# The Cookson Chronicles - His actions as UCI president thus far



## Crackle (13 Oct 2013)

Cookson begins high level dialogue with WADA about investigating the UCI's past, Phillipe Verbiest, gone, Christophe Hubschmid, gone, action against Kimmage dropped (Wonder what that fund will do now, when they find it), all good so far...


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## rich p (13 Oct 2013)

He should try and get Michael Ashenden back in some capacity if possible.


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## deptfordmarmoset (13 Oct 2013)

USADA's Tigger seems happy as well - http://road.cc/content/news/96308-t...sons-election-win-huge-victory-clean-athletes

I'm guessing Heinous is still there because it isn't in BC's power to remove him but he's going to be having a nasty influence until he's gone.


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## Crackle (13 Oct 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'm guessing Heinous is still there because it isn't in BC's power to remove him but he's going to be having a nasty influence until he's gone.



I was wondering about that. I suppose the best he can do is marginalise him but he's still the elephant in the room.


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## thom (23 Oct 2013)

So the first thing Cookson did was, well actually before he was elected what he did, was instruct Kroll to secure the IT content at Aigle immediately on the event he was elected... No chance for anyone to wipe the tapes clean.

Unbeknown to UCI members, the election result was quickly relayed to Kroll operatives positioned outside UCI headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland, and working under instruction from Mr Cookson.

“They had to secure the computers,” Mr Cookson said in his first interview since his election. “They took all the back-up tapes and all the IT stuff. They were available to make sure that nothing was destroyed that shouldn’t be destroyed.”

Asked if he believed there was anything that was likely to have been destroyed, Mr Cookson said: “I don’t like to think there was anything that serious, but we had to take the precaution.”


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## resal (23 Oct 2013)

Thom that was so funny. It has made my day. 

So after 6 months notice, during which time, it never for a second looked likely that Pat would win, and even the most moronic of rotten eggs would have had time for the penny to drop, even if it were traveling at the speed of a glacier, that they needed to remove any incriminating files, .........

.......then the "A" Team swoop.

What makes it so incredibly hilarious is Cookson thinks we are as stupid as he is and tells it just like Baldrick revealing his most cunning plan.

Moment of the day. Thank you.


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## Hont (24 Oct 2013)

"I don't like to think there was anything serious, but we had to take the precaution"

That's just good governance. If they had done nothing, they would have looked incompetent.


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## Crackle (24 Oct 2013)

Hont said:


> "I don't like to think there was anything serious, but we had to take the precaution"
> 
> That's just good governance. If they had done nothing, they would have looked incompetent.


Absolutely. Resal makes a fair point about the evidence already being dealt with but that's hardly something Cookson could control until he was in a position too. Also I think the interview I originally linked to answers a lot of Resal's criticism of Cookson, don't know if he thinks that though.


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## Crackle (25 Oct 2013)

Answering an earlier question of my own. Cookson says honorary vice presidents don't have a vote nor do they attend management committee meetings any more. He wouldn't be drawn on whether the role will continue to exist but I would guess not by his expression.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-cookson-has-hectic-few-first-weeks-as-uci-president


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Oct 2013)

Cookson has taken a £76,000pa pay cut. (Or more importantly, we now know McQuaid was paid over £300,000 pa.)


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## thom (29 Oct 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Cookson has taken a £76,000pa pay cut. (Or more importantly, we now know McQuaid was paid over £300,000 pa.)


Holy Moly that is a lot of cash for a cash strapped organisation. I think £300,000 would fund a whole woman's team for a season !


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Oct 2013)

thom said:


> Holy Moly that is a lot of cash for a cash strapped organisation. I think £300,000 would fund a whole woman's team for a season !


true.

I forgot to include the link - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...dent-salary-76-000-less-than-pat-mcquaid.html


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## Crackle (29 Oct 2013)

No wonder Pat refused to answer questions on his salary and that was without the (alleged) backhanders from caught dopers


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## Supersuperleeds (29 Oct 2013)

Armstrong may be involved in the doping enquiry set up by Cookson - per BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24724501


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## deptfordmarmoset (29 Oct 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Armstrong may be involved in the doping enquiry set up by Cookson - per BBC
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24724501


Aye, it'll look like dodgy horse trading to some but I'm giving Cookson credit for trying to loosen the omertà.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Oct 2013)

It will take him time to make a long term impact - especially after years of poor management that supported doping.


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## rich p (30 Oct 2013)

Crackle said:


> No wonder Pat refused to answer questions on his salary and that was without the (alleged) backhanders from caught dopers


 He and Hein (and others) were rumoured to have a finger in the pie of the global cycling network that organised, amongst other races , the Tour of Beijing. It will be interesting to see if that is something Phat Pat still has an interest in now he's no longer in the UCI set up.


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## oldroadman (1 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> He and Hein (and others) were rumoured to have a finger in the pie of the global cycling network that organised, amongst other races , the Tour of Beijing. It will be interesting to see if that is something Phat Pat still has an interest in now he's no longer in the UCI set up.


 I think GCP is/was a directly owned subsidiary of UCI, so now Pat and Hein are sidelined, would hope they have nothing to do with the organisation. Time for a clean break and let BC get on with the job of implementing his manifesto. Interesting to see he has taken the BC legal man (I think) Mr Gibbs, with him, and now he is director general. Like BC has said, there are good people at UCI and hopefully they will emerge to do good things now that the old regime have been shifted out. A review one year in would be interesting, I think.


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## resal (1 Nov 2013)

Pat was "dead meat" the moment he refused Katusha a place on the World Tour. It was his equivalent of Lance making the call to get Floyd's entry refused at the TOC. I would dearly love to know what was going through Pat's brain at the time, because certainly he is no slouch on the wheeling and dealing front. 

BC will now have a few good months. How long it lasts will depend on what Makarov's guys dig up on BC/SKY Froome, Cav, Brad etc. One supplier bragging a bit too much and the next few years are going to be a great time for Russian cycling. Indeed the cards may already be dealt in in the hands and Igor is just waiting for the right time to play his ace. If Froome, Brad and Cav are all clean, BC will be able to get on largely unhindered. 

The trail to Rabo and the chicken is making Brailsford's spin, that he did due diligence on Leinders before hiring and comments after the event - "well I never!", seem ever more implausible. Ryder and McGrath can spin, "I only ever doped between the 3rd and 17th of August 2003" and get away with it. Brad's knighthood and the whole "we are the only clean team out there" vomo-spin means they are going to be in for a rough ride if Santa's white beard is found to be held on with elastic. This Rebekah Brooks and Coulson story coming on top of the Police plebegate farce is anesthetising the audience, so the voltage needs turning up higher to get the same shock effect.


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## Crackle (4 Nov 2013)

Some last thrashing by Verbruggen. He has a short memory about what he's done and said.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Nov 2013)

His memory seems to have headed the same way as his credibility.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 Nov 2013)

Still, however he contrives to reconcile himself with his conscience, the important thing is he's now out of it.


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## oldroadman (5 Nov 2013)

resal said:


> Pat was "dead meat" the moment he refused Katusha a place on the World Tour. It was his equivalent of Lance making the call to get Floyd's entry refused at the TOC. I would dearly love to know what was going through Pat's brain at the time, because certainly he is no slouch on the wheeling and dealing front.
> 
> BC will now have a few good months. How long it lasts will depend on what Makarov's guys dig up on BC/SKY Froome, Cav, Brad etc. One supplier bragging a bit too much and the next few years are going to be a great time for Russian cycling. Indeed the cards may already be dealt in in the hands and Igor is just waiting for the right time to play his ace. If Froome, Brad and Cav are all clean, BC will be able to get on largely unhindered.
> 
> The trail to Rabo and the chicken is making Brailsford's spin, that he did due diligence on Leinders before hiring and comments after the event - "well I never!", seem ever more implausible. Ryder and McGrath can spin, "I only ever doped between the 3rd and 17th of August 2003" and get away with it. Brad's knighthood and the whole* "we are the only clean team out there"* vomo-spin means they are going to be in for a rough ride if Santa's white beard is found to be held on with elastic. This Rebekah Brooks and Coulson story coming on top of the Police plebegate farce is anesthetising the audience, so the voltage needs turning up higher to get the same shock effect.


 
I can't recall ever seeing that in print or quoted anywhere, I do recall Sky simply saying they were a clean team and had a strong ethic twoards use of illegal substances and methods.
Leinders was a big error, but if I remember it came almost immediately following the death of the soigneur in Spain, and so probably it was a hasty decision. I would hope that the doctor was closely monitored and controlled, although at the point of hiring he had no evidence against him, only that he had worked with Rabobank (as was). All the same it does not now look like a good decision, but then as we all know hindsigt is the only exact science.
Very clever to get Makarov and Santa Claus in the same piece, along with Coulson and Wade, those naughty journalists - chapeau.


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## oldroadman (5 Nov 2013)

Missed one question - what on earth is "vomo-spin". Is this the secret training Sky are using to get wieght down?


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## rich p (9 Nov 2013)

I'm not sure if this article from the Grauniad has been posted
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/05/contact-lance-armstrong-uci-reconciliation?CMP=twt_gu
He seems to be doing the right things in the right way so far


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## Noodley (9 Nov 2013)

I'm liking Cookson. Not sure of that's just cos he couldn't have been any worse than Uncle Pat!


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## thom (9 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> I'm not sure if this article from the Grauniad has been posted
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/05/contact-lance-armstrong-uci-reconciliation?CMP=twt_gu
> He seems to be doing the right things in the right way so far


"The computers and documents from the UCI offices in Aigle that were secured by the security firm Kroll within hours of Cookson being voted into office on 27 September are now being held in a secure safe at Kroll. "The only person who can release those documents is me, and I can only do that on the say-so of the independent commission. It will be in their hands." "
Wow, I thought maybe they'd get on to have a look to see what is there… 
It sounds like being a very rigorous, straight process which whatever gets turned up should satisfy most people and agendas.


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## rich p (9 Nov 2013)

Yes, I'd have been down there like a shot!
I suppose the urgency seems less now that Phat has disappeared and Hein has fallen on sword.


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## thom (8 Jan 2014)

CIRC: Cycling Independent Reform Commission is formed

The UCI press release on this is here.


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## oldroadman (9 Jan 2014)

This is good, and what ever it finally reports (which may hurt for a while) the sport will be better for it. It may even persuade other sports to follow the example.


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## Crackle (12 Feb 2014)

So the framework for the commission looks all worked out. One year of investigation with a further 4 months as an option, the ability to hand out or reduce bans to UCI license holders, subject to WADA and UCI agreement, monthly reporting to Cookson etc....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cycling-independent-reform-commission-ready-to-go

12 months is not a long time though, having watched previous cases being enacted. One assumes they have a more summary process, relying on co-operation. Let's see what it brings out.


