# another F@@@ S@@@ CRAP moment



## ricky1980 (29 Apr 2013)

the actual words i used were "Shss....F*&king Hell!"


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## MickeyBlueEyes (29 Apr 2013)

As User asks, could you of done something different ? I certainly know I wouldn't of put myself in the position you found yourself in.


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## monkeylc (29 Apr 2013)

Car is signaling to turn left from the back of the bus? Why not just drop back a bit?


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## redcard (29 Apr 2013)

You didn't really give yourself much of a chance. I think I would have let the car go and slotted in behind it.


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## Hip Priest (29 Apr 2013)

I personally wouldn't have filtered in that situation. I'd have sat behind the Golf in primary until past the bus. Other opinions may vary.


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## 400bhp (29 Apr 2013)

You spent all that time arsing about with editing the vid. Spend the time working out what you should be doing on the road.


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## fossyant (29 Apr 2013)

Another vid for Gaz's stupid cyclists episodes. You got yourself into that, there wasn't space.


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## ricky1980 (29 Apr 2013)

actually i figured the car was indicating that he/she was trying to get in front of the bus as the car before it, which is why i didn't try to over take the car. but then i realised it was cutting across and going into a side road and going to run me over. the video slowed down a 3 second footage.

in all circumstances, the car should have checked the sides before turning. I and the car had a right to over take the parked bus, and the initial gap was plenty space for me and the car to go through as the previous cyclist demonstrated and the fact the car before the Golf was a big saloon

If you say you don't get into this sort of situation then basically that means you are to sit behind every motor vehicle in front of you in all situation. well that's a very conservative riding style, it may be the safest but I do not prefer it. going through the traffic is the benefit of a bike and a scooter so why forfeit that advantage. 

also i didn't notice the signal of the car, until it started to cut across my path while i was next tot he bus. not a lot i can do at that point!


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## paulw1969 (29 Apr 2013)

Personally I would have shoulder checked to see where the car which was almost parallel at the start of the video well before the bus and taken primary if there was room......as it happens you have created a pinch point with the bus by trying to filter a "reverse close pass"??.....alternatively I would have just pulled up behind the bus if it looked remotely like there was no room to take primary. 
However we all make mistakes and its easy for me to say watching the video several times from the comfort of my keyboard. One to learn from I think....cycle and stay safe OP


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## 400bhp (29 Apr 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> actually i figured the car was indicating that he/she was trying to get in front of the bus as the car before it, which is why i didn't try to over take the car. but then i realised it was cutting across and going into a side road and going to run me over. the video slowed down a 3 second footage.
> 
> in all circumstances, the car should have checked the sides before turning. I and the car had a right to over take the parked bus, and the initial gap was plenty space for me and the car to go through as the previous cyclist demonstrated and the fact the car before the Golf was a 7 seater
> 
> If you say you don't get into this sort of situation then basically that means you are to sit behind every motor vehicle in front of you in all situation. well that's a very conservative riding style, it may be the safest but I do not prefer it. going through the traffic is the benefit of a bike and a scooter so why forfeit that advantage so idiot drivers can get away with being crap?!


 
Here we go, another cammer who will not admit when wrong.


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## fossyant (29 Apr 2013)

The car was in front of you when it started to pass the bus. You shoved yourself between them. Classic example of why many cyclists get squashed near big vehicles. Dont ride in blind spots nor try and squeeze through.


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## boybiker (29 Apr 2013)

The car was signalling to turn left and did. Even if you hadn't of noticed until the actual junction a sharp pull on the brakes would of got you out of danger but you kept going.


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## Nigeyy (29 Apr 2013)

I don't think I would have been in that position either... however:

i. doesn't excuse the lack of indicator or not looking before turning by the car driver
ii. I do wonder if you entered the car driver's blind spot though if you look back at the video. I'm not even sure the driver could see you easily even if s/he had looked based on that door pillar position.
iii. I wouldn't want to be squeezed between the two!

I'd be interested to see your interpretation of it though. Always good for learning -sorry you had that experience.


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## thom (29 Apr 2013)

Take care mate if you plan on doing that again !


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## redcard (29 Apr 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> If you say you don't get into this sort of situation then basically that means you are to sit behind every motor vehicle in front of you in all situation. well that's a very conservative riding style, it may be the safest but I do not prefer it. going through the traffic is the benefit of a bike and a scooter so why forfeit that advantage.



So are you saying the only two riding styles are very conservative, or your method, which is riding like an idiot?

The truth is, the answer is somewhere in between, and if you we're a sensible rider you would know that.


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## Gary E (29 Apr 2013)

Sorry, I know this is a cycle forum but I have to side with the car driver on this one. Couldn't believe you kept going in what was, right from the start, going to be a small gap getting even smaller. Sorry


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## DCLane (29 Apr 2013)

They were signalling left as you came up to them = your fault I'm afraid.


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## Hip Priest (29 Apr 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> If you say you don't get into this sort of situation then basically that means you are to sit behind every motor vehicle in front of you in all situation.


 
No it doesn't. Filtering isn't black & white. We need to use our discretion. Sometimes we get it wrong. Putting yourself in the blind spot of a moving left-indicating vehicle is getting it wrong, in my opinion.


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## Andy_R (29 Apr 2013)

Sooo many things wrong here, and for once it's not the driver at fault. 1- trying to filter past a bus that you don't know when it's going to pull away. Overtake properly, in primary so the bus driver has a chance to see you. 2 - Continuing to attempt to filter when the driver is indicating that he/she is about to turn left and you are in his/her blind spot. Drop back a little (extending your commute by 2-3 seconds in a situation like this is going to extend your life by a good few decades and maybe eventually give you a chance to tell your grandchildren how to be patient.) 3 - listen to advice and take onboard constructive criticism. You were in the wrong in this instance. You clearly weren't fully aware of your surroundings otherwise you would have seen the "firefly" on the driver's wing mirror flashing away like a flashy thing. Be careful and stay safe


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## Slaav (29 Apr 2013)

I think I would not have gone for that gap!

Therefore I would not have posted this thread unless I was following you - and the thread would 'of' been very different. 

ps - I don't have a camera but am starting to notice a lot more motorcyclists that do.... and they really do need them!


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## Cycling Dan (29 Apr 2013)

Im on the fence somewhat.
Myself I most likely would have filtered, although I would have braked and moved behind the car once I noticed the indicator to come on. IMO there was enough room to filter.
Although some talk of the blind spot but I don't think you were in it. You can see the glass of the mirror so likely hood is the driver can see you. I doubt the driver looked so that's a contributing factor.
Although at 0:16 even on first watch it became clear what was going to happen and you should have braked to take yourself out of the situation. Continuing was only going to make it worse and it was clear the driver didn't know you were there, i think because they didn't look.
My look on it away.


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## 400bhp (29 Apr 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> Im on the fence somewhat.
> Myself I most likely would have filtered, although I would have braked and moved behind the car once I noticed the indicator to come on. IMO there was enough room to filter.
> Although some talk of the blind spot but I don't think you were in it. Y*ou can see the glass of the mirror so likely hood is the driver can see you.* I doubt the driver looked so that's a contributing factor.
> Although at 0:16 even on first watch it became clear what was going to happen and you should have braked to take yourself out of the situation. Continuing was only going to make it worse and it was clear the driver didn't know you were there, i think because they didn't look.
> My look on it away.


 
No


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## Cycling Dan (29 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> No


On the most part its true. Thats why i said likely hood. Clearly you can be out of the view of the mirror the way its curved but in this instance I wouldn't think he was in the blind spot. Going off the image I would say he was in the mirrors sight at around 0:15-16 when one would look.


