# Those Electric Cigarette Thingys



## Dave the Smeghead (18 Apr 2014)

A guy that visits our office once or twice per week is trying to give up smoking (fair play to him) but he is using those electric cigarette things to help him.
Whilst he was in earlier this week I came back into the office and it stank - really rank and very nicotiney - quite horrible.
The question is is this doing any harm to the rest of us?
I have never smoked and have no intention of ever doing so, and could do without "passive electronic cigarette smoking".


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## Roadrider48 (18 Apr 2014)

I didn't think there was nicotine in those things. And they're supposed to be odourless.


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## Peteaud (18 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I didn't think there was nicotine in those things. And they're supposed to be odourless.



They contain nicotine in liquid form.


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## Roadrider48 (18 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> They contain nicotine in liquid form.


Well I never. Didn't know that.


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## potsy (18 Apr 2014)

Are you sure he didn't have a crafty fag while no one was looking?


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## Peteaud (18 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Well I never. Didn't know that.



The liquid is drawn through a heating element to create a nicotine mist (smoke).

They may help to give up proper fags but the user is still addicted to the nicotine.


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## welsh dragon (18 Apr 2014)

There is quite a debate going on with people trying to get them banned. People are trying to give up, yet they are being thwarted in they're attempt to stop smoking. Different things work for different people.

smokers are already treated like lepers. However research needs to be done once and for all to find out if these a) work and b) are safe. I dont think enough has been done to decide one way or another yet. Perhaps in the meantime, it would be best if people weren't allowed to use ecigs inside, especially if they smell. I can understand why some people may object.


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## Bryony (18 Apr 2014)

They shouldn't smell and the "smoke" is just water vapour and totally harmless my OH uses them I've never smelt an odour.


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## Roadrider48 (18 Apr 2014)

Bryony said:


> They shouldn't smell and the "smoke" is just water vapour and totally harmless my OH uses them I've never smelt an odour.


That's what I thought. But others say different. But I don't smoke, so I don't know.


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## Roadrider48 (18 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> There is quite a debate going on with people trying to get them banned. People are trying to give up, yet they are being thwarted in they're attempt to stop smoking. Different things work for different people.
> 
> smokers are already treated like lepers. However research needs to be done once and for all to find out if these a) work and b) are safe. I dont think enough has been done to decide one way or another yet. Perhaps in the meantime, it would be best if people weren't allowed to use ecigs inside, especially if they smell. I can understand why some people may object.


You're right. Smokers are treated rather badly in general.


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## welsh dragon (18 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> You're right. Smokers are treated rather badly in general.



I smoked for over 40 years, finally gave up 2 years ago. the government complains about smokers and wanting people to quit, yet throw as many obstacles in they're way as they can and make smokers feel like the lowest of the low. They don't mention the fact that smoking brings in huge amounts of money. Its all very hypacritical. Alcohol kills large numbers of people as well, but they aren't treated like smokers.


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2014)

A few guys where I work use them. There is a smell with them but it is alleged to be 100% water vapour that they emit, and the strength of the odour depends on what flavour fluid they're using. The cigarette ones smell horrible, but the fruit ones just smell really sweet to me.

The correct term for using one is actually 'vaping', but as other have said there is, and probably always be, campaigns to have them banned, or at least controlled until there is definitive proof of any side effects, passive of otherwise.

The idea is you start on a nicotine strength relative to your normal cigarette intake, you then wean yourself down over a period of weeks by dropping to weaker strength fluids. The same basic principle as nicotine patches.

As an former slave to the weed myself I think they're a great idea as an aid to quitting, just not sure of them as a long term replacement, some of the fluids I've seen look really dodgy and could contain almost anything, but can they really be worse than the cigarettes they're replacing?

I know a couple of guys though who have intention of kicking their e-fags into touch, they like smoking and this way they can do it where they want and when they want, they love 'em!


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## Peteaud (18 Apr 2014)

I am on the fence with them to be fair.

I do think more tests need to be made on them.


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> I am on the fence with them to be fair.


You must have good balance 


I'll get me coat


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## welsh dragon (18 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> You must have good balance
> 
> 
> I'll get me coat



Please do. Before you break it


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## Dave the Smeghead (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> You're right. Smokers are treated rather badly in general.



So if you're a cyclist and a smoker you should basically turn up your toes right now!


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## Cubist (19 Apr 2014)

There are EU moves afoot to have e cigs, especially the rechargeable ones with separate refillable tanks banned, or at least regulated out of existence. It will come as no surprise that the major stakeholders in this move are the tobacco companies. They have sunk their r and d into the disposable and replaceable cartridge type devices ( the ones that actually look like cigarettes) 

I suspect if you could smell nicotine in the air around your vaping colleague, that he had nipped outside for a real fag. The vapour from mine is completely odourless. I use it in a closed office about 12x12 and cannot smell it.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

I dont think that is what roadrider 48 was saying, just that smokers do have a hard time. Being a cyclist wasn't mentioned. Taking up cycling and trying stop smoking are both going to make you fitter, and hopefully you won't suffer long time illness.

The fact is, I'm surprised smokers aren't compelled to wear bells around they're necks to warn everyone that a smoker is nearby.


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## Booyaa (19 Apr 2014)

Cubist said:


> There are EU moves afoot to have e cigs, especially the rechargeable ones with separate refillable tanks banned, or at least regulated out of existence. It will come as no surprise that the major stakeholders in this move are the tobacco companies. They have sunk their r and d into the disposable and replaceable cartridge type devices ( the ones that actually look like cigarettes)
> 
> I suspect if you could smell nicotine in the air around your vaping colleague, that he had nipped outside for a real fag. The vapour from mine is completely odourless. *I use it in a closed office about 12x12 and cannot smell it*.



Smokers rarely smell how disgusting the smoke actually smells. Similar could be true for vapers.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Apr 2014)

Dave the Smeghead said:


> A guy that visits our office once or twice per week is trying to give up smoking (fair play to him) but he is using those electric cigarette things to help him.
> Whilst he was in earlier this week I came back into the office and it stank - really rank and very nicotiney - quite horrible.
> *The question is is this doing any harm to the rest of us?*
> I have never smoked and have no intention of ever doing so, and could do without "passive electronic cigarette smoking".



