane. Or just paint some cycle logos outside the outer line. The traffic lane is plenty wide enough to sacrifice a bit more width (if it's anything more than 3m wide then you've probably got a speeding problem).


 
or they could remove on street parking, there will then be loads of room for a good cycle lane.


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## benb (30 Jan 2012)

That is shoot.


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Jan 2012)

^ dang. He said it first.

Utter shite, designed and installed by someone who probably never lost his stabilisers and resents cyclists to this day.


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## kalaika (31 Jan 2012)

Banjo said:


> It looks quiet in the pic but thats unusual, its more often than not nose to tail traffic, its a main route in and out of town.


 
That's not a bike lane. It's a death trap. Too narrow, too close to the cars, and what on earth is that kink about?


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## Banjo (31 Jan 2012)

I have contacted the Town Council via their online message system .Had this reply within 24 hours.


Dear Mr Hodges

Thank you for your email I have forwarded your request to our Highways department and they will investigate.
If you feel we can be of any further assistance please contact us again.
Kim Farley
Customer Service Representative
Vale of Glamorgan Council

Will let you all know how it goes.


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## GrumpyGregry (31 Jan 2012)

I suggest you email bac k tomorrow

Dear Kim

I do feel you can be of further assistance to me as it happens.

Can I have the contact details for the person in the Highways Department you have forwarded my request to please.

Regards

Banjo Hodges

I suggest you do this becayse if the Vale of Glamorgan Highways Department employ the sort of chimps that design and create cycle lanes like that monstrosity I strongly suspect that investigating things, and responding back to you, will be completely beyond them.

Oh yeah, and ask to see the risk assessment....


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## CamPhil (7 Feb 2012)

Put up posters on all the lamp-posts along that stretch pointing out that the highways authority have chosen do accept joint liability of any doorings that occur by deliberately creating the hazard, and giving postal and email addresses for the highways authority, as well as telephone numbers.
Replace as necessary.
Lamination makes them last longer, as will the use of heavy duty non-releasable cable ties.
FOI the highways authority for the name of the person responsible for placing them there, and the details of their professional indemnity insurance coverage (they'll be needing it).
Research all cases of doorings and copy them to the highway authority, placing particular emphasis on those which have occurred in door-zone cycle lanes.
Send them a link to the Youtube video shot by the New York cyclist who was (wrongly) fined for cycling outside the cycle lane (Google should find it).
Never mind - it's here: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

Nearly 5 million views on it now.


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## theclaud (7 Feb 2012)

Blimey Banjo - that is a bit of a shocker. There are more of these appearing, you say? Can you post a Google Maps link with the location?


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## dawesome (7 Feb 2012)

They painted lanes in door zones in Waltham Forest:


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## snorri (8 Feb 2012)

It would be interesting to drop into any correspondence with the roads authority that you have to use this road in connection with your work, and you are thinking about informing the Health and Safety Executive as these road markings constitute a hazard in your workplace.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/roadsafety/index.htm
I was having problems with some poorly marked road works, and was getting nowhere with the roads authority until I mentioned HSE and the problem was sorted pdq, I will never know if this was just a coincidence. 
Road works guarding is just a temporary measure and the OP is concerned with markings of a more permanent nature, but it's worth a try.


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## Gandalf (8 Feb 2012)

I have no idea if road design was a factor here, but it does show how serious the consequences can be. R.I.P.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9516706.Police_appeal_for_witnesses_to_fatal_crash_in_Beckenham/

POLICE are appealing for witnesses to a crash in which a cyclist died.
James Darby, 44, was cycling along Upper Elmers End Road in Beckenham when he was in collision with a stationary blue Fiat Panda.
The incident took place on Saturday January 7 at about 6.10pm.
The car was parked on Upper Elmers End Road and as the female driver was getting out of her car, Mr Darby collided with the driver's door.
He was taken to Kings College Hospital where he remained unconscious and in a serious condition until he died on January 22.
A post mortem gave the cause of death as head injuries.
No arrests have yet been made. Enquiries continue.
Anyone who witnessed the incident or has any information is asked to contact the Collision Investigation Unit at Catford Traffic Garage on 020 8285 1574 or to remain anonymous call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.