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## Schneil (29 Apr 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> On the most part its true. Thats why i said likely hood. Clearly you can be out of the view of the mirror the way its curved but in this instance I wouldn't think he was in the blind spot. Going off the image I would say he was in the mirrors sight at around 0:15-16 when one would look.


 
Speaking of blind spots, I wouldn't have been that close to the bus. The blind spot on a bus is huge. They haven't got the extra mirrors that HGVs have and are almost as long.


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## Gary E (29 Apr 2013)

Surely the decision to filter has nothing to do with whether the driver should be able to see you or not. If you choose to filter in that situation you're gambling (with your life) that the driver will look in his mirror. Better to assume that he won't notice you and act appropriately surely?
I'm a driver and I cannot put my hand on my heart and say that I'm infallible (can anyone?), people make mistakes all the time.
If I'm the one likely to be paying the price (regardless of who's fault it is) then I choose not to risk my well-being by gambling that the driver will get it right.


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## MrJamie (29 Apr 2013)

I don't think starting filtering is a bad choice there, but it always puts you in a sort of no-mans land out of the traffic flow where IMHO it isn't safe to expect to be seen. You need to be hyper aware of turnings and possible car movements, and in this case the car driver seems to have given plenty of notice by indicating early enough.


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## addictfreak (29 Apr 2013)

Its simple really, if a vehcle is signaling left then stay away from his nearside until his intention is clear. There would be alot of cyclists alive today if they followed that rule.


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## Gary E (29 Apr 2013)

addictfreak said:


> Its simple really, if a vehcle is signaling left then stay away from his nearside until his intention is clear. There would be alot of cyclists alive today if they followed that rule.


Sad, but true.


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## buggi (30 Apr 2013)

Seriously mate, you undertook a left signalling car and squeezed up between it and the bus, in the car's blind spot. You should have dropped behind the car and took primary position in the 2nd lane to overtake the bus. I know you may feel that everyone is jumping down your throat right now, but you need to look at this video again and realise what you did wrong. Please do not mistake this for riding assertively; taking primary position behind the car as you overtake the bus would have been riding assertively. You may have also put yourself in the blind spot of the bus driver. Quite frankly, you're lucky you got away with that. but we all make mistakes, there is not one person on here that hasn't at some time. Watch the video again, learn from it, take a deep breath (phew!) and move on.

the bottom line is, whether he was indicating or not, you undertook him and squeezed between him and the bus. it was a risky move and you almost didn't make it. if he had hit you, and killed you, i doubt the police would prosecute him if they saw that video. you're only supposed to filter when it's safe to do so.


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## CopperCyclist (30 Apr 2013)

Don't filter past vehicles when there's a turning on the side you are filtering, unless they are stationary, and even then take care. 

You wouldn't have lost much speed or momentum to simply match the speed of the car whilst keeping behind it, even if it slows. Once it's cleared the hazard, if safe filter then. It doesn't hold you up, and it keeps you safe.


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## slowmotion (30 Apr 2013)

The car was indicating left and was in front of you. Totally bonkers to try and squeeze in front as it was making the turn.

I'm glad you're OK, BTW. We all make mistakes.


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## Matthew_T (30 Apr 2013)

Apart from putting yourself in that position, the driver could have seen you.
When I was taught to turn left and right, I learned that you check you rear view and left side mirror, then the blind spot, and then indicate. When you have reached the junction, you then check your left mirror again to see if a cyclist has appeared in it. If this driver had done just that, then they would have noticed the cyclist because he was in full view of the mirror.


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## 400bhp (30 Apr 2013)

The 2 people who have partially blamed the driver don't drive (haven't passed their test) have they? Wonder if the OP has too?

Just sayin


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## Cycling Dan (30 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> The 2 people who have partially blamed the driver don't drive (haven't passed their test) have they? Wonder if the OP has too?
> 
> Just sayin


Partly is an exaggeration more like a tiny bit. Although if he was in a blind spot then no fault on the drivers part.


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## BentMikey (30 Apr 2013)

Schneil said:


> Speaking of blind spots, I wouldn't have been that close to the bus. The blind spot on a bus is huge. They haven't got the extra mirrors that HGVs have and are almost as long.


 
I don't think the cyclist was in the bus driver's blind spot - you'd easily be able to see the bus driver in that position, so therefore the bus driver can see you.

He was however in the car driver's blind spot, and I suspect that the driver didn't expect him there, nor even look to check. Unwise filtering by the cyclist, IMO.


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## ManiaMuse (30 Apr 2013)

You can see that the bus ahead is stopped far ahead of you. You can also see that there is traffic in the other lane. The driver puts his indicator on before you are alongside yet you still go up the left of him and don't back out.

For future reference:

1) Take the lane much earlier
2) Do a shoulder check and see if there is a gap you can slot into in the other lane.
3) If you want to filter, do it on the right hand side of the rightmost lane. You are less likely to get SMIDSY'd, you can see oncoming traffic about to right hook you and you are less likely to get squashed or left hooked.
4) If you can see a dangerous situation developing, you are much better backing out of it or being pretty confident you can accelerate past it. No point being right if you're dead.


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## Boris Bajic (30 Apr 2013)

Accidents happen (luckily not here) and we all make mistakes. I've been in the OP's position through my own stupidity and it cost me a crushed toe (through Moto-X boots!) which later abscessed. Ouch! I retain the scar and wince when I remember the crunchiness of a London bus.

What is odd here is that the OP made this mistake, failed to see it and even posted an accusatory (for it is) video on Youtube. I hope the video has now been taken down.

Having been advised that he/she may have been culpable for the near miss, he/she persisted with the view that the fault lay elsewhere.

It does not. I'm with 400bhp, Fossyant and several others on this one. The OP got it badly (and almost painfully and expensively) wrong.

I'm with BM on the OP almost certainly being in the blind spot of the car. Vanity plates and the Golf Plus are criminal concepts, but the driving was not criminal.

OP, this was a free lesson for you. I'd sell the camera and spend a part of the proceeds on a copy of the Highway Code.


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## Andrew_P (30 Apr 2013)

Although I feel a bit sorry for the OP I am quite releived the majority go with how I saw it when it was first posted up last night.

The OP riding style pretty much matches how I rode for the first month, transferring my old Car driving attitude to a bike "must get in front" these days I wouldn't have even been there if the car wasn't indicating the fact there is a junction I would be expexcting the left turn. Won't comment on getting caught in a Bus & Car Sandwich.

My only caveat is that I do not ride in heavy slow moving traffic for the full length of my commute so not sure if I would up my aggressiveness on filtering if I had to travel with slow moving heavy traffic all the time.

I think if you remove the "must get in front" it removes you from a lot of self inflicted dodgy situations and always assume the other road users have not seen you/using a mobile/eating a sandwich or plain don't care.


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## BSRU (30 Apr 2013)

400bhp said:


> Here we go, another cammer who will not admit when wrong.


I'm always wrong, at least that what the misses keeps telling me

Agree with the majority opinion, car indicating left whilst you were behind therefore you should not have attempted to filter on the left.
Obviously written with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight


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## Markymark (30 Apr 2013)

I have a helmet cam and have posted a couple of dodgy manouvers by other roadusers.

I have also reviewd footage of points where it has become decidely scary and seen that my positioning was not the best. It is alwsy worth trying to keep an open mind when reviewing as you can read other people's posts all day long, but going through it for yourself and asking 'what would I do differently' will teach you far more.