Is he using it _*in*_ the office? I doubt it's doing you any harm but it's a bit impolite - in the way that eating a smelly hot meal would be.

They are marketed as an alternative to smoking, not a cessation aid, because there's not been adequate testing on them. There are also those who consider them dangerous on principle because they "normalise" smoking. Although this latter line of reasoning seems to me to come from the "it must be so, it stands to reason" school of thinking.


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## Peteaud (19 Apr 2014)

Booyaa said:


> Smokers rarely smell how disgusting the smoke actually smells. Similar could be true for vapers.



As an Ex smoker (of Old Holburn), i still like the smell, i just keep well away in case i get tempted.

Stale smoke is vile though.


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## Dave the Smeghead (19 Apr 2014)

There was definitely a smell - an unpleasant smell. 
All I want to know is this potentially damaging to those of us that don't smoke?

Not that it is probably going To matter long term for me - both parents smoked back the 70s and 80s when I was a child and teenager, and I have worked in construction post apprenticeship and probably drilled through more asbestos than you could shake a stick at. One of those or a combination of both will get me in the end. Thats the one thing about life - it is 100% fatal.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Unclean. Unclean. Make way for the unclean smoker.


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## Booyaa (19 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> As an Ex smoker (of Old Holburn), i still like the smell, i just keep well away in case i get tempted.
> 
> Stale smoke is vile though.


That's a fair point actually, sometimes, usually on my way home after a long day of work, I pass people smoking on the street and have a real hankering for a cig, my will remains strong though. Stale smoke is minging though.


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## Dave the Smeghead (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I dont think that is what roadrider 48 was saying, just that smokers do have a hard time. Being a cyclist wasn't mentioned. Taking up cycling and trying stop smoking are both going to make you fitter, and hopefully you won't suffer long time illness.
> 
> The fact is, I'm surprised smokers aren't compelled to wear bells around they're necks to warn everyone that a smoker is nearby.



I was, in potentially a humourous way (that obviously failed), just comparing the lot of a smoker in the work environment with a cyclist fighting (and possibly dying) for space on our city streets commuting to and from work.

I will get my coat - and clip on shoes!


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Im lucky. I was the only one who smoked in my immediate family, so I no longer come into contact with smokers, however there are times when I could almost sell my own mother for just one cigarette. Luckily rhe feeling pases very quickly


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Dave the Smeghead said:


> I was, in potentially a humourous way (that obviously failed), just comparing the lot of a smoker in the work environment with a cyclist fighting (and possibly dying) for space on our city streets commuting to and from work.
> 
> I will get my coat - and clip on shoes!



No need to get your coat. See the smiley at the end of my comment?


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## Simmer (19 Apr 2014)

With the refillable e-cigs the cheap liquids can smell really rank. You also get to choose the amount of nicotine it contains, the high nicotine cheap market liquid really is vile. I used then for a few months gradually reducing the nicotine to zero "juice". That's when I realised the only addiction left was habitual and not physical, I then stopped completely. 

I don't think they should be banned but there should be some control on the manufacture, especially around the battery.


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## ufkacbln (19 Apr 2014)

I think the answer is in regulation....


It is difficult to know what you are getting without some sort of regulation and standards.


The MHRA has a document on this, this is an excerpt: (NCP = Nicotine containing product)


> The government accepted the advice of the CHM and its expert group, which concluded that NCPs currently on the market do not meet appropriate standards of safety, quality and efficacy. Testing data confirm that nicotine levels can vary considerably from the labelled content and the amount of nicotine per product can differ from batch to batch. In terms of how well NCPs work, there can be widely differing amounts of nicotine from the same format with one form delivering what could be an effective therapeutic dose, another a 'placebo' dose. With regards to safety, toxic elements may be included at unexpectedly high doses which could produce adverse effects, particularly in vulnerable patient groups.



Regulating these products would improve them and also make them safer.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

I think everyone would agree that regulation is needed. Its important to know what is in these things, otherwise they could be just as bad as ordinary cigarettes.


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## Rob3rt (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I smoked for over 40 years, finally gave up 2 years ago. the government complains about smokers and wanting people to quit, yet throw as many obstacles in they're way as they can and make smokers feel like the lowest of the low. They don't mention the fact that smoking brings in huge amounts of money. Its all very hypacritical. *Alcohol kills large numbers of people as well, but they aren't treated like smokers*.



That is not a particularly good comparison to draw.


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

Dave the Smeghead said:


> So if you're a cyclist and a smoker you should basically turn up your toes right now!


I do not smoke, never have. But I have absolutely no problem being in the company of people who do.
Not cyclists in particular, I was just saying that smoking these days is seen as some kind of devil worship.


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> That is not a particularly good comparison to draw.


You are right, it is not. But there is some truth to it though.


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Im lucky. I was the only one who smoked in my immediate family, so I no longer come into contact with smokers, however there are times when I could almost sell my own mother for just one cigarette. Luckily rhe feeling pases very quickly


Was it really difficult to give up? I've heard the craving never really goes away.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Was it really difficult to give up? I've heard the craving never really goes away.



Yes it was. After smoking for 40 plus years. I had tried numerous time, but finally made the decision, and it was the best thing I ever did. However, i have no doubt, if I went for a night out, all it would take would be a couple of drinks, and I could very easily give in to the dreaded weed again. And I will be an addict and susceptible to smoking again for the rest of my life


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Yes it was. After smoking for 40 plus years. I had tried numerous time, but finally made the decision, and it was the best thing I ever did. However, i have no doubt, if I went for a night out, all it would take would be a couple of drinks, and I could very easily give in to the dreaded weed again. And I will be an addict and susceptible to smoking again for the rest of my life


That was what I heard. Brilliant of you to stick to it though.


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Was it really difficult to give up? I've heard the craving never really goes away.


Yup and yup  I've been stopped from 20+ a day for 10+ years, BUT, I have had the occasional relapse, (stress and emotion can make you do funny things!), and TBH I have no doubt there'll be more relapses before I draw my last, but I also know that if and when that does happen I can knock it on the head quickly as well.

As an ex-smoker a freshly lit fag smells divine, but on the flip side, someone who has recently smoked a fag stinks like a manky old ashtray 

TBH if these e-cigs had been around when I quit I'm not sure I'd ever have given them up completely. I suspect I'd still be buying zero nicotine juice and carrying on 'vaping' just because I could


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> That was what I heard. Brilliant of you to stick to it though.