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## rich p (21 Mar 2014)

Tygart seems to be proactive and getting a bit worried as to whether Cookson and the ne broom is making enough effort
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-to-supply-circ-with-an-unredacted-reasoned-decision


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## Crackle (21 Mar 2014)

rich p said:


> Tygart seems to be proactive and getting a bit worried as to whether Cookson and the ne broom is making enough effort
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-to-supply-circ-with-an-unredacted-reasoned-decision


I'd cut Tygart a lot of slack but he seems to be trying to define the terms of the commission and I'm not really sure what his beef is besides haste.


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## rich p (21 Mar 2014)

Crackle said:


> I'd cut Tygart a lot of slack but he seems to be trying to define the terms of the commission and I'm not really sure what his beef is besides haste.


He's keeping the debate alive at least.


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## oldroadman (21 Mar 2014)

Tygart has his own agenda, some of which seems to be keep Tygart in the news. He knows as everyone else that the commission has been working three months, and the sort of stuff they are doing cannot be in the public arena, or they will get zero co-operation and results. The schedule is a year with up to a four month extension. Everyone else is patient, there's no panic, I want to see a proper result and things cleaned up, not a rushed job which gets a few baddies and oushes the rest underground. This has to be done properly, and once. The sport has had too many false starts under the old regime. All the clean riders (and ex-riders) will have nothing to worry about.


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## Crackle (30 Apr 2014)

You know, I was expecting to find a lot more to fill this thread with. It seemed like Phat was never out of the news but in this case, I can only think no news is good news.


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## thom (30 Apr 2014)

Crackle said:


> You know, I was expecting to find a lot more to fill this thread with. It seemed like Phat was never out of the news but in this case, I can only think no news is good news.


All we get is news like this, ASO announcing the La Course event with Marianne Vos :


View: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1418073031790987&set=vb.1391652451099712&type=2&theater


Long may it continue - people empowered to progress cycling without a defensive overlord grabbing the limelight.


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## Crackle (30 Apr 2014)

thom said:


> All we get is news like this, ASO announcing the La Course event with Marianne Vos :
> 
> 
> View: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1418073031790987&set=vb.1391652451099712&type=2&theater
> ...



Exactly. Cycling progressing quietly and with the right fanfare. Not sure about ASO's podium men announcement though.


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## User169 (30 Apr 2014)

He was in Liege on Sunday - presented Kwiatkowski with his medal.


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## Buddfox (30 Apr 2014)

And did the LBL sportive I think... he's worth following on Twitter, timely updates on what's going on.


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## MisterStan (30 Apr 2014)

thom said:


> All we get is news like this, ASO announcing the La Course event with Marianne Vos :
> 
> 
> View: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1418073031790987&set=vb.1391652451099712&type=2&theater
> ...



Has the cameraman fallen over? Who shoots video in portrait?


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## thom (30 Apr 2014)

MisterStan said:


> Has the cameraman fallen over? Who shoots video in portrait?


someone with an iPhone ?


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## oldroadman (1 May 2014)

Buddfox said:


> And did the LBL sportive I think... he's worth following on Twitter, timely updates on what's going on.


I saw that, I bet that not many heads of big international federations are quite so dedicated to their actual sport - imagine Blatter playing lower league football for fun! All power to Mr Cookson, I think he's about the early to mid-sixties, and getting round a hard ride like LBL shows the benefits of a lifetime's exercise. Body fit, brain works well. Just what a UCI president should be, someone who understands what it's like to sit and suffer a bit like the ordinary guys, and then tries to make things better for everyone.


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## User169 (1 May 2014)

Head of the Russian cycling federation is one of those named in the latest round of sanctions against 
Putin's mates.


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## deptfordmarmoset (1 May 2014)

I think I was a little conscious of the French distrust of the ''anglo-saxon'' influence on cycling, so I was worried about the reaction to him from over the water. It does seem that Cookson has even managed to leave French keyboard warriors with a lack of conspiracy theories to spout on about. It's not a criterion for judging his performance so far but, to me at least, it indicates something pretty significant. 

When someone on this board referred to LA the other day (was it @thom ?) to refer to Lizzie Armistead it reminded me about how, for an age, it would have been impossible to use them for anyone else. And just now I had to think hard to remember the name of the ex-president of the UCI. That's 2 potholes removed from the road....


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## The Couch (7 May 2014)

McQuaid (unsurprisingly ) is not overwhelmed with the new UCI leadership:
https://translate.google.com/transl...ortwereld/cnt/dmf20140506_01094874&edit-text=

Funny coincidence he chose the (infamous) Tour of Turkey to make an appearance


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## Crackle (7 May 2014)

For some reason I can't read that link now though I did manage to read most earlier. An excellent reminder of why Phat was such a bad UCI president.

Was Turkey not one of his supporters in the campaign?


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## Dogtrousers (7 May 2014)

The Couch said:


> McQuaid (unsurprisingly ) is not overwhelmed with the new UCI leadership:
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.nieuwsblad.be/sportwereld/cnt/dmf20140506_01094874&edit-text=
> 
> Funny coincidence he chose the (infamous) Tour of Turkey to make an appearance


 
Pretty feeble stuff.

Curiously his main criticsim of Cookson is that he's considering changes to the Lugano chartger restricting bikes to more or less traditional setups. That's a pretty weak charge: that he's daring even to _consider_ change.

Further, he goes on to criticise Cookson for being too close to Chris Boardman, a bike manufacturer, who invented the superman position for TT. Now, again my memory may be at fault but weren't the "superman" and "praying mantis" positions innovations from Obree, not Boardman?

Apart from being possibly incorrect in its details, that could potentially be a valid criticism. But a conflict of interest charge is pretty rich from Pat ... but we've been there before.

Anyway - the potential changes to the Lugano thingy - the business implications like UCI raising revenue from certification, excess bureaucracy etc, and the broader philosophical implications for the sport - could make an interesting discussion ... in another thread.


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## User169 (23 Jun 2014)

Anyone been following the JDD allegations re Froome's TUE? 

UCI needs to get a grip quickly as they're no looking too clever at the moment. 

Cookson needs to stop arguing on Twitter with Kimmage and either explain how the UCI is compliant with WADA's TUEC guidelines or 'fess up that they're not compliant and get it sorted.


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## shouldbeinbed (23 Jun 2014)

--------^--------- I was going to mention that ugly little spat blowing up too. Cookson is coming over a bit spin doctor in his answering hoping nobody will spot it and dig in. Unfortunately not. Too much suspicion of UCI still and Kimmage (IMO) fighting a rearguard action to remain a relevant figure as time and hopefully practices move forwards.


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## Crackle (23 Jun 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> Anyone been following the JDD allegations re Froome's TUE?
> 
> UCI needs to get a grip quickly as they're no looking too clever at the moment.
> 
> Cookson needs to stop arguing on Twitter with Kimmage and either explain how the UCI is compliant with WADA's TUEC guidelines or 'fess up that they're not compliant and get it sorted.


I've only just seen this explode in the press after going quiet but it seems they don't have a TUE committee, so indefensible really from a WADA perspective and Walsh has laid into them now too.


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## ColinJ (23 Jun 2014)

Instead of fast-tracking TUEs, they ought to fast-track rule changes as soon as it becomes obvious that they are needed! For example - banning the use of Tramadol.


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## resal (23 Jun 2014)

oldroadman said:


> I saw that, I bet that not many heads .............
> ....................... for everyone.


So glad you shared that with us, anyone would think................


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## User169 (23 Jun 2014)

resal said:


> So glad you shared that with us, anyone would think................


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## oldroadman (24 Jun 2014)

resal said:


> So glad you shared that with us, anyone would think................


Missed the last bit, what WOULD anyone think. Illuminate us.


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## User169 (24 Jun 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Instead of fast-tracking TUEs, they ought to fast-track rule changes as soon as it becomes obvious that they are needed! For example - banning the use of Tramadol.


 
Is the UCI allowed to do that, or does it have to wait for WADA?


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## User169 (24 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> I've only just seen this explode in the press after going quiet but it seems they don't have a TUE committee, so indefensible really from a WADA perspective and Walsh has laid into them now too.


 
Walsh says Sky used to have a no TUE policy, but they deny they ever had such a policy.


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## laurence (24 Jun 2014)

apparently the rules for the Track Omnium have been changed, but no one has been told. seems to be a lot of confusion about new track rules and non-olympic events being included in World Cup events.


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## ColinJ (24 Jun 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> Is the UCI allowed to do that, or does it have to wait for WADA?


I have no idea, but whoever makes these decisions should get on with it ASAP!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jun 2014)

Is there a list of riders who have TUEs available? Or is it seekrit?


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## resal (7 Jul 2014)

It is even worse than I suggested - in Nov 13, at The Wegelius thread, I brought up this rather uncomfortable fact.
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/charly-wegelius.143595/


resal said:


> ......I am sorry I don't sing the same happy tune ................
> 
> 
> OK so we have had all the Yates, Leinders and de Jong, talk. Let's cast our eyes somewhere no one has looked before.
> ...



Now have a look what O'Reily has to say about this time. 
http://www.podiumcafe.com/book-corner/2014/7/7/5876617/the-race-to-truth-by-emma-oreilly
When her ex-husband* Simon Lillistone was asked to testify* in support of one of the stories O'Reilly told Walsh, about ferrying drugs for Armstrong, he refused. He was now part of British Cycling - his boss was *Brian Cookson - and neither he nor they wanted the bad PR confirming the story would bring. When she met Cookson in 2013 - after he'd announced he was running for the presidency of the UCI on a clean broom ticket - O'Reilly told him he should have stood up for her in 2004: "I needed only one person to back up my story. If in 2004 you'd made Simon come out and admit what had happened, all this could have come out. Cycling could have been cleaned up way back. You could have done something great."*

Instead the politician without a spine didn't want the bad publicity. 

Oh - look now - it is the new clean Cookson era. 

Look at that bunch of names on that twitter account. I couldn't stand listening to five live and the coverage of the Tour over the week-end. Every time expert sumariser Rob Hayles spoke I thought "EPO".


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## Crackle (7 Jul 2014)

It's a big assumption Resal, that Cookson somehow pressured him about this. Lillistone was another source for Walsh, true but one does not lead to the other.


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## resal (7 Jul 2014)

Crackle said:


> It's a big assumption Resal, that Cookson somehow pressured him about this. Lillistone was another source for Walsh, true but one does not lead to the other.


I'm not saying that, but O'Reilly, who has first hand information, is suggesting is the case. I agree, I doubt he did anything of the sort but some of his staff did. He probably did nothing - which is exactly what a good CE does not do. 
Can you imagine the boss of a cycling organisation, in 2004, not being aware of the contents of LA confidential that year - the biggest sporting scandal ever to hit your sport. And if you knew one of the key bits of evidence was the testimony of a soigneur and you employed her ex-partner on a full-time basis at the heart of your organisation and he was an professional throughout the time EPO went gang-busters; and even if O'Reilly stated at the time she did not know what was in the brown bag she was driving over 1,000 miles to hand deliver for Lance, Lillestone would have to have known; then only a complete cretin would not have convened an investigation team to gather information for the board. 

