# Drivers Beware! The Cycling Vigilante is after you.



## Cycleops (6 Oct 2014)

A cyclist in Harlow is catching drivers on cam mainly talking on the phone. He then sends the footage to a private company called Police Witness who then pass it on to the Police who decide whether to prosecute. Have you seen him @compo?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...anding-evidence-police-And-popular-ain-t.html


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

Bullied at school, too much time on his hands, or both?


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## Cycling Dan (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Bullied at school, too much time on his hands, or both?


Maybe someone who is just sick of it.
A shared opinion of most

Not the full read the report as it likely the hysterical norm one expects from the daily mail


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

Shall we send the picture of his bike with no rear reflectors or pedal reflectors to police witness?

I'm going for bullied at school, hence the need to try and feel like the righteous big man by confronting people.

If he's so indignant, so pro safety, so law oriented why doesn't he submit his footage discretely?


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## Cycling Dan (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Shall we send the picture of his bike with no rear reflectors or pedal reflectors to police witness?
> 
> I'm going for bullied at school, hence the need to try and feel like the righteous big man by confronting people.
> 
> If he's so indignant, so pro safety, so law oriented why doesn't he submit his footage discretely?


Doesn't this make your job easier, significantly less work. Push some paper and get your area stats up?

Why is there a requirement to be discret. Bad article but I'm sure many will read it and they may just think maybe it's not just the police I have to be on the look for.


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## Learnincurve (6 Oct 2014)

I'm thinking @Drago doth protest too much,


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## benb (6 Oct 2014)

Yes, how dare people report crimes.


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

Stats? The home office has forbidden the use of numeric performance indicators for individual bobbies as it precludes then use of discretion.

And how does sparking off public order incidents make a bobbies life any easier? How does being off work for a month because he wound up some Muppet help his family? Being righteous doesn't stop the likes of Kenneth Noye sticking a knife in you.

I'm not against the filming one iota. No issue with that at all. Its the need to get into barneys with people which is dangerous at best, small man syndrome at worst.


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## MisterStan (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Bullied at school, too much time on his hands, or both?


Amazing attitude from a serving Police Officer!


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## albion (6 Oct 2014)

I would say the person is doing a very useful service, even if it only saves the one life.

Sadly, it is too late for that poor Teeside guy
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/billingham-teeside-death.143940/


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

You think a police officer being against people starting confrontations in public is a bad thing?

I'm considerably bigger than this gent and I don't do it. Why risk injury - or death - and cause police time to be spent investigating assaults that are utterly avoidable?


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## Cycleops (6 Oct 2014)

Interestingly on the comments page people are mostly negative. They turn the thing around and rant about how badly behaved cyclists are and shouldn't he be out filming them!


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## Markymark (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> You think a police officer being against people starting confrontations in public is a bad thing?
> 
> I'm considerably bigger than this gent and I don't do it. Why risk injury - or death - and cause police time to be spent investigating assaults that are utterly avoidable?


Have you not had to deal with the aftermath of a collision where the driver was likely to be on the phone?


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## Cycling Dan (6 Oct 2014)

Cycleops said:


> Interestingly on the comments page people are mostly negative. They turn the thing around and rant about how badly behaved cyclists are and shouldn't he be out filming them!


you will find that most will be drivers who use there phone and it's easy to turn at point to attack a minority then the accept the bigger beast is just as bad. I find that for drivers acknowledging wrong on a grand scale is unacceptable. Motorists do no wrong seems to be the accepted view
AA did a survey were a majority said they drive or text on there phone more than once a month. This to me shows there to be a chronic problem which is not being tackled as it's never changed


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## Cycleops (6 Oct 2014)

Cycling Dan said:


> you will find that most will be drivers who use there phone and it's easy to turn at point to attack a minority then the accept the bigger beast is just as bad. I find that for drivers acknowledging wrong on a grand scale is unacceptable. Motorists do no wrong seems to be the accepted view
> AA did a survey were a majority said they drive or text on there phone more than once a month. This to me shows there to be a chronic problem which is not being tackled as it's never changed


Which is all the more incomprehensible when most phones now have voice controlled dialing and Bluetooth remote headsets and the like are so cheap.