That is not to say it is alwasy one sided. Sometimes it is 100% the other guy, sometimes 50-50 and sometimes 100% your fault (as in the OP).

I wouldn;t have done what you did and think everyone else can explain far better on here than I can as to what you should do next time. Learn from it.


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## VamP (30 Apr 2013)

Whee, that was cringeworthy the way you persevered in pushing on into that gap that was rapidly diminishing. Regardless of how risk averse you might be, there has to come a time when putting the brakes on becomes a matter of survival. Playing chicken with large metal boxes is not big nor is it clever. 

We all get things wrong at speed sometimes, but you seem to think that there was nothing wrong in the way you rode there even having reviewed it repeatedly before posting here. Like many others on here, I fear that your judgement is seriously flawed. Please reconsider your approach before you become a statistic.


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## ianrauk (30 Apr 2013)

Ignore an indicator and you will pay for it...and you did.


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## cd365 (30 Apr 2013)

Keep cycling like that and you will be the proud owner of your very own Darwin Award


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## Collider (30 Apr 2013)

lol

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40052&t=12919238


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## J.Primus (30 Apr 2013)

This is what I like about this cycling forum. "One of us" posts a video of himself cycling dangerously and is roundly told as much albeit with some constructive advice on how to avoid in the future.
Compare that to PistonHeads forum when they were discussing the assault by the white van man that was in the papers yesterday and about 80% were saying that it was justified soley because the victim was a cyclist.
Nice to see a lack of tribalism and common sense prevailing


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## AndyRM (30 Apr 2013)

You'll be receiving some colourful comments from YouTube users about this, I would imagine.

I have nothing to add beyond what has been said.

Next time, don't cycle like a plank! There's a big difference between aggressive riding and stupidity.


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## kedab (30 Apr 2013)

shouldn't have gone for the gap and should have jumped on the anchors, as has been said.


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## clarion (30 Apr 2013)

OK. After three pages, I guess he's got the message. The driver was incompetent, and the OP made a mistake, which he probably realises on reflection.


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## green1 (30 Apr 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> When I was taught to turn left and right, I learned that you *check you rear view and left side mirror, then the blind spot*, and then indicate.


How do you do that then? Stop the car and get out to check?


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

green1 said:


> How do you do that then? Stop the car and get out to check?


 
Er, look over your shoulder? It's only the blind spot when looking in the mirrors.


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## Cycling Dan (30 Apr 2013)

green1 said:


> How do you do that then? Stop the car and get out to check?


Turn your head presumably


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

Anyway, it's easy to be a perfect cyclist in hindsight, and the OP should receive the criticism in the spirit with which it has been offered - which is mostly constructive, and a wish for the OP to remain amongst the ranks of the living.

Personally I think the original filter was OK, although I would have gone for primary in lane 2. The bus was obviously going to stay in its lane, so no issue there that I can see. However the moment the left indicator came on I would have hit the anchors, and let him go in front.


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## RiflemanSmith (30 Apr 2013)

Your fault.


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## Gary E (30 Apr 2013)

RiflemanSmith said:


> Your fault.


3 pages of replies nicely summed up in 2 words


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## 4F (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> . The bus was obviously going to stay in its lane, so no issue there that I can see. However the moment the left indicator came on I would have hit the anchors, and let him go in front.


 
My concern there would have been if the bus had started to move without indicating.


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## fossyant (30 Apr 2013)

The OP has been very quiet, and the only ones blaming the driver are the two kids on here. 

Saw another kid ride up the inside of a left turning lorry this lunch. Lorry was indicating, I pulled up 2-3 cars behind, bloody student (on a quality cannondale) goes up inside, between lorry and railings. Fortunately the driver slammed on at the last minute. The student on a bike carried on. 

I thought about having a word, but no point arguing with an idiot. Riding like that he won't last long.

Driver's don't always look in their mirrors, and aren't really looking for an idiot to come up inside them when indicating FACT. The words 'but the driver should have looked' when you are six feet under don't mean alot !

Stay safe and don't ride like a nobber.


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## PocketFrog (30 Apr 2013)

Easy to say in hindsight (for all of us) but I don't think i'd have ever gone for that gap. I'd have took primary in the right hand lane behind the golf whether it was indicating or not.


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## 400bhp (30 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> Stay safe and don't ride like a nobber.


 
That needs to go in your sig.


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## fossyant (30 Apr 2013)

I am giving this thread an award - just for you OP.


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

4F said:


> My concern there would have been if the bus had started to move without indicating.


 
I think that even if that had happened, it would have kept to the same line it was already pointing on. I don't think it would have pulled out TBH.
The initial filter, to me, wasn't the issue. Not one I would have gone for, but OKish IMO.

It was the moment that the indicator came on, that I would have been hitting the brakes to let the car move across. IMO it was obvious that the car was going to move across regardless. One could argue that the driver should have checked, but with a bus to their left I don't think most people would have expected a bike to be there.

But we can all be perfect cyclists with hindsight, so let's not give the OP too much of a hard time. I'm sure every one of us has made mistakes along these lines.


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## Cycling Dan (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> I think that even if that had happened, it would have kept to the same line it was already pointing on. I don't think it would have pulled out TBH.
> The initial filter, to me, wasn't the issue. Not one I would have gone for, but OKish IMO.
> 
> It was the moment that the indicator came on, that I would have been hitting the brakes to let the car move across. IMO it was obvious that the car was going to move across regardless. One could argue that the driver should have checked, but with a bus to their left I don't think most people would have expected a bike to be there.
> ...


We must be on the same mind set.


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## Leodis (30 Apr 2013)

As above we all make daft mistakes at times, I know I have and commuting is a constant lesson each day. I used to be in denial about incidents but took a step back and soon realised I was mainly a nob cyclist with a chip on his shoulder, now I am just a nob cyclist.


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## 4F (30 Apr 2013)

We would hope it would keep the same line but that is a big gamble to take and I would add that the car's indicator is on from the start.

Sorry but I think that the OP needs a hard time on this one in the hope that he will review his careless risk taking. Many more moves like that and he won't be here to post any more videos.


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## fossyant (30 Apr 2013)

We all make mistakes, but to post a video blaming the driver, when it's the rider at fault ! 

It's like the 'I blame Wiggle thread' on Bike Radar !


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## Boris Bajic (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> I think that even if that had happened.....
> But we can all be perfect cyclists with hindsight, so let's not give the OP too much of a hard time.* I'm sure every one of us has made mistakes along these lines*.


 

Absolutely. We all make mistakes. I referred in an earlier post on this thread to a similar and painful move I made in my youth.

The issue many have here is not with the riding error or the momentary lack of judgement, but with the arrogance (almost hubris) that led him to edit and post the clip, blaming an innocent party.

To then continue to defend his 'unusual' approach and justification in the face of a mass of contrary opinion both here and on BikeRadar seems eccentric at best.

The original edited clip from the OP may even still be on Youtube, pointing the finger at (and identifying the car of) an innocent party.

That sort of video-vigilante soppiness deserves a little scorn.


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

Leodis said:


> As above we all make daft mistakes at times, I know I have and commuting is a constant lesson each day. I used to be in denial about incidents but took a step back and soon realised I was mainly a nob cyclist with a chip on his shoulder, now I am just a nob cyclist.


 
You ate the chip, I hope?


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## Leodis (30 Apr 2013)

Yes, hence why I have to cycle everyday I ate a load.


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

4F said:


> We would hope it would keep the same line but that is a big gamble to take and I would add that the car's indicator is on from the start.