Thanks. I would hate to fail now. I hate the smell on your clothes, not to mention the huge amount of money it costs. I was in a shop the other day and saw the cost of the ciggies I used to have £7.36 for 20 and I smoked 20 a day. God thats a lot of money.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> Yup and yup  I've been stopped from 20+ a day for 10+ years, BUT, I have had the occasional relapse, (stress and emotion can make you do funny things!), and TBH I have no doubt there'll be more relapses before I draw my last, but I also know that if and when that does happen I can knock it on the head quickly as well.
> 
> As an ex-smoker a freshly lit fag smells divine, but on the flip side, someone who has recently smoked a fag stinks like a manky old ashtray
> 
> TBH if these e-cigs had been around when I quit I'm not sure I'd ever have given them up completely. I suspect I'd still be buying zero nicotine juice and carrying on 'vaping' just because I could



I agree completely. But I haven't had a single cigarette. Its to tempting. But I still love the smell, of a fresh cigarette., wow.


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> Yup and yup  I've been stopped from 20+ a day for 10+ years, BUT, I have had the occasional relapse, (stress and emotion can make you do funny things!), and TBH I have no doubt there'll be more relapses before I draw my last, but I also know that if and when that does happen I can knock it on the head quickly as well.
> 
> As an ex-smoker a freshly lit fag smells divine, but on the flip side, someone who has recently smoked a fag stinks like a manky old ashtray
> 
> TBH if these e-cigs had been around when I quit I'm not sure I'd ever have given them up completely. I suspect I'd still be buying zero nicotine juice and carrying on 'vaping' just because I could


Does one every now and again do you much harm really?


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Thanks. I would hate to fail now. I hate the smell on your clothes, not to mention the huge amount of money it costs. I was in a shop the other day and saw the cost of the ciggies I used to have £7.36 for 20 and I smoked 20 a day. God thats a lot of money.


I know what you mean, I was in the fuel station the other week and the guy front bought 20 Richmond KS, IIRC they were about £8. £8 for 'budget' fags. Then I looked online and a sleeve of 200 Bensons from Tesco today will set you back £82.80!!!


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Personally, for me I could not take 1 cigarette. It would turn into another, and another and......


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> I know what you mean, I was in the fuel station the other week and the guy front bought 20 Richmond KS, IIRC they were about £8. £8 for 'budget' fags. Then I looked online and a sleeve of 200 Bensons from Tesco today will set you back £82.80!!!


That's a lot of money!


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Personally, for me I could not take 1 cigarette. It would turn into another, and another and......


Yeah, I guess it could start you off again. Not thinking!


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Its an awful lot of money. I try not to think of how much I have spent over 40 years


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Yeah, I guess it could start you off again. Not thinking!



all, or nothing  no half measures


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Its an awful lot of money. I try not to think of how much I have spent over 40 years


Best not to!


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Does one every now and again do you much harm really?


I'd have to say I don't honestly know, but at the same time it can't do you any good can it?

My last set back was November 2012 when I probably went through about 20-40 over about 2 weeks, so hardly chain smoking, and then when I got my head together I just knocked it on the head. Hopefully it won't happen again, but as WD says that susceptibility will always be there.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Best not to!



Indeed it would make me cry like a baby


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> I'd have to say I don't honestly know, but at the same time it can't do you any good can it?
> 
> My last set back was November 2012 when I probably went through about 20-40 over about 2 weeks, so hardly chain smoking, and then when I got my head together I just knocked it on the head. Hopefully it won't happen again, but as WD says that susceptibility will always be there.



You have far more willpower than I would. Well done for knocking it on the head


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Personally, for me I could not take 1 cigarette. It would turn into another, and another and......


I know what you mean WD, but what amazes me is I'd guarantee if you had a drag on one it would taste $hite and make you light headed and probably not want another.

So, how and why do people, (and I include us), ever get past that point and become hopeless addicts, or recovering addicts at least? 

It really illustartes the power of nicotine doesn't it?


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

I don't know if I would have given cigarettes up either it ecigs had been around. I would probably have just continued to smoke them.. again, its all or nothing for me.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> I know what you mean WD, but what amazes me is I'd guarantee if you had a drag on one it would taste $hite and make you light headed and probably not want another.
> 
> So, how and why do people, (and I include us), ever get past that point and become hopeless addicts, or recovering addicts at least?
> 
> It really illustartes the power of nicotine doesn't it?



indeed it does. I have tried to give up before, and after a few days gave in, and boy did it make me light headed, but being a drug, well I just had to have another. Stupid woman


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Its an awful lot of money. I try not to think of how much I have spent over 40 years


Very true, as for me Mrs Smoo used to smoke as well, not as many as me but never the less


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> Very true, as for me Mrs Smoo used to smoke as well, not as many as me but never the less



OMG? Scary


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> OMG? Scary


What is scary is we'd have an ashtray in the bedroom as well, and last thing at night before going to sleep we'd both be sat up in bed and smoking our last fags of the day. Then we'd go to sleep with all that stale smoke hanging in the air as well 

We were forever decorating as well when we smoked, it's amazing how much longer decor lasts when it's not being enveloped by smoke and tar 

Tell you what, it's good therapy this thread, these memory's are certainly not making me want a fag now


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## MontyVeda (19 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> That's a lot of money!


A few years ago I was talking to my cousin and her hubby... they both smoke 20 a day and were spending more on smoking each month than they were their mortgage.