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Have you not had to deal with the aftermath of a collision where the driver was likely to be on the phone?



Marky, read my posts again. As a cyclist, occasional car driver and mobile phone hater I have no issue with the filming. This I have already stated quite clearly.

It's the need to start confrontations with strangers In the street that i object to. It pointless, time wasting and dangerous.


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## Markymark (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Marky, read my posts again. As a cyclist, occasional car driver and mobile phone hater I have no issue with the filming. This I have already stated quite clearly.
> 
> It's the need to start confrontations with strangers In the street that i object to. It pointless, time wasting and dangerous.


Ok, which happens more frequently - collisions from mobile talking or road-rage? Which has the greater consequences in your experience?


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## compo (6 Oct 2014)

Cycleops said:


> A cyclist in Harlow is catching drivers on cam mainly talking on the phone. He then sends the footage to a private company called Police Witness who then pass it on to the Police who decide whether to prosecute. Have you seen him @compo?
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...anding-evidence-police-And-popular-ain-t.html



I went out for a ride out with him and another friend one day. It was the first time I had met him. I very quickly got tired of his antics. Apart from his cameras he has an airzound which he blasts then yells out the reg number of the errant car. I was convinced he deliberately put himself into situations designed to cause road problems for drivers. I cannot argue with some of what he does when filming deliberate acts of dangerous driving but he seems to be a bit of an obsessive. I was glad when we parted company at the end of the ride and I have not been out with him since.


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## jayonabike (6 Oct 2014)

Another sad tw@t who will only give cyclists a bad name


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

Road rage, by quite a margin. I've been involved with one death from that, several serious assault injuries, many more minor fisticuffs induced cuts and bruises. That's my personal experience.


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## Cycling Dan (6 Oct 2014)

jayonabike said:


> Another sad tw@t who will only give cyclists a bad name


You cant give something which is already there and has a fundamental foundation of cyclists being law breakers and dangerous in all efforts to hold you up. I doubt it will be broken soon either


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## Markymark (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Road rage, by quite a margin. I've been involved with one death from that, several serious assault injuries, many more minor fisticuffs induced cuts and bruises. That's my personal experience.


Blimey, had no idea.


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## Hip Priest (6 Oct 2014)

He's on here isn't he? Username is Sueperb or something. Might be wrong.

I agree with Drago. I haven't got the stats, but if you're confronting motorists on a daily basis, you chance of being killed or seriously injured by a road rager is significantly higher than your chance of being in a collision with a car.

He's already been put on hid backside by some meathead in a van. It isn't worth it.


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## coffeejo (6 Oct 2014)

So he's not just filming and passing on the footage, but making a scene and confronting people?

Oh.

That's gonna end up costing the NHS a whole heap of money.


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Oct 2014)

Oh, is it the guy who slapped a van and then got slapped by its driver?

GC


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## Saluki (6 Oct 2014)

A shame that the paper listed the names of his children. They are probably going to be bullied about this, at their schools.


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## Cycleops (6 Oct 2014)

Hip Priest said:


> He's on here isn't he? Username is Sueperb or something. Might be wrong.


Be interesting to hear from the man himself. Is it @sue perb ? Hasn't been on for a year.


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## the snail (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> I'm going for bullied at school, hence the need to try and feel like the righteous big man by confronting people.


Is that why people join the police?


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## steveindenmark (6 Oct 2014)

If anyone sees him, do a bit of bike rage on him and post it on Youtube. It might gain us some points with the motorists.


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## Drago (6 Oct 2014)

the snail said:


> Is that why people join the police?



Good heavens, no. We're all failed Dictators, and its the nearest we can get to an El Generalissimo's uniform without raiding Grandpas medal drawer and getting a loan from the World Bank for the free gold braid.


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## glenn forger (6 Oct 2014)

The comments are supportive of the cyclist. It's peoples' sons, daughters, fathers and mothers who are getting killed by these idiots. Twelve dead people last year, killed by idiots nattering trivial rubbish on their phone or fiddling with facebook or generally dicking around at the wheel.


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## G3CWI (6 Oct 2014)

compo said:


> I was glad when we parted company at the end of the ride and I have not been out with him since.