 
No it wasn't. It came on as the OP came alongside its rear quarter.



> Sorry but I think that the OP needs a hard time on this one in the hope that he will review his careless risk taking. Many more moves like that and he won't be here to post any more videos.


 
Whereas I am of the opinion that positive and constructive criticism is going to have a far better effect on the OP than just blunt criticism, which often makes people even more entrenched and defensive.


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## 4F (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> No it wasn't. It came on as the OP came alongside its rear quarter..


 
You can see the indicator flashing at 5 seconds in before the OP is anywhere near the car. The OP said he saw the indicator flashing but thought it was because the car was going to pull in in front of the bus.



benb said:


> Whereas I am of the opinion that positive and constructive criticism is going to have a far better effect on the OP than just blunt criticism, which often makes people even more entrenched and defensive.


 
Our opinions on this point obviously differ.


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## GrasB (30 Apr 2013)

What's to say. You managed to park your self, at a fair speed, in a blind spot of one if not two vehicles with out ANY escape route. You then proceeded to ignored the left indication of the car & the constantly changing road position of it (though without a full speed playback it's hard to tell how obvious it was at riding speed). 

As I've said before - it's the overtaking vehicles responsibility to keep clear of the vehicle they are overtaking. You somehow nearly managed to violate this twice in one single manoeuvre.


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

4F said:


> You can see the indicator flashing at 5 seconds in before the OP is anywhere near the car. The OP said he saw the indicator flashing but thought it was because the car was going to pull in in front of the bus.


 
Watch it again. The indicator doesn't come on until 11 seconds - when the OP is already alongside the rear quarter.
At that point he should have been hitting the brakes to let the car go in front.


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## JayBear (30 Apr 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> On the most part its true. Thats why i said likely hood. Clearly you can be out of the view of the mirror the way its curved but in this instance I wouldn't think he was in the blind spot. Going off the image I would say he was in the mirrors sight at around 0:15-16 when one would look.


 
Thats a very dangerous assumption to make though.

I drive a van without rear side windows and it amazes me how often I find bikes, cycles and even cars lurk in the blindspot assuming I can see them. My van has nice big mirrors on each wing, and a rear veiw to see out the back doors. With the mirrors adjusted as best as they will go there is a blind spot that is approximatly 6 inches longer than a Ford Mondeo alongside me. At all times when approaching me from the rear up untill you are level with my window you would be able to see my mirror glass, but for the 15 or so feet back from the trailing edge of my door I can only see you (with my head facing forwards) if you happen to be in the direct path of the mirror allingnment as they are angled for me. which will be minorly different for every driver on the road and each vehicle type. 

Where the rider in the video was positioned was possibly and possibly not in the blindspot for the car (so I would be assuming that the driver couldn't see me). So the positioning was overlapping a car in a place where a blind spot 'might' exist. This must be bad positioning (sorry I'm not up to speed on the bike road craft type terminology) especially given his indicator was on.

It may be passive riding to fall in line behind the car, but it was a queue of traffic, of which the bike is part. And as we say to car drivers so often when they overtake, whats the point of going there? it would only have cost the rider 10 seconds to wait calmly. Rather than partaking in a fully fledged code brown situation. (Which would have cost me 20 minutes of sitting in a darkened room allowing the adrenaline to dissipate time)


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## GrasB (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> Watch it again. The indicator doesn't come on until 11 seconds - when the OP is already alongside the rear quarter.
> At that point he should have been hitting the brakes to let the car go in front.


There is some flickering around the 5-7s marker in the rear cluster, it's unclear what is actually happening due to the video quality.


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## 4F (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> Watch it again. The indicator doesn't come on until 11 seconds - when the OP is already alongside the rear quarter.
> At that point he should have been hitting the brakes to let the car go in front.


 
I have watched it and again it is still on at 5 seconds in.

In addition the OP stated that he saw the car indicating yet second guessed (incorrectly) its intentions:- 
*actually i figured the car was indicating that he/she was trying to get in front of the bus as the car before it, which is why i didn't try to over take the car. but then i realised it was cutting across and going into a side road and going to run me over. the video slowed down a 3 second footage. *


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## Cycling Dan (30 Apr 2013)

fossyant said:


> The OP has been very quiet, *and the only ones blaming the driver are the two kids on here*.
> 
> Saw another kid ride up the inside of a left turning lorry this lunch. Lorry was indicating, I pulled up 2-3 cars behind, bloody student (on a quality cannondale) goes up inside, between lorry and railings. Fortunately the driver slammed on at the last minute. The student on a bike carried on.
> 
> ...


Not blaming the driver- played their part-. There is no doubt in my mind this was 100% avoidable and using hindsight this would come from the cyclists decision to hang back. The Op clearly made the mistake of continuing after the indicator came on. However my point comes from (not using hindsight) that a cyclist only seconds before chose to filter. It looks like London so a lot of cyclists about,my thought process would be hmm a cyclist just filtered there I bet another would do it. So check Mirror then blind spot However I doubt any driver would look back over their shoulder(too much effort for most if not all) and the cyclist should have anticipated this being in the mirrors blind spot. Of course one could assume that if one were to filter and saw the indicator come on they would hang back. This clearly didn't happen. The indicator looks like to me it comes on at 0:11 not 0:05 as above. Although the footage is grainy and not all that clear. Its a good 5+ seconds before the wing mirror blinks again so I doubt it was on at 0:05.
On the whole- The cyclist should not have been there!! Bad place to be and the fact they didn't change there position after it became clear conflict was going to arise allowed such conflict to premature.


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## benb (30 Apr 2013)

4F said:


> I have watched it and again it is still on at 5 seconds in.
> 
> In addition the OP stated that he saw the car indicating yet second guessed (incorrectly) its intentions:-
> *actually i figured the car was indicating that he/she was trying to get in front of the bus as the car before it, which is why i didn't try to over take the car. but then i realised it was cutting across and going into a side road and going to run me over. the video slowed down a 3 second footage. *


 
Not that I can see. I think the "flash" you are seeing is sunlight reflecting in the rear light cluster. It's certainly not flashing between 7-10 seconds.
The quote from the OP makes no reference to when the indicator came on, so doesn't add anything.


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## AndyRM (30 Apr 2013)

Assumption. The mother of all f*ckups.


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## 4F (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> Not that I can see. I think the "flash" you are seeing is sunlight reflecting in the rear light cluster. It's certainly not flashing between 7-10 seconds.
> The quote from the OP makes no reference to when the indicator came on, so doesn't add anything.


 
It adds to an incorrect assumption or second guess on the OP's part. Second guess = dead guess


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## GrasB (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> Not that I can see. I think the "flash" you are seeing is sunlight reflecting in the rear light cluster. It's certainly not flashing between 7-10 seconds.
> The quote from the OP makes no reference to when the indicator came on, so doesn't add anything.


Could also be indicators (the straightening could cause cancelation), could be sunlight, could be brake lights... we just can't tell without higher quality video.


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## vernon (30 Apr 2013)

benb said:


> But we can all be perfect cyclists with hindsight, so let's not give the OP too much of a hard time. I'm sure every one of us has made mistakes along these lines.


 
Yes and some of them don't have the luxury of being able to make the same mistake again.


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## EthelF (1 May 2013)

Indicator or no indicator - frankly I think it's irrelevant in this situation - there's no way I'd have gone into that gap, whether that car was indicating or not.
OP, that vid was frightening, glad you came to no harm. But I hope you'll be more cautious in future- stay safe and enjoy a long and happy life!


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## Buddfox (1 May 2013)

I assumed the topic subject was the OP's assessment of his own cycling...