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## Cold (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> What is scary is we'd have an ashtray in the bedroom as well, and last thing at night before going to sleep we'd both be sat up in bed and smoking our last fags of the day. Then we'd go to sleep with all that stale smoke hanging in the air as well
> 
> We were forever decorating as well when we smoked, it's amazing how much longer decor lasts when it's not being enveloped by smoke and tar
> 
> Tell you what, it's good therapy this thread, these memory's are certainly not making me want a fag now




I used to wake up in the middle of the night and light up then fall asleep with one in my hand so many times I burnt my fingers the duvet or the carpet I'm amazed I didn't burn the house down to be honest.
Looking back the smart thing would have been to leave them in another room but I wasn't very smart back then.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

At least I never smoked in bed, thank god. And yes it is good therapy. There is a smoking no more thread for people to have a look at as well.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Lets face it. None of us were the sharpest tools in the box. If we had been, none of us would have started the habit in the first place


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Lets face it. None of us were the sharpest tools in the box. If we had been, none of us would have started the habit in the first place


Amen to that


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## mr messy (19 Apr 2014)

From ecig advertising the impression i get is they're not an aid to stop smoking but in fact quite the opposite! They are marketed as a way around the smoking ban. The users i know have no desire nor interest to give up and use it where they can't light up, just as it was intended. This 100% water vapour exhale, if tested, i'm sure would be bs. Don't need an ecig to look at or smell your own breath in normal human body workings!
Just another money making scheme exploiting and encouraging addiction. If it wasn't the manufacturers' wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to avoid testing.
If proved to stop smoking without addiction to "vaping" and with zero emissions *then* i'll be happy to approve.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

mr messy said:


> From ecig advertising the impression i get is they're not an aid to stop smoking but in fact quite the opposite! They are marketed as a way around the smoking ban. The users i know have no desire nor interest to give up and use it where they can't light up, just as it was intended. This 100% water vapour exhale, if tested, i'm sure would be bs. Don't need an ecig to look at or smell your own breath in normal human body workings!
> Just another money making scheme exploiting and encouraging addiction. If it wasn't the manufacturers' wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to avoid testing.
> If proved to stop smoking without addiction to "vaping" and with zero emissions *then* i'll be happy approve.



It is a shame, that people may be using them to get round the ban . They would be a very useful tool in helping people to give up.


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## Dave the Smeghead (19 Apr 2014)

Amazing how this thread has developed from a question on electronic cigarettes to the ex smokers being thankful for giving up.

Those that have given up please keep it up, those that relapse keep trying.

Having never smoked, and then reading on here how expensive it is (if you don't smoke you don't really appreciate the cost of a packet) I am so pleased never to have started. Means I have more money to spend on bike bits (as long as the wife doesn't realise how much I have spent on bike bits).
When I die I hope the wife doesn't sell my bike gear for what I have told her I paid for it! Someone would be in for a right bargain!


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

I know a guy who 'vapes' and has absolutely no intention of giving up. He's also a gadget freak and now has a battery on his e-cig similar to this,







The bloody thing even has a USB port on it so you can power your phone/tablet from it!!!


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

smokeysmoo said:


> I know a guy who 'vapes' and has absolutely no intention of giving up. He's also a gadget freak and now has a battery on his e-cig similar to this,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its people like that that, will get them banned. Stupid man.


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

Only read OP so far but as far as I'm aware nicotine is odourless so don't get where the smell is coming from cos the smell from a real cig is tobacco .
Doing well you any harm I doubt it because the nicotine is delivered via a vapour unlike a cig and the nicotine e is absorbed Instanly into the Inside of the cheek so all that's being exhaled is vapour .
Right that's my 2 cents I'll go read the rest


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I think everyone would agree that regulation is needed. Its important to know what is in these things, otherwise they could be just as bad as ordinary cigarettes.


The Ingredients are on the bottle and considering they do t contain the thousands of carsanogenic ingredients a cig does I doubt they are as dangerous . juice contains 3 things glucose based carrier , nicotine and the flavour .


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> The Ingredients are on the bottle and considering they do t contain the thousands of carsanogenic ingredients a cig does I doubt they are as dangerous . juice contains 3 things glucose based carrier , nicotine and the flavour .



In that case, the powers that be should a) leave them alone but b) ban them from public places just like cigerattes. That way anti smokers will be happy, smokers trying to give up, will be happy, but those who are just exploiting the ban will be miffed to hell


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> In that case, the powers that be should ban them from public places just like cigarettes.


Looks like Wales is making a START with that.


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

The reason they can't be marketed as an aid to giving up smoking is because there no clinical trial to prove it , but let's look at me and I can say a few others have done the same .
When I first got an ecig I used three batteries and charged each one three times so that's 9 . I filled the cig 4 times a day and smoked 24 mg nicotine .
Now at about 200 and something days I use one battery a day and only put juice in once a day so I've reduced usage , I've also reduced nicotine levels to 12mg so you tell me are they helping me give up or not oh and I don't stink like an ashtray either


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> The reason they can't be marketed as an aid to giving up smoking is because there no clinical trial to prove it , but let's look at me and I can say a few others have done the same .
> When I first got an ecig I used three batteries and charged each one three times so that's 9 . I filled the cig 4 times a day and smoked 24 mg nicotine .
> Now at about 200 and something days I use one battery a day and only put juice in once a day so I've reduced usage , I've also reduced nicotine levels to 12mg so you tell me are they helping me give up or not oh and I don't stink like an ashtray either



Good for you. And yes Wales is seeing sense perhaps?


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> In that case, the powers that be should a) leave them alone but b) ban them from public places just like cigerattes. That way anti smokers will be happy, smokers trying to give up, will be happy, but those who are just exploiting the ban will be miffed to hell


Yep and while they're at it ban vegetarians from restaraunts cos they put me off my rare steak looking all pale and thin lol


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> Yep and while they're at it ban vegetarians from restaraunts cos they put me off my rare steak looking all pale and thin lol




AMEN to that.


----------



## mr messy (19 Apr 2014)

Surely if manufacturers are selling ecigs as an *alternative cigarette* rather than medicinal *alternative to a* *cigarette* then they should be treated the same as a real one?


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

I think they would like them to be a medicinal alternative, then they wouldn't be treated like normal cigarettes.


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

mr messy said:


> Surely if manufacturers are selling ecigs as an *alternative cigarette* rather than medicinal *alternative to a* *cigarette* then they should be treated the same as a real one?


Why would they be treated as a normal cig tmk nicotine is not a carcinogen and an ecig doesnt contain the poisons such as arsenic that a cig does . The o my reason they want it as a Medicine is so they can charge silly money for it like patches


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

Also if it was treated as a Medicine they couldnt enforce a ban surely because you can't stop someone taking medicine


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> Why would they be treated as a normal cig tmk nicotine is not a carcinogen and an ecig doesnt contain the poisons such as arsenic that a cig does . The o my reason they want it as a Medicine is so they can charge silly money for it like patches



The fact is they dont know if they are harmful or not because no research has been done. Who knows if nicotine on its own is dangerous or not.