You would have to be deliberately not going out of your way, not to look. And that, my friend, is what our friend Brian very obviously did.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2014)

The UCI seem to have tried to sneak this one through without much publicity:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-stripped-of-tour-de-france-results
I have no idea why he has not been stripped of his Giro title from 2009 if his Tour results have been stripped.


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> The UCI seem to have tried to sneak this one through without much publicity:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-stripped-of-tour-de-france-results
> I have no idea why he has not been stripped of his Giro title from 2009 if his Tour results have been stripped.


I saw that over on L'Equipe just now. It was a biological passport irregularity. I wonder whether the Giro was outside the period in which the passport irregularity occurred.


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## Crackle (12 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> The UCI seem to have tried to sneak this one through without much publicity:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-stripped-of-tour-de-france-results
> I have no idea why he has not been stripped of his Giro title from 2009 if his Tour results have been stripped.


Ah yes. A silent anouncement about the Silent Assassin. No idea why his Giro wasn't stripped, odd.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I saw that over on L'Equipe just now. It was a biological passport irregularity. I wonder whether the Giro was outside the period in which the passport irregularity occurred.



Ah yes, that would make sense. In a nonsensical UCI way.


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> Ah yes, that would make sense. In a nonsensical UCI way.


I'm assuming that the passport only came in in time for the TdF in 2009, i.e. just before the Giro? Knowledgeable people should be able to confirm or dismiss this.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I'm assuming that the passport only came in in time for the TdF in 2009, i.e. just before the Giro? Knowledgeable people should be able to confirm or dismiss this.


It was introduced in 2008, but as you said it might be the irregularity appeared after the Giro, which I doubt as he was clearly juiced during it.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> The UCI seem to have tried to sneak this one through without much publicity



All part of the UCIs new non-communication communication strategy.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/men...new-way-of-communicating-on-doping-violations


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## Crackle (13 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> All part of the UCIs new non-communication communication strategy.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/men...new-way-of-communicating-on-doping-violations


Not good. Not good at all. I'm fairly sure Cookson promised us more transpareny.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2014)

Crackle said:


> Not good. Not good at all. I'm fairly sure Cookson promised us more transpareny.



At least they have told us where it's all hidden away.


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## oldroadman (13 Jul 2014)

Questions -
1. does any other sports governing body issue a press release when one of their competitors gets a non-negative result?
2. Does any other sports body operate a bio-passport system?
Answers to 1 is probably no. Answer to 2 is don't know.

So why should cycling issue press releases saying "we caught one". I've not seen UK Sport/UKADA doing this, and they cover all sports. But they do have a list on the website. Which seems fair enough, even if it only makes people look who really want to find out, as opposed to a release and all the uninformed/ignorant feel the need to comment. Who knows how many weightlifters tested non-negative for steroids, for example? No idea? You can look it up, but their NGB does not send out a "please kick us in the nuts" press release.


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## Crackle (13 Jul 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Questions -
> 1. does any other sports governing body issue a press release when one of their competitors gets a non-negative result?
> 2. Does any other sports body operate a bio-passport system?
> Answers to 1 is probably no. Answer to 2 is don't know.
> ...


None of them have the image of cycling to put behind them. None of them made a pledge of transparency or to deal with the history of the sport. Moving to such a system seems premature and naive.

A survey in France revealed ony 16% of the public thoight this tour would end without a doping scandal.


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## rich p (13 Jul 2014)

Crackle said:


> None of them have the image of cycling to put behind them. None of them made a pledge of transparency or to deal with the history of the sport. Moving to such a system seems premature and naive.
> 
> A survey in France revealed ony 16% of the public thoight this tour would end without a doping scandal.


I agree with your point but weight-lifting has a dodgy past at least as poor as cycling


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## rich p (13 Jul 2014)

p.s. Let's face it, half the fun of following pro-cycling in the last few years has been seeing twats like Menchov, Rasmussen, Landis, Hamilton, Armstrong, Ullrich, Ricco, Basso, Rebellin etc, get their come-uppance


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Questions -
> 1. does any other sports governing body issue a press release when one of their competitors gets a non-negative result?
> 2. Does any other sports body operate a bio-passport system?
> Answers to 1 is probably no. Answer to 2 is don't know.
> ...



Part of Cookson's pledge was to be more transparent. Not mine, his.


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## oldroadman (13 Jul 2014)

Marmion said:


> Part of Cookson's pledge was to be more transparent. Not mine, his.


True and I fail to see that he isn't. Being transparent does not mean shouting every time a miscreant is caught, but it is putting on a public section of the website we can all view, if we are interested.


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## rich p (13 Jul 2014)

oldroadman said:


> True and I fail to see that he isn't. Being transparent does not mean shouting every time a miscreant is caught, but it is putting on a public section of the website we can all view, if we are interested.


I take your point too ORM. It's just a question of how you view transparency.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2014)

oldroadman said:


> True and I fail to see that he isn't. Being transparent does not mean shouting every time a miscreant is caught, but it is putting on a public section of the website we can all view, if we are interested.



It probably would have helped if there had been some kind of announcement beforehand along the lines of "we are no longer making announcements but all details will be available via the webpage - if you're interested" or suchlike. Rather than someone noticing Menchov's name and then notifying of the change.


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## resal (13 Jul 2014)

oldroadman said:


> True and I fail to see that he isn't. Being transparent does not mean shouting every time a miscreant is caught, but it is putting on a public section of the website we can all view, if we are interested.


Err I think I disagree. Anyway going with your brand of logic - can you please explain why he was caught in May 2013 but it only appeared on the transparent, but nobody knew about it, website in June of this year. For all I know Phillip Windsor has tested positive on the Mal 400m handicap dash that took place last week and has been banned but his name won't appear until September 2015. 

Has Makarov got his hands on some sensitive parts of anatomy ?


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## Crackle (14 Jul 2014)

The Inner Ring sums it up well as usual. They mention Makarov but conclude cock-up rather than conspiracy

http://inrng.com/2014/07/denis-menchovs-silent-prosecution/


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## HF2300 (14 Jul 2014)

Crackle said:


> The Inner Ring sums it up well as usual. They mention Makarov but conclude cock-up rather than conspiracy
> 
> http://inrng.com/2014/07/denis-menchov-silent-prosecution/



Link fixed


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## rich p (14 Jul 2014)

Given that A Scheck was awarded the race after Bertie's mis-steak, but was clearly juiced - it seems that Sammy Sanchez was the winner of the 2010 TdF then.


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2014)

Cookson explains the process of releasing the Menchov results and accepts that they may have to change the process for some cases but denies any cover up

_"I understand the implications of that but first of all it was reported, it was on the website, it was not hidden at all, that's what we do normally. It might have been better if we'd made a more positive announcement about it but that's not what we've done at any time in the past. The only tine we've commented on doping cases that have been completed or in progress, is when a rider or his team, national Federation or others have commented. We've confirmed or not as the case maybe. That's what we do, that's why we do it. I think it's important that cases have to follow our rules, WADA rules and that's happened here."_


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## The Couch (16 Jul 2014)

rich p said:


> Given that A Scheck was awarded the race after Bertie's mis-steak, but was clearly juiced - it seems that Sammy Sanchez was the winner of the 2010 TdF then.


Don't go there, the way that thinking is going, Wiggins, Evans, well... perhaps even Jensie could be the "real winner" of that Tour 

Back on topic, I do feel this was - at minimum - very badly managed... but let's see what the future brings qua doping releases/discoveries


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Aug 2014)

Mr Saxoff-Tinko isnae happy with him:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exclusive-tinkov-ready-for-legal-battle-with-the-uci

He does make some valid points in amongst the usual ramblings.


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## HF2300 (7 Aug 2014)

_"Speaking in an exclusive interview at his summer home on the Tuscan coast after a ride in the nearby hills..."_

Sounds more like Hello magazine than a cycling journal.


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## phil_hg_uk (7 Aug 2014)

HF2300 said:


> _"Speaking in an exclusive interview at his summer home on the Tuscan coast after a ride in the nearby hills..."_
> 
> Sounds more like Hello magazine than a cycling journal.



Damn I wish I had a summer house to speak exclusively from


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## rich p (7 Aug 2014)

Marmion said:


> Mr Saxoff-Tinko isnae happy with him:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exclusive-tinkov-ready-for-legal-battle-with-the-uci
> 
> He does make some valid points in amongst the usual ramblings.


He does have some points and the UCI does come over as amateurish and making up rules on the hoof ....
... but Kreuziger is guilty as hell and has been smelling fishy for some time. It would be irritating if he got results that would later be annulled when the case is finally heard. Cookson is keen to get these BP cases sorted quicker in future.


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## Crackle (7 Aug 2014)

Who's the rider he didn't sign then?

He's right. Suddenly the bio passport is being used like an A-sample. It's hard to know if that's correct without knowing a lot more about the nature of the anomalies and the science behind it.


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## Crackle (7 Aug 2014)

rich p said:


> He does have some points and the UCI does come over as amateurish and making up rules on the hoof ....
> ... but Kreuziger is guilty as hell and has been smelling fishy for some time. It would be irritating if he got results that would later be annulled when the case is finally heard. Cookson is keen to get these BP cases sorted quicker in future.


Evil Astana, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more. Vino will be along shortly to give an interview which removes all doubt.


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## rich p (7 Aug 2014)

Crackle said:


> Evil Astana, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more. Vino will be along shortly to give an interview which removes all doubt.


It's not as if I'm making snap judgments based on prejudice and precedence...
... a fat bloke down the pub told me.


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## Crackle (7 Aug 2014)

rich p said:


> It's not as if I'm making snap judgments based on prejudice and precedence...
> ... a fat bloke down the pub told me.


You met marmion in the pub?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Aug 2014)

Crackle said:


> You met marmion in the pub?



Scouse git (with dodgy knees)


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## HF2300 (7 Aug 2014)

rich p said:


> He does have some points and the UCI does come over as amateurish and making up rules on the hoof ....
> ... but Kreuziger is guilty as hell and has been smelling fishy for some time....



...and what's good for Tinkov's bank balance isn't necessarily good for cycling.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Aug 2014)

HF2300 said:


> ...and what's good for Tinkov's bank balance isn't necessarily good for cycling.


Indeed, a lot of what has been bad about cycling is due to "business".
But he does make some good points as well (as I said earlier before I had drunk 2 glasses of wine)


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2014)

First WADA and now CAS have agreed that the UCI approach of suspending a rider with abnormalities on their Bio-passport is legit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kreuziger-loses-cas-appeal-and-will-miss-vuelta-a-espana

I wasn't sure of this at first but now I'm thinking it's a good thing.


