# Fitness, Freshness and Form - on Strava



## Norry1 (27 Apr 2015)

Does anyone use the Fitness, Freshness and Form function on Strava?

What does it tell you if anything?

Martin


----------



## Hacienda71 (27 Apr 2015)

Not a lot unless you are using a hrm. I stopped using my hrm and according to Strava I am now less fit despite cycling faster and longer than when I was using my hrm.


----------



## Norry1 (27 Apr 2015)

I use my HRM all the time (unless on a Boris Bike  )


----------



## Big Dave laaa (28 Apr 2015)

I'm not really sure what it tells me but if I've had a good quick ride and I feel on form, the charts seems to reflect it and vice versa. I have seen my fitness increase as my miles and speed increase but I'm not sure it's a usable tool and more of a gimmick for statos.


----------



## jefmcg (28 Apr 2015)

Is this something in the paid version? If not, where do you access it?


----------



## Sittingduck (28 Apr 2015)

I looked at it a cpl of times but came to the conclusion that it's worthless nonsense.


----------



## Rob3rt (28 Apr 2015)

The vast majority of people have no clue how to interpret or utilise a performance management chart. As such any conclusions drawn by the average Joe are pretty much worthless.

Like most training metrics really...


----------



## mcshroom (28 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Is this something in the paid version? If not, where do you access it?



I think it's paid version only


----------



## Norry1 (28 Apr 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> The vast majority of people have no clue how to interpret or utilise a performance management chart. As such any conclusions drawn by the average Joe are pretty much worthless.
> 
> Like most training metrics really...



That's quite a bleak position.


----------



## fossyant (28 Apr 2015)

Norry1 said:


> That's quite a bleak position.



It's correct though.

Unless you have a coach/support, Power meters and stuff, for the average ride it's no use. Just go and ride.

When you want to compete, and to a good level, then a coach will help and you can use some real data, not the silly strava stuff.

PS @Rob3rt is a pretty handy TT rider. Fast as Fark !!!!


----------



## Norry1 (28 Apr 2015)

fossyant said:


> It's correct though.
> 
> PS @Rob3rt is a pretty handy TT rider. Fast as Fark !!!!



I don't doubt it. Plus I agree that getting a coach, or understanding the theory in some detail is the proper way to go. However, I'm surprised that there is NO value in any other system or data, even if rather limited.


----------



## Sea of vapours (28 Apr 2015)

There is psychological value, at least to me, in the fitness/freshness function, whether or not there is any serious means of using it for actual feedback into 'training'. For example, it encourages me that the fitness number trends upwards, and the short term, downward slope encourages me to arrest the decline and get out on the bike. It's also interesting to see how the data's suggestion of form relates to how I feel when I go out. I don't remotely imagine that I can use it, or any other data, as serious feedback to act upon; it's just another thing showing medium to long term trends which helps provide a sense of 'getting somewhere'. 

In short, it's entertaining and provides positive feedback, whether or not it can be, or is, used as a serious training tool.


----------



## Norry1 (29 Apr 2015)

[QUOTE="Sea of vapours, post: 3668128, member: 40301"

In short, it's entertaining and provides positive feedback, whether or not it can be, or is, used as a serious training tool.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I've only just started looking at it and I agree with this. I wouldn't expect to use it as a serious training tool, but I wondered if it had some, if limited" practical value.


----------



## Crackle (29 Apr 2015)

I don't see how the Strava one can be accurate. I downloaded some add-ons for Sportracks with this stuff on, not because I needed it but because I like to know how these things work and play with them. It rapidly became obvious as I set it up and read about it, that it requires a fair amount of dedication to assign scores to your rides which feed into the apps and give accurate information. Without doing that, it tells you what you already know: I'm tired, I feel fit, I'm struggling, I've done too little, I've done too much etc... What you want is to tune it to tell you precisely what you need to do to peak for something. It's a tool for the dedicated amateur or professional, needless to say, I soon ditched it. I can't imagine the Strava one is good enough for anything more than broad generalisations, fun rather than useful.


----------



## DWiggy (29 Apr 2015)

I have no idea what the figures mean or if useful, I use a HR monitor and my current figs are: 38 Fitness ¦ 39 Fatigue ¦ -2 Form ? any ideas?


----------



## Rob3rt (29 Apr 2015)

It means very little, read off the chart like that, other than that your short term training load (according to the averaging scheme utilized) is marginally greater than your long term training load, and this assumes that the data going in was good data. If it wasn't, well...


----------



## Rob3rt (29 Apr 2015)

Norry1 said:


> I don't doubt it. Plus I agree that getting a coach, or understanding the theory in some detail is the proper way to go. However, I'm surprised that there is NO value in any other system or data, even if rather limited.



The value of training metrics is found not simply from the metrics but in knowing what they mean, their relationships to other metrics, understanding their limitations and knowing how to interpret them and carry out the appropriate actions in response to them.


----------



## gam001 (29 Apr 2015)

Norry1 said:


> Does anyone use the Fitness, Freshness and Form function on Strava?
> 
> What does it tell you if anything?
> 
> Martin


Hi Martin,

There is an explanation of the graph (which TrainingPeaks call the "Performance Management Chart") here...

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-the-performance-management-chart

To help translate the terminology from TrainingPeaks to Strava...

ATL = Freshness (or lack thereof)
CTL = Fitness
TSB = Form

You can get really technical with this stuff (read "how to train and race with a power meter" by Coggan & Hunter if you want to know the technicalities), but in a nutshell people can use it as a tool so they have a quantifiable way of estimating what numbers give them the best improvements, or when to start a recovery or tapering period. If you do a bit of trial and error with this, you can relate certain numbers in the chart to when you had good events (or bad events) and try to replicate (or avoid) those numbers again in the future.

For example, after some trial and error in the past, I noticed for me that my cycling tends to best when...
- Fitness score in the 70-100 region (above 100 is too much for me with a full-time job and middle-aged, as I am constantly feeling tired).
- Fitness score increasing at around 5-10 per month (again, I start to get too tired above an increase of 10 per month).
- Every 4 weeks or so, I like to recover with a few days off and some really easy short rides by getting my Form back up to zero, before stepping things back up to the next level in the following few weeks to increase my Fitness again.
- Before an event (e.g. Sportive), I tend to perform best when my Form is still slightly negative, i.e. when I am not totally recovered, at between -5 and -15 for me.

Obviously, this is all common sense, i.e. cycling more/harder leads to more fitness, you should take it easy every few weeks in order for your body to recover and grow stronger, and taking it easier just before an event will mean you will not be too tired to perform well. However, the chart just gives you a quantifiable way of measuring all of this (albeit, it is only a tool and not the be all and end all, and you still need to listen to what your body is telling you, etc), plus it can be a good visual reward and motivator to see your Fitness line on the up over time.

(There may be a couple of slight inaccuracies in the above in the name of simplicity for explanation )

Hope that's of some use 

All the best, Gaz 

(P.S. I use the Strava tool with my Power Meter readings (rather than HR readings) and the scores on Strava are virtually identical to those on TrainingPeaks (which a lot of the pro teams use), and therefore the Strava tool seems "accurate" in that sense. (I can't comment on the HR side of things, as I don't use a HR monitor these days.))


----------



## Norry1 (30 Apr 2015)

Gaz, brilliant post - thanks. 

Martin


----------