Colin B said:


> Also if it was treated as a Medicine they couldnt enforce a ban surely because you can't stop someone taking medicine



to many people ie non smoking nimbys would be up in arms if people are allowed to use them as a medicine, and some would he using them as a excuse to smoke in place they cant at the moment


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

I treat mine like a cig I still go outside to use it. I figure by the end of this year I will be off it fully but getting g back to the op I won't have it they stink cos it simy ain't true my wife don't smoke and even she said they don't


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## migrantwing (19 Apr 2014)

Agreed! They don't smell at all. There are plenty of non-smokers around me and I've asked them about it and they've all said that there is no smell.

I smoke, have done for over 25 years. I used to smoke Marlboro Reds but the eventual price (nearly £9 for 20) turned me on to roll ups. I've tried various nicotine replacements such as gum and patches, Niquitin mints etc, all to no avail. I've been using an e-cig (highest dosage of 16mg nicotine) for a fair few months now and, although it does help with cravings, it doesn't really kill the craving completely. I tried the cold turkey treatment last week and managed about 15 hours before finally succumbing and running to the Tobacco kiosk at ASDA when doing my grocery shopping. It's definitely just as much a mental battle as a physical one. Evil b**tard things!

Well done and my utmost respect for those who have quit!


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

migrantwing said:


> I smoke, have done for over 25 years. I used to smoke Marlboro Reds but the eventual price (nearly £9 for 20) turned me on to roll ups. I've tried various nicotine replacements such as gum and patches, Niquitin mints etc, all to no avail. I've been using an e-cig (highest dosage of 16mg nicotine) for a fair few months now and, although it does help with cravings, it doesn't really kill the craving completely. I tried the cold turkey treatment last week and managed about 15 hours before finally succumbing and running to the Tobacco kiosk at ASDA when doing my grocery shopping. Evil b**tard things!


They sell 24 mg mate that should help


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

migrantwing said:


> Agreed! They don't smell at all. There are plenty of non-smokers around me and I've asked them about it and they've all said that there is no smell.
> 
> I smoke, have done for over 25 years. I used to smoke Marlboro Reds but the eventual price (nearly £9 for 20) turned me on to roll ups. I've tried various nicotine replacements such as gum and patches, Niquitin mints etc, all to no avail. I've been using an e-cig (highest dosage of 16mg nicotine) for a fair few months now and, although it does help with cravings, it doesn't really kill the craving completely. I tried the cold turkey treatment last week and managed about 15 hours before finally succumbing and running to the Tobacco kiosk at ASDA when doing my grocery shopping. Evil b**tard things!



You have to reallly really want to give up. There will come a time when that happens. Until then don't give up giving up. Hang on in there


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

Oh forgot to add also don't smoke it like a normal cig take longer steady draws and do it for around 12 minutes again this should help


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## migrantwing (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> They sell 24 mg mate that should help



Didn't know that. Cheers, Colin!


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## migrantwing (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> You have to reallly really want to give up. There will come a time when that happens. Until then don't give up giving up. Hang on in there



Agreed, welsh dragon. I'm at that point, or thereabouts. For me, I think it's purely habit and if I try to go without my brain keeps on with those 'you know you're missing it' mind games. It's also down to moments of boredom and concentration with me. 

I aim to quit before I hit 40. 38 and counting... 

Thanks for the encouragement


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

migrantwing said:


> Agreed, welsh dragon. I'm at that point, or thereabouts. For me, I think it's purely habit and if I try to go without my brain keeps on with those 'you know you're missing it' mind games. It's also down to moments of boredom and concentration with me.
> 
> I aim to quit before I hit 40. 38 and counting...
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement



Anytime.


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

migrantwing said:


> Didn't know that. Cheers, Colin!


Your first reaction when buying one is to treat it like a real one mate I did it and got a sore throat , but once you take longer steady draws and dont on it so hard it does the job inhaling isn't really needed either as the nicotine e is absorbed Immediately into your cheeks it never gets to the lungs like smoke does so basically holding the vapour in your mouth does the same but feel free to Inhale . Also try cutting two together like apple with Virginia that way your taking the taste away also keep going at high strength then buy one at lower then two and so on till you've dropped strength the repeat when you feel you can.

Oh and sorry to op for kinda highjacking the thread


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## Roadrider48 (19 Apr 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> A few years ago I was talking to my cousin and her hubby... they both smoke 20 a day and were spending more on smoking each month than they were their mortgage.


Wow! That is shocking.


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## Peteaud (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> Only read OP so far but as far as I'm aware nicotine is odourless so don't get where the smell is coming from cos the smell from a real cig is tobacco .
> Doing well you any harm I doubt it because the nicotine is delivered via a vapour unlike a cig and the nicotine e is absorbed Instanly into the Inside of the cheek so all that's being exhaled is vapour .
> Right that's my 2 cents I'll go read the rest




E Cigs are not as safe as some might think. :-

From :- http://www.tobacco.ucsf.edu/10-chem...nia-prop-65-list-carcinogens-and-reproductive


California's landmark Proposition 65, the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986, was enacted as a ballot initiative in November 1986. The Proposition was intended by its authors to protect California citizens and the State's drinking water sources from chemicals known to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm, and to inform citizens about exposures to such chemicals.

Proposition 65 requires the Governor to publish, at least annually, a list of chemicals known to the state to cause cancer or reproductive toxicity.

Products containing chemicals on the Proposition 65 list are required to carry the following warning in California: "*WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm*."

The following compounds that are on the Proposition 65 list have already been identified in mainstream or secondhand (sidestream) e-cigarette vapor:

Acetaldehyde (MS)
Benzene (SS)
Cadmium (MS)
Formaldehyde (MS,SS)
Isoprene (SS)
Lead (MS)
Nickel (MS)
Nicotine (MS, SS)
N-Nitrosonornicotine (MS, SS)
Toluene (MS, SS)

As the two papers linked above note, there are other toxic chemicals in the vapor as well as ultrafine particles, that likely have cardiovascular effects.

E-cigarettes do not deliver "pure nicotine" and "harmless water vapor."



Just remember, Asbestos was once a space age super product that was the answer to many things.....