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Aug 2014)

Crackle said:


> First WADA and now CAS have agreed that the UCI approach of suspending a rider with abnormalities on their Bio-passport is legit.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kreuziger-loses-cas-appeal-and-will-miss-vuelta-a-espana
> 
> I wasn't sure of this at first but now I'm thinking it's a good thing.



Well, there's really not much point to the biopassport if you don't take action when anomolous readings occur.


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## rich p (20 Aug 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, there's really not much point to the biopassport if you don't take action when anomolous readings occur.


I think the point at issue is the length of time between a possible anomaly and being found guilty or not guilty. Should the rider be suspended pro tem.
That was Tinkov's point I think.
The UCI relied on teams pulling riders out without having an agreed, enforcable policy to do so


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, there's really not much point to the biopassport if you don't take action when anomolous readings occur.


Until now that has not been the policy or implementation.


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## User169 (20 Aug 2014)

Crackle said:


> First WADA and now CAS have agreed that the UCI approach of suspending a rider with abnormalities on their Bio-passport is legit.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kreuziger-loses-cas-appeal-and-will-miss-vuelta-a-espana
> 
> I wasn't sure of this at first but now I'm thinking it's a good thing.



There was an interesting point on inrng yesterday. Kreuzigers medical expert is the same dude that JTL used. Given the short shrift his evidence was given by UKAD, I wonder if Kreuziger will be in the market for a new expert.


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## HF2300 (20 Aug 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> ...I wonder if Kreuziger will be in the market for a new expert.



...Or a new job.


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## Crackle (20 Aug 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> There was an interesting point on inrng yesterday. Kreuzigers medical expert is the same dude that JTL used. Given the short shrift his evidence was given by UKAD, I wonder if Kreuziger will be in the market for a new expert.


I hope he's not using the same defence though.


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## User169 (20 Aug 2014)

Crackle said:


> I hope he's not using the same defence though.



I think he's working on a new one now!

If nothing else, you've got to admire some of the biological inventiveness that goes into these defences.


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## Crackle (25 Sep 2014)

Good article in CN today about Cooksons first 12 months in office. It doesn't make for great reading.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/has-cookson-kept-his-promises


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## Flying_Monkey (25 Sep 2014)

Crackle said:


> Good article in CN today about Cooksons first 12 months in office. It doesn't make for great reading.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/has-cookson-kept-his-promises



No, it doesn't. And although McQuaid is completely ridiculous to try to blame the Tour of Beijing fiasco on Cookson - this was Verbruggen / McQuaid disaster from the start, was always going to end badly, and it should never have happened - Cookson has been very disappointing so far.


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## montage (25 Sep 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> No, it doesn't. And although McQuaid is completely ridiculous to try to blame the Tour of Beijing fiasco on Cookson - this was Verbruggen / McQuaid disaster from the start, was always going to end badly, and it should never have happened - Cookson has been very disappointing so far.



Cookson inherited an absolute dung heap riddled with the worms of corruption - it's going to take him a while to present something well polished, let's just hope he is afforded the time to do so.


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## thom (25 Sep 2014)

montage said:


> Cookson inherited an absolute dung heap riddled with the worms of corruption - it's going to take him a while to present something well polished, let's just hope he is afforded the time to do so.


That's kind of what I feel too. Not that constructive criticism isn't valid though.


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## montage (25 Sep 2014)

thom said:


> That's kind of what I feel too. Not that constructive criticism isn't valid though.



Of course, he needs to be held accountable, and we cannot assume he will be great just because he is British (though he does have a great track record with BC). I have faith in his integrity, and believe he is going all out to do as much as he can rather than dossing out on the job. Unfortunately, we want more and we want it now, but I guess bureaucracy has slowed matters down somewhat and the reality is that things will take longer than anticipated. I am definitely prepared to cut him some slack, and would prefer that the job was done properly on an appropriate time scale rather than rushed due to media pressure. On the other hand, all of this could be completely wrong and he could just be crap, time will tell - 12 months is certainly not enough!


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## rich p (26 Sep 2014)

As if by magic...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-shorts-uci-agrees-to-create-global-anti-doping-tribunal
some independence and clarity on doping cases coming and some positive signs on womens' racing.


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## Crackle (26 Sep 2014)

rich p said:


> As if by magic...
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-shorts-uci-agrees-to-create-global-anti-doping-tribunal
> some independence and clarity on doping cases coming and some positive signs on womens' racing.


Turns that first cn report on its head. Crap reporting to produce an analysis one day and then contradict it the next.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Sep 2014)

It's possible that the annoucements were precisely timed to stem the '1 year on' criticism... not that I'm a cynic or anything!


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## resal (27 Sep 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's possible that the annoucements were precisely timed to stem the '1 year on' criticism... not that I'm a cynic or anything!


I am not a Cookson fan. Look at this tweet from Cookson yesterday. OK so we don't expect him to see every little decision his staff make and some fan-boy cretin has not kept up with Lance story and the role Eddy played in bringing Ferrari and Lance together. Eddy is old school. I used to adore him. I thought his end of his career weird and always found it at great conflict with the rest of his career. Now, with more mature eyes, I view him as a con-man, like so many in the sport and his career finale exactly matches his personality. Quite happy to rob to line his own pockets. More was never enough, when there was something else on the table to steal and sending his son to Ferrari shows that he is unreformed. I know for a lot that is like calling out Tom Simpson and is a big pill to swallow, but there is no half-way house.

OK so Cookson suddenly finds himself at a conference the UCI have put on to show that they are caring-sharing-loving and this is not a poisonous lake of broken contracts, deals completed under the table, with drugs everywhere. Cookson gets there and finds that a pair of old school dopers have been hired in by one of the less able in his staff. What should he do ? Well exactly like whoever handed the silver medal to Solovney the other day or to Vino in the Mal, smile politely and do the job, but don't endorse the action with any kind words and don't hang around for the photo shoot.

But what does the guy do - slips into fan-boy mode and gets a selfie done. And even as the cogs whir around in his brain and he prepares a tweet, he still can't work out what is so wrong about what he is doing. Now either he is too thick to work out that these pair are scum, in which case, he is not fit to be in office where being chief snake-catcher has to be the number one role, or he has let his own personal "fan boy" - oh it's my hero the great Eddy, swoon, man-crush, can I have a photo with him, - look where my petty politiking at an obscure local council working on regional development has got me - rubbing shoulders with my boyhood heroes - oh my - swoon - emotions take over, in which case, once again, he is entirely unsuited to the task ahead of him.

If he had any balls and a brain and really did want to tell the Juniors he cared about them, he would have stood up at the start and said. I am sorry I have had to cancel the guest speakers this afternoon. One of my staff was not aware of the full background of those individuals, as I President of the UCI am. Let me now tell you about our sport and the difficulty we all have in cleaning it up. During your career, you will probably come across many times, people who have doped in the past. Many of these individuals want you to dope so that they feel happy that they were so weak that they doped. So let me tell you how they con the innocent and turn, enthusiastic and innocent people, like many of you in front of me, and have corrupted this great sport ...............


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## oldroadman (30 Sep 2014)

resal said:


> I am not a Cookson fan. Look at this tweet from Cookson yesterday. OK so we don't expect him to see every little decision his staff make and some fan-boy cretin has not kept up with Lance story and the role Eddy played in bringing Ferrari and Lance together. Eddy is old school. I used to adore him. I thought his end of his career weird and always found it at great conflict with the rest of his career. Now, with more mature eyes, I view him as a con-man, like so many in the sport and his career finale exactly matches his personality. Quite happy to rob to line his own pockets. More was never enough, when there was something else on the table to steal and sending his son to Ferrari shows that he is unreformed. I know for a lot that is like calling out Tom Simpson and is a big pill to swallow, but there is no half-way house.
> 
> OK so Cookson suddenly finds himself at a conference the UCI have put on to show that they are caring-sharing-loving and this is not a poisonous lake of broken contracts, deals completed under the table, with drugs everywhere. Cookson gets there and finds that a pair of old school dopers have been hired in by one of the less able in his staff. What should he do ? Well exactly like whoever handed the silver medal to Solovney the other day or to Vino in the Mal, smile politely and do the job, but don't endorse the action with any kind words and don't hang around for the photo shoot.
> 
> ...


A very firmly expressed opinion. Starts out with a statement and follows up with more statements. It's good to know where people stand. In my own view a year is not nearly enough time to sort out the mess that years of mismanagement have left. If the dung heap (as quoted) is as big as alleged, then shovelling it all up and cleaning the ground will take a full term. Probably the best time to see what beneficial changes have happened is 3 years in, much closer to the end of the term. There's no doubt expectations are high and rightly so, people who stick their heads above the parapet expect to be sniped at, but at least the man is brave enough to do so, rather than hide behind bullshine and platitudes as the previous regime did for at least two long presidencies.


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## resal (5 Oct 2014)

Had a bit more of a think about this one. OK so if Lance had not been exposed would Cookson have thought it ok to do a selfie with him ? How about Big Mig ? Loads of smoke about Saiz and Banesto - only a ostrich could imagine that Mig rocketed up those alpine passes faster than climbers like Millar without EPO boost. But he has never tested positive so is that "good" ? Is Big Mig next on the list to be a role model to the Juniors ?

What Cookson is saying here is - I like people who don't get caught or in Eddy's case were caught but it was dismissed as of irrelevance cos he is such a "good guy" to this star struck fanboy.

To every junior Cookson is saying - hey look kids - the moral of this tale is don't get caught and then we still love you 

- cheating pays - 

look this guy made a complete career on the back of stealing wins from the clean guys and even though he tested positive - I still love him. Cheat all you want, nobody gives a damn about that, just don't get caught and if you do, go quietly. A few years later you too can be feted like this. 

On so many levels that tweet was so disappointing.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Oct 2014)

Come on, you're in a minority of one if you don't think that Eddy M wasn't the greatest (or at least in the top 3) of all time. And no, that doesn't mean that I endorse doping. I also loved Pantani and still do. Ditto.


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## resal (5 Oct 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Come on, you're in a minority of one if you don't think that Eddy M wasn't the greatest (or at least in the top 3) of all time. And no, that doesn't mean that I endorse doping. I also loved Pantani and still do. Ditto.



FM, your position is entirely illogical.

Where would Pantani be without EPO ? Certainly he would not be famous for winning cycle races, he might even still be alive right now. 

You are trying to say you don't approve of dopers but you like what they can do, when they are using dope. 

Quite baffling. Completely baffling


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## StuAff (5 Oct 2014)

Merckx got caught three times by the testing regime of the time. And judged and punished for it by the standards of the time.
Greatest road cyclist of all time? Damn right.
No contradiction. If you'd seriously like to argue that any drug could have made all the difference in (say) the 1969 Tour de France win (winning margin 17 mins 54 seconds), and to explain how you would determine who (if anyone) should have been the winner under your brand of retrospective justice, given that you would be unable to obtain relevant and viable test samples without the aid of a time machine, please do.