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## subaqua (8 Feb 2012)

jugglingphil said:


> or they could remove on street parking, there will then be loads of room for a good cycle lane.


 no, councils have a mandate to put in "cyclelanes" as quickly as possible with no thought to cyclists. must keep the motorists happy at all costs.
my route home got changed for the worse under a road "improvement" scheme by removing 1 lane and putting in a cycle lane . oh and widening pavements for cars to park on meaning the 1 mtr wide lane is right in the door zone.

my local concillor doesn't give a monkeys as its 20 yards outside of the boundary of her ward. local MP hasn't responded to letters yet. even the guy at the council responsible doesn't care.


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## Richard Mann (8 Feb 2012)

Gandalf said:


> I have no idea if road design was a factor here, but it does show how serious the consequences can be. R.I.P.
> 
> http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9516706.Police_appeal_for_witnesses_to_fatal_crash_in_Beckenham/


 12m road, intermittent parking both sides, lots of median markings. Yup, I'd have said the road design was definitely the problem.

If they'd gone through the loop of trying to put in cycle lanes (or whatever) and resolved the design, then it probably wouldn't have happened.

But they hadn't.

{A potential resolved design for that road would be 2.3m bays both sides, 1m cycle lanes and zebras. Or a 3.0m bay one side, 1.5m cycle lanes and zebras. Or cycle tracks parking on one side, and zebras. The first has the most taming effect.}


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## MrHappyCyclist (8 Feb 2012)

A year ago, I wrote to our highway authority about dangerous cycle lanes in our area. One paragraph of my email said:


> An additional problem that exists is that a significant number our cycle lanes are frequently blocked by cars that park across the lane, and in some instances are compromised by the existence of adjacent park spaces, thus requiring cyclists either to ignore the cycle lane altogether, or ride through the dangerous car door opening zone. Again, these lanes need to be improved by means of changes to the parking regulations in those places, or improvements to the design of the cycle lanes to eliminate these problems. Examples of these problems include all of the cycle lanes in both directions along the A6 from Farnworth through Kearsley toward the boundary with Salford (but these are not the only examples).


The reply that I received contained the following response to that paragraph:


> There are, as you state, lengths of cycle lane along these roads which are permanently blocked by parked vehicles. These lengths of cycle lane would not be installed nowadays unless an appropriate parking lay by could be created with room for a cycle lane on the outside with enough room to avoid opening car doors. Simply implementing parking/waiting restrictions is not the answer as on the majority of lengths of road where this occurs many of the vehicles belong to residents of adjacent houses and do not have any alternative parking provision.


So the residents' convenience trumps the safety of cyclists.


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## pshore (8 Feb 2012)

If you needed another example:

BBC News: Holloway Road: Killed cyclist 'may have hit car door'

Definitely write to your local councillors asking for help. I mean, how hard can it be to stop the council from doing work ?


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Feb 2012)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> So the residents' convenience trumps the safety of cyclists.


 
In short, yes. What else did you expect?

30 million drivers in the country, nearly all of them have the vote, nearly all of them think they own the rights to the road outside their door. No local councillor is going to alienate dozens and dozens of voters and council tax payers in their ward without very good cause. Marginally mproving the safety of cyclists is not a very good cause unless you can demonstrate an increase in real, not perceived, risk.

Probably better to try and get the unsafe lane removed (but won't happen because of local authority "my total of cycle infrastructure's bigger than yours" pissing contests) or just ignore it as it is unlikely to be making much of a real contribution to safety anyway.

My take, without knowing the location, the parked cars probably slow the other traffic down, probably making it safer for cyclists and pedestrians.


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## dand_uk (8 Feb 2012)

Banjo said:


> I have contacted the Town Council via their online message system .Had this reply within 24 hours.
> 
> 
> Dear Mr Hodges
> ...


 
I recommend you send them this link: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJBkLN-nC4
and tell them to skip to 4mins 40.


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## benb (9 Feb 2012)

dand_uk said:


> I recommend you send them this link:
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJBkLN-nC4
> and tell them to skip to 4mins 40.


 
That made me feel sick. Good reactions from the driver. Hope the cyclist was OK, and the person who opened the door got arrested.


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## d87francis (14 Feb 2012)

Apologies for the poor picture from google maps - but following your advice I have reported this to the council. It has bothered me for ages as the cycle lane makes drivers angry when I cycle at a sensible distance from the cars as they feel I should be in the cycle lane. If you're interested this is Warneford Lane in Oxford.