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## BentMikey (1 May 2013)

EthelF said:


> Indicator or no indicator - frankly I think it's irrelevant in this situation - there's no way I'd have gone into that gap, whether that car was indicating or not.
> OP, that vid was frightening, glad you came to no harm. But I hope you'll be more cautious in future- stay safe and enjoy a long and happy life!


 
That particular gap, no, but there are situations where I'd filter past a bus in a somewhat similar manner. In this case, most definitely no, and that's because looking ahead it's obvious that there's going to be car movement past the bus, and because the turning car was moving too. Those are obvious signs that I should take the lane and not filter there.

I usually filter only with stationary traffic, because once it starts moving your risk goes up by orders of magnitude.


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## Risex4 (1 May 2013)

What more can be said; a perfect advert in favor of some kind of road competency test for cyclists.

For me, the indication of the car is a secondary issue here - the indication could have come later or not at all depending on the diligence of the driver; it was general position which was wrong. Simply put you should have taken primary the moment you joined moving traffic in an overtake stream. My personal feeling is that you should be "in the wheel" of a car (blind spot, rear quarter, whatever you want to call it) in the magnitude of 1 or 2 seconds or less than 10 meters - anymore and you are "lost" to the car in front and surrender your escape opportunities. This essentially means filter stationary traffic, or filter slow moving traffic when you know you can clear the hazard zone almost instantly. Dithering around back there is reckless and needless; if the traffic is moving at roughly the same speed as you or you cant clear a car length properly, tuck in and join the queue. Everyone knows where you are then.

Take it on the chin OP. Cycling like this is a simple case of PP; Position (of yourself and everything around you), and Potential (what permutations can happen for whats around you). Not Probability as the problem with that is that sooner or later probability will turn against you, no matter the odds.
It isn't about what a driver has done wrong or what infractions of the highway code you can pin on his number plate, its about your skill as a cyclist to read a perpetually evolving scenario and adapt accordingly. As someone else eluded to it doesn't matter how many rules of the road they've impinged when you're in a box.

And I apologize if that is a tinsiest bit harsh or condescending, but after seeing someone almost lose their face tonight because they filtered a traffic stream which itself was moving at a steady 15-20 mph - just because it was on a down hill and its possible to do 25 down there - inside the door zone and with adjoining junctions blinded by on-road-parking, I'm seriously thinking a cycling proficiency scheme needs to be strongly considered.


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## 400bhp (1 May 2013)

Has the OP flounced?


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## Cycling Dan (1 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Has the OP flounced?


*BikeOnRoadLondon *22 hours ago
haha, all comments understood, i shall dig a hole in a ground and take my twaty cycling arse and get a life somewhere and drive a tank in the future on the roads  I think he has taken it on a bit strong. Youtube comments have not fared well.


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## Hip Priest (1 May 2013)

Risex4 said:


> What more can be said; a perfect advert in favor of some kind of road competency test for cyclists.


 
I'm in two minds. Education would undoubtedly benefit cyclists, but compulsory testing would only serve to put people off. My preference would be a high-profile safety campaign, with a few basic safety tips, such as:

NEVER UNDERTAKE A LARGE VEHICLE AT A JUNCTION


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## Buddfox (1 May 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I'm in two minds. Education would undoubtedly benefit cyclists, but compulsory testing would only serve to put people off. My preference would be a high-profile safety campaign, with a few basic safety tips, such as:
> 
> NEVER UNDERTAKE A LARGE VEHICLE AT A JUNCTION


 
Not sure the word LARGE is needed...!


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## Risex4 (1 May 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I'm in two minds. Education would undoubtedly benefit cyclists, but compulsory testing would only serve to put people off. My preference would be a high-profile safety campaign, with a few basic safety tips, such as:
> 
> NEVER UNDERTAKE A LARGE VEHICLE AT A JUNCTION


 
I used to be avidly against any pro-argument for bike "licences", but I now think there is significant scope and merit in something being investigated. 

It needn't be compulsory in the strictest sense. Obviously kids and people who peddle down to the local corner shop perhaps needn't be bothered. But two suggestions for a starter; a) incentivise it so an official licence gives perks like reductions on retail prices (subsidised by the government through monies raised from the system); people with more than a passing fancy/once-in-6-month interest in cycling would then have more reason to partake. b) Have certain urban areas designated as "licenced only". Paint kerbs yellow or something and say you need a bike licence to cycle that road. Thinking principly about areas which are danger spots and keeping inexperienced riders away from there.

I don't know, just whim's of ideas off the top of my head. But I am seeing more and more silly cycling on both my commutes and leisure rides, and as cycling grows and more and more people take it up as a form of transportation (as is the Government's stated goal), so will the frequency of these "flashpoints". If ALL of the responsibility for safer roads is shouldered by the motor-drivers, it will only breed resentment and reinforce the stereotype that cyclists have zero respect for other road users while demanding complete respect back when said instances of cycling nobbery go unchecked.


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## 400bhp (1 May 2013)

Licencing won't work for several reasons.

Better to educate and start young. 

Also get some advertising campaigns done-e.g. get Wiggo stating you're a nobber if you jump red lights/go down the side of large vehicles at junctions

just an idea...


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## gaz (1 May 2013)

Late to this thread as I was in berlin but i'll throw my 2p in anyway. What is about to be said may have already been said but here it goes anyway.

The filtering in that situation with bus stopped and cars passing already. Something which I do regularly in london, you won't make much progress if you don't do such things at places like streatham and brixton, however you have to be on the look out for certain clues.

The Clues:

at the start the car has come from a side road and is entering lane 1
car sees bus is stationary and moves to lane 2.
cars indicator comes on whilst next to the bus and the cyclist is in the blind spot, lane change will happen pretty soon after the front of the bus.
Those three things lead me to believe that the car will change into lane 1. That alone is enough information to get at least out of the blind zone of the car and give myself some more room.
Now as an experienced camera user, i know that what I see in the video may go un-noticed to the eye of the beholder and as such the indicator could easily be missed. So what to do with such a video? Well I would put this down to 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other. Both parties had a play, the driver didn't check their blind spot before turning and the cyclist shouldn't have put them selves in that situation. I would personally learn from the playback and move on or make a video about the mistake and use it to educate others on what to look out for.


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## davefb (2 May 2013)

pretty scary but, pretty much all been said..

I'd only add, it's a hell of an eye opener just how large an object can be in your blind spot driving, and unless you're an owl, you cannot easily look over your left shoulder to that angle.. and if your in traffic, the last thing you want to be doing is turning to look behind you.. even if there wasnt bits of the car and head rests in the way.

let alone bikes and cars, I've missed a hgv ( on the motorway)... my god was that a shock as i did a lifesaver..

oh and as coppercyclist said, if you know theres a junction, think someone might be turning down it...


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## monkeylc (3 May 2013)

Learn and carry on


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## Mallory (7 May 2013)

If I was the OP I would have blamed the driver immediately after the incident happened. We all at some stage misjudge a gap, especially at speed.

I once did the exact same but the car was replaced with an HGV!!! 

However after reviewing the video there is no one to blame but the OP himself.

He needs to seriously learn from his mistake or otherwise he'll be another statistic


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## joebingo (7 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Licencing won't work for several reasons.
> 
> Better to educate and start young.
> 
> ...


I've started for you.