You lasted to the end? Well done. On the very rare occasions that I have cycled with complete **ssers I have been known to give them a bit of a lead before sprinting off sharply in the other direction.


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## downfader (6 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> Shall we send the picture of his bike with no rear reflectors or pedal reflectors to police witness?
> 
> I'm going for bullied at school, hence the need to try and feel like the righteous big man by confronting people.
> 
> If he's so indignant, so pro safety, so law oriented why doesn't he submit his footage discretely?



A) reflector is irrelevant during the day. Is he actually riding that bike, maybe the light he uses incorporate a reflector (as many do)

B) Having been turned away from the copshop with video evidence I can see why he goes through a third party. I'm not aware if the third party here can make any difference but a few newspaper articles might, shame its the Mail though. They go bat-sh*t over things like this.


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## ComedyPilot (6 Oct 2014)

The latest 'IS' story in the DM got 300 comments. This bloke had 1800 from infuriated, irresponsible, hard done to motorists who would more than likely whine like a biyatch if they come of worse in an incident involving careless/dangerous drivers....but strangely don't want said drivers confronted, outed to police, stopped from breaking law etc by some 'bloody cyclist'


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## boydj (6 Oct 2014)

The Mail article was pretty fair and generally supportive. If the rider restricted himself to filming the miscreants and submitting the footage,that would be a good example for more to follow, particularly since the footage goes through a third party. However confronting the drivers is a waste of time and effort and unlikely to change the behaviour that's been filmed.


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## ClichéGuevara (6 Oct 2014)

"Smile"


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## mr_cellophane (6 Oct 2014)

He is a bus driver out of Leyton garage. He also has cameras in his car.


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## Drago (7 Oct 2014)

He's a bus driving road safety champion?

Isn't that like being a meat eating vegetarian?


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## User269 (7 Oct 2014)

Cycleops said:


> A cyclist in Harlow is catching drivers on cam mainly talking on the phone. He then sends the footage to a private company called Police Witness who then pass it on to the Police who decide whether to prosecute. Have you seen him @compo?
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...anding-evidence-police-And-popular-ain-t.html


Serving our community by doing one of the jobs we pay the police to do. Good for hime.


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## Drago (7 Oct 2014)

We pay the police to start fisticuffs with car drivers?


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## GrasB (7 Oct 2014)

I'm in two minds here. Yes, being a mobile camera videoing motorists being selfish ****s is one thing but getting into needless confrontations is another.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Oct 2014)

Are the confrontations needless or just inevitable? Should we always shy away from doing the right thing because it may result in confrontation?

His local plod in Harlow could equip a PCSO with a camera and do this fella's "job" for him. Nice little earner and good for road safety. But they don't. Why not? Hereabouts I'm told because it isn't a community concern...


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## Drago (7 Oct 2014)

They're both needless and inevitable. Confront people (needlessly) often enough and you'll get into grief. 

One can only speculate, but the article intimates this gent has had frequent confrontations and more than one physical altercation, which raises questions in my mind as to his verbal approach.

You could be right about your last paragraph Cuno. In times of austerity community policing resources are not only dwindling, but are supposed to be driven by the public. There'll be consultation of some form (via the website is a favourite, as is canvassing victims of crime) and the top 3 of these are supposed to be selected quarterly. Parking and speeding are regular top 3 concerns here in Westshire, although parking was decriminalised here 12 years ago and we no longer retain the powers to enforce , but mobile phone use has never been nominated by the public as a priority here.


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## compo (7 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Are the confrontations needless or just inevitable? Should we always shy away from doing the right thing because it may result in confrontation?
> 
> His local plod in Harlow could equip a PCSO with a camera and do this fella's "job" for him. Nice little earner and good for road safety. But they don't. Why not? Hereabouts I'm told because it isn't a community concern...



This is Harlow. The PCSO would have his bike nicked before issuing his first ticket.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2014)

ClichéGuevara said:


> "Smile"




Ooooh nasty sofa !!!


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> They're both needless and inevitable. Confront people (needlessly) often enough and you'll get into grief.



I'd be fascinated to know what the KSI stats are for people involved rtc's where a link to mobile use has been suspected by the investigating officers versus the KSI stats for road rage incidents. 