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> E Cigs are not as safe as some might think. :-
> 
> From :- http://www.tobacco.ucsf.edu/10-chem...nia-prop-65-list-carcinogens-and-reproductive
> 
> ...


I'm not saying they are safe but they are a 100 times safer than cigs and if they help me give up its good


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## Peteaud (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> I'm not saying they are safe but they are a 100 times safer than cigs and if they help me give up its good



If they help you give up then good, and i hope you manage to quit the weed, but some are using both cigs and e cigs.

The one thing i can recommend is the Nicotine mouth squirter, can't remember who made it, but it helped me (20 a day for 30 years before i quit).


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

It might be niquitin. I think.


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## Colin B (19 Apr 2014)

Just pitting something to post now on how I did it and my thoughts hopefully it may help others cos so far I'm fine ding it easy


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## Peteaud (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> It might be niquitin. I think.



This one.

http://www.nicorette.co.uk/products/quick-mist

I used only the one to get me through the 1st week or so, and although it gave me very bad hiccups, it did the job.


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> This one.
> 
> http://www.nicorette.co.uk/products/quick-mist
> 
> I used only the one to get me through the 1st week or so, and although it gave me very bad hiccups, it did the job.



Ooops


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## smokeysmoo (19 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> I won't have it they stink cos it simy ain't true my wife don't smoke and even she said they don't


The ones I've been in close proximity too have definitely given off a smell immediately after the owner has vaped. It dissipates very quickly and it's not even a smoky stinky smell, and actually not unpleasant IMO, it's more a chemically sweet smell, (with a fruity juice anyway). Perhaps it's down to the brand of juice being used?


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## harly (19 Apr 2014)

haveing tried a couple of different flavoured liquids some definately do have a slight aroma and some dont ,certainly not unpleasant like cig smoke , the fruit flavoured liquids ive tried smell just like the fruit , the tabacco ones are a bit more noticable


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## germanicdogman (19 Apr 2014)

speaking as a e-cig user i had no intentions of quitting,it is a safer alternative .
as for all the bs scaremongering it's just like a daily mail head line .


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## welsh dragon (19 Apr 2014)

harly said:


> haveing tried a couple of different flavoured liquids some definately do have a slight aroma and some dont ,certainly not unpleasant like cig smoke , the fruit flavoured liquids ive tried smell just like the fruit , the tabacco ones are a bit more noticable



I have never seen anyone using one.


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## germanicdogman (19 Apr 2014)

QuickMist Mouth Spray 1mg nicotine/spray
Propylene glycol
Anhydrous ethanol
Trometamol
Poloxamer 407
Glycerol
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Levomenthol
Mint flavour
Cooling flavour
Sucralose
Acesulfame potassium
Hydrochloric acid
Purified water
far more chemicals than my ecig i mix my own e juice pharma grade ingredients
propylene glycol 40%
vegetable glycerine 50%
nicotine 1.2% (12mg)
flavorings make up the rest


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## Paul99 (19 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> The fact is they dont know if they are harmful or not because no research has been done. Who knows if nicotine on its own is dangerous or not.
> 
> 
> to many people ie non smoking nimbys would be up in arms if people are allowed to use them as a medicine, and some would he using them as a excuse to smoke in place they cant at the moment


 There have been studies done and nicotine is only dangerous if consumed in large quantities. There are plenty of vegetables that are sources of nicotine that people eat regularly, i haven't seen any reports of aubergine related nicotine deaths yet.



Peteaud said:


> E Cigs are not as safe as some might think. :-
> 
> From :- http://www.tobacco.ucsf.edu/10-chem...nia-prop-65-list-carcinogens-and-reproductive
> 
> ...


 the e-cigs that were used in this study i believe were the over the counter variety produced by the big tobacco companies, so it's not surprising that they are full of crap chemicals.

Most vapers are using eliquids produced here in the UK, and are as safe as they come. The ingredients used in them are used in plenty of everyday foods and things like asthma inhalers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol
Food flavourings
Nicotine

Obviously the addictive nature of nicotine is the bad apple in eliquid, but it is much, much safer to get your fix vaping than it is to smoke regular cigs.

@Dave the Smeghead you are far more likely to be harmed by the fumes from cars when walking down the street than you are by an e-cig.


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

Paul99 said:


> There have been studies done and nicotine is only dangerous if consumed in large quantities. There are plenty of vegetables that are sources of nicotine that people eat regularly, i haven't seen any reports of aubergine related nicotine deaths yet.
> 
> the e-cigs that were used in this study i believe were the over the counter variety produced by the big tobacco companies, so it's not surprising that they are full of crap chemicals.
> 
> ...



I take it you don't like vegetables very much


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

Paul99 said:


> Obviously the addictive nature of nicotine is the bad apple in eliquid, but it is much, much safer to get your fix vaping than it is to smoke regular cigs.
> .



I agree with you, however, my worry is that Vaping will run alongside smoking, thus creating a whole bunch addicted to Nicotine. I don't care how "safe" nicotine is, it is still an addiction.


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## Simmer (20 Apr 2014)

Some of the advertising at the moment is glamorising Vaping, which is one thing I don't like. reminds me of the old cigarette ad's. For smokers wanting to reduce the amount they smoke, or to be used as a quitting aid they are great, but to promote them to none smokers as this cool new thing.... no. 

There's the VIP "I want to put it in my mouth" .. oooeeeerrr and the then from British American Tobacco who are behind Vype we have 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAMUXNeY6Y


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## Paul99 (20 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> I agree with you, however, my worry is that Vaping will run alongside smoking, thus creating a whole bunch addicted to Nicotine. I don't care how "safe" nicotine is, it is still an addiction.


 I have to agree with you because nicotine is addictive, but is it any more addictive than sugar? Is it going to create problems for society for people to be addicted to nicotine? I don't think it will and so therefore can't really see any problem with it.