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## Flying_Monkey (6 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> FM, your position is entirely illogical.
> 
> Where would Pantani be without EPO ? Certainly he would not be famous for winning cycle races, he might even still be alive right now.
> 
> ...



So you really don't do complexity? You can't hold two contradictory ideas in your head at once and appreciate the truth to both of them?

I don't approve of doping in sport, the whole stupid, destructive circus that produces it, and the lives it destroys, but I can appreciate the style, talent and sacrifices of sportspeople, yes, even those who dope.

And Pantani was an amazing talent and would have been with or without the EPO - you've read Matt Rendel's book at the very least, I would hope.


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## rich p (6 Oct 2014)

It's quite clear that most of us still love and follow pro cycling even though we know that some of the heroes of yesteryear had feet of clay and even though we know that doping is still going on.
@resal , we accept that fact and still appreciate racing, its anomalies and the level of endeavour going into it. We're not blind or stupid but only too aware of the hypocrisy and contradictions.
The really, really baffling thing is why someone, as clearly disenchanted and bitter about it all as you seem to be, still maintains any interest.


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## oldroadman (6 Oct 2014)

Those who stayed clean probably suffered for it, but stayed healthy. There always were two speeds, and at one time over half were in the "fast" section. But the standards of the time were very different, and to try and judge that period by today's standards is baffling. For instance, in a peloton from the 60's, let's say, probably over half were using something like amphets, BUT the best riders were still winning. Not the best fuelled. This does not make it morally right by today's standards, it's simply how it was. Cycling was not unique, without controls at today's levels, all sports were affected. Distance runners were even messing about with blood transfusions even then. What we have today is a different situation, the message is not "don't get caught", it's "don't do it". Whilst there will always be a degree of temptation and some will succumb, they have a far greater chance of being caught and banned. When the four year ban comes in it effectively means career over for anyone over 28, and career stunted for anyone younger. We should look back and understand the environment of the past eras, realise that applying today's standards was not an option, and move on. If anyone wants to suggest that Merckx should be disqualified from his wins, then who moves up, were they "clean", or even tested, or do we simply expunge everything up until a certain date and pretend it all never happened? To come back to the initial subject, I think Mr Cookson knew what he was likely to find from the denier Hein and his anointed successor's time in office, and has started what will be at least a three year, if not more, project, to lift the sport's image. Right now it appears that cycling carries out more testing than any other sport, and if you do that you should catch more of the "sinners". better to be open and do that, than brush things under the carpet as the previous regime wanted to do, and which continues outside cycling. Want to see really "interesting" approaches packed with self interest and money driven ways of running a sport - try FIFA!


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## oldroadman (6 Oct 2014)

Oh, and it's raining, and I don't go out in the rain. Bad enough when you are getting paid to do it and it's necessary!


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## resal (6 Oct 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> So you really don't do complexity? You can't hold two contradictory ideas in your head at once and appreciate the truth to both of them?
> 
> I don't approve of doping in sport, the whole stupid, destructive circus that produces it, and the lives it destroys, but I can appreciate the style, talent and sacrifices of sportspeople, yes, even those who dope.
> 
> And Pantani was an amazing talent and would have been with or without the EPO - you've read Matt Rendel's book at the very least, I would hope.



There is nothing to be complex about. Which rules are to be obeyed and which rules are to be ignored - provided you can do it with style ? 

How about a non-stylish rider - do they get more rules because we don't like looking at them ? How about colour of skin, is that a factor or to suggest so suddenly brings you all over goosey !

The position presented is entirely one to try to ignore reality. Matt Rendel - don't make me laugh - a guy making money pedaling a myth to those who can't face the reality of their conflict. 

And oldroadman - of course times have changed and certainly a blind eye was turned to Merckx. But can't you see that the message is so simple - he is an example of cheats win - just don't get caught. Cookson should have politely shaken his hand and moved away as soon as possible, not done his man-crush selfie.


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## HF2300 (6 Oct 2014)

I wish I could see in black and white.


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## thom (6 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> There is nothing to be complex about. Which rules are to be obeyed and which rules are to be ignored - provided you can do it with style ?
> 
> How about a non-stylish rider - do they get more rules because we don't like looking at them ? How about colour of skin, is that a factor or to suggest so suddenly brings you all over goosey !
> 
> ...


Wake up @resal, take your head out of your arse - there's more going on in cycling than this. Whatever kind of a point you have, it isn't nearly as strong as you're trying to make out. I find there's a dichotomy in FM's position on Pantani too (he acknowledges that himself). I think he's a bit overly enamoured with that myth, but ffs, put yourself and us out of your misery and move on. One selfie doesn't condemn a man in the absolutist terms your putting on this. Nobody will legislate based upon this. It doesn't represent a policy position and you'd be a cretin to think you could achieve anything worthwhile in cycling without making mistakes along the way.

Please excuse us from this tedium !


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> How about colour of skin, is that a factor or to suggest so suddenly brings you all over goosey



Actually, if you take a look around this forum, you'll notice I've been quite interested in what's going on in African and Asian cycling and hoping that riders from both continents get greater representation in the pro-peloton... but what exactly is your implication here?

You know, I've defended you in the past when I thought you had a serious point, however obnoxious you were being, but frankly, you're just coming across as narrow-minded and extremely rude, and you can't expect people to engage with you on that basis.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Oct 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ...and you can't expect people to engage with you on that basis.



Oh, I don't know, it seems to be working


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Oct 2014)

Marmion said:


> Oh, I don't know, it seems to be working



That message was a 'bye bye'...


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Oct 2014)

User3094 said:


> Be careful with that comment, as I'm sure you know, unilateral EPO use by no means a level playing field, as both Millar and Hamilton explain in their biogs.
> 
> That's not to say, don't be a fan of Pantani, he was unique of his time. How 'amazing' without the juice? We will never know.



Well, we do because we know pretty much exactly when he started taking it. And he was still amazing before that.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Oct 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, we do because we know pretty much exactly when he started taking it. And he was still amazing before that.



You must have read a different Rendell book to the one I did then.


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## rich p (7 Oct 2014)

I too thought that Pantani was doping from an early age but I might be confusing him with Ricco.
I'd check the book but, to be honest, I found it pretty dry and uninteresting and can't face going back to it to check


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Oct 2014)

rich p said:


> I too thought that Pantani was doping from an early age but I might be confusing him with Ricco.
> I'd check the book but, to be honest, I found it pretty dry and uninteresting and can't face going back to it to check



I'll save you the bother - he was doping as an amateur, so all his results were thanks to drugs.


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## resal (7 Oct 2014)

thom said:


> Wake up @resal, take your head out of your arse - there's more going on in cycling than this. Whatever kind of a point you have, it isn't nearly as strong as you're trying to make out. I find there's a dichotomy in FM's position on Pantani too (he acknowledges that himself). I think he's a bit overly enamoured with that myth, but ffs, put yourself and us out of your misery and move on. One selfie doesn't condemn a man in the absolutist terms your putting on this. Nobody will legislate based upon this. It doesn't represent a policy position and you'd be a cretin to think you could achieve anything worthwhile in cycling without making mistakes along the way.
> 
> Please excuse us from this tedium !


Cookson is not Joe Public. Stop modelling your own actions on him. He is paid big bucks to lead our sport. It is deep in the sh** because it can never break the cycle of past dopers managing teams and being held up as heroes. 

With all those perks comes responsibility. Responsibility to set aside his personal preferences and tastes and act in the good of those he represents. He wants to run a show telling the youngsters how they should behave, well don't put a known cheat in front of them who has made a fortune and livilihood out of doing so. And if it does happen, by error, rise above it all. Cookson didn't and that is what I am criticizing him for. 

Shooting at the Eddy idol, I know I am on the square outside the Vatican and selling de revolutionibus orbium coelestium.


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## thom (7 Oct 2014)

resal said:


> Shooting at the Eddy idol, I know I am on the square outside the Vatican and selling de revolutionibus orbium coelestium.


You wish!


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Oct 2014)

Marmion said:


> I'll save you the bother - he was doping as an amateur, so all his results were thanks to drugs.



As I recall, Rendell does suggest that, but lacks firm evidence - and the only hard evidence we have is from the newspaper investigation that found he was on Conconi's program from 1993 onwards when he turned pro with Carrera. His talent was in any case recognised as a kid. But yes, he was on EPO his entire pro career. As were, it seems, from the same investigations, all of his cohort - from whom he stood out regardless. Anyway, I'm happy to accept correction if I remember wrongly.

Anyway, I'm not defending Pantani's doping or anyone else's. However, I can still think of him with sadness, sympathy and some admiration. His talent was relentlessly abused by those around him as much as he treated his own body carelessly. These are all different and unresolved thoughts. Nevertheless the human brain is capable of holding two or three (or more) unesolved and contradictory thoughts at the same time. And not all views can be resolved one way or the other (or should be). That way leads either to justification or to the utter condemnation of everything and everybody. It's about compassion and empathy and being human. And that was exactly the point of what I was saying earlier.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Oct 2014)

User3094 said:


> ... or because of....



That only makes any kind of sense if you delete the first half of the sentence you were (mis)quoting...


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## The Couch (28 Oct 2014)

I read this on a Belgian newspaper (and just had it translated by Google):

_Brian Cookson, President of, the UCI, put the door ajar for Lance Armstrong. The Brit says that former sevenfold Tour winner might be forgiven for his doping past. "You can not exclude anyone of them," said Cookson. 

"In the case of Armstrong it all depends on what he stated to the CIRC and whether he participated in the interrogation. He must also show sincere regret." The CIRC is an independent reform commission investigating doping in cycling - Armstrong was recently called to tell his story. In January, the committee comes out with its findings. If a symbolic forgiveness for Armstrong also means that the American can re-record a function in cycling, is far from certain. 

"The CIRC should provide that," said Cookson. The committee considers should be made to capture clear guidelines to determine whether a doping sinner may subsequently active in the sport. Based on the study by the US Anti-Doping Agency USADA Armstrong suspended for life at this time._


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## Crackle (28 Oct 2014)

Another quote from Cookson and something we've talked about on here before, about Sky not developing British talent, which I know there are split opinions about but..

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...oning-british-development-sir-dave-brailsford

_“I’m reluctant to criticise Sir David Brailsford in any way because he has done amazing things with British Cycling and with Team Sky, but I feel that the team isn’t quite staying true to one of the reasons it was formed. I mean, the Yates brothers should be in Team Sky.”_

I Personally agree with the sentiment. Sky have lost their way.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Oct 2014)

Crackle said:


> _I feel that the team isn’t quite staying true to one of the reasons it was formed. I mean, the Yates brothers should be in Team Sky.”_


If it's not a formally stated and measured requirement for the team to "develop British talent" then there will inevitably be a conflict of interest between results and development, and results will win. If it's a wishy-washy aspiration it will soon be forgotten.