Allowing anti-social behaviour, and anti-social driving is precisely that, to go unchecked is a recipe for disaster for our communities. And given that "leave it to the police" is about as effective a remedy as a chocolate fireguard is a health and safety measure is it any wonder folk will turn vigilante? It is entirely possible to confront someone assertively and not have that escalate into aggression and violence despite what the naysayers might think.

But then again, the police hereabouts, recognising the problem of anti-social driving is pretty much out of their power to control decided to do something about it and now actively encourage such vigilantism http://www.operationcrackdown.org/ My own experience has been that is it is a bit hit'n'miss, much like my experience of direct interaction with the boys in blue.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Oct 2014)

compo said:


> This is Harlow. The PCSO would have his bike nicked before issuing his first ticket.


Hence I made no reference to a bike....


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## Drago (7 Oct 2014)

Where there is evidence to support it mobile phone use is recorded for the government's stats. Not being at work I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but the incidents of road rage related assaults we receive daily comfortably exceeds to number of all the RTCs reported to us, and when you consider that only a proportion of those RTCs involve mobiles then you're left with being slapped as a much higher likelihood. Perhaps coppercyclist could let us know how they compare up his way? As aforementioned, I've been involved in more road rage deaths than mobile phone related ones - a whole 'one'.

Why spend your days filming drivers placing others in danger, and then willingly place yourself in greater danger by getting involved in barneys with people? I'm suspicious of this chaps motivation in actively participating in these confrontations. Small man syndrome? Simple lack of self control? Just daft as a brush? I don't know, but why do it? I've seen road traffic prosecutions dropped because the witness undermined their own credibility by acting in such a manner, so at best he risks undermining his own efforts.


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## MisterStan (7 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> ....snip....
> Why spend your days filming drivers placing others in danger, and then willingly place yourself in greater danger by getting involved in barneys with people? I'm suspicious of this chaps motivation in actively participating in these confrontations. Small man syndrome? Simple lack of self control? Just daft as a brush? I don't know, but why do it? I've seen road traffic prosecutions dropped because the witness undermined their own credibility by acting in such a manner, so at best he risks undermining his own efforts.


Perhaps he just has a conscience and thinks he can do some good in his local community. 

IMHO he'd be best off just filming people and sending the evidence straight in, why confront people?


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## Arjimlad (7 Oct 2014)

It would be rather good if one didn't have to confront these phone-addicted wombles and could just send some film in.

Captain Astravan spotted on the way to work this morning gassing away on his white mobile phone whilst turning right with one hand...

Also the usual teenyboppers in Corsas and school-run Mums texting away in slow-moving traffic.

I don't have a camera but would gladly dob them in. I reckon I'd get at least five a day. Perhaps the fine income could be spent on road maintenance ?


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## w00hoo_kent (7 Oct 2014)

Arjimlad said:


> I don't have a camera but would gladly dob them in. I reckon I'd get at least five a day. Perhaps the fine income could be spent on road maintenance ?



Do the run home through Swanley, I spot at least five every day in slow moving traffic reading their email, updating facebook, or sending texts on their mobiles. Still, at least it keeps them off the roads... oh, wait.


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## Mugshot (7 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I'd be fascinated to know what the KSI stats are for people involved rtc's where a link to mobile use has been suspected by the investigating officers versus the KSI stats for road rage incidents.


The issue here is whether the police have any interest in investigating properly or not, in particular the use of mobile phones. Folowing my RTC (driver in a 4x4 piled into the back of my van) the investigating officer had no interest in actually investigating. Amongst a stream of bollocks and lies he tried to feed me was the answer to my question concerning mobile phone use.
Me - "Did you check to see if Mr X was on his phone at the time of the collision or leading up to it?"
Officer - "There's no evidence to suggest that Mr X had a mobile phone with him."
Me - "So you didn't check?"
Officer - "There's no evidence to suggest Mr X had a mobile phone with him."
Me - "Could you explain how his wife got to the scene as quickly as she did if he didn't contact her to pick him up?"
Officer - "Uh, er, um."
Sadly, whatever the reason for it is, there appears to be a distinct lack of interest in pursuing convictions for road related crime (I had to fight tooth and nail to get the guy that wrote my van off convicted, most people would have given up) particularly mobile phone use. 
Here's a nice recent story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29502630
I could stand outside my shop and see more in a day than were charged in 6 months in North Wales! It makes my blood boil


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## glenn forger (7 Oct 2014)

I've seen drivers hold the phone in their right hand to their left ear, and take their remaining hand off the steering wheel to change gear.