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## 400bhp (7 May 2013)




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## ricky1980 (8 May 2013)

Having skim read all the post, there are a lot of things needing clarifications.

first for some of the more personal messages:
1) I have passed my driver's test second time with zero faults and have an advance pass plus license and also hold a license that is 15 years in the clean with no points and same goes for my insurance no claims
2) I ride a 20mile daily commute through one of the busiest city in Europe and in rush hours. I rub shoulders with no less than 5000 motorised vehicles on a daily basis and I have managed to have only 1 incident with a car where the passenger opened a door as i was going by and he was stuck in the middle lane of a traffic jam. I have been riding in London for 5 years and prior to that I ride in my Uni for four years on a daily basis so based on that statistics, I probably have a 1/1000,000 safety record at least and still going. So I consider myself to be as safe as house when it comes to riding on roads.
3) I know the highway code very well and I also know how to drive the roads very well.
4) the move is called filtering, NOT undertaking. Undertaking is a term applicable to cars not bikes as bicycles naturally rides in the left of a lane.

A) this video was taken during sunset and the road goes to east so the sun was shining at the back of the vehicles shown. This was the reason as I have stated previously, that I did not notice the car indicating until i was next to it. the sunlight was shining on the rear of the car which made seeing the tiny indicating light very difficult. with the benefit of a video it is visible, but when you are being shaken about by the road buzz while seeing if there is a gap to filter and braking and shifting gears at the same time...it is not easily noticeable.
B) for those keener eyed observer, the road in the middle has traffic island which extends beyond the junction point to the left of the road where the incident occurred.
C) upon my approach to the predicament, the car was almost stationary as there was a queue of traffic in front and the bus was loading on at least 6-7 passengers
D) because the bus was parked in its location, the junction to the left cannot be seen therefore there was no reason for anyone to think anyone can go into a road on the left
E) from the previous car's behaviour, it is easily to interpret that the car concerned was trying to undertake the traffic to the lights as opposed to turning left into the a side road
F) there was plenty space to carry out a filtering manoeuvre as was demonstrated by a cyclist before me, the space became pinched only when the car started to cut into the lane i was occupying.
G) for those who probably seen and have stated, I did slow down upon seeing the indicator light and slowed down to allow the car to go ahead. However I still couldn't see the road on the left, therefore couldn't anticipate that the car was going to cut straight in front of me
H) if you see the way the car took the corner he drove in a racing line, and also cut the corner so fine his exit trajectory ended up on the wrong side of the road.
I) If anyone understands highway code, in such situation the drive should have checked his blind spot and mirror prior to his manoeuvres, even if i wasn't there, he was over taking a bus which could have moved during the time and any driver should have made sure before he puts his car in that position it is a safe thing to do

Overall, with the hindsight, i probably shouldn't have taken the option to filter. but then again when does anyone have the benefit of hindsight.


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## BSRU (8 May 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> but then again when does anyone have the benefit of hindsight.


When you have a helmet camera


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## ricky1980 (8 May 2013)

true true


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## nilling (8 May 2013)

Rather than rely on indicators look at the cars front wheels, they point to where the car is heading


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## ManiaMuse (8 May 2013)

A barrage of comments on youtube slagging your cycling off, 6 pages on here overwhelming saying that you were in the wrong, 1 page slating you when you posted the exact same thing on bike radar, do you not get the hint?

Stop being stubborn, learn your lesson, move on with your life and stop cycling like a fool. You'll live longer and probably be happier.


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## ricky1980 (8 May 2013)

ManiaMuse said:


> A barrage of comments on youtube slagging your cycling off, 6 pages on here overwhelming saying that you were in the wrong, 1 page slating you when you posted the exact same thing on bike radar, do you not get the hint?
> 
> Stop being stubborn, learn your lesson, move on with your life and stop cycling like a fool. You'll live longer and probably be happier.


 
No i don't get the hint from random on youtube's rant. there are a couple of constructive comments which i responded to. so no I am not being stubborn as such. Your opinion is yours, i choose to respect or disrespect, regard or disregard is what i choose to do.

as a quote from youtube comments "get a life"


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## Boris Bajic (8 May 2013)

Welcome back Ricky1980. It is not always like this, but it can be and there is sometimes a good reason for the constructive criticism.

I do detect something slightly defensive in your tone, both immediately after your first post and then again in his most recent offering. Most of what was written on this forum was written constructively. It was meant to help. We've all made mistakes and some have been painful.

I think few posters would have taken your initially rather accusatory tone about the Golf driver and fewer still would have continued to defend or mitigate their position so vehemently in the face of some pretty good, constructive advice.

I am aware of Pass Plus, as I have a child who has recently learned to drive and another who is learning. It is good that you did it, but it is not some sort of driving PhD... It is a way of saving Mum and Dad money on their insurance. You rather give away your relative inexperience by making a thing of your Pass Plus.

Similarly, a low sun might lend caution to your driving or riding... I am a complete fool on the roads so I can't preach, but nor would I defend my own stupidity or naivety.

You also mention (in your latest mitigation) assuming that the behaviour of one car led you to assume similar behaviour from another. I would not advertise this sort of thinking. It might lead people to form conclusions about your analytical abilities.

Welcome back nonetheless. Now put the camera away and get your shoeshine box....

Sorry, I suddely came over all 'Goodfellas'.

Carry on.


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## fossyant (8 May 2013)

I'd stop digging, the hole is getting bigger ! 

Accept it, you cocked up. Simples. Don't do it next time.


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## AndyRM (8 May 2013)

I remember when our resident "Young Whippet" @Matthew_T posted similar 'bad driving' clips and other assorted nonsense; he was rightly shot down, as you have been.

Fortunately, he has learned from the advice given and I genuinely hope you do the same.


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## GrasB (8 May 2013)

fossyant said:


> I'd stop digging, the hole is getting bigger !
> 
> Accept it, you cocked up. Simples. Don't do it next time.


I can't remember who said this to me but:
"_Excellent drivers don't make the same mistake._
_Good drivers make the same mistake two or three times._
_Bad drivers *never* make mistakes!_"


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## Matthew_T (8 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> Fortunately, he has learned from the advice given and I genuinely hope you do the same.


Yes I have learnt my lesson: Dont post videos on this forum!


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## redcard (8 May 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> No i don't get the hint from random on youtube's rant. there are a couple of constructive comments which i responded to. so no I am not being stubborn as such. Your opinion is yours, i choose to respect or disrespect, regard or disregard is what i choose to do.
> 
> as a quote from youtube comments "get a life"



You poor sod. I think the mood has turned from mocking you to one of sympathy. At least you're content in your delusion.


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## ManiaMuse (8 May 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> No i don't get the hint from random on youtube's rant. there are a couple of constructive comments which i responded to. so no I am not being stubborn as such. Your opinion is yours, i choose to respect or disrespect, regard or disregard is what i choose to do.
> 
> as a quote from youtube comments "get a life"


Yes I will "get a life" which doesn't involve posting helmet cam footage of spurious incidents which could have been easily avoided with a modicum of forethought and patience and then disparaging a driver who, in the balance of evidence, was not primarily at fault.


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## BentMikey (8 May 2013)

Speaking generally, you guys could be considerably less nasty and more constructive towards Ricky. It's possible to be both right, and an peanut at the same time.


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## 400bhp (8 May 2013)

Is also most probable to be wrong and an peanut too.


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## AndyRM (9 May 2013)

400bhp said:


> Is also most probable to be wrong and an peanut too.


 
Chuck in 'not learning from your mistakes and being a unrepentant chode' and you're bang on.

The issue here, for me, is that the video which was uploaded by the OP blames a car driver for doing nothing wrong. That just re-inforces the 'them against us' attitude, which helps no one.