I think (but I'm not sure ... I think I read it on here) that some of the European national lottery funded teams may have local development as a requirement of their funding, formally defined.

Anyway, now he's at the UCI, not BC, is it really any of his business who Sky pick?


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## oldroadman (28 Oct 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> If it's not a formally stated and measured requirement for the team to "develop British talent" then there will inevitably be a conflict of interest between results and development, and results will win. If it's a wishy-washy aspiration it will soon be forgotten.
> 
> I think (but I'm not sure ... I think I read it on here) that *some of the European national lottery funded teams may have local development as a requirement of their funding*, formally defined.
> 
> Anyway, now he's at the UCI, not BC, is it really any of his business who Sky pick?


Who Sky contract is entirely up to them - they are a pro team and whatever anyone wants to think, don't have any connection with BC. The team are a business and have not really had the results that a top line sponsor might expect this season. Next move have a clear out, hire in other talent (both riders and sport direction), rebuild, and go after results. In a results driven business (which is what pro racing is) you need to justify the huge investment, or the money goes away. Quite a simple idea really, it's a hard old world. The lottery sponsorships must be producing extra sales (unless it's a state patronage) or they wouldn't be there. That said, I wonder what the British public's reaction would be to a British Lotto team which was a £10 million a year job, no doubt in my mind there would be some uproar which would only be silenced by results and a lot of TV coverage. Which would require more than a squad of young Brits.


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## lyn1 (28 Oct 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Who Sky contract is entirely up to them - they are a pro team and whatever anyone wants to think, don't have any connection with BC. The team are a business and have not really had the results that a top line sponsor might expect this season. Next move have a clear out, hire in other talent (both riders and sport direction), rebuild, and go after results. In a results driven business (which is what pro racing is) you need to justify the huge investment, or the money goes away. Quite a simple idea really, it's a hard old world. The lottery sponsorships must be producing extra sales (unless it's a state patronage) or they wouldn't be there. That said,* I wonder what the British public's reaction would be to a British Lotto team which was a £10 million a year job, no doubt in my mind there would be some uproar which would only be silenced by results and a lot of TV coverage. Which would require more than a squad of young Brits*.



The pro scene is very highly nationalistic and in that respect Sky are among a small number of exceptions. Many teams appear to support their own riders as development and bring in some hitters to provide the results
I do not think it's a given that a sponsor will receive more *positive* recognition from it's home public because it supports a winning team, than it would by supporting a somewhat less "successful" team with far more of it's own nationals.

as at start 2014 season
Bardiani 100% Italian
Columbia 100% Columbian
RusVelo 100% Russian
Topsport Vlanderen 100% Belgian
FDJ 90% French
Bretagne Seche 88% French
Drapac 88% Australian
CCC Polsat 84% Polish
Nerri Sottoli 81% Italian
Europcar 81% French
Caja Rural 75% Spanish
Androni 75% Italian
Wanty 74% Belgian
(Euskaltel 70% Spanish)
Cofidis 68% French
Belkin 66% Dutch
Lotto 63% Belgian
Movistar 63% Spanish
AG2R 63% French
Lampre 58% Italian
Katusha 57% Russian
Orica 54% Aus
Cannondale 54% Italian
(Vaconsoleil 52% Dutch)
United Healthcare 43% USA
OPQ 40% Belgian
MTN 40% African
IAM 38% Swiss
Astana 34% Kaz.
Sky 29% British (now less as JTL gone)
Garmin 28% USA
Tinkoff 26% Danish
Trek, BMC, NetApp-Endura* and NovoNordisk all less than 25%
(*although significant increase in German component with Bora for 2015


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## oldroadman (28 Oct 2014)

lyn1 said:


> The pro scene is very highly nationalistic and in that respect Sky are among a small number of exceptions. Many teams appear to support their own riders as development and bring in some hitters to provide the results
> I do not think it's a given that a sponsor will receive more *positive* recognition from it's home public because it supports a winning team, than it would by supporting a somewhat less "successful" team with far more of it's own nationals.
> 
> as at start 2014 season
> ...


Just did a bit of research - it appears that Sky is possibly supported not just by the UK, but links in with others in Europe (maybe Italy? Would explain a certain transfer in.) so it could be seen as international, although of course we want to think of it as a British team. With a "service courses" in Belgium!


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## Flying_Monkey (29 Oct 2014)

Can I just remind lyn1 again that 'Africa' is not a nation, it's an entire continent composed of many nations... it's the equivalent of 'Europe'.


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## lyn1 (29 Oct 2014)

Originally it said 40% South Africa, but I did not have time to check whether the original data was specific to the country so changed it to the Continent to be safe, as in the specific context ....teams supporting their nationals or riders from specific geographic locations (even Continents given my understanding of the MTN ethos)) it did not influence the argument. I had not forgotten your earlier point which I appreciate is important in certain contexts. On checking, it is approx. 40% South African and a higher proportion African.


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## resal (29 Oct 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Just did a bit of research - it appears that Sky is possibly supported not just by the UK, but links in with others in Europe (maybe Italy? Would explain a certain transfer in.) so it could be seen as international, although of course we want to think of it as a British team. With a "service courses" in Belgium!


Well done on that research - Sky is broadcast over Europe. This is a very valid point you make. So Sky is not a British team however us Brits would like to think it. 

But I am still a little confused, how did Cookson and Drake manage to convince the UK Sport audit team that it was ok for BC staff to continue to receive 100% of their salaries out of the public purse as well as a full salary from Sky, if Sky was not a British team and fully independent. I never could work that one out. 

Now just who was paying the auditors Deloitte for that independent investigation, into possible conflict of interest remind me again, ......

And there is was, Lehman Brothers had a fully independent audit from respected accountant practice Ernst and Young and they found ..........nothing...Everything in the banking world was great, stop worrying you sweet little heads and leave all this high finance to those who know and understand. There is nothing for you to be worried about .

Good job there was nothing improper about the relationship between Sky and BC. Deloitte took the cheque from UK Sport and told UK Sport exactly what UK Sport wanted to know. 

[I need to write a comment about "Great British Cycling " by Ellis Bacon. Don't buy it. It is the most infuriating book. It is the contemporary example of why the cycling media kept spouting pro Lance propaganda to the end, and how they have not learnt any lessons. I posted that last para up motivated by the way Bacon just spouted Sky/BC propaganda about that audit rather than give a single word to any counter perspective.]


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Oct 2014)

I was under the impression that Sky had stated that they had plans to employ the Yates brothers in the future but were letting them get international experience with other teams currently, because bringing them in to Team Sky now would see them getting less time in top flight racing. It's possible I'm misattributing a pundit quote though.


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## lyn1 (29 Oct 2014)

Bit arrogant and contradictory by Sky then? ......send them to a team that they consider to be below them and less results orientated, so they can be given more chances, yet are ranked above them:
1 1 MOVISTAR TEAM (MOV) ESP 1440
2 3 BMC RACING TEAM (BMC) USA 1212
3 2 TINKOFF-SAXO (TCS) RUS 1186
4 4 OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP CYCLING TEAM (OPQ) BEL 1016
*5 7 ORICA GREENEDGE (OGE) AUS 953*
6 5 TEAM KATUSHA (KAT) RUS 938
7 6 AG2R LA MONDIALE (ALM) FRA 919
8 9 TEAM GIANT-SHIMANO (GIA) NED 905
*9 8 TEAM SKY (SKY) GBR 890*


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Feb 2015)

According to the UCI website "The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) Management Committee today agreed a raft of important decisions which demonstrate the significant progress being achieved by the UCI in rebuilding trust, embracing innovation and building cycling globally."

I read it and thought "meh".

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-management-committee-agrees-important-changes-and-innovations/

I wonder if the June meeting will bring anything less meh.


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## oldroadman (2 Feb 2015)

Hmm, an under 23 women's world champs at CX, world cup CX in USA and Canada, and closing the GCP operation (was that not one of PMcQ's/HV's pet projects?). Noy spectacular, but interesting and in my view sensible moves. Mr C proceeding cautiously and surrounding himself with bright people (which I believe he did at BC with considerable success), and it's only just over a year in. As I've said before, clearing up the situation he found is a three year project at a minimum, and probably a two term (8 year) job. I'll form an opinion then, but it does look like some progress is being made. Not a job I would want!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Feb 2015)




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## StuAff (7 Feb 2015)

Marmion said:


>


http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/news/road/commentary-letter-uci-president_360251


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## rich p (8 Feb 2015)

What a crap letter.


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## oldroadman (12 Feb 2015)

rich p said:


> What a crap letter.


Not entirely, but mainly I agree. It's a long road Mr Cookson has to travel, and his predecessors have left plenty of potholes. We would all like everything fixed instantly, but he is going through processes to, I hope, get proper stability. Or would the letter writer like to go back to the previous presidency, where decisions just came out which appeared to be a dictatorial edict, rather than thought through properly and advice taken?


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2015)

I know this is being covered in several other threads but I wanted to add this from the perspective of Cookson's governance. We already know that no report along the lines of CIRC would have made it out under the two previous incumbents and Tygart sums it up nicely...
_
"We commend President Brian Cookson for his resolve and for promptly taking steps upon his election to secure the UCI’s servers and electronic data to preserve this important evidence of the UCI’s wrongdoing. We applaud President Cookson for publishing the CIRC Report uncensored," Tygart said. "As noted by the CIRC report, under President Cookson’s leadership the UCI is engaged in promising reforms of its anti-doping operations. We are encouraged by President Cookson’s commitment to strong partnerships with independent national anti-doping organisations whose only mission is to ensure a level playing field for all athletes."_


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## oldroadman (10 Mar 2015)

I saw a copy of the report earlier today, and one item that is given prominence is governance. The CIRC comment on how the UCI had become a dictatorship, evenyone excluded from influencing decisions, H&P just issued commands and that was that. Things seem to now be much changed and more open, so much the better. If Brian Cookson can just move UCI from their old ways of "this is what happens because the president says so" and to any question the answer is "we know best", then he will have done the sport a massive service. I met Hein once, he was handshaking all round, and after which I checked to see if my watch was still in place.


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## deptfordmarmoset (10 Mar 2015)

oldroadman said:


> I saw a copy of the report earlier today, and one item that is given prominence is governance. The CIRC comment on how the UCI had become a dictatorship, evenyone excluded from influencing decisions, H&P just issued commands and that was that. Things seem to now be much changed and more open, so much the better. If Brian Cookson can just move UCI from their old ways of "this is what happens because the president says so" and to any question the answer is "we know best", then he will have done the sport a massive service. I met Hein once, he was handshaking all round, and after which I checked to see if my watch was still in place.