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## w00hoo_kent (7 Oct 2014)

Mugshot said:


> Officer - "There's no evidence to suggest that Mr X had a mobile phone with him."



Isn't 'he's over the age of 8 and it's 2014' evidence enough that he almost definitely had a mobile phone with him?


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## Mugshot (7 Oct 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Isn't 'he's over the age of 8 and it's 2014' evidence enough that he almost definitely had a mobile phone with him?


You certainly would have thought so wouldn't you?


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## jefmcg (7 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> *Bullied at school*, too much time on his hands, or both?


Please don't say stuff like that. Combined with your avatar, it sounds like he reminds you of someone you used to bully in school.

Edit: (this is going to get me in trouble ....)

Or this


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1jbNpi44Kk


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## jarlrmai (7 Oct 2014)

Its pretty simple, if the authorities took dangerous driving and mobile use seriously especially when presented with evidence of said dangerous driving / mobile use then there would be less confrontations.

As it is because they fail to do anything about it you will get "vigilante" episodes with cyclist confronting drivers.


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## Accy cyclist (8 Oct 2014)

After years of seeing selfish twats(both on and off road) using mobiles while clearly unaware of their surroundings i applaud this chap! If the plod are incapable of catching the offenders then the general public have to take the law in to their own hands!


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## EltonFrog (8 Oct 2014)

ClichéGuevara said:


> "Smile"



Evidence in one small photograph of someone who is taking himself far to seriously. Whoever that is, he does not look like he's very happy. If may be so bold to use a popular vernacular as used by some younger folk, he needs to chilax.


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## GrasB (8 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Are the confrontations needless or just inevitable? Should we always shy away from doing the right thing because it may result in confrontation?


Some confrontations are inevitable as you get caught up in stuff that involves road space conflicts. However this guy doesn't seem to just observe he seems to need to get an oar in as well, this means he gets into needless confrontations.


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## Ganymede (8 Oct 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/07/bullied-student-video-sunglasses-private-court-case

Bloke has successfully sued for bullying by wearing a camera in his sunglasses.... definitely a case that wouldn't have got anywhere without the evidence, but I think slightly disturbing. NB it was a civil prosecution because the polis wouldn't go there.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

Ganymede said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/07/bullied-student-video-sunglasses-private-court-case
> 
> Bloke has successfully sued for bullying by wearing a camera in his sunglasses.... definitely a case that wouldn't have got anywhere without the evidence, but I think slightly disturbing. NB it was a civil prosecution because the polis wouldn't go there.


But the evidence never got to court as the defendant pleaded guilty. @User will put us straight but in a civil private prosecution isn't the burned of proof decided on the balance of probability? Thus even without the video the defendant may well have lost.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

CarlP said:


> Evidence in one small photograph of someone who is taking himself far to seriously. Whoever that is, he does not look like he's very happy. If may be so bold to use a popular vernacular as used by some younger folk, he needs to chilax.


Staged photograph taken by a professional press photographer who simply would not have pressed the shutter, or would have binned the pictures, unless chummy looked suitably unchilled.


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## EltonFrog (8 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Staged photograph taken by a professional press photographer who simply would not have pressed the shutter, or would have binned the pictures, unless chummy looked suitably unchilled.



Indeed, I would not have let him take the photo.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

GrasB said:


> Some confrontations are inevitable as you get caught up in stuff that involves road space conflicts. However this guy doesn't seem to just observe he seems to need to oar in as well, this means he gets into needless confrontations.


Last month...

"You're taking the whole fecking road. You fecking cant. Is that a camera? Is that a fecking camara? I'm gonna fecking do you, you cant" And out of his driving seat he came. I rode off, oh the shame, through the red light, to escape to the safety of the pedestrian refuge in the middle of the DC I was waiting to join. And all I'd done was slowly shake my head as he tried to squeeze into the ASL box alongside me, in primary, about 10 secs after the light went red.