I appreciate that this is a polarising issue. This sort of p!sh helps nobody.


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## slowmotion (9 May 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> A) this video was taken during sunset and the road goes to east so the sun was shining at the back of the vehicles shown. This was the reason as I have stated previously, that I did not notice the car indicating until i was next to it. the sunlight was shining on the rear of the car which made seeing the tiny indicating light very difficult. with the benefit of a video it is visible, but when you are being shaken about by the road buzz while seeing if there is a gap to filter and braking and shifting gears at the same time...it is not easily noticeable.


 
Is this a rare case of a cyclist pulling the SMIDSY Defence out of the hat?


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## redcard (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> Speaking generally, you guys could be considerably less nasty and more constructive towards Ricky. It's possible to be both right, and an peanut at the same time.



Ricky could have been more constructive towards the car driver, but he chose to act like the prick cyclist we all recognise.


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## BentMikey (9 May 2013)

...these responses are why CycleChat isn't always the friendly and welcoming community it purports to be. This makes me sad.


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## 400bhp (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> ...these responses are why CycleChat isn't always the friendly and welcoming community it purports to be. This makes me sad.


 
Does that include your penultimate post?


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## Rob3rt (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> ...these responses are why CycleChat isn't always the friendly and welcoming community it purports to be. *This makes me sad*.


 
Bent riders are as sensitive as hybrid riders these days?


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## AndyRM (9 May 2013)

Are you best mates with him Mikey? Are you watching him greeting away into his keyboard after being given advice and a gentle ribbing?

If that's the case I apologise for being "an peanut".

Otherwise, I suggest he learns from his error and renames his video.


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## Leodis (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> ...these responses are why CycleChat isn't always the friendly and welcoming community it purports to be. This makes me sad.


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## 4F (9 May 2013)

ricky1980 said:


> Overall, with the hindsight, I probably shouldn't have taken the option to filter.


 
Ricky, ignoring the rest of your post which imho is a list of poor excuses for justification the above comment hits the nail on the head.

Keep cycling, stay safe.


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## Boris Bajic (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> ...these responses are why CycleChat isn't always the friendly and welcoming community it purports to be. This makes me sad.


 
My posts on this thread may in part have brought on this response from you and the earlier one about being right and being unpleasant not being inclusive sets.

I happily admit upthread that I've done just as the OP did and still bear the scar. We all do daft things on the road.

It's not the doing of the deed that brings out the slightly acid or wry tone in some posters, it's the apparent desire to blame and keep blaming and not to take on the advice that was sought in the first place.

Even the latest post by the OP gives an extraordinary and complex (and slightly artificial) list of excuses and mitigations and justifications before accepting that with hindsight the filter may not have been the optimum choice. Like those Youtube videos of rants on the tram, it repels and attracts in equal measure.

I've attracted extraordinarily scathing posts on these pages. It's the Internet, where these things do happen. If one looks carefully, this is a friendly and helpful site. I've had lots of good advice here and lots of gratitude for advice I've been able to give.

I've even (well into my forties) adapted my road position as a result of points made on these pages.

When I make plonkerish points on these pages, I am torn to shreds. The repeated defences made by the OP were in that parish and I thought much of the advice was tempered and reasonable.


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## Deleted member 20519 (9 May 2013)

Bit late to this thread but...


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## boydj (9 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> Speaking generally, you guys could be considerably less nasty and more constructive towards Ricky. It's possible to be both right, and an peanut at the same time.


It's called 'tough love' Mikey, but you're right, in that there is no need to be nasty. As Boris said, most of the criticism has tried to be constructive.


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## BentMikey (10 May 2013)

To be fair, I find it extremely difficult to give constructive criticism in a nice way, so I do have sympathy for the ease with which the tough love is generated. We should still try hard to do it nicely and constructively, though. I dislike the overly unkind remarks enough that they are the reason I'm on here so rarely nowadays.


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## Gary E (10 May 2013)

I think this thread has run it's course and to be honest I'm less bothered about the actual incident and more upset about the general damage this sort of thing does to all cyclists, good and bad.
The vast majority of cyclists I see out and about are considerate and careful riders. The odd black sheep just gets us all tarred with the same brush and we all become "W@@@er cyclists" in a lot of driver's eyes leading to punishment passes and abuse that we don't, for the majority, deserve.


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## dodgy (10 May 2013)

*Excellent video

*=For showing to complete novices so they may learn from your mistakes.

Did you get a frisson of excitement immediately after that incident, thinking you've finally got a great helmet cam video to put on Youtube?

What is it with helmet cammers and their youtube channels?


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## AndyRM (10 May 2013)

BentMikey said:


> To be fair, I find it extremely difficult to give constructive criticism in a nice way, so I do have sympathy for the ease with which the tough love is generated. We should still try hard to do it nicely and constructively, though. I dislike the overly unkind remarks enough that they are the reason I'm on here so rarely nowadays.


 
So you don't come on much because people make "unkind remarks" and then call folk "peanuts". Makes sense...


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## benb (10 May 2013)

dodgy said:


> *Excellent video
> 
> *=For showing to complete novices so they may learn from your mistakes.
> 
> ...


 
Are you suggesting that people who run cameras deliberately put themselves in a dangerous position just to get a "good" video?
That's ridiculous.


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## Rob3rt (10 May 2013)

benb said:


> Are you suggesting that people who run cameras deliberately put themselves in a dangerous position just to get a "good" video?
> That's ridiculous.


 
Is this meant to be sarcastic?


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## benb (10 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Is this meant to be sarcastic?


No


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## Rob3rt (10 May 2013)

Well then......... I will say this, I would allege that at least some (probably not that small of a minority) of helmet cam nobbers do indeed put themselves in silly predicaments and/or go looking for their next youtool video, dreaming of the day they go viral!

If only you had said yes..............


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## benb (10 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Well then......... I will say this, I would allege that at least some (probably not that small of a minority) of helmet cam nobbers do indeed put themselves in silly predicaments and/or go looking for their next youtool video, dreaming of the day they go viral!
> 
> If only you had said yes..............


 
I would suggest that's utter drivel. Got any actual evidence for that ludicrous assertion?


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## Rob3rt (10 May 2013)

Yes, see here: http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/commuting.6/


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## BSRU (10 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Yes, see here: http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/commuting.6/


That's a no then , unless you would like to actually point out a video where a cyclist has deliberately put themselves in danger just to get a few extra hits on YouTube.


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## Boris Bajic (10 May 2013)

Cripes! I think this thread is heading towards a yawning canyon of unintended and pointless animosity.

There's no need to go there. It's got steep sides and it's a long fall to the bottom.

There are several excellent posters of headcam footage, some of whose work I've shown to my teenage kids over the months.

There are one or two who whilst not actually putting themselves in danger, appear to delight in confrontation and drama.

The latter group do not in any way reflect poorly on (or detract from) the efforts of the former. Some headcammers seem to flit comfortably between groups, never settling in either.

We cannot prove whether anyone deliberately puts themself in danger. I doubt that they do. I think the poster of the original slightly scoffing comment might have been alluding to those cammers who in the eyes of some viewers and road users seem keen to create maximum friction and drama where little existed.

A row has been extruded here from a billet that was completely free of anything more contentious than a slightly arch and waspish comment about the frisson some cammers might feel at capturing a 'moment'.

Many neutral observers will have enjoyed a wry smile at the comment, waspish as it may have been. Rob3rt's original comment made no mention of deliberately putting oneself in danger... The extrusion happened after the product left his keyboard.

White flags and handshakes all round, I think. I've checked all the official figures and this disagreement doesn't meet the crteria for a full-on difference of opinion.