I think he's already done cycling a great service, though doubtless Resal would disagree. Mind, just about anyone who moved the power away from H&P, as you call them, would have done cycling a service! He's fronted up the release of the CIRC report and been quite forthright about his early days near the inner circle, calling on H to relinquish his honorary role. At the time of his election I feared a backlash against the ''new boy'' but he seems to have got a wide enough level of support and consensus (or I haven't seen the murmuring leaking out into the press, at any rate) to move things forward. It's an odd stage the sport is at - having to live with the doping problem, while other sports are still somewhere between ''reputational damage'' and plain denial - and yet, acknowledging the problem is part of the cure. Or the first part of the cure at least.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Jun 2015)

I wasn't sure where to post this. This seems as good a thread as any. Ructions between the UCI and ASO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/us-cycling-tour-uci-idUSKBN0OZ1WW20150619

_Tour de France organizers ASO (Amaury Sport Organisation) have threatened to withdraw their races from the International Cycling Union calendar over a lack of progress in the UCI's reform program, Reuters has learned._


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## Berk on a Bike (19 Jun 2015)

On the upside for the UCI, they've acted swiftly to ban motor homes for riders at races... 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/06/news/no-motorhome-for-sky-as-uci-issues-new-rule_374618


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jun 2015)

Cookson and Astana on his watch. Forget about preserving files prior to his leadership.


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## HF2300 (20 Jun 2015)

Dogtrousers said:


> I wasn't sure where to post this. This seems as good a thread as any. Ructions between the UCI and ASO
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/us-cycling-tour-uci-idUSKBN0OZ1WW20150619
> 
> _Tour de France organizers ASO (Amaury Sport Organisation) have threatened to withdraw their races from the International Cycling Union calendar over a lack of progress in the UCI's reform program, Reuters has learned._




More on this & related matters from INRNG:

http://inrng.com/2015/06/world-tour-reforms/#more-25338


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Sep 2015)

The times they are a-changing (from 2017 and not including reduced GC lengths but including unknown anti-doping rules)
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/uci-approves-reforms-for-mens-pro-cycling_385697


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Sep 2015)

Also, he got elected while wearing a beard when beards were hardly acceptable. Now everyone's got one. Draw your own conclusions.....


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## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Sep 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Also, he got elected while wearing a beard when beards were hardly acceptable. Now everyone's got one. Draw your own conclusions.....


I had a beard before he got elected. I had one before Brad too.

I shaved it off today. For the umpteenth time, so will probably grow it back again since I'm a lazy nobber


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> I had a beard before he got elected. I had one before Brad too.
> 
> I shaved it off today. For the umpteenth time, so will probably grow it back again since I'm a lazy nobber


Let's hope previous UCI pressies weren't also copying you....


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## Crackle (22 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> The times they are a-changing (from 2017 and not including reduced GC lengths but including unknown anti-doping rules)
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/uci-approves-reforms-for-mens-pro-cycling_385697


Progress of a sorts but no real attempt to sort out the calendar as is. In fact it looks set to become more complicated. Also no mention of the alternative funding revenues teams wanted. With the exception of the new anti-doping compliance, it seems like a rather large fudge with added gloss.


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Sep 2015)

Crackle said:


> Progress of a sorts but no real attempt to sort out the calendar as is. In fact it looks set to become more complicated. Also no mention of the alternative funding revenues teams wanted. With the exception of the new anti-doping compliance, it seems like a rather large fudge with added gloss.


I think that the UCI will have had to negotiate with a good deal of vested interests here and the present result is not the desired end result. It should probably be seen as a single step on a long journey or, as the phrase goes, a marginal gain....


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## HF2300 (23 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> The times they are a-changing (from 2017 and not including reduced GC lengths but including unknown anti-doping rules)
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/uci-approves-reforms-for-mens-pro-cycling_385697



And again commentary from INRNG:

http://inrng.com/2015/09/uci-reforms-approved/#more-26502


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Dec 2015)

An agreement with Verbruggen? Jeezo. Here endeth Cookson as a credible agent for change.
http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...o-end-legal-proceedings-following-circ-report


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## ColinJ (21 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> An agreement with Verbruggen? Jeezo. Here endeth Cookson as a credible agent for change.
> http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...o-end-legal-proceedings-following-circ-report


Not good, is it, especially since it sounds like he has agreed to a gagging order which will stop him explaining why he agreed to it!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> An agreement with Verbruggen? Jeezo. Here endeth Cookson as a credible agent for change.
> http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...o-end-legal-proceedings-following-circ-report





ColinJ said:


> Not good, is it, especially since it sounds like he has agreed to a gagging order which will stop him explaining why he agreed to it!



Hold on....
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/12/v...ettlement-but-cookson-says-agreement-is-null/

So is Cookson saying there was an agreement but since Hein did not keep his part of it then Cookson has decided that it's a null contract? Even bigger Jeezo.


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## ColinJ (21 Dec 2015)

You couldn't make it up ...

Well, actually you _could_ but nobody would believe you!


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## Crackle (21 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> Hold on....
> http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/12/v...ettlement-but-cookson-says-agreement-is-null/
> 
> So is Cookson saying there was an agreement but since Hein did not keep his part of it then Cookson has decided that it's a null contract? Even bigger Jeezo.


Might have to actually read Mad Hein's website.


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## Bollo (21 Dec 2015)

Marmion said:


> Hold on....
> http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/12/v...ettlement-but-cookson-says-agreement-is-null/
> 
> So is Cookson saying there was an agreement but since Hein did not keep his part of it then Cookson has decided that it's a null contract? Even bigger Jeezo.


29 large! Blatter wouldn't wipe his bum with that amount. Hein is so low-rent.


Crackle said:


> Might have to actually read Mad Hein's website.


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## resal (22 Dec 2015)

Sepp was unshaven and very shaky last night as the lead story on BBC news. Why would anyone want to get near him in the last few years ? The governance of FIFA has been rotten beyond recovery with Sepp at the helm for over a decade. 

"I will make the UCI more transparent and open in the way it conducts business, and I will lead by example. Anyone that has worked with me knows my collegiate and open approach and it is this style of governance and decision making that I want to embed in the UCI. " Brian Cookson Manifesto on openness and transparency. 

That statement from Brian yesterday was a bit of a revelation - a double whammy for Brian and he has been taking a good bit of stick for it on twitter. Shocking quality of judgement going for a secret meeting with the IOC and Hein.
Then agreeing a pact of silence over having to pay Hein £40k. That interview in the Aussie magazine where he just dodges the questions that are asked quite directly and openly, is appalling. Exactly what we would expect every UCI President to behave like, Hein, Pat Brain - all the same. No sign of openness and transparency there !

And what did Brian have to say on governance ?
"I also believe it is critical that there is a clear separation between governance and management at the UCI. I will not be a de facto Chief Executive Officer as has been the case under previous Presidents. Under my presidency, the Management Committee will operate like a modern Board of Directors, setting overall strategy for the UCI, with the senior UCI management team tasked with implementing that strategy"
So who agreed the £40k payment to Hein ? According to Brian in the manifesto that Brian set up, Brian would not have the authority to execute the decision, that responsibility lies with Gibb ! - What went on - the Chief Exec was there under the table and tapped Brian on the shoe ? Is that how it worked ? Brian took him in and out of the meeting in a suitcase ?

"I believe that in my in career in cycling I have personally demonstrated the leadership qualities to do just that. Restoring trust and leading change are the first steps to take."
Nope - I am not buying that.
Only an imbecile would have his photo taken with Sepp. Lack of leadership. Error of judgement.
Only an imbecile would agree to a secret meeting with Hein and the IOC and then agree to a gagging clause on the outcome. Lack of leadership. Error of judgement. What the heck has it got to do with the IOC anyway. Shape up Brian stand up straight, get that backbone in a line. Call Hein in for a meeting with whoever he wants and tell him "no".

And then why would the president trash his totally correct management model and act as de-facto CEO and agree to give the membership's money to Hein in a disgusting, dirty, little deal ? Do you remember Pat was an IOC member and part of the deal was that as he lost the UCI presidency, the IOC also withdrew his membership. Brian will be wanting the same little perks - an IOC member. He can't get that unless he plays the dodgy, dirty little IOC games. What are a few manifesto pledges when an IOC membership is at stake ?

Two years in and Marmion I am completely with your verdict. Cookson is not the agent for change we needed.


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## oldroadman (24 Dec 2015)

In amongst all this "Cookson is not the right person" stuff, who does anyone suggest would do a better job? He may have made some mistakes, but I am mindful of the old adage that a man who never made a mistake never tried to do anything. The picture above says a lot more about Blatter looking for a cheap publicity shot - he's just presenting a pennant to another international body president - than Brian Cookson's probity. It may have been a mistake, but see second sentence. Everyone seemed to be pleased to see the end of the HV/PM era, now they turn on the bloke who is trying to sort it all out. How short memories are. The Americans are even worse than the Brits at this, something I would not have thought possible!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Dec 2015)

oldroadman said:


> ...who does anyone suggest would do a better job?



The absence of someone who would be "better" does not mean that Cookson is the right person for the job. A bit like asking "who would be better than Blatter?...Platini perhaps?"


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## Crackle (24 Dec 2015)

Cookson has hit back today and raised an interesting point about race length below World Tour level

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cookson-aso-cant-pick-and-choose-which-rules-apply-to-them/

Personally I'd back him against ASO and Hein. Rumours that ASO are planning on burning tyres in the routes are unfounded.


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## Crackle (24 Dec 2015)

Though I just read the rule only applies to one day races.


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## Bollo (25 Dec 2015)

Crackle said:


> Cookson has hit back today and raised an interesting point about race length below World Tour level
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cookson-aso-cant-pick-and-choose-which-rules-apply-to-them/
> 
> Personally I'd back him against ASO and Hein. Rumours that ASO are planning on burning tyres in the routes are unfounded.


Whether the rule applies or not, it's all a bit petty and isn't going to move the argument forward much. A bit like getting Al Capone for tax evasion, or Riccardo Riccò for trying to buy 32 paracetamol at a supermarket.


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## oldroadman (25 Dec 2015)

Crackle said:


> Though I just read the rule only applies to one day races.


If I remember correctly, on stage races there is a rule about average daily distance. So it may be that a stage can be 220km, then a short time trial of say 35km would drop that average back again, and so on. This could account for some of the shorter (but very hard) stages in multi-day races. They are certainly better for being shorter and sharper in the last few years.


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## Crackle (2 Mar 2016)

So with the recent announcement of high demand for World Tour races, the pressure ramps up a little between ASO and the UCI, added to by the recent Velon deal which is stepping on ASO's toes more and muscling in between ASO and UCI. Cookson has previously said that there just hasn't been time to sit down with ASO but in reality is this just a case of who blinks first?