Some confrontations are inevitable because some folk, predominately men, have too much ego wrapped up in their performance behind the wheel, with some sort of race-track F1 fantasy going on in their groins, have no idea how to drive safely, especially around cyclists, and, I guess, all manner of cr@p and unresolved stuff going on in their lives, such that they have very, very short fuses. Chummy seems to ride with pretty much the same mindset how the nobbers drive.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

CarlP said:


> Indeed, I would not have let him take the photo.


I rather fear chummy is immensely pleased to have his 15 minutes. The logo on the space lemon suit says it all. He's "on a mission from God".


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## MisterStan (8 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Staged photograph taken by a professional press photographer who simply would not have pressed the shutter, or would have binned the pictures, unless chummy looked suitably unchilled.


Somewhat reminiscent of those photos you see on local news websites with outraged residents pointing at double yellow lines that are 3 inches long or a family looking sad as their cat has disappeared.


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## EltonFrog (8 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I rather fear chummy is immensely pleased to have his 15 minutes. The logo on the space lemon suit says it all. He's "on a mission from God".



If he carries on the way he's going, someone will move him closer to god.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

MisterStan said:


> Somewhat reminiscent of those photos you see on local news websites with outraged residents pointing at double yellow lines that are 3 inches long or a family looking sad as their cat has disappeared.


Earlier this year I spent about an hour of my life being interviewed about some local controversy I was involved in professionally. I smiled throughout. The photographer clicked throughout. They didn't use a single picture. The reporter, when I met her for a follow-up piece, was honest enough to admit the photo's didn't suit the angle of the story they were pursuing.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

CarlP said:


> If he carries on the way he's going, someone will move him closer to god.


Very few Keith Noyes out there. But looking at how he dresses he clearly thinks cycling is a high-risk activity!


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## compo (8 Oct 2014)

The day I rode with him he was very proud to tell me how compensation payments from drivers who had decked him allowed him to upgrade his cameras. As I said earlier I have no problem with recording bad driving but it seems a bit silly to deliberately provoke a confrontation.


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## CopperCyclist (8 Oct 2014)

Drago said:


> As aforementioned, I've been involved in more road rage deaths than mobile phone related ones - a whole 'one'.



For me, comparing deaths, its one a piece! One road rage death, and one mobile phone use death.

I do however completely agree that I have dealt with a lot more motoring incidents of road rage being a major factor than mobile phone use - as a guess, at least a factor of five. 

@Cycling Dan as Drago said, officially the are no 'stats' anymore. Officially... But even when there were, road traffic collisions weren't 'key performance indicators' and as such had no real effect on police 'performance'. 

I wholeheartedly agree with @Drago - if he really wants to film offences and upload to police witness, no probs - but there's no need at all to chase down and confront the drivers.


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## jefmcg (8 Oct 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> will put us straight but in a civil private prosecution isn't the burned of proof decided on the balance of probability?


If you read the link, it was a private prosecution, not a civil case. Civil cases don't end in custodial sentences. He took him to court under the criminal code.

(yes, burden of proof is less for a civil case, eg when you sue someone)


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2014)

User13710 said:


> If you read the link the case did go to the magistrate's court where the defendant pleaded guilty when faced with the video evidence. The CPS had said the case was a good one but declined to take it on as there were lawyers on both sides and no public interest would have been served (which I don't really understand). The guilty party chose a day in prison as a punishment rather than a £500 fine.





jefmcg said:


> If you read the link, it was a private prosecution, not a civil case. Civil cases don't end in custodial sentences. He took him to court under the criminal code.
> 
> (yes, burden of proof is less for a civil case, eg when you sue someone)



Read it. Didn't understand it.

But my main point is the video evidence wasn't aired in court.

"In the event the defendant pleaded guilty so the way in which the video evidence was obtained and its veracity was never an issue."


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## glenn forger (8 Oct 2014)

MisterStan said:


> Somewhat reminiscent of those photos you see on local news websites with outraged residents


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## Cycleops (8 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


You couldn't make it up.


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## Crankarm (8 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


>



And the fag in her hand ………………...


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


And the effect of the fag in her right hand on the unborn child was what?


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## MisterStan (9 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.


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