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## 400bhp (14 Feb 2012)

Why do councils bother with these? They are so obviously wrong.

Is it to give someone something to do?

I'm really struggling...


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## dawesome (14 Feb 2012)

400bhp said:


> Why do councils bother with these? They are so obviously wrong.
> 
> Is it to give someone something to do?
> 
> I'm really struggling...


 

"Never mind the quality, feel the length"


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## d87francis (15 Feb 2012)

I'm afraid the report a problem page just gave a comment box and I didn't save what I sent, but I received a speedy reply (below) followed by the reply I have sent back.

Dear Mr Francis

Thank for you for your recent enquiry on the marking of the cycle lanes in Warneford Lane, and specifically the potential danger posed by cyclists being in the 'door zone' , and your suggestion that a buffer zone be provided to help address this. Our monitoring of the reported accidents here since the current layout was provided in 1997 thankfully shows no history of cycle accidents involving vehicles doors being opened, or other accidents where drivers are frustrated by cyclists choosing not to be in the lane. We also thankfully have seen very few problems of this type in the other locations where cycle lanes are adjacent to parking bays.

I will however be happy to review the scope for providing a buffer zone (clearly the road width will be the main constraint we will need to consider) but even if some adjustments are practical, with the very severe pressures on our budgets, it is most likely that we would only be able to implement any changes by combining with other works (such are resurfacing or if making other changes to the parking bays requiring remarking of the road)..

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any further queries on this matter.
Anthony Kirkwood 
Road Safety Engineering Team 
Environment and Economy 
Oxfordshire County Council 
Speedwell House 
Speedwell Street 
Oxford 
OX1 1NE

{My Reply}

Dear Anthony,

Thank you very much for your kind email. I see that you are in an
almost impossible situation due to lack of budget and the width of
road and appreciate your willingness to look into this. I understand
that funding is put towards areas where there have been 'recorded'
accidents and as there have been none along this stretch of road it's
priorities must fall fairly low. It would be nice to know what the
risk assessment for this bit of infrastructure says about having a
cycle lane so close to a long stretch of parked cars - and perhaps
ensure that future risk assessments for other locations will deem such
a situation unsatisfactory.

I'm sure the amount of cycle lanes provided must look very good for
councils stats, and removing lanes can't be a popular decision.
However, as I doubt this issue will ever be of a high enough priority
to warrant a widening of the road to allow for buffer zones, perhaps
in this case the safest thing to do would be to remove the cycle
lanes?

I very much appreciate you giving up your time to look into this.
Many thanks
Dom Francis.

We have an area meeting on Tuesday 21st on cycling provisions in Oxford, with a proposed £300k to spend over 4 years, with local campaign group cyclox, the police, and the council all talking - which should be very interesting as I'd like to see a shift in attitudes towards planning for cycle provisions.


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## growingvegetables (15 Feb 2012)

I believe congratulations are in order. And an award of the OMJ - Order of the Monumental Jobsworth.

He's part of the "Road Safety Engineering Team", and yet describes the "door zone" as a *potential* danger area, because no accidents have been recorded involving dooring. The guy's a fool - door zone is an *actual* danger zone.

Hmmm - this shows (the post code search doesn't seem to be working ] shows 9 incidents involving slight injury to cyclists, and 2 incidents involving serious injury to cyclists. 3 slight and 3 serious to pedestrians. And 6 slight to car occupants, with an additional cluster around the end of the road.

I'm no professional - but if the cyclist injury rate is so comparatively high, doesn't that make our OMJ at least think that the farcilities may not be adequate?


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## d87francis (15 Feb 2012)

It would be nice to know some more information about the accidents on that map growingvegetables, a quick google hasn't revealed any press on accidents along there. I can imagine why there is such a cluster at the end, as there lies a magical roundabout - the only one I know that someone, more often than not, tries to pull out in front of me.

I have received a reply from Anthony:

Dear Dom

Thanks! - just two follow up comments in case of help - in terms of risk assessments, we carefully consider the possible safety implications of any new features (a formal safety audit is carried out for larger schemes, and even for relatively minor changes such as cycle lanes, a safety assessment will be carried out). The real test though of a scheme is how well in practice it works (as measured by the reported accident record) and we therefore monitor the safety performance closely to check for problems, as was the case when the lanes were provided here.