Simmer said:


> Some of the advertising at the moment is glamorising Vaping, which is one thing I don't like. reminds me of the old cigarette ad's. For smokers wanting to reduce the amount they smoke, or to be used as a quitting aid they are great, but to promote them to none smokers as this cool new thing.... no.
> 
> There's the VIP "I want to put it in my mouth" .. oooeeeerrr and the then from British American Tobacco who are behind Vype we have
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAMUXNeY6Y


 This is a problem and is the reason that any proposed legislation against vapng has to be resisted. If big tobaco and big pharma get their way, the micro enterprises that are currently producing the liquids and selling the hardware in the UK are regulated or taxed out of existence then you will only be able to buy from big T and big P, and these are the guys with the vested interest in getting more and more people to use them with the budgets for these type of ads.

http://www.efvi.eu/#sign (cheeky link)


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

I don't know about anyone else, but when I started smoking, I didn't give the packaging, or tv/cinema advertisements a second glance. For me, it had nothing to do with being cool or not, or what other people thought, or peer pressure. I simply wanted to try a cigarette, and got hooked. The end


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

Paul99 said:


> I have to agree with you because nicotine is addictive, but is it any more addictive than sugar? Is it going to create problems for society for people to be addicted to nicotine? I don't think it will and so therefore can't really see any problem with it.
> 
> )



We will have to agree to disagree. For me any addiction can become a problem, because it is an addiction.


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but when I started smoking, I didn't give the packaging, or tv/cinema advertisements a second glance. For me, it had nothing to do with being cool or not, or what other people thought, or peer pressure. I simply wanted to try a cigarette, and got hooked. The end



Well i didn't look at the shiney gold pack and think hmmmmmmmm give me those.


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## Roadrider48 (20 Apr 2014)

As long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's life, smokers of cigs or vaporise or anyone else for that matter should just be left in peace to live their lives as THEY see fit.
Too many people sticking their noses in to other peoples affairs.


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> Well i didn't look at the shiney gold pack and think hmmmmmmmm give me those.



I wish I could blame it on shiny shiny packaging. It's always nice to blame someone or something else, makes us feel better IE its not my fault gov, but I can't. Its was all my own fault.


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## migrantwing (20 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> This one.
> 
> http://www.nicorette.co.uk/products/quick-mist
> 
> I used only the one to get me through the 1st week or so, and although it gave me very bad hiccups, it did the job.



I also noticed the hiccups...and a burning sensation in the throat and on the tongue. Needless to say I didn't use it for long.


----------



## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

migrantwing said:


> I also noticed the hiccups...and a burning sensation in the throat and on the tongue. Needless to say I didn't use it for long.


Did you know the only reason a real cig didn't burn your throat was the anaesthetic they put in the tobacco . With ecigs not sure whether its too higher strength hiccuping I read that's due to drawing too hard on it


----------



## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> I agree with you, however, my worry is that Vaping will run alongside smoking, thus creating a whole bunch addicted to Nicotine. I don't care how "safe" nicotine is, it is still an addiction.


So is caffeine addiction should we limit how many coffees we can drink , many things can be addictive but are still OK in society .Haven't got a coke bottle handy but there's an ingredient in that on the banned list yet we allow our children to consume it in coke and other carbonated drinks


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## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

Simmer said:


> Some of the advertising at the moment is glamorising Vaping, which is one thing I don't like. reminds me of the old cigarette ad's. For smokers wanting to reduce the amount they smoke, or to be used as a quitting aid they are great, but to promote them to none smokers as this cool new thing.... no.
> 
> There's the VIP "I want to put it in my mouth" .. oooeeeerrr and the then from British American Tobacco who are behind Vype we have
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAMUXNeY6Y



Advertising should banned and I use one don't glamourise it that's stupid of the advertisers


----------



## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

You drinking coke or coffee does not affect other people though does it? And although coffee may be bad today, tomorrow it may not. Spuds are bad, potatoes are bad. Tea is bad, bread is bad., etc


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> So is caffeine addiction should we limit how many coffees we can drink , many things can be addictive but are still OK in society .Haven't got a coke bottle handy but there's an ingredient in that on the banned list yet we allow our children to consume it in coke and other carbonated drinks



Coffee and Nicotine are somewhat different.
No my Daughter when she was younger was not allowed coffee or coke for that matter.
How about chewing tobacco for kids, aka skol bandits?
How many hi caffine "energy drinks" would you let a child drink, no limit?

It is where you draw the line.


----------



## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)




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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

FWIW, these are pro smoking.

http://www.forestonline.org/

Someone will always have their point of view.

Now, as i have said i am an ex smoker, but i disagree with the pub smoking ban. Why, again, give people the choice. If it is legal, then let them decide. It should be up to the landlord.


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

That's the problem with the whole subject. On the one hand the government won't ban smoking and in fact grab all the money they can from it, but on the other hand, they treat smokers like lepers. Making them go outside, etc. Making them feel like they should hang they're heads in shame.

What do they want for gods sake.


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> That's the problem with the whole subject. On the one hand the government won't ban smoking and in fact grab all the money they can from it, but on the other hand, they treat smokers like lepers. Making them go outside, etc. Making them feel like they should hang they're heads in shame.
> 
> What do they want for gods sake.



I agree.

What people do should be up to them, its is their body, their choice (as long as it is legsal, etc)

I have no problem with smokers, vapors(?) drinkers etc, just dont try to force it on me.


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## Roadrider48 (20 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> You drinking coke or coffee does not affect other people though does it? And although coffee may be bad today, tomorrow it may not. Spuds are bad, potatoes are bad. Tea is bad, bread is bad., etc


Life is bad!


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Life is bad!



Some of it is yes.


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## Roadrider48 (20 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Some of it is yes.


Only joking, I couldn't resist.


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## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


>


Done all of them but I draw the line at Pepsi that stuff will kill yer


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## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

OK I've googled the amounts that would kill you and although caffeine is nearly 4 x as much as nicotine the amounts of each is not a lot LD = lethal death
For caffeine, the LD-50 is 192 mg/kg of body weight.
For nicotine, the LD-50 is only 50 mg/kg.
and for ethanol (alcohol), it's 6300 mg/kg
On a side note cheese sandwiches can be killers too my uncle died eating one he choked on it after the bus hit him be careful of cheese lads its lethal


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

I've heard vegetables are bad for you as well. Especially sprouts.


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## Peteaud (20 Apr 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I've heard vegetables are bad for you as well. Especially sprouts.


----------



## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

See. See I told you they were bad for you


----------



## Dave the Smeghead (20 Apr 2014)

Paul99 said:


> There have been studies done and nicotine is only dangerous if consumed in large quantities. There are plenty of vegetables that are sources of nicotine that people eat regularly, i haven't seen any reports of aubergine related nicotine deaths yet.
> 
> the e-cigs that were used in this study i believe were the over the counter variety produced by the big tobacco companies, so it's not surprising that they are full of crap chemicals.
> 
> ...