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/03/uci-hails-high-demand-from-organisers-for-future-worldtour-licences/
http://inrng.com/2016/02/velon-news/


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

This thread is long due an upate. i had been waiting to see how the fallout with ASO was going to pan out but that's still thrashing about. In the meantime Cookson talks about Womens cycling and the changes made

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...cling-a-q-and-a-interview-with-brian-cookson/

For definite I think there's been some positive developments last year and this. Definitely more exposure which can only be good but less progress on variety and style of racing. For instance La Course could be longer and whilst shown live didn't get much in the way of highlight coverage or analysis.


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## oldroadman (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> This thread is long due an upate. i had been waiting to see how the fallout with ASO was going to pan out but that's still thrashing about. In the meantime Cookson talks about Womens cycling and the changes made
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...cling-a-q-and-a-interview-with-brian-cookson/
> 
> For definite I think there's been some positive developments last year and this. Definitely more exposure which can only be good but less progress on variety and style of racing. For instance La Course could be longer and whilst shown live didn't get much in the way of highlight coverage or analysis.


Agree that it could be longer, although 80km in two hours round the Champs Elysee circuit is enough for anyone. Crashes late on showed the level of fatigue, I think, and did spoil the final a bit. The TV commentary could be better too, amazing how many times a certain lady on mic managed to mention Wiggle. You would think she was something to do with them.....


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Agree that it could be longer, although 80km in two hours round the Champs Elysee circuit is enough for anyone


Yes sorry I meant the circuit rather than the length, bring it in from the outskirts, using the same route as the men but starting earlier so there's no extra organisation.


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## psmiffy (26 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> In the meantime Cookson talks about Womens cycling and the changes made
> 
> For definite I think there's been some positive developments last year and this. Definitely more exposure which can only be good but less progress on variety and style of racing. For instance La Course could be longer and whilst shown live didn't get much in the way of highlight coverage or analysis.



I agree - it is pathetic - However, whilst I follow both the mens and womens tours - (Im not an aficionado - I have to look at the start lists before I remember who is who) - primarily to see how the brits are getting on and a few selected others - I do not, watch the TV coverage much - for most of the time it is duller than watching Chris Tavere bat (google him) - The womens tour more so - I been at the roadside for a couple of pro tour events (more by accident than design) and it was even duller than watching it on TV - If womens cycling is going to get a lift off it has to be done by themselves - personalities people can link to, it is not just about the cycling - obviously the governing body can do a lot - but they are practically invisible themselves - as an example of the interest in womens cycling was the thread on here - I went to watch the start of the final stage of this years womens tour - nowt was posted after my post.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2016)

Perhaps we expected too much, perhaps it is happening behind the scenes, perhaps it's too much to expect one man to change; perhaps the magnitude of the task is lost on us all? Bit maybe, just maybe, he is changing it.


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## oldroadman (27 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Yes sorry I meant the circuit rather than the length, bring it in from the outskirts, using the same route as the men but starting earlier so there's no extra organisation.


That would be a question that ASO would have to answer, but when you have their power, it seems most things are possible - somewhere about 120km would be good, with the last 60 or so on the Champs.


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## Crackle (27 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> personalities people can link to, it is not just about the cycling


There are a few personalties emerging but you have to follow them online, instagram, twitter etc... Emerging into mainstream news and current affairs is not even something many of the men have done, so it's still a big ask.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Jul 2016)

It appears that Team Bahrain might be happening after all. Is this something the UCI should be sanctioning?


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## Hill Wimp (31 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> I agree - it is pathetic - However, whilst I follow both the mens and womens tours - (Im not an aficionado - I have to look at the start lists before I remember who is who) - primarily to see how the brits are getting on and a few selected others - I do not, watch the TV coverage much - for most of the time it is duller than watching Chris Tavere bat (google him) - *The womens tour more so - I been at the roadside for a couple of pro tour events (more by accident than design) and it was even duller than watching it on TV - If womens cycling is going to get a lift off it has to be done by themselves - personalities people can link to, it is not just about the cycling - obviously the governing body can do a lot - but they are practically invisible themselves *- as an example of the interest in womens cycling was the thread on here - I went to watch the start of the final stage of this years womens tour - nowt was posted after my post.


For what it's worth and from a womans perspective ^^ i totally agree.

I have worked in a tough male dominated environment for over 25 years so i support wholeheartedly women moving on through and up BUT and it's a big and controversial one, NOT just because they are women. They have to have worked for and earnt it. Being given something just because you are this or that and not because you have earnt it causes friction and resentment that lasts decades.

Time and time again i will turn on the TV to watch womens cycling because i want to support it but as @psmiffy says, its so dull. I never watch a whole race. I have very little idea of who is who anymore because the media coverage is so rubbish as is the commentary. 

After London 2012 we had TROTT, KING and ROWSELL quite rightly plastered everywhere. They were celebrated because they had earnt it, the same with Lizzie Armisted because of what she has achieved. Now i hardly hear anything about them or about any of our other girls. They need to build their serious media personalities not just where they went to school etc. Rio is coming up so lets hope the wave continues longer than 12mths for the girls taking part for GB and they themselves or their media agents and teams shove them in our faces for a long time after. Building the personalities and stories behind these women will build the interest in the public which in turn should force the media to shape up.


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## psmiffy (31 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> It appears that Team Bahrain might be happening after all. Is this something the UCI should be sanctioning?



UCI sanctions Astana and races in Qatar and Oman so why not?


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## smutchin (31 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Perhaps we expected too much, perhaps it is happening behind the scenes, perhaps it's too much to expect one man to change; perhaps the magnitude of the task is lost on us all? Bit maybe, just maybe, he is changing it.



The honeymoon period is over. It won't be long now before he starts an illegal war with Iraq.


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## Crackle (31 Jul 2016)

Or Bahrain.


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## smutchin (2 Aug 2016)

"I’m sorry, I’ve just realised I have some muffin crumbs on my table. Very unprofessional. I am trying to lose a couple of kilos and was planning to have a fruit lunch but I failed and had a muffin. Never mind."

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/149/brian-cooksons-plans-to-revamp-cycling


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Oct 2016)

L'Equipe is reporting that David Lappartient plans to run for UCI President in 2017.

Lappertient is president of the French Cycling Federation, European Cycling Union and the Professional Cycling Council, and a vice-president of the UCI.


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## Crackle (7 Oct 2016)

Marmion said:


> L'Equipe is reporting that David Lappartient plans to run for UCI President in 2017.
> 
> Lappertient is president of the French Cycling Federation, European Cycling Union and the Professional Cycling Council, and a vice-president of the UCI.


No surprise there. I think Cookson faces an uphill battle on this and I imagine ASO are going to have a strong influence on the final chosen candidate. I won't mention stalking horses.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Oct 2016)

Crackle said:


> No surprise there. I think Cookson faces an uphill battle on this and I imagine ASO are going to have a strong influence on the final chosen candidate. I won't mention stalking horses.


Here's a horse in stockings instead


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## Strathlubnaig (7 Oct 2016)

Cookson's complete lack of comment or even being seen since the Wiggins/SKY debacle speak volumes. He lacks leadership and needs to go.


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## dellzeqq (12 Oct 2016)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ng-brian-cookson-uci-bradley-wiggins-team-sky 

clearly the Graun has been following this thread!


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## oldroadman (12 Oct 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Cookson's complete lack of comment or even being seen since the Wiggins/SKY debacle speak volumes. He lacks leadership and needs to go.


Interest connect between not flapping mouth when facts are not clear and failure of leadership. Instant judgment, always a helpful trait.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Oct 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Interest connect between not flapping mouth when facts are not clear and failure of leadership. Instant judgment, always a helpful trait.


I think the facts are clear; or do you think otherwise?
Cookson certainly thinks they are clear as per my post linking to his comment in the TUE thread.

edit
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-...n-to-follow-in-wiggins-tue-case-says-cookson/


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## Dogtrousers (23 Dec 2016)

2016 has been a year of real progress.
http://www.uci.ch/news/article/brian-cookson-206-year-real-progress/

It've not read it yet. It doesn't appear to be exactly gripping.


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## oldroadman (27 Dec 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> 2016 has been a year of real progress.
> http://www.uci.ch/news/article/brian-cookson-206-year-real-progress/
> 
> It've not read it yet. It doesn't appear to be exactly gripping.


How would you know without reading it.....?


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## Dogtrousers (27 Dec 2016)

oldroadman said:


> How would you know without reading it.....?


What an odd question. I skimmed through it of course. 

Maybe I'll give it a proper read sometime.


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## oldroadman (28 Dec 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> What an odd question. I skimmed through it of course.
> 
> Maybe I'll give it a proper read sometime.


It's not odd at all. In business (you know, life after the peloton) one thing that has to happen is reading more than just a summary before commenting. The devil is always in the detail. Which is why I now have a habit of actually reading reports properly so any comment which may be asked for is made from a position of detailed knowledge.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Dec 2016)

oldroadman said:


> It's not odd at all. In business (you know, life after the peloton) one thing that has to happen is reading more than just a summary before commenting. The devil is always in the detail. Which is why I now have a habit of actually reading reports properly so any comment which may be asked for is made from a position of detailed knowledge.


In which case, thank me for making it available to you.


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## User169 (14 Jun 2017)

Wasn't sure where to put this, but Hein Verbrugge has died.

He is described in the headline as "a cunning visionary with a dictatorial streak"

http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/bij-...e-visionair-met-dictatoriale-trekjes~a677169/


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> L'Equipe is reporting that David Lappartient plans to run for UCI President in 2017.
> 
> Lappertient is president of the French Cycling Federation, European Cycling Union and the Professional Cycling Council, and a vice-president of the UCI.


The BBC now reporting it; only 8 months after l'Equipe...


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## Crackle (20 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> The BBC now reporting it; only 8 months after l'Equipe...


He's ASO's man isn't he. Practising his catty'ness, Cookson said
_
"I note that so far David Lappartient has not set out very much detail in his plan or any vision he may have beyond his well known personal ambition for the role. I look forward to debating what matters for the future of cycling over the coming months."
_
Miaoow!

Still, BC should throw a bit more money at Cookson's election.

Incidentally, anyone know what Cookson's vision for the sport is?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jun 2017)

Crackle said:


> Miaoow!
> 
> Incidentally, anyone know what Cookson's vision for the sport is?


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## brommers (20 Jun 2017)

I thought she was an author that died some time ago.


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## rich p (21 Jun 2017)

Getting attacked by these two self-gratification artists must feel like a vote of confidence to Cookson

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-and-bruyneel-take-to-twitter-to-criticise-brian-cookson/


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## Adam4868 (21 Jun 2017)

Feck....not another election !


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## Toshiba Boy (26 Jun 2017)

Than


Adam4868 said:


> Feck....not another election !


Thank you Brenda from Bristol.


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