On cycle lanes more generally, we don't have any targets etc. for how many kilometres of lane are provided. There is in fact overall relatively little evidence (both locally and nationally) that their provision affects accident rates, but they are nevertheless generally popular with cyclists, and as a low cost measure, we are happy to provide them where we consider it safe and appropriate - I appreciate that there will be legitimate debate about the latter!

I have yet to pen a reply as I need some clarification on funding which will hopefully happen at our area meeting on Tuesday evening on cycle provision in Oxford. The is a provisional £300k over 4 years on the City Council budget towards cycling - but to complicate things within the City boundary the City Council maintain some roads and the County Council maintain others. So I don't know if money from this could go towards it. Still I think I shall forward this correspondence to Cyclox our local campaign group who shall be talking alongside the Council at the meeting. As I think it's atrocious that they consider this safe, and I guess it boils down to the age old story of waiting for accidents to happen before they change things - do they not realise that those people are not crash test dummies, they are real people with lives. I wonder if that means of testing an infrastructures safety violates the Convention of Human Rights and would be worthy of an appeal in the Court.


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## Richard Mann (15 Feb 2012)

Tony Kirkwood has a more detailed breakdown with accidents classified according to type, and was probably looking at the dooring category (I've attached the map of KSIs). The evidence is that we get more (and more severe) dooring incidents in places where there's sporadic kerbside parking and no cycle lane alongside (eg loading in St Clements). Painting the cycle lane seems to make cyclists take a slightly better position, and to flag up to motorists that there might be cyclists.

On the stats, Warneford Lane isn't particularly a problem, being fairly low speed for cars (so fast cyclists probably go in the traffic), and pretty narrow (and it's now 20mph, to boot). The parking is low-turnover, being mainly Brookes students. The ambition is to remove a lot of that parking, once the Divinity Road Area Controlled Parking Zone goes in. In the mean time, it's not top priority.

The City Council are putting up a bit of money (not very much, it has to be said), which will probably be spent on cycle lanes and further tightening of parking on main roads. At least it will if I have anything to do with it.


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## 400bhp (15 Feb 2012)

d87francis said:


> It would be nice to know some more information about the accidents on that map growingvegetables, a quick google hasn't revealed any press on accidents along there. I can imagine why there is such a cluster at the end, as there lies a magical roundabout - the only one I know that someone, more often than not, tries to pull out in front of me.
> 
> I have received a reply from Anthony:
> 
> ...


 
Highlighted bit. He misunderstands risk. It is the accident rate, not the number of accidents. the number might be nil because very few cyclists actually use the road and/or the lane.

It would be better to look at larger studies on accident (rates) in cycle lanes, and their particular type (close to door zone or not).


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## d87francis (15 Feb 2012)

@400bhp - that type of study would seem the logical thing to do.

@Richard Mann - thanks for the map, I know Warneford Lane isn't the most pressing of issues with regards to cycling provision around Oxford, I have plenty of other niggles myself (such as the lamp posts in the cycle lane going up Headington Hill), but I mainly want to change the attitude that made them feel this was a sensible place to put a cycle lane in the first place. I know that budgets are tight, and waiting until they next resurface or paint to remove it would be entirely reasonable. 

It may well flag up to motorists that there could be cyclists, but a driver in Oxford that wasn't already aware of that must be fairly unobservant; and wouldn't a sign post work better. I'm just slightly confused when you say 'Painting the cycle lane seems to make cyclists take a slightly better position', do you mean in general? Because I can't see how it puts them in a better position in this instance, the better position would be two foot to the right of the cycle lane.

I just struggle to see the logic with putting a cycle lane along the road in the first place other than purely to increase stats. The road is narrow and curves to the left when coming from Old Road, obscuring the view of someone about to open a door. As it is when cycling well inside the 'door zone' vehicles have to pass you too closely because of the width of the road - surely encouraging road users to share the space along here would be much safer?


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## growingvegetables (15 Feb 2012)

d87francis said:


> It would be nice to know some more information about the accidents on that map growingvegetables, a quick google hasn't revealed any press on accidents along there.