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## glenn forger (10 May 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Well then......... I will say this, I would allege that at least some (probably not that small of a minority) of helmet cam nobbers do indeed put themselves in silly predicaments and/or go looking for their next youtool video, dreaming of the day they go viral!
> 
> If only you had said yes..............


 
Complete rubbish, that's why you can't find any actual examples.


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## dodgy (10 May 2013)

benb said:


> Are you suggesting that people who run cameras deliberately put themselves in a dangerous position just to get a "good" video?
> That's ridiculous.


No.


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## glenn forger (10 May 2013)

Your list of examples has convinced me.

Oh.


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## benb (10 May 2013)

dodgy said:


> No.


 
So what did you mean exactly when you said



> Did you get a frisson of excitement immediately after that incident, thinking you've finally got a great helmet cam video to put on Youtube?
> What is it with helmet cammers and their youtube channels?


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## dodgy (10 May 2013)

benb said:


> So what did you mean exactly when you said


 
I'll tell you what, since you're busting for an argument for some reason. Take a good long read of my post - again, then figure out what I meant.

I won't be wasting any more words, figure it out for yourself.


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## benb (10 May 2013)

dodgy said:


> I'll tell you what, since you're busting for an argument for some reason. Take a good long read of my post - again, then figure out what I meant.
> 
> I won't be wasting any more words, figure it out for yourself.


 
I'm not, I just don't understand what you meant. If you don't want to clarify, fine, but I don't understand why you're so grumpy about it.


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## ricky1980 (11 May 2013)

the video below shows how a car should take a left turn while cutting a lane of traffic. while the other two show how not to do it. and the one that is being hotly talked about here is shown in real time



enough arsing around on adobe time to get on with other stuff. have fun ppl


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## AndyRM (11 May 2013)

So... Why didn't you just post the video in real time in the first place?!

If you had, you wouldn't be "a plank" or "an unrepentant chode", and I wouldn't be "an peanut".

I do think that you took a bit of a risk in the final clip, I wouldn't want to be between a bus and a moving car, but the driving wasn't great.


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## 400bhp (11 May 2013)

FFS


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## ricky1980 (11 May 2013)

AndyRM said:


> So... Why didn't you just post the video in real time in the first place?!
> 
> If you had, you wouldn't be "a plank" or "an unrepentant chode", and I wouldn't be "an peanut".
> 
> I do think that you took a bit of a risk in the final clip, I wouldn't want to be between a bus and a moving car, but the driving wasn't great.


 
i agree with everyone saying that i took a bit of a risk. I didn't post real time cos I am new to video editing and wanted to show the amount of space this guy afforded me. the real time does show how quickly it all happened.


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## redcard (11 May 2013)

glenn forger said:


> Complete rubbish, that's why you can't find any actual examples.



Complete rubbish? You really think so?

Either you don't get out very much, or you're completely blinkered.


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## redcard (11 May 2013)

benb said:


> I'm not, I just don't understand what you meant. If you don't want to clarify, fine, but I don't understand why you're so grumpy about it.



Maybe he's grumpy because you deliberately misinterpreted what he said so you could partake in some sensationalist point-scoring?


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## Kookas (11 May 2013)

redcard said:


> Complete rubbish? You really think so?
> 
> Either you don't get out very much, or you're completely blinkered.


 
That's not really arguing your point...


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## Andy_R (11 May 2013)

Kookas said:


> That's not really arguing your point...


Don't bother arguing with redcard, cos he's always right...even when he isn't


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## redcard (11 May 2013)

Kookas said:


> That's not really arguing your point...



Is it not?


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## gaz (11 May 2013)

"you're wrong but i'm not going to give anything to back up my statement, you are just wrong"


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## redcard (12 May 2013)

gaz said:


> "you're wrong but i'm not going to give anything to back up my statement, you are just wrong"



The point I was responding to was equally poor in quality. You gave than one a pass, for some reason.


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## glenn forger (12 May 2013)

redcard said:


> Complete rubbish? You really think so?
> 
> Either you don't get out very much, or you're completely blinkered.


 
I asked if you can justify your claim. I'm inviting you to back up what you say.


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## gaz (12 May 2013)

redcard said:


> The point I was responding to was equally poor in quality. You gave than one a pass, for some reason.


Who said my post was directed at you. It just so happened to come after your comment.


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## Kookas (12 May 2013)

redcard said:


> The point I was responding to was equally poor in quality. You gave than one a pass, for some reason.


 
You're the one trying to make a point, so you're the one who has to argue it. No-one else has to say a thing until you actually make an argument.


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## benb (12 May 2013)

redcard said:


> Maybe he's grumpy because you deliberately misinterpreted what he said so you could partake in some sensationalist point-scoring?


 
No, I didn't


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## Jezston (12 May 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> Welcome back Ricky1980. It is not always like this, but it can be and there is sometimes a good reason for the constructive criticism.


 
A lot of really not constructive at all criticism on this thread, Boris - it quickly turned into a spitefest with the same few regular faces all amusing themselves and each other by slagging off the OP as happens so often on this forum, and it puts a lot of people off posting here.

I wouldn't call any of these comments 'constructive'.



> You spent all that time arsing about with editing the vid. Spend the time working out what you should be doing on the road.





> Another vid for Gaz's stupid cyclists episodes. You got yourself into that, there wasn't space.





> I'd sell the camera and spend a part of the proceeds on a copy of the Highway Code.





> Keep cycling like that and you will be the proud owner of your very own Darwin Award





> The OP has been very quiet, and the only ones blaming the driver are the two kids on here.
> 
> Saw another kid ride up the inside of a left turning lorry this lunch. Lorry was indicating, I pulled up 2-3 cars behind, bloody student (on a quality cannondale) goes up inside, between lorry and railings. Fortunately the driver slammed on at the last minute. The student on a bike carried on.
> 
> ...


 


> Next time, don't cycle like a plank! There's a big difference between aggressive riding and stupidity.





> I am giving this thread an award - just for you OP.
> 
> View attachment 22585


 


> I assumed the topic subject was the OP's assessment of his own cycling...


 

I wish this forum would be more of the 'fun and friendly' place it's supposed to be, and I wish the moderators would set better examples.


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## snorri (13 May 2013)

I think certain thread topics should have an auto locking facility that comes in after a pre set number of days/pages elapse.


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## 400bhp (13 May 2013)

Passive agressive


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## Boris Bajic (13 May 2013)

Jezston said:


> A lot of really not constructive at all criticism on this thread, Boris - it quickly turned into a spitefest with the same few regular faces all amusing themselves and each other by slagging off the OP as happens so often on this forum, and it puts a lot of people off posting here.
> 
> I wouldn't call any of these comments 'constructive'.
> 
> I wish this forum would be more of the 'fun and friendly' place it's supposed to be, and I wish the moderators would set better examples.


 
Well... I thought there was a lot of constructve criticism in the thread.

Amusingly (or not) the comment you quoted about selling the camera and using the money to buy a copy of the HC was mine. I thought (perhaps wrongly) that it was appropriate and that it was nestled in with other constructive comments and an admission that I'd made exactly the same mistake in my youth and still carry the scar.

These pages can carry quite beastly and visceral responses from some members, but the OP here had ridden unwisely, blamed his near-misfortune on another and posted it for all the World to see, including the identifying mark of the other party's vehicle. As a cyclist, this sort of self-appointed Internet vigilantism makes me feel slightly nauseous.

The lack of constructive attitude may not lie only with the miscreants you identify.


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