Not if it is one of those new fangled battery powered jobbies - I just wouldn't want to be anywhere near when they come to get rid of the expired battery packs.



Colin B said:


> So is caffeine addiction should we limit how many coffees we can drink , many things can be addictive but are still OK in society .Haven't got a coke bottle handy but there's an ingredient in that on the banned list yet we allow our children to consume it in coke and other carbonated drinks



I don't drink those drinks anymore, and don't allow my children to either. The ingredient you are thinking of is aspartame. It isused as a sweetner but it is a carcinogen (cancer causing compound). Although sometimes I do fancy a coke or lemonade but then think about the detriment to my health and the craving goes away. Now if I could only do the same with cake I would be laughing


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## welsh dragon (20 Apr 2014)

Dont be silly man. Cake is one of your 5 a day


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Apr 2014)

Colin B said:


> OK I've googled the amounts that would kill you and although caffeine is nearly 4 x as much as nicotine the amounts of each is not a lot LD = lethal death
> For caffeine, the LD-50 is 192 mg/kg of body weight.
> For nicotine, the LD-50 is only 50 mg/kg.
> and for ethanol (alcohol), it's 6300 mg/kg
> On a side note cheese sandwiches can be killers too my uncle died eating one he choked on it after the bus hit him be careful of cheese lads its lethal


Are you sure that LD doesn't stand for Lethal Dose? Because death's usually rather lethal.

Anyhow, my Italian aunt choked to death on a plum and a bunch of grapes saw off my Swiss grandmother.


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## Colin B (20 Apr 2014)

L


deptfordmarmoset said:


> Are you sure that LD doesn't stand for Lethal Dose? Because death's usually rather lethal.
> 
> Anyhow, my Italian aunt choked to death on a plum and a bunch of grapes saw off my Swiss grandmother.


Lmao I've been waiting for it but mine sounded so much more dangerous OK I own up I used dramatic licence


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## migrantwing (21 Apr 2014)

Peteaud said:


> FWIW, these are pro smoking.
> 
> http://www.forestonline.org/
> 
> ...



Since the smoking ban, I've not been out as much as I used to, very, very rarely in fact. I was out at the very least 5 nights a week. You have to take into consideration the fact that alcohol prices have gone up, but the smoking ban has definitely had a HUGE influence on how many pubs and clubs have closed down. I was a professional musician in the early 90's through the first decade of the 00's and I'd say 70% of the places I played and visited in that time have also closed down...and I'm talking countrywide. Some of the places I played were prestigious venues that are now rubble or a car park or block of flats, or worse still, just lying dormant and derelict. All the people who worked at these places lost their livelihood and the people who lived and worked on the premises lost everything. Why didn't they just bring back the old 'smoke room' in pubs? These days, they could have an excellent extractor system fitted, both smokers and non smokers would be happy. A lot of places tried the old beer garden with patio heater trick, but then the prices of the heaters went up to a ridiculous price. There is something very cosy about visiting a pub in the Winter, all gathered around a coal fire having a smoke. Who in their right mind would want to trek down to the pub, get warm on a Winters day then have to go outside in the elements for a nicotine fix? Not I. Been there, done that, no thanks. Then you think of the money you save buy not buying beer at the pub and why would you want to spend that much money in a place where half your time is spent outdoors in crap weather.


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## migrantwing (21 Apr 2014)

The other thing that non-smokers (the ones who are self righteous and moan about smoking so much) seem to forget is that the more they cast us aside as 'lepers' and turn smokers into non-smokers, the country will lose money because more people are kicking the habit due to peer pressure and morals. The huge drop in profit from tobacco sales and tax has to be made up somewhere else. The cost of food, bills and other everyday things goes up to make up for that loss. Then they'll start moaning about that, too. As has been said in this thread already, if you want to smoke, smoke, if you don't want to smoke, don't. Simple as that. I am hoping to be added to the list of non-smokers in the near future, but I won't complain about smokers when I do. The ironic thing is that you see non-smokers belting out cr*p from their cars every day, polluting the atmosphere. They'll do more damage to people and the eco system with their cars and carbon footprints in a year than I will in a whole lifetime of smoking.


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## tyred (22 Apr 2014)

I would consider mine one of the best investments I have ever made - saved money, no more smoker's cough or wheezing, no more getting out of bed feeling like death warmed up, no more wasting my life planning when I can next get slipped outside for a fag, no more smelly clothes. I'm a Salsa dancer and depending on the brand, dancing with a smoker can almost turn my stomach now. I cringe to think I used to put non-smoking girls through that and didn't even realise.

Some types of the liquid do have a smell but it doesn't linger in the way tobacco smoke does. Some of the tobacco flavours aren't at all nice. I still have the remains of the first bottle I bought. I spent ages in the shop sampling all the tobacco flavoured ones to find something as close as possible to my preferred brand of rollies. The girl in the shop told me I was wasting my time as I would be back in a few days wanting something that actually tasted nice as I would quickly realise fags taste disgusting. She was right


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## Dave the Smeghead (22 Apr 2014)

Well it got solved today. I spoke to the Officer Commanding for the unit and showed him some of the research that has been done and he decided to ban them from the building.
Thanks for all your comments.


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## welsh dragon (22 Apr 2014)

Dave the Smeghead said:


> Well it got solved today. I spoke to the Officer Commanding for the unit and showed him some of the research that has been done and he decided to ban them from the building.
> Thanks for all your comments.



I still have to sit on the fence about this. There will be people who use ecigs as a cheap alternative to cigarettes, while others are really using them to try to give up smoking


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## mrbikerboy73 (30 Apr 2014)

The only thing that helps you to give up smoking is to stop doing it. Patches, e-cigs, inhalers, all rubbish and a poor excuse to carry on. It's easy if you want to do it.


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## Alun (30 Apr 2014)

mrbikerboy73 said:


> The only thing that helps you to give up smoking is to stop doing it. Patches, e-cigs, inhalers, all rubbish and a poor excuse to carry on. It's easy if you want to do it.


The only part I would disagree with is the "easy" bit, I can't think that anyone would find it easy, but it is achievable if you want to.


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