 
Sorry - I know no more than the guys say on their website; it's the police STATS19 data for 2000-2010 put on a map; there's a bit more on the Guardian Data Blog and the BBC

Fwiw - I used it to dig deeper into Leeds council's site to find
- road injury data (includes reports to download on sites for concern, and lengths for concern)
- Leeds Traffic Monitoring Report

Two points
- goodness only knows what other statistics are extraordinarily well hidden in the "well-ordered website hierarchy" of public transparency corporate obfuscation and ignorance.
- and it was worrying to find that my "spidey feelings" about incidents on the A660 corridor were spot on. Parts of that important cycling route have a cyclist casualty rate 10 times higher than any comparable important routes in the city.


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## Banjo (19 Feb 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and support.I have been up to my eyeballs lately with work and family stuff but have written a letter to the Chief Executive of our Highways dept .

The tone of the letter was friendly and non confrontational, I opened by praising them for some good stuff they have done then expressing my grave concerns about the cycle lanes in question. I have quoted the dft guidelines which the lanes dont follow and expressed concern about the possible death of a child (given its close proximity to 2 major schools).

Will let U know any future developments which may involve local councillor/MP .As a non political person normally I dont even know who they are but they will be finding out who I am if this turns into a whitewash.


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## Banjo (24 Feb 2012)

Success 

Only sent the letter about a week ago.Had a reply saying someone was looking into it. In the last 24 hours or so the old markings have been removed and replaced with a buffer zone between the parking bays and the cyclelane Im not positive but I think the parking bay has been widened also. Personally I still wont ride in it but its a whole lot safer than before.


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## CamPhil (24 Feb 2012)

Well done 

It goes to show what can be achieved even by one person if they take up an issue and follow it through all the way.

I suspect the vital thing (after your own good work, of course) was the failure to meet current standards - so campaigning to improve those standards is a very worthwhile issue for national organisations, because without good standards being set in the first place, this kind of result would not be possible.


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## growingvegetables (24 Feb 2012)

Neat - good job!


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## MrHappyCyclist (24 Feb 2012)

Banjo said:


> Success


Excellent. Perhaps you could get them to come and talk to ours in Bolton?


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## Banjo (27 Feb 2012)

Before and after











still not great but a big improvement. I honestly didnt expect a result so was pleasantly surprised.

As has been said it is probably the hard campaigning over many years by CTC et al for better standards in design that brought the result.All I did was point out where it didnt meet those standards.


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## growingvegetables (27 Feb 2012)

Neat - they've made allowance for the door-zone door-(peaking-out-gingerly)-zone


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Feb 2012)

My inner cynic says, nearing the end of the financial year, use or lose it budget pressures, what's some white paint and a subcontractors labour?

My inner optimist says "Ruddy good result"

My inner realist says "Ruddy good result, the council have upgraded the infrastructure from dreadful to just plain bad"


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## Banjo (27 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> My inner cynic says, nearing the end of the financial year, use or lose it budget pressures, what's some white paint and a subcontractors labour?
> 
> My inner optimist says "Ruddy good result"
> 
> My inner realist says "Ruddy good result, the council have upgraded the infrastructure from dreadful to just plain bad"


 
Im not exactly doing cart wheels in celebration greg. Even though I would have been happier just to see the old marks burned off and left off at least it is an improvement and maybe now they know local cyclists are keeping an eye out they will raise their game a bit.


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## 400bhp (2 Mar 2012)

d87francis/banjo - do you have a copy of your original text to the councils please? I'd like to report THIS farce of a cycle lane in Sale. I'm tired of getting motorists tailgating and beeping at me as I take the lane.


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## Richard Mann (2 Mar 2012)

400bhp said:


> d87francis/banjo - do you have a copy of your original text to the councils please? I'd like to report THIS farce of a cycle lane in Sale. I'm tired of getting motorists tailgating and beeping at me as I take the lane.


 
The traffic lane shouldn't be more than 3m wide (it looks about 3.5m). Given it's an advisory cycle lane, they could take it down to 2.8m, which would push speeds down to an appropriate level given the busyness of the location.


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## benb (2 Mar 2012)

400bhp said:


> d87francis/banjo - do you have a copy of your original text to the councils please? I'd like to report THIS farce of a cycle lane in Sale. I'm tired of getting motorists tailgating and beeping at me as I take the lane.


The shop looks good though.


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